147565-wildstar-not-for-this-average-player-either

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Well, I'm finally quitting as well.  I've been playing for over a year and gave a good try to almost everything. I find certain aspects of the game very fun and others not fun at all.
 
Things I loved: housing, community, art-style, Halloween event, combat(when leveling), story.
 
Things I hated:  dungeons, vet dungeons, unforgiving boss encounters, one shot abilities, being unable to complete the vet dungeon run 80% of the time.
 
There's just too much stuff to watch out for, too many telegraphs everywhere, have to watch out for mobs casts and as well as animations, too ping/lag dependent.  FFXIV has bosses where there's lots of red you need to run out of but it feels much less chaotic than WS does. Having both multiple telegraphs bosses AND telegraph based combat perhaps isn't the best idea. FFXIV had bosses with telegraphs but combat is tab target and this arrangement works much better in dungeons/raids, I think.
 
 I'm done tinkering with housing and playing the Auction house/CE. In many other games I can do the same things(alas housing isn't as great as here) AND be able to do vet dungeons/raids etc...
 
I will always remember my cute Aurin and my house with a pretty garden :wub: .
 
So long and thanks for all the cupcakes!	
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And you'd be totally capable of doing dungeons here as well if you'd find a solid group of people to teach you. I've seen folks of all sorts of level of play and not a single one so far has been unable to improve their ability to a level where they could do endgame PvE content. I'm sorry to hear you did not have an environment available to you to be able to achieve this.
 
Good luck in your future MMO endeavours.	
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			Can i get your stuff??	
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Sad to hear that, but with F2P, you can always come back if you want to as well. Never have to say goodbye to your little pink fluffball! 
 
Heck, just mess with housing once in a while. 
 
But, can understand the frustrations, there isn't enough to really do to keep the grind worth it at times. 
 
Best of luck, and maybe see you back around in the future!	
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But, can understand the frustrations, there isn't enough to really do to keep the grind worth it at times.
 
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This is where I'm at a loss. I don't consider myself special or better than average, but vet dungeons are the most fun I've had in a game in a loooong time. The reasons for failure in my case have always been super apparent and easy to learn from. I just don't see the point in playing a game where you can't lose and I'm not a big fan of interactive loot pinatas.
 
Of course I'm not saying you are right or wrong, and it definitely seems to be the trend in gaming communities overall to want things easier. I'm just scared because if they make it much easier than it already is I'll have no reason to keep playing but by the same token if I'm the only one in the world who enjoys the mechanics then I couldn't fault them for it from a business perspective.
 
ugh I'm sad :/
 
Whatever you choose to do, I wish you well.
			
				
	Edited November 27, 2015 by Frosthaven	
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			But, they also exhausted the only other things to do...housing and farming mats. Outside of the repetitive wheel of Vet instances, the last new one being 6+ months ago (if I remember right), what else is there?	
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			Game to hard	
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But, they also exhausted the only other things to do...housing and farming mats. Outside of the repetitive wheel of Vet instances, the last new one being 6+ months ago (if I remember right), what else is there?
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Game to hard
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Well, I'm finally quitting as well.  I've been playing for over a year and gave a good try to almost everything. I find certain aspects of the game very fun and others not fun at all.
 
Things I loved: housing, community, art-style, Halloween event, combat(when leveling), story.
Things I hated:  dungeons, vet dungeons, unforgiving boss encounters, one shot abilities, being unable to complete the vet dungeon run 80% of the time.
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Sorry the game feels too hard. Everybody is capable of getting better and doing the content, it just depends on if you're willing to accept the fact that you need to practice and get better, and whether or not you actually put that effort in.
 
I grew up playing really difficult games, getting my ass handed to me by them and by players better than me, and steadily getting better. Because I knew even if I lose at first, the game's still fun, and I still want to improve. Multiplayer Gaming is just like any other competitive hobby or sport. If you get beaten at Chess or Basketball, there's no reason to say "it's too hard, I quit!", you're supposed to find someone to teach you, or just improve on your own.	
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Pretty much this. Who could possibly spend 10 minutes on a boss, trying to use his brain and figuring out how a fight works? That's way too much effort ...
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You can make light of this all you want but that doesn't change the fact that a ton of people find the content too hard. This has been brought up numerous times, both by people who love the game, and those who have said "F it, I quit!" The fact is, the game's difficulty level is having a negative impact on player retention, and therefore, profitability. End of story. 
 
