120800-a-request-that-players-stop-asking-other-players-to-leave-the-game

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"Leave to go play some other game" is the sort of "advice" that people on these forums toss at those who disagree with them more frequently than I have ever seen in any other game's forums. I believe it to be particularly insulting, condescending, and damaging to the game's reputation, because it's the type of thing that reinforces the perception of anyone who reads these forums that this game's playerbase is incredibly mean-spirited and toxic.
 
So I'd like to take a moment to ask players to stop encouraging other players to leave the game just because they don't share the same vision of what the game should be. It is short-sighted and terribly destructive to the health of the game, which needs very badly to retain its players if it is going to survive. 
 
I'd also love to have some clarification about how this kind of thing is viewed by our community managers if any is available. Is "If you don't share my opinion, you should leave the game and go play some other one" part of the the respectful and constructive discourse we're all expected to abide by? I see it used a lot by a surprisingly large number of people, so if there's any official statement somewhere about whether I should report it when I see it, I'd really appreciate a link to it.
 
PS. To those who have suggested that I leave the game, sorry. Not going anywhere.   :lol:
 
 	
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			We are entitled to our free speech as long as we don't name-call, flame, name-and-shame. Choosing to heed the words of frustration isn't the way to handle a situation. I do believe that a post like this, being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative helps no one.	
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I fully agree with you, that this kind of interaction is worthless.
Not only "recommendations to leave", but also the way to play down any kind of suggestions or change requests, you will find everywhere.
Many people can't think out of their little box.
 
But it's not specific or distinct to the W* forum community. You find these kind of participants in forums of many, may be all, games.
It's pointless to fight them, and the forum mods have no chance to prohibit these patterns and behaviour, unless it ends in censorship.
 
I think, the only way to deal with it, is ignoring those shortsighted minds.	
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Hello!
 
While it's not particularly enlightening or positive to tell someone they should just go play a different game, it is in the end also not a flat out insult and is just an opinion (ie: Maybe you would be better off playing a different game). Players don't have to listen to the advice and can hopefully make their own decisions as to whether or not they want to remain playing. If the comments start stepping onto personal ground (ie: Maybe you would be better off playing a different game because you're really just no good at this one and I think you're horrible) it is certainly a comment that could be moderated by our team. If you're ever unsure as to whether or not a comment is "OK" please don't hesitate to report it to our moderating team (bottom right hand corner of a post) for review. 
 
Typically, we prefer players to lead by example (self moderation can go a long way). If you're afraid the community is toxic and mean-spirited, there are certainly actions you can personally take to help negate this by the way your own posts are framed, as well as responses. Personally, I have seen some great debates and conversations in all sections of our forums with relatively few disruptions. They happen, because lets face it, this is the internet, but for the most part I think the community here can be quite friendly. 
 
- Team WildStar 	
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			I know what you mean, but let's say WildStar is a pizzeria. A customer walks in, wanting to order a burger. You offer him a pizza with extra ground beef but he refuses.. Sometimes there's nothing much else but to recommend a burger joint. ;)	
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I know what you mean, but let's say WildStar is a pizzeria. A customer walks in, wanting to order a burger. You offer him a pizza with extra ground beef but he refuses.. Sometimes there's nothing much else but to recommend a burger joint. ;)
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			I've only used the forums for WS and FFXIV even though I've played so many MMOs now. Back in FFXIV's forum, showing a picture of a door with a not-so-witty remark about using it was pretty much common practice for any complaints you made.Just blowing a non-issue out of proportion by making a thread about people saying stupid stuff, I think we here encourage people to play the game usually though in any case, I know I try to at least.	
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I know what you mean, but let's say WildStar is a pizzeria. A customer walks in, wanting to order a burger. You offer him a pizza with extra ground beef but he refuses.. Sometimes there's nothing much else but to recommend a burger joint. ;)
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i love analogies. what if the customer walks in and asks for a cheese pizza, but the store is out of cheese pizza. you are a pizzeria and you do sell pizza but youre just out of their kind. what do you do then?
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"Leave to go play some other game" is the sort of "advice" that people on these forums toss at those who disagree with them more frequently than I have ever seen in any other game's forums. I believe it to be particularly insulting, condescending, and damaging to the game's reputation, because it's the type of thing that reinforces the perception of anyone who reads these forums that this game's playerbase is incredibly mean-spirited and toxic.
 
