123817-investment-firm-sees-a-dark-future-for-wildstar

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Korean investment firm KDB Daewoo Securities is not predicting a rosy future for WildStar, although it still is recommending NCsoft as a “buy” prospect. The firm sees WildStar dropping to $585,000 in revenue per month, with a year-over-year drop of 91.1% from its launch last year.
 
The good news is that the firm forecasts NCsoft’s revenue increasing in the first quarter, helped by a jump in Lineage microtransaction sales. Guild Wars 2 is expected to be a financial boon when the expansion releases in the anticipated second quarter. The firm says that 4.6M copies of the fantasy title have been sold so far.
 
The firm also noted that shareholders are “vying for control” of the publisher, particularly referring to Nexon’s involvement as of late.
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			Unless Daewoo has some insider info it just seems like they phoned this research in based on pre-1Q15 results.  Think I'll let my investment manager know that a large chunk salt will be required before reading their publications.	
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[source : http://massivelyop.net/2015/03/16/investment-firm-sees-a-dark-future-for-wildstar-bright-hopes-for-guild-wars-2/]
 
Wait & See. This are just predictions ofc.
 
We can hope for the future, but we don't know if there is one  :wacko:
 
 
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Right, the largest Korean investment firm in existence uses a fly-by-night system of voodoo magic and hate to conjure up magical nonsense numbers.
 
FYI, Daewoo's numbers for Wildstar in particular have actually skewed higher than the actual following results. So going by the trend, these numbers might actually be generous.	
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the future is f2p/hybrid.
coming drop 6 ! (or maybe 5)
 
as much as i would LOVE the population to suddenly quadruple so that the game does enough revenue. chances are; it won't happen.
hence why the "forecast".	
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Unless Daewoo has some insider info it just seems like they phoned this research in based on pre-1Q15 results.  Think I'll let my investment manager know that a large chunk salt will be required before reading their publications.
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Here comes Avatar! Aka "get ready to get milked" RIP thread. I much prefer the caretaker.
 
We get it, you love F2P, tone it down please.	
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			Hardly a surprise that an investment. Firm sees a downward trend where the is one. It's all based on historical figures and regular revenue/sales. If people worried less about investors and kept to being customers nothing would really be all that bad. If you look hard enough you find the Dangers you seek.	
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Hardly a surprise that an investment. Firm sees a downward trend where the is one. It's all based on historical figures and regular revenue/sales. If people worried less about investors and kept to being customers nothing would really be all that bad. If you look hard enough you find the Dangers you seek.
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Every few days - new posts of doom/gloom/f2p plx
Every new post about Wildstar from gaming websites - more doom/gloom/f2p plx
Every comment section outside of Wildstar forums - more doom/gloom/f2p plx
 
See the trend?
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Smack into reality. 
 
Money runs this world, especially the gaming industry. If you ain't keeping up, then you are going to get cut. 
 
(RIP COH and TABAULA RASA)
 
A spiraling downward trend for Wildstar. 
 
Every few days - new posts of doom/gloom/f2p plx
Every new post about Wildstar from gaming websites - more doom/gloom/f2p plx
Every comment section outside of Wildstar forums - more doom/gloom/f2p plx
 
See the trend?
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the game brought it upon itself. it was too small of a world and missed ton of content at endgame. not even considering all the design issues it had.
so basically everybody arrived at endgame and started to quit for different reasons but most probably; too difficult i don't feel like taking the challenge, too time demanding to raid or pvp is broken.
 
now the game is in a "decent" place. it is still a small game by AAA standards, but the system flows well.
it is a great level up experience for many people and the endgame progression is smoother and pvp gear is not locked behind ratings.
with the addition of dailies and grind/farm i am about certain if the game would have launched as it is now it would have had a different (much better) faith).
 
but.. nothing can change the past.
what is done is done.
and only a tiny amount of people will actually give it a second chance unless it is free.
even with a trial, people check it out again, queues are not poping and world is half empty. that doesn't help either.
wildstar needs a BURST influx of players.
 
i would be surprised, and very much in awe if NcSoft and Carbine decide that they are ok with their current number of players and will settle on a P2P future with possibly a slow and steady player growth.
not saying it won't happen... but i'm putting my money on a change of business model.
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i would be surprised, and very much in awe if NcSoft and Carbine decide that they are ok with their current number of players and will settle on a P2P future with possibly a slow and steady player growth.
not saying it won't happen... but i'm putting my money on a change of business model.
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A spiraling downward trend for Wildstar. 
 
Every few days - new posts of doom/gloom/f2p plx
Every new post about Wildstar from gaming websites - more doom/gloom/f2p plx
Every comment section outside of Wildstar forums - more doom/gloom/f2p plx
 
See the trend?
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Yeah, I do.  It's really damn annoying.  Instead of talking the game up and trying to give it new life, all people seem to be interested in doing is bitching about how it's dying and begging for F2P.
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It's mostly the same people too. It seems like the "cool" thing to do at the moment.
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Game will absolutely go F2P with cash shop and option to sub, just like Aion did(which is now a successful game with huge pop btw) .
 
NcSoft will not allow it to continue to run in the current state. 
 
Fanboi's in denial need to wake up.	
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Game will absolutely go F2P with cash shop and option to sub, just like Aion did(which is now a successful game with huge pop btw) .
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Every few days - new posts of doom/gloom/f2p plx
Every new post about Wildstar from gaming websites - more doom/gloom/f2p plx
Every comment section outside of Wildstar forums - more doom/gloom/f2p plx
 
See the trend?
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Right, the largest Korean investment firm in existence uses a fly-by-night system of voodoo magic and hate to conjure up magical nonsense numbers.
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Yep... the trend is that this same garbage happens to EVERY game out there. People have been predicting the demise of basically every game out there since WOW came out, and even WOW gets hit too. Don't you know, this is the internet. It's cool to come up with the most creative way to say "I didn't like this game" and to scream to the masses that the game is dying and you shouldn't play.
 
