146988-how-many-still-have-hope-page-3

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no mmo is harder thats why i am here, but would i play a game that does not challenge me any more? atm the only reason i still log in is to run a few dungeons with guild members and to raid with my guild (just like in any other mmo and its fine!). but if there is no new content for month (soon over a year) i can see alot of raiders stop caring about logging in or playing WS at all. There is a certain limit keeping players motivated and if you have seen everything 30+ times it gets boring (even if you have to concentrade each time) and you want new content/something different. I do at least tick this way.
 
I would just play fallout 4 or do more rl stuff in those evenings i am currently raiding. Just because MMOs are dead for me it does not mean i dont find stuff to play.
I'm no student any longer so my time is limited and i want to play games i like, like the hard raids in WS. If they stop coming or getting released way way way too slowly (as it is now) i'm not motivated to keep playing this game. Obviously its the same in every mmo at some time but if we are honest. WoW doesnt take a year to release a new raid. there will be 2 new expensions in the time Wildstar released 1 new raid (not even speaking of expensions for WS). And no i dont go and play WoW, its the worst MMO but at least they create content for the brainless plebs (and the few good mysthic raiders) who play it.
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			I like this game. Never undestood the urge to tell on forums when you decide to quit a game. I have quit many games in my life and never once posted a why-post on their forums.	
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You missed his point entirely.
 
Why would they focus on new raids every 4 to 6 months when only a few people have completed what is there?
 
18 guilds have completed the raids we have now. That isn't a lot of people. If they focused their development time on 18 guilds they would lose a lot more players that aren't raiding.
 
To put it bluntly, they can afford to lose raiders, they can't afford to lose everyone else.
 
In a subscription based game, raiders are the lifeblood. You keep subbing and they keep pumping out content. In a free to play game, new and casual players are the lifeblood. They are the ones that spend in the cash shop and keep the game afloat. 
 
The focus of the game has shifted to survival. Keeping the "hardcore" happy isn't going to keep the game alive. You are a minority, an expendable minority. 
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Technical stuff
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			Try rebooting your modem, I am not claiming this to be a silver bullet for fixing lag. However it has help me.	
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I didnt miss his point. i just dont care about his point and made it clear why i dont care about it.
I was just giving my 2 cents about the current state of WS and that they need regular (every 4-6 month) and challenging (like DS) raids coming out to please the raiders, or the raiders are gone.
They advertised with WS beeing a game for raiders, which means longterm motivation. But they fail to create/release new content since release. I dont blame their commitment or skills to create content (the quality is there). i blame them for investing too much time going free to play and creating shop stuff that I (and others) dont care about to please the publisher/get better numbers. And since they shifted towards the casual crowd and towards a f2p system my fear is that they dont plan on focussing on new raids as hard as they are focussing on decor items/housing/whatever to get more income/please the publisher/keep the servers running. So no regular, new raids. more time grinding -> getting bored -> stop playing.
So lets say you are right and they dont care about the few raiders they lose now (i would not care if 50% of the players from the top guilds stop playing from a business point of view). then in 3 month you have the same discussion with the new players who finish DS and have nothing to do. what then? make an announcement for 1 raid which comes in drop 8 (late summer)?
I just dont see this new system working for raiders. Raids get nerfed and the intervalls between their releases are very long.
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I didnt miss his point. i just dont care about his point and made it clear why i dont care about it.
I was just giving my 2 cents about the current state of WS and that they need regular (every 4-6 month) and challenging (like DS) raids coming out to please the raiders, or the raiders are gone.
They advertised with WS beeing a game for raiders, which means longterm motivation. But they fail to create/release new content since release. I dont blame their commitment or skills to create content (the quality is there). i blame them for investing too much time going free to play and creating shop stuff that I (and others) dont care about to please the publisher/get better numbers. And since they shifted towards the casual crowd and towards a f2p system my fear is that they dont plan on focussing on new raids as hard as they are focussing on decor items/housing/whatever to get more income/please the publisher/keep the servers running. So no regular, new raids. more time grinding -> getting bored -> stop playing.
So lets say you are right and they dont care about the few raiders they lose now (i would not care if 50% of the players from the top guilds stop playing from a business point of view). then in 3 month you have the same discussion with the new players who finish DS and have nothing to do. what then? make an announcement for 1 raid which comes in drop 8 (late summer)?
I just dont see this new system working for raiders. Raids get nerfed and the intervalls between their releases are very long.
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You really don't get it....
 