So I'd like to take a moment to ask players to stop encouraging other players to leave the game just because they don't share the same vision of what the game should be. It is short-sighted and terribly destructive to the health of the game, which needs very badly to retain its players if it is going to survive. 
 
I'd also love to have some clarification about how this kind of thing is viewed by our community managers if any is available. Is "If you don't share my opinion, you should leave the game and go play some other one" part of the the respectful and constructive discourse we're all expected to abide by? I see it used a lot by a surprisingly large number of people, so if there's any official statement somewhere about whether I should report it when I see it, I'd really appreciate a link to it.
 
PS. To those who have suggested that I leave the game, sorry to get your hopes up with that title. :lol:
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i love analogies. what if the customer walks in and asks for a cheese pizza, but the store is out of cheese pizza. you are a pizzeria and you do sell pizza but youre just out of their kind. what do you do then?
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i love analogies. what if the customer walks in and asks for a cheese pizza, but the store is out of cheese pizza. you are a pizzeria and you do sell pizza but youre just out of their kind. what do you do then?
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			Just a new player, chiming in; compared to the game I just came from, this community is sunshine and cupcakes. I actually decided to play this game because of the community, as represented by these forums. Obviously there's some negativity, but it's a huge relief to me how the community seems to manage it.	
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Hello!
 
While it's not particularly enlightening or positive to tell someone they should just go play a different game, it is in the end also not a flat out insult and is just an opinion (ie: Maybe you would be better off playing a different game). Players don't have to listen to the advice and can hopefully make their own decisions as to whether or not they want to remain playing. If the comments start stepping onto personal ground (ie: Maybe you would be better off playing a different game because you're really just no good at this one and I think you're horrible) it is certainly a comment that could be moderated by our team. If you're ever unsure as to whether or not a comment is "OK" please don't hesitate to report it to our moderating team (bottom right hand corner of a post) for review. 
 
Typically, we prefer players to lead by example (self moderation can go a long way). If you're afraid the community is toxic and mean-spirited, there are certainly actions you can personally take to help negate this by the way your own posts are framed, as well as responses. Personally, I have seen some great debates and conversations in all sections of our forums with relatively few disruptions. They happen, because lets face it, this is the internet, but for the most part I think the community here can be quite friendly. 
 
- Team WildStar 
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			I'm hungry...	
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A customer walks in and says "You know what I'd like on my pizza? Pepperoni. It's actually the single most popular style of pizza there is, and strangely, you only have it on your kids' menu. I think you should have it available for the larger sizes of pizza, too!"
Then a table full of other customers starts shouting "We like sausage pizza! No pepperoni!"
The customer who wants pepperoni pizza tries to explain that really, he isn't trying to remove sausage pizza from the menu, he'd just like to also have the option to have pepperoni pizza. It doesn't matter. The other customers ask him why he hates all pizza. They wonder if he's ever tried any pizza. They ask him to regurgitate a chunk of sausage to prove that he has eaten pizza. They suggest he go find a deli if he loves pepperoni so much. They tell him, incorrectly, that the pizza place advertised that there would only be sausage pizza.
The customer turns to the pizza store owner and says "Wow, really? Is this the kind of business you're looking to attract?"
And the owner replies "You could do your part to improve the tone around here too, y'know."
 
That's the pizzeria version of Wildstar.
 
I love analogies.
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I hate to burst everyone's bubbles in this analogy train, but Raising Cain's is one of the most popular restaurant chains in America selling four combos that are almost exactly the same and almost nothing else.
 
I like them better than eating pizza with any measure of variety.	
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I hate to burst everyone's bubbles in this analogy train, but Raising Cain's is one of the most popular restaurant chains in America selling four combos that are almost exactly the same and almost nothing else.
 
I like them better than eating pizza with any measure of variety.
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Thanks very much, that's quite educational.
The next time I'm inviting someone to leave the game, I'll keep your advice about doing my part to self-moderate in mind.
 
