105262-even-a-whiteknight-like-me-isnt-this-blind

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I have been a BIG supporter of this game. A lot of the people behind the art and even dungeon/raid design are amazingly talented.
 
The fact is, I am not even this blind....the game is in serious trouble, especially since drop 2.
 
Overnight my server alone went from booming to barely anyone in the major city.  I am very sad with how things are turning out for a game I have followed for so long and STILL WANT so badly for it to be a success.
 
Less people play every day (from my visuals in guild/circles and what I can see in my main city) queue times that used to be nearly instant ever since drop 2 have rocketed to 8-12 minutes. (PvP)
 
The game became a lot less fun all around...
 
I am just rambling at this point but Carbine, I know you are listening...please do whatever you can to save this potentially amazing game.	
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			being able to log in would be nice.	
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being able to log in would be nice.
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			not sure what server/faction you are on, but mine has not dispersed	
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not sure what server/faction you are on, but mine has not dispersed
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Look, here's the thing with posts like this.  A majority of you that aren't noticing the dwindling population is due to the fact that you're Exile on a large server like Stormtalon or Pergo.  Granted, not ALL of you are, but I'm willing to bet the ones that say there isn't any issues with a shrinking player base ARE Exile or on the largest pop servers.  I alted on 2 of the "dead" servers as Dominion and on both servers (Mikros / Rowsdower) I might as well have been playing a single player game.  I came across maybe 5 other players from the Arkship at lvl 1 through the entrance to Illium, and only encountered a handful of players while inside the main city.
 
Is EVERY server in a population crisis?  No.  There are some (Pergo, Stormtalon, Widow) that are doing fine.  But just because your server is doing fine, doesn't mean the rest of them are as well.
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Look, here's the thing with posts like this.  A majority of you that aren't noticing the dwindling population is due to the fact that you're Exile on a large server like Stormtalon or Pergo.  Granted, not ALL of you are, but I'm willing to bet the ones that say there isn't any issues with a shrinking player base ARE Exile or on the largest pop servers.  I alted on 2 of the "dead" servers as Dominion and on both servers (Mikros / Rowsdower) I might as well have been playing a single player game.  I came across maybe 5 other players from the Arkship at lvl 1 through the entrance to Illium, and only encountered a handful of players while inside the main city.
 
Is EVERY server in a population crisis?  No.  There are some (Pergo, Stormtalon, Widow) that are doing fine.  But just because your server is doing fine, doesn't mean the rest of them are as well.
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Look, here's the thing with posts like this.  A majority of you that aren't noticing the dwindling population is due to the fact that you're Exile on a large server like Stormtalon or Pergo.  Granted, not ALL of you are, but I'm willing to bet the ones that say there isn't any issues with a shrinking player base ARE Exile or on the largest pop servers.  I alted on 2 of the "dead" servers as Dominion and on both servers (Mikros / Rowsdower) I might as well have been playing a single player game.  I came across maybe 5 other players from the Arkship at lvl 1 through the entrance to Illium, and only encountered a handful of players while inside the main city.
 
Is EVERY server in a population crisis?  No.  There are some (Pergo, Stormtalon, Widow) that are doing fine.  But just because your server is doing fine, doesn't mean the rest of them are as well.
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Bloodsworn - Exile for those wondering what server/faction I am...
 
Went from booming to ghost town nearly over night.	
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Bloodsworn - Exile for those wondering what server/faction I am...
 
Went from booming to ghost town nearly over night.
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Look, here's the thing with posts like this.  A majority of you that aren't noticing the dwindling population is due to the fact that you're Exile on a large server like Stormtalon or Pergo.  Granted, not ALL of you are, but I'm willing to bet the ones that say there isn't any issues with a shrinking player base ARE Exile or on the largest pop servers.  I alted on 2 of the "dead" servers as Dominion and on both servers (Mikros / Rowsdower) I might as well have been playing a single player game.  I came across maybe 5 other players from the Arkship at lvl 1 through the entrance to Illium, and only encountered a handful of players while inside the main city.
 
Is EVERY server in a population crisis?  No.  There are some (Pergo, Stormtalon, Widow) that are doing fine.  But just because your server is doing fine, doesn't mean the rest of them are as well.
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Look, here's the thing with posts like this.  A majority of you that aren't noticing the dwindling population is due to the fact that you're Exile on a large server like Stormtalon or Pergo.  Granted, not ALL of you are, but I'm willing to bet the ones that say there isn't any issues with a shrinking player base ARE Exile or on the largest pop servers.  I alted on 2 of the "dead" servers as Dominion and on both servers (Mikros / Rowsdower) I might as well have been playing a single player game.  I came across maybe 5 other players from the Arkship at lvl 1 through the entrance to Illium, and only encountered a handful of players while inside the main city.
 
