117150-suggestion-to-help-retainattract-mature-player-base

== Content ==
			
As your metrics show, most people aren't logging on for long periods of time in each sitting. This is because the MMO audience is aging and many of us have more responsibilities than we did when we did heroic modes for 5 hours a night. Myself and many of my friends loved this game, but didn't make it to endgame before quitting for the same reason I had trouble getting other people to play the game in the first place: the questing process is time consuming and tedious when you can't sit down and chunk it out in long sittings.
 
At end game, you get to choose what you want to do because everyone is into different things. Why not apply that same concept to questing? I would buy, with real money, an XP boost that allows me to just play through the primary quests so that I could get to endgame faster, and have more fun doing it because the primary quests are simply better. 
 
I've been waiting for someone to do this for some time; I just got an email from SWtOR offering me a 12x xp boost if I resub, but WildStar is a better MMO in every aspect(except lightsabers are awesome) and I'd rather play WildStar.
 
Thanks for reading!
 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
As your metrics show, most people aren't logging on for long periods of time in each sitting. 
----
			
I do not think trivialising such a large part of the game is the way to go. I do not think it would encourage a mature player base at all. In fact I think it would do the reverse by encouraging the younger generations that want to get things quickly or not at all and further alienate the mature playerbase that are used to working towards a goal.
 
You can still choose to do what you want. You can PvP if you want to. You can do shiphands, adventures or dungeons. I agree that some of those need to have the experience boosting to match the effort put in but luckily Carbine also agree and that is on the way.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
{| class="blockquote"
As your metrics show, most people aren't logging on for long periods of time in each sitting.
----
			I definitely see what you guys are saying, it's just what happens before level cap, and then at level cap, are two completely different types of gaming. There are a lot of people that really love raiding and pvp and the social aspects to endgame MMOs, but don't ever get there because the game that happens pre-cap, in most MMOs, is like playing through a barely decent RPG. This causes many people to leave the game, or never play in the first place.	
----
			
The issue I have is you are making them different experiences, not the game. I love questing, when I get to endgame I spend a lot of time doing the daily quests therefore it seems like one continuous game to me. However, this works with other playstyles as well. If you enjoy PvP at endgame then do not wait to endgame to get stuck in you can join your first battleground at level 6! Group PvE more your bag shiphands, adventures and dungeons are therefore you. The dungeons particularly are really far closer to raiding than you see in other games with far more interesting mechanics from an early level.
 
If you only quest and do not enjoy questing, then sure it is not going to be that much fun. But if you do the things you enjoy as you level you will find end-game and levelling are not all that different.	
----
			
One of the biggest mistakes I see new players make while trying to level fast is to do all the quests they are given. It's a bit counterintuitive, but if you want the fastest way to get to level 50, the approach you want to take is to only do world and zone quests and skip task quests unless you happen to finish them while doing a story quest. Interestingly, exactly what the OP is asking. 
 
The game's XP gain scales really badly as you go even one level above the quests, while rewarding you more for taking on higher level quests and mobs. Whenever you get a quest or challenge that updates based on kill %, it's based on your XP gain from killing rather than a set number of mobs killed. That's why rest XP is so helpful, and why killing primes make quests go faster. On top of that, task quests tend to be the kill X mobs or collect Y item quests that slow you down because you invest more time for comparatively lower xp rewards. There's not even interesting lore reasons to do them.
 
OP, try doing quests only if they are 1 or 2 levels above your character, and stick with story quests. You'll find that it will actually go much faster for you. The only caveat is that quests and XP really seen to dry up as you go towards 50, so from Malgrave onwards, I stop skipping task quests.	
----
			
Thanks Mycia, that's very helpful information!
 
It's worth noting to everyone that this is not a personal request, I've simply been observing the MMO playerbase and this is something I've been thinking.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
No it isn't. You can play as much or as little as you want. The housing transmat makes it even easier, logout safely, then start up again exactly where you left off. 
 
----
			Maturity is overated.And badly understood anyway.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Thanks Mycia, that's very helpful information!
 