I mean, if I listened to everything I read in the comments section of gaming web sites, I wouldn't have any games to play.
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Game will absolutely go F2P with cash shop and option to sub, just like Aion did(which is now a successful game with huge pop btw) .
 
NcSoft will not allow it to continue to run in the current state. 
 
Fanboi's in denial need to wake up.
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Guys the game is dying because i say so cus im psychic, I dont need any proof its ded not like all the other games out there that have 10billion people on ONE SEREVR and nobody people hating on them every day too
I pay a sub to come and moan on the forums cus i think thats reeeely good feedback to crabeneie and derail any fun ppl are talkin bout cus im saltier than the sea lolololol any1 who disagreez is a FANBOI and needs 2 WAKE UP 2 RELALITY
 
oh btw games ded going f2p lololol	
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Guys the game is dying because i say so cus im psychic, I dont need any proof its ded not like all the other games out there that have 10billion people on ONE SEREVR and nobody people hating on them every day too
I pay a sub to come and moan on the forums cus i think thats reeeely good feedback to crabeneie and derail any fun ppl are talkin bout cus im saltier than the sea lolololol any1 who disagreez is a FANBOI and needs 2 WAKE UP 2 RELALITY
 
oh btw games ded going f2p lololol
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well don't worry. A lot of people that do doom and gloom will feel insulted about their opinions and suggestions not being taken into consideration and will leave. The same as people here with trial accounts expressing concerns. The problem is that that doesn't exactly help the game.
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The thing is that when this game started to hemorrhage subs, people were coming to the forums and saying what they did and didn't like, and Carbine is I think doing their best to address the issues.  Unless the folks at Carbine are sitting over there twirling their evil mustaches and wanting the game to fail (they could but who would want something you put so much effort in to fail?) then I would assume that they're doing what they can.  The thing that people are getting tired of hearing over and over and over again is that the game needs to go F2P.  Yes we heard it, it hasn't happened yet.  Will it?  I'd say it's 50/50 right now, but I'm not a Carbine insider or employee.  We're just sick of hearing that it needs to change to F2P or B2P.  That is the dead horse people are talking about.
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I'm more worried about the game shutting down. If they estimate 500 000$ loss a month after Ncsoft funded the game for 10 years... I'm surprised that they're giving as much space to Carbine as they're doing. That's also the worries that I hear from my guild. That the game will just shut down.
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And you are not alone.  That's a valid fear.  I think it's safe to say that a lot of people playing the game do not want it shut down.  NCSoft and Carbine have a lot more internals than we can speculate on and I'm sure they have a plan.  We're just not privy to it and that's making everyone worried.
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We've heard your concerns, but literally any positive thread is ruined by this shitty attitude and I'm bored and sick of it.
 
New people are posting every day saying they are playing and having fun, and even in those threads we have doom and gloom. Jesus christ just give it a break.	
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well don't worry. A lot of people that do doom and gloom will feel insulted about their opinions and suggestions not being taken into consideration and will leave. The same as people here with trial accounts expressing concerns. The problem is that that doesn't exactly help the game.
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Actually I believe it would help the game.
 
No doom and gloom posts in general, all doom and gloom people leaving, might actually help new players retention instead of risking them being influenced by the posts with bait titles, and well general doom and gloom behaviour of some.
 
As for the F2P system, while it used to save companies (because it's only companies, it never have saved games : they just became shadows of their old selves, each and every one of them) it's starting to not save them anymore... F2P used to be a trend a few years ago, the savior of MMOs, it's not anymore. 
 
Also the general percentage of revenues from people using cash shops, well the last numbers i've heard, are around 7% (of people actually paying vs 93% playing for free and never using the cash shop), in average in mmos... What that means is you roughly need to multiply your player population in the ball park of x15 just to get even with the old sub method. And go in the x20, x30 if not x50 to make the F2P transition successfull...
 
Also when people *really* realize they can play for free by using CREDD then these forum wiill become a better place. And ANYWAY those that say they don't have the time to make enough plat and would prefer F2P instead are the same old freeloaders that wouldn't pay a cent if the game became F2P...
 
If all you want is F2P : go play a F2P game...
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people arent on the forums, the ones who post are very few, myself have bring to nexus like 25 new players in the last months, some stay, some leave, but just like 1 or 2 of them come to see the forums, the ones whos stay are happy playing and dont care about financial reports, the ones who leave dont minded the low population cause with friends they had the perfect population to do any of the  content they wanted, i even must had run academy like 30 times since it appeared on live and other ton more fragment zero regular.
 
i even made some friends with people on celestion and galeras when i made a pug for academy, they dont mind any of these things they just play and if they like the gameplay they will stay.	
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well after years and years after the unsuccessful start Tera, Rift, even SWOTR are still alive. And that's what counts. Heck I would even say that Tera is doing very well considering that it's one of the top most popular MMOs. F2P saved them. [...]
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Hoping for good Q1 report. Else... Anything > game shutting down in my opinion.
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Reading comprehension ftw... F2P has *never* saved any game, it only has saved companies. 
 
I can speak about SWTOR because I saw the changes : the game became a shadow of what it could have been : most of the dev force was moved to create cash shop content, when I left the game there hadn't been any class specific voiced storyline for months : THIS was the very core of the game, what it was heavily advertised before launch to be and always be...
 
And there are other examples of other MMOs I've played who have transitioned to F2P : each and every one of them became a shadow of their former self, EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM.
 
