124303-want-more-players-lfrduty-finder-page-6

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== Content ==
			
The downside to LFR(s) FAR outweigh the positive to LFR(s).
 
Here's what it does:
 
1)  Further diminishes the social aspect of the game by placing even more content into a queue system.
 
2)  Teaches people that wiping isn't a part of raiding and that everything should be one-shot.  People leaving raids after one wipe in WoW was NEVER "a thing" before LFR.
 
3)  Creates a toxic environment where people AFK and get loot while other people do all the work.
 
4)  Reduces the life span of the content (and actually leads to LESS subscribers long-term because of it).
 
You can say all you want about the convenience of LFR, but it is one thing that absolutely helped to destroy the social and gameplay fabric of World of Warcraft.  I'm not against having multiple difficulties however, that aspect is fine, but introducing an LFR tool is NOT what should be done.
 
A better example is WoW's group finder tool.  This enables you to list yourself as looking for a raid or group for whatever it might be, or list your raid there so that other people can queue up for and join it.  This means if you lose one-person mid-raid you can replace them using that tool.  There is a very key distinction here between LFR and a group finder tool.  You're not just hitting a button, pressing accept, jumping in to a group with 19 other random people who you don't even talk to, literally play like you've spent one-day playing the game and get loot for it.  You're actively listing yourself or your raid group, joining, doing the raid normally, communicating with people while you do it and playing the game as best as you can to get loot.  THAT is the superior way of doing this.  It enforces and rewards player interaction and is much more conducive to creating a positive gaming environment.	
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People leaving raids after one wipe in WoW was NEVER "a thing" before LFR.
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Oh this is SO not true. XD
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Yes, it would be terrible if people decided to stay in the game and keep subscribing. I certainly hope the developers aren't doing anything that would encourage that, like making fun content that has broad accessibility and high replay value to accomodate the diverse needs of a large MMORPG playerbase.
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It is *absolutely* true.
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Going back to the last page: Option 1, so much option one. I've said it, you've said it, everyone's said it! Why we're being locked by instances and not by bosses anyway is a mystery to me...
 
I realize that it'd probably be a pain in the ass to change, but frankly, I think this is the big issue with the raids atm. We as players can make groups and lfg addons and whatnot but its the lockouts that are causing the biggest issues. Fixing that alone I think would make raids much more accessible to players without the available time to commit to several nights of raiding.	
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Going back to the last page: Option 1, so much option one. I've said it, you've said it, everyone's said it! Why we're being locked by instances and not by bosses anyway is a mystery to me...
 
I realize that it'd probably be a pain in the ass to change, but frankly, I think this is the big issue with the raids atm. We as players can make groups and lfg addons and whatnot but its the lockouts that are causing the biggest issues. Fixing that alone I think would make raids much more accessible to players without the available time to commit to several nights of raiding.
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 I definitely played well before LFR. A few expacs before LFR. There were absolutely people who left after the first wipe in a pug raid. Complain about how easy WoW's LFR is, but don't try and make up changes to community that were already there.
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In fact, the whole reason I kept repeating my assumptions was to see if they were accurate.
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Yeah. You were just checking to see if anyone would call you out. That's what you were doing, yep. 
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No. Yasfan, I'm done with you. You are not respectful in your conversation and you can't even afford me the courtesy of letting me express my own motives.
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I started raiding in WoW during Wrath. 
 
PUG's were VERY common.  However, you knew you'd better know the fights before you signed up for a PUG.  It wasn't faceroll easy.  (Well, any more than ICC was faceroll easy).
 
Where did this idea come from that grouping with strangers is synonymous with noobs?  I think there are a good many players that are great players, but (as is my case), just can't dedicate to raiding every tues and thursday from 6-10pm.  PUG's are usually the only way I can ever do raiding.  I never know from week to week when I might have 2-3 hours to raid.
 
Why can't you put together a LFR that is just an easy way to get a group together to do the regular content??  Why does it need to be dumbed down? 
 
In fact, it would be a nice to see an MMO develop a PUG finder instead of a LFR finder.  That way a raid leader can pick and choose who he wants on his raid.  And can kick accordingly if you don't match up to his criteria.
 	
