121233-an-innovative-new-business-model-idea-page-2

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Thank you so much for responding to the actual mechanisms for earning urnedsub instead of just repeating things I've already addressed several times already.
 
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So players will do 4/5 and bring in one pug. When does it register and award group? If upon entry premade can boot 5th and burn through content with full. If upon completion team gets to end have someone step out and kill with or without 5th there at last boss.
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If there is a way for people to pay for their subscription without anybody spending real money, I'll be against it.  There needs to be a revenue stream for Carbine.  Besides, earning it by doing positive things?  You're going to pay for a sub using a subjective system?
 
The current model isn't broken, I see no reason for Carbine to fix it.
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Certainly innovative, but not realistic, nor a good idea.  Any system like this would be heavily gamed.  The crafting suggestion would just turn new CREDD into old CREDD, since you will just farm (or do many of the things you find unsavory) and craft and have someone else consume/soulbind the item for you.  Dominating your opponent in PVP should never take away from your currency, since it is not the winning player's fault the matchmaking can't function properly because very few people are playing.  Playing the AH is something that people enjoy, they like economic PVP, so there isn't a reason to punish them.  
 
Where they lose money is people who don't currently participate in the current CREDD system (e.g. your normal subscribers) earning Ursub and not having to pay their subscription, even if it is just occasionally.  Now, this may make the game better and garner more subscriptions, but more likely it just increases the population of players not paying anything.
 
Although, I do think it would be interesting economic experiment to see how well Carbine could regulate the economy with this system. 	
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I have a new idea:
 
People should earn CREDD by streaming raids and only by streaming raids.  Or maybe by participating in a raid being streamed too because I like those people.  It generates twitch and other media views which have the potential to generate interest in the game and anyone not doing so is detracting from the game... because I said so.
 
Oh wait that's a terrible idea and alienates everyone who's play style doesn't coincide with my own.  Never mind, lets not do that.   :huh:
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No. A paying subscriber pays cash for their subscription.
A CREDD seller pays cash for plat.
A CREDD buyer doesn't pay their $$$. Carbine inserts then into the cash-for-plat cascade in a completely unnecessary way and thereby subsidizes their play.
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The biggest problem with your system is that it has the high potential to cost Carbine money in the long run. Credd having a dual purpose is important. Not every Credd is going toward paying for someone's subscription. I pay a sub fee every month, but I'm sitting on several Credd because they've already doubled in value from the first few months of the game's life when I bought them on the exchange. I'll continue to hold onto them for a while longer until they've appreciated a bit more and will hopefully pay off the majority of the 80p mount speed cost..
 
Your new token's only purpose is paying for sub fees, and potentially the entire player base is now earning them for normal play. No one's going to sit on those because they're just money on the table if they're account bound. If you make them tradeable, they just become a redundant form of Credd. There's a fair chance that Wilstar would need a cash shop like other F2P games to subsist on your token, and at that point you may as well just go full F2P.	
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The biggest problem with your system is that it has the high potential to cost Carbine money in the long run. Credd having a dual purpose is important. Not every Credd is going toward paying for someone's subscription. I pay a sub fee every month, but I'm sitting on several Credd because they've already doubled in value from the first few months of the game's life when I bought them on the exchange. I'll continue to hold onto them for a while longer until they've appreciated a bit more and will hopefully pay off the majority of the 80p mount speed cost..
 
Your new token's only purpose is paying for sub fees, and potentially the entire player base is now earning them for normal play. No one's going to sit on those because they're just money on the table if they're account bound. If you make them tradeable, they just become a redundant form of Credd. There's a fair chance that Wilstar would need a cash shop like other F2P games to subsist on your token, and at that point you may as well just go full F2P.
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No. A paying subscriber pays cash for their subscription.
A CREDD seller pays cash for plat.
A CREDD buyer doesn't pay their $$$. Carbine inserts then into the cash-for-plat cascade in a completely unnecessary way and thereby subsidizes their play.
 
We're talking about both of them. That's why your equations had two people. I understand just fine. But I think you don't understand at all, because you appear not to grasp that the person who bought CREDD with cash is not doing it because they want to fund someone else's subscription. They want the plat. If they can have the plat, they will still buy it whether the plat comes directly from Carbine or not.
 
Try reading the OP and maybe you'll understand where it comes from.
 
If you actually went back and read the OP to understand the last bit you didn't get, then perhaps you will have also managed to spot that I suggested a way for the conversion between cash and plat to track the plat supply and change with it and keep pace with the overall expansion and contraction of the economy. As long as cash-for-plat represents a small fraction of the total plat supply, this generates no real danger of being a source of inflation--and the cash-for-plat exchange can easily have an automatic ceiling imposed on it if it exceeds that small fraction. The metrics for where that should be are no doubt in the hands of the development team already.
 
