124774-q-carbine-are-you-changing-your-business-model-page-2

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Why would we want them if they refuse to pay for a game they like?
 
I don't want them in my population.
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They did say F2P/B2P, so it's the monthly subscription that's the barrier, not spending money.
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CREDD exists to    1, be a way to compete with gold sellers who would be hosting this little service anyway just reversed and against the TOS.
2, offer a balance between those irl frugal hardcores (no job, many hours) and the irl spendy casuals (many jobs, no hours)
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At least half.
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I don't think we have. I'm pretty sure I would've remembered you making an argument this obviously wrong.
 
Setting aside Anvh's completely correct point that they make a profit off the cash subscriber too, I'm sure we'd all charge 33% more for the same service if anyone would buy it. But if we continued to give them the option to pay our original price at the same time that we added the option for them to buy the same thing for 33% more, they'd have to be completely insane to choose the more expensive option.
 
The point of Roda's argument--and yours too if you're seriously buying into it--is that the value of CREDD is inherent to the 30 days of playtime that you get from it. That's what the cash buys you. You're buying playtime, and each CREDD gives 30 days.
 
There's three ways of getting 30 days of playtime: a digital purchase for $15, a game time card for $15, and CREDD for $20. If the reason you're buying CREDD is for the playtime, you're a complete idiot. Because you can buy the playtime for only $15, instead of $20.
 
The thing that you get by spending cash to buy a CREDD token instead of a subscription fee is the opportunity to convert that token into plat.
 
And seriously, it blows me away that anybody would be willing to shred their own credibility by claiming otherwise.
 
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The point of Roda's argument--and yours too if you're seriously buying into it--is that the value of CREDD is inherent to the 30 days of playtime that you get from it. That's what the cash buys you. You're buying playtime, and each CREDD gives 30 days.
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But if they love WildStar, they could be playing it right now. All they have to do is spend money.
 
They're not willing to do that.
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			I feel like a lot of this anxiety comes from the fact that there are a lot of really awful F2P MMOs out there, especially certain Korean ones. And then there's the whole slew of terrible addictive F2P mobile games that exist nowadays. So it's natural for people to think F2P = cheap, greedy, low quality, P2W, etc.But I think we should give Carbine a little bit of our trust... I personally really love the direction they've gone in this year, and I get the feeling that the creative team are still really passionate about what they're doing. And these box promo items are pretty great, honestly. They're silly and fun and they don't feel like replacements for more serious/"badass" items that people have earned. Let's not jump to horrible conclusions just yet.	
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But I think we should give Carbine a little bit of our trust... 
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At least half.
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1. I'm not arguing with you about the concept of trading ______ for plat, or the reasons why someone would spend money on this game. I'm clarifying what CREDD is so we can actually discuss why mystery boxes != CREDD, so could you PLEASE quit with this conflict-starved forum aggro you've got going on?
2. I'm not defining the value of CREDD to the purchaser. I don't have that right, you don't have that right, even Carbine doesn't have that right. I'm defining the value of CREDD on the gameworld.  I give precisely zero shits on what anyone does with their dollars/pesos/euros/pounds/rupees/whathaveyou, and what people do with their in-game money.  I'm talking about how players are able to verb in WildStar.  And guess what?  CREDD's use is to grant game time, like stim packs grant hp, dyes grant color unlocks, and mystery boxes grant titles mounts and costumes.
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But I think we should give Carbine a little bit of our trust...
 
 
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In Swtor you have gambling boxes (that cost little), you have the fluff items you can buy flat out without gamble! (this is x 10 more expensive comparred to 1 gamblign box but you are garanted the item) and you in addition have the option to sub:)
 
I hope that if WS changes the business model that they can take those elements from SWTOR:)
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In Swtor you have gambling boxes (that cost little), you have the fluff items you can buy flat out without gamble! (this is x 10 more expensive comparred to 1 gamblign box but you are garanted the item) and you in addition have the option to sub:)
 
I hope that if WS changes the business model that they can take those elements from SWTOR:)	
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No. Really no.
These gambling boxes are a blight and should not be encouraged in ANY model.
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You mean half of the vocal minority here on the forums?
Most also said that cash shops are bad and that many will not buy items for the fluff... just look at what Carbine latest action did. Some even bought 6 boxes to get their fluff, some who said they support the gaming industry are buying off grey market sellers to get the codes cheaply for the mystery boxes...
 
