126076-wildstar-is-going-to-a-hybrid-free-to-play-model-in-august-what-are-your-thoughts-page-9

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Why ya gotta be like that? Can't we just all get along?
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Not sure why you continually attack the poster instead of the topic. Chill, maybe?
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Haven't you spent almost the entirety of your time here telling people to "go find some other game" if they don't like your hardcoriness?
I have every reason to expect that if you think a MMORPG-style game is built to your preferences, I will not enjoy it.
I've already paid for one game designed to your preferred playstyle, why would I pay for another one?
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Lethality-endorsed, huh?
 
*crosses Crowfall off the list of games to watch*
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What topic is there? The F2P discussion or the part where you break out the universally derided tune of how players are all to blame and only now that they've all finally changed their minds can they see how the unchanging brilliance of original WildStar is right for them? Or the one where you make a claim that literally took me 15 seconds of searching in my inbox to disprove?
 
And give me a break, like I'm the only person who calls you on this stuff. It isn't any more true here than when you post the exact same thing on other forums and get called out for it there as well.
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It's just that I never make it a personal thing... but everyone seems to make it personal here, against me.
 
I am just a believer of sticking to the game plan/vision. Wether it's WildStar or Crowfall or whatever, I buy into them because of what they are.So when things start changing or players demand change, that's where I usually pipe in. On a personal level, it doesn't bother me at all what you like or don't like.
 
For the record, I'm into Crowfall for the economic aspects, with Raph Koster in the design chair. I'm anxious to see how that plays out.
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			More like your negative opinion of Crowfall is uncalled for! Have you learned nothing from these forums if not to take his posts with a giant hunk of salt? If it were aimed at a small niche it wouldn't be launching with sub optional. The key tenet of the #hardcore movement is to keep out the filthy casuals.	
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I have a pretty thick skin and can take the attacks, but I'd rather see you pick apart the topic of my posts... tell me why I'm wrong... lets debate ideas.
 
We're all passionate and knowledgeable MMO fans here, albeit with different preferences, which is why we tend to carry on a bit more than we should. Can we just go forward with focus on the games, not each other. I promise to do my part.
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In order to fund hardcore and niche content, you must either have
1.  the means to pay for the game from start to finish, regardless of the number of subscribers
2.  content that appeals to people that pay the bills
3.  or more expensive game price
 
Wildstar hyped the game to the hardcore / niche crowd, but failed to deliver in performance (bugs etc), while charging a casual pricetag.
 
Since 1 and 3 aren't options, they're choosing option 2.
 
You can't have hardcore players without casuals, it's required by the definition.	
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Perhaps they know that most of their remaining customers *are* the hardcore that their intentions were to grab in the first place? Now, it's just a matter of attracting more of them slowly but surely.
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			So, if this does prove to be true, does this mean C.R.E.D.D. will be removed from the game?	
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So, if this does prove to be true, does this mean C.R.E.D.D. will be removed from the game?
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Next to zero weight? Hardly. Shall we run down the list?
There's still a strong and completely unnecessary correlation between progression and the size of the group you run content with. There's no easy raids, no hard solo content, and no plans to provide either anywhere on the horizon.
Even the new contracts system restricts the best tier of contracts to either 1) large group content that requires you to join a raid group for credit, or 2) steps required for attunement.
Raiding gear is still part of the BiS PvP gearset.
The queue system is still a complete joke and there's still no global LFG channel.
Attunement's still there unless you buy a Pristine Genesis Key--which you can't just do through the AH/CX, you have to either cozy up to a raider who has one or get gouged on the /trade channel.
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Two of the tier III contracts are beating a veteran Adventure and beating a veteran Dungeon. Those are the steps in attunement Yasfan was refering to. Keep in mind you can't do those solo. By definition, you need a group.
As for requiring a raid, I imagine it's the fact that the contract credit for the events is a bit wobbly. Sometimes it's not very clear why you didn't get it (though they are changing it to be 'just participate' for the Star-comm one), and if you want to be reasonably sure that you will get credit, joining a raid is theoretically the best bet.
 
There's also been some drama regarding the player-driven LFG channel. Apparently someone was kicked out of it for reasons I I do not particularly care about, but it does show a problem with it: players who control it can deny access to other players for whatever reason and, since it's player controlled, they are not 'legally' bound to actually give reasons for doing so. It's their channel. Hence why an official game-wide LFG channel is wanted by some.	
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So, if this does prove to be true, does this mean C.R.E.D.D. will be removed from the game?
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The honest answer is: no one knows.
 
This ENTIRE THREAD is basically one, gigantic, circular, rambling, pointless exercise in "No one knows."
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What I find a bit useless and what others are getting at is yes, this beaten dead horse has been going on for 64 pages and I don't believe anything particularly new on the specific topic has come up that hasn't come up in the last 60 pages already.
 
