149418-carbine-remove-faction-barrier-please-and-thank-you

== Content ==
			
Carbine, please keep the faction barrier.
No stinky Aurins in my team.	
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			I don't think there are plans to release this on Steam. And, I'm not sure that Dominion and Exiles would get along. A third faction might be possible, but I could see it being hated by both dom and ex and be at war with each instead of being neutral :p	
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WE NEED IT PLEASE, YOU CANT RELEASE THIS GAME ON STEAM WITHOUT REMOVING THAT THING
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			WE NEED IT PLEASE, YOU CANT RELEASE THIS GAME ON STEAM WITHOUT REMOVING THAT THING	
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I can smell defeat, the Dommie scum are about to surrender ...I'm so happy I'm going to hug a tree  :)	
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It is going to be on steam
 
http://feed.wildweave.net/en/news/previews/drop-7-destination-arcterra-first-facts-overview-1-292	
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2004 called and wants its broken idea back.  Even WoW has had trouble with hard factioning.
 
I know the re-engineering will be painful but it has to be done.  In the mean time, stop trying to make it relevant.  That's only going to damage this game further.	
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This has been something that pops up often and while the discussions aren't as massive as they used to be I feel like it's still something a lot of people would like to see changed if there will be no "meaningful gameplay"(like RvR) added. It would benefit a great deal of social structures the game has like housing, circles, guilds, and less of a divide for player pool. This is not a guaranteed way to bring in new players, but it does increase access to bodies for both sides. Lore doesn't need to really be touched much or at all really and those who truly wish to remain purist will have that choice to do so. 
 
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I don't think there are plans to release this on Steam. And, I'm not sure that Dominion and Exiles would get along. A third faction might be possible, but I could see it being hated by both dom and ex and be at war with each instead of being neutral :P
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			Please, Please, Please! I want to play with the rest of my guild without leveling up another raid ready toon, I like the one I have. This division of the player base is not necessary at all and it would help queue times.	
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I can smell defeat, the Dommie scum are about to surrender ...I'm so happy I'm going to hug a tree  :)
 
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			I could get behind losing the faction barrier for housing. Not sure on the rest of the game. 	
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I could get behind losing the faction barrier for housing. Not sure on the rest of the game. 
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I don't think the whole wall has to come down but add some trap doors, allow us to actually talk to each other, and group up for instanced content. I had a fully active dual faction guild when I started, now one side is all but extinct. I have only two choices, leave my guild or start a new toon from scratch. I really don't want to do either, and my guild could use me to fill spots in dungeons and raids but I can't even talk to them without jumping through flaming hoops.
 
You can get past the lore a number of ways.  Some of the bad guys are enemies of both factions, World bosses, Dungeons, Raids etc... we don't have to trust each other to kill common enemies. Just give me a mercenary title and let me run dungeons with everyone, banish me to some crappy city in neutral territory, I'll even give back my faction rep.
 
With the time and energy I put into learning and gearing the character I love playing I really can't stand the idea of starting over.
 
This is one thing I loved about Rift, I wasn't limited to socializing with only part of the player base at end game, each faction still has their home city but they also have neutral territory to conduct business after a certain level.	
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2004 called and wants its broken idea back.  Even WoW has had trouble with hard factioning.
 
I know the re-engineering will be painful but it has to be done.  In the mean time, stop trying to make it relevant.  That's only going to damage this game further.
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This is one thing I loved about Rift, I wasn't limited to socializing with only part of the player base at end game, each faction still has their home city but they also have neutral territory to conduct business after a certain level.
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This would be ok. If you really wan't to have faction cooperation, use C.o.G.S. or a similar 3rd party faction to do it. do NOT remove the faction barrier. You lose the faction barrier you lose the game in its entirety... It would be a radical departure from it's basis for the story and world design, and one the game couldn't survive.
 
This is why extremely few games that start with split factions ever remove the barriers. SWTOR has a similar conflict set up as the basis of their game, and they knew taking out the faction barrier would kill their game; so they used a 3rd party faction to allow cooperation at face value (with the alliance system) while keeping the faction divide. More importantly, removing the faction divide would not in any meaningful way help the games population. It would not draw in new players, nor would it keep players already here from leaving for their own reasons.
 
 
I humbly request anyone who thinks otherwise to provide a detailed and cogent explanation of what precisely removing the faction divide would do to bring in or retain players already considering leaving.
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10/10 would vote for Nazryn 2016.  Faction wall to keep out the illegals!  woo!  #notmynexus
 
#totallykiddingpleasedontshootme :D
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Carbine, please keep the faction barrier.
No stinky Aurins in my team.
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The faction divide can remain there in lore terms while you tear it down for gameplay purposes. It will increase the player pool for running PvE content, it will allow players to party up when it makes sense ("Oh, look! We are both shooting that big technophage construct! Maybe I SHOULD heal you!").
Players are smart (and sometimes apathic). They'll understand that in 'reality' the factions hate each other guts (except when they have to SHOP IN THE SAME PROTOSTAR OWNED SKY-PLOT, FIGHT THE SAME ENEMIES AND BE DIPLOMATICALLY CORRECT WITH THE LOPP).
 
You can also do the RIFT thing and make the player characters join a neutral faction that is more worried about punching the big bad guys who endanger the whole universe before giving priority to what is, in comparison, a petty galactic political squabble that poses no immediate threat to all of the universe.	
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			NO dommies in my groups. Go away with that scum.	
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I mean this is clever and all, but ultimately it's deflection. If you wan't people to take the position that destroying the crux of a games conflict, and thus primary driver of the narrative and gameplay, will "help" the game. you need to explain the evidence and reasoning very precisely. I'm happy to hear a serious, reasoned, evidence based argument for it with solid examples of effective implementation in the past.
 
But as it stands, I've NEVER seen removing factions work to make a game more popular or  keep players playing. Happy to be proven wrong, but I'll need actual evidence, and a reasonable argument before that.
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			I'm against removing as well. Maybe I'm just a pvp person, but even if there is 40 exiles and 10 dominions, I would still choose dominion for that sense of danger and excitement. However I do need to point out that we need to make Dominion look much better lorewise. Exile is this  warm hearted groups of friends and allies while the Dominion feel so cold and strict. That's why a lot of people choose exile (and aurin, i guess), dominion need to feel like a group of people worth fighting for.	
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			Please... don't.  Faction is important.. we don't need those Dommie scum mucking about in our cities..	
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2004 called and wants its broken idea back.  Even WoW has had trouble with hard factioning.
 
