123910-b2p-sub-credd-suggestion-page-4

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Nope.
Delivering such updates was a promise made by a company that is relatively new in the development and running of such MMO's.
Any person with experience in game development or general IT development told when this was announced, that it was an extremely bold statement, and unsure whether this was being pulled off.
 
Under no condition is Carbine required to drop the subscription fee for changing their delivery rate.
There's not a single contract signed between them and you stating they have to deliver every month.
This was an idealistic promise at best, which was already being questioned during beta if that was even possible, and sceptically accepted by a few.
 
The only thing they "must" do, is keep developing and delivering content in the pace it's going now.
And preferably of the same quality if not better.
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WS Devs aren't new in mmo's. We all know their past experience in other mmo's and games in general. Anyway, following your opinion i guess everyone who advertises his future mmo, can say that updates would come in less than monthly basis. And when this never happens HEY its ok. It doesn't matter you ppl bought our game depending on our advertisement for updates. Just keep up the good work and pay the sub...
Sry man but its not like this.
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WS Devs aren't new in mmo's. We all know their past experience in other mmo's and games in general. Anyway, following your opinion i guess everyone who advertises his future mmo, can say that updates would come in less than monthly basis. And when this never happens HEY its ok. It doesn't matter you ppl bought our game depending on our advertisement for updates. Just keep up the good work and pay the sub...
Sry man but its not like this.
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WS Devs aren't new in mmo's. We all know their past experience in other mmo's and games in general. Anyway, following your opinion i guess everyone who advertises his future mmo, can say that updates would come in less than monthly basis. And when this never happens HEY its ok. It doesn't matter you ppl bought our game depending on our advertisement for updates. Just keep up the good work and pay the sub...
Sry man but its not like this.
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I m a customer and my job is to protect my and other customer rights, not Carbines or NCSoft ones. If you were a NCSoft employ i would give you a point about your opinions, but sadly not if you are a customer (are you?).
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.. so they can make money, which enables them to continue making content because they'll continue being employed?
 
You cannot be that dense.  I refuse to believe you think that we should get all this shit for free and ignore the fact that there are real human beings working to create this game.
 
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You know what if you give me $10 i will give you a cookie a day hand delivered.... seems like it takes me a lot of time to travel to your place so it's now 1 cookie each week okay, same price sounds good right? =)
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You know what if you give me $10 i will give you a cookie a day hand delivered.... seems like it takes me a lot of time to travel to your place so it's now 1 cookie each week okay, same price sounds good right? =)
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it's exactly like this.
It's called realism. Claiming something is one thing. Getting people to believe it is another.
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No, I'm sorry, I'm not going to play in to that.  I'm not going to get in a discussion with anyone about why Carbine charges money for their *cupcake*ing product.
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It's tough when simple metaphors expose the flaws in your own logic, isn't it.
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No, it's tough when the metaphor is terrible and we should all *cupcake* know that a company needs money to run.
 
Are you going to contribute to the conversation, or are you going to keep posting quotes with one-liners that do nothing for the discussion?
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No, I'm sorry, I'm not going to play in to that.  I'm not going to get in a discussion with anyone about why Carbine charges money for their *cupcake*ing product.
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What else is there to say? You were presented with a clear source about the reasoning behind the sub fee, that promise was clearly redacted, and your response to that, in supreme irony, is to "be realistic and set your expectations." I really implore you to take that advice.
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But yeah for the low level zones, there is no reason to go back and actually interact with lower level players...
Maybe they should introduce drops that you need for crafting and such that you can only earn there or give you glory points at least for dungeons.
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Having forced downleveling (as in GW2, saw enough hilvl trolls killing everything in low zones just to mess with the rest) and scaling rewards is the way to help getting all zones to at least some level of population. Instant adventures like ones from RIFT are too good idea. And in both of those games almost all zones have healty number of players in them as all levels do have what to do in them.
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Wow, gratz to MadBlue for triggering a full-on circling of the wagons. Struck a nerve there, apparently.
 
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And a lot has changed since launch.  You'd be one seriously vindictive person if, after all of these admissions of mistakes and change in development focus, you still wanted the devs to give what they recognized couldn't be (or wasn't) delivered.
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Like i said I actually was in a queue for BnS Japan that went free to play last month so yes it might work and i was enver alone in lower level zones i always have 2 or 3 others around me leveling and in the cities on the maps there are 5+
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Watch it turn out that the reason that the content is so slow right now is cause they're trying to spread themselves to the point where all the shits ready to be pushed out the door on a bi/monthly schedule.
 
