110955-so-whats-our-incentivecarrot-now

== Content ==
			
People worked towards amp and ability unlocks, as a long term goal with elder gems.
People worked towards 1800 gear because of the better stats in PVP.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy about the changes. Soon enough everyone will have full amp/ability, and everyone's gear is pretty much equal now in PVP.
 
But I'm genuinely wondering what is our long term incentive now? Once everyone's rating is reset to 1200 with equalized gear, what is the point of doing arenas? There are currently no rewards for wanting to rank up and have a high rating.
 
We really need new incentives in place to keep players chasing something. You always need a carrot worth chasing, and we are going to need new ones to continue to play and keep player interest high. I already predict everyone's going to be facerolling through all PVE content (outside of 40 mans) in 1-2 months when most people have max amp/ability plus perfect rune slots from the rune changes. So question is, do the devs have a long term plan for us and the game's direction in regards to progression?	
----
			Whatever happened to pvping because you enjoyed the game play...	
----
			 I guess until the current sh*t's been sorted out, they'll have new content ready to drop.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Whatever happened to pvping because you enjoyed the game play...
----
			 Playing, or at least the epenis  of doing  hard stuff  before your friends/enemies and with more  style and skill.	
----
			
Good question and point. I have noticed a lack of a long term objective for things as well, but with what we have at the moment I'm still more than satisfied.
 
I am curious to see what new challenges and "carrots" are planned, as there definitely does need to be more for both PvE and PvP. PvP titles, mounts, and other cosmetic rewards would be great, and perhaps some randomized solo and small group PvE objectives thrown about daily or weekly. The dailies will not do the trick, and will get stale very fast.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
People worked towards amp and ability unlocks, as a long term goal with elder gems.
People worked towards 1800 gear because of the better stats in PVP.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy about the changes. Soon enough everyone will have full amp/ability, and everyone's gear is pretty much equal now in PVP.
 
But I'm genuinely wondering what is our long term incentive now? Once everyone's rating is reset to 1200 with equalized gear, what is the point of doing arenas? There are currently no rewards for wanting to rank up and have a high rating.
 
We really need new incentives in place to keep players chasing something. You always need a carrot worth chasing, and we are going to need new ones to continue to play and keep player interest high. I already predict everyone's going to be facerolling through all PVE content (outside of 40 mans) in 1-2 months when most people have max amp/ability plus perfect rune slots from the rune changes. So question is, do the devs have a long term plan for us and the game's direction in regards to progression?
 
----
			Instanced PvP.. the same thing over and over.. gets old.	
----
			
It's weird to me that people keep asking for the game to take up 100% of their free time...
 
It's a game. You play it until you've done what you want to do, then you log out and play another, or go do something else. If you get EG capped and don't want to run any more dungeons/adventures/raids/pvp, or decorate your house, or play the AH/farm for money, then go play another game.
 
 
MMOs don't have to be your life... That kind of mindset is very prevalent around here and it's strange.
 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Instanced PvP.. the same thing over and over.. gets old.
----
			
There is no long term carrot; nor is the game Hardcore any longer (at least after these updates are made).
 
In the time it would take to get a single NM drop in FFXI you can have a toon leveled 0-50 and attuned in W* extra points now come faster than Paula Dean in a butter factory and Unless you are a raider gear drops are worthless for progression. 
 
 
Very sad to say it; but W* went from a moderately skill intensive hardcore game to a moderately skill intensive shiny pixel welfare dispensary.	
----
			
Can't speak for Arenas.
 
I'm pretty much burnt out on "chasing the carrot" for AMPs and ability points via eldar gems.
 
But what's changed? All I red on the patch notes was AMPs and ability points can be sold on the CX. Doesn't make them any less rare?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
There is no long term carrot; nor is the game Hardcore any longer (at least after these updates are made).
 
In the time it would take to get a single NM drop in FFXI you can have a toon leveled 0-50 and attuned in W* extra points now come faster than Paula Dean in a butter factory and Unless you are a raider gear drops are worthless for progression. 
 
 
Very sad to say it; but W* went from a moderately skill intensive hardcore game to a moderately skill intensive shiny pixel welfare dispensary.
----
			
I PVP for fun? Cake me right?
 
 
No i actually do it for the bags and lootz. I get all my monies from pvp!	
----
			Lol, I find it funny that this is from a pvp point of view - obviously I completely misunderstand what pvpers want.  I thought it was level playing fields and a fight to the death! 	
----
			Well aren't we lucky we're playing a sub based game.  I mean, I was always told that the point of paying a monthly sub was that the developers had a regular income with which to develop new carrots for us to chase. So it doesn't really matter if the current ridiculous 43 week grind has been removed because supposedly, there will be new shinies, and new carrots to go for. What a marvellous idea. I wonder why it hasn't been thought of before. 	
----
			
Personal opinion, grinding Elder Gems for AMP/Ability Tier points was never a carrot for me (don't worry I'm not a Dev so nothing I say will have an effect on the game :P).
 
