117681-credd-expiry-why-massive-turn-off-to-potential-returners

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Wildstar will be suffering, and continue to suffer from even more players giving up on it for the sake of other games or just due to current well-acknowledged issues with the game.
 
In addition, players stop playing video games for significant amounts of time often due to real life issues, including holidays.
 
So, why given the enormously common situations above do CREDD contracts expire?! (also there is no point talking about the distinction between CREDD purchased in-game or unredeemed CREDD purchased by a given individual, because it is all the same CREDD).
 
Many players thinking of returning to Wildstar would never consider it if they have to resubscribe on an account that they have already heavily invested in and perhaps had stored CREDD.
 
Talk about shooting your own foot off just as a major competitor and others release brand new content...	
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			What potential returner couldn't log in once every month (or even once every 3 months!) for a few seconds just to be counted as active? And if you're gone for 3 months of longer, what's so bad with paying the sub fee once to get back into the game?As to why? Makes counting actually active subscribers easier for one thing.	
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What potential returner couldn't log in once every month (or even once every 3 months!) for a few seconds just to be counted as active? 
 
And if you're gone for 3 months of longer, what's so bad with paying the sub fee once to get back into the game?
 
As to why? Makes counting actually active subscribers easier for one thing.
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1. They wouldn't be a "returner" if they didn't unsub.
 
2. It's a barrier to return. Someone is much more likely to consider checking out a new content patch or whatever if they can make use of CREDD they may have bought prior to leaving, instead of dropping $15 on a maybe. It's still money in Carbine's pocket, and it helps bring people back.
 
3. That's a crap "why". They're practically deleting people's money. That's just not okay.
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Why would someone who has unsubbed from the game be able to log in? CREDD does not consume automatically as far as I know, and why would someone want to use up CREDD when they're not playing the game?
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You have to unsub for CREDD to take effect. So you literally need to log in once every 3 months for you to be considered active and for CREDD to be consumed. Can you seriously not log in once every 3 months? If you have CREDD for months (or even years as some players do), logging in every couple of months is completely and totally free. As CREDD consumes automatically for up to 3 months of inactivity. 
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			It's the same scam as retail stores selling gift cards. Expiring balances are pure profit.	
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It's the same scam as retail stores selling gift cards.
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That's how CREDD works. If you have a sub set up, the CREDD won't consume at all. So if you're leaving the game and you don't want your CREDD to consume, then sell it and keep the platinum.
 
Either way you need to log in once every 3 months for you to be able to continue living off CREDD.
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.................
I have a 1 month recurring sub.
I would've paid another 15 dollars on the 15th of November.
I consumed CREDD today in-game.
Now I will have to pay 15 dollars again on December 15th if I don't buy CREDD again.
 
Sooo...
Wat?
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What potential returner couldn't log in once every month (or even once every 3 months!) for a few seconds just to be counted as active? 
 
And if you're gone for 3 months of longer, what's so bad with paying the sub fee once to get back into the game?
 
As to why? Makes counting actually active subscribers easier for one thing.
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			See credd as a (gift) voucher. (Gift) Vouchers most often have an expiry date. That is it.	
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Anything to encourage people to return must be done.
 
I agree with OP. Make it lifetime. Who really cares, you got the $20.00 for the CREDD why does it matter when someone chooses to cash it in?	
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			Economic reasons. If too much CREDD is in the game, players might be able to dump down prices and get play time for less than the "actual value" or the "aimed value by NCSoft/Carbine". I guess.	
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See credd as a (gift) voucher. (Gift) Vouchers most often have an expiry date. That is it.
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I just tried to find a comparison that could have made sense. The question now could be, is credd really a voucher and are these laws international. For both I could think of "no". Laws maybe apply to their respective country and we all know, companies become very creative these days.
Everything with a big maybe.	
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			Simple thing I could say about this is to point at Plex in eve online. Lasts forever, not a problem, and they are crazy about their market stuff.	
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I kind of meant auto consume. So if you wait past the sub date without consuming it, it will take money instead of auto eating it. I have some people in my guild living without a subscription set up :I
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			Unused CREDD is outstanding debt on their books. I can totally see how eliminating it over time is more valuable than the potential value of CREDD-funded returnees over 3 months later.	
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As far as I recall, if you have CREDD on your inactive account, you will be prompted to use it as soon as you log in into the game. However, I have not tried this myself, so I'm mostly working on hearsay and an old topic somewhere here in the forums where it was stated (and discussed) briefly.
 
With that said, I do not like that CREDD has an expiration date. It means I can't indefinitely save CREDD on my account for one of those rainy months when my credit card is charged late, or if I run out of money for whatever reason but want to keep playing.	
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Unused CREDD is outstanding debt on their books. I can totally see how eliminating it over time is more valuable than the potential value of CREDD-funded returnees over 3 months later.
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Having CREDD expire is actually MORE likely to make players return.
 
If a player had CREDD that never expired on their account, they could park Wildstar forever, just in case they might one day return. 
 
