Report 192

Report #192
Skillset: Stealth Skill: Infiltrate
 Org: Nekotai Status: Completed May 2009
Furies' Decision:
Solution 1
Problem: Stealth is a skillset designed for being sneaky and being able to get
into places and get information and such. Infiltrate currently is very
uneffective, that it is 1) an aggressive act and you need to declare to use it,
and 2) it only allows you to listen in on Guild, City/Commune and Family
channels, Where secretive information you may be trying to obtain is not usually
talked about.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Make Infiltrate non-aggressive, enabling the use of
 it without declaring, in order to not have masks drop
 when it is used, but give a diag line that states
 "are being infiltrated by <stealth user>
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Solution 1 but allow Infiltrate to listen in on all
 channels, commune/city owned clans included, but not
 private clans, so you can listen in to channels where
 pertinent information may be being discussed
Player Comments:
---[Sidd on 5/3 @ 17:04 writes]:
Really the big thing is, Infiltrate should be able to listen in to Clan Channels
because that's where the majority of important information is discussed. It is
rather easy to prevent, so it isn't an issue of being overpowered, it's an issue
of making it actually useful.
---[Shamarah on 5/13 @ 19:14 writes]:
Yeah, I like this, all real tactical discussions take place on clan channels so
it's pretty useless for actual intelligence-gathering as-is.
---[Zynna on 5/13 @ 23:46 writes]:
I oppose adding the ability to listen to clans. This is a no-power, 0% mastery
skill allowing only two organizations the ability to listen in on aethers.
Extending it to clans not only makes it a buffer stolensight (which is a 75%
expert, 1 p skill), but it also raises privacy concerns about players listening
in on private conversations on non-combat/non-political clans. Even in
city/commune owned clans it would only take one unsuspecting/unskilled player
who was not even with the active group plotting on-aether to be able to listen
in on the entire clan's conversations. Although I oppose listening in to clans
of any kind, should it be considered it should be limited to city/commune-owned
clans only, should have message alerting the person, be able to be dispelled and
have a power cost.
---[Sidd on 5/15 @ 03:24 writes]:
Why I can't argue against privacy issues except to say that if someone is
wanting something to be private, there are tells and other outside messangers
and as far as clans go, everything is ideally IC. The difference between
stolensight and infiltrate is the ability to stop it, currently, you need to
declare, you are REQUIRED to be in the same room, though you can be in different
elevations and if the persons leaves the room, it is stopped. General awareness
will prevent it, where as stolensight, it either wears off after a time, or is
dispelled. I would ok with a diag line, but the search ability in Discernment
(0% novice) will reveal shrouded people, even in the trees. It is simply too
easy to stop to be made to cost power. It is currently useless in that no one
ever talks tactics and such unless they are in a clan. Currently, the IG
factions cities vs communes, both an org with Stealth in it plus both cities
have access to stolensight and such. Infiltrate as it is currently is useless,
but I fail to see how this will make it a buffer stolensight.
---[Sidd on 5/15 @ 03:27 writes]:
To sum my last comment up, Infiltrate is very easily stopped, but needs to be
useful. My suggestions allow it to be so without making it harder to stop.
General awareness will prevent it
---[Zynna on 5/15 @ 15:20 writes]:
Although I appreciate wanting to have more utility for a rarely used skill, I
still think after reading your comments that listening in on clans is too
problematic and should not be allowed. There are overarching privacy concerns.
(1) For non-city/commune-onwed clans, someone has paid 500k to be able to talk
in a group of their choosing I have had someone tell me they would never buy a
clan if players could listen in. While IC clans may be the ideal, OOC clans do
exist. And, there are privacy concerns for even IC clans, such as family ones.
While the reason for wanting to add clans may be for strategic, combat reasons,
the potential for abuse and harassment is too high in my opinion. (2) Even for
city/commune-owned clans, this would be problematic as I believe it would lead
to more secrecy by leaders, restricting more who is in the clans , and stifle
communication in general rather than encourage it. Also, although there is
currently a Seren/Glom and Celest/Mag pairing this won't always be the case.
And, in spite of the alliance there is an imbalance for Seren/Celest with their
respective partners if, for example, Glom/Mag can listen in to the Moonhart
Circle/Star Concil to learn whether Seren/Celest plans to keep the alliance,
while Glom/Mag could freely plot to break it without worry
---[Sidd on 5/15 @ 15:42 writes]:
I have updated both solutions one and two, I would be ok with listening in on
only commune/city clans and giving a diag line to help alert people
---[Zynna on 5/15 @ 15:49 writes]:
I support Solution 1, as I believe it would increase the utility of the skill
while providing a way for those infiltrated to learn of it.
---[Gregori on 5/19 @ 18:16 writes]:
Solution 1 is fine
---[Nienla on 5/20 @ 23:26 writes]:
Solution 1 is good
---[Sarrasri on 5/21 @ 16:59 writes]:
I'm fine with solution 1.
---[Viynain on 5/22 @ 17:06 writes]:
Solution 1.
---[Nejii on 5/25 @ 03:08 writes]:
I am glad the suggestion to listen to private clans was removed and have no
issues with other buffs (one problem: if it's nonaggressive, what are you
supposed to do if you catch someone do it? it could probably just stand to not
go through masks). There is a flaw with suggestion 2 though - this will just
make people want to make their city/commune clans privately owned and or OOC
(see Jhagar).
---[Sidd on 5/26 @ 06:13 writes]:
Well, if you discover that people are listening, it's easy to stop, you just
move and shield, and you can't be followed and re-infiltrated. If it bothers
someone that much, they can declare and attack, but with it being so easy to
stop, I don't think making it aggressive is worth it, I understand your
sentiments about making city/commune clans privately owned, but there really is
no feasible way around that.