112592-rolling-on-loot-you-dont-need

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 This is happening a tad too much these days.... can we get a hot fix on this?
 
 Also the Moderator changed the title from "trolls stealing loot" to "rolling on loot you don't need".... i'm not sure there is much of a difference there, but I guess using the correct wording is important, go figure.	
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Yeah ... I think you need to post more details regarding your concern.  End game?  PvE? PvP? Questing?
 
Right now everyone gets loot for an open world kill.  In group situations you have to deal with the "voting" system.  Choose need if you want the item and bear with the RNG.  Choose greed for the item and bear with the RNG if you wish.
 
I don't see how anyone actually "trolls" to steal loot?
 
Again, please give details on what you are experiencing?	
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Yeah ... I think you need to post more details regarding your concern.  End game?  PvE? PvP? Questing?
 
Right now everyone gets loot for an open world kill.  In group situations you have to deal with the "voting" system.  Choose need if you want the item and bear with the RNG.  Choose greed for the item and bear with the RNG if you wish.
 
I don't see how anyone actually "trolls" to steal loot?
 
Again, please give details on what you are experiencing?
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			This is a standard problem in MMORPGS as far as loot and the "RNG" system of acquiring such via the "greed" rule.  It really has nothing to do with "trolls" per se.  Just "greedy" people.  Actually, it is not only an MMORPG problem but an extension of our fallen human natures. ;)	
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This is a standard problem in MMORPGS as far as loot and the "RNG" system of acquiring such via the "greed" rule.  It really has nothing to do with "trolls" per se.  Just "greedy" people.  Actually, it is not only an MMORPG problem but an extension of our fallen human natures. ;)
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I have changed the title of this thread to better represent the issue, as it's not a bug nor is it people 'stealing' since everyone has the ability to roll, it's just RNG. 
 
- Team WildStar 	
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No Fox,
 
I didn't say the "game designers failed" but, how players choose to interact with what the mechanics presents. Again, a common problem for MMORPGS.
 
Could there be a better system? Of course.  Maybe something about giving current class played priority over "just random greed" but, the fact that you ( and others as well as myself ) are experiencing this has to do with ALL OF US and the fact that SOME of us are greedy to the point of messing over others. N'est pas? :P	
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			Totally agree with the change in title Chillia. ;)	
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I have changed the title of this thread to better represent the issue, as it's not a bug nor is it people 'stealing' since everyone has the ability to roll, it's just RNG. 
 
- Team WildStar 
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			We'll, if you ever group up with me, I PASS all the time concerning Gear, except for Elements, then I'll choose Greed. But yeah, there are those players that have to have "all da lootz, yo" :(	
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If you PUG, just need roll on all BOEs and consumables. Be polite and pass/greed BOP. Greed rolling on BOEs/Consumables at this stage in MMOs is just crying out for ninjas.
 
Nobody "needs" a Sign of X more than another person. If everybody needs rolls there is no ninjaing to be had.	
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			I think your issue is really pugging my friend that or welcome to the world of mmo's.  Not really sure what else to say, but if you aren't in a guild, find one with a good group to play with that doesn't roll on random things.  It could be worse trust me lol	
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Ninja looters have been a problem since EQ1 (possibly earlier.)  Good luck fixing that a-hole of a problem. 
 
TL;DR - There are 7 Billion people on the planet.  5 Billion are a-holes. 85% of those play video games.  ;)	
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Some folks might actually have a legitimate use for the secondary gear even if it is not a perfect fit for their current build. 
 
Example I have several shields for different situations (one for IA and anti-CC - one for shield amount, and one for shield regen along with my separate sets for heal spec and DPS spec). 
 
While needing on stuff you absolutely can't use is a big no no, needing on things one might potentially find useful is a bit more grey. sometimes you are just going to lose a roll.	
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Some folks might actually have a legitimate use for the secondary gear even if it is not a perfect fit for their current build. 
 
Example I have several shields for different situations (one for IA and anti-CC - one for shield amount, and one for shield regen along with my separate sets for heal spec and DPS spec). 
 
While needing on stuff you absolutely can't use is a big no no, needing on things one might potentially find useful is a bit more grey. sometimes you are just going to lose a roll.
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			Should've used a personalized loot system.	
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			All loot is hunter loot. 	
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This is happening a tad too much these days.... can we get a hot fix on this?
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Hot fix for... what exactly?
 
