132818-signature-plan-gives-no-ncoins

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Seems a little sad you can't throw in like $5 worth of NCoins with a $15 monthly subscription...  Most other subscription plans I've see all seem to give a little currency too.  Sad, really sad.
 
Please change this.
 
Thanks
 
 
Please Like to Sign like a petition =D	
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			Agree 100%	
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			Wait, what?	
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Yeah, or maybe a discount? I'm finding the cash shop is pretty expensive, especially on top of a $15/month membership. Not paying over $10 for a hoverboard, no way.
 
Edit: I'm writing this update because I made this post a long time ago, and it still gets likes every now and then. I've been getting signature from redeeming CREDD (it's only like 10p-15p, and you get 1k cosmic points from it). This opens some financial room for buying mounts and things. I've definitely spent some $$ in the cash shop-- I really do want to support carbine, though I still feel that some items have been overpriced.
			
				
	Edited February 1, 2016 by Prince Cocoon	
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Yeah, or maybe a discount? I'm finding the cash shop is pretty expensive, especially on top of a $15/month membership. Not paying over $10 for a hoverboard, no way.
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			You'll be getting Omnibits as you play. This is effectively your stipend/discount.	
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			do signature accounts get omnibits at a faster rate?	
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do signature accounts get omnibits at a faster rate?
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			I'm up to tier 6, and I got the Omnibit buff (can't remember which tier either, but one of the later ones). You get an 100% increase. I'm going to give this a try for like a month and see if my subscription is worth it for this. I don't really care about most of the perks offered with Signature, but I really wanted a cash shop stipend for my subscription.	
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			Signed and Signed. I asked about this in an earlier thread and never got an answer. Guess I got it now. Oh well.	
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			Considering how little value many of the signature bonus give.  They really should give it.  I mean, you can't really count some of the bonus, like full social status, when anyone can acquire it by just buying one month or 800 Ncoin for $10.	
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			I think it's ridiculous that they don't do this. This is a basic feature to any GOOD free-to-play game. Look at SWTOR. They grant you x amount cartel coins each month you have a sub as a 'thank you' for subbing and an incentive to sub. The fact that we don't get anything for our subscription in that regard is a bit shocking actually. I had thought they did this. Serves me right for assuming Carbine would follow suit with the most basic staple of free-to-play games, I guess?	
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I think it's ridiculous that they don't do this. This is a basic feature to any GOOD free-to-play game. Look at SWTOR. They grant you x amount cartel coins each month you have a sub as a 'thank you' for subbing and an incentive to sub. The fact that we don't get anything for our subscription in that regard is a bit shocking actually. I had thought they did this. Serves me right for assuming Carbine would follow suit with the most basic staple of free-to-play games, I guess?
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			This does seem kind of weird, I know The Secret World gives you 10 dollars worth or so to spend in the shop. I don't know how I feel about subscribing but even 5 dollars worth would be nice.
			
				
	Edited September 29, 2015 by Calypsx	
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			Ugg, already spent almost 30p and 1k NCoins and my main isn't even close to where it was before. 	
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I'm glad they don't give a monthly stipend of NCoins. The ultimate result of a stipend is that it incentivizes the developer to bloat the cash shop as much as possible with things for subscribers to spend their stipend on, and to set the cash shop prices around the fact that subscribers have a stipend to spend in order to get players to spend more than their stipend.
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I think it's ridiculous that they don't do this. This is a basic feature to any GOOD free-to-play game. Look at SWTOR. They grant you x amount cartel coins each month you have a sub as a 'thank you' for subbing and an incentive to sub. The fact that we don't get anything for our subscription in that regard is a bit shocking actually. I had thought they did this. Serves me right for assuming Carbine would follow suit with the most basic staple of free-to-play games, I guess?
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I can never pass up free stuff.  If I give you $20 can I have $10 back to spend on pixels.  I support this!
 
Hell give me $20 back to spend on pixels and you still come out ahead.
			
				
	Edited September 29, 2015 by Foul Wind	
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Didn't think about this, but I totally agree. Even SWTOR does this.
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			Didn't think about this, but I totally agree. Even SWTOR does this.	
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			It's not really necessary. SWTOR doesn't give you cartel coins for doing content (outside of 10-20 here and there for getting achievements). The omni coins are plentiful enough for grinding content that you'll get a few hundred before you know it. I'm pleased that I can actually play the game and buy mostly everything in the shop.	
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			Also just as an aside, they handed out 4 free months of Signature service to a lot of people who stayed subscribed during the lead up to F2P. That's essentially another stipend, you get to spend that $15 on NCoin for 4 months and come out ahead.	
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It's not really necessary. SWTOR doesn't give you cartel coins for doing content (outside of 10-20 here and there for getting achievements). The omni coins are plentiful enough for grinding content that you'll get a few hundred before you know it. I'm pleased that I can actually play the game and buy mostly everything in the shop.
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Most F2P games include an ability to subscribe to the game for a fee (usually around 15 dollars a month). Doing so gives your account a bunch of bonuses like XP and money buffs, additional account perks, etc etc. It also usually comes with a stipend of store currency as well.
 
For example:
 
Swtor gives you 500 cartel coins in addition to all the other perks each month (600 if you use a security authenticator)
Elder Scrolls online gives you 1500 crowns each month in addition to the other perks.
The Secret World gives you $10 worth of store credits each month in addition to other perks.
 