You are not the priority. Last year you were, now you're not. 
 
It wasn't Carbines decision to go free to play, they are only the developer, it was NCsofts decision. They are the "powers that be" here. It went free to play because it wasn't financially viable as a subscription based game. Nobody works for free, if the game isn't financially viable then they have to make it so. If they hadn't gone free to play then not only wouldn't you have any new raids coming, you would have no game.
 
You may say you don't care about that but the people who have jobs on the line do. They will do what they are told to keep this game in profit.
 
Their focus will be on whoever brings them the most money which is the casual crowd. 
 
To put this into perspective for you, if every single raider was to walk away today, by next week you would all have been replaced. You are a minority. A minority that doesn't bring in as much money as the casual whales. While they don't want to see anyone leave, they need to keep the people with the money happy which isn't you.
 
You really do only have two choices, wait or go. They aren't going to change anything based on any comments you make. They need to keep people happy both in the game and higher up their employment food chain. 
 
This is a business. They can't cater to a minority, it's just not feasible. They don't have the man power to do everything. If you were here last year you'd know they had a lot of staff laid off to keep wages down. A LOT of staff. They can't hire any more because the game was in the red which means their finances were in the red. NC won't pump any more money into a game that has already tanked. This is a game fighting for it's survival and that means keeping their cash cows happy. If that is at the raiders expense then that's is how it is.
 
To put it another way, there are thousands of people playing this game. Only a fraction of those are raiders. If you had to keep a game afloat, what would you do?
 
If you say cater to the raiders then congratulations, you'd have tanked your game.
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You don't have the same discussion because at best 10% of the new players will kill the first boss in DS and about 2% will finish it. Raiders always were and always will be a minority in any game. Carbine could lower the difficulty to the point where the average Joe can stumble through said raids with minimal skill and teamwork required but even then they will be left with a large portion of the population who are not interested in raiding even if every single boss is turned into a giant snarfelynx that barfs platinum and farts legendaries.
 
It's just the reality of things. Investing money into content that is not only the least played but also the least profitable isn't a sound business decision. The only way Carbine can make money from raiding is the sale of service tokens for the expensive gear refinement (slots, runes) but most raiders are dedicated enough to farm platinum for those.
 
I'm not saying raids should just be forgotten or done away with it and I certainly don't want to see them being nerfed (further nerfed in the case of DS) as I respect the people who are comitted and skilled enough to raid in Wildstar, but these raiders have to accept that their preferred content is not going to be the focus of development.
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 even if every single boss is turned into a giant snarfelynx that barfs platinum and farts legendaries.
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 (alot of players left. so what... I dont need to compete with 30+ guilds i want to have fun in the game for myself/my guild)
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I point this out as an example of just how poisonous and destructive the 'hardcore' crowd is to a game. Getting what I want will have the game shut down? Don't care, give it to me.
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well we currently discussing it.... if you like it or not. you answered to my post so we are in discussion :P
yea i know how companies work and what they need to do to make money. 
You can tell that carbine loves Wildstar and that they are proud of their work and going free to play and changing their business model is not something they liked to do but what they had to do.
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Really, there are ways to double-dip with the same content and not have either side (casuals or hardcores) feel cheated.
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i point this out as an example of a person who sees 1 line and is too narrow minded to see the bigger picture.
and since you didnt write more there is nothing i can misinterpret
well played.
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Honestly I see no point in worrying if the game will survive or not, just enjoy yourself and your time in it. Things come and go and all you can do is just give your feedback if you'd like to do so.
 
 
For now *blows into broken harmonica*
Que Sera Sera...
			
				
	Edited November 16, 2015 by Typrop	
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This my PC
 
AMD Piledriver FX-8 Eight Core 8350 Processor
16GB DDR3 1600Mhz Memory
AMD Radeon R9 390 8GB GDDR5
120GB Solid State Drive
2TB SATA Hard Drive
 
Speed test
 
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This is really simple. Why not take the combined yearly cost of however many salaries it takes to make 2 raids a year, split that number into 12 monthly payments, and then divide it evenly amongst the hardcore raiders who absolutely must have regular raids. We'll call it "Subscription: Extreme!" or something like that.
 
