145581-signature-status-perks-are-lacking

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Every other free to play mom with a optional sub gives the currency you can buy with money to the subscribers. Only right now you get nothing. Omnibits are a joke when it comes to the "free to play" currency. 
 
At the very least I think subscribers should get at the very least 25% extra omnibits. I would very much to see those of us that are still subscribed to the game to get Ncoins each month. 
 
I have seen to many threads both on Reddit, here, and other fan sites stating that they will not keep there sub just to have 25% extra exp and such. 
 
They are right too. I hope this gets changed soon. This is the only mmo that I enjoy currently and I feel is worth my money. Don't make me regret supporting you again carbine.	
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Well sure Wildstars signature is great and all and i can agree it's a bit lacking.
A good sub model is what the game The Secret World use. It's a great subscription model since every month you get 10 $ worth of FC coins to spend in the shop, you can actually buy a Issue (DLC) for the amount of coins you get each month. Aswell you get 10 % discount in the store, you get 10 Veteran poins every month and can save them up for cool gear etc.
So TSW subscribtion model is better that way since it rewards you for beeing a subscriber.
I do hope they plan on changing the signiture edtion to be more rewarding in the future not just boost etc.
			
				
	Edited October 28, 2015 by Fontz	
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Well sure Wildstars signature is great and all and i can agree it's a bit lacking.
The model The Secret Worls use is an awesome subscription model since every month you get 10 $ worth of FC coins to spend in the shop, you can actually buy a Issue(DLC) for the amount of coins you get each month. Aswell you get 10 % discount in the store, you get 10 Veteran poins every month and can save them up for cool gear etc.
So TSW subscribtion model is better that way since it rewards you for beeing a subscriber.
I do hope they plan on changing the signiture edtion to be more rewarding in the future not just boost etc.
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I don't think we will see any change soon in Wildstar for the signiture edition. And to be rewarded for beeing a subscriber in an f2p mmo makes more people stay. I'm a subscriber in wildstar since i like exp boost etc, but it's not enough for me to stay for month/years in Wildstar as a subscriber.
So bump up some nice rewards for us signiture players each month :)	
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			If I'd get some omnibits or coins for being a sub I'd probably have one because of convinience  :)	
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			if they would increase the value of sub it would increase the value of credd which would decrease the value of gold sellers.	
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			It's fine the way it is. It's not so great that people NEED it , it's not so bad that it's useless. I think it's balanced.	
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...free to play mom...
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			I don't play insane hours, but I accrue Omnibits at a rate that fulfills my Service Token needs for runecrafting (which is really the only non-aesthetic thing from the cash shop that is regularly needed). I realize they aren't falling like Elder Gems, but they essentially represent lost potential cash shop profit, so they won't. The currency and reputation boosts are, in my opinion, the reason to go Signature. If Omnibits were added to the boosts, we'd almost certainly have to endure a price increase to make up for this, and I'm quite comfy with the typical $15."Give us more stuff for the same price" isn't much of an argument anywhere...
			
				
	Edited October 28, 2015 by zuraith	
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I've managed to buy 3 different  housing plot "skys" and the Shades eve dye pack with those "joke" Omnibits, I think it works just fine as is and the Sig Service perks are way more than just "+25% exp"
 
and what about CREDD users? The only thing they pay for their sub is in-game plat. Should they also get free Ncoins too? How should the actual paying subscribers feel and react to that?	
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It's fine the way it is. It's not so great that people NEED it , it's not so bad that it's useless. I think it's balanced.
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It's fine the way it is. It's not so great that people NEED it , it's not so bad that it's useless. I think it's balanced.
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So should I stay subbed then?? There is no reason to. The 25% extra stuff is just a qol thing and hardly worth 15$/mo.
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I've managed to buy 3 different  housing plot "skys" and the Shades eve dye pack with those "joke" Omnibits, I think it works just fine as is and the Sig Service perks are way more than just "+25% exp"
 
and what about CREDD users? The only thing they pay for their sub is in-game plat. Should they also get free Ncoins too? How should the actual paying subscribers feel and react to that?
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Players that use credd do not pay any money to carbine, they only spend in game gold. So why should they get the same thing the players that give money to carbine get? Do you know how backwards that sounds....
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			I don't currently have a sub, but I might if, like, I earned ominbits faster while playing. Don't even need omnibits to come with the sub, just the ability to earn them faster without a weekly cap would be cool for me. But, yeah, well, you know, that's like, uh, just my opinion, man. 	
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Whether we like it or not, Wildstar is now competing against other F2P MMOs, and that competition isn't limited just to how their F2P system works.  I think we can all applaud the job Carbine did on setting F2P up, but they also need to take into consideration that a lot of the new players coming to the game likely came from other F2P MMOs.  They're going to have some concept of what a subscription service looks like and if it doesn't match their experience, they likely aren't going to see it as being worth their $15.
 
And, having looked into it myself, I had a hard time finding another MMO whose subscription service doesn't offer some sort of monthly stipend, store discount, both, or even monthly items (lockboxes, costumes, exclusive promotions, etc.).  And, unfortunately, by making F2P as unrestrictive as they have, Wildstar's subscription service also offers less in terms of extra mechanics for subscribers (eg unlimited PvP, more character race choices, earlier access to mounts, etc.).  It's sort of a double-edged sword they've created.  By making F2P as good as they have, there are less things being offered to subscribers.
 
It can't be assumed that because these people won't view Signature as being worth $15 that they're guaranteed to spend $15 in the store on a monthly basis.  Part of the reason F2P MMOs keep their subscription services around is to have that guaranteed monthly income, while also helping to build a loyal - invested - fanbase.
 
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and what about CREDD users? The only thing they pay for their sub is in-game plat. Should they also get free Ncoins too? How should the actual paying subscribers feel and react to that?
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I don't play insane hours, but I accrue Omnibits at a rate that fulfills my Service Token needs for runecrafting (which is really the only non-aesthetic thing from the cash shop that is regularly needed). I realize they aren't falling like Elder Gems, but they essentially represent lost potential cash shop profit, so they won't. The currency and reputation boosts are, in my opinion, the reason to go Signature. If Omnibits were added to the boosts, we'd almost certainly have to endure a price increase to make up for this, and I'm quite comfy with the typical $15.
 
"Give us more stuff for the same price" isn't much of an argument anywhere...
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For me, I'm not sure the value is there, but I will probably sub anyway because I like the game ...
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Well sure Wildstars signature is great and all and i can agree it's a bit lacking.
A good sub model is what the game The Secret World use. It's a great subscription model since every month you get 10 $ worth of FC coins to spend in the shop, you can actually buy a Issue (DLC) for the amount of coins you get each month. Aswell you get 10 % discount in the store, you get 10 Veteran poins every month and can save them up for cool gear etc.
So TSW subscribtion model is better that way since it rewards you for beeing a subscriber.
I do hope they plan on changing the signiture edtion to be more rewarding in the future not just boost etc.
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I like the game, too. I'm a "white knight fanboy" from way back.
 
