108290-wildstar-population-ncsoft-2nd-quarter-2014-earnings-report-page-2

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Well raids are not any "more entertaining" than dungeons. They are harder and more of a brick-wall(wiping for hours everyday, filling raid spots, etc).  You are coming from SWTOR and talking about going to WoW, so it would appear you are simply not used to what wildstar brings to the table.
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I'll be honest. if you couldn't get attuned, you're not going to have much if any success in the Raids. They are nerfing the attunement so anyone can get attuned now. But they're not planning on nerfing the raids.
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To be honest, I think you should just wait and see. For many people, it isn't the case of not being "good enough" to get Silver, but having one or two people in the groups they've tried with who aren't "good enough" that is keeping them from getting Silver. There will be no shortage of people who are able to raid once the attunement process gets adjusted.
 
Sure, there will be plenty of people who won't be able to raid, but that's the case now, with people paying for carries or getting Silvers through exploits. At this point, you really can't tell whether or not someone earned their Silver through skill until you get them into a raid, so that stage of attunement isn't working as intended. It's letting some people who aren't capable through while keeping others who are capable out. This is the problem many people who have given up on the game have cited, and changing it is a step in the right direction.
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WS needs some of that GW2 tech ASAP.  GW2 switched to megaserver and now the game always looks populated even if there were only 500 people in the world playing.  They could've avoided this obvious lack of player base with the illusion provided by megaserver.
 
Too late now.  Most of the population knows there is only about enough NA population to warrant maybe 3 or 4 servers total across all modes PVE, PVP and RP combined.
 
This screenshot is about 1 minute old.  I'm very curious to check this status on Drop 3 launch day.  Willing to bet maybe 3 servers at medium maybe 4.  Still none at high.	
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The myth that attunement is a predictor of raid success is not going to die quietly - perhaps it shouldn't die at all since it performs a valuable service to some as a confidence builder for those players who have more time and determination than skill and can use that myth as a morale boost as they progress into progression raid content.
 
The correlating myth that attunement teaches players to raid serves a similar purpose - players that cleared the most difficult raid content in other games while it was current don't use attunement as a raid teaching tool or see it as a predictor of raid success; however, some less experienced players might gain skill/confidence believing it.
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I know some people kind of roll their eyes at it, but there are quite a few people in PUGs who really, really, REALLY need the experience they're forced to gain in attunement to learn to raid.
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WS needs some of that GW2 tech ASAP.  GW2 switched to megaserver and now the game always looks populated even if there were only 500 people in the world playing.  They could've avoided this obvious lack of player base with the illusion provided by megaserver.
 
Too late now.  Most of the population knows there is only about enough NA population to warrant maybe 3 or 4 servers total across all modes PVE, PVP and RP combined.
 
This screenshot is about 1 minute old.  I'm very curious to check this status on Drop 3 launch day.  Willing to bet maybe 3 servers at medium maybe 4.  Still none at high.
 
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			Whether the game fails or floats, I'm staying here till the end :)My guild is more lively today than ever before. We hit over 30 people online at the same time (which even at launch hasn't happened) and the chat went crazy :D we are very much mixed, we're having fun, I'm pugging some veteran dungeons and all seems alright. Though to be honest even if the game only has 100K subs playing, that's enough to keep it afloat. So we might be in for years worth of a ride. 	
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Absolutely, it is a valuable learning experience for players who haven't mastered current progression raid content in other games.
 
For players and guilds who have cleared hard raid content in other games, it is less a 'learning experience' and more of a 'chore.'
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Whether the game fails or floats, I'm staying here till the end :)
 
My guild is more lively today than ever before. We hit over 30 people online at the same time (which even at launch hasn't happened) and the chat went crazy :D we are very much mixed, we're having fun, I'm pugging some veteran dungeons and all seems alright. 
 
Though to be honest even if the game only has 100K subs playing, that's enough to keep it afloat. So we might be in for years worth of a ride. 
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Please kidnap yourself and come to the US so I can play with you. 
 
