Oct 2022 1

SECOND HALF
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Later ' "Out of Work" Construction Worker ' Jobs :
There would also be many food related jobs like farming, fishing, harvesting and food processing for the ex-construction workers.
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USE THIS AS AN EXAMPLE OF THE TWISTED MESS OF RETCONNING INFINITE IN BAS
A Player Puzzled About BaS Booker and Elizabeth and Columbia
From where did Elizabeth open the tear to Rapture ? Was it from Columbia? Because it seems like when she found out Burial At Sea Suchong knew about Columbia, she said something like "He must've somehow reopened the tear I made to come here." But at the end of Infinite, all Comstocks were dead. Only one left because he escaped to another universe and not just alternate one. Everything other than that got undone, all the Beths did not exist because all Bookers died before the births of Annas. Samewise Columbia never existed. OK, now some say that the Columbia we visit in EP2 is the one where Comstock left to Rapture, so it was the last Columbia. But why does Elizabeth and Booker appear in it then? Who's Fitzroy fighting ? It is obvious the Columbia we visit is pretty much the same from the main game. The only thing I can think of: Fink was stealing Suchong's ideas and Suchong had no idea about it until Liz arrived at Rapture and tears started to appear. Suchong saw that through "mysterious windows" and made his own Lutece device. After that they both worked together for a little while until Fink decided to stop. Suchong's device stopped working for some reason, and Elizabeth fixed it to go to a Columbia which only exists in the past through tears. Even though it never existed, it still did exist at some point in time. Again did Liz opened the tear from Columbia to Rapture? Saying "He must've somehow reopened the tear I made to come here" seems like she thought he used the same tear and went to Columbia, from where she came from, and that he has the knowledge about it.
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solo game redos infinite redo]]
A Comstock Sayings in REDO ???? 
Comstock on Heretics in Columbia : "Keep the gibbets full, Even when they run out - String up random Untermenschen just to "serve as a warning" ... "Plenty more to kidnap and enslave".
"Tithe Them Til They Bleed"
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Commentary : Not Really A Trilogy
I really don't understand how some people think BioShock Infinite is a great ending to the trilogy. The way i see it, Infinite doesn't have much to do with Rapture in any meaningful way for the Rapture universe, even considering Burial at Sea, which just retconned some things in confusing and unnecessary ways.
I've read some comments that BaS tied the 3 games, like there was a big payoff in the end, but after finishing it, the DLC feels more like a fanfic insertion of Booker and Elizabeth in Rapture. BaS don't even tie with the themes of the main game itself, it feels more like a side adventure of Elizabeth that ends with her death.
Which is not bad per se. Even though Infinite and BaS had many plotholes and IMO some boring characters, i enjoyed the experience for what it was.
But saying that it perfectly closes the trilogy is reaching a lot. Even BioShock 2, which felt very spin-offy, tied themes better with B1 ( Lamb trying to control Rapture in a different way than Ryan's just made her path closer to his, etc ).
I definitely don't want another game set in Rapture, but after BioShock 1,2, the book, and some of the allegedly leaks of Parkside, a story showing the impact of the city in the world is very welcoming IMO. Not saying Rapture should be the center of a new story either, thematically speaking, but it could set things in motion. Also I would love a return to the gameplay of 1 and 2, with some quality of life changes.
This is without considering the potential mess that 2K can do with BioShock 4 here. 
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Burial At Sea : Player Comment :
I just can't stand how it made the entire series reliant on Elizabeth. Now, without her, literally none of the events of the series would have occurred as they did and at least for me that kinda cheapens the events of 1 and 2. Would have liked it more if those games were allowed to happen on their own rather than because a single person was manipulating everything behind the scenes.
To me Burial at Sea is the equivalent of If 2 got a "Sky Burial" DLC in 2020 which revealed that actually Eleanor was responsible for everything that happens after she escaped Rapture and she went on to make a device that allowed her to travel to other realities and it was through this that she contacted the Luteces and used them to set up the events of Infinite which then kicks off the other games.
It is like you absolutely could do this and make it work with the existing lore but it would just feel so unnecessary. Just how I don't think anyone asks "How does Eleanor fit into the events of BioShock Infinite?" I find BaS to be answers to questions most people didn't even ask in the first place.
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novel]] comment
The Novel was OK. It covers from Rapture's start to what happens a while before Jack arrives.
It elaborates on Events and various Characters significantly and has some interesting interactions between them.
One unfortunate thing is it increases/exaggerates the disruptions/mayhem in Rapture before everything was really disturbed by the Kashmir terrorist attack ( and the author increases the "It was All Ryan's Fault" theme too much, which the game lied to you about to push you down their plot following Atlas - who was the actual villain ). Burial at Sea did the same pretending normal Rapture was more like what it turned into later ( There they needed it for the Player's mass slaughter activities ).
The author tried to explain many things to make them less fantasy, but then also compounds other in-game things making them more specifically fantastical - when the game left them more vague.
It was worth reading in my opinion. ( used copies on amazon seem to be around $6 ).
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A Player's Comment - Infinite and NEXT :
It is not that I dislike the game because of the hype from the trailers. I bought the game in 2015, well after the hype died down and I looked at the pre-release stuff years later ( only quite recently ). I replayed the game and noticed that while the game touches on a lot of topics, it does not really give any of them the appropriate amount of time they deserve. The game touches on racism, populism, time travel, the many worlds idea, etc... without giving them the appropriate attention. It feels weirdly empty. Given that Levine wrote and was creative director for that game and with his claims prior to launch, those faults largely seem to stem from his mismanagement and overambition. Given how stressful the development of the first game was for Irrational, and how BioShock 2 turned out excellent without Levine's involvement, it doesn't worry me that he isn't on the development team for this game.
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Player comment
Playing Through the Game was Painful. 
The plasmid-like Vigors feel like a cheap rip off of their predecessors, which I rarely found myself using especially considering you only have a single ish Salts bar. They honestly feel like an afterthought that they had to put in to make sure the game still kinda looked like BioShock. 
As for the weapons, only being able to carry 2 at a time was a really stupid idea and I constantly found myself out of ammo even with Elizabeth throwing me ammo every now and then. I rarely bothered upgrading my weapons because I knew that I'd have to pick up a different type of gun next time I ran out of ammo. 
The focus on long range engagements and the need to actually aim down sights ( something I never did in the previous games ) felt like a really poor and forced attempt to turn the game into a full on shooter, which really isn't what BioShock was necessarily about.
The plasmid/weapon gameplay was what made BioShock unique, but infinite was just filled with boring enemy after enemy engagements where you just sit there and shoot just like any other game. 
The patriots and the handymen were laughable excuse for Big Daddy's and were entirely uninteresting. The fact that the enemies were mostly just Colombia soldiers or Vox soldiers was incredibly boring compared to the variety of Splicers in the previous games. I saw a flame guy and a crow guy every now and then, the rest guy used generic guns. 
That reminds me of how boring the weapon selection was compared to previous games, where's the crossbow? Rivet Gun? Chemical Thrower? And alternate ammo types for different types of enemies !? 
Tonics for are nowhere to be seen, they are replaced with this clothing system that only allows you 4 different bonuses that are locked to specific slots rather than just letting you pick your 4 best ones.
It was many pegs down from the previous games.
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Comment on Infinite :
It wasnt a BIO, which would have caused a society breaking SHOCK for the setting . It was a flying cult compound built AS a dystopia from the start.
At least they could have made the magic potions be magic crystals based on quantum something. And have all Tear powers or whatever drained from the imprisoned Elizabeth - a reason why Booker freeing her would have doomed the whole place. That at least would have been a SHOCK. The makers of the game having to have a DLC to actually link Columbia to Rapture's ADAM to justify the game's Vigors was just plain sad.
One hopes they can get the formula straight the next game.
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Player Comentary : Why Infinite Sucked :
The world building is horrible. Just awful.
There is a reason for things to exist in BioShock's Rapture. The point of Plasmids was that they were made because there is no longer a limitation on full capitalism. Human testing, selling before it was ready, no one cares about the consequences. These are the things to fuel the creation of Plasmids. In Infinite, some jackhole just hears someone talk about them and copies them.
And then he makes them useless.
In BioShock, each Plasmid has a use. Fire used for setting things ablaze like corpses, as burying people wasn't really an option. Bees for honey, you get the gist. Most Plasmids have a non combat application. By the time you're in Rapture the city has all but abandoned hope. Combat is now the only real use for them.
In BioShock Infinite.. What the fuck are you going to use a fucking GRENADE for? How about a swarm of god damn crows? Why do these Plasmids even exist? 
I can tell you why. It is because it is more videogamey. No other reason.
Electrobolt is used to restart electric machines in both games, but in one of them you use it a single time. Total.
Why do people think Infinite is a bad BioShock game? 
BioShock itself is a watered down Immersive Sim. It is not nearly as Immersive Simmy as games like Prey or System Shock. BioShock Infinite takes all of the water from BioShock and 2 and just douses the immersive sim aspect of the game. It is a shooter. Not a BioShock game.
Though I'm happy to hear some intelligent thought out responses disagreeing. I wont argue that it wasn't fun. I played through it a few times. It is fun. I just think it is a bad BioShock game.
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http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Orrin_Oscar_Lutwidge
get text --- need to get actual quotes instead of tard assumptions oin that wiki
"mysterious disappearance of hundreds of thousands of people after World War II" 
Is this number in the materials somewhere, as Rapture was not that large ( 20000 in the novel ), and many of those would NOT be the 'Best and Brightest' (People off Note) as that quote "someone has to scrub the toilets" is quite true.
Many people ( for real ) disappeared DURING the war, and were often not found for a long time, or at all ( Displaced Persons problems went on for years ... ) 
Was a useable cover story that Ryan's people likely employed to cover up the many people who did go to Rapture, particularly ones from Europe.
"Lutwidge somehow returned to the surface with a collection of "souvenirs" and "mementos" of his friends in Rapture"
Including cancerous lesions and limited sanity ? He was spliced up and either effected by the splicing or the addiction process - in which case why would he leave to where there is no ADAM ?? ( Likely the timing was before Mass Use Of ADAM had happened yet in Rapture ) 
He fell in with the losing side, and if 'Atlas fell' then there is the Pheromone Control weirdness ontop of that.
But the SitS plot insists ...
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http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Billy_Parson
Possibly he was 'spliced' with the Children's Behavior Control Tonic "Shut Up And Sit Still"
This Tonic gave Suchong an Idea to Solve Ryan's big problem. ( Would explain why a solution was forthcoming so quickly, the other was his work on the Pheromone mechanism applied to Little Sisters. )
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AD analysis "Sinclair Solutions"
(Ryan) " Augustus Sinclair is what happens when spineless moral relativism is spun into a business ethic. The man has a dirty finger in each and every pie. But I admit, his little firm has its uses. I'm having him use the Sinclair Solutions brand to conduct clinical trials in the field. If there are any incidents with side effects of newer, less stable Plasmids, no one will associate Ryan Industries with the death."
"Moral Relativism" - kind of a strange thing for Ryan to be made to say. :
Doesn't really state WHAT Sinclair does which Ryan does not think proper. Potentially dangerous Human Testing being done - but here Ryan is the one who seeks that, BUT has someone else being paid by him to do it.
"Let the Buyer Beware" ? To what extreme might Sinclair be applying this. ( He demonstrates with his words and actions that there ARE 'Lines he Does Not Cross' ).
In Ryan's Rapture a Free Press is there to point out any 'Cheats'/'Swindles', and behavior that might be considered 'dodgy' ( so The People are made 'Aware' through that mechanism ). If you don't like Sinclair's deals, then don't buy/trade with him ... And someone with 'A Better Product' should be chosen instead ... ( Better Product for the same price ... ) But apparently no denunciations were made against Sinclair with that Free Press in existence, or he WOULD NOT be in business (like Fontaine wouldnt if the gamemakers played their Story honestly).
Seems like this is more of the artificial side-taking the gamewriters tried to force on Players in the game, but with only the usual Vague 'Opinions' from Audio Diaries - without actually giving you enough information/evidence to decide for yourself.
NOTE - THIS IS LARGELY AN AUDIO DIARY SETTING UP FOR A DLC MULTIPLAYER CONTEXT.
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AD]]
Ryan Transcript: "Do you remember what you told me, Bill? A marketplace of ideas ... that was you. If I submit to the debates with Lamb, we defang her. I have done so. And you have been to Pauper's Drop, Bill ? Listen: ( the sound of Grace singing "When you're down and out," in a nightclub ) Between each song, these Oblomovs hand out her manifesto. Her face adorns every wall. Saint Lamb. You made her, McDonagh ... and now you will convince the Council to sponsor her silence."
Recounts Sofia's action more than just simple Psychiatry
Obviously it was not simply Ryan's doing to exile Lamb
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Sinclair - Sorry NOT Evil :
Experiments On People --- OMG !!!!!
"ARMING BOTH SIDES - DERRRRRRRRPPPPPP !!!!"
"Sinclair running it - HE IS SO EVIL, Derrrrrrpp !!!! " ( Knee Jerk of the ignorami )
People being paid or volunteering for 'testing' was nothing new, and it even happens today. The clinical trials being done are with willing subjects. Take a look at the (multiplayer game) 'Apartment' you get to live in, and compare it to the holding cells seen under Fontaine Futuristics. 
Illogical Bizarre (DLC-ism) : Sinclair 'arming' Atlas supporters - WHEN if Atlas won, Sinclair would have been 'for the chop' -- Whether it was done by Atlas to try to appease anyone who actually believed in Atlas's fake Class Revolution, or simply Sinclair eliminated as a rival/danger to Fontaine himself ( who sought total control of Rapture ). 
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http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Editor_of_Rapture_Standard
"I spent twenty-five years pounding pavement to find real news… the stories that matter ... Now look at me, crafting propaganda for a paranoid despot." ― Rapture Standard Editor
an Editor
Any actual evidence he was 'hung' or just wound up in Persephone (or even temporarily jailed) ??? 
25 years as a journalist ( in Britain ?? ), and he went through WW2 - and this guy does NOT understand how propaganda works, or why it is needed ? The Violent Chaos in Rapture is no 'big thing' to him ? The Terrorist attacks 'made no dent in' his thinking ?
Without seeing what he published ( this 'truth' ), it is hard to say whether his arrest (if any ???) is justified. Rapture was in a state of war (emergency at least), and anything/anyone 'Giving Aid and Comfort to the Enemy' can be considered Treason/villainous in that situation.
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Many/mopst people in Rapture saw the measures they went thru (on The Surface) in WW2 as necessary to beat the enemy who was threatening to end ALL their freedoms. But then they KNEW those were War_Measures 'war measures' that should go away AFTER the war was won. 
Since we don't have the actual texts of what this 'Editor' allowed written ( or really wrote himself ), we don't really know whether it was 'reporting', OR something fabricated/editorialized from his own agenda. Maybe he was one that sided with Atlas, and took every opportunity to sabotage Ryan's actions ( Ryan trying to restore Law and Order - to Stop the violent action of Splicers murdering people in the streets and Terrorists blowing things up ). An 'editor' with such an agenda is not exactly preserving people's freedom. Can you actually say that WASN'T the case ? We don't know and we don't have any real narrative to tell us. Automatically assuming he wasn't - that is just as incorrect a supposition ( but what the writers were counting on ). 
Testimony ? Newspapers don't automatically print the Truth - or do you think so ? Many Jounalists print falsehoods KNOWING they are doing it, but lying for their 'cause' is perfectly fine. Some are even delusional enough that they rant against the injustice of the repercussions of their agenda's activity. So how can we invalidate something that might not be valid in the first place ? I suggest that it simply might just be his own propagandizing. If he went thru WW2 ( 25 years a 'journalist' ) then he might ( should ) know that whatever strong measures Ryan imposed were far less than what was done by democracies in WW2. 
Players might do a little research to see what those measures were . ( Do we get enough details about at what point (event context) this is supposed to be ? And for what measures Ryan did or didn't do? ) We can't account for this 'editors' politics, or even his knowing really what was going on, which Ryan was responding to. He also might just have been trying to sell newspapers, and didn't know where the line was when it crosses into 'encouraging the enemy' and 'sowing dispair amonst the Citizens' ( That is a different way of saying 'Giving Aid and Comfort to the Enemy' ). 
Anectdotal : When you don't hear from everyone else in Rapture, you get a skewed presentation don't you ? Plenty of people in Rapture wanted Ryan to eliminate Atlas the Terrorist and his destructive anarchy and just return things to normal. Most people would put up with obvious and reasonable security measures in the interim to do that, and trust Ryan to revert them and restore the Society he had created and reinforced ( by just about everything he said and did previously ). 
Atlas offered nothing to productive people, except the same parasitism that the so many of the people came to Rapture to escape, and Atlas's used destructive methods showing that he didn't have concern for the People of Rapture. 
Implication : 'All Editors Said Same !!!' We are dealing with this one 'editor' here and nothing else. 
'Ryan a Paranoid Despot' - so Atlas was NOT out to take over the city, his 'rebels' were NOTt killing people and interfering with the econony and public safety ? Despot Ryan ? For implementing security measures to stop/prevent the anarchist violence and destruction ? Maybe this same editor had used the same words perhaps to denounce FDR and Churchill ?? 
