Report 1603

Report #1603
Skillset: Skill: Paralysis
 Org: Serenguard Status: Completed Mar 2017
Furies' Decision:
Solution 3. Clumsiness will be buffed to handle the parry side of paralysis and
this will be removed from the aff. Blindness will cover the non-attacking aspect
of paralysis and it will be removed from the aff. Paralysis will retain its
movement prevention, including the addition of adding a flat +0.5s increase to
tumble, roll, and somersault.
Problem: Currently Paralysis on Dust balance is an incredibly powerful stop all
affliction, as every fighter has noted and commented on. This report aims to
keep some power in the affliction without making it the complete stop all that
it currently is.
[A:12 R: 0] Solution #1: Create a two stage Paralysis affliction. In stage 1
 paralysis will only stop:: Movement, Shield, Parry,
 and Channeled attacks. :: After 4 seconds, if stage 1
 is not cured it will move to Stage 2, which will be
 the current effect of Paralysis. Both stage 1 and
 stage 2 will still be cured by Dust.
[A:15 R: 1] Solution #2: Have paralysis cure concurrently with any other dust
 balance cured aff.
Player Comments:
---[Enyalida on 1/17 @ 22:26 writes]:
Progressing right to the second stage (full paralysis as it exists now) should
still be an option for some abilities. The most prevalent source of paralysis
spamming is via mantakaya venom (right?), so nerfing that and some other major
spam offenders to dealing pre-paralysis is a good step.
---[Shango on 2/1 @ 04:05 writes]:
Only supported if stage 1 and 2 STILL stop parry. Else you've just ruined
Warriors horribly, even aside from the small chance to stick paralysis with
venoms due to passive Combat shrugging.
---[Shedrin on 2/1 @ 04:55 writes]:
I think Solution 2 is a bit better than Solution 1, but I think either would
help the situation. If Solution 2, eating faeleaf for blindness should be
included. A possible Solution 3 that was dicussed on Envoys was to move
blindness to a different curative (steam or slush), which would help
specifically blind and paralysis stacking, but potentially create new issues.
---[Lerad on 2/2 @ 14:30 writes]:
Paralysis currently does not stop green/gedulah, and should not stop
green/gedulah in either stage 1 or stage 2. Swap that out for parry in solution
1, please. That'll make solution 1 the better solution in my opinion. It'll also
give it a proper niche when put alongside blind: blindness stops attacks,
paralysis doesn't for the first 4 seconds, but stops movement, which blindness
doesn't etc. It will see a drops in priority, which ties in with its role as a
viable movement hinder, too.
---[Lerad on 2/5 @ 05:59 writes]:
I've been thinking on it a bit. Perhaps we might want to make it so this first
stage paralysis not stop parry. As it is, paralysis is currently the
"workaround" for parry, making beast spit an almost must-have for warriors (and
monks) and the difference between having it (or not) a huge gap. I think this
might be an opportunity to move away from that. My suggestion is that we should
add in some ways of free-parry bypass to the Knighthood skillset that run on its
own timer (similar to beast balance), so that warriors can all get a free pass
at enemy parry the same way beast spit paralysis before an attack does now
(maintaining the status quo) - but freeing up that beast spit slot for something
else. And remove parry-stopping from first stage paralysis, so that warriors are
not required to use it every single time. This makes parry mean something as
well, so that even when you're in first-stage paralysis in a group fight, you're
not automatically stopped from parrying.
---[Shedrin on 2/5 @ 12:13 writes]:
That would affect more than just beast spit. Pierceplexus, notably. Blademaster
as well heavily relies on it with remiss, Stab, and my latest report relies on
paralysis stopping parry.
---[Lerad on 2/8 @ 02:04 writes]:
As Enyalida has noted, some abilities should continue to immediately give a 2nd
stage paralysis instead of having to go through the first stage. Pierceplexis
and remiss would probably be amongst those. Things like stab, that requires
poisons, would actually benefit from my suggestion: if we remove paralaysis
first stage from blocking parry, and compensate with a Knighthood ability that
bypasses parry at roughly the same rate as a beast spit, then things like stab
can be used to give other poisons than paralysis. What do you think?
---[Wobou on 2/8 @ 05:09 writes]:
I am more in favor of solution 2 because I think it's a lot simpler to reason
with. I agree with Enyalida that some abilities should jump straight on to full
paralysis in the case of sol. 1, but with that also adds a layer of complexity.
For example with solution 1 these are all questions: what abilities should cause
full paralysis and which should only cause the first stage? What actions are
stopped in stage 1 vs. stage 2? etc. etc. Solution 2 uses a mechanic that many
other affs in the game already use. If it's too much of a nerf we could extend
the delay of the cure of paralysis a tiny bit (from 1 to 1.25 or somesuch).
---[Shedrin on 2/8 @ 15:34 writes]:
I'm not sure what form the free parry bypass skill would take, but in general
I'm a bit skeptical of it. I think Warriors should work around parry with their
affliction combos and through threats on other body parts. Beast spit can
currently do this, but with rng-gated with shrugging and it's highly possible to
separate beast and Warrior (excepting Cavalier to an extent). I largely agree
with Wobou. Paralysis has existed as it has since inception, but (as far as I
know), hasn't been considered a major problem until the move to dust. Solution 1
provides extra issues we need to tackle on the specifics of paresis and what
abilities require what. Basically, I think Solution 2 is cleaner.
---[Aeldra on 2/12 @ 17:31 writes]:
Generally I feel that solution 1 would, while blocking less things, end up still
almost always progressing to where the current form of paralysis is problematic.
