108290-wildstar-population-ncsoft-2nd-quarter-2014-earnings-report-page-3

Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Page 4
== Content ==
			
{| class="blockquote"
Why, if it's precise enough to use as a metric, should we not judge how it judges other games?
 
According to RAPTR is the 13th most played game of last month, only slightly behind FFXIV:ARR, more than GW2 and FAR more than TESO.
 
According to RAPTR, Wildstar's doing pretty well, and I know it isn't doing FFXIV:ARR well.  It doesn't have the name power behind it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Because if FFXIV has a major part of its playbase in Asia and RAPTR has little to no penetration in Asia... there's your answer.
 
So let's not make this about FFXIV, but more importantly the fact that actual playtime was down by almost 50% for Wildstar.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That I don't doubt.  I raised that specter a month ago.  If people don't have a reason to log in and play, it doesn't matter if they're paying a sub, the queue is empty.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Wait, how is Wildstar only .08% off FFXIV:ARR (which has several million subs) and leaps and bounds ahead of TESO, which appears to be down to #26 on the list (off the bottom of the top 20).
 
Wildstar can't be doing that well given what we know, I can't even imagine them being THAT close to FFXIV:ARR given how well that game is doing.  I mean, I may think Wildstar is better and I may not play FFXIV anymore, but that's a solid game with a solid fanbase.
 
I just think these metrics are off.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Absolutely.
 
This is one of the reasons I wanted to post this. Carbine says "no server is below 50%" - but if only half of it's population is actually playing, what that means is "No server is below 25%". (Sort of)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Because it's a skewed view.  First, it's only people that use RAPTR so at best you're looking at 1-2% of the actual games populations.  Secondly, it's only looking at the PC side, and like DCUO the PS3/PS4 side of FFXIV ARR is absolutely full of people playing.  Now, ARR uses server tech that allows PS players and PC players to play together, but the only people getting credit for "playing" according to the website are the tiny % of the game that play on PC that happen to be using RAPTR.
 
Given what we know, it's likely the amount of RAPTR users that play FFXIV ARR and Wildstar are similar, probably in the low thousands - if that - and that's why the numbers seem so close.
 
These readings, the XFire readings, hell even Steam graphs on games that aren't exclusively on Steam are useless bits of information.  Anyone that's played the game can see there's a dwindling population. Unless a service that's reporting numbers is reporting for over 50% of the entire player base then who gives a shit what the numbers show?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Because it's a skewed view.  First, it's only people that use RAPTR so at best you're looking at 1-2% of the actual games populations.  Secondly, it's only looking at the PC side, and like DCUO the PS3/PS4 side of FFXIV ARR is absolutely full of people playing.  Now, ARR uses server tech that allows PS players and PC players to play together, but the only people getting credit for "playing" according to the website are the tiny % of the game that play on PC that happen to be using RAPTR.
 
Given what we know, it's likely the amount of RAPTR users that play FFXIV ARR and Wildstar are similar, probably in the low thousands - if that - and that's why the numbers seem so close.
 
These readings, the XFire readings, hell even Steam graphs on games that aren't exclusively on Steam are useless bits of information.  Anyone that's played the game can see there's a dwindling population. Unless a service that's reporting numbers is reporting for over 50% of the entire player base then who gives a shit what the numbers show?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 it's still obvious that there's not enough impetus to be constantly playing the game
----
			
IN THIS THREAD:
 
People acting shocked that we're finding out what we already know.
 
 :lol:
 
There is nothing in these metrics (off-kilter or not) that surprises me in the least. I always knew the game was too hard for the vast majority of MMO players to sink their teeth into - and if the industry learns nothing from this sinking ship, let it be that "hardcore for the hardcore" is the quick route to utter failure. No matter how many people scream about wanting "the hardest content possible" they don't really mean it. They *really* mean they want all the content, right now, today, at launch and they want it perfectly, without flaws and catered to every whim of every possible player.
 
The industry made us into the monsters we are today - and woe betide the game that turns a blind eye to instant gratification. You see the results before you.
 
Wildstar, beautiful Nexus. Vacating more and more every day, on the virtue of trying to hard to be the hardest of the hardcore. I'd like someone to go back and count how many times they used that phrase over the years. I bet it's in the thousands. At this point, I bet they pushed "hardcore" on us more often than we have players left.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Very true. Gold from post-EG cap playing might be... "nice", but considering the prices of everything in the game, it's pretty useless.
Yes, even 2 plat an hour is pretty useless. The top 20 items on populated serves cost dozens of platinum.
And let's not mention dye/vanity item prices.
 
