126076-wildstar-is-going-to-a-hybrid-free-to-play-model-in-august-what-are-your-thoughts-page-7

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This is why.
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This is why.
 
I think they're fine as prizes/rewards, but enticing people to pay for a slim random chance at winning something special does more harm than good in an MMO, IMHO.
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The question becomes "Do we trust carbine and NCSoft to implement drop boxes that are worth the value of unlocking?"
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My 17 Flasks of Lesser Renown do not trust boomboxes.  :lol:
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I have considered your recommendation carefully and at length, and respectfully decline.
 
This thread is neither pitiful nor is it embarrassing the community at large.There are several different reasons why people think a business model change is unavoidable at this point, and the response of every media outlet to the possibility of Wildstar going F2P has universally been that it's long overdue.
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I recommend, we leave this thread, and leave something like this to people that know what they are doing. The marketing experts. At the end of the day, this thread is going around in circles, and someone has got to stop this pitiful thread that embarrasses the entire Wildstar community.
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This thread is neither pitiful nor is it embarrassing the community at large.There are several different reasons why people think a business model change is unavoidable at this point, and the response of every media outlet to the possibility of Wildstar going F2P has universally been that it's long overdue.
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Nothing like a crash at a race track or a hockey fight to bring viewers. Those media outlets need clicks.
 
The fact remains, as Aralon indicated, there are no facts to go off of right now. We should just let it be until there are.
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Some people don't mind gambling on an item choice of the reward in return is at least difinitively valuable in some way.
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Nothing like a crash at a race track or a hockey fight to bring viewers. Those media outlets need clicks.
 
The fact remains, as Aralon indicated, there are no facts to go off of right now. We should just let it be until there are.
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the steamdb entry is the same as TERA, can't we assume that's some form of data to consider a fact?
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So, now we HAVE gone full circle.
 
Fifteen times.
 
At least.
 
Yeah, I'm starting to agree with the others that this has gone on as far as it's going to go without more official information.
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If every reward in return is approximately equally valuable, then it's no longer gambling.
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iam fine with this.
 
its not gonna affect my personal gameplay. i welcome it actually, itll build a bigger playerbase.
 
and for those thatll say oh itll bring bad players ingame,. we already have a toxic player base ingame.
 
this is actually the way togo.	
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So, now we HAVE gone full circle.
 
Fifteen times.
 
At least.
 
Yeah, I'm starting to agree with the others that this has gone on as far as it's going to go without more official information.	
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Free cookies at 16!
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That's not the suggestion, the suggestion is that at least something with a reasonable use valuable should come out of it, be it something like a runic flux, or 3 eldan signs, or a costume, or even a mount.
 
The point being made is don't put garbage in the dropbox's loot table, put things of resonable value to make them at least a little bit worth playing dice for.
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RNG boxes are frankly the most disgusting tactic F2P games can possibly implement. They're predatory and very quickly infest everything in the game.
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I'd have to say I disagree and go with Pay to Win itemization and Percentage Chance protection upgrading items.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIrLUxfuWbE
Such as this crap in Flyff.
 
2~3$ worth of items, PER ATTEMPT, and the system does 10 attempts per round.
 
This is probably the most disgusting tactic in F2P P2W games.
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"this shit smells worse than this other shit"
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well well well...
"rumors" of a f2p hybrid.
 
as this is exactly what i expected i am neither surprised or angry. the game needs it.
now, what i am "slightly" more worried about:
will wildstar be READY for its F2P conversion. Here is what I think it needs for a truly successful re-launch as F2P:
 
-adjust/scale world events and world bosses so they are fun and rewarding at all levels (perfect content for casual social farmers). they could be instanced or maybe high level players should be slightly downscaled in power when visiting previous zones.
-raid gear is just too op. it breaks the content and make it no fun. even in lvl 50 zone like star comm you basically 2 shot the mobs. the gameplay becomes boring (i tried removing some gear pieces and then fight the mobs and it is so much fun when not as OP) i think the game needs a bit of player scaling.
-tweak pvp balance. but honestly it is getting there... it will probably be decently balanced for the next drop and i think it will be enjoyable. another priority: make BLUE and RED team more noticeable (i want to know right away which team i am in).
-make sure optimization is as good as it can be so that people can play wildstar on toasters (we all know there are a lot of toaster owners that plays mmo)
-with the recent additions, the "endgame" attunement process it more streamlined, but lets make sure it is so that bad players don't hit brick walls too much before raids at least.
-bring the option to multi queue.
-make the game a bit more alt friendly (account bound stuff i suppose, or merged banks)
-squash the bugs. the raid frame bugged since drop 5? a *cupcake* add-on dev can have a hot fix for it but not Carbine ? this is NOT good.
 
anyway, if all the above points are corrected this game will be awesome. according to me.
 
​(group housing plot en sus)	
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"this shit smells worse than this other shit"
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More like "It could be worse."
 
So no one likes the lockbox idea, Alright that's fine.
Scratch that off the list.
 
What else could be considered?
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what i wish the mmo community, in general, would consider is a subscription mmo that is failing to produce the quality they want not as a failure in the payment plan, but a failure on the devs and something that should be fundamentally fixed instead of just slapping "f2p" on it, and milking whats left. i understand having a big corp over a little dev team's head can push devs to do certain things (with payment models), but when a  community is the one asking for band aids instead of fixes to a game they claim to love, i see a serious problem there.
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As amusing as this has been, I believe this thread has gone on long enough.
 
