126059-ncsoft-q1-2015-report-wildstar-continues-downward

== Content ==
			
Tl;dr
NCsoft went down.
Wildstar went down harder. 
 
 
Quick Looks:
http://i.imgur.com/QRScRh0.png
http://i.imgur.com/ZPDKW2t.png
 
 
Official Report :
http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/quarterly.aspx
 
 
Well, what now?
 
Discuss. 	
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Lol, just posted the same thing! Well it is worrisome indeed, but nothing we can do about... I am hoping for some statement from NCSoft/Carbine about this...
 
Anything at all would be better than silence this time around, because, clearly, Drop 4 and 5 did not help the game at all... Nor did the box promotion.	
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Lol, just posted the same thing! Well it is worrisome indeed, but nothing we can do about... I am hoping for some statement from NCSoft/Carbine about this...
 
Anything at all would be better than silence this time around, because, clearly, Drop 4 and 5 did not help the game at all... Nor did the box promotion.
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			Q4 is the biggest shopping season out of any quarter. Q1 tends to be the least busy do to the hangover from Q4. Don't know enough about $ to tell where they are at but these are normal market trends.	
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			At this point, with these numbers, I don't give two shits about F2P arguments anymore.  I'm worried for the game.	
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At this point, with these numbers, I don't give two shits about F2P arguments anymore.  I'm worried for the game.
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I will guess that there'll be a push for (HOPEFULLY) B2P business model sometime for Wildstar's anniversary (coming up here the 3rd of June). 
 
Now, I've always been a supporter of Subscription based games. Any products you don't pay for, you're the product. Well, it's just not going to work out with this kind of trend and the last outcome I'd ever want to see regardless of any business model if Wildstar shutting down. That's the absolute worst scenario and it's getting dangerously close to reality. 
 
Please bare no ill towards me. I want nothing better for the game, but here's the fact and reality. 	
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			Nvm, figured out. 	
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At this point, with these numbers, I don't give two shits about F2P arguments anymore.  I'm worried for the game.
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All the other NCsoft games shows stability or a small increased of growth.
 
Wildstar just went exponentially in half.  :(
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So, I'll just repost what I said from Reddit:
 
The only argument I have against payment model change is the only one I've had: I don't want to see a rich, beautiful game like this having to live off of cash shop fluff items, nor do I want to see development shifted to making those things as a lifeline.
 
But, in defeat, I recognize that I really don't have much of an argument anymore. Here's hoping Nexus survives.
 
Y'all can 'I told you so' at me all you like now.  I was just hoping it wouldn't come to it.	
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So, I'll just repost what I said from Reddit:
 
The only argument I have against payment model change is the only one I've had: I don't want to see a rich, beautiful game like this having to live off of cash shop fluff items, nor do I want to see development shifted to making those things as a lifeline.
 
But, in defeat, I recognize that I really don't have much of an argument anymore. Here's hoping Nexus survives.
 
Y'all can 'I told you so' at me all you like now.  I was just hoping it wouldn't come to it.
 
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How do CREDD sales factor into the second link? I'm guessing it's just part of net profit for the first one.
 
I also wonder, if a large percent of players bought CREDD back in Q3/14, and just started using it during Q1/15, would that affect these charts?
 
The game has seemed more active to me since Drop 4, so I'm surprised by the drop in profits. I suspect CREDD and/or the 10 day trials.	
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How do CREDD sales factor into the second link? I'm guessing it's just part of net profit for the first one.
 
I also wonder, if a large percent of players bought CREDD back in Q3/14, and just started using it during Q1/15, would that affect these charts?
 
The game has seemed more active to me since Drop 4, so I'm surprised by the drop in profits. I suspect CREDD and/or the 10 day trials.
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When was the cutoff date to determine the report?  We've all noticed an increase in population, where the game has been significantly down in the dumps.  I don't think anyone actually thought that players were hiding somewhere.
 
As far as I'm concerned, I've noticed a considerable upswing of players.  As long as Wildstar can make some kind of PvP patch that doesn't suck in the next 3 months, we could hopefully pick up all of the Warcraft deserters and have a real MMO on our hands.
 
