124303-want-more-players-lfrduty-finder-page-4

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The desire to see LFR versions of Raids added to the game - NOT to replace actual Raiding - is the result of wanting to enhance our gaming experience in a situation where we simply cannot accommodate someone else's schedule on a weekly basis.
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You know what WoW didn't have much of back then?
 
Competition. The MMORPG field is very crowded now. Welcome to 2015.
 
 
According to gamepedia, WoW introduced the Raid Finder in patch 4.3.0, which went live in November of 2011. According to Statista.com, in Q4 of 2011 WoW had already been on a slow decline from its peak for a year. The change in game population from Q3 2011 to Q1 2012 was pretty much nothing, and the game's population stayed around 10 million until late 2012, about 6 months after the release of MoP. That's when 5.1 came out, and the next quarter the population had dropped by 1.5 million players.
 
So I'd be more inclined to say that something in 5.1 caused a drop in population than the Raid Finder. Certainly there was no "poof" loss of 2 million players because of LFR. They were gone several months before LFR even came out.
 
Want to recheck your dates and get back to me on your version of how much LFR instantly killed WoW? Correct me if I've got that wrong, of course. I claim no expertise on WoW, I never played it.
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I see this a lot... but I simply don't buy it.
 
If you have a poker night, do you schedule it? If you're on a softball team, do you have to be there at a certain time and date? What about family movie night... just show up whenever? Of course not.
 
The fact of the matter is schedules are *better* for busy people.
 
And you know what? If you really cannot predict even 1 regular slot of time per week, then perhaps you shouldn't join a softball league. Or play in a team-based MMO.
 
 
 
You can argue options are better, but in the case of gameplay, I feel they simply aren't. The game design should dictate how it's played and what the player must do to overcome the objectives and earn the rewards. That provides the best player experience. You think LFR is in any way a good gameplay experience? It isn't.
 
And to top it off, the biggest problem that no one seems to be mentioning here... LFR is solo content. We don't want more of that in our MMO.
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What bothers you about having the option to do LFR?  
 
Are you the kind of guy that walks into a buffet and yells at the restaurant manager because you see foods that you don't like?  
Do you insist that the jalapeno poppers be removed because you don't like having the option to pick one up and eat it?  
Do you insist that because you don't like it, that other customer's shouldn't like it or have it either?  
Do you scream at the manager that his cooks could have spent more time making your favorite cheese sticks even though there's already bucket of them on the buffet bar?  
 
Or, do you just find something at the buffet bar that you do like and heap a bunch of that on your plate?
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What bothers you about having the option to do LFR?  
 
Are you the kind of guy that walks into a buffet and yells at the restaurant manager because you see foods that you don't like?  
Do you insist that the jalapeno poppers be removed because you don't like having the option to pick one up and eat it?  
Do you insist that because you don't like it, that other customer's shouldn't like it or have it either?  
Do you scream at the manager that his cooks could have spent more time making your favorite cheese sticks even though there's already bucket of them on the buffet bar?  
 
Or, do you just find something at the buffet bar that you do like and heap a bunch of that on your plate?
 
 
 
 
Second time this thread it dropped my curser inside the quote when I quoted. I apologize.
 
 
I think most everyone in this thread that seems opposed to LFR could care less about it being added,  provided it is not in any way related to progression or the rewards are less than or equal to Vet Dungeon gear in the progression anyways.  The most vocal of us saw the trash it turned into in other games and that is what a lot of people are asking for here with LFR. 
 
There have also been some decent suggestions for how to do it better, but those get shot down because while shorter time wise would still require some coordination and team work. 
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You already have a huge buffet available to you. You have dungeons and adventures and shiphabnds and contracts and housing and housing and crafting and battlegrounds and arenas and paths and dailies and... my goodness, I hope it's clear.
 
You are the one complaining that one of the items on the buffet isn't to your liking. You think the potatoes are too lumpy, and you want the chef to cater to you by offering a different version of potatoes. Why not just move down to the next selection on the buffet table?
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What do you say?  Are you ready to play on my schedule?
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I would guess more along the lines of everything is not for everyone. Why should the game change to cater to someone that may play 45 min here and there, it isn't the game that is putting the restrictions out there.
 
