143401-was-wildstars-downfall-its-lack-of-subtlety

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Do any of you feel this way too?
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I would like to have an intelligent discussion about this very topic. Not about raiding attunements or anything like that. Also keep in mind that this discussion assumes that at least 75% of players are casuals which I think is true. Also this discussion assumes you agree that the launch in 2014 and subscription numbers thereafter eventually were a disappointment.  
I think the elephant in the room, and is something that is rarely talked about, is how in your face the game is, and how that did or did not contribute to the loss of subscriptions after the game was released. 
My argument is as follows: The whole style of the game is not subtle, and my argument is, when playing a game for hundreds of hours (which you do when playing an MMO) this type of style grows tiring. I can completely understand a game with a frantic pace if it is a nice, polished 40 hour or less RPG. But in Wildstar, everything is in your face. The UI is cluttered, cities are cluttered with objects and NPCs and icons everywhere. You can't really "relax" when playing this game. It is almost takes the place of a MOBA or online shooter in that if you are in the mood for that sort of thing, here you are.
 
I have always felt MMOs need to have relaxing, quiet time. After all, you are going to be here a long time. Sure, in Wildstar you can go to far off places where there are ocean waves and beautiful views, but you have to look for them. In am MMO they should already be around you. The music in Wildstar matches the obnoxious tone perfectly. In that it is loud, repetitive, bombastic and filled with crescendos. This is a growing trend in media and I hope it stops soon (see Interstellar). Composers seems to want to be in the forefront now. There is some beautiful music in this game such as the Vigilant Church theme which is by far a very impressive piece of work. But even that gets repetitious. The music does not need to be front and center. A good video game music composer should understand he should be doing background music, ambient, subtle. In Wildstar the music tries to become its own character,. Some will argue this is a good thing. I think it is a misstep which goes along with the rest of frantic design of the game.
 
I have talked to a lot of people about why they left Wildstar in 2014. Several guild members, close friends, online friends, forums, etc. Almost all of them agreed that the game is just too busy. It is an assault on the senses and is just too much. It is great when you’ve been away and come back to the game, but after about 2 or 3 weeks, you are done, and move on. The thing is, when talking about where Wildstar went wrong, this is almost never mentioned. Most say it was because the climate has changed and people don’t want hardcore with heavy attunements anymore. While this is a legitimate gripe, I feel that Wildstar's blatant lack of subtlety and full out assault on the senses is the number one culprit. It is more in the subconscious. Not all, but a lot of us like to log in to an MMO after a hard day’s work and do some questing and relax. It simply can't be done with this game, without burning out after a short while.
 
It's a shame too, the game is quite good. But it is just not for me.
 
In subtlety lies humility and greatness.
 
Do any of you feel this way too?
			
				
	Edited October 15, 2015 by DarkWombat	
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Once.
 
Two years ago.
 
Not anymore.
 
(Sorry, that's all the feedback I am apparently allowed to give with all your rules.)
 
Sorry you didn't enjoy yourself. May you find a game that makes you happy.
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I love the style of the game and I love how in your face and silly it is.  It's just a game having FUN.
 
I've quite WS 3 times - first time was before I hit 50, all my friends quit, and I just lost interest.  Second time was because WoD came out, third time was because the new wow tier hit :rolleyes:
 
Nothing about the game itself has made me not want to play.  The only issue I've ever had was the population and it being very very hard to get stuff done if you didn't know a bunch of people (I didn't and I sitll don't).  With F2P the game is alive and hoppin' again and I love it.	
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go to your housing plot and make your zen space the way you want.  you can adjust music, lighting, and surrounding.  feel overwhelmed?  Go work on your zen masterpiece.
 
getting real a moment, i have no clue what you are talking about.	
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I don't think it's a good idea to try and start a discussion by telling people what they can't talk about even when it regards your topic title.
 
Personally I only left Wildstar because my funds at the time didn't merit investment in a game that my friends weren't playing.  Now Wildstar is free and I'm having a good time with my friends now and...quite frankly it doesn't feel busy at all.
 
I don't know where you're getting that MMOs have to be "relaxing, quiet time" because a lot of the core elements of Wildstar, at a basic level, are standard to the genre.  Mayhaps if Wildstar feels too busy you're simply not playing a game casual enough for your interests?
 
And I don't mean casual as an antithesis of hardcore, i mean casual as in a lack of investment.  A game where you just kind of sit there and click things sometimes and you get a good job award now and again.  I...don't really know a specific game like that (People would say WoW, I guess?) but the kind of things that get people invested in stuff differs.  Sounds like you and the people you know want a more laid back experience and there's probably a lot of people playing Wildstar now that enjoy the action and excitement.
 
TL;DR EDIT EDITION: IT'S SUBJECTIIIIIIIIVE!!!! *SWEET GUITAR RIFF*
			
				
	Edited October 15, 2015 by Mumboejumboh	
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Operational definitions for the following terms:
 
- "casuals"
- "In your face" (i.e. NPC dialogue?)
 
 
On top of this, did you watch ANY of the trailers before playing? They display the style/art of the game. The cinematic in which the narrator SCREAMS, "HARDCORE"? This is the foundation of the game and if this truly has had any impact on subs then it means individuals didnt bother to investigate the game before purchase.	
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I don't think it's a good idea to try and start a discussion by telling people what they can't talk about even when it regards your topic title.
 
