124774-q-carbine-are-you-changing-your-business-model

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Yes we do have questions....but do you have the answers
 
Q: Carbine are you changing your business model ?
 
Q: If you are, will that model be B2P F2P or hybrid ?
 
Q: You say we are a great community, I know we are a great community! Are you going to shit on us without warning like other game company's ?
 
Q: You have said in many Dev speaks that you won't bullshit the players, was that a lie ?
 
Q: I stick up for Wildstar and do my best to promote it all over the internet! So why am I starting to get this horrible taste in my mouth ?
 
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Yes we do have questions....but do you have the answers
 
Q: Carbine are you changing your business model ?
 
Q: If you are, will that model be B2P F2P or hybrid ?
 
Q: You say we are a great community, I know we are a great community! Are you going to shit on us without warning like other game company's ?
 
Q: You have said in many Dev speaks that you won't bullshit the players, was that a lie ?
 
Q: I stick up for Wildstar and do my best to promote it all over the internet! So why am I starting to get this horrible taste in my mouth ?	
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			I doubt it's carbine making the big decision, it's probably the head honchos over at NCSOFT	
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Q: I stick up for Wildstar and do my best to promote it all over the internet! So why am I starting to get this horrible taste in my mouth ?
 
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Yea, please, let it end. I'm honestly so tired of worrying about this game. Games are not meant to be worried about, they're meant to be enjoyed, and Wildstar has been too raw a ride for a newborn!
 
With the announcement of a B2P/F2P conversion, if that is in fact what's coming, this game can finally move on and be what it needs to be. I won't blame you. But I'm tired of this adolescent phase, watching Wildstar's identity constantly questioned as it struggles through growth pains.
 
If there's an announcement to be made please make it ASAP!	
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I doubt it's carbine making the big decision, it's probably the head honchos over at NCSOFT
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magic 8 ball says F2P
 
edit: don't try to pin all the blame on NCSOFT. Carbine made the game, it was up to Carbine to make a successful game.  I think these forums are going to try and demonise NCSOFT so they can continue to put Carbine on a pedestal when Carbine needs to take their share of responsibility for what happens to their game.	
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magic 8 ball says F2P
 
edit: don't try to pin all the blame on NCSOFT. Carbine made the game, it was up to Carbine to make a successful game.  I think these forums are going to try and demonise NCSOFT so they can continue to put Carbine on a pedestal when Carbine needs to take their share of responsibility for what happens to their game.
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Sorry, but the publisher can control this sort of thing.  They own the IP, they fund the studio.
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I doubt it's carbine making the big decision, it's probably the head honchos over at NCSOFT
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The publisher didn't make a game no one wanted to play. they will do what they need to do to keep the game financially viable or shut it down because it is not financially viable. It was up to Carbine to make a successful game, not NCsoft
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			So much freaking out on the forums today. Has this been going on the whole time I was gone or is this new?	
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Nope, perfectly normal
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So much freaking out on the forums today. Has this been going on the whole time I was gone or is this new?
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We still don't know for sure if they are changing the model or not.  Right now they are only cleaning old stock from stores, probably before stores return them and ask for a refund.  If a stock is not sold by a year probably never will.
 
ESO got away with that by the re-releasing bs campain.  Because if you went to most of those stores, they had the same old 1 year boxes with the prices increased again.
 
For the mid year and later we will see what the next 2 drops bring to the game.  For a F2P or B2P they need to place a store in game.  And still that hasn't happened.  Like I said in other threads.  I'm not worried of a change in model until that happens, either by announce, PTR, or live drop.	
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Oh, no biggie then. B)
 
People in game seem pretty happy at the moment, everyone just wants to have a flying balloon cat for some reason. People and cats, man... crazy.
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So much freaking out on the forums today. Has this been going on the whole time I was gone or is this new?
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It's because the majority of people don't care about f2p/b2p they play because they like the game.  Forums always tend to get people who have strong opinions one way or another.
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I forgot about that part haha. Like I said earlier today I've been in some extremely boring mandatory classes and survived by reading WS forums on my phone. So I've had a front row seat to the evolving madness all day.
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As I mentioned in a different thread, ultimately, I don't really care if they decide to change payment models or not.
 
However, I wish Carbine would let their intentions be known in order to put an end to all of this wild, paranoid speculation that's been consuming everything Wildstar-related today...	
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Yes we do have questions....but do you have the answers
 
Q: Carbine are you changing your business model ?
 
Q: If you are, will that model be B2P F2P or hybrid ?
 
Q: You say we are a great community, I know we are a great community! Are you going to shit on us without warning like other game company's ?
 
Q: You have said in many Dev speaks that you won't bullshit the players, was that a lie ?
 
Q: I stick up for Wildstar and do my best to promote it all over the internet! So why am I starting to get this horrible taste in my mouth ?
 
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Take their silence as your answer that yes, they are going either free to play or buy to play.
 
Carbine knows our concerns with ftp/btp. I would give them the opportunity to bring out their system before freeking out. In the meantime, enjoy the soon to be packed servers as hype increases
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Take their silence as your answer that yes, they are going either free to play or buy to play.
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Yea, please, let it end. I'm honestly so tired of worrying about this game. Games are not meant to be worried about, they're meant to be enjoyed, and Wildstar has been too raw a ride for a newborn!
 
With the announcement of a B2P/F2P conversion, if that is in fact what's coming, this game can finally move on and be what it needs to be. I won't blame you. But I'm tired of this adolescent phase, watching Wildstar's identity constantly questioned as it struggles through growth pains.
 
If there's an announcement to be made please make it ASAP!
 
 
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Heh, so much conjecture because Carbine is trying to make some sales!
 
P2P, B2P, F2P... whatever Carbine decides to do, there is one thing that all businesses share in common - Nobody, but NOBODY grinds out 8+ hours a day at their job just because they "love" to make people "happy".  We've all got bills to pay, mouths to feed, and nothing in this world is for free.
 