AMP/Ability Tier Points were something that should have been far more accessible IMO. It's not like it's something visual that can be shown off anyway, it's additional character development.
 
Epic/Legendary/Artifact/Amazeballs gear, that's much more of a carrot to me. If you want DEM PINKs, you gotta beat the hardcoreiest content in our game (Raids) and that takes time and dedication to doing. I'm never going to get a realm first, but clearing that content is still an end-goal for me in WildStar.
 
Other incentives for me are clearing the Story Content, finding out more about the world, unlocking something visually exclusive like a very rare mount or customisation. I'm not a PvP player, but surely things like Seasons will still be an incentive? And the 1800 gear is still going to give you an advantage, it just means those in 1500 gear won't get facestomped even if they are of a high skill level. Folks in 1800 gear with the skills are still going to win, but those in 1500 who are better than those in 1800 will now have a fairer chance. Good thing no?
 
It's all different strokes for different folks really.
 
I'm sorry to hear that the AMP/Ability Tier points were a particular carrot for you, but I feel the game still has plenty of incentives to offer.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well aren't we lucky we're playing a sub based game.  I mean, I was always told that the point of paying a monthly sub was that the developers had a regular income with which to develop new carrots for us to chase. So it doesn't really matter if the current ridiculous 43 week grind has been removed because supposedly, there will be new shinies, and new carrots to go for. What a marvellous idea. I wonder why it hasn't been thought of before. 
----
			
If you want the 43-week slog to get your AMP/Tier unlocks via EG, you're still very free to do that.  Don't buy from the rep vendors and sell any you get as drops.
 
Be your own stick.  Make your own carrot.	
----
			
Imho REAL pvpr's don't live in rbg's they go out and become terrors in open world pvp. Not to say that some aren't terrors in rbg's just sayin the most memorable pvpr's i have encountered in the many mmo's i have played have earned their stripes by being legendary without others backin em up. The carrot is being that guy that makes other guys pack it up and come back later.
 	
----
			To run the content. That's is the entire incentive for playing the game.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
To run the content. That's is the entire incentive for playing the game.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 People play games to play games? What sick twisted world is this!?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Interesting how a big quality of life change such as making items that were always intended to be available, readily available.
 
Looks like you're still bitter about those changes.  Let's try to move on from the negativity and start focusing on what really matters, this game can be fun and functional again!
 
There are plenty of carrots:
 
PvE - Gold dungeons / Raids
PvP - Awesome looking gear / future leaderboards etc
Currency - How much gametime can you stock up?
Crafting - Keeping up with dailies to be the premier crafter on the server
Forums - Making lots of constructive posts so people don't think you're so toxic (Nazryn)
 
See plenty of things you can do!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Thanks for dropping in Anlath. Always good to hear from our beloved Com. Manager :)
 
I think those of us who are less than pleased are so BECAUSE these points were progression, rather than something like gear. I can't speak for anyone else; but putting in the time to farm them / having to actually dedicate a sizeable amount of effort to obtain them was something that at least some of us enjoyed. Call me crazy; but when I was in college farming skill points / and collecting limit points in FFXI, that actually felt like 'endgame progression'. Sure it took 3- 6 months to cap your limit points; and could take weeks to cap a skill; the feeling of accomplishment after was a genuinely rewarding feeling. The same can be said about the old AMP / Ability system. Sure it may not have been intended; but you could either farm for a week and a half or save EP for a few weeks to get a point / tier. Once you got one though (especially if you were farming them) it was a major feeling of accomplishment. 
 
Just my 2 cents. The changes will no doubt improve player concurrency (at least for a while), and that was the major issue most folks have been having with the game recently. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Imho REAL pvpr's don't live in rbg's they go out and become terrors in open world pvp. Not to say that some aren't terrors in rbg's just sayin the most memorable pvpr's i have encountered in the many mmo's i have played have earned their stripes by being legendary without others backin em up. The carrot is being that guy that makes other guys pack it up and come back later.
----
			
Yeah man, my carrot is to play the game for what it is: a game. One week I can spend 40hour on wildstar, the next, I log only 1 night for a couple BG.
 
If you need something else than the game to play the game, I'm not sure what to tell you.
 
ps: ok ok, maybe I haven't play this week because i'm suspended, but that's another story ;)	
----
			
Most pvpers PvP because they find it fun.A few pvpers PvP because they are top players and want the title / mount / other reward for being a top player.
 
