149541-chase-events-nothing-but-a-dirty-grab-for-money-page-2

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Again, you need to do more than just make a claim, you need to prove it. I keep asking for evidence and I keep getting conjecture in return. Why is that? Why can't any of you provide some core evidence that specifically applies to the way Wildstar is handling their F2P model? Why do you keep using absolutes that disregard people who aren't being exploited? Why is context worth so little?
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For everyone commenting that the event is easily changed to allow for people to get the things they want without hurting sales, think about the following points:
If you are advocating for the big items to be available in game as well as the store, what exactly compensates for the sale loss when people choose to pursue the reward through in-game means? Where is Carbine going to make its money?If your answer is "from the people who don't want to play dungeons/don't want to engage in the event," do you think those people outnumber the people who, under the current structure, want things exclusive to those RNG boxes? If not, where is the money coming from? This is the main thing you need to answer when challenging the event's approach to RMT.
If you are advocating for the items to be available on the store directly, how are you compensating for the understood psychology concept that more people will buy many cheaply-priced things than one expensive thing? Have you considered how the value of the RNG box changes when the most desired items are directly on the store? Do you believe the people who are interested in directly purchasing the item outweigh the people who will spend at least that amount on trying to get it?
There's a lot of thought that goes into making decisions like these. That all the Chase events have been similarly structured is indicative that the current way they're set up works. Suggesting change is great, but suggesting change with a significant revenue loss is probably not going to go anywhere. If your suggestion is to be able to get absolutely everything from an event through playing the game, that's probably not going to happen. They have to make money somehow.	
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{| class="blockquote"
For everyone commenting that the event is easily changed to allow for people to get the things they want without hurting sales, think about the following points:
If you are advocating for the big items to be available in game as well as the store, what exactly compensates for the sale loss when people choose to pursue the reward through in-game means? Where is Carbine going to make its money?If your answer is "from the people who don't want to play dungeons/don't want to engage in the event," do you think those people outnumber the people who, under the current structure, want things exclusive to those RNG boxes? If not, where is the money coming from? This is the main thing you need to answer when challenging the event's approach to RMT.
If you are advocating for the items to be available on the store directly, how are you compensating for the understood psychology concept that more people will buy many cheaply-priced things than one expensive thing? Have you considered how the value of the RNG box changes when the most desired items are directly on the store? Do you believe the people who are interested in directly purchasing the item outweigh the people who will spend at least that amount on trying to get it?
There's a lot of thought that goes into making decisions like these. That all the Chase events have been similarly structured is indicative that the current way they're set up works. Suggesting change is great, but suggesting change with a significant revenue loss is probably not going to go anywhere. If your suggestion is to be able to get absolutely everything from an event through playing the game, that's probably not going to happen. They have to make money somehow.
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{| class="blockquote"
For everyone commenting that the event is easily changed to allow for people to get the things they want without hurting sales, think about the following points:
If you are advocating for the big items to be available in game as well as the store, what exactly compensates for the sale loss when people choose to pursue the reward through in-game means? Where is Carbine going to make its money?If your answer is "from the people who don't want to play dungeons/don't want to engage in the event," do you think those people outnumber the people who, under the current structure, want things exclusive to those RNG boxes? If not, where is the money coming from? This is the main thing you need to answer when challenging the event's approach to RMT.
If you are advocating for the items to be available on the store directly, how are you compensating for the understood psychology concept that more people will buy many cheaply-priced things than one expensive thing? Have you considered how the value of the RNG box changes when the most desired items are directly on the store? Do you believe the people who are interested in directly purchasing the item outweigh the people who will spend at least that amount on trying to get it?
There's a lot of thought that goes into making decisions like these. That all the Chase events have been similarly structured is indicative that the current way they're set up works. Suggesting change is great, but suggesting change with a significant revenue loss is probably not going to go anywhere. If your suggestion is to be able to get absolutely everything from an event through playing the game, that's probably not going to happen. They have to make money somehow.
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{| class="blockquote"
For everyone commenting that the event is easily changed to allow for people to get the things they want without hurting sales, think about the following points:
If you are advocating for the big items to be available in game as well as the store, what exactly compensates for the sale loss when people choose to pursue the reward through in-game means? Where is Carbine going to make its money?If your answer is "from the people who don't want to play dungeons/don't want to engage in the event," do you think those people outnumber the people who, under the current structure, want things exclusive to those RNG boxes? If not, where is the money coming from? This is the main thing you need to answer when challenging the event's approach to RMT.
If you are advocating for the items to be available on the store directly, how are you compensating for the understood psychology concept that more people will buy many cheaply-priced things than one expensive thing? Have you considered how the value of the RNG box changes when the most desired items are directly on the store? Do you believe the people who are interested in directly purchasing the item outweigh the people who will spend at least that amount on trying to get it?
There's a lot of thought that goes into making decisions like these. That all the Chase events have been similarly structured is indicative that the current way they're set up works. Suggesting change is great, but suggesting change with a significant revenue loss is probably not going to go anywhere. If your suggestion is to be able to get absolutely everything from an event through playing the game, that's probably not going to happen. They have to make money somehow. 
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You're starting to sound like yasfan. -_-
 
The concept of rng boxes being exploitative is not some crazy thing. It is a fact. It is exploiting some consumers' gamble impulses, chasing that, "It could be me!" charge. That's why people buy them and it's why companies put them up for sale. There is no need for further evidence. It is literally the purpose of the marketing strategy.
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By definition, a marketing strategy targeted toward a particular part of the market is "exploiting" that market...
 
Please stop arguing semantics.	
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Looking at Olivar and Beattlebilly's replies to you, Kintoro, they completely missed the main point you made about compensating for losses. The general assumption is "they still make money" and none of them give a crap that the losses incurred from changes could result in not meeting the bills. They'll use anecdotal examples from other games without actually knowing what information those changes were based on and how those games differ from Wildstar in various ways.
 
Again, context means nothing here.
 
The game devs behind Wildstar have no clue what they're doing, remember? They have no data, no experience, no job that pays them to show up to work and analyze the facts of the matter, no personal interest in retaining that job, no accumen for finances, and no understanding of player psychology.
 
They got where they are mopping windows somewhere.	
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So you make an assumption that I don't spend money to support the Chase events, even though I gave no indication that was the case, I explain why you're way off base, and you call that convenience?
 
Yes, generally when someone makes a false claim that invites clarification, clarification is the way to go. Welcome to the world of productive discourse my friend.
 
And uh... when did I say I buy RNG cases? I clearly stated that I bought Sim Cards and Space Chase currency. Wait, do you not even know what those are and what they represent in this context?
 
