132818-signature-plan-gives-no-ncoins-page-2

Page 1, Page 2, Page 3
== Content ==
			
{| class="blockquote"
. . . or they could just make it a big sack of onmibits that doesn't count toward the cap.  Omnibits can only be spent here, so no worries about getting a mess of them here and redeeming them in other worlds.  If coding that is a bear, make it a scheduled deposit that happens an hour before the scheduled cap reset.
----
			ya alot of the other games i seen they charge 10$ a month for their vip and give like 5$ of their item mall cash to boot. so ya 5$ item mall cash on a 15$ sub should be a given at least and they could make the item mall currency they do give seperate from the normal stuff and make it useable in wildstar only.
			
				
	Edited October 2, 2015 by Darkstarz	
----
			As Shendorion suggested... the real solution here is a monthly stipend of OMNIBITS  (not NCoin). Omnibits that dont count towards the weekly cap.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Actually no.  The founder's pack in Blade and Soul said that the NC coins could be used for either Wildstar or Blade and Soul.  So it doesn't matter to them.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Actually no.  The founder's pack in Blade and Soul said that the NC coins could be used for either Wildstar or Blade and Soul.  So it doesn't matter to them.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's a one time deal which contributes to the price of the founder's packs. People are asking Carbine to add a monthly supply of free virtual currency that could be spent in any NCSoft game's cash shop on top of what is already offered in WildStar's existing Signature plan. I can see that mattering to NCSoft a great deal.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It isn't free though. In fact it is more expensive than buying the NCoins. In what way is NCsoft losing money in it because it can be used in other games? Remember that a subscriber spends more money than the average F2P player so you want to convert as many people as possible.
----
			I agree with many of you that they should give subscribers a (100% maybe?) buff to Omnibits earned (and remove the cap) and/or a monthly stipend of them. 	
----
			I think the subscription is more just intended for the hardcore crowd who want every perk they can get. The average player probably is better off just buying NCoin and not subscribing.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
.......... Remember that a subscriber spends more money than the average F2P player so you want to convert as many people as possible.
----
			Only bought signature for the XP bonus to level up some fresh characters. After I get my Esper and Warrior to 50, I don't think I'll continue paying for perks I really don't care that much about. I'd much rather buy CREDD once a month for an influx of plat rather than trying to play enough to make the signature benefits worth paying for.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yes some players will never touch their wallet in F2P but they're such a minority it isn't a worrying factor as an average F2P supposedly spends no less then $200 a year on F2P games, while a subber is locked into a fixed price so will pay no more then the highest bundle which is normally no more then $100.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Not really. The majority of top 10 most profitable online games each year are F2P, even with online shops subbed games don't compare, the top spot is LoL and has been since they went F2P, another one which has never been subbed and is always top 5 is a game called MapleStory. Yes some players will never touch their wallet in F2P but they're such a minority it isn't a worrying factor as an average F2P supposedly spends no less then $200 a year on F2P games, while a subber is locked into a fixed price so will pay no more then the highest bundle which is normally no more then $100. It's not unusual to play with gamers who spend a few grand a year on F2P games because there are a lot of young adults with disposable incomes out there that don't see a problem with that sort of spending on a game they like. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It's been pointed out that NCoin is an NCSoft account level currency that can be spent in the cash shops of other NCSoft games (Aion, Lineage II and B&S) as well as WildStar. That pretty much settles it. They're not going to grant a free monthly stipend of a currency that can be used in other games' cash shops.
----
			If they can't give us Ncoin, what about Omnibits? 	
----
			Signature isn't even giving game play atm.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If they can't give us Ncoin, what about Omnibits? 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It isn't free though. In fact it is more expensive than buying the NCoins. In what way is NCsoft losing money in it because it can be used in other games? Remember that a subscriber spends more money than the average F2P player so you want to convert as many people as possible.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
They give you a bonus collection rate to Omnibits if you are Signature
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
They do?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
They do?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The only thing you can't buy with OmniBits, is Madame Fey's tokens... so, I'm good with using OmniBits to pay for things..
----
			
This is ncsoft we are talking about....good luck with them actually being fair to their customers.
 
 
I 100% agree though!	
----
			If there was a way to lock say $5 a month worth of NC coins to just Wildstar i'd prob agree. You do have the ability to get extra omnibits. Also if anyone Refs Swtor " Swtor does this " go back and have a long hard look at their store.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Seems a little sad you can't throw in like $5 worth of NCoins with a $15 monthly subscription...  Most other subscription plans I've see all seem to give a little currency too.  Sad, really sad.
 
Please change this.
 
Thanks
 
 
Please Like to Sign like a petition =D
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Entitlement at its finest, folks.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Entitlement at its finest, folks.
----
			
After playing a bit and seeing the increase rate of Omni's and the cost associated with rerolling rune slots, etc.  I have to chime in with those who think that there should be some bits given out with the signature service.
 
From what I'm seeing with the cosmic awards and those of us who did box purchases, there is very little benefit from continuing the service unless we are wanting to operate a guild.  At the end of the day a lot of the experience and other bonus's are built into several other avenues.
 
A small stipend of 400-500 bits would be appropriate in my opinion, especially since we know that the shop will be expanded over time.  This would have allowed us to purchase the service tokens for month 1 and pick up one or two nice things each month as part of our subscription.
 
 
I agree that we shouldn't get Ncoins, that's too far.  However, the 15$ cost nets you this in a lot of other FtP games.  There is a precedent and an expectation purely from an industry standard point of view.  I believe it would also assist in further increasing the signature service subs that you'd see and would help with overall retention.	
----
			
Businesses must strive to be competitive in order to stay alive.
 
Right now, Carbines subscription plan (signature service) is not very competitive compared to other games its competeing with. By "not very competitive" I simply mean this. The amount of money a customer is paying for it, doesnt net the same quality or quantity of service that competing games do with their similarly priced service.
 
Thats just bad business. The fact that paying customers within the first week have already started to question the value of what they are paying for in this game, vs what they have paid for in other games, is a clear (and bad) sign that Carbine needs to rethink the signature service a bit to make it more competitive. Otherwise, there arent going to be many people who actually keep the service...
 
... which in turn, is bad for Carbine, and bad for wildstar... and ultimately... bad for all the players. Its win win to make a service that feels more worth the value you are paying for it, for everyone.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'd hardly call it entitlement. I think it's just people seeing other, similar games, with quite similar cash shops also giving their subscribers stipends and people feel like it would be a nice incentive to keep their sub active.
 
Personally, yeah the EXP, Rested EXP, and Reputation boosts are nice. But that all doesn't matter once I'm done leveling. The 30 AH buys and posts is nice, but only if you're someone who plays the AH. There's just not enough there I think, and I would agree with most people here, a significant increase to Omnibits dropped and/or a monthly stipend would absolutely make an active sub more worth it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And, as mentioned above.. they increase the price on things additionally, to account for the subscriber grant.  They're trying to set the price points to make item X cost just above the monthly allotment, so you'll buy more cartel coins, and buy it anyway.
 
No grant means prices don't have to be priced around the grant.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I find Wildstar prices to be somewhat high already. Some of those mounts/costume/etc are about $20...they do unlock for the whole account I think, but still.
----
			
Regarding Omnibits, the weekly (soft) cap is 120, and you get a "goodly amount" of Ominibits (I got 50) as the 5 day log-in reward and a moderate amount (?) every 5 days afterwards. At present, the daily rewards end at 180 days, but I imagine they'll be working on extending them (probably with a similar pattern, so they can just replace the non-consumables). Also, there's the +100% Omnibit drop rate in Tier 5 of Cosmic Rewards.
 
