109133-we-need-an-update-on-ampability-points-and-how-to-gain-them

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			I think the title speaks for itself.	
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			Do you mean currently, or whats down the line in the next drop?  Both are easily located using the search button.	
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Last I heard was that they're still tinkering with it or something.
They see that it's dropping more(compared to what it used to be anyway), but also that the fact it can't be placed on the AH/CX makes it ahrder to obtain still, which should be fixed sometime down the line.
 
 
or something like that anyway is what i got form the last nexus report...	
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Get them from world drops / bags or from Elder Gem vendor...
 
They are intentionally rare. You can also purchase them from other players.	
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They upped the drop rate by 100%.  Its still 0.001 chance of dropping.
 
They can drop from PVP bags (most known place because of the pure gurth of bags being given out per match), as well as Scavening Supply bag (Challenges).
 
They can also drop from boom boxes	
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			Bleh.	
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			You are able to put them onto the CX in PTR...maybe that'll come with the next patch?	
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			Who would sell them instead of using them in the first place?	
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Who would sell them instead of using them in the first place?
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			They are also world drops. I've seen a few drop while doing open world quests (by few I mean 3 total)	
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			Lots of people will sell them.  Anyone who isnt concerned with min/max'ing, or realizes that they are in the same state as everyone else and see it as extra.	
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			World drop rate which is suppose to be easier than saving up EG to buy them is still terrible. I do dailies on 3 50s every day since the "100% change", not to mention the constant farming on do on my main in Northern Waste. I still havent seen one. I am now about to buy each of my characters an AMP point from the EG vendor. Tell me again how world drop rates are faster than EG. Way to keep cupcaking this game up.	
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			Had one drop off a level 20 mob on my  level 21 esper, so truly random world drop.	
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They are also world drops. I've seen a few drop while doing open world quests (by few I mean 3 total)
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			Buying CREDD isn't that hard OP. ;)	
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That's pretty incredible actually
I don't even know someone that has seen one as a drop
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All these replies on how to gain them CURRENTLY are completely erroneous and if you have been playing this game since release then you know full well what I was implying with my title. I appreciate the help you are giving to someone who may not know how the game works. I appreciate the attempt at alleviating my very evident frustration with the current state of affairs in regards to obtaining AMP and Ability Points. 
 
Your character is NOT "level capped" until you have all of your AMP and Ability Points. Simple. As. That.
 
In the given scenarios here is how I am supposed to get AMP and Ability Points:
 
Grind. Grind. Grind. Either money or time to buy them or get them to drop for me.
 
The "drop for me" part is completely ridiculous though. Am I excepted to have 14 items with a 1/10000 chance drop for me? Really?
 
Money is not even that much better. I am now completely reliant on the whims of other players (not to mention their luck) to max my character.
 
I can accept the systems the way they are if that is how they are always going to be. The fact that there have been statements to the contrary is what is getting to me. I am just asking for more statements in that direction. 
 
I think it is high time we hear something more concrete about this system and its upcoming (i hope) changes.	
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They also said during open beta that the Elder Gem vendor wasn't supposed to be the main method for getting amp/ability points, and it is, by a long long shot.
 
They are only ever even sold by people on my server like once a week, and they sell for 60 plat each. 
 
If it's intentional to take 8 months to max out your characters amp/ability points, then it's right, but that doesn't seem right to me at all, and my guildies, all agree that this is completely stupid.	
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I know this is really super hard...
 
AMP/ Ability ~EXTRA~ points are intentionally ... RARE ( http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rare )
 
It costs 400 EG's for an ability point and 320 for an amp point ; that is 2-3 weeks worth of EG's for an EXTRA point if you are only getting gems from Elder points and you cap your EP's each week.
 
I've seen 3 drop in 6 weeks; so about 1 point every 2 weeks. If you aren't lucky / aren't playing enough to get the drops, you can use 3 weeks worth of EP's to get one. 
 
Where is the issue here? Item drops around 1 per 2 weeks; you get unlucky over 3 weeks and don't get one and you can use 3 weeks of EP gems to get one. The EXTRA points have a drop rate that is more frequent than you can pay for them with EG's, meaning drops are the primary/most rapid acquisition method as long as you are actually playing for a decent amount of time, and not just logging in to cap EP's on dailies.
 
And incase it still isn't completely and incredibly clear, these are EXTRA points. They are NOT needed for any content what so ever; not needed to play, not needed to raid; not needed for anything. These points are for all intents and purposes luxury items.
 
There is no problem here; you want welfare points and refuse to accept that they actually are not necessary for any content; all they are is nice shinies that you can acquire over time to improve your character over the long term. Judging by the EG cost, it is intended that capping your EXTRA amp / ability points take far longer than a few weeks. 	
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Played every day up until around 2 weeks ago....zero amp/ability points outside of the EP vendor.
 
