146723-wildstar-not-for-this-average-player-page-2

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SD:          17 out of 53 kills
Gloom:       28 out of 39 kills
MA:          23 out of 43 kills
Earth/Air:   3  out of 29 kills
Earth/Fire:  7  out of 32 kills
Earth/Logic: 6  out of 36 kills
Water/Air:   (first time up since F2P, will see stats at the end of the week)
Water/Fire:  1  out of 21 kills
Water/Logic: 12 out of 23 kills
Life/Air:    4  out of 21 kills
Life/Fire:   5  out of 27 kills
Life/Logic:  (hasn't yet been seen)
The notion that "... in DS one person's death will wipe the raid on pretty much every boss ..." is a gross misrepresentation of raiding in Wildstar.
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I tried Skullcano for the first time since the patch last night.
 
We killed Redmoon on the first try and 4/5 of the party were alive at the end. That's pretty unusual for me, especially since I was one of the four alive. I know they only changed the firey pools, but there are less of them, so they are more spread out and they take longer to spawn, so they are easier to avoid. The firey graphic for the pools is also smaller, so it fits inside the telegraph, giving a more accurate impression of the space you have.
 
As a result the "jump puzzle" bit is not so lethal now. All you need now is to handle the boss mechanics!
 
1. Take a CC break (clears the dot if you clip a laser and breaks his jump stun)
2. Take Interrupts, so you can stop barrage on P3, and possibly the jumps
3. At least the healer take a cleanse so that you can wipe dots from people who click lasers or face the terraformer
4. Watch the shots from the cannons, they knock you back
5. Do not face the terraformer when it overcharges, or you get a dot and blinded.
6. It is also useful to have a speed flask on (only 500 renown!)
7. Do NOT have "double tap to dash" on!!! This is a killer!
 
Mostly watch out for people who say "I can't take a cc break/cleanse/interrupt", as *they* are the ones causing a wipe. Almost none of hte fights in WS are DPS races. It's *all* about control and execution. Interrupts/cleanses/cc break/movement abilities are the difference between wipe and success when used in the right places!	
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I guess I'm not seeing how a solo instance, 4 events, 6 vet expeditions, 5 vet adventures, 4 daily zones, and 6 vet dungeons is not "varied". It's quite a bit of non-raiding content. And that's only even looking at PvE.
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Quality vs quantity
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And world bosses. And Vet Adventures. And actually 4 daily zones. And 4 events I can think of (lightspire, tree, starcomm, and r12). And a solo instance.
 
I guess I'm not seeing how a solo instance, 4 events, 6 vet expeditions, 5 vet adventures, 4 daily zones, and 6 vet dungeons is not "varied". It's quite a bit of non-raiding content. And that's only even looking at PvE.
 
And in fact, I don't think that everything points to "MUST RAID". People who want to raid certainly have that option, but there is loads to do without raiding.
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I think it's more the issue of needing secondary things to do at this point. As the OP in this thread pointed out, so beyond Vet Dungeons (which many find too hard a well), there's not much for them. So, take them out of the equation as many find some of them to be too hard or aren't interested for whatever reasons. Now, take Vet Adventures out too, no one runs them outside of contracts at all due to low reward from them. Dailies, most people do them then leave them or skip them entirely depending on their goal. Either way, they're not evergreen content, they're just busy work to delay maxing things out. Now that brings us to World Events. These too aren't done frequently, unless it's contract day. Finally, World Bosses, these have their issues right now with having farm the tokens to spawn them and take forever. Mostly people only do them for contracts.
 
So, that leaves Vet Expeditions, which I actually really enjoy but there's 6 of them...not a ton there. I can always get a group to do shiphands. I've never gotten a group for Wold Bosses, Adventures or World Events outside of someone wanting to fill a contract. That's a big issue.
 
How would adding in more things to do outside of these be bad at all? Yes, they're all there and maybe the real issue is they need to be looked at again to make them more intriguing for players that find other content too hard to overcome.  However, that shouldn't come at the expense for things that have been talked about and asked about for over a year now. Fishing, more tradeskills, fixing crafting, more professions, hoverboard racing, etc. All of these things should be in the game to give a variety of things to do and avoid burn out.
 
Having more to do means players will stick around to do them and maybe one day tackle the harder content. Without them, they hit the wall and go "I've done that other stuff, it was alright" and then they just might leave entirely. Bad thinking there.
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I just put together some information based on WildstarLogs execution rankings. This shows the guild's best parse for avoiding deaths and damage. The parse with the fewest deaths is always favored.
 
Here are 'Immortal' stats for each DS boss that is captured by WSL. This shows how many guilds have managed to kill that boss without deaths to date since F2P:
SD:          17 out of 53 kills
Gloom:       28 out of 39 kills
MA:          23 out of 43 kills
Earth/Air:   3  out of 29 kills
Earth/Fire:  7  out of 32 kills
Earth/Logic: 6  out of 36 kills
Water/Air:   (first time up since F2P, will see stats at the end of the week)
Water/Fire:  1  out of 21 kills
Water/Logic: 12 out of 23 kills
Life/Air:    4  out of 21 kills
Life/Fire:   5  out of 27 kills
Life/Logic:  (hasn't yet been seen)
The notion that "... in DS one person's death will wipe the raid on pretty much every boss ..." is a gross misrepresentation of raiding in Wildstar.
 
Don't get me wrong -- there is a strong emphasis on mechanical execution and staying alive. However, you do not need everyone alive to get kills.
 
Wildstar is kind of like the Mega-Man of MMOs. You will burn through a lot of pulls quickly during progression, and are aiming for a pull with clean enough execution that nets you the kill. I do wish they'd embrace the concept more (instant food buffs, closer graveyards, pot/cd/proc resets on death, buffs that persist through death, let raid leads instant reset fights, etc.). Shorter encounters and faster time to reset/pull pairs very well with challenging content.
 
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I think this really nails it. On the point of content and assets being wasted, one merely has to look at Warplots. No, it's not really a difficulty thing, but they were touted heavily and due to requirement sizes for teams, they were hardly used. They still see very little play time now, to the point the joke became "Have you SEEN Warplots?" No...no one has. How much effort went into making them? Countless hours, and it's shame because from what I've seen they look to be quite fun for PvP.
 
As for the same content having multiple levels of difficulty? They already do this in the game all over the place. There are regular and then veteran versions of dungeons, adventures, and shiphands (expeditions). Everything but the final raids seem to have this, why would they leave it off? Maybe they are actually waiting for a certain amount of people to clear it, as Yasfan points out, to put a lower difficulty version out there. It's entirely possible that's the case here, though, the devs could say something if that is the thinking here too.
 
I think another solution here is just flat out more varied content is needed at end game. Right now we have players hitting 50 within a few weeks, some within days or even hours, and when they get there? They're faced with not a lot of options of what to do. Everything points to, "MUST RAID!", well not everyone wants to (or can, as this thread implies and illustrates) so that's an issue. Yes, we have Vet Shiphands, Vet Dungeons, 2 daily zones, and contracts. That's really it. At first glance it seems a lot, but it's been quite a while since we really got anything new in those departments and some of it is just busy work that gets very repetitive after a bit doing them. In the case of Adventures, they're not run often due to lack of risk/reward (also pointed out by Yasfan). For new players, that may not be a huge deal right now as they likely haven't done it to death, but we've had shiphands for about a year now, dungeons since day one and the daily zones for about the same time.
 
