119366-treatise-pvepvp-server-idiosyncrasy

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I know a lot of the new posters don't know me that well, but one of my specialties is to generate constructive feedback on major issues by recommending gameplay changes.  It tends to take a little while since I really don't like to bring these things up unless I completely understand the problem and have some rational solutions.  If I don't have both, I feel like I'm not really being constructive to the situation.  This issue, in particular, was pretty hot last month, is still an issue today, and took me some time to really come to grips with the problem and the situation.  Nonetheless, I wanted to put some possible proposals forward.
 
Last month, I posted this survey to gather some information on a problem that had essentially taken over the front page of General Discussion.  Essentially, the population disparity between PVE and PVP servers is vast and growing wider, and this touched off firestorms of debate as to what should be done to bolster Luminai and Warhound against transfers to Jabbit and Entity, respectively.  At first, this was blamed on the one-way nature of transfers, but newly introduced two-way transfers haven't translated to a rearwards population shift.  The damage may be done already to the PVP servers' reputations for lower populations.  Some even recommended abandoning the idea of PVP and PVE servers entirely, merging both into one large regional server.  While Warhound has weathered the storm somewhat better, partially due to the very outgoing nature of its community and their event planning and partially due to the comparatively higher player population in North America, I think a lot of the debate missed the point.
 
In fact, the most consistent point brought up in the survey I carried out is not that there simply isn't a population, it's that people don't see a population.  I think, if I'm hypothesizing this correctly (and Carbine staff can feel free to correct me with relevant figures and statistics if I am), but we seem to be lacking a lot of open-world interaction if not actual online player concurrency.  This can be a problem especially for the PVP servers, because if there is no one in the open world, there is no world PVP going on.  And, essentially, open world PVP is the only thing that separates the PVE and PVP servers.  Everything else in the queues isn't just the same, it's shared, and no one's getting ganked on the PVE servers.  World PVP on a PVP server is essentially a hindrance without a suitable reward, nothing but raw risk.
 
Therein lies the essential problem, I think.  In the end, without the open world interaction, the PVP and PVE servers are essentially the same, and the population disparity becomes much more pronounced.  Why deal with the lower populations on your PVP server when there is no world PVP going on, you might say?  And this isn't necessarily a new phenomenon, it's pronounced on even games like WoW where only sheer player volume has kept PVP servers populated at times.
 
The issues with the lower population are also very real.  It affects the Auction House, Commodity Exchange, CREDD exchange, and guild recruitment.  It leads to less people you can contact for group quests in the open world, less people to band together to run 20 man events.  And this is what Luminai, in particular, seems to be suffering from.  There are things that player communities can do, of course (fill holes in the exchanges for profit, better communication, more visible server events), but the crux of my proposals here will be addressing three basic principles:
 
-That PVP servers will always have somewhat lower populations, and some things can hopefully be done to make sure that they don't suffer ill effects based on that without sacrificing their independence
 
-That both PVE and PVP servers should exist as much more idiosyncratic entities to draw their player types into them for more than just populations
 
-That open world interaction should be encouraged and rewarded in both server types equally, so that neither provides a larger game benefit
 
I've ordered these suggestions according to how long I think they may take to implement (which is not to be taken to mean how long they would take in practice to implement, as I do not have access to those data).
 
 
 
THE BANDAID
 
I think idiosyncrasy is incredibly important, and nobody will go back to a PVP server (or roll on one in the first place), unless there's some world content going on that makes the PVP server different than a PVE server with extra ganking.  So the first suggestion is a fast, dirty field-dressing to get world content on both servers going again.  So this calls for the introduction of a daily (or weekly) quest.  I know these aren't popular, but as I said, it's just a very quick and possibly temporary solution, so please hear me out
 
Essentially, these quests would differ between the servers.  On the PVP servers, the new quest would be simple enough.  "Kill X opposing players at or near your level, perhaps even in Y", X being whatever number might be deemed appropriate for the time frame given and Y meaning some random zone to keep it feeling fresh.  To balance this, on the PVE servers, the corresponding quest would involve "Kill X elite rare or world bosses", whatever would be most appropriate, or "Collect X [insert an item here]", where the item only drops from primes, rares, 5-man open world bosses, and world bosses.  These would have to be near your present level, though I think the system should count it if you're mentored down (PVP players should weigh in here on whether mentored players are still too powerful in the open world or whether that's acceptable).  The PVE version should probably also dilute rewards from lower-manned mobs if you attack them with higher-manned parties, like using a raid to sweep for primes.
 
The entire point would be simple, get everyone in the open world daily or weekly so we see each other, interact, and (in the case of PVP servers) kill each other.  The rewards could be anything that would get people out there.  Perhaps money, elder gems beyond the cap, boom boxes, or a new container type that contains chances to get mounts, costumes, and rewards that can't be found elsewhere (very popular in the survey).  Whatever it takes to get people in the open world and killing each other or cooperating on world content would be fine.  
 
This could be implemented relatively quickly, I think, depending on the circumstances, and would do something very important, make PVP and PVE servers noticeably different from each other.  If you want to get your daily rewards from PVPing, it would mean you'd have a VERY good reason to be on a PVP server again.  Even if the population does not boom, at the very least, it will give an incentive to see the open world more often, meaning it might certainly feel more populated.  Player population concurrency itself is still useless if everyone's waiting for the queue on their housing plot.
 
Anyway, this might only be a temporary measure, but it could be shoved in very quickly to give the server types some idiosyncrasy.  It could hold people over until more pervasive measures can be taken.
 
