126076-wildstar-is-going-to-a-hybrid-free-to-play-model-in-august-what-are-your-thoughts-page-2

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While the rumor can't be confirmed the person did confirm his carbine employee status.
 
http://www.mmofringe.com/forum/5-Current-MMO-Games/34301-rumor-wildstar-going-to-a-hybrid-f2p-model-in-august#38780
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That person in question has now also been banned on reddit, with no explanation that I aware of, and the images of his W2 removed. So I don't know if he was debunked or not. 
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Yeah, I freaked out with what Fran did.  Someone put their neck out to reassure the playerbase and Fran completely betrayed that persons trust.  Like I said, I really hope NCS and CRB go lightly on that person, I wholey understand *why* they did it.  I know it's not great from a company standpoint, but I think it was almost necessary for the playerbase morale.
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I can't say i'm surprised, my impressions of her were never high even when i was actively engaged in this game. The amusing part is these white knights are as harmful as the trolls they aim to counter.
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read the post with the picture in it explains the situation, mmofringe kinda keeps track of such stories and doesn't participate in censorship of said information. 
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I read the post with the pic, and it doesn't say anything about what I said, which was that the supposed Carbine employee is *now* banned, and the pics of the W2 removed. If he was legit, why did they ban him?
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Since it breaks a NDA most likely. 
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Dude, you might want to slow your roll on that one.  The guy posted a W-2 with ArenaNet's address but Carbine's company name, then blatantly stated he had worked to make sure that someone else would get blamed for what he was doing.  I think that's really shitty and if the person in question is legitimate and actively working to get SOMEONE ELSE fired instead of them, they should be called out and dealt with.  I don't care who you are or what you think of Fran; someone deliberately breaking NDA (an agreement with harsh legal repercussions) and saying they'll force someone else to take the fall is horrible.
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I don't see anyone else taking the fall for simply posting the information.
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What does that have to do with reddit? The NDA is between the employee and Carbine, and Carbine does not own or run the reddit (unless they do behind the scenes, which we are not aware of).
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He blatantly said he was trying to get someone else to take the fall.
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Yeah, I freaked out with what Fran did.  Someone put their neck out to reassure the playerbase and Fran completely betrayed that persons trust.  Like I said, I really hope NCS and CRB go lightly on that person, I wholey understand *why* they did it.  I know it's not great from a company standpoint, but I think it was almost necessary for the playerbase morale.
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Fran, this is one thing I missed. Did NCSoft verify that the info was true when you spoke to them? That was hinted at on reddit, but I haven't been able to follow everything.
 
Edit: And is putting WS on Steam Machines by default really a thing?	
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They didn't put their neck out for the playerbase, they did it to spite the company and leak information.
NCSoft PR that spoke to me was pretty appreciative of my response and support for their interests and reporting this person to them.
 
It doesn't help the player base moral at all, it completely destroys confidence in the game.
It completely destroys potential sales they need to make salary to complete the transition to free to play and make sure the whole damn dev studio doesn't tank it.
 
Now that everyone knows the game is going F2P, people aren't gonna pay for their Subs or credd, they're gonna cancel them, and not buy credd.
Sales are going to TANK these next few months because some jerkass thought he was gonna spite the hell out of the company.
This jackass IS TRYING TO FRAME SOMEONE ELSE FOR THE FALL TOO.
You really think this guy has any respect for anyone or WildStar or NCSoft at all?
 
He doesn't give a damn, he was trying to spite Carbine, and NCSoft, and frame someone else for his downfall.
 
Now that everyone knows that WildStar is going F2P, expected sales and income for the game until then are gone.
Means a lot of people are gonna get their pinkslip, and the talent we did have working on the game will be come even more slim.
 
Leaks like this are extremely destructive to the game, and does nothing to the bolster the player base.
 
Stuff like this is what gets you fired, and your reputation in the game developement market destroyed, and people who do crap like this and get caught will never work another day in the dev side of gaming ever again.
 
He wasn't trying to help people, he was leaking information, being dishonest, vindictive and trying to frame someone else.
 
As I said before, Reddit administration probably did it because he was ban bypassing and spamming accounts after I had repeatedly banned him. And he was leaking NDA'd information.
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Fran, this is one thing I missed. Did NCSoft verify that the info was true when you spoke to them? That was hinted at on reddit, but I haven't been able to follow everything.
 
Edit: And is putting WS on Steam Machines by default really a thing?
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That person in question has now also been banned on reddit, with no explanation that I aware of, and the images of his W2 removed. So I don't know if he was debunked or not.
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I'm not going to elaborate what was told to me except this was said to me in the email.
 
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They didn't put their neck out for the playerbase, they did it to spite the company and leak information.
NCSoft PR that spoke to me was pretty appreciative of my response and support for their interests and reporting this person to them.
 
It doesn't help the player base moral at all, it completely destroys confidence in the game.
It completely destroys potential sales they need to make salary to complete the transition to free to play and make sure the whole damn dev studio doesn't tank it.
 
Now that everyone knows the game is going F2P, people aren't gonna pay for their Subs or credd, they're gonna cancel them, and not buy credd.
Sales are going to TANK these next few months because some jerkass thought he was gonna spite the hell out of the company.
This jackass IS TRYING TO FRAME SOMEONE ELSE FOR THE FALL TOO.
You really think this guy has any respect for anyone or WildStar or NCSoft at all?
 
He doesn't give a damn, he was trying to spite Carbine, and NCSoft, and frame someone else for his downfall.
 
Now that everyone knows that WildStar is going F2P, expected sales and income for the game until then are gone.
Means a lot of people are gonna get their pinkslip, and the talent we did have working on the game will be come even more slim.
 
Leaks like this are extremely destructive to the game, and does nothing to the bolster the player base.
 
Stuff like this is what gets you fired, and your reputation in the game developement market destroyed, and people who do crap like this and get caught will never work another day in the dev side of gaming ever again.
 
He wasn't trying to help people, he was leaking information, being dishonest, vindictive and trying to frame someone else.
 
As I said before, Reddit administration probably did it because he was ban bypassing and spamming accounts after I had repeatedly banned him. And he was leaking NDA'd information.
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Nonsense it doesn't destroy sales, all carbine has to do is give a veteran status to people who bought the game before it went F2P with additional bonuses such as Tera did, this is an easy solution.
Sales were already not increasing, i would argue this if paired with my previous suggestion would bump sales near the actual F2P launch.
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I don't think it will harm sales *that* much, they're already pretty low.  People are hearing F2P and Steam release, and if you grab a box you get the bonus items and later on perhaps Founder status and perks.  I went out and grabbed one today for that reason alone.  I'm leveling a new Dommy Medic right now, and there's a good handful of people in the starting tutorial area with me.
 
