148027-space-chase-expeditions-lack-incentives

== Content ==
			
Just to clarify, I am not talking about the decor rewards you can buy with ekobits from the trader.  I think they look great, either for building the ships or using bits and bobs around my housing plot, and I plan on collecting all three.
 
It is going to take a long time, and the problem is that there isn't really any incentive to try very hard whilst grinding for eko particles.
 
Playing through an expedition with a group gives the same amount of particles as playing solo, and whilst you get a bit of extra renown (meh) from playing in a group it takes a lot longer especially if people insist on doing all of the optional tasks.
 
Which brings me on to the loot bags for completing an expedition during this event.  They have absolutely no bearing on how many eko particles you earn nor (as far as I am aware) do the reward bags have a chance of containing any of the event decor/creatures/models.  If you're running expeditions with the aim of getting gold each time, either for the renown or you want another soulbound spaceship gathering dust in you're housing crate, then that's fine.  But if you're only in an expedition for this event to collect particles, then there really is no reason to complete any of the optional tasks.
 
Like I say, I plan on collecting all three complete spaceships, but it is going to be boring.  The quickest way for me to collect particles is to stealth through the same expedition over and over with my stalker.
 
It sucks but you haven't really given us any reason to group up or play each expedition fully during this event.	
----
			In the end I would say there ~are~ reasons, you just don't think they're good ones according to your needs. :P   But it pretty much comes down to extra renown and the loot bag (which can contain dyes and other useful decor like Maintenance Platforms and Dominion/Exile Screens, as well as the full ship decor).	
----
			
I never group for Expeditions anymore unless we're all in voice-comms together.
 
I can Gold every Expedition, by myself, every single time on any one of four characters. I don't need anyone else slowing me down.
 
My worry is they're going to do an event like this and it's going to be based around Adventures and/or Dungeons. THAT is going to make me cranky unless the rewards for solo'ing low-level content gives the same reward as grouping at 50.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
In the end I would say there ~are~ reasons, you just don't think they're good ones according to your needs. :P   But it pretty much comes down to extra renown and the loot bag (which can contain dyes and other useful decor like Maintenance Platforms and Dominion/Exile Screens, as well as the full ship decor).
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I agree there are better rewards for achieving gold in expeditions - but I am talking specifically about this event.
 
If you were endlessly farming expeditions for gold before this event kicked in, then you're quids in.
 
But if you have done expeditions to death already long before this event was thought up, chances are you're only running expeditions for particles and the incentive just isn't there for me personally to waste even more time doing a longer grouped version of the expedition or completing all of the optional tasks and prolonging the grind.
 
If the amount of eko particles you earnt scaled with the size of your group, or each reward chest contained a number of bonus particles based on the medal you achieved then it would be a different story.
----
			
I'm pretty sure you get Particles for completing optional objectives.
 
But eh. Do it if you think it's fun; if you don't, then don't. It's given my husband and our friend an objective to work on just the three of us together over the weekend, and the decor is cool. So...	
----
			
I have incentive enough, I stepped into them even if solo which I would otherwise not have done.
And I will farm for all three ships so I will run expeditions good enough :)
Being able to do them solo gives me a lot of flexibility as well, since I have other things to do, so if I can take a break from studies and hop in and do one and then continue... it's awesome :)	
----
			It really comes down to gold.  If you save the money bags you get from rewards and than use flask of greed and the flask of money you get from store, and you can get alot of gold from it.  I think just using the flask of greed, i'm getting 40-50g a run after selling everything and thats not to count pets/mounts.  But just the gear.  @50g a run, taking 10-15 minutes a run, thats at least 2p an hour.  With that plat, I can buy the ships too so even less time.  Honestly, my biggest grip with this event, in order to get the music tracks or the space companions for your plot, than you have to purchase them from the store which imo is bs.  And on top of that it's random.  I did the $5 worth of ncoins and got 1 guy and bunch of space parts, no music.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
We explicitly put the Eko Particles on required objectives so that you could choose whether or not you wanted to work toward gold in the instance. If the gold rewards interest you, then by all means, go for both! If they don't interest you, either because you outgear it or it's simply not the sort of reward you're after, you're not required to do so to participate in the Space Chase event. We kept the amount the same whether solo or grouped to avoid some potentially exploitable spots. That isn't to say that other events won't have a different way of going about it, but we wanted to see how this particular method worked out. Thanks, as always, for your feedback! It'll help us plan for the future. :)
----
			We explicitly put the Eko Particles on required objectives so that you could choose whether or not you wanted to work toward gold in the instance. If the gold rewards interest you, then by all means, go for both! If they don't interest you, either because you outgear it or it's simply not the sort of reward you're after, you're not required to do so to participate in the Space Chase event. We kept the amount the same whether solo or grouped to avoid some potentially exploitable spots. That isn't to say that other events won't have a different way of going about it, but we wanted to see how this particular method worked out. Thanks, as always, for your feedback! It'll help us plan for the future. :)	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
We explicitly put the Eko Particles on required objectives so that you could choose whether or not you wanted to work toward gold in the instance. If the gold rewards interest you, then by all means, go for both! If they don't interest you, either because you outgear it or it's simply not the sort of reward you're after, you're not required to do so to participate in the Space Chase event. We kept the amount the same whether solo or grouped to avoid some potentially exploitable spots. That isn't to say that other events won't have a different way of going about it, but we wanted to see how this particular method worked out. Thanks, as always, for your feedback! It'll help us plan for the future. :)
----
			I agree. It's worked out great, Caydiem. :)	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
We explicitly put the Eko Particles on required objectives so that you could choose whether or not you wanted to work toward gold in the instance. If the gold rewards interest you, then by all means, go for both! If they don't interest you, either because you outgear it or it's simply not the sort of reward you're after, you're not required to do so to participate in the Space Chase event. We kept the amount the same whether solo or grouped to avoid some potentially exploitable spots. That isn't to say that other events won't have a different way of going about it, but we wanted to see how this particular method worked out. Thanks, as always, for your feedback! It'll help us plan for the future. :)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm pretty sure you get Particles for completing optional objectives.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Huge thanks for clarifying that, Caydiem, I had wondered.
 
