119241-ability-points-too-expensive

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So i just wanted to figure out the general opinion on ability points from the elder gem vendor. I was wondering why does it take 3 weeks to get 1 ability point for PVE while it only takes 1 day to get the PVP ones.  If you arent counting random drops, it will take 3 Credd ( 9 weeks) to get to max ability points . this is assuming that you are doing the repgrinds that give ability points , did your pvp grind and path grind. 
 
Can we maybe get a change to this? Maybe reduce the price to 280 or 300 ? or maybe if the price change is too much to ask for , maybe make them not soulbound or at least make them account bound so its easier to gear up when you have multiple max level characters .	
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So i just wanted to figure out the general opinion on ability points from the elder gem vendor. I was wondering why does it take 3 weeks to get 1 ability point for PVE while it only takes 1 day to get the PVP ones.  If you arent counting random drops, it will take 3 Credd ( 9 weeks) to get to max ability points . this is assuming that you are doing the repgrinds that give ability points , did your pvp grind and path grind. 
 
Can we maybe get a change to this? Maybe reduce the price to 280 or 300 ? or maybe if the price change is too much to ask for , maybe make them not soulbound or at least make them account bound so its easier to gear up when you have multiple max level characters .
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So i just wanted to figure out the general opinion on ability points from the elder gem vendor. I was wondering why does it take 3 weeks to get 1 ability point for PVE while it only takes 1 day to get the PVP ones.  If you arent counting random drops, it will take 3 Credd ( 9 weeks) to get to max ability points . this is assuming that you are doing the repgrinds that give ability points , did your pvp grind and path grind. 
 
Can we maybe get a change to this? Maybe reduce the price to 280 or 300 ? or maybe if the price change is too much to ask for , maybe make them not soulbound or at least make them account bound so its easier to gear up when you have multiple max level characters .
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When a drop rate is 1 in ten million, increasing it to 2 in ten million is simultaneously a 100%(!!) increase and irrelevant to the player.
 
I don't mind the hoops I had to go through to get the Northern Wilds, Crimson Wastes, and PvP unlocks on my main... once... but every time I think about having to repeat that on each and every alt separately, I log out and find something else to do instead of leveling those alts. I like the sense of investment once. But asking me to do it 11 more times? Its soul crushing.	
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When a drop rate is 1 in ten million, increasing it to 2 in ten million is simultaneously a 100%(!!) increase and irrelevant to the player.
 
I don't mind the hoops I had to go through to get the Northern Wilds, Crimson Wastes, and PvP unlocks on my main... once... but every time I think about having to repeat that on each and every alt separately, I log out and find something else to do instead of leveling those alts. I like the sense of investment once. But asking me to do it 11 more times? Its soul crushing.
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The devs don't think its insane because vet dungeon critters and raid critters basically have a X500 value slapped on the front of their loot roll.
 
The "be a raider or *cupcake*-off-and-die" mentality is woven DEEP into this game's systems.	
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I farm lvl 50 mobs and have at least one AMP point drop per week so I can't say that the rate them is too low. Ability point on the other hand is a different story in that I've only ever had two drop. I won't complain though as there are many people raiding who haven't maxed out either AMP or Abilities. They're not required but are nice to have...they are a reward for putting in the effort. 
 
You can get them in dungeons, through dailies, buy them on CX, and buy them through EG vendor. Or put a lot of time into farming mobs. Thing is, you don't really need them. It's similar to the elder rune sets, not needed but nice to work toward.	
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I farm lvl 50 mobs and have at least one AMP point drop per week so I can't say that the rate them is too low. Ability point on the other hand is a different story in that I've only ever had two drop. I won't complain though as there are many people raiding who haven't maxed out either AMP or Abilities. They're not required but are nice to have...they are a reward for putting in the effort.
 
You can get them in dungeons, through dailies, buy them on CX, and buy them through EG vendor. Or put a lot of time into farming mobs. Thing is, you don't really need them. It's similar to the elder rune sets, not needed but nice to work toward.
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When you tell someone "Thing is, you don't really need them." in a progression game, you've just told them to quit right now.
 
I don't NEED anything from Wildstar, but the reason most people play at all is to create the most powerful/effective character they can.
 
So yeah, I do "need them" as much or more as anything on Nexus. They are part of the progression process, and Carbine has way overplayed their hand using them as a spur to drive the use of repetitive content.	
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I like it the way it is.  Allows you to progress your toon at 50.
 
