125027-hello-and-goodbye-for-now

== Content ==
			
So, i tried the game the last month playing casually. I finished the first region with almost all the classes, just left the warrior at 10 because i could not stand make the same content again a 6th time.In the end i decided i will not subscribe, and it is a pity, because the game is nice.Here is my feedback 
PRO
great art, animations and style
great combat, i loved double jumping and rolling all over the place
a lot of humour, i'd even like it to be a little more mature also, i blame content rating restrictions :/
great platformer control style
lot of thing s to do
crafting is not just click and forget
much better performances then from my beta time, those were a reason for which i didn't start playing
no game-invasive shop like in GW2, i hate when in that other game you need to buy with real money nearly P2W things, like more performing extractors, harvesting tools, salvaging kits, lockbox keys etc
enemies explode in pieces often :)
heavily moddable UI by addons, FYeah!
the musics are VERY well made
 
CONS
the game has a very old architecture
holy trinity: DPS...why DPS? it is such a dull mode, it should be just abolished.Want to keep role distinction? Ok then add another... whatever... energy healer, CC, debuffer, interrupter ... something actually useful! Then the lack of the DPS can be easily compensated by group specific buff to players or debuff to enemies to keep balance.
large group content as routineToday is hard enough to get by 5ppl to group, let alone 20, more over if you imply a weelky schedule for progression.I knew this game started as hardcore with 40ppl raids and that is a reason why  i avoided it after the beta, i did my raids back in vanilla wow, and got way more than fed up with that.I mean i could understand large raids if they were actually unique, so rare to be epic, happening with a very rare occurrence like the conjunction of all the planets in our system, but  in the actual state of the game raids are something you have to do, like a routine, it get just as boring as a boring job.So i would cut routine content ppl requirement to 5ppl max for what you call raids, and to 3 for dungeons (in regard for what i said about dps class above)There are public events, i could not comment on those, in the starter zone the place is a desert, i can't even queue for dungeons :(
ePeen Meter everywhereI like when a game has a good set of numeric rules under the hood, but that is the point they should stay hunder the hood.When i was a kid and played tabletop RPGs only the master had to know the whole rules, there was no dps meter anywhere, there was just a very funny critical effect the master announced it was happening to us or to some poor creature, that was FUN.You cannot measure FUN, the more you try the more you kill it. So cut the numbers in the logs available to player, replace quantity meter with some quality which can't be measured and let the game take care of the things under the hood which only the game master can see: let the machine take care of the boring part and let the fun for players.
roll for loot: again "welcome to the year 2000", every player should get a personal loot, i'm fed up with DKP sheeet.
only one planet/no space mode/no crewWhy? i'm trying STO, and even if it is a totally P2W game thanks to P2WE, even if the graphic sux bad in comparrison to WS that game is actually fun while levelling, you have a ship and a full crew to command while you are on the ground 
So this is it i hope to come back and see the rest, but for now i have no time for something i basically have already been in 10-15 years ago already.	
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holy trinity: DPS...why DPS? it is such a dull mode, it should be just abolished.
Want to keep role distinction? Ok then add another... whatever... energy healer, CC, debuffer, interrupter ... something actually useful! Then the lack of the DPS can be easily compensated by group specific buff to players or debuff to enemies to keep balance.
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			When you say the first region what does that mean? 	
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DPS is great fun in this game.
 
And you want to REMOVE the 20 man instances from the game? These fights wouldn't make ANY sense as 5 mans- they were not designed that way.
 
I mean, I get not wanting to do 20 man stuff, but don't ruin the fun for the rest of us . . .	
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When you say the first region what does that mean? 
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There's a whole hell of a lot more weight on a DPS's shoulders in this game than any other game.
Makes me wonder if you've even played into the dungeons.
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I'll say this, don't judge ANYTHING in this game as boring until you are able to run one of the level 20 dungeons.
 
Admittedly, it's hard to get those to pop since most people just wait to cap to do most of the instanced content. But while there are valid criticisms to make about WS, saying something is boring without trying the most exciting content isn't helpful.	
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the game has a very old architecture 
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Huh.  Lots of buzzwords in there (quantity meter to quality under the hood?).  Well obviously not to his taste.
 
