116550-just-not-having-fun

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So, a while ago, I said the combat in this game was far too simplistic, and rather boring -- too easy to be all that fun. So, people told me to hit 50, and then see what I think. Well, after hitting 50 on a few characters, my opinion is even stronger: This game's combat is boring.
 
When I first heard about this game, in the Winter of 2013, I thought it sounded so cool, and that it would finally replace WoW for me (had played for close to 10 years, and was burnt out with it, and wasn't excited for WoD at all, since it was going to gut all the classes), and that I would find a new game to play. Well, that was going well until I saw the UI. Then, I saw that this game was one of those games who had a limited set of abilities. GW2 and FFXIV got boring for me because of that system, since it eliminates a lot of complexity and depth from the classes and combat, but the game looked so cool in those videos, I figured it could do well even with it. Heck, it had 20+ dev's from Vanilla WoW, so it's go to be at least somewhat good, right? Well, I'm not going to try and sugar coat it; the combat is boring.
 
Oh sure, with fewer buttons to push you can focus more on the mechanics, right? Yeah. That was the excuse. They wanted the difficulty to come from the monsters, not from the rotations. Sadly, they decided it would be better to make everything into a telegraph, and to make 90% of that interruptable, effectively eliminating any damage that could happen, and making the monster take more damage too! So, let's say you don't interrupt. The fight should be somewhat challenging then, right? Well, maybe if you have arthritis so bad you can hardly move your fingers. Dodging out of red is hardly a mechanic, and it's not challenging. Even when you don't dodge out of the red, nine times out of ten, you lose maybe 15% HP, if that. From what I've seen, the "bosses" in this game are just glorified trash monsters that have some minor VO work. They're not interesting, they're not challenging, you don't feel satisfied when you kill one, they just eat up your time. If the mechanics from the fights were truly challenging, then maybe you could excuse a bit of button trimming. However, there's a balance that must be met in all things. In Wildstar, the combat was far, far too simplified.
 
"Oh, if the rotations were any harder, no one would be able to do anything!" is the line I hear from people when I suggest making combat a tiny bit more complex and fun. Maybe Carbine and NCsoft saw that most gamers have an IQ below room temp. these days, and pandered to that? I don't know. What I do know, is that the combat in this game is simplistic, easy, and boring. When you kill a boss, you should feel like you accomplished something. Do you feel that in this game? I really don't.
 
So let's look at the classes themselves, shall we?
 
Each class in Wildstar should feel like a unique experience, something totally unique and interesting on its own in the Wildstar universe. However, what we have are a bunch of robots that repeat the same - exact - thing over and over and over and over and over and over again. If you look at the DPS chart for any class, you'll see that 50-80% of the damage they're doing comes from one ability, 5% comes from their builder, and the rest of the damage comes from passive effects that take no user input to happen. No matter what class you look at, they all follow the same pattern: Build > Spend > Build > Spend > Build > Spend > Build > Spend... The only differences between the classes are the aesthetics and the rhythm at which they do damage. They're not unique in their mechanics, as they all have the same basic damage pattern. They're not unique in how they do damage, because they all spam their spender. So, does anything really set them apart? No, not really.
 
First up, the Stalker. Now, there are a couple builds for the Stalker out there: The standard Impale build, the standard CK build, and my Clone / CK build that parses well. Now, how does a Stalker play? They spam Impale, use Ruin or AW on CD for SP gen, and use Punish when they run low on energy. When all else fails, they spam Shred until something comes off CD for them to use, or they regen enough SP. Oh sure, you might use CK to lower the CD on Punish, and you might even weave in Clone like I do, but 90% of your button presses are still Shred / Impale.
 
Medic could honestly almost get away with one button. You spam GR, and keep spamming it until you run out of actuators, then you build them up again, and start spamming. Throwing in Fissure and Probes between casts doesn't make the combat any more interesting, hell, it even lowers your DPS when you're not casting GR.
 
Espers are kind of a tricky one to label. They have lots of buttons that they use, but that's only because instant casts help them generate PP faster than spamming TKS does, meaning more damage. If TKS did any more damage, then they could get away with just spamming TKS until they have 5 PP, and using MB. Hardly what I'd call "engaging."
 
Warrior, Rampage and RS. Need I say more?
 
