102416-any-word-on-server-merges-page-2

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Its not just the MMO market, there are a lot of interesting games out there competing for the attention of gamers. For example, even though I am an MMO player, I actually played a lot of LoL this week. You cant have something boring when there are other interesting games out there, no matter the gender.
 
Also Wildstar is exceptionally boring for an MMO when it comes to Dailies and Adventures. I am not aware of any other MMO in the market right now that has content that is that boring.
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			People left because it's yet another themepark mmo that doesn't bring anything new to the table (besides telegraphs). I left because game became boring and I don't like LAS/telegraph spam.	
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42 servers in a community that can sustain 8. Players got what they demanded. Congrats.
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			My server is pretty active during the hours i play, after 6pm EST.  I see a lot of ppl in illum and trade/zone chat are pretty active.  I dont have friends so i cannot comment on the friends leaving part.  However my guild is still active since the day i joined it and many if not all members are having fun with the game. Perhaps its a server thing. 	
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People left because it's yet another themepark mmo that doesn't bring anything new to the table (besides telegraphs). I left because game became boring and I don't like LAS/telegraph spam.
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People left because it's yet another themepark mmo that doesn't bring anything new to the table (besides telegraphs). I left because game became boring and I don't like LAS/telegraph spam.
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Are most of the Deadstar people dominion? I play Exile and the population seems fine. Growing in fact. 
 
Sometimes the forums feel like they're for a completely different game than the one I'm playing.
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			Remember kids, if you play when your server isn't in prime time, it must be because the game is failing.	
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Odd I thought it was advertised as a sandbox, w/o telegraphs...I wonder what beta I was in....musta been watching the wrong dev speaks too...sneaky Carbine.
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It's always like that. WoW forums are the same way, incidentally. It's always the "waaaah the world is ending" crowd that's the loudest. Things are nice and good on Avatus. Actually, couldn't be better.
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It's always like that. WoW forums are the same way, incidentally. It's always the "waaaah the world is ending" crowd that's the loudest. Things are nice and good on Avatus. Actually, couldn't be better.
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I'm on Dominion side on Avatus and agree that things seem fine on Avatus.
 
Also, for what's it's worth, I checked the NA server status when I logged in last night (11PM eastern), and saw 5 servers on Medium, whatever that means: Stormtalon, Avauts, an RP server (Evindra, I think?), and two of hte pvp servers ( I'm assuming one was Pergo, but I can recall the other.)
 
Sure, population is down on many servers, but the game isn't totally dead - I do wish free server transfers were available from low-population servers to the medium-population servers though. It wouldn't force a server merge, but would give folks the option to move if they wanted to check out greener pastures before they quit entirely.
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So, I've been hearing about how "bad" it is even on Dominion-side Evindra.
 
Yesterday, early in the morning, the wife and I made Dominion toons on Evindra. We spent the whole day (minus a short nap) leveling up to 11. (She's WAY slower than I am. I'd've been 20 in that time!)
 
It's not dead. It wasn't as lively as Exile-side, I'll give you that ... but the Ellevar zone chat was perky, lots of people putting bounty groups together and being helpful to each other.
 
Now, I'm not sure if it was because it was a weekend, if it's because people are finally getting around to rolling Dom-Alts now that they've made 50 Exiles. I just don't know.
 
Regardless, it ain't "dead" by any stretch of the imagination.	
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This reminds me of the very first time I ran into this phenomena. It was in a game called Everquest, and the general discussion forum was called Gameplay. It was nicknamed Whineplay because ... well... almost every thread was exactly like this one!
 
I read that forum and became shocked and how awful the game was and how many problems it had. I saw a thread about a massive game destroying nerf that would cripple the pet class in the game. See, in that game, you could give your pets weapons and they'd equip them, and gain the dps of the weapon, which could cause some problems in game balance. They nerfed it so that the pets no longer got the dps of the weapons you handed them. The thread said that this would cripple the pet class and make them completely unable to compete with any other class, and there were huge numbers of that class saying they were quitting.
 
I had a friend in game who played that class. Very worried, I asked him about the nerf and how he was holding up. He had no idea what I was talking about. I asked him how badly his dps was doing now. He seemed confused. I explained the nerf, and he tested it out. His reaction to this class destroying mega nerf? 'oh yeah I guess the swords don't change them anymore! Oh well.'
 
He hadn't even noticed the nerf that the forums said had destroyed his class.
 
After that, I stopped paying quite so much attention to forum histrionics. 	
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			hi i recently started playing wildstar properly as i met some lovely people in the beta and this is by far the most anitcipated game ive been looking forward to this year, but to my shock when i logged in for the first time (and ever since) i checked what server i was on i noticed that every single server is low population, i think to myself" surely this cant be right, this game was meant to be revolutonary, how can nobody be playing?" so i began to play a day ago and have literally not seen another person . period. i know you guys measure your populations differently to other mmo's, but i dont understand how everything is deserted. it takes alot of fun out of playing the game.i even looked up how US servers are doing and nobody seems to be complaining there since its medium to high,what i wondered was is there a reason for this? and is there some sort of way to go to a populated server? because if i cant see, nor play with anyone else then how is it an mmo exactly? im extremely dissapointed.it gives the game such a lifeless feel to it knowing you may literally be the only one in the server or in this case one of few who play while knowing US are getting a better experience. do you guys have any solutions to this in mind or prepared? because i really dont want to have to start over and buy a US copy just to have a community. thats rediculous.	
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So, I've been hearing about how "bad" it is even on Dominion-side Evindra.
 
Yesterday, early in the morning, the wife and I made Dominion toons on Evindra. We spent the whole day (minus a short nap) leveling up to 11. (She's WAY slower than I am. I'd've been 20 in that time!)
 
It's not dead. It wasn't as lively as Exile-side, I'll give you that ... but the Ellevar zone chat was perky, lots of people putting bounty groups together and being helpful to each other.
 
