123892-the-game-is-totally-unpopulated

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I bought this game like a year after the open beta and i thought the target system  and the graphics is very good and i liked it.
I played at whole summer with this game and leveled up 3 character with BG and adventures.... Yea, there was low lvl BG and adventure too. I liked it very much.
I left the game and today come back to give a chance because all other game has very childish target system.......
Now with a max lvl character i try to play random BG but the group finder doesnt find enought players for it....for an 10v10 bg. I'm waiting now 15 mins.
I tried the random shiphands, its like an shorter dungeon. But doesnt find any mates for it and it need only 3 member if im remember correctly.
I dont know,who say the population is growing and good.....its not true. It's very bad!
At last summer after a bg i played another bg....whitout any wait time,well its not true sometimes i had to wait like 1- 1.5 min.
I hope carbine will do something because its a big joke, nobody will play a game where he have to wait 15+ mins and much more.
I joined to the global channel where should be a lot players who makes groups etc....i see sometimes  any writes at this channel.
I ask the community dont lie to the ppl about the population, i know if a lot new player buy the game and play the population will grow, but better way if the company make any changes for it.
I think the game need a lot new things.... more spells on the characters because i dont see a lot good, everybody use the same spells and the same amp-s. Every character is the same, yea they are looking different, but they are same. PLS remove the subscription!
I know, i wont subscript again, it's not worth it. When i have time to play, i want to play and not wait 15+ and more mins in the queue and i think not only i wont wait others too, that's why a lot ppl left this game.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I bought this game like a year after the open beta and i thought the target system  and the graphics is very good and i liked it.
I played at whole summer with this game and leveled up 3 character with BG and adventures.... Yea, there was low lvl BG and adventure too. I liked it very much.
I left the game and today come back to give a chance because all other game has very childish target system.......
Now with a max lvl character i try to play random BG but the group finder doesnt find enought players for it....for an 10v10 bg. I'm waiting now 15 mins.
I tried the random shiphands, its like an shorter dungeon. But doesnt find any mates for it and it need only 3 member if im remember correctly.
I dont know,who say the population is growing and good.....its not true. It's very bad!
At last summer after a bg i played another bg....whitout any wait time,well its not true sometimes i had to wait like 1- 1.5 min.
I hope carbine will do something because its a big joke, nobody will play a game where he have to wait 15+ mins and much more.
I joined to the global channel where should be a lot players who makes groups etc....i see sometimes  any writes at this channel.
I ask the community dont lie to the ppl about the population, i know if a lot new player buy the game and play the population will grow, but better way if the company make any changes for it.
I think the game need a lot new things.... more spells on the characters because i dont see a lot good, everybody use the same spells and the same amp-s. Every character is the same, yea they are looking different, but they are same. PLS remove the subscription!
I know, i wont subscript again, it's not worth it. When i have time to play, i want to play and not wait 15+ and more mins in the queue and i think not only i wont wait others too, that's why a lot ppl left this game.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I bought this game like a year after the open beta and i thought the target system  and the graphics is very good and i liked it.
I played at whole summer with this game and leveled up 3 character with BG and adventures.... Yea, there was low lvl BG and adventure too. I liked it very much.
I left the game and today come back to give a chance because all other game has very childish target system.......
Now with a max lvl character i try to play random BG but the group finder doesnt find enought players for it....for an 10v10 bg. I'm waiting now 15 mins.
I tried the random shiphands, its like an shorter dungeon. But doesnt find any mates for it and it need only 3 member if im remember correctly.
I dont know,who say the population is growing and good.....its not true. It's very bad!
At last summer after a bg i played another bg....whitout any wait time,well its not true sometimes i had to wait like 1- 1.5 min.
I hope carbine will do something because its a big joke, nobody will play a game where he have to wait 15+ mins and much more.
I joined to the global channel where should be a lot players who makes groups etc....i see sometimes  any writes at this channel.
I ask the community dont lie to the ppl about the population, i know if a lot new player buy the game and play the population will grow, but better way if the company make any changes for it.
I think the game need a lot new things.... more spells on the characters because i dont see a lot good, everybody use the same spells and the same amp-s. Every character is the same, yea they are looking different, but they are same. PLS remove the subscription!
I know, i wont subscript again, it's not worth it. When i have time to play, i want to play and not wait 15+ and more mins in the queue and i think not only i wont wait others too, that's why a lot ppl left this game.
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Yeah, I'm not sure why people think any queue is a direct relation to population.
 
I don't queue, so I don't exist?	
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Yeah, I'm not sure why people think any queue is a direct relation to population.
 
I don't queue, so I don't exist?
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because at endgame, wildstar is a lot about queues; pvp and vet dungeons.
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because at endgame, wildstar is a lot about queues; pvp and vet dungeons.
wildstar at endgame becomes an instanced/hub game. everybody in thayd waiting for the next activity to start.
not many people "go back in the world" (daily zones i suppose...).
 
so its all about chilling in thayd and waiting for a group event to pop (dungeon, pvp, your raid time) or go to your house and play lego (which is fine too!).
 
but without good solid queue pops. wildstar have no endgame for many styles of players.
 
currently, its almost like the community have to agree on "ok tonight we are doing Bgs, or warplots, or dungeons, or world boss or 3v3 like yesterday" and you have to follow the train otherwise it is dead. it SCREAMS lack of players.
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because at endgame, wildstar is a lot about queues; pvp and vet dungeons.
wildstar at endgame becomes an instanced/hub game. everybody in thayd waiting for the next activity to start.
not many people "go back in the world" (daily zones i suppose...).
 
so its all about chilling in thayd and waiting for a group event to pop (dungeon, pvp, your raid time) or go to your house and play lego (which is fine too!).
 
but without good solid queue pops. wildstar have no endgame for many styles of players.
 
currently, its almost like the community have to agree on "ok tonight we are doing Bgs, or warplots, or dungeons, or world boss or 3v3 like yesterday" and you have to follow the train otherwise it is dead. it SCREAMS lack of players.
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Now with a max lvl character i try to play random BG but the group finder doesnt find enought players for it....for an 10v10 bg. I'm waiting now 15 mins.
I tried the random shiphands, its like an shorter dungeon. But doesnt find any mates for it and it need only 3 member if im remember correctly.
I dont know,who say the population is growing and good.....its not true. It's very bad!
----
			
