112218-rng-runeslots-runeslot-rerolling-and-why-people-lose-faith-in-carbines-developers

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Let's break this down--- when you get a piece of loot, you get a chance at RNG runeslots.  So let's say you spend 2-3 hours grinding BGs for a shot at an item roll.  You can either put that item to use--- OR dump it in your bank since it doesn't benefit your class.  Assuming it does benefit you, you then have to spend X amount of gold and platinum to rune it out.  Runes could be anywhere from almost a plat per, to something cheap like 30-40 gold.  
 
So right now, we have:
 
Timesink to obtain item
RNG roll on the item
Timesink to obtain currency for runes
 
 
When they implement the item changes, we're going to be able to add a rune to it, or reroll a rune.  This adds yet another timesink / RNG into the equation.
 
This now gives us 3 timesinks, and 2 RNG rolls per item.  When things go well, people say okay!  I'll use it.  But when the RNG goes wrong, they're out of a significant amount of time invested, for effectively nothing.   This is what you call the worst feeling of a MMO.
 
 
It's not too late to scrap the shitty system they're about to implement.  Why do we have to go through this travesty of development when we can simply do something like this:
 
Timesink to procure item
RNG roll
 
Spend platinum and gold on an item to REROLL each slot, as many times as we want, until we reach the customization and slots that we desire. 
 
Right now, there's a chance that we will never see the customization that we desire for the gear.   With a better system, people can spend time towards an achievable goal, complete with timesink and RNG aspects, but with a system that lets them customize.
 
This further opens up the possibilities for people to re-use their gear and re-rune it accordingly based on their desires.  No one person should have to do Walatiki Temple 100 times just at a shot at getting a weapon with nice runeslots.
 
I really hate the comments from my friends that are just "Why do we even play this game?  I just spent 5 hours today farming walatiki temple for nothing."  How is that even a real thing in a modern MMO?  The current system now and the one they're going to implement is still, without a doubt, very alt unfriendly.  If you want people to even consider playing the game on another character, and continue to play the game at all, you simply can't implement things the way they are.	
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			So you're complaining that they're adding a system to fix and change runes that aren't right for you, even though that system will take less time and effort to use than replacing the whole item, which is your only option now? Weird.	
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Let's break this down--- when you get a piece of loot, you get a chance at RNG runeslots.  So let's say you spend 2-3 hours grinding BGs for a shot at an item roll.  You can either put that item to use--- OR dump it in your bank since it doesn't benefit your class.  Assuming it does benefit you, you then have to spend X amount of gold and platinum to rune it out.  Runes could be anywhere from almost a plat per, to something cheap like 30-40 gold.  
 
So right now, we have:
 
Timesink to obtain item
RNG roll on the item
Timesink to obtain currency for runes
 
 
When they implement the item changes, we're going to be able to add a rune to it, or reroll a rune.  This adds yet another timesink / RNG into the equation.
 
This now gives us 3 timesinks, and 2 RNG rolls per item.  When things go well, people say okay!  I'll use it.  But when the RNG goes wrong, they're out of a significant amount of time invested, for effectively nothing.   This is what you call the worst feeling of a MMO.
 
 
It's not too late to scrap the shitty system they're about to implement.  Why do we have to go through this travesty of development when we can simply do something like this:
 
Timesink to procure item
RNG roll
 
Spend platinum and gold on an item to REROLL each slot, as many times as we want, until we reach the customization and slots that we desire. 
 
Right now, there's a chance that we will never see the customization that we desire for the gear.   With a better system, people can spend time towards an achievable goal, complete with timesink and RNG aspects, but with a system that lets them customize.
 
This further opens up the possibilities for people to re-use their gear and re-rune it accordingly based on their desires.  No one person should have to do Walatiki Temple 100 times just at a shot at getting a weapon with nice runeslots.
 
I really hate the comments from my friends that are just "Why do we even play this game?  I just spent 5 hours today farming walatiki temple for nothing."  How is that even a real thing in a modern MMO?  The current system now and the one they're going to implement is still, without a doubt, very alt unfriendly.  If you want people to even consider playing the game on another character, and continue to play the game at all, you simply can't implement things the way they are.
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I get the reasoning that people want item progression, but I don't get the reasoning that every item you ever get has to be 100% optimal for you.
 