Then the rest of us will support the remaining assets that need development by playing house and/ or dress up. It's win-win if you ask me.
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This is really simple. Why not take the combined yearly cost of however many salaries it takes to make 2 raids a year, split that number into 12 monthly payments, and then divide it evenly amongst the hardcore raiders who absolutely must have regular raids. We'll call it "Subscription: Extreme!" or something like that. 
 
Then the rest of us will support the remaining assets that need development by playing house and/ or dress up. It's win-win if you ask me.	
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This is really simple. Why not take the combined yearly cost of however many salaries it takes to make 2 raids a year, split that number into 12 monthly payments, and then divide it evenly amongst the hardcore raiders who absolutely must have regular raids. We'll call it "Subscription: Extreme!" or something like that.
 
Then the rest of us will support the remaining assets that need development by playing house and/ or dress up. It's win-win if you ask me.
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wait what?
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			But...wouldn't that be more complicated and a logistical financing nightmare with variables of how you flag an account doi-...ya know what? no...no...it's too early and it's Monday. I'm going back to my corner and drinking my tea	
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But...wouldn't that be more complicated and a logistical financing nightmare with variables of how you flag an account doi-...ya know what? no...no...it's too early and it's Monday. I'm going back to my corner and drinking my tea
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This is really simple. Why not take the combined yearly cost of however many salaries it takes to make 2 raids a year, split that number into 12 monthly payments, and then divide it evenly amongst the hardcore raiders who absolutely must have regular raids. We'll call it "Subscription: Extreme!" or something like that.
 
Then the rest of us will support the remaining assets that need development by playing house and/ or dress up. It's win-win if you ask me.
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			You seem to think all those people are still playing. :lol:	
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			Good grief you all are a serious lot.	
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Good grief you all are a serious lot.
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			#hardcore broseph! :)	
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I am just caffeine deprived and needed to step away..I sowwy...
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I would have assumed it took more people to make a raid every 6 months 
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This is really simple. Why not take the combined yearly cost of however many salaries it takes to make 2 raids a year, split that number into 12 monthly payments, and then divide it evenly amongst the hardcore raiders who absolutely must have regular raids. We'll call it "Subscription: Extreme!" or something like that.
 
Then the rest of us will support the remaining assets that need development by playing house and/ or dress up. It's win-win if you ask me.
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			If the cash generated by casual players only went to creating casual content, and the cash generated from hardcore raiders only went to creating challenging raid content. There would be no hardcore raiding to speak of and casuals would have a more enjoyable game. 	
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Ha, man, the hate on raiders in these forums is unreal.  There has been practically no new content for raiders (1 boss), and in fact been all for casual players.  Not even PVP players.  I don't see upkeep of the game as new content.  When you have people that play 3+ hours a day playing a game, you would think you would want to develop the content for these players, not the ones that log on for 30 minutes, do their thing than leave.  So with the thought of all the developing costs going to casual content, and that not generating the cash influx to the company due to the casual content, the reason it went to f2p was not because of the money spent developing endgame obviously with there being no new endgame but spending it on the casual content.  
 
And you can say they can afford to lose raiders, well, go ahead, lets see how much of a ghost town thayd becomes.  Lets see how many people don't see orange's or orange boe's or class sets.  Let's see how pve content becomes, will it be the joke of GW2 and without the PVP in this game to hold it up, how fast will it die?  This game was advertised as endgame raiding but yet, there really hasn't been much.  Players see a ghost town in the game, well, why play a game with a ghost town.  
 
Honestly, if WoW didn't have hardcore raiding (heroic+ is harcore imo), they wouldn't be as popular.  You can see it when they release new raids, the population grows than it goes away. 
 
I would love to see the raid community not do anything outside of just raid for a week.  No dungeons, no world bosses, no staying in thayd, and if they do, use the Aurin part of thayd.  No talking in channels, just their guilds.  No class discussions on forums or helping anyone that is not a raider or how to play your class (you do know most of the class guides out there are done by raiders), no testing.
 
