97651-update-notes-7162014

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== Content ==
			
Characters
Items
When moving a Soulbind-On-Equip item in your inventory, the "Confirm soulbind" dialog will now only appear if the item would become soulbound.
Items transferred to the Guild bank now properly validate uniqueness.
Classes Stalker
AbilitiesShred should now deal damage as intended.Esper 
AbilitiesVisual effects should once again show up when casting "Crush"PvP General
 
Gear in the buyback list now counts towards the gear score when queuing up for PvP matches. 
Arenas
 
General
 
The Deserter debuff now properly applies to AFK players who go AFK in an Arena. 
Economy Loot
Several rewards from Stormtalon's Lair, Kel Voreth, and Skullcano normal mode have been increased in item level.
Several rewards from Hycrest, Astrovoid, War of the Wilds, Siege of Tempest Refuge, Crimelords of Whitevale and Malgrave Trail have been increased in item level and rarity.
Bosses in Stormtalon's Lair, Kel Voreth and Skullcano normal mode will now drop at least 2 items, instead of 1, when defeated.
Reward points in Hycrest, Astrovoid, War of the Wilds, Siege of Tempest Refuge, Crimelords of Whitevale and Malgrave Trail normal mode will now drop at least 2 items, instead of 1, upon completion.
Dungeons and Adventures no longer have unique rewards on Bronze, Silver and Gold Medal rewards. 
Bronze Medal will no longer sometimes award good-quality loot. 
All excellent-quality and superb-quality items that were previously only available on the Silver and Gold Medals are now available from the final boss.
Medals now also multiply the amount of money awarded from the final encounter:No Medal - 100% money reward
Bronze Medal - 150% money reward
Silver Medal - 200% money reward
Gold Medal - 250% money reward
Medal rewards now confer additional loot rolls on an instance-wide loot table. Each of these rolls has a flat bonus chance to select from the final boss's superb item list. 
The reward structure is now as follows:No Medal: 1 roll on the final boss table
Bronze Medal: 1 roll on the final boss table, 1 roll on an instance-wide loot table
Silver Medal: 1 roll on the final boss table, 2 rolls on an instance-wide loot table
Gold Medal: 1 roll on the final boss table, 3 rolls on an instance-wide loot table
AMP Power Upgrade and Ability Tier Point Unlock are now more likely to drop in World Loot.	
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			YES	
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			OMG! <3	
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			The medal patch, yay?	
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Thanks!
 
Wonder how the new lootsystem will change things...
 
When will loot "drop" for War of the Wilds? When the Giant Moodie dies?
Will Malgrave Trail still award 2 rolls on the final boss table?	
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			while i was a bit disappointed last week, for not getting any updates, this week so far has been awesome! thanks a lot :D nice patches!	
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			So glad that the medal reward change is implemented now. I haven't even gotten to 50 and I've already had people gearing up for the "gold or gtfo" mentality.	
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			Thank u god !! <3	
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			Awesome....    Fingers crossed for more completions	
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			Does anyone know if the amp drop adjustment for dungeon went live? It was slated in the bug forum to be on 7/15 patch and is classified as fixed but wasn't in patch notes so the answer seems kinda vague.	
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For what it's worth, due to the speed that this hotfix came together we don't have the localized notes just yet. They should be posted later today (EU time) tonight (PDT). 
 
Thank ya!	
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For what it's worth, due to the speed that this hotfix came together we don't have the localized notes just yet. They should be posted later today (EU time) tonight (PDT). 
 
Thank ya!
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So glad that the medal reward change is implemented now. I haven't even gotten to 50 and I've already had people gearing up for the "gold or gtfo" mentality.
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dont care still love you
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			So much win!	
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			this is great! thanks a bunch big cheese	
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			is it only for normal mode ? or also for veteran ? 	
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All i can say is I LOVE YOU GUYS SO MUCH NOW , 
 
P.S. No more server lag issues please .	
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So glad that the medal reward change is implemented now. I haven't even gotten to 50 and I've already had people gearing up for the "gold or gtfo" mentality.
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			Finally can say good job.	
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Hey glad to see a quick hotfix :)
 
By the way, every challenge related achievement seems to only count challenges that you get Gold only for the *first time* you start the challenge. Is this is intended ?	
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Not sure where people get the idea that NOT going for Gold is fine. If you're not aiming for the best, why even do vets. The changes made it a bit more user friendly but once again, gold will always be what you want in order to truly be successful.
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is it only for normal mode ? or also for veteran ? 
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			That is nice. What about Sanctuary of the Sword maiden?...See no changes in this compared to other dungeons, could it been left out the patch notes or just not looked in to 	
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That is all I have to say about this.	
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			Of course this comes out just as I go on hols for 3 weeks!  Look forward to picking up some sweet Dungeon loot when I'm back! 	
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Several rewards from Hycrest, Astrovoid, War of the Wilds, Siege of Tempest Refuge, Crimelords of Whitevale and Malgrave Trail have been increased in item level and rarity.
Does this also apply to the normal mode versions of the instance? If not, does this mean that people will have to re-gear themselves with the higher Item level loot that will now drop from veteran adventures?
 	
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If you are aiming to max out rep it's faster to go for bronze over and over
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All i can say is I LOVE YOU GUYS SO MUCH NOW , 
 
P.S. No more server lag issues please .
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Several rewards from Hycrest, Astrovoid, War of the Wilds, Siege of Tempest Refuge, Crimelords of Whitevale and Malgrave Trail have been increased in item level and rarity.Does this also apply to the normal mode versions of the instance? If not, does this mean that people will have to re-gear themselves with the higher Item level loot that will now drop from veteran adventures?
 
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			Now that we have someone posting here i got a question.Are there Info on changes for Spellslinger and Stalker like you did for Warr,Medic and Esper?	
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			Awesome, thank you for this.	
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Server lag should be fixed after the patches last night and tonight, let me know if you experience something to the contrary.
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will all these pvp boxes i've been saving have a higher chance for AMP/Abilit pt drops now? or are they grandfathered into the old, LOW droprate?
 
thanks	
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Dungeons and Adventures no longer have unique rewards on Bronze, Silver and Gold Medal rewards. 
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will all these pvp boxes i've been saving have a higher chance for AMP/Abilit pt drops now? or are they grandfathered into the old, LOW droprate?
 
thanks
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			Thank you Carbine. 	
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			I love you guys.	
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			Sweet Up next fixing arena XD	
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			Given that we're not getting Australian servers could the Australian realms at least get localised patching? Your patch time is pretty well exactly when we would want to play assuming people who work/go to school.	
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Economy
 
Loot
Several rewards from Stormtalon's Lair, Kel Voreth, and Skullcano normal mode have been increased in item level.
Several rewards from Hycrest, Astrovoid, War of the Wilds, Siege of Tempest Refuge, Crimelords of Whitevale and Malgrave Trail have been increased in item level and rarity.
 
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			Sanctuary of the Sword maiden?	
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			Great move on doing something like this so soon, Carbine! The community asked for a solution like this & you came through for us.Time to start testing this! ;)	
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			Perfect timing Carbine, just got the rep and key, and starting my silver runs for adventures and dungeons later today! And now I dont have to deal with the "Gold or gtfo" mentality!	
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Reward points in Hycrest, Astrovoid, War of the Wilds, Siege of Tempest Refuge, Crimelords of Whitevale and Malgrave Trail normal mode will now drop at least 2 items, instead of 1, upon completion. 
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What exactly is a reward point? Like when a challenge is completed?
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Awesome!
 
 
Lining up Vet's to test it out :D
 
 
Fun times.
 
 
 
*EDIT*
 
 
IT SUCKS THAT YOU CAN GET 5 BLUES ON A GOLD RUN. NOT EVEN 1 PURPLE?
 
That's CRAP.
 
 
*2nd EDIT*
 
Ok the change is good, and i like it, 10g for a gold run, cool.
 
BUT please make it so at LEAST 1 purple drops, because out of the 3 Gold runs (2 wotw / 1 crimelords)
 
In 2 of the runs 0 of the drops were purple (except primal pattern but that doesn't count)
 
and in the 3rd run 1 was purple.
 
 
 
*3rd edit*
 
I like the change because items that would never drop in the past (Malgrave trail silver rewards, DPS Medic BiS pre raid for example) are now part of the loot table, this is a good thing.
 
Going back to test.	
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As someone who has personally gone from previously being a raider at a server first level for a few years in another game to this game and being completely casual i welcome this change for what was already easy epics to welfare epics.  Not complaining mind you since i dont plan to ever raid in this game and i did find the rage quit / disband at the first sign of trouble annoying, but i always found it odd that epic loot dropped at the end of the entry lvl "elder" content. Those epics are now the equivalent of a participation medal lol.
 
Seriously though anyone who complains about gearing up needs to be slapped.  I hit 50 last friday (been playing since headstart) and in basically 5 days of maybe 4-5 hours in spurts a day im already almost completely geared out in 5-6 epics and then lvl 50 vet dung gear (correctly stat'd gear for my class not just using sh*t cause its a higher ilvl).  At least the attunement is somewhat challenging but even that i see getting nerfed soon.  Your people that cried about gearing up (lol) will now cry about gold for the vet dungeons.	
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DAT PATCH !!!
 
Thank you guys !	
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			hm	
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MUCH <3
but please get rid of the bind on equip thingo when moving items...
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As someone who has personally gone from previously being a raider at a server first level for a few years in another game to this game and being completely casual i welcome this change for what was already easy epics to welfare epics.  Not complaining mind you since i dont plan to ever raid in this game and i did find the rage quit / disband at the first sign of trouble annoying, but i always found it odd that epic loot dropped at the end of the entry lvl "elder" content. Those epics are now the equivalent of a participation medal lol.
 
 
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you mean this?
 
When moving a Soulbind-On-Equip item in your inventory, the "Confirm soulbind" dialog will now only appear if the item would become soulbound. 
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As for now my game is super broken and dont know what too do...
 
I mentioned yesterday that I had ui problems where text bubbles where invisible and certain dialouges with npcs did not show text at all also Mission tab not showing progress or description.
 
Downloaded this updated logged in today and saw I had the same problems as yesterday but now I cant event talk to some npc.
 
Iam in blighthaven Proffessor Morrison has a green sign over him as if I could talk to him and complete a mission click nothing....Same with bounty board its show a "!" on it click does not even come up with any option at all :(	
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Characters
Items
When moving a Soulbind-On-Equip item in your inventory, the "Confirm soulbind" dialog will now only appear if the item would become soulbound. 
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The drop rate on Amp/Tier points from PvP bags was not changed.
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hate to break it to you carbine, but the new loots in dungeons and adventures are super broken.
 
i can confirm, without a doubt, that gold in a dungeon and adventure will now sometimes reward no purples at all. infact, no matter what medal you get, you may not get any purples. its as if now the loot table is basically just anything that drops in the instance. no guaranteed purples from gold at all.
 
this is not how it is supposed to work....	
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			Just did a quick WotW run to check out the new loot changes. We got gold but we only got three blue items and a Partial Primal Pattern drop. Does the partial primal pattern count as a drop from the final boss loot table or is something wrong?	
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I like the dungeon changes.
Not the adventure changes.
 
Gold in dungeons is super hard, while gold in adventures is super easy.	
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All excellent-quality and superb-quality items that were previously only available on the Silver and Gold Medals are now available from the final boss
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Did a gold Malgrave trail.  Final boss in Ubo dropped the same stuff he's always dropped.  No epic awarded for the medal, 3x trash blues.
 
