123101-remove-faction-barrier

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Allow dominion and exiles to communicate, group, join guilds and raid together
 
battlegrounds would have a mix of doms and exiles in each group.
 
Pvp server would still allow you to kill opposing faction members that are not in your group, guild, raid, BG group.
 
Faction Npcs/guards would remain hostile to opposing faction players. 
 
The faction imbalance would be removed. The pool of players in queue would be greatly improved. Bgs would be more balanced. The game would be a lot more fun	
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To quote what one of the developers said long time ago:
 
"But the Factions Must Mean Something!"
 
Sarcasm aside,I agree that the removal of certain gameplay limitations imposed over characters of different factions would be a good thing. Just need a lore reason for that to happen. And we have it already. Drusera. Or the Circle of Galactic Scientists. Or any other neutral faction. Just have the characters join it to fight off the Big Bad (the Strain/Entity) and there you have it: lore friendly cross faction interaction.	
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			Is the imbalance really that large?  Does it really impact that much?  You're going to be able to queue against teams of your own faction soon, is that not enough?  You're acting like there are no dominion players or something.	
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Ugh...it doesn't matter how many times someone suggests this, it doesn't make it sound any less awful. Especially when you would have to butcher the current story to make it fit. Because the Dominion's done too much to the Exiles to wrap it up in a simple "Oops! My bad!" conclusion. Which would have to happen in order to align the Exiles with them in the near future. Which is being suggested and is just shotty writing. Drusera is just a "Temporary creating an alliance for the greater good" plot device, btw.
 
Knowing you Evade, you made this thread only because you're currently mad that PvP queues are sucking tonight.	
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Gameplay-story segregation means it's extremely easy to justify dropping the faction barrier for instanced content. Though even then it's not hard to come up with justification. "There's a big bad that's gonna kill us both. We'll team up temporarily to kill it." Okay, done.
 
This seriously needs to happen. @.@	
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Gameplay-story segregation means it's extremely easy to justify dropping the faction barrier for instanced content. Though even then it's not hard to come up with justification. "There's a big bad that's gonna kill us both. We'll team up temporarily to kill it." Okay, done.
 
This seriously needs to happen. @.@
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I've been saying for months now
 
The factions need to come down.
If this game is to survive under it's niche design, it must transform itself into a niche game product.
The funny thing about niche products is that they work even if they no longer stay niche.
 
LoL is an example of this.
 
What was one hell of a niche market before LoL came around? The moba scene.
What happened after LoL became popular? Still works, still designed for a niche.
 
WildStar needs to revamp everything it can to work with a niche player base, and if doing so makes it popular, so much the better.
 
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Ugh, that shit is such a cop out. If there's one thing I hate more than anything it's when developers take two factions that hate each other to death and make them 'team up' for the greater good.
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Gameplay >>>>> lore/story
 
Also... Everquest, the grandfather of MMOs, had three very distinct factions yet the game left it to the players to decide individually who they would group with. Towns and cities were another matter. I don't see why wildstar can't be the same way	
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I'm sorry Evade, but I really do not see the benefit of removing this from game.
The entire game is build around 2 opposing factions, you can see this in almost any quest, zone or lore article. It's always the Dominion against the Exiles. When you take this away, you take away the majority of the what makes up Wildstar.
 
I can understand that you want to get PvP back on track, but if I do not have an "enemy" in the game where I can go to town with, then PvP is not interesting for me.
The reason why I enter battlegrounds for example is really to get rid of some frustration and take down some Aurin. Whether I win or lose is irrelevant to me at that point, but I have something ingame where I can direct my attention on, and not just some generic NPC mob.
 
I believe that they should fix the other issues with PvP first and actually get more people to play in PvP.
Just removing the factions and not solving the other problems is really not going to be a good incentive for people to do more PvP.
Take a look at WoW, they still have the whole faction thing, even when both are working together against a common enemy. Only the latest expansion seems to have done away with this a bit more.
 
Final Fantasy then again takes a completely different approach to the PvP, whereas everyone is in the same faction and fights for their company.
But I've not heard anything outside that about the PvP in Final Fantasy, no dedicated companies or teams running for PvP on the server I play. Not saying it ain't happening, it just doesn't feel like a big thing to me there.
 