Without the stipend, the value of the Signature account is drastically lowered. Without the bonus NCoin, "subscribers" might feel as if the game is still very much Free 2 play, even though they are paying a monthly fee. Many of the account perks can be purchased with NCoin without the need for a reoccuring subscription. I find myself thinking why not just buy Coins when i need them, and get rid of the subscription all together. (this shouldnt be something customers think is more viable or valuable)
 
I want to see WS do well, by making enough money to survive. I cant help but think that the somewhat crippled Signature account option may ultimately turn away a lot of potential buyers, because it lacks the bonus store credits for each month that you subscribe to it, in comparison to many other F2P games out there. Dont let the competition get the upper hand here, Carbine.	
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			After looking over the signature service benefits, I figured I'd give it one month.  It doesn't look like they offer a lot for staying subscribed, but I want to see how it feels to have it before I let it go.	
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I stopped reading when you said SWTOR was a good F2P game. Everything in that shop is stupidly overpriced, the feature unlocks for 30 days at a time are the worst cash grab I've seen in an F2P MMO, and all the different random junk boxes are hugely random with a high crap to shiny ratio.
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Yeah it would absolutely awful if you were arm-twisted into using Service Tokens (a currency bought on the cash-shop) to restore your gear to what it was before F2P.  Oh wait.
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You'll be getting Omnibits as you play. This is effectively your stipend/discount.
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Well the great part about SWTOR's cash shop is all of that stuff is included in the sub. So if you're a sub you get all of the unlocks and the only thing you might ever want in the cash shop is a costume or something like that. But the sub fee gives you everything outside of the current expac, plus a stipend. So yea it's actually a great deal.
 
Anyway I agree with others, TSW and SWTOR both do this and it would be good for Wildstar too as well. The one game I know that doesn't is TERA and that has always caused players to have to spend a ton of money since you're paying for a sub along with any cash shop items you want. So while that has earned them a shit ton of money over the years, the cash shop slowly went P2W over the years and got irritating a long time ago for me in terms of money needed to keep up. I do not think that's a method that Carbine needs to copy and they certainly don't have the reputation at this point to get away with the current model ( whereas EME had, and arguably still has, a fairly good reputation so was able to get away with the cash grab model for a long time without any complaints).
 
Give sub players a stipend they can save up long term to buy the items  they want off the cash shop and you'll get more subs anyway along with happier customers.
 
Edit: I might also suggest giving an extra, small stipend for usage of the authentication app. SWTOR also does this on top of the stipend you get for being a subscriber.
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Do you want a bloated cash shop? Because that's how you get a bloated cash shop.
 
Seriously. If they give a stipend, they're going to have to start churning out more and more content for the cash shop just so subscribers have something to spend it on. I really don't want WildStar's cash shop to turn into SWTOR's.
 
Tier 5 Cosmic Rewards has the following reward: "OmniBit Drop Rate: Increases the amount of OmniBits awarded on drops by 100%". F2P players won't be able to get this perk if they don't spend a lot of money in the shop. That's a good way to do it. It allows subscribers to get what's in the shop through in-game play more easily, rather than creating new items for the shop just so subscribers can spend their stipend on it.
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			Honestly, without a stipend and with Cosmic Points as they are there's really no point to going Signature.  It actually seems more worth it to just buy $15 NCoin a month.	
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			Common, game developers have to eat also!	
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Honestly, without a stipend and with Cosmic Points as they are there's really no point to going Signature.  It actually seems more worth it to just buy $15 NCoin a month.
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			I was also surprised even a small stipend wasnt provided. I really wanna see how the omnibits play out.I hope to see how many I make running a character to 50. 	
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You must mistake the posters in this thread for the people determined to play the game 100% for free. Most people here are willing to PAY money every month, so I dont exactly see what the problem is with the devs making stuff that we might actually want to BUY.
 
I dont ever think ive seen someone go to costco and complain "Stop selling so many products, your store is so big and full of stuff, its too hard for me to shop here!!"
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			I am pretty surprised with this as well and will be rethinking my Signature status due to this. 	
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You're missing the point of what I'm saying. I'm not suggesting that the people in the thread want to play the game for free. They don't want to have to spend more money than the subscription price. There isn't anything wrong with feeling that if you're paying a subscription price, you should get the contents of the game - that's one of the hallmarks of a subscription-based game (or was, in any case, as there aren't any P2P games without a cash shop now).
 
The problem is, with a cash shop in a hybrid game, if a game offers a stipend for subscribers, they have to bloat the cash shop to keep subscribers using it. It wouldn't be the case of going to the current cash shop with your monthly stipend of 500 and getting that one new outfit you have been wanting for a while. It would be the case of going to the ever-expanding cash shop and only being able to afford the chest-piece of one the 10 cool new outfits that they just added to the shop this month.
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			They really did not put a lot of thought into retaining our subscriptions.	
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			I'm on the fence about this. I raged against the lack of Cash Shop Coins in the Rift Subscription when it first dropped. But over time it's just worked out better to spend my monthly allotment on Credits than on the sub. Then I don't feel that subscription obligation to play every day to get my money's worth. So now I'm sort of leaning that way here too. I'm really glad that there doesn't seem to be a discount for buying larger stacks of NCoin. I hated that about Rift. There was enough of a bonus that you really shouldn't buy any less than the $100 pack. I'm much more likely to drop $10 on Ncoin each month than $100 once a year.	
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Your idea of bloat doesnt match mine apparently.
 
If im getting a stipend, i WANT the devs to constantly add more to the cash shop so that I have things to spend it on. I want all kinds of cool outfits, mounts and mini pets.
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			The cash shop is 100% optional, though. With a monthly allowance, you could literally just save up over time and get everything eventually. Why not just keep it totally optional and let people buy NCoins when they feel like it?	
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The stipend is the Omnibits. Play enough and you'll generate enough.
 
