114676-on-f2p-the-possibility-of-page-3

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Not hardly.  More people that don't pay means more people my money has to support.  And for the game to make more money, that means people with money (like me) are going to have to pay more.
 
This is a very simple concept.  More players who play for free do not raise your revenue.  More money raises your revenue.  Therefore, for me to get the value of development for the entire game, someone like me would need to pay enough to cover me and my share of the new free players.
 
With CREDD?  It's a direct, one-to-one transaction.  I will pay 20 dollars for you to play for a month for free, you give me X amount of platinum.  That's a direct benefit to a player for having another player play for free.  A cash shop?  That just means good content gets locked behind the shop so I have to buy it, and for a price that covers the costs of another bunch of players who pay nothing.
 
F2P isn't a silver bullet, money doesn't magically appear because people are in-game.  The only way this scheme makes more money is if more money goes into it from players who pay, and with subscriptions gone, that's going to be a lot more than 15 dollars a month for people who want all the content.
 
I'd rather have the game's entire breadth of content available to me than to have more people running around.  I'll get that with the megaserver implementation.
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You have an Old School thought Process when it comes to F2P. There's likeable and Legitimate F21P models now. Secondly, I'm sure a few Subscriber's bolt during any Sub to F2P transition. The fact is none of those games have had to close up as a direct result of that. Most of the one that are legitimately great games end up getting a financial boon. Subscriber threatening to leave during a F2P transition is not a threat. It's expected. I dunno why people think this scares developers tbh.
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Money also doesnt magically appear when people are not playing the game. You are not obligated to pay more just to cover the F2Pers and not all F2Pers are poor. There are many rich individuals that enjoy F2P games just to show off their epeens. Wildstar's servers operate more or less at the same cost rather its 1/4 full or @ near capacity. Big empty zones is just a waste of resource. The reality is MMOs that switched to F2P have reported to become way more profitable than sticking with P2P low pop.  
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It's not an old-school thought process, it's pure logic.  How exactly do you think an F2P game can generate more money without getting it from the players?  Think about it.  The idea hasn't changed, they've just marketed it to people differently because people forget the entire point behind sending it F2P.  Because it's not F2P, in fact, if it's making more money (which would be the entire point), then it's certainly not free for us to play, it's collectively costing us more as customers.
 
Whether it scares Carbine or not isn't the problem.  The OP of this thread asked for our opinions on F2P or changing the sub model.  And the answer is, "What do I look like, an idiot?  Of course I'm not going to play a game where they end up charging us more to access all the things they developed."  There is absolutely, fundamentally no way on Earth that Wildstar will make more money if people don't put more money into it than it's making right now, quite a bit more to cover the expenses that the people who won't pay anything will rack up in service.  Something will give somewhere, they will make their money back, and it won't be from me because I'm not stupid, I know where that money comes from, and I'm not going to stick around to see all the stuff I won't get unless I pay for it.
 
That's my 2 cents.  If this game goes free to play, they can charge someone else to make up the shortfall.  It wouldn't be me, and I wouldn't be back.  I'd be fundamentally be happier if turning their game into ad space literally meant plastering Coca Cola's label on everything.  At least then I'd know the money wasn't coming from wringing more money out of the paying playerbase to access the things they develop and the services they offer.
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You haven't seen the Model.
Why do you care how other people spend their money on Fluff?
Then don't play. If you do play don't buy anything. We'll happily support you:)
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Okay, go ahead and tell me how the model works that we players aren't somehow putting more money in than now, but Carbine is making more money.
 
And that's exactly what I'm saying.  If this game goes F2P, I will leave.  Period.  It doesn't matter what you or Carbine makes of that, if anything.  You can invite your friends here to try to take part in that scheme.  I will take my money elsewhere.
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In an F2P game, I can walk in, look around, and buy what I want. In most cases, I can go into American Eagle's cellar, kill a ton of rats, and get store credit to fund what I want to buy.
 
In a P2P game, I pay my $15 to walk in, look around, and can get anything I want... after a requisite amount of time killing the rats in the cellar for a different form of store credit. No cash at the drawer, just Rat Credit. So if you have plenty of time to get that Rat Credit, great! If you don't, well, that cash shop in the F2P store next door is looking mighty appealing, ain't it?
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That's not always the best way.  Everyone likes to say EVE is some anomaly in the gaming world, but they've been growing almost continuously growing for a decade and are the sixth most profitable MMORPG in the world as of last year.  And that's a subscription game that started with 50k subs in its first year and only has 500k now.
 
