Report 1326

Report #1326
Skillset: Celestialism Skill: New
 Org: Celestines Status: Completed Mar 2015
Furies' Decision:
We're looking into the pledges tables for both celestines and nihilists (see
envoys post 746)
Problem: With the conversion of vapors into recklessness, the Celestines are
left with three afflictions out of five originally to choose from in the
Shakiniel's pledged list of afflictions. The loss of vapors is in need of
replacement with the alternative of blackout, which has a similar function to
vapors but without the periodic blackout and knockdown if vapors was left
uncured. This alternative instead is cured by time, which is a short duration,
or by allheale as the alternative cure. Vapors basically being removed, placed a
crux in Celestine styles of combat that had its place in different ways in
killing with any method provided to Celestian with what they are given. This
report seeks to replace it, and additionally will propose filling the missing
fifth affliction in the Shakiniel pledge
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Add a fourth Shakiniel affliction called blackout or
 a name/afflict that gives blackout
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Solution 1, include confusion to fill the missing
 fifth affliction
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: Solution 1, include epilepsy to fill the missing
 fifth affliction
Player Comments:
---[Shuyin on 2/25 @ 06:13 writes]:
Fine with this provided that the blackout given is of a similarly short duration
only.
---[Raeri on 2/25 @ 06:31 writes]:
Support. I could also see giving the proposed blackout a knockdown as well, as
there is no longer a 'cure' needed for the new suggestion, and there is no
longer a threat of recurrent blackouts if left 'uncured'.
---[Yurika on 2/25 @ 21:02 writes]:
I can agree with that, Shuyin
---[Lerad on 2/28 @ 03:06 writes]:
I would rather blackout be added into Celestialism via a new (active) skill.
Perhaps a delayed skill of some sort, so that Celestines can continue to use it
to hide stuff like soulless throws if they want, instead of putting it into the
skillset as a passive ability. Passive blackout is always frustrating to deal
with, and at the same time, passive blackout also does not take a curative
balance to cure the same way vapours did. Replacing vapours with blackout is a
general nerf to Celestialism while at the same time retaining the frustrating
aspect of having to deal with blackout constantly, passively. Lose-lose for
everyone involved. Also of note is that kneel is already a knockdown, right?
Adding knockdown to blackout will just make it replace kneel entirely. Instead
of blackout, how about something like confusion (ab file says Shakinel confuses
target, but there's no confusion in the powers list), or epilepsy, both of which
take up a curative balance to cure, and have a (strong) persistent effect if
left uncured. Useful for Celestines, no frustrating passive blackout to deal
with for everyone else. Win-win!
---[Yurika on 2/28 @ 18:02 writes]:
Well, I could as well have Shakiniel's fourth afflict that is currently missing
to have confusion as well to be considered to fill in what we are missing due to
the changeover of afflictions into other afflictions, as another option if
that's feasible.
---[Yurika on 2/28 @ 18:03 writes]:
To which also, obfuscation to me means masking or hiding, so blackout would fit
this perfectly.
---[Jaamil on 3/1 @ 19:37 writes]:
Supported to have blackout.
---[Maligorn on 3/1 @ 21:22 writes]:
Supported.
---[Siam on 3/2 @ 10:45 writes]:
I will also raise the matter of the removal from Vapors from Hexes affecting
Hexens everywhere. I support this report if a similar affliction, Blacked Out,
be created in Hexes as well.
---[Maligorn on 3/2 @ 17:03 writes]:
I don't agree with the notion that Hexes needs blackout back.
---[Siam on 3/3 @ 02:27 writes]:
Uhhh, why is that? Vapors got removed. Hexes lost vapors. Celestines lost
vapors. Was the point of the overhaul to remove access to blackout for hexes?
No. Vapors was removed because of the recurring blackout it gave if left
uncured. If the celestines are asking for blackout back(and mind you, it's a one
time blackout not the recurring incarnation from vapors) then I don't see any
reason why hexens(illuminati, moondancersshadowdancers,nihilists) shouldn't get
it as well.
---[Siam on 3/3 @ 02:50 writes]:
Reading back, I realize that my previous comment seems too snarky. That was not
the intention. I also would like to reiterate that I am asking for hexen access
to blackout again. The incarnation for the shakiniel incarnation is a passive
blackout as opposed to active blackout to be given by hexen. If the duration is
the issue, it can be addressed by admin and adjusted accordingly.
---[Yurika on 3/3 @ 02:54 writes]:
I don't oppose hexens having access to blackout, as long as the restrictions are
similar or the same.
