Report 1124

Report #1124
Skillset: Harmonics Skill: Convoke
 Org: Institute Status: Completed Apr 2013
Furies' Decision:
Solution 1.
Problem: Convoke is a summoning skill that goes essentially unused. It requires
resonance, which can only be placed on one target at any given time and costs 5
power every time it changes targets. Convoke requires an additional 3 power cost
and small gem expenditure for a summon that is identical to Summon under Planar
unless the target also has timewarp, at which point it is sped up at the
following thresholds: 11 seconds at minor, 10 seconds at moderate, 7 seconds at
majorly, and 4 seconds at massively. It would seem that, ideally, convoke is
intended to be helpful in pulling back a target who is close to being killed via
timequake. However, as timewarp is easy to cure quickly, the delays are liable
to allow the target to cure out of all or most of their timewarp by the time you
pull them back, at which point you may as well just chase after them instead.
The purpose of this report, hence, will be to adjust convoke so that it might
have reason to see use.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Reduce the summon times, and ensure the lower levels
 of timewarp are closer to the higher ones for
 reduction. 5 seconds at minor, 4 at moderate, 3 at
 major, and instant at massive, as a suggestion.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Reinvent Convoke into a 3 power summoning castable
 only on those with heartstones. It would be 6 seconds
 normally, or 4 seconds if the Convoker holds the
 heartstone of the person.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: Reinvent Convoke into an ally rooting buff. When
 cast, it will boost rooting for all allies in the
 same room as the caster. There will be no rooting
 effect on the caster. Only one Convoke should be
 possible per room. It should have a 2 minute maximum
 duration before needing to be recast, and should drop
 immediately if the caster leaves the room. Costs and
 degree of rooting would be at the administration's
 discretion.
Player Comments:
---[Vivet on 4/2 @ 13:24 writes]:
I have preference for solution 2 or solution 3 over 1 - the first solution
exists on the sole basis that the administration would rather not see the skill
reinvented for another direction or purpose.
---[Shuyin on 4/2 @ 18:54 writes]:
Solution 1 or 2 is fine. Monos still stop this, right?
---[Vivet on 4/3 @ 00:55 writes]:
Yes, it is blocked by monoliths.
---[Dynami on 4/3 @ 18:03 writes]:
Solutions 1 and 2 supported. Solution 3 not supported.
---[Vivet on 4/4 @ 19:53 writes]:
As someone requested clarity, I will point out that as solution 2 is a
reinvention of the skill, the resonance requirement would not exist - the
heartstone req would replace it entirely.
---[Tulemrah on 4/6 @ 20:12 writes]:
Solutions one and two supported. I like the idea of changing the focus of the
ability.
---[Celina on 4/7 @ 23:26 writes]:
Solution 1 only. Neither 2 nor 3 are needed. If you want empress, take tarot as
at tertiary. You don't make a report to give it all Researchers.
---[Celina on 4/7 @ 23:34 writes]:
Solution three is basically Conclave without conclave's delay or coven
prerequisite. I have an issue with an already superior guild taking skills from
other guilds rather than toning down their own.
---[Shuyin on 4/7 @ 23:42 writes]:
I was under the impression that convoke only worked within the same local area.
Halving a 4s summon down to 2 if they're in the same local area (which is where
the majority of its use will come from I'm sure) is a bit iffy unless there is a
room message on its activation and if it respected summon resistance.
---[Vivet on 4/8 @ 00:19 writes]:
@Celina, lust does not cost power to apply to someone, nor does flinging Empress
cost power, nor does Empress have the same delays. Solution 2 is not Empress. If
people object to the local area reduction in solution 2, then I don't mind that
so long as they clearly vocalise that they only support the solution with its
absence. Now, in regard to solution 3, Conclave is not a fair comparison since
Conclave extends to every coven member on the same continent. Solution 3 is more
comparable to a reversal of scissorkick, if anything, excepting that it can't be
used in all circumstances that scissor can be used in.
---[Vivet on 4/8 @ 00:24 writes]:
I will also note that solution 2 was drafted with the expectation that it would
respect summon resistance, but as that is not explicitly mentioned, I can
certainly include it for the sake of clarity should it be desired. I'll also
need to get back on whether or not it currently produces a room message for the
person being summoned or if it is simply the same message as Planar Summon.
---[Vivet on 4/8 @ 00:49 writes]:
Current Convoke summon messages: "You notice tiny glittering flecks appear in
the air, swirling around you." - "Tiny glittering flecks appear in the air and
swirl around Vivet."