Now, I'm not sure if it was because it was a weekend, if it's because people are finally getting around to rolling Dom-Alts now that they've made 50 Exiles. I just don't know.
 
Regardless, it ain't "dead" by any stretch of the imagination.
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			Do Europeans not like hillbillies?	
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			Literally? Do you know what that means?	
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Some prior planning would have prevented (some) of this whine-rage. Others will whine just to see their name on a forum and bait responses.
 
The prevention I speak of is this. Rather than add new servers at launch, they should have designed their zones to run additional instances of those zones once the zone population reached a cap. 50 people = spawn Everstar Grove 2. 50 more people = spawn Everstar Grove 3.
 
The problem with a linear game with very few entry points is that there will be a bottleneck the first week or so, then it will smooth out as people progress through the level curves. Eventually you have a thriving server with people all over the place rather than several ghost-towns because you scattered everyone by Server rather than just instancing the areas on a FEW servers.
 
But for whatever reason they did not choose to do this (hint: EverQuest 2 learned this back in 2004?), and now we have threads like this and the other server merge threads. At this point, with the population spread around, sure - merge PVE together, merge PVP together - and strongly look into instancing your overworld zones for future expansions - or even current population. Never know when 300 people might decide to do the dailies at once.	
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			Roll on Hazak, both Exile and Dom are pretty populated. Ravenous could be an option as well, but there is hardly any dominion left on my realm....  	
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Do Europeans not like hillbillies?
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Who wants to hang in Thayd or Illum?!?! With housing, you hang out there. Ever see the housing area chat... sheesh.
 
I am either on my main and hanging in NW, CB, or BH or I am in my house. If not there then on my alt leveling...  	
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			Lot of WoW bashing in this thread. So many angry exes lol. This game can learn a few things from WoW. I will probably never play WoW again. I'm not going to pretend it's the antichrist of MMORPG. You guys need to ask yourselves why it thrives while so many come and go. Instead of blaming it when MMO Brand X crashes and burns	
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I don't think it would hurt, though, if Carbine fixed the elder gem system so that you get gems less quickly, but there is no cap.  Then people probably would be on all the time.  Which might help if people are really distressed about what their server pop in the client says.  At the very least, it'll drive up the queue population.
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There's a reason new MMOs are using mega sever technology. I understand the feeling of having a server community etc but MMO populations fluctuate way too much these days for individual servers to work really well anymore. 
 
ESO will always feel lively because of their singular server design.	
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Lot of WoW bashing in this thread. So many angry exes lol. This game can learn a few things from WoW. I will probably never play WoW again. I'm not going to pretend it's the antichrist of MMORPG. You guys need to ask yourselves why it thrives while so many come and go. Instead of blaming it when MMO Brand X crashes and burns
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This reminds me of the very first time I ran into this phenomena. It was in a game called Everquest, and the general discussion forum was called Gameplay. 
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			I look forward to losing my names, when the inevitable server merges happen. Good thing we don't have megaservers eh guys? Just joking of course, people would have been able to play together and we wouldn't be in this mess.	
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I look forward to losing my names, when the inevitable server merges happen. Good thing we don't have megaservers eh guys? Just joking of course, people would have been able to play together and we wouldn't be in this mess.
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Well instanced PvP is a meaningless AoE clusterf**k, leveling PvE is too linear and boring for my altoholic tastes (i stopped after one lvl50 and 3 lvl15 alts)... and end-game PvE is too "hardcore".
 
Also C.R.E.D.D.-based walls is everywhere (repair bills, reset cost, dyes etc).
 
What should i do? Stick with my housing plot and dailies? :unsure:
 
 
 
This is sad, especially after ESO failure, but i'm done with W*... at least for now. :(	
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I don't see the game as dead...Not sure what your talking about.
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 DFJ brought up that you don't have to.  You could have a surname added to your name or use the original server as an "address" of sorts (Spenser@Evindra).  It could happen.
 
I don't know how much this matters to me, though.  As stated, I'm on Evindra.  There won't be a RP PVE megaserver (we are the only RP PVE server).  Can't see the harm in rolling together all the PVP and PVE servers in their respective regions, but I doubt (and hope) Evindra would also be packaged in.  Nobody on a regular PVE server wants to deal with us RPers.
 
That said, I think the issue is more sharding, people not playing for very long in a week due to EG cap, and people usually hanging out in housing.  All contribute to the servers looking a lot less packed than they are.
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Well instanced PvP is a meaningless AoE clusterf**k, leveling PvE is too linear and boring for my altoholic tastes (i stopped after one lvl50 and 3 lvl15 alts)... and end-game PvE is too "hardcore".
 
Also C.R.E.D.D.-based walls is everywhere (repair bills, reset cost, dyes etc).
 
What should i do? Stick with my housing plot and dailies? :unsure:
 
 
 
This is sad, especially after ESO failure, but i'm done with W*... at least for now. :(
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Evindra-ite here too. I do NOT want to be merged with anyone. One of the advantages of separate servers is it allows distinct communities to form. For me anyway, that makes it worthwhile.
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			Storm Talon still seems very busy.  I am not playing as much right now myself just because it is summer and I would rather be outdoors.  Since the next 4 months are already paid for with CREDD I don't really feel like I need to log in to play and get my moneys worth since it did not cost me anything.	
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Well instanced PvP is a meaningless AoE clusterf**k, leveling PvE is too linear and boring for my altoholic tastes (i stopped after one lvl50 and 3 lvl15 alts)... and end-game PvE is too "hardcore".
 
Also C.R.E.D.D.-based walls is everywhere (repair bills, reset cost, dyes etc).
 
What should i do? Stick with my housing plot and dailies? :unsure:
 
 
 
This is sad, especially after ESO failure, but i'm done with W*... at least for now. :(
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I must confess, all the Evindra love in here has me curious to roll an alt out there. Reasonable people... on a forum?! I almost don't believe it.
 
