Report 294

Report #294
Skillset: Aquamancy Skill: Preserve
 Org: Aquamancers Status: Completed Feb 2010
Furies' Decision:
Preserve time slightly decreased
Problem: Here is how preserve works, you freeze the target to remove fire
protection, freeze again to cause shivering, freeze again until frozen solid,
and preserve when they are solid to make them at half health, then if they are
still half health and frozen solid, you may instantly preserve them. This may
sound simple in theory, but it has been difficult to pull off. Yes, it is
possible to have Aquas to work together, but honestly when you have four or five
aquamancers working towards preserve, they are better off doing other things
like TK or TP. Typically, you can't get the other guilds to assist in pulling
off preserve either because there is no third party message saying the person is
frozen if they are being hit by a monk or warrior poisoned blades. Then there is
a chance they shrug that poison. But if they are frozen, it is easy to just sip
fire and attempt to hinder the mage. Overall, sipping health, reading scroll,
sparkleberry, and other passive cures can block this skill very easily.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Timed kill that works in a deluged room.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: For 2 power, preserve would take the person down two
 levels from being frost resistant to freezing or they
 are normal and bring them down to frozen?
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: Decrease the time to recover equilibrium so that the
 caster can keep up with the fire sipping.
Player Comments:
---[Inagin on 2/17 @ 08:13 writes]:
I don't think it should cost power to chill/freeze the target since it is
basically the equivalent of cast freeze. I don't really have any ideas on how to
fix this ability though.
---[Inagin on 2/17 @ 08:17 writes]:
Oh, and I am saying that assuming solution 1 won't be accepted (since
Aeromancers wanted a timed instant kill and was told no). As for solutions 2 and
3, if it turns out being workable for 1v1, I think it will be OP with more than
one aqua.
---[Jael on 2/18 @ 00:21 writes]:
I agree Preserve is a bit lacking. Some could argue that it isn't practical
under even ideal conditions. However, each of these solutions could be a bit
shaky. Solution #1 is a chasm clone. Solution #2 and #3 may well not fix
anything. The damage dealt by Preserve is largely moot because even if you hit
someone and -almost- kill them (assuming you get them frozen above 50% max
health and then preserve), Aquamancers have a horrible damage output making it
difficult to follow up. A possible way to make it viable without changing the
mechanics of the skill would be to make icefloe give two levels of freeze per
tic. This would make it easier to get a target frozen allowing the Aquamancer
more time to work towards the other condition: the target being under 50% max
health (which honestly for an Aquamancer is no small feat). This skill has two
conditional requirements, both of which are rather difficult to do and cannot be
done together. One of them needs to be made easier, and tweaking Icefloe would
likely have the least out-of-guild repercussions.
---[Romero on 2/20 @ 01:13 writes]:
Preserve was buffed by Desitrus not too long ago when he was Aqua. Its basically
setup so three or four aquas can instakill someone if they know what they are
doing. Apparently no one knows what they are doing.
---[Romero on 2/20 @ 01:14 writes]:
-immediately- being the key forgotten word. Instantly kill immediately with no
setup or problem. Everyone spam the same command at once and win. Preserve needs
no change.
---[Lorina on 2/20 @ 07:29 writes]:
The thing is, that a lot of abilities can instantly kill people in less than a
second. Take telepathy for instance, which is held by four guilds of the basin,
that only takes like 3 TPs with at least two with relatively low skill to pull
off an insta mindburst? But for preserve, from your logic takes two people near
mythical at least to kill someone. While the other two can have freeze, of
course. It is just not a logical insta kill that is being told to perform. Most
combat leaders desire to pull of much, much easier instas.
---[Inagin on 2/20 @ 09:59 writes]:
For reference, Romero was refering to Report #126. In order to pull off an
immediate instant kill, you need four Aquamancers and to rely on your target to
not sip fire or health. Whether this is good or bad for a mythical ability is
debatable. However, if you have one or even two Aquamancers, you will not see
this pulled off. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it won't be because there
are better options (such as telepathy and telekinesis). The way I see it...
removing the immediateness is fine, as long as it becomes viable for a single
Aquamancer to pull it off.
---[Inagin on 2/20 @ 10:03 writes]:
Of course, we have the option of preservechasm! Timed freezing instant kill. I'm
sure no one would complain about such a nerf to immediate preserve, right? Heh.
---[Romero on 2/21 @ 03:19 writes]:
I am okay if I get a skill called Consume that is a timed instakill akin to
judge. After all sacrifice is near impossible in groups with even the slightest
bit of hindering/gusting out the crucifier. Not like preserve has this
requirement. But seriously, I read it on the forums and its possible that freeze
levels wouldn't hurt so bad.
---[Viynain on 2/21 @ 08:20 writes]:
Though I might find it curious that folk perceive Sacrifice of all things to be
'near impossible' to pull off in a group and attempt to downplay shrivel's low,
low cost (which, curiously enough, builds up to that same kill condition), I do
echo the sentiment that Preserve, as a whole, is a painfully weak instakill
considering the freeze requirement isn't exactly aided by the skillset as much
as other melds do. Unless that bit someone mentioned earlier occurred to make it
so that IceFloe afflicted with 2 levels of freeze instead of its current 1 and
that dragonturtle's breath attack were made to afflict with a level of cold too
(no idea why it doesn't since the phoenix and thunderbirds do), all the other
suggestions would just make the ability a veritable clone of others in
existence.
---[Xenthos on 2/21 @ 15:22 writes]:
Wasn't icefloe changed a while back to do 2 levels of freeze if you have fire up
(so it will drop you from protected by fire to shivering in one go)? I seem to
recall that being envoyed ages ago. Maybe it didn't actually go in?
---[Inagin on 2/21 @ 17:07 writes]:
Nope, icefloe only gives one level of freeze. The old change (Report #126) was
that preserve strips fire and gives shivering if they have fire up.
---[Inagin on 2/21 @ 17:11 writes]:
What Viynain suggested is good and balanced for one or two Aquamancers. With
more than that, though, it might be a little overwhelming if timed correctly.
Perhaps make the power cost a bit higher, like 0/5 or 0/6. 0 for freezing
levels, 5 or 6 after frozen.
---[Viynain on 2/22 @ 19:09 writes]:
Balancing around group mechanics is always an iffy thing, and the suggestion I
wrote wouldn't vary much at all from any group instakills currently possible,
I'd think.
---[Fillin on 2/23 @ 16:21 writes]:
One thought might be to re-order needlerain and icefloe, so that if they are
timed to tick together, needlerain will always hit before icefloe. That means
once all the other elemental defenses are stripped, needlerain will strip fire
every round. Throw in some beast spit mactans (or turtle freeze if they get
that) and you might have something.
---[Viynain on 2/24 @ 20:00 writes]:
The turtle afflicting directly with freeze rather than mactans would be better,
I think. Shrugging possibilities and all versus just a direct affliction.