With expiring CREDD, they have to log in (consuming one CREDD) once every three months (hardly onerous) to reset the expiry. Once they log in, they'll probably take a look around, and might start playing again.	
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Having CREDD expire is actually MORE likely to make players return.
 
If a player had CREDD that never expired on their account, they could park Wildstar forever, just in case they might one day return. 
 
With expiring CREDD, they have to log in (consuming one CREDD) once every three months (hardly onerous) to reset the expiry. Once they log in, they'll probably take a look around, and might start playing again.
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CREDD should NEVER expire, PERIOD. What a STUPID policy. One of the reasons I started playing was due to the CREDD system and I had/have been playing EVE Online which uses PLEX, so it seemed similar in that eventually I could just buy CREDD and stop paying real money for my sub. If I decide to stop playing for 3 months because of a bug that won't be fixed until the next drop (which sounds like the norm) then if I lose the CREDD I paid for in-game and have to spend real money again, I WILL NOT RETURN!!!
 
PLEX NEVER EXPIRES, and if someone returns to EVE Online with an inactive account, they can enable a "Hours for PLEX" feature to get 4 hours to log into the game and activate the PLEX to resubscribe or even buy one in-game and then activate it	
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CREDD should NEVER expire, PERIOD. What a STUPID policy. One of the reasons I started playing was due to the CREDD system and I had/have been playing EVE Online which uses PLEX, so it seemed similar in that eventually I could just buy CREDD and stop paying real money for my sub. If I decide to stop playing for 3 months because of a bug that won't be fixed until the next drop (which sounds like the norm) then if I lose the CREDD I paid for in-game and have to spend real money again, I WILL NOT RETURN!!!
 
PLEX NEVER EXPIRES, and if someone returns to EVE Online with an inactive account, they can enable a "Hours for PLEX" feature to get 4 hours to log into the game and activate the PLEX to resubscribe or even buy one in-game and then activate it
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Having CREDD expire is actually MORE likely to make players return.
 
If a player had CREDD that never expired on their account, they could park Wildstar forever, just in case they might one day return. 
 
With expiring CREDD, they have to log in (consuming one CREDD) once every three months (hardly onerous) to reset the expiry. Once they log in, they'll probably take a look around, and might start playing again.
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It's tough to say.
 
I think it is kind of dumb it expires, since it IS purchased with real life money... You could compare it to buying apples at the market.. You're buying it with money, knowing they'll go bad if you don't eat them within a few weeks.
But... CREDD is virtual. Definitely debatable.
 
The only thing I can say is... Don't buy TOO much CREDD without knowing how long you'll be playing the game. If something comes up IRL, all you have to do is re-sell it and just use the platinum later when you return to the game. Platinum doesn't expire.
 
 
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Having CREDD expire is actually MORE likely to make players return.
 
If a player had CREDD that never expired on their account, they could park Wildstar forever, just in case they might one day return. 
 
With expiring CREDD, they have to log in (consuming one CREDD) once every three months (hardly onerous) to reset the expiry. Once they log in, they'll probably take a look around, and might start playing again.
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Having CREDD expire is actually MORE likely to make players return.
 
If a player had CREDD that never expired on their account, they could park Wildstar forever, just in case they might one day return. 
 
With expiring CREDD, they have to log in (consuming one CREDD) once every three months (hardly onerous) to reset the expiry. Once they log in, they'll probably take a look around, and might start playing again.
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because it's so hard to log in once every 3 months?
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No, because you have to have an active subscription to log in.  Let's say your have 3  CREDD on your account.  You get tired of the game and unsub.  Six months later you want to come back.  Well, you can but you'll have to pay the sub fee because all 3 of your CREDD will have expired if you didn't log in and burn one within 90 days of unsubbing.
 
NC Soft got paid $20 for the CREDD.  It should never expire.  Even if you sold the 3 CREDD and kept the plat on your account you would still have to eat a month to log in and buy the CREDD back.
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erm no, you don't have to have an active sub. If you have no sub set up CREDD auto consumes. Up until 3 months. Then CREDD on inactive accounts expires. 
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Uh, no it doesn't.  If your time expires with no sub your account goes inactive.  You get prompted to use one if you fire up the client.
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I'm not paying for my sub with CREDD, so I have no first-hand understanding of how people actually cash it in to pay for sub-time. I'm just going on what other people here have said.
 
Personally, I'm much less fond of the three month expiry window now that the game is only being updated in three-month increments instead of the one month window where that policy was put in place. That expiry window is now the same as the interval between updates. If an update ends up getting pushed back a month, people who through chew content and wait for the next update to log in again can't do that with a CREDD-based sub. That seems likely to be a fair number of people.
 
