127041-loyalty-rewards-feedback-discussion-title-mount-etc-page-5

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I am not sure that purchasing CREDD for sale will count. They have only said that if you pay for your sub via CREDD, it counts as a subscription (at least that I've seen). Do you have links to show that purchasing CREDD will result in higher rewards above and beyond any sub time you've bought? It would be interesting if so, because then CREDD will result in double-dipping on the loyalty system, and people can (conceivably) buy CREDD and redeem it on the same account and get twice as many loyalty points.
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Everyone that spends money earn loyalty points including the ones who join for F2P. They're giving current subscribers their points retroactively, it can't be compared to the player appreciation rewards.
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EDIT: Wait. Are you seriously suggesting that people be allowed to retrospectively pay for months they didn't sub for, in order to be eligible for the mount and title?
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We get it. You really want the mount.
 
EDIT: Wait. Are you seriously suggesting that people be allowed to retrospectively pay for months they didn't sub for, in order to be eligible for the mount and title?
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I think the simple answer is that they're not measuring financial support...  
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			I'm pretty sure that the loyalty system will work the same way it works in Rift. It will be based on a scale and once you reach a certain point you'll get the reward. So even if you sub after the game goes F2P or happen to have skipped a few months, sooner or later you should be able to get the appropriate loyalty rewards. At least that would be best in Carbine's interest.	
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I'm pretty sure that the loyalty system will work the same way it works in Rift. It will be based on a scale and once you reach a certain point you'll get the reward. So even if you sub after the game goes F2P, sooner or later you should be able to get the appropriate loyalty rewards. At least that would be best in Carbine's interest.
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Yeah, that seems to be exactly what they're going for with the Loyalty Program. :) From what I understand based on what CRB_DaOgre said in the Feedback thread, subbing (with cash, CREDD or game time card), buying CREDD from Carbine and making purchases off the Cash Shop will give Loyalty Points.
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			I do think there is more to the Loyalty Points system than just that, because there was mention on the livestream of some place to go and spend the points as well as bonuses for filling up the thermometer.  A place with unique items and not copies of what is on the cash shop, so its not some form of stipend.	
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			I want the place where we can spend our loyalty points to be a huge Protostar shopping mall.	
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I want the place where we can spend our loyalty points to be a huge Protostar shopping mall.
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So stop conflating them?
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			The issue was I made it in its own thread too close to the actual f2p announcement. There was concern that it would turn into a "what should be sold on the store" thread instead of actually being about the mall. I was asked to wait a bit. I'll probably post it again soon, because I think it could be fun.	
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I do think there is more to the Loyalty Points system than just that, because there was mention on the livestream of some place to go and spend the points as well as bonuses for filling up the thermometer.  A place with unique items and not copies of what is on the cash shop, so its not some form of stipend.
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Aw, why waste time making something awesome like an in-game mall, when you can just click an icon and open a thrilling and exciting IN-GAME WINDOW!!!!
 
Seriously, guize. Sheesh. It's about making endless money, not making players happy with fancy graphics and interesting characters.  :P
 
Plus, a mall would be a location. Locations are content. We can't expect content *and* a cash shop at the same time!	
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Aw, why waste time making something awesome like an in-game mall, when you can just click an icon and open a thrilling and exciting IN-GAME WINDOW!!!!
 
Seriously, guize. Sheesh. It's about making endless money, not making players happy with fancy graphics and interesting characters.  :P
 
Plus, a mall would be a location. Locations are content. We can't expect content *and* a cash shop at the same time!
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Why waste art resources building brick and mortar cash shops in the game world when they could be designing new gameplay areas instead?  If a significant number of players wish to roleplay the transactions, drop another barker down in Fortune's Ground and have done.
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Why waste art resources building brick and mortar cash shops in the game world when they could be designing new gameplay areas instead?  If a significant number of players wish to roleplay the transactions, drop another barker down in Fortune's Ground and have done.
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Why waste art resources building brick and mortar cash shops in the game world when they could be designing new gameplay areas instead?  If a significant number of players wish to roleplay the transactions, drop another barker down in Fortune's Ground and have done.
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Let's just turn that protostar housing initiative into a shopping mall. Bang, done!
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			Little disappointed we couldn't get an official response from Carbine about this issue. Not that I have much control over it either way since I plan to stay subbed until F2P. Though I do hope I won't run into any issues that causes a lapse between now and then.	
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			I really hope to see an official response on this sometime soon. I believe carbine is making some kind of wise decision regarding this matter. The only reason I have stayed subbed this last month and until f2p is because I believe carbine will make this right. I was unsubbed for a couple minutes at one point because I don't like automatic payments . If hate to be left out because of that.	
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 I was unsubbed for a couple minutes at one point because I don't like automatic payments . If hate to be left out because of that.
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But, I mean... even in the loosest definition of loyalty... surely you would agree that wouldn't meet it, yes? I mean, what is Carbine supposed to do? 
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No, I'd call that an extraordinarily stringent definition of loyalty, actually.
 
They can do it if they want, but let's not pretend that what they're doing is compatible with a "loose" definition of what could reasonably be considered loyal among the many options they provide for fulfilling their requirements for payment.
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No need for a rationale. There is this :
 
 
 
And there is that :
 
 
 
Which one is most pleasing to the eye ?	
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			the first one. Second one makes me dizzy.	
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I didn't expect an answer of course, because there isn't any reasonable explanation as to why that player would qualify for all rewards.
 
