Report 1817

Report #1817
Skillset: Night Skill: Steal
 Org: Celest Status: Rejected Sept 2017
Furies' Decision:
Rejecting, looking for other solutions.
Problem: Taking over Aeldra's report (1809) here: Shadowdance steal ->
Shadowdance twist has no build-down mechanic. Once they have twisted you, it
takes until the next dawn for your shadow to reset. There is no other skill in
the game that lets you build towards a kill condition, and hold that buildup for
up to an hour. [Exception: Soulless, but it is much more limited in use, since
it's channeled.] The goal here is simply to add in a reset mechanic without
hurting the twist skill itself.
[A:10 R: 4] Solution #1: Add a 20s timer that starts counting down after the
 following skills: Shadowdance steal, twist, squeeze,
 nightkiss and nightgaze. If the timer hits 0 then the
 shadow resets, with a message to the night user as
 well as victim that the shadow has poofed, and twists
 have reset.
[A: 6 R: 4] Solution #2: Add to the planar summon skill: SUMMON SHADOW, which
 would be a 10s channeled action to resummon your
 shadow to yourself (In reality the shadow will poof
 and reset twists). This summoning would notify the
 night user, work across all planes/continents, and
 ignore mono/movement of the shadow holder etc.
[A: 4 R: 7] Solution #3: Add a 15s timer that starts counting down after the
 following skills: Shadowdance steal, twist, squeeze,
 nightkiss, nightgaze, AND LASH. If the timer hits 0
 then the shadow resets, with a message to the night
 user as well as victim that the shadow has poofed,
 and twists have reset.
Player Comments:
---[Ciaran on 9/13 @ 12:26 sets as pending]
---[Anelissa on 9/13 @ 12:40 writes]:
I understand the rationale behind Sol 1, but I think the 20s timer off the last
steal/twist/squeeze/nightkiss is a bit limiting for the Night user. This will
essentially punish the night user for sitting on a shadow to use the final twist
at the right time. Perhaps maybe a set timer from after masochism comes back.
This allows you to keep the same rewards for the victim (shadow resets if you
break from combat) but doesn't punish the SD for sitting on a twist for the
right time if the victim voluntarily stays in combat.
---[Ciaran on 9/13 @ 12:49 writes]:
I got that feeling also @Anelissa, which is why I included nightkiss, which
would allow the night user to keep the shadow from fading if they wanted to hold
it for a combo.
---[Avurekhos on 9/13 @ 13:08 writes]:
There is not much for me to really add here, but I do think the solutions are a
start to provide counterplay to a kit in general that has a lot going for it
when it comes to being able to pressure mana. Whether that be from released
shadows, banshees, etc and ultimately the T-word. Anelissa addressed any issues
with the solutions best I believe when it comes to both parties.
---[Veyils on 9/13 @ 13:40 writes]:
Change solution 2 to not summon but destroy the shadow.
---[Veyils on 9/13 @ 13:41 writes]:
For clarity any solution should destroy the shadow not steal it back to the
victim.
---[Tarken on 9/13 @ 15:51 writes]:
Preference for solution 2. If we go with solution one I feel you'd need to add
nightgaze/lash to the list, as both also benefit from holding a shadow (bonus
damage/drain respectively). I'm not sure if that was an intentional omition or
not.
---[Ciaran on 9/13 @ 16:36 writes]:
@Veyils - updating the wording now. -- No @Tarken, omitting lash/gaze wasn't
intentional
---[Ciaran on 9/13 @ 16:37 writes]:
Cont: that would be my ignorance of the night skillset showing. I didn't even
realize Nightgaze was a thing, so I'll add that to the list. With regards to
lash: I'm not 100% sold on the idea that it should just passively stick around
endlessly as log as the Night user is active around them. I sort of do like the
idea of them using a balance to damage (not furthering other kill methods) in
order to reset the timer. How would you feel about changing the timer to 15s
and adding lash to the list of things that reset the timer?
