125142-carbine-whatever-happen-to-the-devs-are-listening

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The game is hurt. You know what would make it better? Hmm maybe what the community wants, BUY TO PLAY. Buy to play will only benefit you guys and will make more players come into the game. If your really going to neglect the change in popularity that ESO had and say B2P won't help the game you guys are completely wrong. Just do it already, we wanna see this game live for years and years to come. What else makes me sick? The fact I barely see CRB around here or anywhere anymore. There's almost no reason for me to post this because I won't get a proper response from you guys anyway. I love this game guys I really do. I've been playing since beta and its only gotten better. Just pleeaseee make this one decision. Please.
 	
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The game is hurt. You know what would make it better? Hmm maybe what the community wants, BUY TO PLAY. Buy to play will only benefit you guys and will make more players come into the game. If your really going to neglect the change in popularity that ESO had and say B2P won't help the game you guys are completely wrong. Just do it already, we wanna see this game live for years and years to come. What else makes me sick? The fact I barely see CRB around here or anywhere anymore. There's almost no reason for me to post this because I won't get a proper response from you guys anyway. I love this game guys I really do. I've been playing since beta and its only gotten better. Just pleeaseee make this one decision. Please.
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			I don't think you can speak on behalf of the community like this. Only a portion of players want B2P. Personally, I hope they keep the current P2P model and advertise the game more.	
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OP, surely they have more accurate statistics than you. Further, they wouldn't be in the business if they didn't know the market and the competition's standings. They will most probably, however, deem it inappropriate to discuss the situation with you.
 
Just give it some time, they won't announce it till the anniversary anyway.	
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			the community want b2p? thats kinda innacurate im part of the community and i dont want that	
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please refrain from talking for me , IF i want that ill like you post or agree in a post. 
 
I disagree btw	
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			This thread is new and engaging! I swear I have never seen this idea thrown out there before! 	
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I use to want b2p/f2p, now, I don't, and if they did do it, I wouldn't mind but I wouldnt be happy either. I have seen more and more people coming back/trying the game out... this game can be saved without a model change.
 
Ditch the PvP server
More promotions
Offer some sort of reward to returning players.
 
 
If the devs weren't listening, we wouldn't be getting pets, frequent content updates, pvp rallying, same faction bgs, ect.
 
I do agree the devs need to post more on here though...	
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and also to agree to this
 
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I use to want b2p/f2p, now, I don't, and if they did do it, I wouldn't mind but I wouldnt be happy either. I have seen more and more people coming back/trying the game out... this game can be saved without a model change.
 
Ditch the PvP server
More promotions
Offer some sort of reward to returning players.
 
 
If the devs weren't listening, we wouldn't be getting pets, frequent content updates, pvp rallying, same faction bgs, ect.
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Heh, judging by the amount of activity I've been seeing in the game lately, I don't think I would hold my breath for a business model shift just yet. 
 
I know a lot of people really hated it, and this might just be a placebo effect of sorts, but the recent promo with the mystery boxes actually seems like it worked to fill up the server a bit.  There's also been a lot more of those "just subbed"/"re-subbing" posts on the forums lately.  I think I've also been seeing more people than usual and dungeon queues have been popping more regularly. 
 
I'm also an Exile on Entity, so take this with a grain of salt, but things really do seem to be looking up population wise.	
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If the devs weren't listening, we wouldn't be getting pets, frequent content updates, pvp rallying, same faction bgs, ect.
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I think it's safe to say that somehow, some way, word got out.
 
I'm not sure I understand what the goal of your post was?  Negativity for the sake of negativity?	
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The game is hurt. You know what would make it better? Hmm maybe what the community wants, BUY TO PLAY. Buy to play will only benefit you guys and will make more players come into the game. If your really going to neglect the change in popularity that ESO had and say B2P won't help the game you guys are completely wrong. Just do it already, we wanna see this game live for years and years to come. What else makes me sick? The fact I barely see CRB around here or anywhere anymore. There's almost no reason for me to post this because I won't get a proper response from you guys anyway. I love this game guys I really do. I've been playing since beta and its only gotten better. Just pleeaseee make this one decision. Please.
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Hello!
 
