149050-are-the-devs-still-listening

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Wildstar has always and probably will always be a small game compared to others which is totally fine since it has advantages for every party involved. the publisher has little risk providing funds and if it works they can create a new cash cow, the game studio is not in over their head and the players kinda know what they can expect.
At least this was how Wildstar was in 2015 and why alot of players kept playing the game even tho it was far from perfect. It had potential to be really good and the devs were actively talking about the game.
Lately there has been a zero communication policy and the community is been ignored everywhere. Raiders are not happy because there is no date set for redmoon or anything new. we still farm the content that was open 2month? after release, Datascape. Nearly 1.5 years. longtime supporters are not happy because no new single player content (zones, adventures) is released, there is nothing to log into and do. PVP players are not happy because of the bots and general state of pvp, they were told that pvp would have endgame meaning and it obv hasnt. warplots are not a thing and even arena is a joke. The ingame shop has its pros and cons and it seems like the most "content" is created around the shop which in some way is understandable but takes away resources, who then cant work on pvp,pve,story content.
There have always been problems with Wildstar but in the past the devs were active on reddit/twitter/forums/youtube and were talking with us and taking the concerns into account.
SO... any dev still here and can give insights in what will come 2016? You dont have to go into details but it would be nice to FINALLY have a date for the "big news to come". Otherwise I (and alot of others) will get the impression that nothing new will come soon and the plan is the milk the whales a bit longer... and yea thats it.	
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Sure they are.
But probably to the wrong people.	
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			The actually had to redo a lot of the combat/crafting/runes/etc and add improvements to the current content since it went F2P. With that out of the way I assume more drops could be on the way. 
			
				
	Edited January 18, 2016 by goff01030	
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The actually had to redo a lot of the combat/crafting/runes/etc and add improvements to the current content since it went F2P. With that out of the way I assume more drops could be on the way. 
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			Seems like they have conflicts with other last i read	
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People are complaining about the exact same sillyness over on the SWTOR forums. They totally revamped thir gearing / stat system and people are complaining about "no new ops in a year".. meanwhile they brought out KotFE several months after the changes....
 
Pretty much the same deal here on W*... just had a major gearing / stat revamp, and got several events tossed at us (oh wait, holiday events don't count as content right? only [insert the content you personally prefer here] counts....)
 
I can understand the frustration... but building content takes time... especially when a majority of the systems you've had set up since launch are now obsolete... Plus after having to go through and completely re-situate the content we already had to the stat changes. It's a daunting task even for a huge studio. Would it really kill us to employ some empathy? This game will, (repeat after me) NEVER be exactly what you want it to be. No game ever has, or ever will. Constructive feedback is good, but pity-partying your poo-poo'd expectations is just silly....
			
				
	Edited January 18, 2016 by Nazryn	
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			Yea that WB event with all its "New content" much maze many wows.When the content you add is manly handled by your art department then yea your "content" is just a decor *cupcake* event. When your "contents" main objective is to run old content then yea such development time went into that.White knight somewhere else pls	
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Yea that WB event with all its "New content" much maze many wows.
 
When the content you add is manly handled by your art department then yea your "content" is just a decor *cupcake* event. When your "contents" main objective is to run old content then yea such development time went into that.
 
White knight somewhere else pls
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Heh, maybe it has just a little to with the fact they are still looking to hire a studio head?
 
Rudderless ship, and all that?	
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i really dont play the events after the halloween one... it seems like its a massive waste of time from my side :(
 
 
What i want is for drops in the world to become worth something again ... currently u get a lvl 54 epic and its just lol as blues from vet shiphands are ilvl 60-65 or something already. The signs of element are now also worthless so nothing to grind there either... I would like some open world grinding content tbh so i can actually enjoy myself again while outside of raiding in this game but not dailies. 
 
Dont talk to me about wb grinding ... you get 75 of the particles do the boss and get signs of *cupcake*ing air (i have like 2000 of these) for it instead of anything even close to useful 
			
				
	Edited January 18, 2016 by Genoshock	
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			It's not long since the game went F2P. I believe they will have regular content updates eventually, plus the holiday and limited events.	
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Who is "white knighting"? Quite sure I just pointed out this game (like all games) will never be perfect... But If you don't enjoy the game, do something else with your time. I personally enjoyed the holiday events, and I'm also enjoying the Sim Chase event. Do I think it's everyone's cup of tea? Of course not. Other content is in the pipe, and we've still got lots of stuff to do. I'm not gonna complain that making stuff takes time, and making bigger stuff takes more time... 
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I'll preface this by saying I can't tell you specifics at the moment, even though I know that's what you're after. We'll have more info for you soon regarding what's coming, but it's not something I can share this morning.
 
What I can tell you is this:
 
Yep, we're still listening.
 
Working, too. The F2P conversion took a great deal of our focus and time, and many of the folks that otherwise develop content were focused on making sure that went off well. It's only been a few months since that went live, and we've all been hard at work on new updates for you. Creating content takes time. We're not idle on that front, not by a long shot. I know it's difficult to see that when we don't show you what's in the pipe, but hang in there -- we've got more than cash shop updates coming. :)	
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I know it's difficult to see that when we don't show you what's in the pipe, 
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Might want to start by changing this
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I'll preface this by saying I can't tell you specifics at the moment, even though I know that's what you're after. We'll have more info for you soon regarding what's coming, but it's not something I can share this morning.
 
What I can tell you is this:
 
Yep, we're still listening.
 
Working, too. The F2P conversion took a great deal of our focus and time, and many of the folks that otherwise develop content were focused on making sure that went off well. It's only been a few months since that went live, and we've all been hard at work on new updates for you. Creating content takes time. We're not idle on that front, not by a long shot. I know it's difficult to see that when we don't show you what's in the pipe, but hang in there -- we've got more than cash shop updates coming. :)
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			Along the lines of what Caydiem said, but to add a bit to it. It's not that we don't want to tell you what's coming up. We do, and we will, but it's not going to happen this week, or even next. There was a great deal of planning and development that went into F2P - content was revamped, systems and items completely overhauled, world bosses re-thought, and in-game events designed. This all takes time, but we're not done, and we still have tons more to continue to do. We're not saying anything not because there's nothing, we just want to announce it at the right time.	
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Two things to consider here too:
 
1. Roadmaps are all fine and good--IF the players don't take it as etched in stone promises from the devs that X content absolutely WILL be coming on Y date. Unfortunately, a lot of times it goes like this:
 
a) Devs release roadmap of planned content.
b )Content doesn't arrive when posted on roadmap
c) Players flame devs because "waah, you promised this would be ready on this date!!" No, they DID NOT promise, they said that it was planned for this timeframe.
 
