145377-review-love-the-game-lag-makes-it-unplayable-and-un-recommendable

== Content ==
			
This is a rant, a review and a summary of one new players experiences with Wildstar..
 
Character Creation: 
 
9/10 You could spend hours at this screen (I don't because I always end up looking at the arse-end of my toon anyway). Outstanding job, nothing to add here.
 
Initial Impression:
 
8/10. Artwork is different, but interesting. Standard 'fetch', 'kill', 'click' quests and whether you did or did not do the ship intro, you immediately got a feel for the world. Solid sense of humor, I honestly get a 'Firefly' vibe sometimes. 
 
Lore:
 
(I'm level 25 as of writing this). 5/10. I totally get the whole Dominion v Exile thing.I totally get the whole "makers" and "Eidolan" thing. And I clicked on EVERYTHING (More on this in a moment), so I get where this is heading (I think), the lore is just not as 'known' as say WoW or SW.
 
Questing:
 
3/10
 
The quest log is an impressive and ambitious effort. It also can be confusing and difficult to navigate. Quests change numbers and clicking sometimes produces no result even when the quest log settings are changed. Does 'Hide' mean the same thing as 'quit' or 'abandon'? Mis-clicking can cause a quest to disappear. As a new player to Wildstar (but not MMORPGs) when I see at the bottom of the quest log I have 16 quests, but only 3 are showing, I wonder what the heck is going on.
 
Quests, especially kill quests are hit and miss. No problem entering an area to kill X number of bad guys. But pick the wrong one and now you're fighting a Champion level guy with 4x the hit points of a regular MOB. Understand we don't want the game to be WoW_easy, but that got old especially when....
 
LAG.
 
I know this horse has been beaten to death, resurrected and beaten down again.  But dang. Standing in one spot for up to 8 seconds (I think my record was 10) is simply unacceptable in a 2015 MMORPG. 
 
 
Quest zones are, at this time, way too linear, as in there is only one for 22-26.(Reminds me of SWTOR). Perhaps that changed at higher levels. 
 
PvP:
 
8/10. Had fun. No issues at my level with Bots. (Maybe I got lucky). Definitely seemed to favor ranged classes. 
 
Expeditions:
 
9.5 / 10 Need waay more of these.
 
Tradeskills:  
 
3/10.
 
Much the way the quest log is ambitious and shows a TON of thought and effort, so do Tradeskills. Having said that, the crafting menu is not intuitive and quite cumbersome. I would make something that when the schematic was shown would show 'X' stats, but upon crafting I got 0.8X instead. No rhyme or reason and I couldn't jack up the power source. 
 
Gathering. Too limited. Requiring a particular gathering skill to mine /harvest is one thing. Requiring a character level is quite, well another. Makes no sense to tie the two together. I'm staring at level 3 mining nodes in the 16-22 level quest zone and I can't harvest even though I'm 60% of the way through level three mining because I'm only level 21.
 
Auction House
 
2/10
 
Waaay too many (un-needed) sort functions.  No way to filter (that I saw) items useable by ME, (at my level). Oh and the Carbine auction house addon kept crashing. 
 
Paths:
 
8/10 
 
Loved em. Was a Settler and a Soldier. 
 
Environment:
 
6.5/10  Mixed bag. Wildstar has, without a doubt, in my experience, THE most interactable environment I have ever seen in a MMOPRG. You can't go 10 steps without harvesting or mining or interacting somehow. Good yes, but at times felt like a click-game and not a MMO. (Way worse with settler than Soldier imo)  
 
LOVED Double Jump. LOVED the ability to get almost anywhere.
 
Overall: This game has POTENTIAL. A LOT. And I get their business model (Introduce players via F2P, get them to up to a subscriber, invest money in game.  Honestly they're in a bit of a catch-22), but right now, I won't subscribe and I wouldn't recommend subscribing until the lag is fixed. 
 