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We are getting a Nexus report before Drop 5, I've a bad feeling about this one.
 
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We actually had a circle on Luminai for newer players and too look for dungeons and things like that, it was quite successful and fun. We had a lot for those smaller things for the community there, Jabbit is really lacking :/
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Wow, gratz to MadBlue for triggering a full-on circling of the wagons. Struck a nerve there, apparently.
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Dear Olivar, like it or not, monthly content updates was the No1 reason for Carbine to show ppl they are not the same with other mmo's and under in what circumstances a sub has a point. They criticized other mmo's by saying its not fair (or something like that) paying a monthly sub and not getting monthly content. This was Carbine's and Devs moto.
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And this is exactly it. Yet people keep responding with explanations of why it's understandable that the devs had to change their release schedule and accusations that players should know better than to expect monthly content.
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...so they can make money, which enables them to continue making content because they'll continue being employed?
 
You cannot be that dense.  I refuse to believe you think that we should get all this shit for free and ignore the fact that there are real human beings working to create this game.
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It's a rhetorical question. Everyone understands why Carbine is still charging a sub.
 
People aren't wrong for continuing to sub, or for feeling that the game is worth a subscription price even without new monthly content. But people aren't wrong for feeling that they're being charged for services that were promised (as justification for the sub fee) and haven't been delivered, either.
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And that's their prerogative. I just can't understand why people are seriously asking why we're paying for the service of accessing Wildstar and acting like taking away that steady revenue will somehow make the game better. When you move from steady revenue to the chance of revenue, regardless of how many consumers you attract, you're taking a huge risk. Is a huge risk what this game needs right now on the cusp of major improvement? Hell no it's not, and people need to realize that.
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Nothing will save the game except bigger and better community -- this is not charity to support this is commercial product and we are free to request better service for our money or to just decide to give it to someone who gives a s*** about us, paying customers.
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So you're still going to hold it against them?
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"If this game goes F2P, I'm out"
"I'd rather this game close down than go F2P"
 
Yep. It's people who suggest a change of business model that will be happy with themselves if the game is closed down. :rolleyes:
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You're right.  It's not a charity.  You're paying the company to play content they've developed on their servers (which, by the way, cost money to run -- just like the company).
 
You know, I wonder how many people will be so happy with themselves if the game is closed down.  "I told you so," they'll shout proudly, not giving two shits about a brilliant game being dead or a studio of people out of work.
 
Jesus.
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You're right. It's not a charity. You're paying the company to play content they've developed on their servers (which, by the way, cost money to run -- just like the company).
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Want to help the game? Organize in game events, write FAQs (not min-max level cap stuff), crate newbie training guilds, try to make new (and returning) people feel welcome in the game, and above all try to point out all of the flaws that are preventing people sticking around so they can be (if possible) addressed. If I was less constrained with time nowdays I'd be doing at least some of that with my low 20ish characters because I like this game a lot and want to be as sucessfull as possible.
 
(this is not directed directly at you Vince, it's just general comment about community here)
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You really believe that, don't you?
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The problem is that no one bothers to see the other ones point of view and/or compromise.
 
Sure, people like me, Vicvan, and Evade, all find people and constantly have stuff to do all the time, but a lot of people don't, many of the players (mainly Dominion) who cannot find groups for shit, and even as Exiles, some people just want to LFG, which in the current state, isn't really easy. PvPers also have almost nothing, I think at most 5-7 games happening during prime time. Which is fine because we still get consistent bg pops. But it is still unsustainable for long. Carbine is gaining more players (IMO) and I think the game will grow over time, BUT, I have a suggestion. Before even considering a b2p/sub hybrid model. make quarterly subscription service for the 1 year anniversary, that or 3 months. Either or. basically same thing.
 