There are plenty of incentives to PvP. For me the PvP gear isnt a reward, its something i can use to own harder while doing something i enjoy.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Absolutely get that, it's just one of those "different strokes" kind of deals. One players trash is another players treasure and all that stuff.
 
It's difficult, because I do think (personally, ofc) those points need to be more accessible BUT I do understand that for some players they were a great sense of progression.
----
			You all should tell me more about "real pvp'ers" and what they do. It's almost as compelling an argument as "Carbine didn't design this game to cater to 'x' crowd!".	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Absolutely get that, it's just one of those "different strokes" kind of deals. One players trash is another players treasure and all that stuff.
 
It's difficult, because I do think (personally, ofc) those points need to be more accessible BUT I do understand that for some players they were a great sense of progression.
----
			pew pew	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Whatever happened to pvping because you enjoyed the game play...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
"Real" PVPers don't play MMO's.  They play fighters, mobas and shooters, all of which are pretty much standard across the board and there's not "gear" to make up for lack of skill like MMO's.
----
			^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^ (btw, CSGO rock)	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Imho REAL pvpr's don't live in rbg's they go out and become terrors in open world pvp. Not to say that some aren't terrors in rbg's just sayin the most memorable pvpr's i have encountered in the many mmo's i have played have earned their stripes by being legendary without others backin em up. The carrot is being that guy that makes other guys pack it up and come back later.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah man, my carrot is to play the game for what it is: a game. One week I can spend 40hour on wildstar, the next, I log only 1 night for a couple BG.
 
If you need something else than the game to play the game, I'm not sure what to tell you.
 
ps: ok ok, maybe I haven't play this week because i'm suspended, but that's another story ;)
----
			There really is not a carrot anymore, gear progression is completely fail, most crafted gear cant be beat by any gear you will get from dungeons.  While this change might keep some of the current players for a couple of months when they get all these points and have nothing left to do they will leave the game because the progression has been taken out of the game except for raiders which some people just don't do.  I guess we will have to wait and see what new content pops up but making the content too easy to acquire means the game gets boring.  Hopefully combat continues to be fun because that is the only reason I am here anyway. 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
Bottom line:  PLAY A GAME FOR THE FUN OF IT!
~If a game isn't fun and you need a huge carrot -bait- to entice you to play, then you're doing it wrong and should probably stop playing to instead find something that is fun to you.
----
			
Poo some of us have a ton of time, I work from home sometimes 2-3 months at a time.
 
Anyways, back in EQ1 there was so much to do for the 7 years I played, I couldn't ever log in and not have something to do, whether it be farming an illusion mask for my bard, key pieces for access to raid, gems for slots on gear, shrinking trinkets and much more. EQ also had a system I've never seen in another game.
 
AA's
 
Alternate Advancement tabs, pretty much micro levels that improved your character in everyway imagineable and added innates etc. I think EQ1 has some 10,000+ AAs today.
 
No matter what there always seemed a group to be in or solo shit to do or even late night raid bosses with pugs.
 
I absolutely hate it when people say oh its not peak hours in wildstar ppl aren't on , BTW this game is so great has so much potential! No.. its not great a great game has ppl on at anytime doing anything they will find a way to be on and those ppl that have tons of time there are  a lot of them...they will flock.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I agree, lets stop paying professional athletes. Let them play for the fun of it. Lets also stop awarding medal's, trophies, and any form of recognition for success. They should be happy enough enjoying their games. While we are at it, let's take the betting out of professional poker; I bet they will be very happy to finally be able to just play for the fun of it :)
 
 
 
 
 
[/sarcasm]
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I agree, lets stop paying professional athletes. Let them play for the fun of it. Lets also stop awarding medal's, trophies, and any form of recognition for success. They should be happy enough enjoying their games. While we are at it, let's take the betting out of professional poker; I bet they will be very happy to finally be able to just play for the fun of it :)
[/sarcasm]
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Poo some of us have a ton of time, I work from home sometimes 2-3 months at a time.
 
Anyways, back in EQ1 there was so much to do for the 7 years I played, I couldn't ever log in and not have something to do, whether it be farming an illusion mask for my bard, key pieces for access to raid, gems for slots on gear, shrinking trinkets and much more. EQ also had a system I've never seen in another game.
 
AA's
 
Alternate Advancement tabs, pretty much micro levels that improved your character in everyway imagineable and added innates etc. I think EQ1 has some 10,000+ AAs today.
 
No matter what there always seemed a group to be in or solo shit to do or even late night raid bosses with pugs.
 
