124303-want-more-players-lfrduty-finder

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== Content ==
			Why devs in this game are so against it? Other successful games have it, like WoW and FF14. It's a feature that brings non-raiding players back each week so that they can run it and collect the loot. It also helps players that don't raid see the actual raids. If this game wants to become successful it will need LFR/Duty Finder. You can attempt to dance around it all you want but that's the truth.	
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			Pretend I'm a doofus for a moment.... what exactly is an LFR/Duty Finder?	
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Looking For Raid.
 
It's basically a dungeon group finder for people who are "raid ready" but can't find a group.	
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Why devs in this game are so against it? Other successful games have it, like WoW and FF14. It's a feature that brings non-raiding players back each week so that they can run it and collect the loot. It also helps players that don't raid see the actual raids. If this game wants to become successful it will need LFR/Duty Finder. You can attempt to dance around it all you want but that's the truth.
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			*sends thanks TexArcana's way*	
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Because people hate the toned down crapfest that LFR produced in WoW. Get 19 of your closest strangers and faceroll a boss for shiny new purples.
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Because people hate the toned down crapfest that LFR produced in WoW. Get 19 of your closest strangers and faceroll a boss for shiny new purples.
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Because people hate the toned down crapfest that LFR produced in WoW. Get 19 of your closest strangers and faceroll a boss for shiny new purples.
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			I mean, I'm not a huge fan of LFR or group finder in general, BUT in this day and age of MMO's and how many people play them casually, you absolutely need this in your game, especially since it's a themepark mmo.	
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Such is the issue.  WoW sort of poisoned the discussion.
 
The idea of having a random queue for GA isn't exactly a big deal.  I question its effectiveness, but the idea is fine.
 
The idea of having a random queue for Playskool's My First GA tends to be the first thing that comes to mind when people say LFR, and is considerably more divisive.
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But there are many people who want this easy mode of raiding with no strings attached. That's the reason WoW and FF14 keep it because millions of people do them.
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I never used LFR because I don't really care for raiding. That said, my little guild in WoW uses it exclusively. We're just friends and family and none of us have the gumption or time to dedicate to full-time regular raiding.
 
But they get to see the content and do the dumbed-down fights and feel good about it - so no harm, no foul.	
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A big No Thank you from me.
 
Here's the thing, I don't care about people having a face roll raid to do. If that's what your heart desires go crazy. What I do NOT want to see is multiple difficulty levels of the same raid.
 
I don't want to see, easy data scape, normal data scape, and hard data scape. I just want data scape. If you want easier raid content with a queue component, make it a separate thing.	
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I don't want to see, easy data scape, normal data scape, and hard data scape. I just want data scape. If you want easier raid content with a queue component, make it a separate thing.
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@Nyoro (can't seem to quote on my phone)
 
Burn out is a big one. I, like many I'm sure, came from wow. I raided LFR, flex, normal, heroic (which later became LFR normal heroic mythic) of the same raid.
 
No, you didn't NEED to but you sure as hell felt compelled to. Gotta try and get the best upgrades before the next progression raid. Don't want to be the one holding the team back. If there are going to be more ways to gear up I need it to be different. I can't stand the idea of doing the same thing multiple times until I make it to the hardest difficulty where mechanics finally change instead of just doing more damage. It's not fun.
 
Edit to add: also, even if you weren't on a raiding team. If you wanted to progress your character best you could, for personal goals, it still meant running the same damn raid 3-4 times in a single week. I want different things to do to get gear, not "run GA on all 4 difficulties for loot"	
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A big No Thank you from me.
 
Here's the thing, I don't care about people having a face roll raid to do. If that's what your heart desires go crazy. What I do NOT want to see is multiple difficulty levels of the same raid.
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@TexArcana
 
I didn't say anyone was holding a gun to my head. However the gear progression path with multiple difficulty levels ends up making you do the same raid multiple times. Where you stop is a personal choice, but either way, I'd rather do 3 different raids then the same raid 3 times. Even if I don't do all versions of GA every week, I still end up just progressing through GA.	
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@Nyoro (can't seem to quote on my phone)
 
Burn out is a big one. I, like many I'm sure, came from wow. I raided LFR, flex, normal, heroic (which later became LFR normal heroic mythic) of the same raid.
 
No, you didn't NEED to but you sure as hell felt compelled to. Gotta try and get the best upgrades before the next progression raid. Don't want to be the one holding the team back. If there are going to be more ways to gear up I need it to be different. I can't stand the idea of doing the same thing multiple times until I make it to the hardest difficulty where mechanics finally change instead of just doing more damage. It's not fun.
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@TexArcana
 
I didn't say anyone was holding a gun to my head. However the gear progression path with multiple difficulty levels ends up making you do the same raid multiple times. Where you stop is a personal choice, but either way, I'd rather do 3 different raids then the same raid 3 times. Even if I don't do all versions of GA every week, I still end up just progressing through GA.
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I did LFR during MOP.
 
I logged in, did my LFR raids, realized I had "seen the content" and cancelled my account. Haven't been back since.
 
So I guess my mileage varied.
 
If I feel that I have an entitlement to "see Avatus", I'll go sit my butt down on Youtube and watch it. I don't feel that they should lower the bar for me.
 
 
If you're just talking about GA being an available clickable slot on the Dungeon Finder. That sounds fine. GA lite would be bunk.	
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Why devs in this game are so against it?
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     If Carbine added a LFR feature I think it must have a loot lock out involved.  One of the major issues with the WoW lfr was the impression that the regular raiders were pressured to do it to get the gear from LFR runs so that the regular guild run would be a little easier.  
 
     The issue is that people get burnt out on the same raid, done twice in one week over and over and over, looking for that last BIS drop.  I think, if they were to add LFR they need to make it so if you kill a boss a window pops up asking if you want to loot this boss.  If you say yes then it locks you from accepting loot from the same boss on the other difficulty levels during that week.
 
     LFR could be a nice thing for teaching the new players that apply to a guild the very basics of a fight and to see what sort of player they are before they get onto a raid team.
			
				
	Edited March 31, 2015 by Quuarm	
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As long as easy GA (or easy DS, whatever) offers gear, people will want to do it.
 
If I am in a raid team I probably have the option to skip it. But even so, if I want to progress my character gear, of course I'll do LFR. It increases my chances of getting into a pug team or raid team, showing I've put effort into my character. Plus, it's more gear for my gear progression.
 
This will always be the case. It's why I'd rather have 3 different raids than 3 difficulties of the same raid. I'd like variety in my gear progression path. Gives me more to look forward to than legendary gear.	
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This will always be the case. It's why I'd rather have 3 different raids than 3 difficulties of the same raid. I'd like variety in my gear progression path. Gives me more to look forward to than legendary gear.
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Ah, so your assumption is that with multiple difficulties, the expectation would be that each level was a requirement to see the next one.
 
