120916-welp-thought-id-like-it

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== Content ==
			This game is made for a VERY select few, mainly close-nit guilds that want to challenge theirselves. This game is extremely too hard and frustrating, questing was fun for a while, but a level 20 dungeon should not be so frustrating(if you for some miracle find a group for low level content) I have nothing but a headache from playing this game. Also this game should lean towards casual players more, you need a lot casuals for a massive player base, all your doing is catering to these hardcore guilds, that complain about everything and leave, come back later when you obey them and leave again. Anyways /endsubscription. Make an enjoyable game, I wanted to play a game not die form high blood pressure doing it	
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Sorry it's not for you. /wave
 
Good luck in your future MMO endeavors.	
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			I would suggest coming back for Drop 4, as it will address the issue you have with dungeons. It's not so easy your first time in a PUG here, understandable, and if you weren't here for the launch period, there's not much 'forgiveness' for not knowing your stuff. Game should cater to the casual masses, agreed. Anyways...drop 4 will bring in a training dungeon, that will teach players the basics of what to do in dungeon instances and go over the basics; ie. what interrupt armor is, and how to interrupt spells. Sucks to hear your time hear was not enjoyable, the game is definitely getting more and more accessible as time goes by, ask people who have been here since launch. Many things have become easier to obtain and join. Come back in the future if Carbine ever sends you an e-mail with a 7 day guest pass. They have done this in the past, I'm sure they will do this again. Just to check it out.	
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I have suggested many times for carbine to make content easier, especially for the pre veteran leveling dungeons but... I'm quite sure carbine would rather lose all their jobs and be homeless over giving average or casual players a chance at this game.
 
You think it's hard now, you should have been here day 1. There's a reason why it started with 400k+ subs and now you'd be lucky to find more than 2 people in any given zone
 
With that said, I'd recommend sticking to solo leveling content until drop 4 which addresses some of your issues. Really shame to see you go so earlier cause Wildstar is hands down the best mmo out there	
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			There is definitely an adjustment period once you hit 20. However it gets better as you get adjusted to it and once you do it is very rewarding.	
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I would suggest coming back for Drop 4, as it will address the issue you have with dungeons. It's not so easy your first time in a PUG here, understandable, and if you weren't here for the launch period, there's not much 'forgiveness' for not knowing your stuff. Game should cater to the casual masses, agreed. Anyways...drop 4 will bring in a training dungeon, that will teach players the basics of what to do in dungeon instances and go over the basics; ie. what interrupt armor is, and how to interrupt spells. Sucks to hear your time hear was not enjoyable, the game is definitely getting more and more accessible as time goes by, ask people who have been here since launch. Many things have become easier to obtain and join. Come back in the future if Carbine ever sends you an e-mail with a 7 day guest pass. They have done this in the past, I'm sure they will do this again. Just to check it out.
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Sorry it's not for you. /wave
 
Good luck in your future MMO endeavors.
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Please stop trolling this way.
These kinds of comments damage the game.
 
OPs arguments are seriously true. Let's discuss how to deal with them.
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I have suggested many times for carbine to make content easier, especially for the pre veteran leveling dungeons but
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Please stop trolling this way.
These kinds of comments damage the game.
 
OPs arguments are seriously true. Let's discuss how to deal with them.
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			Wildstar is not good because of its difficulty. Wildstar is good in spite of its difficulty because of the combat, graphics, animations, LAS and amp systems and housing	
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I have suggested many times for carbine to make content easier, especially for the pre veteran leveling dungeons but... I'm quite sure carbine would rather lose all their jobs and be homeless over giving average or casual players a chance at this game.
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Wildstar is not good because of its difficulty. Wildstar is good in spite of its difficulty because of the combat, graphics, animations, LAS and amp systems and housing
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I remember playing my first STL on normal mode, i must have wiped about 20 times in total! That was so much fun :D i love being challenged and the feeling of finally overcoming said challenge made me fall in love with this game!
I can understand that it might be frustrating for some, however i do believe there's plenty of people who like to be challenged instead of just bulldozing through content as if we're in an origami exposition ;)
 
The new Protostar Training instance should fix a lot of the entry level confusion aswell so props to that! I believe with Drop 4 we will see a lot of new and fresh dungeon experiences (both normal and veteran)	
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			Speaking as a newbie, I don't think the game is hard at all.Probably exaggerated by review videos which 'prepared' myself, so the actual gameplay was quite smooth for me.	
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     I think the difficulty can be greatly affected by the pug you get on that first try.  If the others in the group are having a hard time than it can be very frustrating.  I watched some video on STL and gave it a shot at level 25 I think on my engineer.  We went through the first boss with only 2 wipes but the the next boss killed us over and over.  The group broke up after that.
 