You don't need it in the sense that the endgame is dooable without having full ability points- but it does get easier if you have them.
 
I know lots of other people hate it and that's cool- just putting my voice in :)	
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			I like it too - for one character. A month of dailies for an AMP point? Ok, a little tedious some days, but its a goal I can move towards and a reason to log in and say 'hi'. A month of dailies for Every. Single. Character? ...Yeah, I have a stack of PlayStation games I'm way more interested in working through than getting on any more of a first name basis with every mob in the Crimson Badlands.	
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			they did say there will be ways to get all points through progression alone in drop 4 and relying on drops/Elder gems will just be to speed it up.Still think it's kind of BS though, doing like 15 different grinds per character is no better than the current setup and it does absolutely nothing to help now.I've done the full rainbow of rep grinds and gold runs on 3 characters and have never even seen a single amp power drop.My guild seems to be about 200 strong right now and most of them are in the same boat, never seen a world drop amp or ability point ever after hundreds of hours of play timeYet the one guy that managed to get 2 AMPs and an Ability point during a single northern wastes daily run and seems to always get one or two a week without even trying a little bit will argue they're easy to get all day long against the people that grind out 50 eldan fusions a day and never seen one. Luck shouldn't be a more important statistic than skill and dedication.Even if they were on the renown vendor for like 100k+ a piece It would be a goal you could obtain in a timely manner without being forced to do the same rep grinds on every single character. All it would take is some dedication to the goal 	
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Amp and ability point rarity can be added to the pile of dumb ideas by Carbine that discourages players from playing.
 
I don't understand why they don't want us rolling alts or why they don't want new players (which they desperately need) on equal footing as the rest of us... but hey its their world, we just live in it
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The devs don't think its insane because vet dungeon critters and raid critters basically have a X500 value slapped on the front of their loot roll.
 
The "be a raider or *cupcake*-off-and-die" mentality is woven DEEP into this game's systems.
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Amp and ability point rarity can be added to the pile of dumb ideas by Carbine that discourages players from playing.
 
I don't understand why they don't want us rolling alts or why they don't want new players (which they desperately need) on equal footing as the rest of us... but hey its their world, we just live in it
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			Not being able to tier up another ability isn't going to make you the worst healer/tank/dps alive, nor will they make you the best... that's something gear/experience will do. They could use 2 more ability points/amps available without a month of work rep grinding for 2-3 hours but I'm going to guess people complaining about the drop rate/availability are scared of doing gold runs and/or don't want to rep grind (they should probably increase daily rep) considering that month isn't so bad really to max an alt you like.	
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food for thought:
 
If you had all AMP and Ability points maxed out right now, what would you focus on next?	
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I have no problem with the rarity of Amp and Ability points.  I agree the Ability point from the EG vendor is a bit too expensive, but that's it.
 
Alternate advancement (which is what these points are), should last long to give people a goal to work towards over an extended period of time. 
 
It's like this in every game when a developer tries to add means of progression after level cap; people whine like babies because they are level capped, but not really power capped, and that's not fair somehow. 
 
Stop with the "must have now" mentality BS, please.  MMOs don't end, and they need carrots to keep people going.	
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Whats the problem exactly? Cap rep, do gold dungeons and PvP and u never have to look back.
 
I'm capped with both and I only spent 15p for my last AMP	
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food for thought:
 
If you had all AMP and Ability points maxed out right now, what would you focus on next?
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Crafting / housing / PVP / role playing / alts / lore / raiding / exploration....
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food for thought:
 
If you had all AMP and Ability points maxed out right now, what would you focus on next?
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			The system is ok now as it gives different means to get you character to its maximum. Nevertheless I'd be all up for amp and ability points opening at esteemed level reputation for all factions that offer them. That would still leave beloved to be pursued by those who need the gear parts and other things the factions offer. Other thing is the EG price that should be lowered. I'd say 250 for amps and 300 for ability points would be ok. I have one alt and I don't actually have a problem with eg, dungeon, path or pvp way for the amp/ability points. But holy shit that reputation grind for an alt..it's mind numbing to do it again. I feel for those who like to make many characters.	
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Probably work on GA and DS. You know, content, things I actually care about. When I do finally move on to a different game, I won't be looking back wishing I would have spent a few more hundred hours doing dailies on alts.
 
