107953-the-nexus-report-nerfing-the-attunement

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Preface: Sure, I'm a tryhard. I'm a hardcore fanboy. I'm an idiot. I'm a masochist. etc. etc.
 
After watching the nexus report today, I'm completely and utterly disheartened.
The one part of this game that made me love it so much was the difficulty.
 
Without a doubt, this is one of the hardest MMO's I've played to date (10 years in MMO experience).
During the nexus report, a single statement about the current state of the attunement process left me speechless...
 
 
"We are dropping the timers so that players now only have to complete Bronze medals in order to satisfy that portion of the attunement."
 
 
What does this mean for the rest of us? 
Those of us that put countless hours into bugged out Vet Dungeon bosses to acquire Silver medals.
Bragging rights?
 
 
And what does it mean for the future? 
To be honest, it's not hard to see how any Jim, John, Joe, or Jane are going to finish the attunement, now.
Bronze medals are a joke - if you can complete a dungeon, you have the capability to earn a bronze medal: all you need to do is click on shiny items.
This means that groups can spend entire nights, in 1 instance of a Vet Dungeon, completing the attunement requirement.
 
How does this prepare those who aren't yet attuned for raids?
How could making the attunement process easier possibly make those who aren't attuned MORE prepared for raid?
Now, instead of having a very small portion of skilled players who are attuned, we're going to have a massive entity of players who are attuned, and completely clueless.
What step of the attunement you were on was easily the best way for guilds to quickly weed out those who were not up to par during the recruitment process - now any Joe Schmoe can be attuned.
 
What happens when the raids are "too hard"? Do we nerf them too?
GA is difficult. Not the most difficult raid I've ever done, but it requires a serious effort, skill, effective communication, and doing your homework on the boss fights before hand.
So what happens when Joe Schmoe, who now thinks he is entitled to whatever the *cupcake* he wants out of the game, starts the QQ campaign that is "The raids are too hard! Nerf them! Nerf them!".
What do we do then, Carbine? If we're going based off of a track record, it looks like we'll be expecting a nerf to that content as well.
 
 
Of course, I realize that any MMO needs casual players in order to keep it afloat - at the end of the day, this is a business, and a business needs to make revenue/profits in order to keep itself alive.
However, there is a fine line between "Content X is too hard for me to complete" and "I am too lazy/non-committal/entitled/unskilled to complete content X".
 
There has been, and will continue to be, plenty of content for the causal players of the Wildstar universe - which, granted, a large portion of is currently bugged.
But rather than nerfing the content that your "hardcore" crowd enjoyed, why not just fix the content that is currently bugged for the casual members?
Or, simply create a whole new branch of content altogether for the casual crowd, and leave the raids/attunements/etc. completely alone?
 
TL;DR And so it begins - the dumbing down of content to cater to the casual player.
 
 
Edit: Guys, there is one simple question that I have as a direct result of this change. This is my largest concern with this attunement change -
 
If all people have to do is complain that something is too hard to see it nerfed - what's going to happen to the raid content when those players, who couldn't finish attunement until this nerf, hit the wall in GA? Will content be nerfed then?	
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They're getting rid of a timer without nerfing the actual content. That's why I'm ok with this change. Raids aren't being dumbed down since those aren't timed anyway. People will still bash themselves against the spiky brick wall that is GA, there will just be a lot more people. If they can't hang with that hardcore content then they'll stop running it. How is that different than stopping at the silvers? At least now people think they have a chance. ;)
 
My only concern is when this actually happens.	
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While I can appreciate the silver requirement; bronze is more in line with what you would actually expect from a raid. You are not on a timer in a raid and learning the fights as you get in there is an essential part of the experience which is necessarily absent from doing silver/gold runs in dungeons.
 
In short, bronze runs are more like raids than silver runs.	
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While I can appreciate the silver requirement; bronze is more in line with what you would actually expect from a raid. You are not on a timer in a raid and learning the fights as you get in there is an essential part of the experience which is necessarily absent from doing silver/gold runs in dungeons.
 
In short, bronze runs are more like raids than silver runs.
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			I'm ok without the timers. If this tones down the QQ then let it happen.	
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They're getting rid of a timer without nerfing the actual content. That's why I'm ok with this change. Raids aren't being dumbed down since those aren't timed anyway. People will still bash themselves against the spiky brick wall that is GA, there will just be a lot more people. If they can't hang with that hardcore content then they'll stop running it. How is that different than stopping at the silvers? At least now people think they have a chance. ;)
 
My only concern is when this actually happens.
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While I can appreciate the silver requirement; bronze is more in line with what you would actually expect from a raid. You are not on a timer in a raid and learning the fights as you get in there is an essential part of the experience which is necessarily absent from doing silver/gold runs in dungeons.
 
In short, bronze runs are more like raids than silver runs.
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That's not true at all. 
The GA fights are 100% on timers - they're called "Enrage".
 
X-89's timer: Kill the boss before all the platforms are gone, or you wipe.
Kuralak's Timer: Kill the boss before her 5th rotation through the egg phases, or you wipe.
Phage Maw's Timer: Kill him before he goes up into the air a 3rd time, or wipe.
Prototypes' Timer: 11 minutes before the bosses beat the living shit out of you and you wipe.
 
...need I continue?
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			I don't agree.  What that means is the game can retain a larger portion of the community without removing what is still difficult content.  Raids don't have timers, so why does attunement need them?  I applaud this latest Nexus Report, I think it backs up the "Devs are Listening" and hopefully will make the majority of those vocal complainers happy :)	
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I see the silver requirement as a retard check - Now we will have retards (more retards) in the raids.
 
Next they are gonna nerf the imbument on the legacy weapons to silver dungeons, I'm sure.
 
So much for wanting a HARD MMO.	
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			Casuals are ruining the game... They whined about the attunement and they got it. I really belive there will be a plenty of topics like "NERF KURALAK WTF CANT KILL TOO MANY EGGZZZ" in future. It is the first call. So the game wont be better than WoW after all nerfs. Please keep casuals away from raid content, just separate casual and hardcore content. I still have hopes this wont happen but I doubt it	
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			Yea, it was so difficult to climb the wall in STL to beat the timer, hiding in the corner for Slavemaster Drokk to glitch the bots, and to glitch out two bosses in Skullcano for silver.  Not to mention all the crazy stuff you can do in SSM to speed it up.  Now that most of this stuff has been fixed, its most likely harder to do the dungeons now than it was back when you did them...	
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			Yes, the content is still hard. Although, I do sort of wish they'd found more of a middle ground--for instance, someone had floated the idea of having to complete them with a certain number of 'lives' for instance.	
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That's not true at all. 
The GA fights are 100% on timers - they're called "Enrage".
 
X-89's timer: Kill the boss before all the platforms are gone, or you wipe.
Kuralak's Timer: Kill the boss before her 5th rotation through the egg phases, or you wipe.
Phage Maw's Timer: Kill him before he goes up into the air a 3rd time, or wipe.
Prototypes' Timer: 11 minutes before the bosses beat the living shit out of you and you wipe.
 
...need I continue?
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Raiders are crying that their numbers are dwindling yet only log in to raid and don't really help new people attune (not all raiders of coarse).
 
Knowing how to skip and exploit content in dungeons doesn't really demonstate that people are ready for raiding.
 
