126590-world-bosses

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Do people still do World Bosses on this game?
Really need it for raid attunement, but no one ever replies to me when I ask about making a group	
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Do people still do World Bosses on this game?
Really need it for raid attunement, but no one ever replies to me when I ask about making a group
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			Done them with my guildies a lot	
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			People run them all the time. Try /chjoin lfg if you're on Entity. People will form groups... the trick is to do them whenever you can and if you can get in on the Hellrose Bowl you'll be golden.	
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			Entity Dominion still does them near every day, or at least has people drumming up groups for it.	
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Thank you for the replies :)
I have been trying to get into hellrose, but the door is always closed :(	
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If you want get Hellrose going, get a group working on opening it, it does take a while, but really helps if you can get an explorer to open the cave in the ravine to the South East. You can then shuttle run, so even two people can get it going quite fast.
 
Keep advertising you are doing it in the global channel and you'll be surprised how many people come out of the woodwork. Especially when you are within 50-100 of the target, the group will grow quickly.
 
The difference between:
 
1. LFG Hellrose
 
and
 
2. Hellrose Event soon! /join me to get 3 World Bosses!
 
Sometimes when you want something, you just have to organise it. :D	
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If you want get Hellrose going, get a group working on opening it, it does take a while, but really helps if you can get an explorer to open the cave in the ravine to the South East. You can then shuttle run, so even two people can get it going quite fast.
 
Keep advertising you are doing it in the global channel and you'll be surprised how many people come out of the woodwork. Especially when you are within 50-100 of the target, the group will grow quickly.
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Do people still do World Bosses on this game?
Really need it for raid attunement, but no one ever replies to me when I ask about making a group
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Sometimes when you want something, you just have to organise it. :D
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			Man I don't even know how Hellrose Bowl thing works. @.@ Never been able to do it.	
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Man I don't even know how Hellrose Bowl thing works. @.@ Never been able to do it.
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			I've seen a few groups forming in lfg that are either taking out a certain world boss, or going on a boss-hunting safari. I get in one of those and ended up with like 6 world bosses under my belt in one day.	
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Collect broadcasting equipment from mobs near the bowl; it's a random drop. When you get enough equipment the event will start and you'll fight a variety of bosses in the ring. It's I think 3 world bosses total, so people are always willing to jump in as you get close to opening it because it's a big boost on attunement.
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			Should be some World Boss updates coming in the next drop to hopefully help make the experience more fun and rewarding. =)	
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Should be some World Boss updates coming in the next drop to hopefully help make the experience more fun and rewarding. =)
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Should be some World Boss updates coming in the next drop to hopefully help make the experience more fun and rewarding. =)
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			Hmmmm.... does this mean they're nerfing WB's, adding them to contracts, lowering the number you need, adding relevant loot for all levels? Very curious to see what changes are coming.	
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Should be some World Boss updates coming in the next drop to hopefully help make the experience more fun and rewarding. =)
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Hmmmm.... does this mean they're nerfing WB's, adding them to contracts, lowering the number you need, adding relevant loot for all levels? Very curious to see what changes are coming.
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Should be some World Boss updates coming in the next drop to hopefully help make the experience more fun and rewarding. =)
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Should be some World Boss updates coming in the next drop to hopefully help make the experience more fun and rewarding. =)
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Did Containment R-12 yesterday.. There was only 5 of us, managed to get the event done after.. How many hours? nearly 2 at least :(
 
And I was advertising it in Thayd but not many replies	
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Should be some World Boss updates coming in the next drop to hopefully help make the experience more fun and rewarding. =)
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			I'd really really like to see world bosses where its not just a zergfest and mechanics must be played. I had a lot of fun in vanilla and BC doing the world bosses because they required some degree of coordination. I was honestly a bit annoyed when they took those out of the game in cataclysm. 	
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I'd really really like to see world bosses where its not just a zergfest and mechanics must be played. I had a lot of fun in vanilla and BC doing the world bosses because they required some degree of coordination. I was honestly a bit annoyed when they took those out of the game in cataclysm. 
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people don't care for gameplay.
just give them "rewards" aka: i <3 Scorchwing lagfest and i don't play the new adventure Bay of Betrayal.
 
vicious circle here...
the grind is needed to get somewhere (need the gear/stat) so people do the easiest way to grind (even if boring) and end up leaving the game because it feels like a chore.
 
bad design is bad.
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This is an interesting design issue, expressed badly.
 
