127041-loyalty-rewards-feedback-discussion-title-mount-etc-page-3

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Yeah those rng boxes annoyed me a little... but I still bought them! Must have shinies >.>
 
But yeah, I have no qualms about people letting their sub lapse for months at a time not being entitled, it's the people who are missing out by as little as a day that it really sucks for.
 
I know some people who's subs got cancelled for no reason by carbine, will they still count for the mount? Or will that slight lapse affect their rewards?	
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			Those rng box rewards were practically free considering the low price of the boxes, 1 Box = 1 month sub.	
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Simple as that - if Cabine will not do anything about the situation soon, it will be bad PR - and one enraged player can efficiently convince thousands of potential new players not to join. The longer this situation last the more ppl are raged (and many of them have all the good reasons to be).
 
We may argue where to put the line and that the line once moved, will have to be moved all the time. IMO 365d of active sub on June 15-th 2015 would be best they can have. With that you will have two weeks of possible downtime (ppl are sometimes going on holidays, forgetting to resub for few hours etc.) and if any1 have left the game at any time I am 99,99% sure it was longer than two weeks, besides 2 weeks absence is nothing compared to the void this game was in between drop2 and drop4.
 
My main problem is that ppl that have maintained sub 100% of time are called more loyal, than ppl like myself that dropped it maybe for 8h? Even if I have spent more time in-game, than 99,5% of playerbase. And I don't care about mount (even if I am collector), I do not care about title, I do care about principles. You may say now it was just poor selection of worlds by Cabine, but unless they have time machine, they can not fix that.	
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Simple as that - if Cabine will not do anything about the situation soon, it will be bad PR - and one enraged player can efficiently convince thousands of potential new players not to join. The longer this situation last the more ppl are raged (and many of them have all the good reasons to be).
 
We may argue where to put the line and that the line once moved, will have to be moved all the time. IMO 365d of active sub on June 15-th 2015 would be best they can have. With that you will have two weeks of possible downtime (ppl are sometimes going on holidays, forgetting to resub for few hours etc.) and if any1 have left the game at any time I am 99,99% sure it was longer than two weeks, besides 2 weeks absence is nothing compared to the void this game was in between drop2 and drop4.
 
My main problem is that ppl that have maintained sub 100% of time are called more loyal, than ppl like myself that dropped it maybe for 8h? Even if I have spent more time in-game, than 99,5% of playerbase. And I don't care about mount (even if I am collector), I do not care about title, I do care about principles. You may say now it was just poor selection of worlds by Cabine, but unless they have time machine, they can not fix that.
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No one answered my question earlier, so I'll post it again, since it seems appropriate for you two.
 
If Carbine came out today and said:
 
"Hey guys, we're going to do another Anniversary Giveaway next year when we turn 2! All you need to do is log in during that period and you'll get the rewards! As a special gift to customers who maintain a subscription without lapse between now and then, we'll be giving those folks an additional gift in the forum of an exclusive mount!"
 
Given that "heads up" I pose these questions to you:
 
- Would you stay subscribed the entire time knowing that there's a mount at the end of it for you?
- If no, would you honestly expect to receive it after you returned anyway?
 
This is no different, and the biggest thing is the nature of surprise gifts is that they reward past behavior without knowing.
 
Players would *cupcake* up a storm if they were "forced" to stay subscribed to a game they hate and pay $180 for a mount.
 
Tell me I'm wrong.
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So we agree that inaction is the worst solution to this problem, right?
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hell i wouldnt be so heated over all of it if they would make the mount purchasable for a cost (to say any who had a sub pasted the orignal box time and started at launch or within a week of launch) and just gave it free to those consistent subscribers AND they didnt use this as a way to weight players support and passion for the game.....
 
I dont think anyone here can say they like to see barred content with no ability to unlock it in the future when such a huge and very strict requirement was placed on it in the first place (not being informed of such requirement) and all it took was 1hour of missed time in a ENTIRE YEAR... Would anyone be accepting if say the "free limited gift" was access to a dungeon? how bout a race or class? i highly doubt it.	
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So, what's probably most important here, regardless of the final decisions on who gets what, is making sure this doesn't ever happen again.
It's probably unrealistic to expect an overhaul of everything first thing on a Monday morning, but I imagine that by the time the afternoon has rolled around people in Carbine's office will have had a chance to get together and figure out what they're going to do or not do.
 
See you guys after work,
stay hydrated.	
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stay hydrated.
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is this in reference to something?
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Colloquialism for "Don't panic."
( Also usually good protocol )
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About them not responding, I think its cause they honestly are trying to figure something out.  OR they don't want to respond just yet to make people leave the game.  Carbine isn't known for quick responses on stuff along these lines.  And honestly until we have a post or a definite, it is like this post, nothing can really be said other than what we perceive from their words and hope that they are looking at forums and all that on what we think about those words.  ALthough some response would be nice, a we are looking into this or a IT WILL BE THIS WAY would go long ways to the customer base carbine.  
I find it funny that this is one of the biggest topics of the game going to f2p, and most likely is this way due to everyone has been subscribing and won't see much a change in how they do things.  Other than omnibits and getting some buffs for being "subscribed". 	
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I, for one, don't care about the mount at all. I mean, it's cool and I do love the entire Ithikan aesthetic.
 
I just want the title. I have Mounts. I don't need any more of those. But LIVING LEGEND?!?!  Come on!!!
 
A "legend" because they bought a year subscription and never logged in again? A "legend" because they played the market on Week One of Launch and bought a years worth of CREDD and never paid the game another penny?
 
Neither of those kinds of players deserve a title like LIVING LEGEND and it's asinine to give it to them, while others are given consolation prizes.	
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Eh, it's a fair cop for me. I was gone for a few months because of graduate school. Though I do hope there's some other way to get that mount.
 
I am a bit curious as to how bought and sold CREDD applies to this? I've definitely sold over a year's worth of CREDD, even if I didn't use that CREDD myself.	
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People getting rewards for buying CREDD is a bit of a grey area for me. Technically the loyal people are the ones buying the CREDD at +5 from a standard sub. Not to mention some of those people likely benefited from the early exploits and who knows what. It's just such a questionable way to figure it, it sucks.
 