Not exactly sure why this is a problem.	
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I can see your point OP and I myself was a little bit disappointed hearing that silver medal won't be required anymore. Because I think people were complaining about other parts of the attunement process. So I'm a bit confused why this one was targeted.
 
I could have seen them enabling that you can do the attunement steps out of order like some people wished for. Or reducing the reputation grind etc.
 
All in all this change doesn't make me go "OMG CASUALS ARE RUINING THE GAME" because like already mentioned the content isn't being nerfd, it is made more accessible.	
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That's not true at all. 
The GA fights are 100% on timers - they're called "Enrage".
 
X-89's timer: Kill the boss before all the platforms are gone, or you wipe.
Kuralak's Timer: Kill the boss before her 5th rotation through the egg phases, or you wipe.
Phage Maw's Timer: Kill him before he goes up into the air a 3rd time, or wipe.
Prototypes' Timer: 11 minutes before the bosses beat the living shit out of you and you wipe.
 
...need I continue?
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			They're getting rid of a timer without nerfing the actual content. If you like this kind of difficulty (TIMERS), go to a casino. At best, they could just increase the timers.	
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They have stood by their guns and not nerfed CONTENT, amid tons of screams to do so. Removing the timer is a good step I think. There will still be an elite brotherhood of sorts. It just now shifts to those that cleared GA instead of those that have zoned in.
 
I agree that CONTENT should not be dumbed down to more casual players, but changes like this are good for the over all health of the game and is a shot in the arm for the pool of raiders.	
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Maybe they should increase the chance to get epics (moreso than they already did) for Silver and Gold Dungeons to compensate.
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The most they should have done (I think they shouldnt have dumbed ANYTHING down though) but the most they should have done was add more time to the timer, give 10 - 20 more minutes for each dungeon instead of just taking out the timer completely..
 
I made a post way back then about hoping they never nerf the dungeons... this even if its not a content nerf.. is a nerf.. you are essentially lifting restricting and giving people the mentality that if they complain enough about difficulty level because they are so stuck in past MMOs and how they cater to the casuals..that theyll get what they want by complaining more about stuff they should have just tried harder to do... Learned.. and improved on..
 
Well... lazy people.. you win, you really have won in this regard.. Let the self-entitled bulldozers reign ....	
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They're getting rid of a timer without nerfing the actual content. That's why I'm ok with this change. Raids aren't being dumbed down since those aren't timed anyway. People will still bash themselves against the spiky brick wall that is GA, there will just be a lot more people. If they can't hang with that hardcore content then they'll stop running it. How is that different than stopping at the silvers? At least now people think they have a chance. ;)
 
My only concern is when this actually happens.
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They're getting rid of a timer without nerfing the actual content. If you like this kind of difficulty (TIMERS), go to a casino. At best, they could just increase the timers.
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The most they should have done (I think they shouldnt have dumbed ANYTHING down though) but the most they should have done was add more time to the timer, give 10 - 20 more minutes for each dungeon instead of just taking out the timer completely..
 
I made a post way back then about hoping they never nerf the dungeons... this even if its not a content nerf.. is a nerf.. you are essentially lifting restricting and giving people the mentality that if they complain enough about difficulty level because they are so stuck in past MMOs and how they cater to the casuals..that theyll get what they want by complaining more about stuff they should have just tried harder to do... Learned.. and improved on..
 
Well... lazy people.. you win, you really have won in this regard.. Let the self-entitled bulldozers reign ....
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Timers are there for a reason, because taking all the time in the world to do something makes it easy, its suppose to give a sense of urgency, and keeps people on their toes. It also helps the learning process for people that ACTUALLY want to learn and have the capacity to.
 
Timers for dungeons for attunement were important, and taking it out was ridiculous..
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That's a good point, definitely valid. But my problem is the fact that attunements have always been that kind of "Right of passage", you know?
You spent time, effort, long hours, studying, etc. to get that attunement done. But with it nerfed, it doesn't mean anything.
 
And yes, guilds will still hit the brick wall of GA's trash with a loud "THUD!" - but what happens when the QQ starts up about how hard GA is?
They QQ'd about the attunement being hard -> attunement was nerfed.
I think it's logical to follow the same pattern later on down the road.
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			People keep misquoting it.  The timers are still present and required for silver.  Only the attunement has changed.  If you have the achievement for silver STL/KV/w/e it will still be worth the same after this change...  If you really really want to keep the "bads" out of your raids simply get them to link (can you link achievements in this game?) their vet silver achievements.	
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Well I have to say, the QQ of "hardcores" is even more entertaining than the QQ of people who think content is too hard.
So it's all good.	
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Timers are there for a reason, because taking all the time in the world to do something makes it easy, its suppose to give a sense of urgency, and keeps people on their toes. It also helps the learning process for people that ACTUALLY want to learn and have the capacity to.
 
Timers for dungeons for attunement were important, and taking it out was ridiculous..
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People on both sides of the fence are crying here.
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This. Or they could fix veterans (massive skipping in SSM, skip boss mechanics) and/or increase timer.
 
The only difficulty related to silver dungeons nowadays is that there are too many random factors and too many skipping mechanisms. It is not difficulty at all. It's just random casino.
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Timers are a horrible mechanic, they should put i a Death counter instead. You aren't great because you beat a timer. I'll be nice and say roughly 7/10 groups that beat the timers did it by terrain exploiting or skipping content.
 
There's nothing good or hard about that.	
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Didn't read the thread. Barely read the OP. Don't care.
 
What I do care is this step is in the right direction. Accessibility is the watch-word of the day - and I am very glad Carbine has seen the light and making the Endgame portion more *accessible* to others.
 
Yay, progress! 	
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Attunement was never a supposed to be a proper challenge though. And the silver being busted to bronze is the only thing about the attunement process being changed. The only difference between a bronze and a silver run is knowing which mobs to skip and how to most efficiently get around the instance; those things have nothing to do with raiding.
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Well I have to say, the QQ of "hardcores" is even more entertaining than the QQ of people who think content is too hard.
So it's all good.
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It doesn't matter how much time you have if you can't kill the bosses. Raiding isn't about doing it fast, it's about doing it right.
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It's not how I'd have done it, but I can't say I disagree with the move in the short term.  It's a quick way to fix the problem.
 
I can't see this being a long-term solution, but just making bronze the attunement necessity seems to work.  At least people can't complain about the timers being in the way of raid attunement, but they still have to clear attunement.	
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Timers are there for a reason, because taking all the time in the world to do something makes it easy, its suppose to give a sense of urgency, and keeps people on their toes. It also helps the learning process for people that ACTUALLY want to learn and have the capacity to.
 
Timers for dungeons for attunement were important, and taking it out was ridiculous..
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Reading through this thread I realized that they can't make anyone happy. 
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What? Are you having a laugh?
Of course attunement was supposed to be a challenge! The whole purpose of the attunement is to make sure those who are raid-ready, actually possess the skill and ability to be such!
 
And that's not the only difference between Bronze and Silver - not knowing how to do a boss would cause you not to get silver.
If you wipe on a boss, chances are you're not getting Silver.
 
The Silver timers required you to be exceptional for that period of time - why is that too much to ask?
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There should never have been a fence to begin with, everyone should have worked together to learn what is already VERY POSSIBLE
 
FOr people who are raiding already (Guild im in) once you go back to a dungeon (What seemed to be sooo hard at the time) now seem easy.. we can get silver without an issue now.. because we learned it.. we know the mechanics.. we know the run, we have the gear.
 