I know the re-engineering will be painful but it has to be done.  In the mean time, stop trying to make it relevant.  That's only going to damage this game further.
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I mean this is clever and all, but ultimately it's deflection. If you wan't people to take the position that destroying the crux of a games conflict, and thus primary driver of the narrative and gameplay, will "help" the game. you need to explain the evidence and reasoning very precisely. I'm happy to hear a serious, reasoned, evidence based argument for it with solid examples of effective implementation in the past.
 
But as it stands, I've NEVER seen removing factions work to make a game more popular or  keep players playing. Happy to be proven wrong, but I'll need actual evidence, and a reasonable argument before that.
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Have you ever been in Illium? At least on entity, there is little to no pug scene on dominion side.  
 
Reasoning is that Dominion is dead and exiles are not, thats it. 
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I think removing the faction barrier would be a good idea. 
 
Depending on how it's done, Carbine might even be able to preserve the lore aspect of it.  For example, I like how Funcom approached it.  In TSW you can communicate and group up with any player regardless of their faction, but you aren't allowed to go into the opposing faction's headquarters.  NPC's from the opposing factions will react with hostility if you tried to encroach on their territory. 
 
From a gameplay standpoint it's really nice because any player can choose whichever faction is the most aesthetically/ideologically pleasing to them and still play with their friends, even if their friends choose the opposing faction.  And because the NPC's are still unfriendly it still helps to drive the point home that, from a storytelling perspective anyway, these different factions are not "friends", despite the fact that players can still run content together.  It does all this without getting in the way of those pretty important aesthetic choices or general grouping/gameplay mechanics.  Keeping the faction thing specifically for PvP also seems to work reasonably well.
 
Being completely honest, I really couldn't give two shits less about being grouped with Chuas, Granoks, or whatever as long as I'm playing through the PvE content.	
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I hate aurin as much as the next guy, but man when I sit in a 1 hr que as a TANK/dps on domie then get a 3 mins q on exile quing as just DPS there's an issue. (same time, btw)
 
WS will always be niche and will always be a small game.  A game like WoW is fine with 2 factions since it still has ~5mil players.  WS can't sport the numbers to keep both sides balanced, especially when dominion races/story is not the more appealing side (plz no 20 page arguments about it)
 
Want to keep us in our same cities and towns?  I'm okay w/ it.  Want Wpvp so stay intact? Sure (for the 7 people who do it). but FFS let us group and do content together if we want. yeah it'll be an annoyance to group with "cat girls" all the time, but I'd rather get a q with 3 cat girls in 10-20 mins than having to wait 1hr+ as a tank to even run a vet.
 
And as someone who plays horde on wow and deals with the aurin of that game - you get used to it and stop caring after about 2 mins.	
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I hate aurin as much as the next guy, but man when I sit in a 1 hr que as a TANK/dps on domie then get a 3 mins q on exile quing as just DPS there's an issue. (same time, btw)
 
WS will always be niche and will always be a small game.  A game like WoW is fine with 2 factions since it still has ~5mil players.  WS can't sport the numbers to keep both sides balanced, especially when dominion races/story is not the more appealing side (plz no 20 page arguments about it)
 
Want to keep us in our same cities and towns?  I'm okay w/ it.  Want Wpvp so stay intact? Sure (for the 7 people who do it). but FFS let us group and do content together if we want. yeah it'll be an annoyance to group with "cat girls" all the time, but I'd rather get a q with 3 cat girls in 10-20 mins than having to wait 1hr+ as a tank to even run a vet.
 
And as someone who plays horde on wow and deals with the aurin of that game - you get used to it and stop caring after about 2 mins.
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I mean this is clever and all, but ultimately it's deflection. If you wan't people to take the position that destroying the crux of a games conflict, and thus primary driver of the narrative and gameplay, will "help" the game. you need to explain the evidence and reasoning very precisely. I'm happy to hear a serious, reasoned, evidence based argument for it with solid examples of effective implementation in the past.
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2004 called and wants its broken idea back.  Even WoW has had trouble with hard factioning.
 
I know the re-engineering will be painful but it has to be done.  In the mean time, stop trying to make it relevant.  That's only going to damage this game further.
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			The faction barrier is essential to the game storyline. Stop with this crap.	
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Worst Idear ever, i have 0 % interrest to play with Domi, unless the remove Chuas.
 
So no Faction no Chuas and we have a deal.	
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If it is like that, then I guess I'll just have to give up on ever participating. xD I am hoping that further clarification shows that isn't the case, but... aah.
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All story and plots that follows after level 22 (right in the middle of Whitevale) is picking battles with Nexus' denizens and ignoring the other faction completely until one quest in Grimvault. One quest in Grimvault. That's 24 levels in which the faction divide has only aesthetic value. Then one of the writers remembered they had two factions when working on the Defile and added about four more quests to make sure that It Meant Something.
 
Truly, the faction divide is the narrative drive of the game and not the Nexus Project for which both the planet and the game are named.
			
				
	Edited February 2, 2016 by Ildur	
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All story and plots that follows after level 22 (right in the middle of Whitevale) is picking battles with Nexus' denizens and ignoring the other faction completely until one quest in Grimvault. One quest in Grimvault. That's 24 levels in which the faction divide has only aesthetic value. Then one of the writers remembered they had two factions when working on the Defile and added about four more quests to make sure that It Meant Something.
 
Truly, the faction divide is the narrative drive of the game and not the Nexus Project for which both the planet and the game are named.
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Please... don't.  Faction is important.. we don't need those Dommie scum mucking about in our cities..
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I'm against removing as well. Maybe I'm just a pvp person, but even if there is 40 exiles and 10 dominions, I would still choose dominion for that sense of danger and excitement. However I do need to point out that we need to make Dominion look much better lorewise. Exile is this  warm hearted groups of friends and allies while the Dominion feel so cold and strict. That's why a lot of people choose exile (and aurin, i guess), dominion need to feel like a group of people worth fighting for.
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I want to have the factions =) I'm liking faction rivality (even though I have chars on both sides) =)
Just give dominion some awesome new playable char (chuas not enough :() and it will be all good =)	
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I feel obligated to voice my support for the removal of faction barriers in gameplay/instanced content - dungeons, adventures, shiphands, raids, HOUSING.
 
