148615-so-dominion-and-exiles-page-8

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Another way to look at it is by thinking of Brightland's Rebellion as being, or as threatening to become, more like the French revolution than the American one.
 
It's easy to think of the modern Exiles, with their Southern accents and cowboy imagery, as the Americans to the Dominion's Imperial Britain, but the rebellion itself is rather different.
 
The American colonies were already separate from their parent nation both geographically and (to a lesser extent) culturally, and Britain mostly left them to govern themselves for reasons of practicality and related reasons of fairness - it was impractical for the colonists to send representatives to Parliament, and therefor unfair for the British government to boss them around any more than what seemed absolutely necessary. When the British pushed too far, the already-separate colonies severed ties and pushed British forces out of the land that was already theirs (ignoring for the moment that they'd stolen and/or swindled it from the Native Americans), and then mostly minded their own business until poked again. Britain lost its colonies, but its society was intact and they were still an Empire.
 
The Cassian Civil War, in contrast, was fought within a very much not-separate interstellar state, and the rebels were attempting to tear down the existing social order of the whole thing and not just some distant part of it. They damaged what would have been their own infrastructure if they'd won, and killed a lot of people who didn't really have the option of moving back home, on account of already being home. Similarly, the French Revolution was fought within France itself, with the goal of tearing down the entire social order, and was rather damaging to France, from what I remember of high-school-level history.
 
Were the French revolutionaries justified in wanting change? Absolutely. Did it end well? ... Eventually. Before it got better, though, it got horrifying - mass execution of the old aristocracy, violence, and paranoid purges. There was also short Emperor's reign there for a while, then more monarchy, then a bit of democracy, then another Emperor, then another try at democracy, then invasion by Nazis...
 
Were the proto-Exiles justified in wanting change (or at least a reversion of recent changes)? Possibly. The lore as written is a bit ambiguous regarding the exact positions of the High-born and Low-born on the more-snobbery-to-horrific-oppression and rowdy-protest-to-savage-rioting scales, respectively. Would it have ended well if the rebellion had succeeded? It might not have - I don't recall how bad the civilian casualties and infrastructure damage was stated to be, but I remember that the damage to the Dominion military was implied to be serious, and that could have opened the Dominion up to external threats like increased Marauder piracy or Ikthian invasion/abduction fleets. More worryingly, even modern revolutionaries run the risk of becoming dictators or juntas as bad or worse than the governments they replace, and it had been over thirteen centuries since the Cassian people last used a democratic system. Totalitarian rule and military hierarchy were the only forms of rule any of them had any living memory of, and if the Dominion had any democratic neighbors to look to for examples, they aren't mentioned in the lore.
 
Of course, Brightland's revolutionaries didn't win their war, so we'll never know if they would have won their peace afterward. And I'm not going to get involved in the debate about current Exile/Dominion levels of evil or legitimacy relative to each other, except to say that it's a great illustration of the old saying about one person's terrorists being another person's freedom fighters.	
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			French almost ruled Europe with the change, but we will never know as Exiles lost.	
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Exiles are traitors to the Dominion. They are not the heirs to Nexus, the Dominion is. The Exiles gave up their claim to Dominion heritage when they launched a massive terrorist attack on their innocent fellows and tried to destroy the Dominion.
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Another way to look at it is by thinking of Brightland's Rebellion as being, or as threatening to become, more like the French revolution than the American one.
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Incorect.
 
Dominion is society status. Human is the race. Race has been chosen, not the name.
 
Also, judging by your avatar, you probably play chua, so your arguments are invalid by default.
 
Chua are vermin with no rights to exist, not to mention to even speak for themselves.
 