Why is this difficult to grasp?	
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The thing is, the subscribers posting here who want a stipend would much rather have those cool outfits, mounts and mini pets be attainable in game. They just want access to content without having to spend more than what they pay for their subscription. They don't want an ever-expanding cash shop of cosmetic outfits, mounts and mini-pets that a monthly stipend won't even make a dent in.
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I was also surprised even a small stipend wasnt provided. I really wanna see how the omnibits play out.I hope to see how many I make running a character to 50. 
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Do you want a bloated cash shop? Because that's how you get a bloated cash shop.
 
Seriously. If they give a stipend, they're going to have to start churning out more and more content for the cash shop just so subscribers have something to spend it on. I really don't want WildStar's cash shop to turn into SWTOR's.
 
Tier 5 Cosmic Rewards has the following reward: "OmniBit Drop Rate: Increases the amount of OmniBits awarded on drops by 100%". F2P players won't be able to get this perk if they don't spend a lot of money in the shop. That's a good way to do it. It allows subscribers to get what's in the shop through in-game play more easily, rather than creating new items for the shop just so subscribers can spend their stipend on it.
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			/signed	
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Yeah it would absolutely awful if you were arm-twisted into using Service Tokens (a currency bought on the cash-shop) to restore your gear to what it was before F2P. Oh wait.
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I stopped reading when you said SWTOR was a good F2P game. Everything in that shop is stupidly overpriced, the feature unlocks for 30 days at a time are the worst cash grab I've seen in an F2P MMO, and all the different random junk boxes are hugely random with a high crap to shiny ratio.
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Yeah, I was surprised by this.
 
ESO gives 1500 Crowns per month with really carpy sub benefits.
 
Wildstar gives 0 Ncoins with a really good sub program.
 
Seems like it's either one or t'other. 	
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I'm glad they don't give a monthly stipend of NCoins. The ultimate result of a stipend is that it incentivizes the developer to bloat the cash shop as much as possible with things for subscribers to spend their stipend on, and to set the cash shop prices around the fact that subscribers have a stipend to spend in order to get players to spend more than their stipend.
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I stopped reading when you said SWTOR was a good F2P game. Everything in that shop is stupidly overpriced, the feature unlocks for 30 days at a time are the worst cash grab I've seen in an F2P MMO, and all the different random junk boxes are hugely random with a high crap to shiny ratio.
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			I assumed subscribers would be getting some Nsoft coins or Omnibits (never recall them ever saying we would though). Was alittle shocked that it isn't part of the subscription. 	
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You get no NCoins because CREDD exists. If people could also get NCoins without paying money, then there would be no reason to pay.
 
That's the reason. I would bet money on it.	
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Most F2P games include an ability to subscribe to the game for a fee (usually around 15 dollars a month). Doing so gives your account a bunch of bonuses like XP and money buffs, additional account perks, etc etc. It also usually comes with a stipend of store currency as well.
 
For example:
 
Swtor gives you 500 cartel coins in addition to all the other perks each month (600 if you use a security authenticator)
Elder Scrolls online gives you 1500 crowns each month in addition to the other perks.
The Secret World gives you $10 worth of store credits each month in addition to other perks.
 
Without the stipend, the value of the Signature account is drastically lowered. Without the bonus NCoin, "subscribers" might feel as if the game is still very much Free 2 play, even though they are paying a monthly fee. Many of the account perks can be purchased with NCoin without the need for a reoccuring subscription. I find myself thinking why not just buy Coins when i need them, and get rid of the subscription all together. (this shouldnt be something customers think is more viable or valuable)
 
I want to see WS do well, by making enough money to survive. I cant help but think that the somewhat crippled Signature account option may ultimately turn away a lot of potential buyers, because it lacks the bonus store credits for each month that you subscribe to it, in comparison to many other F2P games out there. Dont let the competition get the upper hand here, Carbine.
 
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Seems a little sad you can't throw in like $5 worth of NCoins with a $15 monthly subscription...  Most other subscription plans I've see all seem to give a little currency too.  Sad, really sad.
 
Please change this.
 
Thanks
 
 
Please Like to Sign like a petition =D
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The stipend is the Omnibits. Play enough and you'll generate enough.
 
Why is this difficult to grasp?
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Stipend doesn't affect the cash shop. They're going to put a ton of stuff in the cash shop because it's a F2P game and that's the primary method of making money. At least with a stipend we don't have to spend more on that stuff than we're paying for a sub.
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You get no NCoins because CREDD exists. If people could also get NCoins without paying money, then there would be no reason to pay.
 
That's the reason. I would bet money on it.
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You get no NCoins because CREDD exists. If people could also get NCoins without paying money, then there would be no reason to pay.
 
That's the reason. I would bet money on it.
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			I might actually drop my subscription right now. I don't need any of the bonuses it gives. :/	
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If they made CREDD convertible to, say, 1600 NCoin, that would work, since someone would have to pay real money for it. Also, that way people could spend plat to get NCoin, and subscribers do get a bonus to currency, so that would make it easier for them to buy CREDD/NCoin in-game.
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Wrong. SWTOR doesn't do that and they give a decent amount every month. And you're also wrong about the "buying a chest piece". You can buy whole outfits and only whole outfits in SWTOR's shop.
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			So you post very few examples that still don't actually support what you're saying but ignoring the fact that most of the stuff on the store can be gotten for REASONABLE costs. Save up your monthly allotment to get what you want. That's just ignorant to expect to be able to buy everything you want with just a monthly grant and not even close to an argument or point if you honestly think that you shouldn't have to save up month to month to get something special you want. That's not bloating, that's giving people a reason to save if they can't afford more than the sub rather than not being able to get it at all because they can't afford to spend the money to buy ALL the coins needed immediately. You have to be reasonable here with the arguments. So far, nothing posted supports a reason not to grant us a monthly bit of NCoin for our $15 a month sub so we can buy/save up to buy what we want on the store without having to spend more or FARM OmniBits. Being forced to farm or spend MORE real money to get stuff on the store is far worse than what SWTOR does and nothing you can say will convince me otherwise. Nothing. The idea is to give you a way to get coins because you're spending money already on a sub because right now, there's zero reason to sub and the annoyance of how this is being handled is more than enough justification to never give Carbine a penny.	
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I'm glad they don't give a monthly stipend of NCoins. The ultimate result of a stipend is that it incentivizes the developer to bloat the cash shop as much as possible with things for subscribers to spend their stipend on, and to set the cash shop prices around the fact that subscribers have a stipend to spend in order to get players to spend more than their stipend.
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			You are going to have to come up with better actual evidence rather than conjecture.  I have yet to be convinced that a stipend is a bad thing.	
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Give Carbine some time to see how the ncoin shop progresses and they might as well add in extras for signature members.
 
