126784-feedback-f2p-announcement-faq-page-7

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Posted this in the wrong place originally:
 
1. I learned about the game 4 days after launch and bought the game in the first week. I have never lapsed my sub. Have you considered a reward for those of us who have missed less then one month of sub total since launch? 
 
2. Things I want to give you money for:
 
- Bags with 20 slots (I need 9 of these)
- More then 6 costume slots
- Repair tokens (repairs all equipped gear on consumption)
- Housing plot auction house plug
 
3. Clarification on rewards for paying:
- If i bought a credd, and then sold it though the cred exchange to i get loyalty points for it?
- Do i get the same amount of loyalty points for 1 credd purchase as one month sub or is loyalty points based on the "dollar" value of purchase
- If i bought 5 box copies do each contribute the same amount of loyalty points? Would i get the 5x the loyalty points for 5 boxes as I would if I bought one box? 
- If i bought credd from the exchange using plat do i get loyalty points for the purchase?
- If i bought a name change will I get loyalty points? 
- Do i get the same amount of loyalty points for each copy of the game i purchase (be it digital or Box)	
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Posted this in the wrong place originally:
 
1. I learned about the game 4 days after launch and bought the game in the first week. I have never lapsed my sub. Have you considered a reward for those of us who have missed less then one month of sub total since launch?
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Will those who have a premium account during f2p also get an "allowance" of omnibits? or will they need to spend additional cash in the cash shop?
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You're missing something tho... My issue is not with being unsubbed for a few days or coming to the game late... My issue is with being subbed every single day since release but not with the recurring method, therefore it is BOUND to drop even for a few minutes before you attempt to log in and it tells you to pay... So despite being subbed and online every single day since release, your method is considering me unloyal... That is a flawed system.
 
How could it be fair that someone who had been online everyday the entire life of Wildstar is considered not eligible? 
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Imma add to this that i think the upset over the mount is a bit excessive.
 
I thought I had lost out because I canceled my sub and "oh well. damn, ohwell" I asked to make sure, but "oh well" was my reaction.
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So the general information given so far is that "if you have a continuous subscription or, without a lapse" from launch to F2P, you'll get the mount".
 
But what is "continuous" exactly or can you clarify what you define a "lapse" as?
 
1. Having paid your subscription fee EVERY month meaning say you missed a day due to CC issues or didn't get your CREDD activated for a few hours but you have paid your subscription every month.
2. No interruptions at all meaning not 1 single second of missed time.
 
Can a dev please confirm or explain this.
 
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There's a difference between being able to buy a raid-quality item from a cash shop with real money without anyone putting any effort into getting the item, and someone having to have put the effort into getting to raid and consequently getting a drop they decide to sell on the AH.
 
In the first case the item hasn't been earned, it's just been bought because the person is too lazy to play the game and wants everything handed over on a silver plate. In the second case the person who originally received the drop earned it through their time spent in getting ready to raid, learning the raids and consequently killing the boss required for the drop. They earned the item, and they have the right to sell it, if they so wish, for in-game money.
 
This does mean that someone with more money than will to put the effort in can buy the item with plat or cash through CREDD but the item was still earned as opposed to bought by someone unwilling to spend the time in-game to deserve it.
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What bothers me most is their thoughts behind this. Did they seriously at any point in their countless meetings since the decision to go F2P was made, never considered that rewarding only a small percentage of their players could backfire? That alienating the vast majority of their playerbase, which got burned a lot by their own mistakes, could cause old players to not return even after the conversion or that current players would unsub and also never come back? Did no one ever wondered "what if we reward everyone that bought the game up to the announcement to show our appreciation to everyone that believed in us enough to give us their hard earned money before and after our own many mistakes. That way no one feels left out, old players that left for any reason feel motivated to return and give us another chance".
 
But no. This is 2006, after all. People would never be upset about that! Instead, they'll all feel motivated to always stay "loyal" from now on in order to not miss on anything anymore. After all, "loyalty" is by no means something hey should earn, but something Carbine is entitled to no matter how many times they dropped the ball and everyone that doesn't think so is a quitter.
 
Seriously Carbine, get a new PR team and hire a behaviorist psychologist to advise your future stunts. Not that I expect you guys to actually have any flexibility whatsoever in that or any other regard.
Like someone said earlier in this thread "A friend once told me that if Carbine rescued a box of kittens from a burning house, they'd find some way to make it look really like it had been a bad thing."
 
To be honest, I was really excited about the F2P release. I really thought Carbine mentality would change for the best and now the game would have a new and awesome beginning. I guess I was wrong. This is how things were and will be handled by them. And if it stays like this I can see this game becoming the new SWTOR over time.
 
That said, I won't be supporting Wildstar or Carbine any longer.	
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There's a difference between being able to buy a raid-quality item from a cash shop with real money without anyone putting any effort into getting the item, and someone having to have put the effort into getting to raid and consequently getting a drop they decide to sell on the AH.
 
In the first case the item hasn't been earned, it's just been bought because the person is too lazy to play the game and wants everything handed over on a silver plate. In the second case the person who originally received the drop earned it through their time spent in getting ready to raid, learning the raids and consequently killing the boss required for the drop. They earned the item, and they have the right to sell it, if they so wish, for in-game money.
 
