117037-do-you-think-this-game-might-actually-die-page-2

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At the dungeon level it`s not so much about gear (unless you`re in questing greens). A lot of people just don`t fully know how to maximize their dps at that level, or maybe they are focusing too much on dodging stuff and not enough on dpsing (or both). People in starter blue gear shouldn`t have any problems meeting dps checks in dungeons, they just have to get to know their class better.
 
We`ve all seen some DPSers be outperformed or outperform similar/equally geared people, often by a lot, especially at a pre-raiding level.	
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Terrible analogy, especially when all the best scenes in a movie are in the trailer... A more accurate description would be the first 20 minutes of a 90 minute movie with sequels and spin-offs is available free. 
 
But to get to the point; even using your 2 minute trailer of a 3 hour movie; that is still significant content. While I disagree fundamentally with the gross mis-scaling; equating perpetual free play access to levels 1-20 of a 90 level game + other content at end game, a 2 minute trailer often enough reveals significant information about the full movie. 
 
Significant =/= a lot. Significant = enough to be noticed / have an effect. For the perfect example of a trailer doing this check out the new Avengers Trailer; 26 million views in less than a day. do you think that was noticeable? IT sure was, and the information provided in it was also significant; we saw Tony Starks Anti-Hulk Suit; we saw Ultron himself in various forms, we see bits of the narrative giving us an indication of the direction of the story... etc etc etc.
 
 
 
Better tell all the people who edit wiki they are full of BS then, because they list WoW as Pay to Play with the option of Free to Play till 20
 
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The Captain fully support this game, and truly believes this is a game worth fighting for.
Make our cause your cause and stop whining.
Captain out.	
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There is no "whining" "Captain" many are just expressing their concerns because many of us have been around a while in the "MMO-'verse" and have seen previous products follow the same path that WS "seems" to be on.
 
If the game is eventually going to go "hybrid model" or "F2P" at this point I think most of us would rather it do so sooner than later and avoid the "SWTOR" drama ( and subsequent "smoke blowing"). <_<	
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IMO it's time to read the writting on the wall. Already at the beginning of August there was less than 1/40 the amount of people playing than there was at launch (stats from nosy gamer). If you continue that trend to present date, even at an optimistic estimate, you don't have anywhere near enough of a population to keep the game profitable.
 
Add to that layoffs, and you start to paint a picture of a game that just isn't going to make it. Unfortunately WildStar has failed, and you shouldn't spend your time and energy on a game that will become more and more unplayable as the weeks go by. Carbine failed to respond to bugs pointed out in beta, they failed to make changes when players were begging for them after launch, they failed to give us the content drops the PROMISED pre-launch as part of their advertising, and they failed to stop the bleeding when it was clear that what they provided for players wasn't good enough.
 
Wildstar was a great concept, and kudos to Carbine for trying something daring, but they failed in their execution. It's OK to be sad that a game you like isn't liked by other people, and in situations like this it's best to move on. The MMO market is too full of good options to spend your time on a game that most likely doesn't have a short term future.	
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			I hope somehow this game survives NCSOFTs capriciousness and finds at least a niche place that will be at least able to support those developing the game.	
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To answer the question in the OP's title: yes
 
One only needs to look up NCSOFT's history with MMO's, even bigger budget ones like Tabula Rasa to see the truth in that. However, I hope this game survives as a sub model but at the very least a FTP model ala TERA would be fine with me.	
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except that it's already there. A bunch of bosses have a hard enrage timer and instantly kill you after a certain period of time, meaning that a minimum DPS from all members of the party is required. And I didn't say to disallow people from entering, just to display a warning, because the majority of DPSers that I've seen don't know what amount of power they're supposed to be running for end game and a lot of tanks are confused about how to gear up.
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			I don't think it will die. Maybe it will go F2P way but I highly doubt that it will die.	
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			Why do we have to create the same threads to say the same things every week?	
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Why do we have to create the same threads to say the same things every week?
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If wikipedia is your sole source of information in life I feel very sorry for you.
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What else is there to do? The state of the forums and the topics and types of discussion are a direct correlation to the state of the game itself. The fact I can be away at work for 4 days with no internet access and come back today and see a handful of new posts and forum activity being exceptionally low speaks for itself.
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That or most people who actually enjoy the game are playing it rather than wasting time on trolls and haters here.
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Log into the megaservers right now in any major capital hub. Then go log into any server in TERA, FFIX:AAR, or SWTOR and do the same. Then post pictures of the amount of people you see right now across all those platforms.
 
The pictures will speak for itself.
 
But thanks for wasting time with all the subbing players here.
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Log into the megaservers right now in any major capital hub. Then go log into any server in TERA, FFIX:AAR, or SWTOR and do the same. Then post pictures of the amount of people you see right now across all those platforms.
 
The pictures will speak for itself.
 
But thanks for wasting time with all the subbing players here.
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Challenge accepted. Grabbed a SS of Illium just now; will get one of SWTOR as soon as the update finishes.
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Game will probably go F2P instead of *die* all though some people consider that being dead. I wouldn't be shocked if a f2p system gets introduced with drop 3. A game like wildstar has a ton of cash shop, market, potential or whatever people call it, especially seeing at how flexible most options are. I think most people that came to the game for the *hardcore concept will still stay(that are left anyway) if they don't dumb down raids or simplify class rotations, while still releasing new challenging content but with different level ranges just to have more people doing content in general.
 
At the same time if they gave an inch with that and everything did go f2p, could end up later down the road having people QQ about raids and other content being to hard. Then that gets nerfed into oblivion which tends to happen, and boom wildstar would lose it's image of *hardcore* at least that's how I would look at it. I hope drop 3 just blows everyone away and were just left in shock at how amazing it is, but from what I saw and tried it's really nice and wildstar needs something great. Whatever it is they have planned for this game hope it comes out sooner rather than later.  	
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			It is about to die, but will apply or combine or incorporate another business model and somehow survive.. or slow down the process of dying... but quality loss will come, bug fixes will be rare, as well as new content.	
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I'm on the fence. I do like the game and the combat mechanics. The combat mechanics have spoiled me for every other target-your-enemy type of game. I have 6 alts, 5 of which are 50s, and 2 that are in the process of getting attuned (rest are there for crafting and taking breaks between various characters). I'm still in the "getting attuned" process because I'm not a PuG'er (had both good and bad experiences), so I only run with guildies (pretty social group ).
 