There's a reason some F2P games make more money after dropping their sub models in the first year.  That money comes from somewhere, and if that happens to Wildstar, it's sure as Hell not coming from me, for all the reasons I mentioned.  If someone's going to pay into an epeen because raiding is too hardcore, I'd rather not share my gamespace with him.
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 And on that note, I respectfully ask (and BEG) the mods or devs (someone!!) to LOCK this thread! It has already been said WildStar will never go f2p. So why the hell is this being discussed in the first place? All it has done is bring the same TOXIC behavior seen in those f2p games here to this forum.
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Actually, it's no different than CREDD. There are people who haven't spent a Dime on a sub after the 1st 30 days, but their play time is being supported by the financial decisions of another player via CREDD. The other player that bought Credd also has a Sub. That's 35 bucks from that player.
 
Free To Play comes with Subscriber's benefits that some people will entertain. They may buy from the item shop as well. Factor in many more people than the game has now and use this scenario and boom!
 
/done :)
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Except this game already has CREDD, and both the CREDD buyer and CREDD seller get equal access to all the game's content, which won't happen in your other option.  And, of course, nobody will have full access to the full content if content will be on the item shop.  You've missed the entire point of the F2P model.  Instead of being a direct trade for services, you're instituting a system whereby ALL the people who want "subscriber benefits" will be forced to pay into this "just like CREDD" system instead of doing it voluntarily.  And then the CREDD buyers won't have access to those "subscriber benefits".
 
You have, essentially, set up a system whereby NOBODY gets access to the full content without paying both subscriber benefits and a lot of money to the cash shop, and anyone who doesn't pay that enormous sum of money doesn't get access to the full game.  And you've done that by sacrificing a system where anyone who plays for free has earned it with playtime in a voluntary direct transfer system.  All with the exact same amount of development.
 
And there you go.  That system has removed developed content from the players at a variable level unless you pay a tremendous amount of money and instituted a caste system.  Imagine how much money those players will have to pay to make up the dead weight.
 
F2P isn't F2P, it's just a good way to manipulate players.
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Wait, what?!?
 
What I am reading here is basically people who want their shit for free? Oh, I'm sorry, I meant, you guys want the best items but don't want to spend the time to get them?
 
LMAO seriously? Yeah, I had an idea that that was what f2p really meant, now it's just confirmed that's what it means. Means "We want GREAT items when WE want them and who cares how much WE have to pay as long as it's NOW cause there is no way in hell I am spending TIME to get them!"
 
Sounds like a bunch of spoiled rotten children playing MMO's lately.
 
And on that note, I respectfully ask (and BEG) the mods or devs (someone!!) to LOCK this thread! It has already been said WildStar will never go f2p. So why the hell is this being discussed in the first place? All it has done is bring the same TOXIC behavior seen in those f2p games here to this forum.
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EVE has little to no competitions with it's genre.
 
Unless some business genius at Carbine (which is unlikely) figured a way to make Wildstar's P2P more profitable, the game is gone for good.
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Read the full post. I posted that a bit too soon ha.
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Or if they go the EVE route.  EVE isn't profitable because it has no competition in its genre (how narrow do you want to make their genre?), it's profitable because, after ten years of constant work and good press, it built up.  Which is how previously unknown IPs build.
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I don't know how that changes the basic math.  That's not "oversupporting", that's paying to get the full developed content.  Paying into CREDD isn't paying to get more content, as both CREDD buyer and CREDD seller get full and equal access to the game.  "Subscriber benefits" mean giving one player access to more game than another, essentially taking our "CREDD buyer" in this scenario, and making his situation crippling compared to his subscribed counterparts to force a sub.  I'm sure current CREDD buyers wouldn't appreciate it.
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It might not be in a Separate Genre but it's a very Unique and Niche experience. EVE comparisons to WildStar are ridiculous in general. It does not have the demand for new content that a Fantasy MMORPG has.
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That's why I say your F2P thinking is old school. In new F2P models there are no content restrictions. You just have to work a bit harder because there are certain restriction in trivial areas like bag size or XP gains. You can also earn Subscriber like benefits via a System like CREDD in Newer F2P models. Dude, where have you been? lol
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Or if they go the EVE route.  EVE isn't profitable because it has no competition in its genre (how narrow do you want to make their genre?), it's profitable because, after ten years of constant work and good press, it built up.  Which is how previously unknown IPs build.
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A bit harder?  What exactly are you proposing for these "subscriber benefits"?  Specifically?
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Just google Rift Patron Benefits or SWTOR Subscriber's benefits. I'm going to watch Gotham.
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			Da hell?" Why was Gotham at 8:00? dammit!	
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Name me a few other MMORPGs that has open world sandbox PvP using spacecrafts. If you really enjoy or want to try a MMORPG that has sandbox space warfare? You have little option but to play EVE. If you want a theme park action MMORPG? Wildstar isnt the only option hence some potential players are lost.
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I figured you had no options. :)
 
