110868-suggestion-rp-pvp-but-not-individual-servers-read-inside

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OK I am not advocating for PvP-RP servers at all so before you post cancel those thoughts! :P
 
In SWG it was possible for "guilds" to engage in PvP and form "special flags" where only those guild participants could engage in PvP.
 
Advantage: Players could control the reason for their "guilds" engaging in PvP for Story reasons. It was not limited to just the "opposite faction" so the same faction players could engage in PvP for story reasons (i.e. a rivalry).
 
It would be nice if somehow Carbine could implement a system for PvP-RP on existing RP servers that emulated some sort of control or agreement between guilds.
 
This way those that don't want the drama of the "gank fest" that is the usual norm for PvP severs will not have to undergo such and those in guilds that want to have a "game mechanic" way to advance their RP stories ( other than dueling ) will beable to do so.
 
Example: On Elvindra maybe players in Blazing Saddles and Skullkickers would like the opportunity to PvP for RP reasons to weave our complex RP stories.
 
Please consider this.
 
(( Also .. this is not a "PvP" thread so please do not move this to "PvP" it is a general consideration for debate amongst the player base and hence General is the place for this type of debate.))
 
 
Forgot to mention ... EVERYONE in the "PvP circle could engage in PvP ... so people in the same guild could frag each other for story reasons.
 
Basically, we had an out of game web server where we would "write our stories" and use the game mechanics to enhance the results. In guild, across faction and in the "PvP circle". ;)	
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So .. anyone down with this idea for RP servers so as not to have a PvP-RP server?
 
Carbine .. is this possible? :)	
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			I gave up on the entire idea of RP-PVP months ago. Sorry.	
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Don't give up yet, Tex.  I've got an idea dependent on server types that could ease your woes.
 
Right now, the RP server is seen as a PVE server with a different rule type (and, honestly, PVP servers are just PVE servers with different open-world flag rules).  It's been a staple since WoW that there could be both PVE and PVP servers, and that they largely do the same things.  This was meant as an integrated approach and was done the cheapest and easiest way possible, with flags.  It's since become a de facto standard.  And that's sad, because PVE and PVP servers absorb wildly different players, generally speaking.
 
Hence, I previously came up with an idea for PVE and PVP servers to increase "open world" participation that would make them different.  Essentially, players would get rewarded for doing open world content, but their content would be wildly different.  At the moment (without seriously doctoring the zones anyway) the best way to do this would be to offer extra elder gems and (at the completion) a piece of decent blue gear for a series of "quests" that reset weekly (or daily, depending on how the rewards scale).  On PVE servers, these rewards would be related to open world PVE encounters already in-game oft-ignored world bosses and even more oft-ignored 5 man rares.  On PVP servers, this becomes open world PVP, killing certain numbers of players for the rewards.  This will entice people into the open world to do what they're supposed to be doing by server type, promote PVE playing on PVE servers and promote world PVP on PVP servers.
 
New zones (or you could even doctor the old zones) could even have differences between the two, with world bosses being set up in areas on PVE servers that are used for Halaa style PVP on the other.  This works well in the megaserver idea we've been discussing, since that only bumps up the number of people in a given shard.  It also (if you need to level characters separately) gives people a major difference in their leveling experience, meaning you could level a medic on a PVE server or megaserver, then level a medic on a PVP server or megaserver, and have the experience be VERY different because of what's going on in the open world.  Hell, they could even make it so that raid attunement is different, making the world boss attunement set only for PVE servers and replacing it with a player kill counter (or PVP objective counter) for PVP servers.
 
But where does that leave the hypotetical RP server, the third wheel?  Truly, at this point, there simply aren't enough players for an RP-PVP server.  But there are a lot of PVPers who like to RP that rolled on Evindra (like Tex).  This is where the OP question comes in.  What happens to the RP server?  Do we get lumped in with the PVE server rules and just have our own corner with our own conventions?  Also, won't we lack people to do open world content in a megaserver capacity on our own?
 
So how about this.  We treat the RP server as its own entity with its own rules starting with the faction flag being made irrelevant.  Dominion and Exile characters can group, raid, and party together if they so wish (even guild together).
 
The flag for PVE or PVP is set at the beginning of the day (the last selected is the default).
 
Those who flag for PVE operate as a normal PVE server.
 
