109879-this-game-could-truly-be-the-next-best-thing-but

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So here we are some months after the launch the first justified qq's are here... "Please carbine do something for the empty servers", " please carbine, add free transfers so we can go all to hazak" and so on...
 
How this game ever managed to have empty servers, we should have queues even 3 months after the launch, this game should have been the best out there, and honestly for really long time I believe it would be. Sadly I was wrong, this game seem to be average and has no differences from other mediocre games... In fact this whole situation reminds me swtor... Anyway, let's see what went wrong and this game did not manage to maintain and even evolve the it's player base from launch till now... 
 
Needless to say that everything bellow it is my personal opinion and only that...
 
1. Leveling process 
 
I had no expectations that leveling would be something really innovative, but I expected not to be THIS... It feels so *cupcake* Grindy, there are some quests that in order to complete them you need to kill tones of mobs, from killing 10 mobs, we went to reach 100% into progress bar... And in order to reach this you had to kill much more than 20 mobs, why couldn't you keep that simple carbine? 
 
Another thing on leveling process is the challenges, a feature that I personally love, but sorry to say they don't feel rewarding whatsoever, challenges while leveling should reward experience upon completion, if I bother to make a challenge I want to worth it, and an item (with no 100% chance to take it even) won't do the job. This is a great feature as I said, that could make the leveling process really fun, as long as people bothered to do them, but many didn't simply because they felt that it was a waste of time. Gaining a good amount of experience upon completion and some reputation, would definitely make the leveling process more engaging.
 
No instance quests? Really, it always feels good when you complete a hard instanced quest, why did you guys decide to take this away? Why to differentiate from other games to that? I remember myself in other games waiting to reach the level so to be able to pick the quests for the xxxxxx instance, felt really rewarding and had extra incentive to complete the instance. In wildstar, I know several people that never tried the normal instances, and those people are many.
 
In every other game I played I felt like playing almost every class, in wildstar I can't be arsed to level up even 1 alt.
 
2. Six classes ONLY...
 
Wildstar at the moment has 6 playable classes, why not more, I don't get it, competition has so much more to offer, yes wildstar is a new game, I do not expect 15 classes I do expect though at launch to cover every play style out there... For example I would love to see a ranger like class, I love playing such classes and I know other people do aswell, a class with instant abilities, yielding a magical bow maybe or whatever... A Druid like class.... Or... I can go on with more examples, but would be pointless since my point is made, and I bet each one of the players might have its personal preferences to that... Fact is though that game lack some more classes.
 
 
3. LAS system was implemented poorly, wasn't it?
 
I remember back in the days when several of us complained about the las and that abilities are not enough and would make our game repetitive, we were told to wait, since we would be constantly change our LAS, based on each fight and so on... Well sorry to say, but this was a huge lie... We basically run the same LAS with really minor changes every time, it feels soooooo repetitive like there is no tomorrow... And sadly that's not only for my class (engineer) it's the same for the rest of the classes as well based on what I ve been told, since I don't have experience from every class....
It's not fun to spam 2 buttons, it's not fun to basically use the same abilities over and over again... Now some will say isn't that happening to almost every other game? Yes... But you have much more abilities to compensate that in a way, you have much more situational ones for example, you can respecc and actually use totally different ones... This game should have had more usable abilities in a single LAS (15?) that would allow for much more customization and would satisfy several different play styles... Only then the decision making process would be more strategic with some depth, cause sorry to say, at the moment feels really shallow...
 
Additionally to the above, I would like to mention that abilities synergy is very poorly implemented, sure there is some, but since the set is really limited, I expected much more... You should really take a look into that and make abilities to interact much more with each other, and maybe one ability should be able to interact with more than one or two... That's as a side note.
 
4. Free form targeting and telegraphs 
 
I was really worried when I heard that wildstar will be free form targeting, playing Tera in the past, revealed to me several weaknesses this system brings, although I must admit that several of those weaknesses were addressed with the telegraphs. Sadly the final outcome it is not positive in my eyes. Again it is limiting the possibilities this game had/has... I miss a lot single target abilities, I hate that endless spam that we don't care what we hit, I hate that rotations are almost the same with the exception of maybe one ability, I hate it that we can not properly cc something and instead we just bring everything into the huge telegraphs area and we dps them down. It's not fun... It doesn't even feel right...sorry but I do love the fact that single target abilities hit for more whereas aoe ones for less... It's a basic principle and I miss it in wildstar (more on that later)... 
 