Also you need 10 more drones for the 40 man raids. I suggest cloning your guildies. 
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NCSoft's second quarter earnings report is up on their website. It shows WIldstar's sales at about $27 million USD after converting from KRW (South Korea Won). If you assume an average box price of $60, with the folks paying for the deluxe canceled out by the folks who got a 20% discount on the box, that's a little over 455 k subs at launch, if I did my math right. (If I didn't, I know some kind soul will correct me.) 
Anyone want to speculate on what the retention rate of those buyers has been? One in two, one in five, one in ten still playing? We finally have some hard population numbers -- do they support the idea that WIldstar is fine pop-wise, or in trouble?
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but now that one person suggests that "WildStar sold under 500K copies," based on some off-the-cuff calculation, people are claiming that the game had *cupcake*-poor sales from the very beginning.
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We don't know how sales figures were calculated. The retail price may not be what they were calculated off. For example, GMG offered the game for 25% off, and also took their cut (which is a complete X factor). We have no idea how much NCSoft/Carbine made from the sale of each copy. If they made an average of $40 per copy, the number of copies sold is significantly higher than if they made an average of $60 per copy. That hasn't stopped people from taking your figure and talking about it as if it's the God's Honest Truth, though.
 
In any case, it's funny that at launch, when servers were full, with queues several hours long, and new servers being opened, there was no doubt that the game sold well, but now that one person suggests that "WildStar sold under 500K copies," based on some off-the-cuff calculation, people are claiming that the game had *cupcake*-poor sales from the very beginning.
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They've already said in one of their interviews that they can't merge servers because there are too many active accounts (no two servers would be able to coexist), so I'd imagine "low" doesn't mean 20% of capacity.
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For a sub based game they might - because the initial sale isn't the real revenue stream.
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I think that's bunk. They need to target concurrency, not total accounts.
 
If a new drop comes up and server queues are back, fine. The few people that would be turned away by queues for a few days are worth it when balanced against the many people turned away by lack of desire to play in an empty environment.
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			I guess we'll just have to wait and see.  We'll have our answer near the 1 year mark.  If WS was a flop, NCSoft won't hesitate to close the servers.  If it was a success, we'll get a year 2.	
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If WS was a flop, NCSoft won't hesitate to close the servers.
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This, which is why the numbers are concerning.
 
NCSoft has no problem shutting down games that they deem unsuccessful, and they'll do it legally or illegally. Makes me wonder if they were actually chosen by Carbine, or if they were the only choice.
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My belief is that NCSoft would take it F2P before just closing the doors.
 
As long as they think they could get enough microtransaction revenue to offset the cost of servers + some profit margin, they'd just let it stagnate to get whatever revenue they could and then close it.	
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This, which is why the numbers are concerning.
 
NCSoft has no problem shutting down games that they deem unsuccessful, and they'll do it legally or illegally. Makes me wonder if they were actually chosen by Carbine, or if they were the only choice.
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			At least Wildstar isn't being picked up by Nexon.	
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but they aren't stupid from a business perspective
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I know you're the most die-hard fanboy on these forums, so I'll put this in a way you'll understand.
 
You're right, NCSoft isn't stupid, which is exactly why they'll shut down Wildstar if they think it's worth doing so. That, or they'll divert all of the funds they make from Wildstar into whatever new, more "promising" project they have on the horizon, leaving you with stagnant content until they close the servers. That's how business works. To act like it's not even a possibility is to blatantly ignore NCSoft's history.
 
Logic 101.
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At launch more than 2/3 of the servers were high/full (some of them with queues) and the rest were medium. Now only 1 (Hazzak) gets medium in prime time. The rest are always low. So, do you think retention is even close to 50% ?
My guess, if sales were close to 500k, is that now there are around 100k subs max.	
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That's not how an investment north of $100 million works… 
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			There are currently 53 players online on Stormtalon at this precise moment...I am regretting buying this game... I will continue to play in hope that Carbine can rectify this situation... I even recommended the game to my friends and family, one of them bought it.*source* I /who A B C D E F etc....	
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			Just to correct something i said 3 posts before. Now (and its prime time in EU) not even Hazzak is medium...	
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There are currently 53 players online on Stormtalon at this precise moment...
 
