146723-wildstar-not-for-this-average-player-page-6

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Who is talking about single player?
 
Ollie you know damn well that the raid system is hard for pugs. Why are you so against making it better? Its almost as you kinda dont want more ppl to raid. ..
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As I said. .it does not have to be a LFR. .it does not have ro be easy. .it only have to be Open enough that pugs can try. ..and most likely fail...and then try again the next night with a mostly different pug. ...basically. .apply the same lock system that wow raid have currently. .
 
Like my experience. ..why lock me out for a week? I did not kill any bosses. ..
			
				
	Edited December 13, 2015 by styrm	
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As I said. .it does not have to be a LFR. .it does not have ro be easy. .it only have to be Open enough that pugs can try. ..and most likely fail...and then try again the next night with a mostly different pug. ...basically. .apply the same lock system that wow raid have currently. .
 
Like my experience. ..why lock me out for a week? I did not kill any bosses. ..
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			Then we prob killed a mini boss yes...but still	
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And yes it requires a rework. .I want them to do it:)
 
Only one possible loot per week per boss. Just like wow. But you can kill the boss as many times as you like. Ofc this might be tweaked during world first etc 
			
				
	Edited December 13, 2015 by styrm	
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Restricting people from content due gear is a bad idea as well.
Final Fantasy XIV is notorious for this. 1 ilvl too low? Too bad, you ain't doing this dungeon. As if it will make a difference.
 
The biggest problem is not the gear people have, it's the mentality.
Sure, a viable minimum on gear would be nice and recommended for everyone, but the biggest problem is two-fold:
 
People not interupting during the dungeon run
People not having a clue, which is normal, but refusing to ask for help
Even with ilvl 120 gear in every slot, if you are in one of those 2 categories, you will not run through a dungeo. Period.
And you can make whatever group finder system for that as you want, it's not going to solve the problem.
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Haha. You really can't compare WildStars group content to FF14's though. FF14 has the best group finder interface/system ever developed for an mmo, it is literally perfect. You can bypass the restrictions as well if you have a full group (plus you can downscale your group to give the dungeon its original challenge). It never takes long to get a group for any dungeon in FF14, espcially if you queue as a healer or tank (tanks recieve extra rewards), it only lets people play content they've prepared for so they don't end up with people complaining about the content being too hard. I could go on but there's no point.
 
FF has a group finder designed by experts who did their homework and know exactly what they're doing, and this is evident in the results. WildStar's is amatuar and only moderately funtional.
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Making it easier/smaller != making it better.
Having a tool to organize groups for raids? By all means, implement it and bring it out.
A LFR version of everything, or dumbing stuff down because "hur durr, it's too hard to get in", please go back to HKO, WoW or another MMO.
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It's clearly pointless arguing with your type, but for humor sakes I'll give it a go. I'm not claiming to know the exact reason why there are a grand total of 16 (lol more people are watching GTA 3), but I'd venture a guess that if the combat's difficulty was as enthralling and critical to this game as you describe it.........people would want to stream it or at the very least watch it.
 
All I see is a bunch of jackderps in this thread saying "if I can do it so can they", well guess what sparky..........it doesn't look that way does it? A game with this level of relative polish, art design, and generally fun gameplay should not be failing THIS HARD. People want to argue and complain about WoW, but Blizzard did their math and did it very well. The hardcore/elitists nearly always make up a very small portion of a game, in fact if you look at the #'s they released during the early xpacs about the % of players who got to experience all the content it's a bit shocking actually. This game is dying simply because people DON'T WANT TO PLAY IT, so get off your derptrain and realize there's a major problem.
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We don't need millions of people to play this game. We want the people playing here that have the same mindset.
 
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Don't blame the game for people not being able to execute basic mechanics.
Raids are challenging, but far from being impossible.
People complain and argue, comparing against WoW, because WoW is easy.
It's the route WoW decided to take.
It's not the route we want WildStar to take. We want a game that is fun and challenging. The changes proposed are not that.
We don't need millions of people to play this game. We want the people playing here that have the same mindset.
 
And after nearly 2 years we are really tired of seing the same bloody request every week.
 
No we dont want it easy
No we dont want a LFR
No the game is not closing shop nest month
No you cannot play this game alone
 
The only major problem out here is people like yourself trying to turn the game into something it should not be.
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			Agree. .If its one thing carbine and ncsoft wants. .its millions of players. .its time they make the adjustment needed.
			
				
	Edited December 13, 2015 by styrm	
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actually you do. Wildstar spend OVER A DECADE in development. With a decently sized team. They have to make a profit AND make up for the development costs, or it's not a great investment for Ncsoft to keep it open. It wasn't a small team, it wasn't a crowd funded project, it has to have a lot of players if it wants to be kept open.
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Wildstar's pre-release development costs have most certainly been written off by NCsoft and do not matter a lot for decisions about keeping or closing the game. As for the "lots of players", there's one thing that your group always ignores: Will they actually come if WS is made a faceroll game like WoW? That market is crowded enough and one thing is certain: if that happens, the first consequence will be the loss of many players.
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Wildstar's pre-release development costs have most certainly been written off by NCsoft and do not matter a lot for decisions about keeping or closing the game. As for the "lots of players", there's one thing that your group always ignores: Will they actually come if WS is made a faceroll game like WoW? That market is crowded enough and one thing is certain: if that happens, the first consequence will be the loss of many players.
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Wildstar's pre-release development costs have most certainly been written off by NCsoft and do not matter a lot for decisions about keeping or closing the game. As for the "lots of players", there's one thing that your group always ignores: Will they actually come if WS is made a faceroll game like WoW? That market is crowded enough and one thing is certain: if that happens, the first consequence will be the loss of many players.
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if your feedback from new players, like Olivar stated, is ALWAYS the same, before they leave, then they're likely to stay if their conditions are met. For example:
 
"no, we don't want LFR"
 
if it kept players and allowed casuals to raid, what do you even care? 
 
"no you cannot play the game alone"
 
if there was plenty of content that's solo or pug friendly and influences your content in no way, then what do you care? 
 
As it stands right now, the game is not diverse enough to please a variety of players and having in mind that PvP servers are ALREADY emptying out, that's a problem. That problem will have to be addressed somehow or the trend will continue.
It's a free to play title. If you don't see enough people to keep 4 servers full IN A FREE TO PLAY TITLE, no matter how much you talk, or what you say, both profits and population IS a problem.
 
And we can sit here chatting all we want. The same way that we could have sat here a year ago chatting all we want. It doesn't change the fact that both the sub model Wildstar and the Free To Play Wildstar lost players at a similar rate. So something is wrong. And it's up to Carbine to choose how to proceed and up to players to choose what to play. But if too many players choose not to play Wildstar it will not be kept open.
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And many of us dont need for the content to be easier. .Just more accessible. .
 
And. ..as has been leaked. ..they are about to change how they do things. .details I cant remember, but I think raid boss release more often was a key word. 
 