So I'd rather have the factions remain as is, and Carbine actually stepping up the fixed for PvP, like fixing the gear, rating, group finder and adding more daily rewards to get people to do PvP.	
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I'm sorry Evade, but I really do not see the benefit of removing this from game.
The entire game is build around 2 opposing factions, you can see this in almost any quest, zone or lore article. It's always the Dominion against the Exiles. When you take this away, you take away the majority of the what makes up Wildstar.
 
I can understand that you want to get PvP back on track, but if I do not have an "enemy" in the game where I can go to town with, then PvP is not interesting for me.
The reason why I enter battlegrounds for example is really to get rid of some frustration and take down some Aurin. Whether I win or lose is irrelevant to me at that point, but I have something ingame where I can direct my attention on, and not just some generic NPC mob.
 
I believe that they should fix the other issues with PvP first and actually get more people to play in PvP.
Just removing the factions and not solving the other problems is really not going to be a good incentive for people to do more PvP.
Take a look at WoW, they still have the whole faction thing, even when both are working together against a common enemy. Only the latest expansion seems to have done away with this a bit more.
 
Final Fantasy then again takes a completely different approach to the PvP, whereas everyone is in the same faction and fights for their company.
But I've not heard anything outside that about the PvP in Final Fantasy, no dedicated companies or teams running for PvP on the server I play. Not saying it ain't happening, it just doesn't feel like a big thing to me there.
 
So I'd rather have the factions remain as is, and Carbine actually stepping up the fixed for PvP, like fixing the gear, rating, group finder and adding more daily rewards to get people to do PvP.
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The only time factions are relevant to pvp is in openworld. A type of pvp that seems pretty useless as far as progression. In battlegrounds it doesn't matter at all if the person on the other team is a granok or a chua, they are on the other team. If we get same faction pvp, factions will become even less relevant, and it would probably make the queues pop more if it just arbitrarily took X players on team A and X players for team B regardless of faction. It breaks the lore, but then so does the same faction pvp. 
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I'm not sure whether this will make the queue pop more. You're going from the point that one side has more/only people playing compared to the other side, which I don't think is true. I think neither side has many people playing at the moment, and if this is true, then same faction battlegrounds will not solve this issue. 
It will allow those few who do PvP to play, but it does not solve the problem. I'd rather have Carbine fix the problem then introduce a patch-work solution that covers up the problem.
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The core problem is lack of population. If there is an easy fix I would like to hear it, until then we have to work on ideas the keep the people we have happy. Right now the pvp queues are not poping. 
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Are we talking practise battlegrounds, rated battlegrounds or arena teams? Because I have people active in PvP, and they do have queue's popping for them. Just so we're on the same page.
And yes we have a population problem, but I'd still like a decent, long lasting fix. Not an easy or patch-work one.
Short term solutions never pan out properly.
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Yes factions hate each other. And even thou in many quests you are basically soldier. You are still foremost adventurer. There is no reason why your character should hate every single member of opposite faction (even more so when you are the one chosen by Genesis Prime and know that opposite faction is not your biggest enemy). I can totally see Granok and Draken team up and kill stuff together and then have BBQ and drink some beers :) . Sure most of them would still hate each other but those two? Buds  :D
 
 
Most of my fellow mordesh are not interested in primitive and reckless Chua technology. But MINE mordesh would not be opposed to working with Chua on something.
 
Just my 2 cents  ;) .
 
Just let us speak with opposite faction and group up to kill tough monsters (clear dungs)....for start. 	
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I'd personally love to see factions dropped. I've exile friends who would jump at the chance of joining my guild and playing with us, but won't reroll cause it's a huge investment and they're attached to their exile characters.
 
As for the developer saying these factions exist for a reason the can do the hard work and come up with a new lore based story on why they'd work together without the cop-out of well they're fighting a bigger baddie together cause that's been done before.	
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I'm not sure whether this will make the queue pop more. You're going from the point that one side has more/only people playing compared to the other side, which I don't think is true. I think neither side has many people playing at the moment, and if this is true, then same faction battlegrounds will not solve this issue. 
It will allow those few who do PvP to play, but it does not solve the problem. I'd rather have Carbine fix the problem then introduce a patch-work solution that covers up the problem.
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I'd personally love to see factions dropped. I've exile friends who would jump at the chance of joining my guild and playing with us, but won't reroll cause it's a huge investment and they're attached to their exile characters.
 
