118394-wildstar-free-2-play-what-if-ideas-within

== Content ==
			
Intro: been playing F2P games for some time now. Always found it fascinating to observe player opinions, stigma, what does/doesn't sell, etc. As such I feel it would be a fun exercise to see what type of feedback I could provide on such an option if it were to happen in Wildstar. To expand upon this I honestly do NOT want Wildstar to ever go free to play. However if that was to be a forced reality than I would rather it be done as reasonably as possible. Thus this thread.I do not consider boosts to be an acceptable F2P option. It removes a portion of the MMO experience in my opinion. By permitting players to purchase a way to progress beyond that of a normal players rate. I deem this unfair in my eyes. As such I will NOT have anything of the sort included in my suggestions. Sorry.Below are my opinions. Followed shortly thereafter is a questionnaire. Please feel free to provide feedback on all my absurdities I call ideas.My idea behind Wildstar being F2P would be more of a freemium model. With F2P users having 2 character slots. Limited mail usage and auction house use. Until a purchase has been made.  Access TiersF2P
Cannot send/receive mail from/to other players
Cannot utilize auction house
20% lower EXP and reputation rate
Unable to use costumes or dye armor
Unable to use mount cosmetics/path cosmetics
Few plat cap
2x dungeon timers where applicable
B2P - AKA buy the "boxed" version
Full access to mail
Normal EXP and reputation rate
Access to all cosmetic options
No plat cap
Normal dungeon timers
Subscriber
Monthly cosmetic item
15% discount in cash shop
Special subscriber only cash shop section with bonus discount
Normal exp and reputation rate.
Subcriber only cosmetic mount
Small sum of bonus cash shop credit monthly
Priority travel, ie: no taxi cost.
No plat cap
Normal dungeon timers
Expansion trial access for 14 days
 
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 Positive Cash Shop Options this is what in my opinion would be a positive option for a Wildstar cash shop offering. Boosts are not included in this due to aforementioned reasoning above.  Legend
[size=2]CATEGORY
ITEM - REASON
[/size]
 Cosmetics Costumes - no-stat alternative appearance items that could not be reasonably added to the regular game content. Crazy whacky jester outfit, knock-off Santa for x-mas, etc.Weapon Reskins - these would have no impact and if it is kept to the over-the-top ones only, would not hamr the feeling of unlocking something fun through simply playing. Say themed items.Mounts - given that most basic mounts are VERY cheap and that your mount skill generally dictates speed this could be reasonable. So long as the mounts had the absolute basic speed so as to avoid anything remotely close to pay to win. Not to mention there already being a purchasable mount if you count the special edition of the game.Mount Customization - another one in the same category as reskins or costumes. Shouldn't harm too much. Won't effect combat at all. The rare in-game ones shouldn't be comprimised so long as these offerings once again differ from unlockable content.Special emotes - harmless really. Would give a little extra fluff to those looking to be silly, RP, etc. Zero impact on.. well.. anything. Would be bonus silly for those whom want it. Dye - again. Really not very harmful. Keep it to something weird like pearlescant or color-shifting hues. Maybe a pattern or two if possible. The oddball stuff. Distance it from the normal dyes. That way plain colorations should still be sought after with the crazyness of the cash shop being those whom wish to just plain stand out. ServicesBank Expander - unlock more space. Bypass the cost of expanding. Does not harm anything immediately. Inventory space can be kept as-is. Still need to find bags. Won't harm economy given the need for bags despite slight increase in accumlated gold?Costume Slot Expander - once again harmless in my book. We already have a large amount of space for these. Would more hurt if it additional spaces were offered?Character Slot - really something that is generally included in even P2P games. Some people like to have more characters than they could ever need.. and we already have a lot of spaces.Race Change - once again a service seen on many P2P games. Including WoW for many years. Would not harm gameplay. Simply provides people a way to change to a different race without re-rolling.Faction Change - would require a lot of work given faction specific items, quests, etc. If possible this would be a good option too. May be exceptionally difficult.  MiscellaneousBoombox (cash shop variant) - we already earn these. Remove any boosts or statted items. Instead provide a means to get random cosmetics with a special super-rare one as the grand prize in each type. Say make your character glow, hover a little, something unusual yet harmless. NO stats or special effects that would in any manner effect combat (IE: no slow fall buffs). Party Boombox - Permit giftable forms or "party" boxes that hand out items en-mass to anyone nearby (say 10-20 players). Encourages player made events. Could also be re-utilized for GM events. Expansions - with this setup one could still easily charge for expansions. As it is still a setup that would permit such. I really do not see how this would be unreasonable. F2P Unlocker Options - for those of whom do not wish to subcribe but want access to the functionality that cannot use. This wouldn't harm paying users and would allow F2P players to get what they want piecemeal. This is in regards to customization options. "Plat Cap Increase" could also be included. 
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 Negative Cash Shop OptionsBelow are a list of items I would consider detrimental *in my opinion*. Please bear in mind that MY idea of what would be a poor idea may not be the same as your opinion.  Legend
ITEM - REASON
  Boosts - these outright have no place to me. I have stated my reasons above.Statted Items - these offer an advantage even if in the form of leveling gear to me. It once again provides a way to bypass intended mechanics with cash. No. Never.Special Buffs - say speed boosts for your mount or otherwise. These provide advantages as well. Given that they allow you to get around limits someone whom does not wish to spend money can never obtain. This goes double for an subscriber or purchase bonuses.AMP Unlock(s) - lets be honest here. Those little items you work hard to obtain so you can be at maximum effectiveness? Lets keep those out of the cash shop too. They would outright give you a way to be at your best potentially months before others. 
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Questionnaire
How would you feel about Wildstar going F2P?
If you disagree with 1. what do you feel would be the best model for Wildstar?
What would concern you the absolute most about Wildstar going F2P/B2P?
If Wildstar did go F2P what would you consider the best cash shop option(s)?
What would you consider the worst cash shop option(s)?
Do you consider cash shop in general to be a reason avenue for monetization?
Would your friends consider playing Wildstar if it were to go F2P?
Any misc. concerns if Wildstar were to go F2P?
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			Another negative is that communities tend to get worst when a game goes f2p.	
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			Oh FFS, another one.  No.  Short of a level capped "untimed free trial" to 20, there is no version of F2P that I would support.  I would quit Wildstar, and then MMOs altogether because Wildstar gameplay has ruined me for any other MMO.	
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			Just HELL NO	
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Oh god, not another one of these...
 
