Report 505

Report #505
Skillset: Tracking Skill: Pit
 Org: Paladins Status: Completed Nov 2010
Furies' Decision:
All climbing out of pits will bypass shroud and be displayed.
Problem: Since you cannot see when a shrouded individual climbs out of a pit, it
is very annoying for the Tracker trying to reconceal their traps. The most
feasible method at the moment is to spam CONCEAL when they see someone fall in.
Of course, this method is not very reliable given things like Aeon. And spam is
never good anyway.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Allow pits to be reconcealed at anytime again.
 However, make it so that two people cannot fall into
 the same pit. Basically, there would be zero changes
 to how pits functions mechanically for the targets.
 This solution would only impact the Tracker by making
 things more convenient.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Create a new ability (Scouting?) in Tracking that is
 akin to how faeriefire works. (A Tracker's attunement
 to the environment or scent/track of their foe allows
 them to detect all movement, etc.)
Player Comments:
---[Lehki on 11/20 @ 18:56 writes]:
No to solution 1. Making an ability easier to set up is a decent buff to it,
and not just a convenience. Why not just make climbing out of pits not
cloakable?
---[Inagin on 11/22 @ 16:15 writes]:
How is it a decent buff and not a convenience? Balance time is identical, effect
on enemies is identical. Please elaborate.
---[Lehki on 11/23 @ 03:00 writes]:
Not 'JUST' a convenience. Making the skill more convenient to use is buffing it
is my point. Instead of requiring you to be ready to re-conceal at the moment
the target climbs out and before they could possibly move, you have a larger
period where you can re-conceal the pit, possible the moment they fall in, and
then go back to attacking the target or anything else with little concern for
exactly when they climb out. If the problem is just that it's currently
impossible to tell the moment when a cloaked target climbs out, making climbing
out not cloakable seems like a more straight forward solution that won't have
any other effect on the skill.
---[Fillin on 11/23 @ 05:14 writes]:
Solution 1 is indeed more than convenience. It allows you to conceal and then
focus 100% on hindering/offense instead of having to choose between waiting on
balance to reconceal or hindering/offense (like bards have to do with pfifth).
I'm not really sure why pits need any sort of buff.
---[Nydekion on 11/23 @ 08:46 writes]:
I can support having climbing out be actions that are not cloakable just like it
is usually pretty obvious when a target eats earwort to escape pfifth. Right now
there is a discrepancy between regular climbing out and the climb rocks ability
where one is cloaked and the other uncloaked, respectively. It would make sense
to normalize the two and just have all actions involving climbing out of and
exiting a pit successfully be abilities not masked by shroud.
---[Inagin on 11/23 @ 16:33 writes]:
Yes, Lehki. That's why Solution #2 is so trackers can see whenever someone
climbs out of the pit. I still don't understand your point though. As to Fillin,
explain to me what's the difference between attack, attack, conceal versus
conceal, attack, attack versus attack, conceal, attack? The balance required is
exactly the same. You cannot really compare this to bards
---[Inagin on 11/23 @ 16:35 writes]:
Eep, got cut off. -- You cannot really compare this to bards; bards get a
notification on when to PerfectFifth again - when their targets eat earwort. I
would be perfectly happy with Solution #2, but to say that Solution #1 is a
"decent buff" is stretching it.
---[Lehki on 11/23 @ 21:47 writes]:
Because if you want to be ready to conceal, you can't be attacking constantly,
you need to be ready and have an idea of when they'll be climbing out so you can
stop attacking and stay on balance for it. With solution 1 you can just
immediately set the pit and then go all out until after they've fallen into the
pit again. Attack attack conceal takes timing and experience, Conceal attack
attack requires no skill at all to pull off.
---[Nydekion on 11/23 @ 23:25 writes]:
That's not really that valid of a point. Climb rocks, at least, is on a
predictable timer. Just a matter of having a client-side alert to tell when a
person is just about ready to get out of the pit. If we're talking about regular
climb, then you can account for hindering. Either way, solution 1 is easier,
yes, but not the game-changing modification that you're trying to lead folks to
believe.
---[Lehki on 11/24 @ 04:18 writes]:
I don't know about you, but that sounds exactly like what I was saying. You can
time those things because you know what you're doing and have experience with
how people can get out of the pit. With solution 1 anybody could easily re-
conceal and start attacking again with no guess work or timing involved, and I
doubt your timing for regular climb is always perfect and it simply wouldn't
need to be with that. And I'm not saying it will be game-changing, but it would
not just be a convenience of use like the report makes it out to be. If the
problem is climbing out under cloak making people take a complete guess or spam
the command, just make it uncloakable, they'd still have to know when to stay on
EQ for it with that change.
---[Ixion on 11/28 @ 06:10 writes]:
This is not needed. You can easily LOOK and see if they climbed, and warriors
have a skill to be able to see this already, which syngergies nicely with pits.
Instant re-conceal takes all the skill out of laying pits and concealing, timing
on attacks and when to conceal. Allowing this to revert to a "fire-and-forget"
skill is simply not warranted. Plus it makes absolutely no sense (i.e. "Hey you,
in the pit, don't mind me reconcealing it while you're stuck on a spike. Ignore
me so when you climb out you'll hit it again, ok?! Great.")
---[Inagin on 11/29 @ 01:35 writes]:
What ability do warriors have that allows them to see when someone climbs out of
a pit? I would really like to know. From my knowledge, there is none. That is
why this report was created. Solution #2 is asking for the creation of such an
ability.
---[Xenthos on 11/30 @ 23:13 writes]:
I would prefer to see the ability to see someone climbing out of a pit whether
cloaked or not, instead of being able to re-conceal while someone is in it
(concealing a pit while someone is thrashing about inside it is also awkward!).
Conceal and then attack-at-will knowing the pit's all set is definitely a bit of
an upgrade (I'm not sure it's -quite- as much as is being stated, but it's
definitely an upgrade). Knowing that someone has gotten out is good though, and
other classes are able to obviate such with use of skills such as Faeriefire.