 
I have a better analogy for you. Let's say Wildstar is a pizzeria. 
A customer walks in and says "You know what I'd like on my pizza? Pepperoni. It's actually the single most popular style of pizza there is, and strangely, you only have it on your kids' menu. I think you should have it available for the larger sizes of pizza, too!"
Then a table full of other customers starts shouting "We like sausage pizza! No pepperoni!"
The customer who wants pepperoni pizza tries to explain that really, he isn't trying to remove sausage pizza from the menu, he'd just like to also have the option to have pepperoni pizza. It doesn't matter. The other customers ask him why he hates all pizza. They wonder if he's ever tried any pizza. They ask him to regurgitate a chunk of sausage to prove that he has eaten pizza. They suggest he go find a deli if he loves pepperoni so much. They tell him, incorrectly, that the pizza place advertised that there would only be sausage pizza. They tell him, more correctly, that if people could have pepperoni pizza then sausage pizza wouldn't be nearly as popular at this restaurant as it is.
The customer turns to the pizza store owner and says "Wow, really? Is this the kind of business you're looking to attract?"
And the owner replies "You could do your part to improve the tone around here too, y'know."
 
That's the pizzeria version of Wildstar.
 
I love analogies.
 
Edit: Added the bit about how those sausage-pizza lovers are adamant that if people could eat pepperoni pizza, there wouldn't be as many people eating sausage pizza. I like the way it makes the analogy even closer to the way this game does business.
Edit2: Should I add that the pizzeria doesn't have very many customers, which is quite surprising given how good the dough, pizza sauce, and cheeses are? Or would that be getting a little TOO accurate? I suppose I'll just mention it here.
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			So, in you're opinion, only your opinion matters?  Then why post the thread? Nifty Engi captured the nature of the statement and presented you with opposition, from what I read it went to the heart of the matter fully. It was done not as insult, take it at face value. There are a lot of games out there. For the most part MMO's all have their niche audience.  The value of the game is taken by the player.  But I do not ask for an orange expecting an apple.  The problem here is it doesn't meet your(fill in the blank for whomever this applies to) needs, there is something out there that does.	
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Thanks very much, that's quite educational.
The next time I'm inviting someone to leave the game, I'll keep your advice about doing my part to self-moderate in mind.
 
 
I have a better analogy for you. Let's say Wildstar is a pizzeria. 
A customer walks in and says "You know what I'd like on my pizza? Pepperoni. It's actually the single most popular style of pizza there is, and strangely, you only have it on your kids' menu. I think you should have it available for the larger sizes of pizza, too!"
Then a table full of other customers starts shouting "We like sausage pizza! No pepperoni!"
The customer who wants pepperoni pizza tries to explain that really, he isn't trying to remove sausage pizza from the menu, he'd just like to also have the option to have pepperoni pizza. It doesn't matter. The other customers ask him why he hates all pizza. They wonder if he's ever tried any pizza. They ask him to regurgitate a chunk of sausage to prove that he has eaten pizza. They suggest he go find a deli if he loves pepperoni so much. They tell him, incorrectly, that the pizza place advertised that there would only be sausage pizza. They tell him, more correctly, that if people could have pepperoni pizza then sausage pizza wouldn't be nearly as popular at this restaurant as it is.
The customer turns to the pizza store owner and says "Wow, really? Is this the kind of business you're looking to attract?"
And the owner replies "You could do your part to improve the tone around here too, y'know."
 
That's the pizzeria version of Wildstar.
 
I love analogies.
 
Edit: Added the bit about how those sausage-pizza lovers are adamant that if people could eat pepperoni pizza, there wouldn't be as many people eating sausage pizza. I like the way it makes the analogy even closer to the way this game does business.
Edit2: Should I add that the pizzeria doesn't have very many customers, which is quite surprising given how good the dough, pizza sauce, and cheeses are? Or would that be getting a little TOO accurate? I suppose I'll just mention it here.
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While these analogies are somewhat cute, I think we are intentionally avoiding the op. These forums are in no way the most toxic forums around. However the suggestion to  "go play another game" IS a standard insult thrown at those who would say negative things about a game. It sometimes also used by those who are honestly trying to help. Because it is used in both negative and positive ways moderators are forced to generally ignore it.
 