And of course that schedule won't allow you to raid.
 
I've been there and done that. No 4 kids but College/Work 60-80 hour weeks/Gym/Social Activities/ Rec Golf League/Basketball League through work. When it was that busy, I didn't ask for the other things I wanted to do to cater to me. I simply didn't play games unless I had time. 	
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I have never said that I didn't like what was already available.  I said that it gets old doing the same thing over and over again.
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Here is where he tells you that you have no business trying to be a raider.
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Hey folks, once again just a nudge to keep on topic and please refrain from the personal insults. The discussion has been going really well and there are some fantastic ideas and talks going on so lets please keep it that way. 
 
Thank you
- Team WildStar 	
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You said it a lot better than I did.
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And you know what? If you really cannot predict even 1 regular slot of time per week, then perhaps you shouldn't join a softball league. Or play in a team-based MMO. 
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The way I see it is that TexArcana was being sarcastic, kind of like how hardcores like telling others stuff like: "If you can't commit xxx hours a week then you have no business trying to be a raider, get lost" and other such elitist stuff.
 
Also, why are Raiders here trying to argue against something that they will never even use?  I feel like this decision isn't even for them to decide because they aren't a primary audience of this feature. Imagine if raiders were asking for a Hard Mode version of the current raids( like Mythic difficulty in WoW) and I, a non raider, came in and started arguing against it, even though I'd never use it myself personally but try to prevent others from having it anyway. And I'd do all sorts of annoying stuff, like argue how it's gonna take too much resources and dev time to up the difficulty, and how only 2% of population will ever see it, and then I'd pull out some WoW statistics how the population has been slowly declining since Mythic was released, even though it was on a decline before that.
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GREAT NEWS! Then you can try the lumpy potatoes... they're already on the buffet, and if you're sick of your other choices, it's already there waiting for you.
 
 
I can't think of a single thing more objectively hypocritical than that statement.
 
 
 
You bought the game. You subscribed. Did you not know what you were getting into? Play the game you bought. Don't ask for it to be another game.
 
 
 
See my previous... well, every word I've said. If your "life woes" (protip: we all have them) mean you can't raid, then you can't raid. But don't ask the concept of raiding to change for you. Play the rest of the game, it's all there for people JUST LIKE YOU.
 
Raiding is a thing that has been defined in the genre as hard. Carbine made darn sure they stuck to that principle by creating incredibly fun, challenging raid content that only exists in one level of difficulty. This is very much a selling point to me and folks who are fans of this kind of game and progression. Offering a lesser version is grounds for dismissal.
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			I don't know if anyone's mentioned it... but I didn't mind FFXIV's version of "lfr" - the Crystal Tower raid. (And I actually think SE did it right putting the huge group content on easymode while leaving the supposed to be challenging stuff for the 8-man parties, but that's another discussion. XD) If there were a separate raid tuned down to be easy but to give people some other group content on a larger scale than dungeon/adventures, would anyone be against that really?	
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I don't know if anyone's mentioned it... but I didn't mind FFXIV's version of "lfr" - the Crystal Tower raid. (And I actually think SE did it right putting the huge group content on easymode while leaving the supposed to be challenging stuff for the 8-man parties, but that's another discussion. XD) If there were a separate raid tuned down to be easy but to give people some other group content on a larger scale than dungeon/adventures, would anyone be against that really?
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I don't know if anyone's mentioned it... but I didn't mind FFXIV's version of "lfr" - the Crystal Tower raid. (And I actually think SE did it right putting the huge group content on easymode while leaving the supposed to be challenging stuff for the 8-man parties, but that's another discussion. XD) If there were a separate raid tuned down to be easy but to give people some other group content on a larger scale than dungeon/adventures, would anyone be against that really?
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I love Crystal Tower as well. My favorite raid. It's not hard but beautiful looking and mechanics are fun and enjoyable and it's totally LFR style, can be done by any random group. Also, FF14's version of "flr" is called Duty Finder and I mentioned it in the OP.
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Duty finder also covers dungeons, guildhests, trials and PvP as well as doling out most of the rewards, so it's more than just a simple LFR; infact, I would go as far as to say that duty finder is probably the best implementation of an automated group finder in any mmo ever.
 