As far as black and white? Yes, Carbine has already defined it.	
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No need for a rationale. There is this :
{snip}
 
 
And there is that :
{snip}
 
 
Which one is most pleasing to the eye ?
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I didn't expect an answer of course, because there isn't any reasonable explanation as to why that player would qualify for all rewards.
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Noise exists. That's all the rationale required.
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I didn't expect an answer of course, because there isn't any reasonable explanation as to why that player would qualify for all rewards.
 
As far as black and white? Yes, Carbine has already defined it.
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of course there is, you just don't want to see it. missing a couple of minutes, even hours or days, in over a year should not mean a player is considered not loyal. Carbine's and your definition of loyal is unreasonably strict.
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Lethality, I feel like you're either reading that post wrong or there's some other miscommunication happening here. Because the position you're arguing otherwise, if I take you at face value, is laughably unreasonable.
 
Just to be clear, you're saying that a person who was unsubbed from the game for a span of mere minutes or hours over the course of an entire year does not deserve the reward? Is it because they chose to cancel automatic renewal? Do you feel they don't deserve it because they didn't sign up for the 1-year continuous membership and instead went with the monthly option? I'm struggling to see how you can logically support your viewpoint, outside of being an elitist robot.	
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Lethality, I feel like you're either reading that post wrong or there's some other miscommunication happening here. Because the position you're arguing otherwise, if I take you at face value, is laughably unreasonable.
 
Just to be clear, you're saying that a person who was unsubbed from the game for a span of mere minutes or hours over the course of an entire year does not deserve the reward? Is it because they chose to cancel automatic renewal? Do you feel they don't deserve it because they didn't sign up for the 1-year continuous membership and instead went with the monthly option? I'm struggling to see how you can logically support your viewpoint, outside of being an elitist robot.
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Miscommunication is definitely going on :)
 
This person was not unsubbed for "mere minutes" but months... and he'd "hate to be left out because of that." That is what I find unreasonable.
 
If you read my last sentence in the post above yours, you'll see where I stand and what I think Carbine should do.
 
Edit: DOH! He does say minutes!  My bad.  
 
So that means that my proposal would cover this particular player and anyone who had minutes, hours, days or even weeks lapse. As long as they had active game time during at least a part of every single month from launch to f2p.
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Phew. Glad we got that sorted, I thought I was going crazy for a bit there, haha :D
 
And agreed about some leniency to cover payment mishaps. Digital River has a spotty history with some people, and sometimes credit cards don't get charged in time if the renewal falls on a weekend, etc.	
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			As for the bit that read, "of course there is, you just don't want to see it. missing a couple of minutes, even hours or days, in over a year should not mean a player is considered not loyal. Carbine's and your definition of loyal is unreasonably strict." -- as has been stated; people are again confusing the appreciation-rewards for the loyalty-program.  The appreciation-rewards have zero to do with "loyalty" and more to do with uninterrupted subscription, even if they did foolishly use "loyal" in the description.  The idea of "loyal" or "not loyal" will come more into points earned for said loyalty (or rather money spent).	
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It has little to do with semantics anymore, and I'm not sure why people are still getting so hung up on wording.
 
The point is that uninterrupted subscription time is an absolutely awful metric to use for ANYTHING. There are people who had recurring subscriptions set up and they'll miss out because their bank or Digital River messed something up for a single minute. It's good for a single reason, and likely the reason Carbine chose this method: it's easy for them to enforce. It's an absolute line in the sand.
 
And to go on a bit of a tangent, if I'm being honest here (and I think this is where I'm going to lose people), the "loyal" people who have been playing this game on CREDD the whole time matter less than the ones who actually gave money to Carbine to help keep the ship afloat, whether that be the ones who maintained a cash subscription or those who purchased CREDD with money. If the purpose is indeed to thank the people who kept the game alive in its roughest hour, the people who were playing for free did little to contribute to the game's success. With some exceptions of course; I'm sure some streamers and famous Reddit faces played on CREDD, but I'll wager that the vast majority of the player base doesn't participate in player advertising of any sort. But rewarding what actually matters to the company in this crucial hour ($$) makes it look like pay-to-win and would come with even more accusations (of greed, of ignoring "loyal" people who played every day in favor of those who paid their way, and so on). There are probably people who weren't here from the beginning but have bought enough CREDD (or boxes for the current promo) to more than make up for the year's worth of subscription payments. I'd say they deserve it more than the play-by-CREDD folks, but I'm sure that makes me a dirty capitalist or something.
 
So instead of rewarding those people who kept the game afloat, we've got this half-assed, strict but nonsensical definition of a loyalty reward that includes people who may have spent $40 max on the game over its entire lifetime.	
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It has little to do with semantics anymore, and I'm not sure why people are still getting so hung up on wording.
 
The point is that uninterrupted subscription time is an absolutely awful metric to use for ANYTHING. There are people who had recurring subscriptions set up and they'll miss out because their bank or Digital River messed something up for a single minute. It's good for a single reason, and likely the reason Carbine chose this method: it's easy for them to enforce. It's an absolute line in the sand.
 
