107953-the-nexus-report-nerfing-the-attunement-page-5

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Hey Folks,
 
This discussion is great but I do need to remind you all to please try to keep things civil between one another. It's cool that not everyone has the same opinions, and please do keep talking about them here so long as you don't start making it personal.
 
Thank you
- Team WildStar 	
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I've ignored it so far because I was too lazy to retort but:
 
Absolutely disagree with your "no deaths" requirement idea.
What you don't seem to understand is that the problem is any kind of barrier that literally forces you to restart the entire instance after a single mistake.
 
That is not good design.
You can have "no deaths on boss X" requirements that allow you to wipe and retry that boss as soon as someone dies.
Redoing all of SSM because you lagged or your healer has a cold and had to sneeze at the wrong time?
No. Bad. Stop arguing for it.
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There are certainly some things that silver dungeons teach you that apply to raids. Mainly dealing with pressure and not making mistakes.
 
To get silver dungeons you have to play pretty flawless. Some dungeons allow a couple of wipes (SSM allows loads), but in general you can't make too many mistakes.
In that regard raid bosses are very similar.
 
Brief comparison with X-89.
Getting a small bomb is quite stressful. If you place it in a bad location, you screw up the raid for 19 other people. Yes, you can just try again, but which guild will happily spend 2 hours on the same boss because people keep messing up? Equally if 2-3 of your DPS die before he gets below 90% you might as well call a wipe. You need 20 people to be on top of their game to kill him.
 
Getting silver in dungeons requires 5 people to be on top of their game. In that sense it's a very nice preparation for raids.
 
But if numbers are dwindling and this is the best solution to increase them again, I'm all for it.	
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			Sorry Chillia, i got carried away :( That was the most epic sentence ever that got deleted within 5sec.	
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Wasting players time is whats the problem. 
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There are certainly some things that silver dungeons teach you that apply to raids. Mainly dealing with pressure and not making mistakes.
 
To get silver dungeons you have to play pretty flawless. Some dungeons allow a couple of wipes (SSM allows loads), but in general you can't make too many mistakes.
In that regard raid bosses are very similar.
 
Brief comparison with X-89.
Getting a small bomb is quite stressful. If you place it in a bad location, you screw up the raid for 19 other people. Yes, you can just try again, but which guild will happily spend 2 hours on the same boss because people keep messing up? Equally if 2-3 of your DPS die before he gets below 90% you might as well call a wipe. You need 20 people to be on top of their game to kill him.
 
Getting silver in dungeons requires 5 people to be on top of their game. In that sense it's a very nice preparation for raids.
 
But if numbers are dwindling and this is the best solution to increase them again, I'm all for it.
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And here is what I was saying all along. The original argument makes no sense because you can easily make dungeons, the only really challenging and fun part of attunement, still challenging. I'm not advocating "no deaths", you would need to invoke the intent of what the timers tried to do, not make a separate and harder hurdle than the one that exist.  I would think no timer but you need to do the optional and challenges for silver, one of which comes to mind Aetheros with his don't get hit by tornados. No timer just challenges and optionals. But that's really not what the argument is about quote:
 
"Now people can do things when they can instead of when their group is around"
 
That's what this is all about. Players are trying to PUG content not meant to be PUG and are upset it can't be pugged. So let's cut the crap. Don't shit in my salad and call it a chestnut. This is about not being able to pug.  Remove attunements and let's call this WoW 2.0. Thank you.
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Petition my ass. The games population dropped so severely that they had no choice. Now people can do things when they can instead of when their group is around. This move may have just saved the game. But by all means, go ahead and "petition" to your little hearts content. Keep trying to push obviously failed concepts and see what that gets you. Players voted with their wallets and now carbine is listening.
 
     3. Makes any group that forms disband as soon as a death occurs and further drives players away from the game.
 
Maybe the vision for Wildstar was wrong and players want a challenge, not a second job.
 
And here's what actually happens: Screw this. *Leaves and takes friends with them*
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Right now the No dying idea is not a good idea, to me anyway.....
 
Go look at the healer forums and the heal bugs going on.." flagging pvp" bug to land a heal. Heals hitting everyone but the targeted area and only way to fix it is to flag yourself and sometimes that is not even working.
 
 I can see it now. The heal bug hits right on last boss running for gold. The tank dies because of these bugs ( healer is spamming her pvp flag off an on to just land a heal)  and the forum rage will be so immence extra mods would have to be called in.
 
Maybe after they fix those and things are smoother and settled in that could be an alternative... but now right now to many variables due to bugs to make that a given.	
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You have 10-15min time to down the boss per try. That can be focused i'm fine. But when you asked 3 different bosses (or 5) in dungeon to be completely flawless, that was more than 30min for some dungeons, that is another story.
And the fact that it's just beginning of everything, and you greet majority population based with solid silver dungeon wall that only able to pass if you dedicated enough, if you have solid another 4 friends, that's the hard part.
 
Sure may be if the game gone 1 yrs time, with people become solid community, with this kind of attument may be acceptable but not a new dinged 3months old game. It's just doesnt work, and it already killed many guilds/players.
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How do you know this had *anything* to do with population? And if it did, making design decisions *just* to keep players means they aren't necessarily the best ones for gameplay.
 
If you're playing an MMO as a solo player then you are sure to be frustrated. Good. That was supposed to be an indicator that you need to put together a team and play with them consistently to have success in group content.
 
But no, players have been trained so that they can do *anything* in an MMO as a solo player without regard for others in any way. WildStar was a promise against that notion, but in fact yesterday's announcement puts it squarely on that path.
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Right now the No dying idea is not a good idea, to me anyway.....
 
Go look at the healer forums and the heal bugs going on.." flagging pvp" bug to land a heal. Heals hitting everyone but the targeted area and only way to fix it is to flag yourself and sometimes that is not even working.
 
 I can see it now. The heal bug hits right on last boss running for gold. The tank dies because of these bugs ( healer is spamming her pvp flag off an on to just land a heal)  and the forum rage will be so immence extra mods would have to be called in.
 
Maybe after they fix those and things are smoother and settled in that could be an alternative... but now right now to many variables due to bugs to make that a given.
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not all of them
 still happening	
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If you make the game that frustrate 95% of population based, you're doing something seriously wrong. Nitch game, Hardcore game or not.
 
190 guilds both NA/EU had done 1/6GA. Assumed 30 rosters each guild meaning, around 5.5k ppl, assumed 2x ppl able to raid with 0/6 meaning around 20k ppl able to see raid content approximately. Assume wildstar has like 500k subs that was less than 5% population that able to see the content within 3 months mark. I leveled to 50 in a week at comfortbly pace so 3 months are reasonable timeframe. If wildstar has 1M subs, the % even drop further lol. That's just show how many people cant complete the task.
 