Lets say you sub on March 1rst, well, you will pay 15 or 30 (carbines choice) come May 1rst to continue the playtime, to add to this THERE WILL BE A CASH SHOP, but, it wouldn't be as important, they could simply sell pets that can also be obtainable in game, Mounts that can also be obtainable in game, and cosmetic armor and skins and the like. That way, they get a guaranteed 30 dollars every 3 months from a much larger population, as long as a much boosted numbers of lazy people buying pets, mounts, consumables, and skins.	
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Some overnight fairy-dust F2P/B2P BS isn't going to 'save' this game.  Supporting the devs will, in whatever fashion works best for them.
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Same discussion, two different conversations. Amazing.
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You're arguing something that doesn't exist (that subs will always absolutely see ads, which hasn't been how Hulu or Pandora have worked out), 
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Not sure why people are so against F2P with an optional sub, SWTOR does it damn well. Swtor definitely turned more profits going f2p as well.: http://www.pcgamer.com/swtors-average-monthly-revenue-has-doubled-since-going-f2p/
 
In the end we all just want more ppl to play with. This game is really solid mechanically, and if you get people to try it with f2p, i'm sure many would sub because of the quality of the game!	
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Not sure why people are so against F2P with an optional sub, SWTOR does it damn well. Swtor definitely turned more profits going f2p as well.: http://www.pcgamer.com/swtors-average-monthly-revenue-has-doubled-since-going-f2p/
 
In the end we all just want more ppl to play with. This game is really solid mechanically, and if you get people to try it with f2p, i'm sure many would sub because of the quality of the game!
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TenTonHAMMER
 
Why Isn't WildStar B2P? Come on, Carbine. What's taking so long?
 
http://www.tentonhammer.com/columns/persistent-worlds/why-isnt-wildstar-buy-play	
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TenTonHAMMER
 
Why Isn't WildStar B2P? Come on, Carbine. What's taking so long?
 
http://www.tentonhammer.com/columns/persistent-worlds/why-isnt-wildstar-buy-play
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B2P/F2P and the inevitable cash-shop has never done anything good for games. Having played Planetside 2, Guild Wars 2, Tera and Rift in the past as well as the "new" WoW with its tacked on ingame shop, I can't grasp on why people would prefer this to happen to games.
There's nothing more immersion breaking and annoying than cash shops and/or premium currencies in an MMO. It's a huge turn-off for me and I have never really spent a lot of time in these types of games.
 
I don't have a truckload of money to freely spend currently so I like knowing that, with as little as $15/month, I won't be locked out of any content and could do/achieve/earn anything I want. This games problem isn't a lack of available content, a too small of a game world, buggy patches or difficulty. It's the reputation its got and still getting from toxic non-users, off-site and everywhere you go everyone is trying to dissuade you from coming in contact with the game or its actual community based on asinine, ignorant and plain way out-dated information and most of the time, just gossip. This game deserves way better than f2p/b2p.
 
I would rather not see all my fun, new content locked behind unreasonably high pay walls, the game stemmed by just a couple people who have to be "conned" into buying overpriced items all the time, every month again and again and the game flooded with trolls and the like who just. don't. give. a. damn.	
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			For what did you need to buy in guild wars 2 to get access to something?	
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B2P/F2P and the inevitable cash-shop has never done anything good for games. Having played Planetside 2, Guild Wars 2, Tera and Rift in the past as well as the "new" WoW with its tacked on ingame shop, I can't grasp on why people would prefer this to happen to games.
There's nothing more immersion breaking and annoying than cash shops and/or premium currencies in an MMO. It's a huge turn-off for me and I have never really spent a lot of time in these types of games.
 
I don't have a truckload of money to freely spend currently so I like knowing that, with as little as $15/month, I won't be locked out of any content and could do/achieve/earn anything I want. This games problem isn't a lack of available content, a too small of a game world, buggy patches or difficulty. It's the reputation its got and still getting from toxic non-users, off-site and everywhere you go everyone is trying to dissuade you from coming in contact with the game or its actual community based on asinine, ignorant and plain way out-dated information and most of the time, just gossip. This game deserves way better than f2p/b2p.
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*By sub mmo's they mean even as a F2P/B2P with an optional sub.
 
*Source http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/07/19/world-of-warcraft-still-a-1b-powerhouse-even-as-subscription-mmos-decline/
 
Also for January 2015
 
http://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/us-digital-games-market/
 	
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huhehehehuhehuehehu
 
IMO -This game is only a sub payment to the new players, the people playing from start have enough CREDD to play for the next year/forever without paying again.
 
IMO - A lot of people advocating no F2P/B2P are already playing a F2P game with sub benefits and it is no wonder they want it to remain the same, they have their cake and are eating it too.
 
I fall into the above catagory, HOWEVER AND INSTEAD I want to play with other people and I am not really happy with the current population.
 
