146806-thx-for-all-the-pure-rune-fragments

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But I have no Set or Class focus major to use them on!
 
Seriously what's the point to having 10 fragments per bag if you aren't getting any set or class focus to go with?
 
Nobody wants the non-set runes aside from fusion runes!
 
We were already getting more fragments than we would use them on focuses...	
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I'm not fond of adding yet another grind to end-game.  Having to gear up is expected.  On top of that you've added the AMP and Ability tier unlocks (which many people hate).  Now we need to grind for set focuses?  Are you guys trying to make people loathe end-game?
 
I understand the desire to create "chase" sets but that should be limited to class sets only at worst.	
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			I'm just gonna sit on my 15k Glory. No point buying those bags if it's to just shove more fragments into my bank	
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			I think they went a bit overboard with the fragment buff especially if the only thing that will matter now are foci. Why even keep signs and fragments in the game at this point?	
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			I hope this thread is a joke thread.	
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I hope this thread is a joke thread.
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			Right, lol. 30 bags 1 major focus 300+ fragments, Finally i can put 1 rune in my gear after grinding 15k glory /s this literally changed nothing and now focuses are going to cost like 10p+ right back where exceptional tokens were :)	
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I'm mixed on majors needing to be buffed.
 
Beforehand, fragments were a limiting factor. Now, we get enough fragments to actually rune stuff. We are getting a heck ton of divine focuses via raiding and salvaging unwanted 96 items.
 
Superb runes are meant to be used to access raid content, and divine to progress from GA onto Datascape. Encouraging people to organize themselves to get into the highest tier of PvE content available is the way to go in my opinion. The ones who complain are frustrated, yes, but the real question is : do you truly need them ? If the answer is yes, why ?
			
				
	Edited November 11, 2015 by Kinseb	
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Many of you are exaggerating the Major foci drop rates. I think things are fine now besides that maybe we are getting too many fragments could tone it down to 5 to 7. I say this because of the effect it gives when people look at their inventory, especially when people start to compare fragments to foci. I have gotten quite a bit of Majors from bags but looking at it from a game development standpoint the drop rate is again...fine. 
 
You have to consider the fact that Pure runes fit into raid quality gear, Pure foci drop on almost everything that drops loot in GA. If you have GA gear you can easily get by with Superb and slowly upgrade to Pure once you get foci from raids and bags. Keep in mind the difference between Superb and Pure is only 70 stat points and the amount of % you get from that is meh most of the "meat" from your stats come from the bonuses, same goes for Pure to Divine ( Only difference being that you dont want to delete any Pure runes in 110+ gear so it can get a little tedious at that level of gear if you are using Pures to hold you down). Once you acquire the right runes just delete the old ones especially if they are Superb no need wasting service tokens on Superb set runes which is part of what make people QQ they want to hold onto runes even the ones they remove ( I can understand holding onto Pure and Divine runes but Superb runes are expendable). 
 
The issue before this patch was that even Superb runes had such a low drop rate you couldnt even use that as a fall back but that has changed..think outside the box.
			
				
	Edited November 11, 2015 by Jorn	
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Many of you are exaggerating the Major foci drop rates. I think things are fine now besides that maybe we are getting too many fragments could tone it down to 5 to 7. I say this because of the effect it gives when people look at their inventory, especially when people start to compare fragments to foci. I have gotten quite a bit of Majors from bags but looking at it from a game development standpoint the drop rate is again...fine. 
 
You have to consider the fact that Pure runes fit into raid quality gear, Pure foci drop on almost everything that drops loot in GA. If you have GA gear you can easily get by with Superb and slowly upgrade to Pure once you get foci from raids and bags. Keep in mind the difference between Superb and Pure is only 70 stat points and the amount of % you get from that is meh most of the "meat" from your stats come from the bonuses, same goes for Pure to Divine ( Only difference being that you dont want to delete any Pure runes in 110+ gear so it can get a little tedious at that level of gear if you are using Pures to hold you down). Once you acquire the right runes just delete the old ones especially if they are Superb no need wasting service tokens on Superb set runes which is part of what make people QQ they want to hold onto runes even the ones they remove ( I can understand holding onto Pure and Divine runes but Superb runes are expendable). 
 
