113689-is-this-game-worth-investing-a-ton-of-my-time-into

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I've been a huge World of Warcraft fan for years but eventually got bored and about 6 months ago took a break from WoW.
 
Since then I've played Guild Wars 2, Wildstar, SWTOR, Final Fantasy XIV, and Elder Scrolls Online.
 
The only game that's been able to hold my attention is Wildstar....However, I have not invested a significant amount of time into it.
 
My fear is that when I reach end game content it will not be the game I was expecting. What I LOVE about "other MMO's" is the massive amount of end game content.
 
Would you stick with Wildstar or get your characters ready for another MMO's expansion coming up? What is Wildstar end game like in comparison to other MMO's?	
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You can't ask that question on a Wildstar official forum and expect an entire range of views to be given to you, and that those views continue to remain viewable.
 
 
You either need to restructure your questioning (ie. asking if Wildstar is worth it on its own, without mentioning in comparison to WoD), or post it on a 3rd party forum to get people's opinions on both sides there.
 
 
The only way this will survive as is will be Off-Topic, the place where threads go to die.	
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A ton of time probably not, some time? absolutly
 
edit: as for endgame, do you like building with lego? do you like minecraft? are you creative? if yes housing is for you
do you like rep grinds and lots of dailies? wildstar has them
difficult dungeons? got that covered too
story and lore? yep
 
does it have the amount and variety of endgame activities for all skill levels that WoW has? not even close	
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You can't ask that question on a Wildstar official forum and expect an entire range of views to be given to you, and that those views continue to remain viewable.
 
 
You either need to restructure your questioning (ie. asking if Wildstar is worth it on its own, without mentioning in comparison to WoD), or post it on a 3rd party forum to get people's opinions on both sides there.
 
 
The only way this will survive as is will be Off-Topic, the place where threads go to die.
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Personal view - Worth a lot of time but only if you're willing to improve yourself everyday in PvP/dungeons/raids and put money into rune sets etc. I have lots of fun doing GA now and dungeons post itemization should be far more worthwhile now. Can never be certain about the future but WoW has turned into trash in my view at this point and I'll never ever resub again.Overall:Raids: Fun.Dungeons: Fun.Adventures: Monotonous.
RNG: not so good but improving.PvP: Enjoyable if you put the effort in.Itemization: bad but should be fixed with upcoming changes.Attunement: Nerfed and far easier as long as you can at least complete a dungeon.	
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If you have the willingness and drive to go find a guild that will help you catch up... then this game can be a lot of fun because doing the dungeons and raids with people you know can be tremendous fun.  
If you don't, I think even the 5man content alone will dry up.. though more content is coming.
 
I don't like WOW so cannot say how it compares. I quit this game because I wasn't in a place in my life to look for a new guild and my guildies are happy with our main MMO.  This game sucks as a side project because 1-50 is SUPER FUN but 50+ without a static is not fun, or at least it wasn't for me.
I have different tastes and expectations than you, you honestly have no idea what it is like until you get to 50 yourself and see what's what.
 
I hate dailies, I'm a huge fan of pugs (and WildStar really messed up over and over on that aspect imho), dungeons are my life, waiting for 5 people all the time isn't my cup of tea, etc.
 
PSO2, DDO, more my speed.  If you're into PVP and WvW, GW2 is still way way way better.  
 
Judge for yourself.  Don't expect unbiased opinions.	
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WildStar is better than WoW in every way... it has more features, more systems. The story is much more epic, and there's more content than you can shake a stick at. Not more than 10 years of WoW, but that's just a matter of time.
 
WildStar is my long-term game after being a WoW player for 10 years.	
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Personally I think it is.  I have no plans to play any other MMO for the foreseeable future.
 
I wouldn't go back to WoW if you paid me.	
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Would you stick with Wildstar or get your characters ready for another MMO's expansion coming up? What is Wildstar end game like in comparison to other MMO's?
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WildStar is better than WoW in every way... it has more features, more systems. The story is much more epic, and there's more content than you can shake a stick at. Not more than 10 years of WoW, but that's just a matter of time.
 
WildStar is my long-term game after being a WoW player for 10 years.
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I've been a huge World of Warcraft fan for years but eventually got bored and about 6 months ago took a break from WoW.
 
Since then I've played Guild Wars 2, Wildstar, SWTOR, Final Fantasy XIV, and Elder Scrolls Online.
 
The only game that's been able to hold my attention is Wildstar....However, I have not invested a significant amount of time into it.
 
My fear is that when I reach end game content it will not be the game I was expecting. What I LOVE about "other MMO's" is the massive amount of end game content.
 
Would you stick with Wildstar or get your characters ready for another MMO's expansion coming up? What is Wildstar end game like in comparison to other MMO's?
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 Hell, Enigma still hasn't cleared Datascape, and they're the creme de la creme of Wildstar raiding.  I think only seven guilds have managed to field 40 man teams with the dedication and skill to enter Datascape.
 
They're reducing some of the barriers for entry, but not the content, which is probably a good way forward.  However, if you're looking to invest more time, that might not matter.  Most complaints are that people don't have time anymore.
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yeah it's a new game, a 2014 game with so many GIGANTIC flaws that its life won't be long.
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People haven't cleared Datascape yet cause playerbase is dropping like flies, 
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Huh? What sense does that make?  You only need 40 to clear the raid… the guilds in Datascape field that without a problem. The content is good and hard.
 
Period.
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Huh? What sense does that make?  You only need 40 to clear the raid… the guilds in Datascape field that without a problem. The content is good and hard.
 
Period.
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Done with WoW I do not like what become of it. The new expansion is just MoP part 2 only because not much has change besides stats, lore and talents. I've played other games such as this, GW2, Archeage, FFXIV ARR and a few others and seen what they've offered.
 
If WoW had a different combat system or talent tree similar to the games I said in this post I might reconsidered. New models isn't going to cut it since I've already tested them out on the ptr.
 
If this game becomes f2p so be it, but that's if they want to go towards that route. These guys seem like they do not want to which is why they're fixing up their errors fast.
 
