124218-people-are-not-subbing

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EDITED TO MAKE IT MORE CLEAR
 
This is not: "MAKE IT F2P"This is: I saw what's happening there and they are just waiting for free to play, no new content, no new expansion, no new lore. they are there, outside the gate, waiting for free to play like zombies at the door.
and yes, they are sure this is going to happen because NcSoft already did it with tons of other games. This is not "what do you guys think about f2p"this is: adding new content is not working, and people are not aiming to it. it's time to aim at the real problem of population: payment system.There's not only F2P and B2P models in this world. and it is not written any were that they have to change it to something that already exist. they could even invent a new one and make it work.
 
And everyone of you, could tell the same, just try to log-in another game and ask the players .. "would you play WS" and listen to what he answer. 	
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			and until that time comes, I'll still be happily paying my subscription and playing the game.	
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I have a sub. If they end up going F2p I would hope that I would just get the normal shiny perk that come with the transition and I would probably either continue to sub (depending on perks) or spend around the same amount in the cash shop. 
 
I have zero problem supporting a game I enjoy playing with actual cash.
 
I think F2p could increase the player base a lot,or a version of B2p like Guild wars 2. F2p probably wouldn't be a bad thing it has kept games like SWTOR and RIFT going long past the time when people said they would die. Not to mention even more niche games like LOTRO and Dungeons and Dragons, and Never Winter Online. 
 
I'd love to see more people get into Wildstar but in my opinion a few things keep people out. Pointless things like attunement make it tough for new players and alt's, the lack of casual group finder raids, and the lack of events for holidays, or in general like SWTOR's double exp weekends. 	
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and until that time comes, I'll still be happily paying my subscription and playing the game.
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Hi folks, this is not a thread about f2p itself
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			Can we please change the forum code of conduct so that mods can just delete all f2p topics from now on? This trolling is getting really annoying.	
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thread tags
 
<f2p> <payment model> <payment> <free> <free to play>
 
 
 
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this is not a thread about f2p
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			do what you want, there's no new subs, and everyone's waiting for the game to die and change like... hem...Aion...tera..?lineage 2..?everybody knows they will turn f2p they are just waiting out Also: you can do nothing about that, this post is just informative since it seems devs knows nothing of what's going on out there. it was not supposed to have any replies from you, and i honestly think no replies is needed 	
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You might not like what he's saying but he is right. Whether you like it or not games with more content at release than WildStar are Free To Play. I mostly see, is this:
 
"Wildstar is cool but I can't see spending $15 bucks a month for it...not enough content".
 
 
People always say WoW has 10 years of content and it's unfair to compare. It's not just WoW now. There are solid Free To Play games with years of content now. It's difficult to get people to pay 15 a month When Rift and SWTOR have more content and if you are talking Subs FF:ARR has more content. What's even worse for WildStar is people find those other games content MORE ACCESIBLE.	
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They who do not sub now will not sub/pay after transition, if god forbids it ever happened. And there will not be more content, there will be less content, because the whole team will be working on system conversion. None of the games that were converted were good in the first place, that is why they failed.
  
There is nothing wrong with being a smaller niche game, but be a good game with a good community. Rather then have all the f2p parasite MMO-hoppers hanging on with no real benefit to that, and certainly not the financial one.
 
All good things require effort, determination and conviction. 	
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They who do not sub now will not sub/pay after transition, if god forbids it ever happened. And there will not be more content, there will be less content, because the whole team will be working on system conversion. None of the games that were converted were good in the first place, that is why they failed.
  
There is nothing wrong with being a smaller niche game, but be a good game with a good community. Rather then have all the f2p parasite MMO-hoppers hanging on with no real benefit to that, and certainly not the financial one.
 
All good things require effort, determination and conviction. 
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everybody knows they will turn f2p they are just waiting out
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I don't think you can say that Rift, SWTOR, and TERA are pretty good games, Whie Lineage 2 and Aion are a little to grindy for the West. The fact is F2p isn't right for every game and it isn't done well by every game.(SWTOR looking at you) The fact is Wildstar has great combat and good content now but not a lot of people are seeing it and not to many people are completing it. It's a lot to ask your gamers to sub for an entire year and  to not have a new raid. Yes I know 90% of people haven't finished DS 20, does that mean it's to hard or dose that mean the DEVs made it hard because they know they don't have anything else ready to come out. 
 
This game has been out for almost a year now. We have not had one single holiday event, or any event to inspire extra play, Attunement is still horrible, raid content is slightly overtuned (adding this considering 95% of players have not completed DS), pvp is dead most of the time, pvp servers have gone the way of the dodo bird, and players maybe slightly on the rise but seeing where we dropped from it's not a great inspiration. 
 
I don't have all the answers or even any of them but I know something needs to change to keep people coming it could be content based it could subscription model based, it could be that both need to change. 
 
F2p transition would take away time for the creation of new content, but to be fair new content dose not seem to becoming out at fast pace anyways. We went from one month to 3+ months. We still have 2 raids, we added one dungeons, and vet shiphands that are only good for cash. We have lost a ton of players over time to not being able to use the group finder to get into queues quickly, and most of the pvp community has left. I would also add that we have no major folks that stream this game, people really don't want to watch the same thing for weeks on end. 
 