Gems cost a lot, yes, and I believe that is being addressed.	
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So you're complaining that they're adding a system to fix and change runes that aren't right for you, even though that system will take less time and effort to use than replacing the whole item, which is your only option now? Weird.
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Sounds like your friends are not playing this game because its fun but rather because they want to achieve something. Thats a dangerous thing when playing mmorpgs. 
 
But yea i know what you mean, but using the argument "we didnt get anything from playing walatiki" is a bit strange. When i farmed my blue pvp gear the first thing i thought of was to get my entire set. When i had the full blue gear i started doing RBG's to get enough rating for better pieces. Since you dont just get 300 rating out of nowhere you will be prestiege capped along the way which lets you invest in trying to get a better version of an item you already have. I currently have 1350 rating and on my 6 pieces of T1 pvp gear i have the best possible slots due to using my left over prestiege.
 
Only thing i can say is that if battlegrounds is just a grind for you, perhaps you should try some other aspect of the game? If all aspects of the game is just a grind to you... perhaps you should play some other game?
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			So all of you guys would be ok if you went to work for 8 hours a day and at the end of the day your boss flips a coin and if it lands heads 3 times in a row you get paid if not tough luck. Thats wildstar Rng runeslots atm	
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Being full earth / logic / life / water on a DPS warrior isn't optimal, period.  It's just a waste of time and energy.
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How is earth/logic/life not useful at all?  I'm pretty sure all 3 (maybe 2 I don't remember) offer Brutality options.
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So all of you guys would be ok if you went to work for 8 hours a day and at the end of the day your boss flips a coin and if it lands heads 3 times in a row you get paid if not tough luck. Thats wildstar Rng runeslots atm
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Brutality is garbage Btw
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How is earth/logic/life not useful at all?  I'm pretty sure all 3 (maybe 2 I don't remember) offer Brutality options.
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			Most commonly said phrase in the game right now, "This item could be awesome once the rune changes come in!". I was one of them at first. Now a month later I'm just meh. Ran all the dungeons to death already I wish they would put in the items we need to reroll the runeslots so we can start collecting them for when they finally put the rune changes in 6 months from now. Agree OP all the randomness on gear sucks ass. 	
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I like the RNG. It leads to an interesting gear dynamic and spurs people away from a straight line BiS mentality. 
 
I get why you don't like it: It spurs you away from a linear and absolute BiS set up with out investing a huge amount of time in it.
 
My advice: get gear that works well for what you need; then min/max it as you go. You don't need uber leet min/maxed piece to run raids let alone all other content in game. 
 
 
While it may be easy to jump on the 'I HATE RNG' bandwagon; you literally have nothing if you don't have RNG. Certainly not an RPG, and MOST certainly not an MMORPG.
 
RNG has and always will be here (in the RPG genre).
 
 
If you don't like it, play a genre that is not literally based on RNG.	
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Perhaps your reading comprehension is lacking, but there are plenty of elements of RNG left in a better system.
 
timesink to obtain
rng slots
timesink money
rng rerolls
 
rng rerolls until desired customization
 
new rune sets come out / pvp healing gets buffed / something blabla bla
 
more rng / timesink into rolls
 
my way:  achievable goals
current way: total RNG
 
 
please try to understand the post.  the way i suggested still requires large amounts of time (plat timesink + RNG), but is more of a quality of life fix for players, something this game is sorely lacking.  
 
 
 
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Let me give you a comparison among far more succesful games than this one:
 
Wildstar, RNG chance to drop, RNG chance for optimal runes, and now (RNG chance to mitigate the larger RNG)
 
WoW:  RNG chance for your loot to drop, item usable regardless of runeslots, customizable runes
Aion:  RNG chance for loot to drop, item usable regardless of runes
GW2:  All items cosmetic, all usable when dropped
Warhammer Online:  RNG chance to drop, item usable regardless
Lineage 2:  RNG chance to drop, item usable
Silkroad:  RNG chance to drop, item usable
 
Which of these MMOs currently has the lowest amount of players, despite being hyped and brand new?  Please, go ahead and add your MMO to the list that I've missed and compare their drops with it.
 
#1 thing that drives people to go after 2% rng drops in asian mmo?  Being able to use it afterwards.	
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I like the RNG. It leads to an interesting gear dynamic and spurs people away from a straight line BiS mentality. 
 
