127097-top-reasons-youre-excited-for-f2p-and-top-reasons-why-you-arent

== Content ==
			Hey everyone, I just joined the game and don't know too much about changes that have taken place, or the general state of the game now. I want to help bring more coverage to the game and help others learn why they should our should not be excited for the payment transition. So I want to hear what the community has to say about it, please list your reasons below, both positive and negative if you got them. THANKS!	
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			Everything you want to know is in the official feedback thread.	
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[ OPINION ]
 
I can only really come up with two potential pros of F2P:
More players = more ideas, more people to raid with, more stuff on the auction house, etc.Having more brains working on addons, more artists making cool things, and more good suggestions from the community are huge gains. 
Free-to-play lets people choose whether or not the game's content / community / management is worth their money.In theory, this means the game can make a lot of extra income if the community consensus on new content is that it's worth the 5 bucks here or the 10 bucks there for neat new things, which is a positive cycle for everyone involved.It is very important to note that players also make financial decisions based on whether or not community figureheads are actually listening to their community.
As for cons, well, here are my top three:
The first thing that dies when a game goes F2P is decent support.My expectation is that support will not be able to keep up with the increased ticket volume from the growing playerbase. This is one of the many reasons I quit TERA. 
Free-to-play models often supplement cool new things with superfluous RNG.End result: players must spend more money on attempts to get items, rather than receiving what they paid for outright.We have already seen this implemented with the Snarfelynx mount and Glitter Kitty hoverboard.There is no maybe - unless several people get fired, this IS going to happen and it's going to create an enormous schism in the community that'll be a lot worse than the existing feelings of discontent. 
Free-to-play models remove account commitment. There will be more bots, running better software that has a much faster fail-and-evolve cycle than the ones we saw at launch. It is unrealistic to expect support to be able to deal with this at the time of transition while they are busy handling the thousands of other new tickets clogging up their queues, many of which will be designed specifically by the people running bots to take up support's time and resources so that potential bot uptime is maximized. Players that are banned only lose account inventory - which is not a big deal when you can run 7500 bots simultaneously.	
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pros:
 
- Hopeful revival of low level pvp and rbgs/arenas
- More activity on the AH/CX
- Hopeful revival of pvp servers
- Better queue times
- More people to recruit :D
 
cons:
 
- possibility of too much cash shop not enough content 
- lock boxes :( pls no
- possibility of more bots and gold sellers
- trolls... maybe in small or large amounts
- more bad players :(	
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- more bad players :(
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Yeah, we're definitely going to receive people that either aren't capable of clearing the harder content or aren't willing to commit the time and effort to clear the harder content, but will still want access to the rewards from such.
 
So, when that happens, you have a few options.
Nerf existing content (and supplement with harder content elsewhere?)
Deal with people selling carries to each other. ( Do I even have to mention what happened to ranked PvP? )This problematic social phenomenon has verymuch poisoned communities in games like TERA and FFXIV. I don't want it in WildStar.
By 'Deal with' I do not mean tolerate from the sidelines, I mean systematic removal.
Maybe now is a good time to make raid carries a bannable offense.
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Honestly my biggest fear for this game has always been nerfing things the wrong way.
 
The big difference between wildstar and other mmos is that it's hard everywhere. At any level with any playstyle I can find difficult content. I dont have to wait to be max level, I dont have to wait to be raiding. I can do vet dungeons or heck even vet adventures when you do stupid big pulls and have to be on my toes.
 
I can level and fear danger, attempt to solo +2 or +3 mobs and feel satisfied when I finally snag that kill. With an influx of players comes people that might not understand wildstars difficulty scale, and might ask for nerfs. F2P is because it cannot support itself on a P2P model, so will they nerf to appeal to the mass amount of free players we'll be getting? Hopefully not. That's wildstars niche imo.
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			I agree! I hope we foster that mentality on a larger scale instead of it being seen as a rarity.	
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Reasons I'm excited:
 
1: More people to run content with and more queues popping at all levels
2: Not having the threat of being locked out of the game if I can't get a credd for the month
 
Reasons I'm dreading f2p:
 
1: an influx of "special snowflakes" who feel everything should be handed to them
2: more lag for events and/or main questing hubs
3: most cool stuff will be in the cash shop instead of available in-game	
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Reason to be excited....none. Makes no difference for me, as long as I am playing.
 
Not excited... 
 
1) Bad players, PuGs are bad enough as is.
2) trolls. I really hate that mentality, but then again I hate the Internet humour. Remove the fear of getting punched in the face and people turn into twats
3) lockboxes. I hope they do not come. Neverwinter has that plaque and it is just annoying.
4) content will be nerfed. I will be happy for levelling content to be nerfed, but not elder game	
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Excited for: Cool new swag like mounts, costumes, decor, etc!
 
Not excited for: Some of the um... colorful denizens of the net who might come along now.	
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Tons more players.
I'll be a signature player so pretty much everything I'll do in game will be buffed.	
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			Not sure whether excited or not; it is Wildstar after all.  It is what it is, think the fact we're staring f2p in the face speaks for itself.  :rolleyes:	
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pros
More people
More #swag items
PvP server revival (?)
cons
Further delay in the new (and in my opinion much needed) content: raids, dungeons, etc.
Things will probably be nerfed (it's already happening, just think about drop 5: MORE DEEEEEEEEPS FOR EVERYONE!!!!!*)
The population may or may not kill my FPS (plz add instances to blighthaven too)
Who is going to buy C.R.E.D.D. (to sell it for plats) when cosmetics and things like that will be available for direct purchase for real money in the shop?
 
