144670-amp-and-ability-points-unlock-change

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Hello!
 
A while ago there was a discussion about making it easier to have alts and one of the things that was discussed was ability and amp point unlocks.
Today's patch lowered the drop rate of them in the world. I was naive to think that the higher drop chance was there to make it easier on anyone.
 
So, the question is, is anything being done to make it easier to unlock all amp and ability points on alts? If the drop chance wasn't correct, any chance of having them on the glory vendor (like we have them on sale for prestige)? Maybe removing the EG week cap? Reputations being account wide?
 
I understand that some people think the whole situation is fine. I honestly don't think that's the case and am just echoing the same sentiment as before F2P, which was said to help making alts easier. Also think mounts, dyes and whatnot should be account wide, but that's a discussion for another thread ;)
 
Thanks
 	
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			You van now farm Gold dungeons and get them, so nothing change at the end. Its probably easier now, since you now Gold equals Amp or Ability and just send them towards your alt.
			
				
	Edited October 21, 2015 by Sephirox	
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Farming gold dungeons still gives me 1/5 of a chance on one unlock. As I understand, golding a dungeon give the party 1 amp/ability unlock. If everyone gets one, then it's indeed easier, but not as easy to lose BGs to get them. I could pvp then, right? Just really dislike it.
 
I don't understand why there isn't an option to buy them for glory. EG isn't the proper comparison to prestige.	
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if youve used the STL gold AMP point, for example, you cant roll on it now when it drops
 
everyone who didnt can and is able to sell it
 
 
needs to be adressed	
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I hate to say this because I know I'm going to get uber flamed for it. But when your character hits 50 you should just have all of the amps and ability points you need for a max level build. The whole grind to get more amps and ability points is just about the laziest, most transparent and boring time sink in this entire game and I think it forces players into content they don't really feel like doing, and really discourages making alts.
 
Just get rid of it.
			
				
	Edited October 21, 2015 by Thelonious	
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I hate to say this because I know I'm going to get uber flamed for it. But when your character hits 50 you should just have all of the amps and ability points you need for a max level build. The whole grind to get more amps and ability points is just about the laziest, most transparent and boring time sink in this entire game and I think it forces players into content they don't really feel like doing, and really discourages making alts.
 
Just get rid of it.
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I hate to say this because I know I'm going to get uber flamed for it. But when your character hits 50 you should just have all of the amps and ability points you need for a max level build. The whole grind to get more amps and ability points is just about the laziest, most transparent and boring time sink in this entire game and I think it forces players into content they don't really feel like doing, and really discourages making alts.
 
Just get rid of it.
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I've gotten about 2 amps and 2 abilities as random drops while leveling Ng Mui, so seems more common now.
Fastest way is still Battgrounds. If you go battlegrounds, please buy the full blue set pvp gear under season 2, for coin, its around 1 plat in total.
Also gold on all Expeditions (the old shiphands).
			
				
	Edited October 21, 2015 by Ng Mui	
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I've gotten about 2 amps and 2 abilities as random drops while leveling Ng Mui, so seems more common now.
Fastest way is still Battgrounds. If you go battlegrounds, please buy the full blue set pvp gear under season 2, for coin, its around 1 plat in total.
Also gold on all Expeditions (the old shiphands).
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You van now farm Gold dungeons and get them, so nothing change at the end. Its probably easier now, since you now Gold equals Amp or Ability and just send them towards your alt.
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			In the past, I've defended the idea of progressing your character through amp/ability unlocks, because I understand the content was not balanced around people having them. But more and more, it does feel like players are expected to have full unlocks to play the game as intended. Having a T8/T8/T4 build should be viable for all classes, just not as powerful. But there are some builds that are EXTREMELY nerfed if you can't take 3 T8s (like a warrrior buffbot).	
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I've gotten about 2 amps and 2 abilities as random drops while leveling Ng Mui, so seems more common now.
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			I don't understand why they would lower the rate from where it was. The new prices on the Ah and finding them made it much more feasible to be alt friendly. Let's not pretend that you don't need those bad boys to make real progression.	
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Can someone explain all this "amp" grind and stuff?, i dont understand what are you guys talking about, dont we get skill points and amps each level and once we are max level we get the max... like any other game?, i just dont understand this.
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			Can someone explain all this "amp" grind and stuff?, i dont understand what are you guys talking about, dont we get skill points and amps each level and once we are max level we get the max... like any other game?, i just dont understand this.	
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Somebody have the Picard *facepalm* pic handy?
 