Also I eat chua for breakfast. And stomp them whenever I see them.
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This is a really great explanation Medic! But would you argue that a group (e.g. Brightland and his lieutenants) launching a surprise attack on their fellow citizens (e.g.  Dominion populace) to enact social / political change (e.g. reverse the Vigilant Decree) through threat of violence would not count as ANY form of terrorism? I would posit that at the time, it would certainly have been considered domestic terrorism in the legal eye of the Dominion. (since others here have confused it, suggesting the Exiles are terrorists in the Dominion's legal perspective doesn't preclude the Dominion from being terrorists in the Exiles legal perspective).
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Well, its an interesting thought for sure, however, an act of insurrection by military leaders such as Brightland, I believe falls more into an act of armed insurrection or a coup d'etat, which succinctly puts it into the realm of acts of war rather than terrorism, since the opposing force is military and the goal is not social/political change, but rather regime change. 
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What's the difference between a "regime change" and "political change"? To me those are virtually the same thing, with a regime change (rye) being a form of political change(bread) [much like "rye" is a type of "bread", though not the only kind].
 
IIRC Brightland was court marshalled for disobeying orders and discharged from the Millitary and was to be executed. He stole the Star of Dominus after escaping custody. I also recall that non-combatants also died in his multiple surprise attacks. I really REALLY like the way you've framed this though!!! I think (personal opinion of mine, perhaps) that an ex-admiral stealing a fleet and leading devastating attacks on the Dominion under the authority of no other soverignty would certainly be domestic terrorism rather than an act of war (as I would argue all internal Coup attempts that involve violence are...). This was also the thinking of Abraham Lincoln during the American Civil War; never was the southern insurgency referred to as a War (by Lincoln or the Union) it was always framed and treated as a rebellion / terrorism / coup and explicitly NOT a "war" which would have legitimized their claims to sovereignty. That said, we now do call it the "Civil War" so it's obvious that opinions on this kind of thing do vary. But if that's something we disagree on, so be it, if we all agreed on everything the world would be terribly boring.
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Yes, its very similar to how the IRA is framed based on whether you support the cause of Irish independence and reunification. Of course the UK views the IRA as terrorists whereas local Irish tend to view them as freedom fighters. (Prior to the treaty of course, now the IRA is almost entirely a terrorist organization.)
 
Good example! Though I will point out that the former IRA proper is now essentially a political party in Ireland, the offshoots that are still violent (E.G. the RIRA) are deffinatly as you say.
 
However, I would still frame a military coup as different from domestic terrorism, mostly because of their separable military nature. Brightland also left and escaped then waged more of a guerrila war against the dominion. I guess where I see the main difference is in the tactics. Where I view the methods of waging a military campaign to be the hampering of supply lines, patrols, and expansion of power, even if some attacks involve collateral civilian damages, the targets are still primarily military or government in nature and have military goals (stealing the fleet having the military goal of securing supplies to continue the fight). Terrorism on the other hand tends to have aims based on creating mass fear in the civilian populace that leads the government to enact political/social change not because the government was ousted by the terrorists, but by the afraid people. 
 
To me its question of means and aims. One is military and has military aims and targets, regardless of whether civilians may be injured or killed (collateral damage). Terrorism is primarily civilian / civilian government target and is meant to coerce the existing government/populace via creation of fear. 
 
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I absolutely see your logic, and it certainly has merit. But at the same time, we consider many groups that would fit your definition of having "military aims" as terrorists, even actual sovereign nations. North Korea comes to mind, as do groups like ISIS, and many African terrorist groups. These focus generally on military targets but also kill civilians in the process occasionally to intentionally invoke fear (which the Exiles certainly do, as we see in Hycrest with the Alchemists bioterror campaign). If the Exiles weren't terrorists by your definition at the onset, they certainly have become so now, even if now it's more along the lines of "state sanctioned" versus "domestic".
 
This is definitely a tricky question, but I guess that makes it all the more interesting!
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You definitely have a logical basis for your assessment. I certainly would still consider at least some of the Exile actions against the Dominion (esp. Pre "exiles") to be "terrorism". But if we go with your assessment, my only addition would be that by such standards, the Dominion too would be guilty of war crimes, but not terrorism.
 
Anyway, your reasoning is clear and the basis for it is sound. In the end how we view political entities is largely due to personal factors, but yours was as clear an analysis as any!
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End of my analysis: Are the exiles guilty of terrorism - no, are the exiles guilty of war crimes - absolutely. 
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Yes, destroying the basis of a civilization is akin to destroying that civilization.
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No matter how much you want something to be true and convince yourself that it is, that doesn't make it true. That's not how factuality works.
 