I tried it 20 minutes before. I deleted the game already. I finished an veteran shipment and after i had to wait again......
Yea maybe at evening there are more players but i wanted to play now, not evening....and i was on PVE server on Jabbit. So yea, when somebody want to play, he jsut want to play and not find another ways to play. Yes if i looking for an guild and active members at forums and internet probably i will have mates.....
But i just wanted to log in and play a BG etc. what i can't and it is sad,	
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I tried it 20 minutes before. I deleted the game already. I finished an veteran shipment and after i had to wait again......
Yea maybe at evening there are more players but i wanted to play now, not evening....and i was on PVE server on Jabbit. So yea, when somebody want to play, he jsut want to play and not find another ways to play. Yes if i looking for an guild and active members at forums and internet probably i will have mates.....
But i just wanted to log in and play a BG etc. what i can't and it is sad,
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I tried it 20 minutes before. I deleted the game already. I finished an veteran shipment and after i had to wait again......
Yea maybe at evening there are more players but i wanted to play now, not evening....and i was on PVE server on Jabbit. So yea, when somebody want to play, he jsut want to play and not find another ways to play. Yes if i looking for an guild and active members at forums and internet probably i will have mates.....
But i just wanted to log in and play a BG etc. what i can't and it is sad,
----
			
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I do endgame stuff all the time.  I do it with the guild.  I don't queue because my experiences with queues have not been good.  I don't PVP either.
 
According to you, I don't exist.  You've completely discounted that I don't want to play with the people in the queue and that, with the exception of SlyJeff, nobody has given me any reason to WANT to queue.  I never hear anyone else that sounds like someone I want to play a dungeon through with.  Why would I?
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I tried it 20 minutes before. I deleted the game already. I finished an veteran shipment and after i had to wait again......
Yea maybe at evening there are more players but i wanted to play now, not evening....and i was on PVE server on Jabbit. So yea, when somebody want to play, he jsut want to play and not find another ways to play. Yes if i looking for an guild and active members at forums and internet probably i will have mates.....
But i just wanted to log in and play a BG etc. what i can't and it is sad,
----
			
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minus SSM norm...no one wants to do that
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I tried it 20 minutes before. I deleted the game already. I finished an veteran shipment and after i had to wait again......
Yea maybe at evening there are more players but i wanted to play now, not evening....and i was on PVE server on Jabbit. So yea, when somebody want to play, he jsut want to play and not find another ways to play. Yes if i looking for an guild and active members at forums and internet probably i will have mates.....
But i just wanted to log in and play a BG etc. what i can't and it is sad,
----
			
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i understand you.
 
you are exactly the type of players i am trying my hardest to bring back in game.
 
at the moment we have mostly tight knit rp communities and raiders. casuals are mostly all gone as nothing ever happens for them.
that will eventually change with a business model change. so we will see you then i hope :D
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but it is to partake in the Massively Multiplayer part of the game. and that is; doing content with pugs.
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I bought this game like a year after the open beta and i thought the target system  and the graphics is very good and i liked it.
I played at whole summer with this game and leveled up 3 character with BG and adventures.... Yea, there was low lvl BG and adventure too. I liked it very much.
I left the game and today come back to give a chance because all other game has very childish target system.......
Now with a max lvl character i try to play random BG but the group finder doesnt find enought players for it....for an 10v10 bg. I'm waiting now 15 mins.
I tried the random shiphands, its like an shorter dungeon. But doesnt find any mates for it and it need only 3 member if im remember correctly.
I dont know,who say the population is growing and good.....its not true. It's very bad!
At last summer after a bg i played another bg....whitout any wait time,well its not true sometimes i had to wait like 1- 1.5 min.
I hope carbine will do something because its a big joke, nobody will play a game where he have to wait 15+ mins and much more.
I joined to the global channel where should be a lot players who makes groups etc....i see sometimes  any writes at this channel.
I ask the community dont lie to the ppl about the population, i know if a lot new player buy the game and play the population will grow, but better way if the company make any changes for it.
I think the game need a lot new things.... more spells on the characters because i dont see a lot good, everybody use the same spells and the same amp-s. Every character is the same, yea they are looking different, but they are same. PLS remove the subscription!
I know, i wont subscript again, it's not worth it. When i have time to play, i want to play and not wait 15+ and more mins in the queue and i think not only i wont wait others too, that's why a lot ppl left this game.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
i understand you.
 
you are exactly the type of players i am trying my hardest to bring back in game.
 
at the moment we have mostly tight knit rp communities and raiders. casuals are mostly all gone as nothing ever happens for them.
that will eventually change with a business model change. so we will see you then i hope :D
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I tried it 20 minutes before. I deleted the game already. I finished an veteran shipment and after i had to wait again......
Yea maybe at evening there are more players but i wanted to play now, not evening....and i was on PVE server on Jabbit. So yea, when somebody want to play, he jsut want to play and not find another ways to play. Yes if i looking for an guild and active members at forums and internet probably i will have mates.....
But i just wanted to log in and play a BG etc. what i can't and it is sad,
----
			
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S/he already deleted the game. So we don't need to explain anything.
 
Sad as it is to see them go, I'm rather tired of these threads. If you have already left then adios amigos. If they are looking for a reason to stay, that's different.
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yeah...
 
you guys can clearly hide you head in the sand or in the cloud...
 
but these threads are being made e-v-e-r-y d-a-y. (and we're talking about the official forums that requires a sub for you to post on. can you imagine the rest of the internet?)
 
you are tired ? but too stuck in your ways to change anything ?
well, these will happen until the game is totally forgotten (and you DONT want that to happen).
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What are you even talking about?
I follow reddit, tumblr, twitter and these forums as well as many others.
The only doomsaying I see is from the same sources over and over again.
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yeah...
 
you guys can clearly hide you head in the sand or in the cloud...
 
but these threads are being made e-v-e-r-y d-a-y. (and we're talking about the official forums that requires a sub for you to post on. can you imagine the rest of the internet?)
 
you are tired ? but too stuck in your ways to change anything ?
well, these will happen until the game is totally forgotten (and you DONT want that to happen).
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as far as i know this Obvio guy is a new source.
 
