120002-the-default-controls-are-wrecking-new-players

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Hi Carbine,
 
I've been documenting my help of new players through introductory dungeons for the past couple weeks (http://twitch.tv/rideh) and there is something I'd like to address.
 
Players do not know how to play the game.
 
I encountered players using gamepads, using 2 hands on keyboard using arrow keys + mouse. Players using keyboard for turning (who thought 6 buttons to move was a good idea?) while clicking on abilities.  The common theme in all of these characters? They could not REACT to the environment.
 
They were frustrated and pissed off seeing everyone else move so fluidly around them and nobody had ever told them to change q to a and e to d and get rid of keyboard turning. They thought that was how they were SUPPOSED to play, not that it was a convenience for being lazy while playing one handed running between zones.
 
Here is a personal account of one such player that further could not find the jump button:
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"and I wasted half an hour trying to get up some stairs (I suggest ramps) before giving up on a basic imbuement quest and another half hour trying to jump across waterfall stones before giving up on that one too."
- Eleytheria Dec 14
 
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Oh OH Oh!
 
Let's put stormy clouds on gear that isn't good for people and a smiley face for gear that would be good for their support role too! I love it!	
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You can't fix stupid, I'm sorry. No matter how many arrows, tooters and signals you put there.
WildStar uses the standard WASD + Mouse + 1-9 ability buttons.
Like eum.......ANY other game out there.
 
As for not understanding interrupts, that's the key feature of this game, and pretty sure someone can explain this properly.
Perhaps a small introduction to this feature would be nice, but then again who reads text ingame.	
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Since those are certainly basic features that need to be added (auto movement and input prompts for combat) we should also provide a service that gears and dyes your character for you, the gear options are too hard with numbers. I recommend a gold star system. If the gear has gold star then you are done, otherwise auto grant them gear with a gold star because everyone should have gold star.  That would fix players not wearing the right gear for their duties.  Everything should also autoscale to be killable by them guaranteed so their gold star gear works effectively.
 
Carbine please, the game is not ready for prime-time without these basic features of every MMO.
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	CRB_Anlath, not feeling the WS*Star navigation system?
 	
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Hi Carbine,
 
I've been documenting my help of new players through introductory dungeons for the past couple weeks (http://twitch.tv/rideh) and there is something I'd like to address.
 
Players do not know how to play the game.
 
I encountered players using gamepads, using 2 hands on keyboard using arrow keys + mouse. Players using keyboard for turning (who thought 6 buttons to move was a good idea?) while clicking on abilities.  The common theme in all of these characters? They could not REACT to the environment.
 
They were frustrated and pissed off seeing everyone else move so fluidly around them and nobody had ever told them to change q to a and e to d and get rid of keyboard turning. They thought that was how they were SUPPOSED to play, not that it was a convenience for being lazy while playing one handed running between zones.
 
Here is a personal account of one such player that further could not find the jump button:
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/119953-this-game-is-so-boring-that-i-cant-stay/
 
Other issues become apparent once they reach dungeon content assuming they do manage to summit those stairs:
 
Players can't predict that stuns are vital and are apparently unable to see enemies performing attacks without using addons like interruptor.  I appreciate that you added a spell animation to rejuvenate but they need giant call outs to tell them what key to press and when.   In fact to prevent them from missing those stuns we should have wildstar'star navigation aid that will move your character to the appropriate places to cleave and dodge animations for those that don't understand the need.
 
Since those are certainly basic features that need to be added (auto movement and input prompts for combat) we should also provide a service that gears and dyes your character for you, the gear options are too hard with numbers. I recommend a gold star system. If the gear has gold star then you are done, otherwise auto grant them gear with a gold star because everyone should have gold star.  That would fix players not wearing the right gear for their duties.  Everything should also autoscale to be killable by them guaranteed so their gold star gear works effectively.
 
