123910-b2p-sub-credd-suggestion-page-5

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Money > Gems > Gold > Any gear in the game except for things purchased with Dungeon Tokens.
 
You can use real money to buy gems to turn into gold to buy a damn Legendary Weapon off of the AH.  That -blows.-
 
EDIT:  You already mentioned that.  Well, at least you know.
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For the legendary I agree, I too dont like that part, they should be bound to account when created at least or they are not ... legendary :)
 
Money > everything equation is same in all games regardless to payment model, even in P2P one will go to @!$#@%#$ goldseller and get the same, only difference is that in this case it's safe and developers get's the money instead of some s***head.
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What makes you think the reason they aren't going to ads is based on math?
 
Let me know where you think I'm wrong.  I did it on the chalkboard in front of you.
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Bussines is based on math -- if they can get more money with less investment they'll go for it.
 
When you do your presentation on the whiteboard in front of MMORPG publisher execs and sell it to them I'll gladly accept it as proof.
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If that were all that mattered, there wouldn't be F2P, just CREDD and PLEX style systems everywhere and there would be a lot of vendors selling things exclusively for absurdly high amounts of currency.
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Bussines is based on math -- if they can get more money with less investment they'll go for it.
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here we go again...
You do know you can play and do everything in GW2, there is no playable content locked behind a pay well and there are no limitation how many times you can do a dungeon for example.
As for their cash shop you can get the cash shop currency by trading in ingame money.
 
Also i did not ask about you personal, but how you think GW2 is making more money then WS so almost everything you said did not answer my question.
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Nobody says it doesn't earn money.  But enough money?  That's another question.  Or as much money as they could possibly make?  That's another question.  Or how much of that money is directed specifically at gameplay improvements?  Another question.
 
More important, is the bolded portion.  Here's the simple logic I had to go through:
 
-What do I have now?  The current Wildstar which I pay 15 dollars a month for, and in return get access to the entirety of the game's developed content, the same as everyone else who pays 15 dollars or eats a 20 dollar CREDD.
 
-Is that a lot of money?  Unreasonable for the  game?  No, I've played plenty of subscription games that I got less from for that amount, particularly WoW.
 
-If this game goes F2P, will 15 dollars a month still get me access to the entirety of the game's developed content?  No.  If it did, it wouldn't be able to use me as a whale.  They need that to pay for the free players.
 
-If I don't pay enough to get access to the entirety of the game's developed content, will I get less game for my money?  Yes, they will still be making shop content rather than game content to some degree.
 
-Am I willing to pay more for what they'll be offering?  No.  I never used cash shops in any other games for items.
 
-Do I think I can get a better deal elsewhere?  Yes.
 
I have no idea why I'd want to stay.  The entire nature of the game, my relationship with NCSoft and Carbine, and my own personal expected investment are completely different.  That changes things considerably, and even if I thought the gameplay wasn't going to degrade, it will certainly not be the same deal I'm getting now.  It's only logical for me.
 
This doesn't happen in an ad-funded free option, because my deal doesn't change.  It's entirely self-contained.
 
 
 
Another thing EVE does that likely helps.  Also being able to use your in-game money on a lapsed account to buy a CREDD from the market to activate.
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here we go again...
You do know you can play and do everything in GW2, there is no playable content locked behind a pay well and there are no limitation how many times you can do a dungeon for example.
As for their cash shop you can get the cash shop currency by trading in ingame money.
 
Also i did not ask about you personal, but how you think GW2 is making more money then WS so almost everything you said did not answer my question.
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Money > Gems > Gold > Any gear in the game except for things purchased with Dungeon Tokens.
 
You can use real money to buy gems to turn into gold to buy a damn Legendary Weapon off of the AH.  That -blows.-
 
EDIT:  You already mentioned that.  Well, at least you know.
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As a cautionary tale, and speaking from personal experience: the 2 week release cadence ANet has for the Living World content really strains the teams actively working on them.  There is no recuperation, no pauses to assess effectiveness, just "finish this release, you're already behind on the next one."
 
It might be great for the playerbase but it's debilitating for the studio.  Please keep the actual people working on the game in mind.
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The personal tidbit was just a small side note to encourage remembering that the developers are human beings.
 
Also, there is absolutely content locked behind a pay wall.  Did you forget about having to pay gems to play previous Living World releases if you missed the time frame on them, or any of the exclusive rewards associated with them?
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So NCSoft decides to release the game as a subscription game, and retain it thus, but obviously they aren't doing it right and the game should have gone B2P already.  And yet, now, they are paragons of business logic who would never make a mistake or do something for non-monetary means?  Even though you have no idea why I'd be wrong, you're assuming I'm wrong because you assume they would have switched over to this model by now because it makes more money?
 
