123449-so-whats-next

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I suppose this is mainly for community support folks to pass upwards, but we've gotten a little precursor to PvP with a start to gearing equalization (which, IMO was a great maneuver -- certainly made even a non-PvP oriented person feel more invited into that side of the game and it's been fun).  There have been hints on more PvP tweaks, costuming/dye/skins changes,  Hints of this that and the other.
 
Are we due for some more concrete announcements on where the ship is headed?  Not asking for patch notes but something a little more solid than hints here and there would be pretty awesome as something to look forward to.	
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			I'll agree with this. I believe we're halfway through this drop's life cycle, so hopefully meaty stuff will surface over the next couple of weeks. :)	
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			It'd be nice, but concrete information usually is.	
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f2p.
 
a new small instance with 1 boss.
 
more gear grind and reason to farm the old content.
 
pvp balance a bit and a new 1 room arena.
 
and a huge cash shop.	
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f2p.
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from the hints they gave us: 
drop 5 the pvp "fix" including same faction bgs (hope that warplots are too into that)
 
new boss in a box Augmentors20 - https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php…
 
New Adventure, Contracts, Itemization Changes -http://www.twitch.tv/wildstar/b/613726541
 
Halon Ring - http://www.reddit.com/…/datamined_halon_ring_next_new_zone…/
 
Levian Bay Veteran - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50whDdism4M
 
More Details: Eldan Forge and Contracts - https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php…
 
Contracts Interface - http://www.reddit.com/…/datamining_if_anyone_wants_to_spec…/
 
Guild Housing & Communities - https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php…
 
and speculating contracts will be something like putting price to the head of someone (would be cool i got a long list of dommies for that)
 
 	
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and speculating contracts will be something like putting price to the head of someone (would be cool i got a long list of dommies for that)
 
 
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f2p.
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drop 5 the pvp "fix" including same faction bgs (hope that warplots are too into that)
 
 
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I've been worried that guild housing is shelved. That post is from August, it's been six months and I don't think they've said anything else on the topic.
 
I had a metaplot planned and everything. :(  Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll drop a bomb for D5.	
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Warplots are already same faction. You can face Exile vs. Exile or Dommie vs Dommie 
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I've been worried that guild housing is shelved. That post is from August, it's been six months and I don't think they've said anything else on the topic.
 
I had a metaplot planned and everything. :(  Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll drop a bomb for D5.
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Will you please stop with that?  It's getting really old, and it's not funny anymore.
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Bro. Do you even Warhound?
 
F2P will save PVP and Warhound server OR inb4 Ultra-Mega Server merge.  And here's the plan that was laid out. 
 
http://wildstar-online.com/en/news/2015-01-30-future-plans-for-pvp-in-wildstar/
 
Note. They never mentioned EVERYTHING will be implemented by drop 5. Classic Carbino Move. 
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Bro. Do you even Warhound?
 
F2P will save PVP and Warhound server OR inb4 Ultra-Mega Server merge.  And here's the plan that was laid out. 
 
http://wildstar-online.com/en/news/2015-01-30-future-plans-for-pvp-in-wildstar/
 
Note. They never mentioned EVERYTHING will be implemented by drop 5. Classic Carbino Move. 
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Blizzard would have called drop 4 “ expansion “ and charged you 60 bucks	
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it will happen.
in 2016.
they just took their initial plans and exponentially delayed them to cover 3 years instead of 1 year. hence the 3 months cadence instead of 1 month.
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I am curious about the future of Wildstar as well. It seems like Carbine's been awfully silent regarding the direction of the game lately. Perhaps it's just me though.
 
 
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Blizzard would have called drop 4 “ expansion “ and charged you 60 bucks
 
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We can agree to disagree …..but enough of retro games talk, lets move on	
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Blizzard would have called drop 4 “ expansion “ and charged you 60 bucks
 
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f2p.
 
a new small instance with 1 boss.
 
more gear grind and reason to farm the old content.
 
pvp balance a bit and a new 1 room arena.
 
and a huge cash shop.
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f2p.
 
and a huge cash shop.
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f2p.
 
a new small instance with 1 boss.
 
more gear grind and reason to farm the old content.
 
pvp balance a bit and a new 1 room arena.
 
and a huge cash shop.
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Get out. The game is already B2P (CREDD) anyway. If you can't make CREDD to pay for you're sub you're not even playing the damn game because it's so easy to do. All I ever see you do on this forum is make doomsaying posts and post garbage about how the game should be F2P with a cash shop. It's clear you only want to destroy this game and care nothing for it.
 
 
Anyway. Obviously I'd like to see a teaser of the next Raid, if not the Raid itself.
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Not many people outside of this game know this. They think you have to buy the game and pay a monthly sub fee. So, it's hard to convince my friends to come and play. It's hard to convince someone who never heard or played Wildstar to even buy it, let alone try to earn in game money even if everyone in the game know its easy to earn plat. 
 
This is why a F2P option is a justifiable business model. It gives people a chance to try this MMO.
 
When was the last time you have seen good Wildstar news like upcoming drops on a major news outlet or big youtubers? 
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Not many people outside of this game know this. They think you have to buy the game and pay a monthly sub fee. So, it's hard to convince my friends to come and play. It's hard to convince someone who never heard or played Wildstar to even buy it, let alone try to earn in game money even if everyone in the game know its easy to earn plat. 
 
This is why a F2P option is a justifiable business model. It gives people a chance to try this MMO.
 
