124218-people-are-not-subbing-page-4

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Gameplay wise this game is great and has only gotten better from launch. I recently dabbled in ESO because it went B2P and I already had an account, and holy crap!!! people everywhere! took me 2 minutes to get a group for a dungeon as a dps just from chat recruiting.
 
Gameplay wise WS is miles ahead of ESO and B2P has done wonder for ESO...imagine what it could do for this game?	
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I recently picked up a medic to level and hit 33. For the first 20 levels I couldn't stop tripping over people. Since I hit Farside it's thinned out, but I still see a good amount of people here and there.
 
I've since recruited several of these people (a majority returning players), and many of them are guilded already.
 
It's never failed me to get a dungeon group by saying in zone chat (both Whitevale/Galeras in the case of level 20 dungeons, will ask in Wilderrun/Malgrave when I hit Skullcano level) "hey, I'm queueing, let's get a couple more of varied roles queueing".
 
I regularly get dungeon queues when I don't just queue DPS, especially as a healer.
 
A lot of my time played was not done during peak hours, but a few hours before.
 
Edit: If I had a Dommie character of actually decent level or a buddy I'd probably go zone-to-zone and tell everyone to queue up for PvP then hop Exile side/do the same on that side. Make it known that people are queueing. There's a hell of a lot of trials/returning players to make it happen, it's just harder when there's two factions to encourage.	
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Just hope they will realise that this might be worth it, before it's too late. Save this fantastic game, Carbine!
Look at Guildwars2, it can be done tastefully and without "buy to win" shops. BtP with only cosmetic/ fluff buffs shop.ETA: DISCLAIMER: I loathe cash shops and FtP/ BtP. As follows in continous convo below and above.	
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FtP no thanks. Makes for horrible community in my experience.
BtP, well I prefer subscription, but if that'll bring more players, then Y E S!
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Oh, don't get me wrong, I prefer subscription above anything. Way way above. But the game needs help, and as I see if BtP is the lesser of many evils, and much better than the game dying.I am against cash shops as well, especially when they go "buy to win" like in LotrO, but it's less bad when it's just costumes and maybe some xp bufffs, nothing that affects combat efficiency.Though I would prefer to earn those in game as well. Trolls are welcome. This is my opinion and I stand by it. I too have been subbing and playing since launch. 
Maybe they can afford a heavy re-marketing campain, that would be optimal. But... somehow I doubt it :DETA: Since Wildstar is already Optional BtP (buy game, make enough plat to survive with CREDD), it's not as huge a jump as it might seem.
I'm a mmo vet, from Everquest and forward, and to be honest I think a lot of our resentment stems from being used to subscription based games.
I guess we have to face that the future is in BtP/FtP models. Shitty as it might be. Grampas and grannies unite and suffer the future. /hangs head	
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Oh, don't get me wrong, I prefer subscription above anything. Way way above. But the game needs help, and as I see if BtP is the lesser of many evils, and much better than the game dying.
I am against cash shops as well, especially when they go "buy to win" like in LotrO, but it's less bad when it's just costumes and maybe some xp bufffs, nothing that affects combat efficiency.
Though I would prefer to earn those in game as well. Trolls are welcome. This is my opinion and I stand by it. I too have been subbing and playing since launch.
 
Maybe they can afford a heavy re-marketing campain, that would be optimal. But... somehow I doubt it :D
 
ETA: Since Wildstar is already Optional BtP (buy game, make enough plat to survive with CREDD), it's not as huge a jump as it might seem.
I'm a mmo vet, from Everquest and forward, and to be honest I think a lot of our resentment stems from being used to subscription based games.
I guess we have to face that the future is in BtP/FtP models. Shitty as it might be. Grampas and grannies unite and suffer the future. /hangs head
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Didn't say lesser of two, I said lesser of many evils.
I totally agree with you, there are many other options to be tried first. If it can be saved by other means, I would much prefer that.
However as a last attempt to save the game AFTER trying other things, I would rather see BtP than FtP. Which is what this thread is about.
There are other threads with other and better ideas, which I have read and posted in as well. No need to get snippy, we all love WS. 	
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BtP with only cosmetic/ fluff buffs shop.
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I really, really hate the attitude of "cash shops are okay if it's only cosmetic stuff". Yeah. And what about the people whose driving motivation to play is for "cosmetic" things? Housing is my endgame, costumes and dyes are my endgame. I go into dungeons or raids in large part because I'm after the appearance of a certain item, f the stats attached to it.
 
This gets to one of the roots of my dislike for f2p/b2p MMOs. They take what I enjoy most about a game and turn it into a cash grab.
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Then farm so you can exchange the in game currency with the cash shop currency .
It's like credd but credd you MUST buy every month if you want to play for free while a vanity piece is not essential to play the game.
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The entire "game isn't worth a subscription" thing is bogus, it's either worth playing or it's not.
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Many says this game can be played like a f2p if you buy CREDD with platinum but that's actually so far from free to play that i can't even imagine how people can promote a similar system.Free to play or Buy to play allows you to login whenever you want, creed allows you to enter only if you farmed enough to get it for the next month..Lets make an example, i go away for 2 month because..-reasons- and then i want to come back, i can't. because the first month has always t be payed.A returning player always have to pay.I'm up for a buy to play. also because no one likes to be forced to play a game just to buy the time to keep playing. playing should be relaxing. farming for credd isn't 
 
Also, i'm leveling up a secondary char. in the PVE - EU server and i can see a maximum of 1-2 people around me in peak hours till level 20. that's not "millions people around" like someone said in this forum.anyway it's still better than 2 month ago	
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TOR does this and it's a disaster.  They don't have CREDD so instead people willing to spend RL cash will purchase those items and stick them on their IG market.  Win-win right?  Bzzzzzt.  Very few of the items are available for direct purchase.  You can only buy gamble boxes and hope that you get the item.  Of course they use a rarity model (gee THANKS WotC).  Of course the rare items go for stupid amounts of credits. 
 