Don't forget you can check our dev tracker here, and for a wider range of developer interaction you can check this one here that includes more than just the forums. Our team does try to post frequently - though they're also busy getting things ready for Drop 5 so it's hard to be as vocal as I'm sure everyone wants them to be. :) Just wanted to link those in case they were somehow missed. ^.^ 
 
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 The fact I barely see CRB around here or anywhere anymore. 
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			making the game pay 2 win will be the final nail in the coffin. a game turning to f2p will always be a surrender to maximizing revenues.regardless of my thoughts on the matter, people are not going to play a free game unless its fun, why does no one ever suggest we make the game better worth the sub, why do people think that every game needs to be freemium.	
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Content updates... they actually reduced that and so far I've not heard anyone being happy about that.
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The last thing I (and most of the community) want is B2P.
 
The only people who actually want B2P are the freeloaders who want to skip out on a sub.
 
moderator edit: language 
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I'm playing till September (Got credd stacked) So that's not the issue.
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The game is hurt. You know what would make it better? Hmm maybe what the community wants, BUY TO PLAY. Buy to play will only benefit you guys and will make more players come into the game. If your really going to neglect the change in popularity that ESO had and say B2P won't help the game you guys are completely wrong. Just do it already, we wanna see this game live for years and years to come. What else makes me sick? The fact I barely see CRB around here or anywhere anymore. There's almost no reason for me to post this because I won't get a proper response from you guys anyway. I love this game guys I really do. I've been playing since beta and its only gotten better. Just pleeaseee make this one decision. Please.
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			Yeah... I still prefer P2P... I would accept B2P, but I'm definitely not dying to get it or anything... I think you need to replace "the community" with "I"...	
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Need ta' get this off my chest. 
 
Devs are listening only implies that they listen to your idea. It doesn't mean they acknowledge it and implement it. 
They might listen to your ideas, but it doesn't mean they're good. You don't speak for anybody but yourself as do I. 	
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Hello!
 
Don't forget you can check our dev tracker here, and for a wider range of developer interaction you can check this one here that includes more than just the forums. Our team does try to post frequently - though they're also busy getting things ready for Drop 5 so it's hard to be as vocal as I'm sure everyone wants them to be. :) Just wanted to link those in case they were somehow missed. ^.^ 
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I want P2P so your statement is not valid.
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1. I know a lot that have, the majority did (as far as I am aware), one person does not equal the community
2. Dethmold already pointed this out, but just wanted to enforce it again, if you were playing at launch, you would notice how bad drop 1 and 2 were. They were that bad that my guild left the game (which resulted in me being lazy and not bothering to find a new guild so I followed them back to WoW). I for one was over the moon when this was announced, so yes, I am happy, as was a lot of people at that time.
3. They are trying to "fix" PVP (honestly, it seems fine to me, but I am a casual PVP'er that doesnt care about ranks), so yea they are listening on that end. Just because they are not responding, does not mean they are not listening (pretty much the exact same thing I say to the missus)
4. I hope that was sarcasm? Can you hear the out roar if we had to stay on the PVP server? Sure it may have more people if no free transfers, but realistically, the community, being as small as it is, does not need to be separated by servers (never mind region) at the time of it being implemented, so yes they listened and put in a feature that would glide people to the same server.
 
I get the impression you were having a bad day and thought to blow some steam on the forums?
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when we had the mega servers, the PvP server Luminai was actually larger in players then Jabbit so according to your logic it should have been the other way around. Anyway it took them far too long to react to everyone leaving ship... and there where some attempts by the community on Luminai to organize events and such to keep it lively. Many tried to contact Carbine asking where we could promote it and if they maybe wanted to promote it on their twitter or something or give us some kind of support. I've asked around and we are all still waiting for a reply. From that point I don't believe at all anymore that the devs are listening, the least they could do was write 1 of us a reply but they didn't.
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I've seen better communities then this in F2P games.
It's the people and their respect and interest that makes the community, so i would say the game makes the community not the payment model. 
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			I see no reason to go F2P or B2P at this point. As it was mentioned before. The population is starting to perk up. The devs are adding fluf this next patch and more QoL stuff. The patch after that i am going to safely assume there will be a raid. Hopefully a nice long one to bide our time till the next raid or their first expansion.	
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If you've seen better communities in F2P games, why are you not enjoying their company?
 
I personally have played over 20+ F2P/B2P MMO's and all their communities have been horrible.
 
P2P for me has ALWAYS consistently provided a better community. This game has been no exception.
 
The hostility your facing is from the people fighting back against the small minority of vocal gamers who want the game for free. The vast majority don't want that.
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Anything Frost said or made promises with while with NCsoft were vaporized the moment he left.
 