The only flaw I can think of is that you can't queue with it when you have a chocobo in your party.
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Also, why are Raiders here trying to argue against something that they will never even use?  I feel like this decision isn't even for them to decide because they aren't a primary audience of this feature. Imagine if raiders were asking for a Hard Mode version of the current raids( like Mythic difficulty in WoW) and I, a non raider, came in and started arguing against it, even though I'd never use it myself personally but try to prevent others from having it anyway.
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			Um... LFR came out like 3 weeks after the raid came out so people did not have to do LFR to get into the raid. Even now, for new players, they don't have to do LFR to get into the raid, they can run some heroic dungeons/equip craftables for gear and then jump into the raid and collect all the gear their guildies don't want or need. You know how WoW required PG Silver to enter heroics? Well Raid is a progression from Heroics, while LFR is a progression from normal dungeous, meant mainly for those who can't get into heroics, and also everyone else who wants to do it.	
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To me, LFR is a magnet of the worst kind of people, and I don't want that in WS. It just feels like a cancerous spot that slowly adds to the toxicity of the community around it.
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Yeah, it would really suck if more people came and played this game... and they weren't hardcore raiders. Next thing you know, they want more stuff that isn't hardcore raids, and it just gets WORSE.
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Imagine if raiders were asking for a Hard Mode version of the current raids( like Mythic difficulty in WoW) and I, a non raider, came in and started arguing against it, even though I'd never use it myself personally but try to prevent others from having it anyway.
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Also, why are Raiders here trying to argue against something that they will never even use?  I feel like this decision isn't even for them to decide because they aren't a primary audience of this feature.
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Yeah, it would really suck if more people came and played this game... and they weren't hardcore raiders. Next thing you know, they want more stuff that isn't hardcore raids, and it just gets WORSE.
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Hardcore raiding or gaming left when Frost left.
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I can understand from both points of view of having it, but frankly I am against it. What is wrong with a game having a set audience instead of targeting everyone? To me, this is a self entitlement problem. Just because its in the game doesn't mean you have to have it.
 
You can make the excuse of "oh I dont have the time" well tough. Thats what real life is like. I only play maybe 2-3 hours at most a day during the weekday, and a bit more at weekend. In that time, I pick between doing PVP, dailies or dungeons. Cant get them all squeezed in, but you don't see me asking for the dailies, dungeons or pvp matches to be shorter or easier, why should we do the same for raids?
 
I will be raiding in the next few weeks, hopefully, and I will have time set a side for it, because if you really REALLY want to do something you will make it happen, if not, you will only make excuses.	
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They couldn't possibly have more variety than there is in the game right now. Raiding is the *one* thing not available unless you make a commitment (and I don't think 1 night a week is unreasonable.) Literally everything else adapts to the schedule of whoever needs to do it.
 
The problem is that these people typically don't even like raiding anyway... they just want the rewards from it, without really doing it. There is nothing redeeming about the actual gameplay experience at all. There can't be, because it's designed to be a team activity that takes practice... so to facilitate a "solo" player in that environment, it means the raid is nothing but a time gate to getting their reward. How is that fun?
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I can understand from both points of view of having it, but frankly I am against it. What is wrong with a game having a set audience instead of targeting everyone? 
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Quotes, please. I don't recall seeing any of them ask for it, despite the number of times you and other people who are already raiding have insisted that's what this is really all about. 
 
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			I would not define "hardcore" as "requiring a schedule". I would not consider what I do hardcore, and neither would most people. Here's a huge difference between what I do and what Enigma does.	
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Nothing is wrong with that until the set audience you're targeting is so small that it can't support your game's continued development of the content for the audience that you're targeting.
 
 
Me too! As in "raiders are not entitled to have their play subsidized off the backs of the rest of the playerbase". That's welfare raiding, and it is indeed a serious self entitlement problem.
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I have heard the argument that raids shouldn't have different difficulty levels. I cam from playing SWTOR where raids have three. Story/Hard/Nightmare Same raid boss have increased health and new mechanics at each step up. Each step up also drops a different tier of gear. It seems to work out rather well. The normally release Stpry/Hardmode together and then release Nightmare after that. It works pretty well, and keeps everyone working. At first only Story can be queued for but when nightmare comes out the normally add hard mode to the LFR as well. 
 