That being said, the attunement process just hangs there, day after day. Most of us are at 50% in the dungeon portion of attunement. This is a bit of a turn-off, hence one of the reasons why I'm on the fence about this game. This, plus same old dailies, rep grind per toon, gating (attunement, the usual one crafting data fragment per day), RNG (cooking/technologist/architect, challenges I no longer bother doing) are other reasons why I'm on the fence.
 
I'd like this game to succeed and hope that Drop 3 brings some interesting changes.	
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Log into the megaservers right now in any major capital hub. Then go log into any server in TERA, FFIX:AAR, or SWTOR and do the same. Then post pictures of the amount of people you see right now across all those platforms.
 
The pictures will speak for itself.
 
But thanks for wasting time with all the subbing players here.
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Right...one GTN out of 3.  I just logged out of swtor a little while ago, and each gtn had people, plus everyone else on the fleet, not to mention the groups of people I ran across all morning while questing.
 
How about posting how many people were on fleet?  In each instance?
 
Cherry-picking your data makes you look like a tool.	
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			If this game goes F2P it WILL make a lot more money, SWTOR income took off after f2p. And the option to continue paying a sub for (cash shop points+ benefits) would be welcomed. Let people play for free OR let them pay. Or somewhere in the middle. (Unlocks) As for SWTOR i'm actually on it atm, and my server (The ebon hawk) might have typoed that. Is packed. Kaas city alone is well i have seen more low levels lately due to expansion but i have seen the population rise since P2P days as well. As for fleet it is busy as well, lots of RPers.	
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Right...one GTN out of 3.  I just logged out of swtor a little while ago, and each gtn had people, plus everyone else on the fleet, not to mention the groups of people I ran across all morning while questing.
 
How about posting how many people were on fleet?  In each instance?
 
Cherry-picking your data makes you look like a tool.
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Wildstar isn't going to continue in its current form. What changes will be made, and when,  is hard to predict and entirely up to NCSoft. Some kind of business model change seems far more likely than a total shutdown because the money spent to develop the game is already gone and won't come back, so as long as the game is pulling in even a tiny trickle of revenue more than it is spending each month on running costs, keeping it going is the sensible thing to do until you have a new product in development that needs that cash more.  The staff layoffs are a way of reducing that monthly overhead (among other things) which will help keep Wildstar going for the immediate future, even as it perhaps jeopardizes the game's chances for a longer-term rebirth and resurgence.  
 
Looking at NCSoft's history as a publisher, the shortest time a game has ever survived with them is still longer than a year; their least successful launches still ran for fifteen to eighteen months before shutdown (Tabula Rasa and Dungeon Runners), so even if Wildstar is terminal the death blow won't come for at least a year. If it comes sooner than that Wildstar will go down in the MMO record books in a really bad way and will become something legendary all right, just not in the way the devs hoped.... :blink:   And some NCSoft products that eventually went to shutdown limped along for nearly three years (Exteel).  CoX hung on for eight.  
 
The main effect of the layoffs is that they make it a lot harder to see how the game is going to get the significant readjustments it needs to stabilize and start to rebound. Carbine wasn't making a lot of progress on fixing bugs and getting new content out when they had a full team so this is going to slow things down on that front even more.  
 
But chances are that even in the absolute worst-case scenario, the game probably has a year or so to go before it's actually dead dead. 	
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			It won't die, too much money into it to die. It'll go f2p or some sort of hybrid system. Though of course when it goes f2p a bunch of people will claim it to be dead even though the populations always jump up when the game go f2p.	
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Jumped on pvp mega server.
Dominion city is dead. It's worse than vanilla wow Thunderbluff...	
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I didn't Cherry Pick anything, the poster explicitly asked for:
 
 Kriggles44, on 27 Oct 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:
:
 
I was merely following their instructions. Both SWTOR and W* are decently populated games. I'm sure I would have found more people around Oricon / Makeb had I gone there, but one of 3 GTN,s and one of 3 AH's in the city seemed like a fair enough comparison for the purpose of the posters statement. Which to be fair is especially silly given the time of day.
 
If /who worked in W* I think it would be a good idea to compare them between games; but as of yet it doesn't so it would be impossible to accurately compare a /who from SWTOR to one from W*
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The 3 gtn's on fleet are right next to eachother(plus a lot of people have gtn's on their ship now), and whatever people who do gtn stuff on fleet tend to split between them so that one spot probably isn't the best example.  The spaceport AH is right next to the major transit hub, and tends to be the goto location for a lot of things in both cities.  So comparing the one location that tends to have the most people to the location that tends to have the least people could definitely be viewed as cherry picking, regardless of whether or not that was your intention.
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this is just korriban alone, 63 players (excluding me)	
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this is just korriban alone, 63 players (excluding me)
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			You know half of you are going off topic, but either way. Drop 3 might help stablize it longer, but I think Drop 4(with more content on it hopefully) will be the decision maker.	
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I'm not sure if it will "die" but this whole game is broken at the very core of an MMO. The itemization(after lvl 50) currently is the worst executed thing I've ever experienced in a game like this. There is NO incentive to raid GA except to hopefully get to DS, and hopefully they have fixed the bugs by the time you get there. There are maybe 3 items in GA that are an upgrade to my Crafted gear. And of course I can't forget to mention the.... DRUM ROLL PLSSSSSSSSSSSS... exploited overpowered 1800 PVP weapons!!! (Carbines most epic item fail ever, hopefully).
 
The whole reason to raiding in a game like this is to progress by downing bosses and getting BETTER loot. But this hardly exists here.
 
I find myself at the login screen asking, "Why am I logging in"?
 