Naz, you are just hyper frickin lucky.
 
Anyways, I just heard rumors that in a future drop they are putting in a 2k EP weekly cap...the 140 a week for EG vendor stays the same. This apparently came from a early look at another future daily zone during that pax event or what ever. I hope this is true.	
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Played every day up until around 2 weeks ago....zero amp/ability points outside of the EP vendor.
 
Naz, you are just hyper frickin lucky.
 
Anyways, I just heard rumors that in a future drop they are putting in a 2k EP weekly cap...the 140 a week for EG vendor stays the same. This apparently came from a early look at another future daily zone during that pax event or what ever. I hope this is true.
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			Yea, those other 'folks' probably happened to abuse the arena exploit that allowed you to get a pvp bag by leaving the match right off the bat. This was goin on for almost TWO months. I personally refused to do that cus I thought I might get banned. After I seen a recent stream, it looks like they don't care at all if you exploit and will do nothing about it if you do. DOH!	
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All the ones I've seen have been in groups, IIRC grouping has an effect on drop rates for all items... That said, that's been 3 total over the course of 2.5 months. I hit 50 just a day after head start on my Chua medic, so that might also have something to do with it.
 
As it stands, 3 in 2.5 months is about 1 per 3 weeks. Which is about how much they cost in terms of Elder Gems... I assume that's the intended drop rate, since they are priced for about 2-3 weeks worth of EG's at the vendor.
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			I can guarantee you, that if you actually saw even just 1 amp/ability drop as an item, you are a very small minority of the player base.	
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I can guarantee you, that if you actually saw even just 1 amp/ability drop as an item, you are a very small minority of the player base.
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Yea, those other 'folks' probably happened to abuse the arena exploit that allowed you to get a pvp bag by leaving the match right off the bat. This was goin on for almost TWO months. I personally refused to do that cus I thought I might get banned. After I seen a recent stream, it looks like they don't care at all if you exploit and will do nothing about it if you do. DOH!
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			@Nazryn: Carbine said that EG were supposed to be a last resort, so OP is correct.	
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@Nazryn: Carbine said that EG were supposed to be a last resort, so OP is correct.
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			I'm curious ,but what constitutes a "full time player"?	
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@Psyknis: Carbine indeed said EG were a last resort; they Did NOT say rare items weren't supposed to be rare.
 
Current drop rates on points appears to be >/=1 every 2 weeks for a full time player, curren EG costs make one purchasable every 3 weeks.
 
Drop rate with full play time is FASTER than buying them: Ergo EG's are still only the second best method of obtaining them (aka the 'last resort')
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Nazryn. Seriously wind you neck back in. The OP has a perfectly legit question and concern.
 
Your using your experience and assuming everyone has seen these drop as often as you. I can assure you I play and many guildies play 'full time, ie. 3+ hours per day and out of about 35 people not one has seen one drop. I know of a friend who got an AMP point in a pvp bag but other than that nothing.
 
Carbine stated the gem vendor was a backup but for everyone I know it's the primary source and it seems everyone here but you says the same. Do the maths.	
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@Psyknis: Carbine indeed said EG were a last resort; they Did NOT say rare items weren't supposed to be rare.
 
Current drop rates on points appears to be >/=1 every 2 weeks for a full time player, curren EG costs make one purchasable every 3 weeks.
 
Drop rate with full play time is FASTER than buying them: Ergo EG's are still only the second best method of obtaining them (aka the 'last resort')
 
 
In terms of actual data, drop rates from PvP bags appear to be ~0.04% pre- the 100% increase in drop rates. Which means if you run battlegrounds for 2 weeks for 8.5 hours a day (factoring in a 20 minute average lag between matches and a 1/3 winn/loss ratio) you will see around 1 amp / ability points on average from bags per 2 weeks. 
 
World drops are trickier; as dungeon and adventure mobs have higher drop chances than sheer open world drops. But to make things easy, lets use Enslaved protectors in Ruins of Kel Voreth. there is close to 40 of them in an instance of Ruins, but lets say you and your group kill 30 of them each run, and you run Kel Voreth 5 times a day for 2 weeks (lets say you take off the weekends for family time). You will see an average of 3 amp/ ability points every 2 weeks
 
these are both BEFORE the allaged 100% increase in drop rate that is rumored to be coming down the pipe eventually.
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I'm curious ,but what constitutes a "full time player"?
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A person that somehow has some godlike form of luck they managed to get maxed out....
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Um...6-12 seems a tad.....for lack of a better word "excessive" don't you think? 
From my own experience iono, i guess by your definition I'm not a full time player, but im on usually 2-4 hours a day. I've not seen a single drop yet somehow I've managed 15 or more world epic drops in and out of groups/instances. I would think I'd at least see just 1 by that point...
 
