Report 1174

Report #1174
Skillset: Skill: Curiomasks
 Org: Paladins Status: Completed Jun 2013
Furies' Decision:
Solution 2.
Problem: Curio masks: The fact that you now sometimes have rooms full of masked
people is not so much a mechanical as an aesthetical pet peeve of mine with
these masks. It seems odd that Lusternia suddenly turned into a realm of masked
people. The same can be said for other artifacts, like the pig nose, but this is
the most blatantly apparent one so far. The fact that the masks don't drop on
aggressive actions or being attacked compounds to the issue and adds a more
combat-oriented aspect to it. SCENT and WHO HERE alleviate the effect, but I
still think the masks should have little to no impact on combat at all.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Make the masking effect of curio masks become
 inactive for X minutes if their wearer takes an
 aggressive action or gets attacked.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Make the masking effect of curio masks drop whenever
 their wearer is unable to be masochistic.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: Solution 1, but with the exception of attacking
 denizens (if such an exception can be made).
Player Comments:
---[Llandros on 5/2 @ 20:10 writes]:
This has less impact on combat than having titles that include the name of well
known combatants or illusions that reference people that are not there. You
either know who you are fighting or you don't. Using look to find your next
target has always been crazy spammy in group fights anyway so it is a bad habit
to have. However, hollow reasons to change it do not exactly trump no real
reason not to.
---[Veyrzhul on 5/2 @ 20:51 writes]:
Such titles are illegal and such illusions need to be put up first. Plus, in
some outlier cases (scented indoors room, for example), you need to rely on
squinting to see who's there. I'm rather doubtful the masks were introduced with
such effects in mind.
---[Veyrzhul on 5/2 @ 20:52 writes]:
I mean skunked indoor rooms, not scented.
---[Xenthos on 5/2 @ 22:35 writes]:
... why should they drop? They don't hide your actions (unlike marauder mask),
they don't hide you from scries, they don't hide you from WHO HERE, they don't
actually hide you from -anything at all-. Marauder masks drop because they do
these things. I don't see any real compelling reason for curio masks that do
nothing to fall. Anyone looking for targets really uses WHO HERE anyways, or
other options in which the mask does not interfere. Mechanical corrections to
pet peeves do not really seem necessary.
---[Celina on 5/2 @ 22:43 writes]:
They need to drop. They weren't supposed to be combat curios, as far as I can
tell.
---[Llandros on 5/2 @ 23:52 writes]:
Re-reading my comment it's not clear, I don't agree with the problem but I have
nothing to counter it with. No objection.
---[Veyrzhul on 5/3 @ 02:09 writes]:
For most scenarios, you can use WHO HERE, but quite frankly, why should you have
to use WHO HERE in each room you pass through that has people with masks in it
(and people with masks abound already)? If masks weren't hiding anything at all,
I wouldn't be posting this report.
---[Rivius on 5/3 @ 12:47 writes]:
I agree. Combat-wise they have a bigger impact than I think they were meant to,
since they make squinting so much less useful. Apart from that, as you said, it
adds a really strange theme to Lusternia where everyone and their mother is a
solstice dragon apparently.
---[Kregarn on 5/3 @ 13:48 writes]:
Just as a note, I'm fairly certain they were aware of the effects of the masks
themselves. The squint argument doesn't really go anywhere because in order to
fix it, you'd have to eliminate the masks completely. They would have no point
if you were basing your argument on this. Also, I don't see why they're NOT
supposed to impact combat. They are difficult curios to complete even with help.
The other powers curios are certainly useful for combat. A free enchant you
don't have to wear, dmp and boost to damage, and the ability to travel faster in
certain environments PLUS a bix effect. While I'm sure there is a cosmetic
aspect to these masks, I think there is also a valid combat use for them that
wasn't unintended. That said, they are annoying so I understand the argument
against them.
---[Kregarn on 5/3 @ 13:49 writes]:
Pardon, in the last line *valid combat use for them that was intended.
---[Synkarin on 5/3 @ 16:27 writes]:
I don't support this, I don't even own a mask but asking for a change based on
'it annoys me' isn't even close to good justification. The squint argument falls
short (easy enough to code re-wearing the mask when having a faceoff, as the
solutions don't prevent that). I agree it's a combat advantage not to show up on
'look' but it's not really that big of a deal. No support of either solution.
