97651-update-notes-7162014-page-3

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 EXACTLY! Why all of a sudden do you assume that the chance of getting the epic you want to drop, is better, when the chance of an epic at all are WORSE.  Seriously?  Do you stop and think about anything before you respond?
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{| class="blockquote"
The piece you are missing is the additional roll on the final boss/event, that only rolls against a table with just the old silver and gold rewards on it.  I don't know of a source for the old silver reward numbers though, so its difficult to know how much this equalizes the old and new probabilities.
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{| class="blockquote"
given certain assumptions
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Well at least it solves the 1 problem.
 
Those who would quit because they are not guaranteed their 1 Epic will not be in your party anymore - because there is no more guaranteed epic.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't believe the system is currently functioning that way in Adventures.  People are getting three items for gold adventures.  It appears that the initial roll on the "final boss" is only occurring in dungeons, where there actually is a final boss.  Adventures are only getting the instance wide rolls for loot, which is why the chance at epics is diluted.
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{| class="blockquote"
That is certainly something that should be reported then, if it isn't happening for final events, since its a pretty key part of equalizing the probabilities.
 
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{| class="blockquote"
Crimelords
32 blue, 8 purple
12.5% then / 7.5% (5%/2.5%) now
 
 
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{| class="blockquote"
It's a straightup nerf to the individual trying to get a specific epic from an adventure.  However, it is not as a bad a nerf as it initially feels:
 
The data on the number of blue and purple quality items that drop in the instance is taken from wildstarloot.com.  If anyone has a more reliable source, I would welcome it.  The percentages bellow are the chance you would have received the specific epic you where looking for after achieving gold in the old system, and the chance you will receive it in the new system given three rolls for gold.  In parenthesis are the chances for the item in the new system given a silver/bronze medal.
 
Crimelords
32 blue, 8 purple
12.5% then / 7.5% (5%/2.5%) now
 
Malgrave
42 blues, 16 purple
6.25% then / 5.2% (3.5%/1.7%) now
 
SoTR
29 blue, 10 purple
10% then / 7.7% (5.1%/2.6%) now
 
WotW
38 blue, 13 purple
7.7 / 5.8 (3.9%/1.9%) now
 
In spite of the nerf, this system still might be better for the community if it stops so many groups from disbanding.  That said, the complete mismanagement of this announcement has probably done more harm than the new system will ever do good.  So many people that used to farm adventures for that one epic they needed have now walked away from adventures for good.
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{| class="blockquote"
This is actually a big nerf. Going from 7.7 to 5.8% is a 25% decrease, it is not a 1.9% decrease.
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@Kristioli
 
You are quite right.  Though the linear approximation is pretty close with only three rolls :).  I really need to break down and buy excel for my home comp so I can stop doing math with the windows calculator.	
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{| class="blockquote"
The numbers in parenthesis don't mean what you think they do.  Read the whole post again.
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{| class="blockquote"
Nah. I didn't get that 1.9% from your parenthesis, I got it from subtracting 7.7 by 5.8. You are making it seem like a small nerf by putting 2 small numbers right by each other.
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I would argue that the new medal system is not a change that caters to casuals.  In fact, this new implementation (which many of us expected would result in reducing the tedium of RNG in adventures, myself included), requires MORE time and investment to get those items. 
 
The fact is players do not need the gear from adventures to do dungeons.  Players could ultimately skip that content were it not for the attunement because of crafted gear.  Not every player, however, wants to spend all their money on crafted almost-BiS items to do dungeons.  Some of us wanted to grind the content, get our golds, and get our purples because it feels like an achievement. 
 
The biggest problem I have seen in Wildstar end-game content is that Carbine forces players to experience the instances which are tedious and boring.  But, ironically, in many cases they are also presenting a problem where we the players find means (which are allowed by design) to skip the content.  Speed runs in dungeons often require or, in the very least, highly encourage finding terrain exploits to skip trash, thus circumventing a third or so of the dungeon just to meet the timer (another topic issue in other threads to remove timer and increase difficulty).  Even addons such as TapThat and CheatSimon, which developers have praised as great additions to the game, defeat the design of a certain mechanic.  If you wanted players to cheese their way through the content and ignore the mechanics, why not just remove the mechanics completely?
 
The other big issue I have with Wildstar design is the RNG.  RNG filled with RNG and another splash of RNG is not hardcore; it is not challenging; it is an annoyance.  Defeating a boss while avoiding 5 different telegraphs and no one dying is hardcore (see: pre-nerf Hammerknell Akylios); waiting for a helmet to drop and when it does it has the wrong rune slots (and you can't double up elements) is not hardcore.  I feel Carbine has created a game to parody the MMORPG system and the employees maniacally laugh at these posts because we've fallen into their trap.  How much crap can we put into a game and still keep a player base grinding it? Battleship crafting? Rune slots? Boom boxes with crafting mats? Yep, the players will keep playing with them.
 