Maybe there's a little something to discuss though in a meaningful fashion.  The comment about the standard trinity model I thought was interesting.  The tank/heal/dps model is certainly well-worn.  I actually do applaud games that strike out and try to find alternative answers to this.  The major player here is GW2.  When that launched, it was hailed as a total break from that model.  Everyone was to take care of themselves and that's all there was to it.  Great on paper and as a promo mechanic.  After fussing with it for a year though, I found that I longed for the trinity model again and actually this is a major reason why I left GW2.  The instance meta became how to exploit map and terrain.  Stack and burn.  Gone were the intricacies of fights, the sense of ensemble meshing together.  There's some room for that (WS's shiphands are not too unlike that -- though also relegated in difficulty and importance under team play), but as the basis for all group dynamics I certainly didn't care for it.
 
I think it limits the kinds of encounters you can design as well.  While Ohmna's random antics give me a headache, there's no doubt that this is an intricate fight from threat mechanics, to skilled damage and skilled healing phases, mechanical challenges, and timing challenges.  Those things wouldn't be possible without the underlying foundational model of control/heal/damage.
 
I've been interested in my son's experiences with Final Fantasy in this vein.  I understand they have a sort of modified standard team, tank, heal, damage and support?  Something like that.  And then their group content just doubles, four to eight to sixteen.  It's been an interesting variation on a theme...
 
But the theme is still there, at the core.	
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Just proto games level 10 one, yes i was lucky once. It went so fast i can't really comment on that sorry.
 
What i don't like is that having a dps bring a dps meter mentality.... i just hate that
i got to Illium after completing Deradune or Ellevar ...omg Ellevar gets boring so soon in comparrison to Deradune
 
I'll continue to the next zone with one of my char for the last days remaining on my sub
 
nice one, and wrong btw
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I'll say this, don't judge ANYTHING in this game as boring until you are able to run one of the level 20 dungeons.
 
Admittedly, it's hard to get those to pop since most people just wait to cap to do most of the instanced content. But while there are valid criticisms to make about WS, saying something is boring without trying the most exciting content isn't helpful.
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Thx, i'll try that, one of my char is 18 i think, i might get the chance in time
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Honestly I think there is already a game out there for you: Guild Wars 2.
 
Not saying that as "ohhhh noob go away," I actually play both haha.	
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Honestly I think there is already a game out there for you: Guild Wars 2.
 
Not saying that as "ohhhh noob go away," I actually play both haha.
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Been a while since I played Rift, do they still have the "support" role?
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I agree somewhat. The architecture just doesn't struck me as something futuristic. And I find that there's a lack of variety in Eldan architecture. There should be some ancient city where Eldan actually lived. Would be interesting to see how their houses actually looked like. All we've seen so far are green/purple labs that all look same :)
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Hey folks, voicing opinions is just fine so long as the personal insults stay out of it. Please keep feedback constructive. 
 
- Team WildStar 	
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Honestly I think there is already a game out there for you: Guild Wars 2.
 
Not saying that as "ohhhh noob go away," I actually play both haha.
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Just proto games level 10 one, yes i was lucky once. It went so fast i can't really comment on that sorry.
 
What i don't like is that having a dps bring a dps meter mentality.... i just hate that
i got to Illium after completing Deradune or Ellevar ...omg Ellevar gets boring so soon in comparrison to Deradune
 
I'll continue to the next zone with one of my char for the last days remaining on my sub
 
nice one, and wrong btw
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			:(	
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So you haven't played enough to make even have the statements you did. How would you know anything about the 20 man content if your highest character is only 18? You're trolling and not very successfully I might add.
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i'm sorry pal, i'm altholic, wanted to try all the classes, didn't make in time to go further, i've read online tho, consulted the wiki, watched videos and such :)
 
I hope i'll have time to resub later this summer
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			He's not insulting you guys personally by not liking content. For example: I think soccer is REALLY boring. That's not an insult to those of you with incredibly bad taste in sports who actually like that bore-fest.	
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He's not insulting you guys personally by not liking content. For example: I think soccer is REALLY boring. That's not an insult to those of you with incredibly bad taste in sports who actually like that bore-fest.
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So, i tried the game the last month playing casually. I finished the first region
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Saying "I think playing soccer is REALLY boring and should be changed" when you've never played it is not insulting, but it is useless and antagonistic.
 
