Report 602

Report #602
Skillset: Crow Skill: Squall
 Org: Spiritsingers Status: Completed May 2011
Furies' Decision:
Changed to 2p outside of Crowform, 1p inside.
Problem: Unlike its counter abilities of Scissorflip(5p) and Whirlwind(3p)
Squall in its current form allows Crow users to repel enemies and allies from
the room with no cost to them besides a short loss of balance resulting in
dispersing large groups with little effort or loss. While repelling allies as
well as enemies is its only downfall, I believe it should come with a power cost
like the other abilities of its nature.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Add a 5p power cost to Squall, 3p in Crowform.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Add a 5p power cost to Squall, 3p in Crowform and
 have it strike personal enemies only and work in
 distorted areas.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: Add a 4p power cost to Squall, 2p in Crowform.
Player Comments:
---[Xenthos on 4/21 @ 21:56 writes]:
This skill is just fine in its current format. It does not go through walls.
You cannot use it with your group or it messes you up. We do not need another
carbon-copy of existing skills (gee, doesn't that make the game so interesting
when everything is the same?) and the reason is has no power cost is because it
hits your allies. Further, scissor and such work inside distort, while Squall
does not-- another reason for the power cost. Essentially this is a "I don't
like how this skill works and instead of actually working around it by putting
up walls, I'd rather just nerf it so I don't have to deal with it."
---[Xenthos on 4/21 @ 22:11 writes]:
Now, consider this. For 0p you have skills like Chainyank (Magnagora), Beckon
(cities), and the like. These skills cost 0p to spam. They can be done in near
complete safety. You do not have to go into the enemy group, you are not being
attacked / hindered / killed while you just spam away at everyone in the group
next door. And if Distort is up you don't even have to worry about Rad! (Or
Squall, actually). Spamming these skills to break up groups appears to be
perfectly fine and not worth putting any kind of power cost on. Why, exactly,
do you feel like you need to address another skill that is used for group
splitting but has the following tradeoff-- 1) It affects more people, while 2)
Often getting you dead as well as being blocked by any number of afflictions
that the big angry group looking at you is going to be piling on?
---[Enyalida on 4/24 @ 23:11 writes]:
I'm concerned about squall mostly under shrine gravity, where it gusting allies
does not balance the playing field. In gravity, it remains an extremly powerful
tool, making it possble to scatter an entire group, more or less permanently, as
they have to struggle against gravity. 5p is too much for this skill in my
opinion, but it needs to not be as spammable. It's also an extremly good opener,
when your group is shielded, which you neglected to mention.
---[Viynain on 4/24 @ 23:39 writes]:
In regards to the report itself, the suggested solutions are poorly thought out
considering the range the abilities Squall is being compared to like Scissorflip
and Whirlwind. They cost power, yes, but they a) also only affect enemies and as
well b) work in distort. If a true equilibrium is being sought out, then the
same benefits must be applied to Squall if the suggested added limitations be
met. In regards to Enyalida, the same group separation tactic can be applied
when the defenders with gravity on their side have scissorflip or whirlwind to
boost them. The fact that in this instance, they wouldn't have to have their own
allies regroup themselves is a further advantage to them, so the comparison
isn't equal either.
---[Xenthos on 4/24 @ 23:40 writes]:
And yet Shrine Distort stops it -completely-. It does not work if shrine
distort is up against anyone who is affected by that shrine (or if that shrine
is affecting the squaller). You mention it being more powerful in gravity (one
shrine effect) while ignoring that another War shrine effect is even more
effective at stopping it entirely. As to an opener, that apparently has nothing
at all to do with 'spamming' it, eh? Though I personally have other things to
be doing than squalling when the enemy group comes in, because at that point my
group is -not- all shielded... they are all fighting, having shields removed,
etc. The side that enters has the foreknowledge of knowing precisely when they
are moving, unlike the defending side, has the advantage in terms of striking
first blows.
---[Sahmiam on 4/25 @ 01:13 writes]:
I think it's interesting that people are arguing that, because squall works on
allies, it should be better when it's oftentimes used to save allies. I think
it's a bit wrong to compare it to scissorflip or whirlwind, but I'm in favour of
making to work of enemies list at the very least. More details later when I have
time.
---[Xenthos on 4/25 @ 02:26 writes]:
Not throwing allies around would help save those allies much more effectively,
especially since it would leave your entire group there while nobody else is.
And not have a high chance of throwing your allies into the next room along with
those same enemies who are trying to kill them. However, I don't personally see
a need to make the skill a mirror image of an Acrobatics ability. Not
everything needs to be the same, and Squall definitely has its own downsides
which would -have- to be addressed if a power cost is added (enemy list, distort
blocking are the primary ones). Like I said, I prefer it having its own unique
flavour.
---[Viynain on 5/13 @ 16:43 writes]:
I'm still on the stance that if the report calls for Squall to be brought down
for equality's sake, then for those proposed power costs, Squall should be able
to work in distort, let alone be enemy only as the things it is being compared
to are.
---[Iytha on 5/16 @ 13:14 writes]:
Squall is fine. There are abundant counters (distort, walls, barrier) and it
can't be targetted to remove a specific enemy, nor to save a specific ally.
---[Talan on 5/18 @ 15:17 writes]:
The power cost suggested in solutions 1 and 3 is too high for an ability that
can prove to be a double-edged sword, in that it removes allies as well as
enemies. Solution 2 changes squall into scissorflip - I prefer to keep it as a
different skill.