146723-wildstar-not-for-this-average-player-page-5

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After you have seen the fights enough, you begin to subconsciously learn what different kinds of telegraphs do, how they move and the patterns of them. When you reach this stage you can focus more on character movement and your abilities, and let your subconscious handle the telegraph and interrupt mechanics.
 
You will also be able to notice telegraphs in new encounters that you have not yet been in, such as: Spews, DoT spreaders, Droppable telegraphs etc etc and because you have seen them all before you will understand roughly what you need to do with them.	
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I love that people are arguing "completely retarded" = elitist... 
 
Not wanting the WORST players is not the same as demanding thr BEST players... maybe it's confusing for you, but an elitist expects the best, a normal person just expects you to take the steps to get there. 
 
Cupcake are you do bad you get booted from pve content too? Hahaha sounds like he hit a nerve	
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The other issue is that there's no reason to do the dungeons as you level. None, zero, squat, they're not crucial to the experience at all. Also, how many people are out there will full support gear while leveling? Not many. This is now a design issue as well. No weight is put on grouping up at all in the open world mostly (You hit 50 waaaaaaay before the 5+ things in Grimvault, Blighthaven and Defile). Expeditions while leveling, solo content. Adventures, like Dungeons present the problem of needing healers and tanks, but can be skipped over entirely...bad!
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I love that people are arguing "completely retarded" = elitist...
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As a returning player who just rolled a Medic with the intent to heal dungeons while leveling, I'd say Wildstar is designed to completely and totally discourage dungeons while leveling. The reason being that in order to have gear for dungeons, tanks and healers have to gimp themselves in every other aspect of the game. They have to choose support gear over assault gear and thus severely slow down their questing/solo gameplay. I was choosing support gear for a while and after realizing that I spend 90% of my time outside of dungeons, I gave up on gimpimg myself 90% of the time so I could heal other players 10% of the time. I'd honestly really REALLY love to heal dungeons as I'm leveling, but I feel like I'm penalized for wanting to play that way.
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Well, calling someone "completely retarded" because how they play a video game is at best mean spirited. I can certainly see how it would seem elitist for someone who is good at something to call someone who is bad at it "completely retarded".
 
I get your point (and they guy who originally said it), that people will moderate skills can do well, not just "elite" players, but the words chosen do sound pretty darn arrogant and undermine the point that was trying to be made.
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I 100% agree at the poor choice of words... I got what he meant but I'm not defending his choice of words - in defending the message he meant when he used it.
 
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Being slightly trolly (not at you man)... but... are we going to ban music because Ritard. (aka ritardando, meaning to slow tempo) is on sheet music? (was a band nerd joke back in the day)
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Fwiw, I'm a composer and a music nerd, and I didn't know such a instrument existed until one of my scores arrived and that was an instrument... it was an older instrument that'd been phased out/evolved and I can't remember what piece it was, it was a requiem - but I have printed scores of brahms, faure, dvorak, verdi, and ofcourse mozarts... 
 
On topic though, I don't mind helping a new player with a dungeon, but after 6-7 whipes on 1 boss, they clearly need to revisit some lower level content to practice	
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I bet you played the fagoti ;D
 
Band kids were messed up man... us chorus kids laughed at jokes our parents would laugh at, then band kids are giving helping hands on the bus to districts...
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I would have joined jazz band/band but our band director sucked... our chorus director was a god, 10 years being out of high school that mans cell is still on my phone. I was kinda skeptical of the band director so I went to audition for jazz band on guitar and he gave me the sheet music and it was like a chord chart, had an Ab 13th chord written. In, so I asked him for clarification... should I play an Ab major with an added 13th? Or play a 13th and omit whatever notes I want? And his response was "whatever it says, if you can read music then you'll know the fingering" .... .... .... fingering? I even told him, idk what to tell you, what's written is a 13th chord, incase you didn't know that's 7 notes (every diatonic note of a key funnily enough, so am I supposed to pick 3-4 random notes here? All 7 notes are technically on the table, just need to include the Ab somewhere?) And I told him there's only 6 strings on my guitar, so even if I were to somehow with only 4(5ish) fingers figure out a way to fret 6 of the notes(hurts thinking about it) I would have to sing the 7th note? And he's like "clearly your not ready for this" so I just smirked and was like okay buddy, lemme know if you need a theory tutor, I'm available afterschools. And that was pretty much the nail in the coffin for my interest in joining band haha.
 
Granted I was some what of an anomaly, but if a person who just picks music up knows the college textbook like the pope knows the bible maybe the school can find someone who atleast knows basic highscool level terminology
 
 
Orchestra teacher flipped out on me when I tried taking a guitar class because she had chord music and I was just site reading the melodies and she was like"if you're having trouble following along just ask... just because you know this song doesmt mean that you cant participate in the lesson... you've got to be able to read chord charts! I was like ummm... I'm just reading the music... "that's not what the music says, it's D D A D" and I just showed her the book and was like "the music's right there for the melody.. the chords are written above it" she was a little wonky after that, then next day me and another shredder were in the corner and he was showing me the arpeggios to glass prison(dream theater) and then she was praising us "were lucky to have such talented players in the room with us, you can learn alot from these players"
 
needless to say, you can't be a jerk and assume what you'd like about a student on the first day, act on it, then parade me around like a trophy the next day... I would have even tried orchestra the next semester despite her putting me off but I went to 2 orchestra concerts and it was pretty painful... the kids looked miserable and lethargic and I'm glad I dodged That, because the next 2 years was the same story...
 
 
Yay for education letting down the arts!	
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Yeah, I was in Marching Band,  Concert Band, Jazz band, Symphony Orchestra, Pit Orchestra. My senior year I was 1st chair Trombone in Dallas (pretty tough region actually) and missed All state by 1 chair because I played the piece in the original non-watered down format (up an octave in one section and the last note was a pedal tone) but I got a better scholarship than the 4 guys that beat me :P. And I was a part of a local wind ensemble that was kind of a feeder to the Dallas Wind Symphony, but these were mostly semi-proffesional part-time musicians, and I was the highschool kid playing with them :P
 
I do miss music though, and I think as soon as my son is of age to start learning, I will pick up Trombone again and teach him my ways :)	
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Back on topic:
 
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This is why Carbine is currently developing new content to drive (vectoring) a fresh 50 in that order. Brett Scheinert (lead designer) mentioned it on the Twitch live stream Enter the Cryo-Plex,11/13/2015 http://www.twitch.tv/wildstar/v/25595609 (around 35:00).
 