 
 
PVE/PVP SERVER CONNECTIVITY
 
One of the major problems PVP servers everywhere face is that their populations will almost always be lower, a reflection of simple gamer tastes and trends.  With that being said, some of the worst ills of being on the PVP server can be mitigated for those that would otherwise prefer to play PVP by linking several elements of both servers together without completely merging them.
 
One would be a way to put together social groups across servers.  Cross-server circles and party invitations would allow players from both server types to essentially run dungeons and BGs with each other.  It might even be prudent to allow people across servers to visit each others' housing plots, thereby giving people ways to run cross-server events without invading each others' world content.
 
More importantly than anything, it is almost imperative (and I'd be surprised if this was already not out of the discussion phase at Carbine) that the AH, CX, and CREDD exchange all be linked across servers (if not even across regions).  At the moment, you have a dearth of commodities and crafted items on the blocks on Luminai and Warhound, with correspondingly higher CREDD prices driving down populations by driving buyers out of the CREDD market.  By linking these together, one of the major stated reasons to roll on another server type even if you don't like it would be gone.
 
An issue with this I see is that it is necessarily more difficult to farm in a PVP open world than a PVE one, thus meaning that it might be easier to collect and sell for a PVE gatherer.  I think it would be worth this notable sacrifice to link the auction houses together across servers and perhaps even across regions.  At least I don't think a lot of potential PVP players would complain.
 
 
 
CONTENT PLUGS/ZONES
 
One of the longer-term solutions to the problem will expand on the daily quest, and will extend into either plugs in open ground, or even entire zones.  If the survey determined one thing, it's that PVP players love world PVP especially on larger scales.  Several liked old WvW areas, persistent hold-the-fortress zones, et al.  One of the issues with designing PVP zones (and the corresponding content that PVP players crave) is that the effort is almost entirely lost on PVE players.  Unfortunately, they make up a larger percentage of the player population, so at present, it may not be entirely feasible to generate PVP areas in the old fashioned way.  However, there are ways around this.
 
Let's take, for example, that a new zone is made.  An area in the middle is designated as a plug, and it has two versions.  Both utilize as many of the same assets as possible, perhaps the exact same structure, same camps, same flags, whatever.  However, on a PVE server, what is inside is a large-scale PVE event, requiring large groups, small groups, and possibly some solo tagalongs (I've enumerated some examples in previous treatises and would be happy to give more detailed examples upon request).  On the PVP server, this becomes a large scale, continuous PVP event.  Maybe a capture the flag event can work both ways, even use the same bases, between both types, and he only difference would be utilization.  This creates a way to create major server content differences while still not requiring a vast amount of new art assets or wasted assets between servers.
 
For at least one more specific example, let's say that the plug is a labyrinthine maze which has a giant world boss in the middle and a gauntlet to be run from either side on a PVE server.  Both sides start at their ends and push to the other, each hoping to get to the middle to share in the kill (or do it so fast the other faction can't kill the boss).  On the PVP server, this same setup can start a PVP match to push an icon back down the enemy's hallway.  In the end of both, a new instance opens up only accessible to those who killed the boss (on the PVE server) or those who won the PVP fight (on the PVP server).  They could use the exact same labyrinth for both.
 
There is no reason this concept could not be expanded to entire zones with capturable objectives, on PVP held on behalf of your faction, on PVE held against waves of PVE enemies.  It would make entirely different zone content between servers, necessitating people actually join a server for the content they want, fulfilling a lot of player wishes, yet still not taxing the development team to create two entirely different zones or, worse, a zone that desiccates for a large majority of the player population.
 
The rewards for these could be substantial; we're talking about focuses of the game at times.  I think daily and weekly quests, world drops, mounts, flair, everything could be made for these and could suck in players for months.  Best of all, it provides places these players can be together.  It's not even something that needs to be for level capped players; there's no reason that entire chunks of the current game world couldn't be turned into plugs and changed this way, so that places like Whitevale, Farside, and Malgrave end up with areas that could vary between high-end, hardcore PVE meat grinder or high-frequency PVP war zone depending on your server.
 
 
PVP/PVE PLAYER EVENTS
 
There is an ongoing discussion the devs are having, to my knowledge, about whether they should allow players to start "events" with items that dispense rewards.  They are justifiably worried about these being exploited.  However, it might help considerably if, on these servers, players were given areas or tools to run events of their server type for server currency, essentially solving that problem.  For instance, an open arena in a town for each faction that arranges one-on-one fights at random between queued players in a pit on a PVP server, or on the PVE server throws random players of several group sizes against rares, primes, and bosses.  Or even if players who participate in world content can buy encounters, whether on PVE server allowing well-rewarded players to essentially kick off a completely idiosyncratic boss in a box (literally, a boss in a box) and on PVP servers might buy entry into a reward box for an eight man tournament for everyone who stays within range of the box (they are automatically pitted against each other until only one is left standing to claim it).
 
That'll make for some interesting housing plots, at least.  Maybe that could work nicely with the cross-server housing plot idea, depending on the expense, to provide some cross-server functionality.
 
 
SERVER REWARDS/ACHIEVEMENTS
 
Best of all, this might encourage people to roll on BOTH server types and engage at high levels on both.  It might be that certain rewards are server-specific, but transferable through the account item selection system.  Imagine if completing world PVP objectives at a high level for a long period unlocked a reward that could be picked up by your characters on the PVE server, signifying your abilities there.  Or titles could be worn, housing plugs could be handed out, et al, for completing world PVP or PVE objectives on these more idiosyncratic server types.  Perhaps even certain rewards could necessitate both.  The possibilities are relatively limitless.
 