And to go on a bit of a tangent, if I'm being honest here (and I think this is where I'm going to lose people), the "loyal" people who have been playing this game on CREDD the whole time matter less than the ones who actually gave money to Carbine to help keep the ship afloat, whether that be the ones who maintained a cash subscription or those who purchased CREDD with money. If the purpose is indeed to thank the people who kept the game alive in its roughest hour, the people who were playing for free did little to contribute to the game's success. With some exceptions of course; I'm sure some streamers and famous Reddit faces played on CREDD, but I'll wager that the vast majority of the player base doesn't participate in player advertising of any sort. But rewarding what actually matters to the company in this crucial hour ($$) makes it look like pay-to-win and would come with even more accusations (of greed, of ignoring "loyal" people who played every day in favor of those who paid their way, and so on). There are probably people who weren't here from the beginning but have bought enough CREDD (or boxes for the current promo) to more than make up for the year's worth of subscription payments. I'd say they deserve it more than the play-by-CREDD folks, but I'm sure that makes me a dirty capitalist or something.
 
So instead of rewarding those people who kept the game afloat, we've got this half-assed, strict but nonsensical definition of a loyalty reward that includes people who may have spent $40 max on the game over its entire lifetime.
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As for the bit that read, "of course there is, you just don't want to see it. missing a couple of minutes, even hours or days, in over a year should not mean a player is considered not loyal. Carbine's and your definition of loyal is unreasonably strict." -- as has been stated; people are again confusing the appreciation-rewards for the loyalty-program.  The appreciation-rewards have zero to do with "loyalty" and more to do with uninterrupted subscription, even if they did foolishly use "loyal" in the description.  The idea of "loyal" or "not loyal" will come more into points earned for said loyalty (or rather money spent).
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OK, let's see how your point of correction changes things. Let's say the quote had instead been the more accurate "missing a couple of minutes, even hours or days, in over a year should not mean a player is less appreciated. Carbine's and your definition of the highest level of appreciation is unreasonably strict."
 
Still sounds about right to me. It's Carbine's game, they can be as strict as they want about whatever they want. But honestly, in their shoes I wouldn't really want to be trying to make it look like my corporate motto was: "We may not deliver perfection, but we expect it from you."
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Pretty certain ZombieTechnix has pointed out before, as I myself also have, and as have several others, the thoughts and feelings that if it's a short/tiny lapse that can be proven to be on the fault of Carbine's end, and not the user's end, they should be allowed an exception.  Too much putting words into peoples mouths going on around here, telling others what you assume their definitions are, as well as running circles.
 
And yeah, agreed, they can be as strict as they want to be -- as far as that motto, that was their motto, hence the whole "hardcore or go home" angle, and now the many upon many empty seats in this house.  Had to play the game perfect and do everything else perfect, otherwise, go back to whatever game you came from (paraphrasing actual forum rebuttals to those that wanted it a tad more casual).  Game was horribly broken, but the player still had to play as though it was a bright and shiny utopia with not even the slightest blemish to it.
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Not even sure where to start with this.  So will just point out the main things.  It's already been pointed out that "those buying CREDD to resell it" were ALREADY rewarded with the massive piles of platinum they got for selling it -- rewarding them again for that is double-dipping.  Secondly, a person playing by means of CREDD probably did a lot more for the game than those not, since they'd have to be actively playing and helping to populate the server, while grinding all that platinum -- as opposed to the hypothetical someone that bought a year-long sub, bought CREDD and sold it, then possibly never logged in again to play that game at all.  Sure money helps, but when a game is a ghost-town of no playing or grinding characters, what good is money when people log in, see nobody, then log back out.  And of course you put that little loophole for the "reddit faces and youtube faces that streamed on CREDD", it's okay to spit in the scrubs faces, but careful not to tick off the really popular ones right?  Gotta keep up that appearance after all.
 
Also, to poke a hole in your theory of only rewarding ($$) in this crucial hour.  As has been pointed out by several posters, a person that's paid the $180 or whatever it is, that's uninterrupted would get the mount, yet a person paying the SAME $180 with minor lapses in that time period, would not.  Therefore, not strictly about "just rewarding the ($$)".
 
Not to mention, several that used CREDD, may have more than readily had the money to use on the game, but probably found it more logical to use accumulated platinum to get CREDD, and use the money elsewhere.  That's called being "economical".  Nobody up to this point has technically been "playing for free" in any sense of that terminology.  If I have a Subway sandwich-card with all the holes punched, and opt to use it, rather than keep paying outright for my sandwiches... does that mean I'm getting a free sandwich?  Not really; it means I've earned that sandwich, the same as CREDD-players earned their CREDD.  Perhaps you've heard that saying, "nothing in life is free, there's always a string attached".
 
PS - Again, as others have stated, it's an Appreciation Reward -- loyalty rewards would be part of the loyalty system which would use loyalty-points which haven't been given out yet.
 