This does mean that someone with more money than will to put the effort in can buy the item with plat or cash through CREDD but the item was still earned as opposed to bought by someone unwilling to spend the time in-game to deserve it.
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We'll be able to earn them in game, we don't need an "allowance" of them.
They really are giving us a lot of fluff for being subscribed.
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	Edited May 29, 2015 by Balf	
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so....
Guilds and Circles are behind a sub wall to make because off gold sellers, what about the arena teams?	
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Zombie, 
Are you talking about when game first released or how things are now?  Your implying now.  The game a year ago is really different from the game that is now.  Because alot of the insane grindiness has gone away.  Still a little grindy, but not nearly as bad and than again, what MMO isn't in some aspect?  Not nearly as bad as others.  And for the different difficulties, no.  Yes I can say hardcore, but that's raiding.  I wouldn't mind seeing an "easier" raid and I was hoping the boss in a box was going to be an easy raid to get raiders into the raiding scene but apparently it's alot harder than just X89.  I really don't think "hardcore" made everyone leave.  I really think it was bugs and little content in the beginning.  Hell, Contracts are so awesome that it has brought alot of life to casual/non-casual crowd, just need to clean up the rewards (yeah 100 EG 5x's in a row!).  IDK, but WoW was the big one that did tiered difficulty and I for one dislike it.  I understand you can do the content and get poeple in, but just takes the fun out of the game and the accomplishment.  But on the loot aspect in raids, alot of loot gets used, tier pieces almost aways get used, and the loot list in raids have dwindled alot to what it was.  Drop 4 fixed alot of stuff for raids and item drops.  A full clear of GA will get you at least one piece per person most of the time, especially if you don't have gear (a few pug GA's on the weekend).  Even if you don't get loot, you get a lot of Glory which buys some nice raid gear.  
 
And for the topic of p2w....well you can do that now.  Buy credd, sell it for plat, and purchase DS weapons/gear boe's.  My guild sold DataScape DS pistols that are better than the GA legendaries off of Ohmna for 150p last night.  That guy that got it, whoever it is, dps just went up alot.  I think it has 1500 AP on the item.  You can also purchase crafted GA gear (still really good).  The purchasing xp gains will get you more money and for that buying gear.  Or purchase a raid spot in a DS farming guild and you can get geared up quick.  I'm sure if you go to a guild that is on Avatus, doesn't really need gear from the early bosses, and be like, I'll pay blah blah blah for each piece, alot of guilds will do it so it funds the raiders repairs/runes/pots.  BUT that is the only way to get "power".  There will be no increase damage by 10% for 2 hours you can buy with money.  And THANK YOU for not including that or would break the game.  	
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Why are people so butthurt over the mount? I was here on and off since Beta and I'm not getting it. I wasn't here the entire time. The requirement is the requirement. There should be something for the truly dedicated. They invested heavily for that mount.
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Why are people so butthurt over the mount? 
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Why are people so butthurt over the mount? I was here on and off since Beta and I'm not getting it. I wasn't here the entire time. The requirement is the requirement. There should be something for the truly dedicated. They invested heavily for that mount.
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So, Mike D just dropped the term N-Coin on the stream, which gives you access to the same things that Omnibits currency... this seems to be getting really confusing.
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Yep, for a few hours at most as I didn't notice I didn't reactivated instantly after I cancelled (to change sub plan).
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  I wouldn't mind seeing an "easier".Raid
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Because the ones that were here the entire time want stuff like that due to the dedication in this game.  It's a matter of pride too.  There's more than enough that had there account "innactive" for 1 day, let alone hours because of changing Credit Cards or there was an error in the autorenewal service on NCSoft/Carbine side.  And the way things have been said, these people will not get mounts.  I am one of them, and it sucks.  I think one time in December, had a different card and renewal went thru and wasn't active for about 8 hours.  
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What happens if I click the button "Redeem CREDD"?
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I would hope they get an allowance of nCoins, not just the omnibits as the nCoin shop will have exclusive items. 
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Why are people so butthurt over the mount? I was here on and off since Beta and I'm not getting it. I wasn't here the entire time. The requirement is the requirement. There should be something for the truly dedicated. They invested heavily for that mount.
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Because even the truly dedicated are not getting it due to issues Carbine/NCsoft account services had themselves. Or the CREDD service. Because of the lack of tech that carbine has to look over these momentary lapses that were completely out of player control. People who never quit the game even for a day are not going to get anything. I'm not even entirely sure that people care specifically about the mount.
 
 
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RE: The mount and title.
 
I have to preface this.  I do not quality for them and I do not think I should qualify for them. I've been gone a long time. I don't even care for the DJ and music and slug pet, I re-subbed for the pink rowsdower (sheep!) (also the good things I've been reading in the last couple of months - holowardrobe, chop shop, vet shiphands, contracts, etc).
 
I think Carbine has yet again shot itself in the foot and ruined the community.  Not only are people upset with Carbine, but the community is yet again divided and FIGHTING. We had this over and over and over in the past with Carbine and it has only led to dedicated players leaving. My friends left over the fights about character customization versus content, other community members I respected (and myself) left over General Discussion/Morning Coffee drama... Come on, Carbine, will you please learn your lesson for once?  
 
Other games have gone f2p and just given rewards for having owned the box and for each month you subbed (etc). No need to draw a line in the sand between haves and have-nots. It's not a great idea.  I was VERY excited about a lot of development with Wildstar (mentioned above) and f2p hopefully increasing numbers. I couldn't bring myself to join another very empty niche game even though I saw Carbine finally gave people something to do when they didn't have 4+ friends online. But the excitement was dampened by 54 pages of reading and realize Carbine has not learn its lesson yet again.
 
Carbine should not have done the mount thing at all if they knew what is good for them. And they should not have made such strict requirements.  It could have been 30 pages of enthusiasm and instead half the 54+ pages are the opposite.
 
Don't be lazy. Don't be stubborn.  It has cost you good will from the naming drama (not restarting the whole process when your own services prevented people from getting the names) all the way to the f2p announcement.  You have split your community in two time and time again and it has not panned out for you.  I am getting nasty flashbacks to the threads about character customization before release.  Don't cannibalize all the positive you could be garnering with your f2p model (will comment on that model etc later).
 
