Report 78

Report #78
Skillset: Moon Skill: Resurgem
 Org: Moondancers Status: Completed Nov 2008
Furies' Decision:
We will lower the requirement to 3 members but not change the planar
requirement.
Problem: Resurgem has to be one of the hardest revival skills around to do.
Requiring 5 people and a body makes it difficult to use successfully, especially
in combat situations where the body is destroyed before 5 people can be brought
together. This also brings up the issue of how there's no way for us to revive
someone if the body is destroyed, while with all the other organizations they
still have the capability to do so.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Create the corpse destroying skill previously
 rejected (Report 25) with a few changes. It'd create
 something like a moon crystal from the destroyed body
 that can be used to resurgem others without a body.
 The crystal would last something around 3 IG months.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Reduce necessary coven members to 3 and make resurgem
 work regardless of plane. Ex.- Someone dies on astral
 so coven forms and resurgems from prime.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: Allow soul-resurgem as it was before except at an
 increased power cost of 5p from everyone in the coven.
Player Comments:
---[Synl on 11/16 @ 18:28 writes]:
Solution 2 sounds best. Solution 1 makes it essential to force praying, and
solution 3 is just good ol' OP.
---[Shuyin on 11/16 @ 21:50 writes]:
Solution doesn't strike me as OP if it still requires 5 people + 5 power from
everyone + same plane. But ymmv.
---[Shuyin on 11/16 @ 21:54 writes]:
Dammit, solution 3 is what I meant >:(
---[Xenthos on 11/19 @ 00:30 writes]:
Solution 2 seems like the best of the bunch, since long-range soul-rez from any
plane is still a bit... over the top. Even with the increased power cost.
---[Xiel on 11/19 @ 03:27 writes]:
I personally like solution 3 best.
---[Synl on 11/19 @ 14:46 writes]:
Er, yes, as Xenthos put it: by OP I meant simply that soul-rez at range is 'over
the top'... compare to Sacrifice, for instance. There needs to be -some- manner
in which to prevent resurgem from working, but I agree that 5 people is far too
many a requirement.
---[Sarrasri on 11/19 @ 21:26 writes]:
While solution 2 does seem the preferable route to go, that would essentially
just be a band-aid fix and not solve the issue with Serenwilde essentially being
screwed if the corpse is destroyed.
---[Synl on 11/20 @ 14:11 writes]:
Glomdoring has to gather carrion and find a Blacktalon to obtain an egg, and
then setup the egg in whichever area they plan to die for the rezz to be useful
at all (as corpse destroying only occurs by players, we're considering a pvp-
situation here). Celest has to, in the case of corpse destruction, lose
experience themselves via Sacrifice. Magnagora admittedly has it best, but they
still have to find a suitable place to rezz while liching and it often results
in a second death (again, in pvp). Serenwilde may get 'screwed' by corpse
destruction, but they also have 0 preparation. Everyone can be prevented from
getting rezzed in some manner, solution 3 means there is no prevention (unless,
I suppose, everyone in the coven is targetted by escozul and prevented from
sipping antidote for the time it takes to resurgem).
---[Shuyin on 11/20 @ 21:47 writes]:
I think you underestimate how quickly we can round 5 people together before the
enemy hits his 'eat person' alias. Saying that resurgem requires no preparation
at all is blatantly false
---[Xenthos on 11/21 @ 22:48 writes]:
Sojiro, solution 3 requires no preparation. That's why it's over the top, in my
opinion. It requires no real setup beforehand, just leisurely coming together
sometime after the death. It does not even require the same plane, or meeting
with the soul, or any real effort beyond burning a couple power. On the other
hand, solution 2 still requires preparation beforehand, but is at the same time
much easier to pull off.
---[Shuyin on 11/22 @ 05:18 writes]:
If I'm not mistaken, 'old' soul resurgem required you to get someone else's
corpse (we usually just kill another Seren) before you can do so. That does
count for something, does it not? So, leisurely come together, get 5 people,
hope you did it fast enough, if you're not, kill another Seren and then do it.
---[Xenthos on 11/24 @ 01:03 writes]:
With conglutination, of course... and, again, without having to find the spirit
or do any real preparation of any kind.
---[Nejii on 11/24 @ 10:32 writes]:
Since this hasn't been brought up, also consider that our rezz skill is
basically nonfunctional with our construct down since it would then require 5
moon users. With that in mind solution 3 is best (and make the 5p just take it
from the first three people in the circle, there should be no reason to actively
boot people from a coven so they don't waste power.)
---[Synl on 11/24 @ 13:54 writes]:
If the issue is that it requires 5 people, which are too difficult to gather, as
Nejii stated, would not lowering it to 3 people (even 3 moon users) be the
obvious solution?
---[Sarrasri on 11/24 @ 18:24 writes]:
Because just lowering the amount of people doesn't solve the issue if the body
is destroyed. 3 people or 5, you can destroy a corpse faster than it takes to
round up that amount of people.
---[Gregori on 11/24 @ 23:59 writes]:
Solution 2 is fair, it still requires time to gather people and quite frankly
corpse destroying is triggered and will -always- beat out the "I need 2 more at
Mother for resurgem!"... "I still need two more at Mother...." .... "Come on
there has to be 2 more... oh I need 1 more at Mother now!"
---[Shuyin on 11/25 @ 04:10 writes]:
Heh, conglutination shouldn't even be considered in the context of this, but
hey, sure. Why do you consider running to find the soul effort but gathering 5
people, killing someone, then doing it (probably for power) not?
---[Ceren on 11/26 @ 23:40 writes]:
Solution 2 looks best to me. Soul resurrection is not a right, it's something
pretty much unique to Celest (and avatars, now). Lichdom and egg, if you think
about it, are superior forms of vitae rather than true soul rezz.
---[Xenthos on 11/27 @ 00:33 writes]:
Because in terms of getting to the soul, you have to deal with (potentially)
enemy territory: If they die on Nil, for example, or are surrounded by eye
sigils. There is nothing of the sort with solution 3. By the way, Gregori,
Resurgem can be triggered as well. It used to be all the time in the Good Old
Days during conflicts. The Coven leader would trigger it to resurgem anyone who
died, and since they were more likely to be on balance/eq than someone fighting,
it usually worked. Even going so far as to resurgem Glom-folk into Serenwilde,
where we died to guards. Solution 2 would make that easier (fewer people
required to do it, so more can be in the battle), but does require preparation.
Though the whole "power" thing for non-Stag/Moon makes it a bit tougher for the
other classes, it's still easily triggerable for people who it costs no power
on.
---[Xenthos on 11/27 @ 00:35 writes]:
(That comment about "into guards" was more of a "it was triggered to get
everyone" comment than anything else. It does not work that way any more, and I
am not trying to imply it does.)
---[Gregori on 11/29 @ 17:47 writes]:
I am well aware of the fact Resurgem can be triggered, Xenthos. I have been
around just as long if not longer than yourself. It doesn't change the fact that
destroying corpses takes no preperation at any time, ever, period, end of story
in comparison to resurgem which takes preperation always, at all times, period,
end of story. Again, I support Solution 2.
---[Xenthos on 11/30 @ 03:46 writes]:
If it was made soul-rez again, it would not require that preparation. Which has
been the basis for the debate with Sojiro. I'm fine with Resurgem covens just
taking 3 people, which I've mentioned any number of times up above.