Those who are set for PVP cannot be attacked by PVE players.  However, between PVP players, PVP is free for all and the only "friendlies" are those in your guild, raid, or party.
 
These do not follow into BGs or other instanced content at this time, this only works in the server (at this moment, anyway, megaservers would make faction issues relevant again).  However, since raids are put together entirely on server, the largest group we'd have to worry about on an RP server from a crossfaction group would be a five man, easily made un-PUGgable if crossfaction members are in the guild.  And for BGs, honestly I think queue system assigning by faction is fine, but I'm almost tempted to say warplots SHOULD work crossfaction.  They seem to be flying fortresses that gangs take to each other.  It would make it a lot easier to fill ranks if you could draw mercs from everywhere.
 
I'm firing most of this from the hip, coming up with a good way to separate it, but that seems to put the RP server in a middle ground with rules that doesn't require a rework of the environment (PVPers would choose to PVP for the day, they'd be FFA between each other, like gangs of thugs or vigilantes or militias).  It would also make a strident difference between the server choices and make sure that the RP server, if dwarfed by the other server types in the long run, wouldn't suffer population issues.
 
Any criticism on that's welcome, like I said it's just a floating idea that would take some work to implement.  RPers so far seem to be the most willing to let the process work out, so it's not like we can't be just a PVE server with RP rules until then.  But it might be nice to see that not only do we roleplay, but we have server conventions that simply don't exist on the others, making us idiosyncratic.	
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I like your gumption to type up such a well-thought-out idea.
 
Other than that ... yeah. I don't want to group with Dommies and I don't want to fight off the entire Exile faction, either.
 
It's cool. No worries. Carbine didn't cater to us then, and they're not going to cater to us now. They've got a sinking ship to save, and the five or six RP-PVPers left in the entire game are small beans at this point.
 
I do appreciate the sentiment, though.	
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But where does that leave the hypotetical RP server, the third wheel?  Truly, at this point, there simply aren't enough players for an RP-PVP server. 
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sadly there really aren't enough for a single RP server either
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I like your gumption to type up such a well-thought-out idea.
 
Other than that ... yeah. I don't want to group with Dommies and I don't want to fight off the entire Exile faction, either.
 
It's cool. No worries. Carbine didn't cater to us then, and they're not going to cater to us now. They've got a sinking ship to save, and the five or six RP-PVPers left in the entire game are small beans at this point.
 
I do appreciate the sentiment, though.
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Hey, Evindrites are usually the last people asking for server issues.  Our server doesn't often complain about server populations.  I've heard Dominion players say their CX can be barren, but I run across other players all the time.
 
Evindra's doing fine.  Servers like Rowsdower are the ones that need the help.
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			I think Vic's and Kytar's ideas have merit, and something along these lines would be a great tool that interested guilds could use to set up staged or pre-planned open world fights.	
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just because some are worse doesn't mean its doing fine. its not doing fine, exile side is doing ok.
you don't hear them complain as much?  well there isn't anyone there to complain!
. theres no arguing it just log on, its far from healthy.   maybe if we magically eliminate that faction barrier ..
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Vic,
 
I Like your ideas!
 
Bottom line I take away ( kinda like mine ...implied ). RP servers need to have their own "rule set" other than the "traditional theme park" PvP and PvE rule sets that don't really fit RP needs. ;)	
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			In another game I'd played, guild leaders could declare hostility to another guild, and if the leader of the challenged guild accepted, then members of one would be able to attack members of the other anywhere in the world [which was, a few zones excepting, a PvE world]. Is this the sort of thing you're looking for?	
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			Yep Robo .. that is basically how it was in SWG (plus guild anyone in the agreed upon "rule" being able to attack on and other ... so people in same guild were flagged for "rivalry" stories reasons). :)	
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I wanted to have something like that with Skullkickers. These things take time though. In the meantime I've discovered unsavory elements in both factions that may give RP-PvP events a hard time.
 
If you are going to do this, screen your participants and prepare for the worst.	
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			Well such is our mortal plight with "free will" dear Rocio. ;)	
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			You know, honestly, guild on guild PVP maybe suits this game more than factionalism.  There are a lot of questlines that feel more like one faction running ops against itself, and those are often the most fun.  Maybe the faction barrier shouldn't be down on most servers, but I would love to see same-faction BGs et al, as well as declared gang warfare.	
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Tex is right. He and I were there fighting the good fight back in May. The RP-PvP community was crushed. We are already fractured, guilds like mine went to PvP servers, and his went to RP servers. We all lost.
 