     I have yet to get into another STL.  I tried requeing, but by that time gues were lasting over 3 hours for me.  Eventually I put the game on hold and tried other things.
 
     I played WoW back during the time it was considered a neopolitan variety ice cream in which the chocolate and strawberry were already eaten. ( YAY!  I avoided saying I played during vanilla wow.....D'oh! )  Back then the dungeon runs always had one person marking mobs 'skull, X and moon'  First target, next target and the mob to sheep or CC in some way.  The runs took alot more coordination and communication and lasted alot longer.  That communication and coordination were what made the place fun and engaging.
 
     During Mist Of Panderia you almost never have to talk to someone in the instance and the runs can be as short as 15 minutes.  At the end people collected loot and dropped group and vanished.
 
     There is a difference between beating your head against a brick wall and being able to put a toon on follow and get loot afterwards.  I think Carbine could tone down the difficulty just a bit on the group but make the effort of the indivisual more important when giving out rewards. 
 
     For example;  Make the boss a little more easy but give a few bonus points on loot rolls when the boss it killed when players follow the mechanics.  Interupt at the right time?  Get a +5 when the loot rolls after the boss dies.  Avoided that red telegraph?  Get another +5 on the roll.  And so on.
 
     I think the great many players that hated the ease of the WoW instances, weren't really looking for more of a face beating by the boss at the lower levels.  They wanted a more engaging playstyle.  If you want to beat your head against a wall, well that's what raids are for. 
 
     Communication, coordination, engagment = fun	
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WildStar is the one game that made me drastically change the way I play MMOs (in a good way).
 
Having played WoW, Rift and a few other F2P titles, I've always used 1-5, alt 1-5, ctrl 1-5, etc and QWES.
Omg.... Did I ever suck at WildStar at first. I bought a Naga Hex and learned to play WASD. What a HUGE difference. For such a high mobility game, it made everything much easier, and even improved my gameplay in other games.
 
Even now.. WildStar's combat even kind of ruins other games.. Not being able to sprint, dodge or double jump... It's just depressing lol
 
As Trident mentioned, there will be a new dungeon (level 10 I think?) "Protostar Academy" that will serve as tutorial and practice for what's ahead: explaining the interrupt armor mechanics and the likes.
 
There will also be a new level 6 shiphand "Fragment Zero" including max level versions of all the current shiphands =  more "casual" content!
I think with practice, getting the hang of telegraphs and learning how the game works as a whole, I think you'd really start enjoying it! Then again... This game isn't for everyone.
 
Hope to see you around, otherwise, I'm wishing you the best in finding a game that fits your playstyle better. 	
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It's sad when you think this game isn't for casuals.
As I lead a really casual guild where real life comes first.. where if someone has to go during a raid..I might sigh, but I do understand and they can go.
 You should check out my stream [The Casual Chronicles] on twitch (also in my signature) and see how fun the game can be for casuals. But, saying that I do wish you the best. :( Sad to see another casual go.	
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I could be wrong, but aren't the introducing things in drop for to help new players - practice dungeons and the like?
 
Edit: oops sorry nifty already mentioned it	
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Oh come on- this isn't about Carvine being elitist- it's about making a fun game. Loads of casual players have a blast at this game. I do. My wife does.
 
 
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Am I also right in say (i apologise if wrong) that Carbine totally miss-judged who would play WS. They aimed for hardcore, but infact got a load more casual players?
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I don't think they intended the game to be hardcore. They intended raids to be hardcore, but I think they were trying to make something for everyone. The level 20
Instances really aren't that hard if one player knows what he or she is doing and can explain to everyone else what to do.
 
I do agree that the queue times are a killer for lower level instances. Waiting three hours for something to pop is horrible and will drive players away. I hope they can find ways to generate interest in lower level instances without nerfing the content.
 
I've sometimes queued as tank with my level 50 warrior for level 20 instances just to help people out. I'd even do it one slinger as DPS, but because of the way the scaling down works, my slinger trivializes the content so it's not very fun to do.
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The problem with low level content and queues is, that
- there are too less people constantly joining the game from new and too less creating twinks, so that the amount of low leveling players is too small for getting quick responses on lfg.
- most of the established players are only interested in L50 content, understandable.
 
So new players don't easily find teammates and must quickly climb up toL50, to find them. But within this process they have to quest allone - boring - and sometimes not easy. And when they try to run the dungeons, they get frustrated, not finding a group, and when they finally accomplished that, the group often has too less experience, so that dungeons seem to be incredible difficult.
And not to forget, the combat system and mobs are more challenging for many "oldschool" players, makes questing more difficult.
That's a bad queue of negative experiences, many have to undergo.
 
