121042-just-cancelled-my-sub

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== Content ==
			yup, I did it. My guild moved on to Jabbit and Luminai is as much empty as it was quite a few months ago. What am I paying for? An empty server? No indication from the devs that they're going to solve the problem?This game was very much based on group effort and is not a solo MMO. Telling nothing about the PvP servers to new customers is bad. Doing nothing about 2 out of 4 of your servers for so long is likewise bad. Rash solutions should never be done, but by now, either find a way to improve our quality of life right now or stop charging people. Because leaving for as long as you left it like it is, it's simply unforgivable. I will keep my eyes out, if PvP servers ever recover, I'll resub. For now, the game is not a very great single player experience.	
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Take care Mirta, I'm sorry to see you go and understand your frustration. Hopefully we can fight eachother later when/if you return or in some other game.
 
*hug* Good luck and remember to have fun wherever you go!	
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Take care Mirta, I'm sorry to see you go and understand your frustration. Hopefully we can fight eachother later when/if you return or in some other game.
 
*hug* Good luck and remember to have fun wherever you go!
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we turned our guild into a community so now I'm a guild leader in a different MMO and still keep in touch with everyone :) I'm pretty sure that I'll run into all of you guys again too.
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we turned our guild into a community so now I'm a guild leader in a different MMO and still keep in touch with everyone :) I'm pretty sure that I'll run into all of you guys again too.
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			Im PvX turned PVE for wildstar, i moved to the PVE server and It's been fantastic. That being said WildStar really really needs more to do than Raids at end game.	
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			Not really sure what you expect the dev team to do to fix the pvp population in such a short time, especially when holidays were right in the middle of that time. While I understand your frustration, I don't think it's fair to say "The devs don't care" when you aren't giving them adequate time to come up with and implement a plan, without neglecting the rest of the game.	
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Carbine can do NOTHING to help the PvP servers. They messed up with the transfers and PvP servers will never recover. If you can't handle this fact, do as you did, unsub and leave the game.
 
Sorry but its the harsh truth.	
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Not really sure what you expect the dev team to do to fix the pvp population in such a short time, especially when holidays were right in the middle of that time. While I understand your frustration, I don't think it's fair to say "The devs don't care" when you aren't giving them adequate time to come up with and implement a plan, without neglecting the rest of the game.
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Im PvX turned PVE for wildstar, i moved to the PVE server and It's been fantastic. That being said WildStar really really needs more to do than Raids at end game.
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yup, I did it. My guild moved on to Jabbit and Luminai is as much empty as it was quite a few months ago. 
What am I paying for? An empty server? No indication from the devs that they're going to solve the problem?
 
This game was very much based on group effort and is not a solo MMO. Telling nothing about the PvP servers to new customers is bad. Doing nothing about 2 out of 4 of your servers for so long is likewise bad. 
 
Rash solutions should never be done, but by now, either find a way to improve our quality of life right now or stop charging people. Because leaving for as long as you left it like it is, it's simply unforgivable. 
 
I will keep my eyes out, if PvP servers ever recover, I'll resub. For now, the game is not a very great single player experience.
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You could always transfer to Jabbit... its free
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if I would originally want to only PVE then I would do it. However that was not my preferred play style. So why stay when I can get my preferred play style in other games?
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7. Before rage quitting, why not take advantage of the free transfer and see how it is.
 
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if I would originally want to only PVE then I would do it. However that was not my preferred play style. So why stay when I can get my preferred play style in other games?
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Not really sure what you expect the dev team to do to fix the pvp population in such a short time, especially when holidays were right in the middle of that time. While I understand your frustration, I don't think it's fair to say "The devs don't care" when you aren't giving them adequate time to come up with and implement a plan, without neglecting the rest of the game.
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Not really sure what you expect the dev team to do to fix the pvp population in such a short time, especially when holidays were right in the middle of that time. While I understand your frustration, I don't think it's fair to say "The devs don't care" when you aren't giving them adequate time to come up with and implement a plan, without neglecting the rest of the game.
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(this is not meant to be snarky, attacking, offensive, etc..., so please read this without feeling like I am attacking you in any way)
 
I've only ever played on a PvP server in SWTOR.  I got "stuck" there because that's what the guild I joined with chose(and *cupcake* it all, they quit the game with in a couple of months, if that).  Other than the occasional gank, I don't know what difference I really saw between PvP and PvE server(though I'll admit SWTOR may not be the best example of a game when it comes to PvP, but that's all I have :P ).  I can't honestly remember if WAR had PvE and PvP servers, but I loved their RvR lakes :D  WoW, I was on a PvE server.  Same for Rift.  
 
So with that out of the way so you know why I'm asking these questions :P  
 
What can the Devs do that will make PvP server better in Wildstar?  What should they add?  What should they take away? 	
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(this is not meant to be snarky, attacking, offensive, etc..., so please read this without feeling like I am attacking you in any way)
 
I've only ever played on a PvP server in SWTOR.  I got "stuck" there because that's what the guild I joined with chose(and *cupcake* it all, they quit the game with in a couple of months, if that).  Other than the occasional gank, I don't know what difference I really saw between PvP and PvE server(though I'll admit SWTOR may not be the best example of a game when it comes to PvP, but that's all I have :P ).  I can't honestly remember if WAR had PvE and PvP servers, but I loved their RvR lakes :D  WoW, I was on a PvE server.  Same for Rift.  
 
