121950-the-free-to-play-thread-page-2

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Don't forget to add the $15 per month per player subscription revenue.
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ok so times 15 by 40 subs
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			its a legit remark because most people have credd and dont have to spend money on the game and have plenty of cash in game...	
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its a legit remark because most people have credd and dont have to spend money on the game and have plenty of cash in game...
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			you know 100% of all credd thats sold isnt all by players.. right?	
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you know 100% of all credd thats sold isnt all by players.. right?
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you know 100% of all credd thats sold isnt all by players.. right?
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you know 100% of all credd thats sold isnt all by players.. right?
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			really though how can you justify those declining numbers, rofl. and if entity the most populated server NA runs out of credd, what does that tell you about the game?	
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Don't forget to add the $15 per month per player subscription revenue.
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			Ppl can play the game for free but they dont care to do it because they dont like it, at least in its current state. So imho there is only one way for WS and this is to be fixed. Optimization, PvP, Open World content, Queue times and LFG tool, guild housing, pets/companios etc are things needed to be fixed or added in order for this game to survive.	
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really though how can you justify those declining numbers, rofl. and if entity the most populated server NA runs out of credd, what does that tell you about the game?
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really though how can you justify those declining numbers, rofl. and if entity the most populated server NA runs out of credd, what does that tell you about the game?
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isnt it also for people that need plat? if the magority have the plat they need they wont buy CREDD and sell right?
 
btw i was considering buying it to up my plat but im waiting to see.	
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isnt it also for people that need plat? if the magority have the plat they need they wont buy CREDD and sell right?
 
btw i was considering buying it to up my plat but im waiting to see.
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isnt it also for people that need plat? if the magority have the plat they need they wont buy CREDD and sell right?
btw i was considering buying it to up my plat but im waiting to see.
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I'm pretty sure those numbers already contain those revenues. They made 5,5 bln Won in Q4 in total.
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			i think running out of credd is a good indicator, it means more people who buy their sub with platinum came into the game , and the ones who have money to buy credd are waiting for the market to regulate the prices to the inflationary influx of gold that came with drop 4. Dont worry credd will flow again but make your mind that maybe it will rise its price to 3x or even 4x cause the droprate of incoming gold for the average player have risen a lot.	
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isnt it also for people that need plat? if the magority have the plat they need they wont buy CREDD and sell right?
 
btw i was considering buying it to up my plat but im waiting to see.
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WoW i didnt think id agree with a dominion lol 
 
cute chua. ( pet pet pet)	
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WoW i didnt think id agree with a dominion lol
 
cute chua. ( pet pet pet)
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In regards to the report ncsoft released about earnings. People should not be putting stock in the 4Q14 Report, mainly due to the fact that we all knew the population has been declining since launch. What is not reflected in this report is the growth I have been seeing with a good ole fashion "eye test" in game. The reports that are going to really matter are 1Q15 and 2Q15. If they show a trend of increased revenue and the "eye test" keeps showing increased activity inside the game, then Wildstar is in a good position. Additionally, with the planned Chinese release, revenue will be increasing. NCSoft's best revenue comes from the Asia.
 
Drop 3 was a good start to the turn around. Drop 4 was a huge step up even from that. Now if they can nail Drop 5, mainly on the pvp side of things, we will be in a good position and hopefully this entire discussion can disappear. We DO NOT need a "WoW population" to sustain a game. Though I will admit, we do need more people, especially on the PvP servers.	
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In regards to the report ncsoft released about earnings. People should not be putting stock in the 4Q14 Report, mainly due to the fact that we all knew the population has been declining since launch. What is not reflected in this report is the growth I have been seeing with a good ole fashion "eye test" in game. The reports that are going to really matter are 1Q15 and 2Q15. If they show a trend of increased revenue and the "eye test" keeps showing increased activity inside the game, then Wildstar is in a good position. Additionally, with the planned Chinese release, revenue will be increasing. NCSoft's best revenue comes from the Asia.
 
Drop 3 was a good start to the turn around. Drop 4 was a huge step up even from that. Now if they can nail Drop 5, mainly on the pvp side of things, we will be in a good position and hopefully this entire discussion can disappear. We DO NOT need a "WoW population" to sustain a game. Though I will admit, we do need more people, especially on the PvP servers.
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That a lot of people came back and decided to buy a CREDD with their plat.  If the population is stagnant or falling, that wouldn't happen, since CREDD as a commodity isn't tied to player population, just people paying extra.
 