There's no easy solution:
Larger population
More attraction for high levelers to join low level content
Better training for new players
Better support for newbies by established players/guilds.
Easy ingame functions to quickjly find guilds.	
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I'll also admit that while I ran STL a million times on my warrior while leveling, I didn't touch the adventures (except for Hycrest) or SC. The reason is that the adventures grant terrible xp, so while I enjoyed WOTW, it just wasn't worth it to do. By the time I hit SC, I'd forgotten my tanking spec and the queues took too long to pop anyway. Which is a shame because it's a great instance.
 
If I could have, I'd have leveled entirely by dungeons, but that really wasn't an option because the XP is so terrible.
 
There area couple of things I wish for in this game (probably unrealistic):
-That either KV or STL was tuned for level 28 and SSM 40 so you could level Hycrest->STL->KV->SC->SSM
-That running dungeons gave enough XP to level without doing quests
-That scaling down worked better for DPS so DPS couldn't overwhelm the lower level instances
-That there was some benefit to scaling down a 50 to do level 20 content. For instance, if you could get elder gems faster than dailies if you could queue for lowbie dungeon (for this to work, scaling down would have to work better).I realize I might be alone in wanting this, but I just wish the game made it easier to engage with newer players to help them fall in love with the game the way I did.	
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Hard content is what makes wildstar, wildstar.
 
If you want another generic MMO with easy accesable content there are almost hundreds you can choose and pick from.	
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Hard content is what makes wildstar, wildstar.
 
If you want another generic MMO with easy accesable content there are almost hundreds you can choose and pick from.
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A select few? What the heck? This isn't freaking Dark Souls. If you can beat Super Mario Bros of Legend of Zelda, you can do just fine in Wildstar.You're supposed to start with Adventures before dungeons anyway, you're doing it out of order. You might have better luck if you try shiphands and adventures before trying to beat a dungeon.
 
If Wildstar were so easy a person who had never touched a mouse and keyboard before can just faceroll through all the content, it'd be a long dead game by now, never would have made it past beta. It's not a 'hard game', it's just not some mega-casual mobile game like angry birds or hearthstone or whatever. You're not supposed to be able to play Wildstar on the toilet while eating a sandwich. It's supposed to be engaging, not mind-numbing.There's a reason why engaging, challenging games like, idunno, Chess, are still played and loved today, while cheap casual mobile games are forgotten in less than a year.	
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A select few? What the heck? This isn't freaking Dark Souls. If you can beat Super Mario Bros of Legend of Zelda, you can do just fine in Wildstar.
 
You're supposed to start with Adventures before dungeons anyway, you're doing it out of order. You might have better luck if you try shiphands and adventures before trying to beat a dungeon.
 
If Wildstar were so easy a person who had never touched a mouse and keyboard before can just faceroll through all the content, it'd be a long dead game by now, never would have made it past beta. It's not a 'hard game', it's just not some mega-casual mobile game like angry birds or hearthstone or whatever. You're not supposed to be able to play Wildstar on the toilet while eating a sandwich.
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But......
 
 
 
*puts the sandwich away*
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There's no easy solution:
Larger population
More attraction for high levelers to join low level content
Better training for new players
Better support for newbies by established players/guilds.
Easy ingame functions to quickjly find guilds.
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This game is made for a VERY select few, mainly close-nit guilds that want to challenge theirselves. This game is extremely too hard and frustrating, questing was fun for a while, but a level 20 dungeon should not be so frustrating(if you for some miracle find a group for low level content) I have nothing but a headache from playing this game. Also this game should lean towards casual players more, you need a lot casuals for a massive player base, all your doing is catering to these hardcore guilds, that complain about everything and leave, come back later when you obey them and leave again. Anyways /endsubscription. Make an enjoyable game, I wanted to play a game not die form high blood pressure doing it
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But......
 
 
 
*puts the sandwich away*
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A select few? What the heck? This isn't freaking Dark Souls. If you can beat Super Mario Bros of Legend of Zelda, you can do just fine in Wildstar.
 
You're supposed to start with Adventures before dungeons anyway, you're doing it out of order. You might have better luck if you try shiphands and adventures before trying to beat a dungeon.
 
If Wildstar were so easy a person who had never touched a mouse and keyboard before can just faceroll through all the content, it'd be a long dead game by now, never would have made it past beta. It's not a 'hard game', it's just not some mega-casual mobile game like angry birds or hearthstone or whatever. You're not supposed to be able to play Wildstar on the toilet while eating a sandwich. It's supposed to be engaging, not mind-numbing.
 
