120919-do-you-think-drop-4-will-bring-back-dungeonpvp-pops

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I am a huge supporter of this game since launch, and I still love it but I have to admit i've taken a break from it (kept my sub active though to support the game and i still randomly jump in) but the reason I've stopped playing so much is that I need variety, and I hope Drop 4 brings that back!
 
Variety as in i need diversity. I like to quest, then pop into a dungeon and run around exploring and pop in and out of pvp etc. But as the game stands now I am primarily stuck to questing unless I que as a tank, where I get pretty much insta que's but i'm not really a huge fan of tanking.
 
So with the new loot incentives for queing for dungeons coming (from what I understand unless i'm wrong?) i'm REALLY hoping this brings the dungeon system back to life.
 
I can't speak for if they have any caviates for pvp, but i don't recall any? But my toons aren't max level because I really need that variety.
 
What do you guys think? Will it re vitalize these area's of the game and breath life back into it? Thoughts?
 
 	
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I hope it does.
Giving daily dungeon quests is something that should be a good incentive for players.
It worked awesome in Final Fantasy XIV, I don't see any reason why it would not work in WildStar.
A daily quest for a random veteran dungeon/shiphand that grants you EG/Glory/Tokens is a nice way to farm the content.	
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Well, i'm presuming (depending on level) it will give you a reward such as gear or the relevant points that your level collects (hope that makes sense)
 
I don't like comparing to WoW, but most folk have played it so it's easier to explain - It sounds a bit like it is going to give you either:
 
a) A random dungeon/pvp/adventure you need to pug to get a box of Shinys 
b ) Any dungeon/pvp/adventure to pug to get a box of Shinys
c) Any dungeon/pvp/adventure to pug will give you "insert token type here" 
 
If the rewards are worth it, i.e. chance to get a decent epic, then I can see people doing it.
 
WoW gave you additional reward and achievements for pugging. Seemed to work better as I remember the days before they put it in. Was a nightmare to get a grp before.
 
Not very good at explaining things, sorry :(	
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It would be nice!
 
Also I will agree on the variety.. having PvP queues popping frequently again while leveling would be just.. amazing.	
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As far as PvP pops go, there's just been a new patch today :
 
 
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PVP
Practice Arena and Practice Battlegrounds Queue System
We have increased the rate of Gear Score queue band growth, and also increased the maximum Gear Score Band from 37 to 1000.
These changes were made to increase overall queue speed and allow all players to eventually get matched.
 
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They may.  Hopefully, it will revitalize the PVP queues with the alterations being made.  In PVE, that's not such a sure thing.  One of the reasons dungeon queues don't pop are players.... players like me.
 
Yep, I blame me for long queue times because I do not PUG adventures or dungeons, and haven't for months.  I am part of the reason you can't get a queue to pop.  I like running with my own guildmates because they're my friends.  We all know what we expect.  We all value fun over getting a gold medal every single time.  We will run normal dungeons for the giggles and it's always the most beneficial for the guild to be practicing with and improving with the people you will be running with most often, your guildmates.  Once the guild is exhausted, I go to my rolodex on my friends' list.  I see if anyone there fills a role and feels like going.  Once that is exhausted, I go to Blacklight, which contains member of other guilds which are also full of friends of mine, most notably the Black Dagger Society.  Then, and only after all of those options are completely checked through, will we bite the bullet and queue up.  Some of my guildies won't even run if we have to randomly PUG a member.
 
Reasons for this are many, but mostly in that you know what you're getting from your guildmates.  The PUG has a chance to send us a complete prick.  It might not be a 100% chance, it might not even be a 10% chance.  But since I don't generally allow any of those in my guild, I know there's a zero percent chance of getting one if I pre-make a group within my guild.  These days, with the guild doing so well, it's rare I can't put together a full five man group in the <Blazing Saddles> when I'm online.  And so, in the end, I have not added my name to the queues.  Therefore, I am part of the problem.
 
I'm not sure if there's a solution to that for people who rely on the queue to do content.  Generally, they're in a DPS spec, you don't often get people that can tank or heal PUGging while they quest in-spec and gear.  Therefore, it doesn't pop often.  Maybe a possible solution is to have a tab that shows how many DPS, healers, and tanks are in the queue so people can visibly see that they can get a group if they queue as a tank.  I'm not sure.  I'm not sure anything would get me into a PUG when I simply have better options available to me.
 
