Report 1137

Report #1137
Skillset: Illusions Skill: Illusion
 Org: Spiritsingers Status: Completed May 2013
Furies' Decision:
We will remove the eq cost on illusions and implement a cooldown. It will affect
both classes.
Problem: Bards have always been prevented from using the Illusion skill in
combat due to it being an equilibrium consuming skill, plus halting bardic
combat in order to throw out an illusion can often interrupt or go against
momentum. Mages however have been able to capitalize on it with psionics due to
Psi balances being different from equilibrium.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Allow, for BARDS only, to cast illusions on a
 seperate (illusion balance) balance. Also change
 Illusion to be a targeted ability, ie. WEAVE ILLUSION
 <target> <illusion>.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Allow, for BARDS only, Illusions to require, but not
 consume equilibrium, but have a cooldown period. Also
 change Illusion to be a targeted ability, it. WEAVE
 ILLUSION <target> <illusion>.
Player Comments:
---[Enyalida on 4/8 @ 18:58 writes]:
I don't support this. Fewer illusions in combat is better than more illusions in
combat.
---[Celina on 4/9 @ 23:58 writes]:
Supported. Kind of weird bards have never been able to use illusions as
intended.
---[Shuyin on 4/10 @ 00:32 writes]:
I'd rather address the fact that this ability do not require to be targetted so
you can harass peopls without declaring
---[Asmodea on 4/10 @ 03:24 writes]:
I'd be happy with making the ILLUSION skill a targetted skill in order to
prevent Shuyin's points if that is something others would be happy with, since
you could still use IMPROVED as a roomwide illusion. Thoughts?
---[Eventru on 4/10 @ 03:35 writes]:
If we moved illusions to its own balance for both bards and mages, would this be
an untoward benefit to mages? It seems like it wouldn't be, insofar that
Psionics already allows this, and would only benefit their other, "weaker"
terts. Am I correct in that presumption? (On the idea we'd do it at all - I find
the premise nervous personally, but I'm still forming an opinion)
---[Asmodea on 4/10 @ 05:57 writes]:
I put down bards only because, at the moment the psionics users can use psionics
attacks AND illusions because psionics has its own balance leaving EQ free to
use for illusions. If we Made illusions also have its own balance, it would open
psionics users up to use another attack alongside their three psionics attacks
and eq attack, which I saw as too much. Where as bards would only be able to use
their one EQ attack alongside an illusion should it just be an illusion balance
for bards.
---[Rivius on 4/12 @ 13:32 writes]:
I was under the impression most EQ attacks do not work off channel balance and
that illusions are their own exception, working while off any balance. I don't
really see any issue with an illusion balance, so long as it's the same length
of time as the current equilibrium cost. That said, can we discuss a bit more if
bards really need illusions for their offense? I feel as if only telepathy
really -needs- it, of all skillsets in the game and am not entirely convinced
that bards need the ability to throw off curing an extra bit in tandem with
their offense. Bards can still use illusions, just that it's far more limited
than a mage can, but still useful in situations.
---[Celina on 4/12 @ 23:40 writes]:
Telepaths need illusions more than bards? That's a strange perspective. Mages
are much better off than bards (not to say bards are bad).
---[Rivius on 4/14 @ 00:11 writes]:
Well, a telepath is really not going to mindburst you without illusions. I'd say
of the two psionic tertiaries, telepathy requires more individual skill and
knowledge of curing nuances than telekinesis.
---[Celina on 4/14 @ 01:24 writes]:
I wasn't really discussing tk vs tp. You stated telepathy needs illusions to
function, but bards do not. Which is an odd statement and implies TP mages are
worse off than bards.
---[Shuyin on 4/16 @ 02:57 writes]:
Yeah, please make all illusion syntaxes targetted to avoid harassment through
Avechna.
---[Asmodea on 4/16 @ 04:53 writes]:
Solutions changed to reflect Envoy comments.
---[Zynna on 4/17 @ 22:45 writes]:
Strongly DISAGREE with forcing illusions to be targetted. Illusions are not
dramaturgy and removing the utility of the skill for story-telling/RP purposes
seems like overkill. Bards are supposed to be master storytellers/masters of the
stage. I could see adding an option to make it a targetted illusion in exchange
for no equi/balance consumption, so long as the regulation option still remains
for use outside of combat.
---[Shuyin on 4/18 @ 00:25 writes]:
How are you removing the utility of the skill for story-telling/RP purposes?
Because you have to declare? If you want to address a room, then is it really
too much of a hassle to fire the illusion to each person?
---[Zynna on 4/18 @ 19:35 writes]:
I do think it would be a hassle to fire an illusion at every single person,
especially if you are doing a large ceremony (such as guild advancement ritual,
order ritual, graduation for those who don't have spiffy mechanical guild
advancements built in yet, guild rite etc.) You can get quite a crowd and I
don't see the point in removing a pleasurable use of illusions when we don't
have a major problem with it today.
---[Asmodea on 4/19 @ 01:22 writes]:
You can still use IMPROVED for room wide storytelling if you want to. I was just
talking about the ILLUSION skill only to be targetted.
---[Kregarn on 5/1 @ 13:51 writes]:
As long as IMPROVED does not require needing to be targetted, I'm fine with
either 1 or 2, though they're essentially the same thing.
---[Llandros on 5/2 @ 20:22 writes]:
I've seen some really nice performances and ceremonies that were nicely accented
with illusions. But they were done with improved illusions so they could have
color and stuff. But I'm with Kregarn as long as improved illusions are left
open for artistic uses I don't object.
---[Rivius on 5/11 @ 00:49 writes]:
Targeted illusions might be a bit of a buff though, since they won't hit allies.
---[Wobou on 5/13 @ 13:13 writes]:
I like the idea of making illusioning on its own separate balance, more so to
support dreamweaving mages than anything. I dislike the idea of making it
targeted. Illusions have already been nerfed quite substantially with the
prevalence of affmessages such that very few things are going to work on a
competent system. This proposed change would further diminish the usefulness of
illusions as a solution to a problem I have not seen (the effective use of
illusions without declaring).
---[Rivius on 5/16 @ 00:52 writes]:
In reference to your earlier comment, Celina, I do believe Telepathy mages are
worse than bards. I have no hesitation in saying that. Telepathy has been
lacking for quite a while and the only time I've ever seen it be viable 1v1 was
in the old aeromancer demesne with miasma coupled with the use of very
intelligent illusions. Even then, if one was good enough to ignore them, he was
practically immune to the kill. Bards don't have that problem since their kill
method works on most, if not all people and has been working fine for years
without help from illusions. I still maintain giving a glamours bard illusions
in tandem with their offense doesn't really feel like a needed offensive buff.
As it is, the weave command isn't entirely useless to a bard, it just isn't
going to be used as mages use it now.
---[Synkarin on 5/20 @ 18:44 writes]:
I think this might have unintended consequences with mages, but what the hell,
lets try it
---[Neos on 5/23 @ 18:01 writes]:
I'm confused by the comments mentioning any changes for mages, due to the fact
that only illusions and dissolve can be done in conjunction with Psionics.
Overall, I'd rather Illusions be phased entirely out of combat. With smarter
systems, the latest change to gmcp in regards to players in your room and aff
messages, illusions are losing any viability. Pile on guild/skill checking on a
person in an illusion if you want and there's little illusions can do.