Report 1864

Report #1864
Skillset: Geomancy Skill: Fleshstone
 Org: Magnagora Status: Finalised
Problem: Fleshstone is a 8p ability that is currently restricted to the melding
Geomancer, this is an issue mostly in keeping other Geomancers from making use
of their own skills for defensive purposes and strategic planning. The ability
itself can either be used to keep the Geomancer from being harmed for 20s(If
they're the melder) or essentially keeping out a stronger target from play to
focus on other targets(If they're the melder).
[A: 1 R: 6] Solution #1: Allow for Fleshstone to be usable in melded terrain,
 regardless of who is holding the meld.
[A: 1 R: 6] Solution #2: Allow for Fleshstone to be usable in melded terrain
 and tainted ground.
Player Comments:
---[Avurekhos on 3/6 @ 12:48 sets as pending]
---[Moi on 3/8 @ 02:05 writes]:
Why is solution 2 not just "Allow Fleshstone on any tainted ground"?
---[Danquik on 3/8 @ 14:36 writes]:
Either solution looks fine to me. Melders generally lack ability to aid much
beyond waiting for the primary melder to die so they can have a chance to die
too... I mean shine as well.
---[Minkahmet on 3/8 @ 15:37 writes]:
I'm actually inclined to both solutions thematically. To which, I can agree with
Danquik's thought about melders in general, with how they work in aiding.
---[Maligorn on 3/10 @ 11:33 writes]:
I'm a little skeptical of allowing every Geomancer to use Fleshstone in melded
terrain, as you could remove key players in any engagement with no other setup
than the melded terrain. This would make breaking into a Geomancer meld even
more difficult than usual. Can I get some more solid numbers on the amount of
time a person is removed from play if Fleshstone is cast on them by someone
else? I'll have more thoughts pending that answer.
---[Crek on 3/11 @ 02:53 writes]:
Going to have to agree with Maligorn. Would need duration of fleshstone on enemy
targets. Would be slightly less hesitant if fleshstone had a buildup before it
went through when not self-cast.
---[Danquik on 3/11 @ 15:50 writes]:
Glmanours bards have been doing this forever, with no meld restriction or
terrain restriction. Arguably their maze can be critiqued, but that is rarely
done, as spending 10p to remove a skill that will fade soon enough is rarely the
best course of action. I will say a 10p counter, maybe a syntax added to
Crashing in Environment could be added so if allies want to expend that power to
rescue someone, they can.
---[Maligorn on 3/12 @ 01:00 writes]:
No. A counterskill is not the answer here. Furthermore, Glamourists must strip
sixthsense before they can Maze a person - this usually takes the using of Flare
(2p) which makes Maze (10p) a midfight option, not an opener - assuming the
target has sixthsense up (which they absolutely should).
---[Crek on 3/12 @ 01:02 writes]:
Glamours maze requires the target be not-blind. So not only can maze be
critiqued by an ally but a combat deffed enemy will have to have sixthsense
stripped. The proposed changes would allow fleshstone to be cast on demand by
any Geomancer (or censer holder) who has happened to taint the location.
---[Crek on 3/12 @ 01:02 writes]:
Aaaand Maligorn beat me to the punch. What he said!
---[Danquik on 3/12 @ 01:53 writes]:
Glamour bards not only do not need to use Flare, they can use Fascinate, but
tend to find their opponents un-blind already. I have mazed a number of people,
'top-tier' by walking in and hitting Maze. I don't know if you just have little
experience with how easy maze really is, or not, but you are mistaken on the
difficulty of it. Also, again, Glamour bards can maze anywhere anytime.
Fleshstone would be terrain restricted.
---[Yarith on 3/12 @ 04:48 writes]:
Yeah, I think this is honestly fine. I'm also of the mind to bring
bubble/liquidform in line with whatever changes are made on this report. I also
hold the opinion that a counterskill is not the way to go.
---[Yarith on 3/12 @ 04:48 writes]:
Yeah, I think this is honestly fine. I'm also of the mind to bring
bubble/liquidform in line with whatever changes are made on this report. I also
hold the opinion that a counterskill is not the way to go.
---[Yarith on 3/12 @ 04:49 writes]:
Sorry, I fat-thumbed my comment and it went through twice. Unintended.
---[Maligorn on 3/12 @ 21:40 writes]:
I will say that, especially when keeping balance in mind, one should expect that
combatants do something as basic as upkeep sixthsense. As for the rest, though -
my fault. I figured Fascinate's balance was too slow (or Sixthsense was quick
enough) that you couldn't one-two punch into Maze. Thanks for informing me!
---[Tarken on 3/14 @ 14:50 writes]:
I do share Maligorn's concern that we don't need more stackable banish-type
skills - I think the only reason maze isn't a problem is because of what a
suboptimal choice glamours is, particularly in the post wonderbrazier world.
That said, I'm going to buck the trend here and say I think if there was a
counter skill this might be ok: counterplay is important. One thing I wouldn't
mind seeing as a possible alternative would be if a meld could only support one
fleshstone, but the fleshstone could be cast by any geomancer. So your guy
holding the meld could save power for unleash etc while the additional geomancer
got to still use power for something.
---[Crek on 3/15 @ 01:08 writes]:
As said in report 1865, I am hesitant to see this report go through in
conjunction with the chasm report. This would make fleshstone an instant kill OR
a banish. Seems like too much for one ability.
---[Auriella on 3/18 @ 23:34 writes]:
I share concerns along with the others. As this is kind of a mix skill between
Bubble and Liquidform, which are also restricted to the melding mage and would
be unbalanced should they be allowed outside of a meld for obvious reasons.
---[Avurekhos on 3/19 @ 14:50 writes]:
Having thought on Tarken's idea, I think it would be a fair and balanced change
to address the concerns being voiced in this report but I see no harm in
allowing it to extend to Geomancer's self-casting on themselves given that the
ability is being used for means of costly survival and not picking out an entire
cadre of fighters in a best case scenario for active Geomancers. Mind I'll leave
that up to the Furies if they'd like to sol.3(4) this, since it finalised before
a change was able to be made on my part.
---[Maligorn on 3/20 @ 01:21 writes]:
While I'm voting rejection on both of the offered solutions, and though I am
loathe to support a solution made in the comments (down with Solution 4s), I
agree that it'd be appropriate if any Geomancer could self-cast Fleshstone in
any tainted room.
---[Deichtine on 3/21 @ 14:34 writes]:
I currently think Fleshstone and bubble are a bit too strong what with having no
counter. I'd be rejecting this report until such time as there is a counter to
bubble/fleshstone in the same way that there is a counter to maze. Would 100%
support a counter ability+this report going in as a sol 4.
---[Ejderha on 3/21 @ 19:21 writes]:
I think allowing the self-cast of Fleshstone in melded/tainted ground seems fine
to me. Support for the in-comments Sol 3, but it feels like we need more
conversation about banish-type skills before we do something as strong as Sol 1
or 2.