The solution? Not sure, as development time can be limited and other things need attention, but Nexus is a vast world (or it should be anyway) and it's sad that most of it is just used to funnel people to one thing. Maybe it's time to provide things like more robust/varied crafting, more hobbies, more path levels/rewards, hoverboard racing, etc on a permanent basis, give people a reason to stay in the game for longer spans of time and enjoy the awesome world that's been created.
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I went through this with a guildie who wants to raid but who is nowhere near ready for it.  Let's look at it:
 
Super-casual solo content : Dailies
Solo/small group content:  Expeditions
Fun/easy group content:  Adventures
"Get carried till you get good" content:  Dungeons
Varreid content (day-to-day):  Contracts
Large group casual content:  Open world
 
Even then, there are many things to do at 50!  There are at least 5+ of each of them, so look, you get 30+ things to do at 50! 
 
All these people crying that there isn't enough content out there are obviously NOT looking for it.  I didn't even look at PvP!
 
What else is missing here?
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I went through this with a guildie who wants to raid but who is nowhere near ready for it.  Let's look at it:
 
Super-casual solo content : Dailies
Solo/small group content:  Expeditions
Fun/easy group content:  Adventures
"Get carried till you get good" content:  Dungeons
Varreid content (day-to-day):  Contracts
Large group casual content:  Open world
 
Even then, there are many things to do at 50!  There are at least 5+ of each of them, so look, you get 30+ things to do at 50! 
 
All these people crying that there isn't enough content out there are obviously NOT looking for it.  I didn't even look at PvP!
 
What else is missing here?
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usually MMOs and repetitive go hand in hand. just sayin............. Name one, literally one MMO that is not repetitive or grindy..........
 
So to complain about that specific issue is to complain about MMOS period and the resolution to that is to play console single player games. And even then it will get repetitive when you play the game over cause you've beaten it already. So in the end the solution is for you to get over content being repetitive because frankly Wildstar has done a great job of doing what they can to minimize the repetitiveness I.E. council fight, pairs fights. *cough changes that make you have to relearn/rerune/rerotation/restat your character every couple of months *cough
 
On the other side, besides just saying you have a problem with the repetitiveness of MMOS, What would be your solution to that problem?
 
Detailed solution please, not just something along the lines of add more content blah blah blah. Because if your response is a good one it could change the entirety of all MMOs current and future and possibly make you alot of money. I know for myself ive put in a lot of thought thinking about this exact thing and i have come up with exactly squat.........
			
				
	Edited November 15, 2015 by Techr	
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usually MMOs and repetitive go hand in hand. just sayin............. Name one, literally one MMO that is not repetitive or grindy..........
 
So to complain about that specific issue is to complain about MMOS period and the resolution to that is to play console single player games. And even then it will get repetitive when you play the game over cause you've beaten it already. So in the end the solution is for you to get over content being repetitive because frankly Wildstar has done a great job of doing what they can to minimize the repetitiveness I.E. council fight, pairs fights. *cough changes that make you have to relearn/rerune/rerotation/restat your character every couple of months *cough
 
On the other side, besides just saying you have a problem with the repetitiveness of MMOS, What would be your solution to that problem?
 
Detailed solution please, not just something along the lines of add more content blah blah blah. Because if your response is a good one it could change the entirety of all MMOs current and future and possibly make you alot of money. I know for myself ive put in a lot of thought thinking about this exact thing and i have come up with exactly squat.........
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There's a real sense of 'been there, done that, got the t-shirt, poured way to much time down the MMO drain" knocking around the genre these days. Every MMO just wants to mimic the competition, play it safe and to suck up as much player time as possible so they have exclusive access to the player's spare time and wallets. Everything is geared to keeping rears on seats and noses pressed to some grind or other for as long as possible, then offering cash shop bypasses. The day that MMOs started marketing "Pay Not To Play" (which takes various forms from instant level capped characters to all sorts of boosts and speed ups) is the day the genre started to die from the inside out. It'll be a long slow death, but it'll happen unless something changes.
 
Players need to feel they are part of a living breathing world and community. That logging in matters and is worth doing. Not because they need to log in to be a slave to the dailies. Not because they need to be eligible for their daily login rewards. Not because their raid lockout timer has reset. Not because they need to see what the latest re-skin is in the cash shop. But because a MMO is a fun place to be, with a community, friends, rivals, events, things changing. Not just an alternative digital grind to the 9-5 grind they already do IRL.
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I'm a somewhat average player, or well a perhaps casual player. I just reached max level and got tons of things to do.
I leveled up in pvp so got most of the zones to complete. And if dailies give housing rewards I got them to do as well. Add to that gearing up in pvp and also work on my big housing project. And it's only on one char, and I haven't added instanced pve content that I don't see myself very interested in doing or having time to do.
This is with a couple of hours to play during the week and a bit more during weekends, and I can see myself having stuff to do for at least 6 months. Housing itself is a loong project, and any alt with additional housing plot just adds up to that =) Add to that events popping up every now and then, soon winter event coming as well. 
I can only imagine, if you played regulary from official p2p launch, or got much spare time for gaming perhaps you already done most of the content. In that case, from what I've learnt, it's good to be a game jumper and just play something else in wait for content patches. If you just login and find yourself jumping around in capital it's about time to do something else... I learnt it from my days in WoW.
But personally, as a average/casual player that joined in just before f2p... I'm not running content dry for a looong time.	
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I'm a somewhat average player, or well a perhaps casual player. I just reached max level and got tons of things to do.
I leveled up in pvp so got most of the zones to complete. And if dailies give housing rewards I got them to do as well. Add to that gearing up in pvp and also work on my big housing project. And it's only on one char, and I haven't added instanced pve content that I don't see myself very interested in doing or having time to do.
This is with a couple of hours to play during the week and a bit more during weekends, and I can see myself having stuff to do for at least 6 months. Housing itself is a loong project, and any alt with additional housing plot just adds up to that =) Add to that events popping up every now and then, soon winter event coming as well. 
I can only imagine, if you played regulary from official p2p launch, or got much spare time for gaming perhaps you already done most of the content. In that case, from what I've learnt, it's good to be a game jumper and just play something else in wait for content patches. If you just login and find yourself jumping around in capital it's about time to do something else... I learnt it from my days in WoW.
But personally, as a average/casual player that joined in just before f2p... I'm not running content dry for a looong time.
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Could not agree more with this statement!
 
I've been saying this for a long time, why the hell make such a beautiful world to level in and then at max level, you throw it away, because all your content is instanced based.  Not even that it's all obtainable by menus.  SO you can just literally sit in your city or house and pop up your menu and go from there.  You don't even need to touch the open world once you're 50.
 
Honestly, these theme park mmo's feel more and more like Moba's than MMO's.
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I went over some of this another reply, but I'll break it down a bit more as I'm not totally sleep deprived. I should note that I've been around since the original game launch, so this may not apply for everyone that came in with the Reloaded launch, but some of it eventually will. That said, it's something to think about because soon those players that stick around will be facing the same situations eventually.
 