I'll tell you, straight up, it's not worth it to keep a subscription once you hit T5 Cosmic Rewards. Heck, probably more like T2 or whatever one gives you all the social perks.
 
I mean, the XP buff is nice and all, but between Rested XP, various flasks, guild perks and the planned Double XP weekends, even *that* is practically worthless.
 
After that, what's left? A 10% Crafting Bonus and some extra gold drops? Please. A pittance of in-game gold and a "slightly improved chance" to not screw up an already screwed-up crafting process? Oh, priority queue times for non-existent queues! Pfft. Thanks, but no thanks.
 
So they're losing my $15/month. They have been so generous with the perks for Cosmic Rewards, it's become pretty obvious that they don't plan to make money off subscriptions - and since they have so far not even SPOKEN to us about the toon-specific locks on Pets and Mounts, they won't get *that* money from me, either.
 
So, now I'm a Freebot, paying them *nothing* when with just a minor tweak either way, they could either have my subscription money every month *or* my NCCoin/Shop purchase money.
 
That's their call, not mine. I'm only looking at the Big Picture, and that picture tells me that Carbine has chosen to go with a model that flat-out is not worth it to a long-time player with a sense of good business practices.
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I like the game, too. I'm a "white knight fanboy" from way back.
 
I'll tell you, straight up, it's not worth it to keep a subscription once you hit T5 Cosmic Rewards. Heck, probably more like T2 or whatever one gives you all the social perks.
 
I mean, the XP buff is nice and all, but between Rested XP, various flasks, guild perks and the planned Double XP weekends, even *that* is practically worthless.
 
After that, what's left? A 10% Crafting Bonus and some extra gold drops? Please. A pittance of in-game gold and a "slightly improved chance" to not screw up an already screwed-up crafting process? Oh, priority queue times for non-existent queues! Pfft. Thanks, but no thanks.
 
So they're losing my $15/month. They have been so generous with the perks for Cosmic Rewards, it's become pretty obvious that they don't plan to make money off subscriptions - and since they have so far not even SPOKEN to us about the toon-specific locks on Pets and Mounts, they won't get *that* money from me, either.
 
So, now I'm a Freebot, paying them *nothing* when with just a minor tweak either way, they could either have my subscription money every month *or* my NCCoin/Shop purchase money.
 
That's their call, not mine. I'm only looking at the Big Picture, and that picture tells me that Carbine has chosen to go with a model that flat-out is not worth it to a long-time player with a sense of good business practices.
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It feels like they are trying to take advantage of the subscribers by making them by NCOIN on top of their subscription.   I hope that's not the case, but what else can we think at this point?  
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Now i decided to pull the plug for my signiture edtion. And it's not that i don't like it, but it's not enough for me. I may sound greedy but a few more exp points or currencies here and there faster is not enough to keep me subscribed for months.
And mainly why i dumped the subscription is all the bugs i have atm with housing, some quest bugs, and that the FPS drops is still there, even a year after full release.
I will still play wildstar from time to time to see if they improved the game or fixed the issues i have in this game.
But paying a subscription for it atm is not worth it to me.	
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			Yup.  Sub status kinda sucks.  The exp boost was mighty attractive for the last month, but now that I'm 50, I'm over it.  If enough people cancel, hopefully they will give it some love.	
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			Agreed. I bought a $5 box so I got to test sub status on the cheap... No thanks. Doesn't even make it tempting to play more often to try and take advantage of the sub stats before it runs out.	
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Well, to be honest, that's *exactly* what they want to happen.
 
It's called "making as much money as the market will allow" ... and since they are new to the F2P marketplace, we can expect a learning curve.
 
Look, unlike some other regular long-time posters here, I don't expect everything in an F2P game to be included in my subscription. I was a little put off by the studio putting *paid items* in the "Rewards" column for theses last two events, since by definition, a "reward" is freely earned or given - but other than that, I don't care if they put mounts, pets, costumes and seasonal goodies on the shop for extra. I played WoW a long time, and spent craploads of money on pets and mounts for my wife, so I totally understand, accept and appreciate that "some things" must be paid extra for.
 
As I said, my problem is the motivation to keep subscribing runs into the wall of character-locked vanity items. It's a deplorable practice and I *flat out refuse* to pay WoW prices for single-character items. It's ridiculous and a very short-sighted business plan. Sadly, it will probably not change, since there are obviously many, many people with more money than common sense, willing to pay MULTIPLE TIMES for the same item.
 
I will not.
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My sub has ended and I haven't renewed. I too do not feel there's a lot of value in it, and for supporting the game and the devs, buying NCoin works just as well with the perk of being able to buy shop items. Also, I like leveling really slow and since the 25% XP buff cannot be turned off and there is no other way to lock or slow xp gains, that also encouraged me to stop my sub for now at least.
 
I said on another thread that a great boost would be having the weekly omnibits bonus cap be raised from the normal to 120 to like 180 (which would make it 50% more weekly omnibits) or so for subscribers. It's not that big an advantage but it might make subscribers feel like they have faster access to game store goods, therefore working as a sort of discount.
			
				
	Edited October 28, 2015 by SubSidal	
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			How bout a temp fix until they may think of something better? Maybe they should add a weekly stipend to cosmic points instead of NCcoins. it would give people to use credd without getting to much for not actually paying money for the game and you would have reason to sub (until you max out that is) not a solid forever fix but a decent temp one.	
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For me, I'm not sure the value is there, but I will probably sub anyway because I like the game and I think it's worth $30 per month for my wife and I to play. But I'd feel more certain if the omnibit softcap was raised and the rate of accrument was a little higher for subs. To me, that would put it at about right fro $15 per month.
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Not every free to play MMO out there gives you free cash shop currency for a monthly subscription.
 
As to the subject at hand, not every free to play MMO out there should give you free cash shop currency for a monthly subscription.
 
I do, however, disagree with how it works in its current state.  I feel that you shouldn't be able to buy everything with OmniBits.  Like, say, items that previously cost real money beforehand, like the Deluxe Edition.	
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One thing to also consider in all of this is the fact that many Signature level accounts right now are actually free. A lot of us who have been around since before the announcement were given 4 months free of Signature, so because of that they're not making anything outside of cash shop sales from us. As it stands right now, there's a decent number of players who won't be paying a sub until February 2016. Perhaps they're waiting to see how things shake over over that period of time before making any changes to the set up.
 
As for perks, maybe raising the circle limit for Signature from 5 to 8 could be something some would like? Increasing the characters up to a total of 14 automatically? How about increased omnibit caps, would have to be careful with that though. Perhaps some kind of milestone freebies like certain mounts, decor, costume pieces, etc for being subbed for 1mo/3mo/6mo, etc?
 
That said, a discount and/or stipend in the shop wouldn't be bad for subscribers either.
 
