109832-add-amp-ability-pt-unlocks-to-pve-challenge-bags

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Make it 1/2000 chance.
 
The global drop rate just isn't working for pve.
 
No incentive to log in to play pve to try and advance your character once you clear raid content (besides the scheduled raids).
 
This is an easy fix in terms of man hours.
 
Carbine, you must know by now, people aren't going to stick around for 44+ weeks just to max a character with the way things are going. . .
 
Make the game more fun and rewarding, and add some parity back to pvp vs pve, all without costing you much dev time...
 
This still won't solve the whole problem around this issue, but it's a start	
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the index challange bag can allready drop it and.... 1/2000 is really nothing.
 
even 1/20 wont be enough, more 1/10. 
 
 
we neeed a better and reliable drop source. Raids would be the best way. Even if every boss drops 1-2 AMP/Skill - points it would still take alot time for everyone to get it.
 
A decent raid with around 25ppl needs 425 of this items. ((7Skill  + 10Amp) * 25)
With ~ 12 drops every clean GA raid it will still take 36! WEEKS to get it for everyone.
I'm not getting the point why carbine doesnt include a serious solution here. 
 
I'm playin since realease nearly every day at least 2 hours and i have get none (yes ZERO) AMP drop yet.	
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the index challange bag can allready drop it and.... 1/2000 is really nothing.
 
even 1/20 wont be enough, more 1/10. 
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Other than rumors no one has ever shown any evidence of that being true.
Even the various sites that keep track of that sort of thing don't show it coming from those
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I got one from a bag randomly yesterday. 
 
An amp point which means that will save me 3 weeks of Elder gem point grind..
 
Elder gem cap needs to be increased HEAVILY. 
 
250 elder gem cap please. 	
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I got one from a bag randomly yesterday. 
 
An amp point which means that will save me 3 weeks of Elder gem point grind..
 
Elder gem cap needs to be increased HEAVILY. 
 
250 elder gem cap please. 
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pvp bags can also drop em, but low low chance.
i opened 200 bags 2 days ago and got nothing. :(	
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I got one from a bag randomly yesterday. 
 
An amp point which means that will save me 3 weeks of Elder gem point grind..
 
Elder gem cap needs to be increased HEAVILY. 
 
250 elder gem cap please. 
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For 'hardcore' players running content 6-12 hours a day for 5 days a week the drop rates on the amp/ ability points exceed the purchase rate using elder gems ( both have a drop rate ~0.02%, apparently it is higher when grouped and from certain mobs in dungeons). 
 
The items are intentionally rare; however drops are the primary method to obtain them. 
 
That said a lot of people misconstrue the fact that Elder gems are a 'back up for when your luck is poor' as 'you should be getting mountains of a rare item before you could pay for it with elder gems'. 
 
TLDR: Amps/ Ability points are rare; though apparently intentionally so. Seems to be workign as intended; though a Dev confirming that would be cool (hint hint devs). These points are not necessary for any content and are extras to fill out your toon over time and to act as a long term carrot for players (e.g. Limit point system from FFXI)
 
 
Best,
Naz	
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			OMG this Nazryn guy, your arguments against more amp/ability points are ridiculous, because pretty much everyone in the game, all my friends in my guild, that have hit lvl 50 in the first week, done grinds, farm dungeons all the time when not in raids, kill stuff all the time, have NEVER seen one drop, the drop rate is so astronomically low that if you even think when you are grinding mobs/doing your dailies that you may get one, you are probably on a drug that I'd like you to share with me.	
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			UnlesaS you're extremely wealthy in game or lucky with boom boxes this lengthy process of elder points is a ducking nightmare. Hit 50 inside two weeks been doing content every week to cap and guess what. Only 3 ability unlocks so far. Even opening 50 boom boxes. So *cupcake* me right. Because I pvp and do failed I don't make enough money to pay for the upgrades because the dickbqgs who have upwards of 1000 plat from exploits or raping the in game exchange bought them all for 20 plata pop. Its *cupcake*ing ridiculous. Put them in PV bags for *cupcake*sakes. End rant.	
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OMG this Nazryn guy, your arguments against more amp/ability points are ridiculous, because pretty much everyone in the game, all my friends in my guild, that have hit lvl 50 in the first week, done grinds, farm dungeons all the time when not in raids, kill stuff all the time, have NEVER seen one drop, the drop rate is so astronomically low that if you even think when you are grinding mobs/doing your dailies that you may get one, you are probably on a drug that I'd like you to share with me.
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Put them in PV bags for *cupcake*sakes. End rant.
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Drop rates end up being higher than purchase rate with elder gems for a serious player.
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This, this statement is 100% wrong.  They are no where near higher than elder gem purchase rate, they aren't even close.
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			No I meant PvP bags	
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No I meant PvP bags
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Reported drop rates are between ~ 0.1 & 0.02% generally. Using the lower end of those reported drop rates (0.02%) if you run Kel Voreth  and clear 40 of the trash mobs each run, for 6 runs a day, for 5 days a week. You will get 1 amp / ability point drop every 2 weeks ON AVERAGE (if the above content is ALL you do).
 