And Personally I believe that carbine will shift ws to cater more and more to ppl that only have a few hours here and there to play....	
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Give it a rest mirta.
Your point of view is known since long time, and your argument is as wrong as it can be.
Just because there are 4 servers does not mean they need to be filled up to max.
have you read anything in this whole thread, or just butting in again because you found 3 sentences you can pick apart?
 
A game does not need million of people to be succesful.
It needs enough people to make sufficient profit to please the publisher. Nothing more, nothing less.
And even that is debatable if you know how capital ventures work.
I know companies that have been running for 5 years with a net loss, yet keep getting funded to push the product forward.
And that is what actually matters to get money. As long as your investors follow you in your goal, they will invest.
But that's going out of topic here. Feel free to PM me if you want a 101 course on capital ventures and investments.
 
Secondly, arguing about "not enough players".
Does anyone here have any evidence about the amount of people playing?
Or are we all just second guessing and pulling up numbers based on own experiences without being able to back it up?
I can login at 03:00 am and take screenshot, screaming "game is ded", and I can counter myself later that day by taking a screenshot of 200 people ganging  up on a single mob.
So unless you can provide some actual evidence, stop whining.
 
LFR.
Here's the whole revelation about your toy:
It will not bring you more people. You are going to lose people.
 
The core that's playing now and doesn't want it:  they will leave
The people that don't care will probably stay
The temporary influx you hope to get will be gone in a matter of weeks because : "hur dur too hard"
End result:  less people then anticipated, endangering the game.	
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Elitists need gated content to stroke their e-peens to, it's as simple as that. WoW was able to keep a level of extremely high difficulty for the group of people who wanted to partake in it, while at the same time giving the remaining MAJORITY a VARIETY of ways to experience the content and be successful (i.e. LFR, Normal, then Heroics).
 
Also, WoW currently has over 11k viewers on twitch..........Wildstar has 14.....four-----teen. HOLY DAMN, Wildstar must be fun as all get out right? All that arbitraily difficult content must be stimulating as a mofo. (See I can stoop to yalls anectdotal reasoning too).
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(I'm a casual, I don't raid but I may in the future, and this question isn't meant to be confrontational)
 
How will a LFR feature make raids more accessible to me?  Especially in a game where the player base doesn't seem too keen on using the already available, normal LFG feature.
			
				
	Edited December 13, 2015 by beattlebilly	
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			GA is pugged all the time from what I can tell monitoring chats. It's also incredibly accessible what with how they stripped down attunement to just buying the key and then clearing dungeons. (I miss those unique little quests... could have done without the world boss part, but I actually enjoyed the Farside mission and killing the guy out in Wilderrun and the extra KV boss and whatnot. xD) Getting gear in prep for raids is also significantly easier nowadays. I wouldn't be against a built-in party finder tool a la that seen in FFXIV, but I really, really, really don't think we need multiple difficulties of the raids.	
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I don't want to know how amazingly incompitent your DPS was to fail that check :S
 
I mean, there is new, there is learning... that bad is probably "not trying"
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LFR is one thing. ..but that dont stop you pugging. ..its the lock out that is soo unforgiving for puggers.
 
You know my example. ..I felt soo left out. ..did not kill the x89 boss thing after 15 wipes. .No problem. .fun fight. 
 
Joined a pug three days later. ..This time maybe I could do it I thought. 
 
Fly up. ..hyped up. .all others inside. ..BAM. .locked out. It will Open for you in three days. .!!! Wtf. ..how is that fair. .
			
				
	Edited December 13, 2015 by styrm	
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If you haven't tried it post F2P with an appropriately leveled toon, you should. It's actually a pretty overtuned DPS check for a level 10 instance. Unless they've changed it since I've done it.
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			I've also seen some pretty bad results on that last Academy DPS check from people who're just in the appropriate level (so 10-13) either because they didn't get all their gear or are still learning their abilities. Kinda with Slyjeff on this one. Interrupts are one thing, and one that everybody should be getting into the swing of relatively easily, but Wrathbone's final attack can wipe out groups repeatedly if they aren't built for it and that's a significant newbie-breaker since "teach you how to DPS" isn't exactly in the curriculum like interrupts are.	
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I actually haven't had issues clearing it on alts post f2p. What kills groups is failing to interrupt the boss's channel, which is what 80% of the dungeon is trying to teach you to do. That or half the group dies by standing in the red circles so that there aren't enough folk up to make the dps check at the end.
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There's nothing to interrupt on the burn phase though. It's a straight up "finish him before he's done channeling the big boom". I've had a group that wiped on this fight once, but that really was becase we had a terrible stalker who did less damage than the healer (using just Quick Draw) in the entire run. 
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What, WS isn't a singleplayer game? OMG apocalypse!
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This is a major problem with not just WS, but a lot of games. Yes, you can learn after the fact and the community is VERY good about that if you find the right people. However, if the game gave a reason for players to work together while leveling? I can guarantee you that most of the complaints would go away about "hard" or "too difficult" or any of those.
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WoW was able to keep a level of extremely high difficulty for the group of people who wanted to partake in it, while at the same time giving the remaining MAJORITY a VARIETY of ways to experience the content and be successful (i.e. LFR, Normal, then Heroics).
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I think I am basically saying. Make Raiding also accesible to pugging...and by that i dont mean the way it is today. OFC pugs can raid in WS atm...they have always been able to...in teory!...but make it more a "quality of life" thing...no locking of Whole raid once you enter etc..make it vialbe to be able to pug e.g. GA With 10 different pugs one week...maybe killing a few bosses With each of them.
 
And there solution is NOT ALWAYS..MAKE FRIENDS!!...ppl can play perfectly fine without any friends. One can be friendly and contributing With random strangers too. Why should one always assume ppl guild up and make friends or Your out of here? Its hard for me to be in a guild and to raid at specific times. Why cant I raid when i have time? WOW is Perfect in this way!!! you have LFR and you have a system that tells you someone is looking for random ppl to raid normal....i cant see why WS not can have this too.
 
the attunment GONE was a VERY good thing for WS...it got me into a pug raid..but the "stone age" locking system makes pugging raids a VERY Dangerous thing to do (risking getting locked out without killing any bosses...like I was)
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To be fair, this shouldn't be happening in the first place. It's only because TT insists on implementing a archaic group finder system (to match the raid system) with no gearscore req that this is even a problem at all.
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It's clearly pointless arguing with your type, but for humor sakes I'll give it a go. I'm not claiming to know the exact reason why there are a grand total of 16 (lol more people are watching GTA 3), but I'd venture a guess that if the combat's difficulty was as enthralling and critical to this game as you describe it.........people would want to stream it or at the very least watch it.
 
All I see is a bunch of jackderps in this thread saying "if I can do it so can they", well guess what sparky..........it doesn't look that way does it? A game with this level of relative polish, art design, and generally fun gameplay should not be failing THIS HARD. People want to argue and complain about WoW, but Blizzard did their math and did it very well. The hardcore/elitists nearly always make up a very small portion of a game, in fact if you look at the #'s they released during the early xpacs about the % of players who got to experience all the content it's a bit shocking actually. This game is dying simply because people DON'T WANT TO PLAY IT, so get off your derptrain and realize there's a major problem.
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LFR is one thing. ..but that dont stop you pugging. ..its the lock out that is soo unforgiving for puggers.
 