There seem to be 3 major schools of thought on this:
 
1. The 1-2 char guy who doesn't mind rep grinding, can't see what the fuss is about, and thinks everyone is a bunch of entitled crybabies who want everything handed to them.
 
2. The guy who doesn't care about amps/ap points, "brooo you can totes heal/dps whatever man with stock points, why do you guys care".
 
3. People like me, with a lot of toons, who care about being able to play expanded builds and squeezing the last drop out of a class, and can't stand/don't have all day for doing the same set of quests every day on multiple toons for months/years.
 
 
AMPs/AP point grinding is not a personal progression "carrot" that keeps people logging in, it's just a misplaced time sink that is extremely punishing to people that alt. The value to time spent is 100% out of whack here.
 
Edit @olivar, nobody has rushed through GA/DS and gone, oh wait I've cleared the game pretty much, thank god I still have rep to grind for AMPs/AP, or I'd be sitting here bored. Just what?  :rolleyes:
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don't even try it cunning.
You know as well as I that once you're at the end of GA/DS you pretty much have the points due the time it takes.
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			The solution, as I pointed out back in August, is to have amps and ability points account bound, so once you've earned them, you've earned them for all characters	
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			Yes. Amp and abilities being Account and unlock once, use forever on all alts.
			
				
	Edited November 30, 2014 by BusterCasey
	
		Content	
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Amp and ability point rarity can be added to the pile of dumb ideas by Carbine that discourages players from playing.
 
I don't understand why they don't want us rolling alts or why they don't want new players (which they desperately need) on equal footing as the rest of us... but hey its their world, we just live in it
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Yes. Amp and abilities being Account and unlock once, use forever on all alts.
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The solution, as I pointed out back in August, is to have amps and ability points account bound, so once you've earned them, you've earned them for all characters
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			Alts are a choice, and people seem to forget that the whole concept of an MMORPG is based upon player choice, even if almost every game has gone out of its way in the past five years or so to minimize the effects of player choices by letting people have everything on every character.  Just as in every hobby, sport or activity if you want to be really good you have to focus.  I think people (myself included) jump into alts much too early in their game.  Alts are just that, alternates.	
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This game is what, barely 6 months old?  And people are already calling for ease of content stuff that is usually slowly added to the game as it reaches the 1 year+ mark?
 
As Sabina Anatolec said, I think the issue is people jumping into alts too quickly.  I don't expect to have my alts progressed/geared up as well as my main, or to have it done quicker than my main.    	
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I agree, ability and amp points are hugely expensive..and most mmo's do have stuff to grind for, but most of that stuff is better gear, vanity items and the like...not skill points.  I've just leveled my second level 50 and got her maxed out by grinding for beloved reputation..and now I've got more grinding ahead of me for amp points to catch up to others. The raid or cupcake get out mentaility is here, but I'm hoping it's going away over time. 
 
As for Olivar, to the new members please don't pay him much mind. He doesn't usually bring anything to the table, just tells people to go sit in corners and the like. To quote another post in this thread...
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Olivar you are not contributing. Just annoying people in this thread
 
Yes. Amp and abilities being Account and unlock once, use forever on all alts.
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I agree, ability and amp points are hugely expensive..and most mmo's do have stuff to grind for, but most of that stuff is better gear, vanity items and the like...not skill points.  I've just leveled my second level 50 and got her maxed out by grinding for beloved reputation..and now I've got more grinding ahead of me for amp points to catch up to others. The raid or cupcake get out mentaility is here, but I'm hoping it's going away over time. 
 
If anything, we need more alt friendly equipment. BoA would be great to have. BoA dyes, amps, levelling gear..
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As to your first point, if you're not raiding hardcore on alts, does it matter if they are maxed out?  Whether it be gear, abilitiy points, etc.?  As to your last point, account wide gear and dyes would be awesome.
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WoW PvE - endgame gear progression, all skills / talents unlocked
WoW PvP - rating and gear progression, all skills / talents unlocked
Aion - all skills / talents unlocked, endgame gear progression
Warhammer Online - same
Guild wars 2 - no progression
Ffxiv - encourages alts, cross skills earned by playing other classes, endgame gear progression
 
And many others
 
Only carbine thinks its a good idea to lock advantageous skill / talents by RNG, currency. This breaks the min maxers. It breaks the PvP (not that crb cares about PvP)
 
Except for the few white knights that feel the need to comment about everything ever or defend crb regardless, this whole thing is widely regarded as a stupid ass idea.	
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To clarify. You buy the Amp and Ability point once, and it's bound to your account just like the boombox and other cosmetic rewards. You buy them once and once only, so no making alts, grind, send them to alt, make a new alt etc etc.
 