The Goal of "Brightland's Rebellion" was to destroy the Dominion Empire. You can pretend that means anything besides what it does all you like, it doesn't make you correct.
 
from the lore:
 
"After commandeering the Star of Dominus from dry-dock, Brightland led a daring attack on the Dominion High Command itself, taking out myriad warships before withdrawhttp://www.wildstar-online.com/uk/news/wildstar-wednesday-brightlands-rebellion/ing.
More victories followed. Forming a government-in-exile, Brightland set his sights on the prize that would bring the Dominion to heel: the capitol."
 
 
"After this first devastating hit-and-run strike, the rebels scored a few more surprising victories, and a confident Brightland formed a government-in-exile of civilian and military leaders with an eye toward taking control of their homeworld."
 
Brightland and his co-conspirators goal was to destroy the Dominion (the political entity, the Dominion Empire) and ostensibly replace it with some government of their own design (as pointed out elsewhere, likely still an authoritarian system). Destruction of the Dominion = /= destruction of Cassus as you seem to imply
 
Not that I'm invested in this discussion, at this point I'm just enjoying watching your mental gymnastics as you bend and stretch that logic as far as you can. :P
 
You're not the only one to mistake an objective perspective on the actions of the Exiles and Dominion with "mental gymnastics". If I may be so bold as to point out that you're relying on your personal cultural bias and leaning on heuristic stereotyping to understand these factions rather than an objective understanding of context and results... I suggest looking at the way Medic approached some of these questions to see a good example of the latter, rather than the former.
 
Also, I'm surprised this needs to be said.... but just because an event is described using "X" words, doesn't mean it can't also be correctly described using "Y" terms... A rebellion can ALSO be an act of destruction... an Orange can ALSO be a fruit.... A Cat can also be a Feline, can also be a Mammal, can also be an Animal...... etc, etc, etc, ad nauseam.....
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Page 10 and was catching up, then life...
 
Buzzsaw I almost wonder if the disconnect is because of Nexus itself, the story of it I mean.  Maybe the developers made the Exile and Dominion faction, made the races, gave them a history and suddenly...Nexus.  But come to think of it, the Veggies were on the main Exile ship?  I can't remember if one of the Aurin's said they were mutated or became sapient on the trip.  Yes, the aesthetics drew me in and never let go.  The first thing I did when I saw a mountian was find some way to climb as high as I could.  I'm 100% on board with the cartoonish style and think it fits for the initial lore and story.  Now I will say this, Carbine took a road less traveled.  If you ever watch an old movie Mirical Mile, the first 30 minutes is a romantic story then quickly becomes a race to survive a nuclear war. Two emotional states that are difficult to grasp, depending on what one's mental threshhold is.  I can see the humor that was a drawing in point then all the sudden, past level 15 it gets dark, fast.  To all that aspect, I kina think that perhaps, indeed, the writers never compaired notes, or just didn't seek to connect the dots.  Yea, the "*cupcake* on the Exiles until they float," story is getting the feels generated but I think that is deliberate.   It's the oldest movie plot pull where you get the "bad" guys to do bad things and thus make the audence hate the "bad" guys.  + 10 that you watch RedLetterMedia too.  When you were making that Ghostbusters comment I was saying to myself, wait a sec, thats from Redletter Media!  On your point about cartoons, being a child of the 80's there was a lot of adult themes in many cartoons.  
 
Having played a bit more I kina get this from the Dominion and Exiles.
 
Dominion are impervious to the plight they set on those who defy them.  Even if a section of their ranks suffer, the whole simply shrugs it off and continues on for the Dominion.  They have the resources and technology to stay anything major and see any nexus tragity as yet another reason to stay.
 
Exiles take each blow and now have both cheeks bruised.  They feel like the happy family in the middle of a war zone trying to play among the rocks and fallen bodies and hidden mine fields.  It's a terrifying thought, but they keep being delt the losing hand.
 
Having peeked at the end, not understanding the implications or context of the endgame, really want me to play the game and figure out, Why?
 