So having multiple difficulties isn't impossible and some game thrive around it. I guess what I worry about for Wildstar is once a new raid drops if people that haven't cleared DS do not stand a chance in there we will see another exodus from the game. Unless of course that is an expansion with 5 level bump. In which case GA and DS will start to get face rolled anyways being 5 levels above the content will help people see and do DS well I would think. 
 
I would think the DEV's can't be to happy with the amount of players that have cleared through DS a year after launch, but I could be wrong maybe they like that only a very low percentage or raiding guilds have done it. 	
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I'm okay with tiered difficulties if it's released at the "launch" of said content.
Not adding a "heroic" or "extreme" version afterwards just to recycle content.
But it has to be increasing in difficulty, and not go down	
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or like Gw2. some of the monthly limited time events (like the marionnette, or the tower of nightmare) we're great. they created hype and were probably some of my most memorable "massive" moments in any game.
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LOL I remember when the *cupcake* crabs invaded Lion's Arch, it was surely memorable. Mostly because the servers couldn't handle it due to way too many players which caused a beautiful 1fps for everyone even the fierest computer with a 5-10-20sec delay. MAGICAL!
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Can you show me where any of the LFR proponents here have said "we want easier raids but we want them to drop the same raid gear"? Can you show me where any of the LFR proponents have argued that easier raids should be inserted as a required component into the existing vertical progression?
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I love Crystal Tower as well. My favorite raid. It's not hard but beautiful looking and mechanics are fun and enjoyable and it's totally LFR style, can be done by any random group and it awards such beautiful gear. Also, FF14's version of "flr" is called Duty Finder and I mentioned it in the OP.\
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If we going to use WoW has a history for the “success of LFR” then we’re going to use it as an example of the failures of it as well.
 
We know for sure that players will expect rewards better than anything else they can get “or else why would they “raid”? It has also been shown as a method of abuse, as now players AFK in raids. Think about that… And we know that players will perceive it to be part of required progression. This is bad.
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 :lol: So we know for sure that players will expect something they've specifically said throughout this thread that they don't expect. Nice to see you think so highly of us.
 
And they'll be AFK in raids? Well thank goodness that doesn't happen here! Oh, wait. It does, actually. I'm glad we at least both agree that is an abuse of the instanced content.
 
And if you can't recognize any form of endgame that isn't vertical progression, I just don't see how that's any of the rest of our problem.
 
By the way, the whole "if it's not better gear, I'm not doing it" thing? That's not actually a trait of the general playerbase. Most of us do all kinds of stuff just because it's fun even if it's not terribly rewarding. See "housing", for example. But that's not to say that we're at all happy about content that is obviously made less rewarding that the effort involved, simply because we should be having fun.
 
"Reward content according to the challenge" is a doctrine that this game would do well to stick to, and "some types of content should only be challenging and other types should only be unchallenging" is not. You're conflating the two as identical. They aren't.
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Um... LFR came out like 3 weeks after the raid came out so people did not have to do LFR to get into the raid. Even now, for new players, they don't have to do LFR to get into the raid, they can run some heroic dungeons/equip craftables for gear and then jump into the raid and collect all the gear their guildies don't want or need. You know how WoW required PG Silver to enter heroics? Well Raid is a progression from Heroics, while LFR is a progression from normal dungeous, meant mainly for those who can't get into heroics, and also everyone else who wants to do it.
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 :lol: So we know for sure that players will expect something they've specifically said throughout this thread that they don't expect. Nice to see you think so highly of us.
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Recent posts getting a bit waspish. Maybe try to focus arguments on specifics like TT has asked for, rather than offering absolute arguments like "it's always bad don't do it" or "it'll save the game just do it". :P
 
 
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I'm curious:  For folks in favor of LFR, what are you looking for?
Very low barrier to entry (ie, forgiving difficulty, limited time investment, minimal organizational requirements) large-group contentWhat would you view as a reasonable "limited time investment"?
Which of those three is the largest turn-off to you? (difficulty, time, or organization)
Pass to see the lore and story and characters in the raid zones. Or, well, do you want to *specifically* see Genetic Archives and Datascape (and Initialization Core Y-83 soon!) or simply any [some cool zone] that scratches the itch of content at the suggested difficulty level?
Raid-quality loot
 
