Report 1484

Report #1484
Skillset: Skill: Trill-racial
 Org: Aeromancers Status: Rejected Jul 2016
Furies' Decision:
We feel that Trill Eject is a situationally useful ability that does not need to
be made more powerful. We like it as it is and do not wish to change it for
another power at this time.
Problem: The trill demigod ability, EJECT, works like tumble with a few key
differences. Firstly, the total balance is 5 seconds (4 seconds for demi+) vs. 6
seconds for tumble. Secondly, it is random where you land, up to 3 (5 if demi+)
rooms away. Thirdly and most importantly, this can only be used outdoors. This
limitation also affects where you land, because if any room along the path is
indoors you will stop there. For example, if you are in an outdoors room but the
only exit leads indoors, it doesn't matter if that room is connected to any
other rooms, you will land there every time. While not all demigod(+)
abilities/traits are made equal, EJECT really feels lacking because there exists
a readily available, better alternative in almost every situations in tumble.
Almos All other demigod(+) abilities/traits seem to have some use, whether that
is a small advantage in combat, bashing, influencing or some other utility.
While EJECT offers a slightly shorter balance, ultimately when someone is trying
to tumble away the time that matters most is how long it takes for them to leave
the room. This is why somersault/furrikin roll is so good. Both eject and tumble
takes 4 seconds to leave the room so the shortened remaining balance loss after
leaving the room isn't much of an advantage for eject. The random
distance/landing room is also only situationally an advantage. In my opinion it
is much better to know exactly where you're escaping to in most situations. Most
limiting is the outdoor restriction. There are many places where this ability
can't even be used.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Reduce the time for EJECT to leave the room from 4s
 to 3s and total balance from 5s to 4s (3s for demi+).
 Make it work indoors/underground as well.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Replace the EJECT ability with a new trait: Masters
 of Flight. Reduce base balance cost of FLY to 2
 seconds. Additionally, Trill have a 10% (increased to
 20% if demi+) chance of resisting any abilities that
 would otherwise knock someone out of the sky. Bard
 song guards are excluded.
Player Comments:
---[Shango on 7/12 @ 20:04 writes]:
Solution 1's reduction of time it takes to leave the room by a second does make
better sense to allow the skill to be used instead of the more controlled Tumble
(outside of wanting as far away from the room as possible to just escape, in
which case random multiple outdoor room distance works just fine as an out).
However, HELP TRILL states the balance loss is only one second for recovery on
use, no balance lost for Demigod+, leading me to believe if there's the 4-5
second loss after use it's more a bug than needing to be addressed here. Though
we knock two birds with one stone (context), all the better.
---[Synkarin on 7/12 @ 21:44 writes]:
Does anything hinder you from using eject? Or is it pretty much the same
requirements as tumble? I don't know that this really needs upgrading seeing as
the trade-off for being a better skill than tumble is the outdoor requirement. I
could go for sol 2 though.
---[Falmiis on 7/12 @ 22:01 writes]:
@Shango: I was giving total balance loss, from start of eject/tumble to when you
get it back. Since it takes 4 seconds to leave, and you don't get balance back
for an extra second for demigod eject, the total balance loss is 5 seconds.
Total balance loss is 6 seconds (2 seconds after you leave) for tumble and 4
seconds (at the same time as you leaving) for demigod+.
---[Falmiis on 7/12 @ 22:31 writes]:
@Synkarin: Eject has the same requirements as tumble, other than the outdoors
thing. As I stated in the problem statement the most important time for this
sort of abilities is how long it actually takes get out of the room. Because of
this eject is only marginally better, even when it can be used. The random
nature of it can actually work against. In almost every situation I'd rather
know exactly where I'm tumbling than to be ejected up to 3/5 rooms away, which
could be completely inside enemy melds etc. I believe solution 1 is fair, making
eject a more viable option in many cases without just outright being a better
version of tumble (aka roll).