It takes 3 weeks worth of elder points to purchase one. 
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			It's not right, because from personal experience, you can do that, and you will not see one drop, ever.  I farm dungeons (all of them, but KV and STL when we want speed) for hours with my friends (grim grims!), almost every day, not one of us, have ever, seen one drop[EDIT] one meaning amp/ability points.	
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Is that calculation based on how often a group will see a drop, or how often a player will win a drop?  Because it doesn't seem right to me.
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It's not right, because from personal experience, you can do that, and you will not see one drop, ever.  I farm dungeons (all of them, but KV and STL when we want speed) for hours with my friends (grim grims!), almost every day, not one of us, have ever, seen one drop[EDIT] one meaning amp/ability points.
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			that's just it, it's not bad luck, that's what is NORMAL.  That is the experience for just about everyone in the game, be it from dungeons like me, or adventures (most players)  those numbers from jabbit are straight up wrong, and basing an argument on that is wrong, you can believe some website that is lacking data, or you can just ask around your server, and all the different groups that are out there farming items, amp/ability points aren't even what they are thinking about (they want purples) because no one even considers it as being a chance of dropping.	
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that's just it, it's not bad luck, that's what is NORMAL.  That is the experience for just about everyone in the game, be it from dungeons like me, or adventures (most players)  those numbers from jabbit are straight up wrong, and basing an argument on that is wrong, you can believe some website that is lacking data, or you can just ask around your server, and all the different groups that are out there farming items, amp/ability points aren't even what they are thinking about (they want purples) because no one even considers it as being a chance of dropping.
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What kind of bag did you get it from, Ellz?
 
tyvm for your response!
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For a .02% chance, that is 2/10,000 or 1 in 5000. For large values of N, the chance of something not happening approaches 36.78%:
 
(4999/5000)^5000 (assumimg your 5 days 1000 mobs each = 36.78% chance that after completing this 5 day cycle he will not recieve a drop. The chance of it happening are 1 - .3678 or 63.22%.
 
Now we assume each cycle is independent, then the successive cycle fail rate is:
 
 e^-M
 
For large numbers. The distribution around week 8 or or 9 gives us a .0001% chance of it not happening, which is the same significant figure as our original .02%
 
Where M is the week number. Assuming that you need 3 weeks to farm elder gems which constitute s a 100% drop, you still have a high failure rate when farming, relatively. In order to match the success rate of elder gems, you would have to farm 8 to 9 weeks to guarantee the same drop.
 
That is 40-45,000 mobs over a 2 month period. So no, it is not reasonable and it does not meet the "elder gems as fallback" idea.	
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https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/94813-so-what-happened-to-our-alternative-ways-to-get-abilityamp-points/?p=964941
 
been able to buy 3 upgrades before I quit playing compared to the 0 drops. no one in my guild even got a drop before we quit playing(20+) attuned players. yes it's broken
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For 'hardcore' players running content 6-12 hours a day for 5 days a week the drop rates on the amp/ ability points exceed the purchase rate using elder gems ( both have a drop rate ~0.02%, apparently it is higher when grouped and from certain mobs in dungeons). 
 
The items are intentionally rare; however drops are the primary method to obtain them. 
 
That said a lot of people misconstrue the fact that Elder gems are a 'back up for when your luck is poor' as 'you should be getting mountains of a rare item before you could pay for it with elder gems'. 
 
TLDR: Amps/ Ability points are rare; though apparently intentionally so. Seems to be workign as intended; though a Dev confirming that would be cool (hint hint devs). These points are not necessary for any content and are extras to fill out your toon over time and to act as a long term carrot for players (e.g. Limit point system from FFXI)
 
 
Best,
Naz
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Not familiar with conservative estimates? I low balled the numbers to illustrate the point that they drop more frequently than can be purchased with out silly accusations of exaggeration. But since you decide to ignore that; then lets do it.
 