 
 
Might as well play a single player game if that was the case. Personal loot is dumb.
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The problem isnt: "omg spellslingers can roll need on an item with stats they dont require that much".The problem is: "omg people are stupid and roll on items they dont need because well, they suck as human beings".Hell it has even rubbed off on me in some way. I've started to always roll need on heavy armor / warrior weapons when im the only heavy armor user / warrior in the group. Because i know damn well that all the other classes / armor types are going to roll need on their items wether they need it or not. "OH A NEED BUTTON, SWEET" is peoples reaction these days. Now we can ask us... why is this? From how i see it the problem is twofold:
The group finder encourages people to use minimal human interaction with other players. You dont build any group spirit or any kind of bond. You just hit the "find group" button, do your job and then leave when the adventure / dungeon is over. Having the group finder be cross-realm is also giving people the freedom to do whatever they want, even if they ninja the best item in the game there are no consequences. If Group finder were only server-wide then you could atleast make a post on the forums or tell the persons guild officer that this guy is a ninja and shouldnt be invited for groups / kicked from the guild.
The nature of gaming has been reduced to a race against time. People play games to get as much as possible done in as little time as possible. An item drops - Instantly press need if possible because if you win and need it, great. If you win and dont need it... oh well no biggie you can sell it for some gold and buy something else. No time to stop and consider that other people might need it and you dont.
This is a problem that arise in every MMORPG there is, and i always think back to the good old vanilla wow days (i do this with a lot of issues).
You had to take your time and find a group yourself, not just press a button. You needed to "LFG Deadmines" or "LF2M Scholomance need healer". This encouraged human interaction and players got attached to eachother and built a bond during a instance run. If an item dropped and you didnt need it, you pressed Greed because you didnt want to accidently take this item from one of your fellow companions that you had now built a bond with. And there was mutual trust that the other player wouldnt need on the item if they didnt need it.
Since you could only find people from your own server you needed to behave yourself. If you ninjaed an item you could be damn sure there would be a post in the "List of known ninjas"-thread on the forum, you would even see your name spammed in faction-city chat so that people would know just how horrible you are.
People actually took their time while playing. I dont know if this doesnt happen in wildstar because of how adventures / dungeons are built. Or because a lack of CC needed for pulls (see "Sheep target X so we only have to fight 2 monsters instead of 3" , not "i disable the first stun so the guy doesnt cast his spell". What i do know is that in vanilla wow people had time to wait a few seconds after something nice dropped and write in chat "Does anyone need this?" / "Can i take it for off-spec?" or even "I see that you need it more so i will pass it for you, also i got the last item so its only fair.".
But to turn the problem around completly i am even going to say; There are too many limitations on when you can need an item... not too few. There are a pair of epic medium gloves that drop in Crimelords of Whitevale that are currently pre-raid best in slot for warriors. But i can only greed roll on it. Making it increadibly hard for me to get them unless i can convince my entire group to pass on it.
Making it so anyone can roll need / greed / pass on anything also add the "fear" that "if i need on something i dont need... maybe the rest of my group will need on something i do need just to make up for it."With the mega server comming its going to be able to call out people who ninja stuff a lot easier. So if Carbine make ninjaing even more possible we can hopefully do man-kind a favour and teach people not to ninja items because its mean, hurtful and might come back to bite you in the end.	
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			I need the cores.	
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Might as well play a single player game if that was the case. Personal loot is dumb.
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			Where the need/greed/pass system goes wrong is relying on the community to actually care for one another. Most gamers now days (MMO wise) are self centered and only care about THEM. It is a far stretch from the days of everquest where people would let the support have the support items. Not saying everyone is like that it is mainly the new gen of MMO players who were never taught how to play an mmo properly and thus treat it like a single player game with other players running around in it.	
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What's dumb is a rolling system that puts players at each others' throats.
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What's dumb is actually that human beings cant *cupcake*ing communicate for 5-10 seconds over an item. Simple example from my days in vanilla wow where anyone could roll on *cupcake*ing anything:
 
Warrior tank: - "Oh nice dps sword, do you need it mr rogue? Or can i take it for my offspec?"
Rogue: - "Yeah i need it if you dont mind."
Warrior tank: - "Ok, never mind then, GZ! :) Lets move on!"
 