He did say that DPS is boring without trying DPS in the place where DPS matters, and he did say to take out 20 man instances without even knowing much about them.
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Then... disregard his opinion? I'm seeing a lot of defensiveness in this thread though.
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He's not insulting you guys personally by not liking content. For example: I think soccer is REALLY boring. That's not an insult to those of you with incredibly bad taste in sports who actually like that bore-fest.
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Did they live on Nexus, i don't think so?
 
Nexus was more an laboratory from what i get from the story. 
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So you haven't played enough to make even have the statements you did. How would you know anything about the 20 man content if your highest character is only 18? You're trolling and not very successfully I might add.
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Well, I can kind of agree about DPS, but probably not the way OP is saying do away with the role. I would actually like to see 4 man dungeons like ff14, not in this game necessarily, except change the composition to 1 tank 1 healer, 1 DPS, 1 suport(debuff/buff). 
 
I feel like most mmos do not put enough importance on DPS and consequently there is always this bad ratio of DPS to tanks/healers. Now, wildstar does do a better job on this by adding in interrupt and movement intensity, but it's still possible to drag a DPS through a vet dungeon. Think about it, what if when a DPS dies in your group it's as bad as if the tank died? Yes I know in the raids that actually is the case on some fights. I just think it would be more interesting for it to be a scenario were all roles are critical and not, "Well, we still have 2 DPS up and Johnny no name wasn't pulling that high on the meters anyway."	
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Well, I can kind of agree about DPS, but probably not the way OP is saying do away with the role. I would actually like to see 4 man dungeons like ff14, not in this game necessarily, except change the composition to 1 tank 1 healer, 1 DPS, 1 suport(debuff/buff).
 
I feel like most mmos do not put enough importance on DPS and consequently there is always this bad ratio of DPS to tanks/healers. Now, wildstar does do a better job on this by adding in interrupt and movement intensity, but it's still possible to drag a DPS through a vet dungeon. Think about it, what if when a DPS dies in your group it's as bad as if the tank died? Yes I know in the raids that actually is the case on some fights. I just think it would be more interesting for it to be a scenario were all roles are critical and not, "Well, we still have 2 DPS up and Johnny no name wasn't pulling that high on the meters anyway."
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it's still possible to drag a DPS through a vet dungeon
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			Oh Sly, don't get me started on stormtalon.....I actually lost two guild members back when silver was a requitement. They actually rage quit the game lol. Anyway, it's true, as I said wildstar does make DPS more interesting than other games. I was just thinking it would be awesome to make them as important as tank and heals in all group dungeons not just most. I love good group synergy and I'd love to see a game really pander to that idea is all.	
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... but in fights like Mordechai in SC, it's not often a single tank and a healer can down him if the DPS can't double-dutch.
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I think the reason the ratios are what they are is because most people prefer to DPS. So you have to set the ratios that way or else most DPS will get left out in the cold.
 
It's interesting, because I actually find DPS the most challenging role in most situations, though usually with the least responsibility.
 
In terms of challenge, I fee like it goes DPS<<<Healer<<Tank, but in terms of responsibility, it goes Tank<<Healer<<DPS. That is, until you start out gearing the place. Then healers can kind of go take a hike for 98% of the instance.	
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So, i tried the game the last month playing casually. I finished the first region with almost all the classes, just left the warrior at 10 because i could not stand make the same content again a 6th time.
In the end i decided i will not subscribe, and it is a pity, because the game is nice.
 
