116245-free-transfers-to-jabbit-are-killing-luminai-page-3

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Primetime Luminai for anyone interested (btw most of the people in city are my guildies...)
 
 
 
 
So there we have it.
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I wanted to say that the Live Team has been actively monitoring Megaservers population on both datacenters and as it currently stands they determined that the population is currently healthy on NA and EU PvP Megaservers. No stance change regarding PvE > PvP transfers.
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Here is a Jabbit counter at the same time frame to your pictures:
 
 
 
 
You guys in Luminai are imagining things, the population is fine guys, Carbine numbers said so and they know best! 
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			my mistake, ignore post.	
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Before you post more, remember that the megaservers are both very healthy.
So no reason to argue about that anymore. This means that free transfer didnt kill Luminai after all.
 
 
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			          The "population is currently healthy"  line is the exact same one used to cover up the dead server issue prior to mega servers. Donetelli and the other execs have been promising they would not bs the customers anymore. They learned their lessons. Will do better at communication. Will be straight with you the players. yet after the posts from the raiding guilds on  Luminai that they have moved and the reasons for it, the players with actual screenshots of empty cities today and last night and the night before a CRB hops on and says "population is currently healthy".  That's just bad.         I have no personal stake in this as I am Na PVE. But not allowing pve to pvp megaserver transfers is a bad decision when so many left the various pvp servers pre-megaserver just to find people to play with. Not allowing people to transfer pve to pvp megservers after discovering they liked the pvp more than pvp and made friends in the few matches that did take place is bad. Letting one or 2 devs personal pet peeve keep hundreds of paying customers away from a place they want to be and to actually play the game they have paid for and continue to support through subscription is bad. Fix this please or much of the goodwill that was earned back with megaservers and the patchnotes for next drop and the interviews across the game sites will turn to dust. Just my 2 coppers worth.	
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I don't know how it is on the USA side, but here the population is around 80% PVE and 20% PvP. And because we're low on pop extra people are leaving for PVE as well. So either close transfers permanently or open free transfers the other way around. Gear difference or no gear difference but there shouldn't be such a horrible difference in the server pop.
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Greetings,
 
First of all apologies for the late reply.
 
I wanted to say that the Live Team has been actively monitoring Megaservers population on both datacenters and as it currently stands they determined that the population is currently healthy on NA and EU PvP Megaservers. No stance change regarding PvE > PvP transfers.
 
I understand that my reply won't be liked, but we still felt that it was better to post something and reiterate where we at now rather than not saying anything.
 
Thanks again for all the feedback we received so far.
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			I leveled my 3rd level 50 on Hazak because the population was actually okay there about 4-5 weeks ago. After I hit 50 there was a noticeable decline (also new subscription month) and now after Megaservers + the transfer to Jabbit, Luminai is nowhere near okay.	
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Well, here's me hoping that drop 3 hits and is bloody worth the waiting my guild and I have put in.
 
We are loyal members to the game, all love it and the pvp (but we also LOVE the vets, so much fun to do)
 
But with the carbine response to this, and the general blindsiding of actual problems that so many people have been bringing up, I know for sure... If Drop 3 hits, and it hasn't been worth waiting for, I (admittedly a fangirl) will just give up. 
There is only so much loyalty you can give to a developer, and I really love the way how interactive Carbine have tried to be with their fanbase, but game management wise... just awful.
 
If there are technical limitations to pve->pvp, I'd much rather hear that than the "we have been monitoring pop bla bla bla fine".
Because, it isn't anywhere near fine right now.
 
All of my hopes are on Drop 3 bringing some life back to the game...	
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Agreed, it's also giving a hugely false impression that PvE is the place to be. Ultimately it's the large raiding guilds who want to scoop members, started by Eugenic's move which started the bandwagon. This was a beneficial move for them to pick up some raiders because of the way transfers work, and now every guild is thinking the same way. Ultimately, it's just going to move the problem to the PvE servers whilst causing confusion and blowing out the PvP servers in the panic. A lot of people simply see threads of big DS guilds moving and assume that's the right thing / following the hype train. There's really no valid reason to not allow PvE -> PvP transfers (levelling arguments are so miniscule it's negligible). Even PvPers are starting to think that the best PvP is on PvE servers - it's making the whole system work backwards! Someone should make a detailed reddit post about this if that's what it takes to get the Carbine dev's attention. People are forgetting how amazing PvP is.
 
This is what PvP servers are about!:
 
 
 
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			Walzy left too? :o	
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^ Really? o.O
 
Cus I thought he stayed, who knows.	
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Thank you for the response Youmukon.  But if you guys at Carbine can't have people working on just knowing the status of the community, then you are doing something wrong. Just like with bugs we've seen on the Medic, where people have said "If anyone had just logged in and tried playing - they would have found this bug", I can say that if just someone would have logged in and tried playing on Luminai - you would have seen the issue.
 
