104989-sign-of-fusion-eldan-is-will-be-way-too-rare

== Content ==
			
Let me preface this by saying I'm on Contagion EU, which is a low pop server. The low amount of players have taken a toll on the AH supply of various goods, but worst of all is Sign of Fusion - Eldan. Currently it's used for elder rune sets (up to 3 signs each) and for tailoring research (for the glamer/smarth cloth - which can thankfully be reduced with talents - and for epochos stuff). Considering their rarity (I can see maybe 10 entering the market daily on my server) this a bit of a hassle but not terrible.
 
The only areas it drops - where level 50 players also frequent - are: parts of Northern Wastes/Crimson Badlands daily zones, Blighthaven (mostly just used for Scorchwing/Tree event by now), and one wing of SSM. Aside from getting extremely lucky with salvaging, or a few mobs like The Frozen Corruptor in WotW, that's it.
As daily zones are thinning out (as they would be, considering people are either tired of them or have maxed their rep by now), the supply of eldan fusion signs is going to dwindle. After all, people can run as many adventures/dungeons as they like, but other than on the path up to Moldwood Overlord Skash in SSM, they'll hardly ever see one.
 
This brings me to the new research tier for technologist up on the PTR. Refined Hybrid is going to require 2 eldan fusion signs. Luminite-Hybrid is going to require 4. This is going to be a HUGE bottleneck, considering how many people would want to use them for crafting. Assuming only the cost of the signs, my server would be able to supply 8 luminite cores. 8. For a whole server.
 
There's some disclaimers to this, obviously:
 
1) It's subject to change, possibly. But, it has to reflect some idea of what Carbine wants the material costs to be.
2) The cost might - might - be reduced by some not yet implemented tier 7 talent.
3) My server might be deader than I think, and the average amount of eldan fusion signs of 20-40 on the AH and average cost of 30-50g is an anomaly even by low pop server standards.
 
If any of these are the case then I'm glad that this post is irrelevant. I just want to make it very clear that in my view the supply of eldan fusion signs will not bear the demand of the current crafting costs. Not by a long shot. And low pop servers will have it worse as low supply is rife for manipulation. I really don't want to see prices of 1p+ per fusion sign.
 	
----
			
Need mats for runes?
 
Go farm them yourself.
 
#hardcore	
----
			They drop in Malgrave off the Flameseeker Pell, too. That's where I used to farm them up if I needed a couple.	
----
			there are some farm spot where you can farm 6 to 8 of them in a hour.	
----
			Buy Credd if you dont like to farm otherwise get into the same boat as the rest of us farm in Malgraves or Grimvault Elden Labs also seem to be a lot of signs dropping in vet dungeons.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
They drop in Malgrave off the Flameseeker Pell, too. That's where I used to farm them up if I needed a couple.
----
			You can easily farm 8 per hour on a freshly-dinged level 50.  This used to be good money a month ago on Stormtalon when they were 22-23g apiece; the price has dropped down below 17g so it's better to just harvest ore/wood/plants instead	
----
			
Get t4 harvest nodes.
 
Set to 50/50.
 
Join gather circle.
 
Make up to 3-4 plat worth of materials daily, if not more.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
there are some farm spot where you can farm 6 to 8 of them in a hour.
----
			
Easy farming lvl 45-47 mobs
 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
My problem with the current supply is not that there aren't areas to farm them. It's that these farming spots aren't areas people will go to unless for that specific purpose (or leveling up, as negligible as that demographic is). The server supply as a whole suffers because you have to go out of your way to farm them (not a lot of people do that). If it's intended, so be it, but it just seems odd that there's hardly any dungeon/adventure strain/augmented mobs. Meanwhile we get Eldan - Sign of Life by the truckload...
 
You combine that with one of the most highly demanded items people have been clamoring for since launch, well, I don't see it as a winning combination.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And when the supply in the CX goes down, people will find the farm spots, and farm them, and supply will go back up.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Get t4 harvest nodes.
 