#WelcomeToMyVerySpecialList
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the "loyal" people who have been playing this game on CREDD the whole time
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 As the demand half of the CREDD economics, players subbing through CREDD are just as important as other subs, and in some ways more so.
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EDIT: People are still trying to play the "not loyal enough" mindset in a way of acting like they're getting NOTHING.  Players are getting a lot still that they should be THANKFUL for, a Caretaker DJ, a slug pet, a song for their housing plot, an exclusive title, and 3 or 4 months of signature-service (whichever it was), the only thing they're not being found "worthy of" is a mount and an extra title.  But continue to snub their noses at the several items they are getting, while acting like it's not good enough, in lieu of one other object.  Perhaps Carbine needs to initiate a swap-program -- those that don't qualify for the mount can trade every single other appreciation-reward to only get the mount and nothing else. :D
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That's fair, but you're still trying to play the "Hey, if you missed [insert arbitrary minor lapse in subscription here], then the support you've provided up to this point is appreciated--just as much as someone who buys the game next week. And you should be OK with that" mindset. And while we're on the subject, people can think that what they're getting is good while still recognizing that many of their peers are getting better for having put in comparable effort and support side-by-side over the course of a year.
 
I much prefer the other stuff to the mount, but I do recognize that the inherent message here to people who put in almost the maximum possible support is that their support is appreciated as much--or less flatteringly, as little--as people who don't buy the game until next week.
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I'm not trying to play anything.  I'm not the one writing the rules, nor am I one enforcing the decisions.  As I've stated NUMEROUS times before, I'm trying to be a voice of logic and reasoning.  Perhaps if you will, think of be as a debate-practice... if *I* or anybody can poke a hole SIMPLY through the logical "arguments" you or anybody bring forward in one single read through, how much more easily do you think Carbine can find that hole?  *shrugs*
 
My point all along, and remains to be, that once one exception that isn't for extraordinary reasons is allowed, then the next stretch will try to poke itself in, because that next stretch is THAT close, it's a "why not" mentality.  Then when another stretch is made, another reasoning/group that's so close will want a stretch.  As I've stated numerous times before, give them an inch, they take a mile.
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			Forgive if this has already been stated. I played beta,I played for 4 months from launch. Since I've come back (I left due to server/guild ghost town prior to megaservers) I have a cumulative 6 months subbed. I will not receive the tier 1 rewards and I shouldn't. Now the way I imagine this plays out, or hope it plays out, is that tier 1 players get the mount and other goodies once F2P hits but the items they get, except the title, will be available via loyalty points. So those who have a lot of time in, but not 100%, will have a crap ton of loyalty points at F2P launch. So say, 1 month sub or credd purchase in your account history gets 10 loyalty points per. So 9 months paid either sub/credd equals 90 points. Considering the Tier 1 = roughly 1 year the mount costs 120 loyalty points. So everyone has access to the items, even F2P players. So if sub/credd equals 10 points then maybe a character slot purchase for a F2P player equals 2 or 3 points or whatever. Idk that makes sense to me but we will see what happens.	
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Forgive if this has already been stated. I played beta,I played for 4 months from launch. Since I've come back (I left due to server/guild ghost town prior to megaservers) I have a cumulative 6 months subbed. I will not receive the tier 1 rewards and I shouldn't. Now the way I imagine this plays out, or hope it plays out, is that tier 1 players get the mount and other goodies once F2P hits but the items they get, except the title, will be available via loyalty points. So those who have a lot of time in, but not 100%, will have a crap ton of loyalty points at F2P launch. So say, 1 month sub or credd purchase in your account history gets 10 loyalty points per. So 9 months paid either sub/credd equals 90 points. Considering the Tier 1 = roughly 1 year the mount costs 120 loyalty points. So everyone has access to the items, even F2P players. So if sub/credd equals 10 points then maybe a character slot purchase for a F2P player equals 2 or 3 points or whatever. Idk that makes sense to me but we will see what happens.
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Forgive if this has already been stated. I played beta,I played for 4 months from launch. Since I've come back (I left due to server/guild ghost town prior to megaservers) I have a cumulative 6 months subbed. I will not receive the tier 1 rewards and I shouldn't. Now the way I imagine this plays out, or hope it plays out, is that tier 1 players get the mount and other goodies once F2P hits but the items they get, except the title, will be available via loyalty points. So those who have a lot of time in, but not 100%, will have a crap ton of loyalty points at F2P launch. So say, 1 month sub or credd purchase in your account history gets 10 loyalty points per. So 9 months paid either sub/credd equals 90 points. Considering the Tier 1 = roughly 1 year the mount costs 120 loyalty points. So everyone has access to the items, even F2P players. So if sub/credd equals 10 points then maybe a character slot purchase for a F2P player equals 2 or 3 points or whatever. Idk that makes sense to me but we will see what happens.
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Thing that bugs me is no one knew there would be any reward for staying subsribed else I expect more people would have.  Although I doubt Carbine would have thought they would go f2p a year later.  I quit just before megaservers and let it my sub run out for a quite a few months then activated some credd so I didn't lose my credds. 
 
