106681-revisiting-the-bone-drop-rates

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Hi all,
 
@R_oches recently sent a tweet, reminding me this is a topic we haven't covered in-depth in quite some time: "@vikingnoah Are leather and especially Bone droprates at a place the Devs are happy with? Outfitting is a chore to grind/level."
 
I'll answer here, due to Twitter's character limit. The answer is sort of a mixed bag, so I'll try to hit briefly on all the main points:
~ The short answer is that, overall, Bone drop rates are slimmer than they should be. There are some things Survivalists should understand, but there are also a variety of fixes we're working on.
~ Firstly, Carcasses are the main source of Bone. If you are not a Survivalist, your chances of finding Bone are severely reduced. This is by design. Bone is also found occasionally when salvaging Medium armor or Support Systems.
~ Secondly, Carcasses drop from beasts. If you go out to hunt for Carcasses, you should know that there are many creatures that will not drop them: bots, elementals, most humanoids, and so on. Instead, hunt creatures like Mammodin, Girrok, Buzzbings, Scrab, etc to find Carcasses. I also recommend Ikthians, the fish-like humanoids.
~ Also on the topic of creature types, our investigations revealed a few creatures that either dropped Carcasses too rarely or were not dropping them at all. Yetis and Malverines fall into this category. We are fixing this issue.
~ Additionally, we are re-examining and revising the loot tiers (example: Thick Leather vs Reinforced Leather) to make sure that Leather/Pelt/Bone received from creatures at specific levels drop appropriately-tiered materials. The long story short here is that there was too much "luck" involved with getting the materials one desires while hunting creatures at certain levels. Compare this with Mining, for example. Miners can see a node on the map, immediately determine whether they want to go harvest that material, and act accordingly. By comparison, Survivalists could not determine desired targets as easily.
 
Aside from their wood-harvesting ability, our high-concept goal for Survivalists is to determine where to get Outfitter materials by hunting and killing. I still believe that those who have done their research have reaped rewards of selling (some portion of) the Bone they've gathered on the Commodities Exchange. Considering the issues we've discovered, I see the overall state of gathering Outfitter materials as lean, but stable.	
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Aside from their wood-harvesting ability, our high-concept goal for Survivalists is to determine where to get Outfitter materials by hunting and killing. I still believe that those who have done their research have reaped rewards of selling (some portion of) the Bone they've gathered on the Commodities Exchange. Considering the issues we've discovered, I see the overall state of gathering Outfitter materials as lean, but stable.
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			Yeah, I can make 10 pieces of Heavy armor in the cost it takes me to make 1 piece of Medium going off of the prices in the CX.  Then on top of that, for my server specifically.  Medium armor sells for less than Light and Heavy and the AH	
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~ Additionally, we are re-examining and revising the loot tiers (example: Thick Leather vs Reinforced Leather) to make sure that Leather/Pelt/Bone received from creatures at specific levels drop appropriately-tiered materials. The long story short here is that there was too much "luck" involved with getting the materials one desires while hunting creatures at certain levels. Compare this with Mining, for example. Miners can see a node on the map, immediately determine whether they want to go harvest that material, and act accordingly. By comparison, Survivalists could not determine desired targets as easily.
 
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			So are we to then assume that there will be clearly labeled or specifically colored mobs on maps designated as higher volume of a specific leather/bone drop? You're comparing apples to oranges a bit with the mining anaolgy and a bit more explanation would be appreciated. I'd also like to suggest that as survivalists we have our farming weapon changed to some form of a sci-fi axe, so at the very least it performs the role of both hunter and gatherer, and not designated tree farmer to simply afford our wares. Survivalist pairs well with arch, but paired with outfitter I feel we do not get enough from our thickets to justify it being a shared node in its current state. Hopefully the changes will bring down the costs and help our farming, because 4-7g (at least on my server) is bad. Thick bones cost more than that, and they are for L25 gear.	
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Firstly thank you for the reply.....
 
Why not simply add a feature to survivalist (similar to relic hunter and mining) that has a chance to spawn a creature when we begin harvesting a tree node. This creature could drop leather and a chance at bone. There are already creatures in the game...for instance in Galeras, that are burrowed and who's tails stick up out of the ground and look very similar to tree nodes.
 
