109229-state-of-wildstar-and-dev-communication

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I typed a slightly ranty post on reddit in response to another whiteknight thread over there, and decided to xpost it here in case anyone cares or agrees. Personally I think this is the main and only issue with the way Wildstar is being handled.
 
We get dour threads followed by these whiteknight threads every day, so let me sum up the actual reality;
 
The game is fun, PVP has great potential because its something a little different while offering a familiar system to other games which will not be named. PVE is good, especially if you enjoy well designed boss encounters that are fun to learn and fun to play.
 
That said, there are problems. Real problems. Matchmaking and the rating formulas/systems are not fit for purpose. Balance is an issue, with DPS (burst) high and healing very low currently. Some classes are so prevalent and strong that they are perceived to be very OP, but this is disguised and impossible to discuss because the gear progression in PVP makes it very hard to distinguish between "OP" and "outgeared".
 
Itemization is a state. Nobody cares about any stat other than their main stat, and as a result the crafting system has been abused (read: min/max'ed) making dungeon loot largely irrelevant and some raid loot even.
 
The random rune system was terrible, and we told them, in beta, and then they told us a month after release "you know guys, this is terrible!" and then they went and put it on PVP gear anyway, screwing over latecommers to the party and enabling some people to start the master grind for better slots without the mitigating changes recently announced and posted by J-Tal.
 
I still believe 40man is a flawed concept and the sooner Carbine agrees the better it will be for everyone, but I guess we'll see how that goes. I don't want to run and manage a 60+ player guild to field a warplot or raid team. Its just work. I loved 10man content, and I have a 10man guild. Where is that content?
 
Add to that the population issues, mainly due to people getting frustrated and leaving rather than anything the players have said/done and the QA failures... we are left with a frustrating experience that is sometimes fun.
 
I don't agree with the doomsaying or the whine. This game IS fun. The issues are real though, and pretending they don't exist is just as stupid as making the "I QUIT *cupcake*YOU CARBINE" threads.
 
What we need is better communication from Carbine that they 'get' these issues and are doing something about them. Atm we have loads of examples of players giving feedback that does not get responded to or acted on until much too late and systems with flaws are live too long. They put devs on stream and fire questions at them, but often what happens is that they seem to reveal that they have no idea what the hot issues are. For example; they get asked about the PVP weapon being too strong and particularly that it is best in slot for a huge chunk of PVE content, and the guy says "you cant put pve runes in it" ... yes you *cupcake*ing can, and thats not the issue anyway, its got a huge chunk of AP on it which is the only stat people care about. THAT is the issue. And the fact that it contributes HUGELY to the pvp gear gap. Why do you not know what these issues are? The forums are full of feedback (read: whine) about this, how can you not be getting that as feedback? What is failing here?
 
The engagement from devs on PVP issues in particular is just non-existent. Its the most volatile system in your game, because 50% of your customers are always going to lose a match, and yet it seems to be the area where you are not only the most silent, but the slowest to make changes. We need a roadmap, we need a guide, we need to see that you get the issues and understand them.
 
Not fixing stuff 2/3 months after release too long you say? Yes, I'm afraid it is. We've seen and heard all the arguments and its old. I'm sorry things are the way they are but the 2014 MMO gamer wants the good stuff today without waiting for 10 years of iteration, so you better be prepared to move quickly when things need to be changed.
 
For this read; Gear gap, healing nerf and (still) pending un-nerf. Cooldown bugs. Quests not awarding group credit, am I not meant to play with my friends? Its an MMO. Wake up. I want to group. Action set 3/4 have been screwed since launch. Just some random examples of stuff that irks me on a daily basis. Where are the fixes? You are taking too long, Carbine. If you have plans, you better tell us soon because I'm sure you can see the concurrent users dropping, I know we can.
 
We don't want another daily zone. We want to play and enjoy the content we have. Stop running before you can walk and fix the issues with the systems you have in place. Itemization, matchmaking, gear balance, class issues/balance. Take a long hard look and resolve the above, as quickly as possible, and tell us what you are doing ahead of time so we can look forward to it rather than sitting here in silence waiting for a patch when we have no idea if its even coming.	
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			They post detailed information on what they've decided to change, when they decide to change it. Just like J-Tal has for the last week, just like they have when it comes to PvP.They're working on it, they're telling us about it when they can. Another day and another laundry list thread like your's doesn't change a thing. No meaningful feedback, no understanding of the process, no acknowledgement of actual current events because that doesn't jibe with your fantasy.Could be worse though, could be like WoW where they barely tell players anything until after it's in testing. 	
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They post detailed information on what they've decided to change, when they decide to change it. Just like J-Tal has for the last week, just like they have when it comes to PvP.
 
They're working on it, they're telling us about it when they can. Another day and another laundry list thread like your's doesn't change a thing. No meaningful feedback, no understanding of the process, no acknowledgement of actual current events because that doesn't jibe with your fantasy.
 
Could be worse though, could be like WoW where they barely tell players anything until after it's in testing. 
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Hello!
 
I'm sure you know we have a dev tracker at the top of the forums where you can see everything developers are responding to, they do comment quite frequently during the week days - I know there's one thing lacking from that at times and it is exact dates that these changes will be incoming / implemented. It's a hard thing to commit to because there's so many other factors involved besides just plain fixing. We want to make sure that things that are changed are not creating new issues, and actually resolve the old one. 
 
