116569-wow-style-in-game-cash-shop

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This is needed and a great idea. Taking a page out of the book of the most sucessful MMO of all time is not a bad idea and gives Carbine a new source of revenue and everything the players want.
 
Heres what would be great to see in it.
 
1. faction changes
 
2. name changes
 
3. race changes
 
4. Completely character overhaul
 
5. Hairstyle change (at least till they implement a barber shop or something)
 
5. MOUNTS. SPECIAL MOUNTS: Why? It gives the creative guys at Carbine something special to work on and give us, just like blizzards do and no ones forcing you to buy them.
 
6. PETS: Again, special ones just like wow that are unique and celebrates Carbine and the game. Hell even a pet that just had the Carbine logo with arms and feet etc lol. Again no one is forcing you to buy them.
 
ALL THIS would give Carbine a new revenue stream and give the players what they want, all conveniently and IN GAME.
 
I see now downside to this what so ever.
 
Thoughts?
 	
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			Also gonna say no. I like paying a sub for a game for the reason that it generally means when I see something cool I know it's something I can work and strive towards IN GAME.	
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			I support the idea. Especially for character re-customisation and race-change. I want each service to cost 1 CREDD or 15 dollars.	
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			Character customisation should be offered in game. It should be something you should play ingame monies for, not real monies. Maybe I've been spoiled by too many games with barbershops though.	
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			Its a subscription game. A subscription game struggling to prove it has enough in the game to warrant that recurring fee. All of these things should be added to the game but inside the game itself. Tack on a hefty Platinum cost for some of them and you encourage the sale of CREDD for those that want the shiney now, and create a goal to strive for those who would rather earn it through play.	
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Character customisation should be offered in game. It should be something you should play ingame monies for, not real monies. Maybe I've been spoiled by too many games with barbershops though.
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Its a subscription game. A subscription game struggling to prove it has enough in the game to warrant that recurring fee. All of these things should be added to the game but inside the game itself. Tack on a hefty Platinum cost for some of them and you encourage the sale of CREDD for those that want the shiney now, and create a goal to strive for those who would rather earn it through play.
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Its a subscription game. A subscription game struggling to prove it has enough in the game to warrant that recurring fee. All of these things should be added to the game but inside the game itself. Tack on a hefty Platinum cost for some of them and you encourage the sale of CREDD for those that want the shiney now, and create a goal to strive for those who would rather earn it through play.
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Faction change - add 5 daily "Treason quests" for each faction that are not easy. One of them for each side includes spending 60g to finance sedition/travel papers/whatever.
 
Complete 75 treason quests and your faction flips. All quest givers are in shared zones so you aren't in a capital when the flip happens.
 
Two weeks of playing and you change sides. A little longer if you skip the one where you pay. Less than a month either way.
 
Way more value to the customer than $20 cash on a website.	
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			No, and I won't repeat myself from the previous cash shop thread	
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God no. I've played enough shitty korean MMOs to know that's really not the direction Carbine should be taking. I can imagine seeing all the players with wings and sparkles levitating all over Thayd and it'd just ruin immersion.
 
A slight alternative? I'd really love some nice physical trinkets or what have you to buy outside of the game. Wildstar stickers (exile or dominion faction tags), keychains, posters (I'd love something to put over my battlestation), or hell, even inexpensive little skeech or rowsdower plushies. Plushies are already in the game already, so why not? And the art in this game is lovely, so let's show it off!	
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So what if its the same idea just add the option to pay in game with CREDD and with real money in the shop?
 
WoW makes a ton of money selling unique pets and mounts and its not something that would hurt the game.	
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1, yes.
2, We already have this and it's over-priced.
3, yes
4 is taken care of by 1.  Unless you mean face/hair/body changes then, eeeeh I'd rather see an in-game plastic surgeon, but meh.
5, hell no, that's a SMALL gold expense only.
5b-6, they need to add more in-game acquired mounts and pets first. (And fix the tail issue!!!)	
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I support some of these, but not all.
 
Name change and race change, that's fine.  Guild and Circle renames, those might also be better added.  Maybe something like a character redux on the face or body style as well.
 
Hair style and color change?  That ought to be an in-game money type of thing.  People change their hair fairly often.  I'd almost think that adding "tattoos" or "piercings" would be cool as well if they can make that function.  I'd love to deck Seeger out in a bunch of piercings and tats!  I'd pay plat for that (and, let's face it, if people will pay top plat, they'll buy CREDD for it as well).
 