I absolutely hate it when people say oh its not peak hours in wildstar ppl aren't on , BTW this game is so great has so much potential! No.. its not great a great game has ppl on at anytime doing anything they will find a way to be on and those ppl that have tons of time there are  a lot of them...they will flock.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
People worked towards amp and ability unlocks, as a long term goal with elder gems.
People worked towards 1800 gear because of the better stats in PVP.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy about the changes. Soon enough everyone will have full amp/ability, and everyone's gear is pretty much equal now in PVP.
 
But I'm genuinely wondering what is our long term incentive now? Once everyone's rating is reset to 1200 with equalized gear, what is the point of doing arenas? There are currently no rewards for wanting to rank up and have a high rating.
 
We really need new incentives in place to keep players chasing something. You always need a carrot worth chasing, and we are going to need new ones to continue to play and keep player interest high. I already predict everyone's going to be facerolling through all PVE content (outside of 40 mans) in 1-2 months when most people have max amp/ability plus perfect rune slots from the rune changes. So question is, do the devs have a long term plan for us and the game's direction in regards to progression?
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
...
 
Are you REALLY worried about long-term goals here...or just trying to stir up some controversy?
----
			
AMP amd skill points as an incentive to play (old system)? I thought it was an incentive to quit the game, silly me.
 
This is a lose/lose situation:
 
1- you dont get your way (lose)
2- you and the other 8 players that enjoy this system get your way, hundreds of thousands of players leave, game tank (lose).
 
Im biased to talk about this, because i find the old system hideous, but obvious facts are obvious.
its just like the "utopia" of hardcored gamers thinking they can have an expensive and content rich game, without the casuals to fund everything.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Anyways, back in EQ1 there was so much to do for the 7 years I played, I couldn't ever log in and not have something to do, whether it be farming an illusion mask for my bard, key pieces for access to raid, gems for slots on gear, shrinking trinkets and much more. EQ also had a system I've never seen in another game.
----
			Forcing everyone to do dailies for a year to unlock AMPs and Ability points != incentivized carrot.  That's the opposite of reality.  Your logic does not compute.	
----
			
Edit: This post took too long to write due to work distractions, and I apologize if some of these sentences don't seem coherent. But I hope that I got my general point across.
 
Well, you guys have to remember that they are trying to cater to all aspects of the game. Just because YOU (whoever you are) are only focused on one thing, it does not mean that this one thing is the only thing in the game. Just because you don't like other stuff the game has to offer be it dailies, raids or pvp doesn't mean the developers have to drop everything that you don't like doing in a game that was designed to have a vast variety of activities.
 
MMOs are made to keep people playing for a long time, and the long grind is a big part of it. Lately in games, people want something, and they want it now! Whatever happened to grinding the same content for months on end just for that one item? Everyone here who played other MMOs should remember those days, and to me that's what got me interested in MMOs in the first place. MMOs are built with the idea to have a vast AND DIFFERENT amount of activities to focus on. And like in most other MMOs, Wildstar has a lot of content - dungeons/adventures, raids, battlegrounds, arenas, warplots, dailies, just to name a few (as if you didn't already know) - bored of one? Do another. Don't like doing one of those? Well....like I said, the developers are trying to make sure that all aspects have more or less the same amount of activities to them.
 
Personally, I don't feel like doing dungeons/adventures and want to stick mainly to PVP. But after doing 20 BGs in one sitting, do I complain because I feel burnt out a little? No, because it's MY CHOICE not do to other things, I know that the options are always there, but I made the decision not do them. So I don't hate on anyone because of my choices or complain to developers that there's no enough content.
 
I notice quite a few people on these forums who seem to have a similar attitude as me in regards to this game, we like it and we know why we like it, and the things we don't like doing we just don't do them, but we don't complain (much). But it also seems like there are some people whose sole purpose in life is too specifically look for the bad in all the good around them. You can't be so negative all the time, you'll live a better life.
 
Is the game perfect? I wouldn't say so. Are there things that could be improved? For sure! But in the end, it's your choice to pay and play.	
----
			
What happened to those days, Fonarik, is that people grew up. They went to College. They got jobs. Got married. Now they don't have enough time to put up with that ammount of grind. And the new generations aren't interested in it because they know better: they never had the problem we did, which was "this is how all MMOs work and will work forever, so I can't escape it." It is, I believe, a change for the better. It means the players are more resistant to put up with the crap the developers sometimes try to pull out of their "creative vision" just because people didn't have that many options. Nowadays, though? We have lots of options. The genre has evolved.
 
