149766-wildstars-hooks-and-why-they-arent-holding-my-attention

== Content ==
			
I just want to start by saying that Wildstar definitely feels like a quality game. Theres a pretty decent chunk of beginning and endgame content to keep most who are invested here busy for the time being and new updates incoming still. So why isn't Wildstar sticking? Why does the F2P conversion feel/seem like a mimimal change as far as population/player activity? Well I can't speak for everyone but as far as myself, I've tried giving Wildstar a fair shot multiple times now. And I just can't get into it. For me and a few of my military buddies that I've forced to try and play with me all kinda feel the same in the majority of the reasons Wildstar just doesn't hold our attention. 
 
The first thing we seem to agree on is Wildstar's combat. Yes it's unique and no other MMO on the market goes with the telegraph combat system Wildstar has chosen. And what my friends and I tend to agree on is while it's not bad, it doesn't feel like the "fun factor" is there any more than a traditional MMO's combat system, it makes both melee and range (or just multiple classes in general) feel less unique. Regardless of the animation your just watching the telegraph and that's it. Do I feel like a more "traditional" MMO combat system is better? For me personally yes, it's not this mindboggling revolutionary thing but it's not exactly broken either. Three super successful (in terms of revenue and population) MMO's on the market today are doing so with the traditional tab targeting, 2-3 skill bar system (World Of Warcraft, Final Fantasy, and Star Wars The Old Republic). Other than Blade & Soul all the other MMO's out on the market today seem to struggle keeping up with both population & revenue of MMO's that have stuck with the traditional MMO combat system format. Is this the "de-facto" reason? Probably not, combat is probably what you do the most in an MMO and Wildstar's new take on combat isn't making people clamber at the chance to log-in and play Wildstar either. Superdata's Research for MMO's 2013: http://1u88jj3r4db2x4txp44yqfj1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/top-10-superdata.jpg 2014: http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/20/5920815/list-of-mmos-by-revenue-warcraft-old-republic The above is based off of revenue, Superdata hasn't released anything for 2015 yet which is common as 2016 just started. if you so feel inclined Superdata and other companies break down MMO's based off population as well (even f2p MMO's) as subscription numbers wouldn't be an accurate assessment of player populations. What I would say is gamer's don't know what they want in some respects. Wildstar was supposed to appease the "hardcore" MMO gamer, and that quickly proved wrong. I feel like MMO combat at the moment at least is the same. MMO players say they want "change" or the traditional format is getting stale, but the most successful MMO's on the market have the traditional combat we are all used to.
 
The second thing is the game's population. All of my military buddies agreed that this was probably one of the biggest turn-offs for us to Wildstar. Endgame's population isn't exactly staggering (and god forbid your on the dominion side then it's even worse) and endgame's population is pretty much established where guilds and groups know eachother and run through content together that way (this goes for both PVE and PVP content). Leveling PVP/Dungeons were next to non-existant where we would see a random pop after being in queue for upwards of 3 hrs during NA peak hrs. Endgame "random" queue pops would still take a significant amount of time with Ranked PVP being a ghost town unless we coordinated with a group of people to queue together. So since random queuing was out of the question at times we attempted to group up with endgame players (seeing as we could find next to nobody while leveling), There is very minimal social interaction of meeting new players and random groups forming up to do things (again not to say it doesn't exist but it is very minimal compared to other MMO's in our experiences). If it wasn't for there being about 6 of us playing together, than seeing alot of endgame content would have taken about x3 times as long. Thinking about leveling a new toon? Well unless you like running and doing things on your own you better have a friend who will level with you. Even if you're ok with leveling solo (which understandably some are) you're gonna run into next to nobody. My friend recorded his leveling experience 1-50 and counted seeing 8 or 9 people questing/leveling in that entire process. MMO's thrive in having players inhabit your worlds, even if you play yourself seeing other players helps flesh out the world (and in the case of PVP servers) they can serve as content themselves through open world PVP (which unfortunately PVP is next to dead in Wildstar) which is sad as I'm a huge fan of PVP as well.
 
The last few things were minor gripes by us but we felt that they weren't necessary gamechangers for us, We do however still feel that these help contribute to a lack of player growth or in some cases (like ours) player retention. The UI is pretty wonky despite it being poorly optimized, it's anything but user friendly especially for newer players. Alot of menus could definitely be condensed. The Currency system was another issue we felt is a contributing factor. Aside from the bronze, silver, gold, and platinum system build into place, now with f2p there are omnibits, and a laundry list of others, again not a gamechanger but a contributer. Class balance particularly in PVP was another issue we could all agree on. Healers have a huge gap between them as far as viability mixed with specs and how they are balanced (not gonna even attempt to explain the drastic issues with different group compositions and how they are balanced in ranked). And whether your a long time Wildstar vet or a newcomer who just hit endgame a few months ago the lack of frequent updates definitely seems to help drive off players. 
 