Items on a cash shop?  I've outlined a way to do that, sort of.  I said that the ONLY way that would be acceptable is if they handed those out as monthly subscription rewards (including CREDD activated accounts, of course), then charged money for all the people that weren't around to get the items.  Then they could charge for those items afterwards for people joining the game that weren't around for their release (and also making those purchasable with CREDD).  That means people would essentially be paying backwards to months they weren't here, but subscribers ALWAYS get everything.  Anything more than that is trying to get people to pay above and beyond their subscription for the game content, which is unacceptable.
 
If mounts, plugs, costumes, etc. were added that way, though, that'd be okay.  Pets are in the same boat, but at the moment I think Carbine is still figuring out how to make them work.  I think they have/had vanity pets in the game, they just haven't implemented them yet.
 
I don't think any of this needs to be in-game, though.  That's a pretty substantial investment in the UI, and we've got bigger fish to fry.	
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This is needed and a great idea. Taking a page out of the book of the most sucessful MMO of all time is not a bad idea and gives Carbine a new source of revenue and everything the players want.
 
Heres what would be great to see in it.
 
1. faction changes
 
2. name changes
 
3. race changes
 
4. Completely character overhaul
 
5. Hairstyle change (at least till they implement a barber shop or something)
 
5. MOUNTS. SPECIAL MOUNTS: Why? It gives the creative guys at Carbine something special to work on and give us, just like blizzards do and no ones forcing you to buy them.
 
6. PETS: Again, special ones just like wow that are unique and celebrates Carbine and the game. Hell even a pet that just had the Carbine logo with arms and feet etc lol. Again no one is forcing you to buy them.
 
ALL THIS would give Carbine a new revenue stream and give the players what they want, all conveniently and IN GAME.
 
I see now downside to this what so ever.
 
Thoughts?
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1. Fraction change.... Well it should be possible, as story line is close to be same, but still have mixed feelings about it.
2. Name change is already possible, but it should be possible to buy in CREEDs as for any special in-game action
3. Well why not, but once again CREED...
4. Well it should be possible with in-game currency
5. Same as above
6. As for mounts and pets (and any visual upgrade) hell NO! Of course even now you can have them now by buying CREEDs, but you still need to do something usually (farm reputation/ranking/whatever).
 
CREED system is good in many ways, so why waste it? Right now if some1 do not have time to farm in-game gold and still wanna buy some expensive item/customization, he/she buy CREED and sell it in-game for required amount of plat. That also make game more populated, as players that will not pay subscription fee are playing cuz they have time to farm plat. Win-Win. If there will be separate Cash Shop, than players will buy something from carbine and that's it. Besides now expensive customizations are only real in-game gold sinks, without them we will have everything much more expensive and therefore less populated servers.	
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1. Fraction change.... Well it should be possible, as story line is close to be same, but still have mixed feelings about it.
2. Name change is already possible, but it should be possible to buy in CREEDs as for any special in-game action
3. Well why not, but once again CREED...
4. Well it should be possible with in-game currency
5. Same as above
6. As for mounts and pets (and any visual upgrade) hell NO! Of course even now you can have them now by buying CREEDs, but you still need to do something usually (farm reputation/ranking/whatever).
 
CREED system is good in many ways, so why waste it? Right now if some1 do not have time to farm in-game gold and still wanna buy some expensive item/customization, he/she buy CREED and sell it in-game for required amount of plat. That also make game more populated, as players that will not pay subscription fee are playing cuz they have time to farm plat. Win-Win. If there will be separate Cash Shop, than players will buy something from carbine and that's it. Besides now expensive customizations are only real in-game gold sinks, without them we will have everything much more expensive and therefore less populated servers.
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*Twitch*
C.R.E.D.D*
C.R.E.D.D*
C.R.E.D.D*
C.R.E.D.D*
C.R.E.D.D*
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What the hell did he say?
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			Lol... but it sounds perfectly clear to me:P	
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Meh, I don't know how keen I am on in-game cash shops when I'm already paying $15 a month just to log into the game.  If a company drops the sub-fee and/or makes the sub-fee optional, then I'm cool with the idea of having a cash shop.  As it stands though, I have to pay $15 just to log in, and I don't mind doing that with the expectation that since it's mandatory in order to play, then the developers will in turn devote their time to providing a higher quantity of higher quality content as opposed to tending to the cash-shop.
 
