Report 486

Report #486
Skillset: Skill: SummonResistance
 Org: Geomancers Status: Completed Jan 2011
Furies' Decision:
Some resistance added back in assuming size 12 for everyone.
Problem: Same problem as report 397. It's still not enough.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Make size affect summon resistance once more, but
 take only true size into account rather than size
 modified by shrink/expand/enlarge/diminish
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Add an innate 15% summon resistance to everyone.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: Make the quicksilver defense grant 25% summon
 resistance.
Player Comments:
---[Prav on 1/15 @ 21:30 writes]:
I suppose I support solution 2 or 3. However, the problem with Summon Resistance
is that it's a defense that should be handled in a binary manner. You should be
certain that you will resist the next summon against you or you should be
certain that you are not protected. Since summon resistance is a non-binary
defense that protects against one of the most critical aspects of combat -
mainly, positioning and territory advantage - it disqualifies a lot of possible
strategy. What I would like to see are things like Malkuth, Red, etc. changed to
one-time definite summon resistances, similar to timeslip, that are enchantable
on items and require balance and equilibrium to use or evoke but do not consume
either balance or equilibrium.
---[Raeri on 1/16 @ 00:57 writes]:
Solution 1. Makes sense that naturally large races are harder to move. I don't
really like the idea Prav put up, simply because there is nothing stopping a
person from just triggering summoning lines to put it up again.
---[Talan on 1/16 @ 03:06 writes]:
Given that my guild's spec race natural size is 3 - big surprise - I would
really hate solution 1. As far as changing the general setup to one-off
summoning resist things, no thanks as well - in groups this would just lead us
back to effectively having no resistance (first man strips, second summons).
Solution 2, if you please.
---[Ixion on 1/16 @ 08:06 writes]:
Solution 2 would be my preferred one
---[Janalon on 1/16 @ 11:44 writes]:
Solution 2 for reasons stated by Talan.
---[Solanis on 1/16 @ 21:57 writes]:
I prefer innate resistance too, Sol 2.
---[Raeri on 1/17 @ 00:28 writes]:
I was assuming that Solution 1 incorporated a flat summon resist to everyone
(10-15%) which was then increased by size.
---[Nydekion on 1/17 @ 18:54 writes]:
Support for solution 1 with each size point giving 1% additional resistance. I
think when size was originally divorced from summon resistance, this balancing
mechanism for races was lost. Solution 1 would do well to replace that (and give
more reason to play the larger races) without approaching the undesireable
situation where large size granted near-immunity to forced movement again. A
flat summon resistance in addition to that would be unnecessary.
---[Inagin on 1/19 @ 04:28 writes]:
Strongly support Solution #1 with the old summon resistance formula. This would
make racial differences more meaningful and balanced again. If Solution #1 is
accepted, other abilities that grant summon resistance (like Red and Malkuth)
can even be toned down a bit.
---[Xenthos on 1/20 @ 22:21 writes]:
Solution one doesn't help in that it leaves some people / organizations with the
full brunt of the current problem while fixing it for others. In essence it is
trying to create a disparity. For that reason, solution two.
---[Raeri on 1/20 @ 23:25 writes]:
Hence my suggestion that everyone gets a flat 10, then each size point ups it a
bit further. That way the current problem is essentially fixed for everyone, but
the bigger races get some more incentive to be played.
---[Inagin on 1/21 @ 22:09 writes]:
There is supposed to be a disparity between the races. Sizes are one of the
statistics that races are balanced against. When everyone started becoming
Titans and Demigods, everyone expanded to size 25 with massive summon
resistance. That sort of threw a lot of the racial balance out the window. It
should have been fixed by checking true racial sizes, per Solution #1, long ago.
Solution #1 would be ideal.
---[Nydekion on 1/22 @ 02:50 writes]:
It ends up being a very careful balance otherwise we end up with the situation
we had previously where essentially anyone who put in the effort (ie. bashed to
titan) could be essentially immune to any forced movement or summoning which
ended up making any forced movement skill essentially useless. Small, measured
changes in this area tend to be a better solution as report 397 already
essentially added a good chunk of summon resistance to everyone. The 4-18%
additional summon resistance with the average settling around a 12% gain that
would be put on top of that with solution 1 (if each point in size added 1% of
resistance) would most likely put summon resistance to exactly where it needs to
be. As far as organizations with smaller spec races, much of it is already
addressed in skillsets giving additional summon resistance/general evasiveness
or racial abilities that allow for some form of escape.
---[Xenthos on 1/22 @ 04:17 writes]:
I'm not sure where in Crow, for example, you've got increased summon resistance.
Or in Tracking. Races were just rebalanced (again) without summon resistance
being part of the equation. I do not feel that you can just go, "Oh, let's give
these races enhanced summon resist but not those others" at this point.
---[Ixion on 1/22 @ 12:15 writes]:
While a nice idea, races shouldn't be married to summon resistances. There are
just too many racial variations to balance. Some classes would have near none,
some would have a truckload, and the rationale would be because of a race's
size? Org spec races would be better or worse from this so org A would be
inclined to have more res than org B? Some of you may remember how insane it was
before when it was size related. In fact that
---[Ixion on 1/22 @ 12:17 writes]:
's a reason why it needed to be removed in the first place- too large of a
disparity. Soln 1 thought ahead and mentioned true size only, which maybe I
could get behind, but still prefer soln 2
---[Inagin on 1/23 @ 21:35 writes]:
Ixion, you're wrong. It was removed because summon resistance was checking sizes
of those that were expanded. Everyone was size 25 and had basically close to
100% resistance. It had nothing to do with "too large of a disparity." If summon
resistance was checking racial sizes back then, instead of shrinked/expanded
sizes, it likely would not have been removed at all.
---[Xenthos on 1/28 @ 00:16 writes]:
But it would have been taken into consideration during the recent racial revamp.
---[Solanis on 1/31 @ 11:04 writes]:
As people have said before, I am against summon resistance being dependent on
true size due to the recent racial revamp not taking size into consideration for
balance.