113285-so-amp-and-ability-points-from-pvp

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			worst design choice in wildstar history or worst choice in mmo history?seriously putting pve rewards in pvp is like taboo to begin with...Now the bg's are completely filled with people that not only don't care at all and straight up expect to just ride losses to their eventual rewardthey're even standing around talking about how dumb it is they have to stand around not participating in bg's to get a couple amps	
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.....
 
And rewards from path, and rewards from rep and drops....
And PvP players not need AMP points?
 
 	
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They are not PVE rewards.  They are as much PVP rewards as they are PVE rewards; they are useful for everybody.
 
The next drop is putting in many more ways to earn them through PVE.	
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Relax.We only need like one or two days to farm this stuff.
In a week you won't see any more scrub PvE'ers like myself in the BG's.
 
"Worst design choice in mmo history" tells more about your age and/or narrowmindedness than about this patch.	
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They are not PVE rewards.  They are as much PVP rewards as they are PVE rewards; they are useful for everybody.
 
The next drop is putting in many more ways to earn them through PVE.
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It's not a matter of usable in pvp too, it's a matter of important and hard to come by for pve.
There's a reason no one ever puts pve related rewards into pvp systems, you don't want people doing things they dislike so much that they actively avoid for things they feel are necessities 
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It's not a matter of usable in pvp too, it's a matter of important and hard to come by for pve.
There's a reason no one ever puts pve related rewards into pvp systems, you don't want people doing things they dislike so much that they actively avoid for things they feel are necessities 
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			I don't see what's the matter with mixing PvE reward and PvP reward. The game is trying to make you see another facet, with an incentive to strive for. Many people will get the 'PvP anxiety' and never try it. Reward people for trying it and you create a healthy PvP community. You don't want to run into PvErs that farm stuff because you feel it make you lose? Do ranked PvP (because that's what it's for)	
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And... you're complaining about this now?
When 1800 rating weapons have been coveted as raiding equipment since launch?  :rolleyes:
 
Pretty sure 1800 carries are more harmful to the PvP community than encouraging PvE players to farm a bit of prestige (some of whom might even stay and become enthusiasts because they enjoyed it more than they thought).
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Is not fault of adding rewards....	
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the game repeating the same mistakes over and over doesn't make it better.
 
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I've seen a lot of useless posts on these forums but this one must take some kind of price. 
AMPs are not PvE, they are for both PvE and PvP.	Practise Battlegrounds (which im assuming all the "PvE players" are joining) is ment to be a stepping stone for players without PvP gear before Rated BGs. You cant complain "OMG PEOPLE ARE PLAYING PRACTISE BGS WITHOUT PVP GEAR!".	If people are just standing in BGs, report them. They should join BGs to participate in PvP and see the AMPs as a reward for doing so. Not a place to afk, *cupcake* and whine untill enough prestiege is earned to get said AMPs.
Also its not the patches fault that people are idiots that only afk in the BG to get prestiege. However setting a rating requirement on the AMPs and Ability Points would prevent this.
 
Edit: An even better solution as mentioned above is to queue for Rated Battlegrounds if you want to avoid non-pvpers.	
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Lunaria, it seem like you are on a bad losing streak. If half your people are afk, that's not rewards fault. And it should happen in the other team too according to your though process.
 
Like I said: Either go do arena, or ranked BG. You are not suppose to reach dedication in a Practice BG. Those BG are meant... well for practice and to farm prestige to buy stuff to help you in ranked PvP.	
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I don't see what's the matter with mixing PvE reward and PvP reward. The game is trying to make you see another facet, with an incentive to strive for. Many people will get the 'PvP anxiety' and never try it. Reward people for trying it and you create a healthy PvP community. You don't want to run into PvErs that farm stuff because you feel it make you lose? Do ranked PvP (because that's what it's for)
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Lunaria... Like I said in my precedent post: Practice BG are meant to practice and to farm Prestige for PvP gear. If you go in a Practice, in full PvE, with a team that are full of PvE gear, and you actually expect to Win easily... well you are mistaken my friend.
 
edit: BUT!!!! that doesn't mean yo uare gonna lose for it... because the other team is just like yours...	
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Lunaria, it seem like you are on a bad losing streak. If half your people are afk, that's not rewards fault. And it should happen in the other team too according to your though process.
 