The game would be crap, like all the other free to plays out there.
 
Game is basically free to play anyway with CREDD. You can't afford a sub cause you have no job? Well stop being lazy or bad with your in game gold and spend a few hours a month farming gold to buy a months sub then	
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			No. God no. Just no.	
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			You understand this is at minimum the 57th time someone has started a thread like this, and that's not counting the literally thousands of posts about it in beta.TL;DR What if we just let Carbine/NCSoft decide how they want to sell their game based on real actual numbers (which is a thing they do, because they hire accountants)?	
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			maybe a mod will come along and merge all these F2P threads into one huge steaming pile of rowsdower dung	
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The hostility in this community is shocking at times. If you disagree with me or the thread I've created than please do so constructively. Not by passive-aggressive behavior intertwined with offensive language.
 
Any threads I have seen on this matter have been subpar with sparse feedback on the matter. Not to mention what what I have said here does not directly pertain to the precise subject being discussed in those that were active in the past. Most of which are also far too old for me to be posting in anyhow.	
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			Why do people insist on having stuff for free? Games aren't free. Deal with it or unsub, please, thanks.	
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Another negative is that communities tend to get worst when a game goes f2p.
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im not going to say anything mean or hateful.
 
But NO.
 
F2P is not the answer to everything.
 
I think the majority feels this way as well.	
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{| class="blockquote"
The hostility in this community is shocking at times. If you disagree with me or the thread I've created than please do so constructively. Not by passive-aggressive behavior intertwined with offensive language.
 
Any threads I have seen on this matter have been subpar with sparse feedback on the matter. Not to mention what what I have said here does not directly pertain to the precise subject being discussed in those that were active in the past. Most of which are also far too old for me to be posting in anyhow.
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F2P ok but not like this !	
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im not going to say anything mean or hateful.
 
But NO.
 
F2P is not the answer to everything.
 
I think the majority feels this way as well.
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			:) im so happy with the responses this thread is getting, gives me hope	
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{| class="blockquote"
The hostility in this community is shocking at times. If you disagree with me or the thread I've created than please do so constructively. Not by passive-aggressive behavior intertwined with offensive language.
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I do understand the willing to change into a F2P : it attracts more players.
 