Edit:   Lovecraft and I are on the same wavelength.	
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Until Carbine does something, I doubt anyone is buying the game now. It does destroy sales. He was not right to out this info before Carbine had the plan in place and it did hurt the game.
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			Quick suggestion: Carbine should announce some kind of in game reward/special item/mount/whatever for people who sub between now and F2P. That will help recover some of the dropoff from this news.	
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Temporary, it does go out that people would be seeking out the game to buy it now and the sales reports have shown us that the sales are naturally in a decline so again i doubt it's effect is as dramatic as fran would like everyone to believe, especially not to the point it will effect people their jobs, that's just doom and gloom and has no actual link to reality. 
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Temporary, it does go out that people would be seeking out the game to buy it now and the sales reports have shown us that the sales are naturally in a decline so again i doubt it's effect is as dramatic as fran would like everyone to believe, especially not to the point it will effect people their jobs, that's just doom and gloom and has no actual link to reality. 
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Quick suggestion: Carbine should announce some kind of in game reward/special item/mount/whatever for people who sub between now and F2P. That will help recover some of the dropoff from this news.
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I really would like the focus to be on the positive effects on the game, but you posted their personal information saying "Since I'm not a mod, I don't give a crap anymore". You also said you did everything in your power to reveal their identity to Corporate.  
 
I don't think your actions were in the best interest of the game, at all.
 
Again, I'd like this to be positive, but please don't try to paint your actions as noble.
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			Well, Fran, not that my lonely opinion matters, but I think you did the right thing for the most part.	
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You sure about that? I'm not the only one in this conversation right now about whether we should just go with our guts and take off.
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Yeah, well, I'm trying to keep a raid team together, and we've been seeing a great influx of players recently, to the point we've had to split into two teams. No new players means it's harder to recruit when people get tired or quit the game.
 
And yes, I'd be worried about people getting pink slips if the game income drops off even further over the next few months.
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I would caution you against being too hasty. Plenty of folks were convinced that megaservers would kill roleplaying but that didn't happen. Sometimes things are not as bad as they seem in the moment.
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I would caution you against being too hasty. Plenty of folks were convinced that megaservers would kill roleplaying but that didn't happen. Sometimes things are not as bad as they seem in the moment.
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That may be, but that's why I'm still here when everyone else is gone. I didn't think it was fair to assume anything.
 
Now I've got a lot more evidence at hand that allows me to assume quite a bit more. Sometimes, things are a lot worse than they seem in the moment, but this isn't even about the moment. It's about long-term. Truth be told, I've lost faith that this game's handlers are going to be able to pull this off in a way I'll be able to personally stomach.
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Let me explain to you in a simple way how business works, a project gets proposed that project gets approved by accounting then this project gets moved ahead. So this won't effect the actual transition, the numbers  were already dire i don't think sales are going to be effected that much by this. Since it can't really fall much lower, the current promotions would already have created a small bump and as i and others have said an actual set of perks or items would boost sales not hurt it.
 
I doubt anyone is going to lose their job over this, this financial situation has been anticipated and planned. If people were going to lose their job it doesn't happen willy nilly although in the IT sector people can be working on week contracts however seeing carbine is hiring i doubt that personnel costs in the current financial situation is causing them major issues.
 
I can understand your issues with keeping a raid team together, however we have to be reasonable here people buying the game now won't be raid ready any time soon.  ¨People won't suddenly stop playing either, unless they are really opposed to F2P and you would've lost them regardless as the change is happening. 
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Well, Fran, not that my lonely opinion matters, but I think you did the right thing for the most part.
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After reading this thread and the financials, I would like to address the ones of you against BTP/FTP...
 
Do you want this game to die?  Would you rather it die?  The PTP model is just not working in this gaming genre.  WoW and FFXIV are fueled by loyalists. They are the exception to the rule.  Even the Star Wars IP had to be willing to change.  
 
Invite the new FTP/BTP players in, make them feel welcome. Shed the elitist perception of this game.  Don't worry about potential newbs, most of us have played MMOs for years and know how to run dungeons and raids.  Don't worry about XP boosts and such, we understand mechanics.  MMO gaming isn't that difficult, it is about community and people.  
 
This isn't a time to panic or lash out at the bringer of news.  	
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I understand how business works . . .
 
Simply put, I believe there was a good business reason not to release this info yet. A disgruntled employee with a personal agenda placed his disires over the of the company he was employed by, and the community who played the game.
 
The financial situation planned did not include a leak that would cause a high barrier to new players coming to the game. So this was NOT planned except as a contingency. And yes, it is perfectly reasonable for new players tomorrow to be raiding with me in a month. My roster is pretty good for the next month, but I don't know who I'm gonna lose between now and then. Especially if people don't want to stick with a game going F2P.
 
And yeah, some people will suddenly stop playing. People already do, it's the nature of raiding and MMOs, and there WILL be people who stop if they feel the game's future isn't worth investing in anymore.
 
This was a crappy move for someone to take against the game, and his intentions and actions were not good nor noble.
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Totally understand. I actually did leave because I didn't like where the game was headed in October. For what it's worth when it does go freemium it won't cost you anything to come back and give it a shot.
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Based off what this guy said, assuming it's true.
 
"Logins and paperwork aren't very secure here. This will get buried so I don't really mind, plus it doesn't change the info, but it's pretty easy to get the fingers pointed at someone else."
"My job has their heads so far up their asses they will never see this. I was very strategic with what I did and who I got the finger pointed at."
 
Sounds to me like he obtained someone else's W2 sheet, and the exposure of Gross Pay was intentional. Makes it very easy to point fingers with a exact number like that.
Fran is helping this guy out to get the wrong employee fired. Probably someone he doesn't like at work. Good job.	
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Based off what this guy said, assuming it's true.
 
"Logins and paperwork aren't very secure here. This will get buried so I don't really mind, plus it doesn't change the info, but it's pretty easy to get the fingers pointed at someone else."
"My job has their heads so far up their asses they will never see this. I was very strategic with what I did and who I got the finger pointed at."
 
