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How I look at this really is this:
 
Does this affect my enjoyment of the game in the present. No? Who cares, I am going to keep playing.
 
When I stop enjoying the game no matter what the reason is when I will stop playing. What happens to carbine between those two points, doesn't matter. Because if I stop enjoying myself, the reason is really irrelevant.	
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			I agree with all the valid points you guys raise above, im worried that NCSOFT will just pull the plug on the servers like they have done on one of their previous games? I keep faith in Carbine though and will continue to play and level more alts.	
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To those who have been laid off, my sympathies for what is surely an upsetting and uncertain time for you. I hope that you're able to leverage your experience at Carbine into some new employment. The game is a good one overall, and I hope you feel proud of having been part of it.
 
To those who are wondering if this is a sign that NCSoft is getting ready to pull the plug--if NCSoft wanted to do that, the layoffs would've been sent out to 100% of the studio rather than 20-25%. Layoffs are a sign that they are trying to keep the studio afloat by the only means readily available to them--reducing expenses.	
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To those who are wondering if this is a sign that NCSoft is getting ready to pull the plug--if NCSoft wanted to do that, the layoffs would've been sent out to 100% of the studio rather than 20-25%. Layoffs are a sign that they are trying to keep the studio afloat by the only means readily available to them--reducing expenses.
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I love Wildstar.
I really dislike NCSoft.
 
Western MMO makers just can't win like this. It's completely illogical; MMO launches. Well received. Has issues that need addressing. Studio rallies around needed changes, accepts failings and sets on a path to fix it... only to have the dev team slashed, reducing resources and adding yet more time to deliverables. It's self-defeating.
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How I look at this really is this:
 
Does this affect my enjoyment of the game in the present. No? Who cares, I am going to keep playing.
 
When I stop enjoying the game no matter what the reason is when I will stop playing. What happens to carbine between those two points, doesn't matter. Because if I stop enjoying myself, the reason is really irrelevant.
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How I look at this really is this:
 
Does this affect my enjoyment of the game in the present. No? Who cares, I am going to keep playing.
 
When I stop enjoying the game no matter what the reason is when I will stop playing. What happens to carbine between those two points, doesn't matter. Because if I stop enjoying myself, the reason is really irrelevant.
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For those who are never up to date on how these types of things work let me give it to you step by step:
 	.) new mmo is announced 
 
2.) hype train starts a rollin
 
3.) release date announced to reave the hype train to overdrive
 
4.) game is released.................
 
5.) eventually there is massive lay offs because all the money invested was never payed back because mmo doesn't offer enough incentive to stay.
 
6.) 5-6 months later game becomes F2P because there is not enough staff to produce content by deadline and because they know even more jobs will be lost
 
7.) Other future devs will think that they learned what the past devs did wrong and make a new mmo
 
8.) rinse
 
9.) repeat
 
In short thanks to blizzard, mmos are now a hallow shell of themselves and those who have not broken the cycle of leaving then coming back by now are doomed to live in a hellish loop of misery and going back to the nostalgia days were mmos was actually a journey instead of the casual piece of work that it is now "inhale".
 
Am i saying wildstar sucks? no far from it, it was a fun game but it did not deliver what the trailers where portraying which was a call back to the golden days of yore. The sad truth is that F2P was inevitable no matter how much we were gonna deny it. The only way carbine would have survived on a sub based model is if carbine didn't make a deal with the devil that is publishers. They were better of making a few games first to get thier company into the groove then start slowly making wildstar in their spare time. 
 
Would it have been the way that it is now? no, but at least there would be no publisher shark axing your company because they didn't get their payment and ruins you.
 
If you want my advice, don't bother with mmos anymore. your better off looking for alternative games that are made to last such as terraria?, path of exile, GTA (any of em), FTL, bravery default( if you like jrpgs), Diablo 2 ( if you have friends), Dragon age origins, starbound (if it is ever freakin finished), etc.
 
My regards to the employees who just lost thier jobs. May you find other work soon............. or at least eat a heart of a dragon	!	
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Same here, it seems like some people are so scared of a game failing while they're playing, they have to predict based on guesses what will happen to the game so they can jump ship before it sinks.
It confuses and annoy me.
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Sorry to here about ppl losing their jobs...business is business, it's really all about the bottom line.  That being said, I really hope NCSoft keeps the lights on for this game.  There are problems, some are pretty big: gear RNG, PVP/Warplots, and more, but damn, it does take time to build something as epic as an MMO, especially one as deep as W*...sooooo many tweaks and growing pains throughout the infancy and lifetime of a brand new AAA MMO.   And maybe Carbine did listen to "too many whiteknights" in early development.. And maybe some of the lead guys bought into their own "vision" at the expense of the game (to start), but in these instagrat times, I'm not even sure if WoW was newly released 6 months ago that they would do well by having to deal with fixing everything that was "broken" and the demand for perfection form the get go, sighh...kids theses days...and yes, I know there is alot of work to be done, but it's worth it for this game.
 
Imo, this game needs to stay alive; if Carbine really listens to what their current DEDICATED player base wants, they can pull this game out of it's current state and level off, if not grow, the player base.  I've seen this with GW2 and SWTOR:  newly released games that set the bar too high, only to roll it back and actually make it a better game, while growing.  Honestly I don't think this game is as fargone as some seem to think...there is a solid base of players who really love this game, who may be enough to keep it afloat, but maybe people are going to have to reign in their expectations of what this game initially promised, and let it come at a more realistic, organic pace.
 
Idk, as I said, there are problems, but the foundation is here, right now, for a great game imo, it would be very sad to see it go...maybe I'll go win the lottery and "whiteknight" this mofo with my own damn money  :P ...that's how much I actually like/believe in the concept of this game.
 
Sorry again to the good, hard working folks who got let go...hopefully they'll all be able to look back and see that this game took off and becomes what it can be.	
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It's make or break time with drop 3. I think that this drop is going to have to be wildly successful for the game to survive. All of the lead designers have been cut. That is basically hobbling your design and content release capabilities significantly. The lead designers are the guys responsible for putting out the majority of new content when a drop occurs.
 