You're quite bad at this. And since you seem to have abandoned the weak premise I criticized you for earlier, I'm happy to just move on. :)
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Because ad-hominem attacks are a staple of reasoned arguments?
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By definition, a marketing strategy targeted toward a particular part of the market is "exploiting" that market...
 
Please stop arguing semantics.
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Jheezy, do some research and you'll look like less of a joke. I've already stated that I support the idea that non-housing stuff is locked out. Multiple times. In this thread, and in a thread I wrote on the marketplace forum. I'm here criticizing the people who are making big claims and calling them facts (or acting like they're immutable realities Carbine needs to immediately address). Just like you're doing when you use the word 'fact' to describe your personal beliefs about how profitable housing cosmetics are. You should find the dictionary page for 'fact' and make it your new mantra.
 
And 'large outcry'? Hahaha. I see like, a dozen people who cared enough to come here and argue anything. And most of them can't even back up their claims.
 
Also, stop putting words in my mouth with your strawman argument. I never wrote, or implied, that people should be excited. How they ~feel~ about this is not a part of my debate. How they argue for what they want is. You're proving yourself incredibly lazy by failing to understand my presence in this thread, which wouldn't take much time or effort.
 
 
What you could take from this quote:
 
"I didn't get the one thing I wanted because I didn't throw money at the previous event."
 
Is the truth, which is that I wasn't able to farm enough plat to buy the Caretakers who were on the auction house. Or with more accuracy, I spent some plat on other stuff too, rather than putting all my eggs into one basket.
 
Please continue your extremely weak form of argument.
			
				
	Edited February 9, 2016 by EsperXIV	
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{| class="blockquote"
For everyone commenting that the event is easily changed to allow for people to get the things they want without hurting sales, think about the following points:
If you are advocating for the big items to be available in game as well as the store, what exactly compensates for the sale loss when people choose to pursue the reward through in-game means? Where is Carbine going to make its money?If your answer is "from the people who don't want to play dungeons/don't want to engage in the event," do you think those people outnumber the people who, under the current structure, want things exclusive to those RNG boxes? If not, where is the money coming from? This is the main thing you need to answer when challenging the event's approach to RMT.
If you are advocating for the items to be available on the store directly, how are you compensating for the understood psychology concept that more people will buy many cheaply-priced things than one expensive thing? Have you considered how the value of the RNG box changes when the most desired items are directly on the store? Do you believe the people who are interested in directly purchasing the item outweigh the people who will spend at least that amount on trying to get it?
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Challenging views is exhausting, particularly when others don't put forth the same level of effort. Know that you're appreciated, at least, and that this lurker will miss you. It's important for all sides to support reasoned viewpoints and those that give them, even when they don't agree with us, as these debates only help us grow (provided, of course, we let them.)
 
I am personally disappointed that those who replied to me (EDIT: except Cantatus; posted while I was writing) didn't truly address my points, though I am not surprised. My aim was to jog people out of their current locked mindset and encourage thinking about the psychology of consumerism and how suggested changes could keep things profitable. In each response, it's my belief the changes would drastically reduce revenue from the event, which means a lack of support for future content generation and things of that nature.
 
Cantatus, truly solid response, and thank you.
			
				
	Edited February 11, 2016 by PhoenixMitra	
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I'm not really a fan of the Gamble-Boxes, but I don't think I've seen a price tag attached to things like Destination: ArcTerra or Redmoon Terror.  If the playable content remains free, I guess I can turn a blind eye to the RNG Boxes.
 
After all, that means that they're sticking to the plan they outlined when Wildstar went free to play - Cash shop for cosmetic and convenience items, but free playable content.	
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It would be a real shame to lose you around here Esper.... please don't go! 
 
As for the rest of you, this is a completely moot thread. There is no more lucrative monetization scheme for this type of FTP system than the RNG crates. That the events allow for in-game activity to acrue currency to purchase much of the contents is even a major bonus.
 
This isn't hollow statement. There's a field of study somewhere between Sociology and Maths called Economics.. and it has shed tremendous light on how artificial markets function. 
 
I don't expect you to "believe" me. Instead, go read the peer-reviewed economics studies focused on MMO monetization by Miho Nojima (Professor of Econ. @ Seikai University), or Juho Hamari (Professor of Inf. Science, Univ. of Tempere).
 
It's even been pointed out previously in this thread with Rift: rng boxes make the most money by far in F2P MMO's with a cash shop model. Would it be cool to get individual items for sale? Sure... but if Carbine want's to keep the game open then it's never going to happen entirely.
 
 
And as Esper mentioned, this IS NOT EXPLOITATION in the predatory sense. Yes if you wan't to play semantics, using anything at all can be described as "exploitation", but in the colloquial sense it was used originally in this thread (as a predatory and malicious use of tactics) it most certainly is not. RNG boxes are an industry standard.
			
				
	Edited February 11, 2016 by PhoenixMitra
	
		Hid response to previous hidden post.	
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{| class="blockquote"
For everyone commenting that the event is easily changed to allow for people to get the things they want without hurting sales, think about the following points:
If you are advocating for the big items to be available in game as well as the store, what exactly compensates for the sale loss when people choose to pursue the reward through in-game means? Where is Carbine going to make its money?If your answer is "from the people who don't want to play dungeons/don't want to engage in the event," do you think those people outnumber the people who, under the current structure, want things exclusive to those RNG boxes? If not, where is the money coming from? This is the main thing you need to answer when challenging the event's approach to RMT.
If you are advocating for the items to be available on the store directly, how are you compensating for the understood psychology concept that more people will buy many cheaply-priced things than one expensive thing? Have you considered how the value of the RNG box changes when the most desired items are directly on the store? Do you believe the people who are interested in directly purchasing the item outweigh the people who will spend at least that amount on trying to get it?
There's a lot of thought that goes into making decisions like these. That all the Chase events have been similarly structured is indicative that the current way they're set up works. Suggesting change is great, but suggesting change with a significant revenue loss is probably not going to go anywhere. If your suggestion is to be able to get absolutely everything from an event through playing the game, that's probably not going to happen. They have to make money somehow.
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Exclusively focusing on whales and gambling addicts is not a sustainable business model.  Like drugs it gives a short term high but long term use causes significant and permanent damage.  Flipping off the non-whales is a great way to make them leave.  Whales need somebody to show off to, when all that's left are whales, showing off to somebody that also has your shiny just isn't as fun.
 
What's better?  Selling ten $60 items or a thousand $3 ones?
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Can you prove that Carbine is utilizing a gambling strategy with intent to squeeze only a particular group of people? I've accepted your general premise that marketing seeks to get money. Now meet me halfway and give me evidence of what Carbine is thinking.
 
