114668-suggestions-for-ncsoft-and-account-level-operations

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So, I know I said I wouldn't write another of these until Drop 3 when we know what's coming, what the criticism of content is at that point, and good solutions to move forward.  And at the character level, that's very true.  However, with megaservers on the horizon and drop 3 fixing a lot of the problems the community has been articulating, I started thinking about problems that can be fixed.  And, honestly, I'm starting to think about NCSoft.
 
As a disclaimer, I'm not sure I've been very fair to NCSoft.  Their customer service has a bad reputation, but who doesn't?  And Carbine seems to have their own CS on the case as well.  They've answered questions directly on these forums, which isn't something I saw on many other games.  They had issues right after launch, but then who wouldn't?  My tickets always got answered quickly.  I've never had an account level problem in the game; never had my sub disappear or found things charged to me I didn't expect to be there.  This is also my first game with NCSoft.  So why have I been so unfair to them?
 
Well, part of it is their reputation.  I never played City of Heroes, but they have a LONG reputation from their handling of that game.  Part of it is that they handle the less sexy stuff we take for granted when it works but hate when it doesn't.  They're also corporate overlords that never post here, so we never really know what's going on in the minds of NCSoft.  Most of all, though, NCSoft are disliked because they're the ones with the axe.  They can end our game anytime they want and we automatically assume their intentions.  They're the executioner and we don't see them as even capable of doing good.
 
Maybe that's not fair, in retrospect.  However, if it wasn't for NCSoft acting as a sort of guillotine over Wildstar, I'd have already put in a yearlong sub.  With that in mind, I tried stepping up from the game level and wondering what NCSoft could do to improve their reputation, that of Wildstar and Carbine, to give us confidence, and, best of all, to give them ways to make more money.  Hence, a list of a couple loose suggestions that I've given just about zero thought to, and hopefully anyone can provide feedback themselves.  Some of these are the province of NCSoft alone, some the province of NCSoft and Carbine in conjuction, but they are outside the current gameplay scope I feel I should give time to see where it ends up.
 
 
Confidence
 
That's the major thing NCSoft needs to worry about.  Every single long-term plan for a player in this game has the caveat that we don't know what NCSoft will do.  It's why I'm still playing month-to-month instead of dropping a yearlong sub that I want to drop.  The problem isn't that I don't think Wildstar is making money, or even enough money.  I just don't know what enough money is, and I worry that NCSoft may set the bar too high too fast.  Wildstar is a brand new IP with a LOT of upside.
 
So, first, I'd like to make NCSoft a deal.  If they post anywhere that from now until October 3rd 2015, the only reason they'd consider shutting down Wildstar or sending it F2P is if it was costing more money than it was generating and not looking to generate more (which would be something I couldn't blame them for killing it over), I would follow that with a snipped photo of my yearlong sub.  Period.  If NCSoft is willing to back this game to that level, I'm more than willing to back them.  I also think that would go a long way to calming fears of players in this game who are afraid the game is going to go F2P and make their sub meaningless or kill the game entirely.  The problem really is that, while in other games the developer is the publisher and they can reassure their public directly, Carbine's not in that position.
 
NCSoft is, and knowing they'll give the game at least a year as long as it's making them money back (even if that's sort of a good idea on their part anyway), would relieve a lot of pressure on us gamers and give us the impression that Carbine isn't developing for NCSoft, but for our subs.
 
 
Account Level Changes
 
This will involve Carbine to an extent, but my impression is that this is much more an NCSoft-level thing.
 
A lot of cosmetics and customization should not be bought with real money (I suppose as long as you don't count the deluxe game box items).  Those are the province of gameplay grinding and working to a goal.  However, some things we are willing to pay for since they aren't just minor customization tweaks.  A few things NCSoft might want to consider adding to their account management (which already includes a character rename) might include race change, faction change, guild rename, guild faction change, and other options.  I might also say that these options should also be purchasable with CREDD.  That way, people who grind up a CREDD can pay for these things with someone else's money as a trade for game currency, just like the monthly subscription.
 