That's the way it goes.  Your subscriber benefits aren't enough of a separation, you won't make up the monetary difference (that money's coming from someone).  If they are, you've set up a system where your version of CREDD buyers don't have access to the whole game or benefits.  Period.
 
That money comes from somewhere.  What are our CREDD buyers not going to have access to?  Are we going to double their grind times?  Leave them with the old RNG and rune setup?  Restrict their communications?  Give them less access to gear?
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You think that because it's on spaceships, it's not like any other PVP sandbox MMORPG out there?  Is Space-Combat PVP Sandbox MMORPG a genre?
 
It's just an MMORPG, one with a setting that's been done before, with rules that aren't unique.  It also breaks every rule you'd think it should follow; it's sub based, grindy, forces you to work in big groups, et al.
 
People don't like talking about it with games like WoW because EVE isn't, according to MMORPG zeitgeist, supposed to work.  Yet it does.
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Yes but they are Froobs(lol) that would have never tried WildStar and they have money. They could potentially go on to become Raiders and Subscribers. I'm a Subscriber because I Raid. If I'm going to Raid, I don't HAVE to be a Subscriber it is, however, more beneficial than it is, even now for me to be a Subscriber as a Raider. Which isn't a big deal since I subscribed to raid in the 1st place. The only thing that has changed for a Subscriber is more people are playing the game now and  shop for me to waste money on Silly Hats :)
 
P.S. They do have have the option to earn subscriber benefits with play time. You can do it in Rift and TOR using their CREDD like Currencies. CREDD will essentially be the same as it is now. You earn it Cash it in and you're a Subscriber.
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EVE isn't any less of an MMORPG because of its setting and control UI, no more than the differences between Archeage and World of Tanks.  They're all MMORPGs and they all live on very basic principles: time investment: group interactions, persistent worlds, player economies.  EVE's got a lot more in common with Wildstar than some other games we'd call MMORPGs.
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No, by my logic, a horror novel is a horror novel whether it's set in 19th century England or the Ming Dynasty in China.  Sure, the setting is a lot different, the mechanics are a lot different, even the cultures are different, but they live on suspense, mystery, and shock.
 
EVE isn't any less of an MMORPG because of its setting and control UI, no more than the differences between Archeage and World of Tanks.  They're all MMORPGs and they all live on very basic principles: time investment: group interactions, persistent worlds, player economies.  EVE's got a lot more in common with Wildstar than some other games we'd call MMORPGs.
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I think you're very seriously overestimating how many people with money your F2P scheme (not trial, which would be more rational) would attract.  Anyone who hasn't tried Wildstar and does have money didn't refrain from trying it because of the subscription fee.  I've heard the box price used, but never the subscription fee.  And if someone didn't want to pay the sub for it, why would they pay more (to make up your shortfall) to play Wildstar?  Other games?  Maybe, but that's because they can nickel and dime you to death and set up two different classes of players.
 
You still aren't answering the basic question.  You're losing your sub money.  You need to make back more money.  A lot more, if you're estimating the game isn't profitable.  That's why there are so many layers and people saying, "It's free!"  It's not.  Content is being held back, features are being muted, and gameplay is being stretched to make you pay more money.  Some people suffer without, but those people aren't who Carbine would want to attract.  They want people with money to be happy, they want people who don't pay to become people who pay.  Right now, there is zero difference between CREDD and sub players.  As a sub player, honestly, I like CREDD players to be on exactly equal footing.  A player is a player in Wildstar, and he made an exact exchange if he's playing for free, so that the one person who put in the money to pay for him is precisely the one who benefits.  And that price is determined by the players, not the game company, who can force the buyout to be high enough to force out a lot of people who buy into the system with pure gameplay.
 
