107871-new-day-new-post

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Simple question:
 
Edit: Do you think that WildStar will succeed on the path that it is on now? (In this instance not go F2P)
 
If yes, why? If no, why?	
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			What are we counting as a success? Without knowing that this question is moot.	
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Do you think that WildStar will succeed on the path that it is on now? 
 
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What are we counting as a success? Without knowing that this question is moot.
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Simple question:
 
Do you think that WildStar will stay out of the F2P realm on the path that it is on now?
 
If yes, why? If no, why?
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Success in this aspect is stay out of the F2P realm that NCSoft loves to throw games into.
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That, my friend, is unknowable and completely unrelated to how well Wildstar does.  NCSoft doesn't necessarily send games F2P because the game is failing, it's because the model simply makes more money than a subscription.  Wildstar could have five million subs and NCSoft could still send it F2P because they'll make more money.
 
At present, I don't know whose souls were sold to make the game subscription at launch, but NCSoft, now Wildstar or Carbine, is the reason I'm still paying month-to-month rather than going in on the full year.  You never know when the hammer will drop or if there's a deal in place to make sure it doesn't.
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			For as mad as I am about broken and rebroken quests, I hope they don't go F2P.  I prefer the sub model.  I don't like getting nickeled and dimed to death.	
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And we are considering free to play as failure......why?
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			And we are considering free to play as failure......why?	
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Its really hard to make a guess here because we don't know the numbers and sales projection. Carbine was aware that they're making a niche game and that means NCsoft knew too.
 
But on a personal level I think it is headed that way. Which I really don't want to because in mmos I prefer paying a monthly subscription to the f2p model.	
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It's still fun for me and my guild so if it goes F2P, it'll still be fun for me and my guild and I'll have $15 extra dollars in my pocket at the end of the month.
 
When it stops being fun I stop playing. Whether it's F2P or not has no bearing whatsoever on my enjoyment of the game.	
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Its really hard to make a guess here because we don't know the numbers and sales projection. Carbine was aware that they're making a niche game and that means NCsoft knew too.
 
But on a personal level I think it is headed that way. Which I really don't want to because in mmos I prefer paying a monthly subscription to the f2p model.
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Because it was not their original model and normally is used as a last ditch ever to save a game
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Because it was not their original model and normally is used as a last ditch ever to save a game
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Historically, from my understanding, NCSoft has only sent games F2P that aren't succeeding in the P2P market. Some come out already in this model and some go to it. So if we follow this logic then, for me at least, they have failed to maintain their initial set-up for the game and had to go to a back-up system to try and stay afloat. Correct me if I am wrong here though
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Free 2 Play can be implemented in many different ways.
Milking people for every nickle and dime is the wrong way, but there's awesome cash shops as well for example that seel exclusive commodities and not make it p2win
Calling adaptation of a model "failure" is nothing more then being short-sighted.
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			Yep, got the answers I expected out of this. I'm about done with these forums :D	
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Would you be able to provide an example of a game where they have a good cash shop system? I have only personally experienced the more nickle and diming variety and would be very interested in investigating what the alternatives are out there in the MMO world.
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@Vic,
 
To your last paragraph.  SWTOR went F2P and yet maintained subs.  But, they still attempt to nickel and dime.  At least to me.  They never had anything I wanted in the CS and even if they did it was way more than my sum total of "coins" and I "was" a beta tester/pre-order/deluxe addition purchase for the amount of coins I would acquire in my monthly stipend and to add insult to injury before I left they recanted the option to use coins for sub fees a la Eve.  So I guess SWTORs F2P method is what grinds my gears.  It was my first taste of F2P conversion.
 
All that said, I play NWN and STOL as F2P but, I don't take the games seriously and recognize that I will have to shell out for "zen" if I ever want to be competitive.  But, fortunately for my play style ( mainly a leveler/ altoholic / RPG type ) I don't have to in those games.  Now if they had a sub I would sub. 	
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If you enjoy the game and are playing, what does it matter? I'm not really seeing the point behind these types of threads. This topic has been done to death. Just more negativity. None of us know.
 
"Success" is subjective for players. None of us know whether the game is profitable enough to support asking for a subscription. Having to change it and go F2P does not mean the game has "failed", imo. Some have been more successful as F2P than they were as a sub. IMO, as long as an MMO has servers that are still open and running, it's a success until if/when those servers are closed.	
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subscripton games are made with greatness in mind... then they FAIL to deliver, players leave the game at a frightning rate... then they have to cut resources, relocate employers, cut the staff in in 2/3, and go F2P "to still be lucrative".
 
Less content, less balance, less everything... but hey, there are people still playing TERA, RIFT, SW and having fun, so maybe WS will have that niche population that will enjoy killing ohma for the next 3 years. I loged in TERA a few weeks ago and people still run argon queen just like 2 years ago.
 
