109369-ws-at-50my-take

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I'm a casual player (2-3 hours per day) and this is my take on this game.  Everyone is posting threads on what they're upset with or what they want changed.  This is my perspective from what I see (all of our opinions will be different, not asking anyone to agree with me; but these are my problems I have with w*)
 
 
After hitting 50 (like most MMOs I play) I usually tend to do the casual pug dungeons here and there, world bosses (if guildies are doing it), dailies (if I need the cash), and my main focus is PvP! 
 
Problems I have ran into once hitting 50 in WS: 
PvP seems a bit broken, if your not dishing out plat to get yourself in ranked gear your kinda stuck considering the amazing imbalance between the two. 
PvP well I typically don't have a problem with premades; but this game seems to have nothing but those at 50.  If your not in a premade it will be an extremely rare win at the level 50 bracket. Kinda wish there was a solo que only bracket, same with ranked.  Love doing solo ques in previous games because it comes down to communication and working with other players that you have probably never played with before. 
Dailies are mind numbing boring! I really couldn't take anymore of the strain after hitting 50, dailies in this game put boring onto another level.  (This is just my opinion and it's my choice not to do them)
Dungeons, I really enjoyed the challenge of these when I had time to do them when the game first came out. However at 50 I have had trouble putting aside over an hour to do a pug, which in my experience most of the ones I have done have taken over an hour.  So dungeons are more for people with more time on their hands, which there's nothing wrong with that it just limits the casuals a touch more. 
Attunement, I'm sorry but I have to at least throw one complaint out on that! Considering how the servers are dwindling raids are turning into the select few with a great guild which would be a SMALL percentage of who's even still playing this game. Either get rid of them completely or dumb them down quite a bit.  This is a lot of content that will never be played by the masses imo! 
Loot, rng is one thing but man this game is absurd for time sinks with minimal reward.  This may have been something that worked in the past, but with the amount of mmos out there now days people don't want to sink that much time into something that gets you practically nothing in return.  This to me has to be changed extremely.
Now this leaves me with nothing much to do except housing, how can we fix this? Obviously pvp needs some work; however dungeons in my opinion should be offered as different difficulty settings with different loot tables, the hardcore can run their dungeons and receive the loot they deserve while casuals can run their cupcake and rainbows dungeon and receive a high five for loot.  That opens a lot of doors for keeping people around.
 
Until things change I have been leveling alts doing nothing but BGs on lower level alts.  However I think I'm even done doing that, not sure if I'm going to up my sub.
 
I really enjoy this game and I don't understand who Carbine is trying to cater to, they know how big of a player base the casuals are.  So if they're strictly going to keep it for the hardcore (more free time players) than that's fine that's their choice.  However I have rarely seen a business of this size that wants to strictly keep only one type of player. 
 
 
TLDR: Love this game and hope things change, until then farewell w*	
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If your typical play session is under an hour then I'm not sure what you expect to get out of an MMO once you cap out level.  If you enjoy running around doing whatever, then it's fun.  If you don't...well, you can't raid, do dungeon, and you don't want to quest... So what do you want?
 
It's a game.  Do what's fun.  If you don't have fun doing the things you've been doing since day 1, why did you even stay this long?  People hit 50 and then see the wall they have to climb to get bigger numbers on their character sheet and suddenly nothing in fun.  It happens in almost every MMO game, and it's a product of getting gamers addicted to stat increases to keep them playing/paying.  If you just play for the numbers, you'd be doing yourself a favor by dropping MMOs altogether.	
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			Well judging by the large amounts of people leaving, I am not certain people should be saying every things fine and dandy around here because it isn't.	
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You know what bothers me that I never see mentioned? Icons. They're the worst of any game. Seriously, the icon artist is a lazy son-of-a-gun. For example, there's like 20 different kinds of food all with the same icon.  Or Like the 25 different power cores in my inventory, all different .. SAME ICON. Sheesh. LAZY. Been Playing "Divinity Original Sin" made by this tiny studio Larian. Guess what? When I look in my inventory, at a glance I know exactly what's in there. Wildstar? I'm having to hover my cursor over pretty much everything. ugh.
 	
