119634-hopefully-some-constructive-criticism-for-you-all-at-carbine

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I want to preface this all by stating, I know how hard you all are working at Carbine as well as knowing what it takes to make a game.  Unfortunately it's not easy and the only real two options is to either release a game that is 80-90% complete and do what's possible to get it to that 100% or the route that many companies have done is delay.  Let's be frank, this is a game to gamers and a product to investors. I note this because we, as gamers, see the content and we enjoy most of it but there are things we want fixed and for some....fixed yesterday. Yet, in the perspective of an investor, it's what can be done to bring in more people for making sure that the product and brand of Wildstar survives and grows Carbine and NCSoft.  I'm not faulting you all just stating the obvious facts.  Many companies will move forward with projects that become games for gamers like us.  To allow us to create scrutiny and complain day in and out on this game to you all I know isn't easy....it's even worse when we as gamers are mostly impatient by nature and while we tear into you about things we want done, we don't necessarily realize there is also the company itself being addressed by your upper echelon.  I would assume though that you all are obviously prepared for it so I thank you all for the work that you all have thus far.
 
So here are some things that I've observed and feel that over time, there should be some updates or patching done to fix things. I know you all may already have them on the list but I read your thread posts on what you all are working on now and figured posting this message here will eventually be read by the Devs and addressed.  I'm not nitpicking, just understand where you all are coming from as developers.
 
1) The elder points/elder gem vendor in Thayd/Illum - In the natural progression of running, I've noticed that finishing and unlocking all the gear via running vet adventures opens up a lot of gear  The standard in which to get the gear from this vendor now has been changed so the gear requirement to attain it should be changed as well. There is a balancing issue at this gear. It's not necessarily normal progression to run vet adventures to unlock decent gear but not be able to get any of the vet dungeon gear because it is still at a high gold standard where bronze is needed only for attunement.
 
2) Collecting Quests - low level collecting quests I've noticed I can pair up with someone which is cool.  But it gets to higher level stuff e.g. dailies that didn't make sense to me which some of it is still independent collecting to fulfill the quest. I know you all work hard to get things done but I figured to note this again because it was something that was promised to look through and streamline.
 
3) Rebalancing XP tables - After a few characters, I have noticed a very skewed leveling system.  The first 20 or so levels are a very slow process.  In a lot of cases, painfully slow leveling.  The quests there are almost like filler at time.  When leveling and moving through story, the quest xp should be tweaked a little to become a more natural progression.  So perhaps adding some xp to some of the quests to create more of a normal process would work better.  At this time, I have noticed that the leveling in the first 20 or so levels is very tedious and as a new player, may cause some to leave due to the xp grind feels boring or repetitive.
 
These are just a few things I have noticed.  And there are more possible things but I know you all have your hands full already  :)
 
I did some thinking in regards for pondering the future ideas that I would hope you all, as Devs, would consider for possible updates
 
1) Raiding in this game is an arduous task and it shouldn't necessarily be an arduous task.  Something I would suggest is that while Datascape is 20 man...I think GA should be taken down to 10 man.  The reasoning behind this is that there will be more people that can be pushed through the content and allow more people to enjoy it more frequently.  This will also lead into my next idea.
 
2) Raiding should have two paths. One of the paths being "Attunement" and there should be one that is "Nonattunement" type of variety.  The raid paths should both be 10 man and 20 man but the "attunement" side will have a higher end equipment type drops because it is needed for that type of raid. The "nonattunement" side should have gear that is comparable to them as well but not in the same drop table as the "attunement" side.  So this will create a buffer system for people wanting to try raids to get exposure.  If the people like the 10 and 20 man "nonattunement" raids then he or she might want to finish their attunement to get into the "Attunement" side and get even better gear.  This type of continuity would give proper exposure to some of the other strengths that Wildstar has and allow people to do something in the wake of feeling productive.
 
3) I know somewhere in here I might seem vain, but Wildstar should be at least in my mind a sci-fi western type of game.  And I know there might have been delays but spellslingers should have cowboy hats. I know that these things probably have been mentioned till we're blue in the face but I feel as an esthetic part of the game...it not just fits but should be common place like all other equipment and costume pieces are.
 
4) Another thing would be seeing about opening the level cap to perhaps 80.  With this level cap opening, there should be extra planets which would have obviously their own content.  This would be a huge content patch or break it down to something like a 10 level increase and a new planet per level.  Just something that opens the variety and the potential of the game itself.  I know much of what I suggest or mention might be a pipedream but I see so much for the game to create a rich environment that people can continue to enjoy content-wise.
 
