118754-hardcore

== Content ==
			
"Wildstar looked fun- the trailers were funny, the art style was great, and the combat was fluid- but it was just too hardcore."
 
 
I swear if I had a dollar for every time I've heard similar statements being made around the internet gameoshphere (not a word, I know, but bear with me xD) I'd be a rich man indeed!
 
Recently, I've been doing a lot of internet roaming looking for things related to Wildstar and I've found these statements quite frequently. Now, I've heard the whole "hardcore" thing being thrown around but I thought it was mostly just some joke or internet meme that I was unaware of. It turns out that there are actually a decent number of folks who actually believe the notion that Wildstar is only for hardcore players.
 
I suppose it baffles me because I never got that impression from the game, being a casual guy myself. Heck, I recall clearly even before launch that Carbine's goal has always been to allow players to choose how they would like to play (casual to hardcore, solo to large group, you name it). Certainly, there's plenty of content for hardcore folks but there are also lots of things for casual folks (like myself) that Carbine has in the works.
 
 
I apologize if I'm late to the party on this issue but where on Earth did this stigma come from? Did I miss something? o.O	
----
			the game is not too hardcore, the game is too hard for people. Unlike other MMOs even leveling here requires concentration and being fast on your toes. I love it, but some people really dislike it.	
----
			Something I noticed when I looked around was people complaining about WS and their reason was they like their MMOs to be easy so they can push buttons while watching a movie, they like the tab targeting no movement setups because they don't have to even look at the screen.Now there's something to make you lose faith in the MMO community.	
----
			
For my Wildstar is a huge SIMgame. All I do is RP and play in my house and do dailies so I can spend points on housing rep vendor decor. I don't raid. I'm not even attuned.
 
I owPvP and farm Prestige in BGs for Black Hoods costumes.
 
I love this game.
 
PS: Henzilla when I first started I left a metric ton of Rocio corpses all over Nexus. There was a definite learning curv	
----
			
I'm as baffled as you, but then again I'm getting used to bashing of mmos with very little effort on the critique's part, by the mmo community. 
 
For example:
 
I had a friend who played the 1st month and then quit. When I asked him why he didn't stick around he simply stated, "the PvP is too slow for me." I asked, "How so?" He replies with, "You know it just feels really slow." .......
 
Back to the hardcore trend. I really have no clue who started saying Wildstar was hardcore, but it definitely caught on. Maybe because people are used to tab targeting and not really moving about it felt too strange to them and they couldn't or weren't willing to put in time and effort to learn a new combat style? Who knows. As someone who is new to mmos and started off as a filthy casual in Wildstar I didn't find it hardcore at all. Then again I've been told to be a very resourceful and quick on my feet individual, so I can't say my experience speaks for the majority. 	
----
			It was a running joke in one dev diary that became a meme and people didn't get the joke.	
----
			It become more than a meme though. Carbine was using the slogan "hardcore" during Beta and after launch. If you watch old trailers you can hear Frost repeating this "slogan". If I had a dollar every time I heard Frost saying "hardcore"....	
----
			it was more than a "meme" or a  rumour, look at towellie or alan and vic streams, some of the biggest pushers of the game early on, the whole time they were spouting how hardcore it was	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It become more than a meme though. Carbine was using the slogan "hardcore" during Beta and after launch. If you watch old trailers you can hear Frost repeating this "slogan". If I had a dollar every time I heard Frost saying "hardcore"....
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It was the raid trailer.  That's it.  It was a running joke, because it was funny.
----
			Vanilla WoW wasn't "hardcore".  It was more like classic MMO where you actually work to earn stuff, which is what that meant.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Vanilla WoW wasn't "hardcore".  It was more like classic MMO where you actually work to earn stuff, which is what that meant.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
the game is not too hardcore, the game is too hard for people. Unlike other MMOs even leveling here requires concentration and being fast on your toes. I love it, but some people really dislike it.
----
			
AFK'd the other night in a vet adventure to look at a text on my phone... Looked up and I was snared and in a red telegraph... dead.  And it was great.... I really like the fact that if I am not on my toes and playing that its not going to go well for me.  Especially in group content.
 
People really dislike the notion that they cannot just zone out and zombie through content it seems.
 
The game isn't hard persay... but it requires you to actually play not afk with one hand hitting muscle memory keybinds while you watch a youtube video.	
----
			
Thanks for the responses everyone. :)
 
So, am I to understand that the "hardcore" label situation is the result of a slogan Carbine was using to describe the difficulty level of the game? Is that what this type of criticism is referring to?
 
I haven't watched many of the old vods so I didn't see this happen.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Thanks for the responses everyone. :)
 
So, am I to understand that the "hardcore" label situation is the result of a slogan Carbine was using to describe the difficulty level of the game? Is that what this type of criticism is referring to?
 
