110069-development-update

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== Content ==
			
Hey all,
 
So a lot of folks have been speculating about our next drop and I wanted to talk about it in detail.
 
The plan was to roll out a zone next month, and a pretty badass one at that. The new zone and its contents not only sets up the epic ongoing world story of WildStar, but provides more group and solo content along with costumes, items, etc. What we hadn’t planned for was the mountain of feedback. You guys have been vocal about everything from bugs, early level content, attunement, PvP and Elder Game. And we were listening.
 
Because of that, we decided to make a change. We are adding a month’s worth of feedback and bugfixes to the mix based on player feedback and user experiences. These are changes to core systems such as economy, classes, PvP, crafting - you name it. We’re knocking out bugs and making changes to improve your gameplay experience. We want to roll these issues into the patch with the new zone content and that’s going to take some more time.
 
How much time you ask? That’s an excellent question! We’re going to take the time to make sure that this next patch is not only badass but bug free. I’ll update you again shortly with the list of details on what’s being addressed in the game and the timeframe.
 
And from the entire team, thanks for your continued patience and support. We can’t do this without you.	
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I think what most people want to know is when the attunement and rune changes will get here. Do we have to wait for the bug-free content drop or will they happen in a weekly patch?
 
Also... FIRST.	
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I think what most people want to know is when the attunement and rune changes will get here. Do we have to wait for the bug-free content drop or will they happen in a weekly patch?
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I 100% support this decision.
 
I love you like a rock... but bugs will put a damper in any relationship.	
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Honestly Donatelli I am just gonna be super frank and blunt with you here. I came to the game expecting monthly drops, if you guys can't fulfill that I don't see much of a reason to stay anymore. I hope at least the rune system will be changed this scheduled drop because if it doesn't I don't see myself sticking around this month either.
 
EDIT: By "Scheduled Drop" I'm referring to september 3rd. Also quite displeased with your half-ass way of announcing major model changes.	
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What is the purpose of waiting to drop these changes with a content patch? The content is cool and nice, but I dont see the benefit from doing one enormous content patch with all the fixes.
 
It seems to me that all this does is delay the fixes we need unnecessarily while increasing the chances for a buggy content drop due to the enormity of stuff being changed.	
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			Props dude. Stay the course, you guys are getting it right.	
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I do agree with ^. I'd think it would be better for your bottom line to roll out feedback fixes asap and hold off on any content updates. Either way, I hope this time is well used. A lot of us are rooting for you. Personally, I have to step away from the game currently because I can't play it without becoming bitter and frustrated. I will check back as fixes are implemented and hope to make Wildstar my full-time pvp game sooner rather than later. GL. 
 
 
Here are a few loving suggestions that I think are essential to the current gaming meta:
 
-lower entrance barriers across the board. In pvp, this means drastically reducing gear dependence. In pve, this means getting people prepared and ready to raid in a timely manner. Do away with ability/amp upgrades...seriously terrible design choice and only act to increase barrier of entrance.
-Find ways to make alting viable. One character gets boring and trying to level, EG cap, get ability/amp upgrades, ect on multiple characters is ridiculous. Alting is essential to game longevity.
-pvp needs to be skill based and have no more than minuscule gear dependence. Seriously, no one has or will take it seriously otherwise(except for exploiters and pubstompers). This is 100% true and needs to be the core tenant of your pvp system. Low barrier of entrance and skill (instead of time, grind, ect.) dependence is 100% of the reason from the shift of mmo to moba in the last 5 years. 
-casual content pays the bills, seriously the vast majority of mmo players will never be more than casual. You need meaningful content with low difficulty and ways to get them to group with little effort. This DOES NOT replace your current raiding systems. You need one pugable pre-raid. That does not mean you need to lower dificulty on current raids. It means you offer a scaled down difficulty version that a LFRaid group can do. The rewards should be between dungeon quality and raid quality. This gives casuals something meaningful to do and trains them to work in groups and raid on larger scales.	
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Stay the course
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			On the one hand, I appreciate this so much. On the other hand, pushing an update of that size into one thing will probably lead into something unwanted. I do not hope for something bad but I fear that this will not go right.	
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			Don't postpone balance changes that are ready for the sake of releasing everything in one package. It sounds like you're going to intentionally hold off on things so that when drop 3 finally hits you can say "Oh look at all this wonderful stuff that came with this update". I can pretty much guarantee you that if the Warrior Tank and Medic field changes don't come out in the next few weeks, there won't be many people left to enjoy them, myself included.	
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Hi so great post Mr Donatelli, however I am worried about how unclear the following is:
{| class="blockquote"
How much time you ask? That’s an excellent question! We’re going to take the time to make sure that this next patch is not only badass but bug free. I’ll update you again shortly with the list of details on what’s being addressed in the game and the timeframe.
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Hi :) ! Thanks for the update !
 
Any chance you can soon give us more details about your april's post about elder gems please ?
 
This post of yours :) !
 
excerpt :
 
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
[...]
 
That being said, the Elder Gem system you are seeing in-game today is only half of the intended final system. Elder Gem vendor purchases related to the power of your character were always supposed to be the secondary place to buy various gear/drops/items, with the primary method being through game content. The Elder Gem Vendor is in essence a "backup", a place to buy things should the RNG gods not favor you after weeks of trying to get a certain item off a boss or a quest.
 
Unfortunately, the full system is not going to make it into the game before launch, but we're aiming to include it in the first major drop post-launch.
 
[...]
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			I guess I am going to echo the confusion of several people here, as to why you are delaying features for a larger overall patch.  If the Defile is done and ready to go then I don't understand why it isn't released on schedule, and the various feedback related changes from this month (rune slots, attunement, etc.) incorporated into weekly patches when they are ready.  Its not like it would be the first time you've done major system changes outside of a content drop (e.g. medal loot).	
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			I'm fine with pushing back the new content but if the fixes to pvp gear don't come out in the first week of September every single member of my guild will be unsubscribing. I don't mean that as a threat it's just a reality. We really enjoy the combat in Wildstar but we'd rather not spend all night being frustrated for the next few months waiting for a crucial feature to be implemented that has been live on PTR for 3 weeks already. Combining all these updates into one massive ball holds up things that should be live already due to something completely unrelated not being ready. At least before it was "Well x is broken so I geuss we'll wait till next month". Now it's "Well x is broken, maybe sometime 3 months from now we will see a change".	
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			thank you!	
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm fine with pushing back the new content but if the fixes to pvp gear don't come out in the first week of September every single member of my guild will be unsubscribing. I don't mean that as a threat it's just a reality. We really enjoy the combat in Wildstar but we'd rather not spend all night being frustrated for the next few months waiting for a crucial feature to be implemented that has been live on PTR for 3 weeks already. Combining all these updates into one massive ball holds up things that should be live already due to something completely unrelated not being ready. At least before it was "Well x is broken so I geuss we'll wait till next month". Now it's "Well x is broken, maybe sometime 3 months from now we will see a change".
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I can't speak from anybody else but I rather have feedback fixes included ASAP than whatever content you are trying to add to the game. I can wait months for new content, but those fixes, everyday I don't have them I'm losing playtime. It diminishes the experience so much, I can see how people can be frustrated and leave the game because of them.
 
Now going forward. I know that isolating elements from a (or multiple) complex computer program is very hard however I think, if possible would be better for the game include whatever you think is working added ingame before the rest. Then maybe, this sound ridiculous but, just rollback PTR, go back to live version and just add fixes there, let us help you with that, without new code interfering with the process. After that, go back and rethink the end-game zone model that you have in mind now, use the new zone to test zone ideas and go from that.
 
You have very good ideas your combat, your housing, your costume, challenges, crafting, runes but they hide behind so many problems: UI, design, gold costs, misuse of RNG, drop rates. There is potential is just buried, if you unleashed I'll test it then play it.	
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Because of that, we decided to make a change. We are adding a month’s worth of feedback and bugfixes to the mix based on player feedback and user experiences. These are changes to core systems such as economy, classes, PvP, crafting - you name it. We’re knocking out bugs and making changes to improve your gameplay experience. We want to roll these issues into the patch with the new zone content and that’s going to take some more time.
 
How much time you ask? That’s an excellent question! We’re going to take the time to make sure that this next patch is not only badass but bug free. I’ll update you again shortly with the list of details on what’s being addressed in the game and the timeframe.
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+1 to those perplexed as to why you would wait to roll out necessary and clamored-for fixes if they are available and what players want most. 
 