Maybe	
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So, I'll just repost what I said from Reddit:
 
The only argument I have against payment model change is the only one I've had: I don't want to see a rich, beautiful game like this having to live off of cash shop fluff items, nor do I want to see development shifted to making those things as a lifeline.
 
But, in defeat, I recognize that I really don't have much of an argument anymore. Here's hoping Nexus survives.
 
Y'all can 'I told you so' at me all you like now.  I was just hoping it wouldn't come to it.
 
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Copy paste from my previous. I think the biggest problem for WildStar is the Box price, here's my previous post about a business model change.
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I'm going to jump in and say there's no need for F2P or B2P when it comes to WildStar because of a particular reason.
the CREDD system.
The CREDD system works, and it was copied by WoW, as it was Copied from EVE.
WildStar doesn't need to change business model, it needs more players.
 
If it were up to me, my design would be this
"WildStar is now free for 15 days!" (Remove the requirement to buy a box/digital copy).
"WildStar now no longer requires a purchase, only a subscription!" 15$
"But don't worry about having to maintain that subscription Cupcake, you can purchase in game time with gold by buying CREDD! (Post NPC Screenshot of CREDD market)"
"It's practically Free to play!"
"Got a friend that wants to play with you? Let them get a free account, and at the end of 15 days, here's where the awesome CREDD part comes in. We allow gifting and sharing of CREDD to time lasped accounts."
"So grab some CREDD, or Grab some gold, forget that credit card, and get your ass to Nexus!"
 
 
In technical terminology.
1. Remove the box price. 15 day trial
2. Maintain the 15$ subscription based model, continue to sell CREDD at 20$ USD
3. Put the "Purchase Deluxe Edition" upgrade in the shop, and have a real money in-game shop for CREDD, Account Services and Deluxe Edition upgrade only.
Then
4. ADVERTISE THE BLOODY HELL OUT OF WIDLSTAR WITH THIS CHANGE SAYING THE GAME IS NOW FREE TO TRY, AND THERE IS NO REQUIRED PURCHASE TO PLAY THE GAME.
 
That's my suggestion Carbine.
You know what other game does this? Eve Online. The same game that WildStar got the idea for CREDD from.
 
It's really that simple Carbine
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At this point I'm rather worried about WildStar.	
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Q4 is the biggest shopping season out of any quarter. Q1 tends to be the least busy do to the hangover from Q4. Don't know enough about $ to tell where they are at but these are normal market trends.
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What seems to be a influx might as well not really be one. Letting subscriptions collapse, 10 day trials who doesn't buy the game afterwards etc. 
Personally I've seen more players than Q4, but I guess people simply got a reason to get out of their instanced house. 
 
It's time to not just dismiss a business model change. I think we all need a serious discussion. If those numbers don't scare you, I honestly don't know what would. 	
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Aaaand I give up.
 
This game now needs f2p to survive, I get that it will lose its reputation as a p2p mmo and will be labelled a failure forever. But my hopes of this game being one of the only mmos to save itself without f2p or b2p...have been stepped on..
 
The worst part is...Carbine tried.
 
They gave it everything they had...as much content as possible and did what they could to please US.
 
but it didn't work. Sadly, it just didn't work.
 
This is honestly heart breaking...after all we fought for.
 
Shouldn't of waited with that marketing push carbine.	
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...and here I was feeling hopeful with the new player guild I've created...
 
Carbine, can you please give us at least some info? We're worried about the game and need a bit of light in this darkness.	
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The problem is that WildStar fared poorly in Q4 2014, and hopes were that the release of Drop 4 would boost revenue for WildStar in Q1 2015. :(
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			My biggest concern was when frost said they would shut the game down before going f2p.. i know he isn't a part of wildstar anymore except in spirit but i wonder how much carbine still holds that motto...	
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			Carbine needs to do a very frank State of the Game video/live stream soon. If there was ever a time for transparency it would be now.	
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Shouldn't of waited with that marketing push carbine.
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In technical terminology.
1. Remove the box price. 15 day trial
2. Maintain the 15$ subscription based model, continue to sell CREDD at 20$ USD
3. Put the "Purchase Deluxe Edition" upgrade in the shop, and have a real money in-game shop for CREDD, Account Services and Deluxe Edition upgrade only.
Then
4. ADVERTISE THE BLOODY HELL OUT OF WIDLSTAR WITH THIS CHANGE SAYING THE GAME IS NOW FREE TO TRY, AND THERE IS NO REQUIRED PURCHASE TO PLAY THE GAME.
 
