134141-can-we-stop-turning-people-away-from-the-pvp-servers

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I see this a lot, in almost every post discussing servers, no matter what aspect it is. People will ask about the PvP servers or they'll get mentioned and then everyone and their grandma rushes in to inform new players, who have little knowledge of WildStar's past, that the PvP servers are dead. In turn, people coming to these forums just think, "Oh, the PvP server is dead, of course I should roll on the PvE server!" and so forth and so on. You are all creating a cycle that prevents the PvP server from doing better than it is because you keep telling people it's dead. 
 
I've got news for you all: it's not.
 
While the OP of the thread titled, "It's a disgrace so many are playing PvE severs" made a lot of flawed points and even went so far as to insult players who don't enjoy PvP servers, his intention wasn't bad. PvP servers can be great, and do attract a different crowd. PvP servers also don't mean that PvE doesn't happen. I lead a guild on a PvP server in WoW and we're a fairly decent raid group for the time we invest.
 
Long story short, we just need people to stop telling everyone that the PvP servers are "dead". It's hurting everyone on both sides. Because of this, people are NOT rolling on the PvP servers, meaning less players for us, and in turn are sitting in queues on the PvE server waiting for hours when the PvP server is instant/has a short queue. Warhound had as many people on last night in the starting zones as Entity. I was logging between the two and checking every few minutes in my down time. Given the chance, Warhound could easily have a very healthy and active population, and it honestly already does. No, it won't be as large as Entity, but that's due to unfortunate circumstances in WildStar's past, not because PvP servers suck. 
 
So stop telling everyone to roll on the PvE servers! Stop saying the PvP servers are dead! Just tell people to roll on whichever server they want to play on. 	
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Ok so im thinking of rerolling on a pvp server cos these Queues are getting ridiculous and i just want to try the game out.
 
Ive played MMOs and so understand what goes on. But can i get an honest insight into how much Ganking goes on?
 
I like PVP so dont mind the treachery of openworld PVP but dont like it to Hinder my PVE experience when I decide to commit too it.
 
Im trying this game out to scratch the MMO itch and im excited for it. Queues are killing it for me but i also dont wanna rage quit by being camped by gankers or twinks.	
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... but but ... the PVP servers are dead. Sheesh, everyone knows that.
 
I mean, it's not like we got a sudden, massive influx of players that changed that or anything. We have to make sure that people know that it was dead, so it must still be dead, because, you know, nothing *ever* changes.
 
 :lol:
 
Seriously though, I tried to ask people to stop this MONTHS ago and got told to shut up about it and let everyone come to the PVE servers since, you know, nothing was EVER going to change the population issues. :blink:	
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You are sending a postive message that I agree with, but majority of the posters who gave their reasons for joining PvE, simply did that.. they gave their reason for logging on a PvE server. The OP from ït´s a disgrace so many are playing PvE servers``could not understand that some people do not like to be ganked.
 
So, yeah I agree that people should just roll whichever server they want to, but lets not defend someone who could not take a NO for a answer. The OP from the other thread might habe had the best intention, but his execution was horrible and instead getting a support or having people understand him, his dismissal of their opinion, turned majority of the posters against him.
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You are sending a postive message that I agree with, but majority of the posters who gave their reasons for joining PvE, simply did that.. they gave their reason for logging on a PvE server. The OP from ït´s a disgrace so many are playing PvE servers` thread`could not understand that some people do not like to be ganked.
 
So, yeah I agree that people should just roll whichever server they want to, but lets not defend someone who could not take a NO for a answer. The OP from the other thread might have had the best intention, but his execution was horrible and instead getting of support or having people understand him, he dismissed their opinion and turned majority of the posters against him.
			
				
	Edited September 30, 2015 by Laerune	
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			That thread is/was terrible and the poster should feel bad for stating his case in such a way. It should have been shut down instead of being allowed to fester like it has.	
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You're complaining about a fundamental of MMOs. Let me bring you to the mind of someone who is brand new to MMOs and is joining Wildstar.
 
"Ooookay...so I'm logging in and...what? 'Please pick your server'? Okay well the Entity server has the most people and the Warbound server has the least, so let's join the one with the most people."
 
It doesn't require a genius to know that playing on the server with the least amount of people isn't going to be a good time. Plus, for the people that are familiar with how PvE and PvP realms work and are just joining Wildstar, they'd still realize that there's NO benefit to playing on a PvP server, only cons as opposed to pros.
 
- You'll get ganked in every neutral leveling zone.
- There's less people on the server, making it harder to get into raiding or REAL PvP content.
 
Seriously, instead of very subtly hinting at we should start forcing people to join the Warbound, we should just remove the PvP server all together and move everyone to Entity. "Oh boo hoo! No World PvP!" I highly doubt World PvP even exists on Warbound to begin with. Those minor moments where you ganked someone twice in a day isn't World PvP.	
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You're complaining about a fundamental of MMOs. Let me bring you to the mind of someone who is brand new to MMOs and is joining Wildstar.
 
"Ooookay...so I'm logging in and...what? 'Please pick your server'? Okay well the Entity server has the most people and the Warbound server has the least, so let's join the one with the most people."
 