If its done right I would be happy with B2P with a cash shop. In GW2 everything in the cash shop is accessible even if you never pay with real life monies and nothing in there gives you an advantage, it just makes you FANCY.	
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I don't have any credd and since it's 25+ plat now i won't be getting anything either.
 
On different note just spend $55 in BnS japan... while I'm considering not spending any money anymore on Wildstar when my sub ends over 3 months...	
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@TS
Yea... NCSoft keeps the games that do well in Asia and ax the rest, my point proven.
 
Paying a sub allows me the security of knowing I'm doing my part to make sure the game i like to play doesn't "suffer".
 
Anything with a cash shop and unreliable income is "suffering", not the "community" as the official forums of any game proves communities are shit no matter what you do, but content delivery will become sparse IF it still continues at all(GW2 updates are complete shit or money gouging for the most part), money WILL become king and I'll end up having to spend more than the *cupcake* 15$ to play the damn thing, for a server intensive game(what with all the telegraphs and shit) quality will go down EVER so slightly and it will completely ruin the game, sure it'll still be "playable", but so is Sonic '06(and we all know how *cupcake*ed that is).
 
Quit yappin' about a "F2P being a shit community", every game community as a whole is shit, that's why we find that little chunk that we "square block+square hole" into.	
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@TS
Yea... NCSoft keeps the games that do well in Asia and ax the rest, my point proven.
 
Paying a sub allows me the security of knowing I'm doing my part to make sure the game i like to play doesn't "suffer".
 
Anything with a cash shop and unreliable income is "suffering", not the "community" as the official forums of any game proves communities are shit no matter what you do, but content delivery will become sparse IF it still continues at all(GW2 updates are complete shit or money gouging for the most part), money WILL become king and I'll end up having to spend more than the *cupcake* 15$ to play the damn thing, for a server intensive game(what with all the telegraphs and shit) quality will go down EVER so slightly and it will completely ruin the game, sure it'll still be "playable", but so is Sonic '06(and we all know how *cupcake*ed that is).
 
Quit yappin' about a "F2P being a shit community", every game community as a whole is shit, that's why we find that little chunk that we "square block+square hole" into.
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You didn't read the thread, did you...
Because if you did, then you should have noticed, that all your "if's" and "will's" were already proven to be wrong...
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spend more than the *cupcake* 15$ to play the damn thing, for a server intensive game(what with all the telegraphs and shit) quality will go down EVER so slightly and it will completely ruin the game, sure it'll still be "playable", but so is Sonic '06(and we all know how *cupcake*ed that is).
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...but content delivery will become sparse IF it still continues at all...
...money WILL become king and I'll end up having to spend more than the *cupcake* 15$ to play the damn thing...
 
 
...for a server intensive game(what with all the telegraphs and shit) quality will go down EVER so slightly and it will completely ruin the game, sure it'll still be "playable", but so is Sonic '06(and we all know how *cupcake*ed that is)...
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@TS
Yea... NCSoft keeps the games that do well in Asia and ax the rest, my point proven.
 
Paying a sub allows me the security of knowing I'm doing my part to make sure the game i like to play doesn't "suffer".
Anything with a cash shop and unreliable income is "suffering", not the "community" as the official forums of any game proves communities are shit no matter what you do, but content delivery will become sparse IF it still continues at all(GW2 updates are complete shit or money gouging for the most part), money WILL become king and I'll end up having to spend more than the *cupcake* 15$ to play the damn thing, for a server intensive game(what with all the telegraphs and shit) quality will go down EVER so slightly and it will completely ruin the game, sure it'll still be "playable", but so is Sonic '06(and we all know how *cupcake*ed that is).
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			Who said something about toxic players  :P	
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I don't have any credd and since it's 25+ plat now i won't be getting anything either.
 
On different note just spend $55 in BnS japan... while I'm considering not spending any money anymore on Wildstar when my sub ends over 3 months...
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Hulu subscribers I know tell me they still get the ads *shrugs* they just get to watch it earlier, to watch it for free you have to wait 8 days 
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TenTonHAMMER
 
Why Isn't WildStar B2P? Come on, Carbine. What's taking so long?
 
http://www.tentonhammer.com/columns/persistent-worlds/why-isnt-wildstar-buy-play
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TenTonHAMMER
 
Why Isn't WildStar B2P? Come on, Carbine. What's taking so long?
 
http://www.tentonhammer.com/columns/persistent-worlds/why-isnt-wildstar-buy-play
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Lewis is a nice guy. But that post is little more than a grossly misinformed opinionated rant, of which there are better on these very forums.
 
