137333-ingame-costs-are-ridiculous

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			well they gotta make you stay for along time so ofc they will jack the price up on the most used parts of the game to make you grind/farm gold to get the best runes/items for your toon	
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			I agree with the rune modification... I spent 5plat trying to get an earth slot. I heard someone else spent 10plat trying to get a certain slot. I'm getting the impression they really want you to buy those service tokens.	
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Three points.
 
1) Crafting dailies/resources
 
2) Dyeing gear (holowardrobe)
 
3) Rune modification
 
All three of these current aspects of the game are ridiculously overprice for level 50 characters. Game-quality-breaking in its extremity now.
 
The fact that dyeing gear and rune modification use /service tokens/ to COMPLETELY BYPASS the /broken/ pricing system is PAINFULLY CONSPICUOUS. But the crafting dailies are JUST ridiculously, show-stoppingly expensive.
 
It is clear that service-tokens are the main cash-grab Carbine or NCsoft settled on with the F2P model, and that's fair enough, I recognize this is a business model. However, these are /cheap/ tricks, and they are BLATANT.
 
Dying is one of the main casual, aesthetic functions the game offers, and it's wonderful on its own. I'm fine with a certain cost being associated with dying my costumes. It was a bit steep with some dyes before, but doable for a level 50 grinding dailies/contracts without too much trouble.
 
Now?
1plat for a dye channel. 3 plat for a full costume. -- SIXTY INGAME GOLD FOR PLATINUM GRAY IN ONE CHANNEL.
 
Due to RNG, one character blew 3 plat on TWO rune slots trying to get them to the correct elemental alignment for proper play balance.
 
When service tokens /specifically/ bypass this, it is a TRANSPARENT cash-grab. You're not offering a service to help me enjoy the game, you're /locking/ the game behind debilitating costs unless I fork over real money.
 
The crafting system is just /broken/ it's so expensive. I am never touching the ingame crafting again until I see some kind of change to the costs involved in crafting.
 
That's my feedback. These issues took me from being a bit disinterested in a few changes to being /actively/ angered and obstructed by game mechanics.
			
				
	Edited October 5, 2015 by OnikoGhost	
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I understand needing gold-sinks in the game, but these are gold-pits.
 
Before spenging 20g to dye armor was "eh whatever" and I would do it 3 times till I got what I like.
 
Now 1-2plat to dye a set and I just.. don't even want to experiment with things, getting new dyes just feels - eh at this point becuse "well this looks cool but It'll be 2plat +more if I decide to change anything"
 
There are a ton of little gold sinks all around in the game - why they need to make them so HUGE now is really weird. 	
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I've been away for quite a while, but came back as F2Per. I zeroed in on this change right away and as the OP did, became immediately concerned. I could be misremembering, but it also seems like repair costs went up as well? When Lag strikes and I wake up dead from it, repair costs seem a bit unfair, but now they also feel steeper..? 
It really leads me to wonder if there is also a new source of gold in the game that I'm not aware of, and I'm just doing things wrong because I'm not up to date with where all the cool kids do their farming nowadays?
 
Dye costs being high will just lead me to never experiment, but I liked crafting. If that's too expensive to do now, then... well, I guess I can stop caring about harvesting now too except for vendoring huge piles of wood and metal again like the good old days?
			
				
	Edited October 5, 2015 by Aldones	
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A lot of these were nerfs to previous mechanics. For instance it was only relatively recently you were allowed to re-roll rune slots at all. Prior you had to hope for perfect drops or use what slots you got. 
 
The dye prices can get high (they scale with the quality of the dye) but I would never consider aesthetic costs game breaking by any stretch, as they don't affect game mechanics at all. 
 
As for crafting, you do know you can collect your own resources? You can slot the two gathering professions you need for your craft and collect all the way to 50, then swap one out for the craft(s) you want to level. You don't have to pay anything if you genuinely don't want to buy your materials, you can collect just about all of them (barring a few that are made by other crafters)
 
I agree that some costs are high, but none of these break the game or make it unplayable....
 
As for repairs, I haven't noticed if they upped the repair costs, or if people only think they did because their gear got upgraded in iLvL with the transition.
 
 
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Dye costs being high will just lead me to never experiment, but I liked crafting. If that's too expensive to do now, then... well, I guess I can stop caring about harvesting now too except for vendoring huge piles of wood and metal again like the good old days?
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			I really wish that the actual dyes were expensive but the dying itself was free/cheap. Because I don't mind spending a lot of money on one particular dye if I can then use it as much as I like when I have it. Even before F2P I went out of my way to get all the cheap dyes only so I could dye my gear as much as I wanted because I really like to change it quite often. I didn't even bother with the expensive dyes, I just sold them on the AH.	
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			Oh, I do. I made a neat new outfit just yesterday that I spent so much time on that the first time around the game disconnected me for inactivity. When I rebuilt it I noticed that it cost a ton, but that I also had about 80 service tokens so I decided to test them out and blew 10 of them. I'm a costume hoarder, and with this newfangled holo-costume thingy I've just emptied about 90% of my bankspace on junk I thought looked cool. But I'm still stuck with limited costume tabs so realistically I'm not expecting to change too many more of them now that I'm happy with them. All in all, the costume dye for service tokens is the least troublesome part of this addition, but if I'm honest it means that as a f2per I'm going to probably mess with it even less than before.	
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			I honestly think that dyeing and repair costs are too great. Dyeing because 2 plat a full outfit dye change is just too much. I like playing with dyes and cosmetic stuff. This price point allows me no messing around with it. If you want fluff such as dyes to be a gold sink, consider increasing the price to buy the dye and decreasing the amount of money you spend to dye your gear. If the gold sink was 20-50 gold a dye, I would probably be sinking far more money into it than I am now and the sink would be working better :D repair costs could do with being halved. I know that it's already less than it was, but breaking average item level of 70 gear will cost you 40G for repairs. While for me that's nothing, for a new player that might be daunting as it's tough to learn when you only have a couple of plat and repairing takes 25% of your money. I don't mind the cost of runes and especially the massive massive gold sink of rerolling runes, mostly because the reason why you're getting runes is because you want to be at your top game. IF you're trying to be at your top game, it means that you're already in a position to be earning and spending a lot. Though the price of rerolling could probably scale better with the iLvl of the gear. I mean if I want to be at my top game in iLvl 50 gear, I'm probably going to be replacing that one in 1 or 2 runs, meaning that the gold sink of rerolling seems like really a lot. If I'm runing up my iLvl 100 gear, chances are I'll stick with it for weeks or months, meaning that spending lots of money on it is not a bad long term investment.	
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The crafting costs are out of control.
 
In the old system, the base crafting component that could only be bought from the vendor was around 1.25 gold. It is now 6.25 gold, and you often need 2 or 3 of these.
 
Specifically for Tailoring: I used to be able to give a 'welcome to 50' set of blues to our guild members. This was after investing 75 plat into learning all of the patterns, amassing points from the crafting dailies, etc. Once you did that, the costs for a basic blue set were fairly cheap; maybe a plat worth of materials most of which were scavenged.
 
Now, a 'welcome to 50' set of blues runs in the 5 to 6 plat range, minimum. This is to produce approximately the same power level items as before, nothing special, and assuming the same amount of scavenged materials. You're already 20 gold deep for just the base components you must buy from the vendor and the cost for ATTEMPTING to make the item.
 