Carbine treats RP-PvP player like terminal cancer patients. They just want us to go off, die quietly, and give a frownie face when we're gone.	
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			Hence the reason for a suggestion of a new "rule set" for RP-PvP instead of a new server.	
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Hence the reason for a suggestion of a new "rule set" for RP-PvP instead of a new server.
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Well To be honest if some guilds hadn't had been selfish and went to Widow (Yeah i went there, you guys were and you just hurt the community, like I said you would.) and we all worked together on Evindra, none of this would be an issue, but it's cool I made a Dominion Guild for a reason. 
 
 
BLOOD IN THE SNOW SOON!	
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Well To be honest if some guilds hadn't had been selfish and went to Widow (Yeah i went there, you guys were and you just hurt the community, like I said you would.) and we all worked together on Evindra, none of this would be an issue, but it's cool I made a Dominion Guild for a reason. 
 
 
BLOOD IN THE SNOW SOON!
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Cool, but because we were right about Carbine not caring, and you were wrong, I'm not screwed out of PvP and you are. Eat a dick.
 
-Zeroden
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Ummm what the hell are you talking about Turd Blossom, you guys weren't right about anything you guys were convinced that if you RPed on a PvP server they'd notice. if anything you guys only doomed any chances we had. 
 
I love how stuck up you guys are even though it's basically your fault, the community got fractured. FYI I have PvP too, and a good community. Something Widow doesn't have. :P
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WE are stuck up, but YOU are calling us selfish for not doing what you wanted us to do. Riiiight. You're also a hypocrite btw.
 
-Zeroden
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No I'm really not, because in the end I'm on a server where the RPers banded together, and we have a great community with RP and World PvP can easily be built up just have to have leaders on both sides to build it, sadly we didn't have any Dominion Leaders at launch I'm rectifying that now.
 
I told each and everyone of you what would happen, the RP community would eventually die off on Widow (and it did. :P ) etc etc. While any form on RP-PvP is taking longer than I would have liked to form. I still have more possibility of succeeding in the long run than your lot ever had. 
 
You were selfish, you thought of yourselves over the community, I thought of the community over myself, and you know what I'm glad I did. Evindra has one of the best communities I've seen in an MMO in quite awhile.
 
So take your pixilated failure pompousness somewhere where they care. 
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No I'm really not, because in the end I'm on a server where the RPers banded together, and we have a great community with RP and World PvP can easily be built up just have to have leaders on both sides to build it, sadly we didn't have any Dominion Leaders at launch I'm rectifying that now.
 
I told each and everyone of you what would happen, the RP community would eventually die off on Widow (and it did. :P ) etc etc. While any form on RP-PvP is taking longer than I would have liked to form. I still have more possibility of succeeding in the long run than your lot ever had. 
 
You were selfish, you thought of yourselves over the community, I thought of the community over myself, and you know what I'm glad I did. Evindra has one of the best communities I've seen in an MMO in quite awhile.
 
So take your pixilated failure pompousness somewhere where they care. 
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It occurs to me that you are a being of lesser intelligence and I am arguing with you over the internet.
 
Oh, you really are though. Because Widow's PvP community on the Dominion is comparable to the RP community on Evindra. Your "ALWAYS STAY FLAGGED LOL" Idea was both terrible and non-starter on Evindra, and any amount of World PvP you may have achieved from it pales in comparison to spending one day in a daily zone here on Widow. You claiming that I am selfish for not going to your server to PvP holds as much water as me calling you selfish for not coming over here to RP with us.
 
Both claims are ridiculous, and neither one of them are going to change. The devs made a decision. If I had to choose between RP and PvP, I will choose PvP every time. The fact that a choice exists in the first place is the injustice, and you redirecting Carbine's failure toward anyone else but Carbine is you being a jack ass, pure and simple. Hence why you are so willing to "Go there", as you knew already that your were making the statement of a selfish jackass in the attempt to misdirect us from the brown stain that is you.
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Blah, blah,blah, blah
 
Funny, I'm the one of lesser intelligence buuuuuuuuuut you went to insults first? I at least tried to keep mine somewhat humorous and linked to a rather fun movie, as to not break the forums rules :P
 
Sooo perhaps you should rethink that part of your argument.
 