As for the developer saying these factions exist for a reason the can do the hard work and come up with a new lore based story on why they'd work together without the cop-out of well they're fighting a bigger baddie together cause that's been done before.
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			I like factions and wouldn't want to see them scrapped, but I also understand that the games population is so small that in time we might see something done about it.	
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The person you are quoting is promoting mixed factions not same faction BGs.
 
You are right, same faction BGs wont help if the problem is population, however mixed factions would.
 
Assume 15 Exiles queueing and 5 Dominion queuing:
Current Patch: No BG pop.
Same Faction: No BG pop.
Mixed Factions: 2 BGs pop.
 
Thats 0 games vs 2 games... Mixed factions is significantly better.
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I like factions and wouldn't want to see them scrapped, but I also understand that the games population is so small that in time we might see something done about it.
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Don't you think it would be a better idea for them to address that?, instead of bastardising the lore and wasting development resources by allowing the two factions the play together, esentially completely trivialising the entire point of the two faction system.
 
Additionally making a terrible move like that would pretty much be a sign of defeat, implying the team has so little confidence that new people will come to their game that they're removing any thing that might segregate the tiny population.
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Then I misunderstood what was written sorry. Casting lore aside, this could be a temporary solution until PvP is brought to what it's supposed to be.
Lorewise, it would require some neutral faction or something to fight for. But I'll leave that to pappy to decide.
 
Well that's what PvP and factions brings with you, the added challenge of still trying to coordinate and not trying to kill each other.
And you've shown there that you can fight against a common foe while keeping the factions, it's just harder.
I understand the point that you also want to play together, but you also need to picture everything inside the game's world as well.
Even when they're the enemy, you still have people that simpathize or are neutral in it all, which is what you were at that point.
 
 
 
I'm in the same boat. I like to have factions as well, but it's clear to everyone that we do need to solve the problem of people not doing PvP.
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I think protostar are a good neutral faction that could bring both sides together in battlegrounds....For Money.
 
 
You call it a challenge, as the lone Dominion player in that event I call it an unwanted headache. 
 
 
Factions are good at the start and bring a lot of story. It kind of becomes less useful when we are all doing the same quests. At the end with Drusera, factions are clunky and artificial. Removal of factions at the beginning would be forced and feel wrong, but at the endgame the opposite seems true. I never want to see Aurin in Illium, or Draken in Thayd, but on housing plots, in warplot groups, dungeons, raids, open world group content ect. I think that the factions are doing more harm than good.  
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Oh I also want to point out that there's already a cross faction established faction in game called CoGS.
Where do you find these? They're all around the SIMCores.
 
This faction has aurin, chua, Mechari, Humans/Cassians in it. There's yet another lore reason that could be built upon.
 
 
 
 
So tell me exactly why a Chua and an Aurin are in the same faction...?
Aren't they crazy sworn enemies for life?
Or perhaps since this is a new planet, new science new places that we can put our differences aside and stop acting like witless warminded uncivilized people and use diplomacy and find a way to coexist in harmony on our new home, Nexus.	
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Rather big change in flavour and lore that would be. It would require cutting up parts of the game and changing quite a few systems, creating a great amount of work which result in undesirable changes for a large part. All to improve queue times. Or is this talk of low population and the game "dying" referring to anything else? Because every time I walk into Thayd the place is packed. When I check out the marketplace it's booming, lots of people putting up items and lots of people buying. Whenever I go to a zone, more often than not I encounter a few folks leveling. And if I want to do instances, I refer to the people in my healthy, active and growing guild. Speaking of guilds. I don't think I've ever seen as many "This guild killed that" or "That guild killed this" threads as I have recently.
 