So yeah I would love to see wildstar go b2p that way i can get more friends in, and the current population looks willing enough for a cash shop so lets go.
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Actually, you just proved my point without intending to. You just showed that there's some hidden value that you didn't account for when person buys 6 1-month subscriptions as they come up for renewal that they wouldn't get from buying 1 6-month subscription. What's the value in that?
 
If they don't like it 3 months in, they can stop paying and save themselves $33 over the cost of the 6-month subscription. The hidden value is the ability to leave sooner if the game doesn't deliver.
 
Sort of like the hidden value in the $20 CREDD token is the plat.
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Keep the sub, add the cash shop, leave the freeloaders.
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So, expect subscribers to put up with the worst element of F2P without the benefit of increasing the number of people to play with.
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Blizzard has a perfect cash shop. Same would work here too.
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Blizzard has a perfect cash shop. Same would work here too.
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Blizzard has a perfect cash shop. Same would work here too.
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Why would we want them if they refuse to pay for a game they like?
 
I don't want them in my population.
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In Swtor you have gambling boxes (that cost little), you have the fluff items you can buy flat out without gamble! (this is x 10 more expensive comparred to 1 gamblign box but you are garanted the item) and you in addition have the option to sub:)
 
I hope that if WS changes the business model that they can take those elements from SWTOR:)
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Keep the sub, add the cash shop, leave the freeloaders.
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That is nothing positieve and it keeps people away, if you want to kill the game then that would be the way.
 
What WS need is a more population i don't care if half of them would not pay a dine. The more healthy the game looks the more willing people will be to invest in the game.
 
With the latest actions I really wonder about CREDD, people we might have bought a CREDD would now buy a box and sell the item for a much bigger turn around. I know quite a few players who use credd because for them the monthly sub is expensive. On Jabbit the CREDD prices were high already...
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That is nothing positieve and it keeps people away, if you want to kill the game then that would be the way.
 
What WS need is a more population i don't care if half of them would not pay a dine. The more healthy the game looks the more willing people will be to invest in the game.
 
With the latest actions I really wonder about CREDD, people we might have bought a CREDD would now buy a box and sell the item for a much bigger turn around. I know quite a few players who use credd because for them the monthly sub is expensive. On Jabbit the CREDD prices were high already...
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That is nothing positieve and it keeps people away, if you want to kill the game then that would be the way.
 
What WS need is a more population i don't care if half of them would not pay a dine. The more healthy the game looks the more willing people will be to invest in the game.
 
With the latest actions I really wonder about CREDD, people we might have bought a CREDD would now buy a box and sell the item for a much bigger turn around. I know quite a few players who use credd because for them the monthly sub is expensive. On Jabbit the CREDD prices were high already...
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I suspect that what it really means is that any decrease in new CREDD purchasing here is being approximately offset by CREDD stockpilers starting to sell off their reserves, worried that they're about to be left holding the bag on a bunch of worthless CREDD tokens if there really is a change in business model. Or that there never really were that many new CREDD purchases going on in the first place.
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I know for a fact Rift and SWTOR actualy have more people that pay a monthly sub after they went F2P then before they did. Really all it changes are the benefits for your sub and creates an increase in population. Sure there are some folks that don't sub and will not pay any money, but if that means dungeons and pvp is popping then it's all good.
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Haven't followed the credd on Jabbit but last month we saw it go up and down between 30-40 plat if it can move that much I assume there aren't many around here that sell it to begin with.
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The point of Roda's argument--and yours too if you're seriously buying into it--is that the value of CREDD is inherent to the 30 days of playtime that you get from it. That's what the cash buys you. You're buying playtime, and each CREDD gives 30 days.
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You maybe but others rather spend the €20, get 30 days themselves and sell the item for 100+ plat.
There is no way that any sane person will buy credd now for real money.
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Why not? My time is more valuable than my money.
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Read it again because what you said makes no sense at all.
 
Specially for you.
 
$20 = 1 CREDD = 15 plat
$20~30 = boxed WS = 30 days subscription + 1 item that sells for 100 plat
 
Which one would you chose if you want to have more Plat in game?
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Read it again because what you said makes no sense at all.
 
Specially for you.
 
