147110-cost-of-removing-runes

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This is about removing runes from an old piece of gear, not destroying runes so you can slot new ones.
 
There seems to be two completely different pricing structures. I've just looked at some gear/runes across my characters, and this is what I found. If anyone has any extra info, please let me know!
 
Removing Runes for Gold is gear-based, and relates to the quality and ilvl:
 
Legendary Gear (116): 6p 76g 92s
Legendary Gear (100): 4p 99g 29s
Legendary Gear (96): 4p 54g 68s
Epic gear (100): 4p 24g 41s
Epic gear (90): 3p 30g 60s
Epic gear (88): 3p 12g 39s
Epic gear (80): 2p 42g 82s
Epic gear (78): 2p 26g 41s
 
Removing Runes for Service tokens is rune-based:
 
Legendary (Orange):  60 Service tokens (Only checked Pure Class Focus)
Epic (Purple): 45 Service tokens (Certainly for High, Superb, Pure and Divine)
Rare (Blue): 20 Service tokens (Certainly for High, Superb and Pure)
Common (Green) : 5 Service tokens (checked Basic, which is a level 5 rune, up to a lvl 80 Fusion rune)
 
 
This seems a little random, but I guess it gives you two options for removing a rune depending on the combo. E.g. To takes the Flurry Fusion from my chest would cost either nearly 7 plat or only 5 service tokens! However, given the costs involved, the sensible option seems generally to just destroy the things, which is possibly reasonable as that was always how it used to work. (and even then, destrying a rune cost money!)
 
Do you reckon there should be a single scale?	
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			Nevermind the scale.. The cost needs to be tuned down! Outside of pure major set/class runes and above there's literally no reason to not just destroy the rune and craft a new one.	
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Whoever does econ over at Carbine is either controlled by suits who want our money, or just rather bad.I destroy runes, apart from class sets which I give Carbino all my sweet $$$$$$ because the plat cost is
ridiculous and buying CREDD would be more expensive than using Service Tokens.
 
Just like dyes, it seems like we will have to wait 1+ year before we get some pricing models that feels right.	
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			The gold cost to remove runes may as well have not even been put in, because it's so absurdly expensive no one with any sense will ever use it. An hour+ of chain grinding Infestation to pull a SINGLE RUNE?! U wot mate? The service token cost for higher level runes is just as bad, if not worse.	
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			you shouldnt be extracting alll of your runes anyway... there is little reason to unless its an exceptional and then if u went and got a higher tier of gear then u should be getting the exceptional for that tier instead of the previous ;P	
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you shouldnt be extracting alll of your runes anyway... there is little reason to unless its an exceptional and then if u went and got a higher tier of gear then u should be getting the exceptional for that tier instead of the previous ;P
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Whoever does econ over at Carbine is either controlled by suits who want our money, or just rather bad.
 
I destroy runes, apart from class sets which I give Carbino all my sweet $$$$$$ because the plat cost is
ridiculous and buying CREDD would be more expensive than using Service Tokens.
 
Just like dyes, it seems like we will have to wait 1+ year before we get some pricing models that feels right.
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Just wait until you can use them to reset your Raid lockouts, so you can run the same Raid multiple times a week. You think the pressure is on now?
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The exact words spoken at DC Universe, by the same kind of player.
 
Guess what, Jeff? Game is still going strong.
 
Just sayin' ...
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This would kill the game, at least the raiding part.
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That was my entire point.
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I don't know much about what kind of game DC Universe is. Surprise me that people would stand for this. The day you can reset a raid lockout is the day I'm definitely done with this game. Extend, maybe. But not reset.
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When DC Universe first implemented Service Tokens, the community reacted the same way. Of course, there are some major differences in models, but ultimately the community came to realize they were here to stay, so they shifted from complaining about them to using craptons of them.
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Just curious as to why it would bother you? You're probably the friendliest, most chill "hardcore" I've ever known. Why would being able to reset the same raid for multiple runs bother you to the point you'd walk?
 
I mean, you'd get another shot at gear, currency and all the other drops more than once a week. How is that a bad thing?	
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If that's the New World Order then I am so done with active content.
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Just curious as to why it would bother you? You're probably the friendliest, most chill "hardcore" I've ever known. Why would being able to reset the same raid for multiple runs bother you to the point you'd walk?
 