 
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You called? All hail the PvP boxes/elder gems
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Lots of people will sell them.  Anyone who isnt concerned with min/max'ing, or realizes that they are in the same state as everyone else and see it as extra.
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TBH I don't care at all about the arena exploit; the damage it did in terms of getting extra amp / ability points pales in comparison to the old Architect exploit...
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This is where I have come to fully understand your mentality and reasoning.
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 <snip>
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Chua think arguments of Nazryn are solid, and logic make sense when comparing data from Jabbithole.
Also make sense when looking at responses from devs.
Instead of bickering about ability of discussion and retorting to personal arguments, might try to counter his points with same logic?
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You would, the two of you should get matching in game white knight outfits for the knighting you do.
 
Polled 64 members of my guild since launch we have gotten a TON of epics and 24 pairs of eldan gauntlets and lots of grim-grims even a dozen or so pell databoards, which means we do a lot of dungeons. Along with those 24 pairs of eldan gauntlets we have gotten ONE world drop AMP/Ability point between the 64 of us.
 
Stop cupcake knight the drop rate. It's broken and needs to be fixed or they just need to come out and say EG vendor is the best option to get them. Had they just said that simple statement no one would give 2 poops.
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Calm down there sparky! First things first, those caps make you look really smart (sarcasm TM Protostar)
 
Next, lets deal with your ramblings:
 
This is where I have come to fully understand your mentality and reasoning.
Here is where I know you don't have a single clue what you are talking about. the Arena exploit gave a hand full of folks an extra bag, and thus an extra 0.04% chance at an ability / amp point.
 
 
 
the Architect Exploit let people LITERALLY CAP THEIR ELDER GEMS by selling a crafted item to the Elder  Gem Vendor for elder gems. I'm not talking the 140 Elder POINT cap, I'm talking exploiters filled up theor 2000+ Elder Gem weekly cap by selling items they crafted to the Elder Gem vendor. There are literally exploiters who have FULL extra amp and ability tiers because of this. Thankfully Carbine fixed this exploit in a previous patch; but they have not banned the exploiters who now have full extra amps/ ability tiers because of it. 
 
For future reference, figure out what you are talking about before you spew mindless drivel please. the Architect exploit was a FAR more damaging one than the extra arena bags.
 
 
Actually I am disagreeing with you. The mere idea that you can tell me how my brain works is completely laughable. I suggest moving to something else. Lets move on.
 
 
 
 
Like I said, the numbers don't lie. For an actual full time (aka 'hardcore') player playing 6-12 hours a day, the average drop rate for amps/tiers can easily exceed the 1 per 3 weeks allowed by the Elder Gem vendor if you are going off of Elder Point conversions. 
 
The discussion here is whether the rarity of the drops is intended; and since the average drop rate for a full time player (who this game was marketed too) exceeds the rate of purchase using Elder Point conversions at the Elder Gem vendor, then drops are still the most rapid way to obtain them on average. 
 
 
 
This is where it starts getting good. You got offended by my lack of response to your initial disrespect so now you up the ante. Good job.
 
 
 
 
No this is where I rather politely tell you that you don't have a clue what you are talking about. And Judging by your utter lack of understanding of the issues at hand (the actual drop rates given reasonable play time for the core audience, the objectively worst exploit that was abused for maxing extra AMP/. Ability points within the first few weeks, etc) It was clearly an accurate observation. You are welcome to take that as a personal insult if you like, but it is not intended as one, merely an observation of the disconnect between the real issues and your perception of them. It happens to the best of us, nothing to be ashamed of.
 
 
 
 
Now you are using conjecture on the matter.
 
Do I have to link to Merriam Webster again? Conjecture is assertion with out evidence. I provided the only necessary evidence (the drop rates from Jabbithole) which when used in simple calculations of player activity show my point is valid. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
You are attempting to shift the argument into something that you feel more comfortable/assured in. I'm sorry but the issue here is not a definition of commonly used terminology and its application to the state of mechanics in Wildstar. What is at issue here is the lack of ability given to the player to obtain AMP and Ability points. If you think that it is ok for players to be stuck with drop chance and elder gems only then by all means you are entitled to that opinion. I disagree and hence the reason for my post. 
 