Where does Wildstar go from here? It's clear that NCSoft has a plan moving forwards, a plan that doesn't involve content releases from the lead designers. Cutting those guys right before drop 3 means that most of the heavy design on drop 3 has been completed by the lead designers already, enough that they can cut them and release the work they did on drop 3 without them.
 
With the leads gone what design is available beyond drop 3? Not much unless drop 3 is wildly successful. There is also a high likely hood that the game is about to be shutdown and that this cut is simply phase one of the shutdown sequence. If that is the case and they are shutting things down, you can bet they will at first milk out every dollar of subscriber money that is remaining. It would be a 6 month shutdown sequence with no more content releases beyond drop 3.
 
There could be some remaining bug fix patches, but as for content drops this would be the end.
 
Let's hope that the above is somehow wrong, but the president, Frosts job, and all the lead design positions have been closed with no plan to replace them. Many would say that a shutdown is underway based on this alone.
 
For those of us that love the game let's hope for a miracle to get this game back in the black. Otherwise I am afraid we are already in the sunset of a Wildstar.	
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It's make or break time with drop 3. I think that this drop is going to have to be wildly successful for the game to survive. All of the lead designers have been cut. That is basically hobbling your design and content release capabilities significantly. The lead designers are the guys responsible for putting out the majority of new content when a drop occurs.
 
Where does Wildstar go from here? It's clear that NCSoft has a plan moving forwards, a plan that doesn't involve content releases from the lead designers. Cutting those guys right before drop 3 means that most of the heavy design on drop 3 has been completed by the lead designers already, enough that they can cut them and release the work they did on drop 3 without them.
 
With the leads gone what design is available beyond drop 3? Not much unless drop 3 is wildly successful. There is also a high likely hood that the game is about to be shutdown and that this cut is simply phase one of the shutdown sequence. If that is the case and they are shutting things down, you can bet they will at first milk out every dollar of subscriber money that is remaining. It would be a 6 month shutdown sequence with no more content releases beyond drop 3.
 
There could be some remaining bug fix patches, but as for content drops this would be the end.
 
Let's hope that the above is somehow wrong, but the president, Frosts job, and all the lead design positions have been closed with no plan to replace them. Many would say that a shutdown is underway based on this alone.
 
For those of us that love the game let's hope for a miracle to get this game back in the black. Otherwise I am afraid we are already in the sunset of a Wildstar.
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True. Played hours are so low anymore that you cant find it even in the top 100 in Raptr.
 
Anyway imho game must turn B2P with Drop 3. Many ppl already bought the box, so it will be a good move to let them play without a sub. This will give life to the game and keep the F2P crowd away. As for those who will say "i will quit if it turns B2P etc" guys you are the minority. 90% of the ppl who bought or try the game quit a long time now and game cant continue with less than 10%. Btw don't ask where i found those numbers, we all know there is no source for them, but we also know its the truth.
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Imho if they had close to 100k paying subs they would be extremely happy. They would remain as it is as a team and waited for Megaservers, Drop 3 and other improvements to bring ppl back. Sadly there is no such thing in the horizon.
I m not saying WS could not be a great game in the long term and bring ppl back, but in its current state and with the current sub numbers it cant go far. Its not only the problems of the game and the low pop, but its also the bad words all over about it. In every forum, in every gaming site.
Once again i ll express my humble opinion and i ll say that with Drop 3, the much needed HUGE Optimizations etc etc, WS needs to turn to B2P ASAP!
 
More drivel that your making up as you go along.
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This is Wildstar at the moment :
 
 
This is very bad news ... very bad.  :mellow:	
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According to glassdoor.com (take it, or not) leadership definetly seems to be the problem, I can think of one person that I will never invest in another mmo with him at the lead of that department. 
http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Carbine-Studios-Reviews-E587246.htm
 
I do wish those other employees, the non decision makers, the best of luck in all they do.......and they should all go apply at CITYSTATE for CU mmorpg right now!  :)
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True. Played hours are so low anymore that you cant find it even in the top 100 in Raptr.
 
Anyway imho game must turn B2P with Drop 3. Many ppl already bought the box, so it will be a good move to let them play without a sub. This will give life to the game and keep the F2P crowd away. As for those who will say "i will quit if it turns B2P etc" guys you are the minority. 90% of the ppl who bought or try the game quit a long time now and game cant continue with less than 10%. Btw don't ask where i found those numbers, we all know there is no source for them, but we also know its the truth.
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The truth is that if WildStar went B2P, Carbine would immediately cut off the revenue generated from subscriptions and CREDD with no promise of future box sales to make up for the loss. Now, a B2P model with optional sub that grants significant benefits to subscribers would work. Even when games "go F2P" they almost always offer an option to keep people subscribed to the game. They're not going to just cut off that revenue stream.
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			Wow great post On GLASSDOOR above! It's very clear you are an ex-Wildstar employee or acquainted with one- which is good. Thank-you for bringing some clarity to these muddied waters.	
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Wow great post OP. It's very clear you are an ex-Wildstar employee or acquainted with one- which is good. Thank-you for bringing some clarity to these muddied waters.
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It's make or break time with drop 3. I think that this drop is going to have to be wildly successful for the game to survive. All of the lead designers have been cut. That is basically hobbling your design and content release capabilities significantly. The lead designers are the guys responsible for putting out the majority of new content when a drop occurs.
 
Where does Wildstar go from here? It's clear that NCSoft has a plan moving forwards, a plan that doesn't involve content releases from the lead designers. Cutting those guys right before drop 3 means that most of the heavy design on drop 3 has been completed by the lead designers already, enough that they can cut them and release the work they did on drop 3 without them.
 
With the leads gone what design is available beyond drop 3? Not much unless drop 3 is wildly successful. There is also a high likely hood that the game is about to be shutdown and that this cut is simply phase one of the shutdown sequence. If that is the case and they are shutting things down, you can bet they will at first milk out every dollar of subscriber money that is remaining. It would be a 6 month shutdown sequence with no more content releases beyond drop 3.
 
There could be some remaining bug fix patches, but as for content drops this would be the end.
 