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I'm curious:  For folks in favor of LFR, what are you looking for?
Very low barrier to entry (ie, forgiving difficulty, limited time investment, minimal organizational requirements) large-group contentWhat would you view as a reasonable "limited time investment"?
Which of those three is the largest turn-off to you? (difficulty, time, or organization)
Pass to see the lore and story and characters in the raid zones. Or, well, do you want to *specifically* see Genetic Archives and Datascape (and Initialization Core Y-83 soon!) or simply any [some cool zone] that scratches the itch of content at the suggested difficulty level?
Raid-quality loot
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You act like I haven't ever played WoW. Yes, you do have to have done LFR and have all the gear from it to get into a raid group for the most part. Even if they don't say they require it, it becomes necessary because as a raider - hardcore or not you want to improve your character to give the group the best shot at progressing and it becomes self imposed even if the group doesn't specifically state the requirement.
 
Yes, I could shop for a guild in the game and probably eventually find one that wouldn't require it. Pay money to transfer to the server that group is on and/or possibly pay money to transfer to the faction that group is running.
 
What's more I don't blame them for requiring it - if you're going to go into actual raids you do want the folks in the group to have the best gear they can get outside of that level of play. The gear in LFR is better than you get out of most heroic stuff so it does become a progression element, probably more so now that you can only equip 3 pieces of crafted gear.
 
To get in a PuG for the actual raid content you practically are required to have completed a raid tier higher in their group finder, because all those tools are asking for a gear score you can't obtain without having done the content already.
 
Plain and simple, LFR is fine provided it doesn't award gear any better than or worse than Vet Dungeons. Then people can afk through a hallway for gear if that is what they enjoy, because they won't impact the game as it is for other people that want the challenge without "seeing" LFR.
 
You all continue to spout off that raiding is only hardcore, but that couldn't be further from the truth. The only hardcore raiding has been done already. Everything left is for giggles and is just a matter of finding a group with the same goals you have. Considering how many want LFR, there should be a whole guild full of people that want the same quick raiding experiences that should be grouped together and raiding for short periods of time as they see fit right now. I'd imagine you're all on the same server since there's relatively few options that would have you split up.
 
And once again, this is coming from someone who is about as casual as casual can get. I don't raid, am not attuned have done very little past PvP and World Bosses with the guild and a few Adventures. If I do get to that point though, I don't want to have to do LFR brain dead mode to be accepted into a raid group and right now I could do that because the option isn't there.
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Recent posts getting a bit waspish. Maybe try to focus arguments on specifics like TT has asked for, rather than offering absolute arguments like "it's always bad don't do it" or "it'll save the game just do it". :P
 
 
 
Even if you don't like LFR, you can still contribute by pointing out what you dislike the most and why. That way, if an LFR variant does hit WS some day, it might at least leave out some of the worst aspects.
 
I'd hate to see this thread get shut down because of bickering. If that happens TT will have no observations/advice from the community and will likely devise an LFR that has us shoveling coal for chua overlords while traveling the Malgrave Trail...
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yeah put an LFR, make the raids casual, give gear and loot to everybody.
that is my opinion.
 
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TT ... please don't listen to this suggestion.  :lol:
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I don't care about the loot, though maybe somewhere between vet dungeon and raid in terms of quality? I dunno. I'd be more motivated by unique armor models.
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I missed Timetravel's post as well.
 
He poses a good question... what is it that you want out of this that isn't already available through another game mode?
 
The most valid answer I think is the "lore." Even if stories aren't overtly told in the raids, you to get to experience characters and environments that any lore-hound would be ill to miss out on.
 
Beyond that, I believe it's possible for anyone to organized and prioritize their time so they can access the content if they so choose... and as gameplay goes, the skill ceiling should stay very high.
 
The most invalid answer is of course, loot.	
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I missed Timetravel's post as well.
 
He poses a good question... what is it that you want out of this that isn't already available through another game mode?
 
The most valid answer I think is the "lore." Even if stories aren't overtly told in the raids, you to get to experience characters and environments that any lore-hound would be ill to miss out on.
 