Is EVERY server in a population crisis?  No.  There are some (Pergo, Stormtalon, Widow) that are doing fine.  But just because your server is doing fine, doesn't mean the rest of them are as well.
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Kind of wish Wildstar would take another page from EVE's playbook and put active player numbers on their servers so we had an idea of how many people are in the game on each faction at any one time.  It would at least answer some questions that I'm only becoming more and more sure we don't have reliable data to answer.
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If you think the game is just fine because 3 out of how many servers are doing ok (Not even reaching high anymore) you are in denial....
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is it only three servers? unless you have definitive proof thats all it is then they may not be the only one in denial
 
from what I hear it is far more than three... and not many of the pvp (heart and soul of the game servers) that are that active, but pve and rp servers.
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If you think the game is just fine because 3 out of how many servers are doing ok (Not even reaching high anymore) you are in denial....
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*facepalm*
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not sure what server/faction you are on, but mine has not dispersed
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EvE can do that because they have ONE server
one (hold up one finger that is how many that is)
 
if you have just ONE, its easy to post server numbers
 
if you have just ONE thing going on, its pretty easy to post how many people are logged into that ONE thing.
 
compare apples to apples.
 
usually I dont disagree entirely with what you say but this one thing... completely out of touch with the differences between ONE thing and many
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well.. what only three servers are you thinking have a population? or are you facepalming because you have nothing to back up your statement?
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 There are some (Pergo, Stormtalon, Widow) that are doing fine. 
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Listen man, the 3 servers were already listed....
 
But I understand what you are doing...I really do. You are trying as hard as you can to defend the same thing I have been...that the game is fine, everything is good etc....
 
You going out swinging on the forums will not bring the population up magically...There are so many signs that the game is doing poorly and you know it, you see them..and sitting here screamin you don't won't change it.
 
Carbine knows what their major issues are and I just hope they fix them because I don't want this game to die either. I love the game and I wanna see it grow but this last patch has really hurt them. Servers are emptying, that is just a fact and like I said you can sit here and kick and scream and haunt this forum until your fingers are numb, but that wont change anything...
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Not sure where you're getting that Evindra is the best server in the game currently, but you're right about the perception bit.  It's all about how we perceive things. However, if I notice that a server that was full of people in Illium and the two daily zones a month ago suddenly has only a handful of players in all three combined, I'm going to assume the game is dying.  When we are getting multiple threads daily from people on nearly every server it might be because we're all just choosing to see it that way, or it might be because the game is actually dying rather quickly and most of the servers are becoming virtual ghost towns.  One of my good friends cancelled his sub specifically because he felt as if the game's population has died out already and doesn't feel like wasting his time on the game.  That right there  is an issue.  If players are quitting over there being no other players, perception or not, it's a big red flag that something needs to be done.
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EvE can do that because they have ONE server
one (hold up one finger that is how many that is)
 
if you have just ONE, its easy to post server numbers
 
if you have just ONE thing going on, its pretty easy to post how many people are logged into that ONE thing.
 
compare apples to apples.
 
usually I dont disagree entirely with what you say but this one thing... completely out of touch with the differences between ONE thing and many
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girl actually but not hugely important. but pointing out an assumption.
 
I am not defending anything, I am asking for FACTS which you havent supplied any. I am hardly saying the game is great, just asking for... facts. which you seem reticent to supply
 
supply facts, thats all I ask... what servers? you said only three. so what three? you have the information apparently...so...supply it.
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No reason it wouldn't work to at least monitor each individual server.
 
The numbers would be smaller because they are multiple smaller servers, but I'm sure they'd add up to more than the 28-46k people EVE has online at any given time.  At the very least, we'd have the information we'd need to make an assumption about populations.
 
The reason I'm reticent about all this is because Carbine has all the numbers; they're perfectly in position to give their community as polite of a we-told-you-so as they can and merge servers back together.  They aren't.  Which makes me wonder, logically, what they know that we don't.  The only reason I can think of to not merge servers is publicity, which doesn't make sense in a game two months old.
 
At the very least, it's better than judging the financial health of the game.  As far as we players go, even if there are a million subscribed players all over the world, the servers will feel empty if only 100-200k are logged in.  And, to be fair to the people who are raising these complaints, that's a problem for us, not Carbine.  If Bloodsworn has a full set of subscribers, but they don't see fit to log in any more than a few hours a week on their CREDD, then Carbine and the game could be perfectly fine and the players on that server could STILL have issues.
 
It's one reason I don't think these threads should be completely ignored.  If there's one thing I've said about Wildstar lately, it's that they need to give people a reason to log in every day, not play to cap and log out.  A server whose players are barely ever logged in might not hurt Carbine, but it does hurt the game.
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I know carbine is pretty incompetent but saying that they don't have the tools to count how many people are online? That's taking it to a next level of black knighting.
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			What I'm most baffled about is how the hell an MMO gets released in TYOOL 2014 without a 'proper' /who functionality. Would be a bit easier gauging the active server populations then.	
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So the question isn't whether the population has fallen since launch, it's by how much?  Considering Carbine has yet to merge any servers or open free server transfers yet (despite having every good excuse to do so), I wonder how "dead" the servers actually are or whether Carbine just figures people will sort it out first.  I can't imagine they'd want to keep virtually empty servers online (they cost money and time to maintain) and they have access to more data than we do.
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It's a perception thing.  Honestly, if you're ready to leave a game because people are leaving, I've got serious reservations.  Why would game population matter to whether or not you enjoy the game?  If anything, wait for the inevitable server transfers if it's a reality.
 
And, to be fair, we get multiple threads daily saying that people are leaving for a bevy of reasons.  Hell, some people have "quit" three or four times already (which is weird considering you would have only had to subscribe for two months).  So try not to get too caught up in the histrionics.
 