I am regretting buying this game... I will continue to play in hope that Carbine can rectify this situation... I even recommended the game to my friends and family, one of them bought it.
 
*source* I /who A B C D E F etc....
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/who doesn't work correctly.
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Actually that is how business works. The money spent to this point is gone and NCSoft will only look at the best return on future investment. If WS looks like the best return on money invested going forward then they will continue funding it. NCSoft like any rational business will seek the maximum return on money they plan to invest right now and not consider sunk costs. 
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/who doesn't work correctly.
 
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How does it work anyway?
 
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How does it work anyway?
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There are currently 53 players online on Stormtalon at this precise moment...
 
I am regretting buying this game... I will continue to play in hope that Carbine can rectify this situation... I even recommended the game to my friends and family, one of them bought it.
 
*source* I /who A B C D E F etc....
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/who doesn't work correctly.
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At launch more than 2/3 of the servers were high/full (some of them with queues) and the rest were medium. Now only 1 (Hazzak) gets medium in prime time. The rest are always low. So, do you think retention is even close to 50% ?
My guess, if sales were close to 500k, is that now there are around 100k subs max.
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Carbine has stated that as of yet, no server has gone below 50% load in terms of active subscriptions (that's their reasoning for not merging servers yet, since no two could be merged with out pushing the active sub load above 50%, resulting in queues during high activity times [e.g. after updates, drops, and seasonal events])
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Even if this were true, which I doubt, it's irrelevant. It doesn't matter if each server has even a 70-80% load for active subscriptions if the concurrency never goes over 20%.
 
Seeing as how all but 3 US servers are permanently in the "low" status, it's pretty easy to see that the day-to-day concurrency on each of these servers is well below 50%, even during prime time.
 
Their reasoning for not merging servers is bunk. If you truly believe that most of these servers cannot be merged without a problem, you're only kidding yourself. Servers like Rowsdower are ghost towns.
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here's the scenario they're avoiding:
 
20% concurrent, 55% active sub  server merged into 35% concurrent, 60% active sub server
 
 
server merges announced.. players who are active but not logging in come back
 
server now at 109% ... crashes.. breaks.. everyone complains that servers are now "down all the time"..
 
this may not happen, but they don't want it to be a possibility.
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They can't base business decisions on the extremely remote chance that everyone, for some reason, decides to play at the same time one night. Even if that were to magically occur, having queues a handful of times a year is better than playing on a dead server the 360 other days of the year.
 
The refusal to merge has more to do with the fact that they're banking (pun intended) on people paying for server transfers off of their dead servers. With the dramatic decline in the game's population, I don't necessarily blame them at this point. But to hide the real reason behind the idea that they can't do it due to the .00001% chance that everyone and their mother will decide to log-on one day at the same time is disingenuous at best.
 
Edit: or it's just further proof that their servers' capacities aren't quite as big as they've been trying to lead everyone to believe.
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well, they can. I think they are.
 
I'm sure there's an aspect to it that we aren't thinking of. Or are not privy to. Companies who deal in subscriptions are notorious for playing it close to the vest. I'm not sure what we'd gain by knowing the exact number of people on the servers other than entitled posts and more demands.
 
