116670-rewards-for-helping-new-players

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TLDR version: Could there be rewards to encourage solo pugging and helping new players clear dungeons?
 
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So I do fair amount of pugging and I enjoy it (along side a lot of guild runs I also do). Like many who PUG, I lament the long queue times (even when I queue as tank). I hadn't realized that of the 30 or so people in my guild, I'm maybe the only one who pugs dungeons. Which to me is strange, because everyone is always worried that pugs will be a challenge, but on the whole I've found pugs to be pretty easy going these days. Everyone knows what to do and we blow through the content pretty fast.
 
Unless there's a new player. Then it goes slow and people quit. Which drives new players into guild only runs, resulting in the pugging community staying small.
 
The other night there was a spellslinger LFG in Thayd. I guess he'd been in queue for an hour or so waiting for a pug. I told him I'd go, I inspected his gear, and he was not runed and sitting at 2300 AP. I told him I wouldn't queue with him at that gear level, but would offer tips. He was glad for the help and we got him runed and up to 2500 AP. I gave him a build and a rotation. I got on my tanking alt and we queued. We got a fast pop (yay tanking alt!) I told the group it was this player's first time, we manage to wipe on Bladewind once, and the top dps quit. We pugged another and got all the way to Stormtalon, but the overall group just wasn't good enough to get Stormtalon down (we got super close). To be fair to the new player, he did great, but Stormtalon takes a few pulls to learn the fight, and he wasn't the only one struggling. In fact, one of the players admitted that he normally goes with much higher DPS and didn't die as often because the phases were shorter (that is, he was carried). That he didn't know there was a cleave to avoid illustrated his point ("Did I grab agro?" "No- you stood in front of the boss!"). We gave him some tips and he improved as well, but I just ran out of time and could make any more attempts.
 
So last night I put together a guild run and we got this guy through- he actually performed really well and we got the dungeon down. It wasn't a carry because it was mostly an alt run, but it was still easier than the pug. And now I'm thinking, this guy will never do another pug. I mean, maybe he will, but already he's experienced that guild runs are going to be more tolerant and friendly. Which I know is how some people think the game should be played, but pugging can be fun if people give it a chance.
 
At any rate, if that first player who quit after one wipe had stayed, there's a good chance we'd have gotten Stormtalon down (the player who replaced him kept standing in Stormtalon's cleave), but I get why he left. There's really no reason to take a risk on teaching new players the fights when the reward is so slim. But if you had a special reward for groups that get people their first dungeon clear, maybe you'd see more groups forming around trying to help new players out, and maybe some new players might have better first-dungeon experiences. So maybe 4x xp (elder gems) for anyone in a group who gets a player his first dungeon clear (obtainable for each first dungeon that player gets everyone wouldn't just run Stormtalon).
 
Or maybe you could offer more xp (elder gems) the more people in the group who queue individually? That is, if everyone queues solo then you get 3x the xp, any partial groups you get 1.5x, and 1x if it's a fully queued group. This would help encourage people to pug.
 
Maybe terrible ideas- but I feel like the game could benefit from motivating players to pug and help new players.	
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I personally like the idea of rewards for helping new players :)
 
An example is the mentor / mentee quest given out in ArcheAge, a daily for people to run dungeons together. 	
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A few games have incentives for PUGing which I like. Some of which offer a random piece of loot from the relative dungeon and a chunk of experience.
 
I haven't played ArcheAge so not sure how that works, but sounds like if it were translated it it'd be where a level 50 would run a normal , which I think should be encouraged. I've found that people who take awhile to adjust to veterans or feel like they hit a major skill wall never touched the normal versions of the dungeons to get a grasp on the setup. For calm easy going time I tend to queue up as tank for normals and take the time to explain things like "interrupt this mob cause it does X", "when you see telegraph blah do blah, do that thing", etc...
 
I'm finding that there are a good handful that especially currently under 50 and even current 50s never touched even their respective level 15 adventure, which is unfortunate.
 
It would be nice to have PUG incentive in addition to general dailies.	
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I haven't played ArcheAge so not sure how that works
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How about instituting a system that rewards histories of completions without quitting?  Have something called Reliability or some other stat.  If you're in a PUG, every completion of a dungeon raises the level, and every one you quit lowers it.  Tune the stat in such a way that it's better to PUG with high Reliability than get gold with low reliability since Reliability might offer personal rolls on loot, that is you can roll on loot for yourself more often, maybe with exclusive rewards, or maybe you just get higher chances to win loot rolls.
 