I do realize they did it b/c they don't want to alienate people using CREDD, but this whole situation really highlights some flaws in what's going on.
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A "legend" because they bought a year subscription and never logged in again? A "legend" because they played the market on Week One of Launch and bought a years worth of CREDD and never paid the game another penny?
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Seriously. I have a friend (who is returning, BTW!) who bought a year's subscription at launch. He helped form the Saddles and was instrumental in our earliest days ... but he left six weeks in and hasn't been back except for a month since then (and that was pre-mega servers.)
 
Now don't get me wrong, I love my friend. He's a great guy and i am totally stoked he's decided to come back.
 
But "Living Legend" for that guy? Come on! That's ludicrous on every level.	
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Seriously. I have a friend (who is returning, BTW!) who bought a year's subscription at launch. He helped form the Saddles and was instrumental in our earliest days ... but he left six weeks in and hasn't been back except for a month since then (and that was pre-mega servers.)
 
Now don't get me wrong, I love my friend. He's a great guy and i am totally stoked he's decided to come back.
 
But "Living Legend" for that guy? Come on! That's ludicrous on every level.
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Eh, it's a fair cop for me. I was gone for a few months because of graduate school. Though I do hope there's some other way to get that mount.
 
I am a bit curious as to how bought and sold CREDD applies to this? I've definitely sold over a year's worth of CREDD, even if I didn't use that CREDD myself.
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Sounds pretty legendary to me. He shall be awaited in Valhalla!
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And we know carbine never shifts. Even if they lose thousands of subscribers, they don't shift.
 
Oh right, they DO shift, when it's already too late and people don't want to hear it anymore.
*facepalm*
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Colloquialism for "Don't panic."
( Also usually good protocol )
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I suppose the PvP reference would be about me. And from what I can tell from your post you were under the impression I was asking to simply receive rewards without earning them. That's certainly not my stance however. I advocated for the option to obtain the items in some way beyond a season time limit. The possible options to come out of that could be ones that are very difficult to accomplish and that would be just fine. I like a challenge. Thing is I'm just a collector trying to maintain part of my endgame by trying to keep things collectable and thus pleading with the devs to take us collectors into account. I know we tend to get the short end of the stick and that exclusivity is generally deemed more important but hey, one can try to defend their interests no? Did the same in the big F2P feedback thread regarding the player appreciation program here.
 
Anyway that was just to give you some context as to my motivations seeing as you referenced me. Though often dismissed, collecting is a valid form of endgame for many people and we tend to be dismissed by developers. Can at least try to let ourselves be heard and hopefully be considered.
 
Regarding the matter at hand however, like I also stated in the post I just linked, even if I wasn't a collector I'd advocate against how the system currently works. It's really not okay to come forward with an appreciation program where you appreciate people with a 100% sub uptime and appreciate people who lapsed a mere day less, if only for the myriad of technical issues that can crop up with trying to maintain a 100% sub. Plus anyone who doesn't make the 100% cut is then appreciated as much as people who are yet to sub and stay subbed to the transition. Rather broad area of situations for just one level of appreciation. And it's not about what the appreciation gifts are in that matter. It's about the principle of how this is being handled. About how inadequate the system is to actually distribute appreciation properly. I am assuming here of course that Carbine actually wants to distribute appreciation properly. I mean if they don't then well the system is fine as it is. If they don't change anything their message would certainly be that they don't care much however, whether intended or not.
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			There is no comparison, you get the Avatus mount for playing the game. The Ikthian Crawler is a reward from a completely broken player appreciation event.	
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The way I see it is that people who buy C.R.E.D.D creates the demand on the market. Without demand there would be virtually no supply. People who supply the demand has to pay 20 $ , which is 5$ more than what Carbine would usually get. But I think the suppliers are more important than the buyers for sure, but you can't have one without the other. 
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Oh yeah, I agree. It's just awkward because the grey area is created when the people who actually paid the money to Carbine don't get squat. They are invisible money machines and 'not loyal'.
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Yup. There are a lot of flaws which you could point out with the way Carbine decided to distribute the rewards, but I'll leave the rest to Carbine. 
I hope they'll eventually take a solid stance, other than what we got from the Livestream, whether they decide to keep it the way it is or not. 
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What did they say on the livestream?
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A "legend" because they bought a year subscription and never logged in again? A "legend" because they played the market on Week One of Launch and bought a years worth of CREDD and never paid the game another penny?
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Hey, there are those of us (like me! D:) who have been around since before launch and never left. It's not just folk who bought a long sub and then left.
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			I'm not sure there's really a way to track that kind of thing, if you're suggesting those people don't get something. A lot easier to just make a blanket statement and eh, if some folk get rewarded even though they weren't logging in... at least Carbine got money from them? xD	
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I'm not sure there's really a way to track that kind of thing, if you're suggesting those people don't get something. A lot easier to just make a blanket statement and eh, if some folk get rewarded even though they weren't logging in... at least Carbine got money from them? xD
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The game has a /played function that players can access with a couple of keystrokes.
 
I promise there is some way on the back-end that can tell how many times a person has logged in, how long since their last log and and even what they were doing when the logged out last.
 
I know this because we were told about those metric-tools way back in the Black Ops days. They can track where you were, what you've done, how long you've played, which quests you skipped and all kinds of other things.
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			True! I'm not sure I want to be making that kind of distinction, though. I mean there were times over the past year where I didn't log in for a week or two at a time for various real life reasons (though I still kept up with the forums) - marriage/honeymoon, work, just getting busy roleplaying in skype, etc. When you start trying to draw a new line of "how long is too long to not log in", then you end up with yet again another situation where people are going to be upset - especially since they paid for that time.	
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This is tearing us apart!! :P
 
I say, why don't they just  give those 3 gifts to everyone that was subbed at the time of announcement (not the sneaky ones that subbed right after) - then an extra Special gift AND title "Legend of Wildstar" to the people that never once lapsed in sub?
 
Yes I lapsed sub due to RL problems like a few people, but I never stopped believing, and never stopped loving the game and telling people about it. So yeah, I'd love to be giving those 3 gifts - but I also acknowledge the people that were able to sub from the start and I think they should gain the gifts and a little extra.	
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Isn't that per toon though? That's not account time.....is it? 
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Well the thing with /played is that it is indeed per character, but a person can only b logged on to one at a time. So you could essentially add all the play time across the players account from each character. This of course includes deleted characters as well(though the player no longer has access to that deleted character, they still do exist on the server with their data still there.) That however runs the problem of what "total time played" is the threshold and given the wide range or play styles...you can have someone who plays 2 hours a week to someone that plays 40...
 
