106187-something-stinks-about-ampability-drop-rates

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I wanted to ask the devs to take another look at the drop rates of these highly sought items as I believe there is still little evidence to show that they are dropping in any of the environments, either open world, dungeons or adventures. 
 
Given that the player base is now dwindling a little, would it not be time to maybe reexamine the way that we gain these, as by my count, it will take me 14 weeks to get the desired amp points to get the amp I want on my stalker tank, and that's just the first milestone. 14 weeks due to the artificially low weekly cap.
 
That is not progression, after all I assume you wanted elder gems to be something we want to strive for and allow our character to grow. 3.5 months for my first noticeable upgrade seems a little excessive. 
 
So, my suggestion is to have no cap on elder gems. This would reward those who played longer to get it faster, but this could be countered by making the Elder gem purchases tradeable. Those people with more time could sell them for gold, bought by people lagging behind with Credd, like a cyclical relationship. 
 
The alternative is to increase the drop rates even further , which has a similar effect but it is not so controllable as it's based on randomness. I'd prefer to be working on amp points and ability points for a time, finish off a character and maybe then work on an alt. The current system really just stops me even desiring to do an alt as I have to face a year of doing dailies to finish it off.	
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			Chua not found any self, but heard Human finding them as world drop in daily zones.	
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			There is nothing wrong with AMP/Ability drop rates. They shouldn't even drop tbh, make them EG exclusive. That way players actually are rewarded for dedication to a class rather than being able to FOTM and buy them.	
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There is nothing wrong with AMP/Ability drop rates. They shouldn't even drop tbh, make them EG exclusive. That way players actually are rewarded for dedication to a class rather than being able to FOTM and buy them.
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I'd agree with that Xephonon, if the estimated time to stay dedicated to that class didn't add up to 43 weeks of grinding your dailies and such and hitting elder cap each week. Some weeks, I could double or triple the 140 cap, other weeks I could take a break. Either way, I feel totally disinclined to work on any other character as the length of actual time taken is way too long.
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There is nothing wrong with AMP/Ability drop rates. They shouldn't even drop tbh, make them EG exclusive. That way players actually are rewarded for dedication to a class rather than being able to FOTM and buy them.
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Obviously you haven't heard that the EG vendor is supposed to be the last ditch effort for everything they provide in this aspect. CRB has come out and said that drop rates are really low and they made them drop 100% better than before but we went from 1:1,000,000 to 1:1000.000. Thus still a horrible drop rate for something that is supposed to be the primary way to acquire them. I should be seeing one drop every 2-3 weeks to make up for the rate I make EGs
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I have heard that. I just don't agree with it. I don't see a bad thing in EG exclusivity considering MMOs are supposed to be very long-term.
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Just think of the extras abilities/amps as Alternate Advancement.
 
And then be happy it isn't gonna cost gazillion points to "max-out" your character. :D	
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			Well, alt's make a game, FOTM rollers are always going to be there whether they have the amp points or not. I'm not suggesting that it should not be a significant amount of time and effort to cap yourself, but nearly a year of weekly caps is just ludicrous.	
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			The only other alternative I can see is to make them drop as part of adventure and dungeon runs, possibly via the gold medal system, in addition to whatever loot was going to drop. This Would stave off the drought we are currently seeing, but would put emphasis on them as content at 50	
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The drop rate for these is just horrible, it doesnt matter how much you play and spend time killing mobs, it's so luck based..Have heard some ppl kill a few mobs and then get one amp point drop for them, while I have grinded various mobs for hours and hours each day (around 100plat looted from the mobs so far, no idea whats the drop per lvl50mob tho) and havent seen a single one amp/ability point drop yet.
 
Only reasonable way to gain those is to use the "backup" system aka gem vendor.
And if that really is the backup system this is clearly bugged and not working as intended, some dev could really give insight on this if it's gonna stay like this or if it's getting looked at :-I	
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			they don't exist, ingame, anyone who got one is exploiting lol	
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Added to all the other tedious grinds in this game, the random drop, pray to RNGeesus, nature of the final ability/amp points is really just over the top stupid.  They should never have done amp/ability points this way.  No other MMO I have ever played does this, and having to spend half a year to grind out the final ability points of your toon just makes me not want to bother playing anymore.
 
Every day I find less and less reasons to log in and play.  The game was released too soon, and the devs made a bunch of rookie mistakes which are now further alienating the player base.  Tedium and RNG do not make a game fun.	
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If it only took a few weeks to cap on Ability/AMPs, FOTM players would still be on par.
 
