137023-my-concers-with-wildstar-atm-page-2

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I dident see a MMO where group content was not present, cant even think about one, but yeah sure the lvling outside of dungeons etc.. is mostly focused for solo play, because otherwhiste you would have to look for player and that is a unthinkable...
 
Than what are you doing here, if you just wanted to try the game out, just play it and if you dont like it leave.
 
Maybe check in again after a few months, if you like it stay and have fun, quit easy.
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My problem is with Carbines player retention and problem solving.
 
 
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			It is true that things will have to be monitored and adjustments made according to data. Changing anything without data is pretty irresponsible.	
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Thats fine, but what is not that guys like (him) cry in the forum to remove group content that MMORPG Players like.
 That is the problem
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actually I stated that there should be an open discussion about this. They have already been adding casual content, such as veteran shiphands, however if you'll nerf dungeons, the only content that I can do, people like me are gone. Meaning, what do we do? 
- do we do different versions of dungeons?
- do we nerf dungeons and implement some other hard content for 5-man?
- do we rename dungeons?
- do we make more easier 5 man instances?
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Since threads like this will pop up now that the game is F2P, lets actually try to get some solutions.
 
What are people finding hard about the dungeons? Interrupts? Healing? Needing a tank? Threat? DPS?
 
What are some solutions to make it more casual friendly?
 
I keep seeing people say the game is still to hard for casual(barely anyone would admit their a casual or what is actually hard... because its not too hard for them).
 
 
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There are a bunch of hardcore players here who desperately want to believe that the reason the game lost so many players back at launch was because of "bugs", and the developers seem to believe the same thing. I don't buy that and never have. The game I played at launch simply wasn't that buggy. DS40 apparently wasn't finished, but the majority of the playerbase still hasn't even gotten into Datascape so somehow I doubt that made many people leave.
 
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You're not going to see me say this often, but I agree with everything Yas just said and it's one of those "wedge issues" that part of the community just freaks out over.
 
Multiple difficulty settings should, honestly, be a no-brainer.
 
Of course, we've already got TWO levels of just about every dungeon as it is ... the normal version and the Vet version. Of course, if you want to try your hand at the normal version at a level other than "recommended" then you get level-lowered (how I loathe level-lowering!) and dropped into the instance with less than your current full potential. Part of the community (let's call them "hardcores" for lack of a better term) think this is working as intended and how it should be.
 
What is needed (wanted?) by the other part of the community (let's call them "casuals", see above) is something in-between those two levels. They want (need?) a full-mechanics-but-less-punishing version of the Vet content in order to be able to learn the content and feel more comfortable doing it.
 
I totally agree with that. "Normal" versions (at level) should be que-able for 2 levels prior and maybe five levels above. After that, you have to wait until 50 to run them for suitable reward. That's when you'd have two choices ... I dunno, let's call them Veteran and Progression level instances. Progression instances would be the EXACT instances we have now. No changes, just as hard and unforgiving as they were meant to be. Then "Vet" becomes the "filler level" with lesser rewards and NO PROGRESSION TOWARD ATTUNEMENT.
 
In other words, you'd be able to run less-daunting versions of the same instances, but you are NOT going to get the high-end dungeon rewards or any kind of Endgame Progression out of them at all. What you will get is lesser rewards (to help prepare you for Progression) and the confidence to approach the harder fights without total freak out.
 
Best of both worlds, if you ask me.	
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Wait so you want to add a middle set of dungeons between the current and the normal? So you want to lfr the dungeons in wildstar basically?
 
As Spythe asked above, what do people have trouble with in the vets? Would things be better if someone took the time to write up detailed guides for people to read through to learn how to handle the fights? Since launch I have never really had any issues. Even in pugs. As long as someone takes charge and explains things and sets up interrupts when need be the runs go pretty smooth. For new players, they will have to learn the boss fights and when to interrupt but that is just the learning process we all went through.
 
I really don't want to see dev time taken away from more content to basically give dumbed down rehashed versions of the same content. Since launch every drop has been focused on making the game more casual friendly. That's great. That means more people. However, I don't want the part that brought me here to be given up in order for that to happen. Challenging dungeons and raids is the only reason to play Wildstar for me. You take that away then I have a worse version of WoW. 	
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No one is asking to TAKE AWAY the challenging content. I know it's easy to infer that, but please stop with that line of thought right now. Adding something between the two IN NO WAY removes the challenge from the progression content.
 
Now having cleared that up, yeah man, Wildstar has *always* been lacking in the Player-Created Walk-through department. I can find dozens of "Stormtalon" videos but how many of them really "hold your hand" and walk the viewer through the process? Not many, if any at all.
 
So, yeah. Documentation. Videos. Encouragement. Patience. Those are the things that will invigorate the community and usher in a Wildstar where even the most challenging content becomes accessible to anyone with a couple hours and even a modicum of skill.	
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Since threads like this will pop up now that the game is F2P, lets actually try to get some solutions.
What are people finding hard about the dungeons? Interrupts? Healing? Needing a tank? Threat? DPS?
What are some solutions to make it more casual friendly?
I keep seeing people say the game is still to hard for casual(barely anyone would admit their a casual or what is actually hard... because its not too hard for them).
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No one is asking to TAKE AWAY the challenging content. I know it's easy to infer that, but please stop with that line of thought right now. Adding something between the two IN NO WAY removes the challenge from the progression content.
 
Now having cleared that up, yeah man, Wildstar has *always* been lacking in the Player-Created Walk-through department. I can find dozens of "Stormtalon" videos but how many of them really "hold your hand" and walk the viewer through the process? Not many, if any at all.
 
So, yeah. Documentation. Videos. Encouragement. Patience. Those are the things that will invigorate the community and usher in a Wildstar where even the most challenging content becomes accessible to anyone with a couple hours and even a modicum of skill.
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Oh heck yeah. I'm with you. I'd rather help someone learn to do something than have mediocre content or (heaven forbid) waste time on content that's truly not needed.
 
Maybe "middle versions" would be a waste of resources, but an even bigger waste would be to see the new F2P community turn it's collective backs on the content and we end up with another exodus out of here because the content is unappealingly difficult. That's where my thoughts lead me, and having already lived through it once, I am not anxious to see history repeat itself.
 