The reason we feel we need to post is: the thread itself is harmful in many ways when the first thing a person sees getting on the WS forums is this thread with its horrendously long title and page count with a big star and red tag calling it HOT, only a fraction of who will come into the thread and ask if it's true (while the people who do post here give the impression that it is absolutely 100% true, which it is not) or will browse enough to see the posts pointing out that it is mere rumors at this point.	
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What I find a bit useless and what others are getting at is yes, this beaten dead horse has been going on for 64 pages and I don't believe anything particularly new on the specific topic has come up that hasn't come up in the last 60 pages already.
 
The reason we feel we need to post is: the thread itself is harmful in many ways when the first thing a person sees getting on the WS forums is this thread with its horrendously long title and page count with a big star and red tag calling it HOT, only a fraction of who will come into the thread and ask if it's true (while the people who do post here give the impression that it is absolutely 100% true, which it is not) or will browse enough to see the posts pointing out that it is mere rumors at this point.
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One way to fix that Carbine could lock this thread down and say hey there is no way we are going F2P or B2P
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Two of the tier III contracts are beating a veteran Adventure and beating a veteran Dungeon. Those are the steps in attunement Yasfan was refering to. Keep in mind you can't do those solo. By definition, you need a group.
As for requiring a raid, I imagine it's the fact that the contract credit for the events is a bit wobbly. Sometimes it's not very clear why you didn't get it (though they are changing it to be 'just participate' for the Star-comm one), and if you want to be reasonably sure that you will get credit, joining a raid is theoretically the best bet.
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I wish it were that easy for them, but saying an outright statement like that if they ever do wind up doing it down the road (in August, a year from now, even 2) will immediately cause people to point at that statement and call them liars, and a PR nightmare happens once more. That's why they won't talk about patch releases or expansions as an exact date unless they absolutely can guarantee that it will happen (see: Blizzard's "soon") UNLESS something drastically goes wrong, like deploying it would cause an entire system failure and/or memory wipe. People will always nail companies to the wall if they ever do something they said they would not do, or do not do something they said they would do, whether or not the circumstances have drastically changed.
 
I'm pretty sure they also don't want to curb constructive discussions since too strict rules do not happy players make, and should they ever consider (or are already considering) a model swap, they've gotten a lot of feedback and opinions from this thread. Though it's run its course at this point.	
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The reason we feel we need to post is: the thread itself is harmful in many ways when the first thing a person sees getting on the WS forums is this thread with its horrendously long title and page count with a big star and red tag calling it HOT, only a fraction of who will come into the thread and ask if it's true (while the people who do post here give the impression that it is absolutely 100% true, which it is not) or will browse enough to see the posts pointing out that it is mere rumors at this point.
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To shorten the above:
 
We're trying to
a.) remind the folks posting here that keeping this thread AT THE TOP (I barely post in here til I feel like I need to) is harmful, with necessary emphasis on remind because I want to make it clear that while we unfortunately bump this thread up, it won't fade unless we can dissuade folks from continuing or it gets locked, and it's been made clear it will not fade on its own given its persistence, with its mere presence as the most popular current thread. Start a new thread title that is not "SKY IS FALLING F2P/B2P IS COMING" under a much cleaner title of "if it went F2P what would you like to see"
b.) the fraction that does see it knows that it is a rumor (as mentioned above) and will not continue to spread it as it has in this thread, as though it were fact, largely because folks will most likely peruse the first 2-3 pages and the last few pages, or more likely the first and last page.	
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- Carbine has acknowledged the desire for more challenging solo content and has mentioned in the past releasing shiphands of greater difficulty.
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We're trying to
a.) remind the folks posting here that keeping this thread AT THE TOP (I barely post in here til I feel like I need to) is harmful, with necessary emphasis on remind because I want to make it clear that while we unfortunately bump this thread up, it won't fade unless we can dissuade folks from continuing or it gets locked, and it's been made clear it will not fade on its own given its persistence, with its mere presence as the most popular current thread. Start a new thread title that is not "SKY IS FALLING F2P/B2P IS COMING" under a much cleaner title of "if it went F2P what would you like to see"
b.) the fraction that does see it knows that it is a rumor (as mentioned above) and will not continue to spread it as it has in this thread, as though it were fact, largely because folks will most likely peruse the first 2-3 pages and the last few pages, or more likely the first and last page.
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To shorten the above:
 