While it's not a F2P game, FFXIV has an interesting model with things on their cash shop. Sure, one of their mounts is $24, and the Fantasia potions are $10, but nearly everything else in the store is $5 or less from costume pieces to emotes and the rest. That's the sweet spot I think for subscribers to be honest. By comparison, all of the costumes in the Wildstar Store are basically $10. Maybe offering a 50% discount on things for subs is the way to go with this? Most people wouldn't have a problem dropping $3-$5 for things they wanted most likely. 	
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			Yeah. A store items discount for subscribers would also encourage people to stay subscribed.	
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			i also think a cosmic point boost for those that are actively subbed would go a long way as well.	
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I would like to see a monthly stipend added to the signature perks as well, the F2P games I've subscribed to the most have this and it adds to the perception of value. Currently, I'd say Carbine's model is similar to that of Rift which also is quite generous with the content given to free players, does not supply a stipend, and has a tier system for money spent, be it sub or cash shop. My guess is this is the model they were trying to emulate. 
 
However while I did try a subscription to Rift for a while, I never spent any extra in the cash shop. Conversely, I have been subbed to SWTOR for quite a while and often spend additional money on cash shop currency because I'll have 1000cc and need 1200 for something I want to buy and rather than wait, I go ahead and spend the $10 extra on funny money. Ironically, while I think Rift (and thus WildStar as well) has the better model, I've spent way more money in SWTOR because it's set up better for encouraging me to do so. 
 
I currently have a signature service and will probably keep it for the first month or two while I get established but right now I don't foresee keeping it longer than that unless there is a cash shop stipend tied to it in addition to the other bonuses. From what I can tell, the cosmic points system "replaces" the stipend in this model (just as as it does in Rift) but I would rather have the currency and choose my own rewards each month. I'd probably spend a little more on NCoin to boot.	
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i also think a cosmic point boost for those that are actively subbed would go a long way as well.
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I feel like Carbine is too generous with its ftp model which in turn gives no incentive to pay subscription.
Think ftp should have more limitations like - no omnibits drops at all or very rarely, much less exp gain, slower mount speeds or smth
For this reason, I think Carbine is shooting itself and the game in the foot- if the game wont be profitable enough, they will need to do something , and this might include more restrictions to ftp.
Problem is that it is much worse if you give too much and then take it away, then give little and then loose restriction a bit.	
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			You don't need to punish free players to get people to subscribe.  The problem isn't that Carbine is being too generous with free players, but that they aren't providing enough incentive for subscribers.  One isn't contrary to the other.  An MMO can have a generous, non-restrictive F2P model and a worthwhile subscription plan.	
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That would be nearly completely worthless as well.  There is NO reason to subscribe now, so who is going to sub just to get some cosmic point bonus, when they could just buy NCoins and get far far more cosmic points?  And that's not even getting into the whole issue that cosmic points are more or less useless as well.  It's just a very small bonus for spending money.
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As a subscriber, I do agree that there is very little you actually get for it.  Carbine needs to do two things IMO.
 
1.  The subscription model has to have more perks to make it worth the investment.  Perhaps a monthly stipend of omnibits a few hundred a month  would not be bank breaking.  (Then if they do go with making store purchases with omnibits bind to character and cash bind to acct this works for everyone).  It needs to be something that occurs monthly and not a permanent thing like a special board/mount/house, etc. as you would get that and unsub.  SO the concept of a stipend beyond the extra % earned stuff would give actual value to the sub model IMO.
 
2.  CREDD needs to be bolstered as well in order to make it a viable option for both buyers and sellers.  If credd came with a set amount of omnibits with the month of signature status, etc. it makes it more attractive to players to purchase.  
 
Perhaps give a omnibit stipend, a small service token stipend and/or a Fortune Lopp coin every month/credd purchase activation.  	
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Here's something to consider:
 
The goal of moving to F2P is, we assume, the long-term success of the game. The game was not viable purely as P2P.
"Long-term success" means a steady income, with players who are engaged over time. There will be a degree of freebot flux, but it's still desirable - and necessary - to attract players long-term.
 
A core group of vet players remain subbed at the two major successful conversions I can think of offhand: SWTOR and ESO, and to a lesser degree TSW. All have a free/sub structure. All provide some kind of incentive for subbing that can be applied directly to the cash shop. 
 
WildStar's sub incentives revolve around new people: experience bonus being the first most obvious. Most of the rest of them - auction slots, for example - can be bought a la carte from the cash shop, so are not unique to subbing.
 
Is the first goal, "long-term success of the game," served by the current incentive, "convenience while leveling?"
Is the apparent target of the incentives, new players, the most likely to get Signature, as opposed to someone who's been playing for a while, when anyone can try for free? Are these two things working against each other?
 
What happens when new people stop leveling? What value are they getting from the sub? Will most of them keep it?
 
The reason SWTOR and ESO and TSW give cash shop credits to subbers is not because they're incurring a loss to keep subscribers. There is no loss. They give away cash shop credits because giving someone a gift certificate causes them to go shopping.
 
This is not a new idea, or a random brainstorm. This has been a cornerstone of retail for bloody ages.
 
And from what I can see of market activity in SWTOR, most of them spend far more than 500 coins per month. They take their gift certificate, and they go shopping. And while they're there, well, I'll get a couple more things, sure I just spent 1200 coins but I got 500 for free! Perceived value, positive experience, and they're paying a sub to boot.
 
Maybe Carbine can add this discussion to the meetings about account-wide unlocks ;).
 
srsly tho they probably already are. I hope.
			
				
	Edited October 29, 2015 by spacefiddle	
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Well its another signature account suxs thread.
 
The good news is that, in the last thread carbine said they will pass this grievance to the relevant people.
 
I just hope it is done in a timely fashsion.  They do need to change it.  However the counter argument for it not being done immediately is that they need more data.
 
Personally the more they wait, the more sub customers will leave.	
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there are obviously many, many people with more money than common sense, willing to pay MULTIPLE TIMES for the same item.
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*snip*
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I have to agree, this is why I haven't and won't sub until/if it's changed.
 
I had already unlocked all the Social/Convenience perk's I wanted via the Cosmic Reward's system when F2P launched.
 
My cosmic reward's (27,880) gave me: Immortal Miner Hat, Full Circle/Guild/Warparty access, reduced wake here -50%, Friendly Furrelope Pet, 10% risk reduction on Overcharge crafting, Circuit Board crafting bonus of 10% target radius, Commodity Exchange 10 bids/10 sales, Auction House 10 bids/10 sales, Extractor Set: Mount Flair, Increased rest XP gain of 1/2 time @ 50% cap, Badlands Velocriex Mount, Increased gathering + 10% chance of bonus materials, Grand Poobah Hat, Increased Reputation @50% in combat, Northern Lights Dye, L'il Beast Pet, Affluent Title and Warpig of the Devoted Mount.
 
​Signature service would give me: 17 more active buy/sell in Auction House (don't really need it), -5% more Overcharge risk Circuit Board, 4 more active Buy/Sell Commodity, 25% extra Currency, Priority Queue (wasn't an issue before), 25% extra rep from Quests, 150% more rest XP and 25% more XP.
 
