128107-why-wildstar-failed-a-tough-love-opinion-from-a-fan-page-2

Page 1, Page 2
== Content ==
			
{| class="blockquote"
Dont mistake casuals for roleplayers and house-playing-sim gamers please! Casuals would like to raid too...as we see from wow:)
 
Problem is..WS failed to deliver for the casuals....casuals want almost the same as the hardcore...only..they dont need to be "realm first"...all other content they want to play:)
 
And the best game is the game that makes most money....you can talk day out and day in about WS is better than wow...it is not. It has aspects that Carbine did pretty good. The vet dungeon STL comes to mind. That dungeon is kick-ass fun. But other aspects is just sad....the messed up new basin thing e.g.....
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I would say that casual players who took months to get through leveling did it because they were focused on other activities like housing or roleplaying. If all you do when you're on is level, even slowly, it won't even take a month to do unless you RP walk between every quest hub. Now, if you're not playing the game very much period then yeah, it's gonna take a while, but for leveling to take months then you'd have to do something like an hour a week.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Dont mistake casuals for roleplayers and house-playing-sim gamers please! Casuals would like to raid too...as we see from wow :)
 
Problem is..WS failed to deliver for the casuals....casuals want almost the same as the hardcore...only..they dont need to be "realm first"...all other content they want to play:)
 
And the best game is the game that makes most money....you can talk day out and day in about WS is better than wow...it is not. It has aspects that Carbine did pretty good. The vet dungeon STL comes to mind. That dungeon is kick-ass fun. But other aspects is just sad....the messed up new basin thing e.g.....
 
Casuals spend along time leveling because it takes time...time might not be what casuals have...and NOT because they like it more than hardcores!...
 
Casuals want to get to end game too! Problem arise....if casuals cannot raid..what else is there to do in WS? except roleplay and playing the housing sims? And lackluster *cupcake* poor easy solo....sure they can run dungeons..but...how many dungeons do WS have?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well, we are talking about casual players here, and content aimed at casuals. I know plenty of people who just keep starting alts and enjoying themselves.
 
The leveling zones were clearly a large amount of effort, and clearly as well this content is aimed at casuals. So again, the point is that Carbine was not exclusively trying to create content for the hardcore.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Untrue. The 'optimal' levelling behavior (never turn in an underlevel mission) for Wildstar is counter-intuitive and often there are missing breadcrumbs (eg. Pell section in Malgrave). Group levelling has similar pitfalls.
 
Yes, a player with prior Wildstar experience can rip through the levelling process. New players fresh to the game will need to learn the paths.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Early levels are very easy, very casual. But after about level 20 the difficulty does ramp up rather suddenly. Players are expected to interupt, dodge telegraphs and use a fuller range of skills.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Actually think that yes, it is objectively and measurably better than WoW. Look at dungeons, look at questing, look at housing (bazinga!) Sure, there are some players who don't like the more challenging combat in dungeons or the fun of experiencing challenges or jumping puzzles while questing - but you cannot argue those are advances in gameplay beyond WoW.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well this again comes down to the definition of "casual", because there are casuals who are going to say they LIKE the harder content.
 
 
 
How casual are you? My wife took a few months to get leveled to 50, and she was subbed at launch (and hasn't stopped being subbed). I think that's more representative of what casual players are.
 
True, she didn't play every day. But that's kind of the point.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Dont mistake casuals for roleplayers and house-playing-sim gamers please! Casuals would like to raid too...as we see from wow:)
 
Problem is..WS failed to deliver for the casuals....casuals want almost the same as the hardcore...only..they dont need to be "realm first"...all other content they want to play:)
 
And the best game is the game that makes most money....you can talk day out and day in about WS is better than wow...it is not. It has aspects that Carbine did pretty good. The vet dungeon STL comes to mind. That dungeon is kick-ass fun. But other aspects is just sad....the messed up new basin thing e.g.....
 
Casuals spend along time leveling because it takes time...time might not be what casuals have...and NOT because they like it more than hardcores!...
 
