Report 95

Report #95
Skillset: Druidry Skill: Pathtwist
 Org: Ebonguard Status: Completed Dec 2008
Furies' Decision:
We'll make it not trigger on elevation movements. We also are going to change
Pathtwist to prevent use at Avatars.
Problem: Currently Pathtwist fires on climbing up / climbing down, which does
not actually involve walking along a path. Further, given the need to climb
down to avoid things like Sap, there is little way to avoid this.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Pathtwist should not fire upon climbing up / moving
 down. It could, however, fire on some of the other
 movements that DO use paths (instead of just
 directions, it could also fire on Tumble/Leap for
 example).
Player Comments:
---[Gregori on 11/28 @ 19:28 writes]:
Rad runes, or any -forced- movement of any kind does not trigger pathtwist. This
has been fully tested. Only movement you issue yourself causes pathtwist to
fire.
---[Gregori on 11/28 @ 20:12 writes]:
I have to wonder if this was tested at all before the suggestion was made. In
testing with Dylara; Bond Unite didn't set off Pathtwist. Teleport didn't set
off Pathtwist. Rad rune has never set off Pathtwist (This one keeps coming up
and keeps being proven that it doesn't happen). I can't easily test Crow Track,
but I am betting it also doesn't set off Pathtwist.
---[Gregori on 11/28 @ 20:31 writes]:
Testing with Talan; Shadowdance Flight did not set off Pathtwist once. Sprint
did not set off Pathtwist once.
---[Gregori on 11/28 @ 21:12 writes]:
Testing with Iasmos; Tumble did not set off pathtwist once. Leap did not set off
pathtwist once. There are apparently numerous ways to bypass pathtwist and I
don't see climbing up and climbing down as needed to be removed from the few
things that apparently do set off pathtwist. If proof is provided that these
things are setting off pathtwist and my testing numerous methods with various
people are giving false results I may change my opinion to this suggestion.
---[Gregori on 11/28 @ 21:18 writes]:
Actually on rethinking, if all conscious movement is made to affect pathtwist,
i.e tumbling, sprinting, leaping... then I am fine with climb up and climb down
being made to not set off pathtwist.
---[Gregori on 12/1 @ 17:50 writes]:
I am fine with this change, ---as long as---, things like tumble, leap, sprint
are put into the list of what will set off pathtwist. Otherwise, I am against
the change as even the arguement for it is a misleading arguement, in that if
you are avoiding sap, you have more effectively evaded it by climbing down and
being pulled through a path away from the sapping druid, and if the druid wasn't
there trying to sap you, you were not avoiding sap to begin with and just got
pulled through a path as though you walked. Applying "reality" to "fantasy"
doesn't cut it as an arguement, or else we will have to start removing a whole
lot of skills in Lusternia.
---[Xenthos on 12/3 @ 02:17 writes]:
"You have more effectively evaded it by climbing down and being pulled through a
path away from the sapping druid"-- and toward, say, an aggressive Supermob that
will instakill you instead? I don't mind those things being included, but
saying that pathtwist in that case is beneficial is untrue. Someone moving
further into your demesne is always helpful to you, because if they climbed down
they were already unsappable. And it's that much more time before they're able
to tumble out if they end up needing to.
---[Gregori on 12/8 @ 20:09 writes]:
You are making a case that pathtwist is only ever used to go to Smobs. This is
completely untrue. In fact, most of my use of pathtwist is nowhere near an Smob
and being taken away from the druid, be it "further" into the demesne or not
which is again arguable as nothing but a semantic, is still being taken away
from the druid and there is little to fear from a demesne of any kind without
someone in the room to make use of the effects hitting you. So yes, Pathtwist
can be used to take you to a dangerous situation it can also save the person,
much like treelife itself could. Nor did I say pathtwist taking you to an Smob
is beneficial as an escape.