New content is great and all but there won't be many players around to see it if the gameplay isn't fixed in a more timely manner.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Hey all,
 
So a lot of folks have been speculating about our next drop and I wanted to talk about it in detail.
 
The plan was to roll out a zone next month, and a pretty badass one at that. The new zone and its contents not only sets up the epic ongoing world story of WildStar, but provides more group and solo content along with costumes, items, etc. What we hadn’t planned for was the mountain of feedback. You guys have been vocal about everything from bugs, early level content, attunement, PvP and Elder Game. And we were listening.
 
Because of that, we decided to make a change. We are adding a month’s worth of feedback and bugfixes to the mix based on player feedback and user experiences. These are changes to core systems such as economy, classes, PvP, crafting - you name it. We’re knocking out bugs and making changes to improve your gameplay experience. We want to roll these issues into the patch with the new zone content and that’s going to take some more time.
 
How much time you ask? That’s an excellent question! We’re going to take the time to make sure that this next patch is not only badass but bug free. I’ll update you again shortly with the list of details on what’s being addressed in the game and the timeframe.
 
And from the entire team, thanks for your continued patience and support. We can’t do this without you.
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So I take it the PVP gear gap is not being released anytime soon.. 
 
Be back in a bit.. looking for another game that wants my money.. 
Found it!
laters	
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I had hope, but everytime I read a dev response or a dev announcement, I lose faith, because they always talk about the future, but they haven't really delivered on anything yet.
 
Its all about "We're looking into this"
 
Or 
 
"It'll be done in the future"
 
Something along those lines
 
 
I have yet to see any serious improvements on the game. You can talk all you want, but talking means nothing until you show it in action, and PTR doesn't count for that. 
 
You guys say you are working on client optimization
 
You guys say you are aware of server populations
 
You guys say you are working on attunement changes
 
I could go on, and further on about major changes & QoL improvements.
 
But have you put any of these in? No, why? Pfft, idk.
 
 
Dev's that act rather than say are much more respected than those who don't. Right now, I see communication, but I don't see action. 
 
Action is the only thing that will reduce sub loss and possibly bring old subs back. Right now I'm not going to refer this game to a friend until some serious improvements are made to the game. It wouldn't be fair to them to bring them into a game that is not worth it in my eyes yet.
 
The only reason I still continue to play this is because there is nothing else that satisfies me at the moment other than wildstar, but if something comes up and if my server/guild just falls through because you guys can't bring something together for server pop, I'll be out. And until I get confirmation on those changes or see them for myself, I won't return. 	
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			 I would rather see a bit of delay on content and have them fix these frustrating issue than have my hair start going grey and have the game feel more toxic than it should be.	
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+1 to those perplexed as to why you would wait to roll out necessary and clamored-for fixes if they are available and what players want most. 
 
New content is great and all but there won't be many players around to see it if the gameplay isn't fixed in a more timely manner.
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I hate to say this on their own thread, what I find worst, is that this update was planned for next month, so we can expect the actual drop to be for october? Maybe november?
 
GL living past november, by then half the base will be gone because carbine is way TO SLOW to respond to any situation except creating new servers at launch. 
 
This is literally a cash grab at its worse I almost want to say.	
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"Some people are subbed to this over other games because of the fast monthly patch cycle for example."
 
Thats me. I can live with little bugs ;-)	
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{| class="blockquote"
Hey all,
 
So a lot of folks have been speculating about our next drop and I wanted to talk about it in detail.
 
The plan was to roll out a zone next month, and a pretty badass one at that. The new zone and its contents not only sets up the epic ongoing world story of WildStar, but provides more group and solo content along with costumes, items, etc. What we hadn’t planned for was the mountain of feedback. You guys have been vocal about everything from bugs, early level content, attunement, PvP and Elder Game. And we were listening.
 
Because of that, we decided to make a change. We are adding a month’s worth of feedback and bugfixes to the mix based on player feedback and user experiences. These are changes to core systems such as economy, classes, PvP, crafting - you name it. We’re knocking out bugs and making changes to improve your gameplay experience. We want to roll these issues into the patch with the new zone content and that’s going to take some more time.
 
How much time you ask? That’s an excellent question! We’re going to take the time to make sure that this next patch is not only badass but bug free. I’ll update you again shortly with the list of details on what’s being addressed in the game and the timeframe.
 
And from the entire team, thanks for your continued patience and support. We can’t do this without you.
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			I like the sound of this. It needed to happen this way, and to be acknowledged like this. Please get it right, you just raised the stakes for yourselves.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Thanks Don!
 
For those wondering why they aren't rolling out "fixed" issues, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that even if they're working now, the amount of stuff they're rolling into the next patch could mean that breaks it, or something in it will break those fixes.  You want bug free, you can get as close as Carbine can muster, but that means taking everything off the assembly line and making sure every single component works with each other flawlessly before putting it out.
 
These things take time.  So you want to put major changes out at once, in a build that will definitely work together with as few gaps as possible.  Obviously, weekly and random drops was only creating more problems as people were working in different versions of the client.
 
To reduce the bugs, this is how it has to be done.
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So all I really want to know is, how long are we waiting for the fix to the Trigger Fingers cooldown bug? Does this mean it WON'T be in next weeks patch?
 
Please, please just let us know what to expect. It feels like you don't understand how big of a deal it is to be the guy in the dungeons saying "Sorry guys, you can't count on me to interrupt because I don't know when mine will be up." Not knowing when my interrupts are up means missing critical interrupts because if I'm wrong about them being up means death, so I pass and put other players at risk.
 
Overall, I like the idea of changing direction and taking in the player feedback. But you need to let us know you understand how big of a deal this is. You rushed out other fixes the day this was broken, why not this one?	
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Unfortunately as I noted above this game can't really last much longer without some of these changes, at least the audience it actually affects. 
 
It sounds like an issue of being lazy rather than its difficulty.  I thought the same thing, but they should know by now these QoL changes need to be priority #1 before new updates. Right now the game has so much content in it, they don't need to worry about new content yet. Come november yeah sure, add new content, but that should be their least priority right now. 
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This cannot be serious, if you're telling me we need to wait an additional month to see bug fixes i'm gone.
We haven't had a single class bug fix since August 6th IIRC and i'm speaking for spellslingers when I say our class dev hasn't given us ANY feedback since then either.
 
I really love this game and I wan't to see it grow but stuff like this is straight up going to destroy it.
 
I don't care if you're delayed on content patches, that's expected, But please don't delay bug fixes for the sake of getting them out the same time as content updates, that's ass backwards and absolutely ridiculous. 
 
I'm sure you've seen the 45% decline in population since the games release and if you want to stop that I beg you please don't follow through with this idea.
So many people have left because we feel ignored and this is going to be the icing on the cake for many of us.	
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{| class="blockquote"
For those wondering why they aren't rolling out "fixed" issues, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that even if they're working now, the amount of stuff they're rolling into the next patch could mean that breaks it, or something in it will break those fixes.  You want bug free, you can get as close as Carbine can muster, but that means taking everything off the assembly line and making sure every single component works with each other flawlessly before putting it out.
 
These things take time.  So you want to put major changes out at once, in a build that will definitely work together with as few gaps as possible.  Obviously, weekly and random drops was only creating more problems as people were working in different versions of the client.
 
To reduce the bugs, this is how it has to be done.
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{| class="blockquote"
Well, what would you like?  They tried the layered fast fixes and monthly drop cycle.  It was the fast fixes causing most of the problems, such as things re-introducing old bugs because people were using so many versions of the client to work on.  To stop the bug hemorrhage people were complaining about, they need to work in one version at a time and drop it all at once.  That's what we asked for.  They now HAVE to make sure every single thing works together, and that means not dropping everything in weekly and hotfixed mouthfuls.
 
Which is fine, I didn't complain about their prior schedule but I don't mind if they shift gears and do the old-school all-in-one approach to limit their bugs.  But if they're dropping a hotfix for everyone's pet peeve, you are asking for exactly what everyone's been asking them to change.
 
