Report 1149

Report #1149
Skillset: Skill: None
 Org: Cantors Status: Rejected Apr 2013
Furies' Decision:
Rejected. We do not think there is really a problem here, and have noted the
extreme opposition from other Envoys.
Problem: Bards can be thrown off-track trying to track hearing on people who eat
earwort prematurely. We would like to add a third-party message to know when
eating earwort grants truehearing or prolong earache is earwort is eaten
prematurely. A third-party message was requested two years ago in Report 653 and
rejected, but I think it's ripe to revisit for two reasons: (1) there is a
noticeable trend now in adding third-party messages that makes this change
appropriate and in-line. Most attack-preventing defenses have a third-party
alert, including: circle/pentagram (from all sources including psi), rebounding,
prismatic barrier, protection scroll. (2) The small amount of damage that
eating earwort prematurely provides is not enough to deter systems from
prematurely eating earwort to throw a bard off-track (and off-eq) who is trying
to follow hearing so as to blanknote.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Give a third-party line (through shroud) when someone
 successfully raises truehearing.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Give a third-party line (through shroud) when someone
 is in pain from prematurely earworting during earache.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: Cause premature earwort eating to prolong earache by
 the remaining time once over.
Player Comments:
---[Rivius on 4/15 @ 17:24 writes]:
I'm fairly strongly opposed to this report. Eating earwort costs herb balance
and this is actually fairly important when you're pressured, even in a modestly
sized group fight. Doing this is a gamble as to whether or not the bard will
even fall for the trick and can gain you a valuable reprieve in groups where
sticking perfectfifth (and therefore trapping a person) can be extremely easy. I
don't think this is nearly as commonly seen a problem as is being made out to be
and there's certainly ways around it. I would recommend instead to modify your
blanknoters to take into account the minimum amount of time earache can last and
ignore any eaten earwort within this time period after a successful blanknoting.
This isn't too complicated to write and would successfully ignore all but the
best timing on eating earwort.
---[Celina on 4/16 @ 02:09 writes]:
Extremely opposed. Will allow a bard to lock someone in perfectfifth far too
easily if you can track their earache perfectly. Stacking aurics will become
easier, something I had little trouble doing when I was a bard, which is not
needed.
---[Celina on 4/16 @ 02:10 writes]:
It should also be noted that tour proposed problem is misleading. The "trend"
you are suggesting is new is not new at all. Shield, rebounding, and pristmatic
have had third party messages since I started playing 5 years ago, so that has
not changed though you seem to imply that it has. Protection scroll has no third
party message when it prevents an effect. All that being said, your problem also
doesn't state why it's needed, only that a pre existing "trend" for dissimilar
skills warrants it, which is not an adequate reason to report such a large
change.
---[Xenthos on 4/16 @ 02:12 writes]:
It's a pretty common tactic to try to eat extra earwort to throw the bard off a
little bit. Otherwise it is possible to just P5, and trigger the line to re-do
it in group tactics. You can just stand there and re-apply with no risk. Just
because others have a line does not mean that this needs a line, unless you want
to weaken P5.
---[Zynna on 4/18 @ 19:20 writes]:
Per Izekeal: Given the current efficiency of
gust/squall/treelife/whirlpool/headbutt for moving targets, I don't see why
having a third-party message for earwort is even a problem. I don't know a
single envoy that doesn't just use gust the moment they're pfifthed. Refusing
this report is just a slap in the face to the bard community. Mindfield gives a
third-party message when it occurs, and I personally feel any 'reactive'
affliction/attack like that should give one (such as brokenjaw and clumsiness)
but we need to start with earwort. In short, there shouldn't be any opposition
to Solution 2, if you're wincing from the earache, it shouldn't be any less
noticeable than when mindfield rebounds.
---[Celina on 4/19 @ 00:15 writes]:
What does mindfield have to do with earwort and perfectfifth? What a strange
comparison to draw, the skills are entirely unrelated. Apples and...bacon. We
don't want to eliminate all possibility of escaping pfifth in a group scenario.
On a person level, bards don't even need to be buffed like this to track aurics.
Unnecessary buff with extremely powerful implications in group fights. Nope.
---[Llandros on 4/21 @ 06:02 writes]:
Bard fundementals are tough to tinker with. The entire archetype is balanced
around about a second's worth of herb balance. Similar suggestions have come up
before and decided were not a good idea. I can't think of anything since then
that would have changed that. I totally feel you on this one. Hate that everyone
instnatly gusts a bard the second they use p5 or octave but this might not be
the best approach
---[Shuyin on 4/23 @ 03:44 writes]:
No thanks to this report. Fake eating is a necessary tactic given how powerful
pfifth is. Even moreso in groups.
---[Synkarin on 4/23 @ 14:54 writes]:
I don't support this at all, while I would love being able to know exactly when
a target is regaining truehearing, it would definitely be too much. I don't
really see how forced movement justifies this change, or how mindfield is
related. This would give the bard too much awareness.
---[Zynna on 4/25 @ 13:23 writes]:
The problem as I see it is two-fold. A bard expends a lot of power with octave
(3p) and perfectfifth (3p) that is often quickly wasted by being easily and
cheaply (no power) gusted from the room, thus wasting the bard's setup power.
Yet when bards somehow aren't being gusted from the room, they then have to
chase hearing (and sight to a lesser degree) but don't have a way of knowing if
the target put truehearing up successfully or not. There has been a trend
towards providing notification lines (see, e.g. report 860 changing keeneye to
tell the poisoner when the poison successfully hits instead of being shrugged).
See also current report 1040, seeking to add a line when illuminati claws
successfully strikes and report 1023 seeking to either add a message to reality
to let the caster know when it hits or to standardize the tic so that the caster
can reliably track it to his benefit. Especially given how easy it is to remove
a bard from a room, I don't see letting the bard know if the person eating
earwort gained truehearing (or prematurely ate and so has earache) as
troublesome.