It's worth noting to everyone that this is not a personal request, I've simply been observing the MMO playerbase and this is something I've been thinking.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
To be honest, it would be better if it were. I understand you've gotten similar feedback from people you play with, but all too often the constituencies people choose to speak for on the internet are imaginary. A personal account of the things you find problematic works better as useful feedback.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The problem is that if you don't play in large chunks you get a reduced sense of progression, which makes it seem more time consuming/tedious. If you play an hour here and there you get stuck in Whitevale for many gaming sessions, having to go through 6-8 levels in a single zone can leave players bored.  This is especially true if they spend time doing path quests, in which they will feel even less level progression. Further, a lot of these player also don't know how bad the XP drop-off is in terms of quests under their level, so they continue to do tasks which they should skip, which further slows their progression and delays them from just entering the next zone.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It hurts my face that you're speculating about me speculating. These are personal thoughts, but my point is that there is a large number of people that share these thoughts with me.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So you're saying the game needs to feed people's desire for the sense of progress no matter what they do, even if it is a bunch of extraneous things that are meant to slow you down and give a broader experience?
 
Right now, the game is well set up. People who choose to can progress quickly (even in short sessions) and people who choose not to don't have to. I suppose if the game MUST do something to placate people who can't be bothered to do a little bit of looking before they play, they could do a slightly better job explaining the different leveling tactics, but to be honest I can't think of any MMO that does.
 
Most of the problems the OP lines up are solved by doing a bit of looking online, either here or in guides on other sites. There's a tradeoff between seeing everything and making progress quickly (which is a completely subjective thing anyway), and I have no problem with tradeoffs. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
As your metrics show, most people aren't logging on for long periods of time in each sitting. This is because the MMO audience is aging and many of us have more responsibilities than we did when we did heroic modes for 5 hours a night. Myself and many of my friends loved this game, but didn't make it to endgame before quitting for the same reason I had trouble getting other people to play the game in the first place: the questing process is time consuming and tedious when you can't sit down and chunk it out in long sittings.
 
At end game, you get to choose what you want to do because everyone is into different things. Why not apply that same concept to questing? I would buy, with real money, an XP boost that allows me to just play through the primary quests so that I could get to endgame faster, and have more fun doing it because the primary quests are simply better. 
 
I've been waiting for someone to do this for some time; I just got an email from SWtOR offering me a 12x xp boost if I resub, but WildStar is a better MMO in every aspect(except lightsabers are awesome) and I'd rather play WildStar.
 
Thanks for reading!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
At end game, you get to choose what you want to do because everyone is into different things.
----
			
If you're only able to play for an hour a day, any MMO is going to feel very slow and tedious.  WS leveling honestly feels very quick considering how new it is. 
 
There are a lot of distractions though along the way, housing and path quests suck up a lot of time!  But if you ignore those and focus on leveling, it's not that big of a deal.
 
There is a bit of an issue at malgrave/grimvault where players can run out of quests though (happened to me, had to do the daily zone quests) which should def be something they need to look at.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
How is the the game before max level different? There are a lot of things to do before max level. PvP? Lvl 6 or so. Adventures? Lvl 15. Dungeons? Lvl 20. Housing? Lvl 10(ish? Been a while.) Costumes? Lvl 7. What can you do at max level that you can't do earlier?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
How is the the game before max level different? There are a lot of things to do before max level. PvP? Lvl 6 or so. Adventures? Lvl 15. Dungeons? Lvl 20. Housing? Lvl 10(ish? Been a while.) Costumes? Lvl 7. What can you do at max level that you can't do earlier?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I do not think trivialising such a large part of the game is the way to go. I do not think it would encourage a mature player base at all. In fact I think it would do the reverse by encouraging the younger generations that want to get things quickly or not at all and further alienate the mature playerbase that are used to working towards a goal.
 
You can still choose to do what you want. You can PvP if you want to. You can do shiphands, adventures or dungeons. I agree that some of those need to have the experience boosting to match the effort put in but luckily Carbine also agree and that is on the way.
----
			
 
 
The "people are playing short sessions" info came directly from Frost before he left. He's quoted here: http://wildstar-core.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
The last thing we need is trivialized content
----
			If we're going to pick nits about what words mean, at least lets stop confusing faster and easier with more accessible. One is a cheap shortcut that doesn't keep people around, the other is a design principle the devs have always worked toward (contrary to popular memes, the game is not just for the hardcore, it's meant to have things for most types of player).	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If we're going to pick nits about what words mean, at least lets stop confusing faster and easier with more accessible. One is a cheap shortcut that doesn't keep people around, the other is a design principle the devs have always worked toward (contrary to popular memes, the game is not just for the hardcore, it's meant to have things for most types of player).
----
			
Easy =/= fun, and fun doesn't necessarly mean hard either.
 
