108916-respec-cost-is-ridiculous

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It REALLY needs to be lowered by like 90% or removed entirely. The fact that this is in the game at all is just stupid. I still haven't tried many different combinations because it simply costs too much. And then when you change stuff we have to test and pay to respec all over again? What a freaking mess.
 
50 gold is like 1/10th-1/20th of a cred which is just insane.	
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			50g is one zone of dailies.....	
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			50G is nothing.  Play the game, you earn that in like 20-30 mins once you're eldar gem capped.	
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I agree, money sinks tied to character building and learning your class is poor taste.  It doesn't matter how fast you can earn X amount, spread that gold sink somewhere else like mount costs or anything else cosmetic.
 
Odd seeing such gold sinks in a sub model mmo, til you remember the CREDD bs.  When b2p or f2p hand out free respec costs...hell even changing your armor color comes free in some. Competition in this genre is everything...not hardcore fluff.
 
Im sure Carbine has things in the works (only charged per amp changed or something), they seem all about making this game more accessible and agreeable to the mainstream "casual" w/o actually nerf'n content, it's a smart choice.	
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The price is way too high for a fresh 50, let alone while leveling. Yes money is easy to acquire but there are 100 other things that need to be purchased as well, keeping you back in the filed, grind more quests. Which gets really old fast.
 
Experimenting, learning your amps and builds shouldn't be gated, at all. Not even a little. There are plenty of other mechanics that hinder progression in this game. removing one won't hurt anything.
 
Christ, it would make the MAJORITY of the players happy. Do something along those lines. it's been awhile.	
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One zone of dailies is more like 38 gold. Depending on if you do it with a group or not, and how much gear you have, and your class, it can take up to one hour and a bit.
 
So remember: every time you want to experiment with one new build, you have to waste one hour of your time to get that money. Because wasting your time is hardcore!	
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The price is way too high for a fresh 50, let alone while leveling. Yes money is easy to acquire but there are 100 other things that need to be purchased as well, keeping you back in the filed, grind more quests. Which gets really old fast.
 
Experimenting, learning your amps and builds shouldn't be gated, at all. Not even a little. There are plenty of other mechanics that hinder progression in this game. removing one won't hurt anything.
 
Christ, it would make the MAJORITY of the players happy. Do something along those lines. it's been awhile.
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the cost scales up, in lower levels you can respecc for a dime and nickel. and as mentioned the cost for max level isnt that hard to come by.
 
some sort of "testspec" would be awesome tho to play around with amps, i agree. tho that would be hard to introduce. or at least i couldnt come up with a system that would be open to abuse, other than limiting the testspec to your houseplot or something like that.	
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			In endgame.. I dont care about 50g, it is not that much but I feel it somehow. I still think re-specc costs until 49 (our just max-level - 1) should be free of charge because the leveling process as such is considered a learning process as well and this should not drain money already - especially for new players.	
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Uh stop bashing and give argument?
Simply stating "you are wrong", makes point mood.
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...but I and everyone else have already stated the arguments over and over.
You just keep ignoring them. But once more just for you so you can't miss it:
 
You should not discourage players from experimenting to find the best playstyle.
 
You should not discourage players from experimenting to find the best playstyle.
 
You should not discourage players from experimenting to find the best playstyle.
 
You should not discourage players from experimenting to find the best playstyle.
 
You should not discourage players from experimenting to find the best playstyle.
 
 
 
It doesn't matter if the cost is "only" 50g, it is discouraging. You can't deny it.
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Uh stop bashing and give argument?
Simply stating "you are wrong", makes point mood.
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			Here is a suggestion.  Respec and then grind mobs for 30 minutes to test your new build. In those 30 minutes you will get your 50g back.	
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Cheap Respecs go against the Philosophy of the game. Theorycrafting should be costly.
 
 
#HARDCORE	
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this game lets you earn gold offline (farming circles). i  dont know where to put all my plat tbh (well ok, apart from +35% riding maybe). and i REALLY like to tinker with specs. i havent had the least trouble to pay for all the respecs. not even as fresh lvl50. i had around 5 plat on ding on my chars so far. ppl just be silly if they need 10+ respecs to figure out stuff. assuming they at least got the slightest bit of clue about their class after leveling 50 levels.
 
while you level up the respec cost is laughable. you can test/learn all you want then... and as mentioned... if the plat you got while leveling up still isnt enough to get you sorted, then you might come to the conclusion that the problem is not in the system
			
				
	Edited August 16, 2014 by BusterCasey
	
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Here is a suggestion.  Respec and then grind mobs for 30 minutes to test your new build. In those 30 minutes you will get your 50g back.
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Ani- that kind of model would lead to abusement.
 
respecc->do stuff->get gold back... free respecs.	
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and NO IT *cupcake*ING DOES NOT DISCOURAGE ppl from experimenting and testing
 
how about to use THE BRAAAAAAIN before setting points for starters?
 
this game lets you earn gold offline (farming circles). i *cupcake*ing dont know where to put all my plat tbh (well ok, apart from +35% riding maybe). and i REALLY like to tinker with specs. i havent had the least trouble to pay for all the respecs. not even as fresh lvl50. i had around 5 plat on ding on my chars so far. ppl just be retards if they need 10+ respecs to figure out stuff. assuming they at least got the slightest bit of clue about their class after leveling 50 levels.
 
while you level up the respec cost is laughable. you can test/learn all you want then... and as mentioned... if the plat you got while leveling up still isnt enough to get you sorted, then you might come to the conclusion that the problem is not in the system, but between the ears.
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			Dang wrong thread. How did that happen??	
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			I actually agree with this there are tons of gold sinks in this game I'm still working on making money for my gifts. I blow up to 3 plat or more a night in repairs and consumables, blowing 50 gold to do pvp for an hour after then another 50 gold to go back is not exactly something I want to do or enjoy doing.	
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What specifically need too buy then at 50?
What so important that have to be bought? Seems Chua missed out there.
 
