123795-i-just-bought-it-and-it-already-disappointed-me-badly

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I had 3 days left on the trial. I was playing at the moment when someone rings the door. It's the postman with my Wildstar DVD game (I like to have the box).
 
I open it, take the serial code and immediately enter it on the website. My doorbell rings again, it's pizza. I go pick it up and ALT+TAB to watch something until I eat.
 
By the time I eat I'm logged out, so I try to login. Can't. Please add a subscription or game time card it says....
 
I thought this can't be right, the account says 'Playable until: 20 April'. (30 days + 2 remaining from trial).
 
I try again. Still nothing.
 
Now what?
 
The reward for me buying the game was actually... interrupting the game play right in the middle of the day? Why?
 
I don't have a credit or debit card, why would I need to add a subscription when I already have 30 days of playtime? Or even better, why would I need to add EXTRA game time with a game time card, when I already have the 30 day of playtime?
 
So now what?	
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Take a look at this thread, it will tell you everything you need to know about accessing your free 30 days. 
 
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/121252-how-to-access-your-30-free-days/
 
You need to put in a subscription in order to be able to play and get your free 30 days. They won't charge you until your time is up, and if they do, just contact customer service and they will help you.	
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Well that's quite... unfortunate. I don't have a credit card. Doesn't make the least bit of sense though. Why would I need to put on my knickers, go find a retailer who sells game time cards, add an extra 30 days of playtime from the game-time card just to be able to play, when I already have 30 days on my account.
 
I wish they would print this in bold on the box so users that plan on using game-time cards also buy a game-time card together with the game.	
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Well that's quite... unfortunate. I don't have a credit card. Doesn't make the least bit of sense though. Why would I need to put on my knickers, go find a retailer who sells game time cards, add an extra 30 days of playtime from the game-time card just to be able to play, when I already have 30 days on my account.
 
I wish they would print this in bold on the box so users that plan on using game-time cards also buy a game-time card together with the game.
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I understand, but there are unbanked people out there who won't be able to activate their account...
 
I'm not bashing the 'solution' they found to protect accounts. They can do whatever they want, but at least put the information somewhere visible, as opposed to having me dig through the forums to find such an important, overlooked thing.
 
Say you buy this as a gift for someone who is... 14 and also has no cards, nor money to buy a game-time card (or willing to buy one, since he/she doesn't even know if they will like the game in the first place). Then what?
 
I mean this is pure common sense not some potentially-but-most-likely-never-to-happen scenarios.	
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I understand, but there are unbanked people out there who won't be able to activate their account...
 
I'm not bashing the 'solution' they found to protect accounts. They can do whatever they want, but at least put the information somewhere visible, as opposed to having me dig through the forums to find such an important, overlooked thing.
 
Say you buy this as a gift for someone who is... 14 and also has no cards, nor money to buy a game-time card (or willing to buy one, since he/she doesn't even know if they will like the game in the first place). Then what?
 
I mean this is pure common sense not some potentially-but-most-likely-never-to-happen scenarios.
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What bots and gold sellers nonsense.
The guy has already paid for his 30 free days with the box,the account is activated
and time is being subtracted from his available days total,as if he is playing.
This is wrong in every possible way it can be wrong.	
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not really.
It's more common sense for the companies to perform a fraud/monetary check by doing this approach and ensure they actually get their money, and are not just handing out accounts.
As mentioned by Cirinde, this is the standard behaviour, not only in games but many other payment providers.
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What bots and gold sellers nonsence.
The guy has already paid for his 30 free days with the box,the account is activated
and time is being subtracted from his available days total,as if he is playing.
This is wrong in every possible way it can be wrong.
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This has nothing to do with boths and goldsellers.
It does keep them at bay in some degree, but the main reason is simply validating the liquidity of the person who owns the account.
You can read more about it in the User Agreement, which you accepted by registered, section 4
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It's just like Netflix. The hope is that by having you lock-in with credit card digits, you'll either be too lazy to remove them and cancel your sub, or you'll forget. Look at how buried the sub cancel option is for this game.
 