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Well judging by the large amounts of people leaving, I am not certain people should be saying every things fine and dandy around here because it isn't.
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Guy posts some valid, constructive feedback and you come in and pretty much tell him to quit the genre completely.
 
Yea, ok.	
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Guy posts some valid, constructive feedback and you come in and pretty much tell him to quit the genre completely.
 
Yea, ok.
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You know what bothers me that I never see mentioned? Icons. They're the worst of any game. Seriously, the icon artist is a lazy son-of-a-gun. For example, there's like 20 different kinds of food all with the same icon.  Or Like the 25 different power cores in my inventory, all different .. SAME ICON. Sheesh. LAZY. Been Playing "Divinity Original Sin" made by this tiny studio Larian. Guess what? When I look in my inventory, at a glance I know exactly what's in there. Wildstar? I'm having to hover my cursor over pretty much everything. ugh.
 
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@ Xithian
 
Wether it's an hour, 2, or 3 it's more so that time spent in other MMOs you can accomplish something, and have fun during that time where it's not a grind. I'm fine with certain grinds with bountiful rewards. Every MMO I have played I typically hit level cap, grind pvp gear, do ranked, as a casual it's perfect for the amount of time I have to play; however most mmos have other options at 50 such as pev or events that can easily be done within an hour or so. 
 
I don't plan on quiting the genre I really enjoy MMOs and I'm just venting a little; mostly because I love this game (combat style) and it kinda sucks not having a lot to do at level cap compared to other games being offered in this genre.
 
I'm really not looking for feedback that simply states "that's the way it is if you don't like it well leave". I'm looking from a perspective that I enjoy this game would like to see some changes so I don't have to leave. I would like to see improvements or know carbines agenda, if this is simply a niche game so be it; but if it's a game they want to succeed I would love it if they would make some changes to keep some of us around.	
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I don't plan on quiting the genre I really enjoy MMOs and I'm just venting a little; mostly because I love this game (combat style) and it kinda sucks not having a lot to do at level cap compared to other games being offered in this genre.
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			Vet Dungeons take 20-50m~ if you know what you're doing but raids take more than an hour so attunement/raids shouldn't be on your casualdar if you can't put even that much aside. I can only imagine "I would like to apply to your raiding guild, I can't play for more than 50m though" wouldn't go over too well anywhere in any MMO.I understand some complaints, PvP is obviously going to be rough for now till they apply the gap closing fixes that we see on the PTR. Don't assume just cause you dish out plat you'll be good even in T2 PvP gear though, I've crushed practically every player I see in T2 in BGs. Most are obviously unskilled wintraders/carried players that get trained around.	
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			once upon a time games were played for fun and "game over" with the scrolling text of the developers names were the only reward needed.	
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once upon a time games were played for fun and "game over" with the scrolling text of the developers names were the only reward needed.
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When was this time pertaining to the MMO genre? 
 
Oh, it never existed? Keep trollin along. 
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1995-2000 C.E. give or take.
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			little fat kids dont want fun, they want candy. for free ofc.	
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EQ1 (my first MMO) was before 2000.  You're going to tell me that game was played for fun and only for fun? K.
 
MMOs are not a single-player game.  You don't 'beat' them and go trade them in at X store for another (or keep them, Sup Goldeneye N64).
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Cheers, EQ1 was a game I played a lot when I was younger as well, was a damn good game (wasn't my first though, first was Terra). 
 
As one long time EQ player to another...
 
Were you around when Kerafyrm was killed? If you were, let me ask you; what did we receive for killing him?
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So from what I have seen so far most dungeons seem to be balanced around 90 minutes max to complete if you're going slow, but if you're in a group that's struggling, it will take several hours.  On the other hand, a group that's running like a well-oiled machine will finish up usually in 30-40 minutes.
 
As someone who doesn't have that much time to play either, I can understand the OP's frustration.  The only real solution I can offer is find a good guild to do things with.  A good guild takes care of 90% of your problems, because you're not reliant on PUGs anymore, you've got folks to set up premades in PvP, and so on.
 