That's my suggestion Carbine.
You know what other game does this? Eve Online. The same game that WildStar got the idea for CREDD from.
 
It's really that simple Carbine
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At this point I'm rather worried about WildStar.
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My biggest concern was when frost said they would shut the game down before going f2p.. i know he isn't a part of wildstar anymore except in spirit but i wonder how much carbine still holds that motto...
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...and here I was feeling hopeful with the new player guild I've created...
 
Carbine, can you please give us at least some info? We're worried about the game and need a bit of light in this darkness.
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			We can discuss business models until we are blue in the face, but that's all it will be. It's not up to us what happens. NcSoft and Carbine will be who discuss the matter. I'm sure these numbers have been monitored through out the quarter. If I recall there were a few staff members that recently went to Korea for meetings. I'm hoping wildstar gets at least the rest of this year to show what it's made of. I think the ship started to right itself with this latest patch and if that trend continues we might be fine.I'm really digging the game again after a few months of not being interested. I hope it stays the way it is but if not, it is what it is. I'll hang around until it's not fun anymore and I hope everyone does the same. Have some faith in this dark hour, but also be ready for the worst. 	
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			I am just so sad right now :(	
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I am just so sad right now :(
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I never said Q4 was great. The OP was worded different before edited and I just pointed out that Q4 is always greater than Q1. I'm sure a B2P model is coming. It would be silly not to at this point. With other games having success there. I'd welcome it at this point. If Wildstar goes under, I'd stop playing games for a while. Maybe a little Street Fighter 5 but I would need to look for another hobby.
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Considering most of the hits you get off google atm are rumors of it going f2p and other negative stuff, there's probably a reason why wildstar is failing. No one can see the diamond in all the coal.
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 If I recall there were a few staff members that recently went to Korea for meetings. I'm hoping wildstar gets at least the rest of this year to show what it's made of.
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Considering most of the hits you get off google atm are rumors of it going f2p and other negative stuff, there's probably a reason why wildstar is failing. No one can see the diamond in all the coal.
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I remember that Cougar said on twitter that he was at HQ in Korea for a week. That might have been about the upcoming maintenance though since that's his thing here at Carbine.
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This is what I find curious. I can quite understand the game not being to everyone's taste, but take a look around online, there are people who seem to want it to fail, and have done for a while. I'm not really sure why anyone would want that, but there we are. Bitterness and cynicism are ugly, and whilst the game is struggling and they may get their wish, I'll never really understand why that could ever be a good thing.
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spewing fact-less ideas here:
 
I wonder how many are fans of other games who felt threatened by wildstar, and decided to drag the game down with rumors and hatred until it finally keeled over?
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That's actually worrisome.  Cougar's the server guy, and...  Well, hopefully it wasn't at all related to changing how the servers are set up currently.
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Right now I feel like the game is nudging me toward CREDD purchases already (though not necessarily by design). Shiphand grinding for gold was decent before, but they're pretty stale now, and the coolest stuff I can get without a grind is on the auction house. So...
 
Here's my request for F2P, if it happens: I've aged and somehow got a decent paying job. It's now more effective for me to buy from a cash shop than grind content I don't like. And because decor is not part of any competitive or gameplay related angle for most players, I have no 'ethical' problem with it. So I'm willing to buy from your cash shop.
 
Let's talk cost. Right now Techno-Phage decor is going for about $7-15. You want to get at least $15 a month from me. I need a lot of decor. You have a lot of decor.
 
Sell me your decor, with a roughly $1 cap on all basic items, $2 cap on all interactive items, $5-10 cap on possible future animated items like NPCs or housing pets.
 