A lot of the issues seemed to come from the original game design (Hardcore) and what gamers actually wanted. The DEV's are doing a great job to correct that but is it to late without a drastic change? Only time will tell. I'm sure they have internal number and can tell how many accounts out of how many are subbed have completed all the raid content. I bet that number doesn't look to good. Group content is what keeps people coming back, but it also can't be so hard people never finish it. 
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I guess we should all believe these predictions now, since you started this thread with a big lie about your intent. That makes sense.
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Damn boy, you really hate f2p so much you can't read what i wrote? 
 
This is not: "MAKE IT F2P"
 
This is: I saw what's happening there and they are just waiting for free to play, no new content, no new expansion, no new lore. they are there, outside the gate, waiting for free to play like zombies at the door.
and yes, they are sure this is going to happen because NcSoft already did it with tons of other games. 
 
This is not "what do you guys think about f2p"
this is: adding new content is not working, and people are not aiming to it. it's time to aim at the real problem of population: payment system.
 
There's not only F2P and B2P models in this world. and it is not written any were that they have to change it to something that already exist. they could even invent a new one and make it work.
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Damn boy, you really hate f2p so much you can't read what i wrote? 
 
This is not: "MAKE IT F2P"
 
This is: I saw what's happening there and they are just waiting for free to play, no new content, no new expansion, no new lore. they are there, outside the gate, waiting for free to play like zombies at the door.
and yes, they are sure this is going to happen because NcSoft already did it with tons of other games. 
 
This is not "what do you guys think about f2p"
this is: adding new content is not working, and people are not aiming to it. it's time to aim at the real problem of population: payment system.
 
There's not only F2P and B2P models in this world. and it is not written any were that they have to change it to something that already exist. they could even invent a new one and make it work.
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They who do not sub now will not sub/pay after transition, if god forbids it ever happened. And there will not be more content, there will be less content, because the whole team will be working on system conversion. None of the games that were converted were good in the first place, that is why they failed.
 
There is nothing wrong with being a smaller niche game, but be a good game with a good community. Rather then have all the f2p parasite MMO-hoppers hanging on with no real benefit to that, and certainly not the financial one.
 
All good things require effort, determination and conviction.
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pay us for playing?
Sorry, but I cannot take any of these threads serious.
If I had to believe every single one of them, I had to really questions all the people currently leading these companies.
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they had been saying the same in TERA and AION too when i was playing.
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Oh, trust me, I know what this thread is.
 
50% look at me
50% I'm right
 
 
And hey, fyi, they DID try a new sub model. It's called CREDD.
 
 
 
edited for clarity
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Creed already exist in other games and it is not working since in europe it costs more than 40plat.
ALSO: you can't enter and buy creed to play "free" the first step always has to be a payment 
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And?
Does that make you some kind of oracle?
Someone who knows how the gaming industry works?
Or someone who just got lucky on Asian game guessing?
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and now they are free
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All you have to do is pay the game and set up a subscription, cancel it, and farm the plat.
Classic B2P model right there.
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Creed already exist in other games and it is not working since in europe it costs more than 40plat.
ALSO: you can't enter and buy creed to play "free" the first step always has to be a payment 
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Imagine paying for a service, how absurd. It's almost like capitalism won.
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B2P is litterally a different thing.
 
B2P allows you to enter and play free when you want after the first puchase. 
 
Here if you don't farm for creed, and you miss a month, you can't log in again.
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i already told you i'm not here to talk about free to play. 
 
i do not care what they do or what you, the 0,001% of the players think about it.
 
I started this topic for the reasons i already explained. 
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Or you could farm the first 2 weeks and buy three CREDDS!
Oh sorry, that made too much sense.
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still not B2P, that by fact is what you think this game is...
and honestly, i'm not the problem you are going offtopic in a topic that was not asking for replies
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So then why does your OP spend most of its time talking about F2P, and how much other players want F2P? And why did you write F2P in three tags?
 
I think you seriously need to review your posts here and think about what forum readers are going to get from them.
 
 
edit: I just reread your OP, the edit you did works better. If you remove the F2P tags it'll go a long way to making this a better discussion for you.
 
That said, when you write "people want F2P" and then "we need to change the payment model"... there isn't much room for interpretation. Try adding your own suggestion for a model that isn't F2P.
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This is: I saw what's happening there and they are just waiting for free to play, no new content, no new expansion, no new lore. they are there, outside the gate, waiting for free to play like zombies at the door.
and yes, they are sure this is going to happen because NcSoft already did it with tons of other games. 
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1) No new content?! I'm not sure what else people are expecting but there's been a TON of new content since launch, far more than I ever saw mid-expansion in game.
2) NO EXPANSION!? This game isn't even a year old and people are seriously complaining "out there" about no expansion?!
3) No new lore?! Again, there's so much lore in this game, if you think there's nothing new since launch, then you clearly haven't even been looking.
 
This game doesn't need F2P or B2P. It needs people to stop being unrealistic in their expectations for a game that is less than a year old. It needs people to actually try the game and realize that the rumors are greatly exaggerated.
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 but i wanted to try to post something like "hey, you are aiming to the wrong solution for new players" "you are just giving something  new for vets but no one will sub with new dungeons.."
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Just as a heads up, a lot of this "new content," you're seeing is just content that never got put in before release.  A lot of these zones were built and planned for monthly drops, it's just taken about 3-4x as long to put them out.
 
I know you guys don't really like f2p threads but there really is no denying it at this point.  A subscription model will sustain this game at a super slow rate, but the developers will move on to bigger and better things.  The patches will be as slow / buggy as they are now.  PvP won't see any new content for months.
 