You may want to rethink the free to play future, then.  Because, one day, there will be more people playing video games than watching television if they aren't already.  And then you'll see ads the likes of which you haven't seen before.  They're already starting in big-ticket releases.  Soon enough, they'll come calling to MMORPGs.  Just a matter of time.
 
Better hope they bother retaining a subscription option.  We wouldn't want anyone to have to be stuck with the repercussions of a payment system they don't want, but have to live with.
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That wasn't directed at you Vince.
 
Oh that yes, i did forget about that but that is the only part but you can still access them with ingame currency and they were free once... but yes that is behind a pay wall now.
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I wouldn't say it was worth it for the teams involved.  Yeah, we did it, but the content and rewards were only available for 2 weeks and then they vanished.  6 months of work for 2 weeks of payoff, coupled with 100-hour weeks, stretches of 2 months with no weekends or free time, and numerous other things that battered our personal lives just didn't balance the scales for a lot of folks.
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CREDD, PLEX, RIFT one and the wow thingie are added late to the game as a cheap way of adding another revenue stream (PLEX especially as its destroyable) and they did (or will) created big inflatory spikes in the game economies when introduced and their prices are just going straight up driving the same trend for the in game items.
 
When game's model not P2P from the start currency exchange is much better way for that as they allow more player freedom and promote use as they do not have upper and lower limits on amount bought or sold.
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But you guys did it!
If it's the right way or not that i don't know.
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This is exactly why I am against the game dropping its current payment model.  "Less investment" can mean anything from less stability to less content.
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... but its still way better than no investment due to low population and that the main point me and others argue about (and that was in reply to the ad based model idea not any of the existing ones)
 
Simply, I'd not have any problem paying sub for WS (as I'm doing now) but what I'm getting for that is not enough compared to the current competition, OTOH I do like the game and want for it to prosper and have a lot of players around so considering all other releases in 10 or so years I'm pointing to the one possible direction which IMHO will do that.
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Why did you not protest against it?
 
That is a bit easy to ask of course... 
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(dang I now I hate this forum editor with passion :angry:)
 
@Vince Yeah GW2 S2 is locked behind the paygate if you did not login to get it but its not much different than any time exclusive around and players (at least forum dwellers) asked for it (still asking for S1). It's totaly optional but IMHO its a nice way to monetize content which was initialy given for free.
 
@Vic If I had better and new ide how to monetize games I'd be out there pitching it left and right instead spending days coding backends for the webshops :lol:
Also, IMHO at the time of initial push when released WS had their chance to add changes and pull bigger crowds and have viable P2P population, now, I'm afraid it's too late.	
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(dang I now I hate this forum editor with passion :angry:)
 
@Vince Yeah GW2 S2 is locked behind the paygate if you did not login to get it but its not much different than any time exclusive around and players (at least forum dwellers) asked for it (still asking for S1). It's totaly optional but IMHO its a nice way to monetize content which was initialy given for free.
 
@Vic If I had better and new ide how to monetize games I'd be out there pitching it left and right instead spending days coding backends for the webshops :lol:
Also, IMHO at the time of initial push when released WS had their chance to add changes and pull bigger crowds and have viable P2P population, now, I'm afraid it's too late.
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Did not know that you worked on GW2 and for what is worth I want to say thanks for the great work you all done there. Even with all it's shortcomnings GW2 is still very high on my top list of games.
Also as someone who work with QA on the daily basis I know how hard and stressful it can be (and we developers are not easisest bunch to endure ;)) so, again kudos for the great work.
 
Back to topic (TL;DR sort of) -- I think that most of us involved here agree that something must be done to get WS back on track, I may be "blinded" with apparent "success" of the other games who transitioned payment models but that fact still remains: WS need new players, badly and something needs to be done about that before it... I wont say it :)
 
I'm just afraid that after launch they dont have anything big enough left for another marketing push except bussines model change.
 
But I think I was hijacking this thread long enough (eating my already short free play time) so I'll take a break (for now).
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Did not know that you worked on GW2 and for what is worth I want to say thanks for the great work you all done there. Even with all it's shortcomnings GW2 is still very high on my top list of games.
Also as someone who work with QA on the daily basis I know how hard and stressful it can be (and we developers are not easisest bunch to endure ;)) so, again kudos for the great work.
 