constructive criticism is the best approach though. Nobody likes listening to demands or threats. Suggest a solution.
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			I think it's possible that the "can't merge servers due to too many active accounts" might have a sliver of truth to it. A rather large number of people appear to be maintaining their subs with CREDD but not actually playing much if at all.  So their accounts are "active" -- paid accounts -- but you wouldn't see them running around in game.  I'm still not sure I believe this story completely because I think the negative PR probably worries Carbine a lot more than a theoretical server crash if everyone reactivates at the same time, but I could see why there might be a big differential between the number of active accounts on a server and the number of characters running around in the game itself. 	
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			game is out for like 2 months and you expect millions of subs? give it some time.	
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game is out for like 2 months and you expect millions of subs? give it some time.
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The problem is not the overall population but how is shared in to servers. I have no problem playing a mmo which is not having millions of players, but not one with empty servers.
So you cant have the same servers as when subs were 500k and now that they are max 100k (my estimation). Split ppl equally to fewer servers or give them the right to move free and gather by their own to 4-5? serves and enjoy the game. Just dont ask them to pay for a transfer a month only after launch, considering they rolled to servers that were RECOMMENDED. Anyway even if you want to pay and move to a server there is only one with descent population in EU (Hazzak), which yesterday remained low all day, even in prime time.
So pls Carbine, stop hiding your head in the sand and give a solution NOW!
 
*Just for the record, i already payed a server transfer from Zhur to Hazzak but most of my friends/guild m8's didn't. They just quit...	
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They'll admit to servers being ghost towns as much as they'll budge and fix itemisation, pvp, removing rng and adding more content for level 50's.
In other words don't hold your breath.	
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They'll admit to servers being ghost towns as much as they'll budge and fix itemisation, pvp, removing rng and adding more content for level 50's.
In other words don't hold your breath.
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They'll admit to servers being ghost towns as much as they'll budge and fix itemisation, pvp, removing rng and adding more content for level 50's.
In other words don't hold your breath.
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I m not holding my breath for any game. I m just playing for the fun part of of them. So if the fun disappears from a game i m disappeared from it too.
There are some exceptions with games like WS, which i think has great potentials, if they decide to face the problems and give a solution fast, rather than keep their heads in the sand.
Anyway the mmo market has changed. Its not like 10 years before. Many new fine games or expansions are launching constantly, some of them f2p. Ppl cant make patience like they did with EQ1 or WoW or every game back then. Today if you are a developer you just DON'T have much time to act or react. You must be fast, really fast.
 
{| class="blockquote"
 
They'll admit to servers being ghost towns as much as they'll budge and fix itemisation, pvp, removing rng and adding more content for level 50's.
In other words don't hold your breath.
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What more? Actions my friend, actions, not only plans...
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Seriously? Semantics...
 
JTal posted exactly what he was doing on the forums... It is in the workflow right now going through the QA/QC process. It is literally happening at this very minute. 
 
Or were you under the impression that fixes just get thought up and go live immediately? Because that isn't the case in ANY MMO.
 
I'm the first to give Carbine sh!t when they screw something up; but I'm also the first to call it fair when they are acting to fix issues.
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Nazryn, must try to understand Human.
Want idea now and implementation yesterday.
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How about the Human way of "idea yesterday and implementation now"? I think its more reasonable than Chua's method of "idea today and implementation some time in the future". Don't you think?
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How about the Human way of "idea yesterday and implementation now"? I think its more reasonable than Chua's method of "idea today and implementation some time in the future". Don't you think?
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I know you're the most die-hard fanboy on these forums, so I'll put this in a way you'll understand.
 
You're right, NCSoft isn't stupid, which is exactly why they'll shut down Wildstar if they think it's worth doing so. That, or they'll divert all of the funds they make from Wildstar into whatever new, more "promising" project they have on the horizon, leaving you with stagnant content until they close the servers. That's how business works. To act like it's not even a possibility is to blatantly ignore NCSoft's history.
 
Logic 101.
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How about the Human way of "idea yesterday and implementation now"? I think its more reasonable than Chua's method of "idea today and implementation some time in the future". Don't you think?
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Actually that is how business works. The money spent to this point is gone and NCSoft will only look at the best return on future investment. If WS looks like the best return on money invested going forward then they will continue funding it. NCSoft like any rational business will seek the maximum return on money they plan to invest right now and not consider sunk costs. 
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How about the Human way of "idea yesterday and implementation now"? I think its more reasonable than Chua's method of "idea today and implementation some time in the future". Don't you think?
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Then Chua must know his method is not a software development method Humans can stand. So Chua will left alone in the end, while Humans will move in another software work closer to their tastes.
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When you rush fixes you break more than you fix.
 
