Report 1704

Report #1704
Skillset: Pureblade Skill: None
 Org: Gaudiguch Status: Completed Jun 2017
Furies' Decision:
All solutions (with possible number tweaks).
Problem: Pureblade suffers from a mechanic that is all over the map to balance
around and therefore the kit only ever excels in a small percentage of
situations. This report is rather indepth and may require being a special report
due to the changes I am proposing, but I will put it up to see. Discussion with
both Avurekhos and Wobou has taken place to figure out numbers (which can be
adjusted as needed, if needed)
[A: 8 R: 2] Solution #1: With the introduction of Hemmorhage, I am trying to
 allow Pureblade the same mechanic, this enables them
 to actually build to a kill in any situation. The
 first change is to remove the 'Increase Bleeding'
 from Piercearms and Pinleg. Instead those modifiers
 will build Hemorrhage at the rate of 100 each.
[A: 5 R: 5] Solution #2: Scale Twist's damage downwards, on bleeding, and add
 15 - 30 Hemorrhage when twist is used. Change Carve
 to increase current Hemorrhage by 50%, instead of
 bleeding.
[A: 7 R: 2] Solution #3: Change Exsanguinate to Critical gut, 600 Hemorrhage,
 and internal bleeding. These changes allow pureblade
 to focus on a strategy other than 'spam twist when
 you see bleeding on target', and gives them the
 chance to keep bleeding on target for long enough to
 use Twist at all, an issue that has been the bane of
 Pureblade since the overhaul.
Player Comments:
---[Danquik on 5/21 @ 16:25 writes]:
Diminishing returns on Hemorrhage should apply to Pureblades with these changes,
as well
---[Falaeron on 5/21 @ 23:55 writes]:
I think the concept of giving PB hemorrhaging as a mechanic is worth looking
into but I think all of the numbers are ridiculously high. Re Sol 1: PierceArm
and PinLeg are both light wound mods and with the change to allow 2Hers to do
both 5 wounds + a mod at the same time I think this will allow a Pureblade to
build hemorrhaging way too easily. Re Sol 2: I'm ok with the Twist part, but I
think Carve increasing hemorrhaging by a % of current bleeding is just going to
lead to a snowballing effect.
---[Shedrin on 5/22 @ 14:01 writes]:
Agree that the hemorrhaging numbers are too high. One thing to keep in mind is
that with 4 bodyparts available for pierce/pin and everything to Twist, it'll be
impossible to parry against. I think if you do 75 per pierce/pin, that makes it
take roughly the same amount of time to get to 600 as it takes to get to a crit
bodypart with no power attacks, ignoring parry and wounds reqs. So in a 'perfect
situation' it's slightly slower, but in practical cases, the bonus of being
spread across 4 bodyparts should make up for it. Alternatively, if the
hemorrhaging mod was moved to only gut, especially at heavy+, it would justify
higher hemorrhaging per hit. I would also remove the extra hemorrhaging from
Twist, just make it a damage move.
---[Danquik on 5/22 @ 17:27 writes]:
I did forget the 2hander change to give wounds + modifier, and numbers can be
adjusted in regards to that. Carve would never do more than 284 hemorrhage. It
is 50% of current hemmorhage, not current bleeding. The Twist giving Hemorrhage
can certainly be removed, my original thought was to gate Twist behind X amount
of Hemmorhage and not scale the damage. Wobou suggested scaling the damage and
have it give a small amount of Hemorrhage.
---[Danquik on 5/22 @ 17:29 writes]:
Also remember that hemorrhage cures itself at the rate of 100/10 seconds. My
original numbers were 75 per aff and recommended to 100. I am fine with 75
though if people feel that will work.
---[Shedrin on 5/23 @ 00:57 writes]:
My major concern will be with how it will stack in groups, which is hard to
gauge right now.
---[Danquik on 5/23 @ 22:00 writes]:
Currently PB already stacks well in groups, via twist. I don't think that
dynamic will change much through hemorrhage. Either they kill you via twist on
high bleed or they kill you on Twist or Exsanguinate via hemorrhage. It is one
of the reason I suggested applying diminishing returns to them.
---[Shedrin on 5/24 @ 16:08 writes]:
I missed that comment, that would solve any issues.
---[Ciaran on 6/1 @ 21:40 writes]:
In a general sense I think it's a reasonable direction to take PB, if it does
get approved, I'd like to have some time in the test server so that we can
adjust the numbers. I doubt we'll get them right without any testing.