That said, yes to videos! Yes to write-ups and walk-throughs!	
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That said, yes to videos! Yes to write-ups and walk-throughs!
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They will not solve the problem, sorry. There are already videos, write-ups, and walkthroughs and there have been since launch.
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1. Doing dailies is normal for these kinds of games. 
 
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Just because it's normal that doesn't mean it's a good idea lol. People complain about dailies in every game that has them. So why have dailies at all then? Can't people come up with other ideas that players actually enjoy? Dailies make people feel like logging in every day is a job because they have a long "To Do" list of necessary tasks they have to finish before they can get to the fun stuff. Don't make gaming feel like a job.
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			Player made instances with a tool similar to what STO and neverwinter has. unlimited content , created by the player base.	
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Player made instances with a tool similar to what STO and neverwinter has. unlimited content , created by the player base.
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Dangerous idea.  CoH tried this and it was a massive success in a bad way.  Created a lot of stupid easy farming instances that all had to be nerfed and some extremely silly content.
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			That is the fault of the programmers , not the idea. Neverwinter and sto use them and some of the best content in the game are available there.	
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			Going into vet skullcano with pugs not on voice who have never done it before is a lesson in pain. I can understand why new players say it is too hard, but at the same time, I like the difficulty, so /shrug. Not sure how they could address it besides across the board nerfs on mechanic damage	
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The problem isn't that the boss fights have mechanics. Mechanics are a great thing. The problem is that they have mechanics that require optimized latencies, optimized UIs, excellent reflexes, have instant one-shot death as the punishment, and do not exist anywhere else where they can be practiced and mastered until you're making a team full of people sit around and wait for you to get it right this time.
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The final boss in SC is one of the hardest in the game. BUT the only added mechanic from the normal version is having to jump over the smaller laser beams which until Protostar Academy there was nothing like that in the game. Ideally if a new player actually does all the dungeons while leveling and spend the time setting up their UI, all the focus should be on just executing the mechanic.
 
The deal with 1 shot mechanics is without them players will always take the easy route. Which would be just sit and heal the damage.
 
The telegraphs in that room are really bad if you're using the default one, so possibly changing the ground in that room would help.
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Well UI management is an issue. Most players do not want to have to fiddle with UI settings and addons, even veteran MMO gamers. Many just want to hop in and have the default work well enough, with a few easy setting changes to preference. This is how most games work, so having to fiddle a lot to make the UI usable is something many players may not think to do, or may not want to do. So that needs to be considered. Also as for the difficulty, most games start easy and slowly ramp up as players level up, slowly introducing them to harder and harder ideas. This is what most are used to and expect, so to have early encounters be difficult is not what many will expect, and often not what many would even want. I know a lot of players just want to casually enjoy leveling or speed through it, but both will not want to get serious until endgame. So Wildstar does a few things differently that players may not be used to and/or may not quite enjoy.
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			my concers is neverendinglag	
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my concers is neverendinglag
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I think you've got a fair point, and I think the answer is both obvious, implemented in other games, and staunchly opposed by this game's developers.
 
Multiple difficulty levels on content, that increase in both challenge and reward with increasing difficulty.
 
The content can be experienced by both hardcore and casual players, one does not come at the expense of the other.
People can become familiar with the basics of running the content and then step up in difficulty, rather than stepping into unfamiliar content and getting clobbered.
People can choose whether or not they want to face mechanics that require premade groups and voicechat-driven group tactics and coordination.
People aren't stuck relying on overgeared veteran players who have the content on farm and make the rest of the team irrelevant.
Development effort is reduced to redesigns of existing content and adding another option to the UI between "leveling" and "veteran", rather than making an entirely dungeon from scratch.
 
If they'd done this last year at this time, we wouldn't even be having this discussion today.
Instead, they're redesigning systems like crafting to try to shove players into GA when those same players can't even make it through Vet Skullcano without a carry.
 
There are a bunch of hardcore players here who desperately want to believe that the reason the game lost so many players back at launch was because of "bugs", and the developers seem to believe the same thing. I don't buy that and never have. The game I played at launch simply wasn't that buggy. DS40 apparently wasn't finished, but the majority of the playerbase still hasn't even gotten into Datascape so somehow I doubt that made many people leave.
 
The day of reckoning on that argument is imminent, and we'll see how it plays out. If you're serious about not losing challenging content, I suggest you start lobbying for multiple difficulty levels on the dungeons and raids with the first addition being easier than the current implementation, not harder.
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Well UI management is an issue. Most players do not want to have to fiddle with UI settings and addons, even veteran MMO gamers. Many just want to hop in and have the default work well enough, with a few easy setting changes to preference. This is how most games work, so having to fiddle a lot to make the UI usable is something many players may not think to do, or may not want to do. So that needs to be considered. Also as for the difficulty, most games start easy and slowly ramp up as players level up, slowly introducing them to harder and harder ideas. This is what most are used to and expect, so to have early encounters be difficult is not what many will expect, and often not what many would even want. I know a lot of players just want to casually enjoy leveling or speed through it, but both will not want to get serious until endgame. So Wildstar does a few things differently that players may not be used to and/or may not quite enjoy.
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The day of reckoning on that argument is imminent, and we'll see how it plays out. If you're serious about not losing challenging content, I suggest you start lobbying for multiple difficulty levels on the dungeons and raids with the first addition being easier than the current implementation, not harder.
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we have different view points on why the game failed, but I do agree on different difficulty levels. Look at it this way, you rehash content and it's counted as new content! Win win! It's what FF does. 
 
So how about this proposal:
 
we should have 3 difficulty levels for everything veteran:
- normal (no, we're not going to call it easy to please special snowflakes. Normal. Normal for other MMOs. Normal for this MMO too), which would be easier than current dungeons
- hard, at the level of current dungeons
- extreme, harder than the current dungeons for those elite that ran out of challenge. 
 
from there on end, each difficulty level could unlock the same difficulty level and all those below it for GA too
- normal, for your regular pug experience. Face it, nobody would die if the casual audience saw the raid in more of a story mode
- hard, for what we have now
- extreme, for those that are in datascape already and feel like the current GA is a breeze. 
 
and all of this could be counted as separate content! Lots of instances in Wildstar that way :D
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			And so it continues...	
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we have different view points on why the game failed, but I do agree on different difficulty levels. Look at it this way, you rehash content and it's counted as new content! Win win! It's what FF does. 
 