Casuals want to get to end game too! Problem arise....if casuals cannot raid..what else is there to do in WS? except roleplay and playing the housing sims? And lackluster *cupcake* poor easy solo....sure they can run dungeons..but...how many dungeons do WS have?
----
			I would have thought most people would have realized by now that no one's going to agree on what constitutes casual and what is hardcore. The terms have become so muddied that everyone's definition is personal, and arguing about it is pointless.As for who Carbine was aiming at and whether they failed? They aimed at everyone. Which statements and media you saw and what was being promoted at a given moment may color your perceptions, but overall they've always tried to make a game that works for all types of gamers. There were gaps at launch, and they've slowly been filling them. Simple as that, and any other interpretation of the game's history is skewed by personal bias.	
----
			No, this is important. We need to go deeper.	
----
			
I can admit to being casual. I wrap myself in the warm blanket of knowing I have more important things to do with my life than play video games.
 
WildStar failed me at launch. Today's WildStar has not failed me, so much as I'm just kind of burnt out after two years on Nexus. That's on me, not the game.	
----
			
one can assume one thing with relative confidence....casuals make up the majority of players in a relatively successful mmo.... thats pretty much the deffinition of an mmo casual...and to cater to those players..you are also catering to the majority!...
 
an example being wow again...IF wow was as "hard" as the first raids....they would most likely NOT have 7 mill subs atm...Blizzard adapted to the crowd..but also tried to make content for the hardcore. The devs of wow has stated in a recent interview that creating mythic raiding content ONLY took 5% of they'r development time/effort/cost...the rest was spend on the LESS than hardcore crowd.
 
I think carabineros try to cater to the casuals yes..and yes...to some degree it is in the right direction..I'm just afraid its to little too late..but F2P might bring additional..more dramatic changes..like making attunement a pure solo quest etc...or making it not so terrible grinding and show stopper!
			
				
	Edited June 19, 2015 by styrm	
----
			
I'm sure people have mentioned it somewhere in the thread but I'll add my 2cents anyway.
 
{| class="blockquote"
 	Why Wildstar failed.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
IF wow was as "hard" as the first raids....
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
1. The game was built for the hardcore audience which is actually a tiny group of players who are usually demanding, obnoxious and noisy. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The first raids in this game aren't as hard as you are making out. I understand DS is pretty darn hard, but GA is pretty reasonable on the difficulty curve. And it's more FUN than most of the raids in WoW that I experienced.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The first raids in this game aren't as hard as you are making out. I understand DS is pretty darn hard, but GA is pretty reasonable on the difficulty curve. And it's more FUN than most of the raids in WoW that I experienced.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Stopped reading here, as this is flat out incorrect. There was marketing toward all types of players. If the marketing you saw was toward one audience that doesn't mean it all was.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Stopped reading here, as this is flat out incorrect. There was marketing toward all types of players. If the marketing you saw was toward one audience that doesn't mean it all was.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah, I'm gonna disagree with you.
 
The word HARCORE was repeated over and over in the early days and video promotions, and you dang well know it. I know you know it, because we were here together. ;)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
it does not realy matter what they said in the marketing....it WAS a hardcore game at launch...and that prob scared some ppl away...I know it scared me away..the though of the looming attunement stopped me dead in my track at level 44 warrior last time. Now it stopped me at 4/13 attuned as a level 50 SS.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Never said they didn't say it. I said they were also saying they had a lot for other types of gamers. What people heard and listened to is on them.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I have not tried raid in WS true....due to attunement...and thats its only lately raids are pugged....but they are pugged by former raiders i presume!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Okay, so I remember the Dev Speak video for raids (HARDCORE), adventures (HARDCORE) and warplots (HARDCORE).
 
They had two non-harcore Dev Speak, and that was over Customization and the very early one on Housing. While those things are cool, they aren't really "content" in the traditional sense. All of the CONTENT videos very much pushed the HARDCORE in our faces.
 
Say what you want, but you know as well as I do who this game was "supposed" be catering to since the very earliest days. You remember every suggestion I made to re-tune things being shot down and how many of you guys told me, over and over, this wasn't the game for players like me? I certainly remember it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I remember it too. Maybe I joined the CBT too late (December 2013) but the echo chamber was in full swing then. It was either "make the game more #hardcore, not easier" or "that's not how the devs planned things, so take a seat, shut up, and let the masters teach you how to have fun."
 
I suggested that gamers weren't as young now as they were back in the day (shocking how that happens) and had more responsibilities than they used to, and because of this they'd have trouble getting anything meaningful from their game time if everything took extra long or had extra RNG in it. The responses were... unsupportive. With the epic failure of the #hardcore model it's become a truism now that people just don't have the kind of time for unlimited gaming as they used to. While I do love being right, I'd rather the game had just launched in the state it's in today.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Stopped reading here, as this is flat out incorrect. There was marketing toward all types of players. If the marketing you saw was toward one audience that doesn't mean it all was.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I agree GA is not puggable by new players. But puggable isn't the standard- you were talking about WoW's raids and raids were NOT puggable by new players at its peak.
 