I mean seriously Naunet, aren't you a teacher? Is this the way you grade your students? At what point do you respect other people enough to accept that they might just be as smart and experienced as you are and, not agreeing with your big claims no evidence approach, maybe it's time for a change? :wacko:
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That is seriously THE reason a company would choose to implement gamble boxes: to lure in the people who end up spending loads - either intentionally or unintentionally - in their attempt to get their desired items.
 
Though, y'know, awesome near-personal attack and all.
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RNG boxes make far more money than any other item sold in F2P cash shops. Rift's Devs said this explicitly when they responded to the same complaints on their forums, and multiple economists who study MMO monetization have shown that indeed they are the most profitable item to sell in F2P shops by far (see my earlier post). Correct me if I'm wrong, but their arguments are basically "I don't want to have to pay plat or spend real money on cases for items I really want, I wan't to buy them outright even though evidence shows that is a sub-par monetization scheme"
 
 
 
On a completely related note, you may or may not know this, but Matlab doesn't have a "random number generator" function built in. You are most likely reffering to the "Rand", "Randn", and "Randi" functions, which are not actually random, but have a seed in the program to generate numbers from. You can manually set the seed, or use the default. Either way, its not a true RNG. 
 
 
 
Also, I feel the need to point out that you are guaranteed something from the boxes, just not necessarily the exact item you want. Again, identical to trading card game booster packs, happy meals, cereal boxes, and literally everything else you can buy and get a random prize in.
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I am amazed. Somebody has to pay in the free-to-play model?
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So now personal insults become the standard for argumenting, okay.....
 
@nazrym:
I'm definitely with you on the random number generation being flawed.
Has always been one of the biggest issues in programming "randomness", which does not make the RNG boxes any better, as the system they use is flawed.
And this goes in line with something that was posted on the Blade & Soul forums:  That the boxes are rigged in such a way that the Item you need for your class has a lower drop chance then the rest, based on your class.
Pretty farfetched, and smells more like a conspieracy theory, but the thought behind it in line with what Bacon_21 posted: 
 
People do not want to get cheated.
 
And that's the main driving force behind this topic as well.
When people are spending money on this game, they want what they paid for : The items.
They do not want to spend 20$ for a chance to get the mount.
 
And the same applies to the events.
I'd love doing an event if I actually know I have a chance to obtain something of interest from the event.
Heck, I'd settle with purchasing the RNG Boxes using ingame tokens from the dungeons because the only investment I made was my time and having fun with my guild clearing the dungeons.
However when I need to spend money, then I want something for it in return.
And "a chance" on getting something is not sufficient for me to invest the amount of money required to obtain the rewards.
 
Like TexArcana once said in some other topics:
Put everything on the cash shop for a fair price and I'll happily buy it.
Hide it behind and RNG and give nothing for my money: I'll take it elsewhere then.
 
So many topics existed about the background musics : None in the shop
Mounts were character bound, they finally changed it after enough discussion.
So here's to hoping that Carbine actually changes to putting some rewards in the cash shop for money, or make them obtainable ingame as well if they want to keep their RNG boxes.
 
As for "ignoring points" in the discussion?
I simply don't want to argue against someone's opinion. we all have our own and we all see it different.
Deal with it.	
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What's your point Nau? How is that different from literally anyone selling anything? They wan't you to give them money for their product... You use the words "lure", but really they are just marketing their product. 
 
I also want to point out that RNG crates aren't actually gambling in a strict sense. Just as Booster packs of Magic cards aren't. There is no risk of getting nothing, you always get something; it just might not be exactly what you want. This is identical to when I bought Magic Cards as a kid... It was rare I got exactly the card I wanted, but I still got cards, and could diversify my deck or trade what I got with friends.
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When it comes to kids and boxes, I think about when I was a kid and went to some amusement park.
There were a lot of different kind of lotteries and games that most of them didn't give you anything unless you won. You pretty much paid to take part.
My favourite lottery was a lottery where you always won. Even though I might have wanted the giant pink bear and didn't get it, I still always got something. I didn't get the pink bear but I got a small white cat that I also liked.
So, I don't think that's unimportant when it comes to these lockboxes in game, since like said previously you wil. 
I also think it's worth to mention omnibits that is a very generous system compared to other f2p-mmos. People can get currency for just playing the game that they can use to buy things in the shop. So if one think that they might want something really bad that might end up in a lockbox there is a possibility to gather omnibits and get a couple of boxes for free.
Also if all lockbox items are suppose to be BoE, there will be an option to grind plats and buy the item from players or AH if available there, then you could get the specific item and only have to spend time to get it. 
 
Add to that, people say event is only for people who love housing. It's not entirely true. For people liking dungeons it's an opportunity to get faster queues, same goes for players who need gear from dungeons. It's also an opportunity to get money, especially some time after event selling the decor might give nice money. 	
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I also think it's worth to mention omnibits that is a very generous system compared to other f2p-mmos. People can get currency for just playing the game that they can use to buy things in the shop. So if one think that they might want something really bad that might end up in a lockbox there is a possibility to gather omnibits and get a couple of boxes for free.
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{| class="blockquote"
It's also worth pointing out, however, that the ability to use Omnibits for this kind of thing is extremely limited. Time-limited events + Omnibits do not go well together, as you can only earn so many Omnibits in a given period. Unless you specifically hold onto them over a long period of time, you won't be able to get much with them. And then... you have to start saving up again.
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It is worth pointing out that since wildstar's f2p transition was very poor as per ncsofts financials and conference calls today, I would hazard we should expect much more shop events.
 
Edit for reference:
http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx
			
				
	Edited February 11, 2016 by myst	
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{| class="blockquote"
It is worth pointing out that since wildstar's f2p transition was very poor as per ncsofts financials and conference calls today, I would hazard we should expect much more shop events.
 
Edit for reference:
http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx
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You must not have listened to the conference call. "offsetting the weakening in wildstar and royalties sales"  This was the only time wildstar was mentioned. The fact Wildstar had an increase of 1million USD does not mean they made any extra revenue. Do you not find it telling they ignore even mentioning Wildstar other then one very negative comment?
 
Edit:
During the Q&A portion of the call, they were specifically asked about future guidance of every ncwest title. Again, wildstar was omitted.
			
				
	Edited February 11, 2016 by myst	
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Also worth pointing out that the chase events are going to all repeat... so you can save up for particular ones you want stuff from :3
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			Game is slowly RIP, ofc they are trying to grab as much money as possible before it ends. :)	
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No I can't, cause that stuff is in an RNG box. :(
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Hey all,
 
I have been following this thread for the last couple of days (thanks to those who linked me on Twitter :)), and I thought that it deserved a response.
 