I'd also say that it might be a good idea to build in a way to buy a CREDD and send it to an inactive account.  That would be a very good option to have come Drop 3 when a lot of people might want to invite their friends back to try the game, but their friends are out of CREDD and can't buy more without resubbing (which I'm assuming for the example they won't do).  Odd as that sounds, that might be more common than you'd think.
 
 
Bundle Game Packages
 
Unlike other games I've played (with the exception of CCP and their Dust514 game), Wildstar is part of a family of games.  As it stands, I have no interest in playing these other games, especially since some are F2P.  I don't really like F2P games because I'm much happier having my monetary investment stretched out over time for incoming gameplay than frontloaded and hammered into me in big chunks for game boxes.  However, I wanted to bring up a payment model that NCSoft might find useful for their other games, related to Wildstar's new 3-month drop proposal.
 
Let's take Guild Wars 2 as an example.  GW2 makes its money off of selling game boxes.  Therefore, the content development team is incentivized to do that, sell boxes.  They don't necessarily need people to stay and play the game.  The content seems designed that way, to reflect that once the player is in, he simply needs to get as many friends to buy in as possible for NCSoft's purposes.
 
What if there was another way, and a way to give NCSoft better value for their development?  A few points I've come upon:
 
-Currently, Carbine is saying they will release quarterly-ish updates.  That is being called a long time by the community.  For that, we are paying 15 dollars a month.  It is probably worth it, but it does leave 90 days of time with no new major content, content that might get eaten up in a few weeks in some cases.
 
-It is thought that the fragmented community all thinks they are the most important players in the game (casuals v hardcores, RPers v content players, PVE v PVP, etc).  Carbine will sometimes release patches that don't target all of these people, meaning we're talking about 180 days of no new content for some especially narrow-minded players.
 
-NCSoft is currently listing Aion, Guild Wars, and Lineage as game franchises they have, franchises that have different development cycles and that sound interesting, but aren't games I would play because I'm not going to buy into or pay into another game that isn't updated regularly with new content.
 
But what if NCSoft came out and said, yes, you can sub into or buy into all these games individually.  However, you could also pay 25$ (or whatever reduced rate) a month as a subscription and be continually updated on any two games you have bought the initial box price for.  In fact, why not say that, for 35$, you could access them all, as long as you've bought the initial game box, and all future expansions you will be constantly updated on (and you may be given free access to cash shops, etc, I'm not entirely sure how those games work).  Hell, why not even say you'll bring back CoH and CoV under this plan?
 
Now, I won't drop Wildstar and play Aion; I certainly won't play a F2P game especially if they're just pounding me with expansions to buy and cash shop items to need.  But would I buy its initial game box and pay an extra 10 dollars a month on top of it to give it a shot if I got access to all the cash-gated content?  I might just.  I certainly might with Lineage.  I might do the same with any game NCSoft comes up with.  And that might give them the kind of regular currency flow they need to do six months or three months content updates with these games.
 
The beauty of that system is that, where once you have a bunch of disparate games floating on their own, you have games that can fill each others' gaps.  What if someone is bored of Wildstar PVP, a new BG isn't coming soon, and they're out of content.  If they're subbed to both that and Aion at a reduced rate, and both are giving out three-month content updates the way Wildstar is (or even six month updates for the Aion team), they can hop back and forth, reducing their boredom.  Their gametime is, of course, still the same, but they're supporting both games with their money.
 
In fact, why not go all out and give everyone the chance to play all the games as subscribers for a flat fee, whatever it might be (hopefully in the 15-30 dollar range, tending low)?  Never buy an expansion again, and all the money gets pooled and doled out.  If that cash figure is low enough, you wouldn't need every game desperately holding onto buyers and you'd have a willing population that would play all of your games, inviting all of their friends, and cross-pollinating.  You could release more frequent updates plugging holes in everyone else's development schedules.  You could even provide account-level communication so people could speak to each other across games.
 
I'm not sure what "too expensive" is, but right now, you're only making 15$ a month per sub and probably less for box games.  You might make more this way and also make game fatigue less of an issue.  It's worth bringing up at a meeting, anyway.
 