Carbine doesn't work for free, the people that manufacture Compact Disks don't work for free, the people that manufacture cardboard boxes don't work for free, the people that print graphic designs on those boxes don't work for free, the people that put all the stuff in those boxes don't work for free, the people that drive the trucks full of those boxes to the retailers don't work for free, and the people that bought those boxes to stock their shelves to sell those boxes to their customers sure as hell do not work for free.
 
With that being said, take a moment, think real hard about the product that you are talking about.  This game requires an internet connection.  If you have to have an internet connection to play it, then why not just download it directly from the developer's website?  I mean really, if you bought this game in a store then you are probably a part of a very small minority of people who still actually do that when they buy a new MMO.
 
Instead of getting in your car and driving all the way to the store, it is so, so much more convenient to go directly to Carbine's website, put in your credit card/debit card info, start downloading the client before you go to bed (or work), wake up in the morning (come home) and play.
 
So, now what?  Carbine sold a crapload of boxes to retailers/distributors and shipped them out to stores and very few people actually bought those boxes because they would rather just download the game from the Internet.  Don't you guys think it would make sense for them to make a big push to get those boxes off the shelves before the retailers start trying to ship those boxes back to Carbine and asking for their money back?
 
Maybe the gloom and doom about Carbine switching business models is just a little premature, eh?	
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So much freaking out on the forums today. Has this been going on the whole time I was gone or is this new?
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Personally I don't give two damns about b2p/f2p as long as it's done right.
But this little preview was downright disrespectful to the people who have cared about and supported their game since the beginning.
 
If you've seen me post on here you know that I'm generally up-beat when it comes to discussing movements in wildstar's development, and even when I'm critical I try to keep things fun, but this...
Carbine has disappointed me in ways I didn't think they were capable of.	
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			I have to agree that the new items are kind of a slap in the face for previous players. I mean, I don't think everyone should be guaranteed to get one, but another round of boomboxes for current players that have a chance would be nice.	
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Honestly I'd be more worried if people did not vocie their concerns and or happiness in some cases. While there are posts that are more ummm "passionate"  and I may not agree with their approach their view is just as valid as any other player.
 
With that said I personally am dissapointed in how this is conducted and the communication that has been given(with exception of what was given in the other thread) is poorly written and not clear.Perhaps I'm a nitpicky person, but it's my job to pay attention to details and I felt that it was not clear in ways that it should have been made officially from the beginning such as it being physical only, how the items are applied to your character, and the region lock.
 
I strongly also believe that everyone should at least get 1 box.
 
The way I am looking at it though is that this is part of bigger announcement or part of a process. As the news was posted today I am being patient and waiting for a possible response to the mixed reactions and where we go from here, because it has certainly put an awful feeling in a lot of players who have heard of this to some degree or another. I can't imagine this going without a response(i may be wrong, but who knows?) They could very well be planning to give current subs something and figuring out how to distribute it to us most likely through a hotfix OR they could just be like "it is what it is, deal with it" .
 
For now I simply think best thing to do is just voice your opinion as many of you you all have, which is wonderful(and get others to as well if you can) and see where this all goes.	
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The way I am looking at it though is that this is part of bigger announcement or part of a process. As the news was posted today I am being patient and waiting for a possible response to the mixed reactions and where we go from here, because it has certainly put an awful feeling in a lot of players who have heard of this to some degree or another. I can't imagine this going without a response(i may be wrong, but who knows?) They could very well be planning to give current subs something and figuring out how to distribute it to us most likely through a hotfix OR they could just be like "it is what it is, deal with it" .
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I would not spend to much time blaming NCsoft if the game goes F2P. If Carbine wanted to retain full control of the game they could have, but it is a money thing. NCsoft had the money to help them finish and promote the game and Carbine didn't. 
 
I would normally say I trust Carbine to be upfront with what is coming for our future and F2P but they seem to be keeping things pretty close to the vest lately. I would say if there is a F2P transition then it would not benefit them directly to say so before it happened. Especially if the game was just download and play and now box had to be purchased anymore. Lot's of people would probably call that the bait and switch. Here is the new promotion with new items for boxes, oops if you waited two months you could have played for free....
 
I hope Carbine will do the right thing I feel like Tony, and Timetravel have spent so much time building good will with the community that it would be sad to see it end on something like this. 
 
Hey at least they lasted longer then ESO and they had a 30 million plus fan base before they even thought of making an MMO.	
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There's been lots of talk about F2P since the beginning of time. However, the gambe boxes have upset quite a few people that have been devoted customers.
 
I don't necessarily care about a floating cat too much. But I do care when Carbine creates something and gives it away to someone willing to pay more money than my sub fee.
 
Yes, but by trying to sell extra copies of the game to people who have already bought it and supported the game faithfully?
 
That is scummy. And the more I think about it, the angrier I get.
 
If they aren't going to make it right, at least admit it was a not well thought out, scummy move, and promise to never do anything like it again.
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Hey at least they lasted longer then ESO and they had a 30 million plus fan base before they even thought of making an MMO.
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I would not spend to much time blaming NCsoft if the game goes F2P. If Carbine wanted to retain full control of the game they could have, but it is a money thing. NCsoft had the money to help them finish and promote the game and Carbine didn't. 
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There's been lots of talk about F2P since the beginning of time. However, the gambe boxes have upset quite a few people that have been devoted customers.
 
I don't necessarily care about a floating cat too much. But I do care when Carbine creates something and gives it away to someone willing to pay more money than my sub fee.
 
Yes, but by trying to sell extra copies of the game to people who have already bought it and supported the game faithfully?
 
That is scummy. And the more I think about it, the angrier I get.
 
If they aren't going to make it right, at least admit it was a not well thought out, scummy move, and promise to never do anything like it again.
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Except a lot of people don't find it scummy at all.
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Please refrain from such comments, they really prove nothing.
"A lot of people" are in favour of F2P
"A lot of people" are not.
 