Like I said: Either go do arena, or ranked BG. You are not suppose to reach dedication in a Practice BG. Those BG are meant... well for practice and to farm prestige to buy stuff to help you in ranked PvP.
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Mr Lunaria... obviously you either don't rank or are in a low rating. ELO is important for people that PvP, because it's the reflection of their skills. No one will want to run around with their junk in their hands if they have a BG ranked team that try to progress in rating. No one. I have played quite a bit of PvP here and in the Beta, and a part from the exceptional (and now very rare) case of a boter, people are actually trying. Even people in PvE gear that doesn't know the map.
 
Use the 1min before a BG to coordinate with your team, explain some stuff to the instance group. (I know some people that will use a macro to quickly send a 2-3 line explanation of what's expected.) And you will see a great improvement in your win/lose ratio.
 
ps: and why would it happen in ranked BG too? There is NO points in doing ranked if you don't try to win	
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It is happening on both sides, and it's not fun either way
In ranked as well, no one cares about ranked when they all know it means nothing and is getting reset shortly
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It doesn't really make sense for anybody to just stand around and do nothing, even if they're scrubs at PvP (like me) you can still contribute to an objective and if you win, more prestige = less time doing something you don't want to do.
 
AMP and Tier points are definitely not just PvE, they have a real benefit in PvP as well. We've tried to split out the AMP/Tier points across content that *everybody* has access to and touches a wide group of players. From Solo Non-Progression PvE Players, to PvPers and hardcore Progression PvEers.	
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I've had nothing but good BGs all day. like 20-25 BGs total, all of them were good with almost no afkers or botters. Perhaps 1-2 that i didnt even notice.
 
Drop 3 is maybe comming in less than a month, if everything goes according to plans and so on. One month is more than enough to farm your 1500 rating gear. We've been doing RBGs during evenings for the last few weeks, sadly too few people are queing during the days because of the reason you mentioned.
 
Only reason you have to not queue RBG at the moment is "I am aiming to get season 1 top player awards and rating is being reset so ill have to do it all again anyway.", but they even announced that they are going to give mid-season rewards to the top players so that is now mute.
 
You start at 1200 rating, if you get to 1250 you get 2 new items. If you get to 1300 you get another 2. And so on. Each 50 rating will reward you with something new untill 1500 rating. In other words, Unless you have 1500 rating or higher, you still have every reason in the world to queue RBG.
 
Todays patch, combined with your issue (that no1 else seems to be having) gives us another reason. RBGs usually contain players who are interested in winning to gain rating, so no afkers. And it rewards you with prestiege for the AMP points.
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You're misunderstanding. Because these are easy amp / ability points (that benefit all players) available for prestige only, many pve players are choosing to "afk" rather than participate.
 
I get that practice "is for farming" but I don't believe that justifies afking. It would be the equivalent of queuing for a dungeon and refusing to participate, but fortunately there are no participation points in pve...only pvp.. sigh	
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My last post was meant to quote Olivar. 
 
CRB_Analath, I agree but unfortunately people will often choose to afk or not participate if participation points are provided anyway. Some just want the reward, and do not care about ruining a match for those who'd like to try. I.e. if people can continue to receive awards for just showing up, this will be exploited. 
 
(I'd make it a prestige cost and 1250 rank to discourage this, but I'm sure I'm the minority)	
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			As a reminder, do report folks that are AFKing. There also systems in game to kick those who are inactive for a period of time.	
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Honestly, what changed? I mean, I leveled my Engineer mainly in PvP, and there were always bots and people afking...
 