In specific to your comments above - pretty much everything has been addressed in a post or two or three by a developer, the issue (if I'm understanding correctly) is WHEN these will happen. 
 
There was a post made regarding the PvP issues here on the 5th of August, that does address things like healing in PvP, the rating bracket issues, and gear gaps. These things are being communicated, but again I just want to clarify is it the length of time it takes to have these issues resolved that is the real problem?
 
- Team WildStar 	
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Hello!
 
I'm sure you know we have a dev tracker at the top of the forums where you can see everything developers are responding to, they do comment quite frequently during the week days - I know there's one thing lacking from that at times and it is exact dates that these changes will be incoming / implemented. It's a hard thing to commit to because there's so many other factors involved besides just plain fixing. We want to make sure that things that are changed are not creating new issues, and actually resolve the old one. 
 
In specific to your comments above - pretty much everything has been addressed in a post or two or three by a developer, the issue (if I'm understanding correctly) is WHEN these will happen. 
 
There was a post made regarding the PvP issues here on the 5th of August, that does address things like healing in PvP, the rating bracket issues, and gear gaps. These things are being communicated, but again I just want to clarify is it the length of time it takes to have these issues resolved that is the real problem?
 
- Team WildStar 
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			Part of the problem is how spread the information is, we were told we should see something "soon" that condenses all information in one location. 	
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I still believe 40man is a flawed concept and the sooner Carbine agrees the better it will be for everyone, but I guess we'll see how that goes. I don't want to run and manage a 60+ player guild to field a warplot or raid team. Its just work. I loved 10man content, and I have a 10man guild. Where is that content?
 
Add to that the population issues, mainly due to people getting frustrated and leaving rather than anything the players have said/done and the QA failures... we are left with a frustrating experience that is sometimes fun.
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			Chillia's got my back, yo.	
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There was a post made regarding the PvP issues here on the 5th of August, that does address things like healing in PvP, the rating bracket issues, and gear gaps. These things are being communicated, but again I just want to clarify is it the length of time it takes to have these issues resolved that is the real problem?
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			Am I going nuts, or did my reply get deleted?	
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/thread
 
Edit:  Hahahahahahahah I can't stop laughing at how silly the OP's long ass rant sounds now.
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It took 1 patch to break healing and 3 months of 1800 gear vs 1200 gear.
 
Its too long
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Thing is, nobody is pretending that those issues are non-existent (except maybe server population). But would you rather have a dev tell you 10 times he's looking into it or rather have him look into it? I think we won't see any BIG changes coming until the next content drop and that's fine with me. The sooner they release things, the more likely it'll be buggy.
Everyday someone posts complaints and everytime they expect a dev's answer. They're developers, they're actually not supposed to sit in front of their pc and just wait for another complaint thread to pop up, so they can say "We're looking into it". The CMs are there for a reason.	
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			And you're acting like it's not the MMO standard to only release major changes on set schedule...  No major MMO developer will release changes like you're asking in hot fixes.  WoW PVP has been broken for pretty much the entire MoP xpac (perma CC spam) and they aren't changing anything until the next xpac.  They haven't even updated their current xpac in a year and still people complain that Carbines update schedule isn't aggressive enough.Mind boggling.	
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Thing is, nobody is pretending that those issues are non-existent (except maybe server population). But would you rather have a dev tell you 10 times he's looking into it or rather have him look into it? I think we won't see any BIG changes coming until the next content drop and that's fine with me. The sooner they release things, the more likely it'll be buggy.
Everyday someone posts complaints and everytime they expect a dev's answer. They're developers, they're actually not supposed to sit in front of their pc and just wait for another complaint thread to pop up, so they can say "We're looking into it". The CMs are there for a reason.
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			I'm still waiting on bug fixes listed in patch notes. Linking things devs have said is painfully unsatisfying when the bulk of their answers fall into "vague" or "wrong".	
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I'm still waiting on bug fixes listed in patch notes. Linking things devs have said is painfully unsatisfying when the bulk of their answers fall into "vague" or "wrong".
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Matchmaking    - Bug fix, nothing to do with explaining why there is a gear tiered system and yet the gear tier doesn't factor into the matchmaking formula at all for rated content
Class balance more on class balance (nexus report, this involves PvP class changes)  - Neither of these posts have anything to do with class balance?
Itemization  (this was on a recent nexus report) - The report where, when asked why the PVP weapon was so much better than PVE weapons and contributed so much to 1200vs1800 overgearing, he replied that pve runes can't be slotted into pvp gear, when it can and is and thats not even the issue as stated in the OP?
Population - No response
Cool-downs more on cool downs - Fixed but still not live for some reason, not as important as fat chua's, I hear them cry! (yes, sarcasm. Seriously though, its a big issue? Why not live?)
Gear gap - Announced changes, but still not live or on PTR, matchmaking is a related issue with no response (If MM worked we'd never meet someone with full 1800 until we were much closer to their rating, but you can take 1800 gear from one PVP content area and use it to stomp people in another, separately rated PVP content, with no consideration given to the gear you are wearing)
Healing in PvP - Acknowledged but no changes discussed or announced.
Upcoming bug fixes - This starts "I can't go into details right now. Well, thanks for the heads up but we need the details.
7 Part series on changes upcoming to the rune system - And yet we went live with random rune PVP gear before this was ready, making more issues in the short term
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Thanks for your efforts, but I think we can agree these barely scratch the surface, and most of the PVP issues are gated on the fact that the gear gap and matchmaking issues are probably hiding or creating other issues, and therefore need to be live sooner rather than "two weeks later still wondering whats going on."
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IF there is no credd, I won't pay US dollar to keep playing. Many people have the same feeling as me.
And even if they used credd to sub, they don't often login in. That's all.	
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			Meh, I really had nothing constructive to contribute.  Chillia did a lot of work, more than I did, and I agree with her:  they communicate, just because you don't like what's said doesn't mean it's not communication.	
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I'm pretty sure if you check all those links there are no answers to the majority of the issues highlighted in the post. 
 