If you wan't extra ability points; grind 1,000 Balehoof grazers a day for 5 days ( can kill a hundred in around 30-45 minutes; so about 5-7 hours of farming a day for 5 days. ([1,000 x 5 x 2] * [0.0002] = 2 Ability tier points per 2 weeks = 1 Ability tier point per week on average for a player willing to farm for them.
 
if you want extra amp points do the same thing for Zeta's. Frankly their drop rate is also likely closer to 0.02%... but Jabbithole is a little low on data, and so their drop rate is currently at 0.12%. We already know the drop rate if we use a realistic 0.02%; so lets try with the reported drop rate of 0.12%
 
Same as above; but change drop rate to 0.0012 rather than 0.0002.
 
And what do we get?
 
([1,000 x 5 x 2] * [0.0012] = 12 Ability tier points per 2 weeks = 6 Amp points per week on average for a player willing to farm for them. 
 
As I said, that particular drop rate is likely inflated.. but even with the conservative rates it is still POSSIBLE to aquire the drops much more rapidly than from EG purchases given only the Elder Point conversions per week. And the potential to aquire items from drops more frequently than you can buy them with gems is the only real pre-req for an item's primary obtaining method to be drops. 
 
 
 
 
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That said, all the arguments against the current Amp/ability point status quo seem to be 'I can't get these rare items fast; therefore BROKEN' which lets be honest; isn't actually an argument.
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			You know even if they did something like a weekly quest with 100% guarantee of getting a point as the rewardIt would still be over 3 months to complete, that's still a super long timeAnd this is character progression stuff too. Basically the most important thing in the game to actually complete and it's based off some sort of dumb luck lottery	
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You know even if they did something like a weekly quest with 100% guarantee of getting a point as the reward
It would still be over 3 months to complete, that's still a super long time
 
And this is character progression stuff too. Basically the most important thing in the game to actually complete and it's based off some sort of dumb luck lottery
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I assume that means put them in 'PvE' bags? If so they are already in PvE bags (sack of scavenged materials)
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For 'hardcore' players running content 6-12 hours a day for 5 days a week the drop rates on the amp/ ability points exceed the purchase rate using elder gems ( both have a drop rate ~0.02%, apparently it is higher when grouped and from certain mobs in dungeons). 
 
The items are intentionally rare; however drops are the primary method to obtain them. 
 
That said a lot of people misconstrue the fact that Elder gems are a 'back up for when your luck is poor' as 'you should be getting mountains of a rare item before you could pay for it with elder gems'. 
 
TLDR: Amps/ Ability points are rare; though apparently intentionally so. Seems to be workign as intended; though a Dev confirming that would be cool (hint hint devs). These points are not necessary for any content and are extras to fill out your toon over time and to act as a long term carrot for players (e.g. Limit point system from FFXI)
 
 
Best,
Naz
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Not familiar with conservative estimates? I low balled the numbers to illustrate the point that they drop more frequently than can be purchased with out silly accusations of exaggeration. But since you decide to ignore that; then lets do it.
 
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For a .02% chance, that is 2/10,000 or 1 in 5000. For large values of N, the chance of something not happening approaches 36.78%:
 
(4999/5000)^5000 (assumimg your 5 days 1000 mobs each = 36.78% chance that after completing this 5 day cycle he will not recieve a drop. The chance of it happening are 1 - .3678 or 63.22%.
 
Now we assume each cycle is independent, then the successive cycle fail rate is:
 
e^-M
 
For large numbers. The distribution around week 8 or or 9 gives us a .0001% chance of it not happening, which is the same significant figure as our original .02%
 
Where M is the week number. Assuming that you need 3 weeks to farm elder gems which constitute s a 100% drop, you still have a high failure rate when farming, relatively. In order to match the success rate of elder gems, you would have to farm 8 to 9 weeks to guarantee the same drop.
 
That is 40-45,000 mobs over a 2 month period. So no, it is not reasonable and it does not meet the "elder gems as fallback" idea.
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 Of course this is assuming that the drop rate Nazryn is using is correct.
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Good caveat.  His drop rates are not correct.  See above for more details.  Basically, it's the equivalent of asking a lottery winner: "How many tickets did you buy before you won?" And then using that number as the likelihood of winning the lottery.  The data doesn't include all the people who bought tickets but didn't win.
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