So which do you prefer?
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{| class="blockquote"
It doesn't explain why they are pushing back the bug fixes to coincide with a content launch.
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{| class="blockquote"
Well, what would you like?  They tried the layered fast fixes and monthly drop cycle.  It was the fast fixes causing most of the problems, such as things re-introducing old bugs because people were using so many versions of the client to work on.  To stop the bug hemorrhage people were complaining about, they need to work in one version at a time and drop it all at once.  That's what we asked for.  They now HAVE to make sure every single thing works together, and that means not dropping everything in weekly and hotfixed mouthfuls.
 
Which is fine, I didn't complain about their prior schedule but I don't mind if they shift gears and do the old-school all-in-one approach to limit their bugs.  But if they're dropping a hotfix for everyone's pet peeve, you are asking for exactly what everyone's been asking them to change.
 
So which do you prefer?
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{| class="blockquote"
Or they can be smart and pull up the version we have now, fix the bugs from that, and push it out. I know thats not exactly how they do it, but its pretty damn close I'm sure. My point is we don't need new content and they need to get that through their thick cupcake. 
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			Well my thread just has been close and I've been kindly invited to post here... To avoid a re-post here's the comment:Sorry but some reaction is needed and quickly before we lose most of our server populations... I sincerely hope the other classes and specs do not suffer as we do but as a tank warrior I ask clearly that we be brought back in the game in PVE.Cheers!	
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{| class="blockquote"
It partially explains why they are lumping bug fixes together into a single patch.  It doesn't explain why they are pushing back the bug fixes to coincide with a content launch.
Are you suggesting that the same people designing quests are also tinkering with the game's subsystems?  Or that creating art assets, NPCs, or quests has any deep interaction with the stats on PvP gear or how Spellslinger cooldowns work?
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Love the content you lot are giving us, love the quality of it, love the game in general.
 
What I don't love is that I can't do anything with this content because our server's empty and nothing's being done about it. No server merges, no free transfers for dead servers. I know this takes time, but it can't be hard to put a couple of people on it so my guild doesn't fall apart because of this. And don't even come up with the "you can pay for transfers" stuff because with the current state of Contagion (and some other servers) that's just ripping people off.	
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I really hate seeing them move away from the monthly cycle. People who are very vocal about the bugs are still going to be very vocal in 2 months when there are still bugs. There is never going to be a big release with no bugs. But now you'll also upset the people who like the monthly content. 
 
To go back to something Jeremy Gaffney has said many times, when charging a monthly fee we should expect to be delivered something on a monthly basis. He compared it to the way subscription HBO type channels work. I agreed with him then and I still do now. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
I would like them to communicate that they understand exactly how game breaking it is and when it will be fixed.
 
Not knowing when your interrupts are available in a game where coordinating interrupts is a core mechanic is a little more than a "pet peeve".
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{| class="blockquote"
Love the content you lot are giving us, love the quality of it, love the game in general.
 
What I don't love is that I can't do anything with this content because our server's empty and nothing's being done about it. No server merges, no free transfers for dead servers. I know this takes time, but it can't be hard to put a couple of people on it so my guild doesn't fall apart because of this. And don't even come up with the "you can pay for transfers" stuff because with the current state of Contagion (and some other servers) that's just ripping people off.
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Account Status Active
Type Deluxe
Playable Until Oct 1, 2014
Subscription None
I really really loved this game.  But I can't be asked to re-roll again or continue to play a broken class any longer (SpellSlinger - Vitality Burst, Sustain, Trigger Fingers).Everything has been echoed hundreds of times already... PvP, server pops, transfers, attunement, reward system, runes, etc.  Combining all of that with the announcement of no new content every month and delaying the bug fixes to release them with the content drops is just too much. Logging into the game is just frustrating now, so when the CREDD runs out that's it for me.Thanks for the fun I did have - I'll keep an eye on the game and hope for the best - would love to return.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Seriously, look at all the issues in the game right now and focus on fixing those.
I see multiple topics on every forum I go to about server populations yet we get absolutely no feedback about that, instead they wan't to talk about more content drops.. it's starting to turn laughable.
 I don't think ANYONE is complaining we don't have enough content.
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It has to get rolled in with other "pet peeves".  I think there are warriors out there begging to differ on the worst broken mechanic.  We've been spamming Carbine with a load of fixes we want, and they don't think the quick-fire way is going to fix them all without breaking other things.  What did everyone think was going to happen when they told Carbine to release a game without bugs?  Fast weekly fixes for everything goes first.
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{| class="blockquote"
 
Maybe if they said something along those lines instead of being extremely vague about everything?
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Enough.
 
The game in its current state (low servers, unbalance, crap pvp, bugs, broken classes etc etc) is unplayable for me anymore. I cant wait for a magic patch "some time in the future" to address all these problems. I m one of the biggest fans of WS but i prefer to just leave and come back when they are finished with all this mess. This is getting really annoying anyway, hanging in forums and asking for solutions, more often than playing the game...
 
I really hope this joke will end soon.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Whatever your thoughts on our need for content, if trigger fingers gets broken by anything in the new version, or even if something is breaking in it now with the version they want to release and thus they KNOW something's wrong, you get bugs.
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{| class="blockquote"
 
 
Account Status Active
Type Deluxe
Playable Until Oct 1, 2014
Subscription None
I really really loved this game.  But I can't be asked to re-roll again or continue to play a broken class any longer (SpellSlinger - Vitality Burst, Sustain, Trigger Fingers).
 
Everything has been echoed hundreds of times already... PvP, server pops, transfers, attunement, reward system, runes, etc.  Combining all of that with the announcement of no new content every month and delaying the bug fixes to release them with the content drops is just too much. Logging into the game is just frustrating now, so when the CREDD runs out that's it for me.
 
Thanks for the fun I did have - I'll keep an eye on the game and hope for the best - would love to return.
 
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{| class="blockquote"
I believe he did:
 
 
Emphasis added.  It seems pretty clear to me that incorporating all the recent feedback related changes is the reason for the delay.
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{| class="blockquote"
Another one bites the dust.. can't say I blame you.
 
I tried going and bumping every spellslinger bug topic in the SS class discussion section hoping we'd get some sort of feedback from Tranagram yesterday, but still nothing.
I think I bumped 10 topics dating from yesterday all the way to August 3rd and many of them have the same exact bugs listed.. that's unreal.
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{| class="blockquote"
Hey all,
 
So a lot of folks have been speculating about our next drop and I wanted to talk about it in detail.
 
The plan was to roll out a zone next month, and a pretty badass one at that. The new zone and its contents not only sets up the epic ongoing world story of WildStar, but provides more group and solo content along with costumes, items, etc. What we hadn’t planned for was the mountain of feedback. You guys have been vocal about everything from bugs, early level content, attunement, PvP and Elder Game. And we were listening.
 
Because of that, we decided to make a change. We are adding a month’s worth of feedback and bugfixes to the mix based on player feedback and user experiences. These are changes to core systems such as economy, classes, PvP, crafting - you name it. We’re knocking out bugs and making changes to improve your gameplay experience. We want to roll these issues into the patch with the new zone content and that’s going to take some more time.
 
How much time you ask? That’s an excellent question! We’re going to take the time to make sure that this next patch is not only badass but bug free. I’ll update you again shortly with the list of details on what’s being addressed in the game and the timeframe.
 
And from the entire team, thanks for your continued patience and support. We can’t do this without you.
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{| class="blockquote"
Bugs happen across everything.  The class fix you think is an isolated bit of mechanical system isn't isolated and it could have extremely deep roots in control mechanics that, if patched, could have all kinds of weird unintended consequences.  What if Spellslinger cooldowns are built on timers that are checked for validity by the server, and thus trigger finger procs need to be integrated with that?  What if a world buff speeds up timers, but they don't want it to speed up that particular timer?  These things don't exist in a vacuum; if it was just a value that needed changed, it would be done already.  It's obviously not.
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{| class="blockquote"
The "recent" feedback of bugs has been happening for well over a month and nothing has been done about many of them yet.
I'm sorry but for a game that we're paying to play that's unacceptable.
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{| class="blockquote"
Bugs happen across everything.  The class fix you think is an isolated bit of mechanical system isn't isolated and it could have extremely deep roots in control mechanics that, if patched, could have all kinds of weird unintended consequences.  What if Spellslinger cooldowns are built on timers that are checked for validity by the server, and thus trigger finger procs need to be integrated with that?  What if a world buff speeds up timers, but they don't want it to speed up that particular timer?  These things don't exist in a vacuum; if it was just a value that needed changed, it would be done already.  It's obviously not.
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{| class="blockquote"
The feedback is more referring to the attunement and rune slot changes.  The rune slot changes aren't even done being designed, let alone implemented or tested.  Those are the type of thing that is most likely delaying the patch, and not bugs that are already fixed on the PTR.
 