It's just not worth my time (which I think is problematic in itself, because playing a game shouldn't be primarily about "making it worth your time", but that's a different story).
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Why, if it's precise enough to use as a metric, should we not judge how it judges other games?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Because some games may not be as popular amongst Raptr users as others. You can look at metrics within a single game for Raptr users and make some hypotheses based on that, but you cannot reliably compare across games because of the variability of Raptr use amongst players of these games.
 
Also, FFXIV:ARR has something like 2 million subscribers. WildStar is nowhere near that number.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Because if FFXIV has a major part of its playbase in Asia and RAPTR has little to no penetration in Asia... there's your answer.
 
So let's not make this about FFXIV, but more importantly the fact that actual playtime was down by almost 50% for Wildstar.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Because some games may not be as popular amongst Raptr users as others. You can look at metrics within a single game for Raptr users and make some hypotheses based on that, but you cannot reliably compare across games because of the variability of Raptr use amongst players of these games.
 
Also, FFXIV:ARR has something like 2 million subscribers. WildStar is nowhere near that number.
----
			
I had high hopes for this game too. :(
 
Lethality and Olivar need to get their heads out of the sand and realize this game is in a really tough spot going forward...
 
OR they could white-knight it until their heads are underwater with the ship.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Not sure how many subs specifically there are in FFXIV, but if I'm reading THIS correctly, looks like there's over 4 million characters. B)
 
"Characters Scanned: 4055022       Homepage Updated: 18/08/2014 09:25pm"
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Doesn't surprise me.  They had servers locking to keep gilfarmers from making new characters to spam us with, so it took two months before I could make my first alt on Gilgamesh, and that was the "smaller" unofficial RP community.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I had high hopes for this game too. :(
 
Lethality and Olivar need to get their heads out of the sand and realize this game is in a really tough spot going forward...
 
OR they could white-knight it until their heads are underwater with the ship.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Heh, Balmung is even worse. I was lucky I had all my characters planned from back in beta, so on launch I was able to squeeze them all in immediately. Shame the game's housing and costume systems are so awful.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Heh, Balmung is even worse. I was lucky I had all my characters planned from back in beta, so on launch I was able to squeeze them all in immediately. Shame the game's housing and costume systems are so awful.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And the combat.  I mean, it wasn't bad before Wildstar, but if I can't go back to WoW, I know I can't go back to FFXIV.  I tried both after the Wildstar beta, and I just couldn't do it.  I felt like I was moving in slow motion.  It's why I eventually cancelled both.  Not that they're bad games, but I just can't slow back down again.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 Even GW2 makes my eyes bleed and I used to think it was pretty badass.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
only shows what happens to all MMO's post release. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Same here, broski.
 
I can play DCUO ... and that's it. That's the only game that even comes close in terms of action combat. Even GW2 makes my eyes bleed and I used to think it was pretty badass.
 
In fact, I'm pretty sure that should Wildstar do a complete belly-up in the coming months, I'll be back in the skies over Metropolis.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm lol'ing so hard right now.
 
Some of you will stay in denial until NCSoft actually pulls the plugs on the servers in front of you.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
TLDR: Raptr's sample suggests people are playing W* with more frequency than popular games such as GW2, ES V, SWTOR. However they tell us nothing about the number of people playing, or the sub situation, only that more combined time is being spent in W* than those games.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Tables are real hard... How am I supposed to see how terrible W* is doing ...
----
			
We've gone from Quarterly report analysis, to population guessing, to Development Schedule, to FFXIV have 4 billion players to Fan boys, back to Raptr.  How has this 'conversation' lasted 18 pages?  Right.. forgot.  Internet.  Everyone has an MBA from Harvard and has 10 years experience as an Entertainment Executive.  While we're at it, lets start pitching ideas for shows or Wildstar expansions.  Or how to capitalize on the "failed" $100M US investment by buying off shore toy stores.  LOL.
 
Do we need less servers?  Yes.  Do the 16 pages of whatever else that is matter?  Nope.  Does this post matter?  Nope!  	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
None of those are sub based games. If you have a game that you're paying money to play each month, you have a financial driver to spend your time there or you are "wasting money".
 
(PS: Seriously? ES V as in Skyrim? How OLD is that game? Why even bring it up?)
 