2. It's not like they don't want to tell us, it's that the decision to do so comes from way, way, WAY higher up the food chain than the devs that are authorized to communicate with us directly. It's their jobs if they release that information without the green light to do so.
 
 
EDIT: Clarity. Also, freaking unintended smilies.
			
				
	Edited January 18, 2016 by TheChuaBrigade	
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Guilds are reporting people 'taking a break' by the droves, the majority of new guilds that formed with F2P are falling apart.  PvP flips between being a ghost town or full of bots, Warhound has 1 raiding guild if the WS subreddit is anything to go by, server population on Jabbit reminds me of the months before the F2P patch only the people filling it aren't subscribers anymore and probably aren't dropping cash on service tokens like some of us are. 
 
I'm not sure what the right time is? It makes no difference to most us if we're told the patch is in 4 weeks or 6 weeks (numbers pulled out of butt). Like I said, I honestly feel like it's too late anyway, a upcoming content blog post with the turn of the new year might of kept people interested enough to linger around until the patch, but it's too late, they're gone and they've taken their subs and NCoin with them.The only thing I can hazard a guess is that CRB is bound by NCSoft policy to not announce, so people can get into BnS and drop cash in there, then after the inevitable new MMO exodus, CRB will be allowed to lift the press embargo and detail the patch with the hope of clawing some souls back across.  	
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The only thing I can hazard a guess is that CRB is bound by NCSoft policy to not announce, so people can get into BnS and drop cash in there, then after the inevitable new MMO exodus, CRB will be allowed to lift the press embargo and detail the patch with the hope of clawing some souls back across.  
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If that's the case, then NCSoft truly does not care about the future of WildStar. Shutting out one game to make the other a success is terrible business - especially seeing as Blade and Soul is just awful compared to WildStar in every meaningful way.
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Along the lines of what Caydiem said, but to add a bit to it. It's not that we don't want to tell you what's coming up. We do, and we will, but it's not going to happen this week, or even next. There was a great deal of planning and development that went into F2P - content was revamped, systems and items completely overhauled, world bosses re-thought, and in-game events designed. This all takes time, but we're not done, and we still have tons more to continue to do. We're not saying anything not because there's nothing, we just want to announce it at the right time.
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There is not much left of the devs are listening. That phrase has come down to be more of a running gag these days.
 
But they aren't talking to us either, so at least there is some consistency.	
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I must admit I don't really understand this wall of silence especially since alot of the competition has at least done a start of year producers letter announcing what to expect. I agree with an earlier poster, wither we are waiting 4 weeks or longer it would be nice to know what infact is coming rather than being left in the dark. 
 
The problem I see is the player unrest has started happening and there needs to be some sort of bone thrown in order to prevent alot of the regulars from just packing up and leaving. They should already know that once someone makes the decision to leave an MMO it is very rarely they dive back to that same game once they have left. It is not as if Wildstar is a game that can afford to hemorrhage alot of there long time regular players and we get f2p has kept you occupied but that is no excuse for not being able to type up a simple article/letter on the future of Wildstar in 2016 and what to expect.	
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			For note, I've got no proof of the BnS comment, by my own admission I was just being a cynical git.	
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Blade and soul is completely NCSoft right?
We can only hope they just want Blade and soul to shine for a while, get enough newcomers go for that game and spend some money there. Perhaps in 1-2 months, when the fresh taste of new mmo wears off it's time for Wildstar to shine again (with hopefully some new and fresh content). Or am I too optimistic now?	
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			It's a Catch 22 for them.  If they remain silent, they get steaming piles of horse apples dumped on them.  If they say we do have stuff planned we just can't talk about it, but we're letting you know we're still here, they get steaming piles of horse apples dumped on them.  Damn people.	
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Along the lines of what Caydiem said, but to add a bit to it. It's not that we don't want to tell you what's coming up. We do, and we will, but it's not going to happen this week, or even next. There was a great deal of planning and development that went into F2P - content was revamped, systems and items completely overhauled, world bosses re-thought, and in-game events designed. This all takes time, but we're not done, and we still have tons more to continue to do. We're not saying anything not because there's nothing, we just want to announce it at the right time.
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I'll preface this by saying I can't tell you specifics at the moment, even though I know that's what you're after. We'll have more info for you soon regarding what's coming, but it's not something I can share this morning.
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Guilds are reporting people 'taking a break' by the droves ....Warhound has 1 raiding guild if the WS subreddit is anything to go by
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What exactly are the reasons why you cannot say anything at all?
 