There IS a lot to do, however a lot of it is very repetitive after a while or no one does it for some reason or another.
 
Dailies - After you run them a while, it's the same thing over and over. You can only do them so much before you're bored with it.
            - They have to keep adding more daily zones because it's not "evergreen content" as it tires out.
            - Some people skip them entirely in favor of PvP for amp/ability points, unless they want the decor from the reputation or currency grind.
Contracts - I still do them, but they're more a checklist than anything else at this point, many others likely are in the same boat too here.
                  - There's not a ton of things to do via the rotations in each category before they repeat. After a while? Just grinding at them.
                  - If anyone is curious, I'll go do some research to see just how the rotations change over a week.
Expeditions - Lots of fun but limited in number, though I still run them quite a bit because fun!
                     - Love these things, great solo and great fun with a group!
                     - Looking forward to new ones coming too!
Adventures - Almost no one runs them anymore because the reward for doing them isn't that great and getting a group is kind of a chore.
                      - I love the concept of them, but why does no one do them? Something is up with that and needs addressed.
Dungeons - Some people have issues with them, carrying is a thing but many don't get good that way. They may just get carried, get gear and never come back to them too (highly likely). Some will move further to Raiding too.
                   - I've been around a while and still have trouble, I'll get through them one day, but many find them to be a brick wall for several reasons.
                   - Many do love them, and that's awesome, not everyone will though.
Raiding - Will only appeal a smaller fraction of the games population as a whole.
              - From what I know it's done very well and those that do it like it a lot!
Open World - once you're at 50 and cleared the zones...what open world? World Bosses? World Events? Both of these are only really done on contract days mostly, at least from what I've seen.
PVP - Not everyone likes PvP, I find it fun to hop in on a few BGs once in a while but it's not super often since I'm not a huge fan of it, many others aren't either. For those that are? Great!
 
The issue with Dailies and Contracts can be looked at as "busy work" after a bit. With Dailies, that's the nature of them and again, they keep adding more since people abandon them. Some of it also is meant to get people to run some of the content, in the case of Contracts, which shows that people aren't doing it normally. Why not? Is it a fun factor thing or just not rewarding enough or something else? From a purely analytic standpoint, it looks like a bandaid to a problem. Perhaps it's something they did to buy time while thinking of ways to make them more rewarding, I'm not sure.
 
Much of this isn't exclusive to Wildstar either, many MMOs run into these issues as people burn through content way faster than it comes out. That also means that secondary things are all the more important to keep people around and interested in the world. You can see it in other games, where people come back for patches/drops and then leave once they're done. To put it simply, they need to start thinking like Disney and not Six Flags. Keeping players enganged and invested in the world is key, you don't want them leaving for something else no matter what the reason is. The more you offer? The more people stay, and ultimately, spend more money.
 
So, as for the question about other content? That's tricky, and everyone has to think out of the box a bit here and look at what those secondary systems could be. Those things can include, but aren't limited to; more hobbies, more tradeskills, permanent hoverboarding, things no one has thought of yet, etc. I know some people who log in to play other games just for fishing! I know, sound crazy but they enjoy the world and that activity offered. Permanent hoverboarding in neutral zones that's treated like PvP (maybe with leaderboards, etc) could be HUGE and many could play the game just for that. However both of those are viable things and have meaning for players. They can also be a gateway. Maybe one day the super fisherman or racer may decide "I wanna see the rest" and then go do it. Maybe someone that's been dungeon crawling for months will go "I wanna see what this other stuff is" and so on.
 
Anyway, the point is that people who feel like the OP does here may feel that there isn't enough to do outside of Raiding because they've done the other stuff and don't see the value in it after awhile. There's probably many who do feel that way, so why not widen the offerings a bit?
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Side note - we have a new guildie who hit 50 like two weeks ago.  She learned her class, got advice from guild members how to play, got her amps and abilities, did decent in her first ga, and tanks dungeons whenever she cans.  There are a lot of people out there who can do these things relatively quickly.  It just requires SOME effort.
 
I'm quite sure most people can do it if they try :D	
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I returned today...and while I got back into it rather quickly I was reminded about the VERY unforgiving combat on this game. I was in a vet Dungeon (stormtallon)..a Dungeon i have done 50+ times on vet. And we died and died,,,,,we could not pass the whirlwind boss.
 
I mean....how do we expect ppl to stay around when NOTHING in this game is a Nice little chill for a few hours before bedtime. Every fight that has a VALID reward (rewards below vet Dungeon are utter crap and you know it) is so hard that you draid yourself completely after 1 Dungeon....IF you ever are able to Complete it.
 
I come from mythic Dungeons in wow these days...EPIC fun those Things are..hard, but it is never about those red teles....its about game mechanics and dps checkes etc..
 
In wildstar only ONE thing matter...the RED telegraph...!!! Its kinda tunnelvisionlike....there are no other mechanic than to Dodge those red Things..thats all we do.. :(
 
and yes..many ppl do have twitch gaming skills...i know many ppl that are very skilled at Arcade games...but MOST ppl I know are not...and most ppl that E.g. have fun in wow and also are relatively good at wow progression raiding (I'm not talking mythic) are not particulary skilled in twitch gaming either...
 
I think Wildstar problem is...ALL content Worth doing (for reward) is as hard as wow's mythic raiding....and how many % Plays wow mythic raiding? 1% maybe?
			
				
	Edited November 15, 2015 by styrm	
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I returned today...and while I got back into it rather quickly I was reminded about the VERY unforgiving combat on this game. I was in a vet Dungeon (stormtallon)..a Dungeon i have done 50+ times on vet. And we died and died,,,,,we could not pass the whirlwind boss.
 
I mean....how do we expect ppl to stay around when NOTHING in this game is a Nice little chill for a few hours before bedtime. Every fight that has a VALID reward (rewards below vet Dungeon are utter crap and you know it) is so hard that you draid yourself completely after 1 Dungeon....IF you ever are able to Complete it.
 
I come from mythic Dungeons in wow these days...EPIC fun those Things are..hard, but it is never about those red teles....its about game mechanics and dps checkes etc..
 
In wildstar only ONE thing matter...the RED telegraph...!!! Its kinda tunnelvisionlike....there are no other mechanic than to Dodge those red Things..thats all we do.. :(
 
and yes..many ppl do have twitch gaming skills...i know many ppl that are very skilled at Arcade games...but MOST ppl I know are not...and most ppl that E.g. have fun in wow and also are relatively good at wow progression raiding (I'm not talking mythic) are not particulary skilled in twitch gaming either...
 
I think Wildstar problem is...ALL content Worth doing (for reward) is as hard as wow's mythic raiding....and how many % Plays wow mythic raiding? 1% maybe?
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And dailies and contracts are alright, but they're almost all one variation or another of "Go. Now. Kill Skulz." type missions. 
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Lets compare Wildstar's Endgame to other games:This is endgame bullet hell like encounter in FFhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HRyVUHgjak&feature=youtu.bestill in comparison it's slow and ramps up over time. This is also considered raid group content (extreme trials) and while in difficulty in marks under the most difficult savage raid, it's designed to be done with your static to help you with raiding. 
 