When was the last time you have seen good Wildstar news like upcoming drops on a major news outlet or big youtubers? 
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I'll agree with this. I believe we're halfway through this drop's life cycle, so hopefully meaty stuff will surface over the next couple of weeks. :)
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*whistling non-chala... ok, excitedly*
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*whistling non-chala... ok, excitedly*
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			i imagine that timetravel want to tell us all the changes and when are they coming like this...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77pnVFLkUjM	
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If Carbine's smart they release some proper news about the new drop somewhere this week, because it would be perfect for people who are using the trial now.
 
What better way to make them stay after their trial than by showing them some concrete things of what is to come in the next drop?	
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And it takes very little to disprove that. Which is how I was able to convince 5 people from my department at work to give WS a shot. By casually mentioning how the game is already B2P. Since they had no idea about how easy it is to circumvent paying a monthly sub. Word of mouth is a powerful tool.
 
And the sheer vast majority of MMO's, regardless of their state, don't have good news on major news outlets. Nor do they regularly have things posted about them from "big youtubers". So unfortunately, that's not really as strong a talking point as you wish it was.
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			I would imagine that Carbine and NCSoft are looking closely at ESO and how the change in business model works (or doesn't work) for them. Granted, ESO is based on an existing IP, and is being released for consoles as well, so much of how it does will be based on that, but TSW also switched to a similar business model.  	
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And it takes very little to disprove that. Which is how I was able to convince 5 people from my department at work to give WS a shot. By casually mentioning how the game is already B2P. Since they had no idea about how easy it is to circumvent paying a monthly sub. Word of mouth is a powerful tool.
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			if i play a few hours (2-3) only having getting gold in mind can get like 4-5 plat a day, if i play for fun can get 2p daily at lvl 50 so if you play for fun at the end of the month you will have enough for a credd, but if you are like me you will blow up that in costumes dyes and mounts	
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if i play a few hours (2-3) only having getting gold in mind can get like 4-5 plat a day, if i play for fun can get 2p daily at lvl 50 so if you play for fun at the end of the month you will have enough for a credd
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Get out. The game is already B2P (CREDD) anyway.
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http://wildstar-online.com/en/news/2015-01-30-future-plans-for-pvp-in-wildstar/
 
Note. They never mentioned EVERYTHING will be implemented by drop 5. Classic Carbino Move. 
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How much time does it take to get enough plat to buy CREDD? I keep hearing people say "it's easy" but then they say things like "you can get enough plat in a few days if you get Gold on 5-10 Shiphands a day and do all the dailies" which might not sound so easy for some.  For someone new to the game, how much time do you suggest they'll need to put in to make enough plat to buy CREDD?
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*whistling non-chala... ok, excitedly*
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*whistling non-chala... ok, excitedly*
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Please convince my friends who are dedicated PVP players that Wildstar is in a superb state right now. They can easily browse through the PVP section of this forum and see how many complaints there are. Why would they even try to buy a broken PVP game? 
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thinking that no business model switch is being considered at the moment is being foolish.
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If it's foolish, then it's foolish for me to keep playing the game. And not just me, but many others. So for the moment, you should be happy we are foolish.
 
But what I think is really foolish is making absolute statements about a game going F2P in a thread that might be read by people considering the game, many of whom may decide not to sub if they think F2P is a real possibility. By contrast, no one who wants to come only if its F2P will read your statement and decide to suddenly sub, so all you are doing by making the comment is discouraging current players and driving away potential ones.
 
You are free to say whatever you'd like, but when you call those of us who want the game to stay with its current model "foolish", you invite such criticism.
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Getting gold on Vet Shiphands is stupidly easy. Since you don't even need a tank or heals for them. And dailies are a breeze, even in greens. And if the latter is too hard for some reason, then with one person, you can still knock out Crimson Isle and Northern Wastes with relative ease.
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Please convince my friends who are dedicated PVP players that Wildstar is in a superb state right now. They can easily browse through the PVP section of this forum and see how many complaints there are. Why would they even try to buy a broken PVP game? 
 
Have you heard of Warhound. Guess not. No one is on it. 
 
Oh did you know. That's there is only one guild left in the whole server. Keeper of the Keg on the dom side.
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Nope- there are times I enjoy feeding the trolls. :)
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and the day (in a few months) that it will happen, you will forget to tell me "yeah, you told me so".
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i am not trolling.
i am being negative, maybe.
but not trolling.
 
what you said Jeff is right, it would probably be better to say the game is so thriving that people should come in an sub!
but the truth is (AND I AM NOT TROLLING) that i genuinely believe the game business model should be f2p or b2p, actually probably like swtor, free until endgame.
 
there are still not enough players in wildstar for the group content to be played regularly and it creates problem and players are leaving when they hit the "nobody to play with" brick wall.
 
and... i also genuinely think that anybody who think Carbine is not thinking about a business model switch at the moment is being foolish.
am I not trolling btw.
and the day (in a few months) that it will happen, you will forget to tell me "yeah, you told me so".
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On the PvE side, it seems to me I'm finding plenty of players to do the group content regularly.
 
I understand you genuinely believe the business model should be F2P- but again, that would be a no-go for many people like myself. If you managed to convince me that Carbine really was planning to go F2P, what would happen is I would just quit the game. So let's hope you aren't successful. I won't forget to tell you "yeah you told me so". I just wouldn't be here any more.
 