 
 
 
 
*ok not really everyone but in general they buffed more than they nerfed	
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Pros:
More players
More money=more content (hopefully)
PVP SERVER!!
More of my friends will play
 
Cons:
Trolls
Bads
possible overuse of cash shop	
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Pros:
 
- More players and all associated benefits thereof (shorter queues, more addon support, etc)
 
Cons:
 
- Influx of players with no particular committment to the game (and probably think everything should be soloable).
- 3 more kinds of currency in additional to all the existing ones.
- Gold farmers have no barrier to entry.
- Dumbing down for the masses because volume is almost always more profitable than sticking to your original vision.
- RNG boxes in the cash shop, along with excessive (and exclusive) focus on cash shop.
- Sharp decline in customer service.
- Probably a more toxic community, but hopefully not.	
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pros
More people
More #swag items
PvP server revival (?)
cons
Further delay in the new (and in my opinion much needed) content: raids, dungeons, etc.
Things will probably be nerfed (it's already happening, just think about drop 5: MORE DEEEEEEEEPS FOR EVERYONE!!!!!*)
The population may or may not kill my FPS (plz add instances to blighthaven too)
Who is going to buy C.R.E.D.D. (to sell it for plats) when cosmetics and things like that will be available for direct purchase for real money in the shop?
 
 
 
 
 
*ok not really everyone but in general they buffed more than they nerfed
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Pros:
 
More players
only pay for things i like. With sub i pay for 80% crap imo.
I like items I buy for real money far far more than anything I could ever get in game by playing.
Money talks....Carbine can use statistics to see what ppl like (and pay for) and make more of that.
I can buy myself out of things i dont wanna do...hopefully I can buy amps/skillpoints and maybe more ;)
More pugs will pop for vet adventures and dungeons..and even pug raids
The community will turn from "anti-controversial & wierd friendlyness" to a more open minded, casual, smack talking group of diversity:)
Carbine will make more money than they ever would have with a sub model
Cons:
 
At this time and age.....NONE!	
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Pro:
 
More players
Continued game development
More rewards for paying customers
 
Cons:
None. All the garbage parroted about F2P implies little knowledge of the actual product or any form of rational thinking. 	
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Pros:
 
More players
only pay for things i like. With sub i pay for 80% crap imo.
I like items I buy for real money far far more than anything I could ever get in game by playing.
Money talks....Carbine can use statistics to see what ppl like (and pay for) and make more of that.
I can buy myself out of things i dont wanna do...hopefully I can buy amps/skillpoints and maybe more ;)
More pugs will pop for vet adventures and dungeons..and even pug raids
The community will turn from "anti-controversial & wierd friendlyness" to a more open minded, casual, smack talking group of diversity:)
Carbine will make more money than they ever would have with a sub model
Cons:
 
At this time and age.....NONE! 
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Pros:
 
More People
A few of my friends maybe willing to try it if its free
PvP queues will pop
I can return to the PvP server where I belong
Lopps might become a playable race in the cash shop
Cons:
 
Different currency being added to the game
Bots and Spammers
Trolls
Going to have to block zone chat
Community turns to shit
More development is going to go into the cash shop
Dumbing down the game
The forums will be awful
 
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Cons:
 
At this time and age.....NONE! 
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Pro's
More people
The game might have a future, seeing the financials.
 
Con'sI'm not a big fan of content in a shop, but if we get points for subbing that might mitigate this a bit.
Perhaps content nerfs that will hurt part of this game charm.	
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Pro:
 
More players
Continued game development
More rewards for paying customers
 
Cons:
None. All the garbage parroted about F2P implies little knowledge of the actual product or any form of rational thinking. 
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How much money does RIOT have to spend to only slightly curb the toxicity of their community?
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Oh f2p, how I loathe you...
 
Pros:
- I guess more players
- Can maybe convince a friend that quit to come back
 
Cons:
- Probable influx of rng boxes (*twitch*)
- My prime motivations for play (decor, cosmetics) largely on cash shop
- Development time split between cash shop and actual content
- The movie theatre effect; Carbine will now constantly push the envelope to see just how far they can go, just how much stuff they can wall off in a cash shop, just how close they can get to selling power, just how much they can charge for things; this introduces an element of extreme risk to the future of the game experience
- high risk of difficulty nerfs (I am still bitter about BAM nerfs and the removal of several dungeons in TERA)	
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How many times will someone bring up a different genre and play experiences to try and make a facetious statement in a discourse on MMOs transitioning to F2P? An unfathomable amount of times.
 
How many times will be people say things like 'omg F2P games have the worst people' when subscription games have the same terrible people? Last time I checked, creating barriers to things often creates inflated sense of importance which translates to pretty poor behavior.
 
You can't toss a rock without hitting a jerk in a fine dining restaurant, but it's a lot harder in a soup kitchen.
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Pros:
 
- Fresh start for Carbine
- Cash Shop (Being able to buy costumes that are not gated by running content) (Having more variety in costumes)
- More players (Will feel important as a Settler again plus some much needed additions to Dominion)
- Can keep playing when my financials are unstable
- Can bring more friends to play with me
- Hopefully more choices in gameplay
- More opinions and viewpoints will be added
 
Cons:
 
- Less account security a.k.a. more hackers (it seems Wildstar had a bot problem even when it was a sub so)
- Chance of Cash Shop being overpriced with RIGs
- Server lag and FPS drops
 
I trust that Carbine will not take this as an opportunity to abuse the playerbase. I'm extremely confident that they will make a F2P model that will be successful and fair.	
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How does the genre make any difference whatsoever in behaviour? Even if it did, PVP battlegrounds and a game of LOL are very, very similar.
 
I'm sure LOL has lots of classy people who are chill and just want to play in peace, like any F2P game, but that hasn't really helped LOL avoid a culture of toxic behaviour with the public at large, and consequently RIOT is having to pay big money employing psychologists and developing systems and CS to combat a never ending turnover of unvetted players.
 