If anything, though, it should be that these rewards help players with what they are doing on their own servers.  Perhaps there would be gear that provides PVP or PVE bonuses in non-instanced combat, or a sort of enhancement to current gear that could be bought using whatever rewards or currency is created for this content which gives it that effect.  That way, people who engage in world content of the server type, PVE or PVP, on a regular basis can give themselves a considerable edge in that content.  It could even be that certain areas of the world or certain content is only open to those who have these buffs, achievements, or rewards, creating an elite area where open world PVE can approach DS raid level and open world PVP can feature the best of the best and suitable rewards.  All in an otherwise neglected open world.
 
 
CONCERNS AND TOPICS FOR ONGOING DISCUSSION
 
Some concerns not already brought up remain with these proposals.  The first and foremost being that BGs, dungeons, and other instanced content are all level-regulated.  The open world is not.  The trick would be to make sure that levels are controlled.  There are several ways I can think to do this, for instance tying a maximum "synced" level to every zone to cap the players.  Another would be to only reward people who engage at their own level.  Another might be to have a "mentor stick", an item you can lower your level to while you're in the zone so you don't need other players.  Even another option might be to create max-level versions of all content areas for PVE and PVP content, the way the daily zones are set up.
 
Another concern is that a vast chasm of idiosyncrasy will eventually lead to people feeling it is easier/better/cheaper to play on one server type or the other, which may necessitate balancing.  It is therefore a paramount concern that both server types justly and equally reward those who take part in world content at relative levels (i.e., a great PVP player on a PVP server should be generating rewards about as often as a great PVE player on a PVE server).  The specifics of this might be up for debate, and might necessitate people being judged based on the relative ease or difficulty of killing another player as relative to a high-difficulty 5 man boss.
 
Another is the faction imbalance, which is pronounced on all servers.  In addition to allowing BG queues to perhaps pit same-faction teams against each other, it might be good to address the faction imbalance in the open world.  Should players in an underpopulated faction in a zone get a buff?  Should faction transfers be made available?  This is especially important on the PVP servers, as the PVE server teams tend to cooperate.  If there are 3 Exiles for every Dominion on a PVP server, and we experience a hike in world content, that disparity might become even more pronounced.  Other PVP players may have to weigh in on this.  My only possible solution not yet discussed would be providing additional NPC help to an underpopulated faction in a zone.
 
And, finally, we return to an age-old question; what about the guy who goes 1-50 on a PVE server, then transfers to PVP.  Should his PVE experience be taken into account on the world content stage?  Should he start essentially from square one as far as that currency, reward structure, and others go?  Should server transfers even be allowed after some point and should people be forced to level PVP in a new, more dangerous PVP server?  I can't answer that so easily, as a PVE server player.
 
Please use the space below to discuss specific ideas, the merits of these proposals in general, or any other recommendations you might have.  Remember, the idea here is to make the PVP servers and PVE servers idiosyncratic, worth rolling on rather than simply flagging on a PVE server for people who really want to invest in world PVP.	
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			I like the bandaid you propose.  I see what you're saying.  Variety in dailies is something I thing alot of people would like to see.  Pvp dailies also.   I think having PvP server-specific dailies that drive population to open world is a great idea.	
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I think one of the main thing crippling the PvP servers is the state of PvP. 
 
PvP is sort of in a bad place right now, so we have less people playing that are interested in it, and by concurrence - a smaller population with less Open World PvP fights.
 
Also, not having rewards for PvPing open world doesn't really promote it as a viable alternative to arena / bg's. 	
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The introduction of goals, dailies, achievements and rewards will immediately reveal new flaws in the PvP system.  Before Carbine does anything, it must be prepared to receive a crap ton of feedback immediately and act on it immediately. 
 
They need have someone constantly playing PvP in the Open world to get a feel for the "real player" experience rather than just staring at numbers and charts. Does it feel like a real battle? Or a cake walk? Do you feel like you have a chance? Or are you summarily executed? 
 
They need to have a Zero-Fifity show for the PvP server to answer feedback from the PvP servers, put a face to the responses so to speak. The devs not only need to listen, they need to feel their pain.	
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The introduction of goals, dailies, achievements and rewards will immediately reveal new flaws in the PvP system.  Before Carbine does anything, it must be prepared to receive a crap ton of feedback immediately and act on it immediately. 
 
They need have someone constantly playing PvP in the Open world to get a feel for the "real player" experience rather than just staring at numbers and charts. Does it feel like a real battle? Or a cake walk? Do you feel like you have a chance? Or are you summarily executed? 
 
They need to have a Zero-Fifity show for the PvP server to answer feedback from the PvP servers, put a face to the responses so to speak. The devs not only need to listen, they need to feel their pain.
 