Again before some of the hardcore Wildstar fans get out their pitchforks, this is a group of about 5 of my military buddies and myself's opinions based on our experiences with Wildstar. We all leveled brand new toons to max level and done a decent chunk of the dungeons. We also did endgame PVP (as we primarily enjoy PVP) so we have a good grasp on Wildstar and what it is up to this point. Again it's a quality game, but what I've come to realize from playing other MMOs in my time is that the longer you play an MMO the less you appreciate little things about it or start to see it in a different light than a newcomer. This is me and a group of friends perspective on Wildstar and let's face it whether you use Wildstar's most recent earnings report or not, nobody at this point is clambering to knock down Wildstar's server walls and log-into Wildstar atm. Is it a "dead" MMO? Seeing as Carbine's lights are still on and the dev team is still pushing out some sort of content no, but it's certainly not in the best of spots either. So for those of you guys that enjoy Wildstar I wish you guys and the Carbine Dev team the best of luck but Wildstar just doesn't seem to be our MMO despite the multiple times we have given it a try. Have fun hope Carbine and NCSoft can turn this ship around.
			
				
	Edited February 20, 2016 by MightyMouse019	
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Well, that opinion - it's just yours. And that's okay. Keep it.
 
Btw. would you be that good to tell me, why you write this kind of stuff? What are you expecting back from it?	
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Well, that opinion - it's just yours. And that's okay. Keep it.
 
Btw. would you be that good to tell me, why you write this kind of stuff? What are you expecting back from it?
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Did you read the entire post? It's not just my opinion this was a general agreement of me and a few of my military buddies who put a decent chunk of time into Wildstar. As far as what we gained from it, nothing. We aren't looking to "gain" anything, if anything we are just trying to lay out some information (with the idea its an opinion of a select group of individuals who are new and put time in) and why it isn't holding our attention. I get it you love Wildstar good for you, don't be pissed because others have a different view of the game and wish to share it with others.
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I'm completely not pissed. I'm just trying to figure out, what you want to try to contribute with your and your "military buddies" point of views. Because, I don't get it. All I see is: "This game is bad." It actually has 0 constructiveness. So, well, if you don't like the game, I'd offer you to just leave this game behind and that's it - no need to bother me or those actually enjoying the game, right?
 
Now, if you're trying to make suggestions, just do them. But I don't see any, since you're just pointing out stuff you don't like at all or you just feel wrong, broken, nonsense or whatever else.
 
I don't get why you're frustrated after all: Playing this game is your solely your decision. No one is forcing you.
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TL;DR
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Thanks for the salt. I could use also a bit of pepper and vinegar. And of course, lesser whine.
 
Don't forget to turn off the lights once you hit the door.
 
Fare thee well.
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Well mouse. From what I've seem so far; I pretty much like everything about the game. I find the telegraph system refreshing. It's good to have to sort of aim a little bit. The praphics and renderings are beautiful and imersive. The customizable everything is just about the greatest thing since electricity. I've experienced it's replayabillity as I've lost count of the times that I've decide to burn a character and have a redo and have enjoyed it every time. 
 
My most recent MMO to WildStar would be WoW and I was happy to leave it. Blizz doesn't even come close. Yeah they have a larger population but so does China. I have no desire to live there either. As I understand it, WS's population problem stems from a series of issues that the game had, that have pretty much been resolved. The way that I see it is it had a really extended and rough beta. 
 
Anyway it's all good now. WS is stable, well thought out, tested and commenced. It has a solid business plan that gives plenty of options and benefits to those willing to spend a dime while not going pay to win. The community will grow. Once WS partners with Steem it will likely grow quickly. The nice thing about Steem is it has the resources to support such growth. 
 
So by all means, if other games are your thing; play other games Mouse. Oh and do try and fish a little less with the "military buddy" thing. Those of us that have been there and done that don't have to point at our t-shirts. It's unbecoming.
			
				
	Edited February 20, 2016 by Scatter Gun	
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Well mouse. From what I've seem so far; I pretty much like everything about the game. I find the telegraph system refreshing. It's good to have to sort of aim a little bit. The praphics and renderings are beautiful and imersive. The customizable everything is just about the greatest thing since electricity. I've experienced it's replayabillity as I've lost count of the times that I've decide to burn a character and have a redo and have enjoyed it every time.
 