Having a mixed system would really solve several problems, having single target abilities with the basic tab targeting and aoe ones that would be free form, would allow for so much differentiation that would make the fights even better... Designing an encounter fight would allow for more options, the choice for the las system would be even more strategic, synergy in the party raid would become even more important (who would take what abilities, who would go aoe who doesn't and blah blah blah)... 
 
5. Hit feeling 
 
This one is related to the above, but in thought it deserved special attention thus I gate it a number... When I fit something in this game I don't actually feel it... Another bad thing that free form targeting is doing is that abilities that heal or deal damage don't feel as strong as we though it would be, and this is not cause of the numbers, it's because we don't feel it in our bones that we hit something and that something felt it as much as we expected or wanted... Sorry for not being able to properly explain what I mean... I will try to provide an example...
 
In wow the 2 classes I played the most was mage and Druid... I remember when I was hitting something with let's say fireball I was feeling good... When though I was hitting something with my pyroblast was feeling *cupcake*ing great, was feeling that I did something serious to my enemy, loving it... Same with my boo kin, my wrath was feeling kinda weak, whereas starfire felt like I was breaking target's head...
 
Or In Swtor my gunslinger, using aimed shot was feeling so good... Regardless of course the numbers... 
 
Another example is the rogue in wow, where when a rogue was opening me with his ambush or w/e was called, I was feeling that he broke spine in real life...
 
In wildstar sadly I can't bring such examples. I do t have this feeling, and I think a reason for that is the free form targeting... 
 
6. Twenty men raids... When the second raiding tier is 40...
 
I don't know who was the genius thought of that, but was a really bad decision, you screwed up so many guilds out there... How my guild is supposed to have 40 men ready for next tier? Am I supposed to run 2 twenty man raids? Is that easy to happen? Ofc it is not... Creates huge issues within the guild, it's hard enough to run one group, running a second one it's simply pain in the ass.... Why wouldn't you make both tiers same size... What was the purpose behind the GA being 20 men and DS 40...? The logistics issues created in several guilds are insane... 
 
 
7. GA Attunement process...
 
Honestly now, how fun it is for someone to come back from work login into the game and wait for the world bosses to spawn all around the world to kill them... Spending hours to camp spots or trying to find people to help him... 
 
Honestly the best thing this game has to offer is the raiding, anyone that didn't try raiding in this game really lost, personally I *cupcake*ing love it... But why in the world wouldn't you want people to try your raids... Why do you put them stupid obstacles... Of course I am all in for Attunement to exist, but for the love of god, wouldn't be enough to just compete the dungeons? Why the silver requirement? Competing something should be enough to advance you, make it harder to kill, yes... But don't put the retarded time restriction... 
 
Gaining rep with the dominion... Hello? More grinding? No thanks.
 
Leg people see your raids, it's the best thing you guys offer at the moment, hive them a reason to continue play the game... 
 
8. Gems and gear power
 
Issues have been addressed so nothing to say here....
 
9. PvP 
 
With re form targeting feels like a huge Zerg fest, no matter how hard I tried to like it, I hated it all times, everyone hitting everything how fun... I missed to call out targets so much... OMG with this Zerg.
 
So what so I propose? 
 
Hate me as much as you want... But...
 
Bring the game for 6 months or one year, make the necessary changes and bring it up again... Something like a final fantasy did with realm reborn... I have no doubts that then, wildstar will become the best mmo game out there...
 
And regarding those people that will not tell me that game it's fine, quit etc... Sorry bug they are wrong... Numbers say so...	
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			Sorry to say friend, but it sounds to me that... you just described WoW almost in its entirety. That game is still going, you know.	
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			yeh honestly stop plagueing the forums with these high and mighty "I am quitting because of these reasons" posts. Carbine is doing everything in their power to provide an AWESOME MMO for the community. Go back to WOW and kill Garrosh 100 more times more times before new content gets released	
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Bring the game for 6 months or one year, make the necessary changes and bring it up again... Something like a final fantasy did with realm reborn... I have no doubts that then, wildstar will become the best mmo game out there...
 
