145853-would-a-dev-please-level-an-outfitter-or-tailor-on-one-of-their-toons

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1st I LOVE THIS GAME. In no way am I going to quit playing anytime soon.Crafting is pretty annoying though.I leveled up a weapon smith to master no problem.It took as long as I expected with the mining and all. Then I started with outfitter and tailor. after about 20 hours I looked through the forums and I guess the drop rate for cloth and leather has been a problem for a long time.
 
Would a developer please level up these professions on a couple toons...Do a level 1 toon and try to level crafting as you quest and play the game...And take a max level toon and level tailor or outfitter.If after doing that you are ok with the way things stand then ok I will get behind you....
 
The idea of crafting is huge. In my humble opinion and in my hopes and dreams someday there will be a way to craft bis gear.At really good gear or something that people want.Crafting is fun ...but when it is irrelevant to the game whats the point.
 
There are a lot of posts with suggestion so I am not gonna offer up mine.On top of that I am a chef and have no clue what is involved in changing lines of code or whatever to modify things in a game like this.Maybe it is just to difficult to even approach I have no clue.I just know that if I farm for 4 hours mining I get about 500 green mat 150 blue mat and 50 purple mat or something close to that...if I farm cloth or leather it takes 20 hours to do the same thing farming the correct mobs. So....I just cannot justify the time sink. If the payoff was better I would totally justify it. But at the moment that time is better spent doing contracts or gold or rep....
 
On a completely different note. I sure wish there were more costumes to buy in the cash shop.I hope there are more coming in the future.	
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			You know you're supposed to have Survivalist alongside Tailor or Outfitter, to boost your rate of cloth and/or leather right?	
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You have no idea how slow it is even with survivalist.If you're farming a specific mat, you're lucky to get one every 5-6 kills.  The amount of time it takes to get our materials of cloth and leather is a joke compared to wood or ore.
 
Wood/ore farming gets you 5-6x more in the same time that cloth/leather people can get it.	
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			IMO a survivalist paired with tailor should have the hability to scavenge dead humanoids for extra cloth/fiber, and, if paired with outfitter the same but with animals.	
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			I'm going to start my 2nd outfitter on the opposite faction soon, and I'll be able to measure this, but on my 2nd tailor, it didn't look like the rate of cloth was improper. Were you killing animal mobs to get the leather? Remember that humanoids and other non-animals do not drop leather, pelts or bones...	
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			Just have cloth harvestable from trees.  It's not that silly and would finally make things fair for a tailor.	
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You have no idea how slow it is even with survivalist.
 
If you're farming a specific mat, you're lucky to get one every 5-6 kills.  The amount of time it takes to get our materials of cloth and leather is a joke compared to wood or ore.
 
Wood/ore farming gets you 5-6x more in the same time that cloth/leather people can get it.
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			As far as I know survivalist are the only ones who can loot pelts/bones/leather/fiber/cloth, if you don't have it none of those will drop for you, tailor/outfitter don't seems to add any bonus to drop rates.	
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Never had problem with cloth, leather was a bit harder, but never the bottle neck.  That used to be specific level, bone drops.  Which we've been complaining about forever.
 
Want leather, kill animal types only.  Dismantle trophies.
 
Want cloth, kill humanoids only.  Dismantle grey cloth armor.
 
Hope this helps.	
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Never had problem with cloth, leather was a bit harder, but never the bottle neck.  That used to be specific level, bone drops.  Which we've been complaining about forever.
 
Want leather, kill animal types only.  Dismantle trophies.
 
Want cloth, kill humanoids only.  Dismantle grey cloth armor.
 
Hope this helps.
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Yeah, I'm stuck at whimfiber with my max character level tailor/survivalist. I thought "well, I'll go kill lots of level whatever humanoids", but that wasn't a pleasant experience. I've got lots of denimite, though, since at level cap you can't outlevel your crafting material range, and well, since I can't even use it, it adds up.
 
But spending a whole afternoon on a low level zone just to complete ONE of the three daily quests... feels terrible.
 
Meanwhile, my technologist/relic hunter, every time he finds himself at zero mats he just goes somewhere, spends a bit of time blasting nodes, and he's back to drowning in mats.
 
It's objectively NOT okay.	
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Meanwhile, my technologist/relic hunter, every time he finds himself at zero mats he just goes somewhere, spends a bit of time blasting nodes, and he's back to drowning in mats.
 