So how about this proposal:
 
we should have 3 difficulty levels for everything veteran:
- normal (no, we're not going to call it easy to please special snowflakes. Normal. Normal for other MMOs. Normal for this MMO too), which would be easier than current dungeons
- hard, at the level of current dungeons
- extreme, harder than the current dungeons for those elite that ran out of challenge. 
 
from there on end, each difficulty level could unlock the same difficulty level and all those below it for GA too
- normal, for your regular pug experience. Face it, nobody would die if the casual audience saw the raid in more of a story mode
- hard, for what we have now
- extreme, for those that are in datascape already and feel like the current GA is a breeze. 
 
and all of this could be counted as separate content! Lots of instances in Wildstar that way :D
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There's still some difficulity left? I was afraid all the nerfs would've made dungeons trivial. :)
 
Really though. Vet's weren't hard at launch (if you didnt pug.) Though dungeons should be pugable... I am now leveling a new char to experience WS 2.0, so i'm looking forward to 50 to see whats up.	
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I took your suggestion seriously. Started a new thread for more visibility:
 
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/137591-suggestion-add-difficulty-levels-to-all-veteran-content/
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So glad Pantheon hits alpha/beta next year. If you guys are going to turn this into WoW ....
 
Left WoW for a reason and now the casuals bring it here.
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I'm sure the general population showed that it doesn't work with "hardcore" advertising when the game dies because of it. They should probably do something different if they're going to reboot. :)
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			If you are crying about dungeons being too hard then keep doing protostar academy normal till you get it. Seriously, everything I'm reading here is bs. They made protostar academy to help newbies learn, if you can't be learned than its not mine, carbine's, or anyone's fault but your own
			
				
	Edited October 5, 2015 by DomxDom	
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Problem with that is, no one can say why the game died. I know people that left for many different reasons. Not a 1 of them was because the game was too hard. I am all for opening up the game. I am all for helping people learn the game. But I am not for making the game into a glorified FB game. Also not into dumbing it down to the point where mechanics no longer matter aka LFR.
 
 
FF does not do this. They have normal modes and the vet modes at cap. They have 24 man (LFR) and 8 man (hard) raids. Where in there is there multiple versions of the same raids?
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			The dungeons are fine the way they are for right now but when Carbine crunches the numbers of concurrent use of the different dungeons and raids, eventually they will take that information and either nerf the dungeons/raids or not. People should stop treating other people like they are stupid just because they can't grasp the content be it inability to comprehend or just lack of motor functions.  This insensitivity toward other players is a herd mentality and most of the people who are unable to understand or complete dungeons are getting discouraged because people neglect to actually try to explain things to them in a way that makes sense to them.  Maybe if you would stop for a moment and take the time to at least copy and paste from an online resource how something works, or at least educate them how to properly use Google if you find that same person is asking too many questions without much trying to look for the answers, we wouldn't have been in a F2P state to begin with.  I am not getting on to the majority of the people who I have met in game who are more than supportive and willing to help, but mostly some of these internet elitists.  I love you guys regardless and understand your frustration, but it's time to stop.Likewise, people who lack the ability to do the content to a reasonable extent shouldn't expect the entire game to cater to them because some people need to understand where their limitations are.  There are literally quadriplegics who raid in WoW and don't let physical limitations stop them from doing amazing things, so please understand that "too hard" is not a good excuse for some. There definitely needs to be a middle ground here and I can guarantee you that with enough data from Carbine, they can make a decision in the end.  I am all for making the game easier if it makes the community stable but they have already made massive difficulty changes since release so at some point, it comes down to whether you really want to do the content, is it something you can learn if you put in the time, or is it legitimately harder than intended?  In the end, Carbine needs the feedback and the forums and Reddit are the BEST place to post that feedback, so the end users should be free to post that things are too difficult without risking being insulted and told to "git gud." I would suggest that if people are really finding the content difficult, they should post what situations are they finding most difficult and if possible, some video of them attempting the content.  The most important part about helping the devs make the game something that is more accessible to folks.  This can also help community members who are legitimately trying to help to post their input to see if they can help you improve your skills if you are lacking in some area. *Edited to correct incorrect use of "there" and update it to "their."*
			
				
	Edited October 5, 2015 by Lethrface	
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I believe there is a big difference between content being hard and content being challenging. I think the content in Wildstar in dungeons and in vet dungeons is definitely challenging. I also believe there is many a player who has lost that sense of " I look forward to overcoming a challenge." I also believe that many players sadly don't want to use voice comms even if they could and don't want to socialize en order to overcome a challenge. Instead they want dungeons to be content that requires little challenge because they are tired from work or life. Instead of looking at the idea of small group content being a gateway to mastering end game content.  That is the point of dungeons in games like Wildstar. Sadly instead many other mmo's don't use dungeons like that any more. Instead dungeons are just filler content. There to just check off a checklist of listed content.  Instead folks rush into a dungeon and think that ooh look at the cute graphics.. and they dont' realize this a pretty deep game. Its not a  pretty face with little behind it.  Yes the dungeons are challenging.. but there are tons of guides available for the content that help you as a player grasp the strats for handling this content. 
 