Wildstar can be played FOR FREE by giving plats to get CREDD : what's so difficult to understand ???  :wacko:
 
But no... People want it for free AND at the same time not give back, those are the same people that will never really get invested into anything, into a guild, into a website, into a community, you name it... Most of this population will flock to the next shiny hyped game, and there, will trash and insult Wildstar, Most of this population is toxic in zone chat, is insulting and making fun of roleplayers : 
 
Thanks but NO THANKS !  :angry:
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I don't think a shutdown is on the table.
 
Donatelli had a meeting with the execs at NCSoft just a few months ago (when the game's population was at its lowest) in which they discussed the status of the game as well as Carbine's plans for the future. NCSoft assured him that they fully support Wildstar and intend to continue that support for the long haul.
 
There was no mention of shutdowns or payment model changes.
 
 
One must realize that the majority of the doomsaying going on is simply internet hyperbole and tinfoil hatting perpetuated by folk who only have vague, outdated quarterly revenue reports with which to base their assertions.
 
My recommendation is to play the game, have fun, and leave the numbers to Carbine/NCSoft.
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It only released in summer, what do you expect for it to still have launch population? Of course it's not going to.
 
Carbine made their mistakes (look at the two servers that are dead) and it cost them, but now they're on the up again you guys come in and are constantly beating down the constant changes they are trying to make?
Why keep crying for f2p when you are NOT PART OF THE COMPANY, you have no knowledge of numbers, no idea what is happening at carbine/ncsoft, not psychic and are just bitter and wanting things for free.
 
If you wanted to support this game, you'd be like the majority of the posters on this forum. Aware of the downfalls, very very aware of the bad parts of the games and the possible outcomes. But not spewing them constantly as gospel truth. WE DON'T KNOW what will happen in the future, we do not know whether the game will change pay models, but at the moment it isn't and that is all that matters.
 
Instead of me hating on carbine for killing my server (which the whole guild is still annoyed about), we concentrated on the fact they wanted to fix pve first, then pvp and they are making changes already that has seen a positive influx of OVER 30 NEW PLAYERS (almost half of them are very near to 50) in our guild over the last 2 weeks ONLY who are enjoying the game and have NEVER set foot on the forums (for lack of knowledge of there being one)
The game has life left in it, so much life left in it... it hasn't even reached ONE YEAR OF LIFE and people are dooming and glooming it.
 
I remember when WoW came out, EQ fanbois were laughing and said that lame game would never be successful. Look at it now. And god did that game go through some mistakes or a million.
 
Just chill out and enjoy the game.	
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It's nice that you can farm CREDD. It really is. Now tell that to Q4 profit reports. Tell that to this company. Tell that to Ncsoft.... [...]
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While I think that DDO did actually improve with its model (the departure from D&D had already begun), it was more of a hybrid system of subscriber and F2P.  I really enjoyed that model as I remained a subscriber for years, only going F2P when I was really burnt out on the game.
 
Wildstar already has an option to play free though (CREDD) and I am boggled by why people still *cupcake* about subscriptions when you can actually farm the money to play for free via the credd system.  It actually uses the normal in game currency vs some of the various F2P bajillion different currencies in a single game.  (Gold for the actual game, Some other one for item shop, another for play time, better shop = different currency, etc.).  
 
Now I do think that Wildstar could POSSIBLY benefit from a cash shop for vanity items and such.  From what I remember reading those tended to add some nice dollars into a game.  As long as the shop is not a pay to win shop I doubt there would be much bitching about it.  Costume pieces for a few dollars, entire costumes, new hair styles, skin and hair colors, etc.  all that could be monetized and there are plenty of players who would spend on that stuff thus generating cash influx while the people who do not want that stuff can simply opt out of it.
 
The shame is that Wildstar is really an AWESOME game.  It has fantastic gameplay, cool ass housing, fun setting, lore, etc.  Sure they are bugs, imbalance issues, etc. but EVERY game has those.  What wildstar has is quite special and I really hope it keeps on going.	
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 But maybe their analysts, TOO, have seen that F2P wasn't the savior of companies anymore...
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It's nice that you can farm CREDD. It really is. Now tell that to Q4 profit reports. Tell that to this company. Tell that to Ncsoft that invested into this game for 10 years only not to get even 1/10th of that back. 
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			Sure, CREDD is money for Carbine. But it's also front loaded. How much CREDD purchased in December or earlier is still on the market? If there's a bunch of front loaded CREDD in the market for the population to feed on, the ongoing revenue goes down. 	
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Sure, CREDD is money for Carbine. But it's also front loaded. How much CREDD purchased in December or earlier is still on the market? If there's a bunch of front loaded CREDD in the market for the population to feed on, the ongoing revenue goes down. 
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			CREDD purchased before January is considered revenue for the 4th quarter. If CREDD lingers on the market and is picked at little by little, people who would normally be paying suddently aren't. If CREDD purchases slow during Q1, then now you've got last quarter's CREDD supplying time to people in Q1 and beyond. 	
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Reading comprehension ftw... F2P has *never* saved any game, it only has saved companies. 
 
I can speak about SWTOR because I saw the changes : the game became a shadow of what it could have been : most of the dev force was moved to create cash shop content, when I left the game there hadn't been any class specific voiced storyline for months : THIS was the very core of the game, what it was heavily advertised before launch to be and always be...
 
And there are other examples of other MMOs I've played who have transitioned to F2P : each and every one of them became a shadow of their former self, EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM.
 