Developers need to actively put FOTM players at a slight disadvantage over the dedicated players.
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Developers need to actively put FOTM players at a slight disadvantage over the dedicated players.
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			Would be nice to get more information from the devs to this topic. At the moment it is just a lie that the eg-vendor points are supposed to be backup for unlucky people.	
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			At the bare minimum, there should be 1 unique use AMP and/or Ability point available at each end game rep vendor at beloved reputation (Grimvault, Malgrave Research, Crimson Badlands, Blighthaven, Northern Wastes) for a nominal gold or EP fee (25-50.)  Drop rates of the BoE points SHOULD be rare...BUT, there needs to be other ways to EARN them besides wait 3 weeks to buy one using all of your EP.	
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I really dislike the extra ability and AMP points all together, to be honest. It doesn't feel very nice to know that you're working at a disadvantage just with baseline skill points, which can have some significant impact on not just player power but the tools available to a player. I'm okay with gear being a grind, but once you're level capped, your spells/abilities should be just as good as anyone else's.
 
Personally I prefer Rift's Planar Attunement as a level cap form of character advancement.	
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The only other alternative I can see is to make them drop as part of adventure and dungeon runs, possibly via the gold medal system, in addition to whatever loot was going to drop. This Would stave off the drought we are currently seeing, but would put emphasis on them as content at 50
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Are the devs answering somehow? I don`t need listening devs if they aren`t honest.
 
It`s in the same boat like technologist talents some of them are broken since release and in the current ptr notes the expert research arrived, but no word about fixing not working talents.	
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There is nothing wrong with AMP/Ability drop rates. They shouldn't even drop tbh, make them EG exclusive. That way players actually are rewarded for dedication to a class rather than being able to FOTM and buy them.
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Yeah, lets punish people that have alts for their guild to fit in when X class doesn't show up but Y does by making the dumb EG grind the only way to get amp/ability points.
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the extra (accent on extra) AMP / ability points are not necessary for any content... not having extra luxury bits is not 'punishment'. 
 
As it stands with the prices at the EG vendor, it should take ~2.5 weeks per amp/ability point drop with current drop rates. In my experience that's about what it is if you play often and in groups (all the drops I've seen have been while grouped, for what it's worth).
 
They are not meant to be common. And they aren't. 
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So at what number does having extra tier and amp point becomes an tide turner?
 
1? 2? 3? 4? 5? 6? 7? 8? 9? 10?
 
let say you are in the level 30 BG.
 
Someone who entered as level 30 will have 7 less tier points and 7 less amp point than someone who joined as level 37.  
 
So if they are in the same gear (gear scaling is all over the place) does that mean the level 30 will be face rolled by the level 37 rallied as level 30?
 
because that is essentially what a level 50 vs level 50 +7/10 is.
 
How about level 32 vs level 37, level 35 vs level 37?
 
People keep losing perspective and make it seem like "OMG I am x amp point behind, I will be someone's -cupcake- till I am at the exact number of amp as him/she!!!!!" which is incredibly untrue.
 
As for the rarity of the Amp drops and Tier drops - I am not sure.  I don't think there is much data on those yet, but at least now they drop.  I got 1 recently, so that saved 3 weeks off my time.  Maybe in another week I will get another, but who knows.
 
Also as people get their amp points and tier points capped those that drop will enter the market.  So it will become (relatively) easier to get them.
 
Until we have better view of their drop rates any screams of hardship should be tempered with the realization that we are all talking out of our behind.
 
AMP and TIER point is pretty much the Endgame leveling.  How quickly should someone gain a level?  Once a week?  Once a day?  Once a minute?  So instead of complaining about drop rates, it is probably better to state how fast you think you should get amp points.  That way we are talking about concrete numbers and not some subjective "fast, slow, too long" vagueness.
 
Personally I think 1 every 2 weeks or so is a good rate.  Whether the system supports that average or not is yet unknown to me.  For this month I am on schedule, but who knows what next month will bring.	
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Personally I think 1 every 2 weeks or so is a good rate.  Whether the system supports that average or not is yet unknown to me.  For this month I am on schedule, but who knows what next month will bring.
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I think one thing to bear in mind is that some major elements of the core game are a bit messy atm. With regards to the last 2 twitch broadcasts, AP scaling is  borked between classes, and itemization is messy as well. We now know that the stance classes are going to have AP scaling removed from the innate stances and that stat weights on items are going to have to change to compensate for it + get cleaned up in general from where they are now (that's going to take time and a lot of resources). Once that happens, then class/game balancing should be on a much more solid footing. The downside: we're probably looking at drop 4 by the earliest.
 
This is pure speculation on my part, but I'm inclined to believe that they were well aware of this pre launch and that some of the more draconian gating (EG caps, etc) was done in an effort to buy themselves enough time to fix core issues. Personally, until the scaling and itemization changes go through, I'm viewing the game as beta: that is, after the changes are in place I think we'll be able to have a much clearer idea of what the end product will look like. 
 