The dungeons are fun and I enjoy the difficulty of them.  The adventures are tedious and waste a lot of time as I carry my guild mates through their attunement process.  Add in the opportunity cost of this new medal system, I would state grinding money in other means and purchasing the gear to ignore adventure grinding is now the best option for spending ones time.  If I wanted so much RNG and the need to skip most content, I'd spend more time playing AARPGs grinding end-game loot.  At least there, I feel a bit more rewarded for grinding the tedium.	
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			this new system is horrible, i have ran 11 Vet wars today 3 silvers and the rest were golds and out of all those not 1 Purple drop.	
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			May we pls have a Dev (not community manager) answer? How many more pages will take? Are Devs (not community managers) listening?	
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{| class="blockquote"
Many people in the initial pages of this thread reported three blue items received, no epics for completing gold.  If the system worked as described for adventures (and it appears to work as described for dungeons), then the system could be a buff.  Even if they fix it though, the bungling of this communication and the initial existence of the assumed bug have done lasting damage to the community.  At this point in time, people don't really need more reasons to quit running content.
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The only good thing to come out of this update is it completely obliterated all desire to play Wildstar, right when the Archeage Beta dropped. I thank you for that, as the feverishly addicted back to back Gold Medal farming of last week has now been replaced with a complete lack of desire and emptiness for Wildstar.
 
Relatedly, you proved to me that just like social programs, when you take away all incentive for performing better than others & the possibility of being rewarded for hard work, there is no desire to "work" at anything.
 
Maybe i'll come back next week for some PvP next week but Carbine completely shattered the magic. /The_Honeymoon_is_over	
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{| class="blockquote"
May we pls have a Dev (not community manager) answer? How many more pages will take? Are Devs (not community managers) listening?
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a very bad idea, with good intentions and terrible results.
 
Malgrave only gave 1 epic, a ton of trash blue items, and a sense we had been cheated at the end.	
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{| class="blockquote"
a very bad idea, with good intentions and terrible results. Malgrave only gave 1 epic, a ton of trash blue items, and a sense we had been cheated at the end.
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Let's try using some actual math, from actual loot tables (I'm using wildstarloot.com as my source.  Even if it isn't 100% accurate, it is still illustrative).  Also, my statistics skills are pretty rusty, so I may be off on a few of the calculations, but I'm far closer than the folks claiming that "three rolls with a 25% chance each gives you a 75% chance of a specific result." :D
 
Let's take Veterans Crimelords of Whitevale.  The site lists 32 blues and 8 purples that can drop in the instance.  Before the patch, a Gold run gave you 2 guaranteed Epics, or in other words, a 200% chance at an Epic, and a {1- [1 - [(1/8)]^2]} = 23.4% chance of getting the specific Epic you wanted.
 
New system: the 4 alleged Gold rolls consist of 1 on the "last boss plus previous Gold+Silver table" and 3 for the instance table, but I can't find any source that breaks down what is on the "last boss," so let's just assume that all 8 Epics and an equal number of blues are on this table.
 
That gives a 50% chance of getting an Epic on that roll (note that it is very clear from the posts in this thread that there is some sort of bug, at least when you get Gold, making it so this roll doesn't even occur).  Chances of getting the Epic you want (assuming you only want one): .5 * (1/8) = 6.25%
 
Now for the other 3 rolls.  There are 40 items that can drop in the instance, and 8 are Epic.  So, Chance of Epic is {1 - [1 - [8/40)^3]} = 48.8%.
 
The way probabilities work (and contrary to the way most people posting in this thread think), you do NOT add probabilities together.  So, the total chance of getting 1 Epic under all these assumptions (and once they fix the Gold bugged "boss roll") is:  1 - {50% (from the first roll) * (1-48.8%)} from the second roll = 74.4%.  Chances of getting the Epic you want: 74.4% * (1/8) = 9.3%
 
So, using all these assumptions, and assuming they fix the bugged "boss roll", you are looking at, at best, a situation where you can expect a 75% chance of getting ONE Epic, when before you were guaranteed TWO.  Until they fix the bug, it would be less than 50%.  Given that all anecdotal evidence in this thread point to the drop rate currently being less than 25%, it is clear some of these assumptions are wildly optimistic.
 
Therefore, even if you use the clearly overly optimistic assumptions, AND they fix the "boss roll bug," the chances of getting ANY Epic from this instance went from 200% to maybe 75% (i.e., about 1/3 the chance you had previously) and the chance of getting one specific Epic went down by about the same amount.  Net result, gearing up will take about 3 times as long as it would have.  The reality, based on the results being reported here, is far worse.  And that doesn't even take into account how much longer it will now take to find groups (if you even can), since few people are willing to run them for so much less reward.	
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If I read their intent right [a single roll on the former gold reward table] is now an item on the final boss's loot table.
 
The problems with this should be obvious to anyone with even a child's grasp of how probabilities work.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Let's try using some actual math, from actual loot tables (I'm using wildstarloot.com as my source.  Even if it isn't 100% accurate, it is still illustrative).  Also, my statistics skills are pretty rusty, so I may be off on a few of the calculations, but I'm far closer than the folks claiming that "three rolls with a 25% chance each gives you a 75% chance of a specific result." :D
 
Let's take Veterans Crimelords of Whitevale.  The site lists 32 blues and 8 purples that can drop in the instance.  Before the patch, a Gold run gave you 2 guaranteed Epics, or in other words, a 200% chance at an Epic, and a {1- [1 - [(1/8)]^2]} = 23.4% chance of getting the specific Epic you wanted.
 