For a free game however, I will continually be checking back in to see what they've done.	
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			Pretty hardcore to let a temporary issue have such an effect on your review, and I have a hard time taking this seriously without further details.I've been on during prime time on my server most nights this week, and haven't run into the kind of lag you're talking about, or heard anyone else mention it. I think they still have to reboot some of the EU servers occasionally, but overall things are far better than they were at relaunch.So let's figure it out, where are you playing from and what server were you playing on, and what time of day?	
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its not really a rant i think you make some good points. obv your pov is subjective but i think i mostly agree with what you say. Wildstar just like many MMO do a bad job with leveling experience and shine at level 50. thats not different in wildstar. the story is "ok", questing is "ok", questlog is a total mess. expeditions are every ~5 levels so around 1.5 per zone. dungeons/adventures are every 5 levels. PvP is fun sometimes. There is content besides questing that gets you to 50 but its nothing special. housing is great. the free to play modell is great. the hud sucks? its completely changable in WS! even if you dont like using addons you can change pretty much everything.
get 50, get a guild, get attuned, get raiding! thats the strength of wildstar.
 
i dont like that you quit because the servers are laggy. for me they run smooth since the start, i only had lootlag 4-6 days when everyone had it and they decided to add more servers. 
Lag is a temporary problem in mmos, not a reason to quit if the game is fun and also free to play.
			
				
	Edited October 26, 2015 by furoflo	
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Pretty hardcore to let a temporary issue have such an effect on your review, and I have a hard time taking this seriously without further details.
 
I've been on during prime time on my server most nights this week, and haven't run into the kind of lag you're talking about, or heard anyone else mention it. I think they still have to reboot some of the EU servers occasionally, but overall things are far better than they were at relaunch.
 
So let's figure it out, where are you playing from and what server were you playing on, and what time of day?
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			I do so love a good "I made level 25 and haven't seen a quarter of the game" reviews!	
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			The story gets a lot better post level 25.	
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You know Lem, I'd follow you normally on this, but the lag has been a major issue for me as well lately.
And it's not just loot-lag, it's the connection as well.
Running pingplotter and the 30+ page thread on the bug forum has shown enough that they simply don't care.
So I can understand OP's frustration all too well.
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			The lag is making the game unplayable for me as well. It gets progressively worse as days go on. I'm a current signature player about to re-up my sub for a year in a week. I'm gonna yank that before it goes through if they can't get this resolved soon. It's beyond frustrating.  :(	
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The story gets a lot better post level 25.
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I freaking LOVE Malgrave. I love everything about Malgrave, so you're smoking crack there. I love the desert-motif. Malgrave has everything that makes Wildstar awesome, all in one zone. Lopp, Protostar, Marauders, Freebots, revenge, justice, a ghost town, Loftite jumping, giant scorpions, the Pell, a sunken ship, beach volleyball, a SPIDER-BOT. Jeez, what's to hate? It's a wonderful zone, with awesome stories and characters, start to finish.
 
After that, though, you obviously put the pipe down. :lol:  Everything after Malgrave is purple, slimy, eyebally crap-zones.
 
I *suppose* the point of the design was to drive home the vast importance of the Strain on the future (and past) of Nexus. Sadly, it's never worked for me. I had no interest in the Strain or the Entity. Drusera is awesome enough, and the Drusera instances are all pretty cool ... but holy hells, THREE FULL ZONES of that crap? Ugh.
			
				
	Edited October 26, 2015 by Tex Arcana	
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The story gets a lot better post level 25.
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I do so love a good "I made level 25 and haven't seen a quarter of the game" reviews!
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No it doesnt really.
 
In Malgrave and Grimvault and at the Phage Cannon area It gets even worse, and I have one of the best Nvidia cards on the market with 100% upgraded drivers.
 
And one of my other PCs it also lags in Whitevale too at NON peak times.
 
Im still not subbing untill these things area fixes, its just not acceptable for me sorry. 
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			Bugs and lags killing this game :(	
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Unfortunately - at least in the EU and where I am currently trying to quest (Whitevale) the input lag is making the game unplayable
 
Hit a button and then wait for several seconds before anything happens.
 
The zone chat is full of people just deciding to give up and try something else.
 
Not sure what the problem is but its been the same for at least 2 weeks	
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No it doesnt really.
 
In Malgrave and Grimvault and at the Phage Cannon area It gets even worse, and I have one of the best Nvidia cards on the market with 100% upgraded drivers.
 
And one of my other PCs it also lags in Whitevale too at NON peak times.
 
Im still not subbing untill these things area fixes, its just not acceptable for me sorry. 
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No it doesnt really.
 
In Malgrave and Grimvault and at the Phage Cannon area It gets even worse, and I have one of the best Nvidia cards on the market with 100% upgraded drivers.
 
And one of my other PCs it also lags in Whitevale too at NON peak times.
 
