100230-frustration-and-the-brick-wall

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I was on chat last night talking with one of our guild leaders and we are beside ourselves with confusion as to why we are loosing people left and right in this game. The possible thoughts we had as to why this is happening are the following:
 
1. There is little sense of accomplishment. Meaning if you only have 1.5 hours to play this game after a full day of work, you're lucky if you level even once.
2. Having the same starter zone for multiple alts is a grind. 
3. Having to wait on other guildies because of problem 1 is causing frustration for those at faster paces.
4. The website that searches for gear equivalent to wow armory is very cumbersome. The sorts are frustrating and is not that easy to quickly find a world drop that you might want and go search for.
5. Because the game at least for dominion side is loosing people at an increasing pace, the very fabric of he game which is centered around social grouping and game play is at risk.
6. Playing dominion on some servers is dead (Orian). So trying to log in and group with people is become increasingly difficult. This puts most of us wo only have 1.5 hours to play at even greater risk.
 
 
Personally I have leveled almost every class to the teens and only one to lvl 20. To me the brick wall seems to be here. I'm unable to enjoy making or getting through the grind as I have had other MMO's. I really do think when it comes down to it, it becomes an easy equation of time spent verses fun factor. I know the game is suppose to be more hard core, but I don't feel people really in the end want the amount of work required to get there. In comparison, in the same period of time if I play wow for 1.5 hours I can do an entire dungeon, jump on an a new alt lvl him to lvl 5, jump off then back to my main, farm some gold, then log back off and still have time to accomplish some BG's for pvp. I think it really comes down to the sense of accomplishment.
 
After some discussion with others and a few that have lvl 50's already this seems to be the only reasons we can think of.	
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Can do up to 3 levels / hour if playing correctly	
There is alternative zone, but yes, 2 zones too little.	Tried mentoring and helping them out?	You won't find a world drop "quickly"	Correct, but this dominion bleeding is server specific	Really server based. Chua sorry if applies to yours
Chua understand problem, but leveling is not so much of grind as projected.
Really come down to finding activity that makes fun. Chua think is having bad luck with dungeons and grouping for content.
Chua not agree with time projection though. 1.5h? Can level alt to level 10 easily in WildStar.
Dungeon should not take that long either. Only if entire group do for first time.	
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Can do up to 3 levels / hour if playing correctly	
There is alternative zone, but yes, 2 zones too little.	Tried mentoring and helping them out?	You won't find a world drop "quickly"	Correct, but this dominion bleeding is server specific	Really server based. Chua sorry if applies to yours
Chua understand problem, but leveling is not so much of grind as projected.
Really come down to finding activity that makes fun. Chua think is having bad luck with dungeons and grouping for content.
Chua not agree with time projection though. 1.5h? Can level alt to level 10 easily in WildStar.
Dungeon should not take that long either. Only if entire group do for first time.
 
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Correct, but this dominion bleeding is server specific	
Really server based. Chua sorry if applies to yours
 
 
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I think you may be correct on lvling 1-10 in 1.5 hours, but when you are up at simply lvl 15 heading north I think this is where things seem to slow down drastically.
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Are these people not telling you and discussing why they are leaving?
 
Or are these "guildies" the ones that you invited sight unseen without talking to in the first place?	
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Are these people not telling you and discussing why they are leaving?
 
Or are these "guildies" the ones that you invited sight unseen without talking to in the first place?
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			I was under the impression that on all servers Dominion has a small population.  Not saying they are dead on all servers.. but that compared to Exiles there fewer Dominion players.	
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I was on chat last night talking with one of our guild leaders and we are beside ourselves with confusion as to why we are loosing people left and right in this game. The possible thoughts we had as to why this is happening are the following:
 
1. There is little sense of accomplishment. Meaning if you only have 1.5 hours to play this game after a full day of work, you're lucky if you level even once.
2. Having the same starter zone for multiple alts is a grind. 
3. Having to wait on other guildies because of problem 1 is causing frustration for those at faster paces.
4. The website that searches for gear equivalent to wow armory is very cumbersome. The sorts are frustrating and is not that easy to quickly find a world drop that you might want and go search for.
5. Because the game at least for dominion side is loosing people at an increasing pace, the very fabric of he game which is centered around social grouping and game play is at risk.
6. Playing dominion on some servers is dead (Orian). So trying to log in and group with people is become increasingly difficult. This puts most of us wo only have 1.5 hours to play at even greater risk.
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I was on chat last night talking with one of our guild leaders and we are beside ourselves with confusion as to why we are loosing people left and right in this game. The possible thoughts we had as to why this is happening are the following:
 
