137333-ingame-costs-are-ridiculous-page-2

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That's nice. My problem with this and your approach to "see how it shakes out post f2p" for runes and classes is that it screws over anyone who does anything between relaunch and whenever you guys come to your senses and find the proper balance.
 
It goes back to the feeling far too many had at the initial release that we are basically beta testing on live. Not cool.
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Speaking of dyes, how do you get/where do you buy them these days? I checked the AH and couldn't seem to find em there. Or maybe I'm just being a nub :P
 
Sorry for the offtopic!
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			I'm sorry, but the prices are completely fine. There is not enough gold sinks I would say. Game throws money at you for every breath and step you take, it's literally impossible to run out of plat if you are actually doing anything in game other than chatting.	
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So prices are high yes but have any of you looked at how much gold you actually get as a level 50 clearing content since F2P? its ridiculous! on release I played heavily cleared dungeons easy day in day out and raided a bit and earned about 6 plat doing that over those 2-3 months. Today in F2P i qued for the first available PvP instance over and over and IN ONE DAY earned almost 3 plat and a MASSIVE amount of prestige that I could buy rune bags to sell for an easy 5+ plat on top of that. THATS MORE THEN MY 3 PREVIOUS MONTHS OF PLAY COMBINED! this was with me losing almost all my PvP instances cuz i have no PvP and doing almost no optimization!
 
TL:DR Prices are high but so is gold generation
 
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At the end of the day Carbine has a big design philosophy problem running through all of this. They started to look at gold as an enemy of their ability to monetize us. Please don't do that. Players never feel good making less/spending more than they did a month ago. The systems should be parallel and not competing!
 
Wildstar should be the same game it was 2 weeks ego in every way BUT the cash shop. Everything it brings is supposed to be delicious gravy that we all want to consume, not the bitter pill we swallow because we have to.
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 Game throws money at you for every breath and step you take, 
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Prices for rune changes, dyes should be lower or not exist at all for subs
I already paid my money, why should I pay more, while other don't pay at all ?
			
				
	Edited October 7, 2015 by Unibot	
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Today i made 10 plat in 1.5h.
 
If there are no costs to sink some of that somewhere i will be at 100plat by the end of the week (shame there is work though and rl and all those other things)	
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Today i made 10 plat in 1.5h.
 
If there are no costs to sink some of that somewhere i will be at 100plat by the end of the week (shame there is work though and rl and all those other things)
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			If there aren't enough goldsinks then make new ones! You don't have to change current costs to balance things out. Release new ways of spending money.	
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Today i made 10 plat in 1.5h.
 
If there are no costs to sink some of that somewhere i will be at 100plat by the end of the week (shame there is work though and rl and all those other things)
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What's worse, that you made that much that quickly, or that I could spend all that for you on just a couple truly insignificant things in a matter of seconds?
I'm not accusing you of bragging, but is it really that great that you've mace a dime and I've only made a nickel? Perspective on the value of plat seems so varied...
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Today i made 10 plat in 1.5h.
 
If there are no costs to sink some of that somewhere i will be at 100plat by the end of the week (shame there is work though and rl and all those other things)
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Why not just half the costs of runeing and dying for subscribers for more incentive to subscribe, because right now, there isn't a great deal of incentive to subscribe or keep subscribed.
 
I'm not at max level so I haven't experienced the eye gouging costs yet, so I could be completely wrong with what I'm suggesting.
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what exactly? a full repair on ds gear is about 1 -2 plat and i doubt you have the gear. 
buying pots and boost and other things on the ah? well thats called an economy
buying dyes and mount and costumes, well thats cosmetic so why should it be free?
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You're correct, in that I don't have the gear. Repair costs are obnoxious, but as i'm leveling an alt it's currently just a small pain, because I know that if it really mattered I'd just derp around on the AH with my main for a couple hours and make all the plat I could need. 
I'm actually quite fond of a player economy, so no issues there. If people want to blow 2 plat on a fancy piece of furniture then that's their deal and I've got no issues because it was player controlled, and not really a sink since money is just trading hands. 
Cosmetic stuff not being free is a given, I think. My point that I was trying to make is that our perspective on the value of what seems like a decent income of plat seems to have something wrong with it when I can blow everything I have making a single new outfit, or just changing the music that plays in my house. For perspective, I just finished the entire zone for grimvault with my new alt, and with all she earned, I can, should I chose to spoil myself, change the color of the grass in my yard. 
What really alarms me though, is what I'm seeing from players like OnikoGhost, who are experiencing such cost woes that it makes me cringe when I think about finally building myself good gear rather than enjoying myself fucusing on exactly which color of window for my new treehouse really speaks to me. 
It's not just cosmetic stuff that seems to just gobble up cash faster than you can spend it. 
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Do you remember when games took actual time, in game money and effort to acquire good gear?
 	