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Walzy left too? :o
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Damn... well there goes all my rivalries :/
 
It amuses me really, half the people who were saying they were staying Luminai actually ended up jumping ship anyway.
 
I don't regret my decision to stay, yet.
 
Let's just hope drop 3 is decent.	
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Yeah he's now on Jabbit and it's hard not to notice. He's advertising in PvP chat about his PvP circle, Trade chat with his gathering circle, and zone chat with his 'friend circle' or w/e that one's called. Spend 15 minutes in Thayd and you'll see WalzY :P
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^ Really? o.O
 
Cus I thought he stayed, who knows.
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Well, that sucks for you guys :/
 
Unfortunately, Dominion side doesn't have as many guilds. There seems to be a lot of the international community left though, and they're all pvpers so :D	
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Not only did he transfer, but he merged with another guild and they all transfered Monday morning. On top of that instead of passing them down he closed every and each circle that he owned. But it's alright because some of my guildies had to transfer their mains off to be able to afford CREDD so whenever they are on Jabbit they can insult him for lying AND ruining a bunch of circles for us. 
And yes, he lied. They left in pretty much perfect formation with no-one left behind. You can't plan such a jump without preparation.
 
Now surprisingly for me, guilds that are doing well - Oldskool (these guys were nowhere to be seen for months and now they're advertising that they're at 5/6GA. Wow guys. Way to go! :) ), Exterminatus (I think that's their name?) another friendly guild going trough raids, Synthesis - no clue about them but seen their adverts and people with their tags, The Unknowns - we're doing relatively okay. How many people come online is so unpredictable though. Sometimes it's 6 and it's sad, sometimes it's 18. Besides those there is the french community that seems to be doing relatively well, from what I've seen of them, but we don't share chat channels, so can't confirm how many guilds or how big they are.
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They merged with us, and it was definitely a last moment decision thing on Sunday night, we were lucky to have been able to round everyone up at the last moment, from both guilds. In the end, raiding was of course of more importance than world PvP, and it's clear which server offers the most opportunities for continuing into Datascape.
 
As for some of the guilds you mentioned, the only reason some of them could not transfer was because they would leave people behind. We didn't, so it's clear to see what the best / most low risk option was.
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			I'm just saying that it's ok if he changed his mind even when he did post that. Sometimes decisions have to be made, and in the end we decided it would be better to move despite everything that has been said. I don't know about the circle thing as it doesn't concern me.	
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			Personally I like the idea of merging PVP and PVE realms, and allowing ppl to Pick if their char is Pve or PvP when creating it. Sounds like a pretty simple solution to a complex problem. ^^	
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Personally I like the idea of merging PVP and PVE realms, and allowing ppl to Pick if their char is Pve or PvP when creating it. Sounds like a pretty simple solution to a complex problem. ^^
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This makes the game very unfair to people who pick PvP, their flag is always on while PvE'rs can gank them whenever they want and simply switch their flags back off if they realize the bloke's got more friends.
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It has a cooldown, so you cant just switch it off instantly.
And this could be extended so the cd is there for example, as long as you are in the zone, or like 15min.
 
No need to say "but still they can gank ppl just before they are leaving anyways", because thats always been what u could do in pvp server.
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Then there's absolutely no difference from switching your flags to PvP on and looking for similar people doing the same thing.
 
What a lot of PvE'ers don't see from the PvP'ers perspective is that a lot of PvPers have very thick skin and they don't give a flying cupcake whether they get ganked since they understand the nature of the PvP server and have various mechanisms to get around the predicament. i.e. make Alts, watch TV, craft something, etc.
 
And once they're 50 and geared up, they simply let loose on whoever they deem worthy of facing their warlust.
 
PvE players do not understand this 'warlust' and think merging two different types of players will be 'okay'.
 
Well, no. It isn't okay to put a shark and a sea cow together in the same aquarium hoping they'd just get along.
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I got your point. But actually my suggestion would be more like psychological fix.
This way PvP players would actually feel like they didnt lose a thing.
 
We just want to see that wecould attack that player, even if we dont care to do it at this time.
Its just the feeling you know. You need to be able to do something, even if you dont want to right at that moment.
 
I know I have been doing more wPvP in jabbit on the last 2 days of being here, than the last 2 weeks in Luminai.
 
