Source Land Religions

This article is dedicated to religion within the Source Lands Setting. 
== Elder Religion ==
The Elder Races had a complicated religious system that modern historians and archaeologists only believe that they have partially figured out. Some historians are leaning towards the popular theory that the Elders weren't religious at all, and that their so called religion was part of a much more complicated relationship with the universe that hasn't been figured out yet. 
* The Eldar Manuscripts are kept in the Holy Sepulcher in Estheim - they are a collection of Eldar Texts. Copies of them were scattered across the Westerlands and have ended up in Universities across the continent. 
* The Eldar Manuscripts speak of Planets as if they have a "will" and as if they act autonomously. It has been suggested by some critics of the current established theories, that the manuscripts refer to inhabitants on these planets, and that the assumption made that the planets themselves were acting is rooted in a time when humans did not fully understand that they too lived on a planet. 
* The first notion of the power of the sun comes from the Eldar Texts talking about how planets (assuming these to be entities) always fall into a natural order around a Sun. 
=== Variants ===
There are several variants and sub-sects of the Elder Religion.
===== The Orthodox Elven Faith =====
The Elven Faith comes in two variants - the Orthodox Elven Faith was what the Imperial Faith was eventually based upon, but was actually a strange mix between pseudo science and religion. 
===== The Neo-Elven Faith =====
When Elves eventually were enslaved by humans, they clung to some of their old traditions, but were largely denied these - as a result, the Neo-Elven faith is largely an oral tradition with traditions that reflect the impoverished lifestyle that the enslaved elves lived under. Many of these traditions root in Orthodox Traditions, but others are new and came around later - some are just parodies of human traditions that the elves adopted a counter-part to. 
===== The Nordmarian faith =====
The Nordmarian people are descendants of human slaves that escaped long before the human uprisings. They took some of their beliefs with them, but were rather primitive when they initially escaped. Their religion evolved rather naturally - they seem to have kept Gods largely identical with the primary deities of the Orthodox Elven Faith, but do not believe these Gods to be planets - nor in any way associated with the Celestial Bodies; rather the Nordmarians see them as "people". Unlike the Imperial Faith, the Church of Nordmar is perfectly unified. 
===== Old Talanthian Faith =====
The first people to settle in Talanthia were Nordmarians - and the Nordmarian Faith clearly was a huge influence on Old Talanthia Faith - however, the Talanthians believe in multiple pantheons of Gods. Most of the Nordmarian Gods exist in the faith, under different names and some of them with massive alterations, as does a force known only as "The Holy Light", which is a life-giving entity - but these Gods are referred to as the "Ancients" or the "Elders" - depending on the region, and they are seen as distant Gods that are not all easy to understand - rather, the Talanthians primarily worship a different set of Gods, known typically just as "Gods" - who are largely similar to the "Old Gods". 
===== Imperial faith =====
Known also as Orthodox Helionism, the Imperial Faith is a complicated entity - immediately after the Human Uprising, cults started appearing everywhere, dedicated to the Gods of the Orthodox Elven Faith - often in the same temples where the Elven Overlords once prayed. This caused strife, religious war and conflict until eventually, for reasons somewhat unknown, the humans of the Westerlands seemed to just decide that the religions should co-exist, and practically adopted the Orthodox Elven Faith for some time, virtually just copying the rituals and adapting what they couldn't figure out to recreate. 
* The Imperial Faith has no administrative unity, but the church of Helios did not exist under the Imperial Faith - this despite all records indicating that there were Helionite Temples, and that these were places of awesome power. The first caretakers of the Helionite Temples were actually Elven Slaves - they were kept as they were initiated into the Esoteric Cult of Helios and understood the workings of the mysterious temples. 
* Helios was viewed more as a "Force" and a "Will" than as a God. He was more than just a God, but was not concerned with the affairs of men and could not be approached or appeased - though there was a prophecy that spoke of a secret power, automatically just assumed to be associated with Helios, that would be found some day and manifest itself in the Chosen. Initially, some believed that "the chosen" were supposed to be a people, but it later came to be understood as a single person - the elves had a different take, they believed that the prophecy spoke of the planet they lived on, and that the power was magic, and the chosen people were themselves. 
* There was an understanding among the various Imperial Cults that they were a single people, uplifted, blessed and free. This singular identity as "Westerlanders" was important to them and laid the groundwork in forming the Empire, that this collection of Cults would since become the official religion of. 