The simple fact is time is valuable. If I need materials for crafting I should be able to go to said location and farm animals for leather and bone at a decent percentage drop. Leather after all is not/should not be rare. The idea of going out and farming Tress only to turn around and vendor them or play the exchange so I can afford the mats I need to craft my wears is insulting and a waste of time.
Here is an example....
There is a cave in Algoroc you go in for the second part of Judge questline to find botsmith that has no fewer than 30 iron nodes in it. From that cave alone you can nearly finish novice weapon/armor smithing. I personally have leveled 4 characters (1being survivalist) through all of Algoroc, Galeras and the first part of whitevale. I salvaged a good portion of my quest rewards, did every quest, quite a few challenges and ended up with a cumulative total of 9 thick bone, and 100+ split leather. Thick bone is the least represented and most expensive tier of Bone on my server (Pergo) on the exchange at about 120units for upwards for 4.5g a piece.    	
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			You should also consider making carcass drops personal.	
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That you could feasibly be OK with survivalist-Outfitter is just further proof that some devs are completely out of touch with their own game. Anyone that's played the combo knows what a chore and grindfest it is in comparison to miner/ armor or weaponsmiths. 
 
I've got expert research in smithing and outfitting and I find this dev's commentary to be insulting. "Lean"! Talk about an understatement. 	
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			I think I got one from a salvage meat item in Malgrave adventure and thats it. Never seen anymore of them.	
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Hi all,
 
 
@R_oches recently sent a tweet, reminding me this is a topic we haven't covered in-depth in quite some time: "@vikingnoah Are leather and especially Bone droprates at a place the Devs are happy with? Outfitting is a chore to grind/level."
 
I'll answer here, due to Twitter's character limit. The answer is sort of a mixed bag, so I'll try to hit briefly on all the main points:
~ The short answer is that, overall, Bone drop rates are slimmer than they should be. There are some things Survivalists should understand, but there are also a variety of fixes we're working on.
~ Firstly, Carcasses are the main source of Bone. If you are not a Survivalist, your chances of finding Bone are severely reduced. This is by design. Bone is also found occasionally when salvaging Medium armor or Support Systems.
~ Secondly, Carcasses drop from beasts. If you go out to hunt for Carcasses, you should know that there are many creatures that will not drop them: bots, elementals, most humanoids, and so on. Instead, hunt creatures like Mammodin, Girrok, Buzzbings, Scrab, etc to find Carcasses. I also recommend Ikthians, the fish-like humanoids.
~ Also on the topic of creature types, our investigations revealed a few creatures that either dropped Carcasses too rarely or were not dropping them at all. Yetis and Malverines fall into this category. We are fixing this issue.
~ Additionally, we are re-examining and revising the loot tiers (example: Thick Leather vs Reinforced Leather) to make sure that Leather/Pelt/Bone received from creatures at specific levels drop appropriately-tiered materials. The long story short here is that there was too much "luck" involved with getting the materials one desires while hunting creatures at certain levels. Compare this with Mining, for example. Miners can see a node on the map, immediately determine whether they want to go harvest that material, and act accordingly. By comparison, Survivalists could not determine desired targets as easily.
 
Aside from their wood-harvesting ability, our high-concept goal for Survivalists is to determine where to get Outfitter materials by hunting and killing. I still believe that those who have done their research have reaped rewards of selling (some portion of) the Bone they've gathered on the Commodities Exchange. Considering the issues we've discovered,
 I see the overall state of gathering Outfitter materials as lean, but stable.
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You should also consider making carcass drops personal.
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~ Also on the topic of creature types, our investigations revealed a few creatures that either dropped Carcasses too rarely or were not dropping them at all. Yetis and Malverines fall into this category. We are fixing this issue.
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UPDATE: This is issue is more widespread than initially conveyed, and series of fixes is underway.
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Any ETA on this?  I need thick bone at the moment, for the first time on my main.  I use my Outfitter prof to gear myself as I level, and right now I can't do that for lack of thick bone.  Sucks doing quests with subpar gear, takes longer to kill the mobs and such.
 