How much are Blackhole Black and Supernova White going for now?  Super.  Now imagine hundreds of items that can command the same amount or multiples of that amount.
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Not that bogus.  The game is worth playing. 
 
Is it worth paying for?  If you asked me a month or two ago that would have been a firm "No".  I'm kinda on the fence now but still leaning against.  The thing is I play enough that I generate enough IG currency that I don't have to spend RL currency. 
 
Note: This is not just Wildstar, I am highly averse to any sort of subscription.  I detest "wallet remorrahs".  The only debt I carry is my mortgage and car loans if the rate is small enough (mine's currently paid off)
 
On the other hand if they come up with a lifetime subscription at say 2x or 3x the annual sub cost and committed to keeping it running for that long I'd be very tempted.
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I really, really hate the attitude of "cash shops are okay if it's only cosmetic stuff". Yeah. And what about the people whose driving motivation to play is for "cosmetic" things? Housing is my endgame, costumes and dyes are my endgame. I go into dungeons or raids in large part because I'm after the appearance of a certain item, f the stats attached to it.
 
This gets to one of the roots of my dislike for f2p/b2p MMOs. They take what I enjoy most about a game and turn it into a cash grab.
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Well stuff will still drop from there right, just not everything (new) will be dropped ingame anymore. of the 55 pets we might get for example they put 10 in the cash shop and leave the 45 in game.
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			Then you don't.	
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Fifteen dollars a month isn't really a "wallet remorrah".
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Many says this game can be played like a f2p if you buy CREDD with platinum but that's actually so far from free to play that i can't even imagine how people can promote a similar system.
 
Free to play or Buy to play allows you to login whenever you want, creed allows you to enter only if you farmed enough to get it for the next month..
Lets make an example, i go away for 2 month because..-reasons- and then i want to come back, i can't. because the first month has always t be payed.
A returning player always have to pay.
 
I'm up for a buy to play. also because no one likes to be forced to play a game just to buy the time to keep playing. playing should be relaxing. farming for credd isn't 
 
Also, i'm leveling up a secondary char. in the PVE - EU server and i can see a maximum of 1-2 people around me in peak hours till level 20. that's not "millions people around" like someone said in this forum.
anyway it's still better than 2 month ago
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Maybe you don't buy credd every month. Although it really doesn't take that much to get there. I've been back two months and between PvP and Dailies every other day-ish I've been making enough that I could buy Credd if I wasn't using the plat for runes and things like that atm.
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Not that it matter much but CREDD prices are almost double in the EU, just keep that in mind. :)
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At the moment i believe the average hovers around 25 plat but i'm not surprise to see that go to 30 plat the end of this month.
 
Not sure if it's in their best intersts to couple the servers like that and it requires more programming as well, i wish they start coupling the pve and pvp servers together though...	
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			CREDD in Jabbit is ~30p over the last 1-2 weeks (29p this moment). A few days ago went up to 40p.	
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It's even higher great.
I'm curious how high it will go the end of this month	
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There are other things in my budget that have higher priorities and yes, lunch or dinner out is a higher priority.
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Any periodic payment plan is sucking money out of your bank account.  Hence the remorrah characterization. 
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You're looking at other people through your own lens.  A $20 mount is not "worth it" to you and a subscription is.  To somebody else who only plays a few days a month?  Maybe they'd prefer the shiny mount to the useless 20 days they paid for.
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once again, it seems that wildstar developers are trying to make the game more appealing for new players, to give the actual subscriber some pets to play with. but they actually have no plans for those new players to keep them involved in to the game.They already have the hardcore players subbed (too few for an mmo standard) and they are now looking for the casual player to gain mass but they forgot that casuals will never pay 15€ per month just to play one mmorpg. (they usually play 3 at a times, al mostly free)So, we want more players but it seems that the game is not made for them... carabine what do you think about that? 
 
 
 
By the way, Situation is better now than 1 or 2 month ago, BUT 
 
I WANT YOU (US PLAYERS) TO REMEMBER THAT SITUATION IN EU IS BY FAR WORSE THAN THE SITUATION IN US.where you have 20 players standing near the action house, we have 10.when you wait 20mins to play a pvp match, we must login in the morning to queue up and maybe well'be in at midnight. when you want to buy a C.R.E.D.D, and you think: "it's just 15plat, i'll farm it in 3 days..." well, there we have to farm 2 weeks and it's 30-40 plat per 1c.r.e.d.d.that's why many many many "f2p" posts are coming up, situation in eu is not that happy	
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eu is notes bad as depicted above.
10 People at cx ah? Wrong unless it's 8 am in the morning there is at least 20-30 people hanging around that area in thayd.. 
 
LaSt I qued for pvp i was in que for max 10 min. Ofc you'll have que time unknown in the mornings, but at around noon they pick up and ques start at 20 min falling towards 10 min as we near primetime 
 
Credd costing 30-40 plat on eu is true, but I also know exactly who's fault it is that they are that high. YoU might think it's just the general eu consensus that Credd is that much,but the truth is that it's all one persons doing. He/she seized an opportunity and the consequences is the current Credd prices on eu	
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Credd costing 30-40 plat on eu is true, but I also know exactly who's fault it is that they are that high. YoU might think it's just the general eu consensus that Credd is that much,but the truth is that it's all one persons doing. He/she seized an opportunity and the consequences is the current Credd prices on eu
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eu is notes bad as depicted above.
10 People at cx ah? Wrong unless it's 8 am in the morning there is at least 20-30 people hanging around that area in thayd..
 