You know my example. ..I felt soo left out. ..did not kill the x89 boss thing after 15 wipes. .No problem. .fun fight.
 
Joined a pug three days later. ..This time maybe I could do it I thought.
 
Fly up. ..hyped up. .all others inside. ..BAM. .locked out. It will Open for you in three days. .!!! Wtf. ..how is that fair. .
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As I said. .it does not have to be a LFR. .it does not have ro be easy. .it only have to be Open enough that pugs can try. ..and most likely fail...and then try again the next night with a mostly different pug. ...basically. .apply the same lock system that wow raid have currently. .
 
Like my experience. ..why lock me out for a week? I did not kill any bosses. ..
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I'm not going to go into choosing sides here because really everyone has a right to their own opinion - but I can speak for myself personally. If the game got any easier than it already is, then I would quit. Not out of spite. Not because it's a bad business choice. Not because of a tantrum. I would quit because the engaging (and that's what it is to me, not hard, but engaging) combat is what sets Wildstar apart from the crowd. I can't speak for others nor would I try to, but your post holds truth with my personal views.
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And many of us dont need for the content to be easier. .Just more accessible. .
 
And. ..as has been leaked. ..they are about to change how they do things. .details I cant remember, but I think raid boss release more often was a key word.
 
And Personally I believe that carbine will shift ws to cater more and more to ppl that only have a few hours here and there to play....
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If you haven't tried it post F2P with an appropriately leveled toon, you should. It's actually a pretty overtuned DPS check for a level 10 instance. Unless they've changed it since I've done it.
 
And you know I'm not one to desire nerfing content, but my at my last experience with it (I was healing), the group couldn't do it through several attempts. We did get it when I switched to DPS, but I was also a bit over leveled for the dhngeon.
 
A level 10 "DPS check" should be nothing more than "is everyone a live, pointing in the right direction, and actively pressing damage abilities".
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It might as well be most of the time. There's no benefit to grouping for so much of the content out there these days, and there never really was originally after the game first came out (outside of the 5+ bounties).
 
You can 100% skip dungeons, don't have to do adventures, not even shiphands. They're just....there. When leveling most people are thinking 100% DPS mode most of the time, why? Well, there's no point in going support as the game itself has no reason given for parties to form. What benefit is there? People are leveling so fast that it's just not worth the effort for many. Do you really want to level up in full support spec only? I don't think so...
 
The other issue is that the leveling Dungeons and Vet Dungeons are exactly the same, just harder. Some people may see that and just wait, they're not missing anything at all other than difficulty. If it was something different? it would make sense to run both for a lot of people. Now, I do love the fact that there's two versions of difficulty on them, but there's what, only one or two that are Veteran only? Give people a REASON to run things these. Give them story, give them different mechanics, etc. It goes a long way!
 
So, what happens then? You get people entering into content that they a) don't understand B) are poor at because they've never grouped up before and c) think is too hard because of that.
 
This is a major problem with not just WS, but a lot of games. Yes, you can learn after the fact and the community is VERY good about that if you find the right people. However, if the game gave a reason for players to work together while leveling? I can guarantee you that most of the complaints would go away about "hard" or "too difficult" or any of those.
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Pretty much this. The dichotomy that you have to either make flagship content to the exacting standards of the challenge-driven players or you have to nerf challenging content into oblivion for filthy casuals is a false dichotomy and always has been.
 
It's why I always find it so funny when the challenge-driven players howl in outrage at every nerf. The nerfs happen because the challenge-driven players insist on there only being one difficulty level, then stamp out in rage when that one difficulty level is inevitably tuned to the average player rather than the expert.
 
Who could possibly have predicted?  :rolleyes:
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GA and Vet dungeons *do* both require persistence if you are learning them and not being carried.
 
Persistence will get you everywhere in this game (even through System Daemons, apparently!)
 
This game does require more persistence than some others (for example, clearing GA in this game took us far longer than it took my guild clearing Naxx25 in WotLK), but it's also a more enjoyable experience. For laughs I recently looked up the final boss of Naxx25 on Youtube to remember what I thought was so awesome back in the day (or actually, I remember 4 horsemen being a more enjoyable fight), and none of that comes close to how fun even the most basic fights in GA are. But you do have to want it.
 
I once told one of our guildies who kept dying on SC final boss (similar to OP) "This fight has less RNG the more you do it". He actually got mad at me and said "I'm fine with a challenge, but I just can't beat the RNG!". Just the other day he told me "you were totally right- I can beat the fight most of the time now without dying!"
 
Again, the key is persistence. And the pay off is fun fights that stay fun for a long time.	
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OH man, I don't look at the forums for a weekend and missed so much....../popcorn.  
 
@whoever is in the argument for LFR or raid lockouts:
Making an ezmode raid, LFR as an example, is bad.  The reason is it's bad is how this game is implemented in the way combat is done.  Having players not playing to their full potential creates bad players.  Not learning how to dps and having correct rotations is bad.  An example of  that is I did a a dungeon and new warrior dps only did RS spam, rampage and ripsaw  When I asked why dont you use tremor or SS or BS, he commented I don't like using those abilities, they don't flow as fast as main attack and ripsaw is more dps, which is only true in pvp when players are getting healed as it was pointed out to me recently cause I'm bad and I'm sure ill get flamed for it and I should be.  I didn't have it in me to teach him the correction rotation because he didn't ask.  I'm not going to put it on me to teach someone unless they are in my guild that directly affects my playing.  Thats bad and people don't understand their class.  Instead of teaching them on how to raid and understand raidtype attacks and how to play such as WB's were suppose to show this which isn't happening, people cry for easier content.  Instead of finding out what to do to make it easier.  Like bringing 3 interupts because practically every boss has this amount and most classes can get that by using t4 interupt and another.  The content in this game is not challenging anymore that it breaks you.  It used to be, but content has been nerfed alot either by making it easier or for class power creep.  If it is, maybe should figure out why and if this game is for you.  Making content easier, and really, it's only 2 things in this entire game that some are having problems with are Vet dungeons and Raids.
 
On the raidlockouts, well, it does suck to do a boss one week, get locked to the instance than can't finish so you can't go on in the instance.  Do I think they need per boss, sure.  But there will be so so many problems with that.  Say you cleared the first 3 bosses in the raid.  Than join another the following night, but they haven't cleared the first 3, than guess what you have to do them again because your loot locked, not boss locked like it currently is.  I don't know about you, but how many would wipe constantly on the same boss after downing it the night before for NO loot chance?  I understand you want to progress, but wiping every night is not meant for pugging.  That's why you get into a guild to do that.  Raids are endgame.  Understand if you can't commit to a time, than you pug, and if you get in a bad pug that can't progress, far, well, thats the risk you take for doing that.  Look into who's running the pug.  Is it someone in dungeon loot with 0 raid loot, than you have to ask yourself, is it worth it to get locked to this group?   
 