I like the idea, because pvp is fun and on top of that - getting upgrades for prestige is a piece of cake compared to reputation from daily quests which takes month.
 
btw. AMPs and APs aren't the issue. The issue is that you can't reliably remove the afkers.	
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Afkers will always happen, but Carbine did a good job so far with pretty consequent ban (7days for first offense is great)
A good way to improve the PvP is to create a healthy community. Some people don't want to try and AFK either because they have no clue what to do or get harass when they try. So they don't care.
 
Like I said earlier, create yourself a macro, that will give everyone a 2-3 line match plan. Pop it around 40sec before start (so everyone is connect). And during the match, call some strategy. I know it's pretty annoying to use the /instance because of all those frickin addon that says potential mask in 11sec and stuff like that. But it's still a great tool. A little: I will D, everyone Top mid now, or protect our flag, or 3inc our base and stuff like that really help ALL the team, and I shit you not, will improve your win/lose ratio.
 
You remember all those QQers in LoL that says they are good but can't escape Bronze or Silver ELO. Well when they start communicating, they do get out of it. It's a team game.	
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It doesn't really make sense for anybody to just stand around and do nothing, even if they're scrubs at PvP (like me) you can still contribute to an objective and if you win, more prestige = less time doing something you don't want to do.
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As a reminder, do report folks that are AFKing. There also systems in game to kick those who are inactive for a period of time.
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As an aside, AMPs and Ability points are not PvE rewards.
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What exactly do you mean here? Because you DO get those items from getting gold in the dungeons / rep vendors... so they very much ARE PvE rewards as well.
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			this ^	
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Pretty sure he meant "PvE-centric rewards". As in: More coveted by PvE gamers.
But as stated many times in this thread before: That's nonsense.
 
The only two issues:
 
- You don't get them just for participating in PvE. You actually have to do stuff.
- You can't police deadbeat players as efficiently in PvP as in PvE.
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players Qing in practice bgs in full pve gear contribute to nothing.
they are a bane to heal
they deal the dmg of a peanut
they die in 3 sec
 
very boring to deal with this...
 
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Yo Vanisha,
 
you should say: players Qing in PRACTICE bgs in full pve gear.
 
I dont know... but when you put it that way it doesn't sound that bad... Maybe because it's intended to be that way? O.o	
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you ALSO get PvE Rep for just showing up and doing PvE / dailies
 
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The difference is you aren't screwing over your team, no matter how badly you suck at dailies.  ;)
 
Edit: Okay, R-12 and especially the Tree event (if you're trying for gold medal) can actually be sabotaged by too many AFKers. Still not as badly as a PvP match though!
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			AFKers get their Pestige drain	
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Yo Vanisha,
 
you should say: players Qing in PRACTICE bgs in full pve gear.
 
I dont know... but when you put it that way it doesn't sound that bad... Maybe because it's intended to be that way? O.o
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Tell me Mr. Vanisha... how the hell are you suppose to start BG in PvP gear. How?
 
ps: dont take it personnal, but I think i'm picking on you because of your portrait
edit: by start BG in PvP gear, I mean do your first BG having PvP gear. Cuz you know, you got to farm it.	
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blue gear costs nothing, with 5k you have 95% of the set.
very hard.	
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Oh okie. Yeah you are right. Hey good job boy, good job.
 
