102416-any-word-on-server-merges-page-3

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Maybe it's my game history.  Wildstar's attunement is a damn sight easier than what I used to go through, so I don't look at it and shudder at its inaccessibility.  It doesn't even feel "hardcore" as far as attunement goes; I mean, there's an elder gem cap, or it'd be done in a few days.
 
I'm all for changing the system to reflect time input rather than an artificial gate, but I know the inevitable backlash.  You say Wildstar doesn't have to be easier, just less grindy.  If people are looking at raid attunement with shock and horror, the raid difficulty isn't going to make them happy either.  The raid bosses are hell on wheels.  People that can't clear silver attunement because they can't put together even five people that will play with them aren't going to walk into the Genetic Archives with a pug and succeed.  And we'll have what we have all over again, people complaining that they can't clear the raids, that they're only for hardcores, that this is Carbine's philosophy and that the game will never succeed this way.
 
I'm all for tweaking initial attunement and killing the stupid attunement pre-Datascape, but I know what's coming.  And the problem with that is, Wildstar can't be like FFXIV:ARR or WoW.  There are already FFXIV:ARR and WoW in the world.  Wildstar needs to exist on its own terms in some capacity.  And that is going to keep some amount of people out of the game, necessarily, but people who might not stick around for long anyway.  Time gates aside, without being viciously difficult, Wildstar blends into the background.  At the moment, it's about the most difficult PVE experience in the MMORPG world.
 
I'm very wary of dialing up WoW's Wrath playbook, because I saw what it did to WoW.  And I'm a fan of FFXIV:ARR, but I know that the people interested in FFXIV:ARR aren't going to drop that game and come to Wildstar unless the skill gate comes down, too.  FFXIV:ARR players aren't averse to grinding; they'll turn FATEs for days.
 
I'm of the mind that Wildstar doesn't need a broad philosophy change as much as a very detail-oriented sweep.  Right now, certain factors don't play to their strengths.  The artificial Elder Gem cap is one of them.  Wildstar's crowd doesn't mind having to constantly run dungeons over and over as long as they're inching their way along towards success.  You don't even have to remove the gem requirement for attunement.  It's the artificial cap that gets its core audience caught, stopped, having nothing they can do to "progress".  They're mostly probably still subbed, but why log in if they're capped?  They could make that an easier and more enjoyable pill to swallow by simply removing the cap for anything but dailies and adding elder gems that can surpass cap to dungeon and RBG loot.
 
I'm simply of the mind that outright removing the system kicks the can down the road and into the next highest wall.  First, people complained about leveling being too long and too boring and that it was just a gate that needed to be removed.  Then, they complained about renown, because PVPers weren't generating it and had to go grind it up.  Now they're complaining about the attunement to raiding.  After attunement, they will complain about raiding itself.  However, nothing should be handed to anyone.  You've got people saying they can't possibly get all the silvers they need for attunement right now, and that should be removed as a requirement.  It doesn't make sense; getting silver is a breeze compared to a raid.
 
It's really not what's killing Wildstar (if you can consider a bunch of people who tried it at launch and didn't like it leaving the game to be killing it).  If anything, all Carbine really needs to do is occupy their players' hands.  That way, everyone with an active account would be logged in at once, rather than just logging in, doing their dailies and/or raid, and then logging out for a while.  People will scrape and claw forwards for months and feel like they're making progress, what may in fact be hurting the game is that they decided to take a relatively newer WoW idea (JP and CP) as a model for an endgame currency, trying to artificially cap progress to slow the players down.  They may actually be better served looking at older models of endgame currencies, ones that didn't cap but were harder to grind up.
 
That could inform a lot of what they do.  So much of their endgame is group-based that they HAVE to look at ways not to make it easier or less grindy, but to keep people hooked on a feeling rather than trying to keep their attention by dangling some keys in front of them while they sit in the waiting room, waiting to get back to progression.
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Actually, I'm curious to know how many will know what this is and from which game it comes from. Even if they don't know the game itself, which series it comes from and what the symbols represent.
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			either Zelda or The Wheel of Time.	
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either Zelda or The Wheel of Time.
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Honestly I feel like because of the "difficult" nature of the Dungeon's old school Attunements were easier. They were just long chains and the key part is YOU COULD PUG THE "GO INTO INSTANCE" SECTIONS.(caps are for them not you lol). Overall they don't need a huge Change in Philosophy. Just tone it down a bit. The Dungeons should maintain their difficulty. I don't think forcing people to earn medals is a great idea. They are inherently more challenging than most dungeons you will encounter in most MMORPGs.
 
As far as the people who left 1st week go I don't care about them. It's the people who left at 50 they should be focused on. The ones who liked the game but hated the gate.
 
I would prefer logging in doing dailies or Raid. The lazier I can be  once I start raiding in any MMORPG the happier I am.  The Grind should end at some point. That's actually why people hated the Valor Point System in WoW in the End. It was basically a never ending grind. I hope Carbine isn't going to make that mistake with EP. At a certain point I'd only like to be focusing on Boss Attempts. Not busy work. Give me good raids and I'll give you 15 bucks a month. Deal?
 
What Wildstar will still lack for a little while is a good Signature Minigame like pet battles or all of Rifts Large Group Modes. They have housing, but housing is housing. People start throwing out things like challenges but that's just achievement hunting with a slot machine UI. Wildstar End Game is as thin as a Anorexic Crack addict.
 