There are more people that got feded up with this attument. Some of them just straight unsub and quit the game. They dont even QQ on forum.
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I met a lot of my guildies and players here on WS for the first time. Officers were drilling in from day one the attunement process and how this needed to work for everyone to raid. There was never really any set group that is the surprising thing. What I find surprising by your comment is you mention a solid group, and I can tell ya this, every guildy  that thought they needed a solid group or wanted to run with a solid group, dropped ship a while back. The reason? You don't need a solid group its a guild effort and those that dropped off really could not grasp that concept. You don't wait for "your tank" "your healer", you grab other guildies, YOU TAKE INITIATIVE, and YOU SAY: "so and so ran with me the other day we did this, so we're going to go back and I'll show you guys and we'll try to get further". That's how its done. It's a guild effort, and if there is no leadership in your guild willing to do that either you do it or you leave and find someone that will.
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And here is what I was saying all along. The original argument makes no sense because you can easily make dungeons, the only really challenging and fun part of attunement, still challenging. I'm not advocating "no deaths", you would need to invoke the intent of what the timers tried to do, not make a separate and harder hurdle than the one that exist.  I would think no timer but you need to do the optional and challenges for silver, one of which comes to mind Aetheros with his don't get hit by tornados. No timer just challenges and optionals. But that's really not what the argument is about quote:
 
"Now people can do things when they can instead of when their group is around"
 
That's what this is all about. Players are trying to PUG content not meant to be PUG and are upset it can't be pugged. So let's cut the crap. Don't shit in my salad and call it a chestnut. This is about not being able to pug.  Remove attunements and let's call this WoW 2.0. Thank you.
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I'm trying to find the *actual* solution to this…
 
By removing timers from medal runs, for players who are yet to be attuned…. then tweaking attunement so that Gold is required (no deaths) this accomplishes 2 things:
 
Removing the arbitrary timers that everyone was arguing have nothing to do with skill	Assures skill is the primary driver to success, as there;s no way to carry someone through a dungeon who can't get out of red and die even once
 
This solution seems more true to the original promised vision for WildStar, so I feel it's important that Carbine consider upping the skill requirement, not lower it.
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there are only that many guilds doing raids now because of attunement, and because pugging is not successful. Remove attunements your problem is solved. You want to zerg end game. The let's do that. Heck it worked for WoW,
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If there is other contents that people can enjoy while waiting for main group to come and rescue them in silver dungeon, i would be ok. But now in combine with bad itemization, nerfed loot drops making adventures/dungeons loots almost pointless to get. Nothing outside Vet dungeon to do apart from stupid dailies. When there is no reward no candies with too hard attument, people will just give up the game. I knew there are people who can withstand the heat and now they're able to raid, GOOD FOR THEM! But you have to slab your head and see in a bigger picture that there are more that failed doing so. As said by the numbers above post.
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Dungeons are meant to be puged, Raids are meant to be a team. That's how things are and how people expect them. Carbine tried to change that and it bit them in the ass. "Might as well just remove attunement now!" Really? Grow up. They just got rid of one very annoying time consuming part that was helping to cause their player base to die off.
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I see no harm in that to be honest. WoW doesnt fail because they allow people straight to raid. Beside they have the ilv gear check as well but not this strict attument.
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Dungeons are meant to be puged, Raids are meant to be a team. That's how things are and how people expect them. Carbine tried to change that and it bit them in the ass. "Might as well just remove attunement now!" Really? Grow up. They just got rid of one very annoying time consuming part that was helping to cause their player base to die off.
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Huh? Where are the rules that say dungeons must be puggable? No, they shouldn't. Especially in WildStar, on veteran mode, they are decidedly TEAM content, not solo content. Stop using WoW as your definition of things. There was absolutely nothing time consuming about getting Silver medals… they came naturally after just a few practice runs with your static team - which is how you SHOULD be running them.
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They came natural if you exploited the mechanics. Which is how MOST were running them
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What about those paying guilds plat to carry them to silver? How much team work and skill are they adding ?
 
 
Edit: or Those guilds advertising " will carry you to silver for  X amount of plat" They must really be worried about the type of player they are adding to the gene pool of " Skilled players"	
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What about those paying guilds plat to carry them to silver? How much team work and skill are they adding ?
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Let's be real, the rest of the attunement can be done in a day if you really want to and is just a time synch. Its not challenging in the slightest the only part that was remotely challenging/rewarding was the dungeon. If its just a time synch its just a waste. Your better off removing attunement. I am growing up lol. I'm saying what everyone else is already thinking. Check out Nirviii he agrees. Take out attunements, make it so you can rush to end game raiding and make it all puggable along the way. The people have spoken they want WoW 2.0..... (why they ever left the original WoW has yet to be seen though).
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They came natural if you exploited the mechanics. Which is how MOST were running them
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I think at this point, arguing is futile.
 
He has snapped from his previous "Carbine can do no wrong!" stance to "Carbine did wrong!". The new stance will be equally adamantly defended as the old one, I'm sure. Without compromise, concessions or actually accepting arguments.
I'm not telling you to stop arguing... as I've mentioned I do enjoy a drawn out but pointless internet argument as much as anyone.
Just giving you a heads up in case you somehow didn't notice for some reason. ;)
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That's a good point, definitely valid. But my problem is the fact that attunements have always been that kind of "Right of passage", you know?
You spent time, effort, long hours, studying, etc. to get that attunement done. But with it nerfed, it doesn't mean anything.
 
And yes, guilds will still hit the brick wall of GA's trash with a loud "THUD!" - but what happens when the QQ starts up about how hard GA is?
They QQ'd about the attunement being hard -> attunement was nerfed.
I think it's logical to follow the same pattern later on down the road.
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Nope… they came  natural with practice, no exploits. Let me guess, you haven't set foot into a veteran dungeon, yet are here championing nerfs to them?
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I am with ya  Argeas on that...
 
People worried about skills and gating and needing silver to  "learn to work as a team"  no you don't just the plat  so someone can carry you to silver.  It is sickening. That most of the people in game who are crying it will ruin the skill of players comes from guilds that were filling that gene pool with players willing to put out the plat ..lol
 
 
 
Edit: I jumped into game  earlier and they were going on in chat about " My guild wont take a scrub bronze They have no skill" But that same person ( not naming names) advertised the guild they were in were offering silver runs for plat " Will carry you whisper for price) just logged back out laughing .	
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Lol why you try so hard to beat me and try to say i'm noob casual that want WoW2.0?
I didnt ask the boss content to be nerfed, not a single word. I did ask the attument to be toned down because that's what killed the game.
 
Say all you want. I'm start to really tired of replying to your epeen because you basicly have no clue and only see things based on your thought.
 
I wish Chillia the moderator allow me to say that sentence to you. You really deserved "it" but sadly she deleted it in 5sec. What a wonderful day!
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			Too little too late...imo	
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			Is there anywhere I can read bullet points of these Nexus reports, rather than watching the whole Twitch video?	
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Everything comes natural with practice. You just defeated yourself and the OPs entire argument on how nerfing the attunement ruins the integrity of hardcore content. Yet... everything comes natural with practice.
 
Even your "hardcore" raids.
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Is there anywhere I can read bullet points of these Nexus reports, rather than watching the whole Twitch video?
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I am with ya  Argeas on that...
 