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scottie, there is already an addon to facilitate organization and make it pug friendly, it will ocuppy the job  of oqueue but in wildstar, its still in develop and its disscussed here https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/123926-lfg-board-roadmap/ , its called LFG board and its still in develop phase but much of us use it. its stated than in his 1.3 phase it will have the same utility that has the premade group finder of other games like warcraft or FFXIV.
 
so download it and let the creator know your feedback it will be very usefull in developing the characteristic the comunnity needs	
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WildStar's stated design goals for raids are: hardcore for the 1%. Nowhere in there do I see mention of "broad accessibility." That's what the rest of the game is for.
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So much bickering here! I raid. This game's raids have challenged me like no other games I've raided in before. Of course, my previous raiding experience was LOTRo and TSW, so it's not really comparable. (Yes, I dabbled in WOW. No, I didn't raid there. I don't even think I ran dungeons. People on the internet were scary. I was new to MMOs. And female.)
 
I am in love with raids in Wildstar. Seriously in love. I love the folks I raid with. We have a good time (I think. I hope they have as much fun as I'm having!) We win! (sooner or later) We have raiders with disabilities, with jobs, with families, with infants, with things that come up - and still we muddle through. In fact, more often than not, we do really darn well. My team impresses me regularly. They are good people and good players. We aren't all besties, but we don't have drama, either. I'd venture that most people that raid are pretty normal folks with lives outside of gaming just like my guildies. They simply choose to spend a certain amount of time pursuing this hobby we call raiding.
 
I also don't think Frost was as #hardcore as some seem to think. When that first started, I thought it was hysterical and great way to both make a point (that the game would be challenging) and poke fun at the mentality of some gamers. Sad that sentiment is lost on so many.
 
Personally, I partake in content I enjoy, and I skip stuff I dislike. This is my free time and hobby, and I'll spend my time in it doing things I think are fun with people I like. The one opinion on LFR I do have is this: Timetravel and the dungeon and raid team have given us amazing content so far. AMAZING! If they do decide to implement some version of LFR, I have faith that it would be far more interesting than people are imagining.	
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I started raiding in WoW during Wrath. 
 
PUG's were VERY common.  However, you knew you'd better know the fights before you signed up for a PUG.  It wasn't faceroll easy.  (Well, any more than ICC was faceroll easy).
 
Where did this idea come from that grouping with strangers is synonymous with noobs?  I think there are a good many players that are great players, but (as is my case), just can't dedicate to raiding every tues and thursday from 6-10pm.  PUG's are usually the only way I can ever do raiding.  I never know from week to week when I might have 2-3 hours to raid.
 
Why can't you put together a LFR that is just an easy way to get a group together to do the regular content??  Why does it need to be dumbed down? 
 
In fact, it would be a nice to see an MMO develop a PUG finder instead of a LFR finder.  That way a raid leader can pick and choose who he wants on his raid.  And can kick accordingly if you don't match up to his criteria.
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I know this isn't 100% LFR but this patch note made me happy.
 
I would also still love to see an LFR, I hope they change adventures as well as dungeons for you not to have to run to the entrance. That would be a great time saver. 
Players no longer have to discover the entrances to each dungeon before gaining the ability to use LFG to find groups. Instead, they must simply reach the requisite level.
 
Basepop, minibosses, and bosses in Genetic Archives and Datascape no longer pull from World Loot tables.
Updated zone loot tables for Datascape and Genetic Archives to match the drops rates for Veteran dungeons	
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Group finder YES.
 
LFR NO.
 
For reasons discussed in my previous post.	
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Group finder YES.
 
LFR NO.
 
For reasons discussed in my previous post.
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A WoW like grouping tool is not only for Raiding. Its useful for any kind of content that requires or can be made as a group. Raids, Dungeons, Events, PvP, Adventures, World Bosses, Group Quests etc.
 
It doesn't needs to be an auto-matching tool. It just needs to be able to list your group, using some parameters (max number, char lvl, roles etc) and making clear what you are looking for. It also needs to auto update in order to show how many ppl are currently in the group and how many more & what roles are missing.
 
Such a tool, with a change in raid lock on boss loot instead of instance, will make everyone's life much easier and enjoyable.
 
Consider also this tool will became even more needed with every new content addition, as it will get even more difficult to find ppl for older content. This will be very annoying because it may be older content and no useful anymore gear wise, but having pets, toys, achievements, mounts, costumes etc will be something that you always want to do.	
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Perhaps it could be done in a fashion that avoids the pitfalls and makes the game welcoming to more people, that is what I think we all can agree on here, that we need more people.   
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A WoW like grouping tool is not only for Raiding. Its useful for any kind of content that requires or can be made as a group. Raids, Dungeons, Events, PvP, Adventures, World Bosses, Group Quests etc.
 
It doesn't needs to be an auto-matching tool. It just needs to be able to list your group, using some parameters (max number, char lvl, roles etc) and making clear what you are looking for. It also needs to auto update in order to show how many ppl are currently in the group and how many more & what roles are missing.
 
