Report 130

Report #130
Skillset: Stealth Skill: Screen
 Org: Nekotai Status: Rejected Feb 2009
Furies' Decision:
We do not believe this to be necessary.
Problem: Screen is fairly high-up in Stealth and continues to be one of the
least useful guild abilities in the game. A defense which serves only the
purpose of protecting one from Appraise and Snoop is highly useless in
Lusternia. Seriously, consider how often Appraise is used in Lusternia for any
purpose beyond occasionally testing novices.
Solution #1: Change Screen to a 3-5p ability that removes the user from all
 enemy lists of people on the same plane. This would help to
 streamline Stealth towards a more sneaking-around-the-landscape
 purpose, and the ability would finally see some usage beyond that
 of Expanding Defense List Ability. Essentially a Gloomtide for
 the self.
Solution #2: 3-4 power ability that imitates Deepcover for personal enemies.
 So if Ashteru has Synl enemied (so his traps will hit Synl) and
 if Synl puts on a mask of Xenthos (who Ashteru has not enemied),
 then Synl will not be hit by traps. Similarly, if Xenthos was
 enemied and Synl was not, then Synl (masked as Xenthos) will now
 be hit.
Solution #3: Something else useful for Screen. PLEASE note that while my
 solutions may not be fitting, Screen really is as useless as
 abilities come. Sure, not quite as bad as pre-change
 Weathersight, but hey, you get the idea.
Player Comments:
---[Ethelon on 2/8 @ 06:03 writes]:
Solution 1 seems more fitting for Screen and closer to what it was proposed to
be like in the beginning
---[Nydekion on 2/12 @ 10:25 writes]:
Should probably add the restriction that this ability would be stripped if the
user takes any aggressive action or is targetted by any direct damage as the
main thrust seems to be able to sneak up to the offending group/mage and not to
entirely avoid all effects that require personal enemy status.
---[Synl on 2/12 @ 19:28 writes]:
Well, in either case, I don't think it would make much of a difference, as the
power cost would prevent whoring. Still, I agree that if the user is targetted
by direct damage, the abilities drop (no to aggressive actions as things like
Infiltrate are considered aggressive for some reason.)
---[Nydekion on 2/13 @ 05:31 writes]:
Dropping on aggressive action is pretty vital, otherwise this ends up being a
love-potion type effect that a demesne holder cannot reject and which the
stealth user can be set up beforehand. In addition, for the proposed power cost
(3p), it would take a maximum of 24 seconds to recover power which would mean it
would need to either only last 10-12 seconds to prevent whoring or have it cost
5p (if the ability lasts 30 seconds) or 10p (if the ability lasts 60 seconds),
otherwise you really can just use it over and over with only a second or so
worth of interruption.
---[Synl on 2/13 @ 06:39 writes]:
As I said, I agree to it dropping on being targetted by damage - how is this
anything like love potion if you can simply point cudgel/staff? Still see no
need to have it drop on aggro actions, as direct damage will occur in pretty
much every situation where aggro-dropping would be relevant.
---[Nydekion on 2/13 @ 16:58 writes]:
Having it drop on aggressive action is a necessity and would still make the
proposed suggestion for this skill very powerful, particularly in conjunction
with traps. A stealth user should not be able to walk through and attack others
and/or attack denizens (this is particularly true when used in conjunction with
masquerade/veil) with no worry about passive effects at all. I can see allowing
quick movement through a demesne to or away from a target, but once there its
effectiveness should end. The skillset is based around subterfuge not immunity.
---[Nydekion on 2/13 @ 17:13 writes]:
In fact, having it avoid passive abilities entirely already has -huge-
application during village revolts, even if it did drop on aggressive
action/direct damage as it would allow the stealth user to move at full speed
through an enemy demesne/traps to influence denizens unhindered (as
influencing/debating is entirely non-aggressive), tack of masquerade and the
stealth user is nearly untouchable for the period the combination of skills are
active unless others are targeting the stealth user explicitly...and even then
it hinders any attempt to pin you a stealth user with this ability active
greatly. That being said, using this ability should probably be considered
aggressive.
---[Synl on 2/14 @ 01:41 writes]:
As your comment seems focused on use during a group situation (revolts, raids,
etc.) where a demesne must be held, do remember that Stealth users can already
do this - Gloomtide in Night allows all Coven members to be removed from all
enemy lists. Furthermore, most of your comments are baseless - when I take an
aggressive action, if the target notices me, they can simply ENEMY me. In the
case of the second solution, the only passive effect it would allow one to
bypass is Demesne Watch which, as you said, allows Stealth to be a method of
subterfuge and nothing else.
---[Sarrasri on 2/14 @ 01:50 writes]:
Since you mentioned it, the one suggestion is just a copy of the Night skill
Gloomtide with a power cost instead of a coven cost. From what I remember, copy
skills aren't looked at too favourably.
---[Shuyin on 2/14 @ 07:24 writes]:
Unsure about the copy skill aspect being accepted, but the expanded powercost
makes it a bit more acceptable
---[Xiel on 2/15 @ 02:59 writes]:
I've already noted my thoughts on this matter from past discussions we've had
about the skill. Essentially copying Gloomtide is something I'm not favourable
for, nor would be something I would support. Solution two is a little more
palatable, but solution one just doesn
---[Xiel on 2/15 @ 03:00 writes]:
Ahem. I can type. Just to end my botched comment above, no thank you on solution
one.
---[Romero on 2/17 @ 11:25 writes]:
I actually like solution 1 and gives a real feel of stealth as the person sneaks
past demense watch or other enemy abilities. And yes the thought concerns me
that the person would just use it on prime and drop all enemy status for fun,
but then again, how hard is it to re-enemy the person making that power cost
worth it. And its only stealth users, how many monks do you know who would rush
your demense with this.
---[Synl on 2/19 @ 00:51 writes]:
Solution 2 3-4 power ability that imitates Deepcover for personal enemies. So if
Ashteru has Synl enemied (so his traps will hit Synl) and if Synl puts on a mask
of Xenthos (who Ashteru has not enemied), then Synl will not be hit by traps.
Similarly, if Xenthos was enemied and Synl was not, then Synl (masked as
Xenthos) will now be hit.
---[Synl on 2/19 @ 00:52 writes]:
Pah. BIG NOTE HERE: My comment above is supposed to be solution #2 for this
report... I just totally messed up on the syntax before finalizing. :(
---[Xenthos on 2/21 @ 19:00 writes]:
I think I like that solution better than solution 1. Less of a Gloomtide clone,
more of a unique skill to Stealth, and isn't immunity. At the same time, it may
start hitting one of your teammates if someone's wearing their mask and you have
to enemy them. Adds a bit more strategy to the whole thing (in terms of which
mask to choose and when), as well as trying to make sure your allies keep up
protection scrolls if you're holding a demesne. Question: What would happen
with other things such as Shrine powers / Order enemies?
---[Synl on 2/21 @ 19:04 writes]:
Order enemies are dependant on an org (the order) and are thus covered by
Deepcover, not this. This would be an alternative to Deepcover, essentially,
that covers personal enemy lists instead of org enemy lists.
---[Sadhyra on 2/28 @ 20:08 writes]:
Solution 2 looks nifty, with a bit of thought required in its use
---[Ceren on 2/28 @ 20:44 writes]:
I think evade already goes through demesne watch, so 1 seems a little redundant.
2 looks interesting.