Since I haven't seen actual pricing in the store yet (eu here), I can't comment on how cheap or not items are compared to other f2p mmos, but if one hoverboard is $10, it's at least much cheaper than for example WoW mounts.	
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			This does seem kinda straight forward.  Signature Service is decent enough, tossing in some "Make Believe CASH" seems like a no brainer.  They know its not real right?  i.e.  no cost to them?  I would think this is more a NCSOFT thing then a Carbine thing but who knows. 	
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Because other devs might bloat, we shouldn't get coins.
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If they made CREDD convertible to, say, 1600 NCoin, that would work, since someone would have to pay real money for it. Also, that way people could spend plat to get NCoin, and subscribers do get a bonus to currency, so that would make it easier for them to buy CREDD/NCoin in-game.
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After finally being able to open the Store i had a chance to look at some items and their prices.
It looks to me like NCSoft never dealt with cash shop currency before, starting with no discount for larger amounts of NCoins you buy, 800NC will cost you 10€ and 8000 will cost you 100€.
Pets, mounts and costumes costing the same amount, 790NCs, which is 10€....sooooo yeah.
 
As for the stipend, i wouldn't mind receiving it, but it wouldn't mind some deep (like 50%) discount on shop items for Signature accounts instead. All those buffs are nice and all, if you wan't me to spend additional 10€ on top of my sub, you need to do better.
			
				
	Edited September 30, 2015 by Cotheer	
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			I 100% agree. Every other MMO with some sort of micro-transaction system (ESO, SWTOR, Rift) gives a certain amount of coins or tokens or whatever a long with your subscription. I'm already paying $15 a month, Carbine. That isn't enough?	
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The example that keeps being given of a "good" way to do it is SWTOR, which is the prime example of bloat. 
 
To put things in perspective, when SoR launched, there were 8 unique sets of armor available through a Cartel Pack, with 6 more unique armor sets released in another Cartel Pack a month later. Meanwhile, the mission reward armor set on Rishi was, color variation aside, the exact same thing for every class, and all 4 versions of crafted adaptive armor were just color variations of the same armor as well. Why not have more variety in what can be attained in-game?
 
If this is an example of a good way to do it, I'd hate to see a bad one. ;)
 
 
IMHO, it would be better to ask for something other than a stipend to make the signature plan more appealing, since there is already a way to get cash shop items, without spending money, through Omnibits.
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After finally being able to open the Store i had a chance to look at some items and their prices.
It looks to me like NCSoft never dealt with cash shop currency before, starting with no discount for larger amounts of NCoins you buy, 800NC will cost you 10€ and 8000 will cost you 100€.
Pets, mounts and costumes costing the same amount, 790NCs, which is 10€....sooooo yeah.
 
As for the stipend, i wouldn't mind receiving it, but it wouldn't mind some deep (like 50%) discount on shop items for Signature accounts instead. All those buffs are nice and all, if you wan't me to spend additional 10€ on top of my sub, you need to do better.
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I think both sides have a point here, so here's my two bits.
 
1. This is mostly about expectations. Most games that have a hybrid subscription/F2P system do offer a stipend of cash shop currency, this one doesn't. So subscribers end up feeling surprised and undervalued because the expectation is that they will have a stipend and they don't get one.
 
2. While omnibits are available in-game to everyone for cash-shop purchases, that's not a subscription benefit--everyone gets that.
 
3. I will confess that I don't find the subscription benefits to be all that huge an incentive to subscribe, and a few other posters have noted the same. The benefits are OK--they're not great. And $15/month can buy a lot of NCoin in comparison.
 
So I'm going to suggest that if the subscription does in fact improve the drop rate of Omnibits through things like the +EXP bonus (if each X experience points gives 1 omnibit, for example), this should be explicitly pointed out so that it's clear to subscribers that they are in fact getting a boost to Omnibit acquisition.
 
If it doesn't, then a boost to Omnibit acquisition makes sense as a benefit to include for subscribers, or an increase in the weekly softcap of omnibits. Something that subscribers can point to and say "Yes, this is what I get above and beyond a nonsubscriber that helps my $15/month tap into all that cash shop shininess."
 
Unless, of course, Carbine doesn't view subscriptions as a significant part of the revenue stream going forward. I don't know what their view on subscriber retention as a viable part of F2P marketing is or what data they're using to inform that decision.	
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So I'm going to suggest that if the subscription does in fact improve the drop rate of Omnibits through things like the +EXP bonus (if each X experience points gives 1 omnibit, for example), this should be explicitly pointed out so that it's clear to subscribers that they are in fact getting a boost to Omnibit acquisition.
 