And the shark/sea cow thing; sea cows can use their super powers not to get attacked like they are doing atm. Let the sharks cry.
But at least the sharks can see other sharks there every now and then, and this is satisfying the sharks I believe.
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I really don't get why Carbine doesn't allow PVE -> PVP transfer, that rule is so 2004 i know its not technical because Blizzard clearly allowed it back in 2008 (it didn't make any drama or declinal in population for them) and if people ASK you to do it why not?! 
 
So it must be some management who clearly doesn't care for consumers who in the end pay his bills. But ok Carbine act like this but in the end when you go f2p or even worse NCsoft shots you down, don't go cry around with how we didn't like your game the base of the game is good.
 
and if you say that population is healthy (in such an arrogant way) please show us numbers of ACTIVE EU level 50 characters in peak hours on PVE and PVP.
 
I would like respond from Cougar or @Cougardc
 
moderator edit: content 
			
				
	Edited October 21, 2014 by Chillia	
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I really don't get why Carbine doesn't allow PVE -> PVP transfer, that rule is so 2004 i know its not technical because Blizzard clearly allowed it back in 2008 (it didn't make any drama or declinal in population for them) and if people ASK you to do it why not?! 
 
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It's unfair for players who had no problems grinding straight to 50 unhindered to transfer to a server where people suffered and experienced tons of ganks in order to reach cap.
 
Plain and simple.
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Ask the community that...I levelled on a PvP server, as did loads of others.  Did we get ganked, nah not much...people wanted to get to 50, not fart about attacking each other!
 
I would say you'll be surprised at who's bothered if someone levelled to 50 on a PvE or PvP server "the hard way".  There is no hard way, you don't get corpse camped etc it's a myth.
 
Wack a poll up and see who's really arsed if someone goes PvE to PvP, I'm not and I levelled on a PvP server.  It's not like it takes 6 months to get to max level.
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You and loads of others do not and will not make up for ALL the PvP players who played since launch.
 
Please keep that in mind.
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It's unfair for players who had no problems grinding straight to 50 unhindered to transfer to a server where people suffered and experienced tons of ganks in order to reach cap.
 
Plain and simple.
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That's why I said run a poll.
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To get replies from people who still play the game which is a mere drop of what the population of PvP'ers were during launch?
 
Laughable.
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Please refrain from the insults guys. I don't want to have to lock this thread. I understand people are frustrated, and your feedback has been appreciated and has been looked at, but you have to be able to debate it without flinging insults or it just won't  be able to continue here on these forums. 
 
- Team WildStar 	
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Are you for real, that must be the most stupid thing i ever heard, its like that first month of the coming-out, when i started leveling my esper in July - August 1-50 didn't get ganked single time, now its even worse and who even cares about that?
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Give you the phone numbers and emails of every single member left and let you contact them to make sure you get 100% coverage?
 
You're the laughable one here, there is no other way to get an indication is there.
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Hey there Mirta!
I just wanna add that all the philosophy and so called 'values' behind people decision to move, is really irrelevant because what derived the majority of players to migrate is simple - survival.
I can tell you that Equilibrium moved to Jabbit simply because the zero population on Luminai, and as much as we love or hate open world pvp, nothing we do can change Luminai's population.
As a raiding guild, we rely on population, as players naturally come and go, so no population = no raiding in the long run. and its something we simply cant afford.
So we found ourselves on the last minute having to make a decision of "do or die" and logically, we chose do.
Walzy and his guild were facing the same thing, and our shared distress ended with the decision both our guilds made, and for the time being it proves to be a wise decision.
 
I'll also tell you something personal and unfortunate. For me, Jabbit is the last stop, meaning - if it fails on Jabbit, theres simply no way to fix it and the game is done population wise (and that ofc leads to a total flat line in all aspects).
 
Bottom line, no1 is to blame for carbine mistakes - but carbine. so please understand people are doing their best with that they got, and in such times of "crisis", values and principles tend to get overlooked.
 
Cheers,
 
Shy.	
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Give you the phone numbers and emails of every single member left and let you contact them to make sure you get 100% coverage?
 
Laughable, there is no other way to get an indication is there.
 
EDIT: Also..why are you mentioning players who played in the past?  What does that matter, they don't play now so for this game to move forward we don't need to be bringing up people who have already jumped ship and didn't give it enough time.  It's about the here and now and if the general consensus is we don't care if people levelled on PvE or PvP, let them play where they want then that is what matters.  People then starting to play from now have the choice to play on a PvE or PvP server with the correct playerbases on each, not a mixed playerbase on a PvE server that are missing the PvP focussed players who also do a lot of PvE.
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			I've been playing for a little over a week and I wanted to play the pvp side, however after taking a toon to illum on both servers i've swapped over, I actually see people out in the wilds whilst levelling up, yes i can't pvp with them but on the old server i didn't see any one to actually pvp with! btw I'm intentionally ignoring the odd level 50 exile i saw out lowbie hunting, thats not pvp	
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The devs already stated their stance on the matter (If you've been using devtracker, you'd know). And I don't blame them.
 