1. There is little sense of accomplishment. Meaning if you only have 1.5 hours to play this game after a full day of work, you're lucky if you level even once.
2. Having the same starter zone for multiple alts is a grind. 
3. Having to wait on other guildies because of problem 1 is causing frustration for those at faster paces.
4. The website that searches for gear equivalent to wow armory is very cumbersome. The sorts are frustrating and is not that easy to quickly find a world drop that you might want and go search for.
5. Because the game at least for dominion side is loosing people at an increasing pace, the very fabric of he game which is centered around social grouping and game play is at risk.
6. Playing dominion on some servers is dead (Orian). So trying to log in and group with people is become increasingly difficult. This puts most of us wo only have 1.5 hours to play at even greater risk.
 
 
Personally I have leveled almost every class to the teens and only one to lvl 20. To me the brick wall seems to be here. I'm unable to enjoy making or getting through the grind as I have had other MMO's. I really do think when it comes down to it, it becomes an easy equation of time spent verses fun factor. I know the game is suppose to be more hard core, but I don't feel people really in the end want the amount of work required to get there. In comparison, in the same period of time if I play wow for 1.5 hours I can do an entire dungeon, jump on an a new alt lvl him to lvl 5, jump off then back to my main, farm some gold, then log back off and still have time to accomplish some BG's for pvp. I think it really comes down to the sense of accomplishment.
 
After some discussion with others and a few that have lvl 50's already this seems to be the only reasons we can think of.
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I was on chat last night talking with one of our guild leaders and we are beside ourselves with confusion as to why we are loosing people left and right in this game. The possible thoughts we had as to why this is happening are the following:
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Well thats the problem with the traditional server structure.  If you happen to find yourselves on one of the dying sides/servers, through no fault of your own.  There isnt much you can do in that case except re-roll or pay extra for a transfer, and trying to keep a guild intact through that is virtually impossible.  Many people dont want to level all over again (especially without a max level alt feeding them money and other supplies), and many people dont want/cant pay for a transfer, doubly so if they have multiple characters they like.  That further breaks people desire to play, since they've just seen something that they've put alot of work in to build, crumble.
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1. There is little sense of accomplishment. Meaning if you only have 1.5 hours to play this game after a full day of work, you're lucky if you level even once.
3. Having to wait on other guildies because of problem 1 is causing frustration for those at faster paces.
4. The website that searches for gear equivalent to wow armory is very cumbersome. The sorts are frustrating and is not that easy to quickly find a world drop that you might want and go search for.
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I dont really understand, this is kind of personal issues. You get what you put into it, If you can only allocate 1.5 hours a day you just need to use your time wisely and not waste it. Having to wait on guild because of number 1 is your guilds problem and your problem, that has nothing to do with carbine, its your choice to wait for them and its their schedule providing them play so little. A search engine makes makes you hit a brick wall? -_-
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			You are trying to tell us the brickwall is level 20? The majority of people here are likely level 50 already. You shoukd seriously consider quitting though. Getting your attunement is no walk in the park and MuCH harder then level 20	
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Carbine is a bit of the problem, since the fun endgame takes a lot of time.
However a bit does fall to the player(Even though life hits you with a curveball).
It is ahrd to get maximum enjoyment out of Wildstar with only 1-2 hours per day or every other day.
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I think you may be correct on lvling 1-10 in 1.5 hours, but when you are up at simply lvl 15 heading north I think this is where things seem to slow down drastically.
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It's probably the slowest from 14 to 30. The zone quests are just grindy and far apart, with no Shiphand to really give you quick level boosts. This is where I halt most of my alts. The ones that get past it tend to end up level 50 within a week.
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			There are quest chains in this game?  News to me.  Got a couple lvl 50 characters and did beta.  Thought it was all "kill X of this", "click X of this", "push T X amount of times".  Super progression feeling.  I read every word of why 10 of something had to die each time.  And adding a new table to my plot..  mind blown each time I do it. I'm always like "Hey guys! You won't believe what I just accomplished!  Another table!"  Or when I get a new brown dye.. progression.	
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I have to agree with the OP mostly. Leveling and everything in game feels great and fun.. up until you reach tier 2 crafting items and around lvl 25 in character progression. From that point on the game just feels so so slow. you progress just seems to feel like you hit a wind wall that is blowing you back twos steps for every three you take.
 