There's no reason to effectively cut your available playerbase in half (or worse).	
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This would be ok. If you really wan't to have faction cooperation, use C.o.G.S. or a similar 3rd party faction to do it. do NOT remove the faction barrier. You lose the faction barrier you lose the game in its entirety... It would be a radical departure from it's basis for the story and world design, and one the game couldn't survive.
 
This is why extremely few games that start with split factions ever remove the barriers. SWTOR has a similar conflict set up as the basis of their game, and they knew taking out the faction barrier would kill their game; so they used a 3rd party faction to allow cooperation at face value (with the alliance system) while keeping the faction divide. More importantly, removing the faction divide would not in any meaningful way help the games population. It would not draw in new players, nor would it keep players already here from leaving for their own reasons.
 
 
I humbly request anyone who thinks otherwise to provide a detailed and cogent explanation of what precisely removing the faction divide would do to bring in or retain players already considering leaving.
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So I was typing this out earlier, but alot of it got cut due to getting logged out the forum and the auto save I guess didn't kick in.Tried to get back in as much as I could, hope it all makes sense(I'll remember next time to put it in a doc first lmao)
 
First though, just as a quick observation it seems funny to me that most people tend to be against the idea of removal, loosening, etc simply because of Aurin and or Chua. Makes me curious if neither existed hehe...
 
Anyway *ahem*
 
I myself would be all for a loosening of the faction wall, but not a 100% removal of it. We have a number of social aspects that would greatly benefit from the unified concurrency of players like housing, dungeons, raids, community events, etc... I often see that people are equating a revision of the faction wall to be that an Aurin will walk freely in Illium and Mechari can sleep in Thayd safely, but this does not have to be the case.  Nor was that the case in the often cited Rift initially as a Defiant or Guardian could not walk into the opposing factions capital city(At the time I was playing and they had loosened the wall). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but to my knowledge and at my time of play unless it changed you had to do a full faction defection to be allowed into the opposing factions cities freely(without hostile actions and able to do quests). If Carbine wants to maintain the feud story, they can if they wish to and I can safely say that while you'll have some people who will nitpick and argue all night and day about immersion and lore, that should never take priority over game play experience. I would go as far as to say that a great deal of people (not myself) just don't give a rats butt about story when it comes to playing a game too. I've had many people that unless I was in an RP guild knew NOTHING of the story other then Exiles were cowboys and cat girls and Dominion were robots gerbil overlords.
 
The greatest hurdle as mentioned many times before sadly is how deeply rooted into the games coding the faction system is. As I recall the only reason we don't have full on mixed BGs of Dominion and Exiles fighting on the same side is actually because of technical wall. Timetraveler can come in and smack me if I'm remembering incorrectly, but I remember when this change was brought up we asked and that was the rough answer to it. IF you look further into even the PvE aspect of it we have A LOT of faction dependency mechanics like how instances initiate scripting based upon faction variable, and also how in the open world(phase content especially) a monster changes depending on who is viewing it. That would at the surface seem like its just a string of if statements to determine it, but then you also have to consider that it's a proprietary engine that god only knows what they're doing AND how said strings of scripts handle group content.
 
To be completely blunt though, Wildstar does not have the population size or the content to warrant a black and white faction division system like WoW(population for a long time, though that might be different now) or WAR(content heavily themed and functioning in). PvP wise most of the remaining PvPers for their PvP in instanced content which again unlike WAR has no effect on the factions themselves, hell you don't even get faction reputation gains for doing PvP. Housing would gain significant benefit from this change as there are some amazing builds on both sides and some people have made houses that I feel would be a delight to have both factions reside in. It'd be nice for those capped on characters and restricted to one side, but also those who they'd like to actually bring their 50 to the house. Opens up great opportunities for player run events to boot.
 
For players trying to run instanced content it makes their queue chance just as good as anyone else regardless of their faction choice. It also gets rid of the grudging feeling that comes with "I want to play with my friends, but I hate Dominion/Exile" while also mitigateing the players concern for "which faction has the most players?". To add to those previous things, some people also are burdened by the race/class combinations because they may actually like dominion/exile and or want to play with their dominion/exile friends, but they hate their choices available to them.
 
This does not take away from the faction pride and virtual prejudices from whose whom genuinely want nothing to do with an Aurin/Chua player. If people wish to remain pure and never interact with a player based on their faction choice, then by all means form a guild,circle, etc to be that way.
 
This isn't so much a "HEY! WE MERGED FACTIONS EVERYONE WILL PLAY NOW!!", but rather this is a way to improve the game play quality itself for current, potential, and future players by mitigating the effects of a divided player base in a game that can't truly justify it. IF there actually was content that justified it like open world PvP objectives, etc...I would back off, but as I said we don't even have basic elements like reputation gains from killing opposite faction members in PvP.
 
I'll admit too that honestly after that crater in whitevale I completely forget I'm fighting exiles until they're shoved in my face much later. I find myself then going "oh right...those guys..."
			
				
	Edited February 2, 2016 by Typrop	
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This would be ok. If you really wan't to have faction cooperation, use C.o.G.S. or a similar 3rd party faction to do it. do NOT remove the faction barrier. You lose the faction barrier you lose the game in its entirety... It would be a radical departure from it's basis for the story and world design, and one the game couldn't survive.
 
This is why extremely few games that start with split factions ever remove the barriers. SWTOR has a similar conflict set up as the basis of their game, and they knew taking out the faction barrier would kill their game; so they used a 3rd party faction to allow cooperation at face value (with the alliance system) while keeping the faction divide. More importantly, removing the faction divide would not in any meaningful way help the games population. It would not draw in new players, nor would it keep players already here from leaving for their own reasons.
 
 
I humbly request anyone who thinks otherwise to provide a detailed and cogent explanation of what precisely removing the faction divide would do to bring in or retain players already considering leaving.
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So I was typing this out earlier, but alot of it got cut due to getting logged out the forum and the auto save I guess didn't kick in.
Tried to get back in as much as I could, hope it all makes sense(I'll remember next time to put it in a doc first lmao)
 
First though, just as a quick observation it seems funny to me that most people tend to be against the idea of removal, loosening, etc simply because of Aurin and or Chua. Makes me curious if neither existed hehe...
 