I still see no response on some of the issues, so.. you may be satisfied with it but I'm pretty sure the growing number of empty server complaints says that most people are not. Maybe they never will be.
 
What I'd be satisfied with is an improvement to the current wildstar weekly streams where they actually brief the dev on the major issues and they come on ready and loaded to talk about the hot issues. Taking random questions is great, except they are troll, ill-informed or just plain asking for information we already have.
 
Get in touch with the major issues and tell us your thoughts on them.
 
The rune system failures are a good example. Where is the PVP issue equivalent? 
 
I see TimeTravel posting every week, and all he has to do is lap up the praise because the dungeon/raid/boss encounters are bloody awesome. Where is the engagement from the PVP devs on those hot issues?
 
The class leads have posted a lot too, or tried, but how can they do their job and balance the game when the gear and itemization issues are so prevalent? 
 
Looking at the state of things as an experienced player all I can see is a long list of things that need attending and very slow action getting them sorted, with more issues waiting in the wings when they do fix things.
 
As an example, the gear gap will be closed and the healing un-nerf will be coming in. Great. And yet, you can queue right now as a 1200 RBG team and get matched against a 2500 team, get smashed, and lose 2 rating. Isn't that just a waste of time? Never mind the gear, lets assume it was already fixed, they are 1300 rating above you. Surely you have no chance to win, its a pointless match. That is the point in a skill measurement and rating system isn't it? Nobody wants to play a game they have a statistical chance of 1% to win. Its just a waste of 10 minutes queuing and 10 minutes playing. But there is no dev discussion on that issue at all.
 
Changes need to be faster. Dev's need to be better informed on the major issues. At the moment it feels like they are so busy churning out new content that they don't have the time to revisit broken game systems.	
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Hello!
 
I'm sure you know we have a dev tracker at the top of the forums where you can see everything developers are responding to, they do comment quite frequently during the week days - I know there's one thing lacking from that at times and it is exact dates that these changes will be incoming / implemented. It's a hard thing to commit to because there's so many other factors involved besides just plain fixing. We want to make sure that things that are changed are not creating new issues, and actually resolve the old one. 
 
In specific to your comments above - pretty much everything has been addressed in a post or two or three by a developer, the issue (if I'm understanding correctly) is WHEN these will happen. 
 
There was a post made regarding the PvP issues here on the 5th of August, that does address things like healing in PvP, the rating bracket issues, and gear gaps. These things are being communicated, but again I just want to clarify is it the length of time it takes to have these issues resolved that is the real problem?
 
- Team WildStar 
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I was only responding to the 'lack of communication' portion of this post, I'm not commenting on anything else but to say that IMO the devs do communicate. 
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PVE example then;
 
Dungeon/Adventure loot rewards are undesirable to players because crafting main stat heavy items is so powerful, and main stat is all they care about. You can simply turn up to a raid in your blue craftables and go from there, once you are attuned.
 
In that one sentence we have a number of issues;
 
1) main stat spam is too strong, AP beats all
2) dungeon loot isn't itemized to be better than craftable, providing no progression making dungeon runs a stepping stone to raiding and nothing more
3) crafting is too powerful
4) there is no "endgame" pve gear progression unless you want to raid. 
 
I do not want to raid, I think 40man is the most boring thing ever conceived in the genre. I'd love to run these cool dungeons though, but I can't motivate my small guild of friends because it offers no reward beyond the ability to do it once and say you've done it.
 
So what dev communication have we had on the issue?
 
Random runes are getting changed
Raid loot is getting changed
Crafting is getting nerfed, but only for new crafts
 
Nothing on AP/main stat spam, which is a class design and itemization issue. You need to design abilities and mechanics that make other stats desirable to players.
 
Nothing on dungeon loot being poorly itemized. They acknowledged the issue but have not announced any changes, or a roadmap to improve PVE progression pre-raid.
 