My recommendation is some sort of racing for starters. You have Customizable Mounts and Zones with Hazards. It's basically building itself. Instance them throw in more Hazards. Give me a Hoverboard AND GTFO MY WAY! B)
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A lot of Wildstar's "problems" will be solved by time and content.  I mean, there are so many upsides and ideas.  They could do racing with their mounts.  They could do altered dungeon runs with random lightning strikes making the dungeon harder.  They could install veteran shiphand missions.  They could have a Protostar TV show arena where they essentially toss waves of enemies and bosses at you to give you a "random dungeon" feel.  There's a lot that will eventually be added.
 
At present, though, it's too early for that.  They have to make sure mundane shit works, like their crafting system and their attunement, before they can really start developing all-new content they didn't have pre-planned.  The first few months, if not the first year, are going to involve a lot of experimentation.  Hell, I still remember stacking spirit on my Warrior in WoW's beta (yes, really).
 
I think that's why I'm definitely sticking around that whole year.  The devs are listening, even if they aren't saying so, and they're doing what we ask.  Sometimes, as in the case of the very first server issues, that's made life more difficult.  Sometimes, it helps them a lot, as in a lot of their upcoming PVP fixes.  But what we get to do is to tell them what we like, what we don't, what needs to be changed, and what should never be touched.  So it's kind of important that we don't just complain, but also make sure Carbine knows exactly what we like and what they should not, for any reason, compromise.
 
I always worry Carbine won't be able to walk that line, but the community has been pretty adamant.  Nobody likes artificial gates.  Nobody minds working hard.  Everyone loves dungeon difficulty.  The biggest gap right now is quick, throwaway content at 50 that people can do to pass time or work towards some kind of goal.  If anything needs to be their focus, it's not really how hardcore raiding is, but what people should be doing in the meantime.  It's all well and good to have a huge endgame goal to stretch your limits, but people need those shiphand missions or little endgame events to fill the hours.
 
That'll come with time.  For now, I wouldn't mind them altering their system so that you are rewarded directly for all the time you put in, rather than trying to slow people down.  Enigma and Eugenics are in the Datascape.  There's no point in artificially gating people now, especially since most of the more mundane movement and class/LAS bugs are fixed.
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Not going to respond to all of this because I'm hungry but, THAT PROTOSTAR TV SHOW IDEA SOUNDS ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! Veteran Shiphands are a foregone conclusion. Shiphands are easily the most universally liked idea after Housing. They'll do right by fixing the gate. I think they have gotten the message. People should atleast have the opportunity to get Roflstomped. When they fix it no one is allowed to complain about hard Raids imo. We all knew that was a heavily-touted feature. White, Silver and Black Knights need to come together when it starts to happen unless of course it's coming from the "Cream of The Crop"lol. I fought to get you access. I am not going to fight for you to have it easy in there. People have been clearing GA for a bit now.
 
Me go eat now. Ug ug!
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			Some dude on Reddit postulated that Wildstar's servers can hold approximately 12.000 players per server, which is considerably more than any other MMO. Meaning that when a Wildstar server has a "low" population, that would actually mean medium or even high population in other MMO's. http://www.reddit.com/r/WildStar/comments/29z8jj/population/	
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			So add more PvE options now the PuB in dungeon is dead, looks like a good idea.	
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I've been hearing a lot of people saying they are transferring to Pergo...
 
I went to Pergo to check and see for myself whether or not everyone was exaggerating the population difference.   It's pretty damn noticeable.  Considering Pergo peaks at primetime at medium pop maybe now would be a good time to consider server merges?
 
Warbringer WAS one of the highest pop PVP servers behind Pergo.  Now it's like night and day.
 
These screenshots were taken within 5 mins of each other.  First one is on Pergo second is on Warbringer.  Clearly this isn't an accurate measure of a servers population but it's a pretty good idea.  The crafting area and the taxi on spaceport alpha have similar results.
 
I use lighter blue on my lvl 50 nameplates so see the difference between group members and non group members so the top pic all players are dark blue.  Bottom pic they're light blue.
 
Anyway the purpose of this post is I would like to have a real server population and people to play with...  I don't think I should have to pay 20 dollars for a server transfer when it's the companies responsibility to keep the servers populated.  There is more than enough reason to condense all the pvp servers to 1 server or maybe 2 if it's gonna be close to full.  Definitely don't need more than 2 at this point. 
 
Pergo
 
 
 
 
Warbringer
 
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Some dude on Reddit postulated that Wildstar's servers can hold approximately 12.000 players per server, which is considerably more than any other MMO. Meaning that when a Wildstar server has a "low" population, that would actually mean medium or even high population in other MMO's. http://www.reddit.com/r/WildStar/comments/29z8jj/population/
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			The servers are low thats for sure, Pvp queues at all tiers are becoming longer even at peak times. I was queuing a 30 - 49 earlier at 6pm eu time so prime time really and had to wait nearly 15 minutes. Usually it was 6 minutes tops. Noticed this more and more as of late.	
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Yep, this is why I rerolled on Pergo from Warbringer. The population would say medium and the city would constantly look like that. Couldn't find anyone to group with in low level areas for the 2+ quests. That "medium" population must have been on the Exile side. Luckily, my highest level character was 22 so I just rerolled. I love how the people on the high populated servers act like we're crazy for wanting server merges but Carbine has way too many servers. Keep the RP server, have 2 PvP servers, and a few PvE ones. I'm sure a merge is coming just not sure when.
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While it may be useful to merge "under performing" servers, you guys gotta realize that you're asking for a VERY large task.  You're talking about combining two "in production" databases and as someone who saw the outcome that was the "AWESOME SAUCE" SWTOR merge (Hey.. where's my guys?  They were there last night....), it's a lot of planning, resources and simple time to execute.  And even when they did plan it.. I spent 8 days trying to find where in Cyberspace my chars went.  What if a CommMgr came on and said "Okay.  We're merging, but it'll take 12 weeks."  We'd have all new threads about "If the Devs knew how to DBA, Reddit says it could easily be done in 3 days!"  If it's truly an issue, hopefully we'll get 'a way forward' from Carbine.  But don't expect it to be quick. 
 