Re-reading everything again (work is awfully quiet today), was pretty painful, and I just want to say that most of you know nothing of which you are talking about. This thread has no value what so ever, you can all preach that you are helping, but really so few of you are. The opinions shared, can be accounted for, but people are reading into facts, and pulling magical facts from facts (factception) that do not exist. 
 
I recommend, we leave this thread, and leave something like this to people that know what they are doing. The marketing experts. At the end of the day, this thread is going around in circles, and someone has got to stop this pitiful thread that embarrasses the entire Wildstar community.
 
 
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Better idea: people who think this thread has run it's course can choose not to read/post in it anymore. People who still want to discuss the various things being discussed can continue to do so. Win/win.
 
PS: the only "problem" with people choosing not to read/post in a thread, is some people have very little self control. But that is a personal problem, not something that can be blamed on this thread.
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Better idea: people who think this thread has run it's course can choose not to read/post in it anymore. People who still want to discuss the various things being discussed can continue to do so. Win/win.
 
PS: the only "problem" with people choosing not to read/post in a thread, is some people have very little self control. But that is a personal problem, not something that can be blamed on this thread.
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your other points were fine. for a f2p model
 
what i wish the mmo community, in general, would consider is a subscription mmo that is failing to produce the quality they want not as a failure in the payment plan, but a failure on the devs and something that should be fundamentally fixed instead of just slapping "f2p" on it, and milking whats left. i understand having a big corp over a little dev team's head can push devs to do certain things (with payment models), but when a  community is the one asking for band aids instead of fixes to a game they claim to love, i see a serious problem there.
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The only thing I have to comment at this point is that it's false to try and make a one-to-one correlation between quality and popularity. If it did, I'm certain WS would be way more popular than it is. But there are so many factors contributing to popularity, and quality is only one of them.
 
I see a similar problem in the music industry right now. You can actually make a really quality product these days for fairly inexpensive costs, but "if you build it they will come" is a pipe dream unless you get very, very lucky.
 
For my money, from a PvE standpoint WS is tops and you won't convince me otherwise. PvP, I'm not so sure. I was recently reading on another game's forums about combat styles, and it seems a lot of people didn't like telegraphs for PvP. I could see how that could be the case. They work wonderfully for PvE, but maybe there are better combat systems out there for PvP. Or maybe those folks were just biased . . .	
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It's unfortunate the people that would like to have a good discussion or bring up ideas about a transition are just buried in flaming piles of angry posts. 
 
For me the simple fact that Carbine has not come out and stated that they have no intention of changing the model with this level of discussion around it leads me to believe it's coming no matter how the players feel. 
 
I hope they go more of a RIFT route with their free to play if they make the switch. (everything was free, you could level raid, dungeons with 0 restrictions)
 
The thing I would most like to see in a cash shop Pristine Key
 
The thing I would least like to see in a cash shop GA Legendaries, and any gear from Datascape.
 
Almost anything else is fine with me.
 
Also I have to agree I hate the freaking RMG boxes. I was RNG boxed to death in SWTOR and I'd prefer not to have that happen again. 	
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Heh. Nice way to turn this cluster**** around on the people calling for rational discussion as opposed to the dead-horse whupping we've got going on here.
 
No one has offered a single new thought in the last 35 pages. That's not a lack of self-control, that's a freaking fact.
 
It's gone around and around and around and has had nothing new added and no official word - thus, it's not only pointless at this juncture but totally without merit.
 
I mean, discuss away, but you're just spinning your wheels to zero effect.
 
If that's your idea of a good discussion ... well ... I don't know what to say to that.
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For me the simple fact that Carbine has not come out and stated that they have no intention of changing the model with this level of discussion around it leads me to believe it's coming no matter how the players feel. 
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I agree so much with this. It boggles my mind how willing people are to shoot themselves in the feet.
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I for one, have no idea how to fix the financial aspects of the game. Before I saw the financials, I thought quality would do it. But it's hard to keep believing that.
 
Yes, I'd prefer a big marketing push over a conversion to some kind of F2P model, but really all of that is out of my depth. Who knows how to keep the game afloat? I just hope I can live with whatever has to be done.	
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In addition to pristine keys in the proto gem store I would like to see:
 
Full amp point unlock
 
Full ability point unlock
 
Those two things combined with attunement are what will keep me playing my medic and only my medic for the time being, because he's only a few points away from having the full set.
 
The current state of amp/ability points is nothing but a time sink, and that makes it perfect to put into a cash shop. I'm not getting anything that a "free" player wouldn't get with time, but I am getting it faster, for money.	
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your other points were fine. for a f2p model
 
what i wish the mmo community, in general, would consider is a subscription mmo that is failing to produce the quality they want not as a failure in the payment plan, but a failure on the devs and something that should be fundamentally fixed instead of just slapping "f2p" on it, and milking whats left. i understand having a big corp over a little dev team's head can push devs to do certain things (with payment models), but when a  community is the one asking for band aids instead of fixes to a game they claim to love, i see a serious problem there.
 
 
 
my point being it is all shit. and we shouldn't be asking for any of it.
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The current state of amp/ability points is nothing but a time sink, and that makes it perfect to put into a cash shop. I'm not getting anything that a "free" player wouldn't get with time, but I am getting it faster, for money.
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In addition to pristine keys in the proto gem store I would like to see:
 
Full amp point unlock
 
Full ability point unlock
 
Those two things combined with attunement are what will keep me playing my medic and only my medic for the time being, because he's only a few points away from having the full set.
 