Such a tool, with a change in raid lock on boss loot instead of instance, will make everyone's life much easier and enjoyable.
 
Consider also this tool will became even more needed with every new content addition, as it will get even more difficult to find ppl for older content. This will be very annoying because it may be older content and no useful anymore gear wise, but having pets, toys, achievements, mounts, costumes etc will be something that you always want to do.
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A WoW like grouping tool is not only for Raiding. Its useful for any kind of content that requires or can be made as a group. Raids, Dungeons, Events, PvP, Adventures, World Bosses, Group Quests etc.
 
It doesn't needs to be an auto-matching tool. It just needs to be able to list your group, using some parameters (max number, char lvl, roles etc) and making clear what you are looking for. It also needs to auto update in order to show how many ppl are currently in the group and how many more & what roles are missing.
 
Such a tool, with a change in raid lock on boss loot instead of instance, will make everyone's life much easier and enjoyable.
 
Consider also this tool will became even more needed with every new content addition, as it will get even more difficult to find ppl for older content. This will be very annoying because it may be older content and no useful anymore gear wise, but having pets, toys, achievements, mounts, costumes etc will be something that you always want to do.
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Slyjeff the community is asking you to finish your addon, please LFG board will be the chosen one to bring balance to the forums
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And of course everyone knows, if they will add raid-finder -> will require nerfing raids or a tons of shit will be out here on forums, like it was with silver dungeons, and it happened.
 
Just create a group-finder board, was asked like 1 year ago to do it.	
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Future Roadmap:
 
v1.2
 
Description: this will allow you to sign up for groups if you both have the add on
 
-Will allow you to sign up for a group created by another user by sending a message to that user
-Signed up members will appear in the group
-After people sign up, updates will be sent to all others who are part of the group so they can see how the group is filling up
 
v1.3
Description: add some more details so people can make informed decisions about whether the group will work
 
-will add information about the person signing up. They can include details such as AP/Gear/ETC, but will definitely include class and role
 
 
 
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what about an LFR that is NOT dumbed down ? 
just helps people make/get in groups waaaaaaaaaaaay faster to run the Current Raids ?the only thing i see people cry abbout is dumbing down..... it does not need to be dumbed down.not ALL lfr in games are dumbed down.	
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what about an LFR that is NOT dumbed down ?
 
just helps people make/get in groups waaaaaaaaaaaay faster to run the Current Raids ?
 
the only thing i see people cry abbout is dumbing down..... it does not need to be dumbed down.
 
not ALL lfr in games are dumbed down.
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You can't. The raids in WildStar, especially, are simply not winnable without coordination, communication and practice.
 
As I said before, if you can't even put together a group to run the raid, you're not going to have any success at all.
 
Raids need more than warm bodies.
 
There can never be an auto-matching tool for raids in WildStar.
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you cant know that people might actualy start learning how to raid with a not dumbed down LFR.
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Slyjeff the community is asking you to finish your addon, please LFG board will be the chosen one to bring balance to the forums
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Raid locking, remove it and LFR would be interesting.
 
If not, I don't care.	
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No, sadly, I do know.
 
There's nothing stopping them from doing it now. But they're not.
 
And again, if their problem is having enough social interaction and organization to even put together a group, they will not have the wherewithal to actually fight in any of the raids.
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A big No Thank you from me.
 
Here's the thing, I don't care about people having a face roll raid to do. If that's what your heart desires go crazy. What I do NOT want to see is multiple difficulty levels of the same raid.
 
I don't want to see, easy data scape, normal data scape, and hard data scape. I just want data scape. If you want easier raid content with a queue component, make it a separate thing.
 
 
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How about a Protostar Games style training raid?
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i don't see a single drawback in it.
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I do. Some people, like myself, specifically want an easier difficulty raid that can be completed with a random group of strangers with different skill levels.
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I do. Some people, like myself, specifically want an easier difficulty raid that can be completed with a random group of strangers with different skill levels.
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Are you certain that breaking GA into chunks wouldn't fit that bill?
 
What I predict would happen is exactly what happened with the dungeons. At first, STL was so hard that most groups didn't finish it. We all used voice comms and scheduled learning runs. But then the community learned the fights and improved, and it became easier. Now, it is very rare to pug STL and not finish, and all the dungeons are pugged successfully. In fact, most STL groups get silver now. For some guilds, the pug groups do better than guild groups.
 
I'm not so sure GA wouldn't be the same. I'm sure there would be a lot of wiping on mini bosses and x-89 early on, but I'll bet the community would learn and have no problem with these after time went by.
 