* During the forming days of the Empire, many people did not know all of the Gods, and there were many more gods (now gone, or their cults having gone into hiding). There were also many "false idols". 
===== Conservative Helionism =====
The Helionite Faith sought to unite the Imperial Faith as a single unified church that worshiped all the recognized gods in a single faith, under the same temple roof. This movement began in the Carnala Empire (now the Carnala Republics), and came about at a time when most of the Cult of Helios had been wiped out in a very obscure religious war against the followers of "the dark one". When the Carnala Empire had formed, they sent their armies to defeat the last bastion of the Elves, in what would later be known as Estheim. Their Imperator (supreme military commander), Cassius Mithlander, conquered Estheim and made it his own Kingdom, where he established Helionism as a State Religion, and it then gained more momentum in the Carnala Empire as well, and even spread among other nations. 
The Conservative Helionites do not believe that the Mithlander Family was chosen by Helios, nor that Septimus was exalted by Helios or in any way a Messiah figure. Conservative Helionism, since the rise of traditional Helionism, has been a fringe religion that had a revival in the Mark Lands and Rivera in the Colonial Era. 
===== Imperial Helionism =====
The Helionite Faith changed dramatically after Septimus, the Exalted God-Emperor of the Sun, conquered all of the Westerlands and even territories on other continents in his perpetual war to root out the followers of the "Dark One". This faith all but replaced the Conservative Helionism - though Conservative Helionism later made a massive comeback. 
* The Imperial Helionites declared that Septimus was the "Chosen One" who would wield the power of Helios and rallied behind him as a figurehead. 
* The Helionite Faith had two main sites of worship - The Holy Sepulcher in Estheim and the Grand Cathedral of Helios in the Carnala Republics. 
* The Imperial Helionites claim the Nordmarian Faith and Imperial Faith as being branches of their own faith - authorized sects. This is not necessarily something that is appreciated by members of those religions, but it has prevented war. 
===== Cosmonism =====
The Cosmonite Faith was a religion that started in Novera and was also particularly popular in Orlais, and initially also in Rivera. The faith denounced that the sun was anything more than a symbol of the "Great Will" (the Cosmos), and should not be worshipped. It struck down the Helionite Saints as being heretical figures and denounced Septimus' status as a Messiah, and rather declared him Malefecar (a Witch) - and considered him to be the father of all Witches.
* While Septimus was loved by those nations that were inclined to surrender and join him, he was loathed in the nations that he conquered by the sword - known as "Septimus the Slaughterer and Enslaver of the Free" - He remains the "devil" of Cosmonite religion, but it is believed that he was put in the world by the Cosmos to test mankind, and to punish them for their arrogance, and as such, devotion to him as a godly figure is not heretical but highly disturbing to Cosmonites. 
===== Church of the Holy Light =====
The Church of the Holy Light is a religion that comes from Estrel (the continent often referred to as "the Orient"). It appears to be an early schism from the Helionite Cult that rallied behind their own beliefs. They also revere Septimus (though they call him "Saiful-Baari"), but believe him to have been just one of the agents of the Holy Light, and that there will be more like him, and that the prophecy referred to humans as a whole. They view Helios as "gateway" through which the Holy Light shines, and also fear the "Dark One". 
* The Church of the Holy Light is not at all very unified, in fact there are many sub-sects within it, that all worship differently. 
=== The Major Gods ===
These are the three primary Gods of the Imperial Faith, the Elven Faith, the Norse Faith and even the Elder Religion. 
===== Helios =====
The Sun God Helios is represented by a lions face with a circular mane that is a shining sun. He represents the life giving force of the universe, order, power, warmth, light and judgment as well as justice. 
===== Luna =====
Luna, the trickster moon, represents chaos, the ocean and deceit. The many faced god is patron of many, and has many facets. 
===== Gaia =====
Representing life itself, Gaia is the world that everyone lives on (Terra). Supposedly, she is cruel because she has her own sense of justice, born out of the fact that the sun's light only illuminates part of Gaia at any given time, while the Trickster Moon Luna is influencing the side left in Darkness. 
=== The Lesser Gods ===
There are numerous other celestial bodies that are of minor importance in the religion. 