If it says anything, it says that F2P probably won't work, since your population that wants to play for free is coming close at this moment to outstripping the population willing to pay extra for them to be there.  That's the sublime thing about the CREDD system, as a F2P system, it is self-regulating and carries few of the drawbacks of actual F2P.  In an F2P system, the developer would need to "guess" how much money they need to make and they have to make sure that enough is behind the paywall to cover their costs.  With CREDD, people can play for free, but only so many as the subscribing population will allow.
 
Adding more free players above and beyond what people are even willing to pay for liquid currency, then, probably will not work.  Especially if a traditional F2P transition will cause a lot of us who actually do have money (and don't want to spend more on general principle) to leave.
 
But, as I said, you can have all the free players you want if they are a self-contained, self-sustaining entity.  Install all the pay walls, ad banners, and content walls you want on them.  Nerf them and force them to pay for buffs that will make them equal to a paying player.  You can, in fact, have free players pay for themselves without directly paying for themselves, while still leaving the subscribers and CREDD users alone to enjoy the game as we have been enjoying it.  You'd find quite a bit more support for that.
 
NCSoft thinks 15$ a month is a fair price, and so do we.  It's completely fair that if someone wants to play without paying, the price of playing without paying should fall squarely on them.  They can make up revenue in other ways without becoming a drag on the subscribed playerbase.  We who are already "chipped in", in whatever way, for this month deserve everything developed this month.  And hey, if the people don't like those free conditions, it only costs a dinner for two at McDonalds per month to get whatever they develop that month and all the game we already enjoy.  It's their choice not to.
 
But if Entity is starting to run low on CREDD, it's a good indicator that we're already at "peak free player supported by subscribers".
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Below are my opinions.
 
Reason why CREDD is not B2P/F2P and can not be thought of as a messure.
 
In order to take advantage of CREDD as a returning player:
--Pay for ONE month sub,
--If you have chars that are not 50 and are able to craft than you may need to pay for TWO months of Sub.
--If you are new to the game than you're in a better position as you just pay for the game and get ONE month free while perhaps may have to sub for another month.
 
CREDD will NEVER bring players back because if the player does not wish to buy ONE or TWO months of sub and are able to start grinding and crafting up the PLAT to buy more CREDD once he comes back than NO GO.
 
Most players have this CREDD thing wrong!  It's a good system to keep already sub players that wish to forgo subs to continue playing or bring in new players that have never played before.  It's a complete BLOCKING WALL of HALT, can not enter or even try for old players that are trying to come back.
 
I would like to come back to this game and level up my level 28 char so that I can grind and craft up some plat to buy CREDD.  However I can't do that without buying about 2 months of sub to support the time it would take obtain the goal of buying CREDD and thus I won't even bother with it.
 
That is why CREDD does not work.  That is why you all are wrong to think CREDD promotes and handles the B2P aspects of the game.  That is why you can't use CREDD as any sort of merssurement of how B2P/F2P would work in this game.
 
This game is dying, and the Qrt reports shows that.  This game may go B2P/F2P at some point in time if the investors say so.  You all can fight it all you want, but all your fighting is for nought.  I'm only here because I found a 7 day key in my email from last year.  I love the playstyle of my medic class, and I love the beautiful world.  None of that means anything in the end though because I already have access to other B2P/F2P games that are just as good and in some cases better.  That's another issue with any game that charges a sub is that they have to go up against a fleet of B2P/F2P games that are doing what they're doing and sometimes even better.  That is another reason why WS pops are down to their loyal fanboys and thus not a lot of ppl in the world.  If WS was B2P than I'd consider coming back to the game and buy expansions and maybe some neat stuff out of a store from time to time.
 
Either way it doesn't matter to me if WS stays sub or go with something else.  Why?  Because I already have more than enough great B2P/F2P games!  ESO, RiFT, LOTRO, Elite Dangerous, Star Citizen, EQN, the list is huge and goes on and on and on and I don't even have enough time in my life for it all.  Do you all really think that sub games will continue in the future?  Folks... it's almost over with!  Why would I spend: 59.99 dollars for the game, 155.88 for 12 month sub or 179.88 in time cards, 29.99 to 49.99 for a yearly expansion, and some money in fluffy cash shop... in order to play a sub game when I could spend 59.99 on B2P game, 29.99 to 49.99 for a yearly expansion, and some money in the cash shop (speaking for my self probably no more than 20 a year).
 
