120716-it-shouldnt-take-me-less-than-5-hours-to-max-my-elder-gems

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So I was sick this week, pretty damn badly too, I was able to play Omnicore and that was as much as I could really spend until Saturday night/sunday morning when I played a huge session of Prius Online.
So naturally not playing means I didn't have my Elder Gems capped out.
 
"oh crap... I totally forgot" Facepalm "way to go forgetting things fran"
Except...
Well we get 140 Elder Gems a week possible plus 10 more for Omnicore.
Looking at the logs here. It appears that I started about 4:26PM then took a nap around 6:20
Woke around 8:12
I sat down, logged in "lets get as many as we can before server reset"
by 22:45 I had cleared Crimson, Northern wastes, and maxed out my elder gems.
 
I started at 76 EG including my omnicore this week, that's 124 eldergems of 140 in just 4.5 hours
 
Ofc you might think "um congrats?" yeah it's nice that I was able cap out before losing out, but that's the thing.
I'd rather have out than have been able to max my elder gems so easily.
 
This should really take a lot longer than just 4 hours.
As far as I understand this is suppose to be an end game carrot, an insentive to log in and have a goal and motivation to finish for the sake of improving your characters. And being able to do it in less than a day, not even that, just 2 play sessions of 2.25 hours a piece?
 
This mentality of "give me everything now" is really just getting into everything, even WildStar.
It's a cool system, but at the same time, it's too easily completed.
 
I do realize that not everyone has the time of the day to actively play for a dedicated amount of time, but >5 hours?
That's rather low don't you think Carbine?	
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I think being able to cap EPs in one nights play is fine.  People who work and have other commitments don't want to log onto the game and have another "job" of capping EPs before doing anything else.  Yes if you play in a guild of regulars you can cap them using Dungeons/Adventures but if you don't have this then you don't want to have to run around doing the same quests every night hoping for a queue to pop on and Adventure or Dungeon only for it to completely fall flat and not cap your EPs for the week!
 
It doesn't give you everything now, it takes a night out of your 7 nights possible play, realistically about 3/4 nights play and is capped so you can't just get everything now, you have to wait weeks to get anything.	
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People cried about a lack of income.
 
Now they can cap EGs fast in the beginning of the week so people can make more money doing "fun" stuff in game and other people cry.
 
How I feel for carbine.	
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			I'm ok with the speed at which EGs are acquired.	
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			Gonna play devil's advocate for a moment, what is the benefit of it taking longer to cap EG?	
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Gonna play devil's advocate for a moment, what is the benefit of it taking longer to cap EG?
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Making alting even worse.
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{| class="blockquote"
Gonna play devil's advocate for a moment, what is the benefit of it taking longer to cap EG?
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Mechanics sake it's an incentive to log in and play, a motivator.
The longer someone is in game the more likely they will have the in-game presence to be around for other things.
It shouldn't take too long, but it shouldn't be less than 5 hours either.
If you keep people logged in on their own accord, then the amount of players that are regularly logged in goes up and thus a more consistent and larger online concurrent user population.
There are many mechanics that can do this, but straight forward ones are always the most obvious and usually the most motivating, and appeal to more users.
Leveling is what used to do this in older games(Since everyone levels in the first place), Elder Gems is a good replacement in concept, it essentially allows a player to continue playing as if the leveling process isn't over, but it's over too quickly at just 4.5 hours.
 
If the population of simultaneous online users is higher the population has more chances and reasons to interact with one another to get things done for one another, such as Scorchwing, Lightspire, Attunement, and other aspects of the game.
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Valid points, but experience is converted to gold once you cap EG. This makes farming gold, for various reasons, that much more beneficial. Without that gold boost some couldn't afford repair bills for raiding.
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			It'd be better if they made Adventures/Dungeons as PUGs the best source of EGs I think so people ran them more.  After all the game should encourage group content and what better way to do it?	
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[...]
 
Leveling is what used to do this in older games(Since everyone levels in the first place), Elder Gems is a good replacement in concept, it essentially allows a player to continue playing as if the leveling process isn't over, but it's over too quickly at just 4.5 hours.
 
