147497-runes-are-ruining-the-game

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Runes are hands down about to make me quit playing this game....
I  love this game. It is just fun to play. The combat , the sci fi , the humor. Everything is just fun. But I was one of the ones who quit a couple months after launch because of the business model was oppressive.It had a very mafia style feel to it, I came back with F2p to try it out again. And again the game is just fun......Then the runes....and there is the mafia again. Fxxx you  pay me..Fxxx you pay me..Fxxx you pay me...So far this month I have spent $40? on service tokens....As much as I like the game I just cannot justify that..The economy is just unrealistic. way to much money to reroll sockets...way to much money to salvage runes from gear. drop rates for fragments from salvaging gear is unrealistic.There is no way to buy rune fragments for glory.And on and on and on...Even the guys in my guild who are literally on 10 hours a day..and I am not kidding about that.Guys in my guild play like 10 hours a day.These guys are struggling to get their GA gear runed out with only suburbs.It has taken them about a month at probably 60 hours a week....I just don't think this game is for normal players...it seems to be geared towards and marketed to people who have trust funds and do not have to work and pay bills.It is fun ya....but to enjoy anything but leveling a character to 50 and doing any of the end game stuff you have to spend an unacceptable amount of real money and time. If runes and fragments were more accessible I could prolly enjoy the game but at end game it has become more of a chore than a pass time.I wish I could justify the money but that would be stupid to spend $40 a month on a Video game. I could spend more because I need to reroll sockets for new GA drops but when I looked at my bills and saw how much this was costing me I had to re examine what the hell I was doing.Maybe other people are rich but I am not. I cannot justify this .I am gonna stop raiding cause I cannot afford to raid. Lame.... 	
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I sadly didn't experience that struggle, as my char was already full bis so no need to reroll newly obtained gear on a weekly basis, and we also had a bunch of tokens giving us free runes. But, I'm pretty sure you can finish GA by runing regular dps runes in dps rune slots. you would only need to reroll air if you are already at stk cap and life because it gives hp only. Multihit/crit/critsev/vigor should all be viable with the lower item budget from ilvl100 gear.
 
As opposed to everyone who thinks 100% perfectly itemised gear is ESSENTIALS ERMAHGERD, I'm pretty sure you should not need service tokens at all and just rune basics/minors into your gear with whatever slots you get unless its life or stk above cap.
 
Yes it sucks and could be much beter, I won't argue with that, but still, minors and basics are cheap as *cupcake* see free now with the new glory to fragments, and rerolling life/air should not cost more than 40g per piece of gear, which is free considering you get that from 1 random dungeon.	
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Realy Runes set you off ? :  
There are many ways of getting rune fragments.
Renown Vendor have up to  High Runes in crafting bags. 
Glory  got up to Devine runecrafting bags.  So yes you can get runes whit glory
Prestige vendors got up to Superb Runecrafting bags.
Then ofcouse you can pick the rune crafting bags from  Challenges.  and from   filling Contracts out.
Then there is a small change when you salvage as well as from loot in the World from mobs.
And now you also can get you rune fragmets upgraded trugh a vendor. 
Where you pay whit the lower class rune fragments.  so for 12 pure runes  fragments you get 1 divine rune fragment.
As for socketing you gear and reclaiming the runes in them if you dont want to destroy em.  well Omnibits can also be used to get servis tokens. 
So the thing about . Pay us xxx pay us xxx mafia method you mention is allso not real.  
sins YOU HAVE A OPTION:!!  
Iam unimploied have almost no income and pay nothing to play this game and yet i see a way of getting stuff done i need.  yes it takes time.  But its a mmo.
You dont want to go from lvl 1 to endgame done and done  in less then a month.  becouse then you beat the game and well not much els to do then go to a nother game then.  
So buckle up and dry those qq eyes and just play and have fun. 	
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			You can buy superb rune bags from one of the glory vendors I believe the dungeon glory vendor	
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			Dungeon vendor has suberb rune bags. Raid vendor has Pure and Divine. Each bag should give you enough to craft one rune. If you're lucky you'll have the set focus from salvaging, else it's a few plat.	
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the new rune system is way better than the one we had pre f2p.
the set boni are meaningful and the encounters are not balanced around everyone running around in BiS all major runes so you can rune your ilvl96-ilvl116 pieces with minors and get 4/6+fusions / 5/6 pieces and do ok during progression. Most of the encounters are no dps race, you have to learn the mechanics and play good.
when you get ilvl120 loot you can rune those BiS to kill avatus/hard pairs/augmentors hardmode, but before that each piece should not be >2p-3p to rune. 
obv players who do it should be rewarded with maybe getting class sets first or getting the first pinky weapon. you cant force people to farm major runes (or before fragments) for days because its not needed with all the raidbuffs and nerfed encounters.
			