===== Mors the Seeker =====
The North Star, a guiding light in the distance, associated with Death. The Seeker seeks out those who are ready to leave this world and guides their souls to his world using his guiding light, and ferries them over with the Northern Lights. Mors is represented with a distant star and a phenomenon that appears on Terra - fitting, because he is believed to not truly be a "God" but something both greater and lesser than a God. 
===== Sanguine =====
The god of war, Sanguine honors the fallen and the victor evenly. Represented by the closest planet to Terra, being a red world. 
===== Obrimos =====
God of wisdom and knowledge. Obrimos is represented by a distant celestial body, known to exist only in theory, based on observations and calculations. Somewhat fitting. 
===== Deveros =====
God of crafting and diligence. Represented by a very distant celestial body, visible barely without a telescope. 
===== Astralis =====
God of navigation, maps and exploration. Astralis is represented by the stars in general. 
===== Constelliar =====
God of fate, represented by constellations. Said to occasionally send comets as omens. 
===== Cronos =====
Cronos is the God of time, represented by a remote star that, on the eve of New Year, originally always lined up perfectly with the summit of a mountain in the Westerlands. The passing of time can, through advanced mathematics, be determined to an exact from how far the star now appears off-center from the mountain summit. Cronos was supposedly not originally a god, but was raised to god-hood by Constelliar. 
===== Gond =====
Gond is the Chronicler of all history, represented by a blinking star, that scientists have named "the artificial star", claiming that it appears as if Gond literally travels around Terra in his mysterious man-made vessel, observing everything. Gond was also uplifted by Constelliar. 
===== Arcanis =====
God of magic, Arcanis is not represented by a celestial body, but historically appears to have been a God that the Elders didn't discover until they arrived on Terra. 
===== Sune =====
God of Passion, Sune is represented by a Star believed to be close by, that has a tendency to change color. While Gaia gives life, and Obrimos grants intellect, it is Sune he completes what it means to be human. 
===== Hedonos =====
The God of lack of restraint and self-indulgence. 
=== The Clergy ===
Using the Imperial Faith as a standard, other Institutions of the Elder Faith are more or less deviations from the organized Imperial Church. 
===== Initiate =====
An initiate of the church is a person who has undergone the Right of Joining. The Right of Joining cannot be undertaken until a child reaches the age of 15, or (in the case of an unknown age), until they obtain permission from both the local church authority, the local administrator and their parents (if any), and two independent witnesses must both declare that they assume this person to be "of age". 
* The right involves feasting from sunset and until dawn, while performing a number of rituals, and it can only be performed during a certain season where the various planets are visible, unless the Priest makes an exception. The Ritual is considerably different for the Elven and Nordmarian variations, and dramatically simplified for the Church of Cosmos and Holy Light, but similar. 
* Being initiated assumes membership in the church of choice, which is considered permanent, though conversion is possibly, it is considered a deadly sin by all churches and is a guaranteed way to be excommunicated, unless one is of high standing. 
* Initiates are recorded into the church records, and so are children of former initiates. The records kept are done in a fashion where the first person of a family line (uninterrupted) to be initiated will be recorded down with what ever information can be proven by means of witnesses (place of birth, who father and mother were, etc.), creating a letter of initiation. This letter is recorded, and used as a reference for a blood-line conversion, which is complicated, but considered a good thing. If any witnesses testify information that ties the given person to a previously converted bloodline, then the letter is terminated, and the person is instead recorded normally. 
* Every bloodline is assigned a number that is unique - each district and sub district has certain codes that are used to identify them, and then the individual bloodline is assigned a number that follows the code. 
* The children of the an initiated (convert or not) upon birth, are recorded in the church birth records, and assigned a number, that adds to the Bloodline identification number in a certain fashion, and recorded in reference to the original convert who created the bloodline entry. 
* The Birth Record is references again in the initiation record, which has the exact same code, but with a different ending letter (B for birth record, or I for initiation and may other such that all reference the same person). The birth record does record some initial data about the child, but it is somewhat sparse, but the initiation record includes a full description of the individual, complete with dominant hand, dominant eye and many other very intimate details, such as birth-marks and scars. 
* If a person is Gentry or Nobility, this is a totally separate set of records, kept by the local Earl, but it is referenced in the records, often with a direct reference number to what ever records the aristocracy uses (but this is often a much bigger challenge to investigate, as the aristocracy much more frequently alters their means of recording, or sees recordings accidentally lost or destroyed). 