This is not aimed at saying.. Your a scrub go home. Nope this is saying Do you want a game that is so easy you can just afk and beat the dungeons? There are actually games that have.. Auto battle setup for handling dungeons. Crazy right? Sadly it is true. Whatever class you have chosen.. go out of your way and talk to fellow class players and learn about what makes that class special. There are also addons available to help you with this game too. I don't think the majority of players trying this game out now are new to mmos in general. I have a feeling many are experienced with other mmos. Just don't rush to judge the challenge in this game as being too hard. I remember playing Wow in cata at the beginning and they made dungeons hard.. But sadly they screwed up healing classes early and that's what made the challenge too much and that's what caused cata to fail. This is not the case with Wildstar Reloaded. Healers are in a good spot as are all classes. Vastly better then original launch. Work together and help each other and I guarantee you will clear dungeons in wildstar and have fun.	
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2. The Dungeons are just too hard, sorry to say,, "i dont think they are too hard for my self" but been in like 20 Vet LFG groups , and no one knows what to do, so it failed EVERY time. People will leave because of this.
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I had no problems with difficulity myself. And yes there were several reasons. I love WS, and its difficulity. But i want the game to stay populated as well. It wasn't fun to resub and see dead servers and empty main cities. So i hope WS "survives" this time around.
 
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The main reason I have heard why most people quit was the attunement. It was a tough thing to do in pug groups. Since launch it's been torn apart and made considerably easier. So I don't have any real fears as to keeping people around this time. The server stability will do more harm then the dungeon difficulty imo. 
 
Get some good guides up that people can see to learn them and things should go much smoother for most. But no one will really know these answers for a few weeks when most f2p players start hitting end game
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So people can't have concerns about the game now?  The little echo chamber that you guys had is gone. Thank to F2P, people can give diverse opinions.
 
I played this game as soon as it came out. I quit after 1 month. Everyone here on the forums said "Git Gud" or "Your group sucks". The game had that for a while and then fell so flat on its face. It is sad to see a community of elitism kill a game. So much so, that it had to go F2P or die. 
 
I watched this games forums after I left like once every week. And the same 10 people would post over and over. Now that people are here to bring up valid points again, we get this shit. AGAIN.
 
You guys don't have the end all be all of video games. Any input is good input. This guy isn't bashing the game, he is voicing concern. 
 
Don't dismiss it with "And so, it begins...". Don't comment at all.  
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			The only reason people left was because Wildstar did not bring enough to the table to keep them here. You can come up with what you think was the main reason , but there were so many reasons that it was unsustainable. The subs prove that. Wildstar is nothing special, yet they counted on that very premise.	
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You're not going to see me say this often, but I agree with everything Yas just said and it's one of those "wedge issues" that part of the community just freaks out over.
 
Multiple difficulty settings should, honestly, be a no-brainer.
 
Of course, we've already got TWO levels of just about every dungeon as it is ... the normal version and the Vet version. Of course, if you want to try your hand at the normal version at a level other than "recommended" then you get level-lowered (how I loathe level-lowering!) and dropped into the instance with less than your current full potential. Part of the community (let's call them "hardcores" for lack of a better term) think this is working as intended and how it should be.
 
What is needed (wanted?) by the other part of the community (let's call them "casuals", see above) is something in-between those two levels. They want (need?) a full-mechanics-but-less-punishing version of the Vet content in order to be able to learn the content and feel more comfortable doing it.
 
I totally agree with that. "Normal" versions (at level) should be que-able for 2 levels prior and maybe five levels above. After that, you have to wait until 50 to run them for suitable reward. That's when you'd have two choices ... I dunno, let's call them Veteran and Progression level instances. Progression instances would be the EXACT instances we have now. No changes, just as hard and unforgiving as they were meant to be. Then "Vet" becomes the "filler level" with lesser rewards and NO PROGRESSION TOWARD ATTUNEMENT.
 
In other words, you'd be able to run less-daunting versions of the same instances, but you are NOT going to get the high-end dungeon rewards or any kind of Endgame Progression out of them at all. What you will get is lesser rewards (to help prepare you for Progression) and the confidence to approach the harder fights without total freak out.
 
Best of both worlds, if you ask me.
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The only reason people left was because Wildstar did not bring enough to the table to keep them here. You can come up with what you think was the main reason , but there were so many reasons that it was unsustainable. The subs prove that. Wildstar is nothing special, yet they counted on that very premise.
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Not going to argue with you. I know you have a couple of huge monsters posts up there, and sure, you've said some good stuff that I agree with, but I think we both know the Devs have their hands full with current content plus stuff that's already in the queue.
 
I know there is a problem. You know there is a problem. We both know the Devs disagree with us and have said on NUMEROUS occasions that multiple difficulties isn't in the cards, so I'm just encouraging solutions that, you know, have a chance to actually happen, as opposed to pipe dreams.
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Problem with that is, no one can say why the game died. I know people that left for many different reasons. Not a 1 of them was because the game was too hard.
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The only issue I see with the difficulty is that the learning curve is so steep that it might deter people from doing vet dungeons.  But once you know what you're doing, they become a LOT easier.
 
Yasfan I don't even know why you still play this game.
 
@OP, I didn't read much after you said 'there's nothing else to do end-game if you don't like doing dailies'.  Blatant lying doesn't make your argument stronger.	
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You're right. I was pissy and shouldn't have been. I already apologized in the other thread and offer similar apologies here.
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I am one of the returning players. I preordered the game, leveled up to 50 and quit. I came back for a brief stint in May to see how the game changed, I enjoyed some of the changes but how dead it was turned me off so I quit again until now.The first time I quit for a few reasons.
There was a lot of buggy content.
I wanted to do PvP and PvE content, I mostly did PvP to level up and at the time you didn't get reputation from PvP. Thus I was left severely behind in reputation which made me feel like even though I was 50 there was a huge wall in front of me that players who did PvE leveling didn't have. 
The PvP content itself seemed unbalanced and the good gear seemed difficult to obtain. Especially before the Red vs Blue that I hear they added when it seemed like my Exiles always lost. (Additionally only 2 Battlegrounds)
The PvE transition itself was a little off. With no Veteran Shiphands to get decent 50 gear, trying to do Veteran Adventures was very hard. I basically settled on grinding Crimelords because the other ones were too difficult.
Someone else said it in this thread but the naming was a little confusing. I didn't understand that there was a difficulty difference between Adventures and Dungeons so I was trying to do Dungeons as a fresh 50 before I realized and I think that problem will happen to a lot of the brand new players.
With my reputation problem and how difficult it seemed to me to get just basic gear as a fresh 50 (from PvP leveling at least) really burned me out on the game so I just quit and decided to keep an eye on it to come back later.
The second time I came back in May I was happy with a lot of the changes.
 