Since around January/Feb I have been credd activated until August as there was some bug in that it wasn't showing the credd as activated but then after restarting it had activated a load of credd until August.  I deleted my characters as didn't think I would come back (until f2p at least, I always stupidly delete my characters and always end up regretting it) now wondering whether to come back or not, I enjoyed the game it just took up so much time I wonder how I had time for it now. 	
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			Nice to know i was being ostracized by an individual in my absence due to a misunderstanding of my post. To clarify there was only one time i was unsubbed for a few minutes. After being interrupted right as raid started i just left it subbed since. Even though I do not enjoy automatic payments and prefer to pay myself instead of letting a machine do it. It is completely irrelevant why i chose the option i did, the thing being discussed here is whether or not because of the few minute lapse in my subscription in over a year of loyalty to this company and game I will be singled out from receiving this title that will usher into f2p and be a recognition of a player who was dedicated and stuck through the year of the wildstar. I stayed through the bugs, through the exploits, through the arena win trading, through a lot of things, i supported this game. Now there will be a select group of individuals who will receive a "reward" for doing essentially the same thing I did and be recognized for it. I acknowledge my sub was not full uniterrupted but carbine received no less money from me than someone who had. Is that not loyalty ? I didn't play with credd i paid each and every month out of a desire to support the game. I even bought a few credd. I truly hope carbine gives a set response even if it is not the one I would hope for so I don't have to sit here wondering wether or not they did care about my support. I stopped playing this month but continued to support it because i believe in the future i will return. I'd rather not keep supporting it if they didn't appreciate the time and money i did invest into the game. TO me, a company saying I will reward a player who essentially did the same thing but did not have that few minute lapse is ridiculous. Either way i will accept their final word and make my decision duly.	
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Sadly no response from Carbine either way has left me with the same sour taste as past experiences with Carbine. Which led to me giving up on the game.
This should be an exciting time during which Carbine should be trying hard to:
 
1. Convince current p2p players to continue even when f2p hits. 
2. Convince previous p2p players that they have changed/improved and they deserve a second chance.
3. Convince new f2p potential players that the game is better than the negative press it has received and worth a try.
 
Despite what people seem to think, f2p does not automatically mean people will give it a fair shake and a fair try. If the game has bad publicity, users might not even come to try it for free. Or come already biased and unwilling to give it a fair shake.
 
Carbine is failing at each point:
1. They are not comforting existing p2p players with no news about a drop 6 in August (3month marker).  They are not comforting existing p2p players with this entire appreciation rewards nonsense.  They are also not comforting existing players with their silence. 
2. As myself and a few others have stated and maybe some others who sit in silence not wanting to enter forum wars with some people who deem it their job to determine what "entitlement" is... Carbine being stubborn and silent has been one of the things that pushed people away at times. And their attitude here stinks.  Some people are upset because they went away for a small period of time due to being fed-up with Carbine's silence on issues they cared about (dead pvp, dead pvp servers, bugs, performance, bullshit RNG gear). And now they come back to hear they're not appreciated because they lapsed a month.  Some people don't feel they deserve the mount/title but are unimpressed by Carbine's stubbornness and silence... Yet again. One has to recall that silence about certain issues made a lot more people despair and give up on the game than the actual issue.  
3. Bad publicity about a game that already has plenty of hate (deserved or not) is not going to help them bring players in the door.  It ruins all the talk about the great improvements and additions.
 
I just look at myself for a second. I don't want the title or the mount, but there's plenty of people that I think deserve it and won't get it. I also think those people should not have to go spam Support to prove their loyalty for missing out a day or a minute or an hour. I was SUPER excited because of the changes lately with the game:
1. Holowardrobe - what I wanted from beta, holy smokes, finally!
2. Pets - casual fluff and collections and cuteness
3. Contracts - reason to do stuff out of the ordinary - go back to previous zones, go try a different adventure or dungeon, etc.
4. Vet shiphands - for when I want to do something interesting by myself or fluff around with anywhere between 1-4 friends.  Or I can challenge myself and take it all serious and try to get gold (first shiphand gold yesterday, omg)
5. Omincore-1 - have not run it yet but the very existence of something challenging solo sounds fun
6. Drops are now better than crafted gear - finally reason to go challenge myself (I like shinies)
7. More daily zones, some of which are far more interesting (I like Defile quite a lot)
8. Chop shop - on Aurins I can never make up my mind and I am excited to change the look often!
 
Do you know what I'm thinking about instead of these wonderful developments that got me excited when they announced f2p?  I am remembering every single case of Carbine silence and stubbornness, I remember every single case where Carbine messed up something I like/enjoy, I remember every single faux pas that Carbine has done... I remember how frustrated I got with them for being so silent and so stubborn and letting the community tear itself to pieces arguing for and against them.  I remember how many times I read the forums looking for encouragement to come back... and saw stubbornness, silence and arguments.  
 
Who is right and who is wrong matters little in business.  I didn't make a huge post when I left, I had long since given up on Carbine giving a hoot about my concerns... which is a sad state to get yourself in. 
 
Their whole approach to this problem is bad. 
 
I'm not in the mood to go back and forth with people whose opinions and decrees do not mean anything because they do not work for Carbine. But that doesn't mean I'm not disappointed in Carbine... again.  Which makes me sadder than it should.  I was looking forward to a better and more chilled relationship with Carbine.
 
They get from now until the end of the year because I already paid and the content IS fun. But I really am losing hope of making this my main MMO because I really don't want to have a fight every single time with Carbine over their decisions.  Please see my comment in my signature... I fought the customization wars on the forums and Carbine was as deadly silent as now. They did what we asked... months later (chop shop and holowardrobe)... when it was too late and I was already bitter. It's sad that they've made me remember all the bitterness instead of making new happy memories with me.
 