Im still not subbing untill these things area fixes, its just not acceptable for me sorry. 
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The game itself is great and has potential.  The server lag is deplorable and holding back that potential.  Either they have a very elusive bug(s) in the architecture or the architecture itself cannot accommodate massive concurrent players.  Everyday I play the game I'm getting more convinced that the game cannot handle massive player concurrency but I continue to log in hoping that is not the case.
 
I disagree with the OP on the lore and questing.  I think they're both tip-top.  Also, you didn't mention housing which is pretty awesome.	
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The lag was off and on this morning and now it's pretty much constant for the past 20-30 minutes or so. Getting close to just calling it a day and going to play something else, since it's reaching the point of unplayability with how often the spikes are coming and how bad they are.
 
Inb4 someone says they only see lag at prime time. It's 4pm EST right now and everyone in the zone I'm in is being affected.
			
				
	Edited October 26, 2015 by AmbivalentCat	
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			BRO what about the /10 for Dungeons?? did you do them? & the raids. oh wait you didn't get that far.. but at least put the Dungeons in there? 	
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Sure the story is average of its type, but it really isn't much more than average.  
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I also called the cliché "revelation" at the lightspire way back during the first quest where you first encounter the strain. GG 
 
"I was too frightened to tell you..." "It's cool Drusera, I figured that out like, 35 levels ago"
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I'm wondering how anyone raids when the game just decides to not accept input for five seconds every couple minutes.
 
My ping will be 30 and yet I will be standing in front of a champion mob while it, and I, do absolutely nothing for five seconds, then my health will drop by ten thousand and it will be where it was before the lag started, laughing in my face.  I love this game, but I won't recommend it to anyone I know because the lag (especially on weekends) is so ridiculous it's not fun.  I want to bring my friends to the game, because it has so much potential (as long as you stay away from crafting), but the lag is atrocious and kills my resolve to invite them.
 
It's not graphical.  It's not my connection.  It's the server, just sitting there and forgetting how to process the game for some reason, and it's easily fifty times worse on the weekends.
			
				
	Edited October 26, 2015 by CounteredBySkill	
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			Raided 4 times this week, zero problems, zero lag ever this week. This is on jabbit EU. 	
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Raided 4 times this week, zero problems, zero lag ever this week. This is on jabbit EU. 
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I freaking LOVE Malgrave. I love everything about Malgrave, so you're smoking crack there. I love the desert-motif. Malgrave has everything that makes Wildstar awesome, all in one zone. Lopp, Protostar, Marauders, Freebots, revenge, justice, a ghost town, Loftite jumping, giant scorpions, the Pell, a sunken ship, beach volleyball, a SPIDER-BOT. Jeez, what's to hate? It's a wonderful zone, with awesome stories and characters, start to finish.
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Pretty hardcore to let a temporary issue have such an effect on your review
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			Lag is the single worst issue for me, if I cant tell if i am alive or dead on and off for the better part of 2 hours why bother coming back?	
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			I have absolutely loved my time with this game, but the lag is a huge issue. I made the mistake of moving from Entity-2 to Entity-1. Entity 2 worked great but I wanted to be around more players and I transferred. Getting around Illium is a nightmare during primetime, some of the world zones lag like crazy as well. I tried my hand at the hoverboard racing last night, and to put it lightly, the lag made it a complete disaster. I really hope the devs get the lag and pvp bot problems under control because this game has alot to offer. It is a rare occurence that I start a ftp game, sub to it and buy several mounts within the first week. I want to see this game succeed.	
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I have had major lag issues lately, specifically after the Shade's Eve event and zPrix started.  Since zPrix closed, I have still had combat lag and other types, as well.  I have also seen a lot of other people rubber-banding.
 
Since the title referenced the lag specifically, that is the only point to which I'll reply here.	
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It's putting new players off. People are complaining about massive ping compared to other games, huge lag spikes and optimisation issues in general.
 
One guy already quit today and /w me saying he loves the game, but he can't play it because his computer can't run it properly. He can run any other game fine, just not this one. We've tried all sorts of fixes just none of them work.
 
Even I am getting annoyed with the lag. It's so distracting and annoying to have my character out of my control for 30+ seconds, or barely under my control. 	
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			Am i like the only one here who has smooth experience playing? I have like 0 loot lag 0 action lag... And in game i don't see that people are complaining o.O (luminai 1 here)	
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I get just over 100ms on my housing plot and it jumps to over 220ish when I zone into the world. Trace-routes show everything fine until it arrives at Carbine. That's annoying on its own, but the lag is what's killing the game for me.
 