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{| class="blockquote"
OK, explain to me what mechanic warriors have that is more broken. And if they have anything as broken as TF, they should have been top priority until they got fixed.
 
OR, if there was some reason that they couldn't be fixed (difficult code or whatever), they should have at least told us "Hey guys, we realize that you are not reliable in dungeons because of this bug and it's painful. We're working on it, but we can't put out a fix now". They haven't even given us that much.
 
Don't call it a "pet peeve". A "peeve" is something that's irritating. This kind of bug is the thing that gets people raged at or kicked out of groups.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Trigger Fingers is already broken. They aren't going to make it worse.
----
			
The run fix is great and I can't wait till they get it out. Props for them taking that seriously- it's a serious problem in the game that needs to be addressed.
 
But all evidence to this point shows they haven't taken the TF bug seriously, and that's what's at issue here.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I completely understand that and i'm not arguing it at all, what i'm saying is if most of these bugs are fixed on the PTR why do we need to wait an additional month to get the update?
I wouldn't give a shit if the update on the 26th was solely for bug fixes and I think most people would agree.
 
Don't make the people that are paying your bills suffer because you bit off more than you can chew with monthly updates.
Bug fixes and monthly content drops should be two completely different things.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
First one that comes to mind is the threat buff on the PTR that isn't in the game yet.  Right now, warrior tanks are complaining about being almost worthless.  Here's the problem with your argument, because they COULD do this, but...
 
 
 
This is what they've been doing.  People complained about bugs, that this was generating more bugs than it should.  Lots of things are "fixed" on the PTR but might immediately be broken by things now being added.  This is why the announcement was made; people complained about the bugs.  This is how to get fewer bugs, by not making everything a weekly hotfix.  Everything is someone's most hated bug.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Don't postpone balance changes that are ready for the sake of releasing everything in one package. It sounds like you're going to intentionally hold off on things so that when drop 3 finally hits you can say "Oh look at all this wonderful stuff that came with this update". I can pretty much guarantee you that if the Warrior Tank and Medic field changes don't come out in the next few weeks, there won't be many people left to enjoy them, myself included.
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{| class="blockquote"
And if my grandma had balls she'd be my grandpa.  That's a ridiculous hypothetical.  It also misses the point entirely.
 
Even if your entirely unsupported and outlandish hypothetical were true:
They could (and should) push out the fix tested against the existing systems and the systems being introduced with it.  Then, when they want to introduce new content that speeds up all timers except for this one timer (did you have a straight face when you wrote this?), test that against the fixed systems (like trigger fingers cooldown).  
 
Your theory also completely ignores that the fix already exists.  It's not like they don't know how to fix it without messing up the rest of the game.  
 
Also, seriously, Spellslinger cooldowns with "extremely deep roots in control mechanics"?  And you think that's an argument for delaying the fix?  That's crazy on two levels.  First, we'd have seen "weird unintended consequences" after Carbine broke Spellslinger cooldowns.  But we didn't.  Second, such a fundamental system being broken would mean that a fix should happen sooner rather than later.
 
Edit: your hypothetical is as ridiculous as claiming that Warrior threat has "deep roots in calculation mechanics, that if patched could have all kinds of weird unintended consequences." 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is how to get fewer bugs, by not making everything a weekly hotfix.  Everything is someone's most hated bug.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Ehehe, you have no idea, though.  They could fix this and the next patch could make you unplayable in PVP if it's not with everything else.  That's been the entire issue.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I don't see why that's a weird hypothetical.  Where do you think these bugs have been coming from?  We have real, practical evidence that this is what happens.  What do you want me to say?  "No, everything they've ever dropped has been nothing but perfect fixes and they've never broken anything with a previous fix?"
 
This is how this works if you want it to be completely bug free.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You don't fix bugs by delaying them 2 months, all that shows is that you as a company are incapeable of fixing bugs in a timely manner.
2 month to fix any class bug for an MMO is completely unacceptable and if you disagree you haven't played many mmos.
 
I understand things take time to fix and you don't want to to rush fixes only to add more bugs, but eventually you need to stop making excuses for the company and just realize they're doing it wrong.
 
I love this game and it's evident you do to, but that doesn't mean you need to be blind to the issues.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm not blind to the issues.  I'm just wondering if everyone complaining about the bugs understands what they were asking for.  You're getting an integrated solution that will make sure all this stuff works together.  People have been asking for that since launch.  What do you want them to do?  Just push out this one spellslinger fix but nothing else, because it's the only thing that "matters enough"?
----
			I am surprised you're giving up on the monthly updates, it's not like the last montly update was bad only the random rune to pvp gear change was bad and that didn't come with the update.  I am guessing this is more do to financial issues than anything but speculation aside, PLEASE release the balance changes and non-new content related things much earlier than the big patches.  That's all. 	
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Rolling bug fixes solely with major content patches isn't a good direction for the game and it's why this game currently feels more dead than StarCraft II. It also shows Carbine's slowness in responding to criticism and some of the game's more pressing issues. Server populations are currently dying rapidly and players have been complaining about the bugged nature of this game for almost three months and Carbine are only now acknowledging how broken their game is? Really?
 
If a major game-breaking exploit or bug appears in WoW, what does Blizzard do? They fix that shit. They fix it to the point where it becomes a non-issue and they've done that numerous times in the past. What has Carbine done in the wake of many of the game-breaking exploits and bugs in Wildstar? Wait until the next Content Drop which may or may not fix a bug.
 
I've been a good sport and reported a lot of issues with the game and to my (lack of) surprise many of them are still in the game. Crashes are still frequent, framerates (on my AMD system) are still screwed and some quests are still not possible to complete.
 
Carbine need to focus far more on minor patches to fix bugs, not roll them out alongside new content into one single mega-patch that may add even more things to bugfix.
 
It's like using the "1200 bug fixes" line to advertise Strain: Ultra Drop. It doesn't really offer a new feature but rather shows how broken your game which you've been developing since 2007 is.	
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{| class="blockquote"
But some bugs are bigger than others. The TF bug is one.
 
I've experienced plenty of bugs in this game. I've waited patiently and I get it. I'm a software developer so I know the drill. But there are some issues that need to be regarded as "break the rules, get it done" bad. Carbine knows this. They rushed out a fix for the 360 Wild Barrage bug.
 
You can't make interrupt coordination a core mechanic in a game and then break people's ability to coordinate those interrupts. That rises far above "someone's most hated bug".
 
And if it's true that tanks can't generate enough threat, that falls into the same category.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Personally I'd like them to scrap the idea of new content all together until the game breaking/hindering bugs are fixed and the promised system changes are in place.  I don't want "The Defile" - I want the game and my class to work within the existing content on live.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm not blind to the issues.  I'm just wondering if everyone complaining about the bugs understands what they were asking for.  You're getting an integrated solution that will make sure all this stuff works together.  People have been asking for that since launch.  What do you want them to do?  Just push out this one spellslinger fix but nothing else, because it's the only thing that "matters enough"?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I don't see why that's a weird hypothetical.  Where do you think these bugs have been coming from?  We have real, practical evidence that this is what happens.  What do you want me to say?  "No, everything they've ever dropped has been nothing but perfect fixes and they've never broken anything with a previous fix?"
 
This is how this works if you want it to be completely bug free.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I completely understand that and i'm not arguing it at all, what i'm saying is if most of these bugs are fixed on the PTR why do we need to wait an additional month to get the update?
I wouldn't give a shit if the update on the 26th was solely for bug fixes and I think most people would agree.
 
Don't make the people that are paying your bills suffer because you bit off more than you can chew with monthly updates.
Bug fixes and monthly content drops should be two completely different things.
----
			
Stuff like this kills games Carbine.
 