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A lot of what the OP brings up is simply opinion.
 
There is nothing wrong with having a opinion, but suggesting taking the game offline is ludicrous. The game is nowhere near the level of terrible that FFXVI ver. 1.0 was.
 
If someone feels the game needs another 6 months of work, simply cancel the sub for 6 months then see how things have changed.	
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Needless to say that everything bellow it is my personal opinion and only that...
 
1. Leveling process
 
I had no expectations that leveling would be something really innovative, but I expected not to be THIS... It feels so *cupcake* Grindy, there are some quests that in order to complete them you need to kill tones of mobs, from killing 10 mobs, we went to reach 100% into progress bar... And in order to reach this you had to kill much more than 20 mobs, why couldn't you keep that simple carbine?
 
Most quests are perfectly fine. There are a lot though that the % per mob of varying levels/types are waaaaay off. I just stop doing those quests and move on. It's not game breaking by any means.
 
Another thing on leveling process is the challenges, a feature that I personally love, but sorry to say they don't feel rewarding whatsoever, challenges while leveling should reward experience upon completion, if I bother to make a challenge I want to worth it, and an item (with no 100% chance to take it even) won't do the job. This is a great feature as I said, that could make the leveling process really fun, as long as people bothered to do them, but many didn't simply because they felt that it was a waste of time. Gaining a good amount of experience upon completion and some reputation, would definitely make the leveling process more engaging.
 
Challenges I only do if they're super easy because of this very reason. No experience = why bother doing them? The rewards certainly aren't worth the investment, cosmetic fluff stuff or a piece of gear that will last me half a level for wasting my time being unproductive while leveling.
 
No instance quests? Really, it always feels good when you complete a hard instanced quest, why did you guys decide to take this away? Why to differentiate from other games to that? I remember myself in other games waiting to reach the level so to be able to pick the quests for the xxxxxx instance, felt really rewarding and had extra incentive to complete the instance. In wildstar, I know several people that never tried the normal instances, and those people are many.
 
Meh. Not an issue. If they did provide instance quests right now they wouldn't be completed anyways because they're not scaled or balanced well for leveling and learning players. Similar to adventures the investment versus reward for leveling instances is just nowhere near what it needs to be for a lot of different reasons. They're designed to be hardcore attunement cockblocks for level 50's. 
 
In every other game I played I felt like playing almost every class, in wildstar I can't be arsed to level up even 1 alt.
 
k? Leveling alts is always boring. Doesn't matter if it's WoW or Wildstar.
 
2. Six classes ONLY...
 
Wildstar at the moment has 6 playable classes, why not more, I don't get it, competition has so much more to offer, yes wildstar is a new game, I do not expect 15 classes I do expect though at launch to cover every play style out there... For example I would love to see a ranger like class, I love playing such classes and I know other people do aswell, a class with instant abilities, yielding a magical bow maybe or whatever... A Druid like class.... Or... I can go on with more examples, but would be pointless since my point is made, and I bet each one of the players might have its personal preferences to that... Fact is though that game lack some more classes.
 
They have a hard enough time balancing 6 classes and making them play differently. Welcome to a steampunk style sci-fi setting, there are plenty of high fantasy settings for you to choose from among the MMO's if that's what you want which is what druid and ranger classes are designed for. Could they bastardize the concepts to introduce another version of spellslinger that instead of having 2 pistols uses a bow so you feel good about the fluff, sure. Will they? No.
 
3. LAS system was implemented poorly, wasn't it?
 
I remember back in the days when several of us complained about the las and that abilities are not enough and would make our game repetitive, we were told to wait, since we would be constantly change our LAS, based on each fight and so on... Well sorry to say, but this was a huge lie... We basically run the same LAS with really minor changes every time, it feels soooooo repetitive like there is no tomorrow... And sadly that's not only for my class (engineer) it's the same for the rest of the classes as well based on what I ve been told, since I don't have experience from every class....
It's not fun to spam 2 buttons, it's not fun to basically use the same abilities over and over again... Now some will say isn't that happening to almost every other game? Yes... But you have much more abilities to compensate that in a way, you have much more situational ones for example, you can respecc and actually use totally different ones... This game should have had more usable abilities in a single LAS (15?) that would allow for much more customization and would satisfy several different play styles... Only then the decision making process would be more strategic with some depth, cause sorry to say, at the moment feels really shallow...
 