New system: the 4 alleged Gold rolls consist of 1 on the "last boss plus previous Gold+Silver table" and 3 for the instance table, but I can't find any source that breaks down what is on the "last boss," so let's just assume that all 8 Epics and an equal number of blues are on this table.
 
That gives a 50% chance of getting an Epic on that roll (note that it is very clear from the posts in this thread that there is some sort of bug, at least when you get Gold, making it so this roll doesn't even occur).  Chances of getting the Epic you want (assuming you only want one): .5 * (1/8) = 6.25%
 
Now for the other 3 rolls.  There are 40 items that can drop in the instance, and 8 are Epic.  So, Chance of Epic is {1 - [1 - [8/40)^3]} = 48.8%.
 
The way probabilities work (and contrary to the way most people posting in this thread think), you do NOT add probabilities together.  So, the total chance of getting 1 Epic under all these assumptions (and once they fix the Gold bugged "boss roll") is:  1 - {50% (from the first roll) * (1-48.8%)} from the second roll = 74.4%.  Chances of getting the Epic you want: 74.4% * (1/8) = 9.3%
 
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Except 12.5% is still nowhere near what we're seeing in practice. 
 
I'm pretty sure they just added *ROLL AGAIN ON GOLD TABLE* to the boss's loot, which is consistent with the abysmal rates we're actually seeing.
 
So in practice, your odds are 1/33 (32 blues + 1 Gold Table promotion) and then 1/8 on THAT table for the item you want.
 
Which is 1:264 of getting the item you want, since you have to 'win' two tables instead of one now. Which is a lot closer to what's being reported.
 
edit: Or a 0.37% chance.	
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I don't think i've seen so many replies to patch notes ever O_o
Lack of dev response to acknowledge player dissatisfaction or give any explanation regarding the current state of loot etc is disappointing.  :unsure:	
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			Over 48 hours and no response. :(	
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{| class="blockquote"
Over 48 hours and no response. :(
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There was a server restart this morning, but fixes have been insignificant.
 
And I don't think we will get a response.  It's like admitting to have made a mistake.  The community manager had enough personality to do that, Carabine's dev don't!	
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{| class="blockquote"
There was a server restart this morning, but fixes have been insignificant.
 
And I don't think we will get a response.  It's like admitting to have made a mistake.  The community manager had enough personality to do that, Carabine's dev don't!
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Welp 3 vet adventures, 2 gold one silver, NO EPIC.
Thanks for killing the fun and gearing progression by adding RNG ontop of RNG ontop of RNG.
Korean mmorpg we do not want.
 
Oh yeah and new hotfix is complete garbage.	
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			Why you are acting like Blizzard? Why you dont acknowledge that none of the community wants this? Why don't you accept this was a bad move that needs to be done correctly ASAP? At least pls respond (a Dev not a community manager) and tell us what you are going to do. Don't act like small children's hiding behind your finger!	
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{| class="blockquote"
Over 48 hours and no response. :(
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Nytdragon, on 18 Jul 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:
{| class="blockquote"
Over 48 hours and no response. :(
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Whilst I don't think you should necessarily be getting epics straight away..I think the best approach would be to add a multiplier to the medal say:
 
Bronze - 5% epic chance
Silver - 15% epic chance
Gold - 25% epic chance
 
It may well not be straight forward for them to implement changes after they've changed the loot pooling so we may need to be a bit patient on this one!	
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{| class="blockquote"
Why you are acting like Blizzard? 
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			Did anyone else notice an optimization improvement with this patch? Ever since this patch my client no longer crashes after spending like 30 seconds in Thayd. It's amazing and I can finally roam around freely. Of course my computer still makes me move with some friction but at least I don't crash. Me likey.	
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The changes to medal system brought exactly what I thought they would. Instead of one guaranteed epic for gold run, we now get 3 chances at getting an epic item from instance wide loot table. You don't have to be genius to figure out that 1 x 100% is a lot better than 3x 20%. Anyone coming from WoW 10man raids knows that huge loot tables and limited amount of drops (there are ~40 items per adventure and you get 3 rolls on that table and you can get same item multiple times) means A LOT of trouble.
 
The point about people abandoning runs that failed gold is just rubish btw. People were abandoning failed gold runs because the blues are useless. I'm talking adventures here ofc, because I don't believe we're going to have dungeon gold runs via LFG tool any time soon.
No one needs blues from adventures. The crafted stuff is just better. So instead of abandoning ruined run after 20 mins and having another shot at guaranteed epic quickly, we now get to slog through the whole instance (especially in case of Malgrave or Temple), collect our 3 useless blues and queue again in hope of better RNG.	
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{| class="blockquote"
The changes to medal system brought exactly what I thought they would. Instead of one guaranteed epic for gold run, we now get 3 chances at getting an epic item from instance wide loot table. You don't have to be genius to figure out that 1 x 100% is a lot better than 3x 20%. Anyone coming from WoW 10man raids knows that huge loot tables and limited amount of drops (there are ~40 items per adventure and you get 3 rolls on that table and you can get same item multiple times) means A LOT of trouble.
 