The current state of amp/ability points is nothing but a time sink, and that makes it perfect to put into a cash shop. I'm not getting anything that a "free" player wouldn't get with time, but I am getting it faster, for money.
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Any style... other than SWTOR's...?
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I agree with this 100% I hate the viability of alts in this game. Outside of AMP and Ability points getting raid gear is the real time sink. So why put to many barriers in front of it. 
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			The paywall is rougher on new IPs, but they've lowered that paywall quite a bit. $20 for a MMO and you get the first month for free so basically you're just paying for your first month as is.But yeah, as much as people wanna deny it F2P is not designed in favor of the players, it's designed to screw players over. The idea that there's some F2P game that's done right where no one is getting screwed over for content/items/etc is unrealistic, they'd never make any money if F2P was "done right". A lot of people are beginning to think going F2P is just the new way of things but I'm still 100% in favor of the current system of a hybrid B2P/P2P, you have something like CREDD to fill in the flaws of pure P2P and you avoid the downfalls of pure B2P and a required cash shop.	
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Definitely would not want to see amp/ability unlocks on the store. Really wouldn't want to see the pristine key there either, since it's a part of the economy as is.
 
But you can do just fine without amp/ability unlocks. I don't see why everyone feels these are so prohibitive.	
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Better idea: people who think this thread has run it's course can choose not to read/post in it anymore. People who still want to discuss the various things being discussed can continue to do so. Win/win.
 
PS: the only "problem" with people choosing not to read/post in a thread, is some people have very little self control. But that is a personal problem, not something that can be blamed on this thread.
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Definitely would not want to see amp/ability unlocks on the store. Really wouldn't want to see the pristine key there either, since it's a part of the economy as is.
 
But you can do just fine without amp/ability unlocks. I don't see why everyone feels these are so prohibitive.
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In addition to pristine keys in the proto gem store I would like to see:
 
Full amp point unlock
 
Full ability point unlock
 
Those two things combined with attunement are what will keep me playing my medic and only my medic for the time being, because he's only a few points away from having the full set.
 
The current state of amp/ability points is nothing but a time sink, and that makes it perfect to put into a cash shop. I'm not getting anything that a "free" player wouldn't get with time, but I am getting it faster, for money.
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I agree with this 100% I hate the viability of alts in this game. Outside of AMP and Ability points getting raid gear is the real time sink. So why put to many barriers in front of it.
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The paywall is rougher on new IPs, but they've lowered that paywall quite a bit. $20 for a MMO and you get the first month for free so basically you're just paying for your first month as is.
 
But yeah, as much as people wanna deny it F2P is not designed in favor of the players, it's designed to screw players over. The idea that there's some F2P game that's done right where no one is getting screwed over for content/items/etc is unrealistic, they'd never make any money if F2P was "done right". A lot of people are beginning to think going F2P is just the new way of things but I'm still 100% in favor of the current system of a hybrid B2P/P2P, you have something like CREDD to fill in the flaws of pure P2P and you avoid the downfalls of pure B2P and a required cash shop.
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i do not agree with paying to unlock amps/abilities straight of the bat. i think this "grind" is needed to make the content more replayable (daily zones, gold shiphands/ dungeons etc)
though, i'd like to see an option so that these unlocks works for all alts. for example, once you have all amps and ability points on a character you now have the option to buy the full amp/ability unlocks for your other characters.
 
pristine key... well... you basically can sell credd to get money to buy one from players in game. i also don't think putting it in the cash shop is needed.
 
cash shop should be filled with cosmetics, mounts, pets, toys, sounds, particle effects, housing stuff, extra character slots, costume slots.
subbing should give you all stipends to spend in the cash shop and it needs to be a real good deal (maybe by subbing 15/month you get 30/month for cash shop stuff).
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Same could be said about raid gear. Where do you draw the line?
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OK, unlocking once is a fine compromise. Because it really is just a time sink. It takes zero skill to run daily quests until your rep is up or you've got enough elder gems.
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thx for agreeing.
 
and you can get amp/abilties by different ways. gold shiphands/dungeons/adventure, daily zone rep, renown farming, random drop (on the AH too i think), pvp...
its the "do it again with your Alt toons" that sucks the most and discourage having Alts for casuals or semi-hardcore players.
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Yup. Once is "part of the experience." Twice, three times, four times? Hell no. I hate to think what will happen when this game raises the level cap. Another round of points you don't get through leveling?
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the main "issue" with the Sub model is that with so many games out there nowadays many players would like to jump in different ones and don't feel like paying 15$ for a few hours per month is worth it.
they want to be able to play when they feel like it (i do play Eso like once or twice a month).
 
and basically, even if somebody plays 5 hours a month, you'd rather have this guy in game "sometimes" than "never"!!!
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Somewhere after amps and ability points, since you're capped in name only until you have full access to your amps and abilities.
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To all the people who are offended by the very notion that AMP/AP unlocks or Pristine Genesis Keys should EVER be in a cash shop:
 
You do understand that these things are BoE items, right? That they're available for plat right now, yeah? And that you can buy plat with cash, you betcha?
 
Newsflash: they are already in a cash shop in every way--except that if they were put in an actual cash shop, suddenly the players trying to sell them wouldn't be inserting themselves as middlemen with their hand out, standing between the purchaser and Carbine.	
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Spoken like a true F2P player, rather have players that want to spend no time in the game and invest nothing in it.
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To all the people who are offended by the very notion that AMP/AP unlocks or Pristine Genesis Keys should EVER be in a cash shop:
 
You do understand that these things are BoE items, right? That they're available for plat right now, yeah? And that you can buy plat with cash, you betcha?
 