I don't think it needs to work that way. The Attunement requirements to enter the raid don't have to be any different - it's just a matter of your skill level or time commitment. In other words, once you're Attuned, you should be able to pick which level you're going to run and if you can "skip" the lower level versions, then good on you. No harm, no foul if you're skilled enough to by-pass "Easy Mode" and go straight into Hardcore Mode.
 
But if you just want to learn the basics, or you can't dedicate the hours and hours to progress, or if you just aren't good enough to get out of the fire (like me!) then hey, Easy Mode is right there waiting on you.
 
Now, that isn't to say that the rewards from Easy Mode might make your life ... ahem ... easier in the Hardcore version, but it most certainly should not be a requirement for success.
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     LFR could be a nice thing for teaching the new players that apply to a guild the very basics of a fight and to see what sort of player they are before they get onto a raid team.
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That is the main benefit to LFR in my opinion. Some people like it because its content they can easily play with their friends, other people like it because it gives them a taste of what actual raiding is like. I think it's good because it introduces new players to the fundaments of raiding (working in teams, positioning, burn phases etc..) without overwhelming them with relentless diffuclty.
 
Most of the counter arguments for LFR usually stem from envy ie: 'i don't like other people having epic gear,' 'I don't think other people should be able to see the boss I worked hard to reach' as if the reward of regular raids is somehow diminished by the existence of story mode raids.
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Most of the counter arguments for LFR usually stem from envy ie: 'i don't like other people having epic gear,' 'I don't think other people should be able to see the boss I worked hard to reach' as if the reward of regular raids is somehow diminished by the existence of story mode raids.
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I'd be fine with LFR if it didn't give any gear, perhaps just dyes and decor items or something. If you want to get the Raid gear it should be from Raiding and doing all that is associated with that process. Hell just make it a true tour of the content, make the boss pop up and make funny faces at people if you want if it doesn't affect the rest of the game. No LFR I've seen in any game and then compared to the actual raiding was really representative of what that raiding tier was like so even doing it you don't "see" the content, you see a ghost of the content.
 
It does end up affecting people if it has upgrades above entry level raiding gear, because raid groups will require you to have completed it - regardless of if it actually prepares you for anything mechanics wise if there is any advantage in obtaining the gear rewarded. Then you have to do LFR version and gear out before you can do the regular version which does lead to burn out, all for one raid tier that can already be beaten with what is in the game currently.
 
If you want to raid, then practice in all the other avenues available and raid, no one forces anyone to do the 4hr per night 7 day a week raiding. Find a group of folks who only want to raid 1 night a week and do what you can if that's what you want. LFR will in fact, affect the other population and force another time sink on them if they do want to actually raid.
 
TLDR: Add it, provided it just gives out fluff items for rewards: Costumes, Dyes, Decor items. I'm fine with adding fun provided it has nothing that could make it forced on everyone.	
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I think most of it so far has called it a time sink that will eat the labor we need to get more content.
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Not my argument at all. It's just a lot of dev effort. GA seems perfectly tuned in terms effort/fun. The fights are amazing. But if the devs had created with multiple difficulties in mind, I don't think they'd have ended up with a fight like x-89, which is a terrific and fun encounter. And if they work on going back and creating a new version of GA, it just pushes out the other content we want.
 
That being said, they are creating multiple modes for the new boss-in-a-box boss coming out in drop 5.
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This community was screaming at Launch about "hardcore content only or go home" ... and seriously, we saw how that worked out, didn't we?
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To be honest the whole #hardcore was just a PR joke gone wrong and taken wrong. One to which many folk feel very vindictive about.
 
The game was never hardcore only. It was, though, released to soon as to where the endgame conteny was not fully polished (not even raids).
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This is how it should be.
20 man Datascape
20 man Genetic Archives
All future raids are 20 man
 
Add a new system Incursions or something like that, 10 man LFG instances that award Advanced Veteran dungeon gear (like the glory stuff, maybe a bit better) and put it at a similar difficulty. That way casuals can do LFG raids without watering down the real raids.	
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What?
 
The whole WS campaign 40 man HARDCORE raids like back in the old days!  I don't think it was a PR joke like you think it was, it was overestimating what people think thought wanted, and what they actually wanted when the game finally came out.
 
The MMO market shifted from the old hardcore days of EQ FFXI and WoW to what it is now, where people just want to jump in and play, and if you have the time the game does offer  something to feed those harder core players.
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But its not really a lot of Dev effort/time. For starters they don't have to create entirely new content, just tweak some numbers and adjust a few fights to make them more casual friendly.
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Is Carbine is such dire straights that they can't develop both?
 
I dunno. I see we obviously disagree about this, but I honestly don't see any downside (outside of the obvious "we'd rather have new content") to having more welcoming content at the Endgame.
 
Of course, all the new content in the world won't do a bit of good if no one is around to play it.
 
Meh. Not trying to be horsey.
 
This community was screaming at Launch about "hardcore content only or go home" ... and seriously, we saw how that worked out, didn't we?
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This is how it should be.
20 man Datascape
20 man Genetic Archives
All future raids are 20 man
 
Add a new system Incursions or something like that, 10 man LFG instances that award Advanced Veteran dungeon gear (like the glory stuff, maybe a bit better) and put it at a similar difficulty. That way casuals can do LFG raids without watering down the real raids.
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And honestly, GA isn't THAT hard. It just isn't easy enough to be puggable (unless people have done it before).
 
But I've seen players who have never raided before in any MMO come alive and figure things out. These were not players with a lot of natural ability. But with some coaching and being open to instruction, they've blossomed and have been very successful.
 
GA really, really doesn't need an easier mode. It is amazingly good fun right now, as it is. And I'd be willing to put together a three hour, one night a week, "let me see the content" group for newer players if there was demand for it.
 
Yes, you have to schedule, but it doesn't have to be THAT demanding.
 
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The whole WS campaign 40 man HARDCORE raids like back in the old days! I don't think it was a PR joke like you think it was, it was overestimating what people thought they wanted, and what they actually wanted when the game finally came out.
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There was a PR joke with the "hardcore" thing. And yes, the 40 man raid was intended to be hardcore, but that doesn't mean the whole game was intended to be. Clearly shiphands and adventures were not intended to be hardcore.
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Totally on board with this idea.
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I agree Vet Shiphands should have been in at launch. Actually, this may have been the biggest mistake made. But I do think they intended the game to be for many kinds of players.
 