I'm not saying the game won't go F2P. I'm not saying they are not considering it. Honestly, who can say. I AM saying that I'm continuing to believe that it won't and they aren't, and it's good for you that I do because otherwise it would be one more person not playing the game. Well, me, my wife, and a lots of other people who said they would leave if it went F2P.
 
My objection is that you stated it like it's a fact in response to a post that wasn't about F2P at all. I don't even know what you want? To be right? To be able to say "I told you so" down the road? It will be a hollow victory, because being right will mean many of us who love this game and have invested a great amount of time and energy into it over the last year won't be here to hear it. But at least you can throw yourself a victory parade about being right.
 
Look, I get it. If Carbine needs to go F2P to save the game, they'll do it. I'll be sad, but I'll understand. But right now, every time I read a prediction that it is going F2P, I'm reading "You should really quit investing your time and energy into this game". You should be glad I think you're wrong.
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wake up guys :\
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Wake up to your conclusion?
 
You should know that most predictions do not come true. Including from experts, which you are not, none of us are.
 
 
 
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If the game goes F2P, I go. Who would buy cash shop crap if the people currently willing to spend money on the game leave?
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I like this game too much to stop playing if it goes F2P....and even if. Whats the problem? There would still be sub/creed for sure. And if you had it everything would be same. Only difference would be that once it runs out you can still play but with some limitations.
At least thats how I imagine it  :)  . And cash shop could be cosmetic stuff only. New mounts, new costumes...It can be done right.
It sounds like everyones experience with F2P games are some obscure korean P2W MMOs  :D .
 
But I for one like current business model. Hell I bought creed already and Im still on first free month :D (But only because some mad man on Jabbit sent me 15p for unknown reason...aint complaining thou! cheers mate,  wherever you are B) )	
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we all have our ideas on how this ship should sail.
i don't diss yours. but i'm obviously trying to convince you that you are wrong and that i am right :D
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Avatar is the only person in this thread making any sense and making any non-vested emotional observations.
 
If you think, truly, that there aren't meetings happening every day about a possible business model transition, well...
 
If you think that Drop 4 did much of anything to improve the visibility of this game, even with the new 10 day free trial, beyond your anecdotal stories about one or two relatives or workmates who "tried it out," WEELL....
 
Almost anything you can still find being published about this game anywhere is barely viewed or commented on, and when it is, it's usually something along the lines of "Dead Game Stay Dead." The changes to this game and its business model have really only just begun, and if you can't even "fathom" that happening, WEELLLLL...
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Forums =/= game.  If they can't put in the effort to use the free trial and look for themselves — instead of listening to the parroting doomsayers that lurk here daily — then they're not going to stick around anyway.
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Avatar is the only person in this thread making any sense and making any non-vested emotional observations.
 
If you think, truly, that there aren't meetings happening every day about a possible business model transition, well...
 
If you think that Drop 4 did much of anything to improve the visibility of this game, even with the new 10 day free trial, beyond your anecdotal stories about one or two relatives or workmates who "tried it out," WEELL....
 
Almost anything you can still find being published about this game anywhere is barely viewed or commented on, and when it is, it's usually something along the lines of "Dead Game Stay Dead." The changes to this game and its business model have really only just begun, and if you can't even "fathom" that happening, WEELLLLL...	
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Yea, because F2P is going to be the big advertising windfall that saves Wildstar. Because F2P is super well respected by gamers.
 
WELLLLL.....
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Who cares about respect? You and your narrow definition of "gamers" doesn't mean anything in the face of literally millions playing League, or millions upon millions playing Puzzle and Dragons. Respect is not part of the equation.
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Unfortunately, it's not the gamers who runs a game. It doesn't take an expert to realize that working in a gaming industry is a difficult and a cut-throat business. If your game doesn't make money, then it gets shut down. Simple as that. That's why many of us "loyal" players don't want to see it going to F2P, but at the same time it's painfully hard to not notice the struggles this game is going through. F2P maybe the last resort hail-mary-business-model option. 
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Do you understand the differences between a MOBA and a themepark MMO like Wildstar? Your example is terrible.
 
Wildstar is a new IP with a rough reputation from launch. It is not Dungeons and Dragons, nor will it ever be.
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Oh, so you want a relevant example? How about the 2 million plus that still play SWTOR? You know, the one that did the "big f2p advertising windfall that gamers don't respect"? That turned out pretty bad for them I guess. Oh, wait.
 
And, how does it being a new IP with a rough start excuse it in any way? Doesn't that mean it's even MORE likely to shift its business model?
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Being a new IP with a rough start means that it's that much harder to actually get people to come back and commit to a F2P model, which, at the least, has a ton of contention around it. SWTOR had a decent launch, decent reviews, a massive legacy, and diehard fans before the game was even made. They also catered to casual players much more than Wildstar has. They also did not have a built-in CREDD system. Much like RIFT, SWTOR was better primed to go F2P and stood to make more from it.
 
It's not that you or anyone else who want/believe F2P is coming are absolutely wrong. It's that your only real reason for being here is to prove you're right, and for some, to *cupcake* off the vocal players who loathe F2P.
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Being a new IP with a rough start means that it's that much harder to actually get people to come back and commit to a F2P model, which, at the least, has a ton of contention around it. SWTOR had a decent launch, decent reviews, a massive legacy, and diehard fans before the game was even made. They also catered to casual players much more than Wildstar has. They also did not have a built-in CREDD system. Much like RIFT, SWTOR was better primed to go F2P and stood to make more from it.
 