The fact is, every MMO i played, when they became F2P, they turned badly.
Players from F2P are just the worst : they respect nothing, they keep complaining, they use the chat to say trash and so on.
 
When a game turns into a F2P, it is the end : Cash shop becomes more important than the game itself... How could it be worse ?
 
 
So i would say : NO, i don't want Wildstar to be F2P.
 
(I apologize for my english, i'm not fluent - and it's not my native language)	
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			F2P is just an awful model for any game, mainly for the players.	
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F2P games are not F2P. There is not a single game in the world that is ACTUALLY F2P. It's called "Freemium" and if you want to know what that means, watch the new episode of South Park or something. Free to Play games are a farse, because games take a lot of money to maintain and a game that was absolutely and entirely free would be a massive waste of money.
 
Carbine Devs said Wildstar would never stoop so low as going F2P and I hope they mean it. Because "Free" games are garbage and always will be garbage.If anything, WS should lower the subscription fee or something if they think a cheaper price will attract more players. But personally I think the best way to make the game bigger is a larger Ad campaign. Unfortunately, Ad campaigns cost more than making an entirely new game. Mainstream site and T.V. Ads are REALLY expensive. Even Youtube Ads are REALLY expensive. It's a bit of a vicious cycle that *cupcake*s over small companies like Carbine.
"If you don't have tons of money to start with, you can't run Ads for your game. If you don't run Ads for your game, you don't get enough people invested in order to make your game huge. If you don't make your game huge, you don't make enough money from your game to run Ads." Pretty much. If you're new in the market, you're screwed. I'm just glad WS didn't crash and burn like so many other quality, amazing, ground-breaking subscription AAA MMOs of the past like Auto Assault, Tabula Rasa, etc. which were all amazing games that came around at the wrong time.	
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			Everyone realizes F2P games are poorly setup in a way to push the players to put in more than $10 a month, in fact, much more. On top of that, you get an awful troll filled community with many non-english speaking players (not that we hate them). In the end, very few F2P games handle it in a way that can get enough money without inflicting the players with painful pay or fail situations.	
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Personally I really like paying a sub for the game. I feel Hardcore giving money from the real world or in game equivalent to support my access to the product. F2P will let the currency casuals stream in and I'm firmly against this! 
Waaa!
 
Anyway, Wildstar is basically already buy to play, it needs to introduce a cash shop to stay afloat before NCsoft reaper comes in and dismantles the project. Sad fact. F2P beyond a trial isn't going to settle well with those of us already here. I couldn't give a damn if the game is alive when converted to free MMO with no future #4.	
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			How about not "totally F2P" and at least adopt a "hybrid model" ( a la SWTOR )? 0_o	
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While the ideas you suggested are interesting, I don't want WildStar to go F2P. I used to play Phantasy Star Online 2 (Japan), which is free to play, but had a Premium option which is essentially paying a subscription to access extra features like having your own shop or room. This meant that paying players could get the best gear (non paying players weren't even able to purchase the best gear) and make money far easier than those who weren't paying, which was extremely unfair and essentially turned the game into P2P with a mediocre free option. There was also a huge problem with hackers in PSO2 because they could just make new accounts constantly at no cost to them.
 
With P2P this isn't an issue as everyone is able to access everything and hackers can't make new accounts constantly without having to constantly pay for them. It also helps keep out people who are just making accounts to troll or hurt people.
 
If WildStar did go F2P I would definitely stop playing. I enjoy this game a lot and would be sad to stop but I don't want to play a game where I have to pay for extra features when I can play for free.	
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			No. Nope. No way. Nu uh. Never.	
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I really like the effort you put into this post, and I think you definitely have some really nice ideas (especially the cosmetic cash shop ideas) but overall I don't like the ethics of a freemium game, this would put it very close to the model that archeage has.
 
Now archeage is an alright game, but it's model has basically made it part p2w and that is the reason I stopped playing it. You are at a huge disadvantage in the game without having a subscription and I think that is detrimental on a whole to the player base. It makes people greedy, and the people with subs become elitist towards the "non-paying" people, and offer them help at extortionate rates whilst being patronising at the same time.
 
I would hate to see Wildstar fall into this hole, and would rather know that the money I put into this game is guaranteed to go into content drops and not pointless cash shop reskins.
 