Carbine please, the game is not ready for prime-time without these basic features of every MMO.
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Bacon symbols should go on the best gear. Better than gold. I would love me some bacon gear. B)
 
 
Re: gamepads - I'm told that if you pop the joystick thing off and just use the thumbpad there, that it's amazing for movement.	
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You can't fix stupid, I'm sorry. No matter how many arrows, tooters and signals you put there.
WildStar uses the standard WASD + Mouse + 1-9 ability buttons.
Like eum.......ANY other game out there.
 
As for not understanding interrupts, that's the key feature of this game, and pretty sure someone can explain this properly.
Perhaps a small introduction to this feature would be nice, but then again who reads text ingame.
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You've also probably quoted the worst post if you're trying to be taken seriously.
 
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			Apologies if I'm wrong......but is this the same person just making new accounts and trolling? Subject matter is very very similar	
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			If new players having trouble with default controls in a modern game don't realize that they can probably change them to something they like better, then there's nothing Carbine can do to help them.Modern games (MMOs in particular) are built with the realization that everyone is going to want to set things up a bit differently. This game is actually better than most (I know from experience that it was far better than SWTOR at launch and has only improved since).	
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			*applauds OP*	
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			*applauds CRB_Anlath*	
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			*applauds the idea of bacon gear*	
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I have another suggestion.
 
Right now, the game tells you to craft runes, gives you a material to craft runes, takes you to the rune station and gives you "Rune Touched Boots" which has a tool tip that says "These boots would be better with a rune."
 
This is not enough! They should have a giant lightning guitar riff that says "NOW RUNE THAT SUCKER!" and then automatically put the rune on for you.	
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			Guys who are flaming the OP, did you read the whole post? :P Cause I'm pretty sure you would have picked up on whats going on here it if you did XD	
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As for not understanding interrupts, that's the key feature of this game, and pretty sure someone can explain this properly.
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Guys who are flaming the OP, did you read the whole post? :P Cause I'm pretty sure you would have picked up on whats going on here it if you did XD
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I did, and I get that it was tongue and cheek, or at least meant to be. Problem is most of the post is written seriously and mirrors a lot of (frankly) stupid complaints I've seen other people make, so it deserves a somewhat serious response.
 
In any case I have a feeling the whole point was really just to get people to click on the twitchcast, and the rest is just a smokescreen (and not a very funny one).
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There's a Twitchcast?
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link to twitch at the beginning of the OP? I don't know what it is, I tend not to give people who drop links like that the satisfaction unless I have a compelling reasons to click, and I don't.
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ok ok, it wasnt link bait. I actually have vids up of running groups with new players and the time it takes to teach folks.   The post is mainly tongue in cheek but figured i could drop a few tips while i had some folks attention.  
 
That quake video is amazing and exactly what i'm talking about. <old school quake player reporting.
 
Bacon gear, also thumbs up.
 
Sorry for any feelings hurt in the making of this.  Need a positive / friendly way of letting people know to "get on my level" so they can truly enjoy an amazing game. People struggling with movement mechanics and such just simply won't have a good time.
 
Maybe the game should have an obstacle course at some point to determine if they need to go to a "starter" starter zone where they have to hit moving targets and whatnot.	
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 Need a positive / friendly way of letting people know to "get on my level" so they can truly enjoy an amazing game. 
 
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			I love this game. Spread the WildStar love  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:	
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			It's not the first time the controls issue is raised, but given that pretty much the same handful of people will post and  say that they have no issue + the community manager trolling tells me it's a lost cause. It seems that the game doesn't deserve real action rpg default controls because some people think it's a waste of time to work on such basic features for new players. :)	
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			I still have no clue what you're talking about phmb, from what I remember you were using the keyboard wrong and blaming it on the game for not being more mouse focused, just saying.Anyways, maybe they do need a tutorial to explain to people how to use their mouse and keyboard to play (even though this isn't something you typically see in other mmos).	
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I still have no clue what you're talking about phmb, from what I remember you were using the keyboard wrong and blaming it on the game for not being more mouse focused, just saying.Anyways, maybe they do need a tutorial to explain to people how to use their mouse and keyboard to play (even though this isn't something required in other games).
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			I wonder what that controls tab in the settings is all about.	
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Ummm,
 
What game in the last ....say 14 years didn't have similar movement mechanics? I know that there are a number that I haven't played and I also played a lot of FPS titles. But, I started the game and the first thing I did was jump up and down, check. move forward and back, turned left and right, and strafed a bit. Then I right clicked and drove off.
 