Anyway *ahem*
 
I myself would be all for a loosening of the faction wall, but not a 100% removal of it. We have a number of social aspects that would greatly benefit from the unified concurrency of players like housing, dungeons, raids, community events, etc... I often see that people are equating a revision of the faction wall to be that an Aurin will walk freely in Illium and Mechari can sleep in Thayd safely, but this does not have to be the case.  Nor was that the case in the often cited Rift initially as a Defiant or Guardian could not walk into the opposing factions capital city(At the time I was playing and they had loosened the wall). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but to my knowledge and at my time of play unless it changed you had to do a full faction defection to be allowed into the opposing factions cities freely(without hostile actions and able to do quests). If Carbine wants to maintain the feud story, they can if they wish to and I can safely say that while you'll have some people who will nitpick and argue all night and day about immersion and lore, that should never take priority over game play experience. I would go as far as to say that a great deal of people (not myself) just don't give a rats butt about story when it comes to playing a game too. I've had many people that unless I was in an RP guild knew NOTHING of the story other then Exiles were cowboys and cat girls and Dominion were robots gerbil overlords.
 
The greatest hurdle as mentioned many times before sadly is how deeply rooted into the games coding the faction system is. As I recall the only reason we don't have full on mixed BGs of Dominion and Exiles fighting on the same side is actually because of technical wall. Timetraveler can come in and smack me if I'm remembering incorrectly, but I remember when this change was brought up we asked and that was the rough answer to it. IF you look further into even the PvE aspect of it we have A LOT of faction dependency mechanics like how instances initiate scripting based upon faction variable, and also how in the open world(phase content especially) a monster changes depending on who is viewing it. That would at the surface seem like its just a string of if statements to determine it, but then you also have to consider that it's a proprietary engine that god only knows what they're doing AND how said strings of scripts handle group content.
 
To be completely blunt though, Wildstar does not have the population size or the content to warrant a black and white faction division system like WoW(population for a long time, though that might be different now) or WAR(content heavily themed and functioning in). PvP wise most of the remaining PvPers for their PvP in instanced content which again unlike WAR has no effect on the factions themselves, hell you don't even get faction reputation gains for doing PvP. Housing would gain significant benefit from this change as there are some amazing builds on both sides and some people have made houses that I feel would be a delight to have both factions reside in. It'd be nice for those capped on characters and restricted to one side, but also those who they'd like to actually bring their 50 to the house. Opens up great opportunities for player run events to boot.
 
For players trying to run instanced content it makes their queue chance just as good as anyone else regardless of their faction choice. It also gets rid of the grudging feeling that comes with "I want to play with my friends, but I hate Dominion/Exile" while also mitigateing the players concern for "which faction has the most players?". To add to those previous things, some people also are burdened by the race/class combinations because they may actually like dominion/exile and or want to play with their dominion/exile friends, but they hate their choices available to them.
 
This does not take away from the faction pride and virtual prejudices from whose whom genuinely want nothing to do with an Aurin/Chua player. If people wish to remain pure and never interact with a player based on their faction choice, then by all means form a guild,circle, etc to be that way.
 
This isn't so much a "HEY! WE MERGED FACTIONS EVERYONE WILL PLAY NOW!!", but rather this is a way to improve the game play quality itself for current, potential, and future players by mitigating the effects of a divided player base in a game that can't truly justify it. IF there actually was content that justified it like open world PvP objectives, etc...I would back off, but as I said we don't even have basic elements like reputation gains from killing opposite faction members in PvP.
 
I'll admit too that honestly after that crater in whitevale I completely forget I'm fighting exiles until they're shoved in my face much later. I find myself then going "oh right...those guys..."
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			Or maybe it's just a matter of trust http://makeagif.com/nh1lEI  Olivar never looked so good :)
			
				
	Edited February 2, 2016 by ministabber	
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I'm fine with faction barrier as a story element and think it can stay that way with no problems, but aside from that I wholeheartidly agree with removing the barrier for all practicalities. Make us do our respective faction quests and give us our faction cities, I can even get behind keeping pvp groups seperate, but please let us group for pve and join guilds/channels together.
 
Edit: And talk to each other, that's probably worth mentioning. Really reading each others chat as gibberish doesn't even make sense when you have a common galactic language.
			
				
	Edited February 2, 2016 by Jelletje	
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			I would be open to a third faction which plays out neutral, but I'd love for it to make sense somehow. It would be weird seeing Aurin and Chua work alongside considering what happened to Arboria	
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I would be open to a third faction which plays out neutral, but I'd love for it to make sense somehow. It would be weird seeing Aurin and Chua work alongside considering what happened to Arboria
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H3rboss
Today, 11:24 PM
 
It might be weird for the small percentage of players that have any idea what you're talking about but you'd survive right? You wouldn't even come close to leaving the game because of it would you? Not even Nazryn would leave as much as he spouts the absolutely ridiculous "the game couldn't survive if the faction wall drops" crud.
 
 
What on earth are you talking about? I've mentioned half a dozen times that using C.o.G.S. (An existing neutral faction that ALREADY has all races working together) would be a great idea. That's the only serious way to accomplish this in this type of game. That's why SWTOR did that with the Alliance system, instead of removing the Sith Empire x Republic barrier. And I literally mentioned that I would "unsub and torch my system" once.... Ever.... As a joke....
 
The problem isn't not having enough to people on your faction to run content with (at least on Entity Dom and Exile) the problem is most people don't want to run it (e.g. Adventures and leveling dungeons). Incentivize doing them and more players will. But mixing factions isn't going to fix the underlying cause. Heck, on entity we had Capital raids over the weekend with both factions participating...
 
Use C.o.G.S. Like SWTOR used the alliance system to bring the factions together if you want, but remove the faction divisions and conflict and you remove the basis of the game.	
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I would be open to a third faction which plays out neutral, but I'd love for it to make sense somehow. It would be weird seeing Aurin and Chua work alongside considering what happened to Arboria
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I disagree. The Lore isn't the problem, the PR and marketing are. The Dominion lore makes it very clear that the Dominion is NOT cold, they are passionate, proud, and generally very caring and compassionate. There is a single "cold" character (Axis Pheydra, who is Avra Darkos [just as cold] counter part). Dominion Hero's like Toric, Corrigan, Ringo, even Zin are great characters and even better people (zin more so at the end of her arc). 
 