Just a spitballed idea, if anyone has any ideas on rewards for a high Reliability, feel free to add them.  That way, if you quit a dungeon once in a while (as intended) it's not a big deal.  Quit two in a few days (or even two in a row), and you lose your bonuses and have to start rebuilding.	
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			I think this is a great idea.  Personally, I think better odds of good loot dropping would be a great incentive that would get more experienced players to help new players through dungeons.	
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			Everyhting that enhance cooperation and grouping is a thumb up for the Captain.	
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This is a wonderful thread and you are all wonderful people.
I suggest a superhero themed costume set (spandex, tights, cape, underwear on the outside, the works) "The Magnificent Mentor! " for helping a preposterous amount of lowbies. :3
 
The chest crest could be the wildstar logo upside down.	
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How about instituting a system that rewards histories of completions without quitting?  Have something called Reliability or some other stat.  If you're in a PUG, every completion of a dungeon raises the level, and every one you quit lowers it.  Tune the stat in such a way that it's better to PUG with high Reliability than get gold with low reliability since Reliability might offer personal rolls on loot, that is you can roll on loot for yourself more often, maybe with exclusive rewards, or maybe you just get higher chances to win loot rolls.
 
Just a spitballed idea, if anyone has any ideas on rewards for a high Reliability, feel free to add them.  That way, if you quit a dungeon once in a while (as intended) it's not a big deal.  Quit two in a few days (or even two in a row), and you lose your bonuses and have to start rebuilding.
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To hitch off this idea...
 
what if said "reliability" gain raised chance for the epics to drop since you'd have gained high enough by going there repeatedly as well.
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I would be fine with a non-vet-dungeon daily even if it just rewarded a nice chunk of experience toward my weekly Elder Gem cap.
 
Make the dungeon daily worth approximately 30% of the weekly cap (roughly equivalent to running the dailies in Crimson Badlands and Northern Wastes each once) so that the time invested is rewarded sufficiently, and you'll see plenty of people running lowbie dungeons.
 
Lots of people run dailies even after hitting the EG cap just for the plat. IMO, you wouldn't have to add extra money to the reward.	
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			This is indeed a nice idea! 	
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			I encourage my guild members to help out new members (we've picked up a bunch of newcomers to the game with the change to megaservers). This would certainly help to motivate them. :D	
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I encourage my guild members to help out new members (we've picked up a bunch of newcomers to the game with the change to megaservers). This would certainly help to motivate them. :D
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I actually ran a Hyrcest last night for the first time in months- I brought my level 50 dungeon geared tank in and it was still fun. I was only doing it to run my fiance through on her medic, but it felt good.
 
The problem with getting 50s to run normal mode dungeons is that the dps gear absolutely trivializes them. I didn't find that to be true on my tank, but I've misqueued a few times on my level 50 dps slinger and doing STL 20 is way too easy :(	
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I would be fine with a non-vet-dungeon daily even if it just rewarded a nice chunk of experience toward my weekly Elder Gem cap.
 
Make the dungeon daily worth approximately 30% of the weekly cap (roughly equivalent to running the dailies in Crimson Badlands and Northern Wastes each once) so that the time invested is rewarded sufficiently, and you'll see plenty of people running lowbie dungeons.
 
Lots of people run dailies even after hitting the EG cap just for the plat. IMO, you wouldn't have to add extra money to the reward.
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I'm too burned out from original attunement (without exploiting), attuning guild members, guilds disbanding/merging/transferring, attuning new guild members etc etc...to teach dungeons again. I'm not alone. It seems like raiding guilds are so burnt out and/or unmotivated they can't put in any more time to attune/gear/teach a constant stream of new players. Just before all my friends quit we got a bit of spark back and did 3/4 gold dungeons, but now I can't step foot in one.
 
I would hate to be a new player now, it must be absolute hell to try and rep grind adventures and attune via LFD/PuG.	
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I'm too burned out from original attunement (without exploiting), attuning guild members, guilds disbanding/merging/transferring, attuning new guild members etc etc...to teach dungeons again. I'm not alone. It seems like raiding guilds are so burnt out and/or unmotivated they can't put in any more time to attune/gear/teach a constant stream of new players. Just before all my friends quit we got a bit of spark back and did 3/4 gold dungeons, but now I can't step foot in one.
 
I would hate to be a new player now, it must be absolute hell to try and rep grind adventures and attune via LFD/PuG.
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Were you on an Engie tank? I was just touring some housing plots when some guy was asking in /z for people to do Hycrest for his lowbie friends, so I was like eh why not? Our healer was a medic (male character though!)  But it was like 3am Sunday morning, so I assumed they are Oceanics.
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I LOVE this idea!
 
