119036-should-returning-players-get-an-instant-level-50-or-a-major-xp-boost

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I really want this. I used to hate this game on my old bad computer, but now that I have a decent rig and can run it on ultra, I adore it. There is a slight problem though. I'm used to wow, but I quite frankly can bear the grind from 1-50. I tried with swtor, which is even shorter than wildstar I think, and I didnt even make it to max level there after playing for months. I got to the grand maximum of level 44. It takes even longer to level in wildstar, therefore I can stop leveling and say that I wont be able to make it.
 
Should returning players (Players that played within the first month of release) get an instant 50 character boost, or a major xp boost (1,200% XP boost) permanently to 50 if they sub? I think it's better that way. And from personal experience, I know that I'm not the only one who thinks the grind is a pain. 
 
Thank you.	
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Actually if you are willing to immerse yourself into the world and storyline, admire the scenary (with ultra!) and take it slow it wouldn't be such a hard experience anymore. Enjoy the leveling aspect of the game  :lol:. Then when you hit level 50 its another domain of fun with raids and their crazy mechanics. :wub:. I still level some alts nowadays, to enjoy the world content from another race's perspective and experience other crafting content as well.
 
So my answer to your question is no. WoW, which already had years of content, and does require some instant level boost for new player to save some time to catch up with the new content. But W* is still a relatively new game. Perhaps as the years go by there will be a need for it. By the way, if you join some guilds, like mine, we do run some guild experience buff that can significantly hasten your leveling, do drop me a PM if you would like to join us.
 
Of course, if you really super lazy and have the money to blow, you can think about some power leveling service. Its definitely an option out there in the real world, just that its not legit, and you run the risk of your account getting hacked or suspended.	
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You made me run out of no and now I have a timeshare I don't need.
 
WAAAAAY too early...	
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It's an interesting approach, I'm not really on-board with an instant to 50 thing seems a little too early for that. Especially if, let's say that you did get an instant level to 50 boost. What then? Go about getting attuned I would imagine but given that you've been away from the game for a while I doubt you'll have the mechanics and stuff sorted out. You'll probably be wiping in dungeons and stuff just trying to remember your rotation. Then returning player = frustrated player. :(
 
As for the XP boosts, I'm all for more XP boosts being made available to us. Especially those of us who have multiple Alts. Just not the way you have described. I mean similar to 2-step verification XP boost.	
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Heya man,
I think the game isn't just what you can do at lev 50, so I would see a boost in a bad way.
 
Since I've leveled 9-50 through BGs only I cannot tell you whether it gets boring after Galeras but what I can tell you is that I know absolutely nothing about the planet of Nexus! Everytime there's someone in my guild asking for help in x-zone I never know how to reach those regiones and I even have to google them! I'm so ashamed about it that I'm now grinding my way up to 50 again :) I'm taking it easy with a couple of level a day, reading quests and I'm really enjoying it. The world is amazing and so is music, I don't feel like I have to rush to lv 50. We have a lot of players in the lv 15-30 range in the guild and we're running dungeons daily so I feel like I'm already experiencing the full game.
 
There are already ways to increase your xp gained, 2-step account verification give maybe +5% plus several house decors! Doesn't it sound great :) At the moment I ain't using any xp boost method or spamming too many dungeons, my major concern is not to outlevel quest zones cause that would take the fun away of it ^_^	
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Nop.
Returning players should start playing the game properly and actually experience the changes in it from the get-go.
I really do not need/want a freshly boosted level 50 in my dungeon or raids run who has no clue how to properly interupt or what even half of his abilities do.
Playing the game gives you a basic understand of how your class plays, with the knowledge expanding over time as you unlock more things.
 
Someone who did not play one character to 50 and then get's boosted to 50?
Disaster waiting to happen in dungeons and raids.	
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Instant level 50?
You do know it doesn't take that long to level via questing.
I've just got my second level 50 and I'm a very casual player. It was just as immersive as the first time.
 
Back in my day we grinded a full month for one level at end game...	
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			TBH I wish they had a refer a friend program to both urge players to get a friend to play and boost EXP for people, a lot of people don't like EXPing but it's also a chance for you to become accustomed to the game and prepare you to play at 50.Trust me on this, even people that grinded to 50/do adventures aren't prepared for dungeons. Taking the time to understand the importance of every ability is something a lot of players just don't do. Interrupts are important, and sometimes so are survival abilities.	
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Instant level 50?
You do know it doesn't take that long to level via questing.
I've just got my second level 50 and I'm a very casual player. It was just as immersive as the first time.
 
Back in my day we grinded a full month for one level at end game...
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			I'm going with no we aren't even an expansion in yet. Returning players should be getting free time to see if changes that were put in place will keep them around	
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Back In my day my ass. This is 2014, not 2000.
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to the OP
 
this isn't wow there isn't 4 expantions to get through. so you have 2 choices 1 go play WoW and pay 60$ for a free 90. or 2 STOP BEING LAZY! and work for your toon and learn it free lvl ups do nothing but get ppl to end game with no clue how to play and makes ppl who did put in the time and learned the class feel cheap.  or just thought of a 3rd option go play one of those F2P game where you can pay to be max lvl and pay for the best gear w/o working for it. if have that much extra cash I know their is a animal shelter or a homeless shelter that can make better use of your cash.
 
to everyone else sorry for the rant.	
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Maybe an XP boost item (+50% XP for a day or something) but instant level 50 would be crazy. The reason WoW give people a quick 90 is so they can get straight to the expansions, which to be fair is a great idea; nobody wants to have to play a new class through that old content for the fifthteenth hundred time before they can experience the new stuff.
 
Wildstar has no such expansions therefore has no need for boosters.	
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This is a big fat no for me.
 