Now this is fairly casual content. This is a 4 man dungeon that used to be end game material just a couple of weeks ago. If you're level 60, raiding or not, you can queue up and clear it quite easily (the video only includes bosses):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXOpBJ3IoBICasual content and raiding content go hand in hand. Casual content nets you weekly tomes that you can exchange for iLvl 200 gear, raiding grants you iLvl 210 gear and upgrade materials to turn your iLvl 200 gear to iLvl 210. Meaning that a casual solo player that will be queueing to do dungeons will be doing significantly easier encounters, but won't be lagging that much behind in terms of iLvl. In Wildstar contracts net you iLvl 100 gear. However you have to fill the contract gouge up. Running adventures in themselves, if there's no contract for them, will not in any way help you with your gear struggles. On top of that dungeons are fairly fast, difficult and hardcore. Like I've shown above, the above content is not called "raids" either. And everyone is aware that it's not something that you casually queue for. It's progression content outside of raids and everyone is aware of it. However they're not using your regular naming convention such as "dungeon".Meaning that perhaps it would be best for Wildstar if dungeons got renamed and were seen as progression content, instead of casual content as they're much harder than your average MMO dungeon? And perhaps veteran adventures and expeditions could have dailies attached to them that would help you get far better gear than what they grant right now? Because contracts are random and if content is not attached to a contract as content for most players is quite obsolete, nobody runs it at random. As regards to other content that Wildstar could make to make this game more appealing to everyone, it's quite easy. People tend to like to zerg enemies and events for example. Almost every MMO in existence, instead of having static dailies have zerg zones. For FFXIV it's the Diadem:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6LKRkHF9xAyou enter trough duty finder with a group of 8 into a zone shared with everyone else that enters it. You kill stuff for loot. Some people enter as gathering parties and gather materials that can only be found there. Most groups go to specific islands and just kill enemies in a giant group together for gear. If the gear is not good for you, you can exchange it for tokens that you can use to buy expensive materia (the equivalent of runes), crafting materials that are hard to get and fluff items such as mounts. In World of Warcraft it's the Timeless Isle (at least it used to be)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6cVdjSlmvApeople would go there to do dailies, kill rare enemies that spawn fairly often in order to get gear and run around collecting chests. In Guild Wars 2 it's Silverwastes. It's a place where you go in order to farm chests and zerg the never ending main zone event:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrM8EmU8TMgthere's a zone fairly close to it in Wildstar, however zone event spawns every 2 hours and is completed in 8 minutes, meaning that there's little reason to stick around there for prolonged periods of time.  To sum up:in order for all content to stay viable, your casual content can not lag in iLvls that far behind raid content, or else the progression is streamlined and not parallel. What happens when you have streamlined linear progression is that earlier parts of it are no longer revisited once you progress further.People like zerging in the open world. They like activities that let you stay in a zone with other people, without absolutely having to organize or group with them. Wildstar comes close to it, but misses the mark as no open world content is jump in-jump out, rather it's on a very long cooldown, but takes minutes to complete, making people not stick around.  
The game could also use an alternative way to progress that is not 20 man raids. Veteran dungeons are too hard for your average Joe, meaning that they could be it. However naming convention should probably be changed.
			
				
	Edited November 16, 2015 by mirta000	
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I agree this is a good point, and there is a fair amount of "burnout" on the casual content.  It's still a lot of content to burn through.
 
Even yesterday we did a guild group for malgrave trail - cause i wanted my pathfinder title :3  granted the fighting was super easy at our gear level, but taking a new path was at least well... new!  It was a very chill experince, but mostly because we weren't trying to get gold.  Gold malgrave is still obnoxious (but since amps and abilities are so cheap, does anyone care?  I don't anymore).
 
It's still a ton of stuff.
 
However, say you HAVE done all the more casual content and you're burned out on everything but dungeons and raiding.  By now, after putting many, many hours into the game, haven't you found people to play with?  Haven't you like... figured out your class/spec and rotation?  You should have enough plat to rune your gear, so you SHOULD be ready to do dungeons, even if it's a group of you and your ilv 78 buddies.
 
If you put in the many hours to burn through everything and you are still not any good - well, at some point it's a lack of effort on your part, right?
 
And I'm not saying "good" as in "DS raider" kind of good, i saying like "don't be an idiot" good.  Don't stand in obvious telegraphs and interrupt spells kind of good.   IF you can do those two basic things, most dungeon encounters - especially if we are talking STL and KV - are easy.
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			The crying in this thread	
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The crying in this thread
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And what is your solution then? Please give a detailed answer because "more raids" or "get good" are not viable nor tangible responses.
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			Find the trick. In mordechai, jump. Keep jumping during the lasers. U can jump over lave pits n not get slowed, may take some damage. If u do get caught, cc break. Try another class too. Some classes are easier. After playing a warrior and being melee, than switching to range, first thought was omg, how easy it was too dodge mechanics. Don't give up, learn the tricks	
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Its just a matter of practice. However heres the thing if you are dps you don't get much practice becoz the q's don't pop as often. And groups that continually wipe disband.
 
Wildstar dungeon are awesome, and veteran dungeons are difficult. Again I would say keep pugging along. You will get good tanks and healers that will teach you the mechanics and rather than give up they will guide you, for how ever long it takes.
 
Another suggestion is to do them in normal mode where your repairs are much cheaper, conquer first in normal then move on to vet.	
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NOTHING in this game is a Nice little chill for a few hours before bedtime. Every fight that has a VALID reward (rewards below vet Dungeon are utter crap and you know it) is so hard that you draid yourself completely after 1 Dungeon....IF you ever are able to Complete it.
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Well, I can understand that some feel they shouldn't need to jump games, that one mmo should provide it all at all times.
Only time I personally experienced this was in vanilla Rift when content was thrown at you so very few was able to keep up. Trion didn't get rewarded enough for it, and times changed.
I would also cut Carbine some slack, the game was in a horrible state before f2p in financial terms and they need the money and time to turn it around. We see next to no marketing for the game, is it because there is no money for it? It might be. I'm sure they have lots of ideas they want to implement, and I'm sure stuff will come. Atm the focus should be trying to reach out to new players, and it's perhaps not doing as well as it should. But the base game is very good atm, and lots of stuff for the new players to go through. They don't really need to rush out new content at this point, and in all honesty they should probably try to prioritize getting more marketing, or at least get the game on steam that if I remember correctly there was some plans for. 
Sure, there should probably be some larger content patch within the next upcoming months but they don't need it today, and not this year with winter event planned. 
We can also cross our fingers that f2p made their finances look better, because the more money they get the more they can work and improve the game. I'm pretty sure they aren't releasing more content because they don't want to, and if money starts rolling in better than before f2p I can also imagine more content coming to the game. 	
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Well, I can understand that some feel they shouldn't need to jump games, that one mmo should provide it all at all times.
Only time I personally experienced this was in vanilla Rift when content was thrown at you so very few was able to keep up. Trion didn't get rewarded enough for it, and times changed.
I would also cut Carbine some slack, the game was in a horrible state before f2p in financial terms and they need the money and time to turn it around. We see next to no marketing for the game, is it because there is no money for it? It might be. I'm sure they have lots of ideas they want to implement, and I'm sure stuff will come. Atm the focus should be trying to reach out to new players, and it's perhaps not doing as well as it should. But the base game is very good atm, and lots of stuff for the new players to go through. They don't really need to rush out new content at this point, and in all honesty they should probably try to prioritize getting more marketing, or at least get the game on steam that if I remember correctly there was some plans for. 
Sure, there should probably be some larger content patch within the next upcoming months but they don't need it today, and not this year with winter event planned. 
We can also cross our fingers that f2p made their finances look better, because the more money they get the more they can work and improve the game. I'm pretty sure they aren't releasing more content because they don't want to, and if money starts rolling in better than before f2p I can also imagine more content coming to the game. 
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get good -> raids -> more raids -> more raids
otherwise WS can rip, i dont care for cosmetics or rp story zones
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Background: I'm a lifelong gamer married 40s no kids...lots of time and a fair amount of disposable income to spend on gaming. I've been playing MMOs for over a decade, though I don't claim to be a veteran or even of above average skill I have participated successfully in many MMO endgame activities (from raiding to group dailies and everything in between).
 