That being said, there IS a clear reason to have an expiry date, and that's to keep people from stockpiling tons of CREDD to keep supplies low and demand high. CREDD isn't meant to be your "walk away if the game goes through a rough patch and come back later for free" voucher, nor is it intended to be a mechanism by which marketeer players can wedge themselves between the CREDD buyer and the CREDD seller and stick their hand out for a transaction fee. It's meant to let people who want to keep playing earn it through plat rather than cash, by forking over that plat in return for someone else paying for their sub time in cash.
 
As for the legality of it, I suspect that the key distinction between a store gift card and CREDD is that CREDD is a one-way transaction in the game's ToS. When you buy a gift card for x dollars worth of products in a real-world store, that money is being spent to obtain a commitment to products that have a recoverable cash value. There is no legit method to convert CREDD back to real-world cash; once you spend your cash on CREDD not only is the cash gone but so is the potential to recover that cash legitimately. Once it's been purchased, CREDD literally has no value outside of the game's currency.	
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Has anyone actually tested to see if the CREDD actually expire? The Knowledge Base and original documentation about CREDD all say "may expire" not "does expire" so ... yeah. They might be covering their butt for the future if there was ever a need to wipe unused CREDD from really old inactive accounts. Why they chose 3 months, I don't know (seems arbitrarily short). But unless it's proved that an unused CREDD disappears on an inactive account after 3 months, isn't all this anger, you know, unnecessary?
Carbine staff input would, obviously, be best in this case to squash rumors, or at least explain why expiration is so short (it should last at least a year, at least).	
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You all should state what your actually talking about:
 
1. CREDD bought for $20 but not sold in game yet will expire after 3 months of inactivity.
 
2. CREDD bought in game for plat never expires if not redeemed. You can activate it at any time after your sub expires.
 
Those are my understandings.	
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Uh, no it doesn't.  If your time expires with no sub your account goes inactive.  You get prompted to use one if you fire up the client.
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			Hmm, the stockpiled CREDD FAQ answer seems to throw #2 in doubt also. Carbine themselves aren't really clear about which type of CREDD they're talking about.	
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You all should state what your actually talking about:
 
1. CREDD bought for $20 but not sold in game yet will expire after 3 months of inactivity.
 
2. CREDD bought in game for plat never expires if not redeemed. You can activate it at any time after your sub expires.
 
Those are my understandings.
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This is incorrect. CREDD of any type expires because it is all the same CREDD. CREDD in-game does not exist unless someone purchased it and claimed it.
 
Used CREDD is CREDD already applied to your game time. Obviously, this will not expire, because it is already converted to game time which has a fixed end date, i.e. the CREDD currency no longer exists.
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so essentially all you have to do is log in once monthly? -.-
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 (or use CREDD) within 90 days of my subscription ending to reset the "90 day" timer for CREDD.
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Just a side thought...
 
As the development path has changed from a monthly to a quarterly(please correct me if I'm wrong). I think that the 3 month expiration originally under that goal was fine as you'd be able to try out a drop well within 3 months. However with the new design path perhaps if they actually do expire(iI'm not entirely certain that they do as other posters ahve questioned it as well) extending the expiration period accordingly would be fitting if Carbine is dead set on having this.
 
Perhaps having it extended to 5 or 6, which I feel would be ample time for someone to hear of a drop and go "oh hey, i should hop back in and try it with me CREDD"
 
 
Personally I don't think it'd make much difference if the CREDD doesn't expire, because it genuinely comes down to the individual genuinely wanting to resub/retry the game. I think if I had to choose removing the expiration is better since the player doesn't fel pressured to do it and it becomes more of an inviting thing than a "try it now before its too late even though the content is permanently there or rather should be permanently there!". Although not a direct and exact situation, I myself try GW2 after their major updates as there is no money wall blocking me from doing so and I would try WoW after their major updates when they would offer free "hey we've had some pretty big changes guy, come back for a few days!"	
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What potential returner couldn't log in once every month (or even once every 3 months!) for a few seconds just to be counted as active? 
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Let me describe, well, me.
 
I played the game for a while.  Paid for one month, got CREDD, kept playing, did that a few times, and came to think the game in its current state wasn't for me.
 
So I got one more CREDD and didn't redeem it.  I was aware of the "expiration date" though.
 
Three months were almost up, and I reinstalled the client, and logged in, and used the CREDD to get another month of gameplay.
 
If the game I logged into had sucked me in, I'd have started playing more.
 
It didn't.  I didn't think it would, the described changes didn't sound up my alley, but this was my "last chance" to try it, so I used the CREDD anyway.
 
If CREDD didn't have an expiration date, I wouldn't have activated it yet.  I'd have waited for patch notes or gossip or something that made it sound like the game would be more appealing to me, personally.  But because CREDD has an expiration date, if I wanted to try the game without spending more money, I could not wait for an announcement like that.  I had to activate my last CREDD on a schedule, and I've done so.
 
It's almost used up.  I haven't earned another.  I'm not going to give the game another try after this one (and this try didn't suck me back in).
 
I had one CREDD banked, so they got one chance to suck me back in.  They forced me to use it after three months instead of "once the game started to sound interesting again".  That last chance is now used up, and, well... good luck to you all.
 