Nothing on endgame content for sub-20man groups.	
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sorry, but I think I had to stop reading about the time you mentioned "responding to another whiteknight thread over there (reddit)"
 
usually that pretty much implies that you have no intention of being interested in anything anyone says that disagrees with you and your position and intend to label them as "white knights"
 
are there broken things? yes. do the devs communicate? yes. are the devs saying things are perfect and dont need fixing? no
 
but all I get here is that its not how you want or doing things as fast as you would like. *shrugs* personal perspective really.	
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sorry, but I think I had to stop reading about the time you mentioned "responding to another whiteknight thread over there (reddit)"
 
usually that pretty much implies that you have no intention of being interested in anything anyone says that disagrees with you and your position and intend to label them as "white knights"
 
are there broken things? yes. do the devs communicate? yes
 
but all I get here is that its not how you want or doing things as fast as you would like. *shrugs* personal perspective really.
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@Jonneh,
 
 
While there are issues, if you resort to "lables" it often falls on deaf ears and shows your inability to converse without inciting to make your point. I think that was the take away from Kestriel's post.
 
Something to consider ( which I have been guilty of also ... so this is not a pot/kettle situation ... it is an acknowledgement of more effective communication ... need to keep reminding myself of that when I am MAD. :P).	
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Hello!
 
 We want to make sure that things that are changed are not creating new issues, and actually resolve the old one. 
 
- Team WildStar 
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So what happened with the PvP healing? I'm pretty sure that created a rather large issue. To the point I gave up on my 50 healer and rolled a new toon.(Leveling a 3rd toon to 50 makes me want to give up on this game) I'm confused as to how the dev's thought making a healer virtually useless in a BG a step forward? People did test this right? 
 
 
The dev's do type words. I wouldn't really call it communicating. 
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So what happened with the PvP healing? I'm pretty sure that created a rather large issue. To the point I gave up on my 50 healer and rolled a new toon.(Leveling a 3rd toon to 50 makes me want to give up on this game) I'm confused as to how the dev's thought making a healer virtually useless in a BG a step forward? People did test this right? 
 
 
The dev's do type words. I wouldn't really call it communicating. 
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They're doing the best they can.
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They're doing the best they can.  I know I wouldn't be able to answer every question on my design work if thousands of people were all sending me emails, twitter, FB, and forum questions about their pet peeves and still actually do my design work.  It seems a little unfair to wonder why people who are trying to do a job don't drop everything to answer every particular question they get, especially if they are still examining issues.
 
If it isn't obvious, while we can say whatever we want as far as solutions go, they need to actually implement real solutions with real code that don't have any unintended side effects, or that becomes their next "problem" everyone will complain about.  And if they do keep us up to date, we get the whinging volume increased (just look at when they announced the attunement change, these forums became nothing but a rage-fest for people who hadn't had anything to do with the attunement argument before).
 
They can't win, so I don't blame them for treating us like children who can only handle so much information.  I certainly don't blame them for not coming to every single forum thread to answer everyone's individual questions personally.
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Hey now,
 
This thread has to remain constructive and refrain from name calling in order to stay open. You don't have to see eye to eye, that's perfectly fine, but flaming each other won't be tolerated. 
 
- Team WildStar 	
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How the hell do you know? Are you involved in the Community Team to Dev (and visa versa) system? That kind of comment is the very core of whiteknighting. "I have no information, but I defend these guys!!"
 
If you want to make things better, tell them about your experience like I am, don't just repeat what you hear them say.
 
 
 
Its a good argument until you realise that half the changes that have been made have been lackluster or have broken something. Where was the real testing and real code then? I stand by the arguments I've been making since drop1. They are pushing out content too fast and not polishing and fixing the old content fast enough. I'd quite happily still be playing dungeons and doing RBGs if those systems were worth my time and subs. As it stands, they currently are not. For reasons, see above.
 
tl;dr for dungeons its no loot/gear progression and RBGs its broken geargap/matchmaking/rating system
 
 
 
It depends what you mean by "winning". If you mean, design a successful game with player and subscription growth, then I say they can win.. they just need to listen to the feedback from those of us offering it and act on it more quickly.
 
If you mean, "make it so nobody ever complains" then you're right. There will always be something. At the moment there are several big somethings.
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Ah here another one of those post that start by calling people whiteknights and fanboys when you don't agree with OP.
 
Sorry OP but i stop reading at whiteknight. You obvously don't wan't to discuss since you probably know better than anyone else here including Carbine's staff.	
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I know they're doing as much as they can because I'm aware of their hourly schedules.  Are you assuming that Carbine Studios is in the habit of working 20 hour work weeks or spending more of their time at Starbucks than on a computer?  Yes, they're doing the best they possibly can, the company itself doesn't number more than 250 to the man.
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I know they're doing as much as they can because I'm aware of their hourly schedules.  Are you assuming that Carbine Studios is in the habit of working 20 hour work weeks or spending more of their time at Starbucks than on a computer?  Yes, they're doing the best they possibly can, the company itself doesn't number more than 250 to the man.
 
As for apparently having not fixed anything, I'm in the habit of running multiple characters.  More than you, I'm very aware of how much was fixed.  I remember reporting quite a few bugs while leveling, almost all of which are gone now.
 
Recall also that a lot of the "PVP breaking bugs" now were things the community was screaming to have implemented a month prior.  For the first two months, PVP was broken because healers could AOE heal through anything, damage was nerfed, engineers were useless, espers were worthless, warriors did too much damage, etc. etc.  Now, PVP is broken because healing is worthless, engineers are OP, espers are OP, damage is too high, warriors are nerfed, etc. etc.  People asked for PVP to be changed into this and so it came to pass.  I'm not about to blame Carbine when everyone, for two months, complained that it was nothing but a zergfest that required no skill.
 