If people didn't care for gameplay, they wouldn't feel things were chores. They do, it does. The solution should be in the hands of the devs, but the idea that the customer is always right is flawed. The player needs to feel empowered, rewarded and involved, yes, but they also have to be willing to be, to some extent. I cry not a tear for people who farm boring content, ignore the more interesting stuff, and then complain the game is boring. Would I prefer all content was fun? Of course! Is it possible to make farming content fun? That's tricky. Is it utterly necessary all of the time? No.	
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I'd really really like to see world bosses where its not just a zergfest and mechanics must be played. I had a lot of fun in vanilla and BC doing the world bosses because they required some degree of coordination. I was honestly a bit annoyed when they took those out of the game in cataclysm.
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1) More hardcore World Bosses would be cool, particularly if they were instanced to a 30 man cap or something.
2) Some WBs do indeed have mechanics: King Bee (or w/e it's called) springs to mind, as does Kraggar (although that's 'run awwaaayyyy' and then go again).
 
I think the issue with 'zergfests' is seeing Scorchwing et al being hammered for contracts, where there's so many people that mechanics are pointless. Death becomes meaningless.	
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Should be some World Boss updates coming in the next drop to hopefully help make the experience more fun and rewarding. =)
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			What is that fight?	
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There are a few world bosses that are like this. Zoetic in Wilderrun comes to mind, I enjoyed that one. Kraggar is similar but more frustrating for most because of his insta wipe mechanics.
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What is that fight?
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Zoetic is loads of fun and kraggar can be too, but neither are really wipeable. You might lose a person or two, but nothing stops you from graveyard running. WoW's world bosses had mechanics that effectively stopped people from graveyard running (kazzaks, 70k heal and 3 min enrage time, and the blue dragons 15 minute freeze debuff)
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			I don't recall any of GW2's world bosses being much more than a faceroll either, tbh.	
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			I'm totally with you on the idea of power scaling, the world bosses are really intended for a full raid of people who are the level of the zone in which the world boss is located, not a full raid of 50s. Without instancing the world bosses, I imagine it could be difficult to powerscale them however. One way you could do this, is provide a rally point which people can click on which takes them down to the level of the zone and then you can do the boss. but, if you've ever done a lower level dungeon rallied, in GA legendaries, you are still op for the level. I would add though, that just because something is wipeable doesn't mean its inaccessible. You could even give world bosses cool and unique mechanics that distinguish them and require the group to perform different tasks in the fight and not just tank/heal/dps. 	
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I don't recall any of GW2's world bosses being much more than a faceroll either, tbh.
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Isn't there a disconnect here?
 
I.e. bosses 'need' to be faceroll. But they also need to scale 'so gear players' can 'enjoy lower level content'.
 
But if it's a faceroll, what is the enjoyment?
 
Again we're back to this path of least resistance business, and the fact that people do care about gameplay, especially so if it's rewarding you with upgrades/bonuses.	
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I'm totally with you on the idea of power scaling, the world bosses are really intended for a full raid of people who are the level of the zone in which the world boss is located, not a full raid of 50s. Without instancing the world bosses, I imagine it could be difficult to powerscale them however. One way you could do this, is provide a rally point which people can click on which takes them down to the level of the zone and then you can do the boss. but, if you've ever done a lower level dungeon rallied, in GA legendaries, you are still op for the level. I would add though, that just because something is wipeable doesn't mean its inaccessible. You could even give world bosses cool and unique mechanics that distinguish them and require the group to perform different tasks in the fight and not just tank/heal/dps. 
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Isn't there a disconnect here?
 
I.e. bosses 'need' to be faceroll. But they also need to scale 'so gear players' can 'enjoy lower level content'.
 
But if it's a faceroll, what is the enjoyment?
 
Again we're back to this path of least resistance business, and the fact that people do care about gameplay, especially so if it's rewarding you with upgrades/bonuses.
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Isn't there a disconnect here?
 
I.e. bosses 'need' to be faceroll. But they also need to scale 'so gear players' can 'enjoy lower level content'.
 
But if it's a faceroll, what is the enjoyment?
 
Again we're back to this path of least resistance business, and the fact that people do care about gameplay, especially so if it's rewarding you with upgrades/bonuses.
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Yeah, I'm not even sure where to jump into that discussion. It's not making any sense.
 