- because new stuff needs to be timed with China release?
- because on the internet nobody knows you're a dog?
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It's a Catch 22 for them.  If they remain silent, they get steaming piles of horse apples dumped on them.  If they say we do have stuff planned we just can't talk about it, but we're letting you know we're still here, they get steaming piles of horse apples dumped on them.  Damn people.
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Maybe we would understand if you give us a reason for the no-communication. As is, you are leaving everything for players to ponder and guess, and none of the speculation and theory in your favor at the moment.
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Don't get me wrong I really enjoy Wildstar but since playing the one thing that infuriates me is the lack of communication.   
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Because if they tell us, and (As they are wont to do) plans change, we never let them hear the end of it... Just look at the Red Moon content... they gave us an early look, and then when it didn't drop exactly when we wanted it too we're all up in arms, drowning the forums in complaints. They are between a rock and a hard place, and saying nothing until it's time to pull the trigger is the lesser of two evils.
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OK, guess I'll add even when they do tell us what's going on, if they do give us a date of when they will announce stuff(and Gods forbid if they have to delay it), they still get steaming piles of horse apples dumped on them.  Catch 22.  I'll have to say though, I give them kudos on still maintaining a chipper mien when they do give us anything, even with all the steaming piles of horse apples that get dumped on them.
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OK, guess I'll add even when they do tell us what's going on, if they do give us a date of when they will announce stuff(and Gods forbid if they have to delay it), they still get steaming piles of horse apples dumped on them.  Catch 22.  I'll have to say though, I give them kudos on still maintaining a chipper mien when they do give us anything, even with all the steaming piles of horse apples that get dumped on them.
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It's a Catch 22 for them.  If they remain silent, they get steaming piles of horse apples dumped on them.  If they say we do have stuff planned we just can't talk about it, but we're letting you know we're still here, they get steaming piles of horse apples dumped on them.  Damn people.
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Give them kudos, a shovel, and galoshes. Those horse apples are starting to get mighty deep.
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Along the lines of what Caydiem said, but to add a bit to it. It's not that we don't want to tell you what's coming up. We do, and we will, but it's not going to happen this week, or even next. There was a great deal of planning and development that went into F2P - content was revamped, systems and items completely overhauled, world bosses re-thought, and in-game events designed. This all takes time, but we're not done, and we still have tons more to continue to do. We're not saying anything not because there's nothing, we just want to announce it at the right time.
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"The only thing I can hazard a guess is that CRB is bound by NCSoft policy to not announce, so people can get into BnS and drop cash in there, then after the inevitable new MMO exodus, CRB will be allowed to lift the press embargo and detail the patch with the hope of clawing some souls back across. "
 
 
 
Seems more like NcSoft maybe avoiding  legal action from people who purchased the game a year ago by closing it down and giving full refunds- so at least having the game active for more than a year with sparsed updates will fill their requirement.
 
iam hoping this is not the case and wildstar is doing just fine with their player base. one can only hope for the best.
			
				
	Edited January 18, 2016 by Ticon	
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I'll preface this by saying I can't tell you specifics at the moment, even though I know that's what you're after. We'll have more info for you soon regarding what's coming, but it's not something I can share this morning.
 
What I can tell you is this:
 
Yep, we're still listening.
 
Working, too. The F2P conversion took a great deal of our focus and time, and many of the folks that otherwise develop content were focused on making sure that went off well. It's only been a few months since that went live, and we've all been hard at work on new updates for you. Creating content takes time. We're not idle on that front, not by a long shot. I know it's difficult to see that when we don't show you what's in the pipe, but hang in there -- we've got more than cash shop updates coming. :)
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It's a Catch 22 for them.  If they remain silent, they get steaming piles of horse apples dumped on them.  If they say we do have stuff planned we just can't talk about it, but we're letting you know we're still here, they get steaming piles of horse apples dumped on them.  Damn people.
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For a professional company with proper management there would be an easy solution to that:
 
Tell your customers what you are about to deliver and approximately when.
Stick to your word and deliver what has been announced in time and properly working condition.
 
If you aren't able to execute your business that way, you won't be in business for long.
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totally agree.  under-promise and over-deliver.  not the other way.  i think this is what gets lost sometime.  i do this regularly at work.  
"when can you get this done?"
"give me three days."
 get it done in two and people are ecstatic that they got it "sooner".  when in reality that is what it should take. you always pad the lead time just a little to account for unforeseen issues.  not so much where it loses business but not short enough where the proper work cant get done to satisfy the customer.
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Along the lines of what Caydiem said, but to add a bit to it. It's not that we don't want to tell you what's coming up. We do, and we will, but it's not going to happen this week, or even next. There was a great deal of planning and development that went into F2P - content was revamped, systems and items completely overhauled, world bosses re-thought, and in-game events designed. This all takes time, but we're not done, and we still have tons more to continue to do. We're not saying anything not because there's nothing, we just want to announce it at the right time.
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Along the lines of what Caydiem said, but to add a bit to it. It's not that we don't want to tell you what's coming up. We do, and we will, but it's not going to happen this week, or even next. There was a great deal of planning and development that went into F2P - content was revamped, systems and items completely overhauled, world bosses re-thought, and in-game events designed. This all takes time, but we're not done, and we still have tons more to continue to do. We're not saying anything not because there's nothing, we just want to announce it at the right time.
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That is called the "Mr. Scott School of Customer Service."
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We'll have more info for you soon regarding what's coming, but it's not something I can share this morning.
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If that's the case, then NCSoft truly does not care about the future of WildStar. Shutting out one game to make the other a success is terrible business - especially seeing as Blade and Soul is just awful compared to WildStar in every meaningful way.
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Not that it makes the silence any less powerful, but I've chosen to believe that this silence is NCsoft's commandment, and not Carbine's choice.  After loving CoH/CoV and living through what NCsoft did to that game (and Paragon Studios) I have no trust in NCsoft or its business practices.  By all accounts, it was still a profitable (and populated) game and this didn't prevent them shutting down that studio and the game.
 
Without wanting to make this into a 'DOOM!!' post, BnS makes me fear for the future of this game, given that, from anacedotal information, NCsoft will not hesitate to divert resources from one game into another (even if it means shutting a game and studio down) if they can see some reason for doing so.  I actually do believe Carbine care about the game (and, by proxy, the players as they know they need to keep the lights on).  I don't have the same faith in NCsoft.	
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Not that it makes the silence any less powerful, but I've chosen to believe that this silence is NCsoft's commandment, and not Carbine's choice.  After loving CoH/CoV and living through what NCsoft did to that game (and Paragon Studios) I have no trust in NCsoft or its business practices.  By all accounts, it was still a profitable (and populated) game and this didn't prevent them shutting down that studio and the game.
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I'll preface this by saying I can't tell you specifics at the moment, even though I know that's what you're after. We'll have more info for you soon regarding what's coming, but it's not something I can share this morning.
 
What I can tell you is this:
 
Yep, we're still listening.
 
Working, too. The F2P conversion took a great deal of our focus and time, and many of the folks that otherwise develop content were focused on making sure that went off well. It's only been a few months since that went live, and we've all been hard at work on new updates for you. Creating content takes time. We're not idle on that front, not by a long shot. I know it's difficult to see that when we don't show you what's in the pipe, but hang in there -- we've got more than cash shop updates coming. :)
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Actually, NCSoft has gone on the record that CoX was not a profitable game when it was shut down. Some developers have claimed otherwise. To the best of my knowledge, neither side has provided the financials showing both revenues and expenses associated with the game that would let those of us on the outside looking in know which one is right.
 