We're trying to
a.) remind the folks posting here that keeping this thread AT THE TOP (I barely post in here til I feel like I need to) is harmful, with necessary emphasis on remind because I want to make it clear that while we unfortunately bump this thread up, it won't fade unless we can dissuade folks from continuing or it gets locked, and it's been made clear it will not fade on its own given its persistence, with its mere presence as the most popular current thread. Start a new thread title that is not "SKY IS FALLING F2P/B2P IS COMING" under a much cleaner title of "if it went F2P what would you like to see"
b.) the fraction that does see it knows that it is a rumor (as mentioned above) and will not continue to spread it as it has in this thread, as though it were fact, largely because folks will most likely peruse the first 2-3 pages and the last few pages, or more likely the first and last page.
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a.) If it doesn't transition into a new model, that's a significant number of people who have been scared needlessly away by the rumor that is being touted as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. It is still a rumor at this stage, and until Carbine or NCSoft comes out with a statement confirming or denying this rumor, neither of us know which is true. You can call it long overdue, you can cheer at the thought of it, but don't lie to others that this is something that has been undoubtedly confirmed. And I want to mention that I mean you in the general sense.
 
b.) I'm very well aware. We've had threads like this for ages, we've had gaming journalism explode about it or spread rumors about a model change before any of this happened. These rumors were exceptionally well-timed and that's what has made it explode to the point it has that no other thread or rumor has before it, and naturally it was an inevitable rumor given the quarterly report. However, we don't need to fan the flames. I'm aware as I am sure you are that not everyone goes to check out IGN or MMORPG to find out if a game is worth it or not - they might just take a peek at the forums here. Even if that's just 1000 people a month, I'd rather convince as many of them as possible to come here than make them believe that there is an already impending model change confirmed by Carbine or NCSoft which may or may not dissuade them from purchasing and subscribing to this game. In turn, maybe they'll convince their friends to give it a try, and the chain continues.
 
Even if that doesn't happen, at least we've given it a gosh-darn good try by not throwing rumors at them that "F2P/B2P is coming." Which is really beginning to sound like a Game of Thrones reference at this point.	
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a.) If it doesn't transition into a new model, that's a significant number of people who have been scared needlessly away by the rumor that is being touted as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. It is still a rumor at this stage, and until Carbine or NCSoft comes out with a statement confirming or denying this rumor, neither of us know which is true. You can call it long overdue, you can cheer at the thought of it, but don't lie to others that this is something that has been undoubtedly confirmed. And I want to mention that I mean you in the general sense.
 
b.) I'm very well aware. We've had threads like this for ages, we've had gaming journalism explode about it or spread rumors about a model change before any of this happened. These rumors were exceptionally well-timed and that's what has made it explode to the point it has that no other thread or rumor has before it, and naturally it was an inevitable rumor given the quarterly report. However, we don't need to fan the flames. I'm aware as I am sure you are that not everyone goes to check out IGN or MMORPG to find out if a game is worth it or not - they might just take a peek at the forums here. Even if that's just 1000 people a month, I'd rather convince as many of them as possible to come here than make them believe that there is an already impending model change confirmed by Carbine or NCSoft which may or may not dissuade them from purchasing and subscribing to this game. In turn, maybe they'll convince their friends to give it a try, and the chain continues.
 
Even if that doesn't happen, at least we've given it a gosh-darn good try by not throwing rumors at them that "F2P/B2P is coming." Which is really beginning to sound like a Game of Thrones reference at this point.
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a.) If it doesn't transition into a new model, 
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I will also note that in addition to his comments about veteran adventures and dungeons, the Veteran dungeon contract explicitly requires a bronze medal and not just completion. So it is literally identical to completing the attunement requirement for at least one dungeon. 
 
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Suddenly I remembered why I avoid threads like these like the plague.
 
Final point:
 
They could just as likely shut this game down as they could shift to a new model.
 
Enjoy your thread ladies and gents, consequences be damned.	
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I hate to break it to you, but it's going to transition to a new model so the rest of this point really isn't all that relevant.
 
 
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I absolutely believe that the guy in the reddit thread is a Wildstar employee - here's why:
 
Recently two very well known streamers (one being Towelliee, spelling?, and DCarter, the only real consistent W* streamer on Twitch) both went to Carbine Studios and played the demo of Blade and Soul.  This confirms what the alleged W* employee stated as being true, that NCSoft currently have the beta version of B&S.  I was sold once I read that.  Personally I think going F2P is a good thing for the game because the F2P model they are suggesting (nothing like SWToR's) is a good one, so go for it I say.	
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One way to fix that Carbine could lock this thread down and say hey there is no way we are going F2P or B2P
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So you think F2P rumors are harmful eh? 
 
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a.) If it doesn't transition into a new model, that's a significant number of people who have been scared needlessly away by the rumor that is being touted as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. It is still a rumor at this stage, and until Carbine or NCSoft comes out with a statement confirming or denying this rumor, neither of us know which is true. You can call it long overdue, you can cheer at the thought of it, but don't lie to others that this is something that has been undoubtedly confirmed. And I want to mention that I mean you in the general sense.
 
b.) I'm very well aware. We've had threads like this for ages, we've had gaming journalism explode about it or spread rumors about a model change before any of this happened. These rumors were exceptionally well-timed and that's what has made it explode to the point it has that no other thread or rumor has before it, and naturally it was an inevitable rumor given the quarterly report. However, we don't need to fan the flames. I'm aware as I am sure you are that not everyone goes to check out IGN or MMORPG to find out if a game is worth it or not - they might just take a peek at the forums here. Even if that's just 1000 people a month, I'd rather convince as many of them as possible to come here than make them believe that there is an already impending model change confirmed by Carbine or NCSoft which may or may not dissuade them from purchasing and subscribing to this game. In turn, maybe they'll convince their friends to give it a try, and the chain continues.
 