They are aware of this exact issue and are planning to address it in a future update.
 
EDIT: There's also a plan for giving Veteran players (those who have previously completed said content) a bonus for running it with a 'new' player.
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Yeah, we derailed for a second. Had to relive some memories :P
 
But yeah, I would be down for a mentoring program that maybe offered 2-3x the glory to run dungeons with newer people (basically still promoting glory farming but with a helpful twist). Not sure exactly how that would work, but there should be something to promote a culture of helping newbies. First thought, is how do you deem people new? And how could you prevent veterans from rolling an alt and taking advantage of this? Several questions, but something along these lines would probably help.	
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As a returning player who just rolled a Medic with the intent to heal dungeons while leveling, I'd say Wildstar is designed to completely and totally discourage dungeons while leveling. The reason being that in order to have gear for dungeons, tanks and healers have to gimp themselves in every other aspect of the game. They have to choose support gear over assault gear and thus severely slow down their questing/solo gameplay. I was choosing support gear for a while and after realizing that I spend 90% of my time outside of dungeons, I gave up on gimpimg myself 90% of the time so I could heal other players 10% of the time. I'd honestly really REALLY love to heal dungeons as I'm leveling, but I feel like I'm penalized for wanting to play that way.
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Gimping? Yea I suppose, but only a little bit tbh. Calling it "severely slow down" is too extreme. I collect both sets while leveling on all my characters, and I skip ahead in quests (ie: going to Wilderrun at level 32 etc). It's a pain in terms of bag space, but since I use the Gear addon, keeping track of upgrades is as swiftly as typing /gear #. Sometimes I chose support gear over an assault, depending on which is a bigger upgrade. I've made it to level 50 while using a level 8 gadget lol.
 
Tanking/healing normal dungeons also hasn't been an issue. Sure, wipes do happen (hello Shallos), but bosses still die and dungeons still get completed. Dungeons are also easier now, especially since most of the levelers are alts who already knew mechanics. Accidental trash adds are more difficult than bosses anyway. The hardest part is getting people to coordinate interrupts.  :lol:
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Back on topic:
 
 
I'm hoping any rewards/bonuses for veterans to bribe them to run with new players are just purely fluff/cosmetic things.  When you have people running dungeons purely for the (gameplay enhancing) rewards then it becomes more about speedrunning and draggong along newbies who have no clue and get no support/help whatsoever.
 
It would cause more harm than good.  It got so bad in TERA that they completely ripped it out and haven't revisited any kind of 'mentoring' system whatsoever.
I'd hate to see the same happen in WildStar.
 
So I do support getting tokens/achievements and cosmetic fluff.  I don't support gameplay enhancing rewards like runes, fragments, etc etc that speedrunners will abuse lowbies to obtain easier.
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"skip ahead in quests", "pain in terms of bag space", "use the Gear addon", "most levelers are alts"
 
There's a few problems there that as a developer would make me scream and few that would worry the crap out of me. It's doable, but everything you stated means the game isn't presenting it in a way that's intuitive and/or easy to understand. While they may be looking at addressing a couple of the issues, a few of those seem a bit more problematic.
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Nope, he said it will be more currency, bonus XP, those kind of rewards. Nothing game changing from what he described. I believe they have seen what that has done to other games.
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If the currency bonus is significant enough you can be sure people will be speedrunning their "mentoring runs" because having lots of in-game currency IS game changing. You can buy more runes, unlock more slots, reroll those slots, buy things on the AH, etcetera. On the ohter hand, if it's not significant then none of the target veterans will really bother with it.
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"skip ahead in quests", "pain in terms of bag space", "use the Gear addon", "most levelers are alts"
 
There's a few problems there that as a developer would make me scream and few that would worry the crap out of me. It's doable, but everything you stated means the game isn't presenting it in a way that's intuitive and/or easy to understand. While they may be looking at addressing a couple of the issues, a few of those seem a bit more problematic.
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If the currency bonus is significant enough you can be sure people will be speedrunning their "mentoring runs" because having lots of in-game currency IS game changing. You can buy more runes, unlock more slots, reroll those slots, buy things on the AH, etcetera. On the ohter hand, if it's not significant then none of the target veterans will really bother with it.
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Hence why I stated having things be cosmetic fluff only.  Decor items, housing stuff, etc.
You'll already be gaining renown for doing stuff in a group, so that should be rewarding enough.
 
One thing I liked with how Aion did mentoring was that even though there was a way to abuse it, it still provided pretty much fluff rewards that didn't severely impact the game.
Most people in Aion just used it to powerlevel their alts or other friends (or those RMT assholes using it...grr.....).
The Aion method granted 100% of XP and loot earned to those who were being mentored (lowbies) rather than to the person doing the mentoring (the higher levels).
The mentors got mentor-specific fluff rewards and it wasn't all that bad.  The big reason to bother was collecting unique titles that were handy to have (because titles give small stat boosts in Aion).
The biggest problem with that Aion method is that people just outlevel content so fast they don't even bother asking for or doing any of the 'seek a mentor' quests anymore.
 
Carbine has to start off very conservative with this and then see whether people bother to do it or are abusing it for easy renown, then adjust accordingly.
Considering that the higher level people doing the mentoring would usually be max level and already earning Elder Points for Elder Gems instead of XP, in addition to Renown, then that should be enough as far as rewards.
 
I'd say the best thing for the game now is to encourage and reward the nice people to help others, not to encourage the speedrunners and jerks from queueing up for easy X rewards.
 
Also, flip-off to Warhound.  Such toxicity, much bile, I recommend auto-booting anyone you get from that server when you queue up.  Get someone (anyone) from Entity-1 or Entity-2 instead.
Then people wonder why Warhound is less populated.  Gee...I guess there are newbies that don't like being treated like dirt :P	
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Quick update on this, figured it deserved a brief spotlight.
 
Did a housing-exclusive expedition with friends.  The one where you insta-die if you try to engage the purple alien things because they keep respawning.
Group of five, I'm healing and another is the tank.  Only myself and the tank (engineer) in group are able to bother to read and understand what the NPC is telling us about the monsters and react accordingly so as not to die repeatedly.  Other 3 members keep dying repeatedly and blaming the game instead of their own failures.
 
I <3 them to death but sometimes I want to punch a few of them in the gut for the silly things they say.
I may be a cupcake but that doesn't mean I'm always soft ;)
 
'So the freeze gun didn't work on the big guy, just found that out'
-So reading or paying attention to the NPC calls is that difficult?  Especially when the call comes right after you get the item AND is available in the NPC Chat portion of the chat box if you miss it?
-So everything I said about 'avoid the big dude' is just ignored?  Then you complain about the game instead of failing to listen and understand what to do?
 