What I would like to see, however, is perhaps a Recruit-a-Friend system and something similar to the scroll of resurrection. (I'm sure this has been brought up before)..
The rewards could be anything:
 
- a few XP,Rep,Renown boosts for the returning player (and maybe the recruiter as well)
- A free rented mount for recruitee 
- a mount and/or flair for the recruiter
- Extra boomboxes for the recruiter 
- Special dye for the recruiter
- A title for the recruiter
 
Now THAT might bring in more players to try the game. 
 
A big chunk of content in MMOs is the leveling aspect itself. Now if WildStar was 10 years old, it would be a lot different. The zones we see today would be graphically outdated, and imagine how long it would take to level to 100 in WildStar.
Adding instant level 50 and high XP boosts would be ridiculous and definitely TOO SOON. 
 
Edit: I posted too late! Naix beat me to it.	
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			I think levelling should be at least a tiny bit of an effort. If not for anything else then at least for a person to learn how to play the chosen class. Especially needed in Wildstar. Pusing people straight to 50 will just result them complaining about way too hard content without them even knowing how to properly use their skills.	
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			only thing I can think of as a good reason to boost exp is for Alts after you have lvled atleast 1 toon to 50. as far as free rental mounts its 5s for 24hrs of time played not RL time.	
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Back In my day my ass. This is 2014, not 2000.
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Should returning players (Players that played within the first month of release) get an instant 50 character boost, or a major xp boost (1,200% XP boost) permanently to 50 if they sub? I think it's better that way. And from personal experience, I know that I'm not the only one who thinks the grind is a pain. 
 
Thank you.
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No.
 
Why would you need a boost to 50 anyway? It doesn't even take that long.	
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I'll have to join the "No" chorus over here. By doing this Carbine would essentially be rewarding people for not playing the game. That seems a bit backwards to me.Not only that, it would also be a reinforcement of "the only gameplay that matters is at end-game", which invalidates the levelling experience completely. Why bother with levelling if the "true" game lies at the very end? Just cut to the chase and don't use levels at all, if that's the case, for any and all players.
 
I sympathize with not wanting to do the grinding in yet another MMO, but the levelling experience should be as important as end-game, not less.	
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			Lets put it quick and simple: no.	
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			Is there a Wildstar expansion with added levels no one told me about? No? There's your answer.	
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No.
 
Reason: 50 levels in WS is not that time consuming to obtain.  It's not like WoW ( or other games that have been around a while ( e.g. EQ ) ), that need to catch people up to play given that there are multiple expacs.  If WS was in the same situation, then sure, but it is not.  I know SWTOR is doing something like this but, TBH, since it is so new it is a cop out.  SWTOR, and other new games ( like WS ) need to find a compelling way to make people to want to play their games.  Given the capricious nature of the player pool for MMORPGS these days, that is a herculean task (all due to the age of ... Me).	
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No.
 
Reason: 50 levels in WS is not that time consuming to obtain.  It's not like WoW ( or other games that have been around a while ( e.g. EQ ) ), that need to catch people up to play given that there are multiple expacs.  If WS was in the same situation, then sure, but it is not.  I know SWTOR is doing something like this but, TBH, since it is so new it is a cop out.  SWTOR, and other new games ( like WS ) need to find a compelling way to make people to want to play their games.  Given the capricious nature of the player pool for MMORPGS these days, that is a herculean task (all due to the age of ... Me).
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XP bonus, sure. It takes all of 5 levels to go huh, I have a few buttons to press, and few more if I want a mob stunned. Instant 50? Nah. There are enough people that can't seem to function at lvl 50 even having spent X number of hours learning each new thing 1 at a time. 
 
I mean, I was in a SSM run with a medic healer who had ~2700sp, and said healer was insulted to the point of cursing out the person who suggested she use shield surge. Apparently she didn't use SS or mending probes ever, just emission and CW.	
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No.
 
Why would you need a boost to 50 anyway? It doesn't even take that long.
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What the hell is this ? instant level 50? So you wanna skip the entire leveling journey? That's crazy!
 
Takes you about 22 hours from 1 to 50 if you do the zone/regional quests	
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Could you imagine the outrage that would happen if the did that? Haha- reward people for leaving the game?
 
If you were bored enough to leave the game early on, you are going to be super board after a month of end-game.	
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Give players a boost to level 50?  Like.... as if getting to 50 is hard?
 
Look, I love almost every inch of this game, but aren't like 90% of the complaints right now about the ENDGAME and the lack of people 1-49 in queues and brackets?  How would instantly making a bunch of incoming players 50 help here?	
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Give players a boost to level 50?  Like.... as if getting to 50 is hard?
 
Look, I love almost every inch of this game, but aren't like 90% of the complaints right now about the ENDGAME and the lack of people 1-49 in queues and brackets?  How would instantly making a bunch of incoming players 50 help here?
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I'm going to say no as well. 1-50 in this game is ridiculously quick if you really want to be 50 fast.
 
However if you're looking to get to 50 quick this is my advice:
Stick to only doing zone/region/world quests,
If you're not sure if you've done all the zone/region/world quests in your area check your acheivements for "episodes"
Always make sure you have the experience boosts from housing, netting you a minimum 7% boost with the authentication.(12% if the bonus from housing is 10% that day)
With the above I ended up at grimvault at level 49 and then i switched over to the daily zones which got me the last level. Hope that helps....	
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			no	
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			After the game has been out for 10 years yes. Its way to early for boosting to max level. Exp over all needs to be changed, it simply is to much of a grind to level alts.	
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I'm going with no we aren't even an expansion in yet. Returning players should be getting free time to see if changes that were put in place will keep them around
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IMO it's a bit early for that.  If they did offer something like that I'd rather it be gated to those who already have a 50 in that faction.  Personally I'd prefer more alternate levelling content.
 