This would, as you note, still be vulnerable to any in-game exploit that allows massive amounts of plat like the garden exploit did. That will massively increase the value of CREDD until that plat is removed. Just like it does in the current system. So it's not an improvement there. But it's not a new threat either, it exists already right now.
 
The current system is already P2W. The plat buyer doesn't care where the plat comes from.
As for the virulent effects of freely available plat that we observed during the gardening exploit, perhaps you could quote for me where I suggested "effectively infinite amounts of plat should be obtainable at no cash cost and with almost no in-game effort"? I don't recall advocating it.
 
 
 
What's the shape of this conversation we're now having? Oh look. It's a circle.
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FYI - CREDD expire after a few months, IIRC.  You best use 'em.
 
Secondly, we've already explained this -- that isn't how CREDD works.  CREDD ONLY comes from real money, and through tthe process of one person buying CREDD and selling it to someone for money, that's revenue.  If I have to explain this again I'm going to vomit.
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Unless there's some fine print somewhere, unclaimed Credd only expire on inactive accounts.
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Certainly innovative, but not realistic, nor a good idea.  Any system like this would be heavily gamed.  The crafting suggestion would just turn new CREDD into old CREDD, since you will just farm (or do many of the things you find unsavory) and craft and have someone else consume/soulbind the item for you.  Dominating your opponent in PVP should never take away from your currency, since it is not the winning player's fault the matchmaking can't function properly because very few people are playing.  Playing the AH is something that people enjoy, they like economic PVP, so there isn't a reason to punish them.  
 
Where they lose money is people who don't currently participate in the current CREDD system (e.g. your normal subscribers) earning Ursub and not having to pay their subscription, even if it is just occasionally.  Now, this may make the game better and garner more subscriptions, but more likely it just increases the population of players not paying anything.
 
Although, I do think it would be interesting economic experiment to see how well Carbine could regulate the economy with this system. 
 
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I agree that it is possible to lose money if the system isn't tuned properly. The current system also fails if it's too easy to earn plat because then nobody spends cash on CREDD and CREDD supply evaporates, or if it's too hard to earn plat because then nobody can provide enough plat for the cash spenders to view it as worthwhile.
 
The goal would be to tune the effort required to game it so that the number of people participating are about the same, but the activities being participated IN are beneficial to the larger game community rather than just the person farming the plat and the person buying it.
 
But on the other hand, imagine the payout if people here stopped spending the time they used to earn CREDD on plat farming and spent that same amount of time actually being helpful. Imagine that people coming to this game stop showing up and asking "where is everyone?" and instead go tell their friends that they went into the game and not only does it have a cool setting and combat system, but there's people helping them through the queues, offering to mentor them, the AH/CX isn't wildly inflated. That word of mouth would make a big difference in affecting the existing prevailing views about this game.
 
So it would have to be tuned and adjusted, just like the drop rates and sinks are tuned and adjusted. But still seems worth having the discussion about whether it could be done at all, no?
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I am not sure how to break up qoute like you have, excuse my mess.
 
PVE
I should rephrase premade concern. Rather for what I mean is of people who form randomly outside and use LFG for transport? I see in this community many willing players who offer to teach new players in and off their server. Would you not reward players for taking upon self to form group and contribute to community without LFG? 
 
It would seem to me that forcing pick up group would lead to more frustration as wildstar does not use bulletin boards to align intentions. I read that 4th drop gives incentive to queue already and feel that is enough as encourage as whole people to do content.
 
As for support it is not always black and white. In rift and I imagine here too that people carry 2 sets of gear for their roles. However they may find that they are not as geared to carry out role as another person in group as one example. So they may switch mid run for easier time to complete. Otherwise this option is not available and will result in disband instead of working together.
 
In regard to queue. If it was in very short time, fine. However currently queue is very long for some and they may afk and miss when pops.
 
 
PVP
I can agree overkill is no fun , but can go both ways. I cannot say how dramatic gear makes difference , but that is not the fault of players. The primary issue though as well is defeated team can potentially throw themselves at the winners to increase their kill count and in turn reduce their currency. This can occur natural too as often you have players who play harder and not smarter.
 
You can't really threshold based on damage taken and healing done as it is highly situational. What if as example tanker in tiki cap map is not grabbing many tikis as damage because damage grab first. Tank on paper taking less damage as he not focused as much. Does that damage role then count as tank because he was taking more damage?
 
Unlike pve PvP does not ask for role as not nearly clear cut. Some people I imagine in this game like medic may even use one or more healing though dominating ly damage built.
 
Also no to the costing of currency for spawn camp. If anything the player spawn camp should be banned if they exploit way inside the spawn point. However if not best detterent against such act is for defeated team to plan way out of it. I see often people will trickle out in those situations instead of gathering together plannin . And moving out as team.
 
In regard to market, then what if creater of original posted item decided to raise price? What is different there? Also who is to say exactly how the originally posted item was acquired.
 