SS generally use a lot of buttons because everything has a lengthy CD, since they don't follow the build > spend pattern. So, you end up spamming Quick Draw 90% of the time (usually 40-50% of your total damage too), and use a different attack every now and then just because it hits harder than QD.
 
Engi I haven't played enough to judge, but since 80% of your damage is Electrocute, I have a pretty good idea of what it's like.
 
So, now I ask you, what kind of person in their right mind would enjoy spamming one or two buttons into infinity? And don't try to tell me it's hard to do so while dodging red, because unless you're seriously arthritic, it's really very, very easy. Combat in an MMO needs to be engaging, fun, and NOT static and repetitive. I know everyone touts the whole LAS system because it allows so much more build diversity (which it really doesn't), but they ignore the fact that combat itself is incredibly dull, static and just plain boring.
 
Now is there anything to fix it, and make combat fun? Well sure there is! But, it would require a revamp of many things in the game, and I honestly don't believe it would ever happen. I made a post about ideas on how to fix it, and people said it just needlessly complicated things, so I won't bother retyping it all. If you want to read that, go ahead. Here's a link.
 
I just don't get it, honestly. Are gamers just stupid? Lazy? I don't know. I can't imagine anyone would find combat like this fun. And every MMO and game in general is becoming simpler and easier these days. What is the appeal to easy, simple, boring games?	
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			Imma sound like a dick for saying this, but people don't care, I personally enjoy the combat and the LaS system, you have complained quite a bit about you're issues with the game and I think most people get the point, you don't need to make more posts and/or threads talking about it. Sure it is good to voice your opinion, but it's not like Carbine will revamp one of their biggest things in the game, they dont want wows style of 15-30 buttons, and while I do like that system, I do think Wildstars functions just as well, I often use all my abilities on my warrior. But if you think this is simplistic go play gw2 lol, and while I love that game, I dont really enjoy the combat much.	
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Tell me, after all of the whine fest threads you've made, and after saying how bad the game is...
 
Why are you still playing?	
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Medic could honestly almost get away with one button. You spam GR, and keep spamming it until you run out of actuators, then you build them up again, and start spamming. Throwing in Fissure and Probes between casts doesn't make the combat any more interesting, hell, it even lowers your DPS when you're not casting GR.
 
 
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Interesting view. I definitely don't get the same feel of fluidity or fun from this game's combat that I got from WoW at its height, but I don't think the game's ability system is as simple as you're portraying it here. There's way more going on, and more planning/knowledge required, than FFAAR or Rift or SWTOR on launch. Are you accounting for how tier changes manipulate single abilities and synergy across a given LAS?
 
Have you run veteran dungeons? Raids?
 
Also, personal opinion, I enjoy dodging the red. It's not about intellectual difficulty, it's about pacing— keeping the action constant— and hand-eye coordination. If this were the only challenge then it'd be weak, but I'm also not sure what you're saying about bosses, because I've seen plenty of diverse mechanics from places like STL. And I've taken significantly more than 15% health damage.
 
???
 
 
 
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Maybe Carbine and NCsoft saw that most gamers have an IQ below room temp. these days, and pandered to that? I don't know
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I'm still playing because, like I said, every other game out there is just as simplistic and easy. This game at least has the option of losing, whereas most others don't. I like the art style, the story, all that.
 
And my 50 Medic with 2360 AP who beats people in raid gear by a LARGE margin would like to argue otherwise, Naz. So, yeah. Every button you add that is NOT your spender will dramatically lower your DPS. This is true for every class outside of Esper.
 
You know, people say they quit over the bugs, over the slight imbalance, because of this or that, when the truth is, they would still be playing if they enjoyed the game. Do you remember Vanilla WoW? Shamans and Rogues would one-shot people, the servers didn't even stay up for more than an hour, and all that. Did people play? Millions did. If the game was brilliant, fun and just amazing like you all say, where is everyone? They would still be playing if they truly enjoyed the game, right?
 
