Report 90

Report #90
Skillset: Ninjakari Skill: Illgathoru
 Org: Paladins Status: Completed Nov 2008
Furies' Decision:
This was approved and implemented
Problem: Illgathoru provides what is a 3800+ Wounds required SWING only
blademaster affliction (who can't even power swing) for what is 3 momentum, 2
with power, grapple ender. It isn't even reflective of the other wounds in the
same ability (all "heavy" warrior wounds). It also provides two forms of passive
instakill that require regeneration, via the Trans skill.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Remove Disembowel from Illgathoru, replace vomit in
 Ninombhi with OpenGut (this is the low end momentum
 modifier, numb/snaprib/etc). Add VomitBlood to the
 Gut yank for Illgathoru. VomitBlood is a "heavy"
 warrior wound, in line with the skill cost/other
 modifiers.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Raise the ka cost of Illgathoru to 750 and have it
 drop two momentum levels. It delivers a regen-based
 time instakill that cannot be cured by allheale and
 was recently buffed to shorter time, thus justifying
 the cost. You also gain one momentum on the grapple
 itself.
Player Comments:
---[Shuyin on 11/21 @ 18:45 writes]:
I agree with this. I believe it's gotten to the point that many (most?)
ninjakari rely on this to make their quick kills as opposed to making an effort
to build momentum to use their trans ability.
---[Gregori on 11/21 @ 18:47 writes]:
I support this. Get rid of disembowel from Ninjakari, It is all you ever see for
a reason and being disembowled within the first couple attacks and then a few
times over during a fight is just ridiculous.
---[Xiel on 11/21 @ 23:28 writes]:
I, as well, support this proposal to Illgathoru due to the above mentioned
reasonings not only talked about, but witnessed personally.
---[Lanfayr on 11/22 @ 03:42 writes]:
Not sure what ninombhi has to do with this, anyway, vomit blood is hardly
comparable to sliced tendons and severed nerves. I agree though that illgathoru
could use a nerf, there -is- no reason to use ughathalogg over it, but
ughathalogg is also a pretty sucky insta especially compared to the tahtetso
one, however that's not what this is about so. What if illgathoru only caused
disembowel at level 4+ momentum, and did ruptured gut or heavy bleeding before
that? There are already skills that cause a different aff on higher momentum
levels so it should be possible.
---[Desitrus on 11/22 @ 11:11 writes]:
Regardless of "how effective" you think these warrior afflictions are, they are
given at these wounding levels for warriors, why exactly is it that you feel
critical wounds should be given at a much easier state to accomplish? The reason
Ninombhi was brought into this was so that you wouldn't have a duplicate
affliction, I passed an affliction on par with wounding afflictions at the tier
that Ninumbhi has and brought vomitblood up to the "heavy" wounds tier. There's
simply no need for two regen based instakills. If your trans skill is so bad,
why wasn't it envoyed over akogh? Certainly the trans skill would be more
important were it extremely lacking?
---[Lanfayr on 11/23 @ 19:31 writes]:
Okay, first, ninombhi causes "vomiting", not "vomiting blood". Second, you can't
directly compare warrior and monk wounds. Warriors can lunge to cause a lot of
wounds fast, monks get boost which isn't very practical at low momentum and
cause barely any wounds, instead they use momentum to determine affs and are
much easier to slow down or even stop at the start than warriors. Also, to get
off an illgathoru requires two actions, and if you stall the monk at the right
time you can just writhe and get zero affs from it, and should you happen to get
disemboweled, you have 12 seconds of time to cure it which should be plenty
unless you were locked to begin with.
---[Shuyin on 11/23 @ 21:41 writes]:
Illgathoru's disembowel can just be swapped with vomiting blood from BC,
ninombhi doesn't need replacing in that regard. Getting off an illgathoru is
pretty easy given steelgrip, and I believe given the changes to grapple, it's
not particularly hard to get balance back to yank before the enemy writhes off.
I still can't see how you can reasonably defend an instakill that takes 2 moves
to start (can't say that I've pulled off a burstorgans in 2 moves, and I'm
fairly artied up/demi), takes 12 seconds to heal, requires a regeneration to gut
cure (of which ninjas have 3, which leads to easy stacking) that's delayed and
isn't stopped by allheale anymore. No class should ever get 2 timed instakills
that can be started at near the same time
---[Ceren on 11/24 @ 04:49 writes]:
I support all of this except for the vomitblood part because vomitblood is a
totally useless affliction, heavy wounds or not. Just make it give rupturegut
(also a heavy wounds affliction), and if what I've heard about regeneration
cures curing in alphabetical order is correct, burstorgans will always cure
before it
---[Desitrus on 11/24 @ 20:47 writes]:
I ask again, why exactly does it need to be a regen cure? Keep in mind that
Illgathrou can be performed at 0 momentum. Yank is 75, Illgathoru 175. Ninshi +
Raze is 200. Both of these fit at m0 and m1. All you need is a proned opponent
or someone who isn't guarding gut, and from being someone who has to deal with
stance/parry 99% of the time the default position is legs/head. Other modifiers
such as steelgrip just add icing to the cake, but the magnitude of the wounds on
this particular modifier are ridiculous compared to other specs. The comparable
"heavy/critical" afflictions come at 450, 475, 500 ka costs for everyone else.
---[Shuyin on 11/25 @ 04:02 writes]:
Rupture gut is the ashlamkh gut affliction I believe as well, tbh you're running
out of warrior affs to the gut, heh.
---[Ceren on 11/25 @ 11:32 writes]:
You're right, it's given by ashlamkh. What about 100 extra bleeding + opengut
then? For those who don't know, opengut is a medium wound aff cured by marjoram
that does minor bleed/prone on a tick
---[Desitrus on 11/25 @ 18:20 writes]:
Good with Ceren's choice
---[Lanfayr on 11/25 @ 18:44 writes]:
I'm fine with it as well.
---[Shuyin on 11/25 @ 19:38 writes]:
I'm cool with that