Wildstar's been doing better ever since drop 3. It may not yet be in a solid enough place to accommodate the queues as it should but look at it like this. Should Carbine pour their efforts into cutting up what they have right now and reforming it so that they can have the current player base have their queues, or should they invest in making the game more appealing as a whole, attracting more players and thus having a bigger pool for queues in turn?	
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Oh I also want to point out that there's already a cross faction established faction in game called CoGS.
Where do you find these? They're all around the SIMCores.
 
This faction has aurin, chua, Mechari, Humans/Cassians in it. There's yet another lore reason that could be built upon.
 
 
 
 
So tell me exactly why a Chua and an Aurin are in the same faction...?
Aren't they crazy sworn enemies for life?
Or perhaps since this is a new planet, new science new places that we can put our differences aside and stop acting like witless warminded uncivilized people and use diplomacy and find a way to coexist in harmony on our new home, Nexus.
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Heh...interesting take ;)
We could all be mercenaries I suppose.
 
I'm not totally with you on the factions "at the start".
We are still at the start to be honest. The game is not even a year old, and the story has only evolved up to the point where we know what the entity is and where it comes from.
When we look at the story with the raids, we're at the point where we are preparing to engage the entity and end it's existence.
What comes after that......anyone's guess really.
 
Would I do away with factions in the long run?
Perhaps, but then the entire game would have to evolve towards it I suppose.
Protostar and Cogs are definitely good paths to follow towards this.
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Rather big change in flavour and lore that would be. It would require cutting up parts of the game and changing quite a few systems, creating a great amount of work which result in undesirable changes for a large part. All to improve queue times. Or is this talk of low population and the game "dying" referring to anything else? Because every time I walk into Thayd the place is packed. When I check out the marketplace it's booming, lots of people putting up items and lots of people buying. Whenever I go to a zone, more often than not I encounter a few folks leveling. And if I want to do instances, I refer to the people in my healthy, active and growing guild. Speaking of guilds. I don't think I've ever seen as many "This guild killed that" or "That guild killed this" threads as I have recently.
 
Wildstar's been doing better ever since drop 3. It may not yet be in a solid enough place to accommodate the queues as it should but look at it like this. Should Carbine pour their efforts into cutting up what they have right now and reforming it so that they can have the current player base have their queues, or should they invest in making the game more appealing as a whole, attracting more players and thus having a bigger pool for queues in turn?
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			That would blow the narrative right out of the water.	
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I agree Soul, WildStar has been doing quite a lot better compared to the previous months, but it's also true that PvP is still in shambles.
While I'm not the great PvP'er myself, I do enjoy it now and then, and that's what is the problem right now. Queue's are not always popping for PvP events, which is often a let-down as I cannot PvP when I'm in the mood.
So this part of the game does deserve some attention as well.
 
 
Fair point. I agree that eventually both sides would go at each other's throats again.
So summerized, it would be cross-faction Battlegrounds where participants set aside their differences and simply compete for the money, but overal both factions remain in effect.
 
 
 
No.
Defile and Blighthaven are simply to continuation of the original story, adding more background to the Entity and Drusera.
By no means is the story taking a different ending here.
We've learned that something bad exists called the strain during our leveling adventure, and drop 2 and 3 added more background as to where Drusera came from, where the entity comes from and where they currently are on Nexus.
That Avatus was part of The Caretaker was also explained before. Omnicore provides simply more depth behind the reason as to why we're raiding in the Datascape.
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I agree Soul, WildStar has been doing quite a lot better compared to the previous months, but it's also true that PvP is still in shambles.
While I'm not the great PvP'er myself, I do enjoy it now and then, and that's what is the problem right now. Queue's are not always popping for PvP events, which is often a let-down as I cannot PvP when I'm in the mood.
So this part of the game does deserve some attention as well.
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The PVP issues are in dire need.
 
I dont wanna PVP in other games, I wanna PVP in WildStar. WildStar has the combat system I like, and the characters I love playing the most, and the game mode that I like the most.
 
Breaking down the faction wall and getting everyone into the same pool of players would be AMAZING to have, not just because que pops would be more often, but also ranked wise you get far more accurate skill division, and random shuffling of players makes sure teams can't get stacked and screwed with.
 