Can't you just make the thicket drop more than it does, or at least give you X amount per day, then no more, etc.?	
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			Sweet eldan yes! A guildie and myself went out to the exile side of Malgrave for over an hour collecting carcasses, He let me have them all because I needed the bones to make something for him. After an hour I had 35 carcasses, after slavaging them I walked away with 11 bones. 	
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UPDATE: This is issue is more widespread than initially conveyed, and series of fixes is underway.
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Hi all,
 
@R_oches recently sent a tweet, reminding me this is a topic we haven't covered in-depth in quite some time: "@vikingnoah Are leather and especially Bone droprates at a place the Devs are happy with? Outfitting is a chore to grind/level."
 
I'll answer here, due to Twitter's character limit. The answer is sort of a mixed bag, so I'll try to hit briefly on all the main points:
~ The short answer is that, overall, Bone drop rates are slimmer than they should be. There are some things Survivalists should understand, but there are also a variety of fixes we're working on.
~ Firstly, Carcasses are the main source of Bone. If you are not a Survivalist, your chances of finding Bone are severely reduced. This is by design. Bone is also found occasionally when salvaging Medium armor or Support Systems.
~ Secondly, Carcasses drop from beasts. If you go out to hunt for Carcasses, you should know that there are many creatures that will not drop them: bots, elementals, most humanoids, and so on. Instead, hunt creatures like Mammodin, Girrok, Buzzbings, Scrab, etc to find Carcasses. I also recommend Ikthians, the fish-like humanoids.
~ Also on the topic of creature types, our investigations revealed a few creatures that either dropped Carcasses too rarely or were not dropping them at all. Yetis and Malverines fall into this category. We are fixing this issue.
~ Additionally, we are re-examining and revising the loot tiers (example: Thick Leather vs Reinforced Leather) to make sure that Leather/Pelt/Bone received from creatures at specific levels drop appropriately-tiered materials. The long story short here is that there was too much "luck" involved with getting the materials one desires while hunting creatures at certain levels. Compare this with Mining, for example. Miners can see a node on the map, immediately determine whether they want to go harvest that material, and act accordingly. By comparison, Survivalists could not determine desired targets as easily.
 
Aside from their wood-harvesting ability, our high-concept goal for Survivalists is to determine where to get Outfitter materials by hunting and killing. I still believe that those who have done their research have reaped rewards of selling (some portion of) the Bone they've gathered on the Commodities Exchange. Considering the issues we've discovered, I see the overall state of gathering Outfitter materials as lean, but stable.
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			8 gold JUST for my dailies...at teir 2....Serious bro, you need to fix this. I wasn't even able to craft my own gear as I progressed because of drop rates...HOW could you POSSIBLY think that's okay?	
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NO, just NO...it sucks...it's not lean...it sucks.
 
Look man, if you just increased the drop on the Thicket from 2x Leather, to like 10 or twelve...then life would be perfect. Just like mining.
 
 
Do you understand, that with current leather drop rates, I CANNOT even do my dailies.... let alone progress in my tech tree....come on... seriously?
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You should also consider making carcass drops personal.
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8 gold JUST for my dailies...at teir 2....
 
 
Serious bro, you need to fix this. I wasn't even able to craft my own gear as I progressed because of drop rates...HOW could you POSSIBLY think that's okay?
 
 
Go to a lvl 15-20 zone and farm the leather. Take an hour or two and farm enough for a week if spending the money is a concern for you. The reason the Thick Leather is expensive is because no one goes back to early zones and farms it, whereas something like Augmented Leather is cheap on the CX because of the amount of people doing their dailies.     
 
There is nothing wrong with the drop rate of the leathers. I'm Dominion and can go to Aurora and farm close to 100 thick leathers in an hour. The thing is there is no incentive for me to go back to an earlier zone and do this. No XP rewards and tiny money drops....farm for an hour for 25g, no thanks.
 
What the devs need to do is fix the dailies. Give some quests that the give players a reason to go back to earlier zones. More of the lower tier crafting material will then be available on the CX....lowering the price.
 