B2P get's a flat sum in the door, and CREDD can still be used to supplement profits with platinum gain.  If we're really looking at this logically, Wildstar staying a sub model will not produce a game that we want to play.  A different sub model might not either, but there's a chance that it will, we'll have more people to play with, and it will give the developers incentive to do things like create content for people that aren't raiders, to give pvp a solid look, and to start mass producing mounts, collectibles, housing items, etc.
 
It's really not a matter of if, just a matter of when.	
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Save it Mae, there's no point reasoning with them.
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I like this whole attitude of,
"Everyone else that doesn't play this game is wrong."
 
Keep going with that one, it'll get you places.	
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I like this whole attitude of,
"Everyone else that doesn't play this game is wrong."
 
Keep going with that one, it'll get you places.
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			If this game ever goes f2p, then mark my words, the first things that'll go behind the paywall will be housing items, costumes, and dyes.	
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Sure the "Every players who actually play this game and like it how it is are just idiots" attitude is far better.
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If this game ever goes f2p, then mark my words, the first things that'll go behind the paywall will be housing items, costumes, and dyes.
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It would be a great shame if CS somehow figured out how to make a profit out of this game.
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 /sigh
 
I'm not sure why I came to browse the forums today. I've been keeping away quite happily. Come back... another of these threads.
 
f2p, whatever, b2p maybe in the future.
 
Who cares? We can't predict the future. Only people who are in control of that are NCsoft and carbine, and they are pumping out the next load of content so I can't see payment model changing yet.
 
soooo....	
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Yeah the whole point of paying for stuff is to get it quicker than you would for just playing the game.  If you don't want to farm up your things like you're doing now, just use the 15$ a month you were going to use to sub for the game anyhow.
 
The plus side, is that if you really want something else, you can pay a little bit more money and get it quicker.  This allows you to do things like spend time with your friends / kids instead of spend time farming platinum.
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 /sigh
 
I'm not sure why I came to browse the forums today. I've been keeping away quite happily. Come back... another of these threads.
 
f2p, whatever, b2p maybe in the future.
 
Who cares? We can't predict the future. Only people who are in control of that are NCsoft and carbine, and they are pumping out the next load of content so I can't see payment model changing yet.
 
soooo....
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			i'd rather have this game change payment model then shutdown, cause thats whats gonna happen if something doesn't get changed.	
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			The names of people dedicated to saying F2P in every thread never change, lol.I guess they figure even though it's somehow "inevitable" that they need to shout for it in every thread... HMM, I don't think something is adding up here.	
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The names of people dedicated to saying F2P in every thread never change, lol.
 
I guess they figure even though it's somehow "inevitable" that they need to shout for it in every thread... HMM, I don't think something is adding up here.
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Yup, nothing like using "Spend more quality time with loved ones!!!" to justify milking people   :D
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They who do not sub now will not sub/pay after transition, if god forbids it ever happened. And there will not be more content, there will be less content, because the whole team will be working on system conversion. None of the games that were converted were good in the first place, that is why they failed.
 
There is nothing wrong with being a smaller niche game, but be a good game with a good community. Rather then have all the f2p parasite MMO-hoppers hanging on with no real benefit to that, and certainly not the financial one.
 
All good things require effort, determination and conviction.
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Not every form of f2p / b2p / cash shop is a negative experience.
 
Here's an example on how to monetize without hurting the playerbase.  Game goes b2p.
 
Housing Limit of items placed per month is 100 a month.  An 8$ cash shop option removes that limit for the month.  Net gain of 7$ for the user.
A 2$ option increases that to another 100 items a month.  For those people that just need a little bit more items to finish their project.
A 4$ option doubles it to 400 items a month. 
 
Overall, this allows people to play the game for less than they would $15 a month, if their primary source of fun was housing.  
You could throw in exclusive weekly items that could be bought for plat, or credd for plat. That way someone could buy that item if they didn't want to spend plat farming time, or it was still available to a person who doesn't want to spend cash on it.
 
More people get to play housing without ever spending a dime on the game, but have big incentive to spend money on it. You could see just how much people liked the housing, have a monetary incentive for Carbine to improve housing, as well as make more things available for it.  You could even start releasing 1 new house or new item every 2 weeks, something that could possibly play music in your house, or a seasonal / holiday item, that could be bought with in-game platinum or plat by CREDD.
 
As time goes on, both people win.  People have more options, more things to spend or not spend on, and the developers have more money.  Not very many people would pick this game up and sub just for the housing alone for 15$, but they would spend 2-4-8$ a month on it.  Then you consider things like pve, crafting, dyes, costumes, pvp, etc.
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Sure the "Every players who actually play this game and like it how it is are just idiots" attitude is far better.
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So instead of just paying a flat rate every month and get full access, I would now have to go to the site/in-game store/AH/CX any time I want to do something?  IDK, to me my $15 a month is worth the convenience of having full access as opposed to having to stop what I'm doing to figure out what I should be buying to just go do stuff.  Sure, there may be months where I would be spending less, but then again there would probably be more months where I'm spending more.  Too stubborn and set in my ways I guess, I rather like where it is right now, pay model wise.
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As someone mentioned... The Cheapass army at the gates waiting to get in will not spend a dime if it went fto.
 
