Report 1325

Report #1325
Skillset: Necroscream Skill: QueensLament
 Org: Cacophony Status: Completed Jul 2015
Furies' Decision:
Approved for solution discussed in comments - when dyscrasia is active, QL adds
5% max health + 1s stun per plague aff, with an extra power cost. Sip balance
loss will be omitted initially, but will be added if the initial solution is
insufficient
Problem: Necroscream is geared toward hindering offense and wearing our
opponents down. This was well suited for the attrition style combat that we used
to have. However, with no way to drive it home - we are all buildup and no bite.
Problem 1 - We lack any kind of coordinated burst or sustainable damage.
Ironchord is low damage and our targeted song only hinders offense. Problem 2 -
Bards attack Mana & Ego on a % of their max values to damage the target's
health. Targets with high Health and low Mana & Ego make these attacks less
effective.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Increase the cost to 3 power. Change it to blackout
 and stun for 3 seconds and drain 10% of max mana and
 max ego. Nifilhema's lament is such that it tears at
 the soul. Once twisted by Dyscrasia, it tears at the
 body.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: In addition to solution 1, when dyscrasia is up
 change the effect to be ironchord. For each plague
 aff add 5% of max health and 1 second of
 unconsciousness. Burns off (cures) all plague affs.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: Change queenslament to be 3 power. Have it give a 4
 second blackout and shackles - like it currently
 does. Have it break sparkleberry, sip (health,
 bromides and mana) and internal (dust) cure balances
 for 3 seconds - or for just 2 seconds if the target
 has blackout immunity. Have it give 12% mana and ego
 drain. Also include solution 2 but not solution 1.
 This isn't very elegant but hopefully going with more
 targeted hindering with a bit of a spam fail safe
 this will addresses some of the concerns raised.
Player Comments:
---[Shuyin on 7/11 @ 00:23 writes]:
Solution 2 is fine with me at first blush
---[Celina on 7/11 @ 00:26 writes]:
I'm all for buffs to bards due to the harsh damage and health changes impacting
us so heavily, but the solution to everything isn't to smack on the best
afflictions in the game. Blackout and stun is not the solution to this,
unconciousness definitely is not either. The solution, I think, should be to
create end scenarios for bards that are unique to each guild (see my report and
Sidd's minstrel report), not just throw powerful afflictions at spammable
skills. Okay with the problem, solutions are way too much.
---[Lerad on 7/11 @ 00:34 writes]:
I would support solution 2 if the unconsciousness is only available if plague
affs are on the target, starting at 1s for the first, and +0.75s for each
additional plague aff. Instead of uncon on-cast without requirements, perhaps
blackout or shackles might be appropriate instead.
---[Lerad on 7/11 @ 00:41 writes]:
Also, stun instead of uncon will likely be a better idea - unconsciousness
prones as well, so its effectiveness will spike a great deal in groups,
especially if shackles is chosen as replacement. Basically, my suggestion is to
change queenslament so that the stun (instead of uncon) is gated behind the
plague aff requirement, making it rewarding only if proper set-up is done. The
scaling percentage health damage and increasing stun will make the skill a low-
cost execute, and that should be the way the mechanics encourage its use, not to
give it no-requirement stuns to be thrown out repeatedly without regard for
whether the target is properly set up with plague affs.
---[Llandros on 7/11 @ 21:29 writes]:
Thanks for the feedback. I changed solution 2 to 1 second of unconsciousness per
plague aff. At 3 power and the set up required to capitalize on them I reject
the notion that spaming them would be advantageous.
---[Llandros on 7/11 @ 21:29 writes]:
Please keep in mind that 4 of the 5 plague affs hinder and their numbers
increase the effects of torturesong, carillonknell and wrathfulcanticle. The
opportunity cost of us losing them is significant. Aslo, since we have no way to
track plague affs or stop the dozen or so ways of curing them so there will
always be significant uncertainty. Opportunity cost + uncertainty = increased
effect.
---[Synkarin on 7/12 @ 03:37 writes]:
There won't be a dozen ways to cure plague affs when the overhaul finishes.
They'll be much easier to stack when things are all finalized so I don't think
that's a valid discussion point. I think unconsciousness is really too much to
have. As Lerad stated, unconciousness is stronger than stun, I would say at the
very minimum, you should start at 1 plague aff to start with 1 second of
unconsciousness.
---[Celina on 7/12 @ 13:53 writes]:
You can reject it all you want, anyone with a modicum of pk expierence and that
is being honest will recognize a three second stun and blackout is prime spam
material in most group fights. Furthermore, your curing is significantly
hindered if stunned and/or unconcious in repeated succession and you have two
(song + contagion) ways of applying plague affs, plus a song that causes cured
plague affs to return. I'm cool with it being an endgame goal, but this report
isn't addressing an endgame. It's alterting the entire setup with the best
afflictions in the game. Not cool with just turning it into a more powerful
group and hindering tool (almost without rival, I might add. 3 second stuns are
rare. Stun and blackout together are even more rare, and in the case of cantors,
often complained about).