Let's hope that the above is somehow wrong, but the president, Frosts job, and all the lead design positions have been closed with no plan to replace them. Many would say that a shutdown is underway based on this alone.
 
For those of us that love the game let's hope for a miracle to get this game back in the black. Otherwise I am afraid we are already in the sunset of a Wildstar.
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Where did it say that all the lead design guys were cut? I must have missed that.
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What the hell is with everyone saying Wildstar is a sinking ship? Or like it's dead already.
 
They are going through a cycle of MMO's where people leave/get laid off after release, just NCSoft who happen to be ginormous Dickbutts who like to make the layoffs even harder to suit themselves.
 
There is so much speculation and absolute fiction in this thread that it's making my head spin.	
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Where did it say that all the lead design guys were cut? I must have missed that.
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After reading the employee reviews on GLASSDOOR it's very clear that some management at Wildstar are terrible at what they do. Some employees make it sound like interdepartmental warfare is a way of life in their office and that their managers are all guys just like Mr.Bean.
 
As players we can only hope that the hatchet man they brought in to fire people, got rid of the ones that were causing the problems. I am not sure if a lead designer counts as management, but if so let's hope that those lead designers they sacked were some of the 'Mr.Bean' type of leaders that are supposedly running the show there.
 
All the players just want to play a good game and have good content. We don't really care if your manager is Paris Hilton or if Mike Donatelli goes through all the snow in L.A. like a Dyson vacuum cleaner. Please get your house in order so we can all get back to what we love- Wildstar!	
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Good post Lightwish, that's exactly what I have been thinking too, as cruel as it sounds.
 
But we do love wildstar and we want it to succeed! :D	
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It's make or break time with drop 3. I think that this drop is going to have to be wildly successful for the game to survive. All of the lead designers have been cut. That is basically hobbling your design and content release capabilities significantly. The lead designers are the guys responsible for putting out the majority of new content when a drop occurs.
 
Where does Wildstar go from here? It's clear that NCSoft has a plan moving forwards, a plan that doesn't involve content releases from the lead designers. Cutting those guys right before drop 3 means that most of the heavy design on drop 3 has been completed by the lead designers already, enough that they can cut them and release the work they did on drop 3 without them.
 
With the leads gone what design is available beyond drop 3? Not much unless drop 3 is wildly successful. There is also a high likely hood that the game is about to be shutdown and that this cut is simply phase one of the shutdown sequence. If that is the case and they are shutting things down, you can bet they will at first milk out every dollar of subscriber money that is remaining. It would be a 6 month shutdown sequence with no more content releases beyond drop 3.
 
There could be some remaining bug fix patches, but as for content drops this would be the end.
 
Let's hope that the above is somehow wrong, but the president, Frosts job, and all the lead design positions have been closed with no plan to replace them. Many would say that a shutdown is underway based on this alone.
 
For those of us that love the game let's hope for a miracle to get this game back in the black. Otherwise I am afraid we are already in the sunset of a Wildstar.
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I don't think anyone who is worth a darn and is being realistic is saying that Drop 3 will bring players back "en masse". That's just the first step in the right direction on the slow road to recovery. So that seems like a bit of an easily constructed strawman for you to knock down. As for "having better priorities over X"/"anyone would do a better job than Carbine if they listened to people", I see that claim made quite a bit. But nothing outside of Itemization, and small quality of life changes. With at most mentioning the concept of "game shattering bugs" that need to go. Unless I've clearly missed it, and it's well hidden, there's very little elaboration from the people who claim to "want the game to succeed".
 
Just a strange absence of "this game sucks" obvious trolling, the sudden emergence of Dogpiling Doom and Gloom that's called "honest critique", and vague "fixitfixitfixitfixit!" shouting. While making sure to say at some point that they like the game.	
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Honestly, that glassdoor page gives me a little hope.
At least they're not flopping about wondering where all their hard work is going.
Folk know what needs to be fixed, and I just hope those folk stay stick around long enough to see the company though the changes it needs.
I love this game, not just because the combat is fun, or the aesthetic is timeless, but also because the developers have just been so damn radical, and I don't wanna lose any more of the radical ones. ;~;
I want to hug you all!	
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I don't think anyone who is worth a darn and is being realistic is saying that Drop 3 will bring players back "en masse". That's just the first step in the right direction on the slow road to recovery. So that seems like a bit of an easily constructed strawman for you to knock down. As for "having better priorities over X"/"anyone would do a better job than Carbine if they listened to people", I see that claim made quite a bit. But nothing outside of Itemization, and small quality of life changes. With at most mentioning the concept of "game shattering bugs" that need to go. There's very little elaboration from the "people who claim to want the game to succeed".
 
Just Dogpiling Doom and Gloom that's called "honest critique" and vague "fixitfixitfixitfixit!" shouting. While making sure to say at some point that they like the game, so as not to be called a troll.
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So basically you are calling me a troll because I am giving my opinion which does not agree with yours? You know what that's called? Its called being a whiteknight. At this point in time, none cares what you whiteknights say as it was you guys that mislead, and still continue to mislead, Carbine into into thinking that everything is fine with the game. See, just this post alone alludes to the fact that outside of itemization, you think there is nothing with the game. 
 
If you would open your eyes and read the forums, you would see there has been plenty of good suggestions on how to make the game better. You saying there is none bothers the cupcake out of me because, in your mind, those people who have taken the time to post their suggestions are worthless and trolls. I have already given suggestions I feel strongly about, like how the rune changes should not have any rng. I don't have to repeat them here as I am replying to someone on a different topic about Drop 3 making or breaking the game....which is something everyone who is not a whiteknight agrees with. 
 
The reason players giving any kind of feedback feels the need to put in that "they like the game at some point" is because whiteknights like yourself will take issue with the feedback or suggestion being given. You have now even transcended other whiteknights in that you don't even care if they like the game or not.  In your mind saying anything negative about the game = Troll. You think players, at this point of the game, are still playing because they don't like the game? News flash, everyone who doesn't like the game nor sees any potential has already left. If anything, you sir, are the troll. 
 