My most recent MMO to WildStar would be WoW and I was happy to leave it. Blizz doesn't even come close. Yeah they have a larger population but so does China. I have no desire to live there either. As I understand it, WS's population problem stems from a series of issues that the game had, that have pretty much been resolved. The way that I see it is it had a really extended and rough beta.
 
Anyway it's all good now. WS is stable, well thought out, tested and commenced. It has a solid business plan that gives plenty of options and benefits to those willing to spend a dime while not going pay to win. The community will grow. Once WS partners with Steem it will likely grow quickly. The nice thing about Steem is it has the resources to support such growth.
 
So by all means, if other games are your thing; play other games Mouse. Oh and do try and fish a little less with the "military buddy" thing. Those of us that have been there and done that don't have to point at our t-shirts. It's unbecoming.
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			Hmm, you kept bringing up "military buddies". What's the significance of that, compared to, say, housewife buddies or musician buddies or hockey buddies?	
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Hmm, you kept bringing up "military buddies". What's the significance of that, compared to, say, housewife buddies or musician buddies or hockey buddies?
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			Out
			
				
	Edited February 20, 2016 by MightyMouse019	
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			Why do ex/current military feel the need to always tell people. Like you dont see people say " Me and my chef buddies" Your job means nothing here so why bother bring it up? 	
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Why do ex/current military feel the need to always tell people. 
 
Like you dont see people say " Me and my chef buddies" 
 
Your job means nothing here so why bother bring it up? 
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Why do ex/current military feel the need to always tell people. 
 
Like you dont see people say " Me and my chef buddies" 
 
Your job means nothing here so why bother bring it up?
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Out of 10 posts is that seriously what we are gonna focus on? LMAO I tend to notice this happens alot on the good ole interwebs. MMO forums are so used to being filled with toxic conversation that when someone attempts to talk rationally about something people have to gravitate to anything I guess. Sure I said military buddies, I guess I have to break down my psyche or personality now this is hilarious. So my personality or I guess more-so the way I tend to talk is hey these are my military buddies, hey these are my classmates, or school buddies (college) etc. I tend to only have a small tight knit group of friends that I just call friends, anybody else I tend to classify as "the type" of buddy they are to me. Whether you agree with how I type or talk is up to you but I type how I talk. LMAO one thing I'll give Wildstar is their forum posters are either super conflict oriented or need a hug one of the two. Yes I said military buddies ohhhh boy. :)
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Wow, what's up with people on these forums? Someone posts a decent, well-written thread about the aspects of the game they and their friends didn't really like, with specific examples and keeping it respectful to the game, and people either have a go at him, or focus on the fact he used the term "military buddies", completely ignoring all the stuff he actually said about the game. Unbeleivable.
 
You really aren't doing a very good job at helping the community of this game, and it's something I see a lot on these forums. I myself think these threads are incredibly-important, especially for a game that isn't doing particularly well in terms of revenue or player numbers.	
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Wow, what's up with people on these forums? Someone posts a decent, well-written thread about the aspects of the game they and their friends didn't really like, with specific examples and keeping it respectful to the game, and people either have a go at him, or focus on the fact he used the term "military buddies", completely ignoring all the stuff he actually said about the game. Unbeleivable.
 
You really aren't doing a very good job at helping the community of this game, and it's something I see a lot on these forums. I myself think these threads are incredibly-important, especially for a game that isn't doing particularly well in terms of revenue or player numbers.
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Why do ex/current military feel the need to always tell people. 
Like you dont see people say " Me and my chef buddies" 
Your job means nothing here so why bother bring it up?
 
