120566-recent-dungeonpve-experience

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Earlier today i jumped online to run some dungeons, got an immediate que pop, told the group that even though i had decent gear, i hadnt run skullkano too much, but should be fine anyway. i had to go afk for a secon, and  come back after maybe 2 minutes max. 2 of the party members comment some snarky stuff about wasting time their time and how its gonna be a failure because i dont know the run by heart etc etc. i mean to where they spout off for a few minutes then rage leave. is that necessary?
 
well in my defense im a pretty good player and im good at a lot of different types of games. I also have played a ton of pvp and ran the other dungeons maybe 25 times in total, so not a ton of pve, but i know how to play the game.
 
 
I hate to stereotype, but it seems a lot of the raiders are very picky in groups and have bad attitudes. now that isnt to stereotype because i have met some very nice and very experienced pve players, but for the majority it seems they wear a tight belt. 
 
secondly, EVERYONE should be promoting a healthy and friendly outgoing vibe at these times because the game is suffering tremendously due to the population factor. yes, carbine has made grave mistakes and is picking up the pieces slower than wished, but its becoming a snowball effect. 
 
this experience makes me want to find a different mmo
 
 	
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I'm sorry you had a bad experience :( ..There will always be elitist jerks out there and we can't do much about it.
Sometimes it's best just not saying anything (don't mention that your experience is limited) maybe except if you're the tank or healer and unsure about some fight mechanics.. In that case by all means, ask! 
 
What I really suggest doing though, is if you haven't already, join a PvE circle or guild. It's much, much more fun running with friends or a premade group. Runs go usually a lot more smoothly when they're organised, especially when running with new players. 
 
I did have some great PUG runs in the past, but it always varies. You never know who you're going to group with.	
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			It's something you see in every MMO, getting sour about it really won't matter. At least people aren't asking for gear score when you enter a dungeon since we don't have that :P.	
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Earlier today i jumped online to run some dungeons, got an immediate que pop, told the group that even though i had decent gear, i hadnt run skullkano too much, but should be fine anyway. i had to go afk for a secon, and  come back after maybe 2 minutes max. 2 of the party members comment some snarky stuff about wasting time their time and how its gonna be a failure because i dont know the run by heart etc etc. i mean to where they spout off for a few minutes then rage leave. is that necessary?
 
well in my defense im a pretty good player and im good at a lot of different types of games. I also have played a ton of pvp and ran the other dungeons maybe 25 times in total, so not a ton of pve, but i know how to play the game.
 
 
I hate to stereotype, but it seems a lot of the raiders are very picky in groups and have bad attitudes. now that isnt to stereotype because i have met some very nice and very experienced pve players, but for the majority it seems they wear a tight belt. 
 
secondly, EVERYONE should be promoting a healthy and friendly outgoing vibe at these times because the game is suffering tremendously due to the population factor. yes, carbine has made grave mistakes and is picking up the pieces slower than wished, but its becoming a snowball effect. 
 
this experience makes me want to find a different mmo
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			Sadly, challenging content does that: it turns groups that would be otherwise silent or 'okay' into acidic barbarians. It's not actually the fault of the content, mind. It's the people who choose to act like jerks. They want to succeed as often as possible instead of just having fun with it.	
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			What makes you think they were raiders? it feels like raiders get the blame for everything that goes wrong lately.	
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Hardcore!
 
Seriously though hardcore PVErs are generally not nice like hardcore PVPers... I guess next time you should link the achievement for soloing Hogger and Frogger.
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Anyone who PuGs a group and then complains about the people they get should be laughed off the Internet. What do they expect? Seriously, these have got to be probably the least intelligent people on the planet for all their Leet GamerSkillz.
 
If people want quick easy wins, run with a guild or static group. If you want to play have fun and derp around a bit, feel free to pick a random.
 
You didn't waste their time Limit, THEY did.
 
EDIT: This reminds me of the first time I queued up for Vet SSM with a friend. We asked that we be helped by letting us know clearly any trouble spots that we should watch out for. The group told us nothing. By the time we got past the Big Green Guy, they proceeded to tell us that our DPS was terrible, that our interrupts were terrible. Me and my friend kinda looked at each other like. "Ummmm... DUH."
 
And to be clear, they were raiders, that group is recruiting all the time.  There's probably a reason for that. :lol:	
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...
If people want quick easy wins, run with a guild or static group. If you want to play have fun and derp around a bit, feel free to pick a random.
...
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I doubt these were raiders of any caliber because with entry level raid gear it's easy to drag someone through SC if you know the instance.
 