I won't spend $15 a month. I'll spend $40 a month, and I'll have more fun than spending my free time grinding dailies, hawking the auction house, or searching for architects. :P
 
 
 
 	
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This is what I find curious. I can quite understand the game not being to everyone's taste, but take a look around online, there are people who seem to want it to fail, and have done for a while. I'm not really sure why anyone would want that, but there we are. Bitterness and cynicism are ugly, and whilst the game is struggling and they may get their wish, I'll never really understand why that could ever be a good thing.
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This is what I find curious. I can quite understand the game not being to everyone's taste, but take a look around online, there are people who seem to want it to fail, and have done for a while. I'm not really sure why anyone would want that, but there we are. Bitterness and cynicism are ugly, and whilst the game is struggling and they may get their wish, I'll never really understand why that could ever be a good thing.
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Some people blamed Wildstar for blocking Blade & Soul NA. 
 
The flame wars of dragging this game down and people followed like sheepies, so NCsoft can turn to Blade & Soul as an alternative.
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			im probably misunderstanding this. but game sales are new game purchases? or does that include subscriptions/credd as well?	
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im probably misunderstanding this. but game sales are new game purchases? or does that include subscriptions/credd as well?
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im probably misunderstanding this. but game sales are new game purchases? or does that include subscriptions/credd as well?
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That's actually worrisome.  Cougar's the server guy, and...  Well, hopefully it wasn't at all related to changing how the servers are set up currently.
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You people really need to stop blaming others for Wildstar's failure. The reason Wildstar got hate was because the game just wasn't finished at launch and Carbine (or at least some of their most seen people) had a really arrogant attitude going on. When you can't make good on your arrogant claims people are going to point and laugh at you.
 
That being said, the hate is not the reason for these catastrophic revenue reports. The reason for that is Carbine, pure and simple. It's not NCSoft for pushing the game to release too soon, it's not the playerbase for not being good enough, it's just Carbine for making mistake after mistake after mistake.
 
 
They totally alienated the PvP audience with their ridiculous PvP systems that they just kept screwing up (most notably Drop 2), with their really slow response to the PvP-server exodus and with the total lack of proper PvP updates and fixes.
 
They totally alienated the casual audience by not having any content with proper rewards and incentives for them at launch and not for many, many months after that. 
 
And they totally alienated the hardcore audience by having really buggy dungeons and most of all really buggy(/overtuned) raids that got fixed way, way too late.
 
There's also the issue of the horrible performance which drove lots of people off, and of course the fact that having a sub already means a smaller playerbase who is also more critical (they want their money's worth).
 
What's left is a handful of people from each group who could see past all those flaws and mistakes, but that group is not big enough to get this game going. Carbine has just been too slow and too incompetent with the way they've handled this game and not released enough quality and quantity content to make people think buying this game and paying the sub is worth it, and it has cost them.	
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I'd attribute that more to the fact that B&S was marketed to NA audiences within hours of the CoH sunset announcement.  (I actually have the emails, they're literally within hours of each other.)  That's my view though, probably not accurate.
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How about it was to give his expertise for the game to launch in Asia ?
 
 
 
 
 
Also about those reports, if it's Q1 it means Jan-Feb-Mar so it doesn't include the mystery-box snarflynx/kitty hoverboard craze, nor does it represent anything about last drop, and also drop 4 was what mid feb or so ? so Q1 is the transition between drop 3 and drop 4 and right after winter holydays, and "started" like 1 month and a half after WoD's launch ? 
 
So yeah, recall what was the population at the beginning of 2015 and what it is now...
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How about it was to give his expertise for the game to launch in Asia ?
 
 
 
 
 
Also about those reports, if it's Q1 it means Jan-Feb-Mar so it doesn't include the mystery-box snarflynx/kitty hoverboard craze, nor does it represent anything about last drop, and also drop 4 was what mid feb or so ? so Q1 is the transition between drop 3 and drop 4 and right after winter holydays, and "started" like 1 month and a half after WoD's launch ? 
 
So yeah, recall what was the population at the beginning of 2015 and what it is now...
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Hey look : https://twitter.com/WildStar/status/598302268623052800 !
1 minute old, just fresh...
 
Maybe it's the announcement for the next expansion  :) !	
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Until the announcement is made I'll keep up hope. Until the servers go down, I'll keep rooting for this game. And until we know anything definitive, I will recommend this game to anyone and everyone.
 
I know things aren't looking great, but I'll stay upbeat til the plug is pulled.	
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Hey look : https://twitter.com/WildStar/status/598302268623052800 !
1 minute old, just fresh...
 