Opinion: WildStar is a beautiful game, I love the graphics, I love the lore, I freaking adore the character models and I really enjoyed the challenge of leveling as it required a lot more attention than in other games. Got to 50, found a great raiding guild to give me some guidance since I knew entering endgame would be more difficult than in other games I've played. They showed me the ropes, helped me gear up and got me attuned, they even brought me along for the first boss in GA that very same day to unlock the raid gear vendor for me and help me further gear up. My ilvl being 84 and fully runed they encourage me to start queueing for vet dungeons for more practice, glory, gear and runes...fair enough. I found the vet dungeons teeth gnashingly hard but I struggled through for as long as the groups would have me, usually bowing out after my death would wipe them on a boss the third or fourth time. After three separate 2 hour attempts on the last boss of Skullcano with three different groups, including a guildie group, I'm left with the realization I simply don't possess the hand/eye coordination or reflexes to participate in WildStar's endgame. I'm not crying or ranting, this is a simple realization of the limits of my playing ability. However, if a fairly average player like myself who is no noob when it comes to games of this sort can't hack it, I fear for the future of this game given who it's publisher is.
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The thing is, people hit that wall. Maybe they try for a couple of nights a week for a month and don't get through. Now, they could be thinking, "Why am I wasting the time I get to play just getting frustrated?" and then they move on, or start logging in less and less. On the flipside, you'll run into people that have enjoyed the game but then have zero interest in the Dungeons or Raids at all. Some of them may even complete all the Dungeons and then go "Well, that was nice" and then go to look for other things which aren't there. I, for an example, don't know if I'll ever raid in this game, maybe a couple times to see it but I don't know if my schedule will ever allow for it really. Sure, I haven't completed every Vet Dungeon yet, but I am working towards it! After I finish them? I dunno, I may only go once in a while.
 
Again, more content at various difficulty levels is NOT bad. Maybe one day the player that crawls them will tackle the harder stuff, but maybe they just want to have fun and relax until they want to, have the ability to, or even just the time to. That's totally cool too, right? No one says Dungeon Crawlers or Raiders shouldn't have their fun, why limit the other people? Again, the more people playing, the more fun for everyone and, ultimately, the longer the game sticks around. Right now, Wildstar doesn't offer enough content which feels worth it to players at lower ability levels. Again, see the whole thing about Adventures not being run and the World Boss situation right now. Both of those are meant to fill those niches somewhat, yet fall way short. On one hand you have low reward content which gets run the most efficient way possible, turning it into a "I just want that title" or a "Let's just get it over with" affair, when it's run at all. Then you have the other which is done in about 10 seconds and can be a total lag fest with how many are doing it. Not exactly enthralling there at all in either case.
 
I get what you're saying though, people should eventually get it (many likely will too) and they should be able to progress past points where they get stuck. However, I can't help think that if many are having issues there's something else going on too. I'm not sure what that is, maybe some are just too used to the mechanics from other games and it's too hard to overcome? Maybe lack of interest is another? Who knows, it's hard to really know what's going on there. I saw one person in this thread saying it took someone 6 months not to die in a Dungeon. Kudos to them for sticking it out, but maybe that's a sign too? Again, I dunno.
 
Either way, my main point and question still stands. Why aren't secondary systems in this game to fill these niches?. The more people have to do in the world, the better. Limiting such means that it's turning into "progression or bust" and while that should be the ultimate goal, it shouldn't be the only thing there is to do as some may not care about that. Which, if we're all honest, is what Wildstar is right now.
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I mean, i certainly see your point here.
 
My thought is, if you are truly burnt out on all the more casual content (and there is a good amount of it) and you can't dodge or interrupt spells - at some point this is just not learning.  You don't have to do a perfect rotation or do great dps or even have great gear, but when there is a big obvious telegraph and a big obvious cast bar you have to hit crush or arcane shock or something.  I don't know if i'm myopic considering i'm in a DS guild where this is natural, but it seems to me it's really not that hard?  And if you die a few times you can learn, right?
 
I think the point i'm making is there are many people in our raid that used to be considered bad - but now they aren't.  People can certainly improve their skills.  I see it every day.
 
True though, I like instnace worldboss content (that would be much more fun) and it would be cool to run adventures for better rewards.  I ran a malgrave trail to get my pathfinder title - which was a nice, chill change of pace from raiding.  (I even asked LFG for yasfan lol), but what did we get out of it?  absolutely nothing.  Some cool rewards (thinking decor and costumes here) would make it worth running.
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Now, for the actual things? Yeah, I've run Dungeons with people who are doing DS and even GA and they've run them so often that many times they just don't get how it would be hard. I've made say "I don't get what's so hard about this? I run this all the time and we fly through!", etc. Well, duh, you have gear that lets you treat this stuff like normal dungeons or expeditions, of course it's easy! Maybe personally I haven't found the right people to run with, but I'm probably not alone in running into that issue at all. Having gear that makes stuff trivial due to be overpowered does skew the mentality a bit.
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Oh good. Thank you. It is now safe to completely ignore ANYTHING this poster has to say.
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You posted an opinion and so did I.
 
Ain't it wonderful?	
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{| class="blockquote"
Oh good. Thank you. It is now safe to completely ignore ANYTHING this poster has to say.
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He started a thread about wanting more raids and a few of us explained why it won't happen like he wants.
 
He didn't get it, he didn't get it at all.
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Gear is part of it but so is practice.  Took me about eight runs of Skullcano to not die on Mordechai.  Of course I found a great group that helped drag me through it enough so I could learn it.  Heck I even tank it now.
 
Good on you guys.  Aetheros killed my guild at launch.  I -still- get hit by those bloody tornadoes.  Stormtalon can be painful if the group doesn't have enough dps.  Crafting exceptional superb runes is really affordable now and those should be better than good enough.  The trick is getting the gear that you can slot them.  Running through the contract meter three or four times should cover most if not all of them.
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nobody likes seeing a gamer get old....rather harsh reality moment when you realize solitaire online is exactly your speed of game but thinking "how the hell do you pvp?"	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
nobody likes seeing a gamer get old....rather harsh reality moment when you realize solitaire online is exactly your speed of game but thinking "how the hell do you pvp?"
 