Back to topic (TL;DR sort of) -- I think that most of us involved here agree that something must be done to get WS back on track, I may be "blinded" with apparent "success" of the other games who transitioned payment models but that fact still remains: WS need new players, badly and something needs to be done about that before it... I wont say it :)
 
I'm just afraid that after launch they dont have anything big enough left for another marketing push except bussines model change.
 
But I think I was hijacking this thread long enough (eating my already short free play time) so I'll take a break (for now).
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I'm not mad.  Won't have any regrets if I back out.  But I'm the whale in this equation.  I've got a lot of money on my hands.  I'm your "rich whale kid" (really 30 and I just have a good job).  I'm the guy NCSoft is counting on to stick around and fund this thing to the tune of a few hundred dollars a month.
 
I'm just not, there are sub games giving me a better deal elsewhere that suddenly become worth it.
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VicVanMeter, on 27 Mar 2015 - 7:57 PM, said:
I think I can help you figure out what's going on.  Let's do a reverse project.  GW2 launched B2P.  Let's say they have to do the reverse of what we're talking about here.  What would they have to do to make GW2 a million-subscriber game with nothing more than a 15 dollar a month subscription fee.  Just, what do you think would be necessary on their part to make that happen.
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The only part of B2P that this game doesn't have is the player retention that B2P games have, because most people who buy the game aren't willing to pay a subscription on top of a box price AND aren't willing to farm plat for hours on end just for the privilege of playing a game that they already paid a box price for. The fact is that they don't have to. Most of this game's competitors won't make them do that.
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1. And still those with unreliable income sources pull a lot bigger player and/on earnings numbers that this "secure" income game.
 
And I'll bite ... (slow day @work ;) )
 
2. GW2 money gouging?!?!?!?!?!?1! even biggest GW2 haters will never say that, care to explain? 
 
Granted, WS community (as in most online games) is not perfect, but I'll never go that far calling it s*** (in any game, even in LoL and CoD there are good parts).
 
Blind fanboyism and "my way or game should die" attitude create s*** parts of the community, and it seems to me that in any game (or any other community) one will end up in the part of the community which is most similar/appropriate for it.
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UPDATE: Currently standing in Academy Corner in Thayd and I am seeing an all time low in the last month or so, counting at 41 people, yesterday on prime time there was only 73 for a few hours, and 50-60 before than, I am seeing a slow decrease now, Drop 4 was a ton of content and brought people back into the game, but I feel those people are not subbing for April and are already done playing. Drop 5 will keep people in for 1-2 months than it will be a repeat.
 
I have completely made up my mind, Wildstar NEEDS to either go to a 3 month subscription service, or switch over to a buy to play/sub model.
 
I am not saying they couldn't stay a sub game and do...meh, but you people are forgetting two major releases coming soon
 
FINAL FANTASY HEAVENSWARD
 
AND
 
GUILD WARS 2: HEART OF THORNS.
 
I know of plenty of people who love FFXIV, and love Guild Wars 2, and I am sure there are a ton in WS, and I guarantee Wildstar is going to take two major blows this year unless they change the buisness model in some way, personally I think every 3 months is the way to go because it doesn't pressure people and they will probably just wait anyway to resub. Along with the shop, it may not bring in as much people as b2p, but it would help bring people in while somewhat retaining our awesome community. Not to mention we also have SkyForge coming probably in fall, which will also do a smaller blow. I don't think Wildstar at it's current numbers can satisfy people over these larger games, and I doubt NCsoft will allow carbine to do a marketing campaign right next to GW2 expansion marketing. Wildstar needs something, give people a free month would also be viable, but wouldn't fix the issue.
Granted, neither would 3month/b2p, but they would be a huge bandaid. RIFT is f2p/sub and they produce good content... I don't see the complaint of bad content release honestly, but I do see the community issue.	
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Imagine for a minute how freaking dumb it would sound if a dev went to stand in Academy Corner and said "wow, not many people standing here.... we better change the business model."
 
That's not how decisions are made. Now stop posting nonsense.
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UPDATE: Currently standing in Academy Corner in Thayd and I am seeing an all time low in the last month or so, counting at 41 people, yesterday on prime time there was only 73 for a few hours, and 50-60 before than, I am seeing a slow decrease now, Drop 4 was a ton of content and brought people back into the game, but I feel those people are not subbing for April and are already done playing. Drop 5 will keep people in for 1-2 months than it will be a repeat.
 