 
Actually, I like WoW quite a bit. I had blast back when I played and I have fond memories of the raids. Karahzan and Ulduar were a blast. And what I'm telling you is, videos don't do GA justice- the raids are better (from what I experienced in WoW, I haven't done anything recent). It is FUN- as in really, really fun. More fun than Kara, and that (in my book) is saying a LOT.
 
Now if aesthetics are your judgement by which a raid is "fun" or not, then that's going to be a matter of taste. I know that GA doesn't beat out Karahzan in the "atmosphere" criteria. But in terms of having encounters that you can do over and over again and look forward to it every single week- it beats out even that zone. It's THAT good.
 
I don't know how many times I've killed X-89 thus far, and I've still not gotten to the point that I find the fight boring or uninteresting. Part of that may be because we're always finding new was to screw ourselves over and recover- haha- but that's part of the beauty of it!
 
The retention rate of people I've seen zone into GA and get absolutely hooked on raids in WS is high. VERY high. There have been more than a few people in my guild who were like "meh, I can't make it every week, but I'll come along when you have a slot" who have switched to "I want a full time spot" after their first time in GA. In fact, as a raid leader trying to fill spots, this is my evil plan now. I tell people they don't have to commit, they can just tag along. And then after they do it once, 90% of the players beg borrow and steal to be able to make time for the raid.
 
I cannot stress it enough- GA is probably WS's best selling point. The more people they can get into experience it without nerfing, the better. If that means removing some attunment (like WBs), I'm fine with that. If it means putting in the ability to do it in smaller chunks, I'm all for it. But it's the content that everyone who has ever thought about raiding should give a shot before denouncing it as "too hardcore".
 
I don't care about "hardcore" or "causal". I care a bout fun, and GA has it in spades.
 
/rant
----
			
I've only played Wildstar for 7 weeks. Even though I enjoyed my little spellslinger I finally hit breaking point this week why?
Jumping to actually to complete quests and not just for fun/achievements etc.
Mob density if I hear that drum roll again i'll go ape!
Carbine not knowing who theyre aiming for....western players the south Asian market
Dying at bosses at Gauntlet/drusera encounters rezzing and being thrown right back into combat with no chance of a heal beforehand.
Population way to small....barely met anyone during my time in each zone.
Possiblity of running dungeons near nigh on impossible
Frantic game play due to quick respawns, knowing that with each kill a race against time will ensue due to a challenge starting.
Buying the collectors edition for the mount only to find I can't I can't use it to 25 half way through my adventure even though I can claim it at level 3 and take up room in my ridiculously small inventory....only to find I can RENT a mount for the day....you serious??
 
I could go on and on.....but think I could just sum it all up in one word....messy
			
				
	Edited June 20, 2015 by Pazazz	
----
			Pazazz I'm not even going to address how wrong you are on some of your points or what you are even saying. One thing though I started leveling a new character today and got the hoverboard out of my account inventory, clicked it and was able to use it right away at level 3.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Stopped reading here, as this is flat out incorrect. There was marketing toward all types of players. If the marketing you saw was toward one audience that doesn't mean it all was.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
"Our elder games are not for wimps.
Anyone can level up, but real skilled players might do it more efficiently. They can do combat really well and take advantage of extra experience bonuses. But in the elder game it is not about the casual player, it is about the hardcore guys who really want a challenge." -Jeremy Gaffney  (emphasis mine)
http://www.mmo-game.eu/wildstar-q-and-a-session-with-jeremy-gaffney/#raid
 
Lemurian, I don't see how you can say something like that when even Gaffney was telling everyone the end game is designed around the hardcore players.
----
			
I just joined since the humble bundle, so i'm going to throw a random one in, an say its because one cant make an Aurin engineer. I can't have the character i want. It took just under an hour to realize i was never going to get into anything dominion.. Aurins are the best exile race by far. So sad.
 
...
 
Also, from an outsiders perspective, are you sure it failed? Everyone knew the other mmo that came out around that time with a sub, was nothing more than a cashgrab to recover development costs before going to non sub, the 2014 business model... If i was interested in Wildstar i would have thought the same. Subs had failed so many times since wow pretty much everyone thought eso and wildstar were being rather strange.. so strange that it could only have been an new game/hype supported cashgrab (and how could you blame them, there're businesses after all).
 