However... tons of companies do this, it's not unique to NCSoft (edited, I assume they manage this rather than Carbine). I had to do it with WoW like ten years ago. Standard practice, IMO. Also predominantly greed-motivated, IMO, but hey, that's the world we live in!	
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As a customer,I judge such methods to be wrong and I express my opinion.
The game time is payed for and they are not allowing the player to play,because of a future
purchase that he may or may not go through with,as is his right to do so.
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Surely, there are other ways that a potential player can be verified in the event that they are found to be using stolen money or the like.
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But of course the game doesn't need to check for "stolen money" or anything else of the sort. It's this:
 
that is the real underlying reason for it. They want you to continue your sub, and they don't mind if you do it by accident rather than by intent.
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But of course the game doesn't need to check for "stolen money" or anything else of the sort. It's this:
 
that is the real underlying reason for it. They want you to continue your sub, and they don't mind if you do it by accident rather than by intent.
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I've never understood the 'verification' reason either. What exactly is being verified?
 
If you've purchased the product there is no consumer-friendly reason I can think of for the distributor or producer to require credit card or paypal numbers. You could be the poorest, most unstable consumer in the world...  you have bought the game, you're owed 30 days of play time, anything else sounds like bait to me.
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The problem with that theory is that they could easily be losing more potential customers than by making sure your card is on file. 
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What is being "verified" is your liquidity.
Whether you are able to pay for the subscription or not, and if your payment source is valid, and not for example a credit card used in Fraud or stolen or something.
These things go over payment providers such as PayOne, BillCrux and many others. All of these are verified merchants and have the means to detect these things with the card.
That's what is actually being verified when you use a credit card.
 
And yes, the other point is true as well. Companies want you to remain subbed and forget about it.
It's ugly, but that's how our world works these days.
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What is being "verified" is your liquidity.
Whether you are able to pay for the subscription or not, and if your payment source is valid, and not for example a credit card used in Fraud or stolen or something.
These things go over payment providers such as PayOne, BillCrux and many others. All of these are verified merchants and have the means to detect these things with the card.
That's what is actually being verified when you use a credit card.
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I don't understand this statement at all. :o
 
Here's the Zendesk justification from Cirinde's link:
 
 
 
 
I don't think you need a marketing or psychology class to see this is total bullshit, haha. Like anyone would be so flustered to have to log out for one minute to renew their sub.
 
This assumes that we're either too inept to renew before expiry, can't handle a 2 minute alt+tab,  or are just dumb in general. "we want to take care of the complicated stuff right away" makes me laugh so hard.
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Is it really?  I'd have thought the first thought would be that if you used a bogus identity with a bogus card, you'd just start laundering through the CREDD system and a goldseller.  But you're in the industry, so you'd probably know better than I would.
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I'd like to think it's bullshit; but sometimes I wonder....
 
However, I generally agree, I'm just not entirely convinced on what the real reason is.  I'll put it this way, if it was a marketing ploy, it wouldn't surprise me because it's a marketing ploy, it'd surprise me because it's such an ineffective one.  People who forget to cancel their sub are probably outweighed by the people in the world that want to play but don't have a credit card.  As I said, there are a lot of people, particularly in this hemisphere, that don't have credit cards, would find getting one to be difficult, and would be distrustful of them even if they could.  Unsurprisingly so.
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Oh I may have misrepresented my perception on this. I have no problem with verifying payment models once the consumer has opted to actually sub. I do have a big problem with getting numbers before the consumer has decided to commit to the game.
 
If the game comes with a free month, I don't think the justification you've outlined here works for that first mandatory information sharing. And the justification that Zendesk gives (which is not even in the realm of any of the justifications of players offered here) also doesn't make sense as justification for this practice.
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			And legal, don't forget legal ;)	
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The thing is, they get their money from the original sale. Which in most cases is correct.
But the box sale is not enough from my understanding. Running online games costs a lot of money.
Hence why the subscription is there.
 