Instead carbine would try to milk us who currently pay 15 for more money
 
They would do this by creating stuff we payers would want. But who would create this? That's right those who are currently working on content / game improvements.
 
No no no. Ftp is the last desperate attempt to postpone the inevitable... The closing of a failed game.	
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Not every form of f2p / b2p / cash shop is a negative experience.
 
Here's an example on how to monetize without hurting the playerbase.  Game goes b2p.
 
Housing Limit of items placed per month is 100 a month.  An 8$ cash shop option removes that limit for the month.  Net gain of 7$ for the user.
A 2$ option increases that to another 100 items a month.  For those people that just need a little bit more items to finish their project.
A 4$ option doubles it to 400 items a month. 
 
Overall, this allows people to play the game for less than they would $15 a month, if their primary source of fun was housing.  
You could throw in exclusive weekly items that could be bought for plat, or credd for plat. That way someone could buy that item if they didn't want to spend plat farming time, or it was still available to a person who doesn't want to spend cash on it.
 
More people get to play housing without ever spending a dime on the game, but have big incentive to spend money on it. You could see just how much people liked the housing, have a monetary incentive for Carbine to improve housing, as well as make more things available for it.  You could even start releasing 1 new house or new item every 2 weeks, something that could possibly play music in your house, or a seasonal / holiday item, that could be bought with in-game platinum or plat by CREDD.
 
As time goes on, both people win.  People have more options, more things to spend or not spend on, and the developers have more money.  Not very many people would pick this game up and sub just for the housing alone for 15$, but they would spend 2-4-8$ a month on it.  Then you consider things like pve, crafting, dyes, costumes, pvp, etc.
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Housing Limit of items placed per month is 100 a month.  An 8$ cash shop option removes that limit for the month.  Net gain of 7$ for the user.
A 2$ option increases that to another 100 items a month.  For those people that just need a little bit more items to finish their project.
A 4$ option doubles it to 400 items a month. 
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Examples of successful f2p / b2p games that I have spent more than 15$ a month on in the past:
 
League of Legensd
 
In one month I spent 45$ on skins because I liked the skins that reminded me of Dynasty Warriors for Jarvan and Xin Zhao.
I spent over 15$ one month because I wanted to make a few more rune pages so I could climb the ladder.
 
Overall in the summer that I spent so much money on League of Legends, I spent way more than 15$ a month.  I still have LoL on my PC, and play it now and then.  Want to know why?  Because I invested a lot of money into it. Like, a lot of money.  I still have fun with it.  I don't play ranked as often, but it's still a good game, they're still really successful.  I still come back to it and play it now and then, and spend some money on skins from time to time.
 
Want to know why?  Because 15$ a month is the price of 2 combos from McDonalds. It aint shit, and it's not enough to sustain an MMO.  Hell, I'd pay Carbine 90$ a month if it actually got me some good content and all of that.  I spend close to that much at the movie theatre for popcorn tickets and drinks for me and my girlfriend, and I get way more hours of entertainment out of Wildstar.
 
Hell, even planetside 2.  I loved planetside 1, but planetside 2 is f2p.  That means I can come online, anytime I want, and if I wanted to buy a new gun, I could play for it, or just buy it. IF i wanted access to something I did more often, I could just spend 5$ on it.  5$ for a better gameplay experience for a week or so?  That's chump change.  I'm spending 30$ on Wildstar just to watch PvP get 0 updates.
 
I wouldn't even mind if Carbine featured Tony Rey swimming in cash in their next nexus report talking about all the money he has, if it meant getting better pvp content / pve content / anything for this game at a faster and better quality rate.
 
 
.... and that my friends is why B2P / Cash Shop is better than sub model.	
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The problem with that example is that is not how monetization,works. The point of cash shops is for consumers to buy more than what they usually would, if their plan is to keep consumers to pay $15 a month then why change the current model?  They need people to pay more, because the the half of players, just want the game for free, and will not put a single dollar into the game. 
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You guys remind me of my grandpa who won't at any other fast food but Hardees because Hardee's has been at that same location for a while, he knows the franchise owners / store manager, and he got some pretty sweet coupons in the mail.  There's nothing wrong with the hardees across town, the Burger King next door, or w/e.  He just doesn't like change and he likes Hardee's burgers and the people that come to visit.
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At the end of the day whether or not WS stays open is just based on how much money it makes, payment model be damned. 
 
I can't really see WS succeeding at pure F2P. They are mostly likely working on some form of cash shop right now, but I don't see them dropping the sub model. It would be interesting if they dropped / heavily reduced the purchase fee. If they release a full cash shop there's a pretty big chance they might reduce the monthly fee, but again I can't see full F2P working out. 
 
 
As far as the cash shop itself goes, I feel that they've almost painted themselves into a corner. We already have free server transfers, dye and costumes are already in-game, even the character chop-shop. The cash shop can't afford to take content we already have and paywall it, so it will have to be all new things. At best you can add paid versions of existing in-game obtainables, like cash for rare dye colors. I could easily see them selling mounts + flair, pets, costume sets, and xp/renown/ect boosts. There's a chance of them selling other, more serious stuff like houses + plots, runic modules/flux, and maybe even runes. 
 
Once you start selling convenience, it's a pretty small step toward BoP consumable upgrades, like runes or even amp/ability points. While I currently don't think they plan on doing so, they definitely have the option.	
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I have no problem people discussing different payment plans, but the only thing I see from people who want F2p  or B2p, is simply I don't want to pay for the sub, and that it will magically increase population.  That's it, and then they instantly compare it the the other games that have done it.
 