Failed == expected and planned.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Buying the collectors edition for the mount only to find I can't I can't use it to 25 half way through my adventure even though I can claim it at level 3 and take up room in my ridiculously small inventory....only to find I can RENT a mount for the day....you serious??
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well, that is a super super old interview (one of the oldest) and had information about racial things like... it's harder for an Aurin to do things a Granok could do. That didn't really happen.
 
But by and large, Jeremy and everyone had always always talked about elder game for all play styles being available. They were just unable to delver on that at launch, which is why they've added things like vet ship hands and contracts since then. They are still working on it...
----
			There's PVP, adventures, dungeons, shiphands, all those are still available and relevant at elder game. You don't need to raid to enjoy elder game. I don't raid and I spend most of my time enjoying playing elder game on my 50 main.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I just joined since the humble bundle, so i'm going to throw a random one in, an say its because one cant make an Aurin engineer. I can't have the character i want. It took just under an hour to realize i was never going to get into anything dominion.. Aurins are the best exile race by far. So sad.
 
...
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
There's PVP, adventures, dungeons, shiphands, all those are still available and relevant at elder game. You don't need to raid to enjoy elder game. I don't raid and I spend most of my time enjoying playing elder game on my 50 main.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The rental mount is 24 hours of game play time, not real world time, and it's what, 50 silver? That will last you until level 50. unless it takes more than 24 hours of playing to hit cap.
 
And yeah you can use the mounts at level 3. Source: I did it, and am doing it on my Esper alt that I'm currently leveling and isn't level 25 yet.
----
			
Pazazz If you are on Entity you can find a lot of guilds that are learning/teaching guilds.
 
Self promotion aside, I've been helping out new people/old returners for weeks not on Entity.
 
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/forum/292-guild-recruitment/
 
One thing I tell people before buying the game, this is a social learning game. You got to get along with people, don't be afraid to ask questions, and if the person doesn't know the answer they probably know someone  who does.	
----
			Unfortunately I'm confined to EU servers....always did prefer American servers, even after 10 years I still think back to Daoc lancelot server :) Your right on about it being a social learning game....probably social learning and hardcore gets mixed up nowadays.	
----
			
Social is hardcore now.. imagine if people have to not touch there phones for an hour and listen to someone talk..THE HORROR..
 
I'm an evil dog trainer.. I take phones away from adults.. oh yes.. oh yes.. 
 
I'm not informed with Jabbit information but maybe we can summon Olivar here >.>	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Pazazz I'm not even going to address how wrong you are on some of your points or what you are even saying. One thing though I started leveling a new character today and got the hoverboard out of my account inventory, clicked it and was able to use it right away at level 3.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The update to be able to use mounts that early was in the last month. 
If you don't even know that, how was he to know that now mounts are usable at 3? I'm pretty sure he was 25 before June and therefore this change came too late for him.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The way he worded it made it seem otherwise. He said he can't use it until level 25 but was able to claim it at level 3.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Been that long huh? You can claim the items in the account inventory as soon as you like. He found out about mounts and was off the boat at 3. He clicked and got the items and then found he couldn't use them. 
It was that was until the recent update. I never had the issue because I was a beta player and knew not to clog up my inventory before 25. I could clog up my inventory with outfits too as early as being off the boat, I just knew better. 
I love how people got on his case when he said he's been playing for 7 weeks... About a change that just recently happened a couple of weeks back. Without even having a clue when it was implemented. 
Dude, you don't even read the update notes and yet are quick to scold a new player for not knowing about this new change?! 
Wow. Harsh community here. 
---
Good on WildStar for making that nice change. Proves how it was actually an appreciated feature when a player us so irked by its absence.
----
			Hi all thanks for replies/support. When I first started playing I'm pretty sure but may be wrong I think I could claim the hover board at level 7 but unable to use it until 25 so didn't look at it again as I didn't want to take up limited inventory space. I was on holiday (vacation for my American friends :) the first week in June so missed out on some game time and on return noticed that claim requirements had dropped to level 3. I didn't realise that I could use the board now so that's my fault I guess. Wildstar sits along side swtor on my hard drive. Even though wildstar frustrates the hell out of me I still log onto this game rather than swtor. I guess the learning curve is too steep for me and with a small population there's no one along the way to learn the game with	
----
			
I would say another problem is the game's too Western-oriented, lacking the support of global market.
 