I call shenanigans on the assertion that levelling is required to teach people how to play.  5-10 levels is sufficient for the base mechanics.  If you can't figure it out by then, you're going to struggle when you hit 50.  Conversely if you have at least a general working knowledge of your role mechanics you can step into a class at 50 and be functional within a week or two to work out the game specific nuances.	
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As a person who just canceled and has never seen this game past level 23... I admit that the leveling in this game is terrible.  There is nothing "hardcore" about spamming the same 5 abilities for months.  There is nothing "hardcore" about staying out of red circles / red lines and making sure green circles / green lines hit your enemy.
 
You know what IS hardcore?  Being the only person in an entire zone, having no one to play with, and then coming to the forums to see level 50 players who no-lifed for a month straight telling others they are wrong "because its just so damn hard to dodge red circles man."	
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Well not let's be honest real honest. I'm going to tell the truth.
 
The reason that this game failed in the first place was purely because of the 1-50 grind. It took extremely long, It was hard and everything.
 
Now that even after all servers have been merged together, this game is still going to die. Reason? because you can't get back your old subs. They are your bread and butter. The casuals are your bread and butter. Casuals doesen't have time from the horrific grind, if you include death times. 
 
Let's be frank, what's so fun about smashing 8 different same abilities all the time, trough 50 levels that takes forever to do? To back it up with other MMO's, they don't have a limited action set, and therefore a lot of different.
 
So don't you even dare to come here to call me a filthy noob, and be cocky, because not everyone is hardcore no lifers, someone has a life aswell. Reaching max level shouldn't take more than a week/less than a month. It's pretty impossible to that in this game when leveling is so freaking terrible.
 
But at the end of the day, this game will go to the ground unless they find a way to bring back old players, SUCH AS an XP boost, or instant level 50. You know what's fun? Being the ONLYONE in an ENTIRE zone on one of two servers. You think that's fun? No. Do you think this keeps people exited to reach max level? No. /Thread	
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Well not let's be honest real honest. I'm going to tell the truth.
 
The reason that this game failed in the first place was purely because of the 1-50 grind. It took extremely long, It was hard and everything.
 
Now that even after all servers have been merged together, this game is still going to die. Reason? because you can't get back your old subs. They are your bread and butter. The casuals are your bread and butter. Casuals doesen't have time from the horrific grind, if you include death times. 
 
Let's be frank, what's so fun about smashing 8 different same abilities all the time, trough 50 levels that takes forever to do? To back it up with other MMO's, they don't have a limited action set, and therefore a lot of different.
 
So don't you even dare to come here to call me a filthy noob, and be cocky, because not everyone is hardcore no lifers, someone has a life aswell. Reaching max level shouldn't take more than a week/less than a month. It's pretty impossible to that in this game when leveling is so freaking terrible.
 
But at the end of the day, this game will go to the ground unless they find a way to bring back old players, SUCH AS an XP boost, or instant level 50. You know what's fun? Being the ONLYONE in an ENTIRE zone on one of two servers. You think that's fun? No. Do you think this keeps people exited to reach max level? No. /Thread
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Well not let's be honest real honest. I'm going to tell the truth.
 
The reason that this game failed in the first place was purely because of the 1-50 grind. It took extremely long, It was hard and everything.
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-rage-
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As a person who just canceled and has never seen this game past level 23... I admit that the leveling in this game is terrible.  There is nothing "hardcore" about spamming the same 5 abilities for months.  There is nothing "hardcore" about staying out of red circles / red lines and making sure green circles / green lines hit your enemy.
 
You know what IS hardcore?  Being the only person in an entire zone, having no one to play with, and then coming to the forums to see level 50 players who no-lifed for a month straight telling others they are wrong "because its just so damn hard to dodge red circles man."
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Well not let's be honest real honest. I'm going to tell the truth.
 
The reason that this game failed in the first place was purely because of the 1-50 grind. It took extremely long, It was hard and everything.
 
Now that even after all servers have been merged together, this game is still going to die. Reason? because you can't get back your old subs. They are your bread and butter. The casuals are your bread and butter. Casuals doesen't have time from the horrific grind, if you include death times. 
 
Let's be frank, what's so fun about smashing 8 different same abilities all the time, trough 50 levels that takes forever to do? To back it up with other MMO's, they don't have a limited action set, and therefore a lot of different.
 
So don't you even dare to come here to call me a filthy noob, and be cocky, because not everyone is hardcore no lifers, someone has a life aswell. Reaching max level shouldn't take more than a week/less than a month. It's pretty impossible to that in this game when leveling is so freaking terrible.
 
But at the end of the day, this game will go to the ground unless they find a way to bring back old players, SUCH AS an XP boost, or instant level 50. You know what's fun? Being the ONLYONE in an ENTIRE zone on one of two servers. You think that's fun? No. Do you think this keeps people exited to reach max level? No. /Thread
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I've always wondered why you buy a game that is all about leveling (first 1-50 leveling, then gear acquisition), and then don't want to experience all the content you have paid for.
 
It's like paying for a week's vacation in the Bahamas, and then just staying at the airport until it is time to fly back home, buying your crossword puzzles pre-filled, or buying a burger and just eating the bread, etc...
 
The old City of Heroes MMO used to have double-XP weekends. I tried to actively avoid them, as that meant that the characters I liked playing lasted for less time. (CoH did not have much of an endgame; people used to say that the CoH endgame was rolling up an alt - on the other hand, power sets were amazingly varied, and team play in the 10-35 lvl range in CoH was so fun you happily experienced it again and again.)	
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Just to add my voice to the cacaphony.
 
No.  The game does not begin at level 50.
 
I'm not trying to be mean, but the best way to level is to stop worrying about leveling, and just explore, quest, and play for fun.  Who cares how long it takes?	
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			I would say probably not.  Use rested XP.	
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If the lvl 1-50 "grind" is the reason you don't play the game, because it's too hard and painful... Then I fear the days of a decent MMO being made are dead and gone.
 