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Even if you honestly believe that the game needed more gold sinks made from existing transactions, it doesn't make sense to add them all in at once while nerfing various ways of making cash (which is exactly what happened). An F2P player is making less money today than we did 2 weeks ago because they got rid of the buff board (slight) and nerfed gathering (huge). And yet nearly everything (crafting, runeing, dyeing) also went up enormously in cost.
 
Adjusting things one at a time to find balance prevents huge shifts that make players unhappy. Going from one extreme to another while pushing service tokens just makes people see an ugly truth that may or may not be there: Carbine is upsetting the base game's balance just to push the cash shop.
 
Nobody wants things taken away from them so they can buy them back.
			
				
	Edited October 7, 2015 by eMachiavelli	
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Even if you honestly believe that the game needed more gold sinks made from existing transactions, it doesn't make sense to add them all in at once while nerfing various ways of making cash (which is exactly what happened). An F2P player is making less money today than we did 2 weeks ago because they got rid of the buff board (slight) and nerfed gathering (huge). And yet nearly everything (crafting, runeing, dyeing) also went up enormously in cost.
 
Adjusting things one at a time to find balance prevents huge shifts that make players unhappy. Going from one extreme to another while pushing service tokens just makes people see an ugly truth that may or may not be there: Carbine is upsetting the base game's balance just to push the cash shop.
 
Nobody wants things taken away from them so they can buy them back.
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Do you remember when games took actual time, in game money and effort to acquire good gear?
 
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Yes.
 
I also remember when those games became less and less financially viable as social attitudes, aspirations, and practices changed over time.
 
 
All The Best
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Yes.
 
I also remember when those games became less and less financially viable as social attitudes, aspirations, and practices changed over time.
 
I'm somewhat fortunate in that my working week usually means 10-14 hrs on Friday, Saturday and Monday and maybe a few hours on occasional Thursdays, and Sundays - that means typically I have as much time as I want to play Tuesday and Wednesday; most people aren't that lucky.
 
There's a reason W* has had to merge servers and then go F2P - 95% of MMO players do not want the Hardcore, 20 hour a week, every in-game penny spent on gear and pots style of games that you allude to.
 
Players want a more casual style of play, with things like housing etc to divert them from the grind.
 
Carbine can deliver the game you allude to, and it will be dead and buried in 6-12 months; or they can start listening to their players and make changes so those players are happy to stick around and spend money.
 
Hardcore PvEers and PvPers need to understand that they are so small in number that they can not keep a game running on their own.  Games that want to survive financially need to listen to the more casual style of player, and put in mechanisms to make them want to spend money on things they enjoy - rather than forcing them to spend money just to get a basic level of gameplay.
 
All The Best
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You mean like FFXI, which, after almost 15 years still exists and is still played by a sizeable community and maintains a P2P business strategy?
 
If a game is fun and appealing, players will play it even if some things are pricey in game. I remember buying my first scorpion harness... sure 1.2 million Gil was a lot to pay, but I didn't jump on the forums a cry about it. I farmed for a month straight and saved up for it. It's part of the hobby that is MMORPGs. Should everything be uber expensive? Nah, but should everything be given to us free? No. As Nietzche so eloquently put it, with out obstacles to over come no man will ever grow. That sentiment goes for Chua and dirty tree slanks as well.
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And to counter your implied strawman, no one wants things given to them for free - they want a reasonable effort/reward metric.  A weeks gaming to reset one rune, on one bit of gear, or to be able to afford to use one dye (you already own) isn't a reasonable effort/reward metric... ...end of.
 
All The Best
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If you dont do more than 45 minutes of game time per day then you are not even casual... you are hardly a member of the game
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I never made money gathering (saved all mats to use for my own crafting) and barely used the buff board. I could make ~50-80 plat in about a week of casual play doing only my favorite dailies and stacking them with contracts and shiphands. W* has touched no extremes here on either end. Costs are relatively cheap and money is relatively plentiful and easy to make.
 