They'd do better to simply do what we've asked them to do and make the game better.  It's not like the reason people have been leaving was the 15 dollars, the reason people are leaving was the RNG, logistics of attunement, server populations, as they said.  Those things can be fixed, and yes, those players will (and have already said they shall) come back.  AA hasn't been getting positive responses from the players who've left that I keep in touch with.  I have friends already bored with Destiny since the loot cave shut down and they saw the grind before them.
 
Wildstar can remain as a sub model and be very successful.  If it doesn't, I will leave.  There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it, I'm well aware of how economics works and I know where the money comes from.  I play games to play games, not to pit my wallet against someone else's.
 
 
 
No, by my logic, a horror novel is a horror novel whether it's set in 19th century England or the Ming Dynasty in China.  Sure, the setting is a lot different, the mechanics are a lot different, even the cultures are different, but they live on suspense, mystery, and shock.
 
EVE isn't any less of an MMORPG because of its setting and control UI, no more than the differences between Archeage and World of Tanks.  They're all MMORPGs and they all live on very basic principles: time investment: group interactions, persistent worlds, player economies.  EVE's got a lot more in common with Wildstar than some other games we'd call MMORPGs.
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Yes, EVE and Wildstar are MMOs. EVE is a sci-fi MMO. EVE is a sandbox MMO. EVE is the only sandbox sci-fi MMO. Themeparks and sandboxes are as different as Euro games and trivia games. There is a difference, and it is a difference that plays out in market share.
 
You want to play space battleship captain, you're not playing it here. You want to play space Machiavelli, you're not playing it here. You want instanced raiding, you're not playing it there.
 
And let's not also forget EVE is also the pre-eminent sandbox MMO, at least until we see how things sort out with Archeage.
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Nobody is saying EVE is anything less of an MMO. Both AA and EVE is an MMO but they have a different story, world, and gameplay focus. One is a fairy tale setting and the other is sci-friction. A fairy tale and sci fiction novel also share the bascic principles: creativity, enjoyment, time investment. They are both novels but divided into different genres as rightfully so.
 
A sports car and a family car are both vehicles, they both live on very basic principle: convenient. Both has four wheels and an engine, but the feel from driving two vehicles are very different. If someone likes the feeling of adrenaline he will buy a sports car, not a family car k. If someone wants to simulate spaceship warfare they wont play Wildstar, because Wildstar doesnt have it.
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They'd do better to simply do what we've asked them to do and make the game better.  It's not like the reason people have been leaving was the 15 dollars, the reason people are leaving was the RNG, logistics of attunement, server populations, as they said.  Those things can be fixed, and yes, those players will (and have already said they shall) come back.  AA hasn't been getting positive responses from the players who've left that I keep in touch with.  I have friends already bored with Destiny since the loot cave shut down and they saw the grind before them.
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History proves that it works. Also, I'm basing the F2P option on the new and improved Drop 3 version of WildStar. Not the WildStar right now. Of course F2P wouldn't help now. There's no reason to give it a second look.
 
 Also what is the point of canceling your sub when your Benefits as a Subscriber has improved? Why aren't you getting this.
 
Old Free To Play: No Sub Benefits because there is no option to Sub. Ridiculous Shop prices. Cash Trap Mechanics in place for Raiders(ressurection scrolls, items that can Halt progress if not purchased) Low content stream.
 
New Free To Play: Subscriber's Benefits(Faster movement, more daily PVP Battleground or Dungeon charges, less grind ect.), Better shop prices since Subscribers still technically exist, Decent content Stream, no cash traps, Froobs can earn Subscriber benefits time through play time so there are more people playing, more money because Chuas in Maid Outfits look cute so they're selling like hotcakes!(lmfao)
 
As a Subscriber in a Hybrid model your situation improves because now it's incentivized.
 