I don't play a ton, a couple nights a week, more on the weekend, and I'm not at lvl 44. I've enjoyed my ride so far quite a lot and actually appreciate the fact that I'm not yet 50. It's refreshing to play a game that takes more than 2 weeks of casual play to get to the lvl cap.	
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			saving this thread for next time someone says wow did not ruin mmos.	
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Should I respond to this post with a no?  Yes.
 
Also Guy, ain't that the truth.	
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I've always wondered why you buy a game that is all about leveling (first 1-50 leveling, then gear acquisition), and then don't want to experience all the content you have paid for.
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			It's not that hard. I have 3 50's, and 3 at 35-40. If I really wanted, I could have the last 3 to 50 by the end of the month, but I don't "really want" so I'll continue to work on them on the 10% quest exp bonus days, and work on my main the rest of the time. Think of it as the starter quests to attunement =P	
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No on the instant 50. The quality of players in this game was already really low - now you want a bunch of noobs running around standing in telegraphs because they instant dinged 50? Pass.
 
Leveling to 50 is what made me not noob. It was *cupcake*ing brutal at the time but dying a million times to 3 pack trash pulls that were 3 levels ahead of me taught me to play smart.	
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			I'd rather this didn't happen. I enjoy levelling my characters and having them instantly level to 50 would take away the part of the game I enjoy the most. I don't think a major EXP boost is necessary either because, as Typrop said, there are numerous ways to boost your EXP gain which is enough to significantly speed up levelling as is.	
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No. Do it the hard way!
 
No one wants clueless lvl 50 learning to play the game during their first veteran dungeon...	
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I've always wondered why you buy a game that is all about leveling (first 1-50 leveling, then gear acquisition), and then don't want to experience all the content you have paid for.
 
It's like paying for a week's vacation in the Bahamas, and then just staying at the airport until it is time to fly back home, buying your crossword puzzles pre-filled, or buying a burger and just eating the bread, etc...
 
The old City of Heroes MMO used to have double-XP weekends. I tried to actively avoid them, as that meant that the characters I liked playing lasted for less time. (CoH did not have much of an endgame; people used to say that the CoH endgame was rolling up an alt - on the other hand, power sets were amazingly varied, and team play in the 10-35 lvl range in CoH was so fun you happily experienced it again and again.)
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As it stands, I'm going to laugh myself silly when this MMO get's crushed
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I choose what I want to do with my game time thank you.
 
As I said, do you think it's fun always being the only person in each zone all the time? No, it's not, it really isn't. As it stands, I'm going to laugh myself silly when this MMO get's crushed
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How sad that you would be this way.
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And if it's not a game that fits your preferred playstyle, why buy it and then go and demand/whine that it should be reworked to suit you?
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Because they said "The devs are listening"
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I'm pretty sure it's several dozens of "no" vs. one "yes", so... I'm not sure the devs listening would help your position.
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Because they said "The devs are listening"
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			This is great work time entertainment.	
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			Devs, I agree 100% with the OP. And while you're at it please remove all quests, raids, and battlegrounds. Basically I just want to stand around in Thayd and you mail me an epic item every two minutes.	
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I really want this. I used to hate this game on my old bad computer, but now that I have a decent rig and can run it on ultra, I adore it. There is a slight problem though. I'm used to wow, but I quite frankly can bear the grind from 1-50. I tried with swtor, which is even shorter than wildstar I think, and I didnt even make it to max level there after playing for months. I got to the grand maximum of level 44. It takes even longer to level in wildstar, therefore I can stop leveling and say that I wont be able to make it.
 
Should returning players (Players that played within the first month of release) get an instant 50 character boost, or a major xp boost (1,200% XP boost) permanently to 50 if they sub? I think it's better that way. And from personal experience, I know that I'm not the only one who thinks the grind is a pain. 
 
Thank you.
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I am the one who should beel sad for the Wildstar community
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Gonna hit 50 on my stalker soon with only 1 day and 4 hours /played.
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Gonna hit 50 on my stalker soon with only 1 day and 4 hours /played.
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My /played time is so messed up, I AFK for hours sometimes LOL  I just don't like the hassle of doing the 2step, so if I'm doing chores or something, I'll wander over to my comp and make my characters move :P
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And if it's not a game that fits your preferred playstyle, why buy it and then go and demand/whine that it should be reworked to suit you?
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Then they are lying right in my face
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			Dang, this thread makes me feel slow/inefficient - I've only gotten to 41 in bit over a month.	
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Dang, this thread makes me feel slow/inefficient - I've only gotten to 41 in bit over a month.
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Are people seriously so casual and feel so entitled nowadays that they think they deserve instant gratification just for subscribing to a game? How things have fallen...
 
I do not sympathize with you in any way. Wildstar's questline and content are actually a lot of fun if you actually get into them and enjoy them for what they are. The leveling experience in Wildstar is part of the fun of the game, so enjoy it and stop complaining about not being max level instantly upon subscription like in World of Warcraft now. That game's not even an RPG anymore, it's just a dungeon grinder.	
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I get why people don't want inexperienced players in their lvl 50 dungeons but I kinda understand the op. Leveling now is boring as hell. This game is a mmorpg (massive multiplayer online roleplaying game) but leveling now has nothing to do with massive multiplayer. 
 
I played in beta and at release but only for about a month. A few days ago I got a mail and a code for 7 days playtime. So I thought yeah why not. They put the servers together to so called mega servers so this should work. But after 2 days playing I ask myself where are the other players? Without kidding I saw 2 other players within 2 days. Just for fun I queue in for battlefield and adventures but none of these ever open. So all you can do is play one zone after the other. Tbh. I had much more fun in beta when I didn't feel that alone. 
The heck where are all the players? Is everyone 50 by now and having fun?
Maybe leveling would be more interesting if you get other people and level as group but still.. there're parts of the game you just cannot enjoy because of the lack of players.	
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I get why people don't want inexperienced players in their lvl 50 dungeons but I kinda understand the op. Leveling now is boring as hell. This game is a mmorpg (massive multiplayer online roleplaying game) but leveling now has nothing to do with massive multiplayer. 
 