In short: Crafting costs are around 5 times what they were, in my experience. I can't afford that, it isn't worth the end product.	
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			Agreed. Dye costs in particular are way too high now, especially for characters who aren't max level yet because they have no way to effectively grind cash.	
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I find the costs a bit much as well.
 
As for the dyes, it goes by level now. So, if you have alts, dye a lot and dye often while they are low level.
 
The crafting is a mess from start to finish. The high costs just add insult to injury.	
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I think you are crazy to begin crafting in F2P - It is literally a total waste of time.
 
Costs have gone up about 500% If i wasnt sitting on a pile of plat i would probably not even be able to break even.
 
Thank god for lucky random drops you can sell "for some reason" to idiots that will pay a lot of plat for trash lvl 50 gear! 	
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Rerolling rune slots is the one thing I'm happy to just fork over service tokens, but I'd like to see the price reduced for both Plat and Token cost, considering we have to do up to 5 of these per item.  It makes getting new loot a sad experience.
 
Also removing runes costs waaaay to many service tokens.  It's only a rune after all, I'm not extracting the wall of china here. 	
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Going free to play means they have to come up with ways to create revenue. They will tweak and change until they get a recipe that both the player and the company can live with.  Feedback will help them down this path, so posts like this are important.
 
Time or money , that is the formula now.	
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Going free to play means they have to come up with ways to create revenue. They will tweak and change until they get a recipe that both the player and the company can live with.  Feedback will help them down this path, so posts like this are important.
 
Time or money , that is the formula now.
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			The only way to look at costs properly is to compare them to gold gains. Before transition you could easily farm CREDD by just casually soloing shiphands. I think that was a bit too much. I don't believe they have changed the amount of gold you can get from most activities (correct me if I'm wrong). You can still get at least 20-30 gold from a single shiphand. So it's not that bad.    	
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			The hollow wardrobe is the worst concept in the game atm. Pay to dye, pay to equip, pay to unlock. The method they're currently creating with their ingame prices/economy still the same as P2P is the usage of gold sellers. People are more inclined to pay like 10 bucks for some currency instead of willing to pay triple the amount to finally gain the same amount. I know you can't change a ingame economy in a day, but you can slowly revamp everything in a way that the players will have to lower the prices. Lower the gold gain so that people have no choice the lower the prices. At first they won't change any of the prices, they might even increase it. The fun thing is, that if no one buys their stuff, they won't make money and people start undercutting to a point where you can consider it acceptable.	
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I actually really like the holo-wardrobe over the previous costume system... Now I don't have to clutter my bank with my favorite costume pieces when I don't have all my costume slots full (which is all the time... I'm a stylish Chua).
 
The costs for dying were there before the holo-and the unlock prices are one time and really not that bad except for top tier gear... which is usually worth it IMO...
 
TLDR: the holo is great (especially if they keep the cap high/ increase it); the dye prices are another matter entirely	
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			Recoloring gear has always been this expensive i made a thread about this al most a year ago.	
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			Uhm, just a question.. Is it better to use the money I'd use on signature service on cash shop items to help with runes and the like instead? Or do signature service help with that in some way? Because I am usually really bad at farming gold and end up doing other stuff so I'm a bit concerned over that. 	
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Uhm, just a question.. Is it better to use the money I'd use on signature service on cash shop items to help with runes and the like instead? Or do signature service help with that in some way? Because I am usually really bad at farming gold and end up doing other stuff so I'm a bit concerned over that. 
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A lot of these were nerfs to previous mechanics. For instance it was only relatively recently you were allowed to re-roll rune slots at all. Prior you had to hope for perfect drops or use what slots you got.
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I don't mind the cost of runes and especially the massive massive gold sink of rerolling runes, mostly because the reason why you're getting runes is because you want to be at your top game. IF you're trying to be at your top game, it means that you're already in a position to be earning and spending a lot. Though the price of rerolling could probably scale better with the iLvl of the gear. I mean if I want to be at my top game in iLvl 50 gear, I'm probably going to be replacing that one in 1 or 2 runs, meaning that the gold sink of rerolling seems like really a lot. If I'm runing up my iLvl 100 gear, chances are I'll stick with it for weeks or months, meaning that spending lots of money on it is not a bad long term investment.
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The costs of maintaining iLvel 96+ gear is much greater than the ability that gear gives to farm. Already I can detect people's irritability at being awarded gear because they know what's about to come. Since most of our raid is fully GA gear now, we had a few players get multiple pieces from GA last night. One of the players, who got two token pieces, said she only had a few gold and had no way to rune this stuff.
 
When getting gear feels like a burden/punishment, the costs are too high.
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Idk is that really true? Or is that just leet-guild preference. I'd imagine a good player with decent gear that wasn't perfectly rune optimized would still do just fine in raids / vet content. I of course could be mistaken... 
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This is a population and supply issue. By more players at level 50 playing more runes will come and prices will drop. The problem with reducing costs now or increasing drop rates means in the long run gold inflation will be a bigger problem, which is why these kneejerk fixes aren't generally good long term.
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As for crafting/dyes i can't really tell, usually dont change that often.
Just know that rare dyes used to be expensive to apply and that they made it alot cheaper.
 
As for runes? Well it's all rng and its fine tbh.
 
Inititally you had to spam each dungeon/adventure/raidboss to pray that you dropped an item that had 3 or 4 slots, and that they were not shitty since you could not change them.
Then they added a fixed amount of slots to each quality gear (nerf)
Then they added the abilitiy to reroll and add runes with items you could farm(add) or craft(change)
 
The change rune things cost around 2plat from when they were introduced, for a random change of element.
 
 
Now you can add slots with gold, and change them randomly for gold. Oh and if you get really unlucky you can spend an item that lets you choose slots.
They also rerolled the entire fusion system so you can put them in any slot.
 
I'm very happy with the changes, got away with around 20p to reroll my entire GA gear (had to reroll practically every slot), which is a steal really for those who seek to have optimised gear.
If you dont want optimised gear, dont reroll, pay less and make less damage/heal whatever in return, you dont have to reroll.
 
 
If you think this is too difficult, I'm more than happy to revert to the inital state where items dropped with random amount of slots and random elements.
			
				
	Edited October 5, 2015 by Woofly	
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I don't necessarily deny that Jeff, but I'm extremely skeptical. Unless they widely altered the raid difficulty from pre-F2P I can't at all imagine that's the case. Nor can I really see imperfect runes holding back a skilled player that much. Maybe in DS it's a steeper gear curve, but unless GA is totally revamped I just can't see it. Granted I haven't fully explored all the new stats they added.... 
 
Idk, I tend to disbelieve extreme claims like that, though I suppose it could be true. 	
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Repair cost is so ridiculous specially 50lv !!!
It's not acceptable, more than half of my gold spend just for repair !!!
I wondering how those new player gonna learn veteran instance without dying alot	
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Yeah, I don't bother dying my gear. The prices are ridiculous and i'm not that bothered about changing anything.
 
No matter how I look at it, I just can't justify spending 2 platinum on dying costumes.
 
Crafting i've completely abandoned. The AH prices have shot up, it's just not worth the cost now.
 
Repair costs have always been stupidly high. 
			
				
	Edited October 5, 2015 by Gomly	
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Runes are a bigger source of power than they were before. They make a huge difference.
 