Theoretically, how many Omnibits could one have at the end of the month, and what would be the expected time investment to get to the weekly cap? The pet, costume sets and 2 of the 3 mounts cast 395 Omnibits (790 NCoin) each. What do you think a subscriber should be able to afford off the cash shop each month without paying real money? A pet? A mount? A costume set?
 
Some people have asked for $5 worth of NCoin, but that's actually only 400 NCoin - not enough to afford one the things mentioned above. Granted, one can only buy Fortune Coins at 80 NCoins each, but most of what you can get from Madame Fey you can get on the AH for cheap now. Granted, there's the Spider Mount, but that's meant to be ultra-rare. If they had planned to make it possible for people to get it easily/for free, they would have made Fortune Coins purchasable with Omnibits.
 
Anyway, my point is, people can still get more from the cash shop for free, with a bit of time spent in the game, than what they could get with the NCoin stipend that some people are asking for for subscribers. That being said, I agree with the sentiment that subscribers should get more, but, as I've said previously, IMHO, it should be tied to how quickly and/or how many Omnibits they can accumulate per month through gameplay, rather than a stipend of some sort.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think it's ridiculous that they don't do this. This is a basic feature to any GOOD free-to-play game. Look at SWTOR. They grant you x amount cartel coins each month you have a sub as a 'thank you' for subbing and an incentive to sub. The fact that we don't get anything for our subscription in that regard is a bit shocking actually. I had thought they did this. Serves me right for assuming Carbine would follow suit with the most basic staple of free-to-play games, I guess?
----
			I feel like either a boost the amount of Omnibits you have a weekly bonus....or a small bit of omnibits per month would both be good additions to the signature.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
My question right now is... what's the point in maintaining a subscription? What do I actually gain since I've been grandfathered in to all the typical bonuses?
----
			just my two cents but whether or not a stipend is involved the reason I will continue my signature status and buy nccoins is because I love this game! If everyone stops paying then carbine can't pay our wonderful devs.... And believe it not those working on this game do have families to support .... So I will continue to support the game with signature and nccoins purchases :)	
----
			
I am basically subbing for the same reason. It's a good game worth paying for, and I don't want to buy from the cash shop. I want to earn power, not buy it (and to me, the ability to choose slots in order to prep gear for raiding is power), so I'll maintain a sub.
 
But I tealy hate the fact that while I'm supporting this game, they are trying to extract even more from us with this tune nonsense. Either raise the omnibit cap for subs, or reduce re-roll/extraction costs for subs. Then I will feel like it has real value.
			
				
	Edited October 6, 2015 by SlyJeff	
----
			
I feel like the signature service is a real bum deal on this game; sure it might be alright for fresh levelling characters but there is little to encourage level 50 characters to consider subbing. Even worse is the lack of a stipend which I find to be really stupid, this also reduces the want/need for credd. Having already unlocked the few useful things from the loyalty program, I cannot see myself subbing ever again if it remains the way it is.
 
Some ideas to make subscription more appealing:
 
Stipend of ncoin (say 3-500)
50% more max elder gems per week.
100% faster omnibit gain.
Access to members only sales on the cash shop. (on top of regular sales)
 
Obviously the idea is to speed up aquisition of items, give people convinience as well as an incentive to use the cash shop more. (because both subbing and using the cash shop is very expensive.)	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I stopped reading when you said SWTOR was a good F2P game. Everything in that shop is stupidly overpriced, the feature unlocks for 30 days at a time are the worst cash grab I've seen in an F2P MMO, and all the different random junk boxes are hugely random with a high crap to shiny ratio.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Want a game with a good f2p model with an optional subscription service?  Check out RIFT.  They don't have a monthly allotment of coins..
----
			 I do think there should be some kind of incentive to choose a subscription over not having one. Which there isn't one when it comes to this issue.	
----
			
Ultimately, if you don't feel the subscription is worth the cost, and others agree. People will stop buying it, and this will force Carbine to reconsider their subscription benefits. 
 
Personally, Im just happy the subscription doesn't offer anything that would make me feel almost "forced" to get it. "Like extra hotbars and stuff etc". I'm a subscriber now but not sure if I will keep it. Will largely depend on how frequently I end up playing. But I like that I won't feel like a second class citizen if I choose to drop my subscription.	
----
			
Also, they could offer a couple fortune coins as part of a sub. 
 
Trove currently does something similar by offering 4 daily chaos chests to subscribers which is essentially their version of cash shop RNG.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Personally, Im just happy the subscription doesn't offer anything that would make me feel almost "forced" to get it. "Like extra hotbars and stuff etc". I'm a subscriber now but not sure if I will keep it. Will largely depend on how frequently I end up playing. But I like that I won't feel like a second class citizen if I choose to drop my subscription.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It's cheaper then some of the things on the WoW and Rift Cash Shops.
 :lol:
----
			
Rift is mess of a game, played it for years and eventually gave up cuz of fail logic there.
But if it has any good sides nowdays it's a business model.
 
NCsoft might just wanna take a peak and do it's own replica of it.
Rift's f2p model is by far best one out there but Wildstar is on a good way to get on no.1 if this trend continues.	
----
			
I think we can all agree that there are good versions of this and bad.
 
What we want to see if something that's great for Wildstar.  A real value that keeps folks here and encourages others to pick up the service.	
----
			Honestly, I don't feel that WS is that bad off. There are just a few really ugly spots that take a real toll on some segments of the game.	
----
			It does feel like Signature in Wildstar gives... relatively few benefits all things considered. I'd probably get more spening a year's worth of subscription money on the cashshop, using the Cosmic rewards to buffer most of the limitations.	
----
			After supporting this game continually via subscription since shortly after launch, I think this is my first post.  Unfortunately, the post is to say that I agree 100% with the OP and that I have cancelled my Signature account today.  I'm unhappy with a lot of the F2P changes - primarily the increased in-game costs (runes, holo-wardrobe, etc..) that are clearly intended to move even Signature players to the in-game store, but even more-so, the lack of NC Coins provided with my $15 monthly subscription.  As may have stated, this is a departure from almost all other AAA F2P MMOs (3 of which I've played), and I have no choice but to voice my displeasure with my wallet.  While I'm grateful that I can still log in and dabble as a F2P player, I fear that this is the excuse I've been waiting for to move on and find my next gaming home.  I'm hoping Carbine/NCSoft comes around on this one, and I'll be checking in on the website occasionally to see.  Good luck the rest of you staying on Nexus!	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
After supporting this game continually via subscription since shortly after launch, I think this is my first post.  Unfortunately, the post is to say that I agree 100% with the OP and that I have cancelled my Signature account today.  I'm unhappy with a lot of the F2P changes - primarily the increased in-game costs (runes, holo-wardrobe, etc..) that are clearly intended to move even Signature players to the in-game store, but even more-so, the lack of NC Coins provided with my $15 monthly subscription.  As may have stated, this is a departure from almost all other AAA F2P MMOs (3 of which I've played), and I have no choice but to voice my displeasure with my wallet.  While I'm grateful that I can still log in and dabble as a F2P player, I fear that this is the excuse I've been waiting for to move on and find my next gaming home.  I'm hoping Carbine/NCSoft comes around on this one, and I'll be checking in on the website occasionally to see.  Good luck the rest of you staying on Nexus!
----
			
I was a little amazed when i subbed for signature status how thankless it was. At first i even thought something had gone wrong, but then this little thought in the back of my head told me no this is probably how they made it.
 