---[Celina on 4/8 @ 02:31 writes]:
Solution 2 works exactly like empress for allies, save for a very brief 2 second
delay. I don't really care how much power it costs, the power cost does not make
it less similar to empress. It makes it more expensive, but functionally the
same (even though create heartstones before hand so that particular power cost
is fairly irrelevant). You're basically granting tarot utility benefits to
healers. Sorry, not a good idea. When is the last time you saw someone use
conclave across continent? Once during Ascension. That's not the practical
application for the skill. There's very little reason to need to summon allies
across a continent for 5 power. What it IS used for (though rarely) is summoning
back people that just got beckoned or radded into a room. Which exactly what
solution three intends to be. Only conclave has a couple of caveats in that only
one person on conclave at any given time, and when that person dies, it requires
a lot of time to make a new coven, and there is a significant delay to the
skill. Basically what you've done is taken conclave, remove the area summon
aspect that was never used, then also removed any downsides of the skill.
Certainly much comparable than a reverse scissor random movement skill that does
not exist. Making it stoppable by an icewall is not an acceptable caveat to what
would basically be tremendously useful for saving allies from summon skills.
---[Celina on 4/8 @ 02:34 writes]:
For the record, Researchers do not need ally saving skills to counter beckon and
the like. They have tremendous utility as it is, and if they want that sort of
ability, again, go tarot. Like every other guardian is required to do.
---[Vivet on 4/8 @ 03:02 writes]:
Power costs are entirely relevant when summon resistance comes into play,
especially in long, drawn out fights where you do want to conserve power when
possible. Additionally, heartstones vanish when someone dies, whether you use
the heartstone to revive them or not, so in any drawn scuffle you would need to
reapply heartstone (5p) every single time. Lust stays until someone rejects.
Nothing suggested here can be a true replacement for Empress, which additionally
would having enemy summoning aspects as well as ally.
---[Vivet on 4/8 @ 03:12 writes]:
I would also suggest that if you think that is how Conclave is supposed to work,
then you might find it more constructive to consider trying to adapt the idea
for yourself instead of accusing people of "stealing" your skills, when that may
have not been the specific intention behind Conclave anyways. Solution 3 has
already rather clearly not received support from other envoys. Perhaps you might
explore why, then consider if it might fit elsewhere.
---[Celina on 4/8 @ 03:25 writes]:
I don't think I ever said the proposed power cost was not "relevant." The point
is you don't replace or create hearstones in the middle of a fight, so the power
cost of a heartstone is not a limiting factor of the skill. Again, it does not
have to be a exact mirror of empress to be functionally very similar. You added
a power cost, doesn't mean the skill will be any less useful or diminish it's
massive value that is akin to empress. Though none of that touches on the
argument that Institute is a long, long way from needing this sort of buff. I
know why solution three has received no support, and have no intention of hyper
buffing conclave or adapting said solution in any future plans for conclave. It
has a niche, a valuable one when used correctly, and we could all benefit from
the lesson of "not everything has to be awesome all the time."
---[Kregarn on 4/8 @ 03:35 writes]:
One of the things that concerns me with this report is not neccessarily a guild
issue but a organization issue. Hallifax, by way of Aerochemantics, has a very
easy, passive way of splitting up attacking groups, something that's quite
essential in most combat sutuations. Changing this so that it summons all of
your allies is a definate no as this would allow you to split up your enemies
AND regroup far too easily. The second thing that bothers me is the idea that
you need a rescue skill at all which is generally available to everyone in the
guild. I'd be worried that a healer with a rescue is way too much. Finally, the
numbers in solution 2 don't make sense to me as you're saying that it requires
heartstones, would normally take 8 seconds but if they have heartstones it'd
take 4. Why have the 8 second possibility in there if you need heartstones to
complete the skill?
---[Vivet on 4/8 @ 03:41 writes]:
@Kregarn, it is possible for the Convoker to not be the person that has woven
the heartstone that the target has. The reduction would only apply if the
researcher casting Convoke at that time is the one who gave the target their
heartstone. If that was not abundantly clear, it can be reworded.
---[Vivet on 4/8 @ 03:44 writes]:
I will also note that heartstones are not regular objects you can just pass
around. One researcher cannot pass on the heartstone they hold for another to
some other researcher.