The point about people abandoning runs that failed gold is just rubish btw. People were abandoning failed gold runs because the blues are useless. I'm talking adventures here ofc, because I don't believe we're going to have dungeon gold runs via LFG tool any time soon.
No one needs blues from adventures. The crafted stuff is just better. So instead of abandoning ruined run after 20 mins and having another shot at guaranteed epic quickly, we now get to slog through the whole instance (especially in case of Malgrave or Temple), collect our 3 useless blues and queue again in hope of better RNG.
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{| class="blockquote"
That's not enough time…  I'd say they need to look at data for at least a week. Chill.
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{| class="blockquote"
The changes to medal system brought exactly what I thought they would. Instead of one guaranteed epic for gold run, we now get 3 chances at getting an epic item from instance wide loot table. You don't have to be genius to figure out that 1 x 100% is a lot better than 3x 20%. Anyone coming from WoW 10man raids knows that huge loot tables and limited amount of drops (there are ~40 items per adventure and you get 3 rolls on that table and you can get same item multiple times) means A LOT of trouble.
 
The point about people abandoning runs that failed gold is just rubish btw. People were abandoning failed gold runs because the blues are useless. I'm talking adventures here ofc, because I don't believe we're going to have dungeon gold runs via LFG tool any time soon.
No one needs blues from adventures. The crafted stuff is just better. So instead of abandoning ruined run after 20 mins and having another shot at guaranteed epic quickly, we now get to slog through the whole instance (especially in case of Malgrave or Temple), collect our 3 useless blues and queue again in hope of better RNG.
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{| class="blockquote"
WildStar is bleeding players.... listening is not enough. 
 
Players have been extremely tolerant and patient on the issues... and the issues caused by fixes... and this change was the last straw for them. The devs are pretty active with their PTR and are silent on this topic, as if it's just going to go away.  Unfortunately, the players are.
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			Dang you, Kevin Van Ord! I can't believe it. Your Gamespot score of 7 is becoming more prescient!	
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After playing Archeage for a little while and not having the frustration of endless RNG for gear I have cancelled my Wildstar subscription. I will not resubscribe EVER until the medal system patch is reversed. I encourage ALL players that have cancelled their subscriptions to post it on this forum string to ram home the mistake that Carbine has made.
 
P.S: To the trolls and haters that will post responses such as "good riddance" & "bye, you will not be missed" I thank you for your best wishes, and wish you good luck in your never ending quest to turn Wildstar into the same mediocre, casual XBOX Live Arcade $5 garbage that kept EQ 1 & 2 running with subscriptions 10+ years after release due to other MMOs sucking, and caused WoW to bleed hundreds of thousands of accounts by turning into a Steam-punk Pokemon RPG.	
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			I can say one thing for absolute certainty. If WoW had had to contend with the caliber of spoiled rotten players that have permeated the market today, it would never have made it to Burning Crusade.	
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{| class="blockquote"
In bold and red is the only place I think you made a mistake. Due to the weighting of the different loot tables I don't think you can't just divide by 8. You'd have to do:
 
1 - {[1-0.0625] * [1-(1/40)]^3} = 13.1%
 
I wonder if the two drops from crimelords (I apparently never noticed this one) and malgrave were an accident and this is correcting that mistake. Before it was 23% as you noted but possibly should have been 12.5%.
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{| class="blockquote"
I can say one thing for absolute certainty. If WoW had had to contend with the caliber of spoiled rotten players that have permeated the market today, it would never have made it to Burning Crusade.
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			Brace yourself, casuality is coming.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Right now, there's terrible rng in terms of epic items from veteran adventures. There's 1:40 chance of getting the item you want (assuming all the items have the same drop rate). After that, there's also the random rune slots, where you not only need item to roll with good number of slots, but also with the correct type of slots given your role and class. And let's face it, the way stats work, epic for DPS with 2 earth slots is not going to be upgrade over blue with 4 dps slots. Everyone hates RNG in loot. For me it's borderline acceptable in WoW, especially with justice/valor system helping to overcome crap RNG streaks. Here it's just over the top.
 
However, weren't the medal system changes praised as good thing when they were originally announced? I'm really wondering, how many people complaining here were also praising the system back in the original thread. I'm wondering if they are just unhappy about their sucky RNG or if they are just so terrible at probability calculus that they weren't able to figure out what exactly the changes meant in the first place.
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{| class="blockquote"
Right now, there's terrible rng in terms of epic items from veteran adventures. There's 1:40 chance of getting the item you want (assuming all the items have the same drop rate). After that, there's also the random rune slots, where you not only need item to roll with good number of slots, but also with the correct type of slots given your role and class. And let's face it, the way stats work, epic for DPS with 2 earth slots is not going to be upgrade over blue with 4 dps slots. Everyone hates RNG in loot. For me it's borderline acceptable in WoW, especially with justice/valor system helping to overcome crap RNG streaks. Here it's just over the top.
 
However, weren't the medal system changes praised as good thing when they were originally announced? I'm really wondering, how many people complaining here were also praising the system back in the original thread. I'm wondering if they are just unhappy about their sucky RNG or if they are just so terrible at probability calculus that they weren't able to figure out what exactly the changes meant in the first place.
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You're right Wanabrutbeer... but you forget that that is half the reason I (and many others) signed up for Wildstar and not ESO/Others:
They flaunted the fact that the development team had oodles of MMO experience, and had learned from WoW's vanilla messups.
 