Even if this game was successful at the start many would of left the game for WoD or whatever new comes out until the sensation is over and then they return to Wild Star maybe.	
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Thank you forum police...I have restructured my question....
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The only thing Wildstar have over wow is the combat system as in double jump, sprint, dash and telegraphs, Costume and housing. In every other way it fails miserably, yeah it's a new game, a 2014 game with so many GIGANTIC flaws that its life won't be long.
 
To the OP, when WoD hits, Wildstar will start it's move to F2P, i wish this wasn't the case but the devs have shown us how lost and completely desperate they are, imo stick to WoW, it will still outlast most mmos till Devs can think outside of oldschool grindhouse boredom.
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Well, game's been out for three months and already going to mega-servers... will let that speak for itself.
 
As for the rest, been summed up somewhat decently so far in the other replies.  Seems every time I try to give my own personal honest opinion/experiences to answer this question, it ends up completely backfiring and just adding to said "experiences"... so will just say "yup, what ^some-of-them^ said". -_-	
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Chua not understand.
Why every Human using "megaserver" as excuse to smacktalk about game?
If anything bad, is that not did mega-server technology sooner.	
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Any game is worth the "investment" of your time if YOU are having fun.  If you are not, vote with you wallet and find something that suits you.
 
It becomes a subjective personal opinion in that one has to asses if they are having fun or not.  Each MMORPG suffers from this same question.  Most of the popular MMORPGS today are based off of the "Theme Park" model whether they be subscription based or are F2P.
 
Each gamer really needs to use their own personal fun meter to assess how they wish to invest their time and treasure.
 
All that said, I want WS to succeed but, if you ( or anyone reading ) is seriously contemplating this question ( whether this game or another ) then the contemplation of the question is your answer.	
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Well, game's been out for three months and already going to mega-servers... will let that speak for itself.
 
As for the rest, been summed up somewhat decently so far in the other replies.  Seems every time I try to give my own personal honest opinion/experiences to answer this question, it ends up completely backfiring and just adding to said "experiences"... so will just say "yup, what ^some-of-them^ said".
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Wildstar has some great ideas that others have mentioned: dashing, sprinting, double-jumping, and housing are the standouts. The combat system for all it's been lauded is actually not that fun as its implemented. Rotations are boring (many classes have a 2-button rotation), skills that don't interact with each other, boring amps and ability tiers, and nearly unplayable if you have lag over 300ms.
 
As for whether its worth your time, if you are looking for an MMO you could do worse than Wildstar. I just recently started raiding with my guild and it was actually quite disappointing. While I am not a top raider by any stretch, I've read posts and interviews with them and I feel the same way after having stepped into GA. The mechanics are frustrating, very unforgiving, buggy, and monotonous. That said, each new patch generally adds great improvements and I'm willing to see what happens over the next few months. Once WoD comes out though, WS will have some stiff competition if it wants to keep my subscription money.	
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 Chua .. I used to love reading your comments. I did.. But when you stopped using logic and reason and decided to go into full on Fanboi mode to the point even when PVP was known as an issue day one and you would comment in something you had no knowledge.. and still defend carbine I lost respect for you. 
 
The joke is dead.	
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Chua not understand.
Why every Human using "megaserver" as excuse to smacktalk about game?
If anything bad, is that not did mega-server technology sooner.
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 What is Wildstar end game like in comparison to other MMO's?
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Because it wasn't part of their design plan for the past 10 years, but is now due to changing of environment. (its a reaction, not an action)
 
Yes its great and should've been done sooner.
 
Most of the lamenting is why it wasn't done until basically forced to be the case. (so as a phoenix, rising from the ashes)
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Yeah maybe it's amazing for american ppl. But in europe we speak multiple languages, so we have to play with all kind of nationalities. Not everyone understands english, so this could be hard for some ppl. Have a look at our dungeon groups, when you allow cross server groups: chat is barely used, some people just leave the group without even trying to have a conversation...
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I'd recommend it as long term game. Here we are, over 3 months into the game, and I now feel I know all the PvE stuff prior to the raids well. Even then, the 5-mans are still hard, and if you make too many errors on a boss, you will wipe. And there's so much more.
 
Since the patch, with the new rewards, people are filling the world events, killing world bosses and re-running the dungeons for Golds. And Golds in the Dungeons are challenging. Gold STL is *not* easy. Crafting is good and the way the economy is woven around salvaging, harvesting and crafting (with the voucher system) is very clever. There is enough money to do what you need, and enough sinks to stop mega inflation. Watching the price of CREDD and epics since launch has shown that.
 
I haven't had enough time to progress in PvP, but that's something I'm hoping to do over the next month or so, hopefully fitting around raid nights. And then there's alts. Definite advantages to Alts, with multi professions active at once, resource plots in your house etc.
 
If you like the game, and can cope with the difficulty, then IMO, it's worth long term time investment. As others have said in this thread, I'm not going back to wow and I was in that from vanilla. The Devs *are* listening, there is so much evidence of that, although I feel people often confuse the Devs researching and planning a change (i.e. taking the right amount of time on it) with them not listening. You will never please the "Entitlement" crowd.
 
I posted in the "I'm IN" thread, that's a good place to look for what people see the long term future of the game.	
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Good game, that's certain.
Supported game, that's certain.
Evolving game, that's certain.
 
If you are bored of WoW and want to find a game that has the potential to grow, Wildstar is your best bet for now in my humble opinion. Yes, a bet is a bet and nothing is certain. Yes the games as flaw. But the difference is that the team is currently supporting the game and making the require change. Until the Dev stop supporting the game like many MMO before, I'm not gonna give up on the game.
 
If you are looking for a game where you can sink your time in because you are tired to ask yourself: what am I gonna play tonight? Well that game is that kind of game for me, and hopefully it will be yours too.	
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			Maintain a good Work/Life/Game balance, whatever you do.  I average maybe an hour a night in Wildstar - some nights I don't log on at all, other nights I play later than I should.  Depends on what I'm building.  Yes, housing is my drug in this game.	
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I'd call this game great, one of the best games made so far.   It's problems are not gigantic  they are tiny,  just a lot of tiny problems but if you overlook it and just play the game you will enjoy it a lot.
 