As you can see there is little reason for me to Signature. I've already unlocked most of the perk's that Signature gives with Cosmic Reward's. I'm also a Deluxe Edition box purchaser so I received 12 Character slot's, 6 Costume Slot's, 5 Personal Bank slots and 2000 Decor item placement in Housing.
 
Unless Carbine offer's more than the minor bonuses it would give me I will never Sub, It's just not worth it! Signature could include discount's on shop purchases, increased Omnibit rate & cap, Madam Fay Coin (can't be used in other NCsoft game's), NCoin, Elder Gem bonuses etc. They could also include exclusive (account bound) Mount's, Pet's, Costumes, Housing Decor etc after subbing for X amount of month's to entice more to Sub. I need to see Item's offered that are not available through the regular F2P system before I will consider Signature.
			
				
	Edited October 30, 2015 by Equa1ity	
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Don't think most of these people complaining would soobscreeb anyways, not sure what more they can offer for something that costs only 10p in game. Maybe the real answer is they should limit F2Pers more then, rather than add more ridiculous bonuses to signature.If you think about it, that'd make more sense if you're looking to make incentives to get signature than the other way around. :P 
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Well its another signature account suxs thread.
 
The good news is that, in the last thread carbine said they will pass this grievance to the relevant people.
 
I just hope it is done in a timely fashsion.  They do need to change it.  However the counter argument for it not being done immediately is that they need more data.
 
Personally the more they wait, the more sub customers will leave.
 
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Don't think most of these people complaining would soobscreeb anyways, not sure what more they can offer for something that costs only 10p in game. Maybe the real answer is they should limit F2Pers more then, rather than add more ridiculous bonuses to signature.
 
If you think about it, that'd make more sense if you're looking to make incentives to get signature than the other way around. :P
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			Giving more out isn't going to do them any favors either, people are never happy with what they have and always want more things, everyone knows they won't be happy no matter what little bonus they add.Obviously though, signature is just an option, their goal is to make you focus on the shop. I can't see any bonuses they could add that would actually make me happy honestly and I'm not sure what kind of candy people expect honestly. they're better off adding more desirable things from the cosmic points(higher tiers will obviously come) and cash shop.
			
				
	Edited October 29, 2015 by Naix	
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This is what I mean every other mmo does this so why does wildstar think they can get away with it....it's honestly is kinda insulting. I feel like it's the, saying thx for your faith in us.....thx for the money.
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Giving more out isn't going to do them any favors either, people are never happy with what they have and always want more things, everyone knows they won't be happy no matter what little bonus they add.
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			I'd consider it if it was about 5 bucks less. I really don't feel it's worth 15 in it's current state to be perfectly honest.
			
				
	Edited October 29, 2015 by Nexxa	
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Well current monetization system in WS is just bad.
 
You can buy stuff in Cash Shop, but everything is SB, so nothing is tradeable (you can ofc "play" with gifts, but it is far from good system). In every F2P game I have ever played, over 50% of cash shop transactions were player<->player, rather than shop->player. I do understand, that they probably want to restrict reselling thing, but you can make it so, you can not trade item once bought from AH, you can add "COD gifts", you can add Package of omnibits in CS, that is tradeable.
Current system only means less $ for Carbine.
 
Second is subscription. CREED is currently worth more than 10-15pl, that you can have it for (gold/xp perk alone should give you more each month, even with extreme casual playing), but... I would never pay real world money for sub with current perks. Everything you may need you can have from CS with NCoins worth 2-3m of sub (not even mentioning cosmic points perks).]
 
From the publisher point of view it is not ideal situation. They may indeed focus on making money from CS items alone, but with that, they will either have profit fluctuating a lot or they will have "you must buy it" items, going for P2W model (not to mention it is restricted by "you can not trade with CS policy).
Another solution is throwing most of their resources into creating CS items and placing game development process at very low rate - another bad solution. 
 
So NCSoft should focus on making sub/CREED worth more.
One solution would be additional raid lock every week and probably restriction to dung resets/h (there is one already, it would only have to really restrict things for non subbed accounts), that way they would achieve two things, 1-st sub would be worth more, 2-nd veteran players would have content to attend, even without more content in-game (but it is short term solution).
Another and probably only reasonable solution is additional perk for sub. Only thing (I can think of) that may work in that area for now are omni-bits. There are two ways for that to go: 1) 50-100% higher weekly cap (that will attract players to stay longer in-game and that is almost always good, but it will only make sub more attractive for active players), 2) Give each month (probably 1-st day of each) 250-500 omni-bits for subbed players. Both perks are worth 6,25-12,5 €/month.
 
Even with additional sub perk, they should do something about trading CS stuff, as they are leaking money there - we may argue how much, but they definitely leak.
 
As it goes for why should CREED users get same as sub. Well they may indeed get nothing, but same as we have sub that is not worth it, we have CREEDs that are not worth it and CREED is +4 €/$ for carbine.	
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 All good points, but there's an alternative solution that's been on the forums since at least the F2P launch.  Items bought with Ncoin will be account bound; Items bought with Omnibits will be Character Bound, and finally having a subscription removes the OmniBit cap.
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			I want to support Carbine and get a sub but I don't think the sub is worth it for most people, so I don't want to sub to make them think it's current state is ok :/	
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Giving more out isn't going to do them any favors either, people are never happy with what they have and always want more things, everyone knows they won't be happy no matter what little bonus they add.
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			I would really love to see carbine comment on this but I don't think that will happen. Maybe not Ncoins but at least service tokens. It's bullshit I have to pay for them to keep runes and crap....that's really low	
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I would really love to see carbine comment on this but I don't think that will happen. Maybe not Ncoins but at least service tokens. It's bullshit I have to pay for them to keep runes and crap....that's really low
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There's a lot in flux right now. They are adding a plat option for rune extraction and fragements should be easier to come by soon.I think they'll tweak it into a good place, but it's not going to happen overnight. As it is, it isn't terrible right now. It's just probably not at the best point to encourage people to sub.
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Here's something to consider:
 
The goal of moving to F2P is, we assume, the long-term success of the game. The game was not viable purely as P2P.
"Long-term success" means a steady income, with players who are engaged over time. There will be a degree of freebot flux, but it's still desirable - and necessary - to attract players long-term.
 
A core group of vet players remain subbed at the two major successful conversions I can think of offhand: SWTOR and ESO, and to a lesser degree TSW. All have a free/sub structure. All provide some kind of incentive for subbing that can be applied directly to the cash shop. 
 
WildStar's sub incentives revolve around new people: experience bonus being the first most obvious. Most of the rest of them - auction slots, for example - can be bought a la carte from the cash shop, so are not unique to subbing.
 
Is the first goal, "long-term success of the game," served by the current incentive, "convenience while leveling?"
Is the apparent target of the incentives, new players, the most likely to get Signature, as opposed to someone who's been playing for a while, when anyone can try for free? Are these two things working against each other?
 