Sounds to me like he obtained someone else's W2 sheet, and the exposure of Gross Pay was intentional. Makes it very easy to point fingers with a exact number like that.
Fran is helping this guy out to get the wrong employee fired. Probably someone he doesn't like at work. Good job.
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No, Fran did the right thing.  NDA leak is serious.  Punishable by law.  The person posting also admitted publicly that they were misdirecting blame.  Fran did exactly what any of us should have done:  Contacted the correct authority, provided proof, and passed the situation along to those who need to handle it.
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No, Fran did the right thing. NDA leak is serious. Punishable by law. The person posting also admitted publicly that they were misdirecting blame. Fran did exactly what any of us should have done: Contacted the correct authority, provided proof, and passed the situation along to those who need to handle it.
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Agreed, however publicly posting the image for everyone to see is not. 
 
I just don't want to see people wrongly being fired due to her rash decisions. 
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Punishable by civil law under the provisions of the agreement or some kind of damages if Carbine can prove that they were harmed by the release, not criminal law. That's an important distinction.
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employee is legitimate it not only is s breach of trust between the company and said employee, but also due to the nature in which this was presented it causes and raises suspicion among all staff potentially involved which will have a heavier morale toll on staff. The only information given is the gross pay and this information could be someone else's w2 and not necessarily the person giving the info which means someone innocent could potentially get the short end of the stick while this cupcake walks. 
 
I can't speak for how ncsoft operates but as a standard in multiple if not all industries NDA agreements are no joke and taken very seriously. What makes this worst is that this coupled with recent events essentially pigeonholes Carbine into something they now have to either figure a way to work through given player impressions that came as a result of this, conform to the leaked info to some degree, for get a degree of backlash of people going "oh well this guy said X" if Carbine were to state it wasn't true. The las at one becomes a communication nightmare because I highly doubt anyone who would be in the know of how they conduct the investigation would reveal details.
 
As others have said this doesn't help player base morale, it chips away or destroys the confidence they have. At least for the existing players it does and that's very unfortunate. The way I see it is that even IF carbine had been discussing it, that doesn't mean it was set in stone in anyway that this leak presents. 
 
Having personally worked on video games and other projects with NDA I cant even count the number of times ideas and names and all kinds of assets and concepts changed. Even if its internal builds that are trying something out or you're seriously exploring an idea that doesn't make it final until the day the product is out the door.
 
 
Part of me is really hoping that its all a fake troll and carbine will come out with a statement to put it to rest.
 
The other part of me that considers that if its real and personally as a professional and a Dev in my own right hopes the right person gets fired, blacklisted from the industry, and is denied every and any opportunity to work whatever job they have again. I would never want to work with that person and believe me there may be a lot of revs out there but word travels friggen fast...
 
Regardless karma is a heavy metal b###h and I hope that fake or real this person gets what they deserve.	
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After reading this thread and the financials, I would like to address the ones of you against BTP/FTP...
 
Do you want this game to die?  Would you rather it die?  The PTP model is just not working in this gaming genre.
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			How can you be against a transistion to F2P with how grim the game future looks. I really don't get this reasoning. 	
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Punishable by civil law under the provisions of the agreement or some kind of damages if Carbine can prove that they were harmed by the release, not criminal law. That's an important distinction.
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 They aren't going to just make the game free until that is ready.
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How can you be against a transistion to F2P with how grim the game future looks. I really don't get this reasoning. 
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You people are so messed up its not even funny. I honestly can't believe what I'm reading here. You are all going against the very idea of what makes free press and anonymous sources so important. Now I know that this person did not go to a reporter or had any expectation of anonymity, but the fact remains that you all think turning over a leaker is a good thing because it helps a corporation. That's beyond backwards to me.
 
If this person is legitimate then they came out to let people know what was happening so that people could make an informed decision about their future with the game. They gave information instead of hiding it away, and you people are ready to crucify them for it. When SOE made the transition on Star Wars Galaxies from what they had to the NGE (completely changing how the game worked) they waited until a few days after they released an expansion to announce it. They made sure to hide the information so they could stills sell copies of the expansion. If this whole thing is true Carbine is doing the same thing with their box sales and special offers now.
Corporations don't have your best interest at heart. They will lie and hide information as much as they can if it makes them more money in the long run. That's why people who come out, people who blow the whistle, are important. But you people would so much rather stick your head in the sand that you are all willing to turn on someone who possibly had a legitimate caring for the community, and you all did it without knowing anything about what is actually happening.
 
Honestly, I'm just ashamed of this spectacle. 
 
 	
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Who is against the transition to F2P?  This is about leaking it when it's not going to be ready for some time.  They don't snap their fingers, and it happens.  There is a fair amount of effort required to make it happen.  The cash shop has be designed, implemented, and tested.  They aren't going to just make the game free until that is ready.
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If its even the most standard and bare minimum employee agreement and NDA agreement. The moment that they broke that NDA not just to an individual but to the public consisting of 2 or more people outside the primary entity of carbine studios and ncsoft they, in turn spreading information that can potentially cause cause ANY player not to purchase a copy of wildstar digitally or physically they caused damage to the company. 
 
To top this said person also admits that they willfully and knowingly conducted their actions with the malicious intent to have someone else take blame and potentially be fired. This action potentially damages the victims income and harms the company byhwving the targeted person potentially pulled away from conducting their duties.
 
Evidence given and can be used as static fact and value are the reddit pages, the outlets reporting on the subject, number of readers and or responders if information available and statement from existing and potential customers. And yes these can be used in a court
 
 
This also enters criminal charges by publicly displaying confidential and private information of another person with malicious intent...
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The NDA would be something like you agree not to disclose this info, and if you do we can seek damages, fire you, remove you from the beta, whatever.
 
Edit: I'm not saying the guy isn't a jerk for trying to get someone else in trouble. That's never alright. I'm saying that breaking the NDA is not a criminal offense. You aren't going to have the police at your door solely because you broke an NDA.
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Argh this damn forum...eats me post grrrr
 
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Seeking damages for lost business is not a criminal matter. Maliciously harming someone else, yeah. But again not NDA.
The NDA would be something like you agree not to disclose this info, and if you do we can seek damages, fire you, remove you from the beta, whatever.
Edit: I'm not saying the guy isn't a jerk for trying to get someone else in trouble. That's never alright. I'm saying that breaking the NDA is not a criminal offense. You aren't going to have the police at your door solely because you broke an NDA.
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Argh this damn forum...eats me post grrrr
 
I am aware of how NDAs are structured and work as I sign off on them frequently.
I'm referring to the situation as a whole. Not solely the NDA.
 