There is an old addage used in pretty much every trade in some form, it goes like this:
 
"measure twice, cut once"
 
QA/QC takes some time; I would MUCH rather wait an extra few days / weeks to get a good fix than get a rushed fix that breaks half of the games items.
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Then Chua must know his method is not a software development method Humans can stand. So Chua will left alone in the end, while Humans will move in another software work closer to their tastes.
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Is this what the forums have come to? It's soooooooooooo boooooooooooooring!
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXC54bpolHA	
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Is this what the forums have come to? It's soooooooooooo boooooooooooooring!
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXC54bpolHA
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Then Chua must know his method is not a software development method Humans can stand. So Chua will left alone in the end, while Humans will move in another software work closer to their tastes.
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Humans after centuries of evolution knows this happens everywhere. They just don't excuse it anymore. They had enough over the years. So yes, while they know, they still hope for the Valhalla. Just to know fellow Chua, Human kind evolved to a very demanding, impatient and experienced specie and if you are a game developer you must take that in mind before you start building up your game. Else you ll end up to hang around only with Chua's :)
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Humans after centuries of evolution knows this happens everywhere. They just don't excuse it anymore. They had enough over the years. So yes, while they know, they still hope for the Valhalla. Just to know fellow Chua, Human kind evolved to a very demanding, impatient and experienced specie and if you are a game developer you must take that in mind before you start building up your game. Else you ll end up hanging around only with Chua's :)
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I mean this in the absolute nicest way...
 
But you really might want to look into getting your dosage of Adderal increased if that is really how you feel.
 
Most of the world is absolutely fine with stuff taking time. I don't break down when it takes 10 minutes to have a sandwich made; and I'm sure you will survive a week or two for some fixes to come through on an online game.
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I mean this in the absolute nicest way...
 
But you really might want to look into getting your dosage of Adderal increased if that is really how you feel.
 
Most of the world is absolutely fine with stuff taking time. I don't break down when it takes 10 minutes to have a sandwich made; and I'm sure you will survive a week or two for some fixes to come through on an online game.
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Humans after centuries of evolution knows this happens everywhere. They just don't excuse it anymore. They had enough over the years. So yes, while they know, they still hope for the Valhalla. Just to know fellow Chua, Human kind evolved to a very demanding, impatient and experienced specie and if you are a game developer you must take that in mind before you start building up your game. Else you ll end up hanging around only with Chua's :)
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Even waiting for fixes for things that have been bugged since Beta and it's almost 3 months in?
 
No, that's just being stupid.
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According to my friend who I played a little with thanks to the 7 days trial - the game is extremely boring, especially at the levels of 1-7.
 
How fun dungeons and end game is doesn't matter if one cannot push one self through the first parts of the game.	
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According to my friend who I played a little with thanks to the 7 days trial - the game is extremely boring, especially at the levels of 1-7.
 
How fun dungeons and end game is doesn't matter if one cannot push one self through the first parts of the game.
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According to my friend who I played a little with thanks to the 7 days trial - the game is extremely boring, especially at the levels of 1-7.
 
How fun dungeons and end game is doesn't matter if one cannot push one self through the first parts of the game.
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And what would make it less boring for Human and friend?
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I found leveling in this game to be extremely fun. Most people don't stop to smell the roses and read the quest dialogue, which is a mistake. It's HILARIOUS! Even hitting endgame dungeons and adventures are still fun. Creating a suit and build with mad deepz is fun.
 
The only downside I have is that things don't feel rewarding and there's loads of content in this game that is obsolete to complete or just has no reward value.
 
Public events in general give garbage, World Bosses need to give out something, Dungeons and Adventures should see more of a gold return rather than drain, the best way to make reliable money shouldn't be from farming thickets, grinding mobs should be more rewarding with gold, path missions are a total waste of time and a host of other things I'll probably make a separate thread about. It's not that this game doesn't have a alot of stuff to do, it just doesn't have a lot of stuff that feels like you SHOULD do it or even need to.
 