So with that out of the way so you know why I'm asking these questions :P
 
What can the Devs do that will make PvP server better in Wildstar?  What should they add?  What should they take away? 
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What can the Devs do that will make PvP server better in Wildstar?  What should they add?  What should they take away? 
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Linking the markets (AH,CX,CREDD) is probably easiest.  If cross-realm raiding was possible the whole mess probably wouldn't have happened in the first place.  Unfortunately those are some fairly high-risk changes, even if they were prioritized it'll mean at least one full testing cycle (SWAG: Q2 patch at the earliest unless it's already in the works).
 
Basic communications with the PvP community is lacking.  DapperDon's post was a fluff piece but it was a total snub of PvP'er's.  This might be a Marketing influence.  Anlath mentioned they like their announcements to have "punch" so they tend to not go into details.  They may be reserving any announcements for the PvP roundtable but as mentioned up-thread they're in the too-little, too-late phase of this boss fight.
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well we're in this situation since October 14th or so. And now Warhound started to go. I'm frustrated because nor Drop 4 nor Drop 5 nor their plan for 2015 has anything that could help the 2 dead servers.
 
That being said they might care. They might not know what to do. But as a product it's a single player game as far as Luminai exiles are concerned. And that's just not worth a monthly fee for me :/
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4. You can always flag yourself for pvp and kill other flagged pvpers on the pve server
 
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			Congrats on having a cancel sub thread open long enough to reach 2 pages. Grats, seriously...longest I've seen yet...awaiting chillia.	
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I know October feels like a really long time, but in a game where they already had a years worth of content planned out (and that was with monthly releases!), have lost a considerable chunk of the dev force, and have had changing priorities since launch, it really is not enough time to come up with what has to be massive sweeping changes to entice people back onto the PVP servers. I'm just not really sure WHAT they can do to accomplish that, it's not a part of gaming that I'm particularly interested in.
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Congrats on having a cancel sub thread open long enough to reach 2 pages. Grats, seriously...longest I've seen yet...awaiting chillia.
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It should be noted here that instanced PVP may still not save the PVP servers.  Only world PVP will save the PVP servers, so even if a huge PVP announcement is made, it still might not be enough.
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Just cancel, and resub when it runs out if you see meaningful changes. Looks like you like PvP. Lots of us are in your boat, and we've been waiting on the town hall dates.
 
It seems Carbine can't produce those dates for us, unfortunately.	
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Congrats on having a cancel sub thread open long enough to reach 2 pages. Grats, seriously...longest I've seen yet...awaiting chillia.
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Maybe, maybe not.  I never really understood the attraction of PvP ruleset servers but I did read a comment somewhere that gave me enough insight to at least wrap my head around it.  Some people just like that sense of danger.  Should there be open world PvP objectives?  Absolutely but why should those be limited to the PvP server?  If for nothing else, varying the server features adds support complexity.
 
Regardless, the person I was responding to asked what the easiest changes were.  Due to the population issues people playing on the PvP servers are punished economically because of the separated markets.  This whole mess started because raid guilds couldn't recruit enough people to defeat the roster boss.  Cross server raids would have prevented the panics.
 
Obviously neither of those changes are going to fix open-world grouping.  That's purely a population issue.  But I think if you stop punishing those who opt for the PvP server people will transfer back.
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I like PvP servers, because if there's an exile farming the mobs I want to kill / doing the world boss I need, I just kill him and continue on.
 
Unfortunately, Wildstar doesn't really have many preferred farming spots.
Nor does it reward credit to the faction that kills the boss, exclusively.
 
Basically Carbine missed the point of a PvP server, unless their goal was to make it so that level 50s could go into starter zones and PvP all over noobs.	
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			You shall be missed, Wildstar needs some major fixes to save the pvp servers. Not just pvp fixes though OPEN WORLD pvp fixes. Wildstar is growing everyday but sadly the pvp servers are not.	
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People are going to get mad but I still say Rift handled it the best. PVP is in Rift but it was known from day one that it would be there for fun. They didn't bother with changes unless things got too out of hand (Damn Mages!). If I was into PVP I wouldn't even Play WoW, Rift or Wildstar. I'd play something where PVP is the sole focus. I wonder if PVP should even be taken on by new MMORPG makers. Maybe, if PVP is the game's focus or they are going to make PVE and PVP truly seperate games where one does not affect the other. MMOPRPGs are niche and PVP is a niche in niche genre just tack it on and be done with it BUT, be up front about it.
 
Good luck where ever you land.	
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			It sucks that everyone is moving from PVP to PVE servers (coughsheeplecough) for some dumb reason but it's pretty silly to unsub because of that. Either find another guild or swap over or better yet, convince your Guildies/Friends that they're stupid for swapping servers, because PvE servers are boring trash.	
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It sucks that everyone is moving from PVP to PVE servers (coughsheeplecough) for some dumb reason but it's pretty silly to unsub because of that. Either find another guild or swap over or better yet, convince your Guildies/Friends that they're stupid for swapping servers, because PvE servers are boring trash.
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			I know how you feel mirta. I've been transfering my alts to the PvE server so I can play with people. My main is guildless now and just sits on the PvP server waiting for it to make a comeback.	
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People are going to get mad but I still say Rift handled it the best.
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I like PvP servers, because if there's an exile farming the mobs I want to kill / doing the world boss I need, I just kill him and continue on.
 
