Report 1122

Report #1122
Skillset: Blademaster Skill: Haymaker
 Org: Paladins Status: Completed May 2013
Furies' Decision:
Solution 1.
Problem: Haymaker sees little to no use at its current power requirement and
cost. As per my testing, the skill works like this: Haymaker requires 10p to use
and does four swings at the targeted body part, hits of which cause normal
wounding. It will use power depending on how many hits go through (2p for 1 hit,
3p for 2 hits, 5p for 3 hits, 10p for 4 hits). Haymaker razes rebounding before
the four swings (shield blocks it). Report 6 suggests that it circumvents parry
and stance more easily than normal hits, but to be sure, more testing would be
needed. You cannot behead with Haymaker. So the power cost per attack is
slightly lower than for a lunge when you hit up to three times, the last hit
adds a whopping 5 power. That potentially high power cost and the fact that you
need 10p to even try the skill are its big downsides.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Reduce the power cost of Haymaker to 1/2/3/5 for
 1/2/3/4 successful hits.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: In addition to solution 1, make it possible to behead
 with Haymaker. This will require the skill to be used
 at 10p, and the behead is only possible if all four
 attacks hit (so only the fourth successful attack of
 the haymaker has that chance). In case of a
 successful behead, the skill costs the full 10p,
 otherwise 5p for 4 hits.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: Make Haymaker a defense that costs 5p and lasts 30
 seconds. During this time, the warrior will be in a
 berserker-like state which allows them to attack at
 50% increased speed. However, they will only be able
 to use swings, and those have a higher than normal
 chance to hit alternative body parts. Additionally to
 this, the warrior benefits from 40% shorter writhing
 time and stun duration while they keep up their
 attack spree. This means that, while the defense is
 active, each successful attack will provide 3 seconds
 of the protection or extend the duration of it to 3
 seconds.
Player Comments:
---[Daevos on 4/1 @ 00:57 writes]:
The power cost of Haymaker may be a little too high, but I don't believe that it
should be halved. The comparison that should be made here is against Pulp.
Report 773 has the last changes that were made to that skill. I'm not sure if
the separate attacks for each arm balance would be appropriate here but the max
power could be lowered to 8. It would shorten the cost of that last attack so
that it would be 2/3/5/8.
---[Veyrzhul on 4/1 @ 02:24 writes]:
Pulp is another skill that (almost) noone uses and is also on my chopping block
for changing. Or an attempt to. I think the best comparison in terms of power is
lunge, which does 60% increased wounding. That's 3.2 times the wounding of a
normal attack per lunge combo (4p) vs. 4 times for a full haymaker (10p right
now, 5p suggested). Lunge completely circumvents rebounding, stance and parry.
It would be okay to remove the increased stance/parry bypassing of haymaker if
the lower power cost gets approved, but in the tests I did, haymaker did get
completely blocked by stance or parry several times (all 4 hits), so it's not
THAT great against them.
---[Celina on 4/1 @ 15:35 writes]:
1 looks good! 2 I am wary of as I think group beheads are teetering (if not
past) the edge of too easy and quick. 3 is an April Fool's joke.
---[Shuyin on 4/2 @ 03:24 writes]:
1 is fine.
---[Dynami on 4/3 @ 18:02 writes]:
Solution 1 supported. Solution 2 and 3 not supported. Group beheadings would
become an even bigger problem through Solution 2 and Solution 3 is over the top.
---[Kregarn on 4/4 @ 17:25 writes]:
Solution 1
---[Thoros on 4/5 @ 13:18 writes]:
Solution 1 is fine, no to solution 2 and 3.
---[Rivius on 4/9 @ 22:13 writes]:
Haymaker has always been a problem skill, which is one of the reasons I think it
hasn't been touched in a long time. Solution 1 is a great improvement, but would
it be used? The way warriors work, I just don't see any situation where I'd
rather use Haymaker over well planned lunges. They're more power effective,
bypass stance and parry and easier to sustain wounding with. The burst nature of
Haymaker just doesn't fit in at all with the rest of Blademaster. Solution 2 is
something I've thought about, but ultimately have to side with the others that
this skill will just be used in groups for quicker beheadings (which isn't
needed or wanted). Solution 3 probably is over the top, but only because it
would only be used in groups where again, warriors don't need it. At the timing
of this post, I don't have better ideas on what to do with Haymaker, so I'll
support solution 1 for now. If there were ideas that could make this valuable
1v1, worthy of a trans-skill and balanced, I'd prefer that, as even with this
change no one will use it. Haymaker probably should be thrown out and redesigned
altogether.
---[Viynain on 4/16 @ 03:20 writes]:
I am still of the firm belief that Haymaker should be usable in a farmlands type
room and create quest hay when performed. Other than this, I disagree with
solutions 2 and 3 as they are too far-reaching, Solution 1 only.
---[Enyalida on 4/20 @ 22:55 writes]:
Solution 1 only, I'm with Rivius on this one with shooting for a redesign.
---[Llandros on 5/3 @ 15:50 writes]:
Solution 1, I think more than 5 power would be better though. No to solution 2
and 3 is ridiculous on a number of levels. It's op and I can't believe that the
weapon of choice for your average berserker would be a rapier.
---[Ushaara on 5/8 @ 11:01 writes]:
Sol. #1 supported.
---[Viynain on 5/13 @ 05:40 writes]:
*bump* Haymaker in farmlands rooms should totally make quest hay!
---[Synkarin on 5/20 @ 18:39 writes]:
Solution 1