 
SOCIAL
As for RP I should rephrase myself here as not to be specific to this. The housing mechanic you mention makes me feel would people just not stick them self inside random house and camp out randomly tapping controls to not be AFK?	
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4. Are you the sort of player that unapologetically trashes everyone else's game? I'm sorry to say that if you're here If you're going to make everyone around you have less fun, you should pay for the inconvenience to everyone else. It won't cost you a huge amount for each infraction, but if you make a habit of them they'll start accumulating faster and faster until you take the hint.
 
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I agree that it is possible to lose money if the system isn't tuned properly. The current system also fails if it's too easy to earn plat because then nobody spends cash on CREDD and CREDD supply evaporates, or if it's too hard to earn plat because then nobody can provide enough plat for the cash spenders to view it as worthwhile.
 
The goal would be to tune the effort required to game it so that the number of people participating are about the same, but the activities being participated IN are beneficial to the larger game community rather than just the person farming the plat and the person buying it.
 
But on the other hand, imagine the payout if people here stopped spending the time they used to earn CREDD on plat farming and spent that same amount of time actually being helpful. Imagine that people coming to this game stop showing up and asking "where is everyone?" and instead go tell their friends that they went into the game and not only does it have a cool setting and combat system, but there's people helping them through the queues, offering to mentor them, the AH/CX isn't wildly inflated. That word of mouth would make a big difference in affecting the existing prevailing views about this game.
 
So it would have to be tuned and adjusted, just like the drop rates and sinks are tuned and adjusted. But still seems worth having the discussion about whether it could be done at all, no?
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Yasfan,
 
                  Why do you troll so much?	
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I read the OP, believe me.  I understand exactly what you're trying to implement, you're trying to implement a system whereby doing things you think are valuable in a broader community approach are awarded with free gametime, you want Carbine to become a direct registered goldseller using their power to generate currency, and you want to keep people who have simply ground currency the most efficient and simple way available to them from buying their game time that way.
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We can debate economics all day until we're blue in the face.  The fact is Yas insisting that players who earn their credd by paying in-game money are hurting the game and has have zero proof of that that I've seen.  Additionally he's also insisting that everyone fit into his own little narrow point of view on what's right and wrong "or else".
 
Yas in your own signature you suggest that players should be allowed to spend their money and free time as they see fit.  You seem to have left off that part that adds, "As long as I'm okay with what they're doing".	
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A Very interesting read...
 
I hope the current system stays as it is, I just bought the game 10 mins ago. Besides... From what I've read the game is already B2P. With Credd u can essentialy never pay another dime in sub costs after buying the game and using your free 30 days.
 
Just have to wait and see how it goes :)	
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A Very interesting read...
 
I hope the current system stays as it is, I just bought the game 10 mins ago. Besides... From what I've read the game is already B2P. With Credd u can essentialy never pay another dime in sub costs after buying the game and using your free 30 days.
 
Just have to wait and see how it goes :)
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PvE
Asking about a boss fight and not inherently knowing the strat - Lose an Urnedsub
3rd place in DPS role at the end - Lose an Urnedsub
Let the tank die - Lose an Urnedsub
Pull threat off a tank - Lose an Urnedsub
Standing in damage that is otherwise avoidable - Lose an Urnedsub
Dying during an instance - Lose an Urnedsub
PvP
No PvP gear - Lose an Urnedsub
Complain about getting "facerolled" - Lose an Urnedsub
Not playing the objective - Lose an Urnedsub
Edit: these are thing that I find "unsportmanlike" and hurting my enjoyment of the game :)	
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PvE
Asking about a boss fight and not inherently knowing the strat - Lose an Urnedsub
3rd place in DPS role at the end - Lose an Urnedsub
Let the tank die - Lose an Urnedsub
Pull threat off a tank - Lose an Urnedsub
Standing in damage that is otherwise avoidable - Lose an Urnedsub
Dying during an instance - Lose an Urnedsub
PvP
No PvP gear - Lose an Urnedsub
Complain about getting "facerolled" - Lose an Urnedsub
Not playing the objective - Lose an Urnedsub
Edit: these are thing that I find "unsportmanlike" and hurting my enjoyment of the game :)
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Give CunningLinguist 200 plat - gain 1000 Urnedsub. This would massively improve my enjoyment of the game.  :D
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			Just popping in to say I read the OP and think this is a terrible idea. Carbine likely won't be taking this seriously and you'd be a fool to think otherwise, sorry. 	
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But even if we set those issues aside and pretend that I was in fact insisting on having my own way, the "or else" part would be "or else pay 50 cents a day to play a really awesome MMORPG and do whatever you want", which is hardly pulling out the chains and spikes.
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			So I was perusing City of Heroes screenshots when I noticed that @yasfan01 was on my global ignore list.  Funny coincidence...	
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