My Signature service is paid up until Feb of next year. Not sure I'll stick around if it stays like this though.	
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			I liked the review. It's subjective and from the point of view of a newcomer. I think it's great.	
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I don't get lag in instances either. Everywhere else on Jabbit I do though.
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I do so love a good "I made level 25 and haven't seen a quarter of the game" reviews!
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I started a similar topic https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/144470-the-new-player-experience-a-fun-buggy-mess/
 
The white knights in this thread that seem to be annoyied at the fact that such reviews come from level 25's don't seem to understand that if the game leaves a bad impression, trough server lag, imput lag and even surprisingly video lag, apart from the design aspects, no one in their right mind will put up with it just to see if "end game dungeons" are good or not.
 
First impresions matter. For example, I was qued for the moba type adventure, and was called into one that was already half way done, and from which 3 other people already quit, and I had no clue what the hell I should be doing since the intro was auto skipped, was swarmed by 5 npc's that behaved like enemy players, but had three times the hp and regened 4k hp second and like 200 suicidal moogles, fortunately I had roughly 22% life steal with the build I joined so I lasted a long time. Eventually dying, my first death in PVE. at like level 30ish.
 
The most disgustingly bad experience. Which was possible because the queue didn't take into consideration that I had never been to the adventure before , so the tutorial (i.e. starting from the beginning) was basically mandatory, and that the queue system didn't ask me if i WANTED to join an adventure already in progress.
 
My first impression of THAT situation was that the devs were literally insane.
			
				
	Edited October 27, 2015 by MegaDeth666	
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Well apparently the guy has no ambition at this time to continue past 25  because of his experience. I think getting to 25 or 30 is a pretty good amount to judge whether you will continue or not but i DO think it gets a bit better after 25.
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I think it's worrying that the lag has put someone off playing past lvl 25 regardless of strong reviews of the rest of the game.
 
I found the review fair and interesting, I'm just sad to see someone else go.	
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I think it's worrying that the lag has put someone off playing past lvl 25 regardless of strong reviews of the rest of the game.
 
I found the review fair and interesting, I'm just sad to see someone else go.
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Yeah same here oli, I feel it's worst in illium though at the moment.
 
Doing the hoverboard races sometimes I got the lag too, and that was annoying as hell xD	
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			Thayd, Luminai: EU 4am, very few people online: 15fps.	
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Thayd, Luminai: EU 4am, very few people online: 15fps.
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No it doesn't, but latency spikes I've noticed it does severely affect FPS.
 
My fps goes from 60+ down to 30 for 5 minutes as my latency goes upwards, then stutters around 1-4fps for 30 seconds whilst my latency sky rockets.
 
Then it all catches up again and is fine for 5mins before it starts doing it again :/
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No it doesn't, but latency spikes I've noticed it does severely affect FPS.
 
My fps goes from 60+ down to 30 for 5 minutes as my latency goes upwards, then stutters around 1-4fps for 30 seconds whilst my latency sky rockets.
 
Then it all catches up again and is fine for 5mins before it starts doing it again :/	
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Carbine, I realize you may not be able to share all the details, but an update of some kind would be awesome. The command input lag and general choppiness at all graphics settings tells me there is probably still server lag on the one hand, and client issues on the other. Is anything in the works to address these?
 
Client issues will take time, but I'm hoping that if there are server issues, it's due to load and we might see MOAR POWER! as revenue increases...?	
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Hey all,
 
I'm sorry but we don't have a more clear answer we can share yet. For almost every game update since our free-to-play launch we've implemented tweaks to increase server performance and decrease lag. We are continuing to add improvements until the problem is fully addressed. In the meantime we do still greatly appreciate your patience. Please keep notifying us of your concerns so that we can get them into the pipeline to fix.
 
Thank you,
 
-Team WildStar	
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Hey all,
 
I'm sorry but we don't have a more clear answer we can share yet. For almost every game update since our free-to-play launch we've implemented tweaks to increase server performance and decrease lag. We are continuing to add improvements until the problem is fully addressed. In the meantime we do still greatly appreciate your patience. Please keep notifying us of your concerns so that we can get them into the pipeline to fix.
 