Just don't play it like you did WoW or any other game,  it's not a brain dead game like those ones.	
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As with any game, if you're enjoying yourself so far, then invest your time until you realize you're not having fun anymore, and then move on to the next entertainment of choice.
 
Don't let other people form your opinions for you. Experience WS's endgame for yourself before deciding if it's worth your time.	
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Because it wasn't part of their design plan for the past 10 years, but is now due to changing of environment. (its a reaction, not an action)
 
Yes its great and should've been done sooner.
 
Most of the lamenting is why it wasn't done until basically forced to be the case. (so as a phoenix, rising from the ashes)
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			FFXI  had that first,  it was very fun to use it too.. mm I miss  FFXI  should go play that too.	
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Haha... saying WoW is braindead, agreed. saying Wildstar is not, disagree.
It's still an MMO, Sit down, take a drink and watch some movie while texting and playing the game = can be played if braindead haha.	
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FFXI  had that first,  it was very fun to use it too.. mm I miss  FFXI  should go play that too.
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FFXI was the game to start it (and might be the only one to use auto translate / pre-set cross language terms besides XIV).
 
People forget FFXIV was supposed to be the best of FFXI distilled...
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Except that WoW is mindnumingly easy. I will never go back there.
 
 
 
On Hazak Datascape, 2nd boss downed server first was a recent achievement. A lot of guilds are anywhere between 2/6GA and 5/6GA. So we most definitely have enough people. And Datascape is hard. Hell even Genetic Archives are hard. But then again you probably haven't seen either of them.
 
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Personally I think it is.  I have no plans to play any other MMO for the foreseeable future.
 
I wouldn't go back to WoW if you paid me.
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  People got set in what servers, what's available, naming conventions (and reserved names which were a perk of pre-order that will no longer matter for anything), etc.
 
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Anyone can claim the name on their servers once;
 
But what if you had to race to get your name multiple times?
 
Could you still get the name you wanted?
 
 
Hardcore.
 
 
P.S. Make name's only last for 3 months, watch the race to reclaim them and the tears of those who miss out, hardcore!
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			I was a huge Wildstar fan and loved it all the way to 50 . But then the honeymoon was over and the sheer disappointment set-in . They built a game millions would love Exp # . Combat Design , Humor , Graphic , Housing , Personal Effects , Instance Lore , but instead of leaving it alone and letting millions enjoy , they decided to twink it and run only one skill level (Hardcore)and run 95% off . Why ??? At the end of the day , the worst development strat ever . Great game , that millions will never get to experience because a vast amount of reasons . Maybe one day they get someone in charge that doesn't have a problem of also running normal modes  Only reason you will get is elite selfish players worry about what normal players are doing and to me that so sad to think they care what I,m doing and so blind that developers thought they should care also .	
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Yeah too bad my guild have been working on System Daemons for a month and a half now, you know whats hard about the fight ? Teaching 15 new people every fkn week what to do on it, because the population skill and raid experience in this game is REALLY BAD, the PR move to call this game hardcore blablabla did it's toll on atracting young people that have zero experience on raids or any social skill to actually grind a boss for more then 3 days worth of progression, oh look i didn't get any loot this week, well time to quit, bye everyone.
 
As i said several times in these forums, any white knight that thinks this game is any hard because all mmos they played were basically a macro fest, think again, this game is dumbshit easy if you ever played any action game in your life, the problem is low skilled population with several inbalance in itemization, amp, class and on top of that bugged bosses that can't fkn work for over 3 months now. Do you know that interrupters in system daemons should get a 30% dmg buff but it STILL DOESN'T WORK ? Yeah, raiding here is so hard.
 
Also for the record, i'm beyond bored with wow combat system because there isn't much movement involved into it, the rotation and teamwork was always the focus on that mmo, fights like Heroic Lei Shen were truly hard BEFORE NERFS FOR CASUALS. Now tell me, did you ever kill any top boss before farming the raid for more then 2 months ? Cause most people that bash the shit of wow only get to kill end bosses after they were destroyed by nerfs. I've raided in several top 10 us guilds, if you want to know what truly hardcore is, go roll 5 alts that u play as good as your main to funnel gear in a giant spreadsheet between peoples main characters to progress fast, that's what truly fkn hardcore is, not this timegated joke Wildstar have.
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Highlighted the important parts.
1. Population skill is bad, but the game is not hardcore? 
 
The game isn't hardcore, because playerbase is lacking on skill it doesn't make a game hard, it's just the pop that is bad.
2. Not for the MMO crowd. The only comparable MMO that's even close to this would be Tera. Even Guild Wars 2 dungeons and bosses are mindnumingly easy in comparrison to this. MMO crowd is not the same as single player game crowd. Meaning that for an MMO this is hardcore. 
 
Because MMO players only play MMOs ? I'm sorry but the only thing this game requires is interrupts and dodging, every single class rotation is 2-3 keys and STACK 1 STAT FOREVER.
3. My boyfriend's mother even finished all the MoP's raids in WoW with us, and she can't level past level 7 without dying here. So yes, for the record, I know raids in WoW and they're not hard at all. 
Finishing a raid doesn't mean much, did she kill Heroic Garrosh in 2013 or she did it in like june 2014 ? Theres a massive difference in gear gap between that, not to mention strat copy and VP upgrades, saying wow raids are not hard at all only make me think you didn't clear enough heroic content at it's current state with bad gear.
4. Wildstar is actually less timegated than most MMOs. In Guild Wars 2 you can only try getting gear in Fractals of the mists, once per day, per account. It will take you a moth per best in slot necklace. It will take you at least 4 months to gear up 1 character in pinks and that's if you do EVERYTHING (dailies, fractals of the mists and level 500 crafting that is also timegated). In WoW you can raid around once a week. In Tera dungeons also have daily lockouts. It's an MMO. No MMO is timegate free. 
 