It would take longer without voice cons, and setting up Kuralak might take a little longer through text, but at the end of the day, I think you guys would have more fun doing that then a easier version of the raid.
 
Anyway, all that aside, I'd still enjoy seeing a easier, more casual raid exist that isn't rehashed GA.
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Guys as it stands, you would never want to queue for just GA with a random group because of the way that Raid Lockouts currently work. One of 2 things would happen...
 
1) you kill a mini boss/boss, and now you have to depend on 19 strangers to finish the instance or be locked out of the instance with any other group or...
 
2) you don't kill anything, and then you just wasted however much time you spent wiping to trash/minis/maybe a boss.
 
Until they have individual boss lockouts, GA pugfinder won't be viable. And TT has said this is not a trivial piece of code, so lets not get ahead of ourselves here.	
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			Agreed. The lockout change definitely needs to happen as soon as it can. This would open up GA to a lot more people.	
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Lethality's posts to me boil down to the same statements made by 60 year olds about their kids (who now say it about their kids and so on) "This generation today! Back in my day <insert w/e you want here>". There is no reason that given time and exposure, people will not learn how to make do around these mechanics without voice chat. And yes, I've seen all the bosses in GA firsthand. I still see no reason that it "Just simply can't be done". Eventually, raiders who do kill these things will have alts who they want to gear and can't fit into their alt GA runs, and will want to look for other alt GA runs and then you'll have people who know how to kill these bosses inside of these pug runs. Some will leave cause "1 wipe = noob group", others will stay and teach. 
 
There will be wiping, there will be a lot of it. But eventually groups will learn.
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If any of that is true, *why aren't they doing it right now?*
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Until they have individual boss lockouts, GA pugfinder won't be viable. And TT has said this is not a trivial piece of code, so lets not get ahead of ourselves here.
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Not sure that with these kind of lockouts you can find a group because of the player base.
 
I think the best you can do now is a raiding circle and try to keep it semi organize
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To the best of my knowledge, there ARE pug GA groups. Yes, they have actual GA raiders in them, but it does occur. Whether or not it's been successful I don't know.
 
That said, the LFG solution, whether it be queue up for 1 boss or the whole raid, doesn't work until there's lockouts by boss instead of instance. 
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If those kind of lockouts happen, you will absolutely be able to find groups, and there will be more groups running. Right now there is a huge cost to joining the wrong kind of group that doesn't meet your needs (if you are learning and they want to blow through, or if you what to blow through and they are learning).
 
If boss loot lockouts happen, it becomes much easier to start a new raid and get people in because the fear of being locked to the wrong kind of instance is gone.
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If those kind of lockouts happen, you will absolutely be able to find groups, and there will be more groups running. Right now there is a huge cost to joining the wrong kind of group that doesn't meet your needs (if you are learning and they want to blow through, or if you what to blow through and they are learning).
 
If boss loot lockouts happen, it becomes much easier to start a new raid and get people in because the fear of being locked to the wrong kind of instance is gone.
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I absolutely agree that even with individual lockouts I don't think that Pugfinder raids would happen. I think the queue would be populated by new people who don't want to join a guild and not raiders who have the experience necessary to explain the fights and the groups wouldn't get far. But at least if there was individual boss lockouts, then there would be a chance that some more experienced raiders would use the system.
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GA has 16 lockout points so in a perfect world you would need only 320 pugs going online and queuing on the same time and with the correct spec to be able to make a group.
Since nothing is perfect you will probably need about 6 times as much will you want to be able to somewhat reliably raid each night without waiting for 2 hours.
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			If there were individual lockouts, There's a good chance more raiders would be re-running GA. For example, I could run wirh my wife in a pug and not be concerned that I'm locking out my main.	
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I've no idea how you imagine that will work.
 
The raid in WS is a progression, you need to clear mini bosses and trash mob to get there.	
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			You simply unlock the necessary doors and make the teleported at the entrance go to the right place.	
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So instead of a raid it becomes boss killing?
 
Have fun with that i guess, but that wouldn't be for me and it should also not reward you with the same gear as a normal raid.	
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LFR in this game?!
 
NO.
 
'Nuff said.
 
People asking for it should do some research about how this worked out in other games and then actually should bring up some GOOD reasons for it to be in the game other than being a selfish casual who wants to see the content and get easy loot without putting much effort into it. Anything else is invalid and does nothing but hurting the game.
 