LaSt I qued for pvp i was in que for max 10 min. Ofc you'll have que time unknown in the mornings, but at around noon they pick up and ques start at 20 min falling towards 10 min as we near primetime
 
Credd costing 30-40 plat on eu is true, but I also know exactly who's fault it is that they are that high. YoU might think it's just the general eu consensus that Credd is that much,but the truth is that it's all one persons doing. He/she seized an opportunity and the consequences is the current Credd prices on eu
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			If no one knows numbers how do you know we have half of everything that us have?	
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eu is notes bad as depicted above.
10 People at cx ah? Wrong unless it's 8 am in the morning there is at least 20-30 people hanging around that area in thayd..
 
LaSt I qued for pvp i was in que for max 10 min. Ofc you'll have que time unknown in the mornings, but at around noon they pick up and ques start at 20 min falling towards 10 min as we near primetime
 
Credd costing 30-40 plat on eu is true, but I also know exactly who's fault it is that they are that high. YoU might think it's just the general eu consensus that Credd is that much,but the truth is that it's all one persons doing. He/she seized an opportunity and the consequences is the current Credd prices on eu
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If no one knows numbers how do you know we have half of everything that us have?
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On one hand you say it's not that bad and then you are saying ONE person is influencing the whole EU CREDD market.
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If no one knows numbers how do you know we have half of everything that us have?
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The game needs exposure and Twitch.TV is an excellent way for it to get some.  It's like one of the busiest sites on the internet.
 
Anyways, a big name streamer was streaming WS today getting it a look, over 2k people watching him play for a couple hours and liking what they saw.  This is what it needs TBH, but I don't know if there is enough people that will do it.	
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			2 hours in queue for vet dungeons as a tank and no pop....on a Saturday at prime time...	
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I've noticed I get instant queues as a healer across the board - low level and 50, while I'd heard tanks get less luck.
 
Maybe this game just needs more people willing to heal.	
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they had been saying the same in TERA and AION too when i was playing.[/size]
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Make the game Buy 2 play 
Housing stuff 
Armor skinsWeapon skinsDye boxes with 2-5 random dyes in itReal money to Plat exchange like what GW2 uses and it works ( helps avoid plat sellers )MountsMount skinsPaid race/faction changesjust some ideas :/ if it goes F2P this all can be done and more.
 
lets face it this game is doing sooo bad population wise that i just can't believe it won't go F2P soon. i basicaly expect it this year sadly :/i mean a buy 2 play game like GW2 is making more money then this a Buy and Sub game looooooooooli gonna sub to help support this good game but i don't think this will go anywhere like this.	
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I've noticed I get instant queues as a healer across the board - low level and 50, while I'd heard tanks get less luck.
 
Maybe this game just needs more people willing to heal.
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			I should add this is Entity-Exile. Dominion side could be the exact opposite. I find it really unlikely that so few people are queueing that pops don't happen, though.	
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I should add this is Entity-Exile. Dominion side could be the exact opposite. I find it really unlikely that so few people are queueing that pops don't happen, though.
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Edits in orange.
 
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Make the game Buy 2 play - No.  At least, not yet.  Keep subs if this is done. 
Housing stuff - Drop 5. 
Armor skins - Drop 5.Weapon skins - Drop 5.Dye boxes with 2-5 random dyes in it - Why?Real money to Plat exchange like what GW2 uses and it works ( helps avoid plat sellers ) - Plat sellers still exist?  Also, please read up on CREDD.Mounts - More?Mount skins - Why additional mounts AND mount skins?  We have mount variants.Paid race/faction changes - Interferes with class/race restrictions.  Can't make a Granok Engineer into an Aurin.just some ideas :/ if it goes F2P this all can be done and more. - Yeah, and instead of Carbine working on the core game, we just get development on cash shop fluff.
 
lets face it this game is doing sooo bad population wise that i just can't believe it won't go F2P soon. i basicaly expect it this year sadly :/ - Logging in says otherwise.  We'll see what the year brings.i mean a buy 2 play game like GW2 is making more money then this a Buy and Sub game looooooooool - GW2 had the entire sub base of GW1 to feed off of, and spits out 2 week cadence releases by taxing their development team.  All that glitters is not gold.i gonna sub to help support this good game but i don't think this will go anywhere like this. - That's why Carbine is constantly improving the game.
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Sorry to burst the doom and gloom bubble, but yesterday the amount playing was awesome!
 
OK you can go back to being all negative again.	
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Edits in orange.
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As for improving, they have put in some really nice changes but if we look for example at pvp, the core system they have now for that is simply not working and they keep extending on that. I don't see how drop 5 will "save" pvp although it was to be a pvp focussed drop.
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Sorry to burst the doom and gloom bubble, but yesterday the amount playing was awesome!
 
OK you can go back to being all negative again.
 
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What's your problem, guys? Thanks to the 10 day trial, the low level areas are stuffed with new players. In the past 2 weeks we got more than 20 new players in our guild and everyone states that they came back and were super positively surprised about how the game changed since they left.
 
I admit it was bad before cd 3 hit, but those are past days. The game seems a lot healthier recently.
 
And no, B2P and F2P won't help at all. Please ALWAYS consider that the money you spend is PAYMENT for the people working on this, which helps them to be able to continue their work. This results in all the fixes and Patches we've seen, the all-new content and improvement everyone wants to see. If you change it into B2P, the creators of said content will change priorities into customes, housing, dyes, ect. that need to be purchased with money so they can, once again, keep doing on what they do. However, the real content everyone should be interested in will become some kind of side-projects to keep it all updated.
 
Also, srsly, going to the cinema will cost you the same amount of money, but it doesn't last 30 days. So what's it gonna be?	
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Drop 5 isn't going to "save" PvP. There will never be a drop that fixes everything. It will, however, start setting things on a path, on that Carbine has stated they'll be continuing to work on.
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Also, srsly, going to the cinema will cost you the same amount of money, but it doesn't last 30 days. So what's it gonna be?
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Drop 5 isn't going to "save" PvP. There will never be a drop that fixes everything. It will, however, start setting things on a path, on that Carbine has stated they'll be continuing to work on.
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It's simply going the same path and so far it is not working... they need to do a 180 with their PvP but they won't.
 