There are several timegates in Wildstar, raid attunement was a big mistake since day one, 40 man raids are a big mistake, i've raided in several MMOs at a VERY competitive guild position and i can say WoW have the best raiding model period, because what matter is that the content there can be taken at any time your guild wants to log in and raid, all you need is the skill to push the content, consumables fors instance aren't as much of a pain as every consumable is in Wildstar, WoW devs understood that people want to do important content at their pace be it LFR or Mythic content, all they really have to do is log in to down a boss and grab the best gear for pve from there, in Wildstar things work differently, raiding is too much of a bother for crappy rewards, lonnnnng ass grind and terrible support in case something is mislooted by the ML, the amount of time x reward in WS is bad, really bad. That's one of the main reasons people are quitting, and no matter how much people try to sugarcoat it in these forums, the game have archaic system designs for an MMO, that alone will make it sink ( as it have been sinking).
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Highlighted the important parts.The game isn't hardcore, because playerbase is lacking on skill it doesn't make a game hard, it's just the pop that is bad.
That makes it hard. Saying "lacking on skill" is the same as saying "hard for the majority" which is the same as "hard". I don't care how good you're on Dark souls or anything, but if the majority of population can't do it, it classes the game as hard.
 
Because MMO players only play MMOs ? I'm sorry but the only thing this game requires is interrupts and dodging, every single class rotation is 2-3 keys and STACK 1 STAT FOREVER.
Yes, I remember pressing only 2 keys on my Medic and my Esper. If you're doing this that makes you a really really bad player. And interrupts and dodging is more than what other games require. 
Finishing a raid doesn't mean much, did she kill Heroic Garrosh in 2013 or she did it in like june 2014 ? Theres a massive difference in gear gap between that, not to mention strat copy and VP upgrades, saying wow raids are not hard at all only make me think you didn't clear enough heroic content at it's current state with bad gear.
So finishing a raid doesn't mean much, but the game is totally harder than Wildstar, where people can't even finish dungeons?
 
There are several timegates in Wildstar, raid attunement was a big mistake since day one, 40 man raids are a big mistake, i've raided in several MMOs at a VERY competitive guild position and i can say WoW have the best raiding model period, because what matter is that the content there can be taken at any time your guild wants to log in and raid, all you need is the skill to push the content, consumables fors instance aren't as much of a pain as every consumable is in Wildstar, WoW devs understood that people want to do important content at their pace be it LFR or Mythic content, all they really have to do is log in to down a boss and grab the best gear for pve from there, in Wildstar things work differently, raiding is too much of a bother for crappy rewards, lonnnnng ass grind and terrible support in case something is mislooted by the ML, the amount of time x reward in WS is bad, really bad. That's one of the main reasons people are quitting, and no matter how much people try to sugarcoat it in these forums, the game have archaic system designs for an MMO, that alone will make it sink ( as it have been sinking).So you mean, a game that was most loved for its vanilla, that had the attunement process that lasted months, is doing it right by appealing to casuals by nerfing to the floor and making sure that any idiot can go with you? Yes, yes, it's getting it so right, but wildstar is the one that is easy! 
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1. Population skill is bad, but the game is not hardcore? 
 
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 correct. low population skill doesn't mean the game is hardcore, it means the good players already left or stayed away in the first place
 
It's actually weird when you have a person that was in two different games that you can compare to. People that did great in WoW, didn't even make it to level 50 here. 
 
 
I have never played Tera or GW2, I do play quite a few other MMO's LOTRO, WoW, TSW, SWTOR etc
I don't find Wildstar Hardcore, just tedious
 
Out of the ones that you listed, I find WoW to be incredibly tedious. Even for its slow leveling process of half paying attention alone. Took me my whole Winter Holidays to hit level 90 on my rogue (that's around 4 weeks), took me less than a week here. And even that is nowhere near as tedious as PW, or EQ. 
 
 
It is easy to carry people through raids, always has been. doesn't matter if its RIft or WoW or whatever other game you raid in, WoW's heroic raids are no joke, lei shen when current was not faceroll, Garrosh is not faceroll.
 
 
Actually Garrosh most definitely is. Not hard to get to him too. It took LFR hours after release to clear it. Why is LFR even easier than organized anyway? Like what's the point in gimping yourself? 
 
 
The main problem wannabe elitists seem to have with WoW is that it caters to players of all skill levels. A solo instanced fight like Kanrethad in WoW is a very challenging fight, challenge modes are challenging if your group isn't doing it for the 100th time, brawlers guild and proving grounds both can be very challenging. but haters choose to  focus on how easy the easiest content in WoW is while conveniently forgetting to mention the content that is tough  Nothing in WIldstar or any other MMO I have played for that matter can come close to the Kanrethad fight in terms of difficulty for a single player.
 
you see, you can't avoid easy content. You can't make the leveling harder, or dungeons not so steamroll. It's boring. By catering to everyone it made itself boring. It no longer does grand or interesting things either. Last grand thing in WoW that I remember is probably Cataclysm. Nothing since. No grand openings of raids anymore, no grand raids, no attunement, no anything interesting for that matter. 
 
Plus I never understood what are WoW lowers even doing here? After all, if you love an MMO, stick with it. Been trough several different MMOs in my life and I never felt like I needed a "backup one" if I was enjoying the one that I liked. 
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			Yes it is. I know I am going to be here for the long haul I will never get tired of killing Chua in BGs. What would make this game the best ever made is two things. Tony Hawk physics for the hover board and a MOBA map for endgame.	
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Highlighted the important parts.The game isn't hardcore, because playerbase is lacking on skill it doesn't make a game hard, it's just the pop that is bad.
That makes it hard. Saying "lacking on skill" is the same as saying "hard for the majority" which is the same as "hard". I don't care how good you're on Dark souls or anything, but if the majority of population can't do it, it classes the game as hard.
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			I've never understood this mentality that WoW is so easy just because it offers an easy mode for people who aren't as skilled/have less time/etc. WoW is hard in a different way. Sure WS has many more movement mechanics and dodging and interrupts, but WS has the most boring skill rotations I've ever seen. The perfect example of this is the Forgemaster last boss in KV. The disk phases and collecting fireballs are actually really fun and feel rewarding, but in the normal DPS phases I just sit and spam basically two buttons, using a stun when necessary. Where WoW may have less focus on movement and positioning, WoW roations are infinitely more complex and rewarding. Keeping optimal DPS is a game in itself on using resources effectively, managing cooldowns, and a priority rotation based on proc abilities. As a Medic and Warrior, it's basically "have actuators/kinjetic energy? spam GR/Rampage." I will say WS is more unforgiving, but that's not the same as difficult. WS has many more bugs and latency is a huge factor. I can't tell you how many times in GA players' screens will freeze for a few secons, get a lag spike for several seconds, or a bug totally screws someone over and they die. Feel free to call that hardcore if you want, I call it frustration.	
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Thank you forum police...I have restructured my question....
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Played WoW, Lotro, ESO, SWOTR, GW1/2 and tera.
 