Also there is this:
 
http://www.wildstarcore.net/dungeons-hard-poll-results-revealed/
 
Remember, just because you like a certain type of content, doesn't mean that it is what will make this game profitable and keep NC Soft from pulling the plug on it. Telling people to suck it up and "practice and get better" isn't going to help retain players and put money in the bank for NC Soft.
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Remember, just because you like a certain type of content, doesn't mean that it is what will make this game profitable and keep NC Soft from pulling the plug on it. Telling people to suck it up and "practice and get better" isn't going to help retain players and put money in the bank for NC Soft.
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			No point in insulting the OP. Not everyone is up to the same gear ilvl and practice for Veteran Dungeons. If you're not having fun there is no reason to continue playing the game. It's meant to be a limited time virtual hobby. Plenty of other games on the market right now.
			
				
	Edited November 27, 2015 by CheetosMascot TM	
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You can make light of this all you want but that doesn't change the fact that a ton of people find the content too hard. This has been brought up numerous times, both by people who love the game, and those who have said "F it, I quit!" The fact is, the game's difficulty level is having a negative impact on player retention, and therefore, profitability. End of story. 
 
Also there is this:
 
http://www.wildstarcore.net/dungeons-hard-poll-results-revealed/
 
Remember, just because you like a certain type of content, doesn't mean that it is what will make this game profitable and keep NC Soft from pulling the plug on it. Telling people to suck it up and "practice and get better" isn't going to help retain players and put money in the bank for NC Soft.
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I'm really curious about the ones that have hard time in vet dungeons.  How are they having a hard time?  Is it because the poeple aren't geared to do it?  Is it geared and just hard to deal with stuff.  Not understanding game mechanics such as interupts and not interupting?  
 
Yes, the game can be difficult if you don't play proberly.	
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Read your own article, though.
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Why not simply change the name of "Veteran" dungeons to "Hard" level dungeons so brand new 50's won't be surprised when they get their asses handed to them in there? Have them labeled in red with a warning as well. 
 
I think there would be much less cries of difficulty issues if it clearly states it's Hard mode.	
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Why not simply change the name of "Veteran" dungeons to "Hard" level dungeons so brand new 50's won't be surprised when they get their asses handed to them in there? Have them labeled in red with a warning as well.
 
I think there would be much less cries of difficulty issues if it clearly states it's Hard mode.
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, too ping/lag dependent. 
 
 
FFXIV has bosses where there's lots of red you need to run out of but it feels much less chaotic than WS does. Having both multiple telegraphs bosses AND telegraph based combat perhaps isn't the best idea. FFXIV had bosses with telegraphs but combat is tab target and this arrangement works much better in dungeons/raids, I think.
 
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See thats the problem. FFXIV was made for people who never touched an MMO before. The endgame bosses were literally made so the new player can beat them. Wildstar doesn't. And that is one thing Wildstar did right, the content is not made for the average player.
 
Tab targetting based combat is old as *cupcake* and Wildstar did it right. I'm sorry you couldnt hold on to it and practice enough to be better at it
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			What exactly is your definition of "average"? It could encompass everything under the sun, depending on which demographic you ask.	
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I highlighted the problem for you. You're not going to make money, nor keep players by targeting ultra hardcore.
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Bad player comes to a hard game and cries that its hard. I went to KFC and cried when they had no streak because you know #Logic
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Well, I'm finally quitting as well.  I've been playing for over a year and gave a good try to almost everything. I find certain aspects of the game very fun and others not fun at all.
 
Things I loved: housing, community, art-style, Halloween event, combat(when leveling), story.
 
Things I hated:  dungeons, vet dungeons, unforgiving boss encounters, one shot abilities, being unable to complete the vet dungeon run 80% of the time.
 