The issue before this patch was that even Superb runes had such a low drop rate you couldnt even use that as a fall back but that has changed..think outside the box.
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Let me just point out something to those complaining about the end game grind. Have you EVER played an MMO besides WildStar? The end game is nothing BUT a grind... get over yourselves. Now that it is free to play, do you think there is incentive for them to allow you to get end game items faster? Nope.
 
If you are against having to raid in order to get the set focus'... You need RAID GEAR to use PURE RUNES. So your argument is invalid if you are complaining about having to raid to get the set focus'. So complaining that you have to raid to get the rune to put in gear you have to raid to get... wow... I just don't know what to say to that.
 
***EDIT*** Yeah, so... I didn't pay the best attention the the contracts (big reason why I was SOOOO Far behind on exceptional runes), so I will admit I was wrong about the gear.
			
				
	Edited November 13, 2015 by h4vix	
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like some1 said before.. pure and Divine are meant for End game. this aint the ordinary day to day mmo where u get everything handed 2 u the same day u ding end level.. if u want better stuff be patient. work for it and feel the reward feeling from it once u get it.
 
all i can say is i love that u wont get focuses from left to right. it would kill half the game for me since i see them as a END game reward  and shud be treated as such considering what stats they give ect ect.
 
 
peeps saying they dont have time to raid ect well u wont need the divine either so thats a + for ya. Pure at its max since u can get ilvl items for those in other ways than raiding. but divine is Raiding Exclusive.	
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I don't care how much glory it cost me to get those *cupcake* focis.
 
I care that I have to play casino in order to freaking get those focis.
I care that I have to compete with 19 other people for the only reliable source of focis.
I care that I can't get 6/6 Devastation without those pure focis.
I care about the complete imbalance between Superb versus Pure and Divine focis.
 
How about just giving us an option to trade minors and fragments into major?
100 fragments for 1 major
10 minors for 1 major.
I don't care what the rate is, I just want a reasonable, reliable way to get those damn focis without having to look at 20 bags of useless crap just because the Casino owner loaded the dices.
 
 
P.S. Superb were hard to get?
I have 80 suberb major focis and I could easily get enough fragments to use all of those focis back before the patch.
 
This is the same thing we see all over the game.
Always the extremes. Everything in a vacuum.
Too little and too much all the time.
How about getting the just middle for once?
			
				
	Edited November 11, 2015 by Fluffy McNuggets	
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If you are against having to raid in order to get the set focus'... You need RAID GEAR to use PURE RUNES. So your argument is invalid if you are complaining about having to raid to get the set focus'. So complaining that you have to raid to get the rune to put in gear you have to raid to get... wow... I just don't know what to say to that.
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I don't care what the rate is, I just want a reasonable, reliable way to get those damn focis without having to look at 20 bags of useless crap just because the Casino owner loaded the dices.
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I don't care how much glory it cost me to get those *cupcake* focis.
 
I care that I have to play casino in order to freaking get those focis.
I care that I have to compete with 19 other people for the only reliable source of focis.
I care that I can't get 6/6 Devastation without those pure focis.
I care about the complete imbalance between Superb versus Pure and Divine focis.
 
How about just giving us an option to trade minors and fragments into major?
100 fragments for 1 major
10 minors for 1 major.
I don't care what the rate is, I just want a reasonable, reliable way to get those damn focis without having to look at 20 bags of useless crap just because the Casino owner loaded the dices.
 
 
P.S. Superb were hard to get?
I have 80 suberb major focis and I could easily get enough fragments to use all of those focis back before the patch.
 
This is the same thing we see all over the game.
Always the extremes. Everything in a vacuum.
Too little and too much all the time.
How about getting the just middle for once?
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I hope this thread is a joke thread.
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I guess for someone like me who pugs GA and doesn't have the time for a set guild raid is just SOL huh.
 