If CREDD didn't ever expire, I might have become a paying "returnee" in a year, but now that won't happen.
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if you thought that the game is not for you, well, it's core is not going to change. Despite Guild Wars 2 not having a pay wall I'm simply not returning. Because the game doesn't feel like it's for me now. And I don't think that I'll ever return. And if something actually sounds like it would suck you in, why not to pay a sub? If World of Warcraft released something really interesting not only would I have to pay a sub, but also buy the expansions that I missed. 
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The game's not for me, but IMHO not because of its core.  I can imagine changes that would make the game "for me".
 
And if something sounded like it might suck me back in, why not pay a sub?  Because the folks running the game squandered my trust, and I'm not going to throw money away.  I'm not going to give them money unless they can demonstrate to me that it's improved.
 
Letting me sit on my CREDD until it sounded interesting would have done that.  A free demo version that, say, lasts for a week (like the trial accounts) that you can use once you've been inactive for a while would be another way to do that.
 
And if WoW released something really interesting, I would not have to pay to just "taste test" it.  For one thing, they've got free low-level accounts that let you log in and do some things, and while they're limited, they don't require an invite or code to obtain and they do not ever, ever expire.  Plus, you do not need an active paying subscription to log in on their test servers (which is why I have tried the WoW 6.X code even though I haven't paid for WoW in ages).
 
But really, it comes down to this: you can theorize all you want, but the fact is, due to CREDD expiring, I'm actually done with WildStar now.  If CREDD never expired, there'd still be a chance I'd come back to it, but since CREDD expires, there isn't.
 
You can think I'm an idiot.  That's fine.  I don't care.  But if there are a lot of folks like me, unreasonable idiots though we may be, if there are enough others like me, then having CREDD expire is simply a poor business decision for Carbine.
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Then perhaps what we should ask for is free trials, not changes to CREDD policy?
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and why exactly can't a person going on a hiatus do this? 
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Here is the issue:
I have 1 CREDD on my account which I bought at the AH.
My subscription ends at the end of the month, after which I will be on hiatus from the game for 6 months.
Once my subscription ends, my account becomes inactive.
90 days later, unless I reactivate my account, my CREDD will expire.
In order to reactivate my account, I have to spend the CREDD or $15
So, my option is to spend money on a 1-month sub to keep the CREDD that I bought off the AH (so I wouldn't have to spend money on a 1-month sub), or use up the CREDD and have to pay a 1-month sub when I come back to the game.
I'm honestly not sure if we're operating on a fundamentally different understanding of how this works, or if you're just dead-set on defending the system as it stands.
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So, you think the right solution would be "if you unsub, all the resources you've sunk into CREDD should be confiscated, even though they would have entitled you to more gameplay, but as a gesture of not-complete-dickheadness, we'll also give out free trials"?
 
Earlier I mentioned that the devs have lost my trust.  One of the ways they've done that is by expiring CREDD.  They took my money (either via direct purchase or from the person who got my platinum), and it was supposed to entitle me to a month of gameplay.  Making what was purchased ("entitlement to a month of gameplay") vanish into thin air is the sort of thing that undermines my trust.
 
(I can't see any good reason for CREDD to expire, myself.  Just poor rationalizations.)
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It prevents hoarding and market manipulation.
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So, you think the right solution would be "if you unsub, all the resources you've sunk into CREDD should be confiscated, even though they would have entitled you to more gameplay, but as a gesture of not-complete-dickheadness, we'll also give out free trials"?
 
Earlier I mentioned that the devs have lost my trust.  One of the ways they've done that is by expiring CREDD.  They took my money (either via direct purchase or from the person who got my platinum), and it was supposed to entitle me to a month of gameplay.  Making what was purchased ("entitlement to a month of gameplay") vanish into thin air is the sort of thing that undermines my trust.
 
(I can't see any good reason for CREDD to expire, myself.  Just poor rationalizations.)
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Using one Credd every 90 days - even when you know that you are not going to play at all - is nothing less than annoying. I understand why does Credd need to expire, but in my opinion Credd shouldn't be just deleted, it should be sold for the highest buy order and turned into plat. This way players wouldn't lose all the value.
 
Also there should be a feature to reactive the subscription by buying Credd when logging in with an inactive account for plat. This would help to get few players back, because using in-game cash - that you could use for nothing anyway - hurts less than paying another month of subscription.	
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Well it is a sub game. If we wanted to argue about that the game should cost nothing to return to, then we might as well ask "why is this not free to play?".
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According to the business model, both CREDD and subscription are viable options for playing the game. The whole point of CREDD is so people can play the game without paying more than the box price. And it doesn't "cost nothing to return to". Someone already spent $20 on that CREDD so Carbine already got the fee for that 30 days of play time.
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The good reason for CREDD to expire is that you bought it with an expiration date. 
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because it's so hard to log in once every 3 months?
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Or is it just that you made a deal that had terms and restrictions, and now that they're coming into effect, you don't want to abide by them?
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also there is no point talking about the distinction between CREDD purchased in-game or unredeemed CREDD purchased by a given individual, because it is all the same CREDD
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Some in-game stuff expires, deal with it.
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Well for example all of gift vouchers have an expiry date. 
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No. Oh no! What now? :P
 