I can question all this so easily because I've see enough behavior of 'editors' in real life. 
Note- We also hear what he thinks might happen to him, but have no fact whether anything ever did. 
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Rapture Society]]
Leaving The Welfare Parasites :
More than a few immigrants had been sick of the endless taxations with the money being handed to parasites of all kinds, and they wanted to escape that. ( And Bureaucrat middlemen were another kind of Parasite. ) Consider what Atlas talked about in his 'rable-rousing' amongst the - that Fontaine had already cultivated ( with his debilitating ADAM products, and the with his 'Home for the Poor' facilities ). "Telling People 'What They Want To Hear' " ... ( Mentally diminished people ? ) 
Consider : It doesn't take that many people hurling bombs and stabbing/shooting People (or chopping up pipes) to disrupt a Society. 99% of Rapture Citizens didn't or wouldn't listen to the likes of Atlas - but the 1% who did could do irreparable harm. 
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http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Finding_the_Sea_Slug
Tenebaum : "Suchong - Catch !!!"
If you play catch with a Sea Slug, it is going to bite you. 
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Sofia - Imprisoned in a Gulag :
Depriving Sofia Lamb of her Basic human Rights in a Prison ... Persephone wasn't a proper prison ?? She was even given employment and freedoms that people in OUR prisons today would could only wish-for ?? (( Prisons back then also very much different than Today )) For her it was more a place of exile - separate from the society she did not 'to follow the rules of', and WORSE - to utterly destroy it.
Do I really need to explain what is wrong with the writers making so many assumptions ( and with the Fanbois denying the possibility ) : That with ALL the vagueness the game presents that it can be interpretted in a different way/level than the 'naive simpleton obvious' (which the writers likely assumed they could leverage) ? 
What Sophia's actions might/did(?) lead to ( ie- rabble rousing and riots done by people she triggered ) - where was it all to go since she sought to take over Rapture ?? I say nothing about 'automatically'. All is just possibility - with the general lack of details available in the game. Something significant likely did happen for the timeframe when this was all happening - for Ryan to take action ( and he WOULD have the backing of many people in Rapture to do what he did ). AND I am obviously talking about BEFORE the 'war' for Rapture's Survival started, and when the stronger security measures ( War Measures ) were needed. In Ryan's mind, he did not want to use such, but saw no recourse when it was Neccessary. Sufficient proof was sought AND found for having Sofia Lamb locked up. He was taking action officially, instead of letting the population solve it through vigilanteism. We lack details of who-all came to him demanding that he take action. 
Example Scenario : A significant disruption of transportation via a 'peaceful protest' Sofia's pawns organize - repeated - when few transportation alternatives were available in Rapture. THAT would make many ordinary with their lives disrupted very angry at the disrupters. It would lead to actions not conducive to Public Order. Atlas was doing similar things later - except his pawns were not 'peaceful'. 
For being an alleged/implied 'tyrant', Ryan was downright liberal in what he put up with - Again very we get little detail of such things - a huge gap. Ryan understood that his philosophy allowed substantial Free Speech -- UP TO A POINT ( as it always is - until such activities endanger the whole society, when abused by those seeking to destroy society. ) The lack of mention in the game (which is NOT a documentary) and has limited and foreshortened information, does not preclude a whole lot of things from having happened - and with the large events we were told something about, there would be a great deal more in between. "It didnt happen in-game!" is a common defense of the automatic adoption and defense of the 'naive simpleton obvious' story used for a Slaughter-fest Shooter Game. Assuming Rapture being NEAR a real working society - there WOULD be so much not shown (and able to be shown) - It is supposedly A CITY ... and games can only 'worldbuild' so much - though hints are not that costly to have been made.
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The gamewriters, instead of attempting political discourse on a higher level seem to have left that out. We know VERY Little of how Rapture actually operatedMost of the Players likely DO NOT know much at all of how their OWN Society actually works.. The gamewriters motive in BS1 was to make Ryan a cartoon villian, so that Atlas could manipulate Jack (the Player) to empower/implace their mid-game 'Twist'. What might have the game been like if you heard 'early on' some of the propaganda from Atlas seen in BaS, which might have tipped-off Jack ( the Player ) as to what Atlas really was ?? But without any such, you so blythely in your ignorance were 'going along with' what the unknown Sociopath Villain Fontaine told you to do and what to believe.
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Poole]]
Poole Being Close to Sofia Lamb...
Why ? Perhaps she saw having an 'In' with The Press would be useful ? Did he print anything supporting her ? Possibly - It does NOT have to be actual 'Support, to be useful to her - just some mentions - Publicity in a Rapture Newspaper. ( Note - Ryan wouldn't stop that neutral coverage (or even support) until Sofia 'crossed the line' with her Sedition. )
Poole was Ryan's agent anyway, infiltrating her Organization ( "OMG" the players must say - "TYRANNY - Derrp !!" ) We had little detail of what he did beyond manage Dionysus Park ( which BTW, Ryan did NOT destroy in a 'pique of revenge'/whatever ) for her ( Drowning was Poole's Action - NOT Ryan's ). We don't know if that control was 'By Default", as it is all Vague how many of her 'followers' were 'locked up' ( Note- while Wales/Holloway were not )
Poole was Not sent to Persephone Prison- Actually that could have been a great 'journalist scoop' for him ( or more 'Brownie Points' with Ryan )
But perhaps that situation was : For Poole 'a Little Too Close' and too riskier 'Inside The Big House'- being in such close proximity to Sofia Lamb.
And anyway, the writers had 'other plans' for him in the drowning of Dionysus Park in the BS2 plot/story.
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War Measure Context :
So many Players I've talked to (on Forums) have little realization how things change in society when wars start, or when the whole society is threatened by Chaos which disrupts everything. 
They also maybe think that what you see of Rapture in the game is the way it was Before the disasterous mess started with Splicers killing people in the Streets (and Atlas committing acts of mass Terrorism) :
* That Paupers Drop was that way Before ... 
* Apollo Square (implied concentration camp scene) was like that BEFORE ... 
* Crash cause by 'civil war' (instead of years earlier)... 
* Poor People in Rapture (OMG !!!!) not possible except "Ryan did it" ... 
* Grace whining about Hoovervilles ...
* All that obviously kludgey security stuff was THERE BEFORE ('iron fist' of Tyrant Ryan...) 
* Seizing Fontaine Futuristics and KILLING Fontaine (obverse of these well explained elsewhere)... * Secrecy not understoof - COLD WAR ( do they even teach that any more ? ) ... Ryan Abandoned his Philosophy (or never had it in the first place) ... Derrrp!!!
* Etc, etc etc ....
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Something Ryan Already Knew ? :
Defending Joseph McCarthy ?? You might yourself investigate what has come to light recently ( since Soviet secret archives were opened up ) showing that fundamentally what McCarthy was talking about was true ( You can find the facts for yourself, if you dont' trust what I've mentioned ). He turned himself into a clown with the help of left-leaning media, and has been denounced widely by them and those with a similar agenda ever since, but it doesn't change the FACT that what he was talking about was largely reality. 
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Sofia Lamb]]
Sofia Lamb : Crime of Sedition :
"Organizing people politically or speaking out is the total antithesis of violent action " is an incorrect statement. 'Organizing people' can lead directly to those people taking action ( possibly Violent - like Atlas stirring up Riots - even if he didn't take part himself ) or 'speaking out' -- again loudly denouncing the 'Enemy' ( which is sometimes called rabblerousing ) which ALSO can lead to inspiring others to take violent/criminal action ). 
Sofia Lamb 'seized control' of the Persephone Prison, No ? That is overthrowing the existing order. 
Sofia Lamb : "They mistake my study of natural law for the worship of competition. Remember, Eleanor -- one must know the beast before it can be slain." <<< Nah, no violent intent here ?? Oh it is metaphorical, but 'slain' is a synonym for 'kill' or 'destroy' isn't it ?? 
The mild term 'collective' for what Sofia Lamb preached ( in Unity & Metamorphosis ) expresses her detesting of Free Will and Freedom and the existance of the Rights of any individual. THAT is a total antithesis of what Rapture was founded upon, and what the people went there for. There is a point where propagandizing for overthrowing society is beyond 'Free Speech' . We dont' have alot of information, but consider : "One of my own people has been feeding Ryan evidence of my activities, and now I am to be detained. As a religion, they merely monitored us. But as a commune, they would see us crucified." - 'Commune' is a synonym for 'diminished individual freedom'. 
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Sofia Lamb - Political Prisoner :
 "Ryan the Evil Dictator (Derp!)" :
Alleged 'Fact' (implication) that People were "disappeared in the night" ( a number for political reasons ) ... What fact ? Theres no 'fact', just vague insinuations. If we want to be a stickler for details, we can't make such assumptions at the same time complaining about the other opinions and assumptions. 
Sofia Lamb 'erased from the records' ( Very 1984) is based on Ryan saying something that sounds like that in 'round terms' ( Bury_Her_Memory Lamb's_Time_is_Over ) which to me sounds more of a case of 'Out of Sight, Out of Mind', rather than an Orwellian-style Revising every existing referenece to the existance/public memory of the person ( In the Book "1984", the Government controlled ALL of the media. This is not the case in Rapture, and it would be a major COSTLY and Decried effort to do any such thing. ) 
Rather than being given a public trial - Again with no information one way or the other in the game, and the implication is an assumption she was not 'tried'. 
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Grace_Holloway]]
Grace]]
A Players Claim that Grace Holloway is NOT a Dissident ? :
Was NOT the reason for Grace to be "blackballed" ? Some sideways reason that "She sang against Ryan" (like Culpepper with Cohen), and that's why she got in trouble ...
Therapy_with_Grace_1 - Sofia Lamb: "Grace... in Ryan's Rapture, I am the pariah. You and I share unpopular ideas -- but I wonder..."
[get AD text]]
Pauper's_Drop_( Audio_Diary ) Ryan: "been to Pauper's Drop, Bill? Listen: ( the sound of Grace singing "When you're down and out," in a nightclub ) Between each song, these Oblomovs hand out her manifesto."
A Close associate with Lamb... Eleanor, etc... Was Assisting disseminating Sofia Lambs propaganda.
"A dissident, broadly defined, is a person who actively challenges an established doctrine, policy, or institution."
"Oblomovs hand out her manifesto" ( Sofia Lamb's anti-Rapturism manifesto ) is an act of dissent. Dissent is not limited to murdering children of the opposition like Daisy Fitzroy. Generally, a business does not want trouble with the kind of thing that will scare away customers and bring down heat on the establishment ( and if Grace 'just worked there' she ALSO would be concerned with such a threat to her livelihood ). These ( assumed ) 'crowds' all seemed to have dried up when Rapture's economic problems happened ( Grace talks about money and not violence at that point - thus being the actual issue ). That phrase makes the customers sound like NOT being 'poor' people, but instead of people making a living and able to pay ( People for whom 'The Great Chain' seems to have worked for ). 
Unhappy with the Great Chain : a Philosophy which does NOT prohibit others from assisting 'the Down and Out' ( just like Ryan would-not/could-not stop Fontaine or Lamb with their 'charities' - They got into trouble when THEY openly endorse the overthrow of Order in Rapture OR committed Crimes ). In any case, it still seems illogical for a good artist to want to limit themselves to a tiny place like Rapture compared to exposing their art to the Whole World ( unless they are fairly unsavory even to the quite liberal art world existing at that time - OR are too mediocre/untalented). Grace's issue might have been : Racism to have her leave the World, but seemed to see it in Rapture, whether real or imagined. Perhaps the reality that Most Artists simply do NOT become rich, as they might wish, is 'in play' here. 
There is No indication that Grace owned the Limbo Room - game doesn't much say one way or the other. In any case, the owners allowed the political action to take place in the Limbo Room, so Grace must've gone along with it. Being friends with Sofia Lamb though, hints at it being simply more than disinterested complacency. 
-
Not 'Real' Political Dissidents ? - Vague phraseology. So Grace's dissent isn't 'real' ? And it isn't 'political' ?? ( Even though it seems to be dissenting the whole philosophy of society in Rapture? ) 
Perhaps for the verbage should be 'dangerous dissadents' - Those who either resort to violence against the system, or endorses such violence, or actively stir up such actions in others. Grace was being on the fringe of that. James, Harold Parson - we are not told the content of the materials they were distributing ( or of their speechifying ) to gauge what their offense really is. 
--- --- ---
Grace is Just a Bystander ? :
NO. Grace was an aider and abettor to the attrocities that Sofia Lamb carried out. 
Is Grace willfully blind to the fact that there are new Little Sisters in Rapture ( especially after her lamenting Eleanor's fate ) More little children turned into Little Ghouls - or those dont' count because they were not HER Eleanor? 
Can Grace not see Splicers ( or at least humans ) being talked into or forced to 'offer themselves' to an ADAM-harvetsed death to achieve Lamb's 'First Utopian' delusion ?? Eight years of this ? Can she not have heard all of 'Father Wales' rantings about 'The Lamb', etc ...
Has Grace closed her eyes to all the 'unbeliever' corpses on display in Lamb's kingdom ?? - Obviously murdered. Despite Sofia Lamb long ago welcomed ALL to her 'Family' ?? 
If she really wanted to "Save Eleanor from this 'Monster' ", shouldn't Grace have flushed that Control Key down her private toilet ( or whatever other way she could have done to thwart Delta ) ?? 
Willfully ignorant ?? That is no defense. 
This makes you wonder how one-sided/distorted so many other things might be in THIS game when you try to judge the situation based largely on her (or any) Audio_Diaries. 
---
The Fate of Grace Holloway :
What happened to Grace after she tells Subject Delta of the Pneumo package ? There are a few possibilities:
* She killed herself as she had nothing else to live for ( highly unlikely ).
* She was killed by Splicers under Sofia Lamb's order - as Grace questioned Sofia's intentions, something that Sofia Lamb doesn't tolerate ( Which she would consider an act of betrayal - despite what she would say to others ).
* She aids either Brigid Tenenbaum or the Protagonist of BioShock 3 ( most likely ). 
-
Choice : "The result was... she died. Instantly. I nearly soiled myself" 
Hmmm... 
--- --- ---
Grace Holloway is "rendered penniless" ?? 
http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Closing_the_Limbo_Room
That's talking about the Kashmir Incident in 1959 isn't it ? - Sounds like she was Working ( upto that point of time ).
AT that point & previous, she doesn't sound 'blackballed' (by Ryan) to me. ( "blackballed" usually meant pressure to 'block from working' for having sympathies contrary to those the employer(s) would want representing/associated with their business )
---
 "Blackballed" ?? :
Supposedly For handing out seditious pamphlets and singing against Andrew Ryan in the middle of the %27civil_war%27 ?? (( VAGUE ))
Definitely problematic when Atlas's Splicers are murdering people in the Streets, disrupting Rapture's economy, possibly threatening even the Sustinance/Safety of the entire population --- and Grace is helping the other side ?? Supporting the Terrorists ???
War changes things. Most of the people in Rapture came out of WW2 - when such measures were routine, if not supported by the majority.
Freedom (of Speech) is one thing. Freedom to help the enemy Destroy your World is another. 
---
Grace before the Kashmir Incident - Involved With Sofia Lambs "Cause" ? : 
Pauper's_Drop_( Audio_Diary ) Ryan: "been to Pauper's Drop, Bill? Listen:" ( the sound of Grace singing "When you're down and out," in a nightclub ) "Between each song, these Oblomovs hand out her manifesto." ( the manifesto mentioned is Sofia Lamb's )
Ryan is standing there. This sounds like (Vague) it is BEFORE the incident that began the Chaos and so-called %27civil_war%27 . ( After that point it is NOT logical for Ryan to be THERE. )
The Limbo Room nightclub was closed right after the Kashmir attack ( AD: Closing_the_Limbo_Room). So this 'handing out' of ( Lamb ) pamphlets was done before the %27civil_war%27 started ... Is it likely that ( unless Grace was the operator/part owner/whatever ) politically dangerous materials would be handed out in the Limbo Room ? That's a good way to scare off paying customers ( besides the Dionysus Park clientel 'slumming it' in Paupers Drop ).
Is it possible that it ( Limbo Room ) reopened later ? During %27civil_war%27 ?? ( without Grace apparently (?), or would she have make all the noise (Audio Diary) about being destitute? But then wasn't she still being supported by Sofia Lamb - evidence that apartment in Sinclair Deluxe ? ) Reopened later after Lamb's seizing power ( Post-Ryan - place looks pretty intact for 8 years later )? Too Vague all around. (( With fewer details - harder for Players to Spot Inconsistencies ... ))
Sofia Lamb (radio msg to Delta ?) : "For Grace, the paradise of Andrew Ryan was most unkind. She spoke against him in song, and he had her blacklisted. It left her penniless... But in the Family she has found hope, a reason to draw breath." ? 
Grace seemed to have a job in the Limbo Room at the time of the Kashmir Incident ( and then complains about it going out of business during the crisis ). "Blacklisted" for going against the City's Philosophy ( and people/owners do have a right to control propagandizing in their own establishments... ). Yet apparently, Grace STILL again found a job. Perhaps this is more of Lamb's self delusions of her saviorhood of mankind - as shown by her called HER philosophy "a reason to draw breath'". So was the Limbo Room another of Lamb's cultivated 'ventures' - makework setups largely meant to spread Her Philosophy ?? 
