149821-vet-fungeons

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			Vet's are a joke its to hard or to easy. there is no learning curve any more make expeditions and adventures fun, People are just getting carried through all the content the devs made 	
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Is it necessary to post the same thread 3 times.....
 
lol
 
Also, this is a side effect of the power creep, as if we have not had enough threads about it already....
Find a group of friends that are lower ilvl and then you will see the phases you want. 
 
I am in DS gear myself, but the definition of a carry is subjective, since our gear far exceeds the specs for vet dungeons, it doesn't exactly make it a carry if the lower geared person is at a decent item level given their situation, runed, and has  at least half a brain to do a rotation that's no carry in my book.  (Even if a guildie or two of mine can push phases faster than intended with me).
 
Next complaint thread please! (I must be tired)	
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			Oh noes! More gear makes me do more deeps... Devs?!	
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			First, why did you have to post this three times? Second, vet dungeons have learning curve for new players. Never heard the tales of them jumping into vet dungeons right after getting to lvl 50 and getting their asses kicked? Obviously, if you have raid gear, you will kill things before you even realize you entered the dungeon. And this will never change, unless they add dungeons with raid level gear requirements. Dunno why you want expeditions and adventures when those are even easier (and tedious). I assume you do the silver quick runs, sadly even full guild runs are like that nowadays. Maybe you should try going for gold medal in your dungeon runs because it makes you do something else than just "kill this as fast as you can" and outgearing the instance won't help you with half of the gold challenges as you need to execute them properly, not just cheese through them with high numbers. Or just buy low ilvl gear and make the instance more challenging for yourself.	
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			The devs probably read this thread and then snorted their cereal milk all over their keyboards in laughter...	
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The devs probably read this thread and then snorted their cereal milk all over their keyboards in laughter...
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			Yep, dungeons have lost what made them great, for the most part. Power Creep + incentivizing speed runs has led to them becoming both an easy grind for the geared, and a big wall for newer players. And no one gets to experience what made them brilliant before. :(	
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I remember when it was extremely unlikely that a pug group would complete a vet dungeon and people were moaning like crazy. At least now the people moaning are saying its too hard and too easy and not just that its too hard.
 
I agree adventures are sadly overlooked by most people.
			
				
	Edited February 23, 2016 by Trickky	
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i think this speaks to where the player base is at.  you have vets that are almost clearing ds or making progression through it, and you have newer players who are just starting out.  there is almost no one in between right now.  this is what i think is happening. so you have either ppl who know what they are doing and can rofl stomp the place or you have less experienced people trying to learn fights.
 
the vets you see who make the content trivial have most likely run the dungeons 100X, so they can do it in their sleep.  newer people just havent had the time put in yet to learn the dungeons.  practice makes perfect.	
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 And no one gets to experience what made them brilliant before. :(
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Never heard the tales of them jumping into vet dungeons right after getting to lvl 50 and getting their asses kicked?
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As I wrote somewhere else on the forum:I find having to run Vet Dungeons in order to keep your raid gear progression going a bad design decision. 
The progression should be: (vet expeditions)-->(vet adventures)--->vet dungeons/wBosses--->Raids.
Although due to the very low droprate on rune mats raiders have to farm dungeons for Glory, kind of breaking the progression curve and running contents not tuned for raid gear.
 
Now, if all 5 party members are in the same category there's no issue about it. But when you have both new and old players you can see all sort of things, such as tanks pulling whole rooms and then ragequit on wipe; or new players that feel carried and have no chance to run the full dungeon.
 
I don't find those speed runs for Glory farming that enjoyable to be honest, so I'd rather see an increased drop rate of rune mats or more Glory awarded in GA/DS. 
Gear downscaling to ilv 70 (or 80) and more incentives to do silver/gold runs would also be nice.	
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This is the point: either dungeons are a speed run for vets, or they are a huge imposing wall for new players. For NO ONE are these acting like they are supposed to: challenging content that is a fun way to spend 30-60 min that helps you practice for more challenging content (raids).
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To be honest, I think your perspective has become skewed as you have progressed into Datascape. For many members in my social/casual guild of hippy housing lovers, dungeons provide an enjoyable challenge - even for those of us who have stepped into GA (which is only a few of us). So, not no one!
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I do have to put in my two cents being one of the "in-betweeners".  I played most of the game solo until level 50 and hadn't set foot in a dungeon since level 12. I got really lucky and found the <Tears for Gear> circle not long after I hit 50 and was not only in a group of fellow "students" but some really cool "teachers" who explained the dungeon mechanics without just carrying me through them. This helped me to do randoms with at least a clue until they became a but less daunting and I started to more skilled. I will say that I do sometimes get lost in them and forget to bring a CC Break on certain bosses but I love running dungeons, they are still a challenge but I have no problem getting through them without too much frustration and with a Silver more often than not.
 
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Also, IMO, you really shouldn't be raiding until you can survive SC final boss consistently. Not because you don't "deserve it", but because you'll have more fun in raids if you are used to the fast paced kind of reacting/anticipation that that fight trains you for.
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			give us those fungeons already!!	
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Also, IMO, you really shouldn't be raiding until you can survive SC final boss consistently. Not because you don't "deserve it", but because you'll have more fun in raids if you are used to the fast paced kind of reacting/anticipation that that fight trains you for.
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Vet Mordechai's lasers require a significant amount of hand-eye coordination and are almost always a one-shot unless your healer is godly and a precog.
 
So far the only things I've seen in raids that requires a higher level of manual dexterity is Earth/Air and probably grappling people in Maelstrom.  Neither of those are as bad or require the frequency of the jumps you have to execute in Mordechai's fight.  Being able to survive that fight will certainly help you in raids but I wouldn't advise people to gate themselves because of it.
 
It does help with first boss in Vet Academy but the incentives for completing that dungeon is barely worth the effort.
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I have to say Mordechai Vet is by far one of the most fun bosses in this game (even for 122 iLvL raiders) - in normal dungeons gear it requires you to play the mechanics nearly perfectly, in 122 gear you need to account for funny bugs on top of that. In our vet-farm grp there is always betting who dies first and I laugh my ass off constantly when I hear the *brzz* sound of the laser or when smbdy. double-taps to die into the lava :D
 
But to be honest, even Avatus doesnt have that amount of "troll-ness" - most of the raid-encounters in DS are very predictable once properly learned, and GA is more like a dungeon nowadays.	
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Yeah, Mordechai is even more fun when you are with a bunch of people you know know the fight, and you can make fun of people who mess it up.
 
It's also one of the least gear dependent fights in the game. I've seen plenty of geared groups wipe on it, yet two people who know the fight can often carry it (three for sure, if one of them is a healer).	
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Yeah, I'd even go on a limb and say Mordechai is the best dungeon boss I've ever done in a MMO. You're fighting inside the a *cupcake* volcano. There's lasers rotating around the arena and golden lava spouting everywhere while you're dealing with a space pirate who has 2 bodies. 
 
How is it possible to not love this fight to death. 
 
Zombiechai hype
			
				
	Edited February 29, 2016 by Razhork	
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