GW2 is not a team game, it's a solo game, so bosses there are just for the experience of it, not the challenge.
 
A true MMO where teams and roles are present needs bosses that are first a puzzle, then a matter of execution... even (especially!) world bosses.
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Another option would be to add hard mode mechanics to world bosses. A good example of how to do this would be on zoetic, give the mobs a channel they can cast to make zoetic stronger, you can either interrupt it and kill them, or let them finish casting it in which case they despawn, but zoetic becomes much stronger for each one that does this. This would allow groups to set how much of challenge they want with zoetic by killing a different number of the mobs. 
 
The key for me with making them fun but doable would be mechanics that aren't just based on heal this damage, avoid this telegraph, tank swap (read traditional raid mechanics), but mechanics that have danger but that can be performed by any group. 	
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you could make world bosses as a team mechanic.. but they would probably have to be instanced...
 
the idea of world bosses in the open world in my book is more as farmable easy content for aunties and such. things you do on autopilot almost (to a certain extent, they still need to have a degree of fun to them, hence the need for downscaling. cause they are fun when you are of their level! but not when your 50+geared...)
if you want to leave the world boss as content anybody can jump in then you cannot design them very intricately because of the trinity and the fact that you basically won't know the proportion of healers/dps/tanks.
 
on the other hand if you want to design them as more "organized team content"... i think they need to be instanced.
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 mechanics that aren't just based on heal this damage, avoid this telegraph, tank swap (read traditional raid mechanics), but mechanics that have danger but that can be performed by any group. 
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I think world bosses in vanilla WoW were done the right way. They were as intricate as any instanced raid boss with varying mechanics... they even had mechanics that a bystander not in your group could cause a wipe on! Best of all they were taggable so there was always friendly server competition to see who could get to the boss, control and tag it first (and then not wipe). And on a PvP server it was always a war. Good social MMO content at its finest.
 
They are terrible in WoW today of course, loot bags and a waste of time and nothing more.
 
They just don't hold any value to me like that, and definitely shouldn't be called a boss.
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nope. not that.
old school is not the way to go.
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nope. not that.
old school is not the way to go.
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the idea of world bosses in the open world in my book is more as farmable easy content for aunties and such. things you do on autopilot almost (to a certain extent,
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I definitely understand that might be considered "harsh" by today's standards, but, what meaning is there to a world boss if the only requirements are to show up and push buttons for 10 minutes, without even communicating with other players?
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			Don't change Zoetic until they can get credit for it fixed. Nothing like going through the entire encounter and not getting credit when it dies.	
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That's not how I think of open world bosses at all. :/
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Zoetic is loads of fun and kraggar can be too, but neither are really wipeable. You might lose a person or two, but nothing stops you from graveyard running.
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Try Kraggar as a Dominion player. ;)
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Don't change Zoetic until they can get credit for it fixed. Nothing like going through the entire encounter and not getting credit when it dies.
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so basically, you would just make them harder, more damaging and requiring more coordination (tanks/healers/interrupts etc).
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We'll make sure it properly grants credit for stuff when he's defeated.
 
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I rather like how the world bosses are balanced now when fought at the appropriate level.
 
I think in Rift if you are higher level and attack a low level zone boss, it auto-"debuffs" your damage output, plus there is voluntary mentoring where you can select what level you want to be synced down to. I know WildStar has something of a mentor system, though I believe it only works if the person you want to mentor to is in your party, and you are restricted in that you can only mentor down to their level; it's inaccessible if you're on your own or just with a bunch of high level people already.
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if you put in"downscaling" for players going to lower level zones and even instances you cure a lot of the issues!
 
then all the discussion is dope. basically if they are able to put that into the game's pve... they win the first test and it'll then be only a matter of giving the right rewards.
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Scaling has always proven to deliver sub-par experiences. That's one of the problems with Guild Wars 2 encounters... you can't just scale down level, dynamically according to amount of players, and leave in tact higher-impact player abilities unlocked at higher levels, etc. It just ends up in a super-poor experience overall. I.e. GW2 boss fights.
 