 
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See above.  How specific do you want to make it?  Either MMORPGs are a genre, or they're not and every MMORPG with different settings is a completely different genre that can only be compared to games exactly like it.  Hence WoW and Wildstar would be apples and oranges solely because one is fantasy and one is sci fi, which we know not to be true.
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The majority of the popular MMORPG news sites has genres filter such as fantasy or sci-fiction for their MMORPGs list. An MMORPG classified as belonging to a genre is the trend moving forward, same goes for F2P. You could be right but you cant change the mind of the majority.
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So we went from here:
 
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That's not always the best way.  Everyone likes to say EVE is some anomaly in the gaming world, but they've been growing almost continuously growing for a decade and are the sixth most profitable MMORPG in the world as of last year.  And that's a subscription game that started with 50k subs in its first year and only has 500k now.
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This is the crux of it for sure. Fix the game where it needs to be fixed, and the subscribers will come.
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What you've missed is:
 
New Free To Play:  You pay a subscription for better shop prices (not like now, where there are NO shop prices), no cash traps (which we already don't have), decent content stream (which we are now complaining about falling to somewhere in the same timeframe, not to mention how much we're getting), F2P people can earn their way to sub benefits (whereas now CREDD players HAVE sub benefits), and if you want your Chua in a maid outfit, if it's in the game, you can get it.  You don't need to buy it.
 
You're throwing money traps all over the place, forcing what are now CREDD players paying straight up game currency in a trade for game time to be counted equally as subscribers, into another pattern that the game masters can control to keep the numbers down.  New F2P doesn't seem any better than old F2P for someone who plays sub games because my money buys me entry and access to everything in Wildstar.  You're lobbying to lock content behind walls I need to unlock with cash even IF I'm still a subscriber.  No thanks, I'll just take my money elsewhere if it happens.
 
Especially since you'd have to change the entire game to layer it, because this game is built on a foundation of every character from every player being on a completely level footing.  I don't want to know what from Drop 3 would be deemed "Cash Shop" material, but I'd like my access to all of it for my subscription.  I'll have Carbine incentivized to keep throwing content into the game, not a store and to keep my subscription buying me a seat at the table, not paying in advance to avoid the pitfalls that shop would already lash us with.  Right now, Carbine wants to make us all happy.  And they may forever chase the will o' the wisp of that cause, but they'll at least chase it.  Right now, they are paid by the player, and they want to make the game fun for as many players as possible, not the richest ones.  Drop 3 and its responses to all the things being said in these forums for the past few months is proof positive that the sub model makes us valued
 
I suppose if you play F2P games, you've come to accept that the things that are locked behind pay walls, stores, et al aren't content you're being kept from.  "I didn't want it anyway", fine, if that's how you'd like to see it.  But that content that's in a store took just as much time to develop, if you paid for a sub then paid for the item, you're going to thank them for reducing the price when your development dollars already funded its development and installation?  Hell, in any other game, that beret they gave us for sabotage would cost you money.  And maybe you didn't want the sabotage beret, but you got it for no more than your sub.  I'm in no mood to play a game where my subscription serves to make buying that item if I want it cheaper on top of my sub.
 
You don't see how they lead you with these models?
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I'm not looking to, I'm telling people that you can learn from EVE and apply it to MMORPGs that don't even have spaceships or clones. :)
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CREDD:
 
In Rift you do the Same thing to earn Sub status with REX as you do in WildStar to get CREDD! CREDD-like currencies do not change in any payment model. You can earn Plat and buy it or Buy it and sell it. How many ways can I say it? It's the exact same way in Wildstar, EVE, Rift, SWTOR. It's bought, earned and sold THE EXACT SAME WAY LOL. Please drop the CREDD portion of this. It's a pointless discussion since they all do the exact same things in all games in which they are present. Getting you 30 days of Subscriber's status.
 
Now for Subscriber:
 
What are you as a Subscriber losing in a Hybrid? NOTHING! YOU ARE GAINING! You are a subscriber. You do not need Boosts or whatever they sell! You're account is already providing those. You also accrue shop currency over time. So you are even provided the oppotunity to buy a Witch hat for your Mechari free of charge!(lol)
 
Shops:
 
You do not need to use the Shop, EVER as a Subscriber! All the Shop is doing is Supplementing the Sub model. It is not replacing the Sub model. It's just another Revenue stream in a Hybrid Model.
 
I bought 1 thing in the shop since Rift went Free To Play(so no I don't see how they lead me:P) and that was a costume. I was Patron Status(Sub). Thus, I didn't need to buy anything to:
Progress
Lessen Grind
Access Specific Content(doesn't apply to Rift)
Kill specific bosses(not a thing in Rift RO2 did this lol)
ect.
 
If I paid for Patron Status via Rex(Rift's CREDD) the same rules applied.
 
