119621-convert-ws-to-a-pve-only-mmo

== Content ==
			
I think the mix of PvE+PvP is making mmo's a real mess. Classes are nerfed, messed up, destroyed, turned to one click fest in the sake of <BALANCE>.
 
WoW did this many times and now classes are crap. No choices, no customization, no real talent trees. Only a cookie cutter build and 3 buttons. SWTOR is doing the same with the last expansion. Rift did it also (still has better classes imho) as almost any other themepark mmo.
 
So, why should PvP affect my gameplay, if lets say i m playing in a PvE or even an RP server? Why should my raid healing get nerfed or changed or whatever, if my class is OP in arena? Why? I don't care about PvP and if we want to be fair the HUGE majority of players are PvE and even more Solo PvE players. Just check the demographics in any mmo. So once again, why?
 
WS has many problems and PvP is maybe the biggest one. I don't think it can be fixed tbh, at least not in the near future. So why giving funds for it? Why not just DELETE it and give all resources to PvE?
 
Ppl will loose arenas-bg's-warplots and open world pvp. But WHO plays them anyway in WS. We are not speaking for WoW or SWTOR, which are established games with huge amounts of money and Devs to support all the content, even the content that a small minority is playing. We are discussing about WS and we must focus on it.
 
So after loosing the above PvP content, what do we expect to get? First of all resources, both money and personnel, all for the sake of PvE content. We will have better classes without the PvP restrictions. Better character customization. Better talent trees and end game character progression. More funds for more and of higher quality adventures, dungeons, raids, housing, solo content, professions, customization etc. Faster, better and less buggy patches. Less @@ at forums for class unbalances, PvP gear etc.
 
Anyway i m not a game designer, i m just an old mmo player. Devs can think even more ways to get the PvP funds make a well use for PvE and the game overall state. Almost every other mmo in the market has this PvE-PvP combination. I think its time for WS to dare a huge change.	
----
			Where is this coming from? Since when has Carbine nerfed espers? They've buffed them in both PvE and PvP since release	
----
			Its not about the nerf of power, its about the changes in the classes due to PvP that affects and restricts PvE play.	
----
			I think that competitive (I use this in the loose sense of pvp) gaming is undergoing a major evolution on the field of rpg/strategy. When WoW rolled out, the market was not as saturated with free to play competitive games. Now we have LoL, HoN, Dota, Planetside 2 and the list goes on and on endlessly. What many of these games offer is a fundamental fairness and a certain level of sportsmanship that it enforces. There is little persistent progression in contrast with MMORPGs, or it is balanced out through the implementation of sidegrades and customisation. In most MMORPGs pvp is rewarded with better pvp gear with clear statistical advantages over those without it. I think for the aforementioned reason, MMORPGs are inferior to, and are falling behind, other venues of pvp. It's just not the best 'vehicle' for pvp delivery. As such, I agree that pvp balancing should never be to the detriment or undue benefit of classes' pve performance, unless it's a pvp oriented game where pve is merely auxiliary.	
----
			The game isn't 6 months old yet. Relax. This doomsday stuff needs to end. No game has ever started off with complete balance. 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The game isn't 6 months old yet. Relax. This doomsday stuff needs to end. No game has ever started off with complete balance. 
----
			
Not sure if troll or not...
 
You do realize a big chunk of the population DO PvP right? A lot more PvP'ers left compared to PvE'ers because of current issues in the game. 
Even though I'm not big on PvP myself, I do think Carbine should keep working on fixing their issues (ability bugs, class balance, etc) Here's a good video on PvP issues: http://youtu.be/VlMBbo2ilwE
 
And... I'd take a look at this thread as well if I were you:
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/118256-pvppve-server-idiosyncrasy-questionnaire/?hl=vicvanmeter&do=findComment&comment=1229890
 
We have a loooot of PvP players. It wouldn't be smart for Carbine to ditch them. That's all I'll say.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Its not about WS only and its not to doom WS. The balance will never come as it didn't in any other game. WS doesnt have the luxury of personnel, time or money as we speak. Once again i would say give focus on the strengths of WS which clearly are the PvE aspects of it. The game shines in combat, movement, animations and PvE content in general but falls apart when it comes to PvP.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Neither did Rift, GW, EQ, WoW, or SWToR at 6 months in.
----
			Take out what some people still like/look for and drive even more people out/away. Best. Idea. Ever.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Neither did Rift, GW, EQ, WoW, or SWToR at 6 months in.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yes but none of them was less than a niche game in a couple of months after release.
 