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To be fair, this shouldn't be happening in the first place. It's only because TT insists on implementing a archaic group finder system (to match the raid system) with no gearscore req that this is even a problem at all.
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On the raidlockouts, well, it does suck to do a boss one week, get locked to the instance than can't finish so you can't go on in the instance.  Do I think they need per boss, sure.  But there will be so so many problems with that.  Say you cleared the first 3 bosses in the raid.  Than join another the following night, but they haven't cleared the first 3, than guess what you have to do them again because your loot locked, not boss locked like it currently is.  I don't know about you, but how many would wipe constantly on the same boss after downing it the night before for NO loot chance?  I understand you want to progress, but wiping every night is not meant for pugging.  That's why you get into a guild to do that.  Raids are endgame.  Understand if you can't commit to a time, than you pug, and if you get in a bad pug that can't progress, far, well, thats the risk you take for doing that.  Look into who's running the pug.  Is it someone in dungeon loot with 0 raid loot, than you have to ask yourself, is it worth it to get locked to this group?   
 
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Loot lockout can be done. WoW does it, and from what I can tell mostly without too many issues. I definitely favor it for this game. It will encourage people to get involved and not feel like you are taking a chance on a group by killing Genetic Monstrosity.
 
I think the devs have said they want to implement it, but there are challenges.
 
I'd also be interested to see what would happen if you made it so Genetic Monstrosity (nor Gravatron, nor HMM) would lock you to GA and then added them to the T3 Contract list.
 
I guess people would probably farm these guys too much- but I feel like they are easily puggable and it would be cool to motivate more people to do them.	
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OH man, I don't look at the forums for a weekend and missed so much....../popcorn.  
 
@whoever is in the argument for LFR or raid lockouts:
Making an ezmode raid, LFR as an example, is bad.  The reason is it's bad is how this game is implemented in the way combat is done.  Having players not playing to their full potential creates bad players.  Not learning how to dps and having correct rotations is bad.  Instead of finding out what to do to make it easier.  Like bringing 3 interupts because practically every boss has this amount and most classes can get that by using t4 interupt and another.  The content in this game is not challenging anymore that it breaks you.  It used to be, but content has been nerfed alot either by making it easier or for class power creep.  If it is, maybe should figure out why and if this game is for you.  Making content easier, and really, it's only 2 things in this entire game that some are having problems with are Vet dungeons and Raids.
 
If the content is to hard for you, find out why and fix it.  Ask players, read about it, find out why.  Be personally responsible for yourself and figure it out, don't expect the game to lower their standards because your's aren't good enough.  I'll be called elitist for that, but whatever, I'll call back at you and tell you stop being a lazy player and find out why it's like that and fix it.  Gear needs to be better, well, there's more than one way to obtain it.  
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You don't need to put in 6+ hours per day to be successful in vet dungeons.
 
And all the "research" you need is to check the forums, or just ask in advice chat what the best rotation is for your class.	
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You don't need to put in 6+ hours per day to be successful in vet dungeons.
 
And all the "research" you need is to check the forums, or just ask in advice chat what the best rotation is for your class.
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i think the naming of the instances is the issue.  here we have people saying the basic level 50 stuff is vet dungeons.  shame on carbine.  there are shiphands and adventures that should be run first, but sadly no one does.
 
here are my proposed changes that effect nothing.
 
ding 50
 
vet expiditions
vet adventures = dungeons
vet dungeons =  5 man raids
world bosses
raids
 
normals would be simply dungeons and 5 man raids, no vet prefix.
 
there. now the dungeons have the difficulty they should be perceived as.  if someone saw vet dungeon and then 5 man raids in a queue, they would wait on the 5 man raids.  this game is not hard.  but if you jump skip and hop your way through end game content, through no fault of your own, you will not be successful immediately because you have not made your bones, so to speak, and learned how to play the game at max level. 
 
practice dungeon suggestions and things like that are nonsense.  if you want practice go into the dungeon and practice.  just dont use pugs.  make a practice group and have at it.
 
as for lfr.  if they want to create a new easy raid for people who think they cant cut it or dont have the time fine.  make a whole new raid that is rofl stomp.  watering down the normal raids is quite an undertaking with some fights.  this game takes practice.  so do other games although to be fair some of us do not need practice most of the time.  here you almost certainly do in order to be on top of your game.	
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The runes required to be successful in dungeons are not complicated. People *think* they are too complicated because the system isn't presented well (and I'm all for changing this- in fact, I've been advocating pre-slotting runes in non-orange gear to simplify things). But if people would just stick some basic runes in, they'd be fine.
 
I've been spending some time with newer players in my dungeon learning circle, and I can tell you that a 5 min chat conversation can usually give them all the info they need to prepare for dungeons. And a quick two or three statements before boss pulls can give them what they need to be successful there too.
 
There isn't a LOT of requirement, but there is some. But again, not a 6+ hour per day requirement.	
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runes are not that bad. sure the sets and stuff are not 101 level but the gains from them are for mostly min/maxers at bis level gear.  because anything less is not worth it due to the costs involved which should be a contentious issue.  to be honest, you can throw almost any rune in your gear and it will be better than none at all.
 
and the challenge is not too great.  some of us did not breeze through the content like you guys either.  we put in the practice which took time and mastered the content.  i remember 2+ hours vet ssm (pre f2p) only to disband with no completion.  i did not rage quit but got back into queue and tried again using what i learned before.  if you want to argue about time commitment that is valid, because it takes time to get good at this game if you don't have the knack for this game off the bat.
 
me personally, i did not start raiding until about 6 months post launch.  when i first started i was bad.  lowest dps, they didnt want to take me unless there was no one else, called a dumpster player to my face and behind my back.  but you know i kept going and practicing.  now im one of the top dps in my raid group and we are pulling avatus.  practice was the key. the people who called me dumpster, did not apologize because i was, but have all told me holy crap, you got so much better.  well a few apologized.  practice and persistence pays off in this game.  if you dont enjoy putting in the time to play the game and learn, I am not sure why you even play videogames or at least anything challenging that may require some time and effort.	
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{| class="blockquote"
The runes required to be successful in dungeons are not complicated. People *think* they are too complicated because the system isn't presented well (and I'm all for changing this- in fact, I've been advocating pre-slotting runes in non-orange gear to simplify things). But if people would just stick some basic runes in, they'd be fine.
 
I've been spending some time with newer players in my dungeon learning circle, and I can tell you that a 5 min chat conversation can usually give them all the info they need to prepare for dungeons. And a quick two or three statements before boss pulls can give them what they need to be successful there too.
 
There isn't a LOT of requirement, but there is some. But again, not a 6+ hour per day requirement.
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You're falling into the trap of assuming experienced players will all be jackwagons(actually, rereading you, you seem to be suggesting that the experienced players should be jackwagons anyway because of their experience) and unwilling to help less experienced players in the game.  The experienced players make the guides that the less experienced players can research.  And there are guilds/circles that will take on and help people(SlyJeff himself has said multiple times in multiple places on these forums that he is willing to help, for example).  The less experienced player needs to take some responsibility for themselves and seek out any and all resources they can, even if it means asking in various chat channels for help from experienced players/guilds/circles.  
 