Again, I don't want that pet, I don't want that title, I don't think I am entitled to it. It's the principle of the thing.	
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			This feels less like a Player Appreciation Program and more like a P.A.P. Smear.People are upset and feel like they're getting screwed.	
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On one hand, you intentionally chose to not use a recurring subscription.
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What bothers me most is their thoughts behind this. Did they seriously at any point in their countless meetings since the decision to go F2P was made, never considered that rewarding only a small percentage of their players could backfire? That alienating the vast majority of their playerbase, which got burned a lot by their own mistakes, could cause old players to not return even after the conversion or that current players would unsub and also never come back? Did no one ever wondered "what if we reward everyone that bought the game up to the announcement to show our appreciation to everyone that believed in us enough to give us their hard earned money before and after our own many mistakes. That way no one feels left out, old players that left for any reason feel motivated to return and give us another chance".
 
But no. This is 2006, after all. People would never be upset about that! Instead, they'll all feel motivated to always stay "loyal" from now on in order to not miss on anything anymore. After all, "loyalty" is by no means something hey should earn, but something Carbine is entitled to no matter how many times they dropped the ball and everyone that doesn't think so is a quitter.
 
Seriously Carbine, get a new PR team and hire a behaviorist psychologist to advise your future stunts. Not that I expect you guys to actually have any flexibility whatsoever in that or any other regard.
Like someone said earlier in this thread "A friend once told me that if Carbine rescued a box of kittens from a burning house, they'd find some way to make it look really like it had been a bad thing."
 
To be honest, I was really excited about the F2P release. I really thought Carbine mentality would change for the best and now the game would have a new and awesome beginning. I guess I was wrong. This is how things were and will be handled by them. And if it stays like this I can see this game becoming the new SWTOR over time.
 
That said, I won't be supporting Wildstar or Carbine any longer.
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really people are crying that much for a mount, dude i joined the 6th of june, 2 days, im still not mad its just a mount and im sure others will be more cool (want that data drifter so bad) just be happy for the people who have it and be happy that if you dont get it you will get a caretaker dj, a slug pet, a tittle, 4 months of signature account, loyalty account after signature and an amount of omnibits depending on how much months were you subscribed (on top of that the prices for the aniversary) 
 
so its like a list of 8 items, people that got subscribed all the time got 8/8 and the others 6/8, its not that difference, just rejoy on how the game probably will improve (i still have my doubts about f2p but im a positive person and will give wildstar a chance to probe me wrong, at this moment they are fairly doing it).
 
just be happy, but some people seems to like to rant about anything... well its the internet and that seems to be a sport here.
 
PD: they should have ued another words, the people  who got 6/8 would have been called loyalist, and people 8/8 the vanguard, that way people wouldnt complain that much, the thing here i that some people feel insulted when they told em they were not loyal enough	
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I know I've posted a bunch in this thread about how I feel, but I wanted to add another post since carbine is looking at this for feedback, and I've had a day to process the information at this point (as well as some stuff in the thread).
 
I want to specifically regard the cash shop. I've seen some people in this thread suggest things I never want to see in the cash shop, and what scares me is that some posters have even commented things like "so and so game does that and it's great". It's hard for me to think that people enjoy aspects of the cash shop I am so vehemently against.
 
Cash shop is great for: cosmetics. This includes outfits, mounts, pets.
Great For: utility. This includes name changes, gender swap, faction changes.
 
The cash shop is awful for: experience boosts, increased costume slots, increased bag space. If anything like that is added to the game, add it for players with the signature account without having to pay extra for it. Just give it with the sub.
 
Please please please do not put that in the cash shop. That is a huge turn off for me and opens the door for worse things that do not belong in a cash shop. I am scared because I see that others arent bothered by that and suggest it. Let me support you with my sub, and if I want to support you extra I will buy cosmetic stuff with irl monies instead of the in game currency offer. please be careful with the cash shop. micro-transactions are my biggest fear with F2P.
 
I've said before, I've never played a F2P mmo before, but F2P has so many negative connotations to myself and a lot of other gamers. It's associated with P2W and pay walls and nickle and dime ing for everything in the game.
 
What I want with this transition, is that as long as I continue to pay a sub, I don't notice anything different. I just get a cash shop for fun items (FUN not QoL tweaks) and more people to play with.
 
looking forward to the livestream tomorrow.
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On a side-note... I think I have a bit of a comical solution to those that DON'T qualify for the extra mount and title... any that don't qualify should get a consolation-prize mount... once that shows they probably got a bit lax with their subscription. Perhaps those that don't qualify could get a lop-sided, cross-eyed or lazy-eyed, slow-moving donkey with various spots of duct-tape all around it as if to hold it together, that occasionally drops a "souvenir" in its wake. Or some other slapstick kind of slow/awkward mount.  :D
 
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Demonmanu, on 29 May 2015 - 2:51 PM, said:really people are crying that much for a mount, dude i joined the 6th of june, 2 days, im still not mad its just a mount and im sure others will be more cool (want that data drifter so bad) just be happy for the people who have it and be happy that if you dont get it you will get a caretaker dj, a slug pet, a tittle, 4 months of signature account, loyalty account after signature and an amount of omnibits depending on how much months were you subscribed (on top of that the prices for the aniversary)
 
so its like a list of 8 items, people that got subscribed all the time got 8/8 and the others 6/8, its not that difference, just rejoy on how the game probably will improve (i still have my doubts about f2p but im a positive person and will give wildstar a chance to probe me wrong, at this moment they are fairly doing it).just be happy, but some people seems to like to rant about anything... well its the internet and that seems to be a sport here.PD: they should have ued another words, the people who got 6/8 would have been called loyalist, and people 8/8 the vanguard, that way people wouldnt complain that much, the thing here i that some people feel insulted when they told em they were not loyal enough 
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i want to know the math behind loyalty points.
 
for example, how many loyalty points do i get for purchasing the deluxe version?  
 
how many points would say...the ability to have 30 auctions?
 
if i got deluxe edition, would i get enough loyalty points to buy ONE of the signature bonuses?
 