And second the opinion that you should get a super hero costume :D	
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Would you do it if you got more benefits for doing so (like more elder gems so you don't have to do as many dailies or whatever)?
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Hmm no, but I guess I'll be doing them again to grind Flux for rune slots so I can upgrade my GA drops to surpass crafted blues. One would hope I won't have to grind daily zones as well as grind dungeons just to hit EP cap :(. Raids don't really give much EP, even with the 1000's of trash mobs.
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Here's what FFXIV:ARR does:
 
1.  A HUGE one-time XP and money bonus once each day per player for signing up for "random dungeon roulette".  You don't get the bonus unless you finish the dungeon. Sometimes I queue up and get tossed into the very first dungeon (Sastasha) and since characters are level synced, most of my abilities are disabled. "Blah," I think. "No combos and no cool off-the-GCD abilities. BORING!...oh well, I can easily put up with that for MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF XP."  B)
 
2. First time player in any PuG dungeon?  More XP, cash, and other currencies (seals, tomestones, etc) for the rest of the party upon completion only. I was in a PuG last week where we got the "There's a new player! More goodies all around!" notice at the start of the dungeon.  Lost the healer on the first boss after a wipe -- player was in over his/her head and apparently realized it.  I started to explain the fight again to the DPS that I thought was the new player and got told "No, our newbie left and took the bonus :-(  "  Yep. A PuG group where someone was sad the newbie dropped.  Imagine that.  :o Oh this bonus also applies I think with premades, so you get rewarded for helping your new guildies through the dungeon too, though you don't get the roulette bonus with a premade.
 
3. Player commendation system. On finishing the dungeon, if you did well and were friendly, other players can drop a commendation on you. Large amounts of commendations translate into special titles and vanity items (and a certain amount of bragging rights about how much the rest of the community appreciates you.)  You can't commend people you queue up with so you can't farm these with your buddies -- it has to be randoms.  If you queue as healer or tank and end up in an otherwise all-buddy group, the only one they can commend is you -- finish the dungeon with them and rake in the commendations.   ^_^
 
A while ago on Reddit someone posted a gripe about how "No one was helpful" in Wildstar or other MMOs.  I pointed out that people are helpful, if the cost to them isn't too steep or the reward is proportionate.  These games cost players both money and time to play -- people naturally prioritize doing their own thing over helping others out.  Appeals to "the good of the community" fall flat against the idea that you only have two hours to play tonight and you want to make that time count.  So compensating players for helping out newer players just makes sense.  It's not bribery so much as wages earned. Game company:  "We know you gave up time you could have been using to get more XP on your own to help newer players. That benefits our game and our game community and thus benefits us as a company. We'll make it up to you with an XP bonus to cover what you lost in time and a little extra!" Average player: "Sure, I'm up for that! Bring on the noobs!"
 
This goes along with the trend Blizzard started by offering extra goodies to tanks and healers for Pugging. (Which is also something FFXIV:ARR does. Tanks and healers can really make bank in the dungeon roulette when all these bonuses stack.)  If there's a player behavior you want to encourage, you don't scold players for not doing it -- you incentivize it.  That is, you pay for the player behavior with the currency the players want -- XP, game gold, titles, vanity items. Make good behavior in the player's best interest and good behavior is largely what you'll get.  	
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			Maytree, great comment- I didn't know that other MMOs had such systems. These kinds of things would help WS so much, I think.	
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Maytree, great comment- I didn't know that other MMOs had such systems. These kinds of things would help WS so much, I think.
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Maytree, great comment- I didn't know that other MMOs had such systems. These kinds of things would help WS so much, I think.
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The problem with that is people will take advantage for personal gain, in this case easy gem gathering.
 