And this is where it becomes important for Carbine to make sure that the source of the money is valid.
If indeed a fraud happens with a stolen credit card or identity theft, Carbine is the liable party in this case and needs to return the money + additional costs made by the payment providers.
To give an example from PayOne: Every flagged fraud account and charge back costs the client an additional 3$ on top of the money lost.
This is quite a lot, and reason why companies who use these payment providers want to double check that the source of money is secure and solid.
 
And I cannot give out details, but I can tell you that Fraud with identity and credit cards happens quite a lot.
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I think you'd be right if this wasn't a common practice with other online markets, but it's pretty well-known so I don't think that many potential sub sales are lost. And they still make make box money, plus the people who don't have a credit card are also unlikely to be stable longterm subscribers anyway.
 
In the end this practice is probably done for a few reasons. But I would say getting more money from customers is the #1 reason because strategies like this aren't handled by the ethics team at NCSoft, they're handled by the same people who target 25-40 year old women in retail stores, who try to get into your mind and your lifestyle and exploit that for maximum sales.
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That's where you have to look at the User Agreement.
It's stated that in order to use the game, you need to have an account. And in order to use the Services, you need to have a subscription.
It's somewhere in there, can quote the parts if you want.
It's just that nobody actually reads this ;)
When you have time, just read through the User Agreement, and then realize how much Carbine can actually do, but isn't doing...
But yeah, nobody really reads these things.
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			I think somebody just got slapped in the face by reality.  I don't know a single game that has/had a subscription that did not do this.	
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And yet, they continue to do it. ;) 
 
I don't really have to look at the specifics of NCSoft's situation though. This is just too common practice and too obvious to overlook, and their own explanation is too weak to stand up to scrutiny.	
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That's where you have to look at the User Agreement.
It's stated that in order to use the game, you need to have an account. And in order to use the Services, you need to have a subscription.
It's somewhere in there, can quote the parts if you want.
It's just that nobody actually reads this ;)
When you have time, just read through the User Agreement, and then realize how much Carbine can actually do, but isn't doing...
But yeah, nobody really reads these things.
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And yet, they continue to do it. ;)
 
I don't really have to look at the specifics of NCSoft's situation though. This is just too common practice and too obvious to overlook, and their own explanation is too weak to stand up to scrutiny.
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Naw, I won't read it because it doesn't matter to me if they've legalized it through their agreement. I would still click accept, and I'd still criticize them for doing it. Same old exploitation. :P
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I don't have access to a physical box right now, but I'm curious if there's any warning that you need a credit card to play the game. I feel like there is... I remember something like "Requires game card or credit card to play" being written on my WoW box years ago.
 
That said, I've been buying digitally for the last few years. Right now I'm looking at the digital purchase on the WS site, and can't find a single word about needing credit/paypal. I may have missed it though, so if anyone finds a warning, please let me know.
 
https://shop.wildstar-online.com/product/standard
 
Not that I think NCSoft is looking for suggestions on this, but it would be ideal if credit card/paypal was listed under 'system requirements'. I know that this isn't exactly a demand of the PC, but, I think it makes the most sense as it's the only place where requirements are listed and is a place nearly all people will look before buying a game. 	
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Pretty sure it does Esper, it's required by law to mention that "online fees may apply"
 
 
PRODUCT REQUIREMENTS:
Broadband internet connection
NCSOFT® account activation
NCSoft account activation indicates subscription fee, as determined by the User Agreement for WildStar and Carbine.
It's vague, but legally sound....	
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Pretty sure it does Esper, it's required by law to mention that "online fees may apply"
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			see my edit ;)	
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see my edit ;)
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I remember someone said once that it IS on the physical box, just reaaaaally tiny and not noticeable...only people who read the entire box (like my husband) would normally notice. That said, I don't remember seeing any sort of warning on the online store, but then, every subbed game Ive played does this same thing so it wouldnt have surprised me anyway.
 