Frost said the game won't go F2P/B2P, but that went out the window the moment he left.	
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I do, I'm currently focused on 2 MMO like most players these days and I've 2 others on the side as well where i dip in now and again. that is why P2P is also old fashioned.
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I do, I'm currently focused on 2 MMO like most players these days and I've 2 others on the side as well where i dip in now and again. that is why P2P is also old fashioned.
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Anything Frost said or made promises with while with NCsoft were vaporized the moment he left.
 
Frost said the game won't go F2P/B2P, but that went out the window the moment he left.
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The game is hurt. You know what would make it better? Hmm maybe what the community wants I want, BUY TO PLAY. Buy to play will only benefit you guys and will make more players come into the game. If your really going to neglect the change in popularity that ESO had and say B2P won't help the game you guys are completely wrong. Just do it already, we wanna see this game live for years and years to come. What else makes me sick? The fact I barely see CRB around here or anywhere anymore. There's almost no reason for me to post this because I won't get a proper response from you guys anyway. I love this game guys I really do. I've been playing since beta and its only gotten better. Just pleeaseee make this one decision. Please.
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			Don't like misleading thread titles. Title has nothing to do with payment models- you should change it.	
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Lol, no. He wasn't making the business or marketing decisions. He was just delivering them.
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			Hello clickbait, you win again.	
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This is the problem. Players are trying to play an MMORPG as a basic video game, which is leading developers to build them that way, which in turns minimizes the things we love about the genre.
 
A well-designed MMOPRG is consumed more as a hobby in and unto itself. If you can play 4 or 5 of them at a time, then you're either spending too much time playing games and ignoring life, or they are so shallow they may as well be pong.
 
Players who want to fit that kind of schedule around WildStar? I'd say that's their problem, and the game nor the business model should accommodate them.
 
A subscription fee is a steal for a well-design MMORPG.
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Again, you are further proving my point. Pick up and Drop players who return for content binges are NOT good for the community and the long term.
 
 
Well i pick 1 sub and its wildstar and many others too. Your making a lot of assumptions.
 
 
Thats again because your part of the F2P/B2P mentality of the current MMO gamer generation. Your multiple MMO's, pick up and drop content binges are not good for games and communities, but you don't realise this. Because who cares right? Your having fun and your effect on others is transient.
 
 
I would say this community is extremely friend and helpful and only toxic to people who try and push against the style this community has developed.
 
 
Again, your assuming everything. This community i bet would prefer to keep this game P2P, if you don't like that or can't afford that i'm really sorry for you. But let the small community who have this enjoy their game the way we want it.
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I'm going to jump in and say there's no need for F2P or B2P when it comes to WildStar because of a particular reason.
the CREDD system.
The CREDD system works, and it was copied by WoW, as it was Copied from EVE.
WildStar doesn't need to change business model, it needs more players.
 
If it were up to me, my design would be this
"WildStar is now free for 15 days!" (Remove the requirement to buy a box/digital copy).
"WildStar now no longer requires a purchase, only a subscription!" 15$
"But don't worry about having to maintain that subscription Cupcake, you can purchase in game time with gold by buying CREDD! (Post NPC Screenshot of CREDD market)"
"It's practically Free to play!"
"Got a friend that wants to play with you? Let them get a free account, and at the end of 15 days, here's where the awesome CREDD part comes in. We allow gifting and sharing of CREDD to time lasped accounts."
"So grab some CREDD, or Grab some gold, forget that credit card, and get your ass to Nexus!"
 
 
In technical terminology.
1. Remove the box price. 15 day trial
2. Maintain the 15$ subscription based model, continue to sell CREDD at 20$ USD
3. Put the "Purchase Deluxe Edition" upgrade in the shop, and have a real money in-game shop for CREDD, Account Services and Deluxe Edition upgrade only.
Then
4. ADVERTISE THE BLOODY HELL OUT OF WIDLSTAR WITH THIS CHANGE SAYING THE GAME IS NOW FREE TO TRY, AND THERE IS NO REQUIRED PURCHASE TO PLAY THE GAME.
 
That's my suggestion Carbine.
You know what other game does this? Eve Online. The same game that WildStar got the idea for CREDD from.
 