What happens when new people stop leveling? What value are they getting from the sub? Will most of them keep it?
 
The reason SWTOR and ESO and TSW give cash shop credits to subbers is not because they're incurring a loss to keep subscribers. There is no loss. They give away cash shop credits because giving someone a gift certificate causes them to go shopping.
 
This is not a new idea, or a random brainstorm. This has been a cornerstone of retail for bloody ages.
 
And from what I can see of market activity in SWTOR, most of them spend far more than 500 coins per month. They take their gift certificate, and they go shopping. And while they're there, well, I'll get a couple more things, sure I just spent 1200 coins but I got 500 for free! Perceived value, positive experience, and they're paying a sub to boot.
 
Maybe Carbine can add this discussion to the meetings about account-wide unlocks ;).
 
srsly tho they probably already are. I hope.
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I just got the sub last night, mainly for the experience boost.
 
I plan to cancel it once that no longer provides any benefit, since the rest of the rewards are simply not worth it to me. In the meantime, the exp boost is nice and I'm happy to give some support to Carbine. I really do appreciate the work they've done to improve this game and take feedback from players since launch, and sure, I'll throw some money their way.
 
My wife also plays, and she did not sub. Why? Because she plays ESO, and their $15 sub gets her $15 worth of crowns (their cash shop currency).
 
If WS's sub came with $15 worth of currency, I'd definitely keep it after I finish leveling. But the way it is now? Nah. What's the point?	
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{| class="blockquote"
I just got the sub last night, mainly for the experience boost.
 
I plan to cancel it once that no longer provides any benefit, since the rest of the rewards are simply not worth it to me. In the meantime, the exp boost is nice and I'm happy to give some support to Carbine. I really do appreciate the work they've done to improve this game and take feedback from players since launch, and sure, I'll throw some money their way.
 
My wife also plays, and she did not sub. Why? Because she plays ESO, and their $15 sub gets her $15 worth of crowns (their cash shop currency).
 
If WS's sub came with $15 worth of currency, I'd definitely keep it after I finish leveling. But the way it is now? Nah. What's the point?
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			Also, you get glory at an increased rate. I'm finding there is value to the sub benefits, personally, but I'm not sure it will be compelling to everyone, and I'm not overwhelmed.	
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The problem with it right now is that the incentives to spend in microtransactions are aimed at players who've demonstrated willingness to subscribe, and the sub's benefits are aimed at the players who have shown that they won't subscribe.
 
The free players, ones who didn't buy in before F2P get the most out of a subscription.  They get the increased grind wages that the longtime subscribers would get, plus all of the perks that come with Sig status.  So the monthly sub offers the most benefit to players who have shown that they're not interested in that sort of payment model.
 
Meanwhile, the longtime subscriber starts out far enough along the Cosmic Rewards track to get all the QoL perks that come with Sig status, so all they're really getting are higher wages for grinding.  They've shown that they're comfortable with a fixed monthly payment, and Carbine has responded by making that the least effective use of their money in Wildstar. 
 
I think higher grind wages are the least attractive thing they could offer for the Signature service, because their benefit is diminished if something comes up in your life to compromise your playtime that month.  It would be better if they could make the up front payment come with an up front benefit, to encourage people to pay the sub whether they know they'll be grinding that month or not.  The higher grind wages work better as a microtransaction thing, letting a player buy a little doodad they can use to increase their rate of income when they sit down to a long grind session.	
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{| class="blockquote"
The problem with it right now is that the incentives to spend in microtransactions are aimed at players who've demonstrated willingness to subscribe, and the sub's benefits are aimed at the players who have shown that they won't subscribe.
 
The free players, ones who didn't buy in before F2P get the most out of a subscription.  They get the increased grind wages that the longtime subscribers would get, plus all of the perks that come with Sig status.  So the monthly sub offers the most benefit to players who have shown that they're not interested in that sort of payment model.
 
Meanwhile, the longtime subscriber starts out far enough along the Cosmic Rewards track to get all the QoL perks that come with Sig status, so all they're really getting are higher wages for grinding.  They've shown that they're comfortable with a fixed monthly payment, and Carbine has responded by making that the least effective use of their money in Wildstar. 
 
I think higher grind wages are the least attractive thing they could offer for the Signature service, because their benefit is diminished if something comes up in your life to compromise your playtime that month.  It would be better if they could make the up front payment come with an up front benefit, to encourage people to pay the sub whether they know they'll be grinding that month or not.  The higher grind wages work better as a microtransaction thing, letting a player buy a little doodad they can use to increase their rate of income when they sit down to a long grind session.
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The crying about wether it's "worth it"?
 
I've spent probably 250$ on smite skins... I like the game and support it. Here in wildstar I've played for probably more than 80 hours in the past 2 weeks.... I'm sure I'll spend atleast 200 hours a month on an mmo, making a 14.99 purchase to pay for that entertainment sounds good. I'd spend more $$ for more cosmetics... I don't want to see p2w and i dont like the idea of credd because the grinder in me knows that I can make money the Ole fashioned way, so really giving me extra NC coin would make me spend even LESS on cosmetics because I've already bought the few cosmetics I need... 
 
Tbh if there were more housing/costume/dyes I'd drop whatever it took to get me to that osun house. But I did the math and I would be buying like 625$ worth of NC coin and there isn't anything worth picking up atm. I'd like to see this game survive long enough to have a healthy arena pls.
 
And damn, I would drop 100$ for a damn white dye at this point.
 
 
 
 
 
 
I work all the time and play games for fun... if you can entertain me you can have some of my $$$
 
 
And no, I'm not buying 400 Plat worth of credd... what would I do? Gear out every class?	
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Personally I think they have plenty of ways to make sub appealing even without NCoin or omnibits included. 
 
Examples from other games
 
Atlas from Tera. Basically it's a free instant teleport item to anywhere anytime. No need to take flight paths or wait on long cooldowns. Would work wonderfully here, just give an interface or 30 day item that removes instant travel costs. 
 
Cross character bank. From ddo and pso2. Can only deposit into it whole subscribed. More storage and cross character bank. In ddo cross character bank costs money no matter what, a la carte or part of sub. In pso2 all bank atm is cross character but you get 200 slots free, 300 slots for sub. Accessible anywhere FYI. 
 
Discount at the store. From most f2p games really. 
 
Different store mount each month for you to sample and use. Tera. Genius. If you loveedddd that mount, you'll go buy it. If you just want something else each month, just enjoy the sub. 
 
Double dailies in Tera. In wildstar it could be that you can redo dailies each day. Want to burn faster through rep on your free days? Boom, each day is the same as two days. 
 
