145492-increase-leaver-penalty-for-dungeons-etc

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Could a queban increase be implemented to stop tanks and healers leaving dungeons they dont feel like doing at that point in time? as it is now they just vote for disband and if that fails they just leave anyway since the 15 minute queban is like nothing to them as they find a new group superfast anyway after that. 
 
Im thinking like at least a couple hours of queban for EVERYTHING.
And also make it so you can only disband after a certain amount of totalt wipes on bosses to at least try and avoid griefing assholes, it shouldnt be that hard to sort out i would imagine. And would hopefully make people actually you know, play the game...
 
Sort of a rant i know, but this is getting stupid and something needs to be done...
 
Thanks for your time.	
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It wouldn't help. 15 min is enough of a penalty to make people think twice. If they'll take a 15 minute, they'll take a two hour. Or they'll just sit there and demand to be kicked.
 
If a person is unhappy enough to want leave and take the 15 minutes, do you really want to play with them anyway?	
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			I realize it is frustrating when people leave instances. However, this isn't a solution, to some people it just isn't worth it to be in a group that isn't enjoyable regardless. A couple hour ban from everything is ridiculous lol yes let's invite people to not play the game at all because they left an instance that could have been just not going to work and the group wouldn't vote disband. Sometimes groups just don't work and that is okay.	
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Im thinking like at least a couple hours of queban for EVERYTHING.
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For myself, 15 minutes is enough of a penalty. I don't drop groups, and it annoys me when people do, but I understand that it happens sometimes for legitimate reasons. Asking for a few hours though is completely absurd and way too harsh.
 
I got ticked at a new guildie last night who, when we were looking for more people for a full guild group for Vet Dungeon runs, dropped out of a pug he'd been teaching for two hours (but didn't tell us about until after the fact when he had 14 minutes on deserter debuff). We were all set to queue, and suddenly he goes "Oh, that's me. I ditched them for you guys." Dick move, guy. I can understand preferring guildmates and friends over pugs (a reason I myself almost never queue unless 3/5ths of the team are what I know for a fact are semi-reliable) but if you're already in one and it is progressing and you're basically the teacher, this is not an ok thing to do. Was his SSM run taking a long time? Yes. Was it working? Yes. He was going through the effort to teach new players and then decided "Cupcake it" and left. We did not bring him along. Did he complain about being stranded and not able to queue for several minutes? Yes...and imo, he deserved it. That said, I still wouldn't wish even a 30 minute long debuff on him. That's just too much.
 
It would be nice if you had to wait about 3-5 minutes into a dungeon before you could disband, that way people at least gave it an attempt, but I think that in the end that would annoy more people than it would help anything. Also, what was said above. Some people adamantly just won't do certain dungeons and will dick around and wait to be kicked and just waste a party slot, your time, and your patience.	
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I don't think increasing the ban timer is the way to go. If people are going to leave then that's upto them if there is going to be a 2 hour timer then all that's going to happen is the ones who want to leave wont do another thing in the dungeon until the vote to disband is accepted.
 
Then you get the occasions where what happens if people dc during a dungeon? Is it fair they then get punished with a 2 hour ban just because they have a flaky connection, some people can only play for 2 hours so in that instance there evening is pretty much destroyed due to no fault of there own.  If you increase the severity of the ban you need to take everything into context and if you provide a method for those that dc to not be punished what is to stop the ones wanting to leave just disconnecting there network.  
 
In short if people want to leave they will always find a way around it no matter how severe the punishment is.	
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Instead of making it more severe, just make it more humorous! Those who drop get a temp title under their name plate like "The Deserter" or "AWOL AHOLE" for those 15 minutes. And with this debuff, all vendors ignore you. mwahahaha. 
 