 
I am shifting nothing; I am providing context by using another MMO for reference. I can easily use any MMO. OG Vanilla WoW, EQ 1&2, Ultima, RO, Terra, Aion, PW, WAR, SWTOR, heck even Hello Kitty online. There are elements in EVERY MMO that by design take a long time to complete/ obtain. That time is an integral part in the eventual reward; having to work over a long period to produce or obtain something exceptional (though not necessary to actually play the game) is a staple of the MMO and RPG genre. I used the Excalibur from XI because even the fastest completions of it took many many months of grinding Dynamis. Of course, while the Excalibur gave me a cool new weapon skill, and some nice stats; it was completely unnecessary for anything... The item / completion was it's own reward (oh and bragging rights, can't forget about those :D )
 
 
 
 
 
 
Again, I do not have issue with the price people have set. I have issue that 1 out of 2 ways to obtain AMP and Ability points is in the hands of other players. Literally in their hands. I should not be restricted in my own characters ability progression. If there is a maximum number of AMP and Ability Points then I should be able to reach that point. I should be able to reach that point the same way I got the other 80% of them. Consistently and strategically. 
 
 
Clearly you do. Also, there are 3 methods of obtaining the items; 1) drops 2) trade 3) Elder Gems
 
Honestly, No. There is no reason that just because items / skills / stats exist in a game, that you or me are entitled to them. I wasn't entitled to my Excalubir, I had to work for it. And finally obtaining it was that much better because of that time and effort. Another example, again from FFXI, but you can honestly find an analogue in pretty much any game:
 
Before the cas-fest nerfs and the increase in level cap; when you hit 75 in XI you could begin accruing Limit Points. These could be used for extra skills, improving your stats, and other things that are literally analogous to the amp / ability points in W* . Each point took a pretty sizeable amount of effort to grind; and even once you maxed your Limit Points (which took several months for most) you were limited in how you could use them. 
 
Moral of the story; you, me, none of us are entitled to anything, most especially not extraneous ability points and amp points. They are there to be earned through time playing / luck of the draw, and IMO are a great long term carrot for both hardcore and casual players alike. If you can't stand full time players maxing their extra amps / abilities before you; then this probably isn't the game for you; or, perhaps you should try playing hardcore if you wan't all the extra carrots ASAP.
 
 
 
 
 
This isn't a discussion about balance. The point is you are down playing an extra tier 8 ability. I fear we won't be able to go into a discussion of PVP balance when it concerns "extra" ability points because I don't see them as extra. I see them as a part of my character that I am unable to obtain because of a limitation set by Carbine. A limitation that they specifically stated was going to be relieved by some sort of system to gain AMP and Ability Points a different way then drop chance or other players (purchasing).
 
 
Clearly it is. You seem to be under the misapprehension that extra amps / ability points make some one with them impervious to some one with out. The reality is, you dodge a telegraph or two and you've just evened the match. Drops + Elder Gems + trading is plenty of methods to obtain a rare extra carrot. Since when is purchasing items from a vendor when you don't play content enough to get drops / don't get lucky enough with your drops to get them in the open world a limitation? It makes it much easier to obtain them IMO; if your luck truly fails you have a guaranteed source of them if you happen to really want them.
 
 
 
 
Those were rhetorical questions but thank you for humoring them by disrespecting the people I might play with or to create a class of player and automatically take me out of it. If you can require hit rating be at a certain level to raid then you can require a certain number of possible AMPs and Ability Points. Whether that is right or wrong is not up for debate and you can start a different thread if you want. Please don't derail mine any further.
 
 
 
I didn't disrespect anyone; those responses were also rhetorical and not directed anywhere but the discussion. I'm sorry you interpreted them otherwise, but that's a personal problem. The fact is; extra amps / ability points aren't necessary for anything. They are a long term carrot for completionists and hardcore players that are accessible on a longer time frame for even the most casual of players. There aren't really 'classes' of players, more like a gradient. Some fall closer to one side than others... but I never suggested nor implied 'classes' of players.
 
There is a big differenve between Hit rating and extra amp points / ability points. If you don't have one, you can't actually preform in a raid; If you lack the other, you will just need to actually know what you are doing. I have never once met a guild leader or officer who turned away genuine talent because a player didn't pack on the unnecessary carrot fat; and I also haven't known many to take some one with out skill because of that unnecessary carrot fat. I suppose YMMV, but if you were to encounter a guild run that way, I would personally advise to turn tail quick.
 
And just an FYI, if you start a thread on this forum, you do so to engage in a dialogue with the other members. This isn't 'your' thread any more than the ones I start are 'mine' (if we read the TOS, technically they are Carbines :3). When all of us start threads, we have to expect that not everyone will think exactly like we ourselves do.	
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A person that somehow has some godlike form of luck they managed to get maxed out....
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			I play easily 10 plus hours a day I am currently raiding ds I cap my ep in 3 hours on tuesday and do dungeons for fun since I tank, have two attuned 50s I have seen ZERO amp or ability points drop ever.	
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You would, the two of you should get matching in game white knight outfits for the knighting you do.
 