But making things easier/quicker isn't really the way to go about things. Honestly, the difficutly of leveling (which isn't really SUPER hard) is what makes leveling fun in the game. You can't just zone out and mash 2 buttons to level cap. If you can only play for an hour a day, it's going to go slow. If you expect to be in a new zone every 1-2 days only playing an hour a day - that's just really not something that would be healthy for the game.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's not a meme.
 
That's a fact.  
 
Regardless of what the game is "meant" to have, at the moment it's all grind, grind, grind and RNG. It's very clearly tuned to a certain type of hardcore, which is why its retention rates are abysmal.  
 
Carbine put all of its development into pleasing the raiders.  They're paying for that.  They backed the wrong horse, and this is what happens when you do that.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Easy =/= fun, and fun doesn't necessarly mean hard either.
 
But making things easier/quicker isn't really the way to go about things. Honestly, the difficutly of leveling (which isn't really SUPER hard) is what makes leveling fun in the game. You can't just zone out and mash 2 buttons to level cap. If you can only play for an hour a day, it's going to go slow. If you expect to be in a new zone every 1-2 days only playing an hour a day - that's just really not something that would be healthy for the game.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Interesting version of history, but ultimately incorrect. I agree itemization has swung too far toward random, but as someone who was here I can say that wasn't the raider's fault, it was the people who wanted "simpler" and "more accessible"
 
So like I said, be careful about the terms you throw around and be careful what you ask for. You may get it.
----
			I really am surprised that people think leveling in this game is slow or difficult. I consider myself a slow leveler. I usually only play about an hour a day, I play very casually, and I took a few weeks off earlier this fall (not because I was mad at the game but just because of busy life stuff) and I still have a level 50 main and a level 26 alt! It's just not that hard, and I can't imagine significant numbers of people left because they found the leveling difficult.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I really am surprised that people think leveling in this game is slow or difficult. I consider myself a slow leveler. I usually only play about an hour a day, I play very casually, and I took a few weeks off earlier this fall (not because I was mad at the game but just because of busy life stuff) and I still have a level 50 main and a level 26 alt! It's just not that hard, and I can't imagine significant numbers of people left because they found the leveling difficult.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 Better yet, ask the players who left and listen to their answers. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Where'd you hear that?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Most of them left because of bugs and gear issues, not because leveling took too long/was too ahrd
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
	Suggestion to help retain/attract mature player base
----
			
Most people leave for a few reasons i bet...
 
Awful quest design that did not use the ratchet and clanks design and movement to change tradition mmo leveling and due to full time effort and not watching vids on the side caused it to get tiring fast.
 
Leveling that requires full effort after level 20 due to random red circles on ground (this really got to me... I can play action stuff for short bursts but to play 2 hours of wildstar is tiring...not relaxing). Did not help in the least that i am playing from Australia. Guildwars 2 and Tera seemed more response and better timed than this...
 
Dungeons at low levels that give shit rewards and being ridiculously hard for what is gained. Dungeons at higher lvls that give shit rewards. Massive guild rosters in a day and age where most people enjoy organizing no more that 10 to max 25 ppls... FFX14 has 8 ppl raids(awesome)...
 
A toxic community that hated on casuals and now are paying for it... seriously have u never watched the Incredibles... If everyone is hardcore no one is hardcore..  Why make a game just for hardcores and make everyone else pay for crap material outside of hardcore dungeons and Raids? Oh housing...booo housing is 1 thing and only entertained me till level 30 or so...
 
False advertisement... Maytree mentioned this but seriously with the graphics and gameplay most people came in expecting that even the quests and story will help them stick with this game buuut nope...
 
Lack of overall fun.
 
Bugs and RNG. PVP being completely broken in two different ways. 1 allowing for people to pay to get thier rankings increased for best weapon before raiding. 2 completely breaking healing in another patch.
 
But the worst is seriously the community, casuals are usually nice people who will live and let live... But never hate on the costumers who pay the majority of the subscription... never...
 
I will stick with this game for what it could be in the coming months. But i am not doing it for fun.
 
