Report 1222

Report #1222
Skillset: Enchantment Skill: Greatrobes
 Org: Pyromancers Status: Completed Oct 2013
Furies' Decision:
We will look into a tempering-equivalent for greatrobes.
Problem: RNG still proves to be a burden for caster classes who rely on luck for
enchanted robes and forged shields to be made with desirable statistics. This
burden, however, has already been lifted from melee classes by enabling them to
temper weapons and armor directly.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Enable enchanters to temper greatrobes at a greater
 cost (power or otherwise) than it takes to normally
 enchant. Like forging weapons and armor, institute
 caps that cannot be breached to maintain balance.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Enable forgers to temper greatshields like they do
 for armor and weapons. Likewise, impose a statistical
 cap to maintain balance.
Player Comments:
---[Synkarin on 10/15 @ 04:26 writes]:
Total support, this has been a long time coming, it'll also temper the extremes
of robe stats to help out warriors a bit
---[Shuyin on 10/15 @ 04:32 writes]:
Been there, done that, report 465. Support but good luck with that.
---[Vivet on 10/15 @ 05:02 writes]:
I don't see this getting anywhere without suggested caps, at the least. Maybe
something along the lines of 55/55 and 75/75?
---[Xenthos on 10/15 @ 13:02 writes]:
Aren't splendors usually seen as 70/70 for a good set? Really shouldn't allow
tempering them higher than that, especially given the ability to have 52/52
artifact shields with gripping runes. You can still allow someone to shred the
robes and remake them over and over to try to get a single stat higher than the
70 allowed, but if you want to use the easier syntax the cap should not be any
higher than 70.
---[Xenthos on 10/15 @ 13:03 writes]:
Oh, and lest it give the false impression: I fully agree with this report.
Making robes easier to deal with is -great- and should be implemented. I'm just
poking at the suggested numbers a bit!
---[Talan on 10/16 @ 02:20 writes]:
This would greatly reduce the consumption of commodities in general, eliminating
a large gold sink in the game. People who care about max stats are willing to
try many times to achieve them. "Above-average" and possible outliers are the
reward for that effort and expenditure. That is the way it should be. Averages
are a little closer to 98/130 combined stats, so the caps proposed above seem
high. This doesn't make robes "easier to deal with," it just makes the highest
stats easier to get. Do we actually want all robes wearers to be practically
assured of having the highest stats? Would that not throw other damages out of
whack? There has already been a recent change regarding robes not degrading in
terms of prestige/appearance when mended, basically ensuring that they are a
one-time expenditure. People always complain about the game economy and the high
price of credits, but have systematically devalued every other resource through
changes that only cater to laziness and entitlement. OPPOSED.
---[Enyalida on 10/19 @ 20:15 writes]:
This isn't a good commodity sink, it's just terribly obnoxious. Playing
'roulette' is never a good alternative. If the costs need to go up for
enchanting or crafting greatrobes in exchange for not having a big random
factor, so be it.
---[Thoros on 10/20 @ 13:37 writes]:
Sure
---[Chade on 10/21 @ 03:42 writes]:
100% supported. Having been an pre-tempering forger for a long time, I always
thought knights had it rough when trying to achieve a set of decent full-plate
armour. The introduction of tempering was the single best change to any skill
I've ever used as it reduced the sheer monotony of forging. I then spent a brief
time as a caster and had to reassess my belief that pre-tempering forging was
the single most boring thing I'd ever done. Getting a set of 70/70 splendours
was the most obnoxious and boring thing I've ever gone through and it required
finding an enchanter willing to give up their time. I'm firmly of the opinion
that this change is necessary but I'd suggest a slightly different
implementation - give tailors a new skill ALTER and have it function in the same
manor as tempering. Tailors would then be able to use commodities to ALTER ROBES
CUTTING UP/DOWN and ALTER ROBES BLUNT UP/DOWN at a cost of 4 silk per alteration
- this would also help mitigate Talan's point about the loss of commodity sinks.
Allow people with shears to use the ALTER skill with power reserves or a
powerstone if wielded. I'd suggest set limits of 50/50 for standard greatrobes
and 70/70 for splendours.
---[Chade on 10/21 @ 03:44 writes]:
I'm less bothered about forgers having the ability to temper shields although it
would be nice and I also support solution 2. A change to how robes are created
has been a long time coming and would remove one of the greatest barriers to new
caster players getting hold of decent equipment.
---[Talan on 10/21 @ 15:49 writes]:
The problem is that you're mistaking what is technically possible with what
should be expected. Base of greatrobes is 12/12. Base of splendours is 27/27.
Average of enchanted greatrobes is around 50/50. Average of splendours is around
65/65. 70/70 is 10 points above average. That's why they are generally so hard
to come by. It's not enchanting that's out of whack - it's players'
expectations. The rule of thumb is "don't settle for less than 70/70," but that
advice is only based on the premise that if you bother investing in this trade
skill, you might as well shoot for the moon. If people had more realistic
expectations, this would be a non-issue. If you want robes to be 70/70 with any
reliability, why not just raise the base of splendours to 32/32? You can have
what you want without changing the entire system.
---[Chade on 10/21 @ 20:18 writes]:
Whilst I appreciate what you're saying, it's unrealistic to expect people not to
shoot for the moon in situations like this. In a game where min/maxing is
possible its always going to be carried out by those who want to succeed, the
follow on from that is that it becomes the defacto standard which everyone
expects they should be able to achieve. I see this report as serving two
functions: if armour protection from robes is standardised for everyone it makes
balancing for knight/monk wounding easier as it means everyone will be working
from the same base level. Secondly it removes a level of aggravation from the
playerbase, since most people are always going to strive for the maximum level
of protection. I can't help but see this as a good change and if further
commodity sinks are needed to balance this change out then they can be added
later. Apologies for any errors in this, was typed from my phone.