 
 
 
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Not to rain on your parade, but if you salvage everything you're crafting, as you level, you won't have a shortage problem with leathers at all (saying this as level 20ish, no idea at higher levels).
Its the lack of Thick Bone, where is 5g for one on the AH, that's tough.  I'm level 21, and I'm rocking a level 12 support system, because I can't make myself a better one because the lack of thick bone.
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8 gold JUST for my dailies...at teir 2....
 
 
Serious bro, you need to fix this. I wasn't even able to craft my own gear as I progressed because of drop rates...HOW could you POSSIBLY think that's okay?
 
 
Go to a lvl 15-20 zone and farm the leather. Take an hour or two and farm enough for a week if spending the money is a concern for you. The reason the Thick Leather is expensive is because no one goes back to early zones and farms it, whereas something like Augmented Leather is cheap on the CX because of the amount of people doing their dailies.     
 
There is nothing wrong with the drop rate of the leathers. I'm Dominion and can go to Aurora and farm close to 100 thick leathers in an hour. The thing is there is no incentive for me to go back to an earlier zone and do this. No XP rewards and tiny money drops....farm for an hour for 25g, no thanks.
 
What the devs need to do is fix the dailies. Give some quests that the give players a reason to go back to earlier zones. More of the lower tier crafting material will then be available on the CX....lowering the price.
 
 
 
 
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Still can't do my dailies... Still can't progress in my tree...Still can't believe I have to *cupcake* about stuff like this...
 	
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@Linebacker:
 
Survivalist profession.
 
To get the Thick leather in great qualities; go to a level 15-20 zone (Auroria at Greenfield Estate for Dominion). Kill the Bulls. Easy leather. 
 
Reinforced leather is best found in Whitevale. Killing any four legged creature should suffice. 
 
Thick bones are in the same location as the Thisck Leather and can be salvaged from the Bulls' dropped carcasses, Rotten Remains. Drop rate is low (5-12 per hour depending on RNG) but the bones are there if you need them. Bone drop rate does need to be doubled, no question. Leathers on the other hand are fine.	
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@Linebacker:
 
Survivalist profession.
 
To get the Thick leather in great qualities; go to a level 15-20 zone (Auroria at Greenfield Estate for Dominion). Kill the Bulls. Easy leather. 
 
Reinforced leather is best found in Whitevale. Killing any four legged creature should suffice. 
 
Thick bones are in the same location as the Thisck Leather and can be salvaged from the Bulls' dropped carcasses, Rotten Remains. Drop rate is low (5-12 per hour depending on RNG) but the bones are there if you need them. Bone drop rate does need to be doubled, no question. Leathers on the other hand are fine.
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			So, did any changes go in yet?  I was leveling from 28-30 in Biodome 3, and I got over a dozen carcasses last night.  Way more than I remember getting anywhere else on my stalker.	
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So, did any changes go in yet?  I was leveling from 28-30 in Biodome 3, and I got over a dozen carcasses last night.  Way more than I remember getting anywhere else on my stalker.
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I'd love to see a screen shot of that. Because I probably only got about 4-5 during questing and the mobs that I killed...I thought that was kind of normal only getting like 4-5 per level ish...if people are getting a dozen, that's news to me.
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That is why I was asking.  I was leveling in a very beast heavy area with a Survivalist.  I am not sure if I was lucky, or if they fixed something, but I got a lot more beasts carcasses than I normally do.
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			sooooo... I sat there, conteplating killing low level bulls for a  while...then I said...*cupcake*it...I have 10 plat, I'm just gonna say eff it...and move on an just spend that money on the tier 4 leather go from there.... welll.... that idea got shit onVikingNoahEven with SAVING ALL MY DAMNED tier 4 leather from plot and kills and carcasses, AND the AH, I would STILL NOT BE ABLE to make myself a full set of level appropriate gear...Homie, your shit is broke...I"m not saying another damned thing.	
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Not to rain on your parade, but if you salvage everything you're crafting, as you level, you won't have a shortage problem with leathers at all (saying this as level 20ish, no idea at higher levels).
 