Yes, it will reduce the queue time for non-vets, and new players will actually get to "complete" the lowbie instance; but they will get carried through the instance without even knowing WTF is going on. Predictably, their level 50 teammates don't talk to them... because let's face it - not here to socialize or teach, just here to collect easy elder gems. :lol:
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The problem with getting 50s to run normal mode dungeons is that the dps gear absolutely trivializes them. I didn't find that to be true on my tank, but I've misqueued a few times on my level 50 dps slinger and doing STL 20 is way too easy :(
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3.  This didn't always work that well in practice.  The idea was solid, but it did intrinsically favor tanks and healers over DPS who might have been more helpful and likeable. 
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As far as helping new players, we're trying over on Entity.  Response so far has been less than overwhelming though :(
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Forcing anything on players is an area to tread extremely lightly in as a designer.  Remember, nothing is keeping them in the game -- if they feel "forced" too much they just walk.  Plus, punishment is not nearly as good at improving behavior as rewards are -- a truckload of psych studies bears this out.   Better to offer juicy rewards for mentoring than to force people to do it. That turns a new player into an opportunity to benefit and not something you need in order to avoid a negative. 
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I've found that to be only partially true.  While tanks and healers will average more commendations, I've pulled a lot of commends as DPS as well and handed out my fair share too.  The tank also gets to give a commend and if the healer is  sloppy  or inattentive the top DPS will usually get it (I've done that as a tank for sure.) This is particularly true if the dungeon has fights that need a DPS to pay attention to a mechanic and the DPS is on the ball.  You can also grab a DPS commend from the healer if the tank is sloppy and you throw yourself on any loose aggro headed for the healer and stun or bind it -- healers notice that!    It's not true to say you can't get a commend for DPS play.  
 
One other cool thing that happens -- and a possible area for tweaking the system -- is when there's a particularly good run and the tank goes "Damn, I wish I had commends for all of you, but I don't."  That's definitely happened.  It might be cool to have more than one commend to hand out if a PuG group really comes together, but on the other hand that might make it the norm to get a commend and cause not getting one to be a source of bad feeling.  
 
 
Forcing anything on players is an area to tread extremely lightly in as a designer.  Remember, nothing is keeping them in the game -- if they feel "forced" too much they just walk.  Plus, punishment is not nearly as good at improving behavior as rewards are -- a truckload of psych studies bears this out.   Better to offer juicy rewards for mentoring than to force people to do it. That turns a new player into an opportunity to benefit and not something you need in order to avoid a negative. 
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1.  Personally, I think giving extra rewards for pugging as opposed to premade kind of punishes people for running in a premade
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We're talking about rewarding players for something they should be doing anyway (helping lowbie players). The player's self-interest is inherent in the OP's suggestion and anything that gives a reward.
 
In this case, the negative side might be minimized if the daily quest itself forces higher-level characters to mentor. When you're at-level, the opportunity to simply carry lowbie teammates would be much reduced, and communication and teaching would be necessary to a larger extent.
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I would LOVE the chance to level down and help out lowbies for fun and profit. The sad truth is, on my main if I go as DPS, I can pretty much carry a group without teaching them a thing. I don't know if it has something to do with how powerful ability points and amps are, or the way gear scales, but I absolutely wreck level 20 instances.
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Hm, in FFXIV the gear is leveled down too. The dungeons aren't trivialized by gear differentials as that would defeat the purpose. Does Wildstar not do this?  :huh:
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I'm not sure what WS does. I just know that I'm stronger than I ought to be :)
 
Even when I was a level 35 running STL 20 I was killing it.
 
In fact, we once had a semi-guild run where we accidentally queued for STL 20 and we felt bad for the two dps we just decided to run it. Then the two dps dropped for some reason and we couldnt' disband (no idea why). We all went dps and just three dpsd the entire thing. So yeah, the mentoring down doesn't work quite as well as it should.
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I don't think I would be out of line to suggest that, ah, perhaps this wasn't intended to be this way and it's an oversight or bug.  (Weird, I know, to suggest that this could happen in Wildstar... <_< )
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I'm not sure what WS does. I just know that I'm stronger than I ought to be :)
 
Even when I was a level 35 running STL 20 I was killing it.
 
In fact, we once had a semi-guild run where we accidentally queued for STL 20 and we felt bad for the two dps we just decided to run it. Then the two dps dropped for some reason and we couldnt' disband (no idea why). We all went dps and just three dpsd the entire thing. So yeah, the mentoring down doesn't work quite as well as it should.
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			I'd like to see a better system for pugging than the current lfg. Rewards for helping are good, but it's much easier for me to help out a player who is asking for a group in zone chat than it is hitting the lfg button and not knowing what I'm going to get. I don't mind lfg for when I'm bored, but I wish more people would put together chat pugs (or we had a better system for signing up for lfg). 	
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Gear scales down, but you still have extra amps/tiers/ability slots. If you didn't scale down at all, tanks would have no hope in hell of holding aggro, whereas my alt tank can just barely hold off a geared 50.
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Unfortunately I get the impression that Carbine, or at least certain devs at Carbine, are fundamentally against the idea of PuGs for five-man content to begin with 
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I haven't gotten that impression, but I haven't been around for forever either (just heard about WS in the final days of beta).
 