Now i think dominion have less of issue with leveling after 25 or so because i found winning BG's is the best way to level after 25. But if you play on Exiles its really rough to win BG's. Just simply because i find that Dominion seems to have the better skilled players on their side in general.
 
 
But yes to me. You can tell that the higher ups at carbine finally rush this product to market. Because just playing the game you see also the awesome system and things to do. They seem to fine at lower level. But they clearly did not test anything past around level 25 or tier 2. They put in the basic systems but didn't polish them out at past the point.
 
It's sad but them releasing this game early i think is going to kill it. But then again they had to release it sometime and it has been in develope for years so you can't blame carbine for not wanting to wait another 5-6 months for everything from basically mid- end game to polished.	
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Specially the 20-25, man whitevale is a real pain. Out of all the zones I hate Whitevale the most lol.
Farside however makes up for the wait!
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			Lethality posts more than Lemurian and that bums me out.	
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Lethality posts more than Lemurian and that bums me out.
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			He has some valid points. White Knights are so quick to get defensive or angry like he's slapping their grandma.	
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			Inb4 lock.	
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Inb4 lock.
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He has some valid points. White Knights are so quick to get defensive of angry like he's slapping their grandma.
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			Yes, there is a semi-brick wall for alts at 22. I'm also feeling that just slightly. I do have a 23 and 26 but prefer to just dabble in other stuff at the moment.	
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			I think people need to start thinking outside the box.  There's plenty to do in the game, if you get bored leveling, work on crafting, housing, challenges, etc..., then get back to leveling.  That's what I do :D	
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Chua did on average 2 levels / hour till 50.
Really comes down to finding right level path with quests.
Also skip quests of lower level, not worth the time unless level not high enough for next zone.
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Maybe the problem is with your guild atmosphere. We have a lot of people that have been level 50 for quite some time, some of them are even 2/4 in the Vet Dungeons. We are just scratching the surface of the Vet Dungeons now and they are still with us. Why? I'd like to think that it is because we have a great atmosphere in the guild. We recruit the people, not the characters. We hang out with guildies of all levels and help them do whatever they need/want.
 
Basically, we play the game to play the game and hang with good people. Everyone seems to be enjoying themselves and we have only lost 1 or 2 people (they were far ahead of our curve to start with so it was kind of expected).
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Out of curiosity, did you do all your levels with the rested buffs or did you power all the way to 50 at the start?
Because IIRC the first person to hit 50 did it in slightly over 24 hours (I want to say maybe 27 hours? or something along those lines), so forgive me if I seem a bit skeptical (unless you were close to first, in which case, grats :> )
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			On the topic of alternate leveling zones... I really wish there were more options once you got beyond the starter zones. :S That was one thing that made alt-ing in WoW quite enjoyable: I had entirely different continents to play around with. I've always been a bit disappointed in the MMOs that have come later in how stingy they are on zones.	
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According to many posters endgame is very limited, there's nothing to do, they're bored and quitting the game, so why the rush to get to 50 ?
Part of what makes an MMO what it is, is the journey, the destination is an extra reward, game is new, as it matures so will the content at cap level increase.
Problems with Guildies ? That's your problem, not the games'. find another guild that's more suited to your gameplay style and requirements,
Starter zone is a none issue really, if you're taking 1.5 hours to complete it on an alt then you're doing something wrong.
The website you mention, never heard of it, must be a 3rd party thing, want something better ? make one yourself, But why should Wildstar have an equivelent anything to WoW ?
It seems to me that the real issue is your expectations of the game, you're looking for it to be WoW, alonf with all the trimmings, and it isn't.
Play the game as you find it, stop comparing it to something else, and get over any sense of entitlement you may have, then you may start enjoying the game more	
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On the topic of alternate leveling zones... I really wish there were more options once you got beyond the starter zones. :S That was one thing that made alt-ing in WoW quite enjoyable: I had entirely different continents to play around with. I've always been a bit disappointed in the MMOs that have come later in how stingy they are on zones.
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			I tried Dominion and while i liked the characters - the whole story and back history is a pure turn off.  Religion equates to zero for me and should have been left out of the game.  If not for that one stupid factor I may still be playing dominion.  Too late to change that - or is it?  Watching humans burn in scientific experiments was also off putting - not sure how that was cool dominion.  When I see players bail on the Dominion - i think - culture/history is just too lame.  It should simply have been a military conquest to bring order.  I see things there that people in real life hate seeing in the news and avoid.  The Dominion story and history has to change or else you will not see anyone playing on that side - at least not nearly as many that play on the Exile where none of that exists.	
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Are these people not telling you and discussing why they are leaving?
 