I don't actually think the situation in Wildstar will be that bad, but anecdotally speaking (since data is almost impossible to find), F2P games have been the worse off compared to games with buy ins.  With a box purchase, there's at least the tiny incentive to behave or you'll lose the value of your purchase, and everyone knows that everyone else has that same incentive. 
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Good job not addressing the main point. But hey, when you're wrong you're wrong...so better to not touch it in detail. Also, if you think the genre of game has no bearing on the people playing or the behavior present, I'm not sure you're adequately experienced to have a proper discourse on the subject you raised.
 
Remember the last time we had those 12 year old Call of Duty kids playing Lord of the Rings online and causing a ruckus calling people all sorts of racially charged and sexually explicit names? Oh wait..no. It's almost as if they aren't attracted to that style of RPG. Remember all of those hardcore LOL players that were on Evindra roleplaying their hearts out, but then reverted to the wrong game personality in a fit of bipolar outbursts? No.
 
It's almost like different people like different things and inherently act different. It's almost like making widespread claims of causality without realizing that everything is a possibility simply because humans on the whole have great capability for being dbags just happens.
 
But hey, carry on you shining star. Keep repping those F2P myths. :rolleyes:
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 F2P just guarantees more of it.
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Data or gtfo. Keep on avoiding and resorting to generalization. If you want your head in the sand, there's nothing I can do to help you.
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i am generally excited for F2P.
 
the game needs players, almost nothing can be more important than that...
 
would i prefer a sub based game with more players over an f2p game with more players? definitely! i prefer subs. But i know that realistically at this point the game needs more players and a sub model was not permitting this because of the great exodus last fall.
 
so i embrace f2p. the model seems fair enough, and though i prefer subs, i would make the same choice as Carbine; go f2p/hybrid.	
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PRO:
 
1. More newbies!
2. Lowbie PVP queues!
3. More potential guildmates and RPers!
4. Warplots more than once a year!
5. A hopefully well-stocked cash shop that makes me want to support it!
 
CON:
 
1. The F2P Trolls and Crows. You know, the guys who will come here with no other purpose than to grief us and mock the game as a "failure" for going F2P.
2. The F2P Trolls and Crows. You know, the guys who will come here with no other purpose than to provoke people into an argument.
3. The F2P Trolls and Crows. You know, the guys who will come here with no other purpose than to complain about what they DON'T GET because they are freebots.
4. Server stability. It's ALREADY bad right now. Add in 6,000,000 freebots and it's going to look like launch day around here with server meltdowns and disconnects.
5. Lack of security, farming bots and gold spammers ... all of which will happen and happen quickly after the transition.	
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4. Server stability. It's ALREADY bad right now. Add in 6,000,000 freebots and it's going to look like launch day around here with server meltdowns and disconnects.
 
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You should have been here the night we actually made a server catch fire.
 
We are "Of the Wrecking Crew" for a reason. We broke it, and broke it BAD!	
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Pros:
The revival of the PvP server.
 
Cons:
PUG groups are gonna go down in quality, not sure if they'll recover anytime soon.
I'm already mentally preparing myself by playing more LoL and exposing myself to that toxic community, bring it on FTP crowd.	
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Pro's
 
More players
 
Cool items for sale
 
Con's
 
I don't have any yet, guess we will see this fall.	
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Pros:
 
 
 
Cons:
 
 	
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Oh f2p, how I loathe you...
 
Pros:
- I guess more players
- Can maybe convince a friend that quit to come back
 
Cons:
- Probable influx of rng boxes (*twitch*)
- My prime motivations for play (decor, cosmetics) largely on cash shop
- Development time split between cash shop and actual content
- The movie theatre effect; Carbine will now constantly push the envelope to see just how far they can go, just how much stuff they can wall off in a cash shop, just how close they can get to selling power, just how much they can charge for things; this introduces an element of extreme risk to the future of the game experience
- high risk of difficulty nerfs (I am still bitter about BAM nerfs and the removal of several dungeons in TERA)
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			I don't get it ^^^^..	
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I don't get it ^^^^..
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Don't read my post if you're an F2P fanatic, it'll just tick you off.
 
Reasons why I'm excited:
 
... Do I even have any? I mean, sure, the population will grow, but it will only be filled with entitled little brats who can't pay for a game to play it, and will expect everything to be handed to them on a golden platter (not just silver!).
 
Reasons why I'm seriously considering just finding a new game to play:
 
First and foremost, the biggest thing that's pushing me away is the entire concept of F2P. It used to be that video games were made like a book, and were just so good you bought them in order to play them, and would happily throw more money at the developers to keep making good games like that. Lately, developers are turning into sleazy little wallet-humping asshats, rather than actual game developers, and came up with the whole scam of "F2P" and "DLC."
 
Wildstar is going to have DLC in the form of paid content (it's on the FAQ) and expansions. Way back when, game developers would release a game that was fully-fleshed out and completed, and people would play them for years on end (can you say hello to any games from the 80s-early 00s?) just because they were that great a game. Nowadays, before the game is even half done, the developers start scheming and planning on how to cut things out of the game in order to milk you, and end up releasing a game that obviously has some issues and missing content. Then, some variable amount of time later, they'll "reveal" this shiny new feature they'll add to the game, but you have to pay them for all their hard work imagining and creating this "new" feature. After they cut out parts of a game and sell it to you separately, they act like they're doing you this huge favor, and it's just disgusting that people actually buy into it.
 