All that we really know, for sure, is that every MMORPG starts with a giant boom in population, dies off, then slowly gains back population after it builds up its reputation.  Carbine got hit with a MUCH more successful launch than they thought they would.  Hell, they weren't prepared for either box sales or CREDD to be the successes they were, and servers lined up queue times.  It was the number one complaint at first, that Carbine didn't have enough servers.  In fact, if you go back that far, you'd see people literally saying, "I would rather have lowpop servers and mergers later than have to wait however many gajillion hours in queue now."  So Carbine opened servers, the population flooded in, evened out, and the eventual population decline hit when some people just decided they didn't like how the game played.
 
So the question isn't whether the population has fallen since launch, it's by how much?  Considering Carbine has yet to merge any servers or open free server transfers yet (despite having every good excuse to do so), I wonder how "dead" the servers actually are or whether Carbine just figures people will sort it out first.  I can't imagine they'd want to keep virtually empty servers online (they cost money and time to maintain) and they have access to more data than we do.
 
On the other hand, as I've said, low active server populations are still important for the social aspects of games.  I think the biggest question is, "Whether or not it's the server population that's low or not, why are people feeling this way?"  Is it because high initial turnover gutted guilds in half and it's hard to recover?  Is it because it takes so many more people so much more time at endgame to get into raid shape?  Is it because there's so little filler activity yet that people feel obligated to do group activities and are having trouble with finding people due to the social tools?  I know circles are very underutilized social tools.
 
I'm sort of falling into the camp that it's not a good thing and there may be answers to it, but I'm not going to try to extrapolate data just yet.  People have said this game was on the cusp of death since it was released, so maybe I've become calloused to the accusation.  I just tend to think that people don't post if there's a problem, but it's rarely what people say it is.
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EvE can do that because they have ONE server
one (hold up one finger that is how many that is)
 
if you have just ONE, its easy to post server numbers
 
if you have just ONE thing going on, its pretty easy to post how many people are logged into that ONE thing.
 
compare apples to apples.
 
usually I dont disagree entirely with what you say but this one thing... completely out of touch with the differences between ONE thing and many
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No offense, but you have no "facts" either to support your notion.
 
No one can possible have any "facts" until Carbine gives out such information, which will probably never happen outside of providing exaggerated/disingenuous sub numbers.
 
Here's a "fact" though: Last night, Saturday, during primetime evening hours, there were ONLY 3 servers that were "medium", while the rest were all "low".
 
I play on Pergo, which was one of those "medium" servers. The population decrease was so noticeable, that whenever anyone actually talked in one of the chat channels, that's what they were talking about 90% of the time.
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Lol? 
 
The only reason that they're not merging servers right now is the same reason basically every MMO in existence refuses to merge servers - perception. Taking into consideration the game is only 2 months old, the perception of server merges would be that much worse.
 
It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they're actually needed, which they are. It has everything to do with how it looks.
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			It's also a can of worms because people that actually used paid server transfer to get off a dead server will be pissed off that they wasted money, if a server merge were to happen.	
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so, question is, is it a faction decrease? as in dominion? since I have certainly seen enough people saying "come to Pergo" and "pergo is fine" posts
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and yet, you still refuse to supply anything to back your position. fair enough.
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lolwut?
 
Irony much?
 
 
No, you haven't.
 
I have a 50 on both factions. Go ahead, log in on Exile side and go to Thayd. Then tell me that medium pop is "fine".
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One of the big reasons they're not merging servers is because it drives the sale of server merges bought via the games store for 20$ a piece per character.  Will server merges happen eventually?  Of that I have no doubt.  But until then they're going to stay where they're at and make people either dump 20$ to transfer, or spend countless hours rerolling which hopefully gets them another month sub, if not more.
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I am not saying its my personal experience. I said there have been posts saying it is fine.
 
I have zero interest in making a character on a pvp server.
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I feel like you have some sort of hatred towards pvp players. This is a toxic attitude. Please fix it.
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They could do what DAoC did in it's prime.
The game had three factions.
When you went to choose a server, it gave you a basic rundown of how populated each server was in accordance to the factions.  IIRC it was a bar graph that had 6 slots per faction, the higher the bar graph for that faction was, the more players that were playing that faction.  It gave you a very, very good idea of what faction dominated what servers.
 
To help with this, the lower population factions got significant experience boosts that the high pop faction did not receive (but that was because generally the high pop faction held all the max level PVP relics that gave a faction-wide exp/dmg/health buff)
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I dont pvp, that doesnt mean I have a toxic attitude towards it, I just dont participate.
 
please fix your assumptions ^^
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			Factions are an obsolete idea. Make the game set up so that players make their own factions via guilds and alliances of guilds.	
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Factions are an obsolete idea. Make the game set up so that players make their own factions via guilds and alliances of guilds.
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typically that would require a core change which is unlikely once a game is released
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I've seen the server list go from Full/High to High/Medium to Medium/Low to now all just Low.  This isn't up for debate, everyone can witness this and it's fact.  Since drop 2 the pvp times have become obscene.  10 minutes?  Nope.  Not when a match can take 5 if you get stomped....especially when your team might have 3-5+ bots. 
 
Stormtalon exile is fine. Dom?  Dead.
Pergo dom is fine.  Exile? Extinct.
Widow. Not sure of honestly. 
 
