144595-the-change-to-primary-stats-was-well-intentioned-and-in-some-ways-good-but-misses-the-mark

== Content ==
			First off, it is more intuitive, and does allow for a broader variety of viable gear choices. The downsides are that it's frankly boring -- the old primary stats were colorful and interesting in a way the newer ones just aren't-- and it reduces character customizability by granting all increases through gear and AMP choices. My Aurin Stalker is basically the same as every other Aurin stalker stat-wise, except for my gear and AMP choices, and I consider that less desirable.	
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			Its same problem that WoW ran into during Wrath, once you homogenize it removes alot of the " flavor " of stat builds... i remember this being a big deal for Warlocks during Wrath, since we use to stack tons of stamina in order to have a nice hefty hp pool, but now was no gear stated for warlocks like that, making them closer to mages... which ruined the class for many. So i'd agree... i dont think stats were ever the issue...	
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I think its a good change, the old system was really hard to get into as leveling player. all those different values and some were good some were bad and they were mixed on items quiet often so you ended up with meh items. there was no good gear for alot of players so crafted blue gear was very longtime best for GA.. seriously?... the new system is really good compared to the old one. then you logged to your 2nd char and everything is different again.... no thanks :p. obv if you sticked to the end and have your perfect gear and alot of gear choices the old system was better.
And i dont really care if we all have the same stats. Its easier and faster to create and test new content for the devs this way and thats what we need. new content. regularly.
not yellow fluffy hair (shots fired)
			
				
	Edited October 21, 2015 by furoflo	
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not yellow fluffy hair (shots fired)
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Though I agree about the flavor thing (I mean "Moxie", "Insight", "Tech"... those sounded cool and gave identity imho), it's hard not to admit the change made sense as the game goes F2P and the goal is to hook new players, not to confuse them.After all, the class still have a lot of flavour themselves and the core game is still amazing (who cares about stats once the gear is optimized, it's all about combat ^^).
 
I'm more confused by the amount and secondary stat, and especially why they copied WoW's multistrike which is extremely redundant with crit. :/	
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			Still missing the old system. The new one just removed most of the freedom of choice without adding any advantages in return.	
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I think that one of the problems with most games like this is that they have no mechanic in place that presents stats as simple at first, expanded later to allow deep customization. Part of the reason I would assume is that it makes it easier to balance the game with less stats to worry about.
 
I feel that progression should include an expansion of stats from a simple set (perhaps two) up to an extended set with modifiers.	
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It's better to have a game with a simple system that works rather than to be bored out of our "genius" minds.
 
People get frustrated enough with amps.	
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well, I a just a "new" player, F2P, so I didn´t get the old system but I like the one we have now with Assault/Support system. It is easy and let u fogure how good ur weapon is.
 
I am still lost with some stats like vigor, focus, and some others things, like differences in tech/phisic/magic damage.
 
I think that the lost of all the other stats can be solved with the runes slots in weapons that help to personalice ur char with the AMPS system.
 
I am not Pro-player who want to be the nº1 in all the dungeons, just having a good time. So for me, it is great  ;)	
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But the thing is, we should not keep dumbing things down.  It is a good thing to make people learn things.  Amps, the old stats, etc. could easily have been taken care of with new tutorials. 
 
Then they could have just monetized the crafting and left it alone otherwise.  The whole point of a tutorial is to teach the various aspects of the game, and get you involved in it.  
 
The expanded tutorial (without cutting so much) could have been really a tutorial:
 
expanded to have a class trainer tell you about your class stats and what they mean.  
It should have had more detailed path instruction, explaining the use of bots, the "G" command, etc.
Amps should have been covered and explained by a class trainer or an AMP trainer.  (Heck give them 1 amp at level 3)
 
The constant dumbing things down is a bad thing.  People used to read on a college level, now the average reading level is around 6th grade.  Complex is not always bad, sometimes it is a good thing.  Change is neither always bad nor good, sometimes it is just change.   
 
Done is done though, no point complaining as it will not be changed back.	
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			I believe that when you get into rune sets, the end game runing is more complex under the new system. So it's simpler before that point, but more complex on the far end. Which was the intent.	
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I don't understand how anyone thinks this is simpler.
 
Before you had 3 stats for each class.  AP, crit, strikethrough.  
 
Now you have AP, crit, crit sev, multi-hit, multi-hit sev, strikethrough, vigor, and stupid caps on all of them.  There's no reason to separate multi-hit and crit, it's like the exact same thing with a different wording.  The caps just make everyone identical.  The lack of effects on runes makes everyone identical.	
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I don't understand how anyone thinks this is simpler.
 