This is very important because im BETTING its going to be INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE to the point where people will literally havce to play 1-2 months from 1, maybe 1 bonus unlock.
 
edit: i have one more
 
i saw this but wasnt understanding if it was confirmed...
 
if you pay for signature, what bonuses after you let signature lapse do you keep?  	
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so....
Guilds and Circles are behind a sub wall to make because off gold sellers, what about the arena teams?
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Why does it matter that i choose not recurring sub, that says nothing about my loyalty to the game, what matters is how many days i was subbed, if it was 100% of the days then i should be eligible.
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Well, the cash shop should be there for everyone... but, why not make those items available to subscribers for gold? Don't get me wrong, there may be a ton of technical, logistical or other reasons, but I think it deserves a discussion. Effectively erase anywhere you see "Omnibits" currency in the game, replace it with gold for subscribers.
 
Ok, now proceed to poke holes so we can tighten this idea up :)
 
Edit: Jeff hit on the sentiment: Collect extra money only from free players, let subscribers just play the game and have access that way without dealing with the extra currency.
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They are *not* behind a sub wall, read the FAQ better.
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so its like a list of 8 items, people that got subscribed all the time got 8/8 and the others 6/8, its not that difference, just rejoy on how the game probably will improve (i still have my doubts about f2p but im a positive person and will give wildstar a chance to probe me wrong, at this moment they are fairly doing it).
 
just be happy, but some people seems to like to rant about anything... well its the internet and that seems to be a sport here.
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You might want to actually check your transaction history.  In all honesty, in your case, you might be fine.  Since a person pays for 30 days at a time... unless you canceled the 3-month right within the last 3 hours before it expired, you were still technically "subbed", as in had left-over game time that hadn't run out.  So unless those three hours were no membership-account at all and unable to access the game, it shouldn't even show up as an issue to Carbine.  B)
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 Not getting the mount says nothing about your loyalty, just how you chose to subscribe.
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oh yes and my concerns for cash shop are for as follows.
 
paying for increased bag space/slots -please no
 
xp potions-i dont care honestly, leveling is just the beginning of the game.  if you want to hit endgame that fast i guess.  
 
paying for character slots-lets be honest, your going to do this, otherwise you would have had 4-6 character slots for free to play. so come clean please.
 
increased costume slots-your probably going to do this and its honestly bullshit and such a cheap trick.
 
the cash shop needs to be strictly limited to the following
-vanity pets
-mounts
-costumes
-decor
-name change
-faction change
(i cant think of anymore atm)
 
beyond this the vanity pets and decor and costume need to be just as able to be gotten thru the gameplay/crafting as any other item.  
 
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT INCREASE MAT COSTS OR DECREASE DROP RATES ON DECOR/COSTUME/VANITY PETS/MOUNTS TO ABSURD LEVELS TO BALANCE OUT WITH THE CASH SHOP...ITS CHEAP AND ITS BULLSHIT.
 
im hesitantly excited overall	
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sorry more thoughts swimming around in my head.
 
signature cost.  what is it.  is it 15 a month like sub is now? less? more? the fact you guys didnt put down a price tells me it might be more, wich is bad.  if you cant make it cheaper at least make it the same.
 
i also advocate for signature players to be able to purchase instore items with gold gotten from the game.  why?  cuz im supporting you monthly at that point.  	
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Silly easily distracted person that I am I forgot to instantly resubbed, so I found out my time was up when I got logged off saying that I needed more game time. So I never truly meant to unsub, I just made a small mistake at the time and I subbed as soon as I could wich was def less than 24 hours of inactivity. A few hours at most. :P
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TT sits within punching range of my desk. There's nothing we're selling that will help you get through raids any easier.
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Gratz 
 
@Eclips Yep. I'm not going to lie, I wasn't subbed for about 2-3 weeks in March? Does that invalidate the 11 other months though? I was there when the game was filled with bots flying left and right to nodes/trees. When servers were deserted and no server merges announcements. [etc]... But dismissing players like me because I was off for less than a month kinda sucks. 
 
It kinda hurts to be dismissed like that, especially after having vouched for this game through thick and thin. We'll see coming over the few days how this Player Appreciation thing will change (if at all). 
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They are *not* behind a sub wall, read the FAQ better.
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			So I have over 160 days of in-game time on all my characters + some more on ones, that are already deleted. Sure at least part of that is just being online, but AFK. I have spend at least few days (combined game time) on PTR testing stuff and giving some feedback to Carbine. On top of that I have spend quiet some time on forum. I have missed my sub once for few hours and I am basically less loyal/dedicated player, than some1 that bought game, pay 1y of sub ahead and have left after 2 weeks?? If I wouldn't get that *cupcake*ing mount, I will just most likely RIP and it applies not only to my person. It's not even about mount itself, but I would just feel cheated.	
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Subscribe with credit card. Random server-side issues with NCsoft/Carbine cause your account to lapse. How else do I subscribe DAWG? CREDD? Random server-side issues with NCsoft/Carbine cause your account to lapse. Just trying to be realistic here. The terms very clearly have a painful grey area that will grant a negative reaction. Anyone that has been here since launch is not going to successfully be included in "anyone that has been here since launch".
 