And indeed after digging a little i confirmed my own suspicions, basically being a sub nets you almost nothing, some minor bonusses and thats it. 
 
Did no one on the dev team even take a peak at other free 2 play titles that are working strong like Lotro and SWTOR how they do it?
 
I dont need a monthly stipend or whatever, or some massive pay to win bonus but atleast the character slots unlocked would be a simple gesture.
 
I've stopped the sub right away, it does not add anything for me at all.
 
I find the game fun to play but its stuff like this that gets people to stop and move on, which is the biggest danger mmo's have these days. They couldnt even do a big welcome new player thing, get some reduced prices and bonusses to retain players? 
 
Who the heck is head marketing? You need to go back to school man, live and learn. Play your own game for a while and see where it leads.	
----
			
I ve changed my mind on this topic, after doing some research and how costly,  rune modifications,  crafting and dying are,  they do need the signature subscription to heavily reduce these costs.  Service tokens would be a good stipend, or omnibits.
 
If not a stipend some sort of system to help with these extremely expensive cost. The sub player shouldn't hve to worry about this.  This will be a deal breaker for many peeps. Which is a shame becoz its not hard to fix.
 
The signature sub is so pathetic, its not worth selling credd.	
----
			
I'd say that, just like any game that's recently converted to F2P, that there's going to be a period of time where the business model slowly adjusts to the demand. 
 
Threads like these are vital to that adjustment, IMHO.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'd say that, just like any game that's recently converted to F2P, that there's going to be a period of time where the business model slowly adjusts to the demand.
 
Threads like these are vital to that adjustment, IMHO.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think it's ridiculous that they don't do this. This is a basic feature to any GOOD free-to-play game. Look at SWTOR. They grant you x amount cartel coins each month you have a sub as a 'thank you' for subbing and an incentive to sub. The fact that we don't get anything for our subscription in that regard is a bit shocking actually. I had thought they did this. Serves me right for assuming Carbine would follow suit with the most basic staple of free-to-play games, I guess?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I ve changed my mind on this topic, after doing some research and how costly,  rune modifications,  crafting and dying are,  they do need the signature subscription to heavily reduce these costs.  Service tokens would be a good stipend, or omnibits.
 
If not a stipend some sort of system to help with these extremely expensive cost. The sub player shouldn't hve to worry about this.  This will be a deal breaker for many peeps. Which is a shame becoz its not hard to fix.
 
The signature sub is so pathetic, its not worth selling credd.
----
			People who have lives, family, and work commitments don't have to time to farm omnibits, so it should be a stipend, or something that allows the casual gamer to keep pace with the hardcore players.  I am not saying they should be equal, just give the casual guy, something to work with.  Spending 3hrs a night for 3-5 days of farming is really not what this game is about.	
----
			With the absolute blast I'm having starting over I went to check out the sub and... well, I have to agree with most here: it's not worth it. Wanting to spent some MMO euro's and finding there's really nothing for me to spent it on can't be good. We need you guys to have a solid revenue stream, so sell us something gooood! B)	
----
			
Parks. Farming is for people who wnat significantly more htne their soft cap per month. Soft cap is 120 omnibits which equal 240 NC coins. It costs you about 4 hours of gameplay per week to gain this.
 
If you are playing less then 4 hours per week, then there is a qeustion why are you subscribing instead of dumping those 15 bucks directly into NC coins?
 
Dont take this as an insult (especailly as I would welcome some boost aswell, as I descriped before) but you just seem to be needlessly greedy.
 
Be reasonable. Omnibits can be farmed for sure but you are getting them simply for playing. They are literally everywhere. Quests, mobs, pvp and even logging on daily basis gives you omnibits. It goes far beyond simple mechanic of farming.	
----
			
People need to stop saying omnibits are the substitute for a stipend.
 
Why?
 
ALL players, even those who dont pay 15 a month for the subscription, can earn omnibits. Omnibits are NOT something that a paying customer can say "I feel like they are giving me value for what im paying for" because FREE players are getting the same thing.
 
"But you get an omnibit buff that increases how many you can earn after you sub long enough"
 
Right... but reaching that buff requires a LONG time subbing. Which means you could sub for 6 months and still not see that buff. Great way to make your paying customers feel valued.
 
The fact remains. Spending 15 dollars a month on NCoin that you then spend in the shop, will net you that omnibit buff JUST as quickly as subscribing AND, you will eventually end up with most of the perks as a subscriber, PLUS all the additional things that you can buy on the store with all those NCoin.
 
Carbine has done an amazing job making the game extremely good for F2P players, but they have kinda given those willing to subscribe, the cold shoulder. Its just dumb marketing. Really dumb. A f2p game best way to earn money is to get someone to subscribe AND to buy store coins at the same time. Not make the paying customers pick one over the other. The subscription drastically needs valued elements that make it worth the cost above and beyond what NCoins can get you on the shop, and currently, it simply doesnt.
 
You hear that Carbine? The paying customers want to hear what you have in store for us. Silence will most likely be met with them no longer giving you money.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
"But you get an omnibit buff that increases how many you can earn after you sub long enough"
 
Right... but reaching that buff requires a LONG time subbing. Which means you could sub for 6 months and still not see that buff. Great way to make your paying customers feel valued.
 
The fact remains. Spending 15 dollars a month on NCoin that you then spend in the shop, will net you that omnibit buff JUST as quickly as subscribing AND, you will eventually end up with most of the perks as a subscriber, PLUS all the additional things that you can buy on the store with all those NCoin.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That, and the buff doesn't even require a subscription.  I could cancel my account now and I'd still be getting double omnibits next month.
----
			
That buff is very deep into Tier 5.  I know, I'm 42000 points away from it.  14 months of subscription service (yes, the 12-month block gets you 42k points). 
 
I bought enough box copies to carry my sub through November.  Since I maintained the sub from June 15(?) through the F2P launch I should be getting the free four months.  So just on that alone I'm good through March or April.  I also have five CREDD in the bank.... so why exactly should I pay for another 12-14 months now?
 
Or I could buy and use 14000 NCoins (ahahahaha.... No).
			
				
	Edited October 8, 2015 by PlasmaJohn	
----
			I will sign this thread! Please, please god give subscribers some sort of monthly stipend, whether its omnibits, ncoins, or even service tokens. 	
----
			Certainly feeling like signature needs something extra in terms of currency. The extra xp, currency and renown are much more useful for a new player than an old time one (and the currency boost doesn't seem that impactful)	
----
			I just learned that signature service gives extra glory. This is actually very beneficial if you are grinding glory for rune fragments.	
----
			
Yup. After doing my diligence and listening to both sides, I'm going to throw my lot in with "subscription isn't worth it without a stipend" camp.
 
The only real perks I've noticed is the speedier leveling because of the XP buff and being able to invite to the guild. That's nice and all, but now that I know everyone else gets pretty much the same access I get, and they get it for free, I just don't see the need to maintain my subscription. There will always be someone in the guild with a sub, and right now, we've got a lot of players anyway.	
----
			
Tex, you've been subscribed to the game for most of the last year, right?  You ought to have unlocked the Full Social Access perk on the Cosmic Rewards track (it's on the first tier, if memory serves). 
 