PvE players should stick to PvE unless they want to reroll on a PvP server. but if PvP servers are dying, no one should blame PvP players or CARBINE for moving to the other side just so that they could progress normally.
 
Before moving, those players, myself included, were presented with the 'ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO DO THIS?' option. And guess what? a lot of them clicked on YES.
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We are are losing alot of folks because of this.
 
As a PvX guild, this shit ain't funny in the slightest. I'm really worried for my guild.
 
I just hope Carbine will see the light and tries to fix this situation.
 
All the evidence is there.
 
But it seems the only way these devs get a message is Crises.
 
I hope it doesn't come to that. If Luminai dies, so will my guild.
 
I will stop playing WildStar if this happens i'm afraid.
 
In every MMO i have played i have NEVER experienced anything like this.
 
I'm sad :unsure:	
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The choice to be PvP or PvE was not a choice, it became a necessity.
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Only to those who wished to progress in the more PvE part of the game.
 
Those who'd rather do OW-ganking and could care less about raiding are the type of people who didn't transfer. And that's the main gist of it.
 
It's not through necessity if you're given the choice to stay or leave.
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Only to those who wished to progress in the more PvE part of the game (i.e. DS, GA raids in general) dedicatedly (as in that's what they eat, sleep and drink, RAIDS).
 
Those who'd rather do OW-ganking and do not mind getting OW-ganked and could care less about raiding are the type of players who didn't NEED to transfer and I'm certain they didn't. And that's the main gist of it.
 
It's not through necessity if you're given the choice to stay or leave and that's all it really is, a choice.
 
I'm sure by healthy the dev meant there are way more than 50 players capable of doing RAIDS however, not every day. But I'm sure there still are, and if those people would merge their guilds into one lone RAIDING guild. I'm sure they'd still thrive no matter what.
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Since when are PvP and PvE mutually exclusive? pfff.
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I can tell you that Equilibrium moved to Jabbit simply because the zero population on Luminai
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This is very true.
 
But I've met players who only played the game for OW-PVP. and completing RAIDS only made sure they've got the gear to do it more often and more easily.
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Yea but now the gear is split PvP stats / PvE stats ish that shouldn't really happen.
 
It's mainly problem for PvX (as it's called) players / guilds because people like to Raid on raid days and PvP on off days / open world etc.  They also have pure PvP players in them and some pure PvE etc.
 
I think if they opened up a final set of transfers PvE -> PvP and PvP -> PvE and let people settle where they want to it could fix the issue.  New people coming to the game can then choose knowingly what they are going into.
 
But if they reopen server transfers (paid) in future as PvE -> PvP only then the problem is there again and everyone will stay on PvE.
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			20k+ views on this topic and still not a single letter from Cougar, just sad.	
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Yea but now the gear is split PvP stats / PvE stats ish that shouldn't really happen.
 
It's mainly problem for PvX (as it's called) players / guilds because people like to Raid on raid days and PvP on off days / open world etc.  They also have pure PvP players in them and some pure PvE etc.
 
I think if they opened up a final set of transfers PvE -> PvP and PvP -> PvE and let people settle where they want to it could fix the issue.  New people coming to the game can then choose knowingly what they are going into.
 
But if they reopen server transfers (paid) in future as PvE -> PvP only then the problem is there again and everyone will stay on PvE.
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The reason the customers are upset is because carbine is sticking their heads in the sand and pretend it's not happening and everything is rainbows and sunshine. In the meantime guilds are bleeding players to death and they have no idea how to fix this.
 
This whole debacle is on carbine. They decided to let people transfer for free to a PvE server and not the other way.
 
What was the thinking? I'm absolutely baffled by it.
 
And still we have 0 response from cougar or whoever from carbine.
 
More and more i think i am just done with these devs... Pure frustration and misery. :wacko:	
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I have accepted it, that's why I moved to Jabbit.  I made that decision because I want to play with groups of people and Raid but I also want to be able to do open world PvP etc.  It doesn't stop me giving a bit of constructive (I hope) criticism where I think it can be given.
 
Carbine have also made misakes in the past on HUGE decisions as you put it and have admitted doing so themselves so this could be no different.
 
I'm happy to play on Jabbit because everyone is on there!  I wouldn't be happy being stuck on Luminai though with no option but to reroll.
 
I'm one of what appear to be the few saying give the game at least 6 month to a year to fix the stuff that's broke, it was released in what could be referred to as a beta state really and it's gonna take that long to stabilise.
 