That's 3 servers. Three.  Server mergers need to happen soon.  I said this game would be f2p in 6 months time given NCSoft's track record with mmo's and it's really looking like this is going to be the case.  Right now, there is no reason to pay a sub to this game.	
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They pretty much broke PvP this patch instead of fixing it and that to many is the final straw.
 
All that hype claiming drop 2 would be the 'jesus' patch that would save PvP, make it more fair, and fun for all; whoops, they made it 10x worse instead.
 
Impressive!
 
Yea, my server still has quite a few PvE people still but the PvP crowd has pretty much threw up their hands in collective disgust and have given up.	
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They have no financial reason to keep those servers consuming money, time, and labor worth public perception of a game that people outside the MMORPG world barely know exists.
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Shareholders.
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I'm fairly sure their shareholders have access to better metrics than chatter on game forums.
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They pretty much broke PvP this patch instead of fixing it and that to many is the final straw.
 
All that hype claiming drop 2 would be the 'jesus' patch that would save PvP, make it more fair, and fun for all; whoops, they made it 10x worse instead.
 
Impressive!
 
Yea, my server still has quite a few PvE people still but the PvP crowd has pretty much threw up their hands in collective disgust and have given up.
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I'm fairly sure their shareholders have access to better metrics than chatter on game forums.
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Being a shareholder just means you get access to quarterly reports and shareholder meetings, it's not a magical title that gives you inside access to the workings of a company. Hell, you can go become a shareholder tomorrow when the trading floor hits and see for yourself.
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I am technically a shareholder and have absolutely no idea what the company is doing.  They send me my dividend and it's however much it is.
 
I didn't buy it.
 
I'm just saying that I highly doubt they'd really care about whether competing MMORPG gamers thought a game was dying, so they don't care either way.  And since Carbine's technically part of NCSoft, they only care how NCSoft's doing overall.
 
Makes you feel small as a Wildstar gamer, knowing how few people really seriously play video games, how few play MMORPGs, and how small each individual game is.
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typically that would require a core change which is unlikely once a game is released
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Not at all.  Look at Rift, for example.  The factions were as much at war with one another as they are in Wildstar, one being severely oppressed by the other.  Most of the games story and lore revolves around the two fighting factions, but they eventually changed the way the system worked and allowed for guilds to have characters from both factions, letting you do PvE stuff (like raids) and PVP stuff (like their Conquest system, which was basically 3 teams of 40) with people of opposing factions, as well as maintaining the 'hatred' the factions have for one another with open world pvp and story quests.  Both factions still had their respective major cities and starter zones, but it really boosted the games community and made it feel a lot more populated and active than it did prior to the merging.
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I am technically a shareholder and have absolutely no idea what the company is doing.  They send me my dividend and it's however much it is.
 
I didn't buy it.
 
I'm just saying that I highly doubt they'd really care about whether competing MMORPG gamers thought a game was dying, so they don't care either way.  And since Carbine's technically part of NCSoft, they only care how NCSoft's doing overall.
 
Makes you feel small as a Wildstar gamer, knowing how few people really seriously play video games, how few play MMORPGs, and how small each individual game is.
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Not at all.  Look at Rift, for example.  The factions were as much at war with one another as they are in Wildstar, one being severely oppressed by the other.  Most of the games story and lore revolves around the two fighting factions, but they eventually changed the way the system worked and allowed for guilds to have characters from both factions, letting you do PvE stuff (like raids) and PVP stuff (like their Conquest system, which was basically 3 teams of 40) with people of opposing factions, as well as maintaining the 'hatred' the factions have for one another with open world pvp and story quests.  Both factions still had their respective major cities and starter zones, but it really boosted the games community and made it feel a lot more populated and active than it did prior to the merging.
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I love how Rift is constantly the example of doing things right. I loved that game so much, and if they did some weird re-release of the game before Storm Legion/f2p, I would hop back to it in a heartbeat.
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I've seen the server list go from Full/High to High/Medium to Medium/Low to now all just Low.  This isn't up for debate, everyone can witness this and it's fact.  Since drop 2 the pvp times have become obscene.  10 minutes?  Nope.  Not when a match can take 5 if you get stomped....especially when your team might have 3-5+ bots. 
 
Stormtalon exile is fine. Dom?  Dead.
Pergo dom is fine.  Exile? Extinct.
Widow. Not sure of honestly. 
 
That's 3 servers. Three.  Server mergers need to happen soon.  I said this game would be f2p in 6 months time given NCSoft's track record with mmo's and it's really looking like this is going to be the case.  Right now, there is no reason to pay a sub to this game.
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thats if you care. I play to enjoy myself. and as long as the people I play with are having fun and I am, my support is there. SOE had my loyalty as I first played their games and they blasted that to bits. since then my loyalty isnt in any game, except the ones I can have fun playing.
 
until its no longer fun playing Wildstar, they have my money. I could care less what the company does
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eventually being the key term here
 
far longer than 2 months in I am guessing
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Then that's a concern to bring up at the next shareholder's meeting. Lack of awareness of the activity of the company. Demand new executives, call for a vote to replace to the board. Demand to know what they're doing with your money. You're literally entitled to know, and not the "waaa entitled gamer" line that whiteknights love to throw around.
 