And for the few posts about how not alot would see Redmoon atm, well, put it in perspective of a GA raider and ok, I'm behind a complete raid, I need to step it up or even a DS raider, going I want to see the new raid, I need to step up our game to see it.  It's incentive to see the next raid.  
 
@OP, check an addon or could be another program on your computer running.  When my daily virus scanner goes, wildstar goes to a crawl for my computer.  	
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			Hardcore vs casual forum arguing is so WoW. Let's be more WS.	
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Hardcore vs casual forum arguing is so WoW. Let's be more WS.
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			Give Lopp treasure or not to give the Lopp treasure.....	
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It's not really about hope for me, I pretty much only play the game for the housing, and that's been getting better and better so...
 
Hoverboard racing was cool too. I hope they bring that back. I honestly don't care much about dungeons, "end game," the dated gear based PVP system etc. Combat is really fun though, probably the best of any MMO I've played.	
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In all honesty - I was waiting for this to go F2P to get into. I saw a lot of stuff that I was interested in, but I didn't really have the funds to make it happen; having recently been in a series of relocations (From one coast to another, twice! Sheesh).
 
But, I can say that honestly, I'm hooked on it. I played more than I probably should have all of yesterday -- favorite part is (having picked Explorer) I get rewards for going out and seeing where I can jump/drop myself in game, where as in other games it's just a "For S' and Gigs" sort of thing. 
 
One of my highlight moments, I found a secret stash - and was frustratingly trying to get it with just a standard double jump, higher platforms, running versus standing starts; finally I stopped and thought, "hey... can I use 'Gate' to teleport onto it?" and sure enough, I did. I must've /danced for about 30 seconds as I celebrated.
 
I've had my nose in MMO's since SWG, the early days of WoW, then almost every F2P and Big name title that's come out; and this is as close to SWG in player agency, and SWtOR for story, and WoW for Familiarity that seems to blend just right for me. 	
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			I have no hope for humanity, but the pve content is decent here. PvP is like that distant cousin no one talks about...well they to talk about him, it's just that no one cares. I hit level 50, immediately bought 65 blues and hopping into pvp. I was in top 5 every game with a lvl 65 gear set - no runes. I think people just don't try anymore.
			
				
	Edited November 16, 2015 by The Valiant King	
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I am jealous of your internet :D
 
I don't have much lag, it just depends on what I'm trying to do.  As of right now, it is very difficult for me to do events that have large amounts of people in it(world bosses, light spire).  I was just meaning that if I do experience some lag, I won't automatically blame the game for it, because right now my internet speeds are very low :P
 
1.  I am in Wyoming.  OMG soooo beautiful here, I am willing to put up with this internet for it :D
2.  Vyve Broadband, cable.  BUT they will be upgrading sometime in the near future to faster speeds :D
3.  Entity
4.  Honestly have no idea what that is lol.  
 
Thx for all that, but I'm OK with it for now since they are going to be upgrading their speeds here soon.  Not complaining about the lag, I just know that for right now I am going to ride it out until the upgrades, and then if there's still problems I'll go from there :)  Good to know all that for when/if I have to give them any information in the future. 
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Ha, man, the hate on raiders in these forums is unreal.  There has been practically no new content for raiders (1 boss), and in fact been all for casual players.
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I have no hope for humanity, but the pve content is decent here. PvP is like that distant cousin no one talks about...well they to talk about him, it's just that no one cares. I hit level 50, immediately bought 65 blues and hopping into pvp. I was in top 5 every game with a lvl 65 gear set - no runes. I think people just don't try anymore.
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You could argue that aside from the one new boss and actual bug fixes, what work was done on raids have also made them more casual friendly.
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Give Lopp treasure or not to give the Lopp treasure.....
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You were playing against all bots fyi.
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Honestly, if WoW didn't have hardcore raiding (heroic+ is harcore imo), they wouldn't be as popular.  You can see it when they release new raids, the population grows than it goes away. 
 
