115597-people-love-to-hate-wildstar

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			This mostly applies to the face book account and other websites, but the toxic nature of comments towards wildstar astounds me. People love to hate on this game. I have asked myself why multiple times, i dont think its the fact its an MMO, or that its a new ip, or that NCSoft published it. I look at titles like archage and see very little of the same level of hate or toxic behaviour.So why Wildstar specifically? Why are people so keen to bash on this game, what do they get from it, and why follow a game and hate on it if you dont even play it?To me its the equivelent bullying directed towards a studio. Why do you think Wildstar has attracted so many peoples negative attention so effectively, given that its had great reveiws and when you get down to it, is a great fully featured game?	
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I think WildStar slapped a lot of people in the face with how inept they are at video games. WildStar challenged them and they couldn't rise to the occasion; ended up blaming the devs because, hey, we're all the best gamer in the world, it couldn't be us!
 
Also... the bugs. The mountains of bugs. This might not bother some people too much, like myself, but the sheer amount of bugs in this game is a problem on its own; not to mention what these bugs actually affect.	
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I see a lot of hate coming from WOW players. For some people it's easy to walk away from something and start anew. For others, not so much and I would theorize it may be someone who doesn't want to face the fact that WOW has now been around for so long and may no longer be the best thing since slice bread. It's like asking them to smash their personal life paradigm.
 
Some people just can't deal with that kind of change. So hate on the new in order to maintain your perspective and sanity because if what you just invested 10 years is all of a sudden wrong, what else have you gotten wrong in your life? People hate being wrong.	
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I think it's because the game is good enough (great actually) for people to get sucked into and enjoy - only to have all that enjoyment and time invested taken away because Carbine fail to respond and fix issues that seem very basic.
 
I don't agree at all with the theory that players think they are "all the best gamer in the world". It's just extremly frustrating when you play a game, spend hours and hours on learning your class and grinding gear and then fail because of bugs, exploiters in pvp and imbalances. All in all, Carbine have just made themselves look incompetent over the months, and their diffuse way of communicating sure doesn't help. And with time this "toxic" attitude obviously escalated because we kept hearing that it'll all be fixed.. just wait.. just wait.. only to find these fixes actually introduced a whole new array of crap we players had to put up with while waiting for yet another set of "fixes".	
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			It really depends where the negative comment is coming from.  It could be coming from an ex-Wildstar player or from another MMORPG player, it could also just be a troll who like to dance on graves.  From the ex-player it is a similar feeling of hating an ex.  I mean you cared about the person, you invested time, effort, and saw a future together, and then they broke your heart, whether it was a big thing or a bunch of little things that all added up, you had to break up.  You know it might have worked if things were a bit different, you saw (or thought you saw) so much potential but it just didn't work out.  A lot of the anger is internal (why didn't I see it, why did I wait so long), but it is easier to just project those feeling onto the other person.  You don't have those feeling unless you have invested, so Carbine has done some things right to get this.If it is another MMORPG player they do not want their preferred MMO to be hurt by anything new.  They want their game to continue, or for people to create more things just like their game.  Anything different is a threat, and the bigger the potential threat, the more hate will be displayed.  They also probably were negative about Wildstar before launch (to protect themselves and their game), and love to rub it in.	
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People love to hate on every new MMO. Look what happened to SWTOR, or ESO (which deserved it), or FFXIV (which also deserved it). I didn't see much hate for GW2, probably because it was B2P.
 
Point being, WS isn't special in this regard. It's new and people like to bash on new MMOs.	
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I'm pretty sure what you are seeing is the Ex syndrome.
They used to love it and it let them down.	
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I'm pretty sure what you are seeing is the Ex syndrome.
They used to love it and it let them down.
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I'm going to make one of those statements that's either so stupidly wrong or so fundamentally correct that it sounds like a total "duh" thing to say and no one will argue the point one way or the other, here:
 
-Every MMO has its haters, and many times, those haters hate on every MMO minus the one they choose to play, which is the best thing since sliced pickles (or was it cheese...?).  The internet is also full of trolls, who troll for the sake of trolling because they like to troll.
 
-And without no trolls, we don't get no rolls, so this here's a troll bridge.
 