As for unique mechanics, I just don't see them. Bladewind - Big AoE, disarm, little AoE's that chase you, disarm again, bigger AoE. Nothing unique, nothing interesting, just a bigger monster with more HP. Aethros is slightly unique, because of the whole room you have to move through and how he splits apart and all that, but other than that? Not really unique. Stormtalon has all of two unique abilities, Static Wave and Eye of the Storm, and even those are fairly generic. The rest of his abilities are just standard, boring abilities. I'm failing to see how the bosses are innovative, interesting, and unique.	
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Sciela, put your last post in context— 
You're not having fun
 
But you continue to play the game because no other game is fun
 
And you've decided to contribute a lot of negativity to the forums in addition to not having fun
 
 
You're not just bored, you're in a deficit. Go out and find a new game. :P
 
edit: and I don't mean that in a hostile gtfo way. It sounds like you're genuinely unhappy, there are a lot of hidden games out there. Wasteland 2 is neat if you're into that kind of thing.	
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Honestly, Esper, I've looked for a new game many, many times, and I have been since a month after Wildstar's release. There just aren't any games out that I enjoy anymore. Everyone is so obsessed with this "action" crap, simplifying the game, and making it easier / instant gratification... there's just nothing left. All the big name games are boring, and all those little games are boring as well, and dead to boot. Society is moving away from intelligent thought and challenge into an age of pleasure, instant satisfaction and instinctual responses. Everything is done for us, and thinking is generally frowned upon these days.
 
I'd enjoy an MMO that had combat like a mix of Wildstar, GW2 and WoW, with some fighter like elements to it, with combos and all that, but that just doesn't exist. I don't think anyone would even play a game like that anyway, because it wouldn't be easy to do well, you'd actually have to pay attention to what you're doing and focus on both your abilities -and- the fight, not just one or the other, you'd have to react intelligently, and so on.	
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For me to even begin to take you seriously I would like to hear how far you have progressed and
also see links to your logs.
 
**EDIT**Looking at your posts I see that you haven't even stepped into GA.
Come back when you have some more data bro.	
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			For me at least, if the combat was more complex, i wouldnt be able to play it. Im not a moron, but between the telegraph dodging, moos, heal aiming, clensing, cc breaking, phase remembering/co ordination, i dont need a more complex system.Yes i would welcome more viable builds, but not more complex rotations increased LAS.	
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I was thinking about a fighting game MMO the other day. Would be an interesting concept, but difficult, like you said.
 
That aside, it sounds like you're in a funk. I've found a lot of fun and challenging games, but I have pretty diverse taste. If a friend asked I would recommend Wasteland 2, DOTA 2, Wildstar, and Fallen Enchantress, but for different reasons: in order, awesome immersion and party development, very polished and fluid cooperative gameplay, best housing ever plus a unique combat system, and the last game has probably the most depth I've ever seen in a TBS title. Oh and if you're not raging about the end, the Mass Effect Trilogy is just fantastic in so many ways.
 
If you can't find something to enjoy from any of these games, you might need a few orgasms to get you out of this dark spirit... :P	
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Well, looking over those games, I don't really enjoy the turn-based things, unless it's Pokemon, Final Fantasy or Bravely Default style. I've also played Mass Effect, but never finished the second or third one, as I got bored part of the way through. I'm not much a fan of shooters either. :P
 
Honestly, I enjoy Nintendo games more than anything, but once I beat them, they're just not as good. It's like reading a book again, or watching a movie again, it just doesn't have that same charm.	
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And my 50 Medic with 2360 AP who beats people in raid gear by a LARGE margin would like to argue otherwise, Naz. So, yeah. Every button you add that is NOT your spender will dramatically lower your DPS. This is true for every class outside of Esper.
 
 
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I do all that, and more. T4 Discharge, T8 GR, Fissure, T7 Collider, Atomize, T3 Nullifier, T3 Dev Probes, and PS. My current build. I keep 100% up-time on Core Damage, weave in Collider and Nullifier, and generally do far more DPS than anyone in my run. Yet still, 90% of my button presses are GR and occasionally Atomize.
 
And all those AMPs are passive, so they have no effect on your rotation.
 
Fissure > GR > GR > GR > Atomize > GR > Nullifer x 2 > Innate > Dev Probes > GR > Collider x 2 > GR > GR > Atomize > GR > Fissure > Dev Probes > GR >... Of course, you'd have to throw in Discharge when RNG fails me. But really, that's my rotation.	
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I think, and please do not take this offensively, that this sounds like it is more a problem with you rather than the game.
 