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Hi all,
I was sort of nervous about posting on this thread as I thought maybe some folks would get really mad at me but I think It's important for the developers to know the reasons players leave the game.
I've kind of had the same experience as MightyMouse019 seems to have had, not all the reasons he posted about but some of them. I think the interesting thing for me is that he's an adult and I'm still at school so maybe It might be good feedback, at least I hope so. 
None of my friends played wildstar because it was subscription, I was able to because I had a part time job and that was the agreement I had with my dad (he did pay for some months though  :) ) When it went free to play I was worried about the game but excited because all my friends could play finally. Most everyone I know plays league of legends but lots of my classmates tried wildstar, it was really cool. Right now though its just my best friend, her sister and me that's left and I don't understand why.
MightyMouse019 said that the combat was a problem and that's also what a lot of my friends complained about, I like it fine but it could be that many players don't as much. I'm pretty sure they cant change something like that (I hope they dont) so if people dont like it they'll have to move to another game  :(
The population problems he mentioned don't really effect us as we don't play dungeons or pvp. I know things could be a lot better but I'm hoping this steam thing helps a bit. I understand though that it must be really frustrating for getting groups and such.
The things posted about the ui was interesting. My friend had lots of problems with it but we fixed some of the issues with addons but it gets kind of weird at times, hard to explain.
Currency's can get a bit confusing sometimes, we had all kinds of problems with the crafting ones for some reason, we ended up buying tons of stuff we didn't even need  :lol:. It is a bit confusing for new players I think but maybe thats just us, im not sure.
I'm always sad when someone leaves the game but I'm glad when they give the reasons why, I think it's kind of important.
I'm still not really sure why most all my friends left but I'm going to keep tying to get them back, I miss them. 
Wildstars awesome and I'm sorry it didnt work out for you and your friends MighyMouse019, hope you try it again sometime in the future  :)
Hope that all made sense.
Thanks.	
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I just want to start by saying that Wildstar definitely feels like a quality game. Theres a pretty decent chunk of beginning and endgame content to keep most who are invested here busy for the time being and new updates incoming still. So why isn't Wildstar sticking? Why does the F2P conversion feel/seem like a mimimal change as far as population/player activity? Well I can't speak for everyone but as far as myself, I've tried giving Wildstar a fair shot multiple times now. And I just can't get into it. For me and a few of my military buddies that I've forced to try and play with me all kinda feel the same in the majority of the reasons Wildstar just doesn't hold our attention. 
 
The first thing we seem to agree on is Wildstar's combat. Yes it's unique and no other MMO on the market goes with the telegraph combat system Wildstar has chosen. And what my friends and I tend to agree on is while it's not bad, it doesn't feel like the "fun factor" is there any more than a traditional MMO's combat system, it makes both melee and range (or just multiple classes in general) feel less unique. Regardless of the animation your just watching the telegraph and that's it. Do I feel like a more "traditional" MMO combat system is better? For me personally yes, it's not this mindboggling revolutionary thing but it's not exactly broken either. Three super successful (in terms of revenue and population) MMO's on the market today are doing so with the traditional tab targeting, 2-3 skill bar system (World Of Warcraft, Final Fantasy, and Star Wars The Old Republic). Other than Blade & Soul all the other MMO's out on the market today seem to struggle keeping up with both population & revenue of MMO's that have stuck with the traditional MMO combat system format. Is this the "de-facto" reason? Probably not, combat is probably what you do the most in an MMO and Wildstar's new take on combat isn't making people clamber at the chance to log-in and play Wildstar either. Superdata's Research for MMO's 2013: http://1u88jj3r4db2x4txp44yqfj1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/top-10-superdata.jpg 2014: http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/20/5920815/list-of-mmos-by-revenue-warcraft-old-republic The above is based off of revenue, Superdata hasn't released anything for 2015 yet which is common as 2016 just started. if you so feel inclined Superdata and other companies break down MMO's based off population as well (even f2p MMO's) as subscription numbers wouldn't be an accurate assessment of player populations. What I would say is gamer's don't know what they want in some respects. Wildstar was supposed to appease the "hardcore" MMO gamer, and that quickly proved wrong. I feel like MMO combat at the moment at least is the same. MMO players say they want "change" or the traditional format is getting stale, but the most successful MMO's on the market have the traditional combat we are all used to.
 
The second thing is the game's population. All of my military buddies agreed that this was probably one of the biggest turn-offs for us to Wildstar. Endgame's population isn't exactly staggering (and god forbid your on the dominion side then it's even worse) and endgame's population is pretty much established where guilds and groups know eachother and run through content together that way (this goes for both PVE and PVP content). Leveling PVP/Dungeons were next to non-existant where we would see a random pop after being in queue for upwards of 3 hrs during NA peak hrs. Endgame "random" queue pops would still take a significant amount of time with Ranked PVP being a ghost town unless we coordinated with a group of people to queue together. So since random queuing was out of the question at times we attempted to group up with endgame players (seeing as we could find next to nobody while leveling), There is very minimal social interaction of meeting new players and random groups forming up to do things (again not to say it doesn't exist but it is very minimal compared to other MMO's in our experiences). If it wasn't for there being about 6 of us playing together, than seeing alot of endgame content would have taken about x3 times as long. Thinking about leveling a new toon? Well unless you like running and doing things on your own you better have a friend who will level with you. Even if you're ok with leveling solo (which understandably some are) you're gonna run into next to nobody. My friend recorded his leveling experience 1-50 and counted seeing 8 or 9 people questing/leveling in that entire process. MMO's thrive in having players inhabit your worlds, even if you play yourself seeing other players helps flesh out the world (and in the case of PVP servers) they can serve as content themselves through open world PVP (which unfortunately PVP is next to dead in Wildstar) which is sad as I'm a huge fan of PVP as well.
 