I'm not sure if I'd interpret the week after week decline in playtime as an indicator as to how Wildstar is healthy, and I don't believe you can make the kind of cross-game comparisons that you're making in regards to playtime and have a meaningful result.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
  How has this 'conversation' lasted 18 pages?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
if 15 dollars a month ( a single meal at a low-brow restaurant) is 'wasting money' on a game you even remotely enjoy, than that honestly is a personal problem (no offense of course, but 15 dollars is nothing in today's economy).
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I meant that people feel compelled to "get their money's worth" so if they're paying a sub for a game they are more likely to devote playtime to it rather than another game they have that's free.
 
i.e. "I can play 'X' anytime, I'm paying to play Wildstar so I'm going to play that"
----
			Based off my guild 271 members with about 30 that actually sign in on a regular basis. Everyone else is 3+ weeks MIA........	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
We've gone from Quarterly report analysis, to population guessing, to Development Schedule, to FFXIV have 4 billion players to Fan boys, back to Raptr.  How has this 'conversation' lasted 18 pages?  Right.. forgot.  Internet.  Everyone has an MBA from Harvard and has 10 years experience as an Entertainment Executive.  While we're at it, lets start pitching ideas for shows or Wildstar expansions.  Or how to capitalize on the "failed" $100M US investment by buying off shore toy stores.  LOL.
 
Do we need less servers?  Yes.  Do the 16 pages of whatever else that is matter?  Nope.  Does this post matter?  Nope!  
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
I think someone's already mentioned this, but just in case you missed it - a huge chunk of XIV's playerbase is Japanese (my non-scientific estimate is anywhere from 1/2 to 2/3 of the game's population), and Raptr doesn't have much of a market over there. Out of all the MMOs, it's probably the most inaccurate one to compare WildStar with when looking at Raptr numbers.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Given that W* itself is under sampled by Raptr (as it's AMD based, and AMD is the only hardware W* is not optimized fully for); any bias in the raptr data should be a negative bias against W* play time; which means the data is conservative in nature.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
if 15 dollars a month ( a single meal at a low-brow restaurant) is 'wasting money' on a game you even remotely enjoy, than that honestly is a personal problem (no offense of course, but 15 dollars is nothing in today's economy).
 
 
----
			
FF14 RRB which I played for 2 months before cancelling due to nothing to do....has a massive decided advantage when it comes to over all subs: it's on consoles.
 
This means they have 2x or more the potential users rather than simply a single platform.
 
I would guess that of those several million subs, the vast majority are console users since those have next to no MMOs at all unlike PC where there is hundreds of choices.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Given that W* itself is under sampled by Raptr (as it's AMD based, and AMD is the only hardware W* is not optimized fully for
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I don't know what I'd do if NCSoft pulled the plug.  There's just nothing else I could do that would sate my appetite in an MMORPG.  Wildstar kind of ruined FFXIV and WoW.  If I'm going slow, I'll probably just go back to EVE.  Which I really don't want to do, because if Wildstar deserves to die, EVE has succeeded despite doing almost everything wrong.  It's using completely the wrong kind of interface for what it does, it would make the people complaining about the grind here wet their pants, and it is full of, among some very decent people, the most horrible jerks and assholes in MMORPG gaming.
 
But there's just nothing else I can see returning to.  WoW's too limited, FFXIV is too slow, and everything else seems kind of void and empty.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You keep saying this, as if it's going to become true if you say it enough.
 
The only point your posts are making is that you had completely wrong expectations of what the Raptr data would show, and since your expectations were so wrong, that somehow it's a good thing for Wildstar.
 
Fanboys gonna fanboy. All you need is Lethality in here and you guys can be the dynamic fanboy duo.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You keep saying this, as if it's going to become true if you say it enough.
 
The only point your posts are making is that you had completely wrong expectations in the first place, and since your expectations were so wrong, that somehow it's a good thing for Wildstar.
 
Fanboys gonna fanboy. All you need is Lethality in here and you guys can be the dynamic fanboy duo.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Give ArchAge a look, it's got a few beta events coming up. 120 different class combinations and the world pvp is epic. Siege battles, water battles, air battles (in gliders lol). However, the pve is a bit grindy. Still, it encourages a lot of customization and experimentation as well as having incentives for players grouping in a sandbox-ish environment. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
why is it that anyone that disagrees with a comment that disagrees with you is a fanboy?
 
surprisingly I feel anyone that disagrees with me just has a different opinion, which I can deal with without insulting them.
 