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I actually made quite a lengthy post about it in like January, but it got almost no traffic, and the people that did see it were all like "NO LFR" Even though it is not LFR at all.
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I'd be fine with LFR if it didn't give any gear, perhaps just dyes and decor items or something. If you want to get the Raid gear it should be from Raiding and doing all that is associated with that process. Hell just make it a true tour of the content, make the boss pop up and make funny faces at people if you want if it doesn't affect the rest of the game. No LFR I've seen in any game and then compared to the actual raiding was really representative of what that raiding tier was like so even doing it you don't "see" the content, you see a ghost of the content.
 
It does end up affecting people if it has upgrades above entry level raiding gear, because raid groups will require you to have completed it - regardless of if it actually prepares you for anything mechanics wise if there is any advantage in obtaining the gear rewarded. Then you have to do LFR version and gear out before you can do the regular version which does lead to burn out, all for one raid tier that can already be beaten with what is in the game currently.
 
If you want to raid, then practice in all the other avenues available and raid, no one forces anyone to do the 4hr per night 7 day a week raiding. Find a group of folks who only want to raid 1 night a week and do what you can if that's what you want. LFR will in fact, affect the other population and force another time sink on them if they do want to actually raid.
 
TLDR: Add it, provided it just gives out fluff items for rewards: Costumes, Dyes, Decor items. I'm fine with adding fun provided it has nothing that could make it forced on everyone.
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Why devs in this game are so against it? Other successful games have it, like WoW and FF14.
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The reason why LFR is so successful in other games I've mentioned is because it does award gear. And in FF14 it awards pretty nice gear, as in it looks good and the stats are decent(but you can only win 1 piece a week for a new raid). And the result: people are running it and liking it. Basically, there are many people who want easier raid with nice gear. For some people this is their endgame. There are people who find running regular raids too hard or stressful or time consuming and LFR is totally their cup of tea. There had to be decent gear awards so that people have a reason to run it every week because people neeed gear. If it's gonna be some insignificant rewards like dyes, decors and so on then not that many are gonna run it and it's going to be a pain to wait in a queue for 20 random people to queue. Rewards have to be what most want and that is gear.
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As someone who might raid 3 times a month (been even less than that lately due to sickies camping in my house and refusing to leave), I can say that it's really not as #hardcore as people make it out to be, nor is it necessary to implement some dumb-down version of it so people can LFR it. On Entity Dominion, we have more than one PUG GA and even a PUG DS raid that run every week. You just need to do some legwork to find a guild that has more relaxed raid attendance rules (*cough* like OTG  *justsayin*) and even the most casual person can raid.
 
I would not be opposed so a sort of mini-raid, a 10 man NEW zone (please don't just copy/paste an existing one!) made for smaller groups and not-perfect set ups.
 
I think alot of the problem is that raids have LONG been painted as requiring dedicated, long hours like a part-time job. It hasn't been that way since the second generation of MMOs when raiding was made more accessible with both smaller force options and the LFR travesty. If you don't want to commit 3 nights a week to raiding, you don't have to. You just have to accept that you probably won't clear DS in a year. So many people want "to see" the end game today, without putting in the time it takes. That means if you raid once a week, it will probably take you three times as long as someone who raids 3 days a week. That's a LONG time, and most people just don't want to do it, but still want the rewards from it.	
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I played WoW and FF14. Neither of them had an LFR system.
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As someone who might raid 3 times a month (been even less than that lately due to sickies camping in my house and refusing to leave), I can say that it's really not as #hardcore as people make it out to be, nor is it necessary to implement some dumb-down version of it so people can LFR it. On Entity Dominion, we have more than one PUG GA and even a PUG DS raid that run every week. You just need to do some legwork to find a guild that has more relaxed raid attendance rules (*cough* like OTG  *justsayin*) and even the most casual person can raid.
 
I would not be opposed so a sort of mini-raid, a 10 man NEW zone (please don't just copy/paste an existing one!) made for smaller groups and not-perfect set ups.
 
I think alot of the problem is that raids have LONG been painted as requiring dedicated, long hours like a part-time job. It hasn't been that way since the second generation of MMOs when raiding was made more accessible with both smaller force options and the LFR travesty. If you don't want to commit 3 nights a week to raiding, you don't have to. You just have to accept that you probably won't clear DS in a year. So many people want "to see" the end game today, without putting in the time it takes. That means if you raid once a week, it will probably take you three times as long as someone who raids 3 days a week. That's a LONG time, and most people just don't want to do it, but still want the rewards from it.
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My point was more that what does anyone feel they need raid gear for if they aren't raiding. The obtainable gear not raiding is easily good enough to do any non-raid content. Beyond that if you don't want to raid you're just looking for costume gear to look cooler.
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May I infer from your comment here that you would fully support raid gear being unusable outside of raiding, since the only place you need it is in a raid?
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May I infer from your comment here that you would fully support raid gear being unusable outside of raiding, since the only place you need it is in a raid?
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What use for it is there outside of raiding. If you're raiding then what would you be doing with it that would impact anyone else period?
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It's incredibly useful for farming both open world resources or instances.  If a raider can clear five elite mobs in the time it takes a non-raider to finish off one normal mob there's a significant efficiency difference in the drops and resources over time.
 
The Rally system they're developing for PvP still leaves any specials and the extra rune slots so they'll still potentially have an edge.  Until that edge no longer exists then the only reasonable solution is to make the items inert outside of raid context.  Yes this will require people to lug around an extra set of gear.  A small price for being elite, no?
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Ah, so your assumption is that with multiple difficulties, the expectation would be that each level was a requirement to see the next one.
 
I don't think it needs to work that way. 
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It's incredibly useful for farming both open world resources or instances.  If a raider can clear five elite mobs in the time it takes a non-raider to finish off one normal mob there's a significant efficiency difference in the drops and resources over time.
 
The Rally system they're developing for PvP still leaves any specials and the extra rune slots so they'll still potentially have an edge.  Until that edge no longer exists then the only reasonable solution is to make the items inert outside of raid context.  Yes this will require people to lug around an extra set of gear.  A small price for being elite, no?
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Why not just rally them down to the open world, or just make sure there's an extra set of stat buffs that spikes up in a raid if they were going to do that?
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It doesn't need to work that way, in fact in WoW it no longer works that way. there is absolutely no need to progress through every difficulty level.
there is a lot of choice for guilds and individuals to do the content at there own skill level and time commitment.
 
but its WoW so its cool to hate on it regardless of the positives the system has
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What?
 
The whole WS campaign 40 man HARDCORE raids like back in the old days! I don't think it was a PR joke like you think it was, it was overestimating what people thought they wanted, and what they actually wanted when the game finally came out.
 