Polled 64 members of my guild since launch we have gotten a TON of epics and 24 pairs of eldan gauntlets and lots of grim-grims even a dozen or so pell databoards, which means we do a lot of dungeons. Along with those 24 pairs of eldan gauntlets we have gotten ONE world drop AMP/Ability point between the 64 of us.
 
Stop cupcake knight the drop rate. It's broken and needs to be fixed or they just need to come out and say EG vendor is the best option to get them. Had they just said that simple statement no one would give 2 poops.
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I play easily 10 plus hours a day I am currently raiding ds I cap my ep in 3 hours on tuesday and do dungeons for fun since I tank, have two attuned 50s I have seen ZERO amp or ability points drop ever.
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I swear, some MMOs code a "the less you play the more stuff drops" algorithm into their loot system.
I've raged a lot at ultra-casual buddies in other games who got the sweetest stuff all the time while I busted my ass and got nothing. :D
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I swear, some MMOs code a "the less you play the more stuff drops" algorithm into their loot system.
I've raged a lot at ultra-casual buddies in other games who got the sweetest stuff all the time while I busted my ass and got nothing.  :D
 
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Rofl, it sounds very true. I still don't have a 50, I bounce between alts because crafting/AH has always been my thing and CREDD amplifies this also play like an hour or two a day now.
My first 5 or so BGs when I got my first level 30 I got a ATU from a PvP bag, I get purple signs constantly salvaging crafted gear, when out questing I get random blues and dye packs/decor pretty often. Highest level is 40 next is 34 then the other four characters are floating around in the 20s.
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I've seen 3 drop in 6 weeks
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			They are next to impossible to even buy. Or to find someone that is selling one. I'd much prefer a similar system to EQ's AA system where we can just progress through multi-tiers of skills and unlocks without being dependent on drops.	
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I think the title speaks for itself.
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			I was considering making a strawpoll asking how many people have actually seen an amp/ability pt drop. But meh.	
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This has been an on going thing for almost a month now with zero response from the DEV team. I guess they think its fine.
I made a post three weeks ago on suggestions on making dungeon drops, getting more people to do dungeon content after they are already raiding.
 
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/102927-abilityamp-points-and-elder-gem-quick-fix/
 
At this point I can only assume they want us to wait a year to fully utilize our characters. With this system I really don't want to roll and alt and prep it for raiding.	
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~snip~
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Once again Nazryn, conjecture. It was a valid point. No matter how all encompassing you think your data set may be it doesn't excuse the fact that you are pretty disrespectful. I think I have spent enough time illustrating my point already and won't go into it with you any further.
 
I still stand by what I said. There are 2 ways to get these items. Drops and Elder Gems is how you obtain AMP and Ability Points at the moment. There is no other way. Since the items do NOT drop consistently enough then that portion is based on luck and the whims of other players. Elder Gems (per Carbine) were never meant to be the primary source of these items.
 
Since Carbine has already stated that there will be additional ways to obtain AMP and Ability Points (or even Elder Gems) I am just looking for more information. We haven't heard anything in quite a while and I think it is time either the hatch is battened down for good or a light is shown to those who are asking for it.	
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Once again Nazryn, conjecture. It was a valid point. No matter how all encompassing you think your data set may be it doesn't excuse the fact that you are pretty disrespectful. I think I have spent enough time illustrating my point already and won't go into it with you any further.
 
I still stand by what I said. There are 2 ways to get these items. Drops and Elder Gems is how you obtain AMP and Ability Points at the moment. There is no other way. Since the items do NOT drop consistently enough then that portion is based on luck and the whims of other players. Elder Gems (per Carbine) were never meant to be the primary source of these items.
 
Since Carbine has already stated that there will be additional ways to obtain AMP and Ability Points (or even Elder Gems) I am just looking for more information. We haven't heard anything in quite a while and I think it is time either the hatch is battened down for good or a light is shown to those who are asking for it.
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Naz is just not being truthful.  Do you guys really think that he has gotten 3 amp/ability point drops and everyone else's entire guild have maybe seen 1?
 
The thing you have to understand here is that people like Naz and Olivar are so invested in this game that any criticism towards the game is perceived by them to be a direct insult on their character.  It is easier for them to blindly white-knight Carbine than it is to admit that the developers(and by extension, themselves) were wrong about something.	
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Once again, I am relying on other players luck and whims. If you have seen 1 every 2-3 weeks then how many people were in your group? This will drastically reduce the actual number of chances you have to get it. I understand being grouped increases your drop chances as well. I regularly do dailies with 2-3 people but none of us have any seen any. I don't consider this "working as intended" and if you do then I STRONGLY disagree with you.
 