Additionally to the above, I would like to mention that abilities synergy is very poorly implemented, sure there is some, but since the set is really limited, I expected much more... You should really take a look into that and make abilities to interact much more with each other, and maybe one ability should be able to interact with more than one or two... That's as a side note.
 
It wasn't implemented poorly. The abilities themselves were designed simplistically. The resource systems were designed simplistically. Very little synergy. Very little variation. Spam builder, spam spender. Use cooldown abilities that are worth it on cooldown. A lot of value was thrown out when they introduced cooldowns as ways to keep abilities in check which killed potential build diversity. But that had to have been intentional. Stacking different stats doesn't change rotations or promote certain builds over others. It's just use the best set. My hope is that once they balance everything out we'll start seeing them get innovative but right now LAS doesn't mean anything because we have no reason to use abilities other than the ones we're using. If that changes you'll see LAS be more important.
 
4. Free form targeting and telegraphs
 
I was really worried when I heard that wildstar will be free form targeting, playing Tera in the past, revealed to me several weaknesses this system brings, although I must admit that several of those weaknesses were addressed with the telegraphs. Sadly the final outcome it is not positive in my eyes. Again it is limiting the possibilities this game had/has... I miss a lot single target abilities, I hate that endless spam that we don't care what we hit, I hate that rotations are almost the same with the exception of maybe one ability, I hate it that we can not properly cc something and instead we just bring everything into the huge telegraphs area and we dps them down. It's not fun... It doesn't even feel right...sorry but I do love the fact that single target abilities hit for more whereas aoe ones for less... It's a basic principle and I miss it in wildstar (more on that later)...
 
Having a mixed system would really solve several problems, having single target abilities with the basic tab targeting and aoe ones that would be free form, would allow for so much differentiation that would make the fights even better... Designing an encounter fight would allow for more options, the choice for the las system would be even more strategic, synergy in the party raid would become even more important (who would take what abilities, who would go aoe who doesn't and blah blah blah)...
 
No significant long term (in comparison to stuns, knockdowns, etc) crowd control certainly limits variation in combat. Ability ranking makes it so we can't realistically build an AoE skill in a LAS with a single target skill, though that's mostly due to Ability Ranks being required for primary builders/spenders skills and not enough of them to go around. Having targets or not having targets doesn't change that. 
 
5. Hit feeling
 
...
In wildstar sadly I can't bring such examples. I do t have this feeling, and I think a reason for that is the free form targeting...
 
Play a spellslinger. They do big single hits that you can see the impact of which is beyond ridiculous in pvp atm.
 
6. Twenty men raids... When the second raiding tier is 40...
 
I don't know who was the genius thought of that, but was a really bad decision, you screwed up so many guilds out there... How my guild is supposed to have 40 men ready for next tier? Am I supposed to run 2 twenty man raids? Is that easy to happen? Ofc it is not... Creates huge issues within the guild, it's hard enough to run one group, running a second one it's simply pain in the ass.... Why wouldn't you make both tiers same size... What was the purpose behind the GA being 20 men and DS 40...? The logistics issues created in several guilds are insane...
 
No comment. I don't know what they were thinking aside from the nostalgia of older games where raids were 40+ man.
 
7. GA Attunement process...
 
Honestly now, how fun it is for someone to come back from work login into the game and wait for the world bosses to spawn all around the world to kill them... Spending hours to camp spots or trying to find people to help him...
 
The attunement process is silly, not because of the difficulty but because of the grind.
 
8. Gems and gear power
 
Issues have been addressed so nothing to say here....
 
9. PvP
 
With re form targeting feels like a huge Zerg fest, no matter how hard I tried to like it, I hated it all times, everyone hitting everything how fun... I missed to call out targets so much... OMG with this Zerg.
 
So what so I propose?
 
Hate me as much as you want... But...
 
Bring the game for 6 months or one year, make the necessary changes and bring it up again... Something like a final fantasy did with realm reborn... I have no doubts that then, wildstar will become the best mmo game out there...
 
And regarding those people that will not tell me that game it's fine, quit etc... Sorry bug they are wrong... Numbers say so...
 