[...]
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I earlier suggested a soft, rather than hard, EG cap.  Maybe until 100 EG, you have a 100% chance to generate an elder gem, then for the next 50, it's an 80% chance, then after that to 200 it's a 50% chance, then it stops at having a 20% chance every time your EXP bar fills to shoot you an EG.  Every time it doesn't shoot you an EG, it gives money.
 
Then you could feasibly grind as much EG as you want, but you can't grind uncontrollable elder gems.  Of course, these are arbitrary numbers; I'm not sure exactly the rate that would be required to keep elder gem acquisition "controllable" but a peak of 20% chance to generate an EG instead of money seems reasonable.  And then you aren't "rushing to cap", there just comes a point where you're really fighting for the gems.  But if that's really what you want to do, at least there'd be no hard cap on your playtime either.	
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Gold income is not a solid motivator. People value money even in game in very different ways.
It doesn't translate well from potential gameplay of questing and daily input.
 
As a raider myself, I have learned far better ways to make gold than just capping elder gems and doing dailies.
The psychology of it is based on the Skinnerbox method, tactics to keep players pressing the button for the same behaviors.
 
Skinnerbox methods are a basis of online gameplay, and MMORPGs socialize these sorts of mechanical influences.
Personal monitary gain in a game that barely uses gold, is an incredibly poor motivation.
 
I can make a 1~2 plat in an hour farming, where as I would be wasting my time doing any quests on a maxed Elder Gem Exp bar.
Gold would have to buy a lot more things in WildStar to make it a good motivator.
 
Gear bills aren't anywhere near severe enough to make it a concern.
 
I'm sitting on 35 plat right now, and even a full night of raiding doesn't even phase my income.
Gold is very poorly managed in this game, but it doesn't buy much either.(which is good thing in many ways and bad in others)
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The problem with your post is that you base your experience only with your play rate, your play time... Maybe Carbine did otherwise and planned it as an average of the population, because *they* have the data to back it up and are not centered only around the experience of FranBunnyFFXII...
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You say that, but say I get a new piece of gear during a raid. 
For [superb]
- 6 modules @20g each
- rune fragments @10g - 7p (depending on your role and class)
- elements @1 - 30g each
- 1-5 fluxes @2p each
- unlocking slots @~70g
 
For [Legendary] 
- 18 modules @20g each
- rune fragments @20 - 7p (depending on your role and class)
- elements @1 - 30g each
- 1-7 fluxes @2p each
- unlocking slots @~1.3p
 
I think you are severely underestimating the cost of gear upkeep.
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{| class="blockquote"
You say that, but say I get a new piece of gear during a raid.
For [superb]
- 6 modules @20g each
- rune fragments @10g - 7p (depending on your role and class)
- elements @1 - 30g each
- 1-5 fluxes @2p each
- unlocking slots @~70g
 
For [Legendary]
- 18 modules @20g each
- rune fragments @20 - 7p (depending on your role and class)
- elements @1 - 30g each
- 1-7 fluxes @2p each
- unlocking slots @~1.3p
 
I think you are severely underestimating the cost of gear upkeep.
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Is there maybe an argument for instituting a direct EG -> Gold transfer at a vendor?  That way, people who do get elder gems they don't want to use can directly turn them into the money equivalent?  That seems like it might be a good middle way.
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Vic, please. The last thing this game needs is more RNG.
 
In Drop 4 we get a new currency to grind and that'll solve the issue.	
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{| class="blockquote"
False assumption, and on your side, you're assuming that Alts matter.
 
[...]
 
 
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I earlier suggested a soft, rather than hard, EG cap. Maybe until 100 EG, you have a 100% chance to generate an elder gem, then for the next 50, it's an 80% chance, then after that to 200 it's a 50% chance, then it stops at having a 20% chance every time your EXP bar fills to shoot you an EG. Every time it doesn't shoot you an EG, it gives money.
 
