117121-1027-morning-coffee-the-slacker-edition

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So yeah, let's start with my breakfast!
 
 
I'm tired of hard work.
 
I'm on a project at work that comprised something like 50 permits over its first two phases and will take something like 15 years to complete at this pace.  I actually just got a raise last week for doing so well!  The weekend has become similarly busy, with me having to go over to help save my sister's birthday party after unforeseen circumstances (explained earlier).  Yesterday became a tech support nightmare (as also explained in an earlier coffee).
 
Wildstar was similarly busy.  I ended up helping a lot of lowbies Friday, then ran RP on Friday and Saturday to get the word out.  I recruited (unsuccessfully this weekend) and spent a lot of time in correspondance.
 
So I took Sunday night off.
 
I leveled Vincent Hawthorne, my new engineer, a bit last night and then I spent the last hour hopping on Trajan Spenser, my old Dommie level 50 SS/Explorer.  It was like seeing an old friend; Spellslinger is so damn fun and Trajan's such a great character.  Got some light RP going in the open world for a few minutes, added a new friend to my rolodex there I might not ever see again (I only get to play Domside once in a blue moon), ran the Phagelab quests and Biomech core quests, did some path missions, and did a five man world quest boss.  It was a good night.
 
Today, back to the grindstone.  The Shadowcaster is open as it is for now, and I need to get back to recruiting.  Metal Monday today will go into Australian hard rock.  I'm trying to raise RP awareness for the guild and figuring out what we're doing Thursday for weekly content night.
 
Still, nice to be lazy for once and to take a break, however short.	
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Dog was throwing up all weekend. Laying around lethargic, not wanting to play. Sunday was the worse, he didn't eat. I sent a dire e-mail to the vet and took him in first thing this morning. They were prepared for a sick animal. What they got was a completely healthy goofball. I had the look of utmost chagrin as he hammed it up for the vets, begging for treats, barking at oxygen, smelling everything and even licking the assistant, which he never does.
 
*sigh* Okay.
 
Anyway, working on recruting for the Wildseeds. If anyone has an Aurin or an Aurin Alt who likes being involved in and creating Aurin centric trouble. Please give me a message.	
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Morning everyone.
 
Hard work sucks.  It's 6:42 am here right now.  In 18 minutes I have a conference call with a bunch of people in Germany.  HOPEFULLY all the work our team in the US did over the weekend fixes their problem so that I can start work at a better time for the rest of the week.  Sigh.
 
In Wildstar news, on Saturday the Daggers did something like 7 dungeon runs.  At one point, we had three dungeon groups running simultaneously.  We hadn't really started out intending to do so many, but everyone was having so much fun, and we just kept going :)
 
To make up for it, yesterday we did a veteran Stormtalon run and built up a nice repair bill.  But it was progress - we're pretty close to finally being able to beat ol' Stormy now.  Essentially we know what to do and it's all just practice and muscle memory at this point.  We'll get there.
 
Had a guild officer meeting yesterday about scheduling and stuff.  We're trying to work out a way to do things at times that work better for everyone which is hard because well, time zones and play schedules.  We've got EST folks who have to be up at like 5 am for their jobs and then we've got PST folks like me who don't get home until 7 pm their time.  We've got people who work weekends and people who don't.  Trying to find a time when we can do things so that everyone gets a chance to attend is hard.  We think we can probably do it but it's only because we have a good officer team that we can rely on.
 
Anyway today is a RL day so no Wildstar for me tonight.  I start moving into my new house this week so I may be scarce for a week or two in game altogether :)	
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Morning everyone.
 
Hard work sucks.  It's 6:42 am here right now.  In 18 minutes I have a conference call with a bunch of people in Germany.  HOPEFULLY all the work our team in the US did over the weekend fixes their problem so that I can start work at a better time for the rest of the week.  Sigh.
 
In Wildstar news, on Saturday the Daggers did something like 7 dungeon runs.  At one point, we had three dungeon groups running simultaneously.  We hadn't really started out intending to do so many, but everyone was having so much fun, and we just kept going :)
 
To make up for it, yesterday we did a veteran Stormtalon run and built up a nice repair bill.  But it was progress - we're pretty close to finally being able to beat ol' Stormy now.  Essentially we know what to do and it's all just practice and muscle memory at this point.  We'll get there.
 
Had a guild officer meeting yesterday about scheduling and stuff.  We're trying to work out a way to do things at times that work better for everyone which is hard because well, time zones and play schedules.  We've got EST folks who have to be up at like 5 am for their jobs and then we've got PST folks like me who don't get home until 7 pm their time.  We've got people who work weekends and people who don't.  Trying to find a time when we can do things so that everyone gets a chance to attend is hard.  We think we can probably do it but it's only because we have a good officer team that we can rely on.
 
Anyway today is a RL day so no Wildstar for me tonight.  I start moving into my new house this week so I may be scarce for a week or two in game altogether :)
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Sorry to hear about your dog troubles, Rocio :P  (And yes I had to edit this, because i thought you were sick.  That's what I get for being half awake and skimming through posts x_x)
 
I spent most of the weekend testing a Magic: the Gathering deck for the current competitive season between housing pre-planning for Drop 3 and binge watching Soul Eater on Netflix.  Rather relaxed weekend, all things considered.  Wishing the 80 degree weather would say goodbye down here in Texas already - i miss my Autumn season! (I moved down here from Omaha, NE and grew up in west Missouri - you know, where there's actual seasons).
 
Wildstar:  After a long hiatus from dailies, decided to finish off my Northern Wastes and Crimson Badlands reps, and was able to afford another Ability Tier Point Unlock last week.  After I inevitably grind out my PvP one (blech), only two remain.  Need to read up on what is even best to do with full ability tier points as a Stalker >_>  T8 Concussive Kicks looks pretty amazing...
 