There's a reason why engaging, challenging games like, idunno, Chess, are still played and loved today, while cheap casual mobile games are forgotten in less than a year.
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I've done Void and another Adventure, more than once, I've done a shipshands, so by level 30 I am not allowed to do a (level 20)dungeon? The first dungeon of a game should not be immensly frustrating, ok so they want the game to be challenging, cool but lowbie content shouldnt be like this.
 
 
I guess I should have said, they should cater to solo players more, rather than to hardcore 40 player guilds.
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I've done Void and another Adventure, more than once, I've done a shipshands, so by level 30 I am not allowed to do a (level 20)dungeon? The first dungeon of a game should not be immensly frustrating, ok so they want the game to be challenging, cool but lowbie content shouldnt be like this.
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Is it?  We ran a STL with a bunch of at-level new characters, myself and one other veteran.  We managed to get through STL just fine.  Did the same thing with Kel Voreth and, despite a few people having to learn to strafe to dodge the forgemaster's bullethell phase, we cleared that as well.  Normal dungeons aren't that hard.  Certainly, if someone wants the ceiling for the entire game to never be below that level of difficulty, I wouldn't agree with them.  The first dungeons should be difficult, especially if you aren't learning that you can't just hold still and mindlessly key a rotation, but normal dungeons are tuned correctly.
 
 
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I certainly like the difficulty of Wildstar, and enjoyed my first experiences wiping in dungeons, but I disagree that the level 20 dungeons are tuned correctly for new players.  The biggest problem with the level 20 dungeons is that the game does not properly explain key mechanics like interrupt armor and Moments of Opportunity.  Sure players can figure it out or do research (as I did), but you really don't want the masses to have to do that for core game mechanics.  
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I certainly like the difficulty of Wildstar, and enjoyed my first experiences wiping in dungeons, but I disagree that the level 20 dungeons are tuned correctly for new players.  The biggest problem with the level 20 dungeons is that the game does not properly explain key mechanics like interrupt armor and Moments of Opportunity.  Sure players can figure it out or do research (as I did), but you really don't want the masses to have to do that for core game mechanics.  
 
The level 20 dungeons are like dropping someone into Portal half-way through.  Sure, they could probably figure out the portal gun and the switches fairly easily, but they wouldn't know about conservation of momentum, surfaces that can have portals, and the balls of energy activating switches, which makes the game a more difficult and frustrating experience.  If a veteran player is there and willing to teach it becomes a lot easier.
 
Further, many classes are underpowered until they can get certain abilities and certain tier 4 bonuses, for example only Engineer tanks get their intimidates by 20.  I know healing on a Medic entirely changes at 24 when you get Shield Surge.  The combination of a knowledge gap and some low level class imbalance makes the dungeons more difficult than they should be.  I certainly think they are doing the right thing with trying to fix some of the knowledge gap with the new dungeon, instead of nerfing the dungeons, but I understand how the early dungeons can be frustrating.
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I do think the first dungeons are tuned correctly, but if this helps, then hopefully that fixes it instead of having to retune dungeons.
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I've done Void and another Adventure, more than once, I've done a shipshands, so by level 30 I am not allowed to do a (level 20)dungeon? The first dungeon of a game should not be immensly frustrating, ok so they want the game to be challenging, cool but lowbie content shouldnt be like this.
 
 
I guess I should have said, they should cater to solo players more, rather than to hardcore 40 player guilds.
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			There is no point in argueing with people here, because you are the people subbed and allowed to post. There is a reason this game is a Ghost Town, many reasons not just the difficulty but that being a major factor.	
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There is no point in argueing with people here, because you are the people subbed and allowed to post. There is a reason this game is a Ghost Town, many reasons not just the difficulty but that being a major factor.
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There is no point in argueing with people here, because you are the people subbed and allowed to post. There is a reason this game is a Ghost Town, many reasons not just the difficulty but that being a major factor.
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Still, my wife hasn't played nearly as many games, and she managed to heal through an STL just having the fights explained.  I don't think it's THAT hard.
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I actually had tutorials on throughout, so I knew a lot moving forward.  Maybe that's why I never had an issue with them.  Also, I've played a lot of MMORPGs, action games, and my first run in STL I had the fights explained to me in quick snippets.
 
Maybe if none of those were true, I'd have a problem.  Still, my wife hasn't played nearly as many games, and she managed to heal through an STL just having the fights explained.  I don't think it's THAT hard.
 
 
 
I do think the first dungeons are tuned correctly, but if this helps, then hopefully that fixes it instead of having to retune dungeons.
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Good for them :)  (and I mean that sincerely)
 
Question: Were they within shouting distance of you when it happened?  Pretty sure Vic's character tanks, Jeff were you tanking too?  Good voice comms, especially between the tank and the healer does a lot to mitigate the difficulty of the dungeons especially if you guys had run them before. 
 