I won't spend my time debating the ins and outs of monetization strategies, as I think that a number of people in the thread have a great job of describing why they exist. WildStar is now a free-to-play game, and we do indeed need to make money. I do think it's important to note that we are constantly analyzing and evolving these strategies, with the hopes of that they the right balance with WildStar's core gameplay experience.
 
I would also like to say plainly that I think we can do a better job of incentivizing player participation in the Chase Events, and there are active discussions taking place right now in the studio to address that. One of the primary goals of any in-game event is to encourage and reward players to engage with the game, and we will be continually making improvements to ensure we are achieving it. Along with these discussions, we are also talking about the kinds of rewards that we offer players in these events, with an eye on making sure that we are offering the *right* rewards to incentivize participation. These discussions also include a focus on what we are offering for our signature members, and making sure that we are giving them an appropriate level of value for their loyalty and financial commitment. 
 
I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread, whichever side of the discussion that they happened to fall on. These discussions are vital to the ongoing health of WildStar and its community, and I welcome them. 
 
Pappy
			
				
	Edited February 11, 2016 by Pappy	
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			Thanks for responding, Pappy. While I don't have a huge issue with the RNG boxes, I will say that only having decor as something you can "chase" is kinda a bummer. I'd much prefer to be chasing pets, mounts or costumes than simply decor.	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
Hey all,
 
I have been following this thread for the last couple of days (thanks to those who linked me on Twitter :)), and I thought that it deserved a response.
 
I won't spend my time debating the ins and outs of monetization strategies, as I think that a number of people in the thread have a great job of describing why they exist. WildStar is now a free-to-play game, and we do indeed need to make money. I do think it's important to note that we are constantly analyzing and evolving these strategies, with the hopes of that they the right balance with WildStar's core gameplay experience.
 
I would also like to say plainly that I think we can do a better job of incentivizing player participation in the Chase Events, and there are active discussions taking place right now in the studio to address that. One of the primary goals of any in-game event is to encourage and reward players to engage with the game, and we will be continually making improvements to ensure we are achieving it. Along with these discussions, we are also talking about the kinds of rewards that we offer players in these events, with an eye on making sure that we are offering the *right* rewards to incentivize participation. These discussions also include a focus on what we are offering for our signature members, and making sure that we are giving them an appropriate level of value for their loyalty and financial commitment. 
 
I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread, whichever side of the discussion that they happened to fall on. These discussions are vital to the ongoing health of WildStar and its community, and I welcome them. 
 
Pappy
 
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			I'm finding that the chase events don't really motivate me to participate in the game content... I just buy the rewards I want from auction house. I would actually like more items to be bind on pickup... so then it actually shows that you worked for the item.	
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			stop wasting time with those events noone wants to see and release new content.	
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I'll say one thing: since Pappy became Game Director, they've already said more on the topic of these events (or more accurately, literally everything) than they did in the many months since Space-Chase.
 
I will take this as a very good sign, and hope you make the phrase "the devs are listening" a core part of your philosophy as it was originally touted to be (which you seem to be doing!) I'll continue staying positive, since that's what I do, in the betweens of changes.	
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			They should add more costumes in the ingame shop	
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I don't get why people keep "defending" this cash grab with comments like: TF2 and GW2 have these kind of boxes too! or: *insert mmo here* does it way worse!
 
Yes, there are worse mmos and other games have "similar" cash grabs. I just don't see how this adds up to GW2 Black Lion Boxes or TF2 boxes. You can get EVERYTHING in GW2 events in-game and mostly everything from TF2 too (I'm not up to date with that anymore, at least it used to be), albeit by playing very long (which doesn't bother me). The most important thing people are missing here is that these chests are there EVERY DAY, ALL YEAR. So no limited time to get the Pumera mount you're basically drooling on but will never get due to bad RNG and already having spent 50 euros on it, but a slow and steady work towards getting it. No, these chests can be obtained, bought, opened all year long so you can just work towards it on your own pace.
 
Also a solution to make this feel less like being ripped off: remove all the decor you can get from the event in the first place from the RNG boxes (yeah, not RNG enough with only 5 items instead of 15). OR if you'd get the Pumera by doing dungeons by just 0,5%, I'd be happy, since I know I have a chance on getting it without having to throw money at my screen, which isn't even helping in my case.
 
I'd rather just keep supporting Carbine with my sub and buy a mount now and then instead of this. I'm just thinking of not renewing my sub with real money since I'm not getting any real value out of it any more and then I can just save up some money in case a stupid cash grab like this comes along where I can't say no to the mount/pet. Disgruntled Akisa is disgruntled.
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
 
Hey all,
 
I have been following this thread for the last couple of days (thanks to those who linked me on Twitter  :)), and I thought that it deserved a response.
 
I won't spend my time debating the ins and outs of monetization strategies, as I think that a number of people in the thread have a great job of describing why they exist. WildStar is now a free-to-play game, and we do indeed need to make money. I do think it's important to note that we are constantly analyzing and evolving these strategies, with the hopes of that they the right balance with WildStar's core gameplay experience.
 
I would also like to say plainly that I think we can do a better job of incentivizing player participation in the Chase Events, and there are active discussions taking place right now in the studio to address that. One of the primary goals of any in-game event is to encourage and reward players to engage with the game, and we will be continually making improvements to ensure we are achieving it. Along with these discussions, we are also talking about the kinds of rewards that we offer players in these events, with an eye on making sure that we are offering the *right* rewards to incentivize participation. These discussions also include a focus on what we are offering for our signature members, and making sure that we are giving them an appropriate level of value for their loyalty and financial commitment. 
 
I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread, whichever side of the discussion that they happened to fall on. These discussions are vital to the ongoing health of WildStar and its community, and I welcome them. 
 
Pappy
 
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I'm kinda like Pepperdragon, although I cannot really justify the subscription at the moment.
I'd love to support Carbine by having a sub running, but I do not feel I'm getting anything worthwhile for the 15 a month I have to pay out.
 
When I compare this to the sub I had at swTOR when they switched to F2P, I received a small amount of coins every month that I could spend on the Cash Shop.
Something like this would go a long way in making me subscribe again for WildStar.
I'd like to see more benefits as well for being a subscriber. To name a few:
 
Reduced cost at NPCs
No AH fees
Reduced repair costs
100% currency increase (similar to B&S)
No costs on the teleportation
Higher reputation/EG/Honor/Glory gains
Free mail
Dedicated shop page with unique offers (Similar to B&S)
Unlimited Char slots (locked again after sub expires)
Unlimited Costume slots (locked again after sub expires)
Those are things where I'd happily put up my subscription again for.
Just my 2 cents	
----
			
No mount or pet yet BOO......But I have things :)	
----
			I don't mind subbing from what Oliver is suggesting, as it is no point. 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm kinda like Pepperdragon, although I cannot really justify the subscription at the moment.
I'd love to support Carbine by having a sub running, but I do not feel I'm getting anything worthwhile for the 15 a month I have to pay out.
 
