114385-what-happened-to-the-market-and-crafting

== Content ==
			
Let me just start by saying I've been away for awhile and returned to Guildwars 2 for various reasons.
 
On the Evindra server I was one of the first Emberine Crafters on the server, I filled out almost everything in the Adventus Trees before I left.  While I've left Wildstar for an extended period and decided to move on while drop 3 is still in limbo (I still plan on returning just to see what happens in the lightspire in drop 3 and may possibly play Wildstar as a side game to Guildwars 2 while my annual subscription remains active).
 
I figured I'd maybe put 5-15 mins into the game just to do the daily crafting quest and crafting dailies to keep current.  I heard some news that some new CW-6 recipies were coming out.
 
So I log into Evindra and scan the market to see what my competition looks like and how far behind I was.  There are literally NO adventus or even epochos weapons on the market AT ALL.  I wondered why.  I mean some explanations could include that people are already geared, and don't buy.
 
I find this disconcerning because it means no new players are entering the game and there is no healthy market for new 50s.  Considering how powerful Adventus 4 weapons are, I don't see why you wouldn't start with one.  This is considering how affordable they are in relation to their power level (even BIS in some cases because the rune patch is not live).
 
I've never seen a market so barren.  I mean it would like logging into the black lion trader on Guildwars 2 and seeing only 10 exotic weapons listed for endgame players.  This to me is not a good sign of health at all.
 
I was hoping things would be different, that crafting would actualy mean something.  Even worse, I hear rumors that the next CW6 level of crafting would be raid mats only.  This effectively screws over anyone trying to be competitive for the entry gear level.  This would mean that the "Raid or Die" mantra was fully adopted and that there is no room for anything else.
 
Not sure what to think.  I am just disappointed things have gotten so far gone that there isn't even anyone left to sell a brownie to.
 
I still plan on giving Drop 3 a shot, even if my stay is only temporary.  I do feel obligated to see the story through to the end.  However, this doesn't make my most recent visit to the game after my break any less depressing.
 
For Carbine, I really hope Drop 3 and megaserver works out.  With what happened, I don't think Wildstar will ever be my home or main game -but if the quality is good I will continue to play it as a diversion from my main MMO (for housing if anything).
 
I think some real heart and soul needs to be put into this next drop (like seriously, a Realm Reborn level of effort).  Drop 3 feels like it really will be the second launch of Wildstar, and if it goes badly... well I won't go there.
 
I do feel for you guys and hope that somehow you find whatever it is your after.  This goes for players and developers alike.	
----
			Free transfers put a big dent into the AH on Evindra. Much healthier markets on more populated servers, such as Stormtalon for PvE and Pergo for PvP.	
----
			
I know I don't buy Adventus/Epochos gear because I just gave a call to someone who made it directly.  Honestly, I wouldn't have bought it from the AH anyway if I couldn't get it cheap.  Drop 3 could drop next week or next month; whenever it does, we'll have a whole new gear progression meant to make the stat-stacked DPS gear a lot less desirable.
 
As in a lot of areas of the game, a lot of people are holding and waiting to see what happens.	
----
			A large portion of Evindra had a hissy fit when megaservers were announced.	
----
			Pretty much what they all already said. With megaservers coming soon-ish and free transfers offered, most players have all congregated on Pergo (PvP) and Stormtalon (PvE) while we wait. Also, I almost never look at the AH for gear, unless I'm looking for pieces for costumes. I have a friend I go to who has every craft save Technologist maxed, and I know its the same for other players; they either craft their own stuff, have a friend/guildie who can, or are saving their mats for the new stuff.	
----
			Even on Ascendancy EU, which is maybe the biggest PvE server on Eu, the market is barren on some items. There's usually around 6-10 bad CW-4 Heavy guns for sale as an example. Almost all of the craftable items on AH are byproducts of someone trying to fish for that epic perfect 4-slot item and dumping the rest to cover his costs or maybe make a small profit. Most active people that look for items probably just use their guild crafter, friend crafter or do it by themself. Having dual gather or at least survivalist lets you have easy income with thicket plot and occasional gathering.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Even on Ascendancy EU, which is maybe the biggest PvE server on Eu, the market is barren on some items. There's usually around 6-10 bad CW-4 Heavy guns for sale as an example. Almost all of the craftable items on AH are byproducts of someone trying to fish for that epic perfect 4-slot item and dumping the rest to cover his costs or maybe make a small profit. Most active people that look for items probably just use their guild crafter, friend crafter or do it by themself. Having dual gather or at least survivalist lets you have easy income with thicket plot and occasional gathering.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
By the time you've taken all that in, tell me : why would anyone sell this stuff on the AH? Nobody will pay for that item at a price you can say that has 'covered' your costings to create it and generate profit.
----
			A good market economy (and therefore crafting) requires a critical mass of buyers and sellers - simples!	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Covering your costs as in "I was trying to craft these 4 slot Adventus heavy shoulders for me to use" and then dumping the decent byproducts to AH in the hopes that someone buys them at some price that lets you cover some of the costs that you spent trying to craft the item for yourself or for a guildie/friend. You will very likely end up salvaging most of them and hoping for good fragments or signs.
 