RP servers always seem to have the best communities!	
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I must confess, all the Evindra love in here has me curious to roll an alt out there. Reasonable people... on a forum?! I almost don't believe it.
 
RP servers always seem to have the best communities!
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With that being said, what are you playing right now/going to play?
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			Too many servers, same mistake mostly every other MMO seems to make. Subscriptions are really unpopular as well, they work for a month or two and then people drop them.	
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			NIce..that means we can rob all the empty buildings! sweeeettt! Maybe get some good board jumps off of big buildings.	
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I will be playing ArcheAge.
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Ranks right up there with "I rolled an immobile caster, and now I'm mad that I'm an immobile caster" that you see on every damn thread in the esper forums.
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I'm as casual as it get's, the game is fine for me. Kid/Job/Friends... Still manages to play around 4-6 hours/week.
Well.. i can't even log on, since saturday :/ Connection issues.
 
And who in their right mind (;) plays summertime? Two of my friends played and left, they will be back august/sep.
My server is low yet there's plenty of people everywhere, stealing my kills constantly, infact, i wish there were less of them out there xD
 
If low is this crowded, i wonder how medium servers is doing xD	
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Well the server I started on is now a ghost town, I moved to a busy server and while it's still busy it's clear to see not as busy, you start to see just the same names.
I came into the game with 7 friends, they have all gone and I doubt I will be renewing my sub. oddly we all say the same thing, we love our chars, we love the story but the game does not like us, it's just time sinks, walls and too many irritating encounters with more RNG than the national lottery.
 
I like challenging but the way they have done it here is just not fun.
I don't want a deadstar, i want the game to do well, I love my rat but unless something signifficant changes fast gamers will move on.	
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They were advised the planned launch servers were nowhere near enough when they still had the time to prepare a strategy. For instance they could have prepared temporary servers with full disclosure these would be shutting down once population stabilizes and everyone would be able to transfer their characters away to where ever they chose. They could have marketed it as a launch feature, put a big sticker "The devs are listening" on it, and all would have been well in the world. 
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Players wanted to be able to log in without 4 hour queue timers. carbine chose to respond to that by having however many servers per type. Don't blame the players for the way carbine implemented the idea.
 
Also, players now want fewer servers with more population. The situation has changed. There was never a single perfect answer or response, it needed more attention to detail than was given by carbine.
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The kids are panicking, must be their first release! How cute.
 
This happens with EVERY mmo. Nothing surprising.
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Hey all, 
 
Since we had quite a few threads on population and server merges, I went ahead and merged them together to clean things up a bit. 	
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Hey all, 
 
Since we had quite a few threads on population and server merges, I went ahead and merged them together to clean things up a bit. 
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			(Disregard, just saw the threads were merged... see my post above.)	
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I'm as casual as it get's, the game is fine for me. Kid/Job/Friends... Still manages to play around 4-6 hours/week.
Well.. i can't even log on, since saturday :/ Connection issues.
 
And who in their right mind ( ;) plays summertime? Two of my friends played and left, they will be back august/sep.
My server is low yet there's plenty of people everywhere, stealing my kills constantly, infact, i wish there were less of them out there xD
 
If low is this crowded, i wonder how medium servers is doing xD
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			I'll make sure to ask zone chat on my server if its dead.	
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Too many servers, same mistake mostly every other MMO seems to make. Subscriptions are really unpopular as well, they work for a month or two and then people drop them.
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I hope they never merge servers.  If anything, just to *cupcake* off those types that always call for them... then complain that since the game is merging servers, it's dead.  It's just a never ending cycle with some of you.
 
 
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If subs are so unpopular how does ARR have 2 million and it was released in 2013(?) ?Subs are still viable. Wildstar can still maintain that payment model. If this was f2p I wouldn't have bought it...
 
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			If paying a sub means the devs stay actively working on fixes, content and "listening"... done, paid.	
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I hope they never merge servers.  If anything, just to *cupcake* off those types that always call for them... then complain that since the game is merging servers, it's dead.  It's just a never ending cycle with some of you.
 
 
 
 
If it was F2P, you wouldn't have to buy it :P  But I get your point.  If WildStar was F2P, then I would be a lot less likely to continue playing.  I hate most F2P games and players.
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			I agree with OP, servers need to be merged if you want to keep a playerbase.	
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			On Topic. I still feel exactly as I did before. If Carbine intends for this to be a Niche game for the No Lif.....*er hrm*..."Hardcore" crowd then they should Merge the servers. A MMORPG perceived as "Difficult" is Niche in today's market. If they fix The Attunement and make Dungeons rewarding in the next patch. Not the one in September! THE NEXT PATCH! They should stand pat. People will definitely log in and resub. A lot of the people who stopped playing liked the game. They just hated the inaccessible nature of it. Gates, Walls and RNG, OH MY!	
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I think Carbine may have overestimated the draw this game would have.
I wasn't around at launch, what where the numbers like then?
 
That being said, Server merges wouldn't do my realm any good as I am on the Oceanic realm Myrcalus and there's only one of them.
Maybe free character transfers could be given to that realm only for oceanic players could be done if merges where to happen.
 
Who am I kidding it's probably 60% yank anyway, everyone can come.
 