I played in beta and at release but only for about a month. A few days ago I got a mail and a code for 7 days playtime. So I thought yeah why not. They put the servers together to so called mega servers so this should work. But after 2 days playing I ask myself where are the other players? Without kidding I saw 2 other players in 2 days. Just for fun I queue in for battlefield and adventures but none of these ever open. So all you can do is play one zone after the other. Tbh. I had much more fun in beta when I didn't feel that alone. 
The heck where are all the players? Is everyone 50 by now and having fun?
Maybe leveling would be more interesting if you get other people and level as group but still.. there're parts of the game you just cannot enjoy because of the lack of players.
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Try to find level 10s in any MMO.
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People not using group finder =/= lack of players to do group content.  I've been getting the over all feeling that group finder in W* lately has been shunned.  Make friends, join a circle, join a guild, see if anyone is willing to do group content by actually talking to people instead of using group finder.
 
 
 
W*, Devs, take that as a hint to improve what ever it is that is causing people to not want to use group finder  ;)	
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If Carbine sold boosts they'd make money hand over fist. It certainly isn't hurting Blizzard to let players boost their characters to 90 for a measly 60 bucks.
 
If that ever happens, though, these forums would erupt into a volcanic cauldron of rage.	
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This is the most cupcaked thing I've heard in my life.
 
A. HUGE. RED. CUPCAKING. NO.
 
Why play an MMORPG at all? There's always League of Legends, you'll get capped there in less than an hour!	
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I've already chimed in with a no earlier... but I'm just clarifying that it is for the simple reason that it is way too early in the game's life cycle to be doing that kind of nonsense.
 
You basically want to skip 80% of the game, and that's totally unreasonable and unrealistic.	
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If Carbine sold boosts they'd make money hand over fist. It certainly isn't hurting Blizzard to let players boost their characters to 90 for a measly 60 bucks.
 
If that ever happens, though, these forums would erupt into a volcanic cauldron of rage.
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I've never understood why people want to get to max level as quickly as possible. I mean, if you hate the game so much that you want to skip most of it, why on earth are you playing it in the first place? Skipping all the way to max level is wrong on so many levels, but to take a few highlights why it's wrong:
 
1. If all you want to do is reach max level, you are missing out on just about the entire game. So what if you can run dungeons and raids now? You can do that early on, too. PvP? Early on. If you hate the game so much that you want to skip most of it, this isn't the game for you. What's next? You hate FPS-games, but you still want to get all the weapons and fight the bosses, so naturally, all FPS-games should include a boss-run mode right from the start?
 
2. MMORPGs are getting far too casual as it is, meaning leveling is ridiculously fast these days. Back in early LotRO, it took me a week to reach level 20. I almost cried when they changed it so you can reach level 20 in two days without even trying. Where's the point in that? Even when I ONLY did the mandatory story-quests, I still out-leveled most of the content all the time. Meaning side-quests were pointless. Why on earth would anyone want that fate in this game too?
 
3. If all you want is PvP, they could learn from Guild Wars 1 and let us create a max level, PvP-only character. This way you can do all the PvP you want, and you won't have to ruin the rest of the game.
 
4. Where's the fun in being max level anyway? I never understood that part. What can you possibly do at max level that you can't do early on too? Dungeons? Adventures? PvP? You can do all that early on. Why do you want to skip all that, just so you can reach max level in an hour and do all this stuff on a max level character? No matter how I see it, it doesn't make any sense. Are the high-level areas really so much fun, that it's worth skipping out 90% of the game to get there? WHy????
 
5. And let's say you do get to create a max-level character. Did it ever occur to you that it means you don't know squat about playing it? If you are heading into a veteran dungeon, do you really want to depend on a healer who has played said healier literally less than ten minutes? Or do you want to depend on one who got to max level the hard way and has gotten a lot of experience on how to play one, and thus knows what he or she is doing?
 
6. If we can skip to max level, why do we even have levels to begin with? Why not get rid of levels entirely and make this a pure action-game? Just do it Borderlands-style, so we can get randomized weapons and armor. That way we can always get better stuff, and we won't have to skip 90% of the game to get to the fun stuff. Except, of course, you realize that this is an RPG, and that leveling should be the fun stuff. This isn't Call of Duty or a MOBA, so why try to turn it into one?
 
I could go on, but you hopefully get the point. If you don't want an RPG, why on earth do you insist on playing one and whine until they change it into an action-game?	
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6. If we can skip to max level, why do we even have levels to begin with? Why not get rid of levels entirely and make this a pure action-game? Just do it Borderlands-style, so we can get randomized weapons and armor. That way we can always get better stuff, and we won't have to skip 90% of the game to get to the fun stuff. Except, of course, you realize that this is an RPG, and that leveling should be the fun stuff. This isn't Call of Duty or a MOBA, so why try to turn it into one?
 
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I could go on, but you hopefully get the point.
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This whole post is wrong and insulting on so many levels.
 
You'd do better in life to stop shoving your personal style of playing a game down other players' throats. An MMO is not a traditional JRPG and it's as much about competitive and cooperative gameplay as it is about leveling. Your claim that leveling dungeons are the same as endgame dungeons is just so far off base it's ignorant.
 
I'm not calling you ignorant, this isn't about name calling— but you have to be willfully shutting the blinders to not realize the breadth and significance of endgame for a HUGE number of players in the MMO community.
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But this game is not solely an MMO.
it's an MMORPG. You cannot ignore the RPG fact as you just did.
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I'll be honest, while I've never been a fan of "the game starts at 50" logic, I've had a lot more fun at 50 than I did leveling. But I did enjoy the leveling and I didn't rush it either.
 