I have completely made up my mind, Wildstar NEEDS to either go to a 3 month subscription service, or switch over to a buy to play/sub model.
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Would this be a good time to bring up the financials? Or do those not influence the business model either?
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I can (as always) only speak from my experience but days of sticking to the one game are passed even with the older MMORPG crowd.
That's the main thing pushing people like myself towards B2P titles, not the cost, heck I probably spend more $$ on GW2 costumes and RIFT stuff than subbing in any sub game I played (and not regretting it).
It's just that nasty nagging feeling when I'm paying the sub and dont have time/will to play it that I'm "wasting" money even tough I do get a lot from it, I had it in WoW, FFXIV and here just the same, less in EVE due to their offline training.
 
And there is also that moment when I want to return to game ... hmmm got bored again, what to play now ... hey I want to play X again ... <beep> please insert your CC here ... :unsure:
 
At least dropping box price may be a start to get some new people, I did not played WS for a long time just because of that (till I got it very cheap recently). It's not a direct money issue but, for me is a nasty form of double dipping I don't like -- same happened with SWTOR and I still refuse to buy another copy of FFXIV to play on my PS4. When a "box" price drops to just above month of sub more people will be inclined to try it (current $40 is still to high IMHO).
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Imagine for a minute how freaking dumb it would sound if a dev went to stand in Academy Corner and said "wow, not many people standing here.... we better change the business model."
 
That's not how decisions are made. Now stop posting nonsense.
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Sadly, all your comments have nothing to do with it all except helping yourself to Wildstar content. 
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From where you're sitting, as a non-employee outside of the company? Not in the slightest.
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 :lol: From where I'm sitting, here's what I can see:
 
articles on MMORPG genre-wide sites wondering why this game is still clinging to its business model from launch.
collapse of Carbine's own justification for their business model.
introduction of in-game gambleboxes containing raid gear.
empty queues during leveling at all times.
empty queues for veteran content and endgame PvP outside of primetime.
massive CREDD price spikes on the only EU server left with any appreciable population.
declining population in capitals.
declining activity on forums and reddit.
dismal game revenues.
 
Oh, and the publisher's main shareholder moving to take over because the publisher isn't making enough money, even though every other title in their portfolio is doing much better than this one.
 
So I can see plenty from where I'm sitting. But by all means, condescend moar, plz.
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MMORPG sites always write articles about why X game is still "clinging to its business model", every single time. Because those people have a hard-on for F2P. Heck, there are people who want FFXIV to be F2P.
 
I wouldn't call it a collapse and I feel the game is still plenty worth $15/mo.
 
Empty queues can have other sources, though to be honest, they have been improving steadily.
 
The EU CREDD price is an EU-specific issue. NA server doesn't have this problem. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. It'd be better to figure out a way to bring in more EU folk specifically.
 
Population in the capitals has been steadily increasing even outside "primetime".
 
I don't go to reddit, so I can't speak to that. The activity here has been pretty constant for a while. Not spammy but not declining either.
 
Meh on the revenues. They seemed to be satisfied with it so far.	
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 :lol: From where I'm sitting, here's what I can see:
 
articles on MMORPG genre-wide sites wondering why this game is still clinging to its business model from launch.  Game article sites seem to have forgotten that old "if all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you?" anecdote.  The only reason they're ALWAYS asking this is because they're too used to new and sub-par games giving their core shit away for free.  Ain't their game to run, and the last article posted here was total shite.
collapse of Carbine's own justification for their business model.  Shit happens.  They're working hard to fix it.
introduction of in-game gambleboxes containing raid gear.  As an alternative for people who can't raid but can run vet shiphands/other stuff.
empty queues during leveling at all times.  Which queues?  Not being snarky, I want to know.
empty queues for veteran content and endgame PvP outside of primetime.  Population is still growing; primetime will be primetime.  Can't do much but wait on this one.
massive CREDD price spikes on the only EU server left with any appreciable population.  Might need dev intervention.
declining population in capitals.  I think anyone on any server but the PvP servers can speak against this.
declining activity on forums and reddit.  Couldn't be because of all the negativity and doomsaying, could it?  Fix this by being positive.
dismal game revenues.  According to the financial report posted before the biggest resub-worthy attractions were patched into the game.
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Even if WS ever went B2P, F2P, or whatever, if it had sub option, I would still sub.  I don't use the CREDD system even though I easily could play for free now.  I'd rather support the game and the devs as much as possible & I do that by subbing and trying to get people to play the game irl.  Wildstar is wayyyy too good of game to see fail imho.
 
/@sskissing done
 
Tru tho	
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MMORPG sites always write articles about why X game is still "clinging to its business model", every single time. Because those people have a hard-on for F2P. Heck, there are people who want FFXIV to be F2P.
 
I wouldn't call it a collapse and I feel the game is still plenty worth $15/mo.
 