That's part of what makes signature service a soft option for longtime players: having paid into the game for previous months, we already get most of the QoL improvements that come with the service.  Maybe that's intended, maybe the devs are rewarding the players who kept the lights on by releasing them from the need to pay a subscription.  If so, blow fifteen bones a month on NCoin and call it macaroni.	
----
			Returning player here. i have noticed no real difference other than the 25% more XP from going from F2P over the weekend to sub on Monday. Once I ding 50 I will probably cancel if I dont get a stipend because it's more worthwhile to just buy the items that I want (xp pots, random character services) than to stay subbed.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Tex, you've been subscribed to the game for most of the last year, right?  You ought to have unlocked the Full Social Access perk on the Cosmic Rewards track (it's on the first tier, if memory serves). 
 
 
----
			
Madda is super jelly of the people with the never cancelling subscription mount.
 
But at the same time, Madda is glad that Madda didn't have to suffer for it.	
----
			
There is, of course, the possibility that because subscribers were a very small part of the population when F2P happened, that NCsoft really couldn't care less if we all unsubbed, because then they'd expect us just to buy NCoin anyway (which can also be used in other games).  Did the subs numbers go up a lot, I wonder?  If so then they may wish to keep them.
 
Another (B2P) game that I play not only gives a 20% discount in their store, but also gives a point stipend.
 
I agree that something that offsets the heinous rune costs would be appropriate, and also some sort of discount or currency value per month for subbers, is necessary if they want to keep subs.  They may not.
 
My sub goes until next April.  I'll be stopping it by then and just throwing in some NCoin as needed, unless the subs start actually providing more value.
 
With the opacity regarding how I got to my Cosmic Awards Tier current value, I am not even sure that my paid months were credited appropriately.   From the F2P streams and the page, I figured I'd be most of the way to 6 at F2P launch.  Is there any way to actually do the maths?  I like maths.  ;)	
----
			
I think a lot of the previously subbed players have four free months anyway, right? So for those of us in that situation, I think the idea is to get us hooked on the sub perks so we can't live without them?
 
I dunno. My main purpose for subbing is to support the game, I'm not going to lie (and I think I already said it). But I just don't want to feel blocked from content while doing it.
 
I think sig status probably needs a little more love, but not much. You don't want it to swing so far the F2P players are being held back.	
----
			
Well, I got news for them. I have never lasted more than three months in a F2P game I wasn't paying for. Once I lose that monetary obligation, my willingness to go longer and longer without logging in increases exponentially.
 
I am not sure if they gave subs too little or gave Freebots too much ... regardless, it's very easy to see how the Signature players are getting the short end of the stick.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think sig status probably needs a little more love, but not much. You don't want it to swing so far the F2P players are being held back.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
With the opacity regarding how I got to my Cosmic Awards Tier current value, I am not even sure that my paid months were credited appropriately.   From the F2P streams and the page, I figured I'd be most of the way to 6 at F2P launch.  Is there any way to actually do the maths?  I like maths.  ;)
----
			
Not just the xp buff. The gold buff is pretty nice.
 
My guess is, that the gold buff is there to offset some of the huge costs like dying and runing that are so painful. That is, the subscribers really should get discounts on that stuff, but rather than discount it, they just gave us more gold. This actually completely works from a logical standpoint. From an emotional one- not so much. Feeling that 40g plunge every time I roll a slot is painful. My mind isn't then thinking about the extra plat I got that day just from farming.
 
But I *have* noticed that my plat seems to go up and up. What I don't know is how well I'd be doing if I wasn't as geared as I am. Of course, my costs are higher, so maybe it all works.
 
Anyway, my point is that the signature service might be more value than I *feel* like it is, and my mind can admit this. However, most of us gamers don't tell our feelings whether they are enjoying the game or not- it's the other way around.	
----
			
Oh heck yeah, I just made 50 the other day, and without even trying I have almost 8 Plat just from the leveling process.
 
That's insane compared to how much money my Exiles had at this point - but you're exactly right. I wouldn't care if I had 80 plat, I see that huge runing cost and it's gonna *cupcake* me off not matter how much gold I have.
 
Now, if I knew I was paying (say) 20 gold and the Freebots were paying 40 for the same thing, I'd feel better but I'd still freak every time I hit the Purchase button.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 This actually completely works from a logical standpoint. From an emotional one- not so much.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think sig status probably needs a little more love, but not much. You don't want it to swing so far the F2P players are being held back. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 On the other hand, anything tangible will bring the "tis si P2W!1!!" crowd down on us.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Giving us more gold is really better than making a few things cheaper, since you can use the gold for ALL THE THINGS.
 
But I understand the need for something "tangible" to feel appreciated as a sub. On the other hand, anything tangible will bring the "tis si P2W!1!!" crowd down on us.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
My guess is, that the gold buff is there to offset some of the huge costs like dying and runing that are so painful. That is, the subscribers really should get discounts on that stuff, but rather than discount it, they just gave us more gold. This actually completely works from a logical standpoint. From an emotional one- not so much. Feeling that 40g plunge every time I roll a slot is painful. My mind isn't then thinking about the extra plat I got that day just from farming.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You'll be getting Omnibits as you play. This is effectively your stipend/discount.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yup. After doing my diligence and listening to both sides, I'm going to throw my lot in with "subscription isn't worth it without a stipend" camp.
 
The only real perks I've noticed is the speedier leveling because of the XP buff and being able to invite to the guild. That's nice and all, but now that I know everyone else gets pretty much the same access I get, and they get it for free, I just don't see the need to maintain my subscription. There will always be someone in the guild with a sub, and right now, we've got a lot of players anyway.
----
			Well. True subscribers have basically time to january as most of us got 4 free months of sub. So early in 2016 I personally decide if benefits it provides is worthy of my 15 bucks per month or not. I guess there might be changes to sub system, considering all of the topics on that matter.	
----
			
No, I don't think NCoins should come with a sub. I'm new here, and I've subbed. Y'all have to remember this game isn't on your screen. It's on a lot of very expensive hardware, eating some very expensive bandwidth, being worked on by some very hopeful people who want to see their creation survive and thrive. When you're completely immersed in a world, it's a mark of success of the world, but you must remember that Carbine does not live on Nexus (sadly for us all).
 
If you've read this far, awesome. Take a breather from the flying emotions for a sec and consider some points in the context of the gaming industry:
 
F2P here is ludicrously generous. Most others I've seen nerf your experience as F2P, locking away content or functionality. That doesn't happen here. That stuff about not starting groups or guilds, well, why would a casual player need leadership positions? It won't affect 99.9% of anyone.
On top of that, you get an alternative currency for breathing. I think I got an Omnibit for checking to see if my fly was zipped. If you're not happy with how fast you get the free cash while playing your free game, you have problems no forum can solve.
If you're subbed, you can still play with free players - no dead empty areas locked away from the freebots - but you get bonuses and conveniences on top of them
The cash shop right now has very little content. That will change. A wider selection, and likely a wider range of prices, will come. What you see there now is very likely *not* an indication of what the shop will look like 3 months from now. During that time, you will be proccing more Breathing Achievement Omnibits.
Be patient, Daniel-san.
The games that give you X coins per subbed month give them to you in one shot. By contrast, Omnibits drop quietly and one at a time. Less dramatic, but I have gotten nearly 200 Omnibits in a week of playing; SWTOR offers 500 coins per month of sub, plus 100 for having 2-factor auth. Math is your friend.
Do math and be patient, Daniel-san.
NCoins are bought directly from the publisher, and then applied to (and accounted for as revenue from) Wildstar, when you use them in this game. Omnibits, however, are a free gift direct from Carbine. Please understand that they are giving you a way to avoid paying the publisher for toys and services. That is why they are capped. Carbine really, really needs to be showing revenue improvements, immediately, to NCSoft - and they're still including a bonus program for all players, that potentially removes some cash purchases. Ponder that for a minute.
Be grateful and patient, Daniel-san.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled freakin' out.
 	