I haven't watched many of the old vods so I didn't see this happen.
----
			If this game is hardcore then the Demon/Dark Souls games can only be completed by Chuck Norris.	
----
			
It does crack me up the way people gush about this game's gameplay... as if they'd never seen console games in their entire lives or something.
 
Seriously, we're only about one and a half steps removed from playing any of the God of War games here. Action gameplay with aiming in only two dimensions is ordinary in many gaming circles. And I'm pretty sure I've been double jumping since even before Crash Bandicoot came out.
 
Its just kinda different to MMO players ;).	
----
			It has taken me months to get the hang of this combat. Im not sure how many hours but here is a sample.. Leveled warrior to 20, engineer to 19 (r.I.p. Gearastar), Slinger to 10, dps medic to 19, and previous stalker Settler to 16. At launch. I ended up rerolling each time hoping a new class would help. It was cray cray. I thought I was going to throw my monitor across the room countless times. I struggled so bad I just died and died and died and died some more. I am not new to gaming at all. I have played all of the Elder Scrolls games including the entire game of Skyrim (like every single mission ever on alts also) I played Fallout 3 and New Vegas in their entirety. I played Bioshock 1, 2 , and Infinite half a dozen times each. I have four endgame fully geared characters on SWTOR one of which I have completed several Hardmode raids on (with a lot of help from my friends but still!) I played Fallen Earth and did dungeons with pistols as well as some PvP. I really dont think of myself as totally incompetent when it comes to video gaming. This game has taken me forever. The only way I was able to play is on a stalker with the soldier ability for HP buff and a ton of grit on the outfits. Im not saying everyone has struggled as much as I have and to b fair I did buy a new mouse. (Edit: since launch and trying all the other classes) Just saying compared to playing other games I found it extremely challenging at first. Now I love it. But yeah it was a very difficult learning curve for me so I can see why some people labeled it hardcore. Funny thing is it really hasn't been that hard for me to play anymore. Lots of repetition and now it just clicks for me and I love it. Oh one thing is I can't dash at all. I dont know if my dashfree system will affect my abilityto raid or not. I sort of dash but mostly just jump and move. Sometimes I do a quick dash but the dashes were so frustrating for me I just do a weird little jump dance now instead lol	
----
			I am hardcore. A hardcore cupcake! You can take my Health Points away again and again but you will never stop this cupcake from coming back. Here is to the hardcore cupcakes! /flex	
----
			
I never had the impression it was hardcore. But I didn't really spend a lot of time looking at anything but the trailers. The only thing I thought was that the raids were hardcore.
 
I *did* understand pretty early on that the dungeons were a lot more challenging than normal, and this really excited me. But the leveling and other parts of the game never felt "hardcore" to me.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It does crack me up the way people gush about this game's gameplay... as if they'd never seen console games in their entire lives or something.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm as baffled as you, but then again I'm getting used to bashing of mmos with very little effort on the critique's part, by the mmo community. 
 
For example:
 
I had a friend who played the 1st month and then quit. When I asked him why he didn't stick around he simply stated, "the PvP is too slow for me." I asked, "How so?" He replies with, "You know it just feels really slow." .......
 
Back to the hardcore trend. I really have no clue who started saying Wildstar was hardcore, but it definitely caught on. Maybe because people are used to tab targeting and not really moving about it felt too strange to them and they couldn't or weren't willing to put in time and effort to learn a new combat style? Who knows. As someone who is new to mmos and started off as a filthy casual in Wildstar I didn't find it hardcore at all. Then again I've been told to be a very resourceful and quick on my feet individual, so I can't say my experience speaks for the majority. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If this game is hardcore then the Demon/Dark Souls games can only be completed by Chuck Norris.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It has taken me months to get the hang of this combat. Im not sure how many hours but here is a sample.. Leveled warrior to 20, engineer to 19 (r.I.p. Gearastar), Slinger to 10, dps medic to 19, and previous stalker Settler to 16. At launch. I ended up rerolling each time hoping a new class would help. It was cray cray. I thought I was going to throw my monitor across the room countless times. I struggled so bad I just died and died and died and died some more. I am not new to gaming at all. I have played all of the Elder Scrolls games including the entire game of Skyrim (like every single mission ever on alts also) I played Fallout 3 and New Vegas in their entirety. I played Bioshock 1, 2 , and Infinite half a dozen times each. I have four endgame fully geared characters on SWTOR one of which I have completed several Hardmode raids on (with a lot of help from my friends but still!) I played Fallen Earth and did dungeons with pistols as well as some PvP. I really dont think of myself as totally incompetent when it comes to video gaming. This game has taken me forever. The only way I was able to play is on a stalker with the soldier ability for HP buff and a ton of grit on the outfits. Im not saying everyone has struggled as much as I have and to b fair I did buy a new mouse. (Edit: since launch and trying all the other classes) Just saying compared to playing other games I found it extremely challenging at first. Now I love it. But yeah it was a very difficult learning curve for me so I can see why some people labeled it hardcore. Funny thing is it really hasn't been that hard for me to play anymore. Lots of repetition and now it just clicks for me and I love it. Oh one thing is I can't dash at all. I dont know if my dashfree system will affect my abilityto raid or not. I sort of dash but mostly just jump and move. Sometimes I do a quick dash but the dashes were so frustrating for me I just do a weird little jump dance now instead lol
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The idea isn't just the combat system- it's the combat system combined with multiple players combined with RPG. This is really the only game (that I know of) that offers all of these things.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Thanks for the responses everyone. :)
 
So, am I to understand that the "hardcore" label situation is the result of a slogan Carbine was using to describe the difficulty level of the game? Is that what this type of criticism is referring to?
 