*put his chin up like a snob mordesh and gives a slight dismissive look at the rodent.
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			I do admit that que times are ridiculous, especially at lower levels, but there are people that are trying to que up for things.  I happen to be one of these people that likes variety at lower levels.  I also seem to have a crippling fear of asking in channels to start groups so I like to basically join a que and go about doing what I like.  Sometimes it pops, sometimes it doesn't.  Still don't think that's a reason to quit the game, but everyone has their trigger switches I guess.	
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I do admit that que times are ridiculous, especially at lower levels, but there are people that are trying to que up for things.  I happen to be one of these people that likes variety at lower levels.  I also seem to have a crippling fear of asking in channels to start groups so I like to basically join a que and go about doing what I like.  Sometimes it pops, sometimes it doesn't.  Still don't think that's a reason to quit the game, but everyone has their trigger switches I guess.
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yeah...
 
you guys can clearly hide you head in the sand or in the cloud...
 
but these threads are being made e-v-e-r-y d-a-y. (and we're talking about the official forums that requires a sub for you to post on. can you imagine the rest of the internet?)
 
you are tired ? but too stuck in your ways to change anything ?
well, these will happen until the game is totally forgotten (and you DONT want that to happen).
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What do you fear then?
Our groups and communities don't buy and are usually happy to jump on a group to run something when asked.
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I do admit that que times are ridiculous, especially at lower levels, but there are people that are trying to que up for things.  I happen to be one of these people that likes variety at lower levels.  I also seem to have a crippling fear of asking in channels to start groups so I like to basically join a que and go about doing what I like.  Sometimes it pops, sometimes it doesn't.  Still don't think that's a reason to quit the game, but everyone has their trigger switches I guess.
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Well, that didn't take long for an Avatar111 derailment.
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Thus the word seems, yeah the community is helpful but i tend to be an introvert.  Took nine months of lurking on the forums before I started posting.
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I feel your pain, as a mild introvert. I struggle with the same thing until I "break the ice". It was hard for me to queue for vet dungeons the first time, much less talk in "lfg". And I'm only a mild introvert. Usually once I've done it once, I get comfortable. I do well getting groups in both places now :)
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thats the thing about "mmos".
everybody is soooo different!
 
the game needs to be as inclusive as possible.
from the business model to the playstyles.
were talking about a focus group designed commercial type of game here... not some obscure niche game.
 
at the moment. wildstar is exclusive. because of its sub, because of its linearity and because of its treadmill gear progression. the players are being bottlenecked.
lets see how they can make it breath a bit...
i'd be surprise if they ever could revitalize these lame vet adventures that nobody plays (dailies help i suppose but clearly not enough).
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You know something? Well, no you don't!
 
If all MMOs were all the same and catered to every different type of person in the world, it would be really really boring. Why would I want to play a 'new' game if it's exactly like the one I am playing now? Does not make sense to me.
 
As for "these lame vet adventures that nobody plays", you really need to come down off your high horse and see the facts! I know a lot of people who do the vet adventures, hell my guild runs them when there is interest. So saying 'nobody plays' them is in fact not true.
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Well than you should have said that in the first post.
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no pugs run them...
queue up for it and wait for it to happen. you'll start to get dry down there...
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I hope carbine will do something because its a big joke, nobody will play a game where he have to wait 15+ mins and much more.
 
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lol, my fear is being judged as a noob, coming from other mmo's that shall not be named here, it kind of jaded me and made me want to remain somewhat anonymous.  No one else's problem I understand, just the way I am. 
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			Came back after a long time away to see whats changed...waited in queue for a vet dungeons for 40 minutes before giving up/	
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Came back after a long time away to see whats changed...waited in queue for a vet dungeons for 40 minutes before giving up/
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thats what the whole thread is about. queue times.
im not trying to be your "enemy" here... really! i might sound like a derailed train or whatever to some of you guys. but I'm actually a very lucid person that understand sacrifices will need to be made for the best of the game.
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Was this on low level or veteran dungeons?
Because low level dungeon queue's are indeed horrible at the moment. Most of them skip them till level 50.
If this was a veteran, can you tell me the time and server this was on?
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no pugs run them...
queue up for it and wait for it to happen. you'll start to get dry down there...
 
i know your small community is doing thing and all is super cool etc. and its perfectly fine!
but you guys are like.. a handful.
 
the huge majority of mmo players are random dudes that just want instant action when they click "go".
they play a bit, log out and thats it.
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primetime on entity, exile, last friday evening there was no vet dungeon pops. i waited more than 15mins as a dps for random queue until i started to ask in chat and finally got a group after begging.
 
then i queued up for War of the Wild to finish up my weekly (the dungeon was Vet SSM so almost all weekly done in one shot).
but the estimated time was "unknown".
 
it was like 8h30 9h friday evening in the most populated server/faction.
 
ouch.
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{| class="blockquote"
Was this on low level or veteran dungeons?
Because low level dungeon queue's are indeed horrible at the moment. Most of them skip them till level 50.
If this was a veteran, can you tell me the time and server this was on?
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Well, see, that's a problem, because we are seeing you as the "queue" guy.  Think about that a second.  What do most people think of then they think of the queues?  They don't think of guys like Slyjeff who tell people to come in because the water is fine.  They see what you've been presenting, which is a big flashing sign to not bother.  Find a guild or run with friends.
 
And a huge majority of us do.  I think I've queued twice to get someone since I started playing.  It's not because I don't play a lot (I do) I don't instance (I do) I'm not 50 (I am a few times over) or I'm a newb (I like to think I'm pretty decent at this game).  I literally don't queue because I think group finders are an abomination against God and man, and everyday I get to hear someone come here and, instead of giving me a good reason to bother queueing instead of waiting to put together a premade, they reinforce my negative perception of its broader population.
 
Is it true?  Are all people in queue people I wouldn't want to run with?  It might not be, it could be all perception.  But that perception doesn't go away quickly.
 