They claimed they knew how to do it. They claimed they were going to be good at the job, and be proactive with user feedback (not that that should need much, because they know what they're doing)
 
They clearly have no clue sometimes, and seem to be messing it up just as much (if not worse) than other MMOs.
I'm happy with bugs on abilities, I'm happy with half the AMPs not being as good as the other half. I'm happy with some classes being out of balance with others. I'm happy with typo's here and there.
I'm not happy with large changes to "progression" that within an hour were obviously clearly not working, nor were ever going to work.
I'm not happy that every time they release a patch they seem to break a whole bunch of other (seemingly unrelated) things. Where the hell is the QA? Code is code. It doesn't change itself. They made the change which broke the code, but seem to be unable to find it sometimes, and other times it takes them days and days to fix it, if they ever do at all (re: optimization problems getting worse for some people)
They claimed they were better than all that, but they're not.
 
You simply cannot compete with WoW/other established MMOs if you're going to make rookie mistakes all the time and refuse to acknowledge them.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I can say one thing for absolute certainty. If WoW had had to contend with the caliber of spoiled rotten players that have permeated the market today, it would never have made it to Burning Crusade.
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			Still have yet to still a single epic drop since this patch. Still terrible.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I ran some dungeons last night finally (thank you DDOS, for nothing happening the night before) which gave some insight into how drops are working.  On a bronze Skullcano run, where we failed the final challenge, we only received two drops, 1 from final boss loot table and 1 from the instance wide loot table.  Now the patch notes make a lot more sense.  The gold and silver medal loot isn't in a loot table of its own and providing an additional drop, its in the loot table of the final boss and the chance for it is in the final boss's drop.  So that 20 item table assumption is out the window, because the silver + gold + boss's old loot = new final boss loot table.  However, that also means that the line about a flat bonus chance to select from the boss's superb list includes the old gold rewards.  So we probably end up with something like this:
 
1 - ((1 - (1/y)) * (1 - (1/x + c))^3)
 
Where x is the total number of items in the instance, y is the total number of items in the old silver table, old gold table, and final boss's old loot table, and c is the constant bonus to purples.
 
Alternatively, we might have something like this (I am almost certain I have this one wrong, its been a while since my statistics class):
 
1 - ((1 - (1/y)) * (1 - ((1 - z) + (z * (1 - 1/t))))^3)
 
Where y is the same, z is the probability of choosing the purple table, and t is the number of purples.  It all depends on how that line, about superb items having a flat bonus chance, was implemented. 
 
Either way, there is something more appealing about these models, because it allows Carbine more control over purple drop rates without them needing to mess with table numbers.  They could probably even hotfix a change in, without a client patch, if they thought it was necessary.
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{| class="blockquote"
*cupcake*the math. Did you get any epics from bronze run?
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			Later All, there are other games more worthy and rewarding for my time. Been fun but it ran out quick. Pitty to my 5 man group was doing well, now 3 of us are leaving with the other 2 uncertain. Best of Luck.	
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I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only person that actually enjoys playing just because I can go pew pew. I mean sure progression is fulfilling, and you need to improve your gear to go pew pew more, and see bigger redder numbers fly up in the air. But I'll be damned if don't just have a damn good time in this game just actually PLAYING it. It's not "jobby" like GW2, it's just FUN. Its the first game I actually ENJOY ALTS. 
 
I feel I'm going to be screwed out of my fun by a gang of early rage quitters, just like SWTOR
 
sigh....I wanna pew pew
 
EDIT - What I'm getting at is.......I don't, and have never with any game, run instances just to grind rep, tokens, gear, or whatever. I run an instance because i wanna *cupcake* shit up for an hour. If I get a drop awesome. If I don't, well maybe next time. And then I have to worry about leets blowhards dropping group on the first wipe, or dropping group when one DPS is a few points shy of Godly, or they pull a mob off the tank ONCE because of their own early burst DPS. Can we just enjoy the mechanics of the game?
 
 
I ECHO the sentiment 
*cupcake* the math!	
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only person that actually enjoys playing just because I can go pew pew. I mean sure progression is fulfilling, and you need to improve your gear to go pew pew more, and see bigger redder numbers fly up in the air. But I'll be damned if don't just have a damn good time in this game just actually PLAYING it. It's not "jobby" like GW2, it's just FUN. Its the first game I actually ENJOY ALTS. 
 
I feel I'm going to be screwed out of my fun by a gang of early rage quitters, just like SWTOR
 
sigh....I wanna pew pew
 
EDIT - What I'm getting at is.......I don't, and have never with any game, run instances just to grind rep, tokens, gear, or whatever. I run an instance because i wanna *cupcake* shit up for an hour. If I get a drop awesome. If I don't, well maybe next time. And then I have to worry about leets blowhards dropping group on the first wipe, or dropping group when one DPS is a few points shy of Godly, or they pull a mob off the tank ONCE because of their own early burst DPS. Can we just enjoy the mechanics of the game?
 
 
I ECHO the sentiment 
*cupcake* the math!
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only person that actually enjoys playing just because I can go pew pew. I mean sure progression is fulfilling, and you need to improve your gear to go pew pew more, and see bigger redder numbers fly up in the air. But I'll be damned if don't just have a damn good time in this game just actually PLAYING it. It's not "jobby" like GW2, it's just FUN. Its the first game I actually ENJOY ALTS. 
 