Wildstar can be played FOR FREE by giving plats to get CREDD : what's so difficult to understand ???  :wacko:
 
But no... People want it for free AND at the same time not give back, those are the same people that will never really get invested into anything, into a guild, into a website, into a community, you name it... Most of this population will flock to the next shiny hyped game, and there, will trash and insult Wildstar, Most of this population is toxic in zone chat, is insulting and making fun of roleplayers : 
 
Thanks but NO THANKS !  :angry:
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And here we have yet another reason why Carbine really needs to do a "Flick:  CREDD" video.  More and more people have no idea how CREDD works, thinking that it's flat out losing Carbine money.
CREDD tokens are not crapped out of thin air by some token server when someone ponies up 15 plat.  They MUST be purchased by players for $20.  Read again: Twenty real-world dollars must be given to Carbine to generate a CREDD token.  This also must be purchased by someone with an active sub, meaning that that person has already paid their $15 for the month.  Whether or not one person buys that CREDD or they purchase another month with it, Carbine makes a profit.
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Which game died as fast as it was dying after going F2P? [...]
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They *all* did : they all became shadows of what they could have been. Only the companies didn't die. 
 
 
 
 
It's not life : it's life-support...
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I play some of them and I quite like them. If Wildstar was to close down, should they take my word, the word of possible future F2P customers, or your word, the word of a person that wants the game to die instead?
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And mine won't either.
 
 
People, you don't understand that WildStar isn't going F2P because it can already be played for free with CREDD and whether CREDD works or not : why would F2P work better ? 
 
You guys are asking for something that already IS in game, then you're saying it doesn't work : if it doesn't work with CREDD why would it work as F2P ?
Oh yeah... For the convenience of people who don't want to give back, who don't want to be invested... Again, those people : 
 
Thanks BUT NO THANKS !
 
People arguing for F2P have no standards in game qualities and push their desire of not paying over the quality of the game they play : what they want above all else is to not pay, they don't care that the quality would lessen, not only for them but for all those that are happy to sub...
 
Yeah... NO !	
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And mine won't either. 
 
People, you don't understand that WildStar isn't going F2P because it can already be played for free with CREDD and whether CREDD works or not : why would F2P work better ? 
 
You guys are asking for something that already IS in game, then you're saying it doesn't work : if it doesn't work with CREDD why would it work as F2P ?
Oh yeah... For the convenience of people who don't want to give back, who don't want to be invested... Again, those people : 
 
Thanks BUT NO THANKS !
 
People arguing for F2P have no standards in game qualities and push their desire of not paying over the quality of the game they play : what they want above all else is to not pay, they don't care that the quality would lessen, not only for them but for all those that are happy to sub...
 
Yeah... NO !
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[...]
 
And to be honest I've seen better quality in games in both B2P and F2P than Wildstar by now,
 
[...]
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And to be honest I've seen better quality in games in both B2P and F2P than Wildstar by now, mostly because of the very slow content updates and 2 completely abandoned dead servers... Out of 4. 
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Tera. I'm quite enjoying Rift. Surprisingly enough even though it didn't have an EU release yet, Blade and Soul if you understand Japanese or Korean, some of my guildies seem to be enjoying PSO2, Planetside 2 if you're interested in never ending war. Star Trek online is very underestimated, as it is a less grindy more casual version of Eve with events in it. 
 
Then there's all the upcomming MMOs, very well known and anticipated (Star Citizen and Eternal Crusade) and some lesser known titles also adapting this futuristic theme. 
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Give me an example other than GW2.
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Thank you.
 
For most of those, I've heard that they all went through a dark age - regardless of subscription plan.
 
Also I will never play Blade & Soul since that was the MMO shoved in my face in the same hour I was told CoH was shutting down.
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most of those did go trough a dark age. That's when they lost their sub and recovered. 
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Game will absolutely go F2P with cash shop and option to sub, just like Aion did(which is now a successful game with huge pop btw) .
 
NcSoft will not allow it to continue to run in the current state. 
 
Fanboi's in denial need to wake up.
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This, I suspect that the reason the group finder fixes are taking so long is because the development team are working on a switch to a different pay model which is taking precedence.
 
As for the rest of the thread.
 
*dumb image snip*
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As for the rest of the thread.
 
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And here we have yet another reason why Carbine really needs to do a "Flick:  CREDD" video.  More and more people have no idea how CREDD works, thinking that it's flat out losing Carbine money.
CREDD tokens are not crapped out of thin air by some token server when someone ponies up 15 plat.  They MUST be purchased by players for $20.  Read again: Twenty real-world dollars must be given to Carbine to generate a CREDD token.  This also must be purchased by someone with an active sub, meaning that that person has already paid their $15 for the month.  Whether or not one person buys that CREDD or they purchase another month with it, Carbine makes a profit.
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I used to joke on twitter about how i get more emails from them about the cash shop then actual content or anything else for that matter,lol
Like shoogli,just about every F2P title i have played customer service and quality are a sad joke.it's more like cash shop,cash shop and cash shop!
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Now lets go on about Wildstar and quality subscription brings... https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/119065-massive-lag-and-dc-on-jabbit/
What is your defence on that Shoogli?
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If you read that thread the problem is with NCSoft and not Carbine studios or the game itself.
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And?
 
I'm paying NCsoft a subscription every month and the servers they use are just crap it seems, so saying that subscription gets you quality :/
It's not carbine faults or the game faults but it does effect our gaming experience...
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It's a shame all of you F2P doomsayers are so happy. I'm sure you'll be over-the-moon if a F2P decision is ever made.
 
Me, I'll be sad to see the demise of such a great game, but fortunately life is bigger than WS and I'll find something else to do with my time.
 
But again, all you are doing by arguing about this on the forums is telling people like me to quit the game. I don't really understand the benefits of predicting F2P over and over again except for your desire to put fear in the hearts of people like me.	
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This, I suspect that the reason the group finder fixes are taking so long is because the development team are working on a switch to a different pay model which is taking precedence.
 
As for the rest of the thread.
 