---[Celina on 7/12 @ 13:55 writes]:
3 second stun/blackout, web during blackout, reapply 3 second stun/blackout, web
during blackout, reapply 3 second stun/blackout. Complete lockdown with no
realistic way to escape. Pfifth on top of that. "Not spammable," my shadowy left
boob.
---[Llandros on 7/12 @ 17:38 writes]:
@Synkarin in response to Lerad's feedback I changed it start unconsciousness
with the first plague aff. Also, unless the overhaul is going to consolidate
dust, allheale, gedula/green, trueheal, princess, various passive curing, beast
curing and the entire healing tert and everything else that I left out then we
will have to agree to disagree on whether or not that is a valid point.
---[Llandros on 7/12 @ 17:42 writes]:
@Celina if you think that unblockable aeon is equivalent to a minor ego/mana
drain then I have nothing else to say to you or your overdramatic left boob.
---[Celina on 7/13 @ 01:35 writes]:
While I do appreciate sass in a report, it needs to be backed with evidence and
information, and not just distractions used to cover up a lack of response to
the concerns raised. We were talking about stun and blackout, not aeon, if you'd
like to try again. Otherwise, 3 second stun/blackout is simply out of control
for a targeted bard song. It's not good that cantors have it (albeit not three
seconds long), and we should not be looking to them to mirror skill ideas in
place of valid, achievable strategies.
---[Llandros on 7/14 @ 05:44 writes]:
I added a solution 3 to address some of the issues raised. Instead of a blanket
hindering like stun it specifies the minimum amount of hindering needed to
achieve the desired goal. I upped the drain a little to account for the
reduction in healing hindering.
---[Celina on 7/14 @ 22:16 writes]:
Getting closer! I think the effects need to be locked behind the plague
affliction gate. This new suggetsion, with egovice is effectively 24% (ish,
depending on the target) of health for 3 power with no pre requisite. Bards are
pretty balanced over all, they just need a better endgame to account for the new
surge in health across the board. I guess I'm just not following the train of
thought here, if killing high health targets is the goal, why are you not
loading up cacophony with a better, achievable kill condition rather than just
arming them with rocket launchers and damage/stun/blackout spam.
---[Lerad on 7/15 @ 15:59 writes]:
For the current solution 3: 1 extra power cost to add 3s of sparkle/sip/dust
balance knock to the current Queenslament effect? Cure balance knocks are very
strong, and when paired with blackout + shackles, the target effectively can't
do anything - they can't move, attack, or cure. It's a defacto stun. It also
synergizes badly with solution 2: if the target has plague affs and triggers the
uncon, then the cure bal knock will be in effect... while the target is uncon
and unable to cure anyway. Or, rather, triggering the uncon while the target is
under the 3s of multiple cure bal knocks is fairly useless because they can't
cure anyway, uncon or no. Like Celina, I agree that pushing the effects behind
the aff gate is a better choice, rather than putting them upfront as a button to
be leaned on even when the target doesn't have plague affs. Keep the current
Queenslament as it is, with the same 2p cost, but implement solution 2 with the
caveat that if its effects are triggered, an extra power is taken. You could
then tie the cure balance knocks to scale as well, and come into effect AFTER
the uncon wears off. 1 plague aff = 1s uncon and 1s sip bal knock after the
uncon. 2 plague affs = 2s uncon and 2s sip bal knock after the uncon. Now THAT
would be an execute ability. Limit it to just the sip bal knock, that's all you
really need to prevent the target from curing up while you minorsecond them
after triggering 3 or 4 plague affs.
---[Synkarin on 7/17 @ 00:58 writes]:
Solution 3 is pretty out of this world crazy, blackout, stun, 3 separate
balances knocked off for 3 seconds, AND 12% mana/ego drain? Listing every random
curing balance in the game doesn't really validate that there are a 'dozen' way
to cure things. I'm not sure you'd like everyone starting to use that argument
in every report from this point on. Solution 2 seems reasonable to me, solution
3 is crazy.
---[Llandros on 7/28 @ 00:27 writes]:
Solution #4 Queenslament stays the same and at 2p unless dyscrasia is up and
then solution 2 kicks in at 3p. I would not object to Lerad's suggestion of
adding on a second of sip balance disruption after the unconsciousness ends
either.
---[Llandros on 7/28 @ 10:33 writes]:
** addendum to solution 4 - change the normal queenslament to include a 1 second
eq disruption to encourage using writhe. Same power cost.
---[Llandros on 7/31 @ 23:38 writes]:
Solution 4 leaves the component that people seem ok with and will make the
current situation slightly better by addressing the discrepancy between
summer/tepheret and writhe (despair web increases writhe time by 1 second) which
will normalize the effect and make it more predictably useful.