I was sad to see CoX go, and I want to be clear that I don't know which side has it right and which side has it wrong. But the only people in a position to actually know the answer to that one directly contradict each other, so it's not a "by all accounts" situation regardless of which side the CoX playerbase decided must be right.
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  I know it's difficult to see that when we don't show you what's in the pipe, but hang in there -- we've got more than cash shop updates coming.
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Yeah it's difficult trying to criticise or even ridicule some of the business practices of a development studio or publisher without seeming to attack those who work for it.
 
Ultimately however,if customers don't express disatisfaction the product owner will think everything is peachy, which it really isn't.
 
Unfortunately the majority of people opposed to the critics are those who joined just before or on F2P, so they just haven't experienced the content drought that others of us have.
 
However, if we refocus on the OP and move away from discussion of drop 7. When was the last time people saw regular interaction from our class leads? It used to feel like a conversation, now its like we're talking at a brick wall which occasionally reorganises itself into a shape we don't understand.	
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This just makes me incredibly sad..
 
Ultimately, no game can survive without a solid income stream. A solid player base is the predominant source of this income stream. Without it, you simply don't have the resources to develop content and maintain overheads.. aka 'keep the game alive'.
 
Despite my initial apprehension with the graphic style, WS won me over completely and I was always quick to defend any question of longevity (seriously.. it's so damn good! How could it NOT be successful? !).
 
That said, a sufficient playerbase is also required to make any MMO feel 'alive' (removing the MM.. 'O game' just doesn't have the same ring to it..) even I had to admit that the optimisation issues did, in fact, kill a very decent chance of a larger player base. (Aka 'Re-loaded're launch).
 
Both launches fundamentally failed in optimisation resulting in masses who WANTED to play the game (twice!) simply giving up when it became too frustrating to even attempt to log in.
 
I do understand the amount of time and money that was dedicated to the re launch and it's subsequent (understandable) impact on lead time of new content. However, I also understand that to the players you did manage to maintain, the FTP related work is unlikely to be seen as 'new content'. Had it resulted in a vastly larger player base, perhaps we would be having a different conversation... sadly, we're not.
 
As such, meaningful content becomes the 'last bastion' for the players who have remained.. For example.. raiders crave a new raid (because, dammit! The first 2 raids you gave us were seriously awesome!)
 
Alas, post the last 'announcement' (of.. reskin shop stuff?) Hope fled with the lack of anticipation due to the lack of well.. anything to be excited about.. and I finally unsubscibed :'( 
I may just be a single digit among many, but this is the likely impact that the lack of giving your playerbase something to be excited about has.
 
Damn you WS! You gave us exceptional snappy combat with seriously interesting content and left every other game leaving an "it's no Wildstar" taste in my mouth.. you have destroyed my ability to enjoy any other existing MMO ("they.just.feel.so.clunky") yet gave us no new content to devour and a dead (yes, I said it) playerbase.
 
I hope against hope (and the rational part of my brain) that you can, indeed, resurrect from the ashes and bring us all back the Wildstar that should have been. HOORAH!
 
Should you succeed, you WILL have a swarming playerbase, a truly great game and subsequently impressive profit margin.
(Giving your remaining player base something to get excited about would be a good start)
 
Best of luck :*	
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edit - apologies if this is considered off-topic, and if it's felt this is a 'bash NCsoft' post.  It's not intended to be that - it's simply designed to point out that past behaviour might be indicative of future behaviour (or the current silence we seem to be experiencing).
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What I can tell you is this:
 
Yep, we're still listening.
 
Working, too. The F2P conversion took a great deal of our focus and time, and many of the folks that otherwise develop content were focused on making sure that went off well. It's only been a few months since that went live, and we've all been hard at work on new updates for you. Creating content takes time. We're not idle on that front, not by a long shot. I know it's difficult to see that when we don't show you what's in the pipe, but hang in there -- we've got more than cash shop updates coming. :)
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If it's truly the case of being gagged by Ncsoft - leak the info, if not then just tell us what we have to look forward to. All this silence is making people think there is no meaningful content coming out any time soon.
 
You have no idea how difficult it is to recommend the game to anyone at this point. Having to defend WS with "well, the F2P redesign and Chinese release are taking them a great deal of time" is not a very good hype plug.	
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But really, in RL "soon" to most people means a few days, a week tops. Devs need to stop using the term "soon" from a devs perspective because "soon" to a dev seems (for some reason) like it can be a month or more.
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After going through my usual regime of checking the stories coming through on my RSS feeder I notice this article. 
 
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/498/feature/10487/After-Launch-Expect-a-Rapid-Series-of-Events-Throughout-the-Year.html/page/1
 
This is what is frustrating, the Blade & Soul team can let people know what to expect in the coming year which is found halfway down that article yet Carbine can't.  I understand that Blade & Soul has just been released but if the lack of info is a result from NCSoft wanting it delayed so B&S can get some exposure it kind of tells me the view they have on Wildstar which is concerning. 	
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After going through my usual regime of checking the stories coming through on my RSS feeder I notice this article. 
 
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/498/feature/10487/After-Launch-Expect-a-Rapid-Series-of-Events-Throughout-the-Year.html/page/1
 
This is what is frustrating, the Blade & Soul team can let people know what to expect in the coming year which is found halfway down that article yet Carbine can't.  I understand that Blade & Soul has just been released but if the lack of info is a result from NCSoft wanting it delayed so B&S can get some exposure it kind of tells me the view they have on Wildstar which is concerning. 
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I'm really not understanding where all the "NCSoft wants total silence on WS so BnS can get exposure" is coming from. It doesn't make much sense to me. NCSoft manages both studios, they don't win anything by having one do well at the expense of the other. They can talk about BnS AND Wildstar, and in fact in their much vaunted press event announcement they said they'd be doing exactly that.
 
If NCSoft is demanding a tighter-lipped Carbine Studios at all, I'd guess it has much more to do with the studio's PR writing checks they can't cash: quarterly updates at relaunch and a new raid tier around New Year's being the most obvious recent examples. 
 