Other items, like fixing the gear system, came up later (RNG came up about early July and picked up in late July, well after people spent their time saying that leveling was a brick wall to keep people from raiding and that attunement was doing nothing but adding tedious grinding to keep people from raiding).  The gearing system is, in fact, massively complicated because the stats are idiosyncratic, so installing a new system is going to take a little more than a week and a prayer.  Especially if you're really worried about any sort of imperfection in the implemented system, which you've said you are.  You can't just come up with a quick fix and implement it without breaking everything else.  You're self-defeating your own agenda that way.
 
No, Carbine cannot win.  Blizzard hasn't won in ten years with a peak of 12 million subs and still 7 million playing.  Nobody comes onto these forums because they wanted to tell Carbine what a great job they're doing; all the new faces are people who came here because they didn't like something, as you did today.  And your problems are different than all the other ones that came before you.  You can see trends come and go over the long term as far as what people are here to complain about.  Just in the last week, the people complaining about timers were replaced by people who complained about nerfing the difficulty.  And, no doubt, if and when these issues are resolved or forgotten, something else will come up.
 
If you don't respect me because I haven't looked down my nose at Carbine's staff with my head quite far back enough for your liking, I don't think you can feasibly expect me to extend you more courtesy than that.
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Healing wasn't "broken" before the patch. I could be stunned and burnt down by a competent group and we would lose. Heaven forbid it takes some teamwork to win! Nope we'll just scratch healers from PvP altogether. 
 
It took skill to win a match before the patch. Teamwork, communication and targeting enemy healers. We may as well be playing an FPS, no heals no tanks just people trying to kill each other. 
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We may as well be playing an FPS, no heals no tanks just people trying to kill each other. 
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Sorry friend but, no. Defending the game because you're a fanboy and want it succeed is whiteknighting. Saying people who have valid concerns are just moaning about their personal perspective while conveniently ignoring the dropping population is whiteknighting.
 
There are issues, and we need a roadmap to resolve them. We needed it last month. That is the reality, and I am openly discussing it. We need to put some confidence back into the devs, the game and convince people the content is worth paying the subs for.
 
 
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no, WE do not need a roadmap of anything.
 
truth is people complain the ignore gaming history by doing this or that, then people ask that they IGNORE gaming history by more communication. truth is WE as a community have prove time and time again that we misunderstand or blatantly ignore dev communications.
 
if we get a roadmap and time frames, if something comes up so there is a delay, there are always those that crow about being lied to, abotu deadlines not being met, endless baseless speculation about their motives and intent.
 
if we get a notice that a certain fix is being delayed due to it being more work or causing more issues, some complain that its not getting fixed fast enough, that their workflow sucks that they need to put more people on it.
 
there are people that what the devs do (in any game) will NEVER be good enough.
 
I would say that they have learned a lot from game forums in the last decade and more. basically, nothing they do will ever be enough.I dont think we are being treated like children. I think we are being treated like the game community that developers have come to expect.
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Healing wasn't "broken" before the patch. I could be stunned and burnt down by a competent group and we would lose. Heaven forbid it takes some teamwork to win! Nope we'll just scratch healers from PvP altogether. 
 
It took skill to win a match before the patch. Teamwork, communication and targeting enemy healers. We may as well be playing an FPS, no heals no tanks just people trying to kill each other. 
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What you are saying is that because they will never make "everyone" happy they shouldn't bother trying at all.
 
Well, I don't agree. I think there are plenty of people out there who can read a roadmap of changes and understand they might take time and be satisfied with that. Especially when you are talking about complex issues.
 
Raising the stats on the 12/1500 gear is not a complex issue. Its a SQL script that you write, test and deploy. Its numbers. Its easy. If it isn't; you're doing it wrong.
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What you are saying is that because they will never make "everyone" happy they shouldn't bother trying at all.
 
Well, I don't agree. I think there are plenty of people out there who can read a roadmap of changes and understand they might take time and be satisfied with that. Especially when you are talking about complex issues.
 
Raising the stats on the 12/1500 gear is not a complex issue. Its a SQL script that you write, test and deploy. Its numbers. Its easy. If it isn't; you're doing it wrong.
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They couldn't afford me!  ;)
 
(Serious, relocation from the UK alone would make it uneconomical!)	
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They couldn't afford me!  ;)
 
(Serious, relocation from the UK alone would make it uneconomical!)
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They couldn't afford me!  ;)
 
(Serious, relocation from the UK alone would make it uneconomical!)
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Seriously though, I'd have a high level briefing every day with someone who was responsible for monitoring the forums and look into the "hot issues". I'd be browsing the logs, checking out what had been going on. I'd write a query that told me how many 1200 teams had faced 1800 teams and what their winrate was, and instantly saw there was a problem that a) it was happening a lot and b) it was obviously a hatchet job for the underdog.
 
I'd respond, even if it was just a quick one to say "we will look into this" and then maybe schedule a weekly update for major issues. It sounds like a lot of administration, because it is, but I'd happily pay that cost if it helped convince even 25% of my players that I was on top of their key issues. It would turn "the devs are listening" into a two way street, now they are listening and responding. All the while you can keep the code monkeys doing what they are doing.
 