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Zero to Fifty on a PvP server wouldn't really be practical. It's a special circumstance, so people would camp Tony and there would be no leveling. We all know how good Tony would be at world combat (sorry, Tony). 
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			A little while ago I made this post:https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/119250-what-will-be-done-about-the-state-of-pvp/one of the fixes for world pvp that I've included is increasing prestige gain to 100/ 200 prestige, as 8 prestige gives absolutely no reason for you to even seek players. Regarding this post:agreed to all. Though about the band aid, to make it fair, you would have to make sure that tagging and killing a player would only count for 1 player and that tagging and killing an elite would only count for 1 player. So that the daily wouldn't be harder in the less populated server. However taking population into account, when giving people an elite mob, you would have to name one that is abundant and not rare. For example there's around 6 harder versions of Scortchwing's food running around him. That wouldn't be a bad mob to make into a daily. 	
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			If I remember right from before the megaserver merge, cross-server party invites are already possible.  I think.  I haven't had to do one since all the cool Stormtalon folks ended up on the same server as me :)	
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If I remember right from before the megaserver merge, cross-server party invites are already possible.  I think.  I haven't had to do one since all the cool Stormtalon folks ended up on the same server as me :)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11Ee02WLxGk
 
Nooo devs can't play on a PvP server, someone might kill him!!  No duh. It would be hilarious to watch too. Besides, there's no camping "Tony" or whoever until they reach Whitevale. Which, I'll probably have grandkids before that.
 
The point of that show is not leveling. If it were, Tony would be fired. The point of that show is community outreach.
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A little while ago I made this post:
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/119250-what-will-be-done-about-the-state-of-pvp/
 
one of the fixes for world pvp that I've included is increasing prestige gain to 100/ 200 prestige, as 8 prestige gives absolutely no reason for you to even seek players. 
 
Regarding this post:
agreed to all. 
 
 
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Before you can do anything of this sort, you have to be prepared to figure out how to avoid abuse in that system... because just throwing it out there as you propose is so rife with obvious possibilities for abuse that my head is spinning.
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If he comes to Luminai, there's less that 50 people online daily now, so I don't think that there's anyone that could kill him even.
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Some interesting ideas here but I vote no on any more development time going to quests/daily grinds. Blizzard has given plenty of evidence that fun and fair wPvP is difficult to produce, and I have zero faith that a studio with a near-dead PVP population and no current PVP lead is going to do anything good for the game by focusing on broadening the distinction between their two struggling server types. And sadly, the PVP devs in particular have more to worry about as well, since the game saw a massive PVP exodus months ago.
 
Basically, there are bigger fish to fry than making PVP server players feel special.	
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Some interesting ideas here but I vote no on any more development time going to quests/daily grinds. Blizzard has given plenty of evidence that fun and fair wPvP is difficult to produce, and I have zero faith that a studio with a near-dead PVP population and no current PVP lead is going to do anything good for the game by focusing on broadening the distinction between their two struggling server types. And sadly, the PVP devs in particular have more to worry about as well, since the game saw a massive PVP exodus months ago.
 
Basically, there are bigger fish to fry than making PVP server players feel special.
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But the discussion of this thread is not how to improve PVP, it's how to distinguish PVP servers from PVE servers.
 
Part of my point is that refining this distinction between the server types should not be something Carbine works on right now, because their resources are needed making PVE and PVP actually fun and polished in the first place.
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			But the discussion of this thread is not how to improve PVP, it's how to distinguish PVP servers from PVE servers.Part of my point is that refining this distinction between the server types should not be something Carbine works on right now, because their resources are needed making PVE and PVP actually fun and polished in the first place.	
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You're probably never going to see open world  as a viable means of getting gear..
 
That aside, again, my point is that they should improve PVP— but not by implementing daily quests, and particularly not by implementing daily quests intended to differentiate the two server types.
 
They're not poorly conceived ideas, I just think Carbine can do better for their playerbase as a whole than catering to this particular, IMO niche problem.	
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You're probably never going to see open world  as a viable means of getting gear..
 
That aside, again, my point is that they should improve PVP— but not by implementing daily quests, and particularly not by implementing daily quests intended to differentiate the two server types.
 
They're not poorly conceived ideas, I just think Carbine can do better for their playerbase as a whole than catering to this particular, IMO niche problem.
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Some interesting ideas here but I vote no on any more development time going to quests/daily grinds. Blizzard has given plenty of evidence that fun and fair wPvP is difficult to produce, and I have zero faith that a studio with a near-dead PVP population and no current PVP lead is going to do anything good for the game by focusing on broadening the distinction between their two struggling server types. And sadly, the PVP devs in particular have more to worry about as well, since the game saw a massive PVP exodus months ago.
 
Basically, there are bigger fish to fry than making PVP server players feel special.
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You can't just say "oh, no! someone will kill him!" - that's kind of a petty deflect. 
 
Think about it. The whole server would show up and kill him non-stop. It'd be funny at first - who wouldn't want to see Tony die repeatedly? - but realistically, there would be absolutely no progress. He would die repeatedly on the spot after his "I just got killed, you can't kill me in PvP for 20 seconds" shame tag wears off - every. time. He might as well just sit in a stream with the webcam pointed at him and the death screen in the background, because that'd be all it is. At least with Zero to Fifty, he gets to run around unobstructed (albeit, slowly) and see the world around him. That's the point.
 
And that's EXACTLY why they didn't allow him to go on a PvP server.
 
/shrug
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Some good thought in this thread. Ultimately it's a population issue, IMO.  Things are a bit dire on Luminai and Warhound is suffering, so I doubt organic growth is going to be fast enough.  I think that linked markets would ease a lot of pain and should be expedited.  I doubt cross region is possible for legal reasons.
 
Instanced PvP has issues that are keeping the dedicated PvP'er's away.  I assume most of them are attracted to PvP ruleset servers.  If Carbine can get instanced PvP back to a more healthy state the PvP server population should grow again.
 
There still exists a pretty large pain point for PvE folk looking to try out PvP at 50.  Unless you have a group that can carry you, you're pretty much going to be destroyed for the first 20-40 matches because baseline gear can only be bought with prestige.  Since you get Eldan Modules for wins, this just encourages highly geared players to join PBGs to farm under geared players.  Even if some of the old guard returns, new blood is essential.	
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You don't seem to understand how this works.
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Not sure why you have to add a derogatory statement like that. I full understand the scope of this decision from Carbine's point of view.
 