Now thats not to say that that is strictly what they'd go by, but then it'd be a question of well...what metric would they use? They'd obviously have to disclose it as well too
 
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This is tearing us apart!! :P
 
I say, why don't they just  give those 3 gifts to everyone that was subbed at the time of announcement (not the sneaky ones that subbed right after) - then an extra Special gift AND title "Legend of Wildstar" to the people that never once lapsed in sub?
 
Yes I lapsed sub due to RL problems like a few people, but I never stopped believing, and never stopped loving the game and telling people about it. So yeah, I'd love to be giving those 3 gifts - but I also acknowledge the people that were able to sub from the start and I think they should gain the gifts and a little extra.
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I expect there are similar tools in place that measure all KINDS of different metrics. That's how research is done by dev teams ... it's all in the metrics.
 
Metrics are the reason we have multiple daily zones, why we have vet shiphands and why we have contracts. Metrics showed that players (who are the sum total of their toons) don't stay logged in for hours and hours during the weeknights like they did a decade ago. Metrics showed that small, bite-sized content got more play than large, chunky content.
 
It's all there, just waiting for the parsing.   ;)
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This is tearing us apart!! :P
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We can only hope.  Apparently the metrics-measurements haven't really been doing a bang-up job for them so far, or they just weren't paying attention to them. :D *counts all the empty seats in the building to the fresh beat of a cricket-serenade*
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I will be ok with everyone getting the mount that I will receive for staying subbed the whole time if now I get an exclusive keg saddle bag for the mount filled with the tears of all the QQ in this thread.  Then it is fair and I still get something exclusive.
 
Even more interesting is if the people who did cancel their subs had stayed with the game, would I be getting this exclusive mount and a F2P announcement? 
 
Somewhere in an alternate reality this is happening.
 
Although I do agree that lapses of short periods of time are worth looking into, I would bring it up with CS at the right time.  And remember you catch more bees with honey, instead of all this vinegar.
 
But it is good to see some new people or returning people back on the forums.  Where have you been?  It was a lot less active for the past couple of months.	
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The sad state of the population PRIOR to those drops is, if I may be so bold, a direct result of not listening to the same feedback we gave during the Black Ops period.
 
For every "casual" (like myself) who expressed our issues during those days, there were three #GO-HARDCORE-OR-GO-HOME guys (some of which still post here regularly) who told us to shut up and to let Carbine "make the game they want to make!"
 
I laugh to myself every time those same people trot out that same line, over and over again, and never for a second dare to express how truly wrong they were. If they HAD been right, we wouldn't be having this conversation and WildStar would be a brightly shining beacon in the MMO landscape, as opposed to the half-burnt torch of three months ago. And *why oh why* has that torch gotten so much brighter recently?
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If we are to be measured by the amount of money we spent before the Free-to-Play transition even happened, that sets a dangerous precedent for how Carbine is going to handle financial matters in the F2P arena, and the implications of that are dark indeed.
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How do I know if I qualify for the full appreciation reward? I've held up C.R.E.D.D for 9 months and I'm pretty sure a part from 1st free month + normal sub I qualify, but not sure. 
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			@dinwitt: A decision not based on any objective distinction is a common definition of the word arbitrary. The current player appreciation plan's definition of loyal is arbitrary as there are plenty alternatives besides subbing from launch to F2P.	
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@dinwitt: A decision not based on any objective distinction is a common definition of the word arbitrary. The current player appreciation plan's definition of loyal is arbitrary as there are plenty alternatives besides subbing from launch to F2P.
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			So the criteria isn't arbitrary, but them choosing a not arbitrary criteria is arbitrary?	
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			You're referring to the criteria, which is clear. Their reason for setting it where they did is not.	
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			I've already expained it, that you want to discuss my use of the word arbitrary further instead of the actual topic says plenty.	
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			The arbitrariness of who gets what rewards is part of the criticism from many people and open for discussion, especially since many people are using it wrong.	
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			Me and several others have already pointed out why the current player appreciation plan is flawed, you're picking the word arbitrary and applying it to the criteria instead of what defines a loyal player, because I guess you think that is easier to argue against. I came here to leave feedback for Carbine not to have a flamewar over the use of the word arbitrary, let's get back on topic.	
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			On May 29 2014 I signed up for a year sub. During this time, the card I was using I had replaced. Instead of counting me as subbed all that time Carbine changed my start date to January 13, 2015 which now is going to bite me in the rear as not having been subbed all that time from when I actually started. I'm not at all happy about how this is going down for me.	
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On May 29 2014 I signed up for a year sub. During this time, the card I was using I had replaced. Instead of counting me as subbed all that time Carbine changed my start date to January 13, 2015 which now is going to bite me in the rear as not having been subbed all that time from when I actually started. I'm not at all happy about how this is going down for me.
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Me and several others have already pointed out why the current player appreciation plan is flawed, you're picking the word arbitrary and applying it to the criteria instead of what defines a loyal player, because I guess you think that is easier to argue against. I came here to leave feedback for Carbine not to have a flamewar over the use of the word arbitrary, let's get back on topic.
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			Obviously a lot of player's do care what defines a loyal player and would disagree with the rewards having nothing to do with loyalty.	
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Obviously a lot of player's do care what defines a loyal player and would disagree with the rewards having nothing to do with loyalty.
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			The Loyalty Points program is about player loyalty.  The Player Appreciation program is about subscription maintenance.  Just because people are conflating the two doesn't make them correct.	
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For every "casual" (like myself) who expressed our issues during those days, there were three #GO-HARDCORE-OR-GO-HOME guys (some of which still post here regularly) who told us to shut up and to let Carbine "make the game they want to make!"
 
I laugh to myself every time those same people trot out that same line, over and over again, and never for a second dare to express how truly wrong they were. If they HAD been right, we wouldn't be having this conversation and WildStar would be a brightly shining beacon in the MMO landscape, as opposed to the half-burnt torch of three months ago. And *why oh why* has that torch gotten so much brighter recently?
 
Casual content and listening to a player base that is more interested in solo/small-group gaming than those who crowed about #hardcore massive group content.
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			[Redacted: Please disregard, my internet is super laggy today, didn't meant to double-post.  Apologies.] 	
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@Lethality: Well like I've already said several times I think it would be most reasonable to give the players subbed before the F2P announcement a second chance of some sort, but it's up to Carbine where to draw the line. Hopefully there will be an official announcement soon.
 