Here is our tuesday parse, when the only DPS in the raid with runes (as far as I know) were Crisseyda (who was fully runed, but not optimally runed) and myself.
 
http://www.wildstarlogs.com/reports/NXYF4kaLMR36tH2K#type=damage-done
 
Ok, so I understand there's a difference between "no runes" and "optimally runed". But if you do not re-roll colors, you will be hard pressed to get set bonuses and you'll end up taking a lot of runes that give no dps increase (like increased health). Even on my alt where I have not been able to rune with fully exceptional runes, I still spent a ton of plat just making sure the colors were something that I could make "workable".
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The cost of re-rolling slots is fixed. There is no supply/demand to drop the prices of that, nor of removing runes.
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I don't necessarily deny that Jeff, but I'm extremely skeptical. Unless they widely altered the raid difficulty from pre-F2P I can't at all imagine that's the case. Nor can I really see imperfect runes holding back a skilled player that much. Maybe in DS it's a steeper gear curve, but unless GA is totally revamped I just can't see it. Granted I haven't fully explored all the new stats they added.... 
 
Idk, I tend to disbelieve extreme claims like that, though I suppose it could be true. 
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Ok, so you were thinking no runes versus optimal runes. Yea that makes sense. TBH it's much easier to get set bonuses now even with out optimal runes, but I definitely get the necessity of being runed vs un-runed. 
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Also I cleared GA when gear was craptacular, 1 to 2 rune slots on purples (not even orange back then). I'm even sure that now just with the base gear and without a single rune you have more damage and healing. The mitigation is less but that is due to changes in the passive mitigation values which were too high according to them. So i'm with Nazryn on this i don't believe you need full runed gear to clear GA. 
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I have noticed repair costs have gone up a bit, but that may have scaled with higher ilvl items which replaced lower ones.  I don't notice the gold drop increase (from sub) but see quests give a bit more.  Don't know anything about runes, Commodity prices have been nerfed so no one pays a decent price for them.  We need threads like this so they can see and change things for the better!
			
				
	Edited October 5, 2015 by Warpcoil	
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			If your spending that much plat trying to get a specific element on a rune slot then sorry you have too much plat to spend.  Personally I think people are obsessing too much over having 'perfect' gear filled with 'perfect' runes.  I realize some people want to "be the best" but if thats the case then it should be expensive otherwise everyone would have that perfect set.  Honestly, I don't think the game mechanics require perfect gear anymore especially since armor has MANY more slots then they had in the past and most of the dungeons are MUCH easier to do now. 	
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We went into GA on Tuesday with no one having runes. We didn't get very far (lot's of lag, very frustrating experience), but with most players being fully GA geared, our TTKs were about what they were when we were 2/6. In fact, our X-89 kill was 7 minutes, which was about what I think our first progression kill was.
 
Last night we went back in with everyone being runed and we just melted the place. Our DPS definitely feels higher than it was pre-F2P. So while I can agree that "optimal" is not "required", having runes is going to be important, and a lot of re-rolling is required just to make a set "workable".
 
And besides THAT, you are punished severely for putting in non-optimal runes because it costs a lot of plat to destroy them later if you want to upgrade.
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But now we are entering a discussion of if runes make it easier and no longer a discussion of making it required.
I am aware that rune bonuses are strong now, but that's what people asked for to get better runes, prune the crappy ones and so on.  Perhaps another currency instead of a gold one would have been better but those are systems we also had before which people didn't really like. 
You said yourself you aren't an elite guild, give your members time to farm gold and get everything geared seems to me there's more peer pressure going on that pushes casual players to quickly get everything in order while everything is in state of flux or at least that's the impression i'm getting. 
 
Again this is a one time event, nowhere in the future unless another major overhaul is planned what i doubt they will do any time soon will you be forced to reroll multiple pieces to a full set in one go. If some time from now passes and people still find that the gold sink outweighs the gold earned they should take a look at it. 
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If your spending that much plat trying to get a specific element on a rune slot then sorry you have too much plat to spend.  Personally I think people are obsessing too much over having 'perfect' gear filled with 'perfect' runes.  I realize some people want to "be the best" but if thats the case then it should be expensive otherwise everyone would have that perfect set.  Honestly, I don't think the game mechanics require perfect gear anymore especially since armor has MANY more slots then they had in the past and most of the dungeons are MUCH easier to do now. 
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Coming back to Wildstar from FF14 and I gotta say - the currency system here feels so restrictive based on earnings vs cost. I find myself routinely, over the past several days, having to decide - do I want to make this rune or change a color on my costume or buy a new décor or hey maybe this....or.... - point being, Im feeling like I can do one thing at a time instead of many things - all due to coin constraints. Its not that I don't have some plat kicking around - its that if I went and did a few things, MINOR things, all at once, Id be flat broke. So I usually end up doing none of them an instead just hold on to my plat.
 
A game shouldn't make you feel stingy with your earned coin.
 
Currently it feels like theres too much outgoing coin and not enough incoming. And I run instances, dailies, sell on the AH, all that jazz - still just not enough.	
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Yup that's another sort of odd mindset players go into. Going for optimal when it isn't needed i personally wouldn't recommend this on a guild level until i hit DS and noticed issues there, doing that on every step of the way does seem like overkill and that's something the person even admits to it being with saying they 'melted the place'. 
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If your spending that much plat trying to get a specific element on a rune slot then sorry you have too much plat to spend.  Personally I think people are obsessing too much over having 'perfect' gear filled with 'perfect' runes.  I realize some people want to "be the best" but if thats the case then it should be expensive otherwise everyone would have that perfect set.  Honestly, I don't think the game mechanics require perfect gear anymore especially since armor has MANY more slots then they had in the past and most of the dungeons are MUCH easier to do now. 
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			Reading back through the thread, there may be some disconnect. Do you need optimal runes to progress through GA? I can't really say, but that's not why we're runing out our gear. We're trying to progress through System Daemons, and that is not a joke of a boss. You need to bring every advantage you can to that fight.	
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Ok I hear about all the rune issues and now these, I need to know straight up if I sign up for sig status will it still be just as bad or is this only an issue with free to play?This is not very clear to me.
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			Ok I hear about all the rune issues and now these, I need to know straight up if I sign up for sig status will it still be just as bad or is this only an issue with free to play?This is not very clear to me.	
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Ok I hear about all the rune issues and now these, I need to know straight up if I sign up for sig status will it still be just as bad or is this only an issue with free to play?This is not very clear to me.
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It's not so much bad as just typical Endgame optimization pains I'd say.
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It's the same no matter whether your are a free player or sig status, though with sig status you can grind plat faster.
 
The costs associated with runing are:
The materials: these will (hopefully) drop as supply goes up and demands goes down. They are VERY expensive right now, but hopefully will be less so in the future
Add slot: except for token gear, you have to add a slot to your gear (if you want all the slots available). This costs plat.
Re-Roll Colors: If you want to make sets, you have to get the right combination of runes in your gear. If you are not worried about sets, you'll still have to re-roll some slots, but not as much. Each time you roll it costs a lot of gold, and it will pick another color at random. Service tokens will allow you to pick the color you want. So you can avoid this cost by grinding omnibits/buying NCoins
Destroy Runes: If you want to replace a rune, you either have to destroy the existing rune (very expensive) or extract it using service tokens. If you extract it, it is not bound to you and is still tradable.
 