Would I personally prefer some things to be cheaper? Absolutely. Is anything so expensive I'd sink low enough to actually attach my handle to a publication calling for price drops in the name of some perceived fairness? Absolutely not, I like to think I still have some dignity. 
 
Yes Carbine has to manage a cash shop on top of the economy now... absolutely all players will never all be happy no matter how perfect a game is. That's true of W*, and every other MMO out there. 
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Hi everyone,
 
Thank you very much for the feedback you've been providing in this thread. We are actively monitoring the in-game economy in light of all the changes we have made with the Reloaded release. Please bear with us while we observe how things trend, and know that if changes are necessary, we will make them with your feedback in mind as soon as we are reasonably able to do so.
 
This is exactly the type of information we need in order to find and address the biggest concerns of our community. Please keep the threads and posts like this coming! Thank you.
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I'm ok with rune system being expensive for raiding gear, it should be. One does not replace that gear very often, if at all.
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After reading a good portion of this thread I've come to a few conclusions;
 
1.People as a whole, are unaware of how to actually make money in f2p
2.People dislike change and having to find new ways to make money 
3.People refuse to believe it is now easier to make money
 
Signature, guild buffs, 2-way verification, exp pots, etc. are the name of the game for money in f2p. With all of these added up I managed to cap elder gems and make roughly 15p yesterday from just the daily zones, lightspire, and a couple dozen rounds of pvp. I make 20-30p a day depending on loot drops. Have you seen the prices of loot that drops from vet dungeons? Those fusion runes can come close to 10p each, with many of the crafting mats selling for several gold.
 
As for mats I can understand peoples woes but was there anything truly nerfed about gathering? Maybe I missed something but it just seems like a case of a large amount of people with a lot of mats returning to the game and flooding the market. 	
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After reading a good portion of this thread I've come to a few conclusions;
 
1.People as a whole, are unaware of how to actually make money in f2p
2.People dislike change and having to find new ways to make money 
3.People refuse to believe it is now easier to make money
 
Signature, guild buffs, 2-way verification, exp pots, etc. are the name of the game for money in f2p. With all of these added up I managed to cap elder gems and make roughly 15p yesterday from just the daily zones, lightspire, and a couple dozen rounds of pvp. I make 20-30p a day depending on loot drops. Have you seen the prices of loot that drops from vet dungeons? Those fusion runes can come close to 10p each, with many of the crafting mats selling for several gold.
 
As for mats I can understand peoples woes but was there anything truly nerfed about gathering? Maybe I missed something but it just seems like a case of a large amount of people with a lot of mats returning to the game and flooding the market. 
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implying that your server has an economy. Luminai completely died 10 months ago and now is being raised from the ashes. The problem with that is that it doesn't mirror Entity's and Jabbit's economy, but rather is restarting from the very start with nobody knowing what is worth what. Everything is quite a lot cheaper. 
 
AMP points for example are 3 plat
fortune coin items, such as the lopp hoverboard are under a plat. 
All relics and majority of plants you're better off vendoring. 
 
However the hard costs of the game (gear repair, dyeing, rune rerolling) is not different than on the server with an ecconomy. Meaning you should probably start ignoring physical drops when you're talking about content from here on.
 
EDIT: I would dare say that 2 out of 8 servers have an economy. Warhound and Luminai are as good as new servers, and all of the servers with a 2 ARE new servers.
 
EDIT EDIT: well maybe have is the wrong word here. All of the servers do have an economy as there's plenty of things to buy and sell. It's more like "have an expensive economy". 
 
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That is true, not every server has a large economy. However,  daily zones, pvp, contracts, dungeons, and raids, all make significantly more than pre-f2p thanks to cosmic points and signature, id even say gold earned has gone up higher proportionally to gold spent for rune slot rerolls and dyeing.
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			Having more gold does not equal making spending it more fun.	
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I don't think upkeep is a smart cash shop incentive because it just isn't fun. The feeling of being too poor to even change out costume colors is a miserable one, and at least for me it doesn't tempt me to use the store, it temps to me to try another game that doesn't make me miserable.
 