I feel that hand-crafted content is the way to go, especially for a boss fight in order to have creative mechanics. If players can zerg it, i guess so be it... it comes with the pillow mechanics of open world bosses. But at least it will feel like the player accomplished something upon defeating it, or it will inspire lower level players seeing it for the first time.
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:\
 
and you think high level players will enjoy beating on a boss that can barely scratch them for how long ?
 
we really see the opposite you and me.
and obviously, i'm the one who's right.
 
downscaling would just make it so higher level players would still have a slight challenge. obviously they won't be as weak as actual low level players, but they won't be god in a one-shot land...
 
and then you bring gw2 into this.. and can you imagine if there was no downscaling in gw2 ? keep the same encounter but allow players to out level the fight drastically. WHAT A FAIL.
already gw2 boss encounters aren't that great (at least the vanilla ones) please don't allow players to not even be scratched by the bosses attacks by not downscaling them,
 
you make no sense at all :\
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			You guys know the world bosses are already scaled enemies, correct? Your abilities hit them as if you were at their level.	
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And if my experience with WoW world bosses for the last 2 expansions is any indiction, players *love* beating on a boss that won't scratch them. They'll even complain if you kill it before they get there, because all they want is loot, not fun.
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You guys know the world bosses are already scaled enemies, correct? Your abilities hit them as if you were at their level.
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? weren't you the one who said you want challenging and 1 pug guy can make you wipe etc ?
you're losing me...
 
then i said bosses are ok to be face rolled to a certain extent and you argued with me...
 
you know what. your signature makes sense "ignore" is what it'll be.... otherwise i'll get nasty.
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One-shot mechanics are good way to go. They can't be mitigated by tanks/heals. They can be creative in the way you stop them. 
 
Take for example metal maw prime - he has an air phase where he goes up and shoots lasers at people and then drops down for a ton of damage. To make that fight dangerous, make him charge a devastating attack that will kill everyone on the platform. Put a big cannon on the platform that is shielded. Now, make MMP attack random people on the platform with giant lasers of death that follow them around. In order to drop the shield, those players have to drag the laser to the shield and eventually destroy it. Fire the cannon, one-shot mechanic averted.
 
 
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? weren't you the one who said you want challenging and 1 pug guy can make you wipe etc ?
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Short version: There should be no low level world bosses, even in low level zones. They should all be aimed at max-level players, and serve as inspiration for lower level players.
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While I agree with you that world bosses should have a level of challenge, I could not disagree more that they should be unavailable to lower level players. This is a symptom of "the game doesn't start until level cap", which is a mindset I am really so incredibly tired of in MMOs, as someone who generally enjoys the experience of leveling a character - often more than the grind at cap. The "mid-game", as it's been called, deserves attention and challenge in instanced and open world content, too.
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Who says world bosses aren't available to low level players? I went on a world boss safari with my level 28 alt last weekend with no problems, and not only did I get 4 levels but I also knocked out 10/12 of my attunement requirements. What was the difference between me and other low levels? Simply put, I knew what they were for. Therefore, I had an incentive to do them other than the novelty of killing a world boss.
 
If you want world bosses to be accessible to low level players, you should give them an obvious incentive to do them. Waiting around for a group to kill a boss just loses them time they could've spent questing or dungeoneering.	
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Can you fix DPU on Farside as well please? It doesn't give an achievement when killed, but it apparently gives credit only if you are on the world boss step of attunement, so it's not retroactive like all the other bosses.
 
Oh, and just in case you guys haven't been bombarded with enough bug reports about it:
 
1) DPU sometimes resets for no reason
2) King Honeybutt more than sometimes resets for no reason
3) Metal Maw Prime sometimes resets for no reason and sometimes the panel to activate him cannot be interacted with even though Metal Maw himself is visible
 
Thanks!
 
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Who says world bosses aren't available to low level players? 
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Who says world bosses aren't available to low level players? 
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what do you think Carbine WILL DO ?  :D
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 I like really long world boss fights (15-20 minutes) 
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If this was done, attunement would become very painful.
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Carbine's world boss revamp: Add world bosses to the contracts and create a zerg while buffing their damage slightly but making no significant changes to how they work. 
 