I feel I'm going to be screwed out of my fun by a gang of early rage quitters, just like SWTOR
 
sigh....I wanna pew pew
 
EDIT - What I'm getting at is.......I don't, and have never with any game, run instances just to grind rep, tokens, gear, or whatever. I run an instance because i wanna *cupcake* shit up for an hour. If I get a drop awesome. If I don't, well maybe next time. And then I have to worry about leets blowhards dropping group on the first wipe, or dropping group when one DPS is a few points shy of Godly, or they pull a mob off the tank ONCE because of their own early burst DPS. Can we just enjoy the mechanics of the game?
 
 
I ECHO the sentiment 
*cupcake* the math!
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{| class="blockquote"
Which is why all they needed to do was drop disband and penalize for disbanding :/
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I'm close to unsubscribing at the end of this cycle. I don't mind grinding, if I know I'm ultimately being rewarded, but this level of RNG in Wildstar doesn't work for me. You can realistically put in hours upon hours of gameplay and have little progress to show for it. These devs still have me wasting my time in Malgrave digging for Trigger Fingers (but I digress).
 
RNG grinding is often just lazy, uninspired game design masquerading behind terms like "hardcore". And now there is more of it. I get the feeling that this decision to change gold drops was to balance their business model (can't have players progressing too quickly through our content!). Someone in corporate was doing calculations on how quickly they expected people to acquire their epics now with Silver and Bronze drops and move on.
 
Eventually there will be an MMO that figures out a business model that is not based around the relentless, random, arbitrary slog of grinding never ending gear in order to retain subs.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I love the game but this stinks as a money move.  There's no reason for them to do this other than pressure for them to make more money.  Not that I'm against them making money but taking away a prize people were used to and then yanking it is simply greedy.  There's no reason to do this other than to create conditions to sell more CREED.  
 
It's like a drug dealer cutting cocaine to make more money.  It's a shady, low-life tactic.
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{| class="blockquote"
sigh....I wanna pew pew
 
EDIT - What I'm getting at is.......I don't, and have never with any game, run instances just to grind rep, tokens, gear, or whatever. I run an instance because i wanna *cupcake* shit up for an hour. If I get a drop awesome. If I don't, well maybe next time.
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{| class="blockquote"
WildStar is bleeding players.... listening is not enough. 
 
Players have been extremely tolerant and patient on the issues... and the issues caused by fixes... and this change was the last straw for them. The devs are pretty active with their PTR and are silent on this topic, as if it's just going to go away.  Unfortunately, the players are.
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{| class="blockquote"
You have a good attitude. The pew pew in this game is fun. It's why people are still around, for now. What also is fun is logging off and knowing you progressed your character in some way, and the level of RNG related to the time and effort committed really blows in Wildstar right now. I can go play Hearth Stone, get totally messed over by RNG, but spend only 15 minutes, maybe grab some gold from a quest completed in the process, open a pack, see a new technique, and move on.
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{| class="blockquote"
Creed appears to be on hiatus at the moment, so I doubt they're part of this conspiracy of yours.
 
Or did you mean CREDD?  How exactly is this going to sell more CREDD?
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{| class="blockquote"
... because there is no "fix it later and folks will come back". SWTOR proved that fact 
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{| class="blockquote"
You're not comparing HearthStone to WildStar, though right? I mean, that's like comparing it to Monopoly. Which incidentally isn't a 15 minute game and those dice can screw you over good...
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{| class="blockquote"
You're not comparing HearthStone to WildStar, though right? I mean, that's like comparing it to Monopoly. Which incidentally isn't a 15 minute game and those dice can screw you over good...
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GJ Carbine, not only is your game getting less and less fun to play because there's nothing to do except stupid adventures and crappy dungeons. You made those even worse. 
 
f2p in 6 months, watch nyour people log in less and less every day this is up and watch subs leave in 3 weeks.
 
I would reroll an alt but your leveling is more boring then your endgame and we all know you only love stalkers and warriors.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I believe his theory is two part:
1. that the only reliable way to get decent gear is to buy it crafted. The quickest way to make money is buy credd n sell it.
2. if you want decent gear the other way, you need to grind grind grind for weeks on end... thus you need to sub to buy the time. = more credd.
 
I disagree that that was a motivating factor, but I think that's the core of his argument.
 
 
With regard to the pew pew'ing
I enjoy it too, I do!
But if I want to pew pew in a game, then I'll buy a normal game for $60, and be able to play it all the time, anytime I want my fix.
If I'm paying a monthly subscription, on top of buying the game, then I want more than just pew pew.
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{| class="blockquote"
Actually, that's a really good point.
 
At least in Monopoly, every time you go round the board you collect $200, which is enough to buy something with.
Imagine playing Monopoly, but every time you go round the board you get $1, and a small chance to randomly gain a property.
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{| class="blockquote"
Imagine having to use 2 dice with 21 sides in Monopoly to roll for whether you get a chance to buy said property
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{| class="blockquote"
Actually, that's a really good point.
 
At least in Monopoly, every time you go round the board you collect $200, which is enough to buy something with.
Imagine playing Monopoly, but every time you go round the board you get $1, and a small chance to randomly gain a property.
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			Still no Dev answer? Devs are listening...yea...	
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{| class="blockquote"
Thank you, someone with brains instead of pointing out aesthetics.  If he's too cynical to understand the meaning despite the mistake, his critical thinking skills is obviously lacking.
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{| class="blockquote"
So tired of the personal attacks these last few days.  Yes, it was a lame joke.  Hopefully you remember it and stop calling it CREED.
 
