139060-suggestion-regarding-need-or-roll-people-always-press-need

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Hey everyone, Well each time i play dungeons i go with some group using queue, Now what is annoying the most is when you go playing and everyone press NEED for everything EVEN if that ITEMS is not meant to be for that person he do click NEED and its annoying when that item is meant to be yours as a tank and the person who got it cant use it or he really dont need it at all.
 
I once was with some people and a person had an item for support and i asked him if i can buy it from him, He was like MUHAHAHAHA i got it first noob i will sell it using shops because i win.. <<< Troll is real its like a game who can win this specific item.
 
Maybe the tank or the healer should get the most valuable item because i think they are the only 2 important players who can keep everyone safe..
 
There should be more improving i guess..
			
				
	Edited October 8, 2015 by Ayman	
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			Unfortunately any type of loot system will have its exploitable avenues.  It sucks to lose out on gear to someone that's not even performing the same role as you, but a lot of the time you just have to bite the bullet and deal with it.	
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You can't roll Need for an Item that your class can't use.
As a Stalker I can't roll need for a Heavy Armor or Light Armor, but a DPS rolling Need on a Support Item for his Class, sadly you can't prevent it.
 
If they do something like you're saying, Heal and Tank players will roll for DPS items just because they have advantage in the roll, the problem will be the same, or even worse.
			
				
	Edited October 8, 2015 by BakuDM	
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Unfortunately any type of loot system will have its exploitable avenues.  It sucks to lose out on gear to someone that's not even performing the same role as you, but a lot of the time you just have to bite the bullet and deal with it.
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			My least favourite mmo legacy, the loot and the way it gets given out. It leaves open the doors to abuse such as you have mentioned Ayman, an ideal made in a better more respectful era now defunct with the likes of mass mmo’s and F2P models. For some players and devs it the only way they can think, and to be fair, from my limited knowledge, a shout out to the Theory Forge crew http://www.twitch.tv/theoryforgefor expanding my mind on the topic, it’s not a simple issue to handle, but it can be done with the right gusto and imagination.	
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Unfortunately any type of loot system will have its exploitable avenues.  It sucks to lose out on gear to someone that's not even performing the same role as you, but a lot of the time you just have to bite the bullet and deal with it.
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			A quick fix - if you 'Need' on an item, it becomes soulbound. That way, at least people can't 'steal' BoE items for the AH. I reckon that's the biggest motivation for 'need'ing on gear you don't intend to use.	
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Well i do play with some old people and they do know how to use the loot system but now mostly everyone is new and almost its just need for everything without knowing what roll he is going to play, Just because the item is Blue then hell its NEED for all..
 
But as a tank, I get the most dmg and try hard to keep everyone safe yet its hard to give nice reward for the effort
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			I have noticed this a lot as well.  Several people have need rolled on literally everything they can, from crafting mats to gear.  Weighted rolls based on the role you queue as would help.  Or hell, even limiting off-spec rolls to greed-only.  Yeah, it's a huge PITA, I've lost out on several upgrades to my main role to people rolling for their off-spec, but this is a low-priority issue.  Plus I suspect the problem will somewhat alleviate itself as I progress further and also as a lot of the looky-loos quit.  Generally people selfish enough to screw over party members don't stick around long.	
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In WoW people roll Need on Tier Tokens that they already have just to sell it for someone in the same Raid Group that wants it.
 
Personal Loot would be cool, like GW2, but Carbine wants to see Blood, Blood and Glory. :p	
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Hey everyone, Well each time i play dungeons i go with some group using queue, Now what is annoying the most is when you go playing and everyone press NEED for everything EVEN if that ITEMS is not meant to be for that person he do click NEED and its annoying when that item is meant to be yours as a tank and the person who got it cant use it or he really dont need it at all.
 
I once was with some people and a person had an item for support and i asked him if i can buy it from him, He was like MUHAHAHAHA i got it first noob i will sell it using shops because i win.. <<< Troll is real its like a game who can win this specific item.
 
Maybe the tank or the healer should get the most valuable item because i think they are the only 2 important players who can keep everyone safe..
 
There should be more improving i guess..
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It's very common that people need on everything, because "everyone else is doing it". It's like an unwritten rule in Adventures/Dungeons/etcetera. It's a really shitty attitude to have, to be honest. I always wait to see what the rest of the group choose in the beginning. If I notice that someone is starting to hog a bit too much stuff, I ask them to stop or else the player will be relieved from the group. Because that is a reason to kick people, in my mind. If you run with a friend or two, it's easier to control.
 