Trolling, flaming, hating:  It's as natural as a newborn babe, and about as articulate too.
 
Now here's the trick:
 
Figuring out who's actually "just trolling" vs. "has-been-hurt-on-some-unjustifiably-deep-emotional-level-and-now-needs-to-'get-back'-at-the-ones-that-caused-them-severe-emotional-pain-by-not-implementing-10-years-worth-of-patches-and-expertise-in-the-first-4-months-after-launch-and-is-now-just-venting-their-imaginarily-well-justified-frustration-because-their-endgame-loot-drop-had-a-combination-of-stat-[A,C,and E]-as-opposed-to-[A,B, and C], OMG, WTF, I QUIT!" vs. legitimate criticism that just happened to be poorly phrased on an internet post because vocal tone doesn't translate well through written text.	
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I think WildStar slapped a lot of people in the face with how inept they are at video games. WildStar challenged them and they couldn't rise to the occasion; ended up blaming the devs because, hey, we're all the best gamer in the world, it couldn't be us!
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/eyeroll
 
Hard to believe Wildstar has a reputation for toxic community, what with this shining example of civility and poise.
 
All MMOs get haters. There has been only one MMO that was loved across the board, and that was City of Heroes.
 
Ironically, that love did not save the game from NCsoft's wrath and the game got killed.
 
Shame, really. It was such a great game.
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Another CoH player! Have you heard of City of Titans?
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Another CoH player! Have you heard of City of Titans?
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			I tend to agree that alot of this is the feeling of being let down or betrayed. I think the real trolls dont fit into this catagory, but for me at least and probably alot of other players i tend to agree with this idea that wildstar is just great enough to get you invested, and just flawed enough, in enough key areas to cause you to make the hard decision to let go.I know i personally fight with myself to play this game, i can think of so many things i want to do, but at the same time i can think of something stopping me. IE: i want to play Sabotage/daggerstone pass and warplots, they look fun, but i cant becuase no one cues for them due to a broken system that needs fixing. I want to raid, but cant of x,y bug or time sink etc: I disagree though with the idea that every MMO has its haters and trolls. Sure every game has its haters, but not on this scale. I look at ESO and i look at Archage, these games dont get the same level of virile and firvire hatred that wildstar exhibits in the comment section of every page. Wildstars face book is a great example of this, nearly every second post is hate filled. I dont see that level of hatred anywhere else, especially considering how few people actually bought this game (estimates of about 500 000 copies) compared to Archages 2million registered accounts and ESO 1 million or so.Its a little perplexing.	
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@damo2113  Are you sure you're not just looking at Wildstar through a different lens than the other MMOs?  I don't know so much about Archeage, but I remember very vividly how vicious people were towards ESO (and probably still are).  I played that game all the way to end game, and the whole time people both in and out of the game were just constantly slamming it left and right.  People constantly said things like "ESO NEEDS to FAIL!" and all sorts of weirdball crap about it.  ESO might not be getting hit as hard by it these days now that Wildstar is on the "fail troll" radar, but believe me, it was damned brutal during the first few months after that game released.
 
This trend with the trolls bashing Wildstar will pass very soon.  As soon as the next big MMO is announced they'll move on to relentlessly talk crap about that game, whatever it may be.	
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@damo2113  Are you sure you're not just looking at Wildstar through a different lens than the other MMOs?  I don't know so much about Archeage, but I remember very vividly how vicious people were towards ESO (and probably still are).  I played that game all the way to end game, and the whole time people both in and out of the game were just constantly slamming it left and right.  People constantly said things like "ESO NEEDS to FAIL!" and all sorts of weirdball crap about it.  ESO might not be getting hit as hard by it these days now that Wildstar is on the "fail troll" radar, but believe me, it was damned brutal during the first few months after that game released.
 
This trend with the trolls bashing Wildstar will pass very soon.  As soon as the next big MMO is announced they'll move on to relentlessly talk crap about that game, whatever it may be.
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On a personal level, based on reading forums for pretty much every MMO out there - you could have titled this post "people love to hate" and left it at that, and it would have said the same thing.
 