Put yourselves in the shoes of people with varying skill levels and only chat for comms.  There's no guarantee that everybody in the instance has current gear or even knows their appropriate stats.  It doesn't take much to turn those dungeons into a wipefest.  I SWAG that more than half ran screaming from instanced content and ultimately the game. 
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Good for them :)  (and I mean that sincerely)
 
Question: Were they within shouting distance of you when it happened?  Pretty sure Vic's character tanks, Jeff were you tanking too?  Good voice comms, especially between the tank and the healer does a lot to mitigate the difficulty of the dungeons especially if you guys had run them before. 
 
Put yourselves in the shoes of people with varying skill levels and only chat for comms.  There's no guarantee that everybody in the instance has current gear or even knows their appropriate stats.  It doesn't take much to turn those dungeons into a wipefest.  I SWAG that more than half ran screaming from instanced content and ultimately the game. 
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			I don't mind a challenge but that should be towards endgame, a level 20 dungeon should be 'the training', they shouldn't have to add some "academy training". As somene said above 4 hours to do a level 20 dungeon, really? I like playing MMO's but I have real life job, 4 hours to complete a lowbie dungeon is a job it self and a joke, lets save that kinda diffuclty for world bosses etc.	
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I can't comment on what was in the tutorials, in beta mine stopped showing up and of course at launch I disabled them.  Further, I am sure many people disabled the tutorials after seeing a tutorial on WASD and other basic things, but then missed out on explanations of more Wildstar specific mechanics.  Random LFD groups don't always have someone willing/able to explain the fights.  Your first time and your wife's first time you had an experienced player present, and even 1 experienced player can change the outcome of a low-level dungeon group.  Simply having someone say "interrupt X" can greatly reduce the difficulty of an encounter.  But, most experienced players are no longer running low-level dungeons, especially not in LFD, because the rewards, both in XP and gear, are bad.    So you get a long queue time and get grouped with people who don't know what they are doing and fail repeatedly and you are going to dislike the game.  
 
I certainly think they are moving in the right direction, but the current reality is a potentially bad experience for new players.  Reducing the knowledge gap will help, but, as others have said, they also need to adjust the baseline rewards so it is attractive for experienced players to run dungeons while leveling alts. 
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I don't mind a challenge but that should be towards endgame, a level 20 dungeon should be 'the training', they shouldn't have to add some "academy training". As somene said above 4 hours to do a level 20 dungeon, really? I like playing MMO's but I have real life job, 4 hours to complete a lowbie dungeon is a job it self and a joke, lets save that kinda diffuclty for world bosses etc.
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If all you need is one good player telling you what to do and suddenly everything is fine, that seems to be a great argument that the dungeons are tuned correctly, players just formed bad habits we tend to support.
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I don't mind a challenge but that should be towards endgame, a level 20 dungeon should be 'the training', they shouldn't have to add some "academy training". As somene said above 4 hours to do a level 20 dungeon, really? I like playing MMO's but I have real life job, 4 hours to complete a lowbie dungeon is a job it self and a joke, lets save that kinda diffuclty for world bosses etc.
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Wildstar is not good because of its difficulty. Wildstar is good in spite of its difficulty because of the combat, graphics, animations, LAS and amp systems and housing
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Then you'll have veteran versions of all four.  These are not raid content.  They're just five man dungeons.
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I have suggested many times for carbine to make content easier, especially for the pre veteran leveling dungeons but... I'm quite sure carbine would rather lose all their jobs and be homeless over giving average or casual players a chance at this game.
 
You think it's hard now, you should have been here day 1. There's a reason why it started with 400k+ subs and now you'd be lucky to find more than 2 people in any given zone
 
With that said, I'd recommend sticking to solo leveling content until drop 4 which addresses some of your issues. Really shame to see you go so earlier cause Wildstar is hands down the best mmo out there
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This thread explains perfectly why the game is in its dead state. The "hardcore make things super challenging" argument won over the devs back in development.
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This thread explains perfectly why the game is in its dead state. The "hardcore make things super challenging" argument won over the devs back in development.
 
This hardcore attitudes brought us incredibly difficult dungeons and raids, but also 3 months to acquire your amps and ability points per character, a gruelling attainment process, extremely OP Pvp gear terrible RNG rune slots and crappy itemization 
 
It's a shame this mindset cost Carbine 60+ staff members with more to follow.
 
How many staff need to be laid off before Carbine gets that the orginal OP represents 400,000 subs while those saying "difficulty is fine just get gud" represent like 1000 people	
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That's not the argument. The argument is that the dungeons are good where they are at and aren't that hard. But they ARE fun.
 
