106924-how-do-you-feel-about-your-time-invested-vs-payout

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			I think this is the source of a lot of peoples frustration with Wildstar at the moment. People spend an hour getting a little bit of ELO rating from a pile of wins just to see it vanish with one loss. Others are doing dungeons and finding gear that just doesnt feel like its a large enough upgrade to justify the challenge/time. What are your thoughts about what you spend time on in the game and what you get back from it?	
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			I put in a bunch of hours and I have the great payout of a bunch of hours of entertainment.	
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I think the problem is we look at our time as money, and it's made the world a sad, sad place to live.
 
(I'm guilty of this, but trying to break the habit.)	
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			The timesink vs reward of wildstar right now is bad. Not because it's hard but because rng mechanics and blatant imbalances make it so. Hopefully fixed soon.	
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			I feel like the first few trips through a dungeon or other new content the play-through is entertaining and reward in itself. After that though I start wanting a nibble now and then from that proverbial carrot.	
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The timesink vs reward of wildstar right now is bad. Not because it's hard but because rng mechanics and blatant imbalances make it so. Hopefully fixed soon.
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			I only do things that are great Time/Reward wise, and never spend money on anything. So, I avoid dungeons, and adventures and the like. So yes, I'm very happy with Time Invested vs Payout.	
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I played this game for almost 10 months for free.
 
I've only paid around $100.
 
That's $100 for right at a year of video gaming.
 
Yeah. I'd say I'm pretty damn happy with my return investment.	
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			I've never played a sub based game (ever) so at first it was hard to buy the game and sub to it but so far I've been having a great time I play to keep my sub going for a very long time.	
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			I'm playing and I'm having fun. Everything else is irrelevant.	
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			i value my ancient dolor is valued  at the rate of a  cheap $6 movie. so the ~$75 i spent on wildstar was worth it  a long long time ago. but if say i value my entertainment like get from netflix or say wow at the mid point of my  addiction; wildstar has been a horrible waste of money( at this point in wow i was already over 25 days /played.	
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Well.. The game is down about 50 points on the Wildstar Stock Exchange o fun levels for pvp.. but was able to rebound 40 pts off the dev announcement of gear changes.
 
It is still up from Drop 2 compared to pre Drop 2.
 
Wait.. what ?
 
Wildstar - $15
Watched Guardians of the galaxy, which lasted a whole 2.5 hours with previews..  - $25
 
 
 
MMO's = cheap fun even if you dont play a ton.	
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I'm fine with the time investment.
 
Honestly, I think the problem is that Carbine tends to give people chunks of things that are cleared relatively quickly, then long periods of not getting anything.  For instance, people are waiting for their ability and amp drops in the open world, and may not see them for a month or so of constant play, rather than buying them with elder gems.  And the reason they can't make regular progress with elder gems is because they bump into the cap.  So there are a lot of periods where time investment is rewarded, followed by periods of not receiving anything.
 
They could do to even it out, if not make it quicker.	
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			Hmm lets see...thanks to CREDD i've only had to pay for the price of the game, the price of 1 month sub, but i've gotten 3 months of total playtime (in a few days that will be 4 months of playtime.  So i think thats pretty good especially since i am still having lots of fun.	
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I became finished with trying to finish attunement when I got to the "collect 300 of x item" phase. After a portion of challenging and fun group content Wildstar looked my group dead in the eye and said, "Now do it five hundred more times"
 
Thanks, but no. I'll stick around to see if PvP is going anywhere but I could be sailing out of RNGstar: The Grindening before long if things don't pick up.	
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			Payed 30€ for the first month and after this bought CREDD with ig-money. I like the challenge and difficulty this game offers and enjoy my time with it. After playing Wildstar i cant even think about going back to WoW with its boring combat even in heroic modes. I guess i will keep playing it until Camelot Unchained is coming out.	
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 RNGstar: The Grindening 
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			people keep responding with $ vs enjoyment.  The question at hand is for the amount of time you spend in game doing stuff, how do you feel about what you get for that...whether it be rewards, intrinsic fun value, etc.	
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people keep responding with $ vs enjoyment.  The question at hand is for the amount of time you spend in game doing stuff, how do you feel about what you get for that...whether it be rewards, intrinsic fun value, etc.
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Why don't you just come right out and say it:
 