It doesn't require a genius to know that playing on the server with the least amount of people isn't going to be a good time. Plus, for the people that are familiar with how PvE and PvP realms work and are just joining Wildstar, they'd still realize that there's NO benefit to playing on a PvP server, only cons as opposed to pros.
 
- You'll get ganked in every neutral leveling zone.
- There's less people on the server, making it harder to get into raiding or REAL PvP content.
 
Seriously, instead of very subtly hinting at we should start forcing people to join the Warbound, we should just remove the PvP server all together and move everyone to Entity. "Oh boo hoo! No World PvP!" I highly doubt World PvP even exists on Warbound to begin with. Those minor moments where you ganked someone twice in a day isn't World PvP.
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I leveled up when WS first came out and have played on PvP servers in every game and I have never been constantly ganked or camped for hours on end. Why is it that people say this over and over when it's simply not true?
 
 
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Ah... but there's the rub... of course everyone that leveled up on a PvP server when it, or the game, was new, was ok... there weren't any bored high level a..hats around to ruin the game for others.
 
However, it is ABSOLUTELY, 100%, DO NOT PASS GO DO NOT COLLECT $200 TRUE that ganking, gank squads, exist in GREAT numbers after the server/game has been around for a while.
 
I like the idea of PvP.  I've played almost every game out there on PvP for a bit... and EVERY... SINGLE.. .TIME some bored high level has camped me, or others I've seen... EVERY... SINGLE... TIME !!
 
If you can be in on the start, level at a respective pace... then yeah... you probably won't be the "gankee," but if you come into an already established server/game... yeah... you're fodder.  I've never had it NOT happen.  Even in a stupid mobile MMO, Order and Chaos, once I got into the PvP zones that you MUST go in for PvE quests... I kept getting killed/camped... and it was all over the forums too.
 
It doesn't take a majority of PvP players to be jerks... in fact most are not as I know many and like them... but it only takes a dedicated few basement dwelling losers to ruin it for those of us with lives who MAYBE have 1 or 2 hours on a night to play.
 
The BEST thing that DAoC ever did... change the "con" system in the frontiers so that everyone "conned" even.... really, REALLY decreased the amount of indiscriminate ganking.
 
I love the idea of some dangers in my PvE world... of engaging someone other than AI who is my equal and may the best man/woman win, or groups of like minded forces... but that's not the way ANY PvP game/server has ever been in my experience.  You say you've never experienced that... but many, including myself, have and it's unfortunate.
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I love how your solution to this problem is to remove content that some people enjoy by making baseless claims that have no proof or fact to them? Let's completely ignore the WPvP that went on last night in Warhound by leveling players for 30 minutes or more that ended in both sides have fun. No, let's ignore that, as it fits your agenda that you know nothing about.
 
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Of course I've experienced ganking. It's sometimes frustrating. I've just never experienced the kind where a bored high level camps me for hours because they have nothing else to do. That kind of stuff happened in older MMOs because there wasn't much to do at end-game except roam around the world. In modern Themepark MMOs, you pretty much sit in the capital and queue for dungeons/raids. The PvP server just offers groups the ability to participate in WPvP. It's simply another form of content.
 
The thing is, the PvP servers in WildStar were so low on population that pretty much everyone on them now are new players. Everyone IS on the ground floor. Sure, there are some max level players, even a decent amount, but so far all they've done is help. We even had some max level players in the starting zones trying to help and guide new people.
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Did you really need to make a new thread about this?
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I'm sure that battle of 6 people was really awesome. Just face it, people want to play on the servers where everyone else plays. Why do you think there's so many low population servers on WoW and like 10 full ones? People aren't going to dedicate a character to a server where they'll barely interact with other characters (which by the way is the entire point of an MMO). We aren't turning people away from the PvP server. Simply telling a new player that "Entity has way more people than Warbound", is all that anyone informing the newbies has been saying. And if they keep joining Entity, then it's that they don't see any benefit in joining a dead server where the only fun they'll have is a once a week battle while leveling.
 
You keep wanting this game's main focus to be WPvP even though it's just a server rule that enables that. So instead of forcing people to join Warbound, how about we remove it, transfer everyone to Entity, and add a new area specifically designed for World PvP where everyone is temporarily boosted to level 50? Hell, the map can even change in minor ways every week or so. At least then, more of these battles that you love so much will exist more often and be on fair ground. But the WPvP that you keep talking about isn't fun to a huge amount of people. It's not just the population that's turning them away, it's the fact that they don't want to WPvP.
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PvP players make people turn away from PvP.
 
The community is to blame, not the PvP itself.
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			Did you really need to make a new thread about this?	
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 Just tell people to roll on whichever server they want to play on. 
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PvP players make people turn away from PvP.
 
The community is to blame, not the PvP itself.	
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I'm pretty sure the point of this thread is explicitly not about the reasons why some people don't want to be on a PvP server.
The point is about not discouraging people who do want to be on a PvP server from rolling on one.
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Yes, population is a factor when people are trying to determine what server to play on, but the simple truth is that many PvPers are rolling on Entity because all they've heard is, "Warhound is dead." If I was starting a new MMO, even if I wanted to play on the PvP server I never would if I was told it was dead. I wouldn't spend hours trying to figure out if this was true or not; I'd trust what people told me (because no one on the internet lies or exaggerates, right?) and move on.
 