You find that upgrade in a pvp lootbag? gratz, now add it to your account. You bought an upgrade from the CX? Add it to your account.
 
New players still need to dedicate enough time to earn all the upgrades but once it is done, he or she have them. Forever.
 
And hypotethical. Say you got a main with fully maxed reputations and all unlocks but suddenly feel an urge to play something else. But imaging the grind you have in front of you to be on par if you decide to roll a new character. Wouldn't it just be easier starting over on another game?	
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I'd like to offer an alternate spec than what I have on my main- which is tanking. So yea I'd eventually like to raid hardcore on her. xD I've got a long way to go before I'm able to properly help out the guild though. u.u
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As to your first point, if you're not raiding hardcore on alts, does it matter if they are maxed out?  
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			I feel like Carbine could have found something less... dull than ability and AMP points as their post-50 progression. Rift did okay with Planar Attunement - you got some nice buffs as you played, some new abilities, lures, etc, none of them gamebreaking but certain beneficial. But... AMP and ability points? They're just not all that fun. Slot them in and buff a skill slightly, or pick up a new AMP or two. Oh boy. Just like you've done for the past 50 levels! Something with a bit more jazz would have been nice.	
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Yes. It matters. Of course it MATTERS. You don't have to be a raider for progression to be a major (if not THE) reason to play. Being oblivious to the perspective of non-raiders is a major contributor to the forces running this game into the ground. Thanks for highlighting that ignorance.
 
This isn't a "oh, maybe after a year" issue. The games that thrive have learned that characters aren't separate people with independent tolerances for content-stretching BS. There is one PLAYER per ACCOUNT, not one player per character. Account-wide unlocks are one of the ways MMOs have gotten better in the last few years, and while Carbine tries desperately to live in WoW's glory days, that time has passed.
 
Look, if they relented on Datascape, they ARE going to relent on this. The only question is do they do it fast enough to retain would-be altaholics who right now are simply not going to re-sub because of outdated, thoughtless tedium-multipliers like this.
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Yes. It matters. Of course it MATTERS. You don't have to be a raider for progression to be a major (if not THE) reason to play. Being oblivious to the perspective of non-raiders is a major contributor to the forces running this game into the ground. Thanks for showcasing the outlook that just doesn't get it.
 
This isn't a "oh, maybe after a year" issue. The games that thrive have learned that characters aren't separate people with independent tolerances for content-stretching BS. There is one PLAYER per ACCOUNT, not one player per character. Account-wide unlocks are one of the ways MMOs have gotten better in the last few years, and while Carbine tries desperately to live in WoW's glory days, that time has passed.
 
Look, if they relented on Datascape, they ARE going to relent on this. The only question is do they do it fast enough to retain would-be altaholics who right now are simply not going to re-sub because of outdated, thoughtless tedium-multipliers like this.
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There are currently 7 ability points on the Warhound AH.
 
That means there aren't enough ability points to max out 1 character, currently.  Each of those items cost upwards of 65 platinum.
 
If the implications of that aren't obvious enough already, then I would probably just quit posting entirely.
 
Ability points are extremely valuable to hardcore raiders, hardcore pvpers (laugh), and those with a sense of character progression.
 
There aren't enough to go around.	
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Entity is no better...
 	
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Alts are a choice, and people seem to forget that the whole concept of an MMORPG is based upon player choice, even if almost every game has gone out of its way in the past five years or so to minimize the effects of player choices by letting people have everything on every character.  Just as in every hobby, sport or activity if you want to be really good you have to focus.  I think people (myself included) jump into alts much too early in their game.  Alts are just that, alternates.
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I don't mind having a couple of extremely rare upgrades in a MMO, especially if they're tradeable. It gives me something to do when I have nothing much to do. I'm doing some pvp or mindless mass mob slaughtering to make some gold. The most reasonable attitude to have towards these items is "i'll have them eventually" not "I must have them NOW". But I'm very patient, so I can understand that some people just want to be done with their characters, and potentially the game, in after playing it for a couple of months. In the dev's minds, I believe it's supposed to increase player retention or something like that. When they run out of things to do or farm many players just quit the game for good. They're already giving a lot of good stuff requiring very little efforts and time, ability and amp points are really the only long term goal one can have.
 