And I swear, if my characters go missing in another merge.. I blame all of you. :D	
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let put this into perspective for all the proponents of a server merge.
 
I just spent 3 hours harvesting for my guild on WoW (yes, I still play) I saw THREE people that whole time.
 
if I went to the forums and screamed for a merge in a game of EIGHT MILLION SUBSCRIBERS I would be laughed into sometime next year.
 
but hey, only three people so the game must be dying.
 
wait for the numbers people. wait for the numbers.	
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let put this into perspective for all the proponents of a server merge.
 
I just spent 3 hours harvesting for my guild on WoW (yes, I still play) I saw THREE people that whole time.
 
if I went to the forums and screamed for a merge in a game of EIGHT MILLION SUBSCRIBERS I would be laughed into sometime next year.
 
but hey, only three people so the game must be dying.
 
wait for the numbers people. wait for the numbers.
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Pretty sure you start screaming in a Blizzard Forum, you get arrested for inciting a riot.  Place is like a mental ward.  One person screams, 40,000 other inmates start. 
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let put this into perspective for all the proponents of a server merge.
 
I just spent 3 hours harvesting for my guild on WoW (yes, I still play) I saw THREE people that whole time.
 
if I went to the forums and screamed for a merge in a game of EIGHT MILLION SUBSCRIBERS I would be laughed into sometime next year.
 
but hey, only three people so the game must be dying.
 
wait for the numbers people. wait for the numbers.
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Everyone knows that WoW players tend to stand at the City hubs while waiting for their queues to pop.
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point is... its all perception. Wildstar is new, who says if everyone wastes their time in the city.
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Or in a house, trying to make a nice interior without going insane because the Chua who created it apparently hates any form of symmetry.
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point is... its all perception. Wildstar is new, who says if everyone wastes their time in the city.
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A very skewed perception indeed then.
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I play WoW and I see people everywhere. You must be in a very rare very low pop server. Most servers have tons people.
 
In fact, in the timeless isle, rares keep dying in seconds before I can get to them because there soooo many people.	
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I play WoW and I see people everywhere. You must be in a very rare very low pop server. Most servers have tons people.
 
In fact, in the timeless isle, rares keep dying in seconds before I can get to them because there soooo many people.
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I play WoW 
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Lost me right there.
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considering the game has been out for only a couple months and not everyone is 50 and just hanging out in cities wasting time waiting for queues, what exactly is skewed?
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What is skewed is I never said anything about WS. I was commenting on your skewed perception of WoW. You said you basically went farming and didn't see anyone for hours. However, in WoW the world is so massive and there are flying mounts that it's very easy to miss players when there is a x,y, and z axis. Not to mention most players in WoW tend to be in the city hubs not so much out in the world.
 
Also to add, not everyone in WoW is 50 either and just hanging out in the cities wasting time waiting for que
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completely missed my point but thats okay ^^
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I know eh? if it wasnt for having to do things for my guild (who are all friends and most play Wildstar anyway) I wouldnt be there
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I loved it in its prime. If you play the combat system in Tera, GW2, or W*, then go back to WoW it's like trying to go back to a 56K modem after having cable. It's showing its age.
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If you play the system in Firefall, wildstar shows its age.
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Played it. Wasn't impressed.
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I have.
 
I saw entire groups leave EQ1 for Anarchy Online
 
Entire groups leave Anarchy Online for DAOC
 
Entire groups leave Anarchy Online and DAOC for Everquest 2
 
Entire groups leave Everquest 2 for World of Warcraft
 
Entire groups leave World of Warcraft for (You get the idea, and the list of people leaving WoW for newer MMO's is huge)
 
 
I won't call you a liar, but I can only assume you've just started playing MMO's.
 
 
Edit: Gaming is always like this.  It's not anything special and/or new.  As gamers we're always looking for the better-newest game, and when we find something more attractive we always jump ship.  All it takes is one influential guild leader and the entire guild will leave with him/her.
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Didn't ask if you were. The combat system in wildstar might be different from some other MMOs, but it still shows its age when you play anything faster.
 
I personally enjoy not having a jump interrupt what I'm doing.
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But it's not an MMO. It's like if tribes and planetside 2 had an ugly baby that's been in development hell for years. We're talking 2 different genres. If you don't like MMO combat that's one thing, but to pretend that firefall is an MMO is silly. That's like playing BF4 and saying the combat is vastly superior to W*. Apples to starships.
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Pretty sure I've run into way more people just leveling one character to 10 in Firefall, and grouped up with them to do thumping, then I saw in wildstar in comparable areas. Whether you like it or not, the game is indeed an MMO. If you don't understand the difference between a "modern arena" (ugh, it barely qualifies as arena but it applies) shooter like BF4 and an MMO, google will help you more than anything else.
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It's a shooter with "mmo elements". I also didn't fall for the Billy Mays commercials where he told me Oxy Clean would make my whites 10 times brighter.
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It's a shooter with "mmo elements". I also didn't fall for the Billy Mays commercials where he told me Oxy Clean would make my whites 10 times brighter.
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No, it's an MMO, shards and instances of zones and everything. 100 people in a zone instance too.
 