I could be totally wrong (wouldn't be a first), but given the incoming rebalancing and itemization changes, I don't think you can look at any portion of the game outside of housing without factoring those in.	
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I have heard that. I just don't agree with it. I don't see a bad thing in EG exclusivity considering MMOs are supposed to be very long-term.
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 Carbine stated something, in this case it was that EG were supposed to be a last resort, and they aren't holding true to their statements.
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I think one thing to bear in mind is that some major elements of the core game are a bit messy atm. With regards to the last 2 twitch broadcasts, AP scaling is  borked between classes, and itemization is messy as well. We now know that the stance classes are going to have AP scaling removed from the innate stances and that stat weights on items are going to have to change to compensate for it + get cleaned up in general from where they are now (that's going to take time and a lot of resources). Once that happens, then class/game balancing should be on a much more solid footing. The downside: we're probably looking at drop 4 by the earliest.
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			The way I understand this, the backup / last resort way of getting these, is really the only realisitic way of getting these. Huh?	
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There is nothing wrong with AMP/Ability drop rates. They shouldn't even drop tbh, make them EG exclusive. That way players actually are rewarded for dedication to a class rather than being able to FOTM and buy them.
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The way I understand this, the backup / last resort way of getting these, is really the only realisitic way of getting these. Huh?
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Well I guess I am well behind the supposed curve of attaining these beyond the EP vendor: in between PvP, I have been grinding mobs by the 1000s since release and have never seen one these drop.
 
I currently have 3 amp upgrades and guess where I got them, you guessed it! The EP vendor.
 
So 3 more weeks for my 4th....good stuff.
 
Anyways, these are huge upgrades especially for PvP so those with them all have a MAJOR advantage over people who do not; it's lame.
 
EP should be last resort, not the only one.
 
Oh and btw, last amp expander that was adverted in trade sold for almost a 100 plat...jeez, man.	
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			The drop rate is absurd atm and I think they know that. This is one of the many things that I will be keeping an eye out for in terms of changes. I would be much more satisfied with a 1 in 1000 kills (0.1%) drop rate for them.	
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As a Stalker you get
+18% AP from stance
+12% AP from behind attacks
+30% brutality if live if over 70%
 
how could any other stat be more or equal  valuable that Attack Power/Brutality ?
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They definitely need to up the drop rate on this, by quite a lot, the item developer straight up said elder gems are not supposed to be the primary method for getting amp/ability points, and they are.
 
They very, very much are.	
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			Made a post a bout sa me subject, community manager locked it and redirected me here, he even took time to tell me why he locked it ,funny he redirect me somewhere that doesn't have any answer from them... anyway boost drop rate or there is no alternative way to get em other then eh such take forever	
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So I saw this in the recent patch:
 
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 All dungeon bosses are feeling generous, and will now guarantee a rare AMP drop.
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So I saw this in the recent patch:
 
wondering if this is veteran only or normal dungeons as well...
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So I saw this in the recent patch:
 
wondering if this is veteran only or normal dungeons as well...
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That's just amps like Trigger Fingers and what not. Not the AMP points.
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My dreams...crushed....Why Tankanidis? why?
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Because anyone can play if they have hope.
 
But what if you knew your dreams were crushed and never coming back?
 
Could you still play on?
 
Would you still succeed?
 
 
Hardcore.
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You know, when i said "The devs are going to add more RNG" I was *cupcake*ing joking.
They took it seriously. I've doomed us all!
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You know, when i said "The devs are going to add more RNG" I was *cupcake*ing joking.
They took it seriously. I've doomed us all!
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It would be good if this change in today's patch was a reaction to the scarcity, as it would make some sense. 
 
Majority of player base is probably just hitting dungeons for the first time, and the ability points and amp points dropping off the bosses would go a long way to negate the incredibly low drop rate of most of our levelling careers and subsequent farming. 
 
In this manner, it would be adventures to start learning end game encounters, then dungeons to learn them further whilst slowly but surely giving you character progression up to raiding where after doing the dungeons you should have your majority of points, and single drops off raid bosses would just be given out on a needs basis. 
 
Unfortunately I don't believe the patch notes meant what we think they meant, however I would be very happy to be wrong in this instance.	
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GUILTY!!! WHY YOU DO THESE THINGS!!!!
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Don't suggest removing the EP cap pls.
 
One of the main ways of making money is doing dailies/adventures while being EP capped. Imagine if you would never be EP capped, the rewards from dailies wouldn't be sufficient to fund daily repair costs!	
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Don't suggest removing the EP cap pls.
 
One of the main ways of making money is doing dailies/adventures while being EP capped. Imagine if you would never be EP capped, the rewards from dailies wouldn't be sufficient to fund daily repair costs!
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			I like the EP cap.  I would hate to have to farm every day for 12 hours a day for the next two weeks to get everything I need or be left behind.	
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This is the crux, I mean, I'm not in need of gold, he'll, removing the EG cap would bring prices down as there would be less gold flowing into pockets. 
 