So just remember that we have a lot of power, in a smaller game community, to poison our own well.  You're not doing the population any favors, but more importantly, you're not doing the queue any favors.  It's an unbalanced reaction; you're essentially making sure that these new people we're seeing, recruiting, and playing with aren't going to queue up because you haven't paired your complaints about queue times with any reason why anyone would want to queue with you.
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Entity exile at around 1030 pm pst. And yea level 50 dungeons
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Which proves exactly what we're telling you.
WildStar is not run by pugs but by close nit groups that work together.
Just the fact you got a group from the small groups by asking drives the point home.
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i always queue for something when in game. thats what i like to do: dungeons and pvp. mostly.
and queuing with me is a win. i can probably carry the group thru any vet dungeon as the sole dps. (warrior raiders op).
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so then. should carbine simply close the LFG tool for pve content ?
and make the "lfg" channel official ? or use a posting group finder system like gw2 ? (which basically works like a forum).
 
things to think about.
but at the moment there are QUEUES in the game, and REWARDS to use them.
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lol, my fear is being judged as a noob, coming from other mmo's that shall not be named here, it kind of jaded me and made me want to remain somewhat anonymous.  No one else's problem I understand, just the way I am. 
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The few dungeon runs I have done have only been with my very nice guild. They have been few and far apart, since after every attempt, I've felt "ouch, I need to train my movement/dodging/rotation even more!", so I'm as casual as you get.
 
To me, it feels like coordination tools (such as teamspeak and the various group assist addons) is a necessity for stuff such as synchronizing interrupt rotations, lining up for cleanses, and simply getting everybody moving in the same direction, especially when you are new and inexperienced; e.g. "Which boss power should I save my interrupt power for, now again?"
 
I would never, ever, considering queuing for something as difficult as a dungeon. Shiphand or adventure, yes, but never a dungeon. I'd much prefer to bother my guild mates for another pre-made group run, and considering the queue times people speak about, I think many reason the same way...	
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What are you even talking about?
I follow reddit, tumblr, twitter and these forums as well as many others.
The only doomsaying I see is from the same sources over and over again.
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The few dungeon runs I have done have only been with my very nice guild. They have been few and far apart, since after every attempt, I've felt "ouch, I need to train my movement/dodging/rotation even more!", so I'm as casual as you get.
 
To me, it feels like coordination tools (such as teamspeak and the various group assist addons) is a necessity for stuff such as synchronizing interrupt rotations, lining up for cleanses, and simply getting everybody moving in the same direction, especially when you are new and inexperienced; e.g. "Which boss power should I save my interrupt power for, now again?"
 
I would never, ever, considering queuing for something as difficult as a dungeon. Shiphand or adventure, yes, but never a dungeon. I'd much prefer to bother my guild mates for another pre-made group run, and considering the queue times people speak about, I think many reason the same way...
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makes sense.
 
then the game would thrive better with an LFG system similar to GW2. not a "random pug finder" but more of a "post your offer" type LFG system.
meaning that you can write down;
"lfg for stormtalon, experienced only"
or
"lfg for stormatlon, casual, with mumble"
or
"lfg for stormtalon, new player, no clue what he's doing pls halp!!"
 
i liked the system in gw2.. its more human.
actually i like most stuff gw2, i simply think it was such a smart mmo... good designers over there.
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I kinda like the LFG in guild wars 2
You could post your party for a dungeon and put in a little text (your level and what your are looking for, for example)
When you where bored you could easily look through the advertisement and maybe find a group that fits your style and join them.
 
Here just to give you the idea.
 
Not sure if it would work in WS but at the moment it's not really improving.	
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One day, with enough time and development, we'll even have a group finder that can finally have the complexity, clarity, and directness that an LFG channel had fifteen years ago...
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I kinda like the LFG in guild wars 2
You could post your party for a dungeon and put in a little text (your level and what your are looking for, for example)
When you where bored you could easily look through the advertisement and maybe find a group that fits your style and join them.
 
Here just to give you the idea.
 
Not sure if it would work in WS but at the moment it's not really improving.
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lol!! true that.
 
thats what gw2 have :) well, its like a LFG forum basically. but you can "click to join" on the different offers. its basically player created "LFM" that can have a subject to it.
solid. real solid.
 
lfg channel ok too, but a post forums in game is a step above imo.
 
anyway, wildstar is a bit retarded on some design ideas, but i fell they are slowly (very) turning it around.
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Ok, Vic. I think you just put into words what I have always felt but never quite understood why. I too have never understood the fascination with just turning on a queue and waiting for it to pop. I come from the world of EQ, who had no group finder, and EQ2, who's group finder was absolutely atrocious and literally no one used it (to be fair, the classes are far too complex and varied on EQ2 for a proper group generator). I've used WOW's and it was ok, but it never felt like real grouping, more like running a quick quest between my solo quests. I never really thought about the "why" of people liking group finders, but you totally nailed it. People just don't want to talk to each other these days. And it's sad.
 
MMO's are NOT single player games! Get out there, find some friends, talk in global chat, make a group the old fashioned way. Play MMO's as they are intended (you know, with other people, not just "interactive NPCs"). 	
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lol, my fear is being judged as a noob, coming from other mmo's that shall not be named here, it kind of jaded me and made me want to remain somewhat anonymous.  No one else's problem I understand, just the way I am. 
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{| class="blockquote"
Sometimes, I wonder about it all.  I've often said I'm kind of old school in some places, and I really hate automated group finders.  I sometimes feel like people are trying to build an automated system to be like a communication system because we, as a society have become so accustomed to automated systems that we have trouble interacting.  You'd think, if it had always been the case, that we'd just give people an old fashioned global LFG channel they could opt out of and simply let people develop the language and carry on.  "LFG vet STL gold medal run, ilvl 55 SS Healer".  Instead, we need a more complicated organism because we don't often want to talk to the people we group up with.  We could put together ZF groups in WoW, even with our smaller and sparser servers in that game, by just spamming and filling.  You didn't have a tank?  You encouraged a DPS warrior to equip a shield and you moved forward.  Shadow priests could switch to healing.  Just talking makes everything so much more flexible.  Now we need a system in place instead with the switches and knobs to do the talking for us.
 
It's just a feature of modern MMORPG gaming that I never quite got.  I questioned it even when WoW first introduced the DF as a way to quasi-merge servers.  I was saying on the forums at the time, "Just merge the servers, why do we need this thing?"  DF was terrible, it made your fellow players essentially disposable NPCs you never saw again.
 
Maybe they wouldn't have ever been necessary if LFG channels didn't become repositories for the unauthorized biography of Chuck Norris...
 