This whole thread is a very sad reminder of dozens of other threads and issues where Carbine *cupcake*ed up and let the community war between themselves over it.	
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There is a stupid amount of silence all of the sudden, and it's not just regarding this topic as well. The hype for F2P is dwindling down because there's been no info what so ever on the beta, what to expect, progress etc. 
This is a very important period with the F2P incoming. 
 
But I'd still like to see some kind of response to this feedback thread. It's run it's course and I see no point having this topic at all if the feedback given is simply not acknowledged. 	
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I can sympathise with a lot you are saying DeaHamlet. I've not been part of many forum wars however as I try to stay away from the general forums. The place is a doozy. Perhaps in part that's why I still have quite some faith in Carbine. I feel there are plenty of people working there who truly care for the game and players. But yea this is quite the mess up, and the silence isn't helping. At first it was understandable since they can't just come out and say they will or won't change things but it's starting to take too long. And you make a good point Razhork, the whole F2P announcement is losing momentum like this. They really shouldn't wait much longer with presenting us with the next batch of info. Flawed PR and exposure is what caused this game a lot of pain and in part led us to F2P to begin with.
 
So I'm with you two. Speak to us Carbine. As far as I'm concerned even if it's a "We are talking in house, can't give details yet" kind of thing which doesn't tell us much, it is still a lot better than this, frankly, deafening silence.	
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There is a stupid amount of silence all of the sudden, and it's not just regarding this topic as well. The hype for F2P is dwindling down because there's been no info what so ever on the beta, what to expect, progress etc. 
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Sadly no response from Carbine either way has left me with the same sour taste as past experiences with Carbine. Which led to me giving up on the game.
Do you know what I'm thinking about instead of these wonderful developments that got me excited when they announced f2p?  I am remembering every single case of Carbine silence and stubbornness, I remember every single case where Carbine messed up something I like/enjoy, I remember every single faux pas that Carbine has done... I remember how frustrated I got with them for being so silent and so stubborn and letting the community tear itself to pieces arguing for and against them.  I remember how many times I read the forums looking for encouragement to come back... and saw stubbornness, silence and arguments.  
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Carbine is really, really bad at PR. I just hope they get that straightened out in time to make the most of the F2P announcement (which I'm guessing only came when it did because the notorious leaker revealed it much sooner than CRB had planned). Moving at the pace of molasses flowing uphill in winter isn't much of a strategy.
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They are taking the parenting approach. Just let the little tikes yell and scream and kick until they wear themselves out and fall asleep. they will feel better after a nap :D
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Thing that bugs me is no one knew there would be any reward for staying subsribed else I expect more people would have.
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Umm, okay.  So even though lots of games have been converting to f2p, left and right, for the better part of a decade or so, each typically with a transitional-reward/bonus, "no one knew" there'd be a transitional-reward/bonus when yet another MMO converted to f2p.  :blink:
 
Think the mass-logic in here, or reasonable facsimile therein, is making my brain hurt.  Must -- go -- lay -- down.  -_-
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I'm pretty sure the part of the player appreciation program that is related to the F2P transition reward/bonus is not the sticking point in this thread. But perhaps a little sleep and less brain pain will help you tease apart through those related, but clearly distinct, issues.
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The point is that uninterrupted subscription time is an absolutely awful metric to use for ANYTHING.
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			I wonder why this thread isn't pinned, since it's an offshoot of the F2P FAQ one.	
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I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but I'm sure a mount similar to the loyalty reward will be available in the cash shop at some point.
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			I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but I'm sure a mount similar to the loyalty reward will be available in the cash shop at some point.	
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The F2P related livestream practically confirmed that a somewhat similar mount, the protostar spiderbot, will be available in the cash shop. I like the protostar spiderbot but even so, the way they've determined their most loyal/appreciated players is broken.
 
Players who paid for a year sub but didn't bother to cancel it, yet later came back for Drop 4 when most of the issues were fixed and population was growing were still eligible for the top tier player appreciation rewards for a week after the F2P announcement regardless of what they thought of the game. Players who have played for months and when population was at its lowest gets blocked from the top tier rewards because they didn't join at launch and/or have been subbed on/off, those players get the same player appreciation rewards as someone who subs today get.
 
I really think they should make the mount/title available somehow to players who were subbed before the F2P announcement. Then the players who are missing out on the top tier rewards due to credit card issues etc. would be covered too. Hopefully this will be brought up along with other F2P related news at E3.	
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I don't really understand the fuss about it. Being a loyal customer implies that you supported the game no matter what for the entirety of its life. I don't see what's broken about it. If you played the game on and off throughout the last year and a half I don't see why you would expect to receive the reward?
 
In the grand scheme of things it's just a cosmetic mount and title that will probably be eclipsed by a large number of cooler mounts/titles in the cash shop shortly after the game goes F2P.	
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I don't really understand the fuss about it. Being a loyal customer implies that you supported the game no matter what for the entirety of its life. I don't see what's broken about it. If you played the game on and off throughout the last year and a half I don't see why you would expect to receive the reward?
 