I went through the old days of hard grinding and have no interest in returning to that. The newer MMO players without that experience will stomach it even less.	
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Please bear with us while we observe how things trend, and know that if changes are necessary, we will make them with your feedback in mind as soon as we are reasonably able to do so.
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Yeah "wait and see" while your raiding guilds HAVE to be runed, and therefore have to drop 40+ plate ON A SINGLE SPEC!!!! I'm both tank and dps in my raid, I don't even have 80p. Do we want to talk about the shear amount of money WIPING is costing? Why does gear suddenly have to be repaired so much more often? Talk to people PVP-ing, they can barely come out of a match with a profit or even break even.  
So your 'wait and see' will already have cost us all this damn money and there won't be a damn thing you guys do to reimburse us for it. I'm having to offer to help people via SERVICE TOKENS to get them runed because they can't afford to do it. You could have at least estimated the number of omni-bits a player would gain getting to 50 and having been playing a decent time and gifted those to us to help with the pain, but that would have showed you cared about your current player base. I understand f2p was all about milking the cow so you could keep functioning, but at what cost to your regular players who have been loyal for the last year?
 
GG.
			
				
	Edited October 7, 2015 by whitewillow99	
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(Warrior here)[all other tanks are poop in this drop so thats that]
 
you dont NEED the off spec max runes. Just put in what is available and change the runes for when you have 3 of the same and no exceptionals left. All this whining. for avatus you need 87% crit mitigation and thats the only runes you really need. 
 
Armor - nice to have but not necessary if you have mountain fusion rune 
str - nope you get a conversion of 80% of you support power into str (so 3.5k is about 10%)
deflect - you get about 10% without runes from pure gear and another 14% from amps/abilities 
glance - why would you want to go for glance when deflect does it better and activates abilities
 
If you are missing mitigation because of lack of armor then take plasma wall .. there is no fight in ga that requires full tanking runes and maybe 1 in DS if you are not the mt
 
Edit: Abit more to add
 
About the class set complaint from the guy on the previous page:
It's such a shame that your guild decided to use that system instead of going ffa and then re-arranging them among yourselves as tanks dont really NEED the class sets (the warrior one is mostly damage and self heal so no mitigation there)
			
				
	Edited October 7, 2015 by Genoshock	
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When did the idea that Raiding was supposed to be incredibly easy and that you should be able to walk right in as soon as you hit 50 come about? 
 
80 plat is nothing to make in a week for even a casual player. Let alone raiding guilds with guild banks and substantial resources to pass around. And you only need to properly rune your gear once... ever, until you hit the next major ILvL tier.... If a serious raiding guild is having trouble with the prices I have to seriously question if they belong in raids or not.
			
				
	Edited October 7, 2015 by Nazryn	
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I think everyone is forgetting a few important things:
 
1. Runing to optimal will only take that long (a month/multiple weeks) if you exclusively rely on plat. Whether you sub or not, you still get omnibits. If you sub, you get them faster. The weekly cap is more than enough to buy 60 service tokens. That's four rune element changes that you get to pick. Supplement your money with using your omnibits more intelligently and your reruning time and costs drop dramatically. If you want to spend your omnibits on shinies instead, go ahead, but you are then putting yourself in this position and don't get to blame the game anymore.
 
2. Cap your EG then earn money. Use your rest XP, flasks of XP, even the Flask of Advancement you get from daily log in rewards. Have an extra pair of pants laying around that you don't need (or enough glory to pull one off the raid gear vendor?) Throw some basic runes in there and the Fusion that drops from Vet Protogames Academy to push your EG gain even faster. Once you cap, switch flasks: Flask of Greed is your friend, but only after you are EG capped.
 
3. Re: rune fragments at the raid tier, drop your glory on cheap gear from the raid gear glory vendor and decon it. Yes, there's some RNG, but you'll get rune fragments to craft your sets (or to sell for a bunch of money). This is especially viable once you don't have any more raid gear to buy off the vendor. If you need money, sell them. If you need them for runing, use them. Also, the power cores that come from the salvage drop semi-decently. (And you get a lot. a lot. of junk to vendor, which is also increased gold generation.)	
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80 plat is nothing to make in a week for even a casual player.
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I think everyone is forgetting a few important things:
 
1. Runing to optimal will only take that long (a month/multiple weeks) if you exclusively rely on plat. Whether you sub or not, you still get omnibits. If you sub, you get them faster. The weekly cap is more than enough to buy 60 service tokens. That's four rune element changes that you get to pick. Supplement your money with using your omnibits more intelligently and your reruning time and costs drop dramatically. If you want to spend your omnibits on shinies instead, go ahead, but you are then putting yourself in this position and don't get to blame the game anymore.
 