You can get enough loot easily without raiding. If you have that, THEN Raid. That's what a Raid is for - the final challenge in this game. So treat it like that.	
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Maybe if they make the power creep less then they have a lot more options to make this game more welcoming to a larger part of the gaming community.
 
Raids are a nice final content but here it really is the final content, the further you progress the less challenging/fun the rest of the lvl 50 pve content becomes. 
I wonder if it was hard to make a challenging raid without the needed gear progression/.gating?	
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So instead of a raid it becomes boss killing?
 
Have fun with that i guess, but that wouldn't be for me and it should also not reward you with the same gear as a normal raid.
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Honestly, I'm not gunning for a queue version of raids. I think making boss loot locks is enough.
 
But if that's important, that's how I'd do it. Three queues, and you can't unlock the second two until you've cleared the one before it at least once. Each queue starts you with a teleport point and the necessary doors unlocked/bosses and minis removed as if you'd cleared to that point.	
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Honestly, I'm not gunning for a queue version of raids. I think making boss loot locks is enough.
 
But if that's important, that's how I'd do it. Three queues, and you can't unlock the second two until you've cleared the one before it at least once. Each queue starts you with a teleport point and the necessary doors unlocked/bosses and minis removed as if you'd cleared to that point.
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Because it makes it more accessible to folks who can't schedule 8-12 hours a week.
 
I raid on a schedule and it's fun- bit if there's a segment who would be able to do it if it were broken into chunks, I don't see a real downside.
 
In fact, I seem to remember a Carbkne employee posting that it could be done that way back in beta so you wouldn't have to clear everything to progress (for guilds who wanted to work on it at a slower timeframe), but it didn't work out that way.	
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the pugs will come, 6 months ago we could even make STL silver without learning runs and comm voice programs
 
- today 1 DS geared dps and a normal tank and  heal can carry 2 dps (baddies, undergeared, or unexperienced) throught SSM without problems
 
- Soon 4 Redmoon Terror geared dps with normal tanks and healers could carry 10-11 dps (baddies, undergeared, or unexperienced) throught GA  or IC without problems
 
remember the content will nerf itself, we didnt believe it at start but it does, and when the  point come they implement a LFR kinda thing (with all the observations the community make) or do single boss loot locks people will be running the first raids in pugs with no problem	
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We can already bring in players who have never raided in any game and one shot Kuralak after a short explanation. A month ago or so we were spending four hours at a time working on the boss. I think a lot of that is the testament to the feedback system in this game. Very rarely is anyone called out for mistakes, because it's generally obvious what happened. For that reason, the game is pretty noob friendly- you don't have to ride people. They figure it out. After that it just takes practice. And when people see experienced players doing stuff, they can mimick it pretty quickly.
 
I think pugging GA with newer players will be a thing sooner than people realize. Especially when the lockouts change and if we can get a LFG Board type tool implemented (maybe mine, or hopefully stock at some point).	
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the pugs will come, 6 months ago we could even make STL silver without learning runs and comm voice programs
 
- today 1 DS geared dps and a normal tank and  heal can carry 2 dps (baddies, undergeared, or unexperienced) throught SSM without problems
 
- Soon 4 Redmoon Terror geared dps with normal tanks and healers could carry 10-11 dps (baddies, undergeared, or unexperienced) throught GA  or IC without problems
 
remember the content will nerf itself, we didnt believe it at start but it does, and when the  point come they implement a LFR kinda thing (with all the observations the community make) or do single boss loot locks people will be running the first raids in pugs with no problem
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			It's not a problem. The challenge is there for the first wave. And there is plenty in the game for those who want it. But for those who want an easier time, they just "wait for it to be on Netflix" :)	
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so... what is the end game content?
Farming the last raid and carrying newbies through the atunement and GA?
 
I really hope they have more in store for us.	
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And isn't this a problem?
What is the challenge and fun if you are being carried...
 
I remember when vet dungeons where fun and challenging but now we are doing enough dps to skip boss mechanics.
We are killing content by progressing in raid...
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Well yeah but the game is killing itself because it basically has an ending.
At the moment i'm only logging in to raid now... I'm curious what will happen when we complete DS, if will still want to play it.	
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Eventually there will be another raid after DS. This is not a problem unique to WS- for most of the population there is a lot to work on.
 
But anyway, the plight of finishing DS is not really the point of this thread.	
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Also, for us, when we bring new players into GA, it's not as much carrying as it is being able to accelerate the learning portion of the fights. We still aren't to a place where we out gear the early bosses, but we can show them quickly what needs to happen to defeat them. I realize that for DS geared folks it's more of a "carry" situation, but knowledge is very powerful in this game.
 