Unfortunately, Wildstar doesn't really have many preferred farming spots.
Nor does it reward credit to the faction that kills the boss, exclusively.
 
Basically Carbine missed the point of a PvP server, unless their goal was to make it so that level 50s could go into starter zones and PvP all over noobs.
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This is one of those rare moments when I completely agree with you. When Blighthaven first dropped, Scorchwing was faction exclusive. This caused a lot of fighting over it and a lot of complaints from people who never should have rolled on a PvP server to begin with. Unfortunately, Carbine listened to the crybabies and put yet another nail in the coffin of PvP servers by making it cooperative. Competition is what drives PvP; what do we have to compete for on PvP servers? Stop treating us like toddlers and take the pads off!
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Well I believe that goes back to the "Treat PvE and PvP as different animals" thing really that has been mentioned countless times for the benefit of both sides. On a PvE server it really makes no sense and with faction imbalance it can and was a major headache, where as on a PVP server you could do something about it. Even with the cross faction tagging it at least generated a spot that got both factions into a conflict which was nice to watch and participate in.
 
I'll simply say this...
 
PvP just is not in a good state and it's been stated countless times with little to no communication on the issue. I could go on and on, but it feels like barking at a wall at this point in regard to PvP. When PvP oriented friends ask me if I recommend Wildstar I can't. As much as I really want to I genuinely can't go "yeah! give it a whirl see how you like it". I can't even say "well this is part isn't done so well, but they're doing X, Y, Z to make it better" like I can with PvE since I've heard little to nothing.	
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			When people ask me about wildstar PvP I just tell them that it has the potential to be awesome but the developers don't care about it so its not worth paying for	
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When people ask me about wildstar PvP I just tell them that it has the potential to be awesome but the developers don't care about it so its not worth paying for
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when people ask me about wildstar i tell them its like wow except the combat is better but nothing works right and the gear doesnt make sense
 
this is a fun game	
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			Sorry to see you go, Mirta. But I also can't blame you for it. I hope you get some enjoyment out of wherever you're headed, and I hope that you'll reconsider this game if they ever manage to actually make PvP servers in this game viable again.	
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			Everyone needs a justification to what they did.Players of WOW need to justify how WOW satisfies them so as to continuing paying for the subscriptions.Players of other MMOs attempted to find a new MMO, eg Wildstar, for the purpose of spending their time on something maybe worthier and somehow turned them down, need to justify how the old games are, and how WS doesn't fit their expectations.If everyone could be competent to make decision independently and objectively without considering everyone's subjective and pre-conditioned opinions,negativities in every places make no impact.And all games will do good.	
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Everyone needs a justification to what they did.
Players of WOW need to justify how WOW satisfies them so as to continuing paying for the subscriptions.
Players of other MMOs attempted to find a new MMO, eg Wildstar, for the purpose of spending their time on something maybe worthier and somehow turned them down, need to justify how the old games are, and how WS doesn't fit their expectations.
 
If everyone could be competent to make decision independently and objectively without considering everyone's subjective and pre-conditioned opinions,
negativities in every places make no impact.
And all games will do good.
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Everyone needs a justification to what they did.
Players of WOW need to justify how WOW satisfies them so as to continuing paying for the subscriptions.
Players of other MMOs attempted to find a new MMO, eg Wildstar, for the purpose of spending their time on something maybe worthier and somehow turned them down, need to justify how the old games are, and how WS doesn't fit their expectations.
 
If everyone could be competent to make decision independently and objectively without considering everyone's subjective and pre-conditioned opinions,
negativities in every places make no impact.
And all games will do good.
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Having fun in a game isn't about objectivity though. If a player isn't getting satisfaction and fun in what they are doing in a game, no amount of looking at that game objectively will keep that player in the game. In the case of OP, she isn't quitting because she is following a herd(if she was following a herd, she would have moved with everyone else to a PvE server :P), she is quitting because the thing that drew her to the game isn't fun and satisfying for her anymore.
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You're half right, but having fun absolutely is objective. The same way you can hate a song the first time you hear it then enjoy it the next time... it's all about perspective. Is this some I get to do, or is it something I have to do? I can assure you not one of us has to play Wildstar, so if you're not having fun, it's all on your own poor decision.
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You're half right, but having fun absolutely is objective. The same way you can hate a song the first time you hear it then enjoy it the next time... it's all about perspective. Is this some I get to do, or is it something I have to do? I can assure you not one of us has to play Wildstar, so if you're not having fun, it's all on your own poor decision.
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Old Man Tek is trying to say that having fun is a choice based on the attitude of the player doing the content.  IE its a choice to either have fun doing X content, or not.
 
You guys are saying that having fun is determined by the content itself, that having fun is just something that happens based on the players reaction to the content they're doing.	
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well we're in this situation since October 14th or so. And now Warhound started to go. I'm frustrated because nor Drop 4 nor Drop 5 nor their plan for 2015 has anything that could help the 2 dead servers.
 