Its the SAME Thing when you finally get to dungeons and you go back to adventures (that may once have seemed really hard) will seem easy.
 
THere was never a need to nerf anything, people who couldnt do it, should have asked, there are people out there willing to teach Pug groups , people out there willing to actually re-run the dungeon with you to try and get silver.. 
 
And I know you all hate hearing it, but A GUILD, a guild of people with the same mindset to move forward and progress is probably one of the greatest things about this game... sense of community, sense of friendship, compadrey (I might have spelled that wrong)
 
Basically all in all, dumbing anything down in this case is the first step towards terrible oblivion..
 
Also for the people that just hit 40 man Datascape.. I am sure if they went back to do X89, it'd be a cakewalk.. yet when they first started it, probably a lot of headaches and learning involved... THAT essence was suppose to be the whole point of this MMO... difficulty.. and overcoming adversity as a group.. together..
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People keep misquoting it.  The timers are still present and required for silver.  Only the attunement has changed.  If you have the achievement for silver STL/KV/w/e it will still be worth the same after this change...  If you really really want to keep the "bads" out of your raids simply get them to link (can you link achievements in this game?) their vet silver achievements.
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			The only thing the timer added was that there was no room for error to the point that the punishment was so severe it burnt out MANY people from dungeons entirely.	
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Correct, but after you get the mechanics its about DOING IT FAST AND RIGHT, thats the whole point.
 
Like someone already mentioned, even if you have the mechanics down for X89.. you are going to take your sweet merry time? and let all the platforms disappear?
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The only thing the timer added was that there was no room for error to the point that the punishment was so severe it burnt out MANY people from dungeons entirely.
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I demand that raids have 20 minute timers in order to appease the hardcore crowd!
 
Seriously, you're all just being silly.  The raids didn't have timers and if you can't clear the boss then you can't clear the raid.  Now dungeons are exactly like raids.  There is no timer (for attunement) and if you can't kill the boss then you can't clear the dungeon.  	
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What does speed running have to do with raiding? Changing it to bronze means that you don't have to spend extra time re-running a dungeon that you already know and likely have done many times already.
 
Again, running the dungeons fast has no meaningful correlation to raiding.
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My problem was mainly with the attunement process needing to be done in a specific order rather than concurrently. I actually didn't mind the timers on dungeons. But this change makes the dungeons so easy that having to re-run them multiple times is no big deal. Dungeons really aren't that hard - getting the same 5 people together to do a timed run IS VERY HARD. At least on my server at this point in the game.
 
Maybe this was the only way they could change the processes for the sake of accessibility without needing to go back to the drawing board. It's not like we are a patient bunch after all.
 
Still, like others have said - if you're that worried about bads in your raid make Silver dungeons a requirement of your guild's recruitment guidelines.	
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Maybe in your circles. The only guilds interested in doing things fast in raids are ones to whom the content has lost all challenge. The same is true of dungeons and thus another reason for the change.
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It has FULL CORRELATION AS SOMEONE ALREADY POINTED OUT IN THE THREAD
 
If you dont finish a dungeon in time = Not doing mobs correctly, wiping too much, not doing mechanics of boss properly. If you did all that correctly YOUD MAKE THE TIMER
 
IN RAIDS, if you dont kill X89 in time even after getting all the mechanics down, YOU WIPE AND LOSE,
 
 
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Well regardless.. thats like giving people a free pass to raids when they arent ready.. they wont be able to silver the dungeon, so to me, they are not ready to start raids..
 
If people wont put the effort into learning what becomes actually in comparison EASY, (Dungeons to raids) then they shouldnt be raiding..
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Well regardless.. thats like giving people a free pass to raids when they arent ready.. they wont be able to silver the dungeon, so to me, they are not ready to start raids..
 
If people wont put the effort into learning what becomes actually in comparison EASY, (Dungeons to raids) then they shouldnt be raiding..
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My problem was mainly with the attunement process needing to be done in a specific order rather than concurrently. I actually didn't mind the timers on dungeons. But this change makes the dungeons so easy that having to re-run them multiple times is no big deal. Dungeons really aren't that hard - getting the same 5 people together to do a timed run IS VERY HARD. At least on my server at this point in the game.
 
Maybe this was the only way they could change the processes for the sake of accessibility without needing to go back to the drawing board. It's not like we are a patient bunch after all.
 
Still, like others have said - if you're that worried about bads in your raid make Silver dungeons a requirement of your guild's recruitment guidelines.
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As somebody who thought the wording of this post reeked of the kind of highly toxic entitlement that made me quit League of Legends not so long ago, I seriously disagree with you.
 
Timer-based content is not fun in any way, shape or form. It also encourages people to just rage-quit groups the moment something goes wrong as if one small *cupcake*-up ends up being the difference between a Silver and a Bronze medal. Just look at Challenge Mode in Mists of Pandaria for instance. Very few people ran them and the moment a wipe or near-wipe occurs, it just greatly encouraged people to leave instance, reset and try again without making any actual progress just because they aren't willing to compomise on a Silver or Bronze medal, which would give 100 and 80 Valor Points respectively. And that's if the players had the patience to try again. More often than not, they'd just rage-quit.
 
Also, it's just attunement, big deal. It's not a nerf to anything located within the Datascape or Genetic Archives. The challenge is and still should be in the actual raids themselves and not about locking raiders out because they haven't completed a long and rigorous list of tasks that would have made the lead designers of World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade - Tom Chilton, Rob Pardo and Jeffrey Kaplan - cringe due to how rigorous they are.	
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Are you on drugs?
 
It has FULL CORRELATION AS SOMEONE ALREADY POINTED OUT IN THE THREAD
 
If you dont finish a dungeon in time = Not doing mobs correctly, wiping too much, not doing mechanics of boss properly. If you did all that correctly YOUD MAKE THE TIMER
 
IN RAIDS, if you dont kill X89 in time even after getting all the mechanics down, YOU WIPE AND LOSE,
 
HOW DO YOU NOT SEE THIS?
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People getting mad of nothing at all, they have not Nerf the Dungeons/Raids. They just made then more attainable to reach but mot to complete. So why the rage? Im real lofe people don't say that if you don't complete X thing in Y amount of time you will not be able to get to the next step. People still have to complete the dungeons to get attune, so what is the issue? People saying oh but anyone can carry someone through a Bronze medal, well if they are being carry, they were going to get carry anyway through a silver ( Or did you not know that you could carry people through silvers also? People saying, oh now I need to tell this new people that they cant raid with us because theya re not good enough, before it was the game telling them this, now me as a Guild Leader have to, well grow up, kick them then from your guild cause seems you don't even want to spend the time to teach them. All the rage about the bronze change is mostly a sense of entitlement, Dungeons/Raids are still hard, so why people are complaining about a nonsense thing is beyond me.
What we need to do instead of bitching about nothing, is ask Carbine and make them make a statement that they will not Nerf the dungeons/raids to make them easier, who cares about people getting to them, gating content is never a good option, but making them easier is something we don't want them to do. So instead of raging, we need to politly ask Carbine that Keep the current level of Raids/Dungeons and who knows even make them a little bit harder even.
Then again this is the forums so, we *cupcake* about everything.	
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So then why wouldnt they just agree upon extending timers by a little like they did STL (Which I still wouldnt agree with but its better than making the requirement Bronze)...
 