The latter act of the person intentionally trying to get someone else fired and revealing their information not of their consent is however criminal. If it is someone else's w2.
 
I have not said I am against a model change. In fact in this thread and many others I've said multiple times that as long as the game is enjoyable I will continue to play.mwhat I am against is some cupcake making things far far more worst for players,company, and potentially the targeted individual then a thought out OFFICIAL statement would.
 
As I said the proposed model information leaked doesn't mean it was set in stone and absolute. I
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I would just like to enter my 2 cents into this conversation. I am a new Wildstar player, level 25 stalker on Entity. Obviously I haven't been playing that long, but so far I love this game and I *WILL* be subscribing. Whether that's through grinding CREDD or my own hard-earned money, it will be done.
 
I can't stand the F2P "false walls" or "hey alternate subscription if you want" systems, because I feel that they just go to divide population, as well as locking up things that you need to progress. (bank, bags, char slots, list goes on)
 
When I finished reading this whole topic, I could only think of one thing to reply with. It goes a little something like: "Why would Wildstar change their subscription, when The Grandaddy of Them All (WoW) copied their sub system? Maybe they would add the "veteran" system like WoW has? Maybe they are about to push the free trial hard? 
 
Either way, you can say population, f2p, b2p, sub or whatever you want in favor of any model change. 
 
What I say is; Wildstar is worth my buying the game, and the 15 bucks a month to play. I haven't been so engrossed in any MMO since TBC world of warcraft. I've tried them all, and now that I tried WS they all suck. 
 
Thank you Carbine/NCSoft, and I hope that you stick to your guns because you deserve to grow as a P2P game. P2P and gaining subscribers takes Solidarity with your vision. FFXI is making a lot of it's subs on nostalgia alone. Wildstar is a brand new IP, but it's the most fleshed out brand new IP in the MMO crowd since world of warcraft imo. Trust your brand guys.	
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			Also my apologies for messy typos and such. Never had to type on a touch screen before...least niot that much anyway lol	
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I would just like to enter my 2 cents into this conversation. I am a new Wildstar player, level 25 stalker on Entity. Obviously I haven't been playing that long, but so far I love this game and I *WILL* be subscribing. Whether that's through grinding CREDD or my own hard-earned money, it will be done.
 
I can't stand the F2P "false walls" or "hey alternate subscription if you want" systems, because I feel that they just go to divide population, as well as locking up things that you need to progress. (bank, bags, char slots, list goes on)
 
When I finished reading this whole topic, I could only think of one thing to reply with. It goes a little something like: "Why would Wildstar change their subscription, when The Grandaddy of Them All (WoW) copied their sub system? Maybe they would add the "veteran" system like WoW has? Maybe they are about to push the free trial hard? 
 
Either way, you can say population, f2p, b2p, sub or whatever you want in favor of any model change. 
 
What I say is; Wildstar is worth my buying the game, and the 15 bucks a month to play. I haven't been so engrossed in any MMO since TBC world of warcraft. I've tried them all, and now that I tried WS they all suck. 
 
Thank you Carbine/NCSoft, and I hope that you stick to your guns because you deserve to grow as a P2P game. P2P and gaining subscribers takes Solidarity with your vision. FFXI is making a lot of it's subs on nostalgia alone. Wildstar is a brand new IP, but it's the most fleshed out brand new IP in the MMO crowd since world of warcraft imo. Trust your brand guys.
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			If it's true, then I'm glad someone at Carbine finally took responsibility to tell us what's going on.  I remember back at launch when devs were all, "hey guys, whatever happens we'll always be straight with you."  Now it's radio silence.  Shame to throw away all that trust they built up, but that's what's happening.	
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You people are so messed up its not even funny. I honestly can't believe what I'm reading here. You are all going against the very idea of what makes free press and anonymous sources so important. Now I know that this person did not go to a reporter or had any expectation of anonymity, but the fact remains that you all think turning over a leaker is a good thing because it helps a corporation. That's beyond backwards to me.
 
If this person is legitimate then they came out to let people know what was happening so that people could make an informed decision about their future with the game. They gave information instead of hiding it away, and you people are ready to crucify them for it. When SOE made the transition on Star Wars Galaxies from what they had to the NGE (completely changing how the game worked) they waited until a few days after they released an expansion to announce it. They made sure to hide the information so they could stills sell copies of the expansion. If this whole thing is true Carbine is doing the same thing with their box sales and special offers now.
Corporations don't have your best interest at heart. They will lie and hide information as much as they can if it makes them more money in the long run. That's why people who come out, people who blow the whistle, are important. But you people would so much rather stick your head in the sand that you are all willing to turn on someone who possibly had a legitimate caring for the community, and you all did it without knowing anything about what is actually happening.
 
Honestly, I'm just ashamed of this spectacle. 
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			I do have a concern, is our personal information (or hey, what about our characters in game) in any sort of danger? We put a lot of trust in Carbine (or hey this person could be employed by just NC, given the address provided) and if one of it's employees can sink to doing this to a fellow  employee... well...	
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I do have a concern, is our personal information (or hey, what about our characters in game) in any sort of danger? We put a lot of trust in Carbine (or hey this person could be employed by just NC, given the address provided) and if one of it's employees can sink to doing this to a fellow employee... well...
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			If the game doesn't change it's payment model we won't be speaking of wildstar as a supported game anymore in about a year.	
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If the game doesn't change it's payment model we won't be speaking of wildstar as a supported game anymore in about a year.
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If the game doesn't change it's payment model we won't be speaking of wildstar as a supported game anymore in about a year.
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Is that still aimed at me?
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-.o
Ooooookay...........*ahem*
 
While I can't give you a solid 100% answer it is highly doubtful you need to be worried to that extent. You are protected by many policies and laws against such an act against your personal information. If a breach of that kind were conducted you'd be informed(when Is a different issue) and appropriate actions would be taken to mitigate and or compensate potential damage.
 
In regard to your characters unless said person wiped EVERYTHING including archived points of data your characters should not be harmed either.
 