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PvP players make people turn away from PvP.
The community is to blame, not the PvP itself.
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This is just an excuse and a lie that people convince themselves to believe.
 
In every MMO I've played I roll on the biggest PvP server. Currently on one in WoW, and the community is fine. Just because 1-2 people gank and camp doesn't mean the rest of the hundreds/thousands of players are bad or encourage it. In fact, on most servers I play on it's looked down on. 
 
All you did was make a generalization. Nothing more.
 
 
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			Most people don't go on a PVP server because it's less populated, they don't go on one because in todays time those servers are often full of idiot kids that have nothing better to do than gank people all day long.	
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I never said population wasn't a factor. I said "It's NOT JUST the population." Plus, it's not just people on Entity telling new players that "Warbound is dead". For one, not everyone is saying that, and secondly I've seen people apart of the Warbound server telling them that Entity has the higher population.
 
It's way better to direct someone to the higher population server where they'll have a great time, as opposed to directing them to Warbound where there's a big chance they'll lose interest in the game, losing Carbine more money to make the game better.
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Most people don't go on a PVP server because it's less populated, they don't go on one because in todays time those servers are often full of idiot kids that have nothing better to do than gank people all day long.
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I don't believe there's ever been a thread like mine, so yes, I do feel it was needed. Just this morning alone I've read countless threads/posts about exactly what I spoke about. Someone had to say something.
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Actually you basically started the same thread you started yesterday. You are still basically telling people they should lie. Yes the PvP server is picking up population, however its not exactly what i would call booming. I am not going to lie to others because you deem it necessary. Also just cause you haven't experience being ganked or camped over and over doesn't mean others haven't. Like i told you in your thread yesterday, you should really stop calling other players experiences false. If you have the innate ability to look through their eyes and and play the game for them you might have a leg to stand on.
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Thank you for being yet again another example of the type of person I'm talking about.
 
How nice of you to make a generalization based off of absolute nothing while calling every person who likes t o play on a PvP server an "idiot kid".
 
Bravo.
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Ok, well here's a non-generalization for you....Me:  6 years on Dragonmaw PvP server in WoW.   Got sick and tired of the childish camping all in the name of "PvP" so I went to a PvE server and had MUCH more fun.
 
You can accuse people of "generalizations" all you want, as I can accuse you of minimizing what really happens on those servers by stating it's only 1 or 2 people ganking.
 
It isn't.
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Ok, well here's a non-generalization for you....Me:  6 years on Dragonmaw PvP server in WoW.   Got sick and tired of the childish camping all in the name of "PvP" so I went to a PvE server and had MUCH more fun.
 
You can accuse people of "generalizations" all you want, as I can accuse you of minimizing what really happens on those servers by stating it's only 1 or 2 people ganking.
 
It isn't.
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This is just an excuse and a lie that people convince themselves to believe.
 
In every MMO I've played I roll on the biggest PvP server. Currently on one in WoW, and the community is fine. Just because 1-2 people gank and camp doesn't mean the rest of the hundreds/thousands of players are bad or encourage it. In fact, on most servers I play on it's looked down on. 
 
All you did was make a generalization. Nothing more.
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You know, there ARE ways to counter camping. In fact, counter PvP is my favorite thing about PvP servers. 
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That's why there is always more players on PvE than PvP?
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while i can somewhat understand the op's point, i don't think there is anything wrong with actively recruiting for the pve server. if someone asks me, a pve player, if they should go to pvp, i will tell them "nope, it sucks over there.roll pve"
if you want people to roll pvp, you need to do something to make it attractive to them. 
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while i can somewhat understand the op's point, i don't think there is anything wrong with actively recruiting for the pve server. if someone asks me, a pve player, if they should go to pvp, i will tell them "nope, it sucks over there.roll pve"
if you want people to roll pvp, you need to do something to make it attractive to them. 	
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Yep.  I used the nuclear option to counter camping.
 
Moved to a PvE server.
 
Voy-la.
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			Some of you are really missing the point of this thread. It's not to tell PvE people to go to the PvP server and get ganked, it's simply to not tell PvP people that the PvP server is dead, so they go and thrive there, and everyone is happy.	
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I'd love for you to provide your sources that prove this to be true. I'll wait if you'd like to find them.
 
Oddly, in WoW, some of the most populated servers in the game are on PvP realms. Tichondrius, Darkspear, Illidan, Frostmourne, Sargeras, Emerald Dream, Moon Guard, and Bleeding Hollow are all PvP realms in the top 10. Note that that's EIGHT servers in the top 10 being PvP servers.
 
Source? https://realmpop.com/us.html
 
 
In TERA, the most active realm for PvE and PvP is on a PvP realm (Mount Tyranas or something like that). Just load up the game, it's the only server at High populated. Not home, so can't get a screenshot.
 
Now, if the two of the most active MMOs in the genre have THAT going for them, I wonder how your claim will hold up.
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PvP servers having no queue, their character creation is working, basically everything is working.
 
PvE is lagging behind in character creation, lag almost all the time, 6 hour queue times.
 
 
That alone speaks volumes, way more people on PvE than PvP.
 