Edit: because words are hard...
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			There could be 100 people playing the game, total.  I'd still have fun.  And I'd still care less if they ever merged servers.	
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			Server merges would be bad for me personally.  Since cross-faction anything (chat, mail, guilds, etc.) is almost completely firewalled I made the decision to roll my Dominion and Exile alts on different servers and I plan on using every slot (one for each class).  If Carbine insisted on being strict about the character slots, I'd have to delete some alts.  Or mark several of them inactive.  Or they could let me keep them active but I couldn't create any new ones without scrubbing the roster to 5.  Or maybe rolling on Evindra, which would be painful because I'd be starting from scratch.	
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Server merges would be bad for me personally.  Since cross-faction anything (chat, mail, guilds, etc.) is almost completely firewalled I made the decision to roll my Dominion and Exile alts on different servers and I plan on using every slot (one for each class).  If Carbine insisted on being strict about the character slots, I'd have to delete some alts.  Or mark several of them inactive.  Or they could let me keep them active but I couldn't create any new ones without scrubbing the roster to 5.  Or maybe rolling on Evindra, which would be painful because I'd be starting from scratch.
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Also keep in mind the fact that a server listed as Medium has about (or more) as a server that was displayed as High during launch. The fact that the population is much more spread out through the zones reduces the stress on the server tremendously (so they can fit more people without issues). This allows them to increase the server limits, and they have probably updated the status displays accordingly.
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Or to put it another way: they could implement merging servers as something like "free transfers for a month, then we pick a default for you and turn off the server".
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I do remember that free transfers worked wonders for GW2 a few months after launch. Carbine should really get on that... unless of course they want to milk the transfer fees longer. <_<
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Cougar
Director of Operation 
Carbine Studios Staff
Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:44 PM
Next Developer Post »
So this is a topic near and dear to my heart. It is also soooo hard to talk about given that I can't actually talk real numbers due to finance concerns, proprietary information and all that rigmarole. 
 
Short version? The realms are fine.
 
Longer version? Okay, so everyone complained about queues in the launch +2 week time frame? Well this is because many people were binge playing. During launch and during the binge playing, you get a TON more overlap in concurrency because players are just playing longer. Two people that play 6hr during launch might overlap to create higher concurrency, when maybe now they are only playing 2 hours each and those 2 hours don't actually overlap any more. Thus those two aren't building the Peak Concurrency, they are just adding to the normal population. 
 
If we had opened up more realms than we did (instead of needing to open the realms based on the spike in demand that we had that Gaff talked about in a few of his interviews), we'd potentially be in a bad state right now. Because we didn't, and we did have queues (as crappy as it is to be in a queue when you want to play) it was the right decision for the long term health of the game. Now that the populations are starting to settle into their long term patterns and aren't binge playing anymore, the realms are nice and plump. They aren't bursting at the seams, we don't see many queues any more, and there is plenty of activity for everyone to enjoy their game mode of choice.
 
As far as the "lows" and "mediums" that people are seeing, don't get confused or psyched out by the names. Our individual realm capacity is larger than what you are used to, and as long as you are finding people to play the content with you that you enjoy, who cares what it says there? At one point I talked about removing the "low" "medium" and "high" nomenclatures to say something else (maybe: off peak, populated, and busy) but it felt too much like "spin" and I ultimately backed away from it. Spin is just not what we do here.
 
So yes, peak concurrency has dropped since launch, and that's totally to be expected. That's exactly how MMO's work as people stop binge playing and get into their normal routines (and not everyone binge plays, but enough do that it is a predictable phenomenon). We still do need to earn everyone's loyalties and subscriptions, and we are working hard to make everyone that we can into our long term customers. From the Strain patch that is coming, to the work we are doing to make the game better, to the efforts of the GSU team and removing the bad guys from the game, to us just telling you how it is with as little spin as possible. 
 
Our tag line isn't just fluff/PR speak, and as we get into our normal rhythm of running this awesome game, we will have more and more chances to show you the truth of that statement.
 
So what are you doing reading this? You've got PvP/Housing/Questing/Econ PVP/Lore/Raiding/Exploring/ ALL THE THINGS to do. So go do those things rather than listen to this Ops Guy ramble  :)
 
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Why would any developer ever shoot themselves in the foot just to say "this is what you wanted"? Where's the logic in that?
 
EDIT: For them the most important thing would be to keep current players and possibly get more. Practically telling people "*cupcake*you" does not really work. Of course if they expect to suddenly get a huge amount of new players, then it makes sense to keep the servers, but how likely is that?
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Cougar
Director of Operation 
Carbine Studios Staff
Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:44 PM
Next Developer Post »
So this is a topic near and dear to my heart. It is also soooo hard to talk about given that I can't actually talk real numbers due to finance concerns, proprietary information and all that rigmarole. 
 
Short version? The realms are fine.
 
Longer version? Okay, so everyone complained about queues in the launch +2 week time frame? Well this is because many people were binge playing. During launch and during the binge playing, you get a TON more overlap in concurrency because players are just playing longer. Two people that play 6hr during launch might overlap to create higher concurrency, when maybe now they are only playing 2 hours each and those 2 hours don't actually overlap any more. Thus those two aren't building the Peak Concurrency, they are just adding to the normal population. 
 
[...]
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Cougar
Director of Operation 
Carbine Studios Staff
Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:44 PM
Next Developer Post »
So this is a topic near and dear to my heart. It is also soooo hard to talk about given that I can't actually talk real numbers due to finance concerns, proprietary information and all that rigmarole. 
 
Short version? The realms are fine.
 
 Spin is just not what we do here.
 
So yes, peak concurrency has dropped since launch, and that's totally to be expected. That's exactly how MMO's work as people stop binge playing and get into their normal routines (and not everyone binge plays, but enough do that it is a predictable phenomenon).
 
Spin is just not what we do here.
 
Our tag line isn't just fluff/PR speak, and as we get into our normal rhythm of running this awesome game, we will have more and more chances to show you the truth of that statement.
 
Spin is just not what we do here.
 
So what are you doing reading this? You've got PvP/Housing/Questing/Econ PVP/Lore/Raiding/Exploring/ ALL THE THINGS to do. So go do those things rather than listen to this Ops Guy ramble  :)
 
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I somehow missed the "spin is just not what we do here" part the last time I saw this post. Absolute comedy gold, I think cougar should have been a sit-com writer instead of a PR guy.
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Man what? Now you're being kind of unfair. Spin has been amazingly lowkey in nearly all departments.
And if you're talking about this post, it was perfectly accurate on June 19.
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In case people are still confused.
 
There was already official word on the server merge.
 
The answer is "No"
 
It was a twitter reply to a twitter question about will they merge servers.
 
