142442-questions-about-outfitter-talents

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I searched everywhere but couldn't find up to date information about the talents or anything that explained clearly.
 
Here are my questions:
1. Can anyone explain to me what EXACTLY those talents do:
- Increase Socket Charge range by 12.5%
- Prevent X element socket from appearing.
- Reduce basic material requirements by 1.
- Provides more precise control over socket charge. (If I could get numbers that'd be great)
- Decrease penalty for mismatching a socket by 5%.
 
2. Is "Increase maximum overcharge by 3%" the same as "Increase maximum failure rate by 2.5%."
 
3. Am I right to think that "Decrease failure rate by 10%." means that if I make an item and reach, let's say, 40% failure rate, it means I'll only have 30% chance to fail so long as my maximum overcharge is 40% or higher? And if my maximum overcharge is at like 35%, 40% failure rate - 10% from the talent won't allow me to make the item?
 
 
I think I understand what all of the talents do, but considering the cost for respeccing, I don't want to screw it up and I want to be sure that I understand properly.
			
				
	Edited October 11, 2015 by snaplemouton	
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Hey there. There was another post in this very same forum about this yesterday... You could have gotten the answers looking there. Anyway, here goes:
 
"Increase Socket Charge range by 12.5%" means your maximums and minimums for socket charge are 12.5% further away. If a recipe started a slot with 0% overcharge and it had 200 glance (example) rating in it, if the minimum was 100 rating (aka, you remove charge from that slot as far as you could), then with this talent, the minimum would become 87.5 (I don't know if it would round up or down).
 
"Prevent X element socket from appearing" basically means your items will never get a slot of that element/color. It's straightforward.
 
"Reduce basic material requirements by 1", well, you're gonna laugh, but I have no idea. I thought it would affect vendor mats, but it doesn't. It also doesn't decrease primalweave or glamer cloth, so, I have no clue of what it does... If it decreased vendor mats by one, it would at least make the crafting dailies doable, but nope.
 
"Provides more precise control over socket charge" means that instead of going in leaps of 4 every time, as you increase or decrease charge, you'll go in leaps of 3 (with 1 talent of those), 2 (with two talents), or 1 (with all three talents). If without talents you would go 1-5-9-13, with one talent you'll go 1-4-7-10-13, with two talents you will go 1-3-5-7-9-11-13 and with three talents spent in this style of talent you'll get 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13. The amount of jumping with each click of the right or left arrow in the slot charge becomes smaller with the more talents there.
 
"Decrease penalty for mismatching a socket by 5%" means that if you place crit, a red colored stat, in a green life slot, your penalty to the charge cost of that slot would be 5% lower.
 
Is "Increase maximum overcharge by 3%" the same as "Increase maximum failure rate by 2.5%."? No, it would not be the same at all, they are completely different. Maximum overcharge means you can put more energy in your item before it hits the cap. Maximum fail rate means your item has a higher chance to fail at the cap.
 
Am I right to think that "Decrease failure rate by 10%." means that if I make an item and reach, let's say, 40% failure rate, it means I'll only have 30% chance to fail so long as my maximum overcharge is 40% or higher? And if my maximum overcharge is at like 35%, 40% failure rate - 10% from the talent won't allow me to make the item? Eh, ah, hum, no... All items have a maximum cap of overcharge.This is controlled by the "increase maximum overcharge by 3%" set of talents. Imagine two different crafters. One has all three failure rate talents, and no overcharge talents, and the other has none of both of those talents. The 2nd crafter will reach the cap and have a (let's say hypothetically) 50% failure rate at +8% overcharge. The first crafter will reach the cap at 35% failure rate with the exact same 8% overcharge. The items will be equal, only the chance to fail will differ. "Maximum overcharge" is not related to fail chance, it is related to how much energy you can pump into an item. Did I make myself clear? Your interpretation of things was a bit far from how things actually are, so I'd like to make sure you understood...
			
				
	Edited October 11, 2015 by Timiniel	
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Hey there. There was another post in this very same forum about this yesterday... You could have gotten the answers looking there. Anyway, here goes:
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The socket type is for crafting sockets, nothing has anything to do with runes. If you have the talent that prevents fire and you are crafting an item that has 3 slots, you will get to roll between the five other alternatives three times. It's just that simple. You will never get a red-colored slot.
 
As to the rest, I am not sure I'll be able to explain it to you... Yes, max overcharge affects how much energy you can add, and reduce failure rate just reduces the chance to fail without adding more energy, but not in the way you said it. This part below:
 
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if I make an item and reach, let's say, 40% failure rate, it means I'll only have 30% chance to fail so long as my maximum overcharge is 40% or higher
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I understand the 3% maximum overcharge talent.
 
What I'm trying to understand right now is the 10% reduced fail chance and 2.5% maximum fail chance.
 
I get that 10% reduced fail chance is 10% of current chance to fail. So a 39% fail chance would become 35% (39 - 3.9 rounder = 35 or 36 if rounded up).
 
The formula for failure chance on a schematic show this:
 
I want to know how the 2.5% maximum fail chance apply to this formula or what it apply to. I get that the reduced fail chance apply to the Chance to Fail that shows up in big red like on the picture below.
I did some testing and...
 
 
When I increase 1 of the slot to 25% overcharge, it gives me 13% chance to fail
 
 
At 50% overcharge I get 26% which is just another 13%.
So technically raising it to 75% overcharge should put me at 39% but wouldn't work because my Current Max Chance to Fail is 37% according to the formula.
 