Again... no epic awarded for gold run.
 
It appears adventures have gone from "gold or nothing" to "why bother at all"	
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The note specifically states all blue and purple gear for silver and gold. So yes, it is working as intended.
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			OMG possible trigger fingers!!!	
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			this is going to make my engineer really upset.... because I will be playing my Stalker alot more now that PUGs will be more likely to actually complete. Thanks carbine! I was waiting for this!	
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			Holy...Wasn't expecting the medal patch so soon... new content at the earliest.Sounds like its having some 'issues' or some clarification would be nice about the system working (like it HAVING a chance to drop a superior item vs. guaranteed one per run) but at the rate things have been getting fixed, I assume this isn't working QUITE as intended yet.  I expect a hotfix for it sometime later today/tommorow before it gets abit outta hand..	
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			Just did siege and got 3 blues no epic ... lol ?	
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The note specifically states all blue and purple gear for silver and gold. So yes, it is working as intended.
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			Finished a Veteran Malgrave on Gold, no purple loot. Three blues on last boss, GG. Pretty sure given the option we'd like at least one gaurenteed purple rather than a chance and a bunch of blues.	
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Same here.
 
No purple by achieving Goldrun in Tempest Refuge.
Some fols of my guild were not rewarded any purple either after MT gold and WoTW gold.	
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Sanctuary of the Sword maiden?
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Economy
 
Loot
Several rewards from Stormtalon's Lair, Kel Voreth, and Skullcano normal mode have been increased in item level.
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			Keep up the good job. Thank you for all hotfixes etc.	
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Expectation: All runs will now award a guaranteed epic item, which was previously a gold medal requirement.
 
Reality: All runs will now have a very LOW chance for an epic item, and your performance only has a slight impact on this.
 
To be fair, this will only deter people from doing adventures at all. If doing adventures with gold was easy for you earlier, you will now have a smaller incentive to do adventures anymore because there will be no guaranteed epics anymore, and this is what most people were doing adventures for.	
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			I think our perception of the loot system was that we would still retain our epics for gold with a chance to receive additional epics or blues based upon performance.  The new loot system actually disincentivizes people.  I'm so confused how this change made it through.	
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I sure am I glad I got my needed epics from the adventures before this patch.
Not point in grinding them anymore.	
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I think our perception of the loot system was that we would still retain our epics for gold with a chance to receive additional epics or blues based upon performance.  The new loot system actually disincentivizes people.  I'm so confused how this change made it through.
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They never garanteed epics for gold medals in the new system... how can so many people be shocked now?
 
Pay attention while reading.	
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			Just ran a quick Crimelords as well, Gold with only blue drops, not seen a epic drop yet since the new patch.	
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They never garanteed epics for gold medals in the new system... how can so many people be shocked now?
 
Pay attention while reading.
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no reason to run adventures at all now....
 
and can you imagine running a gold dungeon and getting no epics? well, that is a reality now.	
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			Regardless if we read it right or not, this is broken. You CANNOT punish people for getting a gold medal. Ever. When we got a gold and received an epic it was a reward, to take that reward away from us now most of the time is punishing us.	
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			Guys...... Where is the Desert on arenas? Look all ppl left arenas to boost! If u introducing the desert in arenas, mb a lot part of booster go out! Come un ! It's just a little fix! :S	
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I checked around a little ingame about my problems I mentioned here in past post about missing ui,missing text in quest and dialouges.
 
What I found out its mainly in Blighthaven this exist.. I switched Zones and found out that in other Zones my UI worked perfectly no missing mission description or missing UI.
So for some reason all is messed up for me ONLY in Blighthaven...
 
So Iam probably gonna stay away  from Blightaven for a while til I know whatever is causing this is fixed.	
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you cannot  not give epics for perfect runs. that is what gold is.... a perfect run. you did everything that was asked of you. that means a reward. you cannot take that away.
 
the fact that you could work so hard to gold dungeons and not get anything of worth..... what? that doesnt even make sense carbine. put guaranteed epics back in for gold, or you are just going to lose all your players. people will not continue to run dungeons for nothing.	
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Carbine, you need to remove the blue loot from *every single final boss* in all dungeons, raids, and Adventures to fix this. So your system will work. Leaving only the epics in their loot table.
 
 I need at least ONE reason to run Dungeons and Adventures. Currently, there aren't any as of this patch.
 
I don't need 3 blues for Gold performance.
 
#RNGOP	
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PvP
 
General
 
Gear in the buyback list now counts towards the gear score when queuing up for PvP matches. 
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I am with most people with this new loot system.. Can Carbine please explain whats the point in doing any Adventures/Dungeons now? just removed the fun out of the game by making the loot even worse than what it was, i really hope this is a bug, if not this was a really bad choice you made.
 
Gold should atleast give us epic drops, Bronze/Silver can give blue's but still have a chance to drop epics as well.	
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			Thanks, Carbine.  Love the medal change.	
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To clarify;
 
The change is intentional. Completing a Gold Run no longer *guarantees* an Epic Drop. Instead the medal will give you more chances to roll on the instance loot table, which has a wide list of items including Blue, and Purple item.
 
So, you beat the Dungeon/Adventure on ANY difficulty = 1 roll on the Bosses loot table = Chance for Epics and Superiors (Blues) 
You get Bronze = one roll on the instance loot table (Again, range of items, including Epics). Silver you get two rolls and Gold you get three rolls.
 
In theory, a group could beat a Dungeon/Adventure on Gold and get four Epic Items drop. Equally they can have four Blue items drop. It's RNG.
 
The intent of this change was not to make getting Epics easier, but to stop players from disbanding as soon as they failed to meet Gold requirements. Now, every group has a chance of getting an Epic item for just defeating the boss despite the medal they earn, but can get MORE epic items if they perform well.
 
That's the explanation, we'll make sure to pass your feedback to Timetraveller and the Content team on this, but I can't say if anything is going to change.	
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			This "hardcore" game is very quickly being turned over to the casuals. Grats baddies, you got your short Q times against 1800 teams in BGs and Arenas last week, this week you get to ruin loot tables for everyone! "Gold or GTFO" > "Give it to me now!" Can't wait til these idiots hit the raid scene... GL finishing your attunements.	
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That's funny how people claim they don't get any epic in gold dungeons.
When you are doing gold dungeons, you generally don't really need the gear from there.
While when doing bronze/silver, you have now a chance to get an epic and you never had the chance before.	
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			Right now adventures don't drop the 'Final boss' drop.  So it's only 3 drops as opposed to the '4' for gold... I would assume this is a bug.	
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			I just want to know more about the AMP and Ability Point Drop changes.  Is it just any level 50 area or is it tied to somewhere?  How much of a percent change is it.  We talking .01% chance level where before it was like .00001% chance.  If it is still really low we are still just going to have to buy most of them.  The change is not really clear what you did except they will at least drop now in the world compared to no one ever seeing one drop. 	
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The previous loot system wasn't bad, it just discouraged individuals from completion of adventures once gold was lost.   The change actually punishes players that could previously achieve gold consistently, because it now reduces the chance that they will see the intended item dramatically.  Understand, I think most individuals perceived they would still maintain their superb drops after completion of gold, alongside additional loot chances.  Anything below gold would simply offer chances at any loot in the instance, including previous gold loot.  Your change actually punishes players who are "hardcore" *cough cough*, to perform well in a veteran adventure environment.  Considering this is entry level for most players who reach 50 prior to stepping foot inside veteran dungeons, you're actually discouraging performance compared to the previous model. 
 
Proposed change for Veteran Adventures:
 
Completion: 1 loot drop from the instance + no additional money
Bronze: 1 loot drop from the instance + 1 additional loot drop + additional money
Silver: 1 loot drop from the instance + 2 additional loot drops + more money
Gold: Previous rewards (ex: 2 superbs from Malgrave, 1 from WotW) + 2 additional loot drops + even more money
 
This system simply improves upon the old system by granting additional chances at loot.  It doesn't penalize coordination and successful play as the NEW and IMPROVED *snicker* system does.	
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To clarify;
 
The change is intentional. Completing a Gold Run no longer *guarantees* an Epic Drop. Instead the medal will give you more chances to roll on the instance loot table, which has a wide list of items including Blue, and Purple item.
 
So, you beat the Dungeon/Adventure on ANY difficulty = 1 roll on the Bosses loot table = Chance for Epics and Superiors (Blues)
 
You get Bronze = one roll on the instance loot table (Again, range of items, including Epics). Silver you get two rolls and Gold you get three rolls.
 
In theory, a group could beat a Dungeon/Adventure on Gold and get four Epic Items drop. Equally they can have four Blue items drop. It's RNG.
 
The intent of this change was not to make getting Epics easier, but to stop players from disbanding as soon as they failed to meet Gold requirements. Now, every group has a chance of getting an Epic item for just defeating the boss despite the medal they earn, but can get MORE epic items if they perform well.
 
That's the explanation, we'll make sure to pass your feedback to Timetraveller and the Content team on this, but I can't say if anything is going to change.
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So for instance, Malgrave Trail and the mythical psyblade.  This has become impossible, well more so impossible then before since the psyblade never drosp, now running it just makes the whole effort pointless.  Because instead of a small eprentage chance to drop, you now have the greater odds of it not dropping at all due to it being a purple and we can have multiple blues drop every run, opposed to 1 of 10 different epics at the end of the run. 
 
Hmmm?  I think this needs to be reworked a little.	
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this sounded great in theory, however as others have mentioned all it really accomplished was to expand queue times as people are more than ever unwilling to do the adventures, especially malgrave.
 
honestly at this point in time the best solution I can see is to buff the superior blues to be better, specifically a little better than crafted options and people might be a little more interested in blues and adventures and the gearing treadmill.
 
As it is now i'm afraid it's going to turn into attunement -> crafted gear -> raiding with no middle ground 	
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To clarify;
 
The change is intentional. Completing a Gold Run no longer *guarantees* an Epic Drop. Instead the medal will give you more chances to roll on the instance loot table, which has a wide list of items including Blue, and Purple item.
 
So, you beat the Dungeon/Adventure on ANY difficulty = 1 roll on the Bosses loot table = Chance for Epics and Superiors (Blues)
 
You get Bronze = one roll on the instance loot table (Again, range of items, including Epics). Silver you get two rolls and Gold you get three rolls.
 
In theory, a group could beat a Dungeon/Adventure on Gold and get four Epic Items drop. Equally they can have four Blue items drop. It's RNG.
 
The intent of this change was not to make getting Epics easier, but to stop players from disbanding as soon as they failed to meet Gold requirements. Now, every group has a chance of getting an Epic item for just defeating the boss despite the medal they earn, but can get MORE epic items if they perform well.
 
That's the explanation, we'll make sure to pass your feedback to Timetraveller and the Content team on this, but I can't say if anything is going to change.
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This "hardcore" game is very quickly being turned over to the casuals. Grats baddies, you got your short Q times against 1800 teams in BGs and Arenas last week, this week you get to ruin loot tables for everyone! "Gold or GTFO" > "Give it to me now!" Can't wait til these idiots hit the raid scene... GL finishing your attunements.
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			So you're able to clear dungeons on gold and still need the epic loot of it badly? There are no alternatives?	
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To clarify;
 
The change is intentional. Completing a Gold Run no longer *guarantees* an Epic Drop. Instead the medal will give you more chances to roll on the instance loot table, which has a wide list of items including Blue, and Purple item.
 