2. Cap your EG then earn money. Use your rest XP, flasks of XP, even the Flask of Advancement you get from daily log in rewards. Have an extra pair of pants laying around that you don't need (or enough glory to pull one off the raid gear vendor?) Throw some basic runes in there and the Fusion that drops from Vet Protogames Academy to push your EG gain even faster. Once you cap, switch flasks: Flask of Greed is your friend, but only after you are EG capped.
 
3. Re: rune fragments at the raid tier, drop your glory on cheap gear from the raid gear glory vendor and decon it. Yes, there's some RNG, but you'll get rune fragments to craft your sets (or to sell for a bunch of money). This is especially viable once you don't have any more raid gear to buy off the vendor. If you need money, sell them. If you need them for runing, use them. Also, the power cores that come from the salvage drop semi-decently. (And you get a lot. a lot. of junk to vendor, which is also increased gold generation.)
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About the class set complaint from the guy on the previous page:
It's such a shame that your guild decided to use that system instead of going ffa and then re-arranging them among yourselves as tanks dont really NEED the class sets (the warrior one is mostly damage and self heal so no mitigation there)
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I think everyone is forgetting a few important things:
 
1. Runing to optimal will only take that long (a month/multiple weeks) if you exclusively rely on plat. Whether you sub or not, you still get omnibits. If you sub, you get them faster. The weekly cap is more than enough to buy 60 service tokens. That's four rune element changes that you get to pick. Supplement your money with using your omnibits more intelligently and your reruning time and costs drop dramatically. If you want to spend your omnibits on shinies instead, go ahead, but you are then putting yourself in this position and don't get to blame the game anymore.
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When did the idea that Raiding was supposed to be incredibly easy and that you should be able to walk right in as soon as you hit 50 come about? 
 
80 plat is nothing to make in a week for even a casual player. Let alone raiding guilds with guild banks and substantial resources to pass around. And you only need to properly rune your gear once... ever, until you hit the next major ILvL tier.... If a serious raiding guild is having trouble with the prices I have to seriously question if they belong in raids or not.
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Gold costs are too high and will probably drive players away .
 
-> Reduce repair/dye/reruning/adding a slot by 25% for everyone. 
-> Reduce repair/dye/reruning/adding a slot by 50% or 75% for Signature players. OR -> Service tokens drop for Signature players as loot. 
 
The numbers can easily be tweaked off coure
 
I personally don't mind paying for costumes, mounts and so forth. And I fully understand that Carbine needs a reliable income. Which runing/repair and such are because of service tokens. However I feel like the costs are excessivly high now and possibly will cause issues long term.
 
 
With costs this high, having 25% more currency etc as a signature player doesn't suffice as everything went up by more then 25% in costs. It makes subscribing as a signature very unappealing. For someone that doesn't use the AH much etc, signature becomes a very unappealing prospect. You should push people into opting in for Signature which is the most stable form of income. 
 
The 25% reduction I propose across the board is so that it still remains expensive but doesn't seem outrageous. 
The 75% or Service token drop idea is to give a bigger incentive to go for signature. 	
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So you keep saying. And you claim this is from only doing dailies, contracts and shiphands? You must be running all available dailies and all available contracts every day, and then when you run out of those grinding shiphands? Even then I don't see how you can get close to 80p a week. But even assuming you do somehow, it's hardly "casual" play grinding like that.
 
If you're happy spending your time repetitively running the same content every day to pay for game services that formerly had a reasonable cost and have now had their prices jacked up beyond all proportion, that's your call. But please don't misrepresent this as "casual" gameplay.
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So you keep saying. And you claim this is from only doing dailies, contracts and shiphands? You must be running all available dailies and all available contracts every day, and then when you run out of those grinding shiphands? Even then I don't see how you can get close to 80p a week. But even assuming you do somehow, it's hardly "casual" play grinding like that.
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This isn't the first time someone claims that making <a ridicolous sum of plat> in a week is 'nothing even for a casual'. They are either grossly misunderstanding what a casual is or being dismissive white-knighting pancakes. Given Nazryn's track record in other discussions, I know which one I'm betting on.
Tip of the day: Casuals don't have or do not use their time to grind that much. That's why they are casuals. 
 