But it also must be said that we don't know whether the silence is a command from above at all. We don't have any idea what's in Drop 7. I'd guess that if it doesn't contain a new post-DS raid tier--or does contain anything remotely resembling LFR--the wrath of the vocal minority will be epic. Carbine may not be very keen on having all that forumrage with no new content to keep everyone else's attention diverted from the sound and fury.
 
And of course Carbine may simply be waiting to make a statement until they themselves have a better idea of what will and won't be packaged into Drop 7, or what the plans going forward are. I'll admit to some skepticism that they know so little they can't tell us ANYthing, but I find it entirely plausible that they can't tell us much about their own future until they get word from NCSoft about it.
 
Whatever the reason, I doubt we'll be waiting long--NCSoft's next earnings statement is due in a few weeks, and I'm guessing Carbine won't be leaving us to interpret that one without their own narrative on the topic.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
I'm really not understanding where all the "NCSoft wants total silence on WS so BnS can get exposure" is coming from. It doesn't make much sense to me. NCSoft manages both studios, they don't win anything by having one do well at the expense of the other. They can talk about BnS AND Wildstar, and in fact in their much vaunted press event announcement they said they'd be doing exactly that.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is what is frustrating, the Blade & Soul team can let people know what to expect in the coming year which is found halfway down that article yet Carbine can't.  I understand that Blade & Soul has just been released but if the lack of info is a result from NCSoft wanting it delayed so B&S can get some exposure it kind of tells me the view they have on Wildstar which is concerning. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
'Soon' is an indeterminate amount of time between now+1nanosecond and forever which is why all developers love using it so much; this is in contrast to a conventional soon, which can be between a few hours to a few days. The developers 'soon' has no literal meaning, it's just a buzzword thrown around to appease angry, upset and anxious gamers, to give them false hope. As others have pointed out, it's a simple tactic developers use to cover their ass (Content eventually releases and devs can state: 'We said we'd have some new content coming to you soon and we were right'.) As far as I can remember, this has always been the case.
----
			
Reading through this thread makes me sad. I got excited for this game and played it during Beta, however due to a low end computer I wasn't able to play it at launch. It wasn't until Dec 2014 that I finally got to play this game. It was fun, quirky, and interesting. Unfortunately I burnt myself out around March then unsubbed around July (I regret unsubbing cause I missed on a lot of nice things). I came back for F2P and at first was mad at the changes but then quickly adapted. Now I'm having fun again, despite ups and downs regarding bugs (some that refuse to go away since I started playing) and hardware issues (oh Thayd why do you hate my high end computer?). 
 
I can understand the devs not wanting to say a lot but other MMO companies at least give us more things. For instance when GW 2 was promoting Thorns, they just threw snippets of new Profession stuff at us. WoW has MMO Champ constantly datamining and throwing stuff at us (though WoD still made me extremely bitter towards Blizzard). FF14 usually has things on a schedule, announcing things, showing one picture, and then leaving it at that. I mean you guys give us stuff like Space Chase, the Winterfest, Sim-Chase, all nice stuff to sorta tie us over but I mean it's just us doing current content for housing stuff (which is still fine, I like getting new stuff for the house). I dunno...I just want to see this game flourish and thrive. 	
----
			
Usually I hate the I'm quitting posts but All this bull with 'soon' and a stupid cash shop gimmicks have left me tired and bored as a player. I've spent several hours and dollars on this game however, I think it's about time to cut my losses and move on. Like many others I loved this game, but recently I personally have found it just bland, same dungeons, same raid, Ooo my house looks nice, now what? 
 
Let's be honest, the devs aren't listening. They haven't been since after F2P. The reason for the silence is up to debate but you know there's plenty of games out there, not sure which one I'll end up in. 
 
It's been fun but there's no more fun to be had	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Developer 'soon' is similar to parental 'soon' - designed to be placatory rather than represent a commitment to any known timeframe.
 
As such it's essentially meaningless. Better to say nothing than "soon".
 
 
----
			
Have the devs ever listened?
 
Carbine is flat out incompetent. And the incompetency is at it's absolute worst at the top.
 
I mean seriously, Carbine is still acting like the F2P conversion was some huge revamp when all it was was a stats/rune system change (which was completely unneccessary besides the fact that it made the game easier due to power creep, I guess that's an improvement) and adding the shop. They added literally nothing to actually improve the game. Annoying bugs still linger from beta. PvP is Carbine's neglected child with down syndrome that lives in the basement. They ask for feedback on class changes and completely ignore everything. This has been going on since they redesigned the UI during beta.
 
Still listening? Since when have you guys even made an attempt to open your ears? How dumb do you really think your playerbase is?
 
Let's face reality here. Carbine's been on this track of failure by following whatever plans they had of adding daily zones every month for a year. That's exactly what's coming with Drop 7. There's really nothing much else to talk about, they're just putting off the inevidable backlash from the community for shitty content. It's the same thing that happened with the shop. Carbine was so afraid of getting slapped with the P2W tag that they shyed away from anything of convenience on the shop, besides flasks (lol). Don't worry though I'm sure Drop 7 will come packaged with some stupid event involving RNG boxes via cash shop that the whales will just eat up, which is probably why Carbine is staying silent on the matter.	
----
			
You seem cranky, Heez.
 
Here man, have a Snickers.
 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You seem cranky, Heez.
 
Here man, have a Snickers.
 
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
100 grand are better :P
 
Anyway, insert words here.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Nuh-uh, Whatchamacallits are the best :D
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Nuh-uh, Whatchamacallits are the best :D
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
100 grand are better :P
 
Anyway, insert words here.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
U-NO bars would like a word. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I gather those aren't American.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Oh, them's fightin' words. http://annabellecandy.com/u-no-chocolate-bar/
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Nuh-uh, Whatchamacallits are the best :D
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm gonna have to go with Mr. Goodbar, but I've been told my taste in chocolate is weird.
 
(See, Devs listen, just sometimes we don't have anything useful to say...)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Your taste in chocolate is weird.  :P
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm gonna have to go with Mr. Goodbar, but I've been told my taste in chocolate is weird.
 