Also, please don't change what I've written. This is what I wrote "Anyone who plays the game can come up with a list of priorities better than Carbine management can."   Listen /= Play   They are different words. 
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No, I actually agree with the legitimate concerns. So take your worthless and phony "hurt feelings"/"outrage" elsewhere. You also left out the part of my post. So much for "not changing what someone has written."
 
And there are also players who have gone on record stating that they've used CREDD to keep their account active for several months, that now use this time to troll. People who lump themselves in with people who have legitimate critiques, but instead dogpile and give no actual suggestions. Who fly off the handle and reflexively call people "whiteknights" numerous times. Which is among the latest of trendy memes from low-functioning individuals. Similar to how the flatout terrible players in WoW lumped themselves in with actual "casuals" and demanded that the game was changed/dumbed down to their liking. Because "they were the voice of the subscriber base."
 
And instead of knee-jerking, try reading my post. Because I actually never gave my opinion of what I find wrong with the game. The itemization was in reference to the complaints of others. Not my own.
 
Even though technically, that is one.
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So basically you are calling me a troll because I am giving my opinion which does not agree with yours? You know what that's called? Its called being a whiteknight. At this point in time, none cares what you whiteknights say as it was you guys that mislead, and still continue to mislead, Carbine into into thinking that everything is fine with the game. See, just this post alone alludes to the fact that outside of itemization, you think there is nothing with the game.
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Hey first of all, shut up.  This is a "we hate Carbine" thread, not a we hate each other.  Now is the time to rise up and take control of our beloved game.  Those in power are scrambling. It is now our time to vote for new leaders and new ideas, to resurrect this game from the spiraling deathdive that was the old Lead's vision.
 
It's time for new people, that listen to the 40 players that are still playing.
 
We must unite!  Omni slots for everyone! No more attunement!   Release drop 3, we can handle a few bugs!  We have now for ages!  
 
The morale is at an all time low~ even if Drop 3 was a major fail, it wouldn't matter!  We'd still no longer have RNG slots!
 
Bu bu bu baaa! bu ba ba baaa!  Maybe it's time the devs start listening!	
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			Can we make it a "we hate NCSoft" thread instead? 	
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As usual. You call someone out for their dumb post and they deflect. I guess you read internet trolling 101...or you think you're being a smartass?? 
 
What part of your post did i miss that I did not cover in my reply to you? Quote it to me.
 
"And there are also players who have gone on record stating that they've used CREDD to keep their account active for several months, that now use this time to troll. People who lump themselves in with people who have legitimate critiques, but instead dogpile and give no actual suggestions. Who fly off the handle and reflexively call people "whiteknights" numerous times. Which is among the latest of trendy memes from low-functioning individuals."
 
So now instead of calling me troll, you are saying I'm dogpiling with those who are using their CREDD time to troll? Wow....what sort of mental gymnastics did you use to come to that conclusion? You are the perfect definition of a deluded white knight. 
 
Also, what sort of suggestion should I offer when I'm replying to someone else on a different topic about Drop 3 making or breaking the game? You say I missed part of your post....but then you completely miss the part of my post which completely invalidates the drivel you have written. You shouldn't insult yourself by calling others low-functioning individuals when you yourself are below that in mental capacity.
 
 
"Similar to how the flatout terrible players in WoW lumped themselves in with actual "casuals" and demanded that the game was changed/dumbed down to their liking. Because "they were the voice of the subscriber base.""
 
Mmmm...you must be super intelligent. Most casuals, WoW players or not, already left the game. Which is...mmmm...why the game is in such a state? 
 
 
"And instead of knee-jerking, try reading my post. Because I actually never gave my opinion of what I find wrong with the game. The itemization was in reference to the complaints of others. Not my own."
 
I did read your passive aggressive post. You can deflect until the cows come home. None cares about your opinion because it will boil down to "wowtards and nothing is wrong with the game....except when someone call me out imma say itemization"
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Can we make it a "we hate NCSoft" thread instead? 
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Are you freakin serious? Someone disagrees with you and already they're a whiteknight? You need to learn the meaning and stop tossing it around like it's candy.
Did you even read Drhanell's post properly? He was in fact agreeing with you in his opening sentence then going on to explain why. (That most people bandy around these forums with doom and gloom because they paid for their account with CREDD and are able to troll the crap out of people)
 
 
No, again you call people who defend some parts of the game "white knights". If someone disagrees with them that means they have a difference in opinion, not that they're licking carbines chocolate starfish like it's a yummy treat.
The people Drharnell is referencing in his post are people who are CONSTANTLY being negative and being apathetic for the sake of apathetic. They don't play anymore, they just stick around to make loud noises occasionally and try to ruin any positivity around here, aka trolls.
 
I really think you need to work on your reading comprehension and stop jumping down people's throats whenever they mention the word troll... I mean he didn't even direct it at you bro.
 
And as I am writing this you reply with yet more drivel, lets see:
 
 
 
All of your posts have been dumb with the exception from the first one on this page where you gave some good, honest insight into what you think will happen.
 
 
 
He is doing so because you pretty much flew off the handle when he didn't even say anything out of line to you. So yes, definition of this kind of reaction = trollish.
 
 
 
Go back again and read his response which just so happened to be after yours. You're not in the right place to be talking about mental capacity, especially with flinging such bile at a person who just did something that these forums are for... having an opinion and discussing things with other people... who have opinions.
 
 
 
I think it's important you read this for yourself, your responses to Drharnell is no short than rude, dramatic and in all honesty completely childlike. You went for him for no other reason than for putting "troll" in his post.
 
Oh and before you call me a whiteknight, I'm not. I also don't think you're a troll, but I do think your reactions are not needed here. This thread is not for being rude to other people for having an opinion, it's a discussion about the poor 60 employees who have lost their jobs and ultimately had to go home to tell their families that night that they no longer had a steady income in their pockets. 
So stop, thanks.
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Nope. NCSoft would not have made such heavy reductions if Wildstar was as successful as projected.  It's business bro, not speculation.
Everyone hates NCSoft, but they're just the bank roll.  They expect results and $$$, of which they are getting nothing.  They're just cutting their losses.  
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Are you freakin serious? Someone disagrees with you and already they're a whiteknight? You need to learn the meaning and stop tossing it around like it's candy.
Did you even read Drhanell's post properly? He was in fact agreeing with you in his opening sentence then going on to explain why. (That most people bandy around these forums with doom and gloom because they paid for their account with CREDD and are able to troll the crap out of people)
 
 
No, again you call people who defend some parts of the game "white knights". If someone disagrees with them that means they have a difference in opinion, not that they're licking carbines chocolate starfish like it's a yummy treat.
The people Drharnell is referencing in his post are people who are CONSTANTLY being negative and being apathetic for the sake of apathetic. They don't play anymore, they just stick around to make loud noises occasionally and try to ruin any positivity around here, aka trolls.
 