Anyhow, here were just a few things to mention and I hope that they were perhaps a little more constructive than most.  I hope the Devs are truly listening at this time and hope that they will look into and address these things.  Obviously there are more and i"ll probably post another forum when I get all the rest on paper and pulled through my mind. Thank you Carbine for the initial creation of this game and I do hope that you all won't get too discouraged and move forward with something amazing.
 
Icyhell	
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			I agree with most points other than your raiding proposals. Why do you think downsizing Datascape from 40 to 20 gives Carbine an oppurtunity to downscale GA, which is considered pretty damn well tuned and very doable for any individual, to 10 man? If anything I'd remove attunement entirely. 	
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Well the situation that I see is attunement being the obstacle.  But I know that there are players that like the process of attunement so keep it there for them.  I've seen GA and you're right Razhork, it's pretty well tuned.  It is obvious that it's been worked on a lot.  My point mainly is to give alternatives to satisfy the masses versus just a very large group of people.  I mean you're right, remove attunement altogether if possible.  My thoughts were to create multiple paths if attunement was an obstacle that would be removed at all.
 
I suggesting scaling down only for the situation of getting more people through raids.  I've been through many different raid systems and the idea of waiting for multiple people to group up beyond 12-15 in a somewhat orderly fashion was bearable...to 20 and usually things worked...but the idea of 40s and more was always something that took an act of faith at times to come together. Many of the older gamers remember those types of headache and while they remain epic in some form or fashion, bringing them back is a situations where that's old game thinking.  We're in an age of gamers where if it's not out now, I don't have time for it later because it should be out now type of mentality.  Is that's the majority no...but that's the mindset that was created over generations and time now.  
 
So if we have the ability to do away with raiding requirements like attunement, I would say to do away with it because just having the laundry list of things may seem fun and a daunting task but it's a burnout system where we are having people who have gotten passed it burning out running it where new people are starting to burn out on it because they know it's something that needs to be done but don't like doing it at all. In addition, if 20 mans are able to be feasible in raid form often, keep them that way. Just a general thoughts to create any alternatives to try and get people playing more.	
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Honestly, I'm not sure people's access to raids is what's keeping them from playing.  Most people I know aren't even attuned because of the dungeon step.  Before we start talking about altering raiding, we'll wait for people to get through a few more dungeons.
 
A lot of fixes to the PVE instancing process are coming in drop 4 in early January (as long as nothing's changed).  This includes a "training dungeon" so people aren't out in the cold, buffs to experience gains in instanced content so you can level via dungeons, a drastically updated loot system, and a new, somewhat more casual 20 man raid (Carbine's already said attunement will not be so extensive as far as PVE checking you goes for this one).  I'm not sure whether it's in Drop 4, but Datascape is being reduced and retuned to a 20 man raid as well.  There's a lot coming.  They seem to be particularly excited about content dailies, so there's a quest to run the content.  I actually don't know as much about the details of that, though I'm sure someone could probably chime in on how exactly that's going to work and what it will cover.
 
If dungeons and raids are what you're making suggestions on, it might be best to see what they've already got coming out of the end of the pipe for us.  I actually just wrote a fairly extensive piece here on the forums about how the best way Carbine might make the servers feel and actually be more populated is probably in world content, and creating a sort of idiosyncrasy between the server types so people can get their experience slightly tuned to what they want to do.	
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You bring up some good points and some absolutely terrible points. 
 
Some of the stuff you mention in the first half of your OP are being addressed, have been addressed, or will be addressed. If you haven't checked the dev tracker for insight into what Drop 4 (Jesus Drop 2.0) holds, then I suggest you search for as much as you can. To piggyback off that notion of things said past, Donatelli also talked about marketing, which he admitted wasn't his department and didn't go into much detail. What he did say though was that they want the game to be in the best state it can be in before they start shoving WildStar down people's throats like the endless WoW adverts I see everywhere. 
 
You talked about the first 20 levels or so being slow. There is a very good reason for this. The reason is that it is easier to drink from a water fountain than a fire hose. Take that information as you see fit. Just because you have leveled multiple toons, doesn't mean that Joe Blough has ever played WildStar before. As far as questing goes. If it says group, it's meant to be completed as a group, if it doesn't then chances are it's just as easily soloed as anything else that's soloable. The daily quests (with the exception of Blighthaven and The Defile) have a very natural progression to the questing. All the tasks can be completed within one region of a zone before the breadcrumbs lead you to the next region. This is kind of the themepark design behind the questing and leveling experience. 
 
Raiding, yes raiding. What a tough topic. I don't find raiding hard, never have. Raiding to me at any level of hardcoreness is relaxing to me. GA will never be, and should never be for only 10 people. It would ruin the instance. If they dropped GA to 10, you'd have the same issue you have now with 40 man DS. 2 GA groups cannot form to be a full 40 man team without at least some changing roles. The same would be true for 10 man teams coming together to be a complete 20 man.
 