It's annoying and ignorant. The greed is out there, for sure. Guilds are not cleared from it either. The loot whoring among people can be quite high there as well. But it's an attitude problem, and attitudes can change.	
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It's very common that people need on everything, because "everyone else is doing it". It's like an unwritten rule in Adventures/Dungeons/etcetera. It's a really shitty attitude to have, to be honest. I always wait to see what the rest of the group choose in the beginning. If I notice that someone is starting to hog a bit too much stuff, I ask them to stop or else the player will be relieved from the group. Because that is a reason to kick people, in my mind. If you run with a friend or two, it's easier to control.
 
It's annoying and ignorant. The greed is out there, for sure. Guilds are not cleared from it either. The loot whoring among people can be quite high there as well. But it's an attitude problem, and attitudes can change.
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It's very common that people need on everything, because "everyone else is doing it".
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I've always been one for utilizing your ability to communicate with the community in order to make your game experience better, as opposed to getting randoms in a queue who may loot for anything. Instead of putting this on the developers of the game to give you limitless options you should take advantage of this being an MMO and team up with some other people instead of trying to solo the game. Please leave the instant gratification to single player games.
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Maybe the tank or the healer should get the most valuable item because i think they are the only 2 important players who can keep everyone safe..
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I know right? I used to pass on loot that I perceive as "they need it more than I do", or items that are of no use to me, like tarnished eldan gifts, orange imbue thingamajig.
 
Then I was actually told to 'stop passing on things. If you don't want it, give it to me.'  >_>
 
Attitudes can change? Dude! It's easier to move mountains than to change someone's attitude. Haven't you heard of that phrase? :P
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Well i do play with some old people and they do know how to use the loot system but now mostly everyone is new and almost its just need for everything without knowing what roll he is going to play, Just because the item is Blue then hell its NEED for all..
 
But as a tank, I get the most dmg and try hard to keep everyone safe yet its hard to give nice reward for the effort
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Just because someone is a tank or healer does not make them MORE deserving of a reward. That said people should not need on stuff they are not going to use. Unfortunately short of going 100% to personal loot there is no way to people from needing on anything they are able to need on for their vendor spec. This is has been true in pretty much every game I have played.
 
My basic way of playing is I will need on what I am going to use. If I see other players needing on everything in that run then I will start needing on everything myself just so they don't automatically get everything.
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You can't roll Need for an Item that your class can't use.
As a Stalker I can't roll need for a Heavy Armor or Light Armor, but a DPS rolling Need on a Support Item for his Class, sadly you can't prevent it.
 
If they do something like you're saying, Heal and Tank players will roll for DPS items just because they have advantage in the roll, the problem will be the same, or even worse.
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You are wrong, YOU CAN roll need if you are both warriors and you can use it, even if you played as DPS and the item is for TANK you can press NEED, that heavy BS right there, NEED should be ONLY for the role you played.
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I didnt mean it that tank and healer have to deserve more but maybe something to be fair because of the way how some players being so greedy that do NEED everything without giving one single care about the other person who need that item so badly
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I tend to find that in any game, if you actually care about the loot (and we all do to a point) then talking about it before stuff drops can alleviate this problem.
 
Or realize that not everyone feels that "need or greed" means "spec or offspec". Maybe "need" to me means "for my character to use" and "greed" means "to sell/scrap/whatever".
 
Now, I concur, if you're a dps and you dont state at the start "hey do you mind if I roll on support gear" then you are kind of a jerk, but yeah. Technically that is "need"ing the item.	
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Personal loot? Where's the Fun in That?!
 
After ah hour of wiping and completing the dungeon people need just another reason to hate each other. Right? :rolleyes:	
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I have a slightly differing opinion on this.
 
I always queue as dps or tank (helaer with my old main). Guess what I always end up being the tank. If I followed your rules and only rolled on tank items I would never be able to get a decent dps set. A set I use for dailies, expeditions and a bunch of other content.
 
I don't feel I should have to sit in a long queue in order to obtain dps items. By being prepared to tank I'm doing everyone in the group a favour as tank is usually the most required role.
 
Now I can see why this scenario is annoying when a dps rolls on support gear as they aren't taking up the less common roles. However I can't expect to have different rules for dps and support so I don't complain.
 