And what even are "mmo elements"? Seeing massive numbers of people? That makes it an MMO. Why are you struggling on this? Just move on.
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It's an MMO. It's not an MMORPG. So the comparison to Wildstar is silly. Which was my point. "I once ate an apple and the combat was better than Wildstar" which was your point.
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No, it's an MMO, shards and instances of zones and everything. 100 people in a zone instance too.
 
And what even are "mmo elements"? Seeing massive numbers of people? That makes it an MMO. Why are you struggling on this? Just move on.
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And for you.... the game JUST RELEASED YESTERDAY!!! of course you are going to see people online. Im not sure if you were here for W* release but there was literally 20+ hour queues to get into almost EVERY server. not to mention there were 500k people watching W* twitch streams. Firefall will never hit that hype or status in A MILLION lifetimes. I played firefall 2 years ago in beta and it hasnt changed practically at all. The devs soaked the hell out of the funding for VERY little updates. the game will be mediocre at best.
 
Tell me again what is the point of thumping when pvp everyone is already maxed out with the same stats? you can get new abilities and new load outs buts its all the same shit in for months on end when i played
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Behold: the phenomenon known as moving goal posts.
 
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But it's not an MMO. It's like if tribes and planetside 2 had an ugly baby that's been in development hell for years. We're talking 2 different genres. If you don't like MMO combat that's one thing, but to pretend that firefall is an MMO is silly. That's like playing BF4 and saying the combat is vastly superior to W*. Apples to starships.
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My point EXACTLY.
 
There is nothing wrong with Wildstar that a little long-range planning and short-term repairs won't fix.
 
First, ditch the "hardcore only" mentality. Don't make it EASY, don't skimp on mechanics and actual gameplay. There is NOTHING wrong with those things. Moderate the more "casual" content and change the "Medals For Lewts" to something more equitable. For God's sake, throw the fake "time gated content' in the trash and let people advance how they want.
 
And please ... learning dungeons. Less potent versions of dungeons and adventures with commensurately smaller reward. Hell, to me, seeing the content is often it's own reward. I *really* want to see Malgrave Trail. I *love everything* about Malgrave, but man, listening to people talk, you'd think it was as a big a waste of time and effort as Housing. (yes, that's a joke)
 
Catering to a less hardcore base does NOT mean changing the actual game-play mechanics. Those are what makes something "hard" or "easy" ... not hiding our AMPs and Skill Point progression behind RNG bullcrap and time-gated nonsense meant to achieve nothing except slowing people down.
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If you play the system in Firefall, wildstar shows its age.
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Seriously, man? I tried it last year (had been looking forward to it slightly) and it was crap. Have they improved it for the final, much delayed "official" launch?
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Dunno. I avoided the beta like the plague when I heard about their ceo and the bus thing. It's pretty fun for right now.
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I guess I might check it out again at some point.
But no matter how good it is now, I agree with Mysery that it's not an apt comparison. Sure, both games might be MMOs or even MMORPGs (let's stop arguing semantics for once), but Firefall is a whole lot more simplistic in terms of almost... everything. At least everything combat-related. I just don't see it as an "alternative" to Wildstar, so I also can't see it as a "less dated" version of a comparable system.
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			Firefall is a free to play game, for God's sake. Every idiot can log in, even you.	
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Carbine's doing a great job of suffocating the game.
Latest patch was just a kick to the dick for all Medics, Warriors, Stalker and Spellslingers not to mention pvp is still a *cupcake*ed up mess.
 
But I guess that's ok as long as we have one 'new' battleground that nobody is going to play in. It'll help distract from the ghost town servers >.>	
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			Heh, me and my friends rolled on Mikros BECAUSE we bet that it was going to be a lower pop server and less queue.  And you know what?  We were right.   We like it just fine there.	
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			On topic: I saw nothing in today's patch that will make the people with waning interest or anyone that was taking a wait and see approach, login. It's time to merge. I'm through at this point. The game isn't bad but it's probably going to be a whatcouldhavebeen in it's current state. Barring any significant news that would lead me to believe that Carbine is making changes within the game that are moving it in the right direction, I will not be posting much, if at all.Thanks to the friends and foes that have made for interesting debates.	
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On topic: I saw nothing in today's patch that will make the people with waning interest or anyone that was taking a wait and see approach, login. It's time to merge. I'm through at this point. The game isn't bad but it's probably going to be a whatcouldhavebeen in it's current state. Barring any significant news that would lead me to believe that Carbine is making changes within the game that are moving it in the right direction, I will not be posting much, if at all.
 
Thanks to the friends and foes that have made for interesting debates.
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I'm confused about a few things...
   When people ask for server merges,.are they referring to the NA or EU ones?  Or are they all the same? From my perspective, the majority of 'empty server' rages are from players on the EU side.  And I believe they even use separate licenses too.
   
   Will all the non-English speaking servers be merged with English ones? Is that what is being asked for?
 
I notice they separate the German and French forums.  
 
I guess I am just wondering how the servers are set up,..and which , or all , of them are being debated on for merging.
 
 
Edit:
 
 
I just googled 'server merges' and this came up,..
 
 
 
be careful what ya ask for! :p	
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I'm willing to stick it out with this game because it's the only one that offers what it does (vertical progression with a decent combat system, and relatively large community).  That being said, it seems they're making a lot of mistakes of first time MMO developers.  I really feel that the barren servers is what 'killed' SWTOR.  Yes, it had a lot of other problems, but there's nothing more disheartening then being forced to play on an empty server.  
 