Priest has chosen Greed.
Hunter has chosen Greed.
Mage has chosen Greed.
Rogue has chosen Need.
Warrior has chosen Geed.
 
 
But sadly these days of mmorpgs where people actually play MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAMES to interact with an MASSIVE AMOUNT OF PLAYERS while playing their game is over. And what we are left with is this:
 
Warrior has chosen Need.
Rogue has chosen Need.
Priest has chosen Greed.
Hunter has chosen Greed.
Mage has chosen Greed.
 
Warrior tank has won [Awesome dps sword] with a Need roll of 92.
 
Rogue: - "Omg *cupcake*ing ninja i needed that."
Warrior tank: - "Sorry i didnt know that, i rolled on it because i need for offspec."
 
Now its all about sitting alone in your housing plot and click your group finder to run instances while using minimal communication and not give a second thought about what anyone else in the group thinks or wants.
 
As for the people using the argument "Just group with 4 friends and do adventures / dungeons so you wont have to deal with ninjas". If i wanted to play a game with 4 friends and not have to interact with a single other player i would probably play some co-op game with my friends. I play, again, MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAMES to play in a world where i interact with a huge amount of players wether it be to trade, do instances, PvP or just sit and chat.
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			Anyone ever tried only grouping with people they know and trust? 	
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why is this a topic?
people are greedy and dont care about others, so they roll on stuff they can sell or salvage.
 
yes, they took your BiS item just so they could make 5g, thats how evil and slimy people are.
sad but true~	
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why is this a topic?
people are greedy and dont care about others, so they roll on stuff they can sell or salvage.
 
yes, they took your BiS item just so they could make 5g, thats how evil and slimy people are.
sad but true~
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I need the cores.
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i need the cores? lol
sadly, some people actually try to justify with that.
 
i need cores!
so you deprive someone of their BiS drop?
just for a CHANCE at a hybrid core? which you could get just by salvaging something ELSE?
 
the logic... hurts my brain	
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i need the cores? lol
sadly, some people actually try to justify with that.
 
i need cores!
so you deprive someone of their BiS drop?
just for a CHANCE at a hybrid core? which you could get just by salvaging something ELSE?
 
the logic... hurts my brain
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Your participation earns you a 20% chance at the shared loot. That's it. That's all you'll ever be entitled to. If you were entitled to more the game would enforce it, and that's what does happen with armor weights. If someone chooses to give you more of a chance that's nice, but this presumption that other people should and must give you better odds is kinda delusional. You want a higher chance than that you better run with a regular group because 'the rules' in every person's head are different.
 
I just watch looting behavior as the instance goes on. I can totally roll with a 'tough but fair' strategy: I'll roll greed (or pass) right up until I see someone is playing vacuum cleaner and then its unrelenting need clicking until the end of time against that person.	
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			From the responses in this thread i can only assume that the world is going to go under in about 50-100 years. Because if mankind has gone from "oh its only a pixel i might aswell ask if someone needs it before i take it to sell" to "you are only entitled to 20% of the loot in a 5 man party even if all you get is stuff you dont need and someone else takes the stuff you actually need... and then sells it". Then we are going down hard.. and fast.Not sure why this is happening, i dont even know if there is any way to stop it. But i sure hope im dead when this becomes the norm in real life because thats a world i dont want to see.	
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...Is everyone in this thread really new to gr(n)eeding loot?
 
I mean, yeah, it's a dick move but...
 
Aren't we used to this yet?
 
Heh.
 