I can understand your frustration at the responses in this thread, whilst they do have a point (the search function alone brings up hundreds of threads which have been locked about f2p model) it would have been nicer to respond at least with an air of civility seeing as it's evident how much you have thought your ideas through and put your thread together.
 
Anyway, tl;dr I would rather see Wildstar stay far away from F2P as long as humanely possible.	
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If I want a cosmetic item in a MMO I work for it.
 
I don't want to use my money to get handed stuff. I pay stuff for a service, for servers and updates. Not items, potions or whatever else "f2p" games throws at you.
 
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As seen here f2p is the devil.
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How about not "totally F2P" and at least adopt a "hybrid model" ( a la SWTOR )? 0_o
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			@OP: Grats, you knew exactly what you were doing, and what you wanted.  And you got it.  Well trolled.	
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			I'd like to point out that if the people who don't pay a subscription get 20% less XP/Rep, then getting a subscription for "normal" Rep/XP is the same as a boost. Look at it the other way: if the 20% less is "normal," then the subscription people now obviously get a boost.	
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{| class="blockquote"
How about not "totally F2P" and at least adopt a "hybrid model" ( a la SWTOR )? 0_o
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{| class="blockquote"
If I want a cosmetic item in a MMO I work for it.
 
I don't want to use my money to get handed stuff. I pay stuff for a service, for servers and updates. Not items, potions or whatever else "f2p" games throws at you.
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			OP, thanks for remaking yet another F2P thread instead of posting in one of the 627 that already exists.
			
				
	Edited November 15, 2014 by BusterCasey	
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			No thank you. i dont want an awesome MMO stuck on "maintain only" income never to be improved and then just RUINED by greed like the rest that will just do PROMO item after PROMO event and cash grab until it crashes into the dirt. then swamed by 1weei/month steamers and left for dead :( dont wish this upon ANY upcoming games	
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If Wildstar ever goes Free To Play, I predict we'll see things like "HARDCORE!" hats for the cheap, cheap price of 5 dollars. A single hat. 5 dollars. Our current subscription is worth 15-20 dollars (depending on if you use CREDD or not). That means our current subscription is worth 3-4 cash shop hats.
That doesn't seem right to me.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Why do people insist on having stuff for free? Games aren't free. Deal with it or unsub, please, thanks.
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No.
 
redirect to the older thread, which lays it out well enough that it doesnt need repeating here.	
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@guymnn999
 
WS for the most part IS a good game but, is still bleeding subs/players.  They only reason I want a hybrid model is that I think that WS, unlike SWTOR, is worth staying subbed too ( even if I am playing WoW also ).  I want the "f2p" component to get more people to play and hopefully once they do, they will sub ( or at least the ones that eventually join the guilds I am in ).  I take that back, I also want the Hybrid model so that Carbine's NCSoft Overlords are placated by those mush minds that will spend more in a month/year than the price of a sub so that WS will still be viable in the NCSoft portfolio.  I would hate to see WS get "NCSofted" ( yes I am starting a verb if it isn't one already ) a la CoH and Tabula Rasa. :P	
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No F2P ... Many reasons against have already been posted here. But he is only trying to find a solution for the lack of "NEW" Players.
 
This is a problem we all as a community should not put aside. Yesterday i had a talk with a lonely chua in Ellevar. I went there by mount to do my daily craft quests and went through all towns. No one was there. I met this chua and he was a former beta player and wondered, where the hell all the players are and why it is so empty. In fact he said that i was the first player he had seen after 6 hours!
 
Later i met two other player ... thats the main problem i guess and thats why always this threads exist and will always be done in the future.
 
F2P is a bad decision to get rid of the missing new playerbase. The main problem is, that nobody knows about this game! Here in Germany, no one i asked, no one in my community have ever seen a commercial from Wildstar. I also see less/ no advertising to make this game popular. Throwing our a sub based MMO is a risk today, but evern Guild Wars 2 had more advertising.
 
Maybe Carbine should find some ways to present this game. This is just an example but I played a lot of Lotro over the years. I just saw it in the steam shop as at an special event. I know not everyone loves steam, but it IS an really good platform for games! Many people get an ad after closing games and i often see new games i give a try. Im just giving ideas ...	
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They need to drop the box price to like 30$ (so 15 for box, 15 for first month) or drop it alltogether.  The sub is fine, many people are prefectly willing to pay to play.  The up-front cost is hurting it.  EVE for example, one of the last successfull sub-model games, no longer has a box price.  Two week free trial, buy a month, you're in, that's all.
 