Likewise, the Exiles are not as warm and friendly (According to the lore) as people assume. E.G. The Aurin and Mordesh infighting, the Aurin are only happy all the time because unkindness is a crime, The leadership of the Exiles is hodgepodge and you're always one step away from getting yourself shot by them (remember when Brightland nearly kills you because you aren't his wife in the cryopod?).
 
That all said, in the trailers and media, the Dominion is absolutely portrayed poorly.
 
 
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EsperXIV
 
I'd like to see a neutral third party faction come into play as well, but it would be difficult without breaking up existing communities. It might be better to have a merger or have the third group function as more of a platform for content/social engagements, rather than being a unique faction people have to 'belong' to.
 
Seriously.... I can't say this enough.....
 
USE C.o.G.S.!!!!!!!!!! Do people not know what they are?
 
Coalition of Galactic Scientists (C.o.G.S.) they are the group that runs all but 2 of the adventure Sim cores, and are comprised of members of all races Dom and Ex who give up their faction to pursue exploration and knowledge. We already work with them frequently in the game, and explicitly in the adventures and at least one ship hand. We could easily use all that existing lore and gameplay to shift future dungeons, raids, and content to the frame of you are acting as an agent or affiliate of C.o.G.S. And from there working with other races isn't a stretch... It's existing canon and gameplay.
 
But again, I stress.... Chia and Aurin and Mordrsh and Mechari and Cassian and Human and Draken and Granol already all work together in C.o.G.S. Peacefully in the shared pursuit of knowledge and exploration. ALREADY!!!	
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The faction barrier just needs to die in a fire as far as gameplay goes. It is already irrelevant in many areas where both sides do the same things in the same order for basically the same people. But you can keep it for the flavor. You can make lore excuses for why the player characters work together with those filthy, filthy <insert faction here>. But you can also don't bother with them and let the Story ans the Gameplay have a segregation there for the sake of gameplay.
 
{| class="blockquote"
I would be open to a third faction which plays out neutral, but I'd love for it to make sense somehow. It would be weird seeing Aurin and Chua work alongside considering what happened to Arboria
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{| class="blockquote"
EsperXIV
 
I'd like to see a neutral third party faction come into play as well, but it would be difficult without breaking up existing communities. It might be better to have a merger or have the third group function as more of a platform for content/social engagements, rather than being a unique faction people have to 'belong' to.
 
Seriously.... I can't say this enough.....
 
USE C.o.G.S.!!!!!!!!!! Do people not know what they are?
 
Coalition of Galactic Scientists (C.o.G.S.) they are the group that runs all but 2 of the adventure Sim cores, and are comprised of members of all races Dom and Ex who give up their faction to pursue exploration and knowledge. We already work with them frequently in the game, and explicitly in the adventures and at least one ship hand. We could easily use all that existing lore and gameplay to shift future dungeons, raids, and content to the frame of you are acting as an agent or affiliate of C.o.G.S. And from there working with other races isn't a stretch... It's existing canon and gameplay.
 
But again, I stress.... Chia and Aurin and Mordrsh and Mechari and Cassian and Human and Draken and Granol already all work together in C.o.G.S. Peacefully in the shared pursuit of knowledge and exploration. ALREADY!!!
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{| class="blockquote"
Use C.o.G.S. Like SWTOR used the alliance system to bring the factions together if you want, but remove the faction divisions and conflict and you remove the basis of the game.
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{| class="blockquote"
Carbine, please keep the faction barrier.
No stinky Aurins in my team.
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Naz - I totally see what you mean.  its not enough to just open the doors.  You need to address the reasons there's conflict between the sides before allowing more than a tiny fraction of all sides working together.  I see the problem here as, we use both Exile and Dominion forces to down world bosses.  We combine forces to work together to do events.  We're already working together through cross-faction neutrality to defeat the strongest opponents outside of raids.  Its like, the story ends with foes much bigger than each side and we all just end up kids playing in the street together.  I'd honestly love to see them branch the story out and balance the sides.  Lets see the dominion forces wading into the fire and standing in the gap between a force that imminently stands as a threat to destroy all life on the planet.  Lets see the darker side of the Exiles, the in-fighting that undoubtedly occurs when times get hard, people get scared and desperate and its everyone for themselves to survive.  Then, at the end of it, the exiles come back together at a critical point to bolster a fracturing dominion, who instead of claiming Nexus, had to sacrifice their galactic sovereignty of lies in order to preserve a difficult truth found on Nexus that was worth fighting for.  
 
So long as none of the "working together" happens prior in the main story up to 50 in the game, I could probably deal pretty well with them creating a feasible yet tenuous cease-fire in the endgame to support coop style grouping.  Housing wise- should always be faction-less.  Its Protostar.  Their alliance with both sides has more to do with plundering Nexus over getting rich playing both sides, so there's not much story-wise that shouldn't permit cross-faction housing...  especially for money!  /edit - thinking about cross-faction coop between the hoity-toitys and the peace, love and fern-gullies, I had a flashback to the dynamic portrayed in a TV show called Dharma and Greg...    just...wanted to share that with the class...   because of reasons.  :P
			
				
	Edited February 3, 2016 by Eidolon Zephyrhawk	
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{| class="blockquote"
Seriously.... I can't say this enough.....
 
USE C.o.G.S.!!!!!!!!!! Do people not know what they are?
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{| class="blockquote"
USE C.o.G.S.!!!!!!!!!! Do people not know what they are?
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Why not 'merge' them but make 'em like "alignments"(for lack of a better term) where you can still play with both factions, but have some restrictions. Like Exiles still wouldn't be able to just waltz into Illium and vice versa or have alignment-specific areas (think Dalaran) where you get insta-ported out if you try to enter; this way people don't have to be around or interact with the other other faction if they so choose, or just leave it as is and let us opt into grouping with the other faction. We already organize and communicate with the other faction for world bosses.
 