So, with service tokens, all of this becomes much more managable. That means either paying money (above signature sub price), or grinding a lot of omnibits. Signature service does not grand a stipend of service tokens or omnibits.
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Coming back to Wildstar from FF14 and I gotta say - the currency system here feels so restrictive based on earnings vs cost. I find myself routinely, over the past several days, having to decide - do I want to make this rune or change a color on my costume or buy a new décor or hey maybe this....or.... - point being, Im feeling like I can do one thing at a time instead of many things - all due to coin constraints. Its not that I don't have some plat kicking around - its that if I went and did a few things, MINOR things, all at once, Id be flat broke. So I usually end up doing none of them an instead just hold on to my plat.
 
A game shouldn't make you feel stingy with your earned coin.
 
Currently it feels like theres too much outgoing coin and not enough incoming. And I run instances, dailies, sell on the AH, all that jazz - still just not enough.
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Although all this sounds kinda terrible to me, it's something I was "kinda" expecting.
With F2P there are always some sort of monetization exploitation of the systems in place. For a former sub since head-start, it's painful to see how the incentive to use extra RL cash (beside the already signature one) is being pushed into the game.
Basically, the game became a bit more expensive if one wants to keep the QoL we had before f2p.
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I don't agree that it is "typical".
 
And I can say this- punching the random color re-roll and watching my plat go down 40G a "pull" is one of the worst feeling experiences I've ever had in a video game. Regardless of how expensive it is, an RNG slot-machine is just a really rotten mechanic. It'd rather just pay two plat and be done with it.
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			Well, if GA is "easymode for facerollers", then I guess that's me. Progressing through it, learning everything from scratch with content appropriate gear, was certainly no joke for us (despite how quickly you can accomplish this in an alt pug these days).
			
				
	Edited October 5, 2015 by SlyJeff	
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It's the same no matter whether your are a free player or sig status, though with sig status you can grind plat faster.
 
The costs associated with runing are:
The materials: these will (hopefully) drop as supply goes up and demands goes down. They are VERY expensive right now, but hopefully will be less so in the future
Add slot: except for token gear, you have to add a slot to your gear (if you want all the slots available). This costs plat.
Re-Roll Colors: If you want to make sets, you have to get the right combination of runes in your gear. If you are not worried about sets, you'll still have to re-roll some slots, but not as much. Each time you roll it costs a lot of gold, and it will pick another color at random. Service tokens will allow you to pick the color you want. So you can avoid this cost by grinding omnibits/buying NCoins
Destroy Runes: If you want to replace a rune, you either have to destroy the existing rune (very expensive) or extract it using service tokens. If you extract it, it is not bound to you and is still tradable.
 
So, with service tokens, all of this becomes much more managable. That means either paying money (above signature sub price), or grinding a lot of omnibits. Signature service does not grand a stipend of service tokens or omnibits.
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Well, my TL;DR is : yeah I think it's a bit too expensive.
 
My favoritest healer has always been scraping along, playing on CREDD so she never amassed a giant kitty of reserve funds.  Runing her gear and listening to it over mumble was heartbreaking.  I myself, even WITH a ton of rune tokens in the exceptional and normal variety still spent about 30 plat to get my tank set optimized, and my DPS set to some functional level.
 
However I got to say, we DID go into GA largely unruned and tore the place up.  Yeah there were a few weak spots but largely DPS was at where we were before, and aside from Destruction Protocol smooshing an unruned tank into paste, we were fine.  
 
So I don't really know where the line ought to be.  I'm sure this wouldn't have been the case had we been just starting fresh in GA.
 
And I realize that WS needs to make some scratch.  I think myself, I'd prefer to see the money made from costumes, mounts, etc.  Fundamental convenience for getting gear (i.e. service tokens) working is not a great place to tap the pocketbooks of your populace.  You'll get more goodwill when people buy things they WANT instead of feeling like they're having to buy things they NEED.  
 
But we are very early in the transition and maybe some of this will smooth out.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm atrocious at making money in games, yet even an incompetent farmer like me could make 50p in a few days off dailies, shiphands and contracts alone.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm atrocious at making money in games, yet even an incompetent farmer like me could make 50p in a few days off dailies, shiphands and contracts alone. If I could do it, i'm pretty sure any moderately active casual player could. Sure the economy will be a toss up for a bit, but it will settle out eventually... plus an unstable economy gives clever folks a massive money making edge when playing the market. 
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Honestly, the problem I'm seeing here isn't that stuff is 'too expensive,' it's that people want it now instead of later. This is an MMO, it's designed to be played over the course of years, not hours or days. There are people in this thread talking about prohibitive costs associated with optimising for endgame content and from the sounds of it they are trying to get optimised overnight when an endgame raid is designed to take weeks to pimp out your gear for maximum carnage. That also brings up a mainstay of the F2P system. If you have patience you can grind out everything in time. If you have money you can buy your way past that grind time. These costs are nothing more than a way to draw out how long it's going to take you to do things if you don't want to spend actual money.
 
Personally, I don't see any issues with the costs. It simply gives us all a steady stream of goals to aim for that let us all have a reason to keep playing the game. The people that want everything right now and pay a fortune to get it don't really care about playing the game, they care about beating the game. Which can't be done in MMOs since they don't have endings, they just stop when the money stops coming in.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Honestly, the problem I'm seeing here isn't that stuff is 'too expensive,' it's that people want it now instead of later. This is an MMO, it's designed to be played over the course of years, not hours or days. There are people in this thread talking about prohibitive costs associated with optimising for endgame content and from the sounds of it they are trying to get optimised overnight when an endgame raid is designed to take weeks to pimp out your gear for maximum carnage. That also brings up a mainstay of the F2P system. If you have patience you can grind out everything in time. If you have money you can buy your way past that grind time. These costs are nothing more than a way to draw out how long it's going to take you to do things if you don't want to spend actual money.
 
Personally, I don't see any issues with the costs. It simply gives us all a steady stream of goals to aim for that let us all have a reason to keep playing the game. The people that want everything right now and pay a fortune to get it don't really care about playing the game, they care about beating the game. Which can't be done in MMOs since they don't have endings, they just stop when the money stops coming in.
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If a piece of gear drops, I expect to be able to reasonably get it into raid ready shape by the next raid with some effort. I do not expect the game to encourage me to spend more money when I'm already paying a sub.
 
They have the Gauntlets and a few other grindy items in the game, but making every item require a prohibitive amount of effort to get ready is too long, imo. Especially when it didn't used to be that way.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Honestly, the problem I'm seeing here isn't that stuff is 'too expensive,' it's that people want it now instead of later. This is an MMO, it's designed to be played over the course of years, not hours or days. There are people in this thread talking about prohibitive costs associated with optimising for endgame content and from the sounds of it they are trying to get optimised overnight when an endgame raid is designed to take weeks to pimp out your gear for maximum carnage. That also brings up a mainstay of the F2P system. If you have patience you can grind out everything in time. If you have money you can buy your way past that grind time. These costs are nothing more than a way to draw out how long it's going to take you to do things if you don't want to spend actual money.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Honestly, the problem I'm seeing here isn't that stuff is 'too expensive,' it's that people want it now instead of later. This is an MMO, it's designed to be played over the course of years, not hours or days. There are people in this thread talking about prohibitive costs associated with optimising for endgame content and from the sounds of it they are trying to get optimised overnight when an endgame raid is designed to take weeks to pimp out your gear for maximum carnage. That also brings up a mainstay of the F2P system. If you have patience you can grind out everything in time. If you have money you can buy your way past that grind time. These costs are nothing more than a way to draw out how long it's going to take you to do things if you don't want to spend actual money.
 