 
I still don't see how this is forcing people into purchasing CREDD.  Adventure blues aren't mind blowing, but they are sufficient.  Money at level 50 is easy enough to come by once gem capped.  And crafted gear is cheap, especially if you work directly with the crafter thanks to the cheap commodities.
 
Additionally, crafted gear is often superior to the adventure purples, so if your game plan involved crafted gear then you don't care much about the rarity.  And if you were gunning for the purples you probably aren't super concerned about your progression speed and don't mind taking time to farm for your gear.  In both situations, this change doesn't increase the likeliness of someone buying CREDD.
 
 
Why are purples analogous to Go?  Shouldn't they be Free Parking, a rare event with a big payoff (at least in the house rules I used, since Free Parking gives all the tax revenue to whoever lands there)?
 
 
 
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/98869-on-the-recent-loot-changes/
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{| class="blockquote"
So tired of the personal attacks these last few days.  Yes, it was a lame joke.  Hopefully you remember it and stop calling it CREED.
 
I still don't see how this is forcing people into purchasing CREDD.  Adventure blues aren't mind blowing, but they are sufficient.  Money at level 50 is easy enough to come by once gem capped.  And crafted gear is cheap, especially if you work directly with the crafter thanks to the cheap commodities.
 
Additionally, crafted gear is often superior to the adventure purples, so if your game plan involved crafted gear then you don't care much about the rarity.  And if you were gunning for the purples you probably aren't super concerned about your progression speed and don't mind taking time to farm for your gear.  In both situations, this change doesn't increase the likeliness of someone buying CREDD.
 
 
Why are purples analogous to Go?  Shouldn't they be Free Parking, a rare event with a big payoff (at least in the house rules I used, since Free Parking gives all the tax revenue to whoever lands there)?
 
 
 
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/98869-on-the-recent-loot-changes/
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only person that actually enjoys playing just because I can go pew pew. I mean sure progression is fulfilling, and you need to improve your gear to go pew pew more, and see bigger redder numbers fly up in the air. But I'll be damned if don't just have a damn good time in this game just actually PLAYING it.
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Effort = reward. End of discussion.
 
Obviously forced time sink and artificial gating to impede progression is obvious and poor form from Carbine 1 month into release.
Wildstar is the Diablo 3 of MMORPG's. RNG Crafting, looting, runes, adventures and dungeons. You name it RNG is smothered everywhere and now RNG further dictates the amount of time players need to invest to get geared with shitty percentages and medals actually meaning *cupcake*all.
 
You like it then kudos to you, majority of players replying in here and many more in game who don't bother with these one sided fan boy riddled forums cannot comprehend the idiocy behind this loot change.
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			For those of you who may not have seen it, here's a link to the thread where 7ofswords discusses the new loot changes. https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/98869-on-the-recent-loot-changes/	
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't understand the pedestal that people are placing the old loot system on.  Just because the loot was purple didn't make it useful, and the majority of the time you were salvaging it.  The wrong blues isn't much different than a wrong purple.
 
Additionally, that RNG you hate so much works both ways.  Just as bad rune slots can ruin a purple, great rune slots can turn a mediocre blue into an amazing upgrade.  And now that you are getting significantly more loot you are also more likely to see those blues with amazing runeslots.  Any crafter will tell you that RNG is just a numbers game, and the more chances you have the more likely you are to see the rare but amazing result.
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So basically, even after the devs saying "It should be very rare and difficult and long to get purple", people still want to get purple everytime they loot?
And after the devs saying "Blue is sufficent to clear donjons and begin raids", people still want purple in order to raid and donjon?
And even knowing that, people still run adventures, and complain because it is always the same thing, instead of trying to clear donjons and advance to raids?
And then the same people complain because there is no content, but they don't even try to get into raids, because they want absolutely their purple adventure gear?
And they complain about RNG and rune system being crappy, but it's just hard optimization, no even needed to go into Raids?
 
So basically, people make up things and limit themselves, thus don't see the whole game, and complain about things that don't even exists, like the lack of content, or the need of being full purple in order to Donjon/Raid. As for most of the complaints I have seen throught this post, alot has been already aknowledged byt the devs, and should be patched sooner or later...
 
I think the changes only reflects the hardcorness of the game, you know, the reason why you came... And given the time, Wildstar will become the game we all wanted and desired so long... If we don't destroy it ourselves by whining 24/7, and complaining. The devs are listening, and sometimes I feel sad for them, to listen to all the garbage we write...
Just read all these unconstructive posts, where people litterally spits on developpers, and Carbine staff, do you think that's how you'd be wanted to be talked to? Do you think that's how you make things advance?
 
Am I the only one that still loves playing this game? Am I the only patient being in this whole community? Am I the only one to still feel joy and pride when I kill a Donjon boss?
 