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Yep, that's the goal! Die, learn, repeat, conquer! I come from games where death is a thing often (Monster Hunter). You learn the fights, you get better, you move onto the next challenge. The entire game is literally a string of raid bosses and farming for gear across large zones. Love it to death too. That said, it's mostly a SP game there, though you can play with 3 others in a hunt too for some of them. MMOs just aren't set up like that, though the mentality is the same in some regards I suppose. As for getting better? Working on it! My other issue is, I don't know many raid groups that run at 2-6am EST. So, not being 100% sure I can even run that content reliably has made me take a far more slow approach to things. After all, it'll be there when I'm good to go, right? That's just a personal anecdote there and may shed some light on where my comments are coming from.
 
Now, for the actual things? Yeah, I've run Dungeons with people who are doing DS and even GA and they've run them so often that many times they just don't get how it would be hard. I've made say "I don't get what's so hard about this? I run this all the time and we fly through!", etc. Well, duh, you have gear that lets you treat this stuff like normal dungeons or expeditions, of course it's easy! Maybe personally I haven't found the right people to run with, but I'm probably not alone in running into that issue at all. Having gear that makes stuff trivial due to be overpowered does skew the mentality a bit.
 
It's not about the dodging, sometimes it literally isn't being quick enough for some things too. I remember running a group on STL, no problems at all getting up to the end and then we kept wiping over and over to the point of gear breaking, that's a long time! I don't know what we were doing wrong but everyone was avoiding things as they should, just didn't have the power output. A few of the group weren't runed properly, etc, so they learned something but no one noticed until then because it was a cake walk until the final boss. Why is that even possible? It seemed very odd that no one noticed until then too actually. Either way, it was about 2 hours or so there and our tank was awesome sticking it out with us!
 
If learning is taking 2-4 hours in a single Dungeon that's kind of crazy, and for many can be very much a deterrent to running the content at all. Not to mention you get punished by learning with repair costs too. Maybe this is why the other things like Adventures, instanced World Bosses and other mechanics should be involved in this game and made way more rewarding than they are. Another idea, actually incentivize people doing Normal dungeons to learn them? Right now most people are overgeared so the rewards aren't worth it or they can't find a group to run them at all. Something needs fixing there too as it would be a good place to learn some as well.
 
That said, I used to run challenges constantly because they were fun and the rewards could be great, now? Not fun at all, totally destroyed that concept for no reason that I can think of at all. The reward was kind of random there, but you could keep at them, now? I'm not even sure their purpose really other than "another thing". I keep thinking that maybe every zone should have a mini Raid/Dungeon that is required to complete it. Yes, that's some old school mentality there, but if normal dungeons aren't being run or passed over because they're not worth it or people can't find a group, perhaps it's something that is needed? I dunno.
 
Again, it's not so much "more content" but it's rewarding and fun content. There's tons of things Wildstar right now that offer little in the way of any kind of reward for doing it. Sure, it could be fun to do (I love me some Vet Frag Zero and Space Madness) but more would find doing it over and over again if it was more rewarding and less RNG maybe? I dunno...it's tough one. For that aren't interested, or their schedules/lives don't allow, in raiding, having these other things is crucial right now and they're just not there.
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Wildstar was developed with the idea of player's doing content in a different order then many are doing it once they hit 50. It's actually supposed to be (1) Daily quest zones (2) Veteran Expeditions (3) Veteran Adventures (4) Veteran Dungeons (5) Raids. The Ultimate Protogames quest given out at 50 is part of the confusion. Brett Scheinert (lead design) explained this on the live stream from 11/13/2015 (around 35:00) http://www.twitch.tv/wildstar/v/25595609 .
 
Carbine is currently developing new content to lead level 50 player's to progress in that order. They're also adding bonuses for player's who run this content with new player's that haven't yet completed it. That's why many are having a hard time IMO. Player's are going straight from regular Dungeons to Veteran Dungeons at 50. 
			
				
	Edited November 22, 2015 by Equa1ity	
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{| class="blockquote"
Wildstar was developed with the idea of player's doing content in a different order then many are doing it once they hit 50. It's actually supposed to be (1) Daily quest zones (2) Veteran Expeditions (3) Veteran Adventures (4) Veteran Dungeons (5) Raids. The Ultimate Protogames quest given out at 50 is part of the confusion. Brett Scheinert (lead design) explained this on the live stream from 11/13/2015 (around 35:00) http://www.twitch.tv/wildstar/v/25595609 .
 
Carbine is currently developing new content to lead level 50 player's to progress in that order. They're also adding bonuses for player's who run this content with new player's that haven't yet completed it. That's why many are having a hard time IMO. Player's are going straight from regular Dungeons to Veteran Dungeons at 50. 
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{| class="blockquote"
Wildstar was developed with the idea of player's doing content in a different order then many are doing it once they hit 50. It's actually supposed to be (1) Daily quest zones (2) Veteran Expeditions (3) Veteran Adventures (4) Veteran Dungeons (5) Raids. The Ultimate Protogames quest given out at 50 is part of the confusion. Brett Scheinert (lead design) explained this on the live stream from 11/13/2015 (around 35:00) http://www.twitch.tv/wildstar/v/25595609 .
 
Carbine is currently developing new content to lead level 50 player's to progress in that order. They're also adding bonuses for player's who run this content with new player's that haven't yet completed it. That's why many are having a hard time IMO. Player's are going straight from regular Dungeons to Veteran Dungeons at 50. 
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Hrm.  I'm not convinced that the problem is that players aren't doing the content in the correct order, it's that there are too many stepping stones involved.  The gearing curve is too deep.  Like Kitsune pointed out you can skip the Shiphand and Adventure step if -- and this is important -- you gear up through contracts and world bosses (or get twinked through BoE's) and -- also very important -- fill the rune slots with reasonably correct runes.
 
The problem is that Veteran Adventures simply aren't rewarding enough for the level of effort required to get through them.  Malgrave Trail needs a rethink.  Lose the attitude about it being the highest level Adventure.  It's not hard it's a masochistic exercise in RNG.  Fix that and the Adventure Ability Tier unlock becomes more attractive.
 
Runes are your own darn fault.  It is simpler but only because there's a very narrow band of useful runes.  Yes, superb runes are very affordable.  Because of how narrow the choices are prepping gear to accept them is far from it.  It's too expensive for gear that people expect to replace shortly.  Are people using Service Tokens?  Is that irritating them?  That's something no metric will show.  Well other than an exit survey.
 
IMO any "teaching" bonus is going to backfire spectacularly particularly with the new meta of speed runs.  (Y'all do play and are aware of this right?)	
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{| class="blockquote"
Hrm.  I'm not convinced that the problem is that players aren't doing the content in the correct order, it's that there are too many stepping stones involved.  The gearing curve is too deep.  Like Kitsune pointed out you can skip the Shiphand and Adventure step if -- and this is important -- you gear up through contracts and world bosses (or get twinked through BoE's) and -- also very important -- fill the rune slots with reasonably correct runes.
 
The problem is that Veteran Adventures simply aren't rewarding enough for the level of effort required to get through them.  Malgrave Trail needs a rethink.  Lose the attitude about it being the highest level Adventure.  It's not hard it's a masochistic exercise in RNG.  Fix that and the Adventure Ability Tier unlock becomes more attractive.
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With the advice channel in game,  I read many posts newbies make,  and they are answered pretty quickly and thoughtfully.  This game doesn't give anymore or any less direction than many other mmos.
 