The last few things were minor gripes by us but we felt that they weren't necessary gamechangers for us, We do however still feel that these help contribute to a lack of player growth or in some cases (like ours) player retention. The UI is pretty wonky despite it being poorly optimized, it's anything but user friendly especially for newer players. Alot of menus could definitely be condensed. The Currency system was another issue we felt is a contributing factor. Aside from the bronze, silver, gold, and platinum system build into place, now with f2p there are omnibits, and a laundry list of others, again not a gamechanger but a contributer. Class balance particularly in PVP was another issue we could all agree on. Healers have a huge gap between them as far as viability mixed with specs and how they are balanced (not gonna even attempt to explain the drastic issues with different group compositions and how they are balanced in ranked). And whether your a long time Wildstar vet or a newcomer who just hit endgame a few months ago the lack of frequent updates definitely seems to help drive off players. 
 
Again before some of the hardcore Wildstar fans get out their pitchforks, this is a group of about 5 of my military buddies and myself's opinions based on our experiences with Wildstar. We all leveled brand new toons to max level and done a decent chunk of the dungeons. We also did endgame PVP (as we primarily enjoy PVP) so we have a good grasp on Wildstar and what it is up to this point. Again it's a quality game, but what I've come to realize from playing other MMOs in my time is that the longer you play an MMO the less you appreciate little things about it or start to see it in a different light than a newcomer. This is me and a group of friends perspective on Wildstar and let's face it whether you use Wildstar's most recent earnings report or not, nobody at this point is clambering to knock down Wildstar's server walls and log-into Wildstar atm. Is it a "dead" MMO? Seeing as Carbine's lights are still on and the dev team is still pushing out some sort of content no, but it's certainly not in the best of spots either. So for those of you guys that enjoy Wildstar I wish you guys and the Carbine Dev team the best of luck but Wildstar just doesn't seem to be our MMO despite the multiple times we have given it a try. Have fun hope Carbine and NCSoft can turn this ship around.
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Well, that opinion - it's just yours. And that's okay. Keep it.
 
Btw. would you be that good to tell me, why you write this kind of stuff? What are you expecting back from it?
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It is called "feedback", that's what usually all companies want from customers, you know.
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to your first issue combat, either this game is what you have been waiting for or you like slow combat tab targetting.  i cannot play those games anymore.  this game broke them for me.  i resubbed to wow, ffxiv, and some others.  played for two hours and never, ever, resubbed.  just couldnt.  so its either for you or not.  sounds like for you it isnt.  dont stand in red is pretty common, telegraphs.  but healing telegraphs are newer and add a higher skill level to this gameplay.
 
your other complaints are based totally on population issues or perceptions.  queue pops at low levels, high levels, pvp, etc...all due to low pop numbers.  your complaints on classes i believe come from lack of mastery.  there are differences between them that play to ppls different play style strengths healer, dps, and tanks.  not sure if you are pvp orientated or pve orientated.  pve is best in the business imo.  raids in this game put other game to shame for me.  that is why i keep playing.
 
and regardless of what anyone says about you including your job, referencing other players, etc...is all valid because it doesnt bring anything to your post.  validity of claims can always be questionable and what really is not in question is your opinion.  everyone who posts one like this typically are the same.  offer valid criticism but not constructive. throw in me and everyone i know, which again to bring others is just trying to show that you are not the only one.  forum replies should prove that if it is true.  but if the game isnt grabbing you, it probably wont.  dont try to like things.  like them because you do.  this game grabbed me and possibly broke me in a few ways with regards to mmo's moving forward. but i have a blast while i can.	
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Well, Im on the opposite side when it comes to combat. The combat is probably what's having the biggest lasting power for me in this game.
I got into black desert online beta weekend and tried it out and realised how spoiled I had been with the combat in Wildstar :)	
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Why do ex/current military feel the need to always tell people. 
 