But I kind of wish that you had added particles for the optionals, at the very least. It's already an extremely grindy event: something like 25 M-13's or 9 DSE's per ship. Extra particles on the optionals, ideally enough to double the reward if you got them all, would have made this a lot less painful of an event, would have made it possible to do anything else during these 10 days and still get a couple of ships out of it. At the current reward rate, unless you play a lot more hours a day than most, the only way you're going to complete more than one ship is if all you do for 10 days straight is grind expeditions. Surely that wasn't intentional?
 
P.S. I would swear that we were told, a week ago last Friday during the livestream, that particles were BoE and chits weren't. Instead it's the other way around. Bug?
----
			
In a slight tangent: may I ask what's the logic behind having two currencies? Particles can't be used for anything but transforming them to chits. Why not just give us the 'already converted' ammount of Chits directly? If the answer is 'because Chits aren't tradeable' then...why not? Why not just give us tradeable Chits and call it a day instead of having this weird middle step in the way? What do Particles add that I'm not seeing?
 
Or is it to artificially bloat the number the players SEE in the adventure so they feel it's generous when in fact it's just a psycological trick? :P
			
				
	Edited December 10, 2015 by Ildur	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
In a slight tangent: may I ask what's the logic behind having two currencies? Particles can't be used for anything but transforming them to chits. Why not just give us the 'already converted' ammount of Chits directly? If the answer is 'because Chits aren't tradeable' then...why not? Why not just give us tradeable Chits and call it a day instead of having this weird middle step in the way? What do Particles add that I'm not seeing?
 
Or is it to artificially bloat the number the players SEE in the adventure so they feel it's generous when in fact it's just a psycological trick? :P
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I doubt it's anything sinister. Might just be a lore thing. Would be pretty strange to say there's chits floating around to collect than to say there are eko particles to collect. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
My only feedback on the event is that I don't see why they keep adding these short events that might or might not ever come back. Why not add themed boxes to the store, like these space chase boxes, that change every month instead of a couple days and then all go poof after a few. Players would know that in July the, I dunno, savanna themed random loot box will be in the store, or in January the eldan themed box will be in the store. They'd have NPCs, maybe music, exclusive decor, costumes, etc. There would always be a random loot box in the store to spend money on, and people would know for sure they'd be coming around again if they didn't get the items they wanted. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
My only feedback on the event is that I don't see why they keep adding these short events that might or might not ever come back. Why not add themed boxes to the store, like these space chase boxes, that change every month instead of a couple days and then all go poof after a few. Players would know that in July the, I dunno, savanna themed random loot box will be in the store, or in January the eldan themed box will be in the store. They'd have NPCs, maybe music, exclusive decor, costumes, etc. There would always be a random loot box in the store to spend money on, and people would know for sure they'd be coming around again if they didn't get the items they wanted. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I can Gold every Expedition, by myself, every single time on any one of four characters. I don't need anyone else slowing me down.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
We explicitly put the Eko Particles on required objectives so that you could choose whether or not you wanted to work toward gold in the instance. If the gold rewards interest you, then by all means, go for both! If they don't interest you, either because you outgear it or it's simply not the sort of reward you're after, you're not required to do so to participate in the Space Chase event. We kept the amount the same whether solo or grouped to avoid some potentially exploitable spots. That isn't to say that other events won't have a different way of going about it, but we wanted to see how this particular method worked out. Thanks, as always, for your feedback! It'll help us plan for the future. :)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Some really quick feedback:
Particle droprate/amount may have been TOO generous. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Even Rage Logic?  Don't you have to kill the 3 Overseers at the same time (more or less)?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Some really quick feedback:
Particle droprate/amount may have been TOO generous.  People are doing one day of farming (6 hours at most) and getting all 3 without breaking a sweat.  Was this intended?
Should have possibly done about half the particle reward that it is now, but additional bonus particles for doing optional objectives AND a 'group bonus' for doing them as a group.
Queueing only provides 3 players for Farside Expedition (the level 6 one) whereas you can make a 5-person farming group if you group up ahead of time.  Is this intended?
There was not much clarity on whether a level 50 could 'rally' down to the level 6 Farside Expedition, speedrun it repeatedly, and get all their particles with little effort, Is this intended?
 