----
			Heya everyone! Thanks so much for your feedback on adding Ncoins to Signature subscriptions. We've sent this on up the pipeline to the team that handles that and will let you know if that gets changed later on.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Heya everyone! Thanks so much for your feedback on adding Ncoins to Signature subscriptions. We've sent this on up the pipeline to the team that handles that and will let you know if that gets changed later on.
----
			Our mighty voice(s) have been heard! Let us wait for the results.	
----
			Yeah, I'm heartened that their was a response. If nothing else, it makes me feel like we're being heard	
----
			Bump to clear several pages of spam	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Heya everyone! Thanks so much for your feedback on adding Ncoins to Signature subscriptions. We've sent this on up the pipeline to the team that handles that and will let you know if that gets changed later on.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Heya everyone! Thanks so much for your feedback on adding Ncoins to Signature subscriptions. We've sent this on up the pipeline to the team that handles that and will let you know if that gets changed later on.
----
			
Would it be possible to hear some feedback from the dev team as to what options are being looked at?
 
I understand, its still a decision in progress, but it would probably be helpful to engage the player population with questions and feedback as to what they would like to see in the signature plan.
 
Especially for those of us who are already subscribing.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And, as mentioned above.. they increase the price on things additionally, to account for the subscriber grant.  They're trying to set the price points to make item X cost just above the monthly allotment, so you'll buy more cartel coins, and buy it anyway.
 
No grant means prices don't have to be priced around the grant.
----
			
I have a fix income, I can save money for around 3 months and be able to get 2 subscriptions. Some months are better than others, so I cannot spend money every month to buy Ncoins to keep my signature status, get cosmic rewards. So my husband decided to subscribe to make it easier to get the money.
 
Saddly because I'm a subscriber, I don't get Ncoins, even when I spend money for 2 subscriptions every 3 months. This is not very nice guys. We love the game, we want to support it, heck if we were in the same country I would cook for the developers and send them delicious south american dishes.
 
Please give Ncoins to subscribers, we are spending money as well!
 
(Sorry for the funky english, I'm not a native speaker)	
----
			
posted this in another thread, but i will put it here to add to the whole
 
this is the only mmo i play that i do not sub to. normally, like many have said, the sub is worth it to get the little extras that f2p don't. the benefits to a sub here just aren't worth it to me. still having fun with the game, though	
----
			Personally, I'd rather see the signature status raise the weekly cap for omnibits (maybe something like double what it is for free to play). The pre-soft cap gain is already really high, and I'd rather have a bonus that works with that currency, since it's something I'm already obtaining in game. Otherwise, I end up with a small amount of NCoin and existing omnibits and my currencies are split. Giving a cap bonus would basically be like a stipend (providing you are spending some time each week playing), and in my mind would eliminate the frustration of being given a stipend that is often designed to remain under the price of things to keep people spending.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This. It's in the mathssss.
 
If you give signature more than the omnibit buff, prices for cash shop are readjusted to hit targets.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Not necessarily.  Adding a stipend of some sort to Signature might make more people subscribe.  It's a good incentive since it makes Signature more appealing for more than just boosts.  That means, even if NCSoft gives out $7.50 a month in NCoins, they're still getting another $7.50 in return from anyone who signs up for Signature that previously didn't see the appeal.
----
			My prediction: they'll only bundle some Ncoins into the Signature plans once the loyalty bonus Signature time expires. Currently there's a lot of veterans with 4+ months of free Signature status thanks to the loyalty rewards. This is quite a generous offer already so they aren't going to give away extra Ncoins if they don't have to. Once this bonus time expires and more people are paying for their Signature status again I would expect they will revise their policy on what's bundled.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
My prediction: they'll only bundle some Ncoins into the Signature plans once the loyalty bonus Signature time expires. Currently there's a lot of veterans with 4+ months of free Signature status thanks to the loyalty rewards. This is quite a generous offer already so they aren't going to give away extra Ncoins if they don't have to. Once this bonus time expires and more people are paying for their Signature status again I would expect they will revise their policy on what's bundled.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The whole point of the free signature time was to reward people who stuck with the game and continued to subscribe as it transitioned to F2P.  You paid for the four-ish months between the announcement and release and got four months of signature in return for your support.  Let's be honest, to do something like holding back a stipend until that time ends would be a really scummy thing to do to the people who stuck around.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
From a purely business perspective they aren't going to give away anything they don't need to. They never promised a stipend of Ncoins to Signature players. All they've said is they'll consider it, but it's unlikely they'll hurry to do so while there's still lots of players with bonus Signature status.
----
			Keep the Nbits off of sub. Just give LOPP Coins MMMM shinies	
----
			
It is pretty common that coins come with F2P subs, that or discounts.  
I wonder if the people who are against an amount of coins being included would be against a percent discount on store purchases for the same reason? A discount is probably better for the company as it provides incentive for both subscriptions AND further ncoin purchases. 
 
I think I would actually prefer a store discount if it applied to both ncoins and omnibits. 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It is pretty common that coins come with F2P subs, that or discounts.  
I wonder if the people who are against an amount of coins being included would be against a percent discount on store purchases for the same reason? A discount is probably better for the company as it provides incentive for both subscriptions AND further ncoin purchases. 
 
I think I would actually prefer a store discount if it applied to both ncoins and omnibits. 
----
			
From my own experience spending money in online games, I find that being given a modest quantity of the store coin will tempt me to spend more than I'd spend if I got none.  You get used to interacting with the store as a means of acquiring things, and you get comfortable spending the currency, and then when you've got almost enough to get that shiny tchotchke you want, it's easy to just click the button and spend money on game currency.  If I'm never brought to that point of almost having enough, it's a lot easier for me to decide not to get the thing, or to wait until I can get it through gameplay.
 
There's a lot less executive function required to finish paying for something with real money than there is to buy something with real money.  CRB needs to start using that to get money out of people, because low executive function is a common trait in their target market demographic.
			