The monthly wait for normal bug fixes was about 3 weeks too long. Now you are delaying these fixes even more. GG Carbine.
I could care less about the new zone i'll finish in one day, but I need the real fixes and changes.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm not blind to the issues.  I'm just wondering if everyone complaining about the bugs understands what they were asking for.  You're getting an integrated solution that will make sure all this stuff works together.  People have been asking for that since launch.  What do you want them to do?  Just push out this one spellslinger fix but nothing else, because it's the only thing that "matters enough"?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Scerick, the content is done.  Re-read the post; it's very clearly pointed out bug fixes and changes from feedback, not the content, as the reason for taking more time.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Bugs happen across everything.  The class fix you think is an isolated bit of mechanical system isn't isolated and it could have extremely deep roots in control mechanics that, if patched, could have all kinds of weird unintended consequences.  What if Spellslinger cooldowns are built on timers that are checked for validity by the server, and thus trigger finger procs need to be integrated with that?  What if a world buff speeds up timers, but they don't want it to speed up that particular timer?  These things don't exist in a vacuum; if it was just a value that needed changed, it would be done already.  It's obviously not.
 
 
 
Whatever your thoughts on our need for content, if trigger fingers gets broken by anything in the new version, or even if something is breaking in it now with the version they want to release and thus they KNOW something's wrong, you get bugs.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Stuff like this kills games Carbine.
 
The monthly wait for normal bug fixes was about 3 weeks too long. Now you are delaying these fixes even more. GG Carbine.
I could care less about the new zone i'll finish in one day, but I need the real fixes and changes.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What did people expect would happen?  That Trigger Fingers would be the sole bug and issue important enough to make it into a hotfix?  Where do you stop?  That's all I'm saying here.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I understood what I was asking for on August 3rd when the class was originally broke.
 
I think many of us have been more than forgiving with carbine giving them over a month to fix some things, but now they make a post saying they want an additional month because "we've been so helpful"
That's bullshit i'm sorry, I was patient enough.
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{| class="blockquote"
As a pretty dedicated forum watcher, what do you want me to say?  People complained about bugs, they complained about them prioritizing content over bugs, they complained about everything under the sun, and complained about Carbine not telling us anything.
 
So they dropped a post informing us what was going on and explaining that they've listened and are going to make sure everything works together first because of all the bug reports and such, and they get nailed for that, too.
 
And this is why we don't get Carbine to ever tell us what's going on.  Why should they?  Apparently, if they'd just said nothing, people would have continued to be patient.
 
So yeah, I see exactly what Carbine's been reading here and I know exactly where they were coming from.  What do you want me to say?  "This approach people were almost unanimous in proclaiming would be the way forward is what they should do, except for...."  It's the umbrage that is disappointing.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
First off, things are broken right now.  You're acting as if holding back the bugfixes doesn't hurt because it gives them time to perfect it.  No, it means broken things right now continue to be broken every day.
 
Yes, bugfixes might break other things.  That's why they are tested, and they have been tested, and the fix is complete.  We just don't have access to it.
 
Oh!  But you say that they should hold off because future content might re-break the fix?  Do you realize how ridiculous that is?  Maybe they shouldn't release any bug fixes until all content is complete.
 
I'd love to see you post on the Warrior forums (because it seems like your main) defending Carbine's decision to not fix Warriors because fixing Warrior threat could cause unintended problems everywhere.
 
Edit: Stop acting as if Spellslingers want Carbine to drop everything and fix TF immediately.  We're speaking up now because it looks like the fix which already exists is going to be further delayed.  Second, we aren't asking Carbine to drop everything.  We're asking Carbine to not bundle the bugfixes with the content drop, and continue with their normal bugfixing schedule instead of bundling it up with a content drop.
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{| class="blockquote"
As a pretty dedicated forum watcher, what do you want me to say?  People complained about bugs, they complained about them prioritizing content over bugs, they complained about everything under the sun, and complained about Carbine not telling us anything.
 
So they dropped a post informing us what was going on and explaining that they've listened and are going to make sure everything works together first because of all the bug reports and such, and they get nailed for that, too.
 
And this is why we don't get Carbine to ever tell us what's going on.  Why should they?  Apparently, if they'd just said nothing, people would have continued to be patient.
 
So yeah, I see exactly what Carbine's been reading here and I know exactly where they were coming from.  What do you want me to say?  "This approach people were almost unanimous in proclaiming would be the way forward is what they should do, except for...."  It's the umbrage that is disappointing.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
A lot of things are broken right now.  Why should your particular class fix be somehow more important than the PVP fixes which are also on the PTR?  Why do you think that's not being hurriedly patched in? It seems to be popular, it's been complained about being broken since launch, and a LOT more people PVP than there are Spellslingers.  What do you want them to do?
 
I'm sorry if you want me to put that particular problem on a pedestal over everything else, but it completely negates what everyone's been asking for with bugs.  Seriously, where do you think these things come from?  What makes you think that trigger fingers fix is the one thing that definitely isn't holding back the patch, regardless of how long it's been around?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I haven't seen one person, let alone the majority of forum posters, ask for bug fixes to be delayed to ensure they work with a content drop that has yet to be applied to the live servers.
 
Carbine isn't doing what the players are asking for in this case. 
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{| class="blockquote"
What makes you think that trigger fingers fix is the one thing that definitely isn't holding back the patch, regardless of how long it's been around?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Have you ever heard something you didn't want to hear? That's completely possible.
 
I appreciate carbine for coming out and telling us the plans but that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on them.
 
It's pretty evident you're in the minority here and you can argue until you're blue in the face but the bottom line is the vast majority of the players still left playing this game are extremely unhappy and this isn't going to fix ANYTHING.
 
Telling people to wait another month for fixes is probably one of the dumbest ideas they've ever had.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Again, no one is asking for one specific thing to be fixed before all else - we're asking for the game fixes to go in before the next content drop.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Would you really like me to go looking for any post that's said Carbine should knock off the constant updates and just do the bug fixes, even if it means they don't keep to the monthly schedule.
 
I mean, I can, but I'm assuming you're being pedantic.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Trigger fingers is an easy example to relate to his (our) argument.
 
Again, no one is asking for one specific thing to be fixed before all else - we're asking for the game fixes to go in before the next content drop.
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{| class="blockquote"
Why should your particular class fix be somehow more important than the PVP fixes which are also on the PTR? 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
To be fair, I kind of am. But I may be the only one.
 
No reason to hold it against the rest of you :D
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{| class="blockquote"
The content isn't done.
 
The post explicitly states they are holding The Defile and the bug/systems changes back to ensure that they both work together.  Nothing about that sounds like the content is done.  If they aren't 100% sure that The Defile will work on live without presenting more problems - that isn't finished content ready to go.  I do not want to wait for the bugs/system changes any longer.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I literally didn't say that in my post at all.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What did you guys think was the solution for the bugs-on-top-of-bugs problem?  Things like this were going to be slowed down.  If you want your bug fix to be excluded from this new system people are asking for, fine.  I hope you get what you want.  But it's seriously disheartening to hear Carbine doing exactly what they were asked to do (slow down the cycle and just fix everything) and everyone's jumped on them as if this came out of nowhere.  For even someone who splits time between a Spellslinger and a Warrior, this is a bit rich.  I'm constantly surprised by what people think happens when they get what they ask for.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Can you please provide a source?  Because the post I am reading, which explicitly says they are delaying content to add more bug fixes and system changes, does not appear to be the one you are reading.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm not asking for special treatment.  I'm asking for Carbine to go forth with their original bug fix schedule which would have resulted in a patch on August 26 fixing a lot of things for a lot of players and classes, instead of bundling bug fixes with system changes and content drops.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Vic, you are completely misreading the intent of what people are asking for.  We are not on the same page in the discussion here.
 
The bug fixes - that work RIGHT NOW on PTR - are being delayed to ensure they work with "The Defile" content drop.
 
We are not asking for them to delay "patches" - we are/have asked them to delay adding new content to the game in favor of fixing existing issues on the live servers.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Do you know what else is RIGHT NOW on PTR?  The Defile content drop.  So if your bug fixes are working on the PTR, then they are working with the Defile.
----
			
The more I read on these forums the more I feel I should just give up on this game, even if I am still having fun.
Things like :
 
{| class="blockquote"
How much time you ask? That’s an excellent question! We’re going to take the time to make sure that this next patch is not only badass but bug free. I’ll update you again shortly with the list of details on what’s being addressed in the game and the timeframe. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Vic, you are completely misreading the intent of what people are asking for.  We are not on the same page in the discussion here.
 
