Report 158

Report #158
Skillset: Necromancy Skill: Shrivel
 Org: Nihilists Status: Completed Mar 2009
Furies' Decision:
We will change the following - sacrifice will only be doable by the crucifier.
Shrivel will be 0p only if it is your crucifix.
Problem: Sacrifice is one of the most costly instakills within the game and is
the bread and butter of a Necromancer's offense. However, given its power cost
with the necessary buildups that are required, contagion, ectoplasm, deathmark,
crucify, two shrivels, and sacrifice (given that none are cured or failed,
deathmark doesn't drop, contagion doesn't fall) will cost you 17p without
scourge which is deemed a must (making it 27p). Should you ectoplasm, crucify,
and use shrivel twice, you are left with no power and will need to recover 3p in
order to sacrifice (16-24 seconds given a lucky tick and not even possible for a
non-trans discipline user).Shrivel will also still cost power and equilibrium
when all limbs are broken causing the Nihilist to waste valuable time and more
power in such a delicate kill method.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Cause shrivel to cost no power on a given crucified
 target. This will make the cost of ectoplasm+crucify
 cost 8p and still require the Necromancer to regen 1
 (2 if the ectoplasm is cured the first time as it
 usually is) to still get the sacrifice. Also cause a
 target with fully broken limbs to generate a new
 message to the Necromancer with a reduced cost of eq
 and power on shrivel to let them know they are ready
 to be sacrificed. Shrivel will still cost power if
 the target is not crucified.
Player Comments:
---[Shuyin on 3/6 @ 08:09 writes]:
If building up to sacrifice requires so much work, it shouldn't be much of a
stretch to deathmark sense or whatever (the one that diagnoses your target) in
order to figure out whether they've got the required broken limbs or not. I'm
still deciding on the first part. Also isn't single ecto free?
---[Shuyin on 3/6 @ 08:09 writes]:
Wait nvm, single is 1p apparently, my bad
---[Viynain on 3/7 @ 01:16 writes]:
'Also cause a target with fully broken limbs to generate a new message to the
Necromancer with a reduced cost of eq and power on shrivel to let them know they
are ready to be sacrificed.' Doesn't DeathMark already show the diagnosis of the
target with the mark? If so, I don't see the point of adding this mechanic in,
unless I'm missing something.
---[Nydekion on 3/7 @ 02:53 writes]:
Having shrivel cost no power at all would be excessive, but it's likely fair for
it to not use power if the target has 4 broken limbs with a slightly reduced
(but not eliminated) equilibrium cost.
---[Shuyin on 3/7 @ 11:35 writes]:
I agree with Nydekion
---[Nejii on 3/9 @ 02:34 writes]:
Same as Nydekion and Shuyin. Crucify certainly doesn't need any upgrades,
particularly since you're counting the power cost of things like contagion and
ignoring the fact the cross breaks limbs by itself and you can just keep them up
there in your analysis, but not punishing mistakes like that with a power cost
is ok. Although absolve and toadcurse should get similar treatment in that case.
---[Romero on 3/13 @ 20:43 writes]:
Deathmark fades over time, even at full mark (15 marks), it will drop after 5
minutes in a fight so if the fight is drawn on, you could lose it entirely.
Also, the format of such is like a diagnose, so you have a messy, four line
thing to scan for in a mess of other text and afflictions. Even if that is not
the case, we are still talking an instakill that costs at minimum 14p (not
counting contagion there but just ectoplasm, deathmark, crucify, shrivel,
shrivel) and needs at least scourge and contagion to be truly counted on which
is another 13p. Given the need for timing on this kill, waiting on power regen
on top of eq regains or hindering you may face is just beyond reasonable for a
kill that is so focused for the class. Removing the power cost on shrivel will
go a long way to balancing this out.
---[Ceren on 3/14 @ 04:03 writes]:
First of all, diagnose output being hard to read is not a good argument in a
world where virtually everyone has a trigger system. With deathmark being
available there's little reason to have a lower equilibrium cost for waste
shrivel, especially when almost all skills have a similar penalty for such
waste.
---[Ceren on 3/14 @ 04:18 writes]:
That said, I think sacrifice gets a bad reputation for the situations where it
can be pulled off with blinding speed in group combat, most particularly
following a tumble with two or more necromancers in the room. However, it's a
whole different story 1v1 where you simply don't have nearly the affliction
firepower to pull it off in the same thoughtless manner you see it in group
combat. You instead rely on careful planning, precise timing, lengthy
preparation, and when all is said and done a wide range of luck based factors.
And this is where shrivel comes in; even after you managed to go through the
whole setup in spite of hindrance (because there are indeed small windows of
opportunity where a single, careful web will ruin the damn thing and make the
Nihilist have to re-scourge for 10p, leaving you safe for at least 80 seconds or
more depending on what power level the Nihilist was at when he was foiled), you
can be left with literally 20 seconds or more (depending on how much power you
used pre-crucify) before you have the power back to claim your kill, and every
round of scabies/epilepsy is a chance for your luck to fail you.
---[Ceren on 3/14 @ 04:26 writes]:
What I'm saying is, the sacrifice you see in group combat that makes you want to
punch your computer isn't the same sacrifice you see 1v1, and the 1v1 sacrifice
is the one for which the shrivel buff is needed. I actually tried to get a
similar buff through on the Necromancy report, but it was rejected because of
concerns that it would be too strong of hindering in non-sacrifice situations
(such as with quickening). I'm happy to see that Romero has found a solution for
that by requiring the target to be crucified for shrivel to be 0 power. Now you
might ask, "Even if this is needed for 1v1, so what? It's not like we can rule
out group combat." However, I am pretty confident that this change will have
very little impact on the notorious team sacrifice, because when you're
sacrificing with a partner or team, power is almost never an issue since you
divide the cost between the participants anyway.
---[Ceren on 3/14 @ 04:28 writes]:
In case it wasn't clear in that mess, I support shrivel being 0p on a crucified
target, but it should still have the full eq cost if it's a wasted shrivel.
---[Nydekion on 3/18 @ 18:12 writes]:
An alternative to address group issues would be to have sacrifice only be
possible on the person who initiated the crucify. This should alleviate some
concerns in a group while still addressing the change. Though, this is only if a
change to a shrivel is deemed necessary at all.
---[Shuyin on 3/19 @ 19:05 writes]:
Since Nydekion mentioned it, I also support sacrifice only working on people you
personally crucified, minor change but every little bit helps
---[Viynain on 3/26 @ 06:49 writes]:
Likewise, I would not have any problem with a change to make Sacrifice only
doable on a target crucified by the same Necromancer attempting the Sacrifice as
well.
---[Nejii on 3/29 @ 02:51 writes]:
Doesn't sacrifice already have that quality? I thought it did. Not much use.