Even if that doesn't happen, at least we've given it a gosh-darn good try by not throwing rumors at them that "F2P/B2P is coming." Which is really beginning to sound like a Game of Thrones reference at this point.
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 I will also note that in addition to his comments about veteran adventures and dungeons, the Veteran dungeon contract explicitly requires a bronze medal and not just completion. So it is literally identical to completing the attunement requirement for at least one dungeon.
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At this point if you pay attention to social media ANYWHERE you will believe WS is transitioning to a F2P model. This thread isn't making it any worse. See below reports:
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Suddenly I remembered why I avoid threads like these like the plague.
 
Final point:
 
They could just as likely shut this game down as they could shift to a new model.
 
Enjoy your thread ladies and gents, consequences be damned.
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Those aren't reports. Those are tabloid articles all pointing to the same unconfirmed source. They want clicks, they're not providing new information.
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Those aren't reports. Those are tabloid articles all pointing to the same unconfirmed source. They want clicks, they're not providing new information.
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Those aren't reports. Those are tabloid articles all pointing to the same unconfirmed source. They want clicks, they're not providing new information.
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If there was no truth to the matter it would be a simple matter for a dev to come out and say with confidence that they were staying with P2P model. That has not yet happened, and you have to wonder why. 
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It does not matter whether it's confirmed information or not all that matters is what people will believe. Right now, virtually everyone in the MMO universe expects Wildstar to go F2P ASAP. If there was no truth to the matter it would be a simple matter for a dev to come out and say with confidence that they were staying with P2P model. That has not yet happened, and you have to wonder why.
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There's no need to wonder why at all... PR does not move to internet rumors. Responding in *any way* to this is not doable, true or not. They can't start gracing rumors with a response, because then it's like negotiating with terrorists.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6QZn9xiuOE
 
Don't you know how sweet and wonderful life can be?
I'm askin' you baby to get it on with me, ooo ooo
I ain't gonna worry, I ain't gonna push 
I won't push you baby
So come on, come on, come on, come on baby
Stop beatin' round the bush, hey	
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Not true at all. Like I said in my last post,
 
 
 
Oh, and guess what? I can actually PROVE that NCSoft doesn't have a policy against denying rumors:
 
http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/21/guild-wars-2-denies-expansion-date-rumors-addresses-peaceful-wvw-bug/
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			This topic is kind of like 2 people standing outside. The clouds have been getting dark for the last few hours, the wind has been picking up, and it's starting to thunder/lightning. One guy says "it's going to rain", and the other guy says "you have no proof". The second guy is technically correct, because the dark clouds, the wind, and the thunder/lightning are not actually "proof", just signs of what is coming. But when the first drop falls, the first guy is proven right. F2P is definitely coming. Sure, we do not have any officially confirmed proof yet, but we have plenty of common sense signs. And when that announcement does finally come, every person who said it was coming will be proven right. And like rain on parched land, F2P will breath new life into this game. Some people may not like "getting wet", but the results will be better for the game in the long run.	
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And when that announcement does finally come, every person who said it was coming will be proven right.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU
 
Here's a little song I wrote 
You might want to sing it note for note 
Don't worry be happy 
In every life we have some trouble
When you worry you make it double 
Don't worry, be happy
(Don't worry, be happy now)	
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So what?
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So what?
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So that issue will be settled. Whether people like it or not, once the official announcement comes, no one can say there is no "proof" anymore. And then a new age will dawn for Wildstar:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjxSCAalsBE
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IF an announcement is coming, it was coming without any internet detectives or forum warriors uttering a word. I guess that's a nice way to say all of these posts are useless.
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			I don't see why it has to be a big discussion once there isn't an official statement about it. This has been a 66 page thread of speculation and arguing if f2p/b2p would be good for wildstar. I'm sure when if it plans to go b2p in August, they'll start some discussion about it on the forum before it happens.	
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
 
We've known each other for so long
Your heart's been aching but you're too shy to say it
Inside we both know what's been going on
We know the game and we're gonna play it
 
+1 when you click the link :)	
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IF an announcement is coming, it was coming without any internet detectives or forum warriors uttering a word. I guess that's a nice way to say all of these posts are useless.
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Oh, I agree the announcement is not dependent upon anything anyone says in this thread. Just like the rain in my example is not dependent upon anyone "calling it" before it happens. But in both cases, the common sense signs are there, heralding it's arrival.
 