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Let's take dying items as an example. It's not needed but it's completely ridiculous in cost. There absolutely no need for dying to cost anything let alone 90 gold for Eldan gold dye. It's stupidity. But people do it, they make USE of a system in Wildstar that was designed.
 
 
But very few people use it, very few waste that gold they use it on something else. An entire system is avoided because it was poorly thought out. Not many respec daily either, they'd like to , test their build and "enjoy" "play around" etc. but they can't they're required to go do work unless they want to blow that gold for something that won't change the games economy at all. Or they could spend it on something even more useful like amps / abilities.
 
Considering the reduced drop rate of useable items in dungeons and adventures, or the unicorns known as Amp/Ability points, which are more useful than most anything you can spend your money on. At some point you have to buy a replacement piece of gear because a .0000001% chance for a decent drop isn't very appealing at all, so few run adventures and dungeons anymore as well. I'm sure some do it for fun, I used to, but won't set foot in PvE again until its completely redone, which won't happen.
 
Finally, the only people that don't care about gold have 100s if not thousands of plat from getting paid to do something, non-elitists would have /should have done for free if the games "hardcore" mentality hadn't ruined that aspect early on. People have exploited many tradeskills, as well are now rich. They own the server they're on as well. There is no hope of catching up either (much like pvp in its current state, you're stuck and may as well forget about 1800 unless you pay ridiculous amounts of money)
 
I think perspective is skewed for most players as they're not on the populated servers anymore, so they don't see what's really going on with the Majority. I think Pergo and Widow are about it when it comes to servers, the rest can be shutdown/merged.
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Sorry, but is extremely biased and flawed view on game because of server might be playing on.
Chua's view is completely oposite of what described:
 
Chua change costumes and dye maybe not daily but weekly.
Dungeons and Adventures being run daily on server
Daily quests and raids done daily on server.
So for every personal point of view, Chua can throw counter argument.
And again both sides comparing personal views and not facts about why is bad.
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Just for research purpose.. what would be a non debatable argument which is not personal view? ^^ In other words, would be a justification for having respec-costs @50g. I am really curious^^.
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Sticking to a specific build, making Human think about investing points somewhere and not all end up with same cookie-cutter build in the end.
Although Chua think argument not as strong as hoping for, since can be copied anyways.
Making build/set up should be unique to character and playstyle. Intention of higher respec cost would be to prevent switching so much.
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Sticking to a specific build, making Human think about investing points somewhere and not all end up with same cookie-cutter build in the end.
Although Chua think argument not as strong as hoping for, since can be copied anyways.
Making build/set up should be unique to character and playstyle. Intention of higher respec cost would be to prevent switching so much.
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Actually not being able to change builds at will does lead to cookie cutter builds I love this game but there would be a ton more build diversity if you could switch builds at will with no monetary consideration. 
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Hmm ok... lets stick to that. Now, considering I build a specc which (of course) includes or better excludes all current bugs etcetera and maybe I have to avoid some AMPs whatever... . Now, bugs get fixed and spells I have in my active specc get bugged (not very surprising as reality shows). As a result I have to pay and commit this money sink because of game design failure? :D ... Why me?
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Actually not being able to change builds at will does lead to cookie cutter builds I love this game but there would be a ton more build diversity if you could switch builds at will with no monetary consideration. 
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Cause Carbine not like you? :D
Chua think if major changes are done, free respec would be in order.
Chua remember WoW did too when major abilities got overhaul.
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Yup. The average gold-conscious player will go "Well I don't want to keep respeccing if my builds don't work out.. I better look up what the common consensus on 'best build' is currently and roll with that!"
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Yes and No.
Chua believe depends on few factors such as goals of player, possibilities in game.
If game forces specific builds because only one or two options allow to break DPS/HPS limits, then yes, will force cookiecutter.
However if game supports multiple builds all viable or with different purpose, then no, will not lead to cookiecutter.
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There is no yes and no; if there was not a 50 gold barrier I would be switching to specific builds even on farm content instead of just on prog.  This is a fact period, they would be small gains to the point its not worth it for farm but for specific fights hell yes I would and still do for prog.
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 This is a fact period, they would be small gains to the point its not worth it for farm but for specific fights hell yes I would and still do for prog.
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Is fact cause you say so?
 
Denied.
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Is fact cause you say so?
 
Denied.
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1st thing. My 1st post that's getting a lot of likes is sarcasm. Secondly, I am going to have to agree with Xath for the 1st time ever lol.
 