There is no consideration for business cases, and that piece get be summarily dismissed.
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That's the show running it and not Hulu. Unless the raiding aspect of the game is purchased and exclusively managed by Viacom, I think we'll be good. But hey, if there was an independent body that was doing nothing but bringing you high quality raids (or any content) independent of the game production itself and they monetized their own way, would you take an ad at the loading screen? I don't think any game company has thought about monetizing through subletting that way. Anyway, Hulu themselves don't run advertisements to monetize themselves for subscribers, though. They weren't showing ads when I was using it to watch Constantine, which was itself a brand new show at the time. I certainly didn't see any watching the entirety of their Dragnet backlog.
 
Ad money racks up quick, even over a few thousand viewers. If we're arguing financial inevitability, that'll come. It's already happening now in bigger ticket games. If player disgust isn't the issue and we'll take whatever brings in the population and the money, ads will come. They always will. If WoW inserts the option tomorrow and makes a few million more free players (and all their corresponding dollars), F2P would be gone in a year or two.
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Aaaand ... we are back to the meme that "free" players do not contribute anything to game, they are just bunch of commie freeloaders taking our games down ... erm ...
 
It was pointed enough times that no player playing the game is a "freeloder" -- yeah, one may not spend money directly but they will produce stuff (items, gold, population) for which in the end someone paid for -- think of it as a CREDD but just not as direct as that and more subtle and again if done correctly is a pure win-win situation, there is a sub if you like it, if not there are other options and we can all agree that having a choice is always a good thing, right?
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As soon one starts taking advertising money their customers become a product regardless what they are "producing" anymore. Ad revenue takes over and only thing that starts to matter to how much people they can push it leading to the reality/paparazzo/celebrity/click bait content junk we are seeing everywhere now -- cheap to produce, gets views advertising pays, f*** customer they are just numbers to get real money from ads. Not sure how that will translate in game (<insert celebrity> raid day maybe ;) ) but it will happen as there is no more reason to produce good engaging content when you can come up with low level cheap junk which can generate views (case in point: almost whole ad-supported internet).
 
OK, what we will care as we are paying and do not see ads ... well ... where those all ads will be shown, loading screens? Be prepared to see a lot of them then (just like annoying 15min cuts in tv shows for commercial breaks even when paying to not get ads they are still there). In game billboards? "Branded" cash shop outfits, ... most of them is impossible to hide from the players paying or not paying without making separate game or server.
 
AFAIK advertisers tried doing that to games but they are not compatible -- its our luck that numbers to get meaningful ad money are much better monetized via other models, do remember that every additional player adds to the cost of the game so with approx. $1 per player in total ad revenue (mobile statistic tho, but much bigger user base) there is no way they can just pay for them with ads, enter the cash shop again -- so why just not ditch ads and go straight to it -- P2P players can still ignore it (if done right) while F/B2P ones can make use if it.
 
In short, I really, really do not like what advertising made of TV shows, movies and all programming in general (even not directly visible) and I hope that games I play stay away from that hell hole.
 
BTW, I already have ad killer on my router (DNS level, content filtering, ...) so ... I can have my free playing without any ads -- yeah that will go well...
 
 
Aaaand ... we are back to the meme that "free" players do not contribute anything to game, they are just bunch of commie freeloaders taking our games down ... erm ...
 
It was pointed enough times that no player playing the game is a "freeloder" -- yeah, one may not spend money directly but they will produce stuff (items, gold, population) for which in the end someone paid for -- think of it as a CREDD but just not as direct as that and more subtle and again if done correctly is a pure win-win situation, there is a sub if you like it, if not there are other options and we can all agree that having a choice is always a good thing, right?
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How is this a win-win? That player is as mentioned a "freeloader", he does not bring a single dime into the game for the developers. They add population, sure. They consume gold ingame and items. But this does not bring the company any money whatsoever.
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They also produce gold, create items, buy (for gold) from paying customers, play with paying customers, ... all in all make game more enjoyable for the paying customers == more paying customers.
 
And regardless what anti-"freeloader" camp thinks -- there are no thing as pure F2P player, yeah there may be ones staying for a short time and leaving but ones who do like the game and wants to play it usually start paying one way or another (shop or sub).
 
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They also produce gold, create items, buy (for gold) from paying customers, play with paying customers, ... all in all make game more enjoyable for the paying customers == more paying customers.
 