 
If you read back you see comments about other games that are free to play and release more content then Wildstar.
As for the fluf... 55 pets in the next drop ;)
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Agreed, People saying it will take away from 'real development', but the tons of pets, costumes and other fluff items don't now?  
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100% agreeing with this, it voices a lot of my thoughts and many of them here on the forum as well i think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsQNoZxfS_o	
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100% agreed again ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsQNoZxfS_o
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Costumes are really important though because there's a serious lack of good ones :D Collecting costumes is an important part of nowadays MMOS.
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they put new costumes in.. (protostar, exile commander, medic, wounded patient, cowboy/rancher etc etc)
 
its just that players don't give a f about them.
 
that is even more worrying.
hopefully pets and "particle effects" coming later can get the hype going.
 
wildstar is one of the first mmo that i see most people not caring at all about farming/collecting costumes,pets,mounts....
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I love Fevir's Canadian ass, but this video comes off as butthurt, to me.
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they put new costumes in.. (protostar, exile commander, medic, wounded patient, cowboy/rancher etc etc). its just that players don't give a f about them.
that is even more worrying.
hopefully pets and "particle effects" coming later can get the hype going. wildstar is one of the first mmo that i see most people not caring at all about farming/collecting costumes,pets,mounts....
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Thats why there is a Rant warning ^^
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100% agreeing with this, it voices a lot of my thoughts and many of them here on the forum as well i think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsQNoZxfS_o
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they put new costumes in.. (protostar, exile commander, medic, wounded patient, cowboy/rancher etc etc). its just that players don't give a f about them.
that is even more worrying.
hopefully pets and "particle effects" coming later can get the hype going. wildstar is one of the first mmo that i see most people not caring at all about farming/collecting costumes,pets,mounts....
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I've been going through the pets on the PTR but there is no indication what so ever where how to get them which is a shame really.
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Maybe WS player base is just so #Hardcore? :P
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I ... what ... I don't ... get ...
 
Dude. What?
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... Really? How are you going through the pets then?
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In the menu (left bottom icon) it has a new window called collectibles it shows you all the pets and also your mounts, it shows a preview of them even for those you dont have, but like said no hints are given how or where to get them.
 
 
Same here but overall it's more like oh that dropped item looks cool what can i match it with, rather then oh i need to get that costume and i need to run that and that dungeon for it to get it.
The collecting part is not really there.
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glad to see that for the pets they actually put a "catalogue". i guess i am ok with the fact that they don't tell you where it drops from as long as they actually tell you it exist.
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Blade and Soul did it slightly different from GW2, there you have complete outfits and they have an in game catalog with the location where to get the outfits.
Some are quite hard to get and they become a way to show off your achievement, because almost everyone knows where to get the outfits and how hard some are to get.
I know it's far more limiting then what Wildstar has but it's just so much fun to collect them all ^^
Some are quite stupid though... but can't help but laugh :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqAlmsMzaws
 
 
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 wildstar kind of hide their costumes in different locations...   i find it is more about "do the best with what you looted and came across" instead of "hunt for what you want" as it should probably be.
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???
 
 
Boobies are practically money printers, business 101, chief.
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allright, aside the fact that B&S costumes are a bit... juvenile (not that it is bad per say), i think the designers did a good job with them considering their goals. they look "good".
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I thought you meant nekkid as hell and booby filled, my bad.
 
 
I have a hard time understanding your posts...
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maybe it is a word used more often in Latin rooted languages (french, italian, spanish).
 
adjective
1.of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or suitable or intended for youngpersons:juvenile books.
2.
young; youthful:juvenile years.
3.immature; childish; infantile:His juvenile tantrums are not in keeping with his age.
 
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Hey folks lets get back on track please. 
 
Thank you. 
- Team WildStar 	
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Hey folks lets get back on track please. 
 
Thank you. 
- Team WildStar 
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allright, aside the fact that B&S costumes are a bit... juvenile (not that it is bad per say), i think the designers did a good job with them considering their goals. they look "good".
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It fits the story, it starts with you being an apprentice at a Dojo and you are getting your first weapon and all of that and then suddenly the dojo gets raided, and that's where the adventure starts.
It's overall quite anime like and the combat and story goes along with that.
 
This the intro scene to give you an idea and there are numerous of these kind of cutscene it really sets the mood and story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoy8yQSe0qI
 
But yeah Wildstar is lacking end game content really, how strange that might sound... there are enough instances and they are really good but it simply gets boring after 100 timed you do them.
In gw2 i often roamed around doing random things discovering places on the map and things like that, doing dungeons to collect tokens for the outfit and pop on pvp or wvw if i wanted more action. there is always someone there to play with. In wildstar you are more often then not waiting in thayd for a queue to pop...
 
As for people not subbing, like Fevir said in his video, the 1 week trail simply isn't enough and then end content is very different then leveling in this game.
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At this point, what had to be said has been said, i noticed a lot of good ideas even if this post wasn't meant to receive that amount of replies..
Chillia, i think it's time for you to tell us if there's something under work at Carabine to involve new players in to the game and maybe, also some thought about our posts would be appreciated 
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-gw2 world is bigger.
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i guess its a raid focused game, a small budget and sub based, pour all the money into endgame raids + extra fluffs to do on the side (like pets/toys)...
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If it's going to be a raid focused game, they have a lot of work to do. To be brutally honest, they are a buggy mess. I still have fun in them, but one can only imagine how many others simply wont get past all the bugs. Furthermore, the lack of certain QoL things in place for raiders is pretty serious. Locking gear to SD means that those who can't raid on Tues are SoL, the lockout system is prohibitive, food/buffs clearing each death, ect. Hell, many, many one-shot mechanics are egregiously overtuned thanks to no battle raising. For example, Lattice is always a struggle.
 