Things I view as old hat and that need to die in MMORPGs:
Gemming and similar We know it's not actual Depth now. You can stop now. Atleast Blizz got rid of some enchanting. Wait....I'm an enchanter :unsure:
Gender Locked Roles/Classes Why is this still a thing?
Cast Bar or CD Spec/Role switching
Cast Bar mounting on PVE servers
PVP period. Get Rid of it. Yea I said it.	
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It REALLY needs to be lowered by like 90% or removed entirely. The fact that this is in the game at all is just stupid. I still haven't tried many different combinations because it simply costs too much. And then when you change stuff we have to test and pay to respec all over again? What a freaking mess.
 
50 gold is like 1/10th-1/20th of a cred which is just insane.
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50g is one zone of dailies.....
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Gender Locked Roles Why is this still a thing?
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I'd be supportive of the cost starting low but increasing if used frequently.
 
I'm going to chime in that yes, I used a "cookie cutter" build because i didn't want to waste money tuning my own idea. The cost prevented me from experimenting and finding my own way. If I had a chance to , i'd like to try other builds, but i have other things I want to do with the limited time I have to play. I don't want to farm for half my time just to cover respeccs.	
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50g is one zone of dailies.....
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			50 gold for a fresh 50 is a lot of money. And most fresh 50's will need to respec out of whatever crazy AMP setup they had while leveling.   	
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Sound more like "lazy"
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			The entire reason they made respecs so expensive is so you can't do them on the fly right before boss fights and the like. I think they should bring M.A.C back and make respecs at him cheaper. Place him in the capitals only, near the Target Dumbies. Then the experimenters can play and we don't have to worry about people min maxing every boss fight.	
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50 gold for a fresh 50 is a lot of money. And most fresh 50's will need to respec out of whatever crazy AMP setup they had while leveling.   
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The entire reason they made respecs so expensive is so you can't do them on the fly right before boss fights and the like.
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The entire reason they made respecs so expensive is so you can't do them on the fly right before boss fights and the like. I think they should bring M.A.C back and make respecs at him cheaper. Place him in the capitals only, near the Target Dumbies. Then the experimenters can play and we don't have to worry about people min maxing every boss fight.
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Wat?
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			never really liked repec costs and would be very happy if they decide to do away with them altogether	
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You mean what would make the game beyond awesome if you could easily customize for every fight some I want balanced on others I would rather have ua/enable or even shield recharge reduc
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Then whats the point of having specs?
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While 50g is only 50g... It's still a bit 'harsh' to new 50's. Total cupcake when your taking 2plat+ to find a spec without bugg'ed amps.
I mean, on retrospect it's once off, copy N paste 'the' spec from a website. But not very supportive of those of us who like to work/play with our own spec. 	
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They have already said they are changing it ... be patient its coming.
 
They said that, there will be a price that starts low will increase each time you reset - and each week or something it will go back to the low price.	
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They have already said they are changing it ... be patient its coming.
 
They said that, there will be a price that starts low will increase each time you reset - and each week or something it will go back to the low price.
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It REALLY needs to be lowered by like 90% or removed entirely. The fact that this is in the game at all is just stupid. I still haven't tried many different combinations because it simply costs too much. And then when you change stuff we have to test and pay to respec all over again? What a freaking mess.
 
50 gold is like 1/10th-1/20th of a cred which is just insane.
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...but I and everyone else have already stated the arguments over and over.
You just keep ignoring them. But once more just for you so you can't miss it:
 
You should not discourage players from experimenting to find the best playstyle.
 
You should not discourage players from experimenting to find the best playstyle.
 
You should not discourage players from experimenting to find the best playstyle.
 
You should not discourage players from experimenting to find the best playstyle.
 
You should not discourage players from experimenting to find the best playstyle.
 
 
 
It doesn't matter if the cost is "only" 50g, it is discouraging. You can't deny it.
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Dailies=50g=30 mins of dailies.  if you're at max elder points it's 25% of that or approximately 7.5 mins of dailies.  Still seem like too much?  Are you respeccing every 5 minutes?
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Dailies=50g=30 mins of dailies.  if you're at max elder points it's 25% of that or approximately 7.5 mins of dailies.  Still seem like too much?  Are you respeccing every 5 minutes?
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You know what else costs a lot of gold? Everything. I have 3 50s that all need rune sets, BiS gear from the CX because nothing ever drops for me in this game, armor repair costs etc etc etc. That's what, 2-300p worth of gold I need? I swear half of the people that are fine with this stuff are those that play one char, love mindlessly grinding dailies, and Ctrl-C + Ctrl-V everything from WS Base/guides.
 
It's like saying, "why can't you afford gas at $15 a gallon, you can make $20 an hour at work!".
 
Bleh. 
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I'm sorry, but why do you "need" all of that?  Please explain...
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I'm sorry, but why do you "need" all of that?  Please explain...
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Why do I need gear, runes and armor repairs? 
 