And I'm sorry, but what choices are there besides running certain content 20 times in a row? You have Dungeons/raids, then PvP, then crafting (which is less of an activity in itself and more of a side-activity) and then...dailies? Which you kind of have to do anyway because your character's progress is tied to them. That's only 3 things (and a half, if crafting is considered). And If I don't like one or more of them, then I have no choice but to run that specific piece of content all day. 
So, no. There is not enough content. I'm sorry.
 
The carrot until you max your level up is "character progression". Once you reach that limit, the carrot should switch to gear and items you can acquire. Keeping the incentive on character progression even after max level is just asking the community to become toxic against those who didn't put up with the grind, or who hasn't finished it yet.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What happened to those days, Fonarik, is that people grew up. They went to College. They got jobs. Got married. Now they don't have enough time to put up with that ammount of grind. And the new generations aren't interested in it because they know better: they never had the problem we did, which was "this is how all MMOs work and will work forever, so I can't escape it." It is, I believe, a change for the better. It means the players are more resistant to put up with the crap the developers sometimes try to pull out of their "creative vision" just because people didn't have that many options. Nowadays, though? We have lots of options. The genre has evolved.
 
And I'm sorry, but what choices are there besides running certain content 20 times in a row? You have Dungeons/raids, then PvP, then crafting (which is less of an activity in itself and more of a side-activity) and then...dailies? Which you kind of have to do anyway because your character's progress is tied to them. That's only 3 things (and a half, if crafting is considered). And If I don't like one or more of them, then I have no choice but to run that specific piece of content all day. 
So, no. There is not enough content. I'm sorry.
 
The carrot until you max your level up is "character progression". Once you reach that limit, the carrot should switch to gear and items you can acquire. Keeping the incentive on character progression even after max level is just asking the community to become toxic against those who didn't put up with the grind, or who hasn't finished it yet.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What happened to those days, Fonarik, is that people grew up. They went to College. They got jobs. Got married. Now they don't have enough time to put up with that ammount of grind. And the new generations aren't interested in it because they know better: they never had the problem we did, which was "this is how all MMOs work and will work forever, so I can't escape it." It is, I believe, a change for the better. It means the players are more resistant to put up with the crap the developers sometimes try to pull out of their "creative vision" just because people didn't have that many options. Nowadays, though? We have lots of options. The genre has evolved.
 
And I'm sorry, but what choices are there besides running certain content 20 times in a row? You have Dungeons/raids, then PvP, then crafting (which is less of an activity in itself and more of a side-activity) and then...dailies? Which you kind of have to do anyway because your character's progress is tied to them. That's only 3 things (and a half, if crafting is considered). And If I don't like one or more of them, then I have no choice but to run that specific piece of content all day. 
So, no. There is not enough content. I'm sorry.
 
The carrot until you max your level up is "character progression". Once you reach that limit, the carrot should switch to gear and items you can acquire. Keeping the incentive on character progression even after max level is just asking the community to become toxic against those who didn't put up with the grind, or who hasn't finished it yet.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I agree, lets stop paying professional athletes. Let them play for the fun of it. Lets also stop awarding medal's, trophies, and any form of recognition for success. They should be happy enough enjoying their games. While we are at it, let's take the betting out of professional poker; I bet they will be very happy to finally be able to just play for the fun of it :)
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You arguments are completly juvenile and the [/sarcasm] at the end makes me want to guess you are ..... 14? 15? years old.
 
Now to get on topic and actually respond to you:
 
Professional athletes have "playing sports" as their job, thats why they are getting payed. If your job was to sit and play Wildstar, you would also be getting payed. One way to do this is to become a popular streamer and stream Wildstar to thousands of viewers, is that incentive enough for you?
 
In case of trophies and such i am pretty sure Carbine said long long ago in a galaxy far far away (a referense you probably dont know due to my estimate of your age) that the top players each seasons would be rewarded with titles and/or cosmetics / mounts.
 
Im pretty sure you can even simulate professional poker by "betting" that you will get back to 1800 rating without ur gear:
Sell your hard earned 1800 gear.	Queue for battlegrounds/arena/warplot at 1200 rating	See if you make it back to 1800.
Did you make it back to 1800? Well congratulations you won the bet: Your reward is all the gear you earned and some fun times.
Did you not make it back to 1800? Sorry you lost the bet and your gear.
Now, as for comparing sitting at your computer for a few hours each week playing a few games of PvP in Wildstar... that equivalent cant be find anywhere in real life and trust me.. even if there were you wouldnt be getting rewards for it.
 
---
 
Should i call the fire department? Because you just got burnt son.
 
Regards,
Commander Juddy
----
			
Me, when I wake up, I want to become the ruler of the whole universe. After 30min sitting at my desk, I realise I don't even rule my cubicule.
 