But yeah, subscription game going FP2 means it failed to deliver and:
 
- most peeps will leave regardless;
- some people will stay cause they like the game enough to play for free;
- and some people will P2W cause they still like the game enough.	
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Yep, got the answers I expected out of this. I'm about done with these forums :D
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@Vic,
 
To your last paragraph.  SWTOR went F2P and yet maintained subs.  But, they still attempt to nickel and dime.  At least to me.  They never had anything I wanted in the CS and even if they did it was way more than my sum total of "coins" and I "was" a beta tester/pre-order/deluxe addition purchase for the amount of coins I would acquire in my monthly stipend and to add insult to injury before I left they recanted the option to use coins for sub fees a la Eve.  So I guess SWTORs F2P method is what grinds my gears.  It was my first taste of F2P conversion.
 
All that said, I play NWN and STOL as F2P but, I don't take the games seriously and recognize that I will have to shell out for "zen" if I ever want to be competitive.  But, fortunately for my play style ( mainly a leveler/ altoholic / RPG type ) I don't have to in those games.  Now if they had a sub I would sub. 
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@Vic,
 
Agreed.
 
And all of what you said is indicative of the times we live in.
 
I have been saying for years if you do the math the price of a sub in next to nothing.
 
The price of a sub, is a twelve pack of adult beverages or a pizza and less than going to the movies and you get more enjoyment per second spent than you do for those other examples.  The marginal utility of the price of the sub is well worth it ... "if you do the math".
 
I never could reason with the F2P crowd on the SWTOR forums.  Heck I can't reason with anyone that is dead set on F2P.  Well one day they will all wake up and realize that in a years time of subs vs. the amount they spend on F2P they actually paid more.	
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Simple question:
 
Edit: Do you think that WildStar will succeed on the path that it is on now? (In this instance not go F2P)
 
If yes, why? If no, why?
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subscripton games are made with greatness in mind... then they FAIL to deliver, players leave the game at a frightning rate... then they have to cut resources, relocate employers, cut the staff in in 2/3, and go F2P "to still be lucrative".
 
Less content, less balance, less everything... but hey, there are people still playing TERA, RIFT, SW and having fun, so maybe WS will have that niche population that will enjoy killing ohma for the next 3 years. I loged in TERA a few weeks ago and people still run argon queen just like 2 years ago.
 
But yeah, subscription game going FP2 means it failed to deliver and:
 
- most peeps will leave regardless;
- some people will stay cause they like the game enough to play for free;
- and some people will P2W cause they still like the game enough.
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@Vic,
 
Agreed.
 
And all of what you said is indicative of the times we live in.
 
I have been saying for years if you do the math the price of a sub in next to nothing.
 
The price of a sub, is a twelve pack of adult beverages or a pizza and less than going to the movies and you get more enjoyment per second spent than you do for those other examples.  The marginal utility of the price of the sub is well worth it ... "if you do the math".
 
I never could reason with the F2P crowd on the SWTOR forums.  Heck I can't reason with anyone that is dead set on F2P.  Well one day they will all wake up and realize that in a years time of subs vs. the amount they spend on F2P they actually paid more.
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			Just to put it out there, my opinion here, to me when a game has to change it's model to succeed is failure. Now if the new model is a success it doesn't mean that they aren't doing things right or making money, to me it means they had to realize they failed and things need changed. 	
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@Nottino,
 
I agree with you for the most part.  Perhaps another way of stating that is "Their original vision for the product changed".  That is what failed.
 
I know it's "spitting hairs" but, it seems to go along with what you just stated.
 
For me, I think subscription games fail not so much because of the developers or the producers but, the player base.  See mine and Vic's discussion above.	
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			And the definition of failure is not to hit an intended goal. Carbine has stated that they do not want to go F2P and has even hinted they'll try to shut the game down before they do. So yes F2P in this aspect is failure by pure definition 	
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@Nottino,
 
I think you might be being a tich obstinate now. ;)	
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Just to put it out there, my opinion here, to me when a game has to change it's model to succeed is failure. Now if the new model is a success it doesn't mean that they aren't doing things right or making money, to me it means they had to realize they failed and things need changed. 
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And the definition of failure is not to hit an intended goal. Carbine has stated that they do not want to go F2P and has even hinted they'll try to shut the game down before they do. So yes F2P in this aspect is failure by pure definition 
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@Nottino,
 
I think you might be being a tich obstinate now. ;)
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I hadn't heard or read that. Do you have a link handy to the source for that? I'm not doubting what you say at all, I'm just really interested in reading it.
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I hadn't heard or read that. Do you have a link handy to the source for that? I'm not doubting what you say at all, I'm just really interested in reading it.
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I can confirm they've said that.  Carbine would rather the game shuts down than goes F2P.
 
 
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			Remember NCSoft reads these forums too.  As did EA in the SWTOR forums.  So prolly want to stay away from dissing the publishers less your posts to undergo rendition. ;)	
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Can you imagine the uproar that would happen if they went f2p from all those people who have bought CREED?
 
Yeah, they don't want that.
 
Besides they are not strapped for cash in the slightest, and even if they were, all they would have to do is start selling the plushie line in the online store*
 
I so want me a skeech plush.
 