I get why you don't like it: It spurs you away from a linear and absolute BiS set up with out investing a huge amount of time in it.
 
My advice: get gear that works well for what you need; then min/max it as you go. You don't need uber leet min/maxed piece to run raids let alone all other content in game. 
 
 
While it may be easy to jump on the 'I HATE RNG' bandwagon; you literally have nothing if you don't have RNG. Certainly not an RPG, and MOST certainly not an MMORPG.
 
RNG has and always will be here (in the RPG genre).
 
 
If you don't like it, play a genre that is not literally based on RNG.
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first: i dont lose faith in carbine, nor did i ever lose it.
 
the current system is too random, they gonna rework it tho.
 
you want randomness in "extraslots" tho. if there wasnt any random aspect to it, then you just could put the extra stats on the items right of the bat. you put in some amount of randomness to give players options to individualize to their desire.
 
if you and your friends only "farm" pvp or pve... then you should re evealuate how you approach games... or you and your buddies just can go play D3. you know where the door is. good luck. nobody forces you to play a GAME you dont enjoy... so just bugger off
 
PS: warhammer online is dead since last year =)	
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I really hate the comments from my friends that are just "Why do we even play this game? I just spent 5 hours today farming walatiki temple for nothing." How is that even a real thing in a modern MMO? The current system now and the one they're going to implement is still, without a doubt, very alt unfriendly. If you want people to even consider playing the game on another character, and continue to play the game at all, you simply can't implement things the way they are.
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first: i dont lose faith in carbine, nor did i ever lose it.
 
the current system is too random, they gonna rework it tho.
 
The whole point is that they're reworking it into something that still doesn't solve the problem--- you know, the trend Carbine has with their game.
 
you want randomness in "extraslots" tho. if there wasnt any random aspect to it, then you just could put the extra stats on the items right of the bat. you put in some amount of randomness to give players options to individualize to their desire.
 
No, individualizing is what runeslots are for, not RNG slots.  If every slot was an Omni this would be far better.
 
if you and your friends only "farm" pvp or pve... then you should re evealuate how you approach games... or you and your buddies just can go play D3. you know where the door is. good luck. nobody forces you to play a GAME you dont enjoy... so just bugger off
 
To that I say to you, bugger off, because you're not being constructive.  We want to play arenas.  With arenas come competition.  Competition means optimal slots.  A warrior with pvp defense stacked instead of pvp offense is useless.  They already get kited all day, you may as well ignore them at that point.
 
So maybe you're right. We should reevaluate our desire to play Wildstar, as it simply doesn't have competent developers that are too blind to use working concepts from existing mmos.
 
PS: warhammer online is dead since last year =)
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Sounds like a problem with your friends' mentality, why would you be getting PvP gear if you think farming PvP is a hassle? Would you prefer you have a ton of prestige and nothing to use it on? You're going to be using it to purchase gear and salvage that gear to use for runing anyways.
 
I'm gonna take a guess and say you have too many war/esper friends, fire/fusion slots being the only highly beneficial slots for some classes is the real problem.
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Let's do napkin math. Let's say we queue up for practice BGs all day long, to get some gear for our high arena rating that we've spent time on.
 
Since Walatiki Temple is the only thing that pops, and it takes on average 15-20 minutes a game, if we stomp them, that's 300-400 prestige a win. Let's say on average we're trying to roll a 2400 prestige piece. That's 6 games, around 2 hours of winning, just for an RNG shot at an item. 
 
So let's say on average it takes about 2-3 hours per piece to reroll for runeslots. That's 2-3 hours of walatiki temple just for a chance to spend plat to rune something up--- or throw it in the bank / salvage it. So let's say we want fire / fusion / air / omni in 3 slots. That's around a 10% chance to get optimal slots, or a 1/4 chance of getting usable but not optimal pieces. So let's highball that. On average it takes 8-12 hours for a an optimal average piece. That's 2 days of playtime for someone who plays a lot, and all week for a casual.
 
RNG *cupcake*ing blows man. Drastic reduction in quality of life for the players.
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I understand how it is, but I'd take the old non-random system on top of the rune update coming soon before your suggestion.
 