As far as this thread, it's posts, and whether they are "useless" or have any point, that is completely subjective, so your opinion on that matter is no more right or wrong than anyone else's opinion. However, since you DO think that this thread is "useless", yet you continue to read and post in it anyway, you are demonstrating by your statements + actions that your time is not worth much.
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			Well if we didn't have this we would those lots of random daily threads of people complaining about low pop or lowbie ques that would inevitably devolve into F2P threads. Now we have it all contained! Plus, I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds this thread amusing. It's like a bonding experience. 	
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Well if we didn't have this we would those lots of random daily threads of people complaining about low pop or lowbie ques that would inevitably devolve into F2P threads. Now we have it all contained! Plus, I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds this thread amusing. It's like a bonding experience. 
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This topic is kind of like 2 people standing outside. The clouds have been getting dark for the last few hours, the wind has been picking up, and it's starting to thunder/lightning. One guy says "it's going to rain", and the other guy says "you have no proof". The second guy is technically correct, because the dark clouds, the wind, and the thunder/lightning are not actually "proof", just signs of what is coming. But when the first drop falls, the first guy is proven right. F2P is definitely coming. Sure, we do not have any officially confirmed proof yet, but we have plenty of common sense signs. And when that announcement does finally come, every person who said it was coming will be proven right. And like rain on parched land, F2P will breath new life into this game. Some people may not like "getting wet", but the results will be better for the game in the long run.
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at this point, the forums are almost deserted. so lets at least be cool with each others. good, bad, ugly, we're all that's left so we better get used to each others.
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This Topic is more like a 2 children thinking about buying a ball to play football during their vacation and you come and say  : "Even if I'm not a meteorologist, I'm sure it ll be raining the day after tomorrow until the end of your vacation, but that s great you ll be able to play scrabble."
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So what?
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This Topic is more like ...
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This Topic is more like a 2 children thinking about buying a ball to play football during their vacation and you come and say  : "Even if I'm not a meteorologist, I'm sure it ll be raining the day after tomorrow until the end of your vacation, but that s great you ll be able to play scrabble."
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Now we have it all contained! Plus, I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds this thread amusing. It's like a bonding experience. 
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			I vote for: "Forum Wars: Fixing the Internet. Chronicles of Free-to-Play Part I."	
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No, this topic is MORE like *insert something different from what you just said*
 
See, I can do it too. Yay, so much fun.
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I vote for: "Forum Wars: Fixing the Internet. Chronicles of Free-to-Play Part I."
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Yeah !  I wanted to do the "This Game is gonna be F2P BECAUSE *insert any thought even if there is no link with Wildstar" but you already did it during the last 65 pages....
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On an aside, I was listening to a massivelyOP podcast today and on the topic of bad game communities we came up because we have a reputation for being "A terrible bunch of fanboys who will shoot down and flame anyone who says anything negative about the game." Can't say I disagree. There used to be a bunch of threads where someone says, "I don't like X" and then the fan boys poured in and said "X is great you should like it you must be an idiot" 
 
lol	
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On an aside, I was listening to a massivelyOP podcast today and on the topic of bad game communities we came up because we have a reputation for being "A terrible bunch of fanboys who will shoot down and flame anyone who says anything negative about the game." Can't say I disagree. There used to be a bunch of threads where someone says, "I don't like X" and then the fan boys poured in and said "X is great you should like it you must be an idiot" 
 
lol
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On an aside, I was listening to a massivelyOP podcast today and on the topic of bad game communities we came up because we have a reputation for being "A terrible bunch of fanboys who will shoot down and flame anyone who says anything negative about the game." Can't say I disagree. There used to be a bunch of threads where someone says, "I don't like X" and then the fan boys poured in and said "X is great you should like it you must be an idiot" 
 
lol
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Very true. The sad thing is a lot of the biggest fanboys jumped ship when the game was sinking and left the community with a terrible rep that they helped create. I've actually been very pleased with the community as a whole now outside of a few incidents here and there. For the most part people are very helpful. When I was running the vet dungeons for attunement (finished today woot woot) I only ever got one group that had a jerk in it. Most of the time people are very helpful and friendly.
 
Gotta wonder how many of those fanboys will come back with a business model change. Honestly I don't think too many of them would like where the game is now; it's caters more to the filthy casual now than it ever has!
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In all fairness, this is true of several games I play. Not that that is an excuse, but it is not a problem specific to this community.
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			Que?!	
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Sure, but it's a question of degree. I don't think I've ever seen a game where there's not a core of white knights, but rarely have I seen them get so much traction as they have here. I suspect that this is in large part because this game has paid so little attention--whether intentionally or not, I couldn't say--to the various game tools and elements that allow people to work around them.
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Sure, but it's a question of degree. I don't think I've ever seen a game where there's not a core of white knights, but rarely have I seen them get so much traction as they have here. I suspect that this is in large part because this game has paid so little attention--whether intentionally or not, I couldn't say--to the various game tools and elements that allow people to work around them.
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Sure, but it's a question of degree. I don't think I've ever seen a game where there's not a core of white knights, but rarely have I seen them get so much traction as they have here. I suspect that this is in large part because this game has paid so little attention--whether intentionally or not, I couldn't say--to the various game tools and elements that allow people to work around them.
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Honestly, I left the game originally because it was the "elite" attitude.  I've thought about coming back now that some things have changed, but I'm still a bit gun shy.
 