Companies use shareholders as an excuse to say, "We have to make money to appease the shareholders". Poor decisions that make money in the short-term? Did it for the shareholders. Replacing senior employees? Did it for the shareholders. Etc, etc. And to a degree it's true, shareholders invest their money to get more money back. If the players think a game is dying, and if it is dying, then the shareholders DO care that their investment is not making money.
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When it happened is irrelevant to it being something that you claimed needed a core change which is unlikely after launch.  
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Honestly Rift's only big mistake was that it was an MMO coming out after WoW.  Just about everything in the game was how MMO's should be.  From the class / soul system, the role system (letting you have 5 specs that you can switch on the fly), the macro system, the actual dungeons and raiding being some of the best dungeons/raiding I've ever experienced in MMO's, to the lore and all kinds of other stuff that I'm failing to mention.  No one really gave Rift a chance, and those of us that did -for the most part- loved it.
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When it happened is irrelevant to it being something that you claimed needed a core change which is unlikely after launch.  
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what I am saying is any change they decide to make.... isnt happening now.
 
if they are going to make a core change it certainly would not be within two months of release no matter how fervently you want it to be
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How do you know?  For all we know, they could be planning a faction merger of sorts for the drop with raid that holds The Entity as it effects all of Nexus, not just the Dominion or the Scumbags Exile.
 
It's not likely to happen, but it's not going to take much to happen, either.
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			@OP, you are going to have to be specific on what things you believe are killing the game.	
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It'd probably be doing just fine now if it wasn't right after WoW.  The standard for "success" was impossibly high.  I think that's been toned down a lot.  Plenty of "failures" are doing just fine so long after.  Even the F2P games that have a sub to play the "real" game are packing quite a few subscribers and making a lot of money.
 
I heard Rift was good.  I wanted to try it, but didn't have enough room on my game schedule to really try it.
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they very well could be rewriting the entire code to do just that. but armchair developing or predicting is not going to make it happen. its their call, not ours
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they very well could be rewriting the entire code to do just that. but armchair developing or predicting is not going to make it happen. its their call, not ours
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They wouldn't have to re-write the entire code just to do that.  In fact, I'd be willing to bet it wouldn't be much coding at all to do it.  Certainly less coding than it takes to create entire new Ultra Drops worth of content.
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I admire your devotion to white knighting man, but you are beginning to look silly with the amount of stretching you are doing.
 
Like I said earlier, I have been where you are with this game....I have white knighted the heck out of it and even convinced all my friends to play it....
 
No matter how much you kick and scream on the forums and try to play down every complaint....you wont do a thing but hurt the game...the people who are bringing up the real issues/concerns without rose colored glasses on will invoke change with the devs...NOT the person going "OH NO EVERYTHING IS PERFECT" even though it is very much apparent people are leaving and this months renewal (again visually) has not been great.
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well, considering it affects pvp then the people doing that would have to suddenly cope with the loss of factions for one. then auctions, mailing
 
I suspects there is far more code dealing with that than you imagine
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Have you ever done any coding or have a history of coding?
 
Cause I have, and while I may have never written or coded on a fully fledged MMO (or any MMO, for that matter), I have coded on programs that have either or functions.  You're either Dominion or you're Exile.  I can almost guarantee you that unless they did some really, really ass-backwards way of coding there's going to be a very small amount of coding somewhere that's essentially "If character = exile then y=0, if character= exile then y=1" which then translates to "if character is y=1 then they can use ABC, else they can use DEF" into the things like mailing, /who, friend lists, auctions, so on and so forth.  Granted I'm over simplifying it, but when the devs for a game that did this (with no real intention on ever doing it in the first place) said that it didn't take more than a few days of coding/QA/testing before it was ready, I'm fairly certain it would be similar for Wildstar.
 
But this is all irrelevant to the topic at hand, anyway.
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{| class="blockquote"
Have you ever done any coding or have a history of coding?
 
Cause I have, and while I may have never written or coded on a fully fledged MMO (or any MMO, for that matter), I have coded on programs that have either or functions.  You're either Dominion or you're Exile.  I can almost guarantee you that unless they did some really, really ass-backwards way of coding there's going to be a very small amount of coding somewhere that's essentially "If character = exile then y=0, if character= exile then y=1" which then translates to "if character is y=1 then they can use ABC, else they can use DEF" into the things like mailing, /who, friend lists, auctions, so on and so forth.  Granted I'm over simplifying it, but when the devs for a game that did this (with no real intention on ever doing it in the first place) said that it didn't take more than a few days of coding/QA/testing before it was ready, I'm fairly certain it would be similar for Wildstar.
 
But this is all irrelevant to the topic at hand, anyway.
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			Loved Rift...for the first 8 months. But I got tired of the raid or die mentality and burned out big time where I was raiding 6-7 days a week. As it so happens, my entire guild imploded b/c most them were burned out too. Then there was PvP which I didn't enjoy much in Rift (1 button dps/heal macros ftl) so that sealed the deal. Then I moved on over to ToR and PvPed for 4 months solid before that too burned me out...there is only so many times I can play huttball vs the same people on my faction over and over. Still, that PvP system was miles better than here by a long shot: I pugged to BM and at around lvl 76 4 months later I had a fancy new mount and a full set of sweet gear. 2 months later in WS, I am still wearing shitty blue junk with no hope of getting better unless I a ) pay for yet another transfer b ) pay more for a carry. That right there is why I am so damn frustrated with this game, gross class imbalances and over tuned PvP heal nerfs aside.	
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Pretty much, the timing on Rift killed it more than anything else.  As for the other point, look at DCUO for example.  You can't do much of anything after you hit the level cap in that game without buying a ton of DLC or being a subscriber, and that's currently one of the highest grossing MMO's on the market.  Which, for the record, went F2P only about 6 months post launch - after hearing from the devs for months leading up to (and after) the release of the game that it would never go f2p.
 