Like you dont see people say " Me and my chef buddies" 
 
Your job means nothing here so why bother bring it up? 
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Hey! Maybe he is trying to say that game is not hardcore, that even military folk can play it?
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People have posed the question, why has the F2P conversion not done a better job of player retention or growth. While I don't presume to have a factual concrete answer to that I at the very least can share our views and opinions based on our experiences so far. :)
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A few points I'd make for fun after reading OP and responses. To the OP:Your post seems pretty fair to me and your tone is not hostile, both good things. I think what may upset people is the focus mostly on bad things, which even if it makes for decent feedback doesn't make for a good public forum post (should be given through other means). In particular, you have a giant central paragraph focused only on the game's low population. Well, OK. That's not exactly 'feedback', it's more like Captain Obvious territory. :P  Carbine and everyone else are well aware that the game is low population compared to other triple-A MMOs. So stating it does nothing at all to help, and in fact, it's more likely to hurt by way of unnecessary bad press (though I doubt many would leave over it, just saying). Further, being a bit more practical, think about it for a minute: Did you really expect that the community suffering low population would respond positively to a paragraph reminding them of a problem they deal with every day? I'm not accusing you of anything but I believe gamers need to be more aware of context when they post feedback. Ask yourself if it's going to actually be useful or if it's more likely to contribute to general malaise. Not everything we think needs to be said.
 
Again, I think many of your points are fair but this paragraph about population is just like... OK, we know. Many of us have been playing for a year or more and it's been talked about a lot. There are a TON of posts on this forum about it and they all amount to the same heap of garbage. So that probably explains some of the backlash you've seen here.
 
On the point of 'military buddies', yea, sometimes it feels like certain people in the military have this thing for announcing themselves, and to some 'civilians' it can get pretty annoying. Especially the civilians who don't particularly like some of the things the military represents. That said, my impression (which may be mistaken) is that the military ~really~ pushes the sense of community within its ranks, and obviously if you believe you might be dying for peers one day you tend to develop some pretty damn strong attachments. So I can appreciate why some folks would write or say something like "me and my military buddies" with no intent to browbeat us with status values. If I'm having a casual conversation with someone I may well clarify "me and my friends" or "me and my family" with no desire to show-off; they just mean enough to me, for one reason or another, to intuitively clarify them in language.
 
Consequently, OP, if you feel like your comrades are part of another family and tend to refer to them with such specificity and sense of closeness... then I say power to you. But hopefully you can also understand that, like rabid sportsfans, there are some military members who love to show off their status and that can get annoying for the rest of the world. :P
			
				
	Edited February 20, 2016 by EsperXIV	
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A few points I'd make for fun after reading OP and responses. To the OP:
 
Your post seems pretty fair to me and your tone is not hostile, both good things. I think what may upset people is the focus mostly on bad things, which even if it makes for decent feedback doesn't make for a good public forum post (should be given through other means). In particular, you have a giant central paragraph focused only on the game's low population. Well, OK. That's not exactly 'feedback', it's more like Captain Obvious territory. :P  Carbine and everyone else are well aware that the game is low population compared to other triple-A MMOs. So stating it does nothing at all to help, and in fact, it's more likely to hurt by way of unnecessary bad press (though I doubt many would leave over it, just saying). Further, being a bit more practical, think about it for a minute: Did you really expect that the community suffering low population would respond positively to a paragraph reminding them of a problem they deal with every day? I'm not accusing you of anything but I believe gamers need to be more aware of context when they post feedback. Ask yourself if it's going to actually be useful or if it's more likely to contribute to general malaise. Not everything we think needs to be said.
 
Again, I think many of your points are fair but this paragraph about population is just like... OK, we know. Many of us have been playing for a year or more and it's been talked about a lot. There are a TON of posts on this forum about it and they all amount to the same heap of garbage. So that probably explains some of the backlash you've seen here.
 
On the point of 'military buddies', yea, sometimes it feels like certain people in the military have this thing for announcing themselves, and to some 'civilians' it can get pretty annoying. Especially the civilians who don't particularly like some of the things the military represents. That said, my impression (which may be mistaken) is that the military ~really~ pushes the sense of community within its ranks, and obviously if you believe you might be dying for peers one day you tend to develop some pretty damn strong attachments. So I can appreciate why some folks would write or say something like "me and my military buddies" with no intent to browbeat us with status values. If I'm having a casual conversation with someone I may well clarify "me and my friends" or "me and my family" with no desire to show-off; they just mean enough to me, for one reason or another, to intuitively clarify them in language.
 