I understand that server merges this soon after release have negative connotations and we'd see a bunch of free-to-play predictions with claims the game is dying, but that's just the nature with the genre today.  Maybe they're trying to avoid that press for a little while, but they can't actually believe that the empty servers are going to fill back up.  I also understand that merging servers is no easy task; Really though, I just don't want to believe that they're milking the paid transfers.  If this keeps up much longer, though,  it's going to be difficult to justify the delay.	
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			Does anyone know what the lowest-pop NA server/faction is? I have 50s on Avatus and Stormtalon (formerly Pergo) and I would like to make an alt there to witness this.. "empty server" phenomenon for myself.  :P	
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Does anyone know what the lowest-pop NA server/faction is? I have 50s on Avatus and Stormtalon (formerly Pergo) and I would like to make an alt there to witness this.. "empty server" phenomenon for myself.  :P
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Here's Illium on Mikros at 9:30 pm pacific time on a thursday night
 
There's 4 people by the AH/Bank
 	
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			Idk why people complained about server queue's. I used to love server queue's in WoW. They gave a real sense of a bustling and vibrant community. It was a sign of success if a game had server queue's.	
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Edit:
 
 
I just googled 'server merges' and this came up,..
 
 
 
be careful what ya ask for! :P
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Here's Illium on Mikros at 9:30 pm pacific time on a thursday night
 
There's 4 people by the AH/Bank
 
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Heyy, that looks exactly like Widow during prime time lol
But there's no need to fret right? server population is perfect -_-
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Chua think depend on what called "perfect":
 
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Anyway the purpose of this post is I would like to have a real server population and people to play with...  I don't think I should have to pay 20 dollars for a server transfer when it's the companies responsibility to keep the servers populated.  There is more than enough reason to condense all the pvp servers to 1 server or maybe 2 if it's gonna be close to full.  Definitely don't need more than 2 at this point. 
 
Pergo
 
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And right after that all 11 logged off to come back the next day for the reset right?
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Idk why people complained about server queue's. I used to love server queue's in WoW. They gave a real sense of a bustling and vibrant community. It was a sign of success if a game had server queue's.
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wait what? did I really just read that it's the companies responsibility to give you people to play with when on head start you guys were crying about 4 - 5 hours que on pergo and demanded in hundreds of topics the opening of more servers? Do you guys understand that merging lets say 4 - 6 newly opened servers to pergo will end up in que times again? Someone wake me when people take their brain out of the basket.
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Before you insult others, try and follow your own advice first.
 
Nobody said merge ALL servers. They can merge servers in pairs first. Or in threes. Nobody said take all servers and add them to Pergo. If Pergo is fine, leave it alone. They do know what's going on with their own servers, and what the activity levels are like, you know. And if they take 4-6 servers that are totally empty, and merge them, they might get one decent server out of it, and still keep it queue-free.
 
I don't know why people like you are looking at mergers as a binary state: dead or queue. It doesn't have to be either one. It can be balanced, with decent pop and no queues.
 
And YES, it's the company's responsibility to provide a playable environment for a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER GAME. If I'm not seeing massive amounts of players in the world with me, I'm not going to pay you $15/mo for the privilege of playing your single player game.  They are not REQUIRED to provide it (read the TOS, they can shut the server down for a week and be well within their rights), but it's just common sense. If you don't please your subscribers, your subscribers will leave.
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			Did someone say SWTOR?	
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Before you insult others, try and follow your own advice first.
 
Nobody said merge ALL servers. They can merge servers in pairs first. Or in threes. Nobody said take all servers and add them to Pergo. If Pergo is fine, leave it alone. They do know what's going on with their own servers, and what the activity levels are like, you know. And if they take 4-6 servers that are totally empty, and merge them, they might get one decent server out of it, and still keep it queue-free.
 
I don't know why people like you are looking at mergers as a binary state: dead or queue. It doesn't have to be either one. It can be balanced, with decent pop and no queues.
 
And YES, it's the company's responsibility to provide a playable environment for a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER GAME. If I'm not seeing massive amounts of players in the world with me, I'm not going to pay you $15/mo for the privilege of playing your single player game.  They are not REQUIRED to provide it (read the TOS, they can shut the server down for a week and be well within their rights), but it's just common sense. If you don't please your subscribers, your subscribers will leave.
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You chose a server that was newly created hoping for a miracle or a high populated server at the end. Didn't work out that way now you come to the forums and demand a server merge because that's what you are paying for.
 
That's exactly not what you're paying for. I mean I understand you kids came from WoW and other games that have high population after 8 years of the game being released and demand this kind of feature on a game that's 2 months old (beta not included) but that's not how online gaming works.
 
The statement about "I don't see people when I am online" is as much BS as the response from the Dev saying "we did everything possible to test the current patch but as it went live something broke". You know that and I know that. If it makes you sleep better at night then sure it's a valid excuse but defiantly not the facts.
 
Now going with the logic of the OP again, if for example Pergo is high pop during all times possible of the day, then merging 1 - 4 hell even 35 server to that high pop server would lead to queue times regardless on how many servers you're adding to it. A 20 minute queue is already to much for some people to handle despite 5 hours. So again, just because you pay for the service to access digital content someone else created and allows you to use for your temporary entertainment doesn't mean you're paying for high populated servers or the servers at all.
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You chose a server that was newly created hoping for a miracle or a high populated server at the end. Didn't work out that way now you come to the forums and demand a server merge because that's what you are paying for.
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Merge low pop servers. Create more content with less time gating.
It's not rocket science.
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if for example Pergo is high pop during all times possible of the day, then merging 1 - 4 hell even 35 server to that high pop server would lead to queue times
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People were HIGHLY encouraged by Carbine to go play on the newly created servers, and to take their friends as well. Some people trusted them and did that, and now they're screwed.
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I'll take queues over tumbleweeds any day.
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Shame the screaming, self-entitled masses didn't feel that same way.
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Uh, they bought a game, they felt "entitled" to be able to play it...yeah, what's the issue with that? 
 