BUT BUT they need all that money to fund the game and bring more content (which they will charge you 60 dollars for anyways hehe). LOL, no they don't.  Game studios around the world has spent the last 40 years building multi year gaming projects, sold them at the same ol 50/60 dollar price, made back and than some money, and went to work on a new game or expansion to do it all over again and again and again.  MMOs however came up with a great idea to make bank!  Charging you all for enough money that you could have bought 5 to 7 games a year with!  They put a spin on it and make you all think that it goes toward content which they will charge you for anyways when the expansion comes out.  If they really needed 5+ games worth of extra money for their live MMO than why do they have 100s of millions in the bank and in some cases billions in the bank and why do they continue charging you all multi times for same content such as expansions.  Wouldn't all that extra sub money be used up in DEV cost? LOL, you been fooled to think otherwise.  Folks it's called profits (which they have the right to make), but where is all that paid for quality content that you expected for such a huge investment?  Take note how MMO game studios around the world make bank, lay off instead of hiring game DEVs, shrink down the amount of content they give you for free throughout the year, and in some cases charge you for small expansions, while still charging you a sub, putting a unwanted cashs hop into the game, and still making bank.  Just my opinion of course. :)
 
I'm finish with paying insain money (5+ games worth a year) to be able to play ONE MMO (there was a time i had three multi year subs going).  I will no longer be a slave to such a system and that is another reason why players are leaving sub games.  Ask a normal console player why he dosn't play PC games such as MMOs and he'll tell you he'd rather spend all that money on a handfull of games per year instead of just one.
 
All of the above are my opinions, and I do wish you all a lot of fun.  I also hope wildstar will have a great many of good years ahead of it no matter what model it has.
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really though how can you justify those declining numbers, rofl. and if entity the most populated server NA runs out of credd, what does that tell you about the game?
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I love the playstyle of my medic class, and I love the beautiful world.  None of that means anything in the end though because I already have access to other B2P/F2P games that are just as good and in some cases better.  
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			CREDD is a great system in place.  I still don't get how some people simply don't understand what this actually is in terms of it NOT being any type of F2P/B2P type system.  Someone is actually spending their own real money on it and selling it in game.  So they are basically paying for that persons sub for the month.  it is no different from that person paying their own sub and not having CREDD in game.  This just helps those who may be cash strapped and love the game to where they can pay for their game time then with in-game currency.  Along with other scenarios.  Either way, Carbine is still basically getting the sub money.  WoW is even going to go to this system.  Personally I wish the other mmo's that went f2p tried this instead.	
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Additionally, with the planned Chinese release, revenue will be increasing. NCSoft's best revenue comes from the Asia.
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You seem to be worried about how much money is paid by the players to play.  I'll make this easy for you:
 
-There is a certain number of people who will pay to play the game.
 
-There is a certain number of people who will buy a CREDD to play the game.
 
-There is a certain number of people who will do neither, but will play the game if it is free.
 
The one thing you know is that adding that third group will increase costs but not revenue, since they will be playing for free.  So, if that's happening, and the second group isn't increasing, where do the increased shortfalls get made up?  By increasing the rates on the first group.  That money comes from somewhere.  This is the problem with the argument about F2P, it's not free.  B2P isn't either.  It is fundamentally worse for players because it sets up a very disgusting decision, "Pay to win, or don't pay and suffer."
 
Right now, I'm paying 15 dollars a month and getting everything developed.  My wife and I cost more going to lunch at Chipotle.  Considering I finish all the other 60 dollar games out there within a few days, and Wildstar's been holding my attention since open beta, I'm thinking it's been worth my money.
 
Want to let free people in?  Let them deal with a cash shop, let them buy boosts to catch up to us.  We aren't the problem here, we're paid up.  Not many of us are looking forward to making that decision.  I know I certainly won't make that decision.  I'll simply leave, and I'll take my money (which I will spend at the rate NCSoft thinks is fair right now) elsewhere.
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Show me the declining numbers.  Q4 2014 =/= Q1 2015, when Drop 4 happened, when population started coming back.
 
If the most populated server runs out of Credd it means that either A: there's a bug in the system with displaying/selling it, OR B: a bunch of people came back to the game and bought it.  Credd cannot exist unless someone shells out $20 first and puts it on the market.
 