Though if he has a detailed breakdown of how he makes that much money in a week, then that'd be lovely. We could compare notes and find out if what he says is actually possible to do as a casual.
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			You make ridiculous amounts of plat through rated PvP, through contract spam, through dungeon completion, shiphands, etc. Here's what the new players don't wanna hear, you're not supposed to reroll things right away, you gotta just take what you have and use it because the gear you're looking at pre-ga/ds isn't worth min-maxing anyways.Take it from players that have been playing far longer than all of you, the plat rolls in and the prices have actually gone down to reroll technically. They give you an omnibits option which if you have the weeks worth of omnibits (120 I believe) allows you 12 free rerolls. Please, stop whining.
			
				
	Edited October 7, 2015 by Naix	
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			To be clear, raiders in raid gear can make a lot of plat casually doing casual content.	
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			Raiders with well maintained gear should not have been set back in progression by having all of their gear broken in the transition. and given very expensive options to get it back in shape.	
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You make ridiculous amounts of plat through rated PvP, through contract spam, through dungeon completion, shiphands, etc. Here's what the new players don't wanna hear, you can't hit 50 and expect to be able to reroll things right away, you gotta just take what you have and use it because the gear you're looking at pre-ga/ds isn't worth min-maxing anyways.
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			I'm a veteran player and I'd be completely confused by anyone telling me that 30p is a lot, Most veteran players I know are able to earn that just by playing the game before raids, I've also spent more than the amounts people complain about pre-drop on rerolling and runing. Besides all this stupid talk about repairs/costs that just reappeared, my personal issue currently is the amount of divine fragments (as a veteran player) seems way too high for everything. Other than that, I think players are just throwing a tantrum about runing for no reason.
			
				
	Edited October 7, 2015 by Naix	
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Too bad your rate of wealth acquisition doesn't change the fact that players who had invested time in their gear got pushed back progression-wise, forcing them to invest time once again to come back to the level of power they had already achieved. I'm sure people could (and some will) do exactly that, but when you couple that unfairness with the other increase in prices, it becomes more annoying than it'd seem otherwise.
 
Too bad some people are very happy to dismiss it because they personally don't have a problem with it and, therefore, nobody else should, I guess.	
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			let's be honest here, they gave people exceptional rune tokens/rune tokens and besides rerolling to be perfect, you really had to spend nothing at all. It's the same thing as always, just play the game more and you'll make money, divine fragments are the only issue that I hear about being a problem within the veteran players I know.
			
				
	Edited October 7, 2015 by Naix	
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I like that exception you put there, because, as far as I could understand it, that's exactly the problem. The rerolling. People already had done that to optimize their gear before F2P, and that's the thing they are not getting. 
 
So yeah, 'besides' that, no problem at all.	
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Too bad your rate of wealth acquisition doesn't change the fact that players who had invested time in their gear got pushed back progression-wise, forcing them to invest time once again to come back to the level of power they had already achieved. I'm sure people could (and some will) do exactly that, but when you couple that unfairness with the other increase in prices, it becomes more annoying than it'd seem otherwise.
 
Too bad some people are very happy to dismiss it because they personally don't have a problem with it and, therefore, nobody else should, I guess.
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let's be honest here, they gave people exceptional rune tokens/rune tokens and besides rerolling to be perfect, you really had to spend nothing at all. It's the same thing as always, just play the game more and you'll make money, divine fragments are the only issue that I hear about being a problem within the veteran players I know.
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Naix, on 07 Oct 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:
 
let's be honest here, they gave people exceptional rune tokens/rune tokens and besides rerolling to be perfect, you really had to spend nothing at all.
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I like that exception you put there, because, as far as I could understand it, that's exactly the problem. The rerolling. People already had done that to optimize their gear before F2P, and that's the thing they are not getting. 
 