There's just too much stuff to watch out for, too many telegraphs everywhere, have to watch out for mobs casts and as well as animations, too ping/lag dependent.  FFXIV has bosses where there's lots of red you need to run out of but it feels much less chaotic than WS does. Having both multiple telegraphs bosses AND telegraph based combat perhaps isn't the best idea. FFXIV had bosses with telegraphs but combat is tab target and this arrangement works much better in dungeons/raids, I think.
 
 I'm done tinkering with housing and playing the Auction house/CE. In many other games I can do the same things(alas housing isn't as great as here) AND be able to do vet dungeons/raids etc...
 
I will always remember my cute Aurin and my house with a pretty garden :wub: .
 
So long and thanks for all the cupcakes!
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 such niche tastes even survive?
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You said it yourself. Its niche so that implies the audience is not that big, but having the audience separated for dumb reasons is the problem. If your solution to your "problem" is making everything slow and easy to digest so noobs can react in time and they dont die to a telegraph on the *cupcake*ing ground then please stop typing. If you want the game changed to be easier, then its clear you wanna play it, but you dont want to try and get better at it. 
 
Almost every good player in Wildstar started blowing *cupcake*ing dogshit and  Isay almost because its not always the case, there is sometimes that special snowflake that is a 3000 apm japanese 13 year old genius and was born to be good at games
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If the current market in which casual spoonfeeding slow games are the only ones that suceed and every other game that tries to be challenging and extremely rewarding that treats the player like an actual thinking human being that breaths through its nose just fails, then it's time to kill myself. No point in living if I can't do shit on my own without having somebody holding my hand through 
 
I guess its time to pull the plub Carbine, I'd be lying if I said you did what you could because you didn't, but man did you made a good *cupcake*ing game. 
			
				
	Edited November 28, 2015 by Hazz Rang	
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I highlighted the problem for you. You're not going to make money, nor keep players by targeting ultra hardcore.
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the problem is that we're not KFC. We're an obscure restaurant, not in France, that serves frog legs. The concern is - can this restaurant with such niche tastes even survive?
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I play a hard MMO because i wanted a challenge. My bad for picking the correct game over you picking the wrong one
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I also enjoy hard MMOs. The question is whether enough people are prepared to pay into this hard MMO to keep it going, I don't think anyone is suggesting you made a mistake, just that the game you enjoy might struggle to be financially viable in the way you enjoy it.
 
Personally I hope the game broadens enough to accomodate more players. 10 Man LFR would be a nice start, but please leave the hard stuff in there.
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You said it yourself. Its niche so that implies the audience is not that big, but having the audience separated for dumb reasons is the problem. 
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Even in WotLK, at the height of WoW's popularity, only 2% of guilds had beaten ICC25 within a year of its release.
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So it was popular and had the sub numbers even though not everyone had done all the content.
 
I think this is evidence you can in fact make content that not everyone clears and still have a popular game.
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You can! The problem is, you need to make stuff for the other 98% that doesn't do that stuff. How much was in WoW at the time of WotLK? I'm gonna bet way more to do than WS has...of course, different points in the development cycle too, but the point remains. You can, and should, have super hard content, but that shouldn't all you focus on.
 
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There is a TON of non raid content in this game. The only thing I can remember WotLK having that this game does not is Wintergrasp. But this game has expeditions and adventures, which were not in WotLK.
 
Edit: yes, there was 10 man raiding, but Naxx 10 wasn't any more casual than GA in this game. You'd still raid on a schedule with a dedicated group.
			
				
	Edited November 29, 2015 by SlyJeff	
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You can! The problem is, you need to make stuff for the other 98% that doesn't do that stuff.
 
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How much raiding content has been added?
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So it was popular and had the sub numbers even though not everyone had done all the content.
I think this is evidence you can in fact make content that not everyone clears and still have a popular game.
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Is this 2008-2010, when WotLK was out? No? Then here's all the things you need to compete with above and beyond what WoW had to compete with at the time:
 
FFXIV, SWTOR, Tera, GW2, ESO, Rift, TSW, Neverwinter, DCUO...
and, of course, WoW. :rolleyes:
 
 
OK, look, I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.
WotLK had 11 classes you could play--one of which was only unlocked by getting another character up past level 55 to encourage people to make alts--up to level 80.
6 PvP battlegrounds plus arenas.
45 dungeons, each of which had both normal and heroic modes.
13 raids, each of which had both 10-man and 25-man versions.
 