CREDD represents real money. It should not expire.
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My game time is bought with real money. I suppose that should never expire either?
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Without the three month restriction, I would have held onto that CREDD until updates/gossip made the game sound like it might have pulled me back in, and the odds that I'd have once again given money to Carbine would have been a great deal higher.
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If you're buying CREDD for $20, what you're buying isn't 30 days of play time. You're buying plat. You could buy 30 days of play time for $15 whenever you choose to, so you'd have to be a bit of a chump to spend $20 for 30 days of play time with a 3 month expiry date.
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because it's so hard to log in once every 3 months?
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I can't say I'm personally invested in the expiration date of CREDD.  If it expires, it expires.  If Carbine/NCSoft want to make it expire, they may have a great reason for doing that.
 
That said, I think they should let us know why it expires.  I certainly can't personally think of a reason why it should.  If there is a reason, it escapes me.  And, if there's no reason why it should, it might be prudent at this time not to do it.
 
I find myself largely ambivalent to the matter, really.  I suppose I'm mildly interested in why it has an expiration date and why it doesn't, for example, simply activate on the account it's on once it expires if it should expire at all.	
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			I have a pretty big question. Has anyone actually seen a CREDD expire? I've been curious if the expiration statement is just for legal purposes, but it won't actually expire.	
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I have a pretty big question. Has anyone actually seen a CREDD expire? I've been curious if the expiration statement is just for legal purposes, but it won't actually expire.
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Sure, sure. Let someone else be the guinea pig and throw a potential $20 down the drain. :D
Actually it's more than that, because they had to pay another $15 to resub just to post the test results.	
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			Yeah, I'm not gonna go silent just because maybe Carbine... was lying? Or something? No, I'm going to take what they say at face value and protest that.	
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I am 100% certain that you know that my point is that Carbine has already made money off the sale of CREDD, not that the people using CREDD are the ones purchasing it from Carbine.
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CREDD represents real money. It should not expire.
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I don't think this is true. Can you turn CREDD back into money through any method that doesn't break ToS? If the answer is no, then CREDD ceases to represent money the instant you buy it.
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Buying CRED isn't buying plat it's buying tradable game time. If I were to go out but a prepaid card for any other sub game and gave it to a friend as a gift, or traded it for in game stuff that card isn't going to expire no matter how long it takes them to finally use it. It doesn't make sense for CRED to expire whether you sell it or not its unactive game time that has been bought the money used will go towards devolopment regardless of who uses it. 
 
Using CRED a month after purchase or a year after purchase isn't getting to log in for free as money was spent for that CRED to be put into the game regardless of who bought it its still game time that was paid for.	
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Buying CRED isn't buying plat it's buying tradable game time..
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{loads and loads of stuff}
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You turn it into money when you use it to get yourself a month's subscription. That represents $15 to the user that they would have otherwise had to pay outright.
 
Your protests really don't make any sense to me.
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You're wrong there. Buying CREDD is buying plat. That's exactly what it is. The *only* reason anyone buys CREDD is to get some plat. That's it.
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C.R.E.D.D is an in-game account item, that when consumed, extends an accounts subscription by 30 days.
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Abuse Architect profession
Buy 50 CREDDs at 2 plat each in the first month
Quit
Come back for Drop 3
All CREDDs gone
EL-OH-EL
 
Sounds good to me :lol: :lol:	
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Not in the US.  California, where Carbine's offices are, is particularly touchy about this.
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I can't really blame Carbine for having an expiration date on CREDD. Expired CREDD is pure profit for them as they still earn 20$ from it, while not having to supply anyone with game time. While it may not be consumer friendly then its a pure win for Carbine and while changing it would be a consumer friendly choice, then its sadly bad for business.
 
I'm not all against having an expiration date on CREDD though, but considering how long breaks mmo players take from their favorite mmo, then i think 3 months is so short that it will frequently be an issue for some players. I honestly don't get why coming back to the game three months later is totally fine but 4-5 months is absurd. I would have preferred if CREDD had a more consumer friendly expiration date like 6-12 months. This would give way more freedom to the player to chose when a player would love to return.
 