Raptr data is hardly the end all be all since not every gamer uses it.
 
in point of fact, I would go for the NCSoft data over the rather iffy Raptr data (since thats only a portion of gamers).
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Give ArchAge a look, it's got a few beta events coming up. 120 different class combinations and the world pvp is epic. Siege battles, water battles, air battles (in gliders lol). However, the pve is a bit grindy. Still, it encourages a lot of customization and experimentation as well as having incentives for players grouping in a sandbox-ish environment. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I did, actually.  I got a shot at my brother's beta when I was talking about hoverboards.
 
It's not... bad, I guess.  It's faster than WoW, but there wasn't much movement involved on whatever battlerage class he was playing.  Definitely not as much having to dodge around and be fleet.
 
The sea combat looked promising, but honestly, if Wildstar gets shut down, I'm not sure what successful MMORPG I want to play anymore.  Obviously, I'm kind of out in the cold; Wildstar's the game I've been asking someone to make for half a decade.  If it doesn't succeed, why settle for something with less?  RNG issues aside, Wildstar is the first game in a very, very long time where I've felt threatened by something my level that wasn't a player.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Ain't that the truth.  Not to mention that the races and the story actually make me want to give a toot about it. I mean, one can only stand Metzen's... weird (And I'm being incredibly generous here) orc fetish for so long. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Ain't that the truth.  Not to mention that the races and the story actually make me want to give a toot about it. I mean, one can only stand Metzen's... weird (And I'm being incredibly generous here) orc fetish for so long. 
----
			I dunno, not looked into archage at all....from sounds of it there is no pure pve servers (consensual pvp) thus I am not interested at all. I played enough grindcore pure pvp MMOs to know I don't like em and never will. Just want to mess around, level, grind, etc and not have to worry about joe ganker who's soul enjoyment in life is making others as miserable as they are. This is why I prefer pve realms if game offers them and do my pvp in structured bgs or areas when I feel like it. If AA has pve realm system then I would be curious so correct me if I am wrong.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Are you trying to claim that WildStar has anywhere close to 2 million users? Because that's really just not so.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I did, actually.  I got a shot at my brother's beta when I was talking about hoverboards.
 
It's not... bad, I guess.  It's faster than WoW, but there wasn't much movement involved on whatever battlerage class he was playing.  Definitely not as much having to dodge around and be fleet.
 
The sea combat looked promising, but honestly, if Wildstar gets shut down, I'm not sure what successful MMORPG I want to play anymore.  Obviously, I'm kind of out in the cold; Wildstar's the game I've been asking someone to make for half a decade.  If it doesn't succeed, why settle for something with less?  RNG issues aside, Wildstar is the first game in a very, very long time where I've felt threatened by something my level that wasn't a player.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah, Wildstar's system definitely has a lot more potential. I feel like I'm on training wheels now with tab-target systems. However, the vehicular combat in ArchAge is really fun. Nothing quite like dive bombing people in gliders. lol. It looks like Wildstar will take a few more months of adjustments before it starts to reach its potential though. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Raptr has over 20 million users in > 100 countries. Raptr comes with every AMD chip system; and AMD is just as much a part of the Japanese and Korean markets as it is EU and NA markets ( http://www.amd.com/ja-jp/products/processors )
 
I would love to know what evidence you are basing your claim about AMD not having a market in Japan though. 
 
Given that W* itself is under sampled by Raptr (as it's AMD based, and AMD is the only hardware W* is not optimized fully for); any bias in the raptr data should be a negative bias against W* play time; which means the data is conservative in nature.
----
			
Hum, not checked on ff14 rrb in long time....I might go back if they have actual BG or preferably large scale pvp that is not just another dumb arena pillar humpfest.
 
Did love my white mage, healing was pretty fun (funner than WS actually imo).
 
 But after running a single instance almost 400 times which was about the only thing I could do at the time...I unsubbed and never looked back.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
To be fair regarding undersampling, Raptr is only for PC games - Final Fantasy is available on PS3 and PS4 - Raptr number is a fraction the actual number of FF players.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah, I'm completely spoiled on flying games.  I learned to fly with a stick, throttle, and pedals on old FlightSim games and I had a blast in the heydey of Star Wars starfighter games.
 
Unless they make a Crimson Skies MMO, though, I don't think we'll ever see an MMORPG where that skill will come in handy.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Hum, not checked on ff14 rrb in long time....I might go back if they have actual BG or preferably large scale pvp that is not just another dumb arena pillar humpfest. Did love my white mage, healing was pretty fun (funner than WS actually imo) in that game I must admit but after running a single instance almost 400 times which was about the only thing I could do at the time...I unsubbed and never looked back.
----
			
Medics are the ultimate best healer in game, sadly I went esper healer and mere thought of re-rolling and losing almost 3 months of EG seems extremely unattractive.
 