See again that it only takes ONE experienced player to make the dungeons completely doable by most groups. The issue isn't the execution, but knowledge, and Carbine is taking steps to help people be more knowledgable.
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Danohavek sorry to hear that. Wildstar has some concepts different than other MMOs, and when people hit them, some cannot find a way to adjust and sadly leave the game. The most common I can think of:
* Interrupts - other games is a one player job, and only if boss allows it. Here is a group mechanic. For a world boss, either everyone runs away from the strong attack telegraph, or everyone hit interrupt so their combined effort overcomes and interrupt the boss.
* Builds - while the action bar is a small one, it makes more important what skills you have accessible at any given time, and very likely you will need to switch skills whenever solo leveling, group dungeon, and PvP, even if your role doesn't change (dps). For a more generic approach, keep at least 2 cc, 2 survival (heal, mitigation, exit combat).
 
While dungeons here are more difficult than other MMOs around the same level, if you take some time and watch YouTube guides, you're find some encounters have mechanics that help you, and if you use them, fight is not that hard.	
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I think Carbine needs to balance between ease of play and retention.  When I first started doing dungeons at level 20 - they were HARD.  It was actually very refreshing because I'd gotten used to (and jaded by) other MMOs where things were just handed to me with no real effort on my part.  So having a challenge to sink my teeth into was exciting, it kept me coming back until I'd beaten it.
 
However - over time as my own skills have improved, things have gotten easier, and easier, and easier.  I have a level 25 esper and more often than not when she goes through normal STL/KV with other alts from my guild, we simply don't die.  We one-shot bosses and get medals without even trying.  To be honest, it's a bit boring.  It's not because we're geared any better, and it's not because the dungeon's gotten easier - we've just gotten way more skilled as players since those first times on our first characters.
 
By the same token - every time I take a guild group into a veteran version of a dungeon, we're back up against that really tough challenge again.  But also every time we go we get better, and better.  We die a little less, we dodge more successfully, we stun more often at the right times.  We go from not being able to complete it to taking 3 hours to taking 2 and a half to taking 2 hours because we learn as players how to be better at the game in general.  It's most obvious when we go try a new dungeon, something we've never done before, and we get all the way through to the final boss within a couple of hours - on fights we've never seen, and didn't research beforehand.
 
I realize that not everyone really enjoys being challenged in this way.  Personally I love the fact that Wildstar pushes me to be a better player.  And I can honestly say that if it didn't do that, it simply wouldn't hold my attention.  I am the kind of gamer that sticks with a game for years if it has something that draws me in and excites me.  In most other games that's been the vast game world to explore - even in WoW, which was mind-numbingly boring for me in terms of gameplay, I had fun exploring the world for over a year.  Here in Wildstar however, the world's honestly not that big, so the thing that excites me is the gameplay.
 
Take that away, and what does Wildstar have left?  Really?
 
If this were a beta discussion, changing this aspect of the game might be something that would be feasible.  But painful experience in past games has taught me that you can't fix a game after launch by ripping out the parts that make it unique, no matter how much those might be a barrier to entry to some players.  All that accomplishes is to drive off all the people that are actually playing and enjoying the game, for a mythical new audience of supposedly interested people that never materializes.
 
I am all for giving Wildstar more things to do and more places to explore.  But reducing the challenge of the game's group content?  You might as well suck out its soul.	
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This poster represents 1000 players
 
This poster represents 400,000 players.
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			I personally found it challenging when leveling, but far from undoable. Yes some classes were able to solo elites and mini champs that others can't, but no mmo has equally balanced classes.	
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			And like other MMOs, a group that goes to a dungeon, but no one knows the fight mechanics is more likely they will fail.	
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You don't know that. These numbers are fabricated in your head and have no basis in reality.
 