Newsflash: they are already in a cash shop in every way--except that if they were put in an actual cash shop, suddenly the players trying to sell them wouldn't be inserting themselves as middlemen with their hand out, standing between the purchaser and Carbine.
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Oh, we tried explaining this to some people a few weeks ago. Apparently, it's "not the same" thing ... even though it's EXACTLY the same thing.
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But you can still enter raid instances and down bosses without them . . .
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absolutely my reasoning too...
you can buy CREDD to buy them already.. if you have the pockets deep enough.
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Then there's really no reason to oppose it, is there. 
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actually, i want ALL players in game.
whatever if they play 500hours a month and spend 500$ a month
or play 5hours a month and spend 5$ a month.
 
i want ALL !!!  B)
 
but you, you are not being inclusive. and "inclusivity" was/is a problem for Wildstar, though they are getting better at it (gear rallying in pvp, easier attunement, more endgame casual content etc etc)
when they finally decide to have some kind of revamp world boss and world event (so they are not pushovers) and slight scaling in PvE also (raid gear is monstrously OP and break the standard lvl 50 gameplay) then they will be even better!
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If they're only playing 5 hours a month by your previous logic regarding willingness to spend on a sub they'd actually be spending 0$ a month because they're already probably paying to play WoW or something.
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			I don't really understand the argument that CREDD is the same as a Cash Shop. I don't really care if the game gets a cash shop or not, but CREDD is very distinguishable, mostly just based on basic economics. CREDD is highly dependent on a player driven market and cash shop is not. That is what it boils down to. We already have such a limited economy in this game (the things that actually sell are 1) runes 2) runic flux 3) amp/ability points 4) cosmetics and 5) pristine keys because they are the only real things with a limited supply and a higher demand. Introducing a cash shop with, for example, pristine keys or amp points in it, will introduce an essentially unlimited supply of the item that isn't really comparable with the way CREDD functions ( high cost, limited ability to buy, fairly low ROI, risk on the purchaser of market changes, complete dependence on player driven economy). 	
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I don't really understand the argument that CREDD is the same as a Cash Shop. I don't really care if the game gets a cash shop or not, but CREDD is very distinguishable, mostly just based on basic economics. CREDD is highly dependent on a player driven market and cash shop is not. That is what it boils down to. We already have such a limited economy in this game (the things that actually sell are 1) runes 2) runic flux 3) amp/ability points 4) cosmetics and 5) pristine keys because they are the only real things with a limited supply and a higher demand. Introducing a cash shop with, for example, pristine keys or amp points in it, will introduce an essentially unlimited supply of the item that isn't really comparable with the way CREDD functions ( high cost, limited ability to buy, fairly low ROI, risk on the purchaser of market changes, complete dependence on player driven economy). 
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You can enter raid instances and down the bosses without that one random extra ability point you get that doesn't contribute to bumping your abilities up a tier too but that's not the point.
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If CREDD = cash shop, then there's no reason to put these items in the cash shop. But if you significantly discount them from where they are now, then yeah, it will change the game.
 
I guess if pristine keys go up for $200 or so on the cash shop (or whatever the going rate is for them), then it's not much different. But I'm guessing that's now what people have in mind?	
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			But also, the difference between cash shop and using CREDD is that you are buying from Carbine vs a player. It's really not the same thing.	
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If CREDD = cash shop, then there's no reason to put these items in the cash shop. But if you significantly discount them from where they are now, then yeah, it will change the game.
 
I guess if pristine keys go up for $200 or so on the cash shop (or whatever the going rate is for them), then it's not much different. But I'm guessing that's now what people have in mind?
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But also, the difference between cash shop and using CREDD is that you are buying from Carbine vs a player. ... WHO PURCHASED IT FROM CARBINE.
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Man, though, at current market prices you are talking about hundreds of dollars to unlock amp/ablity points. The idea of spending that much in one shot on a video game makes me ill :(
 
And right now, the supply side is controlled by farming. People who are able to farm them profit. But once Carbine can just throw them up on the cash shop, no one profits but them. It takes something out of the economy.
 
Anyway, whatever happens happens regarding cash shops. But I hate all of it.	
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Fixed that for you.  ;)
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The point is, someone said "you're not really at cap" without them, but you can do all the things you can do at cap, including the most challenging content. So it's not like not having them is blocking content. They offer further progression for your toon.
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People compare CREDD to a cash shop because it functions the same but with one added step, which is selling the CREDD to a player and using the plat to buy items. All those items you mentioned can be bought for plat, ie with CREDD. As an aside, the limited economy is due to a lack of players creating a lack of need for items. All those items you mentioned as being valuable are worth something because they're used at max level. If there were more players throughout the level spectrum then there would be more demand for other items as well.
 
One of the main arguments against a cash shop, aside from the potential to lock important aspects of the game behind paywalls, is that it gives people with money a way to get things that people without money need to grind for. When we compare CREDD to a cash shop we are pointing out the real fact that this can and does already happen through CREDD purchases. In fact, a have been purchasing CREDD on cool down and will continue to do so until I have enough plat to finish the last few amp points I need. I do this because I value my time enough that the cost of CREDD is worth the time I will save, for one character at least.
 
I hope this helps you understand a little of the reasoning behind the argument.	
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People compare CREDD to a cash shop because it functions the same but with one added step, which is selling the CREDD to a player and using the plat to buy items.
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Man, though, at current market prices you are talking about hundreds of dollars to unlock amp/ablity points. The idea of spending that much in one shot on a video game makes me ill :(
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Max points give you better build options.
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In TOR there were people that were spending thousands per month on the crates (gamble box multipacks).  Thousands.
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Right, but this also removes the plat the players selling these items gain by farming them. Whatever price Carbine sets in the cash shop, that's now going to be the price. It just removes that dynamic from the game, or dampens it at least.
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*passes along the bottle of Dramamine*
 
In TOR there were people that were spending thousands per month on the crates (gamble box multipacks).  Thousands.  And then they'd whine in the main forums that they didn't get that month's special shiny.  As a testament to their intelligence, had they sold some of those unopened packs on the AH they could have bought said shiny from the AH for a small fraction of what they spent dancing with RNG.  I guess playing the market's too much work.
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We have a word for people who waste that kind of money on a video game.
 