People worried about skills and gating and needing silver to  "learn to work as a team"  no you don't just the plat  so someone can carry you to silver.  It is sickening. That most of the people in game who are crying it will ruin the skill of players comes from guilds that were filling that gene pool with players willing to put out the plat ..lol
 
 
 
Edit: I jumped into game  earlier and they were going on in chat about " My guild wont take a scrub bronze They have no skill" But that same person ( not naming names) advertised the guild they were in were offering silver runs for plat " Will carry you whisper for price) just logged back out laughing .
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Is there anywhere I can read bullet points of these Nexus reports, rather than watching the whole Twitch video?
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			Thank you very much guys!  Just what I wanted.	
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Everything comes natural with practice. You just defeated yourself and the OPs entire argument on how nerfing the attunement ruins the integrity of hardcore content. Yet... everything comes natural with practice.
 
Even your "hardcore" raids.
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So does Silver runs in dungeons. It has taken my guild weeks to get through but we all did it, with some practice. Oh and noone has complained that its too hard. You keep finding faults in everything because you dont have anything real to bring to the table. 
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I am with ya  Argeas on that...
 
People worried about skills and gating and needing silver to  "learn to work as a team"  no you don't just the plat  so someone can carry you to silver.  It is sickening. That most of the people in game who are crying it will ruin the skill of players comes from guilds that were filling that gene pool with players willing to put out the plat ..lol
 
 
 
Edit: I jumped into game  earlier and they were going on in chat about " My guild wont take a scrub bronze They have no skill" But that same person ( not naming names) advertised the guild they were in were offering silver runs for plat " Will carry you whisper for price) just logged back out laughing .
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I honestly don't think anyone is seriously calling this hard. Let's really call it what it is. The content is not puggable. We want puggable, remove timer or remove attunements. Probably the latter since the attunements really serve no raid oriented purpose.
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It's the attitude of the elitests, they think they are "Pablo Escobar."  I was on stormtalon with a group the other day just working on their game when they queued for a dps who had nice deeps but was being a real bully saying he wouldn't continue unless we kicked the healer so he can bring in a raid-attuned healer.  The tank and healer were in the same guild and the way he bullied made the tank relent saying one more try before he kicks the healer.  I totally disagreed with kicking him, I don't think that is right and made it pretty clear to the group.  Of course the healer was obviously upset and just left.  This incident sums up why attunement process needed to be less gated.  It just encourages some people to act like total assholes when they perceive that have all this "power."
 
I just want one elitiest who acts this way in the game to go up to someone on real life and behave the same way.  Guarantee it would lead to someone punching you in the face.
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How do you know this had *anything* to do with population? And if it did, making design decisions *just* to keep players means they aren't necessarily the best ones for gameplay.
 
What don't you get about "Without players there is no game." You can have all "Hardcore" players but if you only have 100 of them the game isn't going to live. 
 
If you're playing an MMO as a solo player then you are sure to be frustrated. Good. That was supposed to be an indicator that you need to put together a team and play with them consistently to have success in group content.
 
Ok, now what if you're the only one on in your team? What if your schedule changes abruptly and no one else is one when you are on. "Find a new group" Ok, now you all have different attunements you need. You redo one you already did before and the people who now have all of their attunements leave and don't run with you anymore. "Find more people." So you expect us to find a new team all the time? Isn't that what puging does? No one is calling for a raid puging system(and if they are they're trolling.) People expect dungeons to be pugable and raids to be a team effort. Changing that dynamic has proven costly to carbine and now they are seeing the error of their ways.
 
But no, players have been trained so that they can do *anything* in an MMO as a solo player without regard for others in any way. WildStar was a promise against that notion, but in fact yesterday's announcement puts it squarely on that path.
 
No, people have been trained that dungeons are gear grinds for raids and that raids are where teamwork and effort should count. That's what Wildstar promised. Challenging content not tedious content. 
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Yeah, thats true. People call it time consuming and stupid. But in games when something is hard it takes time to learn. The Silver medal is just that, a challenge thats ment to be overcome. And it is with alot of practice. When its done you feel great becouse you managed to finish something hard. You brought your A-game and delivered. This is just what raiding feels like. But its hard to raid without a guild or without making friends. Pugging attunement for what purpose? If you dont want to join a guild or make a team up there is no point complaining about how difficult the time aspect of the attunement is. 
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I find it funny that people complain about this "nerf" and yet most of the people that i've come across in the game got attuned by:
 
1) Paying for it
2) Getting teleported to the last boss (similar to 1 but free)
3) using bugs (old stormtalon, skullcano, KV)
 
Silvers will still be there...if you want to have an "elitist" raid you can still ask for proof that people have completed it that way.
 
As long as they don't nerf the difficulty i don't see a problem with this. Stormtalon will still require to learn the fight, firebitch will still require you to avoid things, healing checks will still be there. Bosses and monsters ill still require interrupts.
 
Timers are a really bad idea that just prevent people with less time to get attuned , not "less skilled" people.
 
 
And just in case someone asks yes, im attuned already and i can gladly say that i did all my runs in a legit way.	
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Hello and welcome to World of Wildstar!We promise we will keep the game as competitive as possible and will not completely bow down to the power of money. We will keep the game as hardcore as possible for those people who put effort into it to get satisfaction.
 
This is roughly what we were promised before the game came out? Except the sarcasm of course. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
The devs are listening to all you casual players and for you we will lower the difficulty of the whole end game content gradually. First we will start with lowering the difficulty of the attunement process.
Later on if you complain enough we will lower the difficulty of the raids also.
 
Please don't get me wrong, I have nothing against casual players, hell I am one of them but, this is a *cupcake* on all players that have worked so hard to make good progress in raids, doing all the dungeons on silver or gold when we casuals were still throwing a party for getting gold in an adventure. I've been a hardcore player in other games, I know how much hard work and time you have to put in but, the satisfaction is there when you make progress, and it's all worth it knowing that you are one of the selected few who managed to defeat that content.Well ... not anymore. At least soon enough, when everyone will manage to clear GA.
I know you devs are most probably thinking there's still Datascape and more end game content to be added for the hardcore guys but what's the point, that content will be nerfed too later so why waste hours and hours when I can go to the beach and come back in September or October and clear everything in 1 night.
 
Okay enough whining, but you broke your promise Carbine, you basically built a market promising a hardcore game and now you're probably gonna lose most of the hardcore fans soon and will end up with a ton of casuals, paying customers fair enough but other games did that after years of revenue, you seem to be doing it after just a couple of months. Well it's your business plan and I hope you have thought it through, good luck.	
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How do you know this had *anything* to do with population? And if it did, making design decisions *just* to keep players means they aren't necessarily the best ones for gameplay.
 
What don't you get about "Without players there is no game." You can have all "Hardcore" players but if you only have 100 of them the game isn't going to live. 
 
If you're playing an MMO as a solo player then you are sure to be frustrated. Good. That was supposed to be an indicator that you need to put together a team and play with them consistently to have success in group content.
 
Ok, now what if you're the only one on in your team? What if your schedule changes abruptly and no one else is one when you are on. "Find a new group" Ok, now you all have different attunements you need. You redo one you already did before and the people who now have all of their attunements leave and don't run with you anymore. "Find more people." So you expect us to find a new team all the time? Isn't that what puging does? No one is calling for a raid puging system(and if they are they're trolling.) People expect dungeons to be pugable and raids to be a team effort. Changing that dynamic has proven costly to carbine and now they are seeing the error of their ways.
 