It's not that you or anyone else who want/believe F2P is coming are absolutely wrong. It's that your only real reason for being here is to prove you're right, and for some, to *cupcake* off the vocal players who loathe F2P.
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I don't believe we'll be doing any kind of convincing ourselves. They have data. They have hundreds upon hundreds of exhaustive spreadsheets showing who is paying for what, to what extent CREDD is sustaining the active playerbase, etc.
 
Put it this way, if a good chunk of the population is living off the CREDD purchased by the very few, how is that any different from the Whales in F2P games subsidizing the play experience for everyone else? If that's how it is anyway, why wouldn't they remove the paywall and let CREDD be used for account services or special currency?	
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because we need to convince the players that loath F2P that it would be better for the game so that we can then convince the devs. :D
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all i want for wildstar is MORE PLAYERS.
 
now... i am trying to figure out the best way for that to happen in a relatively short amount of time.
 
you are open to give suggestions.	
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Hypocrisy works in both way. To say, that things are improving and its all going to be better and all good on drop 5, is simply sugar coating that current state of things. It's better to put it out there what you are currently feeling on the forums, than a bunch of safe-guard wishy washy words. 
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all i want for wildstar is MORE PLAYERS.
 
now... i am trying to figure out the best way for that to happen in a relatively short amount of time.
 
you are open to give suggestions.
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all i want for wildstar is MORE PLAYERS.
 
now... i am trying to figure out the best way for that to happen in a relatively short amount of time.
 
you are open to give suggestions.
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You may as well accept that b2p/f2p is coming and be done with it. This game is absolutely most definitely not profitable at the moment and will go the way of every other unprofitable mmo if things continue as they are (mass layoffs, skeleton crew etc..)
 
Only two AAA mmo's (afaik) can get away with the £9 sub fee and that is WoW and FF:ARR; in the case of ARR they had to re-release the game in a modern mmo worthy state for people to notice it. WildStar has lost too much momentum, the only way this game will ever be popular again is if:
 
Everything is fixed; PvE and PvP is fun and quickly accessible (instead of frustrating and restrictive) for the majority of players and
 
-They do a b2p announcement; no shame here, ESO was far more popular and they noticed it was the best option for the game.
 
or
 
-They go the way of SE and close down the game; develop it until its a behemoth of mmo goodness, get rid of what doesn't work and add more of what did.
 
or
 
-They add an expansion with oodles of new content, features, new class(es) etc.. (this would require the game to be successful enough to warrant an expansion in the first place)
 
Out of the above 3 options the first one is definitely the most likely. One thing is certain though, just fixing things, adding a trickle of content and begging old players to come back and give them a second chance isn't going to cut it. I don't think there has ever been a single mmo that that tactic has worked for.	
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Just keep in mind that it's contentious to talk about the game like it's your dying grandmother, contentious to suggest F2P for any sub game, and contentious to assert that the game needs F2P (or even any kind of sub model change).
 
You can obviously have your opinion but this is not as simple as a topic on how to draw more players. It's how to draw more players at the expense of others. F2P could be the best thing in the end but it's going to come with a lot of quits and a lot of animosity between community members (as we see in these threads).
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Just keep in mind that it's contentious to talk about the game like it's your dying grandmother, contentious to suggest F2P for any sub game, and contentious to assert that the game needs F2P (or even any kind of sub model change).
 
You can obviously have your opinion but this is not as simple as a topic on how to draw more players. It's how to draw more players at the expense of others. F2P could be the best thing in the end but it's going to come with a lot of quits and a lot of animosity between community members (as we see in these threads).
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Transitions are hard. Changes takes time to get use to, if we cross that bridge.
 
If you have any interesting ideas outside of F2P option, please we are all open to suggestions. 
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Wow. This went to all the usual places. Glad Timetravel is excited, that has meant good things in the past :-) 
 
As for whether or not you are trolling Avatar, my personal feeling is that you have stated your opinion. You are clearly not swaying opinion, the people who theoretically you are trying to convince have no responsibility for making any sort of decision. Thus it is a futile exercise and distracts from any productive discussion. Thus, at the point where you are deliberately derailing conversations, yes, you are trolling. 
 
As author of this post, I believe this has gone completely off the rails and ask forum managers to lock it down.	
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Wow. This went to all the usual places. Glad Timetravel is excited, that has meant good things in the past :-)
 
As for whether or not you are trolling Avatar, my personal feeling is that you have stated your opinion. You are clearly not swaying opinion, the people who theoretically you are trying to convince have no responsibility for making any sort of decision. Thus it is a futile exercise and distracts from any productive discussion. Thus, at the point where you are deliberately derailing conversations, yes, you are trolling.
 
As author of this post, I believe this has gone completely off the rails and ask forum managers to lock it down.
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then we need to find another solution to the population problem...
 
no, 2 warplots matches a week are not "healthy".
no, unknown queue times for adventure in prime time are not "healthy".
no, low level no group content happening is not "healthy".
no, 15 minutes for a pvp pop at lvl50 is not "healthy".
 
maybe f2p is not the answer.. but we definitely NEED an answer.
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Transitions are hard. Changes takes time to get use to, if we cross that bridge.
 