If they could handle both PvE & PvP i would accept it, but they can't. PvP sucks as it sucked in day1. Patches went from monthly to quarterly base and they again are the same buggy ones as when they were implemented monthly. Customization is out of the discussion. Their announces about guild housing/neighborhood, pets, companions etc etc are way gone. None knows anything about the future of the game. Not the distant one, but in the next couple of months. Imho they cant do them both. Either they don't have the resources or the combat itself is not offered for both. Maybe is a matter of how talented or not devs are, i don't know.
 
Sure thing is WS at its current state its a mess with only a few ppl left to play it.
 
Btw i m here, writing, suggesting and follow both game and forums because i care about it and i want to see it in a much better state than it is today.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
How exactly is WS "niche"? You are making assumptions about the game's revenue, staffing capabilities, and player numbers. How is that trying to help?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think the mix of PvE+PvP is making mmo's a real mess. Classes are nerfed, messed up, destroyed, turned to one click fest in the sake of <BALANCE>.
 
WoW did this many times and now classes are crap. No choices, no customization, no real talent trees. Only a cookie cutter build and 3 buttons. SWTOR is doing the same with the last expansion. Rift did it also (still has better classes imho) as almost any other themepark mmo.
 
So, why should PvP affect my gameplay, if lets say i m playing in a PvE or even an RP server? Why should my raid healing get nerfed or changed or whatever, if my class is OP in arena? Why? I don't care about PvP and if we want to be fair the HUGE majority of players are PvE and even more Solo PvE players. Just check the demographics in any mmo. So once again, why?
 
WS has many problems and PvP is maybe the biggest one. I don't think it can be fixed tbh, at least not in the near future. So why giving funds for it? Why not just DELETE it and give all resources to PvE?
 
Ppl will loose arenas-bg's-warplots and open world pvp. But WHO plays them anyway in WS. We are not speaking for WoW or SWTOR, which are established games with huge amounts of money and Devs to support all the content, even the content that a small minority is playing. We are discussing about WS and we must focus on it.
 
So after loosing the above PvP content, what do we expect to get? First of all resources, both money and personnel, all for the sake of PvE content. We will have better classes without the PvP restrictions. Better character customization. Better talent trees and end game character progression. More funds for more and of higher quality adventures, dungeons, raids, housing, solo content, professions, customization etc. Faster, better and less buggy patches. Less @@ at forums for class unbalances, PvP gear etc.
 
Anyway i m not a game designer, i m just an old mmo player. Devs can think even more ways to get the PvP funds make a well use for PvE and the game overall state. Almost every other mmo in the market has this PvE-PvP combination. I think its time for WS to dare a huge change.
----
			No thanks.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If they do this I would like a full refund of every transaction of real money I ever made to Carbine. Including the game price itself.
----
			
I would like to start out by saying that my questions are in no way meant to be snarky, sarcastic, or an attack on you.  I ask them only because I'm not a healer or tank, I've tried out those roles and I just don't have the temperament for them(I tend to let people die/let the group wipe if someone does something stupid :P and no I don't count new player learning as stupid).
 
OK, so I see people say that because certain roles and/or classes get nerfed because they are OP in PvP it changes their PvE experience.  My question is, when it changes that experience, does it make your role/class in PvE impossible to play?  And when/if it does, do the devs work to fix the PvE issues?
 
Personally, I like to PvP.  I want W* to fix the problems so I can get back to it.  But if PvP gets removed from MMORPG's, I probably won't play them any more.  This is a multiplayer game, when you get a bunch of people together in a game like that, they're going to want to fight other players.  	
----
			
The players have already voted with their game time. PvPers are already hanging on with their finger tips through coordination and out-of-battle arrangements. It's near impossible to level in PvP only, you can do it but it will take a while. PvPers are forced to grind rep and they don't make coin in game doing what they like to do best.
 