				
	Edited October 15, 2015 by Shendorion	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
From my own experience spending money in online games, I find that being given a modest quantity of the store coin will tempt me to spend more than I'd spend if I got none.  You get used to interacting with the store as a means of acquiring things, and you get comfortable spending the currency, and then when you've got almost enough to get that shiny tchotchke you want, it's easy to just click the button and spend money on game currency.  If I'm never brought to that point of almost having enough, it's a lot easier for me to decide not to get the thing, or to wait until I can get it through gameplay.
----
			
FYI,
 
Small victory on overall costs:
 
Rune Sets
Removed the cost from destroying slotted runes. 
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/143265-game-update-notes-15-october-2015/	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Removed the cost from destroying slotted runes.
----
			Honestly, I'd rather see things like character slots completely unlocked than a monthly stipend. People have been talking a lot about SWTOR but seem to be glossing over the fact that a sub in SWTOR unlocks every single character related store item that isn't cosmetic - character slots, unlimited raiding, PvP, the ability to sprint before level 16, actions bars, and a bunch of other stuff I can't remember off the top of my head so it's easier just to link http://www.swtor.com/free/features	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Honestly, I'd rather see things like character slots completely unlocked than a monthly stipend. People have been talking a lot about SWTOR but seem to be glossing over the fact that a sub in SWTOR unlocks every single character related store item that isn't cosmetic - character slots, unlimited raiding, PvP, the ability to sprint before level 16, actions bars, and a bunch of other stuff I can't remember off the top of my head so it's easier just to link http://www.swtor.com/free/features
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Honestly, I'd rather see things like character slots completely unlocked than a monthly stipend. People have been talking a lot about SWTOR but seem to be glossing over the fact that a sub in SWTOR unlocks every single character related store item that isn't cosmetic - character slots, unlimited raiding, PvP, the ability to sprint before level 16, actions bars, and a bunch of other stuff I can't remember off the top of my head so it's easier just to link http://www.swtor.com/free/features
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Here is the thing. After subscribing for so long, you begin to overpay for features like this that can be unlocked with a one time fee from the store. Thats why "Bonuses" like this dont seem worth it in the long run.
 
For instance. Lets say a sub gave you 12 characters per server (thats 24 characters total). F2P players get 2 per server to start. That means they would need to buy 20 more slots to equal that of a subscriber (if subs got 12 per server). For 15 a month, you can get 1200 NCoin. 1 character slot costs 230 NCoin. That means you can buy at least 5 slots per month doing this. After 4 months of paying 15 dollars for NCoin, you will have unlocked all 20 additional character slots. At this point, as a non-sub, you are now saving money compared to a subscriber who still must pay 15 a month for the 20 additional slots, for EVERY month beyond this. 
 
If you compare someone who subs for a year, vs someone who buys 15 dollars or NCoin every month for a year, the things you can end up buying as a non-sub, is vastly more in value than the subscriber gets. Thats 14,400 NCoin. Which can get you ALL of the things listed below:
 
- 20 Additional character slots (equal to what game box owners get - currently subs dont get extra character slots)
- 10 additonal costume slots (8 more than a game box owner - subs dont get extra)
- +200 commodity order limts (170 more than a subscriber)
- +200 Auction and bids limit (170 more than a subscriber)
- +2000 more Decor limit (1000 more than a game box owner - subs dont get extra)
 
All for 10140 Ncoin. Leaving you 4260 NCoin to spend on things like Mini pets, Mounts, Fortune Coins, Service Tokens and lockbox keys. You could buy:
 
- 53 Fortune Coins or...
- 35 Service Tokens or...
- 53 Lockbox Keys or...
- 4 of the 5 existing mounts in the store (with NCoin left over to spare).
 
So after a year of paying the SAME amount of money as a subscriber pays, you end up with quite a bit more value for your money. The only thing you dont get, are the xp/rep/currency buffs, and the ability to form guilds and such. (whoopie!) And if you didnt care about mounts, mini pets or coins and tokens, you could always spend that 4260 NCoin on the stores Xp/currency/Rep flasks instead.
 
The value for the subscription just isnt worth it in comparison
 
The subscription should offer things that you CANT get in the store. I dont mean pay 2 win items like uber weapons and armor. Look at Swtor. Subs get a 12x XP bonus to story missions. This is simply amazing. Its adds a TON of value to the 15 dollars you are spending each month. This is in addition to the nomal bonus % xp buff, money buff, and rep buff you get for subscribing too.
 
Regardless, the thing that needs to be focused on by Carbine is increasing the value of the Subscription. If the value of buying $15 of NCoin each month far exceeds what you get with the 15 a month sub, then their marketing team is doing it wrong. Plain and simple.
----
			Any movement or word from any of the Powers that Be on this topic.  Given the excellent points Zewks made, there's really little to no reason to stay subscribed if you can get just as many benefits (or very nearly) for a 1 time fee.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
this is the only mmo i play that i do not sub to. normally, like many have said, the sub is worth it to get the little extras that f2p don't. the benefits to a sub here just aren't worth it to me. still having fun with the game, though
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The only thing you dont get, are the xp/rep/currency buffs, and the ability to form guilds and such. (whoopee!)
 
----
			10p got me a one month sub, im ok with that and don't mind if they don't give anything for the store. I like the boosted xp and I have already made half my p back within 2 or 3 days of getting the credd just running some pvp for a few hours at night.	
----
			
I do hope that Carbine folks are listening.  It's great to have lots of people on the server.  Please don't kill the golden goose just when you got it back onto your farm.
 
Either that, or just plainly state that you do not want people to subscribe; you'd prefer everyone to simply use NCoin.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
10p got me a one month sub, im ok with that and don't mind if they don't give anything for the store. I like the boosted xp and I have already made half my p back within 2 or 3 days of getting the credd just running some pvp for a few hours at night.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Which could be problematic in itself.  CREDD is supposed to be an alternate source of revenue of income for Wildstar, plus a way to combat gold spammers.  The less CREDD goes for in the game, the less likely people are going to be to buy CREDD with real money.  10pp comes out to about $1 for 50 gold.  And, of course, the less people that see Signature as being worth the money, the less people you have interested in buying CREDD... soo... people start looking for alternate ways of spending cash to get platinum.
----
			
Huh, I didn't even look at that. I assumed they'd do the logical thing and make the sig account apply the coins. Kinda not sad I unsubbed today since I'm tired of year 2 of release state MMO.
 
Now, what exactly is the point of sig account then?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Huh, I didn't even look at that. I assumed they'd do the logical thing and make the sig account apply the coins. Kinda not sad I unsubbed today since I'm tired of year 2 of release state MMO.
 
Now, what exactly is the point of sig account then?
----
			
Pretty much the only things even remotely appealing to me with Signature is mining bonus and xp bonus, that is pretty much it!
 
Even if it raised the weekly cap on the bonus Omnibits it would be a bit more interesting.	
----
			
FWIW, I've definitely been enjoying the boost to XP/Gold/Glory (I'm not sure they advertised that glory would get the bonus), and with the current value of glory (given how rare fragments are), it's definitely been worth it for me. I imagine they'll eventually fix fragments to where glory isn't as valuable, though.
 
I do feel like doubling the omnibit cap for subscribers would make the sub feel worth it for me. The funny thing is, I probably wouldn't even hit the second cap, but I know I'd go into it a ways.	
----
			
Just thought of this,
Why not give an exstra professon to signiture members. I would like that. Easy update for signiture members that still keeps the cash shop cash. IDK just a though? whould it be game braking?Also some unrelated math:
Pre F2P
Mr amazing farms and gets a month of play. and gets everything
 
After F2P ( non current soft cap )
Mr amazing farms and makes his 120 soft cap limit (lets say one day of hardcore farming)
Mr amazing has 800 or so bits at the end of the month.
Mr amazing buy a CREDD and can almost buy a mount.
 
is the mount really worth more then full month?
 
