Report 1397

Report #1397
Skillset: Paradigmatics Skill: Revelations/TemporaryInsanity
 Org: Illuminati Status: Completed Oct 2016
Furies' Decision:
Solution 1.
Problem: Temporary insanity is cured by lucidity potion on a 1s balance. Its
contemporary timewarp is cured by smoking steam on a 1.5s balance. It is much
easier to cure off temporary insanity compared to its counterpart given the 30%
shorter cure balance, temp-ins being always cured every balance, and the
convenient ability of aeon (another steam aff) to always delay (and therefore
give the chance to further prevent) curing of timewarp. Insanity has stupidity,
which is less reliable in cure delay. Given the recent push for more equal
treatment in reports 1310 and 1542, it is appropriate to help bring more parity
to similar skills.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Increase the balance time for sipping lucidity to
 1.5s while afflicted with temporary insanity. It will
 be removed once temporary insanity is gone.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: In addition to 1, reduce the equilibrium cost of
 paradigmatics revelations to 1.5s (to bring it closer
 to the balance cost for sipping lucidity, currently
 3s).
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: In addition to 1, increase the amount of insanity
 that revelations deals from 1 to 2 (double the
 effect). If 2 is too reliable (because wOo cHaoS), a
 range from 1-3 is also acceptable.
Player Comments:
---[Shuyin on 10/11 @ 03:23 writes]:
I really would prefer the report be taken as a whole. Each part is equally
important. Please note that illuminati currently have no access to massive
bursts of insanity (like shatterplex), so I feel that a better sustained
temporary-insanity output is not only appropriate, but required.
---[Raeri on 10/11 @ 03:47 writes]:
I thought in general Illuminati tends to have better hindering from memory in
comparison, and I believe their timed affliction aff procs at a higher rate too?
I admit that I may not have tracked the overhaul changes to illuminati as
closely as the institute ones, but is illuminati that much weaker than institute
at the moment in terms of affliction/hinder-pressure that it needs the 50%
increased cure cost to tempinsanity?
---[Shuyin on 10/11 @ 04:44 writes]:
Hangedman was reduced in power given the change of all hindering to web, which
also affects the Inveiglora champ ent. Ectoplasm and hekoskeri have been
converted over to the overhaul system which has greatly reduced the balance loss
way down from the previously double. On top of that, neither ectoplasm nor
hekoskeri stack. The fact that balanceloss has been reduced also affects
scrubbing, which means that scrubbing both mucus and ectoplasm off in general
takes less time as well. I would say yes, the reductions warrant the request to
increase the viability of temporary insanity.
---[Wobou on 10/11 @ 05:01 writes]:
I'm generally for what you're trying to do but somewhat wary of the solutions
that you're using to get there. Is there a reason we can't just increase the the
insanity that revelations gives such that it maintains the level of insanity on
the target? That might require tweaking the amount that lucidity slush cures but
if each revelations caused 3 balances worth of lucidity slush that would allow
you to maintain the level of insanity built. That way if you spend power for
madfly, greywhispers, etc and are allowed to spam revelations unhindered then
you can build insanity. If someone can hinder you out of using revelations then
you can't. I can't remember if astrology uses equilibrium or not but solution 3
seems very specifically targeted at tarot which I'm not sure is the tertiary
that needs help of the three you have. On paper even with the nerfs illuminati
have seen to hindering, they should have a very strong ability to get a soulless
or meteor off, hexes on the other hand relies on illuminate which is currently
impossible due to how much and how quickly insanity is cured by lucidity.
---[Shuyin on 10/11 @ 05:33 writes]:
I was under the impression that hexes consumed balance. It's equilibrium, which
makes solution 3 a bit too specific towards tarot. I've replaced it with Wobou's
suggestion that revelations do increased insanity to help sustain insanity as an
alternate solution 2 for now. At the minimum, I would prefer that if I give up
actively murdering/afflicting to spam revelations, I would at least like the
ability to be able to sustain the victim's current insanity levels instead of it
being an ultimately futile attempt. You accomplish this by either decreasing the
balance on revelations or increasing the amount of insanity. I am now
presenting both options for consideration
---[Shedrin on 10/11 @ 06:20 writes]:
I agree with Wobou's comment. I also have a slight concern that spamming
Revelations and only Revelations could become the optimum strategy for
Illuminate, which sounds pretty dull. I'd prefer more varied ways to actively
build insanity, though I'm not sure what forms that would take without rewriting
or making a bunch of skills. That said, Solution 2 or 3 sounds alright, with my
preference being towards 2. Solution 1 could have a lot of consequences outside
of Illuminate, so might be best avoided.
---[Wobou on 10/11 @ 14:08 writes]:
Sadly I'm wondering if even double the effect of revelations would serve to
maintain insanity but we can always take a look after the changes are made to
see, I suspect that right now that a revelations cast does not even perform a
full focused sip of lucdiity's worth of insanity and I think you need 3 times
that (possibly higher) amount to sustain. I agree with Shedrin's concern that
this might make Illuminate somewhat boring but I also think this is an
incremental process. A viable kill is better than an impossible kill, and a fun
kill is better than a viable kill. I don't know if this makes things more fun
but we could push things in a more timing based direction, abilities X Y and Z
cause insanity windows for 1 second that enhance abilities X, Y and W for
example such that if you ignore timing you won't be able to build but if you
time abilities properly you will. I think it would be fun to repurpose figment
in that way myself because I don't think it gets much use currently (but correct
me if I'm wrong).
---[Shuyin on 10/12 @ 02:22 writes]:
Yeah. Tbh I feel that going for either solution 2 or 3 by itself won't really be
enough to really make an effective change, but I understand the preference for
gradual buffs. Though it wouldn't ruin my day if both 2 and 3 were accepted at
the same time. RE: figment - it's basically only good for spamming the ecto
illusion, so your mileage may vary there. That's for another report however.
---[Shedrin on 10/12 @ 15:13 writes]:
I don't really know how these numbers would add up, but I do support buffs to
Revelations. Perhaps more changes can be made to further exploit the Badluck
synergy with insanity. Also, a tangent, I had a vague idea pre-Minstrels
instakill report to add ego synergy to Illuminati, with a secondary ego kill.
That's another possible direction Illuminati can be taken.
---[Raeri on 10/15 @ 13:32 writes]:
I feel both Revelations and Timewarp (the skills in the relevant skillsets which
both solely increase tempinsanity/timewarp) are underused and undertuned - I
support the above buffs to both Revelations as well as its mirrored counterpart.
Preference for a slight random factor such as that mentioned in Sol 3, with a
weighted distribution towards 2x base effect (akin to TK vessels in a way).
---[Lerad on 10/16 @ 02:20 writes]:
Solutions seem reasonable to me. Support solution 2 or 3
---[Shedrin on 10/16 @ 02:22 writes]:
Institute is balanced around Shatterplex, so timechant timewarp doesn't need a
buff. I also may want to take that skill in a different direction (though not
quite sure how yet with the aeon report still pending).
---[Wobou on 10/18 @ 04:34 writes]:
I realized I never commented on your new solutions. I'm somewhat wary of the
balance slowing but otherwise am for solution 3. I personally would like to
leave lucidity timing alone and just buff revelations to give 3 sips worth of
insanity (which translates to 3 seconds of curing it).
---[Shuyin on 10/19 @ 02:27 writes]:
A 1s cure will almost never come close to falling behind when the average
offensive move is about 2.5-3s IMO