To answer "why should they?", well if you want the game to succeed and have more people to play with, that seems like a couple of decent reasons to do so.  I'm not saying every experienced player out there has to help the inexperienced, but at the very least they shouldn't be jackwagons to them either.  
			
				
	Edited December 14, 2015 by beattlebilly	
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{| class="blockquote"
....You are really hung up on that time example, so I will pose the statement to you a different way. Player X has aprox. 2hrs to play 3-4days/wk..........Player Y plays between 4-6hrs 5-7days/wk. As this game sits currently, it is incredibly difficult for Player X to come in as a new player and meet the standards that have been set by Player Y. That is largely due to the content gap that exists.
 
Now some say that Player Y needs to have patience with Player X, but why should he/she? Player Y has spent a large amount of time playing so that he can presumably move through the content as efficiently as possible, Player X is a hinderance to that. Player X is now placed in a situation where he is expected by Player Y to be both skilled and knowledgable about the game. The overall perception of this forums is that Player X should not negatively impact the experience of Player Y due to the burden of knowledge. Player X now has no other relevant content to explore outside of WB's UNLESS he spends a comparitvely large amount of his time researching and practicing for what should be entry level content..........Player X now quits out of frustration and lack of accessable content.
 
There may be some variation and exceptions to this scenario in the real world, but overall I believe that it does not fall far from reality.
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{| class="blockquote"
....You are really hung up on that time example, so I will pose the statement to you a different way. Player X has aprox. 2hrs to play 3-4days/wk..........Player Y plays between 4-6hrs 5-7days/wk. As this game sits currently, it is incredibly difficult for Player X to come in as a new player and meet the standards that have been set by Player Y. That is largely due to the content gap that exists.
 
Now some say that Player Y needs to have patience with Player X, but why should he/she? Player Y has spent a large amount of time playing so that he can presumably move through the content as efficiently as possible, Player X is a hinderance to that. Player X is now placed in a situation where he is expected by Player Y to be both skilled and knowledgable about the game. The overall perception of this forums is that Player X should not negatively impact the experience of Player Y due to the burden of knowledge. Player X now has no other relevant content to explore outside of WB's UNLESS he spends a comparitvely large amount of his time researching and practicing for what should be entry level content..........Player X now quits out of frustration and lack of accessable content.
 
There may be some variation and exceptions to this scenario in the real world, but overall I believe that it does not fall far from reality.
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{| class="blockquote"
runes are not that bad. sure the sets and stuff are not 101 level but the gains from them are for mostly min/maxers at bis level gear.  because anything less is not worth it due to the costs involved which should be a contentious issue.  to be honest, you can throw almost any rune in your gear and it will be better than none at all.
 
and the challenge is not too great.  some of us did not breeze through the content like you guys either.  we put in the practice which took time and mastered the content.  i remember 2+ hours vet ssm (pre f2p) only to disband with no completion.  i did not rage quit but got back into queue and tried again using what i learned before.  if you want to argue about time commitment that is valid, because it takes time to get good at this game if you don't have the knack for this game off the bat.
 
me personally, i did not start raiding until about 6 months post launch.  when i first started i was bad.  lowest dps, they didnt want to take me unless there was no one else, called a dumpster player to my face and behind my back.  but you know i kept going and practicing.  now im one of the top dps in my raid group and we are pulling avatus.  practice was the key. the people who called me dumpster, did not apologize because i was, but have all told me holy crap, you got so much better.  well a few apologized.  practice and persistence pays off in this game.  if you dont enjoy putting in the time to play the game and learn, I am not sure why you even play videogames or at least anything challenging that may require some time and effort.
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@mirta- Final Fantasy XIV as my understanding has bosses that are easier than the most current content but it's different.  On top of that, World Bosses are an example of the bosses, they just weren't implemented correctly imo.
 
@Foul Wind- World Bosses were meant to be the casual raids that LFR are.  The thing is, there is a jump in difficulty from vet adventures to vet dungeons, I know, but alot of the content can be done by staying out of red, and interupts and knowing your class be it any of the roles of healing/dps/tanking.  
 
@vahlen-  I'm going to say this first....LoL is the most toxic community I have ever experienced by far from the lowest beginner levels to the top.  It's a moba, so completely different than MMO, where you can just go in, do your thing, than leave as in a MMO it's about developing your character.  Imagine LoL having to develop characters and level them up constantly and not reset every match, lets see what happens than.  But honestly, how many players get flamed because they don't understand how to level or what to take as skills for this specific class.  I got ripped apart because I wasn't playing this class as a jungler but wanted to help with a lane.  I had to do a lot of research to understand a specific class and be good.  That was for one, not the 100 that are there.  I don't see LoL as an easy accessible game perse, I see it easy to play and get into but to accesible and win, I don't.  On top of that, it's PVP, not a PVE so different mindset a little.  And you can fail in that game easily but still get in and play.  Its like playing a pvp match in this game and getting rolled over and over, guess what, you won't stay long.  Comparing this game to that is not a good comparision imo.  I think some players want a quick game and MMO's don't always give that but you can.  
 
I hate what MOBA's did to online gaming.  Although, it's brilliant on what they targeted for the genre of people and the give it to me now aspect.
 
I know a player that plays for 3 1/2 hours for 3 days a week, and he's killed Avatus and did everything.  Basically raid logs.  So that person doing 2 hours 3 days a week, well, join a guild that is ok with you raiding with them for 2 hours than leaving, they are out there.  Usually your placed on the backup roster spot, but you know what, you can still get to see the raids that way.
 
Idk, maybe I don't see problems with accessibility in this game.  You can get into things, the only thing that is not easy accessible are raids/warplots (hahahaha, but that is pvp "raids").  Thats it, everything else you can easily do, its a matter if your good or not.
 
On top of that, where are people getting this current state of the game is bad?  Queue times are 5 minutes and nearly instant for tank/healer.  Thats not bad at all.  Talking about server pop?  Idk about europe, but Entity is healthy.  Ive heard warhound isn't great but there is a reason for that from what i've heard about constant griefing and making it not enjoyable to play the game.
			
				
	Edited December 14, 2015 by Orrestes	
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{| class="blockquote"
I think you are making a lot of assumptions about the expectations of "player y". Most of the vet players I know have no problem with less experienced players going at a slower pace. They aren't even a hindrance, though sometimes "player x" will complain when "player y" chooses to form a group without him.
 
There is no reason "player x" can't do dungeons. 2hrs to play 3-4 days a week? Yes, you can do a LOT in that timeframe. Basically, everything except raid, and even with that you could probably do a few GAs here or there as people need fill ins.
 
And there are people in my guild who I think play about 8 hours total per week and who are fully progressed through GA and are working on DS without being carried.
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{| class="blockquote"
Since you seem to have the notion that "this is what I've experience, so it must be what others do as well". Tell me, if this game is as accessable as you say and the playerbase is so supportive........why then is a AAA titled game which has both relatively polished gameplay and a strong art design suffering from a population barely large enough to support a single server? This all through 2 seperate launches and going F2P.
 