ITT a ton of people unable to see the point of the issue. Who cares about the mount? (Okay, some people do just kind of care about the mount).
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You are missing the point Shoogli
 
no guild/circle making/inviting because of gold sellers spamming you with invite
Arena teams can be made without a sub and they can also spam you with those annoying invites
 
So.... what do they accomplish?
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I think the real point of the issue is... who cares if Carbine or anybody else view you as "loyal"?  I mean, the world isn't going to end... it's not like the powers-that-be at Carbine are coming out and officially saying, "you're not loyal enough, you're steerage".  I'm a 32 year gamer... I think the only company that I might have been a bit saddened by to not see me as loyal might have been the original Sierra On-Line... for every other company though... what's it matter whether or not they see me as loyal... it's business.  I give them money, they give me what I pay for... it'd be like going into Walmart or Target and expecting some sort of emotional-loyalty.  I'm not going to shed a tear over the headphones or whatever that I buy at Target, simply because after I pay the $9.99 for them the cashier doesn't give me a hug for my loyalty.  B)
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Wow, invite spam from gold-sellers is STILL going on!?   :o  I played for the first three months, and they were an issue even back then... would have thought that'd have been nipped in the bud by now.  :blink:
Upside is, you can activate the ability to make guilds and circles and such through loyalty points, I believe, if I recall what I read correctly.  B)
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Not getting the Ikthian mount for missing the subscription by few hours? Really? I Would like to hear answer why?
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I just want to say... anyone who says "It's dumb if someone who had a lapse of less than a day doesn't qualify for 'continuous subs' and won't get the rewards" doesn't necessarily mean they're upset about it or crying about it or going to quit over it. But we should be able to say "That's kind of dumb" without being called names or imply that we have our priorities out of place.
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Wow, invite spam from gold-sellers is STILL going on!?   :o  I played for the first three months, and they were an issue even back then... would have thought that'd have been nipped in the bud by now.  :blink:
 
Upside is, you can activate the ability to make guilds and circles and such through loyalty points, I believe, if I recall what I read correctly.  B)
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Because...
 
HARDCORETM.
It's not just a word, it's a way of life.
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You are missing the point Shoogli
 
no guild/circle making/inviting because of gold sellers spamming you with invite
Arena teams can be made without a sub and they can also spam you with those annoying invites
 
So.... what do they accomplish?
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I'm not missing anything.
 
Guild, circle creations are *not* behind a sub wall : it's in the FAQ. For starter...
 
As for arenas, gold spammers don't take the time to lvl a character to 50 to have it erased minutes after the spam, this is why it's different.
What they used to do, and that no longer works, because of the authenticator, is hack a lvl 50 already existing account to spam with arena invites. That's the past.
 
The reason why pure F2P players can't create and invite to circles/guilds is indeed to avoid a spam which is easily created by low lvl toons. Again, Arenas can't be created that fast since only lvl 50.
 
And again and again there *will* be free players not subbing that will be able to create/invite into guilds and circles, just is the amount of time it takes is prohibitive in regards to having it erased if spamming.
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{| class="blockquote"
sorry more thoughts swimming around in my head.
 
signature cost.  what is it.  is it 15 a month like sub is now? less? more? the fact you guys didnt put down a price tells me it might be more, wich is bad.  if you cant make it cheaper at least make it the same.
 
i also advocate for signature players to be able to purchase instore items with gold gotten from the game.  why?  cuz im supporting you monthly at that point.  
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{| class="blockquote"
sorry more thoughts swimming around in my head.
 
signature cost.  what is it.  is it 15 a month like sub is now? less? more? the fact you guys didnt put down a price tells me it might be more, wich is bad.  if you cant make it cheaper at least make it the same.
 
i also advocate for signature players to be able to purchase instore items with gold gotten from the game.  why?  cuz im supporting you monthly at that point.  
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{| class="blockquote"
Pretty sure the F2P email announcement indicated same price.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm not sure how you got that from this FAQ item:
 
Circles
Free: Can join one (1) Circle, Cannot invite into or create Circles
Signature: Can join five (5) Circles,Can invite into and create Circles
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{| class="blockquote"
Most likely signature is going to be 15 a month, and allowing sub players to buy anything in the instore with gold would be terrible idea, it would *cupcake* off all the free players. But I do think sub players should get an allowance or a gift from the store. 
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			My account page says my sub was activated june 4th, I was part of the headstart and had 1 month of free game time,no matter what time i subscribed to the game between june 3rd or july 2nd I have always had an active account, I better be receiving that F2P mount because like everyone else I have been here since the beginning.	
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			Ugh, I'm still waiting for boxes to go on clearance in my city. I wouldn't mind getting one of those mounts.	
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My two cents...
 
Carbine, if you are going to put something behind a cash transaction just let me buy it. None of the random chance BS.
 
I'm not really the gambling type and even less of one for digital dragon goodness.	
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On encouragement, I want to reiterate some feelings I have towards certain aspects of Signature status - particularly the guild invite privileges.
 
I really feel like this would be more appropriate for a Loyalty reward instead of a Signature temporary perk. I maintain a small vanity guild that functions as extra bank space and a place to stick alts in when I want to "get away" from the hubbub of my main guild. I am concerned that come transition, if neither myself, my husband, or the personal friend of ours who is in the guild with us choose to subscribe to Signature status, that effectively locks out the ability to bring in any new alts we may roll. I'm certain we won't be the only group of people who will have this problem. No guild will be able to effectively manage their members without one subscriber, and that doesn't feel right to me. Guild invite ability being tied to whether or not you're subscribed feels like the ability to properly control your guild is being held hostage.
 
I understand the reasoning behind this - to try and limit what goldsellers can do. However, I feel that locking guild invite privileges behind a Loyalty reward would do the same thing while not punishing legitimate players.	
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{| class="blockquote"
On encouragement, I want to reiterate some feelings I have towards certain aspects of Signature status - particularly the guild invite privileges.
 