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I'm sick of this.  Sick to death of this.  Yeah we know the game has issues, none of us are saying the game's perfectly fine.  It's things like this that are pissing people off.  It's like the f2p crowd isn't getting it that we get the game has issues.
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I know more people lurk than actually post, and I am one of them.  But I wanted to add my 2 cents to this topic.  I was in open Beta and the launch of Wildstar.  The entire experience was overwhelming and, a bit, frantic for me.  What drove me away was adjusting to the combat system and the attitude from the playerbase towards, "If you are not HARDCORE!" go back to (insert game here).
 
I do not know what changed my mind to peek back into Wildstar.  I didn't know there was a free trial and I had no idea I had been subbed since last June.  I had never cut off my subscribtion.  But I am loving it right now and enjoying taking things at my own pace.  The story, the quirkiness, costumes and (soon) housing! are all keeping my attention.  I can't group, though, because nothing will pop for me to group for.  Not even the Protogames which are supposed to teach me about grouping?
 
But my point is, I am someone who is giving the game an honest try and enjoying it.  The lack of population is concerning but how can it grow if none of the newbies stay? Surely there are more like me who want to.  Surely there are more than these doom and gloom naysayers.  Has Carbine ever thought of doing a query of their current active players in regards to their willingness to hang out while the game is built up?  I pay the subscription because I currently am too low level for CREDD.  I will switch once I figure all that out.
 
But if this goes F2P, I am outta here.  Period.	
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It's a shame all of you F2P doomsayers are so happy. I'm sure you'll be over-the-moon if a F2P decision is ever made.
 
Me, I'll be sad to see the demise of such a great game, but fortunately life is bigger than WS and I'll find something else to do with my time.
 
But again, all you are doing by arguing about this on the forums is telling people like me to quit the game. I don't really understand the benefits of predicting F2P over and over again except for your desire to put fear in the hearts of people like me.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
and in all honesty there's no reason why Hybrid has to be a bad thing.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The decision to make this a p2p game was made back when Carbine said that they were going to deliver content patches every month so that players would feel like they're getting their money's worth.
----
			
I don`t believe, that there are plans to switch the game to F2P.
W* is not designed for this type of business model and they don´t have the necessary ressources to redesign.
For F2P you need at least a cash-shop to earn money and items worth buying. E.g. Pets.
 
Because pets are already introduced for next drop, I can`t imagine, that someone will put them into a cashshop in the near future.
No one will risk the upcoming shitstorm. If there were plans to go F2P, pets would have been saved for that.
 
The probable variant for a change will be a B2P model. And that only, when the upcoming modifications are successfull for attracting more casual standard players and keeping them in game.
With it`s current reputation of beeing a "hardcore" game, W* will only gather a small player base, willing to sub, but never keep the game profitable.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This was a ridiculous claim and I never took it seriously. Clearly other people did, though :(
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
I think everyone who even had a hint of programming knowledge was pretty much "yeah....lets see how long that lasts" hehe. I remember GW2 actually wanting to try something similar like that before with their more major patches and that didn't last long either...
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I don`t believe, that there are plans to switch the game to F2P.
W* is not designed for this type of business model and they don´t have the necessary ressources to redesign.
For F2P you need at least a cash-shop to earn money and items worth buying. E.g. Pets.
 
Because pets are already introduced for next drop, I can`t imagine, that someone will put them into a cashshop in the near future.
No one will risk the upcoming shitstorm. If there were plans to go F2P, pets would have been saved for that.
 
The probable variant for a change will be a B2P model. And that only, when the upcoming modifications are successfull for attracting more casual standard players and keeping them in game.
With it`s current reputation of beeing a "hardcore" game, W* will only gather a small player base, willing to sub, but never keep the game profitable.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
and its going to be for the best.
----
			Ya know what, every thread seems to devolve into an argument about f2p, b2p, and p2p.  It's tired, old, and at this point is just polarizing people.  I'm not making an appeal to stop because people won't.  Carbine has their numbers, has NCSoft on their shoulder, and if they're working on a f2p model then nothing said here is going to change that.  If they're not working on a f2p model then nothing said here is going to change that.  Let em do what they're going to do.  As for the argument of f2p, yeah I'm done.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Honestly, it's becoming demoralizing for me. I come to this forum to chat about the game, but more and more I'm just getting told that I shouldn't be investing my time in this game anymore. I really would prefer to spend my time talking about the things I enjoy in this game and how much fun I'm having.
 
I wouldn't even come to this forum but it's something to read while I'm waiting for code to compile.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Ya know what, every thread seems to devolve into an argument about f2p, b2p, and p2p.  It's tired, old, and at this point is just polarizing people.  I'm not making an appeal to stop because people won't.  Carbine has their numbers, has NCSoft on their shoulder, and if they're working on a f2p model then nothing said here is going to change that.  If they're not working on a f2p model then nothing said here is going to change that.  Let em do what they're going to do.  As for the argument of f2p, yeah I'm done.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Not for me.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Ya know what, every thread seems to devolve into an argument about f2p, b2p, and p2p.  It's tired, old, and at this point is just polarizing people.  I'm not making an appeal to stop because people won't.  Carbine has their numbers, has NCSoft on their shoulder, and if they're working on a f2p model then nothing said here is going to change that.  If they're not working on a f2p model then nothing said here is going to change that.  Let em do what they're going to do.  As for the argument of f2p, yeah I'm done.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well, congratulations. Throw yourself a parade when it goes F2P. Dance on the graves of those of us who won't be there. Celebrate your ability to predict the future.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
it'll be alright, it is ok to be different.
but you have to understand that in this democratic world; majority wins.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
There's this ignore feature on the forum.
No need to see these posts then.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Honestly, it's becoming demoralizing for me. I come to this forum to chat about the game, but more and more I'm just getting told that I shouldn't be investing my time in this game anymore. I really would prefer to spend my time talking about the things I enjoy in this game and how much fun I'm having.
 