Thank you,
 
-Team WildStar
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			 I'm not sure if its lag or not.. but my characters for the last couple of days have been stuck in loading screens and unplayable for large chunks of time because their stuck in server purgatory when changing zones. I feel like im under house arrest now because I dread zoning out of my plot in fear it maybe hours before i can play on her again to continue building.. which sucks because this problem has been around for quite a while now for some players..	
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Its input lag that is the problem - not framerate or any kind of client graphics issues.
 
Whitevale is completely unplayable at the moment on Jabbit EU. You press an ability and then intermittently it takes up to 5 seconds or more for an ability to fire - been like this since I came back to game. It was never this bad when the game launched originally.
 
These technical issues really be the number one priority for the devs at the moment - four weeks into re-launch and it actually seems to be getting worse.
 
No one will put up with this for long - all those potential customers just walking away - not because the game is no good - but because you cant play it properly!!	
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Suggest posters should indicate their server and char level. I can say that for Entity 2 and up to level 15 so far I have only seen lag a couple of times and only for a few seconds. Maybe it is server specific? Size of player population simultaneously logged in? Are the servers dedicated to Wildstar or shared infrastructure? Is the server OS at the same level on all servers? Type of SAN the same for all servers? SAN harddrive speed the same? RAID configuratin the same? Number of fibrechannels the same? NICs the same? Amount of RAM the same? Number of assigned physical and virtual cores the same? Game server software running in same physical frames or different frames? Version of database software the same? Loadbalancer configuration the same? Possible incorrect network configuration (within the datacenter) for different paths between datacenter input/output point and the servers? Problems with datacenter firewall configuration in front of different servers?
 
Because depending upon the IT infrastructure very different performance results may occur which have nothing to do with the game server software itself. Considering the different results affecting users it is very possibly the infrastructure and not the game server software.	
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That behaviour I have not noticed yet.
But would indicate the client or your pc has trouble processing the incoming data, or is simply not receiving any incoming data.
Interest tid-bit of information to analyse the whole problem.
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I so love this game, but i guess we have every reason to doubt Carbine's abilities at this point.
 
I'm sure they do the best they can, but let's be honest: it is just not enough. Just like it wasn't when the game got released. Neither in terms of quantity nor quality, as barely anything here gets ever solved with a single strike or solved in a reasonable timeframe. At least not from the perspective of a returning player who already gave up on the game once, but for a reason wants to give it a 2nd chance.
 
I have never seen a company so resistant to learn from other studio's mistakes like Carbine was in the 7-9(?) years of development of Wildstar -and to an extend they still are after all that has happened since release. As many predicted, they missed the market by say 10 years and in 2014 released a game that was missing systems, mechanics and functions (many of them QoL) other games had in 2004 and that are considered to be lowest standard baseline stuff. Classes were a mess, content wasn't there. While people at Carbine were celebrating themselves, acting like wannabe rockstars with an attitude, screaming on youtube and padding themselves on the back about how "hardcore" this is and that everyone else was just cupcake.
One year later, about 28 servers down and with just one server left alive -the game went down at lightspeed. But then, without any advertising, many people didn't even know this game existed in first place. "Wildwhat? never heard of.."
Those rockstars were then the first to leave the sinking ship and i am still glad that they did. The company really was in need of a facelift and change of image.
 
And here we are again. A second chance -but as well again a second chance to mess up and Carbine again seems to not be wasting it.
If you manage to get into the game at all you are being greeted by bugs left and right, even in trivial things like UI windows (after their 2nd try to produce a working UI at all) are messy.
 
For weeks not a SINGLE day without an incident with the launcher, the network connection, the login process, being stuck in loading screens, patches that need patches etc. You name it, it will happen or has happened and then some.
Ok, since we can't play atm, let's watch the official stream instead...ohhh!!...did that Carbine guy just insult and offended the playerbase!? Next broadcast...ohh!!...he did it again!
 
But hey, at least we can login by now -said the bots, flodded the game and even run their own exclusive BGs now. Nobody there at Carbine to check in at least once each day and spend a minute to delete those accounts? I assume whoever operates on the accounts-level is too busy restoring all the characters that are constantly lost or not being displayed when people log into the char-selection.
 