That being said they might care. They might not know what to do. But as a product it's a single player game as far as Luminai exiles are concerned. And that's just not worth a monthly fee for me :/
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...Sorry, now I'm curious. Can you define for me objectively what makes a person have fun, in a way that independent observers can measure and agree upon? "It's all about perspective" is the exact opposite of objectivity.
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I don't know if it will help, but these are the questions I got from people who were more pvp oriented and when answered either decided to try the game later or look elsewhere...
Is there active open world pvp?	Are there open world PvP objectives and or RvR lakes?	Warplots look awesome! Do those happen often?	How gear dependant is PvP? IFthere is PvP gear is it normalized and easy to acquire?	How easy is it to transition from PvP to PvE if I chose to switch my focus?	Am I able to level to cap doing PvP through battlegrounds or general open world PvP?	What are the battleground objectives like?	I'd like to do housing and PvP, but when I looked up information on it I heard you can only get renown from group PvE. Is that true?	I did a 7 day trial, but never got to try PvP, does it only happen at 50?
Those are generally the questions I hear more than once with exception to 8 which someone asked me this morning.	
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I don't know if it will help, but these are the questions I got from people who were more pvp oriented and when answered either decided to try the game later or look elsewhere...
Is there active open world pvp?	Are there open world PvP objectives and or RvR lakes?	Warplots look awesome! Do those happen often?	How gear dependant is PvP? IFthere is PvP gear is it normalized and easy to acquire?	How easy is it to transition from PvP to PvE if I chose to switch my focus?	Am I able to level to cap doing PvP through battlegrounds or general open world PvP?	What are the battleground objectives like?	I'd like to do housing and PvP, but when I looked up information on it I heard you can only get renown from group PvE. Is that true?	I did a 7 day trial, but never got to try PvP, does it only happen at 50?
Those are generally the questions I hear more than once with exception to 8 which someone asked me this morning.
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Old Man Tek is trying to say that having fun is a choice based on the attitude of the player doing the content.  IE its a choice to either have fun doing X content, or not.
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Guys I don't really think that its worth trying to define fun in this thread.
 
What needs to be understood is that some players like challenging content, and others like fun and easy content.  It's important to have something available to both parties.  They're adding a lot more casual content that good players won't bother with specifically for the casual masses they want to pull into this game.
 
Here's the thing, with a good gear ladder, people completing easy content enough should be able to outgear intermediate content to the point that it becomes easy content.  That's what gear progression and a ladder is for.
 
That way, when someone messes up on the first boss of a veteran instance, they don't instantly die and have the opportunity to attempt to interrupt or move out of the way next time.
IT's a population issue, as well.	
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Guys I don't really think that its worth trying to define fun in this thread.
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Hard for me to sympathize with anyone who would quit a game if they enjoy it for any other reason than being on a PvP server.  You just as easily have moved with the rest of your guildmates. Do you know what changes when you go from a PvP to a PvE server?  About nothing. 99.9% of the game stays the same.  That 0.01% of the game that changed is being able to enter PvP combat in the open world, which more people find to be an inconvenience than fun.  If that's so important that nothing else in the game is more important than that, then to each their own I suppose.  But again, i can't sympathize given the other options on the table.  If you think you're making a stand or sending a message by cancelling for that sort of reasoning, please don't kid yourself - you're no matyr, and here's why:
 
The developers gave the players the option to transfer and self congregate, and so they chose for themselves. It would have happened the same in any other MMORPG.  Players want the perceived path of least resistance and to be able to finish their goals in the the most optimal way possible.  If the player balance difference was 5%, given people's ability to exaggerate and blow small deltas out of proportion, the same thing would've happened.  More players = finding groups faster  = more optimal use of game time.  The players chose how the population turned out, not Carbine.	
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How sad! I remember the jovial flirts I sent you way when this game first came out, I admire your strong-willed personality too, I can see why you are a guild leader. Oh well, hopefully they will be able to fix pvp problems after drop 4.
 
Personally I'm hoping for ship battles where we have to board the other factions ship and blow it up!	
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Hard for me to sympathize with anyone who would quit a game if they enjoy it for any other reason than being on a PvP server.  You just as easily have moved with the rest of your guildmates. Do you know what changes when you go from a PvP to a PvE server?  About nothing. 99.9% of the game stays the same.  That 0.01% of the game that changed is being able to enter PvP combat in the open world, which more people find to be an inconvenience than fun.  If that's so important that nothing else in the game is more important than that, then to each their own I suppose.  But again, i can't sympathize given the other options on the table.  If you think you're making a stand or sending a message by cancelling for that sort of reasoning, please don't kid yourself - you're no matyr, and here's why:
 