And if PvE is your thing, if you're a big fan of raiding then you should check out Rift.  Or at least check out some videos of the end raid boss fights (Akylios, Crucia, Regulos are some of my favorite encounters of all time) that you might have missed out on.  I haven't played the game in over a year so I don't really know the state it's in now, but that doesn't change the fact that the pre-expansion raids (and the first two raids in the expansion) were amazing.
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Look, here's the thing with posts like this.  A majority of you that aren't noticing the dwindling population is due to the fact that you're Exile on a large server like Stormtalon or Pergo.  Granted, not ALL of you are, but I'm willing to bet the ones that say there isn't any issues with a shrinking player base ARE Exile or on the largest pop servers.  I alted on 2 of the "dead" servers as Dominion and on both servers (Mikros / Rowsdower) I might as well have been playing a single player game.  I came across maybe 5 other players from the Arkship at lvl 1 through the entrance to Illium, and only encountered a handful of players while inside the main city.
 
Is EVERY server in a population crisis?  No.  There are some (Pergo, Stormtalon, Widow) that are doing fine.  But just because your server is doing fine, doesn't mean the rest of them are as well.
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well, thinking it has potential and having fun apparently labels you as a white knight and open to criticism.
 
the only way to avoid that apparently is to hate the game, press for what YOU want and not have any fun except abusing others on the forums.
 
not sure you can do that since unlike many you appear rational.
 
VicVanMeter said:
 
I have a good feeling about Wildstar, of all the new crop, it has the highest possible ceiling because its just so damn fun to play.  And I won't be the person telling you its perfect, in fact I daresay there are some very glaring problems with Wildstar.  But its biggest problem is its lack of history, and its best cure will be time.  If Carbine keeps plugging away, keeps doing what they've been doing, and answers the specific and real feedback from its dedicated fans without sacrificing its core value, in a year, I wouldn't be surprised if it was looking at a million subs.   Unlike every other genre of game, which thrives or dies on the initial sales and can survive on hype alone, an MMORPG lives and dies over time on the strength of its long term development.  If Wildstar had five million accounts at launch, it wouldn't prove it would have any after a year.  If it had no more than 100k accounts, it wouldn't prove it wouldn't be the new WoW.  For now, all we really know is that it's doing fine, but that the people leaving do have real issues that could be addressed to improve the game.
 
I think, if one thing about the community disappoints me, it's a forum's tendency towards irrational hyperbole and factionalism.  Nobody on these forums hopes Wildstar dies, they all want it to thrive.  Most people just aren't very good at articulating their criticism.	
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The fact that you personally aren't experiencing a problem does NOT mean that no problem exists.
 
I use the term 'you'  in the general sense, not you specifically.   :)
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{| class="blockquote"
By the same token, the fact that you perceive a problem does NOT mean that it exists. 
 
A million players could log in at different times and think their servers were abandoned...
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{| class="blockquote"
By the same token, the fact that you perceive a problem does NOT mean that it exists. 
 
A million players could log in at different times and think their servers were abandoned...
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{| class="blockquote"
By the same token, the fact that you perceive a problem does NOT mean that it exists. 
 
A million players could log in at different times and think their servers were abandoned...
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And from their perspective, they'd be right. They're experiencing the same effect as if no one else was playing at all. That's something that can be fixed with clever design, simply tossing up a queue that makes 5 people log in at once, or other methods. The point being, while the cause may not be what they think it is, they're all feeling the same effect, and it's not their fault for that happening.
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{| class="blockquote"
By the same token, the fact that you perceive a problem does NOT mean that it exists. 
 
A million players could log in at different times and think their servers were abandoned...
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{| class="blockquote"
They wouldn't be right, they'd be ignorant
 
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I think that it makes no difference if the problem is simply percieved or if it is really there.  A player can still end up quitting even if it is a matter of perception.  It might make them an idiot if their method of determining server pop is lets say....standing in front of the AH 6 hours after prime time.  But that doesnt really matter because smart or dumb that's one less person in the game.  
 
That is why in threads like these i keep saying that we need more or better in game tools for seeing what the server pop is.  At this point though it might actually be a bad idea to give us those tools because we may not end up liking what we see.
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Jump off a cliff, then 'perceive' a reality in which gravity doesn't exist. Get back to me with your results.
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{| class="blockquote"
Look, here's the thing with posts like this.  A majority of you that aren't noticing the dwindling population is due to the fact that you're Exile on a large server like Stormtalon or Pergo.  Granted, not ALL of you are, but I'm willing to bet the ones that say there isn't any issues with a shrinking player base ARE Exile or on the largest pop servers.  I alted on 2 of the "dead" servers as Dominion and on both servers (Mikros / Rowsdower) I might as well have been playing a single player game.  I came across maybe 5 other players from the Arkship at lvl 1 through the entrance to Illium, and only encountered a handful of players while inside the main city.
 