So, you beat the Dungeon/Adventure on ANY difficulty = 1 roll on the Bosses loot table = Chance for Epics and Superiors (Blues)
 
You get Bronze = one roll on the instance loot table (Again, range of items, including Epics). Silver you get two rolls and Gold you get three rolls.
 
In theory, a group could beat a Dungeon/Adventure on Gold and get four Epic Items drop. Equally they can have four Blue items drop. It's RNG.
 
The intent of this change was not to make getting Epics easier, but to stop players from disbanding as soon as they failed to meet Gold requirements. Now, every group has a chance of getting an Epic item for just defeating the boss despite the medal they earn, but can get MORE epic items if they perform well.
 
That's the explanation, we'll make sure to pass your feedback to Timetraveller and the Content team on this, but I can't say if anything is going to change.
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			This does nothing to dispell the gold or nothing mentality as if gold gives you the most chances at epic loot then the loss of gold is going to result in the same thing.  At least the old system kept purples where they belonged, in the hands of only the best.	
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Right now adventures don't drop the 'Final boss' drop.  So it's only 3 drops as opposed to the '4' for gold... I would assume this is a bug.
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Wow, this was so predictable. I read the patch notes and my first thought was: "so now i'm not guarenteed anything?", and apparently thats the case.
 
Protip Carbine: People hated the system because it forced them to farm the adventures. Making them do so more regularly isn't going to make them happy.
 
Complaining about farming gold was more an extension of having to farm content they didn't like. At least people could farm them with their guild easily, now its RNG for everyone.
 
Anyway, i'm done. Dungeons were never worth farming for gold and i've got all my adventure gear (except malgrave but I was never going to farm malgrave for one implant, god that place sucks), so I can sit back and laugh at all the casuals who were begging for a change.	
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These patch notes are amazing! 
 
The changes to the dungeons/adventures are absolutely brilliant.  Hopefully this will mean people will actually queue for them below lvl 50 (without 3 hour queues), and it won't be such a problem with people leaving. 
However, I can see it getting to the stage of "you *cupcaked* up and messed up our gold medal, you owe us X gold"... 
 
Still, these are some awesome changes, and just what we needed to get more people into dungeons/adventures :P
 
I don't understand all the people complaining about it.  It takes nothing away, it just means that sticking with a group (especially in pugs) isn't a waste of time. 
 
edit:  Didn't see the thing about no guaranteed epics in a Gold run. To me that seems a bit of a blow, players should be rewarded for doing the 'hardmode' and working as a group. 	
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I love you man, and I know you're just the messenger :)  Here's my feedback:
 
The number 1 issue is that this clearly removes the value that was present in running dungeons with a well-practiced team. 
 
The problem as always came down to player behavior behing sort of unpredictable (or perhaps far too predictable.) Players were bailing on runs that couldn't end in gold, which was ruining the experience of the players they were matched with. I get that, and I get something had to be done.
 
But taking away the reward for true team effort was not the right way. 
 
Instead, it seems the best thing to do is remove the medal chances from randomly matched groups generated through the group finder. That way, everyone is going in with the expectation of simply completing the dungeon. However, if they want to go after the better rewards, they would put together a team of like-minded individuals organically, so that way everyone is going in with the same mindset. This assures these two groups don't clash in their goals, and helps build community at the same time.
 
In my opinion, trying to fix behavior with the "chance" of more and better loot for less effort is never the right thing to do. And removing guaranteed rewards from proper effort is even worse.
 
/endrant
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{| class="blockquote"
To clarify;
 
The change is intentional. Completing a Gold Run no longer *guarantees* an Epic Drop. Instead the medal will give you more chances to roll on the instance loot table, which has a wide list of items including Blue, and Purple item.
 
So, you beat the Dungeon/Adventure on ANY difficulty = 1 roll on the Bosses loot table = Chance for Epics and Superiors (Blues)
 
You get Bronze = one roll on the instance loot table (Again, range of items, including Epics). Silver you get two rolls and Gold you get three rolls.
 
In theory, a group could beat a Dungeon/Adventure on Gold and get four Epic Items drop. Equally they can have four Blue items drop. It's RNG.
 
The intent of this change was not to make getting Epics easier, but to stop players from disbanding as soon as they failed to meet Gold requirements. Now, every group has a chance of getting an Epic item for just defeating the boss despite the medal they earn, but can get MORE epic items if they perform well.
 
That's the explanation, we'll make sure to pass your feedback to Timetraveller and the Content team on this, but I can't say if anything is going to change.
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{| class="blockquote"
Expectation: All runs will now award a guaranteed epic item, which was previously a gold medal requirement.
 
Reality: All runs will now have a very LOW chance for an epic item, and your performance only has a slight impact on this.
 
To be fair, this will only deter people from doing adventures at all. If doing adventures with gold was easy for you earlier, you will now have a smaller incentive to do adventures anymore because there will be no guaranteed epics anymore, and this is what most people were doing adventures for.
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Gold adventure drops are definitely bugged, only drops 3 items instead of the intended 4. If the missing 4th is the one from the final table, that would explain why the overall sense people are getting is that loot is much harder to come by. Silver run for curiosity by comparison (intentionally failing a WotW objective), got same 3 but one was an epic.
 
As far as the overall philosophy, I agree with what most others have been saying that taking away guaranteed loot for a coordinated team is not the right way to go about it. We were looking forward to running some of our guys through adventures with a more sensible system in place, but the fact is that adventure blues are just salvage fodder, it might be nice for a fresh 50 but almost all fall short of easily crafted pieces due to the way stat priorities work. Meanwhile adventure epics are the only pre-raid "carrot" that many people have to look forward to in kitting out their characters, so making them less reliable seems unwise.
 
The fact that players were dropping instances before when they couldn't get Gold when there were still plenty of blues to be obtained should throw up flags. People don't want blues (from adventures, there are some good dungeon blues but those are scarcely PUGable), so if there's a chance they can run something for 40m and only get blues even if they do it perfect, why waste time? The net result is going to be experienced players not queueing and queues full of people even less likely to meet gold rewards and even less likely to get their epics. I can only speak for myself in saying that I'll be discouraging guild members from queueing up for adventure epics and focusing only on dungeons since the blues there are fine at least, and I'd suggest others do the same until the queues are dead enough that the change is changed. Metrics got us here, maybe they set us free.	
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			Anlath, could it be that adventures are simply bugged at the moment and not rolling from "final boss" loot table?	
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Worst change ever and this is why no dev commented before on "No more 100% purple drop on gold veteran adventure".
 
Be thankful those of you that got what they needed before this patch, but what'd you expect from the same inventor of the rune system?
 
Design 101: more RNG is always bad, but in the end it's mission accomplished. Now medal standing does not matter at all anymore, you're not going to get what you need anyway.
 
 
P.S. With that already close-to-zero drop rate, this might be an actual BUFF to healing psyblade drop rate.	
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			What exactly does "increased item level" mean?	
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Carbine changed the drop items in dungeons at the last min in order to hold back as much gear as possible because they knew the game was mostly unready and in order to get those first month subs they had to gate as many people from end game content as possible. Gold medals were almost impossible with the gear available and wholly depended on the quests, one bad one could cost you that medal.
 
So yay for reverting the changes but shame on you for putting there in the first place.
 
This is the month the game starts to die :( tbh as someone who uses the CX every day I have already felt the drop off in players.	
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the loot change is baloney. 
Why would anyone bother trying for gold now if the epic loot isn't guaranteed?! O_o	
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You have more chance getting an epic with gold, so why not doing gold?
For adventures, it may sounds bad because it was really easy to get gold. But for dungeons, random PUGs will have a chance to get epic loots because most of the time, they can't even achieve the silver timer.	
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Man, I love how people are jumping on to declare the system irreparably broken after the new patch being live for all of 4 hours. Shut off your rage, internet.
 
There's some anecdotal evidence that it's just a bug on the gold loot tables, with the boss drop not appropriately triggering. This should be testable, right? If I read the patch notes correctly, boss loot table is distinct from the encounter-wide loot table. So if you finished the adventure with gold but only 3 blue drops, we should be able to figure out if none of those came from the boss, right...?
 
And even if gold is no longer guaranteed from final boss, I am ABSOLUTELY FINE with this. I can't remember the last time I had a group that actually finished the adventure. One person drops on Malgrave and the whole group quits. Every time. Someone stands in the red in Crimelords and dies and the whole group quits. Every time. People complaining about how their well-oiled machine is no longer so efficient are not representative of the standard player experience in Adventures. I guarantee it.	
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4x Gold and 1x Silver by now, 1 Epics just a bunch of crap Blue.
 
(Keep updating this)	
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{| class="blockquote"
P.S. With that already close-to-zero drop rate, this might be an actual BUFF to healing psyblade drop rate.
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So, after bashing my skull against my keyboard and desk for 5 gold runs RNG has it our group with not 1 epic drop. 
 
So my question is this. What incentive do I have at all do run dungeons at all after getting silver attuned?
 
Why would I want to run these at all if im not going to benefit from it? As it stands now with how bad RNG has been im better off just buying crafted gear and saying screw it til my guild hits GA.
And I am even more baffled that you guys can post a comment as working as intended after stating how "hardcore" this game was supposed to be...
 
And before people start saying "well grinding is hardcore"
 
No, Just no...I do not find relying on AI or computer RNG skill or hardcore...I find it tedious and boring... Becuase now not only do I need to pray to god that the range gods drop a purple, I know on top of that need to hope something I can use drops..
 
So I initially think of this as being double *cupcake*ed. Once by a "LOL chance" of getting an epic then another  "Chance it will be something I can use".
 
I also find this change to RNG only epics for golds a kick in the teeth after you allowing them to drop for so long since launch at the way they were. 
 
You could of simply just put a punishment on VOTE disband or even a timer. But instead you go over kill and just make it so the ones who already got the benefits can laugh and basically say good luck.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Man, I love how people are jumping on to declare the system irreparably broken after the new patch being live for all of 4 hours. Shut off your rage, internet.
 
There's some anecdotal evidence that it's just a bug on the gold loot tables, with the boss drop not appropriately triggering. This should be testable, right? If I read the patch notes correctly, boss loot table is distinct from the encounter-wide loot table. So if you finished the adventure with gold but only 3 blue drops, we should be able to figure out if none of those came from the boss, right...?
 
And even if gold is no longer guaranteed from final boss, I am ABSOLUTELY FINE with this. I can't remember the last time I had a group that actually finished the adventure. One person drops on Malgrave and the whole group quits. Every time. Someone stands in the red in Crimelords and dies and the whole group quits. Every time. People complaining about how their well-oiled machine is no longer so efficient are not representative of the standard player experience in Adventures. I guarantee it.
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{| class="blockquote"
Man, I love how people are jumping on to declare the system irreparably broken after the new patch being live for all of 4 hours. Shut off your rage, internet.
 
There's some anecdotal evidence that it's just a bug on the gold loot tables, with the boss drop not appropriately triggering. This should be testable, right? If I read the patch notes correctly, boss loot table is distinct from the encounter-wide loot table. So if you finished the adventure with gold but only 3 blue drops, we should be able to figure out if none of those came from the boss, right...?
 
And even if gold is no longer guaranteed from final boss, I am ABSOLUTELY FINE with this. I can't remember the last time I had a group that actually finished the adventure. One person drops on Malgrave and the whole group quits. Every time. Someone stands in the red in Crimelords and dies and the whole group quits. Every time. People complaining about how their well-oiled machine is no longer so efficient are not representative of the standard player experience in Adventures. I guarantee it.
 