----
			
The particle drop is not too generous.
There are always people with lots of spare time that can grind it all in one day because... well, they can.
However, a lot of people have other things to do during the day... they perhaps got 1-2 hours to spend an evening to play and for them the droprate is good.
When one is considering droprates it should be considered as it is now: let everyone have a chance. 
It should not be adapted to hardcore players that will always consume content fastest rate possible.
I have spent a few hours playing I think, and I still haven't enough marks for parts of one ship... 
Droprate vs event duration is good according to me.	
----
			
I kind of want these things to remain in the game instead of being publicity for the shameless cash grab RNG boxes. I would be fine with a 'event rotation' of sorts, but I don't want Carbine to fall into the 'the coolest things are in an RNG box!' sickness.
 
{| class="blockquote"
 
Particle droprate/amount may have been TOO generous.  People are doing one day of farming (6 hours at most) and getting all 3 without breaking a sweat.  Was this intended?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
We figured some folks were going to go at it until they got everything. Remember that some of the appeal is not only building ships, but picking up decor pieces you can use in building other things. Some of those lights and vents are pretty sweet (and I probably need a couple dozen, personally).
 
Again, we avoided group bonuses to prevent some potentially exploitative behavior. Optionals are certainly something we can look into for the future.
 
Queueing for Expeditions has always grouped you with 3 people to prevent long queue times. You are, of course, welcome to take a full group in. Expeditions scale from 1-5 people, after all. This is absolutely intended.
 
Level 50s who may be fresh and unable to tear through Veteran Expeditions can absolutely rally down instead and get their particles that way if they choose. Higher levels getting particles through rallying was also, yes, intended. :)
----
			Carbine does not need you as their guardian angel. Consumers should not be working against their own best interests. The event is fun right now. You want to make it a horrible chore. That is not good, and I'm glad Caydiem agrees!
			
				
	Edited December 11, 2015 by Naunet	
----
			
I get that some people might feel that you should get "a little extra" from subscribing during the event.
I don't think touching rewards earnt ingame is the right solution to this.
However if there should be some promotion for signature, perhaps:
"If you are a signature member or become one during the event we will give you x boxes to open" (say like 5 of each version or something).
That's the approach I would go for.	
----
			
I must admit...I was gonna pass this event since I haven't done any of the expeditions (except fragment zero) since no one does them unless they're high level to solo them or in guilds and random queues are pure evil.
 
But after the little dev event (which I didn't fight with one since they disconnected), some of the decor looked amazing and I bought some wings for my house.
 
I might do some runs for my other character as well; can't have 1 character have all the fun. Also....the gaget gear the event drops.....they're quite interesting.	
----
			
Expeditions can be solo'd easily as long as you are at the level or above.  They have no set time limit and are scaled to the number of players that join up.
If you are level 50, you can rally down if needed and it is significantly easier to do lower-level expeditions due to the gear & LAS available skills.	
----
			
I would say that this event is a success.  Why?  Because it got our guild active enough that we had not one, but TWO groups doing expeditions last night.  We were having races to see which group could finish first, and of course, testing the limits (which objectives you could skip, how many particles were rewarded, what levels to go through).  We didn't come here for information first (which might have saved a lot of experimentation), but we DID have fun, as a guild, doing something we might not otherwise have done.
 