If it were as easy as just saying it you wouldn't have made this thread, but I wanted to point out that there is a place for time-limited players in Wildstar.  Like anything else, it just requires you to join up with other players that have similar interests and that (in this case) understand that you can't make this game a second job.	
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EQ1 (my first MMO) was before 2000.  You're going to tell me that game was played for fun and only for fun? K.
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EQ was funny like that.  For a lot of players, the game was *about* progression via itemization.  I know when we first started raiding NToV it was *all* about the loot.  But somewhere along the way we graduated from that and it became more about the challenge - about being able to say "we beat this".  By the time we got to PoP, most of the folks I raided with couldn't care less about the drops (although upgrades were nice), but it was more about being able to check a zone off the list and say "yup, we got that down, on to the next one".
 
The problem with that of course is that eventually the challenges get so ridiculous that it's just not worth it anymore.  A lot of our folks, veteran raiders all, simply burned out as the raids got more and more and more extreme.  The new blood that came in was focused on items again.  And so the wheel turns, I guess.
 
I think it's the same in Wildstar or any other game with raiding content.  The difference between now and then is that we raided in EQ for almost 5 full years before that wheel turned.  Most games these days, including Wildstar, it seems like people will make that transition much faster - in a matter of months.  That's maybe not a bad thing, really, but it's maybe not a good thing, either.
 
It's late and I am philosophical tonight.	
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Wildstar at lvl50... so many questions... to take the plunge or to stay standing on the cliff... and if you do take the plunge, do you survive the fall to see the sunshine and rainbows on the other side... :mellow:
 	
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I'm in the same boat as the OP. Usually PvP is the only thing I can do as it is relatively accessible and I don't have to spend my game time waiting for people to group up for PvE.
 
I'm glad I'm not capped yet because considering the state the PvP is in I'm not sure I'd stick around. Logging in to get rolled non-stop for an hour is not my idea of having some fun after work.	
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once upon a time games were played for fun and "game over" with the scrolling text of the developers names were the only reward needed.
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I'm not a PvPer.  I can't give you any feedback on that.  As a PvEer it's the bane of my existence as it normally causes the FotM class issue as nerfs bounce around.
 
 
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Actually Ellz,
 
I see it the exact opposite. FOR YEARS now ... a la WoW. ;)	
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Yeah, remember all the phat loot when the Sleeper was taken down?  Oh wait...he just had a placeholder item...  One of the most memorable moments out of every video game I have ever played.  Why?  For fun.
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Actually Ellz,
 
I see it the exact opposite. FOR YEARS now ... a la WoW. ;)
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PVE'rs are the reason that classes get imbalanced.
Because classes QQ that they are not on the top of the damage charts in raids. 
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Uhhh, most MMOs I've played, classes get imbalanced/nerfed due to PvP, because PvPers QQ that certain attacks, buffs, debuffs, AoEs, etc are "unfair" when it comes to "true PvP comp".
 
 
Erm, Wildstar still classifies as a tab-target game FYI.  Just because it might have telegraphs and dodge-rolls, it doesn't differentiate itself at all from tab-targeting.  Only real break-away from tab-targeting is true action-oriented MMOs with real-time aiming and such... like Tera, Fallen Earth, etc.
 
 
The EXACT issue I have with too much PvP emphasis being made on a PVE-CENTRIC game.  PvPers come into a PvE-focused game (like WoW, as Kytar pointed out earlier), complain about the PvP, and the rest of the game gets nerfed from top to bottom to "balance PvP".  As you stated, all those other games have no PvE focus... so perhaps a game more like ArcheAge would be more fitting for those that want solid PvP-focus, rather than trying to make a PvE game (which was intended by the devs, hence focus on raiding) into a PvP-based game.
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Tl:dr 
Since pvp isn't their main focus, most of those class imbalances are coming from pve changes right?
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@ZombieTechnix,
 
I don't see the difference in what you linked and in what Ellz said regarding tab targeting. You know that you don't have to tab target in WS and still hit your "target", like in an FPS, since basically every ability is AoE, right?	
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@ZombieTechnix,
 