---[Maligorn on 3/3 @ 04:57 writes]:
I don't think Hexes needs blackout back. They have plenty of afflicting power
without needing to hide it. Celestines, on the other hand, relied heavily on
their blackout. By your argument, I should say that Loralaria VioletVibrato
should have blackout added to its list of afflictions back again.
---[Siam on 3/3 @ 11:44 writes]:
If VioletVibrato previously afflicted with vapors and got hit the overhaul, by
all means feel free to ask for blackout, too. Vapors/blackout provided a brief
time frame where hexen can mask afflictions without having to burn
power(doublewhammy) with vapors gone we have to burn power if we want to hide
affs. In fact, it won't even be the same as before where the blackout was
recurring. We have to actively keep afflicting with it and this report is even
asking to shorten the duration from the old incarnation. So yes, I am asking for
that choice back, even if it's a downgraded version.
---[Maligorn on 3/4 @ 00:33 writes]:
The reason I'm not asking for blackout for VV is because it got recklessness and
paranoia in return during the Overhaul. It's already a very strong passive song
effect that doesn't need blackout tacked back onto it. I'm applying that same
mindset to Hexes.
---[Siam on 3/4 @ 18:14 writes]:
Which got nothing in return for the removal of vapors. VV got something in
return. Spot the difference.
---[Siam on 3/4 @ 18:19 writes]:
Oh, and in case anyone needs a little reminder: barring hexensoles, nothing in
hexes passively afflicts people. VV, as mentioned, is a recurring song effect
that had SOMETHING replace its loss of vapors. Aren't we comparing apples and
oranges here?
---[Silvanus on 3/5 @ 03:36 writes]:
I have 0 problem with this. Blackout isn't going to be as useful anymore (as all
hidden affs will lose some of their usefulness when going from 20+ cures down to
4) and so the issue of it being common isn't that big of a deal anymore. @Siam:
Envoy it, you have a slot open, let's not distract away from a Celestine report
over a skill they don't even get.
---[Viynain on 3/5 @ 03:44 writes]:
Support for reintroducing Blackout to Raziela's pledge list, provided it has the
shorter duration Vapors had. As well, it seems buggy to me that Shakiniel's
pledge list dropped down to the current three of Anorexia, Clumsiness, and
Paranoia only. Prior to the changes, Shakiniel had Anorexia, Dementia,
Claustrophobia, Hypochondria, and Paranoia -- the fourth option should have been
Hallucinations after replacing Claustrophobia. Did something change between my
records, or was this an oversight?
---[Maligorn on 3/10 @ 00:07 writes]:
I'd postulate that Hallucinations isn't Supernal-y enough if it was
intentionally left off.
---[Kaimanahi on 3/11 @ 00:12 writes]:
I support the reinstatement of blackout as an angel aff. Further, I would add a
Solution 2/3 to read as: Solution 1, in addition to filling the missing fifth
Shakiniel affliction with confusion/epilepsy. Or suggest some aff to fill the
5th slot; no reason to Envoy this again.
---[Yurika on 3/11 @ 02:19 writes]:
Kaimanahi had brought a very good point, as its rather silly to envoy this again
when it can be done like what is suggested. As far as hallucinations is
concerned, it is very in-line with the thematics of Celestine style of
hindrances which means they are meant to stop, interrupt or immobilize,
hallucinations procs a stun as it is intended to, to that end it is obsolete
that we have access to hallucinations twice which is pointless. It currently
resides in Japhiel's and Raziela's list of afflictions, to which I'll be looking
into the deletion of two occurences of hallucinations for something more in line
with the style of the pledge's types they're suppose to hinder with.
---[Jaamil on 3/11 @ 18:15 writes]:
In that case, I can support solution 2
---[Rivius on 3/12 @ 11:18 writes]:
I agree with Shuyin's comment that as long as the blackout is of short duration,
this replacement is appropriate. In retrospect, all instances of vapors *should*
have been replaced with a short blackout in the first place.
---[Maligorn on 3/13 @ 21:54 writes]:
I support changing vapors across the board with a short blackout if the admin
think it's balanced enough to do so.
---[Xenthos on 3/30 @ 02:36 writes]:
I agree with Rivius. All instances of vapors should have been replaced with the
short blackout (same duration as vapors). Difference is that it won't be
recurring if not cured (because it is just blackout). This is fine. It is a
nerf, but effectively a non-existant one since everyone was curing vapors pretty
quickly anyways.