If it doesn't, then a boost to Omnibit acquisition makes sense as a benefit to include for subscribers, or an increase in the weekly softcap of omnibits. Something that subscribers can point to and say "Yes, this is what I get above and beyond a nonsubscriber that helps my $15/month tap into all that cash shop shininess."
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Well the great part about SWTOR's cash shop ....So yea it's actually a great deal.
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So I'm going to suggest that if the subscription does in fact improve the drop rate of Omnibits through things like the +EXP bonus (if each X experience points gives 1 omnibit, for example), this should be explicitly pointed out so that it's clear to subscribers that they are in fact getting a boost to Omnibit acquisition.
 
If it doesn't, then a boost to Omnibit acquisition makes sense as a benefit to include for subscribers, or an increase in the weekly softcap of omnibits. Something that subscribers can point to and say "Yes, this is what I get above and beyond a nonsubscriber that helps my $15/month tap into all that cash shop shininess."
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			A drop rate increase doesn't help much if the cap is the same.	
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I still don't understand why people are salty about the SWTOR cash shop. Again, literally every single piece of gear can be bought and sold on the GTN. You don't have to pay a cent to get items from the gamble boxes. The best part? So many people buy the boxes that the prices of all the items get driven wayyy down. It's a win/win for everyone, unless you're some crazy person who thinks opening 1000 gamble boxes is going to make you a profit.
 
Meanwhile I'm over here mad that SWTOR isn't releasing new raids, you know, something that's actually a problem. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
			
				
	Edited September 30, 2015 by cakesphere	
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You do get a drop rate increase (100%), but it doesn't happen until tier 5. I think this is a little too late to include this bonus. If you subscribe, you should have this no matter how long you stay subscribed. I have yet to actually see how much drops for me right now because I'm still figuring out how to play WildStar again.
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Very late in tier 5.  I'm roughly 50k points away from it.  Unless I get lucky and find a store with several cheap boxes I am so not going to get there any time soon.  At the rate this is shaking out that's likely never because I'm getting far less interested in giving CRB any money at all.
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I actually agree with the first part.  I think the prices are too high.  The only thing I would get though are the deco packs and the kitty and I'm sure once I get home, I'll get the kitty.
 
As for the stipend, I don't need it.  It would be nice, but I don't need it.
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I still don't understand why people are salty about the SWTOR cash shop. Again, literally every single piece of gear can be bought and sold on the GTN. You don't have to pay a cent to get items from the gamble boxes. The best part? So many people buy the boxes that the prices of all the items get driven wayyy down. It's a win/win for everyone, unless you're some crazy person who thinks opening 1000 gamble boxes is going to make you a profit.
 
Meanwhile I'm over here mad that SWTOR isn't releasing new raids, you know, something that's actually a problem. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Heh... you dont NEED anything in the cash shop. Thats the point of a cash shop that isnt pay2win. Its all luxary stuff. cosmetic and fluff. So of course you dont NEED a stipend to buy stuff. But since you are paying 15 bucks a month, it sure would be a nice perk to be able to enjoy some of that unneeded stuff for fun, since you are supporting the company with your money. Dont you think?
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{| class="blockquote"
Heh... you dont NEED anything in the cash shop. Thats the point of a cash shop that isnt pay2win. Its all luxary stuff. cosmetic and fluff. So of course you dont NEED a stipend to buy stuff. But since you are paying 15 bucks a month, it sure would be a nice perk to be able to enjoy some of that unneeded stuff for fun, since you are supporting the company with your money. Dont you think?
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{| class="blockquote"
Heh... you dont NEED anything in the cash shop.
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			The real kick in the rear will probably happen when Carbine releases info on how they plan to add expansions to the game. If subscribers dont get the expansions for free with their current subcription system, any attempt to charge NCoin or real cash for them (like many other f2p games do) is going to result in an even bigger uproar.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Sadly untrue if you depend on end-game gear.  Rerolling slots via plat is still stupid expensive.  Recovering certain runes from gear can only be done via Service Tokens which must be bought from the cash shop.  The alternative is to destroy them but that also carries yet another stupid expensive plat fee.
 
The trickle of Omnibits and Service Tokens granted to Signature Service players doesn't even come close to being sufficient.  And forget alts unless you're prepared to crack open your wallet.
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I wouldn't mind staying subscribed if we received both an increase in omnibit drop rate and a cap increase. I'd also really like us to be able to get one free item every time they update the cash shop. Like if they offer three new things, we get to pick one. This might be too much to ask with the omnibit stuff, but if they don't bother with that, I think we should at least get one free thing a month from the cash shop for subscribing. 
 
This is assuming they refuse to ever offer NCoins.
			
				
	Edited September 30, 2015 by Spider Bro Jenkins	
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{| class="blockquote"
Being that im not at end game, ill admit that the things you mention shouldnt be in the cash shop, or should at least be available to Signature players for in game coin instead.
 
Subscribers should NEVER EVER have to pay extra money for in game elements that are simply required to play. PERIOD. Thats the whole frelling point of subscribing.
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{| class="blockquote"
Setting progression raiders back to a level at near half their performance, and then requiring gobs of plat to get back to said performance, but allowing that to be bypassed with real cash, is dangerously close to setting up something that is NEEDed in a cash shop. Because when progression goes backwards, raid teams fall apart and guilds split.
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{| class="blockquote"
Why spend Plat to get NCoin.. spend plat to buy the item off the AH.
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{| class="blockquote"
There are various buffs to drop rates, but last I knew it hadn't been confirmed that they apply to Omnibits. There is an Omnibit buff in Tier 6 Cosmic Rewards, or maybe Tier 5. I forget.
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{| class="blockquote"
OR, you can spend service tokens that allow you to select exactly which rune color you want and "make it so". Oh, but you can use bit coins to get service tokens. Yep, but with the cap, if you try to earn the service tokens in game you will take a few weeks to be able to rune your gear. Meanwhile you know that if you don't show up to raid on Friday with your slots filled correctly, your team is probably going to end up not being able to down bosses you had on farm. 
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't see an Omnibit buff listed as a Signature perk so that leaves the perk in Tier 6. How do you get to tier 6? By giving them RL money.
Not cool.
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{| class="blockquote"
 I feel the Signature benefits (something SWTOR or CoH didn't come close to matching) more than make up for the lack of a stipend.
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			Reading this thread has convinced me that there is absolutely no reason to sub. I'll just spend the $15 I would have subbed with on coins instead.	
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{| class="blockquote"
They're not. Jeff and John are overstating the impact of a one-time hit to veteran players due to reitemization that happened between the P2P and F2P versions of the game because they're upset about it.
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{| class="blockquote"
But this is simply not a requirement to pay money to at endgame even if you've got signature status. And they know it's not.
 