Ultimately though, then free trials would be be preferred. CREDD is only working for those who already got it. Maybe offer 1-2 weeks free game time for members would be a way for 3-6 months to use whenever they want, would help getting over the initial pay wall that every sub based mmo suffers from.	
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Yeah, we have a military member in our guild. Last time I checked after he was gone for a year he had no problems resubbing when he is back :D
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Many military members cancel subs while they are deployed to areas they won't have internet access. Why pay when you literally have no chance to play? These deployments can last more than 12 months. So yes, it can be "so hard" to log in once every 3 months to keep that CREDD active. Since games are notorious for inflation, the smart consumer would purchase a CREDD before leaving, as the price will surely rise while they are gone, while their plat store would not.
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I still don't see how Carbine implementing the system that they announced is a "massive turn off to potential returners". Someone's decision to return to the game is far more likely to be related to whether they think they will enjoy playing it again than it is to be linked to CREDD expiring after 3 months of inactivity like they knew it was always going to.
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I asked this earlier and was ignored =P So i'm gonna go out on a limb and say... nope. ;)
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Actually they are directly affecting the revenue stream because they are the reason someone spends money on credd in the first place, without them there'd be no reason to buy credd which would mean carbine is getting less money. That's the reason carbine sells it, essentially its a more expensive subscription. They aren't getting free game time by someone paying for it for them whether they buy it for plat or get it as a gift as the credd wasn't free it costs 20 dollars.
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Has anyone actually tested to see if the CREDD actually expire? The Knowledge Base and original documentation about CREDD all say "may expire" not "does expire" so ... yeah. They might be covering their butt for the future if there was ever a need to wipe unused CREDD from really old inactive accounts. Why they chose 3 months, I don't know (seems arbitrarily short). But unless it's proved that an unused CREDD disappears on an inactive account after 3 months, isn't all this anger, you know, unnecessary?
Carbine staff input would, obviously, be best in this case to squash rumors, or at least explain why expiration is so short (it should last at least a year, at least).
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Many people have left the game because the content didn't live up to expectations and are waiting for a reason to come back. They may be more willing to come back and give the game a try again if they can use their CREDD instead of having to pay money. Having CREDD not expire is more of an incentive to return than having it expire. Having it expire is a disincentive to people who are on the fence about the game and the company. It's as simple as that.
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I can't really blame Carbine for having an expiration date on CREDD. Expired CREDD is pure profit for them as they still earn 20$ from it, while not having to supply anyone with game time. While it may not be consumer friendly then its a pure win for Carbine and while changing it would be a consumer friendly choice, then its sadly bad for business.
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Yeah, no else even talking about it.
 
So, basically this argument is about a so far fictional event. Which is worth discussing, sure, but I'd really like to see if someone actually does have their CREDD expire after 3 months.
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Carbine could've just as easily put in a button that says "10 plat, $20" and cut the CREDD market out altogether--the obvious reason why they don't do it that way is that the people who sell plat and buy CREDD with it do have value to Carbine. But the value that they provide is simply not as plat creators--Carbine doesn't need them for that, it can create an infinite amount of plat without them. The value that those people provide is participation. They show up on a regular basis and do enough stuff to keep their CREDD alive.
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You don't roll over the customer without damn good reason if you want to keep customers (or bring them back).
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It doesn't matter how much you want credd and plat to be the same thing it's not, a shoe supplier doesn't buy money from producers they buy shoes which they can use to make money. 
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Sorry, how is the shoe supplier relevant? He's using cash to buy supplies (shoes) which he adds value to (through his distribution network) to make a product (shoes that are easily available to consumers). That value allows him to convert the product back into more cash than he used to buy the supplies.
 
When you buy CREDD with cash, there is no legitimate mechanism to ever reconvert that CREDD back into cash. The CREDD is literally the same thing as whatever you do with it after that, and the only thing you can do with it that doesn't amount to you burning 5 bucks in the street is sell it for plat.
 
Well, that's not quite true, actually. You could do something that amounts to you burning 20 bucks in the street, by buying CREDD with cash and then letting your subscription lapse and not spending the CREDD for three months after that.
 
How Carbine ends up catching the blame for that, I'm still not clear on. It's like blaming a grocer when you buy an apple and let it rot on your kitchen counter.
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You have to unsub for CREDD to take effect. So you literally need to log in once every 3 months for you to be considered active and for CREDD to be consumed. Can you seriously not log in once every 3 months? If you have CREDD for months (or even years as some players do), logging in every couple of months is completely and totally free. As CREDD consumes automatically for up to 3 months of inactivity. 
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Carbine is the producer of credd, those selling the credd on the market are the suppliers so once again credd is not the equivalent to buying plat. Carbine does not give you plat, it does not guarantee you'll get anything, all the do is supply you with a resource in which you can make plat.
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Having to use your CREDD to prevent it expiring is an incentive to use the CREDD.
 
Never having to use the CREDD because it never expired would provide no incentive to use it.
 