Once you hit lvl 50, and you decide you want to raid.  There are many guilds, players,  guides on google,  that will inform you on the various ways to get there.
 
The only time when ur questions might not get answered is in the dead of night.  And the only thing you will get is hardcore raiders  giving you cheek.	
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{| class="blockquote"
With the advice channel in game,  I read many posts newbies make,  and they are answered pretty quickly and thoughtfully.  This game doesn't give anymore or any less direction than many other mmos.
 
Once you hit lvl 50, and you decide you want to raid.  There are many guilds, players,  guides on google,  that will inform you on the various ways to get there.
 
The only time when ur questions might not get answered is in the dead of night.  And the only thing you will get is hardcore raiders  giving you cheek.
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The games flagship is the raids.  However its true you can do many other things at end game. 
 
I just would like to know what other mmos you are comparing it too?? That hve this flawless vision and explanation of what  you should do.
 
For every mmo I hve played I needed to do research and ask other players  about game specifics.
			
				
	Edited November 22, 2015 by Parks	
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The games flagship is the raids.  However its true you can do many other things at end game. 
 
I just would like to know what other mmos you are comparing it too?? That hve this flawless vision and explanation of what  you should do.
 
For every mmo I hve played I needed to do research and ask other players  about game specifics.
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			are you implying people who quest should "progress" to quests where you get raid level gear? lmao... sounds like you're mad your ilvl didnt go up from spamming adventures - nor should it	
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{| class="blockquote"
are you implying people who quest should "progress" to quests where you get raid level gear? lmao... sounds like you're mad your ilvl didnt go up from spamming adventures - nor should it
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{| class="blockquote"
are you implying people who quest should "progress" to quests where you get raid level gear? lmao... sounds like you're mad your ilvl didnt go up from spamming adventures - nor should it
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			the current system is good for many reasons... it allows content to be experienced... why would they make awesome stuff that nobody will run? IIRC the original design at launch was that it would scale ilvl's down to the best available from THAT INSTANCE for raids, so if 112 is the best you could get, itll scale 120 back down to 112... but alots changed since launch while I wasn't playing - with the power creep I'm not sure if it matters at this point... but the idea is that you have content to PROGRESS through... why would they skip raids? raids should be FUN, not making sure you're up to snuff on ilvl... and I definitely feel like the dungeon loot is better than it was at launch... but in general - you should spend time in those places and keep those raids relevant to progression and the economy... no reason to get rid of old content by making it obsolete... not many guilds are clearing DS, some are just starting on GA and you're worried about updating quest gear?and EXACTLY, you only n​eed raid gear loot for raids... so why bother asking for near ilvl quest loot?do we need hard mode dungeons? nope. veteran dungeons ARE hardmode dungeons, and getting gold is the goal. that's a little easier than it should be because of the power creep - but from what I hear proto games shreks people so idk? at launch SSM was a lvl 50 dungeon(that was hard) and the veteran version made LEGIONS of people cry to even beat it, let alone get the silver for attunement...​ if you want hardmode dungeons it's called raidsDo we need casual raids? nope. new world bosses are like raid bosses in a box... seems pretty casual to me! have we really bred a generation so entitled they feel like there should be able to use bumpers to bowl during bowling leagues just to feel like they are participating? get in dungeons, get good, get attuned, get good... if you're not willing to put in the effort to learn this game to do the pve content then the game isn't fun for you and you should move on.do we have enough casual​ mini game fluff outside of housing? personally I like rolling alts of different classes/factions to unlock sweet costume pieces... even now I have like 3-4 things I'm trying really hard to work towards to get just for costumes, but that's w/ethat said - there are s​​o many problems the dev team has on their plate... like gee... FIXING PVP. season 2 started and the rating system is broken, scoreboards are messed up, some classes are just straight up bugged in pvp, and this isn't even a QUESTION of balance... currently theres hardly any incentive to do arena, we waited this long and we got 12 costumes(7 of which are terrible) how much work you think that took? how much work do you think the 12 costumes took to make versus making a hoverboard park/event? shades even event/instance? ect.... so PLEASE. before you cry about how YOURE BORED because you limited yourself to like 1/3 of the games pve content, let them fix the other half of the game. 	
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			"HALP I NEED HIGHER ILVL GEAR TO KILL THIS LVL 1 JABBIT FASTER" is pretty much what your saying
			
				
	Edited November 23, 2015 by Techr	
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"HALP I NEED HIGHER ILVL GEAR TO KILL THIS LVL 1 JABBIT FASTER" is pretty much what your saying
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One of the biggest problems is that no matter the game, barely any percent of people actually raid, due to high players and coordination requirement. If they only see the issue in a funneling order, then they don't get it. Some will have no desire to progress past dungeons, others will find dungeons too hard and won't progress past adventures. And if those people are not offered a decent alternative way of progression, they won't stick here for too long.
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{| class="blockquote"
"HALP I NEED HIGHER ILVL GEAR TO KILL THIS LVL 1 JABBIT FASTER" is pretty much what your saying
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I mean, i know people have some less than wonderful experinces, but ultimately group up and ask for help.  Not only do people get questions answered in advice chat, but there are many guilds of all types looking to recruit and help people.  We even have people in our guild who spend most of their time doing JUST this.
 
I mean, afaik, there are housing people, there are RP people, there are raiding people, and there are PvP people.  I have yet to meet this "casual PvE content" people you speak of - but maybe i've been playing long enough that I know the more (in)famous people in each group?  I don't know.
 
While I admit i appreciate housing and RP is nice for winding down, i've never really done PvP.  Ultimately, I play wildstar to do datascape progression - that's my purpose.
 
That said, it seems like people want things spoonfed to them.  If you just simply ask for help, you can get it.  I mean the game shouldn't hand everything to you, and you SHOULD group up.  Why play an MMO if NOT to play with people?  There are plenty of excellent single player games out there if you wanna do that, imo.	
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Housing and RP for winding down?
 
Housing is more #hardcore then Avatus!	
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{| class="blockquote"
the current system is good for many reasons... it allows content to be experienced... why would they make awesome stuff that nobody will run? IIRC the original design at launch was that it would scale ilvl's down to the best available from THAT INSTANCE for raids, so if 112 is the best you could get, itll scale 120 back down to 112... but alots changed since launch while I wasn't playing - with the power creep I'm not sure if it matters at this point... but the idea is that you have content to PROGRESS through... why would they skip raids? raids should be FUN, not making sure you're up to snuff on ilvl... and I definitely feel like the dungeon loot is better than it was at launch... but in general - you should spend time in those places and keep those raids relevant to progression and the economy... no reason to get rid of old content by making it obsolete... not many guilds are clearing DS, some are just starting on GA and you're worried about updating quest gear?
 
 
and EXACTLY, you only n​eed raid gear loot for raids... so why bother asking for near ilvl quest loot?
 