As a player in Hong Kong, no one, absolutely no one, who are MMORPGs lovers, talk about Wildstar.
 
None advertisements here in Asia is kinda acceptable, but at least do pair up with some Asia retailers. When people here on the Eastern side of the world walked through shops looking for new games to play, let them notice Wildstar. People just don't even know the game exist...	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I would say another problem is the game's too Western-oriented, lacking the support of global market.
 
As a player in Hong Kong, no one, absolutely no one, who are MMORPGs lovers, talk about Wildstar.
 
None advertisements here in Asia is kinda acceptable, but at least do pair up with some Asia retailers. When people here on the Eastern side of the world walked through shops looking for new games to play, let them notice Wildstar. People just don't even know the game exist...
----
			
One more day unthil my subscription lapse....
 
Being back at wow and having a great time I remember now why WOW is soo fun.  Unlike in WS..in wow there is soo much to fiddle with between raids..garry, pvp, hc dungeons for usefull currency and transmogs...and then you have the raids themselves. Everyone can dab into them..its fun..and not very taxing on your twitch skills. TBO I die more in WOW than I did in WS (in hard content...hc dungeons and raids)..but I die to game mechanics that I just did not practice enough. In WS I died because fingers got cramp after dodgeing red telegraphs for the 1000th time the last 5 mins in addition to the non-stop mandatory interupting. Ppl say that wow raid are unfun etc..well tbo..the boss mechanics in WOW WOD is amazing fun and varied...great variety on things you need to be aware of..and many moving parts and ALSO----> great variaty in the background scenery (unlike WS tech theme raid look). And one thing stands out in wow raids..comparred to WS vet dungeons. Mechanics dont one shoot you...they hurt you bad, but you have time to react and time to learn how to avoid those mechanics. THIS is IMPORTANT!!! (i'm talking about normal/HC raiding..mythic is prob harder but 99% of playerbase never wants too or dont have the skills to see that difficulty...)
 
What would I have taken with me from WS into wow:
 
double tap to dodge (you still need to get out of bad things in wow ..and dodgeging would have been fun)
Sprint....this would also help with getting out of bad..
What I would hope WOW would NEVER take from WS:
 
those blasted red telegraphs that even level 1 rats have....its just tooooo muuch!
the mandatory non-stop interupt train that all group members must partake in...	
----
			
After playing Wow for just under 10 years....I fell on the floor lmao reading that post
 
Should watch this from a big wow fan  https://youtu.be/Nc5Q2YVwsPE
			
				
	Edited June 22, 2015 by ministabber	
----
			
From my point of view, WS failed because the game was missing basic features.
 
I tried the game over a year ago and I quit it right away because it was nowhere near enjoyable. I was constantly fighting the camera, no adjustment for look speed (I'm not talking about mouse speed, cause if I would set that to a different value then I wouldn't be able to move the cursor on the UI).
 
Then there was the holding of right mouse button. Oh my God... no words. Action MMO and you have to hold right button for hours and hours. Every other non-tab target MMO I played had a camera lock and you could use left/right clicks for skills. Also,the FoV was set very low by default and couldn't change it - extreme immersion breaker for me. Then, on top of missing options, the ones that you actually had wouldn't save !
 
I'm returning now, since I heard they fixed many of the issues and I see they actually did. I still don't understand why they stick to the stupid "hold right click" to look around, since all the skills go towards the middle of the screen, it's just logical you would want it held all the time (see TERA, BnS, Neverwinter, DragonNest, Vindictus, C9 etc.). Anyway, I found an addon for that so it's not that big of a deal. Still, an option from the devs would be much better, cause the addon feels clunky.
 
I think this is the last time I give WS a chance. I really hope I won't have technical issues anymore. It could be the best game in the world, but if I'm not able to control my character the way I want it's a fail from the start. I'll see how far I'll get now before frustration kicks in (although I really hope that won't happen).	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
From my point of view, WS failed because the game was missing basic features.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
While I agree with most of your post I think housing is this games hottest selling point if it can reach the right demographic especially if they expand and take it to the next level as well as getting rid of some of the lingering bugs that still plague the feature. Look at the success of minecraft sand box game play is a hot item right now. But the raids are still a good selling point for this game...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
One more day unthil my subscription lapse....
 