* Because records are periodically backed up, so it is rare for people to completely lose their records, but there are regions where recording doesn't occur frequently or at all, because of a lack of church presence or resources. 
===== Laymember =====
Becoming a Laymember (often called a "layman") is a simple matter of completing a course of religious studies, which translates to basic schooling, or the closest equivalent for most of society in the setting. 
* One cannot become a layman before becoming an initiate, though it is not necessary to become a laymember at all, but in most regions where there is a local church which teaches Sunday School, almost everyone becomes a laymember immediately after the ceremony that passes the next generation into the ranks of the initiated, and a massive celebration follows. 
* Laymembers are guaranteed to be knowledgeable of their faith and the abridged history of their people and culture that comes with that territory, which also means they are extremely likely to be literate and capable of rudimentary arithmetic. 
===== Acolyte =====
An Acolyte is rarely initiated into the church, because they are not yet of age, though some Acolytes remain Acolytes after their initiation. Despite the fact that most Acolytes are not initiated, they are regarded as higher-ranking church-members than mere initiates. 
* Acolytes, for the most part, live ordinary lives, but work for the church. It is an actual job, and while it is sometimes unpaid, many poor families are allowed to volunteer their children, who are then fed and clothed by the local church, but in return, the child works every day for the church. It is extremely common for children of the Gentry and Nobility to volunteer a few hours of their week to the church, often in the form of singing in a choir, or participating in certain ceremonies. It is almost unheard of for a Court-Paige not to also be an Acolyte. 
* Acolytes traditionally tend the many alters found in Imperial Churches, cleaning them, clearing off donations, polishing decorations, etc. 
* 
===== Novice =====
Novices function more or less exactly like Monks and/or Nuns, but have not undertaken vows yet, and can choose to leave the service of the church, though their lifestyles and duties are (for the most part) indifferent from those of a Sworn- Monk or Nun. 
* Many members of nobility and gentry choose to serve a full year (or more) as Novices, as it is an excellent way to catch up on studies prior to enrolling in a university (or in situations where that is not an option, then obtaining proper education in the first place), after serving as Squires for some time. 
* Almost all orphans (at least the ones that do not end up living with relatives or on the streets) end up as Novices. Ironically, the life of a Novice is often much preferable to that found in the household of an impoverished family, but the initial implications scare children and many choose the streets, or seek foster care. 
* While higher in the hierarchy than the initiated, many Novices are uninitiated, because they are not of age. 
===== Chanter =====
A Chanter is often the adult title of an Acolyte, but not always. Chanters employed by local churches to lead certain ceremonies and train Acolytes in their duties. It is often a part-time job, and usually paid in the form of food and board. 
* Chanters are often former Acolytes, meaning they typically were from poor families that could not afford to properly feed and clothe a child. As such, they often do not stand to inherit anything, and are unlikely to attract a spouse in their early years. 
* Being raised as an Acolyte often is enough to be considered a prospect for apprenticeships, because they often tend to have better education and work-ethic than most children, so only a few Acolytes tend to be retained and become Chanters. 
* Chanters, when appointed, are actually anointed and are technically fully capable priests and are eligible for promotions further up the hierarchy. It isn't uncommon to find a Chanter leading all ceremonies in the absence of a higher ranking Priest. 
===== Sworn Brother/Sister =====
Those who swear their Monastic Oaths are not necessarily bound by them forever. Without a university degree in Theology, or appointment by a high-ranking church official for extraordinary recognition, joining the Monastic Orders is the only way to climbing further up the church hierarchy. 
* Swearing Monastic Oaths doesn't require an individual to be a Novice First, but does require an individual to be initiated. 
* The only difference between a Sworn Brother/Sister and a Novice, is that the Sworn Brother/Sister cannot choose to legally leave the services of the church, at least not without converting to a different faith or using one of very few options to leave. Becoming a Templar, a Missionary or similar are some of the options. Alternatively, advancing in the hierarchy is the only option out. 
* Sworn Brothers/Sisters are always anointed Chanters (the reverse is not necessarily true), which a Novice can also be, but it is less likely to be the case, but it does occur in cases where a Novice was previously anointed, before becoming a Novice. 