do we need hard mode dungeons? nope. veteran dungeons ARE hardmode dungeons, and getting gold is the goal. that's a little easier than it should be because of the power creep - but from what I hear proto games shreks people so idk? at launch SSM was a lvl 50 dungeon(that was hard) and the veteran version made LEGIONS of people cry to even beat it, let alone get the silver for attunement...​ if you want hardmode dungeons it's called raids
Do we need casual raids? nope. new world bosses are like raid bosses in a box... seems pretty casual to me! have we really bred a generation so entitled they feel like there should be able to use bumpers to bowl during bowling leagues just to feel like they are participating? get in dungeons, get good, get attuned, get good... if you're not willing to put in the effort to learn this game to do the pve content then the game isn't fun for you and you should move on.
do we have enough casual​ mini game fluff outside of housing? personally I like rolling alts of different classes/factions to unlock sweet costume pieces... even now I have like 3-4 things I'm trying really hard to work towards to get just for costumes, but that's w/e
 
that said - there are s​​o many problems the dev team has on their plate... like gee... FIXING PVP. season 2 started and the rating system is broken, scoreboards are messed up, some classes are just straight up bugged in pvp, and this isn't even a QUESTION of balance... currently theres hardly any incentive to do arena, we waited this long and we got 12 costumes(7 of which are terrible) how much work you think that took? how much work do you think the 12 costumes took to make versus making a hoverboard park/event? shades even event/instance? ect.... so PLEASE. before you cry about how YOURE BORED because you limited yourself to like 1/3 of the games pve content, let them fix the other half of the game.
 
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the current system is good for many reasons... it allows content to be experienced... why would they make awesome stuff that nobody will run? IIRC the original design at launch was that it would scale ilvl's down to the best available from THAT INSTANCE for raids, so if 112 is the best you could get, itll scale 120 back down to 112... but alots changed since launch while I wasn't playing - with the power creep I'm not sure if it matters at this point... but the idea is that you have content to PROGRESS through... why would they skip raids? raids should be FUN, not making sure you're up to snuff on ilvl... and I definitely feel like the dungeon loot is better than it was at launch... but in general - you should spend time in those places and keep those raids relevant to progression and the economy... no reason to get rid of old content by making it obsolete... not many guilds are clearing DS, some are just starting on GA and you're worried about updating quest gear?
 
 
and EXACTLY, you only n​eed raid gear loot for raids... so why bother asking for near ilvl quest loot?
 
do we need hard mode dungeons? nope. veteran dungeons ARE hardmode dungeons, and getting gold is the goal. that's a little easier than it should be because of the power creep - but from what I hear proto games shreks people so idk? at launch SSM was a lvl 50 dungeon(that was hard) and the veteran version made LEGIONS of people cry to even beat it, let alone get the silver for attunement...​ if you want hardmode dungeons it's called raids
Do we need casual raids? nope. new world bosses are like raid bosses in a box... seems pretty casual to me! have we really bred a generation so entitled they feel like there should be able to use bumpers to bowl during bowling leagues just to feel like they are participating? get in dungeons, get good, get attuned, get good... if you're not willing to put in the effort to learn this game to do the pve content then the game isn't fun for you and you should move on.
do we have enough casual​ mini game fluff outside of housing? personally I like rolling alts of different classes/factions to unlock sweet costume pieces... even now I have like 3-4 things I'm trying really hard to work towards to get just for costumes, but that's w/e
 
that said - there are s​​o many problems the dev team has on their plate... like gee... FIXING PVP. season 2 started and the rating system is broken, scoreboards are messed up, some classes are just straight up bugged in pvp, and this isn't even a QUESTION of balance... currently theres hardly any incentive to do arena, we waited this long and we got 12 costumes(7 of which are terrible) how much work you think that took? how much work do you think the 12 costumes took to make versus making a hoverboard park/event? shades even event/instance? ect.... so PLEASE. before you cry about how YOURE BORED because you limited yourself to like 1/3 of the games pve content, let them fix the other half of the game.
 
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Kitsune said this.......
 
there is TONS of reasons to get higher level gear as the story progresses, new monsters are seen, new dynamics added to the world, new zones, all of which have higher difficulty, requiring the higher level gear."
 
 
lol and when new monsters/content/whatever is added they will be assigned a tier of content...... and the loot you will need to start that tier of content will be from the previous tier.... so your reason of because there will be new monster or what not that specifically requires higher level is silly. They aren't going to add new content that is accessible to every one and have it require end game raiding gear to do it....	
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Kitsune said this.......
 
there is TONS of reasons to get higher level gear as the story progresses, new monsters are seen, new dynamics added to the world, new zones, all of which have higher difficulty, requiring the higher level gear."
 
 
lol and when new monsters/content/whatever is added they will be assigned a tier of content...... and the loot you will need to start that tier of content will be from the previous tier.... so your reason of because there will be new monster or what not that specifically requires higher level is silly. They aren't going to add new content that is accessible to every one and have it require end game raiding gear to do it....
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"lol and when new monsters/content/whatever is added they will be assigned a tier of content...... and the loot you will need to start that tier of content will be from the previous tier...." applies to open world as well. Open World is a tier of content.
 
There is! tradeskills and housing! Wildstar has something for everyone! MAOR CASUAL CONTENT PLEASE?
			
				
	Edited November 24, 2015 by Techr	
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"lol and when new monsters/content/whatever is added they will be assigned a tier of content...... and the loot you will need to start that tier of content will be from the previous tier...." applies to open world as well.
 
There is! tradeskills and housing! Wildstar has something for everyone!
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			lol ohhh trust me i know how *cupcake*ed up wildstar is at almost every part of the game look at my topic posts lol	
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"lol and when new monsters/content/whatever is added they will be assigned a tier of content...... and the loot you will need to start that tier of content will be from the previous tier...." applies to open world as well. Open World is a tier of content.
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Now, build guides and all are another matter but order of things and all that? Yeah, that's up to the game, if the players are explaining it, it's a failed design. Maybe that's acceptable to some, but it shouldn't be a thing. If you can't present your vision to your players, that's really bad.
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Background: I'm a lifelong gamer married 40s no kids...lots of time and a fair amount of disposable income to spend on gaming. I've been playing MMOs for over a decade, though I don't claim to be a veteran or even of above average skill I have participated successfully in many MMO endgame activities (from raiding to group dailies and everything in between).
 
Opinion: WildStar is a beautiful game, I love the graphics, I love the lore, I freaking adore the character models and I really enjoyed the challenge of leveling as it required a lot more attention than in other games. Got to 50, found a great raiding guild to give me some guidance since I knew entering endgame would be more difficult than in other games I've played. They showed me the ropes, helped me gear up and got me attuned, they even brought me along for the first boss in GA that very same day to unlock the raid gear vendor for me and help me further gear up. My ilvl being 84 and fully runed they encourage me to start queueing for vet dungeons for more practice, glory, gear and runes...fair enough. I found the vet dungeons teeth gnashingly hard but I struggled through for as long as the groups would have me, usually bowing out after my death would wipe them on a boss the third or fourth time. After three separate 2 hour attempts on the last boss of Skullcano with three different groups, including a guildie group, I'm left with the realization I simply don't possess the hand/eye coordination or reflexes to participate in WildStar's endgame. I'm not crying or ranting, this is a simple realization of the limits of my playing ability. However, if a fairly average player like myself who is no noob when it comes to games of this sort can't hack it, I fear for the future of this game given who it's publisher is.
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