For those saying, "what happened to playing for fun?"- it isn't "fun" to wipe over and over again with little hope of success. However, that is less about knowledge of the instance and more about skill and gear. It doesn't phase me at all to get into an instance and have someone say they don't know it very well, but to get into an instance where people are undergeared is a miserable experience. OFTEN the two go hand in hand (which is while I'll inspect as soon as someone says they are new so I can see what we are dealing with).
 
I've had plenty of successful runs with new players who were skilled and reasonably geared- we had a few wipes, but it was fun and they learned the instance. 	
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If people want quick easy wins, run with a guild or static group. If you want to play have fun and derp around a bit, feel free to pick a random.
 
 
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No one here is condoning trolling or sand-bagging in PUGs.  We're simply pointing out that if you queue for a PUG, you really need a more laid back attitude since you probably won't get a textbook run.  Expecting a speed clear is right out.
 
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...
this experience makes me want to find a different mmo
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i take offense to that.
 
@OP
 
in general there are not to many dungeon queue pops normally it is the same people over and over again. this has been my experience for the past 2 weeks for doing around 20-30 dungeons a day. if you are iffy on a dungeon there are tons of resources out there like vids to look at for a quick refresher. if that isnt your style i would suggest not mentioning it to the group, because more than anything it shows a lack of confidence
 
if you have absolutely no experience in a dungeon i would highly suggest a pre-made group. because at that point you would just be asking for verbal abuse. dungeons in this game are difficult and they require some amount of knowledge to surpass them. not everyone wants to spend an inordinate amount of time on a run having gone in thinking they could get a quick 20min run in before dinner. give others the benefit of the doubt, do not be baffled if 4 other players dont want to help teach you a dungeon instead of actually run one.
 
this is not a "wildstar has a bad community" or a "wildstar is full of elitists" thing. not everyone has the time or the patience to teach someone a run. this community isnt toxic, raiders arnt douche bags, no ones shit doesnt stink. lets not make a big deal out of this since it isnt really anything new since the dawn of online gaming.
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What makes you think they were raiders? it feels like raiders get the blame for everything that goes wrong lately.
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I doubt these were raiders of any caliber because with entry level raid gear it's easy to drag someone through SC if you know the instance.
 
For those saying, "what happened to playing for fun?"- it isn't "fun" to wipe over and over again with little hope of success. However, that is less about knowledge of the instance and more about skill and gear. It doesn't phase me at all to get into an instance and have someone say they don't know it very well, but to get into an instance where people are undergeared is a miserable experience. OFTEN the two go hand in hand (which is while I'll inspect as soon as someone says they are new so I can see what we are dealing with).
 
I've had plenty of successful runs with new players who were skilled and reasonably geared- we had a few wipes, but it was fun and they learned the instance. 
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Anyone who PuGs a group and then complains about the people they get should be laughed off the Internet. What do they expect? Seriously, these have got to be probably the least intelligent people on the planet for all their Leet GamerSkillz.
 
If people want quick easy wins, run with a guild or static group. If you want to play have fun and derp around a bit, feel free to pick a random.
 
You didn't waste their time Limit, THEY did.
 
EDIT: This reminds me of the first time I queued up for Vet SSM with a friend. We asked that we be helped by letting us know clearly any trouble spots that we should watch out for. The group told us nothing. By the time we got past the Big Green Guy, they proceeded to tell us that our DPS was terrible, that our interrupts were terrible. Me and my friend kinda looked at each other like. "Ummmm... DUH."
 
And to be clear, they were raiders, that group is recruiting all the time.  There's probably a reason for that. :lol:
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you CLEARLY didnt read the post.
 
you CLEARLY are the same as those other pve'rs.
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			I would have done the same thing as your group did without the raging. The reason being going afk at the start. First I would've tried to votekick you. If not succeeding I'd leave myself.If you don't respect other peoples time even as little as queuing after you are actually ready, I don't want to play with you. Immediate que pops as a tank aren't rare you know.	
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Earlier today i jumped online to run some dungeons, got an immediate que pop, told the group that even though i had decent gear, i hadnt run skullkano too much, but should be fine anyway. i had to go afk for a secon, and  come back after maybe 2 minutes max. 2 of the party members comment some snarky stuff about wasting time their time and how its gonna be a failure because i dont know the run by heart etc etc. i mean to where they spout off for a few minutes then rage leave. is that necessary?
 
well in my defense im a pretty good player and im good at a lot of different types of games. I also have played a ton of pvp and ran the other dungeons maybe 25 times in total, so not a ton of pve, but i know how to play the game.
 