Here is my feedback
 
PRO
great art, animations and style
great combat, i loved double jumping and rolling all over the place
a lot of humour, i'd even like it to be a little more mature also, i blame content rating restrictions :/
great platformer control style
lot of thing s to do
crafting is not just click and forget
much better performances then from my beta time, those were a reason for which i didn't start playing
no game-invasive shop like in GW2, i hate when in that other game you need to buy with real money nearly P2W things, like more performing extractors, harvesting tools, salvaging kits, lockbox keys etc
enemies explode in pieces often :)
heavily moddable UI by addons, FYeah!
the musics are VERY well made
 
CONS
the game has a very old architecture
holy trinity: DPS...why DPS? it is such a dull mode, it should be just abolished.Want to keep role distinction? Ok then add another... whatever... energy healer, CC, debuffer, interrupter ... something actually useful! Then the lack of the DPS can be easily compensated by group specific buff to players or debuff to enemies to keep balance.
large group content as routineToday is hard enough to get by 5ppl to group, let alone 20, more over if you imply a weelky schedule for progression.I knew this game started as hardcore with 40ppl raids and that is a reason why i avoided it after the beta, i did my raids back in vanilla wow, and got way more than fed up with that.I mean i could understand large raids if they were actually unique, so rare to be epic, happening with a very rare occurrence like the conjunction of all the planets in our system, but in the actual state of the game raids are something you have to do, like a routine, it get just as boring as a boring job.So i would cut routine content ppl requirement to 5ppl max for what you call raids, and to 3 for dungeons (in regard for what i said about dps class above)There are public events, i could not comment on those, in the starter zone the place is a desert, i can't even queue for dungeons :(
ePeen Meter everywhereI like when a game has a good set of numeric rules under the hood, but that is the point they should stay hunder the hood.When i was a kid and played tabletop RPGs only the master had to know the whole rules, there was no dps meter anywhere, there was just a very funny critical effect the master announced it was happening to us or to some poor creature, that was FUN.You cannot measure FUN, the more you try the more you kill it. So cut the numbers in the logs available to player, replace quantity meter with some quality which can't be measured and let the game take care of the things under the hood which only the game master can see: let the machine take care of the boring part and let the fun for players.
roll for loot: again "welcome to the year 2000", every player should get a personal loot, i'm fed up with DKP sheeet.
only one planet/no space mode/no crewWhy? i'm trying STO, and even if it is a totally P2W game thanks to P2WE, even if the graphic sux bad in comparrison to WS that game is actually fun while levelling, you have a ship and a full crew to command while you are on the ground
So this is it i hope to come back and see the rest, but for now i have no time for something i basically have already been in 10-15 years ago already.
 
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			I think you may misunderstand me Yaz, I don't think dps are unimportant in Wildstar, they are actually more important than they've ever been in this game, I feel like they're made unimportant in most MMO's. Also, I don't believe wildstar should change anything about its group make up as that would take to much effort that isn't necessary since this games make up works quite well. I'm just saying in general I would love to see other online games try this idea.	
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your list of cons just makes it sound like MMO is not the genre for you.
 
remove dps
remove raids
remove the ability to use dps meters....
 