The developers gave the players the option to transfer and self congregate, and so they chose for themselves. It would have happened the same in any other MMORPG.  Players want the perceived path of least resistance and to be able to finish their goals in the the most optimal way possible.  If the player balance difference was 5%, given people's ability to exaggerate and blow small deltas out of proportion, the same thing would've happened.  More players = finding groups faster  = more optimal use of game time.  The players chose how the population turned out, not Carbine.
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You're half right, but having fun absolutely is objective. The same way you can hate a song the first time you hear it then enjoy it the next time... it's all about perspective. Is this some I get to do, or is it something I have to do? I can assure you not one of us has to play Wildstar, so if you're not having fun, it's all on your own poor decision.
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Hard for me to sympathize with anyone who would quit a game if they enjoy it for any other reason than being on a PvP server.  You just as easily have moved with the rest of your guildmates. Do you know what changes when you go from a PvP to a PvE server?  About nothing. 99.9% of the game stays the same.  That 0.01% of the game that changed is being able to enter PvP combat in the open world, which more people find to be an inconvenience than fun.  If that's so important that nothing else in the game is more important than that, then to each their own I suppose.  But again, i can't sympathize given the other options on the table.  If you think you're making a stand or sending a message by cancelling for that sort of reasoning, please don't kid yourself - you're no matyr, and here's why:
 
The developers gave the players the option to transfer and self congregate, and so they chose for themselves. It would have happened the same in any other MMORPG.  Players want the perceived path of least resistance and to be able to finish their goals in the the most optimal way possible.  If the player balance difference was 5%, given people's ability to exaggerate and blow small deltas out of proportion, the same thing would've happened.  More players = finding groups faster  = more optimal use of game time.  The players chose how the population turned out, not Carbine.
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More utter and complete lunacy. Fun is completely subjective to the point of view of the user. No amount of listening to country music is ever going to make me like it or think it is "fun" to listen to.
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...Now I'm even more confused. You think that whether or not I find something fun is something I choose? I find that statement very odd.
 
My mood can influence whether or not I'm having fun with something, but my mood isn't the sole determinant of what I find fun. Except during relatively extreme and obvious moods, it's not even a major determinant of what I find fun. And even if it was, I don't choose my mood like I have a closet full of moods and I decide which one I'm going to wear today.
 
Do you mean this in the sense of "oh, if you just have an open mind and try something new, you might like it" or do you mean this in the sense of "if you just keep telling yourself you like something, sooner or later you will!"?
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I remember some great moments, guildie shouting out in chat that a few dominion are ganking and if someone wants to come and help. 10 minutes later we were having a guild vs guild fight in whiteville with 60 players. Oh and the fighting over brightwing when they hadn't "fix" him were glorious. Actually about 3 weeks ago we had some fights in the Defile at the world boss walking in the middle, only with about 30 players in total but it still as fun.
 
Those are all things we will be missing on the PvE server, sure you can stage fights but what is the fun in that?	
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I remember some great moments, guildie shouting out in chat that a few dominion are ganking and if someone wants to come and help. 10 minutes later we were having a guild vs guild fight in whiteville with 60 players. Oh and the fighting over brightwing when they hadn't "fix" him were glorious. Actually about 3 weeks ago we had some fights in the Defile at the world boss walking in the middle, only with about 30 players in total but it still as fun.
 
Those are all things we will be missing on the PvE server, sure you can stage fights but what is the fun in that?
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You do get to choose, though. Unless you're very weak and have no control over your emotions. Mood and perspective are everything... to a point (I couldn't sit in a chair getting puched all day thinking 'this is fun!') But you're being asked to play a video game. You're not being forced to. And if you're not having fun, you move on or change your perspective.
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The red is where you repeat your point, the orange is where you make it clear that even you don't think the part in red is true. The ability to alter mood and perspective can shift where a person is on that continuum to some extent, but I feel pretty comfortable with the idea that even you lose the ability to simply decide something is fun with activities considerably less taxing than "sitting in a chair getting punched all day".
 
And don't worry. The people who aren't having enough fun to justify the cost of the game are well aware that they can move on. They have, in large numbers.
 
Given that the game's management have been actively trying to recapture players who left by pursuing a third option of "find out why people leave, try to improve it, and ask them to give it another shot", I find it funny that so many people on these forums persist in a "love it or leave it" mentality.
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			Mirta I really hope you find what you're looking for. Thank you for staying with us on Luminai as long as you could <3 I will miss seeying you and the unknowns around and hope you will someday return to Nexus./salute	
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OP-
 
Iam on the same boat as you. iam very close to unsubing iam paying for nothing really i log in 2 times a week to raid wiht no incentives for itemization, no pvp, if it werent for the good people in my guild i would have stopped my sub- they are paying with credd- but iam not, i dotn like to log in to a game with no incentives todo.
 
drop 4 dosent seem itll change it much. and their long content times leaves a sour taste on my mouse...	
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The red is where you repeat your point, the orange is where you make it clear that even you don't think the part in red is true. The ability to alter mood and perspective can shift where a person is on that continuum to some extent, but I feel pretty comfortable with the idea that even you lose the ability to simply decide something is fun with activities considerably less taxing than "sitting in a chair getting punched all day".
 
And don't worry. The people who aren't having enough fun to justify the cost of the game are well aware that they can move on. They have, in large numbers.
 