 
It doesn't matter if you like the Sub if 10 people are playing.  The more people you have playing, the more revenue you can potentially gain the more content you can put out in a timely fashion. Right now the game is running mostly on 1st month box sells(which were pretty low), subs from 3 months of life and CREDD purchases largely from those at the top of a very small food chain. That's not a lot of resources when Development costs and server maintenance is so high.
 
F2Pis the best option to make more people INTERESTED in playing the game. Isn't that what we are trying to do here? If not. My bad?
 
P.S. I can't believe you took my Chua comment as a serious thing....
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The more I hear you talk about EVE being the only one with spaceships the more I want Wildstar spaceships.
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So we went from here:
 
 
To here:
 
 
The market is a lot more complicated than simply saying 'well if EVE can grow subs...'
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I would most likely quit.
 
Stability has always been an issue for me when games go FTP, that or it becomes PTW.	
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			Does this feel like a republican vs democrat debate to anyone else? AKA lesser of two evils?  (Just trying to lighten the mood a touch)	
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Does this feel like a republican vs democrat debate to anyone else? AKA lesser of two evils?  (Just trying to lighten the mood a touch)
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And no, the idea isn't to make more people play the game.  That does nothing for us, especially not with megaservers coming up and with phasing being present.
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CREDD:
 
In Rift you do the Same thing to earn Sub status with REX as you do in WildStar to get CREDD! CREDD-like currencies do not change in any payment model. You can earn Plat and buy it or Buy it and sell it. How many ways can I say it? It's the exact same way in Wildstar, EVE, Rift, SWTOR. It's bought, earned and sold THE EXACT SAME WAY LOL. Please drop the CREDD portion of this. It's a pointless discussion since they all do the exact same things in all games in which they are present. Getting you 30 days of Subscriber's status.
 
Now for Subscriber:
 
What are you as a Subscriber losing in a Hybrid? NOTHING! YOU ARE GAINING! You are a subscriber. You do not need Boosts or whatever they sell! You're account is already providing those. You also accrue shop currency over time. So you are even provided the oppotunity to buy a Witch hat for your Mechari free of charge!(lol)
 
Shops:
 
You do not need to use the Shop, EVER as a Subscriber! All the Shop is doing is Supplementing the Sub model. It is not replacing the Sub model. It's just another Revenue stream in a Hybrid Model.
 
I bought 1 thing in the shop since Rift went Free To Play(so no I don't see how they lead me:P) and that was a costume. I was Patron Status(Sub). Thus, I didn't need to buy anything to:
Progress
Lessen Grind
Access Specific Content(doesn't apply to Rift)
Kill specific bosses(not a thing in Rift RO2 did this lol)
ect.
 
If I paid for Patron Status via Rex(Rift's CREDD) the same rules applied.
 
 
It doesn't matter if you like the Sub if 10 people are playing.  The more people you have playing, the more revenue you can potentially gain the more content you can put out in a timely fashion. Right now the game is running mostly on 1st month box sells(which were pretty low), subs from 3 months of life and CREDD purchases largely from those at the top of a very small food chain. That's not a lot of resources when Development costs and server maintenance is so high.
 
F2Pis the best option to make more people INTERESTED in playing the game. Isn't that what we are trying to do here? If not. My bad?
 
P.S. I can't believe you took my Chua comment as a serious thing....
 
 
Edit: if Content Stream is a worry of yours see this post: https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/114676-on-f2p-the-possibility-of/page-7&do=findComment&comment=1193764
 
Nothing has to change if the model is done correctly.
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Also if, CREDD is so successful then why are they merging servers?
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Uh. Well.  See, this discussion is based on the premise that Wildstar is unlikely to survive past the one year mark if the player numbers -- and thus revenue -- stay where they are. 
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[citation needed]
 
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[citation needed]
 
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Now lets make an assumption
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Oh come on, i dont think you need a citation in order to believe WS right now has a critically low population. 
 
I can see you are a staunch supporter of this game, and so am I. I'm just facing reality while you are trying to avoid it. If this game doesn't pick up any steam after drop 3 hits, this game will probably be F2P or B2P. I would personally rather it be B2P as that's the lesser of two evils.
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Sorry but unless you are inside Carbine I don't really put any trust in your assumptions, random internet person I do not know.   
 