Being back at wow and having a great time I remember now why WOW is soo fun.  Unlike in WS..in wow there is soo much to fiddle with between raids..garry, pvp, hc dungeons for usefull currency and transmogs...and then you have the raids themselves. Everyone can dab into them..its fun..and not very taxing on your twitch skills. TBO I die more in WOW than I did in WS (in hard content...hc dungeons and raids)..but I die to game mechanics that I just did not practice enough. In WS I died because fingers got cramp after dodgeing red telegraphs for the 1000th time the last 5 mins in addition to the non-stop mandatory interupting. Ppl say that wow raid are unfun etc..well tbo..the boss mechanics in WOW WOD is amazing fun and varied...great variety on things you need to be aware of..and many moving parts and ALSO----> great variaty in the background scenery (unlike WS tech theme raid look). And one thing stands out in wow raids..comparred to WS vet dungeons. Mechanics dont one shoot you...they hurt you bad, but you have time to react and time to learn how to avoid those mechanics. THIS is IMPORTANT!!! (i'm talking about normal/HC raiding..mythic is prob harder but 99% of playerbase never wants too or dont have the skills to see that difficulty...)
 
What would I have taken with me from WS into wow:
 
double tap to dodge (you still need to get out of bad things in wow ..and dodgeging would have been fun)
Sprint....this would also help with getting out of bad..
What I would hope WOW would NEVER take from WS:
 
those blasted red telegraphs that even level 1 rats have....its just tooooo muuch!
the mandatory non-stop interupt train that all group members must partake in...
 
----
			Really if I have to nail down any one thing as to why Wildstar failed as a Pay to Play game, it's slow reaction time and not listening. Essentially telling players they knew better as to what was fun. This was the number one thing that drove people away. Had they listened and reacted faster, or made announcements faster (and for the love of pete tested things more some of those early patches were a mess.)Now I'm not talking about just pushing content out faster, I'm talking about saying "okay we see people aren't into this we're going to fix it here's how." and then give a rough timeline. Really if they had been better with these and more proactive with making changes based on feedback, I think this game would have succeeded as a Pay to Play game.
			
				
	Edited June 22, 2015 by Scott Of Awesome	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Really if I have to nail down any one thing as to why Wildstar failed as a Pay to Play game, it's slow reaction time and not listening. Essentially telling players they knew better as to what was fun. This was the number one thing that drove people away. Had they listened and reacted faster, or made announcements faster (and for the love of pete tested things more some of those early patches were a mess.)
 
Now I'm not talking about just pushing content out faster, I'm talking about saying "okay we see people aren't into this we're going to fix it here's how." and then give a rough timeline. Really if they had been better with these and more proactive with making changes based on feedback, I think this game would have succeeded as a Pay to Play game.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I was gonna say "I agree but you forgot about unannounced game breaking patches" but I see that you tossed that in there too haha.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Huh? What missing feature? WildStar was easily the most feature-rich MMO to launch since WoW (which was much more bare bones than WildStar at launch).
 
Seriously curious... what could you possibly call "missing"?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Camera speed, FoV, right click lock (still missing, although there's an addon for it), video options were very limited and then some settings wouldn't save. As far as I see, that problem is still there even now for double-tap dodge and telegraph settings (and I didn't check for other settings).
There were many more basic missing stuff, but I can't remember them since it was more than 1 year ago when I last played the game.
 
Either way, the lack of camera speed setting alone was enough to put me off, since I'm used to playing with a very low turning speed and lowering the overall sensitivity meant I couldn't move the mouse properly in cursor mode.
----
			Why are we still keeping this alive? Stop making negative-press threads for the game and stop keeping them alive so that new people can see them.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Why are we still keeping this alive? Stop making negative-press threads for the game and stop keeping them alive so that new people can see them.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 Instead of holding mouse right click, it locks so you don't have to hold it.
See the games I referenced earlier, they all have camera lock (since they use mouse buttons for skills, it's obviously not right click, but other button - like ALT) and if you want to use the UI, you press that button to "unlock" it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Like "smart camera"? Where you turn it off so the camera doesn't auto center when you move if you aren't looking in front of you?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
More like letting you move the mouse and rotate the camera and your character without holding down the right mouse button.
----
			
It's like playing a shooter, except if you want to access your UI you press a button to activate it.
 