I understand you are worried, but you don't need to be that worried hehe
 
Edit: I believe someone like cougar or Mr smiley could better answer that...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Thanks for the answer. I don't mean to sound so far-reaching but we don't know what department this peron worked in or how much player data they have access too, and when someones integrity come into question who could have access to my bank account, I get a little worried. It sounds a little out there I know but I live on a tight budget lol.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Thanks for the answer. I don't mean to sound so far-reaching but we don't know what department this peron worked in or how much player data they have access too, and when someones integrity come into question who could have access to my bank account, I get a little worried. It sounds a little out there I know but I live on a tight budget lol.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Thanks for the answer. I don't mean to sound so far-reaching but we don't know what department this peron worked in or how much player data they have access too, and when someones integrity come into question who could have access to my bank account, I get a little worried. It sounds a little out there I know but I live on a tight budget lol.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Also, just so you know, this is a video game. This is not the Pentagon, or any sort of issue involving people's lives or privacy or freedom. Take your whistleblower speech to /r/politics, because this is just someone who is somehow SALTY at NCSoft/Carbine/Wildstar. They said they don't play the game.... They care about me? They don't even know me from the insects they crush on their way to work. 
 
I do play the game and I like to play it, so I'll keep on paying my sub fee and I might even buy a copy for my buddy because the game IS JUST WORTH THE MONEY. A lot of games these days aren't worth the 5 dollar Humble Bundle. It's better than GW2. Elder Scrolls sucks. FFXI is a nostalgia play. Wildstar is new and exciting. It's challenging. It requires your attention. It's my money. I'll use it when/where I want to and I don't need some revenge of the nerds to tell me why I shouldn't.
 
Edit: And since someone felt to direct me to "the financials". I clearly do not give a damn. I like to play video games, not research market health. I have beaten games before and never gone back. I have quit playing certain video games. As long as it's fun *like a challenge*, then I will continue. I have maybe only used this term in my life a handful of times, but it just feels right here.
 
LESS QQ, MORE PEWPEW
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is a little thing that I like to call: Pure Speculation. 
 
Thank you for nothing.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The game is making less the CoH was when it got shut down. That's not speculation, that's simple observation and deduction.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Another observation would be that WildStar has only been out for about a year now.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's a fair point however we are now discussing what the model should include, it's details. They already have mounts and other things tied to box sales, so they are already "nickle and diming" for extra goodies.
There's a reason i keep pointing towards the TSW model, if you subscribe you get currency that you can use to buy content and cosmetics,What doesn't require you to spend anything extra.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The thing is, I didn't have to pay any real money if I wanted those mounts or the costume, they did the smart thing and made them tradeable at least :P  I'm talking about games that don't have a sub option, you have to pay for stuff.  I like the idea of a currency that accumulates with a sub, and/or the stuff from the cash shop being tradeable in game.  I just find it a bit odd that people will whine about a sub and feeling forced to pay appr. $15 a month for full access, but then will turn around and pay a bunch more for that access in a cash shop type deal and be happy because they weren't "forced" to pay the monthly sub.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Likewise, when I pay a sub, I'm ONLY going to be playing that game, as doing otherwise is a waste of money/time.  
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I disagree. It doesn't take very many play hours for the $15/month investment to be plenty worth it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If it's true, then I'm glad someone at Carbine finally took responsibility to tell us what's going on.  I remember back at launch when devs were all, "hey guys, whatever happens we'll always be straight with you."  Now it's radio silence.  Shame to throw away all that trust they built up, but that's what's happening.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Do people like you realize they probably AREN'T aloud to talk, This isn't TRION or anything, Carbine is owned by NCSOFT, if NCsoft says hush boy...they hush
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Then they shouldn't make promises they can't honor.  "We'll always be straight with you unless the boss orders us otherwise, in which case screw y'all." doesn't have the same ring to it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Then they shouldn't make promises they can't honor.  "We'll always be straight with you unless the boss orders us otherwise, in which case screw y'all." doesn't have the same ring to it.
----
			
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2015/05/14/wildstar-reportedly-going-free-to-play-in-august
 
Thought that was rather funny and telling in some ways. I had to read about 30+ comments before I found someone expressing real gratitude and a desire to play F2P Wildstar. Most of the comments are bashing WS (usually on a dated premise), bashing MMOs, or declaring various reasons why they still won't play... including a dislike of F2P.
 
Yeesh.
 
This is a big shitstorm now though. If the conversion isn't true it's just more confusion/anger surrounding WS.  Le sigh.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Welcome to every job ever.
----
			
If I understand it right, the argument from people claiming that the game's revenue stream will take damage from the alleged leak goes like this:
 
If Carbine already has decided to transition to F2P, there's a time window (now) when people will pay money for the game if kept in the dark; if they were informed, they wouldn't buy it because it will soon be available for free.
If they don't buy the game, Carbine doesn't make money off of them by selling them something that they will shortly be able to get for free.
Therefore, it's better for Carbine to keep them in the dark and take the cash.
 
If this is your position, congratulations on accepting a false dichotomy and then using it to justify consumer exploitation.
 
The reality is that it is not a choice between transparency with no sales and obfuscation with full sales. Let the public know that the transition is coming, spell out the terms that will be applied, and then give them a reason to still stay with--or join--the game during the interim. Give people who start or maintain an active subscription through the transition some sort of a credit/discount at the cash shop and/or some shinies for doing so, explicitly as an incentive for staying with the game through the transition.
 
Then you have informed consumers who are there because they want to be there and who have a reason to stay, rather than a bunch of soon-to-be ex-consumers who are there because you've kept them in the dark and are about to have a reason to leave.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2015/05/14/wildstar-reportedly-going-free-to-play-in-august
 
Thought that was rather funny and telling in some ways. I had to read about 30+ comments before I found someone expressing real gratitude and a desire to play F2P Wildstar. Most of the comments are bashing WS (usually on a dated premise), bashing MMOs, or declaring various reasons why they still won't play... including a dislike of F2P.
 
Yeesh.
 
This is a big shitstorm now though. If the conversion isn't true it's just more confusion/anger surrounding WS.  Le sigh.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2015/05/14/wildstar-reportedly-going-free-to-play-in-august
 
Thought that was rather funny and telling in some ways. I had to read about 30+ comments before I found someone expressing real gratitude and a desire to play F2P Wildstar. Most of the comments are bashing WS (usually on a dated premise), bashing MMOs, or declaring various reasons why they still won't play... including a dislike of F2P.
 
Yeesh.
 
This is a big shitstorm now though. If the conversion isn't true it's just more confusion/anger surrounding WS.  Le sigh
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Meanwhile after playing a week of XIV again I'm wondering how delusional MMO players are, people will say the nicest things about ffxiv even though it's honestly a mess of convoluted systems, latency issues, and boring scripted fights.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2015/05/14/wildstar-reportedly-going-free-to-play-in-august
 
Thought that was rather funny and telling in some ways. I had to read about 30+ comments before I found someone expressing real gratitude and a desire to play F2P Wildstar. Most of the comments are bashing WS (usually on a dated premise), bashing MMOs, or declaring various reasons why they still won't play... including a dislike of F2P.
 