I really feel like this would be more appropriate for a Loyalty reward instead of a Signature temporary perk. I maintain a small vanity guild that functions as extra bank space and a place to stick alts in when I want to "get away" from the hubbub of my main guild. I am concerned that come transition, if neither myself, my husband, or the personal friend of ours who is in the guild with us choose to subscribe to Signature status, that effectively locks out the ability to bring in any new alts we may roll. I'm certain we won't be the only group of people who will have this problem. No guild will be able to effectively manage their members without one subscriber, and that doesn't feel right to me. Guild invite ability being tied to whether or not you're subscribed feels like the ability to properly control your guild is being held hostage.
 
I understand the reasoning behind this - to try and limit what goldsellers can do. However, I feel that locking guild invite privileges behind a Loyalty reward would do the same thing while not punishing legitimate players.
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			another thought.  random chances are bad, black lion chests in guild wars 2 are insulting,  	
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{| class="blockquote"
Unless I misread what you're saying, it's both.  It'll be available both to signature-service, and also be unlockable with loyalty-points.
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They probably want to limit the amount of game crashing mount bugs like the snarlefynx mount by only rewarding the mount to a select few....
 
But really tho, if that's how they want to show player appreciation, I'll just show my own version of Carbine appreciation by nitpicking their Dev responses and new features to the minute detail like they are for our subscription lapses.
 
Or maybe I'll just do it in my future pvp videos and other content by constantly reminding Carbine and new players not to invest money into Carbine, because they dont care about their loyal players.
 
I'll definitely be rethinking how much money I was planning to spend on the cash shop. Apparently 30$ a month for 10 months isn't good enough for a mount, so I doubt I'll be shelling out anywhere near that knowing Carbine doesn't appreciate me.
 
...and here I was excited that I could finally spend more money on them and give a struggling company some support.	
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{| class="blockquote"
If you here him mumbling about HARDORE reach over and slap him for me :D
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{| class="blockquote"
That's honestly not what I'm saying at all... nor did I ever call anybody any names whatsoever, nor even said priorities are out of place, (even though, that might be a bit of a given) even though I might imply it.  I've seen at least THREE posts in this thread so far of people threatening to cancel their subs over this (yet, they claim that they truly care about the game and its well-being... erm, okay...  :blink: ).  Over a mount and a pet.  I mean really?  Their entire gameplay up to this point, and future gameplay... hinder on what?  Whether or not they get the special-snowflake badge of loyalty and/or an extra mount or pet?
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{| class="blockquote"
Unless I misread what you're saying, it's both.  It'll be available both to signature-service, and also be unlockable with loyalty-points.
 
 
http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/2015-05-28-wildstar-is-going-free-to-play-heres-all-you-need-to-know/
 
(Scroll down to the section that says: Are there any perks a Free player can get without becoming Signature?)
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I just confused myself...
 
My sub history says I purchased 6 months on Sep 2... then 6 more months on Jan 20...
 
Why would I pay for 6 more months if my first 6 months weren't expired yet...   What the deuce did I do there?	
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{| class="blockquote"
Ironically in a general sense, I'd agree with all of that... the idea of "loyalty" is more like those who are assimilated and pretended like everything was always sunshine and daisies.
 
However, on the other hand... since I'm pretty certain your post was meant to be ire all based around the title and the mount... I find myself actually disagreeing that such a boycott and protest is made over a handful of pixels in an MMORPG that's going f2p.  I can't say for certain, but most those items will probably be available in the cash-shop at some point in the future.  An example would be Fallen Earth... when Fallen Earth was going f2p, the "loyal" players got a unique spiked custom-chopper... I was a tad heartbroken that I didn't qualify... not because of it being a unique/exclusive mount, but because in real-life I love motorcycles and custom-choppers.  I was peeved for awhile that I couldn't get a custom-chopper... until low and behold some time later down the road, that same exact custom-chopper became available in the cash-shop, at which point I bought one fairly cheap.  Since then there's been numerous other custom-choppers as well.
 
So my nickel's worth of free advice would be... don't be so quick to cry over the spilled milk, when there's a good chance, there might be a lot more milk in the refrigerator that's still drinkable.   B)
 
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't think the f2p transition will or should mean anything about the hardcore approach, especially raids. It's WildStar's unique selling proposition so it shouldn't be changed.
 
 
See above :) Raids in WildStar should never be available as "easy" - that would be courting the wrong audience.
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{| class="blockquote"
You are free to think what you want about people who are angry or upset because potentially a <1 day lapse in sub (or in some cases, less than 1 hour lapse) means they might not get a loyalty reward they want. But you aren't actually contributing to the discussion by coming here and saying what you are about them. Let them vent. I am a little concerned because I might miss out, but in the long run, it's not really a huge deal. But people are free to say they're unhappy with the way that Carbine has decided to award it. Feel free to AGREE with Carbine, saying that their choice is legit and should remain, no matter how long a lapse was. But try to do so without implying that those that are upset by it are crazy or stupid.
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{| class="blockquote"
You missed the point completely, as many others. Refer to the quote below, please.
 
 
Not only Carbine managed to get a fairly large portion of their current and past playerbase angry
 
This is what made me cancel my subscription. 
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{| class="blockquote"
In that case I'm curious how a Free player would actually accrue loyalty points...
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{| class="blockquote"
That's honestly not what I'm saying at all... nor did I ever call anybody any names whatsoever, nor even said priorities are out of place, (even though, that might be a bit of a given) even though I might imply it.  I've seen at least THREE posts in this thread so far of people threatening to cancel their subs over this (yet, they claim that they truly care about the game and its well-being... erm, okay...  :blink: ).  Over a mount and a pet.  I mean really?  Their entire gameplay up to this point, and future gameplay... hinder on what?  Whether or not they get the special-snowflake badge of loyalty and/or an extra mount or pet?
 