As for the news of the game going F2P is this confirmed or just a confirmed rumor?	
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As for the news of the game going F2P is this confirmed or just a confirmed rumor?
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			I'm amazed you guys can keep posting new stuff in this thread after 1330 replies O.O	
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I'm amazed you guys can keep posting new stuff in this thread after 1330 replies O.O
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I'm amazed you guys can keep posting new stuff in this thread after 1330 replies O.O
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Really we just keep going round and round like a record. Yes. Just like a record that spins right round. I'm glad it isn't locked up yet though because there is the off chance that someone new will see it, and they should know how crazy we are.
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I'm amazed you guys can keep posting new stuff in this thread after 1330 replies O.O
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If anything in this thread amazes you, you must be new to MMO forums.
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Sure, but it's a question of degree. I don't think I've ever seen a game where there's not a core of white knights, but rarely have I seen them get so much traction as they have here. I suspect that this is in large part because this game has paid so little attention--whether intentionally or not, I couldn't say--to the various game tools and elements that allow people to work around them.
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Haven't read a single thing in this thread lol. Too much of a waste of time xD
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stuff
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So yeah. Go ahead and generalize if you want I guess. But I have always both adored this game and recognized its faults, and that has nothing to do with my desire for this game to remain P2P.
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This is ridiculous.
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It's not that this mindset doesn't exist in every game--it definitely does. But it usually shows up in the form of developers doing things in spite of this subset of players, not in support of them. Because usually, the game's management understands that if the only people you let play have to show enough commitment to be community-approved, there aren't enough of them to pay the bills.
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The people that funded, managed and created this game have tons of experience doing so. They have access to plenty of market data and proprietary research. They know that there are enough potential customers in the target audience or they wouldn't have targeted it.
 
While it doesn't have 5 million subscribers, perhaps... just perhaps... they see enough data that their target market IS out there are intend on pursuing it rather than change the content into every other game.
 
Don't keep assuming that more casual players are the answer... You need more dedicated players. Casual free to play is never going to be the right answer.
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How do you reconcile this with recent content (e.g., contracts, pets, new adventure, vet shiphands, pvp changes) as well as live streams they had in the past where they explicitly stated they realized they needed to make the game appeal to a wider audience before making marketing pushes?
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The people that funded, managed and created this game have tons of experience doing so. They have access to plenty of market data and proprietary research. They know that there are enough potential customers in the target audience or they wouldn't have targeted it.
 
While it doesn't have 5 million subscribers, perhaps... just perhaps... they see enough data that their target market IS out there are intend on pursuing it rather than change the content into every other game.
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			Like I have said before...I would love to take with me the action combat, toons animation and the toons look INTO the wow universe, AND the Stormtallon dungeon. THEN it would have been a  perfect game:)	
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The people that funded, managed and created this game have tons of experience doing so. They have access to plenty of market data and proprietary research. They know that there are enough potential customers in the target audience or they wouldn't have targeted it.
 
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This is the big thing for me.  Months before release we were told about multiple endgame progression.  Gear for the solo and small group guy.  I certainly didn't see that at launch.  I resubbed a few days ago just to check things out and so far I'm not too impressed with this latest drop.  But I'm going to give it a few more days.
 
Carbine wanted to "do World of Warcraft right".  But a lot of their ideas were buried too far in the past.  I'm sure people have fond memories of big hair, parachute pants and Frankie Says Relax shirts but I don't see anyone trying to do the 80s right.
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Yes, I do agree (as does Carbine) that they didn't deliver the solo and small group elder content at launch... which was super disappointing because it was a mantra they repeated over and over throughout development. But they are finally getting to that with things like the Contract system.
 
Carbine did improve in every way on WoW, which is one of the reasons I love it. But they also changed enough to make it modern... It's really the perfect theme park game.
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Yes, I do agree (as does Carbine) that they didn't deliver the solo and small group elder content at launch... which was super disappointing because it was a mantra they repeated over and over throughout development. But they are finally getting to that with things like the Contract system.
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Being sent out to "Interrupt 30 Telegraphs", and if you do it 100 times you get a piece of purple iLevel 65 gear with deliberately poor stat allocation, is not "delivering solo and small group content" any more than being told to do Hellrose Bowl 100 times for the same thing is "delivering a new raid tier". 
 
