Report 272

Report #272
Skillset: Axelord Skill: Knockdown
 Org: Ebonguard Status: Completed Oct 2009
Furies' Decision:
Knockdown will give balance loss.
Problem: Knockdown (both Axelord and Bonecrusher versions) have an issue in that
they have a very lengthy stun time. This stun time used to be smaller, but was
extended in the past by Envoys so that the Axelord could knock someone down on
one combo and still have them prone on the second combo (otherwise, the
knockdown serves no purpose whatsoever, if they're standing up again before you
can take advantage of it). The problem is that stun is a massively debilitating
affect which does far more than just prevent standing. It also prevents
sipping, sparkling, reading scrolls, or curing / doing anything at all. This
leads to the so-called "double tap" where you knockdown someone and then whack
them somewhere else, doing 2x the damage, wounding, and afflictions (because
you're knocking through 2 full attack combos before they are even able to cure).
This leads to the "stun train" effect (knockdown someone, whack them somewhere
else, by the time you have balance back their stun immunity has already worn off
and you're able to just do it again). This is especially powerful when combined
with a bonecrusher's crush (bypass parry/stance) on the leg, every other combo.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Replace the stun effect with another effect that
 prevents standing for the same amount of time (acts
 like stun in terms of being completely uncureable, so
 it's not another "affliction" that has to be coded
 into a system's curing capability), but wears off in
 the same time as the current stun-duration for this
 ability, and which also has a similar "immunity"
 period at the end (so you can't just keep someone
 from standing up permanently by triggering them
 standing up to knockdown again).
Player Comments:
---[Nienla on 9/30 @ 19:30 writes]:
Sounds good and well needed. I support
---[Evaine on 10/2 @ 01:59 writes]:
Sounds good. I support this change
---[Akui on 10/2 @ 14:24 writes]:
Agree with this report.
---[Lendren on 10/2 @ 20:27 writes]:
So it would be similar in both mechanic and purpose to earache, but for
knockdown? That makes sense.
---[Llandros on 10/4 @ 19:33 writes]:
How would this affect them as far as building wounds? Many that i spoke to were
concerned about this
---[Xenthos on 10/4 @ 20:44 writes]:
It would make them have to build wounds exactly the same as Pureblade and
Blademaster, without being able to stack on 2x the wounds, damage, and
afflictions with no curing in between. Which is the main problem, here.
---[Mirami on 10/13 @ 04:21 writes]:
Knockdown blocks stancing, right? So they'd still be able to build wounds, they
just wouldn't have the 'double-tap' that there is now that eliminates all curing
whatsoever.
---[Xenthos on 10/13 @ 22:06 writes]:
You cannot stance when prone, that is correct.
---[Ceren on 10/15 @ 14:59 writes]:
Agree, but I don't think we need to nerf this hard or we'll just tip the scales
too far to the BM/PB side. The stun can be replaced with something other than an
effect that only prevents standing. For BC I'd suggest replacing the stun with
bal loss. Since they already have wind it wouldn't mess things up much for
Necromancers (Wind is a 3s balance loss that stacks slightly with itself;
knockdown would be a 2 second balance loss that doesn't stack at all with
itself). AL, on the other hand, don't already have access to a bal loss wound,
so I'd suggest a 1 second stun + disrupt (which takes 2 seconds to concentrate
from). That'd leave them with the same 3 seconds of hindering without the double
tap, and also opens up possibilites of using ringingears confusion to prevent
concentrate and that sort of thing.
---[Ilyarin on 10/17 @ 12:42 writes]:
Problem with a 2s balance loss is that it would be instantly reapplicable,
unless you're intending to suggest some sort of "balance loss immunity"? Without
that, it would almost as debilitating as stun, but in a slightly different way.
I don't really like the concept of adding more "immunities" though, really. It
seems like we could end up heading towards everything having a cool down period.
I do think that the problem raised here needs addressing, but I'm not a fan of
the way it's being done (although I can't think of something more suitable). I
guess, in lieu of something else, a stand block would be ok.
---[Ceren on 10/17 @ 17:28 writes]:
No, knockdown won't fire if you're already prone