I'm sure some would be unhappy. But the Mod's earlier attempt to link dev responses would look a lot better with actual responses, wouldn't it? Even if it was just something from last weeks update saying they still needed to work on it.	
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What you are saying is that because they will never make "everyone" happy they shouldn't bother trying at all.
 
Well, I don't agree. I think there are plenty of people out there who can read a roadmap of changes and understand they might take time and be satisfied with that. Especially when you are talking about complex issues.
 
Raising the stats on the 12/1500 gear is not a complex issue. Its a SQL script that you write, test and deploy. Its numbers. Its easy. If it isn't; you're doing it wrong.
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obviously the pvp aspect of the game is your major concern since that is a common theme is most of your posts
 
so, if you were doing that, and focusing only on the pvp aspect, I would certainly feel that  your communications were useless and you couldnt give a damn about my play style. and the "devs are listening" at that point only to the people that are into pvp.
 
so, again... the major difference, and what I have been saying all along, is that they are not saying what you want to hear. which is a focus on pvp fixes.
 
which is...perspective.	
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He's not saying they shouldn't try, he's saying it's a Catch 22.  So they are doing what they can, and do it knowing they can't please everyone and they're not going to try and please everyone, they are just going to do what they say they will do:  communicate with us when/what they can.  Just because it's not what you want to hear, it doesn't mean they aren't.
 
Yes, there are some that will read the roadmap and know that shit happens and can't always go as planned, but then there's those that don't know that(or ignore that) and will cry, flame and whinge.  Again, Catch 22.
 
This isn't a flame question, it's honest curiosity:  Have you ever worked on developing an MMO?  Is it really as easy as you say it is?  
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obviously the pvp aspect of the game is your major concern since that is a common theme is most of your posts
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I don't think I ever said its easy. I just criticize the way its being done at the moment.
 
I've managed several projects that involved extremely similar elements. Design iteration, testing, QA, bug reporting feature requests and above all; communication with your project stakeholders.
 
Ask any project manager and they will tell you that the last one is one of the most critical, because the perception of how well your project is progressing and being run is as important as achieving your milestones, if not more so in a corporate environment.
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Honestly, that's why I didn't go into game design.  That architecture degree in '08 was worthless with the crash, and I had 3ds Max experience.  Why not go into video game design?
 
Then I saw the kind of hours, salary, and relocation they have to go through, coupled with their own job security.
 
I learned Revit and waited for the market to bounce back.
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Seriously though, I'd have a high level briefing every day with someone who was responsible for monitoring the forums and look into the "hot issues". I'd be browsing the logs, checking out what had been going on. I'd write a query that told me how many 1200 teams had faced 1800 teams and what their winrate was, and instantly saw there was a problem that a) it was happening a lot and B) it was obviously a hatchet job for the underdog.
 
I'd respond, even if it was just a quick one to say "we will look into this" and then maybe schedule a weekly update for major issues. It sounds like a lot of administration, because it is, but I'd happily pay that cost if it helped convince even 25% of my players that I was on top of their key issues. It would turn "the devs are listening" into a two way street, now they are listening and responding. All the while you can keep the code monkeys doing what they are doing.
 
I'm sure some would be unhappy. But the Mod's earlier attempt to link dev responses would look a lot better with actual responses, wouldn't it? Even if it was just something from last weeks update saying they still needed to work on it.
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 I work with 3ds max on a daily basis not game design but doing product design/archviz/vfx for advertising (car commercials etc) etc. and here its the same deal pay is not really that great for the hours you have to pull. I think thats the curse of working in front of a pc. Cause everbody thinks stuff just happens with a push of a button.
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gamers are NOT stakeholders unless you hold shares in the company.
 
do we help pay the bills? certainly. but we are by no means stakeholders in the company. we play the game, we do not hold stocks, we do not control voting shares, we are not paid dividends.
 
we pay to use the product, and the fact that they even listen to us, is a great thing, but should by no means be taken to mean that we have much of a say in the greater scheme of things
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I don't think I ever said its easy. I just criticize the way its being done at the moment.
 
I've managed several projects that involved extremely similar elements. Design iteration, testing, QA, bug reporting feature requests and above all; communication with your project stakeholders.
 
Ask any project manager and they will tell you that the last one is one of the most critical, because the perception of how well your project is progressing and being run is as important as achieving your milestones, if not more so in a corporate environment.
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Well, they have, but it's not the response people were looking for.
 
They said multiple times that PVP is a lot harder to handle.  Thing is that PVP bots can look a lot more "natural" from a code perspective than a mining bot (which really have to fly around or they'll get eaten by something too often).  The rating tanking is even harder because, quite frankly, at first they weren't sure it was "against the rules".  Once they decided to do something, it's hard to do that with a bludgeon.
 
What they seem to have settled on in the broad strokes is making gear closer together (so that 1200-rated PVPers aren't that far off 1800s anyway) and to scale stats with rating (so tanked rating = lower gearscore, you can't take your ATP with you).
 
I'm not sure this fixes the core issues, but might help.  I was against the healer rebalance at the time (I thought that it was easy enough to break coordinated healing with coordinated cc and dps, but I was one of the few voices), and I think healing was definitely nerfed too far.  So heals probably need a rebuff again to a happier medium.
 