Again as I have mentioned in another post since these keep coming up, I think this displays how we as gamers are passionate about our hobbies. If an author kills off a main character in my favourite book, I may write about it and argue for / against it with other readers. If an author kills off a main character in a book I've never read before and have no emotional investment in .. well, my time is too valuable to argue for that one. Now, this doesn't count every person who is making these sorts of statements because lets face it sometimes it's just 'cool' to hop on the hate bandwagon, but the time to really worry is when no one cares. 
 
I'm not excusing the behaviour, but I think we need to lead by example. There's so much focus on what everyone else is doing. 
 
Again just personal feedback. 	
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IMO this thread is the EXACT reason for the hate
 
to ANY of the W* regulars, if you want changes AT ALL to accesibilty to the game, you are bad and bad at games.
 
i can only play doll house so long, sure i may not be a top tier raider, but wanting to do dungeons at level 20 in less than 2 hours makes me bad at games?
 
whatever	
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Chua just leave this here: https://twitter.com/NekoNova/status/520226654611046400
 
 
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IMO this thread is the EXACT reason for the hate
 
to ANY of the W* regulars, if you want changes AT ALL to accesibilty to the game, you are bad and bad at games.
 
i can only play doll house so long, sure i may not be a top tier raider, but wanting to do dungeons at level 20 in less than 2 hours makes me bad at games?
 
whatever
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			it just gets old,people think that myself and others "white Knight" the game(ludicris term but for sake of arguement i will use it), but we are suffering with many of the same things you are(suffering being subjective of course), but the patience level that some can show compared to others is staggering	
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alright you win Chua , you win
hands  up backing away, 3 month battle i give up
 
server merges, megaservers, constant hate on every social media on the internet
but youre right
 
the game is FINE nothing needs to change everything is peachy
casuals dont mean shit in the market no need to cater to them at all
 
the sand castle is yours, but when the tide of unhappy customers, bitter reviews, and people told to get rekt by you and your white knight crew erode said castle, i hope you remember when sitting in the puddle of wet sand
 
that WE TRIED to ask for changes	
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alright you win Chua , you win
hands  up backing away, 3 month battle i give up
 
server merges, megaservers, constant hate on every social media on the internet
but youre right
 
the game is FINE nothing needs to change everything is peachy
casuals dont mean shit in the market no need to cater to them at all
 
the sand castle is yours, but when the tide of unhappy customers, bitter reviews, and people told to get rekt by you and your white knight crew erode said castle, i hope you remember when sitting in the puddle of wet sand
 
that WE TRIED to ask for changes
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nevermind, i quit.
 
wish luck wildstar and crew, even you chua
cheers	
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not have the patience? look at your post history,
1, this is the second time ive coaxed you out of charcter
and 2, the issues havent changed in 3 months
my complaints havent changed, my wishes havent changed
i wasnt around for beta so i wont even use that argument
 
how long , in the 2014 game market is a reasonable amount of time for a game to get basic systems right?
not posting any arguments here, i want to know in your opinion what time line is acceptable.
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That's a moot question, because there's no such thing as "getting it right".
The Gaming market is by far the most impossible market to please or "get right", and that's coming from someone who works in the industry for several years.
This market changes faster then the day&night cycle.
All you can do is bring something out, get feedback and adapt.
And that's exactly what Carbine is doing. They are listening, adapting and making changes to the game. Unfortunately this takes time.
 
And "basic systems" is also a subjective approach.
What you consider basic, might be totally obsolete or unneeded for someone else.
So really, what do you want to hear? or what are you even aiming at.
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caught that before my edit, look im sorry i wasted your time, i dont dislike you as a person, or carbine as a company, wildstar as a game, NCsoft as a publisher.
im jusr sad and frustrated that such a glorious IP might not see its full day in the sun and i DONT PUT THAT ON CARBINE
the reason it seems i have a personal vandetta agaisnt you chua is becuase you are the most noticeable poster of the "its ok its fine" crew
 
im upset that perhaps the early feedback that could have prevented the outcome were seeing could have been prevented if people of your opinion werent so outspoken or perhaps unjustly listened too.
 