Given, you get a bit more of a timeframe to deal with things, but I still feel
we'd do better with solution 2, although I wonder if that will not completely
trash paralysis' usefulness?
---[Shango on 2/15 @ 22:50 writes]:
Be funny/interesting to make Paralysis an Ice cure instead. Not like Mantakaya
isn't already a mandatory poison for Warriors/Monks due to Parry issue as is,
and even double/triple applied you can only be paralyzed once, unlike the
'issue' people with improper curing had with old Dendroxin/Calcise breaking
multiple limbs in the same action with 1h's. (improper curing being complaints
of them spamming ice to head even with all four limbs broken, rather than fixing
their messed up priority issues)
---[Malarious on 2/20 @ 15:38 writes]:
There was no improper curing. You either had to cure the affs (and stack wounds
a lot faster) or cure wounds and not be able to move/attack. There was no
winning decision. I prefer solution 2, so it maintains its use but stops being
a super stack. Agree it should cure with faeleaf or anything on the balance,
not JUST actual dust.
---[Demartel on 2/20 @ 17:29 writes]:
In regards to Dendroxin/Calcise there was no improper curing and it has no
relevancy to this discussion.
---[Lerad on 3/7 @ 03:11 writes]:
Yeah, a poison giving an ice affliction is, generally speaking, probably not a
good idea. If it's a super low priority affliction that doesn't do much, maybe
it'll work. But paralysis? Uh uh. I like the idea of a two-stage paralysis, but
if the general consensus is to basically go back to making paralysis cured
outside of our cure balances without actually creating a new cure (by making it
cure simultaneously with another affliction), then that works as well, I guess.
---[Enyalida on 3/10 @ 19:33 writes]:
I like either solution, but I feel like solution 2 shouldn't be a totally free
cure with no downsides. In the old paradigm, curing paralysis was on focus
balance and could go alongside mainstream cures but DID hinder curing in that it
knocked you off focus balance for focus mind, which WAS balanced around. There
has to be some middle ground between paralysis and paralysis spam taking every
wafer balance constantly to deal with and paralysis not affecting curing at all.
---[Shuyin on 3/16 @ 01:49 writes]:
I don't mind any of these solutions but I share the idea that this might swing
paralysis the complete other way - now it's too powerful, but then it might
become too weak. What if dust balance increased to 2s if you cured paralysis
concurrently? Or what if the natural delay to eat -> cure increased by 1s if you
cure concurrently and not focus?
---[Demartel on 3/16 @ 01:52 writes]:
I agree with increasing dust balance as per Shuyin's comments
---[Shedrin on 3/16 @ 04:27 writes]:
I think increasing to 2s could be a good compromise if necessary.
---[Wobou on 3/16 @ 12:37 writes]:
I am still strongly in support of solution 2 and I don't think it'll swing
paralysis the other way. While focus body did stop you from using focus mind
before focus body was always the top prio so in the old game no one stayed
paralyzed for longer than a second or two unless they were fighting a TK, and
despite how easy it was to cure it was still worth using. That being said I like
Shuyin's idea of changing the delay based on concurrence. My suggestion would be
if you cure paralysis concurrently with another aff the paralysis delay is 1.5s
instead of 1s. If you only had paralysis and eat dust the delay stays at 1s. And
if you use a focus on paralysis (whether you have other affs or not) the delay
drops to 0.5s. All of these numbers can be adjusted of course.
---[Anelissa on 3/29 @ 15:44 writes]:
Of the two solutions presented, I prefer Sol1, but I would not be totally
opposed to Sol2 with the condition that it increases dust bal should it cure
Paralysis with any other dust aff. In terms of whether the double heal should be
restricted to just dust, I do believe it only fair to include other afflictions
that share the dust balance (I.E. Blindness). In terms of how long the delay is,
I am leaning more towards Shuyin's numbers. 1s if just curing paralysis. 1s if
just curing any other dust aff. 2s if curing any dust aff + paralysis. 1.5s if
curing just paralysis or any other dust aff alone for a regular focus. 3s if
curing concurrently with a regular focus. I wouldn't be opposed to Wobou's
suggestion of decreasing the cure time with a power focus to .5s-.75s for
paralysis IF you are powerfocusing paralysis specifically (which we can also
allow to randomly cure another dust aff as well.) If you power focus a different
dust aff, then it will remain at the standard 1s balance, but will also cure
paralysis as well. I feel this will give the victim a bit more strategic choice
on how important it is to get rid of the paralysis right now if powerfocusing,
while still not completely devaluing a decent dust stack from the attacker (i.e.
Is it better to powerfocus the paralysis off so I can move and attack, but I
might not get the blindness cure? Do I powerfocus the blindness and get the
paralysis off for sure, but now I'm short 1p. Or do I just take the balance hit
and eat the faeleaf to cure blindness and paralysis for sure, but now I'm locked
out of dust bal for 2s, If I'm out of power, do I take the chance to cure a
random dust aff+paralysis for 2s, or do I gaurentee the blindness+paralysis cure
and take the extra 1s balance penalty?)
---[Shedrin on 3/29 @ 19:12 writes]:
Not sure where you're getting those numbers, Anelissa, but dust balance is 1.5s
base right now. I'm kinda skeptical of changing the cure delay, either shorter
or longer. Shorter can ruin some (mostly warrior) tactics. Longer could make it
too strong.
---[Malarious on 3/30 @ 01:32 writes]:
I think this report is very needed given the stacking issues