Each group has it's own reasons for liking or disliking it.
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Noted, and disregarded. A lot of people don't find the box promotion upsetting at all. A lot of people actually enjoy it and want to participate. Will that bring in a lot of new players? Can't say. That would be neat though.
 
It should go without saying that people's posts here, unless they specifically reference facts, are opinions and personal observations.
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Yes, but not when you state them like a fact as you did.
This does not contribute to the discussion and just riles people up more.
 
I still haven't made up my mind what I think about this stunt they pulled.
On one side I can understand why they did it, and it makes sense.
On the other side, I disapprove of the entire thing as it stinks.
 
I'd like to see a statement as well from Carbine, about where they are taking this game, and what is on the roadmap.
But they have been awefully quiet the last weeks.
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Maybe Carabinerious are still on the fence about what business model to go for? And this "fat cat stunt" was done to see how ppl (and their money) responed to it? And from what I've seen most ppl like it....and a few feelings are hurt due to what I would say is too hi hopes about the rewards of loyalty..
 
And even the ones that does not like a F2P model seems to want the fat cat..yes ollie? ;) (and are willing to pay for it)	
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Maybe Carabinerious are still on the fence about what business model to go for? And this "fat cat stunt" was done to see how ppl (and their money) responed to it? And from what I've seen most ppl like it....and a few feelings are hurt due to what I would say is too hi hopes about the rewards of loyalty..
 
And even the ones that does not like a F2P model seems to want the fat cat..yes ollie? ;) (and are willing to pay for it)
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			guys just stop it , if you really love wildstar then why u care if it goes B2P or F2P ? i will keep supporting the game till they really shit on me with P2W ofc if they go F2P or B2P . 	
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			Because some people have 6 monthly subs and a load of CREDD...what's gonna happen to that?  They're not gonna wait to do it because someone has 3 years of CREDD saved up are they...and how can they refund it, give them the equivalent plat back...the person might want their money back rather than plat.	
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Because some people have 6 monthly subs and a load of CREDD...what's gonna happen to that? They're not gonna wait to do it because someone has 3 years of CREDD saved up are they...and how can they refund it, give them the equivalent plat back...the person might want their money back rather than plat.
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They are not changing the business model.
 
They are shutting down the servers - to expansive to run only with sub from current players. 	
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Yes...
 
That's exactly the feeling I'm getting right now :(	
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I have a 3 month recurring sub, CREDD, and another month coming my way with this box.
 
Do you REALLY think that Carbine will just screw over their customers and render long term subs and CREDD worthless?
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			I would NEVER expect NCsoft to just shut down wildstar without having tried the B2P/F2P model first. Therefore I think all months of subscription and Creed is pretty safe. Safe as in it will probably be converted to the "new currency". I seem to remember SWTOR did something like this way back when their model changed...there was some kind of conversion of some sort....	
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Do you REALLY think it's actually CRB's decision? They wouldn't have released when they did if it was their decision.
 
I fully expect NCSOFT or someone to pull the plug whenever they feel like it. They wont give a toss about you if it is going F2P will they..they've got your money.
 
You are "just a number" in this you know.
 
What they can do is stop the sub at the end of the month and refund the rest. What do they do with CREDD?
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Except a lot of people don't find it scummy at all.
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We all have our opinions.
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And even the ones that does not like a F2P model seems to want the fat cat..yes ollie? ;) (and are willing to pay for it)
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I may, in fact, have an overblown sense of justice. I don't know- but it's part of who I am. Being valued as a customer is important to me. I don't expect extra perks for being a customer, but I don't like being treated second class compared to new recruits.
 
I remember once when I used to have a DVR, and the dual tuner DVRs came out. My provider was offering free dual tuner DVRs for new customers as part of a promotion. Well, I got a free DVR when I signed up, so I didn't begrudge that. But I did want a dual tuner so I called them up and asked to buy one. They said "No, those are for new customers only." I said "You don't understand- I'm not asking for the free promotion- I just want to upgrade". They said "No- those are for new customers only." And so I told them I was canceling immediately. That's garbage, and I don't want to be treated that way. Of course, they didn't actually let me cancel and upgraded me immediately, but I was never a fan of them after that (and eventually did cancel my service when it made sense to move on). I shouldn't have had to threaten them just to get the same product they were offering new customers.
 
So yeah, that's who I am. Don't make me, as a customer, regret being a faithful patron. And certainly don't try to sell me a product I already have. You can find a better way.	
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When I saw the vid I thought the fat cat looked cool and fun. I might have even used some idle time to grind for it.
 
Now that I know what it represents, I would feel gross ever using one in game.
 
(This is my opinion. It may not be shared by anyone else, and I don't claim to represent anyone else. But it IS how I feel about this thing).
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I may, in fact, have an overblown sense of justice. I don't know- but it's part of who I am. Being valued as a customer is important to me. I don't expect extra perks for being a customer, but I don't like being treated second class compared to new recruits.
 
I remember once when I used to have a DVR, and the dual tuner DVRs came out. My provider was offering free dual tuner DVRs for new customers as part of a promotion. Well, I got a free DVR when I signed up, so I didn't begrudge that. But I did want a dual tuner so I called them up and asked to buy one. They said "No, those are for new customers only." I said "You don't understand- I'm not asking for the free promotion- I just want to upgrade". They said "No- those are for new customers only." And so I told them I was canceling immediately. That's garbage, and I don't want to be treated that way. Of course, they didn't actually let me cancel and upgraded me immediately, but I was never a fan of them after that (and eventually did cancel my service when it made sense to move on). I shouldn't have had to threaten them just to get the same product they were offering new customers.
 