Edit:  Stupid smileys.
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CREDD is a great system in place.  I still don't get how some people simply don't understand what this actually is in terms of it NOT being any type of F2P/B2P type system.  Someone is actually spending their own real money on it and selling it in game.  So they are basically paying for that persons sub for the month.  it is no different from that person paying their own sub and not having CREDD in game.  This just helps those who may be cash strapped and love the game to where they can pay for their game time then with in-game currency.  Along with other scenarios.  Either way, Carbine is still basically getting the sub money.  WoW is even going to go to this system.  Personally I wish the other mmo's that went f2p tried this instead.
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I'm not your enemy, I'm not here to beg for WS to be B2P/F2P, I really don't care what model is used.  I only wanted to shed some light on why vast amount of gamers these days are done with sub-base games.  Share with you all my opinion is what I came here to do.  I admire loyality that some of you have for WildStar by the way.  Just because you're willing to spend just as much money at some eat-joint doesn't mean others or I would justify it.  Just like I won't, anymore / evermore, paying huge sums of money (5 full games worth) per year for one game.  I also want to thank you for not coming off hard on me or bashing me.
 
Also, in all honesty, even if WS adopted B2P or a F2P (let's hope F2P wouldn't be adopted) I probably won't come back to WS (some folks have already written the game off as history).  I have far too much on my plate game wise anyways.  I'll probably lock my self in my house when StarCitizen comes out LOL.
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But, as I said, you can have all the free players you want if they are a self-contained, self-sustaining entity.  Install all the pay walls, ad banners, and content walls you want on them.  Nerf them and force them to pay for buffs that will make them equal to a paying player.  You can, in fact, have free players pay for themselves without directly paying for themselves, while still leaving the subscribers and CREDD users alone to enjoy the game as we have been enjoying it.  You'd find quite a bit more support for that.
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Just playing devil's advocate for a second here, not that he needs one, but isn't this essentially a pay-to-win situation?  Just because you call them subscribers doesn't mean they aren't paying for an advantage.
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That's why F2P always, inevitably, slides into P2W and superior gear on the cash shop.  That's actually how the system generates any money at all.
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fix the game performance and u will have tons of ppl coming back 
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Game performance seems fine to me.  I don't know of anyone that has issues with optimization since the fixes.  Maybe it's your computer?  Just maybe, that could be the answer...
 
In terms of F2P - there's this thing called C.R.E.D.D.  Use it.
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I do, WildStar has really crap ass performance.
 
I can run Battlefield 4 and Tomb Raider 2013 at higher frame rates at maxed graphics.
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Can still be your hardware. Especially if you're running AMD or laptop hardware, yes even if it's your fancy Alienware.
Wildstar had issues, but they have been improving a lot with each Drop. Their biggest issue still seems to be the netcode and server stability sometimes. And their ISP.
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Most raiders report a lot of performance issues, even on extremely high end hardware.
Constant restarts reloadui and generally low FPS problems still plague the game, reguardless of hardware.
WildStar still performs very poorly even on Nvida hardware.
Far lower performance than what's expected of such a low shader/graphics complexity game engine.
 
Guild Wars 2 vastly outperforms WildStar due to its optimization efforts, quite fantastically. I can max out the game as high as possible with supersampling and still get above 60FPS everywhere in Eyefinity, WildStar needs to follow suit with optimization.
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			Im back 3 days now, and i like the game it is now, sadly not on a PVP Realm but hey, but if the game goes F2P im gone so fast and will never come back.	
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lightning and particles function in that room.
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"that room"
What does that even mean...
lol...
That's kinda funny, because tons of overclockers and custom PC builders choose i7's for their gaming rigs...
Perhaps you should wander over to http://www.overclock.net/
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Yes Wildstar does not like AMD, Yes Wildstar does not like SLI, yes WildStar does not like I7s with hyperthreading.
I7s should not be used for gaming in the first place, their usage is something totally different.
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Hey folks, 
 
Lets try to get back on topic here please. If you want to discuss optimization or tech related subjects, we have a section of the forums made just for that as well as a pinned thread here in General.
 
Thank you.
- Team WildStar	
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			fine....	
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This is such an uneducated statement it's not even funny.
The game is running mighty fine on my i7 2600 +GTX780, it's not even sweating since the game does a great job at loading all the heavy work onto the GPU.
 
I have my own suspicions as to why the fps takes a significant hit in certain areas, I think the game just lacks occluders where needed or handles them pretty badly and has your GPU/CPU draw objects, decor, players or the scenery where they can't actually be seen (behind walls and such).
 
 
Where is she being hostile?!
 
 
Would you please stop being so obnoxious with your text formats, it makes me not want to quote you...
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Thanks for the feedback everyone. This thread has gone off topic for some time now and has outlived its usefulness. Again if you want to discuss client optimization, we have active threads and designated areas for that. Please keep the personal insults out of it. They have no place on our forums. 
 
Thank you.
- Team WildStar 	
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