Yeesh.
 
This is a big shitstorm now though. If the conversion isn't true it's just more confusion/anger surrounding WS.  Le sigh.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
They conveniently forgot to mention the part where the dude posted a W-2 with an incorrect address and allegedly admitted to being prepared to have someone else fired.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
They didn't put their neck out for the playerbase, they did it to spite the company and leak information.
NCSoft PR that spoke to me was pretty appreciative of my response and support for their interests and reporting this person to them.
 
It doesn't help the player base moral at all, it completely destroys confidence in the game.
It completely destroys potential sales they need to make salary to complete the transition to free to play and make sure the whole damn dev studio doesn't tank it.
 
Now that everyone knows the game is going F2P, people aren't gonna pay for their Subs or credd, they're gonna cancel them, and not buy credd.
Sales are going to TANK these next few months because some jerkass thought he was gonna spite the hell out of the company.
This jackass IS TRYING TO FRAME SOMEONE ELSE FOR THE FALL TOO.
You really think this guy has any respect for anyone or WildStar or NCSoft at all?
 
He doesn't give a damn, he was trying to spite Carbine, and NCSoft, and frame someone else for his downfall.
 
Now that everyone knows that WildStar is going F2P, expected sales and income for the game until then are gone.
Means a lot of people are gonna get their pinkslip, and the talent we did have working on the game will be come even more slim.
 
Leaks like this are extremely destructive to the game, and does nothing to the bolster the player base.
 
Stuff like this is what gets you fired, and your reputation in the game developement market destroyed, and people who do crap like this and get caught will never work another day in the dev side of gaming ever again.
 
He wasn't trying to help people, he was leaking information, being dishonest, vindictive and trying to frame someone else.
 
As I said before, Reddit administration probably did it because he was ban bypassing and spamming accounts after I had repeatedly banned him. And he was leaking NDA'd information.
----
			Edit:  Screw it. 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Fixed for you, corrections in red. Since he would have an obvious motive to cast doubt on the ability to identify him by the W2 form after it was publicized by someone else. Which it was.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's actually a very good point.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah, I'm finding it kind of funny how the same people who insist that he's lying about everything are willing to take him at his word in the one place where he has the most obvious incentive to lie.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
He very clearly posted that he'd made sure to point fingers at someone else in the event he was caught.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If he's fake, who is going to get caught?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think you misunderstand their goals. This news is attracting a ton of attention if you haven't noticed from the comments. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm continually let down and embarrassed at the state of gaming press more and more each day.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's the best case scenario:  He's just a resourceful troll.  Nothing else happens, community moves on.  Worst case, he's legit and could cost someone else their job.  It's nothing less than due diligence to make sure that's investigated, IMO.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'd rather play safe than sorry, yas.  If the guy is legit and he's setting another employee up to fail, then something should be done.  Furthermore, if he's legit, he shouldn't be leaking information or posting his W-2 to prove he knows something.  If he's not legit, then whatever, we all got trolled.  I'm not saying he's lying; I'm saying his put-together is suspicious as hell and clearly ill-willed IF he's an actual inside source.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
He sent his W-2 form to Fran to prove he was a Carbine employee. He had been trying to get the mods' attention for a few days, saying that the game was going F2P in August and he kept getting downvoted and banned.  He said he was willing to share proof with the mods that he worked for Carbine, so they would stop banning him. Then when he started his thread, saying he the mods proof, people still didn't believe him - until Fran posted the W-2 form and the email he sent to her, saying he was legit. I don't think he intended for his W-2 form to go public and for reddit to scrutinize it and figure out his salary.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Good thing this game doesn't have any delusional MMO players in it!  ;)
----
			I don't understand why you guys are so set on thinking he is a fraud. If you discredit all the information, you have no hope and no reason to think think things will improve. We can no longer rely on CRB to "fix things" by adding drops and bug fixes. That's been happening for almost a year now and each quarter we see a drop in revenue and player base by approximately 50% each quarter. At that rate Carbine Studies will cease to exist by the end of the year. If you buy the story, you actually have a reason to be excited about the game. There's no harm in wanting to find a reason to hope for a bright future for this game.  	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Meanwhile after playing a week of XIV again I'm wondering how delusional MMO players are, people will say the nicest things about ffxiv even though it's honestly a mess of convoluted systems, latency issues, slow combat, and boring scripted fights on top of lots of grinds. zzzzz.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I don't understand why you guys are so set on thinking he is a fraud. If you discredit all the information, you have no hope and no reason to think think things will improve. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If you buy the story, you actually have a reason to be excited about the game. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 But on the same wavelength (and I really hope you don't disagree) the alleged leaker shouldn't have done any of this in the first place.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I agree that he's a d-canoe for allegedly trying to pin his actions on someone else. I totally disagree that he shouldn't have leaked the F2P conversion.
 
Carbine was planning to rake in any and all sub-cash they could get between now and then hoping we'd be none the wiser. I was going to quit after my month ran out but was thinking about re-upping because I do like the game, even with it's faults. Now I'm going to keep my money in my pocket till this either gets confirmed or debunked.
 
As for the whole "moral high ground" people are trying to take, people do things at work/to their employer they shouldn't all the time. Like taking those post-its, not making a new pot of coffee after taking the last cup, or cutting out of work a few minutes early on a Friday.
 
Are you new to the gaming industry, or any job ever?
 
It's wrong and you shouldn't do it, but it happens and I'm not going to get my panties in a bunch over it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah, I get that.  There were multiple errors here.  He shouldn't have been doing this in the first place and isn't an innocent party in my view.  If he is legit, he's breaking NDA, leaking proprietary information, and conspiring to get someone else fired by his own admission.  I don't know why you're able to overlook that "because Fran posted his W-2."  Should Fran have done that?  Probably not, she should have only sent it to CRB with the intent to have them look into the leak.  But on the same wavelength (and I really hope you don't disagree) the alleged leaker shouldn't have done any of this in the first place.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well, it must be doing something right, considering it's done nothing but flourish since its release.
 