I don't think I would be cool with them creating stuff for use in the game, then hiding it behind a second cash wall beyond the sub-fee.
 
Drop the sub-fee and include a cash-shop - or - Keep the sub-fee and devote development time to making my subscription more worth my money, but I'm not a fan of having the Sub and a Cash Shop.	
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Hey Everyone - 
 
Just a reminder to keep all posts on topic. We hate closing otherwise good threads simply because they get derailed.
 
Thanks	
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			No. Just no. WoW (along with other cash shop customer milking games) has done enough damage to the MMO market already, let's move away from that now.	
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As someone else said: One of the biggest perks of a subscription MMO is the idea that everything should be obtainable ingame without having to pay extra, If you start implementing cash shops, you might as well go full F2P. What/how/if F2P should be implemented is an entirely different discussion.
 
Yes, WoW gets away with a cash shop, but let's not forget that WoW even gets away with an antire year without any content updates, which would absolutely murder any other MMO. Anyone who is not a WoW fanatic would strongly condemn the combination of a 15 dollar/month subscription with an ingame cash shop.	
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			I'd rather earn my cosmetic stuff through in-game means. It gets me to play the game and have a goal. I wouldn't go the same way as the Strain Hoverboard because 150p is just not easy or fun to get for that single purpose. I really miss rare mount farming. It could be frustrating, but it definently killed time for me and was an amazing feeling to finally acquire said mount. 	
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			faction change and race change I am ok with, everything else....NO	
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I wouldn't want a cash shop in the game unless WildStar offered a F2P option, and even then, ideally, I wouldn't want the cash shop to include things that subscribers couldn't get by virtue of subscribing. It should contain items that F2P players could purchase to bring their experience of the game up to subscriber level. For example, it subscribers got boosted XP, F2P players could purchase a non-stacking potion of boosted XP to give them the same XP boost as subscribers. If subscribers get 12 character slots, F2P players would get fewer character slots but could unlock more slots (up to a total of 12) through the cash shop. Same with bag slots and other typical restrictions on F2P players. Subscribers should never feel the need to open the cash shop because their needs should be met through subscribing.
 
I don't really want a cash shop full of vanity pets, cosmetic items and mounts, although it wouldn't be so bad if there were ways to gain cash shop currency in-game (like through dailies or achievements).	
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I'm kind of torn on this. But all said, my vote would be a big fat "no" to cash shops in-game.
 
It's part principle. A game with a sub fee should absolutely not have any of their development team working on content to be sold with real dollars. That's lame. :P
 
However... WoW's cash shop has never really bothered me, for two main reasons: 
1. They stick to cosmetics
 
2. The game already has a very impressive selection of cosmetics that you can earn without real money
 
WoW waited awhile before they went the cash shop route for mounts and pets. They waited even longer before they put a cash shop icon in the game. They also sometimes give part of the earnings to charities. These are all points in favour of WoW.
 
However, one thing I don't like, the coolest new mounts seem to be trending exclusively into the cash shop now. That's no good.
 
For any Carbine folks who actually read this, here's my recommendation, and I know it won't mean much... :P
 
DOTA has the best monetary system I've ever seen in any video game, hands down. The title is F2P, but there are no gameplay-influencing stuff in the cash shop. In addition, the cash shop does not invade the game space (play screen), although it is deeply integrated into the log-in UI and, more recently, the character selection screen (note that this also comes with a QOL increase for players, as now we can preview sets in a much more convenient way from the char select screen).
 
This is all good. But what I love, what I really LOVE about DOTA's system, is that the player community are able to submit art for new cash shop costumes. From my view, this is the best possible thing that can come from F2P: Outsourcing production AND vision to the players. It cuts down on Valve's development time, it gives players a chance to shape the game (as well as a bit of money), and it speeds up cosmetic updates. I see this as nothing but win, for everyone.
 
In context, Wildstar has a ton of customization options. So my question is: Would you be able to design a system similar to DOTA's that would welcome community submissions for new decor items, costume pieces, gear sets, mount types, mount flairs, etc.? In my ideal world, Carbine would only sell back to the community cosmetics which the community themselves produce, i.e., Player X submits a decor design, Carbine polishes and puts it on the shop, and the submitting player gets a cut from all sales. Meanwhile, cosmetics designed in-house go straight to the game world— no cash shop monetizing for stuff produced by the studio.
 
