Report 1247

Report #1247
Skillset: Starhymn Skill: Recessional
 Org: Cantors Status: Completed Nov 2016
Furies' Decision:
Solution 1.
Problem: With the overhaul, Recessional has seen a dramatic drop in
effectiveness. Whereas previously, it would assist in blocking curing of aurics
via horehound, and aeon via blocking of phlegmatic, these have been shifted to
steam balance and now bypass the effect. In addition, the removal of the
reliable aeon of PrincessFarewell allows easier coding around this effect with
stacked commands as a much greater portion of the fight will be spent outside
the effects of aeon. This report aims to bring Recessional closer to its prior
level of effectiveness.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Extend the effect of Recessional to also apply to
 smoking Steam, allowing a Cantor to support auric and
 aeon effects once more.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Exchange the auric and aeon-affecting properties of
 Recessional from pre-overhaul for an increase the
 proc rate of the effect. This would not consume the
 associated balance. (Suggested rate: 50-66%. Notably
 as comparison, as this does not consume the relevant
 balance, it would remain weaker and less hindering
 than the proposal for Jitterbug in #1533 which has
 also suffered a similar plight).
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: In addition to either of the above, cause Recessional
 upon a successful block to allow a negative effect to
 dissuade spamming to negate this issue such as
 causing a proc of what is currently the vomiting
 effect when triggered. Alternatively, briefly steal
 the associated balance. (0.5s-0.8s, as to not
 adversely affect in-aeon curing).
Player Comments:
---[Synkarin on 10/19 @ 01:31 writes]:
What cure balances does recessional affect currently?
---[Raeri on 10/19 @ 07:51 writes]:
Its 33% on eating and drinking anything, no delay or cd.
---[Synkarin on 10/19 @ 11:57 writes]:
Ok, a few things come to mind, I don't think it's a good idea to have this block
aeon curing itself, but I'm not opposed to it blocking aurics/earwort. It
already has a chance to block asthma and anorexia in aeon, which is strong in
itself even without taking balance. I'm also opposed to the 50-66% chance of
blocking the locking affs to make up for not affecting aeon. Would leaving it at
33% and having it just block aurics/earwort be acceptable?
---[Falmiis on 10/20 @ 03:23 writes]:
So I'm not really understanding your opposition to bringing Recessional back to
its pre-overhaul status when that is your entire premise for buffing Jitterbug
in report #1533. Care to explain what the difference between the premises and
proposed solutions relative to the pre-overhaul status quo are?
---[Synkarin on 10/21 @ 00:01 writes]:
It's simple really, I'm not asking Jitterbug to return to it's exact status as
it was pre overhaul. If that was the case, I would be asking for aeon and the
rest of the steam afflictions to be affected by it because they all previously
had herb cures (aeon was cured by reishi in addition to phlegmatic). I think
it's too strong and made concessions in my report to make it as useful to
minstrels while not making it overly strong. I'm making the same argument here.
I think blocking aeon cure itself is too strong.
---[Wobou on 10/21 @ 11:37 writes]:
Hmm. I share some of Synkarin's concerns. I don't think solution 1 should be an
extension, in other words I think it's too strong that that one ability could
block curing stupidity (which makes curing aeon harder), asthma (which makes
curing aeon impossible), and aeon itself. Not that you folks necessarily have a
way to perform that setup solo but in groups it sounds viable. This is a buff
from what it was pre overhaul because pre overhaul this ability would not have
impacted either asthma (curable by a salve) or anorexia/stupidity (curable by
focus mind). I would be more okay with a version of solution 1 that just
impacted steam and nothing else. I have similar concerns with solution 2 and
asthma. Do you folks have a means to inflict with asthma? If someone had asthma
and stupidity in solution 2 their odds of getting a puritydust command through
would be about 24.75% - 37.5% depending on the proc rate chosen (66% and 50%
respectively) which seems very low to me, for a point of reference at that level
of command blocking it would take 9 attempts before the chance of not succeeding
to cure would drop below 10% which means that depending on RNG you could lock
someone in aeon for a significant amount of time with that setup (although I
don't know how soloable that setup is). Solution 3 with a 0.5s delay sounds okay
to me, since that would strictly be a buff outside of aeon which is less scary
imo.
---[Raeri on 10/21 @ 12:35 writes]:
I have to say the comments above regarding Sol 2 puzzle me. You're essentially
saying a proposed 50% to block dust/slush which doesn't consume cure balance is
too much, but at the same time 50% chance to block these balances *and* consume
the cure balance is perfectly okay. As a comparison, given that both slush and
dust are at 1s or above, the Minstrelry report where these numbers are currently
being supported is the equivalent of my Solution 2 but with the added bonus of
the target's curing of asthma/stupidity being kept under an aeon-esque delay
pressure permanently. That said, I'd prefer to move towards either Sol 2 or 3
over Sol 1, as I really would like to move Starhymn away from the aeon focus
(see pfarewell change).
---[Synkarin on 10/21 @ 13:17 writes]:
@Raeri - it's not a straight 50% buff I'm asking for to block dust/slush but a
50% with diminishing effectiveness. The other solution I'm presenting is 50% for
just slush and bard steam affs. You're asking for 50-66% effectiveness for the 2
most immediate aeon cure blocking afflictions where I'm asking for slush balance
(not even the most immediate block) at 50% all the time. For the record, my
solution 2 is the one being supported (slush/bard steam affs at 50%), not
dust+slush+bard steam affs. I'm willing to support Recessional affect steam affs
except aeon at 33% effectiveness, is that really too much to compromise on?
---[Raeri on 10/22 @ 01:06 writes]:
Hmm. I could see going with something like having Solution 1 (without affecting
aeon) but with a small effect upon successfully blocking curing or something,
like in a hybrid of the current Sol1+3? - I kind of just want dissuade command
stacking from making it completely useless. What're your views on adding non-
aeon steam affs via Sol 1 at 33% and causing a damage tick of some sort to the
target upon blocking the cure?
---[Wobou on 10/22 @ 16:43 writes]:
My main issue is the spread between so many balances, the jitterbug report asks
for essentially 2.5 balances (of our four overhaul total) which I'll admit I
misread when I supported it and have added another comment to it. This report
(in sol 1) is asking for three balances of the four (lucidity, dust, and steam),
due to the lack of cd (in all solutions except 3) it won't impact people really
outside of aeon/sap which is why I've focused on that. I'd rather this ability
impact one subset of cures (like steam) and pushed the balance by 0.5-0.75s so
that it actually did something outside of aeon but couldn't be used in
combination with an asthma source to keep someone in aeon for a long period of
time.
---[Shuyin on 10/22 @ 17:44 writes]:
1 is fine
---[Synkarin on 10/22 @ 18:41 writes]:
What kind of damage are we talking about? I could get behind that if it's not
too extreme.
---[Wobou on 10/23 @ 06:24 writes]:
Oops I missed a comment in here. Damage on proc works for me as long as it's not
too high.
---[Raeri on 10/24 @ 11:27 writes]:
I was thinking somewhere in the region of 5 to 7.5%.
---[Synkarin on 10/27 @ 00:16 writes]:
I'm done with 5%
---[Wobou on 11/3 @ 13:09 writes]:
I think 5% is okay, I dislike the idea that if someone is really super unlucky
they could kill themselves with that even without spamming but we can always
tweak that number later. I don't believe I've weighed in on the solutions since
you reworked them. I personally would like to see solution 3 with damage as the
drawback, I would however not like it combined with either solution 1 (because I
feel that eating/drinking/smoking is too many curative actions for one skill to
cover) or solution 2 which I feel gives too high of a proc rate.