I'm afraid this game will take the same path it went the first time, which is down. It'll line up behind the many other titles of "could have beens if only the company behind it had a clue..." 
Now, you can come with your "it's not that easy you know..", "it doesn't work that way" or "why not make you own mmorpg then?" -in the end it won't matter to the many players who gave this game a second chance only to find out that Carbine obviously needs many many more chances to even get the smallest thing right.
I like the cheering and everyone's patience and so far i'm rather patient myself -because there isn't much more we can do anyway and on the other hand i also decided to not pay for anything yet.
Let's hope that NCSoft will be just as patient while everyone else is patient and hence still nobody is spending money on the game.
 
Pardon my bad french, i'm german.
 
*edited for typos, still left you some.
			
				
	Edited October 27, 2015 by f234r2gh	
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			I've been warning my friends to stay away from the game due to the lag. Kind of makes me sad.	
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			I've been enjoying everything I've seen of the game so far and was really enjoying being back and exploring the world. However the lag issues (Entity 1) in Auroria and Whitevale are a big negative. I'm trying to do quests and enjoy the game but it's very frustrating. If it keeps up I will probably shelve the game for a while and check back later at some point. Its disappointing. 	
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			Very serious when a game runs off people who love it.	
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Just to update everyone, we did a server restart last night to help address the immediate lag concerns. We also are working on some other fixes and will update you when we know more.
 
Thank you for your continued patience!
 
-Team WildSta	
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Just to update everyone, we did a server restart last night to help address the immediate lag concerns. We also are working on some other fixes and will update you when we know more.
 
Thank you for your continued patience!
 
-Team WildSta
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Yeah. I absolutely adore this game and I have a lot of respect for Carbine as devs with passion. I love the style of the game, the story, gameplay, etc. It's amazing!
 
However...
 
I worry. I worry for the future of the game. I am being very patient and hope things work out, but not everyone is like that. And people that were on the fence whether this is the game for them or not just run away due to Lag and Bugs. I even have friends that came for F2P, really liked the game but left due to all these reasons still affecting the game badly one month later.
And yes, I get it. This is not easy, and Carbine are working their arse off to fix. But I have to worry. I want the game to be very successful but I know how fickle most players are and I know most won't wait for so long on the hope the issues are fixed. I also know how ruthless NCSoft is if a game under performs. And this relates to another point, the money investment: would most people drops loads of money on a game with a future so uncertain? Money that you would practically lose?
And I really really DO NOT want Wildstar to go down that hole. I hope years from now to be chatting with people in game about the time after F2P launch with all the lag and bugs as the game enjoys a very healthy player base.
 
But only the future will tell I guess. Crossing my fingers and best of luck Carbine.	
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 I'm not sure if its lag or not.. but my characters for the last couple of days have been stuck in loading screens and unplayable for large chunks of time because their stuck in server purgatory when changing zones. I feel like im under house arrest now because I dread zoning out of my plot in fear it maybe hours before i can play on her again to continue building.. which sucks because this problem has been around for quite a while now for some players..
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Would it be a better idea to start a new thread so we can ONLY report the problems with the relevant information? Something like:
 
Local Time:
Server:
Character level:
Class:
Zone:
Quest / Area:
Internet Provider:
CPU:
RAM:
GFX Card:
 
That way if we get a string of these, it may be easier to isolate the issue and find a common denominator.
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Would it be a better idea to start a new thread so we can ONLY report the problems with the relevant information? Something like:
 
Local Time:
Server:
Character level:
Class:
Zone:
Quest / Area:
Internet Provider:
CPU:
RAM:
GFX Card:
 
That way if we get a string of these, it may be easier to isolate the issue and find a common denominator.
			
				
	Edited October 28, 2015 by Clansman2014	
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That's a great idea, actually. Would be far more useful than whats happening right now.
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Just to update everyone, we did a server restart last night to help address the immediate lag concerns. We also are working on some other fixes and will update you when we know more.
 
Thank you for your continued patience!
 
-Team WildSta
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Here's the problem with server restarts to fix an issue that really, honestly shouldn't even be an issue at this point in the game's development cycle.
 
Group Content.
 
You've deliberately created group content that can take 2 or so hours to complete.
Now, I understand why you did it, some players love it, especially those who profess to like their games "harcore" - your initial target demographic.
 
The lag is bad enough; but if I'm 90mins in to a 2 hour run and you guys drop a 10 minute warning for a server restart you need to understand one major fact: I will not give a flying cupcake that you are trying to fix the lag.
 