Further showing you're lack of intelligence, I never once said I was trying to change the dev's minds. They've been made, pretty sure we all know that by now. So since you read real gud. I'll make this easy on you.
 
U abandoned RP community, we don't care what you think or have to say, so buh bye now.
(also I know people on Widow Dominion, please exaggerate more to make your bad choice not seem bad. :P)
 
 
Ohhh look you called out the pixel patrol, the team of we stopped mattering a long time ago. Please bring out your whole ego inflated guild to back you up since you clearly can't handle me yourself. Just too funny.
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So you're saying that the method of 'hey lets all go to the RP server to PvP' is working from the perspective of RP and not in terms of Open World PvP because you -lack- the people to sit on Dom side and want to do it?  Then in the same breath you say it's our fault for going to a PvP server.  Lets play hypotheticals here and to give you a little info on the Widow RP situation.  It never really started know why?  Because hardly any RP guilds even came to Widow and those people who did have already quit the game leaving a handful of us who even like RP left.
 
So now the hypothetical.  Had the RP-PvP Guilds come to Widow here is what could have happened.  A small community of tight nit RPers who knows each other forms on Widow during Launch.  Those Guilds turn it into an RP alliance and interact pretty much with that Alliance for the RP needs.  They make connections and grow as a community who, yes has to deal with the first month stupidity and BS of PvPers, but hey there are -plenty- of tools in the game to avoid dealing with them like this wonderful feature called RP chat that Carbine put into the game.  Moving on.  That community also interacts with the PvP community to which they claim to enjoy and become a part of that.  Result everyone wins you get the RP and the PvP.  Reality you pushed everyone to go to Evindra because 'qq people will despise us.  They will hate us.  They don't want us.'  The messed up part about this mindset? 90% OF THOSE GUYS have quit the game and no one is around to bother RPers anymore. 
 
So no we did not mess up anything because we are at least getting our PvP.  The RP community on Widow was dead the moment you even made suggestion to go to Evindra.  It's cool you got your RP, but you don't have real open world PvP and for someone like the Kiith-Sa Hunter that is what we love more then RP.  That is what a real PvP player wants.  No flag bullshit.  No having to setup fights.  Open world encounters that just happen.  Big battles that start from someone ganking a rival or some random guy doing dailies.  I don't regret going to Widow.  I regret the RP community not having the balls to go there and make a stand with us. "(Yeah i went there, you guys were and you just hurt the community, like I said you would.)"
 
- Azexton Hunter
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Hypocritically calling someone selfish is an insult, being of lesser intelligence.
 
Sooooo perhaps instead of trying to just sound smart, you should make the effort to....you know...actually BE smart.
 
My guildmates whom are active on the forums follow my posts on the forums. I'm sorry that yours don't? I mean, I don't know what you want me to explain for you there. Sorry I have friends?
 
/shrug
 
-Zeroden
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Hahahahaha how little you know sir.
 
I can go look at your Active on the forums" guildmates" post history ya know, You guys barely post anymore at all. So please make up more stories.
 
As for my guild mates, You can look at almost every thread on the GD and there's a Skullkicker posting there, just because I don't force uniform Icons, and signatures on them, doesn't mean they're not all around. Plus I would never ask, or expect my guild mates to run to my aid, and would likely PM them to back down if they did.
 
There was nothing hypocritical about what I said, I didn't name any names when I said what I said, and there were more than just you, you're the one who took offense so someone has a guilty conscience. :P
 
The Widow lot ruined any chance of Carbine noticing us there were more systems in place for them to notice us on Evindra, than Widow. Though because you have to always be right you could never admit to that (and I am right here.) 
 
Though truth be told we're all fools, because I think it was clear that Cougar just force fed us that line "if there's enough response blah blah blah we'll think about it", was a load of bull.
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That's interesting, because Azexton maintains a sticky'd information thread on the forum that he checks daily, which was originally posted in June. So....you pretty much just shoved your own foot in your mouth. But again, you're a being of lesser intelligence, so this is par for the course with you.
 
Thanks for telling me about your guild. This information is pertinant to me because....? Oh. It's not. I honestly don't give a shit about what you or your guildmates post. I'm not e-stalking you for information to create a petty argument to support your invalid statement about nothing relevant to the topic whatsoever. Misdirection. One more bullet point in the laundry list of why you're an idiot.
 