$20 = 1 CREDD = 15 plat
$20~30 = boxed WS = 30 days subscription + 1 item that sells for 100 plat
 
Which one would you chose if you want to have more Plat in game?
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https://www.g2a.com/wildstar-standard-edition-cdkey-proerder-eu.html
 
Even if the box was $40 all the items sells for more then the CREDD	
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https://www.g2a.com/wildstar-standard-edition-cdkey-proerder-eu.html
 
Even if the box was $40 all the items sells for more then the CREDD
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It's $19.99 on Amazon.
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			it's 6€ on Ebay ;)	
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Looks like the dropped it again after raising it for that initial rush.
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OK then. I agree completely, as long as you completely ignore plat and what anyone can or can't buy with it completely, negating the existence of most vendors, the AH, the CX, farming, and all other elements of the in-game economy, CREDD is just about playtime.
 
But I do not share your eagerness to completely ignore a major game system simply because it invalidates your argument. I'm also not going to act like I don't know why purchasers buy CREDD just because you'd rather pretend you have no idea. I prefer uncomfortable full-truths to extremely cozy half-truths--and the reason why should be obvious in the current context.
 
The reason why is so that I don't get caught by surprise when Carbine acts like a company because I already know Carbine IS a company. They're not my heroes, not my buddies, not my personal servants, and not my last hope for a True Gaming Experience. They're a game company that wants to make something awesome but also needs to pay their bills, just like most game companies. If they don't meet expectations, that will be worse for the gameworld than any fluffy kittykins mount ever could be.
 
I'm very sorry that this last promotion made it impossible for you to keep ignoring that fundamental reality, but in the end your relationship with them will be more reality-based for it. And that's probably a good thing.
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Once again, it's not that they are about time, it's that they are time that you are purchasing to resell for plat, to give away in a contest, or to look at in your account inventory 'cause you think it looks pretty, or whatever.  I'm not telling you that you don't know why people buy CREDD, I'm saying it doesn't matter because the existence and use of CREDD has zero effects or restrictions on anyone not using CREDD.
The fact that CREDD virgin has no mechanical difference to their account when compared to a CREDD Barron is what allows the entire mechanic to be ignored without problems (outside of pocket envy).
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Did any watch the whole http://www.twitch.tv/queuetimes/profile/past_broadcasts I felt a bit disappointed till the after show talk, then I fully understood why they did the show the way they did.
 
Nothings changed, Carbine are still not talking! Never really expected them to answer any of the front page questions. CRB_Sunshine is stuck between a rock and a hard place, a community manager in a company that does communicate......how strange is that ? I'm not talking about company making or breaking policy, I'm talking about anything
 
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/forum/198-news-and-announcements/ January 15 was the last time Carbine actually made any real attempt, and that's getting on for 5 months.  	
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Did any watch the whole http://www.twitch.tv/queuetimes/profile/past_broadcasts I felt a bit disappointed till the after show talk, then I fully understood why they did the show the way they did.
 
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Audio is muted xD
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This no more valid here than it was in your last post, or the one before that. You can keep saying it as long as you'd like, but it will continue to be untrue. This is not a minor thing that nobody cares about, it's the entire in-game economy that you just relabeled "pocket envy" in your effort to pretend it doesn't matter. It does.
 
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Agree completely that if we'd all been given a box and a call to arms about buying the boxes up, then rather than complaining on the forums Id have been out there pushing the game and the promotion.
 
I've been trying to get my old friends who played to come back, but not anymore. At least, not in the immediate future since it doesn't look like Carbine is actually going to do anything to "make it right". It's hard for me to be a good ambassador for the game when I'm grumpy about this promotion.	
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			The "call to arms" was them posting the info/ad about the promotion. Guess who most of the people who saw that ad were? Us.And frankly I think you're not considering the fact that giving everyone in the game a free month of sub time would be a huge financial hit to them. They're struggling right now as it is. You guys just seem really entitled to me, honestly.	
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Agree completely that if we'd all been given a box and a call to arms about buying the boxes up, then rather than complaining on the forums Id have been out there pushing the game and the promotion.
 
I've been trying to get my old friends who played to come back, but not anymore. At least, not in the immediate future since it doesn't look like Carbine is actually going to do anything to "make it right". It's hard for me to be a good ambassador for the game when I'm grumpy about this promotion.
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Agree completely that if we'd all been given a box and a call to arms about buying the boxes up, then rather than complaining on the forums Id have been out there pushing the game and the promotion.
 
I've been trying to get my old friends who played to come back, but not anymore. At least, not in the immediate future since it doesn't look like Carbine is actually going to do anything to "make it right". It's hard for me to be a good ambassador for the game when I'm grumpy about this promotion.
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Yeah, I feel entitled to a reasonable chance at everything the developers have created without having it being put behind real world currency. I've spent more on this game than most forms of entertainment I engage in.
 