It would incite more pugging and learning, but itd still have the restrictions there for people to practice doing the content and mechanics right to save on time and pass the actual timer restrictions!
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If they aren't in YOUR raid group, who gives a flying flip whether or not YOU think they're ready for raiding?  What are you afraid of?  That people that did the "easy" version of the attunement might actually down raid bosses faster than you?
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Delusional? That would be you.
 
Your raiding guilds struggle to keep and field 20 man teams, let alone 40. You need a bigger pool of players if you want the raiding scene to survive.	
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You are so delusional to what I am saying... I am not talking about doing it fast in as FIRST TO COMPLETING EVERYTHINg
 
I am talking about KILLING the boss before enrage timer, or Killing it before you wipe!
 
Your comprehensive skills make my head hurt really really bad
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You are so delusional to what I am saying... I am not talking about doing it fast in as FIRST TO COMPLETING EVERYTHINg
 
I am talking about KILLING the boss before enrage timer, or Killing it before you wipe!
 
Your comprehensive skills make my head hurt really really bad
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That is a single fight dps-check and there are bosses in the dungeons that are the same. You are wrong. Get over it.
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What I am afraid of is when THESE PEOPLE GET TO RAIDS, and START OVERCOMPLAINING ABOUT RAIDS TOO, and they DUMB DOWN THE RAIDS!!!
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That's not true at all. 
The GA fights are 100% on timers - they're called "Enrage".
 
X-89's timer: Kill the boss before all the platforms are gone, or you wipe.
Kuralak's Timer: Kill the boss before her 5th rotation through the egg phases, or you wipe.
Phage Maw's Timer: Kill him before he goes up into the air a 3rd time, or wipe.
Prototypes' Timer: 11 minutes before the bosses beat the living shit out of you and you wipe.
 
...need I continue?
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A spiky brick wall that it also made of tigers.... and on fire...
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They're getting rid of a timer without nerfing the actual content. If you like this kind of difficulty (TIMERS), go to a casino. At best, they could just increase the timers.
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Sounds like a good change. Don't know. I mean, wayyy back in "the glory days" of WoW raiding the attunement process wasn't about timed runs, yet that seemed to work out just fine.
 
This should help get more people in the pool, and possibly teach them to be better players at the same time. When you remove the speed element, you open up the ability for people to learn from their mistakes and ultimately get prepared for raiding. You know, the whole point of attunement in the first place.	
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What I am afraid of is when THESE PEOPLE GET TO RAIDS, and START OVERCOMPLAINING ABOUT RAIDS TOO, and they DUMB DOWN THE RAIDS!!!
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What I am afraid of is when THESE PEOPLE GET TO RAIDS, and START OVERCOMPLAINING ABOUT RAIDS TOO, and they DUMB DOWN THE RAIDS!!!
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Look flat out timed runs are a bad design choice. Enrage timers on a boss are a good design. They removed the timers on the run, I've been saying since day one timed runs are a bad move, and they they'll be revisiting them.
 
Honestly you want real Hardcore, and real skilled runs, they need to put a death counter instead of timed on gold. 
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By that point you'll probably already be done with the raids (unless you're not as hardcore as you seem...), just like you were already done with the attunement when that got nerfed (which hasn't even happened yet).
 
So... whats the big deal?
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What I am afraid of is when THESE PEOPLE GET TO RAIDS, and START OVERCOMPLAINING ABOUT RAIDS TOO, and they DUMB DOWN THE RAIDS!!!
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{| class="blockquote"
You think if by the time I finish GA 20 with my guild I am going to NOT care if they dumb it down? thats a terrible notion, and it shows that if you think that way you are selfish beyond measure
I want this game to retain its difficulty, I enjoy when people actually FIGURE OUT and LEARN the mechanics and ACHIEVE IT.. because I personally remember the feeling of finally downing a dungeon on Silver for the first time, it was the greatest feeling, as if i overcame something extremely hard.
 
Then downing a raid boss then going back to do a silver dungeon... all the perspective you gain is amazing... this is what they are taking away
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Except the belief here is that what is currently happening will continue to happen because it was effective. Just like going back to your favorite fishing hole because you know you'll catch fish there, the people that managed to make the game easier, will continue to push for making the game easier.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Except the belief here is that what is currently happening will continue to happen because it was effective. Just like going back to your favorite fishing hole because you know you'll catch fish there, the people that managed to make the game easier, will continue to push for making the game easier and will quite likely succeed since there is now a running history of Carbine folding like paper to these types of demands.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I dont disagree with this,
 
But my point all in all is the fact that they have started the "dumb this game down" process.. which is ridiculous..
 
Sooner or later, more people are going to get into raids that dont deserve to be there /yet. because they havent taken the proper time to learn group cohesion and mechanics (Which is heavily needed in raids)
 
They will CONSTANTLY wipe in raids for days and weeks and then start complaining about the raid difficulty in masses on the forums, in turn Carbine will then DUMB DOWN THE RAIDS, like they did with dungeons...
 
This is the SAME chain of events that happened in WoW...
----
			
I was really hoping for a happy medium. Getting Bronze is nothing, it doesn't require all that much skill. On the other hand, getting Silvers for 20+ people is a headache. The timers were stressful and in many ways, encouraged cheating (Mordechai Redmoon anyone?).
 
 
After working my ass off for a month, I just finished the attunement chain yesterday. It feels almost like a slap to the face to have this nerf announced 12 hours later.. I'm a little frustrated. And I also know that if I had only been required to get bronze, I wouldn't have been ready to raid. So once they make it only bronze needed, and all those people that have been 50 a week that still have no real idea what they're doing hit GA and make no progress and start crying, are they just going to make that a cakewalk too?
 
Making it so you only need bronze is just an easy quick fix that isn't really going to fix anything.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Except the belief here is that what is currently happening will continue to happen because it was effective. Just like going back to your favorite fishing hole because you know you'll catch fish there, the people that managed to make the game easier, will continue to push for making the game easier and will quite likely succeed since there is now a running history of Carbine folding like paper to these types of demands.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You think if by the time I finish GA 20 with my guild I am going to NOT care if they dumb it down? thats a terrible notion, and it shows that if you think that way you are selfish beyond measure
I want this game to retain its difficulty, I enjoy when people actually FIGURE OUT and LEARN the mechanics and ACHIEVE IT.. because I personally remember the feeling of finally downing a dungeon on Silver for the first time, it was the greatest feeling, as if i overcame something extremely hard.
 
Then downing a raid boss then going back to do a silver dungeon... all the perspective you gain is amazing... this is what they are taking away
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
After working my ass off for a month, I just finished the attunement chain yesterday. It feels almost like a slap to the face to have this nerf announced 12 hours later.. I'm a little frustrated. And I also know that if I had only been required to get bronze, I wouldn't have been ready to raid. So once they make it only bronze needed, and all those people that have been 50 a week that still have no real idea what they're doing hit GA and make no progress and start crying, are they just going to make that a cakewalk too?
 
Making it so you only need bronze is just an easy quick fix that isn't really going to fix anything.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Perspective that not everyone wants or would even appreciate, thus unnecessary and is being remov
 
{| class="blockquote"
You think if by the time I finish GA 20 with my guild I am going to NOT care if they dumb it down? thats a terrible notion, and it shows that if you think that way you are selfish beyond measure
I want this game to retain its difficulty, I enjoy when people actually FIGURE OUT and LEARN the mechanics and ACHIEVE IT.. because I personally remember the feeling of finally downing a dungeon on Silver for the first time, it was the greatest feeling, as if i overcame something extremely hard.
 