Before you had 3 stats for each class.  AP, crit, strikethrough.  
 
Now you have AP, crit, crit sev, multi-hit, multi-hit sev, strikethrough, vigor, and stupid caps on all of them.  There's no reason to separate multi-hit and crit, it's like the exact same thing with a different wording.  The caps just make everyone identical.  The lack of effects on runes makes everyone identical.
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Before you had 3 stats for each class.  AP, crit, strikethrough.  
 
Now you have AP, crit, crit sev, multi-hit, multi-hit sev, strikethrough, vigor, and stupid caps on all of them.  There's no reason to separate multi-hit and crit, it's like the exact same thing with a different wording.  The caps just make everyone identical.  The lack of effects on runes makes everyone identical.
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Let me offer another perspective: Before f2p, I had three stats, armor, deflect crit and health. Now, I have three stats (crit mitigation, armor and health), just with no freedom at all in the rune system. That's massive progress!
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So basically you like this system better because the words are the same as in other games.  You have to learn terms in every game, who cares?  Why is it assault power instead of attack power? OMG my head is going to explode, rename!
 
By the way, you still get the same problems.  As an esper or spellslinger healer, you don't want intensity.  There are tons of ilvl 120 gear with intensity.  As a medic, you don't really care about crit, but there are a ton of pieces we have to take with crit.  As a tank, nobody cares about glance or deflect, but there are a ton of pieces with both of those.
 
The issues are the same now, they just made it so everyone is confused, instead of just new players.	
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	What is Moxie? >>>>>>>>>> What is Vigor?
 	
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So basically you like this system better because the words are the same as in other games.  You have to learn terms in every game, who cares?  Why is it assault power instead of attack power? OMG my head is going to explode, rename!
 
By the way, you still get the same problems.  As an esper or spellslinger healer, you don't want intensity.  There are tons of ilvl 120 gear with intensity.  As a medic, you don't really care about crit, but there are a ton of pieces we have to take with crit.  As a tank, nobody cares about glance or deflect, but there are a ton of pieces with both of those.
 
The issues are the same now, they just made it so everyone is confused, instead of just new players.
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Core stats in the old system did different things for different classes.
 
The stats now consistently do one thing for all classes.
 
Surprisingly it is easier to learn that "X does Y" instead of "X does Y for Z but A for B" and so on.
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While I agree with your statement on customization, the old system was just... really confusing.  I couldn't understand anything with it, nothing made sense, and different stats did different things for different classes.  Just made everything a total mess.  At the end of the day though, there was a "best way" to do it, so IDK.  The only way I was able to get through any of the stats was having a guildy sit on mumble with me and lead me through, almost step-by-step on what stats to put into my warrior, caps, and run sets etc.
 
It took me a bit to re-figure out the current rune system, but with stats just saying what they are, and being the same across classes, it allows things to work better.
 
I'm not a HUGE fan with how runing works (just in item, not in all gear - things costing a lot etc) but at least now I can figure it out without someone checkign my work every few seconds lol.
 
I'm all for people learning things and researching their class, but it was just a bit TOO much imo.	
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I liked the simplicity behind the idea, it also made it so they only have to offer and create one piece of gear per armor type and assault support spec. Which should make it easier for them to put out new content. Think about the drops before when they had to have 4 items for each armor type because of the stats, now they just need two except for medium which still requires four since they don't share a support class. 
 
Now it's the rune sets, and the fusion runes that are different along with the LAS t's stil a lot to figure out.
 
I liked the by-play and the milestones you received before that was actually kind of awesome. I wish they would have left something in with those. 	
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While I agree with your statement on customization, the old system was just... really confusing.  I couldn't understand anything with it, nothing made sense, and different stats did different things for different classes.  Just made everything a total mess.  At the end of the day though, there was a "best way" to do it, so IDK.  The only way I was able to get through any of the stats was having a guildy sit on mumble with me and lead me through, almost step-by-step on what stats to put into my warrior, caps, and run sets etc.
 
It took me a bit to re-figure out the current rune system, but with stats just saying what they are, and being the same across classes, it allows things to work better.
 
I'm not a HUGE fan with how runing works (just in item, not in all gear - things costing a lot etc) but at least now I can figure it out without someone checkign my work every few seconds lol.
 