i dont dislike you personally or anyone , honestly its the internet, theres no time for that
i just think that if perhaps some of the early "not so popular" opinions hadnt been shouted down by you and your ilke wed be in a better place
 
i fully agree that may just be blame shifting, wishful thinking
 
i dont dislike you chua, i dislike the school of though you originally associtiated yourself with.
and it appears to be a school of thought that still to this day runs this board
i tried to delete the post but you caught it
 
bottom line, i think Wildstar was a great idea, and could have been a great game.
but hearing so many "ya ya ya awesomes" and tuning out the "hold on a minute heres" killed it
this is my last post, sorry for being long, wish yall luck in the future, cheers
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they simply do not know what they want.
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			i realize olivar RP's on the forums for fun, and i encourage fun, but i must say i very much like it when he posts out of character.	
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caught that before my edit, look im sorry i wasted your time, i dont dislike you as a person, or carbine as a company, wildstar as a game, NCsoft as a publisher.
im jusr sad and frustrated that such a glorious IP might not see its full day in the sun and i DONT PUT THAT ON CARBINE
the reason it seems i have a personal vandetta agaisnt you chua is becuase you are the most noticeable poster of the "its ok its fine" crew
 
im upset that perhaps the early feedback that could have prevented the outcome were seeing could have been prevented if people of your opinion werent so outspoken or perhaps unjustly listened too.
 
i dont dislike you personally or anyone , honestly its the internet, theres no time for that
i just think that if perhaps some of the early "not so popular" opinions hadnt been shouted down by you and your ilke wed be in a better place
 
i fully agree that may just be blame shifting, wishful thinking
 
i dont dislike you chua, i dislike the school of though you originally associtiated yourself with.
and it appears to be a school of thought that still to this day runs this board
i tried to delete the post but you caught it
 
bottom line, i think Wildstar was a great idea, and could have been a great game.
but hearing so many "ya ya ya awesomes" and tuning out the "hold on a minute heres" killed it
this is my last post, sorry for being long, wish yall luck in the future, cheers
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I would say the reason is a challenge level....
 
Look who plays mmorpg nowadays.... most of players have less than 5 years mmorpg experience, they dont have a clue how mmorpg looked like before... and how mmorpg games looks like now? You getting cap level within few days, then you farm trivial dungeons to gather tokens for which you can buy raiding gear t1... then you go to raids t1 being already geared up in t1 gear, so you are already overgeared and you cleaning them...and then developers release update with better token items and the whole story repeat...
 
Problem is not with this game but with players who got used to getting gear for free, being all the time overgeared in compare to content they encounter...how many people go straight into raids when they are in "greenies" ? 2-3% of hard core radiers? all the rest wait until their gear is significantly better than minimum dungeon requirements....
 
This attitude has been builded over the years by blizzard and repeated by every other company when releasing new mmorpg...and it is very hard nowadyas to find players who remember old,good times of Vanilla WoW,EQ....players who get used to hard core content, players who knows that to achieve anything you need to work hard and put a lot of efford before you finally succed... modern kids who grow up playing WoW Cataclysm or Wrath of the LK dont know this kind of stuff....they got used to getting "success" by just paying subscription or using item shop,....... thats why games like WIldstar who try to come back to challenging games will not succed anymore, there is no audience....and thats why games like this become flamed by modern kids who think that when playing the game and paying for it they suppsoed get guaranted success...	
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This happens with every MMORPG ( at least the ones I have played over the last 13+ years ).  Even back on the EQ forums when the game was new, there were "haters".
 
There are just more players for this Hobby now.  Many of them seem to float from game to game looking for something that can call home.
 
Instead of realizing that all of these games will have their problems ( many of which are the same from game to game ) people tend to buy into the mass hysteria that MMORPG "X" (where X = current new title ) will be that panacea to heal all their woes.
 
It's not going to stop.  Just ignore it if you like the product you are playing.	
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			Its a band wagon thing honestly. You know a game is popular when there are a ton of people hating on it. You don't see this in games like ArchAge or ESO. Wildstar stands out and this is what happens. Just ignore it and move on.	
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I would say the reason is a challenge level....
 
Look who plays mmorpg nowadays.... most of players have less than 5 years mmorpg experience, they dont have a clue how mmorpg looked like before... and how mmorpg games looks like now? You getting cap level within few days, then you farm trivial dungeons to gather tokens for which you can buy raiding gear t1... then you go to raids t1 being already geared up in t1 gear, so you are already overgeared and you cleaning them...and then developers release update with better token items and the whole story repeat...
 