I am gonna go ahead and mostly ignore your snide and condescending remarks. For future reference I would suggest not defining very-well-known vocabulary to someone when trying to prove a point.
 
The issue here is that you actually ONLY obtain them 1 time every 2 weeks (using your numbers here) with ELDER GEMS and ONLY ELDER GEMS. Is that how it was intended to be implented?
 
As I have already said there are Carbine quotes to the contrary and we have yet to see any form of discussion about the alternatives. The alternatives to drop chance and elder gem vendor. There are NO ALTERNATIVES to those 2 things right now. As we have seen (and you have also admitted) the drop chance doesn't actually give these items to the player in any consistent manner.
 
I am finding it hard to understand your point about them being "extra" points. In what way does functionality of your class become extra? Are you saying that I should only have 2 tier 8 abilities and that my current tier 4 ability is just an extra bonus for me and is completely unnecessary? 
 
If you PVP at all then this is were it gets really terrible. Either you have 3 tier 8 abilities (or combinations there in) or you are weaker then your opponent. 
 
If all you do is PVE then what happens when you are the only person in your group who is missing the AMPs that your group wants to bring?
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Think its time to build your own game or become CEO of carbine.
 
It is fun to see how you rage against a drop rate ROFLMAO. Lets face it, your new to the genre MMO ( new is WoW ) and hate to spend time in a game, all you want is endgame , and maxxed out characters to find yourself nothing to do within 2 months. GG.
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Naz is just not being truthful.  Do you guys really think that he has gotten 3 amp/ability point drops and everyone else's entire guild have maybe seen 1?
 
The thing you have to understand here is that people like Naz and Olivar are so invested in this game that any criticism towards the game is perceived by them to be a direct insult on their character.  It is easier for them to blindly white knight Carbine than ever admit that the developers(and by extension, themselves) were wrong about something.
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Ok, here is my current issue.  I will 100% farm the hell out of these things (even though I haven't been getting drops I know of 2 solid places to obtain them, pvp and a certain vet dungeon) or will keep buying them (bought 2 with plat 2 with elder gems),  With the amount of double talking going on from developers I have completely stopped farming and buying these because I fear what happened to trigger fingers happening to these.  If the drop rate is fine, then tell us, its ok.  Ill put the time in and farm them and be proud my character is slightly stronger for the work I put in.  If drop rates will drastically increase let us know too!  I put a lot of time in this game (and while most of you don't want to hear it) I don't want to invest in purchasing more amp points just to see what happened to trigger fingers (which I agreed with because it was class specific) happen to amp points.  
 
TL;DR Either leave Amp points crazy rare and add that ability to buy sell on CX.  Or if you plan on buffing these drop rates you NEED to let us know so we don't *cupcake* away months of farming and hardwork for something we could have just waited to get patch buffed.  	
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			I have 3 level 50's so far. Main has over 20 days of play time. Safe to say I am in this game alot. My wife can confirm that, lol. In that time I have seen exactly 1 amp drop. Just 1. Of course that was the 1 time I grouped with a guildie for the dailies and I lost the roll to him. And he didn't even know what it was. It dropped and I just yelled NEED NEED. He won and was like, what was that? 	
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I have 3 level 50's so far. Main has over 20 days of play time. Safe to say I am in this game alot. My wife can confirm that, lol. In that time I have seen exactly 1 amp drop. Just 1. Of course that was the 1 time I grouped with a guildie for the dailies and I lost the roll to him. And he didn't even know what it was. It dropped and I just yelled NEED NEED. He won and was like, what was that? 
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I have 3 level 50's so far. Main has over 20 days of play time. Safe to say I am in this game alot. My wife can confirm that, lol. In that time I have seen exactly 1 amp drop. Just 1. Of course that was the 1 time I grouped with a guildie for the dailies and I lost the roll to him. And he didn't even know what it was. It dropped and I just yelled NEED NEED. He won and was like, what was that? 
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Makes sense it was the "one time you grouped" as there is clearly some hidden "magic find" when grouped.
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I notice most of the arguments against more amp/ability points boil down to "lol u juz entitled wow playerz want everything handed to u"
 
When that's not what it's about, it's about having character progression that isn't literally just a clock, just a big time block, that is frustrating, and doesn't encourage us to keep playing and trying new things when we are at our weekly cap, which is fast.
 