Then downing a raid boss then going back to do a silver dungeon... all the perspective you gain is amazing... this is what they are taking away
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Wow you are a very vocal cry baby.  This is a good change.  A lot of guilds that could raid and progress can't because people are leaving due to the time it takes to attune people.  Do you have 50 members attuned right now?  Are they always on?  Wouldn't it be nice if you did?  More people attuned to raid and more guilds raiding and learning the content helps everyone.  Stop being a f-ing b.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Exactly... which is basically the plague I wish didnt start in the first place.. 
 
Seems like they are following WoW to the T...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Honestly you want real Hardcore, and real skilled runs, they need to put a death counter instead of timed on gold. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
{| class="blockquote"
Perspective that not everyone wants or would even appreciate, thus unnecessary and is being remov
 
{| class="blockquote"
You think if by the time I finish GA 20 with my guild I am going to NOT care if they dumb it down? thats a terrible notion, and it shows that if you think that way you are selfish beyond measure
I want this game to retain its difficulty, I enjoy when people actually FIGURE OUT and LEARN the mechanics and ACHIEVE IT.. because I personally remember the feeling of finally downing a dungeon on Silver for the first time, it was the greatest feeling, as if i overcame something extremely hard.
 
Then downing a raid boss then going back to do a silver dungeon... all the perspective you gain is amazing... this is what they are taking away
----
			
Lack of accessibility is what's killing this game.
 
Once people hit the "spiky tigery fiery wall" of Go-Gold-Or-Go-Home ... guess what, bro?
 
They went home. Now your servers are emptying out. Guilds are transferring off en masse. Guilds who were already into the attunement process are folding every week.
 
This has nothing to do with how difficult the Raids are - or even how difficult the dungeons are! It has everything to do with setting unrealistically high expectation for the vast majority of the player base. Period. I know you Hardcore Uber-Leets *love* your hardcore content to the exclusion of everything else, but without content being accessible, then guess wut cupcake? You won't have anyone to play with. 
 
The Slippery Slope bullcrap you're spewing is indicative of nothing more than a severe inability to recognize how the real world operates. Without accessible content, players FREAKING LEAVE. And since you like the Slippery Slope so much, it shouldn't take much slippage for you to see what will happen to a game when your high-and-mighty One Percent are the only ones left in town. 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Hahaha way to be dumb about it, if you fish in the same place as before your mind tells you its going to be a success but statistically speaking its not. You fish where the fish are not where they where before. Time/Climate eveything is different so why fish in the same place? You don't fish in the same place on the morning as in the afternoon, makes no sense.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
YOu obviously dont understand the cascading effects of this that I have stated over and over and why it is bad.
 
We always have attuned players because whenever someone who isnt, they are either new to the guild or havent been on. Because if anyone WANTs to get attuned and puts in the effort, WE HELP THEM, we teach them, we show them.. because we went through the effort to figure it out,
 
More people being attuned is not my arguement to why this is wrong and bad,, its what THEYLL DO if they get to the raid and start complaining, because they complained and got the requirement for attunedment adjusted, now they think they can probably do the same from GA 20 to datascape if they cant do it.
----
			
I'm good with these changes, i have my silvers done...
Let people hit GA, give people the chance to fail there. 
All we have to do is wait and see if they actually nerf content.. so far they havent.
 
 
In time, people will gear up and get through it even without having to do nerfs.	
----
			
For all the people complaining, here's what it actually means.
 
More people will be attuned. There will be more people to Raid with. How can that be a bad thing?
 
Indeed, it means that some people who aren't in guilds, and put off because they can't get Silver in PUGs will now be able to get attuned in PUGs. This means that more people will continue to play the game. How can that be a bad thing?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I was really hoping for a happy medium. Getting Bronze is nothing, it doesn't require all that much skill. On the other hand, getting Silvers for 20+ people is a headache. The timers were stressful and in many ways, encouraged cheating (Mordechai Redmoon anyone?).
 
 
After working my ass off for a month, I just finished the attunement chain yesterday. It feels almost like a slap to the face to have this nerf announced 12 hours later.. I'm a little frustrated. And I also know that if I had only been required to get bronze, I wouldn't have been ready to raid. So once they make it only bronze needed, and all those people that have been 50 a week that still have no real idea what they're doing hit GA and make no progress and start crying, are they just going to make that a cakewalk too?
 
Making it so you only need bronze is just an easy quick fix that isn't really going to fix anything.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Lack of accessibility is what's killing this game.
 
Once people hit the "spiky tigery fiery wall" of Go-Gold-Or-Go-Home ... guess what, bro?
 
They went home. Now your servers are emptying out. Guilds are transferring off en masse. Guilds who were already into the attunement process are folding every week.
 
This has nothing to do with how difficult the Raids are - or even how difficult the dungeons are! It has everything to do with setting unrealistically high expectation for the vast majority of the player base. Period. I know you Hardcore Uber-Leets *love* your hardcore content to the exclusion of everything else, but without content being accessible, then guess wut cupcake? You won't have anyone to play with. 
 
The Slippery Slope bullcrap you're spewing is indicative of nothing more than a severe inability to recognize how the real world operates. Without accessible content, players FREAKING LEAVE. And since you like the Slippery Slope so much, it shouldn't take much slippage for you to see what will happen to a game when your high-and-mighty One Percent are the only ones left in town.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is good on you however lots of guilds are NOT doing this. The are alienating new players and in the end destroying their own raids with attrittion. This costs the game players. Carbine is sort of trying to mitigate this a bit.
----
			I'm glad the dev team listened. 78 people signed/liked my petition for timers to be removed, everyone on my thread helped bring this about. Thank you, community of Wildstar..and most importantly- thank you Carbine Devteam!	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Lack of accessiblity falls on the responsiblity of the player, not the game.. because IT IS ACCESSIBLE. the content is there for you to ACCESS given you are able to get there...
 
Anything in life thats hard, you work for
----
			On one hand, I enjoy the timed runs.... on the other hand, I like having more people to play with.I don't know if they said what they plan to do as far as keeping timed runs in for.. gold maybe?  It'd be nice if they gave some super cool rewards for completing it timed after they remove it from attunement.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is good on you however lots of guilds are NOT doing this. The are alienating new players and in the end destroying their own raids with attrittion. This costs the game players. Carbine is sort of trying to mitigate this a bit.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Lack of accessiblity falls on the responsiblity of the player, not the game.. because IT IS ACCESSIBLE. the content is there for you to ACCESS given you are able to get there...
 
Anything in life thats hard, you work for
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Lack of accessibility is what's killing this game.
 
Once people hit the "spiky tigery fiery wall" of Go-Gold-Or-Go-Home ... guess what, bro?
 
They went home. Now your servers are emptying out. Guilds are transferring off en masse. Guilds who were already into the attunement process are folding every week.
 
This has nothing to do with how difficult the Raids are - or even how difficult the dungeons are! It has everything to do with setting unrealistically high expectation for the vast majority of the player base. Period. I know you Hardcore Uber-Leets *love* your hardcore content to the exclusion of everything else, but without content being accessible, then guess wut cupcake? You won't have anyone to play with. 
 