Empty queues can have other sources, though to be honest, they have been improving steadily.
 
The EU CREDD price is an EU-specific issue. NA server doesn't have this problem. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. It'd be better to figure out a way to bring in more EU folk specifically.
 
Population in the capitals has been steadily increasing even outside "primetime".
 
I don't go to reddit, so I can't speak to that. The activity here has been pretty constant for a while. Not spammy but not declining either.
 
Meh on the revenues. They seemed to be satisfied with it so far.
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The idea of a new player buying the game and possibly a sub fee on top of that, only to be greeted with no queue pops or group content til 50, and at 50, only at peak hours, is insane...
 
how am i supposed to lure my friends / new people back? 
 
"Hey guys come play this fun mmo, but be warned you can only really do the fun stuff at certain times of the day" Dominion side on entity was at 90 minutes without a level 50 pbg popping....we are in real trouble here
 
extremely low population -> no queue pops -> no queue pops = ppl quit
 
I definitely prefer p2p over any other model, but the people who think this population will fix itself on its own are completely mental. What mmo do you know of that has ever recovered from a huge population drop like the one wildstar experienced? (without changing payment model) ...this game needs some sort of huge stimulus to save it	
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We could just go the TOR route and make F2P so incredibly gimped and expensive that the only sensible thing to do is subscribe.  Seems to have worked for them, love it or hate it.
 
Note:  I am not seriously suggesting any form of F2P.  I will never do that.  I am, in fact, dishing on TOR's horrible F2P system.  $10 for a skill bar, EA?  Really?
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			Just copy RIFTS f2p version, subs get some neat perks but it is perfectly viable to play as a f2p player and be just as good as p2p players	
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We all think the game is worth the 15 dollar sub fee, but that doesn't change the fact that there aren't many people in the "megaservers" actually paying the sub fee
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Just copy RIFTS f2p version, subs get some neat perks but it is perfectly viable to play as a f2p player and be just as good as p2p players
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Or, if you like and play the game, just pay for it. It's already got a business model.
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Unfortunately, the business model the game is currently using is failing.. or is it just the game thats failing hmmm.....
 
I get the impression you would rather see the game shut down than attempt to save it with a business model change
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F2P or B2P won't make queues pop at low levels.  Maybe for a short amount of time, but in the long run, it won't help at all.  A good way to get low level queues to pop would be to give an incentive for 50s to run pre-50 content.  FFXIV does this well by giving points for the weekly cap for doing a pre-50 dungeon.
 
Carbine has made changes since launch to reduce costs (megaservers and layoffs mainly) so its highly doubtful that they are not making money.  They can make more money under the current model by improving the game and getting more players invested in the game.  Simple as that.
 
If they want to either F2P or B2P (which would negate the fully functional and wildly successful CREDD system that another MMO is now copying) that's their choice.  They would upset two groups of current players: the ones that understand and support the subscription model and the ones that love CREDD.
 
At the end of the day this thread is meaningless because no company will gladly throw away a large amount of paying customers on a gamble that they can make more from having more customers, each paying less money.
 
Wildstar is not dead right now, but if you ever do see that F2P/B2P announcement, you can be sure it is at that point.	
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According to what?  An outdated financial report that didn't cover the latest drop, or Daewoo's non-NCSoft-related predictions?
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According to what?  An outdated financial report that didn't cover the latest drop, or Daewoo's non-NCSoft-related predictions?
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Oh, look. Data.
 
Stop that, this thread is no place for verifiable facts!  :lol:	
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			I strongly support a B2P + Credd option, ESO has gone B2P & their model is amazing It is litterally better than GW2's model.Now I am happy with sub model, but I depise f2p. B2P is a good alternative to the sub model.	
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I strongly support a B2P + Credd option, ESO has gone B2P & their model is amazing It is litterally better than GW2's model.
 
Now I am happy with sub model, but I depise f2p. B2P is a good alternative to the sub model.
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www.polygon.com/2014/8/14/6001503/star-wars-the-old-republic-2014-players-ea-bioware
 
If i read it correctly the population got threefolded and the revenue got doubled.	
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www.polygon.com/2014/8/14/6001503/star-wars-the-old-republic-2014-players-ea-bioware
 