--- --- --- ====================================================================
Wales]]
Dissenters Locked Up ? : 
Simon Wales was NOT sent to Persephone with Sofia Lamb. We dont' know WHEN Lamb 'hooked him', or how public he was about his support, or what actions he took ( He apparently was one of Lambs patients earlier ). Remember : we only hear of him by 1968 (BS2), and have little detail of what involving Sofia Lamb he did BEFORE ( and when Ryan was still alive ) other than be involved with architecture for buildings in Rapture (implying a very early date of being IN Rapture for its Construction ).
--- --- ---
Persephone]]
Consider : Are we ever really told how many people actually WERE even sent to Persephone for political reasons ( lots of criminals there if you listen to the Audio Diaries in the place ). Sinclair made use of Sofia Lamb to try to make prisoners more docile - Sounds like violent criminals/deranged Splicers - Were they the majority? . Did we ever get a headcount on how many 'Rapture Family members ever were sent there ?? ( Perhaps many were NOT 'exiled' permanently either. ) Or how many for political reasons had committed Crimes for which they could be 'Jailed for' - as common criminals ? 
The in-game details are All very vague, and so much is assumed from just a handful of people making Audio Diaries.
--- --- ---
Artists Being Oppressed in the World :
'All Artists' ? (( And again why should most Artists come to Rapture, when the World they are leaving is not a problem for them ? )) In the West, artistic freedom was significant and even had the collusion of 'art critics' who had to always sell something 'new' no matter how bad it was. Artists coming to Rapture from elsewhere might be escaping other circumstances - like from Eastern Europe. BUT then they could have just as well gotten to 'the West' as to go to Rapture. 
Rapture was supposed to give them the Freedom of expression, but not Mandate that they would make a living at it, or force others to appreciate it ( neither - just like on The Surface ). So, a limited venue for 'customers' doesn't make sense for those with talent and who were ambitious. As for all the other reasons, those can go for anyone - not just Artists. Even McCarthyism could be escaped by moving somewhere else ( ie- If one was a serious Communist by going to Russia ... ). BTW, it has been historically proven that McCarthy was actually right - The facts are in the Russian Archives opened since the Soviet Union fell. The intent of the historic Communists can hardly be denied, and it was a serious threat to Freedom in the world. 
--- --- ---
AD analysis]] bs2
http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Ryan_vs_Lamb:_Reality
get txt
"Reality is Consensus" (consensus defines reality)
To those who employ lies as truth ....
-
Sounds like a crowd packed with Lamb supporters, versus being of normal people in Rapture, who might/should realize what gobbledeegook Lamb is peddling ( Unfortunately for the impression of 'support', most Ryan Philosophy supporters are busy at work ). Lamb's make-work employees no doubt were 'free' (ordered) to attend this 'public' meeting. 
--- --- ---
AD analysis
http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Cheap_Son_of_a_Bitch
Would Ryan be funding money for a program (Gathering, Protecting) there wasn't a need for yet ?? ( If the BaS story is followed where Suchong dies early, versus BS2 where he lasts alot longer before meeting 'the drill' ). 
If the %27civil_war%27 is NOT 'under way' yet, then there isn't the crisis requiring more ADAM ( and add a much longer delay to setup that whole technical infrastructure to even have 'Protector' suits to reuse ). Presumably, this was also AFTER the Alphas failed, and the later models ( which look to be reapplied Undersea Maintenance 'Cyborgs' which might have existed for years already ).
They ( BaS writers ) tried to stuff way too many events into the short time period.
--- --- ---
AD Analysis]]
http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Protector_Smell
Protector Smell
get text] and clarify whats below
A general Bond : LS -> BD ...
Suchong seems to be talking about the Protectors the Gil Alexander created ( using pheromones as part of the 'bonding' mechanism ) - NOT the system Suchong supposedly came up with - the Little Sister bribing BDs with ADAM system ... (the RetCon) leading immediately to his demise.
So Suchong is working with that kind of BD unit (not an Alpha). BUT this is in the Big Daddy Factory at Point Prometheus, and is supposed to be WELL AFTER the time ( soon after the Kashmir Incident ) he was portrayed as dead in Burial at Sea ?? 
The truth is that you sometimes have to be more specific when saying something is 'Canon' :
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RetCon
You have to mention the contraditions the later materials contained to what was Canon previously.
--- --- ---
MultiPlayer]]
Idea - this whole "Consumer Rewards Program" ( apart from it doing it with anyone on Atlas's Side - that's just plain insane), now being done for some artificial 'sides' in the shoot-em-up game. "Rewards" is just part of the motivation for the Splicers. Early it might be "Testing" of new Combat Plasmids and Tonics+Weapons, but that would not last long as the things being Tested were deployed. 
With 'Nerfed' weapons and Plasmid - this could be 'Training' of Splicers for Ryan to use against Fontaine. ( No logic to wanting MORE crazy people ... This would be using existing Splicers )
Citizens who HAVE been subjected to the Pheromone Control ( as I've mentioned - being a mood altering, versus robotic control ) are to go out to fight Atlas's remaining Splicers. It took a while to have Fontaine run out of his ADAM stash, and for the Splicers on the other side to seek out Ryan's machines to feed their addiction - before they then are also neutralized and can be calmed down.
In the competitive consumer environment of Rapture, and the mindset of its citizens, what better way to motivate but through Contest Competition and Salesmanship ??? 
Contest where you DIE -- Sorry it is not quite 'competition' the "RAPTURE WAY" - with typical attrition rates how does anyone get to Level 36 (or even 13) ??????
-
"Consumer Rewards Program" Rankings to fit in BioShock Timeline ? 
Discrepencies and conflict if found to be noted. It was kinda secondary to the main game, and who knows what tier of game developer were used, and told to "Throw something together, and have some reconizable events/personages mentioned - so to tie it into the BioShock stories". Possible mention of BaS stuff that the writers extruded ontop of MP materials ( and all the conflicts/complications that stuff would create.) Rated a Lesser Canon - MMORPG will take what is useful, try to correct contradictions, and discard what is too absurd,
Individuals may have advanced at different and irregular rates. So the real conflicts would be within each individuals sequence having the events be out of order.
--- --- ---
BaSx DLC Slop]]
Vents in the "Department Store" ? 
Not much of a 'system'. For it to work you need 'renewed' air coming IN thru one set of pipes and exhaust ( stale air ) being taken away on another set of pipes.
SO those vent-pipes need to go somewhere that is the source of air ?? ( Oh that's right, the place was suppopsedly 'sunk', so all those original air lines were severed, AND the place should have run out of Oxygen by now --- and all Splicers ( and Atlas ) then being dead within ( the Sewage system being cutoff is a separate problem, as is Power, Heat, Water, etc etc etc ... (( It is so fucking easy to be 'Awesomeness Dude !!!' when you can write anything you want which is divorced from reality - in a place whose story was 'supposed to be' about a possible reality ))
That "Sunk" sounds good to make Ryan sound 'Da Ebil', but doesn't really work ( make sense ) as was slipshod portrayed.
--- --- ---
BaSx DLC Slop]]
It is Stange how that tall thin building you see ( so artistic... ) in the out-in-sea views of Fontaine Department Store building is THEN turned into this sprawling inside floor layout ( Infinite BS type magical again ? ). The only building like this is seen in BS1 - the Welcome Center Bathysphere station building ( with an approach view of the building shown extending 100+ feet below the level you walk thru inside ).
Artists Licence rarely works for real buildings where the Laws of Physics are in Effect - I M Pei
^^^ get real initials
--- --- --- 
Talk:Sinclair_Solutions_Consumer_Rewards_Program_Messages
NOTE - Multiplayer Creations are warped for the context.
Pheromone Control Mentioned :
Rank 36 : "Well, that old rumor mill is at it again, friend ! This time, our competitors have made up a wild story about additives in our Plasmids which make you vulnerable to brainwashing !"
The final entries of the sequence makes it seem like the 'Final Reward' was a trip to the cells in Fontaine Futuristics to become a Big Daddy, or be just another demented/insane Splicer test subject ? One of Ryans Splicer minions? 
How about instead you ( the tester ) is gone because you are now sitting at home ( or going to work ), all nice and calm, under the Pheromone 'Mind Control', making you simply stop fighting/being violent/slobbering after more ADAM ( Pheromones are simple brain chemicals and would only allow very simple 'control' -- NOT something like "Hunt Down Atlas and bring me his head" ). Eliminating the destructive fighting, and Nullifying Altas's Splicer Army would basically all but win the %27civil_war%27 for Ryan and leave just Atlas all alone, with a dragnet of Ryan's security men closing in on him. ( Which makes Ryan's "suicide" so utterly ridiculous ).
--- --- ---
http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Tiger_by_the_Tail
Jaguars are ambush killers and usually wont run far.
Anyway, the Location picture has the locker with a 'pinup' of 'Sally' ? 
So is THAT the fate of BaS "Sally" that Elizabeth was all so sure of - Getting twisted up in the timelines and winding up in the 19th century version of porn ? So Elizabeth caused that - flinging Tears about as she does ?
--- --- ---
Spitfire_( Audio_Diary ) 
Ryan Amusements could have had one of these game machines in its 'Arcade'
Pinball machines ( flippers introduced 1947 ... what did you do before flippers? ) but popular before and during the depression. Other types of games ( I think Disneyland had a arcade on Mainstreet which had variety of old mchines going back even further ) They could be used as a type of 'skill based' gambling machines ( payout from the shop owner ).
Whack-a-Parasite game....
A few Costumed Characters wandering about - Squirmy the Sea Slug from the TV cartoon show...
A Fun-house ... good ones could keep kids busy for hours.
--- --- ---
http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Prying_Eyes
AD
"Said they were Ryan security," :
They No Need No Stinkin' Badges ?? "Treasure of Sierra Madre" movie line 
Funny thing would be : They were just ordinary crooks, and the Air-tite staff didn't even bother to find out who they really were.
For Rapture people who are supposed to understand how the Philosophy of the place is supposed to work, the game writers sure make those common folk sound like a bunch of useless morons ( which the writers did chronically ).
Double Ditto for an experienced company who is supposed to sell 'safe and secure' as their product. 
--- --- ---
http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Peeping_Tom
 "Peeping Tom" Tonic : 
No real living cells are sensitive to X-rays unless fantasy magic is involved. 
Any assumed X-ray source is a similar issue.
A plausible solution : Hypersensitivity to vibrations and sounds ( including through walls ), batlike triangulation and directioning. An actual Biologically-existing mechanism. User seen Glowey Effects are just warped damaging stimulation which the brain is 'not used to' ( like seeing flashing lights during a stroke ).
That is within biological possibilities and with existing natural analogy
--- --- ---
http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Exhaust_Venting
Problem with 'exhaust venting is : At whatever Rapture's depth ( 600 feet and 20 atmospheres of water pressure at my estimation ), you have to compress anything (gases) you want to 'vent' to the ocean upto that water pressure.
( Similar issues with a Big Daddy's tools being powered by 'fuel', whose exhaust has to be disposed of in similar circumstances - not impossible just more complicated )
--- --- ---
http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Cash_Bag find pix
Cash Bag - Why they invented Gold Coins :
Bag full of Silver Coins = Heavy. Tiny little straps and/or puny fasteners of said straps to bag = Coins scattered all over the floor. Animation of Elizabeth strugglng to drag it after Booker would have been amusing. Didn't some of the vending machine items cost 1600 silver eagles? That's ALOT of coins to put into a machine one by one. More amusing is Booker makes his selection and the vending machine jams. Animation of Booker beating up a Vending Machine would have been amusing. Him rocking it and it falling over and crushing him - priceless.
--- --- ---
Illogic]]
Crank_Gun need thesaurus word for Stupidity :
Booker isn't a Big Daddy - He has to hold this thing with just one hand ( has to work that crank with the other ) ?? Seriously that huge chunk of metal ??? I won;t even go into what the recoil can do.
Was there a Nostrum (equiv to Tonic) called "Titans Wrist" to be able to operate this thing?? 
The same diffiiculty would be double for using the Skyhooks, which would yank/dislocate every joint in your arms if you did anythink like what they show... And those leaps and landings are more what an Ape would be capable of (or a Splicer), rather than Booker the 40 year old derelict.
--- --- ---
AD ? Behind_the_Scenes
The Thinker]]
This computer system probably not quite 'running' the place as implied.
BS2 the Rapture still exists and is holding together pretty good even after the maintenance on these 'Thinker' run automatic stuff pretty much had stopped for YEARS.
Everything actually runs ITSELF for the most part ( Do you really need to run a wire 3 miles to control a simple thermostat, Or work a door which a two dollar electric eye could activate? ). Rather you use the 'Thinker' to monitor and optimize various operations ( Which saves on costs and so pays for the computer systems existance ). It guides certain things, not run them.
--- --- ---
alternates]] 
Q : Liked Infinite ? 
A : Only like it because of the Boys Of Silence
(Actually a 4-year old would have no problem with that 'getting past them'. )
If only one of THOSE had been your Sidekick ...( Muffled talk from Elizabeth inside that bizarre suit )
--- --- ---
Mini-Game]]
Paris Scene ( Lizzie Goes To Paris ) - and then Appears the Character from GTA3 with a Chainsaw 
Instant mini-game (and Rockstar Owns all the rights ...)
Shredded flesh and bone effects ... Lotsa blood ...
Bread Boy runs but can't get away - Corpses floating in the Seine ...
--- --- ---
BaS Illogic]] Chalkboard]]
Picture of Blackboard]]
Suchong/staff really needed a whole blackboard for something so obvious ? I guess Fink hadn't stolen the idea for Postit Notes yet through a Tear. 
Except that requiring 10 X the hard-to-get ADAM made it FAR more expensive - THAT should have been the issue on the blackboard - Could the profit of a 'gentle use' Luxury good do better than a mass-produced consumer item injectable ? ( Consider : By Chaos Time Rapture, such Injectable vs Drinkable issues for Combat Plasmids were Moot ... )
ChalkBoard should have had : A better way to inject it - The Easy-Stab, Vigor Injectomatic... 
-
The Drinkable Vigor Equations :
Kinda the thing you figure out BEFORE you start mass production of a product. LOGIC : Idea would have been REJECTED EARLY in any development cycle (10 X ADAM obvious a big negative factor).
If the Plasmid IDEA originally came from Rapture, where it WAS 'Injectible', then how did the drinkables even happen to be chosen in BaS's Rapture ? ( The 'Drinkable' option would have been investigated and then TOSSED OUT years before. ) Suchong would have seen it instantly.
The Math is so obvious, that even a dead Sea Slug would have seen which way the product packaging should have gone ( 10 X !! Idiocy ) .... And so Fink was supposedly stupider than THAT ???? 
Making a whole lot of the ADAM-Wasting product to fit in BaS ( Gamemakers regurgitating Infinite BS-isms ) 
--- --- ---
Player Comment]]
An Interesting Player Comment : "My Criticisms of Infinite" :
This pretty much sums up my criticisms of Infinite : From a purely mechanical standpoint, Infinite's a huge downgrade from the first 2.
The 2 weapon system is limiting because you don't have full control of the weapon sandbox, which removes a lot of the strategy from combat. You'll end up upgrading your favorite two, then get stuck with no ammo during a drawn out combat encounter ( of which there are several, especially late game; I'm sure everyone remembers the Lady Comstock fight ) and have to use some other gun that's not upgraded at all. This problem is exacerbated with the numerous weapons added mid-late game that dilute the weapon pool with reskins that serve the same general purpose, but make you find different ammo for them. These extra guns are usually inferior to whatever you had previously because you haven't upgraded them, and are just with a minor damage tweak or quirk. Is anyone really gonna argue that a weapon sandbox diluted with reskinned weapons that negate your investments into the original guns is good game design ? Why not just have a more concentrated sandbox with unique weapons that serve unique purposes ? Instead of that watered-down one we got.
I'm not pretending the first 2 games are some masterfully complex strategy games, but Infinite took what they did well and threw it out. There's no weighing the odds of combat encounters ( partly because the game's so linear, I don't even remember any optional combat encounters ), considering how many health packs or EVE you have; Elizabeth will just toss you whatever you need if you run low. No saving auto-hacks for a tough safe, or sneaking around to hack some turrets for the upper hand, no setting traps when you know enemies are on the way. Every system from the original games has been dumbed down or straight up removed.
I like the presentation of vigors, but they are not integrated into Columbia, and its story like Plasmids were in Rapture; hardly any enemies use them, and I don't remember any civilians using them either. I know they're supposed to be a recent invention for Colombia, but this makes it seem even more like they just copy/pasted Plasmids/vigors because franchise.
You have no inventory for salts/health, you have to rely on whatever you find mid-fight or whatever Elizabeth conveniently tosses you right when you're running low, which ruins any sense of strategy.
 
Now I'm not gonna pretend the first 2 games are some masterfully complex strategy games, but Infinite took what they did well and threw it out. There's no weighing the odds of combat encounters ( partly because the game's so linear, I don't even remember any optional combat/boss encounters, ie. Big Daddies ), considering how many health packs or EVE you have; Elizabeth will just toss you whatever you need if you run low. No saving auto-hacks for a tough safe, or sneaking around to hack some turrets for the upper hand, no setting traps when you know enemies are on the way. Every system from the original games has been dumbed down or straight up removed.