Or are these "guildies" the ones that you invited sight unseen without talking to in the first place?
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While I disapprove on specific points stated as reasons people might want to quit the game, I understand where cctman is coming from. The quietness suggests that there are fewer players now than there was a month ago. But the people who are still playing have good reasons to stick around.
 
My highest level character is a lvl 31 Dominion Medic and that "brick wall" for me is the combat difficulty. I haven't done a lot of reading on combat mechanics, only read through the leveling/build guide. The quests are a challenge, without even doing the timed challenges. It all takes a lot of time between the quests, the crafting and of course, housing. I'm leaning more towards the recreational aspects of the game (redundant, ironic, is it?) because I'm feeling a bit too "casual" now when frustration gets the better of me when dying repeatedly on my own. 
 
Personally, grouping up is complicated due to my weird work hours. But I still enjoy Wildstar, why? It's sci-fi'ish, it's pretty, my characters look awesome even at low levels, and I love house designing/decorating. I'm not going to bother with the endgame, or leveling up to 50 because it's personal. I still get to socialize, which is why I like playing on a RP server.
 
I think this game has something for everyone if we allow ourselves to find what we like about it. 	
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that piece of gear you have been chasing for a month just got 10x harder to get? -rand(0,300000) accounts.
 
i agree completely with their reasoning .. but perception is everything.
 
no progression from faceroll advs to bonecrushing dungeons? -rand(0,300000) accounts.
 
only way to pvp is to get steamrolled by 1800s for a month or so? -rand(0,300000) accounts.
 
great game, great concepts, a few particularly horrible bits of implementation.
 
there are also far too many telegraphs (both in and out of dungeons) that fire off in 0.5 seconds and take 1/2 of your health. I dont want them to nerf content, but ... they have to be realistic too.	
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Itemization is a crapshoot. A lot of players who are not casual nor hardcore hit a wall, where the game becomes more of a chore then fun.
Layers of RNG drive people away because it isn't fun to grind over and over and over for one piece of loot you want/need.
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			For the record, I think it's all fixable. They just need to hurry up and fix it before they lose too many more folks. :\	
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According to many posters endgame is very limited, there's nothing to do, they're bored and quitting the game, so why the rush to get to 50 ?
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On the topic of alternate leveling zones... I really wish there were more options once you got beyond the starter zones. :S That was one thing that made alt-ing in WoW quite enjoyable: I had entirely different continents to play around with. I've always been a bit disappointed in the MMOs that have come later in how stingy they are on zones.
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I think too many people are focusing on the destination and not the journey.  Same with gear, most people just want that first gear drop to be the perfect gear that has all the rune slots on it that they want.  Doesn't always work out that way, it should not be frustrating, you take what you get and keep looking for better down the road.  The journey can be fun but Warcraft spoiled so many people by making the destination so easy to attain. 
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Yes and no.
 
WoW made it easy to get epics, but the truth is most of those epics sucked. However, no one seemed to notice since they only paid attention to the color, not the quality.
 
I don't pretend to understand why a player would stick around and do nothing but LFR for gear, but WoW makes millions off of people who want to do exactly that and those millions have gone into developing tons of hardcore content over the years.
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We've lost a fair chunk of people from our guild as well, and they don't really "leave" so much as just never log in again.
 
It's sad because a lot of them were cool folks, too...
 