You guys can find it on their official twitter.  Too lazy to search for it on you guy's behalf.	
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In case people are still confused.
 
There was already official word on the server merge.
 
The answer is "No"
 
It was a twitter reply to a twitter question about will they merge servers.
 
You guys can find it on their official twitter.  Too lazy to search for it on you guy's behalf.
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You should enable scripts, I edited my post before you posted the quote but you got the old version.
 
Hardly being unfair. If you're going to make a declarative statement like that, it needs to be accurate in the future too.
 
And yeah, I know it was from June 19th, when the bit about low = medium was semi-fresh and some people were seeing it for the first time and eating up the spin. The problem is, it still tells us just as much nothing then as it does now, except some defenders try to run with it to mean even more than was ever implied by that statement.
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The reply thing has nothing to do with scripts (I think?) but with me clicking the button and then being distracted by another browser tab before actually typing out my post. :P
 
Anyway, I strongly disagree with the "needs to be accurate in the future too" part.
He was talking about the situation on June 19. That's how I understood it, and what you're interpreting into it here I honestly consider your spin on his post.
As for the "low = medium" part... it's also true. Even when my server was "low" on primetime for the first time a few weeks ago, there were tons of people. Now? Not so many.
 
However, just thinking about it logically, the issue is clear to anyone: There is no server state below "low". So low can be 500 players... or 5 players. Maybe a percentage-based indicator would have worked better here. Assuming low can be from 0-33%, I'd say my server has gone from 35% to maybe 10% recently. None of this contradicts Cougar's post, and I'm seriously not seeing any spin here. But as I said: It is problematic for different reasons. Three states total simply don't give an accurate feedback to the player.
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That is exactly the problem that many defenders were trying to exploit to pretend the servers were better than they were. "You don't KNOW the server is empty or only has 5 people, it says low, it could have 9,999 people out of 10,000 to count as medium and it would still say low because the servers are so advanced!" <- actual post by lethality.
 
All the low = medium thing does is give them more wiggle room about what low really means in terms of numbers, and removes any precision from it.
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The most obvious thing that seems to get lost in these discussions is that probably no one would be here complaining or asking about merges, if they didn't notice a lack of population in game that affected their game play.
 
Numbers and tag thresholds lose their meaning, if there is already a detriment to people's game experience. And that's a very difficult thing to attach a numerical value to.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Nope, I still won't let you get away with calling this spin so easily. First, let's define spin:
 
I'd consider "spin" the act of stating something in a way that makes facts look more positive than they are. Similar to euphemism.
However, this requires an alternative way of stating it, that would not be as euphemistic.
Now, what would that way be in this case?
 
Low-Medium-High is the genre standard for evaluating server states in MMOs - Fact.
 
Wildstar's capacities and thus thresholds for Low-Medium-High are bigger than the average MMO - Fact*.
 
Servers were still very full even at the high end of "Low state" a few weeks ago - Fact.
 
Now... how, in your opinion, should Cougar have phrased his statement to make it "less of a spin"? I'm seriously not seeing it. He stated the facts as they were at the time. Facts without omission or embellishment can, in my understanding of the word, never be "spin". Literally.
What you're complaining about is the spin that rabid fanboys put on these simple, non-spin facts. You can't blame Cougar for that.
 
*(no reason to disbelieve this no matter how cynical you are, considering the small number of initial launch servers)
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Highlighted part is subjective and thus not fact
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Not really, since at the time there wasn't a single "my realm is dead" QQ thread. You saw it (or rather didn't see), I saw it, everyone saw it. Not subjective. The closest we had were "why is my realm showing as low". Which the post was meant to address.
 
Rest of your post is irrelevant, to be honest. We (I) weren't discussing what the so called "average player" can read into it, but how it could have been phrased in a less spinny way.
As for the omissions: Actual numbers were never going to happen. "No spin" doesn't entail breaking every established rule of information policy. Point being: The post was (as I already described) moving within the confines of accepted MMO information policy etiquette without trying to embellish facts. That's as "no-spin" as can be reasonably demanded in my opinion. There was no way to be even less spinny without providing numbers, and there was no way to provide numbers. Ergo: Minimum spin possible.
 
If you're honest with yourself, you have to admit you're setting unreasonable standards here. Look at the spin levels in 99% of the rest of the industry. I mean... Microsoft is telling us always online DRM consoles are a feature. EA is telling us Dungeon Keeper Mobile was controversial because they innovated too hard.
Let's keep some perspective here, for Pete's sake.
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Very subjective, as what does "full" mean? Full to capacity, full enough to not feel empty, full enough to find groups, full enough to talk in /zone and get responses?
 
So you're saying that spin is okay because other companies spin, even when this company says "spin is just not what we do here". You could just, I don't know, not trust their spin either? And where is this "no way to provide numbers" coming from? Other companies do this often. CCP gives you an exact to-the-minute count of the number of people logged into EVE. Other companies release sales/sub numbers to brag/advertise that their games are successful.
 
I didn't set the standard. Cougar did, by making that statement.
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{| class="blockquote"
Full means "full enough" as in "no one complained". In contrast to today, which is "tons of people complain".
"Low" June 19 was more than enough in the majority's minds. "Low" July 29 is not.
 
No, I'm not saying spin is generally okay, what I was saying is that you're being unfair.
Why?
Because you made a sardonic comment about Cougar being a spin-master, when (in my opinion) he included the minimum amount of spin possible.
As for EVE: Ok I admit I had no idea about this. That's pretty neat.
A rough low-medium-high indicator is still the genre standard though, and thus using it does not constitute "spin" for me. If it does for you, I'll refer you back to the start of this whole debate, i.e. that I believe you're being unfair/unreasonable.
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{| class="blockquote"
And now the goalpost is moving. First it was they don't spin, and now it's that he was spinning as little as he could.
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{| class="blockquote"
Full means "full enough" as in "no one complained". In contrast to today, which is "tons of people complain".
"Low" June 19 was more than enough in the majority's minds. "Low" July 29 is not.
 