If you have any interesting ideas outside of F2P option, please we are all open to suggestions. 
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If the game is good enough it will swim— if it's a turd it will sink.
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the idea is trying to think for the greater good of the game.
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Avatar is the only person in this thread making any sense and making any non-vested emotional observations.
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because we need to convince the players that loath F2P that it would be better for the game so that we can then convince the devs. :D
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all i want for wildstar is MORE PLAYERS.
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maybe f2p is not the answer.. but we definitely NEED an answer.
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It might be better for the game. It wouldn't be better *for me*.
 
More power to them if they can compete in the F2P market and make more money with WS. But they'll be doing it without me. So if you manage to convince me that F2P is inevitable, all you'll be accomplishing is convincing me to unsub and quit the game.
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It might be better for the game. It wouldn't be better *for me*.
 
More power to them if they can compete in the F2P market and make more money with WS. But they'll be doing it without me. So if you manage to convince me that F2P is inevitable, all you'll be accomplishing is convincing me to unsub and quit the game.
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This is what I would agree with. We can't all have our cake so I'm OK with leaving if I have to, there are plenty of games I can enjoy. But I don't see anything good coming from people who straight-up insist "X will happen".
 
Admittedly though, this topic with WS is starting to get silly. This game's sub system is already more complicated than most, which means even if they did go F2P/B2P, it would be a unique hybrid that probably none of us could predict. So why bother arguing about it using assumptions drawn from other games, each of which has its own unique draw/title/history/resources/plan?
 
Sometimes I wish topics like this were reduced to polls instead of threads. I started my own F2P thread awhile back (it was actually anti-F2P) and that was just as useless as the threads I've seen since. A poll would at least show us a simpler breakdown of the forum community's preferences.
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If you liked the game and wanted to support the development team then you would support them regardless of what they decide to do with the game.
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			If the game is going F2P, why would they have taken so long and spent so much time coming up with a 10 day free trial?  If the plan currently is to send it to F2P, why spend all this time setting up a 10 day free trial system and page?  It would be a complete waste of money.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If you liked the game and wanted to support the development team then you would support them regardless of what they decide to do with the game.
 
F2p isn't so bad, it worked wonders for Rift, TF2, SWTOR; basically any game that needs a lot of players to function but couldn't get them initially for some reason or another.
----
			The ultimate WS Troll would be them bringing an instance with the acronym of F2P. Then they can be like "We're pleased to announced, Freedom to People, or F2P, our newest dungeon!"	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I am not going to keep playing a game I don't like, though. Who does that?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The ultimate WS Troll would be them bringing an instance with the acronym of F2P. Then they can be like "We're pleased to announced, Freedom to People, or F2P, our newest dungeon!"
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The game isn't really b2p/f2p worthy at the moment, group finder is still fcuked, PvP is knackered. I could go on.
 
IMO the best thing they can do at the moment is try and get old players to gove them a second chance and when they feel that the game is ready for it, convert he pay model. If you're going to get a mass influx of players coming into your game and you want them to stay then everything needs to be perfect; otherwise they'll just leave again.
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I have to word this carefully, because I don't want to come across as too dismissive or self-assured. But IMO, SWTOR is now a turd. I don't think F2P did wonders for the game, I think it did wonders for the people who are getting paid through it. 
 
Which is still good in one sense, because that includes employees and designers.  But it's no reason for me to support the pay model that helped turn the clear and simple sub system into a mess and gave birth to their lousy cash shop.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The entire presupposed point behind B2P and F2P is that it's a silver bullet for population issues.  If they wanted to wait until they had more population, they'd just keep the sub model, since they'd actually get paid for that population.
 
I'm not saying it will never happen (who knows), but their recent moves suggest that, in fact, F2P isn't on the agenda.  They're moving forward as if they will be a subscription game for the foreseeable future.  If the game was really preparing to go F2P, then they wouldn't have gone through the trouble of making this.
 
They're not going to wait until they have enough people to pump up their queues across the board and then, oddly, make sure they don't get paid for having them.  Nothing they've done recently suggests in any way that they're planning right now to go F2P.
 
Sorry if anyone really wanted it, but it looks like they're going to try to make the sub work.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I played SWTOR when it released and after a few months I knew exactly where the game was going. F2P was the best thing that happened to that game by a long shot, I had a ton of fun playing 4 players with my house mates.(people that wouldn't have even considered playing the game if it had a paywall.) Some of them even bought the crates so that system did a grea job of getting people to pay for a game that they never would have normally. Furthermore, the people that were paying for the game before (the endgame subbers) still are because of its hybrid model; it's not difficult to see why SWTORs profits skyrocketed when the game went f2p and now the game is getting plenty of new content. (I believe it just got its second expansion)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It wouldn't make any difference on the way the game plays; chances are it would actually make the game better because more money = more development = more features = more fun.
 
You need to let go of the crazy notion that once the game goes f2p/b2p, it's going to turn into a completely different game.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I also played at release, and left before F2P, and did not return for F2P. And never will after seeing how they decided to work it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I also played at release, and left before F2P, and did not return for F2P. And never will after seeing how they decided to work it. Obnoxious.
 
So basically, your anecdote is no better than mine and, again, only convinces me that the game made more money. Well I'm sorry but a wealthy turd is not worth my admiration or time. :P
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I also played at release, and left before F2P, and did not return for F2P. And never will after seeing how they decided to work it. Obnoxious.
 