Coming out with more zones and instances is always great but I feel like Carbine has a lot of quality content now that's just a complete waste of time but could be fun if more people were interested in it with quality incentives to do it.	
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SWTOR launched with bugs that made it literally unplayable; FFXIV launched with enough bugs to force the game to literally have to be remade.
 
Wildstars got it's share of bugs... but compared to it's contemporaries; they are mild and being taken care of with surprising rapidity. 
 
We the players still need to communicate the worst of these bugs to the devs (forums are great for that, as are /bug reports in-game). But mass QQ fests and unfocused negativity are literally useless. 
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guessing you missed the launch of ESO for unplayable.
 
just curious since I never encountered any, but what bugs made SWTOR unplayable at launch?
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I agree about ESO. As for SWTOR imho skill delay was game breaking as it was optimization too.
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I found leveling in this game to be extremely fun. Most people don't stop to smell the roses and read the quest dialogue, which is a mistake. It's HILARIOUS! Even hitting endgame dungeons and adventures are still fun. Creating a suit and build with mad deepz is fun.
 
The only downside I have is that things don't feel rewarding and there's loads of content in this game that is obsolete to complete or just has no reward value.
 
Public events in general give garbage, World Bosses need to give out something, Dungeons and Adventures should see more of a gold return rather than drain, the best way to make reliable money shouldn't be from farming thickets, grinding mobs should be more rewarding with gold, path missions are a total waste of time and a host of other things I'll probably make a separate thread about. It's not that this game doesn't have a alot of stuff to do, it just doesn't have a lot of stuff that feels like you SHOULD do it or even need to.
 
Coming out with more zones and instances is always great but I feel like Carbine has a lot of quality content now that's just a complete waste of time but could be fun if more people were interested in it with quality incentives to do it.
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I found leveling in this game to be extremely fun. Most people don't stop to smell the roses and read the quest dialogue, which is a mistake. It's HILARIOUS! Even hitting endgame dungeons and adventures are still fun. Creating a suit and build with mad deepz is fun.
 
The only downside I have is that things don't feel rewarding and there's loads of content in this game that is obsolete to complete or just has no reward value.
 
Public events in general give garbage, World Bosses need to give out something, Dungeons and Adventures should see more of a gold return rather than drain, the best way to make reliable money shouldn't be from farming thickets, grinding mobs should be more rewarding with gold, path missions are a total waste of time and a host of other things I'll probably make a separate thread about. It's not that this game doesn't have a alot of stuff to do, it just doesn't have a lot of stuff that feels like you SHOULD do it or even need to.
 
Coming out with more zones and instances is always great but I feel like Carbine has a lot of quality content now that's just a complete waste of time but could be fun if more people were interested in it with quality incentives to do it.
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			6 months time, if this still around, i'd love to see how carbine handles the mass exodus of players and the ghost town servers.	
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6 months time, if this still around, i'd love to see how carbine handles the mass exodus of players and the ghost town servers.
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6 months time, if this still around, i'd love to see how carbine handles the mass exodus of players and the ghost town servers.
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Will you be here in 6 months?
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Unless they do something about the ghost town servers (Even Pergo is pretty empty) I will not be here in 1 month
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Oh sweet lord Jesus, I can't read any more of these "I'm giving this game x months until it goes down" or "I wantz fix NAU!" -_-
 
 
Take a look around: WoW doesn't have any new content for a f'cking year now ( which isn't the first time), SWTOR F2P version is nothing more than a trial version, GW2 finally decided, after two long years, to implement some permanent content. ESO was also doomed and gloomed by a lot of folks. Final Fantasy had to be taken down and revamped. But how come those games are still going strong? :blink:
 
Because every *cupcake* MMO has its issues and as a player you know that.
 
As a player you decide if you wanna stick with the game at launch or not. Feels like we still have some leftovers of MMO sluts, who cannot stick with one so they *cupcake* through all MMOs. Guess they'll stay until a new MMO/Add-On comes out, so that they can continue their pilgrimage.
 