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No, no...why do you need to have best in slot, fully runed gear for three max level toons?  Are you raiding on all three?  Are you in a guild that requires alts to be fully optimized?  You used the word "need" so I'm assuming there was a reason for it other than preference, since nothing in the game requires you to be perfectly optimized except for the most difficult of end game content.  Your deflection to sarcasm indicates that you know exactly what I'm asking, though, and just don't have a reasonable answer for me...
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			So you're being sarcastic or your not?  You're saying it's expensive to level and 'maintain' one toon?  So let's say you max elder and do dailies once.  That's 2 plat you have to spend.  So it takes you, what, like a solid week to get the very best epic runes for your toon.  What else is costing you gold that you NEED to have?  I don't see a lot of raid level gear on AH.  So are you paying for your raid spot or something?  These are honest questions from me to someone who thinks 50g is too costly for a respec.	
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			Since I can have multiple specs I don't for see this being an issue.	
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So you're being sarcastic or your not?  You're saying it's expensive to level and 'maintain' one toon?  So let's say you max elder and do dailies once.  That's 2 plat you have to spend.  So it takes you, what, like a solid week to get the very best epic runes for your toon.  What else is costing you gold that you NEED to have?  I don't see a lot of raid level gear on AH.  So are you paying for your raid spot or something?  These are honest questions from me to someone who thinks 50g is too costly for a respec.
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			they still haven't addressed this issue, and it is just ignorant because the modification required to change it is simply changing 50gold to 5 gold or 50 silver or free or something along those lines.	
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Sure, not wanting to farm for gold to see how an AMP works is "lazy". 
Because with AMP/Ability points, RNG rune rolls and rep grind, you simply aren't farming enough in this game yet!
 
I'm done with this argument, I'll let other readers judge how silly you look right now.
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I have to buy amp respeccs every other bloody day as I am one of those players that hates to leave things to ' well now that my amps are set, lets leave it that way' . I frequantly pvp in 2v2's and 3v3's and I can say that yesterday alone, I has to respecc 3 times to get an ultimately optimal build  - I might still need to respecc again now that I have more amp points available and new options. It is not right and not fair that it is costing me this much just to be able to learn my playstyle and better myself.I believe the amp respecc cost should atleast be halved. I am fine with paying for an amp respecc but I cannot deal with the cost of it in it's current state. I don't shit money and I have 2 jobs and a real life to attend to yet between all that I still manage to get my daily wildstar in.How can I play and enjoy my money spent if I am time-gated so often due to the insane costings?
Couple that with the 3rd action slot LAS bug and I have had to respecc another 2 times just to get my pvp amps in action slot 1 and my dps amps in slot 2, leaving my tank in slot 3 now instead. Yes, I went there. That's an extra 1 plat wasted just so that I am not screwed over when entering an arena.I have spent a total of 4plat on amp respeccs. Where's the fun in that? I could have spent that cash on tweaking my runes instead.	
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Taking it to extreme levels there Psychostar. You don't have to respec 3 times for 2v2/3v3 in one day, you really don't. 
 
If you choose to do it anyway, then don't complain about the cost. Simply don't do it if you think it's too expensive.	
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Taking it to extreme levels there Psychostar. You don't have to respec 3 times for 2v2/3v3 in one day, you really don't. 
 
If you choose to do it anyway, then don't complain about the cost. Simply don't do it if you think it's too expensive.
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Repair costs are fine because it's only really bad if you suck and wipe a ton. 
 
Respec costs are too high for what it does right now. They need to either lower it or make it so the 50g respecs ALL your action sets. It's extremely retarded I have to pay 50g per action set because Carbine decided to move AMPs around.	
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Repair costs are fine because it's only really bad if you suck and wipe a ton. 
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			I'm honestly hyperparanoid that I'm messing something up/not finding the right builds online, and it's gonna gut me financially if I get to 50 and find that out. x.X It's enough to make me want to not even put in any AMP points until cap.	
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That's really what the large respect cost does: it kills experimentation. It makes people play safe and hoard the AMP points, saving them until the optimal build is discovered by someone else. The end result is a large decrease in the ammount of people doing the logistics for builds because, why bother? Even if they can think about builds and help the metagame, they won't actually try them because a build that doesn't work means they are losing a considerable chunk of their daily earnings. Better to let someone else to use their money experimenting with new builds ideas.
 
The price could be less of an issue if the normal ways to make money (dailies and grinding) weren't mind-boggingly boring.	
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			All this talk of expensive respecs I guess I'll throw in my two cents.  I think the cost is fine but I wouldn't mind a temporary undo button available for like 1 minute after you pay and confirm the respec. to clear it out again it if you screw up (sue me I'm sometimes absent minded).	
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Sure, not wanting to farm for gold to see how an AMP works is "lazy". 
Because with AMP/Ability points, RNG rune rolls and rep grind, you simply aren't farming enough in this game yet!
 
I'm done with this argument, I'll let other readers judge how silly you look right now.
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I honestly think you should be able to get an epic training ground or something in your house where you can spec whatever the hell you want and use it on dummies there.  To test specs etc out and finalise a spec.
 
Making someone pay 50g to find out that the garbage AMPs that we currently have don't do anything is taking the *cupcake*.
 
Then you still have to pay for it and repair it anyway but it can be repaired when you need it and it's not a "buy before you try" pay your money upfront and get your pants pulled down system.	
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It may be cheap to respect as you're levelling up, but who the hell does that?  They get whatever amps sound nice while levelling because your level and your gear are transient until you hit 50, so you can't benchmark anything due to fluctuating variables.
 
I fully agree that respec cost is much too high for a fresh 50, and when you consider you might have to do it for 2 specs, it's pretty messed up.
 
My first thought when I hit 50 was, "Hey wait a second, I've never respecced before and my respec cost is 50g?  Seriously?  Why isn't the first respect free, or why doesn't the cost go up the more you respec within a certain time frame like WoW?"
 