CRB are you getting ready to sell these tier unlocks on the cash shop?  Sure smells like it.	
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			What the hek is going on?	
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At max level there are still several empty spots you can fill, both for ability and amp points. It's meant to further your character progression even after you hit max. But it doesn't really feel that way. Perhaps it's because most of the vet players have them, so all of the guids assume them, but either way, most people feel like they are pre-requisites to doing the hardest content.
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Today's patch lowered the drop rate of them in the world. I was naive to think that the higher drop chance was there to make it easier on anyone.
 
This is dumb, haven't even gotten one in forever.  Now I deffinetly won't be getting any hehe.	
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			Ok but now there available in auction so is it really that bad? How do we require them?	
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Ok but now there available in auction so is it really that bad? How do we require them?
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That sounds like a terrible game design choice... specially when all this elitist assholes are around...
 
How annoying is this?, i mean if i reach level 50 would i be able to make a build or im gonna need to farm like an idiot for hours just to get my build complete?
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Can someone answer this?, i really dont want to grind like an idiot when i get to level 50, i mean thats why we level in the first place, this takes away all the effort and gratification of becoming 50 if you still need to grind your ass to even being able to function, seriously i need an honest answer because if i do indeed need to grind like an idiot then thats it, im done with WS.
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Can someone answer this?, i really dont want to grind like an idiot when i get to level 50, i mean thats why we level in the first place, this takes away all the effort and gratification of becoming 50 if you still need to grind your ass to even being able to function, seriously i need an honest answer because if i do indeed need to grind like an idiot then thats it, im done with WS.
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The drop rates have been significantly increased, so they're pretty easy to come by on the AH (and for decently cheap).
 
you can also purchase them with prestiege (pvp currency).
 
There are some you get for renown from the renown vendor at your housing plot.
 
gold all the expeditions for some easy ones.
 
the grindy way is getting them from rep and the elder gem vendor.
 
And you get 2 by default for leveling your path up (one ability one amp)
 
The fastest way is purchasing them with plat and prestige. 	
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Getting that last T8 ability from points is pretty big, but it' still not needed for even vet dungeons. 
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You get an Ability/Amp for reaching Max Level in your Path. You get an Ability/Amp for doing Expeditions/Dungeons. You can buy all Abilities/Amps by doing PvP ( Takes around a week or so ); You get Amp/Abilities by buying with renown. You get Abilities/Amps by Getting Gold in Dungeons. You get Abilities/Amps by maxing Rep in a daily zone ( Some take only 1-2 weeks max)
 
Also, You can make builds without max amps / abilities...Most likely the majority plays with builds that have not use max abilities /amps.	
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I hate to say this because I know I'm going to get uber flamed for it. But when your character hits 50 you should just have all of the amps and ability points you need for a max level build. The whole grind to get more amps and ability points is just about the laziest, most transparent and boring time sink in this entire game and I think it forces players into content they don't really feel like doing, and really discourages making alts.
 
Just get rid of it.
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Wait.,. wait wait wait... wait... waaaaaaiiiittt a minute.
 
Rewarded for gold completion?
 
Did Carbine learn nothing of the original launch? - Am I the only person here who remembers a major part why Wildstar's initial launch was so troubled? 
 