 
Trolls will go to great lengths to troll. Evidence: see the entirety of the internet. 
 
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You don't seem to understand the point of Zero to Fifty.
 
Do you really think the point is for Tony to get to 50? It's not. The show is there to replace that other Show, Nexus Report.
 
EDIT: Yeah I think that's right if you're in an area governed by your faction PvP is optional anyway so there's zero risk to Tony leveling up to Whitevale.
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*shrug* I just thought having a show like Zero to Fifty would be a great way to boost PvP Server Morale.  You seem more concerned about Tony.
 
I sure ain't.	
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You don't seem to understand the point of Zero to Fifty.
 
Do you really think the point is for Tony to get to 50? It's not. The show is there to replace that other Show, Nexus Report.
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Well, it's a bit off topic, but I definitely think I see Rummie's point.  If Tony was going to be on Warhound or Luminai, regardless of population, people would be there to gank him at every turn.  While I appreciate that it might be theraputic, turning Toe Knee into a PVP pinata is probably going to give the impression that there are more people on the server doing world PVP than might be entirely accurate...
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Everyone wants more events and more going on in the open world, there's no reason they can't introduce minimal objective changes between servers using the same world assets, give the people what they want, and save a LOT of time.
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But that's the point.  If you want people to do World PvP you have to get people to do it. Sacrificing some devs play time is probably the cheapest way to get this started. It's not about therapy. It's about bringing people together.
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Dev playing nights would be fine if it were broadcasted for people who aren't subscribed to consider resubbing.
 
And it doesn't have to be Tony. I could be anyone.  The fact is, I'm not worried about the dev dying. I'm worried about the PvP server dying.
 
Having a Wildstar PvP show (regardless of whether or not the Dev is getting pummelled) is a surefire way to generate interest.
 
Let's say that the show features a certain BG. How many people would queue JUST for the chance to be on TV?	
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The principle you're putting forth is something I agree with, but putting any amount of time into daily quests (the bandaid suggested) is something I strongly disagree with, particularly when the motivating pulse is to make choking PVP servers feel different from mediocre-populated PVE servers. I don't want to see both PVE and PVP resources going to an issue that strikes me, in our current state, as superficial.
 
What I'd like to see, rather than how to make PVP servers more of a draw, is for Carbine to make the game itself more of a draw. This whole problem/solution, to me, is like focusing on how to heal the broken left leg and arm of a patient in a potentially deadly coma.
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I feel like if we're trying to create something that would promote open world events on PvP and PvE that would benefit each server while offering a flavor/preference/specialization of play style...
 
1) World bosses that gave reliable incentive to defeat beyond just attunement.
A) We currently have for example Gargantua who would be a great potential as he drops some really good weapons that when I saw them at least seemed to be nice bridges into raids or just general self progression/improvement. However the chance for him to drop these items seems extremely low, but in that same respect this guy doesn't feel like a 20 man world boss. Instead he hits like a weak 5 man boss that honestly while it would take me forever because of his health pool I can solo him. So I think beefing up his drop rate and actually beeifin him up to feel like you need 20 people would be great.
B] If possible make it so that everyone gets an elder gem from these bosses
C) Make world bosses scale accordingly, also known as dynamic combat scaling to some. Where the boss doesn't ahve a true level, but rather has a dynamically scaling resistance and damage to the individual player in question. Similar in fashion to world bosses of GW2 which to me helps in a way bringing traffic and life to lower level zones.
2) Objective based PvP in RVR lakes
A) As the goal of this discussion is to minimalize have exclusive coding and or split of assets we could go forward with implementing PvP objective in a new zoene or even current zones that grant a type of bonus. Limiting access to content is a no no as it can be greatly discouraging with faction imbalance. So something like "extra reputation gain", "more gold per kill", "reduced cost on X".
B]Placing the PvP objective in RVR lakes allows for PvE content to exist along side PvP, while making the two optional choices.
C) On a PvP server the effects could be stronger than that of the PvE server for world objective bonuses.
D)We have a competitive mechanic that hints at this actually being possible with R-12 where the faction that clears faster gets a a stacking buff, BUT I think that the harshest hurdle is trying to work in faction balance along side the bonus while not making it feel like "oh well they're exile...so its not even worth trying". However the fact the mechanic does exist that competitive comparison between the factions can be done makes it possible to explore other venues by which we could gauge competitive gains till "take over"
3) One of the painful aspect I feel of going the PvP route is that you can't get renown. Which is necessary for quite a lot of fluff content. So I'd personally like to see renown given OR all renown purchasable items have a scaled equivalent of Prestige as an optional currency.
 
I'll try to add more later as I have some other ideas, but I have to run off for awhile. Thought these might be interesting to some people...	
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A daily quest, as superficial as it is, could essentially be hotfixed in or, at worst, dropped into the next upcoming patch depending on how much coding would need done. 
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This is where the perspective disconnect comes in. I have no confidence in Carbine's ability to quickly implement anything. CX decor going back to auction should be a simple thing considering it's a reversal of what's already been done. Once you know how to migrate to one place, migrating back should not take a huge amount of time. But it is taking a huge amount of time, weeks so far, for a change that should have never been implemented in the first place.
 