Again, TT has said that running dungeons is the greatest predictor of sticking with the game. If that's true, it seems they nailed it in terms of fun factor, which in the end is what matters.
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			question.......do you turn with your keyboard or mouse?	
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			I have to stay away from this thread, everyone's opposition to making leveling content easier for casuals is destroying what little faith I have for this game to succeed.	
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And like other MMOs, a group that goes to a dungeon, but no one knows the fight mechanics is more likely they will fail.
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			Casuals do not need easier content.  Bad players, who refuse to adapt to a totally different game, do.  And I hope they never find it here.  It isn't that hard once you get used to the basic mechanics, and communicate with a group.  Solo content is plenty easy enough.  If a quest suggests 2+ players, you should have to really know what you're doing to pull it off solo.	
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I have to stay away from this thread, everyone's opposition to making leveling content easier for casuals is destroying what little faith I have for this game to succeed.
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I have to stay away from this thread, everyone's opposition to making leveling content easier for casuals is destroying what little faith I have for this game to succeed.
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Unless you are saying that failing a dungeon leads to a lost sub.
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I have to stay away from this thread, everyone's opposition to making leveling content easier for casuals is destroying what little faith I have for this game to succeed.
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When I tried the level 20 dungeon, I cackled with delight and fell in love with the game. So did many others. The fun of those dungeons is the reason most of us are here (TT said that running dungeons is the highest predictor of staying with the game).
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			I don't presume to speak for the community team but I think this thread (unlike many others) has led to some very good discussion about something that is, unfortunately, a very hard message for some players to have to hear.  It doesn't feel toxic to me yet as most of the posts have simply been people (mostly respectfully) voicing their opinions about a very contentious issue.	
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			As long as threads stay constructive and on topic, there's no problem leaving them. So, please do keep rule number 1 of the CoC in mind and keep it on topic and we're all good here.	
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			And I'm appreciative! Thank you!  :)	
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Why do people always want to assume that casuals need an easy game to play?  We just don't play it as much and/or we don't get into the higher end game content like raiding and rated PvP.
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Yasfan, TT was talking about leveling dungeons where gear is not a big draw.
 
And I don't know how you are making a thread complaining that group content is too difficult into a thread about wanting challenging solo play. Cabine has definitely added solo content- maybe not as challenging as you might want, but that's a different thread.	
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Hmmm. Well, TT's statement doesn't surprise me. After all, if you don't run dungeons, the best you can get in the game comes from crafting and adventures. 
 
So unless you run dungeons, you cap out quickly, have nothing to do to improve that you find fun, get bored, and leave. Unless, of course, you're someone who likes to play alone and also doesn't play the game to reach the top of your playstyle at all, have no substantial interest in improving your character, don't play for challenge, and don't need to understand how your character works to enjoy the game.
 
Like people who like NPC dialogue and cutscenes more than they like progression. Or people who still haven't figured out what your gadget slot is for. For those players, as Vic has noted in the post below, Drop 4 is your version of heaven.
 
 
Actually, raiders are getting a new DS in Drop 4. Remember? It had to be completely retuned for them because not enough of them could coordinate into 40-person groups, even though this game's endgame progression was tailored to be a raider's dream come true. So it's not like they haven't got any love from the developers since launch. They have. It's just that the love they're getting is a complete rebuild of the second raid, because far too many of them just won't commit what they need to do in order to do what they were given at launch.
 
So most raiders are in fact getting a new raid in Drop 4, and I'll bet they'll enjoy it immensely. As for that relatively small subset of raiders could reach the end of DS40, they represent such a tiny subset of the playerbase that quite frankly, it would be business suicide to put the kind of effort that will have to go into another raiding tier just for them so that they aren't bored. Such is the tragedy of being able to soar like an eagle--it's lonely at the top.
 
And of course there's no point in making new content for people who have actually completed the raids already in the game. To the best of my knowledge at present, that's 0 players.
 
But there IS a group that hasn't gotten anything. Not since launch, and not at launch either.
 
That would be solo players who play for challenge, who expect to be able to face something that's going to press them to the limits of their abilities and be appropriately rewarded for it. Kind of odd when you think about it, since there's really no reason to expect that group players should somehow be more interested in challenge than solo players, but solo players are more numerous in the MMORPG playerbase than group players.
 
Looking foward to seeing that content, should it ever make its way onto the "yes, we're going to put some of this in the game" category. Heck, forget content--I'd even be delighted to see a statement saying "yes, we're going to put some of this in the game". Unless I've missed it, there hasn't been one.
 
 
I can. All I need to do is put in the stuff that I added in red and your statement becomes flatly absurd, as shown below.
 
 
See how silly that statement is now?
 
I tell you what, since raiders have gotten SO little since launch and solo/small group players have gotten SO much, let's give raiders something new, tuned to the same difficulty as EVERYTHING that solo/small group players have. After all, since Carbine's lavishing so much of that love on the solo players, I'd hate for raiders to feel left out.
 
May I suggest a title for the drop? How about "The Return of LFR".
 
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Actually, raiders are getting a new DS in Drop 4. Remember? It had to be completely retuned for them because not enough of them could coordinate into 40-person groups, even though this game's endgame progression was tailored to be a raider's dream come true. So it's not like they haven't got any love from the developers since launch. They have. It's just that the love they're getting is a complete rebuild of the second raid, because far too many of them just won't commit what they need to do in order to do what they were given at launch.
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Yasfan, TT was talking about leveling dungeons where gear is not a big draw.
 