@dinwitt: Oh I'm not mixing up the two. From the official player appreciation announcement: "For the loyal subscribers who have maintained a subscription from Wildstar's official launch on June 3rd, 2014 until the Free-to-Play launch we will award this exclusive Ikthian Crawler Mount" etc.	
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@dinwitt: Oh I'm not mixing up the two. From the official player appreciation announcement: "For the loyal subscribers who have maintained a subscription from Wildstar's official launch on June 3rd, 2014 until the Free-to-Play launch we will award this exclusive Ikthian Crawler Mount" etc.
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I'll quote myself too then:
 
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It's supposed to be a player appreciation gift.
 
Currently you are considered eligible for the mount if you paid for a year sub and couldn't be arsed to cancel it, regardless of how much you played/enjoyed the game.
 
Then why can't players subbed before the F2P announcement pay for the missing months? Because it's a player appreciation gift- oh, right ^
 
It's bad business, it's bad PR, it's utterly and completely broken.
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I'll quote myself too then:
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@Lethality: Well like I've already said several times I think it would be most reasonable to give the players subbed before the F2P announcement a second chance of some sort, but it's up to Carbine where to draw the line. Hopefully there will be an official announcement soon.
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			@dinwitt: My quote illustrates that no matter how you look at this they made a player appreciation event that for good reason made a lot of players feel unappreciated, in other words it failed. Hopefully they'll address it soon because it failed so hard it ate up about half of the 70 page F2P feedback thread and now has it's own, currently standing at 15 pages.	
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@dinwitt: My quote illustrates that no matter how you look at this they made a player appreciation event that for good reason made a lot of players feel unappreciated, in other words it failed. Hopefully they'll address it soon because it failed so hard it ate up about half of the 70 page F2P feedback thread and now has it's own, currently standing at 15 pages.
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			@MadBlue: I've given my reasons why they should move the line, I'm now waiting for Carbine's response. The loyalty issue is clearly seen differently by different players. And saying that I'm "hanging my entire argument on being outraged by Carbine's "audacity" to not consider me "loyal enough" as a ploy to get something I'm not eligible for, just because I want it"? Think what you want, like I said I've left my feedback and are now waiting for Carbine's response.	
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I'll quote myself too then:
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@MadBlue: That's because not being eligible due to credit card issues or tiny lapses between resubs is even worse. I've still seen plenty of players having the same complaints as me.
 
@Dead Smell: I don't villify those who paid for a year sub and actually played/enjoyed the game. The player appreciation gift is also awarded to those that paid for a year sub, didn't like the game much, but couldn't be arsed to cancel it. Yet it is not awarded to players who played the game for months but didn't join at launch or subbed on/off because reasons.	
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Don't misrepresent the situation here. The majority of the people who are legitimately upset with this are the ones who had a subscription the entire time but are considered ineligible by the caveat that the subscription must be unbroken.
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@MadBlue: I've given my reasons why they should move the line, I'm now waiting for Carbine's response. The loyalty issue is clearly seen differently by different players. And saying that I'm "hanging my entire argument on being outraged by Carbine's "audacity" to not consider me "loyal enough" as a ploy to get something I'm not eligible for, just because I want it"? Think what you want, like I said I've left my feedback and are now waiting for Carbine's response.
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The Loyalty Points program is about player loyalty.  The Player Appreciation program is about subscription maintenance.  Just because people are conflating the two doesn't make them correct.
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			Like I've already said before, a lot of players, myself included, thought the mount was too sought after to be gated behind that requirement. There is nothing wrong with giving players subbed from launch to F2P something cool. Almost all complaints are about the crawler, not just mine. It is an appreciation gift that makes most players feel unappreciated.	
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Like I've already said before, a lot of players, myself included, thought the mount was too sought after to be gated behind that requirement. There is nothing wrong with giving players subbed from launch to F2P something cool. Almost all complaints are about the crawler, not just mine. It is an appreciation gift that makes most players feel unappreciated.
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			What I learned from these 15 pages. If I'm ever at a meeting and someone wants to name something "Loyalty" I am going to stand up and say, "Look man, I know you have the best intentions but you don't wanna do that, I know.....I know."	
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			I know that, how do you even get that out of the... "think the mount is too sought after", is that better? And btw I wouldn't mind if they let players have a second chance at the title too. But if Carbine decides to keep just one of them as exclusive as it currently is it's obvious it's going to be the title.	
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In a way, that's the point, isn't it? You reward the players that stuck with the game all this time the coolest thing you currently can give them to show them that you are thankful they did stick for so long. A unique mount, in this case. It makes sense to me.
 
What it doesn't make particular sense is to be so strict about who qualifies. Any lapse on your account at all? Out of luck, buddy! Clearly you weren't HARDCORE! enough. Or your credit account. Or your life. 
It should have at least a 'grace time' of a couple of days, but not more than a week. That way you include most of the players who ran into problems with their payment systems without fault of their won (hopefully), while also being pretty sure that you are not rewarding those who stopped their subscription because they wanted to stop supporting the game for whatever reason.	
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My question, for all the "I lapsed for a day, a week, an issue etc..." is what do you think those of use who did it all right, never lapsed, never waivered - what should we get?
 
This should be interesting.	
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			@Ildur: That is indeed one way to look at it. Personally I disagree though, the crawler was overkill, more a "screw the 99%, even though they are soon to be the 1% in a new F2P playerbase" than a nod to the players they deemed most loyal.	
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I'm curious as to who is actually responsible for the decisions being made here.
Somewhere, at least one person decided that this was a good idea, then implemented it without getting feedback from the community first.
 
Perhaps we'd make more progress if we focused on getting those announcement pages updated?
 
Who do we message in-game, send support tickets to, or shoot PMs at to get the ball rolling?
I see moderator edits for language in the thread. The community managers seem to be aware of the noise, and they're being very, very quiet.	
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{| class="blockquote"
My question, for all the "I lapsed for a day, a week, an issue etc..." is what do you think those of use who did it all right, never lapsed, never waivered - what should we get?
 
This should be interesting.
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{| class="blockquote"
I know that, how do you even get that out of the... "think the mount is too sought after", is that better? And btw I wouldn't mind if they let players have a second chance at the title too. But if Carbine decides to keep just one of them as exclusive as it currently is it's obvious it's going to be the title.
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{| class="blockquote"
My question, for all the "I lapsed for a day, a week, an issue etc..." is what do you think those of use who did it all right, never lapsed, never waivered - what should we get?
 