It's as simple as that.
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I can always 
 
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This is what I'm hearing from the pro-expiration date side:
 
"[cabinet has been debating putting water on the plants instead of Brawndo]Pvt. Joe Bowers: What *are* these electrolytes? Do you even know?Secretary of State: They're... what they use to make Brawndo!Pvt. Joe Bowers: But *why* do they use them to make Brawndo?Secretary of Defense: [raises hand after a pause] Because Brawndo's got electrolytes."
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The only incentive to use CREDD is that it gives you a month of game time. Why does Carbine need to destroy it after three months? The limi is an arbitrary restrction that serves no practical or theoretical purpose. It's just there because someone didn't think about it through properly.I'll also mention that forcing people into using their CREDD does NOT assure us they will keep playing. They could use it before it expires, log in for a bit and then they will either leave again (because, for example, the issues that made them cancel their subscription haven't been fixed, or whatever) or not play enough because they were saving that CREDD for when they had time (maybe they have a really busy job or something). What you achieve is to *cupcake* them off and make sure that some of them will not bother with CREDD again, or even with trying the game at all. Why bother? They can't save it for when they feel the game has had enough time to improve unless that ammount of time is less than three months. And thanks to the 'newish' quarterly drops, we know that won't be enough time.
 
So why would I bother with CREDD, now? Better to pay it monthly with the credit card. It will be cheaper if I ever decide to drop the game that way. No wasted CREDD on my account.	
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Well, it would be a terrible shame if people playing the game at no continuing cash expense to themselves had to log in long enough to earn one CREDD once every three months. That would REALLY *cupcake* me off if I was playing a subscription-based game without paying a subscription fee.
 
I might just ragequit a game that was SO unreasonable.
 
I have to admit, if that's where it is--if we're so desperate for players that we need to try to cling to keep the ones that won't even play the game enough to waive the subscription fee--then this is the comment that wins the thread.
 
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If we wanted to argue about that the game should cost nothing to return to, then we might as well ask "why is this not free to play?".
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Well, it would be a terrible shame if people playing the game at no continuing cash expense to themselves had to log in long enough to earn one CREDD once every three months. That would REALLY *cupcake* me off if I was playing a subscription-based game without paying a subscription fee.
 
I might just ragequit a game that was SO unreasonable.
 
I have to admit, if that's where it is--if we're so desperate for players that we need to try to cling to keep the ones that won't even play the game enough to waive the subscription fee--then this is the comment that wins the thread.
 
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I can always 
 
 
I can always mention that the point of it is so that people who buy CREDD with plat show up and play the game on a regular basis again if you'd like.
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Well, it would be a terrible shame if people playing the game at no continuing cash expense to themselves had to log in long enough to earn one CREDD once every three months. That would REALLY *cupcake* me off if I was playing a subscription-based game without paying a subscription fee.
 
 
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I asked this earlier and was ignored =P So i'm gonna go out on a limb and say... nope. ;)
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I'm not sure i agree with this.
 
While CREDD can be achieved with in-game plat, then it only exist because someone at some point decided to pay 20$ for it. By the very definition of it then its not free since CREDD cannot exist without paying for it with real money, despite who the actual consumer of it is. It's entire existence is based on a real life purchase not matter the intent of that purchase.
 
Or let me rephrase this, while the returning player indeed can return for free within a three months break, then he is only able to do so because someone already paid for his subscription. He may not be paying himself, since someone else payed for it then its technically not a free month of game time.
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And I'll just quote Naunet:
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Other MMOs that utilize a similar system (PLEX, chronoscrolls - well, back when TERA actually had chronoscrolls) do not put an expiration date on those items because it is absolutely needlessly screwing the customer.
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The only incentive to use CREDD is that it gives you a month of game time. Why does Carbine need to destroy it after three months? The limi is an arbitrary restrction that serves no practical or theoretical purpose. It's just there because someone didn't think about it through properly.
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The expiration date isn't stated very clearly when you purchase credd with plat. Where exactly is it?
 
There's zero reason for credd to expire. I agree with having a limit (and I believe there is already a limit) so you can't hoard hundreds of them to resell at a later date and throw the whole economy off. Credd expiring is about as dumb an idea as your gear expiring after being inactive over 3 months.	
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The expiration date isn't stated very clearly when you purchase credd with plat. Where exactly is it?
 
There's zero reason for credd to expire. I agree with having a limit (and I believe there is already a limit) so you can't hoard hundreds of them to resell at a later date and throw the whole economy off. Credd expiring is about as dumb an idea as your gear expiring after being inactive over 3 months.
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First of all for the millionth time CREDD is NOT the same thing as platinum. "C.R.E.D.D is an in-game account item that, when consumed, extends an account's subscription by 30 days."  This is what Carbine has stated and defined as CREDD, this is what they have sold you, this is what you re getting, nowhere do they promise anyone will get anymore plat out of this exchange. They never introduce more plat into the game, when you buy this you are not getting plat, ad some random guy getting game time because Carbine is nice like that, you have C.R.E.E.D that's all you got that's what you paid for. You can't go to traders and say well I'm sorry protostar I don't have plat on me but you can have this C.R.E.D.D they wont take it they aren't interested in it You can't take it to the auction house see a new shiny sword and try and throw that C.R.E.D.D at it it's not platinum the auction house won't have your business. You get plat FROM other players, you DO NOT pay Carine $20 for any plat you get, you pay them FOR an item that is valuble in other players eye's and is worth paying plat for. If I go out a buy an xbox then I will have bought an Xbox regardless of whether my intentions were to throw it at George Bush's taint, or make a nice fondue out of it, that doesn't transform that Xbox into being a baseball or edible. 
 