When I compare this to the sub I had at swTOR when they switched to F2P, I received a small amount of coins every month that I could spend on the Cash Shop.
Something like this would go a long way in making me subscribe again for WildStar.
I'd like to see more benefits as well for being a subscriber. To name a few:
 
Reduced cost at NPCs
No AH fees
Reduced repair costs
100% currency increase (similar to B&S)
No costs on the teleportation
Higher reputation/EG/Honor/Glory gains
Free mail
Dedicated shop page with unique offers (Similar to B&S)
Unlimited Char slots (locked again after sub expires)
Unlimited Costume slots (locked again after sub expires)
Those are things where I'd happily put up my subscription again for.
Just my 2 cents
----
			I could care less about New Content because the existing content is broken. If they want the game to survive they need to take the random sockets out of crafting. I am so sick and tired of wasting mats on CRAP that I just recycle because I got sockets I don't want or even three of the same socket so the item can't even be crafted. The random socket system is bullshit and it needs to be redone. We should be able to CHOOSE which sockets we get on our crafted gear, that would be implied by the fact we are CRAFTING it not picking up random loot.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I could care less about New Content because the existing content is broken. If they want the game to survive they need to take the random sockets out of crafting. I am so sick and tired of wasting mats on CRAP that I just recycle because I got sockets I don't want or even three of the same socket so the item can't even be crafted. The random socket system is bullshit and it needs to be redone. We should be able to CHOOSE which sockets we get on our crafted gear, that would be implied by the fact we are CRAFTING it not picking up random loot.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm kinda like Pepperdragon, although I cannot really justify the subscription at the moment.
I'd love to support Carbine by having a sub running, but I do not feel I'm getting anything worthwhile for the 15 a month I have to pay out.
 
When I compare this to the sub I had at swTOR when they switched to F2P, I received a small amount of coins every month that I could spend on the Cash Shop.
Something like this would go a long way in making me subscribe again for WildStar.
I'd like to see more benefits as well for being a subscriber. To name a few:
 
Reduced cost at NPCs
No AH fees
Reduced repair costs
100% currency increase (similar to B&S)
No costs on the teleportation
Higher reputation/EG/Honor/Glory gains
Free mail
Dedicated shop page with unique offers (Similar to B&S)
Unlimited Char slots (locked again after sub expires)
Unlimited Costume slots (locked again after sub expires)
Those are things where I'd happily put up my subscription again for.
Just my 2 cents
----
			This is the first time I have ever played into the RNG boxes and wow do I regret ever touching them. $80+350 omnibits = 1 Swordkitten and a mountain of trash that doesnt even sell well. These kinds of odds don't belong in a cash shop. If you are going to make your flagship item stupidly rare in an RNG box, make it be with ingame currency and give the option to buy it out right. I wanted a mount like the Torine one since launch, I jumped at the opportunity to finally get it... And then this. I've been a subscriber since launch and never prior to today did I feel like you were ripping me off.	
----
			Well, can I quickly ask, will the mounts etc be available once again in the future through some kind of means whether it be event, shop etc?	
----
			*note to self*  "Don't visit Ministabber's plot.  IT'S A TRAP!!!" :D	
----
			
I only got the kitten pet cause a friend got several and set me one. I have all the Osun decor and dungeon crawlers!! xD. The mount eludes me. 
 
I like that all the stuff can be gotten on the AH. Could be fun to tie in a title or achievements (or both) that you earn during events like this.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You can save omnibits to get cases: or can save plat to buy prizes outright.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I touched on the omnibit limitation already, but I don't really have time to farm plat on top of the plat I already invest in endgame activities. >_< This whole thing is so incredibly frustrating. I DESPERATELY WANT TO GIVE THEM MONEY augh. Carbine, please just let me give you money for the items I want...
----
			
I've given up on the mount and just bought the love kitty. His little floaty hearts make me feel better about the amount of torture equipment...I mean Osun decor...currently in my crate.
 
That being said, if any lucky soul on Entity has the mount and wants to sell it in game, look me up!! Cercie Dupre still needs a kitty!	
----
			Now there is a mount and a pet in the store, hope we will see lots of pink cats and strain snarflelynx around. In case no, and more people buy the boxes... we know what will always win. 	
----
			
I'd like to thank Pappy for responding, it's so nice to know someone is listening and trying to change things for the better.
 
On topic, I have no problem with lockboxes and the company needing to make money.  It's just how the world works these days.  I personally think the system takes adventage of obsessive-compulsives and people with gambling issues, but there are many products in the world that I think are morally questionable.  Lockboxes make more money than straight purchases.. we may not like it but the numbers clearly are there.  If you take a look at Reddit there is a thread about people complaining "I bought 60 boxes and didn't get the mount".  And yet they buy more.  It's almost pathological.
 
No, my complaint (and one that can be fixed!) is that the "Chase" events offer hardly anything to actually make us participate.  I don't like the look of any of the décor, and I'm not the biggest housing guy.  So what's in it for me?  Can I grind all weekend for a pet?  Or a mount?  I would do that and I'm sure lots of folks would too.  But we don't have the option, not even a 1% drop chance or anything.
 
I queued for vet adventures during many nights of the "Sim Chase" event and never got a single one to pop.  And yesterday I queued for dungeons - because I like dungeons -, thinking I would get a faster queue due to the event.  No difference that I could see.
 
Clearly something isn't working, and it's a good thing it's being looked at.
 
- Ruffpaw	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Hey all,
 
I have been following this thread for the last couple of days (thanks to those who linked me on Twitter :)), and I thought that it deserved a response.
 
I won't spend my time debating the ins and outs of monetization strategies, as I think that a number of people in the thread have a great job of describing why they exist. WildStar is now a free-to-play game, and we do indeed need to make money. I do think it's important to note that we are constantly analyzing and evolving these strategies, with the hopes of that they the right balance with WildStar's core gameplay experience.
 
I would also like to say plainly that I think we can do a better job of incentivizing player participation in the Chase Events, and there are active discussions taking place right now in the studio to address that. One of the primary goals of any in-game event is to encourage and reward players to engage with the game, and we will be continually making improvements to ensure we are achieving it. Along with these discussions, we are also talking about the kinds of rewards that we offer players in these events, with an eye on making sure that we are offering the *right* rewards to incentivize participation. These discussions also include a focus on what we are offering for our signature members, and making sure that we are giving them an appropriate level of value for their loyalty and financial commitment. 
 