You have no more numbers than the rest of us do, that is to say we're all speculating. The game is not going to come down for 6 months and be updated. Any changes are going to happen while the game is live. Expecting any different is just not having a grasp on reality.
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Sorry to say friend, but it sounds to me that... you just described WoW almost in its entirety. That game is still going, you know.
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			Please, dear God, don't take the game offline.  I know some people have problems, but I really love this game even as it is.  I think it's still the best MMORPG out there.  I'd love it to be improved, even for other people for issues that don't affect me, but I'm not having problems.  They can fix the game while it's online.	
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Oh yes, pull the plug now.
 
That's the greatest solution ever offered in the history of offering solution. A few things are borked, people are leaving, may as well shutter the whole thing after three month. Nice try, Carbine but GG.
 
*epic eyeroll*	
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My little heart can't take a 3rd shut down of a game i love...
 
First CoH, then Warhammer, I'd cry if Wildstar shut down...	
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My little heart can't take a 3rd shut down of a game i love...
 
First CoH, then Warhammer, I'd cry if Wildstar shut down...
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I guess it's just me that started playing this game with around 12 friends (creating a guild etc) and now only 2 left...
 
Apparently the empty servers are carbines fault because they opened too many
 
Certainly the game it's fine as it is...
 
Reason I proposed to bring the game down is because I believe would do the following 
 
1. Would create huge interest to the community to sub back to at least check the changes 
2. Would give enough time to carbine to make the necessary changes and deliver a polished game
3. Changes needed in my opinion affect the core game and can't be done with the game running
4. Keeping the game running like this, I think will result to more unsubs
 
Certainly I do not expect everyone to agree with me on every each point I made, but you guys should admit that for some reason, might none of those that I mentioned game is losing subs, much more than intended... And regarding the numbers... You don't need to be a genius to figure that a server that was once full of ppl is now empty... That's a clear reduction to numbers	
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Simple as this friend. The game isn't perfect, hell, not even near finished, but apparently you forgot to take into account all those people whose livelihood depend on the game being live and functioning. I guess you'll be in charge of providing them with the job stability they clearly will need once the game goes dark, albeit temporarily?
 
What sounds more doable to you, them shutting the game down, or you stepping aside for 6 months? Either way, you get to see a "new game" 6 months down the road, and while I don't see eye to eye with Carbine frequently, I am not ludicrous enough to expect them to put their jobs on hold to satisfy my demands.
 
Have a good day.	
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Wildstar's combat has completely spoiled every other MMORPG.
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1. leveling in every mmo has been tedious, but  fi you see the post in the forums most people said that the fun stopped at level 50, so they enjoyed a lot the leveling
2. the classes fill the spots in playgame, near tank mid tank long range tank, mid range healer, long range healer, shield healer, melee dps, mid range dps and long range dps.
 
we ned to fill some spots in playgame, well yes, but almost every spot is filled in some kind of way
 
3. you must  be doing something wrong, because with my healer int he dungeons every boss has his set of abalities, with 3 or 4 core abilities and the rest are situational, like calm at the 1 of STL or urgency at 2 boss
 
4.i dont see any ability that says its a single target, almost all are skillshots multitarget
 
5. strange but 5 gamma rays to the face or a rampage in the middle of a group for me gets the feeling
 
6. you will get another 20 man raid to do, when you finish those 2 just merge with other group or do a coop with another guild, we did that at Lich with my 10 man guild for the 25 man run
 
7. a real raider can get the attunement in 24 hours if he start  it the monday so its not a problem, the rest of us well we take it easy, even if you pvped all the way to 50 like me you can get almost 6k rep with all the dailies and containment r-12. not counting going back to the areas you never visited.
 
cause the game its hell on earth for the min/maxers  with the rng but its really fun when you decide to take your time. and well based on the fact taht you can down several bosses in GA with just blues, know mechanics and skill avoiding telegraphs its not for that.
 
8. gear runes are being fixed with less rngness ( that was a real complain)
 
9. a little balance to the damage spikes and a little love to the healers and we will its fine, you can see a zerg but a coordinated group can beat that easily with less man meanwhile the others capture objetives	
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People keep saying this about Tera and WildStar. I dunno if they are mostly DPSers. As a healer I'm kinda torn. Defensively it's better in WildStar but Offensively. I still think that if I could be anything IRL I'd chose my Druid or Warden over the Medic. Free targeting healing lacks a certain oomph. It's fun because of the dodging but the skill you output have meh effects. It all happens too fast. I'd like to see the healers in this game get some badass Channeling skills or something.
 