This should be interesting.
----
			@henzilla: Yeah of course, because we only want things that are cool, right? You know, even if Carbine made a slightly altered version of the crawler available that I thought was even cooler than the original I would still be less appreciated than someone who bought a year sub, didn't like the game, but couldn't be arsed to cancel. I've played this underrated game for months and I like the developer for frequently communicating with the playerbase. I wouldn't be quite as disappointed if this was a mainstream game run by a big faceless company but it's not.	
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{| class="blockquote"
My question, for all the "I lapsed for a day, a week, an issue etc..." is what do you think those of use who did it all right, never lapsed, never waivered - what should we get?
 
This should be interesting.
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			Sought after can also mean in demand btw.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Sought after can also mean in demand btw.
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{| class="blockquote"
Sought after can also mean in demand btw.
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{| class="blockquote"
On May 29 2014 I signed up for a year sub. During this time, the card I was using I had replaced. Instead of counting me as subbed all that time Carbine changed my start date to January 13, 2015 which now is going to bite me in the rear as not having been subbed all that time from when I actually started. I'm not at all happy about how this is going down for me.
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{| class="blockquote"
The above is exactly what I'm worried about, and I hope Lethality is right. Back in November, as I've posted about a few times in various places recently including this thread, myself and others received an email from NCsoft telling us our subscriptions were "successfully cancelled" - no change in billing information or anything like that, so it was a complete mystery to me as to why it happened. I checked my account history tab and it now says my account time began November 4th when my subscription was cancelled, and became active on November 5th. I'm worried because it doesn't show my subscription date prior to that November glitch, and I'm worried about the fact it now says it became active on November 5th. I do have a history of various tickets I've made dating back far beyond November, as well as posts here on the forums and activity ingame to back up my subscription history, but I'm worried with a line drawn like this that simply won't matter.
 
Glitches like this, which were completely out of the control of the player, should be taken into consideration when decisions like where to draw a line are made. I know the world won't end if things don't work out for me and other players in situations like mine, but it definitely makes me feel sad to think about as well as disappointed about losing out on something at no fault of my own. When I saw the appreciation program announced it made my excitement overshadow my worry about the F2P transition...when I remembered what happened in November, well, it's back to the worry.
 
Here's hoping things work out.
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{| class="blockquote"
Pretty certain the other person's original point still stands.  It couldn't exactly be in demand, if it wasn't even known about until a handful of days ago when it was announced.
 
Be kind of like saying a top-secret and highly-classified prototype that nobody knows anything about is in high demand before it's ever even announced for anybody to even know the idea exists in the first place.
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			It was in demand as soon as it was revealed and it's obvious that is what I meant. Once again, that this is even brought up speaks for itself.	
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{| class="blockquote"
It was in demand as soon as it was revealed and it's obvious that is what I meant. Once again, that this is even brought up speaks for itself.
----
			It was in demand by me and many others as soon as it was revealed along with the insulting requirement. I wouldn't complain if they had a good reason to gate it.	
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{| class="blockquote"
It was in demand by me and many others as soon as it was revealed along with the insulting requirement. I wouldn't complain if they had a good reason to gate it.
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{| class="blockquote"
TexArcana was one of a handful I've seen state that they didn't care about the mount, but instead cared about the title.  Granted you said *almost all* complaints; but if they shift to give some the mount, what about those that want the title.
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			I think the beta costume is cool yet I don't demand that since I didn't play beta. I've said that before too. You've run out of arguments for why players like me shouldn't get the mount so now you resort to this. Like I've said before, I've not come here to have a flamewar With grammar nazis (who are not even correct), I've left my feedback and I rest my case.	
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{| class="blockquote"
In any case, you can be certain something similar will pop up in the game (or cash shop) later, maybe in a different shade of blue or with different appendages.
----
			I've already explained that's because only the crawler was overkill, there are very few complaints about the title. This isn't going anywhere.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Put the title in the loyalty points shop.
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{| class="blockquote"
I think the beta costume is cool yet I don't demand that since I didn't play beta. I've said that before too. You've run out of arguments for why players like me shouldn't get the mount so now you resort to this. Like I've said before, I've not come here to have a flamewar With grammar nazis (who are not even correct), I've left my feedback and I rest my case.
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I quit the game since my friends quit at launch as well, and too bad I won't have that mount, I wish I could but it would probably not there when it transitions and the DJ decor and 4 months signature is what I'm looking forward to.
 
STILL I WANT MORE MOUNTS! :O	
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{| class="blockquote"
I quit the game since my friends quit at launch as well, and too bad I won't have that mount, I wish I could but it would probably not there when it transitions and the DJ decor and 4 months signature is what I'm looking forward to.
 
STILL I WANT MORE MOUNTS! :o
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			It's grammar that you twist into "context" and "motives" because you disagree with me. Other arguments keep spinning around because people disagree on where the line should go and only Carbine have the answer.	
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{| class="blockquote"
It's grammar that you twist into "context" and "motives" because you disagree with me. Other arguments keep spinning around because people disagree on where the line should go and only Carbine have the answer.
----
			Telling me to change "sought after" into "desirable" is a perfect example, because the latter is more accurate even though they can mean the same thing. So you choose the meaning that fits your side of the debate for the first term and claim the more accurate term should have be used instead.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Telling me to change "sought after" into "desirable" is a perfect example, because the latter is more accurate even though they can mean the same thing. So you choose the meaning that fits your side of the debate for the first term and claim the more accurate term should have be used instead.
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			You're making up things or seeing things that aren't there because you disagree with me. Since you obviously think the line should be drawn at the players who missed out on the mount/title due to technical issues, we'll never agree. I think we can agree that Carbine should draw that line soon though. The arguments that don't stem from what words were used and what context/motive can be gotten out of them basically just disagree on where the line should be drawn.	
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{| class="blockquote"
You're making up things or seeing things that aren't there because you disagree with me. Since you obviously think the line should be drawn at the players who missed out on the mount/title due to technical issues, we'll never agree. I think we can agree that Carbine should draw that line soon though. The arguments that don't stem from what words were used and what context/motive can be gotten out of them basically just disagree on where the line should be drawn.
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How about we take the time to appreciate that carbine is doing everything they can to keep the game afloat. I'm sure that when the f2p meetings began that plenty of pressure was applied from on top. They have created all these new systems to please the playerbase on the road to transition. They aren't nitpicking there own wording a hundred different ways and so obviously didn't see the fire it could start. They weren't able to poll the playerbase beforehand cause that would pre-announce their intentions. No matter what happens a large portion of the players will not receive the title or mount. But that large portion of players will receive the rest of the gifts... show some appreciation for what you are getting as they didn't have to give anyone anything at all. Know that for every dollar you have spent in game you are getting loyalty points. That is what you have earned.
Carbine will be doing something about the situation shortly to clarify everything.(i hope) How about you cool your heels and not bite the companies head off when they announce what will be done. If you don't qualify in the end you don't qualify.	
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It's obvious to anyone that you've been looking for hidden meanings ever since "sought after" was brought up.
 