The regulars, and that group is small enough now that I think we know who we are, often make rather toxic comments. I think we sometimes forget that we ( the regulars ) all want the game to succeed. We just have differing ideas as to what may be wrong and how to fix it. Some of us are the White Knights while others are more the Doomsayers. (Yes I know who you are)
 
The thing is, if our little group wants more people to play with then Yasfan's idea about a good impression.....IS a good idea.
 
I try not to post in anger and often have deleted instead of hitting the post button. I also know that I have made some statements that another time I may not have. Of course sometimes we all feel we have no other choice but to say certain things. At those times, so be it.	
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Deciding whether to play another game or not ais always a personal decision.
 
WildStar has suffered by some really bad gamer PR from a community (in general) that tends to be very toxic and finicky; that is MMO players. That extends to people wishing it do bad so that it goes F2P, people hating it because it is not enough like some other game, or (insert random reason here). Some of it of Carbine's making, some not.
 
Anyhow, some people come into the forums saying how much the game sucks, how they hate the game, how it is going to fail etc, etc. It appears those people might be better served playing a different game that better fits the I ideas of an MMO.
 
That is not used as an insult but as a suggestion of an option that might benefit both parties the most.
 
Some people do come to offer honest feedback (that often times borders on hate speech), people can express however they want but doing so that way often incites a negative response by passionate (and defensive) players.
 
To be honest the best thing would be for people to ignore the hate speech and do their own individual part on speaking respectfully to everybody (0ther players and carbine included).
 
However, some people claim they can't be bothered to remain respectful, they have the right to speak however they want because they speak the truth (whatever that might be).
 
TLDR- just be nice to each other. Don't feed disrespectful people.	
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			The real question and the one I'm still waiting for an answer from you for yasfan. Why do you hate this game so much? Answer the question or I will be forced to use the word dickpickle again.	
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So I'd like to take a moment to ask players to stop encouraging other players to leave the game just because they don't share the same vision of what the game should be. It is short-sighted and terribly destructive to the health of the game, which needs very badly to retain its players if it is going to survive. 
 
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Being critical of a game does not necessarily mean you dislike it. No game is perfect, so it is conceivable that you could enjoy a game enough to play it but still have legitimate ideas on how it could improve. If it is the fundamental design of the game you dislike then yes, moving on would be best. But if you love the game at its core and have suggestions for how it could be refined or improved, you should be vocally critical of it in a constructive way. 
 
As something of an outsider, I am baffled by this split between the "hard-core" and "casual" camps that comment on this game. The game itself launched with story content, crafting, paths, dungeons, raids, battlegrounds, RP realms etc., so I think it's safe to say the original design encompassed many play styles. If there is an aspect of the game you really enjoy but you think it needs more work or could be expanded upon and if you think said expansion would broaden the appeal of this game to more people, why wouldn't you voice that? 
 
But perhaps I don't understand the full argument from both sides. Personally, I have really enjoyed this game and see a ton of potential. And I hope further development improves the game in such a way that more people get to experience all the different content types the game offers. Because honestly there is nothing else like this on the market; no other MMO that I hope will set the standard for next-gen MMOs like WildStar. The Lore, setting, visual design, tone, combat, crafting... I could go on and on. Is any of it perfect? No, but it's a strong foundation that I hope to see fleshed out even more. And that can only happen when weaknesses are exposed through honest criticism by both developers and players. Even if we don't all agree on what those weaknesses are. ;)	
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The problem with yasfan is that he/she has issues with every single part the game.
 
If you look at the post history its nothing but ideas how the game should be changed to meet his/her needs and if the game was just easier the game would have a lot more players (wut?)
 
This is why people are tired of this individual, not because users in general suggest changes. We all know changes are needed to the game.	
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That makes more sense, like I said, I'm kind of an outsider to specifics but I am aware that there are differences in opinion as to the direction the game should go loosely based around raiding/ hardcore verse a more causal game.
 