				
	Edited November 25, 2015 by furoflo	
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Woah there friend, I'll need you to slow down, take a deep breath and step away from your game for a day or two. Clearly, you are suffering from overexaggerationism and need to chill the *cupcake* out.
 
10 hours a day and they have problem with runing their gear? That is simply not true.
I've got 3 characters fully runed, one in Divine/Pure/Superb sets with 8/8 GA set and the other 2 in full Superb sets and I started those 3 characters when F2P hit and I play around 15-20 hours per week and I'm absolutely not being proactive.	
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			Ok so I read you guys responses and I listened. I got about 15 of the pure rune crafting bags from the raid merchant....not a single one had a major set in them...I have plenty of pure fragments and a few minors sets..but not a single major.On Entity 2 they don't even exist on the exchange...Just the opposite is true for the suberb bags....they barely have any fragments in them..We get tons and tons of majors from the world bosses...but fragments are silly hard to find...and yes I know spend your renown on the high bags and take them to the new rune exchange lady and swap them up.....did that 165,000 renown netted me about 3 or 4 suburb runes...Maybe to some of you guys this is ok....to me it sucks.If the game wasn't so fun I would quit....But it is fun to play...the thing is though. ...soon these little issues are going to outweigh the fun and there will again be an exodus ...	
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			Don't sweat the majors- use minors. Majors will come in time.	
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I think the MAIN problem with runes currently is it's not clear if going from say High Majors to Superb Minors is actually an upgrade or not. I mean the runes add say 269 to multihit from the previous tier's 200, well that's great, how much extra percent will that be? With majors I can get a full 6/6 set bonus AND a 2/2 of something else (in purple gear). So is "upgrading" to minors of the next tier actually an upgrade? If they are an upgrade is the upgrade negligible and should I just wait until I have the majors?
 
Currently I don't slot minors at all (unless I need to) because I'm not sure of the answers to the above, but I feel like minors of the next tier either aren't an upgrade, or are a negligible one and not worth wasting the time or gold on.
 
The rune system is also so confusing to new players it's not funny, I had to read/watch a few guides until it was explained properly. Now I get it it's fine, but before that yikes!	
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First of all runes are not ruining this game. The rune set exceptionals (superb, pure, divine) drop by doing the appropriate level content. Want Superb Set exceptionals, run dungeons. Want Divine Set exceptionals, run Datascape. You work toward runing with exceptionals, you don’t need them right away. 
 
 
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I think the MAIN problem with runes currently is it's not clear if going from say High Majors to Superb Minors is actually an upgrade or not. I mean the runes add say 269 to multihit from the previous tier's 200, well that's great, how much extra percent will that be? With majors I can get a full 6/6 set bonus AND a 2/2 of something else (in purple gear). So is "upgrading" to minors of the next tier actually an upgrade? If they are an upgrade is the upgrade negligible and should I just wait until I have the majors?
 
Currently I don't slot minors at all (unless I need to) because I'm not sure of the answers to the above, but I feel like minors of the next tier either aren't an upgrade, or are a negligible one and not worth wasting the time or gold on.
 
The rune system is also so confusing to new players it's not funny, I had to read/watch a few guides until it was explained properly. Now I get it it's fine, but before that yikes!
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			Ok look The fragments and the majors are nearly insignificant when it comes to re rolling slots....No one can disagree with this period...ranging from anywhere from 17g to a couple plat to roll for a random socket. I and many many others have lost well over 5 plat on 1 piece of gear! gear that at some point is going to be replaced. If you want to spend real money then you can very easily spend $5 to $10 on a freeking chest piece.depending on where you are at in the game.It is criminal.This is why they failed at launch..they try to get to much for their product.Just make the game fun and charge a realistic price for things.It is like that South Park episode with the Canadian devil ..I swear that is who is running this games business model. The Canadian devil...Again I like the game... but it cost to much money to enjoy. I want to buy cosmetics and mounts and stuff...but I simply can't that kind of stuff is not even close to being in my budget.Not to mention the BUGS!!!!!!! my scan bots haven't deployed in weeks so my path levels are too low to get a top tiered festival for some foods...When it comes down to it...I like playing this game..but GW2 might be my best option..it is looking to be the highest quality game out their atm. I don't enjoy it as much...but at least I don't feel like I am a part of someones scam. And thats what this whole thing makes me feel like.Like some greasy scam artist trying to pull some sort of scheme on me. The people running the money in this game come of as predators. Gw2 is not as much fun...but there are less bugs less glitches a realistic business model and I dont feel like I am being scammed when I spend some money on their game.Today I spent my last $20 on this game unless they make some changes...	
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I have to disagree about the costs to reroll slots being excessive, I REALLY do. I have about 850 omnibits for playing for around 2 months (without opening any of the daily logon omnibit bags) which is almost enough to buy 600 service tokens with. That is PLENTY for not spending a single real world dollar.
 