Set to 50/50.
 
Join gather circle.
 
Make up to 3-4 plat worth of materials daily, if not more.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
... in accordance with the general availability of the item, which is a few farm spots yielding half a dozen or so an hour. Even my low pop server can go through hundreds of refined starshard power cores a day.
 
You'll basically be dealing with 0.5-1p+ Refined Hybrid cores and the AH vacuumed clean of any eldan fusion for the majority of the day. A few people running around grimvault isn't going to change that.
 
edit: I mean, I may have the wrong impression about the change, but even the regular hybrid core takes 5 eldan logic. Hybrid power cores have been cheaper than that material cost for over a month. So the change, if the current version is accurate, would give this:
 
Hybrid core: crafted version useless because it's too expensive, can be bought for 3-5g
Refined Starshard power core: 2.5-5g
 
 
 
MASSIVE MATERIAL COST GAP
 
 
 
Refined Hybrid power core: 0.5-1p or more
Luminite Hybrid power core: 1-2p or more
 
That's not getting into luminite, which no one currently has any clue about. Used only in the luminite power core (obviously).
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Don't blame the game for people's laziness.  
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I haven't? Also you're just repeating yourself.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The tone of your post seems to be blaming the game for the "lack" of Eldan signs of Fusion, when it's not the game that's lacking, it's people farming them that's lacking.  And when people see the supply going down, they'll stop being lazy because 1) necessity or 2) they want money and see an opportunity.  Just be patient, or farm them yourself. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
I have already explained how the supply - even with people farming them - isn't adequate for the massive demand that will no doubt arise for the hybrid power cores. No matter what, eldan fusion demand is going to outstrip supply by a massive margin, causing the new power cores to be massively expensive.
 
So no problem, that's just the way it's going to be, right? Well, sure, if you want to make crafting unpalatable. Crafted blue gear - according to Carbine - should be roughly on par with dungeon drops. We can already craft much better. They're looking to change this, which is probably another reason they feel confident they can release the research technologist power cores. The problem now becomes, if the current cores are already too powerful, then surely the ones about to be released can't be even more powerful. That'll just unbalance things even more. So the new power cores could potentially be on par with the current pre-nerf power cores, but now they're over 10 times as expensive.
 
Can you then begin to understand the depthless pit of despair they have to navigate with this change?
----
			You have said the same thing 3 times in a row and ignored every point I made in rebuttal, could you just agree to disagree instead of going "just farm" in response to every post I make?	
----
			
There's a lot more supply out there than what you're accounting for.  In my farm spot, I've seen precisely one person there (for about 10 mins) in the 10 hours total of fusion farming I've done over the past month, and Stonetalon is fairly high pop.  There are plenty of mobs, there just aren't enough people giving a crap at the moment because they can make more money doing other things (the price for fusions is too low).  The breakeven price for me personally is right around 20g apiece and the Stonetalon price is currently 17g, so I don't farm fusions right now.  If the price explodes like you expect it to, then I'll be out there farming the hell out of them along with 1381283190 other people.
 
Many MMOs have super-farm type mobs that are seemingly scarce, but the price for their drop never gets too high.  I remember WoW back in the TBC days had primal might and all the individual primal elements, almost identical to this system, and each element had one farm spot of like 20 mobs.  Primal fire/mote of fire was the real high-value one, and there were 1-2 people farming the Searing Elementals in Blade's Edge Mountains for just about every single hour of the day.  This game is nowhere near that utilization level.	
----
			The Pell in Malgrave drop a LOT of Greater and Eldan Signs of Fusion.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This brings me to the new research tier for technologist up on the PTR. Refined Hybrid is going to require 2 eldan fusion signs. Luminite-Hybrid is going to require 4. This is going to be a HUGE bottleneck, considering how many people would want to use them for crafting. Assuming only the cost of the signs, my server would be able to supply 8 luminite cores. 8. For a whole server.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You have said the same thing 3 times in a row and ignored every point I made in rebuttal, could you just agree to disagree instead of going "just farm" in response to every post I make?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I don't doubt you, but I'd love to see your source for the cost of relic parts and cores.  I've only seen a screenshot of the Refined Hybrid Power Core mats and I have no clue what the Luminite-Hybrid Power Core mat requirement is, nor the mats needed for the various new relic parts.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
 