 
And I was right to think that apparently.
 
This is what I don't understand here.
You are telling me that fail chance has nothing to do with how much I can overcharge... BUT!
I went ahead and decided to try it myself even tho it may mean I'll have to pay the overly pricey talent reset because of it and guess what?
Increasing max chance to fail by 2.5% did increase the amount I could overcharge...
I overcharged to 75% and this is the result with the 2.5% max chance to fail talent compared to the above picture without talent.
 
 
But this left me even more confused as the Base Max Chance to Fail went from 42% to 55% and Current Max Chance to Fail from 37% to 49%... Where is the 2.5% in this?
And since I don't want to pay crafting vouchers like crazy to test, how do I know if the 10% less chance to fail doesn't actually allow me to overcharge more when I see that the 2.5% max chance to fail allows me to overcharge more?
 
Don't blame me for not understanding here because this whole thing doesn't make any sense at all.
 
P.S. The basic material talent reduction does reduce the vendor mats required for patterns. Since I don't want to prevent elements for the sockets, I took that talent.
 
P.S.2. Also, now I'm confused about what the Signature 15% overcharge bonus does exactly... great.
			
				
	Edited October 12, 2015 by snaplemouton	
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			Ok, I think I'm not helping.I'll let someone else try to explain it better. Sorry. As to the reducing vendor mats, are you sure? With zero talents I had to purchase the same mats as with two talents. Granted I tested this on day 1, but I saw nothing talking a fix or change. Are you sure of this?	
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Are you sure of this?
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			I still have to pay for mine. Could the tailor talent be bugged?	
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i just tested with some crafting vouchers lying around
 
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Increase Socket Charge range by 12.5%
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I would like to add that these tests were done with no other talents involved except those I mentioned and with signature bonus and 3200 cosmic points. When picking multiple talents, do be aware that the talents may not look like it is doing what I described because a lot of mechanics are working together.
 
For example, if you pick precise control over socket charge, the increase in failure rate will be lower because you are adding a smaller amount.  However, the fail rate should be near equal to the fail rate you would have gotten without the talent when you reach the same value of increase.
i.e.  one tick of increase in a stat increases by 3 points and fail rate goes to 19%
       with precise control talent, each stat point increase should be about 6.33%.  3 stat increase should be around 18-19%.
 
 i.e.  one tick of increase in a stat increases by 3 points and fail rate goes to 19%
        with 3 decrease failure rate by 10%, one tick of increase in a stat increases by 3 points and fail rate goes to 13% (rounded down)
        with precise control and 3 decrease failure, each point increase should increase fail rate by 4.33%.   3 stat increase should be around 12-13%.
 
NOTE:
I have chosen multiple precision controls (3) and it got to the point where attempting to increase a stat value is smaller than 1.  You wouldn't see the numbers change in the craft window detail unless you increase it twice. Fail rate still goes up regardless of stat increasing or not.
 
Also Note that a tick of increase in a stat is the arrow button you hit once to increase the stat.  
A stat point increase is attempting to raise the actual stat by 1 point (the number goes up on the right side of the window by 1 point)
			
				
	Edited October 13, 2015 by Nhon	
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The Bonus Reduction in Overcharge Risk is due to signature bonus and cosmic rewards as far as I know.  Signature gives -15% and 3200 cosmic points give you -10% for a total of -25%.  You will see this number on the following line after Base Max Chance to Fail.
 
Getting 10% less fail will automatically apply to the Base Max Chance to Fail.  If your base was  30% before the talent, you will start with 27% instead.
 
Lemme give you an example on how 10% less fail works.
 
Without talent:
Base Max Chance to Fail = 30%
Overcharge Reduction = -25%
Current Max Chance to Fail = 22%
1 tick increase in a stat = 19% in fail rate
 
With 10% reduction talents:
Base Max Chance to Fail = 27%
Overcharge Reduction = -25%
Current Max Chance to Fail = 20%
1 tick increase in a stat = 17% in fail rate
 
With 3 10% reduction talents:
Base Max Chance to Fail = 21%
Overcharge Reduction = -25%
Current Max Chance to Fail = 15%
1 tick increase in a stat = 13% in fail rate
 
Same stat Increase but lower fail rate
 
You can get a similar result by doing this:
Signature Bonus
3200 Cosmic Points
Start with no talents.
Novice craft using a Novice's Capstone Power Core
Check before and after you place some points in 10% less fail ( do math =/ )
			
				
	Edited October 13, 2015 by Nhon	
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You're a savior man!
 
Thank you so much for explaining so clearly.	
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Glad you got someone to explain it in a clearer way. 
 
On unrelated news, want to laugh? Reset my talents, reapplied, and they are working now. Which means that everyone else that is complaining about these is also affected by the same bug. YEY -_- ...
 
Thanks for showing me this! You were extremely helpful.
 
EDIT: And guess what, it also seems to apply to the transducers of master crafting. Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh. I've been spending this since launch needlessly...
			
				
	Edited October 13, 2015 by Timiniel	
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EDIT: And guess what, it also seems to apply to the transducers of master crafting. Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh. I've been spending this since launch needlessly...
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			Good info here, been waiting to see what everyone made of the talents that aren't particularly clear!
			
				
	Edited November 11, 2015 by Charge	
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