Stop believing that the *game* owe you something because you paid for it. The game is what it is, and THEN you decide to pay for it.
If when you pay your month (can't wait for the next post saying: I dont pay for the game...), you don't know what you are gonna do, man.... stop paying lol.
 
If you have friends online, a guild online, a raiding night, an organise PvP circle, some achievement to hunt, some crafting to do OR WHATEVER, then you shouldn't ask yourself: why am I paying.	
----
			
You cannot compare playing Wildstar as a hobby to what people do for a living (professional sports, poker, whatever).  The incentive driving those people isn't just gameplay, they're also earning a living.
 
Surely you realized, as you wrote your reply, that people around the world play sports and other games just for fun, right?  Fun incorporates a lot of things.  Some people have fun winning.  They'll play any game (even those they don't enjoy) if they can win, because that's enjoyable to them.  
 
Playing Wildstar is the equivalent of joining a neighborhood flag football league.  You don't get paid for it.  You might even have to pay for the opportunity to play.
So why do you play?  You play because you enjoy playing the game.  Maybe the gameplay is intrinsically enjoyable to you.  Maybe it's supplemented by the feel of competition.  But for whatever reason, it's an activity that you like engaging in.
 
But you decided to go one further and suggest that a game being enjoyable isn't enough, it should be more like professional sports and professional poker (monetary or other incentives).  It is mind-boggling that you actually believe this.
 
I can't begin to comprehend what kind of person you must be if you think "don't play Wildstar if you don't enjoy it" is controversial enough to start an argument.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Your wit is so scathing and poignant... quick some one get me a band-aid for my boo-boo...
 
 
[/sarcasm]
 
yup, I've been alive for more than 4 decades but I'm totally 14. Only kids understand sarcasm.
Glad you found the time to respond to the actual point of my post as well; the fact that all games worth playing have reward systems in place. Be it monetary; prestige, trophy, etc. 
 
Since it seems comprehension can be difficult for some of us; I'll spell it out.
 
 
Games most often not played 'just because they are fun'. They are played to achieve some tangible or pseudo-tangible goal, or to sate a competitive desire. 
 
My point = games played for achievement / competition  
Other's points = games played for fun
 
One of those two statements is supported by contemporary social mores, the other isn't. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Your wit is so scathing and poignant... quick some one get me a band-aid for my boo-boo...
 
 
[/sarcasm]
 
yup, I've been alive for more than 4 decades but I'm totally 14. Only kids understand sarcasm.
Glad you found the time to respond to the actual point of my post as well; the fact that all games worth playing have reward systems in place. Be it monetary; prestige, trophy, etc. 
 
Since it seems comprehension can be difficult for some of us; I'll spell it out.
 
 
Games most often not played 'just because they are fun'. They are played to achieve some tangible or pseudo-tangible goal, or to sate a competitive desire. 
 
My point = games played for achievement / competition  
Other's points = games played for fun
 
One of those two statements is supported by contemporary social mores, the other isn't. 
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You cannot compare playing Wildstar as a hobby to what people do for a living (professional sports, poker, whatever).  The incentive driving those people isn't just gameplay, they're also earning a living.
 
Surely you realized, as you wrote your reply, that people around the world play sports and other games just for fun, right?  Fun incorporates a lot of things.  Some people have fun winning.  They'll play any game (even those they don't enjoy) if they can win, because that's enjoyable to them.  
 
Playing Wildstar is the equivalent of joining a neighborhood flag football league.  You don't get paid for it.  You might even have to pay for the opportunity to play.
So why do you play?  You play because you enjoy playing the game.  Maybe the gameplay is intrinsically enjoyable to you.  Maybe it's supplemented by the feel of competition.  But for whatever reason, it's an activity that you like engaging in.
 
But you decided to go one further and suggest that a game being enjoyable isn't enough, it should be more like professional sports and professional poker (monetary or other incentives).  It is mind-boggling that you actually believe this.
 
I can't begin to comprehend what kind of person you must be if you think "don't play Wildstar if you don't enjoy it" is controversial enough to start an argument.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
If you dont feel the competition, the sense of achievement or the fun in Wildstar PvP, perhaps try some other game.
----
			Unrelated, I don't understand why people type W* instead of WS? I mean...the 'S' key is RIGHT THERE under the W. And if you're gonna say because * is star, it still doesn't make sense, because W is not Wild. It's just doublU...so.... doubleUstar?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If you feel there is a reward structure in W* beyond just playing, then why argue my point that enjoyment frequently comes from progressing along the rewards structure? Sounds like you misunderstood my statements and are arguing a strawman; because I never said W* content DIDN'T have a rewards structure...
----
			
Where's the long term incentive for people who already farmed the money/made alts to farm out all those AMP and ability points? Where's the long term incentive for the people who already paid for their 1800 ranking?
 