Got to run a few vet adventures and a vet STL with my new guildies and had a pretty good time.  Tore down Malzek Rainfury's plot to get ready for a race track akin to Katia Magana's (The Katia Grand Prix, if you'd heard of it before she took a break for a bit).  Have an itch to start raiding, but torn between whether I want to stay with a semi-progression guild or move into a more semi-hardcore one.  I'm a very patient guy, but also have a competitive edge.  You sort of live in a duality when you want to compete, but at the same time want to enjoy everyone you raid with.  It's not to say you can't have both, but somehow even in WoW it always comes down to choosing whether to be patient and stay with a guild not progressing as fast as you'd like but getting to know people; or, feeling good about being ahead of the curve.  Guild raid stability is an issue.  I ask myself if further progressed guilds mean that they've got a solid team and that stability is less of an issue for them.  Long term raid health is a consideration.  Then I have that my WoW guild will be looking to raid in Warlords of Draenor, and I still feel ehhhhh about raiding in WoW.  I want to dive into WildStar full time, but doubts constantly nag at the bag of my head about investing myself in the game too much out of fear of it sinking.  So I'm like, wanting to keep my foot in the door and caught up in WoW just incase so if the worst case scenario happens I'm not up the creek without a paddle when I end up going back there.  But I love WildStar.  Argh.  I'm not one of the doomsayers who thinks the game is going to die by any means.  I'm just afraid of investing myself so heavily and it backfiring.  Even now with the 40-man raid sizes the roster boss is the biggest obstacle.  Don't want to sit around and wait to have to refill if I get in a guild that manages to get into Datascape.  
 
Can we have Drop 3 so I can just continue housing and not even think about any of this, already? :V	
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Sorry to hear you're sick, Rocio - hope it gets better soon.
 
I spent most of the weekend testing a Magic: the Gathering deck for the current competitive season between housing pre-planning for Drop 3 and binge watching Soul Eater on Netflix.  Rather relaxed weekend, all things considered.  Wishing the 80 degree weather would say goodbye down here in Texas already - i miss my Autumn season! (I moved down here from Omaha, NE and grew up in west Missouri - you know, where there's actual seasons).
 
Wildstar:  After a long hiatus from dailies, decided to finish off my Northern Wastes and Crimson Badlands reps, and was able to afford another Ability Tier Point Unlock last week.  After I inevitably grind out my PvP one (blech), only two remain.  Need to read up on what is even best to do with full ability tier points as a Stalker >_>  T8 Concussive Kicks looks pretty amazing...
 
Got to run a few vet adventures and a vet STL with my new guildies and had a pretty good time.  Tore down Malzek Rainfury's plot to get ready for a race track akin to Katia Magana's (The Katia Grand Prix, if you'd heard of it before she took a break for a bit).  Have an itch to start raiding, but torn between whether I want to stay with a semi-progression guild or move into a more semi-hardcore one.  I'm a very patient guy, but also have a competitive edge.  You sort of live in a duality when you want to compete, but at the same time want to enjoy everyone you raid with.  It's not to say you can't have both, but somehow even in WoW it always comes down to choosing whether to be patient and stay with a guild not progressing as fast as you'd like but getting to know people; or, feeling good about being ahead of the curve.  Guild raid stability is an issue.  I ask myself if further progressed guilds mean that they've got a solid team and that stability is less of an issue for them.  Long term raid health is a consideration.  Then I have that my WoW guild will be looking to raid in Warlords of Draenor, and I still feel ehhhhh about raiding in WoW.  I want to dive into WildStar full time, but doubts constantly nag at the bag of my head about investing myself in the game too much out of fear of it sinking.  So I'm like, wanting to keep my foot in the door and caught up in WoW just incase so if the worst case scenario happens I'm not up the creek without a paddle when I end up going back there.  But I love WildStar.  Argh.  I'm not one of the doomsayers who thinks the game is going to die by any means.  I'm just afraid of investing myself so heavily and it backfiring.  Even now with the 40-man raid sizes the roster boss is the biggest obstacle.  Don't want to sit around and wait to have to refill if I get in a guild that manages to get into Datascape.  
 
Can we have Drop 3 so I can just continue housing and not even think about any of this, already? :V
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Breakfast: OJ & Cereal at home, banana and coffee at work.
 
Wildstar: Wherein I try to talk myself down off the ledge.
 
You'd think with all that went right this weekend I wouldn't be in such a funk.  Scored another CREDD and have enough plat to pick up another if the prices remain stable.  The power core market seems to have worked through the oversupply (or the market manipulator got tired).  Got my survivalist into the thicket circle (still need a dom-side mining circle).  Hit 30 with Kitty and she's off to Farside.  Vilton Vance's "Welcome to Megaservers" event was amazeballs unfortunately I left early for other out of game social obligations (I should have stayed).
 
Part of the conflict is split loyalties.  I need to figure out how to balance things better.	
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Lets see, got up 3am to be at work for 4am (yes you read that right) and I work a ridiculous 21 on 7 off shift so I only get 12 weekends a year.
 
Got up, reported at 4am bleary eyed after first coffee, to find out I was issued someone elses work becuase they didn't show up so I had to stay for 2 extra hours. Eyes were still burning at 5am. Had to deal with the usual idiots at work.
 
I work splift shift so only half my day is over lol	
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Morning everyone...
 
I played smash brothers all weekend really to get my mind off a few things. Handed out all the prizes(except 1, I still need to get in touch with) for the Lifestyles of Nexus housing contest. 
 
Wildstar wise rather sad time as the last of my RP buddies is departing from Wildstar(work related stuff sadly). We knew it would happen someday so we acted out our last hunt together which ended in tragedy for the duo as Typrop buried her companion in the hills of Whitevale...Where she goes from here on her journey on Nexus goes from there waits to be seen...
 
I got to run a couple of people through normal STL this weekend and did a few vet adventures as well.
 