Now for an established 50, it's not very hard.  20 minutes and boom.  However, I don't like wasting money, so I'm not going to respec until I have data assembled by parsers or whatever that indicate so and so amp is better than what I'm using.  I'm not about to waste that much gold figuring it out for myself.	
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Respec cost shouldn't exist, it's meaningless and most of all purposeless, anyone that have an absurd amount of plat don't give 2 shits about it, anyone that is fresh 50 is extremely punished by it, pugging gets harder because it's not everyone in the world that goes to forums and read the best spec for their class, if anything i'm usually telling warriors when i randomly pug a dungeon or adventure to get out of tremor because it's garbage and to look for shunn dps warrior guide on google.
 
Pushing players away with respec cost is a bad idea, if anything a third and 4th LAS bar wouldn't even have to exist, less EG wasted on stupid crap ( like the third bar that still doesn't work properly) and more on the go changes for a group that have a dps with bad knowledge of their class.	
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			Isn't there enough Amp points out there to fill up every single spot?   Why would you need to respect it?	
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I agree that I would like to see the cost lowered or eliminated.  If they want to keep it a sink of some type at least put in some type of scaling system.  5g for the first one, 10g for the second, 15g for the third, 20g for the fourth, 25g for the fifth and everything there after and after two weeks of not respecing reset it to 5g.  Or something...  Let us experiment with AMPs...
 
Along those lines, put an LAS set purchase on the PvP vendor for Prestige and one on the Renown Vendor for Renown!	
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Most of the experimentation is already done on the PTR by the time changes go live. Carbine's not wasting your time by making you pay to respec, you're wasting yiur time by choosing to ignore all the work that was already done for you. Experiment on the PTR, that's what it's there for; and they give you everything you need!
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Average players have like 30-40 plat, this design teaches players to be more careful, players that do their research are rewarded, while players who are careless lose out, I dont see anything wrong with that, because thats the EXACT type of mentality you need to get through harder content later on in the game.
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So really this comes down to  you wanting to save your game money to get a free sub, rather then spend it on  respec?   It's just a money sink,  the mechanic is fine.   You get at least 6 plat every month to afford the CREDD if it's same price as on my server,  or about that.  Most people get 6 plat in a few days or faster..   
 
If you want to change AMPs so often go to the Test server and do it there.   But that'd take away your play time you use to grind up enough gold to buy CREDD right?   I mean that's what I get from your post here.
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So really this comes down to  you wanting to save your game money to get a free sub, rather then spend it on  respec?   It's just a money sink,  the mechanic is fine.   You get at least 6 plat every month to afford the CREDD if it's same price as on my server,  or about that.  Most people get 6 plat in a few days or faster..   
 
If you want to change AMPs so often go to the Test server and do it there.   But that'd take away your play time you use to grind up enough gold to buy CREDD right?   I mean that's what I get from your post here.
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The way I read it is; 
 
There's a shitload of money sinks in the game for no good reason and respec is one of the most uncalled for.
 
Clearly the shitty RNG is to blame for most of it. Although it's sort of being "fixed" with new "lighter" version of RNG.
 
Maybe after Drop 3 he won't be so hostile about spending 50g on a Respec.
 
Which is still stupid, and I would prefer a scaling cost. The more your respec in a period of time, the more it costs. Then the cost resets after some amount of time.
 
Whatever.
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Hey everyone,
 
We need to get this thread back to the constructive end of the axis, please. Let's not with the ad hominem attacks and all that jazz.
 
Thanks,Team WildStar	
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{| class="blockquote"
Hey everyone,
 
We need to get this thread back to the constructive end of the axis, please. Let's not with the ad hominem attacks and all that jazz.
 
Thanks,
Team WildStar
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I do not see the price being ridiculious.   I see 50g  as being fine and low considering the over all Platnium flow you get at lvl 50.
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Hey everyone,
 
We need to get this thread back to the constructive end of the axis, please. Let's not with the ad hominem attacks and all that jazz.
 
Thanks,
Team WildStar
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If you have feedback about the moderation of these forums, please send it to theredphone@carbinestudios.com. I did a lot of purging of non-constructive posts in an effort to get the thread somewhere back on track. If this is something important enough to continue discussing, please try to keep posts civil, constructive, and on-topic.If someone is violating the Code of Conduct (linked in my signature), please report them so we can review it and move on.
 
Thanks,Team WildStar	
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{| class="blockquote"
Man I WISH I had 30-40 plat...  Every time I grind up for a CREDD every month and then continue to spend my plat on re-rolling gear for better slots, helping guildies gear up, etc, etc, etc...  There's ALWAYS something to spend money on and I'm always down around 1 plat by the time the day is over (unless I'm saving for that CREDD)...
 
I do a lot of research but sometimes I'd just rather not take someone elses word for it and theory only goes so far.  I don't think removing or lowering it supports laziness, I think it supports accessibility.
 
I don't have a problem with paying the 50g, I can make that easily, BUT I would rather save my money for other things...
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Your "Platinum Flow" is about 1 per day after EG's are capped for the dailies. You get 33.3% each day for dailies. So, unless you farm something; dungeons, adventures, or just plain old farming mobs.... It will take you 3 days to cap. 
 
Tuesday reset, capped by Thursday from just normal dailies. That gives you 4 more days of dailies for 4p. If you Raid, well you don't earn money in there, so that won't help at all. Dungeons are in the same boat as Raids for making money. Adventures aren't too bad, but money earned vs. time spent is terrible. So off to farming you go!
 