Not just the raids themselves either. As a Healsinger, almost half my LAS is bugged in some way. Even stat balance with Focus is fundamentally screwy. As is, either you never worry about focus at all or you'll go OOM in no time flat. That's horrid, and is a total joke compared to other MMOs.
 
That's the issue with a raid focused game. It has to be very well polished in order to actually pull people from other MMOs. 
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It's not only that but it was fun to go back to the lower levels, there was replay value there and world bosses where real world bosses which actually dropped nice loot you could use or needed for crafting.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
 
Speaking as an RPer, I won't buy it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
GW2 had the entire playerbase of GW1 to pull from to begin with, as well.  They're a long-established studio with previous releases.  I don't think the comparison is fair.
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Alright since they seem sensitive on new players making these topics ill post here.
 
As someone whos a few days into the game ive noticed two things:
 
Game is much better than I had anticipated, quality wise and fun wise.
Im more or less alone.
 
So theres a lot of content being dangled in front of me that I just cant do, because theres no one else around.  The people who I do see are supervets on an alt or whatever.  Most of my attempts to socialize in places other than ilum have been met with silence.
 
Since the game is definitely a decent game, if not great, the lack of population is concerning.  More or less do I want to keep playing to find out endgame is as thin (due to low playerbase) as ive been told.  Warplots that don't war, battlegrounds that pop occasionally, and a handful of raid guilds active.
 
in my locked thread (id have posted on this instead if I saw the thread) I mentioned my preference for pay to play, its why im here tbh.  Problem is, the business model wars were clearly won by the free to play crowd, only two games remain that are in solid standings with subscriptions, both unique in their situation (EVE and WOW)
 
at this point id rather empty the floodgates, get some vibrant activity, and have people to play with and conversations and people to talk to while playing than a payment model I enjoy most.
 
Buy to play wont work, this game doesn't have a built in playerbase like ESO does, and it is working over there.
 
To say carbine focused on hardcore raiding and no one else...well...raiding is hardcore.  They have warplots and pvp which does suffice in other games.  I don't think this is really their fault, perhaps NCSoft could have marketed the game longer....
 
Bottom line, I don't see many (any) other totally new players, and truth be told, I don't see much reason for them to stick around with a subscription given how low game activity is, on the one active mega server.
 
I get there are some die hards here who would rather see the game shuttered than have it go free, believe me, I hate free to play, I hate the people it brings, and I hate the business model as a whole.  Thing is, this game is really fun, its really well made, whats wrecking it for me is that it feels like warhammer online did 8 months before they went down for good....a small vocal veteran scene, and not a real new player in game.
 
Its a hard pill to swallow....but this game needs zero bars to entry and a big marketing campaign to go with it.  Hopefully they don't go the EA route like they did with SWTOR where people who paid for collector box sets and put in 6 months of subs all of a sudden had to rebuy the game piece by piece and still pay a sub for most of it.  Tera did the conversion right, giving bonuses and gifts to their paying subscription base.
 
Either way.... I can tell you as a new player who really digs this game....it needs more people more than it needs anything else right now.  The f2p protestors won the war, as much as that pains me, but no one in their right mind is going to pay $40+ for the box like I did a few days ago, then pay a subscription, for a game that's so very clearly in need of free to pay to fill the servers.	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
 
Either way.... I can tell you as a new player who really digs this game....it needs more people more than it needs anything else right now.  The f2p protestors won the war, as much as that pains me, but no one in their right mind is going to pay $40+ for the box like I did a few days ago, then pay a subscription, for a game that's so very clearly in need of free to pay to fill the servers.
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We have a warplot but it got bugged and it was locked for 3 weeks so we couldn't use it.Also the upkeep of the warplot is higher then the income so you can not maintain one.... It's constantly these little things that keep spoiling the fun :(
 
{| class="blockquote"
I'd love to see the numbers; I remember waaaaaaaaaay back that one of the devs said Wildstar only needs about 500K subscribers to be profitable, is it true? I don't know, do they have the numbers I don't know that either. I do know currently the MMOland is dying.
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What I always wondered why a developer just couldn't make a F2P server and a premium server, that seems the most logical solution. 
I honestly wouldn't mind if there was a F2P server with an item mall, heck let them *cupcake* up their equal game play, just let me pay a monthly sub, make it 20 euro's for all I care, Nothing in real life can keep me amused and busy for a month straight, well not for that amount anyway. 
 
But I doubt they will ever do something like that. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
What I always wondered why a developer just couldn't make a F2P server and a premium server, that seems the most logical solution. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
In gw2 i often roamed around doing random things discovering places on the map and things like that, doing dungeons to collect tokens for the outfit and pop on pvp or wvw if i wanted more action. there is always someone there to play with. In wildstar you are more often then not waiting in thayd for a queue to pop...
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im not sure about NCSoft, they seem to really like the free to play thing, even though they seem to have wanted all their titles to be pay to play (forget was aion NCSoft? I know the lineage games were pay to play at one point)
 
As much as I loathe the free games, I would be much happier in this game with lots of people around.  I think this game is well made enough that if you took away the paywall people just giving it a try would like it enough to stick around.
 
The downside of course is that the community will be flooded with people I despise, youll get tons of people complaining about whats being sold since the game itself isn't being sold, and youll have to divert development into things people want to buy.
 
At this point, as one of the very few actual new players, I think that fixing the dead early game zones, and making it so that endgame is well stocked with tons of guilds of every type, would be a better pay off for all the downsides a free game bring with it.
 