Maybe it's the announcement for the next expansion  :) !
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Hey look : https://twitter.com/WildStar/status/598302268623052800 !
1 minute old, just fresh...
 
Maybe it's the announcement for the next expansion  :) !
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Never gonna give you upNever gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cryNever gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you
 
I have found a new love for the game so the above is what I have to say for the time being. ^_^	
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Lol, just posted the same thing! Well it is worrisome indeed, but nothing we can do about... I am hoping for some statement from NCSoft/Carbine about this...
 
Anything at all would be better than silence this time around, because, clearly, Drop 4 and 5 did not help the game at all... Nor did the box promotion.
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I'd say it's an anniversary event, probably with a promo (refer a friend, extended trial, free time for existing accounts)
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spewing fact-less ideas here:
 
I wonder how many are fans of other games who felt threatened by wildstar, and decided to drag the game down with rumors and hatred until it finally keeled over?
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			Didn't want to say told you so, but I told you so. And now I'm sad.  :(	
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We likely won't see much right now.  An immediate response won't ever be on a studio's to-do list.  The report was released after most folks have probably gone home and the Community/PR team will need to figure out the best way to post without accidentally lying, giving false hope or not having all their information in the right place... if they post at all.  They may not be allowed to talk about it publicly.
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@ Greenkitten, we know, well I know and I would guess others do to. I just don't see the need to rub Carbines face in it anymore than I, and others already have in the past.
 
I think by now, Carbine knows all the mistakes. no point in beating that horse further.	
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Sad to see those numbers, although they are counterintuitive to the influx of players in game which is odd (guild is maxed out now). However, they are what they are, it would be nice to see how they break down in more detail but I highly doubt that would be a possibility.
 
Nothing to do but keep on pushing forward, I guess its an opportunity for NcSoft to show they really stand by the game (and the WS community) and gain some much needed good faith. However, business is businesses and we all understand that.
 
Can only trust on what I know as fact, that WildStar is a quality MMO and a quality product. We will see how all parties involved react, that will tell us much. Time will eventually give us all the answers.	
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Marketing Strategy:  let game dip to record low numbers before 2nd quarter
 
Q2:  hit huge marketing push with drops, cheap box, big promotion
 
Percentage Increase Over Last Quarter will be Tremendous!	
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In all honesty I'm not surprised.
 
A little disappointed, but carbine brought this on themselves. The pvp servers were a massive issue last quarter and it drove a lot of people to stop playing.	
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Percentage Increase Over Last Quarter will be Tremendous!
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sales include everything, sorry to stick a pin in your bubble of hope
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you edited your post just to add salt?
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			This + 17 hour "account maintenance" tomorrow with a bonus "There may be even a little something extra to follow!" has me worried more than words can even say.	
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This + 17 hour "account maintenance" tomorrow with a bonus "There may be even a little something extra to follow!" has me worried more than words can even say.
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This + 17 hour "account maintenance" tomorrow with a bonus "There may be even a little something extra to follow!" has me worried more than words can even say.
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f2p announcement!
 
or account bound dyes!  Ill take either one!
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It's been a bad year for the mmo player. Mostly, I think it comes down to too many launching at once, many of which were a let down. Warcraft's All-Orcs-All-The-Time expansion drove away 2.8-ish million subscribers this past quarter. Elder Scrolls was just a travesty. Archeage... I played that for a few months, and to get full use of all the game's features (housing, tradeskills, even dungeons and raids) it cost me about $40 a month. "Free to Play" my rear. Bleh....  Final Fantasy re-launched itself, but as pretty as it looks, it just feels stiff and uninspired.
 
Then there's Wildstar. This beautiful, unnoticed diamond in the rough. There's continuing lore for all the races. The housing is unparalleled. The devs hold livestreams, put out videos, and show off the work of their players. I could go on for paragraphs of what this game has that others don't, but it'll probably get brushed off by most. 
 
I played the first few months, but had to stop because of real life; My now ex-gf hated any time I spent on the computer, and my father passed away just a few weeks ago. But I'm back and I still love this game. The in-game community is helpful and super friendly. I've convinced two friends that were disgruntled with warcraft to hop on board and they're loving it too. Plus, I have two more boxes shipping across the country to other friends; I'm putting my own money on the line to show them how great this game is. Lastly, I'm starting to stream my gameplay in the hopes that others will see it ( http://www.twitch.tv/ragingfurball if anybody here cares).
 
