Report 1338

Report #1338
Skillset: Shadowbeat Skill: BarghestBlues
 Org: Harbingers Status: Completed Apr 2015
Furies' Decision:
Approved for solution 1.
Problem: BarghestBlues is a low stanza ability in the Shadowbeat skillset. It
adds about one second to the balance recovery for the herb balance, provided the
enemy within the room is both hearing and not captivated. Herb balance has since
been split into three separate balances with plans to remove the remaining herb
balances (aside earwort|faeleaf|myrtle if I understand correctly) in a fourth
new cure. BarghestBlues currently has no effect on the new cures at all,
limiting its usefulness to earwort|myrtle|faeleaf and the remaining herb cures
presently in the system where it originally prolonged herb balance on every herb
cure. This report aims to make sure BarghestBlues retains its value across the
overhaul and remains current with the changing pace of combat.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Have BarghestBlues affect the dust balance.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Have BarghestBlues affect the balances of dust, steam
 and lucidity in addition to the remaining herb
 balances.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: Have BarghestBlues affect the balances of dust and
 lucidity in addition to the remaining herb balances.
Player Comments:
---[Siam on 3/24 @ 08:19 writes]:
In the past, BarghestBlues affected: aurics(reishi), earwort, faeleaf,
dementia(pennyroyal), epilepsy(kombu), stupidity(pennyroyal),
paranoia(pennyroyal), clumsiness(kombu), relapsing(yarrow), sensitivity(myrtle),
weakness(marjoram), healthleech(horehound), recklessness(horehound),
haemophilia(yarrow), addiction(galingale),
confusion(pennyroyal),hallucinations(pennyroyal), deadening(kombu).
---[Yarith on 3/24 @ 08:21 writes]:
All herbs, I'm pretty sure.
---[Siam on 3/24 @ 08:25 writes]:
Yep. All the affs listed above can be given either by Shadowbeat or one of the
Bard tertiaries(Glamours, Dramaturgy, Ecology)
---[Siam on 3/24 @ 08:26 writes]:
The above afflictions and their current cures: aurics(steam blend),
epilepsy(lucidity slush), stupidity(lucidity slush), clumsiness(lucidity slush),
paranoia(lucidity slush), sensitivity(lucidity slush), healthleech(steam blend),
recklessness(lucidity slush), haemophilia(dust), addiction(lucidity slush),
confusion(lucidity slush), hallucinations(lucidity slush).
---[Siam on 3/24 @ 08:28 writes]:
With the details posted above, I suggest having BBlues affect lucidity slush,
purity dust, steam blend, and dust balance IN ADDITION TO faelaef/earwort(if
these are not going away).
---[Lerad on 3/24 @ 09:57 writes]:
Agree with problem premise: in the old system, herbs cured a great deal of
afflictions, including even some which are now slated to become external
afflictions. I think it's reasonable to have barghestblues affect at least the
lucidity/steam/dust balances in order to maintain status quo. Solution 2
supported. Not sure if there is a need for it to affect all affliction curing,
though (even though, as I mentioned, a few of the old herb afflictions will
become external afflictions).
---[Maligorn on 3/24 @ 14:03 writes]:
This sounds like something you could bug (literally bug and figuratively bug
Ieptix about) rather than envoy.
---[Yarith on 3/24 @ 23:19 writes]:
With paralysis being moved to an internal affliction and the ability to
potentially stack it and the worries that may be in that direction, I thought it
would be important to have input from proper combatants rather than prod Ieptix
into making something which, while fine to me, might be a little bit
overwhelming if not given proper forethought. My preference is towards Solution
2.