Thing is, they would have to market it heavily, and they would need to figure out a way to "compensate" people who have paid.  Give the subscribers the whole game as it stands, none of that buying inventory or character slots or hotbars for past paying players, then the right thing to do would be to give a bonus cash shop credit amount based on how many months you've subbed (I want to see the guy whos been subbed since launch get a nice stack of credits for cash shop stuff)
 
Theres a right a wrong way to transition to free...and this game...its good enough to make it, just needs to get rid of that paywall *its gonna go free anyway so just wait* mentality.  The reason there is this stigma to begin with is why I hate people in general, but its there, and it needs to be addressed.
 
For the record, if I thought this game was too average, or not very good, id think pay to play would be the best option to keep the game on life support.	
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I've read just about every topic pertaining to this subject since I started playing wildstar, but kept my opinions to myself on it.
 
I just recently came back, had to stop due to RL issues not because I disliked the game, and what I've been seeing is a fit sad really. I'm a dominion Warrior on Entity and Illium seems less populated than it was when I left and Evindra was still my home server. 
 
I'm mostly indifferent to P2P/B2P/F2P. All of them have benefits and flaws in my opinion and some games implement them well, while others are just awful (cough)dragons prophet(cough). Anyway, Wildstar is by far the best MMO I've played in many years as far as fun and challenge goes, and I really want to see more players in it. I honestly would love it to stay a sub game, but the more I look around the more I think it just doesn't have the subs. I could be wrong and just everyone really hates dominion, but I doubt it.
 
Whatever Carbine/NCSOFT decide to do with the game I plan to still play, I just really want to see more people playing, so here's to mostly just hoping that things really are on the up swing and I'm just not on during the better pop times.	
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Too many MMO's already F2P/B2P, Pay 2 play rarely works in todays standards unless you have a household name everyone knows(looking at final fantasy and Warcraft).
 
Game won't get anymore populated, I rather have a B2P than a F2P.	
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Here let's just put it this way.  15$ a month is the equivalent to 2 hours of work at a minimum wage job.  It's the equivalent to 2 big mac combos. and less than 2 movie tickets.
 
The people that feel they aren't getting what they want out of this game, IE, PvPers, casuals, etc, don't want to pay that nominal sum of money for this game.  The problem here is pretty easy to understand.
 
Carbine needs to focus on capturing the mmo casual / pvp audience if they are interested in achieving a populated and subscriber filled game.  Right now they do a couple of things right --- raids, and soon costumes.  There is a reason why they've shifted their focus.
 
When you pay with a sub model.  You expect certain things.  You expect regular content drops.  You expect regular bug free patches.  You expect to be able to do what you want.  That's why Carbine gets so much flak for the mistakes of the past.  They've been producing the quality of a f2p game, but charging people for it.
 
It seems CRB's business strategy is to capture that playerbase, and market themselves.  Just let them do it, regardless of subscriber model.  IF this were f2p, everyone would just be telling you to play something else if you don't like it, and to come back when they do.
 
Subscription implies investment.  Just because you're paying for a service, as is, doesn't mean people don't feel like they're investing in the company.  Hell, I've paid for 2 accounts for a while because I know Carbine needs the money / subs.  I expect results out of them.  
 
tldr; Model change doesnt matter if the game doesn't capture the populace. 	
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I think this is something most people forget 
 
{| class="blockquote"
Here let's just put it this way.  15$ a month is the equivalent to 2 hours of work at a minimum wage job.  It's the equivalent to 2 big mac combos. and less than 2 movie tickets.
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{| class="blockquote"
I think this is something most people forget 
I mean really what more do people want? What can give you a month of entertainment for 15 bucks? This is also something that has baffled me in terms of how this price hasn't changed over the past decade. 
 
I mean stuff is getting more expesive in real life, why not our sub? I would gladly pay 20 bucks for this game a month, it still would be a sound investment ( entertainment wise ).
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{| class="blockquote"
I think this is something most people forget
 
I mean really what more do people want? What can give you a month of entertainment for 15 bucks? This is also something that has baffled me in terms of how this price hasn't changed over the past decade. 
 
I mean stuff is getting more expesive in real life, why not our sub? I would gladly pay 20 bucks for this game a month, it still would be a sound investment ( entertainment wise ).
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{| class="blockquote"
I spent $50 on fresh seafood for my wife and I last night. The pain is real...
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I mean really what more do people want? What can give you a month of entertainment for 15 bucks? This is also something that has baffled me in terms of how this price hasn't changed over the past decade. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think this is something most people forget
 
I mean really what more do people want? What can give you a month of entertainment for 15 bucks? This is also something that has baffled me in terms of how this price hasn't changed over the past decade. 
 
I mean stuff is getting more expesive in real life, why not our sub? I would gladly pay 20 bucks for this game a month, it still would be a sound investment ( entertainment wise ).
----
			I just returned with the 10 days trial... I found a lot of things really improved but there is a really BIG hole to make me resub..... the PVP 30mins and up with my low level... and the PVP server is just a desert ( / cry ) I heard there are comming a lot of changes on PVP in the next Drop... if that drop iss good I will resub, I prefer pay to play to become this a P2W like every Korean F2P game or Swtor	
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{| class="blockquote"
I just returned with the 10 days trial... I found a lot of things really improved but there is a really BIG hole to make me resub..... the PVP 30mins and up with my low level... and the PVP server is just a desert ( / cry ) I heard there are comming a lot of changes on PVP in the next Drop... if that drop iss good I will resub, I prefer pay to play to become this a P2W like every Korean F2P game or Swtor
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I just returned with the 10 days trial... I found a lot of things really improved but there is a really BIG hole to make me resub..... the PVP 30mins and up with my low level... and the PVP server is just a desert ( / cry ) I heard there are comming a lot of changes on PVP in the next Drop... if that drop iss good I will resub, I prefer pay to play to become this a P2W like every Korean F2P game or Swtor
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I just returned with the 10 days trial... I found a lot of things really improved but there is a really BIG hole to make me resub..... the PVP 30mins and up with my low level... and the PVP server is just a desert ( / cry ) I heard there are comming a lot of changes on PVP in the next Drop... if that drop iss good I will resub, I prefer pay to play to become this a P2W like every Korean F2P game or Swtor
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{| class="blockquote"
I think this is something most people forget
 
I mean really what more do people want? What can give you a month of entertainment for 15 bucks? This is also something that has baffled me in terms of how this price hasn't changed over the past decade. 
 