I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread, whichever side of the discussion that they happened to fall on. These discussions are vital to the ongoing health of WildStar and its community, and I welcome them. 
 
Pappy
 
----
			
It's also nice to see Carbine take time to post on their actual forums instead of Reddit, nothing wrong with multi posting across social media :) not all spend time trawling the internet....so maybe add “ I must post more on the official forum “ to your to do list.  	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Then I truly hope to see some big changes at the next Chase event.
Because right now I'm simply not feeling it at all.
I have little to no desire to even form a dedicated group to dive into the dungeons as the rewards are simply not interesting to me at all.
 
Only reason why I now organise a dungeon run on friday with my guild is to get gold medals.
I also hope that Carbine will actually TALK with their community about what would be good rewards, present your ideas and allow us to provide feedback on them.
I believe that will go a lot further then you guys just saying "let's try this"
----
			
Just to get my word in, since Carbine is reading.
 
I don't want to ever buy anything in a cash shop. I want to pay to play your game. That's why I have a sub. That's why I bought at several month sub. Honestly, the sub isn't worth it, but I'm paying it anyway because I think this game is actually worth the $15 a month.
 
Please show your sub players some love. While I am actually paying, I'll bet most who are like me won't. I get that you want to hook the whales, but there's value to be had from people who just love to play the game and think it's worth something. Just take our money, and be happy with it. You don't need to try to get more. You can have us AND your whales, but right now it feels like you only want the whales.
 
Also, when I tried to extend my sub in order to get more cosmic points, your customer support was awful. They told me it was possible, had me re-purchase it three times, it never worked, and in the end they blamed my bank or something. Magically, when my sub ran out and I was able to purchase a new sub, there was no problem. I was sitting there ready to give you money, AND YOU WOULDN'T TAKE IT. Come on- I want this game to succeed, and rule number one should be that when someone wants to buy your product, you let them.
 
Finally, I calculated out the length of the sub I needed to get for some cosmic rewards I wanted. This was neat, as it was a good little encouragement to buy in a block (something I've wanted to do anyway, but have always been to lazy to jump on). Unfortunately, I came up short. Somehow, my math was off. When I contacted customer support, they refused to show me how the cosmic rewards were calculated. Seriously- it's not unreasonable after dumping down a bunch of money for a company to give me a breakdown of what I just purchased. And no, I will not just "trust you" that the numbers were right. You are the same company that cheated a ton of people out of their earned omnibits and never made it right once you corrected the bug. It makes it hard for me to trust you.I love the game. And you should thanks your stars that Timetravel and his team have created such content, because for any normal product I'd have left a long time ago over the way your company has treated.All I want is to give you money and play your game. That's it. It's simple. But you make it so hard to do :(
			
				
	Edited February 11, 2016 by SlyJeff	
----
			
My suggestion to get other players interested in the Chase events that don't want decor is to offer themed weapon skins and costumes. Now who doesn't want more costume pieces?
 
We have three themes for Dungeon Chase, Osun, Torine, and Protostar. There can be unique weapon skins for all three. The Protostar weapons having to be different from the ones you get in Protogames though. And there can be costume pieces as well that are unique to this event. That will pull in the players who enjoy making their characters look cool and unique. These costumes and skins could be bought by the Big Game Bucks encouraging people to run the dungeons for Scraps or buy a box of Bucks from the In-Game Store. They'd obviously cost more than the decors.
 
Don't want costumes or skins and only want to focus on bettering your character for Raids or PvP? Why not offer a good deal on Rune Bags for Big Game Bucks? This way pretty much all players are rewarded in some form or fashion by participating in the Dungeons for Scraps.
 
For RNG Cases, I'd replace the decor with the skins and costumes and add in a Dye or two to be exclusive to the themed Cases so there would be 6 different dyes you can get from Dungeon Chase. A similar set of rewards would also go for the other Chase events. If I got costume pieces, weapon skins, and dyes rather than just decor I could buy for relatively cheap, I'd be far more interested in buying additional RNG Cases to get that fancy pet or mount.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It's a monthly rotation. Find the items you like the most and save... got plenty of time ;) sure it's not immediate gratification... but MMO's that provide immediate gratification are the worst IMO. Working for something makes it much more valuable. If you can get everything you want instantly... where's the fun in that?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This isn't about instant gratification vs working for something. This is me speaking as a customer begging the company to let me give them money for a product that they're already selling.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Why do you think it's good for me to NOT give Carbine money?? Especially when I want to. Folk are always going on about how a business needs to make money...
 
I have no desire to save up plat for who-knows-how-long (especially when I already have plat drains that take me to almost-broke on a regular basis) and then hope that someone gets the item and is selling it for a reasonable amount. And saving omnibits would be an even worse investment, considering that if one buys the box, there's no telling if you'll actually get what you want.
 
This isn't about instant gratification vs working for something. This is me speaking as a customer begging the company to let me give them money for a product that they're already selling.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
It's also nice to see Carbine take time to post on their actual forums instead of Reddit, nothing wrong with multi posting across social media :) not all spend time trawling the internet....so maybe add “ I must post more on the official forum “ to your to do list.  
 
----
			Heh, the Reddit community wants to keep you guys all to themselves! Gotta share!	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Except you’re not offering as much money as Carbine expects for the product they’re selling.  My guess is they’re realizing hundreds of dollars of box purchases per mount dropped.  Are you willing to pay hundreds of, or even one hundred, dollars for a single character mount?  Probably not.  So you see, the amount of money you’re willing to give Carbine is not enough; they want more, much more.
 
How does that make you feel?
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I don't actually want the mount.
 
Though I guess you want me to say it makes me feel pretty shitty. It does. Yay.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Hey all,
 
I have been following this thread for the last couple of days (thanks to those who linked me on Twitter :)), and I thought that it deserved a response.
 
I won't spend my time debating the ins and outs of monetization strategies, as I think that a number of people in the thread have a great job of describing why they exist. WildStar is now a free-to-play game, and we do indeed need to make money. I do think it's important to note that we are constantly analyzing and evolving these strategies, with the hopes of that they the right balance with WildStar's core gameplay experience.
 
I would also like to say plainly that I think we can do a better job of incentivizing player participation in the Chase Events, and there are active discussions taking place right now in the studio to address that. One of the primary goals of any in-game event is to encourage and reward players to engage with the game, and we will be continually making improvements to ensure we are achieving it. Along with these discussions, we are also talking about the kinds of rewards that we offer players in these events, with an eye on making sure that we are offering the *right* rewards to incentivize participation. These discussions also include a focus on what we are offering for our signature members, and making sure that we are giving them an appropriate level of value for their loyalty and financial commitment. 
 