Yeah, being a doom sayer seems to be the hip thing these days. I see it all the time in every game forum I go to. Every facebook post put out by a game is plagued with people crying 'dead game' or 'free to play'. Personally, I think Wildstar is doing everything right. It just needs more people going out and preaching the word. Right now there's too many badly-made or cash-grab games out there, and the masses need a beacon.	
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I'll take the second, and a dev-to-community discussion about the first one.
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I really can't fathom these numbers, because they are SO contrary to the experience I've had in-game since pretty much drop 4 onward. I don't get it. 
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			I really can't fathom these numbers, because they are SO contrary to the experience I've had in-game since pretty much drop 4 onward. I don't get it. 	
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Well for example, I just came back on the 10 day trial. I also still have 3 CREDD I saved up from last summer before I quit previously. I imagine I'm not alone in this situation. (Either trial or utilizing previously purchased CREDD)
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			If I recall this recent explosion has been much bigger with drop 5, and as mentioned before neither the box promo nor drop 5 are included in the quarterly report?	
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Ah, that could be true - people's stockpiled CREDD dragging current income down? I dunno.
 
I do know that leveling zones went from being ghost towns in January to seeing 5+ people around even in the high level areas come February. Low level dungeon queues were still hard to come by, but all it took was asking in zone or other chat channels to pull together a group of same-level folks. Level-cap queues improved significantly in both PvE and PvP. Guild rosters exploded. I'm having a really hard time reconciling my experience with the numbers.
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That is a WHOLE lotta if, Sray, with no real proof.
 
I did mention that I'd seen new players in zones throughout the game, not just in the first few lowbie areas.	
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That is a WHOLE lotta if, Sray, with no real proof.
 
I did mention that I'd seen new players in zones throughout the game, not just in the first few lowbie areas.
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True, but your anecdotal evidence about what you are seeing in game is also not real proof. It doesn't trump the cold hard facts on the quarterly report
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I did mention that I'd seen new players in zones throughout the game, not just in the first few lowbie areas.
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The free trial is 10 days. That's plenty of time to get out of Celestion. Indeed, according to some of our top players, it's enough time to get to DS.
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The entire point of my post was that I was having trouble reconciling the dramatic improvement in player experience I've witnessed with the numbers in the report.
 
I suspect CREDD frontloading of profits may have something to do with it, but it's impossible to know for sure without seeing a breakdown of box sales vs credit card subs vs CREDD sales.
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Keep in mind there is only 1 server now and the same several hundred people you see each week are mostly the same several hundred you see every week. A few hundred or a thousand unique players seems like a lot relative to standards in WS, but really isn't anything special in the MMO world. Someone on reddit estimated 40k subs. I find this number incredibly hard to believe because there is no way in hell we even have 20k active players. Even if we did have 40k subs... try to think how many people that really is. It's a lot!!! Probably more than Entity could handle logged on at one time. If we really had 40k active players things like world bosses, PEs, arenas, and ques would be happening constantly. 
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There may be even a little something extra to follow!
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The entire point of my post was that I was having trouble reconciling the dramatic improvement in player experience I've witnessed with the numbers in the report.
 
I suspect CREDD frontloading of profits may have something to do with it, but it's impossible to know for sure without seeing a breakdown of box sales vs credit card subs vs CREDD sales.
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			We shall sit patiently in suspense and wait for tomorrow's surprise. :o	
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We shall sit patiently in suspense and wait for tomorrow's surprise. :o
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			I've not really worried about what payment plan the game goes to (or stays at). That's Carbine and NCSofts jobs to manage. I looked at the reports, and then I'm just letting it go. For now, what I know is that my guild has doubled in size in the last 4-6 weeks, and we are happy and active. I'm loving this game more than I did when I started playing a year ago. With all the time, effort and love the devs are still pouring in, I believe NCSOFT is not making any threats yet. I've seen games shut down, and I've seen them stumble along. None of those have kept the team and content coming in the way WS does. Until that changes, I'm just not gonna worry. I'm having too much fun playing. :)	
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Considering most of the hits you get off google atm are rumors of it going f2p and other negative stuff, there's probably a reason why wildstar is failing. No one can see the diamond in all the coal.
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Front loaded CREDD sales might explain a certain amount of the discrepancy, but is actually worse news if you consider it to be buoying the game's population: when all the CREDD from the the front loaded sales is finally used up, there likely won't be enough being bought and sold in present time to satisfy the demand, which will skyrocket the price and drive away many players who simply won't pay a subscription.
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Still, realistic estimates for the cost of this game will place it at 80 million USD or higher, and that level of investment makes the level of revenue we're seeing beyond unacceptable.
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The Q4 numbers do suck, but I think those don't refelect the changes that have taken place in the last couple of drops.
 