I think a lot of it comes from the "endgame" involving nothing but getting attuned. PvP isn't in the best of places right now and you basically need a perfect group to get silver on vets.
 
If neither of these options appeal to you, well, you're basically SoL at this point...
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On the topic of alternate leveling zones... I really wish there were more options once you got beyond the starter zones. :S That was one thing that made alt-ing in WoW quite enjoyable: I had entirely different continents to play around with. I've always been a bit disappointed in the MMOs that have come later in how stingy they are on zones.
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How long do those players that only LFR stick around, though? That's the metric I'd like to see (but they'll probably never tell us :< )
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I don't pretend to understand why a player would stick around and do nothing but LFR for gear, but WoW makes millions off of people who want to do exactly that and those millions have gone into developing tons of hardcore content over the years.
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oh the joys of posting on the forums bc patcher is broken and i cant log in....
 
anyway, yeah i have to agree, as much as i initially loved the idea of this game being challenging at the topend rather than wow-like easymode, there needs to be some kind of bridge from easy solo questing to vet dungeons that are crazy hard for most players (other than 4 vet adventures that get really old, really fast)
 
i am almost fully attuned for raiding and have done all the vet dungeons, but i know alot of good gamers who have raided topend mmo gaming for years who cant get past the vet dungeons...not for lack of awareness or knowing what to do, but simply bc their machine isnt fast enough to get the fraction of a second reaction time necessary, or they themselves arent quite that hand-eye coordinated enough to get the job done...before you say it, yes i know "topend raiding isnt for everyone", fair enough, but a game cant be sustained by only the top 1% of players (ask anyone who played EQ during its decline when the devs catered everythign to the top 1%)
 
anyway, just saying there needs to be something more at level 50 than 2 zones of dailies, 4 vet adventures, and the malgrave events for those who are not part of the top 1%.......bc everyone not in a top 1% guild is seeing people leaving the game in droves, and the game playerbase cant be sustained like this...and i really do enjoy the game and want to see it succeed
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			Solution: play solo.	
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I was on chat last night talking with one of our guild leaders and we are beside ourselves with confusion as to why we are loosing people left and right in this game. The possible thoughts we had as to why this is happening are the following:
 
1. There is little sense of accomplishment. Meaning if you only have 1.5 hours to play this game after a full day of work, you're lucky if you level even once.
 
You can level a character to 50 within 24 hours if you know what you're doing. Therefore 1.5 hours should gain you a lot of levels, if you level only once you should check your leveling style/path.
 
2. Having the same starter zone for multiple alts is a grind. 
 
It's not the same starter zone you just picked the zone yourself. At every end of the "noob" Island you have 2 options and can pick 2 different zones. Try the other one next time. 
 
3. Having to wait on other guildies because of problem 1 is causing frustration for those at faster paces.
 
Join a faction with your needs and speed. Waiting or carrying guildies shouldn't be your job nor should you waste your time with  them. 
 
4. The website that searches for gear equivalent to wow armory is very cumbersome. The sorts are frustrating and is not that easy to quickly find a world drop that you might want and go search for.
 
Granted the page could use an update but it isn't that bad tbh. 
 
5. Because the game at least for dominion side is loosing people at an increasing pace, the very fabric of he game which is centered around social grouping and game play is at risk.
 
Must be your server because my server has a lot of dominions and it doesn't look like one of them is quitting soon lol
 
 
6. Playing dominion on some servers is dead (Orian). So trying to log in and group with people is become increasingly difficult. This puts most of us wo only have 1.5 hours to play at even greater risk.
 
Form a circle of people that have the same interests etc. Don't sit infront of the AH and spam the zone chat you won't get a positive response most of the time
 
Personally I have leveled almost every class to the teens and only one to lvl 20. To me the brick wall seems to be here. I'm unable to enjoy making or getting through the grind as I have had other MMO's. I really do think when it comes down to it, it becomes an easy equation of time spent verses fun factor. I know the game is suppose to be more hard core, but I don't feel people really in the end want the amount of work required to get there. In comparison, in the same period of time if I play wow for 1.5 hours I can do an entire dungeon, jump on an a new alt lvl him to lvl 5, jump off then back to my main, farm some gold, then log back off and still have time to accomplish some BG's for pvp. I think it really comes down to the sense of accomplishment.
 