We've also been intentional about the pace we are learning new fights ourselves. We definitely have a crutch in the level of info available to us, but we are still taking time to learn how WE do the fights and tweak strats for our particular group. It's been a lot of fun, and more fun than if I'd joined a guild that we carrying me through with gear. So players have options even now how they want to engage the end game raids. Loot lock outs would bring more options, I think.	
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			No. We are hitting drop 5 and very few people have completed the raids already in the game.	
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			We are going to get a new raid with every drop?	
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Well yeah but the game is killing itself because it basically has an ending.
At the moment i'm only logging in to raid now... I'm curious what will happen when we complete DS, if will still want to play it.
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That really is the biggest issue imo. The original solution was PvP, but with the balance and gamemodes (imo walatiki should be disabled until a huge rework) as they are there's not much left. 
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Won't they keep releasing new raids as the game goes on? Sort of like WoW does. Their game doesn't end, they just continue with the storyline and the new raids. FF14 is having an expansion soon so there will be new raids there and new gear to collect etc. Will WS stop releasing new raids at some point, like when Drusera's story gets resolved, or something?
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			But there will be future raids. There's a boss in a box coming next drop, and there's another, full length raid in the works.	
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What I was getting at is that there is no way WS can release content as fast as people will clear it.
 
In order to obtain maintain a subscriber base (note that this is largely due to the monthly fee), there simply has to be other activities for players to engage in.
 
For example, aside from standard content, what has FFXIV done? The biggest notable is the Gold Saucer, a casino like area filled with minigames (and long term cosmetic rewards). FFXIV understands that even with their budget (which dwarfs WS') they know they cannot (nor should) make content faster than people can clear it. Instead, they are focusing on creating other activities for players to have fun with.
 
Humorously enough, CRB have once again just indicated that they've gotten this message. The new lazer tag minigame is a perfect example of this. A fun distraction that kills some time. With enough good distractions they can dramatically reduce the issue of content starvation. 	
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Won't they keep releasing new raids as the game goes on? Sort of like WoW does. Their game doesn't end, they just continue with the storyline and the new raids. FF14 is having an expansion soon so there will be new raids there and new gear to collect etc. Will WS stop releasing new raids at some point, like when Drusera's story gets resolved, or something?
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What I was getting at is that there is no way WS can release content as fast as people will clear it.
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But there will be future raids. There's a boss in a box coming next drop, and there's another, full length raid in the works.
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Well I'm not going to be subscribe waiting for the next raid and who wonders if i might come back or not while i play another MMO in the mean time.
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This is the problem with MMO p;ayers today.
 
You'll be back anyway. But if you'd commit to something, maybe we'd have a community instead of nomads all over the place.
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{| class="blockquote"
This is the problem with MMO p;ayers today.
 
You'll be back anyway. But if you'd commit to something, maybe we'd have a community instead of nomads all over the place.
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Nope, most of the MMORPG players are committed, to the family, work, RL stuff ... and play games for fun, if one do not provide or starts feeling like work ... well there is always another one, and we are lucky as market has grown so there is a loot on the menu to choose from. Some developers understand that, some not so much.
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Players are the problem. Stop being so fickle and play the game instead of complaining. You've got a full set of oranges and a pink weapon yes? Path completely finished? Housing decked out? And that's just PvE stuff.
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Players are the problem. Stop being so fickle and play the game instead of complaining. You've got a full set of oranges and a pink weapon yes? Path completely finished? Housing decked out? And that's just PvE stuff.
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I honestly can't tell if you realize, but the process of reaching those goals needs to be more fun than playing something else and right now... you'd be hard pressed to find many that would claim it to be. Gear is nice, but its meaning is derived from the fun of the encounters themselves, not the color of its *cupcake*ing text. 
 
If you really can't see that the loss of players this game has gone through as an indicator of a problem... well, that ignorance doesn't excuse being a dick and blaming the players. As they say, "don't hate the player, hate the game". (never though I'd end up quoting that...)
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To be fair, it's not just the players of this game. It's really most players of most games who have be come so self-entitled.
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can you stop confusing self entitled with not stuck in 2004 anymore
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The design of the game, like WoW, or any theme park, is to progress with a team to completion, flesh out your gear, and then move on to the next content. Most players including those reading this have simply not finished.
 
To be fair, it's not just the players of this game. It's really most players of most games who have be come so self-entitled.
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I get it... you guys want easy-peasy, things should just come to you. Any effort certainly can't mean it's satisfying gameplay. No sir-ee.
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I understand what you are getting at, and the topic is something I have spent a lot of time thinking about. 
 