Your questions suck and mine are better.
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
<everyone crying about whether taking two months out of a year long grind is hardcore or not>
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If you know there is a reward structure, then why are you here asking what the reward structure is?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 If you don't have time to play a genre that is suppose to be long winded then DON'T PLAY IT!
----
			
The PvP gear gap is still significant even if it has been shrunk.
 
1800 gear has 3 rune slots in it, and each rune gives more stats. And someone with 1800 gear is much more likely to rune them with rune sets.
 
The disabler gadget is also significantly better than the other ones.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
So what's our carrot now?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
----
			
What the cupcake is wrong with some people?
 
If you need some sort of carrot to make you play a game, how about the fact that you are PLAYING the game. 
 
You are in a virtual world and you can be apart of it. 
 
Unless you have mental dysfunctions you really shouldn't need a carrot to chase just to fulfill things that are lacking in your real life.
 
Get a job - play the game for fun.  	
----
			
To be fair, thats not how most people functions.
 
Most people are not role players ( im sayin most, not all, so dont quote me on that).
 
People need incentive to keep playing, to keep progressing.
 
Lets take a few games as examples:
 
- WoW - people that finish the current content usually cancel subscription or reduce their ingame time by a large margin.
- Dragon age, Divinity, Farcry.. <insert any game>... people usually go losing interest in the side aspets of the game the closer they get to finish it.
When i got to the last scenario in divinity, suddenly all that will to explore, do side quests and w/e was gone, because the end of the game was 30 minutes away.
Its a very common feeling in pve enviroments, and less on pvp enviroments.
 
Now lets talk WS, running those adventures or dungons 2-3 times are really fun, after that you will rarely gon in there for fun again, you will go there because there is something you "want" from there, there is a reason, objective, bonus... this is the moving force.
Right now after the fun effect is gonne (3 runs?) there is no "reason" to keep doing these things... there is no bonus, loot is garbage.
I ran blackrock spire dozens of times just because stuff in there would take my char to the next step power wise.
I ran random dungeons in WoW after the fun was gone and i didnt need more gear, because running them gave me rewards i found i deemed worth. 
I ran Sots 3-4 times, for fun the first 2 (and gear... silly me, lol), and the other 2 for attune... and thats it, no reason whatsoever to go there (gold rewarding amp points is jus ta bandaid imo).
 
I also understand that some people have fun with long and tedious grind, but lets agree here that they are a minority (in the west!). You like to grind dailies for months, run a lot of dungeons per day just for elder gems, i have nothing against that, you like what you like.
 
The issue is not that you want long grinds, that you want to do dailies for 1 year to get your amp and skill points. The issue here, is that you want to tie a very peculiar progression system to rewards that every, EVERY player in WS needs.
Carbine changed it for a reason, most players wont put up with this kind of progression, not in the west.
 
Not to mention the kind of toxic community this kind of progression nurture. Players finding themselves almost a year behind in progression and having to deal with abuses because they dont have the dam points and there is nothing they can do about it but grind for a year.
 
For me, if WoW had:
- action combat (wildstar/TERA wise);
- more content updates (its really BS that they have such huge gap between content, considering the amount of $$$ they make)
- graphical update;
- fix raid finder loot ( i dont care about people getting wellfare epics, as long as they are worse them raid epics... it seems they are doing that by taking set bonus and some trinkets out of RF);
- had harder content outside of heroic raiding. Harder world mobs, harder dungeons, harder quests, etc.
 
there you go, perfect theme park mmo.	
----
			
Why do you "need a carrot"?
 
Again .. as I said in another thread ( heck more than one ) ... this is indicative of the times we live. :P	
----
			
Exlegen, all you mention about what you want from WoW will be in Draenor, except the action combat. GLHF back in WoW.
 
I'm gonna put you on a little secret: game like Farcry, when the story line is done (8hour AT BEST for most of the game out there), what do you do? stop playing.
When that game come out with a DLC, you pay that 15$ and play again. (For like 1-2hour, cuz DLC is just a way to get you cash).
 
Now take Wildstar. Level up a character from 1-50, then Attune, then Raid. Once you are done, you have spend what... 72hours MINIMUM? Then, they do a content drop. Add some dungeon, raid adventure gear or whatever. You play what... 10-15hour?
 
So all in all, give the game the time to pick up the beat, and you will have an excellent game, that give you plenty of possibility to invest your time, with a good flow of DLC.
 