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I think you guys at Carbine don't realize how much it will impact the game.
 
I'm already having issues queuing (been waiting 38 min to get to MT, with a tank, no joke).
 
Shall I make it simple : ppl want their gear fast.
For most of them, it's not even about attenuement process, most ppl don't even care about raids,
it's just "Epic", cool, and that include casual players, mostly.
Which btw explains the huge amount of ninja rolls from heals on dps gear, or the opposite in dungeon finding.
 
So, when I hear that u did that bacause casual players really wanted so bad to get their advent cleaned, it's just completely nonsense.
These are the first to early disband when someone dies, cause they obvsly don't really know about requirements for gold (can't count how many times I've heard : gold over, he died).
Besides, attenuement process can't be done in dungeon finder, its just impossible for dungeons.
If these guys thought : " Damn, can't get my attenuement done, no silver, cause these guys leave", they certainly shall do something else. They'll just get mad on dj attenuement right after.
 
Let's talk about stuff now. Crafted gear, and world drops are REALLY often better.
Srsly : I want silver for my gear, I need that gear ? ==> Nonsense in most cases
Why bother going to adventures?
 
So now that's how it's going to be, and what it means atm :
 
--> Hard time getting into any adventure.
--> Miracle to have its loot there.
--> Farming plat to buy world drops (interesting way of playing, farming CX).
 
The issue was not about early disbanding for no gold (or it's completely nonsense).
It was about droprate for most people, I'm sure of that.
Having to grind 50, 60, 70+ adventures and still not have their loot ==> That was the point.
 
U want people to farm adventures to get epic, fine, just don't make em farm more, they won't do it.	
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			Doesnt say medals give epics. Its not a bug juat a shitty hotfix.	
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			Why are there blue drops when they are so inferior to crafted items in the first place?	
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{| class="blockquote"
Doesnt say medals give epics. Its not a bug juat a shitty hotfix.
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I just want to say..
 
Your update with the medall system yet more bad than before your update.
 
 
Some gildies from my guild was in a adv, there become at the end just 4 silver ! and have a gold medall -> nothing with 250% more.
And they have not drop an epic. So this is more bad than before... i don't know dudes - but u make always after a patch more problems than before.	
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			Got right now a Silver run Stormatalon and didn't have any epic from Stormtalon, idk if is a bug or something like that. Just reporting!	
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Now we get to spend 30-60 minutes with a chance to not get any epics?! ARE YOU JOKING?! This is such a stupid hotfix. Now we get to waste more time with no guarenteed purples. This will stop ques for Adv/Dungeons. You didn't fix anything you just made it worse. We will still quit for Gold since that will more likley get us purples. 
 
Moderator edit: Language 
			
				
	Edited July 16, 2014 by Chillia	
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			This system sucks or its not working as intended. Previously you could get purples by being good! Now you can be very good, but have really shitty luck and almost never get purples.	
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{| class="blockquote"
2x Gold and 1x Silver by now, 0 Epics just a bunch of crap Blue.
 
(Keep updating this)
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{| class="blockquote"
 
you mean this?
 
When moving a Soulbind-On-Equip item in your inventory, the "Confirm soulbind" dialog will now only appear if the item would become soulbound. 
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{| class="blockquote"
How bad are you? Like 50% of  Siege pugs manage gold. 95% manage gold in CoW. I'd say 30% of my WOTW pugs managed gold, but I haven't pugged WOTW since I got my resonators and swore to never return. Malgrave isn't really puggable, but if you get everyone in vent and have someone who can order them around its easy to gold every single time. I don't farm malgrave cause its like a 70 minute run, not because its hard.
 
What do you mean "boss loot"? The boss loot is a blue anyway. The medal loot is what is awarding multiple drops and possible epics, anyway, not the boss loot. If gold is missing 1 drop, and all 4 (or is it 3) should be possible epics, logic actually dictates that the missing on either couldn't be epic anyway or was one of the possible epics.
 
I didn't even have to log in to figure out this was going to be a problem. I don't understand how devs read these patch notes and thought it would make people happy lol.
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{| class="blockquote"
 
Characters
Items
When moving a Soulbind-On-Equip item in your inventory, the "Confirm soulbind" dialog will now only appear if the item would become soulbound.
Items transferred to the Guild bank now properly validate uniqueness.
Classes
 
Stalker
AbilitiesShred should now deal damage as intended.Esper 
AbilitiesVisual effects should once again show up when casting "Crush"PvP
 
General
 
Gear in the buyback list now counts towards the gear score when queuing up for PvP matches. 
Arenas
 
General
 
The Deserter debuff now properly applies to AFK players who go AFK in an Arena. 
Economy
 
Loot
Several rewards from Stormtalon's Lair, Kel Voreth, and Skullcano normal mode have been increased in item level.
Several rewards from Hycrest, Astrovoid, War of the Wilds, Siege of Tempest Refuge, Crimelords of Whitevale and Malgrave Trail have been increased in item level and rarity.
Bosses in Stormtalon's Lair, Kel Voreth and Skullcano normal mode will now drop at least 2 items, instead of 1, when defeated.
Reward points in Hycrest, Astrovoid, War of the Wilds, Siege of Tempest Refuge, Crimelords of Whitevale and Malgrave Trail normal mode will now drop at least 2 items, instead of 1, upon completion.
Dungeons and Adventures no longer have unique rewards on Bronze, Silver and Gold Medal rewards. 
Bronze Medal will no longer sometimes award good-quality loot. 
All excellent-quality and superb-quality items that were previously only available on the Silver and Gold Medals are now available from the final boss.
Medals now also multiply the amount of money awarded from the final encounter:No Medal - 100% money reward
Bronze Medal - 150% money reward
Silver Medal - 200% money reward
Gold Medal - 250% money reward
Medal rewards now confer additional loot rolls on an instance-wide loot table. Each of these rolls has a flat bonus chance to select from the final boss's superb item list. 
The reward structure is now as follows:No Medal: 1 roll on the final boss table
Bronze Medal: 1 roll on the final boss table, 1 roll on an instance-wide loot table
Silver Medal: 1 roll on the final boss table, 2 rolls on an instance-wide loot table
Gold Medal: 1 roll on the final boss table, 3 rolls on an instance-wide loot table
AMP and Ability Points are now more likely to drop in World Loot. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
To clarify;
 
The change is intentional. Completing a Gold Run no longer *guarantees* an Epic Drop. Instead the medal will give you more chances to roll on the instance loot table, which has a wide list of items including Blue, and Purple item.
 
So, you beat the Dungeon/Adventure on ANY difficulty = 1 roll on the Bosses loot table = Chance for Epics and Superiors (Blues)
 
You get Bronze = one roll on the instance loot table (Again, range of items, including Epics). Silver you get two rolls and Gold you get three rolls.
 
In theory, a group could beat a Dungeon/Adventure on Gold and get four Epic Items drop. Equally they can have four Blue items drop. It's RNG.
 
The intent of this change was not to make getting Epics easier, but to stop players from disbanding as soon as they failed to meet Gold requirements. Now, every group has a chance of getting an Epic item for just defeating the boss despite the medal they earn, but can get MORE epic items if they perform well.
 
That's the explanation, we'll make sure to pass your feedback to Timetraveller and the Content team on this, but I can't say if anything is going to change.
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Siege of the Tempest Refuge:
Silver Medal
2 pieces of blues. 
No purple drops.	
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This is why no one answered to those that asked if we were going to still get 100% purple in case of gold medal.
 
RNG wasn't enough with rune system, this is adding insult to injury.
 
Oh and Malgrave can be PUGed, I WAS approaching 3 digit gold runs, and most were made with group finder.
 
 
P.S. Regarding healing psyblade: obviously BEFORE PATCH you didn't have the approx 12% chance to get it, like you DID with other purples, but something close to 0.
If it got balanced with other items now it should have his 1/60 to drop on each of the added rolls, netting a 5% chance in case of gold medal. 5%>0%.	
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Nice, glad to see the change done. I'll have to try it myself, but sounds good t me.
 
I think that if this were to be changed any further though, maybe consider having the purple items purchasable from the elder gem vendor as unlocks or an equivalent where veterans have their own currency awarded and you purchase the purple items using said currency gained. You would have to unlock each medal to be able to purchase it though..or something like that...kinda like how you have some of the genetic archive and datascape gear.
 
 
Also...ability points are drops!?
			
				
	Edited July 16, 2014 by Typrop	
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{| class="blockquote"
To clarify;
 
The change is intentional. Completing a Gold Run no longer *guarantees* an Epic Drop. Instead the medal will give you more chances to roll on the instance loot table, which has a wide list of items including Blue, and Purple item.
 
So, you beat the Dungeon/Adventure on ANY difficulty = 1 roll on the Bosses loot table = Chance for Epics and Superiors (Blues)
 
You get Bronze = one roll on the instance loot table (Again, range of items, including Epics). Silver you get two rolls and Gold you get three rolls.
 
In theory, a group could beat a Dungeon/Adventure on Gold and get four Epic Items drop. Equally they can have four Blue items drop. It's RNG.
 
The intent of this change was not to make getting Epics easier, but to stop players from disbanding as soon as they failed to meet Gold requirements. Now, every group has a chance of getting an Epic item for just defeating the boss despite the medal they earn, but can get MORE epic items if they perform well.
 
That's the explanation, we'll make sure to pass your feedback to Timetraveller and the Content team on this, but I can't say if anything is going to change.
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ty for all 
 
And alchemy, will have a patch soon? it will be nice to finish this job	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
 
Please pass on that a Gold run should lock in 1 epic (with RNG on the rest of the stuff) to reward the effort needed to achieve this.
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{| class="blockquote"
To clarify;
 
The change is intentional. Completing a Gold Run no longer *guarantees* an Epic Drop. Instead the medal will give you more chances to roll on the instance loot table, which has a wide list of items including Blue, and Purple item.
 
So, you beat the Dungeon/Adventure on ANY difficulty = 1 roll on the Bosses loot table = Chance for Epics and Superiors (Blues)
 
You get Bronze = one roll on the instance loot table (Again, range of items, including Epics). Silver you get two rolls and Gold you get three rolls.
 
In theory, a group could beat a Dungeon/Adventure on Gold and get four Epic Items drop. Equally they can have four Blue items drop. It's RNG.
 
The intent of this change was not to make getting Epics easier, but to stop players from disbanding as soon as they failed to meet Gold requirements. Now, every group has a chance of getting an Epic item for just defeating the boss despite the medal they earn, but can get MORE epic items if they perform well.
 
That's the explanation, we'll make sure to pass your feedback to Timetraveller and the Content team on this, but I can't say if anything is going to change.
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{| class="blockquote"
so the intention was to change
 
gold or bust  to new system is a bust ?
 
got it, might as well not bother running adventure/dungeons.
 
 
so now we have so much layers of rng in place might as well make layer cake.
 
1st layer to actually finish the instance (many bugs handle it)
2nd layer to get the item to drop ( now 10 times harder due to new system)
3rd layer to get the right amount of rune slots.
4th layer to get the right type of rune slots
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Nice patch notes, even if it seems not to be perfect yet.
 