Beyond that, I believe it's possible for anyone to organized and prioritize their time so they can access the content if they so choose... and as gameplay goes, the skill ceiling should stay very high.
 
The most invalid answer is of course, loot.
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Again, I don't think this would be a problem if this wasn't where the gear would land.  Because even though it only takes five people, a vet dungeon is not much easier than Genetic Archives.  An easy raid that didn't try killing everyone quite so hard falls in a far different place on Wildstar's spectrum than FFXIV's spectrum.  An easy raid that doesn't even have the deadliness of a vet dungeon might be showing up in difficulty between Vet CoW and Vet SoTR, if not falling completely outside of even vet WotW territory.
 
People in this thread already are turning their noses up at getting Vet Shiphand level gear from a raid in that difficulty range, but stepping above that in difficulty makes pugging with 20 people a lot harder.  Imagine a Vet SoTR scaled up for 20 people.  There's no way to make that easier without a LOT more communication, considering you'd then be using 20 people to guard 12 doors, and be putting mobs inside and outside the wire, sending tank phases.
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i'm sour. my guild died yesterday. people got bored of "raiding and doing nothing else".
i am also personally uncertain of my future here and of the "raiding schedule and all that".
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Sorry to hear that, I've been through a number of busted guilds over the last ten years. It's actually got to the point that I feel looking for/apping to/joining a guild is more trouble than it's worth. :mellow:
 
Try housing if you haven't. If you like lego and losing hours of time, it's gold. :D
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Eh, you shouldn't make arguments about lfr-style difficult using the mechanics in a completely different kind of encounter. The mechanics in vet adventures are unique to themselves.
 
That said Crystal Tower required a certain degree of coordination and responsibility between groups while still managing to be "easy" enough that you'd complete it. I think one thing that would take pressure off in any WildStar dungeon finder raid would be definitely no medal system - just "did you kill the boss? If yes, get X reward".
 
Regarding gear, I'll just reiterate my stance that I would be much more motivated by interesting armor looks. Any stats on gear would just be *shrug*.
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Regarding gear, I'll just reiterate my stance that I would be much more motivated by interesting armor looks. Any stats on gear would just be *shrug*.
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Sounds a lot like me. Gotta have them nice costumes.
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Yes, from everything I've heard in this threatd about what the boss fights would need to be like, these would be easier than vet dung ones, and so should not reward vet dungeon loot.
 
It actually sounds a lot like normal mode SSM, which I guess drops gear on par with vet dungeons (maybe not the best gear from vet dungeons?) so that seems an appropriate place.
 
Basically, it sounds like a 20 person normal mode SSM is what is desired, and that would be just fine with me. But I think it would be better to be a whole new instance.
 
I wonder if the people who want LFR have done normal mode SSM and what they think about it in terms of challenge, length, and reward?	
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If LFR is a "fun" non-committed endeavor then costumes, dyes, mounts, pets.. things of the "fun" variety should be what are rewarded. Not a one of the proponents here has responded positively barely at all to the ways the no LFR crowd have said they would be ok with it.
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You are wrong and either haven't been following along or you're pulling a "lethal" stunt by being purposefully misleading because you have nothing else use against us.
 
Several of us have said, multiple times, that "fun stuff" would be a fine solution.
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Yet earlier in this thread I and many others proposed this and got the response equivalent to "yeah, but I want gear progression too" from the LFR crowd.
 
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Well I rather the gear we get has some reasonable stats as well and not just costumes( but it's up to devs). FF14 had beautiful gear and OK stats on it in it's 24 man raids. I and Naunet are very much into collecting visually nice gear but some people might want actual stats as intensive in order to run LFR and you need 20 people to run it gathered in a reasonable amount of time (up to an hour waiting in queue). So stat wise having the gear be just slightly better than vet dungeons would probably be reasonable and incentive enough for those after better stats to run it. Can have something like: can win 1 piece of gear per week only so that content lasts for a while.
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And honestly, it shouldn't be. This game has a vertical progression system based on levels and gear, so offering a game mode that doesn't support that is doing players a disservice. I don't think the designers would even consider that.
 
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Figured I'd drop my two cents into the bucket here for what it's worth.
 