Kitsune Hazard is right--if you want to argue that WotLK was simply at a different place in its development cycle, go right ahead. But do not pretend that this game has as much non-raid content as WoW did at its peak.
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Umm PLEASE. Why don't you drop that list down to RELEVANT content at max level. At any given time there are usually 5-6 heroics bgs yes, arenas yes, and 2 raids max that were actually being ran. New raid comes out and you can skip a tier and just go to the 2nd to last tier.
If you want to include content nobody does, sure... but why don't we compare fairly.
Take wows income and 11 years into account. Atleast 10x the funding and atleast 11x years being live.
By that logic we'd have like 80 something raids by now... cool story
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Carbine...
 
“We knew we had to do a lot of things to make the game more accessible to a broader market,”
 
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Game to hard
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Oh come on. Including dungeons and raids that no one was running is completely rediculous.
 
I was there, and I remember it well, and there is a lot more to do in WS now than there was in WotLK.
 
As for what year it is, it doesn't matter to me. He point is, people can be happy with not everyone doing the raids, because they were then.
			
				
	Edited November 29, 2015 by SlyJeff	
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Oh come on. Including dungeons and raids that no one was running is completely rediculous.
 
I was there, and I remember it well, and there is a lot more to do in WS now than there was in WotLK.
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			I was there, too, and Jeff is right. WS has the big advantage that even content you've already outplayed still retains a certain appeal (with the exception of adventures), while it became mind-numbingly boring in WoW.	
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Well, I'm finally quitting as well.  I've been playing for over a year and gave a good try to almost everything. I find certain aspects of the game very fun and others not fun at all.
 
Things I loved: housing, community, art-style, Halloween event, combat(when leveling), story.
 
Things I hated:  dungeons, vet dungeons, unforgiving boss encounters, one shot abilities, being unable to complete the vet dungeon run 80% of the time.
 
There's just too much stuff to watch out for, too many telegraphs everywhere, have to watch out for mobs casts and as well as animations, too ping/lag dependent.  FFXIV has bosses where there's lots of red you need to run out of but it feels much less chaotic than WS does. Having both multiple telegraphs bosses AND telegraph based combat perhaps isn't the best idea. FFXIV had bosses with telegraphs but combat is tab target and this arrangement works much better in dungeons/raids, I think.
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Yeah, Jeff, I was there as well. Matter of fact, except for a year after Cata, I've been there since launch.
 
And I'm calling absolute bullshit on your assessment that there is more to do in WS than there was in WoW by the time of WoTLK. I get that Wildstar is your absolute game of choice, but you've jumped the shark on this one.
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Wotlk were my glory days of Wow and perhaps mmos. It was my first as well and I started playing end of TBC so everything was completely new to me.
I was unemployed as well for a while during Wotlk so I did it all... pretty much and there were lots of things to do.
 
¤ Wintergrasp for quests and gear, you could get pvp pieces with separate stats from set pieces which were good. You could also get enchants if I remember correctly.
Winning wintergrasp unlocked VoA raid that had chance to drop good pvp gear/raid gear. You could do this boss twice a week/char... one time 25man and one time 10man
 
¤ All different reputations to unlock for enchants, for example sons of hodir.
 
¤ Argent tournament dailies that gave you lots of mounts and made you able to get rep for all races on your faction. It gave you lots to do. I even faction changed and it was all resetted so I had to start all over again :P
 
¤ Dungeons were fast and easy, you could get raid ready just by running dungeons an evening. Very alt friendly. 
 
¤ Weekly raid quest that gave you reason to pug up and run previous raid tiers. 
 
¤ Current raid. Everyone and their mom could run icc. There were pugs 24/7 even on smaller servers for at least the first quarter. Good for alts and casuals. And if you had time like me, gold runs icc 25man hc. 
 
¤ Achievements came with the expansion, something we take for granted now. But it was new back then and something to work for.
 