I don't see the difference in what you linked and in what Ellz said regarding tab targeting. You know that you don't have to tab target in WS and still hit your "target", like in an FPS, since basically every ability is AoE, right?
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			So if in TERA you could suddenly put a red circe on someone with tab, it would become a tab targeting game? Because that's more or less the difference between TERA and WS (there are some helping features in WS like auto-face target and such, but it actually makes combat worse, so not sure if anyone uses that).	
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Wildstar at lvl50... so many questions... to take the plunge or to stay standing on the cliff... and if you do take the plunge, do you survive the fall to see the sunshine and rainbows on the other side... :mellow:
 
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So if in TERA you could suddenly put a red circe on someone with tab, it would become a tab targeting game? Because that's more or less the difference between TERA and WS (there are some helping features in WS like auto-face target and such, but it actually makes combat worse, so not sure if anyone uses that).
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igger emphasis on Tera is the actual need to have to aim to hit your target with a reticule.  Even if you put a red-circle on your target, if you weren't aiming the reticule directly at it, you missed, end of story, no rolling of dice, no saving extra rolls, nothing.  That in itself is the differentiating factor.  The telegraph-system in Wildstar tries to blur the difference (I've mentioned this in threads before... they attempted to make it appear to be a hybrid of action and tab-target, when it's actually still tab-target)... since as long as the telegraph is on a target, the dice roll and determine hit/miss/etc... whereas in Tera... if you yourself aren't directly aiming at a target, you miss period... where as in Wildstar, you can be aiming off to the side and still manage to brush a target with the telegraph.  It's like a sniper-rifle compared to a wide-spread shotgun.
 
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"since as long as the telegraph is on a target, the dice roll and determine hit/miss/etc"
 
So WS is tab targeting because of deflect/striketrough...? Ok...
 
"if you yourself aren't directly aiming at a target, you miss period... where as in Wildstar, you can be aiming off to the side and still manage to brush a target with the telegraph."
 
And how do you define "aren't directly aiming at a target"? In TERA you swing swords, those have a cleave, a telegraph basically. It's not like you only hit a target in a 1 centimeter cone, I guess?	
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Bigger emphasis on Tera is the actual need to have to aim to hit your target with a reticule.  Even if you put a red-circle on your target, if you weren't aiming the reticule directly at it, you missed, end of story, no rolling of dice, no saving extra rolls, nothing.  That in itself is the differentiating factor.  The telegraph-system in Wildstar tries to blur the difference (I've mentioned this in threads before... they attempted to make it appear to be a hybrid of action and tab-target, when it's actually still tab-target)... since as long as the telegraph is on a target, the dice roll and determine hit/miss/etc... whereas in Tera... if you yourself aren't directly aiming at a target, you miss period... where as in Wildstar, you can be aiming off to the side and still manage to brush a target with the telegraph.
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"since as long as the telegraph is on a target, the dice roll and determine hit/miss/etc"
 
So WS is tab targeting because of deflect/striketrough...? Ok...
 
"if you yourself aren't directly aiming at a target, you miss period... where as in Wildstar, you can be aiming off to the side and still manage to brush a target with the telegraph."
 
And how do you define "aren't directly aiming at a target"? In TERA you swing swords, those have a cleave, a telegraph basically. It's not like you only hit a target in a 1 centimeter cone, I guess?
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If your typical play session is under an hour then I'm not sure what you expect to get out of an MMO once you cap out level.
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In Tera you still have a reticule (as I showed in the image I just added to my last post)... even with a cleave or a telegraph, if that reticule isn't on your target, you miss.  Whereas in something like Wildstar, your "cleave" has more of a "top-down" cone, where as long as it mildly even touches the target, it still hits.  As stated, "tab-targeting" is more or less a categorization for the games that don't have true action-based aiming... I didn't invent the terminology, I just roll with it.
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So if in TERA you could suddenly put a red circe on someone with tab, it would become a tab targeting game? Because that's more or less the difference between TERA and WS (there are some helping features in WS like auto-face target and such, but it actually makes combat worse, so not sure if anyone uses that).
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Uhhh, most MMOs I've played, classes get imbalanced/nerfed due to PvP, because PvPers QQ that certain attacks, buffs, debuffs, AoEs, etc are "unfair" when it comes to "true PvP comp".  (Even more funny when one considers that the classic squabble-fest for PvP is the belief that every class needs the same exact stat-gear, same exact stat-attacks, same exact class-stats, etc... why not just settle it in Mortal Kombat and call it a day?) :D
 