It's really that simple Carbine.	
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			That's a very creative solution Fran. (Seriously I know you "borrowed" it but we'll done haha.)	
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That's a very creative solution Fran. (Seriously I know you "borrowed" it but we'll done haha.)
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			Yeah eliminating the box price will definitely get more people in. If they can make enough plat to get themselves a CREDD then it's essentially F2P for them, and Carbine is making more than a sub, albeit in a way that's harder for them to forecast.	
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If they can make enough plat to get themselves a CREDD then it's essentially F2P for them, and Carbine is making more than a sub, albeit in a way that's harder for them to forecast.
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Well that's the rub.  For somebody with an established 50 making enough plat to afford CREDD isn't that hard.  It's that "established 50" part that's the problem.  Some people *waves hand* didn't hit 50 until the 2nd month.  Others took quite a bit longer.  Then there's the distraction of exploring the world as a new player.  A few people know how to make money in games.  Others consider it a huge chore and won't bother.
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Framing Wildstar as virtually B2P/F2P is a trap.  Some will achieve the income needed to live on CREDD but not enough.  The danger is that those people will turbo grind to 50 and burn out or they'll take their time and get frustrated when they fall far short of the plat needed to afford their next CREDD.  IMO it's best to maintain that it's an alternative method to acquire subscription time.
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Well that's the rub.  For somebody with an established 50 making enough plat to afford CREDD isn't that hard.  It's that "established 50" part that's the problem.  Some people *waves hand* didn't hit 50 until the 2nd month.  Others took quite a bit longer.  Then there's the distraction of exploring the world as a new player.  A few people know how to make money in games.  Others consider it a huge chore and won't bother.
 
Framing Wildstar as virtually B2P/F2P is a trap.  Some will achieve the income needed to live on CREDD but not enough.  The danger is that those people will turbo grind to 50 and burn out or they'll take their time and get frustrated when they fall far short of the plat needed to afford their next CREDD.  IMO it's best to maintain that it's an alternative method to acquire subscription time.
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I've been thinking, a lot, and I got to wondering a few things about this ongoing debate about business models and which one is better than the others.  I've got a few questions, as always :)  This could be long, so I'm going to start at the start of my thought process here.
 
I started playing videogames at roughly the age of 9, got my first Nintendo and that was the start of my favorite hobby.  Now here's the thing, every game between then and the creation of the MMO genre has been "Buy-to-Play".  You buy the game for $60, take it home, stick it into the machine and proceed to play it as much as you want, whenever you want, no strings attached.  It's yours, you bought it.
 
Then games like Ultima Online and Everquest came long, and thus started the "Subscription Fee" phenomenon.  You buy the box for $60, but after the first month if you want to continue to play this game you have to continue to pay the developer $15 for every month you want to play your game. 
 
If you choose not to pay $15 for that month then you are cut-off, no more playing, you don't get past the Login screen.  Until you decide that you're ready to cough up another $15 a month, everything, literally everything that you have done with that game is hidden behind a paywall.  It's held hostage in a sense.  You can't talk to your guildmates, you can't sort your characters mail, you can't even look at your character select screen.  Nothing.
 
Can you imagine if Fromsoftware told you that you had to pay them $15 a month to keep playing Dark Souls after the first 30 days?  What about if Bethesda said that about Skyrim or Oblivion?  Or, Blizzard cut you off after 30 days of playing Diablo 3 unless you continued to pay them?  How's about we move out of the RPG genre entirely and ask about Call of Duty, Halo, Madden 2014, Mortal Kombat, etc. etc. the list goes on and on...  These are all games that carry with them very significant fanbases and are games that continue to receive developer support and DLC without charging an additional $15 a month at the threat of telling you that you can't play anymore because you didn't pay a subscription fee this month.
 
Now, getting back to MMOs:  MMOs are the only genre of game I have seen in the last 21+ years where people not only are willing to pay a $15 subscription fee, but actually defend the idea (sometimes very rudely).  But, why?  Since when did it become "acceptable" for a company to do this?  And, why do people defend it?
 
Is it because MMOs are supposedly "big" and "complex"?  The assumption that "things will get better" if people continue to filter money into the company's bank account?  There are lots of "big" and "complex" games out there that don't follow this business practice.  And how do we know how much that REALLY costs the company?  How often do MMO developers share their company's costs with their customers publicly?
 
What do people always say when an MMO is released?  "BUGS" "IMBALANCE" "BROKEN SYSTEMS"!  Why should we buy the promise that "things will get better"?  Shouldn't they have been "great" or at least "good" at release?  Don't other companies also provide patches and fixes for broken content after their games are released?  Sure they do.
 
What about this vague promise that "new content will be introduced" at some unspecified point in the future?  How many game developers create Expansion Packs for their games without charging a $15 sub-fee every month?
 
Or, think about it from this angle ->  What if Carbine had rolled all of their content updates up to this point into one Expansion Pack?  How much would you have been willing to pay for it?  $20?  $40?  $60?  How much have you actually paid for it as a subscriber?  $60?  $90?  $120?  $240? 
 