The major thing that I think people don't consider when comparing it to the other games is where the other games came from. Wildstar is a original IP, has no history, and no other income to point towards expect the game itself. Star wars, ya, never heard of that franchise before... Guild wars, how long have they been involved in MMO's, and wasn't there first one subscription model? Elder scrolls, they've only been doing games for how long, 15 or so years. Wow has been doing games for over 20 years. Point is, these games either have huge financial/name recognition advantage from the start, that Wildstar doesn't have.	
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Then give me my cane and dentures, because this sounds like my kind of experience.
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My grandpa doesn't use a cane or have dentures, but it's important to point out why he goes to that hardees.
 
He could go to the hardees across the street and get the same food.  He could go to the hardees with the same people, and still have the same good time.  He's okay with the manager / franchise owner because he's met them, and they didn't do him any wrong, but the other ones could be just as good people / even more enjoyable and he'd never know.
 
Hell, they could open up a new burger joint right next to his house that gives better burgers, has better management, has a better set of coupons / elderly discount, and all he'd have to do is convince his friends to come.
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I have no problem people discussing different payment plans, but the only thing I see from people who want F2p  or B2p, is simply I don't want to pay for the sub, and that it will magically increase population.  That's it, and then they instantly compare it the the other games that have done it.
 
The major thing that I think people don't consider when comparing it to the other games is where the other games came from. Wildstar is a original IP, has no history, and no other income to point towards expect the game itself. Star wars, ya, never heard of that franchise before... Guild wars, how long have they been involved in MMO's, and wasn't there first one subscription model? Elder scrolls, they've only been doing games for how long, 15 or so years. Wow has been doing games for over 20 years. Point is, these games either have huge financial/name recognition advantage from the start, that Wildstar doesn't have.
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*looks at title of thread*
 
*looks at the "I'm back" threads posted 2-3 times a day*
 
Huh.	
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But if he's happy with the management, happy with the food, happy with the people, and has no problem with the pricing, why do you insist on changing it all on him, because you think it will be better for him? If he WANTED those other things, they're available to him at other places, but he chooses to go to THAT Hardees, for THAT food, THOSE people, at THAT price. Who are you to tell him he's wrong?
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Maybe that was a bad analogy, because it singled out one person, a grandpa. 
 
The point being is that if the game is not making money, then it's time for a change. It's not about making ONE person happy, but gaining traction for new and current customers with sustainable revenue and retention span for the business, like Wildstar. I assume since you are on in the "old timer guild" you another old person from the old MMO generation era. Change is hard. But please, get your head out of the old school mentality that subscription is the ONLY solution for a great MMO. 
 
Your outdated gamer philosophy and ideologies do not translate into the greater good of the game nor does it provide much business value besides nostalgic reasons. Another selfish inclination from another selfish past generation player. 
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Examples of successful f2p / b2p games that I have spent more than 15$ a month on in the past:
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The point being is that if the game is not making money, then it's time for a change. It's not about making ONE person happy, but gaining traction for new and current customers with sustainable revenue and retention span for the business, like Wildstar. I assume since you are on in the "old timer guild" you another old person from the old MMO generation era. Change is hard. But please, get your head out of the old school mentality that subscription is the ONLY solution for a great MMO. 
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			Still failing to see the issue with your Grandpa, other than you want to change the Hardee's he loves to some other burger joint that he doesn't. And that seems wrong to me.	
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But if he's happy with the management, happy with the food, happy with the people, and has no problem with the pricing, why do you insist on changing it all on him, because you think it will be better for him? If he WANTED those other things, they're available to him at other places, but he chooses to go to THAT Hardees, for THAT food, THOSE people, at THAT price. Who are you to tell him he's wrong?
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Haven't played LoL but I think DOTA2's F2P is a great model. I'm not against F2P's possibilities, I just think a lot of crap is spewed in the name of it.
 
I will argue that MOBAs and FPS games are inherently better at providing an addicting experience, so I think F2P is more suitable for those types. When the gameplay sucks you in and there are no real content paywalls, you've got success. Wildstar is good because of many assets like housing, costumes, hard raids, world immersion/rp, cool art, pets, freeform combat. But I don't think it has enough oomph in any one place to actually draw and sustain a crowd that would also throw money out of pocket. And all those good things I mentioned are things that are more fun when they're earned than when you shell out money.
 
MMORPGs like WS need a carefully crafted challenge/reward system to sustain the fantasy.
 
So basically, given its reputation, comparably high PVE entry difficulty, alt unfriendliness, and competing with MOBAs for PVP, I'm not convinced WS would do well with F2P. I would try it out, but a lot would leave and the remaining cocktail of bad vibes once new complaints start cropping up (and they would, in higher numbers than before to match the new population)...  the risk of WS tanking would be high.
 