In the grand scheme of things it's just a cosmetic mount and title that will probably be eclipsed by a large number of cooler mounts/titles in the cash shop shortly after the game goes F2P.
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So someone who paid for a year sub but didn't bother to cancel it, yet later came back for Drop 4 when most of the issues were fixed and population was growing is, regardless of how much they played the game or what they thought of it, a more loyal customer than someone who played the game for months when population was at its lowest among other issues that have now been fixed, because they didn't join at launch and/or subbed on/off? Seems broken to me.
 
Carbine have recieved a lot of feedback regarding the player appreciation rewards between the F2P announcement and E3 so hopefully we'll get their opinion on this soon.	
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And for all we know it could be a slow mount like the beta hoverboards.
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Are the Flux hoverboards slower than other mounts?
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Yes. The new Glitter Kitty and the Snarflynk (sp) are both as fast as the top tier riding lesson. 80 plat??
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I thought that was all getting adjusted?
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			Round and round we go, where we stop, only Carbine knows.  Really starting to think some of this stuff should be looped on a recording, as I swear it makes me think I'm experiencing deja vu every time I read some of it.  :ph34r:	
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Umm, okay.  So even though lots of games have been converting to f2p, left and right, for the better part of a decade or so, each typically with a transitional-reward/bonus, "no one knew" there'd be a transitional-reward/bonus when yet another MMO converted to f2p.  :blink:
 
Think the mass-logic in here, or reasonable facsimile therein, is making my brain hurt.  Must -- go -- lay -- down.  -_-
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I wonder why this thread isn't pinned, since it's an offshoot of the F2P FAQ one.
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			Now a bit more disappointed we haven't heard anything more on this. Probably won't over E3 week either since they will be busy with that.	
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			Ok CARBINE check your logs and name ONE pvp player who didn´t lapse a single month... ok thx. 	
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Now a bit more disappointed we haven't heard anything more on this. Probably won't over E3 week either since they will be busy with that.
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Created on Nov 1, 2013
 
0 lapses in subscription.
 
Not planning to unsub, but not due to mount (wtf do I need a mount for in this game?)	
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Because we really try to keep the pinned threads to a minimum or the whole forum is just one giant pinned thread. It serves no purpose.
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			I'm just happy about the 4 free months of subscription! I mean, who even does that?! Awesomeness!	
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			 To be honest I cant really blame the devs for dropping their transparency policy.. just look at how unfair and rude we as a community treated Tony and his weekly show.. shortly after he pulls the plug. Now we just sit here with nothing but time and concerns on our hands. Granted the show had its flaws and could have been delivered a bit better but it was better than nothing considering that most game studios don't even take the time to show themselves to the community the way carbine had done so in the past. Besides there is nothing to tell us right now...they'll give us the details when their good and ready to give them.	
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			Just fix pvp and client lags / fps drops and i´m happy. 	
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how do you tell if you lapsed at all?
 
I have been a paid up member since the beginning but I'm not sure if I lapsed for a few days.
 
however I haven't played the game since about 2 months after launch. (although I did continue paying to support the game)
 
Just would be kinda bummed if I h ad basically paid for a game to support it, without playing (as really it was so broken it just upset me) and then discovered because of a couple of days lapse in payment, I wasn't considered worthy of the supporter reward in full.	
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how do you tell if you lapsed at all?
 
I have been a paid up member since the beginning but I'm not sure if I lapsed for a few days.
 
however I haven't played the game since about 2 months after launch. (although I did continue paying to support the game)
 
Just would be kinda bummed if I h ad basically paid for a game to support it, without playing (as really it was so broken it just upset me) and then discovered because of a couple of days lapse in payment, I wasn't considered worthy of the supporter reward in full.
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Question, I don't have an active sub, but my paid gametime hasn't lapsed and I've paid for all my gametime via CREDD, will this matter?
 
Customer support had no idea and told me to ask here, nice ehh?
			
				
	Edited June 17, 2015 by Furril	
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Question, I don't have an active sub, but my paid gametime hasn't lapsed and I've paid for all my gametime via CREDD, will this matter?
 
Customer support had no idea and told me to ask here, nice ehh?
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Question, I don't have an active sub, but my paid gametime hasn't lapsed and I've paid for all my gametime via CREDD, will this matter?
 
Customer support had no idea and told me to ask here, nice ehh?
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I lapsed for a few hours today (after the 12 month sub ran out and paypal had some issue) I added CREDD in the meantime until its sorted out.
 
but I was a non sub for 3-5 hours. does this mea isuddenly lose the mount?	
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I lapsed for a few hours today (after the 12 month sub ran out and paypal had some issue) I added CREDD in the meantime until its sorted out.
 
but I was a non sub for 3-5 hours. does this mea isuddenly lose the mount?
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Well, they specifically said we'll hear more about it during E3... that's what the show is about - game industry news! :)
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Still waiting for the news... or did they say something and I just missed it?
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Not just the mount, but everything else in the Player Appreciation Rewards program as well, since your account lapsed after June 15th. Although, a lot of people who have had lapses similar to yours (although before the announcement was made) have the same concerns and have posted the same question, so hopefully Carbine will allow a little leeway on what constitutes "maintaining a subscription".  That being said, it's probably not a good idea to let a sub lapse after an announcement is made that a subscription has to be maintained to be eligible.
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My opinion is slowly developing into one of thinking that these (and other legacy) rewards would be better beneficial to the community if they were done via a "X months of subscribed time" system rather than the way they are doing it.
 