---[Ushaara on 4/8 @ 21:20 writes]:
I'm pretty sure I've raised my bugbear of Hallifax being the only org to lack a
'pull' skill other than rad for stand-off situations before. In the absence of
runist aeromancer the only option is to wait behind shield for opposing group to
enter, or engage in what might be unfavourable conditions. Convoke being an 8p
summon limited to a single resonanced person does not alleviate this problem.
While I'm likely flogging dead horse, ideal solution for me is to remove the
resonance requirement and make it functionally equivallent to Transmology Sing.
But of these three, support #2 or a targeted version of #3 for less power.
---[Kregarn on 4/9 @ 02:36 writes]:
I'll concede the heartstones point but I am not willing to support solution 2 at
this point nor do I support 3. I've no problem with solution 1.
---[Rivius on 4/9 @ 22:27 writes]:
Solution 1 seems ok with me. What if solution 2 were extremely fast but consumed
the heartstone, cost a bit more and stopped by monolith? Would that be useful?
Would it be OP?
---[Vivet on 4/10 @ 04:37 writes]:
Solution 2 and 3 have been editted and redrafted, respectively. This is merely a
notation to indicate such for those reading the report for the first time.
---[Kregarn on 4/11 @ 02:19 writes]:
I actually like solution 3 for the redraft as long as there's still a chance and
it's not fully rooted. Solution 1, 2, or 3 are fine with me. (Obviously, not all
of them at once.)
---[Celina on 4/12 @ 23:42 writes]:
Opposed to new solutions. Still not seeing an argument as to why need this sort
of buff, though there are several to be made against it. The guild brings so
much power and utility to group fights, it really does not need more.
---[Rivius on 4/13 @ 16:32 writes]:
I think solution 3 would actually be pretty okay if locked into a room. I
support any of these, but favour that one since it'll turn a faily unused skill
into something more useful.
---[Xenthos on 4/18 @ 01:53 writes]:
No to solution 1- there's no need for instant summoning even at maximum
timewarp. Just don't see a good reason for dropping it from 4s to instant.
Given your progression, the best solution would be a 2s delay, which is a bit
more reasonable. Solution 2 is not really a skill needed for the Institute in
addition to what you already have, as Celina has expounded upon in detail.
Solution 3 is interesting- as long as it has a respectable power cost, it could
be a decent addition. For example, Barrier (having much the same effect) costs
a full 10p.
---[Vivet on 4/18 @ 03:42 writes]:
Massive timewarp is not something that will be generated outside of shatterplex.
There's simply not a good means for a researcher to make it build/stick outside
of that burst. Anyone who is mobile enough to move away from a researcher
without curing timewarp down from massive is most likely doing something very
wrong. Even if convoke goes through, it is a 3 power summon, so they cannot be
timequaked right away. Unless you are suggesting the power cost also be reduced,
Xenthos, I think instant at massive is perfectly acceptable and don't see a
valid reason for arguing against it.
---[Synkarin on 4/25 @ 20:35 writes]:
I don't really see a valid reason for making the summon instantaneous. Are you
unable to chase people? Pretty much every other class has to deal with runners
and chasing (minus things like empress etc). There isn't really a room setup
like bards needing to maintain octave that researchers have or anything, so the
need of an instantaneous summon seems moot. I actually like solution 3 the most,
depending on how much summon resist it adds, I hope an appropiate powercost is
associated with it.
---[Vivet on 4/26 @ 00:35 writes]:
That's the whole point, Synkarin. With all the restrictions already in place
(only one person can have resonance at a time, efficiency limited by timewarp,
costs 3 power), there's virtually no incentive to actually use it over chasing
if it's going to prevent you from timequaking immediately -and- be delayed. That
said, I don't really like solution 1 and would prefer not to have it, as
mentioned in the first comment. Having a summon mechanic whose efficiency is
built around an end-kill condition is something I'd prefer to move away from.
That will not, however, prevent me from thinking it ridiculous to say that it is
asking for too much in the given context unless some of these restrictions and
costs go away.
---[Synkarin on 4/26 @ 03:19 writes]:
If you don't support it, then don't argue/suggest it? I disagree with your
assessment of the skill, and if you wish, can discuss it further with you in
person, but if we're both not in support of it, lets not argue it and instead
discuss what solutions we do like. I feel like solution 3 give convoke a niche,
unique place that wouldn't really be overpowered and would actually help
Hallifax out. I just wish whatever boost to summon resist it grants, is given an
appropiate powercost. Giving everyone summon resist , even just an extra level
of it, is definitely worth 10p.
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