So to jump on the analogy bandwagon, it's like Carbine has invented an automobile and some people want it to drive like a Delorean, while others want it to function more like a VW wagon, but the OP wants it to be a toaster. Is that more or less the situation from the viewpoint of those opposing the OP? I mean, that alone is probably a worthwhile discussion-- what constitutes the core game? Or how much could you remove completely and still have a game that is fundamentally WildStar? Hmm, I might start a post to that end. 
 
Regardless, everyone's entitled to a civil opinion, even those who want a toaster. It sounds like the best thing for those who disagree with the OP at this point is simply to not respond. Let the OP voice his or her opinion but don't interact with it. Agree to disagree.	
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The problem with yasfan is that he/she has issues with every single part the game.
 
If you look at the post history its nothing but ideas how the game should be changed to meet his/her needs and if the game was just easier the game would have a lot more players (wut?)
 
This is why people are tired of this individual, not because users in general suggest changes. We all know changes are needed to the game, but not every single aspect.
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Can I make a request?
 
Can I request that people stop making drama posts because they got told of on another topic?
We all have our ideas and opinions.
Freedom of Speech means I can say what I want, you're not required to listen or to accept it.	
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If you seriously think that my posts are only about 1) how the game should be changed to meet my needs and 2) making the game easier, I don't think you're reading my posts very well. In fact, I think you're doing a great job of validating my version of the pizzeria analogy earlier in this thread.
 
I'm pretty sure you'll find more than one post where I point out that I am <0.001% of the playerbase and doing things just because I want them done would be silly. I would be advocating for content aimed at the 60-70% of the customerbase that prefers solo to group content whether I personally was in that group or not, because it's most of the people who keep games like this in business.
 
I advocate for attunement to be more focused and less tedious than it is not because I think it will address the issues _I_ have with raiding--which are mainly focused on the "social aspects of raiding" that these forums display so effectively--but because I have personally watched people get to attunement and then leave this game because they're out of content they're willing to do. Not because it's too hard. Because they don't enjoy grinding to just to prove they can slog through tedium.
 
It offends them, and I while my own tolerance for grinding is higher than theirs, I can understand why it offends them.
 
I was also one of the people who advocated keeping the 40-man version of DS around for people who like 40-man content whether the 20-man version rolled out or not. I know I will never set foot in it, but some people like it so much that they describe it as the reason they bought this game. It's already in the game. It would cost nothing to keep it. Removing their ability to do something that they like that would literally cost nothing to retain is just... senseless. 
 
Try to keep that in mind if you don't hit 9/9 in the next few weeks when Drop 4 is supposed to come out. Because make no mistake--if you still haven't downed Avatus a few weeks from now, I will be one of the players pushing for this game to roll out Drop 4 in a timely fashion whether you guys hit 9/9 or not. 
 
Not because of anything to do with my needs. Because the gaming interests of 40 players are not more important than the gaming interests of hundreds of thousands of players.
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Yes weakness. Usually the best thing is to ignore. However I think people are afraid of the squeaky wheel getting the oil so they feel the need to be squakier.
 
Part of the problem is also that most people bought into WildStar due to the design philosophy that the game was sold under. A lot of people thought they liked that design philosophy but in reality they did not. They liked the idea of it but not it.
 
Things like high difficulty, gated content, yes "hardcoreness" (whatever that is), stream lined combat, etc.
 
Then people come in and say, you know what would be great? If all those reasons why you bought the game went away and you made it more like this other game. The natural response is to suggest to those people to play a different game instead of trying to fit a square peg in the wrong hole. If it is only the color that changes then great but when you complain that the hole should be different, well there is no fixing that.
 
I am by all means a casual player, I have not set foot within a raid yet. Perhaps I never will and that is okay because that is not the content that matches my current involvement or ability level. When my involvement or ability level matches that of that content then I will have access to it. Seems simple and fair.	
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Can I make a request?
 
Can I request that people stop making drama posts because they got told of on another topic?
We all have our ideas and opinions.
Freedom of Speech means I can say what I want, you're not required to listen or to accept it.
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			n/m responded to wrong thread 	
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I believe the Dev speak you are referring to is the one that talks about character and mount customization so I wouldn't dig too deep on that hole.
 