Then you could feasibly grind as much EG as you want, but you can't grind uncontrollable elder gems. Of course, these are arbitrary numbers; I'm not sure exactly the rate that would be required to keep elder gem acquisition "controllable" but a peak of 20% chance to generate an EG instead of money seems reasonable. And then you aren't "rushing to cap", there just comes a point where you're really fighting for the gems. But if that's really what you want to do, at least there'd be no hard cap on your playtime either.
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[...]
I ask "what data" because the general complaint about most users is that Carbine is no longer listening and paying attention to players.
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As for the rest of your post I trust Carbine's analysis and data
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[...]
I ask "what data" because the general complaint about most users is that Carbine is no longer listening and paying attention to players.
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I don't think these 2 ideas are relative to one another.
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Perhaps, but if this if the case you derailed your own thread. 
 
And maybe Shoogli came across as insulting, but he/she is right in this case. You are using your own personal experience and preferences about gaming to try and invalidate the Elder Point system. Sure, it needs some more fine-tuning, as do many other aspect of WildStar, but I don't believe the problems lies in the ability and the quickness at which one can acquire Elder Gems. 
 
You said yourself that you has an extended amount of time to do this, which you even admitted was not the case with many players. Because this is true, we can assume that on any other given week it would take you longer than 4.5 hours to cap. 
 
Just because you don't play alts, doesn't mean everyone shouldn't, like you are insinuating with your tasteless remarks about people's choices when playing this game. This game is already one of the most alt-unfriendly games I've played. I'm not an "alt-oholic" as I'm sure people that want to experience the true extent of this game aren't either. My choice to play through another 1/6 of the game cannot, and will not, ever be dictated by the desires of one individual to farm for longer.
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Carbine, nor players are flawless.
Nonetheless This is offtopic.
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You say that, but say I get a new piece of gear during a raid. 
For [superb]
- 6 modules @20g each
- rune fragments @10g - 7p (depending on your role and class)
- elements @1 - 30g each
- 1-5 fluxes @2p each
- unlocking slots @~70g
 
For [Legendary] 
- 18 modules @20g each
- rune fragments @20 - 7p (depending on your role and class)
- elements @1 - 30g each
- 1-7 fluxes @2p each
- unlocking slots @~1.3p
 
I think you are severely underestimating the cost of gear upkeep.
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Made a big post wont post.
 
/pissed
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
Perhaps, but if this if the case you derailed your own thread.
 
And maybe Shoogli came across as insulting, but he/she is right in this case. You are using your own personal experience and preferences about gaming to try and invalidate the Elder Point system.
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All things considered, I'd still recommend an EG soft cap.  I think we're a bit bogged down in the mire when we can actually make a positive recommendation that would improve QOL across the board.  An EG soft cap with a guaranteed region where you get an elder gem 100% of the time while you raise your bar, which then reaches a point where it begins to fall, to finally bottom out at some lower percentage where you can continue to grind EG at a greatly reduced level.  You get gold every time you don't get an EG and they institute a transaction on the EG vendor that allows you to directly trade your EG for money if you really have no more use for EG.
 
I think that's a worthwhile improvement not because of the added incentive, but because it never technically removes an incentive if that's what the player wants.  If someone REALLY wants to grind EG all day, every day, that's a good way to make sure he can, even if he can't expect to be rolling in EG.  But, at the very least, he'd always have the possibility of getting one, so if he's running dungeons still at that EG-earning floor, he doesn't just stop playing because there is no more EG to be had anywhere.  And, if you tune it right, nobody can just buy out everything from the EG vendor all at once, the drop rate is still too low at the floor to get much.	
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It takes me 3 nights out of my week to cap elder gems if I do dailies, etc. That is 3 nights I'm not PvPing and doing what I like.
 
The only thing reassuring about this topic is that it's so outlandish it will never be implemented.	
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			I think I should get 140 gems each week just for subbing...	
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Why shouldn't alts matter?  :huh: They're played by paying customers aren't they?
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False assumption, and on your side, you're assuming that Alts matter.
Who said everyone plays Alts?
 