I see no reason to armchair economist and spam these forums with doom, gloom and F2P, when no one has a clue about the financial situation of Wildstar.
 
If you think Carbine is in trouble, spend your time at work instead of the forum, and use the money to buy CREDD to support Carbine. Unless you want them to fail, which is the sense I get from a lot of posts here.
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If the games goes F2P... I would have to see what kind of perks the Pay to Win crowd gets.
 
If it's mostly cosmetic or non-essential gear (for example a starter set of blues once you hit max level or, down the line, a set of gear 2-3 tiers behind current content so you're not completely useless) then I wouldn't have a problem with it.
 
If it's relevant or current content (even one tier behind current content down the line), or currency or even crafting material access by buying bundles of items, I would probably begin to distance myself away from the game.
 
I think F2P is a good alternative for the games that can't sustained a sub model, AS LONG AS IT'S DONE WITHIN REASON.  If you can just keep dishing out money to get things handed to you and you're not required to play the majority of the game as long as you keep buying things, then I'm out.
 
 	
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Some people have proactive behaviors. History helps us understand the present and plan for the future. The business methods committed by NCsoft suggest Wildstar wouldn't surivive with anything less than 100k players.
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Yes I do.
 
I do not know Carbine's operational costs.
I do not know Carbine's development costs.
I do not know the number of players.
I do not know when the game is expected to pull in profit. Is the return on investment planned for 1 year, 3 years, 5 years or 10 years?
I do not know the profitability thresholds nor the time frames involved in NCSOFT deciding on the future of Wildstar.
 
This means I can make no judgement whatsoever to the effect the the population is "critically low". And neither can you.
 
For all I know, Wildstar could survive just fine with 20k players. Or 10k. Or 1k.
 
All this doom, gloom and F2P is only having one effect - reinforcing the perception that the game is a burning train wreck, while I log in every day and have a great time. 
 
If you are a staunch supported of Wildstar, stop spreading FUD, enjoy the game and buy CREDD.
 
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This game could easly go with F2P and don't be P2W. 
 
You could do it like this:
 
F2P players cannot have house (cannot enter), hoverboard and don't have access to boost potions. 
 
P2P players have all above plus some bonus to EXP, reputation etc. like 5% and maybe bigger elder gem cap and free portal to every major camps (like Tera have, very good thing, even if You don't need anything else from P2P account, it is still worthy having it).
 
They could also keep CREDD, so F2P players could buy it.
 
Plus some item shop selling stuff for housing, costumes etc.
 
<Problem solved>	
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Ok, can you give me some kind of reference to these "business methods comitted by NCSoft", or do you expect me to trust you (random internet person I do not know)?
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Ofc i dont know any of the information pertaining to their costs, operating costs, etc...i don't work there. If I was, I would be have been raising hell there until management fires me for misconduct. That does not mean I can't have an educated guess on the state of the game.
 
I can think for myself based on past and current experiences. To try to illustrate my point as an example. If Starbucks were to start closing stores left and right....would you not think that they were in trouble? I would surely not need to have insider information to form a pretty accurate conjecture about it. 
 
There must be some huge discrepancy on how you are experiencing the game vs I and others who agree with my point of view....which does happen to be more than players who believe what you believe. No, I did not make this up. Go ask in Zone chat and you will get the same responses as me. Player population is low. Also forget about PvP....PvP in this game, for all intents and purposes, is dead.
 
I'm not trying to reinforce anything. I'm not spreading FUD, I AM enjoying the game for what it is....but I'm not blind, I'm being objective, and I'm just being realistic about this whole scenario. This is SWTOR all over again. It's defenders adamantly asked for proof.....when the proof was right in front of them.
 
I did buy CREDD once. Honestly, I am actually pretty amazed how people are actually buying so much of it. Last time I checked, which was today I think, it was only worth about 10p. 20 bucks for 10p is a ripoff. With how easily plat is acquired in game...20p would be the minimum I would sell my CREDD for if I buy it again.....and no, I don't want to give out handouts to Carbine when, imo, they will be going B2P or F2P in the future. If you were to tell me that giving Carbine a handout will avoid them going B2P/F2P then yah, I would give it. My 20 bucks, nor yours, won't change their fate. 
 
Speaking of CREDD , this one was one of their most intelligent decisions. It essentially works as a force multiplier for their pockets. I hypothesize that if it wasn't for CREDD, F2P/B2P would have already been announced.
 