All end game does not point towards raiding. People just tend to get fixated on that. They introduced a single player dungeon that advances the story. Drop 4 introduces vet shiphands and a couple dungeons. People spend tons of time in housing and RP'ing, etc. It is also clear that elder game is a work in progress (along with bug fixes, balancing, etc).
 
Yes one size does not fit all. That also means that not all content is accessible to everybody unless they adapt to the content (hence the one size not fitting everybody).	
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I was also one of the people who advocated keeping the 40-man version of DS around for people who like 40-man content whether the 20-man version rolled out or not. I know I will never set foot in it, but some people like it so much that they describe it as the reason they bought this game. It's already in the game. It would cost nothing to keep it. Removing their ability to do something that they like that would literally cost nothing to retain is just... senseless.
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It's being removed because there -is- a cost to keeping it.  From what I understand, there are still significant bugs and tuning issues that need to be addressed because they couldn't convince their QA resources to test it.  Yes, their premiere content (this also includes warplots) was just thrown over the wall in an embarrassing state.
 
IIRC in the conversion to 20 at least two bosses needed significant rework.  They just don't have the staff to maintain both versions and it would be silly to add staff for the miniscule population that would opt to run the 40.
 
40 was a grand experiment.  They made a poor assumption that transitioning two 20-man teams to a 40-man format wasn't going to be a big deal.  Maybe it would have worked better if GA was also a 40.  I sincerely doubt it but then I'm not at all a fan of the 40 format because of the logistical complexity it requires.
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Can I make a request?
 
Can I request that people stop making drama posts because they got told of on another topic?
We all have our ideas and opinions.
Freedom of Speech means I can say what I want, you're not required to listen or to accept it.
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{| class="blockquote"
Can I make a request?
 
Can I request that people stop making drama posts because they got told of on another topic?
We all have our ideas and opinions.
Freedom of Speech means I can say what I want, you're not required to listen or to accept it.
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Olivar,
 
It's funny that almost any time anywhere when someone is asked to be polite, they start screaming about free speech. Let's get this straight, you and I do not have free speech here. While it may seem like you can say what you want, you cannot.
 
Plus, I think the request to all of us was not to be a douche. If your idea of free speech requires that you behave in that way, then continue on with the free speech argument. Based on what i have seen of your posts in the past, I don't think it does.
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That's the thing exactly yasfan.
when looking at the complete post where this topic originated from, the remarks can be placed under respectful and constructive.
The way your posts came across to the people who made this remarks, they implied that you have a problem with almost any part of the game.
They made numerous suggestions and solutions, and let's be honest here, you shot them all down, or tried to counter all of them.
At this point they are right. If you do not like the game, and you cannot compromise on the solutions listed, then indeed it might be better to move on to a different game.
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Thank you for your constructive and respectful contributions to this thread. IF I did not like the game, I would in fact be gone from it already and playing a different game. As it turns out, though, I do like the game. So no, at this point they are not right. And neither are you, if you think they are.
 
In fact, you are even more wrong than they are. Because you are presuming that I started this thread over what they said to me. I didn't. 
 
I think you will find, if you compare the time when this thread started to the posts in the thread you're referring to, that the last post in it prior to my OP in this thread was this one here. Note that it contains a quote, made by someone other than myself, and a response in which the person who was quoted was respectfully and constructively invited to find another game to play.
 
That was what inspired the current thread. While it is true that I have similarly been respectfully and constructively invited to leave the game many times, it doesn't bother me all that much when it's leveled at me. I fully expect that people will be more combative over the internet than they would be in person. I'm well aware that some people get what they want not because they have good reasons but because they can snarl really well. I understand perfectly that some people have a stronger interest in what happens in a video game than the idle enjoyment of their free time. And--most importantly--I know that I'm not leaving this game because some random guy on the internet thinks I might be better suited for Hello Kitty Adventures. His unsolicited opinion of what games I should play tells me a lot more about him than it does about what games I should play.
 
But when it's leveled at other people, it bothers me a lot more because I don't know their situation. I go from being the target to being a bystander, watching someone else be a target. And what I saw as a bystander offended me in a way that I was not offended when it was being leveled at me.
 