IMO, it's not players getting "more entitled" or whatnot, but that there is simply more competition for their time. Games are getting more and more fun as the medium learns from its predecessors. FFXIV(ARR), one of the only MMOs to have significant growth after launch, which they have credited toward their unconventional design philosophy (for MMOs). They understand how little time people have, and their focus has been on removing as much time wasting fluff as possible. 
 
Attunement? One story quest. Alts? Every race is every class, leveling your lower classes gets a huge xp boost. Raids? Most endgame fights are "Trials" where there isn't even trash, you raise at full HP/MP next to the boss ready to try again. 
 
Everything from Aetherites to the economy understands this, and as they say "results speak for themselves".
 
You know the only MMO in recent memory that had as bad a rep as WS does now? FFXIV 1.0. The main difference is that WS doesn't have the deep pockets of FF, and will have to do small incremental changes as it can't afford a relaunch.
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 :angry:
 
Boy, am I sick of this argument or what...
Dark Souls. Monster Hunter. Bayonetta. The Rouge-like craze. There are countless examples of brutally difficult and/or complex games, they are just more fun than griding dailies in an MMO (NEVER AGAIN!)
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Well, they already have systems like paths and housing in place, so activities that surround those things are the likely best candidates. Plus the contracts. Adding new systems definitely isn't necessary for WildStar yet. Anything they can leverage with current tech.
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I get it... you guys want easy-peasy, things should just come to you. Any effort certainly can't mean it's satisfying gameplay. No sir-ee.
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They are what... 8 hour play experiences? 20 max? They don't have to be concerned with perpetual character progression or multiplayer persistence. Can't use them as examples, especially compared to an MMO, where large-scale cooperative gameplay is the point.
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Any effort to accommodate lifestyle is a compromise in design. WoW did it. FFXIV did it. Those games are largely jokes now as far as core gamers are concerned, they sit just above the social Facebook-style games in terms of audience. The changes they made have everything to do with retaining customers in every way EXCEPT clever and fun game design. If I'm a game designer and I see "retention" as my directive, I know things have gone south. And while I might be able to make the game appealing to certain new players, I will lose core players.
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They are what... 8 hour play experiences? 20 max? They don't have to be concerned with perpetual character progression or multiplayer persistence. Can't use them as examples, especially compared to an MMO, where large-scale cooperative gameplay is the point.
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I still cannot get over how delusional you are. Have you even heard of Monster Hunter?
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And why should a developer care what a "core gamer" thinks if "core gamers" aren't numerous enough to support their game financially? Do you think game designers shouldn't need salaries or what?
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I still cannot get over how delusional you are. Have you even heard of Monster Hunter?
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I'm curious about those, but i wonder if they are make for high geared level 50. veteran shiphands are a good example of what is nice but only fun a couple of times :(
 
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you have to try those, there are 3 tier of quest that give completion toward fullfilling the contract (tier 1 contracts in pve can be like kill 50 moodies, meanwhile tier 2 contracts are more aimed to things like get any number of multikills or complete some challenges , tier 3 are more aimed to events or medals  like do R-12 or get silver in SSM) this way everyone can complete contracts, even if you are a green 50 and you think you cant do silver SSM but we are sure you can kill some moodies or take some challenges to get the sweet gear
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But killing those would mean going to lower level right?
If that is true then that might not be the best solution it's not that fun for leveling players if lvl 50's are one shotting all the mobs around them :(
 
I do like the intensive to do the level 50 events or world bosses for example since they scale more or less.
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			i think the objetive must give exp to count, but dont know if the lower level counts toward the contract, anyone can give feedback on these? 	
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Are you aware you can mentor down to your group mates level? Just group with those lower level players, and then you're all having fun.
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Yeah I am but that isn't the question really.
If you got a mission to go to a level 10 zone and kill 50 mobs then i doubt not many will ask for someone there to group with him so he can level down to that zone's level.
So what you will most likely get is level 50's killing all the mobs in the low level zones.
 
I really hope this is not part of the mission so I'm hoping someone can tell me more about them.
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Ah okay, but the concern stays though since you mentioned whiteville and celestion.
I logged into PTR but the contract manager doesn't want to talk to me :(	
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Yeah I am but that isn't the question really.
If you got a mission to go to a level 10 zone and kill 50 mobs then i doubt not many will ask for someone there to group with him so he can level down to that zone's level.
So what you will most likely get is level 50's killing all the mobs in the low level zones.
 
I really hope this is not part of the mission so I'm hoping someone can tell me more about them.
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I just can;t get over that if there are so many perfect games out there already, why you all are in here trying to change this one instead of playing those?
 