---[Ciaran on 6/1 @ 21:42 writes]:
Also, I think the instakill should be at 750 hemorrhage, so as to align with
monks. This should make it easier to balance their wound build and stacking in
groups, as it will remain analogous to monks.
---[Tarken on 6/1 @ 22:18 writes]:
I'm fine with 75 per, but why not scale Hemorrhaging to the wound level. 50 at
light wounds, 75 at heavy, 100 at critical (numbers could potentially be raised
at heavy and critical if necessary). This would solve the unparriable nature, as
you could know with a good deal of certainty where the optimal places for them
to hit would be in order to achieve maximum Hemorrhage output. This also gives
pb a less standard warrior wounding build, which I think is a good thing.
---[Veyils on 6/1 @ 23:41 writes]:
I think the Hemorrhage should scale to wounds somewhat. Not sure about the
numbers but I worked out something similar for bonecrushers and just coping the
numbers I worked out over. As an example if you made it light 30, heavy 70,
critical 150. How this will work in practice is as follows. 30 hemorrhage at
light wounds simply wont build in a practical situation. Using top buffs a
warrior can strike at 3 seconds per combo. Forty two seconds in were talking
sitting at 14 combos uninterupted and 420 built and 400 cured at light.
Basically you wont build at light but light at 30 per combo is there to give you
a little something on top of bleed in group combat. At heavy 70 per combo were
talking about at 42 seconds of uninterrupted combos we'll have built 980 and
cured off 400. Leaving us at 580 hemorrhage. So if your talking at putting 600
as a kill requirement. Then your going to be building gut to critical then a
number of limbs to heavy then spending about a minute or so in building the
hemorrhaging. At critical we are talking about building to 850 the hemo cap on
the seventh uninterrupted combo. Putting a high hemorrhage requirement on
pureblade is going to be a hefty nerf to its instant kill unless they have super
high hemorrhaging but if they have super high hemorrhage then they could build
it and stack it too well.
---[Veyils on 6/1 @ 23:43 writes]:
Like even if your doing 150 hemorrhage at critical wounds. The pureblade has to
build the gut to critical then build a leg/arm to critical then build the
hemorrhaging. So your by adding hemorrhage your adding an extra layer of
attrition that pureblade need to build. #
---[Tarken on 6/2 @ 16:09 writes]:
I'm not sure the insta needs the critical gut requirement if it has a
hemorrhaging one. That's obviously a big divergence from other warrior specs,
but in practice its still going to require a predictable limb target reaching
critical wounds for the required hemorrhaging to be built. I think that's fine.
---[Veyils on 6/3 @ 15:29 writes]:
The wounding requirement at critical would be an effective requirement even if
you removed the actual requirement though Tarken. Internal bleed would be cured
at a quicker time than a warriors balance time at all wound levels except
critical. So even if you removed the actual critical requirement for the instant
kill if you kept internal bleeding in as a requirement then critical would still
be an "effective" requriement.
---[Ciaran on 6/5 @ 12:13 writes]:
You need the critical wound component to avoid monks plus one pureblade just
styling on people in groups.
---[Wobou on 6/6 @ 03:29 writes]:
I think these numbers are a good start. I like Tarken's idea of scaling
hemorrhaging with wounds and I also agree with Ciaran that you need a wound
requirement or a PB could just become an easier finisher for monks.
---[Falaeron on 6/11 @ 23:03 writes]:
I like Tarken's scaling numbers more. Means Pureblades would actually have to
work to get the fastest building hemorrhaging instead of just splitting between
light wounds on each limb.
---[Veyils on 6/16 @ 21:48 writes]:
Just on review I like the concept but 600 hemorrhaging seems high as an instant
kill requirement on top of critical wounds. I'm sort of thinking a lower
requirement and critical would be fine.
---[Ciaran on 6/18 @ 08:34 writes]:
I disagree. It should be 750, as with monks, but adjust their hemo-building rate
in order to account for that. Otherwise we'll be balancing hemo-build in groups
around two different numbers.
---[Anelissa on 6/30 @ 13:14 writes]:
I agree PB has some issues which need to be addressed, but I don't think hemo is
the answer. I'm ok with a different mechanic, unique to PB or implemented with
other knights at a future date, but I don't think PB alone should have better
synergy with monks over the other specs.