beattlebilly: just read my previous posts, I've answered several of the points you make. I'm tired of having to repeat myself every time.
----
			Man. You wanna talk about rare/crazy prices, Augmented Rune Fragment is going for 37g a pop on Evindra-D right now. Yech.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Let me preface this by saying I'm on Contagion EU, which is a low pop server. The low amount of players have taken a toll on the AH supply of various goods, but worst of all is Sign of Fusion - Eldan. Currently it's used for elder rune sets (up to 3 signs each) and for tailoring research (for the glamer/smarth cloth - which can thankfully be reduced with talents - and for epochos stuff). Considering their rarity (I can see maybe 10 entering the market daily on my server) this a bit of a hassle but not terrible.
 
The only areas it drops - where level 50 players also frequent - are: parts of Northern Wastes/Crimson Badlands daily zones, Blighthaven (mostly just used for Scorchwing/Tree event by now), and one wing of SSM. Aside from getting extremely lucky with salvaging, or a few mobs like The Frozen Corruptor in WotW, that's it.
As daily zones are thinning out (as they would be, considering people are either tired of them or have maxed their rep by now), the supply of eldan fusion signs is going to dwindle. After all, people can run as many adventures/dungeons as they like, but other than on the path up to Moldwood Overlord Skash in SSM, they'll hardly ever see one.
 
This brings me to the new research tier for technologist up on the PTR. Refined Hybrid is going to require 2 eldan fusion signs. Luminite-Hybrid is going to require 4. This is going to be a HUGE bottleneck, considering how many people would want to use them for crafting. Assuming only the cost of the signs, my server would be able to supply 8 luminite cores. 8. For a whole server.
 
There's some disclaimers to this, obviously:
 
1) It's subject to change, possibly. But, it has to reflect some idea of what Carbine wants the material costs to be.
2) The cost might - might - be reduced by some not yet implemented tier 7 talent.
3) My server might be deader than I think, and the average amount of eldan fusion signs of 20-40 on the AH and average cost of 30-50g is an anomaly even by low pop server standards.
 
If any of these are the case then I'm glad that this post is irrelevant. I just want to make it very clear that in my view the supply of eldan fusion signs will not bear the demand of the current crafting costs. Not by a long shot. And low pop servers will have it worse as low supply is rife for manipulation. I really don't want to see prices of 1p+ per fusion sign.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Man. You wanna talk about rare/crazy prices, Augmented Rune Fragment is going for 37g a pop on Evindra-D right now. Yech.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You can make a killing on base materials.  The CX is playable, even with a lot of prices bottomed out beneath even vendor prices (because people don't know how to CX, apparently).  I always check everything I don't need anymore, and you'd be amazed at the kind of profit you make on the most common fragments and mats compared to how long it takes to farm them.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah I'm kitting out my PVP set with runes and lord the fragments are destroying my wallet. Can't be helped I suppose. I've made nearly 30p since the patch dropped off the decor from the Daggerstone boxes though so I can't complain too much. Evindra decor market too strong
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is how the game economy works.  Supply and demand.  If the supply doesn't bear out the demand, then it should drive people into the area to farm them up to satisfy the market.  As a player, the price players are charging on the CX is the price that item is.  You have two options:
 
1.  Suck it up, pay what they're asking, and increase the prices of your products if you're selling.
 
2.  Go out, farm it up, use what you need, and undercut the CX to make your own profit, since you think the items should be cheaper.
 
If the CX literally runs out of something, throw your hands up and cheer!  You're a monopoly!  You get to drop the items on the CX and set the price at whatever you think a person would bother paying!
 