The MMO market shifted from the old hardcore days of EQ FFXI and WoW to what it is now, where people just want to jump in and play, and if you have the time the game does offer something to feed those harder core players.
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I played WoW and FF14. Neither of them had an LFR system.
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My point was more that what does anyone feel they need raid gear for if they aren't raiding. The obtainable gear not raiding is easily good enough to do any non-raid content. Beyond that if you don't want to raid you're just looking for costume gear to look cooler.
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but its WoW so its cool to hate on it regardless of the positives the system has
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Don't worry, most people did.
 
But I think the idea would be to take the things that work well about WoW and add them to the things that work well about WS and make this game the genuinely brilliant game it could be, rather than the largely unpopulated joke that it currently is.
 
The real heart and core of this game that is a strength is the fluidity of its combat system. That is the thing that people see as having such potential here.
 
The narrowly vertical progression of the endgame here is not a novelty with tons of potential, it's a system that other games tried and rejected for better approaches years ago.
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Don't worry, most people did.
 
But I think the idea would be to take the things that work well about WoW and add them to the things that work well about WS and make this game the genuinely brilliant game it could be, rather than the largely unpopulated joke that it currently is.
 
The real heart and core of this game that is a strength is the fluidity of its combat system. That is the thing that people see as having such potential here.
 
The narrowly vertical progression of the endgame here is not a novelty with tons of potential, it's a system that other games tried and rejected for better approaches years ago.
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Right, there were hardcore elements to the game, undeniably. However the game was not hardcore only.
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May I infer from your comment here that you would fully support raid gear being unusable outside of raiding, since the only place you need it is in a raid?
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Combat and housing aren't the only distinctives. Ship hands and dungeon/fight design are also amazing.
 
I really don't care what content they add outside of roads, but GA is a thing of beauty, and it's not inaccessible. The gear is a far secondary reward to the actual instance itself. Creating a LFR mode of this would be a travesty. It would cheapen the experience of every player who did it before/instead of the real thing.	
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Making raid gear not work outside of raids wouldn't bother me, but it's simply not going to happen. I doubt it would bring many people to the game and it's probably a lot of work. Plus the backlash would probably be not worth it.
 
Incentivizing people to not use it would probably work much better.	
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IMO of they wanna make an easy cheap LFR version of say GA they need an adventure intro of Caretaker telling you this is a practice and not the real thing and blablabla.
 
It would also need to give no more than dungeon gear, if not no gear at all and give shiphands bags only huehuehue.	
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IMO of they wanna make an easy cheap LFR version of say GA they need an adventure intro of Caretaker telling you this is a practice and not the real thing and blablabla.
 
It would also need to give no more than dungeon gear, if not no gear at all and give shiphands bags only huehuehue.
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"We've had people come from other games and ask why certain features aren't in this only to get shot down by hostile responses. The community that is left seems very resistant to change, especially if the ideas are from the 'dreaded WoW' (where in most cases they are proven to work and enjoyed by scores of folk)
 
I'd love this game to be like the other modern mmos but with its better combat and housing. I know this is a sentiment is echoed by a ton of other people that came here expecting the next big thing but realised that there is very little content for anyone outside of the #hardcore team. It's infuriating really and the worst part is that the development team have given us next to no idea where this game heading in the future because at the moment it looks like it will be stuck in the mmo stone-age for years to come."
 
Not sure why it jumbled the quote and my post, I probably jacked it up somehow. Sorry about that.
 
 
Why would you want any new game to be the same as every other game? Why not have diversity and understand that all games don't have to be identical with different skins? If there are things to like about Wildstar be on board with Wildstar if you like Wildstar, but want another game to play..play it too. 
 
I'm not saying no to any addition of a LFR even though I do believe and witnessed first hand the trashing of the community and game that it added to WoW that you guys are using as a shining example. It actually has gone down in population and the quality of the community as a whole. Just that it shouldn't affect the Raid content in the least. That content is there for the population that likes to raid and a decision to add things that take away their enjoyment shouldn't be made pure and simple.  LFR would have to be implemented much differently than other games to not just be a trash addition to the game that damages the community on top of the game play. 
 
Come up with some original ideas that actually revolutionize the MMO scene rather than rehash junk options from games that are shadows of their former selves or at very least don't impact the game in a way that punishes other people's enjoyment of the game as it is. 
 
As far as Raid gear making anything so simple it's a huge advantage the only place I've seen at all it is in PvP and even then there's some indication that the perception isn't the true reality of that situation. Besides, if Raiding really is so tough and difficult why shouldn't that effort be rewarded especially since it would appear that is such a small percentage of the population that obtains that advantage. 
 
If I work 80 hours a week at my job, I get paid more than the guy next to me that goes home at 40 hours. Should the company I work for go ahead and pay him the same as me so that he doesn't go home and cry into his pillow at night? How about the high school dorp out that didn't even bother getting his G.E.D. should they match his pay to mine with a College Education because it's unfair that I put in more effort and time to get where I am?  Effort  and Commitment should always = Reward  in life or in a game. 
 
There really are 3 things that would guarantee that I quit this game most likely immediately:
 
1) NC Soft pulls the plug
2) It goes F2P
3) The community becomes complete trash
 
In the end, I'm not looking for Wildstar to become a juggernaut the size of WoW, I want a game that is fun, challenging, and makes enough cash from subs to not have to listen to speculation about it ending. The number of subs it should take to accomplish that is far less than it takes to make the same cash F2P and it's not nearly the number than WoW had at it's peak. I want to say I heard a number like 150,000 subs consistently is enough to operate just fine, but I could well have that number wrong as it was an interview I saw earlier in the closed beta.
 
As far as change, provided it isn't the three things above then they can change a ton of things and I'll play until the fun is gone, which it's far from at this point.  For the record, I'm also not opposed to them developing some smaller group stuff or even more solo content, but rewards should be handed out accordingly. 
 
Outside of that we'll just have to agree to disagree on how things should be rewarded. For now at least it seems that there is enough of what both of us want to keep us playing.   
 
 
 
 
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Combat and housing aren't the only distinctives. Ship hands and dungeon/fight design are also amazing.
 
I really don't care what content they add outside of roads, but GA is a thing of beauty, and it's not inaccessible. The gear is a far secondary reward to the actual instance itself. Creating a LFR mode of this would be a travesty. It would cheapen the experience of every player who did it before/instead of the real thing.
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I'd be down for some LFR in WS.  I've done LFR in WoW more than my fair share of times and it was actually pretty fun, and catered to my "I'm-just-too-blasted-busy-to-gear-up-for-actual-raids-so-I'm-not-an-actual-raider-per se-but-still-like-the-big-group-stuff" gaming habits.
 