It's objectively NOT okay.
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I started a brand new toon when F2P hit.  Outfitter/Survivalist.  He's level 34 as of last night.  Since level 10 I have NOT vendored a SINGLE unusable piece of gear, it all gets salvaged.  All of it.  I run challenges like crazy.  For example, I've probably done the challenges outside of the main Whitevale dominion base at least a dozen times each.  I always take the gear rewards and salvage what isn't an upgrade.  I have committed chompacabra and silversnout genocide.  I have killed hundreds of those critters.
 
Last night I did some crafting and couldn't manage to get the remaining 400 XP I need to reach Journeyman outfitter because I didn't even have the mats to make green gear just for the crafting XP!
 
The drop rate on leather and bone is abysmal!  I'm gonna retire my thicket because the amount of mats it provides are so low that that plot would be more useful with just about anything else on it.
 
The basic green crafting mat drop rate is so low it is impossible to level the craft and keep it on par with my character's level.
 
Meanwhile, I've got enough wood to build an entire city.  I think it's possible to get more ore from killing and looting elementals without any gathering skill at all than it is to get leather with the survivalist skill.  WTF Carbine!!!!!!!
 
The drop rates on the basic green crafting mats for outfitter need to at least be doubled so it's at least possible to level the craft even without doing all the capstone stuff.	
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			I think the biggest problem here is really the useless salvaging, now that it gives so few leather/cloth. We used to always get at least 1 crafting material, when now we rarely do.	
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I can get behind this totally.  I have a tailor and an outfitter and both suffer from a lack of materials.  So my tailor was made before survival was the trade to go with it, I took mining to help my weaponsmith.  I do have a pure gatherer (mining and survival) so I get some materials.   The sucktastic thing was when the f2p hit, my tailor had all his mats taken and was compensated with new mats.  Only all I had were weaves.  HUNDREDS and hundreds of them, but no cloth and no fiber.  You know what seems to drop less than anything for me?  CLOTH and FIBER.  HEY! I can make Expert capstone stuff!  But . . . I have zero fiber or cloth.  I will just make some Artisan capstone stuff - oh, no cloth or fiber there either.  
 
My outfitter was level 25 when F2P hit, so he has been leveling up and killing everything that crawls, stalks, etc. in his path.  now is level 42 and I still do not have enough mats to level up even Artisan Chest.  I have exactly 19 Rockhide leather.  I leveled (still not done with wilderrun yet btw) from level 36ish to 42 in wilderrun and have gotten exactly 19 rockhide leather for it.  No way to make myself gear as I level up as in 8 levels I will be 50 and will just end up buying the season 2 pvp gear for that.
 
The drop rates on leather and cloth are very slow.  I tried a harvest potion during this wilderrun  trip so I really shudder to think what I would have pulled without it.	
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As far as I know survivalist are the only ones who can loot pelts/bones/leather/fiber/cloth, if you don't have it none of those will drop for you, tailor/outfitter don't seems to add any bonus to drop rates.
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			Has there ever been a dev comment on this?	
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So to add some insight to this:   
I dropped outfitter today and took mining.  As I was done questing in wilderrun but had a couple of explorer things to finish, I ran a quick path through galaras, whitevale, etc. to make sure I was able to mine in wilderrun.  I hit Wilderrun and began mining nodes as I picked up the last path quests.
 
In 20 minutes i had mined: 60 Xenosite, 20 Shadeslate and 2 chrysalus.  Within 30 or so minutes (time to finish my path stuff) I had 100 xenosite, 27 shadeslate and 4 chrysalus.  So yeah, 19 leather in HOURS of play vs 30 minutes in the *SAME* area  with the same character and ZERO potions with 100 units of base ore.
 
There is something really REALLY messed up about that.
 
AND again: Tailor is even worse if I am any example.  My entire time questing in Wilderrun (killing Torine, etc.) approximately 1 cloth, 4 fiber and 6 or so weaves.	
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Im on expert right now and trying to get mats to get to master and finish out the trees is costing so much.
Just look at the CX, theres not even a total of 500 of the purple cloths whereas miners have over 2k in 3/4 purple resources.
 
They need to fix drop rates to a normal amount AND/OR decrease the amount of mats needed to make each item. Crazy that a guild mate leveled armor from nothing to unlocking everything and being master in 2 days with only 25 plat.
 
Some word from the Devs would be nice, seems the only thing they are doing right now is Events that dont keep people in the game.	
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I have a tailor from before F2P, and I'm frankly flummoxed by how difficult it is to now get cloth. It simply boggles my mind that they took away even the ability to make cloth from plant bits (making some seeds rather superfluous, but whatever).
 
