Report 851

Report #851
Skillset: Necromancy Skill: DeathWeapon
 Org: Ur'Guard Status: Completed Jun 2012
Furies' Decision:
We felt the solutions provided were overly complex or powerful. We have instead
opted for an idea brought up in the comments - deathmark levels will decrease
the healing of wounds via health applications.
Problem: This is another attempt at addressing the very useless skill that is
DeathWeapon, I will begin by saying that the passive build of Deathmark is
unviable in a group scenario(you can't build upon others deathmark or benefit
from another necromancers deathmark) Deathmark currently extends the time it
takes to gain balance from crucify by 1 second as well as provide a boost in
plague afflictions from the Contagion skill which as a warrior, trying to use
the cross to sacrifice is extremely unreliable and is not usually attempted at
all. In addition to this, Deathweapon gives a very very small chance to afflict
with a contagion afflict.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: In addition to solution 2(Both sub-options in
 Deathweapon[CAN ONLY HAVE ONE ACTIVE]) Allow the
 Necromancer to channel the cold of the grave into his
 or her weapon, surpressing the ability to actively
 use ColdAura(3p for archliches, 5p for
 non-archliches) but allowing the warrior to afflict
 with cold on hit(50% proc for 2h 25% for 1h). Remove
 the malus and chance for contagion afflict as well as
 keep the same active mana drain from Coldaura as well.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: In addition to Solution 1(Both sub-options in
 Deathweapon[CAN ONLY HAVE ONE ACTIVE])Allow the
 Necromancers to channel the powers of contagion into
 the weapon at a cost(3p for archliches, 5p for
 non-archliches) and without the ability to breathe
 contagion actively. This would cause the weapon to
 afflict festeringwounds(not an actual affliction)
 that slows the application rate of deepwounds by 10%
 which dissapates at negligible wounds(can't
 festerwounds on cuts and scratches) this percentage
 could be up to 15% on heavy and critical(bigger
 wounds mean more meat to rot) Remove the malus and
 chance for contagion afflict for this solution as
 well.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: In addition to solution 1 and 2(Both sub-options in
 Deathweapon[CAN ONLY HAVE ONE ACTIVE]) give the
 Necromancer the ability to imbue weapons with both
 the cold of the grave and disease(Won't be able to
 coldaura or breathe contagion) for a stat bonus +10
 speed +10 prec for 1 handers, +10 speed +20 prec for
 2 handers. As before the chance for small contagion
 afflict would be removed.
Player Comments:
---[Xynthin on 5/5 @ 19:55 writes]:
I don't really like this report at all. Solution one allows for a warrior to
pretty consistently keep someone off their purgative balance (you're going to
have to sip each time you're hit, especially with dual-wielding specs). The
closest that I can come is being somewhat interested by a concept of Solution 2:
Perhaps, with higher deathmarks, have deepwounds cured at a slower rate (up to
15% fewer wounds healed per application at the highest deathmark level). This
would more than counter the lowered statistics.
---[Raeri on 5/10 @ 05:55 writes]:
I can see Solution 1, if it's 50% for a 2h weapon and halved to 25% for 1h
swings. (We're talking a single application of chills, yes?)
---[Vladimere on 5/25 @ 06:00 writes]:
Adjusted solution 1 percents for 2h and 1h weapons.
---[Xynthin on 6/1 @ 22:39 writes]:
Even with the reduced percentages for dual-wielding weapons, the percentages are
too high-- I just still don't like the suggested solutions here. A straight
wound-application-reduction aura is excessive as well. If something -needs- to
be done, the best solution I can see is still the one in my comment- reduce
wound application based on higher deathmarks. That also gives warriors more of
a reason to build 'em.
---[Rivius on 6/3 @ 20:19 writes]:
I'm in full agreement with Xynthin. Whatever solution goes through on this
report, it should escalate based deathmark level. Since cleansing deathmark is
not feasible during battle, the solution should not be overwhelming, though
still provide a very useful boost to the Ur'Guard. Personally, I'm also a fan of
the reduced wound healing with per deathmark, though if that isn't possible,
increased wound building is also acceptable here. I'm not at all a fan of being
able to hit with double cold every 3 seconds, so I'll reject that completely.
---[Shuyin on 6/9 @ 00:29 writes]:
I agree with Xenthos' assessment. A wound reduction aura that scales with
deathmarks seems to be a better choice.
---[Vladimere on 6/14 @ 00:22 writes]:
I will refer you to the problem stated, that building deathmark is highly
unlikely and useless for warriors as the other benefits of building deathmark
are directly related to Nihilist abilities up to and including crucify and
sacrifice. Also worth noting, to build deathmark as suggested by Xenthos and
Shuyin would require the warrior go against normal warrior weapon combat to do
so.
---[Ushaara on 6/15 @ 19:22 writes]:
I really like the festering wounds concept, so would be neat if that could be
made workable somehow. Perhaps passing certain wounding thresholds on your
target could provide increased benefit? Something like: if target has 2000+
total wounds on their body, deathmark level rises, if target has 3000+ total
wounds deathmark level rises + afflicted with plague affliction? The festering
wounds check ticking every X seconds?
---[Xynthin on 6/15 @ 22:23 writes]:
Doesn't deathmark get increased by attacking with weapons? How does that 'go
against normal warrior combat'? The only thing I can think of is that it makes
the weapon a little slower, but by having increased deathmarks cause increased
wounding you're trading some speed for more effect in the long term-- that's not
against warrior combat at all!