Rolling need on an item that is not an upgrade however is unacceptable. Similarly rolling need on support items if you never use them isn't really acceptable but you never really know if this is the case or not.	
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I've seen people need on things that should have been greeded.  Sucks for me too because I'm one of those very honest folks who rolls greed on things i'd like to have but don't need...probably because it's a throwback to my Vanilla WoW days where most people did that and if they didnt, they were bashed by the majority of the community until they were blacklisted from going on runs with people lol.Or at least that's how my particular realm worked xD
 
The upside is if the item is class specific, people of other classes cant roll on it, like the types of gear (medium, heavy, light) or guns.  If it's anything else, just be prepared to hit need.  Unfortunately, it doesn't take into account support vs assault so if you've got someone who is of the same class as you and different role, good luck if you need that item :(	
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I agree with many others. I queue as DPS and Tank/Heal as well, and I will need on items that I'm going to use, regardless class I'm playing at the time. Not sell. Use. Limiting loot for the class your playing is narrow minded. Some do play only one spec though, so it works for them.
 
The logic is pretty straightforward and simple. Is the item going to be used? If Yes, then Need is ok. Anything else is Greed really.
			
				
	Edited October 9, 2015 by Alysion	
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I agree with many others. I queue as DPS and Tank/Heal as well, and I will need on items that I'm going to use, regardless class I'm playing at the time. Not sell. Use. Limiting loot for the class your playing is narrow minded. Some do play only one spec though, so it works for them.
 
The logic is pretty straightforward and simple. Is the item going to be used? If Yes, then Need is ok. Anything else is Greed really.
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I have a slightly differing opinion on this.
 
I always queue as dps or tank (helaer with my old main). Guess what I always end up being the tank. If I followed your rules and only rolled on tank items I would never be able to get a decent dps set. A set I use for dailies, expeditions and a bunch of other content.
 
I don't feel I should have to sit in a long queue in order to obtain dps items. By being prepared to tank I'm doing everyone in the group a favour as tank is usually the most required role.
 
Now I can see why this scenario is annoying when a dps rolls on support gear as they aren't taking up the less common roles. However I can't expect to have different rules for dps and support so I don't complain.
 
Rolling need on an item that is not an upgrade however is unacceptable. Similarly rolling need on support items if you never use them isn't really acceptable but you never really know if this is the case or not.
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Often people will be going into dungeons as dps to gear up to tank in the immediate future and vice versa ... but yes asking for the right to role on an item that you are not in the role for now is always best 
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Hey everyone, Well each time i play dungeons i go with some group using queue, Now what is annoying the most is when you go playing and everyone press NEED for everything EVEN if that ITEMS is not meant to be for that person he do click NEED and its annoying when that item is meant to be yours as a tank and the person who got it cant use it or he really dont need it at all.
 
I once was with some people and a person had an item for support and i asked him if i can buy it from him, He was like MUHAHAHAHA i got it first noob i will sell it using shops because i win.. <<< Troll is real its like a game who can win this specific item.
 
Maybe the tank or the healer should get the most valuable item because i think they are the only 2 important players who can keep everyone safe..
 
There should be more improving i guess..
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I've always hated this mentality.
 
If you're a tank, you shouldn't roll on DPS gear that somebody else needs.  If there's no one else that can use that dps gear?  Fine then, take it.  If the dps that can use it doesn't roll need on it?  Take it.  If they roll need on it, maybe at least ASK if you can roll since you want to keep a dps set going for your own reasons.
 
If you can't put up with DPS queue times you don't get to use your filling a vital role as justification to take gear that somebody else needs.  You being the tank or the healer doesn't give you first dibs just because you volunteered for that role.
 
In a perfect world people would only role need on things that they immediately need (i.e. this item is an immediate upgrade for what I am doing right now) and in the case that they need it for what they are not immediately doing they understand that their need in that circumstance is secondary.  Need before greed is as imperfect a loot system as anything else and the flaws inherent to it all lie in player mentality.
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No one will understand that especially now there is alot of new people coming day by day.
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It wasn't an issue in older games because there was no group finder.
 
Groups were made by people on your server and if you had a bad reputation, people wouldn't take you. On games like DAoC, Everquest, Lineage and a few others, people had to quit the game because they had dug themselves into a pit and couldn't get out. Once you had a bad reputation your progress stopped, no one wanted you.
 
Now, group finder, doesn't matter what you do you will always find a group.
 