But no fix for the stylist menu being broken (flickering costume pieces when changing them, pieces still showing up despite choosing not to have them shown) in either this patch or the PTR ones makes me a sad Draken.	
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			Just finished an aventure in gold medal... No epic... Seriously?I'm a DPS warrior, so i'm used to don't see gear for me (tank stalkers, you lucky!) but now, no epic?Do I have to bashing random mobs all day to have a chance to loot stuff?	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
In theory, a group could beat a Dungeon/Adventure on Gold and get four Epic Items drop. Equally they can have four Blue items drop. It's RNG.
 
The intent of this change was not to make getting Epics easier, but to stop players from disbanding as soon as they failed to meet Gold requirements. Now, every group has a chance of getting an Epic item for just defeating the boss despite the medal they earn, but can get MORE epic items if they perform well.
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Might aswell add my concern aswell.
5 SOTR Runs
4 Gold
1 Silver
49 Item drops.
0 Epics.
 
Edit: 8 SOTR Runs
7 Gold
1 Silver
63 Item drops
0 epics
 
I liked the old way, took me 2 weeks and about 150 gold runs in WOTW to get the engineer gun. But at least it felt like it was within my grasp.
I'm not saying they should stuff people with epics. But being in ONE adventure for a whole day, and not seeing one person get anything they can use. That is a bit demoralising. The old way you'd at least see how happy people got when they got their loot.	
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			When will we get optimization? 25 fps makes me sad :(	
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{| class="blockquote"
Might aswell add my concern aswell.
5 SOTR Runs
4 Gold
1 Silver
49 Item drops.
0 Epics.
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			Waiting for the day that they up exp from dungeons and adventures... Thatll be the day that not only myself and many friends actually run them :(  Up the damn exp carbine!! pleaaaaase for the love of god!	
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			I really dont understand why they did not simply move the current loot system to bronze rank so that you got the epic from bronze. then added in these additional loot drops for silver and gold. regardless of how low the chance for the epic from the additionals was it would of made people strive for silver or gold for additional achievements and drops. but why would you punish every player by removing the epic that dropped? now there is no reason to run these or even strive for silver or gold past attunement.	
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{| class="blockquote"
In theory, a group could beat a Dungeon/Adventure on Gold and get four Epic Items drop. Equally they can have four Blue items drop. It's RNG.
----
			The problem is by doing what they have done they have made the loot table include the entire instances loot table which is 80% blues or something. so you have a 1/10? maybe chance of getting a epic from each drop. prolly significantly worse then that im being optimistic. again they should of guarunteed the first drop being from the epic table only and let the other 3 be random in this way and it would of been fine to everyone.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I really dont understand why they did not simply move the current loot system to bronze rank so that you got the epic from bronze. then added in these additional loot drops for silver and gold. regardless of how low the chance for the epic from the additionals was it would of made people strive for silver or gold for additional achievements and drops. but why would you punish every player by removing the epic that dropped? now there is no reason to run these or even strive for silver or gold past attunement.
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			But you assume this fixes the problem. now not even gold gets a epic drop. the point of this patch was to make loot more readily available so that people didnt leave when gold failed. they not only failed to address that but now have made the rest of us frustrated to no end by making the epic drops we need near impossible to get.	
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			between dungeons and adventures i have about 6 epics to get to complete both my sets before raids are my only upgrades. this is basically unattainable now because im not only fighting hope that i get the epic i need when i get gold but now im hoping i get the epic i need instead of 80 other blues the dungeon has to offer.	
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This is absolute mana from heaven for those that are purely casual (I mean so casual, they play this game like an xbox arcade game, not people that can only play it casually due to work/family obligations/college).
This is absolute mana from heaven for those that are purely lazy (OMG! No guarenteed purple drops on gold?! Perma-bronze runs it is!!!!)
This is complete garbage for those that are purely hardcore (and yes, despite all the QQ there are quite a few pugs that are hardcore and competent because they can't do guild runs 24/7)
This is complete garbage for those that spent 20 gold runs a day 7 days a week and didn't get their drop (now there are NO guaranteed purple drops..Ha! jokes on us!)
 
This is the same kind of uncreative response to in game issues that made me leave Blizzard games behind. No, i'm not unsubbing, Yes I still think Carbine is 1000% better than Blizzard at the moment, and I do applaud the programmers for getting a fix out so soon. My issue is that this is a low tech, uninspired fix that will be in game for a long time. 
 
What should've been done (but would've taken a lot longer to do)
1. Loot drops tailored to the classes detected in instance group (to reduce uneeded/redundant drops)
2. Player gear detected (to eliminate drops that everybody in group already has, unless a group member doesn't have it).
3. 0 purples for bronze, 1 purple for silver, 2 purples for gold guaranteed, with an increase in Adventure difficulty for each medal cleared during the Adventure (I.E more spawns, tougher spawns, more enemy HP)
4. No loot is given out until the adventure is cleared, and no loot is received if group chooses to "vote disband" to discourage deserters after their sweet item drops before end boss.
 
The NEW issues that will rise from Carbine's current changes:
1. A general lack of trying from PUG groups due to no guaranteed purples. You see, while Carbine DID specifically state that you have INCREASED ROLLS on loot (i.e a better chance at rolling a purple) with increased medals, all that most players (read casuals and those too elitist / lazy to read actual patch notes) will hear is "Adventures don't drop guaranteed purples."
 
2. Players that have grinded 20 gold medal runs a day 7 days a week for the last 3+ weeks to get that sweet purple drop and never did (read tank & healer weapons) will do a few runs (like I just did) and get a Gold Medal, but only see blue drops. This will not only demotivate those players further, but cause a few of them (like 2 of my friends today) to unsub out of frustration and just go back to different MMOs where they can actually get compensated for the work they put in.
 
3. Since players can shut their brains off and just run bronze/silver runs from now to eternity, the players transitioning to Vet dungeons will be even less prepared than before, leading to even more frustration on completion (rather than frustration on loot drops).
 
4. Some players will just give up on PvE for a while and work mostly on PvP out of frustration which (hopefully) leads to an increase to PvP Warplots, and battles.
 
5. I predict even more PUG Vet group rage quitting due to astronomically increased frustration from the crowd that was already quitting (people frustrated with running gold 1000s of times and not getting their purple drop due to jacked up loot table %)
 
6. Everyone selling epics on the AH will jack up the price an extra 5+ plat for purples, no matter if the stats are garbage or not.
 
7. An increase in players buying or grinding away gold to pay guilds to run them through vet dungeons
 
The NEW slogans for Vet Adventures and Trolls:
UMADBRO? BRONZALLUNEED
This iz Wildstar brah! no trying required!
I'm not AFK, we don't need to try to get phat lewtz
I DON'T NEED 2 KNO DA INSTANCE BRAH, WE STILL GET LEWTZ!! LEYROYYYY!!!!
Everyone rdy for their free epics?! <only blues drop> MAN!! @#$^#@ THIS GAME! I'M GOING BACK TO WoW!!
Welcome to War of the Whendahellamigonnagetmydamnepicdrop
Why queue for siege? its too much work for blues
ZOMG A PURPLE DROP! HAX!!
I would rather burn my eyes out with hot pokers while being savagely beaten with a spiked club than run Malgraive Trail just to get more blues
AIN'T GETTING SILVER NOW! DEUCES LOSERS <Player has quit the group> <------- If people already complain about deserters if you lose gold, wait till deserters for losing silvers	
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That's great a lot of players did loot great gear with the old "bad" mentality. Now the players hitting vet now will have even more difficulties getting geared. Blue is fine but you can get it from daily quests, npcs, challenges and so on...
If the problem is the leavers, why not just put a 2 hours honourless debuff on them (not being able to enter another run)? If someone doesn't want to loose his complete evening, he then will finish the run rather than quit, even if it's silver or less, and perhaps teach some things in the way to those less skilled or less experienced people he is stuck with...
Punish the leavers, not everybody.	
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{| class="blockquote"
But you assume this fixes the problem. now not even gold gets a epic drop. the point of this patch was to make loot more readily available so that people didnt leave when gold failed. they not only failed to address that but now have made the rest of us frustrated to no end by making the epic drops we need near impossible to get.
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			In old system you could make 100 (one hundred!!!!) gold runs with 100% epic drop and receive NO loot for yourself. How much it will take now to get it?	
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			Fantabulous.	
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Gear in the buyback list now counts towards the gear score when queuing up for PvP matches.
 
Can we get some clarification on this? Was this being exploited in some way? It doesn't really make a lot of sense and I can see some negative implications from this change if I'm understanding it correctly.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Gear in the buyback list now counts towards the gear score when queuing up for PvP matches.
 
Can we get some clarification on this? Was this being exploited in some way? It doesn't really make a lot of sense and I can see some negative implications from this change if I'm understanding it correctly.
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Another idea could be rewarding the top players, and rewarding the others while they get experienced and need to have better gear.
For example:
Bronze = 1 chance to drop an epic on last
Silver = 1 epic garantied on last
Gold = 1 epic garantied on 2 bosses
Or give epic armor on silver and epic armor or weapon on gold...
 
With the loot possible on every bosses, there are good chances than farm groups will do the same 1st easiest and fastest boss again and again, not bothering to go further in the dunjeon, like it's the case on lots of MMO allready and that sucks...	
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I love this patch...now if only my medic's dps will be adjusted i will be a happy camper
 	
----
			Would have been nice to keep guaranteed epic on gold completions. Just ran a gold WotW and had 4 blues at the end. Out of 50+ golds I still haven't seen Meteoric Sliver once, now I don't just have to worry about my sword dropping I have to worry about getting an epic at all.	
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{| class="blockquote"
This!
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After 5 adventure runs , 3gold 2 silver, i've only seen blue items drop today.I haven't even seen the Final Boss(award) +3 , on gold, item drop.Blue items , 2 decor items (wtf is wrong with those) and the epic patterns.
 
Given that itemization sucks big time.The fact that the rune slots break and make the item.There is too much diablo-like RNG involved to get equiped.
 
The system changed for better imo but work needs to be done to itemization and # of epic dropped .	
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WoW! (and not the sucky wow)  "The Devs Are Listening" and here is the proof!  Can I put you guys on my X-Mas card list? :D
 
Keep it up, your efforts are appreciated!!! Awesome game, THANK YOU!	
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here is my feedback about this patch , very disapointed in the fact that there is no more epic guaranteed to drop, did 3 vet adventure and all we get is blue crap vendor / salvage ...
 
dont get into the rng boat that diablo 3 has created that everything you get is vendored / salvaged cause this will kill the game...
 
doing malgrave trail 20time to get that 1 or 2 epic you want isnt fun at all , it get boring real fast and eventually will turn people away to other game that feel more rewarding	
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{| class="blockquote"
To clarify;
 
The change is intentional. Completing a Gold Run no longer *guarantees* an Epic Drop. Instead the medal will give you more chances to roll on the instance loot table, which has a wide list of items including Blue, and Purple item.
 
So, you beat the Dungeon/Adventure on ANY difficulty = 1 roll on the Bosses loot table = Chance for Epics and Superiors (Blues)
 
You get Bronze = one roll on the instance loot table (Again, range of items, including Epics). Silver you get two rolls and Gold you get three rolls.
 
In theory, a group could beat a Dungeon/Adventure on Gold and get four Epic Items drop. Equally they can have four Blue items drop. It's RNG.
 
The intent of this change was not to make getting Epics easier, but to stop players from disbanding as soon as they failed to meet Gold requirements. Now, every group has a chance of getting an Epic item for just defeating the boss despite the medal they earn, but can get MORE epic items if they perform well.
 