SWTOR sold about 2 million at launch and went F2P hybrid in a year. 
Wildstar sold about 500k (rough estimate by Maytree in one of his threads based on NCsofts quarterly earnings)......how long until it goes F2P/B2P? Unless a miracle happens and drop 3 brings back at least half of those who left. My guess would be sooner than SWTOR did....specially since 3-4 months into live and population is already so low. My educated guess, if they don't announce it when Drop 3 hits. They will announce it in Drop 4 which would land in about the 6th-7th month time period. If that doesn't happen, PM me and I will gladly open a thread on how I was wrong about the whole thing. 
 
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			... and carry a towel. ;)	
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Ok, can you give me some kind of reference to these "business methods comitted by NCSoft", or do you expect me to trust you (random internet person I do not know)?
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- NCsoft launched 13 MMORPGs from 2003 to 2014 in NA of which 7 of them was shut down (over 50% closure rate)
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- NCsoft launched 13 MMORPGs from 2003 to 2014 in NA of which 7 of them was shut down (over 50% closure rate)
 
- Auto Assault lasted only 16 months before closure due to a lack of subscribers
 
- On sept 2008 NC West president stated in an interview that Tabula Rasa is a triple-A and is here to stay, even with a lack of subscribers. 5 months later Tabula Rasa shutted down
 
- Tabula Rasa lasted only 15 months before closure due to Richard Garriott's departure from NCsoft
 
- Richard Garriott sued NCsoft for his termination from the company. He claimed NCsoft forced him out by forging his resignation announcement, which he later won the ruling twice
 
- All previous P2P title such as Lineage 2, City of Heroes, and Aion were converted to F2P
 
- City of Heroes announced its sudden closure with paragon studio (dev team) being liquidated. The announcement came as a shock in the MMORPG industry since City of Heroes was doing well finacially, and its a seven years veteran MMORPG which developed a very loyal fan base
 
- City of Heroes closure leads to the kickstart of City of Titan, an MMORPG under developement by City of Heroes fans (see how much they loved City of Heroes and NCsoft doesnt give a shit?) 
 
- Wildstar is the only P2P MMORPG left standing under NCsoft
 
 
 
Source:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCSOFT
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/09/11/massively-speaking-episode-215-red-sunset/
http://massively.joystiq.com/2008/09/24/tabula-rasa-is-triple-a-and-here-to-stay-says-nc-west-president/
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And precisely zero of those had the budget that WildStar had. Business 101 - you do not flush good money down the toilet. You spend more to save it.
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Now this is what I am talking about.
 
It does appear that NCSoft has a very questionable handling of its MMOs in the past. This actually makes me more worried because they have proven that they will do drastic changes for no apparent reason. Wildstar could be a in a good place a few months after drop 3 and still get cancelled (or worse).
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The fixing the game needs is a full-on Yoshi-P style rebuild.
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If it's not 15 dollars a month good during a free trial, then that person is nothing but dead weight.
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When you're not paying for content, you are the content.  F2P works because it pulls in a viable population.  A couple months ago there was an EA investor call or report that stated TOR had roughly 1 million unique logins per month.  F2P works because the whales (5-10%) and dolphins (20%?) spend enough to provide at least satisfactory profit.  Psychology studies have shown that whales need somebody to show off to, preferably somebody without the means to acquire a copy of their shiny.
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Carbine misjudged how popular their vision of #hardcore was going to be.  IMO the game really does need a serious rethink.  From a casual perspective a big glaring issue is the utter lack of alternative levelling zones and how unrewarding non-questing is.
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I'm pretty casual in my WildStar play, and my post history demonstrates my ire towards the lack of leveling path options pretty clearly. XD So yeah, I get that grump. But casual content is something that can be added. I'm not convinced it requires a complete XIV-level take-down of the game.
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			I don't see any reason to go free-to-play. CREDD is cheap enough to afford in-game and makes Carbine/NCSoft more money than a subscription.	
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Well this sure got bad fast.
 
Last few pages are now just people trying to sound like they know how the industry / development / NCSoft works with little fights in between.	
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Business 101 - you do not flush good money down the toilet. You spend more to save it. 
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It's just as likely that they wouldn't devote the same level effort to create those awesome outfits without the profit incentive.  Yes they'd make some, but they'd make more.  The problem is when all cosmetics are cash-shop exclusive.
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