Dungeons are horrible Risk vs Reward. Don't you all agree?
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			Well worth the money for the time spent because I am having fun. I am not one of the many entitled and spoiled POS that need things hand fed to them. I play and worry about myself and those that I play with and I am having a blast. Those that are offended by this statement can SAD, you and your trolls are useless to me. There is a game where things are hand fed to you and that is why I will never touch another one of their products as long as I live.	
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Why don't you just come right out and say it:
 
Dungeons are horrible Risk vs Reward. Don't you all agree?
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 How about no ;) The dungeons are the first in years of MMO's that are really fun and challenging. And what is the risk here? wiping to a boss a few times? have seen worse. And the reward is fun, knowledge of killing the endboss and maybe some epic loot that doesnt matter that much. cant wait for the 20man raid. should only take 1-2 weeks more for my guild
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so you want showers of loot for a simple 5man task? the new loot system doesnt even require to get silver. you can just bronze your way through it to get all the epics you want, which are still beaten by crafted (what is in my opinion a very good thing). you see, the greed for more epic more awesome loot, more reward, less time... that is what maybe some people want. those people play d3 or wow where they fire catapults of loot at the players just to keep them satisfied. welcome to the boring itemspiral that goes on and on and on. all you loot isnt be worth cupcake with next addon and so on. 
is loot really everything what people care about? time spend = loot gained?
i personally wouldnt play wildstar if it was a lootfest like other mmos. couldnt care less and i know a lot of people that also think this way. its the same kind of people that cry for epics for gold adventures. epics... uuuuuh we want more purple because in our brain purples are what makes games goooooood. pls stop.
 
dungeons are perfect time / reward. you push, you play, you feel the tension of the bossfights, you get the boss down and at the end you get some rewards. sounds more fun to me than
 
run a dungeon 60 times, even if its boring, tedious and absolutly no challenge BUT I NEED THAT ONE ITEM FROM THAT ONE BOSS BECAUSE ITS SO BEST IN SLOT THAT I CANT RAID WITHOUT IT!!!!! dont make wildstar this kinda game. cant wait for wow addon to come out. will make this place nicer	
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so you want showers of loot for a simple 5man task? 
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If you play a game just for purple pixels you're going to have a bad time. 
 
A game is for enjoyment. I'm enjoying; so it's more than worth a low priced meal at a mid lower middle class restaurant per month to me. Your mileage may vary.	
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I think any game designer should strive to make it so playing the game is its own reward. Once you get to the mindset of "I'm doing this not because I'm having fun but because I want ******", I think you're leaving the territory of good game design.
I played WvW for hundreds of hours in GW2 because I love open world (well kind of open) PvP.
The loot was virtually nonexistent, there was no gear progression, you could easily end up in the red after a streak of deaths. And yet, I kept playing. Why? Because there's always a better player that forces you to adapt and improve. That keeps things interesting; it's something to work towards. It's a slow but enjoyable process.
 
But that being said, I do feel that PvE content needs to be more rewarding on average because, by design, it can never be as consistently varied as PvP. Once you really got a dungeon down, it all becomes routine, and I do agree you need a proverbial carrot to keep repeating the same content.
 
RNG is currently hamstringing Wildstar's reward system, but we've discussed that elsewhere.
 
Edit: Personally, I also think the system of "you get the drop or you don't get the drop" i.e. "all or nothing" is rather frustrating. I'd prefer it if you got EG that aren't part of the weekly cap for completing dungeons, a "consolation prize" so to say.	
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			Time invested into a game needs a payout?  I don't know about you op, but I find when I do something fun I do not look at what I get out of it,  doing that leads to the activity you are doing to become boring and dull.  Like work.   Ignore what you get out of stuff you enjoy and you will enjoy doing them.	
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I think any game designer should strive to make it so playing the game is its own reward. Once you get to the mindset of "I'm doing this not because I'm having fun but because I want ******", I think you're leaving the territory of good game design.
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 In a tentpole game like this that is trying to cast a large net i would say you need to reward multiple player types...and thats ok. and being in a mindset where you enjoy one kind of reward over another doesnt make you "wrong"
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Hm? Not sure you got my point.
I'm not saying playing the game should be its only reward, but it should be one reward.
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I'm actually discovering that... I suck pretty bad at this game. The controls are super-awkward for me, I suck at telegraph dodging, it takes me forever to kill things so I fail pretty much every kill challenge...
 
