Wikipedia Selection article

Category:TauTology
=== Wikipedia selection article ===
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/browse_frm/thread/015c3069fc289984#
=== bbc video ===
In the Blind watchmaker video at 43mins 
 (http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/41871790/bbc+dawkins+blind+watchmaker?tab=summary)
Dawkins says: ".....Chance intervenes, mistakes occur, occasionally they are preserved. We are nothing more than the accumulation of DNA mistakes generated randomly and guided by natural selection ...."
Is he using guided in the pattern or design sense? 
=== dfdfdfd ===
On Apr 26, 1:53 pm, Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > [...] one word can be used in the pattern or design sense as in
> > > "taking a marble out of a bag is a selection at random",
> 
> this has a well defined meaning. It means any of the marbles in the
> bag have an equi-probable chance of being chosen. 
As in a probability sample. 
> > > especially due to the insight that "random" like
> > > "natural selection" has no meaning.
> random has a meaning, it's just that NATURAL SELECTION ISN'T RANDOM.
Which depends what you mean with the symbol natural selection. Are you referring to Darwin, because he was interpreted as absolute empire of accident by Charles Kingsley 1863, Chance by John Burroughs and Osborn.
> I put soil through a "sieve" or griddle, the soil that goes through is
> finer and has less stones than the retained soil. Is this a random
> process? 
If you have the intent to filter small pebbles from larger ones then it is a directed process. It all depends what you are trying to say. The story is usually told in terms of making a sieve then having all shapes of beans be filtered or retained, preserved or selected on either side(depends what you want larger or smaller beans on either side.) The words filter, random, selection, retention and sieve don't mean anything hence they can't help you to understand what you are trying to say. First figure out what your idea is , then use the symbols selection, filter, design, pattern to try and communicate the idea to me. 
> If you think the sieve is designed then consider a mountain
> stream that does the same.
Mountain streams don't have intent, even though we might say the stream
"sieved" the larger or smaller pebbles we would use it in the "pattern" 
sense, not design because "sieve" has no meaning. 
Only the idea that is being communicated has meaning.
=== tft ===
=== asdf ===
{{{
On Apr 24, 8:02 pm, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 10:39:06 -0700 (PDT), backspace
> <stephan...@gmail.com> wrote in talk.origins:
> 
> 
> 
> >On Apr 24, 6:43 pm, Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nos...@hotmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >> On 23 Apr, 07:00, backspace <stephan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >> > On Apr 22, 5:20 pm, Desertphile <desertph...@invalid-address.net>
> >> > wrote:
> 
> >> > > On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 02:11:59 -0700 (PDT), backspace
> 
> >> > > <stephan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection
> 
> >> > > > "...In the context of evolution, certain traits or alleles of a
> >> > > > species may be subject to selection...."
> >> > > > Who wrote that and did he use selection in the pattern or design
> >> > > > sense.
> 
> >> > > There is no such thing as a "design sense" in biology.
> 
> >> > Biology is a different symbol for Life:
> 
> >> no. Biology is the study of life. Biology is not life.
> 
> >Its semantic dictionary definition is that but English isn't like
> >Greek one word can be used in the pattern or design sense as in
> >"taking a marble out of a bag is a selection at random", due to our
> >limited lexicon, especially due to the insight that "random" like
> >"natural selection" has no meaning.
> 
> So, you misuse words when you want and appeal to the dictionary when you
> want. Thanks for reminding us that you don't take any of this seriously.
The dictionary definition is an arbitrary generally accepted agreed upon coda between a group of signal senders and signal receivers that when a symbols such as "selection" is used it conveys "decision" usually not always. In the same way that the IEEE 802.3 standards authority decreed by their powers that Ethernet is variable frame rates and ATM fixed at 57bytes so that we don't wind up thinking that Julio cranks his wooden cheese or Green ideas are colorless and decisions natural or artificial. A decision can be no more natural or artificial than a square can be round. Decision can be hasty,contemplated or sudden but never ever natural or artificial. This depends though what signal sender means with selection, he might not mean decision. 
Which of the following sentences make sense or not: 
1) My condition of existence is either natural or artificial. 
2) Colorless green ideas sleep furiously. 
3) My condition of existence makes no sudden leaps.
4) Nature makes no sudden leaps. 
5) I am adapted to my condition of existence. 
6) Today I have made a hasty decision to drive the car.
7) An artificial decision was made to drive the car. (Could mean forced depending on context)
8) A natural decision was made to drive. (Could mean calm depending on context)
Even Wilkins has stated that natural and artificial is wrong, it should just be "selection". What he means by that though we have no idea and he doesn't want to talk to me. 
> >The problem of life itself - what is it? You are alive, the very thing
> >you are you can't define, which means that everything you say, think
> >and infer could be wrong.
> Life is easy to define. 
Prof. Cleland and Wilkins beg to differ. 
One simple, accurate definition is that life is a self-sustaining biochemical reaction.
Biochemical reactions symbolically represent Life, they aren't life itself. A bridge symbolically represents something other than itself. An animal and human in whom is the "breath of life" only represents something which is more real. What is more "real" than the bridge itself is the partial differential equations describing it in a domain that isn't a physical location but a condition of existence.
=== kjkjk ===
=== monkey ===
=== willows ===
=== lp ===
=== lkjlkj ===
=== lk ===
=== asdf sd ===
=== sdf ===
=== pz post ===
=== hgg ===
You can't really interact with your environment in the same sense that you are not adapted to your environment in the sense that Linux isn't adapted to its environment or condition of existence. My premise is that mind came before matter, that my body and grey matter is a symbolic representation of my soul - the real me, which can't die. My soul is like a complex Linux idea neither here nor there and just like "Linux is adapted to its environment" makes no sense so is saying that you are adapted to your environment meaningless. Saying your interact with your environment is somewhere between a truism and meaningless....... because you can't do anything but interact with your condition of existence, which is described by your attributes. 
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Note that the above seems a bit confusing I would be happy to amend it but it seems a failure of language to find the correct words. See this post for clarity 
http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/TauTology#Wikipedia.27s_Fitness_article_uses_John_Tyndall.27s_interpetation_of_Democritus