I like where this thread is going: Get PvP gear Scrub. And another thread I post in today was: Don't get PvP gear, get Skill scrub.. haha poor PvP neophyte. Suck to be them	
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worst design choice in wildstar history or worst choice in mmo history?
 
seriously putting pve rewards in pvp is like taboo to begin with...
Now the bg's are completely filled with people that not only don't care at all and straight up expect to just ride losses to their eventual reward
 
they're even standing around talking about how dumb it is they have to stand around not participating in bg's to get a couple amps
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			Hey, I'm thinking about starting a fully PvP Stalker on Pergo, doms side. If you have some tips, plz PM me or whatver ;)	
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As a reminder, do report folks that are AFKing. There also systems in game to kick those who are inactive for a period of time.
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well how does this work for a player on Defense dutty at base  in tikki BG? i would be booted becouse iam standing there moving slightly waiting for masks to get stolen? its a common practice in the BG....or it only applies to grave yard?
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			Anlath, sorry to burst your bubble, but standing there doing nothing is still a viable and safe strat. Don't want to let those pesky Stalker sneak in and grab the flag while you decide to take a walk ;)	
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blue gear costs nothing, with 5k you have 95% of the set.
very hard.
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Anlath, sorry to burst your bubble, but standing there doing nothing is still a viable and safe strat. Don't want to let those pesky Stalker sneak in and grab the flag while you decide to take a walk ;)
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			Well put mayasu	
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			Oh yea I know Nazryn, I still consider that standing there doing nothing. SOrry I expressed myself the wrong way	
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Only real problem I see with this is...
 
You are forcing people that don't want to PvP in this game to PvP to get the points. People that don't want to PvP in this game choose too becuase they
A). Dislike PvP period.
B.) Know PvP in a PvE themepark is crap and always will be.
 
For those of you that are playing this game for the PvP, I have one thing to say. WTF is wrong with you? There are games out there that are leaps and bounds better at PvP and were designed around PvP.	
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Anlath, sorry to burst your bubble, but standing there doing nothing is still a viable and safe strat. Don't want to let those pesky Stalker sneak in and grab the flag while you decide to take a walk ;)
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Oh yea I know Nazryn, I still consider that standing there doing nothing. SOrry I expressed myself the wrong way
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Yeah, got you Naz and Anlath, sorry for the confusion.
 
And Biytor, could you plz elaborate on why PvP in a themepark PvE game is crap. Not sure to understand what's the link between the 2.	
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			You were probably just stuck in a que time frame vs a good premade	
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			Well Feldyn, the entire game was designed around the PvE game. PvP was tacked on at a point after the core PvE mechanics were set. If you can't see where the problem is and all the failures that have come before, from other games trying to be two things at one time, I really can't help you.	
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It's not a matter of usable in pvp too, it's a matter of important and hard to come by for pve.
There's a reason no one ever puts pve related rewards into pvp systems, you don't want people doing things they dislike so much that they actively avoid for things they feel are necessities 
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Only real problem I see with this is...
 
You are forcing people that don't want to PvP in this game to PvP to get the points. People that don't want to PvP in this game choose too becuase they
A). Dislike PvP period.
B.) Know PvP in a PvE themepark is crap and always will be.
 
For those of you that are playing this game for the PvP, I have one thing to say. WTF is wrong with you? There are games out there that are leaps and bounds better at PvP and were designed around PvP.
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Well Feldyn, the entire game was designed around the PvE game. PvP was tacked on at a point after the core PvE mechanics were set. If you can't see where the problem is and all the failures that have come before, from other games trying to be two things at one time, I really can't help you.
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I play both theres other ways for pve'rs to get their points.. unless its limited and to cap you have to pvp.. i can see a bit of an issue with that and vice versa. PVP's not wanting to do dungeons or paths to get their points.
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Yeah but standing dead still, not moving the camera, not doing *anything* is still (I assume) a bit different. Like I said, I play Defense and still do *enough* not to be kicked/reported for being idle. ;)
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No offense but I don't think you're getting the point. People that are idling aren't doing it because its a 'safe' strat.
 
Let me phrase this as a personal opinion because this is exactly how I feel. I think PvP in this game is boring as *cupcake*. Sorry, that's just how it is, but consequently, I have no PvP gear whatsoever. Now my raid performance is tied to grinding out 13k(?) prestige from BGs. If I weren't going to get banned for it, I absolutely would queue into a BG and AFK while doing homework, or hell even playing Hearthstone, because both of those activities are significantly more engaging than getting blown up in a sea of telegraphs. I have no incentive to actually equip PvP gear because that would cost me the very prestige I'm trying to farm.
 