Given that the game's management have been actively trying to recapture players who left by pursuing a third option of "find out why people leave, try to improve it, and ask them to give it another shot", I find it funny that so many people on these forums persist in a "love it or leave it" mentality.
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I agree and it should be obvious, this isn't a love-it-or-leave-it kind of problem.  It's not art style or game theme.  Obviously, Carbine wanted PVP servers and those servers are at a distinct disadvantage without the benefit of their main draw.  The idea of, "Well, just go out and World PVP" kind of works on Warhound, but Luminae is in such dire straits reportedly that it isn't even really applicable there.  Who wants to suffer the lesser supplied CX and the smaller raiding pool for world PVP that doesn't happen?
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When you do /who you will be lucky to get 10 people on prime time
The CX is simply empty 
When it comes to Luminai, it's not a viable place to play an MMO on it anymore. Little things like cross server CX and Raids might have helped but most if not all the damage was done with the first free transfers.
I'm still wondering why they have ever offered them and also only 1 way...
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and their long content times leaves a sour taste on my mouse...
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Right. I don't enjoy everything. And those things I can't bring myself to enjoy, I avoid. So that begs the question: if you feel like you are suffering through this game then why do you remain? There are other games out there with the things you're looking for, so why try to destroy the things that are here for others?
 
Let me reiterrate; I know PvP is in a bad state and absolutely needs some changing. Do I say that for me? No. I say that for the PvPers who expected PvP on a PvP server. There used to be things to fight over on PvP servers, but because of all the whining on PvE servers that the two factions were still having conflicts, as they should be, Mirta's version of the game was destroyed.
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As a non-PVP player with zero experience in PVP, maybe it's not my place to say any of this, but I feel a lot of the reason there's a population issue is because of commentary regarding the dire straights of the game, or declaring it a "dead/dying" game. As a potential customer, the last thing you want to hear from a gaming community is how bad a state a game is in, especially when said game is going to require a subscription investment or copious amounts of time to invest in the play-to-pay formula (nothing wrong with that either, imo). Frankly, I haven't been able to get anyone to even try this game, because all they see are commentary about the game's collapse. It's turning into a self-fulfilling prophecy, and that's pretty unfortunate. 
 
That doesn't mean there shouldn't be constructive criticism on how to improve the state of PVP interactions, but, just from my experiences in being a returning player, and from trying to get people to play this game in the past, it's usually been questions about rumors regarding how horrible population control is, or how PVP isn't worth it. And when PVP is a draw, why would you pay for something current customers say is so extraordinarily poor that it's not even worth playing this game? 
 
That's not to call anyone out as a relative newbie, but when you change the tone, you'd be surprised. That's what sucked me back into the game. I stayed away for months, exclusively because of negative press regarding the population, and the constant debate over "harcore" v "casual" (which is a misdirect, c'mon, guys. Not everyone on PVE servers is looking for a mind-numbingly easy experience they can zone out in. I play for the difficulty, and put myself in crappy situations just to make it harder, like wandering into zones I'm dramatically under-leveled for. I accidentally wandered into a Shiphand I was under-leveled for TWICE, and that made my experience enjoyable). On the same face, I personally don't like PVP culture, as I feel it interferes with my ability to explore and experience story as a solo unit, without group protection to protect me from other groups of players on the hunt. That's my personal pref, though, and has really no reflection on what PVP itself should be.
 
When I was looking at coming back to Wildstar, though, that "casuals just want it easy, ugh!" mentality was pretty off-putting. I don't think that's true, so much as some people may want more accessibility, and a more gradual ramping of difficulty at the beginning of the game (it does ramp up pretty significantly if you're new to RPGs, or even just using a keyboard instead of a controller. I got frustrated for a while because of my own technical limitations at the start, and I think the training dungeon that everyone's been mentioning will go a long way towards alleviating some early-experience pain for people like me, who never have used a keyboard as a controller, and need practice with guidance). I don't think it's asking too much for there to be a more gradual incline of difficulty, or at least a little more guidance on utilizing the skills the game has to offer. A better tutorial before you're on Nexus would have resolved a lot of the cries for "the game is too hard!", imo. 0-o Because the game really isn't that hard on its face, but could use a little work towards being more user-friendly for newer players who aren't coming from other MMOs. /my 2cents. 
 
Also, adding a little more rewarding content towards the beginning of the game would be nice. It was a little dry for me, and I felt like more of a glorified errand boy. While I loved the world building behind the start of the game (it went a long way for atmosphere on the Dominion side), the Warbot in Levian Bay was a *cupcake*-ing cake walk, even the first time I played it as a total MMO newbie. Comparing that to my experiences in a Shiphand Solo, it wasn't very rewarding or engaging, and the pacing of the battle could have been tuned finer to make it feel like you were at Levian Bay for something more than a segway onto Nexus. I bring that up, because when that's your first experience with the game, while the story sucked me in, the early gameplay left much to be desired in terms of work-reward payoff, and I left feeling pretty unaccomplished compared to my later experiences in the game. /DOH, that's enough about that. 
 
 
So, as for the problem with PVP servers, I feel like a couple of things could help make it more appealing, even for people who are not pre-disposed to enjoy PVP (like meee!), and these are just my newbie suggestions here: 
 
1) Change your tone. Make PVP seem like it's a rewarding experience that's worth having, and focus on the positive aspects of it as opposed to how god-awful populations are, or how casual people are ruining the game for everyone. Foster an environment of "We are all players", and I think you'll be surprised to see the population will probably improve a little bit faster. "Us" V. "Them" shouldn't be about player skill level or requests from players for content on either the PVP, PVE, or Endgame side. Save that for blowing up Exiles /jk. 
 