===== Missionary =====
Missionaries join a Mission (lead by a Missionary Priest of some rank or another) to settle and spread religion to certain regions. Missionaries are effectively settler-serfs of the Church. 
* Missionaries are absolved of any vows, but undertake new responsibilities that they cannot easily escape - however, when new missions open up, there are often many volunteers among young nuns and monks who seek to escape the life of the monastery, and typically those under the age of 20 are permitted to go, provided there is room on the mission. 
* Monks and Nuns who flock to missions are often paired up into households in arranged marriages, but typically also asked to adopt and raise orphans from the local population. 
* It is often the best chance at a perfectly ordinary life that a sworn brother/sister can hope for. 
===== Templar =====
Templars, be they Knight-Templar or not, are Holy Warriors who sign a contract to be soldiers of their faith for a certain amount of time (typically 20 years). 
* Anyone who is healthy, can still realistically muster 20 years (or close) of service can become a Templar, but it is somewhat more complicated becoming a Knight-Templar. 
* There are many templar orders, but they are often referred to collectively as "templars". A Sworn Brother can become a Templar, and be absolved of their vows, but it is extremely rare for anyone to choose this. 
===== Cleric =====
There are three types of Clerics; Missionary Clerics, War-Clerics and Administrative-Clerics. Clerics are junior-priests, higher ranking than a Chanter, but lower than a Chaplain. 
* Cleric is the lowest rank that a Sworn Brother/Sister can advance to, which doesn't involve signing a 20 year military contract or becoming a missionary (which is usually only possible if one has obtained special skills and a mission comes along while one is still young). 
* Templars can become Clerics, and Clerics can become Templars if they so wish, thus becoming War-Clerics, being removed from the military hierarchy, but also from the traditional church-hierarchy, starting down a path beholden to the Templar Order they have joined. 
* Administrative Clerics are assistant-priests in Chapels, Churches and Cathedrals, almost always groomed to take over and become the next primary priest. 
* Missionary Clerics are rarely allowed to lead their own missions, so in most ways, they do not differ from Administrative Clerics at all, but it does occasionally happen that they lead Missions of their own. 
===== Chaplain =====
Chaplain is the lowest form of proper anointed priest in the Imperial Faith. Chaplains are not dedicated to any specific God, and Chapels (unlike Temples) are universally dedicated to all gods of the Imperial Faith. Typically, a city in which a Temple is found, where a Templus preaches, a Chapel is also found. 
As with a Cleric, a war, administrative and missionary version of the title exists. 
While a Templus is actually higher-ranking than a Chaplain, they are only regarded as Higher Ranking within their own sub-sect, and are in fact considered of the same rank as a Cleric by the Imperial Faith as a whole, and by members of other sub-sects. 
===== Templus =====
A Templus is a Priest who is dedicated to a specific sub-sect of the Imperial Faith, who orchestrates worship in a Temple. They are far less common in the later eras, but a few prevail beyond the fall of the Empire itself. 
* While a Templus is actually higher-ranking than a Chaplain, they are only regarded as Higher Ranking within their own sub-sect, and are in fact considered of the same rank as a Cleric by the Imperial Faith as a whole, and by members of other sub-sects. 
* A Templus never really carries the title "Templus", except on formal documents of the Imperial Faith - depending on their actual sub-sect, their actual title changes. 
* While a templus is the sub-sect equivalent of a Chaplain, the sub-sects also have their own names for lower-ranking members, but only a Templus is regarded as lower-ranking than its universal equivalent, a sub-sect Cleric is regarded as a cleric, and so forth. While a Templus technically has no higher rank than a Universal Cleric, they are still above Clerics of their own sub-sect. 
===== Abbot/Abbess =====
Again, mainly an administrative title, an Abbot or Abbess is often dedicated to sub-sect or a specific monastic order, which often has its own rules and traditions, though this is for instance not the case with the Monastic Helionite Order, which is regarded as the primary Imperial Order. 
* An Abbot (or Abbess) often rules over a piece of land that could technically rival a Shire or even a whole Barony in size, which makes them much more powerful in practice, even if their title naturally isolates them. 
* While not always the case, an Abbot/Abess typically reigns from a monastery, but there is no further hierarchy of the Monastic Orders, as it was decreed that Abbots would be subservient to the local Solar. 