That or I fork over 7 plat for it on the CX lol	
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I guess for someone like me who pugs GA and doesn't have the time for a set guild raid is just SOL huh.
 
That or I fork over 7 plat for it on the CX lol
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I guess for someone like me who pugs GA and doesn't have the time for a set guild raid is just SOL huh.
 
That or I fork over 7 plat for it on the CX lol
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the prices for the majors will go down soon, its the initial wave of players finally optimising their gear since now the fragments are pretty much free.
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Do you not run as a carry during LoR runs or something?
 
Since when is it that puggers in GA are SoL?
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			I'm on dominion NA and haven't seen anything like that yet - only seen some gdkp runs.  Sounds like it could be a solution in the future when I don't need upgrades from GA anymore (thought I hit that ilvl req).  Currently I just join up in guild alt runs/ people filling in some odd slots for an off night. 	
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You dommie or exile, NA or EU?
 
Over on NA Exile we have these things called LoR pugs.  You either roll on Loot or you roll on Runes / money maker mats.  To be eligible for Runes you need to be i96 or higher with an i96 or higher weapon.
Runes/Moneymakers are handled at the end of the run and split as evenly as possible, so it gives them incentive to stay the whole run.
 
Think of it as a better gdkp run.
			
				
	Edited November 12, 2015 by MoePork	
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Still, it would be nice for SOME way to have at least a little bit of a guarantee of having them come by.  I'm fine with grinding, but after dropping over a weeks worth of glory into bags and getting jack just feels discouraging.  Trading up, even at a big ratio, at least gives you some feeling of "working twords" it instead of grinding, then playing RNG time.
 
Maybe im doing it wrong and should just salvage anything I get that's GA quality - i have been known to be god awful at the game.
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While I'm not everyone - I have to re-iterate that 1) I can't make guild raid times, and the guild I'm in is just getting into GA - most stuff is going to go into gear up people/ giving runes to people who show up.
 
And again - I'm not asking for rune sets to fall from the sky, but some small way to get them that's not pure RNG based.  Even if it's like 1 rune a week (or every week and a half).	
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you can get divine set focus major/minor from the bags too
 
The class focus should only come from ga/ds actual raids but i wouldnt be surprised if there is a very low chance to drop those too	
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lets say you get 10/30k glory (i got 9) so you make 1/3k glory -> 1/6 DS runebags (~20k glory to get 10 GA major set foci)
thats not too much grind per week to get at least 1 major on average?
daily dungeon on most days/raiding 1-2 days should do it?
			
				
	Edited November 12, 2015 by furoflo	
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lets say you get 10/30k glory (i got 9) so you make 1/3k glory -> 1/6 DS runebags (~20k glory to get 10 GA major set foci)
thats not too much grind per week to get at least 1 major on average?
daily dungeon on most days/raiding 1-2 days should do it?
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While I'm not everyone - I have to re-iterate that 1) I can't make guild raid times, and the guild I'm in is just getting into GA - most stuff is going to go into gear up people/ giving runes to people who show up.
 
And again - I'm not asking for rune sets to fall from the sky, but some small way to get them that's not pure RNG based.  Even if it's like 1 rune a week (or every week and a half).
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I'm not fond of adding yet another grind to end-game.  Having to gear up is expected.  On top of that you've added the AMP and Ability tier unlocks (which many people hate).  Now we need to grind for set focuses?  Are you guys trying to make people loathe end-game?
 
I understand the desire to create "chase" sets but that should be limited to class sets only at worst.
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I bought 9k worth of pure glory bags. Ended up getting like 6 or so major set focuses
 
Right before that, I bought 14k worth of Divine Rune Bags... and ended up getting 8 Divine Majors (and 10+ minors)
			
				
	Edited November 12, 2015 by h4vix	
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The class focus should only come from ga/ds actual raids but i wouldnt be surprised if there is a very low chance to drop those too
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Over on NA Exile we have these things called LoR pugs.  You either roll on Loot or you roll on Runes / money maker mats.  To be eligible for Runes you need to be i96 or higher with an i96 or higher weapon.
Runes/Moneymakers are handled at the end of the run and split as evenly as possible, so it gives them incentive to stay the whole run.
 