 
 
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true that, unless low level players were incentivized to get boss kills while leveling in zones or world bosses were reduced for attunement. Fun bosses with good rewards > boring zergfests no-one kills outside of pets/attunement
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While I agree with you that world bosses should have a level of challenge, I could not disagree more that they should be unavailable to lower level players. This is a symptom of "the game doesn't start until level cap", which is a mindset I am really so incredibly tired of in MMOs, as someone who generally enjoys the experience of leveling a character - often more than the grind at cap. The "mid-game", as it's been called, deserves attention and challenge in instanced and open world content, too.
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jormag > scorchwing
 
disclaimer: jormag is still not that great gameplay wise (well, better than scorchwing anyway), but at least he's epic and doesn't feel cheap.	
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jormag > scorchwing
 
disclaimer: jormag is still not that great gameplay wise (well, better than scorchwing anyway), but at least he's epic and doesn't feel cheap.
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I do understand that folks like to level alts, but isn't there a ton of variety already in terms of race, class, faction, path, tradeskills, challenges, public events, zones, etc? I think WildStar has more of that than pretty much any other leveling game I can think of!
 
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I do understand that folks like to level alts, but isn't there a ton of variety already in terms of race, class, faction, path, tradeskills, challenges, public events, zones, etc? I think WildStar has more of that than pretty much any other leveling game I can think of!
 
More variety could always be welcome, but in terms of "world bosses" that just feels more like a cap thing to me. They have been weak in recent WoW and SW:TOR and GW:2 and I feel its all because of trying to accommodate lower levels.
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No, there isn't. Faction has weight only until the middle fo Whitevale. Then both factions become mirror versions of each other with some minor differences (text quest and some quests here and there). Race is mostly aesthetic and thus it's weight, while important, cannot do anything when faced with the same levelling path you did the last time. Paths are supposed to spice that up, but they are very similar (if not the same) for both factions and (since the last time I checked) they do not provide good experience compared with questing. Public Events? I think I can count the events I did and saw while leveling up with one hand. Zones? As I stated before, they are all the same after Whitevale. For both factions. Even if you are into housing you will want your alt to reach level 50 as soon as possible because there's a bunch of decor and FABkits that are level or reputation locked.
 
So no, there isn't that much to do during leveling besides leveling. 
 
Adding World Bosses as 'level 50 only' events is putting more cards into the 'endgame is the goal!' mentality which, let's be honest here, is where Wildstar put all of their cards already.
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In terms of leveling experience? Well WoW surpasses WildStar by a longshot in terms of sheer zone and quest variety (faction quests are for the most part separate, plus there are more zone options to go to when leveling). Rift provides meaningful variety in experience with rifts, zone invasions, instant adventures, and a greater variety of classes to pick and choose from (plus more than one distinct storyline when leveling).
 
Personally I don't like seeing a lot of cool stuff walled off behind level cap. I want my leveling experience to be rich and engaging because I know I'm going to be spending a lot of time doing it.	
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 So what game *does* provide more variety than WildStar leveling, and specifically why?
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- Very alt friendly 
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I mean, you're gonna pick every possible variance apart as a negative? So what game *does* provide more variety than WildStar leveling, and specifically why?
 
 
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Again, why bother with levelling if it doesn't matter?
There's also a big problem with this: the only reason players spend so much time at endgame is because the game is designed that way. They designed the leveling experience to not last that long and to not reward anything beyond 'get to the next level!'. It's circular logic: Player's will breeze through levels, so levels don't matter. Levels don't matter, so players will breeze through levels!
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Because in the end, these are RPGs telling a story. The leveling delivers narrative and defines your character's place in the world while introducing you to the protagonists, antagonists, etc. It's a big. grand adventure.
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Endgame *is* the goal... it's a vertical progression system. 
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			But then they would not be HARDCORE! and we don't want any of that, right?	
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That's a weak answer. You are implying that they couldn't have made the narrative part of the actual important part of the game (the end-game). That they couldn't possibly introduce characters, the world and the big grand adventure in any other way but to use content that isn't actually relevant to the endgame. 
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I would guess that if you asked how many people had taken more than one character through the leveling game in a given faction, you'd have a much larger fraction of the playerbase than those who are or have worked their way through Datascape. So a more diverse leveling route probably would have been used by more of the playerbase.
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I dont know what you guys are talking about and I'm to lazy to read the whole post atm. BUT I saw World bosses on topic and I would like to say something:)
 
I have been part of taking dont ALOT of those guys...but 2 stood out as fun:)
 
I loved metalmav in (the domminion zone after the starting zone..savanna map..home of the kraken?..the wierd horned dommies). Now THAT fight was VERY fun...the way he suddenly flies up...and then comes down BAM!!! very fun fight I had a blast as both level 50 exile SS and with my dommie SS level 15 (8mnts ago).
 
