Rules : Concealing The Gift

Originally written under the heading Magic and masquerades on the discussion page for Story : Supper in the West Room
What level Perdo Vim would it be for "Masking the Odor of Magic" to essentially duplicate the effects of Gentle Gift temporarily? Is that even possible? It seems that if it could prevent the detection of "magic power in an item or being" from InVi, then it would be an even simpler matter to hide the Gift from mundane senses. --Eirlys 10:50, 22 March 2006 (PST)
If it was simple, then Gentle Gift wouldn't be a Major Virtue:-) I believe that such a thing is beyond Hermetic Magic at the moment --JBforMarcus 05:31, 23 March 2006 (PST)
Ah, but there's plenty of Flaws and Virtues that spells can duplicate, some of them major. Shapeshifter doesn't grant anything that you can't do with a MuCo(An). Entrancement doesn't do anything that a ReMe can't do. Effects of Giant Blood, Large, Small Frame, and Dwarf can all be duplicated with a MuCo. Animal Ken = InAn, Enchanting Music = Re/Mu Me, Magic Sensitivity = InVi... And then just about all the flaws. Personality flaws can all be inflicted with a Mu or Re Me; Blind/Crippled/Deaf/Dwarf/No Hands/Mute/Lame/Missing Ear can all be inflicted with PeCo. So being the effect of a major virtue doesn't necessarily mean it'd be impossible with magic. Perdo can destroy an aspect of something, rather than the entire thing. It'd make sense to me if Hermetic magi couldn't do it on the whole because they didn't understand the nature of the Gift enough to grant themselves Gentle Gift without destroying the Gift itself (hey, maybe that's what happened with Bonisagus and Mercere...) but that doesn't make it impossible :-) But that doesn't mean faeries can't do it... or that Diedne can't. --Eirlys 10:11, 23 March 2006 (PST)
: Faeries don't have the gift and Diedne magic is part of Hermetic Theory. Diedne's major contribution to Bonisagus' unified theory of magic was the advent of spontanious magic. Diedne used and would still use - assuming any of them were still around, as if :P - Hermetic Theory and thus the limits on Magic remain. the gift is part of someone's essential nature and so cannot be changed or altered by Hermetic Magic. Pretty much as Jeff says, a successful attempt to do this would be a major Hermetic Breakthrough and lead to the mage who discovered how to do it becoming extremely famous, to rival the founders. --Perikles 06:27, 24 March 2006 (PST)
But they can't do it as "an even simpler matter." :-) Furthermore, I would suggest that if the Order could do it, then it would be being done with great regularity since it does nothing but cause trouble. I'd say it would require a Major Hermetic Breakthrough. It's up to the GM of course, but if it was me, such a thing would be the central focus of an entire saga, since it would completely alter the way that the Order functioned. (All IMnsHO, of course.) --JBforMarcus
: Actually if supressing The Gifts effects on mundanes had the inconvenient side-effect of supressing The Gift at the same time it would not be done with any greate regularity, and it would get around The Gifts essential nature. --Samuel<Talk> 15:54, 24 March 2006 (PST)
:: True, but then rather than trying to alter the essential nature of the gift, you would be attempting to alter the essential nature of the maga/magus for whom the gift is an intrinsic part.--James\Talk 05:55, 25 March 2006 (PST)
True. In story terms, I can totally see this being something that may have been developed by remnants of House Diedne in order to help keep low profiles and stay under the radar of the OoH. --Eirlys 12:12, 23 March 2006 (PST)
: What Diedne? They're all dead :P--Perikles 06:27, 24 March 2006 (PST)
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Though the above results in the matter being resolved agreeably, to my mind, I would also like to point out that The Gift is one of the fundamental game mechanics of Ars Magica, and is thus inviolable regardless of argument; altering it would affect the game in a dramatic and all-encompassing way. --James\Talk 09:39, 24 March 2006 (PST)
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