Then, on the other side of the coin, we have "F2P." 10 years ago, F2P was not even a concept, let along the standard business model. Most games were B2P with no cash shop (Diablo and such), or P2P (WoW and the like). Sure, there were games out there with cash shops in them, but they were generally frowned upon as the scam they are, and people played the games that didn't exist just to inhale your money (I mean, they wanted your money, but they cared about making a quality game as well). Eventually, as games became more popular, more people started to play them. At first, this wasn't a bad thing, but after a while, we had an invasion of sorts; the "gamers" we know as casuals started playing. These are the people who, honestly, shouldn't really be playing games. In most of the P2P games that existed at the time, these were the people who wouldn't put in the effort to get that shiny piece of armor, or that pretty mount, or even learn the class they were playing! Those few games with cash shops in them promised them all kinds of gear with no effort, costumes that didn't have to be farmed, super cool mounts and boosts to make them more powerful -- all for money, which meant no effort or time commitment! Now we have a new wave of "F2P" games that are widely accepted as standard, but have several major flaws in a gamer's eye (of course, the casuals love them because they can play dress-up without having to play the game); the biggest issue is that, since the developers make money off of the casuals who don't really want to play any content, the majority of development time goes into the cash shop, making pretty costumes and sparkly ponies to ride around on. Sure, the devs know that they make a bit of money off of gamers too, so they throw a bone every now and then, but it's an old, dirty bone that really isn't what you would expect from a large, experienced company. They also know that gamers would rather work for things they don't have, and won't necessarily throw money at things, so they make it "possible" to earn cash shop currency, but it takes such a ridiculously long amount of time that it breaks most gamers and makes them just throw money at the company, even if they don't really want to.
 
So, why do I not like F2P? It entirely shifts the focus of the company from making a good, quality game that keeps people coming back, to devising ways to make people want to throw money at the crap shop. The majority of dev focus is on the cash shop (where their money comes from), and while the casual invaders are happy, gamers are spurned and lose the quality of content they love.
 
Why do I not like DLC? In the same spirit as F2P, it makes the development team into a money-hungry parasite who tries to find every viable bit of content they can cut in order to make you pay more for what should arguably have been in the game from the start, and then they act like they're doing you a favor in the end.
 
Other reasons I'm not excited about "F2P"
 
Influx of trolls, spammers and every kind of filth that lives on the internet.
Walled-off content.
The game made so miserable that you just HAVE to pay in order to enjoy yourself.
Dev focus being on cash shop rather than quality content.
More infrequent content updates (someone who worked on GW2 said that they had quotas for the crapshop, and would literally just drop content in order to meet it)
People acting like F2P is such a *cupcake*ing Godsend and savior, toting their "Holier-than-thou" attitude about it everywhere.
Nerfing of content for casual invaders.
The spurning of gamers in favor of milking whales.
The fact that, once Wildstar goes F2P, it's just another game to cross off the list.
Musings of a "troll" who misses the way games used to be:
 
I started playing Wildstar because it had potential; all the F2P games out these days are just garbage, and even console games are dropping quality like it's going out of style, but some games stood out. Wildstar had a dev team that I felt actually cared about the game, and wanted it to succeed... then NCsoft came in and started firing people left and right, rushing the game out the door, and all kinds of chaos ensued. The game was too hard for most people to play, so they ended up quitting. So NCsoft got rid of the people who wanted a hard game, and then mandated that the game be made more invader-friendly. When that failed, as the game was still way too hard and actually required people to go out and play the game, NCsoft decided to just go full on milking mode, and converted the game to F2P. Now, the game will be nothing more than another dress-up simulator that kinda sorta has something else to do. Content will never be the focus of the game anymore, and the overall quality will plummet for anything that isn't infested with "casuals."
 
Games just aren't made for gamers anymore. I don't pretend like they are, because they really aren't. You don't have deep, engaging content anymore - that was removed in favor of quantity over quality. The infestation doesn't care about the lore, or how immersed you become, they just want instant gratification and the feeling that they accomplished something. But hey, that's where the money is, so all the new companies are founded on that ideal, and the old companies are dying off, being replaced by newer CEO's and employees who are fine with twisting the legacies they were never a part of. It's like watching something you love so much just slowly dying a painful death -- it's heart-breaking, really. : /
 
So, congratulations "casuals," you infested another game/company and drove them to break the game for you. A month or so after F2P, you'll move on to the next field and eat all the crops, and then the next, and then the next... always hungry, always eating.
 
I dream of the day a pesticide is invented (AKA, a good, quality game and company that doesn't focus 100% on milking people and sets a precedent for others to follow)... though I don't have much, if any, hope left.	
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Musings of a "troll" who misses the way games used to be:
 
 
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You should have put this at the top, because pretty much everything you just said feels like a "troll" meant to get people angry.
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No, I get all that - and in parts, I kind of saw what you were getting at.
 
And then, you basically told me that me and my kind (casual players who have money) are the downfall of MMO gaming, the cause of the Apocalypse and a scourge you want wiped from existence (or at least out of any game that you might want to play.)
 
And you promptly lost all sympathy I had mustered - and even if I wanted to agree with parts of what you said, I can't.
 
Rather, I shouldn't, because in your world, I shouldn't even be here, don't deserve this game and I certainly shouldn't dare to share gaming space with you.
 
Pffft.  :angry:	
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No, I get all that - and in parts, I kind of saw what you were getting at.
 
And then, you basically told me that me and my kind (casual players who have money) are the downfall of MMO gaming, the cause of the Apocalypse and a scourge you want wiped from existence (or at least out of any game that you might want to play.)
 
And you promptly lost all sympathy I had mustered - and even if I wanted to agree with parts of what you said, I can't.
 
Rather, I shouldn't, because in your world, I shouldn't even be here, don't deserve this game and I certainly shouldn't dare to share gaming space with you.
 