Zero cash is required to optimize your endgame gear.
You can in fact do it 100% through in-game resources that do not require you to pay cash, or anyone else to pay cash for you.
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{| class="blockquote"
But on the other hand, between plat and omnibits I expect it will take me no more than a week to have my main back in shape--two weeks if I dawdle and screw around doing lots of other stuff. Without paying a dime.
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			Everyone is saying there is no reason to sub.. but there are manyhttp://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/2015-05-28-wildstar-is-going-free-to-play-heres-all-you-need-to-know/ at the bottom 
			
				
	Edited October 1, 2015 by Silverhope	
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{| class="blockquote"
Everyone is saying there is no reason to sub.. but there are manyhttp://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/2015-05-28-wildstar-is-going-free-to-play-heres-all-you-need-to-know/ at the bottom
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I just bought my first omnibit item today, a character slot 115 omnibits, I had 116 from questing the last few days (was up a lot last night as no lag!), I got the double omnibit drop rate as I bought loads of boxed copies trying to get the costume (well title really) for a second character, then got it about 3 times in a row.  I also have tons of ncoins to use but haven't bought anything yet, not sure why but I want to buy stuff with omnibits!  The one F2P game I played Tera did include some sort of keys stipend?  I agree the subscriber package is a bit weak, I noticed increased rep, renown etc but not noticed much increase in gold dropping (but it must be 25% too) which is needed as everythings been nerfed and costs loads.  Not sure what the omnibit drop cap is?
 
This service tokens issue for runes leaves a bad taste in the mouth for raiders, I hadn't even runed my gear since coming back in June and starting a few characters from scratch.
On a side not I have had 2 ability points drop and another one while daily questing in a group which I lost.  Before F2P I never had one!	
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This is funny. I think this is like the meta-game of all F2P games. Game goes F2P and everyone stops complaining about the "awful" subscription that gave them access to everything and only cost a nominal monthly fee that was equally paid for by all but then begins the endless bickering and complaining about the cash shop and membership rewards. Every little addition or change to the cash shop or rewards program or content will be a hotly contested debate about what is "fair".
 
If people want fair they shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the subscription model  because you're not going to find it in a F2P game. F2P by design is inequitable to the playerbase. Any system that can have free players at one end and "whales" on the other will never be fair. Which end of that spectrum do you think they are designing the game for now? You can bet it's not the free end. So suck it up people! You wanted a "free" game sooo..get out your wallets. ;)
			
				
	Edited October 1, 2015 by EQBallzz	
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One thing about NCSoft.
 
They are known for increasing drop rates and such, and then doing stealth nerfs later.	
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{| class="blockquote"
If people want fair they shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the subscription model  because you'r not going to find it in a F2P game.
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't *want* the F2P model. I want a sub model. Which is why I'm going to continue to pay the sub. But the runes stuff is making this very stressful. Allowing me to actually grind for service tokens would alleviate this pain, but right now there is a weekly cap on omnibits earned from playing the game.
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			Subbing is for Whales.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Your idea of bloat doesnt match mine apparently.
 
If im getting a stipend, i WANT the devs to constantly add more to the cash shop so that I have things to spend it on. I want all kinds of cool outfits, mounts and mini pets.
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{| class="blockquote"
Subbing is for Whales.
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{| class="blockquote"
This is what it looks like to me:
-New piece of gear drops
-Couple plat to add a new slot
-Extract runes from old gear- need 225 service tokens. Hope I've been saving them up. That's like a months worth of omnibits. Or maybe I'll create new runes. It will be interesting to see how the prices equalize, but right now to create a divine rune is easily 30 plat. So who knows what that will cost, but it won't be cheap.
-Reroll bad slots. Let's say we have 2 good slots and need to re-roll 3. That's another 75 service tokens.
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{| class="blockquote"
They're not. Jeff and John are overstating the impact of a one-time hit to veteran players due to reitemization that happened between the P2P and F2P versions of the game because they're upset about it.
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I can see them giving you more omnibits(which they kinda do in a sense already), but Ncoin as I understand is not a currency exclusive to Wildstar and can be used for lineage and blade n soul as well.(possibly other games in the future too) So I can't really see them giving ncoins...
 
I wasn't aware of there being an omnibit cap, but perhaps we could think of a higher cap level that is more in line with with what people may prefer?
 
Also in regard to runeslots,. I haven't been around to really look at them, but are they still as crucial to being "perfect/near perfect" as before? I thought part of the stat revamp was to make the runes more as a supplemental thing rather then a end all, be all for a piece of gear(unless you're really min/maxing)
			
				
	Edited October 1, 2015 by Typrop	
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{| class="blockquote"
It looks to me like you're neglecting how much it cost in plat to completely optimize a new piece of gear in the old system, which also wasn't cheap and also had the risk of permanently locking the gear in a suboptimal state by getting a bad flux reroll on one of those three rune slots.
It also looks to me like you're ignoring the option to reroll using plat instead of service tokens, which is particularly funny in a response to the criticism that you're making the system look like it requires cash when it doesn't.
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{| class="blockquote"
You've conveniently ignored that the old system didn't require perfect slots.  
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{| class="blockquote"
It looks to me like you're neglecting how much it cost in plat to completely optimize a new piece of gear in the old system, which also wasn't cheap and also had the risk of permanently locking the gear in a suboptimal state by getting a bad flux reroll on one of those three rune slots.
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{| class="blockquote"
OK, you didn't have an optimized gear set. That explains why you didn't find it to be a burden before.
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I don't particularly care about a cash shop discount or whatever, but I have always felt that signature status did not give enough of a bonus. They made f2p accounts just really freaking fair, and because of that it doesnt feel like you get enough bonus things with your signature account.
 