I wonder if the humor wasnt an after thought, later in the game, to keep a smile on the player's faces as horrible things happen.  Then again, perhaps I enjoy the Dominion more because, as a whole, there is a lot less emotional baggage to deal with.  Then again, I liked watership down and Rock and Rule.
 
Yasfan I do get a thrill and a smile every time those dam banana tossing monkey things explodes.  I wonder if they did this to make it, as i think you were alluding to , more comical in their death and less horrific?  Am I bad for thinking every mission the Chua's send me on is comical?  And I just got to the one mission in the snow fields where the Chua chard the huddling Aurin in the frozen drain.  Kina grim.  I think in one on one combat, one would hardly see an Aurin as a threat, but they cannot deny that Dominion troops die at the hands paws claws of Aurin's all the same.  I get the feel The Dominion, like any major power, downplays the Aurin's in every way they can including seeing them as forest creatures that talk.  The Dominion surely didn't like it when the Aurin activated an elden Teraformer.  Im also not aware that the exiles tired to open up negotiations?  I thought the Dominion and Exiles pretty much were done trying?
 
Spider Bro Jenkins, you know I always presumed I would have grasped the Humans and Cassians from the get go so help me out here.  I just went to the Loremageddon and just had something on the line of an epiphany. "The Exile humans hate the Cassian humans of the Dominion. Both sides agree reconciliation is impossible."  You know, now follow along with me because I hope it's not apophenia.  The humans and Cassians are long past setting asside their differences.  But isn't it interesting that the humans are referred to as "The heart and soul," of the Exiles.  The Mechari saw the potential in humans (be it 2000 prior to nexus) as great as the Eldan.  The Eldan may have seen the humans as an unchecked threat and choose, not to destroy them, but to integrate and thus control them or even use them as a backup plan. It wasn't until the Vigilant Church was made, did it hit the fan for the Cassians. This means, regardless of the initial lowborn status of most of the Humans who became the Exiles, some influence still remains to the exile humans.    It also seems to this day, the Mechari of the Foundry guide the actions of the Cassian humans as well. 
 
As far as the humor, war times always promote the best one liners for your adversary.
 
I kina get the sense that humans are being used by the Elden even to the events of Nexus.   But that's just my wild theory. 
 
Kintallo, seeing how draken have blood rituals and put skulls everywhere for many many reasons and celebrations, I don't it past them to eat the heart of an Aurin or two.  On the other -paw- if Aurin only see Draken "No different than a rabid predator that needs to be put down." then there is no reason for them to believe otherwise.
 
 
Ildur I cannot resist, I'm sorry.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXAfdGdSyfg
I also hope none of those 'moral re-balancing' patches come to play...leave the Ekose alone!
 
PlasmaJohn!  Welcome sir.  Yea there was a Youtube video on what makes a good mmo and what the brunt of people go to them for.  I almost wonder if its that, one size fits all, that leaves some points lacking.  I do frown on the role play aspect though.  I loved playing the bard or thief in a dice D&D, yet what is considered RP ...at least what I've seen here, is um...not my type?  I also will add that the darker things get, the harder it is to laugh at a Chua's laugh or make light when characters die due to blind ignorance or desperate measures.
 
SweetSlinger, gota keep away from that silly earth planet history.  It's difficult enough to focus on the crazy on Nexus while trying to compare it to the crazy on Earth.  Also, I could talk about -that- point for hours.  But I will point out, I think again, that the lack of moral choices (do the mission A way or B way) in game pretty much means your character is on a roller-coaster all they can do is add flavor to by screaming or cheering.  I do wish I could discover a Roleplay aspect to Wildstar, but as I leaned to its kina..one sided.
 
I just hope that what ever past grudges have been flying around here don't halt this.  I'm still alive, balancing work with Wildstar.  I really and honestly appreciate all of your input folks.
 