Also, keep in mind you're using T2 prices as an example and T1s aren't as expensive nor are T2 pieces all that great anymore. I've been updating my gear to T2 slowly and the upgrades are very small even IF completely optimal. Anyways, I just see it as a mentality issue, I PvP because I enjoy it not because I wanna farm prestige.
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			Well lets be fair here, BGs aren't going to be awful because you're using 3-4 bad pieces of T2 or something like that. Arena may be but definitely not BGs, I go around doing double the dmg of the next highest dmg in my BGs all the time and my team will still not win 100% of the time.I'd just advocate changing back to the old preset way with the upcoming changes personally rather than using an idea built on the new changes to create more sinks. All they have to do is leave the gadgets as random still and I think that'd make everyone happy.	
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I agree with OP.
 
Completely get RID of the random rune slot type system!
 
Just because they will now let me roll on rng again (once!) doesn't mean I will get the rune slot type I want or need. That means that if the rng gods don't shine on me that day, I have essentially lost the time it took for me to acquire that item. If I want all earth rune slots....let me HAVE them. I want to tailor my rune slots exactly how I want them.
 
With Carbine's upcoming changes, they have essentially gotten rid of only ONE rng roll. This is not enough! A big reason a lot of players left, was exactly because of the rng rune system. It was not JUST because of the rng for the number of slots....it was ALSO because of the rng for rune slot types. Let's try to put this in perspective.
 
1) RNG for item to drop
2) RNG to win the item
3) RNG to have the rune slot types you need
4) RNG to roll on the rune slot types you don't want
5) RNG so the your reroll of the rune slot gives you the rune slot you do want. You will play with rng for as many rune slot types that you don't like. For example, Blue gear has 4 rune slots I believe. So.....4xRNG if all the runes slot types suck for whatever you are trying to build.
 
It is ridiculous this type of system still exists! This is rngception! Just because now I don't have to deal with playing rng for the amount of rune slots a gear can have, doesn't mean I'm going to be happy when their is still SO MANY rng rolls I need to get through for the item stats I want. Most mmo's....like WoW....only have two rng's (#1-2 on my list) and STILL many people struggled to get the gear they wanted. The only way I can stomach this kind of system, is if items drop like candy in Halloween for us when doing whatever we are doing. SHOWER me with items so that when the rng gods don't shine on me, and they often do not, then I can throw the item away without having wasted so much time.
 
I propose a better system. Let us replace the rune slot types that we want with an item which drop in dungeons. This item will come in all flavors of the rune types in the game. So there will be fire, earth, air, etc. So if I get an Earth item. I will be able to change any rune slot on a piece of gear to earth type. Once the item is used, it cannot be used again. Also make all runes slot types be able to be changed as many times as we want. This will better let us tailor our stats to our build.
 
I think Carbine is missing something. How player psychology works. If there is an item that is available in the game. Players WILL want. If that item is hidden behind extreme rng, which is essentially a big ass wall, players get frustrated. Because you have essentially told the players that it doesn't matter how skillful or dedicated you are. You will have to pray like the rest of them. There is a big difference between an item behind a raid (player dedication can get through that wall) and an item hidden behind extreme rng when you have already won the rng for it (player dedication does not matter). Statistically, ofc you can beat rng....but that's not how the mind works. The mind will just say..cupcake this crap!
 
Please Carbine devs. You are making a tremendous mistake by only just slightly tweaking the current system. This game, as im sure you have already seen, is dying fast! I want this game to survive because its fun. This game is like a rough diamond waiting to be cut, faceted, and polished. I don't think im exaggerating when saying that this games only chance is with the upcoming big core systems patch you guys have laid down for us. The megaservers you guys announced only will help the bleeding for the short term. If the upcoming big changes fail.....and trust me on this one....there will be yet another exodus of players.....players you guys absolutely do NOT want to lose. When and if that happens, I guarantee you guys will go f2p and the only thing you guys will be developing are cosmetic items. 	
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Well lets be fair here, BGs aren't going to be awful because you're using 3-4 bad pieces of T2 or something like that. Arena may be but definitely not BGs, I go around doing double the dmg of the next highest dmg in my BGs all the time and my team will still not win 100% of the time.
 
I'd just advocate changing back to the old preset way with the upcoming changes personally rather than using an idea built on the new changes to create more sinks. All they have to do is leave the gadgets as random still and I think that'd make everyone happy.
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I agree with OP.
 
