Report 1496

Report #1496
Skillset: Knighthood Skill: 2h-Strike-Modifiers
 Org: Serenguard Status: Completed Jun 2016
Furies' Decision:
Solution 1.
Problem: Currently, 2-handers must choose between afflicting and wounding within
a balance time, however 1-handers have the ability to do a 5-wound combo and an
affliction if they so choose. In the special report, 2-handers were given a
bonus 2 wounds to give a compensatory advantage. However, it turns out that even
with this tweak, it is counter-productive to use modifiers as a 2-hander, since
they still set you back on your wound building for little advantage. This
discourages the use of modifiers, except in groups or to fulfill insta-kill
requirements once wounds are high enough. This report aims to fix this, to
assist 2-hander hindering and encourage the use of lower level modifiers.
Solution #1: Allow for a way for 2-handers to wound and hit with a modifier at
 the same time. The wounding should be about 5 wounds, to make it
 equivalent to 2-handers.
Solution #2: Allow for a way for 2-handers to wound and hit with a modifier at
 the same time. The wounding should be about 6 wounds, half of
 what a wounding strike would do.
Player Comments:
---[Rivius on 5/27 @ 23:07 writes]:
I'm putting this report up to hear thoughts on this and brainstorm ideas. In its
current incarnation it's a very rough report, and I'm very open to feedback.
Right now, I know that there is a move of ice from 4 to 5 incoming, which we can
play with to see if that eliminates the issue. If it does, I'll delete this
report as well. What are your thoughts?
---[Cyndarin on 5/28 @ 00:46 writes]:
I guess I don't agree with the context of this report's problem, because while
it is correct, didn't two handers just get buffed to do more wounds than single
handers? It seems like this is part of the give and take. I'm not sure how I
feel about it, I'm still getting a grasp on what warriors can do.
---[Cyndarin on 5/28 @ 00:46 writes]:
My gut reaction is that this undermines the guiding principle of the design. One
or the other, not both.
---[Lerad on 5/28 @ 01:15 writes]:
I agree with Cyndarin's comment - if you allow two-handers to have the
versatility of choice that one-handers do, then whyfore do they need extra
wounding when they do their only-wounding attack? The idea is that two-handers
can burst out big afflictions faster than one-handers, but cannot give out two
afflictions at once. Because afflictions and wound curing are both on ice now,
the double affliction that one-handers can put out will make them out-wound two-
handers, but ONLY at the later stages of the fight, when they've built up enough
wounds to consistently pump out afflictions - which is also easier said than
done, anyway. I'd support, MAYBE, a very slight buff of two-hander wound rate to
make up for this, but as it is, with the drop in ice-wound curing, I'm
apprehensive of buffing two-hander wounding too much, which could catapult them
into astronomical levels. Another alternative is perhaps to give two-handers
stronger effects on hitting parry. Basically, buff heftysword/heftyaxe to give
them some supplement when they lose momentum to parry.
---[Xenthos on 5/28 @ 01:54 writes]:
I feel like the point of this is that 2-handers still won't be able to do 2
afflictions at a time with a single strike (whereas 1-hers can actually hit the
same body part / two different ones and do 2 affs). I don't think that being
able to do 1 affliction and 1 wound overrides that advantage / flexibility. I
actually think that this is an important addition for 2hers. *HOWEVER,* I am
fine with it just doing 5 wounds (same as a 1her doing a single hit and a single
aff), so this mode would not receive the extra wounding buff. It is still a
pretty serious disadvantage for 2hers that it's a single aff OR 2x wounds (plus
some), whereas 1hers can choose 2x wounds, wound & aff, or 2x affs.
---[Xenthos on 5/28 @ 01:59 writes]:
Basically, the 2h buff helps address some of the base disparity between the two
styles (more wounding in exchange for not being able to do as many affs in a
combo), but it does not address the underlying imbalance between options
whatsoever. 1hers are able to progress wounds & aff at the same time. 2hers
are not. A couple extra wounds per aff-less hit doesn't counter that at all.
Hopefully this helps clarify things a little bit!
---[Raeri on 5/28 @ 02:03 writes]:
Support for Solution 1.
---[Cyndarin on 5/28 @ 02:09 writes]:
I'm still not sure yet, but my minimum caveat is the wounds are applied AFTER
the affliction, not before
---[Synkarin on 5/28 @ 06:51 writes]:
Flexibility wise, One-handers still have the edge with regards to poisons even
should this go through. So, at most, with this change, 2-handers would have 2
affs and wounds, where a similiar 1 hander attack would be 3 affs and wounds.
The caveat of wounds applying afterwards really makes no sense here. I think the
biggest issue is (and you'll have to double check with Ieptix) that there really
isn't a feasible way with the code for this to work. It was initially brought up
when the overhaul was released.
---[Rivius on 5/28 @ 16:31 writes]:
Hrm, Ieptix asked during the special report if we wanted to go through with it.
I think it might be a coding possibility now, but that's always something we can
clarify.
---[Selna on 6/12 @ 03:14 writes]:
Perhaps there could be a skill added to 2hd skillsets for a double slash
maneuver. Power cost, two sets of wounds/poisons or a wound/affliction. This
could balance out the problem without having to overly tweak the entire weapon
system.
---[Xenthos on 6/13 @ 23:37 writes]:
How, exactly, does a power cost in order to be able to equal the no-power-cost
of 1h weapon basic attacks give parity?
---[Shedrin on 6/17 @ 23:09 writes]:
I support either Solution 1 or 2. Pre-Overhaul, 2h specs had various advantages
to balance this out. Most prominently, the afflictions they gave were generally
stronger (for example amputate), and more easily done (for example, PB tendon
having no requirements, and BM tendong requiring piercedleg), or advantages such
as the power moves being swings or Cavalier heft. Currently, 1h specs have
access to the same afflictions, with the 2h specs maybe getting them a bit
earlier. However, even with that, the fact that wounds must be built before any
affliction can be dealt, as opposed to simultaneously with wounds in the past,
means that the buildup period also naturally favours 1h specs as they get twice
the poisons. Personally, I also feel that Warriors are really boring when they
can't utilise any modifiers as they have to favour building wounds.