I'm all for people learning things and researching their class, but it was just a bit TOO much imo.
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			I didn't really have trouble understanding the old system, even with my half dozen alts. That said, I don't really have an issue with the new system either - except for multi-hit. It's functionally no different from crit, so it feels super redundant... getting an extra damage hit is the same as the damage of my hit doubling.	
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Sorry to break it to you but there's still a "best way" to do it. It's just that now the stats have different names and there's a whole bunch of new secondary stats you need to consider, each with their own caps - things like Multi-Hit, Vigor, Intensity etc. Yes the effects of these new stats are at least now consistent across all classes, but different classes have more use for certain secondary stats than others, even in the same roles. For example, one dps class might get more out of Multi-Hit than another.
 
Do you know what secondary stats your class requires and what the caps are? Bet you can't find this out from any in-game documentation, so you'll need to rely on third-party information like Enigma or still have a guildy walk you through it. Assuming they aren't as confused about it all as everyone else. I just watched a video guide to runecrafting and the guy doing the tutorial even admitted he was confused. Progress eh?
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Also I...I don't get why runecrafting would be complicated?  Does it get more complex than "Go to rune station, select rune type, hit craft"?  If it does then I guess I can see where it would throw people.  That's not me being sassy I genuinely haven't dabbled with stuff beyond mid-level in Wildstar yet.
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If only it was as simple as "go to rune station, select rune type, hit craft". Come back and re-evaluate that assessment once you've runed for the Elder game. General sets ("What is Cynosure?"), Class Sets, Fusion Runes with special affects tied to gear slot, slot-rerolling and so on. But don't just take my word for it, have a look here and here and see how simple it all is.
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My Aurin Stalker is basically the same as every other Aurin stalker stat-wise, except for my gear and AMP choices, and I consider that less desirable.
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The change does reduce the amount of wasted gear drops, though.
 
A light assault piece can now go to either espers or slingers with just a minor loss if your build doesn't favor one of the built-in secondary stats. Since most of those come from runes, though it really is just a minor problem. And espers and slingers are actually the most compatible combo. An assault piece for a medic was pretty much useless for a stalker.	
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By comparison getting the right slots for the right runes to put in your gear seems really simple by comparison.
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Hope you have deep pockets then (either plats or service tokens) to re-roll your slots to get the ones your need.
 
Anyway, you'll get there soon enough. It will be interesting to see if you still feel it's straightforward when you do.
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Sorry to break it to you but there's still a "best way" to do it.
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Money sink does not equate to complication though?
 
Expensive is a good point, I've heard people bring it up, I've seen Carbine staff say that they're going to be reducing costs and making it so that runes can be removed for gold instead of just service tokens.
 
How does expending in-game currency make it complex?
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I... know? 
 
There was a best way before the change, and a best way after it.
 
People saying that there's "less flexability" just seems false.  You can swap stats aroudn however you want, but now the stats actually make sense instead of this odd  "well moxie is crap for me, but it's great for an x class... even though we both want to stack crit??"
 
Caps and whatnot I have never seen built-in to game interfaces (unless it's hit/strikethrough) so I'm not sure what you want them to do?
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It's the RNG which makes it complex. Using in-game currency each slot re-roll produces a random result. So you have no way of knowing if you'll ever get the slots you want before you run out of plats. But of course, not to worry because the nice people at Carbine allow you to spend your RL cash to get exactly the slot you want without any RNG. So what's to be unhappy about eh?
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First off, it is more intuitive, and does allow for a broader variety of viable gear choices. The downsides are that it's frankly boring -- the old primary stats were colorful and interesting in a way the newer ones just aren't-- and it reduces character customizability by granting all increases through gear and AMP choices. My Aurin Stalker is basically the same as every other Aurin stalker stat-wise, except for my gear and AMP choices, and I consider that less desirable.
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Let's take Multi-Hit as an example. If my role is DPS do I stack Mutli-Hit? Or am I better off stacking Crit? Or perhaps Vigor? Or maybe I need Strikethrough? Or maybe I need some Lifesteal if I intend to solo? Or maybe try a balancing act between all of these? And how much is too much of any stat? What are the caps? And if I change my build will my stat priority change?
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			I think the only problem for me with the new system...is that I'm just  so used to the old system and min/maxing my gear so much based off it that it's a bit rough for lack of a better word to drop old habits. For new players it seems okay, but I guess for me I still get into sisutations where I'm like "oh theres no moxie on....oh wait...right...."	
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I think the only problem for me with the new system...is that I'm just  so used to the old system and min/maxing my gear so much based off it that it's a bit rough for lack of a better word to drop old habits. For new players it seems okay, but I guess for me I still get into sisutations where I'm like "oh theres no moxie on....oh wait...right...."
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