Im only new to wildstar. But solo killing a 5 man boss alone, purely based on skill was probably 1 of the most awesome feelings i had in a long time. Timing taunts, dodges, pots, staying at range.
In no other game did i feel i killed a beast purely by outplaying it.
Its why im really liking this game.  Just found a guild and plan on playing it a lot. Now i just need to find the class for me ;)	
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Played WoW, Lotro, ESO, SWOTR, GW1/2 and tera.
 
Im only new to wildstar. But solo killing a 5 man boss alone, purely based on skill was probably 1 of the most awesome feelings i had in a long time. Timing taunts, dodges, pots, staying at range.
In no other game did i feel i killed a beast purely by outplaying it.
Its why im really liking this game.  Just found a guild and plan on playing it a lot. Now i just need to find the class for me ;)
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It's a fun ride and worth playing.  I can't speak to end game yet, but I've leveled a few toons up and have had much fun.  
 
For end game PvP?  No idea yet.  But hey, Warcraft abandoned the PVP seasons like 6 months ago, so they weren't offering *anything* for end game PvP either for so long, it gave Wildstar room to breathe.  I'm not even sure if I'll try WoD, as it was insulting for them to drop PvP seasons in the middle of my 6 month subscription.	
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Oh, I absolutely loved Tera! Having soloed team bams I honestly don't know which game is harder. In Wildstar it's skill + gearing up the right way, while in Tera anyone can kill bams as long as they're not mid attack when the enemy starts doing his. Both are most definitely harder than Elder Scrolls Online and Guild Wars 2.
 
I didn't even try ESO cause it was right in the face from their videos the game was going to blow, GW2 is prob the one mmo i got excited the most lvling from 1-10 then getting completely bored from 20-30, tbh i couldn't even go past lvl 30, the zones were so terrible quest wise i pvped a lot then retired the game. Wildstar as many stated on this topic and others, have a lot of movement required but the rotation is fairly simple for all classes.
 
  Easier than vanilla. Burning Crusade and upwards is where dungeons became no longer exausting. Cataclysm is where the raid difficulty was nerfed to the floor. My opinion - both were bad decisions. Thank godness for the ability to get a private server when you want to remember the good days.
 Nostalgia glasses that you can still revisit by hosting a private server. I'm not using casual in the amount of time had sense, we all have jobs and families, we're not teenage boys sitting in our mother's basements. And yes, with all the flaws, with all the unfinished zones, with all the annoying quests, with all the lack of quests, the most enjoyable part of World of Warcraft for me was vanilla. Lore wise it's Cataclysm that lost me. And I'm so glad, that unlike life simulation genre, the MMO genre is not dominated by one sole entity. That we have choice. That's why I never get why people that obviously love this other game, choose to spend time bashing games on random forums.
 
Cataclysm raids weren't ez pz, H ragnaros was one of the hardest fights ever set on WoW, HSpine of Deathwing cockblocked guilds for ages, i'm not sure which game u were playing then but i'm sure it wasnt the edge of heroic raiding before they nerfed the content for casuals.
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Well i am bored right now, cant play the AH cause of emm stupids bots that ruined it earlier on >< , now population crisis makes selling stuff blehh
I mean i put a Raiden legging for 10g thats 10 freaking gold and no one brought it o_0
 
Now with monthly gone meh i have nothing else to do other than spam Adventures and dungeons(Maybe ill redo my house)
 
I think ill just sell all my Cred and subscribe early Jan going to be away playing another game till then	
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Just a comment. WoW had among the easiest 'raids' of it's time. 
 
Difficulty is by nature a relative statement. Compared to OG EQ and OG FFXI, even the hardest raids in WoW were not difficult.
 
That's not to say anyone and their mother could walk into WoW raids, or that they weren't challenging (some very much were quite challenging); but that in the truest sense of difficulty as a relative measure; WoW raids were not as difficult as the HNM's of FFXI or the raids of EQ. 
 
 
My two cents,
Naz	
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Well i am bored right now, cant play the AH cause of emm stupids bots that ruined it earlier on >< , now population crisis makes selling stuff blehh
I mean i put a Raiden legging for 10g thats 10 freaking gold and no one brought it o_0
 
Now with monthly gone meh i have nothing else to do other than spam Adventures and dungeons(Maybe ill redo my house)
 
I think ill just sell all my Cred and subscribe early Jan going to be away playing another game till then
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Nobody buys Raidin' gear.  We all had well over a hundred boom boxes.  I sold two full sets at least in the first two months after release.
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Then you must have been hacking or stupid lucky because I have well over 150 and I only got the gloves so far. All I seem to get is the same f'n exile blue dye. I have 30+!!! I don't even bother opening them anymore.
 
(OT) I'd hold off on investing significant time. Sadly I think carbine has gone into defensive mode. They're taking way to long to fix problems(If at all) and seem more interested in showing they are in control by refusing to address things immediately.
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 Drop 3 is turning out to be a big one for updates. Personally, the news of decor limit increases has given me an absolute Yes, it is worth it.
 
For players still unsure, buy some CREDD, wait for Drop 3, then you'll know what's up.	
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From someone who has played/playing WoD Alpha, you are seriously mistaken if you think it even comes close to Wildstars' Combat, Dungeons and Raids, Housing. Do not let Blizzard pull the wool over your eyes. JS.
 
Oh and the 'remodel' chars are not even close to the detail in Wildstars Chars. WoD is another MoP fail. Rehashed and reskinned.	
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Your definition of "too long" is a symptom of today's smartphone, internet driven fast paced western society.  Maybe you need to get a public sector job to see how long things take to happen there, so you can adjust your definition.
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Why are people still comparing apples and oranges, talking about how EZ another games is and talking about the easy modes, it would be like comparing SWTOR ezmode vs raids here... then again not much difference between SWTOR ezmode vs SWTOR nightmare mode.
 