2) If PVP had more visible rewards for participation, it might be more appealing. I'm not in the camp that the PVE and PVP experiences should be the same, and if PVP had its own rewards, I think it'd be a big draw. Exclusive items for exclusive portions of gameplay are totally appealing, and might even serve to get people who aren't predisposed to PVP gameplay to at least try it out. If you can get someone to try it, they might even like it, and when people like doing something, they do it more. 
 
3) PVP-Player Missions. Given I don't play PVP, I don't know if this exists, so if it does, or if I'm redundant, please ignore me. But if the only rewarding portion of PVP is that you can be killed in the open-world, that's a pretty "meh" reward, because I've been killed taking a sip of water because a mob spawned behind me when I thought I was safe crouching in the bushes of Ellevar on a mountain top. Nevermind the number of times I've misjudged a route I thought would be a safe road and ran into 6 mobs chasing me across Ellevar. Ha. Anyway, I feel like applying a mission mindset to PVP would be a big draw. I know I'd be more inclined to try it if there were mission-exclusives with storyline components and objectives like "invade x-Dominion/Exile territory", or "kill x-number of x-faction". Even scouting missions with some kind of mechanic to log player observations of opposing factions would be cool. It'd make it feel like there was more of a reason to be fighting than just because the story-mandates, and would go a long way towards making PVP immersive. Right now, it's not an experience I need to be immersed in the game, but if you made it so there were mechanics and reasons to go out of your way and have PVP interactions, I know I'd be there in a heart beat! Hell, even a Capture the Flag mini-game of some kind would be awesome. Just sayin'. Giving players goals is powerful, and when there are less or no goals other than arbitrary ones associated with a mechanic, don't be surprised when not everyone uses said mechanic. 
 
4) Some kind of item for formulating NPC parties would be nice. Maybe this is just me, the friendless Wildstar player with no guild or group or RL friends willing to play this game, but one thing that keeps me away from trying a PVP server is protection from groups, and a negative experience with PVP in the past (the only MMO I ever played prior to this was an attempt at Runescape when I was a silly little middle schooler). It isn't enjoyable for me to be ambushed by a group of an opposing faction, and then subsequently slaughtered without any real defense. It'd be nice if there was some way to supplement a group, so that players like me, who don't -have- a group to roll with on this game (yet!), could explore the open-world with a little more security. As anyone knows, AI are usually quite dumb, so I really don't think it would dumb down your gameplay or make it easier than it already is. If anything, something like that would provide a false sense of security for players just starting out until they can find a guild to hang out in, you know? Again, make stuff accessible and appealing, and I'm sure people will try it, even people who haven't tried it before. 
 
 
If your only focus is to bring PVP-only players, or people already predisposed to enjoy it, into PVP, your cause is doomed. There is only so much you can do to appeal to an exclusive niche, and sometimes you need to open the doors to people who aren't a part of that niche, but are willing to give it a try, if only for the sake of experimentation. For the umphteen-thousandth time, if you can get someone to try it, they may like it, and they might be more inclined to stay, especially if PVP has its own rewards system and unique gameplay experiences that set it apart from a PVE experience. 
 
As for the server issue, I don't know what the answer is. Personally, I don't get the server distinction given you can flag yourself in the open world for PVP on a PVE server, and thus experience PVP if more players were actually willing to engage in it on said server. I like the flag system, because it offers options, which means if I don't feel like getting my butt kicked by other players because I'm exploring, I don't have to have my butt kicked, which is why I do PVE. If there was a meaningful way to engage in cross-server play without a transfer (a friend told me WoW has something like this, and the only difference is that you can't trade with each other? I don't know if that's true or not...) that might go a long way, as I'd be inclined to occasionally jump into a PVP zone if it wasn't a permanent commitment to said zone. That might even just alleviate some of the strain on the population by just drawing PVE players, even temporarily, into the PVP server to engage in PVP gameplay. 
 
So... Uh. Wall over. I've read multiple of these threads, and really just thought giving a newbie perspective might be beneficial, for better or worse, given I've seen a lot of the same points rehashed continuously back and forth. /not-helpful Chua = not-helpful?	
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-snip-
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If you're asking the OP, she's not staying. She's leaving. 
If you're asking me, I enjoy many things about the game. There are things I definitely do not enjoy about it at all, and there are things that I don't personally care about one way or another outside of the statement that I think they drive out far more people than they retain. To the extent that things can be left alone for those who enjoy them while alternate paths to enjoyment can be created for everyone else, I'm fine with that.
 