EDIT:  Does anyone have the link to that mocked up Group Finder the community and GMs like a lot from a month or two back?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
random pops like wildstar is only there because the designers couldn't think of anything smarter than to copy wow (that was probably their goal: make it like vanilla wow!).
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
the only difference between the LFG channel you mention and GW2's "post board" is that instead of throwing your offer in a channel that might easily be missed you post in on a forums/post board.
it is simply superior to a LFG channel while keeping the human side to it.
 
random pops like wildstar is only there because the designers couldn't think of anything smarter than to copy wow (that was probably their goal: make it like vanilla wow!).
 
so yeah, i think we can agree, a "post board" like gw2 is simply the best of all worlds. but probably won't happen as Carbine is a bit strapped at the moment.
we can still dream...
----
			
Ha! So I'm the "positive about pugging" guys? I guess I'll take that.
 
You know what I love about pugging? It's different every time. Sometimes you get people who've never done it and you get to help them out. Sometimes you get people in DS gear who just blow up the place. And sometimes you get similar geared people you can DPS race against. Or maybe I'm taking or healing and the different makeups create different challenges.
 
I guess you have to embrace the chaos a little, but I love it. I've run STL so many times, and I haven't needed anything from it in a long time, but pugging keeps it fresh and interesting.
 
And there's very little cooler to me than meeting someone new in a pug. We had a new recruit in our guild still leveling and he wanted to do SC normal. So we took a few folks from the guild to help him out on our 50s- I was tanking and two others brought alts. We pugged one guy who had never done it before and had very little experience. Well, we had a good time, the recruit ended up quitting a few weeks later (not a good fit), but the guy we pugged joined the guild and now is raiding with us. Those relationships are so rewarding, and he was just remarking how grateful he was to run into us. (Alright, bad example becuase this was mostly a guild group- but leaving it here anyway because I want to).But if you want to pug it takes a few things:-You have to be willing to deal with the occasional jerk. This part is the hardest for me and can definitely sour the experience. Fortunately, it doesn't come up in this game that much (despite the reputation, it isn't any worse than I experienced in WoW), and I always tell myself "The great part about being me is after this, I never have to be around that jerk again. He/She is stuck with him/herslef for the rest of his/her life".-You have to be willing to wipe. It happens in this game a lot. It's not the end- it means you have a chance to do better. "Why do we fall Bruce? So we can learn to pick ourselves up". Yep- we all get to be Batman!
 
-Finishing is not guaranteed. Enjoy the ride, because sometimes that's all you get.
-You also have to be flexible. Is it a learning run? A silver run? A hold-on-to-your-hat-boy-these-DS-guys-are-fast run? A run that is the worst trainwreck you've ever seen, so bad that all you can do is laugh?
 
-And that last part is critical for me. Can I laugh when things go wrong? Because even with highly geared people in this game, things can go wrong. Sometimes all you get from a pug is a great story, but it's only great if you can laugh when it gets absurd (yup, we have three 6/6 people and we can't get down Stormtalon . . .)Anyway, yeah I love pugging. A lot of times even more than guild/circle groups, though those are fun for completely different reasons.	
----
			
I don't think the LFG tool does anything bad to the community. But I would like a better board for sure.
 
Also, groups from the LFG channel (which should be standard) DO seem to be a lot better than the group finder one.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
More than likely it was just designed first.  I think people don't realize how long these games take to make.  It's sort of the same thing when people wonder why other games don't have Wildstar's best features yet.  It comes down to two things:
 
-Does it fit what the game is trying to do?
 
-Have they had time to steal it yet?
 
Odds are they had the group finder together as one of the earliest bits and never got around to changing it.  It's hard to say.  It doesn't help that people have a highly negative feeling about it.  Instead of being a place for beginners to begin and hang with random people to show them the ropes, most people see the Group Finder as something to use once they've already learned to do things with a group.  They don't want to be laughed at, criticized, or have the group disintegrate because they haven't mastered the Eye of the Storm mechanic yet.  That's probably the Group Finder's biggest issue, above all others.  The people in it aren't seen as being very friendly to new players.  Which began a long time ago and was brought on by exclusive gold medal loot requiring gold runs, which led to some nastiness in the groups when people would just drop after a death.
 
Even though that system no longer exists, the sour taste lingers.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
so yeah, i think we can agree, a "post board" like gw2 is simply the best of all worlds. but probably won't happen as Carbine is a bit strapped at the moment.
we can still dream...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
yeah. but you know what. if Carbine's designer were not like "lets copy wow. it worked for them, right?" and had bigger balls to begin with (like arenanet) then the game would have had a better chance. for the gameplay/lore/art is real solid!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The beauty is, there is no automation behind it.
The only thing that really need some coding is showing the class icons so you can quickly see if a group needs a DPS or a tank.
They should easily be able to design this within a month.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm not sure about a month to do it.  Maybe if that's all you're doing.  No reason it wouldn't be done unless they're doing something a lot more drastic to the Group Finder and that would just be a sideshow.
----
			
My memory is very fuzzy, but didn't WoW original have a posting board style before they moved to something closer to what we have now (which they have since moved beyond)?
 
Posting board is nice, but I do like the current LFG as well that just matches you with first available and off you go. I'd hate to lose that . . .	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
My memory is very fuzzy, but didn't WoW original have a posting board style before they moved to something closer to what we have now (which they have since moved beyond)?
 
Posting board is nice, but I do like the current LFG as well that just matches you with first available and off you go. I'd hate to lose that . . .
----
			
I'm on board with the posting board. In fact, if I thought people would use it, I'd create one out of game and have it live next week- that's how much I'd like something like that.
I'm just trying to remember the evolution of the LFG tool in WoW.
 
I don't see a reason to remove the LFG auto queue just because you don't like it, though. Don't use it if you don't like it. Both could live side by side.	
----
			In fact, I know this was mentioned yesterday, but I've been thinking about it. What kind of communication between players can add ons do? I know they can because of addons like "Will You Be My Neighbor?" If there was a way to broadcast info, you could effectively create a posting board as an add on.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
My memory is very fuzzy, but didn't WoW original have a posting board style before they moved to something closer to what we have now (which they have since moved beyond)?
 
Posting board is nice, but I do like the current LFG as well that just matches you with first available and off you go. I'd hate to lose that . . .
----
			
"Everyday there are new posts like this" GAME IS DED!!!!
 