The players who wanted to get on and play at launch are not responsible for the fact that the game's retention rate has been low. If Carbine told them to go away and come back in two weeks, it would have been a disaster, with people demanding refunds in large angry mobs with pitchforks. 
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Shame the screaming, self-entitled masses didn't feel that same way.
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 Maybe cause validation of other people liking what they like or other such idiocy.  Who knows.
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For the 50th time: MMOs who can't keep up a certain population shut down. This is even more of a risk with NCsoft titles.
People are worried about their continued ability to play the game, not their personal validation.
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People were HIGHLY encouraged by Carbine to go play on the newly created servers, and to take their friends as well. Some people trusted them and did that, and now they're screwed.
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that's not whats requested. People want the lower pop servers merged to the already high pop servers because they are entitled to have friends to play with apparently.
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No.
For the 50th time: MMOs who can't keep up a certain population shut down. This is even more of a risk with NCsoft titles.
People are worried about their continued ability to play the game, not their personal validation.
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I missed your previous 49
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I'll take queues over tumbleweeds any day.
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 ;)
 
As for the rest of your post: Agreed.
 
And yeah, low server pop does not equal low game pop. That's where I can meet you halfway between your "customers are panicky/fickle idiots" and my "no they have valid concerns".
Their fear of shutdown is valid, but their criteria for determining the global state of the game are often subjective and sometimes invalid.
 
The problem is that in these cases it doesn't matter, as they will leave either way once a certain level of "perceived deadness" is reached.
In a way it's kind of like a self fulfilling prophecy. "Oh no the game is dying => I better bail (and thus contribute to its death)."
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			Stormtalon, one of the higher populated servers is a barren wasteland on lower levels	
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I think Carbine may have overestimated the draw this game would have.
I wasn't around at launch, what where the numbers like then?
 
That being said, Server merges wouldn't do my realm any good as I am on the Oceanic realm Myrcalus and there's only one of them.
Maybe free character transfers could be given to that realm only for oceanic players could be done if merges where to happen.
 
Who am I kidding it's probably 60% yank anyway, everyone can come.
 
Edit: because words are hard...
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			resurrecting and signed	
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I'd at least like to see some interactivity for map zones between the servers of same rule sets (pve / pvp) to get the group quests in x and y zone easier to do, same with R12 in malgrave etc.
 
Rift did that very well. Steal it.	
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Indeed, there are games with server solution workarounds and tech in place that allows for seamless connections/server unification. It would be a shame not to jump on that as soon as possible. It's called for, people are not complaining just to complain, their ability to enjoy the game is already affected. 
 
This is not a situation that was caused by players - it was to be expected for the servers to get hammered during release period, and it was to be expected for the population to dial down after. No, Carbine couldn't have left people stuck in half a day long queues then, just as they can't leave people playing on servers that have greatly diminished populations now. Doing one and not following through is doing a half-arsed job.
 
Solutions exist, they should really pick one and go with it. Separated servers are a thing of the past - and Carbine sadly don't have the luxury of letting people fester in ghost towns for years before doing something about it. Most people aren't going to bother, they're much more likely to simply leave, because it's too much of a hassle to stay on top of the realm population game. No one wants to have to re-roll or transfer or start from scratch - and equally no one wants to stay stuck somewhere with their continued ability to play the game as they wish being compromised. It's bad gaming experience, especially if you have to dish out additional cash for something that should be provided to you as a part of the service. Doing something about this is not admitting defeat, it's staying in touch with their own product, and offering the best customer experience. That's not failure, that's being smart and running a good business.
 
Servers should be adapting to players, not the other way around. Period.	
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			Well said above	
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			Well said Mr. Bane.	
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Well said Mr. Bane.
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			Thanks guys, trying not to derail the topic now though. Putting a serious face back on. :P Also, I find the above hilarious, because I'm a girly girl. When I said I squealed in delight while discovering WildStar, I really wasn't joking. ^^	
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Stormtalon, one of the higher populated servers is a barren wasteland on lower levels
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They should just be honest and clear and mention how they had enough servers at launch but to alleviate queues, new servers and transfers were made available.
 
And merge the "added" servers into similar ruleset servers.
 
 
On the other hand they are probably making a killing off of paid server transfers.	
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On the other hand they are probably making a killing off of paid server transfers.
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Short term gains, long term negative consequences.
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Just like opening extra servers at launch.  :lol:
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			/signed	
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If they hadn't, how many would have given up trying to log in completely and tossed the game away without trying out of sheer frustration?
 
Launch and now are two entirely different situations and there really is no excuse to not handle them as such.
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If they hadn't, how many would have given up trying to log in completely and tossed the game away without trying out of sheer frustration?
 