W/e, not played this game seriously in several weeks and by looks of it that trend will continue until they fix the train wreck they made in drop 2 when It concerns PvP.
 
I am basically....paying not to play. :(	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
I'm pretty sure everyone would love to see the NCSoft data, but good luck getting it.
 
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Companies don't withhold good news. If this game's subscriber base was healthy and/or worth talking about, you better believe NCSoft would have said something about it by now. Their silence on the issue tells you everything that you need to know.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
There is an MMO coming out with aerial combat in space. In fact, it has a dogfighting game you can already play while it's in development.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
There is an MMO coming out with aerial combat in space. In fact, it has a dogfighting game you can already play while it's in development.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I hate to burst your bubble, but even WoW, who has little reason to hide sub numbers.... does NOT post them until their quarterlies.
 
so, the first one that includes anything Wildstar has been released, but ends prior to actual subscription money is involved. so, even WoW, with arguably a "healthy sub base" over the years waits for their quarterlies, like EVERY GAME AROUND, why would NCSoft break the trend?
 
my recommendation, if you want one, is use the $14.99 sub money to buy more tinfoil until there are actual release numbers. because until that time, you are being as factual as the "fanboys" you are intent on calling down
 
are there population issues? few people may say otherwise, but really, without hard numbers no one can state definitively because the numbers are not available.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Raptr has over 20 million users in > 100 countries. Raptr comes with every AMD chip system; and AMD is just as much a part of the Japanese and Korean markets as it is EU and NA markets ( http://www.amd.com/ja-jp/products/processors )
 
I would love to know what evidence you are basing your claim about AMD not having a market in Japan though. 
 
Given that W* itself is under sampled by Raptr (as it's AMD based, and AMD is the only hardware W* is not optimized fully for); any bias in the raptr data should be a negative bias against W* play time; which means the data is conservative in nature.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Way to completely miss the point.
 
Companies don't withhold good news. They don't wait to announce good news; they'll announce it whether their quarterly reports are soon or not.
 
Whether it's WoW, Rift, or SW:ToR, every single one of those games announces their numbers or milestones that they've hit (ex: 1 million subscribers, etc.) regardless of their reports. Trion (Rift) announced their "1 million total accounts created" like a week after the game launched. BioWare often commented on how PvP participation numbers were much higher than expected, yadda yadda. WoW doesn't announce anything because they don't need to; their numbers are on a consistent downward trend, but they're still in the millions. There's nothing noteworthy for them to announce, but they'll have no problem letting you know if they have 1-2 million preorders for WoD.
 
Don't you think if Wildstar hit some milestone, like 1 million accounts total, or 1 million boxes sold, 700k pre-orders, or whatever else you can think of, NCSoft/Carbine would have said something?
 
Of course they would, but guess what, they didn't. So guess what that means?
 
It's like most of you have no business world experience, or think the video game industry is the exception to the rule.
 
You're not going to hear a single thing from NCSoft until the next quarter, and why? Because they have nothing good to tell you, but will be forced to spit out something by that time.
 
Edit:
 
It is simple. Do you think if Wildstar hit 1 million subscribers tomorrow, or sold their millionth box, that NCSoft would wait until 3 months from now to tell you? Of course not. You know they'd get the word out as fast as they could by the next week. This applies to any other "good news", yet for some reason you guys have a hard time understanding that.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
Wildstar playtime stats might be slightly lower than actual due to being AMD based, but FF playtime stats are signifcantly lower due to being played predominantly on systems (PS3/4) Raptr can't even track.
 
Hope that more indepth explanation helped  :)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Raptr is a ..... SAMPLE; samples by definition do not comprise a full population. The fact that Raptr is primarily used by PC players (though Xbox is also supported) has no bearing on it's status as a sample of a total population (Game play time). 
 
For your assertion to be correct; there would have to be a systematic bias in play time between FFXIV players based on whether they play on console or PC.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'll say it again....
 
 
SAMPLE
 
Raptr is a ..... SAMPLE; samples by definition do not comprise a full population. The fact that Raptr is primarily used by PC players (though Xbox is also supported) has no bearing on it's status as a sample of a total population (Game play time). 
 
For your assertion to be correct; there would have to be a systematic bias in play time between FFXIV players based on wheter they play on console or PC.
 