---[Synkarin on 3/24 @ 23:57 writes]:
I agree with the premise, but delaying even 3 of the 4 new balances seems to be
a rather large buff. Many herb cures had multiple cures (focus, purgs, allheale
in the case of aurics was used readily in octave) and those are all slated to be
focused into one affliction - one cure scheme. I'm hesitant to support any of
the proposed solutions with that in mind. I think extending one cure balance
(maybe dust) is more appropiate
---[Siam on 3/25 @ 02:09 writes]:
Indeed, it was a choice between a slightly extended balance from barghest blues
or mana pressure from focusing with NSB up, although that can be worked around
by only focusing when deaf. Still, I think BBlues would lose its potency if
ceased affecting aurics(steam) and the SB-inherest affs(mostly slush cures) at
the very least. Unless new ideas are put forward, I
---[Siam on 3/25 @ 02:10 writes]:
*I'll be supporting solution 2 for now.
---[Synkarin on 3/25 @ 03:06 writes]:
I'm okay with it affecting steam too, I just said dust because it's closest to
herb. I don't see any issues with slowing steam balance instead. I think it
should only extend 1 of the 4 balances still, not 3 of the 4.
---[Yarith on 3/25 @ 05:22 writes]:
@Synkarin BarghestBlues is not gaining any affect by delaying the three cures as
it originally delayed every one of the cures. Normally you would have had to
cure each of the afflictions in one big chain on the same balance, consecutively
making each cure take longer and longer to cure by regular means. By having the
afflictions spread out over three balances, you can cure three afflictions at
once where you would have originally had to have waited for herb balance to
return each time or focus them off. I am under the impression that the point of
BarghestBlues was originally to force the target to focus. Focusing body under
the influence of NSB consumes 325 mana and, in the most prepared senario,
health. While that may not sound like much, the bard is capable of supplying the
conditions to force the focus passively if the target is above 600 bleeding.
Keeping in mind that at 600 bleeding and under the influence of the Shadowbeat,
your clots will only clot 16 bleeding and cost 1.5 times the regular amount,
the passive pressure from forcing the target to focus amounts to the kill method
where the afflictions do little to help the Harbinger on their own. At the point
of passively inducing paralysis, the target has 600 bleeding. Subtracting, say,
120 from Kingdom, the target is left with 480 units of bleeding. Under the
influence of Bloodycaps, that's 30 clots. 30 clots * 90 mana under the influence
of NSB is 2700 units of mana to remove your bleeding actively. At this
particular point, I think that 325 mana is a respectable amount to burn
considering that the afflictions usually focused off don't generally contribute
to the Harbinger's reliable killmethods. Losing this passive pressure hinders
the Harbingers attrition and the thematic killstyle of the Shadowbeat skillset
which is slowly draining a persons vitals until they die from bleeding out or
bloodletting. If the point of BarghestBlues was originally to force the target
to focus, I believe it should still retain its purpose to force the tar
---[Yarith on 3/25 @ 05:23 writes]:
If the point of BarghestBlues was originally to force the target to focus, I
believe it should still retain its purpose to force the target to need to switch
to other methods of curing across the afflictions which it originally affected.
The steam balance was thrown into Solutions 1 and 2 to reflect the fact that the
Harbingers aurics were originally on the horehound herb and on the herb balance.
Ill admit that the Harbinger has no deeper need to retain this as we dont really
apply any other of the spiritual afflictions. It was added in order to retain
the value of BarghestBlues purpose. While you may view it as a large buff, I am
personally viewing the removal of focus as a (maybe large) nerf to the
Harbingers passive pressure and a dent to their thematic killstyle, where
removing your afflictions through force of will would amount to bleeding out
your vitals and attributing to the bloodletting style. In summary: It is in my
opinion through my use of Shadowbeat before and after the current stage of the
overhaul, the intent of BarghestBlues is to force the focusing of afflictions
and thus attribute to the bloodletting of mana, lending to the bleeding out
thematic, sweating off afflictions which rarely assist the Harbinger reach their
killmethod aside the focusing of them (Passive equil/balance throws, command
denial without a lock, paranoia, clumsiness). Adding a mana cost to consuming
cures seemed like a bogus idea which would compile terribly in a room left
unchecked. This way BarghestBlues retains its original flavour on the three
balances (which it would have taxed anyway). Once again, you may view this as a
buff but I am still personally of the thought that it has hindered the passive
pressure applied by a Harbinger instead of giving them more. Solution 3 would
be the least useful but still enough to keep it used. Any less would not reflect
the skills original intent.