Thank you, come again	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Whatever happened to pvping because you enjoyed the game play...
----
			But i'm an hipster, so having a carrot is too mainstream for me. you know	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Exlegen, all you mention about what you want from WoW will be in Draenor, except the action combat. GLHF back in WoW.
 
----
			
I'm just going to address the elephant in the room.
 
CARROTS ARE GROSS.	
----
			Game needs carrot on a stick mount flair.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
in W* extra points now come faster than Paula Dean in a butter factory
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm just going to address the elephant in the room.
 
CARROTS ARE GROSS.
----
			
*shrug* mmos are a different breed, to me. I don't get the way they do pvp, I didn't kill thousands in quake or ut for gear, but because killing people was fun. But even there you often have a carrot... Your kill stats. Can I go matches with minimum or zero death? Ultimate carrot. 
 
But mmos are not standalone rpgs. I played Dragon age because it was fun but also for story. I played again to see different outcomes and make different decisions. There are a few games out there that you feel the impetus to replay and it's rarely as simple as "it's fun".
 
Mmos are worse. They often require repetition of the same content at levels not seen elsewhere (other than shooters). I'm sorry that my 40th competition of a raid on 3day rotation is no longer about fun. It's probably not challenging by that point (assuming I don't spice it up putting for extra sweet torture) and it also has nothing new. Making the fighting more involved is nice but you'll still reach that point. 
 
So yes, we need carrots. Of a large variety and difficulty. It's how mmos keep you subbed. You guys should watch some of the talks from gaming experts on the systems mmos engage to keep you logging often and then keep you engaged as long as possible. Mmo developers largely know how to pull our strings and it doesn't work out well for anyone to ignore those factors. 
 
The people grinding and spawn camping for days in those old mmos did it for a carrot... That next level. That sweet xp. The west has stopped being satisfied with just that. But they had a carrot. Always been carrots.	
----
			Aurin like carrots^?^	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Aurin like carrots^?^
----
			
Carrots are yummy.... ^_^
 
+1 for the idea of a mount that has a stick and a carrot.
+1 for people fragging in quakes for the sake of fragging
+1 to Wildstar... cuz you know ;)	
----
			
This little Draken will only chase a carrot (shiny gear) for so long though. What she really wants is a nice nommy steak (content).
 
 
Question for a Dev: Is it possible (In the future) to add to the game something like Neverwinter's Foundry? Cause something like that would be so kick ass.	
----
			
But this little Draken has to slow her horses. New content? Calm the F down plz. 3 months in, still fixing bugs. It's not because 10% of the population run all the content in less than a week that you have to add content every week. Imagine how annoying it is for a new player to join a game, and even while he level slowly, enjoying is time, there is new and new and new stuff to do. He arrive at level 50 and don't know what the F to do.
 
Too much is as bad as... too less?	
----
			
IMO the main reason people need the carrot on a stick is because they are brain dead. What I mean is, with all the social media today and the different technologies making life easier, has created a society who expects more from anything than what is realistic because they can't think for themselves, especially your teens and 20 something's. I am happy that my life will be almost over by the time these idiots come into power. I mean here in the U.S. we have a lot of educated leadership right now who have no clue what they are doing. When this generation gets hold of the reigns and being from factually (look it up, it's true) the stupidest generation ever born in the US, life as we know it may cease to exist.
 
All this means is no imagination.
 
No imagination playing an MMO = you should not be playing an MMO.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
But I'm genuinely wondering what is our long term incentive now? Once everyone's rating is reset to 1200 with equalized gear, what is the point of doing arenas? There are currently no rewards for wanting to rank up and have a high rating.
 
We really need new incentives in place to keep players chasing something. You always need a carrot worth chasing, and we are going to need new ones to continue to play and keep player interest high. I already predict everyone's going to be facerolling through all PVE content (outside of 40 mans) in 1-2 months when most people have max amp/ability plus perfect rune slots from the rune changes. So question is, do the devs have a long term plan for us and the game's direction in regards to progression?
----
			
There still is a carrot, especially with the weapons. They make a (small) difference still.
 
It is just that chasing the carrot should be more fun now : P	
----
			
Cosmetic-only costume pieces would be a great carrot for me, because I'm a freaking roleplay nerd. I would fight tooth and nail for stuff like that.
Like my old, freaking HEAD GOGGLES that I used to have in beta...
 
If Carbine Studios said to me: "Yeah, you can have your old head goggles back... you just need to complete the entire Datascape raid dungeon in 30 minutes... ALL BY YOURSELF." You'd better believe I'd go for it.
 
...
 
Okay... well maybe I wouldn't go that far for cosmetic items, but you get the picture, right?	
----