I'm certainly in a pessimistic mode when it concerns this game right now, so there's that. But feel I have every reason to view the company this way. Carbine does not make things quick and easy; or if they do, it's just as likely to be bugged or flawed in some critical way. Six months of "is this bug still here?" and "why did they do that?" have left a bad taste.
 
That's pretty much why I wrote what I wrote. Still respect the game as a whole and the people behind the successes and failure. But yea, I don't have a rosy conception of how Carbine, as an entity, is likely to perform.
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Carbine specifically stated they did intend for the decor to go to CX, and that, after moving it back to the auction, they intend to have it back on the CX in the future.
 
I don't make airy assumptions about how easy or difficult a thing is in this situation. I make arguments based on how easy or difficult other game companies have handled similar situations. Wildstar flops, frequently, on simple-seeming things that other games produce quite polished (hello chat, /who, auction functionality, etc.). So while you're right to point out that switching decor back to the auction house may be more complicated than it seems, my question would be, "Why is it complicated?"
 
This game under-performs in various ways that are evident and so it's not mere conjecture to point out that what you think (assume?) is simple daily quest development could actually, for this company, be quite hard. Changing daily quests isn't going to do a whole lot of good if the content is once again buggy.
 
On some of your other points, I'm not sure if you're operating with the idea that I want a more complex solution; I don't. I don't want any solution to this issue because I see it as kind of a non-issue. The PVP servers here aren't really better or worse than those on WoW or any other MMO I've played, and those  MMOs are doing fine, which tells me, again, Wildstar has more important stuff to use their resources on (regardless of how few people are involved, resources are still needed to implement new ideas).	
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			Last thought because my last post reads snotty, I want to clarify again that I think your ideas for what sounds like more challenging/involved dailies would be cool. I'm labouring the point that I don't think they'd be worth it... but that's just my opinion.	
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			I have been waiting on PvP and PvE dailies since the 2nd week I hit level 50 :/ A friend of mine trolled me and said the venture board in Illium gave them to you....lol months later that thing is still useless end game :P 	
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I enjoyed the post.  It's clear that you've taken a lot of time, and put a lot of effort into creating it.  Unfortunately, this treatise is limited by not only the scope of your survey, but in practical application.
 
Let's state a few points:
 
1.  Your survey takes input from forum browsers, participators, etc.
2.  Your survey takes input from PvP oriented players that ARE STILL here, not the ones that have left to bigger games.
3.  A better survey would be to ask, why aren't PvP focused players, playing Wildstar?
 
Let's talk about why Warhound is in such a bad shape, compared to Entity.  There are ultimately only 2 differences in the servers.
 
1.  Always flagged, vs flagged by choice.
2.  A Small, PvP Priority Community
 
Let's move in depth.   Dude to the low population of the game (and by the problems with our next point), there is virtually no world pvp.  Very rarely does a player on Warhound NA encounter world pvp.  A lot of your post deals with remedying the incentive for World PvP. I agree that there should be more incentives, but I do not think that is what is holding back people's desire to choose Entity over Warhound.
 
I believe that the problem with Warhound is the problem with PvP in Wildstar in general, and that its widely regarded as poorly designed, with almost no developer oversight or competence.  There have been numerous and gamebreaking mistakes (some currently still in live) that have led to unenjoyable play for PvP focused consumers.  If the PvP balance, gearing issues, bugs, and quality of life issues were remedied, then you would see more of a PvP community, and thus more world PvP as a result.
 
Long story short, Warhound is underpopulated because there is only 1 PvP server, and 1 PvE server (in this region), and people that play MMOs want to play working games with people in them.  As a PvP focused only player, the ONLY reason that I have yet to transfer to Entity is because of the community and lack of ability to queue into arenas cross server.  Other than that, more people = better economy = more groups etc.
 
From my perspective, for as long as I've been playing the game, browsing the forums, participating in PvP content, and being moved from PvP server to PvP Megaserver (laugh), these are the things I would say to CRB Management in an effort to add incentive to be on Warhound PvP:
 
Make the necessary urgent changes to PvP:
 
1.  Untie the power of gear from ratings, and move it to cosmetic only.
2.  Add incentives for PvE focused players to PARTICIPATE in PvP, with dailies (and some open world dailies), that give worthwhile rewards for participation, on par with doing dailies etc, as an alternate avenue of time spent.
3.  Fix the glaring and gamebreaking bugs like field probes.
 
Finally:  ADVERTISE
 
The only advertising PvP in this game is getting is STAY AWAY.  If this game were advertised as WoW with telegraphs, and had working PvP systems, it would increase in popularity exponentially.  Perhaps even a free trial to level 14 would spark life into this game.  Everyone's favorite developer Timetravel was in charge of the quests, people will be hooked in once they get a taste!
 
tldr;  Warhound has virtually no population compared to Entity because there is virtually no population of PvP players left in the game.	
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			Surprisingly Eclips, I agree with you. 	
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			The problem with the daily/weekly scheme is that it leads to two different potential problems.  The first is win trading, explicit or implicit, to complete the daily/weekly kill quests or capturable zones.   We already saw this with SW:TOR's world PVP zone of Ilum, early on the trading was explicit (alternating kills in the cave, timing the kills to get full credit, etc.) to facilitate daily/weekly completion as well as maximize rank gain, later it became more implicit with everyone just "fighting" on the bridge.  On the flip side, if there is any sort of continued dominance by the more populated faction, you will make the population disparity worse.Rummie (and others) really hit the nail on the head.  PVP server population is low because the state of PVP in all forms is so bad in this game.	
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			For pvp servers you should be able to loot bodies. Besides that, great work Vic, thanks for the time you put into this!	
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Carbine specifically stated they did intend for the decor to go to CX, and that, after moving it back to the auction, they intend to have it back on the CX in the future.
 