Having played with some of the old gamer geriatrics that reference EQ2 and other old MMOs what not the guys on the wrong end of 40-50, all I can tell you unless their response times have slowed signiticantly I can't see them having done hard content because of how poor they were at current raids.
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
Just a comment. WoW had among the easiest 'raids' of it's time. 
 
Difficulty is by nature a relative statement. Compared to OG EQ and OG FFXI, even the hardest raids in WoW were not difficult.
 
That's not to say anyone and their mother could walk into WoW raids, or that they weren't challenging (some very much were quite challenging); but that in the truest sense of difficulty as a relative measure; WoW raids were not as difficult as the HNM's of FFXI or the raids of EQ. 
 
 
My two cents,
Naz
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If you're interest is PVP then no.. at the moment its completely broken. Since release  there has only been a week where balance was somewhat decent... Carbine just can not figure it out.
 
If you like PvE then definitely its worth it	
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To answer the OP, if you enjoy raiding it will probably be worthwhile as long as you enjoy the raiding and find a decent/active guild.
 
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SO MUCH THIS
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			At this time no, there is tons of timesinks that give you little reward for the amount of time you put into the game. They need to remove all the grinding and gating/attunment that no one has the time for.	
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From someone who has played/playing WoD Alpha, you are seriously mistaken if you think it even comes close to Wildstars' Combat, Dungeons and Raids, Housing. Do not let Blizzard pull the wool over your eyes. JS.
 
Oh and the 'remodel' chars are not even close to the detail in Wildstars Chars. WoD is another MoP fail. Rehashed and reskinned.
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Why are people still comparing apples and oranges, talking about how EZ another games is and talking about the easy modes, it would be like comparing SWTOR ezmode vs raids here... then again not much difference between SWTOR ezmode vs SWTOR nightmare mode.
 
 
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Your definition of "too long" is a symptom of today's smartphone, internet driven fast paced western society.  Maybe you need to get a public sector job to see how long things take to happen there, so you can adjust your definition.
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Thank you. Sheesh, most of this new generation of humans is reaaaaally immature and completely undisciplined.
 
@OP
 
If you like what you see, try it. $60 is really not a lot of money at all. You spend $60 on basic life needs every single DAY pretty much unless you're jobless and eating nothing but ramen noodles. Unless you're in poverty you can probably afford to shell out $60 on fun, even if you end up not liking it in the long run.
 
Personally I love Wildstar. Pretty much all of its features are more engaging and more entertaining than WoW's in every way.
 
Housing is a game all in itself.
Combat speaks for itself, makes WoW look like a turn-based game.
PvP actually takes skill, not just learning a rotation, but is also accessible to newbies. Low skill floor, very high skill ceiling.
Dungeons make WoW's raids look easy.
Raids are on another level entirely, I don't think anyone's even beaten Datascape yet (though I could be wrong, I don't follow what the huge Guilds are doing).
Solo content and Lore are interesting, witty, funny, and engaging. Questing to level 50 isn't boring at all.
World Story and the characters (Dominion/Exile Leaders, The Caretaker, Drusera, The Strain, Torine, etc.) are all more fleshed out and interesting than anything in WoW.
The work put into cutscenes, voice acting, emotes, and other things that bring characters to life is on a whole other level to WoW. It makes WoW look like a nintendo64 game.
The music. This is the only MMO that I can't bear to turn off the music. I usually listen to EDM or something while I'm playing. Here, I can't. WoW's soundtrack is trash. Wildstar's is epic, on the level of a AAA single-player RPG title or feature film.
 
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Although I don't agree with all of your opinions, thought I would give you some more facts and other viewpoints.
combat/PVP taking skill is two parts: movement and rotations. You brush half of combat off by saying it's "not just learning a rotation" because rotations are very important in combat. Maybe you don't like that part of combat, but I do and I feel that's where WS's combat is very lacking. Most classes take 2 or 3 button presses to maximize your DPS and frankly it's very dull.
Heroic raids in WoW are very difficult, so maybe I can see if you are comparing it to LFR/Normal modes. That said, most guilds still haven't cleared raids because of inherent design flaws and bugs. There are massive bugs, balance issues, ridiculous amount of grinding for attunement, and huge gear gaps because of poor itemization in the current raid content. Those are the main factors why raids haven't been cleared. If you did follow any raiding guilds, most will tell you that the raids aren't that difficult.
The rest is opinion and I agree that WS has great lore and a unique story. But saying WS is "more fleshed out" than a game that has been around for 10 years and spawned numerous novels is clearly not possible. I personally like WoW's story and I think MoP cutscenes, acting, and music are top notch.
 
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I was just listening to this because it popped up on youtube but I think it shows the problem with most people who play mmos anymore. Well or ever I suppose as this was made years ago.....
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUM960MAbx0	
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Nobody buys Raidin' gear.  We all had well over a hundred boom boxes.  I sold two full sets at least in the first two months after release.
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More buttons =/= better combat. It means more button mashing and memorization, not more complexity. Maxing your rotation in WoW is the same as in Wildstar, it's just a bunch more arbitrary button spam, and it completely lacks the dodging/aiming/LoS component.
Attunement is fixed, read patch notes. Itemization is no worse than how WoW's used to be, don't know the state of it now but you'd think after four expansions it'd be right, I'd certainly hope so since Blizzard is a massive powerhouse company with almost unlimited resources and Carbine is an upstart.
Read my post again, I did not say the lore is more fleshed out. WoW would be the most pathetic RPG ever made if its Lore was not heavily diverse after ten years PLUS the fact that it was based on a pre-existing franchise. WoW fans ALWAYS forget that Warcraft 1, 2, and 3 existed. xD Wildstar started FROM SCRATCH. From a brand new company. An entirely new IP. WoW is a sequel to a sequel to a sequel. Anyway, I said the characters are fleshed out, not the lore. And I never mentioned novels or any outside material. I mean in the game, from the content, and the player's interactions with the characters. WoW characters are mostly bland questgivers.
 