The Veteran Shiphand gear made it much easier to do all of the Adventures which helped me get the vet Dungeons done. I didn't think the difficulty was an issue.
Malgrave Trail was very long, but they changed that before I stopped again.
I did run into the issue of some people just not being able to keep up with the mechanics in some of the instances, but I've had that happen in countless games, even the just doing the prerequisite content to get into FFXIV Heavensward. I don't think it should be changed as it just makes it less fun for people like me.
The final thing that made me quit a second time was the queue times, especially at non-peak hours. First I switched off the PvP server I was on because it was completely dead, the PvE server was better but again PvP queues were ridiculously long (I've still yet to play the new BG). I don't always play at peak hours so if I play at a time when the game is dead it isn't much fun to me. So I quit again rather than subscribing.
 
Coming back now I think a lot of things have changed for the better. There is more content than ever to bridge the gap and I think there is something for everyone. Hopefully queue times for PvP and all stay low and I will continue to play. I don't really think the difficulty needs to be changed much more than it already is, if anything I do agree that maybe making the Expedition > Adventure > Dungeon > Raid progression clearer would go a long way.	
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All you asking for content nerf might aswell just go to wow or gw2...
 
Seriously, aren't you already sick of games that hand you everything just for the sake of it.
I'm not gonna talk about WS, I'm damn lvl7, game just won't let me play it (luminai loadings -.-) but from what I can see here and on youtube, WS is hard. 
 
Don't you miss that feeling of seeing someone wearing BiS raiding/pvp gear but you knew how much work and preparation was put into getting it.... just standing next to someone who wears it felt GOOD!
And when you actually get that item... well, that's a moment true gamer remembers for a life time.
 
Only game to give me such feeling was vanilla wow and burning crusade. WS is made by guys who made those expansions and I'm hoping that they will keep their ways and not catter to casual stuff.
Casual gaming has no appeal longer than a year or even half year.
 
MMO is a huge time investment, if you get all you need/want fast and easy, you will be gone. It doesn't have to be difficulty which equals to pre nerf AQ 40. That was just sick. Make it hard, but not stupidly hard.
 
I'm a type of player that will play one game and slowly climb my way to top. Imo, it's how mmos should be played.
That's why I hate what WoD (should i say WoWVille) brought us or so much praised yet so damn filthy casual, GW2. 
Those two are currently most played and best received mmos currently but, play them for 6 months and you are done.
I got second best gear set and couple of ascended gear pieces in GW2 IN A MONTH of casual gameplay. Got like 70% mats for legendary weapon (which isn't a weapon, only skin to ascended weapon). I explored entire world too...
All of that in a month. I regret every damn cent I gave for that game. 
Yes it looks very good, graphics are great, combat is good etc etc.... but what purpose it has when there is nothing to do and nothing to look forward to. 
There is no that feeling of "omg look at the weapon that guy has". Everyone has everything, everyone looks the same (costumes ftw :P )
 
Wildstar, from what I could read and see, is not like that. Why do you care about being in that top 5% of best geared players out there. There is always some better geared dude. There has to be content that pleases those "no-life-until-raid-tier-is-cleared" type of players. And i'm sure we, more casual players, got our piece of cake too.
 
I think the problem lies in the fact that we, as community, are too spoiled and want everything in game to be accessible to us.
What if I told you that some of the game content was NOT meant to be played by YOU, a casual average gamer that spend 2-3h per day on games? Would you say WS sucks?
 
Are you aware of the fact that over 15k people are currently playing vanilla wow private servers and trust me, casual gamer can't just hop into vanilla wow raiding. Yes, ofc... on private server anything is possible cuz none pays 15 dollars a month and can allow himself few wipes here and there, but even there you are the LAST person to be called in raid group. You'd get invite ONLY if raid geared player didn't show up. I have lvl60 priest on one of those servers and I'm speaking from perspective of someone who organized raid runs.
You could maybe get into MC or ZG pugs and do well up to some point too, but you can simply forget about BWL and AQ pugs. You will either raid your ass of or you will enjoy the sight while staring into inspect window and previewing gear on yourself while imagining that some day you will wear it too.
 
Over 15k people went back in time to play such game! Would you like 15k people here? Ofc you would. Carbine and NCsoft would love it too. 
Now you can re-live the days of old gaming ways with modern looks and polish. Why the hell not?
I'd take WS's difficulty and hardcore feel over any other game out there now. 
But that's just me and bunch of people who remained from launch until this day. I'm sure "game is hard" wasn't the only reason why people left.
 
It was more like "game is hard and I like it, but I can't afford to pay subscription just to wipe at same content each week".
Now with this model, f2p, such excuse is non-existant. You can spend money to support company and still be able to hop in anytime and try your best to progress and learn mechanics.
 
Just 2 cents of genre veteran which has lvl7 Esper stuck in loading screen :)
			
				
	Edited October 6, 2015 by Shivah	
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{| class="blockquote"
wow my thread got big :P
 
Again this was just my concern. not my point of view.
 
 
But if carbine are doing this for the money im sure they will nerf the content :P all other mmos have done that 
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wow my thread got big :P
 
Again this was just my concern. not my point of view.
 
 
But if carbine are doing this for the money im sure they will nerf the content :P all other mmos have done that 
 
 
The only thing i want from carbine REMOVE group Quests :P Omfg i hate that :P i just want to Solo my Quests and do 5man, raid pvp with people :P
 
I can NEVEr find people for my group dailys :P
			
				
	Edited October 6, 2015 by deathleecher	
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{| class="blockquote"
Have you done normal dungeons or only veteran dungeons? 
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{| class="blockquote"
That's exactly what we said to people last year and that's exactly why we're in the position we're in now.
 
People abandoned the game.
 
You might not like it but players that enjoy challenging content are the minority. 
 
Games are SUPPOSED to be fun. The masses don't like challenge and we're going to get the exact same results as last year. People will hit end game and move on to easier games, those that make it to end game, quite a few people will leave long before then.
 