Ok, Ive had some time to think over my "exiles are hypocrites" statement and let me adjust it.  The Exiles, for all intended purposes are promoted as the "good" guys.  That is if the combined drive of Malcolm Reynolds, the humility of Ash Williams, and the sour story of most antiheroes, is "good".  They are placed in a bad situation, dolling about as best any drifting exile could. They have the moral high ground but are placed into desperate situations where they no longer have the luxury of being as diplomatic as they claim, or as slow going as they want, or even as peaceful as they could.  For me, it doesn't excuse their cutting moral corners for a better tomorrow.  Yea, that puts the Exiles into a immovable object vs irresistible force situation, so it seems.  If it were me, I'd give the Exiles a fantastic planet somewhere else, ship them off Nexus and let them do what ever and take Nexus for the Dominion...however.    The Dominion will not share Nexus and the Exiles have absolutely no where else to go at this point.  It's a perfect setup for and endgame conflict that's do or die. Do I sympathize with the Exiles, yes, do I agree with their methods, no. 
 
I'm still pro Dominion,  If Nexus was just a normal livable planet, I still think the Dominion wouldn't allow it and would have been wiped out.  The secrets of Nexus are actually splitting the attention fron the Exiles and saving their lives.  There is still hope that the story or development of the story fills in a lot of gap.
 
I'm only done with page 11, sorry folks.	
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I'm still pro Dominion,  If Nexus was just a normal livable planet, I still think the Dominion wouldn't allow it and would have been wiped out.  The secrets of Nexus are actually splitting the attention fron the Exiles and saving their lives.  There is still hope that the story or development of the story fills in a lot of gap.
 
 
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The Eldan may have seen the humans as an unchecked threat and choose, not to destroy them, but to integrate and thus control them or even use them as a backup plan. It wasn't until the Vigilant Church was made, did it hit the fan for the Cassians. This means, regardless of the initial lowborn status of most of the Humans who became the Exiles, some influence still remains to the exile humans.    It also seems to this day, the Mechari of the Foundry guide the actions of the Cassian humans as well. 
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"This is a misunderstanding of how the Dominion generally operates. They're not the Star Wars evil empire, blowing up planets to keep the local systems in line. They're trying to bring peace to a chaotic galaxy through law and order, and they believe their actual, literal gods (the Eldan) gave them a mission to do so. True, they do have protocols in place to carry out orbital bombardment in an extreme emergency or quarantine situation - such as keeping the Mordesh Contagion contained on Grismara - but as a war strategy it simply wouldn't happen unless the Dominion itself was threatened with collapse". -CRB HernCO
 
 
Also, to earlier questions about terrorism:
 
 
"What the Dominion sees as terrorism, essentially - sneak attacks, targeting non-military structures, even dismantling Mechari. And at the start of the war, the Cassian rebels (not yet Exiles) plowed a furrow of mega-death through the Cassian navy's fleet, killing thousands and almost causing them to lose control of the empire from lack of ships.
What Exiles might see as mean, many in the Dominion see as forceful and necessary, albeit sometimes regrettable.
Of course, there's also plenty of hate and bile on both sides. They're not nice to each other in general."- CRB HernCO
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What purpose does an empire serve them when they can re-write reality itself with Drusera? If the GP project was to correct the mistakes in the inherent flaws of the universe then what else did the Eldan want?
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I think the Eldan could have easily wiped out the Cassians if they wanted to, but decided to repurpose them instead. That being said, I do get the "humans (both factions) are super special awesome" vibe from the game and that kinda annoys me. 
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Loremageddon-
"At first, the humans of Cassus welcomed the arrival of Dominus and his Mechari entourage, entering into an unprecedented age of prosperity under his leadership, and that of his Luminai descendants. Through the Luminai and the Mechari, the Eldan guided political and military policies, forging the Dominion into a conquering empire that flourished for more than 700 years. It was then that the Eldan mysteriously vanished—leaving behind a final, cryptic message claiming they would soon seize the power of the gods."
 