Then there is this...wilderrun?....boss..The is one part of the fight where the red telegraph is something i've never seen before...its like a wierd looking telegraphed are where flowers/plants/moss grows up under you...VERY cool looking...
 
Loved those two bosses:) The others.....a booring mass of caos red teles all over and generally booring...booring means i will hold in button 1 for the entire fight while I'l take a nap...	
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Regarding leveling, I hate, hate, HATE the "game begins at cap" stuff. In fact, what made me fall in LOVE with this game was that when I hit level 20 and did STL Normal, I suddenly felt like I had access to end game challenging content at level 20. I mean, that was revolutionary for me. I felt 0 desire to push to 50 and just ran STL normal as many times as I possibly could because it was fun.  It was like crack for me. This is part of why I've been against the nerf of these dungeons, but I understand why it's going to change.
 
And yes, I hit 50 way after anyone else in my guild at the time. It took me forever to get into a raid group that made any real progression (I started at launch, and my successful raid group started in January, though I was in a guild that killed x-89 around September of last year before it fell apart). But all those guys who hit 50 before me left the game.
 
So all that to say, leveling is a huge part of the game. I'm not a big fan of questing, I'll be honest, but I do enjoy running the normal mode dungeons (and I'm glad they are going to be smoothing that out), and I hate being pressured to just blast through content.
 
At any rate, the leveling is very linear, much more so than WoW, and I think the game suffers for it. WoW felt very much more alive as a world with it's multiple zones at each level, but my guess is that this is just a limit of the development resources WS had. Each time I've leveled, I've felt like there's a polish to the first few zones (which offer more options) that latter zones do not have, which indicates to me they just weren't able to execute their vision fully.	
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Tbo No other game has ever felt so alive as WOW did...they did very good there...the whole atmosphere was vibrant in wow:) But I think atmosphere is one of Blizzards key selling points. Just look at all the amazing animation movies they have supervised and payed for...it is truuly amazing! The whole warcraft universe is solid quality!
 
WS problem is TOO many quests...There are quest everywhere....the whole zones are filled with them..making you soo fed up with questing at close to 50 that you dont pay attention to any story anymore....
 
But man they truly nailed the Stormtallon! :) and on 2nd place the KV dungeon	
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Tbo No other game has ever felt so alive as WOW did...they did very good there...the whole atmosphere was vibrant in wow:) But I think atmosphere is one of Blizzards key selling points. Just look at all the amazing animation movies they have supervised and payed for...it is truuly amazing! The whole warcraft universe is solid quality!
 
WS problem is TOO many quests...There are quest everywhere....the whole zones are filled with them..making you soo fed up with questing at close to 50 that you dont pay attention to any story anymore....
 
But man they truly nailed the Stormtallon! :) and on 2nd place the KV dungeon
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If I remember correctly, per zone, does WoW not have more quests? I honestly think WS has very little quests. 
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Been replaying WoW with a friend, just leveling up some characters together.  Started hordeside in pandaland and then moved into Azshara.  Thus my experience and memory are fresh and uncolored by rose-colored glasses.  I can guarantee you the amount of quests are pretty equivalent, when you count quest starts from drops, quest starts from givers, quests that pop up from the sidebar, etc.
 
The thing WoW probably does a little better is pacing.  Quest hubs are closer together, so that at any given moment there may be fewer, but you're burning through them a little faster (unless you get a stupid one where you need to get meat from an animal, which invariably should just be immediately abandoned because even after 10 years, WoW and animal body parts still haven't reached a reasonable drop rate).  
 
So... same amount of quests roughly, maybe even more to WoW, but quicker completion and smoother pacing.  Wildstar tends to have more, and you have to walk/drive/ride further to get to the objective, though Wildstar tends to use the communicator for completion a lot more often than WoW.  Honestly I'd say it's a wash in comparison, maybe down to personal preference.
 
And... I'm sure Wildstar will achieve smoother pacing whenthey get beyond a firefighting mode on content and balance and get back into teensy incremental Quality of Life changes.  Blizzard has had a really really really long time and a vast amount of money to pay people to sit around and tweak things gently.	
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Should be some World Boss updates coming in the next drop to hopefully help make the experience more fun and rewarding. =)
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Speaking of attunement. Why is the Adventure Step not retroactive? Also, why isn't Bay of Betrayal or Protostar Games included/an option in the adventure and dungeon steps of attunement?
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