I really think you need to work on your reading comprehension and stop jumping down people's throats whenever they mention the word troll... I mean he didn't even direct it at you bro.
 
And as I am writing this you reply with yet more drivel, lets see:
 
 
 
All of your posts have been dumb with the exception from the first one on this page where you gave some good, honest insight into what you think will happen.
 
 
 
He is doing so because you pretty much flew off the handle when he didn't even say anything out of line to you. So yes, definition of this kind of reaction = trollish.
 
 
 
Go back again and read his response which just so happened to be after yours. You're not in the right place to be talking about mental capacity, especially with flinging such bile at a person who just did something that these forums are for... having an opinion and discussing things with other people... who have opinions.
 
 
 
I think it's important you read this for yourself, your responses to Drharnell is no short than rude, dramatic and in all honesty completely childlike. You went for him for no other reason than for putting "troll" in his post.
 
Oh and before you call me a whiteknight, I'm not. I also don't think you're a troll, but I do think your reactions are not needed here. This thread is not for being rude to other people for having an opinion, it's a discussion about the poor 60 employees who have lost their jobs and ultimately had to go home to tell their families that night that they no longer had a steady income in their pockets. 
So stop, thanks.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This. All of this.
 
I have very little time for easily unwound derps, with severe cases of autism and poor reading ability. Especially when they're being agreed with.
 
 
Aw....you poor, oppressed, strawmanning, Matyr. No one listens to you. Man, PLEASE! Take this pretentious, "wannabe self-important", nonsense elsewhere. I assume that the part about it being "the fine the way it is" was a claim directed at me in a roundabout fashion. Since you're quoting someone who is talking to me. If that's the case, you clearly can't read. Because I (nor do I think anyone in this thread) has even stated that things are fine the way they are.
----
			I may have no bones in this "fight" as you call it, but seeing someone being spoken to like crap is a reason to step in, especially when you're being out of line dude..	
----
			edit-goodbye and goodluck	
----
			
Can I be the voice of reason here?
 
There are two ways to present a negative, constructive opinion about a game.
- Some people go through every thread and whine and whine, act aggressively towards others and then are responded to by people who disagree in great force. Start drama.
- Others write a long, well thought out opinion and present them to the forum, then ask the "white knights" WHY they disagree with the opinion, and further discuss things whilst taking criticism to their own criticism.
 
There is also two ways to respond to criticism in a game forum if you disagree. 
- The white knight: bash the person relentlessly for being an idiot. Swear at them. Tell them the game is perfect. Report them for no reason. Call them a troll and gtfo. Go through every single thread and look for people who say something negative and bash them.
- Respond with a well written response outlining why you disagree with the opinion and why. Create a discussion then come to an agreement, whether it is to agree to disagree or to one person's way of thinking. Either that or not respond further.
 
This forum has long been inundated with the first type of people, in fact it's saturated so much that most posters here can't seem to differentiate between a good post and a bad post. Sometimes constructive criticism gets buried by the people who agree or disagree with them by being so unreasonable and rude to others, and it works the other way too.
 
The problem here is equal for both "haters" and "white knights". Both are the reason that people choose to not carry on playing after they seek the forums for advice.
 
Unfortunately, there is no "grow up and be an adult" switch on the forums to get rid of these posts.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Can I be the voice of reason here?
 
There are two ways to present a negative, constructive opinion about a game.
- Some people go through every thread and whine and whine, act aggressively towards others and then are responded to by people who disagree in great force. Start drama.
- Others write a long, well thought out opinion and present them to the forum, then ask the "white knights" WHY they disagree with the opinion, and further discuss things whilst taking criticism to their own criticism.
 
There is also two ways to respond to criticism in a game forum if you disagree. 
- The white knight: bash the person relentlessly for being an idiot. Swear at them. Tell them the game is perfect. Report them for no reason. Call them a troll and gtfo. Go through every single thread and look for people who say something negative and bash them.
- Respond with a well written response outlining why you disagree with the opinion and why. Create a discussion then come to an agreement, whether it is to agree to disagree or to one person's way of thinking. Either that or not respond further.
 
This forum has long been inundated with the first type of people, in fact it's saturated so much that most posters here can't seem to differentiate between a good post and a bad post. Sometimes constructive criticism gets buried by the people who agree or disagree with them by being so unreasonable and rude to others, and it works the other way too.
 
The problem here is equal for both "haters" and "white knights". Both are the reason that people choose to not carry on playing after they seek the forums for advice.
 
Unfortunately, there is no "grow up and be an adult" switch on the forums to get rid of these posts.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
i was just highlighting my feedback over the last months, but *cupcake*you man *cupcake*you people like you killed this game, telling people with a different opinion to get out since day 1, calling them names belittling them
carbine fires near half its staff and you are STILL telling people to leave
*cupcake*you man, im torn beside wanting to watch wildstar burn at this point to see people like you put in your place, or to let it live so the cancer
of your blind "vision" doesnt spread to other games.
----
			I like how people continue to yell at each other on a damn post about staff reductions at Carbine. Welcome to the lock and thanks for killing any kind of constructive potential this post might have had.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Looking at the ptr notes....there are a ton of small fixes everywhere....but honestly most of those bugs didn't make players quit. It was the major system philosophies that did....and one of the system philosophies, Drop 3 rune changes, is merely a band aid to a bad design.
 
...
 