'wtf these mobs keep respawning why they immortal this sux'
-So the only thing you care about is killing stuff?  Why'd you bother to join my group?  Why'd you even bother if you completely ignored me telling the group ahead of time what to expect and that combat was to be avoided?
 
'wtf why no loot?'
-So it is ok to ignore what I stated explicitly about housing decor being the ONLY reward for the run?  Then you complain about it?
 
So my point in this is that even with the most simple dungeons with simple and easy to understand stuff with NPCs that pretty much hand-hold you on where to go and what to do, certain things still are beyond the understandings of many players.
 
And this started with WoW and continues to this day.  Accessability is awesome and the devs have done the best they can in many ways, but there's only so much they can do before turning WildStar into WoW Casual version 2.0 and ruining what makes it special.
 
Let's hope we can get some better mandatory tutorials going forward (once per account of course) that may help things a bit.  Maybe.
All this 'TLDR' mentality instead of people cracking open a book and READING for a change.  >_>
			
				
	Edited December 9, 2015 by FantasticCupcake	
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Quick update on this, figured it deserved a brief spotlight.
 
Did a housing-exclusive expedition with friends.  The one where you insta-die if you try to engage the purple alien things because they keep respawning.
Group of five, I'm healing and another is the tank.  Only myself and the tank (engineer) in group are able to bother to read and understand what the NPC is telling us about the monsters and react accordingly so as not to die repeatedly.  Other 3 members keep dying repeatedly and blaming the game instead of their own failures.
 
I <3 them to death but sometimes I want to punch a few of them in the gut for the silly things they say.
I may be a cupcake but that doesn't mean I'm always soft ;)
 
'So the freeze gun didn't work on the big guy, just found that out'
-So reading or paying attention to the NPC calls is that difficult?  Especially when the call comes right after you get the item AND is available in the NPC Chat portion of the chat box if you miss it?
-So everything I said about 'avoid the big dude' is just ignored?  Then you complain about the game instead of failing to listen and understand what to do?
 
'wtf these mobs keep respawning why they immortal this sux'
-So the only thing you care about is killing stuff?  Why'd you bother to join my group?  Why'd you even bother if you completely ignored me telling the group ahead of time what to expect and that combat was to be avoided?
 
'wtf why no loot?'
-So it is ok to ignore what I stated explicitly about housing decor being the ONLY reward for the run?  Then you complain about it?
 
So my point in this is that even with the most simple dungeons with simple and easy to understand stuff with NPCs that pretty much hand-hold you on where to go and what to do, certain things still are beyond the understandings of many players.
 
And this started with WoW and continues to this day.  Accessability is awesome and the devs have done the best they can in many ways, but there's only so much they can do before turning WildStar into WoW Casual version 2.0 and ruining what makes it special.
 
Let's hope we can get some better mandatory tutorials going forward (once per account of course) that may help things a bit.  Maybe.
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What i'm reading is "people are stupid and/or people don't pay attention to things"  Is that right?
 
Maybe they should take some responsibility?
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The MMO genre can't really evolve past the tab-target crap of WoW or the pre-WoW days until players can learn to take responsibility for their actions (and inactions) regarding performance.
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Well time to pack our bags and ship out then :P
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snip
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Be glad these people aren't playing SkyForge.  That game has no healers or reliable healing (outside of ultimate skills and untradeable consumables on long cooldowns).
If WildStar really wanted to be revolutionary, they could've gone for a similar approach to 'Support' being 'shield before a big skill' rather than 'heal up after it hits'.
Put far less reliance on one or two support in a group and make support something that everyone helps contribute to the fight.
 
But I believe Guild Wars 2 did that and their entire community either left the game or complained about lack of healers till they relented and put one in the game for the expansion pack release.
 
The MMO genre can't really evolve past the tab-target crap of WoW or the pre-WoW days until players can learn to take responsibility for their actions (and inactions) regarding performance.
 
This game needs more tutorials and a bit more hand-holding on HOW to do certain things like runing and such.  Too many unintuitive spots in the game design.
 
A game can have massive depth without tons of complexity.  Chess is a great example of 'easy to play yet difficult to master' and each piece has a role but no ONE piece is always better than everything all the time.  Even the lowly pawns serve their purpose (cannon fodder) at one point or another.
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Oh I agree completely. Being in my mid 30's it just feels like it's moved into this weird situation where people are allergic to taking blame. Honestly I love being wrong. I love making mistakes. I love it because mistakes are how you learn to better yourself. It just seems like a pattern these days where everyone believes they are already the best. If you believe you are the best then you'll stunt your growth. Simple mechanics that require attention immediately become impossible walls because "I'm the best, so if I can't do it on the first try then something is wrong with the content and not with my approach to it". Of course I'm not targeting anyone here, it's just been a general observation I've seen over the past years.
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			I can count on one hand the number of times I've been griefed in this game when I've owned up to my mistakes, and I've been in a lot of pug groups. I surely was griefed more in WoW.	
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Ok Carbine.  Here's your challenge:
Please give players more tools to moderate their groups easier/better without relying on voting for everything.
 
-Let us 'queue as leader' with a checkbox option
-Let leaders kick someone without needing votes
-Let leaders 'mute' someone from any channel that isn't guild/circle until the person leaves group or is kicked
-Keep vote disband as-is
 
And even better:
 
-Increased Glory reward for content that takes more time (Veteran Protostar in particular)
-Increase deserter debuff to 1 hour cooldown instead of 15 mins
-Vote disband = deserter debuff for everyone
-Leave group = deserter debuff for that person
-Kicked = no deserter debuff
			
				
	Edited December 9, 2015 by FantasticCupcake	
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			What are these changes suppose to fix? because they are all pretty shit if you are trying to change the behavior in PUG's	
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But I believe Guild Wars 2 did that and their entire community either left the game or complained about lack of healers till they relented and put one in the game for the expansion pack release.
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Ok Carbine.  Here's your challenge:
Please give players more tools to moderate their groups easier/better without relying on voting for everything.
 