Anyway, this is just one player who thought the player appreciation event was ill thought out (not letting most of the small current playerbase have the best reward, the technical issues for those who did meet the requirement) and broken (guy who paid for a year sub but couldn't be bothered to cancel is eligible regardless if he liked the game, yet players who have played for months and like your game is not eligible because they didn't join at launch and/or was subbed on/off for whatever reason). I think the mount (at least) should be made available somehow to players who have been subbed (or at least had an active sub) before the F2P announcement was made. There have been a lot of complaints (about the mount mostly but I wouldn't mind if players were given a second chance to get the title) and I think they're reasonable as the player appreciation event made many players feel unappreciated.
 
I don't think it can be made any more clear than this.	
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{| class="blockquote"
@henzilla: Yeah of course, because we only want things that are cool, right? You know, even if Carbine made a slightly altered version of the crawler available that I thought was even cooler than the original I would still be less appreciated than someone who bought a year sub, didn't like the game, but couldn't be arsed to cancel. I've played this underrated game for months and I like the developer for frequently communicating with the playerbase. I wouldn't be quite as disappointed if this was a mainstream game run by a big faceless company but it's not.
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{| class="blockquote"
Telling me to change "sought after" into "desirable" is a perfect example, because the latter is more accurate even though they can mean the same thing. So you choose the meaning that fits your side of the debate for the first term and claim the more accurate term should have be used instead.
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{| class="blockquote"
Not at all. The implication of "sought after" is that it was something that people knew about before and were hoping to attain. Like I said, you could say it was "the most desirable" of the rewards, or "the coolest of the rewards", but by implying it was sought after, you're trying to build a justification for the claim of it being unfair to restrict access to it. As if Carbine said "Hey, we're putting this new mount in the game" to stir up interest, and then saying "Psych! Not for you!"
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{| class="blockquote"
Seriously. I have a friend (who is returning, BTW!) who bought a year's subscription at launch. He helped form the Saddles and was instrumental in our earliest days ... but he left six weeks in and hasn't been back except for a month since then (and that was pre-mega servers.)
 
Now don't get me wrong, I love my friend. He's a great guy and i am totally stoked he's decided to come back.
 
But "Living Legend" for that guy? Come on! That's ludicrous on every level.
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Stage 1 Account history
 
 
May 31, 05:58
Normally this would not be a issue and I would not bring this up, but with the move to F2P I have my concerns. While checking my account history it seems to only go back to the point I changed my email and other details, nothing is showing from then back to the three days head start last May?
 
 
 
 
Stage 2
 
 
Jerome (WildStar)
Jun 1, 15:36
Hello there,
Please be informed that out account management website has no feature like that to have change logs upon updating an account. However, every changes from the account will send you a notice on your email address. So far, that is the only way to backtrack the following changes happened to an account.
If this is still not clear to you, please inform us immediately.
Regards,
JeromeNCSOFT Support Team
 
 
 
 
Stage 3
 
That never really answered the question, it just added to the confusion.....does anybody have a record of my full account history ? If you do ? Could you please let me know.
 
I have my doubts that I will ever see the mount, I may even only get credited for the last four months lol, seeing all account change emails are automated! With the change in CS and the fact I've changed my account details three times ( four with the upgrade to deluxe, this is the point my account history starts )
 
edit: to add to the confusion the automated service sometimes sends those automated emails to the wrong email, not the one I'm using for Wildstar at the moment ...seems they are more confused than me	
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			I actually want the title, but I stopped playing for a few months for various reasons...D: I understand giving ppl who never quit something, but I see the other side of things too (being on that other side) LOL. Maybe they'll be in the loyalty shop or something...	
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{| class="blockquote"
Surely you can see a difference in attitude between a player that sets up a recurring subscription and one that intentionally prevents his subscription from recurring?  While I'm on your side about short lapses, not acknowledging that difference makes your narrative come off as disingenuous.
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{| class="blockquote"
Most people are saying that the mount and title should apply for anyone who paid for access every month, whether through CREDD or subscription, even if there was a lapse, since it was a conscious decision to continue with the game month after month. That is, it fulfills the condition of being a "continuous subscriber" because they subscribed every month, and that being considered ineligible because you activated CREDD month by month after the previous month's access expired is excessive nitpicking. This is what most of us are arguing for.
 
There are a few who cancelled their subscription and came back to the game months later claiming that Carbine is slighting them by not considering them "loyal enough" to receive the mount, so they're demanding the mount as compensation.
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This does sum it up quite well (there are more than "a few" complaints but now I'm nitpicking too).
 
Based on the feedback, it seems to me Carbine have 5 places to draw the line:
 
1: They will keep it exactly where it is. Nobody agrees with this and I'm sure they will not do this.
 
2: Having been subbed for at least one day every month. Seems very strict for reasons brought up several times now, but in any case it's miles better than option 1.
 
3: Having been subbed X amount of months / haven't missed more than a couple of weeks / have missed even less than that because of hours between resubs or technical issues. I don't think this is a good option because many will still get angry. Hours between resubs / technical issues is much worse than months / weeks though.
 
4: Having been subbed since before the F2P announcement will make you eligible for subbing for the missing months before F2P actually hits. This would make every current player like the player appreciation program and still keep the mount and title exclusive (come on, when F2P hits the current 99% will be 1%). If they still absolutely want to keep one for the players subbed continuously from launch to F2P only though, the title would be the obvious choice based on the complaints.
 
5: Make the mount and/or title available to everyone for loyalty points (the amount gained from being subbed from launch to F2P). The players actually subbed from launch to F2P will get them/it for free.
 
Hopefully Carbine will pick one soon, the discussion is going in circles because players don't agree on where the line should be drawn (and making strawmen doesn't help either).	
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It's like Rest In Peacemaker all over again.
 