They can do whatever they want but I don't think this particular decision helped them, especially when looking at the opinions of those who felt they had to move from Luminai and also for those stranded on Luminai.	
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			Don't worry guys, everything is ok...........and more importantly "healthyyyyyyy  healthieeeieieieeieeeieieieieee111!!Oneonene!"	
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I have accepted it, that's why I moved to Jabbit.  I made that decision because I want to play with groups of people and Raid but I also want to be able to do open world PvP etc.  It doesn't stop me giving a bit of constructive (I hope) criticism where I think it can be given.
 
Carbine have also made misakes in the past on HUGE decisions as you put it and have admitted doing so themselves so this could be no different.
 
I'm happy to play on Jabbit because everyone is on there!  I wouldn't be happy being stuck on Luminai though with no option but to reroll.
 
I'm one of what appear to be the few saying give the game at least 6 month to a year to fix the stuff that's broke, it was released in what could be referred to as a beta state really and it's gonna take that long to stabilise.
 
They can do whatever they want but I don't think this particular decision helped them, especially when looking at the opinions of those who felt they had to move from Luminai and also for those stranded on Luminai.
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Carbine has been acting a little shell-shocked and reactionary as of late.  Honestly, I don't trust their big-picture planning at all at the moment.  Truth be told, it still feels like they're still trying to apply T-cut when a chassis realignment is needed.
 
In any case, my game time is up in a couple of days.  I might come back for another go around in a few months.	
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Whatever happens, not much has really changed except server population and I'm sure in a few weeks, there will be more people joining the PvP server, either rerolled PvE players who got bored or new players trying the game out wanting the over the shoulder experience.
 
You're not seeing the big picture here.
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The big picture, from my PoV is the future playerbase.
 
I am confidant that new players will not like what they see in Luminai despite loving PvP. As a new player you do not know about the history of the game and you have no idea that everyone is on Jabbit. They will choose Luminai based on the PvP tag it has, see that the population is almost non existent, and believe all the doom and gloom on Reddit saying the game is dead, and quit before making it to 50 adding more people to spread the bad word about Wildstar.
 
As the population currently stands, if those new players clicked on Jabbit, the chance that they would play the game to end game and enjoy it and praise it to their friends is much higher than the unlucky ones that clicked Luminai. Its like a lottery at this point, unless they research the forums before choosing a server so we can advice them to play on Jabbit.
 
My goal is to see the two servers recover in the long run. The only way for that to happen is to give people freedom, a weekly free transfer, even with that they wont transfer instantly but in the long run it'll fix itself. If the transfers are locked there is no hope for the future because Jabbit players cannot rescue Luminai and new players will most likely quit before reaching end game due to empty server. 
 
Whether it is now or in the future, PvE <> PvP WILL be opened, i can promise you that, even if Cougar promises you it wont, he doesn't know what he's talking about and eventually he will be forced to do it, or perhaps when he quits and the new guy in charge will do it, hopefully the game is not too damaged by then. For now, all we can do is laugh while they lie to us and themselves by saying the population is fine, trololo. xD
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Well, you've yet to meet REAL sharks then.
 
The choosing to go PvE and PvP on character creation in the same server is redundant since there's already a switch to turn your PvP flag on or off for PvE servers.
 
Basically, you're just saying, let's all just get along.
 
Well, unfortunately, that won't fly.
 
The game's concept revolves around a world with TWO OPPOSING FACTIONS.
 
If this were a game where there are no factions and simply a lot of different races then one PvE server is definitely the way to go(considering the current population).
 
However, this is not the case for Wild Star, and the true hardcore PvP'ers would prefer the authentic experience of playing together with the dangers of kill or be killed than dance and be merry while picking up flowers.
 
To be honest, the game's core concept of a war between two enemy factions on a distant planet is a lot similar to this game.
 
Except in said game, there are three races/factions and that there is absolutely NO PvE server meaning all throughout you're faced with potential ganks by the enemy factions indiscriminately.
 
It's a good thing Carbine decided to go the more mainstream route of allowing PvE and PvP players their own separate servers considering the lore and concept.
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The devs are listening but that doesn't mean they should start remodeling their game to please  a small or average amount of subscribers.
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Well there is a lie, bigger lie and statistic...
If they simply counted down no. of characters in both server it can be close to even, as many players left alts behind, well some even created one just to check how Luminai looks now. Not to mention not active accounts, as PvP servers were much more populated on lunch and bunch of accounts nobody logged on for weeks/months were also transferred to PvP.
The only way to check is population is ok, would be checking playtime of 50 (and only 50) lvl characters on both servers. I suppose number for Jabbit would be 10+ times higher.
 