I admit that getting the jump timing and double jump down can be a bit trial and error. That the issues caused by the absolutely wonderful optimization can be a drag.
 
BUT, The default controls are wrecking new players?
 	
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Do they not teach satire in school anymore?
 
+1 OP	
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Ummm,
 
What game in the last ....say 14 years didn't have similar movement mechanics? I know that there are a number that I haven't played and I also played a lot of FPS titles. But, I started the game and the first thing I did was jump up and down, check. move forward and back, turned left and right, and strafed a bit. Then I right clicked and drove off.
 
I admit that getting the jump timing and double jump down can be a bit trial and error. That the issues caused by the absolutely wonderful optimization can be a drag.
 
BUT, The default controls are wrecking new players?
 
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Yup, but to be fair I could see a TOTAL newb having issues. Of course they should be resolved in short order.
 
My 13 year old jumped into the game and I think her only questions have revolved around when she would get the hoover board and where to spend amps and ability points.	
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I would agree with the OP if the target customer were computer illiterate 60+ y/o's.
 
While that is a market that may not have been in the scope of Carbine marketing campaign, I have to disagree that the play style is hard.to learn. I just hit level 20, and it has been the easiest 20 levels I've ever played in any MMO.
 
 My only real recommendation to carbine would be to consider telling customer that a multi-button gaming mouse is strongly recommended.	
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It's not the first time the controls issue is raised, but given that pretty much the same handful of people will post and  say that they have no issue + the community manager trolling tells me it's a lost cause. It seems that the game doesn't deserve real action rpg default controls because some people think it's a waste of time to work on such basic features for new players. :)
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Interruptor should be made into a base mod, with a toggle menu in the settings. It's invaluable for bosses and would definitely ease the problem of new players being incapable of interupting them.
 
 
 
Anyway interrupts aside, instead of gold stars and massive great signs that tell new players how to walk forward and turn, imo carbine should expand on the expedition system and make them into tiny tutorial instances in the same vein as ARR's guildhests. Guildhests are pretty much the perfect ice breaker for newbies and group content.	
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By the way, does it make sense to rune gear during leveling, as you earn new and better equipment so fast ?
Is it worth the expense, to recyle runes or buy new ones, to equip new gear for a short time ?	
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I rune gear while leveling. It really helps doing the normal dungeons instances and shiphands.
 
While you do level and get gear, it's not always better.	
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I appreciate this post is satirical in nature, but is there anyone out there that uses the default key binds? 
 
Just because it is "standard" for all MMOs, does not mean at all that it is intuitive or appropriate to this game (which is special for having a very not-standard combat system....)	
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I appreciate this post is satirical in nature, but is there anyone out there that uses the default key binds? 
 
Just because it is "standard" for all MMOs, does not mean at all that it is intuitive or appropriate to this game (which is special for having a very not-standard combat system....)
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By the way, does it make sense to rune gear during leveling, as you earn new and better equipment so fast ?
Is it worth the expense, to recyle runes or buy new ones, to equip new gear for a short time ?
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Sup low rideh, I use default controls and we managed bronze on Kelvoreth. You were a strong leader if not rough around the edges with your criticism. Barack Obama, Crisis Manager, salutes you.
 
I do, however, think your OP concerns can be blamed on much more than default mmo controls. :P	
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			I use Steer Addon and imho makes the combat an absolute blast.	
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I'm raiding in DS and still use the default controls and playing more than fine, appart from 6 to 0 rebound to my mouse. Use mouse to navigate mostly like everyone else but yea..
 
Also yes the controls might be a problem, but for people completly new to gaming in general. For example, my GF wanted to give it a try as she like the costumisation of characters and such, but she never play video games (not the action kind). It took hours to get out of the tutorial and I had to be next to her and tell step by step what to press or how to navigate (why do i have to use my mouse if i can move with the keyboard she asked).
 