How much did you pay for Drops 1 through 4 and would you still have paid that price if you were given the choice, to know what you were getting before you bought it?  Because you certainly did buy the product before you even saw it and you paid a lot for it if you were subscribed for any significant period of time before it was released.  Think about how long it is taking for Drop 5.  Going on 3 months ($45) or 4 months ($60) for Drop 5 alone and you haven't actually seen the product yet - what if you don't think it's worth more than $10 or $20?
 
So, MMOs are released in an unpolished state, in some ways even broken (or at least portions), and we are sold the promise that if we continue to pay the company then "things will get better" and we will "get more content".  What if Carbine had taken the time to polish Wildstar to the same level as Fromsoftware did with Dark Souls?  How many people would have stuck around to play?  How many people left because of bugs and broken systems?  What if Carbine knew that their only revenue after the release of the game would come from box sales and subsequent expansions?  Do you think they would have taken the Q&A process a little more seriously, listened to feedback a little more, and just maybe would have released an overall higher quality product from the start?
 
And there it is, why do we accept Subscription Fees from MMOs when there's no way in hell we would accept this business model with other genres of games?  Why do people actually defend this practice so feverishly?	
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Well that's the rub.  For somebody with an established 50 making enough plat to afford CREDD isn't that hard.  It's that "established 50" part that's the problem.  Some people *waves hand* didn't hit 50 until the 2nd month.  Others took quite a bit longer.  Then there's the distraction of exploring the world as a new player.  A few people know how to make money in games.  Others consider it a huge chore and won't bother.
 
Framing Wildstar as virtually B2P/F2P is a trap.  Some will achieve the income needed to live on CREDD but not enough.  The danger is that those people will turbo grind to 50 and burn out or they'll take their time and get frustrated when they fall far short of the plat needed to afford their next CREDD.  IMO it's best to maintain that it's an alternative method to acquire subscription time.
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Can you imagine if Fromsoftware told you that you had to pay them $15 a month to keep playing Dark Souls after the first 30 days?  What about if Bethesda said that about Skyrim or Oblivion?  Or, Blizzard cut you off after 30 days of playing Diablo 3 unless you continued to pay them?  How's about we move out of the RPG genre entirely and ask about Call of Duty, Halo, Madden 2014, Mortal Kombat, etc. etc. the list goes on and on...  These are all games that carry with them very significant fanbases and are games that continue to receive developer support and DLC without charging an additional $15 a month at the threat of telling you that you can't play anymore because you didn't pay a subscription fee this month.
 
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Can you imagine if Fromsoftware told you that you had to pay them $15 a month to keep playing Dark Souls after the first 30 days?  What about if Bethesda said that about Skyrim or Oblivion?
 
What if Carbine had taken the time to polish Wildstar to the same level as Fromsoftware did with Dark Souls? 
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Can you imagine if Fromsoftware told you that you had to pay them $15 a month to keep playing Dark Souls after the first 30 days?  What about if Bethesda said that about Skyrim or Oblivion?  Or, Blizzard cut you off after 30 days of playing Diablo 3 unless you continued to pay them?  How's about we move out of the RPG genre entirely and ask about Call of Duty, Halo, Madden 2014, Mortal Kombat, etc. etc. the list goes on and on...  These are all games that carry with them very significant fanbases and are games that continue to receive developer support and DLC without charging an additional $15 a month at the threat of telling you that you can't play anymore because you didn't pay a subscription fee this month.
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Can you not look past the example to see what he is saying?
 
Also why do you need xbox live or PS plus if you play CoD on the PC?	
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Can you not look past the example to see what he is saying?
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			There are enough F2P or B2P,MMO's out there so pretent he said that.	
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			Low level characters can make tons of money selling low level resources. Maybe not T1 stuff, but definitely T2-4 is selling for more than the T5 stuff. Hit every plant you see. Pick up 2 harvesting skills and hit every node you find (mining and survivalist will probably be best). Being a low level doesn't exclude you from farming enough plat to buy a CREDD.  You just can't do it running dailies and turning your exp into plat. It takes a bit more effort (and CX maintenance) but as someone who buys alot of stuff from the CX for crafting, I know what the value of lower level resources are (especially the malgrave level stuff!)	
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Srfrogg does make some great points even if the example he chose wasn't the best, seriously Dark souls was awful when released on PC, but there are other games that were great at release and did have some pretty good replay value. The only thing that I can really see as a difference with MMO's compared to these single player games is that I have been known to play an MMO for well over a year, while single players I usually don't play longer than a month, 2 if it was really good.
 