And your apple analogy is just plain silly , why do apples expire? Because of nature are you telling me that somehow nature has gotten into Carbines programming ability and made C.R.E.D.D. a victim of time? I am 100% certain that if that grocery store could sell apples that don't expire they would, they then wouldn't have to worry about losing sales due to apples dying on them. So no one is going to give crap to a grocery store because apples have lifespans. The grocery store isn't setting that life span. 
 
Also the only person that is really told is the person that initially buys the C.R.E.D.D the person where it is nice and clearly stated on the buy page however that doesn't matter as that most likely won't be the person who uses it in the end. When you are buying it with plat however it is never stated that the thing you are buying with your C.R.E.D.D will expire at any given time and its hard to blame them for not knowing they have no reason to visit the buy C.R.E.D.D. page the tutorials have already told them what C.R.E.D.D is and how they can get it with in game platinum they are at no fault for not knowing that carbine has an expiration date on something that has no reason to have an expiration date.	
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It's stated explicitly right here on the webpage very helpfully called "Business Model", which is a pretty obvious place to go if you want to know what the game's business model is.
 
On that page, it's part of the FAQ, under the FAQ header titled "Can I stockpile CREDD stored on my account?" 
 
I'd personally prefer to see that changed to "Can I keep CREDD stored on my account?" just to make it completely obvious, but it seems clear enough that if you want to know the details of storing CREDD instead of just using it, this is the place to find out.
 
Since that same part of the FAQ discusses the cap on the number of CREDD that any one account can have--which you rightly noted in your post--am I right in thinking that you had already found it yourself before you came asking where it was?
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When a customer buys something, and they get exactly what they paid for, they are not being "needlessly screwed".
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I know about the stockpile limit because I've heard people talking about it in my guild and in chat. Besides the initial purchase of the game, I've been using credd for my sub, and I've never looked at that FAQ page until you linked it to me. If someone were to buy credd with platinum, they'd never see that FAQ page and wouldn't really know about the 3 months expiration. Is there some in game hint that tells you it expires when you first buy credd with plat?
 
I've still not seen anyone give a good reason why credd needs to expire. 
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A company stating they will do X doesn't necessarily make it right.
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And this is exactly what I mean. By using the phrase "call out", there is an implication that you've caught Carbine doing something they shouldn't have, or that you're uncovering something Carbine has hidden.
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As for the "no good reason" meme that's now recurring through this thread, I take it that "because you need to actually pay to be here: either by cash or by showing up and playing the game on a regular basis" isn't a good one?
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No it doesn't. It means exactly what I said. If I see something I don't agree with, I will speak up.
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A company stating they will do X doesn't necessarily make it right. They don't get a free pass from judgement just because they inform people; we are allowed to call out practices we disagree with.
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			The people that leave that phone service however don't have a voucher saying that they have an extra month with them that has already been paid for that's redeemable at any time these players do. The deal is a person pays $20 for tradable game time that's what is being offered that is being sold. What is actually the same thing you described would be a normal subscriber dropping his monthly $15 subscription then coming back with no game time and complaining that he has no game time even though he paid some money in the past. Just because you don't like the idea of someone playing to pay for the game doesn't mean their business is any less valuable to Carbine as anyone else's.	
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The people that leave that phone service however don't have a voucher saying that they have an extra month with them that has already been paid for that's redeemable at any time these players do. The deal is a person pays $20 for tradable game time that's what is being offered that is being sold. What is actually the same thing you described would be a normal subscriber dropping his monthly $15 subscription then coming back with no game time and complaining that he has no game time even though he paid some money in the past. Just because you don't like the idea of someone playing to pay for the game doesn't mean their business is any less valuable to Carbine as anyone else's.
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No they don't. The voucher that they buy says "this voucher can either be resold for plat or cashed in for a month of game access, and is redeemable until 3 months after the holder's account goes inactive." That is what they paid for. The voucher, with all the terms and restrictions that apply to it. They did not buy a month of game access, because they do not need to use it for that purpose. They can sell it to someone else for plat, and then the duration of time that the voucher stays in effect depends on the person that they sold it to and not them.
 
I get that you don't like it. I get that you don't see the reason for it. But it is still true whether you like it or not. It's true whether you see the reason for it or not.
 
The deal is for an extra month of game time as long as you keep playing. That other deal that you seem to believe a CREDD purchaser gets is not and has never been the deal. Carbine is not at fault if you enter into a deal but want a different one.
 
That thing that was never offered to you, that you didn't buy, and that you now want to have even though you didn't buy it is what the term "Free Lunch" refers to in the phrase "There is no free lunch".
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Regardless of whether they needed a month of game time or not that IS what they bought that is what C.R.E.D.D. is.
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