I wouldn't even come to this forum but it's something to read while I'm waiting for code to compile.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
come here, give me a hug.
it'll be alright, it is ok to be different.
but you have to understand that in this democratic world; majority wins.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Ya, confirmed for troll.
 
(again)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
There's this ignore feature on the forum.
No need to see these posts then.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Ya, confirmed for rowsdower.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It's mostly the same people too. It seems like the "cool" thing to do at the moment.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
but when you are in a thread about bad news from an investment firm.. i mean, COME ON, don't act all sad. you put that on yourself Jef...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is the internet. Hating on things is cool, such as Nickleback, Kayne West, people that like to go to night clubs, internet explorer,COD and now Wildstar. The internet forums represent such a small amount of people, but yet people see it as the majority. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'd have stayed out of this thread if it was the only one.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'd have stayed out of this thread if it was the only one.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
so many threads.. i guess that means there is an issue...
 
but, you can still hide under a rock in the morning coffee threads or the TDLR for 0-50.
maybe a few others too :D
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Can you explain why you are smiling?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Can you explain why you are smiling?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The problem is when the same 4 or 5 sociopathic morons warp almost every unrelated thread they post in, into a "dis gaym ded/bad!" thread. For the sole purpose of being passive-aggressively antagonistic, and under the phony guise of "wanting to be realistic". Who attempt to protect this fake guise (that anyone with a mental age over 6 can see through), by calling everyone who isn't like them a "white knight".
----
			
I think that It's nice to be informed, but I'm just going to go the route of..."Cross that bridge when/if we get there".
 
Wouldn't be the first time they're wrong and not the first time they'd be "right", but no one really knows the future. Right now I'm enjoying the hell out of Wildstar and I'm happy to see returning and new players coming in. I love Wildstar, most of the community, and the improvements the game has been making to boot. So I'll jsut enjoy myself, offer suggestions and give feedback where I can.
 
If the game goes F2P or B2P I won't leave immediately, but if the game took a direction I feel is not to my liking I will simply leave and go elsewhere. I'm be the same way even in P2P models it's the nature of the beast in that MMO games change...
 
That's just me though...	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
try to cheer you up.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
He thinks the world is a democracy, why do you take him remotely serious?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Passive-aggressiveness.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You are telling me that it's inevitable that the game is going F2P (which means I will probably quit a game I really enjoy) and a smile after that is supposed to cheer me up?
 
The REAL problem I have here is I think you are actually damaging the chances of the game to gain population with this stuff. If the forums were as positive as the feeling I get in game, then it's far more attractive.
 
And I think a more realistic view than the one you have is that if WS can't hack it as a sub game then NCSoft will just pull the plug. It's more likely to die than go F2P. But what do I know.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
And I think a more realistic view than the one you have is that if WS can't hack it as a sub game then NCSoft will just pull the plug. It's more likely to die than go F2P. But what do I know.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Mostly, I'm just tired of him. I'd put him on ignore, but he poisons threads and creates discussions that I can't escape short of just leaving the forums. Which I probably should do.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
quite possible. but i'd rather not having that happen.
obviously if there was a lot of people playing and paying i would be all in favour of a P2P model! (i am currently subbed btw).
 
but now that we can see the numbers, and that we can estimate the future (i mean, we all have our different views but lets consider that i am talking with my own opinions mind. as should you) well, there need to be a plan "B" for wildstar.
if it isn't a business model change then it needs to be something that will bring in aa LOT of players within a relatively short amount of time.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The problem is when the same 4 or 5 sociopathic morons warp almost every unrelated thread they post in, into a "dis gaym ded/bad!" thread. For the sole purpose of being passive-aggressively antagonistic, and under the phony guise of "wanting to be realistic". Who attempt to protect this fake guise (that anyone with a mental age over 6 can see through), by calling everyone who isn't like them a "white knight".
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
it's not the servers, it's Level3.
Not owned by NCsoft or Carbine, and switching provider ain't that easy.
I don't like it either, but there's not much that can be done.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Thing is its the same from the other side, not naming names but soggy cardboard face, too long did not beaner and olive oil flood these forums constantly with "positive" comments. Can't imagine how many people they have drove away with this attitude. Works both ways, people see white knighting even if it is hidden in "constructive" posts.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is all so easy.
 
We are paying NCsoft to play the game and they are renting the servers from level3, so it's NCsoft job to pressure level3 to change the situation and not us the players.
 
But lets not go there, it's just that it all adds up when talking about quality. Or is a lagging game experience a sign of good quality?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
choose your threads Jeff...
 
i am not talking business model change in a thread that doesn't have that direction already....
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
But this is not the only thread you've talked about this in.
 
It honestly would be fine if it wasn't so pervasive.
 
But I already said that, and you used that as justification as to why this topic is important, told me to hide under a rock, and then smiled at me.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
But this is not the only thread you've talked about this in.
 
It honestly would be fine if it wasn't so pervasive.
 
But I already said that, and you used that as justification as to why this topic is important, told me to hide under a rock, and then smiled at me.
----
			If everyone was a business man/woman and took advice from a single investment firm and from 1 quarterly report man would this world crash and burn.  Sorry but with a market as volitile as mmo's it can be hard to predict anything until we have some solid info about it.  It's still too early in this game's lifespan to predict anything at this point.  I would love to see someone calculate the correlation off of given data and that of projected data.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 Sorry but with a market as volitile as mmo's it can be hard to predict anything until we have some solid info about it.  It's still too early in this game's lifespan to predict anything at this point. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If everyone was a business man/woman and took advice from a single investment firm and from 1 quarterly report man would this world crash and burn.  Sorry but with a market as volitile as mmo's it can be hard to predict anything until we have some solid info about it.  It's still too early in this game's lifespan to predict anything at this point.  I would love to see someone calculate the correlation off of given data and that of projected data.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
[...]
 