"It's alt unfriendly". Yeah, just like any other MMO. Don't start an alt before you've maxed out your first character.	
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WoW PvE - endgame gear progression, all skills / talents unlocked
WoW PvP - rating and gear progression, all skills / talents unlocked
Aion - all skills / talents unlocked, endgame gear progression
Warhammer Online - same
Guild wars 2 - no progression
Ffxiv - encourages alts, cross skills earned by playing other classes, endgame gear progression
 
And many others
 
Only carbine thinks its a good idea to lock advantageous skill / talents by RNG, currency. This breaks the min maxers. It breaks the PvP (not that crb cares about PvP)
 
Except for the few white knights that feel the need to comment about everything ever or defend crb regardless, this whole thing is widely regarded as a stupid ass idea.
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FFXIV is possibly the least alt encouraging game alive (there's no value to one since you can switch classes). Also the cross class system is VERY similar to what wildstar is doing, let's say for example you just hit 50 in FFXIV as a Monk, you want to have let's say invigorate for your dps? too bad, you gotta go grind your lancer. 
 
While I agree more grinds aren't great, I have alts and mains with the full amount and some without of ability/amps and honestly I don't value them as something I NEED even for PvP/PvE. Most of the time I felt happy at 43ability points/50 amps even (something easily reached by anyone that puts in a month of game time), and they'll be increasing the availability of these amps/ability points with more content.
 
 
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The people in early beta asked for a hardcore, grinding, unforgiving, long and tedious game. We got a grindy long and somewhat hardcore game. And those players left. We/carbine tried that aproach and whatever carbine is saying in front of the camera, things are not looking good in terms of retainingrate and subscribers.
You hear those suggestions and opinions gearing and progression should be an investment, it should be difficult and months are not a long timeperiod. Same arguments I heard about attunements and epics. It does not work anymore. The western market might want it on the paper but they will not invest that time	
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The devs don't think its insane because vet dungeon critters and raid critters basically have a X500 value slapped on the front of their loot roll.
 
The "be a raider or *cupcake*-off-and-die" mentality is woven DEEP into this game's systems.
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I refuse the idea that only raiders should be entitled to the best gear, raids be the most difficult content (it is only so because the devs constantly fixate on making it the most difficult content, so we end up in a loop of "raiding must be the most difficult content because it has to be!") or raids as the 'endgame of endgame' ("You want the best gear, cupcake? Well, I hope you like raiding!"). It's very dissapointing when you reach level 50 in a game that was known for telling the player to "play how you want" only to slap that away when you reach max level, changing it with a "Haha! Fooled you! Go raid!". 
 
 
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Well, technically you're right, FFXIV is the least alt encouraging game alive as it lets you have all of your alternate classes on the same character.  
 
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Why dont you do the actual content instead of crying over AH prices?All the factions gives you stuff once rep capped. You can get APs from all 4 dungeons. You can get them from PvP and you can buy them with EG.
 
What is the problem? There are plenty of ways to obtain these.	
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I refuse the idea that only raiders should be entitled to the best gear, raids be the most difficult content (it is only so because the devs constantly fixate on making it the most difficult content, so we end up in a loop of "raiding must be the most difficult content because it has to be!") or raids as the 'endgame of endgame' ("You want the best gear, cupcake? Well, I hope you like raiding!").
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If there wasn't the need to grind for these points, I'd probably get bored a lot faster.
 
I'll progress my alt in a serial fashion- once I get my main done, I'll move on to my alt. Unless I get capped early in the week, then I move on to my alt. I like that it gives me something to do.
 
In the meantime, my alt (without any ability points) is easily able to tank any of the vet dungeons. He could probably raid just fine too if I needed to bring him in for some reason.
 
This is the reason I like the current system. I like carrots, I guess :)	
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I honestly have mixed feelings on it, because AMP/Ability points aren't needed but they certainly can make a world of difference in some builds and flexibility.
 