This isn't the first thread asking for euthanasia... I don't agree with it but I understand where you're coming from.	
----
			No. Just no. I would quit WildStar the moment they announced something like this and demand all my money back. WildStar is my first and only MMO and I want to be able to do both PvE and PvP. Taking PvP away will just hurt the population even more as well.	
----
			Speaking as someone who actively dislikes PvP, I have to disagree with the OP.  The game was not designed to be PvE only, and thus PvP is part of its lore and feel.  (That is not to say that I'd not mind the PvE servers being pure consentual PvP only, so that if I make it to Illium, I only have to worry about the guards not other players.)	
----
			Impossible. Two playable (opposing) factions in the game. I guess too much work to achieve this. No capacities, but I asked for something similar... even that was neglected :( :(	
----
			
 
I hope this topic is a joke, seriously ...	
----
			
I m just wondering where are all those pvp ppl. Why none in queue for bg's? Why none is arranging warplots? Why none is doing world pvp? Why none in pvp servers, at least EU one?
 
I m not a pvp player myself, but i like to pvp a bit in mmo's. In WS there isnt PvP, it just doesn't exist. How long if you queue for a bg? Some hours i guess. Can you play warplots, the most advertised feature of the game? Have you ever played one, just for the experience? I would love to have a great or simply descent pvp in WS, but there isn't such thing.
 
When i m suggesting to remove pvp it isn't because i hate it. Its about prioritizing the things that must be done in game. There are so many things that must be fixed that i could afford to loose pvp in order to fix the pve aspects. I could accept that cost. That's what i m saying.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I m just wondering where are all those pvp ppl. Why none in queue for bg's? Why none is arranging warplots? Why none is doing world pvp? Why none in pvp servers, at least EU one?
 
I m not a pvp player myself, but i like to pvp a bit in mmo's. In WS there isnt PvP, it just doesn't exist. How long if you queue for a bg? Some hours i guess. Can you play warplots, the most advertised feature of the game? Have you ever played one, just for the experience? I would love to have a great or simply descent pvp in WS, but there isn't such thing.
 
When i m suggesting to remove pvp it isn't because i hate it. Its about prioritizing the things that must be done in game. There are so many things that must be fixed that i could afford to loose pvp in order to fix the pve aspects. I could accept that cost. That's what i m saying.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
the reason why there's no pvp is because they done goofed. Not fixing it and instead removing it entirely is signing their own death sentence. 
By the way, same is creeping up on PvE. When was the last time you managed to queue into a vet adventure or a vet dungeon without a tank and get a group within half an hour? When was the last time normal dungeons and adventures popped at all?
----
			That seems a bit mean.  PVPers are people, too!	
----
			That's the lazy solution. Carbine needs to make it work. I'm almost exclusively a PvE player, but I would really love to get into PvP sometime, but as it is right now, I don't have the biggest desire. 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's the lazy solution. Carbine needs to make it work. I'm almost exclusively a PvE player, but I would really love to get into PvP sometime, but as it is right now, I don't have the biggest desire. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Why not focus on what is the aspect of the game that the huge majority enjoys? Thats PvE btw.
----
			
Well same as Crabine is "wasting resources" on PvP, they are also "wasting" them on Raids. Vast majority of players are not doing PvP anymore (not because all players were focused on PvE, but because current PvP is broken and many PvPers left the game already - if I would be asked to estimate no. of PvPers on release -ppl that spend at least 40% of gametime on PvP - I would say way over 50%). On the same time 90+% of game population haven't been in DS, not to mention killing 1-st boss.
That's why your initial argument is just false or if we assume it is true, I suppose Carbine should only develop new daily zone each week.
 
As for PvP vs. PvE I would agree that much stronger site of the game is PvE, therefore developer should focus on it a bit more (that I think is happening ever since release), but.... PvP should still take a solid part of the developers focus. 
 
IMO they should (a long time ago) introduced dual skill behavior for PvE and PvP content (as many games do), especially that open PvP in WS do not exist anymore, not to mention that it wasn't very good from the beginning. That would allow Carbine to balance classes in both PvP and PvE without one affecting the other. Overall PvP content is very good IMO and only tweak I would introduce would be fixed hours for warplots, make it guild fights with in-game ranking, 20 man fight and adjust it to last (with opponents on similar lvl) about 1h.
From there carbine should also consider, as mentioned before, PvP rank gear that grants only better look. By that I understand boosting 1,2k PvP gear to current 1,8k and adjust it, as soon as PvE gear would become better for PvP (actually before it of course). 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You think i dont want it too? I like to play arenas and bg's even casually. I dont hate pvp at all despite its not my priority. But can you see something in the horizon? Do you see a spark of light? I guess i must pray too for a non lazy solution and an overall fix of the game. Crossing fingers then :)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's an assumption or a gross misinterpretation of the "large percentage of people are soloing" statement.  Yes, a large amount of my time could be seen as spent soloing because I'm doing dailies, crafting or working on my house.  This does not and should not ever indicate that's what I prefer.  You start yanking core features... well what do you think happens when you yank a core feature I care about?
 