The only hope for longevity in this game is Drop 4, 5, 6... 18... 203... or whenever they can make major overhauls to itemization, PvE, and PvP. Don't hold your breath though :/	
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Challenge accepted. Grabbed a SS of Illium just now; will get one of SWTOR as soon as the update finishes.
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Just think how differently the last page of forum posts might have gone, if only you'd said "A single screenshot is such a tiny and easily manipulated slice of a zone's population that no matter what I show, it will not be convincing to anyone. What you're asking for isn't at all relevant to what we're discussing, which is game population. What we'd really need to make even a really bad but at least impartial comparison is a way to count the total number of people currently in the capital/major social hub. That's possible in TOR but not here. Without those numbers, this would be a waste of everyone's time, don'tcha think?"
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Right...one GTN out of 3.  I just logged out of swtor a little while ago, and each gtn had people, plus everyone else on the fleet, not to mention the groups of people I ran across all morning while questing.
 
How about posting how many people were on fleet?  In each instance?
 
Cherry-picking your data makes you look like a tool.
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			We gave last chance to Carbine for today. But... 	
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Rofl @ people comparing this dead desert to SWTOR.
 
SWTOR is populated as *cupcake*, its 3rd/4th most popular mmorpg after WoW and Lineage/(Tera maybe).
 
 
If you want to to compare WS population then do it properly - with RIFT,  TESO and other dead mmos. You guys :D	
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Rofl @ people comparing this dead desert to SWTOR.
 
SWTOR is populated as *cupcake*, its 3rd/4th most popular mmorpg after WoW and Lineage/(Tera maybe).
 
 
If you want to to compare WS population then do it properly - with RIFT,  TESO and other dead mmos. You guys :D
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You know half of you are going off topic, but either way. Drop 3 might help stablize it longer, but I think Drop 4(with more content on it hopefully) will be the decision maker.
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Just think how differently the last page of forum posts might have gone, if only you'd said "A single screenshot is such a tiny and easily manipulated slice of a zone's population that no matter what I show, it will not be convincing to anyone. What you're asking for isn't at all relevant to what we're discussing, which is game population. What we'd really need to make even a really bad but at least impartial comparison is a way to count the total number of people currently in the capital/major social hub. That's possible in TOR but not here. Without those numbers, this would be a waste of everyone's time, don'tcha think?"
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			My 6/6 guild lost 99% of its members today with a promise to get back together when Drop 4 hits. I hope with no more competition from WoD, Carbine can pull off a 'definitive' version of Wildstar in february.	
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You know half of you are going off topic, but either way. Drop 3 might help stablize it longer, but I think Drop 4(with more content on it hopefully) will be the decision maker.
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I think that, for a lot of people, Drop 3 will be the one that determines if they'll be willing to wait for Drop 4. In any case, Carbine should start marketing like crazy and offering free trials when Drop 3 hits. Granted, Drop 4 is in a better position because it won't be competing with the release of WoD, but, with all the hubbub about Drop 3, if it comes and goes without a massive marketing blitz, Carbine will have lost an opportunity to draw in players who have never even tried WoW.
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This, Carbine has already stated they will expand advertising, promotions and trials once they fix a lot of their glaring issues.  I think we will see a big push in drop 4 in January (when the WoD shine wears off) with lots of free trials and some free time for previous subscribers to get them back into Wildstar.  I doubt Drop 3 will do much, and any kind of help it gives will likely be wiped out by the release of WoD, so the true test is how many people come back to Wildstar, or stick around after trying Wildstar for the first time with the improvements to the game.
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And what's the /who for Entity? Oh right doesn't work...(they really should fix that :( )
 
Thanks for the contribution Arrie, but this really isn't much of a discussion of who has more players (the game with > 10.6 million casual players, and > 1 million monthly active players, or the game with a few hundred thousand players....)
 
 
A poster implied no one was on W* this morning; and that a SS of the game would prove that; They were incorrect; as quite a few people were on Entity and Jabbit at the time.
 
It happened that only a few people were on Jedi Covenant's Imp. Fleet when I hopped on my Sorc, which on a Monday morning; shouldn't surprise anyone on either game.
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My post was to the poster who claimed swtor was dead. i could go to sleet and show the fleet 1-3 instance all holding 150+ people on that map. As for the /who it actually does work, you just have to click search once for it to pick up and not be a total derp.
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Ah my bad. Didn't catch some one suggesting SWTOR is dead... who ever they were they must have been on something good :)
 
I've yet to get /who to work properly, though I have only tried a few times. I'll have to try playing with the search function to see if I can get it running properly :)
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Rofl @ people comparing this dead desert to SWTOR.
 
SWTOR is populated as *cupcake*, its 3rd/4th most popular mmorpg after WoW and Lineage/(Tera maybe).
 
 
If you want to to compare WS population then do it properly - with RIFT,  TESO and other dead mmos. You guys :D
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A big push with employees leaving Carbine and WS staff being laid off at NCSoft? I doubt it.
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Do you think Wildstar might actually die?
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I think that Wildstar very much has the potential to recover and be successful, once it's gotten some polish and bug fixes. It just needs to be managed properly, with better marketing, and an available free trial.
 
Howver, NCSoft is calling the shots, so Wildstar is doomed. It will be mismanaged into the ground even faster than Tabula Rasa was.	
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If Wildstar died, I won't be playing another MMO.  
 
GW2 sucks, no raiding.  Rift sucks, clunky combat.  Never tried WoW but I'm sure it's a hold your hand kind of game.  Guess I'll try Archage today since Wildstar is down but I'm pretty sure it doesn't hold a candle to Wildstar.
 
I gotten used to the brutal grind of Wildstar and looking at now, I wouldn't have it any other way.  That's what kept me in the game.  That's what will keep me playing.  Even know you all the content, you can still mess up and die.  That's the way it should be.  The "hardcore" elements of this game is what makes this game great.  
 
So as long as there are people like me, this game will never die.
 