-Let us 'queue as leader' with a checkbox option
-Let leaders kick someone without needing votes
-Let leaders 'mute' someone from any channel that isn't guild/circle until the person leaves group or is kicked
-Keep vote disband as-is
 
And even better:
 
-Increased Glory reward for content that takes more time (Veteran Protostar in particular)
-Increase deserter debuff to 1 hour cooldown instead of 15 mins
-Vote disband = deserter debuff for everyone
-Leave group = deserter debuff for that person
-Kicked = no deserter debuff
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Vet Protogames should be 20-25 minutes
Vet academy can be done in 14
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If WildStar really wanted to be revolutionary, they could've gone for a similar approach to 'Support' being 'shield before a big skill' rather than 'heal up after it hits'.Put far less reliance on one or two support in a group and make support something that everyone helps contribute to the fight.
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			The easiest solution is to add a bunch of decor or really awesome clothes. If Mister 'The-Eldan-Are-Great-and-So-is-Augmentation' dropped pieces of his clothing (particularly his 'cyborg' limbs), then it would be quite a popular instance. At least until everyone unlocks the looks. 
			
				
	Edited December 10, 2015 by Ildur	
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Vet Protogames should be 20-25 minutes
Vet academy can be done in 14
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			Food is not at all necessary for Academy...	
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If you can believe it, the last time I did a full-random-pug group of vet academy (everyone level 10 scaled down), there was one 50 in group and even THEN it took about 2 hours to clear.
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Ok Carbine.  Here's your challenge:
Please give players more tools to moderate their groups easier/better without relying on voting for everything.
 
-Let us 'queue as leader' with a checkbox option
-Let leaders kick someone without needing votes
-Let leaders 'mute' someone from any channel that isn't guild/circle until the person leaves group or is kicked
-Keep vote disband as-is
 
And even better:
 
-Increased Glory reward for content that takes more time (Veteran Protostar in particular)
-Increase deserter debuff to 1 hour cooldown instead of 15 mins
-Vote disband = deserter debuff for everyone
-Leave group = deserter debuff for that person
-Kicked = no deserter debuff
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This would not be vet academy- this would be normal academy.
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Okay, yeah, I'm glad this wasn't just me. xD I thought I was going insane. There's no veteran Academy.
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Food is not at all necessary for Academy...
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			Then il just queue as leader and vote kick people who wont disband. All these ideas are stupid. #Blamethevets is all this thread has become. How about don't queue for content you aren't geared for? Because if you are a new healer and you have a new tank GUESS WHATS NOT GOING TO END WELL? Slimey gona rek you.Then the undergeared Dps, Ahh the joy of trash in my queues. How many times do people need to be told they aren't geared enough for the content before they go and get the gear from the content tiered below.Fact is if you queue and dont pull your own weight then you will be kicked. if i inspect you before we start and have Greens/Blues with no runes then il just disband. Instead of crying about how people are so selfish maybe look in the mirror and see the stupid shit these new players try to get away with.	
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There *is* veteran academy- but it's very, very different from normal.
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I'm afraid it's possible if the dungeon is badly designed. Players at those levels are learning the game and they are at a low level, so they not only are missing lots of the tools the class uses but they are also missing on experience on how to be efficient about their rotations and general Damage Dealing.
 
I have never done it, though, so I can't comment on if this is INDEED THE CASE, but it's possible in principle.	
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			I don't know, when I created alts and played with my friends that were just picking up the game we weren't properly geared for academy but had no problem with the burn phase. Not a big sample size I know, but we've never hit a wall in there. My friend didn't even know it was a one hit kill punish mechanic because the cast never made it halfway until his 4th run with a random.
			
				
	Edited December 11, 2015 by Frosthaven	
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Then il just queue as leader and vote kick people who wont disband. 
 
All these ideas are stupid. #Blamethevets is all this thread has become. How about don't queue for content you aren't geared for? Because if you are a new healer and you have a new tank GUESS WHATS NOT GOING TO END WELL? Slimey gona rek you.
 
Then the undergeared Dps, Ahh the joy of trash in my queues. How many times do people need to be told they aren't geared enough for the content before they go and get the gear from the content tiered below.
 
Fact is if you queue and dont pull your own weight then you will be kicked. if i inspect you before we start and have Greens/Blues with no runes then il just disband. Instead of crying about how people are so selfish maybe look in the mirror and see the stupid shit these new players try to get away with.
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I don't know, when I created alts and played with my friends that were just picking up the game we weren't properly geared for academy but had no problem with the burn phase. Not a big sample size I know, but we've never hit a wall in there. My friend didn't even know it was a one hit kill punish mechanic because the cast never made it halfway until his 4th run with a random.
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Lower level stuff isn't as gear-intensive as you make it out to be.
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Wierd forum error with multiquoting, gonna seperate this post then.
Feel free to do solo queues for a few nights and get a better feel for how things are outside of your tiny circle of friends.
As an added bonus, try to do all of it without any voice comm or extensive explanations, just like a real pug!  :P
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			I think the OP was talking about the skill cap at high end in Wildstar. He didn't once suggest making it easier just for himself. He didn't call for nerfs to particular classes or indeed buffs to others. What he did was state an intelligent case for self-exclusion. It doesnt sound (to me at least) like he's a casual player and it sounds like the challenge was met with guildies as a fun but rigorous effort to limited effect. I certainly agree that raiding should not be a guaranteed success for any guild regardless of gear or team comp and I totally understand the feeling of hitting a brick wall for sure. What I would say is, success can be measured by "completion" on the one hand, but failing miserably is done better in good company and it sounds like your guild enjoy having you there. These are the reasons to carry on having a stab at it. Gear, practice, positioning but above all fun in failure make it worth just one more go at least hehe :D	
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Says the person who thinks people should be expected to bring food to a leveling dungeon. >_>;
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Isn't that just Ultimate Protogames, though? The other poster made it sound like there is both "vet" Protogames and "vet" Academy, which is not the case.
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Nope- they added a veteran version of Academy. now there is UPG and PA at level 50.
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haha, this thread is starting to become funny.  Dont queue because your to geared.  Don't disband an instance when people with all this experience know when they see a player with questing greens or no runes in a vet dungeon because their "learning".    Vets to hard for f2p.  The food does help, but it's not make or break for vet dungeons except maybe in Vet Academy last boss.    
 
-No one is going to disband if have deserter, instead it's going to be even more toxic.  One person will leave and 4 others wont get deserter.  Than it comes down to having 3-4 players and queue up.  Than it comes down to whenever you leave an instance, you get deserter.  No one wants to deal with that.
-Some instances aren't great to run when queue for rewards.  Malgrave when doing adventures. Old SSM prior to streamlining it.  Academy is hard and so is UPG.  Those 2 dungeons are for players already in dungeon gear, not in adventure gear.  Doesn't say much about it, but it was meant for that.  There's a reason there are better rewards in those dungeons than the others.
 