Think of it as a better gdkp run.
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I got a major class focus from salvaging GA gear. I'm guessing it's not a high drop rate.
 
From glory bags I got 1 major set focus from about 15 bags. Drop rate could probably be a little bit higher. We actually have a lot of the major set focuses in our guild bank from our weekly GA clears, but I think it's going to be painful trying to get everyone runed out when we get glory unlocks for DS.
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Yes you can get class focus off of gear in their respective Raid zones but its very low you got lucky.
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Are people *cupcake*ing serious here?
Comparing pure and divine runes to superb?
 
Raids don't give shit for set runes.
How can people say it gives a lot of runes when an entire raid lockout, even with full clear, doesn't even net 1 major focus per player in the raid?
 
Yes I raid, with a guild.
Yes I perfectly understand the rune system. I even wrote a guide that explains the runecrafting s
 
Something tells me the people who are against giving a reliable, non-RNG based way to get major focis are either getting fed their focis by their guild at the expense of others, don't have to deal with devastation rune set or got the RNG god on their side.
 
Sorry that not everyone enjoy playing casino.	
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			Drop rate is too low atm. Per 1 ga you get like 6+8=14 major set. That's less than half of 1 person fully runed. So you'd have to do 45+ clears just to let everyone rune their main specs on 1 character. It'll definitely make us not get any runes until we are done with progression in new raids, which is just boring. Getting new runes just for farm. I believe that the droprate should be increased like 2-3 times of what it is now.	
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			Higher chance of dropping majors if you go for the GA challenges. 	
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Higher chance of dropping majors if you go for the GA challenges.
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			Wasn't salvaging gear supposed to give decent chances for set focii in this patch?	
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Wasn't salvaging gear supposed to give decent chances for set focii in this patch?
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Are people *cupcake*ing serious here?
Comparing pure and divine runes to superb?
 
Raids don't give shit for set runes.
How can people say it gives a lot of runes when an entire raid lockout, even with full clear, doesn't even net 1 major focus per player in the raid?
 
Yes I raid, with a guild.
Yes I perfectly understand the rune system. I even wrote a guide that explains the runecrafting s
 
Something tells me the people who are against giving a reliable, non-RNG based way to get major focis are either getting fed their focis by their guild at the expense of others, don't have to deal with devastation rune set or got the RNG god on their side.
 
Sorry that not everyone enjoy playing casino.
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Nope I dont get fed any runes in fact we have a rotation that is kept very tight. The difference between Pure and Superbs are what miles apart according to you. You can clear GA in superbs if you know what you are doing and still place in a decent percentile on Wildstar Logs...if that even matters. Point is you are starting to sound as if you are throwing a tantrum at something that isnt as big as you make it out to be. The equation I put is only an example but its pretty close to accurate especially since I just recently upgraded a few runes and can tell you its NOT a big deal especially in GA gear having superbs as for DS I have pures in some pieces and when the time comes I will decide to destroy or keep the rune to replace it with a Divine depending on the market.
 
Patch is out for a few days and this thread was made why ? Can only assume you want everything given easily in a few days times ....Heck want an invite for an Avatus kill and get carried? Throw any sense of effort out the window. Everyone always cries for FREE FREE MORE MORE. Only thing  I can agree with was the change to Fragments but I think Major and Minor Foci are ok if anything they can increase it in RAIDs by 1 or 2 more per boss/challenge but even that might not be needed its too early to tell.
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-snip-
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Do you say anything that isn't a toxic dismissal of everyone else?
 
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*snip*
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You were quite lucky. I did a bunch of testing with drop rates on the PTR (spent about 1M on both bags and salvage to compare). Average is about ~1-2 majors for every 10k glory spent (20 bags). I saw less when I spent my glory on live (got 4 majors for ~60k spent). 
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Getting pure majors is RNG though.
 
That's my only issue.  Not grinding, not having to take a long time to get it, but the major way I can get is as a pugger/ non guild raider, is 100% RNG (or buying it for 7 plat a rune on the CX).
 