(See, Devs listen, just sometimes we don't have anything useful to say...)
----
			Caramello > all	
----
			Thank you Tex for interjecting some meaningful topic de-railing that we can all appreciate.  I don't always agree with you, but I respect you and your taste in chocolate.  Have to say I'm more of a Reese's man.  Chocolate needed something and peanut butter was there to deliver.  and Atomicpanda - would have figured I was naturally too salty, but the wife doesn't seem to mind...  
			
				
	Edited January 20, 2016 by Eidolon Zephyrhawk	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You seem cranky, Heez.
 
Here man, have a Snickers.
 
(image)
----
			
It's a shame but really could be game over this year! My Reddit post below talks of a death spiral, without great PR there is no way off the slide! Also see B&S failing in the west within 2 years, resulting in NCSOFT pulling the plug this side of the world.
 
The most worrying thing is, by not communicating with the player base they lose all creditability, this in turn leads to even more negative feelings and creates a death spiral! How do I convince myself to keep supporting the game by buying digital items ? When I have no idea if the platform I display them on will still be there in the morning ? PR at Carbine stinks, it always did! But it's quite obvious that they are being bound and gagged by NCSOFT, they sold their soul to the devil and now must live with it....the players ? Who the fcuk cares about the players
 
Even twitter went dead....seems this is the only place Carbine can post	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Even twitter went dead....seems this is the only place Carbine can post
 
----
			
Cadbury. Dairy. Milk.
 
You yankeedoodles just wouldn't understand.	
----
			
"Dubbelnugge" ftw :P
 	
----
			
Sorry,
 
but if you're all talking about chocolate, then please take the right stuff from my country:
 	
----
			
Btw someone posted this on mmo-champion, don't know what to make out of it though:
 
http://www.kdbdw.com/bbs/download/203797.pdf?attachmentId=203797
 	
----
			
nothing much unless you know their costs and losses.
Then you can calculate whether they made profit or not.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
nothing much unless you know their costs and losses.
Then you can calculate whether they made profit or not.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Btw someone posted this on mmo-champion, don't know what to make out of it though:
 
http://www.kdbdw.com/bbs/download/203797.pdf?attachmentId=203797
 
----
			
There's simply too many factors at play here.
 
First of all, the information is coming from a Stock broker.
This is what the analysts on the market use as a base for determining their strategy on buy/sell for stocks related to NCSoft.
Meaning that is information, guessed/deducated from information released by NCSoft, past transactions and forecasts made by the company.
 
This is not an official release from NCSoft, nor an indication what NCSoft is going to be doing.
It's simly the Asian exchange speculating and trying to make money of NCSoft's stock.
 
Whether NCSoft will reveal separate sales from China is anyone's guess.
Can be done, Can also just be listed under royalties for the games from foreign territories.
Again, many implications for both, but NCsoft's decision.
 
As to why it shows 0 for one of the Quarters?
Most likely a rounding error. The number could roughly translate to a few hundred thousands, which would be 0.1 - 0.4, if the sheet only accepts whole numbers, it will round it down to 0.
Which is why this information is very biased as the view is extremely skewed.
If the earnings were really 0, this game wouldn't even be running anymore.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
There's simply too many factors at play here.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Cadbury. Dairy. Milk.
 
You yankeedoodles just wouldn't understand.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Then how does it all compare? Why does 2016Q1 Lineage1 has 76 but WS only 2? Those numbers must be some kind of units of measurement, isn't it? As for the costs of running the games, do you think the costs of running Lineage1 are much higher than WS?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Btw someone posted this on mmo-champion, don't know what to make out of it though:
 
http://www.kdbdw.com/bbs/download/203797.pdf?attachmentId=203797
 
 <snip>
----
			
Well, this thread got awesome while I wasn't looking.
 
 :lol:
 
And I'm not sure what to make of those numbers. Tea. Assuming it's legit, profitable or not, it seems like WildStar is little more than a teeny-tiny blip on the NCSoft portfolio. Which could be either (or both) good and bad.
 
If the overhead is low enough and the game still profitable, a smaller game could go on with basic content updates for years and still bring in a trickle of profit. Even for a big publisher, a little profit is better than none. On the other hand, if the profit margin isn't great enough - or if it's actually costing NCSoft money to keep WildStar going in the long run - then the long-term prospects aren't looking so hot.
 
I just don't know.	
----
			
I'm making some assumptions here, so please correct me if I'm wrong.  My assumptions should be read along with other posters comments about not knowing expenditure and liabilities for each of the 'sources' mentioned in the table and the source of this information and their uses for it.
 
So, with that in mind (and assuming that 'Wbn' is billions of Korean Won (KRW) and the table is based on solid revenue figures for 75% of 2015), my very crude summary is;
 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1jY4NoLYoUeeGh5dHo1STVGN1E/view?usp=sharing
 
(Sorry, I've tried to get the image to show, but apparently JPG or Google Drive aren't allowed on these forums).
 
Which means that, with the last quarter as a forecast, WS' revenue for 2015 was equivalent to $7,399,260USD.  It would be curious to see how accurate that last quarter's forecast was, and what were the total expenses for WS in 2015.  I think the forecast is pretty optimistic, given it's more than quadruple the each of the previous two quarters amounts and triple the first quarter (but that would be case given f2p earnings would be in the last quarter).
 
It's clear to see where, in terms of game titles, the bulk of revenue comes from.
			
				
	Edited January 20, 2016 by SlackTech	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I wouldn't read too much into that as I highly doubt the earnings have been the same for the 3rd quarter as the 4th quarter.  F2p launched in the 4th quarter and that always brings in alot of players initially and then things start smoothing out, so what they are basically saying is with all those extra players they got little to no cash from extra subs or cash shop purchases.
 
I can't see that happening at all considering the player numbers look to be higher than pre-f2p was.  Add onto that normally you do get a boost in income when f2p hits then I would be skeptical of those numbers. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well, Free-to-Play is ... well ... it's FREE.
 
Ten Hundred Million players could have walked through Nexus and not spent a penny. In fact, while the number probably isn't that high, I expect the analogy is pretty accurate. :lol:
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You're correct in theory, but as I pointed out before: 
Your forecast for Wildstar has been lowered again (that's bad, especially since it's lowered by half)
You're talking about earnings. (7 million earned is nice, but you don't know what remains)
Compared to all other games of NCsoft, it's abysmall low.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well, Free-to-Play is ... well ... it's FREE.
 