The bug fixes - that work RIGHT NOW on PTR - are being delayed to ensure they work with "The Defile" content drop.
 
We are not asking for them to delay "patches" - we are/have asked them to delay adding new content to the game in favor of fixing existing issues on the live servers.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
If you aren't reading his post as the devs saying "In order to release The Defile and all of the bug fixes and feedback changes together we're going to have to delay all of it" I'm not sure we have anything further to discuss.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You thought it was the Sabotage BG that caused bugs?  Bug fixing on a fast schedule causes them.  If you want your fixes off the new system, that's fine, but if it causes bugs, you can't complain.  This kind of thing is why they're doing this in the first place.
 
Honestly, if we're going by sheer importance, things like TF and warrior threat aren't affecting more people and causing them to leave.
 
As I said, hope you get your fix since I didn't ask personally for work to come to a halt on everything to integrate everything.  Don't expect me to get on Carbine if they don't or if things break due to it.  This is exactly what they were asked to change.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Then why is it being delayed?
 
Hint: Because it isn't finished.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Delaying for integration testing is something that would happen whenever they pulled more changes into the patch, regardless of what was already there.  You should be taking issue with the things they are pulling in, not the thing that is already there.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Seriously.. new content is cool and all but if I can't even play my *cupcake*ing because half of my spells are bugged I think that should take top priority.
I understand they have different departments but holy shit..fix the *cupcake*ing bugs already.
 
 
 
Maybe if they said something along those lines instead of being extremely vague about everything?
 
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{| class="blockquote"
You thought it was the Sabotage BG that caused bugs?  Bug fixing on a fast schedule causes them.  If you want your fixes off the new system, that's fine, but if it causes bugs, you can't complain.  This kind of thing is why they're doing this in the first place.
 
Honestly, if we're going by sheer importance, things like TF and warrior threat aren't affecting more people and causing them to leave.
 
As I said, hope you get your fix since I didn't ask personally for work to come to a halt on everything to integrate everything.  Don't expect me to get on Carbine if they don't or if things break due to it.  This is exactly what they were asked to change.
----
			PS I love Wildstar, but I will be playing Smite until the pvp is fixed. Like really fixed, not just meh kinda fixed.	
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{| class="blockquote"
It is being delayed for the attunement changes, for the rune slot changes, for all the changes that have happened because of feedback in the last month that people want yesterday.  J-Tal is posting new design decisions about the rune slot changes daily, and has told us that it will be in the next major patch.  The design isn't even done yet, let alone implementation or testing, and it is slated for Drop 3.  But people are pointing fingers at the content, and not last minute system changes like that one, for the delay.  It boggles the mind.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It is being delayed for the attunement changes, for the rune slot changes, for all the changes that have happened because of feedback in the last month that people want yesterday.  J-Tal is posting new design decisions about the rune slot changes daily, and has told us that it will be in the next major patch.  The design isn't even done yet, let alone implementation or testing, and it is slated for Drop 3.  But people are pointing fingers at the content, and not last minute system changes like that one, for the delay.  It boggles the mind.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Then why is it being delayed?
 
Hint: Because it isn't finished.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
People said stop releasing content if it's just going to break the game and take you months to fix it.
So what they did is just delay everything, that's not what we asked.
 
stop white knighting the devs, they don't pay you, you pay them.
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{| class="blockquote"
PS I love Wildstar, but I will be playing Smite until the pvp is fixed. Like really fixed, not just meh kinda fixed.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Here, Scerick.
 
 
 
 
It's not content.
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{| class="blockquote"
^  this
 
So basically people are arguing in this thread because they want The Defile cause that's about the only thing that's ready.  For some reason they think all the redesigned systems they just started working on a week or two ago are done.  The Defile has been being worked on since before launch.
 
I think the main problem is people don't understand how long it actually takes to design and implement things in a video game.
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{| class="blockquote"
^  this
 
So basically people are arguing in this thread because they want The Defile cause that's about the only thing that's ready.  For some reason they think all the redesigned systems they just started working on a week or two ago are done.  The Defile has been being worked on since before launch.
 
I think the main problem is people don't understand how long it actually takes to design and implement things in a video game.
 
Edit:  If the game causes you to get so emotional at the devs just do everyone a favor and take a break.  Don't act like a child and storm off saying you'll never come back if the game isn't perfect NAOWWWW.  Act like an adult, take a break, come back a few months down the road and see if they fixed it the way you wanted.  This need for instant gratification is ridiculous.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The entire time I have been posting in this thread I have been asking for bug fixes to game breaking issues existing on the live servers as we speak at the expense of waiting longer for The Defile.  How you are reading anything else in my posts completely baffles me.
 
Again..
 
Bug Fixes > Then System Changes > Then The Defile.
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{| class="blockquote"
 
I'm 99% sure we're arguing the same point, just from different angles... lol
 
 
My concerns:
 
Large patches leave more room for errors.
Bug fixes are more important than system changes or new content.
Delaying bug fixes or systems changes for the sake of including them with a content drop seems backwards to me.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Do you know the quickest way to delay the next patch even more?  Remove The Defile.  Because they would have to retest everything. 
 
I don't know why the Trigger Fingers bug was triaged to a content drop instead of a weekly patch or hotfix.  Perhaps you should read through Cougar's post about patch types that I linked earlier.  But any additional delays to the content drop and your bug fix aren't the fault of The Defile.  They are the additional bug fixes and system changes being pulled into the content drop because of feedback and user experience.
----
			
While it's certainly great news to hear that they are going to fixing some the major issues many of us are having but on the other hand it's depressing to know that it will take 1-2 months before any thing might happen.
 
Can anyone explain exactly why there can't be incremental, small patches instead of doing a MEGA drop patch that will more than likely have a ton of bugs?
 
I been waiting month now for you to do some thing about pvp healing in BGs, all you have to do is lower the 53% debuff by 10-20% and that might very well make healing useful again in pvp. How long could a change like that really take? You can't break PvP any more than it already is!
 
Last thought, I play a b2p MMO and a f2p indie shooter 'mmo light': both have had triple or more the patches in the last 3 months than in this p2p MMO. Yea...ok.	
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{| class="blockquote"
How much time you ask? That’s an excellent question! We’re going to take the time to make sure that this next patch is not only badass but bug free.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think what's being lost is that I'm not arguing against what you're basically saying, that you want bug fixes that are working now to be kind of dropped in, then an integration set aside.  I'm sort of arguing that, honestly, TF is less important than fixing the PVP gear gap that's creating an exploit for PVP.  So what comes first?  That system change is more important than the TF bug.
 
However, the TF bug may be easier to implement.
 
The problem is, bug fixing creates bugs if you do it too quickly.  I really don't mind if they give you what you want since I was all for the schedule before (I didn't get too many game breaking bugs and I want people to be happy).  But something's going to be ground in the gears and that may well be TF.  What they're doing is putting off the content drop until they get other stuff integrated into it rather than dropping it and integrating the stuff afterwards into it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think what's being lost is that I'm not arguing against what you're basically saying, that you want bug fixes that are working now to be kind of dropped in, then an integration set aside.  I'm sort of arguing that, honestly, TF is less important than fixing the PVP gear gap that's creating an exploit for PVP.  So what comes first?  That system change is more important than the TF bug.
 
However, the TF bug may be easier to implement.
 
The problem is, bug fixing creates bugs if you do it too quickly.  I really don't mind if they give you what you want since I was all for the schedule before (I didn't get too many game breaking bugs and I want people to be happy).  But something's going to be ground in the gears and that may well be TF.  What they're doing is putting off the content drop until they get other stuff integrated into it rather than dropping it and integrating the stuff afterwards into it.
----
			
Carbine, I'm really happy to see you examining and changing your process. But please remember agile development, and make sure that you don't bite off more than you can chew in a single update. Adding too much content at once could result in disaster and delays.
 
As always (though perhaps not outspoken), I support your game and the things you are doing with it. People are complaining too much, saying too many things that they know too little about. Just keep putting the hours into your game, fix the bad parts, clean up the codebase, resolve the bugs, push out the content that people want.
 
Put in the hours, and don't release something if you aren't ready by the deadline. We're happy to wait another 2-4 weeks if it means a more solid overall experience. People are impatient and bratty, but they like your game a lot. They're complaining because it isn't everything they dreamed of. I think it will be one day though.
 