So basically, your anecdote is no better than mine and, again, only convinces me that the game made more money. Well I'm sorry but a wealthy turd is not worth my admiration or time. :P
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It's true. And, according to you, foolish for still playing this game that is obviously going F2P.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You don't need a free trial if the game is F2P.  That's the entire point of F2P, that you can play for free.  Why would a game need a free trial if it's going to be free to play?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
the minority sometimes gets the shaft... :\
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
the free trial page could very be the introduction page for "play free now".
ironically, before the page went live for real there was leaked versions of it that had "play free now' instead of the "start the free trial".
 
i wish i had saved it somewhere to show you.
 
anyway, the implementation of this page is as good for a trial than a potential f2p switch.
 
don't get me wrong. i like wildstar as a p2p (i am subbed since launch after all, and NOT paying my with credd bought with in game money).
but i would take anything that could drastically improve the population status in a relatively short amount of time.
if such solution exist.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
your point of view is valid.
unfortunately, the numbers are not on your side as there are more player and more revenue since they made the switch.
 
the minority sometimes gets the shaft... :\
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
never said that.
i am happy paying my sub and happy enjoying wildstar since release.
 
but i see the numbers (i have no proof to give you here, only what my pinky tells me) and i am certain that it is a bit foolish not believing that they are talking about plans for a business model switch.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You don't need a free trial if the game is F2P.  That's the entire point of F2P, that you can play for free.  Why would a game need a free trial if it's going to be free to play?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
never said that.
i am happy paying my sub and happy enjoying wildstar since release.
 
but i see the numbers (i have no proof to give you here, only what my pinky tells me) and i am certain that it is a bit foolish not believing that they are talking about plans for a business model switch.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You said it was the in the plan for this year to go F2P, and when questioned said it's foolish not to believe they are talking about.
 
If I'm not planning to play if it goes F2P, then it's foolish for me to keep playing it (according to your pinky).
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
There has not been a themepark mmo in history that has gone from loads of players, to none and back to loads again without changing the paymodel
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The problem here is more your irrational prejudice against f2p games as opposed to an actual problem with the model itself.
 
I've played plenty of games that were p2p and then went f2p, the only difference each time is that they had a cash shop and a ton more players. I'm not going to lie here, just about everyone would prefer this game to stay as p2p but it just isn't going to happen. (unless they want it to shut down) There has not been a themepark mmo in history that has gone from loads of players, to none and back to loads again without changing the paymodel (cept maybe ARR, but thats a different matter entirely)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
lets imagine that the f2p transition is not ready yet (cash shop not "filled" with goodies and/or not totally decided on the exact model since it could be hybrid) they'd rather just create the system and use it for a free trial at the moment and hope to get some box sale/subs in the process.
some money is better than no money.
 
i am simply saying that the system and web page that they currently implemented is not a move away from f2p as it could be used for f2p also.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
They already have dropped the box fee.  It's now 20 dollars with a free month.  Essentially, that means that initial payment costs 5 dollars.  The box fee has already been essentially eliminated, a la EVE.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And when they switch to B2P it will just be 20 dollars for the game with unlimited game-time. Maybe in combination with some Elite/VIP service for people who do want to keep paying a sub and/or use CREDD.
 
Also, Wildstar's current competition is every MMO, not just the sub-based ones. Switching business models doesn't mean switching competitions. Most people play just one, maybe two, MMO's at the same time. People who actively play GW2  or ToR are less likely to play Wildstar at the same time currently, so it already is competition.
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{| class="blockquote"
 
...and figure that it either swims as a sub game or dies.
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{| class="blockquote"
that could be very true. now, the question is: are they currently swimming ?
-if yes, then all good! we're all happy!
-if no, how much more breath they still have?
 
we could argue if its either "yes" or "no", but without actual numbers neither of us would win ever.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Agreed! But you are the one who came in to a thread that wasn't about F2P and made it about that.
 
I personally have a lot of hope that the answer is "Yes".
----
			This thread should get back on-topic. This thread is supposed to be a "What's on the horizon for Wildstar in terms of new content?" and not another "Wildstar should be F2P/B2P by now" debate.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Wow. This went to all the usual places. Glad Timetravel is excited, that has meant good things in the past :-)
 
As for whether or not you are trolling Avatar, my personal feeling is that you have stated your opinion. You are clearly not swaying opinion, the people who theoretically you are trying to convince have no responsibility for making any sort of decision. Thus it is a futile exercise and distracts from any productive discussion. Thus, at the point where you are deliberately derailing conversations, yes, you are trolling.
 
As author of this post, I believe this has gone completely off the rails and ask forum managers to lock it down.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
that could be very true. now, the question is: are they currently swimming ?
-if yes, then all good! we're all happy!
-if no, how much more breath they still have?
 
we could argue if its either "yes" or "no", but without actual numbers neither of us would win ever.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
No, Wildstar's competitors do not include F2P games.  That's the entire crux of the argument.  The crux is that there's a contingent of players who will, as you say, NOT play Wildstar while it's a sub game.  And you're already seeing a lot of people who are saying they won't play it if it goes F2P.  Those are two very different markets.  I certainly haven't stuck around in a F2P game for more than a few weeks and wouldn't stick around here.  So Wildstar is, essentially, competing directly with other sub games, not with F2P games.  If they weren't, the debate's meaningless, since payment model wouldn't matter.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
http://massivelyop.net/2015/03/11/wildstar-begins-10-day-free-trial-program/
 
follow that link. comments will flow in. and see what the general consensus seems to be.
then talk to your pinky in private and ask him what he thinks.
----
			
Thing is they're not really wrong.(those against F2P) noting their experiences and perspective on the games anging as they transition.
 