After F2p (with increased soft cap) 
Mr amazing farms and makes his 200 soft cap limit (lets say one day light farming)
Mr amazing has 800 + or - 100 or so bits at the end of the month.
Mr amazing buys a CREDD and can a mount.
Mr amazing is happy. but still had to work for his mount.
			
				
	Edited October 21, 2015 by KMPDigital	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
my eyes are bleeding .... but # agree
----
			
Any update? or should i cancel my subscription?
Subscription feels so unrewarding.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It is pretty common that coins come with F2P subs, that or discounts. 
I wonder if the people who are against an amount of coins being included would be against a percent discount on store purchases for the same reason? A discount is probably better for the company as it provides incentive for both subscriptions AND further ncoin purchases. 
 
I think I would actually prefer a store discount if it applied to both ncoins and omnibits.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I dont. It all comes from a false statement. Signature is not what unlocks 12 slots. They are unlocked permanently for box purchasers regardless if you subscribe or not now. Subscriptions grants other bonuses. Currency gains are imho most important.
 
I agree though that it is not enough. There should be some pocket money. Free omni bits or something like that at the beggining of subscribed each month.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is how Rift's system works. The discount is pretty nice, and I never really felt the need for a stipend because of it. Granted, Rift also gave me a ridiculous amount of credits as compensation for the year+ of sub I bought with Stormtalon Legion, and that lasted me for quite a while. XD I was surprised when Carbine didn't comp people with no in or omnibits for sub time.
----
			Keep the petition going! 
			
				
	Edited November 17, 2015 by Gigaslave	
----
			Wish they'd add some coins already...	
----
			Until the devs let us know what they are up to, ive canceled both my sub as well as my wifes. Ill continue to support carbine via NCoin every so often, but if they want a monthly sub from us, then it needs to be worth the cost (competitive with other mmorpgs on the market)	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
A rift sub also gives you weekly lockboxes which hold a store credit value of over 500 credits. That, in a sense, is a stipend. Just not one that you can use to buy whatever you want.
 
Carbine could do similar, and give subscribers a free Fortune Coin (for a fortune chest) each week. 
----
			Got around to cancelling my sub today.  I'll renew it if it becomes at all worthwhile.	
----
			
I just canceled and there was no room for feedback, so here works I guess.
 
Long and short of it, I wanted to get something from the cash shop, but there's no way that I'm going to buy NCCoin on top of a $15/month commitment. So I'll just buy coin on the occasion that something catches my eye. That's likely to be somewhere around $10 a few times a year.
 
If I were to get $15 worth of cash shop coin for my subscription instead of experience/gold boosts (the only sub perks relevant to me), I'd have no trouble continuing the monthly payment.
 
Could have made $180/year off of me if NCcoin were part of the sub, but, looking at my spending in other games, instead you'll see maaaaybe $50/year. I love the game and would support it more, but sub + cash shop is too much.	
----
			
Agreed 100%, a subscription should include a monthly sum of NCoin or, at the very least, a cash shop discount.
 
As it stands, I don't really see how the current benefits of signature status are worth 15$/month.	
----
			
Not sure Ncoin is the answer, as that can be spent anywhere, though it's an interesting idea for those who may play other NCsoft F2P titles.
 
That said, if they want to keep the money in Wildstar, then Omnibits is the way to go for sure as nearly everything on the shop can be bought with them. Discounts on NCoin prices would be a great tandem approach too. 50% off the NCoin prices would go a long way with people I think.	
----
			Still unsubbed and I am afraid no changes are planned. They simply try get away with this theft of 15 bucks per month wiht nothing while I as a player see no reason in giving it.	
----
			
Theft?
 
Get real.
 
I don't like the sub model any more than y'all do, but no one freaking forced you to keep subscribing.
 
Theft. Good grief. Go lay down.	
----
			Agreed.	
----
			Tex, calm yourself down. xD It's a turn of phrase to describe a deal that is really not at all in the purchaser's favor.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Tex, calm yourself down. xD It's a turn of phrase to describe a deal that is really not at all in the purchaser's favor.
----
			
Omnibits don't serve to replace an nCoin stipend with a subscription.  That's kinda silly to even say right, since both subscribers and non subscribers can generate Omnibits at the same rate.  
 
In my opinion they should just give subscribers an increased omnibit cap.  Let us accrue something like 180/week instead of 120.  It increases the value of the T5 (or T6 or whatever) Omnibit generation bonus and would get your world pop even higher since folks would be running vets/doing dailies/raiding/etc to hit that cap.
 
I think the biggest thing is I'm not sure the subscription really is worth 15$.  Maybe if you play a ton of alts, I guess.  They could also look at a subscription model that only applies to like one character and is 7-10$.  Kinda like what Final Fantasy ARR does.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah, it... is? I've heard it used that way countless times IRL. "Wow, that product's so expensive but terrible, selling it is practically theft."
----
			Yeah, it... is? I've heard it used that way countless times IRL. "Wow, that product's so expensive but terrible, selling it is practically theft."	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Tex, calm yourself down. xD It's a turn of phrase to describe a deal that is really not at all in the purchaser's favor.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
no, it isn't.
 
i have heard "wow, that's a steal" and such, and even "that's a ripoff", but if you buy the ripoff and call them thieves, then you are nuts.
----
			Same, I'm cancelling my sub until it becomes worth having. I might spend some money on the store for things that aren't a ripoff, but I would much prefer it if the sub came with actual perks and some store currency. I want to give you money, but not like this.	
----
			
Definitely agree. Right now Wildstar's F2P model is SO generous, there's not really a solid benefit to subscribing. The benefits for subscribing are nice, but not worth $15 a month, or at least not for me.
 
Now if it came with a $5 stipend of NCoins, and/or if subscribers got an exclusive costume piece at the beginning of every month (see Champions Online)? That'd be wOrth it to me.	
----
			I think the term you guys are looking for is "Highway Robbery" (Excessive profit or advantage derived from a business transaction.) In any case, The signature is only worth it for your first level to 50, mostly the first month, after that, it's pretty worthless. I hope they change it to something more worthwhile.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think the term you guys are looking for is "Highway Robbery" (Excessive profit or advantage derived from a business transaction.) In any case, The signature is only worth it for your first level to 50, mostly the first month, after that, it's pretty worthless. I hope they change it to something more worthwhile.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
For once, I'm going to post something that doesn't really contribute to the conversation...because I stopped reading this thread as soon as I read this.
 
SWTOR is a good game but it's f2p model is the worst.  That and Lord of the Rings Online both sit on my list of F2P models that royally *cupcake* me off and they both have a monthly coin reward.  The cost for the items in the shop are high as hell as well.
 
Want a game with a good f2p model with an optional subscription service?  Check out RIFT.  They don't have a monthly allotment of coins...and by check it out, I don't mean go play it because I want you here playing this game.  Instead, I mean just look at this link to make your comparisons.  This is their subscription matrix to back up my information.  http://www.trionworlds.com/rift/en/store/#become-patron
 
Also, to note, there is a loyalty reward where it increases omnibit drop by 100%. 
----
			And they just keep dropping all these mounts in the store...Why not you know, make them an award for actually doing stuff in-game.Or give us subs more Omnibits or Ncoins because subbing the game is actually a really stupid thing to do right now, it's just not worth it.  	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And they just keep dropping all these mounts in the store...
Why not you know, make them an award for actually doing stuff in-game.
 