Most AH/CX are shot to hell for crafting or drops, only gathering is any good at this point. 
 
There is no "Platinum Flow" at level 50 unless you are out farming the hell out of stuff in one way or another. So let's revisit Money sinks....
 
For instance, I have 33 Runeslots and have crafted all my BiS gear and Weapon. It cost me over 8p to rune my gear ONCE, following a guide and making sure I used Runemaster and written notes so i wouldn't screw up. I even had the majority of the items required to create the runes. There are many, very expensive, money sinks in this game. Asking for a scaling mechanic to be applied to respecs isn't that ridiculous. Plus, it's nice to get a break here and there. Makes the other, more valuable, money sinks seem worth it.
 
 
The PTR argument is a strawman at best. It's his fault he doesn't install a second client to quickly test a Build or AMP change? Not to mention the setups on the PTR aren't even the same as live. So that throws the PTR right out the window.
 
The market prices argument is a fallacy because the prices are going to creep up over time anyway through players naturally holding on to more and more money. Go look at WoW and see how things were worth a few silver once and are now worth several gold. It occurs naturally over time. Hell, look at the price of CREDD. People thought 1p was a ton of money when the game started, now people think of 1p as a joke. People were buying CREDD for 2-3p, it's almost 10 times that amount now!	
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I can agree with that for most people (myself included) but I do have some people in the guild I'm in that struggle to make plat considering they're fresh 50's or recently 50 and working on gear and the such.  Out of curiosity why do you feel there needs to be any cost?
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{| class="blockquote"
Your "Platinum Flow" is about 1 per day after EG's are capped for the dailies. You get 33.3% each day for dailies. So, unless you farm something; dungeons, adventures, or just plain old farming mobs.... It will take you 3 days to cap. 
 
Tuesday reset, capped by Thursday from just normal dailies. That gives you 4 more days of dailies for 4p. If you Raid, well you don't earn money in there, so that won't help at all. Dungeons are in the same boat as Raids for making money. Adventures aren't too bad, but money earned vs. time spent is terrible. So off to farming you go!
 
Most AH/CX are shot to hell for crafting or drops, only gathering is any good at this point. 
 
There is no "Platinum Flow" at level 50 unless you are out farming the hell out of stuff in one way or another. So let's revisit Money sinks....
 
For instance, I have 33 Runeslots and have crafted all my BiS gear and Weapon. It cost me over 8p to rune my gear ONCE, following a guide and making sure I used Runemaster and written notes so i wouldn't screw up. I even had the majority of the items required to create the runes. There are many, very expensive, money sinks in this game. Asking for a scaling mechanic to be applied to respecs isn't that ridiculous. Plus, it's nice to get a break here and there. Makes the other, more valuable, money sinks seem worth it.
 
 
The PTR argument is a strawman at best. It's his fault he doesn't install a second client to quickly test a Build or AMP change? Not to mention the setups on the PTR aren't even the same as live. So that throws the PTR right out the window.
 
The market prices argument is a fallacy because the prices are going to creep up over time anyway through players naturally holding on to more and more money. Go look at WoW and see how things were worth a few silver once and are now worth several gold. It occurs naturally over time. Hell, look at the price of CREDD. People thought 1p was a ton of money when the game started, now people think of 1p as a joke. People were buying CREDD for 2-3p, it's almost 10 times that amount now!
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Point is they made it so there are choices, and they gave players the resources to make smarter choices (Ability to test anything that costs in the PTR) 
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PTR is not a choice. Many of the Abilties and AMP's on there are literally NOT THE SAME AS LIVE. It's not an option, and it's not a resource. Now if you said those things in correlation to a spec you wanted to use in a future patch or drop, you might have an leg to stand on.
 
I was talking to Meya about Platinum Flow, not you. Also, I'm pretty sure you don't understand at least 1 of the things you typed in your last sentence.
 
Unless you are willing to farm, the "Platinum Flow" isn't that high. The reason it may appear that way, is a direct result of Farmers and exploiters. 
 
Can it be easy to make money? Hell yes if you put in the time. 
 
Is there a legitimate reason it costs 50g to respec? No, there isn't.
 
Again, there's more than enough money sinks in the game. Respeccing should be one, and if it *should* be, then they should scale it so if a player wants to keep hitting the button, then it's their fault for the cost.	
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			I agree that it should scale up more you use it,  But  I don't think it should go away, also  those other things are also money sinks.  Maybe they are combating the  CREDD Platnium flow of plat into certain players?   That seems silly if that's the case.	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
 
Choices sure, but my opinion would be that by putting the cost in they limit people's choices.  Not all of us have the spare time to download and run the PTR regularly, not to mention it isn't always about testing.  Sometimes it's about wanting more than just two builds and not yet having a third LAS.  So yeah, they force me into making a choice, spending EG's on a third LAS or 50g on a respec.  So I spend the 50g.  But imo that's not good choice, that's ultimatum choice.  We'll just end up disagreeing on that point I fear though.
 