If i read it correctly the population got threefolded and the revenue got doubled.
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That article is from August and the post I'm assuming you're talking about was about the December expansion.
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TESO has been free for like a week, give it some time before you start sacrificing your children to it.
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That article is from August and the post I'm assuming you're talking about was about the December expansion.
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outdated? perhaps... Accurate information... absolutely
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I definitely prefer p2p over any other model, but the people who think this population will fix itself on its own are completely mental. What mmo do you know of that has ever recovered from a huge population drop like the one wildstar experienced? (without changing payment model) ...this game needs some sort of huge stimulus to save it
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Or, if you like and play the game, just pay for it. It's already got a business model.
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			If the q1 report is only slightly better, then you will all be right, and so will I, because I also believe the pop is growing, but not by a ton! It would probably take over a year just to get back at 300k subs, and maybe way more than that for launch numbers. But guess what, HeavenSward, Heart of Thorns, WoWs next expansion, Skyforge, Black Dessert, EQN (lol) and Crowfall (hahahahah such a PoS) will all get the mmo community hype and playing them, even with a PR push, Carbine is going to need help from god (or Drusera) to get Wildstar back in the ring.	
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For an MMO with a relatively niche genre, TSW has been doing fine since switching to a B2P + optional sub model. Granted, they charge extra for additional content, but subscribers are given enough of a monthly stipend of cash shop currency to afford it without paying any extra money, and Funcom has been coming out with more content since they went B2P.  ESO gives additional content to subscribers for free (in addition to a stipend), so the ESO deal is better than TSW's.
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			The only real issue I see with a b2p model is that Carbine is going to have to nerf the dungeons because they will be to hard for casuals	
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The only real issue I see with a b2p model is that Carbine is going to have to nerf the dungeons because they will be to hard for casuals
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There's another obvious issue with B2P, and it's probably the one that keeps coming up among Carbine's staff whenever the idea is floated.
 
If you no longer need to farm plat to play, then why would someone ever sell plat for CREDD? And if nobody needs to sell plat for CREDD, who's going to buy CREDD and give us the cash?
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CREDD price gets cut in half and it becomes a tool with which you attain sub status and get goodies and boosted whatevers, like in other games. Pretty much the exact same thing it is now, only cheaper cause cash currency is a *cupcake*.
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There's another obvious issue with B2P, and it's probably the one that keeps coming up among Carbine's staff whenever the idea is floated.
 
If you no longer need to farm plat to play, then why would someone ever sell plat for CREDD? And if nobody needs to sell plat for CREDD, who's going to buy CREDD and give us the cash?
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CREDD price gets cut in half...? The only part of CREDD's pricing that the game's developers can directly set is the cash price, and that can't go lower than the subscription fee or people start buying CREDD to use on their own subscriptions because it's cheaper...
 
"Goodies and boosted whatevers"? Are you getting those with your subscription? I think I've gotten two headpiece costume items... and around Christmas, they gave us some boomboxes... Oh, we got 3 emotes, too...
 
Other than that, what we've gotten is access to content. Do they make updates DLCs? Right now, with a quarterly release schedule we're paying about $45 or 45 plat per update. The value of being a subscriber has to be at least equal to the cost of the DLCs, or nobody will subscribe. Are you seriously proposing to charge B2P players $45 per DLC?  :lol:
 
Seriously, how is this going to work?
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Do you not even know what you posted?(you know, that thing I quoted in my post)
 
And yea, nobody on the forums knows whats gonna happen or how things will work if kaka occurs and the ship sinks.
No amount of discussion on the topic is worth a damn and threads like these are depressing and useless.
 
Are you seriously proposing to charge B2P players $45 per DLC?
Reported for trying to start a fight.
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I've decided your post is the biggest load of BS I've ever seen.Jabbit 12:40 pm, or maybe you should get up later! lmao was more players doing the daily run at 5 am than you have in your picture
 
P.S >>> SYSTEM <<< Marked your picture at 11:02  get out of here with your trolling
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Do it like Guild Wars 2
The cash shop use gems as currency and you can buy that for a fixed price with money.
Gems you can auction for ingame money, so those who play a lot (buy credd now) can buy gems with ingame money and buy things that way from the gem store.
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It wouldn't be up to Carbine so much as NCSoft.
I'd rather they went by FFXIV, with the frequent content updates and P2P nature.
Not the cash shop though, that shits a farce.
			
				
	Edited March 30, 2015 by CRB_Sunshine
	
		Response to removed post.	
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So, you are posting a few pics from the ONLY city on the ONLY PVE server in EU showing 20 ppls and call this what ... a crowded server ? Srsly ??
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This is what I was about to say. My only problem with that is that Carbine might be tempted to start developing only cosmetics for the cash shop rather than actual content for the game. 
But if GW2 is anything to go by, they seemed to be adding quite a few pieces of non-purely cosmetic content along their life. So I'm not sure. I'm just iffy around cash shops.
 