Completely get RID of the random rune slot type system!
 
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Anecdotal evidence of bg performance does not, in any way, have anything to do with RNG runes. However, having poor runes will matter when it comes to killing that healer that has optimal runes, or surviving that spellslinger who has optimal runes.
 
The difference between a dps warrior for example with good runes and bad runes is something like 400-500 ap, or 1600-2000 pvpo. That's a tremendous increase in damage, something necessary for warriors to be effective in a game where ranged does as much damage and AoE EVERYWHERE.
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in this thread: casuals without carpal tunnel syndrome complaining about RNG. We need more RNG in this game, specially in the login screen (sometimes you get to play, sometimes you don't). That's the way for this game to become a niche! Hardcore! 	
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Dont forget that along with rune changes, all classes will get the same amount of AP from their main stat (which is 0.61 i believe?). Which means for you as a Warrior, all rune types will be good, the weakest would be logic with the option to put Weapon Specialist or Assassin, and that can be changed to something with AP/Brutality.
 
The fix to rune slots they are implementing is great and it will solve all gear issues.	
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Dont forget that along with rune changes, all classes will get the same amount of AP from their main stat (which is 0.61 i believe?). Which means for you as a Warrior, all rune types will be good, the weakest would be logic with the option to put Weapon Specialist or Assassin, and that can be changed to something with AP/Brutality.
 
The fix to rune slots they are implementing is great and it will solve all gear issues.
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Sigh... Sorry to turn this into a PvP vs PvE argument but...
 
...The OP has no idea on who is getting the shortest stick here and when reading things like "2/3 hours on walakiki temple to...", I can't but feel some ppl just want to get everything served on a silver plate.
 
Try to gather 20 ppl and then ONCE PER WEEK you get a 1/6 - 1/24 chance to see an item you need and then... See what runes you get. And you know what? Some of those ppl keep on playing because they understand this RNG is needed for having ppl recurringly coming to the same content so the other 19 have a chance to get an upgrade.
 
When the OP claims "customization" is just translating "I want to minmax without effort". This is the key concept on WS itemization... You can get an average update rather easily but... Getting TOP performance requires a lot of effort. That's why the rune system has to retain a certain level of RNG.
 
Coming from the shortest stick... I can agree that current RNG is just too much but precissely because I have seen the effects on groups... I FULLY SUPPORT that some of this RNG remains, so minmaxers can help other ppl get their "average upgrades" while seeking their BiS.
 
Even PvP lone wolves like the OP seeking to "customize" their characters to the current FOTM, are "grouped"... If you allow players to get their BiS directly those PvP queues will empty faster and overall activity would drop... Something no PvPer should ask for.
 
Yes, rune system is RNG, it's a damn grind but... It's something YOU VOLUNTARILY get involved because you want to MINMAX your character to top performance. The incoming changes are alleviating the current situation (I repeat, I support the change) while been sure ppl obssessed with minmaxing have to invest enough time so others can get groups/find opponents for longer.	
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			The rune system gives you an incentive to keep running dungeons/raids. It is a very frustrating system as it is right now, but with the proposed changes I am completely and utterly fine with it. I can't explain why, but I feel like it would be very boring if we just put the desired slots into our gear. It's not enough we can reroll slots and add extra runeslots? 	
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Perhaps that's why the game isn't doing as well as people had expected.  Great storyline, concept, humor, and nerdiness, but so far the worst and buggiest implementations of systems I have seen in an MMO in a long time.
 
 
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I don't really know why this is a PvP vs PvE argument, or why you're somehow calling me a PvP lone wolf, and saying your opinion somehow is more important than mine.  I'm afraid you're making the wrong assumption that I do not know what goes into the PvE / Raiding aspect of the game, and you're also making the wrong assumption about the PvP aspect.  I'll try to answer / respond to your opinions in the red text below:
 
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Sigh... Sorry to turn this into a PvP vs PvE argument but...
 
...The OP has no idea on who is getting the shortest stick here and when reading things like "2/3 hours on walakiki temple to...", I can't but feel some ppl just want to get everything served on a silver plate.
 
I'm not sure why you think that loot is the be all end all of this MMORPG called Wildstar.  Gear and loot are just a tool to achieve the main goals. PvE - Clearing Content. and PvP - Competing for the top rank / seasonal winners.
 