But, I'm hoping the Steam release brings in new players who hopefully choose to play Dominion. :P	
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{| class="blockquote"
The faction barrier just needs to die in a fire as far as gameplay goes. It is already irrelevant in many areas where both sides do the same things in the same order for basically the same people. But you can keep it for the flavor. You can make lore excuses for why the player characters work together with those filthy, filthy <insert faction here>. But you can also don't bother with them and let the Story ans the Gameplay have a segregation there for the sake of gameplay.
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{| class="blockquote"
 From a design standpoint, a developer said, the first question that should be asked when creating content for an MMO is, "Does this make the game more fun?"
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That's subjective really.
Removing the faction barrier makes the game for fun for some people, and less for fun for others.
It's not a question that can/should be used as argument.	
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{| class="blockquote"
That's subjective really.
Removing the faction barrier makes the game for fun for some people, and less for fun for others.
It's not a question that can/should be used as argument.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm not sure, but I think you may be misunderstanding what a lot of people want. I literally just want to be able to visit both factions' houses (yay cross-faction rp) and run instanced content regardless of faction (thus increasing the pool of potential players). A few people may be arguing for hte removal of the factions in the story, but I really doubt that's what the majority want. We just want gameplay stuff to not get shafted by a faction barrier.
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{| class="blockquote"
If properly implemented, it does make the game considerably more fun. As others have pointed out, factions are the driving point for the games narative (which basically may as well not exist without them) but more importantly, they establish player identity. Like when football teams play each other, fans are supporting their teams identity, despite the fact that both teams are playing the same game (imagine how boring sports would be if there were no teams.) With an established identity comes a culture, competition and a variety of other things that would basically cease to exist if the factions were removed.
 
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{| class="blockquote"
Oh, there's definietly an issue wit populations and faction imbalance alright.
But it does not justify the need to remove the factions altogether. That's just a symptom being used as an argument.
 
The underlying problem is how both sides are being marketed by Carbine.
The Exiles are being painted of as the good guys whereas the Dominion gets very little to no attention at all in commercials.
And please, for all that is holy (like chocolate) do not start the discussion about who are the good guys and who are the bad guys....
They're both equally bad/good.
 
Carbine needs to repaint the factions in what they truly are: 2 sides of the same coin fighting over a planet for different reasons.
And stop fluffing up the Exiles.
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{| class="blockquote"
Except in reality I can choose which team to follow and, no matter which team I follow, I can still talk, communicate and spend time with friends who chose the other team. 
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{| class="blockquote"
The only thing you can't do is directly aid the other faction, what with the two factions being at war and all.
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{| class="blockquote"
As others have pointed out, factions are the driving point for the games narative (which basically may as well not exist without them) but more importantly, they establish player identity. Like when football teams play each other, fans are supporting their teams identity, despite the fact that both teams are playing the same game (imagine how boring sports would be if there were no teams.) With an established identity comes a culture, competition and a variety of other things that would basically cease to exist if the factions were removed.
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{| class="blockquote"
*imagines a world where atheleticism and strategic skill are valued over 'team culture'*
 
Wow... that sounds like a huge improvement! ;)
 
Also gonna add that my player identity has almost ~nothing~ to do with the Dominion. Same when I used to play Horde/Alliance in WoW. My player identity has always been shaped first by my attitude (often a result of what class/race I'm playing) and second by my primary gaming roles (raider, PVPer, and builder/RP hang-on in WS).
 
I'm not arguing for the removal of factions and would be OK with adding a a simple "join as mercenary" button. But I think the worth of factions (or their necessity to some) is much overstated.
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{| class="blockquote"
With out conflict there is no growth. It's a nice dream, but the problem with dreams is they never end how you wan't them too.
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{| class="blockquote"
So basically the only thing you can't do is actually play the game with said friends on the other faction.
 
How is that fun?
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{| class="blockquote"
Why do you need a symbol and nailed-down loyalty just to have conflict? I don't understand that reasoning at all. :o  It's like some folks think the faction divide goes away and poof, we're all sitting in a patch of flowers knitting sweaters instead of continuing to PVP and raid. :P
 
Competition in PVE, based on my experiences, mostly has to do with guild vs. guild. That's what world first is about, no? Or in some situations like Challenge Modes in WoW the ladder is based on organized teams that, while they are separated by a faction divide, are still competitive within each faction (i.e. Horde still competes with Horde).
 
For PVP, I could understand using the argument that factions are very important if the game had RvR or the PVP servers weren't basically dead (and frankly I wouldn't expect to see any stripping of faction barrier on a PVP server anyhow). But in Wildstar those things are not emphasized at all. The game is actually moving farther away from PVP design and PVP culture.
 
 
Conflict would still exist without hard factions, it just wouldn't be an ideological conflict that forces people into static camps. Example: I run a board game night with friends. First game I have Jon and Dave on my side, next game I have Cate and Horace on my side. Has conflict suddenly disappeared? Is there no more game, no more rules, no more competition or desire to win? I think you'd be ~very~ hard-pressed to argue such (but am interesting in reading a solid attempt at it!)
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I'm glad you threw in the GoT reference Nazryn, I was going to use it myself in describing the concept of shifting political alliances haha.
 
I appreciate your point about Star Wars and would agree. However, it's not just that the game emphasized Empire and Republic— you have to also consder that the original trilogy has coloured people's minds even before they touched the game. Wildstar never had that, and given the emphasis on this being an Exile game in marketing (with like, almost no attention paid to the Dominion) I don't feel that burning hatred exists to anywhere near the same degree. Same with Warhammer, there's precedence that builds on the conflict between two opposing (and very different) sides. In Wildstar I find that the Dominion are just a cheap foil as far as conflict goes, and so in part because of that, I don't think getting rid of it/factions would matter much.
 
Which clarifies something I hadn't really considered before: It seems that the Exiles need the Dominion to work most effectively in a lore situation, but I don't believe the Dominion need the Exiles at all. Huh. Might have to revisit that later.
 
I think we both agree in principle that the game could use some function to improve gameplay that may diminish faction aggression, but not remove it. That's good. I'm still gonna poke you about one thing though, and it might be nitpicking semantics, but the idea of the faction conflict being a "structural" foundation for gameplay still doesn't jive with me. I would agree that it's a thematic foundation, but structural implies to me that it has some practical impact on gameplay, which I don't think it does. To support that contention I would say that the intrafaction PVP matchmaking has already begun to break down the idea of static camps, with no apparent negative fallout (that I've seen or heard of). Basically, we're seeing Dom v. Dom and Exile v. Exile conflict and as far as I can tell, people fight just as hard and have a great time doing it.
 