I'd also be lying if I didn't say that LFR has kept me in WoW more than I planned just because I enjoyed being able to shake up my experience with it.  There's some merit to having access to the easy/convenient content for the masses.  I'm also still of the mindset (since we're on a similar topic) that the medal system could easily be converted into a difficulty selection system - with appropriate loot rewards, of course - to make people of different playstyles and skill levels feel more welcome to participate in the content and also make people feel as though they are getting more bang for their buck.
 
For those out there who disagree, let me respond in advance with a couple of questions: 
-What do people normally seem to do when they feel as though the game they are playing does not provide them with the type of content that they enjoy? 
 
-Do they stay and force themselves to fit the mold that is provided by the developers? 
 
-Or do they simply hit that "unsubscribe" button and find something else to play? (because, after all, today's MMO scene is not even close to lacking options for willing customers)	
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We've had people come from other games and ask why certain features aren't in this only to get shot down by hostile responses. The community that is left seems very resistant to change, especially if the ideas are from the 'dreaded WoW' (where in most cases they are proven to work and enjoyed by scores of folk)
 
I'd love this game to be like the other modern mmos but with its better combat and housing. I know this is a sentiment is echoed by a ton of other people that came here expecting the next big thing but realised that there is very little content for anyone outside of the #hardcore team. It's infuriating really and the worst part is that the development team have given us next to no idea where this game heading in the future because at the moment it looks like it will be stuck in the mmo stone-age for years to come.
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Well since I've seen and heard a lot of people calling Warlords a mediocre at best expansion, and seeing that it still has a high number of subs because "they're already THERE and they want to see where it goes", it appears that it's the bolded red. Because too many MMO fans are often resistant to change.
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I've enjoyed the Shiphands as an unusual and distinctive feature of this game that is a lot of fun. I'd similarly be positive about the adventures if they were even remotely rewarding. But they're not and the endgame progression makes them pretty completely skippable at this point. I do feel sorry for whoever was in charge of developing them. They don't get nearly as much use as they clearly ought to, because the progression made them basically unrewarding for anything except attunement purposes. At the moment they win the award of Most Unnecessarily Gimped PvE Content In The Game, in spite of how fun they are.
 
The dungeons don't really stand out to me at all, honestly. Every game has dungeons and most of them have mechanics. I thought TSW's dungeons were much more interesting and compelling than the WS dungeons have been, even with the far worse combat system of TSW. 
 
As for raids, I'll have to take your word for it that they're super awesome. Your concern for not letting a LFR version of the raid cheapen "the experience of every player who did it before/instead of the real thing" is really touching, but it's also coming from someone who's already well into GA and therefore past the point where a LFR would be useful. 
 
I'm guessing that most people playing the game aren't in that position, and I'm OK with players having a cheapened experience instead of no experience at all.
 
And whether you like it or not, that's what most of the playerbase will take as the alternative. They're never going to be in a raiding guild and your offer to run PUG raids so that a LFR isn't necessary is sweet--but unless you plan to be awake 24/7 and run them as a full-time job, you simply can't substitute for what a LFR can do.
 
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Not a bad point, I'm sure that there is a pretty substantial number of people who continue to play because it is like a 2nd home to them.  I wouldn't however go so far as to say that they are "resistant to change".  WoW has been through a pretty significant number of very substantial changes like adding LFR, Pet-Battles, (Now) Garrisons, Flex Raids, Heroic->Mythic Raids, Item Squish, etc.  Having been there since it released in 2004, I can tell you that it's hard to recognize WoW as still being the same game - Even the graphics have changed!  
 
And I can certainly tell you that there have been a lot of complaints about the addition of a new feature each and every time: I hate pet battles/I love pet battles/I hate LFR/I love LFR, etc, etc.  The fluctuation in WoW's playerbase does reflect that to some degree.  (i.e. if you take everything that the hipsters on the internet say as gospel, then every WoW expansion sucked except TBC... er, I mean Wrath, er, I mean Vanilla, crap I really meant TBC...)
 
I'm pretty sure that WoW continues its status as an MMO juggernaut because it is by far the biggest variety pack of playable and cosmetic features available on the market today.  There's literally something for everyone there, at least for a while.  I think that's why people keep going back.  People may not like one or two features offered by the game, but inevitably there are about 4 other things that keep them logging in.
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By "change", I thought it was a bit obvious that I meant "changing games altogether". Not that the game itself hasn't changed. Which is why a lot of people stay, because there's a deep fear of feeling that they'll "lose" all that time they've invested in the game. Some people will feel like a part of them is gone if they don't play on the account that they're spend years on. Sort of like how there are people who think that "Disco will never die!" Nostalgia and a fear of "The Scary Unknown" trumps logic and common sense, far too often.
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That, I cannot disagree with, I've felt the same way on many occasions about several of the MMOs that I play regularly (including Wildstar).  Disco is dead, though, and good riddance.
 
I think, though, that it is ok for Carbine to pull a page right out of Blizzard's playbook by introducing as many features as possible in order to cater to the interests of a very diverse population of customers.  While there will always be some die-hard fans of [insert game here], I think if WS's combat system was combined with the types of features available in other MMOs along with what's already here, this game would probably pull more than just a few extra players to it - assuming Carbine starts advertising a bit more aggressively than they have been over the past several months.
 
All I'm really saying is this:  Perhaps people shouldn't slap down proposed additions to the game when those additions have clearly proven themselves to be popular in other games.  That, and it's addition - not a trade off :)
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1) You're missing the point of progression. Yes, each thing is only going to incrementally improve your character until you can move on to the next. Welcome to MMOs. The ones that got rid of this type of progression generally end up being trash as people want the carrot on a stick to chase. As do you apparently since you want free raid gear from trash LFRs. considerably better populated and financially viable than this one is.
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Why would you want any new game to be the same as every other game? Why not have diversity and understand that all games don't have to be identical with different skins? If there are things to like about Wildstar be on board with Wildstar if you like Wildstar, but want another game to play..play it too. 
 
WildStar isn't the same as every other game though, it's a new setting, new ideas for character classes (most of them) with an new combat system; these are examples of new things done right. The thing is, WildStar is in the mmo market and has the traditional things like dungeons, scenarios, raids, pvp etc.. but they're mostly half arsed versions. When it comes to mmo's, WoW does just about everything right, which is why all other mildly successful mmo's copy what WoW is doing but add their own spin. Currently this game isn't really copying a lot of the things that WoW does really well and is paying the price for it.
 