By the by, Tera server population doesn't count as evidence towards THIS game's population.
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Str1der
"So you basically admit that you're ok with making the PvE realm more inflated, having longer queue times, and more lag as well as attempting to starve the PvP realm all because of your own personal opinion?
 
I just want to be clear here."
 
 
well, there's a lovely little strawman for ya.
 
no, i am not ok with longer que times or any of the other unrelated things you said. those happen to be problems i feel that ncsoft needs to deal with.  i think they should invest heavily into whatever is needed (whether it be new tech or more bodies to handle what they have) to make the game run smoothly on whichever server a person chooses to play on.
 
that will not stop me from actively telling people that i want them on the pve server.	
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I'm sorry you lack reading comprehension and feel this thread is the same as the last one. They're actually different. It's subtle, but if you read between the lines, you'll see why. If you can't figure it out, I'll tell you: My point in this thread is to stop players from telling people to avoid the PvP server. The other one was just to get people to go there. Kind of different, wouldn't you agree? Countless PvE players, who don't want to play on the PvP sever and that hate PvP, are telling new players to avoid it. How is that your place? How is that incredibly biased? Why can't you simply say, "Roll on he PvP server if you want to PvP, roll on the PvE server if you don't like WPvP." It's that simple.
 
Second, I guess we disagree on "booming". Warhound had just as many active players coming in and out of it's starting zones as did Entity. That sounds pretty good to me.
 
And third, I haven't once called other players experience false, though I do believe them to be exaggerated. Crazy how in 10+ years of playing MMOs that I've never once been ganked so far and for so long that I wanted to never set foot on a PvP server again. The simple truth is that people who have had these "horrible" experiences were individuals who didn't like PvP in the first place.
 
The problem is, people like them (and you) are telling new players who may like PvP that they should avoid the PvP servers due to personal anecdotes, emotions, and flawed reasoning. That's fine that you don't like PvP servers, but others do. There's no reason for every person to consantly say, "Avoid PvP realms, ganking is non-stop! Avoid PvP realms, the population is dead! Avoid PvP realms, because *insert reason why you don't personally like them*".
 
Guess what that does? It causes people to avoid PvP realms for every reason but the correct one.
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You do understand that the reason WildStar's PvE realms are more populated has very little, if anything, to do with people hating PvP... right?
 
Like, you do know that early transfers were one way and that people could not go back to the PvP realm? It literally created a positive feedback loop. As the population of the game dwindled, people wanted more and more to do together before cross-realm was implemented. PvPers knew they could PvP AND Raid on the PvE realms, so they went over there grudgingly. In the end, they were stuck there. PvE players who hate PvP were never going to roll on the PvP server, so it only made sense.
 
That has nothing to do with people hating PvP and everything to do with a shrinking population and a transfer system that literally prevented anyone from going to the PvP realm. Ever.
 
I mentioned WoW and TERA because you made a basless claim that PvE servers are more populated than PvP servers. I proved you wrong.
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I merely responded to your response, if you don't wish things to stray off topic then don't stray yourself. I gave an answer many people agree with.
 
People don't like pvp because the pvp community scorns them and pushes them away. It's more the community's fault than the actual pvp.
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I merely responded to your response, if you don't wish things to stray off topic then don't stray yourself. I gave an answer many people agree with.
 
People don't like pvp because the pvp community scorns them and pushes them away. It's more the community's fault than the actual pvp.
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Before F2P I server changed to PvE server because PvP was dead.
 
Now it is F2P and lots of players have joined I cannot server change back to PvP =(	
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And, we've gone full circle. Baseless generalizations that contribute nothing and that can't be proven or backed up.
 
If historically in every other game PvP servers are the more populated ones, and they aren't in WildStar, there's a REAAALLY good chance that it's not due to the community and an even higher chance it's due to some really crazy circumstances that did actually happen.
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			Is there any difference between the two types of servers except from a permanent raised flag?	
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Is there any difference between the two types of servers except from a permanent raised flag?
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Is there any difference between the two types of servers except from a permanent raised flag?
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I agree with the OP. The PvP server is highly populated and a lot of fun. Come join us on either faction, we're much more friendly and laid back than the PvE folks in this thread and there are players of all kinds on our server!  :wub:
 
 
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And third, I haven't once called other players experience false, though I do believe them to be exaggerated. Crazy how in 10+ years of playing MMOs that I've never once been ganked so far and for so long that I wanted to never set foot on a PvP server again. The simple truth is that people who have had these "horrible" experiences were individuals who didn't like PvP in the first place.
 
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Ya, if all you're going to do is repeat instead of bring a valid argument. I'll just leave this thread, no point in wasting time with someone who doesn't add anything new.
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			So, why even bother creating different types of servers if there is not enough actual content to make them unique	
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I already responded to why PvP servers are popular in WoW, the top raiding guilds are in those servers, the population wasn't dictated by pvpers. Pvers makes the population of said servers and the pvpers were forced to other servers.
 
So no, people didn't go to pvp servers to pvp on those games.
 
And again, using other MMO's as evidence doesn't hold for your argument.
 
And I did back it up, pve server queues, character creation issues and so forth. You're completely ignoring what people are saying and only nit picking certain parts to try and strengthen your own argument when really you've just invalidated your argument time and time again.
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Are you blind? Did you not read anything I've posted? 
 