But no, players have been trained so that they can do *anything* in an MMO as a solo player without regard for others in any way. WildStar was a promise against that notion, but in fact yesterday's announcement puts it squarely on that path.
 
No, people have been trained that dungeons are gear grinds for raids and that raids are where teamwork and effort should count. That's what Wildstar promised. Challenging content not tedious content. 
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I find it funny that people complain about this "nerf" and yet most of the people that i've come across in the game got attuned by:
 
1) Paying for it
2) Getting teleported to the last boss (similar to 1 but free)
3) using bugs (old stormtalon, skullcano, KV)
 
Silvers will still be there...if you want to have an "elitist" raid you can still ask for proof that people have completed it that way.
 
As long as they don't nerf the difficulty i don't see a problem with this. Stormtalon will still require to learn the fight, firebitch will still require you to avoid things, healing checks will still be there. Bosses and monsters ill still require interrupts.
 
Timers are a really bad idea that just prevent people with less time to get attuned , not "less skilled" people.
 
 
And just in case someone asks yes, im attuned already and i can gladly say that i did all my runs in a legit way.
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Hello and welcome to World of Wildstar!
 
We promise we will keep the game as competitive as possible and will not completely bow down to the power of money. We will keep the game as hardcore as possible for those people who put effort into it to get satisfaction.
 
This is roughly what we were promised before the game came out? Except the sarcasm of course. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
The devs are listening to all you casual players and for you we will lower the difficulty of the whole end game content gradually. First we will start with lowering the difficulty of the attunement process.
Later on if you complain enough we will lower the difficulty of the raids also.
 
Please don't get me wrong, I have nothing against casual players, hell I am one of them but, this is a *cupcake* on all players that have worked so hard to make good progress in raids, doing all the dungeons on silver or gold when we casuals were still throwing a party for getting gold in an adventure. I've been a hardcore player in other games, I know how much hard work and time you have to put in but, the satisfaction is there when you make progress, and it's all worth it knowing that you are one of the selected few who managed to defeat that content.
Well ... not anymore. At least soon enough, when everyone will manage to clear GA.
I know you devs are most probably thinking there's still Datascape and more end game content to be added for the hardcore guys but what's the point, that content will be nerfed too later so why waste hours and hours when I can go to the beach and come back in September or October and clear everything in 1 night.
 
Okay enough whining, but you broke your promise Carbine, you basically built a market promising a hardcore game and now you're probably gonna lose most of the hardcore fans soon and will end up with a ton of casuals, paying customers fair enough but other games did that after years of revenue, you seem to be doing it after just a couple of months. Well it's your business plan and I hope you have thought it through, good luck.
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You know I was thinking some of what you said without really realizing it until now. This game does try to bring back the old sense of a large group or community that needs to work together. Large guilds that are needed to work together regularly to gain a lot of influence, 2 mil + for tier 6, Warplots, and circles. A lot of the content is stressing to work as a team as you go through it including the attunement. Example you attune while pugging,... now you're attuned where's your raid? Your guild is not attuned, you need 19 more people. I guess leave your guild and try to apply to another guild that is already raiding? But they probably already have 20 members + that attuned together. Strange, but the game does stress like a teamwork or attempts too. So if the whole point of the attuenemnt process is to foster that as well, then they really should remove it.
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Huh? Where are the rules that say dungeons must be puggable? No, they shouldn't. Especially in WildStar, on veteran mode, they are decidedly TEAM content, not solo content. Stop using WoW as your definition of things. There was absolutely nothing time consuming about getting Silver medals… they came naturally after just a few practice runs with your static team - which is how you SHOULD be running them.
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Where is the rule that says I should be running with a static team? I'm using most MMOs as my definition not just wow. Rift, FFXVI, Tor, just to name a few. I haven't ran into a single one that required a seriously organized group until raids. That's how things are. You can deny it all you want but the fact that carbine is doing this means I'm right.
----
			
1 of 4 silver for me.
 
Honestly I think this is a good change. Now that the best of the best have completed GA and started Datascape, they need someone to poach from whenever one falls from their roster. 
 
To be honest I think Carbine can do a lot more with attunement in the future. Make it Gold for the first month? Lets see which guild can clear dungeons on the hardest difficulty before they start raiding the next tier.
Then nerf the attunement to silver after a month or after the last boss of the current raid has been killed for the first time. Then wait another month to nerf it to Bronze or until 5 - 10 guilds have killed the last boss.
 
-Ozzy	
----
			
I think it's a perfectly acceptable change, they haven't changed difficulty, they have just made it so you aren't restricted by time.
 
Think about it, perhaps people with jobs start a silver, then fail near the last boss. But then they can't just go "oh well i made a mistake lets try that boss again" it's "GODDAMIT I GOTTA SLEEP IN 30 MINUTES AND I HAVE TO RESTART THIS". 
 
A lot of players that have skill/talent or w.e just simply don't have the time to afford if they or a group member makes a mistake. It's unfair to punish you timewise for a mistake in a game thats supposed to be enjoyable. 
 
The Silver rewards are still there. 
The Attunement process is still there
The difficulty is still there
 
The time gate for attunement has been reduced. That's all 
 
In short :
 
The time it takes to restart a dungeon because of a small mistake that was unavoidable, is much much higher then it takes to retry a certain part that does not have a timer blocking you from learning or holding your group back.	
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I find it funny that people complain about this "nerf" and yet most of the people that i've come across in the game got attuned by:
 
1) Paying for it
2) Getting teleported to the last boss (similar to 1 but free)
3) using bugs (old stormtalon, skullcano, KV)
 
Silvers will still be there...if you want to have an "elitist" raid you can still ask for proof that people have completed it that way.
 
As long as they don't nerf the difficulty i don't see a problem with this. Stormtalon will still require to learn the fight, firebitch will still require you to avoid things, healing checks will still be there. Bosses and monsters ill still require interrupts.
 
Timers are a really bad idea that just prevent people with less time to get attuned , not "less skilled" people.
 
 
And just in case someone asks yes, im attuned already and i can gladly say that i did all my runs in a legit way.
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Where is the rule that says I should be running with a static team? I'm using most MMOs as my definition not just wow. Rift, FFXVI, Tor, just to name a few. I haven't ran into a single one that required a seriously organized group until raids. That's how things are. You can deny it all you want but the fact that carbine is doing this means I'm right.
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I remember when I first played the beta with some others, the most frequent statement I heard was "wow, the dungeons are like the equivalent of WoW raids but for 5 people. This is awesome." It did seem awesome. I guess that was a mistake though on Carbine's part. I'm not being sarcastic I'm being serious, unfortunate, but true.
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So, they removed the useless timers. Big deal? The content is still there. If raids had a timer it would make more sense, but they don't.
 
This just smells of bitterness towards the fact that more people can access the content. Entering GA doesn't make you a special snowflake, nor does it reflect on your actual skill. 
It only reflects that you were lucky to either find a group patient and competent enough to get the silvers done, or that you were carried by your guild. And considering people are constantly quitting this game, more and more people gets carried to the raid part anyway.
 