If I see one more person put words in my mouth saying I'm asking to be handed free runes in a week... Yeah okay.	
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The problem I have is with the design, which wasn't there in the old system.  You have to grind heavily to get geared, by raiding, farming contracts/currency/whatever.  Then you have to DO IT AGAIN.  The whole point of RNG gear dropping from raids is to create that "reward moment" for players.  Now, instead, it's a "Well *cupcake*, now I have to farm more runes" moment.  Not only is it stupid design, bad and unfun gameplay, but it's also a pretty blatant cash grab. Especially obvious since the gold costs for extraction they added yesterday are at 1.5plat per rune.
 
You ALWAYS have to grind to perfect gear. There isn't a single MMO in existence that I can remember ever NOT having to grind. You complete content repeatedly (aka grind) to collect enough supplies / items / tokens / pieces / etc to progress in all MMO's, that's a staple of the Genre. RNG is also a staple of the genre; very few if any MMO's don't have substantial aspects based in RNG, and frankly W* has made most things that rely on RNG available in alternate ways. 
 
There is a HUGE difference between "cash grabs" and incentivizing using the cash shop / paid resources.  You wan't cash grabs, go to a game that microtransacts the living daylights out of you (such as SWTOR). While I wouldn't call it perfect, Carbine has come up with one of if not the most generous F2P systems on the market, and mostly avoids forced micro-transactions. If you are too impatient to farm your runes / reroll costs / etc. you can now pay to speed the process up. Or you can do it the new fashioed way; do 1/100th of what would constitute a grind 5 years ago and get the full rewards without even having to pay for the game. 
 
I'm not in the "I want it to be easy" camp, and haven't actually seen anyone that was.  It'd be nice if people, including but not limited to Ufa, would read what people actually say and respond to THAT.  Making snide remarks, l2p one liners, talking about bads, is nothing but insulting, toxic trash.  Have the decency to actually read posts and not overlay your own ideas onto what's said.  Thank you Naz for doing so even if we disagree, but most others don't.
 
Ever since F2P I've seen quite a few players demand or suggest dropping actual difficulty levels. I can't say one way or the other with Ufa, I personally suspect he does read the posts, but similar to me gets frustrated at what he sees as unwillingness to invest time and effort into a game in a genre that is literally built on progression through heavy time and effort investments. Obviously everyone is entitled to feel however they like about what MMO's should be versus what they are or have been; but If I wan't instant gratification I play an adventure game or hack-and-slash; not an RPG, and DEFFINATLY not an MMO-RPG. 
 
Of course, I could absolutely be mistaken and Ufa could just be a run of the mill troll, that's not for me to say though. I long ago stopped taking internet dicsussions personally, and am just as happy to discuss topics that I may disagree with people on. If everyone agreed on everything the world would be a terribly boring place. 
 
 
If anyone is going to do that, go back to WoW.  That kind of toxic community is a big part of why I left that cesspool years ago.  Don't bring it here.
 
To be fair, even with the occasional troll W*'s community is one of the best I've ever been a part of. I don't think one or two more trolls will change that anytime soon :)
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Getting pure majors is RNG though.
 
That's my only issue.  Not grinding, not having to take a long time to get it, but the major way I can get is as a pugger/ non guild raider, is 100% RNG (or buying it for 7 plat a rune on the CX).
 
If I see one more person put words in my mouth saying I'm asking to be handed free runes in a week... Yeah okay.
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Getting pure majors is RNG though.
 
That's my only issue.  Not grinding, not having to take a long time to get it, but the major way I can get is as a pugger/ non guild raider, is 100% RNG (or buying it for 7 plat a rune on the CX).
 
If I see one more person put words in my mouth saying I'm asking to be handed free runes in a week... Yeah okay.
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Honest question. What's wrong with pure majors being entirely RNG if they actually were (they, as you pointed out are not as you can purchase them from other players, meaning you can grid gold and buy them with no RNG)?
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21p is not reasonable especially on top of the reroll cost if you don't or won't use Service Tokens and the new more expensive add-a-slot cost.
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Maybe look at this from a business angle and try to remove your emotion from the situation...
 