Only solution now would be marge or "virtual merge" (possibility of create cross server guilds, party and AH+CX - without actually server merge) with possibility to transfer (even as paid option - it would be kinda scam) to PvP server.
 
If they will do nothing, they will loose some of current subscribers (not so many, as much have changed serv to PvE anyway) and (assuming, that once again most newcomers would choose PvP) over 50% of potential new clients.
Adding here fact that the game is definitely not anything close to popular it's straight way to close project, well they will most likely keep costs down for Europe, if US part can keep up (as there problem seems to not occur). Of course as long as NC Soft will be pleased with incomes.
There is also chance of relunch as F2P, but they will have to change many things in game, besides if there will be any other premium option besides current (CREEDs, changing nicknames etc.) many, many players will leave - question is if more willing to pay will come. Right now it is also only theory, as game was obviously and still isn't ready to be released (yet it was over 4M ago...).	
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You need to understand the magnitude of the damage that is being done, if you understood it you wouldn't be saying small or average amount of subscribers... If you haven't witnessed it or kept track of it on reddit/ingame/wsforums then i'm afraid you wont be able to comprehend what is happening, and from your PoV we are exaggerating. Curious, are you on Luminai or Jabbit?
 
 
 
Disagree. If the game is 100% bug free and has no population what good is that? They go hand in hand, you cannot ignore one and focus on the other alone.
 
We're asking for basic features that should be here in order to keep the game population balanced. As someone told you before, if you made a poll and asked people in Luminai if they mind having Jabbit players transfer to them, i bet you will get above 90% wanting it to happen. If you make another poll asking Jabbit players if they would have played on Luminai if not for this policy, you'll be surprised by how many would say yes. In other words, Carbine forced players into Jabbit by having a policy that favors Jabbit.
 
We are not talking about a minority here, we are talking about the majority, a poll is required for those in denial.
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Because no matter what you say or think, there are A LOT of players currently playing this game.
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It's as if you're saying there are absolutely NO people who quit the game BECAUSE of BUGS.
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			I wonder why they opened free transfers to Jabbit anyway... was luminai way more populated? Or did they just realise that PVE was more of a feature in WS?	
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First of all define a lot. Secondly where are you pulling your numbers from? Since Carbine hasn't actually shown us anything. Yes the Megaservers merged the servers so some Megaservers are now more busy, however that's because they gathered all the current players into one place pretty much per region. Jabbit is in a much better state than Luminai, but are there a lot of players? We don't know because we don't have the numbers. The LFG hasn't improved queue wise so one could say that they haven't managed to bring back many players.
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Well the transfer period is over now, so many people jumped ship right before the deadline out of fear of being abandoned. I'm happy that my guildies did not, we shall build this place! That is what "ruined" the server, the community being nervous seeing the big guilds disappearing, then following in their footsteps blindly. 
 
I just signed in, and the usual people I used to play with are still here, people who are exclusive pvp players or alts of those people. Luminai is not dead, but it's not Jabbit by a near long shot.
 
I feel like I am playing on Contagion (before I PAID to transfer to Hazak) or hazak at it's lowest point again 
 
But like I said, I don't regret my decision to stay, I know I would have gotten bored on a pve server and even though we don't really have people to recruit here, I'm happy I stayed. 
 
I just hope Cougar stops being silly and opens a "one time" transfer period for pvp-ers who have been desperate to play here for so long, have that chance to get here on their mains, it would make the world of difference to so many people.	
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When did i say that? hand in hand means they are equally important, i never said people never quit because of bugs.
 
Shall i use your own argument on you then. Its as if you're saying NO people quit because of transfer/population issues!
 
 
Irrelevant to the topic. We are not discussing about number of players in Wildstar, we are discussing number of players in Luminai VS Jabbit. 
 
No, there is not A LOT of players on Luminai, most moved to Jabbit.
 
 
This doesn't help at all. The topic we are having in this thread has been reported more than 3 months ago, its not fixed in a blink of an eye to a couple of days. Infact their stance is still a resounding NO, they will not change it.
 
 
Cougar did have the community managers respond on his behalf. We are disagreeing with their response. Cougar never explained his reasoning behind this policy and why he is stubborn about it though.
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Enough to keep the game going, and most certainly enough to not need to resort to PvE to PvP transfers.
 
Jabbit's population is a lot.
 
While before transferring from Luminai we were still able to do daily BH and R12.
 
We've checked the channels through /who. and the numbers aren't so alarming. 
 
Even if Thayd is empty doesn't mean there aren't people in Phagelabs or Malgrave farming tons of Eldan Fusion signs. and do not require porting since they're able to sell and repair with their vendor bots.
 