I mean, you'd get another shot at gear, currency and all the other drops more than once a week. How is that a bad thing?
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It's precicely because I'm not "hardcore" that this would bother me. At the end of the day, while I do enjoy running multiple raids per week, I would not like feeling compelled to do them, which is what a lockout reset would do. The hardcore guilds would push this to the max, and other, more casual guilds, would get left way behind.
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			I tend to just destroy them instead of trying to save them- it hurts for the really expensive runes...but I think the real way to avoid the pain is to just make sure the gear you are putting runes on is worth the investment, and make sure you have the right runes the first time. (which is why a lack of comprehensive guides about runes bothers me more than anything else about them currently.)	
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You could stand to be a little less smug about the really disgusting business practices in the game industry, Tex. >_< I know you're just explaining their motivation, but it's still irritating.
 
I won't bite. Haven't bought a single service token and I never will. I do not play that power game with my real money. If Carbine continues to make it increasingly painful to keep my gear up to date, then I will simply jet.	
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I actually wouldn't see a problem with that myself to be honest. Different guilds go at different pacing and so I'd imagine that if a guild felt they wanted to REALLY plow through and spend X amount of time doing raids they'd be free to just as guilds would have the option to continue with the current schedules.
 
EDIT: oh dear...silly rat pressed the post button before i finished lol
 
Anyway it seems apparent they're trying to work in service tokens being valuable and based on their view they want to try to make money off that. It's unfortunate that it creeks and in some degree impedes on some players enjoyment of the process. However I would say that in this sense the best practice may be to think about the runes now as investments and ask if you feel confident putting pricey runes into the gear you've acquired.
 
It's a difficult and loaded question to ask oneself really and I don't envy those in the upper tiers who have to go through the process.
			
				
	Edited November 16, 2015 by Typrop	
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There are guides out there, you just have to look :)
 
http://www.mistakesweremade.fail/free-2-play-rune-guide/
 
 
But yes, the did add more complexity to the runes. However, these changes were on the PTR for a while and many people got to test them out. In fact, the reason the guide above was done as early on as it was is because Fluffy spent a lot of time on the PTR.
 
I think a main thing is we didn't know what the best combination per class is, but that is something that is still being figured out. I honestly thing there should be a Glory Boost weekend to help alleviate some of the pressure on runes (and stop the complaining). I get there are new PVP things to do, and they want to help the PVP crowd, but the PVE crowd needs some lovin' too.
 
Now, not everyone is going to spend time on the PTR, I know I didn't and I had to rely on the people who put in the time to figure out my runes. I didn't complain because I did this to myself, I could have spent time on the PTR and learned both my class and rune changes, but I chose not to, and I can only blame myself.
 
I actually just finally runed my DS gear the way it should be, minus the class sets which I should get soonish (after the more dedicated raid members get theirs). The only reason I say that is I took a break after my son was born and I didn't want to sap gear if it was unknown if I was going to be available long term. Now that I have some of that stuff sorted out IRL, I am back in the game.	
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Heh, not to sound like an ass, but doesn't this already happen under the current system? I mean, the hardest of the hardcore guilds get through the content faster, get the raids on farm faster and then attract like-minded hardcores who want that level of grouping?
 
Only difference is the speed at which the hardest of the hardcores would be able to poach from less-hardcore guilds - which would happen in time, regardless.
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			Allowing multiple lockouts at the cost of services tokens is 100% P2W ... a model they don't intend to use...time will tell.If it does happen I'll be done with it, it's a crap practice.  People running 3 a week with alts is acceptable...they have to invest the time.  Paying to do the same content over and over is not the same at all.Cost of removing runes is a joke too, completely pointless and only worth doing for class sets.I don't understand the logic at all....people work their balls off to get a piece of gear - here's your reward, it's *cupcaked* until you can afford to spend 30p runing it.....amazing!The runes were supposed to be "customisations" as it is they make or break you.
			
				
	Edited November 16, 2015 by Charge	
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Allowing multiple lockouts at the cost of services tokens is 100% P2W ... a model they don't intend to use...time will tell.
 
If it does happen I'll be done with it, it's a crap practice.  People running 3 a week with alts is acceptable...they have to invest the time.  Paying to do the same content over and over is not the same at all.
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Nah, it isn't about poaching. It's about how fast the content is consumed. Have you noticed how remarkably patient the hardcore folks have been about wanting a new raid tier. I mean, they are asking for it, but nothing like what I saw back in wow. And this is a year and a half with Carbine only adding one new boss in a box.
 
