Report 1458

Report #1458
Skillset: Skill: Sleeping
 Org: Shadowdancers Status: Completed Mar 2016
Furies' Decision:
Solution 2 to get rid of need for coltsfoot. Will require masochism.
Problem: This report aims to address various issues related to Sleeping.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: DREAMWEAVE CONTROL - Dreamweave Control currently
 makes the Dreamweaver immune to all forms of sleep
 offense. Since we have removed perfect
 immunity(poisons trans skill, runic amulets,etc),
 apply the same change to Control. Change it instead
 to give a <100% chance to negate a sleep attack. Make
 it reliable but still allow for a chance to fail.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: DISCIPLINE INSOMNIA - Currently, it is very unwieldly
 for us to have to smoke coltsfoot to strip insomnia
 ourselves. Adding in a RELAX INSOMNIA command to the
 skill would definitely help streamline things. From
 an offensive viewpoint, people can just forget about
 keeping a coltsfoot pipe since it doesn't cure any
 affliction besides insomnia now. This makes forcing
 someone to smoke coltsfoot moot. This solution also
 aims to make insomnia stripping forceable again for
 sleep locks.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: CELESTIALISM - STIGMATA. Currently Celestines wake up
 from Stigmata damage. This turns the skill into a
 pseudo-metawake on top of the Metawake skill in
 Discipline. I suggest changing it such that
 Celestines do not wake up from Stigmata damage to
 address this.
Player Comments:
---[Siam on 2/23 @ 01:20 writes]:
If it is the consensus that these three points be addressed in different
reports, then I shall oblige.
---[Synkarin on 2/23 @ 01:22 writes]:
No Thank you to solution 2, Relax Insomnia is not needed. If for some reason we
go through with that solution, I'd like it to require bal/eq to do, or maybe
even require you to be masochistic
---[Lerad on 2/23 @ 01:25 writes]:
I'm not familiar enough with the specifics of dreamweaver stuff, but the
solutions seem reasonable to me. Not sure if there will be any other
considerations, but if there is the lack of objections, I'd support all three.
---[Tredian on 2/23 @ 01:30 writes]:
Solution 2 supported as a removal for coltsfoot. Solution 3 I would also support
because its the only mechanism that has sleeplockers disabling fae, which I
don't think they need given their many offensive/defensive routes and the
availability of less powerful generic anti-sleep. I would have to agree that no
class should ever have total immunity to another class's kill methods, and
Solution 1 making it similar to Institute anti-Aeon seems alright.
---[Raeri on 2/23 @ 02:47 writes]:
I don't really feel that we need to bring back sleeplocks. Opposed to Sol 1
(unless we're looking at giving percent chance for brumetower to fail too?). Sol
2 brings up an interesting point in that a dreamweaver can't force someone into
dreamrealm if they toss their pipe - maybe attach it onto one of the other
cures? As for Sol 3: Stigmata also currently breaks any channeled actions as
part of that, I could support it just not counting as 'damage taken' altogether.
---[Enyalida on 2/24 @ 23:44 writes]:
Any solution is fine. Once report 1360 introduces some new defensive utility to
dreamweavers, control won't be the only (very niche) defensive ability anyways.
---[Siam on 2/25 @ 01:21 writes]:
This report addresses Sleeping. Brumetower may be addressed in another report.
:)
---[Wobou on 2/26 @ 05:47 writes]:
I'm fine with all of these solutions. To me sol. 2 doesn't worry me because you
will still need the pooka for metawake. Perhaps we will have to revisit it if it
makes killing those without metawake too easy. I agree with Raeri that if sol. 3
is implemented that it should not count as damage taken for other things either.
---[Celina on 2/26 @ 23:25 writes]:
Opposed to the entire report. I don't understand the need for any of this. Why
are we trying to buff sleeplocks? It's a terrible mechanic in general, and
foundationally imbalanced due to how it locks out any counters once you are
successful.
---[Tredian on 2/27 @ 06:11 writes]:
I don't see how hate for the mechanic of sleeplock has to translate for
rejection of all proposals in here. Solution 2 just wants to translate SMOKE
COLTSFOOT to remove insomnia into RELAX INSOMNIA, and though it doesn't delete
anything fighters can do with that mechanic as it is mere conversion, it removes
need of coltsfoot pipe (which I thought was in line with overhaul goals).
Stigmata and control don't only make a person immune to a sleeplock, they make a
person immune to sleep itself. Sleep, on its own, is a valid way of delaying
curing/offense, which I believe should stay. You are correct in pointing out the
foundational imbalance of sleeplock, however, these solutions strengthen the
ability of just sleep without the lock by removing immunities which (in my
perspective) is a proper step to the removal of the need for the lock itself. We
could just delete sleeplocks for all I care, however, that would make some
classes difficult to enjoy for most and such the provision of alternatives
before removal is always preferred.
---[Synkarin on 2/27 @ 16:35 writes]:
This report really should have been 3 separate reports. I don't understand this
fascination with combining 3 things that are fundamentally different in one
report. I agree that sleep can be an important affliction, but inevitably,
anything that buffs sleep -also- buffs sleeplocks and thus sleeplocks need to be
considered. Control is limited to 1 tertiarty. One tertiary being immune to
sleeplocks isn't going to make/break anything. I don't see why we need to remove
coltsfoot pipes for insomnia. Making a relax insomnia command is fine as long as
it requires eq/bal just like smoking coltsfoot requires herb balance to be
effective. I don't understand why stigmata is being requested to being changed
here.
---[Shuyin on 3/1 @ 01:29 writes]:
Solution 1 only. The other parts of this report can be discussed in separate
reports.
---[Wobou on 3/22 @ 10:25 writes]:
I realized that I didn't articulate my support of solution 2 clearly before. I
would go insane if we had to keep an extra pipe just to remove insomnia. It
would be a bit odd to go through all of these changes for the overhaul and have
that be our final state. I fully support solution 2, it sounds like soon
solution 1 will not be relevant, and in my opinion solution 3 should not be
considered at all for the reasons that Synkarin stated. If the fates consider
all three solutions to this report then they will essentially be approving the
use future multi-faceted reports like this one in the future, because every
envoy wants to get the most out of their slot.