Now onto characterization. Firstly Elizabeth. Now I know everyone loves her, because she's a literal Disney princess, with all the tried and true attributes that make Players instantly gravitate towards her. She's cute, naive, outgoing, and cheery. This is not the personality of a lifelong shut-in whose only connection to the outside world was some books, records, and what little she could peek at through her tears.
Now for SPOILER Booker/Comstock; He's mentally retarded. Your first combat encounter is triggered because Booker is a moron who doesn't think to cover his distinctive hand mark when he sees posters warning that the antichrist will have one just like it. Comstock had full control over everything Elizabeth consumed for her whole life, yet he didn't take the opportunity to brainwash her to his beliefs ? Or prepare her for the role he intended ? He apparently didn't think to feed her literature full of racist ideology or irrational Founding Father worship. Did he just leave Elizabeth alone with a library and expect her to accept her position as the lamb ? And no, these are not character flaws or "arrogance." Booker/Comstock are depicted as capable and intelligent; these mistakes are completely irrational given their goals/motivations.
In Infinite, you don't have any meaningful Choices; you pick what neck/brooche thing Elizabeth wears, Who you throw the ball at ( though they both lead to the same result ), whether that one guy dies now or later, and that's... it. No little sisters to save/harvest, no NPCs to spare/kill ( who won't just end up dead anyway ), nothing. Imagine if, in BioShock 1, when you initially save/harvest a Little Sister, and Atlas 'pipes in' and makes you harvest her regardless of which you chose. Or a Splicer runs up and takes her before your Choice plays out. Or when you finish the game you get the same ending no matter how many Sisters you harvested. That's Infinite. Maybe it fits with "muh themes," constants and variables and all that shit, but it is still frustrating that you don't have any Choices that affect anything.
The first game doesn't do Choice as well as it could've ( something I think BioShock 2 greatly improved on ), it is binary good/evil, but at least the Choice was there. If you wanted the evil ending, make the evil choices ( and live with the screams of the helpless Little Sisters ). One of my major critiques of BioShock 1 is the ADAM balancing between saving/harvesting. It should've been a lot more difficult to play as 'a goody two shoes'. But this doesn't give Infinite a pass to just abandon all Player agency. Infinite barely gives you the illusion of Choice; you'll get the exact same ending no matter what "Choices" you made.
I am not even mentioning all the issues I have with the story/worldbuilding. It is a convoluted, messy plot, not OK if you can only understand it after several playthroughs or a 40 minute YT video explaining it. Some of the rules Infinite sets up are shaky at best. People apparently start nosebleeding and losing their minds if their alternate self is killed; but with infinite possibilities and infinite realities, EVERYONE should be going nuts because at least one version of themself has got to be dead. Stakes are kinda out the window too, if we need to do something or fuck something up we'll just hop to a reality where we've already resolved it ! Conveniently it is a reality where our alternate selves are absent from too.
I actually liked the opening sequence, entering Colombia was almost as cool as descending into Rapture. Columbia looks amazing, but lacks the sense of logistical/functional realism that Rapture had. I also liked the "psuedo-religious/obsessive-patriotism" thing they were going for; but as with much of the game, I don't think the politics were developed enough to be on par with Rapture.
--- --- ---
Player Comment]]
Another Thumbs Down
Yeah they were aiming for something different here not sure they hit the mark though ... I’m still angry to this day about the trailers and gameplay they showed of this game and how drastically different the end product was.
They made the sky hook gameplay and traversal out to be incredible, but it turned into the furthest thing. We thought we would be traversing Columbia from one floating section of the city to the next, but it just ended up being loops around mini battle arenas.
We were originally shown in a trailer this bar scene where you use Telekinesis, pick up a shotgun and fire off rounds at these rowdy people in the bar. It looked so awesome, like there would be more involvement and character interaction with the people of Columbia, besides the main set pieces. Everyone instead was just a blank slate with military or revolutionary themed outfits. That was the best they could do in the game presentation.
BioShock 1 and 2 actually gave us some character development besides the main bunch. It really helped draw me into the story and care for what the people were going through like the Botanist in Arcadia, or Sander Cohen, or Grace Holloway in Paupers Drop ... Elizabeth was another cliche disney princess trapped in a castle, Fink was one of the most boring antagonists of the entire series, and Daisy Fitzroy’s uprising just felt like it could have been so much more ( although the Voxophones displayed at least some of the emotion she was feeling ).
Back to false promises, the Song Bird idea was genius, but its utilization and execution is beyond disappointing, it was barely in the game and no battles.
The voids or portals were also very lackluster. The only thing infinite about BioShock is the story, not the gameplay, lol. They could have done so much with Elizabeth's seemingly random powers.
I haven't even gotten into what I think of the gameplay, and it is not good. Weapons don't have the crunch they did in the previous games, and less variety. There's no sense of progression and growth with the weapons due to the lack of proper upgrades. Combat scenarios and maps dont differentiate themselves much. In my mind they are all sort of jumbled into one shooter battle arena with skyrails, and it gets thoroughly repetitive.
I appreciate the variety of Vigors, but many of them just don't feel right to me. And obviously some are broken as in previous games. There was no explanation for why they work.
As others have said, the story is also too convoluted for its own good, if we relate back to the series we all love ;( 
If you go into infinite without any expectations from the previous games, or if you haven't played a BioShock game before, Infinite is average at best.
--- --- --- 
Tear Element Being "Dumbed Down" :
Original (element of the Infinite game) were Tears which Elizabeth could create to affect the situation ( With a Player's Choice being involved ). They were to be far more customized to their setting ( and having significant 'Wow' value ). Presumably there would have been alot of them in the game. This was dumbed-down ( the other way being too much customizing work - especially if partially interactive ) to a limited set of static/repeated 'Choice' objects which might assist Booker in the Arena Battle Combat situations.
VERIFY WHERE THESE WERE IN INFINITE - NOT IN BAS were they ?
http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Samurai
Samurai : Why ? A bit odd. Why not "A Winged Hussar" ?????
Alternates :
* Steamroller ...
* Trained Pterodactyl ( Velociraptor would be too passe )
* Sherman Tank (2 MG and a 75mm Cannon)
* Robot ( generic with no copyright problems )
* A Sinkhole leading to Hell ( an environmental trap )
* 4 dogs sitting around a table playing poker ( confusion upon enemies )
* A dead Roman Gladiator ( sword and shield melee for Booker ?? )
* A Macy's Thankgiving day balloon float of Underdog ( Crash into a Barge/Zeppelin )
* A Gestapo Officer asking for 'Papers' ( a Mel Brooks absurdism )
* A 12 foot tall pillar of uncanned Tuna fish and 1000 Cats running towards it ( an area block )
* Andrew Ryan putting ( a flotilla of Flybots go after anyone getting 'too near' )
* 3 Nihilistic german motorcycle creeps demanding money ( The Big Lobowski Maneuver )
* 50000 toy marbles spilling onto the ground
* A three headed giant ( Jefferson&Washington&Franklin ) & insurance salesman
... All of these make about as much sense ( as a 'Samurai' ).
--- --- ---
Illogic : Bees - but the BD is in a sealed suit...
Answer - It is really something a bit different than actual 'Bees'
"Are they African or European Swallows (Bees)" Monty Python and the Holy Grail 
--- --- ---
StoryBoarded Scenes]] new page ???
Scenes composed very early - some for their 'Awesomness' ...
Lighthouse]]
Since the people stopped coming by 1952 - So How/Why is there a TOO EARLY ADAM Product Advertisement included ?? (( So what's a little MORE illogic - or lack of proofreading of game details ? Things too late to remove if it was spotted ? ))
It was funny ( illogical of course ) they left in all that "Introdustion" verbiage - Seen/heard in your Lighthouse Descent scene ( strangly shown as if the people going to Rapture DID NOTt already know 10 X as much about Rapture BEFORE they were accepted, and would actually be allowed to go there ... )
(( It is Illogical to even have the Lighthouse 'Sticking up like a Sore Thumb' - Announcing to the World where SECRET Rapture was ... But some writers "Dont let Logic, Reason or Fact ( or other game details ) get in the way of Their Plot", and Storyboarded Scenes ))
 
SImilar Writer Convienence : NOT Letting you hear early some radio transmissions of Atlas NOT 'being so warm and fuzzy' -- Avoiding a better but more complex/difficult Psychodrama for the game when you really didn't know 'who to trust' ( versus just being an ignorant-dupe/pawn, being led by the nose like a beeve on the way to the abattoir - as you basicly WERE throughout the game. )
-- --- ---
Computers]] McClendon]]
McClendon Home Computer :
* This whole concept is likely a Satire on the ( recently modern ) Home Computer Idea - the clunky old-time computers being pushed/advanced forward, presented as something for home use. In OUR World, they were presented as having mundane 'Home' uses ( which was actually very little besides playing games UNTIL the Spread Sheet programs came along ). 
* Current low-end smartphones have more computing power than machines of this type ( Even than the average Mainframe of that era ).
* Such 'mini' systems (Real World) began to be used by smaller businesses, where they saved a great deal of expenses for accounting, billing, and inventory control.
* During the Era of those early computers, theories and predictions about Artificial Intelligence were made which were terribly, AND which have (for the most part) STILLl not been achieved.
* See Bio-Electronics for the path to having such a product.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:BioShock
its about smugglin ? about those hung ?
find the ryan msg VVV
Why would Ryan need to say this?? (( Is it mouthing the game developers way of thinking ?? - DO They paint everyone who doesn't "think like they do" as already assumed to be monsters ?? ))
Ryan would NOT need to say something this absolutist. SO he was 'Betrayed by the Weak', those who ALSO Betrayed so many other Citizens of Rapture as well ??? SO Killing them is the only option ? ( apparently that's the only option/choice the writers are giving Ryan ). Are these people who betrayed him (and Rapture) even 'innocent' to begin with ? Ryan was a man who found solutions. 
This is a stupid statement like asking Ken Levine : "If what you absolutely loved was being destroyed, then You WOULD Kill the transgressors ?? AND Give Up your Humanity ?? ANSWER YES OR NO. "
Sorry, it is too much a lame contrivance to FORCE Ryan to be a one-dimensional strawman 'Baddie'.
-
EASY SOLUTION : Imagine if Ryan proposed to have an ADAM-based Amnesia Tonic created that would wipe the memories ( knowledge of Rapture ) from those who 'wished to leave' ( and thus not compromise the Safety of the rest who 'wish to stay' ) ?? But no, in Rapture 'the City of Wonders', no such option is ever suggested - even IF the plot still has to have Ryan die.
BTW - Where is that quote in the game? 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Songbird Fun]]
No Showdown Between Booker and Songbird :
The game's ( any of them ) combat AI was not very sophisticated, and any 'Boss Fight' likely WOULD have been as simplistic as the BS1 ending. They ran out of time, so likely could not have done better anyway. The Set-piece mob (Arena Battles) and target objects/goals would keep the Player busy for long enough.
The designers probably quite early had storyboarded the 'Child Growing Up Discarding Her Toy' scene ( Lizzie arriving in Rapture and Songbird's swansong ) way back in the last story revision cycle, so Songbird' s preservation up to that point was assured ( not killed in a 'Boss Fight' ). 
The Songbird could then grow in size to be proper Cutscene Bogeyman, when he didn't have to have actual combat with you in the usual terrain. Imagine - a gimp-suited parakeet running through gerbil habit-trail tunnels ... It would have been absurd to see ( and again the Terrain Navigation AI was simplistic in this game - '2D', with no real '3D' movement for flying ( having the Songbird fly without precanning it would NOT really work ).
--- --- ---
BaS Illogic]]
'Prime' :
It would have been the simplest thing to be an alternate universe/dimension/quantum-branching - a FUNDAMENTAL idea/thing which the parent game was BASED around. THAT, so simply, could explain all deviations.
Unfortunately, the writers shoehorned too much into a short period of critical events in Rapture's original story - way too jarringly : Fontaine, the previously a mogul is absurdly built up more, and has now become a WYK moron ( and as a foolhardy Atlas ). Suchong has amazingly become a quantum engineer ( and who died too early ). Big Daddies are just Pimps now ... ***Quantum particles can do anything*** is demonstrated again, and 'pinky god' Elizabeth does her magical things. ADAM is conveniently backstitched into Infinite's context ( with Fink now a genius geneticist ), and the original Infinite cosmological logic is contradicted.
--- --- ---
scenes BS2]] find a wiki thing talking about this subject 
Sofia Lamb sets off explosions supposedly at spots supporting Persephone, which would supposedly fall into the Abyss ...
Other explosions and nothing is falling yet. Eleanor says 'were falling' as she is running into pile of explosives - then she bugs-out/Teleports - Who knows what she assumed ? That big pile of explosives could be largely fake/defective, Otherwise Delta would be reduced to hamburger AND that 'Lifeboat' crushed. 
--- --- ---
research camera]]
Ka-Ching Research TONIC - Yay !!!
Note that many ADAM Tonics/Plasmid(?) come from use of the Research Camera
How this works apart from a convenient 'gameply mechanic' - it doesn't seem to make sense (realistically) - with a 'camera' dispensing Tonics.
Supposed it represents the Player gaining 'knowledge' in the process that helps you combating/manipulating specific target types within the game. 
They could have just added/advanced a +1 attribute to the relevant activities dealing with the 'target type' and NOT had some 'game object' that fit in the Tonic Slots mechanism.
Fortunately, the MMORPG can be built nore flexibly for stuff like this.
--- --- ---
Sofia Lamb]]
Sofia Lamb's BS :
Tallking to Delta : "The faithful do not die in fear, as you did; we achieve martyrdom."
"We" ??? 
Never seems to be her though does it ??? ... Other Rapture Family people give their lives willingly or unwillingly. BUT, as usual with this kind of person, 'She' never seems to pay any such price for HER goals/agenda/delusion/cause. ( She might claim she dedicated her whole life to it. )
--- --- ---
Roleplay]]
Rollplay Tenenbaum - presenting it well might be a difficult achievement
Borderline Autism/Aspergers
Freaky shit about Fontaine (from Novel)
What did she do in her spare time ?
She had that huge apartment ( largely empty/looted by the BS1 game time )
--- --- --- 
Jack Project]]
WHERE (In Rapture) Jack was 'Made'....
The Story says Fontaine started making Jack something like 2 years before he was killed. Fontaine would want it kept secret/well-hidden, and not likely done where other Fontaine Futuristics staff ( or anyone else ) would find it.
The first fairly delicate parts of the process would be in a clean lab. Later there would be the 'gestation' which would need a stable environment. When Jack was 'born' he would then have to be cared for as he rapidly grew, and his 'conditioning' started immediately. Once Jack was 'mobile', then more space was needed to do all the various physical activity/training. Later he might be taken about some parts of Rapture - simply to vary the environment he was exposed to.
Some work perhaps was done in Suchong's Clinic in Hestia ? ( 'same as his 'Death via Daddy' Scene ) Other parts of the process may have been done in Suchong's residence.
Later Jack can 'walk in' to other places... 
Possibly segments were done in the main building or the 'secret lab' complex (Fontaine Futuristics) was used - them having a wide variety of useful equipment available.
How big a facility for 'conditioning' ? ( Jack aint just sitting in a chair in front of a projector for all of it )
Audio Visual conditioning 'rigs' dont take up much space, but larger 'live action' methods would take far more varied space.
Issue of repeats due to failures ( It being all an experimental process ) : In the early stages various cloning techniques ( already developed/used for the ADAM research/production ) would allow for many 'restarts'. Later stage failures would cause longer delays, and it would be logical to proceed in 'Batches'. So space for storage and 'maintaining' additional 'subjects' would be reuired.
Timeline ?? dif stages
--- --- ---
Tenenbaum]]
Jack Who ? :
Much of the 'Jack' Project started while Tenenbaum was working for Fontaine ( Kashmir Minus Two ) - on the Slug-Host ADAM Process, and various aspects of the Plasmid/Tonic development ( along with Suchong ).
Tenenbaum does not seem to know of Jack's existance ( as a made thing by Fontaine ) - or if she did know, how far it went to link to the goon she sees in front of her when the Player first meets her in Medical Pavilion (the First Little Sister scene).
Suchong apparently did NOT go bragging about his achievement (Jack) to her. And Tenenbaum does NOT seems to have walked into the secure area(s) where the whole project was taking place ( or heard the rumors 'around the water cooler' ).
--- --- ---
A REDO Psychodrama :
A modified BioShock game made a bit more complex than the original.
WYK was limited or Fontaine could have just said "Would you kindly harvest the Little Sister" or "March over to Hephaestus and Kill Ryan, Now."
He likely could not because his control of Jack was rather tenuous ( hence his staged fake family death, etc ...) 
So there is potential for 'Resistance' by the Player, and Fontaine having to use different tactics to 'chivvie you along'.
IF you KNEW about the WYK (figured it out), and what Atlas really was (sociopath), then such control WOULDN'T be so automatic.
Added Game Aspects/Structure :
* You look/investigate, and can see more hints about the truth of it all - You can, while looking/searching around, find more information/clues. ( Hopefully WITHOUT huge glowey arrows pointing at it ... )
Scenes where you can attempt to break his hold - to diverge from the path Fontaine wants. How these Choices would somehow be offered ( preferably WITHOUT it becoming a "Press (D) to Defy or (N) to Nothing" prompt ) - and such resistance might take some clever design to have in the game.