So the real problem is not the commands, but the inability to coordinate the use of mouse and keyboard at the same time or even multiple keyboard buttons simultaniously. Controls themselves are easy but people new to gaming in generally will always have a hard time, especially on a MMO where there are alot of stuff going on.
 
Like that person having a hard time doing the "jumping puzzle" for explorer. He is probably really new to gaming in general and coordinating movement + jump seems like a hard task, and for them the answer is simply more practice.
 
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Still remember when I started as an esper and couldn't attack and move at the same time and was just super confused and thought controls were *cupcake*ed up lol.	
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but is there anyone out there that uses the default key binds?
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I appreciate this post is satirical in nature, but is there anyone out there that uses the default key binds? 
 
Just because it is "standard" for all MMOs, does not mean at all that it is intuitive or appropriate to this game (which is special for having a very not-standard combat system....)
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By the way, does it make sense to rune gear during leveling, as you earn new and better equipment so fast ?
Is it worth the expense, to recyle runes or buy new ones, to equip new gear for a short time ?
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I use 99% default keybinds. Only thing I changed was autorun, q and e. 
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So... you don't play with the defaults..... :P
 
and there's an obvious reason for that; the default key binds are bad, not necessarily for all mmos/fps but they are bad in this case.
 
WASD for movement = standard
1-0 for skills = standard
Mouse turning = standard
 
Obviously, Wildstar's combat is very much not standard, and straddles the line between mmo and FPS. In a traditional MMO having the standard keybinds is pretty manageable as you a) are rarely moving in combat and b:) are using tab targetting rather than mouse aiming. In Wildstar there is a huge emphasis on movement and FPS style mouse aiming and this is what makes it awesome.
 
You really haven't rebound a single key? How do you move and attack? how do you aim and turn your character? 
there is no way you can hit your innate (default = 9) and strafe/dodge/jump AND aim with your mouse,
there is no way you can turn your character (default = hold down RMB) AND aim your spells (because holding down the RMB causes the cursor to disappear....)
and no way to click on spells AND aim them...
....without having giant hands or a tiny keyboard or without making life easier and rebinding your damn keys :P 
 
It has worked in the past, yes. But this game is a truly unique combat system. Just because something works for 20 year old MMOs does not mean it is suitable now. 
 
 
The solution(s)? a) change the default to be more intuitive for movement based action combat b:) have a selection of default keybindings or "templates"/"profiles" that people can switch between to make it easier to experiment and ENCOURAGE people to experiment c) make keybinding part of the tutorial, guide people through. Make it obvious to people that you CAN change your keybinds to suit you, and yeh, you probably should because everyone else does. After all the ship area is now totally optional yes? why not have a discussion about it on the ship? d) give us the ability to rebind RMB and LMB and make mouse aiming NOT require holding down RMB (aka "Lockdown" addon which is just unbelievably good it should be in vanilla...)
 
 
New players don't need to be spoon fed, but they do need to be helped, and guided, and treated well. So much of Wildstar's combat is really intuitive and in a lot of ways easier to get to grips with than a traditional mmo, having defaults that don't match this accessibility makes absolutely no sense. 
 
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I've seen a lot of trash on these forums, but this one takes the moldy cake.
 
If people are too dim too see ome number us higher than another number and they should probably switch those two pieces; I see NO reason whatsoever to automatically put them in great gear simply out of pure stupidity.
 
Additionally, making sure everything scales to this gear and is a guaranteed kill kinda makes the game pointless right off the bat.
 
You might like puzzle game; there's a few Mickey Mouse games my daughter really digs... maybe some racers. You clearly want nothing to do with combat.	
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"use steer or deadlocked or something"
GREAT IDEA! Too bad they are clunky, broken garbage.
 
Carbine needs to put something like this in-game, it would be nothing but beneficial. 
How can you have an game with action based combat and NOT have it?
This is something that should have been in the game to begin with.
 
It's like R&C1 where the only "strafe" you had was hovering slowly with the rocket pack.
This is an MMO, you can't wait 'till "Wildstar 2: Cupcake Commando" to put in what should already be there.	
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"use steer or deadlocked or something"
GREAT IDEA! Too bad they are clunky, broken garbage.
 