 
Erm, Wildstar still classifies as a tab-target game FYI.  Just because it might have telegraphs and dodge-rolls, it doesn't differentiate itself at all from tab-targeting.  Only real break-away from tab-targeting is true action-oriented MMOs with real-time aiming and such... like Tera, Fallen Earth, APB, etc. ;)
 
 
The EXACT issue I have with too much PvP emphasis being made on a PVE-CENTRIC game.  PvPers come into a PvE-focused game (like WoW, as Kytar pointed out earlier), complain about the PvP, and the rest of the game gets nerfed from top to bottom to "balance PvP".  As you stated, all those other games have no PvE-focus... so perhaps a game more like ArcheAge would be more fitting for those that want solid PvP-focus, rather than trying to make a PvE game (which was intended by the devs, hence focus on raiding) into a PvP-based game.  Honestly, it'd be kinda' like an MMORPG-aholic going into a MOBA and demanding they add more single-player story-driven quests. :P
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In Tera you still have a reticule (as I showed in the image I just added to my last post)... even with a cleave or a telegraph, if that reticule isn't on your target, you miss.  Whereas in something like Wildstar, your "cleave" has more of a "top-down" cone, where as long as it mildly even touches the target, it still hits.  As stated, "tab-targeting" is more or less a categorization for the games that don't have true action-based aiming... I didn't invent the terminology, I just roll with it.
 
Well, you two go ahead and keep trying to petty-squabble over semantics... didn't realize my word was the Gospel and the world is going to ruins because of my view on the definitions of what IS and ISN'T tab-targeting.  I'm going to go do something more meaningful and I dunno, actually play a game... regardless of whether or not it's tab-target or not. :D  Either way, TOE-MAY-TOE / TOE-MAH-TOE... you have your views on it, I have my own... you're not going to force me to see it your way, and you'll probably never understand my viewpoint either (especially considering some points being made are actually going off the point of tab-targeting all together)... the original point I was making, was it was attempted to be said that Wildstar wasn't effected "LIKE TAB-TARGET GAMES ARE", when Wildstar itself IS a tab-target game.  Have fun with it... peace out. ;)
 
#ListPlusTwo (Got better things to do than to debate such petty, unimportant, and insignificant issues on a message-board to be honest...)
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			The tab targeting argument is getting a bit semantical and ridiculous. There are only a handful of action based mmorpgs out there. Blade and Soul, Wildstar, Tera are all action based even if Wildstar may have a few mechanics like telegraphs that give it a different flavor. Games like ffxiv, wow, and archage are tab targeting where the action is pretty much an illusion. If you are facing the opponent and within distance a checkers match ensures.	
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The tab targeting argument is getting a bit semantical and ridiculous. There are only a handful of action based mmorpgs out there. Blade and Soul, Wildstar, Tera are all action based even if Wildstar may have a few mechanics like telegraphs that give it a different flavor. Games like ffxiv, wow, and archage are tab targeting where the action is pretty much an illusion. If you are facing the opponent and within distance a checkers match ensures.
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The tab targeting argument is getting a bit semantical and ridiculous. There are only a handful of action based mmorpgs out there. Blade and Soul, Wildstar, Tera are all action based even if Wildstar may have a few mechanics like telegraphs that give it a different flavor. Games like ffxiv, wow, and archage are tab targeting where the action is pretty much an illusion. If you are facing the opponent and within distance a checkers match ensures.
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"Exiles vs Dominion both playable factions fighting each other. Players vs Players as the MAIN story...Wheres the PVE-FOCUS?"
 
It's in the whole PvE leveling and raiding, the story of finding and exploring the planet of the ancient eldans. Drusera and all that is the main story. It just so happens that the two factions who are exploring the secrets of Nexus are in war with eachother - so there can be PvP in the game, for those who like it. But that's not the main focus. Compare the number of people who play this game for raids with those who play it for warplots.	
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