Idk, make a queue for experienced and queue for learners......watch what pops more.	
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Here's a radical idea.  Don't join random queues with randoms.  Make a group of your own and be sure to tick the 'dont search for other players' box.
Bingo, done, your problems are solved and everything is sunshine and cupcakes.
 
In every single queue system on every single MMO you have people who just queue up and expect to steamroll through it.  Let them learn without troubling your pretty little dino head about it.  You stick to your stuff and the rest of us can stick to the random queues to help others or to receive help.  We don't need you or anyone with an attitude like that in random queues, so kindly slag off.
 
Let the newbies learn by trial and error if that's how they like.  Lower level stuff isn't as gear-intensive as you make it out to be.
 
F2P happened and the vets have driven away enough players.  It is about time someone called you and others like you out on it.
 
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{| class="blockquote"
Then il just queue as leader and vote kick people who wont disband. 
 
All these ideas are stupid. #Blamethevets is all this thread has become. How about don't queue for content you aren't geared for? Because if you are a new healer and you have a new tank GUESS WHATS NOT GOING TO END WELL? Slimey gona rek you.
 
Then the undergeared Dps, Ahh the joy of trash in my queues. How many times do people need to be told they aren't geared enough for the content before they go and get the gear from the content tiered below.
 
Fact is if you queue and dont pull your own weight then you will be kicked. if i inspect you before we start and have Greens/Blues with no runes then il just disband. Instead of crying about how people are so selfish maybe look in the mirror and see the stupid shit these new players try to get away with.
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Oh gosh, I'm so glad people like you are the exception instead of the norm..........sadly this game will fall victim to your kinds stupidity. Enjoy sitting next to City of Heroes assbag.
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yup the stupidity that makes the guides that your people need because they cant understand basic mechanics and stats. 
 
yea *cupcake*my kind
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{| class="blockquote"
I'd call you pathetic, but that would be unkind and largely irrelevant to this setting. My point is proven by the state of this game and the perception people have of it. Most people work all day, very few want to come home and continue that in a video game. That being said I can understand the desire for a type of game to fill the void left by unemployment/laziness.
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I'd call you pathetic, but that would be unkind and largely irrelevant to this setting. My point is proven by the state of this game and the perception people have of it. Most people work all day, very few want to come home and continue that in a video game. That being said I can understand the desire for a type of game to fill the void left by unemployment/laziness.
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			Is that the excuse you are going to use for being bad at a video game? I have a job?Did i hurt your feelings? Is being bad really affecting your daily life. That must suck. Don't worry though the content keeps getting nerfed and classes keep getting buffed so even the baddest of bads can find success in Wildstar	
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			simply put, when I do pve I show up prepared and ready to rock. you can ask ANYONE I'm no PvE hero... but I wont be the deadweight in a group... unlike some people I know*(who shall remain nameless due to forum mods hunting me like some sort of rare trophy kill) I'm actually NOT a toxic player... I know that when I click that button to que for something, I'm respectful of the other 4 strangers time and energy, so I come prepared... when I first qued in pvp gear I knew my dps wasn't going to be stellar due to so many wasted runeslots/ect... so I went in with smackdown, powerlink, and every interrupt(tier'd up aswell) I could slot... and while I will be the first to admit I don't look up dungeon guides, ill also say it's because dungeons simply aren't hard for me... I can wing it... if I die to something once it's usually not a huge deal - I simply say "my B" and chances are the rest of the group didn't whipe or anything so I can figure the fight out while I'm dead if I have to... but generally speaking dungeons are pretty casual... if a dps takes a dirt nap it's usually not going to make or break anything... so if you are a quick learner and are atleast watching your screen I won't knock points off for eating something you shouldn't... if you think you're a hard learner - then you should respect everyone elses time and RESEARCH before you go in... when I get a job offer for a client(I work for people with disabilities) I ask what their conditions are... if I don't know what it is, I spent 10-15 minutes googling their condition, what I can expect them to have troubles with, and how to handle it... do you think my clients are elitist because they expect me to have a clue about their conditions before I even show up to the job? no... it's common sence/coutesy...if you aren't pulling you​r weight I'll usually ask that you take some interrupts, if you ignore me and don't then expect to get kicked... if you mess up on the fights I ask if you need the boss explained... if you keep doing it, tbh I usually just ignore it... if the group is a trap group I just leave after a few whipes... it's THEIR struggle to learn the fights, not mine... but in general if you're consistently getting wrecked by bosses, if it's not whiping the party I don't mind... I'm sure they are just as frustrated as the rest of the group... I mean chances are I laugh when I see someone terrible getting a nice view from the floor everytime... I really DONT care if you're just not GOOD... I only care if you don't TRY at all... that's my problem... it's REALLY easy to understand... take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. hard concept I know... there is literally a person in this thread that called a guy who expects adults to understand basic math an elitist... infact that guy's argument was that basic math and logic/reasoning in general are skills you will need as an adult, to not simply cop out with a "when will I ever use this" attitude... I 100% agree because i know people IN COLLEGE who I've asked simple questions like "so how much do you average a day in tips working at _____"  or asking them what their approximate wage is after taxes, gas expenses, ect... and they cant... people pulling out calculators to tip people... so this whole "not taking personal responsibility" is not uncommon, and it has adverse effects on everyone around you, including yourself. if you aren't great, take the time to farm up good gear to balance it... if you aren't well geared - take tons of utility/debuffs/buffs​... if you are a slow learner - watch videos before you click that button...  queing into random conte​nt unprepared is toxic... people calling you out on it aren't being toxic. i like that cupcake wants a leader gets to boot people without votes, and gives them deserters... yet he complains his experiences in any group content is completely terrible, and dispite radically different accounts from everyone elses experiences, he still thinks HE isn't the problem :rolleyes:	
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wow hahaha such salt wow. broski, i work enough for 2 "fulltime" jobs... stop assuming that people having diligence somehow translates to unemployment... it's more likely the opposite, trust me - my friends are a broad spectrum financially and their gaming habits are just about as dedicated as their work habits. if you don't want to put in time and energy NEWS FLASH, MMORPGS ARENT FOR YOU. there are SOOOOOO many instant gratification game genres out there... so PLS. bring the tears somewhere else.
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			Personal Responsibility in Wildstar? Thats a noe noe	
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{| class="blockquote"
Is that the excuse you are going to use for being bad at a video game? I have a job?
 