The only rationale I've seen put forth by defenders of this topic is "play "our" way or find a different game", well guess what? They have!........Now look where your game is at.
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{| class="blockquote"
Honestly, as someone who's been here since the early beta days, I think the NUMBER ONE REASON for WildStar's lack of popularity is ...
 
IT'S NOT WORLD OF WARCRAFT
 
Yup. It plays differently. The game systems are different. There is a learning curve. The dev team is smaller and doesn't work as fast. The decade of rough edges that WoW has had to grind off, WildStar has had a tenth (or less) of that.
 
Basically, at some point during WildStar's production, the MMO landscape (and MMO Player Base!) changed completely. The landscape became homogeneous in it's adherence to "Whatever WoW is doing" and the player base became (on one hand) older and more time-constrained and (on the other) younger and more entitled, having had grown up playing smoothed out games.
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{| class="blockquote"
There's meritt to that statement, completely full action combat in an MMO is certainly out of the norm. Yet, why have games like GW2 and ESO managed to be largely successful? Eso had a very rocky start, but managed to pull itself back up and now has both a healthy game and Twitch population.
 
Wildstar's gameplay should arguably be even more engaging that the latter 2, so why aren't people partaking in it? I stated what I thought the reasons were, could they be wrong? Sure.............but that's a hell of a lot better than the toolbox responses of "get good", "do research".
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{| class="blockquote"
you seem to have the notion that "this is what I've experience, so it must be what others do as well".
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{| class="blockquote"
Not sure why you think that. I actually listen to a lot of people recount their experiences, and I also have interacted with many different types in my year and a half on nexus.
 
 
There's a lot of stuff they can tweak. The cash shop. Runes. Incentives. Rewards. Grinds. Whatever- but they above is stuff they must not touch, or it's just not the same game anymore. If someone doesn't like that stuff, well then they ARE better off finding a different game. And if a game with those features at its soul isn't viable, it's probably better for everyone concerned for a new game to emerge than to try and change this one fundamentally away from what it is.
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			change is not always a good thing you know	
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{| class="blockquote"
I was perhaps a bit more direct in that first staement than what I had intended. That being said, it's the resistance to change that bothers me with this community. All of what you mentioned are things they can change/alter or improve, because what defines this game in this genre is it's COMBAT. Combat is at the heart of everything in this game, so everything else can be altered in order to attract the population needed to support this game.
 
If however it is the combat style itself (which doubt), then now........you could not change it without fundimentally altering was WS is. This is not me being negative or a doomsdaysayer, I just don't see Carbine pulling out of this slump unless they make rapid changes to the way things are currently. I'd hate to see such a modern and engaging game go the way of City of Heroes just a couple years after release.
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The LFR has a huge argument against it for this game.  Multi difficulties not as much, but still there.  Adding new raids or tweaking something in the game, such as instanced world bosses is a different story.  I'm a big advocate against LFR.  It brings nothing but gimme for free attitude and that's not what Wildstar is.  Have to work for your stuff.  And LFR teaches a player nothing.  If a player can't make it in Vet dungeons, why should they be given raid loot?  The 2 difficulty of an instance is advocated against because the small raid team (think there's a group of 4 and they do other things too), doesn't have the time to develop for 2 tiers of raids.  Honestly, even if they instanced WB's with max of 20, I think people would still complain about the difficulty of them.  The fact that you wouldn't be able to stand in red and don't have to worry about it and basiclaly either dont do enough damage or heal through, and dont have to interupt and no dps checks would cause people to complain saying to hard.  
 
Runes, here's a simple explanation.........find what stats you need for your class (you should know this by leveling up your class)>go get mats to make basic runes depending on the iLvl of the piece of gear you want runes in>the first pane that pops, find the stat>make a rune>put rune into slot (there is a quest that shows you what to do), may have to reroll the slot to match the "color" of the stat.  Done.  The "sets" are more advanced runing that give you extra stats, and time required to do them may take more than the steps above.
 
ON a completely different note, I really want to try FF xiv raids just to see how "hard" they really are.  From what I've seen in videos, they look to be way easier than anything in this game.  Just like WoW, your watching addons and not the actual fight.  No RNG, just timed stage events.  Sure Wildstar has timed staged events such as x89 giving out a big bomb every x amount of seconds, but it's a RNG on who gets it, and if that person is not paying attention aka Phagemaw beginning (honestly can you say you have never wiped to someone not clicking haha I'm even guilty of it, it wouldn't click I swear), than your going to wipe.  It's hard for some to pay attention 100% for 6 minute fights and not zone out a little.	
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To those of you who want LFR (easy mode, not the group finder tool), you'd rather progress through the same raid several times instead of progressing from one raid to a different more challenging one? There is other content than raids if you don't have much time to play, dungeons. And instead of nerfing them (again) I think Carbine should make adventures more attractive somehow. Adding LFR will make dungeons and even earlier tier raids redundant. It will make players feel like they have to do it to get gear for proper raids. It's resources wasted on low quality, AFK friendly content.
 
The sorry state of the game at launch is why it failed. Adding LFR will not save the game because it wasn't the difficulty that drove the intended target audience away, people have been asking for an MMORPG with good dungeon/raid progression for years. It's got a niche, the game doesn't need WoW numbers to be successful. If the playerbase isn't able to sustain the game, if they can't attract enough new players, they can still prepare the game for a successful steam launch. Stop pretending "it's LFR or the game DIES!".	
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			For those comparing Wildstar to World of Warcraft, SWTOR, ESO, or even Guild Wars 2, the comparison is not great. Yes, they are all AAA mmo titles, but at least 3 of the latter and arguably Guild Wars as well have one thing different that makes a huge difference, an established IP with a dedicated fan base. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
The LFR has a huge argument against it for this game.  Multi difficulties not as much, but still there.  Adding new raids or tweaking something in the game, such as instanced world bosses is a different story.  I'm a big advocate against LFR.  It brings nothing but gimme for free attitude and that's not what Wildstar is.  Have to work for your stuff.  And LFR teaches a player nothing.  If a player can't make it in Vet dungeons, why should they be given raid loot?  The 2 difficulty of an instance is advocated against because the small raid team (think there's a group of 4 and they do other things too), doesn't have the time to develop for 2 tiers of raids.  Honestly, even if they instanced WB's with max of 20, I think people would still complain about the difficulty of them.  The fact that you wouldn't be able to stand in red and don't have to worry about it and basiclaly either dont do enough damage or heal through, and dont have to interupt and no dps checks would cause people to complain saying to hard.  
 
Runes, here's a simple explanation.........find what stats you need for your class (you should know this by leveling up your class)>go get mats to make basic runes depending on the iLvl of the piece of gear you want runes in>the first pane that pops, find the stat>make a rune>put rune into slot (there is a quest that shows you what to do), may have to reroll the slot to match the "color" of the stat.  Done.  The "sets" are more advanced runing that give you extra stats, and time required to do them may take more than the steps above.
 