So if you were talking to either of us, your question is completely irrelevant. And if you weren't, it's not clear who you were talking to.
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-snip-
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			"Populations have a way of expanding when talk doesn't include hyperbole like "this game is dead, and servers are ghost town""Luminai at this very second had exactly 23 people online. It's primetime. I don't know what to call that honestly if ghost town for that is somehow a hyperbole. 	
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			Thought you quit? Or are you just trolling?	
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"Populations have a way of expanding when talk doesn't include hyperbole like "this game is dead, and servers are ghost town""
 
Luminai at this very second had exactly 23 people online. It's primetime. I don't know what to call that honestly if ghost town for that is somehow a hyperbole. 
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 @Evade
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EDIT: to anyone interested my sub expires on like February 2nd, so I'll drop by here sometimes up until that date.
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 @Evade
 
@VicVan that's what /who comes up and add ons for finding people come up with a similar amount :/ majority of those are level 1s to 7s. 
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			50 is the count limit, so everything below that should be accurate.	
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50 is the count limit, so everything below that should be accurate.
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"Populations have a way of expanding when talk doesn't include hyperbole like "this game is dead, and servers are ghost town""
 
Luminai at this very second had exactly 23 people online. It's primetime. I don't know what to call that honestly if ghost town for that is somehow a hyperbole. 
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Accurate to a certain extent. Not entirely sure if it's right but if it never comes up with anything close to 50 (hasn't in months on luminai), then that's an issue.
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Just made some screenshots
 
 
So 63 online on the whole server and so far Carbine has only said that the PvP servers are fine...	
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You can call it whatever you want, but referring to the population problem isn't going to do anything to bring new players into your server. That doesn't mean you can't reference that it's not as active as it could possibly be, or as active as other MMOs are, but maybe try focusing on the positive aspects of your server. Why should someone play on Luminai? What benefits are there to being a member of that server that would justify playing on it? If you project the positive aspects of your community, it's more likely to grow than if you rag on it and beat it down with a hammer.
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The problem is that it simply isn't viable at the moment, the CX is empty and the reason to play on a PvP server is the open world pvp and you need players for that.
Then there is Carbine saying that everything is fine population wise...
 
So pelase tell me how you can say anything positive?
Well you do get a server for almost you alone but I don't think that is positive though.
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The problem is that it simply isn't viable at the moment, the CX is empty and the reason to play on a PvP server is the open world pvp and you need players for that.
Then there is Carbine saying that everything is fine population wise...
 
So pelase tell me how you can say anything positive?
Well you do get a server for almost you alone but I don't think that is positive though.
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the reason why everything what you're saying is so frustrating is because I worked 24/7 for 2 full months to have it. And everyone kept on telling me "oh the problem persists? You're not doing enough work!". Well there's only so much you can do when there's two guilds on the server, massive pvp events that you can organize are 10 people from both sides max, when in order to earn money or buy gear you need to exploit by sending alts backwards and forwards to Jabbit, when at first you could do 20 person dailies to gain rep once a week and later not at all. 
 
So be my guest. Pick Luminai exile side, make a guild, try to assemble a community and try to pull people in. Vanelope is very positive, but... They're the only guild left on the server. And it's not like it isn't hard on them too. 
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Find something positive about your server. Is it the community that exists there? If there isn't one, be the start of it, and start organizing community events.
 
 
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the reason why everything what you're saying is so frustrating is because I worked 24/7 for 2 full months to have it. And everyone kept on telling me "oh the problem persists? You're not doing enough work!". Well there's only so much you can do when there's two guilds on the server, massive pvp events that you can organize are 10 people from both sides max, when in order to earn money or buy gear you need to exploit by sending alts backwards and forwards to Jabbit, when at first you could do 20 person dailies to gain rep once a week and later not at all. 
 
So be my guest. Pick Luminai exile side, make a guild, try to assemble a community and try to pull people in. Vanelope is very positive, but... They're the only guild left on the server. And it's not like it isn't hard on them too. If you will succeed then more power to you. Otherwise the game becomes a job and how futile your efforts are will eventually just depress you.
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"We work hard as a community to organize events so that everyone can have a good time, even if the events are small. We have fun." 
 
OR
 
"The servers are empty, and no one is ever playing. Everyone is leaving, and it's just not fun". 
 
I feel like I've made my point, and there's really no point in arguing over it, but I think it's pretty reasonable to say the tone of a conversation about a server, a game, or a community has a lot to do with why people might not be subscribing or staying. Image is everything, and right now, the image looks pretty bleak because that's what is presented to the public. That doesn't mean you or anyone else isn't working hard to build a community there, but certainly no one's talking about it or making it seem like there's even a sliver of one there. 
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We did get a few announcements on the PVP side (PVP dailies being the band-aid solution) coming this drop.  Also, we are apparently getting a detailed report on the upcoming features and intentions regarding PVP for Drop 4 and Drop 5.  That should be coming in a week to a week-and-a-half, so that the community has it in hand before Bazeleel's PVP roundtable with the devs on the 3rd of February.
 
I suppose we'll see what's in the future.
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But that is instance PvP, not open world PvP.
PvPers that mostly did arena and battlegrounds have already moved to Jabbit quite some time ago because it was easier to find a partner there with more players.
They might return to the PvP server if the population is better but so far nothing from Carbine to improve that.
 
@Doodlesaurus
We all get it what you are saying, approach it with a positive angle. We have been doing that for the last 3 months and it's disheartening to see your effort go down in vain. We even asked Carbines help for some of the things we were trying to do for the players on luminai, they never even responded.
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			All your issues can be solved on the PVE server. Open World pvp is pointless. Stop being so stubborn and take the free transfer.	
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