 
I hate to stereotype, but it seems a lot of the raiders are very picky in groups and have bad attitudes. now that isnt to stereotype because i have met some very nice and very experienced pve players, but for the majority it seems they wear a tight belt. 
 
secondly, EVERYONE should be promoting a healthy and friendly outgoing vibe at these times because the game is suffering tremendously due to the population factor. yes, carbine has made grave mistakes and is picking up the pieces slower than wished, but its becoming a snowball effect. 
 
this experience makes me want to find a different mmo
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I would have done the same thing as your group did without the raging. The reason being going afk at the start. First I would've tried to votekick you. If not succeeding I'd leave myself.
 
If you don't respect other peoples time even as little as queuing after you are actually ready, I don't want to play with you. Immediate que pops as a tank aren't rare you know.
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I wonder how much of this crap could be avoided if the group finder simply had a toggle button that says "Hardcore". If you toggle it on, it only includes people in your queue who also have that option toggled on.
 
And then those who want speedy elite perfection can easily filter out all of us imperfect losers who don't think that ragequitting is an appropriate response to a teammate who AFKs for a minute to go pee. Which will assuredly make us just as happy as it makes them. Maybe happier.	
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			Ffxiv has this option. You can ask for High level, learning, Cutscenes etc.	
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this is not the case however
i have 34k hp, 7.5k armor, 22% deflect, 13 deflect crit, so i dont have horrible stats for a tank stalker. and i have ran the dungeon before. i simply said "i havent ran this much, but i am an experienced player'
 
boom ragefest. 
 
 
i want a community that welcomes anyone. I am an experienced player which pissed me off because didnt even start the first fight without 2 people dropping out, its a joke. 
 
pve'ers need to take a step into their role as part of the community, especially since a lot of us pvpers have put a lot of energy into spurring new players. this is not one of those ways. 
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No it doesn't revolve around one person...
 
One time, I was in an Vet STL pug with one new person. They were typical: happy to be there, dead in 2 seconds flat.  We got to the last fight and the person wanted to read up on the fight because he never actually got there. One person who was apparently at the end of his rope by then said to kick him. "He's useless! He contributes nothing! Why should we set here and wait for him to read up on something that he's going to be useless on ANYWAY?"
 
We kicked the whiner.
 
The world apparently didn't revolve around him... at least not at that moment.	
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Dear God, do you really think that if someone knocks on the door at the start of the dungeon, that you still have to ignore it? Or that if someone calls on the phone, you have to put it on mute and can't even answer just to say you are busy and will be able to talk in about two hours? 
 
Plus, it's normal at the start of the dungeon that people need time to get things together, people change specs, put on other gear, maybe reload UI if it bugs out. I'm a tank and usually when I zone in, I have to wait at least 3 minutes for everyone to get ready. It's no big deal.
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"Wait a sec I'm changing spec/gear" is not "I need fast afk" .. Too many times these fast afks end up to be 15 minutes of waiting for the player to disconnect or leave without saying anything.
 
So why not do that random fast afk (taking a leak/dump) before you press that queue button? Do you enjoy people waiting while you're pushing that python out?
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Well. Unfortunately the current dungeon system isn't very conducive to helping other players or messing around. The medal system doesn't allow for that sort of thing and makes it very difficult to get a good rating if you're not well experienced with a dungeon already. Ive had plenty of bad (and good) PUGs in all the mmos I've played, thats just going to be what happens when you stick a bunch of strangers together in a stressful situation. However, the current system exacerbates the issue by making everything feel rushed and more stressed and punishing you heavily for small mistakes. 
 
When i do run pugs, i have found it necessary to maintain a very cheerful attitude and try to keep things light and friendly. It also helps to spend a minute at the very start getting the group to decide what it wants out of the run. First thing i usually do is say Hi, ask if anyone is new, and then ask what medal we want to go for. If someones new, i hold up the group and make sure to explain everything. When i was new, i made sure to remind everyone before every fight that i didnt know it. 
 
It seems like the runs go smoother and people get less stressed out and ragey about mistakes if you spend a minute getting all that out on the table first, as well as staying really positive as much as possible. Since i started doing that most of the pug runs ive done seem to have gone pretty well. 
 
Granted i think ive only ever gotten something other than a bronze in a pug dungeon once... But frankly if youre looking for silvers and golds i think youre much better off grabbing guildmates and being on teamspeak ^^	
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Well. Unfortunately the current dungeon system isn't very conducive to helping other players or messing around. The medal system doesn't allow for that sort of thing and makes it very difficult to get a good rating if you're not well experienced with a dungeon already. Ive had plenty of bad (and good) PUGs in all the mmos I've played, thats just going to be what happens when you stick a bunch of strangers together in a stressful situation. However, the current system exacerbates the issue by making everything feel rushed and more stressed and punishing you heavily for small mistakes.
 