So yeah, that's who I am. Don't make me, as a customer, regret being a faithful patron. And certainly don't try to sell me a product I already have. You can find a better way.
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But I will also fight you if you mean that no one should be able to buy it with real life money;)
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Well, then fight me. Because I don't want to play a game in which real life money is the primary means of acquiring stuff in game.
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Well, then fight me. Because I don't want to play a game in which real life money is the primary means of acquiring stuff in game.
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But we are fighting over you dont want cash shop in any form, and I dont mind a form of cash shop:)
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What most of us really want is “ honest “ from Carbine, we are sick to the teeth of the whole B2P F2P issue. If Carbine had come out and said “ the game is struggling financially so we are looking at other ways to support the game without it effecting our loyal sub paying community “ Most of that community would be supportive back.	
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I have a 3 month recurring sub, CREDD, and another month coming my way with this box.
 
Do you REALLY think that Carbine will just screw over their customers and render long term subs and CREDD worthless?
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			Whatever they choose to do they'll have an optional sub.	
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Whatever they choose to do they'll have an optional sub.
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Optional for Y'ALL maybe.
 
There is no "option" for me. I pay my sub in any game that offers one - and don't generally mess with those who don't. ;)
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I have a 3 month recurring sub, CREDD, and another month coming my way with this box.
 
Do you REALLY think that Carbine will just screw over their customers and render long term subs and CREDD worthless?
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I think that this is what is chapping my ass more than anything.
 
If I buy a few boxes and get the month with each box and next month Wildstar goes B2P or F2P and my sub remains in place but I get a handful of boosts and some scrolls for porting (or whatever BS the 'sub' model in a F2P or B2P gets) I'm going to be VERY disappointed.
 
I think that they will pull the plug on CREDD if they transition to a new model. It just be unavailable to buy to avoid the whole refund issue.
 
This is just my opinion. YMMV.
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I'm not sure if you played Rift at all but I thought their subscriber option was pretty good. Of course that game is freemium so the difference between subscriber and non subscriber is a little different than how I imagine it would go if it were B2P with a sub option.
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I played Rift for a while but got distracted with other games, then when it went F2P I never went back.
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I played a bit, never actually subbed though. They have a model where you get in-game bonuses for being a subscriber and you also get a certain amount of their current every month along with discounts on every store item.
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I played a bit, never actually subbed though. They have a model where you get in-game bonuses for being a subscriber and you also get a certain amount of their current every month along with discounts on every store item.
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			CREDD already affords players a buy-to-play scenario if they want it, so I don't see there being a need for change.	
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CREDD already affords players a buy-to-play scenario if they want it, so I don't see there being a need for change.
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i say this being against it as much as anyone, change is clearly in our very near future. happened to eso, happened to aion, probably happened to other games as well. this EXACT situation.
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Here's how I look at it:  This post was started yesterday.  CRB has no doubt seen it.  Someone on community has probably brought it to the attention of PR, marketing and at least one director.  They probably deliberated on how to respond to it.  Today there will be either a small desk-meeting or actual-room meeting to talk about it, and if Carbine is going to reply.  While I won't say they certainly will reply, if they decide to we would probably see it Friday/Monday.
 
Source:  This is usually how ArenaNet handled big questions like these.  Figure out how to respond, who should respond, when should they respond; with development schedules this isn't a quick process.	
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			...  also, am I mad or does the forum think I made this thread, not ministabber?	
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Here's how I look at it:  This post was started yesterday.  CRB has no doubt seen it.  Someone on community has probably brought it to the attention of PR, marketing and at least one director.  They probably deliberated on how to respond to it.  Today there will be either a small desk-meeting or actual-room meeting to talk about it, and if Carbine is going to reply.  While I won't say they certainly will reply, if they decide to we would probably see it Friday/Monday.
 
Source:  This is usually how ArenaNet handled big questions like these.  Figure out how to respond, who should respond, when should they respond; with development schedules this isn't a quick process.
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Exactly, Vince.
 
While I am sure they expected some rumblings from the community, they likely didn't expect so much noise, so quickly.
 
Honestly, the only reason there is SO MUCH noise, is because the "Missing boxes in Australia" topic hit, then three hours later, we suddenly have "Mystery Boxes" ...
 
I reckon if the FIRST story had broken today, we'd've hardly noticed.
 
But because it seems like such an obvious Cause-and-Effect situation, it was easy for us to see what was going on - and probably days sooner than the PR people expected.
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But those did not have the CREDD-style wildcard.
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It's a hairy situation for sure, and I feel for anyone in Carbine's community/PR team.  The amount of work that goes in to making a public response vetted (ready) is surprisingly high.  One wrong phrasing and the entire thing can change tone.
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...  also, am I mad or does the forum think I made this thread, not ministabber?
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Very, very true .. and couple that with the basic human response of automatically looking/expecting the worse of all possible outcomes - doubled by the gaming communities inability to grasp that CORPORATIONS NEED MONEY TO SURVIVE - and you get exactly what we've seen here in the last two days:
 
Drama, angst, loathing, harsh words and entitlement complexes piled sky-high.
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Weeeell, I think that second part (the expecting the worst part) stems from a lot of past experiences with gamers like us.  I've noticed the WS community is of a higher age range than most MMOs, lots more 20s-30s than teens-20s.  That said, a lot of dedicated vets here have seen this sort of thing happen before in previous games.  They've also seen how NCSoft handles their Western market, so the fear and expectations are not without reason.
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Weeeell, I think that second part (the expecting the worst part) stems from a lot of past experiences with gamers like us.  I've noticed the WS community is of a higher age range than most MMOs, lots more 20s-30s than teens-20s.  That said, a lot of dedicated vets here have seen this sort of thing happen before in previous games.  They've also seen how NCSoft handles their Western market, so the fear and expectations are not without reason.
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Weeeell, I think that second part (the expecting the worst part) stems from a lot of past experiences with gamers like us.  I've noticed the WS community is of a higher age range than most MMOs, lots more 20s-30s than teens-20s.  That said, a lot of dedicated vets here have seen this sort of thing happen before in previous games.  They've also seen how NCSoft handles their Western market, so the fear and expectations are not without reason.
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All I will say is if you ever get a chance(and this has been fun to observe) when you're in a room of MMO players mention CoX and NCsoft in the same sentence and just watch their faces. That still stings a lot of people till this day...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well, as I've said before, I ain't no spring chicken. 45 years old and been an avid gamer since Pong. 
 