I don't care how it happens, just make it happen.	
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I agree Soul, WildStar has been doing quite a lot better compared to the previous months, but it's also true that PvP is still in shambles.
While I'm not the great PvP'er myself, I do enjoy it now and then, and that's what is the problem right now. Queue's are not always popping for PvP events, which is often a let-down as I cannot PvP when I'm in the mood.
So this part of the game does deserve some attention as well.
 
 
 
Fair point. I agree that eventually both sides would go at each other's throats again.
So summerized, it would be cross-faction Battlegrounds where participants set aside their differences and simply compete for the money, but overal both factions remain in effect.
 
 
 
 
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Oh yes certainly Olivar. But that's what drop 5 is dedicated to in a large part if I'm not mistaken. Which is what I referred to when I said "or should they invest in making the game more appealing as a whole". Sorry for not making that clear.
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The only place you really notice the lore and factions is in the starter zones and capital cities. Once outside those places, everything increasingly converges and both factions share the same quests, same story, same zones, same dailies. Quest hubs are sometimes placed on opposite sides of the map, sometimes almost next to each other, but beyond that it's all the same experience. And when questing for a neutral faction (Lopp etc) it's often a shared hub.
 
So, as you approach 50 faction increasingly becomes less relevant and just a barrier to getting things done. Quite often factions loosely co-operate on things that they can anyway (such as taking down Primes in the daily zones).
 
The levelling process and story can remain largely as they are, with a few adjustments. All that needs to happen is that grouping restrictions are removed for PVE and PvP instances. This should be OPTIONAL so that those who want to maintain faction exclusivity can, but those who wish to be more flexible have some more options for group content.
 
They also need to remove the racial restrictions on class, but that's a whole other discussion :)	
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And don't mixup words, I didnt say the story was ending, I said it was the end of a season/arc.
Datascape is the end of Season 1, Omnicore is the OVA and The entity+Drusera Blighthaven is the start of Season 2, that's what it feels like.
And the fact of the matter is, that Genetic Archives, and Datascape, story wise, come Before blighthaven and Defile story lines. Omnicore ties directly into Datascape.
Blighthaven+Defile is Post datascape.
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The entire game is build around 2 opposing factions, you can see this in almost any quest, zone or lore article. 
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According to Pappy everything up till the Lightspire was a prologue and Omnicore (and therefore Datascape) are actually chapter one of the Nexus Saga. 
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/632/feature/8927/The-Nexus-Saga-Begins.html
 
 
Anyway, the removal of factions has been discussed to death and the same arguments are always brought up again and again. The only real problem is the Lore, which honestly isn't that much of a problem to begin with. There are about three logical ways Carbine could do this:
 
1) Ignore the lore in instances. Just keep the story as it is with Exiles and the Dominion at war etc. but just mix up the factions when people queue up and don't make a big deal out of it. Just don't mention it in the lore and act like it isn't happening. Just pretend that Chua in your group is actually an Aurin.
 
2) Make it so that the player characters join a neutral faction like CoGS and use that as explanation as to why Exile and Dominion characters can play together while they're still officially at war according to the lore. You don't have to change the big plot or big things in the lore, just make a quest where you join such a faction. You could even explain it as you going undercover in that faction or whatever.
 
3) Have the war end in the lore. You can do this in all kinds of ways; a temporary peace to fight a greater evil, the Dominion sending in their whole army and forcing the Exiles to surrender or maybe even just general peace talks because both factions are tired of blowing up ancient Eldan ruins just to annoy the other faction.
 
It really doesn't matter what Carbine chooses, but the fact remains that currently the separate factions are actively harming the game. Queues for both PvP and PvE would pop at least twice as fast if you were to mix up or remove the factions, because you double the pool of players. For a game that is having big population problems this seems like a really logical and much needed change. As much as I love lore, it shouldn't stand in the way of improving the game by such a huge amount. Especially not when you don't even have to acknowledge it in the lore if you just make some changes for meta-reasons, and if you really want to explain it it's really easy to do as well.
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I'm happy for mixed or separate factions, I am really not that bothered :P Whichever way carb decides to take it, I'm sure the lore will be brilliant.
 