That is all.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
....The people who wanted the game simpler and more accessible killed it...how?  By not being willing to play the game the way you and some of the devs wanted them to?  
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
No. Talking specifically about itemization here. They didn't like the way items were set up (that you had almost complete control over what stats/specials they had. It was "too complicated" (when it reality it took about 15 minutes with a simple guide to understand), so the devs changed items to fixed stats, randomly generated attributes on drops, and added the rune system.
----
			
make x-rated content available?
 
on second thought, there's enough Aurin running around.	
----
			
Look Lemurian... 
 
Options is the reason. FFX 14 , wow, rift, archage, wildstar, guildwars 2, eve online, tera and more i bet are all available right now.
 
This along with steam means anyone can be doing anything else rather than grinding or head bashing dailies daily...
 
Whats sad is the developer didn't seem to realize this... They must have either worked so hard they forgot 10 years have passed since they started making their game or thought their game was better than it is...
 
My worry is did they really understand what hardcore means. Did they really understand what a subscrition model game in todays day and age means. And most importantly did they understand the size of the target they were putting on themselves touting this game was for hardcore and anyone else can bugger off.
 
Because seriously outside of vet dungeons and raids the game is totally lackluster.
 
Bland like they just said hey raids and dungeons are done buut just incase someone isn't interested did anyone make anything for the other guys who have a hour a day to do stuff... No well we got a week so you guys better get to work on it before its released...
 
Seriously	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Look Lemurian... 
 
Options is the reason. FFX 14 , wow, rift, archage, wildstar, guildwars 2, eve online, tera and more i bet are all available right now.
 
This along with steam means anyone can be doing anything else rather than grinding or head bashing dailies daily...
 
Whats sad is the developer didn't seem to realize this... They must have either worked so hard they forgot 10 years have passed since they started making their game or thought their game was better than it is...
 
My worry is did they really understand what hardcore means. Did they really understand what a subscrition model game in todays day and age means. And most importantly did they understand the size of the target they were putting on themselves touting this game was for hardcore and anyone else can bugger off.
 
Because seriously outside of vet dungeons and raids the game is totally lackluster.
 
Bland like they just said hey raids and dungeons are done buut just incase someone isn't interested did anyone make anything for the other guys who have a hour a day to do stuff... No well we got a week so you guys better get to work on it before its released...
 
Seriously
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
In here you can get a total exp buff of around 18%. In Tera you pay a sub for 15% exp buff. That's it. You can't get or buy more. 
 
 
 
The OP is asking TO BUY HIS WAY TO 50. That's not wanting easy content, that's wanting not to do the content in the first place. That's the very definition of pay to win. And I don't think Wildstar should have any of that. 
Heritage exp buffs? Yeah sure, level your alts faster!
account bound attunement? Why not!
But no pay to friggin not play here please.I don't play most free to play games for that reason.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Ah sorry, I totally went of track with what this post was mainly about because of idiots still trying to protect the game for what it is instead of thinking about what can be done to make it better.
 
OP is asking for what WoW is doing but is not needed for this game... What is needed for this game is a simple sentence from people telling him how to level correctly.
 
OP leveling in wildstar is fast enough though can be much better if PVP gives more exp and at each new level your charector gets a mission to move on to the next hub that is at the right level for you. Mainly because if you level though pvp or dungeons its a headache to just run through region and zones quests to move onto the next hub when you out level them. There needs to be a better option.
 
Always take quests a level or two above you and mainly do the zone and region quests as these are usually better than the tasks...
 
Alts should get hierlooms like wow or exp boost. This game sucks for alts so bad it sucks the sucks sucks.. ANd yes attunement needs to go like yesterday... no wait scratch that like 3 months ago...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
attunement is fine, except that the world boss part and the rep part is pointless and no reason to do it more than once really.
 
Solo quests are quite interesting and dungeons are a great way to train your guild members though :)
 
Now about heirlooms, for PVE, yes. Make the gear give you like a 50% exp buff or something and make it match a regular blue for that level. One mistake from WoW was the fact that heirloom gear is OP in PvP. That I wouldn't want.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If removing the the world bosses and rep is actually done then yes i agree. Because then its run through the dungeons and cross your fingers for better loot so raids will be easier when the roster boss is beaten. Otherwise run dungeons and adventures with randoms and guild mates now that silver isn't required and a global community outside of 100 people can exist...
 
I am guessing you mean solo story quests because the only interesting quests that stay interesting are zone quests and sometimes region quests.
----