Personally, I don't see any issues with the costs. It simply gives us all a steady stream of goals to aim for that let us all have a reason to keep playing the game. The people that want everything right now and pay a fortune to get it don't really care about playing the game, they care about beating the game. Which can't be done in MMOs since they don't have endings, they just stop when the money stops coming in.
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Wish I could figure out how to like posts on mobile. Sorry, op.
 
You hit the nail on the head, however. The dye prices and runing costs are especially ugly changes. Carbine gets no love from me on those. They go so far beyond the concept of gold sink.	
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			Sorry to post a bump post, but I think this is actually a pretty relevant and important thread and I'd like more visibility.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Wish I could figure out how to like posts on mobile. Sorry, op.
 
You hit the nail on the head, however. The dye prices and runing costs are especially ugly changes. Carbine gets no love from me on those. They go so far beyond the concept of gold sink.
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{| class="blockquote"
You're right Jeff, it's incredibly simple and easymode for face rollers. in FFXI you couldn't dream of Endgame optimization unless you were literally one of a hand full of players in the most elite guilds. The vast majority of the player base could never hope to optimise their characters because of the sheer resources you needed from Dynamis to craft your relic weapons and armour. The same can be said about many more MMO's then not. 
 
Perhaps I'm just old fashioned, but rerolling a few runes and spending a few plat to optimise gear is nothing compared to collecting 30,000 rare raid drops just to start stage one of 5 on a single relic piece. 
 
I'm atrocious at making money in games, yet even an incompetent farmer like me could make 50p in a few days off dailies, shiphands and contracts alone. If I could do it, i'm pretty sure any moderately active casual player could. Sure the economy will be a toss up for a bit, but it will settle out eventually... plus an unstable economy gives clever folks a massive money making edge when playing the market. 
 
I can understand some people frustration, to a point. But has patience and extended gameplay really fallen so far out of the genre that a couple days or even a week or two of dailies / farming is obscene to optimize BiC end game gear?
 
I guess I'll go stand in the old fogies corner....
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{| class="blockquote"
They need to find a median. The best people to advise them on this are the people who care about the game , and have played it from day 1 (even with a vacation in there somewhere) So along with not liking the dye changes , perhaps start using your game experience to offer alternative suggestions on how they can monetize cosmetics , without driving away those who love them.
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			They need to find a median. The best people to advise them on this are the people who care about the game , and have played it from day 1 (even with a vacation in there somewhere) So along with not liking the dye changes , perhaps start using your game experience to offer alternative suggestions on how they can monetize cosmetics , without driving away those who love them.	
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{| class="blockquote"
But at the end of the day, you're just comparing ATROCIOUSLY BAD game design to BAD game design.
 
Neither is actually a good or enjoyable player experience.
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Agreed.  I think the key to microtransactions is making sure they all feel good, so you get something cool for your money even if it's just something small.  Spending a small fortune to do basic things doesn't feel good.
 
e: in addition to what's in the store now, new character customization options (hair/faces etc.), emotes, titles and lots more choice of everything.  There's hardly anything there right now.
			
				
	Edited October 5, 2015 by Lori	
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{| class="blockquote"
the costs of dyeing your gear has nothing to do with cosmetics, but just with a gold sink. Meaning that perhaps a better gold sink would be to drop the price of dyeing gear lower and up the price of dyes themselves.
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{| class="blockquote"
No, actually... I think they did it to deliberately try and get people to purchase Service Tokens and thought very little on its merits as a gold sink. Granted, Carbine has shown in the past with dye prices that they don't necessarily understand how gold sinks work best, but... yeah. I'm pretty sure the absurd prices on dyes and runing are expressly to drive people toward the cash shop to get around them.
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{| class="blockquote"
If a piece of gear drops, I expect to be able to reasonably get it into raid ready shape by the next raid with some effort. I do not expect the game to encourage me to spend more money when I'm already paying a sub.
 
They have the Gauntlets and a few other grindy items in the game, but making every item require a prohibitive amount of effort to get ready is too long, imo. Especially when it didn't used to be that way.
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			so they traded the attunement grind from their first launch for the rune slot grind for their second launch.... smooth, guess they didnt learn their lesson from the first time. gg carbine..  	
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I have to agree that the cost to dye your armor and change it's style is a bit too high.  I had a Crimson dye that I got from my loyalty rewards and I tried to use it on my costume in a way that was aesthetically pleasing and just changing the dye color alone would have cost me 1 plat 60gold and I only had 1 plat 40gold (and of course these are estimations but very close to being what I really had and how much it cost) and so I had to make the choice (on my fresh level 50) whether I wanted to go out and earn the gold and blow it all on the dye or if I wanted to spend the money elsewhere such as armor upgrades.I chose armor upgrades. The wardrobe is way too costly.  We already have a limit on how many wardrobe items we can unlock (which is understandable, though highly annoying at the same time considering a lot of gear have similar models but you can unlock them regardless, sometimes creating duplicates in your style list, which count toward that maximum).  I do not mind paying cash to unlock certain things but paying for signature on top of service coins just so i can save my money to put back into the in game economy with crafted gear and whatnot. My suggestions, so that this post is as constructive as possible:
Drop the price of the dyes at least 50%.  If I'm paying over 1 plat for a full dye job that doesn't include changing the style of armor pieces to something else, we are already paying too much.  Service tokens should be an optional currency to use on top of your gold, not almost necessary for people who get excited to use their new colors they find.	each of your gear should be linked to the base skin that you use for that gear, and let us know in the tooltip too, this way if we unlock it in the holo wardrobe, we will know based on the tooltip.  if you choose not to add it to the tooltip, at least make it to where the holo wardrobe wont even add that piece of loot to the list of unlockable pieces when it's already been unlocked.  Games that do this are Diablo 3 and Rift.  They make a lot of money off of their costumes and have an extensive list of sets and you guys could too!	
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I don't have a 50 yet in game, so people will likely automatically dismiss me but, in reading majority of this thread I seen two things...
 
People who say it's too expensive and people who say 'good they need a way to make revenue! why not hit dyes and crafting where it counts!'..
 
Then I read a thread about dungeons being tuned too high for max level and raiding being too hard as well and how people fight back n forth about it being a lack of endgame content that caused the mass exodus.. or if it was the difficulty.
 
Seems to me that, since this is F2P now (I subscribed, let's get that out of the way..) there will need to be the following... as much as people hate to hear it.
 
1. Nerfs to content or.. new endgame designed for the more pug friendly players (which in F2P tends to be the majority, sorry guys and gals.)
 
and
 
2. Adjustments made to costs of certain vanity services.. Come on guys, dyes being 2 days of grinding to use at max level if you happen to have good gear? COME ON. 
 