IE:  You get the mount and special title after 18 months of subscribed time, or you get the pre-order and beta stuff after 24, etc.
 
 
I know a lot of people won't like this, but it encourages people to sub even in the FTP environment, which is a good thing AND it prevents development time and money from going to waste since there are things in the system that can be used for profit centers rather than collecting dust in the database.
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While I always appreciate your thoughtful posts, I respectfully disagree. I have stated in other posts that people that got unsubbed due to expired credit cards and such and were only unsubbed a short time, that Carbine would take a look at those issues and fix the issue but they cannot do that until after the F2P transition happens.
 
Why take some peoples rewards away for playing beta? or remaining subbed through the dark times? Why should they NOT be rewarded for their efforts?
 
I trust Carbine to look at these issues but they cannot "fix" something that hasn't happened nor will happen for months to come.
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			You are right. It's not "taking away". It's diminishing someones efforts. They worked for those rewards and someone else did not. They did not play beta, for example, so giving the same rewards to folks that did not play, diminishes their reward.	
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You are right. It's not "taking away". It's diminishing someones efforts. They worked for those rewards and someone else did not. They did not play beta, for example, so giving the same rewards to folks that did not play, diminishes their reward.
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Yes. It was and still is EFFORT.
 
PS I would never do that to my employees. Maybe it's why the person that was hired last was hired over 7 years ago but business is booming and I need to start hiring again :)	
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You should hire me....I make a mean Omurice!
 
Also I'll put this perspective in here for business. Hoensty and keeping to your word as best as you can(S%$# can happen) is a significant part of doing good business and unfortunately those legacy cosmetics as I recall have been said in some cases in writing that they will never be available again. While it is one thing to say "exclusive" it is another thing to say "Exclusive" and also tell people that it will never come back. It's a smack to those who want to try or do trust Carbines statements and would be a rattle that trust. That's just my view though....I'm just a silly ol' squirrel...	
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You should hire me....I make a mean Omurice!
 
Also I'll put this perspective in here for business. Hoensty and keeping to your word as best as you can(S%$# can happen) is a significant part of doing good business and unfortunately those legacy cosmetics as I recall have been said in some cases in writing that they will never be available again. While it is one thing to say "exclusive" it is another thing to say "Exclusive" and also tell people that it will never come back. It's a smack to those who want to try or do trust Carbines statements and would be a rattle that trust. That's just my view though....I'm just a silly ol' squirrel...
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I would hire you. You would love my company! Just bought 5 iPhone 6 plus phones for some people that were on our business plan :D
 
But seriously, you can't please everyone all the time. Just saying iPhone 6 plus will probably bring out people that just can't stand iPhones. In other words someone is always feeling left out. Not everyone gets a ribbon.
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The player appreciation rewards as they are now do not reward players for "remaining subbed through the dark times", they reward having a continuous sub from launch to F2P. Player A who joined at launch but played for 2 weeks yet let his year sub run and came back in Drop 4 is considered a die hard fan, yet Player B who subbed two months after launch (maybe he didn't know about the game, maybe he had to get a better PC etc.) until now get the same stuff as any player who subbed before June 15th. Player C, who ended up unsubbed at times (vacation, work etc.) due to not getting the auto renewing year sub (some people still prefer game time cards) is also left out even if he played during the Wildstar dark ages and for months in total.
 
The way the rewards are tiered at the moment is terrible. I like your suggested solution DuncanEllis but I doubt that will happen as the devs want the top tier rewards to be more or less exclusive, at least that's the impression I got whenever the crawler was mentioned on the road to F2P livestreams.
 
As the player appreciation rewards are now they do not reward player loyalty nor financial contribution (letting players subbed before the F2P announcement purchase a non-refundable sub for their missing time would fix both of these issues nicely...). There have been several suggestions on how to make all of the subbed-since-before-the-game-going-F2P-players like the player appreciation program while still keeping the items exclusive though, so I still think the rewards as they are now might be changed and we'll hear something about a subbed before the F2P announcement tier of some sort soon.	
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ShyDoc, generally I was playing devils advocate.  As a rule I like exclusive rewards, however, I believe in exclusive and reasonably available.  Which is what I'd personally like to see done here.
 
I also see the F2P launch as an opportunity to relaunch similar to what FF14 did, however that would be met with opposition as well.
 
 
There are two or three gaming cultures clashing here, which will make it impossible to make everyone happy in the long run.  This is a really tough spot to be in.	
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			Though I wouldn't mind if all unavailable items became available somehow I'm not against exclusive items, I just think the current requirements for the top tier player appreciation rewards are unreasonable.	
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{| class="blockquote"
My opinion is slowly developing into one of thinking that these (and other legacy) rewards would be better beneficial to the community if they were done via a "X months of subscribed time" system rather than the way they are doing it.
 
IE:  You get the mount and special title after 18 months of subscribed time, or you get the pre-order and beta stuff after 24, etc.
 
 
I know a lot of people won't like this, but it encourages people to sub even in the FTP environment, which is a good thing AND it prevents development time and money from going to waste since there are things in the system that can be used for profit centers rather than collecting dust in the database.
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