MMO's are "something for everyone" not "if ur not doin everything ur doin it rong!"
----
			
There's a lot of people who enjoy PvP when it's managed and matched correctly to ensure that fights are reasonably fair and the rewards for winning are balanced appropriately with the penalties for losing.
The fact that this game hasn't done that should not be confused with the idea that this game couldn't do that.
 
So... no. I'm not in favor of the OP's idea at all. We can all lobby for what we want without lobbying to take away the stuff that other people already have.	
----
			The solution to all your problems, OP. Put a line between PvE and PvP, and do not let any mechanics cross that line. Totally divide PvE and PvP, and balance each one individually. Boom. Everyone's happy.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The solution to all your problems, OP. Put a line between PvE and PvP, and do not let any mechanics cross that line. Totally divide PvE and PvP, and balance each one individually. Boom. Everyone's happy.
----
			
As a solo, PvE player, myself, I strongly disagree with this. From what I hear, the current state of PvP in the game is not in a great place. This does not mean, however, that there is a lack of an audience who would enjoy it were it implemented correctly.
 
With the amazing combat system that W* has, I think PvP has some great potential. Heck, even I thought Warplots sounded awesome despite being in the polar opposite demographic of who they were intended for. ("Have you seeeeen Warplots?" Love that line. XD)
 
I believe that Carbine should focus on refining what they already have as opposed to simply removing such an integral part of the experience.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I would like to start out by saying that my questions are in no way meant to be snarky, sarcastic, or an attack on you.  I ask them only because I'm not a healer or tank, I've tried out those roles and I just don't have the temperament for them(I tend to let people die/let the group wipe if someone does something stupid :P and no I don't count new player learning as stupid).
 
OK, so I see people say that because certain roles and/or classes get nerfed because they are OP in PvP it changes their PvE experience.  My question is, when it changes that experience, does it make your role/class in PvE impossible to play?  And when/if it does, do the devs work to fix the PvE issues?
 
Personally, I like to PvP.  I want W* to fix the problems so I can get back to it.  But if PvP gets removed from MMORPG's, I probably won't play them any more.  This is a multiplayer game, when you get a bunch of people together in a game like that, they're going to want to fight other players.  
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Actually yes it does and can.  If your certain class drops in dps a lot from nerfs then there is a good chance you will be sat in a raid environment.  This is more for those guilds who at least push the content some to bleeding edge.  Casual type guilds who aren't pushing content that hard it won't affect because they don't care.  But an example Mages were getting sat on a boss or 2 already in WoD because they were dead last.  So if you are a pure dps class and most to all the other classes are doing a lot better, then why would you bring that pure dps class?
 
Raiding is very big in many mmo's and a reason a good chunk of the people play mmo's.  Most pve based mmo's center around end game raiding.  So yes it very much changes the experience among other things.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Actually yes it does and can.  If your certain class drops in dps a lot from nerfs then there is a good chance you will be sat in a raid environment.  This is more for those guilds who at least push the content some to bleeding edge.  Casual type guilds who aren't pushing content that hard it won't affect because they don't care.  But an example Mages were getting sat on a boss or 2 already in WoD because they were dead last.  So if you are a pure dps class and most to all the other classes are doing a lot better, then why would you bring that pure dps class?
 