And I hate how weird & unintuitive crafting is in this game. I spent a few hours farming stringy poultry to make a stack of tangy wings, thinking I'd get some decent skillups & a stack of buff food to boot ~ NOPE! Not how it works. You need to fulfill all the objectives in the tech tree to advance your cooking - which is buying every recipe, cooking one of every freaking thing, cooking 300+ of a category of things... it's very tedious & unfun.
 
Time invested here really isn't feeling like time well-spent for me. Bleh.	
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I am reminded back to my City of Heroes days where there was endless discussion whether how well the system was designed around risk versus reward. And then one of the devs, I think it was Positron, came right out and said that they were actually designing around time versus reward. Seeing more and more MMOs coming out with token and reputation systems has only reinforced my belief that risk is dead, and its all about time now. Wildstar has been no exception. 
 
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I think any game designer should strive to make it so playing the game is its own reward. Once you get to the mindset of "I'm doing this not because I'm having fun but because I want ******", I think you're leaving the territory of good game design.
 
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I'm actually discovering that... I suck pretty bad at this game. The controls are super-awkward for me, I suck at telegraph dodging, it takes me forever to kill things so I fail pretty much every kill challenge...
 
And I hate how weird & unintuitive crafting is in this game. I spent a few hours farming stringy poultry to make a stack of tangy wings, thinking I'd get some decent skillups & a stack of buff food to boot ~ NOPE! Not how it works. You need to fulfill all the objectives in the tech tree to advance your cooking - which is buying every recipe, cooking one of every freaking thing, cooking 300+ of a category of things... it's very tedious & unfun.
 
Time invested here really isn't feeling like time well-spent for me. Bleh.
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Try an actual craft (cooking is a 'hobby' in W*). The actual crafts aren't too bad; but there are differences between some craft mechanics (item/armour making 'circuit board' crafting and technologist / architect dart board crafting). 
 
I absolutely hate cooking mechanics atm; but I <3 my technologist and architect crafting 
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Fair enough
 
edit: your idea for the EG that doesnt count towards the weekly cap would make a good daily dungeon quest reward imo.
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It's... exactly like cooking, except not as difficult. Same system though. And additives cost a lot. Like... several gold per craft at expert level. If you hated cooking, I don't really see you liking Technologist or Architect... 
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It's... exactly like cooking, except not as difficult. Same system though. And additives cost a lot. Like... several gold per craft at expert level. If you hated cooking, I don't really see you liking Technologist or Architect... 
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...I spent a few hours farming stringy poultry to make a stack of tangy wings...
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I think the problem is we look at our time as money, and it's made the world a sad, sad place to live.
 
(I'm guilty of this, but trying to break the habit.)
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I think this is the source of a lot of peoples frustration with Wildstar at the moment. People spend an hour getting a little bit of ELO rating from a pile of wins just to see it vanish with one loss. Others are doing dungeons and finding gear that just doesnt feel like its a large enough upgrade to justify the challenge/time. What are your thoughts about what you spend time on in the game and what you get back from it?
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. It cannot work in 2014 with a vastly watered down market and too many casual and free to play/buy  games out there. Sorry  carbine and fans of this game, but that is the main reason why this game is failing to retain any semblance of a player base.
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			meh... erased my comment	
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Pre 50, I felt it was a great payoff
Post 50, I feel like it has almost no payoff.	
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I think this is the source of a lot of peoples frustration with Wildstar at the moment. People spend an hour getting a little bit of ELO rating from a pile of wins just to see it vanish with one loss. Others are doing dungeons and finding gear that just doesnt feel like its a large enough upgrade to justify the challenge/time. What are your thoughts about what you spend time on in the game and what you get back from it?
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All I know is I have been playing at lvl 50 since a few weeks after launch and the only thing that has increased is how much plat I have. Pretty much, my gear is the same stuff I bought a few days after 50 from PvE and PvP.
 
I don't do dungeons though, no one wants a newb around and they especially don't want a inexperienced PvP healer like me who does not know all these dungeons like the back of their hands.
 