Brb, getting my final silver.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I think it's a perfectly acceptable change, they haven't changed difficulty, they have just made it so you aren't restricted by time.
 
Think about it, perhaps people with jobs start a silver, then fail near the last boss. But then they can't just go "oh well i made a mistake lets try that boss again" it's "GODDAMIT I GOTTA SLEEP IN 30 MINUTES AND I HAVE TO RESTART THIS". 
 
A lot of players that have skill/talent or w.e just simply don't have the time to afford if they or a group member makes a mistake. It's unfair to punish you timewise for a mistake in a game thats supposed to be enjoyable. 
 
The Silver rewards are still there. 
The Attunement process is still there
The difficulty is still there
 
The time gate for attunement has been reduced. That's all 
 
In short :
 
The time it takes to restart a dungeon because of a small mistake that was unavoidable, is much much higher then it takes to retry a certain part that does not have a timer blocking you from learning or holding your group back.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm just curious, so asking a question here, not that I necessarily agree or disagree, but if you can't sit for a 40 minute STL run or 75 minute SSM run, and most raid groups raid for 3 hours or more, how are you going to be able to sit for those 3 hours 3 to 4 times a week?
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Or you could stay and help the other people through the attunement so that you learn to play with eachothers and create a great team. Like my guild did. We got something like 24 people through the attunement. Some of us has been really hard at work running others through the attunement aswell. Without cheesing it i might add (aka inviting a person to the last boss) or exploiting (because you dont learn anything then do you?). How can you come to the conclusion that it should be removed just becouse one person gets through the attunement and cant start raiding directly? Its common sense if you are in a guild that you help others out. Its called an MMO for a reason, this is NOT a single player game! 
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There should never have been a fence to begin with, everyone should have worked together to learn what is already VERY POSSIBLE
 
FOr people who are raiding already (Guild im in) once you go back to a dungeon (What seemed to be sooo hard at the time) now seem easy.. we can get silver without an issue now.. because we learned it.. we know the mechanics.. we know the run, we have the gear.
 
Its the SAME Thing when you finally get to dungeons and you go back to adventures (that may once have seemed really hard) will seem easy.
 
THere was never a need to nerf anything, people who couldnt do it, should have asked, there are people out there willing to teach Pug groups , people out there willing to actually re-run the dungeon with you to try and get silver.. 
 
And I know you all hate hearing it, but A GUILD, a guild of people with the same mindset to move forward and progress is probably one of the greatest things about this game... sense of community, sense of friendship, compadrey (I might have spelled that wrong)
 
Basically all in all, dumbing anything down in this case is the first step towards terrible oblivion..
 
Also for the people that just hit 40 man Datascape.. I am sure if they went back to do X89, it'd be a cakewalk.. yet when they first started it, probably a lot of headaches and learning involved... THAT essence was suppose to be the whole point of this MMO... difficulty.. and overcoming adversity as a group.. together..
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I can answer this one.
 
I can raid 3-5 nights a week at a static time for 3hrs a night.
 
Doing dungeons however is 1) waiting for the queues to pop (or trying to form a team for it) 2) hoping the team doesn't suck and disband after 1 wipe 3) if 1 and 2 go poorly, that's a waste of my game time.
 
So the point becomes is it worth my time to login and be frustrated, not by difficulty, but by simple tedium?
 
This change makes 1) go faster and 2) less occurences of team disbands due to wiping.
 
Which is good because raiding is 99% wiping, 1% loot.
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{| class="blockquote"
I can answer this one.
 
I can raid 3-5 nights a week at a static time for 3hrs a night.
 
Doing dungeons however is 1) waiting for the queues to pop (or trying to form a team for it) 2) hoping the team doesn't suck and disband after 1 wipe 3) if 1 and 2 go poorly, that's a waste of my game time.
 
So the point becomes is it worth my time to login and be frustrated, not by difficulty, but by simple tedium?
 
This change makes 1) go faster and 2) less occurences of team disbands due to wiping.
 
Which is good because raiding is 99% wiping, 1% loot.
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{| class="blockquote"
You're not in WoW anymore *cupcake*.  The population isn't there for everyone to have guilds to go through with this stuff together to learn it.  We're already seeing it.  Hell, you may be seeing it too.  I'm guessing you're being somewhat shortsighted and believe that since you rode the initial wave through attunement with your hardcore peers, you might think everyone can have it so easy.  But that's not the way MMOs work (outside of maybe WoW, which is an anomaly). 
 
Here's what I foresee happening when your numbers start to fall off as they always do.  You'll need to replace your raiders with other competent players.  1st thing, you'll recruit from the pool of already attuned with raiding experience.  Might get a few of those for a while, from other raiding guilds that have imploded already or from people who didn't like their current ones.  This pool will dry up quickly.  Next, you'll go after attuned players who haven't raided yet for any number of reasons.  Those won't last forever either, due to the way content goes in an MMO.  Finally, you'll lower yourselves to recruiting unattuned folks who want to raid.  But even they won't be able to prove their ability, because you and I both know that you will get 4 highly geared, experienced players and drag that last person by the ears through attunement. 
 
If I'm wrong, great, but I don't think so.  You may still be working with non-attuned players, but that won't last.  You'll get bored.  I see it already.  I have a toddler, so my play time has been severely diminished in this game, and thus I just hit 50 a few days ago.  I have begun the attunement process, but, as you might guess, actually getting people to go back and do what they've already done.  Not exactly working out.  This might help me attune.  And trust me, I'm more than qualified as a raider.  Not WoW, but top tier in several games that from all accounts make WoW look like childsplay.
 
TL;DR - There aren't tens of thousands of people at every stage in this game learning together.  That's not the way it works in MMOs anymore.  Only for the first wave, and that's long past.  Dropping a requirement that is irrelevant in the raiding environment will help you keep your pool of raider recruits a bit more healthy.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Not to mention dungeons need to be ran a lot more than raids.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Still not sure where you're guild is in all of this.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Not everyone is online or want to do dugeons at all times.
That's what pugs are for.
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Preface: Sure, I'm a tryhard. I'm a hardcore fanboy. I'm an idiot. I'm a masochist. etc. etc.
 
After watching the nexus report today, I'm completely and utterly disheartened.
The one part of this game that made me love it so much was the difficulty.
 
Without a doubt, this is one of the hardest MMO's I've played to date (10 years in MMO experience).
During the nexus report, a single statement about the current state of the attunement process left me speechless...
 
 
"We are dropping the timers so that players now only have to complete Bronze medals in order to satisfy that portion of the attunement."
 
 
What does this mean for the rest of us? 
Those of us that put countless hours into bugged out Vet Dungeon bosses to acquire Silver medals.
Bragging rights?
 
If you can find someone that really gives two shits that you did it before it got changed, then I suppose so.
 
And what does it mean for the future? 
To be honest, it's not hard to see how any Jim, John, Joe, or Jane are going to finish the attunement, now.
Bronze medals are a joke - if you can complete a dungeon, you have the capability to earn a bronze medal: all you need to do is click on shiny items.
This means that groups can spend entire nights, in 1 instance of a Vet Dungeon, completing the attunement requirement.
 