Running with your friends is just more fun, so if you need someone to blame, people like me are to blame for the woes of the dungeon queue.	
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If they implement incentives to queue for dungeons and PvP other than fun and occasional gear and such (Like Glory, coming in Drop 4) there will DEFINITELY be more people queuing up. People never do stuff unless there is a reward for doing so. Fun is not enough for most gamers, sadly. They don't believe in fun.
 
I just hope that the PvP Dailies will be Rated only. Pleeeeeaaaaasssseeeee. People need to queue for rated.	
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PvE instance queues need two things to come back to life:  Superior rewards to whatever other content they have available and a reasonable expectation that the content will be completable by a random group.
 
As many people have pointed out, nothing beats questing for farming xp and gold.  Outside of content tourism or renown farming, Adventures aren't worth running (fails the first test).  Dungeons have better yields, but require raid discipline (fails the second test).  In a levelling context if the dailies boost the yield from adventures enough to make them worth doing, then I can see that queue picking up.  Outside of a static group I doubt the dungeon queue will improve much (#hardcore).  In an end-game context I can see the Vet Adventure queue getting a good shot in the arm and perhaps the Vet Dungeon queue will see some life as well.
 
Between the new incentives and planned adjustments, I think end-game PvP will improve at least at a casual level.  If it's handled right, that should feed the rated scene.  Lowbie PvP is going to be entirely dependent on attracting new players or somehow convince a large segment of the existing population to start PvP alts.	
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Dungeons? Maybe...I can see that improving overall with the daily bags for queueing. When I looked it was for "random/first available" so it will help encourage people to get out the comfort zone of STL/KV all the time.
 
Itemization needs some work though which I believe they've gotten to some, but not all of the pieces. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Overall the dailies I think will be helpful to PvE queues...
 
PvP queues will hopefully see some increase with todays change mixed with returning players and other additions.
 
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If they implement incentives to queue for dungeons and PvP other than fun and occasional gear and such (Like Glory, coming in Drop 4) there will DEFINITELY be more people queuing up. People never do stuff unless there is a reward for doing so. Fun is not enough for most gamers, sadly. They don't believe in fun.
 
I just hope that the PvP Dailies will be Rated only. Pleeeeeaaaaasssseeeee. People need to queue for rated.
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I'm skeptical, but would love to be proven wrong.
 
I enjoy pugging, wipes and all, so I'd love to see more people get into it.
 
The only dungeon I don't enjoy pugging is SSM, and that's really just because without a group that really knows it well, it just takes too long.
 
If I could get insta-pops on my tank, I'd queue up more with my tank just to pug dungeons. However, right now I have to actually do quests or something DPS related while waiting for queues, and it's just not that much fun. I end up just playing my slinger waiting for queues to pop, which invariably means STL :)	
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I'm skeptical, but would love to be proven wrong.
 
I enjoy pugging, wipes and all, so I'd love to see more people get into it.
 
The only dungeon I don't enjoy pugging is SSM, and that's really just because without a group that really knows it well, it just takes too long.
 
If I could get insta-pops on my tank, I'd queue up more with my tank just to pug dungeons. However, right now I have to actually do quests or something DPS related while waiting for queues, and it's just not that much fun. I end up just playing my slinger waiting for queues to pop, which invariably means STL :)
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Play with a pocket healer?  Someone who queues alongside you for healing?  I'm guessing you won't wait at all if you queue both support roles; there are DPS all over the place and you'll have both of the skill positions covered.
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Possibly. My wife, who should return to playing soon, is exactly that. However, I remember one lazy Sunday afternoon queued for an hour with tank, healer, and 2 dps. I guess that was for WotW and not a dungeon, but I have been (negativly) impressed by how long the queues have gotten. It's the one thing that's gotten me down about this game.
 