And it's not "whale" ...  :lol:
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We have a word for people who waste that kind of money on a video game.
 
And it's not "whale" ...  :lol:
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			For what it's worth, I got 5 ability points through rep, path, adventures, and elder gems. I got two amp points from shiphands and my path. The rest I got with plat, some from selling mystery box items and some from CREDD. So I didn't buy the whole thing with cash, but that last part of the grind was unappealing enough to me that I was willing to spend extra to bypass it.	
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CREDD (which is basically unlimited in-game gold for real world money).
 
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But once Carbine can just throw them up on the cash shop, no one profits but them. It takes something out of the economy.
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This is where I disagree with you. CREDD is limited by Carbine (1 CREDD /24 hrs) and by player demand. You can only sell as much CREDD as people have need for game time. If no-one needs game time, CREDD becomes much less valuable. Cash shop is I pay carbine and I get an item. CREDD is I pay Carbine for another players game time, and they give me plat (time) in return. 
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Yep. The thing it removes from the economy is the middlemen players who stand between Carbine and the cash spender demanding a cut of their own by jacking the price up.
 
This is probably a good thing, because Carbine really has no reason to hand those middlemen a cut of the profit at the expense of their cash spenders. Just sayin'.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is where I disagree with you. CREDD is limited by Carbine (1 CREDD /24 hrs) and by player demand. You can only sell as much CREDD as people have need for game time. If no-one needs game time, CREDD becomes much less valuable. Cash shop is I pay carbine and I get an item. CREDD is I pay Carbine for another players game time, and they give me plat (time) in return.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That doesn't make any sense...
 
In game profits don't effect carbine at all, but a vibrant economy does effect players. In fact, it would be beneficial for Carbine if items cost more plat because that means people who buy CREDD to get plat buy more CREDD. Meanwhile, Carbine doesn't hand anyone a cut of the $ profit from CREDD transactions (except NCSoft) and they get to sell game time at a premium compared to what subscribers otherwise pay for it. Win *cupcaking* Win.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yep. The thing it removes from the economy is the middlemen players who stand between Carbine and the cash spender demanding a cut of their own by jacking the price up.
 
This is probably a good thing, because Carbine really has no reason to hand those middlemen a cut of the profit at the expense of their cash spenders. Just sayin'.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
*passes along the bottle of Dramamine*
 
In TOR there were people that were spending thousands per month on the crates (gamble box multipacks).  Thousands.  And then they'd whine in the main forums that they didn't get that month's special shiny.  As a testament to their intelligence, had they sold some of those unopened packs on the AH they could have bought said shiny from the AH for a small fraction of what they spent dancing with RNG.  I guess playing the market's too much work.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If WS winds up with a cash shop I doubt we'd see the key or the tier point unlocks end up there as that strays too far into P2W territory.  Even still there will still be an IG market for those types of items.  Why spend real money when you can spare the IG plat?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You're describing someone with a gambling addiction - either that or they're greatly exaggerating the amount they spent, and hoping someone takes pity on them and gives them the item they wanted.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
you and tex can't or won't see the difference between CREDD and items directly on a cash shop because you are refusing to take into account the psychological factors ...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
In addition to pristine keys in the proto gem store I would like to see:
 
Full amp point unlock
 
Full ability point unlock
 
Those two things combined with attunement are what will keep me playing my medic and only my medic for the time being, because he's only a few points away from having the full set.
 
The current state of amp/ability points is nothing but a time sink, and that makes it perfect to put into a cash shop. I'm not getting anything that a "free" player wouldn't get with time, but I am getting it faster, for money.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If they're going to add account-wide unlocks, IMHO it should be the way it works by default in-game, rather than through a cash shop. In any case, whether in-game or through the cash shop, you should have to attain those points on one character in-game first to unlock them across your account.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
In game profits don't effect carbine at all, but a vibrant economy does effect players. In fact, it would be beneficial for Carbine if items cost more plat because that means people who buy CREDD to get plat buy more CREDD. Meanwhile, Carbine doesn't hand anyone a cut of the $ profit from CREDD transactions (except NCSoft) and they get to sell game time at a premium compared to what subscribers otherwise pay for it.  Win *cupcaking* Win. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Heh. Nice way to turn this cluster**** around on the people calling for rational discussion as opposed to the dead-horse whupping we've got going on here.
 
No one has offered a single new thought in the last 35 pages. That's not a lack of self-control, that's a freaking fact.
 
It's gone around and around and around and has had nothing new added and no official word - thus, it's not only pointless at this juncture but totally without merit.
 
I mean, discuss away, but you're just spinning your wheels to zero effect.
 
If that's your idea of a good discussion ... well ... I don't know what to say to that.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
In short, if you can sell CREDD and purchase it in-game, it's essentially the same thing as if you purchased it directly from the cash shop. The only real difference is no one (except the company and the purchaser) is getting anything out of the deal. At least with CREDD someone gets a month of game time, at some point in the process. Really, that's the ONLY effective difference.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Also, a lot of people have families/real lives/demanding jobs and cannot commit as many hours as MMOs normally demand. This crowd would much rather spent $40-50 (which is not a lot of money for adults) than grind who knows how long... 
----
			
I'd say if Wildstar produced a good amount of content quarterly, and the average price of a console game is 60$, with a playrate of X hours....
 