If MMOs allowed you to get all of this stuff easy, then they wouldn't last long. Stay with me. There is a good chunk of people complaining that there isn't much to do once you hit 50, then combine that with the crowd that "wants to get the best gear faster than it is currently possible" and what do you get? More people complaining that they have done everything and get bored and quit for something else. Now that the game is free to play, there isn't that pull/draw/(not finding the right word) to the game (because you aren't forced to pay $15 a month) so it is easier for people to just drop the game and go do other things.
 
Now that there is a good chunk of people not paying for the game, they need to prolong the content as long as possible to HOPEFULLY get those freebots to buy something from the store. Whether that be boosts or cosmetics. 
			
				
	Edited November 13, 2015 by h4vix	
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If the drop chance from salvaging were anything close to resembling reasonable then there probably wouldn't be much of an issue.  Raids don't drop enough to cover the gear dropped forcing people to yank what they have which means more Service Token sales (ka-ching!) or pauper themselves.  Yes, 21p (7p x 3) is a hardship for people that don't live in the game or dare do other things than raid.
 
21p is not reasonable especially on top of the reroll cost if you don't or won't use Service Tokens and the new more expensive add-a-slot cost.
 
Side question: Is the raiding population that high that attempts to monetize us is seen as profitable despite the (IMO significant) customer dissatisfaction it has caused?
 
People will probably deal with with upgrades.  It's the side-grades you should be worrying about.  Either people are going to pass on the 116's or not bother with the tokens.
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Maybe look at this from a business angle and try to remove your emotion from the situation...
 
If MMOs allowed you to get all of this stuff easy, then they wouldn't last long. Stay with me. There is a good chunk of people complaining that there isn't much to do once you hit 50, then combine that with the crowd that "wants to get the best gear faster than it is currently possible" and what do you get? More people complaining that they have done everything and get bored and quit for something else. Now that the game is free to play, there isn't that pull/draw/(not finding the right word) to the game (because you aren't forced to pay $15 a month) so it is easier for people to just drop the game and go do other things.
 
Now that there is a good chunk of people not paying for the game, they need to prolong the content as long as possible to HOPEFULLY get those freebots to buy something from the store. Whether that be boosts or cosmetics.
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From a business angle, getting rewards in raids has to be fun. If it isn't, then people aren't going to stick around to buy all that other stuff. The last thing that Carbine needs to tax is gear upgrades in the game.
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I'm a premium player and I've been saving up my omnibits. Bought the 300 pack of service tokens to rerune my DS gear after raid the other night.
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Yeah, I don't understand the omnibit cap for premium players. For the freetoplay crowd, I think there needs to be a cap on earned omnibits because if they are relying on that, the cap could entice them to go premium (or even just buy them). But... for the last part of the previous sentence, the premium players would need to NOT have a cap for that to entice them.
 
This is not related to the OP, so PLEASE do not rabbit trail here (even though I am)... this is just one of several things that they can improve on to motivate people to dedicate $15/mth (or less for multi-month pacakges) and sub to the game to get the perks.
			
				
	Edited November 13, 2015 by h4vix	
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I'm a premium player and I've been saving up my omnibits. Bought the 300 pack of service tokens to rerune my DS gear after raid the other night.
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You don't get it.
 
It is not the GO TO means, it is an ALTERNATIVE means. Be grateful that you have options now versus what it was before the rune changes. 
 
 
Before the changes... we had only one reroll chance. If it was bad, you were stuck with it.
 
Before the changes... you could not remove a rune and save it, you had to destroy, period.
 
Before the changes... you had to pay to destroy a rune.
 
Before the changes... EACH piece of new raid gear was like a 20-30p bill, to buy the runes you want for each piece if you didn't have the mats. and even then the mats were quite expensive at times.
 
So... I see you have been around a while. Just stop complaining and again, be grateful we have the ability to make these changes.
			