----
			
Look, I understand that people are angry at the box promo, and how that was a huge "f*** you" to anyone who's stood by and subbed to the game, while being ever-devoted since beta.
 
I understand that people are really upset with the complete radio silence from Carbine on the sudden promo, and what it could mean for the business model in the future.
 
I understand that people are furious at the fact that they can't have access to an exclusive item without having to spend their hard-earned dollars on ANOTHER box copy, which they already bought.
 
But can't we give Carbine the benefit of the doubt here? I'm not saying they won't change the business model, and I'm definitely not claiming to know what the future holds for the game...
 
But in my honest opinion, Carbine has done a pretty great job with this game so far - they've introduced some really ground-breaking gameplay styles, some ingenious end-game content, enthralling solo-player immersion, and overall a solid end-product with the introductions of Drops 3 & 4.
 
We've had this constant doomsayer, "F2P incoming!" bullshit since Day 1, guys! People have gone out of their way to make this community toxic, and out to do nothing but be detrimental and belligerent in an attempt to do anything possible to hurt the game and it's player base. We've literally been dealing with:
 
"This game sucks"
"I'll never play this game unless it goes F2P"
"Can't believe anyone would pay a subscription fee for this game"
"This game isn't B2P, CREDD doesn't make it B2P!" (lolwut on this one)
 
The game could go F2P/B2P. The game could lose a lot of it's very loyal player-base that have been here since Closed Beta days. A lot of things could go downhill. 
 
But before we grab the pitchforks and start to assault a company that we've been rooting for - couldn't we at least calm ourselves, and wait for them to speak up? What sense is there in getting all hyped up over something that may/may not happen? Let's keep our chins up, and hope for the best.
 
I'll be right there with you guys in being extremely disappointed if the business model changes, believe me. I've been here since August of 2013, and have been actually following the game since ~2011-2012. I've put a lot into the game, and I would hate to watch all that be figuratively "washed away" because of the business model change.
 
To sum up - I'm giving Carbine the benefit of the doubt on this one. Let's not be so quick to jump to conclusions, and being rabble rousing. We all love this game, and we all want it to succeed - senseless and baseless anger and accusations won't solve anything.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Look, I understand that people are angry at the box promo, and how that was a huge "f*** you" to anyone who's stood by and subbed to the game, while being ever-devoted since beta.
 
I understand that people are really upset with the complete radio silence from Carbine on the sudden promo, and what it could mean for the business model in the future.
 
I understand that people are furious at the fact that they can't have access to an exclusive item without having to spend their hard-earned dollars on ANOTHER box copy, which they already bought.
 
But can't we give Carbine the benefit of the doubt here? [snip].
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
All I will say is if you ever get a chance(and this has been fun to observe) when you're in a room of MMO players mention CoX and NCsoft in the same sentence and just watch their faces. That still stings a lot of people till this day...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Part of why people were rooting for Carbine to succeed despite being part of the NCSoft umbrella is because they've been straight with the player base for the most part.  "Radio silence" as you put it pretty much means that if there's a response it's getting a full PR review.  In other words there's an excellent chance we're going to be fed a bunch of spin.
 
I hope I'm wrong.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
the gaming communities inability to grasp that CORPORATIONS NEED MONEY TO SURVIVE
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Putting a mount in game that's right in my face and primarily acquired for real world money- it just changes the game for me.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm not following . . .
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
CREDD had the potential to do this for me, but since it wasn't really enticing for me, I could just ignore it and let that be other peoples problem. Putting a mount in game that's right in my face and primarily acquired for real world money- it just changes the game for me. 
----
			I really don't see what the big deal is with having a couple mounts in a box as a promo. A lot of MMO's implement a cash shop eventually and this isn't that far off from that. If you want it, buy it. If not, who cares? There are plenty of other mounts/rare items available that don't need to be purchased.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I really don't see what the big deal is with having a couple mounts in a box as a promo. A lot of MMO's implement a cash shop eventually and this isn't that far off from that. If you want it, buy it. If not, who cares? There are plenty of other mounts/rare items available that don't need to be purchased.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If its a cosmetic mount whats the issue, if its a mount that is the same as the ones you can buy for 10 currency i see no problem theres no power gain in it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So people aren't supposed to care about cosmetics in a game that is trying to encourage people to spend money on cosmetics?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I've worked for ANet, played CoH for 8 years, Exteel for 6 months, Lineage for 2 years, a bit of Dungeon Runners, 3 months of Auto Assault, and a bit of Tabula Rasa.
 
The fact that I'm playing Wildstar is a testament to how much I like it. I cried for days when CoH closed, and I have an Atlas Park 33 tattoo on my arm. I think it'd sting less if there was an actual stated reason for the shutdown and not the corporate BS they fed us 3 years ago.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You're stressing over what someone else spent. That's what I'm saying.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
No. You aren't.
 
If you want it, then buy it. If you don't, then don't. That's the only choice you have to make. Everything else is pure entitlement, man.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 But that doesn't make every action they take acceptable to me.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I really don't see what the big deal is with having a couple mounts in a box as a promo. A lot of MMO's implement a cash shop eventually and this isn't that far off from that. If you want it, buy it. If not, who cares? There are plenty of other mounts/rare items available that don't need to be purchased.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You're stressing over what someone else spent. That's what I'm saying.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Anyway, I'm sorry for beating a dead horse. I'm just going to head home, play some Wildstar and come back tomorrow - and I'll just stick to Morning Coffee! ;)
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I really don't see what the big deal is with having a couple mounts in a box as a promo. A lot of MMO's implement a cash shop eventually and this isn't that far off from that. If you want it, buy it. If not, who cares? There are plenty of other mounts/rare items available that don't need to be purchased.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 When a company gives potential players better stuff than existing players, that's disrespectful to me as a consumer. Is it "entitled" to think I deserve whatever is given to newer players. It's just respectful to your player base to do that.
----
			I would also like to know whether or not a payment model change is inc. I don't think it's very necessary, but I'd still like to know. Preferably would like to be reassured that it's NOT happening.	
----
			
I think in all honesty we should just chill out relax and wait for an official response.
 