I'd expect to spend 60$ quarterly, or minimum 20$ a month.  More, if the game was amazing.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Guy A: I would rather pay money than grind, because I don't have time to grind
 
Guy B: I found the time to grind, and I have a busy life, so you can too
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Everytime I see someone post this excuse, I roll my eyes. I've been playing MMO's since Oct 2001. At that time I was in the Navy. So I had a real life and demanding job. Most of the people in my guild had families, real lives and demanding jobs and we all found the time to play the game. And were happy doing so. Sure we didn't play as much as kids in school or whatever, but we could all find a couple hours a week to level and raid together. I'm not trying to pick on you, I just see this every now and again.
 
On a side note, I'd like to ask any economists out there, with inflation how much would $15 for a service be worth today? Because unless I've been living in the wrong parts of town over the years, my rent, electric/gas and bills in general have been going up over the years.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Anyway, people have different lives than you, and it's not an excuse, it's a reason. One that smart people who like money will take into account when making their business models.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
On a side note, I'd like to ask any economists out there, with inflation how much would $15 for a service be worth today?  Because unless I've been living in the wrong parts of town over the years, my rent, electric/gas and bills in general have been going up over the years.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And before you suggest that this game is competing with WoW? It's not. Before you suggest that it's competing with FF? It's not. Any of NCSoft's other games? Nope.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I bet MuffinMan said this exact same thing as he let PvP here curl up and die.
 
It is not beneficial for Carbine to let players trash the economy for their own profit. It increases the incentive for all other players to do one of two things: buy CREDD, or leave.
 
Guess which one most of them do.
 
Cupcakes Win. Players Lose. Carbine Loses.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 I would agree with this, but farming is easy and as we've discussed CREDD buying isn't the optimal way to get plat in the game. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 I would agree with this, but farming is easy and as we've discussed CREDD buying isn't the optimal way to get plat in the game. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 I would agree with this, but farming is easy and as we've discussed CREDD buying isn't the optimal way to get plat in the game.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It's optimal for me, since the kitties and marauder costumes no longer sell for 60p a pop.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well thats a pity. Was thinking of either a credd or buy a box for some in game money
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
To be fair the box items do seem to be selling for a good deal more than CREDD still.
----
			
A little off topic, but the 'employee' over at reddit who statrded this rumor about F2P in August\might not be wrong.  He mentioned Blade and Soul coming to to NA and is in friends and family beta.  Well it is true.
 
http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/20/blade-soul-hits-western-shores-this-winter/
 
So what he said possibly might have some credibility to it now.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
A little off topic, but the 'employee' over at reddit who statrded this rumor about F2P in August\might not be wrong.  He mentioned Blade and Soul coming to to NA and is in friends and family beta.  Well it is true.
 
http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/20/blade-soul-hits-western-shores-this-winter/
 
So what he said possibly might have some credibility to it now.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
A little off topic, but the 'employee' over at reddit who statrded this rumor about F2P in August\might not be wrong. He mentioned Blade and Soul coming to to NA and is in friends and family beta. Well it is true.
 
http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/20/blade-soul-hits-western-shores-this-winter/
 
So what he said possibly might have some credibility to it now.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
A little off topic, but the 'employee' over at reddit who statrded this rumor about F2P in August\might not be wrong.  He mentioned Blade and Soul coming to to NA and is in friends and family beta.  Well it is true.
 
http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/20/blade-soul-hits-western-shores-this-winter/
 
So what he said possibly might have some credibility to it now.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Hey, nice find. And while I have no doubts that F2P is happening for this game, I'll go ahead and ask the skeptic's question: were there any major rumors this was happening before the alleged employee said so? If so, he may have simply been going off of those rumors. But if not, that definitely gives some credibility to his posts.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The question I still have if whether or not the thing about making WS a default install on Steam Machines is real. It seems to me if that were the case, it would be a pretty big deal, but it also seems crazy unlikely.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Seems like a pipe dream even if it is real. Don't Steam Machines run on Linux?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The question I still have if whether or not the thing about making WS a default install on Steam Machines is real. It seems to me if that were the case, it would be a pretty big deal, but it also seems crazy unlikely.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yes.
----
			As noted, they had been doing OpenGL work on WildStar.... Mac and Linux in mind.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So I just looked up the Steam Machine and apparently some vendors are planning to launch Steam Machines with Windows installed on them. Guess that would be where a WildStar pre install could come into play.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Oh, I stand corrected then. I thought that Valve was pretty adamant about it being Linux.
 
If this turned out to be true, it would be a fantastic vote of confidence for the game from NCSoft.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Oh, I stand corrected then. I thought that Valve was pretty adamant about it being Linux.
 
If this turned out to be true, it would be a fantastic vote of confidence for the game from NCSoft.
----
			I've always thought WS would play pretty well with a controller; even though, it's not my cup of tea, it still would be cool to sit back and use my xbox controller and once and a while.	
----
			Anyway, of the guys claims, this one seemed to be the biggest stretch to me. But if his others turn out to be true, I hope this one does too . . .	
----
			
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
Well, it's the Steam Box makers who are tired of waiting for Valve's SteamOS I guess, so they're shipping the hardware with Windows.
 