My question is "why would you even need to play an alt if your main character can be progressed and fulfilling the more time you put into her?"
No I'm not assuming just my own experience.
 
I don't consider my elaborate amounts of time, I'm considering the fact that most people work a job, they get home, they want something to do in their favorite MMO, WildStar, and I'm also not considering raiding, which is something that I do personally.
 
Considering a 40 hour work week with no overtime, ect.
and "average population" and data, because you know 40 player raids were accessible and desired by EVERYONE.
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[...]
 
Rather the assumption (from shoogli) that alts are a norm.
 
[...]
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I think I should get 140 gems each week just for subbing...
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I didn't say they didnt matter.
Rather the assumption (from shoogli) that alts are a norm.
Not everyone plays alts, and some people do.
 
But everyone(character) that gets max level gets introduced into the Elder Gems system.
 
edit:
Its obviously not helping with keeping people in the game consistently. The only thing I see that really is right now is Raiding. But then again I'm in a raiding guild, so I'm not sure what all others are up too.
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You said "you are assuming alts matter", which lead me to assume you think they don't.
 
I'm in the game consistently and it has nothing to do with raiding or EG.  BUT if I ever get the urge to specifically go out and cap my EG's for the week, instead of it being a pleasant side effect of what ever I am doing, I don't think it being a huge grind is going to encourage me to do that.  It will actually have the opposite effect, I'll just say *cupcake* it and move on to doing something else, or just logging out entirely.  We have enough grinds as it is.  Capping EG shouldn't be added to that "to get people playing the game".
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Yeah lets just remove all forms of Exp gain and start at level 50 then.
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You said "you are assuming alts matter", which lead me to assume you think they don't.
 
I'm in the game consistently and it has nothing to do with raiding or EG.  BUT if I ever get the urge to specifically go out and cap my EG's for the week, instead of it being a pleasant side effect of what ever I am doing, I don't think it being a huge grind is going to encourage me to do that.  It will actually have the opposite effect, I'll just say *cupcake* it and move on to doing something else, or just logging out entirely.  We have enough grinds as it is.  Capping EG shouldn't be added to that "to get people playing the game".
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Did I say that at all?  LMAO no I did not.  Stop twisting *cupcake*, stop putting words into a person's post/opinion that were not there at all, or even implied.  I have no idea how you even came to that conclusion, especially since I've never actually complained about the leveling in this game.  Me saying we don't need more grinds added to the game is not the same as me saying take away all the Exp gains and start at level 50.  It means exactly what I said: we have enough grinds as it is, we don't need more.
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 What makes you think 5 hours isn't a lot of time?.
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Besides, as more content shows up, the weekly cap might be raised. I'm certain OC-1 isn't the last piece of content that will raise the total of EG we can gain per week.
And *this* is one of the real solutions to generate even more activity in the game : add more incentives, NOT LESS  :rolleyes: !
 
Oh and speaking of game activity, you've heard of that new currency : glory ? 
 
Fran, You may want to check the PTR forum, the dev tracker, etc...	
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{| class="blockquote"
No one likes RNG, RNG is not fun to play against.
 
Just today/yesterday a few players in my guild explained how they'd be raiding for 6 months and have yet to see a drop they all wanted.
(Sorry If I misunderstood your post, it just sounded a bit like a suggestion to randomize what you got after the cap)
 
also Not everyone's He, you know.
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Apparently it's just an annoyance to most people.
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Very much so personally.  My first 50 has her key and 132 EG.  That's about all of the daily zone grind I could tolerate since me and my guildmates were getting really discouraged with end-game at that point.  My current main has 900+ after key because what I want to do seems quite a bit more attainable now than it did in June.
 
Forcing me to do things I don't want to really does not help.  Case in point: OC-1 is irritating enough that I blew it off again even though that's 10 extra EG.
 