The Slippery Slope bullcrap you're spewing is indicative of nothing more than a severe inability to recognize how the real world operates. Without accessible content, players FREAKING LEAVE. And since you like the Slippery Slope so much, it shouldn't take much slippage for you to see what will happen to a game when your high-and-mighty One Percent are the only ones left in town.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Whew. Good thing I'm playing a game and not going to work huh?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
True, I will agree with you that, THAT is a negative effect that will begin to weed out with this change, but why is that the responsiblity of everyone else, that THAT guild wont play nice?
 
Shouldnt the players who YEARN for progression FIND a nice guild who WILL help people learn ?
----
			My real question, that I didn't see when I was watching is, is this already live or will this go live tonight with the hotfix?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
True, I will agree with you that, THAT is a negative effect that will begin to weed out with this change, but why is that the responsiblity of everyone else, that THAT guild wont play nice?
 
Shouldnt the players who YEARN for progression FIND a nice guild who WILL help people learn ?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
My real question, that I didn't see when I was watching is, is this already live or will this go live tonight with the hotfix?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Because Carbine needs to make money to continue and having players in their game is key to that. Having a healthy raid ecosystem is key that. Letting that sort itself out costs the game players. Players that are not easy to get back.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
My real question, that I didn't see when I was watching is, is this already live or will this go live tonight with the hotfix?
----
			The way I see it, at this time the game is tuned to be difficult (and gated) or "hardcore" depending on your perspective.The result? Well the "I quit" and the "WildStar is dying!" and "Server X is DEAD" forum posts pretty much speak for themselves.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Oh come on. A little patience here. ;)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
My real question, that I didn't see when I was watching is, is this already live or will this go live tonight with the hotfix?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
On Twitter Joe P said (and I paraphrase) that they were trying to do it fast but testing was important. No ETA given.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
On Twitter Joe P said (and I paraphrase) that they were trying to do it fast but testing was important. No ETA given.
----
			
As a person in a guild with 40+ attuned members to GA I see no problem with the changes.
 
What I do see is the amount of PPP going from 300 to 100... There is now no incentive for me to run another dungeon.
I have 175 Partial Primal Patterns.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So essentially thats what I am against, is trading in a type of player for another, which is what they started this game stating they basically wouldnt do.
 
If this all goes towards the popular chain of MMO history, these players will get to raids, more people in raids (yay) but when they experience it, the content is too hard for them because they are not ready, therefore they'll complain.. because now people cant get to Datascape (EVEN WITH MORE NUMBERS OF PPL IN RAIDS NOW) because people cant clear content...
 
THEY COMPLAIN AND NERF RAIDS, boom this becomes a game thats dumbed down and not what they originally had their MO for
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Lack of accessiblity falls on the responsiblity of the player, not the game.. because IT IS ACCESSIBLE. the content is there for you to ACCESS given you are able to get there...
 
Anything in life thats hard, you work for
----
			
By the way, another morsel of food for thought for the QQers... 
Which would you rather have applying to your raid:
 
1) People who had the patience to spend what might be hours on the un-timed dungeon runs or
2) People who ran out of patience fast, bought a full silver boost for 50plat and were done in a day?
 
Because you're literally putting 2) over 1) here with your arguing right now.
You're basically saying "Yes: Exploiters and boosters are fine, slowpokes are not". Ponder that for a while.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So essentially thats what I am against, is trading in a type of player for another, which is what they started this game stating they basically wouldnt do.
 
If this all goes towards the popular chain of MMO history, these players will get to raids, more people in raids (yay) but when they experience it, the content is too hard for them because they are not ready, therefore they'll complain.. because now people cant get to Datascape (EVEN WITH MORE NUMBERS OF PPL IN RAIDS NOW) because people cant clear content...
 
THEY COMPLAIN AND NERF RAIDS, boom this becomes a game thats dumbed down and not what they originally had their MO for
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
.. and now you want to make a sarcastic jab at me for doing so?
 
 
----
			
I plan on soloing the first Raid boss tbh.. i only needed 19 other attuned people for moral support, now that i can get them through easy to watch me..
 
If not ill be here to complain.
 
 
 
 
Yes.. Those posts will show up.. but you know.. long as they don't change the raid instances... were golden at this point.	
----
			If you did not see some sort of nerf to the attuning process coming you are delusional. If you think raids will not be nerfed in some way in a few months you too are delusional. This is the state of MMOs and life, $$$$ talks. In life they say death and taxes are the only things assured, well in MMOs nerfs and appeasing the 99% are assured. I dont care what the devs said yesterday or what they say tomorrow, everything is subject to change if enough of the vocal majority on all forums do enough crying. 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
By the way, another morsel of food for thought for the QQers...
 
Which would you rather have applying to your raid:
 
1) People who had the patience to spend what might be hours on the un-timed dungeon runs or
2) People who bought a full silver boost for 50plat and were done in a day?
 
Because you're literally putting 2) over 1) here with your arguing right now.
You're basically saying "Yes: Exploiters and boosters are fine, slowpokes are not". Ponder that for a while.
----
			If you cannot do silver dungeons you flat out do not deserve to be in the raids honestly. If you have a group and actually learn what you have to do, its not hard. Just learn it instead of QQing about not being able to get attuned. 	
----
			
You know, I've been a raider in dozens of games for 15 years now.  I've had my share of server firsts and even a few world firsts along the way.  I've been in the guild that figures out the fights and posts the strats that everyone else follows.
 
I've also been a "casual".  I've been in work situations where I could only play one day a week at prime time.  I've come into games years behind other players and had to try and catch up when no one cared about grouping for the lower stuff anymore.  I've been that newbie who's just trying to learn and who gets insulted and patronized for not being good enough.
 
I've noticed a few themes this week with people coming to Evindra and joining my guild.  Almost all of the new folks joining Evindra seem to be saying the same thing when they join, or when we take them on that first dungeon run.  Seriously, like 8 that I talked to just this past weekend.
- My old server was really empty and it was depressing.
- All I ever saw in chat was people complaining.
- No one ever wanted to group for anything normal mode, only the highest level stuff.
- No guild would recruit me because I wasn't silver attuned.
- I joined a group and I got yelled at because I made a mistake.
 
So to everyone freaked out by this change, I challenge you with this.  If this is such a slap in the face to you, if you care so much about enforcing a bar and saying "you must be this tall to ride", and if you give a damn about keeping the game fun for everyone playing it - then maybe you should think about whether YOU are contributing to these problems.
 
Being "hardcore" isn't about beating a timer.  It's not about downing something first.  It's not about keeping score.  If you're focused on that, you're doing it wrong.
 
It's about turning the playing of the game into an art form.  It's about being able to work as a team, even when everyone's not at the top of their game.  It's about being able to think on your feet and adapt so that when that healer is in the wrong place at the wrong time, it doesn't wipe you.  It's about being able to get back up and give it another try even when you've wiped 20 times, and still be laughing about it.  And most importantly, it's about recognizing that YOU influence the game experience of everyone else around you.  YOU can choose whether that influence is a positive one, that inspires folks to be better at the game, or a negative one, that causes them to leave.	
----
			
While I'm not in favor of this change, I'm also not necessarily against it. While achieving silver medals in all of the dungeons is a decent measurement of skill and potentially warrants the right to enter Genetic Archives, it doesn't mean that the players who don't have the time to form a consistent five man group or get lucky and find four good random players and progress through the dungeons to get their silver medals don't have it in them to get themselves into the 20 man raid and kick some serious ass.
 