Oh oh oh I will say that I'm really enoying Styx:master of shadows. I loved the "of orcs and men" so when I saw styx I went "omg yay!". I love goblins, I love stealth games so perfect combo for me. I really recommend it if you enjoy stealth games.	
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You sort of live in a duality when you want to compete, but at the same time want to enjoy everyone you raid with.  It's not to say you can't have both, but somehow even in WoW it always comes down to choosing whether to be patient and stay with a guild not progressing as fast as you'd like but getting to know people; or, feeling good about being ahead of the curve.  
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Good morning, everyone!
 
I had a really fun weekend. Friday was a wash as far as WS goes, as usual, but Saturday I got to play for a good part of the afternoon and evening. The Skullkickers roster was surprisingly empty for a Saturday, so I even got time to jump onto my Exile alts for a little while! Late Saturday evening, Grimsaw finally finished Celestion (he'd been sitting at 96% for a few weeks).
 
It was good to log into my Exiles - Chestnut was mean and threatened to throw them out in the cold. ;)
 
Sunday was busy. I had a breast cancer charity dinner to attend Sunday evening, which was fantastic (drool-worthy food at my favorite Italian restaurant AND a good cause - no complaints here ^_^), and then I got to log in and dink around on Scaarinen for a little while. He's still not quite maxed on NW rep (he's gotten very lazy with dailies since maxing CB rep), but he's gradually getting closer.
 
I think next on the agenda is getting my Engineer 100% in Ellevar - 3 Explorer missions standing in his way, so I'll have to coerce someone to tag along for a little while. I just hate moving to the next zone without getting 100% in the current one. Completionism at its worst. :rolleyes:
 
I also have to admit that Strife has been cutting into my Wildstar time a bit. I've never gotten hooked on a MOBA before, but wow, this one's addictive.
 
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Chua been busy all day :/
Chua playing Werewolf Pen and Paper tonight and is having 5 Humans visit.
Cause Humans like Pizza, Chua busy all day making Pizza.
 
Chua only been ingame shortly.
Did crafting daily, and Chua got pleasant surprise:
 
 
Unfortunately is only thing Chua can do today.
Chua actually happy with guild, getting new recruits for science on steady basis. Roster being defeated one step at time :D
Chua hope to be able to play WildStar again properly on Thursday.	
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			Wow!  5 fragments!  Congratz Olivar :)	
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Did crafting daily, and Chua got pleasant surprise:
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I'm right there with you man, almost throughout.  Even to the seasons (I grew up in Pennsylvania and Ohio, moved to Houston for four years, then moved back to Columbus because I missed the snow).
 
I'm VERY wary of adding another project to my schedule, but if you're taking Katia's place as racing afficianado, I have a housing plot to build a circuit on that you can host on.  That way you'd have two potential racetracks.  Herrick RedCoyote has a housing plot called Blood Tree Mesa (which already sounds like an Extreme G or F-Zero track name).  Let me know.  I do love housing, so it would be a labor of love if you wanted it done.
 
The biggest problem?  I wouldn't have any problem whatsoever doing any of this if I knew the game wasn't going F2P.  However, it's not looking good and even I'm starting to believe the doomsayers.  I'm on record saying I will flat-out quit if this game goes F2P (and I mean it); I'm not going to go from satisfied customer to marketing target.  That means all of this, the guild, the housing plots, the getting-people-to-try-and-buy this game, it's all for naught, and I'll end up back in EVE again.
 
The sad thing is, I still think this would be a multi-million subscriber game if NCSoft gives the team the time and resources to carve out their niche and fill out the content.  With the layoffs and changes, though, it's looking like NCSoft isn't going to give them that chance.  Which is sad, because everything about this game is great and has amazing potential.  It's made sure I'm not going back to WoW, it's now EVE or bust.  I just won't stick around to become a marketing target beyond my 15 dollars a month for it on general principle, and that would be a sad day if NCSoft made that decision.
 
I just wish we could stabilize, grow, and I could focus on the things in front of me instead of wondering if this is even all worth it.
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HAX! :D
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Good morning, coffee people! How's the science?Everyone seems to lead interesting lives with interesting things happening. Sure, working in the ER means helping people but nothing -interesting- ever happens. Lots of stupid though. Oh and thrilling things but never -interesting- things. Croissant + Chocolate Milk = Breakfast sent from the heavens. To everyone dealing with health issues, canine or otherwise, I hope you get better soon! As someone who deals with sickness, diseases, wounds and other unpleasant bodily malfunctions, I know it sucks but it (usually) gets better! Hang tight :)
 
Mondo Zax. Because I am the Pope of the Zaxian Church.
 
 
In WildStar news, I hit Beloved with Northern Wastes earlier this morning, finally! Crimson Badlands will follow tomorrow morning so I will be done before Star-Comm Basin is released. However, that means I will have to find an alternative way to make currency or just continue to do dailies. Also, I will be wiping Erayo's housing plot clean and take it into an entirely different direction. Building from scratch is terribly long and I simply do not have the time to do it. I am also dying to get into guild runs but I always worry about signing up. The woes of always being "on-call" means planning ahead often is a terrible idea. Nevertheless, in spite of all the F2P doom-and-gloom-and-vileplume-and-everything-will-burn talks, morale is better than yesterday and hopefully will remain steady.
 
More to do! More to do! Also, more to do!	
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They really are.  One of these days I'm going to fix the problem by getting filthy rich and building a gamer haven compound in Montana or something.  We'll have great internet connectivity and plenty of IT staff.  Our community center will host LAN parties every night.  It'll be great.  Then we'll probably get raided by the ATF :P
 
Time will tell but I think you worry too much :)
 
I keep tabs on EVE but until things change - a lot - I don't think I could go back.  After 11 years of EVE, I'm just at the point where nothing in the game excites me at all anymore.  It might be different if my little alliance there could go and claim sovereignty in a system or two and have a fighting chance of keeping it without being part of a huge bloc, but we don't.  At this point I kinda feel like CCP should just put EVE on maintenance mode and go off and develop EVE 2.0 using everything they've learned, then give everyone a fresh start and a level playing field again.
 