---[Xenthos on 12/10 @ 23:08 writes]:
Sure, you can argue it as a semantic if you want, but it's pretty obvious that
being deeper in the demesne is harder to get out of (briars, further time to
tumble if you're fighting the Druid and need to get out that way, etc).
Further, you have the choice to use Pathtwist. You choose to use it in areas
where Supermobs are located, with the center at a Supermob. You choose to use
it in other areas... when it gives you a tactical advantage to do so. The mere
fact that you use it seems to indicate you don't agree with your stated
comments-- you wouldn't do so if it didn't give you, on the whole, more of an
edge than it costs you. Especially since using it in Ethereal Serenwilde to
Supermobs costs you nothing.
---[Xenthos on 12/10 @ 23:10 writes]:
As a clarification, that is "costs you nothing in terms of that edge."
---[Krellan on 12/23 @ 07:48 writes]:
I'd like to comment that I personally experienced pathtwist firing on leap and
sprinting yesterday. I was having silly druid battles with Lehki and thought I'd
try it out since I heard about Gregori's tests. They do in fact trigger
pathtwist. I'm led to believe that the code triggers all forms of physical
movement and does not trigger on magical movement which is why teleport, flight,
ectera, ectera do not trigger it according to Gregori
---[Shuyin on 12/23 @ 08:46 writes]:
I'd be fine with it not triggering on climb down/up, so long as it triggers on
all other natural movements
---[Gregori on 12/23 @ 22:04 writes]:
Various other movement skills that had been previously tested are now proccing
pathtwist so I have no issue with climb up/down being changed to not proc it
---[Ceren on 12/25 @ 04:20 writes]:
This won't address the imbalance of giving 1 demesne guild of 4 a limited, yet
passive and groupwide form of demesne summon, a skill that caused a huge amount
of problems for group combat. And no, the % chance thing doesn't justify it,
just as it wouldn't justify giving cudgel a 1% chance to instakill you. If it
were up to me, this skill would be completely changed in scope to a regular
affliction demesne effect, but oh well, this is a start.
---[Krellan on 12/25 @ 09:53 writes]:
I have a question. Can this trigger on forced movements such as gust, tackle,
charge, barge, squall, rad? I'd imagine it does work for things such as tackle,
barge, charge, gust perhaps. Things like this would force me to agree with
Ceren. The very large majority of fights is in groups. There are almost no 1v1
fights outside of Arena. Even the ones outside of the Arena do not last long as
groups can interfere. I heard Sarrasri and Thoros had a small 1v1 in the middle
of a Domoth battle. Passive demesne summon is going to need more changes
altogether if not just scrapping the whole ordeal. Proper melds -force- opposing
teams to pass through the demesne and seeing as pathtwist can passively fire
upon all forms of physical movements, there is nothing to stop that. A bandaid
fix would be to make it blocked by protection scroll, but even that will only
fix it for so long especially as I also agree that druids have a need for a
protection scroll stripping ability that I think is in another report.
---[Nejii on 12/28 @ 10:01 writes]:
It sounds like you guys just don't think the ability should exist in a usable
form at all. Replacing it would be better than crippling it in that scenario
(I'm not saying this change alone would cripple it, more looking at the "going
to need more changes altogether" comment.) Also, no it does not work on forced
movement, or didn't before anyway.
---[Xenthos on 12/29 @ 01:05 writes]:
Well, things like "fade when the caster dies" (which all other demesne effects
have to my knowledge, I've no idea why this one doesn't) would not prevent it
from being usable, and I think that's the sort of thing that his comment was
aiming at.
---[Gregori on 12/30 @ 05:21 writes]:
This is not a "true" demesne effect. In fact you don't even use the Demesne
syntax with it. It is an effect that can be cast only in a demesne, that is all.
Fading on death means remove the power cost of it. If you want to treat it like
a demesne effect, in such a manner.
---[Steingrim on 12/31 @ 15:49 writes]:
1 seems better. Illusion detection is too specialized to hide it completely IMO
---[Steingrim on 12/31 @ 15:50 writes]:
Ignore above