And the reason I won't give a flying cupcake is because... ...the lag should have been fixed a year or more ago.
 
So what you have done is compound my low to mid level dissatisfaction with the lag with BOILING RAGE OF ARMAGEDDON that you've just wasted 90 mins of my playing time - in and end-game structure you have deliberately designed to be grindy and time intensive.
 
I have no idea who you have in charge of Customer Relations - but if they are not on the Technical Guy's backs 24/7 over this they are not doing their job properly - and frankly, that would you mean you have two teams not doing their jobs properly.
 
Like you guys I work in the entertainment industry - live entertainment.  In live entertainment a "new product" (Brand New Show/Concert) has to be right - all the time, every time; within 2 seconds of going live it needs to be as near to perfect that the audience will never know the difference.
 
With a "relaunch" - subsequent performances of a show - it needs to be so perfect that the audience wouldn't spot a problem even if they were deliberately looking for it, and had been told what it was.
 
 
For far, far, far too long the video game industry has been managed with a "that'll do" attitude: an attitude that it doesn't matter if the product is "right" because it can always be fixed later on down the line with a patch / update etc.
 
Wildstar demonstrates that this manifestly isn't the case.  Server stability issues that have plagued the game since day one have not so far been fixed and we are now 18 months out from initial live launch.
 
 
As I said, i work in live entertainment,  But I know almost nothing about the technical side of what is involved in setting a light and sound environment for a show.  But when such a technical issue pops up, and threatens an event I do know what I have to do.
 
Get someone in who can fix it ASAP.
 
If after 18 months your tech team still has no clue how to fix the server stability issues other than a forlorn hope server restart it is long past time that Carbine bit that bullet and got someone in who knows what they are doing.
 
Forget you store promotions, forget new store content, right now your entire team (and I mean ENTIRE team) should be focussed on only one thing - server stability.
 
Server stability is now such an issue that it is a "show stopper".
 
More "we're working on it, but we don't have an answer" excuses just won't cut it anymore.
 
All The Best
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Hi RedneckRPGer,
 
We completely understand your frustration and are very sorry this is happening. The restart last night happened by an internal vote in response to forum threads just like this calling out that the lag was indeed a problem and making the game not enjoyable for those it effected. It was the most immediate fix we could do in a short time-frame. We apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused. We ideally like to give way more notice of downtimes but thought that if we could help the lag with a quick restart, it was better than waiting another several hours while players were having a difficult time playing the game at all. This of course was just a short term solution and we are working on a longer-term fix. This however, has to be thoroughly tested before we can release it to the public because without proper testing could actually make things worse. Also, just for your information, the store promotions and marketplace stuff is worked on by a completely different team who is not capable of working on complex server stability issues. 
 
So to re-iterate, we are very, very sorry that the lag is making the game not ideal for some of you. We are doing everything in our power to fix it. We also apologize for the fact that this has not come as soon as either you or we would have liked but we want to do it right instead of rushing something out that might make things worse.
 
Thank you again for your continued patience,
 
-Team WildStar
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Well said RedneckRPGer and Ejester.
 
I'm one that came back and was fully prepared to give them a subscription, but I decided to wait until lag was fixed. And then I waited, and waited, and nothing changed for my play experience. I hear that they're on it, but this also happened back at original launch in June 2014, and now I'm wondering if the lag was ever actually fixed, or if it just went away when the population dove off the cliff.
 
As it stands, I not only don't want to login and get frustrated anymore, and haven't in two days, but I refuse to pay a penny toward the game post F2P at this stage.
 
I'm keeping an eye on the forums for now to see if the lag is ever fixed, but I've returned to another MMO. And I say for now, because no player is going to wait endlessly and keep checking. Sooner or later, they'll see the same issues being talked about ad nauseam, shrug, and move on completely.
			
				
	Edited October 29, 2015 by Vanguardian	
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{| class="blockquote"
Well said RedneckRPGer and Ejester.
 
I'm one that came back and was fully prepared to give them a subscription, but I decided to wait until lag was fixed. And then I waited, and waited, and nothing changed for my play experience. I hear that they're on it, but this also happened back at original launch in June 2014, and now I'm wondering if the lag was ever actually fixed, or if it just went away when the population dove off the cliff.
 
As it stands, I not only don't want to login and get frustrated anymore, and haven't in two days, but I refuse to pay a penny toward the game post F2P at this stage.
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I am optimistic, but hesitant. Not hesitantly optimistic, just optimistic and hesitant.
 