I think Carbine's doing what they can, but these things are a bit more nebulous than you'd think.  Like the PVP heals issue, do they know it's really a problem because of the numbers they got?  How much of a problem?  Is it as bad as everyone says it is?
 
Unfortunately, PVP is harder to "fix".  I don't think there's a game anywhere that it is "fixed", because if you're losing and you don't think it's your fault, you come on the forums to complain.  Raid bosses can't log in to ask for a PC nerf because they're getting facerolled by too many people.  Things like rating tanking are more objective issues they can fix; I don't think people should get 1800 gear and intentionally drop to 1200 so they can bully other 1200s for money.  But any game with PVP is going to eat criticism on that front.
 
The best thing to do is be pointed in your criticism.  Hell, numbers and theorycrafting are why the changes were enacted in the first place.  I have my own list of pet peeves I want addressed (though mine are centered more around my mining laser sometimes disappearing randomly and me appearing to shoot a high-frequency laser out of my manhood), but I can objectively say that people running through high end PVE and PVP trump my concerns.  Theirs are deeper, more systematic, and will take more time.
 
Getting a noise when I draw my weapons while moving just isn't high up on the list of issues, nor should it be.
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Actually, yes you did say it was easy(which is why I asked):
I wasn't asking if communication was easy, I was asking about the development and implementation of that fix for PvP gear you used as an example.  
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			I can't wait to play World of JonnehCraft, with its perfect coding and perfect gameplay that suits everyone all the time.	
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Actually a stakeholder in project management terms is anyone with a vested interest in your project for any reason, not a financial interest. A person who will use the software you are iterating on is the definition of a stakeholder, as they are the people who will be testing, giving you feedback and ultimately using your software.
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Unless they have done something really, really wrong. Yes, that change is that easy. Select * from where itemid=XXXX <changestats>
 
Done. 
 
Show me the schema and I'll have it written for you in an hour, promise.
 
(and I know jack about SQL, my father happens to be a retired DBA so I picked a lot up)
 
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I don't want to be snarky like some have been, but really? :huh:  :rolleyes:   So if it really is that easy, why isn't it done yet?  I mean, you're saying you can have one schema done in an hour.  So, how many are actually in the game?  Multiply that by the changes that it could cause in other areas(I say that because there's been a couple of times I've seen "Well, we fixed ______, but for some reason it broke _______"), and it seems to me it isn't quite as easy as all that.  
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"Fixing PVP" isn't the thrust of it though.
 
Lets take matchmaking. This is a system with a purpose. The purpose is to score, balance and reward your playerbase for playing the content. Its designed to be a yard stick for your skill in order to assist the game in providing you with the best experience, ie; matches against similarly skilled players against whom you have a good chance of winning.
 
Agreed?
 
So why is there a gear difference? Why is there gear you can take from one rated system (arena) and queue against others using it at a lower skill rating? Why is the gear you are using not a factor in your matchmaking system? Its an anomaly, a total rogue element.
 
Now you match me against a guy in 1200, and I smash him easily even though we are both 1400 RBG rating. There are two issues here; the fact that the gear gives such an advantage is one, but the second is a total unknown with no response from the devs thus far. Why can I do that, legitimately? Its no fun for the 1200 guy. He has no chance really, and will lose rating for the pleasure.
 
That is a fundamental system flaw. Its not a question of balance, or mechanics or anything that can complicate MMO gaming. That is pure numbers, clear as day.
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I super serious when I say it really is that easy.
 
I would hope there is only one schema for player inventories, it would seem to be super complicated to store that information in another place in a different schema unless you can think of a purpose for that..?
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Third and most importantly, I wouldn't mind if the development department heads had a weekly get-on-the-forums-and-give-an-honest-update-of-what-they-did.  I'd appreciate the information, regardless of how flammable it might be.  But I'm glad they aren't spending that much time on social media.  I expect that they're working, hard, on fixing things and coordinating so they don't break more.  Once weekly summaries from the department heads, just a paragraph or two talking about the work they did, issues they had, dreams of seeing the sunlight with their children, would be more than sufficient.
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As a person who PVPs the odd BG on a whim, I don't have the answer to that question.  But I think that's where the answers are, in aiming people towards Warplots the way PVE players are aimed at raiding.  PVE players, even solo players, want desperately to raid, with or without the requisite skills or investment, but at least they want to see the endgame.  It's a mystery to me (one you, as a PVP-only player) might solve as to why Warplots don't have that same magnetism.  You'd think 40-40 fights in custom bases for a BG would be more of the thing to do.
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Yes, 'the Devs are listening' was cute at first, but there are issues outside of PvP that have yet to even be acknowledged.  There are quests going on 2 weeks that can't be completed, causing people to stop playing or unsubbing completely.  A simple response from a developer would go a long way in subduing the frustration.
 
I understand that PvP takes time to fix - it is a major function of the game.  But quests? 	
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That's not strictly true, though.  Armor and weapons aren't in a simple database list; a lot have custom stats, slots, and effects.  So I know, just from that, there are a LOT of variables that have to be accounted for.  It's not like in WoW (where your explanation holds water) where all of item X are the same.  In Wildstar, Item X can have thousands of permutations as the stats increase.  I've no idea how they made that work in practice (there are a lot of possible ways to do it), but a simple line item wouldn't be enough.
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What would help is a post, in either news or in general, that's the "Wildstar Top 10".
 