Well done, Carbine.  Even if the music part is a pain in the wallet.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Putting on my monetization & game designer hat for a moment:
-Fire all the load of slags doing the current monetization, be they at NcSoft Korea (most likely) or Carbine (less likely).
-I would've made obtaining particles far more of a grind (about 10% of current drop amounts); you'd get a bonus for doing solo-queues with randoms AND an extra bonus for finishing the run even after wipes.  I'd significantly scale particle drops depending on how difficult the instance is.
--I would've expanded these particle drops not just to Expeditions but also to Adventures and Dungeons.  Depending on player data obtained, we could then use it to scale Glory rewards in a similar fashion if desired.
-I would've cut the cash shop costs of paying in half (and promoted it as 'half off regular prices') to promote far more multiple cash-shop sales rather than the skewed 'whales first' mentality that drives garbage freemium mobile crap to invade everything.  Calling your customers 'whales' or treating them as such is disrespectful to everyone.  You can do better, Carbine.
-Additionally I would start daily 'flash' sales of new sales cycling every 20 minutes where a specific item is 50% or more discounted.  Get players anxious and wanting to spend money and have NcCoin banked up to do so.
-I'd cut the complete silence and excuses and just give customers what they want: Account-bound versions of every mount and pet that are equivalent the cost of buying at least 3 of the single-character versions.  Cut the single-character versions by half and then the Account-bound ones won't be as ridiculously expensive.
-The entire dye system would be account-wide by default.  The store would then sell all the dyes that are either rare to obtain in the game or exclusively bundled with other things (though the bundle would be significantly cheaper to obtain for the value you get).
-I'd cut the cost of NcCoin depending on how much is purchased.  The most expensive NcCoin bundle SHOULD NOT be equivalent to the cost of buying the cheapest NcCoin bundle.  What slagging moron thought that was ok!?
-Many other things too long to list.
 
Hey Carbine, I'd love to work for you as a consultant if you can convince NcSoft to play 'hands off' and let you handle your own game completely.  I don't want to work for them or I'd go through the normal application process.
----
			I feel the crates are adding a very severe barrier for entry when it comes to housing items- specifically the music tracks.Forcing people to sink a lot of real money into the game for a slim chance of a track we may never get the chance to get again is unfair and honestly really dishonest. I opened 31 crates in a row searching and got nothing for my trouble I couldnt get off a vendor.And the terrible thing is I normally vote with my wallet and refuse to buy into a system i think shouldnt be perpetuated. but they strangleheld any housing people that want that content. They are literally punishing people for playing it their way- I could spend less by buying the tracks off a scalper than their game but because i did it the proper way I now need to (very likely) go without, or pay (judging by my drop rate) approximately 100 dollars or more for 3 songs. even a top charts CD doesnt cost that much	
----
			wut? the only barrier is rng on getting the music THAT'S IT one item...sorry your butt-hurt from spending real $$...cause ya know someone's gonna pipe up in here an go "1st box i got the music! AND i only paid with omni-bits!" love the ships! love the gold for gold runs, renown, loot i can salvage, dyes to sell or aquire, pets and mounts. just wish the dev's didn't decide to play right before kick-off  :P ...we'll meet again dev's!	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
Putting on my monetization & game designer hat for a moment:
-Fire all the load of slags doing the current monetization, be they at NcSoft Korea (most likely) or Carbine (less likely).
-I would've made obtaining particles far more of a grind (about 10% of current drop amounts); you'd get a bonus for doing solo-queues with randoms AND an extra bonus for finishing the run even after wipes.  I'd significantly scale particle drops depending on how difficult the instance is.
--I would've expanded these particle drops not just to Expeditions but also to Adventures and Dungeons.  Depending on player data obtained, we could then use it to scale Glory rewards in a similar fashion if desired.
-I would've cut the cash shop costs of paying in half (and promoted it as 'half off regular prices') to promote far more multiple cash-shop sales rather than the skewed 'whales first' mentality that drives garbage freemium mobile crap to invade everything.  Calling your customers 'whales' or treating them as such is disrespectful to everyone.  You can do better, Carbine.
-Additionally I would start daily 'flash' sales of new sales cycling every 20 minutes where a specific item is 50% or more discounted.  Get players anxious and wanting to spend money and have NcCoin banked up to do so.
-I'd cut the complete silence and excuses and just give customers what they want: Account-bound versions of every mount and pet that are equivalent the cost of buying at least 3 of the single-character versions.  Cut the single-character versions by half and then the Account-bound ones won't be as ridiculously expensive.
-The entire dye system would be account-wide by default.  The store would then sell all the dyes that are either rare to obtain in the game or exclusively bundled with other things (though the bundle would be significantly cheaper to obtain for the value you get).
-I'd cut the cost of NcCoin depending on how much is purchased.  The most expensive NcCoin bundle SHOULD NOT be equivalent to the cost of buying the cheapest NcCoin bundle.  What slagging moron thought that was ok!?
-Many other things too long to list.
 
Hey Carbine, I'd love to work for you as a consultant if you can convince NcSoft to play 'hands off' and let you handle your own game completely.  I don't want to work for them or I'd go through the normal application process.
----
			How 2 get Eko Particle Achievement im missing it	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That advice is worth about what they paid for it.  You've made the optimal behavior pattern to ditch your friends, get a pickup group and wipe on purpose. 
----