Report 1506

Report #1506
Skillset: Pureblade Skill: Bleeding
 Org: Serenguard Status: Completed Jul 2016
Furies' Decision:
Solution 1.
Problem: This report was originally aimed at removing Pre-Clot, but through
discussion with envoys I have changed it to focus on PureBlades bleeding
specifically. Right now 1vs1 the bleeding caused by Pureblade is not enough to
pressure the large mana pools we have post-overhaul. Currently I can sit with a
10 action strategem at critical wounds using critical modifiers and between
chervil and clot keep my bleeding + damage from becoming overwhelming and my
mana from being pressured as no bleed amount costs more to clot than I can sip
for.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Have the bleeding scale up more as wound levels
 increase. Numbers can be adjusted through testing
 over time
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Create a new combatstyle "anticoagulant" that doubles
 the cost of clotting for 3 seconds at the cost of
 wounding. - Numbers can be adjusted based on testing.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: Create a new combatstyle "anticoagulant" that limits
 the amount of clot commands you can send to 5, after
 a hit from Pureblade, at the cost of damage. Effect
 wears off after 5 seconds - Numbers can be adjusted
 through testing. - Chervil can still be used, I chose
 lowering damage since bleeding appears to be %-based
 on damage done.
Player Comments:
---[Demartel on 7/8 @ 01:03 writes]:
I fully expect this report to be controversial given the fact that some classes
currently have what are considered excessive bleed mechanics, but hope that
something can be worked out that benefits all parties.
---[Lerad on 7/8 @ 01:43 writes]:
Opposed - pre-clotting is entirely integral to the function of bleed both pre-
overhaul and now. Clotting has its own cost, an extremely inefficient mana-to-
bleed ratio. 60 mana to clot 20 bleed, or thereabouts. Actually choosing to clot
is already biting a bullet, to make the active and cognizant choice to take
triple the mana damage in stead of health, because the alternative is even more
painful. Failing to pre-clot is a punishment where the target's vitals are hit
twice. To force clotting to only be able to be done after the first bleed tic
will basically be a mechanical double-dipping, and it greatly boosts not just
"excessive bleeding", but all bleeding, period. (Besides which, existing bleed
mechanics are mostly already near a balanced state, and need no such boost to
unbalance them where they were previously broken.) Such a wide-ranging change is
unwarranted and unneeded.
---[Synkarin on 7/8 @ 02:03 writes]:
The problem with this report is that 'pre-clot' isn't really pre-clotting, as
soon as you're hit, you are bleeding and have the bleeding affliction with a
level of bleed attached to it. Given that this can be seen on GMCP now it's odd
to try and delay the bleeding. There's also the question of how this changes
anything other than delaying the bleed affliction? Can't they just clot away the
bleeding away either way?
---[Lerad on 7/8 @ 03:04 writes]:
I took "pre-clotting" as described to mean clotting before the first bleeding
tic. Removing this function is supposed to allow PBs do use abilities that
require the target to have bleeding, or that becomes stronger if the target has
bleeding at a certain level etc. The concern is that people clot immediately
upon being hit, and therefore the PB cannot use these abilities (by the time
they regain bal, the bleed is gone). Disabling the ability to clot before the
first bleeding tic, though, is not really a reasonable solution to that problem.
---[Raeri on 7/8 @ 09:59 writes]:
Opposed. Perhaps consider adding an effect to one of the pureblade styles to
assist with it? Like a brief blocking or limiter to the rate of clotting you can
spam after bring hit?
---[Wobou on 7/9 @ 04:46 writes]:
I'm opposed to solution 1 but could possibly work with solution 2 perhaps with
some number tweaks. Double mana cost for 3 seconds seems overly rough. Something
like double mana cost for a second or 50% increased cost for 3 seconds seems
strong but not outright broken.
---[Demartel on 7/9 @ 15:03 writes]:
Solution 2 at 1 second would be useless. You can just delay clotting 1 second
with no serious issue. That is why I chose 3 seconds. It gives you time to clot
regularily before a warrior gets balance back with a possibilty of being
punished if you wait. The Bleeding tic does not happen till 5 seconds after the
hit, so there is no worry about "double dipping" unless you just do not clot.
Double mana cost is also not that harsh given the mana pools post-overhaul. At
the current levels I can completely clot a single PB strikes bleeding for less
than half a sips worth of mana.
---[Demartel on 7/9 @ 15:05 writes]:
I will say I prefer option 3 though. At 5 seconds it means you cannot keep their
clotting at 5 clots indefinately, because the effect is not intended to refresh
itself. If it is on you then it won't reapply. Which means at most you could use
it every second balance, giving a breather of catching up clotting and promoting
an actual pressure to the large mana pools we now have.
---[Shedrin on 7/9 @ 15:23 writes]:
My concern here is that the solutions presented is how they might stack with
other bleeding classes. Not totally opposed, but I think it should be
considered. Solution 2 seems the most workable.
---[Demartel on 7/9 @ 15:50 writes]:
After testing all the special modifiers at all wound levels using the Bleeder
style for increased bleeding I found that I can completely clot and sip the mana
loss back in 1 sip, Using Chervil lowers this cost even more obviously. I am
wondering if people would be less opposed to just increasing the bleeding
amounts on PB's special modifiers to something that scales up sharply at
critical levels.
---[Shedrin on 7/10 @ 01:03 writes]:
I like the idea of scaling the bleeding, or introducing the ideas in the current
solutions as modifiers over combatstyles.
---[Wobou on 7/14 @ 01:57 writes]:
Now that the solutions have been reworked I support solution 1 (wound scaling)
and possibly #2 (increasing the mana cost for a period of time after strike). I
can't quite articulate why but I don't favor solution 3. Something about
limiting the number of clots seems clunky to me and it would definitely be the
harshest stacking with other bleeding classes since it is a hard limit of n
number of clots regardless of mana pool. I think the numbers you currently have
for solution 2 are a bit too high, I think we should start with a 50% increase
cost for 3 seconds and see where that takes us but what I like about both #1 and
#2 is that they are very adjustable which I think helps with the balancing
process.
---[Ryboi on 7/14 @ 16:24 writes]:
With the new solutio ns full support for solution 1 and 2. Although I support
solution 3 I have to echo Wobou on it
---[Lerad on 7/16 @ 01:13 writes]:
Solutions wise, 1 is the least wide-ranging and has the least potential to upset
the status quo in relation with other abilities (nightshadeblues+solution2 might
not be a good idea, for example) and I will support #1.
---[Cyndarin on 7/17 @ 14:50 writes]:
I don't like 2 or 3. I'd be okay with one if there were actual numbers, rather
than just "more bleeding, we'll see how it works." So as a result, I'm opposed
to this report due to a lack of specifics and quantifiable solutions.