But I don't see that happening.  Honestly, if what you're thinking will happen happens, trust me that the price won't stay high long; people will go out and farm the ever-loving Hell out of anything they think will make a quick buck.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 I'm trying to make a point to Carbine that the massive demand / general usage of power cores doesn't jive with the material costs, especially not when they haven't made any proper natural inlet of eldan fusion into the economy, through adventures/dungeons or otherwise.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's a player made issue, not a Carbine made issue.  They've given us the areas to farm them, players are choosing not to.  And there's plenty of areas outside dungeons/adventures that they drop from.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Your argument is literally the same regardless of the availability and demand of any given item. It could be 10 times as rare and I'd still be staring at this argument. Could this maybe tell you that the issue I'm having is not "I don't understand economy 101"? I'm trying to make a point to Carbine that the massive demand / general usage of power cores doesn't jive with the material costs, especially not when they haven't made any proper natural inlet of eldan fusion into the economy, through adventures/dungeons or otherwise.
 
Also earlier in the thread (on farming them):
 
 
So the minimum price is 40g + leftover mats for the refined hybrid, since randian supermen or whoever surely won't farm fusion signs if it's inefficient.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Player economies are dynamic; that's the fun of them.  You could notice there's a huge deficiency of an item, go farm it, and get money back for it.  If they're too low, you can sell the products at the vendor, so there is a price floor.  But we can't complain about the CX; the prices on there are our fault.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It's both.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Except there is a floor on gold made per hour, because of vendor prices of gathered materials. That's reflected in every other material on the CX. If you can make more items pr. hour vendoring stuff / selling stuff near vendor price on CX, then it's not efficient to farm fusion signs, so they won't. Ergo there's a floor on eldan fusion price as well, regardless of server. That floor is - in my opinion - too high.
 
That also means that there's no meaningful distinction between CX cost and time expended farming fusion signs, either. Your suggestion of farming them is the same as asking me to buy them, baring discrepancies in 'real cost'.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Do you know what the vendor price is for Eldar Fusion?  It's 17 silver.  No one's going to ever vendor that, unless they do it by accident, and it's not going to keep the CX cost too high.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Could you take the time to read and understand my post before you reply? Thanks.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It doesn't apply well when you realize you are talking about Signs of Fusion: Eldan.  And you used that as your example in the post too.  
 
I understand perfectly what you were saying, but in this specific case it doesn't apply well.  If we were talking about Ore, Wood, Leather, sure that's applicable, but to the specific item you are basing your whole thread on, no.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
http://imgur.com/a/EyxSF Here you go.
 
 
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
Wow...those are...quite the mat requirements!  I don't think I'd even *heard* of luminite before seeing that.  Hmm...any chance you could post the consumables and gadgets too?   :)
 
Looks like carbine is keenly aware of how many research fragments most technologist will have when this drops and are determined to make us burn through then quickly just to get the good stuff...lol.  C'est la vie!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Let me be nice and clarify it for you then, since you still don't understand it:
 
If: you can make (as an example) 1plat per hour farming with gathering professions and vendoring the items then,
 
You're not going to want to farm fusion signs if the total amount sold on the CX amounts to 80g per hour, thus;
 
There's an effective floor on the CX price of fusion signs if the demand exceeds supply without farming.
----
			
Because of this thread I went out and farmed some, got 8 eldan fusion in 20-25 minutes.
 
Spent like 5plat on those things a few days ago rerolling a crafted helmet over and over.	
----
			
I'm not sure how slow you people farm or what but I usually get 10-13 Eldan Fusions an hour.
Which is around 2p an hour (or more like 2,5 if you count in vendoring the other stuff the mobs drop).
 
Doesnt sound too bad to me.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Sure, give me a sec and i'll whip some up.
 
edit: http://imgur.com/a/lRrhJ
 
Worth noting that the armor one is probably bugged :P
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm not sure how slow you people farm or what but I usually get 10-13 Eldan Fusions an hour.
Which is around 2p an hour (or more like 2,5 if you count in vendoring the other stuff the mobs drop).
 