In general I find life to be better when I try to enjoy where I'm at rather than looking to where I'm going. This applies to MMOs too.	
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The older I get, the less I feel like levels are the best solution for character progression.  Quite frankly, they're a transient feature since all of the character progression from levelling stops at one point or another, and is replaced by gear.  Maybe if there were no hard level cap, but you could still de-level, it would return some value to the concept of levels... but that's a whole different host of problems.
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How do you figure I ignored the RP part, Olivar? Did I come here making a post saying MMOs are ONLY about endgame? This player is asserting that leveling is the sole defining part of an MMO and people who don't like leveling and running around the world are just fooling themselves and, apparently, wasting time.
 
So when I come here and call out that person for completely writing off a playstyle they simply don't prefer, why would you take my argument to an illogical extreme and suggest I'm trying to do the same thing as this person (i.e. suppress other playstyles)?
 
Play how you want. That's my point. I hardly see how that point is ignoring the RPG... <_<
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Really, there's no difference except that levels come regularly from completing game content, gear generally does not.  Otherwise, it's nothing more than playing until your stats go up.
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It's different in that while leveling I did quests and to get gear I do dungeons, the latter which I find a lot more fun.
 
There's also a difference in how players interact. It's easier to play with others with different gear, not so much with levels. If someone enters my guild at 50 with no gear, there's no problem running some adventures and getting him some gear, or maybe even just dragging him through a dungeon or two. Whereas if anyone comes into my guild at level 20 we pretty much aren't interacting until he gets to 50. Even if I level down to do a dungeon with him, usually it's trivialized anyway by my presence. It's also not that much of a benefit to him.
 
Of course, the end game instanced content is a lot flatter than levels, so that makes this work. If there were 50 levels of dungeons separated by gear progression, I suppose it wouldn't look that much different.
 
At the end of the day, since I like instanced content the game is most enjoyable at 50 (yes, the dungeons were great while leveling, but if I'm not leveling at the same time as my friends, I only get the pug experience- the best part about dungeons is doing them with friends), but I don't complain about leveling.
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I'm not sure why you're quoting my post, Vic, as yours doesn't really address anything I said. :P
 
If you folks want to argue that MMOs are only about (or predominantly about) the leveling experience, I think you're really stepping outside the boundaries of rational dialogue.
 
There is NO one dominant way or purpose for the MMO game. A large part of the fun of these games is that they offer so many things to many different players. Tons of people like to take their time, read the cool lore, see the sights and smell the roses, tons of people like to get to endgame where the rules are tighter for PVE/PVP content, where the challenge is greater, where organization  is more demanding. Endgame is where character progression turns from learning abilities (which is all you really get out of levels, other than statistical adjustment which gear also provides) to learning how to use those abilities effectively in more demanding situations (ranked PVP and veteran dungeons/raids).
 
Again, it's insulting to have people come here and act like they know what makes an MMO for the millions of players that form the genre's broad community. Please stop. When MMOs are developed a ton of time and effort goes into endgame, and arguably endgame is more dominant than leveling during expansions. There's plenty of evidence that endgame is roughly equal to leveling for both developers and players, and that choosing which is 'most important' or 'most relevant' to the genre is up to the individual.
 
 
Here, let me reuse the argument to show how flimsy it is:
 
MMOs are video games. Video games are about gameplay, not theater. MMOs weren't made for a bunch of people to write notes to one another about stuff that doesn't actually exist in-game. Effectively, MMOs weren't made for roleplaying, they were made for leveling.
 
See how annoying that is?  Note that I don't believe a word of it, but if you're going to argue that leveling trumps all you're going to see some pretty stupid conclusions.	
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I'm not sure why you're quoting my post, Vic, as yours doesn't really address anything I said. :P
 
If you folks want to argue that MMOs are only about (or predominantly about) the leveling experience, I think you're really stepping outside the boundaries of rational dialogue.
 
There is NO one dominant way or purpose for the MMO game. A large part of the fun of these games is that they offer so many things to many different players. Tons of people like to take their time, read the cool lore, see the sights and smell the roses, tons of people like to get to endgame where the rules are tighter for PVE/PVP content, where the challenge is greater, where organization  is more demanding. Endgame is where character progression turns from learning abilities (which is all you really get out of levels, other than statistical adjustment which gear also provides) to learning how to use those abilities effectively in more demanding situations (ranked PVP and veteran dungeons/raids).
 
Again, it's insulting to have people come here and act like they know what makes an MMO for the millions of players that form the genre's broad community. Please stop. When MMOs are developed a ton of time and effort goes into endgame, and arguably endgame is more dominant than leveling during expansions. There's plenty of evidence that endgame is roughly equal to leveling for both developers and players, and that choosing which is 'most important' or 'most relevant' to the genre is up to the individual.
 
 
Here, let me reuse the argument to show how flimsy it is:
 
MMOs are video games. Video games are about gameplay, not theater. MMOs weren't made for a bunch of people to write notes to one another about stuff that doesn't actually exist in-game. Effectively, MMOs weren't made for roleplaying, they were made for leveling.
 
See how annoying that is?  Note that I don't believe a word of it, but if you're going to argue that leveling trumps all you're going to see some pretty stupid conclusions.
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There's also a difference in how players interact. It's easier to play with others with different gear, not so much with levels. If someone enters my guild at 50 with no gear, there's no problem running some adventures and getting him some gear, or maybe even just dragging him through a dungeon or two. Whereas if anyone comes into my guild at level 20 we pretty much aren't interacting until he gets to 50. Even if I level down to do a dungeon with him, usually it's trivialized anyway by my presence. It's also not that much of a benefit to him.
 
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I've never understood why people want to get to max level as quickly as possible. I mean, if you hate the game so much that you want to skip most of it, why on earth are you playing it in the first place? Skipping all the way to max level is wrong on so many levels...
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Are you joking right now, Olivar?
 
Person A:  "You can only play the game this way! That's what it's made for!" 
Person B: "You can play the game many different ways... choose which way suits you best."
 