				
	Edited November 13, 2015 by h4vix	
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From a business angle, getting rewards in raids has to be fun. If it isn't, then people aren't going to stick around to buy all that other stuff. The last thing that Carbine needs to tax is gear upgrades in the game.
 
... It's about finding the right balance between "grind your life away to be able to use your gear" and "lol- here's this system that is completely irrelevant because you can trip over the mats as you leave your housing plot". What they are shooing for is "in order to be able to use your gear, make sure you do a few of the other fun things in the game in between your scheduled raids".
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Not when then that price is ridiculous enough to force me into Service Tokens or sharding the rune.  Today you can attempt to sell those runes for more than the yank cost, by the time I'm doing it?  I'd be lucky to get 50g for them.
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You don't get it.
 
It is not the GO TO means, it is an ALTERNATIVE means. Be grateful that you have options now versus what it was before the rune changes. 
 
 
Before the changes... we had only one reroll chance. If it was bad, you were stuck with it.
 
Before the changes... you could not remove a rune and save it, you had to destroy, period.
 
Before the changes... you had to pay to destroy a rune.
 
Before the changes... EACH piece of new raid gear was like a 20-30p bill, to buy the runes you want for each piece if you didn't have the mats. and even then the mats were quite expensive at times.
 
So... I see you have been around a while. Just stop complaining and again, be grateful we have the ability to make these changes.
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Oh yeah, "options". An option to go broke runing my gear or spend real money/omnibits. I sure do love those options!
 
Before the changes - most, if not all, rune colors were workable for a good rune build. Now if it's not air/water/life, it's pretty much worthless to me. Before the changes - runes were pretty easy to come by, even exceptional runes, as you could get those via contracts. Before the changes - well I guess I'll give you that one, but the payment was like 6g, compared to now spending 10+p on a single piece of gear. Before the changes - this is so wrong, I'll just leave it at that.
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Before F2P I had 4 toons and 6 specs completely runed. Fully optimized for DS raiding. Every set and exceptional that was required in the old system.
 
Since F2P launch, I have fully runed my main and his offspec. I have managed to rune one alt with 5 out of 7 pieces optimized. 
 
We're complaining because CRB has treated vets like shit during this transition. I'm grinding like crazy and have barely equipped half of my sets to be as strong as they were before F2P launched. A month of F2P and I don't feel like I'm making any meaningful progression on my other characters.
 
Before F2P we had an active alt DS community. That completely died with the launch, and we're trying to keep hope alive. So many players are struggling just to get their mains properly sorted.
 
To be clear I'm not talking about chase sets -- I'm happy to have a reason to play my alts and work towards class sets. I'm talking about acquiring runes appropriate for my gear and not being a burden on my fellow raiders.	
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People went broke runing their gear before F2P, so your argument is invalid.
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			I imagine that you COULD have ran out of money before F2P if your way of dealing with sub-optimal rune slots was to throw the gear into the thrash and buy another off the AH. But otherwise, I agree with Naunet. I don't see how you could have ran out of money like that. Not saying it's impossible, but I just don't see it.	
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You don't get it.
 
It is not the GO TO means, it is an ALTERNATIVE means. Be grateful that you have options now versus what it was before the rune changes. 
 
 
Before the changes... we had only one reroll chance. If it was bad, you were stuck with it.
 
Before the changes... you could not remove a rune and save it, you had to destroy, period.
 
Before the changes... you had to pay to destroy a rune.
 
Before the changes... EACH piece of new raid gear was like a 20-30p bill, to buy the runes you want for each piece if you didn't have the mats. and even then the mats were quite expensive at times.
 
So... I see you have been around a while. Just stop complaining and again, be grateful we have the ability to make these changes.
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Honest question. What's wrong with pure majors being entirely RNG if they actually were (they, as you pointed out are not as you can purchase them from other players, meaning you can grid gold and buy them with no RNG)?
 
Why do people hate luck and chance so much? What is so terrible about RNG? Seriously? People act like RNG kidnapped their daughter and they had to fight through the eastern european underground in Paris to rescue her with a very particular set of skills....
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