When i do run pugs, i have found it necessary to maintain a very cheerful attitude and try to keep things light and friendly. It also helps to spend a minute at the very start getting the group to decide what it wants out of the run. First thing i usually do is say Hi, ask if anyone is new, and then ask what medal we want to go for. If someones new, i hold up the group and make sure to explain everything. When i was new, i made sure to remind everyone before every fight that i didnt know it.
 
It seems like the runs go smoother and people get less stressed out and ragey about mistakes if you spend a minute getting all that out on the table first, as well as staying really positive as much as possible. Since i started doing that most of the pug runs ive done seem to have gone pretty well.
 
Granted i think ive only ever gotten something other than a bronze in a pug dungeon once... But frankly if youre looking for silvers and golds i think youre much better off grabbing guildmates and being on teamspeak ^^
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"Wait a sec I'm changing spec/gear" is not "I need fast afk" .. Too many times these fast afks end up to be 15 minutes of waiting for the player to disconnect or leave without saying anything.
 
So why not do that random fast afk (taking a leak/dump) before you press that queue button? Do you enjoy people waiting while you're pushing that python out?
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I hate to stereotype, but it seems a lot of the raiders are very picky in groups and have bad attitudes. now that isnt to stereotype because i have met some very nice and very experienced pve players, but for the majority it seems they wear a tight belt. 
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.....and can honestly say I've seen a lot more toxicity in WS group content than I see in LoL on the rift. 
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if someone says "brb 20min" in a dungeon you should wait through that 20min. i mean it is a pug run so you had this coming.
 
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			Uhm nifty, Mr Ck was being sarcastic, that whole post you took a quote from was just one giant sarcastic post.	
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Uhm nifty, Mr Ck was being sarcastic, that whole post you took a quote from was just one giant sarcastic post.
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I basically only play 2 games - WS and LoL. I pug dungeons all the time and can honestly say I've seen a lot more toxicity in WS group content than I see in LoL on the rift. 
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It's something you see in every MMO, getting sour about it really won't matter. At least people aren't asking for gear score when you enter a dungeon since we don't have that :P.
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What makes you think they were raiders? it feels like raiders get the blame for everything that goes wrong lately.
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Pretty much, "WS is dead because they listened to the HC audience", "Raiding gear ruined PvP", "WS keeps catering to the HC raiders", "Hardcore players are mean".
 
The actually truth is a lot of these fake HC players that are pushing the dumb ass agenda. The fake HC audience wanted dungeons to stay at silver attunement. Most actually raiders what the game to be more accessible to all players, while the fake HC audience think their bullshit achievement should put them a head of avg players.
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I'm just finished download the games and lvled my first character to lvl 5.
From what you just said, this game more into Hard Core player or elites, is there any room for casual player like me?
I'm working, maybe around weekend I can play, weekdays maybe not much, 2 hours max maybe.
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No it doesn't revolve around one person...
 
One time, I was in an Vet STL pug with one new person. They were typical: happy to be there, dead in 2 seconds flat.  We got to the last fight and the person wanted to read up on the fight because he never actually got there. One person who was apparently at the end of his rope by then said to kick him. "He's useless! He contributes nothing! Why should we set here and wait for him to read up on something that he's going to be useless on ANYWAY?"
 
We kicked the whiner.
 
The world apparently didn't revolve around him... at least not at that moment.
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Pretty much, "WS is dead because they listened to the HC audience", "Raiding gear ruined PvP", "WS keeps catering to the HC raiders", "Hardcore players are mean".
 
The actually truth is a lot of these fake HC players that are pushing the dumb ass agenda. The fake HC audience wanted dungeons to stay at silver attunement. Most actually raiders what the game to be more accessible to all players, while the fake HC audience think their bullshit achievement should put them a head of avg players.
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			I would consider myself a serious raider and i do dungeons all the time, so does spythe as well as a lot other enigma members. its a great way to pass time between raids.	
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To be honest from the OP I would be surprised if those guys were raiders, as cereal raiders wouldn't really be pugging dungeons anymore.
 
 
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I would consider myself a serious raider and i do dungeons all the time, so does spythe as well as a lot other enigma members. its a great way to pass time between raids.
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Next time I see their spamvertisements in Thayd about their GA 6/6 I'll bring this up.
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When you pug, do you kick people for being new, though?
 
I'm not even a raider, but my gear is good enough that if I'm grouping with my buddies we generally aren't too concerned about newbies because we generally can drag them through- especially if we are all dps and the new player is a tank or healer.
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When you pug, do you kick people for being new, though?
 