Not all free to play games make it. If Wildstar doesn't keep the casual crowd interested then we need to hope that people like you are willing to pay the extra needed to keep the game afloat.
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well i like that there is realy hard stuff out there. I Quit last year cause when i reached 50 in the free Month the only thing you could do was doing Daily's and Spend ages in Dungeons to get the Raid Quest done (wich i still dont have)
 
I dont care what you think about my post, but i tell you even as F2P lots of People will Quit without some simple changes...
 
We all need the feeling of Successing and Progression, without it we would not even start a Game like this. There should be a Level 50 Training Mode for Dungeons!
So standing in a Telegraph does not Insta Kill you, Whenever you should Interrupt there should be a Ultra Bright Warning something.
I restarted cause with my LvL 50 i just was overwhelemed, so i have a Medic and even if i play Healer i never feel like taking out my 2 Interrupt Armor out of my LAS...
This Game is to Hard for People who just Play the Game cause it does not Teach you well enough.
There should be a very Hard Penalty for Leaving a Group or going Offline while in a Group longer than 5 minutes with a 1-2Hour Dungeon Lock debuff. Once every 24-36 Hours you can dismiss the Buff in case youre Router Broke or something like this.. (Gameplay -> Hardcore so Punishment for let down others should be no less).	
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{| class="blockquote"
2. The Dungeons are just too hard, sorry to say,, "i dont think they are too hard for my self" but been in like 20 Vet LFG groups , and no one knows what to do, so it failed EVERY time. People will leave because of this.
 
 
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			http://strawpoll.me/5666828Vote what you think	
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{| class="blockquote"
I am new to WIldstar. I am also a disabled player who will probably never have the skill to tackle the most difficult content due to my disability. I am fine with that. I am heartened to hear that there is stuff for someone like me to do at endgame and look forward to ferretting it all out.
 
I do NOT however advocate making anything easier because I will never have the ability to do it. Leave the hard stuff for the people that love it. Leave the other stuff for the rest of us. There is no rule that says everything has to be doable by everybody. There should be a rule that there is SOMETHING that is doable by everybody but that something need not be high end raids/dungeons.
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All I am gonna say is this: 
A massive amount of people who tried at launch quit because the "elder game" was far too tedious, grindy, daily heavy and difficult. It left barely any decent end game for casual players or players who believe 5 man content shouldn't feel like beating your head against a concrete wall.If Carbine truly hasn't fixed any of this in over a year, and the content is still as difficult and as grindy as everyone says it is in the "elder game," masses of people will stop playing again. Maybe not to the same extent as before, because it is free to play now, but it's not going to retain a lot of them. And I want it to. It's a good game. It just has some major flaws that really can't be overlooked for a second time.	
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I disagree with nerfing veteran dungeons. They're the only piece of content for the high-end of the midcore audience. If you aren't a raider but you still like challenging content, vet dungeons are it for you. Everything else is very easy from adventures on down. If they're nerfed, there will literally be nothing left in the game that's challenging aside from raiding and not everyone has the time or the PC for that kind of commitment.
 
More content at every skill level is always needed.
 
I'm glad people are telling Carbine that there isn't enough content, but please don't advocate for one group to lose what it has so that you get yours.
 
OP should try to get gold in every shiphand and adventure, as it doesn't seem that they have done that which is a part of endgame progression. There's also endgame crafting, PVP, contracts, achievements, events, rep grinding, and open world bosses. I'm guessing the OP is struggling to find stuff to do out of what exists. For that I would suggest using the content finder.
			
				
	Edited October 6, 2015 by eMachiavelli	
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			The only thing I'm concerned about is for them to get their shit together and deliver the experience they aimed for when they designed this game and get a decent income so they can continue making more amusing and etertaining content.	
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{| class="blockquote"
What?  Being part of a nice guild is hands down the best part of any MMO.  If you want a single player game there are hundreds of better options than MMOs.
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{| class="blockquote"
 
Hi all. 
 
Been playing wildstar for the past month like ALOT, and got 1 to 50 "warrior" and some from 16-25. and i REALLY got some concerns about this game. 
 
First of all would like to say what i REALLY like about the game.
 
1. The lore, OMFG its so amazing you get sucked rigtig into the game and want to keep learning more.
2. The instances are really nice too.
3. Crafting is Amazing and cost alot meaning you need to do stuff to get maxed out..
 
 
Now to my concers
 
1. When you hit 50, and you are like WEEEEE now i'm getting to the fun part. BUM! kick to the face. Now its world of DAilies. You have to make dailies for hours every day, And ALOT of the days are 5+ group up to 20 man Quests, and getting people are not easy, this will be a problem for the f2p player, they want to spend 1-3h in the game and feel like they did something good, you CANT do that in wildstar, you are stuck with DAilies.
2. The Dungeons are just too hard, sorry to say,, "i dont think they are too hard for my self" but been in like 20 Vet LFG groups , and no one knows what to do, so it failed EVERY time. People will leave because of this.
 
 
Lets say you dont want to do Dailies. Then you have nothing TO do :P and Yes im talking purely PVE, yes you can do Vet instances, and slam your face at the wall, because people have no idea what they are doing because the content is to hard for like 80% of all in Wildstar atm.
 
 
If the game stays like this, most people from f2p will leave, and Wildstar will keep a SMALL player base for sure.
 
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			It is not a problem of content or difficult but communication/language. I know people who plays, like the game but barely understand anything... Some of them even try to solo the protostar dungeon training and complained about not being able to take all numbers (interrupt armor) from the boss and keep dying.in other games playing is more intuitive even if you don't understand it really well, but you really need to speak English to learn to play Wildstar. Or at least read some guides in your language, which is not something most players will be willing to do.	
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i quit this game because of dailies. Dailies are like second job. Every day 2 hours for dailies is a JOKE!
looks like still same... SO SAD! i need amp and ability skill points. Why it is hard do get? why beloved why! are you guys hating players?
 
dailies must be take max. 30-40 mins. Not f. 2-3 hours. 2-3 hours is my daily play time. i want to play with my friends. 
			