I don't make airy assumptions about how easy or difficult a thing is in this situation. I make arguments based on how easy or difficult other game companies have handled similar situations. Wildstar flops, frequently, on simple-seeming things that other games produce quite polished (hello chat, /who, auction functionality, etc.). So while you're right to point out that switching decor back to the auction house may be more complicated than it seems, my question would be, "Why is it complicated?"
 
This game under-performs in various ways that are evident and so it's not mere conjecture to point out that what you think (assume?) is simple daily quest development could actually, for this company, be quite hard. Changing daily quests isn't going to do a whole lot of good if the content is once again buggy.
 
On some of your other points, I'm not sure if you're operating with the idea that I want a more complex solution; I don't. I don't want any solution to this issue because I see it as kind of a non-issue. The PVP servers here aren't really better or worse than those on WoW or any other MMO I've played, and those  MMOs are doing fine, which tells me, again, Wildstar has more important stuff to use their resources on (regardless of how few people are involved, resources are still needed to implement new ideas).
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Our suggestions to fix pvp are exactly as you're describing here.  There are, in fact, COUNTLESS posts on the PvP forums since Day 1 that offer suggestions to fix pvp in this game. 
 
I personally have NEVER, as a competitive PvP player, been drawn to EVE online. One of my former roommates played it, and he loved it for the social and political aspect. That's what the PvP was about.  It is a heavy risk game, very involved.  Compare this to Wildstar where there is absolutely no risk ever.
 
Look, we've been asking for fixes that make people want to play PvP.  We've all passed over issues that aren't a big deal, to get to those sugary bits.  But here's the thing:   There simply are no sugary bits in PvP.  It's never ending grind, with no rewards, no competition, no balance, and ultimately, no fun.  The core combat, the playstyle, that's there, it's good.  But damn, give me Wildstar's combat system in World of Warcraft's everything else and you'll have a game I play.  This game basically COPIED World of Warcraft except for the combat system, but managed to leave out all of the good parts.
 
Again to reiterate, our suggested changes are fixes to core issues holding people back from enjoying and wanting to invest into the game.  Warplots are something that can be epic if played frequently, but are logistically hard to put together.  Rated Battlegrounds were a hit until people realized how they could exploit them for their own game.  Arenas are great until you realize that unless you play unfairly, IE tanking / exploiting etc, you're climbing an uphill battle.
 
We've been making suggestions since week 1.  I remember in the first month I was speaking directly to QAs and telling them what needed to be changed.  Do you know what I said to them?  EXACTLY the things that are in Skulm's megapost in the PvP forums, 6 months down the road.  All of these issues have been predicted by players, and they have come true exactly as we have spoken them.  I don't even need to ask you to trust me, as the issues are clearly stated on the PvP forums from a simple search.
 
Finally, it's not a social problem with Wildstar.  The social aspect of the game is what kept people playing for as long as they did.  It was things like months worth of RNG grinding for competitive gear that drove even the most social of people away.  Why would anyone grind perfect slots to compete for rank 1 when they're only going to do a rating reset?  Why would anyone want to grind PBGs all day just so they can have gear close to what people were getting for free if they just tanked / boosted their way to victory.
 
Vic, 90% of these people you see in 1800 gear did not earn it.  The majority of people on the leaderboards in 2v2 did not earn it.  NO ONE on the 5v5 leaderboard did anything but WINTRADE for it.  These are issues we outlined to CRB dev, they weren't acted on, and the game, and the people, suffered because of it.
 
The only people to blame here Vic, is CRB Bardic, CRB Muffinman, and anyone else that had their hand in PvP.  Not only did they 1.  design and implement poor systems, they 2.  Did not listen to player feedback and 3.  Did not make changes in a timely manner.
 
Thus, we have 1 server that fosters growth for everyone but PvP players, and 1 server that's just as dead as the servers that were merged pre-megaservers.  I firmly believe, that after all this time, it is the CRB development team and management that is too ignorant, or too incompetent to create a working and market competitive MMO.  I think the concept for Wildstar is great and has potential, but I believe there are too many nerf guns and poor decision makers in CRB to put the concept into reality.	
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Thanks for taking the time to write and compose this Vic. I will try to give my feedback as best as I can understand it. Hope it helps. 
I fully support the idea of creating real, actual gameplay differences between the two servers. Right now the only difference is a 'on/off' pvp switch and that makes wanting to play on the PvP seem pointless from a practical perspective. There should be more.
 
I will express reservations about the introduction of dailies as a first step. At the current state of the PvP servers, they would function more like a mandatory exchange of kills between people who know eachother with the goal of completing the task. This is a great suggestion but it needs to come more as a healing salve afterwards rather than as a bandaid at the start (imho).
 
Instead as a first step, I would suggest creating differences between the two types of servers in the way gear can be acquired, favoring the PvP servers as far as PvP gear is involved.
 
Make the rewards enticing but also please restrict the transfers to be one way.
Here are some general ideas: 
-Offer a package of level 50 PvP gear to all transfers for a limited time.
-Lower the cost of PvP gear on the PvP servers. It should be more easily accessible there.
-Drastically increase the XP benefits of leveling through PvP when playing on a PvP server. For example the housing buff should be at 50% instead of 5.
-Make all the practice BGs queues to be common between levels 6-49.
-Make dyes and mounts to be account based and offer different rewards in the PvP servers. Entice more PvE players to be part of a PvP server.
 