Raiding is very big in many mmo's and a reason a good chunk of the people play mmo's.  Most pve based mmo's center around end game raiding.  So yes it very much changes the experience among other things.
----
			PVP incurs the least amount of development costs.  The savings gained would be very small compared to the loss of the current PVP players, all future PVP players and any PVE focused player that wants to shift gears to PVP.  Improving PVP right now would not take a lot of resources, and none of these suggestions are new.  Give 1500 (and under) gear for free (or a significantly reduced price) to immediately boost new PVP players up and remove rating restriction on 1800 gear until next season, since the damage (even if it is just perception) of win-trading/class imbalance has already been done, and you will get a lot of people into PVP to get 1800 gear and weapons.  Yes welfare epics, initial pvper time being wasted, and forcing PVE players to PVP (but that only really applies to weapons before convergence) will be the complaints, but the bottom line is PVP participation needs to increase so you need to give that juicy carrot.  Next season, just copy WoW's system of season total earned for gear unlocks, with a weekly cap on the high-end currency, to spread out the participation over time.  Or, gear can have a low rating requirement, ~14-1500 for full set, with 1800+ rating gear giving several omni-slots (which is time savings but not power) and a different cosmetic look .	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I m just wondering where are all those pvp ppl. Why none in queue for bg's? Why none is arranging warplots? Why none is doing world pvp? Why none in pvp servers, at least EU one?
 
I m not a pvp player myself, but i like to pvp a bit in mmo's. In WS there isnt PvP, it just doesn't exist. How long if you queue for a bg? Some hours i guess. Can you play warplots, the most advertised feature of the game? Have you ever played one, just for the experience? I would love to have a great or simply descent pvp in WS, but there isn't such thing.
 
When i m suggesting to remove pvp it isn't because i hate it. Its about prioritizing the things that must be done in game. There are so many things that must be fixed that i could afford to loose pvp in order to fix the pve aspects. I could accept that cost. That's what i m saying.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think the mix of PvE+PvP is making mmo's a real mess. Classes are nerfed, messed up, destroyed, turned to one click fest in the sake of <BALANCE>.
 
WoW did this many times and now classes are crap. No choices, no customization, no real talent trees. Only a cookie cutter build and 3 buttons. SWTOR is doing the same with the last expansion. Rift did it also (still has better classes imho) as almost any other themepark mmo.
 
So, why should PvP affect my gameplay, if lets say i m playing in a PvE or even an RP server? Why should my raid healing get nerfed or changed or whatever, if my class is OP in arena? Why? I don't care about PvP and if we want to be fair the HUGE majority of players are PvE and even more Solo PvE players. Just check the demographics in any mmo. So once again, why?
 
WS has many problems and PvP is maybe the biggest one. I don't think it can be fixed tbh, at least not in the near future. So why giving funds for it? Why not just DELETE it and give all resources to PvE?
 
Ppl will loose arenas-bg's-warplots and open world pvp. But WHO plays them anyway in WS. We are not speaking for WoW or SWTOR, which are established games with huge amounts of money and Devs to support all the content, even the content that a small minority is playing. We are discussing about WS and we must focus on it.
 
So after loosing the above PvP content, what do we expect to get? First of all resources, both money and personnel, all for the sake of PvE content. We will have better classes without the PvP restrictions. Better character customization. Better talent trees and end game character progression. More funds for more and of higher quality adventures, dungeons, raids, housing, solo content, professions, customization etc. Faster, better and less buggy patches. Less @@ at forums for class unbalances, PvP gear etc.
 
Anyway i m not a game designer, i m just an old mmo player. Devs can think even more ways to get the PvP funds make a well use for PvE and the game overall state. Almost every other mmo in the market has this PvE-PvP combination. I think its time for WS to dare a huge change.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Screw you, cupcake. You are alienating SO many people with this post. What an incredulously ignorant and insensitive suggestion.
----
			
The day people stop asking to remove stuff that other people like and instead give real constructive feedback to enhance gaming will be a small step for a forum poster, and a giant leap for gaming...
 
 <_<	
----
			
Hey, gotta give my 2 cents as a pvp'er only dude.
I don't like strategy games like LoL/HotS/Dota2 due to the moving system (click-to-move) and the lack of a world to explore, as well as being able to choose from a range of different things to do when you're online. A lot of players think it this way and it's the reason why MMOs' pvp is so popular despite balance is a really though issue to address, the rewards system also feels more rewarding if you can show your mounts/tiitles to all the server :)
Removing PvP contents would sure discourage a lot of players from giving the game a try and/or keep subbing monthly, sub for what? Some solo quests? Not everyone likes raiding or have the time to do so.
 