And regardless what anti-"freeloader" camp thinks -- there are no thing as pure F2P player, yeah there may be ones staying for a short time and leaving but ones who do like the game and wants to play it usually start paying one way or another (shop or sub).
 
 
You are assuming "pure" F2P game not a hybrid model and also, as far I can see in the thread and OP idea was B2P + shop not F2P which is a totally different thing. And even if not paying anything, again, it makes game feel not empty and some percentage of them will start paying sub/whatever instead of all of them trying demo, seeing empty game and never coming back.
 
And it seems to me that we are missing another important point -- like it or not, there is no more "one MMORPG to rule them all" and game hopping is more common than not which leaves sub games in a very bad position.
 
I can hop in and play my GW2 chars whenever I like without limits (well I did missed one optional S2 episode but its just one time ~$5 to get it and account wide), RIFT -- same, TSW -- same (still missing some issues tho), TESO, TERA, SWTOR, LOTRO (yeah there are expansions and/or zone locks, but nobody argues that those should be free in the first place).
 
FFXIV, WoW, WS ... hmmm not so much so guess which one is more likely to go into gaming rotation than others?
 
And let's face it there are just 4 non-asian "stable" P2P games in last 13 years -- FFIX, FFXIV, WoW and EVE -- everyone else managed to last around year or two before switching -- WS simply do not have initial pull and/or resources behind it like those to get to the place those 4 are, good or bad if SWTOR did not managed with SW IP behind it (and bigger budget) who we are kidding here.
 
Yeah, there will be some niche games with a small (but big enough) population that can do P2P and survive but they are not ran on AAA budget and they do not have to return AAA level of investment in them.
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I suppose people are okay with that system as long as our only escape is to leave.  Me?  I'm certainly not playing a game where my 15 dollars a month doesn't cover the entirety of that month's development, and I'd really rather they spend time working on a multichoice group finder instead of an array of costumes.
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Your logic makes no sense. They are consuming items from paying customers, but this does not magically make more money.
The item has already been paid for by the source. Regardless how many times that item is being used, sold further ingame or traded, this does not bring in any additional money for the developer.
So our "freeloader" is consuming paid for items without having invested a single dollar/euro on the cash store. 
Sure he is spending his time, but unless he buys something, this is not bringing in any money.
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Like CREDD ?
 
About the report that is a mobile APP right what they are talking about?
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Drama much? :/
 
Funny thing is most things we are seeing and wanting in Wildstar is actually in most free to play games already... Wildstar is quite an old fashion game.
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Mobile game doesn't take away the fact it's a game with a F2P/B2P model.
All "rules" still apply. Just because it's mobile doesn't make it any less valid.
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The amount and type of content is different though.
Or are we also going to compare moba's shooters and mmo's now? :/
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Different audience and genre.
 
Also someone posted different numbers few pages back that looked at MMO's i believe.	
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B2P/F2P and the inevitable cash-shop has never done anything good for games. Having played Planetside 2, Guild Wars 2, Tera and Rift in the past as well as the "new" WoW with its tacked on ingame shop, I can't grasp on why people would prefer this to happen to games.
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Anyway
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/08/10/guild-wars-2-lead-producer-whiteside-believes-subscription-mmo-model-offers-huge-barrier-to-entry/
 
What do you see as the challenges when it comes to the MMO free-to-play space as we see more and more games coming out and consumers having more choices?
 
From a dev point of view, you have the irony of having a subscription-based model in MMOs that’s a very polarizing area financially for people playing. Research indicates that the average gamer can’t really support more than two subscriptions. I know for me, I don’t really want to keep more than one subscription going. That makes things massively competitive and really polarizes not just people’s attention, but also where they flock towards. The game that has the most people flocking towards it has the biggest income, and therefore it becomes a self-fulfilling cycle. The interesting and ironic thing about it is when you do more free-to-play games it becomes more competitive, which is even better for the consumer. But it means you have a lot more people having a lot more choices and a lot more eyes on your product. You get a lot more feedback from gamers, and so I do see it shifting more towards that. I don’t think it’s going to make it any easier for developers. I think it’s going to create new problems.
 
After the failure of Star Wars: The Old Republic, do you see room for another big subscription MMO in the future?
 
