Report 1366

Report #1366
Skillset: Ecology Skill: Familiar
 Org: Harbingers Status: Completed Apr 2016
Furies' Decision:
Solution 1.
Problem: Ecology as a whole is a skillset that is still stuck behind the times.
This report aims to fix a small problem, while alternatively suggesting a
solution to upgade the skillset and Familiars in general.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Ordering your bond to sting takes 3 power every time,
 you should never order it passive. Simply allow the
 Ecologist to pacify and re-order to kill without
 using 3 power until the 10 attacks have been used. Or
 at least change the skill description so curious
 George doesn't have to waste power to figure out if
 it actually works that way.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: The familiar attacks stupidly fast at 4 seconds for 3
 power, plus Snakebonding a snake to give another
 affliction is actually really strong. It's a better
 version of Angels/Demons without the
 beckoning/manakilling. With Deafness requiring
 PurityDust, I could load up 10 applications of
 paralysis on my Familiar (which is what I will be
 doing until this changes, with an occasional ibululu)
 and keep you easily locked down in a room between
 blanknote, paralysis, p5th and whatever else my
 passive bard songs can do to you. My proposal is to
 slow the Familiar down to somewhere between 6 and 12
 seconds and adjust the power cost to compensate,
 while also changing it to attack on command.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: This is the big change suggestion and impacts how
 Familiars work in general. Right now the Familiar
 attacks every 12 seconds for 150 damage. Give the
 Familiar three phases and slightly increase it's
 attack speed (definitely not as fast as 4 seconds,
 but not as slow as 12), the first phase is its normal
 phase, where it does some damage, perhaps breaks
 shields or something slightly useful, maybe unique to
 your Familiar. The second phase is the FamiliarSmudge
 phase, where your Familiar can hold multiple smudges
 and deliver a smudge in the same room as you, instead
 of how that skill works now. The final stage is the
 FamiliarSting phase, where it delivers poison and the
 Snakebond goes in use. Make the 3 power cost the cost
 to switch between Familiar phases, and the familiar
 will keep attacking with that phase until you change
 phases. And finally, for FamiliarBerserk, instead of
 making it attack faster for 6 power, slightly lower
 the power cost. maybe to 2-5 power but have all three
 Phases going at once for 3-10 attacks. This solution
 would require changes to 4 skills (Rebirth,
 FamiliarSmudge, FamiliarSting, and FamiliarBerserk)
 but I believe it would fix a few issues now and
 prevent issues when the overhaul is eventually
 finished.
Player Comments:
---[Silvanus on 4/4 @ 08:15 writes]:
Open to anything. I think the speed and the power cost needs to be adjusted, and
I am sure the skill will also have an impact on FamiliarBerserk, which the power
cost of that skill is too high to be any useful right now and will be getting a
report of its own probably soon. If poison shrugging is to go out the window, a
lot of Ecologist complaints would go away and some problems would come up with
this skill.
---[Lerad on 4/5 @ 08:15 writes]:
I am personally inclined toward solution 3 - full reworks that drop outdated and
possibly abusable mechanics in return for a re-balanced, strategical and fun
mechanic is always a good idea. Regarding the numbers, I'm not sure if 1 poison
ever 4s is too much, but I've never been an ecologist with SnakeBond before. I
think 6s is a good compromise. Maybe different attack timings for the different
phases - 6s passive shield break may be too fast, and a 10s smudge might be too
slow (?). Damage of the normal attacks should probably hover around 300 per 10s
or so? I think that's a number which will be okay with the archetypes that have
access to eco (druids and commune bards) without being overpowering with their
other passives. Regarding the phases, I would suggest making it possible to
specify which phase you want it to be directly (poison phase, or smudge phase)
without having to go through a sequence, but make it last only 5 minutes before
defaulting back to the normal phase. Similarly for berserk, could make it 5p to
last for 30s or 1min, instead of a set number of attacks, especially if you
decide to differentiate the attack times for the different phases.
---[Silvanus on 4/6 @ 03:48 writes]:
All good suggestions, I didn't want to suggest different times for the different
phases to not put too much pressure on coders. The breaking shields was just a
suggestion for a starting point, I do not think it's actually that necessary
(but could be pretty impactful for a skillset that is hurting). If you want
creative, I can definitely come up with a unique attack for every Familiar that
you can have. I think the Familiar's bonuses themselves will need looking at. My
goal with this report is to offer a baseline to build on towards Ecology, I am
not particular on any numbers, and would definitely like Druids input in this
because I've rarely met an Ecologist.