So yeah, 'besides' that, no problem at all.
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let's be honest here, they gave people exceptional rune tokens/rune tokens and besides rerolling to be perfect, you really had to spend nothing at all. It's the same thing as always, just play the game more and you'll make money, divine fragments are the only issue that I hear about being a problem within the veteran players I know.
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			30P is a lot for me and I'm a veteran player too. My whole wealth. Around 9 months of playing before I left, sums up to 40P. Playing what I would consider hardcore, I can earn 10P a week excluding expenses. A new person wants to learn a dungeon? Take 2 plat away from that sum that I won't earn because we'll be spending the evening wiping on a dungeon plus I'll spend 50G repairing gear. In fact each day that I spend trying to get closer to 10P a week is each day that I get to do boring stuff, like dailies. And where's the guy that said that rated PvP is profitable? Did 10 rated arenas today, because they were on the daily and the game bugged out and had trouble registering that we already done 6, earned 20G at most. Followed that with a few battlegrounds. At the end of the day I've spent around 2-3 hours playing Wildstar today and earned around 50 to 60G. Whoever is earning 30P, 80P, etc a week is on 1 out of 2 servers with an established economy and is getting lucky with drops.	
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How is that truthfully and honestly being "pushed back" in progression? They didn't lose any progress, it will just take a little extra time to get further in progressions. What's the rush? Is a rabid Rowsdower chasing you?
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30P is a lot for me and I'm a veteran player too. My whole wealth. Around 9 months of playing before I left, sums up to 40P. Playing what I would consider hardcore, I can earn 10P a week excluding expenses. A new person wants to learn a dungeon? Take 2 plat away from that sum that I won't earn because we'll be spending the evening wiping on a dungeon plus I'll spend 50G repairing gear. In fact each day that I spend trying to get closer to 10P a week is each day that I get to do boring stuff, like dailies. 
 
And where's the guy that said that rated PvP is profitable? Did 10 rated arenas today, because they were on the daily and the game bugged out and had trouble registering that we already done 6, earned 20G at most. Followed that with a few battlegrounds. At the end of the day I've spent around 2-3 hours playing Wildstar today and earned around 50 to 60G. 
 
Whoever is earning 30P, 80P, etc a week is on 1 out of 2 servers with an established economy and is getting lucky with drops.
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I'm a veteran player and I'd be completely confused by anyone telling me that 30p is a lot
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Entity 1, and on really good weeks yea. But you can pull a lot just by taking a little bit of time watching the market (which you can do right from the CE / AH screens). Don't forget you get crafting items from mobs, so check your materials bags as well as your main bag! I highly suggest optimizing your contract and daily stacks though (PvE, I haven't ever gotten anywhere with PvP contracts personally).
 
 
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All due respect, get back to me when it takes you that long to pop a single raid instance. Call me old fashioned or out of touch, but that game still exists and is still a sub only game ;)
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Well then, you should be confused. Because it's a good deal of plat. Sorry you can't understand the plight of the "little folk" who don't play the game as much as you do or have the same resources.
 
(I have the plat. My main is 99% fully optimized. My alt is 80% optimized in his DPS set, and has a workable tanking set. I can afford it. But many players I know can't. The difference between you and I is that I empathize with their situation).
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It's a game, they're not poor starving children in Africa.
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I didn't say they were.
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I don't know what this means.
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It's a game, they're not poor starving children in Africa.
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It means everyone calm the cupcake down. Optimizing for W* raiding is beyond easy and cheap compared to other, albeit older, MMO's. Other MMO's that are massively successful critically and financially and didn't have to salvage their lack of commitment to a difficult play experience through a F2P transition (though to be fair they did ease up a lot of the content recently).
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Come over to Luminai. Because economy was non existent after the game died, everything is a hundred times cheaper. You won't make money off gathering at all. And majority of the drops that would go for over a plat go for mere gold here. When you are on the newer, less economically progressed servers, you can see that your pure money intake is almost identical to your spending. And this isn't true for most other MMOs. 
 
For example I remember when GW2 just came out, gems were going for silver, the economy was that low. And a race specific gear set just for beauty was being seen as elite. And I'm cool with that. The strain hoverboard that's sold from a vendor in Wildstar can also be seen as elite. However never did in GW2 had a had a problem with grinding money for repairs (even when repairs existed) and dyeing was always free. You were not going to spend more money that you earned by just going about doing your daily things, such as dungeons and PvP.
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What do you mean you *shouldn't* have to do it? They worked really hard revising the whole rune system from the bottom up because people complained non-stop about it. Obviously making the full changes live necessarily requires new runeing. I was perfectly fine with the old system, but I'm glad they did listen to the community who, on the whole, wanted changes. Sorry we all have to get used to a new rune system that a vocal group here lobbied for... 
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it's a game. Not a job. A game has to be fun. If you can't have fun on your free time without grinding beforehand, you're likely to just switch games.
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It's an MMORPG................................................................................................................................... the genre built on grinding away your free time
 
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Honestly I don't know how people went from pre-drop no mention at all of repairs, grinds, etc, and now that F2P's drop hits all I see are talks about repair costs. I've gone up 30p so far this week personally.
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oh there were mentions. It's just that most people quit over the first few months and then the complaints ceased. 
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Did you miss the part where rune extraction cannot be paid for with in game currency? Yes, I can extract all runes from a piece of gear, using omnibits, but that acquisition is gated by a weekly soft cap.
 