Well every day there are 3 or 4 new people posting how much they just came back and love the game and ask for advice, people have different opinions, some will like it some won't. It's like this person played for 20 mins, and didn't even give the rest of the game a chance? :/ Not really sure why you'd play for 20minutes without asking anyone for a guild invite and ask how the game is doing, or pop on the forum and see if there are replies to you questions before judging. 20 minutes at the wrong time of day could give even THAT OTHER GAME a bad representation of queues and population.
 
The problem with lfg system is it makes people impatient, it really does. People want everything now. Waiting anything longer than 5min = ded gaem.
 
People are not very often to play with pugs because the content is harder than the average mmo, it's easier to go with people you know, or people you've met when levelling and can tell their playstyle better. I don't queue for normals when i'm levelling because there is no point really, doesn't give enough xp to warrant it.
 
Now with the new contracts function, if they were to make it so it was for lowbies too, and put quests into the dungeons and stuff, i could see them being more popular and queued for. As for now there is no motivation to queue for low level things :/ (it's really broken)
 
I go into vet pugs really often, same for bgs. On jabbit eu, the queues for dominion are less than 5 minutes from 3pm-3am, however exiles have to wait up to 20mins (because they're obviously obsessed with bunnies). Being on the unpopular side has it's benefits.
 
I'd love to have the lfg system for vets dropped, but have the ability to still port to the instance once you make a group. People are lazy remember :P	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
the best way to help the game is not to chill on your housing plot with your guild (a certain amount is needed, granted) but it is to partake in the Massively Multiplayer part of the game. and that is; doing content with pugs.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Theres no reason to do that type of conent once you don't need the gear. Why should I who's cleared datascape ever touch a dungeon again?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
"Everyday there are new posts like this" GAME IS DED!!!!
 
Well every day there are 3 or 4 new people posting how much they just came back and love the game and ask for advice, people have different opinions, some will like it some won't. It's like this person played for 20 mins, and didn't even give the rest of the game a chance? :/ Not really sure why you'd play for 20minutes without asking anyone for a guild invite and ask how the game is doing, or pop on the forum and see if there are replies to you questions before judging. 20 minutes at the wrong time of day could give even THAT OTHER GAME a bad representation of queues and population.
 
The problem with lfg system is it makes people impatient, it really does. People want everything now. Waiting anything longer than 5min = ded gaem.
 
People are not very often to play with pugs because the content is harder than the average mmo, it's easier to go with people you know, or people you've met when levelling and can tell their playstyle better. I don't queue for normals when i'm levelling because there is no point really, doesn't give enough xp to warrant it.
 
Now with the new contracts function, if they were to make it so it was for lowbies too, and put quests into the dungeons and stuff, i could see them being more popular and queued for. As for now there is no motivation to queue for low level things :/ (it's really broken)
 
I go into vet pugs really often, same for bgs. On jabbit eu, the queues for dominion are less than 5 minutes from 3pm-3am, however exiles have to wait up to 20mins (because they're obviously obsessed with bunnies). Being on the unpopular side has it's benefits.
 
I'd love to have the lfg system for vets dropped, but have the ability to still port to the instance once you make a group. People are lazy remember :P
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
In fact, I know this was mentioned yesterday, but I've been thinking about it. What kind of communication between players can add ons do? I know they can because of addons like "Will You Be My Neighbor?" If there was a way to broadcast info, you could effectively create a posting board as an add on.
----
			
I can tell you the pretty much THE reason I quit SWTOR was a lack of groupfinder at launch. That is, in order to find a group, you had to sit on the main ship and just spam chat and wait. I had to choose between playing the game and sitting around on the ship. I ended up just not doing the group content, and then getting bored with the game.
 
Now the fact that all the instances were at the ship rather than the zone probably didn't help, but even spamming the zone you were in didn't yield much in terms of results. Nothing like feeling you wasted an hour of your time doing nothing waiting for a queue to pop (in WS, you are generally doing something while waiting).
 
At any rate, perhaps if they'd had a global LFG channel it would have been better. I didn't play vanilla wow, so I don't know what was in at launch. I started mid BC and they had something decent in place that I quite enjoyed. I stopped mid WotLK so I don't have any experience beyond that.
 
I would like a better group finder for sure, but I see nothing wrong with a queue system.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Theres no reason to do that type of conent once you don't need the gear. Why should I who's cleared datascape ever touch a dungeon again?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Should be doable as an Addon.
 
There's point-to-point and channel based comms.  Different channels have different message limitations.  One of the downsides of the lib is there's no way to detach from channels once attached.
 
Somebody sets up the posting and the party forms on them.  The party leader's client periodically re-emits the post to catch people who haven't logged in since the last one went out.  If the party changes the re-post responsibility shifts to that client.
 
Edit: And since you won't queue until the party is fully formed you can potentially queue for multiple parties all wanting to do different things.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well then why haven't we created this yet? :P
 
It seems very dooable and would be a great add on. I'm sure it would be quite popular.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well then why haven't we created this yet? :P
 
It seems very dooable and would be a great add on. I'm sure it would be quite popular.
----
			So as a developer who has no experience with creating add ons ever, where would I start?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So as a developer who has no experience with creating add ons ever, where would I start?
----
			
Alright, well- hmmm. I guess I might do this after I add just a few more features to my raid sign up page . . .
 
If I do, I'll start a thread in the proper forum and get some ideas for exactly how it should work.	
----
			
Also, it seems to me one of the quickest things you could throw together would be an add on that simply monitors a channel (like "LFG" on entity) and looks for the words "LFG" or "LFM" and then adds it to a visible list along with the user who said it so LFG requests made in chat could have some persistence and more visibility.
 
You could add features from there- but I'd think that would be easy to create.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Also, it seems to me one of the quickest things you could throw together would be an add on that simply monitors a channel (like "LFG" on entity) and looks for the words "LFG" or "LFM" and then adds it to a visible list along with the user who said it so LFG requests made in chat could have some persistence and more visibility.
 