But nice try.
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Being sent out to "Interrupt 30 Telegraphs", and if you do it 100 times you get a piece of purple iLevel 65 gear with deliberately poor stat allocation, is not "delivering solo and small group content" any more than being told to do Hellrose Bowl 100 times for the same thing is "delivering a new raid tier". 
 
But nice try.
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Or you could look at it another way: way to provide players with bonuses and incentives that fit in with whatever content they're already doing that can help them rune their gear easily, and get random rewards, cash and reputation bonuses much more easily.
 
I get you don't like people blindly defending this game, but come on.
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Super kill is easily do-able solo or in group content, as is interrupts. I don't see them as a key 'end', they are more of an incidental means to an end that I can fulfil whilst pursuing a higher goal: tier III contracts, or imbuements, quests, helping guildies etc.
 
Irrespective of this, the issue of a few (arguably) wobbly contracts is not a serious threat to the Contract system as a whole, which is pretty much a great addition to the game - certain loot tweaks aside!	
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Being sent out to "Interrupt 30 Telegraphs", and if you do it 100 times you get a piece of purple iLevel 65 gear with deliberately poor stat allocation, is not "delivering solo and small group content" any more than being told to do Hellrose Bowl 100 times for the same thing is "delivering a new raid tier". 
 
But nice try.
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Super kill is easily do-able solo or in group content, as is interrupts.
 
Irrespective of this, the issue of a few (arguably) wobbly contracts is not a serious threat to the Contract system as a whole, which is pretty much a great addition to the game - certain loot tweaks aside!
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Ok, I never said it was difficult, just that it doesn't click as well with normal content. If I'm blowing up mobs they aren't going to present the opportunity for an interrupt. And if I do interrupt them I need to wait until it's off cooldown to interrupt again, hence the reason why I said it slows things down. It actually encourages me to spend more time doing something than I would spend without the contract, so it doesn't provide extra benefits for doing the same thing I would already be doing. And as a level 1 contract the reward is extremely minimal. I'd like to see it moved into level 2 to account for the time it takes.
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I believe the purpose of those contracts is too simply combine them with the dungeon one or shiphand one where you're bound to get multi kills, primes and interupts.
Doing them alone, then yes they are a serious slow down.
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Being sent out to "Interrupt 30 Telegraphs", and if you do it 100 times you get a piece of purple iLevel 65 gear with deliberately poor stat allocation, is not "delivering solo and small group content" any more than being told to do Hellrose Bowl 100 times for the same thing is "delivering a new raid tier". 
 
But nice try.
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For what it's worth, super kill blends quite well with the hellrose seeds.  At least on Exile side.  If you go over the bridge and then off to the left, there are a number of 3 packs in close proximity.  Just pull 2-3 packs at a time and bingo bango... super kill.  
 
Also Fragment Zero would be a perfect choice.
 
I usually skip the interrupting one.	
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For what it's worth, super kill blends quite well with the hellrose seeds. At least on Exile side. If you go over the bridge and then off to the left, there are a number of 3 packs in close proximity. Just pull 2-3 packs at a time and bingo bango... super kill. 
 
Also Fragment Zero would be a perfect choice.
 
I usually skip the interrupting one.
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			Haha my husband and I just went out and found a pair of mobs for the interrupt telegraph thing. Then I just healed us through the damage while we kept the mobs alive long enough to each get 30 interrupts. XD	
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Haha my husband and I just went out and found a pair of mobs for the interrupt telegraph thing. Then I just healed us through the damage while we kept the mobs alive long enough to each get 30 interrupts. XD
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To be fair (while I agree with our view on many things) the contract system is great. It provides additional incentives on top of content you already want to do, perhaps giving you just the extra nudge to do things you don't want to do as much....end result is higher engagement in the content that is there, more benefits to you as a player, and a system that extends that content life for the right reasons.
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Oh, I agree with you about the system being a good thing. As a direct result of it, people are going out into the open world and doing events that have been languishing because they require more people than will normally be available for them like Scorchwing and other zone events. And it provides a way of aligning people's activities in time. Good things, all.
 
But what it isn't is solo and small-group progression. That stops at Veteran Shiphands and OMNIcore 1, both of which are ferociously uninteresting in terms of gearing.
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That stops at Veteran Shiphands and OMNIcore 1, both of which are ferociously uninteresting in terms of gearing.
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Are you suggesting these things need to give superior quality gear (I disagree), or more unique costumes et al?
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Oh, I agree with you about the system being a good thing. As a direct result of it, people are going out into the open world and doing events that have been languishing because they require more people than will normally be available for them like Scorchwing and other zone events. And it provides a way of aligning people's activities in time. Good things, all.
 