Ten Hundred Million players could have walked through Nexus and not spent a penny. In fact, while the number probably isn't that high, I expect the analogy is pretty accurate. :lol:
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well by rights that should say Kraft....they definitely should understand now!!  :D
----
			
I was in a chocolate factory in Cologne a good few years back and got myself some chocolate gummy bears.....which came in handy as I had to walk up the steps of this massive cathedral and thought I was going to keel over and die halfway up them. Luckily a good few gummy bears later and a chocolate and sugar rush and I managed to make it to the top, so if your ever in Cologne avoid the cathedral and just hit the chocolate factory and the bars as its alot more fun. 
 
			
				
	Edited January 20, 2016 by Scarran	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I was in a chocolate factory in Cologne a good few years back and got myself some chocolate gummy bears.....which came in handy as I had to walk up the steps of this massive cathedral and thought I was going to keel over and die halfway up them. Luckily a good few gummy bears later and a chocolate and sugar rush and I managed to make it to the top, so if your ever in Cologne avoid the cathedral and just hit the chocolate factory and the bars as its alot more fun. 
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Those look like diabeetus incarnate!
Did the Cathedral in 2013 when we went to Gamescom.  Felt really proud of myself for the exercise, then went the the NCSoft community and drunk lord knows how much beer...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That the forecast goes down is in definition bad.
It implies that investors and analysts do not hold much hope for Wildstar.
----
			I was stationed in Kaiserslautern Germany for a few years, almost 20  years ago now :o   :huh: .  Had some what I thought were Cherry Cordials, man was that a shock to bite into it and get a hit of brandy LOL  We don't usually put alcohol in chocolate you can pick up in a normal grocery store here in the States, so I wasn't ready for it :P
			
				
	Edited January 20, 2016 by beattlebilly	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
In another thread (https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/149101-theres-something-wrong-at-walatiki-and-warhound/&do=findComment&comment=1482042), someone mentioned/claimed he was in the CB for WildStar in China. If that train is still on the tracks there is at least short-term hope, as I don't think money would be invested for a China release if the axe was about to fall.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Additionally, Carbine is currently hiring... Also probably not in line with being on a short list to get cut...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That doesn't mean anything to be honest. Ive been part of a company who were hiring right up until they had to close the branch down.  
 
Worst part was they took on a new manager who gave up a decent position only to end up out a job a month later and the big wigs knew it was coming but still took him on anyway.  I would like to say that was a rare occurrence but ive seen it happen in alot of other places, so just because they are hiring does not necessarily mean they wont get cut. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I was stationed in Kaiserslautern Germany for a few years, almost 20  years ago now :o   :huh: .  Had some what I thought were Cherry Cordials, man was that a shock to bite into it and get a hit of brandy LOL  We don't usually put alcohol in chocolate you can pick up in a normal grocery store here in the States, so I wasn't ready for it :P
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's why I said "probably" ;)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yep I seen that. But probably to me was taken as almost certainly and maybe out of context as it gave off the view the chances of it not getting cut because they are hiring are pretty high. What I was trying to say was just because they are hiring doesn't hold alot of weight on wither they get cut or not.
 
Now it is better than them having to let go of people but I wouldn't look too much into it.   
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Actually, I've seen some chocolates that had small amounts (VERY small) of liquor (like Jack Daniels, Jim Beam, and the like) Of course, you have to be legal drinking age and all to purchase them, but...yeah, you could get them from a convenience store.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I shall be crossing everything in the hope its the better part as im enjoying Wildstar and would hate to see the doors close.  
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
of course we'll see what happens in due time, for better or worse.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
My bit of consolation is that if nothing else, NCSoft knows how to work Asian releases... to their credit, there was some substantial hype when I was in Taiwan last year... I'm keeping all my appendages crossed as well !!!
----
			Lets hope the game is sucessful in China, if it is we can finally get more zones. 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Ahhh... but has Carbine REALLY sorted the horrible server lag issues that plagued the f2p release? I assume they will at least be smart enough to have more servers ready to go for China launch but if the only reason the server lag was "fixed" was due to less players due to so many leaving the game because of it, then this will be another wasted opportunity.
 
Some people would prefer to see their company burn to the ground than admit they are wrong or request help (seen it first hand), let hope it's not the case with guy in charge of the servers!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I love Kahlua filled chocolates, got some at Christmas.  They're all gone now of course.
 
A bit more on topic, yes China CBT is going on now.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'd say we could sell out to the vocaloid phenomena in the overseas market but I still want to be able to log in and enjoy the game...  conflicts of interest and all that.  Although.... could you imagine how many people would want to use their wildstar avatars for this crap?  
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxIol5wTFns
 
Think of the AURINS, man...   
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That clip is 50 shades of awesome! #team90s
 
Does it work like Facerig?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I love Kahlua filled chocolates, got some at Christmas.  They're all gone now of course.
 
A bit more on topic, yes China CBT is going on now.
----
			Last night a few of our guildies all came to the same conclusion. If the China release tanks or never happens, then we should be worried. Otherwise just keep playing the game like it will be here tomorrow.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Last night a few of our guildies all came to the same conclusion. If the China release tanks or never happens, then we should be worried. Otherwise just keep playing the game like it will be here tomorrow.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Last night a few of our guildies all came to the same conclusion. If the China release tanks or never happens, then we should be worried. Otherwise just keep playing the game like it will be here tomorrow.
----
			I don't know what the rest of you are smoking, but the It's-It ice cream sandwich is clearly the best ice cream sandwich. 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Hey Everyone  -
 
While we can’t say much about what exactly is coming up in the not-to-distant future – we do want to kind of give you a hint or two. So, tune in next week where we have a few surprises that will give you a peak into what’s coming for WildStar.
 
There’s some exciting things ahead, and we can’t wait to share them with you!
 
Team WildStar
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Hey Everyone  -
 
While we can’t say much about what exactly is coming up in the not-to-distant future – we do want to kind of give you a hint or two. So, tune in next week where we have a few surprises that will give you a peek into what’s coming for WildStar.
 