Also you get a kick me sign attached to the back of your chest gear.	
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			Leave 15min ban as it is, but track it, if person after that quits from another party inside 1 hour, make it 30 min ban, and after it expires if he quits another party inside 1 hour after that, make it 3 hours ban, after that those 3 hours can repat each time that person does it again, until he stop doing it and is 1 hour not quitting from anywhere (1 hour trial starts ticking only after each ban expires).
			
				
	Edited October 27, 2015 by Gothix	
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			Based on what I saw in other games, increasing penalty wont work -- on the contrary, it will create new, even worse, situation having players standing at start and demanding kick to avoid it (saw it enough in FFXIV).	
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The solution is already implemented. All classes have an option to play as either tank or heals. As the OP said, the reason they don't care about 15 minute wait is that they will get a group when they que for one. Que as a tank or heals. There will be plenty of DPS. Profit.
 
And, it serves the double purpose of allowing everyone to understand what others go through.	
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			So what happens if I get DC'd and leave the dungeon? Don;t we already get a penalty for that happening? I sure as hell would be pissed if the server decided to boot me and I got a two hour queue ban.	
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			I've always felt that a stacking penalty for leaving a dungeon, or other group content, is the best deterrent.  The stack would decrease over time, or if you successfully complete runs.  This would allow for the occasional disconnect or emergency for people who have legitimate reasons for leaving, but harshly penalize people who make a habit out of quitting.EDIT:  For people sitting AFK and holding a run hostage until they get a votekick, then maybe something like a vote-kick carrying a lesser stacking penalty in a similar manner. Perhaps with a grace period of 2 or 3 votekicks?  Again, for the random vote-kick that happens to everyone, this wouldn't be an issue.  But for people who make a habit out of getting vote-kicked repeatedly, it would add up.     
			
				
	Edited October 27, 2015 by Elite Seraph	
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			You really don't want to put this much effort into forcing people who don't want to play with you. They may have crummy reasons, but at the end of the day, it's just not going to be pleasant to try too hard to keep them around.
			
				
	Edited October 29, 2015 by SlyJeff	
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The problem is what has been mentioned before.We could easily say, “Hey, lets add another vote system where someone can vote to be dismissed.” Then we would have 'Vote to Kick', 'Vote to Disband', and 'Vote to Dismiss'. (Which would be confused with Disband. Purposefully or not.) Now the 'Vote to Dismiss' is a self option. And it asks the party if they will dismiss X player from the instance. If the vote fails, the user may get to by-pass the deserter debuff. (This would prevent them from holding runs hostage for a 'Vote to Disband', but would also be abused to all *cupcake* by everyone.)We could also say, “Hey, why not add a decrease in gold/items from the next instance they complete if they ditch (either by dismiss when there is a full party, or they simply leave) the instance. But this would punish someone who disconnected or had their two year old push a glowing button. This would cause an outrage by 'innocent' disconnects and instance jumpers pretending to be 'innocent' disconnects.What about tracking instance ditches and implementing a loss of rewards after X amount of debuffs gained in a twenty-four hour period? This would lead to people hijacking instance runs waiting for a 'Vote to Dismiss'. 
Then we need to figure out how to deal with the abuse of, 'Vote to Dismiss' which is generally 'Vote to Kick'. But the easier solution is for those who are bothered by it to go tank/healer and be the one who does not simply ditch a group without a reason. (Such as the aforementioned two year old who is overjoyed because the computer reacted when he pushed that glowing button.)	
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Just have a silent/hidden leaver statistic tracked. People who have high leaver stats only get grouped up with other people who have high leaver stats :P
 