This affects you and your set raid group how? Seriously, if you are already attuned and raiding with your guild this has no effect on you whatsoever. You will probably see an increase in people wanting to join the guild but a lower skilled player will still be a lower skilled player. You'll be able to weed them out easily.
 
How does this prepare those who aren't yet attuned for raids?
How could making the attunement process easier possibly make those who aren't attuned MORE prepared for raid?
Now, instead of having a very small portion of skilled players who are attuned, we're going to have a massive entity of players who are attuned, and completely clueless.
What step of the attunement you were on was easily the best way for guilds to quickly weed out those who were not up to par during the recruitment process - now any Joe Schmoe can be attuned.
 
You seem to forget that a whole lot of the player base couldn't even complete the dungeons to begin with. That isn't going to change by removing a timer. All this is going to do is help people who can clear it with some consistency a little leeway. It will also make attuning new people not as much of a hassle.
 
What happens when the raids are "too hard"? Do we nerf them too?
GA is difficult. Not the most difficult raid I've ever done, but it requires a serious effort, skill, effective communication, and doing your homework on the boss fights before hand.
So what happens when Joe Schmoe, who now thinks he is entitled to whatever the *cupcake* he wants out of the game, starts the QQ campaign that is "The raids are too hard! Nerf them! Nerf them!".
What do we do then, Carbine? If we're going based off of a track record, it looks like we'll be expecting a nerf to that content as well.
 
Raids shouldn't be touched (other than bug fixes). This is the same thing I am fearful of but the attunement change will just allow us to get into GA sooner rather than later (and to be quite honest, probably save them some subscription losses). People are more willing to wipe on a Raid boss for hours than a 5 Man Dungeon boss.
 
 
Of course, I realize that any MMO needs casual players in order to keep it afloat - at the end of the day, this is a business, and a business needs to make revenue/profits in order to keep itself alive.
However, there is a fine line between "Content X is too hard for me to complete" and "I am too lazy/non-committal/entitled/unskilled to complete content X".
 
There's the lazy comment I was looking for. We have two groups now that can easily clear Stormtalon Silver. We worked our asses off to get to that point. When we got our first Silver kill (and two others that same night), that feeling was great. Then we sat back and said, "Holy shit, now we have to pull 15 others through this." That's not counting down the road when we have to get more people attuned.
 
There has been, and will continue to be, plenty of content for the causal players of the Wildstar universe - which, granted, a large portion of is currently bugged.
But rather than nerfing the content that your "hardcore" crowd enjoyed, why not just fix the content that is currently bugged for the casual members?
Or, simply create a whole new branch of content altogether for the casual crowd, and leave the raids/attunements/etc. completely alone?
 
Nerfing the content that the hardcore crowd enjoyed, then never touched again once their team was attuned. It's not any different with us. Once we are attuned, there's no reason to step back into those dungeons in any capacity. We are a casual guild, that's why we are just now moving through this portion of the attunement. We move at our own pace. Personally, I have run out of interesting, so-called casual content. At this point it's either run dungeons for attunements or log off. The more I log off, the less I feel the value in paying for the game when there's plenty of other options out there.
 
TL;DR And so it begins - the dumbing down of content to cater to the casual player.
 
It's not dumbing down. They aren't changing the mechanics, they are removing the timer requirement (which, I'll admit wasn't too hard to hit with the latest increase but it is what it is).
 
 
Edit: Guys, there is one simple question that I have as a direct result of this change. This is my largest concern with this attunement change -
 
If all people have to do is complain that something is too hard to see it nerfed - what's going to happen to the raid content when those players, who couldn't finish attunement until this nerf, hit the wall in GA? Will content be nerfed then?
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{| class="blockquote"
Not everyone is online or want to do dugeons at all times.
That's what pugs are for.
----
			
Sad to see I missed this thread yesterday with 'net down at work. I've been expecting it. Reading it now  is still great on both sides. IT'S HAPPENING	
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Then why bother getting attuned?
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{| class="blockquote"
Everything comes natural with practice. You just defeated yourself and the OPs entire argument on how nerfing the attunement ruins the integrity of hardcore content. Yet... everything comes natural with practice.
 
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{| class="blockquote"
Then why bother getting attuned?
 
This is where I think the biggest disconnect is.
 
These raids are not puggable. To raid GA you need coordination, they are not conducive to pugging, so if the issue with the silver dungeons is truly that getting silver in a pug is impossible/hard/challenging/timeconsuming/etc it should not be relevant. 
 
Now, if organized groups are having a hard time getting through Silvers, even after the recent normalization changes to the dungeons, then maybe it bears some looking at, although in this case I argue that it still should be a gate to raiding.
 
But when pugs can't get attuned to raid, to be honest, I couldn't care less. Don't get me wrong, I love to solo, I like to level solo, do dailies solo, I like the me-time, but never in a million years would I expect to gain access to the end-game top-level content without having to group with fellow players and make a concerted effort to reach it (guilds, static groups, et al.)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
My guild is already raiding and I'm lagging behind. Most of them only log in during raid times, and who can blame them really? There's nothing left to do in this game.
 
Then I figured I would pug out the last silver, but no. 3 hours in queue and nothing. Dead population is dead.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Where is the rule that says I should be running with a static team? I'm using most MMOs as my definition not just wow. Rift, FFXVI, Tor, just to name a few. I haven't ran into a single one that required a seriously organized group until raids. That's how things are. You can deny it all you want but the fact that carbine is doing this means I'm right.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If all people have to do is complain that something is too hard to see it nerfed - what's going to happen to the raid content when those players, who couldn't finish attunement until this nerf, hit the wall in GA? Will content be nerfed then?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
There will be a new petition. If this petition get to 30+ pages, 20raid will be nerfed.
 
And to be clear, it is not casual gamers fault, no. You don't have to be a casual to cry tears of blood for a nerf. You just don't have to ask yourself : am i good enough for this ? How can i improve ? Am i doing things wrong ? How is my gear ? How are my runes ? What skill do i need to defeat this boss ?
 
People signing the " silver nerf petition " will be signing the " 20 raid difficulty is wrong you need to nerf it " petition.
 
i'm a masochist too, wanna try my rope ?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Answer my question first.
 
It'an MMO. Why on earth do you expect success in veteran group content playing as a solo player?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Or you could stay and help the other people through the attunement so that you learn to play with eachothers and create a great team. Like my guild did. We got something like 24 people through the attunement. Some of us has been really hard at work running others through the attunement aswell. Without cheesing it i might add (aka inviting a person to the last boss) or exploiting (because you dont learn anything then do you?). How can you come to the conclusion that it should be removed just becouse one person gets through the attunement and cant start raiding directly? Its common sense if you are in a guild that you help others out. Its called an MMO for a reason, this is NOT a single player game!
----
			
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Not everyone is online or want to do dugeons at all times.
That's what pugs are for.
----
			
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Yeah, because my guildies exist to improve my game experience. They should spend their limited free time attuning people instead of raiding, because it's a team game!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah, because my guildies exist to improve my game experience. They should spend their limited free time attuning people instead of raiding, because it's a team game!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
There will be a new petition. If this petition get to 30+ pages, 20raid will be nerfed.
 