Despite what we feel about B2P/F2P/Sub model its all in the hands of carbine.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think in all honesty we should just chill out relax and wait for an official response.
 
Despite what we feel about B2P/F2P/Sub model its all in the hands of carbine.
----
			
I wish ppl stop making these posts... on the forums... reddit etc .... they will tell us if and when they are ready too... theres nothing me, you or anyone else can do or say about it.
Making 50+ threads on multiple sources will not get an answer faster.
 
Sorry to be blunt its the truth.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I wish ppl stop making these posts... on the forums... reddit etc .... they will tell us if and when they are ready too... theres nothing me, you or anyone else can do or say about it.
Making 50+ threads on multiple sources will not get an answer faster.
 
Sorry to be blunt its the truth.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If it was that easy I'd have quit CoH to save it.   :(
----
			
Honestly i dont understand why some people are against f2p/b2p.
Sure i prefer paying sub and even if it goes f2p i will continue to pay sub if i still have that option but game needs more players and it needs to make more money in order to fund future content.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think, for the survival of this industry you need to stop playing MMOs, you harbinger!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I've never wanted to hug someone before(well excp Olivar, because he hates being hugged)...
*hug* shhhhhh is okie...is okie...
----
			
The thing I like about B2P/F2P is that you actually can buy fluff with real money, instead of endless farming in game to get something that does not make you more powerfull. Personally I love and need to look what i think is cool in any game I play. There are many games I dont play due to I cant look cool (or in terms of Tomb raider...I dont wanna play a woman) so for me a cash shop is a wonderfull thing. Just as in life...the one with money can buy something extra cool comparred to the guys without money. And that is a perfect system. You cant buy love with real life money, but you sure can come quite a long way in that aspect too;) With money and looking cool in RL you pretty much can "own the world".
 
THAT was the good thing about GW2...that you could buy cool costumes etc....SADLY there is something wrong with the male human hips in GW2...in terms that you pretty much had to cover up the hips with knee lengt coats....the continues sad part is that the guy modelling the coats did a pretty bad job and they just look WRONG! (imo)...I have played gw2 since launch...I STILL use the same tolerable coat i got at level 20....THATS just bad:( And the black lion chest was way way to random and close to gambling that I never bought one! In gambling you know that you will most likely loose, because if it was not so there would be no gambling....(gambling company MUST make profit..and profit comes from ppl loosing their money)
 
BUT Gw2 had the potential!...just not the good art...
 
WS has great ART (and hot looking male models) and I would love a similar cash shop in WS:)
 
I would also like to pay an optional subscription per month like SWTOR does....for the common services etc:)
 
But please..let me be able to get something extra fluffy with real life money..just as you can in real life:)	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I've never wanted to hug someone before(well excp Olivar, because he hates being hugged)...
*hug* shhhhhh is okie...is okie...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I wish ppl stop making these posts... on the forums... reddit etc .... they will tell us if and when they are ready too... theres nothing me, you or anyone else can do or say about it.
Making 50+ threads on multiple sources will not get an answer faster.
 
Sorry to be blunt its the truth.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
The thread was made because we are all sick of it! We are sick of all the threads here, we are sick of them on reddit, we are sick of them on every part of the internet.
 
Next week all the EU community team are flying over to NA for meetings, they have been before but this time instead of 2+2 =4 it will now add up to 5.
 
A simple honest yes or no from Carbine could end all this, for sure shit will hit the fan at first! It just seems they are playing politics by leaking out bad news ( or good ) so Joe public accepts it when it eventually lands.
 
----
			The best part was all the talk of adding a cash shop to the game between players before they did this promotion, people were into it as long it was just cosmetic/mounts.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The best part was all the talk of adding a cash shop to the game between players before they did this promotion, people were into it as long it was just cosmetic/mounts.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The best part was all the talk of adding a cash shop to the game between players before they did this promotion, people were into it as long it was just cosmetic/mounts.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Not all of us . . .
----
			And here I am watching the dev tracker ever since this whole drama started and not a single answer from Carbine, I did however see a french community manager, post a wall of text describing that you can't describe P2W. Funny really.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And here I am watching the dev tracker ever since this whole drama started and not a single answer from Carbine, I did however see a dev, post a wall of text describing that you can't describe P2W. Funny really.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Just as a clarification that was from our French Community Manager, not a dev. :)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And here I am watching the dev tracker ever since this whole drama started and not a single answer from Carbine, I did however see a french community manager, post a wall of text describing that you can't describe P2W. Funny really.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The best part was all the talk of adding a cash shop to the game between players before they did this promotion, people were into it as long it was just cosmetic/mounts.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If they go F2P I hope they do it like RIFT and not like SWTOR. 
----
			
Please, Wildstar, liiive, LIIIVE!
This box thing ain't making things look good.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And here I am watching the dev tracker ever since this whole drama started and not a single answer from Carbine, I did however see a french community manager, post a wall of text describing that you can't describe P2W. Funny really.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Or NCsoft says well we got rid of all the boxes lets close it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Although I also would love to see a more direct exposition on WS's future re: payment model, I actually agree with Youmukon on that point. I remember googling definitions of B2P in the past to clarify an argument I was having in another MMO, and it wasn't clear-cut. And I've seen a lot of definitions since then, from these forums and others.
 
At this point I feel the exact same way about F2P. I'm tired of trying to make rational or morale arguments about a system that is not only interpreted uniquely by devs, but by a large number of the people who play their games.
 