I'm keeping it regardless because I want to support carbine, but it really needs to have better bonuses.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Yes things are still in flux but as it stands right now making the completely naive assumption that we'll be able to full clear GA each week it's going to take about two months for our raid team to acquire the mats needed for their class sets.  These sets are now more essential than full AMP/Ability Tier unlocks.  
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{| class="blockquote"
If gear fully outfitted not just in Pure/Divine runesets but Pure/Divine class runesets are required to raid, this would be the first I've heard of it.
 
Can you direct me to the PTR thread where this requirement is outlined from all those people who have tested the raids under the new conditions and found themselves completely unable to perform the raids with regular Pure/Divine runes or Pure/Divine non-class runesets?
 
I'm pretty sure that the lack of choices here depends critically on the absolute requirement for those sets in your previous sentences, so I'll hold off on that one until I get more details about how much evidence there is that they're required.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm keeping it regardless because I want to support carbine, but it really needs to have better bonuses.
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{| class="blockquote"
Since omnibits are weekly capped, this may just not be possible. And at the current rate for runes, earning that much plat is prohibitive as well. 
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{| class="blockquote"
Actually, it's a soft cap.
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Double Omnibit cap for subscribers.
Cut all varieties of costs for runing and rerolling for subscribers.
25% cash shop discount for subscribers
Exclusive items in cash shop for subsrcibers.
 
Add those things, and the problem would be solved, really.  The game was running great on a $15 a month sub.  If these benefits were to be put into place, guaranteed that most players would sub to gain them.  Carbine would have a higher player base (combined of f2p and subbed players).  Most of them would sub, because of the benefits.  Most people (even subbed) would still spend at least some money in the cash shops, adding further revenue beyond the initial goal of $15 monthly sub for everyone.
 
The whole time these people are subscribing for those benefits, people can still play for free and gain the same objectives in game, except for the exclusive cash shop items.  It would certainly take more time without subbing or spending money in cash shop, but unpaid time is still free.  It will give free players time enough to gain more plat and omnibits to get the same goals without spending any money.
 
The exclusive items to subscribers can't be brought up as an issue, because they are still being bought for real money.  It's not an advantage over the people that don't want to pay any money, simply an advantage over those that don't want to pay a set amount every month.
 
The best part is there is zero actual cost to Carbine, simply reduced profits.  Although...If the game design was originally balanced around a $15 per month sub, they'll still be increasing profits fairly drastically.  	
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{| class="blockquote"
I can see them giving you more omnibits(which they kinda do in a sense already), but Ncoin as I understand is not a currency exclusive to Wildstar and can be used for lineage and blade n soul as well.(possibly other games in the future too) So I can't really see them giving ncoins...
 
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I am curious if people will consider Signature worth it. I do feel like it will be very good while leveling character, and will be worth it for the hardcore player who wants to get extra money. I feel like it's more valuable to the newer player than the old player though.
 
A boost to omnibit gain would be nice to see, even it was only 50% more omnibits. A bigger cap on the weekly bonus, though I'm still 70 omnibits away from that and not sure if I'll hit it. Or maybe a small bit of omnibits per month subscribed (50 omnibits maybe?)	
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{| class="blockquote"
If gear fully outfitted not just in Pure/Divine runesets but Pure/Divine class runesets are required to raid, this would be the first I've heard of it.
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{| class="blockquote"
RL: Let's see, oh! Stalker DPS, John you need this upgrade. 
Me: Pass, won't be able to afford to re-rune for another five weeks. 
RL: But it's an upgrade. 
Me: Oh hey, if I salvage it maybe I'll get the fragments I need to finish out that last piece you stuck me with.
RL: #%@$!
Some Random Whale: Just whip out that wallet you cheap-o, you're dragging us down
CRB: *rubs hands in glee* money, money,money,money!
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{| class="blockquote"
When you MadBlue said "they have to bloat the cash shop to keep subscribers using it"
 
The point is then missed... the cash shop in my opinion is to make F2P players using it... the stipend is a reward for subscribers... period... 
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{| class="blockquote"
It's not really necessary. SWTOR doesn't give you cartel coins for doing content (outside of 10-20 here and there for getting achievements). The omni coins are plentiful enough for grinding content that you'll get a few hundred before you know it. I'm pleased that I can actually play the game and buy mostly everything in the shop.
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{| class="blockquote"
Explain. Because if I've misunderstood the cap on omnibits, it would potentially change my perspective. 
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			So wait for buying and playing the game for months when the game came out, and even subbing up a month in advance and I get no N coin or whatever they are called for shop? That kinda sucks...	
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What an entitled bunch of ^$$8^T$ you all are.
They owe you nothing, you already get enough stuff and shinies.  You don't get to decide what you want.  If we could all get what we WANT life would be fantastic wouldn't it?
 
Where do these entitlement issues come from, have they become so inherent in our society that we cannot wait to invoke some special reason to get more stuff?
Like loyal members that you are, you are paying because you like the game, support the game/staff and genuinely enjoy it!
 