I've made about 60~80p or so as byproducts of my crafts but that's with a few lucky perfect Items that I crafted. Crafting in general for mosts slots is a net loss unless you get that perfect proc. Adventus CW-4 Heavy gun with 2 fire/fusion slots at the moment is 1-2p max and rolling just one of those already needs quite a few crafts indeed. There's a few specific slots where you can maybe make a profit for profits sake but even that is pretty shaky and entirely RNG dependant.
 
The RNG of craft is pretty insane. I've made about 300-500 boots never to get a 2 slot fire/fusion with the dasher special as an example. I've seen exactly one 3 slot one.
----
			Hate to be a doomsayer but come the next drop crafting will likely be taking a massive hit.With slot limitations and new stat min/max values crafted gear has become pretty much barely on par with adventure gear and definitely inferior to dungeon gear.I say this after testing out crafting a lot on the PTRthe new archivos stuff does require phage clusters at least to learn, hopefully they are treated like eldan data fragments.It is about on par with the lowest tier of GA gear as well so easily beaten by anyone actually doing GA, I guess it's meant as a resource for guilds selling to non-raiders to buy consumables with or something.On a positive note, 125 main stat 4 slot gear will be a limited commodity of great value come next drop so stock up now and sit on it	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Hate to be a doomsayer but come the next drop crafting will likely be taking a massive hit.
 
With slot limitations and new stat min/max values crafted gear has become pretty much barely on par with adventure gear and definitely inferior to dungeon gear.
I say this after testing out crafting a lot on the PTR
 
the new archivos stuff does require phage clusters at least to learn, hopefully they are treated like eldan data fragments.
It is about on par with the lowest tier of GA gear as well so easily beaten by anyone actually doing GA, I guess it's meant as a resource for guilds selling to non-raiders to buy consumables with or something.
 
On a positive note, 125 main stat 4 slot gear will be a limited commodity of great value come next drop so stock up now and sit on it
----
			What's the most polite way of saying "you are part of the problem that you are complaining about?"  If you care about the market and the health of the game... um.. maybe help out by playing it with some level of dedication.  5-15 minutes a day and "may possibly" be a side-game to GW2?  Come back when you're actually contributing to the community and the game as a whole and I'll happily discuss anything you want in earnest.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What's the most polite way of saying "you are part of the problem that you are complaining about?"  If you care about the market and the health of the game... um.. maybe help out by playing it with some level of dedication.  5-15 minutes a day and "may possibly" be a side-game to GW2?  Come back when you're actually contributing to the community and the game as a whole and I'll happily discuss anything you want in earnest.
----
			
Alright,
 
I agree that markets are not as healthy as we lost a lot of people. Maybe the only two healthy ones are Pergo and Stormtalon now. Megaservers should help with that.
I agree with "being the change you want to see" and all it's arguments. Imukai put it very clearly, no need to go further into it.
 
But yes, crafting will take a big hit next drop. With the information I have right now, there are no "ifs" or "buts". While I agree that right now crafting does not make people want to run dungeons and adventures, making itself irrelevant isn't the answer I was looking for.
 
I still have some questions myself about the system (like, what is the difference between adventus and epochos now?Stat max values?), but it's pretty clear that crafting is going to the way of "catching up" gearing instead of alternate end game gearing method, making it imo, in the big picture, irrelevant. No crafting gear will be on par with droped gear of the same ilevel/level/content. Even if you perfectly balance stats, max values and number of runeslots will make sure that the droped gear is better (exceptions will always happen, but the generalization works for the majority of the cases). That will be by design.
 
That does not have to be the case. You can have bosses droping crafting items so that you can craft on par gear, but then, for that to work, droped items would have to have very good stat distribution.
 
Anyways, I like the game, am sticking with it, but dislike the solution they came up with to make dungeons and adventures worth running. I like my crafting and the effort/time I put into it. It just won't have any impact after the changes, imo.	
----
			
I sell lower-level armor on the AH on Evindra but I don't bother trying to sell Epochos/Adventus - because everyone who wants it, always wants it done in a specific way.  I'm not psychic enough to do that on the AH.
 
Besides, most of the time I don't charge people if they bring me the cores, anyway.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
(...)I still have some questions myself about the system (like, what is the difference between adventus and epochos now?Stat max values?(...)
----
			
Err, GW2 is 'megaserver' 1 AH/CX for ALL servers/players.
 
Tho I will admit, there's less than 1 page of decor on my server. 
What's even worse, is the 'search'... I put in 'plush' and it says 'too many items to display' ... there was 3 on... 
 
Also architect sucks. Tree's/fence/grass/etc should be on CX. There's a sexy preview window on crate, but nothing on AH to look at items...
 
While were talking about GW2 AH... It was set up terribad!
You can AH from anywhere, so many people do it mid dungeon to clean bag space, flooding the market with stupidly cheap crap.
There's a 5% listing fee, then a extra 10% sales fee. They changed it to 'first in first out' rather than 'last in first out stacks' so everyone wants to undercut you by 1 copper. This combined with the 5% listing fee means selling anything 'expensive' is realllllly bad. (E.g. when you add up the 5% of say a 2,000 gold legendary 3 times a day to undercut your compertion... adds up pretty quick)
 
I'll also point out, this system and morons have made it much more viable to just farm mats, sell them, and get the finished crafted item back CHEAPER.
There exotic crafting that they said would add high level craters something something to sell... No it just flooded the market with 'cheaper than mats' exotics and all the 500 level items are account bound. (Except the insigs, but that really didn't make a good market)	
----