Did i hurt your feelings? Is being bad really affecting your daily life. That must suck. Don't worry though the content keeps getting nerfed and classes keep getting buffed so even the baddest of bads can find success in Wildstar
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{| class="blockquote"
. However the assholes that feel the need to impose their elitism on others 
 
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{| class="blockquote"
 No you did not hurt my feelings, in fact I'm cracking a smile at your arrogance. You seem like one of those gym class all-stars, so congratulations at be steller at a fading game!
----
			this game is plenty accessible... what do you consider accessible? if the dungeons are HARD for you then it's content you can work TOWARDS. do you just want it to be the tea cup ride at Disney with loot at the end? wildstar has plenty of different difficulty levels, each one rewards you with the gear to complete the next, as well as the skillset you'll need to expand upon in the next difficulty level.... how is that not adequately rewarded? and don't bring up wow as an example... that game has TANKED it's numbers DIRECTLY cooresponding with a patch that made CONTENT ACCESSIBLE. please, do some homework before you try to tell people what game companies should do, because I guarantee you just like parents - they can't listen do the "kids'... kids don't always know what's good for them, and while you might want to eat the whole bag of candy now(easy access to content) you'll get a stomach ache and not want candy ever again if you do it(raidfinder).so please, tell us more about how accessibility has helped wow financially.​	
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{| class="blockquote"
this game is plenty accessible... what do you consider accessible? if the dungeons are HARD for you then it's content you can work TOWARDS. do you just want it to be the tea cup ride at Disney with loot at the end? wildstar has plenty of different difficulty levels, each one rewards you with the gear to complete the next, as well as the skillset you'll need to expand upon in the next difficulty level.... how is that not adequately rewarded? and don't bring up wow as an example... that game has TANKED it's numbers DIRECTLY cooresponding with a patch that made CONTENT ACCESSIBLE. please, do some homework before you try to tell people what game companies should do, because I guarantee you just like parents - they can't listen do the "kids'... kids don't always know what's good for them, and while you might want to eat the whole bag of candy now(easy access to content) you'll get a stomach ache and not want candy ever again if you do it(raidfinder).
 
so please, tell us more about how accessibility has helped wow financially.​
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			I dunno we have more viewers than Animal Crossing #winning	
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{| class="blockquote"
Also, if you are going to argue that the reason there is more people watching and streaming "Mario Sunshine" that Wildstar was the server issues at F2P release, well then I've apparently just wasted my time arguing with a potted plant.
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{| class="blockquote"
I have very little to comment on the difficulty subject reletive to myself since what I've run has been fine. That being said, I fancy myself in the average to above-average section of MMO players so what my experience is may vastly differ from anothers. Also, you are grossly incorrect with your assessment and facts on my statement. Burning Crusade is the game most commonly compared to WS's difficulty and raiding genre. It was difficult, mind-numbling so at the very end (Sunwell).......to the point that only a small percentile of players actually got to even experience that content. The Wotlk expansion solved the accessability problem by intorducing a greater variety of difficulty levels. That expac saw the largest increase in consistant player volume, as well as it's peak subscriber #. Changes towards the end of the xpac and the following xpac are what I assume you are referring to, to which I will restate my previous comment....."there is a line which MMO's need to walk".
 
Also, if you are going to argue that the reason there is more people watching and streaming "Mario Sunshine" that Wildstar was the server issues at F2P release, well then I've apparently just wasted my time arguing with a potted plant.
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			Alright I surrender, yall are right...............this game is great and will succeed as planned, I mean it already has what a solid 50-60k active accounts? Ignorance is bliss right?	
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{| class="blockquote"
Alright I surrender, yall are right...............this game is great and will succeed as planned, I mean it already has what a solid 50-60k active accounts? Ignorance is bliss right?
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't need to argue this point anymore because it should be relatively clear after the cliff-like population dropoff post F2P.
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False causality.
 
There are many issues with Wildstar but content accessibility is not one of them.  If it were the case we'd see a higher population retained than initial release because content is much much more accessible now.  What you see as a problem is actually your lack of compatibility with this game; you are not the target audience.
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I might regret interjecting into this, but there are a lot of assumptions being made about Wildstar's difficulty and it being a quality that makes Wildstar a less successful MMO.
 
Firstly, while I agree that are some significant issues within Wildstar and belligerent elitists in its community exacerbating those problems, I consider myself not even an /average/ player and I don't often die to Skullcanoe. I mean I literally end up rolling into laser beams and off ledges all the time. I have the hand-eye coordination of a drunken yak and constantly making some embarrassing blunders.. yet the dungeons have mostly been fun for me? I'd hate to see the dynamism in them become toned down so that I don't get as much of a rush from the encounters as I do now, and I've never felt like my skill was an impenetrable wall towards enjoying the game. I think a bigger issue here isn't that people are bad, but that certain other players can't help but try to establish some kind of hierarchy by treating people like shit because they aren't awesome at this video game.
 
Saying things like "Never queue for bgs again" or.. "Quit being retarded".. or in general thinking your vaunted skill makes you above treating people like not-garbage.. is the kind of elitist problem Wildstar has and is being demonstrated in this thread by people who conjure up all kinds of reasons to justify why they don't need to behave decently. That kind of thing needs to stop or at least be actively discouraged.
 
Secondly, trying to pinpoint a specific quality in games which leads to success/failure is a common misconception of how markets and human psychology works. There are a few studies in social-oriented sciences which have explored the way trends operate and people, funnily enough, don't really have the ability to pick out a superior/inferior quality when making their own decisions. Rather what's popular tends to become more popular, and what's less popular tends to become less popular - to where separated but randomly chosen groups can come to entirely opposite conclusions about whether subjective experiences (in the study I'm thinking of: music) are better or worse... but primarily based on what the people around them are favoring/disliking. The exact mechanisms behind peoples' thinking isn't perfectly understood at this point, but that's the empirically observed truth *shrug* Wildstar's difficulty might not even be the point that drives people off.
 
The best thing folks could do at this point is extol the virtues of Wildstar to their friends who aren't playing the game, or otherwise raise positive awareness about the game. Cover a broad basis so that maybe /something/ will catch their interest and get them to log in.	
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Many good and valid points being mentioned here. And I strongly aggree with the ppl saying that no one should say that this is not the game for you. Wildstar must cater to all kinds of players to succeed as an mmo. Just like wow do. 
 
One good thing about wow I started to notice in mist of panderia. The LFR thing realy helped me to play the content I wanted. Granted. ..in wod the LFR have been a little to easy. ...
 