Is EVERY server in a population crisis?  No.  There are some (Pergo, Stormtalon, Widow) that are doing fine.  But just because your server is doing fine, doesn't mean the rest of them are as well.
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{| class="blockquote"
I think that it makes no difference if the problem is simply percieved or if it is really there.  A player can still end up quitting even if it is a matter of perception.  It might make them an idiot if their method of determining server pop is lets say....standing in front of the AH 6 hours after prime time.  But that doesnt really matter because smart or dumb that's one less person in the game.  
 
That is why in threads like these i keep saying that we need more or better in game tools for seeing what the server pop is.  At this point though it might actually be a bad idea to give us those tools because we may not end up liking what we see.
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Honestly they need to focus on FIXING things that have been broken since beta before they try adding new shit. We need more than a patch once a month. It's feeling like Battlefield 4.
 
 
Seriously, why does the /who command not work? This is a core feature of MMOs yet in this one it does absolutely nothing, and the devs haven't even acknowledged it. There are so many things like that that are just broken, but don't get any mention from the devs.	
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What is the real benefit of closing your eyes, plug your ears and sing LALALALALA real loud as if the game doesn't have glaring issues that should have been ready out of the gate?
 
Bear in mind, these people had almost 9 full years of development, a Beta period where thousands of us pointed Bugs that still exist within the game two months later. I was one of the people that fell in love instantly and pestered every Game Website to get a Beta Key, but you can't really ignore reality.
 
Go take a look at the Drop 3 Patch Notes and point to me ONE, just ONE, QoL fix that adresses many of the things that players have pointed out, reasonably explained and then frantically screamed at the Devs. I'll save you the time, there's isn't even one.
 
At this point the Devs are Listening... to the YouTubers that get paid to play with them on their Nexus shows. And they play a whooole different game from you and me.	
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{| class="blockquote"
What is the real benefit of closing your eyes, plug your ears and sing LALALALALA real loud as if the game doesn't have glaring issues that should have been ready out of the gate?
 
Bear in mind, these people had almost 9 full years of development, a Beta period where thousands of us pointed Bugs that still exist within the game two months later. I was one of the people that fell in love instantly and pestered every Game Website to get a Beta Key, but you can't really ignore reality.
 
Go take a look at the Drop 3 Patch Notes and point to me ONE, just ONE, QoL fix that adresses many of the things that players have pointed out, reasonably explained and then frantically screamed at the Devs. I'll save you the time, there's isn't even one.
 
At this point the Devs are Listening... to the YouTubers that get paid to play with them on their Nexus shows. And they play a whooole different game from you and me.
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{| class="blockquote"
I didn't have to look that far.
The following spells no longer target the highest priority spells, instead they target the most recently applied spells:CleansesEngineer: Shatter Impairment (T8), Esper: Catharsis. Medic: Antidote, Spellslinger: Purify, Stalker: Tactical Retreat, Warrior: Expulsion
PurgesEsper: Catharsis (T8), Medic: Dematerialize, Spellslinger: Arcane Shock (T8)
Honestly, though, most of the big fixes the community complains about gets dropped in between patches.  I think Carbine is understandably concerned that if they figure out how to fix something people have been clamoring about, they're better off just implementing it ASAP rather than letting it sit in a patch.
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{| class="blockquote"
The issue here Vic is quite evident. Many of these fixes are the same ones they try to fix in every patch and end up breaking something else. Aside from the Scavenging change that you (and I as well) loved so much, there's isn't one quality of life fix in the next drop or in any of the subsequent fixes so far. How long do you think we as players need to wait for things that were reported as far back as CBT3?
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{| class="blockquote"
I have been a BIG supporter of this game. A lot of the people behind the art and even dungeon/raid design are amazingly talented.
 
The fact is, I am not even this blind....the game is in serious trouble, especially since drop 2.
 
Overnight my server alone went from booming to barely anyone in the major city.  I am very sad with how things are turning out for a game I have followed for so long and STILL WANT so badly for it to be a success.
 
Less people play every day (from my visuals in guild/circles and what I can see in my main city) queue times that used to be nearly instant ever since drop 2 have rocketed to 8-12 minutes. (PvP)
 
The game became a lot less fun all around...
 
I am just rambling at this point but Carbine, I know you are listening...please do whatever you can to save this potentially amazing game.
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{| class="blockquote"
I didn't have to look that far.
The following spells no longer target the highest priority spells, instead they target the most recently applied spells:CleansesEngineer: Shatter Impairment (T8), Esper: Catharsis. Medic: Antidote, Spellslinger: Purify, Stalker: Tactical Retreat, Warrior: Expulsion
PurgesEsper: Catharsis (T8), Medic: Dematerialize, Spellslinger: Arcane Shock (T8)
Honestly, though, most of the big fixes the community complains about gets dropped in between patches.  I think Carbine is understandably concerned that if they figure out how to fix something people have been clamoring about, they're better off just implementing it ASAP rather than letting it sit in a patch.
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MMO jumpers are jumping off the wildstar ship... that's all,
 
happens for every single game.. even World of warcraft win and loose several million subscribers inbetwen expansions.
 