Carbine needs to advertise this great game!
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80 million its  a bit higher for development cost, it put it directly on the top 10 expensive games for develop of all time
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			You know, it is these kind of posts that don't HELP a damned thing. 	
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Since this is an evening of hard financial realities, where do you propose that they get the money to pay for those advertisements?
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First off... this report is for BOX sales only - this has nothing to do with subs.
 
Additionally, this was for Q1 which is January, February and March - Which was before Drop 5 (May) and The promotions (April). 
 
So another words these numbers says nothing at all, in what the game numbers are in right now - we need the numbers for Q2 to see if there was an improvement to the sales.	
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MMORPG had a couple articles on this the last couple of days. 
 
Most of those box sales just went to existing players so do not expect to see a hug uptick in actual subscriptions. 	
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First off... this report is for BOX sales only - this has nothing to do with subs.
 
Additionally, this was for Q1 which is January, February and March - Which was before Drop 5 (May) and The promotions (April). 
 
So another words these numbers says nothing at all, in what the game numbers are in right now - we need the numbers for Q2 to see if there was an improvement to the sales.
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First off... this report is for BOX sales only - this has nothing to do with subs.
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First off... this report is for BOX sales only - this has nothing to do with subs.
 
 
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Maybe I missed clarification, but what does "sales" mean in this instance?
Is it number of transactions, currency earned(like $2,593 USD for example), or something else?
 
Just want some clarification as I never read these things, but I like to learn stuff.
 
Regardless I guess I'm not really phased by much after CoH and WAR...
Whatever happens...happens' jsut enjoy my time as I can.	
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Maybe I missed clarification, but what does "sales" mean in this instance?
Is it number of transactions, currency earned,
 
Just want some clarification as I never read these things, but I like to learn stuff.
 
Regardless I guess I'm not really phased by much after CoH and WAR...
Whatever happens...happens' jsut enjoy my time as I can.
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Sales is the money you get out of the cash register at the end of the day, basically. It's the money from which you take all of your costs and expenses to get the income.
 
In this case specifically it is the top line of their income statement, which they also break down by games. Yes, I am a business nerd and I read the report. It was surprisingly short, which I assume has more to do with the fact that I am used to reading reports from American companies who have to follow our disclosure laws.
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Okay okay...
 
So Lineage 1 is basically NCsofts bread and butter then hehe. WS on t he other hand if I'm understanding you and this information right earned 2593 dollars(or whatever currency NCsoft is looking at it with) for NCsoft?
 
lol and no worries about being a business nerd, just glad someone has patience for my dumb.
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Okay okay...
 
So Lineage 1 is basically NCsofts bread and butter then hehe. WS on t he other hand if I'm understanding you and this information right earned 2593 dollars(or whatever currency NCsoft is looking at it with) for NCsoft?
 
lol and no worries about being a business nerd, just glad someone has patience for my dumb.
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USD 2,2 millions, those 2.593 are millions of korean wons
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OH OKAY!*lightbulb* That's what that Unit KR in MN meant then. It all makes sense now.
Thanks a lot folks, learned something new today hehe
 	
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			welp I went through the swtor transition, guess I can weather this one (if it comes).  At this point I want to see a reponse in the next couple days to be honest.	
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Okay okay...
 
So Lineage 1 is basically NCsofts bread and butter then hehe. WS on t he other hand if I'm understanding you and this information right earned 2593 dollars(or whatever currency NCsoft is looking at it with) for NCsoft?
 
lol and no worries about being a business nerd, just glad someone has patience for my dumb.
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The numbers are surprising to me, because they don't match my in game experience at all. I do wonder if this is the effect of CREDD (that sales were inflated in the beginning and now are deflated due to people playing off of previously purchased CREDD). Either way, that doesn't "help" anything, but it would explain why what I experience and what the financials say are so different.
 