Try to gather 20 ppl and then ONCE PER WEEK you get a 1/6 - 1/24 chance to see an item you need and then... See what runes you get. And you know what? Some of those ppl keep on playing because they understand this RNG is needed for having ppl recurringly coming to the same content so the other 19 have a chance to get an upgrade.
 
I've done the raiding scene before, trust me.  I understand that it takes quite a bit of effort to organize / get people together to clear content.  However, RNG is not needed to "keep people playing, so that other people can get a chance to get the gear."  I think most people want to clear the content, and enjoy doing so.  The gear is a reward for clearing the content.  It allows the person who achieved the goal (content clearing) to look different, have better stats, and have an easier / quicker time clearing the content.  This is so that they can move to the next level of content (40 man raids / Future Raids) when the time comes.  The goal is not to obtain certain pieces of loot, while some people might have their focus on it (loot *cupcake* much),  but for 20 people to experience, enjoy, and clear content together, as a team.  Having the RNG in fact HINDERS each of these different aspects, which is why they're trying to change it, without scrapping the idea as a whole.  They're putting in tokens, but I'm sure they'll still require RNGslots.
 
Just to say it again, you do not need RNG gear to keep people interested in doing the content / progressing. The carrot for the majority there lies with the ability to have a shot at "Epic Sword of Wonder" after killing "Super Hard End Game Boss."  Not, "Epic Sword of Wonder" with so and so slots, or so and so slots. 
 
When the OP claims "customization" is just translating "I want to minmax without effort". This is the key concept on WS itemization... You can get an average update rather easily but... Getting TOP performance requires a lot of effort. That's why the rune system has to retain a certain level of RNG.
 
No, I want customization.  Customization means I get to pick and choose what goes in the runeslots AFTER I obtain the item.  I shouldn't need a new item every time I want to try different customization.  That's just silly and even worse for a PvE focused player / Raider.  At least PvP focused players get to reroll with prestige.
 
Coming from the shortest stick... I can agree that current RNG is just too much but precissely because I have seen the effects on groups... I FULLY SUPPORT that some of this RNG remains, so minmaxers can help other ppl get their "average upgrades" while seeking their BiS.
 
What you're looking for here is engaging content and necessary gear tiering, not RNG runeslots.  You only need 1 level of RNG here, not 2.
 
Even PvP lone wolves like the OP seeking to "customize" their characters to the current FOTM, are "grouped"... If you allow players to get their BiS directly those PvP queues will empty faster and overall activity would drop... Something no PvPer should ask for.
 
What assumption have you made that PvPers stop playing once they get the gear they need?  That's a PvE concept.  Getting their gear is a stepping stone to achieve the actual goal:  Better play, better competition, beating the opponent, ranking higher, receiving end of season rewards, bragging rights, etc.  PvPers stop competing when they feel like they have reached a plateau, and if they continue they might lose some of the rewards they've gained.  Until then, PvPers pvp because it's inherently fun to compete against others.
 
Yes, rune system is RNG, it's a damn grind but... It's something YOU VOLUNTARILY get involved because you want to MINMAX your character to top performance. The incoming changes are alleviating the current situation (I repeat, I support the change) while been sure ppl obssessed with minmaxing have to invest enough time so others can get groups/find opponents for longer.
 
Id rather just have a certain number of slots per level of quality of the item (like they're putting in) then just being able to customize accordingly.  In a PvE sense, if I want to round out my moxie and finesse, then stack brutality, I should be allowed to.  I shouldn't be pigeonholed into whatever x piece that dropped for me allows me to put in there.    As far as PvP goes--- no one wants *cupcake*ing RNG, ever, It undermines the basis of PvP in its entirety.
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I'm pretty cupcake sure that this was one of the top reasons players left the game. All I've been reading in the forums since players started to reach lvl 50 was "grind grind grind rng rng rng grind grind rng rng". Players even made that hilarious meme that Boni posted which basically sums up WS at lvl 50.
 
Except for the few that left before even reaching lvl 50, MOST players left when they got to 50 and were greeted with a big cupcake wall that players found too boring to grind out. Why cant Carbine understand that we do NOT want to keep grinding for the same gear over and over and over again? If i put in 20 hours of my time to get x chest piece....i do NOT cupcake want to grind for the same x chest piece again because of rngception. However, what players ARE willing to do, is put in more time to UPGRADE those pieces without having to dump the gear they already put in 20 hours for! Its called progression. Having to grind for the same gear again is going backwards. 
 