No, I'm not saying spin is generally okay, what I was saying is that you're being unfair.
Why?
Because you made a sardonic comment about Cougar being a spin-master, when (in my opinion) he included the minimum amount of spin possible.
As for EVE: Ok I admit I had no idea about this. That's pretty neat.
A rough low-medium-high indicator is still the genre standard though, and thus using it does not constitute "spin" for me. If it does for you, I'll refer you back to the start of this whole debate, i.e. that I believe you're being unfair/unreasonable.
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I truly don't understand this thought process of "Capital city is packed my server must be awesome mentality"
 
I hate using it has an example but this is a WoW mentality. The reason being is because you can que up for EVERYTHING in the game from the capital city. So you never leave. 
 
Wildstar for MOST activities. You have to leave the capital city. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
tends to be easy for EvE because... its one..single..server. it is neat, but since they only have the one server, its really easy to see  how many people are logged in at that time. with Wildstar and x number of servers, the idea is nice, but unworkable. its like comparing apples to grapefruit.
 
it is unworkable on a multi server set up without core changes to server reporting and that should be fairly obvious to the person suggesting it as a yardstick. just more smoke and mirrors from the doom and gloom side
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How can you possibly say that is unworkable? They're already getting all those numbers AS IT IS,
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It's racist for you to say that all mmo devs can do simple math. Or ableist to say that they all have tools to count how many players are online. One of the two.
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Ahhh crap, they're Californian, aren't they. Yeah, that's my bad. Hey, s-some of my best friends are Californians! We hang out all the time! We hang the ten and catch waves, on the boards of surfing! Cowabunga!  R-right?
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That's just like what a purpleman from purpleland would say. What if you didn't grow up in the purpleschools learning math? How would you feel?
 
We don't know that carbine ever learned math, so you can't just make the assumption that they know math. Stop being so racist against carbine.
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{| class="blockquote"
My purple parents moved here in the 60s, they didn't live here. They never forced math on those peo- I mean, uh, on Californians. Oh man. Uh. I give charity money to Californian math schools all the time, I even retweeted #awarenessforhippies to spread awareness. I'm not part of the problem!
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{| class="blockquote"
Im for merging low population realms but theres the problem of having two people with the same name on a server (including guild names).
 
It would be better to allow (free?) transferes to specifc realms and see how it plays out.
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Check your privelege.
 
Not all people have money. We do know that carbine has twitter. Plus money from all the subs and credds. But they don't have charity money which they need to have in order to maintain their massive coke addition in addition to going to simple math schools. You should be more respectful of carbine's trans-coke-addict lifestyle. It's theirs to choose and you, as a purple man master race, are in no place to judge them.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm sorry, I was trying to help those less fortuna- I mean, oppressed by my brutal purple ancestors. I would give up my math ability if I could, to be more equal like those peo- I mean carbine. I would. I can't help I went to school this way, it just happened, I didn't ask for it. I understand I have no place to judge them, I respect Californians and their lifestyles and their state tanking because accounting needs math and social programs need tax money and it's not adding up for them but even so it's not my place to try to judge them on math. I'll do my best to be more respectful of their life choices.
 
Am I using the right pronouns for them? Do they want to be called something else, carbs, carbinos, carbas?
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{| class="blockquote"
*carbas. Lowercase always.
 
Let me go over a few points that people like you seem to always hate on carbas about.
 
1. You shouldn't be disappointed in carbas when carbas promises to be hardcore and doesn't deliver, that's classist of you.
2. You shouldn't expect patch notes that are accurate. That's linguist of you.
3. You shouldn't expect class balance. That's ableist of you.
4. carbas' meticulous fixing of issues shouldn't be labeled as "lazy" or "slow" simply because they never happen. They will happen but you're just being a speedist.
5. carbas' identification as hardcore is none of your business. It's what carbas wants to call itself. You should respect that.
6. You shouldn't expect customer service. That's like saying carbas values its customers. That's identity policing and therefore sexist.
7. Expecting carbas to have default mmo things like better handling of factions, quests or pvp is awful speciesist of you. carbas is a hardcore trans-mmo that identifies as a sci-fi mmo that is also half solo.
 
I think if you clear these things up we can have conversations about how this is the greatest MMO ever.
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{| class="blockquote"
*carbas. Lowercase always.
 
Let me go over a few points that people like you seem to always hate on carbas about.
 
1. You shouldn't be disappointed in carbas when carbas promises to be hardcore and doesn't deliver, that's classist of you.
2. You shouldn't expect patch notes that are accurate. That's linguist of you.
3. You shouldn't expect class balance. That's ableist of you.
4. carbas' meticulous fixing of issues shouldn't be labeled as "lazy" or "slow" simply because they never happen. They will happen but you're just being a speedist.
5. carbas' identification as hardcore is none of your business. It's what carbas wants to call itself. You should respect that.
6. You shouldn't expect customer service. That's like saying carbas values its customers. That's identity policing and therefore sexist.
7. Expecting carbas to have default mmo things like better handling of factions, quests or pvp is awful speciesist of you. carbas is a hardcore trans-mmo that identifies as a sci-fi mmo that is also half solo.
 
I think if you clear these things up we can have conversations about how this is the greatest MMO ever.
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The kids are panicking, must be their first release! How cute.
 
This happens with EVERY mmo. Nothing surprising.
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I truly don't understand this thought process of "Capital city is packed my server must be awesome mentality"
 
I hate using it has an example but this is a WoW mentality. The reason being is because you can que up for EVERYTHING in the game from the capital city. So you never leave. 
 