 
The Ethical Cash Shop for Wildstar
 
We had a discussion a while back about an "ethical" cash shop, or what we'd deem acceptable as a subscribing population.  We want to be able to get everything in the game, but at the same time, we want rewards for subbing every month.  And NCSoft would like to sell items.
 
That gave me an idea.  Take past months' reward items and make a cash shop out of those and even add to it, but always be giving those items to the subscribers.
 
That way, if you keep your account active, you will get everything just as now.  But for players joining in next year?  What if they want that beret?  Or the Squirg helmet?  They could buy that for some nominal fee, NCSoft could make a little money on the side, and the active account holders wouldn't need to be angry about a "cash shop making them buy things they want."  Hell, you can increase that flow, give us several items a month.  Subscribers would be happy with the free stuff, and you'd have a bevy of things in a cash shop for people that missed them.
 
Apply that to the above idea, even.  Subscribers get all the new stuff put on the cash shops for being subscribers when it was released.  It keeps people paying for subs happy because they're always getting rewards and nothing is "out of reach" if they are around for it.  You might attract more subscribers even in games that didn't have those subscriber limits before.
 
That's all I've got right now for NCSoft.  I just figured maybe they could improve the mood in their games a bit and I could make some suggestions on how to make them more money and to maybe get more mileage out of their library of online titles.  It might relieve a little pressure, get people to respect the NCSoft brand name, and increase their revenue if they considered some of these options.  Feel free to chime in.	
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			I'm on board with the Account Level Changes and the Ethical Cash Shop as outlined.  A statement from NCSoft regarding their confidence would allow me to feel more confident, the only thing I'm not interested in is the bundled game packages.  I have no interest in Aion, Lineage or GW2 (played it for a while, got bored and tired of the lack of meaningful content).  Doesn't mena it's not a good ida, just means I'm not interested.	
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As far as paying an extra $10 a month for access to their whole lineup of games...I'm rather indifferent. It's not something I'd pay for, but I don't see why the option would be bad.
 
I'll try to keep the rest of this as calm as possible, but...
 
...the moment a cash shop is announced, I will immediately unsub. At this point, I don't care how it's implemented.
 
Your outline would certainly be a noble start, but no company in any game I have ever played has managed to resist the corporate greed that results from the knowledge that the game now has a gaping window of opportunity to milk more money out of its customers, and it has always been to the detriment of the game's real content.
 
If there's one reason (other than customer service) why NCsoft has a bad reputation, their corporate greed would be it. I would not trust them at all to have the cash shop remain "ethical" as you put it, even if Carbine started it out that way.
 
Since you mentioned it, GW2 is an excellent example of NCSoft ruining an otherwise good game through cash shop nonsense. ANet's content updates have degraded to the point where they would have no clue how to release new cosmetics if 95% of it wasn't through the gem store.
 
Sorry, Vic, but even giving NCsoft this idea makes me wish there was a dislike button.	
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As far as paying an extra $10 a month for access to their whole lineup of games...I'm rather indifferent. It's not something I'd pay for, but I don't see why the option would be bad.
 
I'll try to keep the rest of this as calm as possible, but...
 
...the moment a cash shop is announced, I will immediately unsub. At this point, I don't care how it's implemented. No company in any game I have ever played has managed to resist the corporate greed that results from the knowledge that the game now has a gaping window of opportunity to milk more money out of its customers, and it has always been to the detriment of the game's real content.
 
If there's one reason (other than customer service) why NCsoft has a bad reputation, their corporate greed would be it.
 
Since you mentioned it, GW2 is an excellent example of NCSoft ruining an otherwise good game through cash shop nonsense. ANet's content updates have degraded to the point where they would have no clue how to release new cosmetics if 95% of it wasn't through the gem store.
 
Sorry, Vic, but even giving NCsoft this idea makes me wish there was a dislike button.
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			Refer a Friend rewards, that'd bring in new players and sell boxes if not or so. Redeemable CREDD for appearance changes to via Sliders and path rerolls I think would also help its circulation.	
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Why?  As a suscriber, you would still have those items.
 
It just means NCSoft would be able to sell things like the Squirg headpiece and Sabotage beret to new players.
 