That said, if things go very poorly and you do wind up back in EVE, let me know.  I don't think that will happen, but I like to have contingency plans :)
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Finished Northern Waste on my 'slinger (knocked out Crimson last week). Gained access to more healslinger gear poisoned with Brutality, so yay? Once drop 3 hits and they nerf the heck out of AP I'll probably buy the pants for my DPS spec. No reason to do it now - the Skurgeweaves I'me weaing are better and the number of slots is still stupi- I mean, variable.
 
I am really wishing there was something I could do to advance Blighthaven and R-12 that wasn't on a clock or demanded grouping up. Wouldn't have to be a lot - just 200-300 points a day would be fine.
 
Been probing the drop 3 build on the PTR. Seems like there's still a bunch of patch notes missing to cover all the "Oh that's fixed in the next drop" posts we've gotten form Devs over the last 2 months, but I haven't run it down item-by-item. I feel bad for anyone who doesn't knock out the Defile in the first few weeks after it drops. Way too much emphasis on high-pop-or-bust game design.
 
Still can't post pictures. Lame.	
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I am also dying to get into guild runs but I always worry about signing up. The woes of always being "on-call" means planning ahead often is a terrible idea. 
 
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IRL, beautiful weekend, sunny with highs in the 80's.
 
In W*, my Esper got 5 Eldan fragments on one of her daily's also. Of course, she can't afford all the purple Signs she needs, but i guess she can never have too many data fragments. 
 
Yesterday had an amusing encounter when some stranger complimented my Stalker on her toes. Go figure...	
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God only knows, EVE isn't perfect, but it's the only game Wildstar hasn't ruined for me.  Also, to be fair, if EVE put together a PVE server that jacked up the danger of open space and made actually flying feel sandbox dangerous, I think they'd have a lot more than 500k subscribers.  Then again, I made a LONG suggestion post a while back to them, I don't think they're going to go that way.  It's a shame; if they did, I'd probably be there instead of here.  EVE's UI and world build would be perfect for a PVE sandbox game; you could suddenly find yourself being chased by pirates they could spawn in from nowhere and have to make some snap decisions.  Sansha incursions essentially all over, everywhere, jacked up on steroids.  That'd be glorious.
 
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I'm with you.  For some reason CCP is *really* hung up on hardcore PvP - which, unfortunately outside of nullsec where there's a territory control game, equates to griefing.  Most EVE players view PvE as what they do to buy ships that they can go blow up in PvP.  So you have a negative pressure on the game's population from that, and another negative pressure on the game's population due to the barrier to entry for actual meaningful PvP.
 
I almost never PvP in any game, except the ones that give me a real reason to want to go out and fight the other guys.  I love territorial control stuff, fighting over resources, etc.  Everything else is just.... meh.  But I also don't think that the entire playerbase should be subjected to poor player behavior just because you want to provide a rich PvP experience for players who enjoy that.
 
It's a lesson Wildstar can learn from.  There's a danger in giving your players what they're asking for without thinking about the consequences.  As players, we often don't know what's best for us.  We know what we don't like, and we can come up with ideas to fix it, but very rarely will we actually think through what all the ripple effects of a proposed change will be.  That's the kind of thing that developers *have* to do whenever they're evaluating feedback from players.  They need to ask the question:  "beyond the obvious, how will this change the game?"  If they're not doing that then it can lead into stagnation (like EVE) or decline.
 
To be clear, it's not just a PvP problem either and I'm not picking on CCP here - nearly every major MMO has made the mistake of catering too much to their players at one point or another, and ended up making players even less happy with the game because of unintended consequences.  If I were an MMO producer, I would be super-cautious about major systems and mechanics changes just for that reason.
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Probably the most painful part of being in a casual raiding guild in the past has been getting to that point where I finally head off into the horizon, knowing that many people depend on me but that I can't necessarily depend on them in the way that I need to.  Erf.  It's really tough.  *stares at my Ohmna quest and gear that hasn't had an upgrade in several months due to not raiding* *stares the other way at people that basically invite me to every run due to my performance consistency*
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If Wildstar needs to take a lesson from EVE, it's to play to their strengths.  They DO have a fast, brutal, quick game.  They need to stick with that, whether it's PVE, PVP, or otherwise.  The biggest problem with the elements people don't like about Wildstar at large is that they just don't FIT.  The gearing system for Wildstar belongs in a slower, more technical F2P game, not the whirlwind of death and destruction that Wildstar is.  In Wildstar, more than any other game I've seen, they need their new gearing system.  Keep it simple and don't make people feel like they rely on their gear; it's a reward for completions, not an EVE-online style stat-weight comparison game that requires intense preparation.
 
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I'm weird. I don't really enjoy grouping for quests. For instances, I'm definitely all for groups, but grouping for quests can be tedious. I'll do it if someone wants help, but otherwise I find that I prefer solo roaming. I think part of it is that group credit for quest mobs is still inconsistent, and tracking everyone's quests while in a group is tedious by itself.
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I disagree with you here.  I think in order to remain healthy longterm and avoid mudflation as new content is added, Wildstar actually needs to rebalance the stats they have currently and introduce more critical choice in gearing decisions to players.  Streamlining and simplifying player statistics further will not only "dumb down" the game quite a bit, but worse, it will put us in a situation where 90% of all equipment in the game becomes effectively worthless - which, in turn, renders all the content that creates that equipment worthless.
 
That will happen regardless of the business model the game uses.  It's true that a lot of bad (read: rip-off) F2P models take advantage of itemization to force players to purchase item upgrades - that essentially turns them into P2W games.  But there are plenty of F2P games on the market right now that don't do that, and still have detailed itemization models and multiple character statistics that players have to track.
 
I think the watchwords when it comes to itemization should be:
- Diversity
- Meaningful choices
- Simple to understand, but difficult to master.
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Hence AP and SP normalization, token gear, et al being installed at their behest.  People don't want gear choices, they want BiS, they want to know what it is, they want to know where to get it, and they want less randomness in how they get it.
 