I also have a full stable of alts.  I do like to at least sample all of the classes.  I learned the hard way in WoW that you have to because if an update completely screws over your only 90 and your other alts are only 20.... simply blew any motivation I had to continue on there.
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{| class="blockquote"
I think you missed the satire before.
 
Ohwell I can see that the community is against it so you're right.
Rather than insults however,
 
How do you propose we fix the issue of giving players an insentive to log in, stay logged in and keep constantly logged in community?
It is an issue with the game right now.
 
Just because you stay logged in, doesn't mean others do as well.
Just because you play Alts doesn't mean others want to as well.
Just because you find ways to make fluff work for doesn't mean other players want to play fluff either.
 
Meaningful progression is an insentive all players can agree upon, which is expressed manyways in game, and provides the best way to keep players logged in and chatting and being social and having fun in game.
 
If Elder gems are fine as they are then, what else can we do to give people something to do in game, that doesn't feel forced, thats meainingful and progressive that doesn't require people to take time out of raids or PVP, and allows players to focus in on what they do want to play?
 
Also some people do like to grind, But apparently their opinions and desires don't matter because everyone else disagrees with them. What about those people? How do you suggest we allow people whom like to grind and have a slow creeping reward work for them?
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{| class="blockquote"
Besides, as more content shows up, the weekly cap might be raised. I'm certain OC-1 isn't the last piece of content that will raise the total of EG we can gain per week.
And *this* is one of the real solutions to generate even more activity in the game : add more incentives, NOT LESS  :rolleyes: !
 
Oh and speaking of game activity, you've heard of that new currency : glory ? 
 
Fran, You may want to check the PTR forum, the dev tracker, etc...
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But why should EG's be added to that list?  People that like to grind will find goals to grind towards, they don't always need the game to cater to them in that respect.
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Why do you feel as though its forced?
 
I don't at all feel as though Elder Gems are forced but rather I feel more like they are a bonus.
But From your side why are they forced to you?
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[...] You are acting like making EG's a bigger grind would keep people logged/logging in [...]
 
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It's a directly EXP related reward, the primary insentive of a grind player.
"They don't always need the game to cater to them in that respect."
The game barely if at all catered to grind players.
 
But with this logic and reason every other player is more important then.
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When I started, they were the only way to get the rest of your AP and AMPs.  42 weeks of grinding.  They are not optional, you will need them.  If not now, then in upcoming content because they have to balance around their existence.
 
Maybe the Glory system will be superior, I don't know because I've seen very little how it's supposed to work.  My plan is to cash in my EG for AP and AMPs before the switchover unless I get some better detail that says acquiring AP and AMPs will be much less irritating.
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			IMNSHO, it shouldn't be "Make it longer to reach the cap of 140 to keep people grinding".  If you want people to keep grinding, raise the incentive to grind, not make the process longer.  Raise the EG cap, give us more to spend the EGs on, reduce prices of some things if necessary, that sort of thing.  	
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{| class="blockquote"
The issue with EG as grind content is that it caps, which is a major buzzkill to a grind player in the first place.
 
The 42 weeks idea was completely ridiculous on carbine's end, and it was smart of them to change their stance.
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Blighthaven. Crimson Badlands.  Northern Wastes. The Defile.  R12.  The other areas you grind whilst leveling.  The things you buy with the different currencies there are to grind(more to be added, currencies and things to buy).  Crafting and quests associated with it.  Gathering your own mats and/or money to buy the mats.  Grinding to sell stuff to people that don't want to gather/don't have the gathering professions.  That's all I can think of for now :P
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Did they change their stance or did they just naturally add more content and expand upon current content?
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Did they change their stance or did they just naturally add more content and expand upon current content?
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I come From grinding games, I came from the korean scene, and I have to say WildStar has a really poor appeal to grinders.
The only reasons I really play this game is because, well I *cupcake*ing love being an Aurin and the combat is really involving and interesting, End game PVE is fantastic and I love it, and its pay to play with CREDD. I wont have to pay my sub fee anymore after my 1 year sub runs out because I figured out how to grind gold and I can pay for credd and my gear upgrades endlessly without a care.
 