Using the fact that the PvE server has a larger queue time doesn't mean anything other than what I've already said. People were told for months and weeks coming up to the F2P release that the PvP server was dead and to roll on the PvE realm. How does that have ANYTHING to do with people liking PvP or not? People like you have created this cause and effect cycle. Of course more people are going to roll on the PvE realm, you've all told them not to roll on the PvP realm!
 
THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT OF MY THREAD! A lot of people who may like PvP are simply going to the PvE realms because they're being told to by PvE players. Does no one else see the irony in this?
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Well sure, if you just WANT to let them win.
 
The fact of the matter is this: some people can't PvP. They aren't good at it and they don't want to have to do it to carry on with their content. That's totally understandable, but I truly believe the PvP servers are the way the game was meant to be played. There's a reason why there are two factions and they hate each other. I don't begrudge people who don't want to (or can't) PvP; I get it. However, we should really let the new people decide where to go without doomsaying or coercing them too much.
 
As someone who likes PvP AND PvE, the PvP server is a really great place with more facets of gameplay than PvE servers. The people saying the PvE server has just as good of PvP has never counter-PKed someone or been called in to help lowbies or had a group fight in a zone with multiple people hunting each other. BGs are fine, but they pale in  comparison. PvP servers are the only place you find real PvP.
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 All work rather well. In fact last night I did the third several times and managed to easily avoid being ganked. Running out of the first town in Algoroc, the 50 was often aggored by guards (or killed I think sometimes), or he'd be attacking someone else, so I'd just run a bit farther to the left while he was busy and he'd miss me altogether. It's pretty easy to avoid being repeatedly ganked if you actually try. In my experience avoiding PvP on a PvP server is honestly rather easy.
 
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So, why even bother creating different types of servers if there is not enough actual content to make them unique
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Yeah, yeah, if you're a PvP-er your a badass and better than PvE-ers, yada, yada... Why are you people unable to understand that some people just don't like to be FORCED into PvP. Would you like it if you would be forced into raiding? Like if you have a nice PvP session and suddenly a message pops up telling you that now you will be teleported to DS with a random pug, and you have to do that for 2 hours. Some people have limited freetime after a hard days work, and while PvP can be fun, it becomes frustrating if you e.g. cannot do a single quest for a week because every evening you get attacked by someone.
 
Btw, real PvP is about skill and challenge, while world PvP usually is simply an unbalanced zergfest, hence more boring than PvE ever could be...
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Yeah, yeah, if you're a PvP-er your a badass and better than PvE-ers, yada, yada... Why are you people unable to understand that some people just don't like to be FORCED into PvP. Would you like it if you would be forced into raiding? Like if you have a nice PvP session and suddenly a message pops up telling you that now you will be teleported to DS with a random pug, and you have to do that for 2 hours. Some people have limited freetime after a hard days work, and while PvP can be fun, it becomes frustrating if you e.g. cannot do a single quest for a week because every evening you get attacked by someone.
 
Btw, real PvP is about skill and challenge, while world PvP usually is simply an unbalanced zergfest, hence more boring than PvE ever could be...
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I can't remember the class, might have been a stalker, not sure that he was human. Although I'm an Aurin so everbody looks tall to me lol. I did notice his guild name was Team Legacy though. Can't remember his own name. :\ I was too busy trying to figure out the quests I needed to get done with my buddy lol. So many quests in this game omg.
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That didn't happen to be a Cassian Stalker, did it?
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Also, as an avid and hardcore WoW raider, the reason I enjoy PvP realms is because it gives me more to do outside of just raiding. Structured and instanced PvP is fun, but so is running around with your guild fighting other guilds. Starting rivalries. WPvP encourages player participation out in the world. I love that.
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Because there is. For one thing many of us enjoy OwPvP and we can find that on PvP servers. That alone is a big enough reason for many of us. You will also find many more PvP-minded players and guilds on PvP servers, and more skilled ones. So if you want to queue for BGs and Arenas a lot, the best PvP players will be playing on the PvP servers, so you'll need to join the PvP server to play with them More than that, the server community on PvP servers differs a bit from PvE servers and personally I like them much more. I just fit in with them better and enjoy them more than PvE servers so that's where I go.
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As a sidenote, the most skilled PvEers I have met and played with over the years were always hardcore and very skilled PvP players as well. So anybody who thinks they won't get high quality PvE on a PvP server is just so very wrong.
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Because this is not the case. I stated in my post above the various ways to deal with a potential (and honestly rare) ganker. If you cannot get that quest done it's because you refuse to be social. PvP servers are a much more social experience than PvE servers. You need to reach out to friends, guildmates, or factionmates when you run into trouble. This is also why PvP servers tend to have much more tight-knit communities and tend to know each other very well.
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Yes, you reach out to friends, they come, then the enemy reaches out, and then the whole fun PvP event becomes a mindless zerging boring clusterf*ck. Never understood the fun in that, probably never will.
 
 
Don't you see the the contradiction? You say that it's often unfair, but you say that it's bg-s that come down to gear and number of healers and such... Aha...
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Yes, you reach out to friends, they come, then the enemy reaches out, and then the whole fun PvP event becomes a Battleground. Never understood the fun in that, probably never will.
 