Pffft.  :angry:
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snip
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couldnt agree more. games are not targeted at people who play them for the long term, they are targeted at whales. eventually something will give. and a dev company will make a good game for the passion and not for the money.
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So a whale can't be a long-term player? 
 
Geez, you people and your one-sided viewpoints, where everyone fits into the nice little box of negativity you've crafted for them.
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 These are the people who, honestly, shouldn't really be playing games. 
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 The F2P crowd is PEOPLE ARE very fickle and picky.
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The second definition of "casual," (the more common type of person I see, imo) is someone who is rather lazy and spoiled by modern society. They expect things to be handed to them, and can't be bothered to spend any real time or effort to do things, even though they most definitely could. They would rather throw money at things to take a shortcut than to do things the old-fashioned way and earn what you get. They don't care much for the game itself, they just want to play it to say they did, and to brag about "beating" it to all their friends. They throw a fit when things don't go their way, and twist arms until they get what they want.
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You know what I'm excited for ???
 
The fact that F2P is gonna happen, Wildstar is going to start making money again, and the world's not going to end, cupcake.
 
I'm excited for people who constantly puts down this player model, these PLAYERS, to shut up and swallow their stupid pride. Like y'all sound more entitled than we do. I wasn't going to pay for more than a month of this game UNTIL I heard it was going free to play. I started playing with one of my friends and we started having fun.
 
And guess what, I'm a casual. I have always been a casual. I don't give a macaroon about playing video games half the time but I like to play them with friends and I like to have fun. So casual's are ALREADY in 'your' game. So I guess you weren't paying much attention. 	
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And then, you basically told me that me and my kind (casual players who have money) are the downfall of MMO gaming, the cause of the Apocalypse and a scourge you want wiped from existence (or at least out of any game that you might want to play.)
 
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Don't read my post if you're an F2P fanatic, it'll just tick you off.
 
Reasons why I'm excited:
 
... Do I even have any? I mean, sure, the population will grow, but it will only be filled with entitled little brats who can't pay for a game to play it, and will expect everything to be handed to them on a golden platter (not just silver!).
 
Reasons why I'm seriously considering just finding a new game to play:
 
/snip
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Good lord, you sound like some octogenarian ranting about the good old days, or one of the 6,000,000 articles written now for the sole purpose of shitting of millennials. There were people like this 20 years ago, they just didn't *cupcake*ing play video games. Video games just became accessible to more people. Does it suck, yea somewhat. But it also means that there is a bigger pool of development money generally. Why do you think the indie game development scene exploded? More money all around, more titles being made. Unfortunately MMO's tend to be the development money-sink equivalent of Hollywood summer blockbusters, so you have to build a model to generate ROI or no-one will back your game. 
 
As for DLC, its been around since your touted golden era of video games in the form of expansion packs (sonic and knuckles, command and conquer, tribunal). I will agree that some companies have gotten particularly "odious" about it (*cough* EA), but as content distribution models evolved and distribution costs fell, this was the natural course of the business. 
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Think literally. xD
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I can agree with some of the message in there, though I would tone down on the harshness.
 
I think the MMO genre is just a lost cause at this point.  At least I have Bloodborne here right now, and Witcher 3 if I get tired of that.
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The thing is, I don't think anyone is disagreeing that there is a certain type of entitled gamer but I'll be damned if that word gets pegged only on casual players. Hardcore players can be incredibly entitled, selfish, stuck-up, and rude. Hardcore players are the ones that give games terrible reputation for toxic and volatile communities both online and in real life such as with fighting games. A lot of casual players literally do not care and just want to go into a game and enjoy it. A lot of hardcore players care about competition, about being better than others, and then rubbing it in. The point is, how a person plays does not dictate how they act. 
 
Has no one taken consideration into the fact that MAYBE so many MMOs suck as F2P is because they are not done right? Because they create random box generated items, because they're overpried, because they're pay-to-win. MMOs, by the very nature of needing a lot of people to function need to cater to a lot of people and a lot of different types of players. Obviously if Wildstar was the epitome of amazing gaming, it would not be in the hole right now. Obviously, if Wildstar's payment model was fantastic, it would not be in the hole right now. Wildstar has a great opportunity to be one of the first Western MMOs to create a balanced F2P model. But no, instead of discussing how that can be done, casuals are the bane of gaming as a whole. The lack of mature conversation since the announcement is incredibly devastating. If Wildstar becoming popular and inclusive is the worst thing to have ever happened to it then I'll gladly go down with the ship.
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If Wildstar becoming popular and inclusive is the worst thing to have ever happened to it then I'll gladly go down with the ship.
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Instanced leaderboard PVP is why I don't participate in any MMO I play, because of your first paragraph (and also because there is no GD point to meaningless PVP like that).
 
I also agree with your second paragraph, but at this point I fully expect to see boom boxes make a return on the cash shop, and eventually the game will fall prey to P2W because of whales who can't deal with high difficulty content.
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I get that, it's why I don't PvP in MMOs. That's also a huge reason of why I don't participate in fighting game competitions in real life.
 
Boom boxes I could see as an individual items but not the main focus of the shop. The types of RIGs I'm talking about are the main focus. For example, where a game will release a costume but it's only in one color and you only get to keep it for a 30 day period then no more costume. They will have the same exact costume but in a better color and permanent and with armor bonuses but it will be in a caspule that you have to gamble with and each capsule is like $7. And that's the standard for every type of item in the shop.  In my opinion, it only gets to the point where they have to cater to whales when the type of model I just mentioned is implemented. If Wildstar creates a fair cash shop, people will want to give them money. I wonder, why does not one ever talk about the success of Team Fortress 2? They have a GREAT F2P model that a lot of people like and they keep up the content and lore updates. Valve is literally rolling in money because of it and the players love to play the game. Plus competitive and casual players can both just get in and enjoy.
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Oh man, don't even get me started on equipment/costume/dye rentals, I really don't want to have nightmares.
 
