122941-i-miss-wildstar-page-2

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I think you are a confusing, apathy within the playerbase, lack of guilds and inaccessibility of raid content with difficulty of raid content. WoW's Mythic raids are no joke, the majority of the playerbase will never clear them while they are relevant content.  I'm pretty confident in saying WoW's top guilds would stomp all over Wildstars raids just as they stomp all over WoW's raids.
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And I'm pretty confident in saying that with an even easier time, Wildstar's Top Guilds would stomp all over WoW's Mythic raids. Especially since Mythic raids are far more forgiving than Wildstar's "one-and-you're-done" combat system. And the whole, "you can still do damage to a target/heal a player if you're facing perpendicular thing". Since it's a simpler lock-on targeting system, with no actual aiming. Not to mention that if Wildstar allowed for (not even multiple), a SINGLE battle rez, like you can still do multiple times in WoW's hardest setting, which even the Top Guild's no doubt rely on. Tank's dead in WoW? Rez him, make sure his "Persists through Death" flask still has it's hours long timer, and re-buff him with class buffs. Tank's dead in Wildstar? Everyone die/Wipe it, unless the boss is at 1% health.
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I don't think you're fooling anyone if you're trying to imply that WoW's raids are as, if not more difficult than WildStars. WildStar's engine just gives combat more dimensions, On WoW it's basically stay out of the red, usual aggro mechanics/tank swap etc... and interact with object Y every now and then. Whereas wildstar can have all of that plus dashing, sprinting, aiming, additional verticle content thanks to the ability to double jump, sprint and moblity skills etc...
 
Additionally battle res does make things easier, it's the mmo equivalent of an extra life, whereas on WildStar You Only Live Once.
 
Not trying to suggest that WoW's mythic raids are easy by any means, but I'm pretty sure WildStar holds the 'hard as nails' raids trophy.	
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Obviously been awhile since you raided in WoW.
look, if you want to believe that WIldstar's raids are that much harder and thats the real reason hardly anyone has cleared them, go right ahead. If you want to think guilds like method, paragon, midwinter etc wouldn't clear wildstars raids as easily as they clear WoW's mythic, fine, you're wrong :P but thats your choice. It's inaccurate to say WoW's Mythic difficulty is not difficult. it is very challenging.
 
you're description of WoW's raiding is not anymore accurate than someone saying Wildstars combat and raids are a boring repetitive spam fest of stay out of the red and interrupt, pretty simplified stuff really, remove any other mechanics and just add red on the ground and throw in some interrupts. I don't see how having 1 battle rez available suddenly makes raids easier. better, yes, not easier. IMO it is a good thing to allow people to recover from a mistake if they are good enough or even if they get a little lucky. It adds in another element of strategy and rewards quick thinking, teamwork and co operation.  Wildstars punish every little mistake and never mind trying to recover philosophy makes their raids far more one dimensional. There is only black and white, no shades of grey
 
 
 
 
and I don't think you would resort to personal attacks and insults if you had a decent argument that could stand on its own.
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This discussion about whether WoW or Wildstar is harder because mechanic X, Y, or Z exist in WoW or Wildstar is stupid. The metrics Blizzard uses internally to determine fight difficulty are pretty adequate to compare fights from WoW to Wildstar - how many attempts does the 'average' progression guild for that level of difficulty take to down each boss? Only a handful? Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands?
 
Most of the early Mythic bosses only take a dozen or so attempts to down whereas the harder bosses can take hundreds. As I understand it, a large number of guilds have cleared GA now. Simply compare the median number of attempts to down each of the bosses, and you've got a nice little comparison baseline. I don't know if Wildstar has sites like worldoflogs to track the number of attempts each guild puts in, but I'm sure people could get a rough estimate. If they're in the same order of magnitude, their difficulty is probably pretty similar.	
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This game is laid on a solid foundation, has great visuals and great audio. It's a pleasure to move around. Wish it was more accessible so it could have more people. Wish I could bring my friends back and not have them feel either left out or slowed down just because we're not on the same skill level and the punishing nature of the game does not allow us to play together. It also does not have progression content for different levels of people so the less skilled or more time starved folk are stuck running adventures and decorating their house.
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This discussion about whether WoW or Wildstar is harder because mechanic X, Y, or Z exist in WoW or Wildstar is stupid. The metrics Blizzard uses internally to determine fight difficulty are pretty adequate to compare fights from WoW to Wildstar - how many attempts does the 'average' progression guild for that level of difficulty take to down each boss? Only a handful? Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands?
 