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Homie, I salvage EVERTHING ... nothings gets vendored because of Rune drops... so, sorry man.
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Salvaging is messed up too. When I craft 5 pieces of leather gear and salvage them all and get ore and gems from it, that really sucks. 
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I agree with everyone else here. Bone drops are ish, if you want them to be carcass drops, that's cool. I don't mind. But they shouldn't be so rare. The creatures were killing aren't jellies, they have more than one bone. And can I make the suggestion that if I'm a maxed Suvivalist, I should have a greater chance to get items from lower level creatures? As a sort of "I've become more skilled in this craft" reasoning. At least then going back and farming lower level stuff wouldn't seem so pointless.
 
While I'm here, can we do something about tree nodes in the world that show up but don't actually drop wood? That ish is quite annoying as well.	
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			My understanding that the wood-less trees have been tapped by another player. I found this out after I accidentally hit one while going after a mob. The player that buzzed it during my fight complained of getting nothing, me on the other hand, got 4 primal woods. 	
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For now three most reliable ways to get components for outfitter are:
1. Salvaging medium armor
2. Thicket in housing plot
3. Buying from crafting vendor
 
Survivalist profession as source of components is neglectable. Upgrade leather drops, replace bones with wood (hey  wood is common, yet it is used by the only one profession) and add resource nodes for leather. Like animals with guaranteed carcass drop that can be killed only by survivalists.	
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It's probably been said before, but the survivalist's ability to gather mats in order to feed outfitter pales in comparison to a miner's ability to gather mats for weaponsmith or armorsmith. In roughly 15-20 minutes time (no bots in the area, HOORAY) my miner was able to gather > 100 galactium ore + assorted crystals. My survivalist in no way can compete with those numbers.
 
My weaponsmith dailies? They're fun and easy to do, and I look forward to doing them. Outfitter dailies? I freaking dread doing them. (I've an expert technologist as well but that's a totally different story).
 
If possible, please make Survivalist able to skin the kills in order to receive crafting items at the same rate as a miner or farmer is able to gather their mats. 	
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so, I found the work around for me.@ Lvl 45... I have aTeir 4 Thicket, I'm part of a Thicket Housing Circle,   I farmed everyone's trees (about 6 neighbors) 3-4 times per day, at ~12 gold per vendor rotation. After a few days, I had enough to buy all the leather I needed on the CX once it became available. I'm maxed on Outfitter now. 
 
...pain in my ass though.	
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			or you could have, in less time, farmed the locations mentioned earlier in the the thread and had all the leather you needed. 	
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NO, just NO...it sucks...it's not lean...it sucks.
 
Look man, if you just increased the drop on the Thicket from 2x Leather, to like 10 or twelve...then life would be perfect. Just like mining.
 
 
Do you understand, that with current leather drop rates, I CANNOT even do my dailies.... let alone progress in my tech tree....come on... seriously?
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Biggest problem with the thick bone situation is you use it all the way from Apprentice through Journeyman.  The sheer amount of thick bone needed to level up support systems along with some pieces of leather is just insane.  I'm not sure the thick bone drop rate is truly the problem, but instead the number of recipes that require it (a number of them require 2) and the amount of said recipes you have to make invovling thick bone in order to learn the next step up.
 
Here's a list of recipes that require thick bones
 
AdvenTek M-2 Shadefit (1 bone)
AdvenTek M-2 Loamtreads (1 bone)
AdvenTek M-2 Dawnrunner (1 bone)
AdvenTek M-2 Nightveil (1 bone)
Galeras Adaptive Vanguard System (2 bones)
Pathfinder's Adaptive Vanguard System (2 bones)
Pathfinder's Basic Vanguard System (1 bone)
Pathfinder's Enhanced Vanguard System (2 bones)
Pathfinder's Smart Vanguard System (1 bone)
Forester's Basic Vanguard System (1 bone)
Forester's Smart Vanguard System (2 bones)
Forester's Adaptive Vanguard System (2 bones)
Forester's Enhanced Vanguard System (2 bones)
Whitevale Adaptive Vanguard System (1 bone)
 
The last five recipes are from Journeyman, yet they still require thick bone.  Likewise, you need 2 bones for a number of recipes and you're required at times to make 4 of a certain recipe to move on, meaning you need 8 bones.  Simply, there's just too much bone needed to craft higher level items and having the same bone cross through two levels is problematic (why should level 26 - 33 require thick bone when it should be requiring tempered bone).	
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