Also the pvp community is also the one that is most likely to keep playing the game even with the lack of new contents and updates, Bloodline Champion is a good example of it. This game has the best pvp I've ever seen: balanced, no gear, no levels, no p2w shit, fast games etc.
The game isn't getting any update since at least two years, except discount sales and skins, but ppl keep logging everyday because it's just that wonderful. There might not be updates to the game but as long as the servers will be up there'll be players fighting each other for climbing new season's ladder. I logged in this morning at 9am and there were more ppl online on BloodChamp than on Luminai at 4pm.
 
Whereas PvE players demand constant updates in terms of raids and gear a solid PvP system can get a hold on more players with less effort; PvP is also streamed a lot more than PvE stuff due to competitiveness and higher skill cap. Attract big pvp streamers to the game and it'll bring more publicity to the game than 7days pass and box sale.	
----
			
Funnily enough, I think this thread is a perfect summary of the forums:
 
 
"Remove X because I personally don't enjoy it."
 
"And since I don't enjoy X, nobody else must enjoy X and therefore it must be bad for the game."
 
 
Gotta love the internet. :P	
----
			
I don't like PvP. With that said, I don't think taking it away would improve the game in any significant way. The balancing mess caused by balancing skills over one aspect of the other can be solved by just having all skills act differently depending on if the target is a mob or a player. That way balance is kept in tact on both sides of the gameplay.
 
Of course, I doubt Carbine will ever do that because they'd basically have to balance an extra skill for every skill in the game. 	
----
			
 
{| class="blockquote"
I think the mix of PvE+PvP is making mmo's a real mess. Classes are nerfed, messed up, destroyed, turned to one click fest in the sake of <BALANCE>.
 
WoW did this many times and now classes are crap. No choices, no customization, no real talent trees. Only a cookie cutter build and 3 buttons. SWTOR is doing the same with the last expansion. Rift did it also (still has better classes imho) as almost any other themepark mmo.
 
So, why should PvP affect my gameplay, if lets say i m playing in a PvE or even an RP server? Why should my raid healing get nerfed or changed or whatever, if my class is OP in arena? Why? I don't care about PvP and if we want to be fair the HUGE majority of players are PvE and even more Solo PvE players. Just check the demographics in any mmo. So once again, why?
 
WS has many problems and PvP is maybe the biggest one. I don't think it can be fixed tbh, at least not in the near future. So why giving funds for it? Why not just DELETE it and give all resources to PvE?
 
Ppl will loose arenas-bg's-warplots and open world pvp. But WHO plays them anyway in WS. We are not speaking for WoW or SWTOR, which are established games with huge amounts of money and Devs to support all the content, even the content that a small minority is playing. We are discussing about WS and we must focus on it.
 
So after loosing the above PvP content, what do we expect to get? First of all resources, both money and personnel, all for the sake of PvE content. We will have better classes without the PvP restrictions. Better character customization. Better talent trees and end game character progression. More funds for more and of higher quality adventures, dungeons, raids, housing, solo content, professions, customization etc. Faster, better and less buggy patches. Less @@ at forums for class unbalances, PvP gear etc.
 
Anyway i m not a game designer, i m just an old mmo player. Devs can think even more ways to get the PvP funds make a well use for PvE and the game overall state. Almost every other mmo in the market has this PvE-PvP combination. I think its time for WS to dare a huge change. 
----
			worst suggestion thread ever.	
----
			wat	
----
			
I think what the OP is getting at is that the resources currently being put into PvP could be put into the PvE and possibly create better ROI.
 
One thing remains certain, the devs will react to the numbers in front of them. Period.  They will make the decision that is in the best interest of the game, regardless of what individual players think. Just a fact we all have to deal with.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
One thing remains certain, the devs will react to the numbers in front of them. Period.  They will make the decision that they believe is in the best interest of the game, regardless of what individual players think. Just a fact we all have to deal with.
----
			Here's the real problem with pvp in MMOs - people absolutely do not understand the whole point of separate and distinct classes.  Compund that fact by the massive lack of teamwork and self-realization that players have and we have MMO pvp being a total mess.  In every team sport there are different positions that each player plays, i.e. roles, which are all key to the  teams success.  This teamwork requirement is absolutely possible with PuGs, when the players understand that they are playing a role on the team that is determined by their class, their skill level and their gear.  If it were possible to get players to understand this whole concept, pvp would immediately improve.  Unfortunately there are way too many lone wolfs out there.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Corrections in red, fixed for you.
 
Based on their past history, I don't think it hurts to let them know how we feel about the subject.
----