Most of the early Mythic bosses only take a dozen or so attempts to down whereas the harder bosses can take hundreds. As I understand it, a large number of guilds have cleared GA now. Simply compare the median number of attempts to down each of the bosses, and you've got a nice little comparison baseline. I don't know if Wildstar has sites like worldoflogs to track the number of attempts each guild puts in, but I'm sure people could get a rough estimate. If they're in the same order of magnitude, their difficulty is probably pretty similar.
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I don't see how having 1 battle rez available suddenly makes raids easier.
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just from the length of time it took to clear
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I'm not going to argue with you about this. Four horsemen certainly is not the hardest fight in WoW, even if it was the fight that remained undefeated the longest. I've already said what I considered metrics for comparing fights - number of wipes by the average progression guild in that content.
 
By the way, I've actually already seen both of those videos, thank you very much. I'm not sure what exactly I'm supposed to be looking at though. I don't consider the average amount of time you're on the move necessarily indicative of difficulty - WoW is specifically designed with tight DPS checks and movement costing you DPS, so the idea is that good players reduce the amount of time they're moving around, rather than the game revolving around dodging and dipping around. DPS some pillars down, don't stand in the red, life grip people out of the air before they plummet to their death... these mechanics exist in WoW as well.
 
If overwhelming the screen with red is scary to you, you'd have fun with Thogar, Maidens, or Blackhand. Yet just because there's a lot of bad places to stand in Thogar doesn't necessarily make it a harder fight than Furnace.
 
 
If WoW simply stripped off b-rezzes, would it be harder? Of course. Blizzard can be more ruthless with instant death mechanics when they allow for brezes though. Also, often during progression someone going down means a wipe anyways, as it means you just fell behind in required DPS to beat the enrage or HPS in order to keep the raid up. Tip top guilds with warforged BMAH blackrock gear can get away with it, but if you go in with less gear, you often can't even afford those types of DPS losses.
 
Wasn't the first kill of X-89 16 man IIRC? So much for needing perfect execution from a full 20-man, if you don't even need a full raid size.
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I'm not going to argue with you about this. Four horsemen certainly is not the hardest fight in WoW, even if it was the fight that remained undefeated the longest. I've already said what I considered metrics for comparing fights - number of wipes by the average progression guild in that content.
 
By the way, I've actually already seen both of those videos, thank you very much. I'm not sure what exactly I'm supposed to be looking at though. I don't consider the average amount of time you're on the move necessarily indicative of difficulty - WoW is specifically designed with tight DPS checks and movement costing you DPS, so the idea is that good players reduce the amount of time they're moving around, rather than the game revolving around dodging and dipping around. DPS some pillars down, don't stand in the red, life grip people out of the air before they plummet to their death... these mechanics exist in WoW as well.
 
If overwhelming the screen with red is scary to you, you'd have fun with Thogar, Maidens, or Blackhand. Yet just because there's a lot of bad places to stand in Thogar doesn't necessarily make it a harder fight than Furnace.
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Well, that could be why you're getting frustrated.  So you want that also in the game?  I can't say it would bother me (again, I tend to put my groups together the old fashioned way).  However, that looks like it works a lot better than LFD/LFR did.  No complaints from me there in practice.  Then again, I still don't think it's better than actually asking for a group in a channel, having someone respond, and working out how your group will work before you kick off.
 
At least this thing looks a little more nuanced, though.  Sort of like when we'd say "LFM BFD need a healer and 2 DPS then GTG", only it doesn't scroll off the channel.
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Tip top guilds with warforged BMAH blackrock gear can get away with it, but if you go in with less gear, you often can't even afford those types of DPS losses.
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I didn't read the entire thread. But my question is simple:
 
If you miss the game, why not play it?	
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I'm not going to argue with you about this. Four horsemen certainly is not the hardest fight in WoW, even if it was the fight that remained undefeated the longest. I've already said what I considered metrics for comparing fights - number of wipes by the average progression guild in that content.
 
By the way, I've actually already seen both of those videos, thank you very much. I'm not sure what exactly I'm supposed to be looking at though. I don't consider the average amount of time you're on the move necessarily indicative of difficulty - WoW is specifically designed with tight DPS checks and movement costing you DPS, so the idea is that good players reduce the amount of time they're moving around, rather than the game revolving around dodging and dipping around. DPS some pillars down, don't stand in the red, life grip people out of the air before they plummet to their death... these mechanics exist in WoW as well.
 
If overwhelming the screen with red is scary to you, you'd have fun with Thogar, Maidens, or Blackhand. Yet just because there's a lot of bad places to stand in Thogar doesn't necessarily make it a harder fight than Furnace.
 
 
If WoW simply stripped off b-rezzes, would it be harder? Of course. Blizzard can be more ruthless with instant death mechanics when they allow for brezes though. Also, often during progression someone going down means a wipe anyways, as it means you just fell behind in required DPS to beat the enrage or HPS in order to keep the raid up. Tip top guilds with warforged BMAH blackrock gear can get away with it, but if you go in with less gear, you often can't even afford those types of DPS losses.
 
Wasn't the first kill of X-89 16 man IIRC? So much for needing perfect execution from a full 20-man, if you don't even need a full raid size.
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