Ex- For some reason he want you to kill a secondary character ( perhaps thinking they will interfere ) but you just proceed to bypass them.
There is difficulty because you can't Talk - to question Atlas or to say "No' ... ( It simplified the gamemaking and having the vagueness of the original game. (( Talking Booker in Infinite BS basically told you what to think - The game was far too 'hand-holdy' compared to the previous games. ))
More would have to be added - things Atlas could do when he figures out that YOU figured things out (to counter your 'resistance' - perhaps exposing even more how ruthless he was.
The overall story could/would still happen - In the end the WYK would have its effect for you to to kill Ryan -- and after that you get filled in with alot more truth as Fontaine brags about all he did.
--- --- ---
AD Analysis]]
The_Source_of_Her_Power << ??? AD
Tears]]
Elizabeth's magical Pinky ... 
Nothing is special about a (tip of the smallest finger) 'pinky' cut off a babies hand. Theres no metaphysical specialness about it. Would any other 'tissue' might serve WITH THE SAME EFFECT ??? 
Does that mean that anyone else who goes thru Tears, and leaves dandruff flakes ( or toenail clippings or strands of hair ) behind will manifest similar powers ??? ( Or be cut in half by a closing Tear IF that is a condition for this effect ??? ) 
Or like in "Willow" the Pinky is the most powerful finger ...
Heh. (this is weak even for Fantasy)
--- --- ---
Faux History]]
what refs for this in-game ??
Sioux Booker ? ( some empathy shit )
Wounded Knee was a short ( few days ) military engagement ( a massacre largely - though with ~30 Whites killed ) . Sioux is not something you 'learn to speak' in a few short hectic hours/days - He was also a soldier with duties and fraternizing with the ( still alive ) indians probably wouldn't be allowed.
Scaping Injuns - I wonder how hard that is to do when the corpses are frozen solid. Its hardly something to do in the middle of battle.
Find the shit about bookers Sergeant Stripes
--- --- ---
Weapon Fun ]] ??
Tactics Using the Terrain :
Handling that first Big Daddy in BS1 ( When you are so weak/underpowered )
I found that by jumping back and forth over a counter ( Medical Center on upper level with the cash register on it ) you could 'throw off' the BD - to stop his physical attacks while you fire at him long enough to kill him. 
--- --- ---
Audio Analysis]]
http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:His_Design_for_Cruelty
Comstock - His_Design_for_Cruelty :
get the AD
The missing part of his argument is : How the 'cruelty' is 'just' ( at least on God's part ). But he ( Comstock ) is playing God himself, and he does not bother to mention how "Tax the black more than the white/Forbid the mixing of the races/Give the Vote to the white man, and Deny it to the yellow, the black, the red, and the brown" is supposed to be any kind of Justice. It is merely maintaining control. The Bible, at least, gives quite full evidence about why God took the actions upon Adam and Eve and Drowning the World in the time of Noah.
A conflicting in the whole ( contrived ) game plot/story was : About the building of this alleged 'White People' paradise/ark ( Columbia ) - When they allowed all the other 'lesser' races even on-board ( or keep them on-board after 20 years of time )?? Building and maintaining it should be the task/high-achievement of the 'White Man' alone, shouldn't it? ( And in the context of this story, the 'tech stuff' from Tears should have made that possible... ) And the more 'primitive' peoples would ALWAYS be inept and potentially a Threat ( and a Temptation ) to the 'White Folk'. Similar issue for Unbelievers,
'But when all is said and done', this game turned out merely to be a Shoot-em-up Blast-fest. The writers 'saw to it' that Logic and Reason ( and History ) were NOT to get in the way of generating a situation where constant gunplay was the primary Player action ( spiced up with those special 'Execution' moves ).
The Class War shown in the original Previews/Trailers were much more interesting/promising than this later divergence into "Religious Fanaticism", and thence into the Pseudo-Science multiverse fantasy weirdness. It bears no resemblance to the reality of the 1893/1912-era America ( which were the issues they originally portrayed the game having as its "Dystopia" setting. 
THEN, in their rush to meet a publishing deadline/budget, the whole remaining mish-mosh was churned into a contorted irrelevant mess.
--- --- ---
Columbia Population ]]
Xenophobes : mixing of races
Other people like immigrants bringing in different culture/ideas/values which can lead to uncertainty ( people like their safe inertia and predictability ) 
There were Immigrants of similar "race", but different culture. ie- Northern Irish who were Protestants later were against the influx of Southern Irish who were Catholics. Later large influx of Germans ( Saxons = white ) was feared to be changing the political situation. So there was more than 'race' being involved. Even those Irish Catholics arriving around the start of the Civil War into Northern cities didn't want black slaves being freed and emigrating north to compete for the low level jobs they had.
--- --- ---
RetCon]]
Charlie and Brenda and the HUGE Kashmir the BaS DLC Retconned ???
I forget if the Novel elaborated much on these characters -- The place sounded a little more classy than the dialog we heard in BS1 from the owner. It should have looked more like the MP Kashmir level map to be the place 'the Big Party' for the Rapture hoity-toities to have their New Years Eve. ( We saw a not too large party venue at the start of BS2 )
Anyway we now have the excuse of saying 'Well this isnt the Original place, so it must be just another one of 'Infinite' dimensions - and I can have them do anything I want ...
--- --- ---
Alternates]] REDO]]
Big_Brother ... Little Brothers ... :
What did happen to all thos OTHER children ??? (Early research for Little Sisters showed that boys did not work for that Slug-Host role - We dont know how many 'experimantal subjects' were disposed of from THAT project.
Needs some different mechanism/element, else it is just (fanfiction style) recombining/lumping more of the same stuff/effects. 
IDEA : "Little Brothers" running around as a Gang, and you ' The Fagin' coordinating their movements and tactics -- and more varied missions of Mugging Splicers, Bribing Big Daddies, Stealing stuff, ( simple maze solving with 'Darkness' ), Running away with diversion tricks when things get too hot or thru Vents ... -- All things feral kids would have to do to have survived in what Rapture turned into.
Little Undertakers : Someone has to take your unconscious corpse to the Vita-Chambers ...
Fanfic : " Big Brother would rely almost completely on weapons" but still would be using some thing like Tonics to get all the strength needed, and things like resistance to water pressure ( changes ) -
Which are very much the same things a Big Daddy would have got ( and maybe last longer/dont' use up EVE, etc... )
Better : Perhaps they were the result of the failed attempt to accelerate 'orphan' boys to use for Big Daddies - instead of (or added to) the criminals and Fontaine's experimentation mistakes/byproducts.
--- --- ---
http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:ZanyDragon/Rochester,_the_Flower_City#comm-41978
 ^^^ ???
Columbia : 'White Men Dont Work' ??
We saw lots of Selling (Shops in Columbia), but not "Making" the hundreds of different things a Real City Full of People would Consume,
Get from The Surface - Buy of Steal ???
That could be a good thing or a bad thing -- since Columbia probably steals and kidnaps to get the supplies it needed to run ( They can't really be selling/trading any High Tech to the World ?? That's a whole missing plotline, fraught with complications ). 
Paying for All the Stuff ???
Heh, a secret 'Tear' into an alternate Fort Knox to get the $$$ cash (Gold) needed to buy/bribe the material they need - via a ground based wing of the Floating City... Unfortunately, with the obviously inept abilities for such operations (witness the Vox still existing), it would be a huge risk of security/safety - opening too many uncontrollable things to menace the Flying Cult Compound. 
--- --- ---
http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:ZanyDragon/Another_unlimted_money_spot#comm-41974
Unlimited Money Spots in BioShock : 
Limited utility, as its only one 'monetization' in the game (other was ADAM), an with fairly low wallt capacity (which could be held at one time).
Kind of like the racetrack gambling in GTA San Andreas where you could Save-and-reload to get the Big Win ( 12 to 1 odds ? ) and then don't have to worry about buying stuff ever again ( except there I didn't have a Safehouse nearby and had to re-drive a somewhat long path to get to 'Place the Bet' - Heh, I got real good driving that slice of the map ) ...
Players can cheat if they want to, but that just makes anyone else's achievements pointless to compare yourself to ( if they don't cheat ), and it takes away any validity of easily-cheated 'Achievements' ( Do most Players really care anymore about comparing them ?? They are largely a channel for advertisements when you have to login to a website to access 'scores'. )
The MMORPG would block/eliminate such loopholes.
--- --- ---
EVE]]
Injected in large amounts to power the Plasmids ( Tonics apparently not needing it, possibly with normal biochemical levels in the body sufficient to power them ). Likely problems with degredation via stomach acids, or absorption efficiency.
Generally NOT drinkable. The effect of things like Coffee (in-game) had to boost your 'Blue Line' may have been a physiological effect which upped the efficiency of the EVE you body alreday had.
--- --- ---
Missions
MMORPG Mission Markers/Hints/Indicators/Annunciators
Issue : Making missions too Ornate/Complicated
We need innovative/unusual things to be parts of the Missions - but not make it tedious or mystifying to the average Player. You can make it too tedious or unsolvable ( or things done is some strange way the Player is not likely to think of ) the Players will say "FUCK THIS" ( and the effort creating the Mission is thus wasted. ) AND Players start to wonder if the Mission Scripting is broken and the programmers are lazy retards. 
Players don't like having to reread things to figure out what they have to do in a game. More detail just means more to read.
Players get frustrated and can't figure them out if too obscure. Intentionally obscured ... makes it even worse ( but we shouldn't turn all into a just 'Go pick that crap up right there' ... YES RIGHT THERE ... type of mission ). If designed with Randomization, the Player can't just 'Look them Up' on the internet
So for the sake of Gameplay, some help can be given :
* GLOWEY highlighting Indicators to point out the item needed to further the Mission
* Team NPCs can assist by pointing them out
* Timers - Too long a time and the thing (solution) is made more obvious, but the rewards are made more limited/smaller. But, the Player can 'get on with it'. Players can Learn and do better with similar things next time. 
* Timer-based 'Hints' ( or asking an NPC ) might help the Players along instead of jamming them.
* We DONT WANT the 'Back and Forth' for subsequent sub-searches. That is the domain of OLD games that had 'only so much' terrain ( largely empty ) and few objects, and things that hardly looked like anything real.
--- --- ---
types of assets ]] templates]]
Mission Prolfile Template :
Templates to systemize all this (building blocks), and guidlines for inserting them into Player Created Missions. 
Missions ARE fairly complex game Objects - This could be a wizard input type outline to help the Composer a great deal with all of it.
The process would remind the Mission composer/author of all the different Mission aspects which need to be filled-in and specified. 
There would be huge amounts of DEFAULT attributes and data which could be left alone. Others would be just Common Selections/Flavors - easily chosen. BUT IF the Mission composer wishes something non-standard, then such things can be specialized/customized.
--- --- ---
Novel]]
Problem is : Rapture would have balanced itself if not for the overwhelming ability of ADAM to overpower other social mechanisms - insane terrorists with super powers in a closed fragile setting.
Objectivism has sufficient corrective mechanisms ( Pre-New Deal America largely operated under such ) , but even with their overpowering Ringer, the writers ignored various aspects of the Rapture's Objectivist philosophical society - which SHOULD have been there ( and been in play effecting events). Squelching those aspects was done just to facilitate their dystopic game plot (( NOT clever enough 'to work around them' ??? )).
The Novel author continues with that omission ( even exaggerates it even more ) as he really couldn't diverge from the games story ( and needed to 'spice up' the book ).
--- --- ---
Player Comment :
I was hoping to get more from Infinite. It is a gorgeous looking game, but I personally was disappointed with the simplified gameplay and underrealized world building.
--- --- ---
BioShock in Name Only]]
Infinitely Worse 
The 2 gun limit, removal of alternate ammo types, doing away with research/hacking, less resource management ( HP kits/Eve hypes/ADAM ), gene tonics getting replaced with magic clothes, less environmental hazards ( water to zap, oil to burn, explosives to make traps with ), and less reactive enemy AI ( enemies no longer fleeing for health stations when weak and diving into water when ignited ) overall just made the gameplay feel more shallow.
--- --- ---
Authentic Diversity]
Authentic Diversity - REALLY ? 
"Ken Levine decided shortly before final VO recording that the game needed more female characters" - JP LeBreton
It seems this "Diversity" of Levine's wasn't much a consideration with the original intention in the first BioShock. 
--- --- ---
Player Comment on Infinite :
Very linear: You can’t backtrack and there aren’t optional paths/encounters or anything. There is a lot more scripting and it generally feels like you are having your hand held the entire game.
Shallow Gameplay : You never have to use your vigors in combat and they feel very slapped-on. With the two weapon limit you never get to experiment and will likely be repelled from the more situational weapons. Any sense of strategy you would fighting a Big Daddy is gone, you won’t be setting traps with mines or waiting for the perfect time to snipe an explosive barrel. Combat would feel like a corridor shooter if weren’t for the skyhook and Elizabeth.
The Creepy Atmosphere of the First game is Gone - Common enemies don’t feel threatening. Without said atmosphere it isn’t as fun to listen to Audio Logs, especially when you just get interrupted each time you try. The ending didn’t make much sense and even if it did, the ‘infinite universes’ thing felt lazy.
SO Much Cut Content And Rushed Kludged Together Result : The biggest issue : The BioShock: Infinite which we got, versus the One which was originally shown in Presentations feels like a huge downgrade. In interviews, the devs spoke with passion about what they were working on with footage to accommodate it, but somewhere down the line something changed.
Conclusion : BioShock: Infinite was an Average Game. It failed to live up to the BioShock name. Most of all, it didn’t even feel like a BioShock game. I really believe that Infinite did not deserve the BioShock name.
--- --- ---
Aspects of This MMORPG]]
HANDLING A Dynamic MMORPG World Game Mechanism For Low Spec :
 
Rendering Dynamic Game World ( NOT the Locked-in 'Baked' Static Terrain with few independant Objects )'''
There needs to be ways to limit the Dynamic Asset-pull ( getting the Data into the GPU from disk or network ) for Players having less-than-optimal 'Specs' on their systems ( and the chronicly-behind Console systems ) :
* Range-of-interaction Limiters ( Futher-away has Simplified ( or not even rendered ), which isn't hard to do in Claustrophobic Rapture )
* Efficient Preloading Schemes ( ie- to be ready for next Objects seen in direction of travel ) 
* LOD ( Level Of Detail ) SMART programming ( more distant object drawn with simpler detail )
* Cruder Graphics Modes as an option ( GPU capabilities can be the biggest dif between Player systems and Less Data to transfer ). 'Dumbing-down' graphics can still be playable. 
* High-end Graphics are still kept well-available ( Easy - you can ALWAYS push MORE content at highest detail level )
* Prioritize Object Rendering ( ex- in Combat, various normal 'loot' objects are not rendered )
* Terrain that limits Visibility ( blocks the needing to view many objects - Pulling Data and the Rendering )
* Bubble World scenarios must continue to work properly ( they are designed for 'Built-on-the-fly' contained situations ) 
--- --- ---
Infinite Illogic]]
Lighthouse, Man, City -- RUBBISH :
That's all just some quantum M-verse magic crap they added for the third game to make believe its "BIOSHOCK".
Rapture was home to BioShock - "Bio" ( ADAM's effect on Society ) and "Shock" ( the destructive effect it took in Rapture ).
Columbia had the Vigor copycat-Plasmids added with little explanation ( bass-ackwards retrofitted in the DLC, and character quantum duplicates had to Timetravel to RAPTURE for that linkage ). Tthe Columbia Cultist Police State place was a Dystopia without any 'bio' involvement ( or even science - they were just shitbags getting a rebellion ). The "Quantum" Pinky Magic Girl was the center of all the things happening in the game, and Faux-Physics was what made for the game isolated setting. 
They should have called it PhysicsShock or QuantumShock:Infinite to actually make sense, and had the Magic-power Potions be caused by Quantumz.
--- --- ---
Tiki Bar in Rapture ( in Carnival ? )
Serving their version of "The Zombie" ( cocktail ), which probably got simpler in composition as time went on ( and ingredients ran out ).
"The Zombie" is a classic Tiki drink by legendary bartender and restaurateur Donn Beach, of "Don the Beachcomber". It’s one of many popular cocktails that were created and served at the fun-loving Hollywood bar, which opened in 1933 and was responsible for kicking off the Tiki craze.
The Zombie is a drink that features three different rums : Jamaican, Puerto Rican and 151-proof" along with fresh lime juice, falernum, grenadine, a few drops of anise-flavored liqueur and Donn’s mix, which is essentially a cinnamon simple syrup mixed with fresh grapefruit juice. It’s emblematic of many cocktails served at Beach’s bar: strong and complex with lots of ingredients and multiple rums. But the Zombie fits perfectly with his philosophy: "If you can’t get to paradise, I’ll bring it to you." 
 "The Zombie" https://www.liquor.com/ 
--- --- ---
missions]]
Mission : Find the scattered X (objects)
Into 'odd corners' ( not obvious, you can find 2 or 3 together so as to shorten the Mission ) - gets Players to look around a bit more in the game terrain ( which someone went to the trouble to create )
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Every Door and Hatch Has Something Behind It :
But might be temporarily ( for game purposes ) blocked by heavy wedged-up rubble that might be thick enough to take forever to clear with your adventuring tools ( "Blasting" is Generally prohibitive, except with a City Expert NPC, and much preparation ).