I mean stuff is getting more expesive in real life, why not our sub? I would gladly pay 20 bucks for this game a month, it still would be a sound investment ( entertainment wise ).
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{| class="blockquote"
Transfer to entity (Its totally free and practically instant) and wait till 50 to queue pvp.
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Well, "yes" and "no".
 
Yes- $15 is pretty cheap for a month's worth of entertainment, and can be a good value if done right.
 
No- You're not just paying $15 a month for an MMO subscription. If you bought the box for $60 (like a lot of people did when it first came out) then you still have to add whatever you pay subscription-wise to that price-tag. 60 becomes 75, then 90, then 105 and on down the line. If you subscribe for 4 months, you have now spent an extra $60 on top of the original $60. Now you've spent $120 on a $60 dollar game.
 
Sticking with the old "apples to apples" comparison, that is $60 that you could have used to purchase another game, which could equate to however much enjoyment/entertainment. Taking into consideration that there are some pretty good B2P games out there, it becomes harder and harder for people to justify paying a sub-fee for one game, when they can instead use that money to go out and purchase another game for their library while still having unmitigated access to the B2P game that they bought months before. 
 
That's just the environment that Carbine is operating in with today's market, and could easily be a valid explanation for why subscriber numbers don't seem to be that high - too much competition for the customer's, our, time and money. As great as Wildstar is, it's not the only great game out there. As beneficial as P2P is for the developers, it becomes increasingly difficult to justify for a lot of customers as the B2P and F2P games steadily increase in quality and number while also providing a similar level of service. 
 
How many people out there bought GW2 and TSW as B2P and are still logging in to play those games, buying the DLC as it comes out, and still enjoying their time with those games years after they were released without spending half the money that is demanded by a P2P business model? I would venture to say quite a few people, and many of those people (myself included) are also playing Wildstar (for now).
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{| class="blockquote"
Actually a lot of people like me spend substantially more than $15 a month on GW2. I'm willing to bet that if Carbine introduced a cash shop with silly vanity items and mounts they would rake in the dough without ever changing their subscription policy.
 
I actually think this would be good for people who aren't subbing yet because the extra cash Carbine scoops in can be used to make more content. (And they will do more than just spend time making cash shop items.)
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{| class="blockquote"
Meh, I don't know. Blizzard's approach has never really sat right with me. Charging me $15 a month is..."Ok" as long as I have full access to everything that the game has to offer, including all the goofy cosmetic stuff. But charging me a monthly fee and then limiting certain items to the Cash shop just seems like a good way to slap customers in the face.
 
I'm more of the mindset that a developer should choose one approach or the other, but not both. After all, I played WoW for damn near the entire 10 years that it has been out and have spent about $1,200 on that game just in subscription fees since it came out in 2004. It kind of annoys me that they would say "Hey, on top of your $15 this month, if you spend an extra $10 you can get a mini-pet shaped like a tree!" or worse yet "If you spend a total of $40 this month you can get a flaming horse!".
 
I'm ok with buying mini-X-pacs from a company if I'm not currently paying monthly for more playable content outside of what I've already purchased, but if I'm already paying a company for a game, it just seems like a jerk-move to tell me I can't access everything in that game unless I crack open my wallet and funnel even more money into their account.
 
Maybe that's just me, but I never spend more than $15 a month on an MMO - business model aside - unless we're talking about a "full-blown, no kidding, this is like a whole new game" expansion pack.
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{| class="blockquote"
Plenty of people will, though. I think if it becomes game winning to have what's in the cash shop then yeah people get pissed. If it's a sparkle pony they just laugh, and the devs laugh along with them all the way to the bank.
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{| class="blockquote"
But, you are absolutely correct, there are people currently playing who would spend money on a cash shop along with paying a subscription fee, it just wouldn't do much to attract more players :(
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{| class="blockquote"
Many don't share your thoughts. Previous players who left, I being one of them(only on because of 10 day trial), do not find this game worth paying 15$ a month. When you go from 2 million sales with over 2 million ACTIVE people the first 2 months then suddenly the game goes less than 150k subs at most, something is wrong with what the game presents, not with the people who pay(or paid) for it.
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{| class="blockquote"
Too many MMO's already F2P/B2P, Pay 2 play rarely works in todays standards unless you have a household name everyone knows(looking at final fantasy and Warcraft).
 
Game won't get anymore populated, I rather have a B2P than a F2P.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm just here for the 10 day free trial, and yes the game does look improved, just not the population.
 
I still will not be subbing back up though, and will wait for more options down the road. I greatly dislike every single f2p mmo I have ever tried out, just horrible. Wildstar is not worthy of a sub+box cost, and not many mmo's out there are anymore unless tied heavily to a invested nostalgic IP like the titles mentioned above. 
 