Problem is not with this game but with players who got used to getting gear for free, being all the time overgeared in compare to content they encounter...how many people go straight into raids when they are in "greenies" ? 2-3% of hard core radiers? all the rest wait until their gear is significantly better than minimum dungeon requirements....
 
This attitude has been builded over the years by blizzard and repeated by every other company when releasing new mmorpg...and it is very hard nowadyas to find players who remember old,good times of Vanilla WoW,EQ....players who get used to hard core content, players who knows that to achieve anything you need to work hard and put a lot of efford before you finally succed... modern kids who grow up playing WoW Cataclysm or Wrath of the LK dont know this kind of stuff....they got used to getting "success" by just paying subscription or using item shop,....... thats why games like WIldstar who try to come back to challenging games will not succed anymore, there is no audience....and thats why games like this become flamed by modern kids who think that when playing the game and paying for it they suppsoed get guaranted success...
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it just gets old,
 
people think that myself and others "white Knight" the game(ludicris term but for sake of arguement i will use it), but we are suffering with many of the same things you are(suffering being subjective of course), but the patience level that some can show compared to others is staggering
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I think WildStar slapped a lot of people in the face with how inept they are at video games. WildStar challenged them and they couldn't rise to the occasion; ended up blaming the devs because, hey, we're all the best gamer in the world, it couldn't be us!
 
Also... the bugs. The mountains of bugs. This might not bother some people too much, like myself, but the sheer amount of bugs in this game is a problem on its own; not to mention what these bugs actually affect.
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The answer is simple.  People forget how to talk on the Internet.
 
Seriously, if you want improvements, you don't fly off the hinge with rage.  That person screaming that receipts past expiration at Target are bullshit aren't going to get the policy to change.  For some reason, the second people get on the Internet, they forget how to actually talk to other human beings.  Books are written on this subject, it's one of the most discussed psychological phenomena of the past twenty years.  But it's true; people who might be perfectly decent in person can turn into horrible gutter-spawn once their words are turned into text with the Internet's relative anonymity.
 
Why Wildstar in particular?  I didn't think it was Wildstar in particular.  ESO is taking almost the exact same drubbing right now from all sides.  In fact, WoW has been enduring exactly the same hate for a decade now.  People thought that game was going to tank in its first year considering all its server issues, bugs, etc.  Despite still being a billion dollar a year franchise that everyone's still chasing like a will o' the wisp through the woods, WoW has been "failing" pretty much ever since Burning Crusade, and was "failing" right up until the release of Naxx.
 
If I had to put my finger on something though, it's that tagline "the devs are listening".  There's a sense that, alone in the MMORPG world, Carbine's development team actually listens and responds.  They've actually proven that they do.  So people figure that they need to get the word to Carbine so the game fixes whatever their particular egregious error is.
 
Unfortunately, the Internet.  For some reason, people completely forget how they talk to people in the real world.  Screaming abuse at Carbine, calling out the game's imminent demise, flooding their comments section with vitriol about their RNG, that's meant to be a way for them to think, "Well, they can't ignore THAT, can they?"  That's even present on the forums.  Well constructed and well meaning criticism and suggestions are rare here.  Everything has to come with panic or rage, mostly because people don't know how to make good ideas be taken seriously because they're just good ideas.  Volume and anger are, for some reason, seen as having real currency on the Internet, and nowhere else.
 
I don't get it.  I've had my problems with Carbine, NCSoft, and the game despite loving it, but I've never felt it necessary to start raging about something.  God only knows where the reaction comes from, but come it does.  Just a strange combination of the Internet making people feel like they'll be better heard if they're vile, and Carbine promising that they listen.	
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Please don't kill me when I say this...I just want to get this off my chest and I won't bother anyone with my stupidity any further. Who knows someone might find my annoyance funny..
 
I would much rather the phrasing be "The Devs are reading" since...that's really more of what they're doing...	
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I think a lot of the hate was due to the lack of communication on the forums by the devs. (Which from what I can tell has gotten exponentially better). For awhile, people's concerns weren't being addressed, major issues persisted with no response from Carbine, meanwhile Rey and Frost were yukking it up on Nexus Report. 
 