Keep marching, and I'm sure your subs will be back on the rise in a few months.	
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Lmao, I'm not asking them to remove the defile - I am asking them to not delay what is working and known to fix current issues on live for the sake of adding new content and/or systems changes.
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Lmao, I'm not asking them to remove the defile - I am asking them to not delay what is working and known to fix current issues on live for the sake of adding new content and/or systems changes.
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Carbine, I'm really happy to see you examining and changing your process. But please remember agile development, and make sure that you don't bite off more than you can chew in a single update. Adding too much content at once could result in disaster and delays.
 
As always (though perhaps not outspoken), I support your game and the things you are doing with it. People are complaining too much, saying too many things that they know too little about. Just keep putting the hours into your game, fix the bad parts, clean up the codebase, resolve the bugs, push out the content that people want.
 
Put in the hours, and don't release something if you aren't ready by the deadline. We're happy to wait another 2-4 weeks if it means a more solid overall experience. People are impatient and bratty, but they like your game a lot. They're complaining because it isn't everything they dreamed of. I think it will be one day though.
 
Keep marching, and I'm sure your subs will be back on the rise in a few months.
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God oh god, why did you say that, honestly, you have not sent out a single patch that has not broken a tun of  things, now you want to bundle a tun more into one and say this?! Baby steps, work on just getting patches out that don't mess up a tun and work your way to great patches that only need a little fix after... but dear god, don't ever say bug free, please redo your post, this is going to bite you in the butt for months.
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That's what we're telling you.  It's the content that's finished but is now on hold until everything else is fixed, bugs and systems alike.
 
Nobody minds if bugs that don't break anything are hotfixed.  May your TF fix get dropped early.  But something's going to get ground up in the gears, and we asked for better integrated drops and bug fixes.
 
Nobody's going to complain if Carbine thinks they can add bug fixes reliably on that schedule.  But this is the price of slowing down the patches and having better-integrated bug fixes.  Dropping things that work on the ground first.  If it takes a while to come out, I wouldn't think it's Carbine's bad decision making.
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I really am trying to make a bigger picture argument than just SS bugs.
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Hey all,
 
So a lot of folks have been speculating about our next drop and I wanted to talk about it in detail.
 
The plan was to roll out a zone next month, and a pretty badass one at that. The new zone and its contents not only sets up the epic ongoing world story of WildStar, but provides more group and solo content along with costumes, items, etc. What we hadn’t planned for was the mountain of feedback. You guys have been vocal about everything from bugs, early level content, attunement, PvP and Elder Game. And we were listening.
 
Because of that, we decided to make a change. We are adding a month’s worth of feedback and bugfixes to the mix based on player feedback and user experiences. These are changes to core systems such as economy, classes, PvP, crafting - you name it. We’re knocking out bugs and making changes to improve your gameplay experience. We want to roll these issues into the patch with the new zone content and that’s going to take some more time.
 
How much time you ask? That’s an excellent question! We’re going to take the time to make sure that this next patch is not only badass but bug free. I’ll update you again shortly with the list of details on what’s being addressed in the game and the timeframe.
 
And from the entire team, thanks for your continued patience and support. We can’t do this without you.
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If they can do that and not break a single thing, more power to them and good luck to you.  People wanted a lot less bugs, they're going to be a LOT more careful about what they drop.  I don't have particular sympathy for any specific person, and if we went general, EVERYTHING is a major problem to someone.  Gear drop fixes, PVP gap fixes, even the TF fix, I'm not going to discriminate, and other things are also important.  Once you've let everyone have a go saying what they want implemented to fix their experience, you're right back to where we are, and Carbine would have been better off not saying or doing anything different.
 
And people have been screaming for them to do this, simply that they weren't prepared for the consequences.  That means someone's fix is going to wait until they're 100% sure.  That may be TF.  I'm surely not going to hold any one thing over the rest.
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Both of you keep focusing on "Trigger Fingers" - Guys Trigger Fingers is one tree in the forest of bugs - and one myself and posters like SlyJeff can easily point to because we're reminded of it every time we log in.  That doesn't change the fact that there are PvP gear changes, healing changes, warrior changes, and many other changes already on the PTR.
 
No one qualified (sorry but none of us are qualified) has made a logical argument or given a logical explanation as to why we can't have our fixes now in lieu of waiting for additional fixes and systems changes to also be included.  And to further that point no one qualified has illustrated that bugs that have existed since beta and bugs introduced with drop 2 would be fixed before the content drop.  The way that post is written infers we will have to wait even longer for the fixes they had already completed or were already working on.
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Both of you keep focusing on "Trigger Fingers" - Guys Trigger Fingers is one tree in the forest of bugs - and one myself and posters like SlyJeff can easily point to because we're reminded of it every time we log in.  That doesn't change the fact that there are PvP gear changes, healing changes, warrior changes, and many other changes already on the PTR.
 
No one qualified (sorry but none of us are qualified) has made a logical argument or given a logical explanation as to why we can't have our fixes now in lieu of waiting for additional fixes and systems changes to also be included.  And to further that point no one qualified has illustrated that bugs that have existed since beta and bugs introduced with drop 2 would be fixed before the content drop.  The way that post is written infers we will have to wait even longer for the fixes they had already completed or were already working on.
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If they can't tweak numbers on gear (which the PvP gear change is) without adding unintentional bugs, the dev team is full of bad people. If it's full of bad people, we should jump ship and find a game made by good people.
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			Carbine has lowered so much the standards in support for paying customers that we think that is normal to have only ONE fix a month instead of TONS of fixes as soon as possible as it should be.	
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			that's not a matter of what come first... all those are breaking game bugs and should be issued NOW (like all the bugs that prevent you completing a quests or the bosses of istance that resets themself ad infinitum and you must only disband and restart on the usual route, even if a developer encouraged you to try alternate routes)	
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that's not a matter of what come first... all those are breaking game bugs and should be issued NOW (like all the bugs that prevent you completing a quests or the bosses of istance that resets themself ad infinitum and you must only disband and restart on the usual route, even if a developer encouraged you to try alternate routes)
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As far as I know, this hasn't changed significantly in the switch from beta to live.
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The way his post reads made it sound like this portion was changing.  The entire point of all of my attention and posts in this thread is to voice my concern that holding fixes from weekly updates to be included in the content drop isn't okay.
 
At the end of the day - I am not okay with a lot of things in WildStar.  The change to their patch schedule (assuming we will in-fact be waiting until the entire content drop for all of the things already fixed on the PTR) is just one more nail in the coffin for me.
 
You can argue all you want that Carbine is doing everything right and not squandering their opportunity to have a solid mmo with a solid playerbase - but that won't cause me to re-activate my subscription.  Carbine will see the loss of income from my sub, and many others.  Hopefully they are also looking at the forums to establish what issues are causing people to leave the game.
 
I post here complaining because I love the idea of the game and hope things will change for the better earning my subscription back.
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I'm just saying, people wonder why Carbine doesn't talk to us.  That's it.  People say they leave because there are too many bugs, when they hit the brakes to fix it all, people say they leave because Carbine hit the brakes.  And they catch Hell, in the meantime, for not telling people what they're doing anywhere else.
 
I'm not defending them per se, but I feel sorry for them.  They are doing great as a small development house and they're trying, so hard, to listen to us.  Only to find out, later, they won't make anyone happy.
 
So why tell us what they're doing?  Just be like Blizz.  Say it'll get fixed whenever it's fixed and it'll be ready when it's ready.
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I'm just saying, people wonder why Carbine doesn't talk to us.  That's it.  People say they leave because there are too many bugs, when they hit the brakes to fix it all, people say they leave because Carbine hit the brakes.  And they catch Hell, in the meantime, for not telling people what they're doing anywhere else.
 
I'm not defending them per se, but I feel sorry for them.  They are doing great as a small development house and they're trying, so hard, to listen to us.  Only to find out, later, they won't make anyone happy.
 
So why tell us what they're doing?  Just be like Blizz.  Say it'll get fixed whenever it's fixed and it'll be ready when it's ready.
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I'm just saying, people wonder why Carbine doesn't talk to us.  That's it.  People say they leave because there are too many bugs, when they hit the brakes to fix it all, people say they leave because Carbine hit the brakes.  And they catch Hell, in the meantime, for not telling people what they're doing anywhere else.
 