I'm not saying no to any addition of a LFR even though I do believe and witnessed first hand the trashing of the community and game that it added to WoW that you guys are using as a shining example. It actually has gone down in population and the quality of the community as a whole. Just that it shouldn't affect the Raid content in the least. That content is there for the population that likes to raid and a decision to add things that take away their enjoyment shouldn't be made pure and simple.  LFR would have to be implemented much differently than other games to not just be a trash addition to the game that damages the community on top of the game play. 
 
Trashing of the community is just an anecdotal and completely subjective response. The fact of the matter is that people play that content and enjoy it, it gives them a carrot on a stick which in turn leads them to subscribe and keep playing. This isn't really a thing for debate anymore, either CS add LFR or they lose out on that share of mmo customers. It's their choice. People that have played WoW and LFR raided for months aren't going to get to 50 in WildStar and stick around if a big thing they enjoy about WoW isn't present in this game.
 
Come up with some original ideas that actually revolutionize the MMO scene rather than rehash junk options from games that are shadows of their former selves or at very least don't impact the game in a way that punishes other people's enjoyment of the game as it is. 
 
CS aren't really capable of that imo, and they don't have the time nor money to be wasting on 'revolutionising' the genre while their game is dying at an incredible rate. They need to stick with what works and build on that while touting the things that they do better than all other mmos. (combat/housing)
 
As far as Raid gear making anything so simple it's a huge advantage the only place I've seen at all it is in PvP and even then there's some indication that the perception isn't the true reality of that situation. Besides, if Raiding really is so tough and difficult why shouldn't that effort be rewarded especially since it would appear that is such a small percentage of the population that obtains that advantage. 
 
Raid gear should never have any impact on instanced PvP, this is completely ridiculous.
 
If I work 80 hours a week at my job, I get paid more than the guy next to me that goes home at 40 hours. Should the company I work for go ahead and pay him the same as me so that he doesn't go home and cry into his pillow at night? How about the high school dorp out that didn't even bother getting his G.E.D. should they match his pay to mine with a College Education because it's unfair that I put in more effort and time to get where I am?  Effort  and Commitment should always = Reward  in life or in a game. 
 
We're not here to talk philosophy, we're discussing ideas to make this game less dead. LFR is a good idea for that.
 
There really are 3 things that would guarantee that I quit this game most likely immediately:
 
1) NC Soft pulls the plug
2) It goes F2P
3) The community becomes complete trash
 
In the end, I'm not looking for Wildstar to become a juggernaut the size of WoW, I want a game that is fun, challenging, and makes enough cash from subs to not have to listen to speculation about it ending. The number of subs it should take to accomplish that is far less than it takes to make the same cash F2P and it's not nearly the number than WoW had at it's peak. I want to say I heard a number like 150,000 subs consistently is enough to operate just fine, but I could well have that number wrong as it was an interview I saw earlier in the closed beta.
 
WS will never become even a fraction of the size of WoW, but if CS play their cards right it could become a profitable and well regarded mmo that will persist for years. At this point the game is doing so bad that it's in the same financial band as mmos that NCsoft have cut. 
 
As far as change, provided it isn't the three things above then they can change a ton of things and I'll play until the fun is gone, which it's far from at this point.  For the record, I'm also not opposed to them developing some smaller group stuff or even more solo content, but rewards should be handed out accordingly. 
 
Adding strictly solo content in mmo's is a waste of resources. Successful mmos play to the strength of the genre (getting people to play together, making socialising easier/better etc..)
 
Outside of that we'll just have to agree to disagree on how things should be rewarded. For now at least it seems that there is enough of what both of us want to keep us playing.   
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I don't remember swaths of people ever shooting down the idea of LFG, raid tier tokens, vanity pets, bracketed PvP, or other GOOD ideas from WoW.
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Despite it being a constant meme and self-victimization entry way from some posters, that hasn't been the case in general. The majority of ideas being proposed for implementation from other MMOs have been accepted. You just have a few dishonest posters who don't like when one or two things on their laundry list of ideas aren't instantly accepted, (like getting rid of the telegraph system), and then claim that "no one here likes change". And that "the community always tells them to get out", and other overblown nonsense.
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I'm curious:  For folks in favor of LFR, what are you looking for?
Very low barrier to entry (ie, forgiving difficulty, limited time investment, minimal organizational requirements) large-group content
What would you view as a reasonable "limited time investment"?
Which of those three is the largest turn-off to you? (difficulty, time, or organization)
Pass to see the lore and story and characters in the raid zones. Or, well, do you want to *specifically* see Genetic Archives and Datascape (and Initialization Core Y-83 soon!) or simply any [some cool zone] that scratches the itch of content at the suggested difficulty level?
Raid-quality loot	
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I'm curious:  For folks in favor of LFR, what are you looking for?
Very low barrier to entry (ie, forgiving difficulty, limited time investment, minimal organizational requirements) large-group content <- YesWhat would you view as a reasonable "limited time investment"? <- The convenience of a PuG-able large scale instance that can be reached via the Group Finder
Which of those three is the largest turn-off to you? (difficulty, time, or organization) <- Organization:  Difficulty isn't a problem, I'll happily wipe a few times to feel the satisfaction of accomplishing a goal, but rearranging my personal schedule to show up to a Raid is not likely to occur, and waiting for 19 other people to show up reliably isn't on my list of things that I think of as "fun"
Pass to see the lore and story and characters in the raid zones. Or, well, do you want to *specifically* see Genetic Archives and Datascape (and Initialization Core Y-83 soon!) or simply any [some cool zone] that scratches the itch of content at the suggested difficulty level? <- The developers put a lot of hard work, time, and money into putting these instances together.  I think it would be great to appreciate that personally.
Raid-quality loot <- Nope.  Putting Raid-quality loot in LFR would be disastrous.  People who are willing to put forth the time and effort to learn the  mechanics, organize, and participate in the actual Raid experience should be rewarded for that level of dedication.  Not providing that reward would effectively destroy any incentive to participate in this type of activity and would be very unfair to people who do Raid.
I would recommend utilizing LFR as a "practice mode" of sorts, where the gear is intended to prepare individuals for the real Raid by providing Veteran Dungeon quality gear (i.e. an alternative to grinding Vet Dungeons) as well as a more "organic" and, less daunting, way to learn the basics of the instance, and hopefully inspire more people (not me in particular) to look at the idea of Raiding and help to grow that aspect of the game.
 