---[Yarith on 3/25 @ 05:27 writes]:
I apologise for the typos in my comments. Ahem.
---[Shuyin on 3/25 @ 22:34 writes]:
Solution 3 is fine. Having it affect more than that seems a bit much for a low
stanza song.
---[Raeri on 3/25 @ 23:38 writes]:
Support, for Solution 3 only.
---[Synkarin on 3/26 @ 00:23 writes]:
After reading that entire comment that pretty much just said the point of
Barghestblues won't actually be relevant after focus is removed, the issue then
comes to the strength of a low stanza song affecting multiple cure balances. It
currently affects one balance for afflictions that have multiple cures (herb,
focus, sometimes purg) and moving that to effect 2/3 of 4 balances in a system
where each affliction only has one cure. This means you'll now be forced to use
that 1 cure each and every time, leading more to the 'chain' effect Yarith
mentioned before. This means that chaining will be much more prevalent post-
overhaul than it is now, pre-overhaul. So yes, I think it'll be a significant
buff to have it effect more than 1 balance, because it'll extend and cause
chaining on multiple balances instead of just one herb balance. I don't really
like the idea of it effecting 2 balances, but I can go for solution 3 for the
time being until things are more finalized and it can be reconsidered.
---[Yarith on 3/26 @ 00:31 writes]:
Yeah. I'm afraid I'm terrible at English and went on a tangent in the above. I'm
happy to support Solution 3.
---[Viynain on 3/26 @ 04:03 writes]:
First of all, try to ease up on the essay comments. Those are some long replies
that could be summarized better, @Yarith. Secondly, support for solution 3 only.
It's a Low stanza effect, and any more balances it would effect should knock it
up to the Mid or High stanza range. Based on @Siam's list of afflictions, it
would be better to have BBlues delay lucidity and steam instead of lucidity and
dust as currently proposed.
---[Enyalida on 3/27 @ 22:03 writes]:
Solution 3 only, agreed that it's still a decent buff - that's probably okay.
---[Kaimanahi on 3/29 @ 21:12 writes]:
For a low stanza song, and with the overhaul placing emphasis on affliction
stacking, any solution which includes a significant delay to curing over
multiple cures is, to me, extraordinarily strong. So I would support this if it
affected one of the four cure balances, or otherwise if the delay was shortened
to less than a second. As to which, I think having this affect dust balance only
would help with the passive afflictions from SpiderCantiga.
---[Llandros on 3/29 @ 21:15 writes]:
Even delaying two of the four will effect half the afflictions in the game
during a time when cure balances are becoming exponentially more important. All
on a low stanza power? No thank you. Also, I'm not sure how this compensates for
the potential situational loss of mana drain from focus. If that was truly the
purpose why not a 1 second delay to scroll balance, sparkle or other secondary
cure/heal?
---[Yarith on 3/29 @ 21:17 writes]:
I've revised Solution 1 to only have BarghestBlues delay the dust balance only
(previously all balances). I support the new Solution 1.
---[Shuyin on 3/29 @ 23:38 writes]:
New solution 1 is fine then. 3 is still okay, but I'm leaning towards 1.
---[Synkarin on 3/30 @ 02:47 writes]:
Solution 1 supported
---[Kaimanahi on 4/1 @ 02:37 writes]:
Solution 1 supported.
---[Viynain on 4/1 @ 05:52 writes]:
Solution 1 only.
---[Maligorn on 4/3 @ 15:48 writes]:
Solution 1 or 3.
---[Enyalida on 4/7 @ 19:46 writes]:
Support solution 1.
---[Kierstin on 4/20 @ 14:14 writes]:
Solution 1 supported
---[Ushaara on 4/29 @ 12:52 writes]:
Also good with Sol #1.