The first thing I remember in philosophy class: Define your terms. Two brilliant people arguing past each other will accomplish little; rather, they'll probably get emotional about it because confusion undermines rational thought, especially when any semblance of ego or apathy is involved— which are both incredibly common to people who like to debate or argue on the internet.
 
What is F2P? What is B2P? Better, what's good and what's bad about them? Good and bad for who, how many? For how long? What are the limitations?
 
So many questions for so many armchair developers (myself included) who all have personal stake in the argument. It's not pretty and I'm not sure it's ever been productive.
 
Anyway, don't mean to shut people down with this. Speak your mind, I obviously am. But I think Youmukon is fundamentally correct.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
See, they can be defined :)  Feel free to discuss or ignore, but I think I kept that mostly bias free... mostly.
----
			
Live stream next week hosts all the community managers from overseas.
 
If they're all there in person, at the same time, I'd say that's pretty compelling evidence that something big is coming.
 
Keep in mind, Carbine let players leave and servers die before they formally announced megaservers.
 
I doubt Carbine will announce a payment model change until the day it rolls out.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Live stream next week hosts all the community managers from overseas.
 
If they're all there in person, at the same time, I'd say that's pretty compelling evidence that something big is coming.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Anyway, don't mean to shut people down with this. Speak your mind, I obviously am. But I think Youmukon is fundamentally correct.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
... 0_o This isn't the first time the EU team has been in the NA offices or on the stream.. it sort of happens, with you know.. work.. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Actually, Youmukon was focusing on P2W and not B2P at all. Not at all interested in going through the argument again, but we can at least be accurate about the content of the post.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
... 0_o This isn't the first time the EU team has been in the NA offices or on the stream.. it sort of happens, with you know.. work..
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You will quickly realize that I was in fact, pretty obviously, talking about P2W and not B2P. So my mistake, but rather than pointing out the typo for what it is you seize on it as a way to undermine me.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Calm yourself, please. I'm not trying to undermine you, I'm trying to correct something we both agree was an error. Could I have been gentler about it? Sure. My apologies for being more abrasive than I could have been as I made the correction. Truth be told, I was more focused in my proofread before posting on the actual main topic we're talking about, which isn't at all about P2W or B2P.
----
			
I hope it is honestly, and people should stop demanding answers and acting like Carbine is snickering with a 80s villain mustache. They cannot say any details right now, the transition probably isn't done yet and they are still working on when it is coming and how it will be implemented...AKA, THEY CANT TALK ABOUT IT YET.
 
If they use Tera or RIFT f2p I won't mind.
If they go ESO or GW2 b2p than I wont mind.
 
As long as it gets Wildstar more money and more players which would equal more content...I really dont care what payment model they have	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
/preachy sermon concluded  ;)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I hope it is honestly, and people should stop demanding answers and acting like Carbine is snickering with a 80s villain mustache. They cannot say any details right now, the transition probably isn't done yet and they are still working on when it is coming and how it will be implemented...AKA, THEY CANT TALK ABOUT IT YET.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
They do after all have CREDD, which is p2w.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So is this where the thread turns into arguing about P2W like several other threads have?
 
On a less sarcastic note, please don't spread that crap.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You mean like the way they were forced to refund all kinds of server transfer fees?  Because I remember people losing their minds over the way Carbine kept paid transfers up until the point that they announced Megaservers:
 
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/111868-megaserver-feedback-thread/page-2?hl=voodoo&do=findComment&comment=1160302
 
Yea, I think there is definitely little evil somewhere in that building.  They do after all have CREDD, which is p2w.
----
			The way I see it, Carbine is probably either going to change WildStar's business model or add a cash shop to the game without changing its business model. In either of those cases, they really can't say what they're going to do until the promotion is over, as any announcement now would deter boxes from being sold.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The way I see it, Carbine is probably either going to change WildStar's business model or add a cash shop to the game without changing its business model. In any of those cases, they really can't say what they're going to do until the promotion is over, as any announcement now would deter boxes from being sold.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
From what I see, they're going the TERA route with this promotion, since I can't seem to find an end date for this promotion.
----
			
Deirdre DD Hollis @CRB_Sunshine
At 5PM pst, 4/19, @Strange_Tales podcast is going live, and giving away a promo item! Oh, and an interview with me!!!!
 
The chances of them asking the questions ? Very high if they don't want to come out of the show looking like a set of court jesters! But I suspect each question will have a get out of jail card worded into it for CRB_Sunshine.
 
The chances of us learning anything ? Zero to minus fifty
 
 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/	
----
			
Oh this is just great , from reddit 
 
So, it seems they still find this more funny then we do? What kind of response is that? Is there some kind of irony i'm missing?
 
Also, this makes the 3rd store removing the boxes?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So, it seems they still find this more funny then we do? What kind of response is that? Is there some kind of irony i'm missing?
 
Also, this makes the 3rd store removing the boxes?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It is actually freaking hilarious, because players are here spinning their own minds into a tizzy over nothing.
 
You should check Best Buy for Final Fantasy XIV - it's on clearance too. Probably going free to play, huh?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well people are spinning because they are in the dark, that's the whole point. 
The comment can also be interpreted as in " haha yeah sure keep on thinking this game is gonna change its payment model, won't happen " 
 
But unless they actually do make a statement this will only get worse, can you imagine how many people are now in limbo whether or not to invest (again) in Wildstar or not?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I don't follow... Carbine has not announced anything but a new promotion, which any number of game companies do any given week. Yet somehow, "silence" here is supposed to mean something?
 
Look, WildStar isn't going free to play. If they do switch to a buy to play model you still have to buy the box. No one should feel like they are in limbo.
 
----
			
First off, I had always been set against f2p, b2p whatever. But now, if it brings in more players, then I am for anything! With d5 coming, several I know believe it will be the end of Dominion in PvP. I really hope not. I absolutely want to see the availability to level via PvP. I would absolutely love to see Warhound come alive again so I can go back to open world PvP. I despise just staying in Thayd queuing for everything. I miss the open world PvP fights so much, specially when finally in zone Whitevale when it begins. This will be the first MMO I will choose to stay and play if it goes f2p.
 