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I never said more buttons = better combat. In fact I love the LAS system that both GW2 and WS use. Skill bloat was a major reason I got tired of playing WoW but also the reason WoD has got my interest again is because of how many abilities are being removed or combined. And I also agreed I love the dodging/aiming/LoS component. We are in total agreement. However, my point was that WS has a boring rotation and you didn't provide any proof to the contrary. Most classes use very few buttons to be effective. Abilities also do not influence each other. WoW has many abilities that proc each other, reduce CDs or increase damage of other abilities, etc. WS has none of this. The only procs we get are for crits or deflects, that's about it. And hardly any of our abilities affect our other abilities. WoW rotations have a priority system that always keeps it interesting, where WS where you just use your 2 main abilities as often as possible, throwing in 1 or 2 support abilities on CD. My point is that people are saying that WS combat is better and I'm saying it's not "better", it's different. They've shifted the challenge from knowing your class and perfecting a rotation to dodging and moving.
Attunement has been fixed yes, but the fact that it was such a high bar (mostly the 300 PPP to get into Datascape) that it took guilds more time than necessary to get into raids. And comparing the bad itemization to how bad "Wow's used to be" is bad logic and gives WS a free pass. WS has had years to learn from WoW's mistakes so there's no reason for it to be this bad. You said "I don't think anyone's even beaten Datascape yet" so I was just explaining the why no guild has cleared all the raids yet. If you encountered a ridiculous grind to get into the 40-man raids, couldn't find gear good enough to clear the content, and encountered bugs that made the mobs almost impossible to kill, would you want to keep progressing?
I did re-read your post and technically you are correct, you didn't say lore, but you did say world story, and I quote "World Story and the characters (Dominion/Exile Leaders, The Caretaker, Drusera, The Strain, Torine, etc.) are all more fleshed out and interesting than anything in WoW." Again I love the story in WS. I'm just saying the world story is not more fleshed out "than anything in WoW."
 
yes the point of the LAS is exactly that, but I don't think Carbine has SUCCEEDED in doing that. The majority of classes all use the same LAS and AMPs, there is almost no diversity. The only thinking required is if I need to switch out a stun for a CC break, or a debuff for a cleanse.
 
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Chua has opinion about that.
Is cause Humans only care about min/max in build and not look at broader picture in group content.
Chua try to use last night raid as example.
 
Chua experimented with different LAS set up abilities. Not taking cookiecutter healing build and focusing more AoE healing.
Other healing Spellslinger in group focused more on LAS with survivability and Heal over Time.
2x same class, 2x completely different LAS Set up.
 
Raid consisted only of 19 people even. 
Point Chua trying to make is that not always need to focus on min/max. Sometimes just better to look at situation is in and play with given tools according to preference.
Nobody in raid care about being #1 on meter. All aim of raid is:  Get inside, kill what is standing in front of us and have fun as group.
Even if DPS only do 2k dps, or healers only do low HPS, if boss dies at end, everyone happy and did good job.
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I'm not saying there is ONLY one build, but there are very few. That said, most bosses have either soft or hard enrages and DPS does indeed matter as you will definitely wipe if your DPS is lacking. Also raiding is a little more forgiving because there are so many characters, two of the same class are going to run different specs for raid utility. One esper will be the haunt spec, one medic will take the fissure debuff, etc. Still, taking medic as an example, going from single target to aoe dps requires swapping of only one skill. In dungeons, adventures, solo, the vast vast majority of dps specs will be running the same, and I feel its the same for tanks and healers as well.
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because there's only like 2 builds per class on build websites... Oh wait. 
And the exact same situation is in warcraft. There are so called meta builds that everyone copies, making sure that pretty much anyone that you meet will be running a similar rotation and similar skill points.
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Actually since WoW got rid of talent trees and put in the new system it has relieved a lot of cookiecutter builds and allows you to play how you want instead of whats the most dps. And saying a brand new game uses the same system as a 10 year old game doesn't help your argument. And at least every class in WoW has 3 specs, which is 1 more than most builds in WS.
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Specs =/= roles. Each W* class has 2 roles, and at least two specs per (most have more than 2 specs per role)
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{| class="blockquote"
Changing 1 ability on your LAS =/= a new spec
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Changing 1 ability on your LAS =/= a new spec
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Look at it this way:
 
I did a world boss event in Wilderrun not long ago and there were THREE other engineers in our party.
 
They all had ONE thing in common, ONE. They used Electrocute. Their rotations were all different though. One used energy auger a lot, one used dodges to gain volatility and used unstable anomaly for overloads, and the last engineer mostly used pulse blasts for buffs, two bots and electrocute to spend.
 
I on the other hand used photon pulse for 30 vol, target acquisition for 30 vol, instant bio shells for 30 vol and spent 25 vol per bolt caster to refresh my bioshell. Not all Engineers have bots, some do. Not all engineers were using volatility rising or volatile injection.
 
Seriously, you hurt your own position when you make statements like this one because we can no longer accept that you have any intellect to back up ANY of your claims anymore. You want for us to take you seriously but this is the extent of your power of reasoning???
 
I'm seriously done with idiots like you.
 
Additionally: How many destruction warlocks in wow don't use immolate, incinerate and conflagrate.
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Because if there's anything that undermines powers of reasoning, it's angrily lashing out right? And ok you can point our Engineers have some variability, but talk to any Warriors or Medics how much build variety they have.
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{| class="blockquote"
Because if there's anything that undermines powers of reasoning, it's angrily lashing out right? And ok you can point our Engineers have some variability, but talk to any Warriors or Medics how much build variety they have.
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Actually since WoW got rid of talent trees and put in the new system it has relieved a lot of cookiecutter builds and allows you to play how you want instead of whats the most dps. And saying a brand new game uses the same system as a 10 year old game doesn't help your argument. And at least every class in WoW has 3 specs, which is 1 more than most builds in WS.
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Having invested a lot of my own time into this game, I'm finding it harder and harder to say that it would be worth it for anyone else. I used to say to friends, "Wildstar has major content patches every month!" but thats not true any more. The reason I quit GW2 was because there was a long period of time where no new content came out and I just got bored, and Wildstar is going down that same road. I did the entire PvP Blue set grind, and then the AMP and ability point PvP grind, and not a single daggerstone pass queue came up for me. I queued for it a couple times when it first came out, and wasn't terribly impressed. So the last real content was Blighthaven, 2 and a half months ago. As Cupcaked as all the classes seem on PTR right now I doubt we'll be seeing drop 3 this month either.
 