It's about having an elder gem vendor being an actual viable option for back up gear, and not the guy that if you spend your elder gems on anything but a genetic failsafe and amp/ability points, then you LITERALLY set your character back AT LEAST 2 weeks.
 
Guess what one of the biggest things everyone hated about ESO was?  Veteran levels, guess what these amp/ability points are like?	
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I notice most of the arguments against more amp/ability points boil down to "lol u juz entitled wow playerz want everything handed to u"
 
When that's not what it's about, it's about having character progression that isn't literally just a clock, just a big time block, that is frustrating, and doesn't encourage us to keep playing and trying new things when we are at our weekly cap, which is fast.
 
It's about having an elder gem vendor being an actual viable option for back up gear, and not the guy that if you spend your elder gems on anything but a genetic failsafe and amp/ability points, then you LITERALLY set your character back AT LEAST 2 weeks.
 
Guess what one of the biggest things everyone hated about ESO was?  Veteran levels, guess what these amp/ability points are like?
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Judging from the comments here, a large number of players haven't seen any drops, and they don't know anyone who's seen drops either.
 
If this is "working as intended" then perhaps people's intentions ought to be reexamined in light of their possible effect on future profits.	
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Judging from the comments here, a large number of players haven't seen any drops, and they don't know anyone who's seen drops either.
 
If this is "working as intended" then perhaps people's intentions ought to be reexamined in light of their possible effect on future profits.
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Sorry Cata, did you read my post? I was NOT using my personal drops as a basis for my calculations; I was using drop rates from Jabbithole:
 
Again, while I presented my personal experince, I In no way shape or form believe / claim it is any evidence for the drop rate / average ability to obtain these items. I did note that my experience appears to be close to what the actual observed drop rates seem to be given data from jabbithole.
 
The problem with jabbithole is so few people actually contribute their session data, I would be more confident in their data if more people contributed; but there really isn't anything I can do about that. That said, data aggregation sites are still our best source of drop-rate data, and are orders of magnitude more useful than speculation.
 
Also if I wasn't clear, I don't play for 6-12 hours a day; that's the 'hardcore' audience that does. The Highschool kids who come home and play from 3pm to 3am; the college kids who play almost all the time between / after class; the professionals who work 9-5 and then play 6pm-1am. I used to play like that (-Hardcore-)  in EQ and FFXI when I was an undergrad. But as I pointed out in one of my earlier posts on this forum I played 24/7 during headstart; then 8 hours a day during the first week (I took time off to play) and then really only 3-5 hours a day since. This game was marketed to hardcore players, and Hardcore players run >6 hours a day, which is why I was very comfortable using the numbers I did for playing content.
 
as a final note; I don't disagree that you CAN cap Elder gems quickly each week; but you still have to wait 3 weeks before being able to purchase an amp/ability point. So while the time running content is lower, the net time it takes is longer. If you are playing this game as intended (-Hardcore-) the drop rate exceeds the purchase rate... That doesn't mean you WILL see the average drop rate on them, but it means if you don't it's your luck not the game. 
 
Best,
Naz
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But why would anyone sell it? (assuming they having maxed out AMP/Abilities) What real value does gold have? I mean there is nothing to spend your gold on that truly has any real value. You can buy crafting gear at 50 relatively cheap, buying housing items is a waste since housing doesn't do anything for you other than a having a resource node. Repairs? Perhaps but you don't need much gold for repairs. AMP abilities? Well their prices are dropping like a rock. That leaves us to... Well not much else that is valuable.
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No I do not feel entitled to gaining something that was intended to be extremely rare. If I did then I would be asking for world epic drops to be obtained more often, for world bosses to spawn every 30 minutes or for crafted specials to be selectable and not RNG based.
 
I only feel left in the dark about potential changes that could impact time I have already spent and effort I have already put forth in Wildstar.
 
I am asking for more information about a system of progression that is linked to Elder Gems and drop rates. If this is how it is supposed to be then Carbine needs to come out and say they are happy with the way it works and do not plan to change it in any significant way in the future. As they have already said (and nobody is refuting) that they are giving new ways to get Elder Gems or for the AMP and Ability Points in the game then I want to know more.	
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My guild isnt massive, we have 2 confirmed drops.
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My apologies, must have missed the part.
 
In any case, thanks for the non-aggressive response :D. From your experience, then, however, if you've played even far less than the "full-time" player, you have been even more lucky getting 3 drops in 6 weeks than my math would suggest at 6-12 hours of daily grind. 
 
I think there are three major issues the community is having with AMP/Ability Tier point acquisition.
 
1) No CX/AH posting (yet) to properly show competition and availability of the product.
 