What's really shocking is the imbalance between harvesting mining based resources and cloth (also leathers I presume), During Shade's Eve I harvested hundreds of ore, gems and so on because I was just running the holiday stuff and then popping back to my house on CD to harvest. My tailor, by way of contrast, zero cloth.	
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I have a tailor from before F2P, and I'm frankly flummoxed by how difficult it is to now get cloth. It simply boggles my mind that they took away even the ability to make cloth from plant bits (making some seeds rather superfluous, but whatever).
 
What's really shocking is the imbalance between harvesting mining based resources and cloth (also leathers I presume), During Shade's Eve I harvested hundreds of ore, gems and so on because I was just running the holiday stuff and then popping back to my house on CD to harvest. My tailor, by way of contrast, zero cloth.
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Are you a survivalist?
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Being a survivalist doesn't help.
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This is an utter total lie. 
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As I said earlier in this thread:  Leather gathering and Cloth gathering WITH THE Survival skill do NOT generate adequate levels of materials for the time spent.  I leveled from 36 to 95% of 42 (ie almost 43) in Wilderrun actively hunting for leather.  I killed anything that had 4 legs that I saw.   In all that time I got 19 base units of leather.  No pelt, no bone.
 
I also got 1 cloth, 4 fiber and around 6 weaves. Oh and this was while on one of those gathering pots.
 
I dropped outfitter and took mining, went back to wilderrun as I had a few explorer things to do.  In roughly 30 minutes I had mined 100 Xenosite, 27 Shadeslate and 4 Chrysalus.  (Without the gathering potion)
 
HOURS of farming for 19 units of leather vs 30 minutes getting 100 units of ore.  WHERE exactly is the balance there?	
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Ok, it doesn't help ENOUGH. The fact is there is a problem with outfitters and tailors getting the supplies they need. You can quibble all you want about why, but the fact is there is a problem and someone from the company needs to address it, or at the VERY least acknowledge it. 
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Ok, it doesn't help ENOUGH. The fact is there is a problem with outfitters and tailors getting the supplies they need. You can quibble all you want about why, but the fact is there is a problem and someone from the company needs to address it, or at the VERY least acknowledge it. 
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Indeed. I'm frankly unclear what Timinel is even responding to, but perhaps I am not understanding something;
 
My complaint is not that when you are leveling that you don't get enough drops off mobs (which may or may not be true, but it wasn't my particular complaint). My complaint was that some gathering skills can generate a huge amount of resource simply from their own housing plots, while cloth is strictly a product of grinding.
 
Why is it that someone making weapons/heavy armor can completely source their materials off housing plots, but a tailor cannot? It's one thing to say that these professions are different, but here there appears to be a massive difference in ease of gathering for no pay-off. Tailored armor is no better then heavy armor, but requires a far greater investment of time and energy.
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The fact that there is a problem does not give us leave to exaggerate beyond belief to a point where the issue is clouded by hyperbole. BE REALISTIC! Tell Carbine the things as they are. Don't say things like "it doesn't help at all". Be specific. Be precise. Be constructive. We are here to work with carbine to get things done. If everyone is pushing things to make them look like what they are not, how bloody likely do you think it is that they will fix anything? What you are doing IS. NOT. HELPFUL.
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I think the thicket should have a guy you mug for cloth.  I can harvest ore on my plot, I can harvest relics.  I can harvest trees, meat and hides/bones/pelts but I can NOT get cloth.  Messed up.
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What, precisely, do you consider an exaggeration "beyond belief"?
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			I am guessing that no Dev took me up on my suggestion to take a toon in game and level Tailor or Outfitter. I guess there is a lot to do , I truely have no Idea what goes on in maintaining a game like this.I food and hospitality. I do know that today though I started playing about noon amd stopped playing about midnight. the majority of that time I spent farming mats for Tailor in wilderurn. Killin the amazon ladies. I decimated them.. got 2 amp upgrades and managed to get enough mats to finish out my Teir. After buying about 2 plats worth of mats off the exchange....So 12 hours of game time...realistically 7.5 to 8 hours of farming and around 200 whimfiber 80 whatsit weave and 18 cloth......Also all you guys stating the obviose like " Kill humanoids for cloth and Aminals for hides " no one does not know that so......maybe try not to be so condicending...In the same amount of time it took me to get  my tailor to artizen.... I have leveled 2 toons to 50 and have 1 attuned.I think it would be best to give tailors and outfitters some sort of reward for this unfortunate oversight.Like a couple tokens for no fail overcharging or something.Also I would like there to be tokens for no fail overcharging. But only givin out in secret to tailors and outfitters.....	
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			The droprates are just ridiculous bad  :angry:	
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This is precisely what I am saying (okay, well, more a loom then a guy getting beat up forever, but whatever): earlier today I logged onto my miner character just to clear the minerals from my plot before questing on another character. Not 5 minutes of game time and I gathered enough resources a level equivalent crafted item, including both blue and purple drops.
 