 
I read that a game or two was trying that out.  Doubt we'll see that in WS but it would be funny if it made it in game hehe.	
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			There is actually a very easy solution to this but it will make everyone on these forums seethe with rage	
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There is actually a very easy solution to this but it will make everyone on these forums seethe with rage
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{| class="blockquote"
There is actually a very easy solution to this but it will make everyone on these forums seethe with rage
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{| class="blockquote"
There is actually a very easy solution to this but it will make everyone on these forums seethe with rage
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I've always felt that a stacking penalty for leaving a dungeon, or other group content, is the best deterrent.  
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Penalties aren't a deterrent, they just bring out worse behaviour. 
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			I'm not a fan of the deterrent at all really.  It is easy for a dps character to complain that the healer/tank they waited for should be punished for leaving, but there are also a lot of times when STAYING would be a punishment itself for some players and forcing them to stay with bad groups isn't the best solution either.  I remember doing an instance with my healer friend one day and we got a tank who didn't have any mitigation abilities slotted and who wanted to tank in assault gear far below his level.  What happens?  He blames the healer when he is two-shot and a vote-kick goes through successfully.  Now I should be forced to continue the run without my friend?  Honestly I would rather take the debuff and afk for 15min, but even that isn't ideal or fair to anyone.  
			
				
	Edited October 28, 2015 by futrix	
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So here's a crazy idea (as most of my ideas are somewhat crazy): How about instead of punishing leaving we reward staying around?
I'm thinking of a stackable buff that increases reward payout by a flat percentage up to a cap. Each time you complete an activity you queued up for you get one stack of the buff, if you leave you lose all stacks.
Let's assume a player has accumulated 10 stacks worth 2% each. He's now in a dungeon he doesn't want to run. He can either do it anyway and receive 20% additional gold, xp, renown etc or he can ditch the group and goes back to the base acquistion rate until he completes enough activities to build the buff back up.
Cap the buff at 40% - 20 stacks in this example - so things don't get too out of hand but it still takes a while to max out.*
 
That way there's a tangible reward tied to not being a jerk while having to leave for whatever reason is not synonymous to being locked out of playing the game for X time.
 
*I'm just throwing around numbers here. They'll obviously have to be adjusted to hit just the right spot.	
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Some people adamantly just won't do certain dungeons and will dick around and wait to be kicked and just waste a party slot, your time, and your patience.
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Could a queban increase be implemented to stop tanks and healers leaving dungeons they dont feel like doing at that point in time? as it is now they just vote for disband and if that fails they just leave anyway since the 15 minute queban is like nothing to them as they find a new group superfast anyway after that. 
 
Im thinking like at least a couple hours of queban for EVERYTHING.
And also make it so you can only disband after a certain amount of totalt wipes on bosses to at least try and avoid griefing assholes, it shouldnt be that hard to sort out i would imagine. And would hopefully make people actually you know, play the game...
 
Sort of a rant i know, but this is getting stupid and something needs to be done...
 
Thanks for your time.
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			Increasing the ban time wont stop me or anyone else from leaving a dungeon. Its 15 minutes of youtube or 1 hour of wipes because the group is horrid. Last time i checked youtube didn't cost me 1p in repairs so il stick with that
			
				
	Edited October 29, 2015 by Ufalicious	
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Or better yet... The quicker the someone quits, make the debuff longer.
 
So if someone quits instant on the start, without giving the party even a chance, make it longer ban, and the longer he stays with party (gives them a chance) reduce the quit debuff times.
 
Also add, if the does give the party a chance, and plays a bit, and then quits with good reason (system would track wipe count) then there would be no debuff at all.
If party does well (no wipes) but he still quits on them, debuff would still apply.
 
TLDR: add some smartness to debuff mechanics, not just making them brute force deterrent, but apply debuff per some statistics, and most important, do NOT PUBLISH how statistics work to player population, so people would not exploit them to quit and reduce their debuffs.	
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			Trying to controle others doesn't work so well. Empowering us individually, does. If we are short on tanks and heals, we have the options to roll as one of those instead of DPS.	
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			FYI, if you didn't see it in another thread, TT is talking about adding rewards for people who "mentor" in dungeons.	
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I'm with Ufa on this.  When I leave a dungeon i'm so upset i feel like logging off.
 
I remember this skullcano i was tanking.  The DPS was horrendus - it took us 2-3 minutes to kill thunderfoot, which happened because I hard-carried the fight as the DPS stood in telegraphs and died one by one.
 