After some discussion with others and a few that have lvl 50's already this seems to be the only reasons we can think of.
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I have to agree with the OP mostly. Leveling and everything in game feels great and fun.. up until you reach tier 2 crafting items and around lvl 25 in character progression. From that point on the game just feels so so slow. you progress just seems to feel like you hit a wind wall that is blowing you back twos steps for every three you take.
 
Now i think dominion have less of issue with leveling after 25 or so because i found winning BG's is the best way to level after 25. But if you play on Exiles its really rough to win BG's. Just simply because i find that Dominion seems to have the better skilled players on their side in general.
 
 
But yes to me. You can tell that the higher ups at carbine finally rush this product to market. Because just playing the game you see also the awesome system and things to do. They seem to fine at lower level. But they clearly did not test anything past around level 25 or tier 2. They put in the basic systems but didn't polish them out at past the point.
 
It's sad but them releasing this game early i think is going to kill it. But then again they had to release it sometime and it has been in develope for years so you can't blame carbine for not wanting to wait another 5-6 months for everything from basically mid- end game to polished.
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But yes to me. You can tell that the higher ups at carbine finally rush this product to market. Because just playing the game you see also the awesome system and things to do. They seem to fine at lower level. But they clearly did not test anything past around level 25 or tier 2. They put in the basic systems but didn't polish them out at past the point.
 
It's sad but them releasing this game early i think is going to kill it. But then again they had to release it sometime and it has been in develope for years so you can't blame carbine for not wanting to wait another 5-6 months for everything from basically mid- end game to polished.
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There were actually three leveling zones (Dreadmoor, Coralus, and Murkmire) that didn't make it into launch and would have occupied the same level ranges as Whitevale, Farside, and Wilderrun, respectively.. So they did actually have alternate leveling zones planned, they were probably just cut due to time constraints. We might see them in a later patch.
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I think too many people are focusing on the destination and not the journey.  Same with gear, most people just want that first gear drop to be the perfect gear that has all the rune slots on it that they want.  Doesn't always work out that way, it should not be frustrating, you take what you get and keep looking for better down the road.  The journey can be fun but Warcraft spoiled so many people by making the destination so easy to attain. 
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Level 25 was cap for a lot of people in open beta, 30 for some other folks. They had more feedback there.
 
And the decision on what date to release might not have been solely Carbine's decision (*glares at NCsoft).
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I do agree with the OP that this game takes a lot of time commitment.
 
It takes me 40 minutes just harvesting all my neighbor's plots :/
 
A dungeon run can easily take the 2 hours
 
But I don't think leveling up is all that hard.  Friend just went from 29-32 over the weekend in about 6 hours of goofing off and mixing path quests with normal quests and tasks.  If we focused on just leveling up, he could have hit 35 I think.	
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There were actually three leveling zones (Dreadmoor, Coralus, and Murkmire) that didn't make it into launch and would have occupied the same level ranges as Whitevale, Farside, and Wilderrun, respectively.. So they did actually have alternate leveling zones planned, they were probably just cut due to time constraints. We might see them in a later patch.
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I almost quit the game around level 25. I took about a week off, and coming back with maxed out resting xp seemed to make leveling a bit better.
 
Now at 50 I have quit. No one's playing on the Dominion side on my server. I thought I'd love Dominion, but no such luck. Whoever thought pitting sociopathic religious zealots against cool space rebels was really pretty stupid. Even though I like my Chua well enough, my opinion of the Dominion is really low.
 
I can't even find a guild to join that has more than 10 people in it. I'm sure there are some, but they're not easy to find. I've seen about 2 guild recruitment messages since launch. I just don't like the game enough to start another character and get it to 50. Also, the attunement process seems awful and definitely impossible without a guild. There are too many cons and not enough pros. I might come back if (when) they go free to play, but for now my time will be best spent elsewhere.	
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1. There is little sense of accomplishment. Meaning if you only have 1.5 hours to play this game after a full day of work, you're lucky if you level even once.
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I don't pretend to understand why a player would stick around and do nothing but LFR for gear, but WoW makes millions off of people who want to do exactly that and those millions have gone into developing tons of hardcore content over the years.
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