Some Doors have been 'Sealed' to prevent leakage ... 
Then later, someone else may have cleared it to give access ( Expanding City mechanism of the MMORPG ). Initial layout of all buildings ( and Auto-Gen constructs ) has to have the active components/interfaces in place for these "Future" 'connections'. 
So another 'Asset Type' is the different 'Access Blockage Patches', and the Templates supporting them. 
This all is generally beyond the 'Twisty Passages' methods of randomized Auto-Generated Missions ( generic terrain in which doors can be added/removed when needed. )
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Sinclair ?]]
 "Killing Two Birds With One Stone" - Farms For The Poor
This would be one of Sinclair's Projects maybe ( his niches ) - and not a 'handout', but still something Ryan might 'not care for'. 
For those destitute people who would actually want to work ( and could ) and some part of it is THEIR OWN FOOD ( the old game writers would make him have abusive 'sharecropping' )
There was always more work needed for this activity/production ( and opportunities for specialty )
And as ADAM disabled more people who now couldn't work, then THOSE real jobs became available to those who were only 'down on their luck' instead of being Splicers.
Lots of different jobs for this work - some workable for half-disableds
Really insane ones who were disruptive would 'Get the Bums Rush' 
--- --- ---
BS3]]
BS3 idea : People wearing breathing masks because of the foul air of the 'dystopia', even oxygen boost with various accoutrements ( so face detail 'savings' )
This also an idea for the MMORPG - for the 'not so good' parts of Rapture which gets explored.
Darth Vader breathing sound effects, etc...
--- --- ---
Johnny T]]
Johnny Topside ( who became Delta ) probably was reasonably wealthy or had wealthy backers to operate a ship/boat with an exploration Bathysphere ( a pod on a line/cable lowered into Ocean and supported/maintained by the ship and crew ).
He perhaps was part-of/connected-to the International Geophysical Year ( 1957-1958 ) events 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Geophysical_Year
He MIGHT have gotten some hints of something interesting - so to look around in the vicinity of Rapture ( but the Ocean IS rather large and you can wander doing dives for years and years across its surface -- so mere coincidence finding Rapture is too unlikely )
Even where the HMS Hood sank, it is like 200 miles away.
--- --- ---
Agriculture]]
Meat Production :
Goats and chicken eat less for the amount of meat they produce ( and cheese you need some milk to make ). Rabbits are eaten in many parts of the World.
To produce all the grains ( staple of most civilizations ) you have a byproduct of the rest of the plant ( even if it is 'less' through use of dwarf varieties ), with which the other animals would be fed - including cows ( they would be somewhat more expensive ).
Even with cheaper protein substitures ( soybeans ), you still have that leftover vegetation which could be used ( and IS used in RL ) as animal feed. I recall 'silage' is partially fermented ( adding yeast to add additional nutrients )... You have 'compost' for anything else.
-
Certainly, many of the things NOT seen in-game may have still been there - They just were much more expensive or less variety was available ( and seasonal/limited supply or inferior quality ). People smuggle cigarettes in the real world just to bypass taxes ( though THEY dont have to contend with maintaining a Submarine ). We are also seeing Rapture in Ruined state where such things would be 'long gone'.
Rapture would HAVE TO HAVEMoving all the mass food via submarine for 20000 people would be as fantastical as Elizabeths pinky god powers huge farms/orchards to provide the food and other things required ( you can't really eat just Fish ), and animals like cows can be raised eating many of the plant products. Grass is 'not that hard' to grow in hydroponics, and there is other silage from byproduct ( like corn stalks ) fed to cows and other livestock.
Ryan could have had his world organization search out varieties of all kinds of things which could be grown in Rapture successfully.
--- --- ---
Contraband]]
Theres Beef and then theres BEEF, ditto Tobacco, etc... 
( little extras like 20 year old Single Malt Whiskey... etc... )
Of course, the highest valued ( maximizes profits ) Smuggling Goods go mostly to rich people ( who can afford it regularly ). Look how much some people pay for Kobe Beef or Lobsters or Caviar or Fine Wines or even Spices. Quality can be a major factor for such Contraband ( Or even plain things NOT Rapture-grown, which some people would like 'a little of' just for something different - There are thousands of foods from the Surface world and Rapture would still have a limited variety ( even if they had many in production ).
People likely brought supplies with them - of some of 'the good stuff' not produceable in Rapture, but after all the years, those things would be running out. 
-
IDEA - Servant of a "Rich Rapturite" grabbing the garbage to extract all the still usable bit (and things like Seeds) from their 'masters' meals, and selling them on to entreprenures who can make use of such things in Rapture 'difference starved' environment.
-
Sub-plots of previous involvements with Fontaine to smuggle alot the high end stuff ( the same Prohibition style scofflaw issue ... ) All the facility and infrastructure which had to exist, and the People who were involved - Fleshing out Backstory (with Flashbacks), and possibly Roleplaying that interesting activity - including interfaces with The Surface. 
--- --- ---
kittycats in rapture]]
No KittyCats were harmed in the making of this MMORPG
--- --- ---
Kitty cats in Rapture]]
Cats (pets) not allowed ?
Several brands of cat food are seen in-game : Aloof/Fussy Cat. How likely would that be if they ( domestic cats ) were illegal in Rapture ??? And we saw quite many dead ones, so they obviously were still present ( Including in BS2 and Minervas Den ( 1968ish ) )
Unfortunatley corpses do kinda last well past their expiration date in Rapture for some reason... ( Odd scene of a Little Sister sticking her ADAM-extractor into a Dead Cat ...)
--- --- ---
denizens]] ? kittycats in rapture]]
Cat
Oscar Calraca[src] : "I got me a handsome collection of felines, topside, of all shapes and sizes. Ain't no woman alive could part me from my pussy cats. And here's ol' Andy Ryan tryin' to tell me I can't bring my babies down here? "
was this from the MP (DLC) ? this character smuggling in cats
Cats are small domesticated mammals. They were a logical animal to have in Rapture. Not just as pets, but for the inevitable task of vermin control. Several are encountered in the BioShock series, but all, except those in 'Paris', are dead. We saw canned food for cats i-game ...
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The cat's name in Optimized Eugenics was probably named "Jean" .....
Fortold...
"The gods' decision three thousand years ago to ban cats from straddling the borders of the Netherworld." - Something some crazy Splicer said ...
So Cats discovered the various Lutece effects LONG before the events of Columbia ( or did Fink and Suchong create the Egyptian civilization too?? ) Flying Pyramids ?
Does the 'Prophet' like Cats ? 
--- --- ---
Ryan Not Dead]]
Ryan CONNING the 'Conman' Fontaine ( "Make a Better Con..." )
**** add def of conman ref ?
--- --- ---
Infinite REDO]]
Alternates]]
Little Angels for Columbia :
Would Not Fit :
If they were going to walk around 'Gathering' (like in Rapture) - Or maybe flying - which would match 'Little Angle' a whole lot more ... But if that has to be from bodies of ADAM users -- Then that requires an extended period of massive fighting ( for the corpses ) AND significant ADAM use. It would require the need/effort for someone to have to recycle ALOT of ADAM that difficult way - ie- a crisis. (( BioShock's own game history and timeline about Rapture's Little Sisters is kept quite Vague, even when the logical circumstances is actually there. ))
Columbia, for much of the game, was largely stable and under control ( and largely a Police State ). So for the time to create the 'Little Angles' with a death-filled situation ( to have corpses ), the Vox war would have to go on for a long time with mass death ( and requiring well matched sides to have it last long enough ). (( That is even with the Wave of the Hand way they did so much o fthat game. )) 
AN Alternate might be : Creepier 'Little Angels' harvesting BLOOD from the underclasses ( and not necessarily dead people - Vampirism ). Blood which is feeding the child-embedded Sea_Slugs who produced ADAM for Fink - Perhaps ADAM then being used more as a limited expensive 'restorative' for the Founder people ( and then Plasmids being created to empower the Upper Class, etc... ). (( Mass use by the population would make even less sense in this scenario than it did in the published game. ))
Have these as 'Alternate Universes' ...
--- --- ---
Cuz]]
Player Comment about BaS]]
I didn't like the way Columbia and Rapture were poured together. Then you keep randomly transitioning between these cities just for the lolz, and to muddy the waters even more. The devs just wanted too hard to say "Hey Player, look at all the awesome lore connections we made between Rapture and Columbia ! SEE, It all comes together ! Crazy and awesome, isn't it? !" 
Yeah, It just ended up inconsistent.
--- --- ---
Elizabeth]]
Consider : "Omniscient" Elizabeth who did not see or care that by helping the sociopath Atlas just to save one Sally, SHE was actively condemned 20000 people to death.
There is that poignant scene in BioShock where you come upon a family who have taken poison - committed suicide - little girls there dead - Elizabeth caused that.
--- --- ---
Daddy]]
Big Daddies who were blind - machine sensors added restoring sight ? With ADAM that wouldnt make sense ( added eyes maybe ??? )
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Jack]]
One-eyed Jack .... a wildcard 
A better name for the "Plan D".
Should had Jack (character) with an eyepatch ...
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Rapture map]]
Check the tick marks 100 foot next to the mile I think I'm like 100+ ft off 11 and 1/2 ticks when quarter mile is 1250+70 5280/4
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Canon]] infinite section
Canon Poisoned by DLC - A Player's Statement :
The premise of the DLC story ( I want to clarify that I'm not talking about the entire storyline), but the fact the devs pulled strings to make Booker's sacrifice worthless in order to create some DLC. Booker died to kill all versions of Comstock, but a single Comstock magically survived despite the main story of Infinite making it clear that it is impossible.
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Wiki]]
Writing all this stuff - considering what was presented in the game - that it was allegorical far beyond anything Levine or writers thought of it.
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WYK]]
Fontaine's WYK control may have been tenuous, and overuse of the Control Phrase perhaps might break Jack's conditioning before 'Atlas' got what he really wanted. Other methods of reinforcement could be used - and Fontaine WAS a 'conman'. Thus using the faked family 'killed' to try to convince Jack to go after Ryan - We really don't know to what extent that scene was staged. We see Rapture in ruins, but it would be logical for Atlas to take Jack through areas Ryan least controlled. Who knows, Atlas might even have sent that first Splicer to disembowel his gormless lackey Johnny when we first arrive in our Bathysphere - just to shock Jack and start off the 'Ryan caused all this' Mantra.
--- --- ---
Self-Debilitation and Objectivism :
free drug use leads to 'poor' (for a segment of society) just part of self-responsibility ( and others should NOT have to pay for it )
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businesses]] 
House Plants ( a competition for people to outdo each other ...) - edibles !!!
Chinese Laundry ( that might have fit better into Columbia - but some entrepreneur chose to select it )
Opium Den ("Suchong have good Opium...") He (or another) might have brough alot with him ?
Objectivism Coffee House - 'Beatnick style' with a philosophical twist
Cat Food Company ( DO NOT go in their back rooms if you have a weak stomach )
--- --- ---
bioshock in name only]]
Player Comment about Using "BioShock" Name :
I think if it had been named something completely different, I would have enjoyed it more.
The main issues I see are:
* The other 2 Bioshock games allow the Player to skip combat and play the way you like, but in Infinite you're required to kill all enemies before you can progress, making it feel like a generic FPS game.
* The ending of the base game was ruined by the DLC which made Booker's death absolutely pointless.
* There were no alternative endings so there's no real replayability.
*The character's are not really as fleshed out as the other Bioshock games. This is mainly because of the "different dimensions" mechanic making it pointless to flesh out the characters because they might be completely different in another dimension. For instance the rebel leader who you meet for 15 seconds in a cutscene and then another 10 seconds before she is murdered by Elizabeth. Compare this to Cohen which the game devotes an entire section to and even after you complete that section, you can still talk and interact to Cohen ( the dancing couple ).
* I felt Elizabeth didn't act the way you would expect in certain scenes, for instance she is upset and undergoes a massive change after killing a stranger with scissors, but when she drowns her own father she doesn't even look upset or reluctant
* I actually like Elizabeth, but as a main character, I feel she needed fleshing out much much more
* The E3 trailer looked amazing compared to what we actually got
* Unlike the other games, you're only allowed 2 weapons and no special ammo
* You can't heal yourself at any point unlike the other 2 games
--- --- ---
where? REDO]]
Chen Lin perhaps was escaping from a Tong (Chinese Mafia = death) - desperate enuf to work for 'good deal for city'
====================================
Sandbox Solo BioShock Game Someone Suggested :
A Players BioShock Game Concept
Title : Bioshock - The Invitation
START: The game starts out with a short video on the current events of the times, and the a lil voice-over from Andrew Ryan about his reasonings for building Rapture in the first place.
Character Customization - Do you live in a city or a suburb. ( I reckon it would be cool if you could also choose from 2 countries also ) - Do you live alone or with a family - What skill is it that will bring you to Rapture - Gender, race - all that good stuff
Once you’ve chosen all of that, the game kicks off with you looking at yourself in the reflection of a glass window with the focus then being drawn to what’s outside the window ( where you were living on the surface ) before something gets your attention, and you then take control of your character.
I’m thinking there will be interaction points in your living space, or with your family in your house to give some back story about your life. Then you’ll receive a knock at the door with mail. A bottle of wine with your invite to Rapture attached. This is then followed by a short Cutscene Flashback kinda thing of you making your way to the Lighthouse.
You’ll take back control of your character again, be ushered by some of Andrew Ryan’s people to the bathysphere and receive the full Bioshock 1 entry to Rapture experience. Only this time you’ll travel past areas you visited in the first two games or even BAS. Like looking down at the roof of Fort Frolic.
Once at the Welcome Centre, you can be given directions to your new house, sign some paper work and be on your way. You are told where to find the area where Ryan will give his welcome Speech.
You’ll have free reign of where you’d like to go in this space. It would be cool if there was way more detail and more open doors. Pick up your things and your family, if you brought them, and away you go. Travelling on the Trams, etc.
Depending on your choices around family, career, etc, you’ll be allocated a certain house. You can customise your house at any point. All appartments are located in Artemis Suites. You’ll be sent to your apartment after attending the welcome ceremony.
Singles - get a small apartment like the one in the Multiplayer. Couples - get larger apartment with an extra bed ( assuming they will have kids ). Families - biggest apartment
GAMEPLAY AND STORY: The next morning you’ll be off to your first day at work, which will differ depending on which skill you chose at the start of the game. Some may head to the Kashmir Restaurant, while others head to Arcadia and maybe even Hephaestus or Neptune’s Bounty.
This is where the the story line kicks off : At the start, it’s all sunshine and rainbows. You’re getting to experience Rapture to its fullest. ( I’ve always wanted to experience a lot of the Bioshock One and Two environments pre-%27civil_war%27 ). Then you start to hear things through the grape vine, maybe witness some things you weren’t meant to. I’m not sure how time would flow forward but I thought it would be cool if you could choose your side in the war. Be part of Ryan’s espionage efforts to take over Fontaine industries, be part of club Atlas, or assist those who haven’t taken sides and are just trying to survive.
There could be extra plot points like romance options, loosing your job or your house, meeting important characters like Johnny topside, Jasmine or Sander Cohen, contacting the Surface, ending up in Paupers Drop or Persephone, and maybe even trying to escape the city yourself if your character choices will it.
The ending I feel would be determined by all the choices you’ve made. Maybe you end up as a Splicer that Jack has to mow down along his journey, maybe you escape with your family, or maybe you end up trapped in a dying city, with Sofia Lamb's followers banging on your door forcing you to join their cause.
Basically I just want to be able to explore the city and meet its people before it all goes to the dogs.
 ---------- Analysis ---------- :
A problem is " All the optional things ( for those Choices you have outlined ) the Gamemakers would have to produce and make work . NPCs acting properly in a general way (in particular) are difficult to program. There are so many scenarios/encounters in day-to-day life - general and increasing with specifics to the Choices ( and variations) you have suggested.
Even in Infinite's "Battleship Bay" area, that interview-touted area 'So Much We Scripted - "thousands of lines" ' was still just a set of little independant vignettes. It had mostly talking mannequins, which once their 'spiel' was done they just stood there looking at you - it was all largely static and limited - quite obvious. They were interactively simple ( and STILL took a great deal of effort to make work ). There was no complexity, nor much interactibility, In that game, the Player is expected to shortly leave that area to proceed with the game - So it did not have to be much more than what we saw. ( It was alot like Ryan Amusements "Journey to the Surface" ride - series of impressions. ) The Burial at Sea "High" and "Market" Streets segment is a similar example - It is pretty much a 'walking sim'. The Player interacts very little there, and soon moves on. All of the Infinite games, level by level, 'move you on'. 
Choice Alternate Scenes/Reactions : If you could keep the Player moving (some path), and not have complex overlaps with different results of decisions the Player does, It would be like a Plot Tree. You STILL will have to script all the many variations available of the branching choice paths. It just cannot get too intricate/complicated or it is too much work. Even 'general' DETAILED interactivity/behavior takes a great deal of effort ( and time and money and SKILL ) to do. ( Look how little you really interacted with in Infinite BS, other than through Shooting/Killing ...)