ON a completely different note, I really want to try FF xiv raids just to see how "hard" they really are.  From what I've seen in videos, they look to be way easier than anything in this game.  Just like WoW, your watching addons and not the actual fight.  No RNG, just timed stage events.  Sure Wildstar has timed staged events such as x89 giving out a big bomb every x amount of seconds, but it's a RNG on who gets it, and if that person is not paying attention aka Phagemaw beginning (honestly can you say you have never wiped to someone not clicking haha I'm even guilty of it, it wouldn't click I swear), than your going to wipe.  It's hard for some to pay attention 100% for 6 minute fights and not zone out a little.
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{| class="blockquote"
For those comparing Wildstar to World of Warcraft, SWTOR, ESO, or even Guild Wars 2, the comparison is not great. Yes, they are all AAA mmo titles, but at least 3 of the latter and arguably Guild Wars as well have one thing different that makes a huge difference, an established IP with a dedicated fan base. 
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{| class="blockquote"
SWTOR and ESO (to an extent) both failed pretty hard upon their initial release. SWTOR arguably failed hard than Wildstars 2 combined launches...........yet there it sits with a healthy playerbase. It does so because it adapted (however slowly) to the needs of the genre. The same goes for all of those MMO's you listed. 
 
Wildstar targeted the hardcore audience with a level of difficulty and burden of knowledge that greatly surpasses anything on the current market. This implementation of this philosophy we know has failed, plain and simple. So how then does Wildstar adapt it's position and philosophy to both keep what was unique about it, while also opening it to players who enjoy those other MMO's that were listed?
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{| class="blockquote"
change is not always a good thing you know
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{| class="blockquote"
It's not features that will put this game on the map at this point. It's reminding people it's still here and relevant. Or convincing them.
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{| class="blockquote"
ON a completely different note, I really want to try FF xiv raids just to see how "hard" they really are.  From what I've seen in videos, they look to be way easier than anything in this game.  Just like WoW, your watching addons and not the actual fight.  No RNG, just timed stage events.  Sure Wildstar has timed staged events such as x89 giving out a big bomb every x amount of seconds, but it's a RNG on who gets it, and if that person is not paying attention aka Phagemaw beginning (honestly can you say you have never wiped to someone not clicking haha I'm even guilty of it, it wouldn't click I swear), than your going to wipe.  It's hard for some to pay attention 100% for 6 minute fights and not zone out a little.
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{| class="blockquote"
For those comparing Wildstar to World of Warcraft, SWTOR, ESO, or even Guild Wars 2, the comparison is not great. Yes, they are all AAA mmo titles, but at least 3 of the latter and arguably Guild Wars as well have one thing different that makes a huge difference, an established IP with a dedicated fan base. 
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{| class="blockquote"
And how do you propose that takes place when the high time/effort ceiling that is placed in front of them compared to ALL the other available options on the market dissuades them from doing so?
 
I LOVE difficulty, Heroics were the reason I played WoW throughout Wotlk and Cata. However, that does not mean I am blind to the problems that result from an imbalance in game difficulty and accessibility. Large IP's are not as relevant to success as you make them out to be. Riot was a freakin startup company for gosh sakes, Path of Exile was as well........different genre's yes, but the premise is still the same. "If a game is good and it is accessible, it will succeed"............Twitch, Youtube, etc.....will make sure that it has a strong enough population to exist.
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{| class="blockquote"
... Star Wars could make an exact clone of WoW and people would play it because Star Wars ...
 
 
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{| class="blockquote"
Uh.
 
Um.
 
Someone else tell him.
 
 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
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Yes the WS Composer is great...but wow Music is also steller..but its not their own is it? (it was probably expensive as F...)
 
WS has housing, wow dont so that that. And many ppl incl myself dont even want housing in the first place...but i dont mind that games have them..i just dont need them...
 
But..one of you fellows mentioned that the devs wanted to look into accessability of raiding..looking at Lock.out system etc..THAT is all we need to know realy.....yes..it takes a bit of time to implement, BUT myself (and others) want what the devs want:) :)
 
There is one thing i would like to mention...i saw a video from wow legion gamplay today..its on twitter...wow New combat animations...it looked Fantastic and tbo they beat ws's animation down the drain....To bad for WS...but also good that WOW finaly see that they need to always Upgrade Graphics and animations to meet modern day standards:)
			
				
	Edited December 14, 2015 by styrm	
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{| class="blockquote"
Ahaha. Fair enough. But it *is* getting played, and I don't know that it offers anything today vastly different from WoW.
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{| class="blockquote"
They also have a few other really neat offerings like BBQ ribs (adventures), but the portions are really too small to make them worth getting, so no one ever does. The appetizers (expeditions) are great, but most people don't go to a restaurant for the appetizers.
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Look at WoW's default Auction House today and look at ours. No comparison in functionality. WoW beats WildStar by a huge gulf.
 
I disagree. CX is a huge improvement for buying/selling certain items. I always had to use AH addons to make it useable in WoW, but maybe they improved it in WOD.
 
Look at WoW's pets. I mean, the little cheesy mini-game that so many people love. Our pets ... do ... what, exactly?
 
Our pets are not Pokemon, I agree. However, I'm not sure that's a good focus for developer energy yet.
 
Look at WoW's ease of progression, then look here. Same with it's use of gear score to mitigate players ending up in content they can't possibly defeat.
 
This. This is biggest thing WoW has IMHO. LFR and gating with some form of gear requirement would do wonders for WS. People click "random vet" as soon as they ding 50 and get disheartened when Redmoon hands them their ass. 
 
And that's just a couple things right off my head. Look at the multiple leveling zones. Look at the ease of their tradeskills. Compare the shared bank space, Alt-friendliness and hell, pick a game system or feature the games have in common. They've had over a decade to perfect it. 
 
The decade thing is the difference, and it's surprising some of the stuff that WS hasn't copied. Certainly some alt-friendliness wouldn't go amiss. Even tabards for rep or something. 
 
Still, WoW's core mechanic (combat) isn't a patch on WS, and that's why I'm here. WS boss fights are terrific. I described it to my friends even when in the beta as 5-man raiding.
 
Otherwise, yeah. We're not as popular mostly because they do almost everything better.
 
Not entirely. We're not as popular because we haven't had a large playerbase for 10 years. There's a point where success breeds more success. Wow hit that sweet spot, and have maintained it. It's much easier to build awesome things into your game when you're rolling in capital.	
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			The dribble in this thread is on point 10/10 	
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{| class="blockquote"
The dribble in this thread is on point 10/10 
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{| class="blockquote"
Oh look, this chracter is back.........at least your tag is an accurate depiction of your contribution. Nothing like the elitist few trying to disenfranchise the majority. Crawl back into your hole and stop trying to derail a thread where adults are having a conversation.
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"Look at WoW"
 
Aww, really? Are we back to comparing WildStar to a 10 year old game?
 
Even without looking at other games, I'm sure the devs here have a list of things they loved to implement if they had unlimited funds and time.
 
If the things that WildStar does right don't outweigh the (legitimate) issues the game still has, you can't be helped here, except to maybe link you the next patch list for you to see if your pet peeve got addressed. But if you think pet pokemon battles are what WildStar really needs to succeed you can @#$%&@ and *{@+!#$+, and also $@#!#!@$%.
 