And to be clear, it is not casual gamers fault, no. You don't have to be a casual to cry tears of blood for a nerf. You just don't have to ask yourself : am i good enough for this ? How can i improve ? Am i doing things wrong ? How is my gear ? How are my runes ? What skill do i need to defeat this boss ?
 
People signing the " silver nerf petition " will be signing the " 20 raid difficulty is wrong you need to nerf it " petition.
 
i'm a masochist too, wanna try my rope ?
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{| class="blockquote"
Not for veteran-level content that is the gateway to raids. Those are not intended to be pugged, much less the raids they lead to. It won't happen.
 
This is the root of the problem - players are expecting to do everything as a solo player... and that will simply not work for the content in WildStar. You should not expect success at difficult group content as a solo pug player.  If your team isn't online? Then you do that content another time - you have to lose the idea that you should be able to do whatever content you want any time you want to do it.
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{| class="blockquote"
You are supposed to be a team. So, yes. They are. 
That's the whole point of teams, not a collection of warm bodies.  
 
That's why the NFL doesn't pick 22 random fans out of the stands to play the game every Sunday. They know to perform at the highest levels it has to be a static, well-practiced team.
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Well now. The bullshit gets fixed, the challenge remains, and yet look at all the tears. 33 pages worth. To all that would have rather let the game die? Guess what. Carbine ain't playin' that.
 
Between this and the rune changes, there's promise on the horizon once again. The devs are listening.	
----
			If everybody who has posted in this thread were on the same server, and you separated them between who was for & against nerfing attunement, you'd have at least 2 full raid groups on both sides if not more. Too bad timezones and work schedules interfere with this.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm just curious, so asking a question here, not that I necessarily agree or disagree, but if you can't sit for a 40 minute STL run or 75 minute SSM run, and most raid groups raid for 3 hours or more, how are you going to be able to sit for those 3 hours 3 to 4 times a week?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If everybody who has posted in this thread were on the same server, and you separated them between who was for & against nerfing attunement, you'd have at least 2 full raid groups on both sides if not more. Too bad timezones and work schedules interfere with this.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I find it funny that people complain about this "nerf" and yet most of the people that i've come across in the game got attuned by:
 
1) Paying for it
2) Getting teleported to the last boss (similar to 1 but free)
3) using bugs (old stormtalon, skullcano, KV)
 
 
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{| class="blockquote"
Because sometimes you need to take from 1 to 10 minutes to do X thing (phone call, kids , bathroom , whatever). I've never been in a raid that couldn't give me 5 m to take a small break.to take care of something... and if you do you don't *cupcake*up and have to start over... you just wait 5 minutes.  STL usually is not the problem since you can do it in like 30m and there is a smaller chance to get interrupted in there but SSM is 1+ hour (granted you can do it in 45-55 if you have a very good group but this means lots of hours invested already). Also trash on raids can be done with 15~ people... you have room for 5 players to be afk. In the end your RL will decide if they want to keep you in that raid or not and if i want to be in a raid full of people that stops every 20m why shouldn't i be allowed? Im not sayin "make it easier so i can do it in 20" im saying let me control the time and not the game.
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What time zone are you in? Maybe try a server that s in your time zone with guilds that are also in your time zone that are also playing? Your current server is dead when you get on? No circle nothing? Honestly if your guild doesn't help you, why do you stay?
----
			People are still debating this? There are other issues that you could be putting your energy into. Everyone from Casuals to Hardcore Raiders and even the Press disliked the Attunement in what's soon to be, it's previous state :D . Some of you have been around these forums. Can we please stop pretending that only Baddies disliked the gate? You know it's not true. If a design choice is being attack from below, above and from the outside it's probably a bad idea.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Right, leave my friends that I've had for years because my schedule changed. 
 
I'll just go to the EU server from the NA server because I now work nights and can only run with my previous guild on weekends where they want to raid.
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{| class="blockquote"
People are still debating this? There are other issues that you could be putting your energy into. Everyone from Casuals to Hardcore Raiders and even the Press disliked the Attunement in what's soon to be, it's previous state :D . Some of you have been around these forums. Can we please stop pretending that only Baddies disliked the gate? You know it's not true. If a design choice is being attack from below, above and from the outside it's probably a bad idea.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
People are still debating this? There are other issues that you could be putting your energy into. Everyone from Casuals to Hardcore Raiders and even the Press disliked the Attunement in what's soon to be, it's previous state :D . Some of you have been around these forums. Can we please stop pretending that only Baddies disliked the gate? You know it's not true. If a design choice is being attack from below, above and from the outside it's probably a bad idea.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Not for veteran-level content that is the gateway to raids. Those are not intended to be pugged, much less the raids they lead to. It won't happen.
 
This is the root of the problem - players are expecting to do everything as a solo player... and that will simply not work for the content in WildStar. You should not expect success at difficult group content as a solo pug player.  If your team isn't online? Then you do that content another time - you have to lose the idea that you should be able to do whatever content you want any time you want to do it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You are supposed to be a team. So, yes. They are. 
That's the whole point of teams, not a collection of warm bodies.  
 
That's why the NFL doesn't pick 22 random fans out of the stands to play the game every Sunday. They know to perform at the highest levels it has to be a static, well-practiced team.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The change hash't been made yet. There's still time to get it on a correction course.
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However since there are other players present on the server and or other server why is PUGing such an evil thing? It's how you meet people, become social, how you recruit(well some of us recruit), how we learn from eachother, and how communities grow. I'm not expecting to do everything solo(though I tried 1 manning Tugga and that did not go well lol) it's why I group, why I ask openly in zone, sometimes in trade/advice(with respect not to do it more than once an hour or so and i only use those channels if im really urging to get into doing something), in circles, etc..."Hey who wants to do some 5 mans?!" and if I get no response then I turn to LFG cross server and yap up a storm with those folks who in turn sometimes become new friends and acquaintances.
 
I'd be bored to death and quit the game if I just went "oh...no ones on to do stuff with, guess I'll just do it another day".
 
Let's not forget too that for some people dungeons are their end-game, that's all they want to do and they're happy with just staying at the veteran level. I remember people in rift who soley just did expert dungeons, but never cared about raids and in Warcraft I knew quite a few who just happy doing heroics.
 
To add to that notion if veteran content truly is not mean to be puged at all, then it should never have been placed in LFG. Personally I'm more of a global server LFG channel(yes i know the problems that come with it) person, but it is what it is.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
However since there are other players present on the server and or other server why is PUGing such an evil thing? It's how you meet people, become social, how you recruit(well some of us recruit), how we learn from eachother, and how communities grow.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The change hash't been made yet. There's still time to get it on a correction course.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
NFL Players don't pay the NFL so they can play.  This is more akin to a game of football in the park among friends.
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5 selfish and delusional people aren't going to make them change their minds. As the word spreads and the population rises there will be no going back. How can you look at the state of server populations and not want them to  investigate every avenue? This is why I have always said that the so called "whiners" are the ones who actually care about the game. THE GAME WAS DYING! DO YOU EVEN CARE?!!
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Baelix,
Sadly you are out of touch with the state of the game if you had to make a post about not liking the attunement.  I don't mind attunements, for example, the BC attunement's were a thing of beauty!  Countless guilds and people have been destroyed over the attunements in wildstar.  Some because they just didn't have the skills, some because they didn't have enough people to put a group together to grind the dungeon for a week until they get it, some because they just didn't want to attune others anymore.  The timers only teach you how to exploit.  yes, you have to play perfect to get them, but lets be honest, do you play perfect in a raid?  How many times have you wiped on trash? On a boss.  Their are other ways to test a players skill before raiding that don't include timers.  BC Wow did a perfect example of it.  
 