Edit: After trying Archage, I guess I know now what "tab-targeting" is, you have to highlight the enemy in order to attack it.  Here's a mob of 3 people and you only fight one at a time.  That's complete garbage.  Boring and clunky combat.  Can't jump even though there are controls that indicate you could.  All people are talking about is owning land or some boring shit.  There's absolutely nothing that excites me.  It's a beautiful game, more polished with nice tutorials but..........it sucks.  This is what people left Wildstar for?	
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Don't get me wrong. The Drop 3 won't kill the game on its own.
 
Think of it this way, you have a patient in critical condition... the first few days are crucial to his fate. He's not going to die tomorrow, he just might take a turn for the worse.
 
If Drop 3 doesn't turn out well, Wildstar will take a turn for the worse, not only will they lose people, they won't gain any. Which will further strain pop-stressed servers, and further discourage the player base there into transferring from there until the population is so low the population can't function and people will start quitting, unable to reason out continuing their sub to a server with no community.
 
So yeah, Drop 3 won't kill the game or save it.  But acting like the game's future doesn't hinge on drop 3 is like saying that a critical patient's next few days aren't crucial to his recovery.
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Looking at NCSoft's history as a publisher, the shortest time a game has ever survived with them is still longer than a year; ...
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snip
 
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If NCSoft gives Carbine that much time I think Wildstar can recover.
 
 
I've been playing a Destro Warlock since August and while the play style mostly remains the same they whacked two abilities that allowed us some mobility.  The conversion to a hard-plant caster is really rubbing me the wrong way.  My sub there runs out in December, not sure I'm going to renew it.
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			Think this game is dead already. I would not mind people fidning other happiness in other great games, because WildStar gives very much pressure and very little joy.	
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A big push with employees leaving Carbine and WS staff being laid off at NCSoft? I doubt it.
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			Didn’t read 10 pages of stuff, just wanted to say … “Don’t worry about the What Ifs ... enjoy today!”	
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I think how frustrated people are with Wildstar depends on what they want to get out of it. As a raiding guild, it can be madly frustrating. People leave at an alarming rate because they just don't feel the reward justifies their time and money. As a GM, the roster boss is certainly the hardest raid boss.
 
That being said, I think Wildstar is going to be fine. The next 2 drops are bringing a ton of QOL changes as well as class, rune and itemization changes that, if implemented properly, will give the game a much more player friendly feel. When I decided to start a Wildstar guild, I did so knowing the first year was likely to be bumpy. The first year of a new MMO is *always* bumpy.
 
Will changes come to the subscription model? Maybe
Will changes come to future raid content? Probably (I doubt we'll see more 40 mans. I hope we see more 20 mans and maybe 10 mans someday)
Will there be more stuff to do as time goes on? Of course!
Will there always be players leaving the game? Yes. That never changes.
 
I think a lot of the people still here are in it to stay, though attrition will happen. We still see new players trickling in and leveling up, and I think that will increase over the next few months post drop 3 and 4. By the year mark, I think we'll see a steadily growing population due to the positive QOL and player friendly changes Carbine has planned and talked about. Really, it's just a matter of deciding if you want to hang in till then, take a break and check back later, or just walk away. It's a personal choice.
 
I choose to enjoy the ride.	
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			why even talk about this? 	
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I'm not talking doom and gloom here, but you seriously cannot compare the population of Wildstar to SW:ToR from screenshots, or any game for that matter. SW:ToR has way more people playing it with 500K active subs, 1.3 million active accounts (meaning another 700K accounts that have the possibility of purchasing and generating revenue). Numbers I wish Wildstar had.
 
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Will Wildstar die? Not for some time.
 
For me personally, it surely hasn't even remotely lived up to it's potential and I don't see much effort to reach that potential. I see a lot of posturing, and more promises, but little actual production. I think Drop 3 will be a flash in the pan and the game will limp along till the NEXT BIG PROMISE.	
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			I had to double check my web address, for a second I thought I was on the subreddit....	
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Will Wildstar die? Not for some time.
 
For me personally, it surely hasn't even remotely lived up to it's potential and I don't see much effort to reach that potential. I see a lot of posturing, and more promises, but little actual production. I think Drop 3 will be a flash in the pan and the game will limp along till the NEXT BIG PROMISE.
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			I really like the game, it's pretty close to what I'm looking for in an MMORPG. ... that being said I haven't been able to PvP for the past 2 weeks (BGs not popping, I'm on a different timezone) due to low population so I'm currently trying out other games as... there's just nothing for me to do apart from leveling alts.	
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Raif... that WAS MY POINT. A poster ignorantly posted taking a SS from W* on Monday Morning and comparing it to SS from other games with more players would be 'self explanatory'. I have posted ad nauseam that SS's are useless to compare game pops, and that we already know W* has a few hundred thousand active players, compared to SWTOR's 10.7 million casual and 1 million monthly active players... There is no comparison; yet SS don't show anything useful at all (except that more players than I was expecting were on Entity on Monday Morning, granted I assumed it would be close to none given the time and day :) )
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The game can never survive because it was created based on a hope that didn't turn out to be a reality; the hope that enough people would enjoy a game that requires an insane amount of grind just to be able to experience the best content content.
 
I totally understand why people who reach end-game quit. The vast majority of players don't have the will to spend countless hours running the same grind and doing the brutal attunement, all in the hope that in doing so they'll enjoy the raids later on. And let's be honest with ourselves, Carbine didn't implement RNG runes because they are dumb, they did it because they thought WE were dumb enough to grind the same gear over and over and over again just in the hopes that we'd keep going until we were lucky enough to get exactly what we wanted. It's all hamster wheel design.
 
Many of the defining aspects of the game were based around the wishes of a vocal minority in the MMO world, and now Carbine is finding out that the heart and soul of WildStar isn't that appealing to the vast majority of players. I don't think the game can ever survive, because it was built around a lie.	
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The game can never survive because it was created based on a hope that didn't turn out to be a reality; the hope that enough people would enjoy a game that requires an insane amount of grind just to be able to experience the best content content.
 