Also, the lack of advertising and the general hatred in the internet-at-large for Wildstar doesn't help.  Bottom line is that the game was released too early, and now that it's mostly presentable needs to be made as accessible as possible.	
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			W T F is wrong with you f2p people... why do you want to pay MORE ... WHY?	
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			NO. I cannot for the LIFE of me understand why people think F2P is EVER a good idea. Seriously, I pay, what, 15 bucks a month for WS. That's a lunch. And not even an awesome lunch. You probably pay that in coffee in a DAY. F2P ends up costing the players more money in the long run. 	
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make it F2P but make raiding and housing (the only 2 endgame things that majority of people do in wildstar) only accessible with a Sub Fee or Credd.
the idea is that you'd rather have leeches to fill up queues and lowbie zones than nobody at all. and maybesome of those players will end up subbing eventually.	
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No, not anybody can do raids. Only people with a heavy time investment and the willingness to join and participate in a guild as well a raiding schedule, guild politics and everything else that goes along with it can do raiding. That is an absolutely tiny percentage of the mmo populace and leaves a huge untapped market for Carbine.
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They need to drop the box price to like 30$ (so 15 for box, 15 for first month) or drop it alltogether.  The sub is fine, many people are prefectly willing to pay to play.  The up-front cost is hurting it.  EVE for example, one of the last successfull sub-model games, no longer has a box price.  Two week free trial, buy a month, you're in, that's all.
 
Also, the lack of advertising and the general hatred in the internet-at-large for Wildstar doesn't help.  Bottom line is that the game was released too early, and now that it's mostly presentable needs to be made as accessible as possible.
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it is still an uber boring game at max level unless you are into raiding. i mean.. you're gonna do daily zones?... and they are boring (even the new one.. omg those daily quest... ugh). sure sure you can grind the daily zones and keep pushing. but i seriously think a lot of players simply quit when they realise that it is all they ever do (if they are not into raiding) so they quit anyway.
 
pvp ? (no comment).
...
so yeah, just give the game for free and charge a sub for raiding and housing.
almost no players that are not raiders or house builders are left anyway.
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I don't know where you people get the idea that "not having anything to do" at endgame is a unique situation to Wildstar.  I use quotations because it's subjective to the person making the claim. Despite there being hours upon hours of things to do every day, they just aren't the things they like to do.
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{| class="blockquote"
"untimed free trial" to 20
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{| class="blockquote"
a lot of mmos have more to do at endgame, or simply saying; have more of an horizontal endgame to suit different types of players.
without level scaling, with only a linear "lets go to the next daily zone and grind it until i barf" mentality, players not into raiding and housing simply quit. and i would bet that this is a fact.
 
ah and then there is pvp and warplots.
yeah. that.
i mean, its fun but probably not fun enough to have healthy queues (bgs, arenas)  and/or not accessible enough (warplots).
 
so why not just make the game a 2 speed system ? f2p unless you want to raid or have access to housing. you would fill up the lowbie zones and the pvp queues. and have a chance of getting players into subbing eventually.
i think this is ok to milk the hardcores but give it free to the casuals (they are the npcs of the game in a sense).
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"a lot of mmos have more to do at endgame"....
Have you:
 
Maxed out your crafting professions?
Maxed out your cooking?
Maxed out your Housing Plot?
Maxed out all achievements?
Maxed out all reputations?
Collected all BiS Gear?
PvP and Warplots?
Well, if more people actualy signed up and played in them instead of whining about wintrading and resets in the rating, then the problem would solve itself.
Only moaning but not playing does not solve anything.
 