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I don't follow how it's not a time investment if you could run the same character through the same raids? I mean, the first time you do a raid in a week doesn't go any faster than running it on an Alt, does it?
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I don't follow how it's not a time investment if you could run the same character through the same raids? I mean, the first time you do a raid in a week doesn't go any faster than running it on an Alt, does it?
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FWIW, I personally haven't felt much sting with service tokens. Between plat and ominbits, I've been able to pay for everything in game on my sub without any problems.
 
I know that isn't the experience for everyone, and my wife informed me today that she bought ncoin to get a new dye. But then, that's totally legit, in my book. All of her gear maintenance has been handled through stuff she's done in game.	
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I goes WAY faster with your mains until you've invested the effort into your alt, which takes quite a bit of time to do. Especially with the new rune system.
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There are guides out there, you just have to look :)
 
http://www.mistakesweremade.fail/free-2-play-rune-guide/
 
 
But yes, the did add more complexity to the runes. However, these changes were on the PTR for a while and many people got to test them out. In fact, the reason the guide above was done as early on as it was is because Fluffy spent a lot of time on the PTR.
 
I think a main thing is we didn't know what the best combination per class is, but that is something that is still being figured out. I honestly thing there should be a Glory Boost weekend to help alleviate some of the pressure on runes (and stop the complaining). I get there are new PVP things to do, and they want to help the PVP crowd, but the PVE crowd needs some lovin' too.
 
Now, not everyone is going to spend time on the PTR, I know I didn't and I had to rely on the people who put in the time to figure out my runes. I didn't complain because I did this to myself, I could have spent time on the PTR and learned both my class and rune changes, but I chose not to, and I can only blame myself.
 
I actually just finally runed my DS gear the way it should be, minus the class sets which I should get soonish (after the more dedicated raid members get theirs). The only reason I say that is I took a break after my son was born and I didn't want to sap gear if it was unknown if I was going to be available long term. Now that I have some of that stuff sorted out IRL, I am back in the game.
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Thank you for the link, but like the few other guides I have seen, the info is just too basic. I want exact min/max rune set ups for builds and FAQs with advanced answers...like, are there stacking penalties if you keep doing the same set over and over? Is there any priority for your slots and gear? If I do 2 of the same class set, do the T4 and T8 abilities stack?
 
I guess many of these answers aren't out there because either the system is too new, or the people that know aren't letting their secrets out.
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Thank you for the link, but like the few other guides I have seen, the info is just too basic. I want exact min/max rune set ups for builds and FAQs with advanced answers...like, are there stacking penalties if you keep doing the same set over and over? Is there any priority for your slots and gear? If I do 2 of the same class set, do the T4 and T8 abilities stack?
 
I guess many of these answers aren't out there because either the system is too new, or the people that know aren't letting their secrets out.
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Right, I get *that* ... but after a while, isn't it still just the same? I mean, don't your alt-raids all end up being as competitive as the main-raids? I would hope so.
 
That's what I'm getting at. Ultimately, it's the same level of challenge, no matter what character you're playing, and multiple unlocks would just speed that up.
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There's guides for every single class out there.
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multiple unlocks would just speed that up.
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So, it's a matter of burning out because you get through it too fast, or burning out because it takes too long.
 
One will pay big bucks in order to reach that point, the other might never spend a dime.
 
Hmmm.	
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Burning out by replaying the same content too many times.  Once a week is fine.
 
At this point GA is a nachos and beer raid.  Go in with a good team and have some laughs.  You know it so well that you don't have to concentrate so hard.  Chain running it thought?  Kinda like chain running Infestation for plat.  It gets old.
 
I like GA and if our main raid keeps to the three day per week schedule all in SD I'll be disappointed but I'll live with it.  Three days really is my limit though not sure I'd have the energy to add a fourth day to run GA and five would likely be a non-starter. 
 
I do have alts I want to get in there though so I might give it a go once or twice a month.	
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There are guides out there, you just have to look :)
 
http://www.mistakesweremade.fail/free-2-play-rune-guide/
 
 
But yes, they did add more complexity to the runes.
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I think the new rune system is better in it's current incarnation, but I feel the introduction to the rune system is a bit lacking without the use of guides. I didn't participate as much as I'd like to in learning the new rune system and stat system between the transition and its announcement as I got really busy and alot of it still is taking some getting used to. (I'm basically relearning the game at his point WOOOOO or least feels like it)
 
Also I guess I might as well ask this while we're discussing runes. To get set bonuses like Onslaught I have to have all the onslaught runes on the same piece of gear? I've got 400ish rune tokens and im about to start spending em teeheeheeeeeeee
			
				
	Edited November 16, 2015 by Typrop	
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Yes - bonuses are per item, and apart from the Class bonuses, you can stack them, so the 2-6 point bonuses on different gear all add up.
 