I'm not defending them per se, but I feel sorry for them.  They are doing great as a small development house and they're trying, so hard, to listen to us.  Only to find out, later, they won't make anyone happy.
 
So why tell us what they're doing?  Just be like Blizz.  Say it'll get fixed whenever it's fixed and it'll be ready when it's ready.
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You can argue all you want that Carbine is doing everything right and not squandering their opportunity to have a solid mmo with a solid playerbase - but that won't cause me to re-activate my subscription.
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So why tell us what they're doing?  Just be like Blizz.  Say it'll get fixed whenever it's fixed and it'll be ready when it's ready.
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Are you fully aware of what the PVP gear gap issue is?  Or how Carbine runs gear lists with their stats?
 
Serious question, I don't want to launch into a long lecture to explain it all.
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Carbine has lowered so much the standards in support for paying customers that we think that is normal to have only ONE fix a month instead of TONS of fixes as soon as possible as it should be.
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i dunno if you work or not or if you earn your money or not. But if you do and you do mistakes evryday and fall behind your schedule you will not give a hugs and a welcome.
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What's the reason for delaying those things an extra month? I don't get it.
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You do know they've never done one bug fix a month. It's been a pretty weekly thing, sometimes twice a week. This is normal with games and software in general.
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Dear god, you know what people: If you can't wait for these fixes, just unsub for a month.
 
Why is it always "IF YOU DON'T GET ME WHAT I WANT ASAP I AM GONE FOREVER"?
The game is going nowhere if you just take a break.
Probably not even if every single player decided to take a month long break.
It will cost poor Carbine loads of money, but it won't destroy everything.
If you can't handle playing the game in its current state, be back later.
 
Why even threaten to completely cut ties like this? Is this what your attention span amounts to? A little break and you'll suddenly lose all interest in a game you previously enjoyed?I just don't understand these posts.	
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That the thing, I'm not even arguing that.  I saw people blaming the patch delay on the new content and sought to correct that, when it was clearly stated the new content wasn't delaying the patch. 
 
I do understand the pain of living with long term bugs, the Bolt Caster one was particularly bad and took them several months to fix.  But your issue shouldn't be with new content, it should be with whatever process scheduled the bug fix for the content patch.  I don't think its controversial to say that some bug fixes have lower priority than others or that Carbine has finite man power to test things with.  Given those premises, their triage system isn't unreasonable.  Additional transparency would absolutely be welcome, to explain why some high profile bugs are delayed, but all of this is rather off topic.
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did you read my reply well?
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Hey All - 
 
We want to hear everyone's feedback, but you have to be nice. Please keep your points on-topic, and forum friendly. No trolling, or topic derailing please.
 
Thanks,
Team WildStar	
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Wildstar is an example of how to kill an MMO as fast as possible.
 
Content 1 - Major bug fix patch and content drop so far, introduced even more buggs and still failed to fix bugs that existed since beta/incompletable path zones/class nerfs - community backlash
patch to fix dungeon loot - pissed off more customrs and probably the one that started the major downfall - huge community backlash
Content 2 - PVP patch that ruined PVP - even more community backlash.
Conten 3  - won't have customers when it gets released.	
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Dear god, you know what people: If you can't wait for these fixes, just unsub for a month.
 
Why is it always "IF YOU DON'T GET ME WHAT I WANT ASAP I AM GONE FOREVER"?
The game is going nowhere if you just take a break.
Probably not even if every single player decided to take a month long break.
It will cost poor Carbine loads of money, but it won't destroy everything.
If you can't handle playing the game in its current state, be back later.
 
Why even threaten to completely cut ties like this? Is this what your attention span amounts to? A little break and you'll suddenly lose all interest in a game you previously enjoyed?
I just don't understand these posts.
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your reply well? What is a reply well?
 
 
 
But they are, there's been a lot of issues fixed over the 3 months. They also have a bunch of fixes on the PTR that are great. Now how many of these things are going in a weekly patch or a monthly patch is up to Carbine.
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We want to roll these issues into the patch with the new zone content and that’s going to take some more time.
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You've been quoting me while you post, lumping me in with those complaints.
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No one wants to come back to a company that left them with a bitter taste in their mouth. Have you ever gone to a restaurant, ordered something that sounded amazing, only for it to taste awful, and be like "Okay, I'll give them another shot", then you go back with the same result? Do you keep going back to that restaurant, and think "Okay, we'll the first seven times I ate there was horrible. The 8th time MUST be different!!" No. No you didn't, because no one would do that.
 
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Shut down the game until EVERY known issue gets fixed. Then give a week free to everyone who owns the game to check the NEW state of it.
 
Game is almost unplayable anymore. Ppl spend more time in forum asking for solutions than in the game itself. Just shut it down, stop asking players to show even more patience and keep paying you in the meantime. You ll loose every one of them in the end.
 
*Btw this is not a F2P game but a P2P + box price. Just keep this in mind...	
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Shut down the game until EVERY known issue gets fixed. Then give a week free to everyone who owns the game to check the NEW state of it.
 
 Game is almost unplayable anymore. Ppl spend more time in forum asking for solutions than in the game itself. Just shut it down, stop ask players to show even more patience and keep paying you in the meantime. You ll loose every one of them in the end.
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Ahhh you are a blind fanboy  i didnt get it at first... most of the things they said they have patched are still bugged (at leat the 60%)... i think i am done with the game... reading the forum give the last hit... is like reading the posts of the players at level 15 saying that the gme is awesome...
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The 'gear fix' I'm talking about is boosting the 1200 gear stats to be competitive with the 1500/1800 gear stats. This is a balance issue, not a coding issue. If they've somehow mixed these up internally, then we go back to the part where they are bad at making games
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So read through this monster and wow, you people man. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. I'm playing one of the most broken class/job combinations in the game right now, my fixes are on the PTR too, but you know what, I can wait patiently while they hammer out the bugs and give us a quality patch. Sure I want to be a competitive tank as soon as possible, but I'd rather wait and get polished patch than just get my changes now.
 
Spellslingers - yeah the TF bug sucks but you ARE NOT hurting from it, or broken by it.
 
regardless, a lot of you (us whatever.) said they wanted more polished tested patches, they listened and now you're throwing a hissy fit because they are delaying a patch to make sure it's quality.
 
Like I said you all should be ashamed of yourselves,	
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Shut down the game until EVERY known issue gets fixed. Then give a week free to everyone who owns the game to check the NEW state of it.
 
This is getting retarded. Game is almost unplayable anymore. Ppl spend more time in forum asking for solutions than in the game itself. Just shut it down, stop asking players to show even more patience and keep paying you in the meantime. You ll loose every one of them in the end.
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There is literally zero reason to shut the game down to fix bugs.  The servers being online doesn't somehow stop the developers from being able to write code on their computers.
 
Leave it up for people who wish to continue playing.
 
Really all that needs to happen is they refocus their efforts (which they are) on fixing the base game before adding new content.  Just don't hold the fixes already on PTR back!
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Well at least I know i'm not in the minority.
 
"The new MMO WildStar lost seven spots in its second month of release — but more worryingly, gameplay was down 45.63%. We’ll see if its latest PvP game mode, Sabotage, launched on July 31, can help spur a rebound, though initial signs point towards probably not."
 
Source: http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-july-2014-summers-winners-and-losers/
 
I can only imagine how terrible the august report is going to look.	
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No, Carbine's never been more than 250 people unless you count NCSoft's support staff.  And not all those are coders.  Carbine has AAA money because of NCSoft, that doesn't make them anywhere near the size of Blizzard.  Blizzard has (at least as of 2009) over 4,000 people and 600 subsidiary staff working on nothing but World of Warcraft.  Hell, according to the article, they have 51 artists.  That means WoW's concept art department is a quarter the size of Carbine.  They're not big.
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Well at least I know i'm not in the minority.
 
"The new MMO WildStar lost seven spots in its second month of release — but more worryingly, gameplay was down 45.63%. We’ll see if its latest PvP game mode, Sabotage, launched on July 31, can help spur a rebound, though initial signs point towards probably not."
 
Source: http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-july-2014-summers-winners-and-losers/
 
I can only imagine how terrible the august report is going to look.
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If you really want to compare Carbine to Blizzard - explain to me why they are charging the same price for 1/20th the development team?
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