Just some ideas.	
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			The only reason I subscribed, was to support the game. I bought a couple mounts and some QOL stuff as well within the first week. Carbine will have to step up there game to retain paying players that are more tight with their money than I am. 	
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Instant teleport might work, even if it's not so much different from current system with tokens you need for that.
Cross char bank, maybe -  feel they would have a lot of work with that. Currently I am using guild bank that way - works fine.
Discount at store comes down to - if I spend enough each month for discount to be worth it (well there are ofc other perks, but we sort of agree they are not worth current price).
Mouths... well maybe if there would be more hard to obtain stuff, currently it is too easy to have all of them.
Double dailies - terrible idea. You basically do dailies when you are new to the game for first 2-3 weeks maximum, later it is not worth it. EG cap - dungs, gold - BGs, reputation - PvP contracts. Dailies are just slower and more boring way to get same.
 
 
Currently sub is (as said before) fee for faster platinum grind. With current prices of CREEDs playing 0,5-1h/day you should have gold for creed from 25% more exp/gold perk alone, but for most players it is only real benefit from having sub active.
So if you play a lot you want to have sub for more plat, but if you play a lot you have a lot of plat already.
However if you play casually, benefits of sub are lower than costs - important unlocks you can have by spending 20-30$ in shop and you can sell everything you have bought there, so you will have both those perks and plat (without grind). And each month you may sell items from CS worth 10$ and still benefit more than from sub/selling CREED.
 
This system may be good, with cash shop as only source of $ for Cabine, but then CS would have to be way more intense, leading to P2W system. Another thing is that Cabine should aim for higher price of CREEDs or NCoins exchange system (probably omnibits packages from CS, that are tradeable), so ppl will buy NCoins/CREEDs, rather than platinum from gold sellers.
			
				
	Edited October 30, 2015 by WANDAL	
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			i'll add my support again. as far as i am concerned, there is very little reason for me to sub, and i don't. what i am worried about with these threads is that they decide to make the f2p a little more harsh to make the current sub look better.	
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i'll add my support again. as far as i am concerned, there is very little reason for me to sub, and i don't. what i am worried about with these threads is that they decide to make the f2p a little more harsh to make the current sub look better.
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Yeah- I think really they are actually very close to having a really good model that even I could like. I think they need to do the account binding stuff for the cash shop, and then give subs just a tad more, and really they'd rake in the cash AND have everyone's good will.
 
They don't need an overhaul- just a few necessary tweaks.
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Assumption One: Since NCoin has entered the F2P model, NCSoft is calling he shots, not Carbine;
 
Assumption Two: NCsoft is probably in the top 3 world-wide for gouging money (check out their Asian games and the sub/cash store nonsense going on in their soon-to-be-released localised "Korean Wuxia" game);
 
Assumption Three: For Carbine to show profit in Wildstar-- if that even matters anymore-- they cannot give us an NCoin stipend because that could be spent in any NC game.  Now, if they've been "Borg"ed by NCSoft and it no longer matters which game generates the revenue, then that's not a problem-- but I am pretty sure that accounting will still be listing the games separately, like they do now;
 
Assumption Four: Carbine and NCsoft would like to see the game survive and make money, and they realise that they cannot live just on compulsive collectors and whales and people that will drop $50 on a rubber band if it's the sexy colour of the week.  That last one is shaky; they may be stuck in the thinking that all North Americans are millionaires and have no sense of proportion and will bleed money out of every orifice just by hearing "only available for a limited time!".  (Yeah, we all know That Guy.)
 
Assumption Five: They are not actually purposely trying to make every subber quit and just go NCoin purchase (another shaky assumption-- maybe they DO want us ALL on F2P monthly coin purchases).
 
Suggestion One: Make it attractive for subs to buy NCoin stuff in Wildstar by offering a 20% discount on shop prices.
 
Suggestion Two: Take any cap off sub Omnibits accrual.  It's in-game currency and cannot be transferred across games;
 
Suggestion Three: Get off the "per character" horse.  If anything kills That Other New Game, that will do it.
 
For special items that you've already thrown out there as "one character only", here is a possible fix suggestion, so that the people that DID shell out for them and may not even have alts don't get shafted.  Make them all account-wide if already purchased and give those people that already bought them 25% of the NCoin back as a credit (yeah, I know-- maybe you could give it to them in Omnibits or something).
 
For those of us that have held firm but would buy them otherwise, put them out as single character at that 75% of price, or as account-wide at the former full price.  Then, in future, put out such items at the lower price for one character or account-wide for 25% more.  That way people with only one character get a decent price break, and alt-aholics like myself will shell out the higher amount to let the alts have it.  This would necessitate putting the one or two items that have left the store back in for a grace period.  A bit messy, but imagine doing it 4 months from now instead.
 
I'd suggest doing this on ALL items going forward.  A little décor item that costs 60 Ncoin for a character?  75 to bu it account-wide.  If it only suits one toon, I'll buy it singly on that one.  If it's something cool, I'll likely buy it account-wide.  Another game I play even lets you upgrade from "per character" to "account-wide" later, by paying the difference!
 
Conclusion: I don't expect that Carbine would or can do all of the above, and possibly it will not do ANY of them.  But I too will be cancelling my sub unless the subs receive some sort of acknowledgement besides what's already there.  Once my characters are levelled, the perks existing are no longer attractive.  Frankly, they're not even attractive while I am still levelling a few alts.
 
Again, if the point of all this is to make people cancel their subs, then ignore this and just wait.
			
				
	Edited October 30, 2015 by Gamezilla	
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Best suggestion I've heard is making a "divide" between Omnibits and Cash purchases. Pets, mounts, decor purchased with Omnibits are PER CHARACTER. Pets, mounts, decor purchased directly with cash-money are ACCOUNT-WIDE. Costumes and dyes, account-bound either way, as they are now.
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Ugh.  I hate the attitude that once a game adds a cash shop people think it's a perfectly fine idea that stuff that should have been there to begin with should be locked behind a paywall.  I particularly loathe the idea that account boundedness depends on the currency used to purchase said item.  *grabs by collar and puts face in the puddle*  No!  Bad player!  Stop peeing on our QoL.
 
It's very clear that many people are not at all happy that cash shop items are being character bound.  Differentiating that based on the currency used is just going to make Omnibits worthless. 
 
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Well, I guess your idea of "worthless" and mine are pretty far apart, PJ but Omnibits are already "worthless" in terms of real world value.
 
NCCoin is real money. Omnibits are fake money. NCSoft loses nothing by giving us Omnibits; that's the entire reason Omnibits *exist" is because they are effectively freebie giveaway currency. By cutting cash players a better deal, the publisher stands to make more real money. By allowing Bit-payers to still purchase the same stuff *for free* is just generosity and a hopeful motivation to spend more real money. Omnibits are the carrot on a stick to drag you into the Cash Shop in the hopes that you'll buy more, either on impulse or because you "just need a few more to buy this cool thing!" (That's why you can BUY Omnibits, too. For those moments when you just need a few more. Then you can justify that you'll have leftover Bits for other things.)
 
Anyway, not picking a fight (I know you know that) but I've been in marketing for two decades. I know how to sell things and I know how the carrot-trick works. 
 