You could add features from there- but I'd think that would be easy to create.
----
			Take it from someone who has to design hospitals all day.  The best design in life is one that's simple to build, easy to maintain, and durable to casual rough handling.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
that would be a baby step.
but a good one.
the word "persistence" here is important.
obviously a fancy UI with titles and clickable slots with roles to fill posts/groups would be better (really, think gw2 and try to improve on it if ever possible).
 
though, the easiest way as a start is making a webpage... less convenient, but way easier.
gw2 had no group finder at the beginning ! its a dude who created the LFG webpage. then Gw2 actually took this idea and put it in game.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Take it from someone who has to design hospitals all day.  The best design in life is one that's simple to build, easy to maintain, and durable to casual rough handling.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
im a clothing designer by day.
i approve that.
but i'll add: it needs to look good.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
im a clothing designer by day.
i approve that.
but i'll add: it needs to look good.
----
			Simple and clean is the most desirable looking thing imho. If it's too cluttered or tries too hard to be stylish me no likey.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Simple can look great.  I think it's forgotten in design sometimes, but there is such a thing as too much design.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Simple can look great.  I think it's forgotten in design sometimes, but there is such a thing as too much design.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well you saw my raid scheduler- I like simple :)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I ask the community dont lie to the ppl about the population, i know if a lot new player buy the game and play the population will grow, but better way if the company make any changes for it..
----
			
I can attest that the dominion pop EU side is smaler than exile. PUG shiphands and the level 10 dungeon popped for me for 3 nights now as exile..I'm currently level 13. On the dom side my level 16 toon played for 2 nights..NOT ONE que popped during that time!!....SO i changed side to exile.
 
But ofc..at max level and  with a guild there would probably not be a population problem on dominion side, but personally i love pugging so for me it was best to join the carebears:).
 
But my conclusion is: Wildstar does NOT have a great population problem per say. It has a faction problem and it has a pvp server problem.....and with the continous nerf and more casual friendly content...more ppl will likely come back...I came back because I think wildstar is a very good game....and I read it had become more casual friendly! EVEN casuals wanna raid in some form or shape...and game makers better let them if they want to make money:)	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I can attest that the dominion pop EU side is smaler than exile. PUG shiphands and the level 10 dungeon popped for me for 3 nights now as exile..I'm currently level 13. On the dom side my level 16 toon played for 2 nights..NOT ONE que popped during that time!!....SO i changed side to exile.
 
But ofc..at max level and  with a guild there would probably not be a population problem on dominion side, but personally i love pugging so for me it was best to join the carebears:).
 
But my conclusion is: Wildstar does NOT have a great population problem per say. It has a faction problem and it has a pvp server problem.....and with the continous nerf and more casual friendly content...more ppl will likely come back...I came back because I think wildstar is a very good game....and I read it had become more casual friendly! EVEN casuals wanna raid in some form or shape...and game makers better let them if they want to make money:)
----
			
Look at wow...the faction balance is very good. Its almost 50-50 but i think alliance has slightly more....This tells me they made both sides sort of appeling (damn english for a non english speaker).
 
While my first toon was dom, and I like dom luminais and architecture and style....I think they overdid it with the "evil" nature of dominion....I kinda think of germany during ww2 when i think about dom...and its slightly disturbing.
 
But alas...its to late to change that...so I think the only option would be to make dom side more attractive! How? I dunno...maybe a new race for both sides...but make the dom one cool as ice? ;)
Alternatively....as someone on this forum suggested. Make all the que's for all the things shared between factions. Introduce a greater enemy that we all must fight....	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Look at wow...the faction balance is very good. Its almost 50-50 but i think alliance has slightly more....This tells me they made both sides sort of appeling (damn english for a non english speaker).
 
While my first toon was dom, and I like dom luminais and architecture and style....I think they overdid it with the "evil" nature of dominion....I kinda think of germany during ww2 when i think about dom...and its slightly disturbing.
 
But alas...its to late to change that...so I think the only option would be to make dom side more attractive! How? I dunno...maybe a new race for both sides...but make the dom one cool as ice? ;)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You'd be surprised.  I don't think I was ever on a WoW server that had a close faction balance.  The closest was I think 2/3.  The problem is that internal game divisions build.  The population seems closer to 50/50 in WoW because there are multiple servers, with faction swinging either way.  In Wildstar, you essentially have one active megaserver at this point, so the faction imbalance you have is the faction imbalance you have.
 
A new race might help (certainly swung the population in WoW during BC, if Belves didn't make you want to gouge your own eyes out).  However, I think they need to just start the work of making the faction barrier more permeable.  Just enabling groups to form across it or guilds to take members from both sides, though it would take a lot of programming work, would make sure a great many people play the faction they want to play, rather than the faction with more people.  Unfortunately, people get calcified into their own faction, and there are a great many people who would be playing Dominion right now who can't because many of their in-game friends are Exiles.
 
It's really a lot more prevalent than most people think.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
factions imbalance don't bother me as much as lack of players in a game that was clearly designed to have 5+ times the amount of players... (2v2,3v3,5v5,bg,warplot,rated,unrated... right there they were aiming for the *cupcake* sky. + they made an ultra linear game with almost no reason to turn back once you outlevel/outgear a stage leaving all new players in the dust playing unplayed content).
 
overall.. in these days and age. a mmo should be designed in a much smarter way than that. especially with a sub and without a crazy IP to back it up.
 
most mmos studios lack the big picture though, or lack the balls... they all have their small tweaks here and there. but aside from Gw2 i don't see any AAA that tried to push some boundaries that WoW put in place years ago.
 
sadly... :\
----
			
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
Wrong, the only positives come from the same people. Over and over again. There are some new players that are impressed at first but they soon fade away into the background, some come here, rant and the same people tell them its their fault not the game.
----
			
I love how you class people who enjoy the game and socialising on forums, "roleplayers".
 
Lol, idk even what roleplay entails or why people are inclined to do it. Some of us come here cus they'd like to express their interest in the game, not in it's pay model.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Was this on low level or veteran dungeons?
Because low level dungeon queue's are indeed horrible at the moment. Most of them skip them till level 50.
If this was a veteran, can you tell me the time and server this was on?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I love how you class people who enjoy the game and socialising on forums, "roleplayers".
 
Lol, idk even what roleplay entails or why people are inclined to do it. Some of us come here cus they'd like to express their interest in the game, not in it's pay model.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I am so glad you posted this Fox, because it's true.  I have come back to see how things have improved, and Carbine's best shot at making money with this "AAA" MMO with less people than Runescape, is to go F2P.  However, this "welcoming" atmosphere of small RP cliques wants nothing to do with new players that will flow in from the F2P format because they "aren't invested".  *Roll eyes*.  I think some of them actually enjoy the low population, because typical selfish (introverted or unique *weird*) human nature would love a huge vibrant world in which to frolic with their small guild groups in a just a small fraction of said world. 
 