It’s pretty simple. The best quality MMO is going to pull customers towards it. Certainly a subscription model does offer a huge barrier to entry, so unless the game that comes out with the subscription is miles and eons above anything in the free-to-play or traditional purchased box space, then it’s going to struggle. At the end of the day, the players and the communities are going to go to the game that matters to them the most.	
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-snip-
 
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I remember a wildstar dev saying that you get real value for your subscription because we are going to do big monthly updates...
 
As for GW2, sure you must read it in the frame like you say it but still it's true.
Or do you want to argue the point it's hard to compete in the subscription market or that free to play games are easier accessible.	
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But not the point I am making. Even this CREDD makes money only once, not twice.
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What you mean twice?
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{| class="blockquote"
So the guy who was about to launch GW2 went on record to convince people that F2P isn't actually a giant advertisement scheme, and that 15 dollars a month is a huge barrier to entry?
 
And nobody's thinking they're being led around by the nose here?  At all?  I can't be the only one seeing the gaming population's leash getting jerked the last eight years or so, am I?  I mean, this is about as blatant as they could get.
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Anyway
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/08/10/guild-wars-2-lead-producer-whiteside-believes-subscription-mmo-model-offers-huge-barrier-to-entry/
 
What do you see as the challenges when it comes to the MMO free-to-play space as we see more and more games coming out and consumers having more choices?
 
From a dev point of view, you have the irony of having a subscription-based model in MMOs that’s a very polarizing area financially for people playing. Research indicates that the average gamer can’t really support more than two subscriptions. I know for me, I don’t really want to keep more than one subscription going. That makes things massively competitive and really polarizes not just people’s attention, but also where they flock towards. The game that has the most people flocking towards it has the biggest income, and therefore it becomes a self-fulfilling cycle. The interesting and ironic thing about it is when you do more free-to-play games it becomes more competitive, which is even better for the consumer. But it means you have a lot more people having a lot more choices and a lot more eyes on your product. You get a lot more feedback from gamers, and so I do see it shifting more towards that. I don’t think it’s going to make it any easier for developers. I think it’s going to create new problems.
 
After the failure of Star Wars: The Old Republic, do you see room for another big subscription MMO in the future?
 
It’s pretty simple. The best quality MMO is going to pull customers towards it. Certainly a subscription model does offer a huge barrier to entry, so unless the game that comes out with the subscription is miles and eons above anything in the free-to-play or traditional purchased box space, then it’s going to struggle. At the end of the day, the players and the communities are going to go to the game that matters to them the most.
 
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Wouldn't it be like that player is still part of the in game economic system and that the player invest his time in the game.
For example GW2 again, you can craft legendary weapons and you need to craft a few pieces for that as part of the item, so players with a lot of time can invest in making those items and selling them. Players who want that item can opt for the easy way to buy gems for real money and selling them for gold as such they are driving the economy.	
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Vic another for you
http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/21/guild-wars-2-interview-monetization/	
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{| class="blockquote"
I remember a wildstar dev saying that you get real value for your subscription because we are going to do big monthly updates...
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My god, its almost like a person releasing a F2P MMO would have a reason to discredit a sub based model. How devious
 
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It's all well but you know what the strange thing is.
Guild Wars 2 is running on the same server as Wildstar, Arenanet has over 250 employees, does anyone know how much Carbine have?
For convince lets say they cost the same, according to your reports and the things you say B2P does not earn a lot of money and not enough for development and only a very small portion actually buys things.
Strangely enough GW2 profit is 4 times (?) that of WS.... which is strange unless GW2 has 1000 times the player base maybe but then the server cost and all that will also be much larger.
 
So please try to explain how all gears makes this engine run according to you.	
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And I can tell you there are a lot of pure F2P players.
Around 55-60% of a player base spends almost no money on the game.
Gamesindustry.biz wrote an article about this last year: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-04-09-only-2-2-percent-of-free-to-play-users-ever-pay-report
"Whales" are what keeps games afloat, even if they spend insane amounts of money.
 
Yes I know this does not apply to every game out there.
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Being able to gift credd to a friend via their email would be sufficient to turn all of the millions of poor B2P/P2P players into wildstar lovers.
 
Think outside the box, people. We don't want this game to be like zynga, Comcast and credit card/cell phone companies, living off micro transactions.	
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<snip>
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{| class="blockquote"
It's all well but you know what the strange thing is.
Guild Wars 2 is running on the same server as Wildstar, Arenanet has over 250 employees, does anyone know how much Carbine have?
For convince lets say they cost the same, according to your reports and the things you say B2P does not earn a lot of money and not enough for development and only a very small portion actually buys things.
Strangely enough GW2 profit is 4 times that of WS.... which is strange unless GW2 has 1000 times the player base maybe but then the server cost and all that will also be much larger.
 