I don't enjoy the idea of grinding a huge amount of plat to have access to something that someone else got for $5.
 
But whatever, justified or not, that's how I feel. Betrayed and manipulated. I'm telling Carbine how they can avoid that in the future if they care.	
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Audio is muted xD
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Yeah, I feel entitled to a reasonable chance at everything the developers have created without having it being put behind real world currency. I've spent more on this game than most forms of entertainment I engage in.
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Design doesn't dictate price, marketing/PR/monetization/economy does. We made a few items exclusive to our releases at ArenaNet that were chosed/vetted for Black Lion sale by our MTX team. Design doesn't have any control over pricing or using items as cash purchases.
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Oh, I get that. But it was still on the back of money I've spent on the game.
 
I know it may not make sense to a lot of people, but my biggest issue with cash shops and gamble boxes is that they break immersion. I know, pretty rich for a guy who doesn't "get" RP (I have no hard feelings against people who like it). But every time I see a fat cat, I know there was real world money tied to that item, and now I'm suddenly not in a video game, but thinking about budgets and stuff. Paying for access to the game is fine, but seeing flying $$ all around me is ugly.
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Would your immersion be less broken if there was a way to get it in-game without depending on having someone physically going out and purchasing the box and reselling it ingame? (like GW2's gem conversion)
(this is in a scenario where there is no longer a sub you are paying that you'd expect to cover all of this, of course.)
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I would be happily throwing fistfuls of dollars towards the studio I love so that they can still keep making the MMO that I love if only they had not acted against what won them my loyalty, and treated their player base with the respect they have shown since winter beta
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...Would this be a bad time to once again note that these items are for sale in the auction house for in-game plat, and that you don't actually need to spend a dime of money to obtain them? Because if they had wanted it to be locked behind real world currency, they could've made it BoP. They didn't.
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I do not doubt your good intentions, nor do I doubt your sincerity. You clearly feel very strongly about this. But the reality is that this sentence demonstrates exactly the kind of thinking that is entirely too common around these forums, that tries to substitute passion for feasibility as if somehow they're interchangeable. They aren't.
 
The tragic reality is that you were just fine with them early last week and they were being the MMO you love. However many fistfuls of dollars you were already throwing at them for being such a loveable game wasn't enough to keep the game on the shelves.
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You need to get it out of your head that "passion" and "logic" are mutually exclusive, because they're not. 
Just because I care, and just because I'm animated, does not mean I am to be dismissed, I'm not suggesting Carbine just advertise better, or what have you.
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Oh, I agree with you that they need not be mutually exclusive. But they can nevertheless be confused with one another as if they are interchangeable, which is how you end up with people seriously proposing things that aren't feasible alternatives to what they did as feasible alternatives to what they did.
 
Instead of offering an exclusive item in boxes to get them off the shelves, they could try to raise revenues with a veteran rewards program is not a feasible alternative. Not as a replacement but as a supplement
Neither is maybe they could offer things that were exclusive before, thereby violating a previous claim of an exclusive offer. ​My opinion, still better than introducing yet more exclusive items  The Costume wasn't deemed super exclusive, just used as a "thank you" tool for participating in the Betas.  They could easily do controlled surveys before hand to see what anyone's tolerance for timed-exclusivity.  Oh, and they've done this before with the Raidin' and Entertainer's set being put up for Elder Gems.  Whoopsie looks like the impossible has happened.
Neither is maybe they could offer something that isn't exclusive and it will sell just as well. I never said this
Neither is maybe if people who are bad at recruiting their friends had more incentive, they'd become good at it. ​I never said this. I said they wouldn't give up so easily.
Neither is maybe if they offered an exclusive item in boxes and gave everyone who is playing the game one, they'd still sell as many boxes even though even I agree that many, if not most, purchasers of the boxes are people already playing the game. I am not saying that "maybe people will be convinced to buy more"  I'm saying they will.  You will more likely lose 1 box purchase from people who are currently mass purchasing them, but you will gain 2 box purchases from those who might but are on the fence.  It's cash shop 101.  You give them the first hit free and they are most likely to come back for more.
 
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			Alright. This thread has turned into nothing but people arguing against each other with masked insults, and as such I'm locking it. It's no longer constructive nor is it discussing the OP. Again we encourage constructive discussion, but the insults and name calling are not allowed. You don't need to see eye to eye, but you do have to act respectful towards one another. 	
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