I remember the huge falling out when the RP server was shut down.  Oh my lord the sky was falling.  
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You always do this, and no matter what someone answers you will skew your ridiculous defense.  "Oh that server isn't populated, there is a problem, go to the PvE one"  oh you're on the active PvE one, clearly you prove my point that you need to ask in trade chat for a group and not que".  There is no winning with you Olivar.  You are the definition of insanity. 
 
 
I am so glad you posted this Fox, because it's true.  I have come back to see how things have improved, and Carbine's best shot at making money with this "AAA" MMO with less people than Runescape, is to go F2P.  However, this "welcoming" atmosphere of small RP cliques wants nothing to do with new players that will flow into the F2P format because they "aren't invested".  *Roll eyes*.  I think some of them actually enjoy the low population, because typical selfish (introverted or unique *weird*) human nature would love a huge vibrant world in which to frolic with their guildies in a just a small fraction of said world. 
 
I remember the huge falling out when the RP server was shut down.  Oh my lord the sky was falling.  Hell, I am waiting for Lethality to come in here and blame the players for Wildstar's short comings.  That will clench the thread. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Nice edit on the personal attacks, but you're way off the point.
First of all, it's pretty rude to put the RP community in the light as you did, calling them weird and selfish. This is completely uncalled for, and not even remotely related to the points being discussed.
If all you can contribute to a discussion is insults, then please stay out of it.
 
And your "view" on the RP community couldn't be further from the truth.
The RP community is one of the most open and accepting communities around here. We don't shy people away if they're not into Roleplaying, heck  we will play with anyone who asks or is interested.
Unlike the elite PvE or PvP crowd who rather dissed on people for not meeting their standards.
 
And your logic on my other replies?
Pure attention seeking.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It's funny, you're blasting Olivar for things he didn't say, but what I said(advising people to talk to others to get a group, problem is probably trying to find people when it's not the server's prime time, wants nothing to do with new players that will flow into F2P format because they "aren't invested") :P  I'm not an RP'er, I'm in a tiny family guild, and I'm uber-casual, all that stuff that I pointed out are just from my casual observations when I'm paying attention to chat.  People don't like to use group finder, they'd rather spam globally to find a group, so it stands to reason that if people aren't getting queue pops maybe they too should do what the majority of other players are doing: spam chats.  If you're trying to get group content when it's not prime time, it's going to be slow going, or damn near impossible.  And as to F2P not being invested in the game, well, FREE to play pretty much says they aren't.  So the people that aren't invested in the game, they don't see why they shouldn't be jackwagons and the people that do pay into playing the game have to put up with them.  Sorry, but no, don't want to experience that again.  Sure, we may see a rise in group content queue pops, but if they're *cupcakes* that don't see any problem with acting like *cupcakes*, flaming people, or just standing around with their thumbs up their third points of contact, what's the point?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Lead by example and develop thicker skin.  The game shouldn't suffer because you don't like certain personality types.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Then why the resistance to a free to play model that would bring in more people to play with?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Hey, if they're just shooting off in chats, it's not that big of a deal, I just won't read chat or I'll ignore them.  But I'm referring to the ones that do that crap in group contents, don't contribute to the group, they draw the content out due to their jackwagon-ness, or in the case of PvP just go sit and spin in a corner.  How is that something we should want or have to deal with so we can have more queue pops?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Because it will be the end of the game.
The game will evolve into nothing but a nickle and dime scheme run by NCSoft, and no longer by Carbine. Especially with the recent changes being pushed by their investors, even if NCSoft is fighting against it.
 
Once Free 2 Play hits, it becomes solely about landing whales, keeping whales happy and making sure they keep purhasing all the useless crap that is being happened.
Because that's how F2P games make money. They hook whales, they please their whales to ensure their money keeps rolling.
Normal players who have a invest rate of maybe 2-20€ a month on the game are second rank citizens. They get put on the waiting queue with support, they are left in the dark, and usually problems are not being resolved.
 
Which also means the focus of development shifts.
The only content being focused on, is that what keeps the whales happy, and not nescecarrely that which pushes the game further into growth or content.
Your main focus is going to be keeping the Cash shop filled, and making sure the game itself pushes people towards the cash shop hard enough to have them spend money, but not so hard that it's becomming a scam.
In the end your people are going to be paying more money for the game, whereas you as developer just need to keep adding more crap to the shop.
There's little to no focus being done actual content such as raids, instances and what not.
 
What will the end result be?
A constant shifting user base that sticks around long enough until they get tired of the cashshop and move on.
Whales that keep spending because they enjoy it until they have everything and move on.
Your tight-nit community that has been around for almost a year now, helping Carbine improve the game and actually provide decent feedback does not exist anymore.
Because we all know how well feedback is beign handled from the playerbase in F2P unless it brings in more money.
 
And before you even try to counter me on this discussion, you better come prepared with damned good evidence.
I've worked in this industry for years from Customer Support up to development and team management.
I know how the F2P market works, and what investors expect.
And I can tell you why many indy devs are NOT lookign for investors anymore but rather kickstart projects.
 
Because F2P is the bane of good game development.
 
 
 
 
Awesome community example here.
This is exactly why we're against F2P
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No, it's your justification to keep Wildstar in an unsustainable bubble until its gone.  I love the game to much to not entertain the idea of F2P reviving it. 
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Because you are blowing it out of proportion.  I like to have a bit more faith in humanity than to believe the vast majority of F2P new players will act this way.  If that were the case, scrap the whole idea of an MMO, because you feel only a small percentage of gamers have the capacity to be cordial.  That is a you problem, not the game's problem.  That is why we can disband, or leave groups.  That is why we have the ignore function.
 
And most importantly, your argument is a terrible one to base not going F2P to revive this game.
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No, it's your justification to keep Wildstar in an unsustainable bubble until its gone.  I love the game to much to not entertain the idea of F2P reviving it. 
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I am classing the people in this thread who on one hand claim to be welcoming towards new players, unless they are F2P new players because they lack investment in the game.  Those same people in this thread tend to be in RP guilds no?  No derailment for you!
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