I think that if anything my concern are where the source is coming from a reputation that may become exponentially harder to get rep maxed to obtain it. While there are other sources available, it feels like from my perspective Blighthaven and Malgrave recently have become far harder to get reputation with lack of activity doing the relevant events. The Defile is setup decently where one can continually get reputation on their own and I think perhaps having some retroactive "solo" or small group dailies added to those area may be nice. I suppose rather to put it simple my concern is for new players coming into those reputations when the majority are "done" with them.
 
 
I've also been extremely unlucky I guess that I've not seen a single one as a drop/bag since head start lol	
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The real question you should be asking yourself is what you need all that gear for if you don't intend to raid.
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This means that future content will have to be balanced around the assumption that characters will possess those points.  And when that day comes fresh 50's will be told that they'll need to complete 8-17 simultaneous month-long rep grinds before they're allowed to play with the big kids.  "WHAT?! get your points noob /disband"
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Entitled?  I can assure you that those of us who raid do work for our gear.  The real question you should be asking yourself is what you need all that gear for if you don't intend to raid.  Raiding is, and always has been, a gear treadmill to further enable raiding.  There is absolutely nothing in this game that is hard enough that you need raid gear for except higher tier raiding.
 
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Oh, this argument again, wasn't this debunked in beta?  TL;DR: They will be a barrier to future content.
 
While these points are unnecessary for current content they do make a noticeable difference.  This means that future content will have to be balanced around the assumption that characters will possess those points.  And when that day comes fresh 50's will be told that they'll need to complete 8-17 simultaneous month-long rep grinds before they're allowed to play with the big kids.  "WHAT?! get your points noob /disband"
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Oh, this argument again, wasn't this debunked in beta?  TL;DR: They will be a barrier to future content.
 
While these points are unnecessary for current content they do make a noticeable difference.  This means that future content will have to be balanced around the assumption that characters will possess those points.  And when that day comes fresh 50's will be told that they'll need to complete 8-17 simultaneous month-long rep grinds before they're allowed to play with the big kids.  "WHAT?! get your points noob /disband"
 
If I counted right, you need 10 AMPs and 7 Ability Points.  Some people hate their paths and very, very few people do both PvE and PvP.  Gold Dungeon runs are out of reach of many people.  Since you can make 150 EG/week it takes a bit more than two weeks to buy one AMP and almost three weeks to buy an Ability Point.
 
No way to sugarcoat it, grindcore barriers to content are an incredibly stupid idea.
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Apologies. I forgot the internet has screwed up that word incredibly for a moment. So I will clarify. I was using "entitled" with the "rightfully permited" meaning, not the stupid and wrong meaning of "want things without working" the internet has given it in the recent years. I know raiders work very hard for their rewards. 
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Having full ability / amp points is basically Night / Day in a power difference in PvP.  It's the single MOST gaping imbalance for any competitive play.
 
... but who really cares about PvP in this game anyhow, right guys?	
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I am on the side of points being too expensive. I have seen ONE amp point drop in all my time playing thus far. Combined with the most attainable ones coming from daily reputation grinds (which I hate), makes the game seem downright unappealing sometimes. For me I do not wish to do dailies. Nor did I expect them in a game calling back to classic WoW. I expected the option to grind to my hearts content - not forced to do so.
 
Right now I cannot reasonably get these items before I am able to raid. Nor would I ever be able to gear an alternate character. It simply wouldn't happen for me as I cannot even get one character fully geared. This type of issue has even scared off friends.
 
I love this game. Just that some aspects of it come across in the wrong maner. Dailies and exceptionally rare items preventing me from progressing due to something other than skill is not ideal in my book.	
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Having full ability / amp points is basically Night / Day in a power difference in PvP.  It's the single MOST gaping imbalance for any competitive play.
 
... but who really cares about PvP in this game anyhow, right guys?
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Having full ability / amp points is basically Night / Day in a power difference in PvP.  It's the single MOST gaping imbalance for any competitive play.
 