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Did they change their stance or did they just naturally add more content and expand upon current content?
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I hate to break it to you, but CRB is based out of California, which is not part of Korea. This is a Theme-Park MMO. It was advertised as such, and it has delivered. It was never, even loosely, based on a grindy Korean MMO interpretation.
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I still don't know what that game is and I don't intend to. This is WildStar, compare it only to WildStar past, present, and future. You're setting yourself up for failure if you keep comparing it like this. 
 
WildStar is CRB's interpretation of what an MMO should be. They have a lot, sometimes too many, original ideas and that is what makes it WildStar. If they copied any other game it would be [insert game here]-clone and not WildStar.	
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I still don't know what that game is and I don't intend to. This is WildStar, compare it only to WildStar past, present, and future. You're setting yourself up for failure if you keep comparing it like this. 
 
WildStar is CRB's interpretation of what an MMO should be. They have a lot, sometimes too many, original ideas and that is what makes it WildStar. If they copied any other game it would be [insert game here]-clone and not WildStar.
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Also without comparisons we won't always know what needs to be improved.
Players get complacent, they accept some things as norm and don't care to fix or improve them until they see something better come along.
 
I had a brush with this coming from Prius's questing and tracking system compared to WildStar's.
WildStar's I got used too, and just accepted it was fine as is.
 
It wasn't until I saw something that did it better that I thought WildStar needed some improvement and upgrades to its questing and tracking system.
Sometimes we need different experiences to improve the ones that we prefer over all.	
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You're assuming too much and not understanding what I'm getting at.
I'm using a reference that I talked about in this forum earlier.
 
You essentially stated theme park=/=grind
Which is incorrect.
 
Prius Online is an example of an MMO that did grind very well but is also exclusively theme park.
WoW also does level grinding really well. Infact even after I hit level 90 in WoW I just kept on questing because it was fun. I went grinding for moutns and reputation, because the game, even though it is theme park, is really good at suppporting grind gameplay.
 
 
But that's not he subject matter that I'm trying to persuade, I was simply throwing the aspect of improving the quality of life for many players.
As you said before The elder gems system can be tweaked, people feel its forced, not always worth it, and from a grind players perspective, it's too short.
 
And don't treat Carbine as infallible, They made mistakes and are having to fix them, and their updates are reflecting better and better support of what players actually would like or need in this game.
 
 
You're trying to isolate me out of this game, Stop it.
I'm part of this game, this community and part of this feedback process whether you like it or not.
I have every right to voice my opinions, concerns and interests in the game as much as anyone else.
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I'm not trying to assume anything, sorry if it seems that way. I can't be in your head and I don't have the same experience/goals as you do, that much is clear. 
 
I think we just need to be patient and see what grind elements they will be adding. With each patch they add more content, and more reasons to grind. Whether it's adding a new zone + reputation, adding more items to a lackluster vendor, or even creating a new currency CRB has plans. These plans just can't all be put forward at once. The reason could be suspense, or timing, or even some form of planned execution but that's irrelevant. 
 
You have responded to my thread showing exactly how fallible CRB can be, so don't think I am trying to White-Knight this thread on you. 
 
I'm not trying to undermine your feedback or your opinions. You have the right to voice them as much as I have the right to disagree with them. I never once said, "shut up you're stupid", so don't take it that way. I would just be cautious when trying to generalized players as X or Y. It's not always black and white.
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I'm trying to be somewhat civil here, but you did start off your OP with "So I...."
 
Had you started with something along the lines of, "My guildees and I have noticed that..." this would seem less self-centered, but everything up to now has been about your experiences and what you want to see implemented to make how you enjoy playing even more enjoyable. 	
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I rather like the speed at which I can cap EGs. I don't get a lot of time to play, so it's nice.
 
Now, I don't really have much to use said EGs for, but that's another issue entirely... *cough*putmoredecorontheEGvendorandtakethatstupiddatascapelimitoffthedecorthat'sthere*cough*	
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm trying to be somewhat civil here, but you did start off your OP with "So I...."
 