I know this post will litterally drown in the flow of complains and already written false statements, but for who cares, just know some people want this game to have succes, and will stay until the last moment, until the last breathe of hope is dead. And it is far frome dying now.	
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{| class="blockquote"
So basically, even after the devs saying "It should be very rare and difficult and long to get purple", people still want to get purple everytime they loot?
And after the devs saying "Blue is sufficent to clear donjons and begin raids", people still want purple in order to raid and donjon?
And even knowing that, people still run adventures, and complain because it is always the same thing, instead of trying to clear donjons and advance to raids?
And then the same people complain because there is no content, but they don't even try to get into raids, because they want absolutely their purple adventure gear?
And they complain about RNG and rune system being crappy, but it's just hard optimization, no even needed to go into Raids?
 
So basically, people make up things and limit themselves, thus don't see the whole game, and complain about things that don't even exists, like the lack of content, or the need of being full purple in order to Donjon/Raid. As for most of the complaints I have seen throught this post, alot has been already aknowledged byt the devs, and should be patched sooner or later...
 
I think the changes only reflects the hardcorness of the game, you know, the reason why you came... And given the time, Wildstar will become the game we all wanted and desired so long... If we don't destroy it ourselves by whining 24/7, and complaining. The devs are listening, and sometimes I feel sad for them, to listen to all the garbage we write...
Just read all these unconstructive posts, where people litterally spits on developpers, and Carbine staff, do you think that's how you'd be wanted to be talked to? Do you think that's how you make things advance?
 
Am I the only one that still loves playing this game? Am I the only patient being in this whole community? Am I the only one to still feel joy and pride when I kill a Donjon boss?
 
I know this post will litterally drown in the flow of complains and already written false statements, but for who cares, just know some people want this game to have succes, and will stay until the last moment, until the last breathe of hope is dead. And it is far frome dying now.
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			Did anyone catch the irony of this where if you were to fail an attunement silver adventure or dungeon, you'd still have people disband the run because it's essentially over.	
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{| class="blockquote"
For those of you who may not have seen it, here's a link to the thread where 7ofswords discusses the new loot changes. https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/98869-on-the-recent-loot-changes/
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{| class="blockquote"
Wildstar is the Diablo 3 of MMORPG's. RNG Crafting, looting, runes, adventures and dungeons. You name it RNG is smothered everywhere and now RNG further dictates the amount of time players need to invest to get geared with shitty percentages and medals actually meaning *cupcake*all.
 
 
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{| class="blockquote"
There, I have to disagree. Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls adressed the major issues concerning the loot and the AH, and is right now a game I enjoy playing a lot. At the moment, Wildstar has more RNG than Diablo 3.
 
*Shivers*
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{| class="blockquote"
That's because the devs don't give a shit about Wildstar.
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			Releasing a game in this state validates they didn't care "needed to get our money" a.s.a.p	
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{| class="blockquote"
well, you can't say that at not even two months from launch. Diablo 3 was really *cupcake*ed up and it took... how long? two years before they finally thrown the messed ah away. 
I don't want to believe that the devs aren't caring about theyr game, but i think they're yust doing the same old problem they always do: they don't talk to the community, they don't share theyr thoughts and projects to adjust the game. And the community respond is always an enraged and delusional one. 
Locked threads and a "no comment" attitude definitely don't help.
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			Diablo 3 as a positive example? lol...	
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Diablo 3 is actually played
By a lot more people than Wildstar
 
But maybe we can use Reaper of Souls as the guiding light and hope Wildstar has their "RoS" where they fix the messes they made with poor design decisions.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Diablo 3 is actually played
By a lot more people than Wildstar
 
But maybe we can use Reaper of Souls as the guiding light and hope Wildstar has their "RoS" where they fix the messes they made with poor design decisions.
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			Spellslinger tanks incoming!	
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Shred should now deal damage as intended. 
Does this mean it was nerfed?	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
Shred should now deal damage as intended. 
Does this mean it was nerfed?
 
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So today I finally said "okay lets try an adventure with a pug", now mind you I said this because of the changes my group has no desire to do adventures because no reason to.  I got Malgrave Trail and lasted for about 10min before I had to leave the group.  Now they don't even care, the healer was off doing what ever not sticking with me as the tank.
 
Thanks Carbine for making my 5man group not want to do Adventures, to the point I had to try and pug and got so pissed in 10 seconds that I left...	
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			Adventure runs has definitely dwindled since the patch on adventures as well as active guild members, just a matter of time before the active subscriptions become inactive. Coincidence? I think not.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Yeah, but Diablo 3 dropped loot left and right.
Here you only get loot from the end of adventures/dungeons; unless of course you get lucky on a trash mob.
Wildstar: Need gear to progress in dungeons/raids.
Diablo: No raids- no "dungeons". Constant loot dropping.
 
/edit I do love Wildstar, but as a customer i'm just not satisfied with how they are ruining thier game.
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			They did.  They're not being driven out fast enough unfortunately as they come and here try to turn this onto world of casuals.  NO!  They have their games, this one is the HARDCORE! crowds.	
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{| class="blockquote"
So today I finally said "okay lets try an adventure with a pug", now mind you I said this because of the changes my group has no desire to do adventures because no reason to.  I got Malgrave Trail and lasted for about 10min before I had to leave the group.  Now they don't even care, the healer was off doing what ever not sticking with me as the tank.
 
Thanks Carbine for making my 5man group not want to do Adventures, to the point I had to try and pug and got so pissed in 10 seconds that I left...
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