Mixed faction pvp will be fun though :D <3 Moar pops ^-^	
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The entire game? More like... the first two starter zones. About halfway through Whitevale and on, every single quest is identical. There are even entire regions of zones that are copy-pasted from one side to the other (hello, Grimvault). Endgame has nothing to do with the faction divide either, unless you consider PvP. Veteran adventures and dungeons? There's Hycrest, Tempest Refuge, and WotW, but that's about it. Heck, in that Thermock Hold adventure, you even work alongside draken as an Exile. Veteran shiphands? Nope... Raids? Double nope, all about Eldan stuff. Dailies?? I don't interact with the opposite faction at all in most dailies and when I do, it's to work together with them.
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There are so many changes coming soon for PvP and this faction thing has been discuss to dead, can we simply not wait a few days for the update :/
 
On Jabbit most of the time the random Exile group wears pve gear with maybe 1 or 2 in some sort of PvP gear, while on the Dominion side there seems to be always a couple of 1800 geared players.
It's simply no fun to see 2 players do more damage then the whole other team, makes you wonder what you are doing there since there is no sense of competition.	
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This issue is very simple.  The most talked about problem with this game is the population. Carbine could approximately double every players effective population overnight by removing faction barriers.
 
This game is niche. I love it so much, but most people could never play it.  Its brutally hard and full of complicated systems.  In my opinion it will always be niche.  Instead of two very small populations, one moderate one would work so much better.
 
The lore is secondary.	
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Malgrave : Race to get the Hypercube
Wilderun : First it's to get the Torine, then it becomes a fight against the strain whereas you get hindrance from the other faction
Grimvault is all about obtaining the strategic points to position yourself in the fight vs the Strain
Daily zones is about faction advantage on the planet using the Eldan structures and technologyNW is literally two camps bombaring with artillery
CB is about securing power
Blighthaven is the reseach about the Genesis Prime
Defile is about securing and controlling the lightspire
There is a lot of lore in each zone explaning and justifying why the factions are there.
Just because you don't agree with it/haven't seen it, doesn't justifying brushing off all content saying no factions are involved.
 
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Silly discussion is silly.	
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This issue is very simple.  The most talked about problem with this game is the population. Carbine could approximately double every players effective population overnight by removing faction barriers.
 
This game is niche. I love it so much, but most people could never play it.  Its brutally hard and full of complicated systems.  In my opinion it will always be niche.  Instead of two very small populations, one moderate one would work so much better.
 
The lore is secondary.
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Alternatively, they could just switch the pay model to buy to play/free to play and the population would skyrocket. I find it hilarious that there are people here seriously considering that Carbine completely gut the lore as opposed to just switching the pay scheme. (which is going to happen eventually anyway.)
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Alternatively, they could just switch the pay model to buy to play/free to play and the population would skyrocket. I find it hilarious that there are people here seriously considering that Carbine completely gut the lore as opposed to just switching the pay scheme. (which is going to happen eventually anyway.)
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Alternatively, they could just switch the pay model to buy to play/free to play and the population would skyrocket. I find it hilarious that there are people here seriously considering that Carbine completely gut the lore as opposed to just switching the pay scheme. (which is going to happen eventually anyway.)
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Alternatively, they could just switch the pay model to buy to play/free to play and the population would skyrocket. I find it hilarious that there are people here seriously considering that Carbine completely gut the lore as opposed to just switching the pay scheme. (which is going to happen eventually anyway.)
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I'm not talking sweeping changes to lore and story. I'm not talking about letting a chua enter exiles quest hubs or capital city.
 
I'm saying simply remove the artifical game mechanic that separates the queue pool, allow us to communicate without an addon and allow us to form groups	
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Yes factions hate each other. And even thou in many quests you are basically soldier. You are still foremost adventurer. There is no reason why your character should hate every single member of opposite faction (even more so when you are the one chosen by Genesis Prime and know that opposite faction is not your biggest enemy). I can totally see Granok and Draken team up and kill stuff together and then have BBQ and drink some beers :) . Sure most of them would still hate each other but those two? Buds :D
 
 
Most of my fellow mordesh are not interested in primitive and reckless Chua technology. But MINE mordesh would not be opposed to working with Chua on something.
 
Just my 2 cents ;) .
 