I totally understand why people who reach end-game quit. The vast majority of players don't have the will to spend countless hours running the same grind and doing the brutal attunement, all in the hope that in doing so they'll enjoy the raids later on. And let's be honest with ourselves, Carbine didn't implement RNG runes because they are dumb, they did it because they thought WE were dumb enough to grind the same gear over and over and over again just in the hopes that we'd keep going until we were lucky enough to get exactly what we wanted. It's all hamster wheel design.
 
Many of the defining aspects of the game were based around the wishes of a vocal minority in the MMO world, and now Carbine is finding out that the heart and soul of WildStar isn't that appealing to the vast majority of players. I don't think the game can ever survive, because it was built around a lie.
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The game can never survive because it was created based on a hope that didn't turn out to be a reality; the hope that enough people would enjoy a game that requires an insane amount of grind just to be able to experience the best content content.
 
I totally understand why people who reach end-game quit. The vast majority of players don't have the will to spend countless hours running the same grind and doing the brutal attunement, all in the hope that in doing so they'll enjoy the raids later on. And let's be honest with ourselves, Carbine didn't implement RNG runes because they are dumb, they did it because they thought WE were dumb enough to grind the same gear over and over and over again just in the hopes that we'd keep going until we were lucky enough to get exactly what we wanted. It's all hamster wheel design.
 
Many of the defining aspects of the game were based around the wishes of a vocal minority in the MMO world, and now Carbine is finding out that the heart and soul of WildStar isn't that appealing to the vast majority of players. I don't think the game can ever survive, because it was built around a lie.
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What grind? You don't HAVE to grind for runeslots at all. At least I didn't and I still can tank the 20 man raid just fine. And attunement is a joke after the nerf, the only time consuming part is the rep, which is almost finished if you did all leveling quests, also world bosses can be done in 2-3 days. In fact once you are attuned, it's the opposite, there is too little to do in the game. The game is not that hardcore as people make it out to be, they magnify the problems way too much. Get some chill pill, It's only a game.
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Hi folks,
 
Please stop with the personal insults, we don't like to have to close threads down but these do violate our code of conduct. Constructive discussion is great and encouraged, flame baiting one another, not so much.
 
- Team WildStar 	
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{| class="blockquote"
In case I don't have to, why are they existent anyway? This does not make sense. Furthermore, rep grind is finished when? Leveling quests + xxx ... nope nope nope. Wrong game buddy. I agree, the game not hardcore because of the grind.
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I will say this.  When I first heard about Wildstar, it was from friends that are avid gamers.  So I thought I would try it.  I mean I was able to play with friends I haven't grouped with since WoTK in WoW.  I missed their company.  So I gave this game a try.  It was interesting, it held my curiosity and my friends were playing. 
 
Well that stopped 2 months ago.  After this latest patch where I can't do anything on my homestead I can see why this game is dieing.  I have cancelled my subscription and will play out the remaining of my time waiting for my friends to come back and to see if this game improves.  I highly doubt it.
 
Helo.	
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Yes, this game is failing.
 
Those who cannot read between the lines are just holding on to some blind notion of what they wish this game to be, they see Wildstar succeeding through their own eyes without ever looking at the truth as it presents itself around every corner. Anytime you see a RIF of 60 people out of 200~ total is a tail tail sign that things are not going so well. Generally, reducing the amount of personnel overhead to keep costs down is never a good sign. I mean they could not get the content right with 200~ team members, what makes them think they can keep things together with 1/4th of their personnel gone? Combining servers is a sign of subscription issues - Megaservers were never intended - Devs saying they were are full of BS. Main designers, producers leaving the game 3 months after release also raises a red flag to internal issues as well. You can say they are 'trimming' the fat etc...but reality is they are scaling down in preparation to go F2P. Incoming maintenance mode with fewer and fewer drops. This game is not worth the 14.99 monthly sub, nor is it worth the time required to farm and buy CREDD.
 
Take a look at all the other games NCSoft has released to the West - the only game that has done well overall is GuildWars 2. This is a fact. All others have minimal subscriptions - mediocre content drops - and are of the nickel and dime mindset.
 
First impressions are lasting impressions.
			
				
	Edited October 29, 2014 by BusterCasey
	
		Language	
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			Good catch!	
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the only game that has done well overall is GuildWars 2. This is a fact.
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Vick, two points. 
 
1. Some people still refuse to acknowledge there are bad things that need to be fixed, or that talking about the bad things (even constructively) is a bad thing.  This does not foster a good environment for getting things fixed.  If criticism is shouted down, the status quo prevails. 
 
2. Just giving something time to improve is not a guarantee that it will get better. History is littered with cases of people digging even deeper holes for themselves. 
 
 
The best advice is not to be pessimistic or optimistic,  but /realistic/.  Temper your enthusiasm with pragmatism. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
Vick, two points. 
 
1. Some people still refuse to acknowledge there are bad things that need to be fixed, or that talking about the bad things (even constructively) is a bad thing.  This does not foster a good environment for getting things fixed.  If criticism is shouted down, the status quo prevails. 
 
2. Just giving something time to improve is not a guarantee that it will get better. History is littered with cases of people digging even deeper holes for themselves. 
 
 
The best advice is not to be pessimistic or optimistic,  but /realistic/.  Temper your enthusiasm with pragmatism. 
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			I'll just say when there is everyone selling and nobody buying, yea eventually it will, so start buying off the ah/cx or it's bye bye. ;)	
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{| class="blockquote"
Vick, two points. 
 
1. Some people still refuse to acknowledge there are bad things that need to be fixed, or that talking about the bad things (even constructively) is a bad thing.  This does not foster a good environment for getting things fixed.  If criticism is shouted down, the status quo prevails. 
 
2. Just giving something time to improve is not a guarantee that it will get better. History is littered with cases of people digging even deeper holes for themselves. 
 
 
The best advice is not to be pessimistic or optimistic,  but /realistic/.  Temper your enthusiasm with pragmatism. 
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{| class="blockquote"
Vick, two points. 
 
1. Some people still refuse to acknowledge there are bad things that need to be fixed, or that talking about the bad things (even constructively) is a bad thing.  This does not foster a good environment for getting things fixed.  If criticism is shouted down, the status quo prevails. 
 