Doesnt sound too bad to me.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Let me preface this by saying I'm on Contagion EU, which is a low pop server. The low amount of players have taken a toll on the AH supply of various goods, but worst of all is Sign of Fusion - Eldan. Currently it's used for elder rune sets (up to 3 signs each) and for tailoring research (for the glamer/smarth cloth - which can thankfully be reduced with talents - and for epochos stuff). Considering their rarity (I can see maybe 10 entering the market daily on my server) this a bit of a hassle but not terrible.
 
The only areas it drops - where level 50 players also frequent - are: parts of Northern Wastes/Crimson Badlands daily zones, Blighthaven (mostly just used for Scorchwing/Tree event by now), and one wing of SSM. Aside from getting extremely lucky with salvaging, or a few mobs like The Frozen Corruptor in WotW, that's it.
As daily zones are thinning out (as they would be, considering people are either tired of them or have maxed their rep by now), the supply of eldan fusion signs is going to dwindle. After all, people can run as many adventures/dungeons as they like, but other than on the path up to Moldwood Overlord Skash in SSM, they'll hardly ever see one.
 
This brings me to the new research tier for technologist up on the PTR. Refined Hybrid is going to require 2 eldan fusion signs. Luminite-Hybrid is going to require 4. This is going to be a HUGE bottleneck, considering how many people would want to use them for crafting. Assuming only the cost of the signs, my server would be able to supply 8 luminite cores. 8. For a whole server.
 
There's some disclaimers to this, obviously:
 
1) It's subject to change, possibly. But, it has to reflect some idea of what Carbine wants the material costs to be.
2) The cost might - might - be reduced by some not yet implemented tier 7 talent.
3) My server might be deader than I think, and the average amount of eldan fusion signs of 20-40 on the AH and average cost of 30-50g is an anomaly even by low pop server standards.
 
If any of these are the case then I'm glad that this post is irrelevant. I just want to make it very clear that in my view the supply of eldan fusion signs will not bear the demand of the current crafting costs. Not by a long shot. And low pop servers will have it worse as low supply is rife for manipulation. I really don't want to see prices of 1p+ per fusion sign.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Not true. There are several areas/mobs they drop from pretty frequently. My server has 4800 in stock at the moment going at a 45 gold rate. I farmed plenty of these way back as I was leveling my tailoring profession and it was never an issue or time consuming.
----
			
10-12 signs in Malgrave at Pell is typical for an hour farming. From what I've experienced, this is the best farm location. Worth it if sales price on CX is above 18g. On my server the price over the past week has been as high as 39g and as low as 16g.
 
The above being said, Pell location can only support one person...maybe two, yet unlikely. 24 hour round the clock farming will generated 240 - 360 signs. Let's say all other locations combined will match this. So 480-720  max available per day. Not going to happen so let's say 1/3 of this will be added to CX everyday. This may be enough to support low population server, yet not enough for high population server so I can understand the OP's concern.
 
However,
 
Instead of increasing the drop rate on signs. Carbine needs to make better use of all sign levels.  For instance make 5 regular signs = 1 greater sign and make 5 greater sign = 1 major sign, 5 major = 1 eldan. This way it makes all sign levels are useful, alleviates the high prices on some eldan signs, and makes major signs and below more valuable.
 
Signs of Fusion- Major go for 75s on my server (what the heck are they used for? anything?). If the above was implemented it would increase their value to 2-3g and the price of Eldan would drop 10-15g. Seems like a good equilibrium. 	
----
			just doing the quests in the phage labs i pucked up 8 of them, try there	
----
			
This is funny an not indicative of true drop rate at Malgrave---> Pell, yet but drops seem "bursty". You can go 20-30 minutes without a drop, then have a mob  drop a couple.
 	
----
			
Can somone take screenshot of other item on PTR ? Like Medishot, Field Tech and Boost ? Maybe talents too ^^
 
Thanks !	
----