Just let us speak with opposite faction and group up to kill tough monsters (clear dungs)....for start.
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The levelling process and story can remain largely as they are, with a few adjustments. All that needs to happen is that grouping restrictions are removed for PVE and PvP instances. This should be OPTIONAL so that those who want to maintain faction exclusivity can, but those who wish to be more flexible have some more options for group content.
 
They also need to remove the racial restrictions on class, but that's a whole other discussion :)
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According to Pappy everything up till the Lightspire was a prologue and Omnicore (and therefore Datascape) are actually chapter one of the Nexus Saga. 
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/632/feature/8927/The-Nexus-Saga-Begins.html
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			Lol no. Epic immersion destroyer.	
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Lol no. Epic immersion destroyer.
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This can be said about MOBA games too, but they were built upon working well with less than 100K players consistantly, and now look what happened?
League of Legends is an INSANELY complex game with a mountain of knowledge that must be executed upon as fast as a player can learn and react to it.
In the end this sort of complexity and skillcap, drove it to popularity due to people wanting to be part of that skill basis.
 
WildStar is arguably less complex, but the issue still stands of it being niche.
Build the game right, and WildStar could potentially end up like LoL and DoTA, a niche game that gains a ton of ground because of it's complexity and interesting concepts.
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			Yeah screw the story/lore/factions, let's just add content with no faction restrictions/dialogue and random big things that you fight because why not. Meanwhile, I had to wait 2minutes in dungeon queue as a dps, faction restrictions need to be removed badly! Someone please think of the people waiting in queue for a few minutes.	
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Kinda not how it works out in game and with the added content.
 
Lore wise and content wise datascape and GA and omnicore are within the same confines of grimvault including their quest lines.
Omnicore ties direcly back into Datascape and is acquired in grimvault.
Meanwhile, content wise Blighthaven and defile are completely post datascape, even lore wise.
 
We learn about the entity in the Drusera instances, and more or less agree to help her out when it comes to the Omnicore and through the story quest line we end up figuring out what Drusera is.
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As huge fan of both LoL and Wildstar... I can't ever see Wildstar ever becoming as popular as LoL.  Your right they are both complex, but in completely different ways.  LoL is fun for almost everyone that plays it, from the hardcore diamond-challenger players to my wife who gets about 20 CS a game.  Wildstar on the other hand is really only fun for dedicated players.  
 
They are on opposite ends of their respective genres.  LoL is so popular because it took mobas and made them accessible to everyone (very similar to what WoW did for MMOs). Wildstar took something accessible (WoW) and made it more complex and difficult to play.  You can't just look at them in a vacuum, you have to compare them to other games in their own genres.  Unless Wildstar gets totally causuallized I don't see it ever becoming anything other than niche game.
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It ties directly into the Datascape.
Pay attention to Bell when she's talking and the whole datascape thing.
Datascape chronologically comes before Blighthaven.
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			just wanted to stop by and say that the faction barrier in this game is a giant mistake and should be removed as soon as the engineering time is available to do it	
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Omnicore ties directly to Datascape, yes. But why should Datascape come before Blighthaven chronologically? It was released earlier, sure, but I'm pretty sure nothing in Blighthaven or the Defile points towards it being after Datascape. I personally always thought that both zones were cut from launch due to time restraints and that's why it's still counted as taking place before Datascape. Pappy's words in that interview seem to at least confirm that Omnicore takes place after both The Defile and Blighthaven, and I've yet to see anything in-game which contradicts that.
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~snip~ (many mmo players enjoy factional rivalries, myself included) ~snip~
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			I don't know why people are quoting lore and the rulesets about the faction barrier.  The entire NA population plays on the PvE server and regularly works together for events in open world PvP, anyway.   	
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Lol no. Epic immersion destroyer.
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			Faction split works for some games because of population. It hurts WS and just divides the community. 	
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Omnicore ties directly to Datascape, yes. But why should Datascape come before Blighthaven chronologically? It was released earlier, sure, but I'm pretty sure nothing in Blighthaven or the Defile points towards it being after Datascape. I personally always thought that both zones were cut from launch due to time restraints and that's why it's still counted as taking place before Datascape. Pappy's words in that interview seem to at least confirm that Omnicore takes place after both The Defile and Blighthaven, and I've yet to see anything in-game which contradicts that.
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the amount of misinformation in these posts is getting ridiculously high....
 