You simply cannot do anything similar for cloth. Frankly, at this point I would appreciate just getting some insight from the designers on what the reasoning is here. 
 
I can guess that this is on account of farming cloth being something that you do while you are grinding quests, but if that is the idea, the reality falls far short of the design. There simply isn't the consistency of drops needed to replicate the resource gathering of plots.
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Well a loom would be nice, but everyone keeps just saying "kill humanoids for cloth" bla bla bla 
 
yeah I KNOW that is how you get cloth.  I understand that you need suvivalist to make sure your drop rates of said cloth are improved.  the issue is the drop rates SUCK!  There is a kind of RNG luck with the drop rates of cloth and leather.  This is not the case with Ore and Relics.  You ALWAYS get ore, you just *sometimes* (rng) get the higher grade stuff.  With cloth and leather there is a RNG of *IF* You get any at all.  THEN there is an RNG of if you get a higher grade.  
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			Just make cloth harvestable like every other main material.  Problem solved.  Just use trees.  It' not that far fetched.	
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That's because if you go into some areas there's heaps of mobs to farm from, whereas mining nodes can be quite sparse. 
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Well... I just dropped 10 augmented leather + 3 pelt + 1 bone from 1 mob in Blighthaven.
It was too low, not it's too high.
 
Can't we get a reasonably balanced drop rate yes?
What's the deal with always making changes in a vacuum and going for either extreme and skipping the happy medium?	
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HOLY *BEEP*ING METRIC TONS OF DROPS! DROPS EVERYWHERE! Carbine, you turned the knobs too much :X perhaps. I got more glamer cloth to drop in 5 minutes today than I had in the rest of the week.
 
Is this intentional?	
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Why is the new drop rate "too much"? We've been dried out for months. Leave it as is I say, and enjoy being able to do dailies and all that quickly.
 
I mean, destroy mats if you want less, but please, leave my less time wasted now alone.	
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HOLY *BEEP*ING METRIC TONS OF DROPS! DROPS EVERYWHERE! Carbine, you turned the knobs too much :X perhaps. I got more glamer cloth to drop in 5 minutes today than I had in the rest of the week.
 
Is this intentional?
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While I hate to be the one to say this, but yeah cloth drops are way high right now.
 
I took 2 characters through crimson badlands and ended up with >250 mageweave, >250 denimite and around 30 or so purple cloth (forgot the name).  
 
That was just doing the daily quests there, but once the cloth rain started I went kind of on a crazed killing spree. :)
 
I can not even get that much ore in that amount of time.
EDIT:  now leather seems to have gotten a boost, but not nearly so high.  I will keep checking leather farming today, but so far it is much more balanced than cloth.
EDIT 2: I did some testing.  In 30 minutes in blighthaven I got 120 Augmented leather, 21 Primal Pelts and 1 Infused bone.  That is pretty much the same ore I got in that time in wilderrun, so it seems leather harvesting is pretty balanced right now.
			
				
	Edited November 12, 2015 by RazorrX	
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While I hate to be the one to say this, but yeah cloth drops are way high right now.
 
I took 2 characters through crimson badlands and ended up with >250 mageweave, >250 denimite and around 30 or so purple cloth (forgot the name).  
 
That was just doing the daily quests there, but once the cloth rain started I went kind of on a crazed killing spree. :)
 
I can not even get that much ore in that amount of time.
EDIT:  now leather seems to have gotten a boost, but not nearly so high.  I will keep checking leather farming today, but so far it is much more balanced than cloth.
 
EDIT 2: I did some testing.  In 30 minutes in blighthaven I got 120 Augmented leather, 21 Primal Pelts and 1 Infused bone.  That is pretty much the same ore I got in that time in wilderrun, so it seems leather harvesting is pretty balanced right now.
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This is not too much. Please don't make them tune it back down again. You know if they change it, it'll just be horribly painful once more.
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Not sure what you farmed, but leather, pelt and cloth drop as much as cloth.
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Why is the new drop rate "too much"? We've been dried out for months. Leave it as is I say, and enjoy being able to do dailies and all that quickly.
 