How much easier does the attunement need to be before you just start handing out gear just for reaching 50? The current attunement let's you experience 95% of the mechanics you will be presented with in GA while also developing your gear and your skills with your class. Any less you'd have people failing their way to the first mini-boss and asking for nerfs or more free gear. Not that we don't have that now, but there would surely be more of it. I can think of one former guildmate in specific in regards to attunement. This individual needed the infamous SC to complete his/her attunement. Generally we regarded him/her as a player that needs to refine his/her skill more before we would consider allowing him/her into GA with us. He/she ended up g-quitting a couple weeks ago, got ran through SC, and I PuGed a GA with him/her. His/her skill never improved because he/she never learned, was a burden to the raid, and his/her lack of class mastery kept us from completing even X89.
 
Your point #4 is literally why expansions are made. You'd still be here complaining if there were 6 other planets and 30 extra levels at launch. 	
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			Basically same as above, some points are ok but your raiding points aren't valid at all.  Raiding in this game is NOT an arduous task, rather, it's what's kept me playing happily personally.Also, I'm not sure if you know this but SS class gear from GA is a cowboy wizard hat. (may be speaking to the depths of your knowledge regarding WS raiding as well if you don't know this).Anyways though, attunement itself is quite simple and you DO see similar mechanics and ways to handle situations that people in guilds want to teach new players. For example, interrupt groups, solo interrupting, cc breaking difficult mechanics and then interrupting a cast (common theme in GA/STL/DS), dodging lasers, (GA/DS/KV) etc..	
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4) Another thing would be seeing about opening the level cap to perhaps 80.  With this level cap opening, there should be extra planets which would have obviously their own content.  This would be a huge content patch or break it down to something like a 10 level increase and a new planet per level.  Just something that opens the variety and the potential of the game itself.  I know much of what I suggest or mention might be a pipedream but I see so much for the game to create a rich environment that people can continue to enjoy content-wise.
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I"ve raided for a long time in several MMO's.   Dropping the number of players required down does not accomplish a thing, the same issues always crop up.  From the 'roster boss' perspective:
 
I had the same issues in 25 man that I did in 40 man
I had the same issues in 10 man that I did in 25 man
And the 20 man raids/instances, same thing.
 
 
From the raid difficulty perspective Lowering the number of people required for a raid does NOT get more people raiding.  It gives those 10 poor souls much less to work with in terms of character abilities and at the same time means that you have a much higher chance of a single player causing a wipe.    In even 25 mans, losing 1 or 2 people was recoverable.  In 10 mans, its a wipe.
 
The biggest obstacle I see in Wildstar Raiding is attunement, something I've just recently conquered myself.  As was suggested above, no changes to raiding should occur until more people are raiding.  To get more people raiding, attunement would need to be changed.
 
NOTE: I would be fine with a non-attunement raid ability... something like no attunement needed, no changes to the bosses, but new loot tables with lowered levels of gear.   If you want the top gear, you have to earn it, and that means attuned raiding.  Otherwise you still have a chance to see the content.  Of course, if you can't do bronze dungeons, you're probably not going to get past the first trash pulls, so this will most likely never happen.
 
Abbye	
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Of the fights I've seen of GA, it would be near impossible to downscale to 10 man- it would wreck the fights.
 
I'm all for having 10 mans- but they need to be developed that way.	
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			I really appreciate the way you have delivered your feedback.  I would say some of your ideas are possible in the near future and some in the distant future.  However, it is all still valuable feedback.  As always, I will be passing along the info to the Devs.	
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1) Raiding in this game is an arduous task and it shouldn't necessarily be an arduous task.  Something I would suggest is that while Datascape is 20 man...I think GA should be taken down to 10 man.  The reasoning behind this is that there will be more people that can be pushed through the content and allow more people to enjoy it more frequently.  This will also lead into my next idea.
 
2) Raiding should have two paths. One of the paths being "Attunement" and there should be one that is "Nonattunement" type of variety.  The raid paths should both be 10 man and 20 man but the "attunement" side will have a higher end equipment type drops because it is needed for that type of raid. The "nonattunement" side should have gear that is comparable to them as well but not in the same drop table as the "attunement" side.  So this will create a buffer system for people wanting to try raids to get exposure.  If the people like the 10 and 20 man "nonattunement" raids then he or she might want to finish their attunement to get into the "Attunement" side and get even better gear.  This type of continuity would give proper exposure to some of the other strengths that Wildstar has and allow people to do something in the wake of feeling productive.
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These systems are quickly becoming commonplace in mmos. I would give my left nut for Carbone to implement something along these lines, and I have little to no doubt that it would work wonders for the health of the game. (provided they get the itemisation right) I don't think we'll be seeing it soon though as they havent even got the core content working properly yet.
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