Omicore happens when datascape happens. Just because it got added later does not change it's time location. The simulations run at the same time as the entire story line and are encouraged by Drusera to increase your experience for battling the Entity. However the original story of Omnicore is Datascape time period, which is Launch - Blighthaven
Primary reason for defunkt PvP is factions? based on what? simply cause you cannot play together with your buddy?
Unless you can actually show real numbers and not some random forum posts, this is pure speculation that the "majority" is against factions.
Calling bullshit on the "it's not a single toggle"? Have you seen the source code, have you actually programmed this yourself and thought about the posssible effects of all your scripts, triggers and events inside a game?
"Most MMORPGs are on a 1 year launch, 3 year pulishing license" - Wrong. First of all you have not seen a single contract of these publishers, nor do you know the conditions in these contracts. And our of experience I can tell you that Publishing contracts are either way longer when development is part of the deal, or way shorter if development is already completed.
 
So far I've only seen speculations from both sides as to why or why not factions would be good.
In the end it boils down to flavour, as separated factions do server a purpose. It's the story behind the game, the leading wire that guides you through or gives you a reason as to why something happens.
Whether you like it or not is completely irrelevant towards what problems we have with PvP at the moment.	
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Whether you like it or not is completely irrelevant towards what problems we have with PvP at the moment.
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the amount of misinformation in these posts is getting ridiculously high....
 
Omicore happens when datascape happens. Just because it got added later does not change it's time location. The simulations run at the same time as the entire story line and are encouraged by Drusera to increase your experience for battling the Entity. However the original story of Omnicore is Datascape time period, which is Launch - Blighthaven
Primary reason for defunkt PvP is factions? based on what? simply cause you cannot play together with your buddy?
Unless you can actually show real numbers and not some random forum posts, this is pure speculation that the "majority" is against factions.
Calling bullshit on the "it's not a single toggle"? Have you seen the source code, have you actually programmed this yourself and thought about the posssible effects of all your scripts, triggers and events inside a game?
"Most MMORPGs are on a 1 year launch, 3 year pulishing license" - Wrong. First of all you have not seen a single contract of these publishers, nor do you know the conditions in these contracts. And our of experience I can tell you that Publishing contracts are either way longer when development is part of the deal, or way shorter if development is already completed.
 
So far I've only seen speculations from both sides as to why or why not factions would be good.
In the end it boils down to flavour, as separated factions do server a purpose. It's the story behind the game, the leading wire that guides you through or gives you a reason as to why something happens.
Whether you like it or not is completely irrelevant towards what problems we have with PvP at the moment.
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It's really funny that you say that, because I can't think of any good reasons to split a playerbase into 2 different factions, and I'd love to hear why you think it was ever considered a good idea from a general standpoint, and a development / engineering standpoint.
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It's really funny that you say that, because I can't think of any good reasons to split a playerbase into 2 different factions, and I'd love to hear why you think it was ever considered a good idea from a general standpoint, and a development / engineering standpoint.
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It's how you approach your story and game. You either pit players against each other in 2-3 factions, or your make them co-operate against a common enemy which is not player controller, but then provide means for people to compete against each other in arena teams.
However destroying what people like in the PvE aspect for the sake of saving the PvP aspect is not a viable options.
Others should not have their preferences taken away due other issues.
 
Carbine needs to fix PvP and make it appealing again for people. That I do not dispute.
I however will dispute that PvE'ers need to give up their PvE elements for the sake of saving PvP.
 
So in the end, it boils down to what you want to have as base line for your game and story: 2 factions versus all together on a common enemy.
And personal opinions about whether this is old-dated, failing or not liked are irrelevant to the discussion.
 
And if I'd made my own game, would I opt for factions? yes, I would.
But I would for example work on a system where PvP gear is useless in PvE environments and the other way around. I'd allow people to chose their own progression path, but make sure that the gear obtained from it only works optimally in those environments. How I'd achieve this, I cannot say yet as this would require research.
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