 
Don't you see the the contradiction? You say that it's often unfair, but you say that it's bg-s that come down to gear and number of healers and such... Aha...
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			The issue is that everyone's argument on both sides is subjective. Warhound is less populated than Entity at the moment. Should that discourage people from playing on it? No. Will it? Most likely. Does ganking happen? Yes. Should that discourage people from playing on it? No. Will it? Yes. It may have been or maybe a rare occasion(in your experience), but the acts of a few will still hurt the many (this is view combining all games, as it starts the domino effect to other games). Sugar coat the issue as you like, however it is still an issue none the less. 
			
				
	Edited September 30, 2015 by Wolfuse	
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The issue is that everyone's argument on both sides is subjective. Warhound is less populated than Entity at the moment. Should that discourage people from playing on it? No. Will it? Most likely. Does ganking happen? Yes. Should that discourage people from playing on it? No. Will it? Yes. It may have been or maybe a rare occasion(in your experience), but the acts of a few will still hurt the many. Sugar coat the issue as you like, however it is still an issue none the less. 
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The issue is that everyone's argument on both sides is subjective. Warhound is less populated than Entity at the moment. Should that discourage people from playing on it? No. Will it? Most likely. Does ganking happen? Yes. Should that discourage people from playing on it? No. Will it? Yes. It may have been or maybe a rare occasion(in your experience), but the acts of a few will still hurt the many. Sugar coat the issue as you like, however it is still an issue none the less. 
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But both of your arguments are a falsie, consider the population on warhound has grown to the point of having a server que. You are arguing that peoples words are turning players away when it clearly isn't. In some cases it is probably turning players away, but imo those players wouldn't have stayed anyway if they had reached any of the issues people have spoken about. So what is your actual arguement? As clearly Warhound is not being hurt as badly as you all make it out to be by the forums or it wouldn't be gaining players.
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			But both of your arguments are a falsie, consider the population on warhound has grown to the point of having a server que. You are arguing that peoples words are turning all would be players away when it clearly isn't. In some cases it is probably turning players away, but imo those players wouldn't have stayed anyway if they had reached any of the issues people have spoken about. So what is your actual arguement? As clearly Warhound is not being hurt as badly as you all make it out to be by the forums or it wouldn't be gaining players.
			
				
	Edited September 30, 2015 by Wolfuse	
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			Its true PvP server is dead, I would love to play in an open PvP server, thats why Im playing Crowfall but here in WildStar I barely saw a Dominion or Exile Player around when I was leveling in Warhound so I changed to Entity	
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Its true PvP server is dead, I would love to play in an open PvP server, thats why Im playing Crowfall but here in WildStar I barely saw a Dominion or Exile Player around when I was leveling in Warhound so I changed to Entity
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Its true PvP server is dead, I would love to play in an open PvP server, thats why Im playing Crowfall but here in WildStar I barely saw a Dominion or Exile Player around when I was leveling in Warhound so I changed to Entity
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			Mentok not sure why people not want PvP people in PvP server. Learn through experience, if not good for them they move elsewhere.	
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The other side of the coin: on a PvP server, you are FORCED into this content. You don't play if IF you want, you don't play it WHEN you want, it is forced on you. You remove something this way as well, the freedom of choice.
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For me, I think of WPvP as just another form of content. By playing on a PvE realm, I'm effectively removing part of the game. Just how I see it ,and I understand that for some people removing that form of content is a good thing, not a bad one.
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The other side of the coin: on a PvP server, you are FORCED into this content. You don't play if IF you want, you don't play it WHEN you want, it is forced on you. You remove something this way as well, the freedom of choice.
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Bold text: Fixed. 
 
There's no contradiction there. Let me pose a hypothetical; If someone is given a fair shot in life and they are successful, that's great! They worked hard to get where they are and they deserve it! If someone is dealt a bad hand in life and still manages to find success; which is a more impressive feat? You can't blame someone for getting a fair shot and so you can't look down on them, but surely you can see that someone who wins a gun fight with a knife must be pretty skilled in some way. 
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But there's still the issue that PvE is packed and people don't want to wait around for queues, so many are just joining the PvP server for the time being. The PvE population will drop to healthy levels, but that may not be the case for the PvP server. We're not asking anything unreasonable; just quit coloring new players impressions and let them decide for themselves so we don't have to go back to only the PvE server being populated because reasons.
 
My hope is that PvP pop will remain stable, but the doomsaying isn't going to help matters at all, especially since PvE is packed as it is. 
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PvP realms were dead before F2P. I don't feel comfortable recommending people roll on what was basically an empty server with no economy.
 
JMO obviously.	
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Yeah, and that's like one in a million. I played on a PvP server in WoW for 5 years, I had good world PvP experience like 5% of the time. In theory it sounds awesome, but it just doesn't work. It quickly becomes a boring zergfest most of the time. But what you are describing, can be done on a PvE realm as well, you just have to falg yourself for PvP. So I don't really get why we need separated servers with forced flag.
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That may be true, but the initial problem is that Wilstar allowed PvP transfers to PvE. They need to open the reverse to allow those players the option to return as most if not all preferred the PvP server but moved due to the lack of population/entertainment. 
 