The dungeons are so fun, but queues don't pop that quickly- and if they do it's 9/10 going to be STL. Which is cool because I *still* find it fun after all this time, but SC is a really great instance I don't get to run too frequently.
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Between the new incentives and planned adjustments, I think end-game PvP will improve at least at a casual level. If it's handled right, that should feed the rated scene. Lowbie PvP is going to be entirely dependent on attracting new players or somehow convince a large segment of the existing population to start PvP alts.
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I believe this game still can come back, but a lot of it depends on word of mouth. I would wait till the drop actually came out though.
 
In any case there are some things I'd love to see. Fun battlegrounds based on Parasite (Sci-fi version of mafia but way more fun imo) and Dota would be amazing. 
 
Pve-wise, recent changes seem to be a good step in the right direction and will hopefully attract people back, including myself. I'm leveling up an engineer in preparation for Drop 4!
 
Wildstar just had a rough start at being awesome. =p	
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			Dungeons probably.Though I don't have much faith that PvP will be able to comeback. It's been falling since launch and I think there's no way to bring it back up.But on a more optimistic note, PvP can't fall any further.	
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dungeons: definitely will improve. no doubt.
 
pvp: no.
-why? because unless there are a lot more players so that matches are more fair (matching noobs with noobs and top dogs with top dogs) the gear discrepancy makes it horrible for newcomers. you arrive there with like a foam sword and get destroyed by a fully geared and amped pvper that you have no chance to even scratch.
-considering the population issue, my opinion is that they need to standardize gear in pvp. unlock a "must use" gear set for everybody and let them rune it freely like they want (maybe 5 omni slots per gear piece) and unlock all amps and ability points (similar to what gw2 does).
otherwise, it is very discouraging and frustrating for newcomers to have to play dozens of hours to start to have a fighting chance.
add to that the fact that you need to balance "pvp gear" and "pve gear" and that it genuinely screw up your open world pvp (who the hell wants to put pvp gear while in the open world and questing?) and that it is so much more difficult for the dev to balance out raid gear vs pvp gear (cause of different stats).
pvp gear needs to becomes standardized for everybody. let the player have fun tweaking their build and honing their skills and teamplay. much healthier and much more inclusive of new players.	
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dungeons: definitely will improve. no doubt.
 
pvp: no.
-why? because unless there are a lot more players so that matches are more fair (matching noobs with noobs and top dogs with top dogs) the gear discrepancy makes it horrible for newcomers. you arrive there with like a foam sword and get destroyed by a fully geared and amped pvper that you have no chance to even scratch.
-considering the population issue, my opinion is that they need to standardize gear in pvp. unlock a "must use" gear set for everybody and let them rune it freely like they want (maybe 5 omni slots per gear piece) and unlock all amps and ability points (similar to what gw2 does).
otherwise, it is very discouraging and frustrating for newcomers to have to play dozens of hours to start to have a fighting chance.
add to that the fact that you need to balance "pvp gear" and "pve gear" and that it genuinely screw up your open world pvp (who the hell wants to put pvp gear while in the open world and questing?) and that it is so much more difficult for the dev to balance out raid gear vs pvp gear (cause of different stats).
pvp gear needs to becomes standardized for everybody. let the player have fun tweaking their build and honing their skills and teamplay. much healthier and much more inclusive of new players.
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			There will be an increase in Dungeon activity to farm the new currency, which will likely translate into more queue pops, since the reward will be worth the risk of a PUG.  However, I am unsure of the extent of the improvement, especially with DPS queue times.  People are still better off finding a guild.	
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			There's also the concern about proper matching, putting a 4400AP DS geared DPS with a 2200SP trying to get gear tank is just going to turn both of them off to PUGing.	
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There's also the concern about proper matching, putting a 4400AP DS geared DPS with a 2200SP trying to get gear tank is just going to turn both of them off to PUGing.
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a 4400AP dps will have enough armor that no matter what he will faceroll most dungeons and could probably half tank them if the healer is also loaded with raid gear (but probably not necessary)
 
you cannot stop power creep!
#oldschool
#baddesign
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Until dungeon's are more "puggable" I don't see reason to expect their popularity to rise.
 
The people who will run them more if there are better rewards are same the people who have already been running them.
 