The easiest way to rune up is to use something like this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BGAy5PjK73GcDd-aT3ym5-ZgbMc2FYuCxSjp97Db8zo/edit#gid=224162019as a starting point for your role. 
 
The one thing it doesn't tell you is the minimum ilvl for each of the sets, it does vary. Work out what you are prepared to spend (in terms of tokens and gold) and be careful when spending your tokens at the vendor.
 
At the AH and CX, the prices for runes (or mats) goes up drastically from High -> Superb -> Pure -> Divine, and there are some quirks of the market depending on Major (2 set bonus) or Minor (1 set bonus). Sometimes you can pick up very cheap runes to complete a set.
 
Fusion runes go in any flavour slot, and any flavour of rune can go in a fusion slot, so never re-roll fusion slots!
 
Spending rune tokens at the vendor is a simple 1 token per rune swap. So you might consider looking at the cost of buying/making a rune before you buy it from the vendor. You may find you are buying a 40g rune with it, when you could buy a 10 plat rune you could put on the AH. Also you may just prefer to spend them on what you need, that's definitely quicker!
 
Back on topic, you'll probably find that all runes you buy are going to be destroyed rather than saved in the future, because the charges are so high!
			
				
	Edited November 16, 2015 by Rakaposhi	
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I like GA and if our main raid keeps to the three day per week schedule all in SD I'll be disappointed but I'll live with it.
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Sure, the very best of the best runes are, but isn't that how it should be? High runes are less than 5g each. BoE gear from DS is hideously expensive on the AH, why shouldn't the rune mats that drop there be expensive?
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But perfectly spelled-out, cookie-cutter min-maxed builds?
 
Anything less is too basic. :lol:
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The class sets do not stack. You get one bonus. Ideally shoulders and legs are the prime targets for the class sets. Basically T8 GA set for one piece and T8 DS set for another.
 
The priority is different per class, that's what I was getting at. We know the basics, but the min/maxing is still being figured out for the most part. Some already kind of know but still get proven wrong on occasion. They gave us more options to play with, so there is a lot of trial and error right now.
 
What class are you?
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			The general idea is, you make a feature unappealing to use - you won't have to work on it again in the future. 	
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But perfectly spelled-out, cookie-cutter min-maxed builds?
 
Anything less is too basic. :lol:
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The general idea is, you make a feature unappealing to use - you won't have to work on it again in the future. 
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In a really technical way, we already do...you just have to buy the tokens with Omni-bits instead. 300-400 a month is a bit high, I think I get about 120 Omni-bits a week...which is 60 service tokens worth.
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Seriously though, subscribers need an allowance of these things already, what is the freaking hold up on that?  It should be a slam dunk to get loyal players 300-400 of these a month.....
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Spellslinger DPS.(PVP) Currently I have 3 full Devastation sets (Crit chance/severity), 3 full Onslaught sets (Vigor/Strikethrough), 1 full Vindication set, then about 4 fusions and partial Devastation (and I think even some resurgence) to get additional crit chance/severity. I currently PUG most of the time, so it makes that much more difficult to tell if my set-up is good or not.
 
It would help if I was in a better guild too- the one I am in was made by a long long time friend of mine who streams...but he is thinking now that it would be better if the few of us active in the guild went over to a more established guild. (so we'll be looking into that in the next week or so.)
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If you are Dominion on Entity, we are still looking to recruit for our new raid group. This is our 3rd progression raid group for weekend raiders. 
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			Considering the cost of creating the runes is more than removing them atm, worth it to remove them.	
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Domi on Entity, yes. Primarily PVP, but interested in learning the high-end PVE side of the game too. M-W-M was one of the premade groups I got to roll with this weekend, and I suggested M-W-M as a possibility to my buddy who runs our corp...so you might be hearing more from us soon.
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60 service tokens.  Bah.  Pure Pay To Win.
 
Bad Carbine.  Bad.  Sit in a corner.  No cash for you.	
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The exact words spoken at DC Universe, by the same kind of player.
 
Guess what, Jeff? Game is still going strong.
 
Just sayin' ...
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60 service tokens.  Bah.  Pure Pay To Win.
 
Bad Carbine.  Bad.  Sit in a corner.  No cash for you.
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Welp. that's it, PJ. That's *exactly* how they want this to go down.
 
People like you and me, they don't want our $15/month. They want $25-$100/month on service tokens, one-toon unlock vanity items and cash shop item "Rewards."
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