Had you started with something along the lines of, "My guildees and I have noticed that..." this would seem less self-centered, but everything up to now has been about your experiences and what you want to see implemented to make how you enjoy playing even more enjoyable.
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			So would nerfing Fran by reducing her elder xp gained 75% do the trick?	
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			It's not so easy to cap for more casual players, and that 5 hours might be spread out over their entire playtime for a week, not one night.	
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So would nerfing Fran by reducing her elder xp gained 75% do the trick?
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It's not so easy to cap for more casual players, and that 5 hours might be spread out over their entire playtime for a week, not one night.
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They don't. But, perhaps "just" EG capping is not designed to be hardcore.
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Like my PT NCO said all the time Garbage In Garbage Out. If put crap work into the game you should get crap out, if you put good work into the game you should get good work out of it.
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Who said casuals should get the same rewards as Daily, Hardcore and Dedicated players?
 
Like my PT NCO said all the time Garbage In Garbage Out. If put crap work into the game you should get crap out, if you put good work into the game you should get good work out of it.
 
Whatever, my co-lead is watching this thread and literally told me to just stop.
[8:48:41 AM] -snip-: I think you're wasting your time with people who simply don't accept other ppl's point of view
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It's not so easy to cap for more casual players, and that 5 hours might be spread out over their entire playtime for a week, not one night.
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Yeah someone literally did insult me...
The thing is I  considered everyone elses view point, I didn't consider my own in full, I even admitted I was wrong. And I even asked what others would view as a solution
But no one cared what I had say, and I was ignored in my questions and feedback.
All I got back was "your input is bad" assumptions, and literally insulted.So no I'm not a hypocrite.	
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			I was sleepy and needed a nap inbetween tho. Coulda done it faster.	
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			You're going slow if it's taking you around 5 hours. Shoot for 3 hours, then you'll know you're moving. :p	
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I rather like the speed at which I can cap EGs. I don't get a lot of time to play, so it's nice.
 
Now, I don't really have much to use said EGs for, but that's another issue entirely... *cough*putmoredecorontheEGvendorandtakethatstupiddatascapelimitoffthedecorthat'sthere*cough*
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			You made an unpopular suggestion and it sparked a lively debate full of people that don't agree with you.	
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People cried about a lack of income.
 
Now they can cap EGs fast in the beginning of the week so people can make more money doing "fun" stuff in game and other people cry.
 
How I feel for carbine.
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			The time it takes to get your gems has nothing to do with things being handed to you. The 150 gem cap is the gate. No need to gate my time too. Its nice to get it over with and be able to do whatever I want in the game rather grind gems. 	
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Need less time spent getting elder gems in this game please, I have alts.
 
also op is exaggerating	
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In a nut shell... don't make EG capping take longer.
 
I'm now patiently waiting for another thread on a controversial topic to start so we can argue about something else.   ;)	
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Need less time spent getting elder gems in this game please, I have alts.
 
also op is exaggerating
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I think Fran's trying to make her point through a sea of opposition--I don't share her perspective, but I think I can see what she's getting at. She doesn't like to be told "You may not make any more progress towards the goal you want to work towards this week whether you want to or not". I can't blame her for that.
 
I think Vic's suggestion about diminishing returns does a fine job of letting her still make progress without letting her simply become a human version of a bot to break the game's pacing and progression. The steepness of the soft cap still does put a practical limit on the number of EGs a person can collect in a week. As a result, it does still impose a practical limit on how far a person who farms all week can outrun someone who shows up once or twice a week to do a zone or two of dailies. And it does it without reducing the progress made by continuing the grind to a rate of zero per hour. It also nicely addresses the issue of how to handle the EG/plat transition.
 
Very nice idea, Vic.  :) Sorry to see it didn't get more support when it was put forward.
 