A B2p model GW2 cash shop would be the best direction for this game.
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{| class="blockquote"
Server, faction?
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{| class="blockquote"
Dominion PvP 
 
Played in beta and subbed up til about six months ago w/a 50 Esper and Stalker.
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{| class="blockquote"
Dominion PvP 
 
Played in beta and subbed up til about six months ago w/a 50 Esper and Stalker.
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{| class="blockquote"
due to a few unfortunate circumstances, all players are on the PvE server regardless of stance on pvp and pve. its a comprimise, but pop looks very healthy on the pve server, better every day with all these people coming back. free xfers are available on the character select screen.
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{| class="blockquote"
Warplots, PvP/WZ queues, world pvp, and arena win trading? any/all of that still an issue? I can understand mmo forums cup half empty outlook, but these forums don't look much different when it comes to those topics/content/features from when I stopped playing. To bring my post to topic, that's why I bought Wildstar back at release, and the reason I wouldn't pay a sub now if not fixed.
 
Not a fan of dailies, dungeons, or raids. Thought the housing was great though, really enjoyed those custom dueling arenas to add a positive note.
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{| class="blockquote"
 
Not a fan of dailies, dungeons, or raids. Thought the housing was great though, really enjoyed those custom dueling arenas to add a positive note.
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{| class="blockquote"
Same ol' shit. Broken record. We can complain and shit our pants all we want. Carbine ain't listening to PVPers at all. Not sure if there's any real PVP designer at the studio at all. 
 
Warplots - Dead?
PVP Ques - You like PBGs? Then enjoy all you want.
World PVP - PVP server dead, again.
Arenas - Dead. The 1800 gear was the only thing us PVPers had to incentivized the arenas. 
 
Freebies 1800 gears for all. 
 
Live and die by the community. RIP PVP.
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{| class="blockquote"
All of those are legitimate concerns except the 1800 gear. Removing the gear gap is one of the best possible things that Carbine can do for pvp. No gap = more players, plain and simple.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
i agree but you now have the issue of no long term incentive to keep queuing and also you now have 0 incentive to do rated games of any sort. im sure there are things that will be there, but at the moment we have none.
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{| class="blockquote"
I've seen the top players saying that. Definitely there ought to be some kind of incentives for pvp, it just shouldn't be gear stats. Awesome gear skins maybe? Cool mounts and titles, something like that. Creating another power gap will be the nail in the coffin though. I know you remember the flood of "I quit" threads talking about going up against teams in 1800 armor and weapons.
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{| class="blockquote"
like i said, i agree, i just would not want to overly sugar coat the state of pvp just to have people get their hopes up and leave again. it seems to be a very fickle crowd.
----
			a good alternative is the WoW one, a 2nd currency for PvP for the old "1800" items a wildstar version of "Conquest" + "honor" also, exclusive customes for 1800 ratings, etc , some rewards but not the basic items to play	
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{| class="blockquote"
i agree but you now have the issue of no long term incentive to keep queuing and also you now have 0 incentive to do rated games of any sort.  im sure there are things that will be there, but at the moment we have none.
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{| class="blockquote"
That will be fixed with the new season and their change to how PvP rewards work (rated gear rewards will be cosmetic unique skins). This eliminates the gear gap issue while providing incentive to players to get to whatever rating.
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{| class="blockquote"
at least, wildstar will have a solid bunch of content for a new player wave once they turn F2P.
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{| class="blockquote"
Is is even remotely possible for you to make ONE SINGLE POST without invoking F2P? Maybe? Just like ... every once in a while to shake things up?
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{| class="blockquote"
For this reason forums should be only accessible when having a running subscription.
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{| class="blockquote"
so that all of us 10 posters can have fun together ? hide behind a rock in a cozy little place outside of reality ?
 
by Magran's fire! I say burn the field dry. let the scars remind them of their mistakes.
 
trample everything so that it is obvious that it is a ruin. only then can it be reborn AS A F2P GAME.
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{| class="blockquote"
there ya go, bro. Fixt that for you.
 
*epic eyeroll*
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{| class="blockquote"
it will need more than f2p...
but i doubt they will pull a ff14 trick...
so yeah... f2p is the easiest, fastest way to salvage a bit of money from the pockets of the corpses left to dry in the burnt fields.
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{| class="blockquote"
You know, I was checking Reddit and you have an account there as well spewing the same F2P crap you do here, how do you think you are helping the problem?
 
shrugs
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{| class="blockquote"
You know, I was checking Reddit and you have an account there as well spewing the same F2P crap you do here, how do you think you are helping the problem?
 
shrugs
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{| class="blockquote"
He does the same thing on Facebook, I'm pretty sure. Some joker got into it with me last week over this same subject. The minute I called him by his forum handle, he stopped posting.  :D
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{| class="blockquote"
by burning everything down so that it can be rebuild anew.
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			I didn't think I'd ever say such a thing, but Jeff now speaks for me in this thread.  :lol:	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
He does the same thing on Facebook, I'm pretty sure. Some joker got into it with me last week over this same subject. The minute I called him by his forum handle, he stopped posting.  :D
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ugh I can't believe I'm agreeing with an Aurin...
I feel dirty...	
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{| class="blockquote"
Yeah, well it's time to move on and find some game that does what you want instead of trying to burn down the one that many of us here like.
 
I'm not normally that guy to tell people to leave, but when you talk about "burning down everything" so you can refashion it in your image, then I have little respect. Just move on. There are lots of F2P games out there for you with bustling communities that I'm sure you'd love a lot more.
 
I'm seeing lots of people coming in the game now that will replace what you've left behind, and they all have a more positive attitude and are here for what it IS, not what they imagine it should be.
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{| class="blockquote"
"Much as she dreaded admitting it, her wards were waning. The notion of admitting weakness before him appalled her, but maybe he was right. The universe was flawed and worsening rapidly. Perhaps the only way forward was to start over. The sooner she accepted it, the quicker they could rebuild."
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{| class="blockquote"
Someones been watching to much Anime, Seriously quit it. 
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{| class="blockquote"
exactly how i mentioned i would.
by burning everything down so that it can be rebuild anew.
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			Wish the ignore feature could completely hide *cupcake* :(	
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{| class="blockquote"
Wish the ignore feature could completely hide *cupcake* :(
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