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I'm curious:  For folks in favor of LFR, what are you looking for?
Very low barrier to entry (ie, forgiving difficulty, limited time investment, minimal organizational requirements) large-group contentWhat would you view as a reasonable "limited time investment"?
Which of those three is the largest turn-off to you? (difficulty, time, or organization)
Pass to see the lore and story and characters in the raid zones. Or, well, do you want to *specifically* see Genetic Archives and Datascape (and Initialization Core Y-83 soon!) or simply any [some cool zone] that scratches the itch of content at the suggested difficulty level?
Raid-quality loot
 
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I'm curious:  For folks in favor of LFR, what are you looking for?
Very low barrier to entry (ie, forgiving difficulty, limited time investment, minimal organizational requirements) large-group contentWhat would you view as a reasonable "limited time investment"? 2 hours
Which of those three is the largest turn-off to you? (difficulty, time, or organization) organization, if i didnt need it to organize it it will be cool, even be a 10 man tipe of content
Pass to see the lore and story and characters in the raid zones. Or, well, do you want to *specifically* see Genetic Archives and Datascape (and Initialization Core Y-83 soon!) or simply any [some cool zone] that scratches the itch of content at the suggested difficulty level? im for more lore and story and characters of the raid zones
Raid-quality loot only if you find a way that dont trivialize the actual content. i still wanna to go to GA to get to DS
Long story short it will be cool that you create some side content to the raids that give us a scratch of the content   and the suggested difficult (AKA like omnicore but really more difficult), with lower amount of organization (10 man) that you can queue  in the lfg and that give us  itm lvl 61 for side content GA and itm lvl 69 for side content DS
 
side content GA queue can be unlocked  completing vet SC, KV, STL and regular SSM
side content DS queue can be unlocked by killing ohmna
 
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Except they don't, which is why most modern mmos other than WildStar are or have implemented it.
 
We've had this discussion a ton of times; obviously there's always going to be the special snowflakes and entitled players who believe that only they should be able to do raids. That type of player is not the kind of player that can sustain an mmo though. Anyway WS has bigger problems at the moment like the inability to do dungeons/pvp before 50.
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dudes , i dont understand that actitude, TT has given you the opportunity to say what you want, but you still want to move this topic into another path. i know TT derailed the topic it because it was just a nerdfight, but he gave now the opportunity to the community to say what they want in a system of LFR, now do your part and give your feedback by answering his questions and tell your friends to do their feedback too, if he gets enough feedback, (and i say multudinary feedback) you may be will change something, but if you miss this chance this posts and all the words in it will be just like dust in the wind.im not happy with a LFR system, thats why i gave my feedback on how i would like to be implemented, now do your duty citizen of nexus.
 
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I'm curious:  For folks in favor of LFR, what are you looking for?
Very low barrier to entry (ie, forgiving difficulty, limited time investment, minimal organizational requirements) large-group contentWhat would you view as a reasonable "limited time investment"?
Which of those three is the largest turn-off to you? (difficulty, time, or organization)
Pass to see the lore and story and characters in the raid zones. Or, well, do you want to *specifically* see Genetic Archives and Datascape (and Initialization Core Y-83 soon!) or simply any [some cool zone] that scratches the itch of content at the suggested difficulty level?
Raid-quality loot
 
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I'm curious:  For folks in favor of LFR, what are you looking for?
Very low barrier to entry (ie, forgiving difficulty, limited time investment, minimal organizational requirements) large-group content limited time, like sessions of 45 minutes or 30 minutes of 10 or 15 man content that can be puggable but still difficultWhat would you view as a reasonable "limited time investment"?
Which of those three is the largest turn-off to you? (difficulty, time, or organization) time
Pass to see the lore and story and characters in the raid zones. Or, well, do you want to *specifically* see Genetic Archives and Datascape (and Initialization Core Y-83 soon!) or simply any [some cool zone] that scratches the itch of content at the suggested difficulty level? A cool zone that scratches the content a show us some of the character and lore, like side content to the raids but that could be done in like 30 mins or 45 mins with 10 people or 15, with diffcult bosses but short ones, maybe do it by wings with 2 bosses that can be done fast and 3 wings for a GA side story
Raid-quality loot dont care about the loot, it could be costumes, customizations or even subpar raid gear
 
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I'm curious:  For folks in favor of LFR, what are you looking for?
Very low barrier to entry (ie, forgiving difficulty, limited time investment, minimal organizational requirements) large-group contentWhat would you view as a reasonable "limited time investment"?
Which of those three is the largest turn-off to you? (difficulty, time, or organization
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So i spoke with a few friend's about what doing an LFR in wildstar could look like.
 
Basically, What i'd like to see.
 
Mechanics tuned down to not completely outright destroy your group if it's failed, but still "punish" you somewhat (A good healer or two should be able to clean it up).
Each boss should have the "wow style" lockout, of loot per boss, not one week for everything.
Trash should have it's HP Halved, And you should not be able to summon inside, long story short, if you're going to make it so people can see content, make them do it, but make it forgiving ( Long time on bosses, short times on "Base pop.".
Bosses should not drop any real GA / DS Quality progression gear, at a maximum, Vet Dungeon / Hopper of Hued Hue's gear... 
Since you now have the awesomeness of the new costume setup, AND minipet's, here's what you do!
Each class now has a unique costume available only from LFR... Each boss has a chance ( say 20% ) to drop one of the costume slot's. Meaning Head from X boss, and only X boss. etc etc.
Each boss has a 10% Chance to drop a mini-pet version of itself
Final bosses have a chance to drop a LFR Specific Mount, DIFFERENT than say the Datascape Drifter.
Trash + Bosses drop ton's of Decor, TONS.. of it..
Focus on more Cosmetic/Mounts/Minipet type loot vs statistical character improvements.
If you add in the minipet's remember, each player ( 20 / 40? ) Would have an individual roll on the pet themselves, so it should be soulbound.  If you want it, go que for it each week, and you can run it multiple times for the decor off trash etc etc, but the boss kills will be 1 per week(Meaning, costume slot's, mounts, mini-pet's)
You should also retroactively add the minipet's to the MAIN raid (Normal / non lfr ) version. With a 100% chance to drop it per boss killed, but only drop 1 ( which can be master looted to the winner etc) as well as an additional for completing a challenge.
 
This structure incintivizes player's who may not want to participate in a hardcore raiding guild, to do the things they want to do, Like go out and get costume item's / Decor / Mounts! Allowing them to do it in a fun way, and seeing the content you guy's have put out, also it allow's the hardcore raider's something to do in the down time, without making them feel like it's a forced step in progression ( Like wow's Raidfinder does ). 
 
You would be giving casual's a HUGE boost of something to do, with asset's you already have. The new work would be creating ~12 new costume set's and 2 new mount's, but the model's for the minipet's exist already.. Some bosses like Phage council, etc, not sure of your capacity on that system, but i could imagine 1 pet with 4 individual children ( or kinda like how the tiger's from Wilderrun work ).
 
Oh, and you could add in a Raidfinder Title as well..
 