But I would love to raid in ws. I was in one GA pug and I loved it. We failed at the x-88 boss, but I had a blast. 
 
Problem now is:
 
1. I dont have time to raid at specific times. Making even guild raiding realy hard. This goes for alot of mmoers. ..we dont need to be server first. .but we do like to play the content. ..
2. I got locked out from GA the instant I set foot in there with a pug. ..meaning. .I dont get to play raid again for one week :(
 
Solution : remove lock or make it only lock boss loot. ..they do this in wow and should be mmo standard. 
 
Make an interface to be able to que for raids. .If not LFR. .then at least the same system as in normal raid wow.
			
				
	Edited December 13, 2015 by styrm	
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{| class="blockquote"
Secondly, trying to pinpoint a specific quality in games which leads to success/failure is a common misconception of how markets and human psychology works. There are a few studies in social-oriented sciences which have explored the way trends operate and people, funnily enough, don't really have the ability to pick out a superior/inferior quality when making their own decisions. Rather what's popular tends to become more popular, and what's less popular tends to become less popular - to where separated but randomly chosen groups can come to entirely opposite conclusions about whether subjective experiences (in the study I'm thinking of: music) are better or worse... but primarily based on what the people around them are favoring/disliking. The exact mechanisms behind peoples' thinking isn't perfectly understood at this point, but that's the empirically observed truth *shrug* Wildstar's difficulty might not even be the point that drives people off.
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			Sorry, when I said subjective experiences I meant not only situations where there's a nebulous preference, but where there's any uncertainty as to a clear answer... and even then people can find themselves being swayed or at least doubting themselves when it comes to plain observations if the social situation leans against them. There's far too much post-hoc reasoning involved in many proclamations as to success/failure when people overly assume a quality is involved (it can be but its not necessarily the case), and it's probably something that shouldn't be overstated and used as a cudgel of persuasion. Also I should probably point out that our experiences of content difficulty aren't anywhere near the same, so there's probably at least some uncertainty there? I do feel Wildstar's end-game needs to have more clear paths like I said, but there are multiple threads of argument being deployed in this discussion and I was mostly addressing the idea that end-game was necessarily out of reach due to some difficulty and not merely a bit too limited at the moment.	
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In a pug group, nope to both of those.
If you can believe it, the last time I did a full-random-pug group of vet regular academy (everyone level 10 scaled down), there was one 50 in group and even THEN it took about 2 hours to clear.
Why?  Because people couldn't be bothered to bring consumables for the 'dps race' at the final boss.
 
My thing now is pretty simple.  I let the pug know that I'm a '3 strikes' person.  After 3 wipes on the same boss, I hop out.  They can replace me with someone far more patient.
Since I'm the healer, I'm hoping this gives them incentive NOT to keep wiping but to improve or bother with consumables next time.
 
Ideally, queues would require that players have X number of medishots (or equivalent) and X number of food items in their inventory before joining a queue.  Hell, ANY food item would work and it would also keep people from just vendoring the free ones they get from monster drops.
 
There's only so much that the devs can do though.  Go too strict and people don't bother to even queue.
 
I'm not sure what people have been going on about low-level queues not popping.  They pop in under 5 mins (usually under 2 mins most times) every time.
 
EDIT:  Regular, not vet
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{| class="blockquote"
Then il just queue as leader and vote kick people who wont disband. 
 
All these ideas are stupid. #Blamethevets is all this thread has become. How about don't queue for content you aren't geared for? Because if you are a new healer and you have a new tank GUESS WHATS NOT GOING TO END WELL? Slimey gona rek you.
 
Then the undergeared Dps, Ahh the joy of trash in my queues. How many times do people need to be told they aren't geared enough for the content before they go and get the gear from the content tiered below.
 
Fact is if you queue and dont pull your own weight then you will be kicked. if i inspect you before we start and have Greens/Blues with no runes then il just disband. Instead of crying about how people are so selfish maybe look in the mirror and see the stupid shit these new players try to get away with.
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Let's clean this up a bit.
 
Does wildstar have some issues with content?  yes, there are "some" issues.  The biggest i see is that WBs were intended to be a bridge between dungeons and raid content by having a relatively easy boss-in-a-box feeling, but still have mechanics difficult to punish you if you screw up.
 
In reality, that is what these encounters were designed to be - and the encounters are.   The problem with WBs right now is that no one does them with their correct number (about 20) and instead we do them with far more (40-200+).  Why?  because a)  Farming paps is annoying.  Personally, i would rather stick a syringe of corrsive acid into my eyeball rather than kill trash.  I absolutely despise killing trash for rewards in game.  b)  When you can kill a WB without farming paps, why not?  It's great rewards for for the one minute of "effort" you put into the fight.  and c)  If the fight is hard/entertaining with 20 people and you might fail, why not invite 200 people and succeed from the start?
 
I STRONGLY advocate for instance world bosses to solve this issue.  While i know wildstar's "open-world" is designed with the idea of being non-instnaced, but when holding to a principle like this only makes the game worse, why do it?  I'm to instance WBs, carbine.
 
As for dungeons, they are honestly not that difficult.  It is not really "gear" what people are talking about.  My guildmates took in their alts in ilv 60-70 gear and had a great time running vet dungeons?  Why?  because they are GOOD PLAYERS.  ALl gear does is cover your errors, if you don't make errors, you don't really need gear.  No auto attack in a dungeon is so powerful that you would die to some auto-attack.  Ultimately when you fail a dungeon, you have to blame yourself.
 
By complaining that game is too hard, when it is in fact, is not, is saying "I am too bad but i am unwilling to admit it."
 
Ultimately, veteran content is stuff to work toward.  If you don't have time to raid, you have to work toward dungeons.  They have to challange you, otherwise, why bother?  Clear the content and quit.  The content must be difficult for that reason, hence, people need to learn.
 
We should help people get better!  I have recently helped, and will continue to help, new players learn the game before them.  The problem is that many people are unwilling to ask for help.   This is of course, a problem with people in all games, not the design of this one.
 
I bet, any game with any significant challange would have a thread like this.  At some point, a player can quit their damn whining and take responsibility for themselves.
 
When i play, it is my responsibility to be good.  When I am bad, it is absolutely my own responsibility as well.  It's not the game being too hard, it's the fact i am not good enough.
 
