Report 1717

Report #1717
Skillset: Skill: Shield/Reflect/Avoid/Defense
 Org: Glomdoring Status: Rejected Jul 2017
Furies' Decision:
We do not believe this is necessary.
Problem: In smaller scale combats its too easy to effectively stonewall an enemy
with defensive measures. This report seeks to limit the scale of defensive
actions common to all and some offensive defenses.
[A: 2 R:11] Solution #1: On a rolling 20 second cool down every time you cast
 shield/reflections/avoid/(add any other spammable
 defensive skill in comments) you will increase the
 balance usage of that paticular ability by 1 seconds.
 So for example if you cast invoke circle three times
 in the row the first cast is 4 seconds, then 5 then
 6. Cool down should be separate for each skill
 allowing having multi defensive skills to be a boon
 instead of overlap.
[A: 1 R:11] Solution #2: Same thing but instead of a rolling cool down a fixed
 cool down of 8 seconds from the last cast.
[A: 0 R:12] Solution #3: Also include a number of offensive actions such as
 the webbing enchantment. Logic behind this is it can
 be used in a defensive measure akin to shielding
 spamming to stonewall targets. Note I would not
 include certain class specific skills in this such as
 hangman or vines. The reson for the class based
 exclusion is part of the dehomogenisation process
 it'll be a step onto certain classes having a much
 stronger constant hinder than others. Would
 essentially be a buff to things such as hangman/vines
 in a way.
Player Comments:
---[Veyils on 7/2 @ 19:44 sets as pending]
---[Danquik on 7/11 @ 23:27 writes]:
Not really for these changes. People spamming shield 1vs1 are not doing anything
offensively, usually, and people spamming shield in groups are not helping the
group. I don't really feel people should be punished for hiding behind defensive
skills, just cause they are annoying to deal with. Also, in groups shields and
other defensive skills should not be an issue, tracking your target
shielding/reflection is something everyone should be doing in a group so it can
be stripped. As far as Solution 3, I think there are too many cases for
exceptions in regards to 'class skills' to make this workable.
---[Wobou on 7/14 @ 01:19 writes]:
I agree with Danquik on this. I find it annoying when people spam
headslam/shieldstun/etc. every balance and as you point out in sol 3 these can
be used to stonewall just as much. Basically sol 1 and 2 I feel just changes the
balance to fix one particular form of imbalance in trade for another and sol 3
sounds incredibly messy in that there would be a list of inclusions and
exclusions. I do agree with the premise of the report but I think rather than
nerfing all or a selection of abilities it'd be good to look at specific class
interactions, specifically the ones who can be entirely countered by spamming
shield (I suspect these are mostly guardians/wiccans). I'm generally nervous,
even though this is an unfortunate state of affairs, of anything that could
potentially change group balance for the sake of 1v1 balance as well. I like 1v1
myself and I wish the game had more mechanical support for classes to 1v1 and
more reasons for them to do so but it is what it is.
---[Shedrin on 7/16 @ 07:03 writes]:
I'm a bit conflicted. This is a bit of a problem, but I agree with Danquik and
Wobou that this may not be the best approach.
---[Veyils on 7/17 @ 16:47 writes]:
I found it was more warriors and monks who suffer from stonewalling tatics.
Maybe its not a great way to fix it but well there was some discussion and it
felt like a good way to start to have a standard "cooldown" or reduction in the
ability to stonewall across the board instead of nerfing individual abilities.
That way we have a base level to work with and can add and remove abilities.
---[Iytha on 7/18 @ 09:36 writes]:
Agreed with prior comments: while this is a problem, I don't feel that this
report addresses it in a good way.
---[Anelissa on 7/22 @ 00:23 writes]:
To be honest, I don't really see stonewalling as an issue in group combat. If
your spamming avoid/reflect/etc while being focused in a group setting, you're
really just knocking one person off balance and the rest of the group is going
to hit you. The only real time I see stonewalling being an issue is in 1v1. It
is extremely annoying for monks, because it's pretty easy to just spam avoid or
timeslip or reflection to force me to reset stance, or to wait for your burst
window to close, but I don't think adding an increasing balance per use is
really the answer, like Dan and Wobs said.
---[Ciaran on 7/23 @ 09:43 writes]:
I support this change in essence, but the solutions you've written up go way too
far. I'd start with a rolling 10s cooldown (refreshed if you use shield again
within the 10s) and a progressively .5s longer balance time. First just for
lowmagic/highmagic shield, along with salt. I think it'd be a good way to test
the mechanic, to potentially add to other skills which are spammed. Hopefully we
can foster less repetitive playstyles.
---[Ejderha on 7/29 @ 22:29 writes]:
I do not think the problem statement as stated points to a real problem. Perhaps
because it is too broad and vague. If there are particular issues, I think they
should be addressed particularly. This blanket change is too disruptive and I
think goes too far. Defensive combat is a valuable thing to enable, in my
opinion. If the problem is monk/warrior vs. reflection, then make raze work
against reflections. Direct solutions would be much better than this blanket
change.