On topic. I kinda agree with his single target point. "Every focus on the square!" and having those targets that you simply aren't suppose to attack so you fear or polymorph them feels somewhat more strategic. There is still some coordination that goes on in Wildstar though.
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No, my wife plays a healer, and she despises WoW now.   :lol:
 
Considering how hard WoW pushes numbers (because, in all honesty, there just isn't much stress to do anything besides keep your numbers high).  I think what I like most about Wildstar's combat, oddly, is that I'm almost unconcerned with the little slivers of damage.  Having played WoW for about a decade, I don't miss the numbers game.  It's not like it's bad, I did like it better than everything else in the market at the time.  But Wildstar, more than WoW, forces you to function as a group.  Healers can't heal DPS who aren't trying to get healed.  Tanks need DPS to be standing and functional to handle mechanics that absolutely require them to survive more than know where to pick up in their rotation after they run to a safe area.  And, of course, the healer and tank need to be on the same page to make the group function.
 
I've told the story a few times about how my last SOO heroic run we pugged in a bunch of people and still beat Garrosh even though like 75% of the interrupts were done by me on a warrior and my brother on a main tank.  That shouldn't be possible, but it happens.  Group coordination is less important than group numbers.  And there's something to be said for that; obviously WoW comes from an RTS and it's more clinical.  But that doesn't speak to me at all anymore.  Now that I've played Wildstar, I've had a game built on difficult group coordination and mechanics that is actually fundamentally hard.
 
I'll say this, though, if healers and tanks might waver on it, I love being DPS and having to be part of the group rather than a damage-outputting lemming that needs to be kept alive.  I might have to start a tank or healer hardcore in this game so that I can fill gaps in the queue system, but I love running premades as DPS in this game.  There is nothing even close to how combat works in this game anywhere else.
 
If they can fix some ancillary bits, I'll cease seeing why anything can be called "competition".  For now, it's mostly RNG issues and some of the social tools, maybe content?  I tried playing WoW after beta ended.  I just feel so bored, and I play melee and tanks, primarily, which compared to locks and mages is hyperactive.
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So No and maybe? hehe. I'll agree that numbers rule WoW a bit(Although I did spend most of WoW and Rift with a 1 next to my name ;) so I didn't mind it ). My point still stands about "oomph!". Tranq trashes every Big Healer CD in this game. I understand why but I miss being able to watch as I turn a wipe into a win XD.
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I never changed my class, so I went from 1 to 5 and back a few times.  And there are DEFINITELY times when the healer has turned a wipe into survival in this game.  The thing is, you have to be GOD at healing to drag a group though an instance by the pubes in this game.  We had a medic in my second STL, I wish I remembered his name (it was a PUG).  It was my second dungeon and I wasn't doing that great on my warrior.  This guy was absolutely, positively phenomenal!  On the one hand, he was giving me tips to get into the healing telegraphs and where I wanted to stand from trash to trash and boss to boss.  But a medic who spent more time trying to counsel the spellslinger, who was running around at the farthest range possible, nowhere near the tank, healer, or tele.  And we didn't even suffer a death.
 
Watching him when I had a spare moment was insane.  He crossed the boss to throw a heal, jumped back, healed us, and essentially kept the run alive on the strength of his movement skills alone.
 
I try my best not to make any healer do that.  But man, while we have fewer healers and tanks because of the difficulty curve, the best healers in this game are the best healers anywhere.
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			What about if u go to back to wow and come back to wildstar, lets say after 1-2years? hmm, mayby they added druid+hunter class by then.	
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I absolutely love being able to Teleport and Abusing Calm(there's actually one thing I feel this shouldn't work for but it does and I'm glad it does lol). They have good defensive Cds for sure. Honestly it's just the speed taking away from the impact of your offense but the speed is necessary. I'm not saying you can't here but when your Toon is standing there with his arm raised for 10 seconds and your screen is filled with big healing number text and your Raid Frames starts to get back colors it's magnificent!!
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What about if u go to back to wow and come back to wildstar, lets say after 1-2years? hmm, mayby they added druid+hunter class by then.
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