I think something will change eventually. Maybe they'll think up a compromise. Until then I'm convinced there's a reason Wildstar's population is this low, from a gameplay point of view, and letting a ton of players in to criticize wouldn't help that. If they fix all of the gameplay they can use trials or free box to draw people in. I'd be more confident with that plan.
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Still failing to see the issue with your Grandpa, other than you want to change the Hardee's he loves to some other burger joint that he doesn't. And that seems wrong to me.
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{| class="blockquote"
Still failing to see the issue with your Grandpa, other than you want to change the Hardee's he loves to some other burger joint that he doesn't. And that seems wrong to me.
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{| class="blockquote"
Guess our definition of success is really different. A successful game for a small handful of people do not mean this game is gaining traction or making a steady stream of revenue. Of course, I could be all wrong and Drop 4 proved all of naysayers wrong, but I will wait for Q1 2015 report to come out. Then we can begin the real talk. 
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The point is, if he loves the hell out of Hardees or not, that hardee's cant sustain off of just grandpa alone.  They definitely won't sustain without changes if that new burger joint comes up and is pretty good.
 
... and grandpa doesn't know if he's going to love that new burger joint yet.  He might really like it.  He might not.  He doesn't know because he hasn't tried it.
 
... and Grandpa might just be too stubborn to try it before Hardee's loses too much business, but grandpa sure isn't enough of a jerk to go around telling people they're idiots for trying to check out the new burger joint.
 
or maybe asking Hardee's to do some of that stuff that new burger joint does to compete
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{| class="blockquote"
The point is, if he loves the hell out of Hardees or not, that hardee's cant sustain off of just grandpa alone.  They definitely won't sustain without changes if that new burger joint comes up and is pretty good.
 
... and grandpa doesn't know if he's going to love that new burger joint yet.  He might really like it.  He might not.  He doesn't know because he hasn't tried it.
 
... and Grandpa might just be too stubborn to try it before Hardee's loses too much business, but grandpa sure isn't enough of a jerk to go around telling people they're idiots for trying to check out the new burger joint.
 
or maybe asking Hardee's to do some of that stuff that new burger joint does to compete
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't need to see the report. I just need to be in game. I see, EVERY day, people posting "Hey, I'm back for the first time in months." etc. Repeatedly. More than one person. I just need to look at my guild recruitment, and see the innundation of not only new players but old players returned. I just need to see names on my friends list pop up that I haven't seen in months.
 
Clearly, the game is recovering. Also as clearly, it's not recovering nearly fast enough for everyone. But the recovery is there. New subs are being made every day. New players are stepping foot into the game, and playing long enough to get to Illium and talk in zone chat. And this is the Dominion side. I can only imagine what kind of revival is going on over on the Exiles!
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{| class="blockquote"
do what you want, there's no new subs, and everyone's waiting for the game to die and change like... hem...
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I think we're all operating at the assumption that this game needs big changes.  If you're not, well, I think you're just willfully ignoring things.
 
... but then again I do have the perspective of a PvPer.
 
As far as the grandpa and Hardees analogy goes.  I'm never a dick to my grandpa.  The point of that analogy was that you can't always rely on things to stay the same and remain successful.  There will be new innovators out there.  There will be new things to try.  There will be people that do things wrong, and there will be things done phenomenally well.
 
Realistically, we all know what's going to happen.  Unless Wildstar changes its sub model, picks up about a million more people, and starts producing better quality content at a much quicker rate---  the next MMO that comes along offering quality PvP and raiding for the hardcore, as well as the casual, will scoop up almost every single sub.
 
This game lived and died on hype, and you can feel every single hype patch as they release it.  This game won't stand the test of time in it's current state, I'm sorry to say, and right now-- things don't look promising.	
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People can be spoiled and vindictive and rather used to getting free access to things. I rather prefer not seeing chunks of development time spent on cash shop items and have zero problem paying my sub to support a game that doesn't do that.
 
Ugh I'm getting so sick of these threads.
 
 
Maybe people's concerns should be directed at trying to revitalize a single server instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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Ugh I'm getting so sick of these threads.
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What about Rift and Tera both are original IP's both are till around because of F2p. 
 
F2p by all means isn't a fix all and in some cases if implemented wrong can be a complete disaster. For Wildstar my hope that it would add enough players to make this game stick around for a long time. But changing the payment model isn't the only thing this game needs. It needs a shot in the arm of new life and a change in tactics for content. Maybe that will happen maybe it won't but I think it needs to happen to keep this game around for a long time to come. 
 
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Yeah, those people who don't like that their F2P Troll Threads aren't a successful circle jerk are starting to get rowdy.
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"How dare you destroy our echo chamber of how 'awesome' this game is doing".
 
 
Fact is, this game needs an injection of some sort - not another drop; patches don't bring people back.
 
Some considerations:
 
1. FTP up to level 20-30.
2. An expansion; full fledged or a lighter 'digital' one that has content that appeals to the masses.
 
These things get people talking and interested.
 
 
Get mad at me if you want. This is my last post here as my 10 day trial is up and the game is uninsulated.
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The drunken stupor from imbibing the trendy cocktail of Autistic Pedantry, that you confuse as Clairvoyance, counts as "cold hard facts"? Cool. Let me be an overly negative moron, and call everyone else unrealistic, so I can learn what lottery numbers I should play.
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Clearly, you have never stepped onto the Warhound server have you?  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
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If I log into this game, I can choose 2 servers.  One of those servers is void of population.
 
On that other server, I see everyone that plays Wildstar in NA. And on that server, I draw these conclusions.  PvP is limited to practice battlegrounds at 50.  There are no other active forms of PvP.  PvE dungeons don't pop until 50.  There is hardly any crafted gear on the AH for people leveling, (and no, its not because it gets bought instantly.)  
 