Drop 3 is completely backwards. They somehow thought that fixing small bugs over fixing core issues is going to make the game better. Sure there are many things in drop 3 that do matter, but it seems like the majority are small bug fixes I never even knew existed. Its like instead of treating my gun shot wound first, they start treating my sprained foot. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The realization that itemization was broken beyond repair came too late to make it into Drop 3.  It's an interconnected system that affects a broad swath of features and they need to rip the whole thing out and redesign it from the ground up.  That's not a small job by any measure and one very likely cause regressions and unintended consequences.  Hell, if you play WOW look at what 6.0.2 did.
 
The changes that are coming with D3 are the ones they thought were safe enough to release independently, so at least we have something.
 
No, D3 won't be the Hail Mary patch.  I cringe every time somebody makes another "It's their last chance" post.  I fear that it's true in some respects.  But there's a small ray of hope for D4.  Come January the MMO tourists that flocked back to WOW and TOR for their content drops will be looking for something else and if D4 can deliver something that appeals to the masses they might get enough of an audience back.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You're assuming that january is still a realistic time-table.  With as massive a patch as D3 is, the likelihood of things breaking is quite high.  This means more development time to fix what the patch broke...coupled with the recent layoffs, I don't think we can take anything time-related for granted.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
edit-goodbye and goodluck
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
First comment I am actually glad to see.
 
*waves goodbye *
 
Don't let the door hit you on the way out ;)
----
			
I've been playing me some Conker's Bad Fur Day on my still working N64. A boss said something that reminded me of bad designs..
"I am the great mighty poo and I am going to throw my shit at you!" Reminded me of RNG..
I came here looking for the 100 pages of bug fixes flaunted like three weeks ago and seen this thread instead.
A said day indeed it seems, the support team that handles tickets sucks so I can't say I'm surprised. 
P.S. I am still waiting to read that epic amount of fixes in that 100 pages of patch notes so chop chop.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I've been playing me some Conker's Bad Fur Day on my still working N64. A boss said something that reminded me of bad designs..
"I am the great mighty poo and I am going to throw my shit at you!" Reminded me of RNG..
I came here looking for the 100 pages of bug fixes flaunted like three weeks ago and seen this thread instead.
A said day indeed it seems, the support team that handles tickets sucks so I can't say I'm surprised. 
P.S. I am still waiting to read that epic amount of fixes in that 100 pages of patch notes so chop chop.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The irony of making this statement in a thread about layoffs is off the charts. *facepalm*
 
Cheering as another customer walks out the door seems wildly off-topic and counterproductive as well.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Here you go. These have been available since the 10th...
 
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/115585-mystery-of-the-genesis-prime-update-notes/
----
			
Perhaps if someone actually started listening to their employees and people trying to save this game...
 
Good luck to everyone that got a bad deal handed to them in this.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Slightly disingenuous as those are not even close the final notes. Medic changes in those notes for example only include field changes and not the straight nerf to Gamma Rays. Those notes also include "changes" that have already been patched into the live game in previous patches.
 
But better luck next time.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I don't see how..
 
The Article is here
http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/2014-10-10-state-of-the-game/
 
Link for the 100 pages he was asking about is in the article.
 
If Carbine didn't include them all that's on them. Just sharing what the have offered up for viewing. Don't kill the messenger...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You're assuming that january is still a realistic time-table.  With as massive a patch as D3 is, the likelihood of things breaking is quite high.  This means more development time to fix what the patch broke...coupled with the recent layoffs, I don't think we can take anything time-related for granted.
----
			
Sorry to hear the news, wish you all the best !!!
 
BTW this is my personal opinions why alot of people are gone...
 
1) Wildstar 20&40 man raid are the epic fail !!! Has to gather 20man to raids 3-4 times a week already killing the game while the population of server is getting worst each month.
    The 40man raid is totally a joke, has to gather 40man (which had completed the GA 20man raid) to stick to the schedule @@" ~LOL !!!
 
2) Leveling in Wildstar is so frustrated. Quests/story are so boring and have to do tons of them to up a level !!
 
3) Dungeons drops is bad and the difficulty is killing most of the players.  Hard to find a party, all of the players stop doing dungeons once they get their attunement or achievement. 
 
* Please excuse my poor english ^^"	
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{| class="blockquote"
Sorry to hear the news, wish you all the best !!!
 
BTW this is my personal opinions why alot of people are gone...
 
1) Wildstar 20&40 man raid are the epic fail !!! Has to gather 20man to raids 3-4 times a week already killing the game while the population of server is getting worst each month.
    The 40man raid is totally a joke, has to gather 40man (which had completed the GA 20man raid) to stick to the schedule @@" ~LOL !!!
 
2) Leveling in Wildstar is so frustrated. Quests/story are so boring and have to do tons of them to up a level !!
 
3) Dungeons drops is bad and the difficulty is killing most of the players.  Hard to find a party, all of the players stop doing dungeons once they get their attunement or achievement. 
 
* Please excuse my poor english ^^"
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
People dont run dungeons as pug generally because they dont want to teach mechanics to newbies.  The difficulty isn't hard lol.  Getting random strangers that know nothing about the game and the dungeon they are in now thats hard.
 
How many newbies understand I got first, I got second.... how many newbies ask what that means?  Its not a difficulty barrier its a communication barrier.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It's an ego barrier. No one wants to teach the new people, so the new people never learn, so they never do PUGs because they don't want to be "that guy" and then they quit because they're frustrated that they "can't" do dungeons, all because some people are unwilling to help someone through for the first time.
 
And yes, I know, I know, the player should find a guild, blah blah blah... how exactly is a player supposed to find a guild when the best opportunity to meet people is in PUGs... which don't happen because "lol noobs"
----
			
Only the best wishes for the folks and their families that lost their jobs. Hope they land on their feet.
 
The only thing I wonder about this, if this is "Business as usual" and "Part of the dev cycle", why is the publisher pulling the trigger? You'd think it would be the developer changing focus, yet this is clearly driven by NCSoft,	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is a definite issue, not just in WS but in MMOs in general. I still remember the first times I decided to tank and heal... I was incredibly nervous because I didn't want to fail the team. Add in WS's steep learning curve and it's no surprise that new players get frustrated by basic dungeons.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I can definitely see the learning curve in this game being a huge part of the problem. It's not that the mechanics are necessarily too hard for people, i think it's more an issue of the game not doing such a great job of teaching people what to do. It's basically like getting thrown straight into the deep end of the pool...some people will learn right away, and others will fight their way out coughing and sputtering, not wanting try swimming again.
----
			
Mae is mean just pretty much described my first dungeon experience today.
 