I was one of the farmers who rarely frequented in Thayd back when I was still in Luminai so I doubt that there aren't any others who were doing the same.
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According to you it's enough, although you actually have no solid numbers to show for since you can't be on 24/7 you can't actually sample the population properly. Your allowed your opinion, but other people are also allowed theirs. The fact that CRB have said that they don't really want to pull in new players at the moment so they don't have to see the state of the game says more than enough to me, since people been asking them to revamp the guest passes/trials to get more players into the game and they came back with that reply. That is worrying and nowhere near fine.
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You're missing the point, it's their game, and we're the players. We can voice our concerns but ultimately it's their decisions that will change the game. We're also not little kids. So if we've informed them of the situation and they decide to not go our way. Who are we to question their motives? I'm surprised no one's even mentioned this yet, but if you don't like this game, you're free to leave. I'm just voicing out my opinions as someone who does like, nay, adore this game. Because at this very moment I'm currently at work and can't play but If I were. I wouldn't waste my time trying to debate that what they're doing works even if it doesn't please players like you. And instead, CRAFT SOME CUPCAKE SHOES!
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I don't need solid numbers, I just know the game's still going strong no matter how many people say it's going down.
 
Someone even posted that Jabbit will eat Luminai and I told him/her that won't happen.
 
But if it does come to that, I'm sure Jabbit will still be there. No matter what, and the playerbase in Jabbit will only continue to grow more and more as it already has and will continue to do so.
 
Heck I'm sure that's probably why one of the posters posted something like ignore the naysayers in another thread. LOL
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I should leave the game you say? 
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You obviously didn't understand what is meant by 'If you don't like this game.'
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Just because people voice their concerns you presume that they don't like the game and if it's not good enough as it is now maybe you should be looking for something else - that's the impression you give people by saying that. People do in fact voice themselves because they like the game and want it to improve.
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And just because I posted 'if you don't like this game' you assumed that I presume that he didn't like the game?
 
 ^_^
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I don't need solid numbers, I just know the game's still going strong no matter how many people say it's going down.
 
Someone even posted that Jabbit will eat Luminai and I told him/her that won't happen.
 
But if it does come to that, I'm sure Jabbit will still be there. No matter what, and the playerbase in Jabbit will only continue to grow more and more as it already has and will continue to do so.
 
Heck I'm sure that's probably why one of the posters posted something like ignore the naysayers in another thread. LOL
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			As I said previously, the game is nowhere near fine when the developers doesn't want new players to see the state of the game, hence the shut down of the proposal (for the time being) to adjust guest passes and add trials.	
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You are aware that people are worried about Luminai here not Jabbit right?
 
Telling Luminai people that Jabbit will still be there no matter what and the playerbase in Jabbit will only continue to grow more and more is beyond selfish and rude... What the hell.
 
Off to bed like i said earlier, cya later tonight. :)
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You do realize a great number of Luminai players are now in Jabbit and still enjoying the game regardless of this fiasco.
 
Players tend to move around. And logical players tend to go with the flow instead of fighting it.
 
Most especially if it's already a lost battle.
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As long as people can voice their concerns it's not a lost battle. People picked a PvP server for a reason.
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The impression is made from what your saying, simple. Also you might want to stay on topic - as I said previously, the game is nowhere near fine when the developers doesn't want new players to see the state of the game, hence the shut down of the proposal (for the time being) to adjust guest passes and add trials.
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You do realize a great number of Luminai players are now in Jabbit and still enjoying the game regardless of this fiasco, right?
 
Even players who were definitely against it are now in Jabbit and playing the game as every Exile and Dominion should.
 
Players tend to move around. And logical players tend to go with the flow instead of fighting it.
 
Most especially if it's already a lost battle.
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You do realise that people moved to jabbit coes there was only one way transfer possible?! Before the free transfers the
pvp servers had more people, but because people could not join the pvp servers big guilds moved "for free" to pve. 
This made a panic reaction and killed the pvp server in the end. If the transfer flow was in both directions both servers would still
have had a good population.
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Rikudou, you're being misleading. You're choosing to leave out information, they didn't see a point in releasing a wave of media ads in light of the upcoming changes and the current negativity around the game. Didn't they specifically say they were waiting on the next big drop, and were working on something?
 
You've basically left out the context, which other players in the thread where that rep responded were themselves pointing out: It is not intelligent to advertise the game in its current state. Which doesn't mean they're ignoring marketing. D3 +Megaservers are a great reason to place ads, when D3 is actually here and some of the crapstorm around the net has cooled to a simmer.
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It was already lost as soon as the dev reaffirmed their stance.
 