				
	Edited October 6, 2015 by Bende Senin	
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My largest issue has been the fanatical veteran community. You guys are way to freaking toxic and it is really creating a barrier. The whole "good we don't want your kind here anyways!" thing doesn't fly.  I know why you act out, you feel threatened your game is being taken from you. Well your game that you so desperately love already has one foot in the grave, the veterans need to be far more understanding and accommodating towards the new players whether they pay or not.
 
A community can really make up for the misgivings of a developer. However in this case, Wildstars community has been falling on its face harder than Carbines sloppy code. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
Point being is that despite your assertions, Wildstar does not have to be popular for it to be a good game. It can simply be another choice on a list of games, giving people options depending on their preferences. If they want to be a choice with a bit more of a "hardcore" flare, then that's their design direction and it's a valid one entirely.
How it affects Carbine's pocket is really none of your concern, and it shouldn't be as long as the servers remain up (which requires a lot less players than you think).
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{| class="blockquote"
It is not a problem of content or difficult but communication/language. I know people who plays, like the game but barely understand anything... Some of them even try to solo the protostar dungeon training and complained about not being able to take all numbers (interrupt armor) from the boss and keep dying.
in other games playing is more intuitive even if you don't understand it really well, but you really need to speak English to learn to play Wildstar. Or at least read some guides in your language, which is not something most players will be willing to do.
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			I am not 50 yet since I'm leveling several chars at the same time. But both of your points worry me.	
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{| class="blockquote"
The only thing I'm concerned about is for them to get their shit together and deliver the experience they aimed for when they designed this game and get a decent income so they can continue making more amusing and etertaining content.
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My 2 cents:
 
I've been playing MMO's since Eve was in Beta (I didn't have a PC before that so I never got into Everquest). Back when the genre was relatively new and people were curious, guilds were wondrous places be. You had like-minded folk who played together, chatted to get to know one another and shared similar in-game goals. Grouping for events and dungeons was 'it' and - at least for me - helped to make MMO's fun. Back then MMO's were designed around group effort.
 
Nowadays you're more likely to find people who prefer solo content over grouped. It's sad, considering they're in an MMO - a game primarily based on interaction between players. I understand people don't always have the time to log in and play for extensive hours. I also understand that guilds can be frustrating for a myriad of reasons (i.e. high player turnaround rates, dungeon/raid planning nightmares, etc.).
 
I believe the in-game LFG dungeon/raid tool was developed because the amount of solo players had become a serious monetary issue for developers - keep the solo player happy and the money they provide keeps flowing.
 
So, when I read about people complaining that dungeon instances are too difficult, the first thing that comes to mind is that they must either be solo players who can't find a decent PUG or they are in a guild that doesn't work together towards dungeon runs or raiding.
 
Yes, having solo PvE content for those who can't commit a lot of their open hours to dungeon runs is a plus. But when the greater portion of end-game is dungeons and raiding instances, and people playing the game understand that long before they hit the level cap, then I have very little sympathy for those who complain.
 
Seriously, anyone who's played MMO's where learning the instances (i.e. timing interrupts on bosses, knowing when to stay out of the red zones, picking up alt aggro, etc.) is key to completing said instances can understand WS end-game. If your frustration is in PUGs that don't get it, or won't work together, then maybe you should find a guild that cares. If you can't be bothered with a guild, then live with the end-game content you can handle.	
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{| class="blockquote"
The quest is like "finish the protostar games", it is not clearly indicated that grouping is needed when you enter it,  it is easy to think it is like the ship instance  
Comming from gw2 I also notice that leveling zones are quite  empty and you have no incentive to group, talk, help... runing alone on quests look like the main rule.
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Maybe instead of nerfing the dungeons, what about Carbine making an in game quest for fresh 50s on how to get equipped properly for the vet content? I am still leveling my first character so I don't know if there is a quest like that ( I'm guessing not, from the amount of the threads have shown up this week about what to do at 50).
 
 
Or maybe just put an iLvl requirement before entering certain dungeons. 
iLvl requirement might be a better choice, cause a lot of people will just auto click through quests and not bother to read.
			
				
	Edited October 6, 2015 by RemyStarlord	
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what wildstar needs is toned down content viable for pug grouping. without this the game will fail horribly. the majority of people dont want to socialize,they dont want to use voice coms and they definitely dont want to be a slave to a guilds raid schedule! 
 
if carbine does not manage to introduce tiered difficulties for raids, dungeons and implement working lfg/lfr then this game is already dead	
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			ps: carbine does not need to nerf vet dungeons but they have to introduce a pug difficulty. its basically the wow model with normal, heroic, mythic	
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{| class="blockquote"
ps: carbine does not need to nerf vet dungeons but they have to introduce a pug difficulty. its basically the wow model with normal, heroic, mythic
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{| class="blockquote"
What in the holiest of hells are you whittering about?
 
I already know I like the game, can you not check profiles, I was here at the original launch.
 
My problem is with Carbines player retention and problem solving.
 
If I didn't like it, I would leave. I don't need some random halfwit on a forum pointing out the painfully bloody obvious.
 
I didn't say group content wasn't available, I said the vast majority of MMO's can be played solo.
 
Reading comprehension, get some.
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So gonna touch on a few points since i haven't posted since yesterday.
 
~You don't need to do dailies for anything anymore. You can get all of your amp/ability points without doing a single daily quest if you want. For those talking about the daily grind.
~Dungeon content really isn't hard and there are multiple levels of difficulty already. Shiphands > Adventures > Dungeons is the progression path. Once you finish golding one move to the next. Keep working to better your own gameplay.
~LFR has been a bane since it's inception. Putting it into Wildstar will not help anything. It will just continue to make the playerbase not care about being better. This game is all about improving yourself from level 1 to 50. It trains you over the course of the game to handle end game. If you are having trouble early on, talk to someone who isn't and find out why you are. 
~MMO stands for Massive Multiplayer Online, it is NOT a solo game and never was intended to be. If you can't be social and talk to people/work together then maybe Call of Duty is more what you are looking for. Yes I know I shouldn't be turning people away but this is just reality.
~At launch the information did not exist to help new players come into end game. The high end guilds were focused on clearing content rather than helping the playerbase. That has changed now. There is much more information available and the content has been significantly nerfed to make things much more streamlined and much easier. 
~Interrupts, interrupts, interrupts. Can't say it enough. If you are having trouble with any encounter in this game, simply look for what you can interrupt. It changes the entire fight once you figure it out.
 