I don't know how to explain properly, but you can see it well here: https://youtu.be/BKPo2J5Egzc?t=622
The guy is shooting a mob, no cursor, then ~10 sec later he activates it.
 
In WS you need to hold it, unless you have an addon that does it for you. It feels more natural to play like that, maybe because I'm just too used to shooters.
 
P.S. Sorry if I went off-topic, but this would be a very welcome feature to have by default.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It's like playing a shooter, except if you want to access your UI you press a button to activate it.
 
I don't know how to explain properly, but you can see it well here: https://youtu.be/BKPo2J5Egzc?t=622
The guy is shooting a mob, no cursor, then ~10 sec later he activates it.
 
In WS you need to hold it, unless you have an addon that does it for you. It feels more natural to play like that, maybe because I'm just too used to shooters.
 
P.S. Sorry if I went off-topic, but this would be a very welcome feature to have by default.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Never said they didn't say it. I said they were also saying they had a lot for other types of gamers. What people heard and listened to is on them.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The problem, I suspect, is that they thought casuals loved dailies.  They seemed really shocked at all the hate dailies got.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The problem, I suspect, is that they thought casuals loved dailies. They seemed really shocked at all the hate dailies got.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Shocked! Pretty sure it had something to do with the attitude that limited game time equated to being dumb and bad at the game.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Indeed. making a game casual friendly doesn't need to mean dumbing the game down.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Indeed. making a game casual friendly doesn't need to mean dumbing the game down. It's about making the game accessible. Making it so that all players can dip in and find something fun and rewarding to do, even if they have a limited amount of time or do not wish to commit to organised group content (i.e. raiding) for whatever reason.
 
You can't build your game around hardcore time sinks and mechanics and then push everyone else to the margins telling them they need to be happy with dailies and messing around with their housing or else find another game to play.
 
Veteran Shiphands are the perfect example of how to do this right. They're fun, bite-sized, can be done solo or grouped, can be challenging if you want to achieve Gold and rewards are decent. There needs to be more content like this.
 
Contracts I'm on the fence about. I quite enjoy them, but they sail dangerously close to just being another form of dailies. Nevertheless, it's welcome content.
 
Dailies have their place, they're a way for players to earn some extra rewards. But they should never be the main focus as they grow tedious very quickly for a lot of players.
 
Personally I'd like to see some more persistent world PVE and PvP content. Long term battles that rage over a period of days that you can dip into, participate and perhaps influence things for as much time as you can spare, with your contribution being noted and rewarded. Sort of like World Events that persist across a longer time period. The problem with current world and zone events is that they either reset too quickly (and so are meaningless) or too slowly (so it's hard to arrive when they are going on).
----
			
You know, I've seen elder gem cap as a way to extend the life of the game. At this point, however, it's more of an artificial barrier to player success.
 
Honestly it makes WAY TOO MUCH sense to drop the elder gem cap and just maybe reduce the gains. Think about this - it effectively eliminates the need to grind reps and PvP for those precious AMP and ability points that VASTLY hinder character progression both on new players and alts.	
----
			
Removing the elder gem cap means I make less gold from Vet Dungeons :(
 
These days, every week I'm all about pushing through until I hit the EG cap so I can actually get more gold from my in game activities.	
----
			The answer to your gold dilemma: add a gold bag reward from the elder gem vendor, exactly equivalent to the current rate but you just have to buy it. Can do it at 50, 100 and 200 elder gem intervals. At 200 it's super easy to spend it all.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The answer to your gold dilemma: add a gold bag reward from the elder gem vendor, exactly equivalent to the current rate but you just have to buy it. Can do it at 50, 100 and 200 elder gem intervals. At 200 it's super easy to spend it all.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Such a simple and elegant solution, this would keep everyone happy. Have to wonder why when a solution is this simple it isn't already implemented. 
----
			I'd have to agree with the OP, that it was almost entirely timing that put WS in the position it's in now. Not only did it have to contend with what turned out to be a terrible WoW expansion, it also went up against Elder Scrolls Online, the re-launch of Final Fantasy XIV, and Archeage. Aside from a few bugs and optimization issues, Wildstar is/was a great game that would've done ten times better had it just waited a year and put some more effort into advertising. I love this game dearly, but I've never seen a Free to Play game maintain a good community or turn into a money grab. I'm certainly going to stick around to see what happens since I've invested so much into Wildstar. But, I've learned the hard way to not hold my breath in this day of cash shops, pay to win, and micro-transactions. 	
----