As it is, I'm pretty sure I don't have the will to subject myself to PvP so I will probably just /sigh as I get out-dps'd by people that do, but I'm sure there are many out there that feel the same as me but will actually risk AFKing.
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			To be fair most who play pvp anyway have no clue what they are doing so the more the better, It means it pops quicker i am all for it lol	
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I have no plans to PvP for these. I'm not the kind of person to afk- if I play I want to contribute.
 
However, not being able to use my PvE gear in PvP means I likely won't ever play it. The barrier of entry is too high for what would amount (for me) to be a side game.
 
I used to do BGs in WoW a lot and had a good time doing it. It was a great thing to do to kill time when I didn't have much else to do. But in this game I have to do gear swapping and LAS changing- I'll have to be pretty bored to take that on. Maybe when I've maxed out my tier/ability points and can get two new LAS I'll PvP.
 
More to the point of this post- if they'd stuck these points behind a rating wall, PvPers would have complained. Carbine can't win it seems.	
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worst design choice in wildstar history or worst choice in mmo history?
 
seriously putting PVP rewards in PVE is like taboo to begin with...
Now the daily zones are completely filled with people that not only don't care at all and straight up expect to just ride mobs to their eventual reward
 
they're even standing around talking about how dumb it is they have to do dailies to get a couple amps	
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This thread was good for a chuckle  :D
 
Difference of opinion I guess OP...  I don't view AMP and Ability points as PvE rewards, they're just as important for PvP.  Previously the only way to get them was via Elder Gems, now you can still do that, you can PvP, and you can PvE, seems like it's very spread out now.	
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Previously the only way to get them was via Elder Gems, now you can still do that, you can PvP, and you can PvE, seems like it's very spread out now.
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I have no plans to PvP for these. I'm not the kind of person to afk- if I play I want to contribute.
 
However, not being able to use my PvE gear in PvP means I likely won't ever play it. The barrier of entry is too high for what would amount (for me) to be a side game.
 
I used to do BGs in WoW a lot and had a good time doing it. It was a great thing to do to kill time when I didn't have much else to do. But in this game I have to do gear swapping and LAS changing- I'll have to be pretty bored to take that on. Maybe when I've maxed out my tier/ability points and can get two new LAS I'll PvP.
 
More to the point of this post- if they'd stuck these points behind a rating wall, PvPers would have complained. Carbine can't win it seems.
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GOD CARBONE Y U PUT AMP REWARDS IN PVE NOW I HAVE TO DO PVE TO GET AMP REWARDS AS A PVPER tHATS SO UNFAIR PLS CARBONE
 
Jesus, it would take you a max of 3 days to get enough points for all 3 even if you lost every game.	
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			You can AFK to Prestige (spamming an ability by the masks while you watch TV is essentially afking).  Why would you put an incentive for people, who have no interest in PVP, to do this very thing.  The issue is really that it makes a bad experience for people who want to PVP, either because there is an influx of AFK or of undergeared players who don't care.  Yes, I understand that having them on PVE rep vendors forces PVP players to do PVE, but they are not going to hurt the PVE players experience while the do it.  As has been said already, these amp/ability points should be put at a rating requirement (with no prestige cost), which would encourage people to actually try to win and have them spend prestige on PVP gear so that they can improve themselves.  This would actually spur quality PVP participation.	
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You can AFK to Prestige (spamming an ability by the masks while you watch TV is essentially afking).  Why would you put an incentive for people, who have no interest in PVP, to do this very thing.  The issue is really that it makes a bad experience for people who want to PVP, either because there is an influx of AFK or of undergeared players who don't care.  Yes, I understand that having them on PVE rep vendors forces PVP players to do PVE, but they are not going to hurt the PVE players experience while the do it. 
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They can hurt PvE experience in gold Veterans.
 