The game is perceived, through these forums, and from (at least Dominions) side of the game, to be a dead and failing game.  I have never had the problem of having too many people on one server.  Never had the problem of having too many people for dungeons / PvP.  I've never had the problem of having too many people to fight the roster boss.  I've never heard anyone say, "gosh, I wish there was another server around here."  Wildstar might be the king of instancing, especially instancing the main cities, but I don't think that's the case.
 
... and if this game is perceived as dead, the game isn't marketed well, the only logical conclusion to be drawn is that it is in a bad place.  Because if a new player comes up, and perceives this game as dead, they won't choose to subscribe.
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{| class="blockquote"
"How dare you destroy our echo chamber of how 'awesome' this game is doing".
 
 
Fact is, this game needs an injection of some sort - not another drop; patches don't bring people back.
 
Some considerations:
 
1. FTP up to level 20-30.
2. An expansion; full fledged or a lighter 'digital' one that has content that appeals to the masses.
 
These things get people talking and interested.
 
 
Get mad at me if you want. This is my last post here as my 10 day trial is up and the game is uninsulated.
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Shhh. Don't try to reason with mrdharnell. He likes to respond with flowery sentences. 
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Not typing in a "lolderp" fashions means that someone is using flowery language? The bar for sounding marginally intelligent is that low these days, eh?
 
But then again, this from a cheerleader who co-signed on a person using "uninsulated" instead of "uninstalled".
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Uh oh. He mad.  :angry:
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I'm not denying the problems this game has. PVP is a problem. PVP servers are a massive blight. BUT, this isn't a type of problem that will have one magical fix that will suddenly flood the PVP servers. If they went F2P before fixing PVP, it just wouldn't work. They need to rebalance PVP, incentivize open world PVP, add open world PVP events and areas, and give people a REASON to be on PVP servers. This will take a while. And anyone who wants to magic-wand it with some jacked up F2P influx of players is just setting this game up for disaster. Even with F2P, PVP servers will be empty, because 1) No one is there, 2) There's no reason to be there. They need to fix that FIRST, before any talk of sub changes can happen.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm not denying the problems this game has. PVP is a problem. PVP servers are a massive blight. BUT, this isn't a type of problem that will have one magical fix that will suddenly flood the PVP servers. If they went F2P before fixing PVP, it just wouldn't work. They need to rebalance PVP, incentivize open world PVP, add open world PVP events and areas, and give people a REASON to be on PVP servers. This will take a while. And anyone who wants to magic-wand it with some jacked up F2P influx of players is just setting this game up for disaster. Even with F2P, PVP servers will be empty, because 1) No one is there, 2) There's no reason to be there. They need to fix that FIRST, before any talk of sub changes can happen.
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There is hardly any crafted gear on the AH for people leveling, (and no, its not because it gets bought instantly.)  
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			Although I do think the game should go F2P, I don't understand why people always think it's the sub model that's the problem. There were hundreds of thousands of players at launch who apparently were fine with subbing, but left for other reasons. For what it's worth, I think the problem was game difficulty, raids not being fun, and lack of nice fun things like fancy spell animations, pets, etc. Raiding in this game has not been a pleasant or positive experience for most. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
Although I do think the game should go F2P, I don't understand why people always think it's the sub model that's the problem. There were hundreds of thousands of players at launch who apparently were fine with subbing, but left for other reasons. For what it's worth, I think the problem was game difficulty, raids not being fun, and lack of nice fun things like fancy spell animations, pets, etc. Raiding in this game has not been a pleasant or positive experience for most. 
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Clearly the way to win them back is to spend hours on the forums bitching about how dead the game is.
 
That's some sound logic right there.
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{| class="blockquote"
If you have a problem with people giving their opinions maybe you shouldn't engage in these forum discussions? Also, I rarely post in GD. 
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If you have a problem with people giving their opinions maybe you shouldn't engage in these forum discussions? Also, I rarely post in GD. 
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My opinion about you, whom I have never met, is that you are a "Swahili Warrior", now anyone who hates/fear/wants to get away from "Swahili Warriors" now wants to do said things to you.
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I can never understand your posts.
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{| class="blockquote"
You don't try hard enough.
 
Old joke is old.
 
Sorry for being more of a sweet ass poet than a learned professor, maybe y'all need more refined artistic tastes.
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Yeah, I don't think either of those are the problem.   :P
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{| class="blockquote"
Whooooaaaaaa Keyboard Warrior. We bow down to thee.  :o
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{| class="blockquote"
And I don't think you're not a robot, sent to distract me from my lonesome existence as the only human in a world gone by, or a crazy person in the midst of a hyper realistic delusion.
 
Checkmate.
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Hey what do Kyoskai and a train have in common?
 
They're both off topic.	
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			and what was the topic again? I think it was free to play.	
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I didn't really bother to read the OP overall, but just from the title I can guess it's another sky is falling post. Also, I'm a little offended that I'm not a people.
 
And also F2P sucks, unless you like watching commercials on your games everytime you do anything with the game trying to get you to pump in money.  I don't watch TV shows live cause commercials suck and I like to pay for my game time so I don't have to see the crap in my games the same way.	
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I didn't really bother to read the OP overall, but just from the title I can guess it's another sky is falling post. Also, I'm a little offended that I'm not a people.
 