Drop 2 killed pvp for me so that makes it worse and to think I will have to wait 2-3 months before any that gets some proper fixes if at all.
 
Take a break? Sure, but if I do there is a 99% chance I won't be back. Yea....not logged in much since drop 2, the honey moon is over I guess.	
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So MMOs have to be all the same and cater to that casual market or die? This is probably why my friends and I typically stay out of the genre.
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I've been having fun leveling alts, two 50s now and two 40+s. It does bother me that I can hit 50, head to the CX and buy gear (that with few exceptions) that is better than 99% of the stuff I've seen in adv/dungeons. I'm hitting 5.5k DPS on my esper, which is raid ready. All for a few plat. Then I have to spend a few weeks getting attunement done (my guild isn't 4/4 silver yet so I have to pug a lot), even though I'm perfectly ready.
 
Soo I do other things.	
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 And frankly, I am sick of dwarves and elves in medieval fantasy settings. If this game launched in 1999, it would have been a huge hit because there wasn't any mmo out at the time. Eq 1 got away with making their game a huge grindfest because it was the first or 2nd mmorpg.. 
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I've been having fun leveling alts, two 50s now and two 40+s. It does bother me that I can hit 50, head to the CX and buy gear (that with few exceptions) that is better than 99% of the stuff I've seen in adv/dungeons. I'm hitting 5.5k DPS on my esper, which is raid ready. All for a few plat. Then I have to spend a few weeks getting attunement done (my guild isn't 4/4 silver yet so I have to pug a lot), even though I'm perfectly ready.
 
Soo I do other things.
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the vast majority of pre-raid BiS gear is from adventures, dungeons, and world bosses; not crafted.
 
There is only 1 piece of crafted gear that qualifies as BiS for my heal spec medic out of 12 slots; rest is all adv/dung/boss gear. 
0 /12 slots Pre-raid BiS are crafted for my DPS medic.
 
Where is all this awesome crafted BiS gear? The highest I've seen is for DPS engi's which have maybe 3 or 4 / 12 slots that can have crafted items as BiS for now..
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Why do they have to be 'innovative' and instead just use tried and true MMO progression like:
 
1 ) Level to 50
2 ) Work on reps/quests/crafting/dailies to get better gear.
3 ) Do regular dungeons until geared up enough
4 ) Do HM dungeons to prep for raids
5 ) Do normal mode raids to prep for HMs
6 ) Do HM raids and be top.
 
Same thing for PvP.
 
This system they are going for both PvE and PVE  don't make much sense thus leads to frustration rather than happiness. :(	
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I didn't say BiS, I said good enough for entry raiding. My point is the level of return from grinding dungeons/adv for that .2% drop chance item that may or may not have usable runes isn't comparable to the time spent/difficulty. 
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			If you don't like Wildstar then git out, filthy casual.	
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RE: Op's Title.
 
 
Better then most relationships i've been in.	
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I played this game for almost 10 months for free.
 
I've only paid around $100.
 
That's $100 for right at a year of video gaming.
 
Yeah. I'd say I'm pretty damn happy with my return investment.
 
LOL we could care !@#$ less for microtransaction payments or the fact we have to pay monthly, I'm talking time invested vs payout AS IN ARENAS, Battlegrounds, instances, THE GAME ITSELF, THE REASON WHY WE PLAY GAMES.
 
And for the time invested, you get VERY LITTLE payout. Sure you get satisfaction you completed something difficult, but where is the money, the gear, the mounts, THE REWARD? Very, very small payout.
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Fun at first, but losing ground fast.  World PvP doesn't exist, and Walatiki is the only other realistic option, unless you're willing to wait twenty minutes to an hour for one of the better maps to pop - I haven't even played the new one yet because after about twenty minutes of waiting, I give up and play Walatiki. I could wait around longer for it to pop, but my time is limited, I don't want to spend an evening playing four or five times, often joining near the end when people have quit.
 
Also... why can't you votekick bots in PvP?	
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I base everything on the "fun factor".
 
If Having_Fun = yes then, Keep_playing= 1.
 
If Keep_playing = 1 then, Time_playing_MMORPG = Worth_investing.
 
:P
 
;)
 
 	
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