I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread, whichever side of the discussion that they happened to fall on. These discussions are vital to the ongoing health of WildStar and its community, and I welcome them. 
 
Pappy
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Hehe, usually we hear the opposite from our reddit community. :D
 
Here's the DevTracker where you'll see that our Devs are indeed on the forums, diving into threads, and keeping the community informed when they can.
----
			
I didn't buy any box during the Chase events because I ain't into housing and neither care much about pets and mounts.
Anyway it'd make sense to have the rng % on the items inside the boxes to be somewhere near similar items that are already sold in the store. For instance if mounts on the store are generally sold at 20$ and each case box cost 1$ (I don't know the actual price) let's make it that you have around 1 in 20 probabilities to get the mount, and so forth. I don't know if it's already like that, didn't read any number.
I think ppl would be much more inclined to spend if they had even a general idea of how much it would take to get the item they want, and also know they might luck out and get it for cheaper.
 
Another idea would be to sell a package of boxes worth 20$, let's say 20, split in 19 RNG boxes, and the last one working like when you choose the quest's reward, thus allowing you to choose the item you want. If you're unlucky you choose the item(s) you wanted, if you lucked out you can choose the most expensive one and sell it for plats to other players.
			
				
	Edited February 11, 2016 by Weer	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Except you’re not offering as much money as Carbine expects for the product they’re selling.  My guess is they’re realizing hundreds of dollars of box purchases per mount dropped.  Are you willing to pay hundreds of, or even one hundred, dollars for a single character mount?  Probably not.  So you see, the amount of money you’re willing to give Carbine is not enough; they want more, much more.
 
How does that make you feel?
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Hehe, usually we hear the opposite from our reddit community. :D
 
Here's the DevTracker where you'll see that our Devs are indeed on the forums, diving into threads, and keeping the community informed when they can.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Which is hilarious, because virtual goods have no reproduction costs. They don't have to manufacture each mount they expect to sell separately. They just make it once and then copy it forever. They have an infinite stock, yet they expect hundreds of dollars for each copy they sell?
 
Yeah, I'm not gonna feel crappy about not giving them my money, then!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Which is hilarious, because virtual goods have no reproduction costs. They don't have to manufacture each mount they expect to sell separately. They just make it once and then copy it forever. They have an infinite stock, yet they expect hundreds of dollars for each copy they sell?
 
Yeah, I'm not gonna feel crappy about not giving them my money, then!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Hey all,
 
I have been following this thread for the last couple of days (thanks to those who linked me on Twitter :)), and I thought that it deserved a response.
 
I won't spend my time debating the ins and outs of monetization strategies, as I think that a number of people in the thread have a great job of describing why they exist. WildStar is now a free-to-play game, and we do indeed need to make money. I do think it's important to note that we are constantly analyzing and evolving these strategies, with the hopes of that they the right balance with WildStar's core gameplay experience.
 
I would also like to say plainly that I think we can do a better job of incentivizing player participation in the Chase Events, and there are active discussions taking place right now in the studio to address that. One of the primary goals of any in-game event is to encourage and reward players to engage with the game, and we will be continually making improvements to ensure we are achieving it. Along with these discussions, we are also talking about the kinds of rewards that we offer players in these events, with an eye on making sure that we are offering the *right* rewards to incentivize participation. These discussions also include a focus on what we are offering for our signature members, and making sure that we are giving them an appropriate level of value for their loyalty and financial commitment. 
 
I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread, whichever side of the discussion that they happened to fall on. These discussions are vital to the ongoing health of WildStar and its community, and I welcome them. 
 
Pappy
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Thats a vast over simplefication and doesn't represent the actual dynamics at play. Rng boxes versus straight purchases are not an issue of "many people spending 10 dollars versus some paying 100". In reality, RNG boxes are many people spending some money, and some people spending lots of money; while one off's are some people paying a small one time amount. 
 
Actual economists have run the numbers, every F2P game with a cash shop has run the numbers, and there is no comparison. RNG cases are vastly more profitable than direct sales....
----
			I haven't read the whole thread so this may have already been said but I'd love to know why, as a Signature customer, I can't have a chance at getting some of the decent loot from an RNG box?That is one "Perk" you could and should be giving to a Signature holder that they can go the RNG route to get the cash shop stuff.Instead of these pikey "Events" where you don't get jack *cupcake*!That is about as fair as you can get, you're receiving money from us anyway so there's no reason to lock the stuff behind even more money if we want to take our chances with RNG.
			
				
	Edited February 12, 2016 by Charge	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Which is hilarious, because virtual goods have no reproduction costs. They don't have to manufacture each mount they expect to sell separately. They just make it once and then copy it forever. They have an infinite stock, yet they expect hundreds of dollars for each copy they sell?
 
Yeah, I'm not gonna feel crappy about not giving them my money, then!
----
			Sooo...torine chase cases are supposed to be available today. But, i guess you don't get to choose which one you get? It just RNGs that too? This is my sad face :(  I didn't want anymore stupid chains! Seriously...I could build a dungeon on my plot at this point. xD	
----
			
When it comes to digital products you should consider the 'stock' more the amount of people willing to buy your product moreso than the amount of product you can supply.
 
I get the pricing, I do. I get the appeal of RNG boxes. That said, I saw a comment on a reddit thread that made sense to me, and I'm sure it's been said in the many various pages in here.
 
The problem isn't the price, it's not even the goodies that we want (the mounts, etc.) The problem is the other stuff in the boxes. Yes, you'll reduce my grind time by quite a bit for that decor if you include it in the box, but it doesn't have a very fulfilling feeling. This isn't some superspecialamazing decor (as mentioned by others,) it's a lot of very common or bulk-requiring decor. And if you aren't an avid housing player? You're SoL.
 
If you really want to continue using the RNG boxes, make the rewards more unique. If you really wanted to, you could even split each type of box into three 'mini-boxes.' Every box contains the potential for the super awesome reward (the pumera mount and pet, in this case) but then is divided into "PvP," PvE," and "Housing" boxes. Let's say the PvP one contains a special weapon glow active in PvP and a costume, the PvE one features some really cool weapon models and the costume, and the housing one is what it is except with a little more precision and uniqueness added to the decor. That way, you'll probably sell a lot more boxes while satisfying your customers in more than one way. They'll feel rewarded for buying these boxes despite not getting what they want by providing more unique rewards, and you give them a selection specifically tailored to their interests.
 