Now lets go on about Wildstar and quality subscription brings... https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/119065-massive-lag-and-dc-on-jabbit/
What is your defence on that Shoogli?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm sure that's what 60 Carbine employees were thinking just a few months back.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
choose your threads Jeff...
 
i am not talking business model change in a thread that doesn't have that direction already....
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm sure that's what 60 Carbine employees were thinking just a few months back.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 I'd be more worried if you had a situation like Big Red Button with sonic boom where employees leave the company voluntarily in droves. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
How, you're in every single *cupcake*ing "general discussion" thread unless it's the coffee thread (which I don't go into very often) or the 0-50s
 
I want to discuss the game, not your shitty attitude problem. You're a passive aggressive little wannabe that took the numbers from one quarterly report and now you think you're NCSoft's financial aide. It's pathetic. Short of reporting every single post you make now trying to derail threads (meaning I can't put your drivel on ignore), there's nothing else I can do to be able to have "general discussions" about the game.
 
I know you're trying to rile people up, and I know you see it as some funny game. But you really do look so pathetic. Do you want to know the reason why noone posts anymore? Look in the mirror. 
Even I don't want to post on this toxic shithole you've created. God job "avatar", you are #1 troll.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
well.. that kind of happened....
----
			
I don't really give a shit if I get banned anymore. I'm sick to the stomach of it. It's been going on too long, provocation, misinformation, derailing threads, spamming. If anything it should be you guys who get banned for constantly abusing forum rules.
 
Misinformation everywhere, all the time.
 
Have you people never followed development of a game before? Big project, people work. Project finishes: no need for extra manpower, people get laid off. ITS COMMON BUSINESS PRACTICE.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Cool, personal attacks. Mods?
 
 
No, I find it funny that you think there's nothing "solid" about the consequences of this game's failure, yet failed to remember 60 people who no longer have work. I'm sure everyone walked into their jobs with the nonchalant expectation that a lot of them would get laid off, because it's "so common" as you say.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It's an easy explanation, because the details would probably take me 2-3 pages to write out.
I'm speaking out of experience with Level3 as provider for games, and why it's not that easy to just "switch".
As I said in other threads, I do not like this situation either, but resolving this problem takes alot of time, effort and money.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I don't really give a shit if I get banned anymore. I'm sick to the stomach of it. It's been going on too long, provocation, misinformation, derailing threads, spamming. If anything it should be you guys who get banned for constantly abusing forum rules.
 
Misinformation everywhere, all the time.
 
Have you people never followed development of a game before? Big project, people work. Project finishes: no need for extra manpower, people get laid off. ITS COMMON BUSINESS PRACTICE.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What's funny is that you completely sidestepped the point that he was making, so you could go off on a random and ridiculous tangent, to falsely paint him as some heartless person.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What's funny is that you completely sidestepped the point that he was making, so you could go off on a random and ridiculous tangent, to falsely paint him as some heartless person.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What, you mean how it's "common business practice"? And that...somehow is less dire? Let's be clear about one thing, the game lost core artists, development leads, and systems designers. It didn't lose temporary CSR or bulk coders. And that it's "common" really isn't any defense. If the game were anywhere near as successful as it was aiming to be, we would not have lost some of the bigger names. Stephen Frost left for Amazon, and took a few of his buddies with him.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Is there no way for level 3 to improve the situation?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Come get coffee instead.  We actually talk about the game there.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
and you never talk about your opinion on the topic. you just try to thrown in some philosophy about the posters thinking that you know what they think or mean.
 
pretty weird imo.
but hey, whatever suits you mate. we welcome all.
----
			Dharnell  was right in the direction I was heading with my comment.  Also, I never said I liked the practice nor condone it, but it happens and you would be stupid not to see it going on daily.  Sure they lost core coders and this and that, but let's be honest, when the core development cycle is done these lay-offs seem to happen. 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
please. relax and check the threads i am posting in.
you don't want to get banned. we love you. so please go cheer up all the other threads about positivity.
 
the world requires balance and at the moment the trend i see is that there is more action in a CLEARLY NEGATIVE THREAD than any positive threads.
but lets not say that it is a STATISTIC now. because it isn't right?
 
so yeah, take responsibility.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
please. relax and check the threads i am posting in.
you don't want to get banned. we love you. so please go cheer up all the other threads about positivity.
 
the world requires balance and at the moment the trend i see is that there is more action in a CLEARLY NEGATIVE THREAD than any positive threads.
but lets not say that it is a STATISTIC now. because it isn't right?
 
so yeah, take responsibility.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You post in every thread with your crap, negative or positive. Most of the positive threads just don't carry on because you come on in on your massive shit explosion and spray shit everywhere. I'm sick of replying to the same sensationalised bullshit that pushes the positive threads or even discussion about the game further down the forum. You are the problem. You can't just stick to one thread or make your own crying in it, you have to spread your feces around everywhere like a deranged person and have everyone else deal with it.
 
You don't even have a clue what has happened with the game itself. It's like you've been living in a box with your own crap that you think is truth. I sometimes even wonder if you even play the game or whether you're just coasting on CREDD trying to make people feel bad because you find it fun.
----
			
and maybe the leave of some people form carbine was a greater good, take a look at the state of the game and how it has improving slow but steady since Pappy or Timetravel take the lead on things, even look at the quality of things from a 3 month development perspective for drop 4 and upcoming drop 5,  there is only congratulations about the quality of those 2 and if they follow that path this game will do good, just wait.
 