Maybe it would be better to use pvp reputations and let players farm daily pvp quests for a month... (Actually, I would like to see it other way around, at least some possibility to grind PvE reputation 24h a day... the pain of having alts is strong with this one.)
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			Actually, since it's 1 drop per gold run, that has to be rolled on, people will be done with the PVP amp/ability tiers in a week. They'll be working on the gold ones for...a while.	
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this got off topic. The OPs point was that the AMP and ability points in pvp allow players to receive the upgrades without participating. (Equivalent to queuing for a dungeon, afking, but being unable to be kicked and forcing the group to continue crippled.) 
 
As for whoever brought up the point that players will spend aaages farming the AMPs with no pvp gear, and should just invest a few prestige into some base pvp gear to speed it up and make it less awful: if only...if only people saw it this way.
 
My vote: either control AFK and get rid of participation points (points for afk), OR add a small requirement that requires participation (like an imbuement: must win 3 practice matches)	
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1-It's hard to monitor AFK, because it's super super super easy to get an anti-afk. What that mean is: it's the player job to report the AFKers cuz we know when they are.
2-Getting a starter BG kit from the AH is not that expansive. Worth looking into it if you intend to farm BG.
3-PvP rock, do more, like more and become better at it ^.^	
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It doesn't really make sense for anybody to just stand around and do nothing, even if they're scrubs at PvP (like me) you can still contribute to an objective and if you win, more prestige = less time doing something you don't want to do.
 
AMP and Tier points are definitely not just PvE, they have a real benefit in PvP as well. We've tried to split out the AMP/Tier points across content that *everybody* has access to and touches a wide group of players. From Solo Non-Progression PvE Players, to PvPers and hardcore Progression PvEers.
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(Equivalent to queuing for a dungeon, afking, but being unable to be kicked and forcing the group to continue crippled.)
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			I keep saying it: It's an attitude problem.	
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			It's definitely the attitude.	
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The genre is plagued by an attitude problem. Naix though, I've had great pvp since patch so I think it'll be back and forth for a few days until the afkers are gone, but otherwise I wouldn't get too gloom and doom if you can help it.
 
Imo, write down cheaters and afkers so you know who to avoid in game. Social motivation haha	
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Almost feels like a troll thread here...
 
Now about those AMPs and Ability points, maybe someone can clue me in, so I got the AMP point level 1 (can't remember the name right now I'm at work), but there's also a "level 2" for sale which requires you to have level 1. What's the deal here? Do I keep it in my bag until I have enough prestige to buy the second? Or using it will still give me the chance to buy level 2 AMP point?
 
Thanks!	
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			I used mine and I am still eligible to buy the second	
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The genre is plagued by an attitude problem. Naix though, I've had great pvp since patch so I think it'll be back and forth for a few days until the afkers are gone, but otherwise I wouldn't get too gloom and doom if you can help it.
 
Imo, write down cheaters and afkers so you know who to avoid in game. Social motivation haha
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It doesn't really make sense for anybody to just stand around and do nothing, even if they're scrubs at PvP (like me) you can still contribute to an objective and if you win, more prestige = less time doing something you don't want to do.
 
AMP and Tier points are definitely not just PvE, they have a real benefit in PvP as well. We've tried to split out the AMP/Tier points across content that *everybody* has access to and touches a wide group of players. From Solo Non-Progression PvE Players, to PvPers and hardcore Progression PvEers.
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For everyone saying you don't "need" to PvP to get the Ability/AMP points... maybe not but it is by far the most accessible way to get them. Once you get your path rewards, PvP is the only way that (1) requires no skill and (2) is not at all time gated (unless you're completely loaded with plat but very few people can afford to buy all their points). PvP is the clear path of least resistance and it has been proven over and over again that if there is a path of least resistance, players will take it.
 