===== Solar =====
A Solar is a district administrator for the various members of the Clergy within a County. Every County features a Cathedral, or a Solar-Chapel (which is the word used to describe a chapel that does not qualify as a Cathedral yet, but functions as such in the absence of a proper one). 
A cathedral is typically dedicated to a local Saint or a Relic. There are a few other options for a Chapel to be "promoted" to Cathedral, but they are somewhat rarer. 
Solars rule over any Templus beneath them, despite being distinctively a Helionite Title, and they also rule over any Universalists beneath them. 
===== Arch Solar =====
An Arch Solar rules over all other Solars within a Duchy. In the case of an Arch-Duchy, there will be a Grand Solar in place of an Arch Solar. 
Arch Solars have varying degrees of political power, depending on how many solars they have under them (if any). An Arch Solar who has no other Solars under him, will traditionally still be appointed Arch Solar, but will be forced to relinquish his authority as such immediately after appointment, and will be a part of the nearest other Arch-Solar's domain. 
===== Grand Solar =====
A Grand Solar sits on the Solar Council, under the Divine Father/Mother, and once the Divine dies (or is removed or even abdicates, in rare cases), one of the Grand Solars are commonly appointed as the new Divine Father/Mother
== Holy Orders ==
There is a large number of Holy Orders, especially in the Imperial Faith. In fact, the Imperial Faith virtually has a separate self-run institution for each place of worship (as opposed to the Helionite Church, which is unified). 
=== Crusaders ===
The Symbol of the Cross unifies the Crusaders. Before the Helionite Church rose to power, in an effort to unify the various and sporadic institutions of the Imperial Faith, and before the Church of Costmos had even formed - there was a schism between the Imperial Faith and the Church of the Holy Light. Detrimental to both movements, their designated "Holy Lands" were virtually on top of each other, found in Northern Rahamra - and would be the subject of continued fighting for decades. This largely served as a the catalyst to unify the Imperial Church into the Helionite Order, when Holy Warriors from the various orders met at the Cross-Roads to protect the pilgrims, regardless of which Imperial Faith they initially pledged their prayers to - and as such, the Crusader movement took the symbol of the Cross as their universal symbol. 
===== Imperial Faith Crusaders =====
Black background, white cross or reverse. Also uses several other models. 
===== Helionite Crusaders =====
Red Cross, Black Background
===== Cosmonite Crusaders =====
White background, Red Cross
== The Old Gods ==
Known as the Old Gods, this is not an organized religion at all. The Religion of the Old Gods seems to have existed among the primitive proto-humans who lived on Terra before the Elder-Races came, and it later was continued among many Barbarian Cultures and Nations and is still very prevalent. 
=== Variants ===
There once existed Organized versions of the Old Gods Faith, and some still do exist in remote and exotic locations, but for the most part, one group of people worshiping deities from within this religion, will not necessarily have anything in common with another given group doing so. 
===== Names and Faces =====
The biggest variations in the Old Gods Faith, is mainly the variations of the names of the gods, their exact depictions and the stories associated with the Gods. 
=== Gods ===
No Gods in the Old Gods Faith are bigger or smaller in the same sense as with the Elder Faith, but some Gods have more popularity than others. Some are entirely forgotten. 
===== In General =====
Those who study the Source for the most part agree on two things: 
# The Old Gods are, for the most part, all real. 
# They aren't Gods. 
The Old Gods are believed to be beings from a series of separate planes of existence, tied to the Material World. Some are considered "Spirits", others are considered "Demons" and a rare few are called "Archons". They are loosely divided into the categories based on their levels of benevolence. Naturally, those worshiping the Old Gods would take offense to that. 
* Ultimately, the Old Gods are a very direct source of power, if one can figure out how to get their attention and please them. Rituals so ancient that they are half-way forgotten and totally forbidden for the most part, are necessary to gain the attention of the Gods, unless they take notice on their own. 
* While Genesis and holy scripture has erupted around some sects and cults devoted specifically to one of the Old Gods, or another, most realize that the Old Gods are not really Gods but just extremely powerful beings, as much subjects of the real gods as humans are.
* It isn't completely uncommon for peasants to make secret sacrifices or rituals in the name of some of the Old Gods in truly desperate times, or for mystics to employ the help of these creatures. Even in civilized lands, large cults devoted to the Old Gods exist, some openly, some not so.