How can you seriously sit there and say I, Person B, is doing the same thing that Person A is doing? I'm ADVOCATING FOR CHOICE. I'm saying that endgame is as important as leveling in the big picture but that ultimately there is no sole defining element that we all need to adhere to.	
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From my perspective the "problem" with levelling content is that it mildly discourages grouping.  Or rather works on the assumption that most people are cool with random grouping.  Static levelling groups only work if all the members are within a level of each other.  Most MMO's start punishing XP gains if the level disparity gets too large.  If you like to run with friends then you start having to deal with coordination issues.  You're then beholden to their schedules.  If you play more than them, then you're back to solo'ing or coordinating another group (yay! more schedules).
 
 
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There's no logical difference between trying to gear up and trying to raise your level besides the rhetorical and circumstantial ones.  I don't know why "leveling" is any different than the endgame besides process.  If they had a level 15 20-man raid, there wouldn't be any difference
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The brilliant exception to this was the unfortunately killed-off MMO City of Heroes. ...
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In a word - No.
 
Pretty simple really, everyone else had to play trough bugs etc to get to 50, why should someone who peed off and came back or has just started get treated any different?  There's been loads of QoL changes anyway already.	
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So what about people who decide they want to explore their off-spec?  Should they not be allowed to try unless they've gone through the entire levelling process in spec? 
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I'm not sure why you're quoting my post, Vic, as yours doesn't really address anything I said. :P
 
If you folks want to argue that MMOs are only about (or predominantly about) the leveling experience, I think you're really stepping outside the boundaries of rational dialogue.
 
There is NO one dominant way or purpose for the MMO game. A large part of the fun of these games is that they offer so many things to many different players. Tons of people like to take their time, read the cool lore, see the sights and smell the roses, tons of people like to get to endgame where the rules are tighter for PVE/PVP content, where the challenge is greater, where organization  is more demanding. Endgame is where character progression turns from learning abilities (which is all you really get out of levels, other than statistical adjustment which gear also provides) to learning how to use those abilities effectively in more demanding situations (ranked PVP and veteran dungeons/raids).
 
Again, it's insulting to have people come here and act like they know what makes an MMO for the millions of players that form the genre's broad community. Please stop. When MMOs are developed a ton of time and effort goes into endgame, and arguably endgame is more dominant than leveling during expansions. There's plenty of evidence that endgame is roughly equal to leveling for both developers and players, and that choosing which is 'most important' or 'most relevant' to the genre is up to the individual.
 
 
Here, let me reuse the argument to show how flimsy it is:
 
MMOs are video games. Video games are about gameplay, not theater. MMOs weren't made for a bunch of people to write notes to one another about stuff that doesn't actually exist in-game. Effectively, MMOs weren't made for roleplaying, they were made for leveling.
 
See how annoying that is?  Note that I don't believe a word of it, but if you're going to argue that leveling trumps all you're going to see some pretty stupid conclusions.
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There is really nothing going on at 50 that's more interesting than the process of getting there.
 
Why skip the most developed portion of the game?	
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			Seeing people queueing for veteran SSM and then once in the instance telling you "hello, I've started playing the game 10 minutes ago, how do we play it?" would be a lot of fun. Seeing them telling "*cupcake*this game this is too hard" 10 minutes later would be quite disastrous and destructive for the game itself though.	
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I think your confusion is that you assume RPG refers directly to live roleplaying, when it's really referring to a system of what began as book games that stressed character development rather than the static world of games at the time. 
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That's why I didn't say MMO, I said RPG.  That's what Olivar is talking about.  MMO just means mass multiplayer online.  They don't technically have to be RPGs.  But Wildstar is a MMORPG, and RPGs do revolve around the leveling experience.  It's what sets an RPG apart from any other game.
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I think a game like Wildstar loses something when having a level 50 is no big deal and can be accomplished in a matter of days, but being in Datascape is close on to godhood.  That sacrifice was made for the attention spans of a younger generation than mine, so I understand why it's done.
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There is really nothing going on at 50 that's more interesting than the process of getting there.
 
Why skip the most developed portion of the game?
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Heh.
 
 
Is there not a gearscore check?  That always boggled my mind about TOR... No matter how skilled a person is, there are some fights you just won't get through without an appropriate amount of gear.
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This is insulting and holier-than-thou and ageist. I don't think I can really take your comments seriously anymore. 
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This is entirely the wrong game to allow instant level cap characters. The questing experience is also there to introduce you to important mechanics such as interrupt armor, a feel for the combat (ie finally being able to double jump, dash etc) and a better understanding for your class, although class mechanics are quite simple. 
 
I don't mind a minor EXP gain, but the levelling process is much more than just questing. It's there to give you a better understanding your class and all in all the game you play. 	
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Levels are equivalent to power.  Power to explore, power to fight, and power to access opportunities.  The process of levelling is done to access that power at a measured rate, and that's one of the rules of the game world that determines what you can or cannot do at any given time.
 
You could argue that an MMORPG (or RPG in general) doesn't need levels to begin with, and all character progression is done through drops. Unfortunately, that's not the kind of game Wildstar is, so you cannot argue that you should be allowed to ignore the rules and get handed a full power character.
 
WoW only does it because it has had 5 expansions, and surprising no one, they don't actually level you to the cap of the current expansion.  They allow you to jump to 90 because new players and returning players who skipped a couple of expansions wouldn't buy it at all if they had to rush through 7 years worth of content just to get to the new stuff.  So yes, levelling is a requirement, even in WoD.	
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I really want this. I used to hate this game on my old bad computer, but now that I have a decent rig and can run it on ultra, I adore it. There is a slight problem though. I'm used to wow, but I quite frankly can bear the grind from 1-50. I tried with swtor, which is even shorter than wildstar I think, and I didnt even make it to max level there after playing for months. I got to the grand maximum of level 44. It takes even longer to level in wildstar, therefore I can stop leveling and say that I wont be able to make it.
 