SO, in looking at examples 1 and 2, once the leveling process ends.. the only thing left for the less restricted players (many new folks who joined up.. myself included simply because my hours are so sporadic.. I cannot commit to a 3 hour raid 3 times a week EVERY week.) This isn't me saying I 'don't have time', it's just that my time is all over the place. So I wonder, what is there to do once I max out?
 
1. Collect mounts and pets/Housing stuff (I love doing this)
2. Collect dyes until my collection is complete/sell the rest
3. Collect costume pieces/sell extras
4. Dailies.. but I cringe seeing some require at best 5-20 players to do.. a daily.. *shudder* I seen what that's like in many games, after the initial benefit of said quests wear off no one cares to do them again and trying to put a group together is REALLY crappy..
5. Dungeons but I may not do well in those since I been reading too that most can't even complete them and are wipe-fests.. (Hope to rectify my personal experience with finding a decent guild!)
6. Raids.. sounds/seems so far out of my league, I don't like super high stress environments. I found the older I get, the less interest I have in this and I used to raid 'hardcore' in various games prior... Just not much of an interest these days.
7. Pvp.. see above, though Wildstar seems to offer some really interesting objective oriented battlegrounds which have caught my interest :) 
 
What is there for the F2P average player of today? Mounts, pets, dyes, costumes, dailies and maybe shiphands at best.. That's not going to keep people long
The cost of dyes, something silly a lot of people tend to enjoy big time.. is one less thing people will have to entertain themselves with since max level dungeons/raids is pretty much barred closed to the average player who can't do them for whatever reason.
 
I apologize for my rambling post. I hope it's not that difficult to read, but it's things I see from an outside point of view, lookin in that concerns me. I usually love the collecting, crafting, building aspects of the game. Heck even the grinding of reps and dailies are fun for me.. but it's sad seeing that already there are serious concerns on ingame costs of services and difficulty settings and it has me kinda anxious on what to expect. The leveling up process so far seems really great... and so is the rate at gold seems to flow in just doing questing.. I just hope it's enough?	
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{| class="blockquote"
No, actually... I think they did it to deliberately try and get people to purchase Service Tokens and thought very little on its merits as a gold sink. Granted, Carbine has shown in the past with dye prices that they don't necessarily understand how gold sinks work best, but... yeah. I'm pretty sure the absurd prices on dyes and runing are expressly to drive people toward the cash shop to get around them.
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I'm actually fine with repair costs because I like the idea of a death penalty considering that the new holocrypts are so close to bosses now.
 
But I agree on all other points, it does feel like the idea of the high gold cost is to push you into buying service tokens.	
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Repair cost have always been high, to fully repair DS gear about 1pp. People wanted FTP and here it is and how do you make money of FTP you take certain aspects of the game and you put time walll behind it.
 
So your choices to make the money are shiphands, pvp or grinding mobs in blighthaven or spend real money. Also mobs in GA drop alot more money than they use too. Glad to see new people complaing in wildstar good memories.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Repair cost have always been high, to fully repair DS gear about 1pp. People wanted FTP and here it is and how do you make money of FTP you take certain aspects of the game and you put time walll behind it.
 
So your choices to make the money are shiphands, pvp or grinding mobs in blighthaven or spend real money. Also mobs in GA drop alot more money than they use too. Glad to see new people complaing in wildstar good memories.
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All take correct on some anyday of the week also you can avoid rune cost reroll buying service token with omnibits cap is 180 a week or somthing like 60 omnibits for 30 service tokens=2 rerolls X 3= 6 slots. So you can avoid most of the cost right there.
 
This is the best raidcentric mmo there is and most likely the last at least now there are people back on the forum with there gripes and queue hope it stays this way go Wildstar.
			
				
	Edited October 6, 2015 by phat_albert	
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{| class="blockquote"
All take correct on some anyday of the week also you can avoid rune cost reroll buying service token with omnibits cap is 180 a week or somthing like 60 omnibits for 30 service tokens=2 rerolls X 3= 6 slots. So you can avoid most of the cost right there.
 
This is the best raidcentric mmo there is and most likely the last at least now there are people back on the forum with there gripes and queue hope it stays this way go Wildstar.
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Raids themselves prove that this game is not paid to win as are certain vet dungeons. Pay to win would mean i could buy endgame gear and not raid for it like it is currently.
 
This is the one game that so far has resisted become watered down at endgame. In fact a lot of mobs in this game that you could cheese or expolit are patched. Anyone who says this is pay to win is from france.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Raids themselves prove that this game is not paid to win as are certain vet dungeons. Pay to win would mean i could buy endgame gear and not raid for it like it is currently.
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{| class="blockquote"
Raids themselves prove that this game is not paid to win as are certain vet dungeons. Pay to win would mean i could buy endgame gear and not raid for it like it is currently.
 
This is the one game that so far has resisted become watered down at endgame. In fact a lot of mobs in this game that you could cheese or expolit are patched. Anyone who says this is pay to win is from france.
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{| class="blockquote"
All take correct on some anyday of the week also you can avoid rune cost reroll buying service token with omnibits cap is 180 a week or somthing like 60 omnibits for 30 service tokens=2 rerolls X 3= 6 slots. So you can avoid most of the cost right there.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Raids themselves prove that this game is not paid to win as are certain vet dungeons. Pay to win would mean i could buy endgame gear and not raid for it like it is currently.
 
This is the one game that so far has resisted become watered down at endgame. In fact a lot of mobs in this game that you could cheese or expolit are patched. Anyone who says this is pay to win is from france.
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Part of the issue is that while things like dye costs were amped up like crazy (With complete re-dyes going from ~20g to more than 1p) it has become a -lot- harder to make money with NPC vendor prices getting slashes to little bloody giblets.
 
Honestly, at this point I have no idea how to be able to afford keeping my gear stylish and at the same time working on furnishing my house. Input or advice on how to do that would be appreciated because it really is killing me.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Part of the issue is that while things like dye costs were amped up like crazy (With complete re-dyes going from ~20g to more than 1p) it has become a -lot- harder to make money with NPC vendor prices getting slashes to little bloody giblets.
 
Honestly, at this point I have no idea how to be able to afford keeping my gear stylish and at the same time working on furnishing my house. Input or advice on how to do that would be appreciated because it really is killing me.
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{| class="blockquote"
Play the long game. You play MMOs for years, potentially. Play for the community and the fun, try new things and come back to that stuff with the gold you've earned. 
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{| class="blockquote"
Dyeing a costume really shouldn't be "the long game".
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Pay to Make it Stop Hurting is just as bad as Pay to Win. 
 
Not even SW:TOR, the Western MMO p2mish poster child, dares to put gear power on their cash shop.  Well they did early on and got reamed for it.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Play the long game. You play MMOs for years, potentially. Play for the community and the fun, try new things and come back to that stuff with the gold you've earned. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The whole "play the long game" thing only works when the developers play the long game too and treat the time players have invested in their characters with respect. Otherwise, it's very easy to find all your hard work and effort have been eroded overnight after a patch, your past efforts now count for very little and you're being asked to do it all again.
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{| class="blockquote"
Dyeing a costume really shouldn't be "the long game".
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			Buy more CRED guys  XD	
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			Is it me or did none of the dye prices actually change from pre-f2p to now? Granted I can only get in for a couple minutes at a time when I'm lucky, so I can't check easily, but It didn't look like my dye channels were any more expensive (and I checked with my supernova white dye, don't think any are pricier than that one? Maybe true black?).
			