Please stop trying to nerf content rather than better yourself. There is nothing in this life that gets easier just because you have trouble doing it. You have to get better to accomplish it. School, work, everything. Why you would want to go into a game and take that away from someone rather than try to learn is beyond me. However it's not your fault. People have been trained by Blizzard and their ever impressive lack of desire to teach new players. Instead they just nerf everything until 95% of the playerbase can do it blindfolded. They haven't helped this generation of gamers in anyway at all. They have started a trend that will ultimately be the death of the MMO genre completely.	
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{| class="blockquote"
So gonna touch on a few points since i haven't posted since yesterday.
 
~You don't need to do dailies for anything anymore. You can get all of your amp/ability points without doing a single daily quest if you want. For those talking about the daily grind.
~Dungeon content really isn't hard and there are multiple levels of difficulty already. Shiphands > Adventures > Dungeons is the progression path. Once you finish golding one move to the next. Keep working to better your own gameplay.
~LFR has been a bane since it's inception. Putting it into Wildstar will not help anything. It will just continue to make the playerbase not care about being better. This game is all about improving yourself from level 1 to 50. It trains you over the course of the game to handle end game. If you are having trouble early on, talk to someone who isn't and find out why you are. 
~MMO stands for Massive Multiplayer Online, it is NOT a solo game and never was intended to be. If you can't be social and talk to people/work together then maybe Call of Duty is more what you are looking for. Yes I know I shouldn't be turning people away but this is just reality.
~At launch the information did not exist to help new players come into end game. The high end guilds were focused on clearing content rather than helping the playerbase. That has changed now. There is much more information available and the content has been significantly nerfed to make things much more streamlined and much easier. 
~Interrupts, interrupts, interrupts. Can't say it enough. If you are having trouble with any encounter in this game, simply look for what you can interrupt. It changes the entire fight once you figure it out.
 
Please stop trying to nerf content rather than better yourself. There is nothing in this life that gets easier just because you have trouble doing it. You have to get better to accomplish it. School, work, everything. Why you would want to go into a game and take that away from someone rather than try to learn is beyond me. However it's not your fault. People have been trained by Blizzard and their ever impressive lack of desire to teach new players. Instead they just nerf everything until 95% of the playerbase can do it blindfolded. They haven't helped this generation of gamers in anyway at all. They have started a trend that will ultimately be the death of the MMO genre completely.
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{| class="blockquote"
You need the amp thingy for elder gems :P DO DAILYS :P
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{| class="blockquote"
Wow you are really friendly... :P
 
Sorry i dont remember every face that where here on the forum since launch, but i only recognize players the registerd on the forum in 2013 and since you are from 2014...
 
But i guess we should go back to topic :)
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{| class="blockquote"
People have been trained by Blizzard and their ever impressive lack of desire to teach new players. Instead they just nerf everything until 95% of the playerbase can do it blindfolded. They haven't helped this generation of gamers in anyway at all. They have started a trend that will ultimately be the death of the MMO genre completely.
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{| class="blockquote"
 
If you give people the option to take the easy way, the majority of them will.
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{| class="blockquote"
They've done only because WoW playerbase has grown older and dont have much time to play "hardcore" anymore.  
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{| class="blockquote"
Frustrated more than anything.
 
Everytime someone has a concern I see the same thing "if you don't like it, leave".
 
That is exactly what people said last year and people listened, they left, and now the game is fighting for survival. Telling people to leave if they don't like it works if the game is doing fantastic, this isn't. It needs people playing it or we'll be in the same spot in another 12 months only next time it will be NC shutting the servers down.
 
I don't want that and I assume most folk here don't but that's what will happen if people abandon the game again.
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{| class="blockquote"
The point for some. Not everyone can get world first, so not everyone cares about the race. For most guilds, the point is to do as good as they can. To be on top of their game, and to get better and progress constantly.
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{| class="blockquote"
Frustrated more than anything.
 
Everytime someone has a concern I see the same thing "if you don't like it, leave".
 
That is exactly what people said last year and people listened, they left, and now the game is fighting for survival. Telling people to leave if they don't like it works if the game is doing fantastic, this isn't. It needs people playing it or we'll be in the same spot in another 12 months only next time it will be NC shutting the servers down.
 
I don't want that and I assume most folk here don't but that's what will happen if people abandon the game again.
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{| class="blockquote"
It's the nature of the beast this day and age. Why struggle when you can see the same content while watching netflix?
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{| class="blockquote"
The point is doing it asap (pve race, you know). For most of guilds you mentioned it takes months to kill last boss (with overgear and nerfs).
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{| class="blockquote"
All you mentioned is shown as Wowprogress rank which is also part of the race.
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{| class="blockquote"
 
 
The point is doing it asap (pve race, you know). For most of guilds you mentioned it takes months to kill last boss (with overgear and nerfs).
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{| class="blockquote"
Imo carbine should really think about the content. If they want to make money, they need to make the content more easy to get to. If they want a hardcore playerbase and not that meany money, then they should just do it like tihs.
 
 
Buit the fact is most people dont like hard content. 
 
Look at WOw. people Quit when mystic came out,.  ppl dont like that and that is just a fact
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{| class="blockquote"
Let's face it, if you are not raiding 5-7 days a week and putting in massive amounts of time in the game then you are in no way associated with the world first race. So worrying about that is completely pointless. The guilds that raid 3 days a week want 1 thing, to clear the content. Whether that's a month or 6 months into content doesn't matter.
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{| class="blockquote"
 Its like saying its not worth running a marathon when you are clearly not good enough to be 1-3.
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{| class="blockquote"
 Its like saying its not worth running a marathon when you are clearly not good enough to be 1-3.
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{| class="blockquote"
Most people running marathons aren't pushing to run a Tour De France either. 
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