Omnibits are gained in game, and are there for in-game currency. Like I said, TIME is all that is required.
 
And requiring people to spend "time" to get back to the level they were before *is* problematic, because some people don't have it.
 
Then they probably shouldn't be wasting their time in an MMORPG, the single most time consuming gaming genre ever invented. 
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The quests alone will net you a decent amount each week if you use all the available bonuses / pots, Drops get ya the rest. My very best week I managed to pull just under 100 plat just doing what I described above (thanks to some very excellent shiphand drops). I always make sure I have no free slots on the markets, and if you watch how certain things are selling you can keep up some serious turnover (which is incredibly easy since you can view transaction histories right from the markets)
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You're whining about a little extra ingame currency. People seem to forget that the economy IS part of the challenge of an MMO,... No one is required to spend anything besides time on this game right now. They can opt to be ADHD and spend RL money or they can just play the game. If we're talking about raiders who presumably would be the more invested players in any event, I see no problem with a little extra play time at the moment. YMMV
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Did you miss the part where rune extraction cannot be paid for with in game currency? Yes, I can extract all runes from a piece of gear, using omnibits, but that acquisition is gated by a weekly soft cap.
 
And requiring people to spend "time" to get back to the level they were before *is* problematic, because some people don't have it.
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Omnibits are gained in game, and are there for in-game currency. Like I said, TIME is all that is required.
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What? lol.
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Then they probably shouldn't be wasting their time in an MMORPG, the single most time consuming gaming genre ever invented.
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Oh you're talking about recovering runes, which wasn't an option before, honestly didn't think about it ever before because I wouldn't be putting exceptionals in gear I don't plan on keeping. Not to mention DS gear uses divines, GA gear uses pures, etc, so you should be moving into new runes anyways normally.
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Yes, you have to use service tokens to retain unique raid level set pieces when you transfer them to new gear, and the exceptional ones that are a pain to make.
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Are you planning to destroy and refarm your class set runes when you upgrade a gear piece that they are in?
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Soft cap isn't a gate, it's diminishing returns. And even if there was a weekly hard cap, it still is just play time required, not RL currency.
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This is one of the least time consuming AAA MMO's on the Market Mirta... I'm not exaggerating.... 
 
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not all MMORPGs. Just this one.
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Shame, but blaming it on such a minor inconvienience in the scheme of things is a bit silly.
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Don't have to, using DS gear, but I figure you'll have the omnibits available to remove your WoP if you're progressing slowly in DS. Not to mention runes are what matter mostly and moving into a DS piece isn't a big deal because the DS pieces stats aren't going to be a huge change and you'll just be using the same pure level runes.
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But it can be bypassed with RL currency. And when you *need* to move those pieces into a new set of gear, it's pretty much mandatory.
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Wow reading this makes me really depressed lol.  I was able to rune my gear and such to a point where I was at least adequate to run GA.
 
But now with what it sounds like is required just to get plat to just be able to get my gear back up to speed it seems like I won't see the inside f a raid for a very very long time.
 
I'm all for #hardcore hard content, tough bosses etc, but I guess when people mean hardcore they mean "you need to always be grinding"
 
Guess I'll have to accept being super casual in WS for now while being #hardcore in another game :[
			
				
	Edited October 7, 2015 by Xiun	
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Maybe your terrible guild
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Hey, guess what? We are done here.
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What exactly are you considering raiding in XIV? I assume you're not exactly talking about Bahamut (final coil) ? I'm going to level with you, much of what that game calls raiding patently isn't (though props to SE on the serious raid content in FFXI). And remind me again how long it took to level your classes and jobs. You seem to be confusing time consumption with raid preparation. 
 
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Alexander savage progressing on Turn 3. Took me about a month to get to level 60 playing 1 hour a day or less, which I consider casual. But money was never a problem. And progression never turned stressful.
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