Story of Nexus -
"But after the massacre in Toria Square, Serrick Brightland had had enough. When he refused to open fire on revolting civilians, they'd found someone who would. And he, the most highly decorated officer in Cassian military history, was incarcerated to await execution for treason. Like his flagship the Star of Dominus, Brightland had been facing retirement. Instead, while shackled he broke all five necks of his escorts to the firing squad, escaped single-handed while in transit to his execution, and called a secret conclave of commanders whose loyalty he trusted. There'd been many more than he'd dared to hope. After commandeering the Star of Dominus from dry-dock, Brightland led a daring attack on the Dominion High Command itself, taking out myriad warships before withdrawing. More victories followed. Forming a government-in-exile, Brightland set his sights on the prize that would bring the Dominion to heel: the capitol But before he could mount his attack, Aurelius, a protégé he had trusted, found his loyalty to the Dominion outweighed decades of friendship.."
 
From older sources to elaborate more. If Carbine could stick to one project or follow up their promise in keeping the lore in one place it would be helpful.
 
 
@Spider bro The Eldan chose the humans for a reason, and considering the massive gap in space between Dominion and Nexus I still cannot understand why they would initiate such a task even with the loremageddon explanation. What purpose does an empire serve them when they can re-write reality itself with Drusera? If the GP project was to correct the mistakes in the inherent flaws of the universe then what else did the Eldan want?
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True, but I do like that Humans with Eldan genetics are much more special than just humans. At least it adds some flavor... 
 
"SPECIES DESIGNATION: 
HUMAN
Species shows wide variety of genetic diversity within traditional carbon-based structure. No design evident in genetic profile. Evidence of relic genes bearing markers designated ELDAN in 34% of local population. 
INTELLIGENCE: 17% Ikthian Norm 
PHYSIOLOGY: 21% Ikthian Norm
AGGRESSION: 85% Ikthian Norm
RECOMMENDATION: Additional specimens with markers designated ELDAN requested. Elimination of other specimens authorized."
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But seriously, I want to learn more about the Megadroids and Ikthians. I find them very interesting.
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I am so ready for more world lore... I would love to get some in depth Ikthian quests, same with the Megadroids for sure! 
 
I also wanna see the conclusion of Caledor's Ascendency arc, and how much Zin will change with the Elder cube in her head now...
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I assumed the Dominion was established as a contingency plan in case the GP didn't work out so well, which was exactly what happened. Were it not for the Dominion and Exiles is it not possible that the Strain would have spread off the planet and endangered ALL LIFE IN EXISTENCE? I have not read up on that part of the lore much so I could be wrong on some things there.
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Now since the dominion isn't a person, this leaves definition 1.
 
 
 
None which imply ending somethings existance, and one that contradicts it.
 
No matter how much you want something to be true and convince yourself that it is, that doesn't make it true. That's not how factuality works.
 
Not that I'm invested in this discussion, at this point I'm just enjoying watching your mental gymnastics as you bend and stretch that logic as far as you can. :P
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Im at page 15 and Im tired and couldn't log into here from work so Im behind.
 
Kintallo and yasfan  You know I really didn't want to get into a "I'm justifying my posts because I like the numbers and the chaos." But if you're going to go there.  You're berating a guy who has been latching on to story and content from the days of Zork and had to buy guide books just to make it through those harder levels.  Not blowing my own horn but I'm honestly trying to convey that what you guys say has weight.  If Im dead wrong on a point, then I guess I'm still human but it helps me enjoy the game all the more when I'm corrected, not berated but it will happen. This thread is helping me understand the core of Wildstar, both in the game Lore, the Game development, the Community, as well as the plain and simple enjoyment of the game.  If you want to come at me like some over the top SCA person, be my guest, but I know all too well the level of nonsense that can erupt because it's the Internet, you can't see me, I can't see you and we use fake names.  I've clearly stated my goal and thoughts very plainly.  I am not skipping over lines and reading the last sentences of peoples posts and if you've taken into consideration that I respond up to where Ive read up on this thread.  If this is getting too personal or too emotional for you, I'm sorry but that happens in communication.  I'm not here to berate you, so stop reading into my purpose here. I am finding out the disjointed union between game play, carbine, and the fractured Lore and the growing frustration of the community takes it's toll.  Perhaps on a side mission I want to get to know you guys and what you're like?  Sorry I guess?  Let me get back to reading.
 