These would all be changes that would not really detract hardcore raider's from the fight's, but it would also teach player's some of the mechanics, or at least what to expect them to do - to some degree - 
 
More or less, Explain the hard mechanics well, but don't make them 1 shot you, or even half shot you in LFR mode, you want them to 1/4th shot you, give the healer's room to heal through stupid.
 
 
 
on a more advanced note, you could add a form of debuff that being hit by a mechanic that you are not supposed to be hit by put's on you with a decent duration called "Bad" or "Softcore" haha, so that player's who are being hit by it repeatedly would understand.. "Something is being done wrong... If i have this, i am wrong." 	
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Hey, Timetravel. Glad to see you.
 
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Minimal organizational requirements are most important. The whole point of LFR is that you don't need to schedule, you get into a queue and run the content when there's 19 other people in the queue who also want to run the content. They'll work out which of them needs to be tanks and healers, your queue shouldn't be trying to do that for them. 
 
Limited time investment (in one sitting) comes next. I don't mind having to swap to a different pug from one day to the next as I try to make progress through a continual chain of encounters nearly as much as I mind the "you must not leave your chair for the next 3 hours" aspect of raiding. An hour tops to make it to the next checkpoint. Should be easily feasible given that the boss encounters are all on enrage timers.
 
Difficulty doesn't need to be trivialized, but it does need to be puggable by a 20 person group. That doesn't mean mechanics are impossible, it means mechanics can't effectively require things like voice chat and addons to complete. Those things aren't base components of your game.
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I'm curious:  For folks in favor of LFR, what are you looking for?
Very low barrier to entry (ie, forgiving difficulty, limited time investment, minimal organizational requirements) large-group contentWhat would you view as a reasonable "limited time investment"? Up to 1 hour for 3-4 bosses, longer if there's more bosses but I rather have wings with 3-4 bosses in each wing.
Which of those three is the largest turn-off to you? (difficulty, time, or organization) They all kind of are but difficulty is probably the biggest one! It also directly relates to time, because the more difficult it is the more a random group wipes and therefore takes more time to finish the raid. Also I like LFR for "no strings attached" easier content. I've been a member of quite a few raiding guilds in the past and the guld politics just isn't for me, I constantly felt like I was in a toxic environment.
Pass to see the lore and story and characters in the raid zones. Or, well, do you want to *specifically* see Genetic Archives and Datascape (and Initialization Core Y-83 soon!) or simply any [some cool zone] that scratches the itch of content at the suggested difficulty level? I want to specifically see GA /Datascape/ Core Y-83.
Raid-quality loot  Raid quality loot that looks the same but has a lower item level to regular difficulty loot.
 
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ALL of this requires the content to be trivialized. As we've seen in practically every single MMO that's had pug friendly versions of raids through LFR. WoW and SWTOR being the biggest culprits. Cutting out, or at least diminishing, mechanics that remove the need for planning and VoIP, has always led to difficulty levels being reduced content. Despite all the reassuring claims to the contrary from its supporters, in both games, of "they don't need to trivialize things", they've always had to. In order to make it more pug friendly. This isn't an argument in support or against LFR, just adding a bit of history and honesty to this post.
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I'm curious:  For folks in favor of LFR, what are you looking for?
Very low barrier to entry (ie, forgiving difficulty, limited time investment, minimal organizational requirements) large-group contentWhat would you view as a reasonable "limited time investment"?
Which of those three is the largest turn-off to you? (difficulty, time, or organization)
Pass to see the lore and story and characters in the raid zones. Or, well, do you want to *specifically* see Genetic Archives and Datascape (and Initialization Core Y-83 soon!) or simply any [some cool zone] that scratches the itch of content at the suggested difficulty level?
Raid-quality loot
 
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I'm curious:  For folks in favor of LFR, what are you looking for?
Very low barrier to entry (ie, forgiving difficulty, limited time investment, minimal organizational requirements) large-group content - Barrier for entry should be a gearscore system imo, (to prevent timewasters) maybe a small attunement system, but definitely something that is achievable somewhat easily (no world bosses) Difficulty wise, difficulty should be more based on an individual level as opposed to completely on the team. (ie no player bomb kills the entire raid mechanics) One shot mechanics clearly telegraphed so the raid knows what to do without too much hassle.What would you view as a reasonable "limited time investment"?  1-2hours depending on the amount of bosses. Sections would be split into wings so that an individual could tackle the entire raid over the course of a week.
Which of those three is the largest turn-off to you? (difficulty, time, or organization) Definitely organisation, difficult encounters can be really fun (ie titan extreme, Ultima hard) but not all players are capable of the strict organisational requirements that regular raiding usually requires.
Pass to see the lore and story and characters in the raid zones. Or, well, do you want to *specifically* see Genetic Archives and Datascape (and Initialization Core Y-83 soon!) or simply any [some cool zone] that scratches the itch of content at the suggested difficulty level? Personally I would prefer to see the current raids as well as any story that goes along with them. 
Raid-quality loot Definitely not as good as the counterpart raid. The idea is not to completely trivialise the regular raids but more to provide more players with a carrot on a stick beyond dungeons. Story mode raid loot should be better than dungeon loot but worse than its comparable raid; maybe when the next full raid is released, story mode DS could drop loot that is comparable to regular GA for instance.
 
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Trivialized to who, Dharnell? The intended audience of content with reduced difficulty isn't the people who are ready to start the content at normal difficulty, and it certainly isn't people who have already completed that content. 
 
 It should not be trivialized for its intended spot in a progression, which is less difficult than the current raids but for people who have capped out the components of endgame progression that were explicitly designed for PUGs (Vet Adventures) and are more likely to leave the game entirely than go join a dedicated large-group guild. This is something for them to do rather than get bored and leave.
 
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Oh, make no mistake--the story of TSW is top-notch. But that's not what I was talking about, since I know better than to think that the "challenge players" care about story that much.
 
I actually meant I liked the gameplay of the dungeons there better than here, even though I like that game's combat system less. There's a good mix of classic tank n' spank and highly varied mechanics that require some really deep understanding of the skill tree and the options available to you in terms of movement, buffs, debuffs, and special effects. A lot of cooperation required and a range of difficulties available to match up with your particular group. Very impressive.
 
And you've never heard of it? That's a shame, but not very surprising. After all, if it's not WoW or FF or SWTOR, it's a fair bet that most people haven't played it. Most people there probably have never heard of this game either.
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Chill, guys :) I think what yasfan meant is that the content will not be trivialised for the current raiders but it will be trivialised for it's intended LFR crowd, because it has to be, so that regular payers can do it without wiping for hours.
 
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	Edited April 1, 2015 by Chillia	
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I'm curious: For folks in favor of LFR, what are you looking for?
 
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