During the original launch, the best dungeon drops were tied to getting gold, this resulted in a situation where the veteran players only needed items that dropped if the party got gold. As a consequence, if a party failed the optional requirements for gold, the veteran players who only needed gold, would bail and leave the rest of the PUG in the lurch. Tying the ability point to gold is likely going to create the same pattern; people who's main reason for running the dungeon is the point at the end may well bail early if gold is out of reach for that team.
 
It is of course douchey, and ill advised; there is plenty other, better ways to get those points. But never under-estimate people's capacity to be stubborn/stupid
 
 
tl;dr - Attaching critical item drops to gold completion, is going to encourage the people who need those drops to bail if a party drops the ball.
			
				
	Edited October 22, 2015 by RyuujinZER0	
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Except that points are much easier attain by doing pvp or other things.
 
You don't have to attain gold, but it is a nice target. You also achieve a title for completing the dungeon at that level. There are plenty of ways to attain the points, suited for all different playstyles.	
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Wait.,. wait wait wait... wait... waaaaaaiiiittt a minute.
 
Rewarded for gold completion?
 
Did Carbine learn nothing of the original launch? - Am I the only person here who remembers a major part why Wildstar's initial launch was so troubled? 
 
During the original launch, the best dungeon drops were tied to getting gold, this resulted in a situation where the veteran players only needed items that dropped if the party got gold. As a consequence, if a party failed the optional requirements for gold, the veteran players who only needed gold, would bail and leave the rest of the PUG in the lurch. Tying the ability point to gold is likely going to create the same pattern; people who's main reason for running the dungeon is the point at the end may well bail early if gold is out of reach for that team.
 
It is of course douchey, and ill advised; there is plenty other, better ways to get those points. But never under-estimate people's capacity to be stupid.
 
 
tl;dr - Attaching critical item drops to gold completion, is going to encourage the people who need those drops to bail if a party drops the ball.
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I hate to say this because I know I'm going to get uber flamed for it. But when your character hits 50 you should just have all of the amps and ability points you need for a max level build. 
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Except that points are much easier attain by doing pvp or other things.
 
You don't have to attain gold, but it is a nice target. You also achieve a title for completing the dungeon at that level. There are plenty of ways to attain the points, suited for all different playstyles.
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Telling me that the fastest rate towards filling out my PVE stuff is to do PVP is obnoxious. And PVP is by far the fastest way to get them. Also money.
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Telling me to do pve to get my points was obnoxious too :P I hate dailies, I don't go for golds in dungeons just for fun and I spend most of my time beating up people in bgs 
 
I think there is a good balance to be quite honest, im not sure if the renown points can be bought multple times, but if they can't they should implement that maybe to make it a little fairer?
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Ouch, really?
 
That seems a bit extortionate! :(
 
I feel kinda bad for the pure pve'ers now. Come on crabene, be fair!
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Can someone answer this?, i really dont want to grind like an idiot when i get to level 50, i mean thats why we level in the first place, this takes away all the effort and gratification of becoming 50 if you still need to grind your ass to even being able to function, seriously i need an honest answer because if i do indeed need to grind like an idiot then thats it, im done with WS.
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They can, but it takes an obnoxious amount of 200k renown to even get 1.
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Ouch, really?
 
That seems a bit extortionate! :(
 
I feel kinda bad for the pure pve'ers now. Come on crabene, be fair!
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They can, but it takes an obnoxious amount of 200k renown to even get 1.
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Those are one time use only so why bother?  I mean by the time you could grind the renown for one AMP you'd be able to play enough PvP matches to get most if not the whole set.
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So you cant even get the last tier of your skills without grinding?
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I will never understand why people see playing the game as a grind. If you like PvE you will at some point want to do gold dungeons anyway with your premaid. because its fun...
if you like pvp you will get everything there. Even if you are not much into pvp you might join if you guild group asks you. thats how i got my amps there after launch.
+ they are really cheap now. dont want to do pvp? just do pve content to earn gold or min/max at the auction house.
dont like any of it? why do you even play the game??	
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last time I checked amps were 4plat -  tier unlocks were 7plat. 
 