For the last couple months I've always checked the dev tracker on my lunch breaks at work and I've hated weekends because they are always silent. Except now during the week they've been completely silent as well. We're lucky to even see a "Thanks for the report, we're looking into it" these days. I also used to say to friends and potential players that the wildstar devs host live chats twice a week and are extremely active on the forums. Except now the devspeaks are once a week and half of it is crap like fanart or player created replays. Not that the fan art isn't impressive, its just not what I tuned in to hear when devs are there to talk to the player base.
 
I'm on one of the 4 "condensed" servers, and the guild I'm in raids in conjunction with another guild. Tonight our two guilds could barely fill a ten man raid (if those actually existed, but apparently they're not hardcore enough?) let alone a 20. We called it in hopes of a better turn out next week. I'm not holding my breath.
 
So I ended up running siege of tempest keep for the 50th or so time, because the last piece of pre-raid gear I could use drops there. And it actually dropped tonight, the tank leather pants. With 4 sockets. And a medic rolled on it and won. I hope that 70 deflect critical rating serves him well. I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online, and I would have thought by now they would have figured out a system where people could only roll on gear that is for their class and role, but I guess not.  But if being able to take loot that you have no use for appeals to you, I guess this is the game for you?
 
Bug fixes in this game are slow at best. I assume they've just completely given up on fixing medics... all through the pvp grind we had them abusing discharge, which was and still is hitting 10-15 times per cast. Today I rez'd in a Walateki Temple match along with a few other people, jumped down the cliff, and we all instantly died. So that's still going strong. They claim to have fixed Gamma Rays (and in fact hotfixed repeatedly throughout peak time a few days ago) but its still broken. Medics pull ridiculous amounts of threat abusing it, and its a huge headache to try and deal with as a tank. I kinda just want to kick any medic out of the group now, between the threat and them being able to roll on tank gear.
 
As for the LAS discussion, I can't speak for every class but Stalkers have basically no variation. When tanking in raids you use frenzy. When tanking dungeons you use nano field. Its not a matter of preference, one is simply flat out better than the other. My WoW lingo is a bit old as I haven't played since WotLK so please excuse me, but this isn't an issue of Mutilate builds vs backstab builds vs sinister strike builds vs Shiv builds all being competitive with the right gear. Its Use frenzy or your drastically less useful. Sure there is minor variation. You can use Collapse or Stagger as your interrupt. But its not real variation, you're bringing an interrupt and it doesn't matter what that interrupt is named.  There simply aren't enough skills in the game for there to be multiple builds. Sure you can run 2 points or 3 points or even 0 points in your deflect amps, but in the end it makes no significant difference. They tried to copy the limited action set idea from Guild Wars 1 and forgot that that game had hundreds of skills to choose from. Hell, they could probably allow us to run every single skill and not limit it to 8, and we (speaking as a stalker) would still probably play exactly the same as we do now. You could give stalkers 1000 amp points so they could fill out their entire tree and it wouldn't change a thing with how we tank or dps, except perhaps using the 3 unlocked skill amps. Its not a real choice, just the illusion of choices.
 
This is getting long so TL:DR version:
 
Devs aren't listening or speaking to us any more, new content isn't coming out any time soon, population even on the 4 higher population servers is dying, character build customization is basically nonexistent, gamebreaking bugs aren't getting fixed, and medics are assholes.	
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The problem is the wait for drop 3 is taking too long. I hope the long wait will be worth it in the long run and get some subs back. That's why I'm taking a break from this game and playing others, but the longer it takes them to release the patch. The lesser I'll start getting uninterested in this game. Bad enough I dislike perma stealth attacks from assault stalkers and it's painful to fight them on a support warrior since their damage is non existant in pvp compared to a support engineer or stalker. Not that I'm saying theirs is any better, but menacing strike really and sucks polarity field as well. Espers are annoying as ever since their mobility buff making telekentic spam storm easy to access when catching up to an opponent. I can't say much about this game now besides the basic pros and cons.
 
Meh...	
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For the people delusional that rotations exist on this game, if you are raiding as DPS and you don't stack AP and use the best single target or aoe spec, you are doing it wrong, you can keep daydreaming that 2 extra amp points you put into lifesteal have any difference.
 
I play a Warrior, there is only 3 things that matter for me right now, stack AP>Brut>Striketrough>Moxie, i see people with 6% striketrough that have around 2250 ap that have less misses then i do with 9% striketrough because of the deflect debuff some classes can put on the boss, people that believe any of the stats above even get close to mattering are just fooling themselves, STACK AP NOW AND WIN , post patch is STACK BRUT AND THEN AP AND WIN.
 
My rotation can switch only for the terribly implemented Smackdown, isntead of using breaching strikes i pust smackdown there and let GCD eat away my dps. But hey class changes are coming now right ? Things will get better!......not.  I will go from using breaching strikes and savage strikes to literally only using relentless and rampage my rotation will be like this for the ENTIRE FIGHT : 112222122221112222.
 
Man, not sure i'll be able to handle it.	
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For the people delusional that rotations exist on this game, if you are raiding as DPS and you don't stack AP and use the best single target or aoe spec, you are doing it wrong, you can keep daydreaming that 2 extra amp points you put into lifesteal have any difference.
 
 
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There's more than one way to play a warrior and get similar DPS. Experiment a bit.
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Drop down your whiteknight cloak, i reached 1800 on arenas legit, i am currently working on system daemons, AND I'M TELLING YOU THERE ISN'T ANYTHING OUT OF THE FUKING COOKIE CUTTER BUILD THAT CAN WORK, STOP ACTING LIKE A SMARTASS WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW WTF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
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			Alright, folks. I think this thread's time has come to an end. Doesn't seem that there's a lot left that's constructive to say on the topic, so I'm going to lock it up.	
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