Maybe I'm just jaded.	
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That's nice.  My days in vanilla WoW and indeed any gear-focused MMO you can name involved people whining about gear being 'stolen' from them just like today.  Personalized loot is the better option.
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What makes you so special that you're more deserving of the loot than them?  At the end of day you're both pulling the same slot machine lever.
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			I donno, I know some species of animal that are plenty more socially tactful than some people I know.	
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			Sadly there are always people around that roll on loot they don't need because they can/because they want a couple of gold to vendor etc.	
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			The problem isn't in Group Finder; Group Finder is a savior to those of us who would rather spend our time playing the game than shouting in Thayd for 2 hours to MAYBE get a group. The problem isn't greed; I almost never run into PUGs who just need everything because they can... almost. The problem is pure ignorance. I've seen a lot of people roll on items for other classes because it had a boost in a particular stat... they don't see that the rest of the stats are garbage for their class, all they see is that green +15 and think "Oh, that's an upgrade!" when they're really doing themselves and the group a great disservice.	
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The problem isn't in Group Finder; Group Finder is a savior to those of us who would rather spend our time playing the game than shouting in Thayd for 2 hours to MAYBE get a group. The problem isn't greed; I almost never run into PUGs who just need everything because they can... almost. The problem is pure ignorance. I've seen a lot of people roll on items for other classes because it had a boost in a particular stat... they don't see that the rest of the stats are garbage for their class, all they see is that green +15 and think "Oh, that's an upgrade!" when they're really doing themselves and the group a great disservice.
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I almost can't stand replying anymore.
 
Why don't you fix the pug problem once and for all and find a good guild? Why do you insist on facing the same problem of looking for a new group to do something every night? Why not solve it permanently? THen there is no need for an automated group finder which IS a problem more than a solution.
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Because standing in Thayd doing nothing, waiting for members, regardless of how good your guild is. We're in Datascape, but that doesn't mean that I don't have trouble finding a tank in off-raid hours. Apparently you're not reading posts just as much as you assume I'm not.
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Then guess what? You do the content right now. If you don't have the proper team - DON'T DO IT. Or if you insist on trying to do group content with randoms, then yes - you deserve to pay whatever price that brings.
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			i roll need on everything i need if i won a roll over an item you needed too well too bad cupcake  :P  :P  :P  :P  :P	
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Social etiquette.  It's what separates humans from simply being animals.
 
If a DPS rolled on tanks stats when a tank needs those stats (assuming not a med DPS) it's a dick move.  The tank has to handle a lot more pressure for the entire adventure/dungeon and more responsibility.  It's just basic courtesy.  
 
If you are both DPSes and he was whining about it, I can see your point.  That's fair game.  But not with the first example.  
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			Oh and megaservers won't do a damned thing to fix any of this, since that's being brought up as a possible solution.	
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			This is less of a mechanics problem and more of an ethics problem. The problem is you really can't enforce ethics to someone who does not have ethics in their value systems which has been grounded into them at a young age. The concept would probably be alien to them, or at least seem stupid.	
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This is less of a mechanics problem and more of an ethics problem. The problem is you really can't enforce ethics to someone who does not have ethics in their value systems which has been grounded into them at a young age. The concept would probably be alien to them, or at least seem stupid.
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It is an ethics issue; but on mmo's it has less to do with peoples actual ethics than their neglect of them when in an anonymous environment.
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Fair enough. I do however think it speaks to someone's personal integrity that they decide to shirk all ethics just because they can get away with it.
 
It's how way too many people act online that makes me think that an inordinate amount of people anymore are lawful evil.  In other words they act decent if there is a threat of punishment and as soon as there isn't they will do whatever they want regardless of how messed up it is.
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O tempora! O mores!
- Cicero
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People have been crying about the decline of virtues and such since the Classical era. This behaviour is nothing new.
 
Like it or not, both utilitarianism [i.e. your "need" rollers who value personal success over helping others] and humanism [the reverse] are valid philosophies. I doubt anyone here will be able to convert one side to another, and it's certainly not within Carbine's power to do so either.
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I never understand why they went with this system. It only makes people angry.
Its the same with farming mobs with random people and the loot gets cut.
Isnt this suppose to be an mmo where people help each other and have FUN?	
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I never understand why they went with this system. It only makes people angry.
Its the same with farming mobs with random people and the loot gets cut.
Isnt this suppose to be an mmo where people help each other and have FUN?
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Fun? In an MMO? What do you take us for? This isn't Mario Party Online!
 
Or Jurassic Park Online. Here's my T-Rex gunslinger... 
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I never understand why they went with this system. It only makes people angry.
Its the same with farming mobs with random people and the loot gets cut.
Isnt this suppose to be an mmo where people help each other and have FUN?
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			Im talking about helping strangers like killing elite mobs and maybe even meet new cool people. Right now everyone is avoiding each other couse farming together only degrades the loot.	
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