The difference with TF2 is that cosmetic items mean nothing in a team shooter.  In an MMO, they are part of the core experience of an RPG and it becomes a pay wall for a lot of people for whom actually doing PVE or PVP is not the reason they play.
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It's literally video games. It is not real life. It is LITERALLY VIDEO GAMES. Aka entertainment, aka, free time, aka fun.
I can't even begin on the amount of cynicism, pretentiousness, and judgement going on in this post.
 
DLC has existed since the early 2000s, if even before then.
Shame on companies for making what people want to spend money on.
 
This sort of attitude needs to die. It's literally a game. No one has any right to tell other people how to enjoy them or that how other people enjoy playing their games is wrong or right.
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-snip-
 
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Yes, Wildstar will likely make a lot more money than they do now, but will it be the same Wildstar we have now? When the focus shifts to milking people for every cent they have, then it's a totally new game at that point. Retention and quality of content just aren't as important as making more stuff for people to throw money at.
 
Pride has nothing to do with it. Imagine you had a hobby you loved, and it was wonderful for many years, and then all of a sudden a swarm of people who never so much as touched your hobby suddenly want in -- but only if they change this, remove that, and change all this. So now, your hobby that you loved is some abomination of a thing that's hardly a shell of its former self. That thing you loved so much was forcefully ripped away from you by the power of *cupcake*ing money. That's why so many people get upset about F2P, DLC and all the horrible side effects that had on gaming.
 
You get so upset, but you didn't read my entire post, or the followup post. Go figure.
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Things I'm looking forward to:
New players to do things with.
A reduced barrier for returning players to come back and see what's new.
A more robust in-game economy with a wider availability of rare in-game drops that accompanies a larger population.
PvP as a way to level again.
PvP matches where I don't see the exact same teammates and opponents every time I queue.
The increased decor limit cap on housing!  :wub:
New costume and customization options that need to be good enough to get people to buy them. 
Ala carte purchasing so that I don't have to pay for things that don't appeal to me.
A shift in emphasis away from catering to the hardcore.
 
Things I'm not looking forward to:
A shift in emphasis towards catering to whales. On the plus side, at least they'll be earning their increased influence with cash.  :rolleyes:
The inevitable return of goldsellers, bots, and account stealers.
The first "Will People Spend More On A Digital Shirt Than They'll Pay For Their Real Shirt? Let's find out!" trial balloon, followed by all the nitwits who will in fact spend more on a virtual pretend shirt with no mass production or distribution expenses than they would on a real shirt that has both.
"Buy A Chance* At Something Really Swell!" gambleboxes. *Odds of winning something swell: 0.00001%.
Finding out how well those Megaservers really work.	
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As I understand it, the only way to get loyalty points is to buy boxes, CREDD, or sig sub time for money. You could theoretically still sell the CREDD for plat and retain the loyalty points for buying it.
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Rift has something like a loyalty point system that I forgot how it's called. You get points for each month you subscribe and for each time you buy credits for their Cash Shop.  It's logical. I hope Carbine increased their Intelligence points since their last level up to notice that it makes sense.
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
 
New costume and customization options that need to be good enough to get people to buy them. 
 
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If they don't allow people to accrue loyalty points for buying things in the cash shop, they're bigger fools than I ever would have guessed.
 
Everyone spending money on the game is supporting the game directly, and the cash isn't better simply because someone spent it on 30 days of signature service instead of on a Flashy Vanity Widget.
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Oh man, don't even get me started on equipment/costume/dye rentals, I really don't want to have nightmares.
 
The difference with TF2 is that cosmetic items mean nothing in a team shooter.  In an MMO, they are part of the core experience of an RPG and it becomes a pay wall for a lot of people for whom actually doing PVE or PVP is not the reason they play.
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They say you never get a second chance in life......but Wildstar just got one.
 
Looking forward to: good or bad it will be nice to see a bigger player base, Wildstar is now a great game but with company policy, lack of advertising over the past year, the move to F2P was the only way of making the public aware of the game.
 
Concerns: the launch of Wildstar was a mess, until recently we have been playing a beta ( not all launch bugs have been fixed ) going on past history I just hope they don't mess this up, and push the model out because they have to!
 
This is the last chance for Carbine to get it right, please please please Carbine don't balls this up.  	
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			I think there is ONE major thing that will make or break WS in the long run...I think F2P can keep WS on life-support no matter what they choose (with a sub the game would have died within the next quarter), but they need to focus 50% on PVP (and 50% on pve) IF they ever gonna be above-life-support-status	
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Good thing about F2P - wildstar might have a future.
 
Bad thing about F2P - they might not work as hard on content and shift more focus to selling things. This is bad as there is already very little to do outside of raids. It's shifted in the right direction in the last 2 drops but is not there yet.	
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Nothing new to add, I agree with most. Just wanted to say:
The first time I see a "10p for a Vet STL gold run" in global, I will feel very heavy in my heart.
Here's to hoping we can keep it at bay :unsure:	
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Good thing about F2P - wildstar might have a future.
 
Bad thing about F2P - they might not work as hard on content and shift more focus to selling things. This is bad as there is already very little to do outside of raids. It's shifted in the right direction in the last 2 drops but is not there yet.
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First step of that came in today's patch by getting the game ready for the cash shop....all mounts can now be used by level 3 and up
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Cosmetic items means ALOT to alot of players regardless of the game they play. What keeps ppl playing APB..a third person shooter?...Costumization is a big part of it. Ppl want to look cool no matter what they do and no matter what game they play. IF they get the option to do so! The fantastic thing about F2P games IS that you can buy your "coolness" for real money. Then you play the game for gear stats and beating challenging content.
 