However, Timetravel recently said that running dungeons was a STRONG indicator of player retention, so I think if they recognize that, then they have to recognize the power of pugs to keep their game going strong. That they are adding in a training dungeon and daily quests for the dungeons (in addition to one time quests to complete the dungeons) maeks it sound like they are trying to motivate people to run these. Does that mean pugs? Well, not necessarily, but there are plenty of people who are used to pugging stuff, so I think Carbine probably can see a lot of value in trying to capture those folks.
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When you're leveled down, you are leveled down.  Across the board.  Sounds like Wildstar needs this.
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They always said that they were not tuning their dungeons around lfg pugs that refused to communicate. I think this is perfectly fair. This is why I'd like to see people think more about how they might pug without just clicking on the group finder button. This is why pergo created a lfm channel. I'd much rather see people motivated to pug in alternate ways than to have the group finder super incentivized. It's nice that it's there, but if I had a choice, I'd pug through a circle or chat.
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			You can still incentivize helping new players without forcing it to be through lfg. Or they could create a better system for pugging where you can sign up and people can flag as new/mentor and be given rewards based on that. 	
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They always said that they were not tuning their dungeons around lfg pugs that refused to communicate. I think this is perfectly fair. This is why I'd like to see people think more about how they might pug without just clicking on the group finder button. This is why pergo created a lfm channel. I'd much rather see people motivated to pug in alternate ways than to have the group finder super incentivized. It's nice that it's there, but if I had a choice, I'd pug through a circle or chat.
 
Edit: in terms of retention of new players too, I think that lfg is not a great incentive to stay and join an mmo community
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You can still incentivize helping new players without forcing it to be through lfg. Or they could create a better system for pugging where you can sign up and people can flag as new/mentor and be given rewards based on that. 
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I've definitely used circles for pugging, but group finder is good too and the default way a lot of people are going to play the game. The reason I left SWTOR early on was because there was no group finder.
 
I think that LFG actually is a good incentive to stay and join an mmo community. It keeps you in the game and allows you to meet people you'd never have met otherwise. I definitely have people on my friend's list that I met while pugging. For some of us introverts, it's the easiest way to connect with people.
 
But for the record, when I want to run a dungeon it goes like this:
 
On TS: "Anyone want to run something"?
If no interest -> /g Anyone need anything for attunment or want to run a vet dungeon?
If no interest -> /c1 (Small Guild Association) Anyone need anything for attunment or want to run a vet dungeon?
If no interest -> LFG Tool.
 
So pugging isn't really my primary way to run dungeons, but I still find it to be a lot of fun. It does lack in the shenanigans of a group formed in TS though. You know, like blinding the dps with mushrooms in SC :)
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I don't want to see lfg removed. I like lfg as well. But I don't feel that it is the best tool to be dishing out rewards in for helping new players, and I'm seeing a lot of suggestions tied to giving rewards for joining the random queue. I've also had groups that were willing to explain fights and help new players out. Like I said before, having an alternate group finding system that lets you sign up in different aspects would, in my opinion, be more useful to put in and incentivize that way.
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I think a lot of people have been trained (probably by WoW) to rely on the queue as the primary method of finding groups if they're not in a guild.  In addition, many people have been trained to expect that the group is about completing the content, and not necessarily any more than that.  It's the same mentality that leads to people in many games joining groups to complete quests, never saying a word, and then leaving as soon as the quest is completed.
 
I predate queues and much prefer organizing out of chat, even when it's people I don't know.  Because for me, the social aspect is an important part of grouping.
 
Personally, I miss the old-style LFG/LFM tools, where you could register yourself as LFG with a note about what you wanted.  It seemed like the happier medium, because it still requires players to take some initative to reach out and form groups with others.  It's not a panacea by any means, however.
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I think a lot of people have been trained (probably by WoW) to rely on the queue as the primary method of finding groups if they're not in a guild.  In addition, many people have been trained to expect that the group is about completing the content, and not necessarily any more than that.  It's the same mentality that leads to people in many games joining groups to complete quests, never saying a word, and then leaving as soon as the quest is completed.
 
I predate queues and much prefer organizing out of chat, even when it's people I don't know.  Because for me, the social aspect is an important part of grouping.
 
Personally, I miss the old-style LFG/LFM tools, where you could register yourself as LFG with a note about what you wanted.  It seemed like the happier medium, because it still requires players to take some initative to reach out and form groups with others.  It's not a panacea by any means, however.	
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To be fair, this game IS kind of structured around completing content in that the dungeons are really only worth it if you complete them all the way.
 
My problem with organizing out of chat is that it can get constrained by zone or whoever you have access to. That was my issue with SWTOR- standing around on a ship doing nothing but spamming "LFG" wasn't fun.
 