And I don't know how you are making a thread complaining that group content is too difficult into a thread about wanting challenging solo play. Cabine has definitely added solo content- maybe not as challenging as you might want, but that's a different thread.
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This game is made for a VERY select few, mainly close-nit guilds that want to challenge theirselves. This game is extremely too hard and frustrating, questing was fun for a while, but a level 20 dungeon should not be so frustrating(if you for some miracle find a group for low level content) I have nothing but a headache from playing this game. Also this game should lean towards casual players more, you need a lot casuals for a massive player base, all your doing is catering to these hardcore guilds, that complain about everything and leave, come back later when you obey them and leave again. Anyways /endsubscription. Make an enjoyable game, I wanted to play a game not die form high blood pressure doing it
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			Yasfan sorry but blighthaven is soloable. Elyona and the tree event is soloable and has been soloable for a very very very long time. I'm at 23000/32000 by doing it solo from now and then. Just saying	
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Thanks, Zoomie, I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Deliberately misquoting people I see.
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Yasfan, your reasoning that the dungeons are the best predictor of sticking with the game is because other players run out of stuff to do is terrible logic. In the context TT said it, it's pretty clear he was talking about levelers leaving before hitting cap. These aren't people who have run out of stuff to do.
 
As for this solo hardcore stuff, please just start a new thread about that. This thread is arguing that group content is too challenging, which has nothing to do with Carbine not creating challenging solo content. You are high jacking the thread.
 
For what it's worth, I think hardcore solo content would be awesome.	
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Yasfan, your reasoning that the dungeons are the best predictor of sticking with the game is because other players run out of stuff to do is terrible logic. In the context TT said it, it's pretty clear he was talking about levelers leaving before hitting cap. These aren't people who have run out of stuff to do.
 
As for this solo hardcore stuff, please just start a new thread about that. This thread is arguing that group content is too challenging, which has nothing to do with Carbine not creating challenging solo content. You are high jacking the thread.
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This poster represents 1000 players
 
 
This poster represents 400,000 players.
 
Carbine decided to go with the 1000 players and a dead game and 60 staff layoffs with more to come, is what we have to show for it.
 
Keep in mind, we are talking about the first level 20 dungeon here and not the much more difficult veteran level 50 ones
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And nothing for hardcore solo players.
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			I liked it more when people thought MMOs were about improving their personal abilities and learning fights, not just rolling their face on a keyboard and expecting loot. Good going WoW, good going.	
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I liked it more when people thought MMOs were about improving their abilities and learning fights, not just rolling their face on a keyboard and expecting loot. Good going WoW, good going.
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That's not really wow's fault, but more the combination of our mass-consumption society with it's instant-gratification behaviour and the mainstream garbage that's being produced and given the label "game".
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New player here!I've played through the first 2 dungeons so far and I can confirm they are challenging, even hard, but that's only the case because I am an unexperienced player. For less tenacious players it probably is frustrating, especially because most new players don't realize the importance of interrupts (and what interrupt armor is). Me and my 2 mates I played them with were the only ones actually doing interrupts. Me being the tank and the other guys being a dps and a healer. Yes the healer had to do interrupts as well, cause no one else did.I think there are two major reasons people turn away from the game before actually reaching anything near endgame content.
The first one them being slow learners (no offense!). I reckon most gamers expect to be lead through their first content without facing any real problems to speak of. This game is trying to bring back challenging gameplay to MMOs which good if not awesome! Alot of newbies probably don't know the essential stuff about doing dungeons, which will probably be solved in Drop4.
 
The other problem might be an actual difficulty problem. To have people enjoy challenging gameplay you need to give them time to gradually adjust to a high difficulty level. I am not saying to make the game easier in general. Most certainly not. But by making the early dungeons a little bit more forgiving, while still pointing out the importance of the dodge and interrupt mechanics you might keep new players for a longer time and accustom them to a challenging and complex gameplay they won't find anywhere else.
It's about showing them how awesome the challenge can be!	
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....
It's about showing them how awesome the challenge can be!
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Moving the char, dodging in the right direction, trigger the right skills at the right time - esp. the interrupts, not to pull masses of mobs when dodging, looking at my telegraph to hit the monster, adjusting chats direction, avoiding monsters telegraphs, consider the cooldowns of my skills,... all those things happen simultaniously. And if you disregard some of them, you'll surely die in W* (not necessarily in other games).
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Razer Naga, helps ALOT to be honest. I don't know if I was able to play the game properly without one. I doubt it. But with it, it's awesome fun. =)
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Maybe they need to make an "EZ mode" or "Casual" server where you have 3x the HP you're supposed to have or something.  I don't know what the answer is. 
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Why would a casual player want that? :blink:
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Razer Naga, helps ALOT to be honest. I don't know if I was able to play the game properly without one. I doubt it. But with it, it's awesome fun. =)
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Most of the mechanics in all these dungeons and raids can be completely negated by using proper interupts and CC breakers.
 
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