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I certainly don't want BiS. I think the BiS concept is boring. At very least, there should be a couple different options as BiS for each class. But, that would require:
 
I want stats that can be mixed and matched for varied build- and theorycraft that leads to a variety of viable builds for each class. This is something that I was extremely spoiled with in GW, and to a much lesser extent in GW2.
 
Even just on a basic level, I would love the ability to customize the functions of the abilities we use (Diablo 3's rune system comes to mind). For example, I'd love if Medics could take the idea behind Devastator Probes and create an entire DPS ability set based around DoTs, perhaps by modifying skill effects with AMPs or maybe even branching ability tiers. We already have some AMPs that are oriented in this direction (Energy Pulse and Chemical Burn). Having some of these AMPs limited to PvP-only is really unnecessary.
 
That would go way beyond class vs class balancing, though. That would mean internal rebalancing for each class.
 
EDIT: None of this would necessarily require new types of stats, just different uses for current stats.	
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If this is what we think people want, and the Wildstar devs cave and give it to them, then I can pretty much guarantee that I and a fair number of my guildmates won't be playing Wildstar in six months, regardless of anything else that happens.
 
The complaints against the RNG are about stat combinations that don't make sense.  What good is a piece of heavy armor with Focus recovery on it?  Why would you want a piece of light armor with Insight and Brutality?  From my reading, THAT is what people are asking to have fixed.
 
AP normalization is specific to weapons.  It doesn't make sense that a warrior sword should top out around 600 AP at level 50 , yet we have stalker claws and spellslinger pistols that are clocking in at 1000 AP.  Warriors (and Engineers) can compensate for that with armor gearing choices, but that only compounds the problem.  If I'm having to stack finesse on every armor piece in order to achieve the same AP level as a spellslinger, given that AP is so overpowered compared to other stats, then it leads to less diversity in gear progression for me as an engineer.
 
The same kind of goes for SP, but SP for tanks is offset by mitigation (determined pretty much solely by armor value and deflect rating) so it is a tricker balance to maintain.
 
You're arguing that people don't want to think about stuff like this, but I believe that's not the case.  I think people want to be presented with choices that make sense.  That doesn't mean they want the choice taken away from them.
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I certainly don't want BiS. I think the BiS concept is boring. At very least, there should be a couple different options as BiS for each class. But, that would require:
 
I want stats that can be mixed and matched for varied build- and theorycraft that leads to a variety of viable builds for each class. This is something that I was extremely spoiled with in GW, and to a much lesser extent in GW2.
 
Even just on a basic level, I would love the ability to customize the functions of the abilities we use (Diablo 3's rune system comes to mind). For example, I'd love if Medics could take the idea behind Devastator Probes and create an entire DPS ability set based around DoTs, perhaps by modifying skill effects with AMPs or maybe even branching ability tiers. We already have some AMPs that are oriented in this direction (Energy Pulse and Chemical Burn).
 
That would go way beyond class vs class balancing, though. That would mean internal rebalancing for each class.
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@Vick and Kezlam - It sucks to see them go, but we had a lot of fun, I'll miss them a lot. For now though, I just ahv eto figure out what to do with Typrops personal story, I have a few ideas how to continue or just retcon going forward. I don't think I'll have that close of a bond RP wise (not to say it's not possible, but it was a special storyline for me). I wish them well though and who knows, they may return when work lightens up
 
@ Vic and Nephele - I'd have to say that honestly the issue stems from what Nephele points out with weird stats on items that make you go "wtf who would ever use this?". I see the SP/AP as a step toward making other stats more valid as the normalized stats give you a higher return(in particular warriors for example) than how they are now. It always felt seriously strange to me that you'll have a healer with almost 3k support power and as a warrior tank I can barely break 1500 without sacrificing a great deal of mitigation. However warrior tanks are a special situation in themselves where we have quite a bit working against us ranging from out stance to how we're supposed to be a shield tank, but can't really shield tank without a medic specced to heal shields and our amps requiring strange things not exactly fitting for us.
 
I don't mind BiS gear, but the "BiS" seems all over the place and isn't clear due to a result of rune crafting mixed with poor itemization, and lack of clear direction. I feel like it all contributes to crafted armor for example being king of all, because it's the easiest way to mitigate RNG and poor stats(while at the same time exceeding the intended tier). The new rune crafting system will help mitigate the RNG a smidgen, but it's gonna be still a hassle to deal with depending on the market for materials needed to get runes added and rerolled.
 
Part of me wants to say "remove hit chance" and let the numbers roll...but i know its not that simple and you've got stat like Grit that is just "ugh...."	
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I don't blame them for that, and I think it's probably the right way for them to go.  God only knows it wouldn't really help their cause to have five competing pieces of BiS gear that have slightly different stat weights that people then have to run by raiding guilds.  Even if you like the survivability for your custom gear, history and feedback prove that raid leaders have a very definitive idea on what constitutes DPS and Support gear.  There's just not enough to the game's background elements to have five different styles of gearing to stay out of the red teles.  Fragmentation in roles would lead to people, at best, having to carry several sets of optimized gear for different encounters, and I don't really see Wildstar benefiting from that.
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Varied viable builds does not necessarily equal complicated gear, nor should it.
 
If you look at GW's skill and gear systems, the gear was the simplest gear system I've ever seen. If you knew where to go and where to buy a run, you could have BiS gear by the time your character was level 5 (cap was 20). The game absolutely destroyed the concept of BiS gear.
 
The skill system was what made the game. At the risk of being cliche, it really was "easy to learn, difficult to master." And, honestly, whoever ANet had on staff at the time was brilliant at balancing it.	
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Speaking as a raid leader, I think you are severely over-generalizing here.  I also think that you aren't giving players in general enough credit.  A good raid leader (or more appropriately, strat leader - because the two roles aren't always the same) is going to take every variable into account when they come up with a strategy.
 