I'm not even a raider, but my gear is good enough that if I'm grouping with my buddies we generally aren't too concerned about newbies because we generally can drag them through- especially if we are all dps and the new player is a tank or healer.
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I once did a pug where it was me tanking on my alt, some new player who had no idea what he was doing (but a nice guy who was trying hard- he joined my guild after the run) and 3 6/6 guild tags (one healer, two dps- all different guilds). I kid you not- it was the worst STL run ever. We wiped so many times I don't even know what to say, and we couldn't survive the pushback phase on Stormtalon. One of the 6/6 dps guys would die every time. The healer abused the two 6/6 guys pretty harsh, and when the new guy said "look, I'm new it's probably me" the healer said "no- it's not you- you're fine".
 
I honestly don't know what was going on- but those 6/6 DPS guys were just awful, even though they were in raid gear (as in, not new recruits or alts or anything).
 
We eventually disbanded because we couldn't get to the Eye of the Storm phase on the final boss.
 
So ever since then, I take 6/6 with a grain of salt.
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Sadly, even if someone in your guild acted that way, the odds of you hearing about it are slim.
 
I'm not going to go up and tell every leader of a guild that I see, "Hey your member was a huge jerk that one time." I'm just not going to join their guild, or let my friends join them. So the jerks of the world out there are running around quietly undermining their guild's credibility and name.
 
It's funny to see that for all of their efforts at recruiting. If I dropped the guild name here, all these people would know is that they're probably not real raiders, they're probably carrying bad players in their raids and that one member is a jerk.
 
All from a single altercation.	
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Sadly, even if someone in your guild acted that way, the odds of you hearing about it are slim.
 
I'm not going to go up and tell every leader of a guild that I see, "Hey your member was a huge jerk that one time." I'm just not going to join their guild, or let my friends join them. So the jerks of the world out there are running around quietly undermining their guild's credibility and name.
 
It's funny to see that for all of their efforts at recruiting. If I dropped the guild name here, all these people would know is that they're probably not real raiders, they're probably carrying bad players in their raids and that one member is a jerk.
 
All from a single altercation.
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Nah, he had raid gear. Maybe he was a new recruit for another raid group... blah blah...
 
But there's no excuse for that behavior. And I see it from a lot of people in raid gear. It's pretty much gotten to the point that the minute I see sass from someone complaining about others that are new to the dungeon they go on ignore.	
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Why is it OK to derp around and waste a PUG's time but not your premade's time?
 
On one side we have PUG's that take the game way too seriously, on the other we have PUG's that look at PUG'ing like it's not valuable so it's OK to be a time-wasting goof.  When they group together, it's always the others fault when the run fails, neither wants to ever see how they contributed to the failing.  One group needs to lighten up, and the other group needs to grow up.  And both need to find premades that fit their style to run with if they don't want the drama that comes from foisting their playstyle on others that don't share it.  I don't understand the whole deal of "Oh if you're not serious, go waste PUG's time."  Why is their time less valuable?
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I would think logic dictates because you are playing with "random" players, expectations should be lowered as the range of experience to quality can be from zero to hero so expect to always be at zero. Not so much as wasting people's times on purpose.
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This is sooooo untrue I can't even begin to describe it. I mean LoL is a game made by the devil to spread madness, rage and frustration among it's huge playerbase. Wildstars playerbase is fine in my experience. Theres some dicks, but most are just decently behaving people.
 
Decent behavior doesn't mean you wait for some 15 year old to finish his dinner because mommy told him to eat or some nerd dying to heart attack cause he hadn't moved from his chair in the last 72 hours. You pay to play this game to have fun. Everyone doesn't get along with everyone and some people are just outrageously annoying and you don't have to deal with that. You don't have to keep dragging someone through a dungeon that won't even consider being wrong when he insists hybrid builds are the best. You don't have to drag along someone who constantly makes mistakes and blames others no matter how nice you try to tell him what he is doing wrong. And most importantly you don't have to wait for someone to take a $hit. If he's in such pain before the queue pops that he can't sit for 30-60 minutes longer his problems lie deeper..
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I see where you're coming from there about keeping expectations low and I agree with it, but that post was in direct response to Rocio specifically saying to use randoms to "derp around a bit".  I was addressing the attitude that people have that PUG's don't deserve to be taken seriously, it's OK to waste their time, to treat them like dirt, etc..., just because they're PUGs.  
 
 :)
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You missed the point of my post entirely so I didn't respond to you.
 
I encourage you to read my post again and if you still don't get it, then I really don't know what else to say because that's the exactly the issue with people who enter a PuG with expectations of getting things done within a certain time limit.
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