But what it isn't is solo and small-group progression. That stops at Veteran Shiphands and OMNIcore 1, both of which are ferociously uninteresting in terms of gearing.
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My guess is that Carbine originally wanted this kind of progression, but they realized it wasn't something they had the resources to do. I think it would be very time consuming and not a lot of people would do it.
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I've never seen any indication they thought this.  The sense I got was: "Solo players hate grinding and dailies!?  Who knew?  Back to the drawing board!"
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omnicore is an oddity and part of an older design philosophy (that got rightfully wrecked).
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Honestly the only things wrong with Omnicore were forced solo play, the inability to skip the dialogue (minor and I believe fixed now?), and it didn't have sufficient reward.
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Ah I see...in that case, yes. I wish they would deliver on that front. My suggestion has always been that there should be 3 classes of gear to solve the problem of disparity between pvpers, pve(world)ers, and pve(raid)ers. Just slap pvp power, world power, raid power on gear and call it a day. If the items levels are the same for misc stats, but the power stat is what improves your performance, it allows for you to acquire the best gear from doing your chosen content while also ensuring that it's easier for someone to start out in another field without needing an entire new set of gear beforehand.
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Honestly the only things wrong with Omnicore were forced solo play, the inability to skip the dialogue (minor and I believe fixed now?), and it didn't have sufficient reward.
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Honestly the only things wrong with Omnicore were forced solo play, the inability to skip the dialogue (minor and I believe fixed now?), and it didn't have sufficient reward.
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Skipping the dialogue and the forced solo play would be a big inconvenience if Omnicore-1 had any place at all in the end-game progression. But it doesn't. It's just kind of there as a 10 Elder Gem bonus that grants a piece of underwhelming gear at the end. There's no reason to do it more than once per account.
 
Personally, I think that if it had a bunch of possible decor drops like the new daily in the Defile I'd run it more often. And by 'more often' I mean 'more than the two times I did'.
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
 
Actually, Gaffney went out of his way to talk about how the solo player had a home in the Wildstar endgame. Check out here and here. 
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Skipping the dialogue and the forced solo play would be a big inconvenience if Omnicore-1 had any place at all in the end-game progression. But it doesn't. It's just kind of there as a 10 Elder Gem bonus that grants a piece of underwhelming gear at the end. There's no reason to do it more than once per account.
 
Personally, I think that if it had a bunch of possible decor drops like the new daily in the Defile I'd run it more often. And by 'more often' I mean 'more than the two times I did'.
 
 
 
 
And true to his word, Carbine delivered...! Wait, no, they didn't.
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And true to his word, Carbine delivered...! Wait, no, they didn't.
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thats almost all of it, right ?
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Actually, Gaffney went out of his way to talk about how the solo player had a home in the Wildstar endgame. Check out here and here. 
 
 
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omnicore is an oddity and part of an older design philosophy (that got rightfully wrecked).
i have to agree with what Slyjeff said at this point. i don't think we'll ever see that kind of stuff again.
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unfortunately, turned out to be all talk, not actual endgame. I find it very perplexing. They knew how many people played solo, they talked about how that demographic was under catered to in the MMO market, they talked about how dailies were not fun....
 
and they still royally screwed up.
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I mean cmon, this is Gaffney, the guy who said in an interview "We wanted to do world of warcarft right"(paraphrase)
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That's really what most players wanted, too. And they delivered.
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No wonder this game has more subs than WoW. After all, this is WoW done right!
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No wonder this game has more subs than WoW. After all, this is WoW done right! 
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Summer 2014: Wildstar launches 
Summer 2015: WoW loses 3 million subs 
 
We did it boys
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No wonder this game has more subs than WoW. After all, this is WoW done right! 
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{| class="blockquote"
Summer 2014: Wildstar launches 
Summer 2015: WoW loses 3 million subs 
 
We did it boys 
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unfortunately, turned out to be all talk, not actual endgame. I find it very perplexing. They knew how many people played solo, they talked about how that demographic was under catered to in the MMO market, they talked about how dailies were not fun....
 
and they still royally screwed up.
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I don't want to get into an argument of which game is objectively better. I personally do believe that WS is a better game, because the things it offers are more important to me.
 
However, WoW does deliver something that WS doesn't, and that is pretty important to the genre: a bigger social pool. This has nothing to do with the quality of combat, fights, awards, or anything in the game. It's just how it developed over time. But you cannot deny the VALUE of having a huge social player base in a genre that is primarily identified by the words "massive" and "multiplayer".
 
This is one sad fact of the genre, no matter how good you make all the other aspects of the game, you'll never be able to compete with WoW on that aspect, and so you are always appealing to the segment of the player base who has decided that the massive social aspect is less important than other elements. That makes it an uphill battle for any game.	
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I just got the official announcement about the Free to Play transition!
 
Go to their Facebook page for more details.	
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Hey guys, we do have an official thread here for this announcement, as such I'm going to lock this and request all conversation please be kept to the main thread now. 
 
Thank you
- Team WildStar 	
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I just got the official announcement about the Free to Play transition!
 
Go to their Facebook page for more details.
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