But I could go for a less automatic LFG tool. One that is more about group organization than just plugging in warm bodies.	
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			To clarify, I don't want to see lfg go. I'd just like to see the addition of a different kind of group organization tool which would be tied into rewards for helping new players. Kind of like what Nephele has been working on with her forum dungeon sign ups, but in game. 	
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My problem with organizing out of chat is that it can get constrained by zone or whoever you have access to. That was my issue with SWTOR- standing around on a ship doing nothing but spamming "LFG" wasn't fun.
 
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To clarify, I don't want to see lfg go. I'd just like to see the addition of a different kind of group organization tool which would be tied into rewards for helping new players. Kind of like what Nephele has been working on with her forum dungeon sign ups, but in game. 
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One thing Wildstar does have going for it here is that it supports global, custom chat channels.  Every server should probably set up a custom LFG channel just to have one, now that I think about it.
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Yeah, I know FFXIV:ARR gets put down sometimes for being slow and plodding, but they do a lot of things right.  Especially the extra loot for helping new players.  A few addiitonal notes on Maytree's points:
 
1.  Personally, I think giving extra rewards for pugging as opposed to premade kind of punishes people for running in a premade, so I'm against it on that principle in Wildstar.  However, I've enumerated a (at this point vague) system whereby individual players are rewarded for being reliable in pugs over extended periods of time which mean individuals get rewarded for sticking with pugs.  That might work.
 That's why I proposed a sliding scale that starts in the middle and can go positive or negative.  Positive pug work and reliability increases benefits and rewards.  Negative pug work and constant bugging out should impact players accordingly.  That should sort things out to a degree.
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			I still think that for experienced people in the vet dungeon bracket, the main bottleneck remains with tanks. I have still yet to sit in queue as a tank for vet dungeons for over 5 mins. Usually they are still instant.	
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I still think that for experienced people in the vet dungeon bracket, the main bottleneck remains with tanks. I have still yet to sit in queue as a tank for vet dungeons for over 5 mins. Usually they are still instant.
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I think it's an overall reluctance to pug on behalf of the skill positions.
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I think it's an overall reluctance to pug on behalf of the skill positions.
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Not skill positions, responsibility positions.
 
At least, IMO. Between tanking and DPS, I've found that DPS requires more skill, but tanking is more stressful because there's more responsibility.
 
I've sat in some long dungeon queues as a tank, but generally during prime time I get queues.
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It's a football term.  The "skill positions" are the ones responsible for ball handling or ball stoppage (inb4 badoompish).  It was used a lot when I played WoW, especially in the early years, to describe the healers and tanks, since the DPS just line up and work the rotation until things fell down.
 
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Its funny, because I think of DPS as the skill positions in football, because they can only perform their job with a solid offensive line(healers) and quarterback (tank), and yes, I understand quarterback is considered a skill position.  This is coming from a healer and I think it fits better with general demeanor and job.  Healers, work together as a unit to protect the quarterback (tank) and block for the running back (dps).  The tank/quarterback is, generally, the leader, takes most of the heat/focus of the other team, and his job is to put the backs/receivers (dps) in a position to score (kill the boss).  DPS (backs/recivers) focus on their numbers, they focus on getting to the endzone, and have limited responsibilities. 
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It's a football term.  The "skill positions" are the ones responsible for ball handling or ball stoppage (inb4 badoompish).  It was used a lot when I played WoW, especially in the early years, to describe the healers and tanks, since the DPS just line up and work the rotation until things fell down.
 
In Wildstar specifically, I think it's apt.  Having had to tank, it's much harder than DPSing (because of how many extra choices and situational awareness are on your shoulders to perform, since you can't duck and dive so much that the healer can't heal you, the melee DPS can't keep up, and the RDPS are out of easy range for the healer).  God only knows how much harder healing is; I wouldn't want to be the healer trying to target people intentionally taking evasive action.
 
DPS is relatively carefree because generally, unless there's a mechanic involved, you don't have to worry about anyone but yourself and how much damage you're doing.
 