It looks like Carbine has pulled a 180 and there has been a continuous flow of communication which I am very appreciative of. I am feeling hope for the game once again. 	
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I honestly think people like to hate this game because it's the first game that is good enough to rival games like wow and people who have invested so much time into that game don't want something to compete with it.
Just my 2 cents
 
And yes I know plenty of the the complainers either don't care about this or never played wow and for them it comes down to lack of communication and people just jumping on the bandwagon to hate on Wildstar.
Nothing in this game deserves the amount of stuff I have seen on the Internet, it's not like the game is unplayable, or that there is no date upcoming for any fixes.	
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From what i've observed of people around me:
 
- Game is not WoW enough, hate it (wannabe WoW)
- Game is too much like WoW, hate it (WoW clone)
- Game is too colorful, hate it (childs game)
- Players leaving game after a few weeks, hate it (game dying)
 
€:
 
- Feature X is missing, hate it (studio released an incomplete game)
- Player ran into a bug maybe the first and only time, hate it (game is full of bugs)
 
(to be continued)
 
Fun fact: most of the hate i've noticed came from WoW players, reddit- and 4chan chumps (i know, not all of these are but a lot of them...).
I haven't seen that much people hating because of bugs because it's obvious that carbine does fix them (also that there's a PTR is a massive act of transparency here).
 
 
Somewhat related and really worth a read: http://www.wired.com/2014/10/trolls-will-always-win/ (original post here, but may vanish soon)	
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Every MMO I've played since CoH has had people who will go on long and detailed reasons about why the game sucks, and is going to die with in a month.
 
On CoH it was a monthly thing, that the game was going to have the plug pulled any moment, from 2004 to 2008 when I was active, people said the game was dying and would be shut down with in weeks. Yet it lasted until 2011 before going the F2P route.
 
The simple fact is that every MMO no matter how popular has people posting somewhere that the game sucks and is dead.	
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Don't you see, its pretty obvious actually its the 6 steps of "Obsessive Ex Syndrome" just in this case its lonely folks that only know gaming.
1) Courtship - That HYPE.
2) Relationship - Plays the game.
3) Break-up - "I quit thread".
4) Stalking - What you're reading on Facebook.
5) Threats - More Facebook.
6) Violence - More.. Facebook..
 
EDIT: Phyzix beat me to it! I really outta read past the OP.	
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Fun fact: most of the hate i've noticed came from WoW players, reddit- and 4chan chumps (i know, not all of these are but a lot of them...).
 
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I honestly think people like to hate this game because it's the first game that is good enough to rival games like wow and people who have invested so much time into that game don't want something to compete with it.
Just my 2 cents
 
And yes I know plenty of the the complainers either don't care about this or never played wow and for them it comes down to lack of communication and people just jumping on the bandwagon to hate on Wildstar.
Nothing in this game deserves the amount of stuff I have seen on the Internet, it's not like the game is unplayable, or that there is no date upcoming for any fixes.
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I see this line of bull@#&* stated a couple of times from several people in this thread. Prove that most of the hate is coming from WOW players, a lot of the reddit and other third party sites that have turned against wildstar are the same fanboys that were attacking ESO and what not and talking about how awesome Wildstar was going to be in BETA and one month into release.
 
The game aimed at the hardcore crowd and the true hardcore crowd of what there is not much left in this game are mostly douches. 
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			They set themselves up for failure not sure why everyone is so shocked by this negativity.	
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I see this line of bull@#&* stated a couple of times from several people in this thread. Prove that most of the hate is coming from WOW players, a lot of the reddit and other third party sites that have turned against wildstar are the same fanboys that were attacking ESO and what not and talking about how awesome Wildstar was going to be in BETA and one month into release.
 
The game aimed at the hardcore crowd and the true hardcore crowd of what there is not much left in this game are mostly douches. 
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No I get it, it is other games players that are beating on this game.
 