So please try to explain how all gears makes this engine run according to you.
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Do you really think that there is that much money in the ad based MMORPGs and no one whants to use it? I'm pretty sure that lots of them did the research, math and decided that is not worth it, not doing that before deciding on the payment model makes no bussines sense.
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Bro. Don't be mad over a video game, get glad  :lol:.
 
Can Wildstar effect you financially? Yay or nay.
 
Many of us simply want to keep Wildstar alive. Sadly, all your comments have nothing to do with it all except helping yourself to Wildstar content. 
 
I want access to ALL wildstar content for only $15! ME ME ME ME ME. JUST ME. I don't want a rich whale kid getting more access than I do cuz he has more money. 
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Yes, I really do think there is that much money and no one uses it.  I just proved there's that much money.  That's a penny per view per ad.  You don't think a company would pay a penny per view per ad?  They pay more on television.  That's a random homepage's money.  The Spoony Experiment makes that kind of money from Blip ads.  Hell, cut it in half!  Say half a penny, a currency denomination that doesn't exist.  Put a banner on the right and banner at the top, same equation.
 
I just did the math for you.  You saw it.  Tell me what's wrong with it.  And plenty of forms of entertainment use ads perfectly well to generate profit.  Few of them are going to have someone staring at a screen for 20-30 hours a month exclusively; that's why this works.  If it was TV, you have ads, but they're far longer and broken up further (because you can't hang a banner on the TV screen without chopping the shot, though this has also been done).  Same with radio.  But a video game?  You can be ticking money over by the minute.
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For what did you need to buy in guild wars 2 to get access to something?
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You couldn't be more wrong.
Take the trolling elsewhere. The grown ups are talking.
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Bro. Don't be mad over a video game, get glad  :lol:.
 
Can Wildstar effect you financially? Yay or nay.
 
Many of us simply want to keep Wildstar alive. Sadly, all your comments have nothing to do with it all except helping yourself to Wildstar content. 
 
I want access to ALL wildstar content for only $15! ME ME ME ME ME. JUST ME. I don't want a rich whale kid getting more access than I do cuz he has more money. 
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{| class="blockquote"
It's all well but you know what the strange thing is.
Guild Wars 2 is running on the same server as Wildstar, Arenanet has over 250 employees, does anyone know how much Carbine have?
For convince lets say they cost the same, according to your reports and the things you say B2P does not earn a lot of money and not enough for development and only a very small portion actually buys things.
Strangely enough GW2 profit is 4 times (?) that of WS.... which is strange unless GW2 has 1000 times the player base maybe but then the server cost and all that will also be much larger.
 
So please try to explain how all gears makes this engine run according to you.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yes, I really do think there is that much money and no one uses it.  I just proved there's that much money.  That's a penny per view per ad.  You don't think a company would pay a penny per view per ad?  They pay more on television.  That's a random homepage's money.  The Spoony Experiment makes that kind of money from Blip ads.  Hell, cut it in half!  Say half a penny, a currency denomination that doesn't exist.  Put a banner on the right and banner at the top, same equation.
 
I just did the math for you.  You saw it.  Tell me what's wrong with it.  And plenty of forms of entertainment use ads perfectly well to generate profit.  Few of them are going to have someone staring at a screen for 20-30 hours a month exclusively; that's why this works.  If it was TV, you have ads, but they're far longer and broken up further (because you can't hang a banner on the TV screen without chopping the shot, though this has also been done).  Same with radio.  But a video game?  You can be ticking money over by the minute.
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In that case looks like you can make a bunch just pitching and managing ad-based game transitions :rolleyes:
 
But looks that math game bussines managers are doing is different than yours.
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I'm not mad.  Won't have any regrets if I back out.  But I'm the whale in this equation.  I've got a lot of money on my hands.  I'm your "rich whale kid" (really 30 and I just have a good job).  I'm the guy NCSoft is counting on to stick around and fund this thing to the tune of a few hundred dollars a month.
 
I'm just not, there are sub games giving me a better deal elsewhere that suddenly become worth it.
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Your money. More power to you! 
 
Many of simply want to see this game grow instead of shriveling up and dying. I say do whatever it takes to grow this game.
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