how bout No.	
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CONS
holy trinity: DPS...why DPS? it is such a dull mode, it should be just abolished. 
Want to keep role distinction? Ok then add another... whatever... energy healer, CC, debuffer, interrupter ... something actually useful! Then the lack of the DPS can be easily compensated by group specific buff to players or debuff to enemies to keep balance.
  I don't think you've explored the game enough to see how not all DPS is linear
large group content as routineToday is hard enough to get by 5ppl to group, let alone 20, more over if you imply a weelky schedule for progression.
I knew this game started as hardcore with 40ppl raids and that is a reason why  i avoided it after the beta, i did my raids back in vanilla wow, and got way more than fed up with that.
I mean i could understand large raids if they were actually unique, so rare to be epic, happening with a very rare occurrence like the conjunction of all the planets in our system, but  in the actual state of the game raids are something you have to do, like a routine, it get just as boring as a boring job.
So i would cut routine content ppl requirement to 5ppl max for what you call raids, and to 3 for dungeons (in regard for what i said about dps class above)
There are public events, i could not comment on those, in the starter zone the place is a desert, i can't even queue for dungeons :(
I agree and disagree here. I think they should leave routine content for 5-10 people. then make some rare, weekly content for 20 (so 2 raid groups can merge together etc)  I also think they should add more weekly 30-50-100+ weekly bosses.  Dungeon queues are a problem. There really is no incentive for a max level character to run a non veteran version.  I think that needs to change.
ePeen Meter everywhereI like when a game has a good set of numeric rules under the hood, but that is the point they should stay hunder the hood.
When i was a kid and played tabletop RPGs only the master had to know the whole rules, there was no dps meter anywhere, there was just a very funny critical effect the master announced it was happening to us or to some poor creature, that was FUN.
You cannot measure FUN, the more you try the more you kill it. So cut the numbers in the logs available to player, replace quantity meter with some quality which can't be measured and let the game take care of the things under the hood which only the game master can see: let the machine take care of the boring part and let the fun for players.
I think that's personal preference, and something you can find between guilds
roll for loot: again "welcome to the year 2000", every player should get a personal loot, i'm fed up with DKP sheeet.
I agree here.  I think RNG loot weekly after a boss is an outdated concept, and is simply a byproduct of games not producing enough content.  Artificial timesinks are not fun.
only one planet/no space mode/no crewWhy? i'm trying STO, and even if it is a totally P2W game thanks to P2WE, even if the graphic sux bad in comparrison to WS that game is actually fun while levelling, you have a ship and a full crew to command while you are on the ground
While set in space, with a lot of spacey features (like shiphands), this game is a WoW clone, not a space wars clone
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As a note, the "buff" role is already done to some degree in raids, and will only expand with the next drop. Currently, there are often members of the raid assigned to run debuff or buff abilities on their bar that lower their personal dps, but contribute to the raids overall dps. I know for a fact that among our spellslingers, the lowest dps is always required to run arcane missiles (for the magic damage debuff), and among warriors, usually one of us will run smackdown (its not as big a hit to our dps so it just kinda rotates)
 
In addition, from what I understand of the next patch (at least for warriors), there will be a full support build that does not include tanking. Essentially, for maximum damage one of the warriors will need to give up a very significant portion of damage to run and maintain the powerlink buff for the entire raid. I believe spellslingers are also gaining a huge buff to their aoe group buff as well. 
 
The devs have also stated that they want to make everything viable, so that going fully up the Support AMP tree is actually a good option for any class. 
 
Essentially, I suspect that over the next year we will see Wildstar raids evolve into a true 4 role system. Whether this comes down to smaller group content like dungeons remains to be seen. 	
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As a note, the "buff" role is already done to some degree in raids, and will only expand with the next drop. Currently, there are often members of the raid assigned to run debuff or buff abilities on their bar that lower their personal dps, but contribute to the raids overall dps. I know for a fact that among our spellslingers, the lowest dps is always required to run arcane missiles (for the magic damage debuff), and among warriors, usually one of us will run smackdown (its not as big a hit to our dps so it just kinda rotates)
 
In addition, from what I understand of the next patch (at least for warriors), there will be a full support build that does not include tanking. Essentially, for maximum damage one of the warriors will need to give up a very significant portion of damage to run and maintain the powerlink buff for the entire raid. I believe spellslingers are also gaining a huge buff to their aoe group buff as well. 
 
The devs have also stated that they want to make everything viable, so that going fully up the Support AMP tree is actually a good option for any class. 
 
Essentially, I suspect that over the next year we will see Wildstar raids evolve into a true 4 role system. Whether this comes down to smaller group content like dungeons remains to be seen. 
 
 
I actually have been made aware of the PL set up in the next patch. It also seems that I will be taking on this role in our raid, as the other warrior wants to run AB and I'm not big on being the big man on the meters(used to play tank, but it's no longer needed for me to tank.) I totally love this by the way and if you're right about that speculation then I would be all for it!
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Just a short comment about the holy trinity. I Tried to run dungeons in gw2 where they lack that sort of thing...it WAS PAINFULL!...Its to stressfull that all members have to fulfill all roles in one person. It was not fun to kite, dps, heal, tank, personal survival etc....its MUCH better that party members have different roles...for me..I like easy things so I only DPS in any game....for the more hardcore ppl..tank and heal:
 
EDIT: and tbo....playing on the dominion side is lonely...	
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I stopped there.
 