Hell, if you want, you could have an extra side roll on each of these RNG boxes that, along with the normal reward, offers say for the PvP box a chance at gaining one of the gear upgrade items, or for the PvE one some heavy elder gems, and maybe toss in an ability/AMP point upgrade into that mix for each box.
			
				
	Edited February 12, 2016 by Bloodrose	
----
			
My biggest problems with the event are:
 
- If you're not into housing AND interested in building in the theme of the current chase, there's absolutely no incentive to participate in the gameplay.  That's an extremely small niche.
 
- Some of the gamble box contents are items that are already available in the game through other means, one of which I can make myself for a few gold.  That's aggravation from two sources: reducing the very small range of items of value I can create as an architect, and dissuading me from buying gamble boxes with the prospect  of getting something I can trivially produce.
 
Of the two, I think the first problem is the far more serious one.  I'm not opposed to "events" coming up that are mostly cash shop promos and bonus loot for running the same old content, but we need the in-game part of the promo to engage more than a few dozen players worldwide. 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
- If you're not into housing AND interested in building in the theme of the current chase, there's absolutely no incentive to participate in the gameplay.  That's an extremely small niche.
----
			I did consider listing that as a benefit, but as they're a byproduct of the mount lottery, people are selling them in large quantities.  I haven't checked prices today, but I suspect you'd make better money doing something other than farming dungeons for Scraps (especially if you have to wait in the queue).	
----
			
The game is F2P, RNG boxes make a lot of money, the RNG boxes only contain cosmetic items that you can buy for gold at the AH/through trade. The complaints are ridiculous.
 
I wouldn't mind if the boxes dropped something other than the decor available from the event vendors as the worst prize, or that a tiny chance of the box items dropping while doing the event content was made a sub/signature perk. The former would make players buy more boxes and the latter would make more players participate in the event.
 
But this game's F2P model is incredibly lenient on F2P players and omnibits (or in some cases gold) enable everyone to eventually obtain every item they'd normally have to pay real money for, so the "I spent X amount of dollars on RNG boxes and I didn't get the item I wanted!" and "I want the item available from the cash shop too (thus making a company running a F2P game where players only need to pay for cosmetic/convenience items also obtainable through tokens/gold lose money they need)!" complaints are ridiculous.	
----
			Well, farming dungeons is a good source of income regardless of the event.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well, farming dungeons is a good source of income regardless of the event.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
and quite a bit of fun too with a group of fun people!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Sooo...torine chase cases are supposed to be available today. But, i guess you don't get to choose which one you get? It just RNGs that too? This is my sad face :(  I didn't want anymore stupid chains! Seriously...I could build a dungeon on my plot at this point. xD
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What is this *fun* thing you speak of? :P :P :P
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Try running with some of ur guildies Chet :P, they are ridiculously fun
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
When you make it out to be a negative thing that with all importance should be changed, or that somehow casts a shadow on Carbine, or that explicitly targets people with disabilities, I take it seriously that yes, you should be providing evidence. You use words like 'exploitation' for something that is as old as commerce itself. If I walk into a store to buy some snacks, do I feel 'exploited' by the fact that they're bombarding me with shiny incentives to buy buy buy? No! Because exploitation in this context suggests something unethical and I see nothing wrong with this (despite hating commercials and disliking RNG and all the rest).
 
If you just want to write "marketing is bad mmk" then fine, do that. But then every retailer in existence, and most businesses, are guilty, so there's no need to come here criticizing Carbine like they're being dirty or doing something exceptionally wrong. If you're going to say that all are guilty and all should be criticized then I'll stop quoting you and assume that some day you'll be living on your eco-commune instead of living in and contributing to the capitalist system. :P
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
There's also selling to that small niche :)  But I agree the rewards should have some kind of broad appeal.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Currently some of the events have left players who don't like gambling alienated.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
  Naunet is right on this one.. rng boxes are a form of gambling that exploits the basic nature of having a chance for an easy reward. Nothing to have to prove here its basic addiction counseling 101 psychology.. is this good that companies do this.. Its neither good nor bad in my opinion. Its a normal part of commerce we are constantly bombarded through our senses to spend its a normal part of capitalism.
 
What im seeing here is those that are aware about not taking risks on rng boxes want other avenues in which to participate in the events with an element of reward. Realistically you can't place all the hot rng items in the cash shop for single sales it would under mind the concept of the rng box in the first place.. no what carbine needs to do is create supplimental items that will appeal to those that don't like to gamble but do like to spend. Even with rng boxes being a booming source of income it doesnt hurt to tap into the potential for non gambling related devices to make a sale. Currently some of the events have left players who don't like gambling alienated.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
NO! STOP!  RNG boxes are not gambling, you DONT HAVE A CHANCE AT NOTHING!
 
RNG boxes, just like booster packs for trading card games (which are not gambling), or Gachapon (not gambling), are purchasable items with random prizes. You are guaranteed a prize every time, its not a gamble.....  Just because there are rare prizes as well as common ones doesn't make it any more of a "gamble". 
 
Gambling requires putting up money (or something of value) against an uncertain outcome. Buying an item with guaranteed prizes is not an uncertain outcome; please stop pretending these crates are gambling. They have an element of chance, yes, but they are not a gamble. you ALWAYS get a prize. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Buying an item with prizes that are varying in value is an uncertain outcome.
 
Anyway, regardless of definition, the point is that RNG boxes work off the same parts of us that casinos do to exploit people for profit.
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I don't have a problem with the RNG boxes per se. I understand that Carbine is a business and they want to make money.
 
My only real gripe with them is this time around the boxes contain a handful of items that can already be acquired in game. It is of my opinion that the items within the cases should be new/unique if you're spending real money on them. Otherwise when I obtain an item that I already have access to, I feel like I got gypped.
 
Items that are already obtainable in-game: Mossy Overgrowth, Osun Anvil, Torine Head Statue and Statue of Torine Battlemaiden
 
3 of those items being in one case (Swordmaiden) alone. I want the Life Guardians, but I don't want to spend real money and risk getting something I already have access to. So, I'll be passing on spending real cash on those and hoping I can pick them up on the AH instead.  I *love* Torine stuff; it's probably my favourite style in the entire game but I feel like this was cheap on Carbine's part and a missed opportunity to add something new.  -_-	
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The problem isn't the price, it's not even the goodies that we want (the mounts, etc.) The problem is the other stuff in the boxes. Yes, you'll reduce my grind time by quite a bit for that decor if you include it in the box, but it doesn't have a very fulfilling feeling. This isn't some superspecialamazing decor (as mentioned by others,) it's a lot of very common or bulk-requiring decor. And if you aren't an avid housing player? You're SoL.
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