If you mix some service token rolls in with some ingame gold rerolls it's really not that bad. Spend some money on the game or don't but stop complaining about the cost of playing this game as it is COMPLETELY and GENEROUSLY free.
 
Feel free to complain about the inshop mounts not being account bound and being single use though! :)
			
				
	Edited December 2, 2015 by H3rboss	
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Why would anyone spend service tokens to reroll sockets on anything less than top tier gear?
Same goes for runes.
Don't place anything more than high quality runes in gear you are not going keep.
Expendable runes for expendable gear.
WS has one of the best and least restrictive F2P models,it's unfair to judje it because of going derp
with runes and rerolling slots.These are expensive.Use them wisely.
			
				
	Edited December 2, 2015 by Astranemos	
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Why would anyone spend service tokens to reroll sockets on anything less than top tier gear?
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Pretty much always going to re-roll slots on anything ilvl 96 or higher. Otherwise, you can't get sets.
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You can get at least one rune set in each gear piece without rerolling altough it definitely
won't be the optimal set up,but why bother if you are in the process of aquiring better gear?
Do the best with whatever slots you got,maybe use the gold reroll once for each slot you'd like
to change,in case you get lucky,and don't bother with spending service tokens for anything less
than bis gear.
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			To the OP - PLEASE PLEASE break up your posts with paragraphs. I get you are upset, but space out your thoughts a little bit so it's not a fustercluck of text.	
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Runes are hands down about to make me quit playing this game....
I  love this game. It is just fun to play. The combat , the sci fi , the humor. Everything is just fun. But I was one of the ones who quit a couple months after launch because of the business model was oppressive.It had a very mafia style feel to it, I came back with F2p to try it out again. And again the game is just fun......Then the runes....and there is the mafia again. Fxxx you  pay me..Fxxx you pay me..Fxxx you pay me...So far this month I have spent $40? on service tokens....As much as I like the game I just cannot justify that..The economy is just unrealistic. way to much money to reroll sockets...way to much money to salvage runes from gear. drop rates for fragments from salvaging gear is unrealistic.There is no way to buy rune fragments for glory.And on and on and on...Even the guys in my guild who are literally on 10 hours a day..and I am not kidding about that.Guys in my guild play like 10 hours a day.These guys are struggling to get their GA gear runed out with only suburbs.It has taken them about a month at probably 60 hours a week....I just don't think this game is for normal players...it seems to be geared towards and marketed to people who have trust funds and do not have to work and pay bills.It is fun ya....but to enjoy anything but leveling a character to 50 and doing any of the end game stuff you have to spend an unacceptable amount of real money and time. If runes and fragments were more accessible I could prolly enjoy the game but at end game it has become more of a chore than a pass time.I wish I could justify the money but that would be stupid to spend $40 a month on a Video game. I could spend more because I need to reroll sockets for new GA drops but when I looked at my bills and saw how much this was costing me I had to re examine what the hell I was doing.Maybe other people are rich but I am not. I cannot justify this .I am gonna stop raiding cause I cannot afford to raid. Lame.... 
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 WoW already did that and look where it ended up.
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Yeah I wonder where ^^. God forbid carbine will actually get money.
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Carbine would have the money if they didn't try to get all at once ..and just let the game be fun..
 
I say this though...after dealing with customer service...the bugs the broken systems and the community...I am out...I won't be the only one... and I wont be back..	
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Yeah I wonder where ^^. God forbid carbine will actually get money.
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Actually, there's an even bigger issue going on here I think.
 
Runes are not part of the lore, they're not part of the world at all. I haven't seen anything, anywhere, that describes their purpose or use in the world. Why are they in the Wildstar universe at all? What's their purpose? Maybe this is the biggest issue of all with the system....there's no reason for them being there other than "we want them to be, so here they are". Without them having a place, they're just a tacked on system and those tend to run wild and crazy a lot since they're not grounded.	
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Actually, there's an even bigger issue going on here I think.
 
Runes are not part of the lore, they're not part of the world at all. I haven't seen anything, anywhere, that describes their purpose or use in the world. Why are they in the Wildstar universe at all? What's their purpose? Maybe this is the biggest issue of all with the system....there's no reason for them being there other than "we want them to be, so here they are". Without them having a place, they're just a tacked on system and those tend to run wild and crazy a lot since they're not grounded.
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Is any gear part of the lore?
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For the most part, yes...or at least it's named to reflect it anyway. Even so I would just really consider runes and such to be the further understanding of Eldan tech and doing a fraction of augmentation they were capable of since all runes are comprised of some component of primal energy. That's just me though...
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Most people couldn't care less about the lore, or runes, or gear, or anything not being part of it.
 