I haven't seen anything that makes me think they're going to be enticing new people into the dungeoning ecosystem.	
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			I hope it do's or they will have to make more changes to like 3 man dungeons, healer, tank, dps lol I really hope it does. Or they will have to add a one player mode for the dungeons. The way it is right now they should redo the videos for the game cause there no 40 man stuff soon and war plots are 30 man stuff like that. So some one new to the game gets lied to if they watch the old videos before they buy the game.	
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I hope it do's or they will have to make more changes to like 3 man dungeons, healer, tank, dps lol I really hope it does. Or they will have to add a one player mode for the dungeons. The way it is right now they should redo the videos for the game cause there no 40 man stuff soon and war plots are 30 man stuff like that. So some one new to the game gets lied to if they watch the old videos before they buy the game.
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3 man dungeons would make DPS queues super crazy horrible. I wish MMO's would look at moving to 6-8 man dungeons while still only requiring a single tank and a single healer. Most people want to DPS so why not design for that to help alleviate the bottlenecks?
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3 man dungeons would make DPS queues super crazy horrible. I wish MMO's would look at moving to 6-8 man dungeons while still only requiring a single tank and a single healer. Most people want to DPS so why not design for that to help alleviate the bottlenecks?
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I've long argued against the trinity.  I once designed what I thought was the perfect MMORPG, and it had no tanks or healers.  You had to balance your own damage versus mitigation, and you couldn't be healed in combat.  Then you just throw damage at people and let their bad balance get them killed or make them go conservative and their damage drops off.
 
I found out, being on these forums, that a lot of my ideas on the perfect MMORPG would be pretty unpopular, but everyone seems to hate the trinity system because of generally needing two dedicated players who can't just deal damage in the open world.  Most attempts to replace it have been pretty lame, though, most attempts making sure everyone can do everything and turning everyone into essentially the same character.  A few got relatively popular, though.
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I think a lot of the stress / inconvenience from preferring to play a pure support (tank / healer) character comes from the ease of switching between your main build / gear / role, and your dps / quest accomplishing build.
 
This game does not handle gear switching / organizing well (no armory / automated LAS swap), it requires you to spend EG on LAS slots, and limits you to very few.  
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I've always thought the idea of tanks and healers is a bit antiquated.  I mean, it's a very old RPG concept and it's certainly got its place in the game world.  I don't think Wildstar necessarily suffers unduly from having it from a gameplay standpoint.  Obviously, I still think Wildstar is the best MMORPG on the market and it's married to the trinity.  I still think it causes undue issues that other systems of handling damage mitigation and HP recovery in between damage output might be able to avoid.
 
Certainly not discounting anything you said, though.  Just the introduction of a system that swaps in my gear pieces just like my LAS when I change (and, as a personal note, fixing whatever bug keeps removing Power Link and Tremor from my builds when I switch sometimes) would probably do me just fine.  Any other improvements would just add sauce.
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			Ether way would work or both. They need to do one or the other, The thing is they need to make it where new people can get in to stuff and do it! That's why a lot left. Even if they make a super easy one player mode where u don't get that good of gear but can play and beat them would be cool. Some people don't have time to play mouths to get in to stuff. I play games  or should say mmo's for fun friends and store. Well the game is fun when u are in a good group but if not and u don't like solo play then u get mad. Cant q or have to wait all sucks and a lot stopped playing because after u been if so many guilds and they keep disbanding makes people feel like they wont make it. I'm so close I know I could finish mine but what about new people. That's what's going to keep the game going. So they need to make it feel like u can get to the raids with out feeling like u need to join a raid group be for u are there. Also I came back and it took me one day to beat drop 3 so that little bit is not going to cut it for solo players. I real hope they fix it some how tho I really love this game and some times it makes people more fet up with then happy witch is what they need to fix.	
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I like the idea of a trinity.  I've always enjoyed the ability to fit the needed role.  I prefer to play with my friends, and if my friend who is a tank has to go to bed, I like to be able to quickly and easily take his role and continue to enjoy content.
 
I didn't like GW2's lack of trinity.  I don't like the idea of all classes being able to perform all roles (in one spec).
 
I don't think Wildstar is the best MMO on the market, in fact I think from a systems standpoint, (LAS, EG, AMP, AP, Itemization, PvP, Alts, Dyes, Class Balance) it is perhaps one of the worst on the market.  I think a lot of people out there agree to that sentiment.  I think Wildstar does Combat very well, and it looks cool, and the housing is fun.  I think warplots are cool, but tanks in PvP are poorly designed. This game needs a lot of focused work.  I think it has potential, and that's why I continue to support it and the people designing it. 
 