Consequently, OP, if you feel like your comrades are part of another family and tend to refer to them with such specificity and sense of closeness... then I say power to you. But hopefully you can also understand that, like rabid sportsfans, there are some military members who love to show off their status and that can get annoying for the rest of the world. :P
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All fair points, OMG are you sure you're part of the Wildstar forum community? Lol yea completely understandable, What I have noticed the further into this thread it has gone is that individuals who see a rational post about things they don't necessarily agree with, yet they have nothing meaningful to contribute so they resort to "heh you said military buddy, heh". Not sure if you have any type of military background yourself but either way glad to see you at least see things from both sides of the fence, and quite frankly both things are legitimate. You have "less than desirables" in all professions and walks of life the military is not exempt either. 
 
As far as the population portion, it's a fair point, I was more explaining from our perspectives what we encountered in our experience with Wildstar as a whole. What I have noticed is individuals who are at endgame and are in these "established" guilds or groups that run content are kinda in their own bubble in a way. In some circumstances I've seen those individuals claim the population isn't as big of an issue as it is simply because they have no issue grouping up for content etc. So the point of that section was just to highlight the issues that a group of new individuals were having when all of us weren't online to group up and run together.
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			Whatever. I'm over it.	
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Whatever. I'm over it.
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Now log-into another one of your accounts and continue latching onto this one thing if that makes you feel better hmmmkay :)
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Wow, he's also paranoid. Here we go.
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Wow, what's up with people on these forums? Someone posts a decent, well-written thread about the aspects of the game they and their friends didn't really like, with specific examples and keeping it respectful to the game, and people either have a go at him, or focus on the fact he used the term "military buddies", completely ignoring all the stuff he actually said about the game. Unbeleivable.
 
You really aren't doing a very good job at helping the community of this game, and it's something I see a lot on these forums. I myself think these threads are incredibly-important, especially for a game that isn't doing particularly well in terms of revenue or player numbers.
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As to the community, ignore the people you perceive as being "toxic", don't engage them at all because IMNSHO if you are firing back at them for being "toxic" you yourself are adding to the toxicity you are "trying" to "combat", and LOOK AROUND AT THE OTHER FORUM POSTS INSTEAD OF THE ONE OR TWO THREADS YOU NOTICE THEM IN.
 
Oh, and maybe toughen up a bit, because not everyone that would question something you say is doing so to be toxic but are genuinely trying to get clarification or figure out your motive.
			
				
	Edited February 20, 2016 by beattlebilly	
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Toughening up seems to be good advice all around. I assume no one is here under duress.	
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OT but I have a question: Why do people in the military HAVE to announce that they are in the military? Do you really think that people care?
 
I am not asking that to be offensive or insulting. it's a genuine question.
 
 
And it's a shame you feel that way, but almost everything you said as negatives, I see as positives. Essentially it's all subjective, so I don't see there being many changes to these aspect of the game you don't like.
			
				
	Edited February 21, 2016 by Mental Surge	
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OT but I have a question: Why do people in the military HAVE to announce that they are in the military? Do you really think that people care?
 
I am not asking that to be offensive or insulting. it's a genuine question.
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In all actuality very few service and prior service members play their enlistment or commission like some sort of crown of laurels.
 
But every zoo has a few knuckle draggers and window lickers.
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OT but I have a question: Why do people in the military HAVE to announce that they are in the military? Do you really think that people care?
 
I am not asking that to be offensive or insulting. it's a genuine question.
 
 
And it's a shame you feel that way, but almost everything you said as negatives, I see as positives. Essentially it's all subjective, so I don't see there being many changes to these aspect of the game you don't like.
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I have an answer. Most don't have to. Even when they do it. Sure, there will always be some that "need to" but most of those that do isn't because they feel a need to display it. It is simply because they are speaking genuinely from a basic reality of their lives. The same way "civilians" might mention their sister/brother/BF/GF/co-worker/classmate. No one assumes someone is bragging that they go to school or has a job. No one thinks twice about it. But for some reason, people assume that if someone mentions they are in the military, it must be because they are trying to put it in lights.
 