Having been through games that do switch to F2P for whatever reason it is clearly noticeable how the priorities change toward said development and the method by which they approach maintaining the F2P viability going forward. As such the game can and does change to varying degrees that may or may not displease people who were in the previous model. The change is neither good nor bad, but it is a change in approach and depending on what aspects of the game changes it can be bad for said player(s) on an individual basis.
 
egardls though, this thread has veered off-topic intended. SO....
 
*AHEM*
 
It would be nice to hear a bit of what is going on, but I understand the stance too that you don't want to give too much information as then it becomes some awkward form of "written in stone" and this has caught many developers(and even Carbine at times) with their pants down. However I do feel as though hints and insight into proposed development/eveloper interests are nice for now and as we get closer to or know that something is actually slated to happen we get more information.
 
I just hope Carbine enver goes down the "hardcore" joke(while funny, had some rather unintended consequences) route again in communication...	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Thing is they're not really wrong.(those against F2P) noting their experiences and perspective on the games anging as they transition.
 
Having been through games that do switch to F2P for whatever reason it is clearly noticeable how the priorities change toward said development and the method by which they approach maintaining the F2P viability going forward. As such the game can and does change to varying degrees that may or may not displease people who were in the previous model. The change is neither good nor bad, but it is a change in approach and depending on what aspects of the game changes it can be bad for said player(s) on an individual basis.
 
egardls though, this thread has veered off-topic intended. SO....
 
*AHEM*
 
It would be nice to hear a bit of what is going on, but I understand the stance too that you don't want to give too much information as then it becomes some awkward form of "written in stone" and this has caught many developers(and even Carbine at times) with their pants down. However I do feel as though hints and insight into proposed development/eveloper interests are nice for now and as we get closer to or know that something is actually slated to happen we get more information.
 
I just hope Carbine enver goes down the "hardcore" joke(while funny, had some rather unintended consequences) route again in communication...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
My assessment of SWTOR's F2P system and consequent desire not to engage is irrational prejudice? My time spent playing Neverwinter and personal experience with the frequently ugly community (as well as the horrendous cash shop that is totally P2W), that's also irrational prejudice? Two years in DOTA being exposed to the community, that's meaningless too I bet.
 
Yea, completely irrational to base your expectations on past experiences and informed assessment of particulars. Mmmmmboy
 
Anyway, I may not like F2P, and I won't support it. That's my personal decision but I make no insinuations that it applies to everyone or is related to anything objective. You, however, are insisting that something that has not yet come to be, will absolutely come to be. And your only support for this is conjecture.
 
What's the word for that? Oh yea, irrational.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
the mmo population is aging.
ESPECIALLY the sub based mmo population.
 
so,
add "sub"(older population) and "hardcore"(need a lot of free time) together and it equals the biggest problem the game have (or had).
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I believe you may have misunderstood the latter part of my post. When I mentioned "hardcore" this refers back to the topic itself in terms of communicating the future of Wildstar where during beta and promotional videos/streams/etc...Carbine jokingly had comments and tags like #hardcore and while this was funny to those of us that understood it was a joke it unfortunately gave the wrong impression that Wildstar is hardcore only when it's not. Even to this day that misunderstanding lingers quite heavily on Wildstar's reputation for people until convinced otherwise. By this I am saying that I just hope that Carbine when and if they do promotional and or informative communication with current and potential players they don't shoot themselves in the foot.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
They will not play Wildstar as a sub game because there are, in their opinion, F2P/B2P games that are better. Making the sub not worth it for Wildstar. It's not like the sub is the only reason that they don't play Wildstar, making it a totally different market. It's that the sub is just one of many other reasons why they don't play Wildstar, and removing that hurdle might make it more attractive towards that huge crowd of potential players.
 
It's the same market, the sub is just another hurdle that makes Wildstar less competitive in that market for a big number of players. If Wildstar was a better game (for them), or had a better reputation, those GW2 and ToR player would still have played Wildstar even though it has a sub.
----
			
allright Vic.
 
lets swim or sink with subs.
 
that is what you want and you won't be convinced otherwise.
I hope for all our sake that it is swimming and making good profit so that we will see more epic content!
 
 
cheers mate!	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
But changing the payment model at the root, that's not a magic wand.  They could very easily still end up not helping their total portfolio by doing it, and Wildstar could still become a black hole for revenue.  Right now, they're seeing population rebound simply because Drop 3, Drop 4, and the news for the upcoming Drop 5 is getting a far more positive reception and they're slowly altering public perception.  NCSoft has a lot more to think about and, strategically, Wildstar could be exactly what they need to give them product diversity.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I havent had those problems with any f2p games I've played. For TF2, the players behavior was dependant on which server you played. I found Rift to be no different than usual and the same for SW:TOR. Planetside 2 has almost no problems other than the occasional cheater so yeah I'm not really seeing any logic in the whole f2p = bad quality game/community. The game with the worst community I've played is FF14 (elitists and other unhelpful a-holes) so these experiences are completely player dependant as opposed to model dependant.
 
Again you can judge the f2p community as rotten players, I don't care. All I care is that this game makes enough to not die and a change in the pay model is the best way to accomplish that.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Careful how you appraise population growth. Since drop 3, population on Warhound been slowly sucked dry. Each drop we hope it would be the miracle patch that would bring Wildstar into a happy place in all our hearts, but reality strikes and we end up twiddling our thumbs, hoping for an optimistic outlook into the future of Wildstar. 
 