I've had nothing but good interactions with the WildStar staff so far, including their (very prompt) Support staff (who I actually wanted to make a Feedback thread praising, but since I saw no black-and-white Feedback forum, I wasn't sure where I'd post such a thing) who have been attentive to any bugs or issues I've reported thus far. I've seen the staff in the forums, being way more open and communicative with players than I've seen in- well- any game forum I've ever been a part of. I love the game itself, from the designs to the gameplay to the free model (which I'll admit is very generous) to the Housing that I've spent hours doing so little and having so much fun in. And especially the community, which is chock-full of so many nice people. Like, really nice, really helpful, generous people. It's surprising.
 
So I'm really optimistic about the future of the game and how much I'll continue to enjoy it as time goes on.
 
But I'm also hesitant to spend money on it until I know I can actually, factually continue playing the game. I'll admit my computer isn't top-of-the-line (and I don't mind turning down my settings, or the game getting a little choppy in populated cities, that's fine), but I was really turned off by the fact that I was stuck in a Loading Screen not once, but twice, because my computer used a certain brand of video card. That's never happened to me before, in any game. And I was made to believe that the problem was only persistent with the holiday portal when, in fact, it was a recurring problem that I would have to take purposeful measures (costing me in-game currency) to avoid.
 
And, on top of that, the lag- and I'm a very patient person, so I don't mind the occasional hang between attacks- but the lag has affected me, and so many others, persistently while questing. Or farming. Thirty seconds to get through a Titanium node. I like WildStar's crafting system, and I want to craft- I want to level up, I want to build things, I want to do, do, do so much, but when the quest is "kill 20 enemies" and each of those enemies takes minutes to fight because of lag, or when crafting takes 20 Titanium and Titanium drops from ore once every 10 seconds, then it really sucks the "want to do" out of me, ya' know?
 
So yeah, I really feel like these problems will be fixed. And I say that, in spite of seeing so many people here, in the forums, saying "it's been like this." Because yeah, I have faith, even if it's filtered through rose-colored glasses, because the staff is nice and talks to us through smiles and I've already had so much fun with the game that I want so badly to continue having fun with it.
 
But despite how much I want to take out my wallet and say "yes, I really want to splurge on this game so one day I can have that friggin' awesome Osun house oh my god", I'm restraining myself until some of the major issues get fixed.
 
You guys charmed my heart, you just have to convince my brain.	
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The last few posts really summed it up very well. I am also one of those, who played back at the start till the servers ran out of people to play with.
I really really like the changes that have been made, i am so much more enjoying the game atm compared to the version i was used to. Luckily i am mainly playing dungeons atm, so i am not that much affected by lags. That said, its really saddening to see the same issues that drove away so many ppl in the beginning are STILL in place. The super bad accessibility for new players, the non existant optimising, horrible ui, really bad crafting system, annoying rune fragment grind (I have 4 ledgendary items in my inventory that i just cant use because i cant afford the runes. I have to complete 220 dungeon runs or spend way over 100p to get it done. Who decides thats fine for the average joe?!) and last but not least the poor state of the servers in general.
 
Other than TheResult i have spend a good 100 bucks at the first month, since i really had fun with the game and i am enjoying it. The art department is doing an awesome job, the gameplay is the best ever, the dungeons and raids are top of the genre but unfortunately the tech side of things, some game design decisions and the server architecture is lacking so bad that it really gives me that "feeling" again i had last year. It really seems, as all the rumors that came up last year (glassdoor reviews and so forth) are actually true. The actual devs seem to know what they are doing very well but the decision makers seem to be way off.
 
I really do hope that they earned enough in the first month to get some extra staff in to get the technical side fixed and also make some changes in their game design departement. The reason why ppl get so upset in the forums is because we love this freaking game and we would hate to see it going down the drain AGAIN because of the same reasons it happened in the first place.
I enjoy it so much atm, that i can easily live with all its flaws atm. Heck i am even fine with doing over 200 dungeon runs to get my gear done. But that dosnt apply to the rest of the players, especially the new ones.
 
So, dear devs (Level Designers, Coders, 3d Artists...). I am pretty sure you know best whats wrong at the very moment, get together and make your voice heard. Please try to make some changes at this company, since something is completly running wrong within it.	
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