I spent my entire game session last night on my lvl 3 spellslinger answering new player questions in the starting zones in order welcome new players. There was an occasional arsehat making snide remarks, like google it. Your actions in-game would be a better use of your time than trying to discourage others on the forums. You can not stop people from doomsaying all you can do is try to show the good side of its community. Friendly, helpful players in-game will maintain the population even with random/occasional ganking.
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Using that analogy, anything in life has no freedom of choice. Technically someone can run in to my office right now and shoot me. I have no say in it. He'd literally be forcing me in to that situation. Just because something CAN happen doesn't mean it WILL happen. And even if it does, there's no telling how often or at what rate.
 
The simple truth is that PvP servers offer MORE Freedom of Choice, not less. How could having the option to kill someone be less of a choice? People who prefer PvE servers like that this choice is removed. You can't randomly gank someone. You can't force someone to fight you. You have control because the freedom of someone else wanting to attack you is removed.
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But your scenario is more of a PvP server than a PvE server which works against your argument in regards to ganking. The gunman is equal to a high level player ganking a lowbie. On a pvp server i have no choice but to allow him to kill me. In real life i cant call on help after i have been ganked as i am dead and there is no resurrect. I run i get shot, i stand there i get shot. Rare occasion or not it still happens which is an issue real world or not. In a PvE server people have the option and choice to engage this person. That is where the freedom lays, now if they used a level downgrade system like GW2 where the players in each zone where on close to level ground that would be another thing.
 
The only way ganking would stop is if they used a level downgrading system which they dont have. 
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No you're not. You can do whatever you like whenever you like. Stop exaggerating. We get it you don't like PvP servers, fine. Don't make stuff up to push other people away from it.
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The exact opposite, I say that people who like world pvp should go to the PvP server. I just don't understand why someone likes world pvp, but let's leave it at that.
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I'm sure that battle of 6 people was really awesome. Just face it, people want to play on the servers where everyone else plays. Why do you think there's so many low population servers on WoW and like 10 full ones? People aren't going to dedicate a character to a server where they'll barely interact with other characters (which by the way is the entire point of an MMO). We aren't turning people away from the PvP server. Simply telling a new player that "Entity has way more people than Warbound", is all that anyone informing the newbies has been saying. And if they keep joining Entity, then it's that they don't see any benefit in joining a dead server where the only fun they'll have is a once a week battle while leveling.
 
You keep wanting this game's main focus to be WPvP even though it's just a server rule that enables that. So instead of forcing people to join Warbound, how about we remove it, transfer everyone to Entity, and add a new area specifically designed for World PvP where everyone is temporarily boosted to level 50? Hell, the map can even change in minor ways every week or so. At least then, more of these battles that you love so much will exist more often and be on fair ground. But the WPvP that you keep talking about isn't fun to a huge amount of people. It's not just the population that's turning them away, it's the fact that they don't want to WPvP.
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Yeah, and that's like one in a million. I played on a PvP server in WoW for 5 years, I had good world PvP experience like 5% of the time. In theory it sounds awesome, but it just doesn't work. It quickly becomes a boring zergfest most of the time. But what you are describing, can be done on a PvE realm as well, you just have to falg yourself for PvP. So I don't really get why we need separated servers with forced flag.
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Thank you so much for this thread! That other one, while it had good intentions, probably turned more people away from PvP than helped. In order to encourage more players to roll on PvP servers, I was thinking you could devote some time (like an hour a day for a certain amount of time) guarding lowbies who are leveling so they don't get ganked. I think this would encourage more players to at least give it a try if this is included with generally being helpful.
 
I have a guild and such on the PvE server and I just prefer PvE, but I wanted to support a more positive thread about getting players on the PvP servers and suggest a way to help.  :)
 
Edit: Ahahahaha I made a typo saying I prefer PvP when I prefer PvE. Carry on!
			
				
	Edited September 30, 2015 by Spider Bro Jenkins	
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I might add that free server transfer's were both ways up until roughly a week ago when they shut it down for f2p and now you have to pay.  They gave people ample warning to go back to the PvP server, phew at least I got that out of the way.  While I never persuaded them to come to pve, I was going to be transparent about the (what used to be) current situation of why Warhound was barren (ie - when the pve'ers effectively left in droves the market crashed, thus the free transfer either way).
 
I love PVP, don't get me wrong and support a population growing on Warhound.  That being said, as far as I know most here on the forums were directing people to pve servers (****BEFORE F2P****) because new players would always ask why the server was so barren and we gave them the answer (more often than not giving them the shortened answer of "just xfer to Entity")  if they asked why then we gave them the answer (or at least I did).  If they stayed, then they stayed, simple as that.
 
Heck one of these days I might try a pvp server, on pve due to my guild being there.	
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Using that analogy, anything in life has no freedom of choice. Technically someone can run in to my office right now and shoot me. I have no say in it. He'd literally be forcing me in to that situation. Just because something CAN happen doesn't mean it WILL happen. And even if it does, there's no telling how often or at what rate.
 