---[Enyalida on 5/3 @ 16:34 writes]:
I support this report.
---[Veyrzhul on 5/3 @ 16:45 writes]:
Synkarin: The removing/rewearing workaround is mostly preventable by making the
mask effect inactive when a person is unable to be masochistic.
---[Synkarin on 5/3 @ 17:32 writes]:
Your masochism effect isn't listed as a solution, just when the wearer attacks
or the wearer is attacked causes the mask to drop. That's really irrelevant
because faceoffs still last long enough for masochism to kick back in, allowing
someone to rewear it. There are plenty of options to see who is in the room and
who is in the area, because the masks only change the 'look' appearance and
nothing else. It's easy enough to guess who is who and circumvent the mask.
Everyone deals with this and I haven't really seen anyone win or lose because
they had the 'mask advantage.' I don't really see a need, or the justification
for this change to go through.
---[Shuyin on 5/4 @ 02:31 writes]:
I don't think it's necessary, but I don't think it's objectionable either.
---[Viynain on 5/4 @ 03:31 writes]:
I have no problem with any of these proposals.
---[Xenthos on 5/4 @ 16:12 writes]:
I just don't understand the point here. If it drops when you take an aggressive
action, you can't even use it for PvE (all aggressive actions are created
equally). Fight or hunt anything and down it goes, which just ruins the entire
point of having the things in the first place. None of the solutions here will
do a single thing for the stated 'problem' (can't see who it is when you
squint), because the mask can always be re-worn in such a situation. So, you
change -nothing- as far as combat utility goes, but you nerf it for general use
and enjoyment.
---[Veyrzhul on 5/4 @ 17:02 writes]:
Solutions adjusted.
---[Celina on 5/8 @ 03:58 writes]:
I don't understand the assertion that the point of these things is for bashing.
That's a pretty big leap. Solution 2 seems the most effective.
---[Ushaara on 5/8 @ 11:02 writes]:
Solution #2 works for me.
---[Synkarin on 5/8 @ 14:28 writes]:
I don't understand the assertion that these are a combat hinderance. As pointed
out, and unrefuted, during standoffs, nothing is preventing you from just re-
wearing the mask and shielding after the 'masochism' period wears off. You can
still scent/scan/who here to find people, in your room or adjacently. I still
don't support any solutions, I don't own a mask currently, and plenty people on
both 'sides' wear these masks.
---[Llandros on 5/8 @ 16:39 writes]:
I don't think it has been mentioned but stoles should be included as they
basically have the same function and I don't know of any reason they should be
exempt. Especially since they are sold and don't have to be put together.
---[Dynami on 5/10 @ 22:10 writes]:
All solutions supported.
---[Chade on 5/22 @ 19:45 writes]:
I'm not really sure this change is needed, particularly as the justification for
it isn't fantastic. As Xenthos has pointed out, the masks don't have the same
potential as a marauders mask and whilst a large room of them can be annoying
there are plenty of ways to bypass this annoyance factor.
---[Laysus on 6/10 @ 16:55 writes]:
Supporting solution #2
---[Nihta on 6/11 @ 03:58 writes]:
I don't think there is too much of a reason for this report, all players have
access to the mask as much as any other artifact, and I feel that only hiding
the person from squinting and looking is a fair advantage for its cost. SCENT
and WHO HERE still work, in addition to scry and other detection methods. It is
also easy to see that the person is there, via seeing the masked person, for
purposes of assessing the strength of a skunked room. I don't really support any
solution here, but of them all, I think #2 would be the fairest. Not supported.
---[Neos on 6/17 @ 02:12 writes]:
One issue that does need to be resolved in regards to curio masks is blocking of
certain room messages in regards to players. One example being that they block
the message that shows when someone is in a pit.
---[Synkarin on 6/20 @ 16:54 writes]:
Talking with Ixion, he brought up that this is just one more thing that adds
into the complexity of combat for people trying to get into it. It's just
another added hassle of learning/coding the use who here or the new room.players
gmcp message, or buying a dingbat snout to counteract. That being said, I agree,
it's an unnecessary addition to combat, and with that in mind, I support this
overall. It is something you can work around, which is easy for those of us that
have been doing combat for ages, it's not easy for those just getting into
combat.