				
	Edited October 6, 2015 by Nazryn	
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{| class="blockquote"
Is it me or did none of the dye prices actually change from pre-f2p to now? Granted I can only get in for a couple minutes at a time when I'm lucky, so I can't check easily, but It didn't look like my dye channels were any more expensive (and I checked with my supernova white dye, don't think any are pricier than that one? Maybe true black?).
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{| class="blockquote"
Is it me or did none of the dye prices actually change from pre-f2p to now? Granted I can only get in for a couple minutes at a time when I'm lucky, so I can't check easily, but It didn't look like my dye channels were any more expensive (and I checked with my supernova white dye, don't think any are pricier than that one? Maybe true black?).
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{| class="blockquote"
Yes, massively so for many dyes.
 
If you're only checking a rare dye like Supernova White then you won't see much difference (or perhaps its actually cheaper). If you're checking a common dye you'll see a HUGE difference.
 
For example Zephyrite, a very common green dye. Before F2P this cost a few silver to apply to all costume channels (around 30s if I remember correctly). It now costs 1p 70g to apply to all channels at level 50. This isn't some lone anomaly, this massive price hike is repeated across the whole range of common and uncommon dyes.
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Just a little thing that for sure will help others with enough time in their hands: all lvl 15 characters gain 20 service tokens from the new bag.
 
But yeah, they need to tweak all prices and also remove the RNG from runes slots.
			
				
	Edited October 6, 2015 by Zelaz	
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			Hmm... Imagine how much easier it would be to afford customization and cosmetic costs if repair costs just went away... :D	
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{| class="blockquote"
Going free to play means they have to come up with ways to create revenue. They will tweak and change until they get a recipe that both the player and the company can live with. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Hmm... Imagine how much easier it would be to afford customization and cosmetic costs if repair costs just went away... :D
----
			I only hope we'll see some leniency in the whole cost issue. Vendor sale prices were cut by what? 80%?	
----
			Something's gotta give, yeah. They'll get more service-token money if people feel like it's a convenient shortcut rather than gun-to-the-head.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Yes, massively so for many dyes.
 
If you're only checking a rare dye like Supernova White then you won't see much difference (or perhaps its actually cheaper). If you're checking a common dye you'll see a HUGE difference.
 
For example Zephyrite, a very common green dye. Before F2P this cost a few silver to apply to all costume channels (around 30s if I remember correctly). It now costs 1p 70g to apply to all channels at level 50. This isn't some lone anomaly, this massive price hike is repeated across the whole range of common and uncommon dyes.
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Hi everyone,Thank you very much for the feedback you've been providing in this thread. We are actively monitoring the in-game economy in light of all the changes we have made with the Reloaded release. Please bear with us while we observe how things trend, and know that if changes are necessary, we will make them with your feedback in mind as soon as we are reasonably able to do so.
 
This is exactly the type of information we need in order to find and address the biggest concerns of our community. Please keep the threads and posts like this coming! Thank you.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Hi everyone,
 
Thank you very much for the feedback you've been providing in this thread. We are actively monitoring the in-game economy in light of all the changes we have made with the Reloaded release. Please bear with us while we observe how things trend, and know that if changes are necessary, we will make them with your feedback in mind as soon as we are reasonably able to do so.
 
This is exactly the type of information we need in order to find and address the biggest concerns of our community. Please keep the threads and posts like this coming! Thank you.
----
			While I appreciate the acknowledgment, the "wait and see" approach is... more than disappointing, considering how much of a strain your bloated pricing for certain things is putting on people.	
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I noticed the price hike as well with dyes. For me, I'm just going to save my money and wait it out. Why spend it when I can spend my money on other things?
 
For the record, I'm a HUGE dye person. I HATE when my gear doesn't match. But I'm willing to "wait and see" as well.	
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			/bump To raise the thread above the spam-solicitation threads	
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{| class="blockquote"
I noticed the price hike as well with dyes. For me, I'm just going to save my money and wait it out. Why spend it when I can spend my money on other things?
 
For the record, I'm a HUGE dye person. I HATE when my gear doesn't match. But I'm willing to "wait and see" as well.
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{| class="blockquote"
Hi everyone,
 
Thank you very much for the feedback you've been providing in this thread. We are actively monitoring the in-game economy in light of all the changes we have made with the Reloaded release. Please bear with us while we observe how things trend, and know that if changes are necessary, we will make them with your feedback in mind as soon as we are reasonably able to do so.
 
This is exactly the type of information we need in order to find and address the biggest concerns of our community. Please keep the threads and posts like this coming! Thank you.
----
			As someone who wants to see wildstar thrive I have to agree with most here, this wait and see approach will likely make things worse, maybe it wont and you guys are right, but I really see this driving many players who actually want to spend money away, I know I already feel that way and and now im iffy about spending money at all.	
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{| class="blockquote"
... Crafting dailies/resources ...
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Agreed, especially things like the holo wardrobe...Cosmetic changes should not be that expensive, because people should feel free to switch up and adjust their appearance freely. I don't really understand it costing gold/platinum to change your dyes...By the time you are level 50 it's obscenely expensive and honestly if it's going to be like that then the gold reward for dailies needs to be cranked up significantly. I can't tell you how much money I have thrown away for cosmetic reasons, I'm a visually driven player in terms of what my avatar looks like etc...If it's not perfect for me then it bugs me. There's already an insane amount of plat/gold sinks in the game as it is between everything the OP listed here, and housing (another thing that, in a way I understand having a gold sink associated with, but things like switching music could probably cost less once you've purchased it once already.)
 
One of my good friends who I play the game with is a very active crafter and housing fan. She basically never changes her appearance though because her money is sunk into everything else and she finds it discouraging having to choose between all of it.
			
				
	Edited October 7, 2015 by Narcoleptic Turtle	
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Shouldn't Signature Service (sub) change these costs back to what they originally were or make them cheaper if they are new to Reloaded release? (I'm new to Wildstar)
 
It seems fair for these things to cost more for f2p players as they will just have to spend more time which is the balance.
 
Signature service seems almost pointless from my perspective.
			
				
	Edited October 7, 2015 by H3rboss	
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Hi Carbine. I love economies. I'm a CREDD collector. At one point I had 90ish. These days I'm down to about 55 because I liquidated into platinum as I saw prices dropping horrifically. This is due to the economy changes you've made, and frankly I think they're pretty bad for everyone. And 'wait and see' just isn't a good solution.
 
The changes were dramatic and need to be dialed back at least partially ASAP. You may not have intended it, but the fact that service cost scales with level hides the problem from players until they hit 50. I think you're going to be seeing a mass exodus when players hit that point. Please fix this before then.
 
The following was done with the F2P patch:
 
* The NPC sell price of tradeskill goods was reduced dramatically across the board. [Huge liquidity loss]
* Crafting now has a dramatic cost penalty per craft in pure gold.
* Dyes are now crazy expensive to use, rarer to acquire (thanks to the challenge changes), and are being sold by the cash shop/fay.
* Randomly you can't use your appearance customization tokens anymore. No warning. Service tokens/ridiculous cash prices only.
* Runing costs money to acquire materials, craft the rune, and seat the rune in the correct slot. AND there's way too many tiers now.
* Some housing items were increased in price.
* Quested gear is now all pretty decent thanks to the stat rebalance.
 