You find nothing enjoyable, which I know you've mentioned in other threads, of depression and mental health issues. If you worked on these personal issues, maybe you would see the game in a much more positive light as well as other games, too. I'm trying to be as sensitive as possible here, as I know it's quite a mean thing to say to someone, but I'm serious, try to sort out your personal issues before you pass harsh judgement on something. I feel so much negativity and apathy in all your threads that you really need to find something you love to do, or work out some personal issues because they are negatively affecting your enjoyment of pretty much everything. (I battle depression as well as a more serious mental health issue, so I mean this in in the most positive light I can, awareness of such things are important, and learning to take care and love yourself is important)
 
It genuinely sounds like you just have way too high expectations, games are not built specifically for your tastes but the tastes of joe blogs, the general target audience. You need to lower your standards a bit, find a few friends in a guild who you can start to form friendships with, find the fun in the game yourself rather than complain about the way it's built, becauseif you are having fun, such tiny gripes with the combat and LAS will be quashed by the actual fun you are having.
 
Good luck, and take care.
 
EDIT: And for the record, I find wildstar's combat system incredibly fun and diverse. It is a brilliant game with very interactive combat. Not just tab target nothingness :) 	
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I do all that, and more. T4 Discharge, T8 GR, T2 Fissure, T5 Collider, Atomize, T3 Nullifier, T3 Dev Probes, and PS. My current build. I keep 100% up-time on Core Damage, weave in Collider and Nullifier, and generally do far more DPS than anyone in my run. Yet still, 90% of my button presses are GR and occasionally Atomize.
 
And all those AMPs are passive, so they have no effect on your rotation.
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I just don't get it, honestly. Are gamers just stupid? Lazy? I don't know. I can't imagine anyone would find combat like this fun. And every MMO and game in general is becoming simpler and easier these days. What is the appeal to easy, simple, boring games?
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Unless you're a theoretical physicist or something along those lines, I highly, HIGHLY doubt there is any job in the world that is so mentally taxing, unless my statements about intelligence are true -- that or people come home and drink / smoke themselves into being a moron, which is actually pretty common these days.
 
Video games started out as something that would challenge you, something you felt good about beating, and all that. Now it's just a social thing, with lots of preening and e-peen flexing. If you want mindless entertainment, seriously, just go watch TV. But you know, that attitude applies to nearly everything these days; TV shows, movies, books, video games, and just life in general. Everything is simple, mind-numbing, and makes everyone seem like a genius, when they're really not.
 
And honestly, I don't care if I'm rude. If I came in and cried so much that something you used to love was changed so dramatically that you can hardly stand looking at it anymore, would you be happy? That's pretty much what has happened with video games for me, thanks to the kids that play video games these days.	
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I do all that, and more. T4 Discharge, T8 GR, Fissure, T7 Collider, Atomize, T3 Nullifier, T3 Dev Probes, and PS. My current build. I keep 100% up-time on Core Damage, weave in Collider and Nullifier, and generally do far more DPS than anyone in my run. Yet still, 90% of my button presses are GR and occasionally Atomize.
 
And all those AMPs are passive, so they have no effect on your rotation.
 
Fissure > GR > GR > GR > Atomize > GR > Nullifer x 2 > Innate > Dev Probes > GR > Collider x 2 > GR > GR > Atomize > GR > Fissure > Dev Probes > GR >... Of course, you'd have to throw in Discharge when RNG fails me. But really, that's my rotation.
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I just don't get it, honestly. Are gamers just stupid? Lazy? I don't know. I can't imagine anyone would find combat like this fun. And every MMO and game in general is becoming simpler and easier these days. 
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This has to be a massive troll post. Because I can't even take this spec and rotation seriously, from someone who claims that they know what they're doing.
 
No T8 Discharge?
No T4 Dev Probes for the detonation?
Using Collider?
No Dual Shock?
No T4 Fissure?
 
What are you doing? Unless the people you're grouped with are naked/in terrible gear, there is no way you'd out dps anyone of the same gear level who isn't flatout terrible or is the tank.
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Hey All - 
 
This thread is going in all the wrong directions so I'm going to lock it up now. OP, there's a ton of stuff coming in the future for WildStar. We hope that you take some to check back in and see those changes. 
 
Thanks	
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