@OP, check an addon or could be another program on your computer running.  When my daily virus scanner goes, wildstar goes to a crawl for my computer.  
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 When you have people that play 3+ hours a day playing a game, you would think you would want to develop the content for these players, not the ones that log on for 30 minutes, do their thing than leave.  
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Ha, man, the hate on raiders in these forums is unreal.  There has been practically no new content for raiders (1 boss), and in fact been all for casual players.  Not even PVP players.  I don't see upkeep of the game as new content.  When you have people that play 3+ hours a day playing a game, you would think you would want to develop the content for these players, not the ones that log on for 30 minutes, do their thing than leave.  So with the thought of all the developing costs going to casual content, and that not generating the cash influx to the company due to the casual content, the reason it went to f2p was not because of the money spent developing endgame obviously with there being no new endgame but spending it on the casual content.  
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Give Lopp treasure or not to give the Lopp treasure.....
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I understand the approach of f2p and catering to those super casual and making money off the store.  Why I never liked f2p games and I'm giving this game a chance, but to not give the raiders something new to do, yeah I know some have completed DS, but they still want something new to look forward to.  TT said on reddit that new raid tier around New Years.  So do you take that as drop 7 will be end of January, beginning of February or do we have to wait til April/May for the raid tier.  3 more guilds killed Avatus this week and a bunch finished up the pairs to see Avatus.  Depending on pair combos following week, see those guilds downing Avatus.  Just have to hope the guilds currently farming Avatus are still around come Redmoon in May.  But this game has so much content to do that are not raids.  Its insane for a 1 1/2...wow it's been 1 1/2.......to have this much content.  But most games by the end of the 2 years are already talking expansion.  Maybe they are changing their focus to still deliver hard content but a more casual approach.  But Carbine doesn't tell us much at all or what their plans or what they are going for.  Alot of this SoonTM.  And they lose people when they don't tell them whats going on.
 
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If no give lopp treasure, lopp will take with force!
 
/points spear at Orrestes
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Play time doesn't matter as long as they pay. 
 
 
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most casuals will just leave WS once a new game comes out while the raider stays because there is no other game out there and games mmo with hard raids/pve content in general is no longer a big thing.
someone who leaves will not pay anything.
 
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does not matter, because before leaving that casual has likely bought a lot of fluff and another casual will come along to replace them. Raiders farm a lot and play a lot, they likely don't need the subscription, nor are going to buy CREDD and it's questionable will they find fluff important enough to open their wallets. 
 
Less than 10% of all MMOs gamers are raiders. That's why majority of the games now either offer no raids, offer the same gear in raids as outside of it, or have catch up patches were people that never raided can gear up similarly well to a raider.
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 My only hope is that they listen to us to put the stuff we want to dump money into in the cash shop...ive found nothing i really want to spend money on except the deco upgrades and the mount speed stuff.. the community has told carbine what we are willing to drop cash into the shop for.. hopefully its in the works.
 
You can't expect carbine to tell us everything thats going on.. no mmo studio does. Carbine is more vocal than most studios with the community so it is what it is.. They won't feed us lines of reasurance outside of simple phrases.. and its for good reasons why they don't..
 
My main gripe at the moment.. is if carbine has fixes for stuff why wait to put the damn thing out seriously.. there is no excuse why the sunset sky is still bugged or the hollowardrobe not working.. these may not be big issues but these types of bugs do remind the community that shit isn't getting taken care of in a timely manor and that is bad for business... Putting off today what can be done tomarrow doesn't impress customers.
			
				
	Edited November 17, 2015 by Rebel Angel	
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			It wont matter much if the future will casual or hardcore. It will not matter much if the shop has all the stuff people want of just half of them. IMO what will matter is polish. So far every patch since f2p has broken something. Every attempt to fix something is breaking something else. It is a matter of trust that they can deliver and that trust is very hard to earn and very easy to loose. Their performance up to now does not inspire confidence to spend any more into this game; its a wait and see if/when they do their housekeeping.	
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Less than 10% of all MMOs gamers are raiders. That's why majority of the games now either offer no raids, offer the same gear in raids as outside of it, or have catch up patches were people that never raided can gear up similarly well to a raider.
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Idk, I have spent more money on Wildstar since f2p than I did prior to it.  And I'm a raider and I know I'm not the only raider that has done this.  And whoever made it so you can gift some items from the store is a genious.  People paying plat for an item from a player is still revenue to Carbine.  I see alot of mounts that are bought from the store.  And sorry, but people don't earn enough omnibits to purchase a mount in a timely fashion.  And if they made mounts you purchase from the store the option of Account bound and character bound, the amount of mounts would shoot up considerably.  Dyes, being account bound is a big thing they have said they are going to implement.  May even raise the price of dyes in game (I honestly am ok with the rare ones being character bound because when you see that black hole dye or the white one come out, your eyes light up and go payday).  
 