As for your "Guilty conscience" statement....uhh...yeah? Are you seriously this retarded? You make a marginalized insult towards a group of people, and seem surprised when someone from that group helps you shove your fist down your throat. You're not the sharpest knife in the cutlery.
 
Those hypothetical "systems" you are referencing have helped you in no way. With our presence, they would not have helped. Without our presence, they obviously did not help. Your last statement is the truth that I've been pointing to all along. Carbine, Cougar, whoever is in charge of pulling the trigger, NEVER intended to give us the server we were looking for. The RP server was FULL at launch. They opened up 5 NEW PvP servers AFTER they made the statement regarding metrics and numbers and whatever other bullshit smoke screen they wanted to throw at us.
 
RP-PvP was not on the table. Period. Don't be fooled by they dangled in front of you.
 
-Zeroden
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			Dear Tex. They split the RP-PvPers. Pago has a few that would love to do it, and I mean more then 5. It's hard to balance :< 	
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Dear Tex. They split the RP-PvPers. Pago has a few that would love to do it, and I mean more then 5. It's hard to balance :< 
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I ahem, barely even skimmed. 
 
Tera had this. Part of their political system and you could declared guild versus guild on every server. 
 
Don't make it an rp related idea. Make it a pvp wpvp idea. GvG was fun until the open world pre-raid event sigh. That's not a problem really in WildStar. 
 
GvG would encourage a larger scale version of rivalry. They should do it for that reason alone, forget rp. It's just extra bonus if rp people can use it too and get involved in it. 
 
World v world would still be better IMHO but why not have all. 
GvG of Tera and wvw of gw2. That's some pvp even I'd get down for.	
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I ahem, barely even skimmed.
 
Tera had this. Part of their political system and you could declared guild versus guild on every server.
 
Don't make it an rp related idea. Make it a pvp wpvp idea. GvG was fun until the open world pre-raid event sigh. That's not a problem really in WildStar.
 
GvG would encourage a larger scale version of rivalry. They should do it for that reason alone, forget rp. It's just extra bonus if rp people can use it too and get involved in it.
 
World v world would still be better IMHO but why not have all.
GvG of Tera and wvw of gw2. That's some pvp even I'd get down for.
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I appreciate your views regarding what happened to WPvP ... but, I and Vic are attempting to present an alternative for RP servers based off of suggestions and experience with past games ( prior to the current Theme Park Model).
 
That said, so this doesn't get moved to PvP ( because it wasn't intended to be a PvP only thread ) and stays a discussion on alternative rule sets to enable the possibility for controlled PvP for RP reasons, please stay on topic.
 
So to reiterate, this thread is about alternative rule sets for RP servers to maybe facilitate "controlled PvP" for RP reasons.
 
Thanks.	
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One RP server, two shards. whether you are tagged for pvp or not places you in whatever shard. Main cites are on the same shard.
 
New content idea:
 
Introduce small cites or zones within each zone for each side to conquer. Each side has a different story and the victor goes the spoils (shops, lore, and quests). Kind of of like the events in GW2, only instead of things resetting after five minutes, maybe they last a week and it's pvp based, not fighting npc's (well ok, maybe a big boss fight where the other side has a chance to come back in and swoop away with a victory). These areas should also be on the same shard like the main cities.	
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Just make a macro that says 'Arise my Champion' when you rez, and 'Have at thee' When you auto-attack.
 
 
There, you're now RP-PVP'ing!	
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Tank,
 
"Thees and Thous " don't a RP make. ;)
 
Join the RP dark side Tank on Elvindra! :D	
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			Would be cool to get some dev feed back to see if the ideas presented here are viable with the way WS was developed. *hint hint* ;)	
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Would be cool to get some dev feed back to see if the ideas presented here are viable with the way WS was developed. *hint hint* ;)
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Maybe,
 
But with the advent of the news of the mega servers perhaps this is a time to recreate the rule set for RP servers and implement some of Vic's and the suggestions that I made. ;)	
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You could look at this one of two ways after the merge.
 
There are no RP servers.
 
All servers are RP servers.	
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Since we already have a discussion thread up on megaservers, I'm going to lock this thread. Please keep all conversations on feedback in one location. 
 
 
Thank you! 
- Team WildStar 	
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