(and btw that forecast for 2015 you all talk shows wildstar earning the same in all the 4Q of 2015, thats funny when you see that,  that means they did a non depth forecast for all the year and just divided it by four, this is a common thing when they dont have the enough data to make reliable charts for forecasting or when they dont seem to have enough information to predict the trend in a reliable way, its kinda we dont know but it can be this, but we arent sure (source: i was an economic journalist for a agency press 2 years, saw a lot of that forecasts for other companies, most of them on petroleum bussines or manufacturing))	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What, you don't know why?
 
Negativity is the language of the internet.  Obviously, you're here.  You say you're a white knight everywhere else.  You aren't in those positive threads, either.  You rarely give any indication that you have anything you'd actually enjoy in the game even if it did change business practices because you aren't in those positive threads either.  You only say that, "This game's going to have to go F2P because there's no population, there's no population because everyone assumes the game is dead."
 
I mean, you do realize you are your own problem.  This game is bouncing back, recuperating population, and having to fight this kind of thing to do it.
 
The only reason this happens is because negativity can be assured of a response, and some people are looking for a response, not a conversation.  That's a pretty dirty truth about our generation in general.  We're enamored with our own misery, delighting only when we can hope that the misery is so pervasive that we aren't alone in it.  We're ready to torpedo our own and anyone else's joy, to be the willing instruments of our own disenfranchisement, because happiness isn't in vogue and we pine for attention, any attention.
 
The worst thing is, you talk to people who spend all their time complaining about the game, the population, what have you on the forums one-on-one, it evaporates.  People talk about what they love about the game, what they value, why they play it.  They talk about how much they love the dungeons, how much they love their guild, random Shiphands, world bosses, crafting, just running around with friends killing rares.
 
But they wouldn't dare say that in public.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Playing white knight doesn't help either. I know that you happily tuck away in your PVE server, but bae the PVP servers are dead. So, we have a general sense of where this game is heading. Remember the many servers we had? Now, they are 2 left. 
 
Newbies/Returning players log on to a PVP server: where the *cupcake* is everyone. 
 
Is it just me, cuz I believe that all the people who are against F2P are PVErs happily tucked away in their PVE servers, hence the rowsdower comment. 
----
			Mods, please don't ban Sylqt.  He's angry, and correct.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Are you *cupcake*ing dense? Now I know you don't play the game or haven't been around the forums for long.
 
My guild was the last active international guild on Luminai. My guild and I fought for MONTHS to keep that server alive. I messaged devs, I made threads that were buried by this sensationalist bullcrap.
 
I'm a pvp'er. I run the largest pvp guild on EU dominion side. (Or maybe even the whole of EU)
 
I'm not a "whiteknight" I know full well that carbine killed my server. My home. The server I and many other people want to play on.
 
I'm well aware of the issues of this game. Is it as bad as you retards are making it out to be? No way.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Again. People are leaving the PVP server. People are recommending the PVE server to transfer. Let me change text colors for you to read. 
 
Please get to reality. I believe anyone of you non-F2P people, would gladly change your opinion if you are still playing on a "dead" server. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Playing white knight doesn't help either. I know that you happily tuck away in your PVE server, but bae the PVP servers are dead. So, we have a general sense of where this game is heading. Remember the many servers we had? Now, they are 2 left. 
 
Newbies/Returning players log on to a PVP server: where the *cupcake* is everyone. 
 
Is it just me, cuz I believe that all the people who are against F2P are PVErs happily tucked away in their PVE servers, hence the rowsdower comment. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Playing white knight doesn't help either. I know that you happily tuck away in your PVE server, but bae the PVP servers are dead. So, we have a general sense of where this game is heading. Remember the many servers we had? Now, they are 2 left. 
 
Newbies/Returning players log on to a PVP server: where the *cupcake* is everyone. 
 
Is it just me, cuz I believe that all the people who are against F2P are PVErs happily tucked away in their PVE servers, hence the rowsdower comment. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Except Syql was a massive player on PvP and one of the last to leave.
Please do some research...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What, you don't know why?
 
Negativity is the language of the internet.  Obviously, you're here.  You say you're a white knight everywhere else.  You aren't in those positive threads, either.  You rarely give any indication that you have anything you'd actually enjoy in the game even if it did change business practices because you aren't in those positive threads either.  You only say that, "This game's going to have to go F2P because there's no population, there's no population because everyone assumes the game is dead."
 
I mean, you do realize you are your own problem.  This game is bouncing back, recuperating population, and having to fight this kind of thing to do it.
 
The only reason this happens is because negativity can be assured of a response, and some people are looking for a response, not a conversation.  That's a pretty dirty truth about our generation in general.  We're enamored with our own misery, delighting only when we can hope that the misery is so pervasive that we aren't alone in it.  We're ready to torpedo our own and anyone else's joy, to be the willing instruments of our own disenfranchisement, because happiness isn't in vogue and we pine for attention, any attention.
 
The worst thing is, you talk to people who spend all their time complaining about the game, the population, what have you on the forums one-on-one, it evaporates.  People talk about what they love about the game, what they value, why they play it.  They talk about how much they love the dungeons, how much they love their guild, random Shiphands, world bosses, crafting, just running around with friends killing rares.
 
But they wouldn't dare say that in public.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Except Syql was a massive player on PvP and one of the last to leave.
Please do some research...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Are you *cupcake*ing dense? Now I know you don't play the game or haven't been around the forums for long.
 
My guild was the last active international guild on Luminai. My guild and I fought for MONTHS to keep that server alive. I messaged devs, I made threads that were buried by this sensationalist bullcrap.
 
I'm a pvp'er. I run the largest pvp guild on EU dominion side. (Or maybe even the whole of EU)
 
I'm not a "whiteknight" I know full well that carbine killed my server. My home. The server I and many other people want to play on.
 
I'm well aware of the issues of this game. Is it as bad as you retards are making it out to be? No way.
----