That's the explanation, we'll make sure to pass your feedback to Timetraveller and the Content team on this, but I can't say if anything is going to change.
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{| class="blockquote"
In old system you could make 100 (one hundred!!!!) gold runs with 100% epic drop and receive NO loot for yourself. How much it will take now to get it?
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So, am I understanding this, the same people who pug adventures with partial groups (3-4) and disband as soon as a lack of communication results in losing a Gold medal, are now complaining they don't get guaranteed epics?  If the common practice wasn't to drop group as soon as you lose Gold, the loot table would not have needed the same change.  If you ever disbanded for losing Gold, you contributed to the problem.
 
Carbine, I personally like the change.  Adventure mode is not an absolute gearing step, especially to premade guild groups.  You can skip it, and if you do, dungeons will be more challenging, more "hardcore" for you.  Dungeons will be end game for some players, so again, I'm sure they don't care either.  If you have bad RNG, your gearing process will be more grindy than your guildmate who rolls epics 75% of the time.  RPG's have always had RNG, and if you cherry pick what you like about traditional mmorpg elements, it might just be time for you to quit playing them.	
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			I'm so cupcake glad im already BiS stalker tank geared cuz i spendess hours farming instances for gear, sadly rest of my guildmates are not cuz every next patch Carbine makes bigger disaster than previous one. It's the best MMO with hardest PvE content and it's great, but spending hours trying reach silver/gold on dungeons/adventures without any prize is worthless (3-4 blue items is not prize, its more like a faceslap). You talking about people leaving party cuz silver/gold fail, now noone will even try cuz there is nothing to go for (hail 1,5h spend on malgrave trial).Again fail patch, fail idea, gj Carbine. I were so glad when i heard about Wildstar i watched every coming dev speak i spend hours reading about game. Now after 1,5 month of release I think I wasted money. Sadly your repeating fails makes your clients disappointed and you will lose them.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Players that already received the loot in previous runs would have their item level increased? Or are those loots basically new gear that we can farm?
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			When you able to fix path abilities skills? About month I and half of friends can use only base path abilities. And we all have max path level skill. When we get out tier2 abilities?	
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{| class="blockquote"
Lets count. Previously you had 12% chance to get you want. With new system you have 12%*0.15 = 1.8% get you want, but 4 times. If we assume RNG MAth is closer to real RNG, you should expected 1.8^4 = 10.5% chance per gold run. But.
 
Lets assume epic is only 15% of loot table (0.15 koef). So really we need to count chances towards you:
15% - you have epic. 12% you have what you need = 1.8%. Each roll is independed, so basically you have 1.8% chance per roll. 
 
You have 3 rolls. 1.8%*3 = 5.4% per gold run to get what you need.
Reality may be worse:
- 5% chance to get epic (if loot table 95% filled with blues), 12% chance epic is what you need.
- 15% chance to get epic in whole run (3 rolls, assuming BOSS roll is bugged) and 12% what you need, so 1.8%
 
Assuming previos 100 runs was 12%, in new system you will need at least 666.66(6) runs to get what you need (what the hell?)
 
666.66(6) * 1 hour/172hr = 3.8 month of doing same dungeon, 8 hours per day.
 
I think this is intended, as adventures is so fun and get new gaming experience every time you enter it.
 
3.8 month per 1 item, so Carbine will earn $15*3.8*7 = $400 per character to get all 7 epics and each human should spend 2.21 YEAR то get purple geared, doing adventures 8 hours 22 days month. I think this is really EPIC effort.
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{| class="blockquote"
Basically, if we have gotten loot from the adventures/dungeons already, is the loot itself upgraded even if we already have it?  Or will we need to re-farm it?  Please tell me it is upgraded!
 
*Cupcake*ing awesome patches the last couple of days, and I appreciate that the Devs have actually replied to the class forums with the updates (per class) planned for July.  You guys are headed in the right direction.  Keep it up!
 
Edited: also if you have a moment to clarify the Medal system loot for myself and the others crying above me.  Does this mean zones such as Malgrave Trail and War of the Wilds no longer have the 100% chance to drop an epic in a gold run?  I read it as same loot tables and such on last boss work as before (epic), but now also have 3 other items in the zone loot table for gold.
 
So War of the Wilds as a gold run still drops 100% epic from last boss + 3 additional items in the zones loot table (which could mean more chances at epics).
----
			this system dosent always mean u get a epic old system atleast if u got gold u knew ud get a epic now u dont i dont like	
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			Im already searching for the next mmo to come out that looks interesting, WildStar has shown promise but considering since launch our small guild has gone from 30-50 separate players loggin in to 5-10 I think, like many games before it, that the game is already rapidly dying, changes like this will only increase the speed at which people leave. Its unfortunate but this is the mmo industry and is all too common, good try carbine, I hope you "Hardcore" players can keep your profits high enough to warrant keeping the game afloat.	
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This patch:
 
Only, we don't like RNG.
 
RNG is not 'Hard'. RNG is 'Tedious' and 'Annoying'.
You need to take a card from WoW and implement 'bad luck protection'.
 
I suggest:
Every time a blue drops on your final rolls at end of adventure, it doubles the % to get an epic for next one. (assuming ~10% base chance, can alter depending on real chance if you like, or just stick with 10%)
 
Result:
By the time you get to fourth drop (ie. gold runs after 3 blues already), it's ~80% to be an Epic. Silver runs still have a ~50% overall chance, but it drastically reduces the chances of getting no epics on a gold run (I calc it at 8.6% getting 4 blues, based on 10% base chance), which just frustrates your playerbase and ultimately causes people to ragequit.	
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EPIC Fail
 
Fanboy appreciates the patch but which by the population represent you they you will know it on August 3rd.
Several Beta begin this summer (which one tomorrow) and of big release in 2015 which will be certainly the year of the F2P for Wildstar	
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Sorry but still not seeing the purpose of not rewarding players appropriately for gold runs with a chance at epics which also leads me to wonder what's the point of having any ranking system in place if it's all based on RNG?
Deliberate gear grind to slow progression is deliberate?
 
I can attest that many of my guildies are about done with the game based on these change  which makes their incentive to log on and gear up zilch since reward isn't worth the time or effort.
 
I'd say either have normal and veteran modes of each adventure or rethink what has been implemented as I can see it hurting Wildstar.	
----
			
No more guaranteed epics for gold runs...
 
This is a terrible, terrible change.  It is the first step in catering to the bads and punishing the people that actually know how to play the game.  Mark the date, its the beginning of the end.	
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			This just blows my mind. I listened to that Wildstar talk where the Dungeon lead designer came in, and thought, yes this guy is speaking sense. People were leaving PUGs because those who couldn't find a decent guild or perform flawlessy lost Gold thus abandoned the group, creating a bad social environment for PUGs. Keep in mind organised group were fine, and guilds were encouraged to coordinate and achieve gold, who were aptly rewarded with at least one epic susceptible to RNG gods - there WAS progression though.So not only did this change make it barely worthwhile for PUGs to strive for Gold with 10% change to get an epic drop (based on data so far), but organised progressing people who used to get gold are punished for what?.. Progressing too fast? Instead of 4 Epics, we get 3 duplicates of the same blue shoulder piece... Now the chances of getting what we need is 10% to first roll an epic, and 1/8 to get the actual epic we need? And a developer comes out and says this is intended?I've been pretty chill about most bugs or short-comings.. made guides and suggested work arounds. But this is game breaking, and hurts your core target market by leaving them susceptible to the horrors of RNG. If this is intended, you're not going to lose the random PUGing whiner, you're going to destroy all your organised progressing hardcore PVE guilds. Perhaps instead of PUG droppers you'd prefer game leavers?	
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			Yeah, no epic drops from last bosses on a gold run is really depressing.  You should get rewarded with a good item for gold, not a chance at 4 blues that literally no one will use, other than to salvage.  You are basically removing the entire population of people that have cleared all dungeons to never do adventures again.  Even when purples were dropping it was rare that you would get the one you wanted.  Let alone one you wanted with good rune slots.  I ran VETERAN War of the Wilds 34 times before I got my resonators.  And they don't even have good slots. I ran VETERAN CrimeLords 23 times before I got my boots, and they are even worse rune slots.	
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Appreciate the update.
 
But how about a little more into the various bugs that I have popped up since the patch of 7/15?	
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Wow... these changes to loot are total crap.  What your doing is hurting the player base who has a strong 5 man group who can get gold all the time in adventures to just rolling threw it fast for Bronze for the change on the boss roll for a CHANCE at purple gear.  Come on Carbine, thanks for screwing your "hard-core' player base and the fact that you said you were not going to nerf the game which you just did...
 
I guess it's time for speed runs for Bronze to get a chance at the boss roll.	
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Removing the guaranteed Epic drop from gold achievement was NOT a solution.  That just removed all benefit of the challenge and even running adventures/dungeons for epic drops.  It's now far more efficient to rep grind and craft epic gear sets. 
 
Unfortunately, this "solution" is one of many disappointing choices being made to WildStar.
 
There are a number of other routes that could have been taken, like greatly increasing the deserter buff, buffing the remaining players, etc...  The current change doesn't discourage the behavior at all, players will still disband since gold medal runs offer more $ and greater odds at "possible" epic drops.	
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It's good to see they finally fixed the game killing memory leak error!
 
The forums were starting to get full of suckers complaining about it.
 
Thanks Carbine!	
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It's quite funny actually.
 
Carbine sees that groups disband if they don't get gold.
 
Carbine lessens the chance of getting epics from a gold run, and medals under gold have even worse chance of getting epics. How is this a fix, people will still want gold because instead of a low chance of getting an epic, you could be getting a very low chance instead and now there's even less point in doing anything less than gold.
 
I think it's a matter of miscommunication. When this "fix" was first advertised, people glanced over the fact that this would be a RNG based system and assumed it was a guaranteed epic for a finished run, no matter what your medal standing was. Because of this, the forums were full of positive feedback and praise for the proposed fix.
 
The devs are listening.. but they may not hear you correctly? :)	
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{| class="blockquote"
Carbine sees that groups disband if they don't get gold.
 
Carbine lessens the chance of getting epics from a gold run, and medals under gold have even worse chance of getting epics. How is this a fix, people will still want gold because instead of a low chance of getting an epic, you could be getting a very low chance instead and now there's even less point in doing anything less than gold.
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{| class="blockquote"
I haven't yet gotten to 50 so I don't understand these mechanics firsthand, but the way you explained it - isn't this a solution? The old way was all or nothing - either gold and guaranteed epic, or less and guaranteed no epic. Now there's a reason to finish the run even if you fall short of gold, isn't there?
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The question about 100% purple drop with gold medal was blatantly dodged, because it'd have had a 100% chance of a majority of negative feedback.
 
More RNG can be "hard" in the sense that things are less likely to happen regardless of what you do.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I haven't yet gotten to 50 so I don't understand these mechanics firsthand, but the way you explained it - isn't this a solution? The old way was all or nothing - either gold and guaranteed epic, or less and guaranteed no epic. Now there's a reason to finish the run even if you fall short of gold, isn't there?
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{| class="blockquote"
Because then you're basically giving away epics for no effort at all, making them no longer epic.
 
I'm glad epics are harder to get now, guaranteed epics were never a good idea IMO. 
----
			
nice, waited so long for that patch, did now 4 gold adv and got every time 3 blues, gratz.
 
worst patch ever, would like to have the old method back.	
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God I just have a bad feeling my five man is going to stop running anything because of this craptastic chance at purples doesn't make it worth while at all.
 