I haven't watched many of the old vods so I didn't see this happen.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Nobody started saying it - the Devs said it - watch every class video and promotional video prior to the MMO's release. All of them had the word Hardcore in there. Watch the Raids promotional video - you will then answer your own question :D 
----
			
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. "
 
~Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I always had the feeling that stricken look on Frost's face during the last regular episode of the Nexus report was the realization sinking in that in his enthusiasm for squealing 'hardcore' he had actually strangled his creation in the crib. I agree it was cute and funny in context, but more than anything else, it painted the game with a brush that obliterated its chance for broad commercial appeal. It became the polarizing rallying cry for both sides of the commitment spectrum that ran the game's numbers into the ground. Hardcore or not (and by my standards its not hardcore at all, just occasionally prone to roan-scat tedium to stretch content) the perception made it easy for people struggling with the game for any reasons whatsoever to write it off with little more than a shrug. "Its hardcore, and I'm not. Welp, I'm outa here."
----
			
Frost's enthusiasm from the game was infectious and I still find the videos hilarious. They were a large part of why I tried Wildstar. :)
 
#hardcore is still part of my vocab.	
----
			
Thank you for the continued discussion/clarification. :)
 
Again, this is the most common criticism that I see of Wildstar from the rest of the gaming community. This confused me because I never got the impression that you had to adopt a hardcore playstyle in order to enjoy the game.
 
I didn't realize that it was more than just a joke that other Wildstar players toss around at each other. :P	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Thank you for the continued discussion/clarification. :)
 
Again, this is the most common criticism that I see of Wildstar from the rest of the gaming community. This confused me because I never got the impression that you had to adopt a hardcore playstyle in order to enjoy the game.
 
I didn't realize that it was more than just a joke that other Wildstar players toss around at each other. :P
----
			
I'm not sure I fully grasp what people mean when they say the game is hardcore.
 
The learning curve isn't that steep that it makes it a game that only dedicated gamers can succeed at.
 
The basic principles and mechanics behind a trinity game and an MMO are duplicated in WildStar with an emphasis/focus on Telegraph based combat, Dashing, Double Jumping, Moments of Opportunity, and near constant movement. It's probably a poor choice in labels to say WildStar is hardcore because they expect a Tank, Healer and DPS to work together to beat group content. It's also not very hardcore to go through gear progression to get to end game content. Is it really hardcore to expect people to put runes on their gear? (No, it's not). The onus to understand how stats work in the game is on the player, but that's pretty much how games have always worked.
 
The game itself for raiding is more unforgiving than it is hardcore. You really do need 20 people who can work together and do mechanics to succeed at the game. There are many many fights where people failing mechanics can cause a wipe in GA. In every fight in DS if you goof up your positioning or don't understand a mechanic you will fail. But hey, learning a fight and experiencing progression is what raiding is all about. Especially when understanding the story isn't directly tied to completing raids.
 
If I were to hazard a guess as to why people label WildStar as hardcore, it was the buzz word from the Dev Speak videos quickly adopted by anyone writing about the game and that there really isn't any light content to do in the game once you've hit level 50. As Vic mentioned there is the housing aspect to spend time on, farming materials or finding decor pieces (#hardcorehousing). But other then that you've got a handful of dungeons to take a crack at before there just really isn't anything else to do but Raid. The raids themselves as mentioned above, demand thresholds of player accountability and participation on an order of magnitude higher than the other content offered. In a dungeon you can lose 20% of your group and finish a fight. In a Raid you really cannot. There are of course the over gearing exceptions, but really, lose 4 people in a raid on Kuralak or Phagemaw and you are in a lot of trouble.
 
If I were to give some serious feed back into making the game more popular for all interest levels it would be summed up in:
 
1. More dungeons
2. More Dynamic public content
3. Harder dungeon difficulty level for raid geared players.
 
In all of the above you could include more decor items or costume pieces relevant to the lore/location/event. Like how awesome it is to get the Head of Stormtalon etc... And also maybe give people more reasons to spend time in different zones in the world other than Sign of Fusion - Eldan  farming spots.
 
But back to the topic at hand, I don't really see what is hardcore about WildStar that isn't hardcore about any other MMO that rewards players for being active.	
----
			#hardcorehousing FTW	
----