I mean, destroy mats if you want less, but please, leave my less time wasted now alone.
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			YAY!!!!! now it is all better...Thank you dev dudes!!!!!	
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			NO ONE SAY A FREEKIN WORD ABOUT THE DROPS BEING TO HIGH NOW!!!!!!   FFS we have been through hell with this... don't talk about balance , don't complain about the market prices , don't say a word about any of it. Just keep your mouths shut and level up your trades and be thankful. Seriously what kind of masacist cries about getting thrown a bone after months of nightmarish hell	
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NO ONE SAY A FREEKIN WORD ABOUT THE DROPS BEING TO HIGH NOW!!!!!!   FFS we have been through hell with this... don't talk about balance , don't complain about the market prices , don't say a word about any of it. Just keep your mouths shut and level up your trades and be thankful. Seriously what kind of masacist cries about getting thrown a bone after months of nightmarish hell
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			I honestly don't think it's too high. I think people have become so used to cloth and leather drops being terrible (they weren't all that great pre-f2p either) that having them drop in amounts similar to relic nodes/ore/trees feels like a lot more than it is. I can harvest just as much if not more relic mats or ore in the amount of time it takes to get 250 cloth or leather now. Considering the quantities they're needed in, I think it's fine.	
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I'm still getting well more relics, ore and wood than cloth/leather, even though I noticed they finally upped the droprates for cloth/leather. It's okay, it's fine this way. Let us catch up pls, I've leveled 3 survivalists and I still wasn't able to level my outfitter, so it's level 30 now and 20 levels behind. I'll emphasis: with THREE survivalists.
 
I still seem to get way more cloth than leather, but that's probably because I'm in an area with little to no leather dropping beasts and many humanoids. Even so, I'll have to go back to the STARTER area to catch up, which I already did many times but hey, sometimes you just want to enjoy the leveling. 
 
I really am into professions, so I have 'm all. If I say that I swim around in ore/relics/wood and still am short on leather, please believe me that the droprates are fine the way they are now. Even if you think they are too high, it should be a catchup moment for those far far behind.	
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			We made adjustments based on acquisition data of all crafting materials based on equivalent rarity. The total acquisition vs other professions were off significantly, in some cases it was 1/10 of the comparable material. We'll be monitoring it in the future to determine if any other adjustments are needed.	
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			Thanks, Meerkat. Again for what it's worth - I feel like the change was wholly appropriate. Leather and cloth drops are finally comparable to the other gathered mats.	
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We made adjustments based on acquisition data of all crafting materials based on equivalent rarity. The total acquisition vs other professions were off significantly, in some cases it was 1/10 of the comparable material. We'll be monitoring it in the future to determine if any other adjustments are needed.
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I apreciate eveyone complaining how hard it was to level outfitters and tailors i myself spent hours in wilderrun farming cloth and over 40P to finish to master , but your complaining broke to marketplace cause of the super high level of drops.
Glammer cloth uses to go for 25g a piece  within a week is almost below 1g now.   I used to spend my plat buying cloth to make complex matrix items 1 1/2 - 2 plat a item and then sell them on the market for 3-4p with the chance one would break.  Now i can make a item for around 30g  the market for these items is at 1p and dropping.  In one day the ammount of cloth on the market went from a average of 200 to 2500.  
The stuff we make you only even need once maybe twice per character,  there is no reacuring market  and no need for GA or DS gear which are horribly under leveled to be worth even crafting.
the whole point of my complaint is i used to make a living giving people who farmed mats 15-20 plat at a time then selling my hard work crafting on the market with the chance i would fail and loose 2p or make a junk item i could barely break even on.
 
My feelings on this is crafting was never ment to be fun or easy, its ment to be something you could do on the side and make some good things with.  Leveling a tailor became a joke  there is no work now just afew plat at the market and boom master crafter.   I just feel betrayed of all my hard work farming money and mats to make it to master just to have mastercrafter given out for free now.	
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And yet, people claimed "it was not too much". Go figure. People simply cannot measure things accurately. You are absolutely correct, it was too high an increase, as it was obvious.
 
Unfortunately, this is still just another little fish in the large net of problems with crafting post F2P. It is nothing short of a disaster. And to top things off, Carbine does not comment on anything. If they at least told us they are satisfied with the way things are we could stop providing feedback, but NOOOO, we have to stay in this limbo we are now. Bah...	
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