 
"military" would be the generalized version. Like going to school or work.
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Umm had he simply said "my friends", I wouldn't have thought twice about it. But instead he needlessly added "from the military" which is no different than saying that they are friends from any other job. THere's a difference from calling them your co-workers, or class mates, than actually disclosing the what it is that know them from needlessly. If someone said; "my friends from university", I would feel the same. Why is that necessary to tell us OTHER than to gloat about it? Whether or not that is the intent, it is easy to get that impression. He could have simply said "my friends". There was no reason to add the last part.
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"Classmate" already implies "friend from school". There is simply no single word in regular use that encompasses "friend from the military". Any that could be used would still be seen as an announcement because it would still provide military info. And, there is really no need to hide the reality of the life he lives. So, he may no be tuned in to specifically not saying it. The military is a whole other world. It can become regular habit to specify which friends. Now, if he was getting real descriptive with his branch of service and job within the branch and where he is stationed, that's when you give him a "/pat on the back" because he obviously needs it. :P
 
This would actually be the answer to the question. (those that aren't engaged in stolen valor). That because it is a whole other world, it can be a habit to specify which world your referring to. So, if you were in the military, you would hear "friends from highscool" or "civilian friend".
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Thank goodness someone gets it. The bad thing is you have people like Scatter Gun that make posts and go on about how they are dropping it or are "over it" yet they feel the need to continue to try to paint you in a bad light or that your "seeking recognition" yet he himself right afterwards decided to say he "had the T-shirt and served as well". Just drop the whole "heroic, justified service-member act" nobody in their right mind is gonna listen to someone in the same sentence doing something he is complaining about. I'd honestly like to think that most people on the interwebs in general can think for themselves. A simple browse through the posts would show you that 2-3 individuals are beating this "military buddy" drum (one of which being hypocritical and letting us know he was in right after trying to "give me a talking"), and nothing I said was specific in job, title, location, rank etc. If someone really wanted to "announce" themselves (and you can use this same example in any career field or status for that matter) I'd like to think most are smart enough to know that more icing on this "seeking recognition" cake are needed than just a basic "military buddy" reference. If you went to college and got a masters, if you make a ridiculous annual income, if your a professional sports star or celebrity, and were "seeking recognition" they would tend to give more details than that. I get that most haven't served but I refuse this idea that you can't even attempt to think about this logically. We are seriously 46 posts into this thread on a video game forum I might add and the 1 steadfast thing that people want to latch onto (again thanks to the same 2-3 individuals that are dead-set on trying to drive this pointless topic home), is attempting to dissect and infer my use or motive on "military buddy". Guess I should feel special? Lol like I said before the way I tend to speak would be "hey this is my school/college buddy" "hey this is my military buddy" etc, I only have a select group of close friends that I would just call "friends" anyone else I tend to classify as the specific "type of buddy" they are to me. If you don't agree with how I talk then that's your opinion but I type how I talk. And bear with me here but as crazy as this sounds I'm not the only one saying this here, the majority of people here are saying similar things, its the 2-3 individuals still beating this drum.
 
The bigger thing that people need to realize before they infer or make their own decisions, is why are these select group of people attaching themselves to this pointless debate (which boils down to them trying to dissect or determine MY use of "military buddy")? Because they are trying to either de-rail the thread/post itself since it doesn't match their perspectives and they can't offer any type of meaningful contribution, they want to discredit me the poster (which is hilarious seeing as this thread is based on opinions and views), or both. For all intents and purposes let's just entertain this idea that I'm "seeking recognition", does that in anyway change the topic or reasoning behind what this post was about? You guys are smart use your own deductions.
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			For a person in the military you sure cant handle other peoples opinions.Guess thats more or less what the military is just a bunch of sheep with one wolf to follow.Anyways before clamming people have multi accounts you should generally look at date created.For combat being to hard for you, Im pretty sure WoW,FF,RIFT,Runescape All have slowed down combat for you t keep up with. Thnx for coming and please dont come back. I don't like hurting the feelings of a grown man but i really dont give a shit :)	
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Perhaps I should have reworded it; Why does it seem likes it's only people in the military who have to announce their profession?
 
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The bigger thing that people need to realize before they infer or make their own decisions, is why are these select group of people attaching themselves to this pointless debate (which boils down to them trying to dissect or determine MY use of "military buddy")? Because they are trying to either de-rail the thread/post itself since it doesn't match their perspectives and they can't offer any type of meaningful contribution, they want to discredit me the poster (which is hilarious seeing as this thread is based on opinions and views), or both. For all intents and purposes let's just entertain this idea that I'm "seeking recognition", does that in anyway change the topic or reasoning behind what this post was about? You guys are smart use your own deductions.
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			Yeah, sadly, ad hominem fallacies are the number 1 internet argumentation tool. Number 2 is making everything into strawmen that burn very easily.	
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			Greetings, Since this thread is more about personal PvP than a civil discussion, it is now locked. Please remember our Code of Conduct and keep your posts on-topic, civil, and constructive, always discussing the post, not the poster. Thank you and enjoy our forums! Team WildStar	
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