This list could be maintained by a single person on the dev side of the house, stating the top 10 community issues, if it's an actual issue that they're working on, what is being done to address it, and the general timetable in which it can be expected.
 
This wouldn't require a huge amount of resources save maybe one person who would be pulling the feedback from the forums to aggregate it into the list.
 
Here's an example or two:
 
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There's a perception that the population has declined sharply, it's hard to run group content and the AH/CX are running dry on some servers.
 
Carbine's Feedback: Everything's fine - have you SEEN warplots?
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I'm pretty sure each item still has to have a unique ID, even if its slots and stats are randomized in some way. In which case all you are doing is altering the stats and leaving the rest of its fields alone as they are.
 
If its much more complicated than that, they have shot themselves in the foot by doing things poorly imo. Which is fine, mistakes can be made. But post, and tell us about the delay and why.
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Part of the problem is how spread the information is, we were told we should see something "soon" that condenses all information in one location. 
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Don't worry Jonneh, when my power comes back on and I'm not on mobile, I'm going to go full Batman and rescue your post from all of the veiled white knights and fanboys telling you this game isn't as big of a mess as it is.
 
Let me drop a couple major observations into this post and then I'll further outline them later.
 
1. The "Devs are listening," is a joke. They might be listening but they're doing whatever the hell they want anyway.
 
2. Almost all of the issues with PvP stem from 3 core problems, all of which were discovered and explained within weeks of release and probably beta.
 
3. None of these fixes or whatever you want to call them show ANY foresight or longevity awareness. This game is becoming less and less new player friendly. Unless the goal is f2p, in which case they might be okay for a p2w model.
 
The largest issue that I have is the speed at which they can implement new broken features faster than they can fix core issues, compounding prior issues.
 
Top this off with what seems to be the single worst QA dept in the history of MMO development and you get posts like these and a forum filled with questions and negativity.	
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Thanks for your efforts, but I think we can agree these barely scratch the surface, and most of the PVP issues are gated on the fact that the gear gap and matchmaking issues are probably hiding or creating other issues, and therefore need to be live sooner rather than "two weeks later still wondering whats going on."
 
So, communication? Some. Ineffective though, I think most would say.
 
Here is another: Matchmaking currently gives each RBG team a set win/loss amount. But my RBG score is lower relative to the team we beat or lose to, so shouldn't I win more and lose less? Averaging our whole team's rating over time?
 
That would make sense, but its not how it currently works. Atm I am stuck 250 rating behind our highest rating player and I'll never catch him, and we'll have to over-farm rating by 250 to get me the same rewards.
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Also I find it hilarious everyone is acting like PVP is impossible to get in to for a new character that didn't level in the first week the game was out.My stalker has been 50 for about a week as of today and I'm already in full 1500 gear and all the 1600 implants, shield etc.No carry.  Random arena partner from /zone chat in Illium that had the same level gear as me.
 
Can't wait for the new gear patch.  So eager to see the next excuse on the forums when people can't use 1800 carries as an excuse anymore.  If you've played on the PTR the difference between an 1800 warrior and a blue prestige pvp armor warrior is about 100AP.  BYE BYE EXCUSES.	
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Also I find it hilarious everyone is acting like PVP is impossible to get in to for a new character that didn't level in the first week the game was out.
 
My stalker has been 50 for about a week as of today and I'm already in full 1500 gear and all the 1600 implants, shield etc.
 
No carry.  Random arena partner from /zone chat in Illium that had the same level gear as me.
 
Can't wait for the new gear patch.  So eager to see the next excuse on the forums when people can't use 1800 carries as an excuse anymore.  If you've played on the PTR the difference between an 1800 warrior and a blue prestige pvp armor warrior is about 100AP.  BYE BYE EXCUSES.
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The gear gap fix has been on the PTR for almost a week...  Sometimes maybe you should fact check your own statements...  o.O
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Well, if true then great. Thats still 2 weeks away, so not good enough for me but hey. Plus I didn't see a post, or even anything in the PTR notes about it.
 
Thats one point out of about 20 others made if true.. not really digging much out of that communications black hole.
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Given how the previous content drops have gone, re: "everything is golden on the PTR", nothing matters until a couple days of live anyway.
 
Still waiting for most of the bugfixes I was pleased to see in the Sabotage notes...	
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Seriously though, I'd have a high level briefing every day with someone who was responsible for monitoring the forums and look into the "hot issues". I'd be browsing the logs, checking out what had been going on. I'd write a query that told me how many 1200 teams had faced 1800 teams and what their winrate was, and instantly saw there was a problem that a) it was happening a lot and b) it was obviously a hatchet job for the underdog.
 
I'd respond, even if it was just a quick one to say "we will look into this" and then maybe schedule a weekly update for major issues. It sounds like a lot of administration, because it is, but I'd happily pay that cost if it helped convince even 25% of my players that I was on top of their key issues. It would turn "the devs are listening" into a two way street, now they are listening and responding. All the while you can keep the code monkeys doing what they are doing.
 
I'm sure some would be unhappy. But the Mod's earlier attempt to link dev responses would look a lot better with actual responses, wouldn't it? Even if it was just something from last weeks update saying they still needed to work on it.
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