... but who really cares about PvP in this game anyhow, right guys?
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			The exteme amount of time it takes to get all your AMP/Ability points just from the EG vendor is precisely why the drop rate was upped and they were added to pvp/rep/gold dungeons. They took something insanely hard to get and made it far more accessible without cutting down the difficulty. PERFECT SOLUTION. The only reason to continue whining about it is the fact that you can't log in and be the best geared toon in the game immediately... boo-frickin-hoo!	
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The exteme amount of time it takes to get all your AMP/Ability points just from the EG vendor is precisely why the drop rate was upped and they were added to pvp/rep/gold dungeons. They took something insanely hard to get and made it far more accessible without cutting down the difficulty. PERFECT SOLUTION. The only reason to continue whining about it is the fact that you can't log in and be the best geared toon in the game immediately... boo-frickin-hoo!
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Give amps/ability points nao, NAO!
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hehe, but really that's what I honestly saw beyond the sarcasm up above. They're already giving you the ability to get even more in every way possible with drop 4 from what I understand, it's about time to calm your tits and realize you probably play too many alts especially if all 6 of those are in the same GA guild.
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			I'm not saying you play the game too much, I'm just saying you may be playing a bit too many alts for your own good. I set a personal rule that I only focus on 2 alts even in other MMOs, more so my 2 cents. :P The more you repeat a raid/grind the more repetitive everything feels.But anyways, account wide amps/ability points I think would be a bad thing overall. Increasing the rate of rep gained by double or triple and adding availability in more areas but not completely eliminating the need to run gold dungeons for 1-2amps/ability points would be my preference at least.SC/STL/KV gold are fairly easy to obtain though, my guild-mates I run with end up breaking the bosses mechanics entirely almost at the speed we kill bosses now and if anyone really puts effort into runing their gear they could at least get somewhat similar results with an 1100~ ap weapon.	
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I'm not saying you play the game too much, I'm just saying you may be playing a bit too many alts for your own good. I set a personal rule that I only focus on 2 alts even in other MMOs, more so my 2 cents. :P The more you repeat a raid/grind the more repetitive everything feels.
 
But anyways, account wide amps/ability points I think would be a bad thing overall. Increasing the rate of rep gained by double or triple and adding availability in more areas but not completely eliminating the need to run gold dungeons for 1-2amps/ability points would be my preference at least.
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While I do think it's a good thing if you want to be in the top 5% of the playerbase to have one character of each class to understand how this class work (been there, done that), shelving such educational alts seems to be a reasonable approach since the devs can't tailor content for people playing 172 characters. I'm pretty sure there are some possible improvements but making the drop rates higher wouldn't be a good idea, it would kinda kill trade, which badly needs to be revived, and it would make things too easy for the majority of the players which is happy with a couple of characters.
 
An account reputation boost unlock would be a nice thing. Like 25-30% increased reputation gains once you reach 32k on one guy. It would make unlocking all the nice stuff on an alt a whopping 15 days "grind" or so. If we dare calling playing a character for 15-20 days to get it maxed out a grind. If we want main characters having some sort of progression alts have to be treated as long-term projects not stuff you work on every day 2x or x3. Of course you're going to experience some burnout. I'm not trying to tell anyne how they should play the game, I'm just saying that people playing 50 characters aren't alone to play the game and that yes, there are people with only one character, and no, having a lvl 50 loot bag with all the endgame stuff you'll ever need isn't fun or engaging in any way in a MMO.	
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Entitled?  I can assure you that those of us who raid do work for our gear.  The real question you should be asking yourself is what you need all that gear for if you don't intend to raid.  Raiding is, and always has been, a gear treadmill to further enable raiding.  There is absolutely nothing in this game that is hard enough that you need raid gear for except higher tier raiding.
 
This would be akin to you saying "I want to buy football gear and wear it everywhere but I don't want to ever play football."  I mean, sure, technically you can do so, but it's still absurd.  I mean, you'll know (or be trained by people who don't want you to hurt yourself or them) when it's appropriate in life to wear protective gear.  You'll know when you need to buy an expensive tool (e.g. a concrete mixer) as opposed to a cheap one (a wheelbarrow) that suits your needs.
 
If you've got some notion that your dailies would be faster, you'd probably be surprised to find that they really aren't.  I ran my dailies in crafted blues with no runes on them.  I run them with GA gear and they go a smidgeon faster.  Another guy I see out there who runs his the same time I run mine has mostly datascape gear and he doesn't pull out ahead of me by much.  Why?  Lots of those quests are "click this thing on the ground and wait for a progress bar to fill" and that takes the same amount of time no matter what your gear is.  A lot of time is sucked up in running from point A to B.  You'd think that holdouts might be a bottleneck, but I rarely run into a time when I have to do them alone, and that seems to be true at all hours of the day.  Adventures are filled with similar time sucks that really don't improve all that much with DPS.
 