I dont mind sexy outfits or bouncing boobs either in any game (I can play a game only because it has p**n in it tbo)...but I'm pretty vulgar by nature, but I understand that many ppl are not..(like my mother is not and I still love her:))
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Pro: the game I love will continue to exist.
 
Con: the bots and gold seller spam, RNGeezus take the wheel and save me from that launch-period madness.	
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If I had to choose something I'm looking forward to then I'd have to say that Wildstar will finally get a decent population.
 
There's a lot that I dread about a Freemium conversion.  The worst is toxic "freeloaders must be punished" attitude adopted by those with the means and the desire to spend money.  This comment from upstream is the perfect example:
 
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
... the population will grow, but it will only be filled with entitled little brats who can't pay for a game to play it, and will expect everything to be handed to them on a golden platter (not just silver!).
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	Yeah I'm starting to hate the attitude people are making towards the f2p'ers... please do not do that to people when they start to play.
 
It makes you seem more like an entitled little brat than them, by the way.	
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	Yeah I'm starting to hate the attitude people are making towards the f2p'ers... please do not do that to people when they start to play.
 
It makes you seem more like an entitled little brat than them, by the way.
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Things I'm looking forward to:
...
The increased decor limit cap on housing!  :wub:
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I cannot be optimistic about this. I have been in too many games that put all their cosmethic power on selling schoolgirl uniforms and tuxedos. 
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Hey now, I have adopted "Freebots" as the politically-correct and non-insulting nomenclature.
Freebots are friendly and willing to help! Freeloaders are lazy and disrespectful!
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{| class="blockquote"
 
 
 
 
I'm pretty sure they won't care what word people use if the concept around it boils down to "I don't want these [insert euphemism here] fouling up my perfect game by being in it".
 
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Yes, and I hate all of those terms. (Especially whale, who cares if i have money to spend, I earned it I'll damn well spend it on things I like which means video games)
 
We're all gamers, we all love playing video games, so why can't we all just enjoy video games and stop labelling people :p	
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Kind of like being called a "whale" because I have money to spend, huh? Or a "white knight" ... or a "fanboy" ... or a "dirty casual?"
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Kind of, except that I don't see people regularly advocating for whales, white knights, or fanboys to get out of their game because they're so fundamentally undeserving of being allowed into the game.
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Any of those become a problem when their money becomes the driving factor behind the type of content the game receives in the future to an unfair degree.
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			You can still be #hardcore and be a "whale" too :P	
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You can still be #hardcore and be a "whale" too :P
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My opinion is based solely on my experiences playing F2P games and games that have transitioned from P2P to F2P!
 
 
Pros:
- Huge Influx of players
- More revenue for Developers
- Low level area's become alive
- More players that would not previously give a game a shot... will now
- If I can't afford to pay one month or don't feel It is worth it I don't have to.
- Free continued contend
- Longer life for the game
- Roster boss won't be an issue so much
- More population for both factions
- Faster queues
 
 
Cons:
-In all instances I saw a decrease in friendliness on the forums and in game for at least the first 2 months.
- Often times the revenue gained is pumped back into the cash shop
- Raids do continue to come out but most of them are dumbed-down, feel unfinished/polished, or are remakes.
- Re-skinning, reselling, etc start to become an issue with a little time.
- Toxic players are very hard to remove from the game in a permanent way.
- Lots of players come... and lots of players leave.
- The pressure to pay a sub is felt pretty heavy in raiding. On top of that the stuff in the cash shop starts to feel necessary to a small extent ( flasks for increased renown,money, etc that stack with sub buffs and are much larger than the ones available in game )
- Lopsided populations become more and more lopsided due to friends, family, guild etc... Plus propaganda on the forums about x faction stands for this and has a low/high population
- Once the rush dies down the zones can start to feel empty again.
-(worst) After a taste of the cash from the cash shop, Developers start to do some dirty stuff with it like selling previous tiers of gear, etc. and/or They stop making things in game ( or severely limit ) like Mounts and then put them in Lottery lock boxes that they will sell to you for $3-$5 Each with an insanely low drop chance... Everything else you get out of those boxes would be garbage like boom boxes. 
- Expansions that are free often does not include the extra classes for free and paying for the expansion... prices can vary from 20$ for basic ( might as well not even buy it ) to unbelievably expensive ($125 for Rifts newest expansion with all of the perks... which most ppl did not care about other than the only amphibious mount that goes on land and water at max speed as well as UNLOCKING A GEAR SLOT OTHERWISE NOT OBTAINABLE WITHOUT A HUGE GRIND AT MAX LEVEL THAT TAKES OVER A MONTH )
 
 
these are my own personal likes and dislikes. I don't really care so much about the paying for bag space and toon slots etc. 
 
 	
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Well, that didn't take long to prove you wrong, did it, Yas. HAHAHAHA  ;)
 
I was told the same thing yesterday, twice. That "my kind of player" was ruining the entire experience and I don't deserve to play this game, because if I do, Carbine will cater to my wallet and ignore the #hardcores.
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Well, that didn't take long to prove you wrong, did it, Yas. HAHAHAHA  ;)
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Yes, and I hate all of those terms. (Especially whale, who cares if i have money to spend, I earned it I'll damn well spend it on things I like which means video games)
 
We're all gamers, we all love playing video games, so why can't we all just enjoy video games and stop labelling people :P
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Pro:
More people
 
 
Con:
More people
 
Cash shop, even if you are signature. All the things we get for our sub will be cut and put behind paywalls.
 