Until then, you can always go and play WoW. Soon, Blizz will copy the most popular new features and innovations of WildStar into their game, and you won't even miss us anymore.	
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Bad player is bad.
 
WoW distorts people's self skill level assessment. People who are good at wow think they are good at mmo's and games in general. This is false and they don't learn any better until they try to play a game which requires skill, like Wildstar.
 
This is what most of your "Wildstar is too hard." Is coming from.	
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I've a feeling that after the China launch of Wildstar as well as a theorized steam release will make this game flourish and see its full potential. Until then, we're going to be in a living but not thriving state. That's okay - all it has to do is live until those markers are met. With the revenue, I certainly hope and assume they will go from a bare minimum dev crew to a full team to push that content.
Right now, it's unlikely they'll make anymore sweeping changes to systems or brand new things beyond more content of the same branch (raids and BGs.)	
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{| class="blockquote"
"Look at WoW"
 
Aww, really? Are we back to comparing WildStar to a 10 year old game?
 
Even without looking at other games, I'm sure the devs here have a list of things they loved to implement if they had unlimited funds and time.
 
If the things that WildStar does right don't outweigh the (legitimate) issues the game still has, you can't be helped here, except to maybe link you the next patch list for you to see if your pet peeve got addressed. But if you think pet pokemon battles are what WildStar really needs to succeed you can @#$%&@ and *{@+!#$+, and also $@#!#!@$%.
 
Until then, you can always go and play WoW. Soon, Blizz will copy the most popular new features and innovations of WildStar into their game, and you won't even miss us anymore.
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Look at WoW's ease of progression, then look here. Same with it's use of gear score to mitigate players ending up in content they can't possibly defeat.
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I will respectfully disagree with attunement being gone is good.  I want silver attunement back.  There are too many scrubs in raids nowadays.
 
But ultimately
 
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE FRIENDS WHY ARE YOU PLAYING AN MMO!?!?!!?!?!?!?!??!?!? *severely confused*
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Bad player is bad.
 
WoW distorts people's self skill level assessment. People who are good at wow think they are good at mmo's and games in general. This is false and they don't learn any better until they try to play a game which requires skill, like Wildstar.
 
This is what most of your "Wildstar is too hard." Is coming from.
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*Sigh* So tired of this. If someone is looking for a game fundamentally different than what WS is, then yes, the probably should find a different game. That's not rude. It's just reality. However, WS has a lot to offer a lot of different people, and it isn't all just the hardcore.
 
WS can't please everyone all the time, but they do have a lot of options. But I think a lot of players, when they encounter a frustration, would prefer to change their environment rather than deal with it. I mean, that's their choice, but I feel like a lot of people miss out. If you like the core aspects of the game, it's worth putting up with a few negatives. I didn't stop playing when Malgrave Trail was required for attunment, even though I hated that place.
 
I think the main message from a lot of the vet players is, if you want to play WS, there are a few fundamental things that make it what it is. Action combat. Multi layered boss encounters with multiple mechanics to learn. Great housing. Humor and a presentation that doesn't take itself seriously.
 
There's a lot of stuff they can tweak. The cash shop. Runes. Incentives. Rewards. Grinds. Whatever- but they above is stuff they must not touch, or it's just not the same game anymore. If someone doesn't like that stuff, well then they ARE better off finding a different game. And if a game with those features at its soul isn't viable, it's probably better for everyone concerned for a new game to emerge than to try and change this one fundamentally away from what it is.
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			You know what I'm tired of?  People saying that it's because of us casuals that the game needs easier versions of its content.  Just because a person is a casual player doesn't mean they can't play the game at it's current difficulty.  And I'm pretty sure that there are casuals engaging in the "hardcore" aspects of the game.  Casual =/= needs easier content.  	
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It's been discussed by Carbine devs - but also something that has been mentioned by other devs of other games in the past - that adding multiple difficulties takes a lot of development time and is very similar to creating an entirely new instance. No, you don't have to create new art assets, but tuning and adjusting the fight is no simple task. I would much rather they spend their development time on creating actually new content, than having to spend a chunk of it on working up a gutted version for players who need something easier.
 
We've already got challenges for all walk. There's dailies and shiphands and world bosses for folk who can't get groups together or can only handle basic stuff. There's adventures for some easy group content and normal mode dungeons to introduce you to things seen in vets. The veteran dungeons fill a fantastic niche of being challenging without requiring a large group - something I've yearned for for so, so long. And the raids themselves have both an "entry-level" one and two "knock your pants off" ones. All we need is more added to each category.
 
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You know what I'm tired of?  People saying that it's because of us casuals that the game needs easier versions of its content.  Just because a person is a casual player doesn't mean they can't play the game at it's current difficulty.  And I'm pretty sure that there are casuals engaging in the "hardcore" aspects of the game.  Casual =/= needs easier content.  
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			Has anybody thought about the possibility of an "ez mode" or "casual server" where you pretty much can't die and everything is free?	
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Bad player is bad.
 
WoW distorts people's self skill level assessment. People who are good at wow think they are good at mmo's and games in general. This is false and they don't learn any better until they try to play a game which requires skill, like Wildstar.
 
This is what most of your "Wildstar is too hard." Is coming from.
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That was so insightful, please educate me on how you were able to ascertain such a stunningly accurate assessment of millions of players. I honestly would love to know so I that might utilize the technique for my thesis.
 
I'd wager the people making comments about WoW's difficult probably failed to clear more than a couple Heroic fights (if any), let alone the new Mythic versions......but I digress. Nobody wants to take your coveted elitist slurpstick from you baby, people only want to see this game succeed and to do that it means making changes. I don't think there is any single answer to solving WS's problems, but I think making content more accessible or at the very least FEEL more accessible is the way to start. If I had to venture a wild guess what else might be helpful, I'd probably look towards expanding the purpose and unique qualities of housing in the game.
 
Although, who needs solutions and feedback! Lets act like blathering fools and spot derogatory remarks towards other players! ufaurfhuuur.......duuur git good huur.
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Making it easier/smaller != making it better.
Having a tool to organize groups for raids? By all means, implement it and bring it out.
A LFR version of everything, or dumbing stuff down because "hur durr, it's too hard to get in", please go back to HKO, WoW or another MMO.
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You know what I'm tired of?
 
I'm tired of players who would rather see the game go down in flames than allow the existence of less difficult versions of the full range of content that casual players could participate in, even if more challenging versions of content remained intact in all their hardcore glory and remained the sole source of the best rewards in the game.
 
I'm tired of people who are so intellectually dishonest that they seriously try to defend toxic comments like "go play some other game" as if somehow it isn't a thinly-veiled "GTFO" but is instead helpful advice.
 
I'm tired of people so incredibly self-centered that they think it would be "better for everyone concerned" if the entire game studio were shut down, everyone in it lost their jobs, and everyone currently playing the game were forced out by server shutdowns than it would be for the game to have an inclusive rather than exclusive endgame design.
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