Does such a play time divide exist between console / PC players? Nope, whether you play on PC or Console has no bearing on your play time in FFXIV. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Now you are just babbling. And you may have forgotten your earlier statements depsite my quoting them.
Again with the Xbox, no idea why that keeps coming up - totally irrelevant. Wikipedia links as well.
 
My "assertion" is that you made a flawed argument that Wildstar at #13 was "on par" to FF at #11 despite being "under sampled" due to being AMD based while ignoring (or becoming more likely, being unaware of) FF being undersampled due to being unable to be sampled due to the majority of its play time taking place on PlayStation. Was trying to help you out with that logic break, however.....
 
It doesn't look like you currently have the capacity to comprehend (let alone admit) that clear error in reasoning so just carry on and God Speed young man!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Incorrect. You cannot compare the two because the populations on Raptr of WildStar and XIV are not equally proportional.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
(as it's AMD based, and AMD is the only hardware W* is not optimized fully for)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Now you are just babbling. And you may have forgotten your earlier statements depsite my quoting them.
Again with the Xbox, no idea why that keeps coming up - totally irrelevant. Wikipedia links as well.
 
My "assertion" is that you made a flawed argument that Wildstar at #13 was "on par" to FF at #11 despite being "under sampled" due to being AMD based while ignoring (or becoming more likely, being unaware of) FF being undersampled due to being unable to be sampled due to the majority of its play time taking place on PlayStation. Was trying to help you out with that logic break, however.....
 
It doesn't look like you currently have the capacity to comprehend (let alone admit) that clear error in reasoning so just carry on and God Speed young man!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Sorry to go back two pages, but this completely killed me. On pretty mediocre settings Wildstar gives me about half the performance, at best, I got out of Crysis 2 on High. It's gone AS high as 45FPS a few times, but the average has been ~25.
 
If this is fully optimized for nVidia, I shudder to think of what AMD users are seeing.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The real important factor is the total play time. And even after what some have called 'server death', the total play time of W* in the raptr sample is almost on par with the total playtime for FFXIV; and exceeds total play time for ES V, TF2, GW2, & SWTOR.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Oh god I know that feeling.
I still log in sometimes just to see how the game is doing... and...
Those tiny "jumps"... that slow running (no sprint), those mobs moving in slow motion and doing zero damage... gah.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
When I said "Carry on!" I didn't mean "Retcon!"
 
Again, you seem to be forgetting what you previously stated despite my quoting - looks to me like the words "on par" appear in that quote.
 
The only thing I've "asserted" is that obvious flaw in your argument and so far you have "failed" to recognize or admit it. No biggie, carry on.
 
Is that "better" enough for ya?  ;)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I know English is a really hard language, but tell me Shy, what does that fancy word before 'on' mean?
 
 
 
Read more, it helps. [Almost on par] = [below] =/= [on par]
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
One would assume so, but again, if one points at the site I linked earlier, HERE, ironically enough, mostly the Japanese servers actually have the least amount of characters... lol, go figure. :P
(On left column, click "population" to sort by population... and the ones at the top, least population, all the ones with Japanese flag are right at the top...)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You find English hard? Are you ESL? Guess being a native speaker gives me a leg up.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
In other-words, thanks for proving my point.[ Almost on par with = just below] in the context of raptr rankings. FFXIV is only a single spot removed from W*, or quantitatively, Raptr Players played FFXIV for  0.08% more time than W* If that's not measureably close, or nearly the same, I think we need to have a chat about significant figures and orders of magnitude. The difference between 1.27% and 1.19% is about as close as we can get in this horse race, 
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Which prompts the question, why make such a dramatic reply to my using "on par" when I used your term to mean what you intended, i.e., practically the same? Baffling.
You were bent out of shape because I quoted where you used "on par" after you said you never did and raised the "almost" issue. Agreeing now that it means the same thing is confounding.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/56354-disgustingly-low-fps-optimization-for-amd/
http://www.reddit.com/r/WildStar/comments/27l104/any_word_on_optimization_for_amd_cpu_users/
http://www.reddit.com/r/WildStar/comments/276wgr/amd_cpu_performance_issues/
http://www.tentonhammer.com/column/respawn/wildstars-amd-cpu-issue-and-general-mmo-class-balance
http://teamlegacy.net/topic/15235-wildstar-performance-optimization-on-amd-cpus/
 
 
 
----
			
About a Raptr conversation i saw a few posts before.
 
Raptr tracks more than 30m players and i agree that shows a good trend, not max numbers etc.
 