 
Also: editing this post as I go, I realize I'm being a lot more agreeable and less headstrong than usual. This is probably because I'm calming down after quitting a few unproductive habits, but also because you and I have agreed on so much lately. Gonna have to process that for later and maybe use the reflection to stop upsetting other posters with my grinding critiques, haha!	
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{| class="blockquote"
Let's be real here though; this game was advertised as a two faction mmorpg
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C.o.G.S. is not a one-size-fits-all organization though.  But it doesn't really matter. 
 
Pretty sure that what most people mean by removing the faction barrier is to rip out the mechanical limitations or at least not ever add new ones (like faction locking events).  People are arguing lore because the lore itself (intentionally or not) makes the faction divide look insane.
 
It's insane because the Strain narrative is far more urgent than a fight over disenfranchisement.  To get distracted by a relatively minor spat in the face of annihilation is just utter nonsense.  Yes, I would expect certain individuals (like Arwick, Durek, Avra, Phaedra, etc.) to continue to try to prosecute it but IMO they're portrayed as blind to anything but their own rage or gamesmanship.  Sure they're influential but they aren't their whole faction.  At the end of the day most sane people can see their dysfunction.
 
The whole wishy-washy both sides are grey schtick just doesn't work in light of that.
 
Lore is the most mutable asset they have.  If Carbine decides to do something about factions changing that is far easier than what it'll take to change the engine.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't feel that burning hatred exists to anywhere near the same degree.
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{| class="blockquote"
Doing instanced content / chatting with the other faction isn't "the faction divide". The factions being seperate and in conflict is "the faction divide". To remove the faction divide means one of two things: removing factions completely (no more Exiles or Dominion) or allowing all races on both factions.
 
If what you mean to say is you wan't cross faction group finders and to remove the silly chat embargo, then say that. Don't reffer to just those as if they are the faction divide....
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Looking over some of the replies so far, here's one possible way to approach the problem, if anyone is interested:
 
Premises (can't be perfectly objective but I'm trying):
 
Do factions matter? Yes, for a lot of established non-physical gameplay reasons like lore, player motivation, contrastive device, thematic flavour for cosmetics, narrative consistency, etc.
 
Do factions matter for physical gameplay, and by that I mean do factions enhance the acts of combat or building in terms of skill, challenge, uniqueness, etc.? Not that I've heard of so far. To clarify, which faction you belong to does not inherently (disregarding things like current population imbalance) have any affect on raids, dungeons, expeditions, PVP, contracts, daily zones, or plot construction.
 
 
So then, what's more important right now for the health of the game, physical gameplay or non-physical gameplay? (I'll not use the word 'fun' in place of 'health', because it seems too subjective and loaded, but most people seem to agree that the game isn't in great health and would be better if healthier-- and by healthier I mean more population and income).
 
Following this, what do the majority of MMO gamers value most? What is a gamer likely to tell their friends about? What is likely to be the focus of critical reviews? What has a greater impact on retention?
			
				
	Edited February 3, 2016 by EsperXIV	
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{| class="blockquote"
Depends what your definition of play is. If it is RP'ing with them on your plot then you can't, if it's doing dungeons/raids you can't, if it's doing world events/bosses or dancing on the beach in your underwear then you can.
 
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The mechanical argument for a faction divide is that it promotes open-world PvP.  In my experience this just doesn't seem to work as well as people think it should.  There will be a faction imbalance.  Unless the difference is small it's only a matter of time before one faction simply dominates.
 
That is not a condemnation of open world PvP but it is one of hard factions.  IMO a better approach would be to designate contested areas that when individuals or groups enter they get assigned to a "side" in a round-robin fashion.	
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{| class="blockquote"
"If you don't like the game in the current state, then leave!" is one of the attitudes that convinced a lot of people to move out to other games. So if what you want is to bolster the population, you are doing it wrong.
 
You know what other game was advertised as having two factions? RIFT. Then at some point they wisened up and removed the faction barrier, allowing players of both factions to run content together, be in the same guild, be in the same parties . You know how much the lore suffered from it? Nothing at all. Did it become a different type of game? No, it didn't. You know why? Because the faction divide accomplished absolutely nothing. Just like in this game.
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{| class="blockquote"
Make another toon on the other faction.... I have 4 50's (2 Ex, 2 Dom) and I'm literally the most anti-alt player I know... Nothing is preventing you from doing that. 
 
If you want X-faction queues that's fine too (has nothing to do with the faction divide), and if you wan't to make my life easier by not making me partially report every exile /say as spam to read it at WB's that's fine too (there's no factional or lore reason the two can't understand eachother).
 
But the Factions MATTER for EVERY aspect of this game. From the RP to the Raids, you have an impotent impetus for gameplay with out them and their conflict. People act (or maybe are ignorant) of the fact that the strain - drusera arc is directly and inexorably linked to the faction conflict; that the Drusentiy is the Eldan ascended (thus the true god of the Dominion).... 
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{| class="blockquote"
Except I can't actually talk with them without a third party addon that might stop working and stop being updated. And I can't heal them. Or receive their heals. So in practice all I can do is go to the beach and dance naked with them.
 
Incidentally, what a weird little example of a cross-faction activity. You must think people who want cross-faction interactions are weirdos.
 
 
"If you don't like the game in the current state, then leave!" is one of the attitudes that convinced a lot of people to move out to other games. So if what you want is to bolster the population, you are doing it wrong.
 
You know what other game was advertised as having two factions? RIFT. Then at some point they wisened up and removed the faction barrier, allowing players of both factions to run content together, be in the same guild, be in the same parties . You know how much the lore suffered from it? Nothing at all. Did it become a different type of game? No, it didn't. You know why? Because the faction divide accomplished absolutely nothing. Just like in this game.
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{| class="blockquote"
I do have characters on both factions. Their isolated in resources and, when I choose to play them, isolated from a huge chunk of my friends. It's not fun.
 
Why are you STILL acting like we want to remove factions from the story????
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I haven't seen anyone in this thread actually advocating for no more Dominion or Exile factions in lore. I HAVE seen you arguing with people because you're using a definition of "faction divide" that is completely different from what everyone else in this thread is using, though, which makes people interpret your posts as you don't want any cross-faction anything. xD
 
It's okay! You're trying to argue against something that no one is actually asking for...	
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{| class="blockquote"
I haven't seen anyone in this thread actually advocating for no more Dominion or Exile factions in lore. I HAVE seen you arguing with people because you're using a definition of "faction divide" that is completely different from what everyone else in this thread is using, though, which makes people interpret your posts as you don't want any cross-faction anything. xD
 
It's okay! You're trying to argue against something that no one is actually asking for...
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In case they're listening to this argument, I'm 100% for allowing cross-faction dungeons and raids and housing.
 