Also the world boss part was just annoying.  When I did it, half of them were bugged and we had to wait until they were fixed.  How is that hardcore?  I worked my ass off getting through the dungeons only to find the world bosses were bugged or my quest wasn't updating.  Hell, we had one member had his DUNGEON PROGRESSION ERASED, and he was 3/4 done.  how is that hardcore?
 
If you knew the state of the game, you would know Carbine is bleeding subs.  NCsoft is about to post huge losses due to wildstar and shareholders are not going to be happy.  Servers are dead, Pvp is broken, getting better, but still not working as intended.
 
I give carbine credit for wanting a super hardcore game, but they are a few years to late to the market with it.  With all the MMO's, people have gotten used to getting a huge gain for little work.  Wildstar's model was destined to fail unless if they did something.  Once the WoW expansion comes out, this game will die completely.  
 
What Wildstar should have done was make content for players who work but still want to see end game, but also provide content IE 40 man for the super Elite.  When you keep 99% of your player base out of end game and provide them with nothing to do, you will fail.  
 
in the end, the timer portion of the attunement was all just a gate to block players out of the raids which were still broken themselves.  They just didn't estimate how many people would rage and leave.  
 
I myself have now quit the game because I can't keep attuning people to just see them leave a few weeks later due to broken systems and classes.  Also, the raids are bland to me.  Dodge left, Dodge Right, interrupt Egg, destroy bomb.....repeat.	
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Again its a smart business move, but I think we should cut the crap and just eliminate the attunement process. Why is it here?
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Again its a smart business move, but I think we should cut the crap and just eliminate the attunement process. Why is it here?
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5 selfish and delusional people aren't going to make them change their minds. As the word spreads and the population rises there will be no going back. How can you look at the state of server populations and not want them to  investigate every avenue? This is why I have always said that the so called "whiners" are the ones who actually care about the game. THE GAME WAS DYING! DO YOU EVEN CARE?!!
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Baelix,
Sadly you are out of touch with the state of the game if you had to make a post about not liking the attunement.  I don't mind attunements, for example, the BC attunement's were a thing of beauty!  Countless guilds and people have been destroyed over the attunements in wildstar.  Some because they just didn't have the skills, some because they didn't have enough people to put a group together to grind the dungeon for a week until they get it, some because they just didn't want to attune others anymore.  The timers only teach you how to exploit.  yes, you have to play perfect to get them, but lets be honest, do you play perfect in a raid?  How many times have you wiped on trash? On a boss.  Their are other ways to test a players skill before raiding that don't include timers.  BC Wow did a perfect example of it.  
 
Also the world boss part was just annoying.  When I did it, half of them were bugged and we had to wait until they were fixed.  How is that hardcore?  I worked my ass off getting through the dungeons only to find the world bosses were bugged or my quest wasn't updating.  Hell, we had one member had his DUNGEON PROGRESSION ERASED, and he was 3/4 done.  how is that hardcore?
 
If you knew the state of the game, you would know Carbine is bleeding subs.  NCsoft is about to post huge losses due to wildstar and shareholders are not going to be happy.  Servers are dead, Pvp is broken, getting better, but still not working as intended.
 
I give carbine credit for wanting a super hardcore game, but they are a few years to late to the market with it.  With all the MMO's, people have gotten used to getting a huge gain for little work.  Wildstar's model was destined to fail unless if they did something.  Once the WoW expansion comes out, this game will die completely.  
 
What Wildstar should have done was make content for players who work but still want to see end game, but also provide content IE 40 man for the super Elite.  When you keep 99% of your player base out of end game and provide them with nothing to do, you will fail.  
 
in the end, the timer portion of the attunement was all just a gate to block players out of the raids which were still broken themselves.  They just didn't estimate how many people would rage and leave.  
 
I myself have now quit the game because I can't keep attuning people to just see them leave a few weeks later due to broken systems and classes.  Also, the raids are bland to me.  Dodge left, Dodge Right, interrupt Egg, destroy bomb.....repeat.
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Because it's arguable that moving attunement to bronze doesn't change the fact that it's still a skill check for completion.  It's debatable whether or not it's good enough (I think it is).
 
But the game needs attunement for raids because if you don't have attunement as a measuring stick, you'll not know whether or not you're good enough, or geared enough, to raid.
 
There's a difference between someone with bronze v silver medals walking into a raid, and a fresh 50 that ran a few regulars doing the same thing.
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Heh. There are thousands of people, if not tens of thousands, unhappy wit this change because it represents a philosophical divergence for WildStar.
 
This change just kicks the can down the road, to the next battle cry for accessibility. And now the indicator is that Carbine will cave at that point to save the players then as well.
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The change hash't been made yet. There's still time to get it on a correction course.
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Explain to me how the attunement currently measures anything having to do with raiding. Is it not just a time synch? I need 32 K dominion rep that's gonna take some time, world bosses some time, adventures etc etc. These are just things to do. How are these measures of skill?
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Heh. There are thousands of people, if not tens of thousands, unhappy wit this change because it represents a philosophical divergence for WildStar.
 
This change just kicks the can down the road, to the next battle cry for accessibility. And now the indicator is that Carbine will cave at that point to save the players then as well.
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Yeah, because my guildies exist to improve our collective gaming experience.
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.As you liked to say when some one brings up the population decline, "Where's your proof?" So Far I've only seen two people vehemently post against this. Most everyone else is for it.
How are you so short sighted that you can't see if carbine doesn't ease up YOU WON'T HAVE A GAME!
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I've actually said that myself a few times on the Forums. TBH the Attunement will always be viewed as a "not quite Ready" feature. It serves to buy them a bit of time(Some of DS is really buggy). At the same time people did ask them for it. That's why it isn't being completely removed.
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{| class="blockquote"
Heh. There are thousands of people, if not tens of thousands, unhappy wit this change because it represents a philosophical divergence for WildStar.
 
This change just kicks the can down the road, to the next battle cry for accessibility. And now the indicator is that Carbine will cave at that point to save the players then as well.
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Did Carbine say that? I must have missed that as the reasoning.
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If they were your friends they would help you. Some of these guys and girls I've only known for a little less than a year through steam or 2 months from the game launch and I help them, and vice versa, so.... Not even that though there are circles too, for world bosses, for vet dungeons could just try one of those if you really didn't want to leave. But again if they were your friends they would help you over pixels. If they won't even do that, I'd really hate to see your enemies.
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And where are you more likely to see better gameplay? In the local park or on Lambeau Field?
 
Teamwork matters, and taking away the requirements for it ruins group content. Tht's really the beginning and end of the story.
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