Lowering the medal requirement down to bronze allows for players like the ones stated above who may be excellent players without sufficient time or time slots to be on at the same time as four other players to get silver dungeons and enter raids with guilds who are in dire need of players to fill their rosters. The only downfall of this fact is that while some good players will more easily enter raiding content, even more of the not so good players will as well. You could argue that if they don't have to time to find four other players and progress with them through silver dungeons, they probably won't have time to raid consistently with a guild each week. But this is in no way true, It's actually much easier to find a guild that raids during times that are much more suitable to your lifestyle than that of four people who are on the same attunement step as you.
 
If this is a problem that we actually do fear, I do have a suggestion that may help raiding guilds and recruiting the right players for them. If Carbine implements a feature that allows players (specifically catering to those recruiting for guilds) to see how well they performed in the dungeons, ie. all bronze medals, all silver medals, all gold medals. Possibly the ability to link an achievement showing off their dungeon medal standings or even a note next to their attunement key "Genesis Key (Silver)" or something along the lines of that. This will at least allow guilds to more easily (but not with 100% certainty) differentiate the players who put in the time and effort to get higher medals, or take the risk that the player who only has bronze dungeons is a good player who is cut out for raiding. Of course you could suggest that the guilds simply take the players and figure out just how skilled they are in the field, which will have to happen regardless, but the ability to see their medal standing may drastically reduce the amount of players the guilds have to filter through, trial and eventually be turned back (assuming they didn't meet the guilds skill requirement).	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If you cannot do silver dungeons you flat out do not deserve to be in the raids honestly. If you have a group and actually learn what you have to do, its not hard. Just learn it instead of QQing about not being able to get attuned. 
----
			
They should have doubled the timers instead. Removing them completely is making it way to easy and lowering the quality of raiders.
 
If I see someone attuned now I have no idea if they spent 10 hours on stormtalon until they got lucky, or someone that is actually decent.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
They should have doubled the timers instead. Removing them completely is making it way to easy and considerably lowering the quality of raiders.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
They should have doubled the timers instead. Removing them completely is making it way to easy and lowering the quality of raiders.
 
If I see someone attuned now I have no idea if they spent 10 hours on stormtalon until they got lucky, or someone that is actually decent.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What happens when the raids are "too hard"? Do we nerf them too?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If you cannot do silver dungeons you flat out do not deserve to be in the raids honestly. If you have a group and actually learn what you have to do, its not hard. Just learn it instead of QQing about not being able to get attuned. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
GA is in a really good place right now balance-wise. No plans to change that.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
They should have doubled the timers instead. Removing them completely is making it way to easy and lowering the quality of raiders.
 
If I see someone attuned now I have no idea if they spent 10 hours on stormtalon until they got lucky, or someone that is actually decent.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
So everyone is mad at something that has yet not happen? Or might not even happen?, we have reach a new low.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The assumption that the group of players that whined their way through attunements will not try to whine their way through raids? That is not a slippery slope. That is making an assumption based on a fact. The assumption can be viewed as extremely plausible considering that it worked once already.
 
Prior to this game coming out there were already people arguing with Carbine about how raids should not be a requirement to get the best gear in game. There will always be a playerbase trying to get the most possible with the least amount of effort involved. It is an inevitability for the game, and we knew that, but I do not think any of us expecting to happen this soon.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You know, I've been a raider in dozens of games for 15 years now.  I've had my share of server firsts and even a few world firsts along the way.  I've been in the guild that figures out the fights and posts the strats that everyone else follows.
 
I've also been a "casual".  I've been in work situations where I could only play one day a week at prime time.  I've come into games years behind other players and had to try and catch up when no one cared about grouping for the lower stuff anymore.  I've been that newbie who's just trying to learn and who gets insulted and patronized for not being good enough.
 
I've noticed a few themes this week with people coming to Evindra and joining my guild.  Almost all of the new folks joining Evindra seem to be saying the same thing when they join, or when we take them on that first dungeon run.  Seriously, like 8 that I talked to just this past weekend.
 
- My old server was really empty and it was depressing.
- All I ever saw in chat was people complaining.
- No one ever wanted to group for anything normal mode, only the highest level stuff.
- No guild would recruit me because I wasn't silver attuned.
- I joined a group and I got yelled at because I made a mistake.
 
So to everyone freaked out by this change, I challenge you with this.  If this is such a slap in the face to you, if you care so much about enforcing a bar and saying "you must be this tall to ride", and if you give a damn about keeping the game fun for everyone playing it - then maybe you should think about whether YOU are contributing to these problems.
 
Being "hardcore" isn't about beating a timer.  It's not about downing something first.  It's not about keeping score.  If you're focused on that, you're doing it wrong.
 
It's about turning the playing of the game into an art form.  It's about being able to work as a team, even when everyone's not at the top of their game.  It's about being able to think on your feet and adapt so that when that healer is in the wrong place at the wrong time, it doesn't wipe you.  It's about being able to get back up and give it another try even when you've wiped 20 times, and still be laughing about it.  And most importantly, it's about recognizing that YOU influence the game experience of everyone else around you.  YOU can choose whether that influence is a positive one, that inspires folks to be better at the game, or a negative one, that causes them to leave.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
TT, can you also make a statement about the dungeons? People want to be asure that they are not being nerf in the future as well.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
<snip>
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's not true at all. 
The GA fights are 100% on timers - they're called "Enrage".
 
X-89's timer: Kill the boss before all the platforms are gone, or you wipe.
Kuralak's Timer: Kill the boss before her 5th rotation through the egg phases, or you wipe.
Phage Maw's Timer: Kill him before he goes up into the air a 3rd time, or wipe.
Prototypes' Timer: 11 minutes before the bosses beat the living shit out of you and you wipe.
 
...need I continue?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
^see above, nope not happening
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
TT, can you also make a statement about the dungeons? People want to be asure that they are not being nerf in the future as well.
----
			
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The assumption that the group of players that whined their way through attunements will not try to whine their way through raids? That is not a slippery slope. That is making an assumption based on a fact. The assumption can be viewed as extremely plausible considering that it worked once already.
 
Prior to this game coming out there were already people arguing with Carbine about how raids should not be a requirement to get the best gear in game. There will always be a playerbase trying to get the most possible with the least amount of effort involved. It is an inevitability for the game, and we knew that, but I do not think any of us expected that it would start happening this soon.
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TT, can you also make a statement about the dungeons? Seems People want to be asure that they are not being nerf in the future as well.
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			Sorry, I missed the devspeak...any ETA on this change?	
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GA is in a really good place right now balance-wise. No plans to change that.
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GA is in a really good place right now balance-wise. No plans to change that.
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idk why you'd have this concern. This change doesn't nerf any content.
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The dungeons are also in a pretty good place balance-wise. No plans to change them either beyond bug-fixing and polish.
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Sorry, I missed the devspeak...any ETA on this change?
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GA is in a really good place right now balance-wise. No plans to change that.
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This is a GOOD change. Timers are absolutely arbitrary. Oh, I want to go to the restroom or answer the door while trying to do a silver to attune? YOU'RE NOT HARDCORE.Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if some of these ridiculous whiners had a bottle to pee in during their raids.
 
Grow up guys, it's a game. Let's have fun and challenge in the same place. Not ridiculous tedium.	
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 Thanks TT, hopefully the waters will calm down, AS every single thing in the NexusReport was positive.
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Community housing! Confirmation on Fishing! Housing Terrain! They passed along day time housing lighting! 
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It seems to me that the attunement process used to appear to be something that separated the hardcore from the casuals. With the coming change, it will now be a learning experience for all players. Forcing someone to rush and/or exploit their way through several dungeons only teaches them to rush and exploit. Allowing them to take their time and learn the content helps everyone.
 