And turning it into a speed system?
You can already reach level 50 in 2-4 days depending on how you play, and you want to make it even faster, giving people more opportunity to complain "there's nothing to do"?
No thanks.
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{| class="blockquote"
2 speed system meaning: F2P unless you want to join raids or go on your house plot, then it becomes P2P.
won't affect speed of levelling at all.
 
and yeah, a crafting, farming, cooking? reputation FARM game ?i get it, it is an mmo. repetition is and will be there. but at least don't make farming boring: gather ressource in lowbie zones ? yuk. grind dailies ? i won't get there.
 
for pvp, i mean, the issue is not as much the system/rating as the "fun" itself. wildstar's bgs and combat system is simply not suited to pvp. in gw2, dueling another player is something, in wildstar it isn't. overall the combat in pvp just doesn't feel right so don't expect it to be more popular all of a sudden; i guarantee you that!
 
you will only save wildstar with raiding and housing so focus on that to make money and make everything else F2P.
questing past max level is uterly boring or non existing, pvp is a bit boring due to combat mechanics, crafting well... a few people might like it but hopefully thats not the selling point of your mmo!.
 
see ya later.
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{| class="blockquote"
2 speed system meaning: F2P unless you want to join raids or go on your house plot, then it becomes P2P.
won't affect speed of levelling at all.
 
and yeah, a crafting, farming, cooking? reputation FARM game ?i get it, it is an mmo. repetition is and will be there. but at least don't make farming boring: gather ressource in lowbie zones ? yuk. grind dailies ? i won't get there.
 
for pvp, i mean, the issue is not as much the system/rating as the "fun" itself. wildstar's bgs and combat system is simply not suited to pvp. in gw2, dueling another player is something, in wildstar it isn't. overall the combat in pvp just doesn't feel right so don't expect it to be more popular all of a sudden; i guarantee you that!
 
you will only save wildstar with raiding and housing so focus on that to make money and make everything else F2P.
questing past max level is uterly boring or non existing, pvp is a bit boring due to combat mechanics, crafting well... a few people might like it but hopefully thats not the selling point of your mmo!.
 
see ya later.
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Just a drawing of some happy people enjoying the F2P experience to brighten your Monday morning.	
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{| class="blockquote"
it is still an uber boring game at max level unless you are into raiding. i mean.. you're gonna do daily zones?... and they are boring (even the new one.. omg those daily quest... ugh). sure sure you can grind the daily zones and keep pushing. but i seriously think a lot of players simply quit when they realise that it is all they ever do (if they are not into raiding) so they quit anyway.
 
pvp ? (no comment).
...
so yeah, just give the game for free and charge a sub for raiding and housing.
almost no players that are not raiders or house builders are left anyway.
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't like F2P but imho B2P would be good for WS. A model like GW2.
 
Many ppl already own WS and i think its time Carbine let them play the game without a sub. Both guilds and communities will take a big breath from the potential influx of new and returning players.
 
I m not saying B2P is the solution for a bad game, but i think WS is not one. On the contrary, WS is a game with great potentials that needs to stay alive until it fulfills them. In its current state it cant stay healthy for long. So considering the options, i think B2P is the best solution at the moment and its a solution that keeps F2P crowd away.
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I don't like F2P but imho B2P would be good for WS. A model like GW2.
 
Many ppl already own WS and i think its time Carbine let them play the game without a sub. Both guilds and communities will take a big breath from the potential influx of new and returning players.
 
I m not saying B2P is the solution for a bad game, but i think WS is not one. On the contrary, WS is a game with great potentials that needs to stay alive until it fulfills them. In its current state it cant stay healthy for long. So considering the options, i think B2P is the best solution at the moment and its a solution that keeps F2P crowd away.	
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F2P is gash.  Paying should never give any advantage to anybody in a game.
 
If you wanna pee it up the wall then do it on housing and looking pretty!!
 
What ever happened to buying a game and playing it?  Well MMOs happened so now we have buy the game and pay monthly...but everyone does this.  It doesn't give you any advantage like getting extra XP buffs and rep buffs.
 
I hate games that offer advantages to paying.  I'm fine with people buying pretty things and wanting cool unique stuff but I wanna kill stuff and don't want someone to be able to suffocate me in pound notes!!!! :P	
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't like F2P but imho B2P would be good for WS. A model like GW2.
 
Many ppl already own WS and i think its time Carbine let them play the game without a sub. Both guilds and communities will take a big breath from the potential influx of new and returning players.
 
I m not saying B2P is the solution for a bad game, but i think WS is not one. On the contrary, WS is a game with great potentials that needs to stay alive until it fulfills them. In its current state it cant stay healthy for long. So considering the options, i think B2P is the best solution at the moment and its a solution that keeps F2P crowd away.
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