I am hoping of huge SteamOS support from major studios so we can finally get rid of Windows out of the mix.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Anyway, of the guys claims, this one seemed to be the biggest stretch to me. But if his others turn out to be true, I hope this one does too . . .
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
A little off topic, but the 'employee' over at reddit who statrded this rumor about F2P in August\might not be wrong.  He mentioned Blade and Soul coming to to NA and is in friends and family beta.  Well it is true.
 
http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/20/blade-soul-hits-western-shores-this-winter/
 
So what he said possibly might have some credibility to it now.
----
			
Hey guys just a reminder that if you want to discuss B&S please take it to off topic. :) 
 
Thanks
- Team WildStar 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Hey guys just a reminder that if you want to discuss B&S please take it to off topic. :)
 
Thanks
- Team WildStar 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
In its absence, it seems like the leaker did know something the rest of us didn't know, after all.
 
Oh, wait, I mean--what an obviously untrustworthy source. Clearly lies. All lies. Nothing to see here, move along.
Not to the SteamDB info. Nothing to see here. Move along.
Not to the management's newfound refusal to deny a business model change. Nothing to see here. Move along.
But not to the Q1 reports. Nothing to see here. Move along.
 
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
In its absence, it seems like the leaker did know something the rest of us didn't know, after all.
 
Oh, wait, I mean--what an obviously untrustworthy source. Clearly lies. All lies. Nothing to see here, move along.
Not to the SteamDB info. Nothing to see here. Move along.
Not to the management's newfound refusal to deny a business model change. Nothing to see here. Move along.
But not to the Q1 reports. Nothing to see here. Move along.
 
moderator edit: content
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
At this point if people aren't convinced it'll have to wait until the actual change is announced.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
At this point if people aren't convinced it'll have to wait until the actual change is announced.
----
			
 Winter is coming and with it the bands of "Free" spirited ice wraiths approach... as long as were on the sub side of the pay wall... we should be safe provided that wall doesn't come down.
 
Unless NCsoft is ok with the current state of the game or theres something brewing to chalk up large revenues we will be facing the inevitable.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Hey, nice find. And while I have no doubts that F2P is happening for this game, I'll go ahead and ask the skeptic's question: were there any major rumors this was happening before the alleged employee said so? If so, he may have simply been going off of those rumors. But if not, that definitely gives some credibility to his posts.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Nice. I've seen videos of the pvp in that game and it looks intense. And this is definitely on topic; it adds more credibility to the claims that the anonymous redditor made regarding WS.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 Some of my friends having nothing but good stuff to say about blade and soul. So im looking forward to its release to try it out.
 
Ill give props to the Ncsoft studios they know how to create visually stunning enviroments. I feel a sense of epicness when im at the location of where kelvorath is..the orsun scape captues my attention everytime.. and after the years that gw2 has been out its sill concidered one of the most visually captivating mmos. Ill have to agree with that in part.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I heard it's just a huge grind and very limited PVE.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
the people like me who have been following BnS knew the game was gonna release in NA EU at last quarter this year since august 2014 at the gamescom, this is not like "hot news" to me http://www.bladeandsouldojo.com/topic/94205-bns-euna-product-manager/
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So... back in August of last year--when this game was still committed to monthly updates--a product manager for B&S stated that they were aiming for beta in early 2015 and a release "rather late" in 2015.
 
And from that you "knew" the game was coming and it wasn't any big surprise to you.
Meanwhile, the leak comes out and within a week there's an announcement that B&S is going live.
 
Nothing to see here. Move along.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I dunno, sounds about as credible as random reddit posts.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I heard it's just a huge grind and very limited PVE.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So... back in August of last year--when this game was still committed to monthly updates--a product manager for B&S stated that they were aiming for beta in early 2015 and a release "rather late" in 2015.
 
And from that you "knew" the game was coming and it wasn't any big surprise to you.
Meanwhile, the leak comes out and within a week there's an announcement that B&S is going live.
 
Nothing to see here. Move along.
----
			Anyway what is more important is that bns is creating a rival for Wildstar within NCsoft, what will happen to WS if BnS brings in double the money? :/	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Anyway what is more important is that bns is creating a rival for Wildstar within NCsoft, what will happen to WS if BnS brings in double the money? :/
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Anyway what is more important is that bns is creating a rival for Wildstar within NCsoft, what will happen to WS if BnS brings in double the money? :/
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Different game, different target audience, different development costs and process, etc.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah but why invest more in WS if it does not bring in the money compared to other games they have?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah but why invest more in WS if it does not bring in the money compared to other games they have?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Because more is invested in WildStar already.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Because more is invested in WildStar already.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
honoring sunk costs fallacy
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I can see why. Just returned after almost a year and hoo boy is this game ever dead on a pre-50 and on life support on one..
Geez, now what am I going to do? Play friggin SWTOR? <_<
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
PvP is just zergin in a huge mostly empty field (which I hated in GW2), and I'm not really talking to anybody...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah but why invest more in WS if it does not bring in the money compared to other games they have?
----
			
Most of that is that you assume that WS is profitable, at the moment that is even questionable.
 
NCsoft already has several products and if WS goes f2p it brings it closer to those products.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Most of that is that you assume that WS is profitable, at the moment that is even questionable.
 
NCsoft already has several products and if WS goes f2p it brings it closer to those products.
----
			
I'm simply reacting to your statements. You are talking about how WS is different compared to other products NCsoft has, one of these differences is the payment model wouldn't you agree?
 
They have already halved their staff a few months ago, what kind of future will WS have if they will cut their staff even further?
If the development of WS stagnate then I don't see them making any improvements in population.
 
I'm simply questioning the reasons NCsoft has to keep WS on life support when it does come that far.
Also thinking how the western market is relatively small for them.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm simply reacting to your statements. You are talking about how WS is different compared to other products NCsoft has, one of these differences is the payment model wouldn't you agree?
 