More importantly though, a good raid leader is going to trust that their raiders know what they're doing - raid leaders who micromanage their teams, or focus on the gear people are wearing instead of what those people are doing with the gear, are doomed to frustration and failure.  A good raid team needs good players who can work together but still think for themselves and be effective, not mindless drones that do everything exactly the way they are told or read about on the forums.  The bottom line is that if someone is effective that's all that matters for the raid.  If they're not effective, then often people involved will try to help by offering suggestions about abilities to use or gear to look at.
 
Granted, there are plenty of idiots out there who think they can lead a raid force too.  But those sorts of teams very rarely actually achieve the goals they set for themselves.  They get too bogged down in trying to play the numbers game, and forget that player skill is just as important.
 
I'll give you a practical example:  In a recent dungeon run, we had two stalkers with us.  One of them (Stalker A) had multiple pieces of so-called "BiS" gear and had done tons of forum research on the best abilities to use, etc.  The other (Stalker B ) had a respectable (but not great) set of gear that he'd selected himself, and had mostly learned through trial and error what worked best for him - in some cases, directly contradicting what you might read on the forums.  The one who topped the DPS meter for the group?  Stalker B.  By over 600 damage/second.
 
As a raid leader, I know who I'd rather have on my team.
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Varied viable builds does not necessarily equal complicated gear, nor should it.
 
If you look at GW's skill and gear systems, the gear was the simplest gear system I've ever seen. If you knew where to go and where to buy a run, you could have BiS gear by the time your character was level 5 (cap was 20). The game absolutely destroyed the concept of BiS gear.
 
The skill system was what made the game. At the risk of being cliche, it really was "easy to learn, difficult to master." And, honestly, whoever ANet had on staff at the time was brilliant at balancing it.
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No, I think you're taking something I'm saying a bit personally when I'm not talking about you, specifically.  We all say we want more interesting gearing in theory.  I'm talking about the game in general, cost v benefits, and player feedback to this point.  Games in Wildstar's particular subgenre don't tend to benefit from complex stat weighting.  In fact, the larger the population, the less they benefit from it.  Blizz learned this from their Death Knight experiment, where all Death Knight specs could tank and DPS with differentiated stats.
 
The result was that Death Knights ended up all cloistering into the blood tanking build because, after six months or so of raid experience, they knew what to do.
 
Flash forward to Wildstar.  You're talking about people doing experimentation on their own to do class building, and that's in Wildstar, which you're already saying doesn't have a complex gearing system.  If the general feeling on the forums was that Wildstar's misstep was giving us too few stats and too few options, I'd agree, but having been at ground zero here, that's not the case.  The reason the rune changes are going in now and gear changes going in later is because feedback centers around BiS gear being too hard to get through the RNG.  Literally, people were saying a piece of gear was worthless if it didn't have exactly the "right" stats and the "right" runes.  Whatever possible variation is essentially being sacrificed to simplify the process.
 
And that's typical.  As an audience, we say we want gearing to be complex, to give us options, to let us experiment.  As an audience, we actually do reduce all of the possible elements, options, and choices down to their most simple forms and come out with optimized lists.  That doesn't necessarily mean people execute them correctly (as your example demonstrates), but the intent is pretty clear.  Carbine wasn't told that we wanted to make armor faceted to give us different resistances that we could combine, they were told that it was too hard to get BiS everything and to remove the RNG.  People asked for a standardized set of BiS gear, Carbine made it, and now people are clamoring for it to be given to them now to solve their problems with RNG.  And I'm not even just talking about people getting the hyperbolized insight and brutality gear, I'm talking about people micromanaging strikethrough who were going for a month without getting a piece of gear because it didn't help them.
 
I think, sometimes, the unintended consequences and the incoherence of our feedback don't strike people until afterwards, but right now Wildstar is moving away from variable gear arrays to give people more streamlined gear choices.  The time they'll be going WoW style and adding a half dozen new secondary stats to give flavor to pieces isn't coming soon (Hell, even WoW has been phasing them out).  As much as we like saying we want a very variable set of stats, and I would like them as well (I'm planning on going back to EVE if the game cops it, of course), that conflicts directly with where the game's gearing is going right now and what people tend to do in these games.
 
Would it be nice to have?  Personally, I like them, but even I know that a gearing system in that vein is often underutilized, underappreciated, and resource-intensive.  As Vick said, it's hard enough for them to balance the ROLES, the classes are a nightmare to balance, and the last thing they're probably thinking right now is whether or not they should add new shield v HP regeneration rates to armor so that those can be boiled down to basic parts and called broken when suddenly Stalker tanks can outperform Warriors and Engineers hands down because of how it interfaces with Nano Field.
 
Unfortunately, there is such a thing as too much game.  EVE benefits from that added complexity.  Wildstar may well not, especially with the way PVP is integrated.  So far, the greater population of Wildstar has not dealt well with variety.  Especially given their current situation, I'm not surprised at all that gear is being fitted to a token model rather than letting us mix and match with randomized stats.  They've got enough balancing trouble as it is without opening more potential flame material.
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I think that's where the LAS goes.  There's a lot more variation in the LAS and ability setups than the gear in Wildstar.
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I think the term rotation is fine until people start thinking in terms of one-rotation-to-rule-them-all.
 
Especially in WS where a person's rotation is going to be hugely impacted by their skill at positioning.
 
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I think that's where the LAS goes.  There's a lot more variation in the LAS and ability setups than the gear in Wildstar.
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No, I'm not taking it personally.  I was, however, being direct with you :)
 
We've more or less beat this particular topic to death (or at least into the realm of philosophy rather than practicality), so I'll just say it again.  If Wildstar's itemization gets "streamlined" and "simplified, it will result in a number of players who appreciate depth and complexity becoming far less interested in the game.  If we are to asume that the faceless masses of players fall into the opposite category (they just want their fun now, don't make them think), then ok whatever.  On the other hand if we are to assume that the faceless masses of players are more like us, and that a fair portion of them do appreciate having some depth and complexity and that some of them actually *enjoy* tinkering with stats and items - then that's a big problem.
 