Carbine needs to put something like this in-game, it would be nothing but beneficial. 
How can you have an game with action based combat and NOT have it?
This is something that should have been in the game to begin with.
 
It's like R&C1 where the only "strafe" you had was hovering slowly with the rocket pack.
This is an MMO, you can't wait 'till "Wildstar 2: Cupcake Commando" to put in what should already be there.
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How is Steer clunky broken garbage? It works exactly as advertised and gives multiple options on how to activate it.
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Ya know what, that's my bad, I stopped using them a long while ago(back when everything was crashing and resetting and straight up not functioning).
While it's not the "most terribly broken thing ever" you HAVE to admit that they function much more poorly than something that Carbine could(have) developed in-house.
I personally feel that they are a glitch-y semi-broken mess at best and between hotkeys not functioning and the camera being straight up wonky(not even gonna mention the crashing) they aren't something I really like recommending to people.
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Hi Carbine,
 
I've been documenting my help of new players through introductory dungeons for the past couple weeks (http://twitch.tv/rideh) and there is something I'd like to address.
 
Players do not know how to play the game.
 
I encountered players using gamepads, using 2 hands on keyboard using arrow keys + mouse. Players using keyboard for turning (who thought 6 buttons to move was a good idea?) while clicking on abilities.  The common theme in all of these characters? They could not REACT to the environment.
 
They were frustrated and pissed off seeing everyone else move so fluidly around them and nobody had ever told them to change q to a and e to d and get rid of keyboard turning. They thought that was how they were SUPPOSED to play, not that it was a convenience for being lazy while playing one handed running between zones.
 
Here is a personal account of one such player that further could not find the jump button:
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/119953-this-game-is-so-boring-that-i-cant-stay/
 
Other issues become apparent once they reach dungeon content assuming they do manage to summit those stairs:
 
Players can't predict that stuns are vital and are apparently unable to see enemies performing attacks without using addons like interruptor.  I appreciate that you added a spell animation to rejuvenate but they need giant call outs to tell them what key to press and when.   In fact to prevent them from missing those stuns we should have wildstar'star navigation aid that will move your character to the appropriate places to cleave and dodge animations for those that don't understand the need.
 
Since those are certainly basic features that need to be added (auto movement and input prompts for combat) we should also provide a service that gears and dyes your character for you, the gear options are too hard with numbers. I recommend a gold star system. If the gear has gold star then you are done, otherwise auto grant them gear with a gold star because everyone should have gold star.  That would fix players not wearing the right gear for their duties.  Everything should also autoscale to be killable by them guaranteed so their gold star gear works effectively.
 
Carbine please, the game is not ready for prime-time without these basic features of every MMO.
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I'm sorry I quit.
Since I cannot control my character through cheer willpower, this game is obviously fail.
If any dev is reading this, please implement a willpower reader.	
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You really haven't rebound a single key? How do you move and attack? how do you aim and turn your character?
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			raiding should reward banana stickers instead of gear because hardcore	
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I'm sorry I quit.
Since I cannot control my character through cheer willpower, this game is obviously fail.
If any dev is reading this, please implement a willpower reader.
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a native gamepad controller support + addons like steer / actioncontrol / YACM would GREATLY enhance  gameplay and make it much more accessible
please carbine look into this	
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Do you even play this game? Because based on your list I'm not so sure you do. Or at least you have no clue at all what the defaults are.
 
As was pointed out. R is the default for innate ability. That being a fairly easy key to hit with my fingers on WSAD.
 
I have no idea what you're talking about aiming, but it sounds like you're doing it the completely wrong way. I don't have any issues aiming my spells by pointing my character in the right direction playing both a Medic and Spellslinger.
 
But since you apparently click your powers... The above makes more sense.
 
 
So the default system that works for a FPS and works for a MMO doesn't work for a hybrid of the two? Seriously that's what you're going to go with?
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I appreciate this post is satirical in nature, but is there anyone out there that uses the default key binds?
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