Perhaps the FFXIV players are not the delusional ones.
----
			
 
{| class="blockquote"
That's not true at all. WS is going F2P because it performed poorly as a subscription based game. Whether that guy posting on reddit is/was a real employee or not is completely irrelevant to the fact that WS is still going F2P. So the game will improve, regardless of whether that guy was a fraud or not.
----
			I would rather not a play a game if it can't exist in a form that's enjoyable to me. Simple as that.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I don't understand why you guys are so set on thinking he is a fraud. If you discredit all the information, you have no hope and no reason to think think things will improve. We can no longer rely on CRB to "fix things" by adding drops and bug fixes. That's been happening for almost a year now and each quarter we see a drop in revenue and player base by approximately 50% each quarter. At that rate Carbine Studies will cease to exist by the end of the year. If you buy the story, you actually have a reason to be excited about the game. There's no harm in wanting to find a reason to hope for a bright future for this game.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I would rather not a play a game if it can't exist in a form that's enjoyable to me. Simple as that.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It is doing something right, it's being Final Fantasy.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
Let's play a cute little game called "would you rather." I give two scenarios and you prefer which one you'd like better. Would you rather see more Carbine layoffs and the entire staff re-purposed to work on other games like B&S and never see new WS content again, or would you rather see a cash shop? This is how the world works. 
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Meanwhile after playing a week of XIV again I'm wondering how delusional MMO players are, people will say the nicest things about ffxiv even though it's honestly a mess of convoluted systems, latency issues, slow combat, and boring scripted fights on top of lots of grinds. zzzzz.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It is doing something right, it's being Final Fantasy.
----
			
If you do q2 2014-q1 2015 which is close to a year...Wildstar raked in about 50 million.
 
For reference, that is half as much as RIFT made, and that is another non known IP MMO
 
but anyway, for you guys worrying about f2p model (I know some of you are)
 
I really hope they use RIFTS system without the gear...completely free for all the content that is released with a shop with basically everything on it.
 
I welcome f2p...I bet you that q2 will be higher than q1 due to the box promotion...but not by much, with f2p they could damn well triple those profits in half a quarter.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It is doing something right, it's being Final Fantasy.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Not alleged, since there is a screenshot somewhere in one of those reddit threads of him saying that exactly.  Whether or not he was being truthful doesn't mean he wasn't making the claim.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And you have that choice. When this game goes F2P, no one will force you to play it if you don't want to. Simple as that.
 
PS: I hope you will, but my point remains the same.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Your point being...? Obviously I know that I can quit the game if it goes F2P - I said exactly that. It won't stop me from expressing my negative opinions on the pay model, however.
----
			It's not my job to worry about the game - that's on Carbine and NCSoft. It's my job as a consumer to tell them how I feel about their product and any direction it may or may not take.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It's not my job to worry about the game - that's on Carbine and NCSoft. It's my job as a consumer to tell them how I feel about their product and any direction it may or may not take.
----
			
Wait. Why everybody is complaining about it going b2p/ftp and having a cash shop as it would reduce player experience?
 
If they implement it right, a cash shop can be very doable.
 
See GW2, for example. Everything in that cash shop is vanity, and you don't need to spend a single RL money if you don't want... You just need to grind the gold and convert to the cash shop currency. Yes, takes more time, but still... It's a money sink.
 
Yes, you can technically "buy gold" with the cash shop converting currency, BUT let's be honest, you can buy gold in any game out there with RL money.
 
The only complain I have about that cash shop model is that Arenanet releases more cool stuff for the shop itself than stuff obtainable ingame. Not complaining about accessibility, since I have pretty much everything I want from that shop and I never spent a RL penny, but I mean for more of having a rare item that took effort or luck to obtain ingame.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Wait. Why everybody is complaining about it going b2p/ftp and having a cash shop as it would reduce player experience?
 
If they implement it right, a cash shop can be very doable.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Wait. Why everybody is complaining about it going b2p/ftp and having a cash shop as it would reduce player experience?
 
If they implement it right, a cash shop can be very doable.
 
See GW2, for example. Everything in that cash shop is vanity, and you don't need to spend a single RL money if you don't want... You just need to grind the gold and convert to the cash shop currency. Yes, takes more time, but still... It's a money sink.
 
Yes, you can technically "buy gold" with the cash shop converting currency, BUT let's be honest, you can buy gold in any game out there with RL money.
 
The only complain I have about that cash shop model is that Arenanet releases more cool stuff for the shop itself than stuff obtainable ingame. Not complaining about accessibility, since I have pretty much everything I want from that shop and I never spent a RL penny, but I mean for more of having a rare item that took effort or luck to obtain ingame.
----
			
Well, as long as it doesn't get ridiculous as SWTOR business model... Honestly I don't know how that game still supports itself with such terrible model.
 
{| class="blockquote"
You just answered your own question. People are concered they might NOT do it right, and until we actually know the specific details, all of the hypothetical examples in the world won't solve the concerns.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
See GW2, for example. Everything in that cash shop is vanity, and you don't need to spend a single RL money if you don't want... You just need to grind the gold and convert to the cash shop currency. Yes, takes more time, but still... It's a money sink.
----
			I'm not a big fan of F2P/B2P MMO's.  It's not the game usually as much as it's the usual suspects that start a new F2P post everyday on any number of forums.  It's not that people can't or shouldn't have an opinion, that's totally cool, it's what comes afterward that wares.  Let's face it, after the new system is in we are going to get the "I can't believe they did that in the shop!?!' and "why should I have to pay X$'s to do this, carbine get you heads out of your...". There will also be the those constantly complaining about the lack of new content and issues etc. in one breath but will not contribute to the game's payment system or transaction system to help support it.  I will continue to play and support the game I love as I've done since CBT.  Thanks Carbine for this fantastic world we get to play in.	
----
			
Freemium sounds awesome tbh.
 
1) Give away the game to 50 along with vet shiphands, pbgs, T1 and T2 contracts and daily reps.  Also make housing item limits for F2P same as at launch.
2) $15 sub grants unlimited access to game.
3) Sell Credd packs that can be traded for in game gold through the current Credd broker:
       $5 each for PvP Pass, Dungeon/ Adventure Pass, Raid Pass  (each pass unlocks unlimited access to content of that type for a month)
       $15 Credd for Unlimited Pass (same as Credd works now)
This way people can choose on a monthly basis what type of content they want to do with a bit more control and on the months money is tight they can still derp around with some contracts, dailies and shiphands to grind currency for the Credd passes.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Freemium sounds awesome tbh.
 