Most (not all) of the posts I see against this seem to be centered on how this will no longer keep out the bad players. It's going to tale much more than a timer to do that....
 
You learn as you go in a raid, you learn as you go during attunement. Seems "right on track" to me :)	
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Hey I am an architect in real life, so housing is my time lost in this game, anything coming I am happy with!!! Downtime before raiding is well spent on housing changes hahahahaha
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			The rationale for lowering the barrier to attunement goes against everything that has been sold to us about WildStar thus far. The fact is, if you played an MMO properly and put together a team of players, none of the silver runs were a problem whatsoever. Over the course of this attunement, you are not only getting better gear, but also more familiar working with your team which is the very essence of what you're going to need to raid in WildStar. The dungeon runs were an absolute non-issue for players and teams that are truly expecting to progress in the WildStar raids. Now that there's an open floodgate allowing anyone into the content -- no matter if they have played and practiced with other players or not -- there will be cries to begin nerfing that raid content. These are players that won't even make it to the first boss. What will Carbine do next? So, I implore Carbine to look at re-instating stricter dungeon attunement requirements. If you want to take the edge off, find a more elegant solution... but do not remove the requirement to plat as a skilled team. I'm not willing to see another game slide downhill like this, and if this was necessary just to retain players, then I can't see a path to this being a long-term investment, as this kind of thing will just keep happening.
			
				
	Edited August 12, 2014 by Morwynne
	
		Trolling	
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Timers are there for a reason, because taking all the time in the world to do something makes it easy, its suppose to give a sense of urgency, and keeps people on their toes. It also helps the learning process for people that ACTUALLY want to learn and have the capacity to.
 
Timers for dungeons for attunement were important, and taking it out was ridiculous..
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Being "hardcore" isn't about beating a timer.  It's not about downing something first.  It's not about keeping score.  If you're focused on that, you're doing it wrong.
 
It's about turning the playing of the game into an art form.  It's about being able to work as a team, even when everyone's not at the top of their game.  It's about being able to think on your feet and adapt so that when that healer is in the wrong place at the wrong time, it doesn't wipe you.  It's about being able to get back up and give it another try even when you've wiped 20 times, and still be laughing about it.  And most importantly, it's about recognizing that YOU influence the game experience of everyone else around you.  YOU can choose whether that influence is a positive one, that inspires folks to be better at the game, or a negative one, that causes them to leave.
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Timers are actually detrimental to the learning process. People feel rushed, look for shortcuts, and cause frustration to the group if things aren't perfect.
 
If timers were important to dungeons, raids, and adventures then there may have been a reason to keep the requirement as it was.
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I know there are always going to be two sides to every change, and today I find myself on the giddy side.
 
Blah, Blah, ex-hardcore, etc...and now I am married with kids and like to bring the deeps when it's time to play. Unfortunately, because of my schedule there is no way I could commit to a hardcore, raid intensive environment (nor, after having done so would I want to again). So, this means I am playing as one of those 'hardcore-casual' types, I guess. Having said all that, this change makes me SO happy. It means the content is more accessible, and as a result I can easily expect our roster to be more active. All of the sudden, with a small change, I feel like there i something to look forward to again in this game.
 
All you elitist types are just white noise. 	
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I feel like Jim Ross should be sitting here commentating.
 
"AND THE FIGHT'S SPILLED OUT ONTO THE STREET!  HE'S GOT A CHAIR, KING, HE'S GOT A CHAIR!"	
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Why yes indeed your entire post is bullshit ;)
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The Timers are not hard, yes they are a challenge that take commitment but easily doable after learning all fights. If you can't remember a boss or trash mechanic to prevent you from wiping or your dps isn't on par for a silver medal then guess what? Your ability to understand mechanics is lacking and your dps is also lacking for raiding and there is no need for you to get attuned at all. Do not change the medal system it will make no difference, those who can't complete attunement are players who are not going to raid anyways. They need to understand that. Please carbine save us the time of having to tell someone they are bad and upsetting them.
 
Edit: Also since a lot of players don't seem to understand this, STOP TRYING TO PUG SILVERS. Maybe your issues will solve themselves if you take that advice. Dungeons require TEAMWORK and COMMUNICATION, two things that pugs lack. 	
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Whatever brings this game population / popularity back up is all that matters to me. The only thing that should be hardcore in this game are the Vet Boss fights, World boss, Warplots maybe and raiding. Everything else should be normal mode.  We're in a different genre right now and if casual is the way to go then so be it. Leave the hardcore stuff to the hardcore players when doing 40man raids because let's face it we all want this game  to do well in the end.
 
It has great potential.	
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^see above, nope not happening
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For all of the "level-headedness" you preach Nil, you sure aren't level headed :/
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Finally. Lethality not happy about something in the game.
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			9 pages of replies and maybe 6 people total upset with this change. Jeez, you guys really are a 1% minority...	
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9 pages of replies and maybe 6 people total upset with this change. Jeez, you guys really are a 1% minority...
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This is your friendly reminder to keep this thread on-topic/game related, constructive, and civil.
 
~Team WildStar	
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I'm not level headed? When did I say that? o.O
I'm just a little bit giddy over this change, can you really honestly blame me?
Especially because I've put up with WEEKS of abuse from Lethality himself. So yeah, gonna be smug about that.
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The Timers are not hard, yes they are a challenge that take commitment but easily doable after learning all fights. If you can't remember a boss or trash mechanic to prevent you from wiping or your dps isn't on par for a silver medal then guess what? Your ability to understand mechanics is lacking and your dps is also lacking for raiding and there is no need for you to get attuned at all. Do not change the medal system it will make no difference, those who can't complete attunement are players who are not going to raid anyways. They need to understand that. Please carbine save us the time of having to tell someone they are bad and upsetting them.
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			Ive seen players who got atuned utterly fail in GA, So no timers did nothing to adding a fail safe to baddies in raids. Im glad they are gone, because I know players who can defently do the content but cant find groups as compitent as they are to complete it.	
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This is a GOOD change. Timers are absolutely arbitrary. Oh, I want to go to the restroom or answer the door while trying to do a silver to attune? YOU'RE NOT HARDCORE.
 
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if some of these ridiculous whiners had a bottle to pee in during their raids.
 
Grow up guys, it's a game. Let's have fun and challenge in the same place. Not ridiculous tedium.
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This is your friendly reminder to keep this thread on-topic/game related, constructive, and civil.
 
~Team WildStar
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You're not expected to beat the damn timer on the first or second try... Players should not feel rushed, they should get a team and play the damn game as intended properly. 
 
This is a terrible change, and goes against everything sold to us about WildStar so far.
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So in a short future that game will be like WoW but with way less content?
 
This game is now officially the property of the casuals. 
 
Everything will be nerf to the ground including quests, dungeons, attunements and raiding. When you nerf the attunement the next step is the raids and everyone who have been playing MMOs for the past years know that There is no doubt in my mind that this will be the next step.
 
Is it a good or a bad thing? I don't know. I'm a casual so i should be happy but somewhere i feel more like beeing stab in the back by Carbine because that's exactly what they promise will never happen with Wildstar. 	
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