Point is, MMO's do tend to last much longer than a single player game if they are really good and built to last that long. The ones that aren't are usually released right away as F2P/B2P such as GW2 which is clearly something that you aren't really supposed to play constantly in an attempt to progress your character as it is more of a hop in and out type of game. This set up wasn't really my thing and thus I never really got into GW2, but it's not a bad game so I can see why others love it and that model works well for it because it is designed to be that kind of game.
 
I've said it a few times around here that I don't really care what model they run as long as a optional sub fee is offered I will run that route as 15 a month doesn't bother me....I paid for the lifetime sub of TSW and I don't regret it because as far as I'm concerned it was an amazing story and I was happy to support the devs of that game even if the lifetime sub was overall useless to me as I haven't played that game in about 8 months now. I guess the point I'm trying to make here is simply this, while single player games are usually all B2P with DLC's for purchase later, MMO's are just something I always end up playing for a much longer period of time, hell, I've played Wildstar for longer than any single player and I had to step away from the game for 5 months due to RL issues.
 
As far as people defending the sub fee? Go take a look at Dragons Prophet's cash shop. Many of us MMO gamers have seen these types of F2P models and they are just awful. To get the full enjoyment of that particular game you will be paying at least 500-1000$ as well as being continually nickle and dimed every month for waaaaay more than 15$. So, the majority of sub players feel like, if I have to pay something I don't want it to be more than 15$, which is why I said offer me an optional sub fee and don't gate half your game behind a cash shop or I'm out. Simple as that.	
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There are enough F2P or B2P,MMO's out there so pretent he said that.
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And I think a great deal of them focus more on cashing out of their playerbase rather than making quality content, so...  Even if I did I still wouldn't agree.  I've worked that side of the industry as well, it's no fun if you're super into the game.
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Have you worked for a subscription MMO?
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As far as people defending the sub fee? Go take a look at Dragons Prophet's cash shop. Many of us MMO gamers have seen these types of F2P models and they are just awful. To get the full enjoyment of that particular game you will be paying at least 500-1000$ as well as being continually nickle and dimed every month for waaaaay more than 15$. So, the majority of sub players feel like, if I have to pay something I don't want it to be more than 15$, which is why I said offer me an optional sub fee and don't gate half your game behind a cash shop or I'm out. Simple as that.
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As a volunteer a long time ago.  My most relevant work to this situation came from ArenaNet, and I did not enjoy having to spend time making cash shop items.
 
If that's enough for you to disregard my argument though, then we can end this exchange here.
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I know but you talked about subscription based MMO and you said that you worked on that side of the industry as well. So was curious if it was any better or not.
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			Insert localization in other languages (at least subtitles) for attract new player and relaunch this game	
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Insert localization in other languages (at least subtitles) for attract new player and relaunch this game
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Let alone time consuming!
 
I don't understand why a business model has anything to do with DEVs but there ya go, that's a senior management decision.	
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I truly hope Wildstar doesn't go b2p as I think it might be recovering somewhat at least I hope it is.
I don't understand why they don't just go with f2p up to a certain level, maybe with a few restrictions in place. I don't see any real downside to this. The lower levels would be constantly busy even if people don't sub they might just keep rolling alts and having fun. If they do this they'll have a lot more players around and if the game is as good as many of us think, a lot of those folks might subscribe.
I know nothing about developing video games and maybe it's not that easy to do this but surely it would address the issue of low population in the early zones and get people invested in the game enough to want to pay for it.	
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I truly hope Wildstar doesn't go b2p ...
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Honestly, I think all of us are spending way too much time and energy stressing over what's to come.
 
"What will be, will be" and there is likely nothing that we, as a community, can do to change it - well, outside of convincing every person we know to come and play Wildstar, which, while a great thought, isn't really practical.
 
The folks in charge have already seen the wall they're up against, and it's a pretty good bet the money-men have already slapped the facts on the table. We all know that things (read: population issues) are getting better, but there is likely still a long way to go to reach a more comfortable paying population. Whatever they decide (or have already decided and are just being mum on) is going to be about two very basic principals: making more money and getting more people to play.
 