And now I shall repeat what I say to everyone who complains about group content ..... never, EVER, pug. Don't join random groups, find some more friends or a guild and only group with them. You won't have any of those problems and you won't have to deal with the social pariahs that group finder spawns.	
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It wasn't an issue in older games because there was no group finder.
 
Groups were made by people on your server and if you had a bad reputation, people wouldn't take you. On games like DAoC, Everquest, Lineage and a few others, people had to quit the game because they had dug themselves into a pit and couldn't get out. Once you had a bad reputation your progress stopped, no one wanted you.
 
Now, group finder, doesn't matter what you do you will always find a group.
 
And now I shall repeat what I say to everyone who complains about group content ..... never, EVER, pug. Don't join random groups, find some more friends or a guild and only group with them. You won't have any of those problems and you won't have to deal with the social pariahs that group finder spawns.
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			I have gotten to the point where I just wait and see what others do with the first drop. If people need then i do too all run. If not then I greed. But for most pug runs its need on everything otherwise you get nothing	
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			Except for games where there's some kind of lockout, it seems typical for PUG's to click Need whenever they can. That's just the way it is. :(	
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In PUGs, I also follow the philosophy of Greed on everything except something I will genuinely use. I will even Pass on gear that my character can't use to give others a better chance at it.
 
One thing to look out for in PUGs is the 'late' Needer. This is the jerk that waits to see everyone roll Greed and then hits Need - an especially devious type common in F2P PUGs.
 
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u cant be grouped with people on your ignore list ... so there is that atleast
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			i never liked the need or greed system. it makes the people who do not get a roll feel screwed. if i put as much time and effort into a run, i want to be rewarded for it, not have to compete with the people i just played with for the prize	
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DPS is not as "unimportant" in this game as in other MMOs.
 
A good DPS can do a lot more for a dungeon run with a competent tank/healer than a good tank/healer can do with 3 competent DPS.
 
 
(Which doesn't solve your original problem- but in this game the skill of the dps matters quite a bit).
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Just a question that i am wondering about.
 
What happens if said dps which is very good cant dodge even a single red zone.
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I've always hated this mentality.
 
If you're a tank, you shouldn't roll on DPS gear that somebody else needs.  If there's no one else that can use that dps gear?  Fine then, take it.  If the dps that can use it doesn't roll need on it?  Take it.  If they roll need on it, maybe at least ASK if you can roll since you want to keep a dps set going for your own reasons.
 
If you can't put up with DPS queue times you don't get to use your filling a vital role as justification to take gear that somebody else needs.  You being the tank or the healer doesn't give you first dibs just because you volunteered for that role.
 
In a perfect world people would only role need on things that they immediately need (i.e. this item is an immediate upgrade for what I am doing right now) and in the case that they need it for what they are not immediately doing they understand that their need in that circumstance is secondary.  Need before greed is as imperfect a loot system as anything else and the flaws inherent to it all lie in player mentality.
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But you don't take the next problem into consideration. The extra long queues for dps shouldn't have to be a punishment. It's good if dps choose to queue as tank and healer as well, because it evens out the queues and it'll be faster for everyone in the long run. That's something that should be encouraged. It'll mean way less time in queues, everyone get a taste of the other perspective and hopefully a better understanding of it as well which Will improve their other role because of it. I'm a firm believe that a player that understand how and why you move and do as you do being a tank or healer, will be a much better dps as well. Because you understand fights in a much better and detailed way.
So short story, wanna be a better dps? Tank and/or Heal some at times.
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Right now queue times are so short that I'm not concerned. So I lose a roll for that item over there. I can just requeue and maybe win it the next time.
 
Very specific pieces of gear won't matter until raiding time - and if you're raiding in a PUG with loot rolls... you're not even going to make it to the loot roll anyway.
 
 
I will also repeat a point I made constantly before F2P hit: Unless you're in a raid - always queue for BOTH roles.
 
Before F2P, DPS had the best queue times here. Too many people from other MMOs presumed that to beat the queue you needed to join everything as either tank or heal spec, or in a tank/healer pair. If the entire game had 6 people queuing for content... four of them queued only as tank or heal... and I logged in as number 7, my queue was instant and I'd pop in as DPS. More often I was one of the two that queued as DPS or as DPS+Support... and some third DPSer got an instant queue.
- and most of the time I PUG'd, I ended up using my DPS spec as a result.
 
Now its a bit more full out there, but the people queueing both specs will still win the queue timer.
			
				
	Edited October 9, 2015 by Kichwas	
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