Second, as to the boxes and new items, I totally disagree it's a slap in the face to those of us who are the loyal players. I paid $22 on Amazon for total of 6 copies. I got 6x30 gaming time, 3 fat cat mounts, and 3 costumes. I was one of the first(if not the actual first person) to show off my fat cat on Entity Exile side and loved every minute of it. I sold the other car for 100plt, gave a costume to a friend, traded one for the hoverboard and kept the other for myself. I regret none of that. Oh, and now have the title, so I'm happy. I already had year sub till November this year and now I'm good till April 2016.
 
So, honestly, I just don't understand why people think that idea was a slap in face to is loyal players. The price was worth it in so many ways! 
 
In conclusion, whatever they decide, I will support the decision. Whatever brings in players, I say do it!!! 
 
#saveopenworldpvp	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So, honestly, I just don't understand why people think that idea was a slap in face to is loyal players. The price was worth it in so many ways!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So, honestly, I just don't understand why people think that idea was a slap in face to is loyal players. The price was worth it in so many ways
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Because some of believed that the hundred of dollars we've spent on this game should be enough they shouldn't be trying to sell us more stuff on top of that.
----
			
CREDD is an abstract item in the game world.
CREDD is time.
 
The use of CREDD does not gate anyone from any item in the game.
And everyone has access to the purchase of time, since it's pretty much a requirement for a p2p game...	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
CREDD is an abstract item in the game world.
CREDD is time.
 
The use of CREDD does not gate anyone from any item in the game.
And everyone has access to the purchase of time, since it's pretty much a requirement for a p2p game...
----
			
CREDD is time.
They are spending money on tradeable time.
Time is worth plat.
You earn plat by spending time playing the game.
You (can) earn time by spending plat.
If a person who bought CREDD with money doesn't feel like selling their CREDD for whatever reason, they can pop it for time.
CREDD is time you can sell for plat.
 
 
I have chickens.
They do not lay dollars.  They lay eggs.
I CAN sell these eggs for money, but they don't magically turn into money once the hen lays them.
Sometimes I eat them.
Eggs are nutrition.
CREDD is time.
 
 
 
The difference between someone going out and purchasing a game card for money and selling it for plat, vs purchasing a box code and selling the item for plat is one character gets to play the game for a little longer and one character has access to items that no one in the game can access without literally hunting down that physical item or having someone do it for them.
 
 
CREDD is purchaseable online by anyone with a limited quantity of the amount of days you've left to live.
A box key is only available in select locations, in very limited quantities, at varying costs.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If a person who bought CREDD with money doesn't feel like selling their CREDD for whatever reason, they can pop it for time.
----
			Literally all of my friends that I've talked to about the game said they would play Wildstar if it went F2P/B2P..	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Literally all of my friends that I've talked to about the game said they would play Wildstar if it went F2P/B2P..
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
=$15 = 30 days of playtime
$20 = 1 CREDD token
1 CREDD token = 30 days of playtime
 
$15 = 30 days of playtime = 1 CREDD token = $20.
$15 = $20.
1 = 1.33333.
 
Oops. That doesn't make sense, does it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well, it does when you factor in that the .33333 in that equation is profit to Carbine from CREDD sales.  I think we've talked this math before, actually.
----
			
Yasfan yasfan yasfan
1, how someone decides to waste their money has no real reason to argue over,
 
2, Take your eyes off the trade screen for just a second and realize that paying for one tradeable game data is not the same as paying for another entirely different set of tradeable ingame data.
It's not the acquisition that makes them different IT'S WHAT THEY ARE. Don't you dare steal my colors again! >:K
 
The fact that CREDD is tradable time and mystery boxes are physical box exclusive costumes and mounts is what fundamentally destroys any kind of CREDD-based justification for them, because paying for time is an inevitable part of playing a p2p game.
 
CREDD exists to    1, be a way to compete with gold sellers who would be hosting this little service anyway just reversed and against the TOS.
2, offer a balance between those irl frugal hardcores (no job, many hours) and the irl spendy casuals (many jobs, no hours)
CREDD is a way for someone to pay for someone else's game time safely in exchange for some of the plat they made in the months prior.
CREDD is a consumable that has no noticeable effect on any character outside of the second and a half it takes to do the consuming animation. There is almost no difference between an account that has consumed CREDD and a character who has ignored the system entirely.  The only difference between the two camps would be wallet size  and that varies far more dramatically based on effort and luck than it does based on the existence of CREDD.
 
Mystery boxes exist to     1. Remove WildStar boxes from retail locations that were going to do nothing for the game except maybe get shipped back to NCSoft and look really embarrassing on paper.
2. Grant a random in-game item to whoever buys it.
The items in the mystery boxes are costumes and mounts that are extremely different than anything acquirable in the game
The difference between those who open mystery boxes and those who ignore it, is group number 1 has access to items that group number 2 will never ever have.  Those who ignore mystery boxes are now excluded from completing achievements, collecting all the mounts, and collecting all the costumes.
 
 
O, and that $15=$20 thing.
This is not the correct logic to apply to this situation.
 
Because, well
12 1month subscriptions =  $180 = 360 days
2 6month subscriptions = $156 = 360 days
360 days = 360 days
Therefore $180 = $156?????
 
 
Sometimes the same number of units can be priced at different values, in different containers, depending on their flexibility/convenience. 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well, it does when you factor in that the .33333 in that equation is profit to Carbine from CREDD sales.  I think we've talked this math before, actually.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Literally all of my friends that I've talked to about the game said they would play Wildstar if it went F2P/B2P..
----
			Has anyone with a triple-digit IQ ever paid cash money for CREDD for the purpose of redeeming it for game time rather than selling it for plat? This argument is just hilariously dumb.	
----