How to give an opinion on a game by having made only the first region of the game?
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While I don't agree with most of the criticism, if the first zone of a game doesn't pull you in to try more you've done something wrong.
Otherwise no point in the free trials.
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I'll say this, don't judge ANYTHING in this game as boring until you are able to run one of the level 20 dungeons.
 
Admittedly, it's hard to get those to pop since most people just wait to cap to do most of the instanced content. But while there are valid criticisms to make about WS, saying something is boring without trying the most exciting content isn't helpful.
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That being said, WTB first zone raids :D
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Thanks all for your comments, I'm displeased someone took my opinion like something personal and reacted badly, my point in my feedback is just the opposite, this is just a game and it should be just about having fun.
 
I've been thinking these days upon all your comments and i appreciate the positivist ones (those who constructively critiqued my feedback and added to it) while when the the critic deranged i felt i, as first, made a mistake in my exposure.I've sincerely enjoyed the game so far, what stopped me is that i realized i was in a game that aside from gorgeous arts and sound, LAS and telegraph action combat, it was exactly a wow clone from year 2000ish, so if i continued playing i knew i would get to a point when i will feel like i was playing again in that same very game i was playing back then in the year 2000ish, just in different clothes. And back then in the end it happened i realized i didn't liked it at all.Would i recommend this game to all those people that arecurrently playing WoW or Rift or even GW2 instead? Totally!I think this game is made far better than wow or rift and i don't get that moneygrab attitude i always get when playing gw2.
But yet it just happens it is not for me. 
From my short experience the game was so appealing, for so many lovely details were put in it, that I just wished i had found a game more intrinsically evolved, which took the good and left the bad behind from all the games it resemble, but it wasn't so. That's it, it is just about my single opinion :)I wish you all just will have fun, whatever, really!See ya, mayhaps
 
PS: Mod did you really had to move this in off-topic? Looks shady you know :/	
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Thanks all for your comments, I'm displeased someone took my opinion like something personal and reacted badly, my point in my feedback is just the opposite, this is just a game and it should be just about having fun.
 
I've been thinking these days upon all your comments and i appreciate the positivist ones (those who constructively critiqued my feedback and added to it) while when the the critic deranged i felt i, as first, made a mistake in my exposure.
 
I've sincerely enjoyed the game so far, what stopped me is that i realized i was in a game that aside from gorgeous arts and sound, LAS and telegraph action combat, it was exactly a wow clone from year 2000ish, so if i continued playing i knew i would get to a point when i will feel like i was playing again in that same very game i was playing back then in the year 2000ish, just in different clothes. And back then in the end it happened i realized i didn't liked it at all.
Would i recommend this game to all those people that arecurrently playing WoW or Rift or even GW2 instead? Totally!
I think this game is made far better than wow or rift and i don't get that moneygrab attitude i always get when playing gw2.
But yet it just happens it is not for me.
 
From my short experience the game was so appealing, for so many lovely details were put in it, that I just wished i had found a game more intrinsically evolved, which took the good and left the bad behind from all the games it resemble, but it wasn't so. 
That's it, it is just about my single opinion :)
 
I wish you all just will have fun, whatever, really!
 
See ya, mayhaps
 
PS: Mod did you really had to move this in off-topic? Looks shady you know :/
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it was exactly a wow clone from year 2000ish, 
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I didn't play WoW when it first came out, so I don't know what makes this is a WoW clone? Elaborate?
 
Also, it's still in General Discussion, AFAIK it was never moved.
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Why should a game become engaging only after 10-20-30 hours of gameplay? You realise how ridiculous that is, right?
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Thread not in off topic, there were no WoW clones in 2000ish because WoW didn't exist until the end of 2004.
 