What's the end result of this?
 
* Money is disappearing from circulation quickly, causing massive deflation.
* Crafting costs too much gold so there's little to no material demand (gathering is dead).
* Runing costs too much gold so there's little to no material demand (elemental signs except for fusion are dead).
* Credd is falling in price.
* Very few player to player transactions are worthwhile for anyone anymore. Carbine has effectively killed the economy.
 
What needs to be done?
 
* Revert dye cost changes. This is destroying their own cash shop profits because the dye bought is too expensive to use so no one wants it!
* Paying to reroll runes with gold should be the same functionally as doing it with service tokens. Raise prices if you must but RNG is bad.
* Cash shop/cosmic point dye should be free to apply! You already paid a lot to get the dye, you shouldn't be hit twice.
* Let people sell Credd for gold OR Omnibits (better yet, let us turn CREDD directly into Omnibits or NCoin).
* Crafting needs major revision. It just doesn't make sense to pay a premium for a nice weapon you'll outlevel quickly when quest rewards suffice.
* If you aren't going to revert the NPC sell changes to gathering, you need to let gatherers do something else with those mats. NPC turn in for tokens for something?
* The old challenge system was better. Revert it, improve the current, or somehow combine the two.
* 5 tiers of 1-49 runes is insane. Get rid of this. 2 or 1 only. It breaks up the demand and destroys the price of each item.
 
 
At the end of the day Carbine has a big design philosophy problem running through all of this. They started to look at gold as an enemy of their ability to monetize us. Please don't do that. Players never feel good making less/spending more than they did a month ago. The systems should be parallel and not competing!
 
Wildstar should be the same game it was 2 weeks ego in every way BUT the cash shop. Everything it brings is supposed to be delicious gravy that we all want to consume, not the bitter pill we swallow because we have to.
			
				
	Edited October 7, 2015 by eMachiavelli	
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Not to beat a dying horse or anything but usually when you guys say you are going to tweak shit based off of metrics we don't see a change till months later. The problem you face here is two different economies.
 
On one hand you need gold sinks to get money out of the economy. So you taxed runes.
Runes due to their... well utility have always been expensive, but this is a player to player cost so the money remains "In" the economy.
 
So now players are seeing themselves hit twice, first from other players  selling bits and bobs for crafting runes, second by you for rolling slots.
 
Once again you guys being horrible at itemizing things has come to bite the players in the ass. You could cut the reroll costs by a quarter and it would still be awful for a new level 50 trying to get into dungeons. As much as me comparing this to WoW is going to start a bunch of poo flinging chimpanzees losing their minds despite the fact that this game damn near crashed into the ground: Looking at what WoW has done with gemming and statting recently is probably the way to go.
 
During the MOP expansion it was required to jump through about five different hoops just to get a piece of gear up to the point where it was actually a "Replacement" for the gear you are currently wearing. This is obnoxious, expensive and unfun for the player. So some wise sage said "Lets just do away with that shit." and ya know? They were right. On the other hand you have a problem where your (Carbines)  itemization system is literally worse than anything that has ever come before in that it throws a particularly odious RNG aspect into the fray.
 
Here let me fix it for you:
 
Change itemization back to where the primary needed stats are on the object itself.
 
Simplify the stats set:
 
Primaries:
AP
Support
 
Common Pool:
Crit
Multistrike
 
Switch Healer
Focuspool
Focusregen
 
Switch Tank:
HP
Resists
 
Make the gear sets on supports swap between the important stats in the switch column. And just throw away the "Glance"/"To hit" garbage because it's stupid as hell. The bosses are giants. Now strip out all but one rune on each piece of gear so runererolls to get a set bonus are still a thing "Top Tier Raiders" would do. Tada your itemization no longer punishes players, as a general rule ilvl would dictate what's an upgrade, and no one needs to consult a spreadsheet to see if they should hit the "Need" button. It also ensures that when a piece of "Support" gear drops, someone absolutely needs that. There's no wasted "Sharded" crap.
 
Also make runes cheaper to make, there's nothing fun about running instances just to tear apart crap just so you can rune up for the instance you are actually running because it's circular as hell and it sucks. 
 
Now to make up for all the money you were attempting to gouge out of players (By the way: This kind of idiot brick wall is WHY you are currently free to play instead of enjoying a healthy sub base) make cute goofy outfits/housing plugs/bonus xp doodads and sell them to people. They will buy them if the costs are right. GW2 exists primarily due to it's gem store. Take the lesson there and run with it.
EDIT Again: I mean honestly the fact that you don't have a half dozen "Pay" only houses that players can buy, and are selling packs of furniture that can already be gotten in game shows how far the ball has really been dropped on the cash shop. People would absolutely drop madbux on a neat house that couldn't be gotten via normal game methods. Ditto for furniture packs. Whoever is doing the costumes is on the ball though. Give that dude a cookie.
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			So prices are high yes but have any of you looked at how much gold you actually get as a level 50 clearing content since F2P? its ridiculous! on release I played heavily cleared dungeons easy day in day out and raided a bit and earned about 6 plat doing that over those 2-3 months. Today in F2P i qued for the first available PvP instance over and over and IN ONE DAY earned almost 3 plat and a MASSIVE amount of prestige that I could buy rune bags to sell for an easy 5+ plat on top of that. THATS MORE THEN MY 3 PREVIOUS MONTHS OF PLAY COMBINED! this was with me losing almost all my PvP instances cuz i have no PvP and doing almost no optimization!TL:DR Prices are high but so is gold generation	
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Why not just half the costs of runeing and dying for subscribers for more incentive to subscribe, because right now, there isn't a great deal of incentive to subscribe or keep subscribed. 
 
I'm not at max level so I haven't experienced the eye gouging costs yet, so I could be completely wrong with what I'm suggesting.	
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I'm ok with rune system being expensive for raiding gear, it should be. One does not replace that gear very often, if at all.
 
Everything before that needs it's costs reduced.
 
Dying? Not a required-to-partake-of game system. As a luxury, it should be pricey.
 
Crafting? Always expensive in any game. Salvaging alone loses you out on probably 20 or more plat during the leveling process vs vendoring everything. Just go survival/miner, dig up/chop down/break down everything and sell the mats, keeping the cores and rares for when you decide to craft.	
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I agree that cosmetic stuff really sell, have plenty of experience from different games where the cash shop sells new costumes and other cosmetic stuff, and the players gladly buy them. I know I would. In another game that I play, I've never spent a dime on EXP boosts, or currency boosts. All I've ever bought are costumes. I'm sure there are a lot of people who think the same.
 
I played Wildstar from beta to a few weeks after the strain drop. I quit because my RL friends left for different reasons (game getting too hardcore for some of them, or moving to a new house, having a kid etc.) I just came back when the game went f2p and the first thing I checked was the holowardrobe. I was glad for the changes, felt much easier. Do costume parts you unlock for one character become available to your other toons as well? I haven't checked yet. But anyway, what really jumped out at me were the costs for unlocking the armors for costume use, and the dyeing costs. I think I've spent several plats already just changing my colors and not playing the game lol. Hopefully the costs go down eventually. 
 
Speaking of dyes, how do you get/where do you buy them these days? I checked the AH and couldn't seem to find em there. Or maybe I'm just being a nub :P
 
Sorry for the offtopic!	
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