 
1) I like the current challenge of the raids. Simple fact is, if the raids got easier, or really if any of the content got easier, I'd become less interested in the game. I like challenging myself and I like trying to do better every time. I don't want to be in a situation where I can afk, come back 30 minutes later and my group cleared without me and didn't even notice i was gone. I would definitely leave the game if things got that bad.
 
2) I do think it would be great to get more people into raids. I understand that a lot of people don't have a couple evenings a night to dedicate to them, and some still want that challenging big group content. My suggestion here is to lock raids by bosses, rather than by instance. That way people can hop groups and pug and do bosses ad hoc during the week as things become available, meaning that more flexible times are allowable. That said, the bosses should stay the same difficulty. Just because you can hop into a group halfway through GA now shouldn't mean its gonna be any easier if you don't know the fights.
 
3) It might be a good idea to implement some sort of in-game raid voice chat. The simple fact is, the raids are difficult, and without proper communication, they can be close to downright impossible. Plus, raids are group/team content. There is no team if no one can communicate with each other. That's what makes the group an organized effort and not just a bunch of guys running around waving weapons. For whatever reason, some people seem to have issues with external voicechat features, so just implement a simple one that would allow people in raids to at least make calls and organize in a method 100 times faster than trying to type directions through the keyboard.
 
4) With all of this said, I am NOT adverse to the idea of LFR. What I AM adverse to is the idea of dumbing down the encounters so that people can do it blind. I would love to see more people raiding, I want to see more people experience the content that my guild has passed through. It's really great stuff. But everyone should go into raiding knowing full well that it is intended to be a CHALLENGE. It's SUPPOSED to be hard. That's why you get the gear, that's why you get the prestige, that's where the fun comes from, because you beat something that is difficult, that taxed you, that made you think and use your abilities to fullest, that made you work and coordinate with a group of 20 other people to get it done. You take that away, and you might as well rename the thing to Looking for Loot Pinata.	
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And now you've added a level that starts making it an unofficial requirement for someone looking to raid to do the LFR brain dead fest.
 
That's is why I'll never in a million years agree that it's a good thing.
 
What about the suggestion that raids stay the same difficulty, same rewards, but broken down into one maybe two boss segments for people to run that have less time?
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And now you've added a level that starts making it an unofficial requirement for someone looking to raid to do the LFR brain dead fest.
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If you are using LFR to gear up for raiding, it will take you forever with 1 piece of loot a week. You better just buy crafted gear, go into the raid with your guild and collect all the gear that drops there.
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No. CT was never a requirement to raid in FFXIV. Ever. Nor would it be in WildStar, with plenty of other ways to get gear.
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 If it is better than Vet Dungeon gear it would become required to raid, not by the game, by the player base.
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vertical progression, ever increasing stats is a thing of the past and doesn't belong in modern mmos.<snip>
the mmo genre needs better design directors that have balls.
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You are wrong and either haven't been following along or you're pulling a "lethal" stunt by being purposefully misleading because you have nothing else use against us.
 
Several of us have said, multiple times, that "fun stuff" would be a fine solution.
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I'll take you at face value since I have no reason to believe that you would lie about what you could live with.
 
...
 
Problem is, I give it 1 hour in live game before there is a post on here from people wanting better gear rewards for doing it and after it was suggested the first time in this thread like the very next post was someone saying they wanted gear progression too.
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vertical progression, ever increasing stats is a thing of the past and doesn't belong in modern mmos.
 
i applaud anet's gw2 for trying to find "alternatives" to vertical progression.
i am not saying their group content was well done for the most part (maybe they needed a guy like TimeTravel to work on the dungeons) but the idea behind having little or no "stat increase" is spectacular. geez, they even have their players interested in cosmetic, titles, achievement, collections and what not! (and wildstar is struggling with that).
if you "need" a vertical progression, then it should be based on the same idea as gw2's fractal, with a special stat that only work in those instances.
 
wildstar is conceptually old school, prone to burning out people, and killing itself by making most of its content futile for a lot of player or blocked behind a brick wall for others.
and then it creates issues in pvp (both instanced and open world).
 
people are tired of that. (so i think).
 
the mmo genre needs better design directors that have balls.
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