 
Reading this...it seems like a very direct insult to another forum member. Couldn't we say that with this you are trying to start a fight? :P
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The *cupcake*does that have to do with my post?
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The "cupcake" it has to do with your post is that TSW converted to a B2P + optional sub model long before ESO did and is doing well with it, and ESO's model is actually a better model than TSW's and it has a bigger following. It's not like the B2P + optional sub model has no track record.
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This is what I was about to say. My only problem with that is that Carbine might be tempted to start developing only cosmetics for the cash shop rather than actual content for the game.
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Looks like 74 people to me but whatever...But you are right, that is the hub of the entire European Exile population, if it said 300-500+ I would say the game is fine. But it's not. Only 82 in PRIMETIME right now, sure there are probably 10,000 plus people logged on, but I place player numbers at 100k, and thats probably being generous.
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Do it like Guild Wars 2
The cash shop use gems as currency and you can buy that for a fixed price with money.
Gems you can auction for ingame money, so those who play a lot (buy credd now) can buy gems with ingame money and buy things that way from the gem store.
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Low level zones are even worse (EU PvE) ... (IIRC) Dominion ... ~4 in tutorial, 1-2 in starter zones, Exile ~7 tutorial, 4-5 in starter zone, similar numbers in 20ish range.
 
Not only lower zones are empty but it seems that there is great faction inbalance which will get worse with time as people will concentrate to more populated side (not me tho, no Chua no play ;) )
 
And in 3-4hr I was online I saw just 4 messages in /global (noting in others) only (2x guild recruitment msg and 2x LFM tank for same instance).
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I don't personally have a problem with GW2's business model--with the caveat that parallel's Ildur's. Content is what brings people in to play. The problem arises when content isn't sold in the cash shop because then content doesn't show up as a revenue generator on some financial spreadsheet that gets used to decide where all the effort should go. 
 
But that's not keeping everyone's pre-existing model intact and tossing in something else to draw in more players, that's completely abandoning both subscriptions and CREDD. I don't see how they do that in practice because CREDD is a cash-based, tradable currency that has no value outside the game and no value the minute it becomes clear that the game won't continue to support it. Anyone who has a bunch of CREDD stockpiled is going to throw a fit if this game drops CREDD. I don't see how they're going to do that without losing an even larger chunk of their existing playerbase than a pure cash subscription-based game loses with the transition.
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This game NEEDS some sort of change, whether it be 3 month sub schedule or b2p, either would save this game MUCH faster than any PR push could dream of. Someone *cupcake*ing tell me how Wildstar will compete with the WoW token: and 6.2, someone tell me how it will compete with Heavensward, SOMEONE tell me how this will compete with Skyforge and Heart of Thorns! IT CAN'T, it will go right back to pre drop 4, with a slightly sustainable but in no way good or even decent player population, if all these new things weren't coming out, Wildstar would have a great chance, but it doesn't, and NCsoft won't allow a PR push alongside Heart of Thorns, so it's going to be awhile anyway.
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This game NEEDS some sort of change, whether it be 3 month sub schedule or b2p, either would save this game MUCH faster than any PR push could dream of. Someone *cupcake*ing tell me how Wildstar will compete with the WoW token: and 6.2, someone tell me how it will compete with Heavensward, SOMEONE tell me how this will compete with Skyforge and Heart of Thorns! IT CAN'T, it will go right back to pre drop 4, with a slightly sustainable but in no way good or even decent player population, if all these new things weren't coming out, Wildstar would have a great chance, but it doesn't, and NCsoft won't allow a PR push alongside Heart of Thorns, so it's going to be awhile anyway.
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SOMEONE tell me how this will compete with Skyforge
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Lot's of new games should be making there appearance this year Skyforge, Everquest Next, Cabal 2 and a few more on the way. 
 
It's been a year and we have made great progress in this game and if it had released in it's drop 4 state then it probably would be doing much better. But sadly it didn't and we spent a year beta testing some theories they had about 40 man and hardcore (failed). Most games after a year would be looking at dropping in an expansion or some new raids or something besides a dungeon and a couple daily zones. What do we have on store for our first drop after a full year of service one raid boss and some new daily zones and maybe another dungeon. I'm not saying drop 5 won't be well received but it's not going to change much. This game need a shot in the arm to get it back on track, I mean it can't be going to well when you need players but your drop off the circuit for conventions. 
 
The fact is if your raids take a year to beat for 90% of your players they probably aren't scaled quite right. On one hand it saves you from having to put time into content, no new raids for a year, or any events. On the other hand you lose players because they get tired of getting face rolled, and they won't be able to get to the new content without doing the old content. It also stops the viability for people to stream this game or to bring attention to it.
 