The simple truth is that PvP servers offer MORE Freedom of Choice, not less. How could having the option to kill someone be less of a choice? People who prefer PvE servers like that this choice is removed. You can't randomly gank someone. You can't force someone to fight you. You have control because the freedom of someone else wanting to attack you is removed.
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I played WoW as well and had plenty of times where I flipped the script on a ganker. I remember one time in Tanaris when I got jumped by an undead rogue on my fury warrior and chain-critted him to death before he could kill me. He showed up for his corpse, /bowed and left. Does it happen all the time? Maybe not, but it's worth it when it does AND it's only one aspect of WPvP that the PvP server offers that PvE cannot. Another is counter griefing, where you actively hunt the troublemakers. Just last night I killed a level 50 stalker trying to grief lowbies in Algoroc. The greifer had a good run, I chased him. we played cat and mouse a bit and he died. The lowbies got on with their leveling.
 
PvP servers aren't exclusively gankfests. in fact, they're just like a PvE server 95% of the time, except they fit the lore a little better and give some extra excitement.
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I agree, it is rather fun to flip the script on someone trying to gank you. I guess the difference in opinion is the meanings everyone puts behind ganking. I have stated I don't mind getting ganked (be it same level, if they can take me  ;), or high level) if its a passerby. My issue has always been campers, mainly high level players bored roaming low level areas for hours on end to grief new players (this I haven't experienced in Wildstar yet). Camping can be a rare occasion, although not so rare in certain games, however I still wish a down level system was in place. Flipping the script on a player that has been down leveled is still challenging but at least it is doable.
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Back before the first launch, There was a lot of discussion about how to make WPvP better and pretty much all of it got shot down by the hardcore arena guys before launch even happened. My suggestion was to have a bounty system so when a high level player came into a zone and killed anyone their level or lower 2 or 3 times, a bounty would be put on them to incentivse experienced PvPers to deal with troublesome players instead of trying to report or something else. Successfully killing a bounty head would net you some kind of reward once you got so many kills (500, 1000?): I wanted cosmetics and titles unique to both factions (Titles: justice, judge, etc for Exiles and equivalent for Dommie counterparts).
 
I also pushed for implementing dual armor sets: one for PvP and one for PvE so you could only really use your uber PvP gear in PvP instances where it's balanced around and not out gearstomping lowbies or same levels who are trying to down worldbosses or whatever in their PvE stuff and would also cut the number of armor sets clogging your inventory by half. The hardcore PvP guys didn't like that and everyone else was silent, so it fell on deaf ears.
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I know, I was one of the people along side you fighting to get something like that in the game. That is the other issue is the difference in PvPers, but that is a whole can of worms i rather not open.
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			I for one, am loving the PVP server more than I did the PVE server honestly. People are more inclined to help one another I've noticed, and a lot of people watch out for one another. Even when lowbies were getting ganked out in Algoroc, there were high level players who formed a counter-offensive to help those lower level players out. It's not that scary everybody. Just give it a whirl. Also this is Sort of off topic, but can we start a petition to change the label of PVP Server to Git Gud Server? 	
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Also this is Sort of off topic, but can we start a petition to change the label of PVP Server to Git Gud Server? 
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That will probably run counter to the goal of inviting more players in.  :P
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Lol I don't either, kind of why i liked DAoC so much. Only the min/max in DAoC was a bit annoying but i guess you cant have it both ways. Its hard to feel like you are making any personal progression, if everything always stays the same. Realm ranks where great in DAoC as you still felt like you where achieving something personally. The systems MMOs have set in place have all been counter productive. Its been a domino effect from the times of games like DAoC to current games. Devs tried to make things new and interesting which was great upon the first releases of the new ideas, but as time progressed they starter to compound the problems those systems started to exhibit. People became used to those systems and older players became the "crazy" people. However, now i am getting off topic and kind of an old glory days rant so i shall stop here  :blink:  :P  
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I personally don't like segregated gear for PvP and PvE, but if they DO have different gear progressions, they need to make sure they stay separate, imo. Giving PvP gear to greifers to run around in the open world with is bad mojo.
 
Once this transition stuff blows over, it might be a good time to suggest it again as soemthing for Carbine to work on. It would go a long way to making the PvP server both more interesting and more inviting to players who want to try it. I think a lot of current PvEers could be really great PvPers, but getting up to snuff with learning how to PvP is daunting enough without the extra gear gap. Plus high levels coming in to help can't hurt.
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			I only played Wildstar the first couple weeks at launch so practically new to the game. The choice between PvE and PvP was pretty easy. Because the PvP servers were "dead" they are also the first to die again if population problems return. World PvP is also terrible in almost every MMO ever made. There are some exceptions but very few, and if Wildstar was one of them the PvP servers would have never died.	
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If you loved DAoC and haven't heard about it yet, look in to Camelot Unchained. 
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Oh I have, trust me, I have. It is just taking forever to be done, so i haven't kept up with it lately. I keep eyes on lots of games, but some games seem to be taking an extremely longer time to get to a beta, heck some have been in development for a while but don't even have a semi working alpha going yet  :angry:
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They had a decent steam last week talking about classes. They're gonna be announcing 1 new class every week now for like 10 weeks. I'm bummed the game isn't going to follow it's original schedule, but I can easily see a Closed/Open Beta in 2016. If they can deliver on their promises Camelot Unchained is gonna be where it's at!
 
They also released a few new models and they look solid. Since they just hired 2 new big time employees I'd expect the game to move along a lot quicker now!
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Thanks for the info, i will have to check it out.
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