That's my view on the situation. MOBAs are of course different from MMOs, so take it with a grain of salt. ;)	
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I'm kind of torn on this. But all said, my vote would be a big fat "no" to cash shops in-game.
 
It's part principle. A game with a sub fee should absolutely not have any of their development team working on content to be sold with real dollars. That's lame. :P
 
However... WoW's cash shop has never really bothered me, for two main reasons:
 
1. They stick to cosmetics
 
2. The game already has a very impressive selection of cosmetics that you can earn without real money
 
WoW waited awhile before they went the cash shop route for mounts and pets. They waited even longer before they put a cash shop icon in the game. They also sometimes give part of the earnings to charities. These are all points in favour of WoW.
 
However, one thing I don't like, the coolest new mounts seem to be trending exclusively into the cash shop now. That's no good.
 
For any Carbine folks who actually read this, here's my recommendation, and I know it won't mean much... :P
 
DOTA has the best monetary system I've ever seen in any video game, hands down. The title is F2P, but there are no gameplay-influencing stuff in the cash shop. In addition, the cash shop does not invade the game space (play screen), although it is deeply integrated into the log-in UI and, more recently, the character selection screen (note that this also comes with a QOL increase for players, as now we can preview sets in a much more convenient way from the char select screen).
 
This is all good. But what I love, what I really LOVE about DOTA's system, is that the player community are able to submit art for new cash shop costumes. From my view, this is the best possible thing that can come from F2P: Outsourcing production AND vision to the players. It cuts down on Valve's development time, it gives players a chance to shape the game (as well as a bit of money), and it speeds up cosmetic updates. I see this as nothing but win, for everyone.
 
In context, Wildstar has a ton of customization options. So my question is: Would you be able to design a system similar to DOTA's that would welcome community submissions for new decor items, costume pieces, gear sets, mount types, mount flairs, etc.? In my ideal world, Carbine would only sell back to the community cosmetics which the community themselves produce, i.e., Player X submits a decor design, Carbine polishes and puts it on the shop, and the submitting player gets a cut from all sales. Meanwhile, cosmetics designed in-house go straight to the game world— no cash shop monetizing for stuff produced by the studio.
 
That's my view on the situation. MOBAs are of course different from MMOs, so take it with a grain of salt. ;)
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I agree with this humble guy
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Wow...you actually said something I agree with...kudos :)
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			The only way I'll agree to a cash shop is 1) There's an in-game means to earn the currency AND 2) It's restricted to services only, NO IN GAME ITEMS NO MATTER HOW TRIVIAL. Race changes, gender changes, faction changes, path changes, those I can deal with as long as there is a way to earn it in game, too. Mounts, pets or anything that is used in game, no way.	
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They are not implementing ANYTHING cosmetical in the game, because they are too busy working with drops and getting them all bug free.
We probably wont see things like pets, cool costumes and new mounts for years.	
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The moment someone suggests "paid faction change" or "paid class change" I want to reach through the Internet and smack them. Subscription, Buy to Play, Free to Play, or Hybrid: those are two things that players should never, ever suggest.
 
 
 
Argument against number 1 (the slippery slop fallacy):
 
From my experience I've found that paid class and faction changes tend to be the straws that break the camel's back: once you've done these things, it becomes so easy for both the Devs and customers to go to the next step, selling power. Paid class and faction changes mean that you're paying to NOT play the game, and once you've done that the first time it becomes easier to justify the next step. Maybe it's "catch up gear", or instant max level characters, or maybe it's something else entirely; but the moment you pay to by-pass playing the game you open the floodgates to more of that. Anyone who's played DC Universe Online, Rift or World of Warcraft can see the precedents. Selling class and faction changes in a Wildstar cash store doesn't guarantee that they'll start selling power, but it's makes the likelihood much greater. And if players would rather pay money than play through your content, then that heavily suggests there's something wrong with your content.
 
 
Argument against number 2 (the content argument):
 
In the realm of Sci-Fi and Fantasy fiction, dramatic/traumatic events that drastically alter a character's abilities and/or loyalties are a standard part of genre(s); ergo, they could potentially be made into playable content for a video game set within those genres. However, if those things are sold as "account services", you realistically lose any possibility of the developers creating that playable content as it would both cut off a source of revenue and/or upset customers who had paid for those services (possibly multiple times for some customers).
 