I mean honestly... if it's not about being viewed as a special-snowflake of "loyal" AND it's not about the mount and title... what then is it about?  Sure it might be yet another of many bad PR decisions on Carbine's part, or at least the way they phrased it... but they're the ones that MAKE the game... it's THEIR choice how they execute the decision... good or bad.
 
Seriously... this is the FIRST f2p transition of ANY game I've ever seen, where the biggest emphasis/priority is "what do I get out of it!?" (I mean seriously, there's no way it DOESN'T qualify as entitlement)... it's like a child in a divorce being opportunistic to have each parent buy their loyalty... "prove that you love me!", etc.  Would think and hope the REAL concern of the f2p transition is how might the game change, will things be made easier or harder, will unmentioned limits or restrictions here and there alter, will any of my progress or items disappear, will I lose this or that, etc.
 
My point still stands though... are you SERIOUSLY going to lose sleep over whether or not some game-company doesn't view you by a technical definition of loyal?  And/or are you going to SERIOUSLY lose sleep over whether or not you get an extra mount/title, which are a tiny collection of bits and pixels?
 
Heck, I'll be the first to admit, I'm not loyal to Carbine, whatsoever, nor have I experienced much reason to be as such; I mean honeslty, I gave them a good amount of my hard-earned money, and they've done me wrong on numerous occasions, that I still hold a beef and grind an ax about... but I'm still here... and for some insane crazy reason still would like to see this game change for the better.  The POTENTIAL is there... the POSSIBILITY is there.  There's so few true sci-fi MMORPGs out there, especially any with any kind of slapstick humor to them... this game still mildly reminds me of the old Space Quest games just a tad... my concern is what's going to happen with the game, and will it improve.  When I first heard of f2p, the only thing I thought was, "oh, well, now I can get in without sub or CREDD... limitless gameplay at my leisure, schedule, and availability, that's cool enough for me"... I could care less what loyalty-points or mounts or titles or anything else I'm getting out of it... there's plenty enough more in the game to already work with.
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{| class="blockquote"
So for some of us it's the principle of the thing.
 
And you're right it is business, but their business includes a community they supposedly care about. Their actions make some of us feel differently, and so we are voicing it.
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{| class="blockquote"
You also mention it's the "principal"... but that's the thing... as I've said numerous times, WHO CARES... it's BUSINESS.  Ever hear that saying, business never personal?  Now if they were outright ripping off players, or being underhanded, then sure, I'd be ticked... I'm all for legitimate principal in business practices as well as the game-industry.  But these aren't things you're directly BUYING, these are like the free keychain you MIGHT get when you purchase a car.  Your subscription is the car, and you MIGHT qualify to be seen as loyal and/or get an extra title and a mount... throwing a giant tantrum and claiming the most madbro anger over some extra pixels is quite frankly silly in any regard.
 
I mean seriously, do you go to radio-stations that only say the 10th caller is going to get a prize, and demand that you deserve that same prize even though you're not the 10th caller?  :blink:
 
So in all honesty, it's YOU that missed MY point... COMPLETELY. :P
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Grammar police:  "Principle" not "Principal".
 
The administrator of a school is not a moral/ethical point.	
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{| class="blockquote"
The other quote mentions it's the "principal"... but that's the thing... as I've said numerous times, WHO CARES... it's BUSINESS. Ever hear that saying, business never personal? Now if they were outright ripping off players, or being underhanded, then sure, I'd be ticked... I'm all for legitimate principal in business practices as well as the game-industry. But these aren't things you're directly BUYING, these are like the free keychain you MIGHT get when you purchase a car. Your subscription is the car, and you MIGHT qualify to be seen as loyal and/or get an extra title and a mount (aka: the keychain)... throwing a giant tantrum and claiming the most madbro anger over some extra pixels is quite frankly silly in any regard... especially if one cancels their entire sub and progress over a couple tiny things that in the big-picture don't matter for squat.
 
I mean seriously, do you go to radio-stations that only say the 10th caller is going to get a prize, and demand that you deserve that same prize even though you're not the 10th caller? :blink:
 
So in all honesty, it's YOU that missed MY point... COMPLETELY. :P
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{| class="blockquote"
It seems there are quite a few people who feel this way. Carbine are alienating all those players who have *nearly* been subbed for the whole time since launch. You'd think that those are the players Carbine would want to keep happy.
 
But, nooooooooooooooo, not the Carbine PR machine!
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			Ahh, the ole Carbine shuffle. One step forwards, two steps back.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is what made me cancel my subscription. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It is a business and it is a product and he has every right to stop buying said product if he feels slighted, unsatisfied, what have you. And nobody needs to validate him. It's his money.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm not missing anything.
 
Guild, circle creations are *not* behind a sub wall : it's in the FAQ. For starter...
 
As for arenas, gold spammers don't take the time to lvl a character to 50 to have it erased minutes after the spam, this is why it's different.
What they used to do, and that no longer works, because of the authenticator, is hack a lvl 50 already existing account to spam with arena invites. That's the past.
 
The reason why pure F2P players can't create and invite to circles/guilds is indeed to avoid a spam which is easily created by low lvl toons. Again, Arenas can't be created that fast since only lvl 50.
 
And again and again there *will* be free players not subbing that will be able to create/invite into guilds and circles, just is the amount of time it takes is prohibitive in regards to having it erased if spamming.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Considering Wildstar is circling the bottom of the toilet-bowl as far as financials go... I'm pretty certain that might be the least of their concerns... and that's the truth.  It'd be like going to somebody that's being evicted from their house and expecting THEM to make YOU happy.  Yeah, they want to keep their customers happy... but again, it boils down to two things... mount/title or seen as loyal... regardless of principal... the actual principal is JUST one of those two things.  You can't claim there's something unseen and expect the world to feel sympathy for it... it's like when you're a kid and claim the floor is lava and nobody can step on it... just because you claim there's something there, it doesn't make it so.
 