 
*Real plush, not in game.	
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Remember NCSoft reads these forums too.  As did EA in the SWTOR forums.  So prolly want to stay away from dissing the publishers less your posts to undergo rendition. ;)
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I don't doubt that, and I'd love to read that article. Do you recall where you saw it?
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@Nottino,
 
Hey brutha I hear ya.  I am still angry with them for CoH/V debacle.  I have much to say about them but I would have to use up a lot of cupcakes. ;)	
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NCSoft is by far one of the most successful businesses in the MMO industry and one of the worst parent companies to have. They are know for their absolutely horrible customer support, known for forcing companies to push out content that is not ready and forcing companies to release games early, known to step in and take over when it might not be warranted and have left a very bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths. Does this mean they aren't successful and don't make money? No. It means they don't care about the consumer and all they care about is seeing more $$. 
 
Unfortunately people continue to give them what they want and don't stand up for what they like. Most of their games are Niche and only hold 2-3% of the MMO market, but they have 5-6 games in that aspect thus they as a parent hold 10-18% of the market in MMOs nowadays. They will continue to do what they think is best in their interest and making money and will continue to see success from lack luster games because of it. 
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This sort of speculation is completely pointless.
 
Wildstar will go F2P eventually.  Then it will shutter.
 
We'll all be in another game, griping about what they're doing wrong that Carbine did right.. and we'll reminisce when someone posts the press release that Wildstar is sunsetting.	
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This sort of speculation is completely pointless.
 
Wildstar will go F2P eventually.  Then it will shutter.
 
We'll all be in another game, griping about what they're doing wrong that Carbine did right.. and we'll reminisce when someone posts the press release that Wildstar is sunsetting.
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@imukai,
 
Rather dark there Francis. :P
 
That can be said just about any game as a prediction ... well accept for WoW.  That Jugger just won't die ( not that I want it to ... I like me some WoW from time to time. ;) )	
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Nott, NCSoft doesn't give a damn what we want and like.  They also don't care what we stand up for.  All they care about is if they can replace every one of us that leaves with two of us that will spend more money in microstransactions.  If they can do that, you can shout for whatever you want, they'll wave goodbye when you leave and forget you.
 
Carbine are really our only advocates, here.
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@imukai,
 
Rather dark there Francis. :P
 
That can be said just about any game as a prediction ... well accept for WoW. That Jugger just won't die ( not that I want it to ... I like me some WoW from time to time. ;) )
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@Vic,
 
If by 2025 we don't have holodecks ( oh and I am still alive ) ... what the heck man. ;)	
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@ Vic,
 
Yeah .. Imma buck-eye .. I know what you mean .. just not in Columbus these days. ;)	
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I believe it was an interview with Carbine.  I can try to find it on lunch.  I recall them hearing them say it, though.  I think it was Gaffney.
 
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That's exactly the point I was trying to make
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@ Vic,
 
Yeah .. Imma buck-eye .. I know what you mean .. just not in Columbus these days. ;)
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Hard to say how much money Carbine and NCSoft made on CREDD, but a lot of people have CREDD out to next year.  If they go F2P, how many people will still buy and sell it?
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Man, us Ohio people....
 
Why are there so many of us on Wildstar's forums?
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How many people would they have wanting their heads as well. CREDD is the primary model it seems for their subs and if they go F2P what would it do to CREDD? They'd have to come out with a CREDD shop in game or something that players could spend CREDD on, but they couldn't guarantee success from that. Their current model "seems" to be working (since we haven't seen any true numbers yet) 
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How many people would they have wanting their heads as well. CREDD is the primary model it seems for their subs and if they go F2P what would it do to CREDD? They'd have to come out with a CREDD shop in game or something that players could spend CREDD on, but they couldn't guarantee success from that. Their current model "seems" to be working (since we haven't seen any true numbers yet) 
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@ Vic,
 
Yeah .. Imma buck-eye .. I know what you mean .. just not in Columbus these days. ;)
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@Naz,
 
You a wolverine? ;)	
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Carbine was aware that they're making a niche game and that means NCsoft knew too.
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Publishers don't drop a AAA budget on a niche title.  Regarding NCSoft knowing, color me extremely skeptical.
 
I believe that Carbine thought they had broad appeal, IIRC even Gaffney said they had something for everybody.  They goofed.  RNG, punishing, unrewarding, coordinate crafting, crap CS are a total turn off.  Heck, even raiders are saying they need less punishing content when they're not raiding.
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For as mad as I am about broken and rebroken quests, I hope they don't go F2P. I prefer the sub model. I don't like getting nickeled and dimed to death.
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			Some are forgetting about Credd or creed as most will call it lol.. this will be a huge factor in their success or not charts, sale of Credd	
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@Naz,
 
You a wolverine? ;)
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 I figured the 'We Are..' would give away my alma matter :P
 
Still stand by my post though... If W* shutters any time soon i'll count it a failure. As long as I can play the game it's a win for me.
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