YMMV though.  The "skill positions" don't mean people with skill anymore than an offensive lineman has no skill, it's just a description related to how important they are in the scheme compared to the relatively larger amount of DPS.
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			Don't you think we have reached a sad state of affairs where we NEED to be rewarded for helping others?  Says more about society today than just mere gaming.  Something to meditate on ...	
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Don't you think we have reached a sad state of affairs where we NEED to be rewarded for helping others?  Says more about society today than just mere gaming.  Something to meditate on ...
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Don't you think we have reached a sad state of affairs where we NEED to be rewarded for helping others?  Says more about society today than just mere gaming.  Something to meditate on ...
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			To be honest, I help people because they need help.  I jump in if I can not get a "tell off in time" but, most times I ask if they need help.  Being a leveling vet, I know that some may not want help but, if I see someone in extremis ( about to die ) I just jump in and help.  It would be nice if someone says thanks but, most do not.  Most don't even complain.  That's cool.  I just hope by my jumping in that it may engender in the player that I helped, that they may think to do the same for another in the future.  I consider it a bonus if I make a new acquaintance and a super bonus if they become a friend.  The point of helping is to help.  Basically, in our day and time we are so concentrated on the "pay back" that we have lost or are surely loosing our sense of altruism.  So just be like you were meant to be and help each other out when you see some one in need.  Helping is THE REWARD.  We were meant for more and we were meant to be in relation and communion with each other.  Remember I am saying this as a card carrying solo "altoholic"", and yet I still will help out someone that seems to be in need.  I don't NEED to do it, but I do it because it is the right thing to do  (by the natural law written in our hears).  I seek no reward and neither should anyone of us.  I look at those opportunities "in game" as training for "irl".  Please, don't respond to the "spirit of the age" and be as you were meant to be and remember that we are all our "brother's keepers" (meaning we should watch out for one and other and help when the other is in need). We were made for more. :)   	
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Kytar, I'm with you. But in group content like dungeons, it only works if the entire group is altruistic. Factor in that the difference between a run of folks who know what they are doing vs a "learning run" is something like 30 minutes vs 2 hours, and well you end up with a lot of people who will just quit the group at the first sign of trouble. Like the guy I mentioned in the OP who quit at the first wipe. As altruistic as I wanted to be (which was really the whole reason I was there in the first place- to help out this new player), it was thwarted by another guy who had no interest in helping out. Which is his right and choice.
 
And the thing is, even when people don't quit after the first wipe, there's always the lingering fear that if we don't do well enough, someone's going to reach the end of their patience. This is one of the benefits of guild runs: you generally have a good idea who is in it for how long. When you aren't sure how much tolerance the group has it adds to the tension, making it less fun.
 
So if you add just enough to help reward people for spending that extra hour or hour and a half helping someone learn, I think it would make for a lot more positive dungeon experiences. And people will get the additional benefit of the reward that comes for being helpful.
 
On a side note, I've told this story before, but it's a good one. When my friends and I were first learning Stormtalon we queued for a random DPS. We got some guy whose guild was raiding, but he was on the bench that night. He was way overgeared for STL, but he just liked running it. He wiped with us for something like three hours, even when we told him we'd understand if he left. He kept giving us pointers and helping us along. We weren't successful that night (but we were the next time we tried), and he stuck it out with us. We sent him money for his repairs, but he certainly didn't demand it (and we didn't offer it- we just sent it after the fact).
 
So altruism does exist in the game :)	
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Having to run progression discipline in the dungeons was both awesome and horrifying.  Awesome because "ooh, challenge".  Horrifying because... "pfft, good luck getting the masses to come back again."  Worse, running the content was a net loss thanks to stingy payouts and expensive repair bills.  Of course people are grumpy.
 
Insist that pure altruism and "for the experience" is enough motivation all you want, the 90% have spoken that it is not.  Yeah Carbine is working on the payout.  I hope they keep in mind that if the cost (chain wipe repair costs) to learn the content gets too high, people will still say "why bother?".	
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I hope they keep in mind that if the cost (chain wipe repair costs) to learn the content gets too high, people will still say "why bother?".
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Nah, it's not sad, it's psych. Back in 1973 Darley and Batson showed (in the classic "Good Samaritan" experiment -- Google it if you want details) that putting people under time pressure drastically increased the likelihood that otherwise helpful people would ignore a stranger in medical distress.  
 
Think about the pace of modern life. 
 
Think about the time pressure most people play MMOs under.  
 
It's not that people (or MMO players) aren't willing to be helpful, it's that the presence of time pressure kills that impulse. Offering rewards is the way to counteract that natural tendency to ignore others when you are in a hurry. 
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It's a side effect of using timers to judge the dungeons for medals instead of completion or efficiency.  It's nothing as nebulous as the pace of modern life or time pressure of play, it's because your rewards are tied directly to how fast you go.
 