The simple fact remains, this *is now a F2P title.* That fact *finally* sunk into my head over this last week about the time I started doing the math on Signature perks vs. Actual Value. The game can not survive without resorting to tactics that we consider "skeevy." Don't forget they've listing cash items as "Rewards" for seasonal events - and that's about as skeevy as it gets. So I am certainly not *defending* these practices, merely drawing attention to them in the hopes of sharing some understanding.
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As I said in post #72, I am doubtful that it would benefit Wildstar to award bonus NCoin that would be spent elesewhere.  The point for Wildstar's health is to encourage extra spending, extra revenue here.  Those who state that they will always spend a static amount no matter what, for example, defeat their own argument.  If you will give me the same money regardless, then have this empty cardboard box.  Those who would spend more if the sub was worth something-- i.e. they'd pay the sub and buy some NCoin, or CREDD-for-cash, or whatever-- generate NCsoft more money via Wildstar, which suggests that Wildstar the game should be maintained.
 
If my sub is enticing and I stay with the game and the cash shop does not try to gouge me too bloody obviously, I will spend extra money.  For example, let's say that they decide that subbers get 3 Madame Fay coins per month.  I go there and use the shop (which I have never done-- silly Carbine, everyone should have gotten one free Fay coin-- "the first one is free, kid").  Then, because I think it's neat and cannot wait for next month's coins-- I buy some.  As Protostar says, "For Money!"
 
If the sub does nothing for me, I'll go the NCoin route, allocating the same that I would have on the sub-- or LESS-- and get my stuff that way, because I have all the signature perks that matter already from the Cosmic Tier.
 
I also don't buy big ticket items that are single-character only, but that's a different threadnaught, over in Marketplace.
			
				
	Edited October 30, 2015 by Gamezilla	
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@j3crow: I feel you.  Sadly, you are playing a game like that: Wildstar, now that it's F2P.  Look at Madame Fay's-- it's straight out of the Korean market, game show style "spin the lucky wheel" stuff.
 
All we can hope is that it does not descend further and that maybe we can roll back some of the more rapacious practices that are already showing up.
 
Yes, some other F2P games may do things in ways you like more: make suggestions for improving the way that this one is going, then, and we may all end up indebted to you. :)
			
				
	Edited October 30, 2015 by Gamezilla	
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The problem with it right now is that the incentives to spend in microtransactions are aimed at players who've demonstrated willingness to subscribe, and the sub's benefits are aimed at the players who have shown that they won't subscribe.
 
*snip*
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The trick is finding the right balance between having and not having it.
 
If its too good people will complain that they are "required" to subscribe and that "F2P is a lie".
If its not too good, people will complain that a subscription is a rip-off and that loyal players are being abused in favor of "F2P moochers".
 
Finding the sweet spot of balance between that drama is basically impossible.
 	
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Wel i have canceled my subscription.
And w8 for a change.	
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{| class="blockquote"
The trick is finding the right balance between having and not having it.
 
If its too good people will complain that they are "required" to subscribe and that "F2P is a lie".
If its not too good, people will complain that a subscription is a rip-off and that loyal players are being abused in favor of "F2P moochers".
 
Finding the sweet spot of balance between that drama is basically impossible.
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I don't think adding a monthly stipend suddenly makes people feel that subscribing is "required" anymore than it is in any other MMO that does the exact same thing.  Since there is nothing in the cash shop that gives any sort of advantage, giving a monthly stipend to subscribers doesn't give them any sort of edge over non-subscribers.  If the subscription gives 500 NCoin, someone can subscribe to get that or just save $10 and buy the 500 NCoin directly.  Adding an NCoin stipend puts nothing behind a wall for non-subscribers.
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Adding a stipend also means they get free NCoin to spend in other NC games which is why there is no, and will be no, stipend. 
 
It doesn't matter how you spin it, NCsoft will not give out NCoins for subbing, it's not going to happen. It would lose them too much money on other games. People would just sub here and collect NCoin for what they want in the other game they play. 
 
It would be nice but it's never going to happen.
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@Gomly Well it would be the most stupid thing in the world to buy 12$ sub in WS, to get 500 NCoins worth 6,25$, just to spent them in other game, while not playing WS. Even playing WS sub would have to be worth at least 6$ for you for it to be worth it.
 
One think everyone have to understand is that they do not have to add anything to the sub, but then they need another business model for WS, with sub that is in that game, but nobody is paying for/using it. It is that simple. I do not feel current cash shop is enough, but it can be done painlessly - just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay (purposely added so many "a") more decors, more account wide items, some in-game incentives to make alts, probably "costume sets" for house plots, promised merging of houseplots etc. Another and easier way - P2W.
Another thing is that they don't need to add NCoins to sub (but it should be taken into consideration, if other publishers are doing similar thing), as we have omni-bits that are currency in WS only. Also with OB you can just increase droprate and delete weekly cap for subscribers, to make players play more (but from another perspective just fixed amount/month is better). With that they should as well add more cash shop items (current CS is a joke) and maybe consider special offers (like discounts, not limited time offers) to be only for NCoins and another maybe account bound items to be only for NCoins.
			
				
	Edited November 1, 2015 by WANDAL	
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Other developers with multiple titles offer a stipend just fine, so that argument doesn't play out. If Carbine's competitors offer a stipend that can be spent in multiple titles, than Carbine needs to follow suit to be competitive.
 
SOE, Turbine, and PWE (just to name a few) all offer a stipend that is either segregated via each game, or is spendable across all titles, from a common pool (so that you aren't spending the same money twice). So, Carbine needs to match their competitors to meet comsumer expectations.
 
The very fact that PWE, wich is a classic cash-grab, price gouging developer if there every was one, has a better subscription package than Carbine says it all. Carbine really needs to add value to the Signature status
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There is too early for Carbine/NCSoft to even know if current model is working, players are just giving feedback what is wrong in their understanding. After 1m since model change, with 1 week of completely unplayable game, another week for ppl to lvl up, we have 2-3 weeks of real data, when there are still a lot ppl, that won't be here in 2-3m, not even talking about a year. I do know that any serious change will take at least 6m-1y to implement, that doesn't matter we can not or should not give our feedback now, so they can analyse that and hopefully change at least something into direction players are expecting. 
It is not even about majority, it is not even about major $ spenders. It is about having X$ or maybe having 2X$, depend how big chance of increasing income is, the higher incentive of changes are (there are costs involved as well obviously).	
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Maybe needs a free cosmetic each month, nothing over fancy like the store items, just something to keep our taste buds going....the real danger is it going down the road of P2W!	
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Just do what TSW does, 1 free cosmetic item per month EXCLUSIVE to subs, to those who currently have active sub. No other way to retrieve that item besides with sub, and no retroactive retrieval of items. So only if you have active sub for this month you are entitled to this exclusive cosmetic item.
 
Best model imho.	
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As I said above, NC have no incentive to change anything. People are still spending money here so, in their eyes, it's working as intended. 
 