¤ Professions were useful. Sure there was botted ore and herbs on AH, but other than that... there were weekly cooldowns and the stuff you sold you got quite good money for.
 
¤ Ordinary pvp like arenas and battleground. If I remember correctly strand of the ancients and isle of conquest came with that expansion? So you got those to run as well.
 
Well, that's some of the things. So even if I had all time in the world back then I had always something to do =) However I can't say there's less to do in Wildstar. It's still all new and fresh to me... and at this point I can manage with current content for at least 6 months. But then, I got much less time to play these days so I don't know how much I would be able to play if I had all my days off. I would surely have consumed content much faster =)
			
				
	Edited November 29, 2015 by Tea	
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That's because every FFXIV boss is scripted and practically designed for the lowest player skill level (not just bosses, the game in its entirety). Let me be entirely honest here though, if you can't deal with dungeons after a year of WS you're probably at the lowest skill level possible and that's lower than even "below average". An average player is at least able to manage raiding GA.
 
If FFXIV is a good fit for you though that sounds about right, for example, I know I used to be able to afk and let my pet's AI handle healing entirely in dungeons.
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Ok, to be fair, I quit WotLK before ICC, so I don't know about that raid- but Naxx wasn't a particularly difficult raid, and yet it wasn't regularly being pugged until quite a bit after it came out (like GA is now). I wouldn't call the raids, at least as I experienced them, "casual content". Not even the 10 mans.
 
And yeah, the list above is a good list of what I remember being available in WotLK. And all of those items, save wintergrasp, have an equivalent in WS. And WS has more to boot.	
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An average player is at least able to manage raiding GA.
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			To me that means lesser skilled players have plenty more content waiting for them ;)	
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Based on... what, exactly? Do you have access to data that the rest of us don't, that contradicts what the game's developers have said and done in response to their internal metrics about their own game?
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			Just paying attention to what is going on, plugging ga is easy. People not able to do it are usually the ones not runing their gear or even runing it correctly. And no, u don't need majors to do it, the minor sets work just fine. On the amount of content, this is a 1st year game, and has alot. And they really haven't added much. But if you think adventures being dungeons like places, that's 11 for you. Throw in 5manning expeditions and you have alot in the game. There's rep grinds and world events. Wow didn't add a raid queue system until champions raid. On top of that when it came in, so many laughed at it cause people would queue and not be geared. pvp was meh, and wintergrasp was a joke half the time. Raids in this game are the only non casual content. Vet dungeons maybe considered non casual but if you gear correctly and know what to do, like idk, interupts, than not to hard 
			
				
	Edited November 29, 2015 by Orrestes	
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			(I liked Wintergrasp :p )	
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There's just too much stuff to watch out for, too many telegraphs everywhere, have to watch out for mobs casts and as well as animations, 
 
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(I liked Wintergrasp :P )
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so after 1 year you realise you dont like a game?
 
the problem you have is beeing bored of WS, not not liking it	
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so after 1 year you realise you dont like a game?
 
the problem you have is beeing bored of WS, not not liking it
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the problem is that we're not KFC. We're an obscure restaurant, not in France, that serves frog legs. The concern is - can this restaurant with such niche tastes even survive?
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I mean, people quit because the game is to hard, and they can't finish dungeons 80% of the time?
 
Simple solution - find a decent guild that will teach you the dungeons!  We have gropus that bring our newer players through dungeons routinely, and we are always glad to explain the fights and walk them through it.
 
Why not just do this?  I don't understand why some people are so committed to the group finder when there are guilds recruiting ALL THE TIME in thayd.   This is beyond my understanding.	
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			Is this going to be a continuing thing?  Like let's have one thread in General per forum member to say whether or not the game is for them and why?
			
				
	Edited November 30, 2015 by Katia Managan	
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Is this going to be a continuing thing?  Like let's have one thread in General per forum member to say whether or not the game is for them and why?
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Hi all,
 
To help keep similar topics together, please divert further replies to this thread: https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/146723-wildstar-not-for-this-average-player/ 
 
Thank you for your understanding,
 
-Team WildStar	
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