 
 
 
I have no issue personally with anything else on the OP's list, but I am absolutely 150% opposed to paid faction and class changes because players shouldn't be paying to not play the game; and because adding these "services" preempts the possibility of seeing these implemented as playable features in game. 	
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			Adding to the chorus of no.	
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I feel like character re-customizations and race changes definitely should be buyable services.
 
Especially if they ever release new race/class combos, AURIN WARRIOR PREZE.	
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			NO	
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Putting content behind the bars of a cash shop was one of the main reasons I left wow, I don't care what anybody says....mounts are items you use in-game, they are content!
All and any item in a sub based game should be available to players by PLAYING !
Race changes ARE A SERVICE.....lets not get the two mixed up	
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mounts are items you use in-game, they are content!
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To be honest I don't mind cash shops as long as they are purely cosmetic and you don't need to buy items from there for achievements.
 
You don't need to buy the item if you don't want to and if it helps keep content rolling out and servers up is it a BAD thing?	
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I'm kind of torn on this. Cash shops tend to change the focus from content to making more money from the shop. 
 
I could probably live with a shop that provided on visual items like costumes or mounts with the same speed but look different. 
 
I for sure don't want to see things like stat buffs or exp potions. Those have a way of becoming mandatory for game play (like raids) and ruin everything.	
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			why not just put that stuff on the different currency vendors we have, why hide it behind a pay wall?	
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No
 
No
 
And No	
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			I'm fine with things like character remodels and race changes in a cash shop but am completely against any in-game items being cash purchases.  No mounts, no pets, no fancy costumes.  I pay a subscription to be able to work for in-game items rather than pay additional costs for them.	
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Argument against number 1 (the slippery slop fallacy):
 
From my experience I've found that paid class and faction changes tend to be the straws that break the camel's back: once you've done these things, it becomes so easy for both the Devs and customers to go to the next step, selling power.
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I don't mind the idea of a cash shop for cosmetic items.
 
i know I would use it and spend real $ for items such as Mount's , Costumes/Skins, Housing and pets.
 
It's understandable why some are aginst the idea just saying I would use it depending on what was available.
 
I will and can spend real $ instead of working/farming for certain items. I'm aware many can't or don't think you should be able to but as I said before, everyone will never agree on this.
 
I don't have a lot of free time as it is so any shinny I wanted that I could purchase I would do so. This allows me personally to enjoy the game the way I like. I don't want to spend what time I have farming a mount. That for me is not fun even if it is for you.	
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So what if its the same idea just add the option to pay in game with CREDD and with real money in the shop?
 
WoW makes a ton of money selling unique pets and mounts and its not something that would hurt the game.
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			Not just NO, but, HELL NO!!!	
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why not just put that stuff on the different currency vendors we have, why hide it behind a pay wall?
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Sorry Mad, I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say here.
 
I admitted that the Slippery Slope argument is a fallacy before even starting: my point that concludes because A happens, B and C must also happen is an unprovable assumption of course. However, when based on anecdotal precedents (the observations of myself and others), several other games that offer cash shop services that these two particular items seem to represent the tipping point towards crossing the line, or at least moving into a very gray area. I didn't try to pass this point off as fact: I said up front that the argument was based on a fallacy.
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I know it was a little weird to point out that it's a fallacious argument, but I knew someone would, so I headed them off at the pass.
 
I have no issue with species changes, that's just cosmetic; and XP boosts are fine as well, as the player still has to play the game in order to get the benefit (so they're just a convenience); but faction changes says that the leveling and gearing processes are too tedious to want to do again, and/or too time consuming for all but the player with 30 hours or more per week to play. This means that you can use tedium to push your customers into paying more, so then you start making design decisions that make single play-throughs of content fun enough, but repeated runs are so boring that players become willing to pay to flat out by-pass it. I know that it's a slippery slope argument, but there is enough precedents both in Asian and Western MMOs to make it a real concern.
 
Besides, while I have no issue with cash shops, a subscriber's default stance should always be to ask for reasonable features (and I consider class and faction changes to be reasonable) to be implemented as content in game, not as content in the cash shop.	
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1, 2, 3, and 4 are all account-related convenience services that Carbine could charge for and I wouldn't be upset.
 
5A, 5B, and 6 are all things that should be included with regular game content and not in a cash shop.
 
So, yes to account services and no to a cash shop.	
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			I am about ready to pay real cashy money for a third LAS since the elder gem vendor is broken and honestly I'd like to have it on several for my characters before they reach level 50... (so I can hold a quest/leveling spec, grouping/off spec, & PvP spec)	
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