Honestly, the BEST way to increase altruism is to remove that.  Change the medaling metrics so that time is no longer an issue in a PUG, but some other, more direct game metric.
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I really don't think the timers are an issue anymore. I have not run into anyone concerned with the medal in a pug dungeon for a long time. If they weren't there, the people that are concerned would still be annoyed that they aren't speed running the place.
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I LOVE the silver timers :(
 
Most pugs I'm in try for silver, and if it misses, they go "oh well" and finish anyway. Usually with a complement to the run at the end, even if we didn't get silver.
 
The only times I've had people quit is when other players are majorly missing basic stuff at the beginning. Like standing in the red, missing interrupts, or having low dps. Basically, over newer players being in the group. But I haven's seen anyone quit over not getting a medal in a log time.	
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Timetravel has specifically called this out as something they plan to address.
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I LOVE the silver timers :(
 
Most pugs I'm in try for silver, and if it misses, they go "oh well" and finish anyway. Usually with a complement to the run at the end, even if we didn't get silver.
 
The only times I've had people quit is when other players are majorly missing basic stuff at the beginning. Like standing in the red, missing interrupts, or having low dps. Basically, over newer players being in the group. But I haven's seen anyone quit over not getting a medal in a log time.
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Even going back to Maytree's example where the new player quit the pug in FFIV:ARR and the older players didn't, that player still wasn't really helped in that situation. The older players wanted the rewards, but in the end, the new player was overwhelmed, didn't receive the support/help they needed, and quit the group without a word.
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That wasn't by any means typical though -- because if the healer had said he/she was new then help would have been offered, by me if by no one else.  I assume that this player was new to the game as a whole, not just to that dungeon, and had come from a much harsher PuG community where admitting you were new might get you kicked, and where you could expect to get screamed at if you hadn't studied the videos of the dungeons before queueing up for it, even at the basic difficulty level.  It's much more typical for the "New Player bonus!" message to go up and have the new player immediately say "I'm the noob, boss tips would be great," and then everything's fine. Failure to admit that it's your first time in a dungeon and failure to ask for help (particularly after a wipe) is usually a sign of embarrassment plus fear at the reaction of the other players, and that comes out being treated badly in the past. 
 
It was pretty common in Wildstar PuGs to get kicked if you admitted you were new. Teaching the dungeons, particularly without voice chat, was too time-consuming for most players, particularly those after gold who saw the "I'm new" admission as proof that they were wasting their time in this PuG. I ran into this problematic attitude toward Wildstar's five-man instanced content for the first time in the Open Beta when I queued up for my first adventure (Hycrest) and got screamed at by another player for not having it memorized. I was floored by the idea that anyone could expect other players in an open beta to know the instanced content (? How exactly?!)  and would scream at them about it. It almost stopped me from buying the game at all, I was so put off by it. Unfortunately that turned out to be more typical than not for much of Wildstar's PuG community.  The toxicity of your typical Wildstar PuG dungeon group is already kind of legendary which is why the common attitude is that there's just no point in even trying the dungeons without a guild group and voice chat if you're new to it.  I won't even get into what being forced to use voice chat does to female players who would rather avoid letting their gender be known.    
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when 4/5 people aren't geared or runed properly and are underestimating the instance, no matter how many hours I stick around, it's not going to go better that time.
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It's frustrating to run vet dungeons with players who haven't runed out their gear. Not sure what the easy fix is for that, what the criteria for a warning would be, but for me it feels like people aren't respecting my time by not coming in prepared.
 
Of course, they have to KNOW they need to be prepared and without searching on the internet, no one would know what the base gear requirements for dungeons are . . .	
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Oh, I forgot to reply to this bit in my last post. The dungeons didn't give players any information about whether they were undergeared or not when they queued up, which is a major issue when your dungeons (your level 20 starter dungeons!) essentially have unstated item level requirements.  Unlike other MMOs, Wildstar didn't lock out people who were terminally undergeared or warn them before they queued that these dungeons required gearing up for successful completion. I certainly don't blame people for thinking their first dungeon experience in a new game would be something they could walk into wearing quest reward gear and expect to get through.
 
Since the difficulty of those level 20 dungeons was deliberately set at a much higher than typical level for an MMO, it would have been both wise and kind to inform players of that fact instead of putting them in a situation where an experienced player like this poster would look at their gear, quite correctly go "Nope, not gonna happen," and leave.  
 
Gear level lockouts don't ensure that players coming in will actually be prepared, of course, but it means they at least have a chance instead of guaranteeing that their first dungeon experience will end in a humiliating endless wipefest and require them to abandon the dungeon, go out, gear up, and come back.  I saw Wildstar characterized somewhere else as "player hostile" and this is a really good example of a way in which dev thoughtlessness and lack of foresight all but guaranteed a bad player experience in a core part of the game. 
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