Account bound items people want (parenthesis are my opinion)
-Mounts (Store only)
-Dyes (Some rare ones shouldn't be)
-Raid key (honestly, I don't think this should be account bound though for someone that has a key, the ability to purchase it for plat or EG would be ok)
-Pets (Store only)
-Amps/Abilities (I'm 50/50 on this because some of the stuff are easy to do or require achievements such as all adventures which should be done. And when can those amps/abilites be used for alts because it would be a GIGANTIC advantage to alts in PVP bg's or just leveling in general if they had access to 10 extra amps and 8 more ability points to do as a lower level.  Maybe make it so once you hit 50, an vendor you can purchase them for 1p a piece)
-Reputation (I don't think it should be due to characters are special and so are achievements/reputation.  Also, some way for people to keep doing content.  Maybe a buff for reputation gain).
-Housing (I don't think they should, though the ability to place decor from a main to your alts would be a huge step to make this happen.  Maybe with Neighborhoods, this will happen.  But there are alot of decor that is locked behind reputation/challenges and I think those alts should accomplish those feats in the game.)  
 
I keep mentioning alts, and what should be given to them.  Honestly, if they made all this stuff account bound, there would be challenge on building an alt.  Might as well, just give people free level 50 characters classes they can do.  Like they do on the PTR.  And that would ruin the game.  So alot of account bound items really shouldn't be like housing and reputation and amps/abilities.  The stuff you purchase on the store, I'm ok with having a character only price and a account bound price.  	
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Idk, I have spent more money on Wildstar since f2p than I did prior to it.  And I'm a raider and I know I'm not the only raider that has done this.  And whoever made it so you can gift some items from the store is a genious.  People paying plat for an item from a player is still revenue to Carbine.  I see alot of mounts that are bought from the store.  And sorry, but people don't earn enough omnibits to purchase a mount in a timely fashion.  And if they made mounts you purchase from the store the option of Account bound and character bound, the amount of mounts would shoot up considerably.  Dyes, being account bound is a big thing they have said they are going to implement.  May even raise the price of dyes in game (I honestly am ok with the rare ones being character bound because when you see that black hole dye or the white one come out, your eyes light up and go payday).  
 
Account bound items people want (parenthesis are my opinion)
-Mounts (Store only)
-Dyes (Some rare ones shouldn't be)
-Raid key (honestly, I don't think this should be account bound though for someone that has a key, the ability to purchase it for plat or EG would be ok)
-Pets (Store only)
-Amps/Abilities (I'm 50/50 on this because some of the stuff are easy to do or require achievements such as all adventures which should be done. And when can those amps/abilites be used for alts because it would be a GIGANTIC advantage to alts in PVP bg's or just leveling in general if they had access to 10 extra amps and 8 more ability points to do as a lower level.  Maybe make it so once you hit 50, an vendor you can purchase them for 1p a piece)
-Reputation (I don't think it should be due to characters are special and so are achievements/reputation.  Also, some way for people to keep doing content.  Maybe a buff for reputation gain).
-Housing (I don't think they should, though the ability to place decor from a main to your alts would be a huge step to make this happen.  Maybe with Neighborhoods, this will happen.  But there are alot of decor that is locked behind reputation/challenges and I think those alts should accomplish those feats in the game.)  
 
I keep mentioning alts, and what should be given to them.  Honestly, if they made all this stuff account bound, there would be challenge on building an alt.  Might as well, just give people free level 50 characters classes they can do.  Like they do on the PTR.  And that would ruin the game.  So alot of account bound items really shouldn't be like housing and reputation and amps/abilities.  The stuff you purchase on the store, I'm ok with having a character only price and a account bound price.  
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After the runes changes all but one of my alts has been left to die. 
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