1) Give away the game to 50 along with vet shiphands, pbgs, T1 and T2 contracts and daily reps.  Also make housing item limits for F2P same as at launch.
2) $15 sub grants unlimited access to game.
3) Sell Credd packs that can be traded for in game gold through the current Credd broker:
       $5 each for PvP Pass, Dungeon/ Adventure Pass, Raid Pass  (each pass unlocks unlimited access to content of that type for a month)
       $15 Credd for Unlimited Pass (same as Credd works now)
This way people can choose on a monthly basis what type of content they want to do with a bit more control and on the months money is tight they can still derp around with some contracts, dailies and shiphands to grind currency for the Credd passes.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm sorry, but if they locked all the end-game content behind a monthly pay-wall and called the game "free to play" I'd quit in a heartbeat. If people are already bawking at the idea of having to pay to play the game, how would making them pay for the game's selling features solve that issue?
You can't argue that they'd be able to grind for credd to make it free to run that content, because we already have that in place. It's not hard to get from 1-50 in 40 days (10-day free trial and the 30-days you get for buying the game) and have time leftover to run shiphands till you can get a credd. Heck, I haven't had a heavy focus on money and I've already gotten my first this month and I'm on my way to my second.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Except with the freemium model, those people who prefer to grind never have to pay for a thing (no 30 days with the box cost b/c entry is free and unlimited).  Besides the model proposed in the OP on Reddit isn't free to play anyway, it's a hybrid, aka freemium.
 
Like it or not, it's the way gaming is going since the advent of browser games and mobas.  P2P mmos are the brontosauri and T-rexes of the gaming world.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's not the point.  The argument isn't against the change--it's about announcing it too early.  The point is they have to keep the lights on to make such a transition.  The leak will certainly cause some (I'm not saying all) people to cancel and cause others thinking of trying the game (and providing revenue) to wait.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
My hypothesis is that the ones threatening to leave over FTP are part of the problem.   
----
			Most people don't like the F2P model because it's overall intended to milk the players one way or another, obviously for more than the sub(since it's not as reliable as subs) and of course there have to be things only available for $.People that like F2P model tend to like it because it sounds great, FREE! Then after they spend $50 the first month they just say it was free so w/e. I wonder if "F2P done right" just actually means "F2P done in a way where I can personally get away without paying" at times..	
----
			
I think if you guys continue posting the same opinionated responses over and over, you might actually have an effect on the outcome of the business model plan for a company none of you work for.
 
No but really. Post harder.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think if you guys continue posting the same opinionated responses over and over, you might actually have an effect on the outcome of the business model plan for a company none of you work for.
 
No but really. Post harder.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
People that like F2P model tend to like it because it sounds great, FREE! Then after they spend $50 the first month they just say it was free so w/e. I wonder if "F2P done right" just actually means "F2P done in a way where I can personally get away without paying" at times..
----
			Okay. I would be very happy to have a cash shop if I could access the cash items with my current subscription, without having to spend more. I'd actually be willing to pay a higher subscription price. I really hope they put emphasis on the monthly subscription.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Okay. I would be very happy to have a cash shop if I could access the cash items with my current subscription, without having to spend more. I'd actually be willing to pay a higher subscription price. I really hope they put emphasis on the monthly subscription.
----
			
Personally I feel as if a cash shop relying on cosmetic and housing items would be exploitative to fashionistas and housing people. Why is it okay to nickle and dime them and not raiders? Why must all the F2P weight fall on them and not other players?
 
I feel as if a hybrid model like the one Vic has described numerous times is the best and healthiest. One on which F2P players have ads all over the UI. If people want to play for free the that's fine, but have them pull their financial weight on in-game ads.
 
I am also not against pay walls. Personally I am fine with a F2P model as long as the monthly subscription provides no gameplay or content barriers (including cosmetic or housing items).
 
I am not a fashionista or a housing person. But I feel it is unfair to ask them to carry the brunt of the F2P burden.	
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Personally I feel as if a cash shop relying on cosmetic and housing items would be exploitative to fashionistas and housing people. Why is it okay to nickle and dime them and not raiders? Why must all the F2P weight fall on them and not other players?
 
I feel as if a hybrid model like the one Vic has described numerous times is the best and healthiest. One on which F2P players have ads all over the UI. If people want to play for free the that's fine, but have them pull their financial weight on in-game ads.
 
I am also not against pay walls. Personally I am fine with a F2P model as long as the monthly subscription provides no gameplay or content barriers (including cosmetic or housing items).
 
I am not a fashionista or a housing person. But I feel it is unfair to ask them to carry the brunt of the F2P burden.
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I'm a new player. After a few years of playing a completely different genre, I wanted to come back to MMORPGs.
 
I searched specifically for MMORPGs with a subscription, to avoid all the pay-to-win **** that comes with cash shops. I hate everything that comes with the so-called "freemium" label. Usually when I download and start a game with that model there is the constant thought of "how will these guys try to make money off me?". In some games it's obvious, in some it's not. Call me a dinosaur, but I just want to pay for a product and play it, no other bullshit!! Not being tempted to pay WHILE playing or being constantly reminded that such an option even exist!!!
 
I just bought wildstar 2 weeks ago and I love it. I hope that the model doesn't change, even if it's completely not pay-to-win. Why not stick to the same model, and put the game on Steam and advertise it to get more customers?
 
A concerned new player...	
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It's not about targeting a specific group of players, it's due to how we in the west accept cosmetics on our shop more then other types of items, this is rather abundantly clear how quickly "P2W" chants arise the second booster items appear on shops.
 
Also what other items do you propose?
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Rather, it seems that it is about targeting a specific group of players. A group of players that has been deemed okay to target for whatever reason. Which is why I label it as exploitative since it is asking for a specific group to carry the brunt of it instead of making it even across the population.
 
Also, I believe I made it clear as to what items I suggested when I made reference to Vin's suggestion along with abundant ads for f2p along with gated content. The idea behind it is that your subscription fee gives you access to all content and f2p gives you access to limited content and/or ads + loyalty items available through a cash shop.
 
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It's the general consensus that cosmetics are okay. In general all not game influencing items in terms of power and somewhat convenience (although the latter can still provide a point of controversy), this is literally what cosmetics are, also the notion that only type of people are going to buy items is silly looking at how well moba skins sell, so turning this into a Us vs Them is rather childish. 
 
I'll miss that post and go over it later, i do not fully agree with that since how much revenue is gained from a shop i believe new items have to be added to keep the stream going. However i do find that a stipend should award you with some currency to buy said items. F2P shouldn't gate too much in Wildstar especially not at the start the first objective of carbine should be to massively increase its population numbers and reap benefits from all side effects that come with this.
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