And for those people saying crafted gear, it now takes me 18 days to make my crafted gloves...  And that's just one item, and i have to start a new tree once that is done.  Really?  Wow..	
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			I take all I say... this blows... 5 Gold runs NO epic drops /golfclap	
----
			WTF. Wait, are you telling me now that if I sink an hour of my life into doing Malgrave thant I no longer have a guarantee of epics on a gold run? Right ok, brilliant change, keep up the good work! /sarcasm	
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I think Carbine will made changes soon, not Math based expectation, but real RNG stats.
Would be nice:
 
1. Some "memory" in rolls. So if item dropped in current roll, it excluded from all next rolls. This will also drammatically increase purples chance in gold rolls with same loot and %% tables
 
2. Increase chance of epic from roll to roll if it didn't dropped yet, so:
- 1st roll = blue, increase chance
- 2nd roll = blue, increase chance
- 3rd roll = epic, reset chance to base value
 
Making chance +25% each not-epic roll will make guarantied epic drop for gold runs in one hand and slight chance for silver/bronze rewards.	
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{| class="blockquote"
God I just have a bad feeling my five man is going to stop running anything because of this craptastic chance at purples doesn't make it worth while at all.
 
And for those people saying crafted gear, it now takes me 18 days to make my crafted gloves...  And that's just one item, and i have to start a new tree once that is done.  Really?  Wow..
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{| class="blockquote"
I haven't yet gotten to 50 so I don't understand these mechanics firsthand, but the way you explained it - isn't this a solution? The old way was all or nothing - either gold and guaranteed epic, or less and guaranteed no epic. Now there's a reason to finish the run even if you fall short of gold, isn't there?
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{| class="blockquote"
LoL really you are the only person that is complaining about the Medal change, what so bad people getting GEAR from dungeons and advetures now?
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{| class="blockquote"
 
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
God I just have a bad feeling my five man is going to stop running anything because of this craptastic chance at purples doesn't make it worth while at all.
 
And for those people saying crafted gear, it now takes me 18 days to make my crafted gloves...  And that's just one item, and i have to start a new tree once that is done.  Really?  Wow..
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Here is what carbine originally said. Its very clear. What you were getting out of a gold run before will now drop from the final bosses (aka winning). That is NOT what is implemented now as Gold always guaranteed you purples and no longer does so.
 
The existing gold medal rewards are being removed from gold medal completion.
o   These rewards will instead drop off the final bosses or encounters for dungeons and adventures.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I guess theoretically you could sell all your gear and queue up for a battleground. Once a match has been found you could buy it all back and then join the battleground with all your pvp gear. Never done it or heard of it before, but the logic behind it seems reasonable.
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Gonna go ahead and say that this change really blows for adventures.  They were shitty before, now that everyone has Gold on farm they are even shittier with this change.  Oh well.  Guess there is actually a reason to do dungeons now.  GG.
 
(3 gold runs, 2 silver runs, no epic drops whatsoever)	
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I think a currency that drops off of salvaging veteran greens/blues/purples that could then be redeemed for gear would go a long way toward making people feel less RNG-*cupcake*ed.
 
As it stands, you can be the best possible player you can and still be screwed over by RNG. That's moving AWAY from the "hardcore" imagine this game is trying to push...	
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			I applause the medal patch.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Here is what carbine originally said. Its very clear. What you were getting out of a gold run before will now drop from the final bosses (aka winning). That is NOT what is implemented now as Gold always guaranteed you purples and no longer does so.
 
The existing gold medal rewards are being removed from gold medal completion.
o   These rewards will instead drop off the final bosses or encounters for dungeons and adventures.
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{| class="blockquote"
I applause the medal patch.
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			Gz Carbine. U fix like 3 things and break 100 more. Crimelords of whitevale is unplayable coz the quest mobs are bugged and you cannot kill them. Even though there is apparently minimal changes to Stalker my threat has overnight dropped considerably. Lets be honest, this game is still not ready for release...	
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What about creating a new money which can be earned by doing silver/gold adventures/dungeons then buy some gear with it ?
It will solve some rng problems, because it's really annoying to make about 100 gold runs for nothing when someone else can get his gear first try with good rune slots...	
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AMG people...this is most likely NOT intended to work this way.
 
Incoming Hotfix....
 
THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!	
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{| class="blockquote"
You can rest assured that I will be making the player POV and feedback *very* clear to the developers. ;)
Sadly they are the only ones who can comment on if and why this would/would not be changed further. I'm just here to clarify a few things and pass on good feedback.
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			This change is actually awful.. just ran 4 vet adv and received gold... In all that time i received  1 epic. This has actually made more issues. People are still leaving if gold isn't achieved. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
AMG people...this is most likely NOT intended to work this way.
 
Incoming Hotfix....
 
THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!
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{| class="blockquote"
Here is what carbine originally said. Its very clear. What you were getting out of a gold run before will now drop from the final bosses (aka winning). That is NOT what is implemented now as Gold always guaranteed you purples and no longer does so.
 
The existing gold medal rewards are being removed from gold medal completion.
o   These rewards will instead drop off the final bosses or encounters for dungeons and adventures.
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{| class="blockquote"
The more skilled players won't like less skilled players getting same items for worse performance
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What I find almost hilarious if not for the simple fact that I'm seething is that after reading all these patch notes, especially the ones from yesterday, I still can't get into dungeons or adventure to experience the "changes". Why? Because ALL of my HEALING GEARS went *poof!* from my bag. I did not sell it, I did not bank it, I did not wear it as a costume and no, I did not delete it. I've had 2 step-authentication since BEFORE the whole "i'll give you a mount just get the 2 step". So yesterday's patchnote of: "Some of the missing items will be at the mail" BS did not happen to me. In fact, both patches did nothing at all to change my situation and after I sent a ticket all I have ever been getting is this RP-heavy Customer Service cookie cutter response, "Hi, gosh we're swamped but, dont you worry cupcake we will get to you!". How the hell does this happen? I have never played an MMO where my gears went missing, not for a few hours and certainly not for a few days. Know why? Because that is a gamebreaking bug. How am I expected to "play" their game if the gears that I do that with simply disappears!? To top it off, since I will be healing in a dungeon and I know it is extensive I, for the good of everyone around me, went ahead and runed it ALL. Down to the freaking Implant. It cost me a good 10 plat just to rune it all and was meticulous in my selecting the gear slots that amounted me having Elder Rune Set being attained - 3 in fact. Will they restore my items to me complete? Or are they just going to give me some greens, or, blues? Or simple ignore me.
 
THAT, is a bug. THAT should probably be looked at right now. I mean, sure, people that hasn't experienced it doesn't care too much for why it is happening to me. But, really down the road when you get all your beautiful PURPLES and you've runed it just oh so right and then you went to sleep and wake up with it gone... then, people will understand and probably lose their @#$%. It's one thing for gears to go white and stats go missing for 24 hours, completely different when I am now counting days and every single piece of GEAR in your arsenal is now missing. Imagine that on raid night.	
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{| class="blockquote"
As someone that can pretty consistently get gold, don't speak for me.  The "more skilled players" have access to better gear just by virtue of being skilled enough to do raids and high level PvP - even though the latter will be of most import after the PvP stat re-factorization.
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{| class="blockquote"
Besides, it is my opinion, not a fact, so yes, I can "speak for you" from my perspective only.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's not speaking for other people, and should not be described as such.  If you're giving your opinion, that's fine.  Don't try to give it extra weight by saying that more people than you feel that way.  If they do, they're more than welcome to come out and say it.
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{| class="blockquote"
As someone that can pretty consistently get gold, don't speak for me.  The "more skilled players" have access to better gear just by virtue of being skilled enough to do raids and high level PvP - even though the latter will be of most import after the PvP stat re-factorization.
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			Gold medal should always guarantee at least one epic item, that's really the only change the new system needs: give players that usually get gold what they already had without removing the benefits that the new system brings to the table for everyone, specially for pugs.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Gold medal should always guarantee at least one epic item, that's really the only change the new system needs: give players that usually get gold what they already had without removing the benefits that the new system brings to the table for everyone, specially for pugs.
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			Is it even worth doing adv at this point? i need some of the pre raid BiS epics from Adv and now i can't even get epics to drop. My problem wen from getting the right epic to drop to now just getting a purple item to appear. Carbine why are you punishing premade groups that had golds  figured out? 	
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Easy fix: Toggle normal (bronze) and Veteran/hard (Silver/gold) with the appropriate loot not based off RNG.
We put the time and effort into attaining gold we should be rewarded for doing so not leave it to chance.
 
We have enough RNG.
ENOUGH WITH THE RNG.
AGAIN, WE DO NOT WANT DIABLO 3.	
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I'm curious about the actual math, not anecdotal complaints. Please comment with the piece of data I don't know. I assume each player has 1 desired piece of epic in each loot table (previous gold, current boss, current total instance).
 
Previous system:
 
1/X chance at epic with gold where X=the number of items in the gold loot table.
 
Current system:
 
1/Y + [1-(1-(1/Z))^3)] chance at epic with gold where Y=the number of items in the boss loot table and Z=total items in instance. First function is boss roll, 2nd is the medal bonus rolls.
 
For Crimelords from wildstarloot.com as example X=8, Y=??, Z=40
 
So:
 
Previous:
12.5% chance
 
Current (if there are 20 items in the "final boss" loot table):
 
5% + 7.3% = 12.3% chance
 
If the "final boss" loot table has 20 items one of which includes your desired epic, there is basically no change in loot in the grand scheme of things if you get gold. Not to mention the benefit if someone screws up you still have 5% + 5% if you get silver vs. the previous 0% chance.
 
If the boss table has significantly more than 20 items, or something is bugged, then the chance at gold guaranteed epics has been significantly reduced.	
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			5 Golds, 0 epics.Keep on telling us how it didn't change all that much.	
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			Is blues in adventures became better? More armor, more stats?	
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			Maybe I should just spec towards dps since support power tanks not getting any love. Very frustrating...	
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Is it even worth doing adv at this point? i need some of the pre raid BiS epics from Adv and now i can't even get epics to drop. My problem wen from getting the right epic to drop to now just getting a purple item to appear. Carbine why are you punishing premade groups that had golds  figured out? 
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Honestly I have no idea, this change makes me want to slit my wrist since I changed mains and will have to beg four other plays to run this 3 to 4 times as many times to re-eqiup my character.
 
I may just got back to my warrior and hope the tank changes come REAL soon and not in December since they didn't have a drop date on that patch...
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			So PVP gear is worthless, and vet advs and dungeons just received this botch of a patch....If you're trying to kill the game pop, GOOD WORK!	
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Is it even worth doing adv at this point? i need some of the pre raid BiS epics from Adv and now i can't even get epics to drop. My problem wen from getting the right epic to drop to now just getting a purple item to appear. Carbine why are you punishing premade groups that had golds  figured out? 
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			Solid!	
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But this is kind of the point. The devs didn't want to make epic loot less rare, so they took the 'guarantee' from gold and put it as 'chance' for every medal (including gold). If they left gold 100% epic and made bronze-silver have a chance, then it would be "dumbed down" a little.
 
I may sound like it but I am not too keen on this change.
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So PVP gear is worthless, and vet advs and dungeons just received this botch of a patch....
 