They have already halved their staff a few months ago, what kind of future will WS have if they will cut their staff even further?
If the development of WS stagnate then I don't see them making any improvements in population.
 
I'm simply questioning the reasons NCsoft has to keep WS on life support when it does come that far.
Also thinking how the western market is relatively small for them.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I will miss RP though, ESO does have that.
----
			
I have read a few responses on I haven't played this game since month 2 of release or something like that, if thats the case:
1. Why even come in here, unless to cheap to invest in the game so saying go f2p.
2. Just want to troll.
 
 
I understand if you are paying for it now and wanting to go f2p or you are playing the game off and on but cant afford the sub and the time (30 minutes a day) to invest to farm for credd.  
 
The only reason I want this game to go f2p is it most likely will bring in more players.  But the quality of players will honestly go down in my opinion.  Correct me if I'm wrong but most likely you will get the teenagers that even though most can be mature, most aren't.  The current playerbase in my experience are in their 20's.  
 
What the report doesnt show is operating costs for this game.  Just shows revenue so in that case, if it's showing any profit, why even cancle it.  
 
I am on the vote for do not go f2p.  Maybe b2p with a cash shop or just implement a cash shop in the current game.  And if still not making the profits that is wanted, go to f2p, this way already have the cash shop implemented.  
 
And who knows what China will think of the game, they may love it.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I have read a few responses on I haven't played this game since month 2 of release or something like that, if thats the case:
1. Why even come in here, unless to cheap to invest in the game so saying go f2p.
2. Just want to troll.
 
 
I understand if you are paying for it now and wanting to go f2p or you are playing the game off and on but cant afford the sub and the time (30 minutes a day) to invest to farm for credd.  
 
The only reason I want this game to go f2p is it most likely will bring in more players.  But the quality of players will honestly go down in my opinion.  Correct me if I'm wrong but most likely you will get the teenagers that even though most can be mature, most aren't.  The current playerbase in my experience are in their 20's.  
 
What the report doesnt show is operating costs for this game.  Just shows revenue so in that case, if it's showing any profit, why even cancle it.  
 
I am on the vote for do not go f2p.  Maybe b2p with a cash shop or just implement a cash shop in the current game.  And if still not making the profits that is wanted, go to f2p, this way already have the cash shop implemented.  
 
And who knows what China will think of the game, they may love it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm simply reacting to your statements. You are talking about how WS is different compared to other products NCsoft has, one of these differences is the payment model wouldn't you agree?
 
They have already halved their staff a few months ago, what kind of future will WS have if they will cut their staff even further?
If the development of WS stagnate then I don't see them making any improvements in population.
 
I'm simply questioning the reasons NCsoft has to keep WS on life support when it does come that far.
Also thinking how the western market is relatively small for them.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Correct me if I'm wrong but most likely you will get the teenagers that even though most can be mature, most aren't.  The current playerbase in my experience are in their 20's.  
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Payment model has no impact on behavior of actual players. It is a myth perpetuated by people wanting to fear monger into thinking subscriptions are the only viable way to run an MMO even though the market and plenty of evidence prove it's not. The same dbags in p2p are in b2p are in f2p. It doesn't matter.
 
You just have more interaction with dbags because the population is larger. That's a matter of probability and nothing to do with payment models. If you live in a remote mountain where you can't find people for miles, the chances of you encountering a dbag is pretty low. The odds of someone being a dbag don't change, just your chance to encounter them. Similarly, if you move to a populated city your chances of encountering one skyrockets.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You really aren't reacting to my statements, since I didn't even speak to the specific differences between their other products nor did I mention payment models of their other games. What you are reacting to is your own agenda and creating a false dialogue that isn't happening. I'd be very curious to see you actually respond to what I've said, since you say you are questioning reasons they would keep supporting Wildstar and I've given you ample reasons that you continue to ignore.
 
So yeah. You just want some confirmation bias all up in here, which I will not take part in.
 
PS- while your question was rhetorical, I already referenced the lower end of the staffing spectrum with LotRO which has now been running for 8 years with constant updates and new ideas for a stale genre. Hem and haw all you like whether it's enjoyable to anyone on an individual basis, but the game continues to move their content forward even with a small team. SWTOR team saw similar reductions, leaders being removed or leaving, and now they have one of the most profitable MMOs with a cash shop.
 
Wildstar could do either of these things, which is...whatever really...since your 'questions' are regarding why would NCSoft support it. I've given you multiple posts why. Maybe they don't have milk where you live so you don't understand the metaphor? That was the simplest reduction of the logic I can give you.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Maybe it's my experiences, but the f2p games i've played vs subscription models, I encountered more dbags and immature players.  Every game has it just the quantity.  Unless I'm a dbag and they are just responding but who knows.
----
			I'd rather ignore 30 people and play with a 100, than play with 30 people and ignore 3.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'd rather ignore 30 people and play with a 100, than play with 30 people and ignore 3.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Maybe it's my experiences, but the f2p games i've played vs subscription models, I encountered more dbags and immature players.  Every game has it just the quantity.  Unless I'm a dbag and they are just responding but who knows.  Also experienced alot more casual players in f2p which is not a bad thing at all.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Right. There are more players, so your chance to encounter them increases. This is what I'm talking about. I don't disagree with what you are saying.
 
I think you should try a little harder to actually read posts instead of pulling a victim card (for someone else) immediately and label what I've done as 'flaming'.
 
Man how things have swung around from beta, when I would be attacked for suggesting that the game would fail as a subscription model to now where I'm having to defend the game, merely as a future revenue stream for a company in a stable of products from people bashing it as worthless.
 
Is this real life?
----