Spider Bro Jenkins, Thank you for your helpful info and insight.  See about that Terraformer the Aurins turned on.  When the Dominion found out, they almost felt they were honestly doing the right thing by stopping the Aurins.  Something about primitives just altering the landscape to their benefit.  Seemed very desperate for the Aurins and if I do dare say hypocritical, for them to berate other races for industrializing and altering the landscape.  They do it when the humans want to build a factory or when proto star made it snow, potentially harming the local fauna.   Yes yes, one could say they were changing one arid environment for a lush gree landscape, but there again goes that micro vs macro domination.  I never got into the Consort story.  I took it as plain as it would go in my mind and let if go there.
 
Bytek , wasn't there some reference where the Elden saw the need for the Cassian/Humans to worship something and saw what the Luminai had done was bring that desire to the next level?  And that eventually the Elden would "provide another god for them soon."  I remember that sticking out somewhere.  That continues to leave me with the thought that the Elden had planned to give the Dominion every physical gift while being themselves gods.  Were the Osun those big guys who tossed dominion tanks at me?
 
Peacekitty You totally quoted the Datacrons I was talking about.  And now that its right there, it just screams that the Elden wanted to become creatures to be worshiped and have others serve them.  Perhaps in a more Mount Olympus style rule?  Well something back fired, and I haven't figured it out yet.  My guess is, someone already beat the Elden to the punch and the Elden got a surprise.
 
Nazryn, I wonder if the animosity  perceived is not what is so much shouted by the strugle of the game lore?  From our point of view, its always easier to think evil of the powerful and well to do who "look down" on others rather than the survivors trying to make ends meet.  I never knew the Lorborn also have a representitive on the high council, that gives them a say in what goes on in the Dominion.  I don't think the Exiles as a whole have that kina unity.  Do the Exiles have a representitive group?  I'm almost wondering if the Aurin dont hate their leaders because of the aggressiveness building over their continual loss?  Maybe thats part of the hypocracy I saw from my original post.  Not so much a hypocracy but a building desire to toss asside the peaceful ways, pick up a plasma rifle and go nuts.	
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In general the Exile/Dominion feud isn't really clear-cut. If you quested on both sides you'd be aware it is more ambiguous. A lot of Dommie quests less involve trying to drive out the Exiles (though there are some based on zone stories) and more on figuring out what happened to the Eldan. And the Exiles are attempting to setup as a new home since they have spent literally centuries space-born on ships which probably should have failed decades ago. And yes that does include driving off Dommie forces as well as trying to use Eldan tech to help (and sometimes pressing a wrong button and releasing experiments). But all the while there are criminal cartels and raiders who have come to Nexus for easy looting and pillaging, especially now the Exiles ships have failed and the planet is kind of their "last stand". And on top of ALL of that are the various Eldan experiments which culminated into their grand project.
 
Story-side there are rivalries between the races anyway.
 
- Human : Humans wanted more freedom from the Dominion and many are considered "lesser born" among the Cassians. They'll always feud.
- Nature/Industry : Aurin don't like the Dommies because their forest homeworld was ultimate harvested for resources. Especially since efficient Chua deforestation tech.
- Rocks/Hard Places : Ganok were in a similar boat. They resisted the Dominion and they were subsequently exiled from their homeworld like the Aurin but less for natural resources and more on "principle"
- Saviors/Decimators : While the Mordesh were slated to join the Dominion the backfiring of their elixir creating the Contagion prompted the Dominion to not only quarantine their homeworld but also attempted genocide. Basically trying to kill all the Mordesh to burn out the Contagion.	
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- Saviors/Decimators : While the Mordesh were slated to join the Dominion the backfiring of their elixir creating the Contagion prompted the Dominion to not only quarantine their homeworld but also attempted genocide. Basically trying to kill all the Mordesh to burn out the Contagion.
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Bytek , wasn't there some reference where the Elden saw the need for the Cassian/Humans to worship something and saw what the Luminai had done was bring that desire to the next level?  And that eventually the Elden would "provide another god for them soon."  I remember that sticking out somewhere.  That continues to leave me with the thought that the Elden had planned to give the Dominion every physical gift while being themselves gods.  Were the Osun those big guys who tossed dominion tanks at me?
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