2. Just giving something time to improve is not a guarantee that it will get better. History is littered with cases of people digging even deeper holes for themselves. 
 
 
The best advice is not to be pessimistic or optimistic,  but /realistic/.  Temper your enthusiasm with pragmatism. 
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			Serious question... why the cupcake does anyone care? Game is fun, keep playing it. If you don't enjoy it, stop. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
From my own experience, a year or so ago, GW2 was in the same situation where it was losing players rapidly due to general dislike for its Living Story content, mediocre story, and lack of endgame.
 
Just goes to show that doing well "overall" requires enough time for bad things to be fixed and for a transition into better things.
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No way I am reading all the posts to date on this. :D   I just skimmed through them.
 
My input is that this game (IMHO) on many levels totally blows away all the MMO competition.
 
However, it was released before it was ready. Yeah Yeah, I know. No game is released before it is ready. Yada Yada. :rolleyes:
 
What I mean is that this game was released WAY before it was ready. Two more months (maybe three) and I think things would be very different right now. NC Soft just HAD to have their payday and demanded a release date based upon a short term bottom line.
 
The worn out cliche of "You never get a second chance to make a first impression" totally applies here.
 
End of story.
 
Or is it? Time will tell, but I'm not putting any of my dry powder in KRX.	
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Theres no way gw2 lost players at the rate Wildstar did. Just because people are up in arms on the forums about the living story doesn't mean they are losing players in droves without gaining any. I don't even know how you can compare gw2 to ever being in the state Wildstar is in. World vs world was still alive and doing well compare that to Wildstar where warplots are not existant. Leveling maps still contained players. There was always a huge zerg of players doing world bosses compare thag to Wildstar nobody. I mainly played pvp hotjoin still had over 100 lobbies. The list goes on. Some of you people are beyond delusional
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{| class="blockquote"
Serious question... why the cupcake does anyone care? Game is fun, keep playing it. If you don't enjoy it, stop. 
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{| class="blockquote"
What I mean is that this game was released WAY before it was ready. Two more months (maybe three) and I think things would be very different right now. NC Soft just HAD to have their payday and demanded a release date based upon a short term bottom line.
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yasfan,
 
I cannot argue with your reasoning. Good point and well taken.	
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			Game is fun  I play it.. .when it is not I stop... It really is THAT SIMPLE!!!	
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{| class="blockquote"
From my own experience, a year or so ago, GW2 was in the same situation where it was losing players rapidly due to general dislike for its Living Story content, mediocre story, and lack of endgame.
 
Just goes to show that doing well "overall" requires enough time for bad things to be fixed and for a transition into better things.
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New WOW expansion coming ? Yep... That game will suck back 1000s of people chewed out filling time in other games. 
 
If this mythical patch 3 makes things amazingly better, im not too sure how though, then im sure people will be onboard for a few more months.
 
The game will be F2P in a year, its the best model to follow for $£$. Expect a stupid Cash shop soon offering cool hats and Dye colours for $4 a pop. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/117266-luminai-warplot-warplot-shortcomings/
what's that about non existent warplots son? :)
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{| class="blockquote"
Serious question... why the cupcake does anyone care? Game is fun, keep playing it. If you don't enjoy it, stop.
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Let's see how to phrase this.....
 
Is the game doing great? No, there's definitly still issues that need to be resolved with the game to make it great.
PvP is one of these things that comes to mind for example. I'm not really a PvP'er, and even I can see how unbalanced this PvP currently is. I tried battlegrounds as a PvE Healslinger, and it took 5 people to keep me occupied long enough for them to kill the flag carrier. When I switched to DPS, I was honestly shocked how hard I could plow through most classes with my Assassinate and Charged Shot.
So yeah, as PvP newbie, I feel the imbalance greatly.
 
Even in the PvE scene there is a lot of work that needs to be done.
A lot of quests, shiphands, dungeons etc are still bugged on various conditions and this honestly needs to be fixed.
Balance wise there's also a struggle going on that needs to be resolved between classes.
 
Is the game fun?
Yes, the game is incredibly fun. I'm having a blast logging in every (or when I can) and actually work on my character, play with my guildmates and friends and do stuff.
Even the repetitive content from dailies is something I often do. Not every day, but enough to get capped and make money with my Character.
Since MegaServers I've seen my platinum go up on a daily Basis.
 
We all know the History with NCSoft and their games.
They have a "unique" approach when it comes to running their games, but I don't want to think too much about that.
As long as this game is running, improving, and fun to play I will keep playing, regardless what happens.
If changes come, I will deal with them.
If bugs come, I will wait for fixes
If people annoy me, heck there's room on my ignore list for more.
I will not let stupid things take away my fun in this game.
 
I can understand that some people might not have the patience to wait for these fixes.
That's fine. You can quit playing for now and come back when it's all fixed and running. The same happened in SWTOR with many people I knew.
Heck I remember even typing the same explanation there.	
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I don't know if I should laugh or cry. How many warplots in total have been initiated since launch? Compared to wvw which is much much much more than 40 players and is always open 24/7 I don't see what you're trying to prove. Warplots are a failure it's no secret why do you think they're adjusting the numbers down to 30?
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Liking the changes to WoW.  Hope they let us fly in the new expac at some point ( that was the only thing that ground my gears enough not to play for the last 5 months or so ... ) been playing WoW again for the pre-expac event ... got yet another toon to 90 ( I have 19 now ).
 
Just haven't been able to get myself motivated to log into WS and get at least one 50.  The "smell of SWTOR" has descended upon WS to me.  Once bitten twice shy.  Carbine really REALLY needs to do some PR work to convince me to continue to support their game.  Again, as I have said WS is following nearly the same exact path that SWTOR did but much MUCH sooner. <_<	
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Kappa.	
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Lets keep the discussion to the OP please, and not make this about other games, we have off topic if you want to continue the discussion there. :) 
 
- Team WildStar 	
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{| class="blockquote"
Liking the changes to WoW.  Hope they let us fly in the new expac at some point ( that was the only thing that ground my gears enough not to play for the last 5 months or so ... ) been playing WoW again for the pre-expac event ... got yet another toon to 90 ( I have 19 now ).
 