The next part is having true customization like Eclips mentions. Why can't we do that? There is absolutely no reason to deny us that. Give us a system where we can change the rune slot types to whatever we desire! That's a carrot players will actually ENJOY chasing after. 
 
The biggest weakness this new system will bring is that NO MATTER WHAT! there WILL be a rune slot type/s that is/are NOT as desirable by the player which is the same weakness as the current system. Carbine you are trying to lessen this I know, but the fact still remains that there WILL be one....you can't beat math. This means that the player is stuck with it unless he spends yet another x hours to grind to the same item again. Do you know how players feel when that happens? Frustration will happen thats what! Carbine you know FULL well what happens when players are frustrated.....simple....they LEAVE THE GAME. We are trying to avoid that remember?
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Is the current system crap? Sure.
Is the upcoming system crap*? I don't think so.
 
High probability % to get exactly the slot you want plus more rune elements becoming a good choice for classes equals a very fair system.
 
Sorry, but in my opinion it's high time people stop complaining about this until the relevant patch hits.
 
 
 
 
*This heavily depends on how available the reroll/extra slot systems will be. We'll see.	
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Sigh... Sorry to turn this into a PvP vs PvE argument but...
 
...The OP has no idea on who is getting the shortest stick here and when reading things like "2/3 hours on walakiki temple to...", I can't but feel some ppl just want to get everything served on a silver plate.
 
Try to gather 20 ppl and then ONCE PER WEEK you get a 1/6 - 1/24 chance to see an item you need and then... See what runes you get. And you know what? Some of those ppl keep on playing because they understand this RNG is needed for having ppl recurringly coming to the same content so the other 19 have a chance to get an upgrade.
 
When the OP claims "customization" is just translating "I want to minmax without effort". This is the key concept on WS itemization... You can get an average update rather easily but... Getting TOP performance requires a lot of effort. That's why the rune system has to retain a certain level of RNG.
 
Coming from the shortest stick... I can agree that current RNG is just too much but precissely because I have seen the effects on groups... I FULLY SUPPORT that some of this RNG remains, so minmaxers can help other ppl get their "average upgrades" while seeking their BiS.
 
Even PvP lone wolves like the OP seeking to "customize" their characters to the current FOTM, are "grouped"... If you allow players to get their BiS directly those PvP queues will empty faster and overall activity would drop... Something no PvPer should ask for.
 
Yes, rune system is RNG, it's a damn grind but... It's something YOU VOLUNTARILY get involved because you want to MINMAX your character to top performance. The incoming changes are alleviating the current situation (I repeat, I support the change) while been sure ppl obssessed with minmaxing have to invest enough time so others can get groups/find opponents for longer.
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I think Carbine is missing something. How player psychology works. If there is an item that is available in the game. Players WILL want. If that item is hidden behind extreme rng, which is essentially a big ass wall, players get frustrated. Because you have essentially told the players that it doesn't matter how skillful or dedicated you are. You will have to pray like the rest of them. There is a big difference between an item behind a raid (player dedication can get through that wall) and an item hidden behind extreme rng when you have already won the rng for it (player dedication does not matter).
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What if an item dropped so that you could change the rune slot type with said item? 
 
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Tbh I hate the current system and this idea they are going to impliment is No better.
Knowing Carbine they are going to make rerolls cost 50d-1plat because screw the player base.
Everything is a Gold Sync and this new idea will be one too. Get rid of the rune system and give us less RNG for once.
This game will lose a substantial ammount of people if they dont fix this system. Shoot, putting the main class fixes off until defile is a bad call as well, but it was a good game while it lasted, could have been great.	
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Is the current system crap? Sure.
Is the upcoming system crap*? I don't think so.
 
High probability % to get exactly the slot you want plus more rune elements becoming a good choice for classes equals a very fair system.
*This heavily depends on how available the reroll/extra slot systems will be. We'll see.
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It just seems like yet another band-aid fix to try to alleviate the root issue (bad design.)  Are there not people in charge that can say, "Hey, that system doesn't work well.  Don't spend months trying to put in something that makes the shit system less stinky.  Spend your time wisely, and scrap that old system / create something desirable to the playerbase."  This system and the new one reaks of f2p / cash shop intended game modes.  This isn't player friendly at all.
 