That's all there is to it. :D
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People moved to Jabbit cos there're more people there and Open World PVP is a joke.
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Not trying to be an apologist here...
 
MMO's require an operational discipline that is far more mature than the rip-it-and-ship-it nature that is prevalent in the rest of the computer games industry.  Carbine is going through their trial-by-fire and right now they are in full-on crisis mode.  They're making mistakes (Original 6-hour notice to transfer) and decisions that didn't quite work out how they thought it would (Ok, ok, you've got until Monday...). 
 
Of course Cougar hasn't responded.  Their people are probably already exhausted from the operational nightmare of megasever transition and they haven't yet digested the implications of the diaspora.  Understanding wtf just happened is going to take meetings, figuring out how to deal with it will require more meetings and figuring out how to word the next "our bad" post another meeting.
 
Hopefully when they come out of the bunker they won't try to blow more smoke up our collective nether regions.
 
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On mixed PvE/PvP
 
I'm still baffled why unflagged players can affect flagged players at all.  Why should unflagged players get any sort of advantage?  In most encounters I've had the misfortune to be involved in it's been used by griefers to cause PvE'ers to autoflag by standing in their AoE's.  I have yet to find an MMO developer that's admitted that autoflagging is a BadIdeaTM .  For that reason I don't think merging the servers is a good idea.
 
If you look a the reasons for those that left, there is an alternative solution: Enable cross-realm raiding and markets (AH,CX,CREDD).  Bonus points for making guilds work cross-realm as well.  This will probably require some additional engineering and of course a ton of testing. 
 
Unfortunately they've already burned through what slack most people were willing to give them.  However they plan to address this situation, they can't afford to spend a lot of time on it.	
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What's misleading? They said they don't want new people to see it in it's current state. That they are continuously working on the game isn't a secret, that's what MMO's are. I can be as specific as I like, but those things regarding MMO's are obvious and I'm not going to post and talk about things that are obvious. You have no right to tell me what I can/can't/should talk about as a matter of fact.
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Of course Cougar hasn't responded.
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Are you going to keep criticizing people and then get all defensive and write things like "you have no right to tell me" when someone criticizes you?
 
What's misleading is you're using selective information to form an argument that carries obvious assertions. You're saying "the fact that they're not currently advertising the game is cause for me to be worried". I'm saying "the fact that it's not intelligent for them to advertise right now, and that it was said they are working on ads that will be released at the right time, which is not far off" is a cause for people to NOT be worried, because it is actually the smarter decision. If you want to debate that it's not smarter, go ahead. Otherwise I see you simply causing your own alienation by ignoring context, which is always important.
 
If you want to continue making assertions in this way, go for it. I'll continue calling you out on it.
 
 
edited for clarity
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Rikudou:
 
 
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As I said previously, the game is nowhere near fine when the developers doesn't want new players to see the state of the game, hence the shut down of the proposal (for the time being) to adjust guest passes and add trials.
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Rikudou:
 
 
 
To be very clear on my point, this is what I called you out on. You're not just saying it bothers you that there's no advertisement, you're claiming it means something specific about the health of the game as a whole. That's what I have a serious issue with. You're being misleading because, again, you use selective information to make an argument about the state of the game.
 
As far as "they're constantly working on the game so that means nothing", you're actually not engaging with my point. I'm not talking about working on the game, my very specific assertion is that, contrary to your opinion that it's bad for them to not be advertising, or says something bad about how the game is, it's actually good for them to not advertise right now, but, also contrary to the idea that they're not working on any ads at all (which I believe you yourself implied)... they are. You claim they shut down proposals (I assume from the playerbase) but you also have no idea what they're working on right now. Unless they say they're not doing any marketing work at all, shutting down proposals from the community means absolutely squat when it comes to marketing.
 
 
And to further develop my own assertion that it's smarter for them to wait anyway, what would happen if they brought in a bunch of new players right now, when it seems not many folks are queueing for instanced content? The major cities will get even laggier, folks will claim the game is broken "because no queue pops", and it would just be a mess.
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Just transfer. It's not that bad. Maybe they'll make a level 50 pvp zone one day.
 
The more centralised the playerbase, the better.	
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Just transfer. It's not that bad. Maybe they'll make a level 50 pvp zone one day.
 
The more centralised the playerbase, the better.
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When they don't want new players in for whatever reason it's bad. Period. CRB Anlath said that he was hopeful that the dungeon queue's etc would improve with the Megaservers - it hasn't. People, including myself, have given suggestions to change the Guest Passes and to add trials and they don't want to do that because they don't want new players to see the game as is, it tells me a lot about the state of the game. Gaining new players is always a good thing.
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			Let's get back on topic about the transfers! :)	
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