It's moreorso hopeless to try to keep these guys around, as their attention span isn't really suited for long term.	
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{| class="blockquote"
MMO jumpers are jumping off the wildstar ship... that's all,
 
happens for every single game.. even World of warcraft win and loose several million subscribers inbetwen expansions.
 
It's moreorso hopeless to try to keep these guys around, as their attention span isn't really suited for long term.
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			well given all the games you listed but one still have players playing them and new content coming out all i can say is plz stfu game is fine	
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{| class="blockquote"
well given all the games you listed but one still have players playing them and new content coming out all i can say is plz stfu game is fine
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lmao
 
I forgot how a game is now "fine" just because it has new content every once in awhile  :rolleyes:
 
The amount of delusion on these forums is hilarious. Only here will you see games like Rift are fine.
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I hate to always be like this, in fact its just the last oh 5 or so years of MMOing.
 
The game isn't finished, drops being super pushed as something amazing added nothing, I literally went to a new *slice* of the strain drop took me all of 4 minutes to look at.
 
No 2200 gear, no BG 1800 Gear, Warriors were 1 trick ponies that rocked pvp and looking at them now throroughly, there boring super boring.
 
I think a lot of people are White Knights at heart and we want something to be great, I did it for a long time. I saw the good in everything.
 
Now, I just stare at the bad side and wonder why it keeps getting larger than the good side.
 
 
Games being released this early unfinished this small, with this many bugs, and this bad of customer and forum support and charging 65$ + the early access fees.
 
AFAIC I Everquest 1 as it was at launch was released VS This game in its current state, I would be out of here.
 
How many years did they spend on this game? What did you do...spend them all on visuals?
 
Honestly I don't know what to expect anymore, I can only imagine it's going to get worse.
 
I mean come on, I watched the wildstar twitch report/stream and the guys on it looked like kids that chose this career because their first love was WoW.
 
Someones first love will be Wildstar and 10 yrs from now the standards will be even lower.
 
 
It's history people.
 
Look back at what was great BEFORE WoW, all WoW did was market like crazy.
 
Before WoW I never seen a PC Game advertised especially not Everquest.
 
Imagine if Everquest would have advertised like WoW back in the day..it would have been way bigger than it was.
 
EQ still holds the flame over any game since I've played, don't get me wrong I've had good times but that game was very well built and expanded upon in good fashion, not tiny little crap storms of content falling out of the sky.
 
White Knight turned angry gamer signing off	
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			A swing and a miss!	
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{| class="blockquote"
The game isn't finished
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OP ( and others with the same view ),
 
Do you think it may be more indicative of the "player base" these days.
 
We live in the age of modernity, relativism, and immediate gratification.  People are unnecessarily selfish and jaded ( in general ), attention spans are "short".
 
IMHO, it seems to speak more of people not wishing to "commit" to anything and "put in some work".  Another contributing factor is the impersonal nature of the internet and the disposable and objectifying way people treat each other.  It's Machiavelli on steroids! :P
 
Patience is a virtue.  I suggest we all ( myself included ) exercise this in any game we play these days.  I also suggest being more friendly and engaging with people you meet in the virtual realm.  Your "little action of kindness" can and does engender people to continue to wish to revisit the game world you are playing.
 
So no matter what game you play or wherever you go in life ( beside remembering "there you are" ), reach out, risk, open your self, do your part to "change the world" and you may be surprised at the results! ;)	
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{| class="blockquote"
Patience is a virtue.  I suggest we all ( myself included ) exercise this in any game we play these days.  I also suggest being more friendly and engaging with people you meet in the virtual realm.  Your "little action of kindness" can and does engender people to continue to wish to revisit the game world you are playing.
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Valnak,
 
Alas I don't think that if things were changed to your liking in the next 10mins that you would be satisfied.  Hence the explanation of the "age we live in" in my second parasentence. :P
 
Nothing will satisfy you as long as you hold on to your current views ... nothing.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Valnak,
 
Alas I don't think that if things were changed to your liking in the next 10mins that you would be satisfied.  Hence the explanation of the "age we live in" in my second parasentence. :P
 
Nothing will satisfy you as long as you hold on to your current views ... nothing.
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			While it is true that we will never be satisfied with things of this world, adopting an attitude of permanent boredom tends toward enuii.  Feud, Nietzsche, Sartre, Marx, et. al (the fathers of Modernity), were in error.  I would reconsider your views or you will live a life unfulfilled.  Also, "it's just a game". ;)	
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{| class="blockquote"
While it is true that we will never be satisfied with things of this world, adopting an attitude of permanent boredom tends toward enuii.  Feud, Nietzsche, Sartre, Marx, et. al (the fathers of Modernity), were in error.  I would reconsider your views or you will live a life unfulfilled.  Also, "it's just a game". ;)
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The same thing was said about SWTOR, LOTR, STOL, NW, GW2, Terra, etc ...
 
If people pay ( sub on monetized F2P ) and the game is not in the red it will not die despite yours or others PoV.
 
Also, there is a difference between "self improvement" and DEMANDING THINGS BE YOUR WAY ...  common error today. ;)	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
 
I will never be satisfied. I hope you are never satisfied.
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{| class="blockquote"
That's what she said  :P
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Never had that issue so. :D
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