As for farming every day for 2 weeks, it doesn't have to be like that. What I'm saying is, with the combination of adventures, dailies and dungeons, a lot of my elder gems are being converted into gold against my will. 
 
One further option, visit your local Protostar representative to sell your elder gems for money, hence those who need gold instead of gems could sell them. Your elder gems cap is gone, and you can farm gems and sell them for gold instead. Thats what we're doing anyway with 90% of harvested resources anyway. On my server very few things are selling in the exchange for more than vendor rates.	
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			My third char hit 50 today still no amp or skillpoint drop in sight.	
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I like the EP cap.  I would hate to have to farm every day for 12 hours a day for the next two weeks to get everything I need or be left behind.
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			Could call it 500 as a cap, or 400, so you could get enough to get one point a week? Given that they're going to be constantly adding new zones / dailies, and the same cap, we'll be spending most of our time farming gold, which leads to inflation.	
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			I feel that AMP and Ability point tier unlocks should have been 140-200 points, being 1-1.5 weeks per point (Meaning 14-18 weeks to finish your character off there).The current 2.5-3 weeks is actually obscene, especially since this sold as a "backup" mechanic for if you were unlucky (more like NORMAL rather than unlucky...).But then again, Carbine LOVES their long, arbitrary, boring time-gates. Attunement? 12 shitty world bosses, and these pointless side quests. Managed to finish GA? 300 partial primal patterns each before you can get to Datascape (was 100, now 300!), thats 12000, which at current prices is 1200 plat (lol). Nice pants from Northern Wastes vendor, but thats about 32 days of dailies for it.Thing is, AMP and Ability points are the only sure upgrade. Everything else is dependent on the crappy random rune rolls.. 	
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 Nice pants from Northern Wastes vendor, but thats about 32 days of dailies for it.
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Long ass grinds of daily zones has been a thing in MMOs for several years. Y so surprised.
 
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Do want to note that a guild group got an AMP point drop in STL Vet today, so they do indeed exist! /shock.
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Don't suggest removing the EP cap pls.
 
One of the main ways of making money is doing dailies/adventures while being EP capped. Imagine if you would never be EP capped, the rewards from dailies wouldn't be sufficient to fund daily repair costs!
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 usually dev  have the  courtesy to keep the   essential stuff to a  small fractions of the total grind, and tucking a  few really swank things at the end
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Chua not found any self, but heard Human finding them as world drop in daily zones.
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 usually dev  have the  courtesy to keep the   essential stuff to a  small fractions of the total grind, and tucking a  few really swank things at the end
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			The cap on Elder Gems is pretty large (2000 + a week). The cap on Elder Gems you can gain through Elder Points is what is low. They've already stated they intend to add more ways to make Elder gems beyond the current methods. No need to raise the elder point weekly cap; and 2000+ is a fine cap for weekly elder gems under the assumption that a few other methods will pop up to get them (drops, quests, challenges, etc that directly award EG, not EP). 	
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Someone needs to f****** ban you already. So tired of the glowy fanboism I'm almost starting to think you actually work at Carbine.
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The cap on Elder Gems is pretty large (2000 + a week). The cap on Elder Gems you can gain through Elder Points is what is low. They've already stated they intend to add more ways to make Elder gems beyond the current methods. No need to raise the elder point weekly cap; and 2000+ is a fine cap for weekly elder gems under the assumption that a few other methods will pop up to get them (drops, quests, challenges, etc that directly award EG, not EP). 
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There is nothing wrong with AMP/Ability drop rates. They shouldn't even drop tbh, make them EG exclusive. That way players actually are rewarded for dedication to a class rather than being able to FOTM and buy them.
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I got one from a PvP bag the other day. Time to capitalize before they fix the drop rates.
 
 
Level 19, BTW. A level 19 bag.
 
 "Does that seem right to you?"	
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Problem is that those pvp bags seem to be the only way to get them at present other than elder gems. Perhaps if they significantly boosted the rate they drop from daily quest bags. Like the index of interesting items. Either way, we're not seeing mob drops as the primary source and whilst this thread has suggestions, anything would be good to improve it as a year of weekly cap is just pure pain. We should have our amp points and ability points capped by the time we start raiding. 
 
Either that, or in the extreme, just get rid of these extras and drop the cost of tier 2 and 3 amp points to 3 and 5. No idea what you'd do with ability points, make tier 4 and 8 cost 3 and 6?	
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Someone needs to f****** ban you already. So tired of the glowy fanboism I'm almost starting to think you actually work at Carbine.
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I got one from a PvP bag the other day. Time to capitalize before they fix the drop rates.
 
 
Level 19, BTW. A level 19 bag.
 
 "Does that seem right to you?"
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