If you're trying to kill the game pop, GOOD WORK!
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			A bug since today's patch: when I click 'Exit Game' it doesn't exit, it works the same way as the 'Switch Character' button.. just goes to the character select screen... please fix this	
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			I feel like if you get a gold medal it should roll twice(maybe even 3 times) for the bosses loot, I have no problem making money I don't care about a 250% money reward. We are running dungeons for loot not in game gold.	
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A bug since today's patch: when I click 'Exit Game' it doesn't exit, it works the same way as the 'Switch Character' button.. just goes to the character select screen... please fix this
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Without the guarantee epic from gold they have just created a whole new and different issue, so in order to solve a problem, they made a new problem. Just the same way they usually get new bugs when they solve old ones  :D
 
It's fine to encourage groups to complete the dungeon/adventure even if it's not a gold run, but you can't do that by directly discouraging groups that already make gold to simply not run the dungeon at all or get frustrated by too much RNG.
 
The most plausible solution is what i said: gold keeps its benefits, all other medals get the new ones.
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Dungeons and Adventures no longer have unique rewards on Bronze, Silver and Gold Medal rewards.
 
Wow. The casual-ing begins.	
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			Am I the only one that feels the game was more stable with less bugs on lauch day? I couldn't be more frustrated with a game.	
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What I find almost hilarious if not for the simple fact that I'm seething is that after reading all these patch notes, especially the ones from yesterday, I still can't get into dungeons or adventure to experience the "changes". Why? Because ALL of my HEALING GEARS went *poof!* from my bag. I did not sell it, I did not bank it, I did not wear it as a costume and no, I did not delete it. I've had 2 step-authentication since BEFORE the whole "i'll give you a mount just get the 2 step". So yesterday's patchnote of: "Some of the missing items will be at the mail" BS did not happen to me. In fact, both patches did nothing at all to change my situation and after I sent a ticket all I have ever been getting is this RP-heavy Customer Service cookie cutter response, "Hi, gosh we're swamped but, dont you worry cupcake we will get to you!". How the hell does this happen? I have never played an MMO where my gears went missing, not for a few hours and certainly not for a few days. Know why? Because that is a gamebreaking bug. How am I expected to "play" their game if the gears that I do that with simply disappears!? To top it off, since I will be healing in a dungeon and I know it is extensive I, for the good of everyone around me, went ahead and runed it ALL. Down to the freaking Implant. It cost me a good 10 plat just to rune it all and was meticulous in my selecting the gear slots that amounted me having Elder Rune Set being attained - 3 in fact. Will they restore my items to me complete? Or are they just going to give me some greens, or, blues? Or simple ignore me.
 
THAT, is a bug. THAT should probably be looked at right now. I mean, sure, people that hasn't experienced it doesn't care too much for why it is happening to me. But, really down the road when you get all your beautiful PURPLES and you've runed it just oh so right and then you went to sleep and wake up with it gone... then, people will understand and probably lose their @#$%. It's one thing for gears to go white and stats go missing for 24 hours, completely different when I am now counting days and every single piece of GEAR in your arsenal is now missing. Imagine that on raid night.
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So no post from an employee from Carbine, except back in page 5 or so.  I would truly like to hear how they feel to the majority of there player base that thinks this change is total garbage.  I mean honestly, whats the point of doing this except pissing off a ton of players who could get GOLD, and no there is no reason to even run a f@cking adventure at all.
 
Honestly the more I think about this change the more pissed I get, thought this was going to be a chance to roll purple gear from all the rolls, but nope just from the boss roll.  Thanks Carbine, make me not even want to log in now and rather watch TV or read a book.	
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Huh?
Cupcake is a generic term. I wouldn't take some kind of sexism reference from it... it's nothing to do with your gender (or lack thereof?). It's merely a term they are using to mean anything from 'sh*t' to 'you' to whatever else is appropriate in the situation.
ie. This game is getting all cupcake'ing cupcake'd up.
or. Hey cupcake, I like your name.	
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So these loot changes.... need to be looked at yet again. 5 gold runs between Wotw and Malgrave this morning and not one purple has dropped. My group is to the point that we're not after the blues in adventures- we're looking for the final items to help us progress through silver dungeons and beyond. Gold final bosses should still be guaranteed at least one purple drop. This "extra loot" is still vendor trash for most of us who have run gold adventurers regularly. At least before today we knew our efforts to get gold might be rewarded with the item we actually need. I realize that 5 runs could be considered a small sample size however, yesterday there would have been at least 5 purple drops (actually with mal dropping 2 it would have been 6 total). Therefore- its been a nerf for those of us lucky enough to get gold consistently. 
 
I've been telling myself that- yes its only been a month. Yes things will change... I very much enjoy playing the game- however the continued issues with bugs, unstable encounters and overall lack of response from the devs who are supposedly "listening"... but not responding- is getting very frustrating. 
 
This game could be very successful and without a doubt be enjoyable for years to come-- however if your customer service and response to issues that are affecting gameplay are going to continue to take as long as they have- I know for myself that I'll be walking away because its just not enjoyable wondering what will go wrong when i take a que for a dungeon, adventure or even try to just quest. 
 
As ShellShoq put it- Customer Service needs to be a focal point and you need to respond. 	
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Dungeons and Adventures no longer have unique rewards on Bronze, Silver and Gold Medal rewards.
 
Wow. The casual-ing begins.
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Huh?
Cupcake is a generic term. I wouldn't take some kind of sexism reference from it... it's nothing to do with your gender (or lack thereof?). It's merely a term they are using to mean anything from 'sh*t' to 'you' to whatever else is appropriate in the situation.
ie. This game is getting all cupcake'ing cupcake'd up.
or. Hey cupcake, I like your name.
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The most plausible solution is what i said: gold keeps its benefits, all other medals get the new ones.
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			I can see this game falling flat on its arse. Dont know how much more of this trash I (and others I speak to) can take.	
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			from what ive seen ive ran 7 war of the wilds 0 epics and none of the blues are upgrades ... most of my guild decided to stop running them they are pointless there is no way im gonna spend 20 min  - 1 hour in a adventure with nothing to even show for it and im not referring to me getting loot no 1 wants the loot all blues that are not up grades they should re evaluate this change ty carbine  i think u should at least post here to clear this up plz	
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 I would truly like to hear how they feel to the majority of there player base that thinks this change is total garbage. 
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			Maybe this is going to be a good thing. I think it was too easy to get purples before. Shouldn't the natural progression of things be adventures -> dungeons ->raids? You can skip that middle step all together by running adventures for all of your epics. My friend and I have been avoiding dungeons for this same reason. Groups disband so much but now we are excited to learn the dungeon mechanics so that we can get gear from them and progress to raids.	
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I can see this game falling flat on its arse. Dont know how much more of this trash I (and others I speak to) can take.
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			Carbine you managed to make you game worse... Not only are adventure modes some of the most mundane things I've done in an MMO, they took up to an hour... I've haven't been motivated much since I've logged in countless hours into your lame adventure modes, and now I'm pretty sure I wont play. I think you guys are handling this all wrong hardcore does not make a game better..	
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			Yay thanks Devs for fixing "Crush" I was really dissappointed yesterday while playing when I didn't see the fist of doom!	
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{| class="blockquote"
Huh?
Cupcake is a generic term. I wouldn't take some kind of sexism reference from it... it's nothing to do with your gender (or lack thereof?). It's merely a term they are using to mean anything from 'sh*t' to 'you' to whatever else is appropriate in the situation.
ie. This game is getting all cupcake'ing cupcake'd up.
or. Hey cupcake, I like your name.
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These are gold challenge runs, in a veteran level instance, you should no more accomodate pugs for this, than you would for a raid instance.
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The door is right there
 
<-----
 
don't just talk the talk, man up and walk the walk, ya?
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I don't know if it's derogatory, but it definitely isn't complimentary. If I were to go into my office and call my supiorers cupcake, I doubt I would get the stamp of approval. I don't want to even think about what could happen if I called any of my female clients "Cupcake". Doubt I would be working with that client anymore... so yeah, seems to be a bit derogatory to me.
 
But maybe it is not so much derogatory as it is demeaning.
 
Trust me, I am all about not being over sensative, but words can mean different things based on the audiance or recieving party. With carbine's issues so far post launch, I don't believe they have room to be snarky/sarcastic.
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Without the guarantee epic from gold they have just created a whole new and different issue, so in order to solve a problem, they made a new problem. Just the same way they usually get new bugs when they solve old ones  :D
 
 
 
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This indeed is the essence of the issue at hand.
 
I'll ask everyone again... Why are randomly matched pugs going into a veteran end game instance expecting to have success in its hardest mode? They shouldn't be, which is why removing medals from auto matched groups seems like the best solution. Has the side benefit of building a stronger community.
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You can rest assured that I will be making the player POV and feedback *very* clear to the developers. ;)
Sadly they are the only ones who can comment on if and why this would/would not be changed further. I'm just here to clarify a few things and pass on good feedback.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ BE AWARE~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carabine is doing damage control they are taking the time to LOCK all threats related to the backslash for the new loot system, they are pretty much killing any topic related to this issue, what a shame Carabine you should feel a shame of silence people just because they are saying there are to many threats about it, this is message they are Posting << Since we've already got quite a few threads going on the new medal changes, I'm going to lock this one and ask that everyone continue the discussion there. Thanks! >> notice how they don't tell you where to keep the discussion going... that just wrong...	
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Locking people out of rewards if they happen to do well is one of the more asinine 'solutions' I've seen yet.
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Just like you said, audience matters. Context also matters. We've used cupcake as a friendly term for over a year now. It's no one's problem except your own if you bring outside standards into the community and try to apply them. 
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To clarify;
 
The change is intentional. Completing a Gold Run no longer *guarantees* an Epic Drop. Instead the medal will give you more chances to roll on the instance loot table, which has a wide list of items including Blue, and Purple item.
 
So, you beat the Dungeon/Adventure on ANY difficulty = 1 roll on the Bosses loot table = Chance for Epics and Superiors (Blues)
 
You get Bronze = one roll on the instance loot table (Again, range of items, including Epics). Silver you get two rolls and Gold you get three rolls.
 
In theory, a group could beat a Dungeon/Adventure on Gold and get four Epic Items drop. Equally they can have four Blue items drop. It's RNG.
 
The intent of this change was not to make getting Epics easier, but to stop players from disbanding as soon as they failed to meet Gold requirements. Now, every group has a chance of getting an Epic item for just defeating the boss despite the medal they earn, but can get MORE epic items if they perform well.
 
That's the explanation, we'll make sure to pass your feedback to Timetraveller and the Content team on this, but I can't say if anything is going to change.
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5 gold war of the wilds, 0 epics.  I had 2 reasons to do adventures before the most recent patch.  1.  To cap elder points, and 2. For the small chance of a nice rune slotted pve piece to hold me over until the pvp patch.
 
Now I have 0 reason, as a roll chance on blues just isn't worth my time.  Newsflash, you don't need that gear to progress in the game, so few people will want to run it.  Queue times will go up, making players find the new way to get the quick epics they need.
 
People get paid to release things like this?	
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This has been happening for me since the game came out, but yes, definitely still an issue
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No, the most plauseable solution is what Lethality said a few pages back, which is to remove all medal runs from the group finder, and revert those medal rewards to how they were previously.
 
These are gold challenge runs, in a veteran level instance, you should no more accomodate pugs for this, than you would for a raid instance.
 
There are several options for a person to form a group of like minded people, and have a higher chance at success, you are not owed a garunteed success from logging in and hitting a button. It's your choice to pug, and a pug is always at greater risk of not getting what you want.
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