What does that really mean?  It means that just like you draw a line at an F2P conversion, I draw a line at having the game dumbed down, at least in this respect.  That's not being elitest, but a game that gives me no freedom of choice in the development of my character is not one I want to play, and I feel confident in saying that many players who I interact with in game feel very much the same.
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WoW is stripping any semblance of creativity out of its specs and gear and content-tiered gear is just becoming a fact of MMORPG life nowadays.
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What I meant by not encouraging much variation:
 
I'll use DPS Medic as an example:
 
Right now we have 1 DPS builder that branches into 2 different spenders (pretty similar across all six classes).
 
This is the sole basis for any DPS Medic, because they have no other choices. Yes, there are six other ability slots, but the way the LAS is built right now, Medics are always locked into two of these three skills.
 
Just as a basic idea: What would happen if we threw in AMPs that could turn other skills into builders? For example, an AMP that allowed any of our five Probes abilities to build an actuator on every 2nd proc, or an AMP that offered a chance to build an actuator every time the Medic had a critical hit?
 
These are the types of things that offer build variety.
 
I'm all for keeping the LAS to eight skills, but right now the skill selection is limited (see edit below). The system has a lot of potential.
 
EDIT: Also, in case I wasn't clear earlier, the skill pools in GW had several hundred skills per class, and each character was able to utilize two classes at a time. That's why I said I was spoiled with GW's skill and gear system, and that's probably why I see WS's current skill pool as very limited, whereas other people do not.
 
{| class="blockquote"
WoW is stripping any semblance of creativity out of its specs and gear and content-tiered gear is just becoming a fact of MMORPG life nowadays.
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If this is truly the industry trend then I guess it's time to find a new social hobby.  Which sucks.  I really liked MMORPGs :(
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Things only ever become a "fact" of MMO life for two reasons:
 
1) devs aren't creative with adapting or rethinking existing systems that work...because god knows if one system works, there can't possibly be another that does equally well...
(WS has already moved past this on lots of levels, which is why it stands out for many of us.)
 
2) people keep insisting upon relating everything back to WoW...because if WoW does it, it's now MMORPGospel <_<
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There is no "perfect" MMORPG simply because of the inclusion of the words Massively Multiplayer in the genre. Every player is going to have a slightly different opinion on what constitutes perfection, and therefore the mass market makes it inherently unattainable.
 
However, funneling everything toward a comparison with WoW is unhealthy in the extreme, both for players and for the genre.
 
And, honestly, as someone who disliked WoW enough that I unsubbed within 3 months of starting (and that was after a lot of its content had been added and the game was streamlined), I'm simply tired of hearing the comparisons. WoW is not the alpha and omega of MMOs.
 
 
 
To change the subject, Loremaggedon part 2: Granok and Chua.
 
I really like the description of the Granok relationship with the Aurin especially, and the relationship description with the Mordesh made me think of Pinky and the Brain. :D
 
Now to read the Chua one...	
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{| class="blockquote"
There is no "perfect" MMORPG simply because of the inclusion of the words Massively Multiplayer in the genre. Every player is going to have a slightly different opinion on what constitutes perfection, and therefore the mass market makes it inherently unattainable.
 
However, funneling everything toward a comparison with WoW is unhealthy in the extreme, both for players and for the genre.
 
And, honestly, as someone who disliked WoW enough that I unsubbed within 3 months of starting (and that was after a lot of its content had been added and the game was streamlined), I'm simply tired of hearing the comparisons. WoW is not the alpha and omega of MMOs.
 
 
 
To change the subject, Loremaggedon part 2: Granok and Chua.
 
I really like the description of the Granok relationship with the Aurin especially, and the relationship description with the Mordesh made me think of Pinky and the Brain. :D
 
Now to read the Chua one...
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That pretty much describes a slightly more in-depth, multiplayer version of Dark Souls, which was/is actually rather popular, but that's because the comprehensive package was very well done.
 
I don't really know what to say about the difficulty issue as far as MMOs. While it does seem like lots of people object to it...at the same time, the difficulty is one major reason why some of us (myself included) are still here.
 
Two concepts came to mind that might allow MMOs to incorporate difficult content, and both rely on allowing the player to toggle difficulty settings, rather than having the difficulty inherent in the game:
 
1) Allow the player to scale back their own stats. In most games, players can do this manually by removing gear. However, if an MMO wanted to streamline the process, they could implement a slider that would reduce the player's stats automatically for each area of the game. Some games do this with downscaling when a high-level character visits a lowbie area. However, I'm talking about taking stats even lower than at-level. This would inherently make all mobs more difficult for the player. The player's personal settings would also not affect any other player in the area, and the zone could be designed based on the at-level stats.
 
2) Allow the player to toggle an advanced PvE mode. In effect, every mob in the game would have two skill sets. The first would be the base set for normal play. The second would be the 'advanced' skill set that the mob would only use vs. a player with that mode toggled. The mob's skill set would change based on the first player that attacked it. The major drawback to this system is that it would affect any other players fighting the same mob. However, having a different skill set for each mob would be far more exciting than simply lowering the player's stats by a percentage. In order to use the advanced PvE mode in groups, the group would need to have the advanced setting toggled on unanimously.	
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There seems to be a disconnect between the Chua general lack of respect for authority and the Loremageddon's claim that they're practicing members of the Vigilant Church.
 
It'd make more sense to me if it said "pretend to be practicing members of the Vigilant Church to appease their superiors" or something like that.	
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That pretty much describes a slightly more in-depth, multiplayer version of Dark Souls, which was/is actually rather popular, but that's because the comprehensive package was very well done.
 
I don't really know what to say about the difficulty issue as far as MMOs. While it does seem like lots of people object to it...at the same time, the difficulty is one major reason why some of us (myself included) are still here.
 