Stop being so dang greedy.  You already get so many perks, now you want them to hand you bloody currency too?  You want them to send you part of their paychecks also?	
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{| class="blockquote"
What an entitled bunch of ^$$8^T$ you all are.
They owe you nothing, you already get enough stuff and shinies.  You don't get to decide what you want.  If we could all get what we WANT life would be fantastic wouldn't it?
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			I wanted to post today about my omnibit drop today. I got the tier 5 buff. I couldn't do much today, but I did Vet Fragment Zero. I took about 20-30 minutes and got gold. I earned 12 omnibits today from that. If the drop rate stays about the same, I might consider keeping my sub.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Are you kidding me?  You cannot compare Cartel Coins and Omnibits.  You can buy anything and everything in the shop with Cartel Coins.  You cannot do that with Omnibits.  What if I wanted to use my Omnicoins on fortune tokens?  Nope.  No sir.  No can do.
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{| class="blockquote"
So wait for buying and playing the game for months when the game came out, and even subbing up a month in advance and I get no N coin or whatever they are called for shop? That kinda sucks...
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There's no need for a stipend.  As stated it  bloats the cash shop.  Then why have a sub service??? Because of cosmic rewards, because extra loot, xp, and tokens. 
 
This game does not pressure you into paying a sub, its  giving you a genuine f2p experience.  You can spend your money on how you see fit.  You may sub till you get to the top tier of comic rewards and stop after that.  You may never sub, and just buy Ncoins,  you are still on the path to comsic rewards that way.  You may never spend a cent on this game and still enjoy it. And I for one welcome you here. I appreciate playing in a world that is populated. As free players are not separated from paying ones. 
 
And for those that can afford to sub indefinitely, well I bow to you and I hope have an epic adventure and I am sure the devs of Wildstar will have something special for you.	
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			Bottom line to anyone actually trying to argue against this (still zero valid reasons, btw)....it's no skin off your nose. If Carbine does it, then great and you don't have to use them if it's such a big deal, and if they don't, well, they'll have to live with whatever consequences that may happen because of it. It simply makes no sense at all to argue about this.
			
				
	Edited October 2, 2015 by Lord Rakknarr	
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{| class="blockquote"
There's no need for a stipend.  As stated it  bloats the cash shop.  Then why have a sub service??? Because of cosmic rewards, because extra loot, xp, and tokens. 
 
This game does not pressure you into paying a sub, its  giving you a genuine f2p experience.  You can spend your money on how you see fit.  You may sub till you get to the top tier of comic rewards and stop after that.  You may never sub, and just buy Ncoins,  you are still on the path to comsic rewards that way.  You may never spend a cent on this game and still enjoy it. And I for one welcome you here. I appreciate playing in a world that is populated. As free players are not separated from paying ones. 
 
And for those that can afford to sub indefinitely, well I bow to you and I hope have an epic adventure and I am sure the devs of Wildstar will have something special for you.
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{| class="blockquote"
Details on exactly how omnibit limits work are pretty sparse, but Meerkat has explicitly called the weekly limit on omnibits a softcap. (Thread's been locked, so I can't quote it, but the quote is linked)
There was also a "known issues" post in the CBT updates noting that the omnibits "remaining weekly" tooltip displays negative values once the cap is exceeded. Which obviously can only be an issue if the cap can be exceeded.
 
My understanding of it from those points is that it's possible to exceed the cap and--presumably--like any other softcap: diminishing returns once you pass the softcap threshold.
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{| class="blockquote"
Bottom line to anyone actually trying to argue against this (still zero valid reasons, btw)....it's no skin off your nose. If Carbine does it, then great and you don't have to use them if it's such a big deal, and if they don't, well, they'll have to live with whatever consequences that may happen because of it. It simply makes no sense at all to argue about this.
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{| class="blockquote"
My assumption has been that the cap is on omnibits you can earn through play, but you can still get them through login rewards and other avanues. Sort of the way there is an eldergem cap, but you can gems above the gap through certain quests.
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{| class="blockquote"
It's been pointed out that NCoin is an NCSoft account level currency that can be spent in the cash shops of other NCSoft games (Aion, Lineage II and B&S) as well as WildStar. That pretty much settles it. They're not going to grant a free monthly stipend of a currency that can be used in other games' cash shops.
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{| class="blockquote"
It's been pointed out that NCoin is an NCSoft account level currency that can be spent in the cash shops of other NCSoft games (Aion, Lineage II and B&S) as well as WildStar. That pretty much settles it. They're not going to grant a free monthly stipend of a currency that can be used in other games' cash shops.
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{| class="blockquote"
What is the problem with doing that? It's still the same amount of money no matter which game the currency is spent on. Is there something I'm missing?
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{| class="blockquote"
The problem is that other game studios in NCSoft's portfolio might reasonably object to someone paying 15 bucks to Carbine and getting NCoins that they turn around and spend in Aion.
 
The publisher has more than one studio that they house.
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			. . . or they could just make it a big sack of onmibits that doesn't count toward the cap.  Omnibits can only be spent here, so no worries about getting a mess of them here and redeeming them in other worlds.  If coding that is a bear, make it a scheduled deposit that happens an hour before the scheduled cap reset.
			
				
	Edited October 2, 2015 by Shendorion	
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{| class="blockquote"
. . . or they could just make it a big sack of onmibits that doesn't count toward the cap.  Omnibits can only be spent here, so no worries about getting a mess of them here and redeeming them in other worlds.  If coding that is a bear, make it a scheduled deposit that happens an hour before the scheduled cap reset.
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{| class="blockquote"
The problem is that other game studios in NCSoft's portfolio might reasonably object to someone paying 15 bucks to Carbine and getting NCoins that they turn around and spend in Aion.
 
The publisher has more than one studio that they house.
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