2) There is no additional means to acquire Elder Gems beyond the weekly EP grind, although stated back in April that there would be multiple ways to get EG beyond the weekly xp cap.  I have only ever received one extra from a boombox.
 
3) The drop rates make these items extremely rare.  I am fine with this in most cases if there were more ways to acquire the Elder Gems (see previous point).
 
I understand WildStar wants to have some "hardcore" mentality and I applaud them for trying.  The problem, however, is that hardcore for WildStar, from my comparing my HC experience in WildStar to my experience in other MMOs, revolves more around tedious grinding and RNG over actual challenge. I would prefer more challenge to achieve items and character improvements as opposed to luck and mindless grind. End-game should not revolve around doing 100 challenges (read easy side-events) and mindlessly killing mobs for a very slim chance to get one drop.
 
Yes, this tedious model has worked in the past such as EQ but where EQ was successful (and had very little competition), WildStar has to be aware that if they want their model to continue as is a large portion of the player base, entitled feeling or not, are more than willing to go play something else that will reward them for the grind.  When one game fails, there are fifty more to pick up and try out instead.
 
As a Guild Master in WildStar, I would love to just see the game feel more rewarding than it currently is. This is not about entitlement; this is about time-investment and worth. If my players are not enjoying the game because the RNG of so many facets is so heavily stacked against them, it makes my job more difficult to convince them to sign on and play.
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I feel like with all these constructed arguments we are still revolving around the current state of the game. You can only get 140 EG per week, only by grinding. 
 
Nazryn is probably about 100% correct about the drop rates and the rate at which we "should be" acquiring them, but only when given the current model of EG. We can't use the EG vendor price and the rate at which we currently gain EG as a model to say that they are dropping correctly. We should instead be wondering when we will be able to obtain additional EG beyond the EP weekly cap. 	
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Played ESO for 3 or so months....I did 1125 quests + ground mobs for weeks on end to hit VR12. That sucked and wasn't all that fun but I got to the top of the mountain none the less. I was not gated to unlock all skill sets or abilities once I got there btw. This is same for every single MMO I have ever played, not one of em puts a gate up when it concerns a player's abilities/talents/etc; WS is the first AAA game I seen this done, this sort of practice is usually only in harsh Korean grindcore MMOs.
 
Anyways, I hate to say this but.....I enjoyed myself far more in ESO than here which is some thing I'd never have thought I would say.
 
Give people who hit 50 or at 50 the full amount of ability and amp points imo. You can leave the LAS on the vendor I guess but the rest....screw RNG grinding + 53 week time gate just to unlock more powers. Imagine just how darned unforgiving this current system is to newbies or people who like alts, at this point they stand to be months behind every one else in pure player power. Equipment I can understand but going that far? Wtf, that has to be one the dumbest design choice I have seen in a long long time.
 
All I can say is fix it. Please.
 
This is not a Korean f2p game where they can get away with stuff like this; many of us are paying 15+ bucks a month so there should be NO NEED for f2p punishing mechanics.
 
It's either that or just put these things in a cash shop and be done with it.	
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@Psyknis: Carbine indeed said EG were a last resort; they Did NOT say rare items weren't supposed to be rare.
 
Current drop rates on points appears to be >/=1 every 2 weeks for a full time player, curren EG costs make one purchasable every 3 weeks.
 
Drop rate with full play time is FASTER than buying them: Ergo EG's are still only the second best method of obtaining them (aka the 'last resort')
 
 
In terms of actual data, drop rates from PvP bags appear to be ~0.04% pre- the 100% increase in drop rates. Which means if you run battlegrounds for 2 weeks for 8.5 hours a day (factoring in a 20 minute average lag between matches and a 1/3 win/loss ratio) you will see around 1 amp / ability points on average from bags per 2 weeks. Running arenas you would see even more.
 
World drops are trickier; as dungeon and adventure mobs have higher drop chances than sheer open world drops. But to make things easy, lets use Enslaved protectors in Ruins of Kel Voreth. there is close to 40 of them in an instance of Ruins, but lets say you and your group kill 30 of them each run, and you run Kel Voreth 5 times a day for 2 weeks (lets say you take off the weekends for family time). You will see an average of around 3 amp/ ability points every 2 weeks
 
these are both BEFORE the alleged 100% increase in drop rate that is rumoured to be coming down the pipe eventually.
 
P.S. drop rate data obtained from Jabbithole. Current drop rates on Ens. Protectors = 0.18%  from bags = 0.04% as per JH
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Nazrym a couple of points on your post.
 
First-off your math is totally off. Remember loot rolls are a markov system. The drop rate remains the same whether you have 1 roll or a million rolls. Your previous rolls have no effect on the current or future loot rolls meaning your calculation is just wrong.
 
 
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