I guess there was never a vitriolic community from Wildstar that abused bugs, exploited PVP match making/class imbalances/gear imbalance, PVP community that would farm battlegrounds 4-0 for 26 minutes in temple, exploit missing invisible barriers to spawn camp in the 3rd BG map, no all of this stuff is not real and everything being beaten up on Wildstar is being done by people from other games. Because they would have nothing better to do than to beat up on Wildstar.
 
The reason why some people especially on Massively seem to be enjoying the apparent demise of this games is because the vitriolic fanboys from this game that attacked MMOs made people who would perhaps be neutral to this game get upset.
 
Obviously you notice different hate than I do, but I believe a lot of the W* hate is self inflicted from (a) making promises they did not plan to deliver on (b) attracting not the nicest of communities in the game. I mean everyone that watched the real Karate Kid movie, is happy when Daniel San defeats the Cobra Kai guys because they are d.bags, unfortunately a lot of the wildstar community as seen as being those Cobra Kai guys, you better sweep the leg.	
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On a personal level, based on reading forums for pretty much every MMO out there - you could have titled this post "people love to hate" and left it at that, and it would have said the same thing.
 
Again as I have mentioned in another post since these keep coming up, I think this displays how we as gamers are passionate about our hobbies. If an author kills off a main character in my favourite book, I may write about it and argue for / against it with other readers. If an author kills off a main character in a book I've never read before and have no emotional investment in .. well, my time is too valuable to argue for that one. Now, this doesn't count every person who is making these sorts of statements because lets face it sometimes it's just 'cool' to hop on the hate bandwagon, but the time to really worry is when no one cares. 
 
I'm not excusing the behaviour, but I think we need to lead by example. There's so much focus on what everyone else is doing. 
 
Again just personal feedback. 
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I do recognize and value the feedback from players who point out bugs and game design flaws. And sometimes I also think using the slogan 'The devs are listening' was like a dinner bell for every drama queen non-player troll who's ever made a ragequit thread on another game and was told by the community to not let the door hit them on the keister on the way out. It's like it's giving them the gratification they never got the first time.
 
Hey! Hey over here! Where's my key lighting? Ah. AHEM."YOUR GAME IS SUX! GAME IS DEAD!"
/throws a handfull of glitter in the air before pirouetting off the stage
/watches from behind the curtains
STILLL GOT IT!	
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This just ran through my timeline: https://twitter.com/kirkhamilton/status/520750364572672000
 
It seems like all that hatred has nothing to do with the games at all but some people who think they're anonymous on the internet and vent all their hate at some place. I wish this wouldn't happen. (again, read that post from Seriouspony, it's about all of us)	
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Statistically speaking nobody gives a squat about Wild Star. There are a few people, numbered in the what hundreds to be nice? Who go out of their way to post negative things about the game. Please note I don't count facebork into this as it is useless. Now considering that we potentially have hundreds of people venting about their dissatisfaction of the game. It is rather a small number compared to other games. Personally I think that the white knight bit is as bad as the vitriolic comments one sees about what ever game we are hearing about.
 
What we need is to instead of posting some negativity in what ever sort. Is to find the current thread on what ever defect we have found in the game and add to it.
 
 
Continuing to make ourselves feel better by belittling others is of no help to the game...	
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Reading through all the reasons why so many people think WS is getting hate is very funny, simply because most of them are wrong.  Its very clear why WS is hated on:
 
1. WS pushed a hardcore mentality in their marketing and attracted a lot of hardcore players and the 'doucheyness' that they bring with them
 
2. WS was designed difficult in Elder game with timers/crazy attunements and such.  MANY players hated this and left blaming the hardcore mentality too time consuming and frustrating
 
3. PVP had issues, war plots and other big pvp areas just don't work
 
4.  On these very forums, back 2 months ago the white knights were belittling the regular players on a regular basis (go ahead look back in the forums its everywhere) calling anyone who isn't hardcore a filthy dirty casual.  This made a lot of people leave because, and lets face it- WS was supporting the hardcore players and not the common players.
 
END RESULT  OF ABOVE = Toxic Community
 
Bugs?  Bugs have nothing to do with people leaving imo.  Other than the PVP fails bugs haven't been all that bad.
 
Anyways, anyone who has been around knows the above are the main reasons for so much hate against WS that's coming from FORMER subscribers.
 