Two concepts came to mind that might allow MMOs to incorporate difficult content, and both rely on allowing the player to toggle difficulty settings, rather than having the difficulty inherent in the game:
 
1) Allow the player to scale back their own stats. In most games, players can do this manually by removing gear. However, if an MMO wanted to streamline the process, they could implement a slider that would reduce the player's stats automatically for each area of the game. Some games do this with downscaling when a high-level character visits a lowbie area. However, I'm talking about taking stats even lower than at-level. This would inherently make all mobs more difficult for the player. The player's personal settings would also not affect any other player in the area, and the zone could be designed based on the at-level stats.
 
2) Allow the player to toggle an advanced PvE mode. In effect, every mob in the game would have two skill sets. The first would be the base set for normal play. The second would be the 'advanced' skill set that the mob would only use vs. a player with that mode toggled. The mob's skill set would change based on the first player that attacked it. The major drawback to this system is that it would affect any other players fighting the same mob. However, having a different skill set for each mob would be far more exciting than simply lowering the player's stats by a percentage. In order to use the advanced PvE mode in groups, the group would need to have the advanced setting toggled on unanimously.
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Sadly, won't work.  It sounds good on paper, but what happens is that even if a few people will voluntarily increase difficulty, the majority of players just want the shortest path to the cheese.  And since humans have a tendency to want to compare their progress to that of others, this results in social pressure to do things the easy way in order to "keep up" with everyone else.
 
Sad, isn't it?
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To change the subject, Loremaggedon part 2: Granok and Chua.
 
I really like the description of the Granok relationship with the Aurin especially, and the relationship description with the Mordesh made me think of Pinky and the Brain. :D
 
Now to read the Chua one...
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lol
 
I think we can all agree on "less worthless crap."  :lol:	
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lol
 
I think we can all agree on "less worthless crap."  :lol:
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There seems to be a disconnect between the Chua general lack of respect for authority and the Loremageddon's claim that they're practicing members of the Vigilant Church.
 
It'd make more sense to me if it said "pretend to be practicing members of the Vigilant Church to appease their superiors" or something like that.
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Muahaha.  I know who the Exile winners are for the Lifestyles of Nexus contest  :ph34r:
 
Post should go up later tonight...  :D	
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{| class="blockquote"
Muahaha.  I know who the Exile winners are for the Lifestyles of Nexus contest  :ph34r:
 
Post should go up later tonight...   :D
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{| class="blockquote"
Sadly, won't work.  It sounds good on paper, but what happens is that even if a few people will voluntarily increase difficulty, the majority of players just want the shortest path to the cheese.  And since humans have a tendency to want to compare their progress to that of others, this results in social pressure to do things the easy way in order to "keep up" with everyone else.
 
Sad, isn't it?
 
@VicVanMeter - I respect you a lot but I really don't understand why you believe that Wildstar has to become WoW in order to thrive.  I know that's incredibly blunt, but that's what I'm reading in your posts today.  Most people I know currently playing Wildstar would *never* go back to WoW - and the more Wildstar becomes like WoW, the less they'll want to play at all.
 
You don't "fix" a game and broaden it's appeal by throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  SWG proved that.
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That pretty much describes a slightly more in-depth, multiplayer version of Dark Souls, which was/is actually rather popular, but that's because the comprehensive package was very well done.
 
I don't really know what to say about the difficulty issue as far as MMOs. While it does seem like lots of people object to it...at the same time, the difficulty is one major reason why some of us (myself included) are still here.
 
Two concepts came to mind that might allow MMOs to incorporate difficult content, and both rely on allowing the player to toggle difficulty settings, rather than having the difficulty inherent in the game:
 
1) Allow the player to scale back their own stats. In most games, players can do this manually by removing gear. However, if an MMO wanted to streamline the process, they could implement a slider that would reduce the player's stats automatically for each area of the game. Some games do this with downscaling when a high-level character visits a lowbie area. However, I'm talking about taking stats even lower than at-level. This would inherently make all mobs more difficult for the player. The player's personal settings would also not affect any other player in the area, and the zone could be designed based on the at-level stats.
 
2) Allow the player to toggle an advanced PvE mode. In effect, every mob in the game would have two skill sets. The first would be the base set for normal play. The second would be the 'advanced' skill set that the mob would only use vs. a player with that mode toggled. The mob's skill set would change based on the first player that attacked it. The major drawback to this system is that it would affect any other players fighting the same mob. However, having a different skill set for each mob would be far more exciting than simply lowering the player's stats by a percentage. In order to use the advanced PvE mode in groups, the group would need to have the advanced setting toggled on unanimously.
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I.... don't.  I'm not sure what you're getting at.  I'm not saying what I think they should do.  I talked about what I thought they should do here.  They didn't go that way.  I'm saying what they were talking about doing on the Nexus Report a month or so ago.  
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Just posting so Neph doesn't get the last word.
 
 ;)	
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Just posting so Neph doesn't get the last word.
 
 ;)
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Did an art stream before I head off to bed and did this lil thing toward the end...
 
Have a good night everyone see you tomorrow! I'll probably do another as well...see how I am doing on work...	
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I went to sleep.   :lol:
 
And to be fair, I totally agree with everything Neph said there.  Very often, we have no idea what we actually want.  I was just pointing out that Wildstar actually does sometimes feel like it was built on WoW feedback.  And that's a good thing for me, because I left a lot of that WoW feedback.  So this game feels almost custom tailored to what I wanted to have.
 
Boiled down, Neph and my views equate to this:  Wildstar was built as the un-WoW, a game that gave us what we were asking for all these years.  What they need to do is focus on the stuff Wildstar pulled from that which it does very well, not try to turn it into another WoW clone.  From all that chaos, Wildstar pulled probably the best core PVE MMORPG I've ever seen.  They need to stick with that and make it idiosyncratic rather than chase the will o' the wisp of general theme.
 
I think Carbine had a very "if you build it, they will come" idea.  That might yet be true, they'll simply need time in the system for it to work.
 
Also, someone else gets to make coffee today.  I'm that guy in the office that doesn't make coffee twice in a row because "it's someone else's turn."  I'm still a slacker.
 	
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			Should I make a new thread? Orrrr...	
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Should I make a new thread? Orrrr...
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			New thread is up :) 	
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