Credd only buys you 9 plat
 
so they are super  expensive to buy on the ah for a person that has life commitments.
 
 
Those that  have the time and know how to farm gold, it may be affordable to them, but they will be the minority.	
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last time I checked amps were 4plat -  tier unlocks were 7plat. 
 
Credd only buys you 9 plat
 
so they are super  expensive to buy on the ah for a person that has life commitments.
 
 
Those that  have the time and know how to farm gold, it may be affordable to them, but they will be the minority.
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I think some of you completely missed the point of the thread or just didn't read it.
 
This is about alts. I understand that Pve has many avenues to get the unlock points. I've been through all of them with my main. I maxed reputations, got some gold dungeons, gold adventures and shiphands, bought them with renown (lol), EG, money. It was a grind, even though it was playing the game. It is very slow compared to pvp. I have 6 lv 50s, I won't go through all that with the 5 alts.
 
This is also about the lowered droprate of points in the world. The lower prices in the AH won't stay like that because they lowered the droprate.
 
 
 
The AH/CE is not for pvers only. PVP gives a lot of gold, as I've been told, so that avenue is still there for them. Pvping gives xp and thus, EGs. Another avenue opened to pvpers. Those two avenues of getting unlocks don't matter to pvpers, as prestige is just way to easy to gain and spend to fully unlock your toon.
 
All I'm saying is that pvers don't have an analogue to that. I can't just run veteran dungeons over and over again and fully unlock a toon like pvpers can running bgs over and over again. Renown isn't an analogue. It's a single use very expensive purchase, as it was already mentioned here. EG isn't an analogue either, as we have a weekly cap on it. You can't get one amp point in a week with it...
 
Gold dunegons now drop a "boe" unlock.  Well, you'll have to roll against 4 other players for it and the difficulty of getting a gold dungeons in a pug without the group being completely overgeared for it isn't an analogue to running bgs in a pug. Dungeon mobs can drop them.... but the droprate is lower now and you still have to roll for them. PVP loot bags won't make you roll against the bg team when they give you an unlock...
Also, the dungeon unlocks are single use only. They could have made them a plain amp/ability unlock, but no. You can only get one STL amp unlock.
 
 
IMO it's completely pointless to discuss if those unlocks are necessary or not. Carbine balances the classes assuming fully unlocked toons. Of course you can raid without them, the same way you don't need boosts, food and whatnot. Technically you don;t need DS gear, you can fully raid DS in GA gear, but you don't do that, right? Full amps/ability points is a big deal. It changes rotations, gives power and a toon that has the tools which the class was balanced on. We don't need anything in the end, going through that line of thought. I don't need my alts! ......
 
 
So, droprates are lower. Prices will go up. Putting repeatable unlocks in the glory vendor won't hurt anyone and will create an analogue to buying them with prestige. Makes it easier to get them with alts. Pvpers aren't restricted to prestige when fully unlocking their toons, but seeing how easy it is with it, they don't bother with other avenues. The way it is right now, people aren't incentivized to have alts. After getting to 50 you won't get a fully functioning toon (as classes are balanced around) without the unlocks. I went through all the hoops of getting them in pve and won't do it again. Pvpers have it a lot easier and pve should be brought to par. If glory isn't good enough, just have EG be account wide and without a weekly cap. That would help alts a lot.
 
Not even touching the fact that glory now allows you to buy rune fragments, but not unlocks. Not touching the fact that many other aspects of the game won't help alts. The whole discussion on store items being toon locked, dyes, mounts... this is just another aspect, but one that changes how you play the game.
 
 
Edit: more info on gold dungeons unlocks
			
				
	Edited October 22, 2015 by Oddo	
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After getting to 50 you won't get a fully functioning toon (as classes are balanced around) without the unlocks
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