As it concern WS now. At launch, considering there were many ppl using the 7 days trial, the played hours were up to 675k/week and it went up to 5th place. Now its on 32 place having 92k/week. The drop seems indeed huge but its common for new games and i have seen far worse than that.
 
Just for the record as it concerns mmo hours/week: WoW 1.2m / FFX 216k / GW2 (b2p) 183k / SWTOR (f2p) 155k / Firefall (f2p) 114k / WS 92k / EvE 73k / ESO 65k / Neverwinter (f2p) 60k / Rift (f2p) 58k.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
About a Raptr conversation i saw a few posts before.
 
Raptr tracks more than 30m players and i agree that shows a good trend, not max numbers etc.
 
As it concern WS now. At launch, considering there were many ppl using the 7 days trial, the played hours were up to 675k/week and it went up to 5th place. Now its on 32 place having 92k/week. The drop seems indeed huge but its common for new games and i have seen far worse than that.
 
Just for the record as it concerns mmo hours/week: WoW 1.2m / FFX 216k / GW2 (b2p) 183k / SWTOR (f2p) 155k / Firefall (f2p) 114k / WS 92k / EvE 73k / ESO 65k / Neverwinter (f2p) 60k / Rift (f2p) 58k.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Wow, hadn't looked too closely at each of the numbers on each game... but damn, Firefall is getting more gameplay than Wildstar!? :blink: I play Firefall now and again, and it's a decent game... just couldn't imagine it pushing that many more hours over a brand new MMORPG.  And that's not any attempt to defend or white-knight W* at all either, as I barely play W* anymore to be perfectly honest.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Going on Steam probably helped Firefall a bit, maybe some beta players are trickling back now too (how long was that game in beta anyway? jeez....)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Good point, I was in beta for the longest time on that game... even when it was first launching as alpha/beta, (think it was the original alpha, can't recall) when the devs were asking for peoples typical rigs so they could determine what to dial the game to as far as typical system requirements. :lol:
 
I haven't played it in a bit, but from what I've been seeing around the gaming channels/sites, there's supposedly some big/massive changes occurring with Firefall or some such. ^_^
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Hmm, maybe next time we have to reschedule a raid I'll try to convince everyone to log over, jump in a battleframe and run around, is the PvP pretty good?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I haven't played it in a bit, but from what I've been seeing around the gaming channels/sites, there's supposedly some big/massive changes occurring with Firefall or some such. ^_^
----
			
Despite the fact that this is the Internet and all, I'm pretty surprised at the backward thinking of many people on this forum (well, here and elsewhere). Every single person who is making claims about the failure of WildStar is literally clueless. For all any of us know, they could accidentally be right, but any information they're pretending to be using to make that claim is complete and utter speculation that has no real grounding in reality. So, sure, Carbine/WildStar could be having problems, but absolutely nobody on these forums has any information about it.
 
First, the hypothetical numbers. I don't want to even pretend to use real numbers because they don't exist for our eyes and would be complete speculation. Check it out. Everyone should be familiar with the fact that initial sales and therefore players were through the roof compared to their expectations. (I'm not confusing this with subscriptions.) Many of their servers completely maxed  out in capacity and then some and they had to open up a ton of secondaries in the first few days. Everyone who says, "Yeah, but look at it NOW," is still using the wrong information to draw the conclusion of "WildStar is dying."
 
Carbine expected box purchases and a population of X, and they expected for that population to decline to Y over the first several months to a year.	These initial expectations are assumed to be within the range of what would make WildStar profitable and sustainable. That's really the key: Expected Initial Sales X + Expected Eventual Subscriber Population Y = Sustainable/Profitable enough.	They ended up with way more initial sales than they expected (and I believe that revenue is magnified above what you might expect in this case because the majority of those were direct download from the website and therefore direct income for Carbine instead of split between Carbine and a distributor as is the case with true "box" sales), which means way more initial revenue than they expected.	Now refer back to my 2nd point. All they need to make it sustainable is to hit their Expected Eventual Subscriber Population Y. They don't even remotely need to maintain some "magical percentage of initial sales as subscribers" like a lot of people seem to be suggesting. So, for example, if they expected to maintain a 30% subscriber base over time based on expected initial sales, but got double the initial sales than expected, they only need to maintain a 15% subscriber base over time based on actual sales. You need to divide the population percentage required to make it sustainable (Y) by the number of extra game sales. All this is to say that it's not only easier now for them to hit their mark than they initially expected, but it's also many times more likely that they're hitting it than any of these doomsayers seem to think.
On marketing:
One guy on another forum essentially said, "They sent out an email blast to all their old beta testers begging us to come pay for the game. How desperate do they have to be to resort to email marketing?" Are you kidding me? Do you have any idea how much money it didn't cost them to send an email that took one guy nine minutes to write and send off to email addresses they already had on file? It's profound how little something like that could possibly tell you about the state of a game. Someone else on the same thread noted that there was some text on the login screen "begging me to subscribe to the game." That's obviously a stupid exaggeration, but the earlier point still stands; it's a completely free move to draw attention to, get people to do, or otherwise remind people of something that would improve the business side of the game.
 