The problem is the rune system is not straight forward at all. Carbine clearly didn't bring in anyone from the outside for testing the rune system to try and work it out.
 
Either that or it was one of those "guided testing" situations where the subject is basically told what to do anyway and is a complete waste of time.	
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That sounds like logic.
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Gear is repurposed Eldan and other tech that has been optimized for adventurers to survive on Nexus.  There is lore on it but you really have to dig around to find it (collect ALL the things & be a Scientist!).
Runes are also explained as rudimentary understanding of Eldan tech and reverse-engineered to be understood a tiny bit.  It is enough for us to 'craft' our own Runes though.  The RuneCrafting station is just a ProtoStar-approved way of doing so because money.	
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			The more I think about this I think the problem is the non-class sets.  If those weren't a thing then this respin would be a lot less complicated.  You'd still need to correct a few slots but perfection wouldn't be so urgent.	
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The more I think about this I think the problem is the non-class sets.  If those weren't a thing then this respin would be a lot less complicated.  You'd still need to correct a few slots but perfection wouldn't be so urgent.
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WoW is no longer reporting subscriber numbers because they embarass themselves in front of the shareholders whenever they do so (unless it is a post-expansion report).
They've already been superceded in subs by FFXIV (according to publisher statements and available public data).
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WoW is no longer reporting subscriber numbers because they embarass themselves in front of the shareholders whenever they do so (unless it is a post-expansion report).
They've already been superceded in subs by FFXIV (according to publisher statements and available public data).
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Do you have a link to this...very curious.
 
Information like this would actually be very important to stakeholders and since it's not provided, i find this untrue.
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No, this is not physically possible. FFXIV has maybe a million (though likely not that much) active subscribers. SE does not report active subs, only registered accounts, so do not go by that 4 million number they champion. If you total up the server populations based on lodestone data, it's more like 750k. Last I heard, WoW had 5 million.
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Also I don't get why you say it isn't 'physically possible' for FF14 to have 4+ million subscribers.  What do you mean by that?  We're talking about digital data.  Are you making a claim that Square-Enix doesn't have the hardware and networking infrastructure to support that many players DESPITE having another MMO running called Final Fantasy 11?  How are you able to say such a thing unless you have some data to back up that claim?
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Do I properly understand you to be arguing that runes would just be better if the only place you could obtain the materials for high-level runesets is in a raid instance?
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2 set runes is all about optimization and as mentioned it's not a huge upgrade.  Single sets work just fine.  On the runes dropping in raids only, well, considering the only place to get the gear that the runes go into are from raid, I don't see any reason why they should be elsewhere.  The fact you can obtain the runes in bags from glory which is just fine imo for those that want to put in runes to the iLvl 100 gear from contracts helps for the people doing contracts or purchasing boe (if purchasing boe, purchasing the minors on cx is just fine).  Also, you can purchase the actual runes from the ah and some still have the single rune tokens, alot actually.  
 
The regular runes are cheap.  Think pure rune fragments are going for just over 1g, and divine for 80s.  Need 10 pure or 12 divine and some signs and can get the stats, just no set bonuses.  So for 15g, can get a rune.  Think superb rune fragments are about hte same for pure.  A 10-15 minute expedition nets 40g at least.  A dungeon run more.  So gearing up and runing is not hard.  And using just regular runes will get your 2 big "main" stats capped easily.  
 
Fyi, if your running dungeons or GA, you don't need 17% strikethrough, so get 9% for GA (i believe, or it's 12).  Than go for your main stat and 2nd main stat.  Warriors are crit/crit sev, cant recall other classes.	
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No, I'm saying that SE reports registered accounts, not active subs. I can guarantee you that a good chunk of those "registered accounts" are not active subs (myself being one of them). And the raw data taken from server analysis and lodestone surveys suggests somewhere between 750k and 1 million. I highly doubt WoW is below 1 million.
 
Also, regarding WoW's subs.
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considering the only place to get the gear that the runes go into are from raid
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This is not true, FWIW. You could make the argument that BoEs come from raids, but world boss gear and some contract gear can both take pure runes.
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Why I mentioned the contracts in the next sentence.  And why you can get the minor/major from glory bags (from dungeons/raids).
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Though I never understood the reason they did not put any minor/major "pure" rune in the contract final rewards and included superb instead yet they put iLvl 100 gear in the contract board.
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