Should returning players (Players that played within the first month of release) get an instant 50 character boost, or a major xp boost (1,200% XP boost) permanently to 50 if they sub? I think it's better that way. And from personal experience, I know that I'm not the only one who thinks the grind is a pain. 
 
Thank you.
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I've always found a certain elegance to EVE's skill system.  It completely eliminates the temptation to frantically rush to the level cap while simultaneously allowing you to immediately focus on the skills you want.
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You could argue that an MMORPG (or RPG in general) doesn't need levels to begin with, and all character progression is done through drops.
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What you are ignoring is that the "boring missing grinding" is the heart of all RPGs. That's what the genre is all about. Boring mission grinding. If you have a problem with that, why on earth are you playing a RPG in the first place?
 
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This is so far off base. So you're telling me that Final Fantasy 6 is all about 'boring mission grinding'? No. There was a time when RPGs were, as John stated, primarily about storytelling and interesting gameplay design (Espers, Materia, etc).
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You've never killed Emerald and Ruby weapon have you?  The main stories in those games lasted maybe 50 hours... but there were another 50 specifically spent grinding levels, maxing Materia, hunting ultimate weapons and armor, levelling up alternate jobs, and so forth... none of which were part of the story.
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And you would describe these processes as both:
 
A. a defining aspect of those RPGs and a primary sell-point
 
B. comparable to boring mission grinding
 
 
Sorry but I don't know a single person who bought RPGs for the 'extras', and I never heard anyone complaining about quest grinds.
Just because RPGs had extras to chase when the story was done doesn't mean they were boring grindy mission games at heart.
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Character progression is a core feature of RPG's.  It can be vertical (levelling) or horizontal (gear).  What made single player RPG's popular was a balance between good storytelling and engaging gameplay.  The levelling was just the progression mechanism.
 
Actually I think a raid-focused game could be quite successful.  I think it doesn't get done because publishers are really conservative about new ideas and then there's the speed at which content can be developed.
 
Actually I'd be in favor of gating content via solo challenge instances assuming that developers can make them representative of the group experience.  Tanks would have to manage a boss and some adds while an NPC healer and some dps beat things down.  The healing by itself would not be sufficient and the dps not fast enough so the tank would be required to manage their cooldowns.  The DPS challenge would be a dps check along with avoiding telegraphs and positioning for heals.  Healers would be stressed on resources, cleanses and triage.
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What are you talking about? I think you, like Vic, have completely lost context here.
 
 
1. Morgana claims boring grindy missions are the heart of RPG games and thus are a part of Wildstar we should absolutely accept
 
2. I tell her this is a far-fetched claim and describe RPGs that have nothing to do with boring mission grind as their 'heart'
 
3. Your response... is what? What are you even talking about with this latest post?
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Then only do the World Story missions, or the Zone Story missions.  You don't have to do every Task you come across.  There are stories here too.
 
Also, Skyrim (any Elder Scrolls game really).
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You take a lot of this very personally.  I don't mean it that way.  I highlighted the portion in red in your post that your confusion is coming from with regards to my intentions.  I know leveling is a piece of the game that can be tossed aside, not just in Wildstar, but in all games.  As a long term gamer, you would absolutely know that.  The last ten years in MMORPG games has been vastly different from the decade previous.  While there have been a lot of notable improvements, I wholeheartedly believe that the mitigation of the leveling process, in an effort to get people to "endgame", has hurt the genre as a whole.  A lot of Wildstar's problems directly relate to the way MMORPGs have treated progression and the division of the "endgame" from the "leveling" portion.
 
I mean, think about it.  Some people were 50 within a few days of launch, but no one has yet beaten Avatus.  What about being level 50 meant being at the end of the game?  It's not; which is a shame, because there are a lot more leveling and story zones than raids.  I think games like Wildstar lost a lot of potential when leveling up became this hurdle on the way to the important part of the game some ten years back.  It shouldn't be, but that's how games are developed these days.  There's no emphasis on travel, no emphasis on the leveling process, a lot of people feel like going 1-50 is a complete timesink.  If it is, that's a little weird to me because there might be a content difference at the endgame, but the basic concept of "grind until you have the necessary stats to move on" isn't any different.  1-50 and 50-DS are completely the same except that 50-DS is more instance-heavy and contains raids.  That's not really a conceptual difference, it's a design difference in the content.  There's nothing to stop them from introducing a 20 man raid at level 25 or having a solo questing path that can give you DS-level gear after 50.  These two things are absolutely not different.
 
That's where I'm coming from with the RPG angle, and more to the point, questioning if the leveling process really is, or should be, something to be casually tossed away as lacking worth.  Whether you want the free 50s or not is pretty inconsequential to that point (I'm pretty sure everyone in this thread doesn't agree with giving everyone a boost to 50 for dropping out of the game, and my reason for it has very little to do with leveling).  However, it's in the thread, and subject to debate.  If the leveling process is simply a throwaway hurdle, and it's getting to be that way these days, I feel like that's a major design flaw in the modern MMORPG.  It especially hurt Wildstar when people got through the leveling at a breakneck pace and slammed into attunement with absolutely no idea how to run an adventure or dungeon, much less how to be patient with content.
 
That's why I think it would have been better to make the content even more dense, to essentially make people take a MUCH longer time to level, and then make the endgame stuff just that, things to do at max level that aren't really progression oriented, but completion oriented.  I'm not a big fan of creating an artificial fence and saying that leveling is on one side, endgame is on the other, but in the end you're still doing the same thing.  What it's really created was an unnecessary division of content.
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Heh.
 
 
Is there not a gearscore check?  That always boggled my mind about TOR... No matter how skilled a person is, there are some fights you just won't get through without an appropriate amount of gear.
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They're assuming that you are being subjective when calling them "boring mission grinds", and you are talking about any linear solo content.  Not everyone thinks the missions in Wildstar are boring, so they're just assuming you're delving into hyperbole.
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