We can't fault them for wanting either, even if we don't all agree on how to achieve those ends.
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Do you have any idea how expensive that is?
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Your correct of course. It's just tough not knowing. It's a safe bet that most everyone who's commenting on these type of threads truly care about the game and that's a good thing. I think feedback is good though but I see what your saying. We just need to be a bit more patient and hope for the best possible outcome  :)
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This game is fun but so empty .
localization in other language attracts other players who pay the game.
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It's not only that but the CREDD market is also quite small and the Sellers have the upper hand because some will need to buy it for next subscription.
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Maybe but if it cost a million to do so then it should bring in a million quickly as well and I doubt that is the case.
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Aion, dc universe, neverwinter, rapplez, meetin2 [...] have much gained from the translation of the game.  Why shouldn't wildstar  that is a better game than the ones I listed earlier?
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Supply and Demand still work in MMO's.  Sellers still need to price their CREDD for what the Buyers will tolerate.  If nobody buys your CREDD you get no plat.  Each buyer has a threshold where they'll just walk away from the market.  That threshold is a function of their income vs. their expenses.  Smart buyers maintain a reserve (mine's back up to 5) so they can weather a temporary bounce.  If the price of CREDD gets too high I have the means to pay for a sub.
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			Then you should go back and delete the post I was quoting, Chillia. Not that hard, come on.	
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The game needs a free to play trial to level 15.   No access to mail, AH, housing, but you can view others housing.  It would allow for a decent taste of the game (adventure, dungeon, pvp, shiphands, and a start into professions.)  Without life at the lower levels new and returning players won't stick around.
 
I prefer P2P.
But I should mention this is my 4th trip back to Nexus for various reasons.  Specifically - I won't subscribe if I can't access all of a games advertised features.  	
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You state that as a buyer, have you tried doing this as a supplier?  The 12% tax really hurts the already paper thin margins on most resources and you're better off just vendoring them.  Yes there are things that sell well but the supplier needs to have an awareness of the server economy that I've found that most MMO players don't grasp or can't be bothered to.
 
If you're in Malgrave you're close enough to 50 that you'd be better off just grinding it out.
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I'm pretty sure when they're selling t3 and t4 materials for 40-70s each, there is no "paper thin margin" to deal with.
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Are you talking plants?  (bladeleaf, goldleaf, logicleaf, etc.)  The high value plants go for a bunch because they're painful to find in the open world.  Even if you plant the seeds you still need to do open world gathering.
 
(Entity) Wood is vendor bait.  Omni-plasm is marginal.  Only platinum and galactium have the margins to generate plat quickly enough to afford CREDD.  The downside with mining is that its nodes are the only ones that have a minimum character level requirement so you need to be level 25 for plat or 45 for galactium.  At 45 you're better off getting those last 5 levels and running Vet Shiphands.
 
It's not impossible but it requires specific knowledge (optimal gathering paths, valuable resources, which addons to use, etc.) that most newbies won't be aware of.
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The game needs a free to play trial to level 15.   No access to mail, AH, housing, but you can view others housing.  It would allow for a decent taste of the game (adventure, dungeon, pvp, shiphands, and a start into professions.)  Without life at the lower levels new and returning players won't stick around.
 
I prefer P2P.
But I should mention this is my 4th trip back to Nexus for various reasons.  Specifically - I won't subscribe if I can't access all of a games advertised features.  
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I suddenly feel the need to hire you to manage the crap in my inventory . . .
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Are you talking plants?  (bladeleaf, goldleaf, logicleaf, etc.)  The high value plants go for a bunch because they're painful to find in the open world.  Even if you plant the seeds you still need to do open world gathering.
 
(Entity) Wood is vendor bait.  Omni-plasm is marginal.  Only platinum and galactium have the margins to generate plat quickly enough to afford CREDD.  The downside with mining is that its nodes are the only ones that have a minimum character level requirement so you need to be level 25 for plat or 45 for galactium.  At 45 you're better off getting those last 5 levels and running Vet Shiphands.
 
It's not impossible but it requires specific knowledge (optimal gathering paths, valuable resources, which addons to use, etc.) that most newbies won't be aware of.
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there is already a 10 day free trial to lvl 20
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Which does absolutely nothing to breathe life into the game.  I've given several of my friends keys and trials.  It's useless when you can't queue anything or see very few in the game world.
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That's entirely subjective, though.
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It's an MMO.  I'm currently playing a single player RPG until I get to 50.  If it was so subjective, why do these threads continue?
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It's an MMO.  I'm currently playing a single player RPG until I get to 50.  If it was so subjective, why do these threads continue?
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Because this is the outlet for people dissatisfied with the game.  This is where they dump that frustration.  There's an interesting double-standard at play where positive feedback is disregarded, and negative feedback is championed.  It's maddening.
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In my experience Wildstar has the worst overall "community" of any MMO I've played in my 14 years playing, regardless of business model. It's like the shrink in player base has distilled the garbage into the rankest sewage.
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I also agree with these gentlemen, i prefer P2P. I like my community.
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In my experience Wildstar has the worst overall "community" of any MMO I've played in my 14 years playing, regardless of business model. It's like the shrink in player base has distilled the garbage into the rankest sewage.
 