A Sand Box game in Rapture : An adequate pre-ruin Rapture ( even just a small subset ) would require a large ambient interactive Society. That is alot of NPCs who would be Player-observed ( and interacted with ). The bigger the total area being visit-able, the more would have to be created. Ditto for all the many Props. It is also more detailed ( like a Role Playing Game ) at that point. It would also soon get bizarre with all the ways the Player would have to be prevented/blocked from getting into all the other parts of the city - which could NOT be recreated in playable detail. 
Places seen in the first games - Players would WANT to revisit : They are quite extensive, and when populated in a normal state would have very many interactions needing to be included. Most of that effort could be serve the role for the Player's daily activities - saving on that duplication of effort.
You have Plot involvement within each stage of your Story : Of significant complexity with staged events and 'missions' the Player would do ( matching their 'Choices' ). The Players affects on props means the scenery setting has to be far more complicated than what you saw in Bioshock/Infinite. Flexibly Customizing such things to logically work within the Player's potential roles/actions/results is a hard thing to do.
THEN, with your characters Game Story Progression timeline, everything in Rapture has to shift with Atlas's terrorist attacks and the %27civil_war%27. All the inhabitants' behavior/motivations have to change, and Scenery mutating due to the effects of the fighting, etc ... That requires a whole lot more design/effort/testing to make all the various changes to most of the game's Setting/NPCs/etc ... to fit the new situation. That is actually a level of work more than what is done in a MMORPG.
To try to containe the explosion of variations required : The Player may have to be 'locked in' to a more limited set of choices of who they are ( with many selected details just leading to minor cosmetic changes which don't effect everything too much ) The initial 'before you go' scene you detailed may have to be reduced significantly - as it is complex in itself and a whole lot of work for a scene that would not be used for very long. Some of the Intro assets/interactions use might overlap into the main game - lessening the added work. Most of the big history events will happen no matter what the Player does. The Choices affecting the Player/Situation would have to be smaller local changes within those events.
Something like this SandBox game could be done, but it would have to be done without lessening the Rapture Storytelling aspect of the game. The game would would revisit the main characters from a different perspective. We would have to get some NEW filled in details and events about what was there in previous games. Some new interesting 'lesser' characters/personalities could be introduced local to the Players life. The historic events then affecting them and the Player would be a very interesting part of the game.
---
New Venues :
Additional types of areas to vary the Players Activities :
* Stadium - the immense size ( won't be just a basketball-court sized place )
* Out-in-Sea Mission(s) ( use of in-water weapons/Plasmids ) several scenarios - preventing the Player walking far away would have to be handled as it was in BS2.
* Department store/Super market - FOOD FIGHT !!! (s cene of it all empty afterwhen the Chaos starts in Rapture )
* Real Farms ( I would expect cheaply build tunnels in bedrock - a huge network of them )
* Zoo/Carnival was talked of 
========================================
Fantasy]] ?
The Infinite BS game story seems based more on nebulous magic :
The floating caused by 'particles' - We don't even see how they are employed physically within the city or how the flying is 'controlled', or what might 'power it' ( if that even is there ).
The plot is driven by a 'god child'.
The Vigors are magic potions ( no explanation in-game linking to ADAM OR 'particles' ). 'Gears' not even that far.
'Infinite' which is Finite. 'Constants' said, when 'quantum' is based fundamentally on probability ( that's Variables )
Peeking through Tear portals allows complex things to be so easily done (Mirror Mirror On the Wall ...) - whether it is Prophesy or Technology into Products.
City as economically unsupported - thinner than the air Columbia rests on. 
---
Yes, the Rapture BioShock Genetics tech had a significant fantasy aspect ( seeming Psi powers to many of them ), but it was all tighter in detail about how it all worked/was developed/supplied - within a place otherwise operating WITHOUT breaking the Laws of Physics. Some unlikely massive technical advancements (like self navigating Bathyspheres or AI for the vacuum tube driver The Thinker) - but which could have alternate explanations.
--- --- ---
Jack ]]
Flight to Rapture
Ryan : "Where are you goin, Boy ?" 
That's actually a good question. I dont remember that either - the 'England' bit ...( Who/ what ).
Why Jack would be on that plane ( and flying a plane like that ~1960 Cross Atlantic was NOT CHEAP ).
--- --- ---
Ryan is still Alive]]
Ryan, when he talks to you ( Jack ) in his Office, basically spells out details which shows he knows ALOT about Jack and his trip to Rapture, and his being manipulated into an assassin. That string board in the ante room shows further evidence. Ryan has known for quite a while, So there is plenty of opportunity for Ryan to prepare for his 'scam' upon Fontaine. 
--- --- ---
Push it in the Players face]] : 
 
Actually if you rewatch that WYK 'reveal' sequence, the "Would You Kindly" thing used on JACK in the game is PUSHED INTO YOUR FACE - As if the writers did not think you could get the idea by presenting just a tenth of their little reveal show - It is spelt out repeatedly, so that it couldn't possibly NOT BE GOT by every village idiot ( AND his dog ). Ryan himself says it and might as well say "YOU LISTENING TO THIS BOY ? 'WOULD ... YOU ... KINDLY controls you. " Perhaps they thought most Players are just Rambo'ing through, and wouldn't even notice.
--- --- ---
DA analysis]]
Title?
Eleanor : "Mother has destroyed Doctor Alexander... She tried to Splice him into some kind of living saint who would calculate the common good and adhere to it tirelessly. But now he's become... something unspeakable. Mother's philosophy is just as corrupt as Ryan's. By her standards, it would be better to have the entire world equally miserable then to allow us to strive in our own behalf."
Dr. Sofía Lamb, had convinced Gilbert Alexander to 'splice like crazy' and go through the same mental conditioning as Jack to create her 'utopian', only for it to go horribly wrong, and then abandoning Gil in this horrible crazy state, while still thinking that this 'Utopian' project of hers will work on her daughter, and so was forcing Eleanor to go through a similar treatment in the search of this 'Utopian', which would leader for her Collective Society. 
Delta ! You are a monster ! And a horrible father ! Staying with me is the best for Eleanor ! >:( 
The Player ): -_- "Man and I thought Suchong was the crazy immoral bastard with a PhD, and a lack of self-awesomeness."
No but seriously, what Sofia Lamb did to Gil is one of the many reasons why some people hate her more than Comstock.
--- --- ---
BaS Elizabeth :
Helping the sociopath Atlas for what ? Why ? It saves Sally ? 
She couldn't see what Atlas (Fontaine) was ? Didn't Care ? She causes the death of many thousands in Rapture by helping him. She didnt see that ? (She saw Jack's future - somehow ....) 
Perhaps with Elizabeth now guzzling alot of ADAM, she is quickly becoming insane, and really just seeing only what she wants to see.
-
Simpler : "Mr Ryan, I will tell you where Fontaine is (Yes, he is now Atlas). and I just want one of the Little Sisters - one named Sally in payment ..."
--- --- ---
Real World]]
Prisons where prisoners Worked - manufacturing in 'The Big House' ( consider the cliche of 'stamping licence plates' ... ) Prisons Real World were made to pay for themselves as much as possible.
That IS 'the way things were' in the Era of Rapture.
The writers wanting to get 'outrage' from the ignorant/modern_thinking Players - Along with Medical Experimentation "medical experimentation" - As if it was Dr Mengele at work ( volunteer ), and Prison Cells with bars. (( OMG !!! Derrrp !!! ))
--- --- ---
Game Material Sources]] < new page or is there one like this ??
put lotsa other links here too
Lots of good material to build game Assets from :
http://www.bing.com/images/search? q=Columbian+Exposition+of+1893
Also interesting :
http://www.ust.ucla.edu/ustweb/Projects/columbian_expo.htm
--- --- ---
Money/Economics]]
Wealth Brought to Rapture :
Ryan would invest everything he owned ( and sold his Surface Holdings off slowly to maximize extracting the total value as Rapture was built over half a decade 1946-1952. Some business assets were utilized IN the Construction effort, so had to be kept til the end. 
To have enough money, Ryan would need to convince a number of other wealth people to do the same ( possibly those well exceeding his own investments ). Longterm, their Surface Holdings would be managed to preserve the value.
All the other immigrants would want to do likewise. Most would also be bringing their possessions - personal and business. Many people would have little to bring except their skills. The Workers who built Rapture ( the ones intending to live there ) could be partially paid with ownership in what they built ( so cutting some cuty construction expenses significantly - 'labor' which often is one of the biggest expenses of such projects ). It would Cut the workers expenses while living in Rapture significantly also.
All immigrants would have their Surface 'investments' converted to Ryan Dollars in Rapture. ( Goods brought to Rapture for commercial activity would also be bought 'up above'. )
Depending on how that money was 'backed' : If the Rapture money was backed by specie ( ie- precious metals ) THAT would have to be purchased also.
--- --- ---
Illogic]]
Writers Convenience :
Vaguely making Ryan an Autocrat ( One Man Rule ), coupled with a 'No Law' simplistic society - SUPPOSEDLY which an isolated city could exist under.
The writers were schitzophrenic with Ryan when convenient to their story : HIS Doing TOO LITTLE, and at other times TOO MUCH. At the same time Vague about details which might explian.
--- --- ---
Infinite Illogic ]]
Cosmologically Impure ....
The inconsistencies of the story logic of Infinite BS and its BaSx DLC.
--- --- ---
Sustainable Materials :
Ex - Straw Hats in Rapture ( as seen on gun-totin Bread Winners ???? )
Straw ( primary material ) produced thru agriculture...
Easier to grow than similar woven plant materials like rattan ( used for wicker ).
--- --- ---
Q&A]]
Q : Can a City Below The Sea be Built ? 
A : The technology existed in WW2 to go at least 600 feet down in submarines. Construction methods existing at that time to build buildings solid enough to withstand the pressure of similar depths.
A : Build at extreme extra expense ... ( the deeper it is, the greater the expense ). The money to pay for building it would have to exist.
Q : Can a City Below The Sea Sustain Itself ?
A: There is an array of Long-Term supplies which would be continulously required - Many things which are unavailable locally. Something of value would have to be exchanged for what has to be obtained elsewhere. 
A : A full blown ( real ) City has connections outside of itself to support it. So the transport connecting it to outside materials and manufacturing/industry elsewhere needed to sustain it must exist.
Q : How could an Underwater City generate trade with the Surface ?
A : Commercial Viability to pay for operating itself : not likely. Underwater is only a gimmick, which does not really enhance any productivity (which is nullified by the magnitudes of over-expense). This is as compared to cities/sources on land which the Underwater City has to try to compete with.
A : What things/materials could the Ocean provide which is not already available on the Surface which the Underwater city might produce ? Not much. To sell to the surface - not much the city made could compete.
A : Thus some other source of money would be needed to Sustain such a City.
Q : How then did Rapture ?
A : Rapture is barely a city in population (it is small). Stockpiles (pre-paid) might be possible for long-term materials. Rapture might Recycle alot. Rapture potentially had Science and Engineering breakthroughs which it might sell in exchange for surface Trade ( ex- ADAM medical pharmaceuticals). 
A : Rapture IS Fictional. 
---
Q : Is there any chance that we will see Columbia again in further games ? With all of Suchong's Burial At Sea Audio Diaries, he talked about Fink stealing his idea on Plasmids, the creation of Songbird and Elizabeth appearing and disappearing, I'm just curious that in some point we will get to see Columbia again.
A : It is all 'Open Ended'... In that whacky Post-Infinite game universe, you can bring back anyone you want. Ex- Why not have yet another Comstock come thru a Tear with SS Stormtroopers to seize Elizabeth ( still 'his child' ) and take her back to Columbia (a Cherman Kolumbianen), then with various quantum tesla magics, reprogram her to 'the Angel of World Destruction' that Comstock's prophecy declared previously. "A Man, a City, a Lighthouse, some ADAM, and a Prophesy" ...
--- --- ---
Q : WHEN are Big Daddies first created/use by Andrew Ryan to carry out maintenance on the city ?
A : Sometime affter ADAM was discovered and Fontaine started experimenting on people. - They should have been around sometime after that - Employed as Maintenance Cyborgs ( or rather some other term, as BD name was coined for LS bond development ). Replacing human divers in complex deep diving suits. Requiring Special Plasmids/Tonics for pressure in what are basically canvas diving suits. More created later as a way to employ those who were driven criminally insane by ADAM abuse - rather than have them warehoused at public expense - at least that being the public story told by Fontaine Futuristics. Modified/Created as 'Protectors' ~1959 is more evidence specified in-game ( later than LS is more logical ). 
--- --- ---
Vague]]
Vagueness Makes It Easy To Manipulate Players :
Misunderstanding by A Pleyer :
> Ryan kidnaps children and pumps them full of drugs
Fontaine was the one who did that ( and imbedding slugs into the children ), and Ryan inherrited them. Ryan was in charge of Fontaine Futuristics for less than 3 1/2 months before Atlas started his Terrorist Campaign which threw Rapture into Chaos and everything in Rapture was disrupted. 
> Ryan bans immigration and religion
BS2 shows Ryan didn't ban "religion", and he 'cut off the city' for its safety in the dangerous Cold War World which on discovery would have ended Rapturites' freedoms - if not existence. Much which you get in the game is simple vagueness ( lacking more specific details ).
> Ryan has alot of shallow slogans 
Fontaine was the parasite, which Ryan ( the builder ) spoke of. Atlas instigates murder and mayhem - Atlas is not out to counter Ryan's 'slogans', but to grab what he wants the way sociopath criminals do. BTW, Ryan's slogans weren't shallow. They were the same ideas that built America and were under attack by the growing socialism which he sought to leave behind on The Surface. 
>Atlas was for the People, and would give them a social safetynet.
You should look at BS2 if you want a Collectivist in opposition to Ryan's philosophy. Sofia Lamb's philosophy has problems too because Sofia Lamb was batshit crazy in her delusions about changing human nature.
>no political agitation or debate amongst the lower classes
You might want to review the game again.
The games major problem was the writers had to vilify Ryan to get the Players to not question why they are doing the bidding of the game's villain, and will be used to assassinating Ryan. They shovel it on thick. This was done so they could have their reveal ( plot Twist ). The writers have Ryan do things that are too illogical in the backstory and events staging into their 'plot', and they block fundamental things which exist in Objectivism - things which 'got in the way' of their story.
--- --- ---
Illogic]]
But Ruined 'Dystopia !!!', and Slaughter-Fest player activities, AND a WYK gambit ( which made All those complex Imperial Japanese Naval Battle Plans seem simple by comparison ) -- That was what the 'writers' in the end delivered.
--- --- ---
BS3]] ??
IDEA : A Continuation (next game) :
For "Good" Ending :
Without Ryan to direct the Pheromone Control ( and Sofia Lamb emerging to cause her 'fun times' ), Jack now has to get all his herd of Little Sisters past the ADAM hungry insane Splicer addicts to whatever exit strategy gets them out of Rapture and back to the Real World. Twist ending is them 'Ending Up in Area 51. ( or Floating to the "Secret Nazi Arctic Base" )
For "Bad" Ending 
Super-powered Jack ( with his supply of unsaved ADAM LS ) becomes some strange Ruler of Antarctica (or closer : some Arctic place - some Ex-Nazi Secret Base ... ) Twist ending is : Evil is rewarded with being Nuked when he 'Threatens the World' ... ( Jack has become Super Surfer guy like Fontaine had ?? )
In either case, Rapture Continues ( for the next game )
Possible convenient occurance ?? : Fontaine is not dead ....
--- --- ---
BioShock Illogic (BS1) ]]
Ryan's city was run much like what used to exist in America ( alot even remaining AFTER Wilsonian and Rooseveltine socialism being imposed on the country ).
Of course, to the majority of modern players who don't know about that, it had to be presented 'writer sabotaged' - with severe omissions of the societal checks and balances existing in those before times ( and in Objectivism ). 
The Priority WAS - plenty of things to shoot at in the contrived dystopic setting, and a caricature enemy 'evil meanie' who of course 'caused all this'. A romanticized anarchist is offered up as your 'pal' guide.
--- --- ---
BS3]]
 
Porter is in Area 51, and this game's story 'in the end' is all in his head ( Now they can do anything they want - dreamscape - no faux-science Infinitisms )
***Hey*** now that 'London ' rumor thing makes sense .... 
Though London beneath the Ice might be stupid ( but easily copied game assets).
The Minervas Den DLC game's timing was simultaneous with BS1 ( Tenenbaum's first escape ) so the time frame for this one is ~1960 on.
--- --- ---
Secrecy]] Isolation]]
Exposed :
What happens when Rapture was exposed to the Surface goverment(s) ? 
Ever hear of something called "The Cold War" ? 
It might not be that the US government wants to take Rapture for themselves ( the technology probably would be a reason ) but to keep it from falling into the hands of the other side. Other governments would possibly also want it, as might various criminal groups and even certain industrialists, who could see the ADAM thing as their future super-fortune. There is very good reason why Andrew Ryan doesn't want contact with the surface which will bring the Surface 'parasites' to Rapture.
---
Exposure of What Rapture Had :
Like about Plasmids and Gene Tonics ? And soon leading to the US (or whoever) ruling the whole World ? 
ADAM would be one thing that would also bring MONEY into it. 