So with all due respect, Other Random Guy On The Internet, you don't know me as well as you think you do.
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Hey, Hey, don't be dissing Hello Kitty Online. That's a really fun MMO to be playing now.
And you're right, I don't know you; nor do I presumme to know you.
The biggest problem that we're dealing with yasfan is interpretation on text form, which is the worst possible form of communication, especially if you're dealing with non-native speakers.
So much nuance is lost in writing out something, even if it's well written with good examples.
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Thank you for your constructive and respectful contributions to this thread. IF I did not like the game, I would in fact be gone from it already and playing a different game. As it turns out, though, I do like the game. So no, at this point they are not right. And neither are you, if you think they are.
 
In fact, you are even more wrong than they are. Because you are presuming that I started this thread over what they said to me. I didn't. 
 
I think you will find, if you compare the time when this thread started to the posts in the thread you're referring to, that the last post in it prior to my OP in this thread was this one here. Note that it contains a quote, made by someone other than myself, and a response in which the person who was quoted was respectfully and constructively invited to find another game to play.
 
That was what inspired the current thread. While it is true that I have similarly been respectfully and constructively invited to leave the game many times, it doesn't bother me all that much when it's leveled at me. I fully expect that people will be more combative over the internet than they would be in person. I'm well aware that some people get what they want not because they have good reasons but because they can snarl really well. I understand perfectly that some people have a stronger interest in what happens in a video game than the idle enjoyment of their free time. And--most importantly--I know that I'm not leaving this game because some random guy on the internet thinks I might be better suited for Hello Kitty Adventures. His unsolicited opinion of what games I should play tells me a lot more about him than it does about what games I should play.
 
But when it's leveled at other people, it bothers me a lot more because I don't know their situation. I go from being the target to being a bystander, watching someone else be a target. And what I saw as a bystander offended me in a way that I was not offended when it was being leveled at me.
 
So with all due respect, Other Random Guy On The Internet, you don't know me as well as you think you do.
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"Leave to go play some other game" is the sort of "advice" that people on these forums toss at those who disagree with them more frequently than I have ever seen in any other game's forums.
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			YES I agree, people are entitled to free speech BUT they are still free to choose promoting or negating the game they are playing AND the game they wont want the population to decline.I would say players just aren't good politicians (in fact they don't have to be).Because they can just ruin the game as they can just find another game to play.With that said, I still think the major issue would lie in Carbine's not doing hard enough to satisfy everyone...	
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 You're insane. Keep enjoying your own stench; you're the only one who does.
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 You're far from guilt-free in this ridiculous statement; any time you're met with anh opposition at all you attack personally. Now you're crying because you get the same treatment you've been dishing out? You're insane. Keep enjoying your own stench; you're the only one who does.
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*snort* I'm sorry, did you call out someone about attacking others with ad hominem attacks while using an ad hominem attack yourself? And worse, you even justify it with the most childish of justifications: 'hey, you did it first!' Does that mean that if you attack me with strawmen arguments then I'm suddenly right to use strawmen against yours? Or if you bring a ciruclar argument then I can use circular arguments to refute you? Or use any given fallacy to counter any given fallacy of the same type? Don't you think that's incredibly stupid?
 
Also, if by 'stench' you mean 'posts', I'm sorry. I like Yasfan's posts. So now the last part of your statement is false and even more evidently an ad hominem attack, if there was ever any doubt of what that was, I mean.
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Reason and logic don't work with him, he just tries to discredit anyone who disagrees with him and then tries to play the victim whenever someone calls him out. Stupid is exactly what it is, but that seems to be the only language that's understood here.
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			Why even put this on the forums. First off its just going to get trolls. Second off if they keep telling people to leave and they do they wont be playing the game that long cause they will just shut it down. Then the only people that would be left playing are the ones telling ever one to leave! I would love to see a raid group like that. I haven't seen this for some time but I am sure there still out there but to all that do do this u should think the games pop small now and at some point if it keeps getting smaller they will just shut the game down for all of us. So people should try to be more help full you know its a game and there are new people playing that don't know ever thing the way some think they should. I run into more helpful people then not tho.	
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