I can see your thought process with this and to a point I agree.  But I do stand by the statement that not all of us have time to play on the PTR.  I personally have limited play time.  I can spend that time trying something new on the PTR with a reduced population available for testing, OR I can test it on the live servers where I have a bigger population AND can make progress.  So for example, I like to change up things on my PvP AMPs from time to time.  If I go to the PTR the odds of getting into a match in short order are pretty low due to the population being pretty low.  Also any gains I make there are moot and don't translate to my characters progression.  Alternatively I can do that same testing on the live servers, try a new AMP layout (maybe move ONE or two AMPs around), get a match quickly AND make prestige gains.  Sounds like the better solution for someone like me with more limited play time.
 
 
We're not talking about EVERYTHING, we're talking about reducing or removing the cost to spec.  Alternatively I'd be ok with them raising the cost to insta rez where you were.  There are just OTHER ways to bleed money than this.  I feel like this limits peoples choices and the ability to try new things.  Not to mention the market is already broken and no amount of bleeding money from players via a 50g respec cost is going to fix the damage those flying harvesters did in the first month of the game, other things need to happen to fix that...
 
 
I'm not saying make it cost nothing, I was and am for a reduction in the cost and a scaling price point.  Though I honestly don't see what would be so bad about removing it entirely, especially when they're introducing new sinks with the Housing music, wallpaper, etc, etc, etc in Drop 3.  Put in new mounts and add a huge cost to them for luxory items, put in costume pieces at a cost, etc, etc, etc.  I'm just firmly of the opinion that there can be and should be money sinks OTHER than taking away players choices when it comes to builds.
 
 
I get that, I surely do.  But why can't the money sink be cosmetic with costume gear, or mounts.  I just honestly think that limiting people's build choices is the wrong way to bleed money.  Like I said above, scale it, start it at 5g, increase the cost by 5g every time until you hit 25g and then it stays 25g until you don't reset your AMPs for two weeks, after two weeks of no AMP resets drop it back to 5g.  I'm going to side with the people that are poor and want more choices, than the people that are rich and feel like it's not a big deal.
 
 
So as to not being forced to respec you're correct.  But sometimes you do it to help people (like your guild if they need a healer and you have a PvE DPS and PvP DPS spec), it's not about making a mistake and being punished by a gold cost.  It's about having the ability to do different things more frequently for less money.
 
And you should read that line about not dictating plat flow because he doesn't make as much per day because you're arguing EXACTLY that for why 50g is cool, you make more than others so it's not a problem.  Think about it from the shoes of someone who can only play an hour or two a day and doesn't necessarily EG cap in three days...
 
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Lysith yeah I thought it was higher,  some of my 50's friends are always gloating about how much PP  they have... so I thought it was really high.
 
Still I support a money sink in respec,   but now I think it should be scaled  starting at 10silver  and going up  X amount.   No cap > :D   have it go down if you don't respec for awhile like  equal to the amount that it scaled up it can scale down after three days of not respec'ing maybe..   	
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{| class="blockquote"
PTR is not a choice. Many of the Abilties and AMP's on there are literally NOT THE SAME AS LIVE. It's not an option, and it's not a resource. Now if you said those things in correlation to a spec you wanted to use in a future patch or drop, you might have an leg to stand on.
 
I was talking to Meya about Platinum Flow, not you. Also, I'm pretty sure you don't understand at least 1 of the things you typed in your last sentence.
 
Unless you are willing to farm, the "Platinum Flow" isn't that high. The reason it may appear that way, is a direct result of Farmers and exploiters. 
 
Can it be easy to make money? Hell yes if you put in the time. 
 
Is there a legitimate reason it costs 50g to respec? No, there isn't.
 
Again, there's more than enough money sinks in the game. Respeccing should be one, and if it *should* be, then they should scale it so if a player wants to keep hitting the button, then it's their fault for the cost.
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I don't know why you're so hung up on the PTR and people having buyers remorse on their builds.  It's almost as if you're not reading my post and my examples.  I get what you're saying, and if it was a simple matter of buyers remorse I agree with you.  But it's NOT about buyers remorse.  It's about wanting to play PvE DPS sometimes, and PvP DPS sometimes, and PvE healing sometimes, and PvP healing sometimes, and how my DPS Raid Build is not the most efficient thing for farming, etc, etc, etc.
 
Also you argue that a money sink is necessary and I absolutely agree that it is.  But why can't it be somewhere else that doesn't impact my above statement?	
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I don't know why you're so hung up on the PTR and people having buyers remorse on their builds.  It's almost as if you're not reading my post and my examples.  I get what you're saying, and if it was a simple matter of buyers remorse I agree with you.  But it's NOT about buyers remorse.  It's about wanting to play PvE DPS sometimes, and PvP DPS sometimes, and PvE healing sometimes, and PvP healing sometimes, and how my DPS Raid Build is not the most efficient thing for farming, etc, etc, etc.
 
Also you argue that a money sink is necessary and I absolutely agree that it is.  But why can't it be somewhere else that doesn't impact my above statement?
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2 LAS isn't, imo, enough for people who like to do some of everything.  For me my respecing isn't about not knowing, not researching, or buyers remorse.  It's about wanting to do more than two things.  I get that tailoring to individuals can be a slippery slope, but in this case I don't think it's a detriment, I think it's a benefit and that the initial cost is poor design choice.  I believe a lower initial cost that scales up, I'll again use the example of 5g for the initial increasing by 5g every time to a cap of 25g with it going down by 5g every week you don't respec to a minimum of 5g would be a great compromise that allows people to change their play style more frequently without removing a money sink completely.
 