Personally I only left Wildstar because my funds at the time didn't merit investment in a game that my friends weren't playing.  Now Wildstar is free and I'm having a good time with my friends now and...quite frankly it doesn't feel busy at all.
 
I don't know where you're getting that MMOs have to be "relaxing, quiet time" because a lot of the core elements of Wildstar, at a basic level, are standard to the genre.  Mayhaps if Wildstar feels too busy you're simply not playing a game casual enough for your interests?
 
And I don't mean casual as an antithesis of hardcore, i mean casual as in a lack of investment.  A game where you just kind of sit there and click things sometimes and you get a good job award now and again.  I...don't really know a specific game like that (People would say WoW, I guess?) but the kind of things that get people invested in stuff differs.  Sounds like you and the people you know want a more laid back experience and there's probably a lot of people playing Wildstar now that enjoy the action and excitement.
 
TL;DR EDIT EDITION: IT'S SUBJECTIIIIIIIIVE!!!! *SWEET GUITAR RIFF*
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Yes absolutely this is a problem and I've heard it from other people as well. I heard it in beta and at launch and I still hear it. It's not the only problem of course, but it is a problem.
 
 
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Well, first off, I maintain that sub-loss was due to the time sink and "Vanilla WoW/Everquest" mentality. (40 mans, super grindy, gold or gtfo) once these things were fixed, the population stabilized. We'd already lost a metric ton of people at that point though, so here we are now.
 
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Operational definitions for the following terms:
 
- "casuals"
- "In your face" (i.e. NPC dialogue?)
 
 
On top of this, did you watch ANY of the trailers before playing? They display the style/art of the game. The cinematic in which the narrator SCREAMS, "HARDCORE"? This is the foundation of the game and if this truly has had any impact on subs then it means individuals didnt bother to investigate the game before purchase.
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Do any of you feel this way too?
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I've never grown tired of the game. It's intense, and I like it.
 
And when I want something more relaxing, I either do an expedition, join a dungeon with overgeared people, or I go play an alt (i.e. do things that I know very well and are easy).	
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			Haha it's 100% expected. This game wouldn't survive on pvE alone, it needs PvP as well. Who ever is in-charge clearly isn't a gamer, they're masochists who WANT to fail.	
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Well, first off, I maintain that sub-loss was due to the time sink and "Vanilla WoW/Everquest" mentality. (40 mans, super grindy, gold or gtfo) once these things were fixed, the population stabilized. We'd already lost a metric ton of people at that point though, so here we are now.
 
Anyway, on topic:
 
As far as the "in your face" thing. There was one moment when I first heard about the game. I heard about it on a WoW forum actually. The only reason I looked into it was because I thought the name "Wildstar" sounded weird. So I found the "What is Wildstar" video. I remember laughing. Thinking "Wow this looks silly" and being really turned off from the game.
 
I came back to it a few weeks after and watched the official cinematic trailer. THAT got me excited. So then I started watching a bunch more dev videos and live streams. I was suddenly excited to find out what the new races were (before they announced mordesh and chua) and the new classes (before they announced medic and engineer). Oh boy was I on that hype train.
 
So when I started playing I was never really bothered by the UI or the style. I loved the style actually. I had a breif moment early on where I didnt know if I would like it, but that changed with a few more videos so. Yeah. Definitely dont feel that way. I love everything wildstar. UI is not perfect but, it's not a deal breaker. It's highly customizable and the game actually lets you have addons. (if you've only played wow you dont realize how cool this actually is).
 
So, yeah, the style of the game is not a problem at all for me.	
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No need for sarcasim, I edited my post to be more open.
So the in your face style grew on you? Interesting.
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Oh to add!
 
I heard we're getting fishing at some point. I wouldnt mind that as a relaxing thing to do :D	
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Yes absolutely this is a problem and I've heard it from other people as well. I heard it in beta and at launch and I still hear it. It's not the only problem of course, but it is a problem.
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			If you want to chill, hang out at a housing plot.	
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I don't disagree that people dislike the style. But it's unfair to call it a problem. I don't particularly like "Korean styled" mmos. That doesn't mean those games should change, it just means they're not for me.
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Sorry.. gotta disagree.
 
I love how "alive" WildStar is.. partly because it's so different from some other styles.. the only thing I find isn't really "relaxing" about it.. is Dungeons/Adventures.. but, they're fun, and a good stress break anyway.. even if they're not 'fall asleep at the keyboard' relaxing.	
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I a member of quite a few gaming communities, I heard many reasons why people left there wasn't one singular explanation. 
 
Some didn't like the challenge, some didn't like the bugs, some didn't like Carbines mishandling of it, some didn't like the art style, some didn't like the combat, some didn't like the dead servers .... you get the point, lots of reasons.
 
I do, however, agree that it is a bit "busy" and active.
 
It is a game I enjoy but it isn't one i'll be able to play constantly for months on end.
 
As you said, I like to relax when I play MMO's. Wildstar keep me on the go and it does feel a bit tiring after a while.
 
That wasn't the reason I left last year. It's reason enough for me to take a break but not enough to stop playing. I left originally because my server was empty. Other games are coming out so i'll probably take a break before long but it's not because of how busy it is, it's because i've waited years for Fallout 4, No Man's Sky and Eternal Crusade.
			
				
	Edited October 15, 2015 by Gomly	
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