Where is the issue?
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As I stated, the issue is that the cash shop would even exist, for the very reasons I already outlined.
 
It is a direction I don't want the game to go, ever.
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As I stated, the issue is that the cash shop would even exist, for the very reasons I already outlined.
 
It is a direction I don't want the game to go, ever.
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Name Change Transfer CREDD Purchase page is a cash shop though, hate to think of it but that's how WoW's cash shop took root, at first it was a page with similar services then in comes the Pandaran Monk and Lil'KT pets..  :mellow:
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Name Change Transfer CREDD Purchase page is a cash shop though, hate to think of it but that's how WoW's cash shop took root, at first it was similar services then in comes the Pandaran Monk and Lil'KT pets..  :mellow:
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			I'm opposed to cash shops if any muscle of thought and development is wasted on cash store items and opposed to those items making you stronger. What I'm not opposed to is like you said discontinued things, I'd even toss the Piglet space ship in there. I wouldn't even care really if they included dyes and Boom-Boxes or even Boom-Box exclusive loot itself. So long as its also obtainable outside the cash shop or was a Limited Edition thing.	
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I don't consider paid customer service transactions like name changes, race changes, faction transfers, server transfers, etc., to be a cash store, simply because they are customer services outside the game, but I can see why some people might. CREDD is somewhere in between, but for some reason it doesn't bother me, I think mostly because the CREDD system doesn't open the game up to the possibility of future abuse.
 
 
The reason things end up "on a slippery slope" is because no one talks about the slippery slope until they're at the bottom wondering why their butts are sore.
 
As I said, I have no problem with the cash shop as you outlined. I simply don't trust NCsoft to keep it that way. Hence the slippery slope and my disagreement with adding it in the first place, even with the best of intentions.
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Altho i agree Ncsoft should focus on those things, i hardly think they will, it's basically about what is profitable atm, they couldn't care less how happy we are with cash shops or any other form of cash grab they can come up with, they want to make up for their losses, and i really believe this game is going f2p, there were too many walls for the average player and unlike most elitist people with the *be good or don't see any content* attitude, i knew that would be a terrible position for a game to survive nowadays.
 
It's sad but, we gotta face it, some cash grab shop/costume/qol will start showing up in the game soon, i suspect between drop 3 and 4.	
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Imagine if, instead of just a hat, Carbine were giving us plugs with new challenges, new mounts, and eventually cosmetic pets?  We get them and after a month they end up on a shop.
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Or the reason NCSoft isn't putting any more of their reputation on the line for this game is that they don't have faith in it and are waiting to collect holiday box sales before they drop the axe.
 
I actually find it kind of telling that they didn't post something in conjunction with yesterday's State of the Game announcement.	
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They already are giving us all of that permanently without a cash shop, so why add a cash shop? I don't see the appeal.
 
 
Right now, Carbine has incentive to add all of their content to the game itself, rather than a cash shop. The cash shop creates an unnecessary separation of content.
 
As far as NCSoft being a villain...they've proven it enough times and with enough severity for me to be proactive in voicing my opinions for Wildstar. However, I'm not condemning them, yet. If I were already condemning them, I wouldn't have purchased Wildstar in the first place.
 
The creation of a cash shop will be the moment of condemnation, as far as I'm concerned.
 
 
It's true. If they decide they're going to implement a cash shop, they will. I'm simply stating that I won't be here to see it.
 
It is a slippery slope argument. You are simply choosing to ignore it because you want to defend your suggestion, which I understand. However, the same problem you are seeing in my argument applies to yours. Whether or not you get them to add free stuff to the cash shop for subbed players, it's still opening the flood gates for other content being separated from the game itself, which is always a bad move, in my opinion.
 
Ultimately, my opinion may or may not make any difference, but that is not going to stop me from voicing it in the hopes that it will be heard. Your argument is the same one many people use to excuse the fact that they don't vote IRL. It doesn't hold water, because an unvoiced opinion is guaranteeing that it will have no effect, whereas a voiced opinion at least has the potential to be heard.
 
 
I'm not even sure what that means, but right now your sub is paying for access to every piece of content Carbine produces.
 