PvP servers need love right now. Hope they get it. :)	
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You've presented some pretty good ideas Vic, and I think I'm on board.
 
As a player who loves all aspects of the game: both PvE and PvP, this would actually entice me to roll on both servers so I could experience both the PvE and PvP server event /weekly/daily, whatever it may be... But with limited play time, I'm not sure if I would be capable to devote enough time to do so. In a perfect world, we'd have both the PvE/PvP world events on PvE and PvP realms (à la Halaa, Wintergrasp or Baradin Hold)... From what I saw, those were still a success.. But I know, that was years ago, and an entire different game. It might not work here.
 
Would it make me quit the game if these features weren't implemented? Most likely not. Thinking about even more content actually makes me pretty excited about playing more. 
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
 
-Offer a package of level 50 PvP gear to all transfers for a limited time.
-Lower the cost of PvP gear on the PvP servers. It should be more easily accessible there.
-Drastically increase the XP benefits of leveling through PvP when playing on a PvP server. For example the housing buff should be at 50% instead of 5.
-Make all the practice BGs queues to be common between levels 6-49.
-Make dyes and mounts to be account based and offer different rewards in the PvP servers. Entice more PvE players to be part of a PvP server.
 
PvP servers need love right now. Hope they get it. :)
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I feel like if we're trying to create something that would promote open world events on PvP and PvE that would benefit each server while offering a flavor/preference/specialization of play style...
 
1) World bosses that gave reliable incentive to defeat beyond just attunement.
2) Objective based PvP in RVR lakes
3) One of the painful aspect I feel of going the PvP route is that you can't get renown. Which is necessary for quite a lot of fluff content. So I'd personally like to see renown given OR all renown purchasable items have a scaled equivalent of Prestige as an optional currency.
 
*snip*
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 So this would mean PvE servers get a PvE gear package, cheaper gear from the Elder Gem Vendor, more XP in adventures and dungeons, etc? 
The idea of idiosincracy is to yes, have different servers, but also equal servers in terms of rewards and gameplay.
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Our suggestions to fix pvp are exactly as you're describing here.  There are, in fact, COUNTLESS posts on the PvP forums since Day 1 that offer suggestions to fix pvp in this game. 
 
I personally have NEVER, as a competitive PvP player, been drawn to EVE online. One of my former roommates played it, and he loved it for the social and political aspect. That's what the PvP was about.  It is a heavy risk game, very involved.  Compare this to Wildstar where there is absolutely no risk ever.
 
Look, we've been asking for fixes that make people want to play PvP.  We've all passed over issues that aren't a big deal, to get to those sugary bits.  But here's the thing:   There simply are no sugary bits in PvP.  It's never ending grind, with no rewards, no competition, no balance, and ultimately, no fun.  The core combat, the playstyle, that's there, it's good.  But damn, give me Wildstar's combat system in World of Warcraft's everything else and you'll have a game I play.  This game basically COPIED World of Warcraft except for the combat system, but managed to leave out all of the good parts.
 
Again to reiterate, our suggested changes are fixes to core issues holding people back from enjoying and wanting to invest into the game.  Warplots are something that can be epic if played frequently, but are logistically hard to put together.  Rated Battlegrounds were a hit until people realized how they could exploit them for their own game.  Arenas are great until you realize that unless you play unfairly, IE tanking / exploiting etc, you're climbing an uphill battle.
 
We've been making suggestions since week 1.  I remember in the first month I was speaking directly to QAs and telling them what needed to be changed.  Do you know what I said to them?  EXACTLY the things that are in Skulm's megapost in the PvP forums, 6 months down the road.  All of these issues have been predicted by players, and they have come true exactly as we have spoken them.  I don't even need to ask you to trust me, as the issues are clearly stated on the PvP forums from a simple search.
 
Finally, it's not a social problem with Wildstar.  The social aspect of the game is what kept people playing for as long as they did.  It was things like months worth of RNG grinding for competitive gear that drove even the most social of people away.  Why would anyone grind perfect slots to compete for rank 1 when they're only going to do a rating reset?  Why would anyone want to grind PBGs all day just so they can have gear close to what people were getting for free if they just tanked / boosted their way to victory.
 
Vic, 90% of these people you see in 1800 gear did not earn it.  The majority of people on the leaderboards in 2v2 did not earn it.  NO ONE on the 5v5 leaderboard did anything but WINTRADE for it.  These are issues we outlined to CRB dev, they weren't acted on, and the game, and the people, suffered because of it.
 
The only people to blame here Vic, is CRB Bardic, CRB Muffinman, and anyone else that had their hand in PvP.  Not only did they 1.  design and implement poor systems, they 2.  Did not listen to player feedback and 3.  Did not make changes in a timely manner.
 
Thus, we have 1 server that fosters growth for everyone but PvP players, and 1 server that's just as dead as the servers that were merged pre-megaservers.  I firmly believe, that after all this time, it is the CRB development team and management that is too ignorant, or too incompetent to create a working and market competitive MMO.  I think the concept for Wildstar is great and has potential, but I believe there are too many nerf guns and poor decision makers in CRB to put the concept into reality.
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Who said it is equal now? It is harder to do PvE content on a PvP server already.
 
Leveling a character while also getting ganked on a PvP server is much harder, yet the rewards are identical to those of the PvE server.
 
It should be made so that playing on a harder, more demanding server also provides you with benefits for doing so. Then it would be equal and balanced.
 
If not, then what is the point for these players?
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