Launch and now are two entirely different situations and there really is no excuse to not handle them as such.
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Stormtalon, one of the higher populated servers is a barren wasteland on lower levels
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Thing is, I remember playing TBC on a high pop, original server, and making a draenei a few weeks after release it was just as sparsely populated as Avatus Exile side is now. There were a few people in the Draenei zone and then less and less as you went along. Avatus Exile side is supposed to be low pop, but its the same as I remember TBC high pop server leveling to be, back in the day. Galeras for some reason is still a happening spot.
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Is all assumption and "what if".
Chua just say: either way, Humans would have complained.
Carbine took calculated risk and opened more servers.
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Here's another Illium shot on Mikros, on a saturday at 2pm eastern
 
Can you spot the 7 people around the AH?
 	
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Here's another Illium shot on Mikros, on a saturday at 2pm eastern
 
Can you spot the 7 people around the AH?
 
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Why so defensive? I was just saying opening extra servers at launch ended up being "Short term gains, long term negative consequences."
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The point is, there are better ways of handling servers and population, many posts on the subject in this thread, I don't want to sound repetitive. Just stating the obvious though, new servers were pretty much a necessity for a smooth launch. Should they have made it a temporary solution? Absolutely. MMO release should be handled as an isolated event, because that's what it is - which should have been prepared for as an isolated event, and not the normal realm condition as is still stands today.
 
Again, the bottom line is whether people's ability to enjoy the game to the fullest has already been hindered and when or if Carbine plan to act on it.
 
There's nothing personal here.
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the better and more immediate way of handling population is to squish it back together because what people are logging in to see right now is exactly what the screenshot above is posed.  Unless we are lucky enough to have chosen pergo.
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			They're not gonna server merge while they can still get people's money for transfering	
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So I just counted 7 topics on the front page about server merges.  The fact that they haven't even addressed the issue is why I'm very apprehensive about this game's future.  I love the game, and there really aren't any alternatives for me, but Carbine could do a much.....much better job communicating with the community.  
 
I hate to accuse them of milking the paid transfers, but what else are we supposed to believe at this point?  
 
Edit: If they have addressed the issue and I'm just oblivious to it, please direct me to the post.  	
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My guild just transferred to Pergo (which I will henceforth refer to as the promise land).  
 
Did you know?  My first night in the promise land there was a massive dominion parade around illium made entirely of players /following eachother.   
 
In the promise land, the economy is actually healthy as well.   
 
Its madness I tell you... Madness. 	
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			I'm somewhat reticent toward rewarding them for their poor server population management by paying them for a transfer.	
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{| class="blockquote"
So I just counted 7 topics on the front page about server merges.  The fact that they haven't even addressed the issue is why I'm very apprehensive about this game's future.  I love the game, and there really aren't any alternatives for me, but Carbine could do a much.....much better job communicating with the community.  
 
I hate to accuse them of milking the paid transfers, but what else are we supposed to believe at this point?  
 
Edit: If they have addressed the issue and I'm just oblivious to it, please direct me to the post.  
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I'm somewhat reticent toward rewarding them for their poor server population management by paying them for a transfer.
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			My server Bloodsworn Exile side after dop 2 is now REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY dead.	
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I'm somewhat reticent toward rewarding them for their poor server population management by paying them for a transfer.
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			Caving into the demands of the masses does not mean good server population management.  Infact, caving into the demand of the masses, improperly interrupting internal metrics, would further support poor server population management.	
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Everyone screaming for server merges, yet have no idea what goes into it. Server merges only 2 months is a death sentence for the game. The bigger picture that has to be seen is that this game is a business, which has investors. Server merges imply the game is doing poorly and losing customers in droves, and those extra servers will now go unused. From a business standpoint, it's far better to have a dead server gradually have everyone pay to transfer off it, or quit, than it is to do a server merge and show investors that the game is doing poorly.
 
The reality of the situation is, the game is fine, the mmorpg genre is dying overall. You can go on the WoW forums right now and here people screaming about wanting server merges too.	
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Everyone screaming for server merges, yet have no idea what goes into it. Server merges only 2 months is a death sentence for the game. The bigger picture that has to be seen is that this game is a business, which has investors. Server merges imply the game is doing poorly and losing customers in droves, and those extra servers will now go unused. From a business standpoint, it's far better to have a dead server gradually have everyone pay to transfer off it, or quit, than it is to do a server merge and show investors that the game is doing poorly.
 
The reality of the situation is, the game is fine, the mmorpg genre is dying overall. You can go on the WoW forums right now and here people screaming about wanting server merges too.
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			Lightspire EU Exile side dead Low pop infact most are low pop. Like it or not regardless of the Low=High most server talk ,logging on to see all realms EU low pop and seeing barely anyone ingame makes you think they are talking outta their backside. Mains 30 now but havent logged in for maybe a week game feels dead sadly merges would be the answer ,megaserver or wwhatever. I actually went back to GW2 cos of the last patch after a few months off and with the server merge its thriving and makes you want to play. Lots of chat people about thats why i play an mmo . Maybe i ll try Hazak i hear its busy but im not a PVP player so dont see why i should just to find a more active crowd. Truth is people dont want to play on a empty or percieved empty server and wont hang about.	
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Players asked for more servers, Devs made it happen... 
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			What other games have done in the past is allowing people to make free char transfers to specific destinations for a month or 2.  After that, developers perform the automatic transfer to the realm of their choosing for the rest (non active chars), and remove the server.	
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@Ganntak: I re-rolled on Hazak and I am enjoying actually seeing people around. PvP is really not an issue, an occasional skirmish happens every now and again, but nothing tragic. If I had stayed on my previous realm, I would have just stopped playing.
 
Anyway, what Carbine need to do, and I fully realize it's not going to happen, is give us an assessment of the situation (since they can actually base their decisions on actual numbers) and a heads up of what's to come. Some validation of our concerns would go a long way. At the end of the day, most people would feel better just for having been heard.
 