It made me slink back to housing :D	
----
			
I'm sorry to hear what has happen to the staff, but I hope that they really get this game flowing again. Gearwise it seems for tanks AP is better than SP while it's acceptable for healers. The game was released to early in my opinion and as many others have said before release, but that's probably NCSOFT doing. I guess not many elements have been tested, but one of the main things  I've dislike about the game was
Dye cost
Attunement Grind especially this early in the game
Support Gear for tanks especially in pvp overall
Slow experience in pve content than it is in pvp
Dungeon rng bad loot
Medal System period because it'll lead to bad players trying to say I'm the best
I can also add bugs and character models proportions clipping through armor to the list, but that's an easy fix that will be taken care of.
 
Anyways I don't know what's the future of Wild Star going to be like, but I doubt it'll die and be plugged. I just think as I always said that it's going to have a slow start to become popular again. The combat is fine to me cause I can adapt to anything if I'm interested.
 
However I just hope they take the time and truly design this game properly to what it's suppose to be and then get tougher towards the end.	
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			I just wish people would have left this thread be about the people who had lost their job, there are plenty of other doom and gloom threads to have arguments about the state of the game in.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I just wish people would have left this thread be about the people who had lost their job, there are plenty of other doom and gloom threads to have arguments about the state of the game in.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I just wish people would have left this thread be about the people who had lost their job, there are plenty of other doom and gloom threads to have arguments about the state of the game in.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Considering how the overzealous mods are hellbent on funneling certain types of discussions into one place, it's not like the result would be much different if people had done this in other threads.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
All I can say while I have not been fired yet in my career I have had to let people go and I can empathize with the situation, especially when it is situations beyond that employees control (see GFC), and if I was one of these employees and decided to look into this thread I would be a lot happier if it was a lot more:
 
We are sorry to hear you go, best of luck
We really like certain things in game or game in general
 
Then to having a typical (white knight + people who genuinely like the game) vs (the realist + anti-wildstar) blah fest. I normally am critical of a lot of things in this game but not so much in this thread because that is just wrong.
----
			i am not sorry to see layoffs at carbine the fact is they screwed up badly. Lacking support for anyone who does not live in the continental united states or Europe. Poor content updates broken class systems and a lack of forethought for the month after launch. Note to carbine nc soft thrives on initial box sale and micro transactions in western markets going down a sub model screwed you and inturn every gamer who decided to stay. personally i waited for 3 months for you to get your act together but nope you just *cupcake*ed up  PS better use of assets is to fire tony ray who is nothing but useless divert his pay check to someone who can save the game from yourselves. at least frost was smart enough to leave the ship like the rat *cupcake* he was. 	
----
			
I just read some of the reviews on glassdoor. To be honest none of this surprises me.
 
I worked at Rockstar North for a few years, from GTA 4 onwards to GTA 5,  and I have to be honest, although I personally didn't love the management team and my personal department was abit crap with a cliquey leadership and horrible treatment of its staff; the actual upper leadership of the studio were excellent at what they did.
 
The guy in charge was a tad odd, but his vision for the game was crystal clear and he knew what he was doing. (despite the entire QA team disagreeing with adding the buzzard and sticky mines to multiplayer) and the dev team was talented and committed. The actual flow of design choices between the departments were open and their was a sense of "all in it together", when crunch time came.
 
This really mattered for the insanely long hours you had to pull before launch and although the pay wasn't epic, it was still good.
 
I dread to think what that experience would have been like without the clarity of vision trickling down from the upper ranks to all of the departments and to be honest, the reviews on glassdoor really aren't surprising considering how the game has changed and grown these past 4 months.
 
All we can hope is that the "restructuring" cut out the chafe at the top and allowed the talented a voice, but from some of the more recent reviews, that really doesn't seem to be the case.
 
I feel bad about this, as I do think wildstar could be an epic game, but its clearly being very badly managed.	
----
			
Still happily supporting Wildstar until the day they shut down the game, or I no longer find it fun - whichever comes first.
 
Negative attitudes are the bane of this community, folks need to learn how to criticize constructively.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Still happily supporting Wildstar until the day they shut down the game, or I no longer find it fun - whichever comes first.
 
Negative attitudes are the bane of this community, folks need to learn how to criticize constructively.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Developers need to actually listen when constructive criticism is given.  When problems and gaping holes in functionality go ignored for months at a time, you can't blame the community attitude for the state of things.  That's like blaming someone sneezing being responsible for the cold, rather than a symptom.
 
The mantra of "the devs are listening" doesn't go very far when something is widely viewed as a craptastic idea only to have the devs sugarcoat the stance of "you are going to take what we give you and you will like it".
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
This must be very disheartening for the devs to read posts like the one you just posted.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You're exagerating, they have listened to players feedback a lot and have made lots of changes, even during beta before the game launched.
Of course they're not changing everything that players ask for. Sometimes because it's not warranted, sometimes because it takes more time to do, sometimes because it goes against some of their core philosophies.
Well yes there are things on my list of things too I would like changed and that I know they won't (protostar pervs being one of them).
 
But seriously a lot of our ideas and feedback went through.
 
This must be very disheartening for the devs to read posts like the one you just posted.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You're exagerating, they have listened to players feedback a lot and have made lots of changes, even during beta before the game launched.
Of course they're not changing everything that players ask for. Sometimes because it's not warranted, sometimes because it takes more time to do, sometimes because it goes against some of their core philosophies.
Well yes there are things on my list of things too I would like changed and that I know they won't (protostar pervs being one of them).
 
But seriously a lot of our ideas and feedback went through.
 
This must be very disheartening for the devs to read posts like the one you just posted.
 
----
			
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
[...]
 
I get pretty disheartened myself at the cargo cult thinking running rampant on this forum, which is that somehow the "negativity" caused the game's problems, instead of the other way around.
 