---[Xenthos on 9/13 @ 21:18 writes]:
I do think the timer suggested here is too short-- should be longer, not
shorter. If combat ends, it's going to be done for at least a couple of
minutes, so having a base timer at 60s would be preferable (that's not 'forever'
as far as I'm concerned, whereas 20s / 15s is pretty darn limiting). The goal
should be to make it so that a shadow can't be used from fight to fight, not to
make it so that a SD absolutely must perform actions from a subset of abilities
in order to be able to use their offense. The shorter the timer, the easier it
is to have certain strong hindering actions eat away a significant block of that
window.
---[Shedrin on 9/14 @ 14:06 writes]:
20s is possibly too short. 30s might be fine. This would allow someone to spam
shield against an SD in 1v1s to stall them out, which isn't particularly fun,
but also not new to Wiccans.
---[Veyils on 9/14 @ 15:42 writes]:
20s would be ok as long as you can refresh the timer powerless with skills like
nightkiss and gaze. 15 is a bit short in general. I prefer solution 2 in general
though. 10 seconds of channeled time interupted by the fairly standard stuff
prone/mental affs etc.
---[Ejderha on 9/14 @ 19:13 writes]:
I think all solutions help with the core issue of the problem, no build-down
mechanic. I am most in favour of Sol1 and least in favour of Sol2 (but would
still support it). I would even support 30s over sol2. If we go with Sol2, I
wonder if we could append Aeldra's idea of having the fact that your shadow has
been stolen on diagnose?
---[Crek on 9/16 @ 02:58 writes]:
The goal of this report -seems- to be stopping prebuilt twisted shadows being
'saved' for later. The proposed timers seem to suggest instead trying to force
twist in to being a timebomb type ability. Use it or lose it. I continue to
suggest simply giving shadows a 90 second life requiring the Night user to
twist/tighten/squeeze to refresh the timer. Please keep in mind: only one Night
user can steal a target shadow, this is Glomdoring's only access to aeon, twist
can only be used a certain number of times before either advancing to the next
affliction or destroying the shadow, and the general weakness of afflictions
outside the double aeon and final twist (these afflictions being prone, sleep,
stupidity and broken leg). All that said, out of the proposed solutions I would
hesitantly support solution 1 with at least 30s timer with lash included on the
list or solution 2 as a much less preferred solution.
---[Moi on 9/18 @ 21:40 writes]:
15s is too short. 20s might be okay. But as with Veyils I prefer sol 2, making
it an active skill.
---[Shedrin on 9/19 @ 19:18 writes]:
I don't prefer Solution 2 as it's yet another specific syntax to implement and
remember.
---[Veyils on 9/19 @ 23:05 writes]:
Pref for solution 2 as stated. 20 Seconds of reset time if you can refresh using
non power skills like twist, Nightgaze or Nightkiss or 40 seconds for only power
abilities eg tighten, squeeze, etc to reset the timer.
---[Veyils on 9/21 @ 23:25 writes]:
For clarity sol2 should be interuptable by mental afflictions and prone/entangle
etc.
---[Minkahmet on 9/24 @ 20:58 writes]:
Twenty or thirty seconds seems legit in this instance.
---[Aeldra on 9/29 @ 20:31 writes]:
I had not seen this report or it's solution till like a few days ago, not 100%
convinced of either solution, but I suppose 1 or 2 are workable. Support
accordingly.
---[Xenthos on 9/30 @ 20:42 writes]:
Just going to vote No since this report was (Yet Again) put up without talking
with any Glomdoring envoys, the solutions don't really take concerns into
account (as Crek has pointed out, they are solutions that do not address the
problem but try to sneak nerfs in-- the problem would easily have been addressed
with a 60s timer without really impacting the skill). In addition, there is
nothing in here for handling a Warrior using a Shadow (yes, warriors can steal
shadows, and it does increase warrior damage with normal warrior attacks without
needing to stop to twist all the time). Personal preference is that this report
just be rejected with a "Glomdoring, please submit a report that addresses the
stated problem" (which honestly if nobody else had I would have this coming
month, but now we have to wait for this report decision before looking into
that). I am just going to reiterate the point that it really is a good idea to
actually work with people and not just throw stuff out.