That's a problem.  The systems Carbine have put in place are far away from player friendly and user oriented, and if anything, close to cash shop.  I can see that Carbine wants to milk us for $ so that their business model works out, but wouldn't a better goal be to create a game that many people want to play, not one that punishes you for trying to play?
 
I know the new rune changes are going to make the current system less harsh, but it still doesn't fix the issue.  People don't want to 15$ a month to play against RNG walls.  Either take away the subscription and make the game pay to win, or give us a subscription and make the game user friendly, imo.  This starts with scrapping current and future bad design, and implementing rune systems that give players a goal, instead of make them pull their hair out.
 
Subscribers want to play this game, Carbine just asks them for money and throws them through the frustration gauntlet.  The end result is what you see--- megaservers, bad reviews on just about every game site, no big streamers playing, no upward growth.  CEO leaves, numbers are down, etc.
 
Seriously if this had WoW systems with Wildstar combat, flavor, and storyline, this game would be off the charts.  I don't think that's a farfetch'd statement at all.	
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			To be honest I hope they redo the entire rng system. Also hope they fix classes with hotfixes. At the rate people are quitting NC soft will step in and force changes :(. I sure as heck dont want that, ive seen how they like to change games.	
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Too lazy to read through the entire thread, so I might just be repeating something said by others.
 
Rerolling is, for most classes, entirely a risk free investment.
 
I'll use DPS Engineer for my example. Our worst slots are Earth and Logic. When you reroll a Logic rune, the worst possible case you can get is Earth+Life, which is an improvement. When you reroll a Earth slot, worst case is Logic+Life, which is still an improvement. Even better you can reroll slots that are good but not perfect (e.g. Water, Life) because if you don't get one of the best slots (Fire, Air for Engineer), then you can always cancel out of the process and keep your good slot.
 
At least for Engineers, it is an entirely risk free process. I imagine this is the same for just about any class.	
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A high probability to get exactly the right slot (which this isn't, just a fair chance to not get a bad slot) 
   
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Agree 100% with Tenner. It may not appease the super-duper-hardcore min/maxers who wan't every single stat gone in exchange for AP and strikethrough.. but making all element slots useful and removing the dominance of AP plus adding the reroll capability is a pretty solid system that keeps things random but also keeps all gear relevant.
 
Obvious potential QoL issues aside (rarity of items for the new processes), it's a good improvement. 	
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UGH.   You guys are all whining like little bitches when this game is just starting out.  The RNG runes were a change from the fixed, totally useless rune slot choices that you were stuck with.  I doubt this is a finished product.  FFS, the rune CHOICES are all *cupcake*ed up right now... If you want to find a reason to quit and justify it by crying about runes, so be it...
 
Also I cant answer to PVE but people whining about PvP rune slot RNG need to get a grip.  If you could choose your rune slots as you want them then you'd probably have to grind a week and a half per piece... instead of buying a piece every 3-5 games.
 
The idea that they might do something like allowing you to change one slot to omni at a premium cost is... INCONCEIVABLE!!	
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UGH.   You guys are all whining like little bitches when this game is just starting out.  The RNG runes were a change from the fixed, totally useless rune slot choices that you were stuck with.  I doubt this is a finished product.  FFS, the rune CHOICES are all *cupcake*ed up right now... If you want to find a reason to quit and justify it by crying about runes, so be it...
 
Also I cant answer to PVE but people whining about PvP rune slot RNG need to get a grip.  If you could choose your rune slots as you want them then you'd probably have to grind a week and a half per piece... instead of buying a piece every 3-5 games.
 
The idea that they might do something like allowing you to change one slot to omni at a premium cost is... INCONCEIVABLE!!
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Oh hey thanks for being oh so constructive. With attitude like that no one will listen.
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Oh hey thanks for being oh so constructive. With attitude like that no one will listen.
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Hey everybody,
 
With J-Tal's extensive series of threads on runes and the changes going on over here - https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/108017-upcoming-rune-system-changes-the-series/, I'm going to lock this one and ask that the discussion be moved over.	
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