It may be true that all the crap in PvP is due to player attitude but you can't pretend that this couldn't have been predicted by Carbine. 	
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No offense but I don't think you're getting the point. People that are idling aren't doing it because its a 'safe' strat.
 
Let me phrase this as a personal opinion because this is exactly how I feel. I think PvP in this game is boring as *cupcake*. Sorry, that's just how it is, but consequently, I have no PvP gear whatsoever. Now my raid performance is tied to grinding out 13k(?) prestige from BGs. If I weren't going to get banned for it, I absolutely would queue into a BG and AFK while doing homework, or hell even playing Hearthstone, because both of those activities are significantly more engaging than getting blown up in a sea of telegraphs. I have no incentive to actually equip PvP gear because that would cost me the very prestige I'm trying to farm.
 
As it is, I'm pretty sure I don't have the will to subject myself to PvP so I will probably just /sigh as I get out-dps'd by people that do, but I'm sure there are many out there that feel the same as me but will actually risk AFKing.
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For everyone saying you don't "need" to PvP to get the Ability/AMP points... maybe not but it is by far the most accessible way to get them. Once you get your path rewards, PvP is the only way that (1) requires no skill and (2) is not at all time gated (unless you're completely loaded with plat but very few people can afford to buy all their points). PvP is the clear path of least resistance and it has been proven over and over again that if there is a path of least resistance, players will take it.
 
It may be true that all the crap in PvP is due to player attitude but you can't pretend that this couldn't have been predicted by Carbine.
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For everyone saying you don't "need" to PvP to get the Ability/AMP points... maybe not but it is by far the most accessible way to get them. Once you get your path rewards, PvP is the only way that (1) requires no skill and (2) is not at all time gated (unless you're completely loaded with plat but very few people can afford to buy all their points). PvP is the clear path of least resistance and it has been proven over and over again that if there is a path of least resistance, players will take it.
 
It may be true that all the crap in PvP is due to player attitude but you can't pretend that this couldn't have been predicted by Carbine. 
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			That's the best way to look at it but it could just as easily turn people off because they walk in and have people afking/being awful and think "PvP is unbalanced, too hard to not die, 1800s too stronk gap too large /give up".	
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I used mine and I am still eligible to buy the second
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I don't PvP often, but when I do I play to win. I'm not the best PvPer in the world, hell I wouldn't even say I'm good. But I play for the team. I'll echo that the problem, imo, isn't that they're available for prestige, it's that people just don't want to put in effort. It's an attitude issue through and through. But lets use the same logic that was used on the RP Server with the announcement of Mega-Servers... Sure some of your matches may be ruined, but those that are just there for the points will eventually be culled over the course of a couple weeks as they get their points and who knows, maybe you'll make a few converts in the process and get some people that actually enjoy PvP'ing from time to time and contribute to the team like myself...
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Well, OP... Carbine has been riding the PvP player schlongs so hard and long now that I'm not sure if they are just terrible at MMO balancing, MMO itemization, or just real life morons.
 
PvP players(especially the 1800 exploiters) have had a VERY LARGE edge on PvE dungeons and raids with the massive amount of AP from PvP weapons.
 
I've been working my ass off to be a top DPS warrior in my guild, and can greatly help get silver in any dungeon b/c I know them so well. But GEUSS what!... the only players in my guild that can out DPS me in raids are... YEP YOU GUESSED IT.... PvP weapon users!!!  That don't even know the dungeons or raids!!!!  WTF Carbine?!?!
 
And did I forget to mention all of the class nerfs and tweaks are all PvP related?!
 
Basically what I'm saying is I don't care if they give one amp, or ability point in PvP.  I'm just shocked they haven't done something more like give free drinks and lap dances everyday for being an 1800 pvp'er.
 
ps.  Carbine, how much more completely ass-backwards can you be?  And please don't answer that question... I already know the answer.  Get a f***ing clue already.	
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