Sure there is still a faction storyline, and keep it because it's a fun way to start a story and too expensive to change now.  But hey, there comes a point as the story develops where I'm more scared of the Strain eating my brain and zombifying me than a little squeaky Chua or gross Mordesh.  Can you pick up a gun and/or heal me?  Then gear up, we're going to fight the *real* bad guys.
 
I'm amazed at purists who will not bend, or find it unacceptable to play with the other faction?  Dangerous thinking in a niche game to split the playerbase.  Alliances change in war against a common enemy.  And game-wise I just want my queues to pop.  Sure it might be strange to have an "enemy" esper healing me, but I'll grin and bear it because I want to play with as many people as I can.
 
In my time I played RIFT, I didn't even know or care there was a faction divide at the end.  What I did know is that my dungeon daily queues were popping very fast and I was enjoying playing with folks.
 
TLDR: Go the RIFT/TSW route.  Factions fine but group play over all.  I have Chua friends, I have Mordesh friends.  All good people I want to play with without restriction.	
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{| class="blockquote"
You're going to tell me that *no one* has, in these fora, advocated for opening up the factions to allow Exile Chua and Dominion Aurin? 
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{| class="blockquote"
If properly implemented, it does make the game considerably more fun. As others have pointed out, factions are the driving point for the games narative (which basically may as well not exist without them) but more importantly, they establish player identity. Like when football teams play each other, fans are supporting their teams identity, despite the fact that both teams are playing the same game (imagine how boring sports would be if there were no teams.) With an established identity comes a culture, competition and a variety of other things that would basically cease to exist if the factions were removed.
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I am all for lessening the faction wall, letting us group for dungeons, chat without a translator, visit each others housing plots, send each other mail, etc. I just think that we should have the option to group up, chat  and do business in some "neutral" territory.
 
The removal of the barrier would help my specific situation greatly but in supporting that idea I certainly do not mean that there should be an overhaul so extreme to mean Exile Chuas or Dominion Aurins.
 
More of an agreement between the factions that we sometimes have bigger problems than each other and if we need to team up to kill the common enemy so be it.
 
But seriously the division of the player base could still dissolve without the race/faction wall crumbling.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I haven't seen anyone in this thread actually advocating for no more Dominion or Exile factions in lore.
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I don't want the factions gone, personally. I just want the mechanical divide to dissapear because they are a huge hassle for no real benefit. Not in the current implementation. The only way the faction divide can make mechanical sense is if they start enforcing PvP and redesign large chunks of the game to accomodate it, and I don't think that's a good idea for a plethora of different reasons (the main one being: if Wildstar's players wanted PvP, those servers wouldn't be so fabolously empty).
 
Though with that dungeon lockout thing they announced for the new area, they might be going in that direction.
			
				
	Edited February 3, 2016 by Ildur	
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{| class="blockquote"
I wouldn't disagree that a faction barrier can be fun, but not solely on its own.  It's something that needs legs to stand on and the gameplay to support it.  Look at games like Dark Ages of Camelot or Planetside 2.  Those are both games that have faction barriers, but they are intrinsic to the gameplay since the primary focus of the game is the factions fighting against each other over contested content.
 
In Wildstar (and a lot of other MMOs that followed WoW's model), the faction barrier is little more than a story construct.  The amount of time you actually spend interacting with the opposing faction is very minimal and its primary role as far as gameplay goes is to facilitate PvP - and that, alone, isn't strong enough to support it.  BGs/Arena have already done away with faction vs. faction, and in the nearly two years the game has been out, nothing has been done to give World PvP purpose as there really isn't much as far as contested content goes.
 
All of which leaves me with the opinion that the faction barrier as it exists in Wildstar does more harm than good.  The structure for it exists within the lore, but it doesn't have the gameplay to back it up.  It barely matters in PvP anymore, and primarily cuts the playerbase in half which is problematic with a game that already has population issues.
 
So, while a "team identity" may exist, it's less like two baseball teams in the MLB and more akin to having one team in the MLB and one in the NPB.  Yes, they're playing the same sport, but they rarely interact and mostly ignore each other.
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{| class="blockquote"
I said I haven't seen any post in this thread. I even went back through it after your post to check, and either I missed one or they're not there.
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{| class="blockquote"
You're going to tell me that *no one* has, in these fora, advocated for opening up the factions to allow Exile Chua and Dominion Aurin? 
 
I'll give you a free pass this time Nau, maybe you just forgot those posts in the threads over the past few weeks....
 
But make no mistake, just because YOU aren't asking for it, doesn't mean other's aren't / weren't
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{| class="blockquote"
Well be fair, I said that after Nau's post ;)
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			Well be fair, I said that after Nau's post ;)	
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			Reality won't get in the way of Nazryn's arguments, John. :p	
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			WHy does it say this thread was made by Olivar when I did it? I demand response Carbnin	
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			All your threads are belong to me!	
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{| class="blockquote"
WHy does it say this thread was made by Olivar when I did it? I demand response Carbnin
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{| class="blockquote"
Seriously. @_@ There's no need to treat me like some enemy, Nazryn.
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			I did see a couple people at the start of the thread crack some jokes, but up until John's post, I hadn't seen an outright statement of "Yeah, get rid of factions in lore". And as he pointed out, he made that post after mine. It's not like I'm some sort seer who can predict what people are going to say in future forum posts. But up until that point, you've just been arguing with people who, from what I can tell, actually agree with you.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I did see a couple people at the start of the thread crack some jokes, but up until John's post, I hadn't seen an outright statement of "Yeah, get rid of factions in lore". And as he pointed out, he made that post after mine. It's not like I'm some sort seer who can predict what people are going to say in future forum posts. But up until that point, you've just been arguing with people who, from what I can tell, actually agree with you.
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I said in my original post that no one in this thread...
 
Augh, I give up. xD	
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{| class="blockquote"
I said in my original post that no one in this thread...
 
Augh, I give up. xD
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{| class="blockquote"
I said in my original post that no one in this thread...
 
Augh, I give up. xD
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			Nevermind.
			
				
	Edited February 5, 2016 by Cantatus	
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