Wildstar for MOST activities. You have to leave the capital city. 
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{| class="blockquote"
I had no idea the purplarchy was oppressing carbas so much. Thank you for opening my eyes. I will do my best to celebrate carbas for fighting through adversity to take a half-assed dump on my plate and charge me for a full meal.
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Sorry this kid has played through almost 20 years of MMO releases...  Losing subs after the first month is normal.  Entire guilds and groups of friends leaving is something entirely different.  Especially when they're not leaving for another game.  If they get pulled by another game that's one thing.  If they leave because the game is boring and offers more bugs and problems than actual fun that's another.
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They need to just merge Rowsdower and Warbringer.
 
The problem is these are the two servers they opened up just because the default ones were too full on launch. Now these two have an extremely low population because only those frustrated on launch joined them, and then a bunch of people quit. More are quitting daily. I have a friend who has quit solely because he can't find a group on server to run content with, and the dungeon finder is unreliable because people just leave at the first sign of trouble. If Carbine had anticipated how many pvp servers were needed on launch, the playerbase would have distributed more evenly and we wouldn't be having this problem.
 
 
If they merge Rowsdower and Warbringer that might equal the population of pergo or widow, but it would probably still be lower.	
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{| class="blockquote"
They need to just merge Rowsdower and Warbringer.
 
The problem is these are the two servers they opened up just because the default ones were too full on launch. Now these two have an extremely low population because only those frustrated on launch joined them, and then a bunch of people quit. More are quitting daily. I have a friend who has quit solely because he can't find a group on server to run content with, and the dungeon finder is unreliable because people just leave at the first sign of trouble. If Carbine had anticipated how many pvp servers were needed on launch, the playerbase would have distributed more evenly and we wouldn't be having this problem.
 
 
If they merge Rowsdower and Warbringer that might equal the population of pergo or widow, but it would probably still be lower.
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			oops	
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{| class="blockquote"
They need to just merge Rowsdower and Warbringer.
 
The problem is these are the two servers they opened up just because the default ones were too full on launch. Now these two have an extremely low population because only those frustrated on launch joined them, and then a bunch of people quit. More are quitting daily. I have a friend who has quit solely because he can't find a group on server to run content with, and the dungeon finder is unreliable because people just leave at the first sign of trouble. If Carbine had anticipated how many pvp servers were needed on launch, the playerbase would have distributed more evenly and we wouldn't be having this problem.
 
 
If they merge Rowsdower and Warbringer that might equal the population of pergo or widow, but it would probably still be lower.
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			Free transfers from or merge Lightspire please	
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Carbine is holding onto the false hope that players will return, thats why they wont merge the servers. Because once they merge the servers it will show thier investors they made some really poor decisions, Like class balancing issues, stupid long attunement process and time trials as a method of measuring skill, even though I have raiders who I had to replace because they couldnt handle GA yet could do the silver vets LAWL.
 
Boring leveling, Grindy endgame, Warplots what happened to those again??? broken PvP. Infact the only redeeming feature this game has is raids, and now they are messing up the class balances. 
 
Heres a riddle: what do you get when you make a healing class that doesnt have smart heals then nerf its only redeeming feature like shield healing + its only decent form of HP healing mending probs? 
 
Answer: A troubled RNG healer in 20 mans and a Nightmare in 40 mans.	
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Fold all the PvP realms other than Pergo into one.
 
Edit:  Just rode around to make a sweep of Illium.  I counted 23 people.  Doesn't really feel like an MMO like this.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Carbine is holding onto the false hope that players will return, thats why they wont merge the servers. Because once they merge the servers it will show thier investors they made some really poor decisions, Like class balancing issues, stupid long attunement process and time trials as a method of measuring skill, even though I have raiders who I had to replace because they couldnt handle GA yet could do the silver vets LAWL.
 
Boring leveling, Grindy endgame, Warplots what happened to those again??? broken PvP. Infact the only redeeming feature this game has is raids, and now they are messing up the class balances. 
 
Heres a riddle: what do you get when you make a healing class that doesnt have smart heals then nerf its only redeeming feature like shield healing + its only decent form of HP healing mending probs? 
 
Answer: A troubled RNG healer in 20 mans and a Nightmare in 40 mans.
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{| class="blockquote"
Fold all the PvP realms other than Pergo into one.
 
Edit:  Just rode around to make a sweep of Illium.  I counted 23 people.  Doesn't really feel like an MMO like this.
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+10 
 
Holding onto hope Carbine pulls their head out and fixes everything plaguing the game asap instead of trickles of lacklustre content and empty servers.
Merge shit, fix shit, do something.
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They should have launched with 1-2 mega-servers per server type honestly, I was surprised they were going this route to begin with especially as a subscription game in an era where subscriptions are extremely unpopular, and mega-server technology is becoming more and more the norm. When they announced the business model for this game I was surprised, given the success NCSoft & ArenaNet has had with GW2's buy to play model I had assumed that would almost assuredly be the model used in this game. That, or a freemium model.
 
Also it's important to note that while these aren't "mega" servers, they are rather large servers, so they said that medium pop in Wildstar is High pop in other multi-server MMO's, and low would be medium etc. Either way, there's a significant and noticeable drop in concurrent players, and when Sabotage comes out it will be very telling to see how much the servers fill up to check it out, or not. On Stormtalon, it says it's medium, yet the cities are packed and the high level zones are very populated as well.	
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Have them Rowsdower folks coming on Warbringer.... ewwwwww.
 
I can't speak for Rowsdower, but Warbringer does not seem extremely low. I find plenty of people in the daily zones, and Thayd is filled with people, even really late on a weeknight.
 