Next drop is gonna get better guys! Yea we can do it! Go go carbino. Plz?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Careful how you appraise population growth. Since drop 3, population on Warhound been slowly sucked dry. Each drop we hope it would be the miracle patch that would bring Wildstar into a happy place in all our hearts, but reality strikes and we end up twiddling our thumbs, hoping for an optimistic outlook into the future of Wildstar. 
 
Next drop is gonna get better guys! Yea we can do it! Go go carbino. Plz?
----
			Unless you have such a rich inner fantasy life to think that you are secretly talking to NCSoft and Carbine accountants, this discussion has zero merit.Not only has it messed up this thread but it poisons EVERY SINGLE THREAD IT TOUCHES. I truly don't care how passionate anyone is at this point just please shut the cupcake up.Mods please just lock this thread or just outright delete it. It's worthless.
			
				
	Edited March 11, 2015 by BusterCasey	
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{| class="blockquote"
Population seems to be growing overall, but clearly population is a problem on the PvP servers.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
yea but isn't that a population shift rather than loss? I'm sure some are quitting for good but there must be a bunch more server transferring.
 
While that sucks for players on the PVP realms, it doesn't correlate well to Carbine losing money/the game going under.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It may not correlate to the financial situation of Wildstar. At the same time, it really does not showcase to the new/returning players that this game is still alive and people are playing it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
that is ridiculous, drop 4 added content sure, but not nearly the size and amount of Blizzards  WoW expansions. If you must hate on WoW at least stick to facts.
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			Sorry, Remi. I didn't realize we'd gone off the range. :P	
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{| class="blockquote"
population issue is a killer even on the "only server left".
 
that is how dire the situation is! people DID the trial. they left. and complained that "well there was nothing happening".
and f my life they were probably right :(
 
i have 2 new guys in my guild that just came back with the trial. they are on the adventure step of the attunement.
they were like "guys, please help us we've been sitting in queue for over 3 hours and siege of tempest is not happening".
we were nice and face rolled the adventure in our DS gear for them.
not the greatest of experience for them. but hey...
 
and they were like "yeah, can't wait to be raiding, feel like its almost impossible to get there unless we get carried by you guys".
 
true story.
 
and we are talking lvl 50 vet adventure here..
it is getting such a hassle to just pug and do the content that people basically are like "screw that, please carry me into raids directly and i'll equip the GA drop, please, pretty please!"
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
i totally understood.
whatever if "hardcore" was a marketing term only or a real fact that endgame was heavily raid focused doesn't matter.
we have to agree that putting "hardcore" and "subs" in the same sentence was not the best of ideas since hardcore(younger players with more free time) and subs(older player that have income and stability) don't go hand in hand.
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{| class="blockquote"
Unless you have such a rich inner fantasy life to think that you are secretly talking to NCSoft and Carbine accountants, this discussion has zero merit.
 
Not only has it messed up this thread but it poisons EVERY SINGLE THREAD IT TOUCHES. I truly don't care how passionate anyone is at this point just please shut the cupcake up.
 
Mods please just lock this thread or just outright delete it. It's worthless.
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{| class="blockquote"
true fact nobody talks abt,  is how small the dev team really is @ carb now- content releases will take alot longer and on top of all the changes the game has had on ptr- this just shows how slow production really is with this game.they had sold me on the fact we were gonna get new content each month-thats now seems like a fairytale... they are just milking it to show logevity on the game. its how business works.
 
the changes are good. but i wouldnt consider them 'drops' neither does carbine. they seem more like patch updates, and that itself is taking waaay to long. they have major catching up todo.
 
it would be nice to actually see a solid content drop-expansion- whathave you,  in this game. paying a monthly sub for maintnance work (patches)  and some things (veterans)  thrown in- it reminds me of Mythic entertaiment with warhammer online sub model. and we know how all that turned out.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
population issue is a killer even on the "only server left".
 
that is how dire the situation is! people DID the trial. they left. and complained that "well there was nothing happening".
and f my life they were probably right :(
 
i have 2 new guys in my guild that just came back with the trial. they are on the adventure step of the attunement.
they were like "guys, please help us we've been sitting in queue for over 3 hours and siege of tempest is not happening".
we were nice and face rolled the adventure in our DS gear for them.
not the greatest of experience for them. but hey...
 
and they were like "yeah, can't wait to be raiding, feel like its almost impossible to get there unless we get carried by you guys".
 
true story.
 
and we are talking lvl 50 vet adventure here..
it is getting such a hassle to just pug and do the content that people basically are like "screw that, please carry me into raids directly and i'll equip the GA drop, please, pretty please!"
----
			
People are still pretty gleeful about the developers "making the game less hardcore", even though I think the game's current state seems consistent with the original vision.
 
I mean, why put Adventures and Shiphands in the game at all if the intent was for it to be hardocre?
 
I hope they continue to expand upon what they did with veteran shiphands.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
People are still pretty gleeful about the developers "making the game less hardcore", even though I think the game's current state seems consistent with the original vision.
 
I mean, why put Adventures and Shiphands in the game at all if the intent was for it to be hardocre?
 
I hope they continue to expand upon what they did with veteran shiphands.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah, but the dungeon queues seem to be popping just fine.
 
I'm not sure the lack of adventure pops is due to population as much as it is that there is a lot better content that has better reward in the game.
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