But it's not going to happen because they answer to the corporation and stockholders first, and players second. So we can keep speculating, panicking and preparing for doomsday, not in any particular order. (Yes, that was a jest.)	
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@Ganntak: I re-rolled on Hazak and I am enjoying actually seeing people around. PvP is really not an issue, an occasional skirmish happens every now and again, but nothing tragic. If I had stayed on my previous realm, I would have just stopped playing.
 
Anyway, what Carbine need to do, and I fully realize it's not going to happen give us an assessment of the situation (since they can actually base their decisions on actual numbers) and a heads up of what's to come. Some validation of our concerns would go a long way. At the end of the day, most people would feel better just for having been heard.
 
But it's not going to happen because they answer to the corporation and stockholders first, and players second. So we can keep speculating, panicking and preparing for doomsday, not in any particular order. (Yes, that was a jest.)
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			23 pages in this threat alone and about 15 other threads on the same issue today.  Getting a dev response would cool a LOT of heads	
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{| class="blockquote"
23 pages in this threat alone and about 15 other threads on the same issue today.  Getting a dev response would cool a LOT of heads
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{| class="blockquote"
23 pages in this threat alone and about 15 other threads on the same issue today.  Getting a dev response would cool a LOT of heads
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Lightspire EU Exile side dead Low pop infact most are low pop. Like it or not regardless of the Low=High most server talk ,logging on to see all realms EU low pop and seeing barely anyone ingame makes you think they are talking outta their backside. Mains 30 now but havent logged in for maybe a week game feels dead sadly merges would be the answer ,megaserver or wwhatever. I actually went back to GW2 cos of the last patch after a few months off and with the server merge its thriving and makes you want to play. Lots of chat people about thats why i play an mmo . Maybe i ll try Hazak i hear its busy but im not a PVP player so dont see why i should just to find a more active crowd. Truth is people dont want to play on a empty or percieved empty server and wont hang about.
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Chua doubt is going to get response on topic like this. Could try twitter and Reddit, but not much hope.
Also, just cause dev no reply to issue , not mean not listening.
Listening means hearing, not responding.
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Listening, really listening, is a two-way street.  Its active.  With zero response, you don't know if the lights are on or if you are talking to someone in a coma.
 
Response is a big deal with this particular issue.  I for one am having problems planning my future in wildstar to the point that its almost completely turned me away from the game.
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No, absolutely not.
Listening, really listening, is nothing more then hear what the other side has to say and formulate a response AFTER you have analyzed and understood what is being said.
And that's not done by responding in the heat of the moment.
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No, absolutely not.
Listening, really listening, is nothing more then hear what the other side has to say and formulate a response AFTER you have analyzed and understood what is being said.
And that's not done by responding in the heat of the moment.
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If I were to sit there listening to my wife talking to me without giving any form of response I would be dead. All it takes Olivar is for one dev to come onto the forums (Not Reddit or Twitter of Faceache) and say "Hey guys, we are aware of your concerns and are discussing the situation". Thats all it takes. They are confirming that they are aware of our concerns, yet they havent said what they are doing. It shows that they are at least listening. Your on Lightspire so you must have seen the steep decline on there.  It is only going to get worse without any official word on the matter.
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			24 pages and 22k views. I wonder how much longer they can pretend to ignore the proverbial elephant in the forums.	
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24 pages and 22k views. I wonder how much longer they can pretend to ignore the proverbial elephant in the forums.
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I think when it crosses the line to more views than players in the game, it will cause a singularity that will collapse the forums.
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just make an alt anywhere imo.
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Another Monday, another week of hoping Carbine will react to a few player concerns. Keeping my fingers crossed.
 
{| class="blockquote"
 Is there a server that is more dead than Avatus where I can go to encounter this "dead server" phenomenon? I'm genuinely curious and want to see a "dead dead" server for myself.
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{| class="blockquote"
Another Monday, another week of hoping Carbine will react to a few player concerns. Keeping my fingers crossed.
 
 
I've read many people complain about Rowsdower and Bloodsworn, maybe Warbringer.
But the problem seems worse on EU side. We got even more servers in total, plus the population is more fragmented due to languages.
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I mean honestly, looking at the Rowsdower subforum you guys are totally fine :D
Guild recruitment subforum on Rowsdower has 13 active threads, Archon doesn't even have 13 active guilds. (Exaggerating probably, but you get the point.)	
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{| class="blockquote"
I mean honestly, looking at the Rowsdower subforum you guys are totally fine :D
Guild recruitment subforum on Rowsdower has 13 active threads, Archon doesn't even have 13 active guilds. (Exaggerating probably, but you get the point.)
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I don't think anyone expects it to happen overnight.  From a technical standpoint, server merges require a lot of work.  However, at the very least, we need some type of official response from Carbine.  
 
I saw the same thing happen to SWTOR, and while it wasn't the main culprit of the game's demise, it surely didn't help.  It was Bioware's first MMO, and it wasn't a huge surprise.  I just wish Carbine could learn from the mistakes of another first-time MMO developer, instead of repeating them.  	
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			I like to see more rp servers. Our seem to be the most pop on the weekends ....Well it's the only rp server This game has.	
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For those of us fortunate enough to be proficient in a beautiful language like German:
 
Community dude over there said they're watching the developments, but nothing will change short term, as least as far as German server merges are concerned.
 
Rest of the post is a collection of arguments we've seen on this forum from many parties (low != dead, it's summer, it's post launch, this happens to every MMO, etc.).	
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