I am curious to see what you would place in place of the trinity, would you elaborate?
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			If drop 4 is released with the current PTR version, PvP queues will explode. So many people left because of Medic dps in BGs and the War/healers in Arena if we even get a fraction of those players back, PvP will be whole again	
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Q: Do You Think Drop 4 Will Bring Back Dungeon/PVP Pops?
A: Only if Carbine delivers
 
We can't raise the appeal of dungeons and PvP by word of mouth, the game has to be good enough to have players flocking back.
 
I prefer dungeons with one or two friends, over massive pug groups.
I'm a INTJ personality, it's in my nature to avoid large groups of shee...people... yea.
So why would should I have to have my arm twisted to group with strangers. Even in PvP I will run with a faction zerg, but I'm lone-wolfing it without a group join.	
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I think a lot of the stress / inconvenience from preferring to play a pure support (tank / healer) character comes from the ease of switching between your main build / gear / role, and your dps / quest accomplishing build.
 
This game does not handle gear switching / organizing well (no armory / automated LAS swap), it requires you to spend EG on LAS slots, and limits you to very few.  
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I hope it does.
Giving daily dungeon quests is something that should be a good incentive for players.
It worked awesome in Final Fantasy XIV, I don't see any reason why it would not work in WildStar.
A daily quest for a random veteran dungeon/shiphand that grants you EG/Glory/Tokens is a nice way to farm the content.
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I'm a bit baffled by these topics. Are we playing the same game? I run 1-10 first available veteran dungeons per day switching between tank/healer/dps and while the dps queue's are ofc longest they're not usually unreasonable (unless you try to queue on 2 AM). Dungeons not puggable? Well, sure if no-one tries to lead /  explain the fights. If you just try it for a while you hardly ever have to disband, not even SSM runs.
 
I guess it's not for everyone if it takes more than a few goes to get everyone on board with the strategy. No instant satisfaction in (all) wildstar dungeon runs. But that's just what makes it more fun. The rewards are the best when you complete a "scrappy run".	
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I've long argued against the trinity.  I once designed what I thought was the perfect MMORPG, and it had no tanks or healers.  You had to balance your own damage versus mitigation, and you couldn't be healed in combat.  Then you just throw damage at people and let their bad balance get them killed or make them go conservative and their damage drops off.
 
I found out, being on these forums, that a lot of my ideas on the perfect MMORPG would be pretty unpopular, but everyone seems to hate the trinity system because of generally needing two dedicated players who can't just deal damage in the open world.  Most attempts to replace it have been pretty lame, though, most attempts making sure everyone can do everything and turning everyone into essentially the same character.  A few got relatively popular, though.
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to the OP,
 
Short answer is no.
 
As far as the rest of the world is considered. This game either never existed or died awhile ago. It has dropped off the radar and needs more than a drop to put it back on. Will the drop help? I sure hope so.	
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I've long argued against the trinity.  I once designed what I thought was the perfect MMORPG, and it had no tanks or healers.  You had to balance your own damage versus mitigation, and you couldn't be healed in combat.  Then you just throw damage at people and let their bad balance get them killed or make them go conservative and their damage drops off.
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			The thing is there are people trying to q at 2am or that the vet players don't take the lead. In beta that's all I did run dungeons so I have no problem running them but when the group stop have way thru the run case some one new don't know stuff dos not help. Also I m kind of new to the forums how do I post a quote I click it but never see one pop up on my replies.	
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			Marketing promotion and changes will bring people in / back.  IT's the game that makes them stay.  Maybe that's what Tony Rey has been up to in his duration of silence toward the community.	
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Marketing promotion and changes will bring people in / back.  IT's the game that makes them stay.  Maybe that's what Tony Rey has been up to in his duration of silence toward the community.
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Part of what's keeping Tony quiet are probably the structural changes with NCSoft taking control of some of the Marketing and PR that had previously been Carbine's responsibility
 
https://www.reddit.com/r/WildStar/comments/2o20v5/community_support_constructive_feedback_for/cmj8s9a
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