It's weird to me that so many people dont at least have a debit/check card. Everyone I knew growing up got one when we set up our bank account and got a job, even just in fast food. Credit card I could understand, we didnt bother to get one til a few years ago, but not even a debit card? Maybe that's just me growing up in a weird place like MO, where no one really carries cash anymore.	
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Hmm, you make a good point, but are we able to read/presented with the user agreement before we buy the game? If not, then I would say it's problematic.
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I remember someone said once that it IS on the physical box, just reaaaaally tiny and not noticeable...only people who read the entire box (like my husband) would normally notice. That said, I don't remember seeing any sort of warning on the online store, but then, every subbed game Ive played does this same thing so it wouldnt have surprised me anyway.
 
It's weird to me that so many people dont at least have a debit/check card. Everyone I knew growing up got one when we set up our bank account and got a job, even just in fast food. Credit card I could understand, we didnt bother to get one til a few years ago, but not even a debit card? Maybe that's just me growing up in a weird place like MO, where no one really carries cash anymore.
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I remember someone said once that it IS on the physical box, just reaaaaally tiny and not noticeable...only people who read the entire box (like my husband) would normally notice. That said, I don't remember seeing any sort of warning on the online store, but then, every subbed game Ive played does this same thing so it wouldnt have surprised me anyway.
 
It's weird to me that so many people dont at least have a debit/check card. Everyone I knew growing up got one when we set up our bank account and got a job, even just in fast food. Credit card I could understand, we didnt bother to get one til a few years ago, but not even a debit card? Maybe that's just me growing up in a weird place like MO, where no one really carries cash anymore.
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Yeah, I understand that...but in a world where more and more things are available online or just flat out easier to DO online, not having any sort of card strikes me as odd lol
 
Edit: I spose there is Paypal, but I don't personally use it anymore unless it's some weird system that only takes paypal	
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Yeah, I understand that...but in a world where more and more things are available online or just flat out easier to DO online, not having any sort of card strikes me as odd lol
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Well if you mean debit to be used for Paypal, I'm sure many people do, but for example I won't ever use Paypal again. I don't think they're bad or anything, I just don't like passing my money through a third party digital service. My credit card was established at my local branch here in Ottawa, through a big bank, so I'm comfortable with that.
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Eum...your credit card IS a third party....MasterCard, Visa or whatever it is.
Just because it is established through your bank doesn't change anything about that.
PayPal is pretty accessible though. Not sure how secure they exactly are...
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That's why I said a third party digital service. :P  There is no Paypal branch in my city that I can stop by if I have a problem, all accountability will be handled through email and phones (and I'm in Canada so eff that). Whereas if my credit card goes wrong, I can speak directly to my bank rep inside the branch.
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hmmm....I can understand your reasoning....
but I don't consider this to be a valid argument.
If someone get's a hold of your credit card, by the time you get to your bank it can already be plundered.
Paypal too for that account, so no difference there.
 
PayPal has an online support feature though. But I fear this is going to far offtopic for that discussion.
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A coworker did steal my debit card once. I was able to go to my bank, cancel the card, dispute the charges and get it all back along with a new card...so I can see caution about plastic, but that hasn't dissuaded me. I just no longer leave my purse anywhere that's not within immediate reach, even if it's a supposedly secure locker.
 
But I've had friends lose theirs before, too, and be able to fix it equally as competently as mine was over the phone. I much prefer doing things over the phone/e-mail than have to go somewhere, wait in a line for who knows how long, in person XD	
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Yeah, I understand that...but in a world where more and more things are available online or just flat out easier to DO online, not having any sort of card strikes me as odd lol
 
Edit: I spose there is Paypal, but I don't personally use it anymore unless it's some weird system that only takes paypal
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Well then you don't understand, or have never been through, sitting on the phone for several hours trying to get decent response from a CSR. :P  It's so incredibly frustrating and has nothing to do with how fast I'll get my money back. When I walk into my bank I'll be treated as a person and not a number in a queue.
 
So it's strictly a customer service issue. If I can help it, I will never again put myself at the mercy of someone who doesn't have to look me in the eyes!
 
