Report 751

Report #751
Skillset: Starhymn Skill: Angelichost
 Org: Cantors Status: Rejected Jan 2012
Furies' Decision:
We do not like the suggestion to make this ability move a target.
Problem: AngelicHost currently provides no real tangible benefit to our offence
given its cost. The skill has little synergy with anything, really. Because of
this, I propose the following:
Solution #1: Completely remove the current effect from the skill and replace
 with a summon type skill: STARSONG CALL BECKON ON <target> (By
 summoning an angelic host, you can beckon your enemies who are in
 adjacent rooms to you.) - This will cost 0p, but will be on a 4s
 Eq. It will be a single targeted action, respecting all the usual
 summon resists. Additionally, the target being off bal/eq, prone
 or shielded will stop this. This skill should ignore deafness for
 obvious reasons.
Solution #2: Alternatively, the skill will respect deafness. Should the target
 be deaf, the beckon will still go through, but on a 2 second
 delay.
Solution #3: As above, but give it a cost of 2p. For this, I would like to see
 the skill bypass shrine distort, deafness, monolith and block.
Player Comments:
---[Akui on 1/5 @ 00:43 writes]:
I always thought it would be neat if Cantors could sing someone back to life.
That might be a good use, if it retains a proper power/stanza cost. Overall, I
agree with the problem. The angel powers are unwieldly and restrictive to the
point that they are mostly useless. (Minor caveat for guardian angel after the
most recent change- it can be nice while bashing) As for the beckon related
solutions, I don't have a particularly strong opinion, save that it is mostly a
group skill, and Cantors are hardly starved for those!
---[Draylor on 1/5 @ 00:56 writes]:
Yes, whilst I do find myself agreeing on the group aspect of your comment, the
same could certainly hold true for any of the bard guilds. That said, I am also
of the mind that there is (an albeit small) chance that this could have use in 1
vs 1 combat also. Suffice to say, the skill in its current form is definitely
warranting of some attention. My proposal here seems to fit in well and provides
a little more cohesion into a Cantors offence. The power costs for a glamourist
certainly compound the issue and giving us that small chance and "bump up" so to
speak will go some way to alleviating that, I feel
---[Sivas on 1/5 @ 09:39 writes]:
I would be against solution three. But I would also think it appropriate for a
minor power cost for a successful beckon, since I'm assuming there will be no
need for buildup actions for the song/beckon to function, otherwise I'd be okay
with Solution 1 or 2 if it is adjusted in terms of power cost.
---[Enyalida on 1/5 @ 09:51 writes]:
Presumably it would have the same requirements as AngelicHost, though perhaps
not rewind stanzas? As Akui, I agree with the problem, the angel abilities are
indeed unwieldy. I don't particularly see any problem with the idea either, as
long as: 1) It consumes balance to attempt this, no chainyank esque spamming
until they enter. 2) It respects magical movement stoppers, 3) It has a power
cost. Bard combat revolves around staying put (in octave/Col.Mael.) and a
pulling in skill that dosn't take significant setup (as CairnLargo's pull does)
isn't something to be taken lightly. In addition, targeted beckon is stronger
then group beckon, as you are isolating a single member, with forknoweldge of
that group member's identity. So, Solution 3, but no going through
distort/monolith.
---[Draylor on 1/5 @ 12:17 writes]:
To quickly address: The skill will -always- require and consume a balance,
whether it succeeds or not. As for the power cost, you suggest it would take
power but not bypass distort/mono. If the ability was indeed given a power cost,
I would find myself bringing up similar skills: Angel beckon (0p), Rad (0p),
Ninukhi (0p), the list goes on. - Given that you wish a power cost to be
associated with it, I would like some form of benefit associated, really. That
said, your comment about CairnLargo indeed holds merit, although the skill does
a lot more than simply beckon.
---[Draylor on 1/5 @ 12:35 writes]:
I would be happy about a small power cost if solution 3 was not permissable. 1p
for a successful beckon with a 3s eq given the power cost. Would that fit in
with the general consensus? (Although I would still seek solution 3,
personally.)
---[Enyalida on 1/5 @ 15:20 writes]:
As I said, beckon is a group calling skill and is therefore less power. Rad is
not a pulling skill, it's a random movement skill, and runes have a material
component cost. Ninukhi has different mechanics involved and is blocked by other
things (iirc), as well as not being a skill possessed by a class focused on
bunkering down. It's more important for the bard combatant to be able to pull
into the room then it is for a monk. And anyways, though Ninukhi's extremly bug-
like ability to be spammed was fixed via that report, I don't necessarily think
that the consensus (among Envoys at least) is that it's balanced. Balancing
against a similarly aspected skill (Beckon) and refining the amount of control
on it (improving it) requires (in my mind) some sort of tradeoff. The most
obvious one here is a minor power cost. More exceptions to distort without
changing how distort itself works is what I'm mostly wary of, though.
---[Draylor on 1/5 @ 15:33 writes]:
You make a fair argument there. I guess I would not be adverse to it having a 2?
power cost. (This will still retain the 0p/4s eq cost upon failure, though.) -
Despite how this might outwardly look, this was never intended to be a
"spammable" ability like certain others. The main thing that I am wishing to
avoid here is us having yet another prohibitively expensive skill in place of
one that is simply getting no use whatsoever for similar reasoning. Does that
cost sound more on par with your train of thought?
---[Llandros on 1/5 @ 17:32 writes]:
I'm not sure this is the best direction for a change. In group combat other
guilds can do this and in 1 v 1 it would be pretty situational. I really think
you could get more bang for your buck with a different idea. Go for something
with max synergy or some kind of signature ability which is kinda what you are
looking to replace.
---[Enyalida on 1/5 @ 19:04 writes]:
Oh, and it would of course bypass distort if you were a DEFENDER. As Beckon
does. Just not in other people's territory.
---[Draylor on 1/5 @ 19:56 writes]:
That I can live with, aye. (Defender.) Thanks for the feedback and valid
reasoning.
---[Shuyin on 1/11 @ 20:21 writes]:
I have no problem with the suggestions presented, but I agree with Akui's
sentiments