In the Cold War, just having something there that is not understood ( a shadowy potential threat / risk ) would be enough for the USA or USSR to come poking around.
The disappearances of ships/planes/etc... might bring a criminal investigation ( insurance companies involved ... great ), and of employing military assets, seen as a potential Act of War ...
Imagine investigative news reporters looking for a 'big story' getting involved as well.
Jacques Cousteau tries to horn in on the action.... Hollywood.... all kinds of things are possible.
--- --- ---
NOT BIOSHOCK]]
"There is always a Lighthouse"
 
Another thing shoved in to make believe 'BioShock'
--- --- ---
Ryan Amusements]]
That Sputnik Rocket/Satelite in Orbit - Ryan using in the Propaganda 
What about early propaganda at Ryan Amusements ( including in "Journey to the Surface" ) - it would be a later addition/revision ( since that was supposed to have been originally built around time Sofia Lamb arrived ). 
With children growing up they need to be convinced about The Surface... NEW THREAT - An A-Bomb soon ready to drop on America ...
--- --- ---
Columbia as an Ark rather than an Eden 
--- --- ---
Choice]]
An Actual Do The Right Thing (Game Morality System) :
>If the game really punished you for rescuing them
The designers and higher ups in parent company KNEW which way ***so many*** Players 'would jump' -- IF they were NOT getting all the neat ADAM goodies by 'Saving' ??? - so many would say : then "NO SAVE, JOSE" ... 
The company would then face BAD PR about encouraging Murdering Children ...
For those being good - Far Les ADAM - a big component of the game (Plasmid Powers) being nullified - a fundamental aspect of the game.
--- --- ---
Delta]]
Q : How did Subject Delta get Free Will ? 
A : Does Delta have 'Free Will' ? 
OR is he just programmed by Eleanor to 'come save her' ?? 
The game compels you to move forward in that task ( or you can just stay in one place and kill respawning Splicers forever ... )
( Possible also degrees of Free Will - might Alphas/Big Daddies do their 'own thing' in their free time ? )
Idea : Eleanor controlled Little Sisters to do her bidding ( like do alot of the work assembling Delta ), SO is all that Delta does pretty much the same ? The game implied a mind link (the visions Eleanor sends to Delta), and even Delta himself takes over a Little Sister in that part of the game in the Little Sister : Crazy Dollhouse.
--- --- --- 
Daddy a Cyborg]]
Q : Big Daddy Cyborg ?
A : Yes - Part machine, Part human.
Q : Which begs the question for Porter to be undone ( Un-Daddified ) in Minervas Den - How does that work ??
A : ADAM was first used in medical therapies ( Regeneraton with persons own DNA), so regenerating 'ungrafted' tissue is possible with that. The process for reverting Porter would not likely be fast, and no doubt would require ALOT of ADAM.
Q : In BS1 we have Jack and his suit - Him getting partial "Daddy" mods ? - How did that work if a normal Big Daddy has more changes made to work those standard Daddy suits ?
A : What Jack wore was just the outer shell (when there would have been alot more mechanics/mechanisms/systems than that for a Real Big Daddy. The big tanks would be empty. Still, it might have been good (logical) if Jack had to take a Strength Tonic to wear all that stuff. 
--- --- ---
Q : How the hell is Infinite connected to BioShock 1 - 2 and Rapture itself ?? 
A : Very Tenuously ( and mostly retroactively ) 
They needed the BioShock game elements to be able to label/name it "BioShock" ( for the branding to sell it ). Unfortunately, an awful lot of things were not explained as to how the equivalent of the BioShock ADAM-based (genetic) Plasmids/Tonic ( for Special Powers ) existed in Columbia. 'Looked through Tears' retrofitted AFTER Infinite BS (in the BaS DLC) was used as a blanket excuse.
--- --- ---
Zombies]]
Zombies Under the Ocean ... Anti-social violent murderous 
Have some character comment on "Fontaines Zombie Juice" ...
--- --- ---
Religion in Columbia/Infinte]]
Commentary :
I was the Bioshock Infinite artist who threatened to quit unless Levine changed his game. Here's what happened. : 
Many of you probably read this article: https://www.pcgamer.com/bioshock-infinite-artist-almost-resigned-over-antagonists-religious-views/ and yes, that ever so offended artist was me. I remember when Levine scrapped the democratic aspect of the original Infinite and had us go for a theocratic based story. I was absolutely shocked on what the writers had in stock for the final rewrite. Some parts that never made the cut included: 1. A child burning himself on a ship ( which was changed to a grown woman ). 2. Christians quoting bible verses defending their decision to lynch a couple of black men ( the racial aspect thought-out Infinite was supposed to be more realistic and dark ). 3. A cult attempting to murder Elizabeth for being accused of witchcraft.
None of these in particular offended me as they were inspired by real events in history. What really striked the nerve was the ending scene involving Comstock. Here's briefly how the scene would've played out : Elizabeth confronts Comstock accusing him of twisting the words of the Bible to fit his selfish, racist worldview. Comstock explains to her how Columbia was shaped by "natural law" and thus is not fundamentally oppose to the divine. Elizabeth opens a tear which shocks Booker and Comstock alike. A brown-skinned man with a Jewish-like face being crucified by white people. Yes, this was supposed to be the real Jesus Christ meeting his fate by the Romans. Comstock falls on to his knees after realizing Jesus was not the blue-eyed white man everyone assumed at the time. He screams "Lord, why hath you forsaken us ! Wait, no ! It can't be ! This is satan blinding me from perceiving the truth !" Comstock grabs a knife, runs towards Jesus and screams "I DEFY YOU FALSE PROPHET !!!" Booker quickly grabs him and starts slamming his head against the fountain yelling, "This is your savior you son of a bitch, and you abandoned his teachings !" Things proceed similar to the initial release.
Yes, tears would've been able to open time portals as well. That about sums it all up. I'm personally glad we got the current story rather than that atrocious pre-alpha concept. And I'm sure you are too now that you know the long hidden secret behind it all. Thank you for reading.
--
My Reply:
Of course, to be more true, the Romans there weren't 'white' either - They largely included legionnaires recruited from that province. And the officers, if 'Italian', would not be particularly 'white' ( as Comstock saw them ) either. Likewise with Israel being one of the historically most invaded/army-tromped-thru places on Earth, the population wouldn't be quite cliche 'jewish' looking.
I can see why that last propsed 'Boss encounter' was cut/abandoned as its far too daring/controvercial for Levine ( the guy who said he was gonna push the envelope in this game ...)
I was offended by the game writing representing Columbia's weird non-christian/pseudo-christian cultism ( ex- Of the US's Founding Fathers -- it being beyond idolatrous ) as somehow being American typical/mainstream/blameable as the writers insisted.
And that somehow was employed for Comstock's revival-tent 'road to power' ( when his 'brand' would be anathema to the vast majority of Christians in America - and the politicians he supposedly swayed would fully understand THAT and avoid being associated with Comstock and his bizarre 'religion' ).
I suppose its a ready made alibi for Levine : "See its not REALLY Christianity I'm denouncing/smearing in the game" ...
Didn't Levine, in some interview, admit he "knew little about religion" ?? 
He apparently knows little about History then too, or just didn't care about the BS being put in the game.
I wont even go into the sad idea of some Creation of a quantum pinky goddess needed to drive the game plot.
--- --- ---
Poole]]
DO you think that Sofia lies when she says she won't do anything to Stanley ? 
( MMORPG Flashback - Later you hear an appeal to Eleanor : "See what Mommy has done to the evil little man that hurt you... Now PLEASE come to Mommy who loves you ...". Scene of Poole being disemboweled by 'The Rapture Family' Splicers. )
--- --- ---
Jack]]
Jack's Game Context :
Jack was basically a blank slate anyway - wholly artificial. He couldn't indicate much to the Player ( even passively ), or it might have given away the plot 'Twist' situation ( including the fact HE WAS a 'blank slate' - Jack: "Uh, who am I ? Where's Aunty Jo? What the heck is happening ? What is this weird place ? Are those people on the Plane Dead ? Should i trust this Atlas guy? This place looks familiar ..." etc ...).
Jack doesn't talk. It simplified the gamemaker effort/work for Jack ( apparently BS1 was rushed as much as Infinite was - after redesign issues ). Vague backstory is used to imply WHO the players character is.
Simpler Jack makes it simpler for WYK to work ( when normal people might be far more difficult ).
Lack of the 'emotion' also can be seen by the Players as being normal/expected in a typical game - talking avatars usually are too clumsily done.
Many games, with a game's limitations, don't include/expose alot of avatar character details ( enough trouble creating what is actually IN the game in front of the Player ). 
Character is Generic, so that the Player can fill in to match themselves ... ( not have it spelled out like it was with talkative Booker ... )
You DONT hear Jack talk ( or think to himself ), so it is very hard to judge what kind of mind Jack has. Likewise, you have limited opportunities in the activities available in the game to exhibit how complex the mental processes for Jack are.
--- --- ---
Perceptions]]
Formation of Jack's Mind ( Idea as to why the Player sees what they do? )
Relative Perception of Reality in a game :
We are a 4 year old fast-grown mutant with a LIMITED artificially conditioned mind, and what WE ( as Jack ) see is from THAT perspective. That is part part of the Lore/Canon.
Jack can only be part of a person. He doesnt have real Life Experience - only what a limited conditioning system could stuff into his mind in less than 2 years. ( Even with miracle ADAM brain/learning enhancers ... )
Expecting any full understanding of reality ? From the above viewpoint - it is obviously limited.
THIS also is what the Player could have when seeing through Jack's Eyes ( if they cared to do that effect ).
-
Perceive Reality is what ? Example : You are shown a room full of things ( say a bunch of complicated machines ) you never saw before and you 'perceive' them as there, but maybe dont understand what they are or what they do. A childs mind perceivesthe presence, perhaps about something similar seen before, but there are so many things they might not understand. 
Jack murders a whole planeload of people before we arrive and we see no impact on him of such a horrendous act. ( Did Jack have Live Ammo training against some unfortunate 'Splicers' in his training ??? ) Did he have the instinctual aversion to blood and gore 'conditioned out of him' ?
Building an Adult's mind - the product of 18 years experience - That experience is supposedly crammed into some battery of films that Jack gets shown by Suchong ? Wouldn't that be like YOU learning to think/understand The World by watching nothing but Beavis and Butthead cartoons ?
--- --- ---
Conditioning via Watching Cartoons :
That was a attempt at a funny analogy - something representing LIMITED images, and other inputs, being stuffed into the brain to try to build proper correlating/relational information to form the mental patterns - cognitions/motivations/reactions/etc... ( mental/mind formation is magnitudes more complicated than the physical ( ex- muscle memory/coordination ) that must be formed in the brain ).
The key word ( as relating to Beavis and Butthead ) is ***LIMITED*** 
What all would really be required to be pushed into a human brain to even have a simplistic operating 'person' ??? ( Even just that of a real 2 year old. ) Think about how much you learn in your first 18 years of life of personhood. Some good fraction of that ALL would be required to be placed to be able to think as the writers are proposing that Jack could be. 
I'm implying such conditioningt being done is 'a Tall Order' ( as in problematically difficult ) to artificially speed it up so to produce a Jack that has ANY resemblance to the mind of a normal person. Its also NEW and Experimental - which could make it severely flawed.
-
BTW The "Cartoon" thing WOULD be likely, as Suchong does NOT have the Time nor the Budget for a huge mass of Better 'Production Values' for the neccessary conditioning/teaching lessons. Much would have to be done manually - leading Lil Jack through the motions - reactions to the likely situations. That is something the MMORPG could explore (like wise LS and BD conditioning processes).
Cartoons have the ability to be repeatedly applied. Films of live-action likewise would be used to generate 'repeatable' conditioning stimulous. "A Clockwork Orange" movie scene stuff is a interesting example of only a single/simple conditioning being created - whereas Jack would need hundreds. 
--- --- ---
Jack]]
Jack Able to Think ? Know Things ? : 
Fontaine would most certainly have him trained for his primary (assassin) task as the priority.
Gun practice, plane flying, crashing, celestial navigation(?), etc ...
Add Walking and Eating and other Basic Skills needed to keep him alive and to act human.
Beyond that, Normal Human personality is a huge load of stuff, which if they try to stuff it into his head may disrupt the important 'mission' stuff ( or worse, if botched, drive him insane ).
This is all just speculating, but the game itself offers only vague stuff to explain most of it (( Probably for the best, when you look at 'science' in Infinite BS )).
--- --- ---
Make ADAM more Sci-Fi]]
Sinclair and Fontaine would ( if anyone ) understand what a scam the whole ADAM powers thing is. Ryan would too but if the effect is there to 'Move humans Forward' ...
I don't say the effects are not REAL ( enuf ), they are NOT all simply some illusion. But HOW the real ( or similar )effects are done is a matter of Perception. It is all being seen ( BY US AS THE AVATAR IN THE GAME ) through the eyes of an ADAM User ( something proven to induce mental problesm/change ).
Why should DNA changes release ancient psionic powers in the brain ( why not do that with medical Elctroshock or whatever to get at the existing 'Un-used Powers' in the human brain ? ). Key to unlock such powers - via magic potions (changing DNA) which have enough trouble shifting physiological changes (versus 8 magnitude more complex brain operations ). Activating the X gland in the brain or somesuch ... ( Normal Physics still gets in the way for so much of those Fantasy Powers ...)
Again ( Booker/Elizabeth - thug and dimension god ) are in Infinite BS and its RetCon DLC which had things even more absurd fantasy cause by 'Quantumz'.
-
For the game story : Does it really matter how the Plasmids actually work or just that you CAN use them and they have the desired effect ? It is actually more clever to figure out a workable physiological mechanism instead of 'Oh it is just game magic DNA'. Not that they need to explain it - either way being too explainey gets away from the story which is about People ( like all good sci-fi, it is about how the tech affects people/society ). BUT it could be HINTED, and that would be enough for people to look further if they wish to.
--- --- ---
BS3]]
Q : Should they set Bioshock 4 in Rapture, but as an Open World game, set during the Golden Times of Rapture, when it wasn't a shit hole?
A : Open-World = 'Open-ended' which requires alot more work if it is not to be overly repetitive.
Will they have the budget to do that ? Can you 'mass vary' good outdoors terrain like they did in games like FarCry to then place the unique story bits. Perhaps if they could innovate with Procedural Generation to fill in a bulk Rapture city terrain with enough variations ( Businesses, NPCs, Props ).
Unfortunately, the standard violence of the previous games can't really be there if it is in 'Golden Times'. ( That requires lots of NPCs doing normal activities - but you can't even shoot them or Raptures Police will have you put in Persephone ). The Players will expect violence to do.
There has to be some good Storyline that is very specifically made for it all to be the equivalent if the previous games. THAT unique/crafted content would have to be 2/3rds of what's developed for the game. How the story gets told in generic normal situations will have to be figured out.
The story could be the events from just before the Kashmir Attack ( short walkabout seeing 'golden' ). That Terrorist attack changes everything, and you live through the events as Rapture falls apart ( plenty of partisan fighting and scenes as well as an excuse for chunks of the city being inaccessible ). It all leads up to what is there before Jack arrives ( or maybe hearing about the BS1 events, but not being involved ). 
The new game would need some big enough terminating event ( posibly precipitated by Ryan's demise ), and maybe that could be your escape back to the Surface World ... BUT you get there, and by then YOU are a Splicer - and the 'Twist' is being sent to Area 51 ( no real escape for you ).
--- --- ---
commentary]]
Player Comment From Years Ago :
Infinite and its DLC were trying to be LIKE BioShock, cashing in on the branding. But the copying was done badly. It often did not make sense even if you exclude the whacky fake science and overcomplicated game cosmology.
They should have stuck to a Steam Punk theme. They chould have ditched all those explainations of the problematic science fantasy. Instead, they could have concentrated on the People Story - Which is what more of the Story was supposed to have been about. That could have included building new game mechanics to fit that game world better, and to be as well done as they were in the previous games. 
Infinite and its DLC was half the game they should have been.
--- --- ---
Diary Analysis]]
Tenenbaum says 'repeated ADAM use' is needed to hold back deterioration and tht some addiction is involved.
Psychological vs Physiological addiction 
get Audio Diary
For Rapture Plasmids it is implied the power effect is not permanent. Jack/Delta/Sigma are not ADAM-users for more than a few days in-game - so the 'wearing off' may take longer in many cases ( but THEY also are not typical people either ).
Actually, it would be logical for Fontaine to originally have-them/make-them work that way (Wear Off) so he could sell more.
--- --- ---
what is this from/about ?]]
""Even in a utopia, someone has to clean up the mess. That's where I come in."
So Booker is now the A-Team ?? 
Private Investigators FIND the mess
A thug for hire/hitman 'cleans it up'. Even Sam Spade left it to the Police to handle the baddies he turned up.
--- --- ---
Alternates]] ??
What has Eleanor been upto since she went to The Surface ?? 
Tenenbaum may have heard news when she was up there ( after her 'Build another "Thinker" project to calculate the Cure' fell through ) 
about 'Johnny' ( Delta 2.0 ) breaking Eleanor out of Area 51
Such stories if created would need heavy vetting ( and a proper disclaimer )
--- --- ---
Symptom 
Brain Infection - probably due to immune reaction (and 'rare brain infection')
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