The steam announcement encourages me, because these financials are very discouraging. At the least, it means they haven't given up on the game (and with these numbers, it wouldn't surprise me if they did). I really did feel like I would unsub if the game went F2P, but at this point, I'd at least give the model a chance (there's loads of content for me to do, still). I certainly wouldn't call them greedy or immoral for trying to change things up given what we're seeing.
 
One thing to note, is that while this may create something of an "emergency state" for fans who are getting this info now, I'm sure this is not news to Carbine and it's not like anything has changed overnight. For example, TT wouldn't have posted about their plants to nerf the normal mode dungeons and mentioned [redacted] effort if they were planning on shutting the doors due to financials.	
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The numbers are surprising to me, because they don't match my in game experience at all. I do wonder if this is the effect of CREDD (that sales were inflated in the beginning and now are deflated due to people playing off of previously purchased CREDD). Either way, that doesn't "help" anything, but it would explain why what I experience and what the financials say are so different.
 
The steam announcement encourages me, because these financials are very discouraging. At the least, it means they haven't given up on the game (and with these numbers, it wouldn't surprise me if they did). I really did feel like I would unsub if the game went F2P, but at this point, I'd at least give the model a chance (there's loads of content for me to do, still). I certainly wouldn't call them greedy or immoral for trying to change things up given what we're seeing.
 
One thing to note, is that while this may create something of an "emergency state" for fans who are getting this info now, I'm sure this is not news to Carbine and it's not like anything has changed overnight. For example, TT wouldn't have posted about their plants to nerf the normal mode dungeons and mentioned [redacted] effort if they were planning on shutting the doors due to financials.
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In game perception is a terrible measurement of how many people are actually subbed or playing. You will always have a perception of increase or that there are people around unless the game is literally a desert, and even then an increase will be wildly disproportional to how many people actually joined the game.
 
While some people say "Oh but we're getting so many new people in our guild" you will never see how many people unsubbed at that same time. The game is built to try to pack as many people in and show you a "living" place, and it's only a testament to how empty WS is that you could even perceive that there was any increase at all. 
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			I don't honestly see how talking about this helps..... what is done is done, it is in the hands of smarter people than us forum dwellers. 	
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I don't honestly see how talking about this helps..... what is done is done, it is in the hands of smarter people than us forum dwellers. 
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Carbine is following a standard turnaround strategy. First, stop the decline (remove or modify the worst #hardcore systems), stabilize the core (more content for casuals), grow revenue sources (change in business models/cash shop, etc).
 
They are certainly not surprised at all by this because they're the ones providing the numbers to NCSoft for NCSoft's reports. And CS is well aware of their decline, which is why they are pursuing their current strategy that I mentioned above.	
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The numbers are surprising to me, because they don't match my in game experience at all. I do wonder if this is the effect of CREDD (that sales were inflated in the beginning and now are deflated due to people playing off of previously purchased CREDD). Either way, that doesn't "help" anything, but it would explain why what I experience and what the financials say are so different.
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The numbers are surprising to me, because they don't match my in game experience at all. 
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Daewoo's predictions are out as well.	
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			So by that prediction sheet, no change to payment method could possibly be included, unless they expect that it won't really add more income from it....	
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So by that prediction sheet, no change to payment method could possibly be included, unless they expect that it won't really add more income from it....
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Well how many people have you really met in game? At best we have 40k subs split between NA and EU and only a portion of them are actually active. Have you seen more than even 1k unique individuals? I'm guessing you've encountered several hundred and are thinking that's good... 
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			How does Lineage I do so well?	
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How does Lineage I do so well?
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I'm actually on the fence about this, I currently play WoW full time, but I played Wildstar at the launch and really loved it. A few of my guild mates have been talking about coming back to Wildstar after all these drop patches but haven't yet due to the lack of response from Carbine. 
 
I am in the same boat, I want to hear something official about the plans for the future before I make the leap of faith honestly, if they would just announce something worthwhile to make me believe that there is a future for the game than I'd re-sub and try it out.	
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