I've got a year sub which was renewed a few weeks ago, before that I had 6 months which I let lapsed for 6 days.... I don't expect to see a mount and honestly not choked up about it since I still get two pretty awesome things and honestly two out of three ain't bad ( :mellow: now I have Meat Loaf in my head.)
 
Do we really need things since we've got some pretty neat things already??? I's pretty generous I thought. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
It's like Rest In Peacemaker all over again.
 
I've got a year sub which was renewed a few weeks ago, before that I had 6 months which I let lapsed for 6 days.... I don't expect to see a mount and honestly not choked up about it since I still get two pretty awesome things and honestly two out of three ain't bad ( :mellow: now I have Meat Loaf in my head.)
 
Do we really need things since we've got some pretty neat things already??? I's pretty generous I thought. 
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In my opinion they've made the line in the wrong place, and it's causing a huge backlash. It's a PR nightmare.
 
All they have to do is set leeway that will clear it up for the people who fall into the grey areas of "days/minutes/hours".
 
And if they don't... well a lot of loyal customers are going to be stung.
 
It's not "crying like babies" if you've done the same as people who bought a yearly sub and paid every month and played extremely regularly. It's just asking for wiggle room for the people who have paid for every month wildstar has been alive, yet missed out on "continuous" subscription by less than a day. Because in terms of sub, they have been continuously paying month by month (and arguably giving more money than someone who paid a 12month sub).
 
I also think launch week/period (of a few days) would be fairer too, I know people who did not sub until 2 days after launch because they were stuck in queues for such a long period of time, or had optimisation issues that carbine had to hotfix. I myself did not sub until early 4th june when there was less people around.
 
I don't care about the mount and title. I like the snoglug and am happy with that by a long mile. If carbine did create wiggle room and that would make me eligible I would be very happy.
 
The thing that bothered me was the wording. You can interpret that how you want, think that it's just me "covering up for wanting the mount", but to me it hurt a little to be considered not as loyal. That's how I took it, and to be fair to the community that's how a lot of very loyal fans of the game took it.
 
PR is a very important thing, and right now I feel carbine are on a rickety bridge across a deep ravine (again :P)	
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{| class="blockquote"
In my opinion they've made the line in the wrong place, and it's causing a huge backlash. It's a PR nightmare.
 
All they have to do is set leeway that will clear it up for the people who fall into the grey areas of "days/minutes/hours".
 
And if they don't... well a lot of loyal customers are going to be stung.
 
It's not "crying like babies" if you've done the same as people who bought a yearly sub and paid every month and played extremely regularly. It's just asking for wiggle room for the people who have paid for every month wildstar has been alive, yet missed out on "continuous" subscription by less than a day. Because in terms of sub, they have been continuously paying month by month (and arguably giving more money than someone who paid a 12month sub).
 
I also think launch week/period (of a few days) would be fairer too, I know people who did not sub until 2 days after launch because they were stuck in queues for such a long period of time, or had optimisation issues that carbine had to hotfix. I myself did not sub until early 4th june when there was less people around.
 
I don't care about the mount and title. I like the snoglug and am happy with that by a long mile. If carbine did create wiggle room and that would make me eligible I would be very happy.
 
The thing that bothered me was the wording. You can interpret that how you want, think that it's just me "covering up for wanting the mount", but to me it hurt a little to be considered not as loyal. That's how I took it, and to be fair to the community that's how a lot of very loyal fans of the game took it.
 
PR is a very important thing, and right now I feel carbine are on a rickety bridge across a deep ravine (again :P)
----
			It's nothing like the Rest in Peacemaker. That was a giveaway item that everyone who bothered to follow the game could again access to. It wasn't some hidden, chosen-after-the-fact goal that no one knew about or had any idea would be coming.	
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I wish you didn't reply with such baiting language in every post you make Styrm.
 
I was loyal from before the start. However I do not receive the mount because I chose to make a new account and play one day after launch. The reason I chose to make a new account was because of a serious reason that I touched upon in a previous post, but has no place here.
 
I'm not bothered about the mount. I can go and say that a million times and people wont believe me, because they have this image of the people who miss out, over such trivial reasons i may add, in their head curling up in a ball crying because they missed out on a game mount by a few hours. I'm bothered about the wording and the meaning behind it. You can call that "crybaby" all you want, but it isn't. It's a difference in interpretation.
 
I'm bothered that my patronage and continued support is not good enough, because of 3 or 4 hours. 
 
You can call me a baby all you want, I really don't care. The fact I have empathy for my peers who I know have played every day but are getting shirked just because of a lapse of a few minutes, hurts me.
 
And on a personal level, I feel that the PR from carbine was thoughtless and they could have done this promotion with the boundaries they have now, a lot better. Right now, the way they have pushed it is opening up that gray area themselves, not people "making silly excuses".	
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Not wanting to show weakness? Please. It's a video game company, not the Third Reich.
 
Reasonable allowances should be made for those people whose credit cards were charged a few hours or days later and caused a minor lapse in the subscription. I don't even have a horse in this race, I'm not a fan of the mount or title and I took a couple month-long breaks to buckle down for exams when needed. But let's not screw people over for billing issues involving Digital River (which is pretty notorious for rejecting payment methods for myriad reasons at the drop of a hat) and hundreds of different banks and credit card companies.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It's nothing like the Rest in Peacemaker. That was a giveaway item that everyone who bothered to follow the game could again access to. It wasn't some hidden, chosen-after-the-fact goal that no one knew about or had any idea would be coming.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well, it's similar in that after the voting was over, there were people who hadn't known about it flooding the forums, giving all kinds of excuses as to why Carbine should give it to them, as well.
 
I don't know how many people reacted the same way about not being eligible for the Pumera, but, I'm sure you remember that thread.
----
			Ideally they would change it to something like "players who were subscribed for at least X months/Y percent of the time from launch to F2P will get the reward" just to cover those blips, where the required time is something like a month less than the total launch > F2P time. That kind of one month leeway would reasonably (actually, pretty generously) cover any payment timing issues.	
----
			
I think that some clarification is in order, plus some leniency for people like Byonna. Like some sort of email stating you are eligible or something. I created my account on June 3rd at launch, and had a recurring 3 month sub since then and never cancelled it but changed my sub to a 6 month and it cancelled/renewed instantly. Am I now not eligible? 
 
I think cases like Byonna definitely deserve the reward. It seems to me like a lot of the people who are eligible for this are people who bought a sub and left it going without even playing when people like Byonna who are "loyal" are going to get screwed.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Oh sure, and please believe that I understand and accept "exclusive rewards" for certain things - and loyalty to the game over the rough patches is certainly reward-worthy.
 