---[Wobou on 4/10 @ 23:56 writes]:
Solution 3 is intriguing, although I'm not sure if I understand the skillset
enough to evaluate it properly. I'm definitely for solution 1, that's more of a
quality of life thing than a balance thing. For solution 2, I'm not sure if
that's actually overpowered but as I mentioned for sol. 3 this could be out of
my ignorance. Solution 2 seems fine, when you say change it to attack on command
do you mean something like ORDER <familiar> STING WOBOU or do you mean
implementing sol 1?
---[Silvanus on 4/11 @ 05:57 writes]:
Exactly Wobou for solution 2. Also combine these solutions with the Report that
has been submitted since August of last year, Report 1372, which is basically
the halfway version of solution 3.
---[Asmodea on 4/13 @ 00:04 writes]:
I'm happy with solution 1 or 2, however depending on whether shrugging remains
or not, the shrug rate at the moment makes the 4 second sting not bad at all,
since the chance of shrugging the attack is quite high reducing its and
snakebonds effectiveness by quite alot. Also just for the record, you can't
envenom a bond with ibululu, however you can use a cobra snakebond. Solution
three does sound very interesting, I'm just worried about passive smudges
however if this is what you meant. Familiar berserk definitely needs some sort
of change as its never been useful imo with its power cost and effects.
---[Silvanus on 4/14 @ 05:39 writes]:
I do not really want to submit this report because I do not think it will be
enough for Ecology, with this report and 1372, I do not think either will be
enough. I do prefer solution 3, and the consensus on report 1372 as well, which
would make it competitive. If smudges are too much, they can be toned down or
adjusted with familiar to compensate, but there have been 5 previous reports on
Familiars. The 6th time is the charm.
---[Silvanus on 4/16 @ 04:26 writes]:
I completely forgot to respond to Asmodea's concerns. I think as long as smudges
are limited in the fashion that they are now for an Ecologist, that you can only
have one prepared at a time, that having a passive smudger is ok. I would say
for balance purposes allow the familiar to hold more than one Smudge at a time,
and limit the Ecologist to just the one in their inventory, so they would have
to fashion each individual smudge that the familiar uses. Also, Harbingers cause
additional poisons and increased dust balance, plus with earache being on dust
balance (at the moment), I figured it would be a good time to look at this now
before it becomes an issue.
---[Wobou on 4/17 @ 15:07 writes]:
Sorry for my delay in response. I can't fully evaluate solution 3 because I
don't know much about ecology but it seems like a good change overall. If your
response ends up quelling Asmodea's concerns then that's enough for me. I
definitely support solution 1 and 2.
---[Enyalida on 4/18 @ 20:54 writes]:
Solution 1 is fine. Make it so that the power cost is tied to envenoming the
familiar, perhaps? No support for solution 2 if the solution is just
"dramatically slow down the affliction rate". I think that a better direction
would be to explore some kind of mechanic by which the ecologist gets an extra
beast-spit-esque mechanic instead of a passive venom application.
---[Enyalida on 4/18 @ 20:57 writes]:
On solution 3, I think there needs to be some clarification. When you say
'phases', I think you mean 'modes' that the ecologist freely activates or
deactivates - in the way that ecologists now pay 3p to turn on familiar stinging
mode. In that case, it would make sense to have the different modes be different
skills peppered throughout the skillset, one of them replacing the existing
(defunct) berserkfamiliar, as you mention.
---[Enyalida on 4/18 @ 20:57 writes]:
However, I'm not really on board with the proposed modes or tying them to
passive bond attacking. Seems to me that the dramatically superior solution
would be to give ecologists a bond balance (like a beast balance) and put the
kinds of things you mention on that bond balance. This could depreciate the
fetish as the sole immediate active ability in the skillset and cleanly
introduce a framework for future upgrades and additions to the skillset.
---[Silvanus on 4/22 @ 03:12 writes]:
I didn't want to suggest giving Familiars their own balance because I have
suggested to that to every single ent class so far. I am all for that changed,
if that is the way to go, but since it hasn't been done to Angels/Demons yet, I
am not sure it will be done for all others. I do think most ent classes should
be on their own balance so it isn't set and forget and provides actual strategy
and game planning. And I meant phases, yes. Passive smudges may be too strong,
perhaps it is and I am open to anything. I just think Ecology could have more
than double fetish spamming, and using ArmouredFamiliar (And
FamiliarSting/Berserk) are the way to upgrade it.