Just haven't been able to get myself motivated to log into WS and get at least one 50.  The "smell of SWTOR" has descended upon WS to me.  Once bitten twice shy.  Carbine really REALLY needs to do some PR work to convince me to continue to support their game.  Again, as I have said WS is following nearly the same exact path that SWTOR did but much MUCH sooner. <_<
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			Short answer: Yes.	
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Eh... I know NCSoft isn't very popular on these forums, but Carbine was formed in 2005, and already working on Wildstar in 2007. Wildstar was released in mid-2014, and is Carbine's only product. I agree completely that the game wasn't ready at launch, and I agree completely that another few months of development would've helped enormously if the developers had accurately recognized where the problem points were before the playerbase was explaining it to them by walking out the door.
 
Given the swagger in marketing of this game leading up to launch, I sincerely doubt they would have. Most of the problems that people are griping about with regards to itemization, reward structure, and entry barriers to the endgame simply aren't bugs, no matter how much people might wish that they were. They're deliberate design choices, and they were disastrously wrong.
 
So I'm not sure that it's fair to call NCSoft out for being impatient. That doesn't sound like "short-term" thinking to me--more like "You've had enough time, out of the nest we go."
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I couldn't agree with this more. The largest problems that most people have with the game had nothing to do with bugs, and have everything to do with deliberate design choices. The limited number of beta testers who were allowed access to endgame content told them all the issues that they were seeing: nothing to buy with elder gems, attunement is terrible, warplots require far too many players, too much RNG, rewards for group content are terrible. Many of these complaints were acknowledged and simply dismissed. 
 
I really did enjoy this game until I ran up against the terrible endgame design choices, and I really would like to enjoy it again, but the development team seems extremely resistant to making the types of changes that players want. The players say get rid of attunement, and they respond by turning down the grind of attunement by 20%. The players say improve group content rewards, and they respond by creating more opportunities for groups to get terrible rewards. Players say get certain items are far too rare, and they respond by turning down the drop rate to 1 in 1,000,000 from 1 in 10,000,000. They say they want to attract more casual players, but are devoted to loot based advancement (hint: time limited players hate loot based advancement). The development team here is very schizoid in a way. There's a real disconnect between what they say they want the game to be, and what they build. They want this to be a game of 2015, yet continue to make the design choices of 2005, and the worst possible ones at that.
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I didn't know people still had a problem with attunement. I don't hear people complaining about it in game at all. Everyone seems to enjoy the process, at least folks that I run into.
 
I'm happy with the modifications they are made to the process. Better to make small tweaks than sweeping changes, imo.
 
And the drop rate for TF certainly went from very rare to "LOL- there's another one"! And quite honestly, that was too much of a drastic change for me. But whatever- it's false to say they haven't made some big changes to the numbers.
 
With a lot of these design choices you really aren't going to see how good or bad they are until you throw a bunch of people at them. They did, and now they are tweaking. I really don't understand why people leave the game over these things that are being tweaked and adjusted when the core gameplay is so amazing. For me, gear and progression will always be secondary to how much fun running dungeons are. Everything else can be tweaked, but it's hard to fix combat or fight design that isn't fun.
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{| class="blockquote"
You don't hear about it anymore because the people who had issues with it left the game.
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{| class="blockquote"
That's one explanation. I haven't known anyone who has left the game because of it, though.
 
I don't understand why the current attunement process would drive anyone away. It's mostly just playing the game, which presumably people who like the game would enjoy doing.
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{| class="blockquote"
Yes and no. I actually dislike the idea of attunement myself since it forces me to play content I have zero interest in in order to get to content I am interested in. I don't care about worldbosses, and I certainly don't like being forced to play every dungeon and adventure (I like instances, i just really don't like feeling like I'm forced to do them). 
 
While I get that perhaps the attunement process is some kind of screening in order to let those people actually interested in raiding get there and keep out those who would be a liability, it also keeps out those of us who just aren't interested in doing every piece of PvE content available before raiding. For me personally, I enjoy raiding, but I don't care to be forced through some gauntlet before I'm allowed in. I realize there are necessary gear and mechanics, and I'd be happy to meet the minimum requirements on my own without being told what content I have to do, or being forced to do content that is definitely unnecessary for me to do in order to get the items or experience I need.
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{| class="blockquote"
I just like having something to work on and work toward. But I'm a goal oriented person. I get that maybe not everyone is like me, but it does seem like progressing toward goals is kind of ingrained in the RPG genre. I'm doing the attunement stuff on my alt even though I don't plan to raid with him.
 
Regardless, now that the dungeons are bronze it doesn't seem like there's that much you are forced to do. Is anyone who is interested in this game for raiding not going to go through each of the dungeons at least once? And adventures you can clear in an evening. The world bosses are maybe a bit of a grind, but it honestly isn't too bad (would be better if all world bosses gave achievements so you don't have to do them at the end).
 
It seems to me at worst the attunment process as is should be a mild annoyance for those who don't like it. Miserable enough to make you quit and I suspect the game just wasn't for you to begin with.
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{| class="blockquote"
You act like getting attuned and raiding is the only reason i play this game >_>.
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{| class="blockquote"
No, I really wasn't thinking this at all. I was thinking that IF you are raiding (the only case in which attunement is required) THEN you'll be doing the dungeons and adventures anyway. I mean, are you really interested in raiding and not doing all of the other, more easily organized instanced content that's available to you.
 
Yeah, there are a few other pieces to attunment like the world bosses and a few quests, but the quests are really just an extension of what we've been doing leveling to 50 anyway. I can see how the bosses are a mild irritant for anyone who just wants to focus on instanced content, but certainly not game quitting worthy. Meaning I can't see how attument in its present form could be responsible for getting the game shut down.
 
 
 
We were "forced" to level to 50, which takes a lot longer than anything we have to do to get attuned once we start the quest.
 