Ultimately, I have no interest in the loyalty rewards becoming more complicated. I would prefer if they remain simple. Add the more complex, newly developed items to the permanent game loot tables so that everyone has access to all of them, all the time.
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Or the reason NCSoft isn't putting any more of their reputation on the line for this game is that they don't have faith in it and are waiting to collect holiday box sales before they drop the axe.
 
I actually find it kind of telling that they didn't post something in conjunction with yesterday's State of the Game announcement.
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Well, I feel like it's sort of a sad waste that someone might get into the game, see that beret, and think, "I will never have that."
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The obvious solution to me is that Carbine should put these items into content that is in the game.
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They never say anything, that's one of the problems.  Why is that telling that they've continued that policy?
 
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Because I actually agree with you: after yesterday's demoralizing blow, it would have been a really good call to step in with a show of support.
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The appeal is for people who are gone for months, or who just start, so they can get those items if they want to pay backwards.  Most of the things I write about aren't my own personal problems.
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Thus making it completely worthless as a reward for subscribing?
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The appeal is for people who are gone for months, or who just start, so they can get those items if they want to pay backwards.  Most of the things I write about aren't my own personal problems.
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Good reason not to have loyalty items. Not a good enough reason to implement a cash shop.
 
 
If they're keeping us happy with real content, they don't need gimmicks like that to distract us or convince us we're happy.
 
 
You either misread what I wrote, or I was unclear, so I will reiterate:
 
I have no problem with your system as you stated it.
 
I have major objections to the potential problems it would cause, because judging by multiple games with which I have personal experience, NCsoft will never allow the cash shop to remain as you've outlined.
 
I am not willing to risk those potential problems. Therefore, my position is that I am not in support of your idea, and I will not waste my time or money watching another game sabotaged by an NCSoft cash shop.
 
 
 
It is only a continuum fallacy if there is no demonstrable evidence indicating the inevitability in question. In this case, the demonstrable evidence is past experience. I have already stated that my opinion on this matter is proactive rather than reactive, as reactive is much less likely to have any effect.
 
 
As to the red sentence, the short answer is yes, I will condemn this game and NCSoft both if they implement a cash shop of any type. I am not going to stick around or spend further money to see the eventual decay into the NCSoft abyss. I was hesitant enough to buy this game in the first place simply because it was under the NCSoft umbrella.
 
Part of the problem is that both the account rewards and the cash shop are inherently divorced from the game and exclusive, which leads into:
 
 
^ Precisely this.
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I don't consider it paying extra, I consider it paying for stuff they weren't subbed in to get.  We paid 15 dollars a month to keep the game going.  If you come in later and want the beret, I don't see a problem with asking them to pay some amount to get it.  We did.
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A cash shop is the death sentence for any game, outside of WoW. Once you add some fluff things to the cash shop that aren't exclusive, the producer gets it in their head to milk as much money as possible out of people, and eventually anything fun or cosmetic is cash shop exclusive.
 
So, if they ever implement a cash shop, I'm saying goodbye, and making another promise to find a way to forcibly pull greedy corporate assholes' heads out of their asses.
 
Don't underestimate greed. It's a rampant thing these days, especially in gaming companies. Activision, EA, NCsoft, and so on, they're all run by wallet-humping, greedy monsters, and their CEO's couldn't care less what happens to the game so long as it makes them money.	
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I don't think NCSoft are really the ones to villainize.
 
Gw2 developers had no issues with them and stated that they aren't the overlords that people think they are.  Games that perform well don't seem to have issues with their publishers (See: Gw2, Aion).  Aion has had a ton of content added since it went F2P, including 3 entire classes and huge land masses.
 
It's not NCSoft's fault that Carbine missed the mark with the targeted "hardcore audience" or didn't add enough dynamic content to keep players busy.
 
NCSoft didn't build the horrifying attunement process that locked 90% of the playerbase out of the biggest draw to the game.
 
Any game that underperforms SHOULD have problems with their publisher.
 
NCSoft has every right to step in and make changes or set standards when the title underperforms or is in trouble, which Wildstar is in a lot of right now.  They also have the right to protect their investment when hard metrics prove that the game is not doing well or has slipped beyond what it would reasonably cost to repair it or keep it functioning.
 