 
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Lol, ok.  You can think I'm angry all you want.  I'm just pointing out the obvious.  So what if B2P and F2P games "make content directed at my wallet"?  Just because it's there doesn't mean that I have to pay for it.  Do you really think I care about a Snarfelynx or Glitter Kitty hoverboard?  I sure as hell didn't rush out and buy 13 boxes for some ridiculous promotion on top of paying my Sub-Fee, there's definitely no way I would buy goofy cosmetic crap from some cash-shop either.
 
But guess what, with B2P and F2P, even if you choose not to pay for that crap you can still play the game.  P2P doesn't do that, pure and simple.
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Hey folks,
 
Disagreement and healthy discussion is great, but please do so without taking jabs at one another.	
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Seriously, write them some heartfelt letter all about how "Nexus is like a second home to you" and how "big of a fan" you are, point out how much money you have already spent.  See what kind of a response you get, trust me, It's your money they are after.  Don't pretend that this group of complete strangers is even remotely concerned with you as a human being.
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In my experience Wildstar has the worst overall "community" of any MMO I've played in my 14 years playing, regardless of business model. It's like the shrink in player base has distilled the garbage into the rankest sewage.
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In my experience Wildstar has the worst overall "community" of any MMO I've played in my 14 years playing, regardless of business model. It's like the shrink in player base has distilled the garbage into the rankest sewage.
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You must have had some really super amazing communities then, because WS playerbase (not the people on the forums) are some of the nicest, most generous, friendly and all-around helpful people I've ever had the pleasure of gaming with.
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You do know that every that plays the game has a forum account as well. ;)
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Once again this is not the thread for F2P/B2P etc arguments, we do have an active thread already for that (or two, or three) so lets please stay on topic right now which is community. :) 
 
Thank you. :)
- Team WildStar 	
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Once again this is not the thread for F2P/B2P etc arguments, we do have an active thread already for that (or two, or three) so lets please stay on topic right now which is community. :) 
 
Thank you. :)
- Team WildStar 
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but not everyone that posts on the forum plays the game. there are many frequent trolls here.
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You can only post here when you have an active account.
So yes everyone that post here has an active account.
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I don't have friends playing.  12 friends given keys and trials, some would like to return some won't ever.  And I disagree wholeheartedly, queue's were included in the game to be operational, not just UI clutter.
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I wonder how many Elder scrolls online fans .. Are ranting against.. B2p on their forums.   Actually there are none. The precedent has been proven. A month since Tamriel unlimited.. still tons of folks have stayed and are enjoying the game. 
The community is the nicest community I have had the pleasure of playing with. Every new person who comes on is welcomed. I don't see trolling. I don't see negative comments because that person is not subbing just a b2p newbie. 
Instead they have realized that having more people in the community is a good thing. The world is far more alive then ever before. And they realize thats Awesome. Wildstar needs that love. Wildstar needs a community of players who instead of running from a change that will happen if they want their game to survive and thrive , They need players who understand the realities of the market today. Expecting new folks to just trial and stay when they don't find tons of players to play is unrealistic. 
 
Not every free to play game is setup with a cash shop like Dragon's prophet. Look at.. Tera. They have a fantastic sub model. Its designed well. Guild Wars 2 model is pretty good to. Making blanket assumptions about how wildstar 's sub model would be is foolish. There are plenty of good models out there that would allow this game to survive and thrive. I state again.. if you are a true fan of the game you want it to succeed. You want to be able to log on one day at 10am est on a tuesday and see 100s of players in town chatting with each other and having fun.  
 
You can't be happy that the only time the game is active is a small period between 6pm-11pm.  You can't logically state to yourself or anyone that this is good long term for a community. And you can't state this is great when you realize all the money carbine invested in those early servers during launch. 	
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Since we already have open active discussions on subscription choices and this conversation is no longer centered around community (as it was previously) but keeps going back to the subscription stuff I'm going to lock it and redirect the conversations to our already active threads which are: 
 
here
here 
and here. 
 
 
Thanks!
- Team WildStar 	
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