 
 
 
What is the stuff you don't care about? The world bosses?
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I think the (possibly dubious) value of world bosses is that the get you to do some >5 man content before you raid. It also can get the greater community to work together.
 
Anyway, I totally get the difference between being forced to do something verses what you want to do. It's just not a thing for me because I see most games developed has having a path to complete to get to the next level. For themepartk game like this that is mostly "on rails", it just seems like one more step on the path of beating it.	
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True, and I respect that part of themepark mmos. Again I think the attunement process is just implemented poorly. If it was guaranteed to give you a set of basic raid level gear by the end, and/or put you up against challenges that would actually prepare you for raiding (like if the world bosses were actually difficult), I'd be all for it. That would be a good quest that would say "Ok, finish this and you'll have everything you need for the next level. If you can't do it then you either need to figure out what you're doing wrong or find other end-game content to do. "
 
I can deal with not choosing my own path if there's something for me at the end. Experience with mechanics, gear, etc, anything that is progression is fine. It's the combination of forcing me to do something and me getting nothing out of it that really grinds my gears.  	
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Is hard to say.
 
If the people in charge are still on denial about the weaknesses of the game, then yeah, it will die unless they go F2P.
 
Some examples:
 
1) TimeTravel still believes the difficulty and length of dungeons is fine. Considers adventures as the easier alternative instead of also making easier and shorter dungeons.
 
2) Jtal still working on "fixing" the rng rune slot system by adding more rng. There is absolutely no cupcake reason for this system other than an artificial time gate.
 
3) They fired the PvP lead designer before he could implement his changes and they have had many chances to give PvP some relief which they have not cared to do.
 
4) No one at Carbine cares to try to fix QOL issues plaguing the entire game. If this were a F2P game it would have been fine...but this is a sub game for gods sakes.  
 
5) Optimization still a joke.
 
Carbine keeps saying they are listening and keep saying pretty words to get our hopes up....but how long do they plan to make us wait? It seems at this point Carbine still haven't gotten on their feet after stumbling through the gate. There needs to be a strong leader with a strong vision that can put their foot down and tell all the devs at Carbine that this is how the game is going to go.....and that leader is sadly missing.
 
I have said in the past that we should stick to games we like even if they are going through a tough spot...but lately, I have been having trouble looking for a reason to log in. The way Carbine have handled and continue to handle the game has been nothing but a disaster. I think one of the reasons I am having trouble logging in is because I just don't know if the time I put in the game is going to be worth it. I'll wait till Drop 3 hits live, give it a good objective chance, and then I'll decide if my sub is worth it or not.
 
And...this is a pet peeve of mines....but STOP mispronouncing the word "Carbine". Its pronounced "CarbEEEn"	
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{| class="blockquote"
well INITIATE them! On Luminai on the exile side we had twice as many people wanting to go than the spaces that we had. In future we might double warplot at the same time. 
 
 
 
My boyfriend put it the best "I rather play what I enjoy for months than be stuck in what I hate for years". Nothing should be weighed on how wildstar will do months from now. It's irrelevant. If you find it fun now, play now :)
 
 
I have 5 classmates that play WoW for years now. They absolutely hate the most recent patch as any skill diversity got removed and a lot of classes got reduced to one or two button classes. This WoW expansion might actually see fan drop off far faster than any previous ones. Simply because by simplifying too much they made the game not fun to play.
 
 
 
Guild Wars 2 took 2 years to release in China. 1 year in and Underworld was dead. When I tried to help the server we couldn't collect enough people to do world bosses and we only managed a team of 5 for world versus world. Ended up transfering out to Far Shiverpeaks far before the megaservers him.
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{| class="blockquote"
 
 
Kappa.
 
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-snip-
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{| class="blockquote"
Nice try taking a ss when servers are down lol.
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{| class="blockquote"
I really did enjoy this game until I ran up against the terrible endgame design choices, and I really would like to enjoy it again, but the development team seems extremely resistant to making the types of changes that players want. The players say get rid of attunement, and they respond by turning down the grind of attunement by 20%. The players say improve group content rewards, and they respond by creating more opportunities for groups to get terrible rewards. Players say get certain items are far too rare, and they respond by turning down the drop rate to 1 in 1,000,000 from 1 in 10,000,000. They say they want to attract more casual players, but are devoted to loot based advancement (hint: time limited players hate loot based advancement). The development team here is very schizoid in a way. There's a real disconnect between what they say they want the game to be, and what they build. They want this to be a game of 2015, yet continue to make the design choices of 2005, and the worst possible ones at that.
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Wildstar won't die.
 
It is going through growing pains.  The current fad in MMO's is that a ton of people try out the new thing for a few months then go home.  Then you have the bandwagon players that follow streamers like Towellie, he is notorious for trying games praising them up and down then quitting shortly after and going back to WoW lol.  When the streamer leaves so do the followers that played the game just because the streamer was playing.
 
This game will continue to evolve and build up a loyal base.  The first few months don't define a MMO... the years after do.  SWTOR for example had a huge fall out, switched up its game model, and now its one of the top played MMO's and it was getting very negative feedback from the community much like Wildstar is right now.  But is that game dead? no far from it, its doing really good.
 
People need to put away the pitch forks and the scare tactics.	
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			chua agree with non lvl 50 poster new to game...qeues are dead no new player in his right mind is gonna want to only be able to quest to end-game just to be able to participate in the mm part of mmo no matter how quickly can be done...also tend to agree paid Beta since Drop 3 is the patch that should have been Drop 1 but that chua opinion maybe some others too	
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{| class="blockquote"
Servers weren't down at the time of my post, just not prime time.
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{| class="blockquote"
I walked by a school at night and there were no students. OMG! 100% drop-out rate!
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Wow sick, 13 viewers on the top stream!
 
Do you really think that screenshot is meant to be convincing us of the game's success?  If anything you just reinforced the person's argument you were trying to counteract.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Wow sick, 13 viewers on the top stream!
 
Do you really think that screenshot is meant to be convincing us of the game's success?  If anything you just reinforced the person's argument you were trying to counteract.
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