If what you're hoping is that dungeon running will be easier, well it sure is, but I've run those in just crafted blues and blue adventure drops too and did fine (most of us did).  Coordination, good rotations, and communication will get you much further than the gear does.  The only thing that, in the current state of the game, your dream of "epics for everyone" would accomplish is nerfing the content so that people could be more easily carried through the only stuff in Wildstar that actually is hard and meant to be.  Dungeons are meant to be places where people can hone the skills they have previously not been required to, such as interrupt rotations, situational awareness, etc.  They're challenging because raiding in this game carries with it a weight of some serious personal responsibility to the rest of your guys.  You don't want to be the guy who never figured out how to work with an interrupt order or stay out of red and get your teammates killed repeatedly until you do.  Hiding players' weaknesses under a thick layer of gear they don't really need isn't helping them or anyone else they play with.
 
Finally, there have to be motivating forces to get people to group up and play together, and gear is usually a prime motivator.  Early MMOs never had much of a problem with massive numbers of players essentially trying to solo the games, but that is no longer the state of the market.  While I'd love for there to be solo dungeons that are difficult and rewarding, I would also expect such content to have a lower tier of rewards than content that doesn't just challenge me to be individually good but also challenges me to mesh well with my group or raid.
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Full ability points and amps open up skill combinations that you simply can't do unless you're capped.
 
No matter how you tell people that they don't 'need' these upgrades to participate, people will naturally feel that their characters are incomplete on a performance level because of this. 
 
More importantly, the question every game should ask when putting character advancement like this in game; "Is it fun?"
 
Grinding out multiple reps for a month, getting your face beat in for a weekend of pvp, and having to either gold dungeons or farm plat and hope for a lucky drop.... I can fairly certainly say that no, it is not fun. 
 
Like has been mentioned, the matter of alts... its definitely not fun at all.	
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			Why are we still talking about this?  They'll be available with Renown of all things in Drop 4, so start saving now and you'll have 200k by the time the patch hits.	
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Why are we still talking about this?  They'll be available with Renown of all things in Drop 4, so start saving now and you'll have 200k by the time the patch hits.
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food for thought:
 
If you had all AMP and Ability points maxed out right now, what would you focus on next?
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Did they mention if they were one-time only items like the ones available through the various rep vendors or are they multi-use ones like you get off the EG vendor?  If the latter, it would be an awesome motivator for running group content.
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Yes, everyone here is upset that we aren't getting DS gear and full points in a gift bag instantly after hitting 50..... Nobody here plays alts, everyone here has no problem golding all the dungeons/grinding rep for hours a day/grinding 13k prestige in crappy PvP matches that only pop for a little bit in prime time. We've all gotten lots of world drops. ....right?
 
Perfect solution indeed, close up the thread fellas, this guy nailed it!
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I have 3 toons at 50. It takes me a total of one hour to finish all my dailies on each toon if I choose to do so. This whole idea of giving your alts everything you've worked for on your main is pure laziness. "Now I'm a warrior! Now I'm an Esper! Now I'm a Medic. I didn't put any work into any of these classes!" It's not difficult to keep up on multpile toons, but Crybaby Nation has gotta be spoon fed its progress...
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Ok, aside from thinking this is a terrible idea, and that you, personally have taken on way too much to maintain, I'll try adding a bit of a suggestion:
 
The only thing I think needs to be changed (mostly for alts but also for those slow to level) is the addition of 1 or 2 soloable quests for R12 and Blighthaven. I still think you should have to put the time and effort into building a top echelon character and not just be handed things because you did it on another toon.	
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The only thing I think needs to be changed (mostly for alts but also for those slow to level) is the addition of 1 or 2 soloable quests for R12 and Blighthaven.
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Blighthaven's tree event is also something you can do by yourself, the cheesy way, which is actually the only way anyone ever does it. Eloyna can be solo'd by the right classes with the right builds, but burning through her 1 mil health takes a bit of time.
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			Yes, Elyona is a daily.	
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			A daily... is it a quest you pick up somewhere? Granted I only just killed her for the first time a couple days ago on a quest, but I thought that was just a story quest.	
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A daily... is it a quest you pick up somewhere? Granted I only just killed her for the first time a couple days ago on a quest, but I thought that was just a story quest.
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