So many are making their OPINION into a rock-solid "principle"... and last I checked, principle is something founded in fact, that applies across the board... since this isn't adversely effecting everybody equally, it's obviously not a rock-solid factual thing.
 
Look up the definition of "entitlement", and tell me if that doesn't fit quite a bit more snug than "principle".
 
I mean, there's two HUGE ironies... when people complained about the grind and the over "hardcore" making it not so much fun to play, they were called entitled and wanting everything handed to them... and now people are screaming and yelling about having those few extra goodies handed to them... over "principle"?  LOL
 
Other irony is, when I first started in Wildstar, so many said, "oh, it's NCsoft, the same people that axed City of Heroes without warning"... now that Wildstar is going f2p, there's been ZERO mention of such concern, but the primary concern is what everybody can get out of it!?  *facepalm*
 
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{| class="blockquote"
I mean, there's two HUGE ironies... when people complained about the grind and the over "hardcore" making it not so much fun to play, they were called entitled and wanting everything handed to them... and now people are screaming and yelling about having those few extra goodies handed to them... over "principle"?  LOL
 
Other irony is, when I first started in Wildstar, so many said, "oh, it's NCsoft, the same people that axed City of Heroes without warning"... now that Wildstar is going f2p, there's been ZERO mention of such concern, but the primary concern is what everybody can get out of it!?  *facepalm*
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{| class="blockquote"
If it makes you feel any better, I'm finding it amazing that people are still whining about this mount so much that the main topic here isn't the complete absence of any mention whatsoever of an interaction between signature status and the cash shop.
 
No monthly stipend, no discount, no nothing. Just the statement that the "OMNIbits" currency will drop in game (location and rate left undescribed) and can be used to buy cash shop items instead of?/in addition to?/in exchange for? the NCoins that can be purchased with cash.
 
Sounds like the coming model for the cash shop and the subscription benefits is to view them as two entirely separate game elements. Good luck with that one, Carbine.  :D
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{| class="blockquote"
It wouldn't be an issue if there was a 24 hour leeway.  There are any number of people that wanted to stay subbed but for whatever reason beyond their control (an expired credit card that had to be replaced in the account info, technical issues on carbine's end, credd expired while they were asleep).  
 
I know I'm not getting the mount because I was out of the country launch week so I'm not complaining, but for the people I just described, it's just the dumbest possible thing Carbine could do.  It's literally incompetent on their part, it's terrible PR and loyalty on their part, and it's completely trivial to fix.
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{| class="blockquote"
Other irony is, when I first started in Wildstar, so many said, "oh, it's NCsoft, the same people that axed City of Heroes without warning"... now that Wildstar is going f2p, there's been ZERO mention of such concern, but the primary concern is what everybody can get out of it!?  *facepalm*
 
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{| class="blockquote"
It is a business and it is a product and he has every right to stop buying said product if he feels slighted, unsatisfied, what have you. And nobody needs to validate him. It's his money.
 
I said it before, I will say it again. It's in the business' interest to make customers want the product not the customer's job to find reasons to be happy and want the product.
 
We are at f2p. You should know by now carbine's approach has not paid off for them.
*points to daily threads that used to be 10-20 pages long barely hitting 3 pages on good days*
 
It is CARBINE's job to satisfy or fail to. It is not on the customer to comfort himself when things out of his control has resulted in getting slighted.
 
Other f2p transitions have not had these kinds of rewards, very likely because those companies were smarter. A customer is well within his rights to look at CARBINE's history and despair.
 
I told carbine to give us a chop shop. To leave the wardrobe alone and not bind it to an npc. I told carbine we need something more hardcore than dailies for when you have an hour to waste before your friends are online. I told carbine not to diss positive content and be so stringent with general discussion or it will become the forum equivalent of trash. I am amazed that many things people think are great improvements to the game are the same suggestions that I had to have forum wars about to even be heard because of the "hardcore" crowd. Many of us told carbine not to leave the qol Fluff to later... And they didn't and it was too late to recover. So... F2P is here.
 
Can you blame that user for looking back on all this history of carbine being too stubborn and giving up when he sees another example of stubbornness and inability to understand the market?!
 
I don't blame him.
 
I forgive but I most certainly have not forgotten CARBINE's attitude.
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{| class="blockquote"
There's been plenty of that, just not in this thread.
 
To be perfectly blunt, I fully expect that F2P will merely prolong the inevitable.
 
It's hard for me to believe the the only thing holding Wildstar back from mediocre success was a payment model. A factor in it's hardships? Sure, maybe. But the deciding factor? I just don't see it.
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{| class="blockquote"
Oh, I'm pretty certain the major thing that held them back from their success was the niche they went with... which they have every right to do; but when those that liked the game, and wanted to partake, simply suggested something not so grindy as an alternative, and the hardcore-crowd ran them out of dodge, then continue to scream for it to be more hardcore and more difficult... well... yeah, probably is just a matter of inevitability.  :D
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{| class="blockquote"
Oh, I'm pretty certain the major thing that held them back from their success was the niche they went with... which they have every right to do; but when those that liked the game, and wanted to partake, simply suggested something not so grindy as an alternative, and the hardcore-crowd ran them out of dodge, then continue to scream for it to be more hardcore and more difficult... well... yeah, probably is just a matter of inevitability.  :D
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{| class="blockquote"
And no because you knew the rules before you called. These are being placed after the fact without any warning.
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{| class="blockquote"
Okay then, compare it to say, Trick or Treating... you don't know what's being given before you get to the door.  Would you throw a tantrum and scream and yell at the person at the door because either they're not giving enough candy, or the candy isn't big enough?
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{| class="blockquote"
I honestly wouldn't call this game grindy for anything but rep.
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