---[Silvanus on 6/16 @ 05:42 writes]:
Doesn't deathmark get decreased by cleanse? (yes) Which is entirely feasible
during combat, contrary to what Rivius said above, so you are not really
increasing wounding for trading some speed, you are only forcing the enemy to
cleanse every so often, which they will do, as I assure you happens. Can easily
provide logs of it, or just force any M&M user to get into a cleanse loop. Any
ability that -requires- deathmark to be built up in the longrun will not be used
with how easily it is to cleanse away, especially with soap. If you want to fix
DeathWeapon for Ur'Guard, do not require it to be based off of DeathMark levels
which are easily reduced.
---[Vladimere on 6/16 @ 18:44 writes]:
Deathmark is increased by attacking with weapons. Maybe a better phrase would
have been 'normal ur'guard warrior combat' as sacrifice is all about impossible
as an ur'guard warrior and attempting to do so is completely undependable in a
1vs1 situation or a group situation where Nihilists would be available
---[Xenthos on 6/22 @ 21:34 writes]:
If someone's cleansing to cure off deathmarks, they're letting you have your way
with them as a warrior. Scrubbing = no action = warrior is not being hindered.
That's like, one of the main facets of deathmark... using it burns up enemy
actions.
---[Silvanus on 6/23 @ 06:27 writes]:
Its like you are just ignoring any of the problems stated in the multiple
reports on this: 'Due to how the --->scaling<--- works, deathmark is only of
remote use in 1v1 situations yielding a plague aff low % chance at the sacrifice
of damage, precision, and speed.' from report 767. What you are trying to
suggest is the exact same thing but change the plague aff into making it harder
to cure wounds, yet ignoring the entirety of the problem: DEATHWEAPON, the skill
used by Ur'Guard that lowers the stats on their weapons, requires levels built
up by DEATHMARK, a skill used by Nihilists and Ur'Guard, which if it weren't so
easy to get rid of, you'd have plenty of problems fighting Nihilists. Like I
said before, if you want to fix DEATHWEAPON for Ur'Guard, you have to make it
unreliable on DEATHMARK, because of the ease to remove mark levels. Not to
mention, what you are suggesting is the same thing as Solution 2, but completely
ignoring the problem: Deathweapon is unuseable due to its reliance on DeathMark,
especially with lowered stats.
---[Silvanus on 6/23 @ 06:30 writes]:
Now, a few things to go over if your suggested solution goes in with DeathWeapon
being relied on DeathMark. DeathMark is -useless- until level 12, when it gives
you a bal/eq less diagnose. The crucifix bonus only happens at level 15. What
you are suggesting is what takes a Ur'Guard, on average, assuming no hindering,
37.5 seconds to build up a full DeathMark after marking the enemy, and wounds
becoming harder to cure based on that DeathMark level. After 38 seconds, that
Ur'Guard will finally be at that 15% and be able to make an impact. I don't know
if you've ever played a burst class offense, but I can easily get off two kill
scenarios in that time with a bit of luck, before the Ur'Guard has even built up
to level 15 to get that 15% harder to cure wounds. Oh, and what happens after I
used up my offense, waiting for power to regain, while this Ur'Guard has been
building up deathmark? Oh I think I'm just going to walk out of the room and
cleanse a few times, there goes that 37.5 seconds that Ur'Guard has to build up
for, assuming they were Aslaran of course. Once again, DeathMark, and by
extension, DeathWeapon is entirely useless to a class that has a much harder
time preventing you from leaving the room as most other classes, and can easily
be cured down.
---[Xenthos on 6/24 @ 01:37 writes]:
A few things to go over if my suggested solution goes in: Deathmark won't be
useless until level 12, because it will be increasing wounding at all levels,
just scaling up as it increases. You're just arbitrarily stating that unless it
is at max level it has no effect and thus it's 'pointless until then'. That's
just... not the case. (Well, that's one thing, but your comments don't really
make any sense to me given how the skill is designed, built, and intended to
work-- and it can be tweaked so that it is useful while still remaining within
the intended scope).
---[Silvanus on 6/24 @ 04:38 writes]:
Again, its like you are ignoring the problem. You have a chance to inflict
plague affs at any level, its just increased at higher DeathMark levels, so in
reality it actually does do something before level 12, it just really sucks. You
are trying to do the same thing as Solution 2, but instead of having it based on
wound levels, have it based on DeathMark levels, which as repeated in ad
nauseum, is the problem with the skill, due to how scaling works. Scaling it off
of DeathMark is the problem, as repeated. Your solution doesn't even account for
the reduced stats on the weapons, which is another problem stated, nor does it
account for the fact that its basing it off of DeathMark levels, which once
again stated, is the problem. If you happen to notice at all the solutions, they
suggest removing the malus, and not a single solution is presented around levels
of the opponents DeathMark. Solution 2 is suggested to scale against the
person's wounds, what a Warrior actually builds up for, instead of the DeathMark
levels, like your solution, like against the stated problems with the skill
already.
---[Xenthos on 6/24 @ 19:27 writes]:
It's more like you're ignoring how warrior combat works. Anything a warrior can
do passively, in addition to their standard attacks, is of great benefit-- and
something that takes balance to cure is a *significant* bonus. You're also
ignoring repeated Admin decisions where they have either said or strongly
implied they -will not remove the malus-. PS: Increased wounding more than
addresses lowered stats, and makes it so one would actually want to cure the
deathmarks, chewing up their balance.
---[Hiriako on 6/25 @ 17:58 writes]:
Honestly, if nothing else, the complex solutions make this a pain to read, and
likely a pain for people to understand. Combat's complex enough as it is, so I'm
iffy about it. I still like the idea of just giving a small wound increase (or
healing malus) with each deathmark level.
---[Llandros on 6/30 @ 03:14 writes]:
This would be pretty cool, but if it's not balance/too complicated (i'm not an
authority on warrior combat and am hesitant to offer a firm opinion) some kind
of smaller change like the deathmark/healing malus idea would be good too.