I were NCSoft, I would give players the option of converting subscription time into Gw2 gems or other currencies to funnel players into one of their already existing and successful flagship titles.  I would do this if if drop 3 fails to meet a reasonable set metrics for success (which may very well happen) and would follow up this activity by imposing a decomissioning plan for Wildstar.  I think this would be a justified and proper move to make as a publisher CEO.  I would tell the developer ahead of time that if they do not perform this would happen.  I would give them a reasonable set of metrics to meet to stay afloat.  Sometimes you have to light a fire under someone to get a good product.  No one likes throwing money into a bad investment if it can't be turned around or signs of progress aren't being made.  Who knows, maybe NCSoft already did this?  If they did, all they are doing is their job, so stop hating.  This is just how busines works.  If you don't make it and can't fix it, well there are reprecussions for failure.	
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We didn't pay for the beret. We paid for the game, just like anyone else who joins the game at any point in time is doing. So yes, it would be paying extra.
 
At any rate, the sub reward models I am familiar with (Rift, FFXIV) function how I described and it works quite well.
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all cash shop models are bad except mine?  Isn't that sort of why we have suggestion threads, so that we can suggest ways of doing things that no one, apparently including the players of this game, have thought of?
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The point of suggestion threads is discussion and consideration, which is what this thread has been, and why the mods haven't locked it. What Naunet, Sciela, and I have tried to communicate are reasons why we disagree with your suggestion. Pure and simple.
 
We see your suggestion as having repercussions that you are either not addressing or are not seeing, which have already been outlined, and you have not successfully convinced me otherwise.
 
At this point, no one needs to be villainized, and you certainly don't need to feel badly for having put yourself out on a limb by making a suggstion, but put simply, your suggestion is not something that I would want to see implemented.
 
 
I would be very interested to read ANet's statement about NCSoft not being overlords, if you have a link to it, as it would likely divert some of my dislike of NCSoft at ANet themselves, if that's truly where it belongs. GW and GW2 are two of the successful games that are a major part of the reason I dislike NCSoft, so it will be interesting to find out if my distaste is better directed at ANet themselves.
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The only sub-game-cash-shop deal I liked was FF:ARR and the extra retainer and race change potion.
I HATE the fact that the extra retainer is an extra 2$/month for it though, instead of a 1 time fee.
Something like that would be awesome, but items and the like bein' in it, even for new players only or whatever, would be freakin' garbage.
 
Services would be great, items would be messed up on a level I can't even imagine.	
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Vic,
 
I doesn't matter if a game is making money or not for NCSoft to shut it down.  CoH/V was making money.  It was still shut down for other reasons.  NCSoft is not a "western" company and operates by different rules. When dealing with NCSoft it is best to be on guard.  Moral of the story ( from CoH/V ) is never ... Never ... NEVER invest in the long term in NCSoft anything.	
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The point of suggestion threads is discussion and consideration, which is what this thread has been, and why the mods haven't locked it. What Naunet, Sciela, and I have tried to communicate are reasons why we disagree with your suggestion. Pure and simple.
 
We see your suggestion as having repercussions that you are either not addressing or are not seeing, which have already been outlined, and you have not successfully convinced me otherwise.
 
At this point, no one needs to be villainized, and you certainly don't need to feel badly for having put yourself out on a limb by making a suggstion, but put simply, your suggestion is not something that I would want to see implemented.
 
 
I would be very interested to read ANet's statement about NCSoft not being overlords, if you have a link to it, as it would likely divert some of my dislike of NCSoft at ANet themselves, if that's truly where it belongs. GW and GW2 are two of the successful games that are a major part of the reason I dislike NCSoft, so it will be interesting to find out if my distaste is better directed at ANet themselves.
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Vic,
 
I doesn't matter if a game is making money or not for NCSoft to shut it down.  CoH/V was making money.  It was still shut down for other reasons.  NCSoft is not a "western" company and operates by different rules. When dealing with NCSoft it is best to be on guard.  Moral of the story ( from CoH/V ) is never ... Never ... NEVER invest in the long term in NCSoft anything.
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