However, it does have one obvious problem and it's one that would be a serious mistake to brush off as meaningless. Diminishing returns do make the EG system's already substantial disincentive to make alts even worse. Many people do enjoy playing alts in every MMORPG that I'm familiar with, and it improves familiarity with the strengths and limitations of the other classes that any character teams with as well as increasing the ability to respond flexibly to imbalances in overall population class/faction. Those are good things for the health of the game and it would be a mistake to make them even harder to justify doing than they already are.
 
Of course, there's an obvious solution to this that frankly should have been put in place from the start. If the EP/EG scale tracks across all level-capped characters on a single account, then people who make alts aren't penalized for doing so relative to people who don't. That accommodates both people who like alts AND people who like grinding.
 
So I wouldn't be opposed to a change that includes both the soft cap and the shared EP/EG scale. It's not at the top of my own list of priorities, but it'd probably help two subpopulations of players with some issues that are currently an irritation to both of them.	
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I think Fran's trying to make her point through a sea of opposition--I don't share her perspective, but I think I can see what she's getting at. She doesn't like to be told "You may not make any more progress towards the goal you want to work towards this week whether you want to or not". I can't blame her for that.
 
I think Vic's suggestion about diminishing returns does a fine job of letting her still make progress without letting her simply become a human version of a bot to break the game's pacing and progression. The steepness of the soft cap still does put a practical limit on the number of EGs a person can collect in a week. As a result, it does still impose a practical limit on how far a person who farms all week can outrun someone who shows up once or twice a week to do a zone or two of dailies. And it does it without reducing the progress made by continuing the grind to a rate of zero per hour. It also nicely addresses the issue of how to handle the EG/plat transition.
 
Very nice idea, Vic.  :) Sorry to see it didn't get more support when it was put forward.
 
However, it does have one obvious problem and it's one that would be a serious mistake to brush off as meaningless. Diminishing returns do make the EG system's already substantial disincentive to make alts even worse. Many people do enjoy playing alts in every MMORPG that I'm familiar with, and it improves familiarity with the strengths and limitations of the other classes that any character teams with as well as increasing the ability to respond flexibly to imbalances in overall population class/faction. Those are good things for the health of the game and it would be a mistake to make them even harder to justify doing than they already are.
 
Of course, there's an obvious solution to this that frankly should have been put in place from the start. If the EP/EG scale tracks across all level-capped characters on a single account, then people who make alts aren't penalized for doing so relative to people who don't. That accommodates both people who like alts AND people who like grinding.
 
So I wouldn't be opposed to a change that includes both the soft cap and the shared EP/EG scale. It's not at the top of my own list of priorities, but it'd probably help two subpopulations of players with some issues that are currently an irritation to both of them.
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I like the idea of having your eg points go to unlocks for the accoubt etc.
 
If I buy las 3 it should go to all of my characters. I shouldnt have to spend 3 weeks of egs per alt etc.
 
also, things like ability points etc would be far better account bound.	
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This is such a non-issue that I can't believe the thread got this big.  EG cap, and the time it takes, is just fine.  Yes, hardcore players will hit that cap quicker than causal ones, that is the nature of the beast.  How long do you suppose the average player plays the game per week?  I wouldn't say per day because I would be shocked if a majority of subscribers logged in daily.
 
You are acting like 5 hours in 1 video game is a trivial amount of time.  Some people play other games, some people have other obligations, and then there are those where 5 hours of Wildstar is less than half their daily average.  But I can also guarantee you that the casual crowd will not magically catch up to a hardcore raider in skill and gear.  They will run out of things to buy with EG very quickly since they wont even unlock the ability to buy the gear in the first place.  Not to mention that all that gear is leaving the EG vendor in Drop 4 anyway.
 
If games upset me as much as they all seem to do for you, Fran, I would honestly stop gaming altogether.	
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I think, as long as the elder gems are still limited to the character that "earned" them, there's not a particular disincentive to make them unless you're talking about how long it takes to get gems to buy things across different characters.  I can see that and definitely understand that; some purchases might be better off being "across the account" so you don't have to grind EG over and over again.  However, that is also sort of the point.  I don't necessarily have strong feelings on that one way or the other.
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			Locked per OP's request.	
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