---[Lerad on 7/13 @ 00:50 writes]:
Actually, eject does have an important advantage that both roll and tumble and
somersault do not have: the inability for enemies to announce where you're
headed. Since it is random, no one, including both user and their opponents,
know where they will end up. You HAVE to wait for an ejecter to leave the room
before you can start trackin them via scent or scries or squints or whatever.
What's more, with the possibility of it being multiple rooms away, it can be
quite a big advantage. This is compounded by the faster balance recovery - after
a tumble, you're stuck in your new room for a full 2 seconds for the enemy, of
whom the smart ones are already sitting there waiting for you because tumble
announces the direction, to get a free 2s of movement-less target to hit. In
eject, you'll be out of the room and running (assuming you've cured any movement
hinders) in 1s. A far, far shorter window for opponents to react and chase an
ejecter than a tumbler. At demi+ levels, you can be up and running the moment
you reach your new room. In full outdoor areas, it is certainly superior to
tumble in every aspect, and not just "marginally". I don't think it's a good
idea to drop the channel before movement for this reason. Solution 2 is more
acceptable, but I personally would prefer the current demi+ effect over it - but
that's just me. If you prefer it, I'll support solution 2, but not 1.
---[Falmiis on 7/14 @ 21:48 writes]:
I disagree. In the majority of fights if you're trying to tumble out it's
because you're being focused by the enemy group. Unless you're the last person
left in the fight on your side more experienced fighters generally will not
chase you out as it is much more important to stay in the group. At the same
time, it's very important for anyone tumbling out to try to get back into the
fight as soon as possible. If you are the last person alive then chances are
you're going to end up dead anyway. You're also neglecting the fact that eject
can easily take you deeper into enemy territory, where everything is pitted. The
whole point of tumbling is that it's more or less a sure way to get out of
immediate danger. Solution 1 doesn't take away from this aspect of uncertainty
from it being like an emergency button, but makes it a bit more appealing to use
than the much more controlled tumble.
---[Synkarin on 7/15 @ 04:49 writes]:
I disagree that it's marginally better than tumble. I think it's significantly
better than tumble. The fact that you don't leave the room sooner doesn't really
play into it as it's not a part of the mechanic. As you pointed out, tumble is a
surefire way to get out of immediate danger, Eject is an even better way to get
out of immediate danger if you're outdoors. I can't support solution 1. It's
already better than tumble, it doesn't need to be made even better.
---[Demartel on 7/15 @ 13:32 writes]:
I am not opposed to the trait being changed, but I do not think it needs
changing. Aside from the outdoor limitation it is in every way better than
tumble, plus you still have tumble. Is it situational? Yes, just like a lot of
traits are situational. If you really want it changed though, then like I said I
do not oppose it.
---[Cyndarin on 7/16 @ 00:35 writes]:
2 is okay if that's what you really want. 1000 credit artifact for artifact
wings+, but whatevs. It's your racial power.
---[Lerad on 7/16 @ 01:04 writes]:
Chasing or not chasing depends on the group dynamics. I won't chase if I am the
leader and the tumbler is a warrior or a monk. But if there's someone else
leading the midbies in target calling, I'll slip out and just finish the target
- a free, prone target for 2s is a godsend, especially if I know where he's
going and can get there before them. Furthermore, if it's a melder, I'd call for
people to follow me out - a tumbling melder is also a morale booster - an easy,
sitting duck that also happens to be the most important target on the opponent
team. With the current eject, however, it's just not worth it unless it's a
location hemmed in by indoor rooms. There are plenty of those areas, but in
outdoor areas (which are just as numerous, if not more) it's already very, very
strong. The only saving grace is that with a 4s channel, and a melder's weaker
defensive abilities (except they now can wear plate armour, hurr.), it's
possible to kill them before they get out of the room, like with tumble as well.
But in the case of eject, it's really the only option left - if you don't kill
the enemy melder before they eject, you're not going to get them. I think that's
a reasonable balance of pros-and-cons when compared to tumble (or roll).