There’s some exciting things ahead, and we can’t wait to share them with you!
 
Team WildStar
----
			
Hey Everyone  -
 
While we can’t say much about what exactly is coming up in the not-to-distant future – we do want to kind of give you a hint or two. So, tune in next week where we have a few surprises that will give you a peek into what’s coming for WildStar.
 
There’s some exciting things ahead, and we can’t wait to share them with you!
 
Team WildStar
			
				
	Edited January 21, 2016 by CRB_Sunshine
	
		a word	
----
			
My 2 cents or rather few dollars.
 
The fact is Carbine did close to everything to destroy this game. It is still one of the best, if not simply best MMO, but numbers of stupid mistakes is so massive you can easily spread them between few games causing them to fail. Moreover most of those mistakes could be avoided, if devs would listen.
 
They started with 1 months major patches and that was the reason for "premium" on sub compared to every competitor. After 2m they give up on that and move towards 3m patches. That would be still OKish (well I would expect more content inside each one of them, but nvmd...). Still on D6 we had to w8 4,5m and it was because F2P - why would I care and where is any good change that explains delay, cuz reworking whole itemization does not explain delay, especially that it was done poorly at best. Now we w8 for D7 it's been 4m already (well few days left), no info about patch, no PTR, nothing.... So I should expect next drop, that will bring some minor content changes and massive itemization changes (as it was always since D3) in march/april I guess. Next should be around december/january, next year after that, later 1,5y and so on....
 
On top of that current game monetization is even worse than before F2P and my guess is, that it brings less $ to Carbine. SRLY this game could life from selling housing decors and character costumes alone. But for that you need cool looking costumes in shop, not some ugly and other even uglier, you need decent decors for reasonable prices, probably best would be a bit more expensive theme decor packs (by pack I mean 50-100 decors, not 5-10), that unlocks ability to buy them on housing vendor. And in every F2P game I have played most of massive premium currency consumers were not players, that actually have paid for that currency - not even have idea how much $ carbine is loosing because not having decent premium items trading system.
 
For almost two years you have failed to attract ppl into dungeons/adventures, that are about (probably more than that) 1/2 of endgame content. 1 small change could fix that. Either you need some items to give to vendor along with raid tokens to get gear (tradeable items) - many will dislike that, but it works in some games. Or you may just add many items like current eldan gloves. With that probably set bonuses on DS gear to make it relevant. As for adventures they may be only place that drop gadgets... Done! - both dungs and adventures are relevant and ppl have something to do in game after raids (currently after raid you can go another raid or log off). Yet here we are in D6 with 3 MASSIVE MAJOR changes in itemization (4 if we include exceptional runes in D5) and nothing have been done.
 
That brings me to PvP... First fail was 1,8k arena gear, obtainable only in arenas that many PvP players haven't seen - as some dont like them (at least few months after original release), gear for rating sure - as costumes alone... Want gear progression make it for participation alone. Regardless of that 1,8k gear was so broken, that 5 good players could carry whole team in 10 vs. 10 BG facing good 1,5k team. Only took you 8 months to fix it. By that time I would say 98% of PvP population that was as big as PvE on original release left (ofc there were more reasons, like shield with close to perma IA on it, WA with snare special etc... - the fact is most of PvP problems were because failed itemization, that could and should be fixed within first 3-4 weeks) and some other were due to class issues, that were fixed in most stupid way either breaking PvE or just destroying very core of that class.
On D4 PvP was finally fixed some players even started participating and again you have added "free" AMPs and ATs, that attracted some "I will go afk" players without any will to fight. Most of them finally got their unlocks and PvP looked as it should, even better there were incentives, as you have added contract system. Rewards were moderate except for last tier where you could take 3 exceptional rune tokens and it was a big deal for PvP, but worked well for PvE contracts as well. There was something do do outside of raid hours.
D6 and you have destroyed contract system, if you have all cosmetic rewards you may as well ignore contracts only reason to do them is because there is literally nothing else to do in this game outside of raid hours. But PvP itself was fine, untill flood of bots. Same bots every single day, most of them lvled up to 50 while botting, that took them only 2m and you failed to ban them for another 2m, until PvP became desert...
 
I could go on with that... PvP servers, dual fraction system, raid id, instead of boss lock system, 40m raid from d1 after release... But all of that have been mentioned many times before. Simple as that devs are not listening	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I don't know what the rest of you are smoking, but the It's-It ice cream sandwich is clearly the best ice cream sandwich. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's all well and good, but you still haven't told us your stance on the best ice cream sandwiches. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Hey Everyone  -
 
While we can’t say much about what exactly is coming up in the not-to-distant future – we do want to kind of give you a hint or two. So, tune in next week where we have a few surprises that will give you a peek into what’s coming for WildStar.
 
There’s some exciting things ahead, and we can’t wait to share them with you!
 
Team WildStar
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I love you and i want you to know that.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Thank you!!! I love you too. :wub:
----
			Although the news of a halls of the bloodsworn revamp is good enough for me (found out about it coming with next drop), finding out even more is always good. Will be an interesting next week then :)	
----
			Wildstar could be successful in China, because they also have a huge number of fantasy MMO and wildstar is sci-fi with guns and vehicle mounts.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
D'awe...  
 
Bring it in guys!
 
----
			Chua warriors?	
----
			
Hey all,
 
I wanted to jump in here and reiterate what Sunshine said. I know that things have been a little quiet as of late, but let me assure that some juicy stuff is coming very soon, and I think that everyone is going to really happy about what we are going to be talking about.
 
Thanks to everyone for being patient. More than anyone, I know that it can be frustrating to wait for big WildStar news - and we want to talk about it as much as you want to hear it. ;) And I want you all to know that the WildStar team is absolutely still listening, and is working hard to continue making this game great.
 
Ok. I better stop writing before I start leaking like a sieve and lose my job.
 
Thanks all!
 
Pappy	
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Chua warriors?
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I'd like to think it'll be LFR; I don't think anything else will really get a large number of people interested in the game again but from experience (and intuition) I reckon it'll be a disappointment.
 	
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I want chuas of any kind!
But warrior would be nice, got Rest in piecemaker in account inventory waiting for a chua to be able to equip it :P	
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