So I'd say it's pretty valid (unless you consider customer service concerns/queue times/etc to be invalid).
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			Also most of the credit cards in Latin America have insane interest rates.	
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Yeah, it really depends on who you are and where you live.  I haven't really used cash of my own volition in years (though my band gets paid cash, so I've had it more often lately).  So I'm used to debit and credit cards; I've been around them all my life and sort of accept them as a fact of life.  Some places, Asia for example, they're FAR more prevalent than even they are here in the states.  However, there are other places where the monetary system has been less stable, that banks are still seen as gambles, and where the idea of having a direct loan on hand from an institution that bills you monthly is almost outright heresy.  It's a cultural thing.
 
NCSoft is in South Korea, though.  They probably have a research department that tells them differently, but personally might also not be really sure who wouldn't have a credit card.  They're very prevalent there.
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we now know that if you send a support ticket with all the information explaining your situation about not having a credit card, never having one and dont have access to one in the near future they can bypass your subscription set up when you buy a retail box (they understand, people at carbine custome service really deserve a ton of kudos cause in my case i always got the necessary help). so now send a ticket and when they answer you ill be waiting on nexus
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This is really, really cool. Big thumbs up.
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It's standard practice in every single sub based MMO since the creation of sub based MMOs. 
 
In this day and age, anyone can get a credit card but for whatever strange reason you don't (future terminators?) there are plenty of other options out there for you	
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It's on the website, at the bottom.
So yes, you can read it before buying the client.
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Yeah, I understand that...but in a world where more and more things are available online or just flat out easier to DO online, not having any sort of card strikes me as odd lol
 
Edit: I spose there is Paypal, but I don't personally use it anymore unless it's some weird system that only takes paypal
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			I'm from Norway and i have not seen real money since i was 15 (I'm over 40 now)...a bit exaggerated ofc, but credit card is the norm. I'm sure Support on wildstar can help if you want to pay like our grand parents did;) I also see that it might be a problem getting a credit card etc if your under aged....my 11 year old son does not have one...but he does not have any real money either;) 	
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Here you go, most of Europe is under 50% French is even under 15%	
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Here you go, most of Europe is under 50% French is even under 15%
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I do not use a debit or credit card because I have been times and times again messed around with by banks who, like it or not, seem to be controlling everyone's life. I refuse to do that. I'm sick of their fees, waiting times, commissions, charges, extra charges, account hold-ups, account reviews, etc.
 
I asked my employer to pay me in cash and he agreed. Every time I get my salary, I take it all cash to a Bitcoin ATM and deposit 50% of it as Bitcoin. I can nowadays get away with buying as much as 70% of everything I need online, with Bitcoin - but there are things, such as this, which won't work.
 
Whether you've heard of Bitcoin or not, agree with it or not, I'm so much more free and happy since I've completely severed all banking connections. You have no idea how good it can be for you: financially and mentally.
 
So no, I'm not into anything shady, I just had it with banks.
 
For anyone interested: The fact tht you need a credit/debit card or a game-time card IS actually printed on the box and I was just being careless. I went and bought a game-time card and all is good now.	
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wow where are you from? My employer would never ever had payed me in cash. 
 
Personally being 40+ years I DONT miss old times when all things was cash only...
 
But personally I have never had any bad experiences with bank's either....especially not account hold-ups or reviews or something.
 
But its good that it could work "the old way" too:)	
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look at my contry..it says no data;) I can assure you that norwegians have more credit cards than americans do;) Cash is the opposite of KING in norway...you come with cash...you can actually be turned down...many stores dont take cash anymore. So that screenshot is not realy valid:) For norway ofc;)
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Any bank checking card will do.
I don't have a credit card myself, I just used my checking account card.	
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Any bank checking card will do.
I don't have a credit card myself, I just used my checking account card.
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Just to be sure you really mean credit card right like Visa or mastercard for example and not a card from the bank?
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It's just like Netflix. The hope is that by having you lock-in with credit card digits, you'll either be too lazy to remove them and cancel your sub, or you'll forget. Look at how buried the sub cancel option is for this game.
 
 
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			How many other subscription based games let you play without setting up a subscription? I don't understand why these post pop up every day. People need to do some research before buying.	
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For anyone interested: The fact that you need a credit/debit card or a game-time card IS actually printed on the box and I was just being careless. I went and bought a game-time card and all is good now.
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