People come here to complain about the business model and then in another thread I read about the costume they just paid for out of the cash shop or the lottery coins they just bought. Quite a lot of us complained about the haunted house in the shop being one time use and single character but I also saw a lot of people talking about it after they bought it.
 
As long as those people are willing to throw money at this game then nothing will change.
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{| class="blockquote"
Adding a stipend also means they get free NCoin to spend in other NC games which is why there is no, and will be no, stipend. 
 
It doesn't matter how you spin it, NCsoft will not give out NCoins for subbing, it's not going to happen. It would lose them too much money on other games. People would just sub here and collect NCoin for what they want in the other game they play. 
 
It would be nice but it's never going to happen.
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{| class="blockquote"
NCoin is not the only possible stipend. Like I said in my original post, Omnibits or Madame Fay coin are also option's and stipend. Those are both exclusive to Wildstar so they couldn't be used on any other NCsoft game.
 
Increasing the Omnibit drop rate and cap for subbing does nothing to the market since they're both make believe currency. Madam Fay Coin can only be purchased with NCoin but it too is exclusive to Wildstar. Adding either or both would not and couldn't be considered a P2W wall since nothing in the Shop or that Madam Fay awards are game breaking item's. They're mostly cosmetic pixel's on the screen. Not actual Gear, Weapon's or Runes that give stat's. They're costumes, currency, flask's, dyes, mount's, pet's etc.
 
If subbing gave a little of both it would encourage the F2P market to sub. I know I would consider subbing if they added both. It just like the discount coupon Idea. Give a few Madam Fay coin's and player's  can see what they can possibly could win. It will make player's want to buy more, like free tries at a slot machine does with gambling. Have you ever been to Vegas? They understand this concept very well as do retailer's that offer the "spend $50 get $10/5 off certificate's" etc.
 
Market research has proven those are both idea's that work.
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{| class="blockquote"
Just do what TSW does, 1 free cosmetic item per month EXCLUSIVE to subs, to those who currently have active sub. No other way to retrieve that item besides with sub, and no retroactive retrieval of items. So only if you have active sub for this month you are entitled to this exclusive cosmetic item.
 
Best model imho.
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{| class="blockquote"
The big problem now is, as long as money is coming in, NC has no incentive to change anything. 
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{| class="blockquote"
You had a long response, but let me stop you right there. This is NCSoft, who is just as quick to shut down a game as EA. NCSoft is unlikely to change anything if the money isn't coming in. Just like happened with City of Heroes, whose sunset was announced only 14 months after it went F2P and failed to grow enough for them, you can place a bet that if the money doesn't somehow come into Wildstar, this time next year folks might very well likely be creating "Save Wildstar" websites.
 
Does that mean that folks like me will be tossing money at Wildstar simply to avoid that? Sadly, no. I did that once before for a game published by NCSoft, and I don't have that game to play anymore, regardless. NCSoft, Carbine, or whoever is going to have to make the dollars worth it. The subscription service as it stands, isn't worth it to me. I'd spend in the cash shop, but not as long as the asinine character-bound, instead of account-bound, for mounts and dyes is still in place.
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{| class="blockquote"
Just do what TSW does, 1 free cosmetic item per month EXCLUSIVE to subs, to those who currently have active sub. No other way to retrieve that item besides with sub, and no retroactive retrieval of items. So only if you have active sub for this month you are entitled to this exclusive cosmetic item.
 
Best model imho.
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You had a long response, but let me stop you right there. This is NCSoft, who is just as quick to shut down a game as EA. NCSoft is unlikely to change anything if the money isn't coming in. Just like happened with City of Heroes, whose sunset was announced only 14 months after it went F2P and failed to grow enough for them, you can place a bet that if the money doesn't somehow come into Wildstar, this time next year folks might very well likely be creating "Save Wildstar" websites.
 
Does that mean that folks like me will be tossing money at Wildstar simply to avoid that? Sadly, no. I did that once before for a game published by NCSoft, and I don't have that game to play anymore, regardless. NCSoft, Carbine, or whoever is going to have to make the dollars worth it. The subscription service as it stands, isn't worth it to me. I'd spend in the cash shop, but not as long as the asinine character-bound, instead of account-bound, for mounts and dyes is still in place.
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Very true, 8 Year Veteran of CoH. 
 
CoH was still making money (profit) when NCsoft pulled the plug, right before another expansion (issue) was about to be release BTW. Heck, they didn't even get to finish the Incarnate system.
 
I was a subscriber and still spent a lot of real money on in game purchase's because of what their subscription model offered.
 
Luckily CoH had a very talented community that played and loved the game. Many worked in the gaming, programming, coding etc industries. The community has been developing the successor (City if Titans) themselves since 2013.
 
 
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Very true, 8 Year Veteran of CoH. 
 
CoH was still making money (profit) when NCsoft pulled the plug, right before another expansion (issue) was about to be release BTW. Heck, they didn't even get to finish the Incarnate system.
 
I was a subscriber and still spent a lot of real money on in game purchase's because of what their subscription model offered.
 
Luckily CoH had a very talented community that played and loved the game. Many worked in the gaming, programming, coding etc industries. The community has been developing the successor (City of Titans) themselves since 2013.
 
Back on topic, adding items that are not included in the regular F2P or awarded in the Comic Point's system's would be the only reason to bother with subscription. Omnibits, Madam Fay coin and Service Tokens are all stipend that could and should be included. Signature service needs a little more than just stipend added (IMO). Regardless of what they do or do not, I won't sub unless something more substantial is added. After a few month's of subscription a new player can accumulate all the necessary convinces because of the cosmic rewards system.
 
I don't want to see a repeat of what happened to CoH.
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			WildStar's F2P model is straight up amazing in it's fairness, I'll be honest.  The lack of content locking and the nickel and diming of the game is superb.  The pricing of mounts and certain things being account bound (the mounts again) needs work, but it's otherwise ace.Signature IS lacking a tad, this would be easily resolved with an added balance of Omnibits or NCoin each month, perhaps with a stacking bonus (to a reasonable cap) for the duration of the sub. 	
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Very true, 8 Year Veteran of CoH. 
 
CoH was still making money (profit) when NCsoft pulled the plug, right before another expansion (issue) was about to be release BTW. Heck, they didn't even get to finish the Incarnate system.
 
I was a subscriber and still spent a lot of real money on in game purchase's because of what their subscription model offered.
 
Luckily CoH had a very talented community that played and loved the game. Many worked in the gaming, programming, coding etc industries. The community has been developing the successor (City of Titans) themselves since 2013.
 
Back on topic, adding items that are not included in the regular F2P or awarded in the Comic Point's system's would be the only reason to bother with subscription. Omnibits, Madam Fay coin and Service Tokens are all stipend that could and should be included. Signature service needs a little more than just stipend added (IMO). Regardless of what they do or do not, I won't sub unless something more substantial is added. After a few month's of subscription a new player can accumulate all the necessary convinces because of the cosmic rewards system.
 
I don't want to see a repeat of what happened to CoH.
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