Watering down of content to cater to the new players that can't be bothered to learn how to play.	
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Hey everyone! Thanks so much for the awesome replies back to my question, I am planning on making a top 5 reasons why you should play Wildstar when it goes free to play video on my YouTube channel, than I will make a top 5 video of what to be worried about when Wildstar Goes Free To Play, so thank you so much fit your replies it had helped a lot. This is the latest video I made in my Wildstar series, celebrating its birthday enjoy! 
 
Wildstar: B4 F2P Episode 05 "Happy Birthday!!": https://youtu.be/Vc9-R0SIQdo	
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			No more ghost towns :)	
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{| class="blockquote"
Hey everyone! Thanks so much for the awesome replies back to my question, I am planning on making a top 5 reasons why you should play Wildstar when it goes free to play video on my YouTube channel, than I will make a top 5 video of what to be worried about when Wildstar Goes Free To Play, so thank you so much fit your replies it had helped a lot. This is the latest video I made in my Wildstar series, celebrating its birthday enjoy!
 
Wildstar: B4 F2P Episode 05 "Happy Birthday!!": https://youtu.be/Vc9-R0SIQdo
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{| class="blockquote"
Any of those become a problem when their money becomes the driving factor behind the type of content the game receives in the future to an unfair degree.
 
I liked the game just fine when it launched, and it hasn't really fallen out of my liking up until now, but I can already see the gleam in people's eyes about how stuff will get nerfed and generally changes I don't want to see happen that will make me not like the game in the end.
 
When the mob speaks (cumulatively with more money than I can assemble), the game stops being what I bought, and is ultimately the reason there is strife in multiplayer game communities.
 
That is not usually a problem in single player games.  I get what I pay for, and it stays that way forever.
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I just started today so I can't say much, so I'll have to pull my info from other MMO games:Pros
- More people! I remember my group of friends talking about trying the game out back when it was in beta, but in the end didn't go far with it with the game and subscription cost. We played FF14 for a couple months before everyone dropped it for mainly the same reason. Going F2P might convince them to give it a shot they were considering before. 
 
-As with the above, no worrying about paying per month. I didn't pick up the game til recently myself since it dropped in price. Mainly because I wanted to try it out to see if I wanna play it more in the future, and if my friends do decide to pick it up eventually, I won't get far behind them quickly like I usually do (I tend to level slowly in games like these). Well, if they stay on the same server anyways.
 
- More people = more content and more events, which are both fun and exciting.
 
Cons
 
- Not really a con, but I know everyone is worried about the Cash Shop. I believe if they do the cash shop right it'll be a good success though. Being able to buy items outright would be better vs. gacha boxes (or lock boxes) that give you a CHANCE of getting what you want. Those boxes are annoying and a waste when you don't get what you tried to pay for. 
-Bots, but they're gonna be in every MMO in existence that has free sign ups. They usually stay in the beginning town though, so once you get outta there they'll be gone.
 
-Usernames will get taken a LOT faster, so if there's that one special name on an alt you wanna get locked in, now is the time.I've seen some games go down with the F2P method (poor Bright Shadow), but as long as the people in charge know what they're doing, I think they can definitely use the influx of people to their advantage.	
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Pro- More players; this game has quite a lot of players from what i actually expected however a lot of them don't even chat at all and most are returning from what i have heard of from conversations ingame/threads
 
Cons- Idk not much i can think of for cons. i don't seen current subs going down once it goes f2p i mean it is already low	
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Hey everyone I just finished my video for the top 5 reasons to be excited for Wildstar to go free to play, hope you enjoy it!
 
Wildstar: Top 5 Reasons To Be Excited For Free To…: https://youtu.be/07YjX2rzvQg	
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{| class="blockquote"
Only one thing to do, really - be the community that teaches these new players how to get good, instead of the community telling them to stop whining and go play runescape.
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			Gotta agree. Wildstar reminds a lot of Monster Hunter in some ways on the difficulty front. It's unforgiving and punishing, either you learn it and get good, or you have people to help you out in certain sticky spots. I'm pretty sure that a lot of people will be willing to help, hopefully the new folks are willing to learn.	
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			If this game had gone buy 2 play than I would be concerned that all the good stuff will be in the cash shop and less content releases. But carbine has a focus on getting F2P players to convert into subs so its in their interest to create motivation to get subs.. Which im more concerned that the there may not be enough perks to get that motivation going. So in this case the cash shop is going to have to be good to get some money coming in. Plus they cant dump all the good stuff in the cash shop there still needs to be good stuff in the vender that cashes in on the loyalty points as well. Looking at it from different angles this might be one of the best F2P models out there when it gets released. The credd system will allow the F2P players to get subs and still be not spending money on it encouraging more credd sales. Subs will get more cash shop currencies as a drop so they can make purchases without spending a fortune on stuff... If carbine issues a replay badge system on raid lockouts theyll make a ton of money from that. Not trying to sound to optimistic here but it looks like this might be a winner for a F2P system since the current system seems like it will synergize very well with the new changes. Now if carbine could only do something with the achievement system to get goodies from doing achievements.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I think there is ONE major thing that will make or break WS in the long run...I think F2P can keep WS on life-support no matter what they choose (with a sub the game would have died within the next quarter), but they need to focus 50% on PVP (and 50% on pve) IF they ever gonna be above-life-support-status
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{| class="blockquote"
Yes, and I hate all of those terms. (Especially whale, who cares if i have money to spend, I earned it I'll damn well spend it on things I like which means video games)
 
We're all gamers, we all love playing video games, so why can't we all just enjoy video games and stop labelling people :P
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{| class="blockquote"
sylqt, not calling you a whale, but if you are, the video game term, not a female degatory term, I dont want to offend ;), want to sell some stuff from the store?
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			Thread closed.	
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