"Hey what are you doing on your channel tonight?"
 
"oh we are going to do GA."
 
"Seriously you guys are doing the same raid again" #signsoff
 
That's probably a little over dramatic but it feels that way sometimes. Not to mention people who didn't get into DS 40 are now slogging through DS 20. Same raid a year after launch. 
 
The combat in this game is so awesome and people love to play it pvp and PVE. It just needs to be a little more player friendly if that mean group finder raids so be it, if that mean getting rid of attunment or making it account wide so be it. Let's get on a real schedule where raids don't take a year to beat and we get to have some fun in this game. No I'm not saying that raids should be two weeks and done, but I think they should be scaled in a way that new raids are coming out more often, with a higher percentage of the population being able to achieve success in them more regularly. 	
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Yellow words hurts my eyes!
 
But don't worry man, Drop 5 the savior patch will save PVP and strengthen PVE. It will bring so many MANY PEOPLE BACK. Oh yea!  :lol:
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Including people who may of wanted to return to WS but now just go "meh I will just play this game that seems like better Destiny instead, YAY"
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Dang, you managed to sum-up exact feel I got from the Skyforge :D
 
But, yeah, we will see tons of releases this year few AAA and a lot of smaller ones so if one wants to keep players or get new ones they should be extra active pushing ... something or there will be yet another decline.
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They can do all the marketting they want, it still won't change the minds of the TONS of people with there hearts set on GW2, FFXIV, and Skyforge
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FIIIINE, I won't use yellow anymore.
 
I feel sarcasm in your post, but in case it is not. Drop 5 will not save shit, it will be drop 4 all over again, we get TONS of people flooding the capital and tons of people returning to the game all hype, then 95% of the those returning people jump ship again, so maybe we are seeing a 5% population increase every 3 months, YAAAAY -_____________-
 
But it is a new mmo that will build up hype alongside Heavensward, HoT, and Black Dessert, AND WOW, AND EQN (hahahhahahlol MY EYES) AND CROWFALL (lolz)
 
And sense it is a new mmo many people will get pumped for it. Including people who may of wanted to return to WS but now just go "meh I will just play this game that seems like better Destiny instead, YAY"
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Oh? They released a report stating that in Drop 4, 95% of the people who came back, left? Interesting.
 
I'm not calling you a Hyperbole Prone Idiot or anything, but can I see the figures from the financial report that has reported on this "fact"?
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I am sorry when and where did I say any of what I said was fact? I didn't, I was assuming, just like it's only assumption when I hear "the population is rising fast, q1 will be much better, Wildstar saved" ect. All I know is that drop 4 I saw 200 people on prime time, and now I see 80-120 on prime time. That is not healthy for the hub of the entire north american population, sure there are much more actually online but that doesn't make my point moot.
Can I see the figures that the game is on the rise?
There isn't any, just like there isnt any to say the game has gotten worse, I always say the game is growing, but I won't pretend it is healthy right now.
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I am sorry when and where did I say any of what I said was fact? I didn't, I was assuming, just like it's only assumption when I hear "the population is rising fast, q1 will be much better, Wildstar saved" ect. All I know is that drop 4 I saw 200 people on prime time, and now I see 80-120 on prime time. That is not healthy for the hub of the entire north american population, sure there are much more actually online but that doesn't make my point moot.
Can I see the figures that the game is on the rise?
There isn't any, just like there isnt any to say the game has gotten worse, I always say the game is growing, but I won't pretend it is healthy right now.
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Either, you're trying to backpedal because you were called out, or you seriously need an elementary school level lesson, in linguistics. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and thinking that it's #1. You made a blatant declarative statement when you said "Drop 5 will not save shit, it will be drop 4 all over again". And then proceeded in laying out "what happened".  There was no "I think" or anything that remotely implied an assumption.
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You are right, my bad, I THINK DROP 5 WONT SAVE SHIT. It's the same thing as people saying "pop is rising a ton everday" without any conclusive proof.
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Hey Folks,
 
No need to resort to insults here. If you want to continue the discussion, great, we encourage that. If you want to yell at each other or fling mud, there's better places. Lets try to get back on track please.
 
Thank you.
- Team WildStar 	
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Then you are not helping the game to improve.  You're just another doomsayer whose words will put potential players off the game.  That is more damaging than anything Carbine could do right now.
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Then you are not helping the game to improve.  You're just another doomsayer whose words will put potential players off the game.  That is more damaging than anything Carbine could do right now.
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