After that we got to the lopp cave and i went DPS where I was instantly 50% of team damage.
 
Then my teammates kept walking into flame walls and dying.
 
After about 15 minutes of this stuff i felt like /uninstall.
 
The real problem is that the players did not match the content with their skill/gear level.  It would have been fine in STL, but these guys weren't ready for skullcano.
 
Please god, before you go into a vet dungeon, read a guide and rune your gear.  Please >.>
 
People who don't do this are just hoping to get a good group and get carried.  Show some effort.	
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OK so the answer is don't let just anyone queue, but make AI able to do some "gear check" before letting people in, to those who to not meet the requirements a message would pop when they try to que, ie. "your average item level is too low for this dungeon" or "your gear has empty rune slots" etc. depending what checks would be made.
 
And if then people quit, give them ban time.	
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			Why not just add them to your ignore list?	
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			A 2 hour penalty may work if it was account wide so they just couldnt log off on to a alt... but the issue is now you have a person that will not be playing well or may even try to screw up the run so the party would be forced to vote kick them any how.
			
				
	Edited November 5, 2015 by Happy_Puppy	
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but the issue is now you have a person that will not be playing well or may even try to screw up the run so the party would be forced to vote kick them any how.
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A 2 hour penalty may work if it was account wide so they just couldnt log off on to a alt... but the issue is now you have a person that will not be playing well or may even try to screw up the run so the party would be forced to vote kick them any how.
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Here is what you do.... Learn to play that support class that leaves and see why exactly they just leave~ 2 birds 1 stone~ and then there is only a 50% chance one of the support classes leave if your the other one~
 
Or you could continue to whine and complain while being a scumbag DPS and not try to step up and fix your own problem
			
				
	Edited November 5, 2015 by Techr	
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			you could always carry both sets of gear with you and when the tank/healer leaves you are table to take over for them.... stop making these types of posts if u only have 1 set of gear and only know 1 role of the game ... anyone can dps u know	
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So many bad ideas in this thread that would seriously hurt the game.
 
If you increase the timer, be it scaling or other wise, people will simply grief you until you kick them, or are forced to disband. It's as simple as that. If you don't kick or disband and try to attempt to 4 man it, you are simply giving the griefer free loot and money while they sit there laughing at you.
 
I think a lot of people in this thread need to take a giant step back and have a good long think about a number of things in their life.
 
I understand that no one likes to be kicked & no one likes for anyone to randomly ditch their team leaving them looking to replace them mid run. It happens though, and you need to accept it. There is a very simple solution to this never happening, make friends, join guilds and circles, use your ignore list, etc. YOU have all the power to prevent this from happening, this is not something carbine needs to take steps to correct anymore than they already have.
 
It's really as simple as that.	
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So many bad ideas in this thread that would seriously hurt the game.
 
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... use your ignore list, etc. YOU have all the power to prevent this from happening, this is not something carbine needs to take steps to correct anymore than they already have.
 
It's really as simple as that.
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			How many instances are there that people dont like to run? Maybe ask for ability to exclude a couple dungeons from your random queue. I like the idea of rewarding those for staying, much better then hurting them for leaving. 	
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How many instances are there that people dont like to run? Maybe ask for ability to exclude a couple dungeons from your random queue. I like the idea of rewarding those for staying, much better then hurting them for leaving. 
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			SlyJeff thanks. You use past, present, and future when reasoning and that is good. It seems the immediate solution is patience and helping out a random stranger, call me Cynic but that is something more rare anymore. If the game allows people to queue and get into a instance that their gear has no right to, that is up to the Devs.	
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Honestly - I don't mind running any instance.  Hell, we tried gold SSM today (barely missed it), would love to FINALLY get solid gold (long time coming).
 
for PUG?  STL or KV.  Just there is a level of bad i can deal with.	
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