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Want one good reason why we're down to one half-filled server in all of North America?
 
Look no further than this attitude and the people who continually sling it. 
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it's not an attitude, it's a question. What's the answer?
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Obviously, the answer is keep coming to a thread where you've been heard OVER AND OVER for almost 30 pages and keep shooting down every new voice who speaks in favor of LFR. Then, when none of the other posters who have already told you to stop mis-representing their words is watching, you fall right back into your dishonest, disingenuous habit of trying to make them all sound like little children and you are the sole voice of reason.
 
Please man, I've been listening to your schtick for going on what? Two years? We get it, bro, You're super-leet. You can't stand the thought of anyone not as good as you are sullying this game with their casual filth. You'd rather see this game sink into nothing than entertain sharing your one or two little instances with anyone else.
 
We get it already. 
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Hmm, not sure I understand. If you ask to group up, they help you and then you help them for a while. Win-win.
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I just can;t get over that if there are so many perfect games out there already, why you all are in here trying to change this one instead of playing those?
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If there's one take-home lesson that I hope game developers learned from MMORPGs in 2013-2014, it's that the hardcore crowd is very loud but very small, and building a game directed at them isn't viable. 
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Maybe they shouldn't have designed a game for core gamers in the first place. But changing it would be the biggest mistake they could make, because then it's just a money grab.
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The irony here is that all of the new MMOs are aimed at a more core and more hardcore audience... Star Citizen, Crowfall, Revival, Camelot Unchained... they are niche, and they are all hardcore. 
 
There are no more mainstream MMOs coming. You guys have worn developers out. They are now catering to more dedicated niches.
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Then I expect a whole lot more Wizardly Online Experiences to come in the next few years. At risk of pointing out the obvious, the other thing these games all are is "pending". Every game is filled with promise and enthusiasm before they open the doors.
 
Just like this one was. And then we all saw what implementation they wrapped around those beautiful core systems, and the mass-extinction event started.
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The difference is, these games don't need the player numbers that mainstream MMOs need. Just a fraction.
 
We won't see another WoW or SW:TOR or WildStar production budget. Which means mainstream/casual options are pretty much nowhere to be seen.
 
The indie and niche MMOs are catering to the core and hardcore.
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From what i gather that isn't the goal of the contract, the goal is to kill as many as you can it seems.
So if i stay level 50 in a low level zone so i can kill the mobs i need to kill then that is a win for me, that that means there are no mobs in the zone anymore for the leveling players... is not my problem :/
Then to think that several level 50 will do this across several maps/zones.
 
I really hope I am mistaken in this.
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The irony here is that all of the new MMOs are aimed at a more core and more hardcore audience... Star Citizen, Crowfall, Revival, Camelot Unchained... they are niche, and they are all hardcore. 
 
There are no more mainstream MMOs coming. You guys have worn developers out. They are now catering to more dedicated niches.
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No, then it's an attempt to give the game a healthy, viable population. That enhances the supply of people to fight the roster boss, to resurrect PvP servers, and to support additional development.
 
Is there money involved? Sure, because developers also need to eat and pay for their kids' braces and save for retirement. Welcome to Earth.
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Oh, is this glorious thread still running? *sigh*
 
But anyway, surpriselol nails it.
 
{| class="blockquote"
I don't know why everyone here presumes to know what will and won't save this game.  Most of the people (actually, all, now that I think about it) quit the game for reasons other than the difficulty, so first and foremost, don't assume that difficulty is the primary reason people quit the game/has low server pop (which has been recovering since the last few drops).
 
Besides that, I also don't think that people who ask for LFR really know what they're in for...  
 
Group finder YES.
 
LFR NO.
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About a year before this game launched, I had friends breathlessly telling me how awesome it was gonna be and I'd say in response "Uh-huh. Yep. Sounds promising. When's it actually coming out again? Let me know when there's an open beta." Most of them are gone from this game now, having long since given up on it. They bought the hype, expected it all to be wonderful, and got hit hard by the disappointment when reality turned out to be far less than was promised. So if you want to ride the hype train for all those indie and niche games that haven't come out yet, go for it. I'll be waiting until there's an actual MMORPG to play before I have anything to say about them except "Uh-huh. Yep. Sounds promising. When's that actually coming out again?"
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Joke aside, I really hope it wont be like that and that there is some way to force playing at the proper level like zone level cap in GW2 or requirement to be at the proper level to be able to attack mobs (like FATEs in FFXIV) or it will be yet another f... you to the new players.
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