 
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And they just keep dropping all these mounts in the store...
Why not you know, make them an award for actually doing stuff in-game.
 
Or give us subs more Omnibits or Ncoins because subbing the game is actually a really stupid thing to do right now, it's just not worth it. 
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
New to F2P? You can forget that. All the best new stuff to come out, for the remainder of the life of this game, will be "CASH-SHOP ONLY EXCLUSIVE LIMITED TIME ONLY SINGLE CHARACTER UNLOCKS."
 
In that way, they will:
 
1. Instill a sense of urgency (LIMITED TIME!!!)
2. Instill a sense of pride (EXCLUSIVE!!!!)
3. Make you want to buy three of them (SINGLE CHARACTER!!!)
4. Focus on actually making money (CASH-SHOP ONLY!!!)
 
It's a win-win-win-win for them, and a lose-lose-lose-lose for anyone with a lick of sense.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Ofcourse it's a win win win for them but it's still a **** move to do so. As they also said they wouldn't put everything up in their cashshop, plently would come for us to earn in-game aswell. 
----
			
Well, after one week of f2p patch ppl already opened threads asking them to add new stuff in the store.
Also it's just normal they add new stuff every one a while (every other week they said) because different players like different kind of costumes/mounts. For example I didn't like any mount/costume/pet there was in the store up to yesterday so I wasn't even bothering opening the ingame store, it was kind of unactractive to me. I saved my Omnibits and i've got more than enough to buy the new Trask mount which looks pretty good in my opinion. Some other players though might not like it and we'll still have nothing to buy in the store. 
They add new things to accomodate everyone tastes, people that feel they need every mount/costume in the store obviously will have to pay real cash for them.
 
I'll buy Trusk mount now (although it won't be taken away any time) and will have plenty of Omni Bits by the time Christmas event ends in case I want to buy something event related, isn't that a good timing?
 
I'll keep subbing because i want to support the game, otherwise i wouldn't be giving them any ca$h since I ain't much into store stuff.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's just happy-talk meant to assuage angsty customers, to make us feel better about supporting them in their time of need.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Heya everyone! Thanks so much for your feedback on adding Ncoins to Signature subscriptions. We've sent this on up the pipeline to the team that handles that and will let you know if that gets changed later on.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This was over a month ago, and it's a wrong conclusion to draw from this discussion. Adding just an Ncoin stipend with the sub doesn't solve the issue that signature is still not worth having. Say you include a 5$ value of Ncoins with signature - spending 15$ on it is still not worth it, because you'd be paying 15$ to receive 5$ value. It just makes no sense.
----
			
Personally, I'm wrestling with dropping my subscription and just using the money to buy Omni-bits. Between work and school, most of my game play is logging in to RP. So most of the subscription benefits are useless to me. The only one I actually use is being able to be in more circles. So I'm faced with a choice. Pay 15$ for social benefits (More circle chat) and then another 10-20$ for new shiny costumes and dye. Or, drop the subscription and the extra circle chat, and put that money toward dyes and shiny costumes. Without Omni-bits coming along with the subscription, the choice needs to be made. 15$ for extra circles isn't too appealing.
 
Businesswise, it would seem wiser to encourage a subscription. While saving the F2P option for those that can't afford it but still provide a service to the game by populating it and giving subscribers someone to play with. Rather than creating a system where not paying a subscription is a desirable option. Subscription should be the goal of the company. It's steady revenue. It takes more effort to walk away from. And it pays the devs bills whether the player wants a specific item or not.
 
Perhaps a third option without the exp and Omni-bit bonus while retaining the social bonuses and the money for Omni-bits? Or, just provide Omni-bits with a subscription if the subscribers Omni-bits/CRED are below a certain level. This way, those that can benefit from the Omni-bit bonus get to while those that can't benefit from it aren't forced to make a choice.
			
				
	Edited November 20, 2015 by Bytek	
----
			Personally I love the system just the way it is. Every time I pay something its for a thing I want. For me its mostly costume things. I care little for Chat and guild things as I try to stay 100% pugger.	
----
			
I do think we need to be cautious about making the subscription too good, because then we end up with a situation where a player feels like they're obligated to subscribe for certain things while still being gouged with a f2p-style cash shop. I bring this up in part because of observing how NCSoft is handling BnS's premium membership: they've restricted the use of the wardrobe system completely to subscribing players, and you lose access to all of your premium rank bonuses if you unsubscribe (similar to losing Cosmic Point bonuses if you unsub). So yeah, let's try and find something that's maybe not quite so extreme. I caution because BnS is another NCSoft game and well... they're a horrid company.
 
I like the suggestion some have brought up of either increasing or removing the omnibit cap for subscribers. They could also do something like Rift's daily and weekly patron log-in rewards, which are... significantly more substantial than the silly little log-in rewards we get now. Oh goody, 5g! A soulbound dye! 5 service tokens! >_<	
----
			
Sadly I dont see this trend to be changed soon. I loved Wildtar more when it was P2P. Because the model now is actually sole purpose of money making. Subscription is there as a leftover, probably to earn few extra bucks but it seems to me that even devs are looking down on it, considering it something minor, something that is not really counted for to be main source of profit.
 
Sad thing is taht those benefits that actually matter are unlocked via cosmic rewards (circles, guilds, pvp teams etc.) and rest benefits of subscription is a joke. While some benefits are nice to have, they are far from essential.
 
And while other games solving this issue by throwing some pocket money each month, which in fact is of a little value (usually less then the cheapest currnecy buy option) it actually matters for subscribers in a long shot - after few months of being loyal, they can buy what they want to.
 
Why Wildstar has no such option is beyond me.
 
We have omnibits ffs, just give us a bunch, raise soft cap for subscribers or do something like that. I want to throw my monthly fee at you dammit crabine! I want to have reason!	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You get: more exp, more rep more gold, more prestige, higher ratio for omni and I don't know what else.
You basically get more gold to buy your ingame CREED and keep subbing for free, doesn't it sound sweet?
 
Maybe they could remove omni bits soft cap for sub, that would make it more appealing without giving away stuff for free (maybe might into an issue with gold seller)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Sadly I dont see this trend to be changed soon. I loved Wildtar more when it was P2P. Because the model now is actually sole purpose of money making. Subscription is there as a leftover, probably to earn few extra bucks but it seems to me that even devs are looking down on it, considering it something minor, something that is not really counted for to be main source of profit.
 
Sad thing is taht those benefits that actually matter are unlocked via cosmic rewards (circles, guilds, pvp teams etc.) and rest benefits of subscription is a joke. While some benefits are nice to have, they are far from essential.
 
And while other games solving this issue by throwing some pocket money each month, which in fact is of a little value (usually less then the cheapest currnecy buy option) it actually matters for subscribers in a long shot - after few months of being loyal, they can buy what they want to.
 
Why Wildstar has no such option is beyond me.
 
We have omnibits ffs, just give us a bunch, raise soft cap for subscribers or do something like that. I want to throw my monthly fee at you dammit crabine! I want to have reason!
----
			I am a litle amazed by why ppl flame the best f2p system the world have seen. Come On guys. ..give carbine the Credit for this one and concentrate the flaming on the slow content development	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I am a litle amazed by why ppl flame the best f2p system the world have seen. Come On guys. ..give carbine the Credit for this one and concentrate the flaming on the slow content development
----