On the sense or experience of population:
It's probably important to point out that the zones are instanced, or are sharded, such that there's minimal direct competition for mobs, farm spots, resource gathering, etc., but that you can still communicate and join with anyone else on your server all the time. So all these people complaining about how their server is so empty by virtue of the fact that they don't see that many people on simply fail to understand how the servers and zones work.
 
In conclusion, nobody outside of Carbine/NCSOFT has any idea how WildStar is actually doing. I truly do not understand the doomsaying by so many people on forums all over the place; my only real guess is that it's part of some bizarre social psychological phenomenon where people somehow need things to be all or nothing anymore, where the game either has to beat out all other games and totally dominate the market and your life or else it's worthless and a failure and dead in the water. It's an extremism that's frankly kind of sad.	
----
			
@ Hunter Wild
 
My dear friend you don't get the point.
 
All this conversation and posts are not about if WS is profitable for NCSoft etc. The point is about us, the players and if the game we play is fun. Believe me, playing in ghost town servers is not fun at all, even if NCSoft gets millions from them.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 disproportionate number of FF players being in Japan
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
All this conversation and posts are not about if WS is profitable for NCSoft etc. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
rant
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well yes and no.
Sure, there's the "I don't want to play on a dead server" component.
But there's also the "players are leaving at an alarming rate" component.
This component is directly related to the game's future profits. Even if it's fine now, it will not be at the current population tendency.
 
You could compare it to the world population scare that was going on a few decades ago. "Food production will collapse in 20XX for sure since population is growing exponentially!"
Turns out the population growth slowed down and the planet will apparently be fine for a little longer.
But if the predictions (that looked reasonable at the time) had been right, we would already be in trouble.
 
Same thing with Wildstar: As things are looking right now, it simply won't be sustainable for much longer from a business perspective.
Will the player exodus stop? I don't know. I hope so.
But people have been saying it will slow down for weeks now.
It hasn't, at least not by much.
 
@ Hunter Wild:
 
Sharded zones... riiiight... keep drinking that Koolaid. Low is WoW's High, everything is fine.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
... Rant
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
To be fair Tenner, it wasn't population slowing that prevented food collapse several decades ago; it was the green revolution.
But your point is generally valid.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Ya know, I have a hard time agreeing with ANYTHING that Centricity has to say ... like ... ever.
 
But seriously Hunter, you are deluding yourself if you can't see the population problem. You can preach all you want and keep your chin up, but at the end of the day, you are completely burying your head in the sand.
 
Wildstar has a problem. A HUGE problem. People just don't like playing the game in it's current form - and the reasons for that is a list far longer and more involved than I care to type out right now.
 
Can it recover? Maybe. Unlikely, but maybe. I don't think we'll ever see the number from even three weeks ago. They dropped "Sabotage" and it absolutely sabotaged any goodwill a vast majority of people had toward this game.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is probably true. People will whine if you make them wait, but if you make them wait just to make things worse, they will become bitter towards you. I don't think wildstar has much goodwill left with the people who left because of drop 2. If they do return, it will be because this is the only "AAA"ish action combat mmo and its hard for many to go back to no double jump, dodge, sprint.
 
It is funny that this game shines in the most important ways (combat system, movement, and pacing). These are the absolute hardest things to get right and wildstar nailed it. They failed in the policy and design choices (rng itemization, grind, inaction against exploits and large scale abusive behavior, credd system which allowed for a pseudo pay to win environment). Things like these leave a very bad taste in gamers' mouths, and many won't easily forget the frustrations endured.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Agree 100%
 
I would also add that another drawback for the game is the graphical design. Stylized graphics are ok but i think WS gone too far. I know many many ppl that dropped the game only after a few levels due to this. Even for me that i really love the game, graphics style is too much but i can stand it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well you can't actually expect them to revamp the whole game. I actually like the graphic style, because it suits Wildstar's character.
----