(To be honest I don't mind a merge between the two, just as long as no one on Rowsdower has the name AdrianDenan. )
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			Just wanna pop in here and address a few people just in case they pop in here. It doesn't matter what FF XIV was like before. What matter is it now has 2 million subs. So yes. Carbine might want to take a look at what Blizz AND Square are doing. Stop making excuses for why FF:ARR is successful. You only elevate it's status. Did the original FF XIV suck? Yep. The Fact that they overcame such a huge failure of a game that was a disappointment to many people makes them worth watching imo. Bigger IPs couldn't overcome their earlier mistakes and yet Square has and ARR is thriving. Regardless of how you view the XIV situation. Whether you consider it 4 years old or 2 years old doesn't matter. It's a success as a Subscription based MMORPG at a where that was said to be impossible	
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{| class="blockquote"
Just wanna pop in here and address a few people just in case they pop in here. It doesn't matter what FF XIV was like before. What matter is it now has 2 million subs. So yes. Carbine might want to take a look at what Blizz AND Square are doing. Stop making excuses for why FF:ARR is successful. You only elevate it's status. Did the original FF XIV suck? Yep. The Fact that they overcame such a huge failure of a game that was a disappointment to many people makes them worth watching imo. Bigger IPs couldn't overcome their earlier mistakes and yet Square has and ARR is thriving. Regardless of how you view the XIV situation. Whether you consider it 4 years old or 2 years old doesn't matter. It's a success as a Subscription based MMORPG at a where that was said to be impossible
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I think the necessary point here is that Wildstar doesn't suck and has been out for only two months.  If three years turned that steaming pile of garbage into a great MMORPG, I think it's fair to say it's too early to start nailing up Wildstar's supposed coffin because it didn't keep all the people that tried it at launch.
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WildStar doesn't suck ... The Philosophy and inaccesible nature is what's hurting the game. Not the Core Design or Core Mechanics.
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My point EXACTLY.
 
There is nothing wrong with Wildstar that a little long-range planning and short-term repairs won't fix.
 
First, ditch the "hardcore only" mentality. Don't make it EASY, don't skimp on mechanics and actual gameplay. There is NOTHING wrong with those things. Moderate the more "casual" content and change the "Medals For Lewts" to something more equitable. For God's sake, throw the fake "time gated content' in the trash and let people advance how they want.
 
And please ... learning dungeons. Less potent versions of dungeons and adventures with commensurately smaller reward. Hell, to me, seeing the content is often it's own reward. I *really* want to see Malgrave Trail. I *love everything* about Malgrave, but man, listening to people talk, you'd think it was as a big a waste of time and effort as Housing. (yes, that's a joke)
 
Catering to a less hardcore base does NOT mean changing the actual game-play mechanics. Those are what makes something "hard" or "easy" ... not hiding our AMPs and Skill Point progression behind RNG bullcrap and time-gated nonsense meant to achieve nothing except slowing people down.
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{| class="blockquote"
WildStar doesn't suck but the biggest fix it needs to make has to do with Philosophy not design. Also FF ARR is a new game not just a redesign. That's how I feel. Look at 1.0 and the an look at what's there now. They literally destroyed original FF XIV.
 
A Realm Reborn is the relaunch of Final Fantasy 14 with brand new game engine, environment, mechanics and other features. FFXIV ARR is available for PC, PlayStation 3 and PlayStation 4.
 
Sure that's how the wiki views it but look at the what's in bold and tell me that's not a new game. My point about ARR is that Wildstar can survive. That is what I want you to takeaway from it. That thing I alluded to that both Blizzard and Square has is Accessibility. That is what Wildstar lacks. I don't think ARR is super amazing but clearly it's doing something right.
 
I know it's 2 months old which is why I haven't complained about the bugs. The Philosophy and inaccesible nature is what's hurting the game. Not the Core Design or Core Mechanics.
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			How will RP server merges work? There's only 1 EU English RP server	
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{| class="blockquote"
How will RP server merges work? There's only 1 EU English RP server
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{| class="blockquote"
My point EXACTLY.
 
There is nothing wrong with Wildstar that a little long-range planning and short-term repairs won't fix.
 
First, ditch the "hardcore only" mentality. Don't make it EASY, don't skimp on mechanics and actual gameplay. There is NOTHING wrong with those things. Moderate the more "casual" content and change the "Medals For Lewts" to something more equitable. For God's sake, throw the fake "time gated content' in the trash and let people advance how they want.
 
And please ... learning dungeons. Less potent versions of dungeons and adventures with commensurately smaller reward. Hell, to me, seeing the content is often it's own reward. I *really* want to see Malgrave Trail. I *love everything* about Malgrave, but man, listening to people talk, you'd think it was as a big a waste of time and effort as Housing. (yes, that's a joke)
 
Catering to a less hardcore base does NOT mean changing the actual game-play mechanics. Those are what makes something "hard" or "easy" ... not hiding our AMPs and Skill Point progression behind RNG bullcrap and time-gated nonsense meant to achieve nothing except slowing people down.
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Attunements is one thing In my opinion the pvp issues are what really hurt this game far more then anything else. This new patch may just be what the doctor ordered. I know I have folks waiting for this patch... Dying for it. In hopes that the changes coming will reignite their desire to play again.  Even the big guilds on my server who are pvx guilds even those who are raiding.. have lost players.. Because their members were also pvp fans and with pvp in such dire straits they didn't want to stay. 
 
As far as competition I know Archage has some folks hyped up about it and yes.. folks are getting beta invites from Blizzard. 
Wildstar can turn this all around. First the pvp patch must really do all they have suggested it will.  Drop 2 does great.. then you will all see a ton of people return. 
IF Drop 2 is not as big as we hope well I don't want to imagine it.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Attunements is one thing In my opinion the pvp issues are what really hurt this game far more then anything else. This new patch may just be what the doctor ordered. I know I have folks waiting for this patch... Dying for it. In hopes that the changes coming will reignite their desire to play again.  Even the big guilds on my server who are pvx guilds even those who are raiding.. have lost players.. Because their members were also pvp fans and with pvp in such dire straits they didn't want to stay. 
 
As far as competition I know Archage has some folks hyped up about it and yes.. folks are getting beta invites from Blizzard. 
Wildstar can turn this all around. First the pvp patch must really do all they have suggested it will.  Drop 2 does great.. then you will all see a ton of people return. 
IF Drop 2 is not as big as we hope well I don't want to imagine it.
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{| class="blockquote"
 
New guild logo? (check image name if you dunno what it is)
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