I dunno. I ain't as pissy about it as I was a couple of days ago, and with time, I doubt I'll ever give it a second thought.
 
I *do* agree that the "uninterrupted" part is kind of petty, given how banks and credit cards are not infallible and a gap of a couple of minutes/hours might have occurred through no fault of the player. THAT is more than a bit of garbage, in my not so humble estimation.
----
			
After playing most subscription based MMO's since the start I always regarded the community in Wildstar to be a step up from most. Surprisingly Guild wars also having a pretty solid community that bothers to answer in map chat without sarcasm or stupid comments despite it being buy to play.
 
But after reading a lot of this thread (gave up half way) I can't believe how childish and entitled so many people are. 
 
I was here on day one, I continued playing long after most people had quit, mostly on my own as after making many friends and them all leaving, I couldn't be bothered to make anymore and have the same thing. Through no fault what-so-ever of the games I had to take a short break to look after my poorly cat (sounds stupid to some maybe, not to me :P) so I guess I wasn't subscribed for around 5 or so weeks. That means, I'm not eligible. I'd also love the mount but you know what? Not for a second do I fault Carbine for rewarding those who did show dedication. 
 
They are well within their rights to thank those who supported them from the start. Everyone who has subscribed for a long time / before the deadline still get EXTRA ITEMS as a thank you. Be grateful for that!
 
I can understand if someone let it lapse a day or two and don't get the rewards but the majority complaining seem to have quit for much more than this. A lot seem to be whining that they jumped ship when most people started quitting and somehow think they should be rewarded for that. It's insane. Those who did only lapse a short time (day or two at least, at the very most subscribed in the same month) I'm sure Carbine will sort out somehow, if not?  Oh well, it's just a couple of digital items.
 
Again, Carbine are well within their rights to thank those who stuck it out 100% and their thanking everyone anyway, they just get a tiny little bonus more. Absolutely no problem. 	
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			From my perspective I think my favorite part of the Pumera thing was that carbine answered support tickets by giving people the pet that were just outside of the criteria. That's the kind of leniency that makes your player-base happy. It's also really good PR. I really hope they learn from the feedback of their reward systems and find ways to create more good PR for this game. It deserves to have positive opinions.	
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			People who are currently upset about this because they don't qualify have reason to believe they are entitled to said mount and title.... for examplePerson A buys a 1 year sub upfront to save a few bucks which btw that in itself is a reward in its own, cost them $150 and they decide after 2 months the game is not refined enough and they leave for 5-7 months (they come back around drop 4 surprise surprise) and continue playing or maybe even as late as the f2p announcement.Now person B pays their non discounted $15sub every month for 7 months straight, during those 7 months they bought and sold 5 credd, so they paid up to this point $205 and they were actively playing. Their account lapses for 1 hour - 1 month (they come back well before drop 4) and continue their month to month sub. They also are again active in the community and participate in say the box promotion.Now you tell me in that scenario who is more deserving of the higher tier gifts?The problem is the scale or requirement or line they drew has way to many flaws and allows less supportive players to be rewarded then players who supported this game far more...Next subject is the fact those very player As do not want their exclusive items that they got through more or less luck given to people who qualify just as much as them. I mean let's break this down, so what is carbine truly rewarding? I mean what is the meaning behind rewarding a consistent sub? The money? The idea the player was their the whole time but realistically wasn't even there 20% of the games life? Their support via paying X amount when shit hit the fan? Of any of those they are many other who would qualify more so then you just saving ur dollars and buying a 1 year sub.... or someone leaving until drop 4....moderator edit: content
			
				
	Edited June 2, 2015 by Chillia	
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{| class="blockquote"
[...] Carbine are well within their rights to thank those who stuck it out 100% [...]
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{| class="blockquote"
I really think they should give *all* digital gifts to everyone that bought a box and don't bother with any petty arbitrary calculuses.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
From my perspective I think my favorite part of the Pumera thing was that carbine answered support tickets by giving people the pet that were just outside of the criteria. That's the kind of leniency that makes your player-base happy. It's also really good PR. I really hope they learn from the feedback of their reward systems and find ways to create more good PR for this game. It deserves to have positive opinions.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I've got a year sub which was renewed a few weeks ago, before that I had 6 months which I let lapsed for 6 days.... I don't expect to see a mount and honestly not choked up about it since I still get two pretty awesome things and honestly two out of three ain't bad ( :mellow: now I have Meat Loaf in my head.)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I still think the cleanest method is setting some kind of baseline measured from someone who has been subbed nonstop since launch and letting anyone else earn up to it through credd/signature service.
----
			I still think the cleanest method is setting some kind of baseline measured from someone who has been subbed nonstop since launch and letting anyone else earn up to it through credd/signature service.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So how exactly do i earn back the hours of lapsed time I had?
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Leaving for work soon, but still rather disappointed that nobody from Carbine has even made an attempt to reassure people that things are going to get fixed.
Nearly 20 pages of people that are not happy with things sort of warrants some damage control.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I mean let's break this down, so what is carbine truly rewarding? I mean what is the meaning behind rewarding a consistent sub? The money? The idea the player was their the whole time but realistically wasn't even there 20% of the games life? Their support via paying X amount when shit hit the fan? Of any of those they are many other who would qualify more so then you just saving ur dollars and buying a 1 year sub.... or someone leaving until drop 4....
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The whole point is that things haven't been perfect, and Carbine wants to acknowledge people that stuck it out despite that.
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[...]
 
The whole point is that things haven't been perfect, and Carbine wants to acknowledge people that stuck it out despite that.
 
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You left out the part where RNG got into their billing system and screwed over a chunk of people.
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It's like Rest In Peacemaker all over again.
 
I've got a year sub which was renewed a few weeks ago, before that I had 6 months which I let lapsed for 6 days.... I don't expect to see a mount and honestly not choked up about it since I still get two pretty awesome things and honestly two out of three ain't bad ( :mellow: now I have Meat Loaf in my head.)
 
Do we really need things since we've got some pretty neat things already??? I's pretty generous I thought.
 
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			Some people paid for a year sub and didn't bother to cancel it. If they got bored and came back in say Drop 4, when most of the issues were fixed they'd still be eligible for the top tier player appreciation rewards. The reasoning behind Carbine's current objective measure is flawed, hence why many players are angry and want them to change it.	
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