What is left out of this - each of us can change things that are responsibility.  You can always get better, can't you?  but all the whining in the world doesn't make NCSoft give carbine millions of dollars to hire an army of programming monkeys to tailor THEIR game to OUR personal wishes.  Ultimately, we can only control ourselves.	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
It's a no win situation...make the end easy and obtainable for the average player, or keep it the way it is! The end result will just be the same if your in that mindset.
What the game needs and is slowly getting, more and more casual content, they need to keep building on events, contracts, world bosses while still keeping the edge on the end game.
 
I'm the worse jumper in the game, should they remove jump puzzles?....don't be silly :)
 
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{| class="blockquote"
Secondly, trying to pinpoint a specific quality in games which leads to success/failure is a common misconception of how markets and human psychology works. There are a few studies in social-oriented sciences which have explored the way trends operate and people, funnily enough, don't really have the ability to pick out a superior/inferior quality when making their own decisions. Rather what's popular tends to become more popular, and what's less popular tends to become less popular - to where separated but randomly chosen groups can come to entirely opposite conclusions about whether subjective experiences (in the study I'm thinking of: music) are better or worse... but primarily based on what the people around them are favoring/disliking. The exact mechanisms behind peoples' thinking isn't perfectly understood at this point, but that's the empirically observed truth *shrug* Wildstar's difficulty might not even be the point that drives people off.
 
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one thing Is for sure..wow does not loose players because of its accessability!..the reason is probably many...Garrisons was a cool thing..for 1-2 mnts..but it fail completely as something ppl would do forever...
 
Wow is also a bit dated...animation wise...and char creation wise...they loose some for this too..
 
But overall quality is steller in wow..and raiding and combat is very good..but lack a little bit in modern day animation etc...
 
but...Legion will bring most of them (us) back for some time anyway.
 
But I want Wildstar to be a good "on-a-wow-break-game"....and they could improve this in many waiys..strating first to make raiding more accessible to ppl....by not locking the Whole instance for 1 week if you just enter the thing..VERY few pugs actually manage to Complete the Whole thing..and locking us off makes us not able to practice the boss fights either....
			
				
	Edited December 13, 2015 by styrm	
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I think I am basically saying. Make Raiding also accesible to pugging...and by that i dont mean the way it is today. OFC pugs can raid in WS atm...they have always been able to...in teory!...but make it more a "quality of life" thing...no locking of Whole raid once you enter etc..make it vialbe to be able to pug e.g. GA With 10 different pugs one week...maybe killing a few bosses With each of them.
 
And there solution is NOT ALWAYS..MAKE FRIENDS!!...ppl can play perfectly fine without any friends. One can be friendly and contributing With random strangers too. Why should one always assume ppl guild up and make friends or Your out of here? Its hard for me to be in a guild and to raid at specific times. Why cant I raid when i have time? WOW is Perfect in this way!!! you have LFR and you have a system that tells you someone is looking for random ppl to raid normal....i cant see why WS not can have this too.
 
the attunment GONE was a VERY good thing for WS...it got me into a pug raid..but the "stone age" locking system makes pugging raids a VERY Dangerous thing to do (risking getting locked out without killing any bosses...like I was)
			
				
	Edited December 13, 2015 by styrm	
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Where is this accessability problem in Wildstar?
 
You want to level, do quests, see zones?
Then go out there and do them. There's no need for you to have a complete guide, detailing every step needed to do this content.
You don't need a fully decked out ilvl 120 gear set with divine runes to do this content.
 
You want to do Shiphands?
Can run them solo and get gold.
Again, no special guides or gears are needed to clear this content.
 
Okay, maybe you want to do adventures and dungeons?
Basic blues are sufficient for this. But if you've been clearing the above points, you should have this.
Finding people to do it with it? That's not an accessability problem, that's a player problem.
There's enough people out there that want to run these things. Just look at the damned complains about "I can't find anyone to do content".
Here's a tip : talk to each other and organise a group. There's circles, channels and guilds specifically for this.
 
Let's move on.
"Oh noez this attunement sucks".
No it doesn't. It takes a single weekend to get fully attuned, and that's taking it really liberal and slow.
Can be done alone even, just goes a bit slower.
 
So you've crawled through all that, and now want to raid.
"But I need 20 people".
Newsflash, you don't.
My guild, who's a mix of every kind of player recently started raiding again.
We have people with experience, complete newbies, people refusing to use Addons, and people who are clueless on gear, class and rotations.
And guess what, we just downed Kuralak with 15 people.
 
The game has issues, everyone knows that.
Carbine is working on them. And I agree that some issues should have been fixed long ago or changed.
But this is IT, and changing Software on a scale of an MMO is not done overnight and usually not that easy.
 
But the most moaning and complaining I see on these forums, has NOTHING to do with the game.
These complaints are people that:
 
Are clueless on what they are complaining about	
Actually want to be playing a MOBA	Actually want to be playing a Single Player Adventure.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I think I am basically saying. Make Raiding also accesible to pugging...and by that i dont mean the way it is today. OFC pugs can raid in WS atm...they have always been able to...in teory!...but make it more a "quality of life" thing...no locking of Whole raid once you enter etc..make it vialbe to be able to pug e.g. GA With 10 different pugs one week...maybe killing a few bosses With each of them.
 
And there solution is NOT ALWAYS..MAKE FRIENDS!!...ppl can play perfectly fine without any friends. One can be friendly and contributing With random strangers too. Why should one always assume ppl guild up and make friends or Your out of here?
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{| class="blockquote"
3. Actually want to be playing a Single Player Adventure.
 
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What, WS isn't a singleplayer game? OMG apocalypse!
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{| class="blockquote"
All these ideas are stupid. #Blamethevets is all this thread has become. How about don't queue for content you aren't geared for? Because if you are a new healer and you have a new tank GUESS WHATS NOT GOING TO END WELL? Slimey gona rek you.
 
Then the undergeared Dps, Ahh the joy of trash in my queues. How many times do people need to be told they aren't geared enough for the content before they go and get the gear from the content tiered below.
 
Fact is if you queue and dont pull your own weight then you will be kicked. if i inspect you before we start and have Greens/Blues with no runes then il just disband. Instead of crying about how people are so selfish maybe look in the mirror and see the stupid shit these new players try to get away with.
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To be fair, this shouldn't be happening in the first place. It's only because TT insists on implementing a archaic group finder system (to match the raid system) with no gearscore req that this is even a problem at all.
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Who is talking about single player? 
 
Ollie you know damn well that the raid system is hard for pugs. Why are you so against making it better? Its almost as you kinda dont want more ppl to raid. ..	
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