Report 289

Report #289
Skillset: Nekotai Skill: New
 Org: Nekotai Status: Rejected Dec 2009
Furies' Decision:
We don't find this to be necessary.
Problem: Nekotai are currently the only monk guild lacking a way to prone a
target (outside of a grapple/throw) without requiring a high level of momentum
as well as consuming 2 momentum minimum (sprongma gut/angkhai leg)
Solution #1: Give Nekotai an ability similar to starkick - must target head,
 prones, random affliction
Solution #2: Give Nekotai a modifier similar to hook - must target legs, nekai
 only actions, prones, chance to stun
Solution #3: Give Nekotai a modifier similar to dhatogh - must target legs,
 basic nekai attack only, prones, chance to stun
Player Comments:
---[Nienla on 11/13 @ 22:49 writes]:
Solution #2 is #3 is fine.
---[Nienla on 11/13 @ 22:49 writes]:
Correction. #2 or #3
---[Yukio on 12/15 @ 06:54 writes]:
I prefer solution 3, though solution 2 would not be bad either.
---[Akui on 12/15 @ 16:57 writes]:
Currently, Nekotai have scorpion tail, which is a defense which passively prones
a person who hits your stancing. While situational to certain archetypes, it's
pretty nasty. Nekotai don't need the same lower end proning as other monk
guilds, giving them such would make them go from "better in some situations and
worse in others" to "the same as everyone else, and, hey, passively proning
anyone who manages to hit stance too." Now, if we were replacing the scorpion
tail defense with a an ability or mod of some sort, then that'd be fine. It's
not as if Nekotai are hurting for killing people.
---[Nienla on 12/17 @ 03:11 writes]:
Scorpion Tail shouldn't really be an issue as I don't believe it stuns, I
believe it just prones. If it does prone and stun, than perhaps modifying
Solution #2 and Solution #3 to not include stun would be sufficient. Regardless
of ScorpionTail stunning or not, Nekotai do need a kick just simply functions as
a proner.
---[Akui on 12/17 @ 04:19 writes]:
There's no reason for them to have a proning kick. Scorpiontail doesn't stun,
but it does make the person triggering it essentially use their balance to go
prone, which assures maximum prone time. There aren't any internal reasons to
give Nekotai more proning potential- just the argument "other specs have this,
therefore, this one should too". That's not really a mechanical argument. Keep
in mind as well that Nekotai aren't devoid of proning abilities. Indeed, they
can tendon at momentum 4, as mentioned in the report. For completeness, I'll
mention the very cheap 125 ka ability to open gut as well, which does prone, but
is delayed and thus more vulnerable to curing. Again, if it was being swapped
for scorpion tail, that would be another matter, but the guild is hardly hurting
for combat potential here, and more proning isn't needed.
---[Evaine on 12/18 @ 10:48 writes]:
I'd hardly call Scorpiontail a reliable way to prone someone unless you're lucky
enough for someone to hit stance exactly when you want them to. And it doesn't
have to be a kick.
---[Nienla on 12/18 @ 17:02 writes]:
What? Evaine is right. It's not like every class hits stance. They have no way
of proning non-physical classes like Bards, Guardians, and Wiccans. Open Gut is
not a reliable way at all to prone someone as it requires that they get a tick
before they actually cure Open Gut, which for a Warrior envoy, you should know
that the odds of the person curing it is more likely to tick is extremely high.
All the Nekotai are asking for is just a prone kick, no stun. ScorpionTail
doesn't stun. An individuals curing is not hurt at all by a proning kick, so I
don't see what you're going on about.
---[Akui on 12/18 @ 18:01 writes]:
I'm not bringing up stun at all. Scorpiontail prones for the full duration of
the attack balance by virtue of how it occurs. But there's absolutely no
evidence presented here that Nekotai need a low end prone. None. Just saying
"other archetypes have this". Are Nekotai having problems killing people? No.
Is scoripon tail highly effective situationally? Hell yes. Fighting an
axelord? Stance legs, and the dreaded doubletap becomes a big pain. This is an
utterly uncessary buff to an already powerful guild set. If you want to make it
so that the proning maneuver can't be done while scopriontail is active, and
give scorpiontail a sizeable balance recovery on raising it, that would work
too. But for any guild that can hit stance? This is too much.
---[Ceren on 12/23 @ 15:30 writes]:
Well I thought about this for a while, and by my reckoning there is a reason
that only nekotai lack this sort of proning move. Nekotai, and nekotai alone
have a mod that nearly guarantees a poison hitting, despite resilience. If you
make a form with the poisoning mod (is it creehai? I can't remember),
slitthroat, and this hypothetical proning move, and envenom calcise/senso, you
can cause a nearly guaranteed green/gedulah lock for, correct me if I'm wrong,
just 1 momentum loss. Currently a nekotai must consume 3 momentum and 5 power
(for boost) for the conventional severspine/slit or tendon/slit greenlock.
---[Llandros on 12/23 @ 20:04 writes]:
I'm inclined to agree with Akui and Ceren
---[Evaine on 12/24 @ 01:42 writes]:
Creehai isn't nearly as good as you think it is.