Yeah I could buy a 3rd LAS, and eventually will, but until I'm capped on Ability Points and AMP Points I fear buying a third LAS is a poor use of EG's.  The way Carbine built the game I don't view myself as "max level" until I have all the Ability points and AMP points available.  Without those points I'm not maxed, so I'll spend my EG's there prior to a third LAS.  Which again means I pay for respecs.  I do it once or twice a week on average, so I spend a plat a week on average bouncing between learning to heal in PvE, PvP or dps'ing in PvP.  The only thing that stays constant is my PvE DPS Build that I use for dailies and Vet Dungeons/Adventures.
 
I think your confusing hard with time/money sink.  Those aren't the same thing, at least not to me.  Having a respec cost 50g doesn't make the game hard, it makes me have to spend more time farming and less time experiencing the truly hard things about the game, such as dungeons and raids.  Maybe you and I just have different definitions of that word though,	
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{| class="blockquote"
2 LAS isn't, imo, enough for people who like to do some of everything.  For me my respecing isn't about not knowing, not researching, or buyers remorse.  It's about wanting to do more than two things.  I get that tailoring to individuals can be a slippery slope, but in this case I don't think it's a detriment, I think it's a benefit and that the initial cost is poor design choice.  I believe a lower initial cost that scales up, I'll again use the example of 5g for the initial increasing by 5g every time to a cap of 25g with it going down by 5g every week you don't respec to a minimum of 5g would be a great compromise that allows people to change their play style more frequently without removing a money sink completely.
 
Yeah I could buy a 3rd LAS, and eventually will, but until I'm capped on Ability Points and AMP Points I fear buying a third LAS is a poor use of EG's.  The way Carbine built the game I don't view myself as "max level" until I have all the Ability points and AMP points available.  Without those points I'm not maxed, so I'll spend my EG's there prior to a third LAS.  Which again means I pay for respecs.  I do it once or twice a week on average, so I spend a plat a week on average bouncing between learning to heal in PvE, PvP or dps'ing in PvP.  The only thing that stays constant is my PvE DPS Build that I use for dailies and Vet Dungeons/Adventures.
 
I think your confusing hard with time/money sink.  Those aren't the same thing, at least not to me.  Having a respec cost 50g doesn't make the game hard, it makes me have to spend more time farming and less time experiencing the truly hard things about the game, such as dungeons and raids.  Maybe you and I just have different definitions of that word though,
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I find it cute that you keep hammering on the word choice instead of the actual point of the conversation.
 
You say a person can log into the PTR and test a spec before speccing that way.
 
I say that's not a valid response because the stuff on PTR doesn't allow you to test a spec you would use in Live.
 
Which is fact, the truth, THE POINT.
 
I'm an SS, there isn't currently a damn thing I could log into the PTR and test right now that would help me in live, right now.
 
Which is the point of testing a spec.
 
Will it help me in 2 months, maybe, but only if all those changes make to Live, intact, without bugs.
 
Which has yet to happen.
 
Keep moving those Goal Posts, you'll get it sooner or later.	
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			I'd argue if the cost is lower that people would do it more frequently as the accessibility would be increased and as a byproduct of that frequency more money would be dumped to the betterment of the economy.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I'd argue if the cost is lower that people would do it more frequently as the accessibility would be increased and as a byproduct of that frequency more money would be dumped to the betterment of the economy.
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{| class="blockquote"
I find it cute that you keep hammering on the word choice instead of the actual point of the conversation.
 
You say a person can log into the PTR and test a spec before speccing that way.
 
I say that's not a valid response because the stuff on PTR doesn't allow you to test a spec you would use in Live.
 
Which is fact, the truth, THE POINT.
 
I'm an SS, there isn't currently a damn thing I could log into the PTR and test right now that would help me in live, right now.
 
Which is the point of testing a spec.
 
Will it help me in 2 months, maybe, but only if all those changes make to Live, intact, without bugs.
 
Which has yet to happen.
 
Keep moving those Goal Posts, you'll get it sooner or later.
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{| class="blockquote"
That would be another discussion, but its a possibility yes. But I think with how the economy is going... 50g is low enough for the average player to use repeatedly already. I know I have used it without feeling like it was too much.
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{| class="blockquote"
I can respect your view point but I'm still firmly entrenched in mine.  Lowering the cost and adding scaling would encourage it to be utilized more, thusly generating a larger gold sink.  It's the same logic retailers use pricing an item at $9.99 (or whatever $0.99 variant), it gets people thinking "Wow, that's less than $10! I should buy it".  Though I guess by that logic I should be arguing for a 49 g 99 silver price point, lol.  I hope you can take away my logic without crucifying me for the example (  ;) ).
 
I honestly don't think the average player is using it because it has a 50g price point.  But again neither of us has any data on what an average player is or what they're spending their gold on.  I just know I got people in my guild who belly ache about spending cash on respec's when they move to fulfill a different role for the guild because they're broke.  Granted these people are constantly dumping money into housing items and crafting.  But that in and of itself is the entire crux of my argument, there are other ways to bleed coin from the economy to stabilize it and remove gold than charging the current price for a re-spec.
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Hey everyone,
 
Since this thread has run it's course and devolved into the same back-and-forth arguments, I'm going to shut it down now.
 
Thanks,Team WildStar	
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