And also F2P sucks, unless you like watching commercials on your games everytime you do anything with the game trying to get you to pump in money.  I don't watch TV shows live cause commercials suck and I like to pay for my game time so I don't have to see the crap in my games the same way.
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Neither League of Legends nor Planetside 2 (the games that I actively play that are f2p) pump me with commercials.  They advertise their new features, but they also include a lot of stuff for the community as well.
 
Imagine a housing system where people could design their own housing items, put it on display, have users vote if they like it or not, and then sell it on the cash shop. Item creator gets 5% of all sales in platinum, and people get cool and awesome designed housing items.  That's sort of what planetside 2 does.
 
League of Legends is just a monster in its own right.
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{| class="blockquote"
Imagine a housing system where people could design their own housing items, put it on display, have users vote if they like it or not, and then sell it on the cash shop. Item creator gets 5% of all sales in platinum, and people get cool and awesome designed housing items.  That's sort of what planetside 2 does.
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't have problems with people giving opinions.  I have problems with the same folks latching on to every "What could help WS?" or "How is the game?" thread and parroting the same old BS about how the game is dying, or how F2P is the way to go, or hiding behind the Q4 2014 report, or saying that no one is ever on, or... you get the point here?  I'd love to see an actual opinion, not just begging from people who want to play the game for free.
 
 
 
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{| class="blockquote"
There have been lots of actual opinions. you choose to ignore them or view them as ignorant whining. I don't want to play the game for free, I don't want to see the game go F2P, I don't even like the F2P model and mostly avoid games that use it. However, I do think that switching to F2P is inevitable. that is an opinion. these are a forums. I am free to express that opinion as long as I follow the forum rules
 
No one is "hiding" behind the quarterly report, it gets mentioned because it is relevant, accurate data and demonstrates a trend. one which Carbine has been working hard to reverse. we will know how that has worked out within the the next few weeks with the release of the Q1 2015 report.
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We do not need the amount of negativity that comes from people crying for F2P or how dead the game is.  That does not further the game.  It does not attract new players.  It does not promote positivity.  That is the problem I have.
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{| class="blockquote"
I think this ultimately is what to take away from the post. If you want to help the game, it needs to be made appealing not just by Carbine but by us as well. At this point I am damn sure Carbine is aware of who is for and against what you're asking for, and what is said about it from here on will just be beating a dead horse.
 
What others are asking for is that it be left alone or to more relevant threads while we as players try to draw in others by speaking about the positive things in this game. All the people arguing for F2P have something in common with us on this side of the fence - we all have a passion for this game, and want to see it get better. And right now, I'd wager the better thing is not to continually fight each other where new players first come to ask questions or speak of the unfortunate issue of the PvP servers and where to go.
 
Perception can be just as important as the truth.
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{| class="blockquote"
Right now the best thing we can do is wait for Carbine to solidify the foundation of the game and make something EVERYONE wants to play, PvE or PvP alike.  When we're playing a finally-rock-solid game with no flaws or major points of contention (save the unavoidable complaints of an MMO), then we can talk about switching payment models.
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Well I mean I understood those parts.  It was the parts about Swahili warriors that lost me.
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I've said it dozens of times:  We do not need the amount of negativity that comes from people crying for F2P or how dead the game is.  That does not further the game.  It does not attract new players.  It does not promote positivity.  That is the problem I have.  
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I agree with this. I think you misunderstand me. I do not mean to be overly negative or one of those dreaded "F2P trolls." Currently, there are people who believe that the game is rebounding and as a result nothing needs to change and that the population will grow. There are others who do not believe the population is growing. These people see a downward trend and believe we need some kind of drastic change to save the game. I'm just one of these people. I think your opinion that the game is rebounding/growing is actually harmful as it suggests change is not needed. I don't understand why we can't just agree to disagree or why you and some of the other GD cronies always flame people who have opinions that differ from your own. 
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Even if this game doubles in population, it still isn't enough.  If this game doesn't come on the map as anything but a niche MMO, you can kiss the longevity goodbye.  This has the potential to be the most popular MMO in the market, it just hasn't reached that level.
 
Slowly growing a game like this only satisfies the people who have stuck around.  This game needs to explode back into popularity, back into the levels of hype it once was.  It will do those things, provided b2p/f2p happens, PvP gets huge fixes, another raid instance is released etc.
 
We have 1 server in NA guys. 1 server. That's it.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I agree with this. I think you misunderstand me. I do not mean to be overly negative or one of those dreaded "F2P trolls." Currently, there are people who believe that the game is rebounding and as a result nothing needs to change and that the population will grow. There are others who do not believe the population is growing. These people see a downward trend and believe we need some kind of drastic change to save the game. I'm just one of these people. I think your opinion that the game is rebounding/growing is actually harmful as it suggests change is not needed. I don't understand why we can't just agree to disagree or why you and some of the other GD cronies always flame people who have opinions that differ from your own. 
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{| class="blockquote"
I agree with this. I think you misunderstand me. I do not mean to be overly negative or one of those dreaded "F2P trolls." Currently, there are people who believe that the game is rebounding and as a result nothing needs to change and that the population will grow. There are others who do not believe the population is growing. These people see a downward trend and believe we need some kind of drastic change to save the game. I'm just one of these people. I think your opinion that the game is rebounding/growing is actually harmful as it suggests change is not needed. I don't understand why we can't just agree to disagree or why you and some of the other GD cronies always flame people who have opinions that differ from your own. 
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{| class="blockquote"
That's one HUGE logical leap you took there.
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