All that said, hopefully they fix things, but a bad first impression can be deadly.	
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A little realism in here, before you start blaming anyone that's advised people to have manners, and post things in a clear and constructive fashion....
 
First off, Beta players had Carbines ear. And if they did their job, and lets be very honest here... beta is a job, then they submitted thousands upon thousands of bug reports, and feedback about the game. Carbine had to make difficult decisions about what was feasible to change prior to an internal release date, and what was not. They made the changes they could, and hoped for the best. Especially in terms of the way the release would be treated and how much time they might have to address bugs.
 
They miscalculated. They screwed up.
 
They compounded that by attempting a massively aggressive content release schedule, without having the amount of QA needed to support what they wanted to do.
 
Again, they screwed up.
 
By the second drop they had glaringly obvious problems. RNG, Rune slots, Bugs. And they made a choice.
They opted to drop the aggressive content schedule and replace it with something that would allow them to make use of the amount of staff they were able to support.
Then they set about trying to overhaul aspects of the game, while trying to address every bug that could be reproduced.
 
Now. Heres the reality part for you.
It takes time. Its not going to happen overnight. I realize that you think its everyone's fault that ever said a kind word about Carbine. That ever defended the developers of this game as if *gasp* they were actual living, human beings worthy of the simple common courtesy you would expect of anyone in any form of communication with you. But it's not.
 
It was an overly ambitious schedule, and a mistake. And yes, carbine owned up to it.
It happens. People get excited, they take on a project with what seems like a completely feasible timeline, only to find out that its not feasible, they don't have the resources necessary to pull it off, and they are in a bit of a spot. So you do what really don't want to do.
 
Own up to it. And turn around and work your ass off to make it right. And that's what they did.
 
The school of thought that a lot of us seem to have is.... more mature than many of you seem capable of.
You present your problems, your thoughts, and your ideas in a constructive, well thought out post. You find people that have had similar experiences, and you collaborate with them to suggest solutions to those problems. You leave your flame wars, and your insults at home, because they are completely counter productive. And then you wait.
 
Yes, I realize that's difficult. But in this case its all you can do. Because the developers need time to do the work. To fix it. Regardless of whether you think it should have been addressed sooner, it wasn't. It is what it is. And know they are working in a new direction. You give them time to actually do that, and then you decide if the new direction is something you want to follow.
 
You think Wildstar was a great idea.
I still think it is.
You think its a school of thought that runs this board, yes it is. Its called common courtesy and respect. Even if something horrific and bad happens. Because ultimately this is a video game, the moderators and developers are people, and it isn't that hard to take time to cool off before you vent your anger on someone in text form.
 
If you really are that ready to give up. Then give up. Nobody is forcing anyone to be here. Or to play this game.
Its entertainment.
 
And I'm not willing to textually eviscerate the developers because of a rocky couple of months.
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Why do you think Wildstar has attracted so many peoples negative attention so effectively, given that its had great reveiws and when you get down to it, is a great fully featured game?
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This mostly applies to the face book account and other websites, but the toxic nature of comments towards wildstar astounds me. People love to hate on this game. I have asked myself why multiple times, i dont think its the fact its an MMO, or that its a new ip, or that NCSoft published it. I look at titles like archage and see very little of the same level of hate or toxic behaviour.
 
So why Wildstar specifically? Why are people so keen to bash on this game, what do they get from it, and why follow a game and hate on it if you dont even play it?
To me its the equivelent bullying directed towards a studio. 
 
Why do you think Wildstar has attracted so many peoples negative attention so effectively, given that its had great reveiws and when you get down to it, is a great fully featured game?
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This is precisely why. The game has not met the expectations from early reviews. End game content is almost non-existent and the content that is there happens to be extremely buggy (raids). Though Carbine is addressing this issue, a lot of people have the attitude of "Too little, too late."
 
I'm waiting out to see if that quote is true or not. However, I understand the complaints.
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There are always haters in every game out there, may it be MMO, F2P, P2P, Single Player Games or matchmaking multiplayer games. Haters exist regardless how good or bad a game is.
Though, each hater have their reason to hate, but why express them so extreme? Sure we have opinions and thats cool, but why be so extreme i wonder?	
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