He's talking about the fact that it's got quests, equipment, monsters, skills, holy trinity in dungeons, that kind of thing. Young people seem to think any game with these attributes is a clone of WoW because apparently that's the only MMO they've ever played.
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You just described a lot of RPGs(not just MMORPGs) that came before WoW :P  Heck, you even just described D&D  :o
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			TBO...all pre wow mmo's was imo pretty lackluster with *cupcake* poor graphic and extremly complicated! Ty god for Blizzard that made mmo's casual friendly:)	
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TBO...all pre wow mmo's was imo pretty lackluster with *cupcake* poor graphic and extremly complicated! Ty god for Blizzard that made mmo's casual friendly:)
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			WoW was terrible and very anti casual when it came out too. About the only thing I can think of that they did well was instanced dungeons. And that wasn't even a novel concept; City of Heroes had that too.	
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Dungeon and Dragons was totally a WoW Clone!
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http://i.imgur.com/Tb85Kxm.jpg
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Thread not in off topic, there were no WoW clones in 2000ish because WoW didn't exist until the end of 2004.
 
He's talking about the fact that it's got quests, equipment, monsters, skills, holy trinity in dungeons, that kind of thing. Young people seem to think any game with these attributes is a clone of WoW because apparently that's the only MMO they've ever played.
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WoW was terrible and very anti casual when it came out too. About the only thing I can think of that they did well was instanced dungeons. And that wasn't even a novel concept; City of Heroes had that too.
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Woah, wait now.  WoW was very casual when it came out.  Considering it's contemporaneous with EVE Online and FFXI, WoW was a VERY casual option.  Maybe now, looking back, we'd cry about attunement and having to grind up a fire set for MC, but back then?  I played WoW and FFXI, and it's amazing how many chuckles the latter had talking about how easy the former was to get things done.
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Woah, wait now.  WoW was very casual when it came out.  Considering it's contemporaneous with EVE Online and FFXI, WoW was a VERY casual option.  Maybe now, looking back, we'd cry about attunement and having to grind up a fire set for MC, but back then?  I played WoW and FFXI, and it's amazing how many chuckles the latter had talking about how easy the former was to get things done.
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As a note, the "buff" role is already done to some degree in raids, and will only expand with the next drop. Currently, there are often members of the raid assigned to run debuff or buff abilities on their bar that lower their personal dps, but contribute to the raids overall dps. I know for a fact that among our spellslingers, the lowest dps is always required to run arcane missiles (for the magic damage debuff), and among warriors, usually one of us will run smackdown (its not as big a hit to our dps so it just kinda rotates)
 
In addition, from what I understand of the next patch (at least for warriors), there will be a full support build that does not include tanking. Essentially, for maximum damage one of the warriors will need to give up a very significant portion of damage to run and maintain the powerlink buff for the entire raid. I believe spellslingers are also gaining a huge buff to their aoe group buff as well. 
 
The devs have also stated that they want to make everything viable, so that going fully up the Support AMP tree is actually a good option for any class. 
 
Essentially, I suspect that over the next year we will see Wildstar raids evolve into a true 4 role system. Whether this comes down to smaller group content like dungeons remains to be seen. 
 
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It was definitely a more casual option at the time... but it definitely wouldn't be viewed as casual in today's space. If some of these ppl played FFXI, early EQ, or UO (insert other early MMO's here) their heads would explode.
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Oh yeah.
I can hear the screams already of those dying in SWG or FFXI and losing their precious farmed experience.
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I remember back in the days when i watched a friend if mine play..hmm it must have been ultima online or something (it was the game where you could build houses on top of spawning bosses). Ugly as F*** graphics and to me rather pointless....But he liked the RPG feel it had..then as you do now..you where building up your toon. He did not care about graphics..and he still does not care..last time I saw him he was playing the stupid ass F---* mafia ganster rpg mobile game on his phone..UGLY!!!! ( a few years ago)
The rest of us where playing games with the latest graphics available (non mmo's). I cant remember what it was but it must have been good, casue i still remember how ugly UO was even back then.
 
Then came the BF series....and we (others) played those for years...I think my UO friend still played UO a bit...
 
THEN!..WOW launced...ALL of my real life mates joined. ALL of us loved it! That says alot:) We joined the same guild and we played no other games for 3-4 years after wow launced. Wow was our gaming life..ALL OF IT!!!	
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