Report 371

Report #371
Skillset: Tracking Skill: Pit
 Org: Ur'Guard Status: Completed May 2010
Furies' Decision:
Solution 1
Problem: In it's current state, pits are allowing to much advantage in groups
and even solo fighting with how easy it is to take out targetted individuals and
keep them pitted throughout an entire fight, or in many cases, refalling into
the same pit over and over.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Make it so you are not able to reconceal a pit while
 someone is in it
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Make is so forced movement does not trigger traps
 from firing (Fearaura, gust, mountkick, tackle,
 charge, barge, demense effects that move, etc)
Player Comments:
---[Xenthos on 5/1 @ 00:38 writes]:
#2 just isn't going to fly IMO. #1 on the other hand makes sense: It should be
hard to hide a pit when someone is -OBVIOUSLY- in it (it even shows on Look, so
you'd think that would be an indication of pit-i-ness).
---[Ethelon on 5/1 @ 22:57 writes]:
Yeah, it would be harder to go with #2, as then a tracker is very limited in how
they get people in their pits. The main issue we have seen is fearaura in use
with pits, where it literally keeps you pitted with under a second to respond
before you hit the pit again.
---[Viynain on 5/2 @ 02:57 writes]:
The second solution would severely hamper whatever singular potential Trackers
would have in the use of their traps in an offensive situation, so no thanks for
that. Solution one is understandable.
---[Ilaveuse on 5/2 @ 20:08 writes]:
Yes to #1, no to #2. For the reasons stated above. (Particularly Xenthos', that
made me chuckle.) Especially not being able to tackle into a pit would make
things very challenging. And while pits may be powerful, tracking as a whole is
a bit on the lackluster side, so in the wider context, let's avoid that hit to
the usefulness. #1 makes more sense anyway.
---[Inagin on 5/3 @ 02:30 writes]:
Solution #1's objective is to make it so multiple people can't fall into the
same pit. If that's the case, we can keep reconcealing as it is. Just make it so
that people can't fall into pits with someone already inside.
---[Inagin on 5/3 @ 17:16 writes]:
There are two reasons for my suggested change to Solution #1. First, the timing
would be tedious if it required the tracker to wait until the victim climbs out.
Second, if the target is shrouded, the tracker would not be able to see when
their target successfully climb up.
---[Ruiku on 5/6 @ 21:51 writes]:
Another solution that was mentioned was pit immunity upon exiting a pit, much
similar to stun immunity with perhaps a slight variation in time.
---[Ilaveuse on 5/6 @ 23:45 writes]:
I like solution 1 better than that suggestion from a flavor standpoint,
mostly... if I've recently fallen in a pit and would otherwise be dumb enough to
fall in it again, it doesn't make much sense to simply glide over the top.
---[Inagin on 5/7 @ 15:37 writes]:
Actually, now I am starting to wonder if such a change is even warranted.
Tracking is terrible as it is, especially with the recent nerf to pits
(RockClimbing). I have also noticed that the envoy that submitted this report
was a longtime Tracker who has switched classes right after.
---[Kalin on 5/7 @ 17:30 writes]:
I agree with the not being able to reconceal while someone is still in the pit.
It makes no sense at all and the ease with which pits can be used indefinately
(meaning till someone of a higher skill level removed the pit which can be
problematic in itself to find) more than makes up for the loss in concealing
while someone is in the pit.
---[Incabulos on 5/7 @ 21:07 writes]:
Agreed with number 1, someone in a pit should make it non-concealable, since
they're trying to get out and stuff, you'd just see/hear it.
---[Kalin on 5/16 @ 06:05 writes]:
I personally feel that this fix while a start is not near enough of a fix to
pittrap. With the current use of pittrap as seen over the last few months this
fix merely means the reconceal happens after the person climbs out, and in
effect solves nothing. I would like to see something more substantial such as,
pittrap has a limited amount of times it can be used, or most (if not all)
forced movement will not set off the trap.
---[Fillin on 5/18 @ 06:52 writes]:
I highly disagree with Inagin's claim that 'tracking is terrible'. Pits remain
one of the lamest things in Lusternian combat, even with rockclimbing. Both of
the above solutions are good ideas, particularly solution 2. Another good idea I
picked up from a prominent tracker is to make pits not allow you to target the
pitted person, but they take you out of combat for longer. For example, the time
to climb out could be raised from 6 to 12 seconds, or you could be required to
SCALE PIT several times to get out, taking a few seconds balance each time.
That, or make it so you have to JUMP INTO PIT to attack the person inside, and
only allow 1 other person into the pit.
---[Inagin on 5/19 @ 06:32 writes]:
Pits may be lame, yes. Tracking is not terrible? You have to be kidding.
Fillin's idea is actually fine if pits were changed that way too. However, I
would feel that Tracking would need something else as it is very lacking
(currently it's all pits, pits, pits, and an occasional springtrap). Please
compare Hunting/Tracking to Totems or Rituals and their specializations.
---[Sahmiam on 5/20 @ 05:07 writes]:
While I do think there is some legitimacy in stating that tracking may be
"terrible," that argument is in no way a justification for not fixing an
imbalanced skill. The quality of a skillset is less important than fixing
combat, and indeed, it's not like we as envoys can't submit other changes to
improve tracking. Fixing pits is a good thing, just as addressing other skills
would be a boon. I support solution 2 of the two provided, but I wouldn't mind
pursing Fillin's idea of forcing the pitted person out of combat longer with
that person being untargetable.
---[Kalin on 5/21 @ 05:23 writes]:
Fillin's idea is certainly a neat idea. I would support this too.
---[Inagin on 5/21 @ 06:29 writes]:
Eh, I can agree on the "lame" comment but not so much on the "imbalanced skill".
All organizations have trackers if you're talking about group combat. If you're
talking about 1v1, I think the tracker is actually at a disadvantage (versus
having a totems or ritual spec), even if the target falls into the pit more than
once.
---[Fillin on 5/21 @ 06:53 writes]:
Imo, tracking only needs tweaks to one or two skills in order to be solid,
bloodthirst in particular. With poisonexpert and the companion (though it still
dies too easily), tracking is a pretty nice offensive spec. Anyway, I know the
admin generally like to take baby steps, but if they hate pits as much as
everyone else does, another thing to consider, in addition to one of the
previously mentioned solutions, would be to greatly increase the balance time it
takes to lay a pit. For a trap that you can re-use an indefinate amount of
times, you can lay them ridiculously fast. That, or make them one-shot traps
like all the others.