[...]
 
----
			
Really, this is getting kind of offensive. This thread is about 60 people getting laid off. That's 60 families that are going to be dealing with questions of how to keep a roof over their heads and how they're going to be paying for their food. 
 
Do you seriously think that the staff hasn't figured out that there's things they got disastrously wrong? They just had to watch 60 of their friends and colleagues pack up their things for good.
 
Do you seriously think that every one of those people laid off had direct control over the most criticized elements of the game's direction? And even if your opinions diverge on that point, is this really the place to argue about it?
 
I'd like to suggest--and I know I'm not the first to do so--that there's lots of other threads where we can go back and forth about the history of how the game got to its current state and what the options are that we prefer to see going forward. If there's some post that you simply cannot let slide in this thread, perhaps instead of getting out your boxing gloves and tossing a return punch, you could suggest taking it to another more appropriate thread and wait to argue over the merits of it until it goes there.	
----
			
Hey Folks - 
 
No need to start calling people out, or slinging insults. Let's get this thread back on-topic so we don't have to close it up. 
 
Thanks a ton!
 
Team WildStar	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think it's sad.
 
But a round of applause for those laid off that produced such an epic game.  Hopefully they'll be hired back when people get their head outta the sand and realize it's an epic game as it is.  
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Really, this is getting kind of offensive. This thread is about 60 people getting laid off. That's 60 families that are going to be dealing with questions of how to keep a roof over their heads and how they're going to be paying for their food. 
 
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
See you say that, because that's your opinion.
When I read your post, I see a poor attempt to apologize for Carbine Studios. 
 
From my perspective, which is mostly from a PvP side of things:  not only has Carbine completely dropped the ball when it comes to listening to player feedback, they've undeniably made the situation worse.  Things like cutting healing in half, or normalizing gear then randomizing runeslots.  It's like they just do whatever they want without consulting anyone who actually plays the game.
 
I'd also like to pve a little in this game.  Unfortunately, because my focus is PvP, I don't really get to cap elder gems without going out and spending hours per week capping the points.  Then, I have to do a long and elaborate attunement, find 4 other players to do dungeons with, and then schedule myself around this videogame / hobby just to participate in what everyone considers the only well done content in this game (raids.)
 
... and even if they do have a huge list of things that players want, they've been around for 5 months not implementing them.  
 
So if you tell me something like, "oh yeah, Carbine is listening."  I'll just tell you sure, they might be listening, but they're sitting at their desks playing with nerf guns / tweeting / pretending they're some kind of bigshot video game developers in California.  They're playing / pretending like their big shots aren't jumping ship (despite the reason, they're still gone,) their game is STILL losing players.  People complain about broken CORE functionality, like rune slots and attunement, and elder gems and amp and ability points.
 
All this time you have people like the die-hard fans that sit here and say things like, "I'll stay here no matter how bad this game gets, or don't worry, they're listening," while the game tanks faster than a fat kid in a pool of chocolate.  Guess what, you could sell those same fans shit and they'll comment about how they love the smell.  
 
Carbine needs to be listening to the countless review website, players, ratings, and $$$$$$, and start reacting to what the playerbase wants.  If the damn playerbase thinks one of your major selling points (attunement) sucks giant you know what, fix it in a timely manner.  It's like having a big coffee stain on the front of your white shirt and wearing it until you can get to the dry cleaners.  TAKE THE SHIRT OFF YOU LOOK LIKE A FOOL.
----
			
Actually I take that back... after I googled "Avatus Disruption beam" I found actually no one complaining about it.
 
So apparently they fix things no one cares about and leave things that negatively effect the playerbase's gameplay for MONTHS	
----
			
My personal take on all this is that the Devs were indeed listening, but Management was not.  And of course, it's not Management that pays the price for their screw-ups.  That price is paid by the 60 unfortunate staff who had been trying their best despite their poor Management,
 
Some reward for hard work there, eh? :angry:	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
Yeah, now that I've read the rest of your post, I can definitely agree you see "things"...
 
Especially that bit :
 
You have hmmm... Let's stay polite hahem... Quite some imagination...
 
Seriously you need some sleep : noone is trying to conspire against you, noone is out there to get you.
Nah really... The Saurians from I don't know which star with their fleet hidden behind planet X aren't inhabiting the bodies of our leaders, waiting to harvest us and our babies, and so on and so forth.
 
Yeah, no : Just get some sleep, really
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Ultimately, I'm sorry this game didn't explode in popularity, make everyone at Carbine a ton of money, and provide hours and hours of enjoyment for a large number of people.  Someone had to be responsible for the failure, and it sure as hell wasn't the player's fault the game failed.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
I'm part of what cult ???  :mellow:
 
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
"Sh!t talking caused people to leave Wildstar!"
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
certainly the majority of people are easily influencable.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Still happily supporting Wildstar until the day they shut down the game, or I no longer find it fun - whichever comes first.
 
Negative attitudes are the bane of this community, folks need to learn how to criticize constructively.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Actually I take that back... after I googled "Avatus Disruption beam" I found actually no one complaining about it.
 
So apparently they fix things no one cares about and leave things that negatively effect the playerbase's gameplay for MONTHS
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Ah, that's what's wrong with your thought process.
You've got this antiquated belief that every bad things must have a culprit in the form of a person or incident.
 
This need of pinning the fault on something. You must like police TV shows, no?
----
			
Carbine produced a broken product with massive flaws. Flaws that had been pointed out in beta, (I was in beta and sent in bug reports, those self same bugs were still there upon release. I'm not talking about minor graphical issues here either. I mean quest breaking bugs and fundamental mechanics being flawed)
 
You cant blame the player base for not wanting to stick around for that and of course with economic failure, comes economic response and thus the reduction in staff.
 
I'm not in favour of 60 people losing their jobs, but you can't divorce carbines failure to produce a successful product from those job losses and to put the blame on the players is sycophantry of the worst type.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm not in favour of 60 people losing their jobs, but you can't divorce carbines failure to produce a successful product from those job losses and to put the blame on the players is sycophantry of the worst type.
----