All those players screaming "I'm going back to WoW, it's way bettah", you reek of hypocrisy, it's not funny anymore. A game that gives you subs, a cash shop and let's you wait for new content a *cupcake* year, is better? Then please don't complain about these devs, because they are addressing things and actually don't take a whole *cupcake* year to give you content and bug fixes, just to tell you at the end:   It's an expansion, please pay for it. :rolleyes:
 
Anyone who's sticking with Wildstar right now sees the huge potential in this game and sees devs, who really are working their ass off giving their players as much as possible. One hopes/knows that this patience and loyalty will be worth it at the end.
 
Content wise it's getting bigger, it's permanent content and we don't have to pay 10 bucks extra, so that you're allowed to write in the zone chat.
 
When I started playing WoW, there were just as many people in Ironforge like here in Thayd and nobody was screaming that the game is dying back then. 8 years from then, WoW has grown to be one of the most successful MMOs of all time. :o
 
Give the devs a break, it's a new studio, a new IP and most of them are probably virgins to the MMO development scene. :wub:
 
moderator edit: content 
			
				
	Edited August 17, 2014 by Chillia	
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{| class="blockquote"
But how come those games are still going strong? :blink:
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{| class="blockquote"
Two words:
 
Brand recognition.
 
All of the games you listed have it.
Wildstar doesn't have it.
 
Why do you think video game publishers and Hollywood are both so desperate to shoehorn all their new productions into existing franchises?
Because the masses want that "oh I know this stuff!"-effect.
It's ridiculous, but it's true.
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I really like Wildstar, but the numbers are bleak. Wildstar released at the perfect time. WoW was getting boring and the expac was still months away. The were no other big games that released at the same time. It had all the advantages in the world. Yet, it still did not start that big and has failed to keep subscribers.
 
I think this has to do with three things: attunement, gear drops and difficulty of dungeons.
 
First, attunement sucks. I have been a progression raider in several games and I have all but given up raiding here because the attunement process is so boring and repetitive. This was a new game. Bringing back an early MMO concept that has died, was a terrible idea. 
 
Second, the gear drops a terrible. You spend time playing and don't feel like you a getting anywhere. I don't mind devoting time to dungeons and adventures for gear, but I do mind never seeing any gear. Again, eventually, you will abandon the game for something fun and more familiar.
 
Finally, the vet dungeons are too difficult (someone recently said this had been fixed. Maybe so, but who knows? People have stopped running them). Dungeons should be manageable by pugs. Aft one or two wipes, they should start to get easier as gear improves. Raids can be as difficult as you want to make them. That's fine. Having vet dungeons tuned that difficult is a bad idea.
 
I am sure many hardcore raiders will disagree, but I was a hardcore raider. Probably more hardcore that any of the epeeners. I recognize that no game will do well catering only to the hardcore. It might survive, but it will never thrive the way WoW has thrived. For all of the complaints about the biggest most popular MMO, it has stood the test of time (though MoP almost succeeded in killing it). Wildstar does NOT need to be like WoW, but it should have taken the hard lessons that WoW learned along the way and adopted them.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I really like Wildsta
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{| class="blockquote"
This is the only thing that matters. Ignore the rest and it will take care of itself.
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{| class="blockquote"
Probably more hardcore that any of the epeeners.
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{| class="blockquote"
What marketing?!  Seriously, other than a few website advertisements such as full-page ads on MMORPG.com and others, I have yet to see any MAJOR marketing for Wildstar that has even attempted to get an inkling of interest from passer-bys.  
 
Where's the commercials?
Where's the "Free Trial" disc on Gamestop counters?
Where's the actor/actress stating that play this game as XX class doing some space cowboy stuff?
 
 
The assumption that spent more than $10,000 on advertisement max would be laughable.   They invest all the time, resources, and effort into a new IP in the West and bank on it's success, but totally fail on propertly selling the product!  Why is that?!
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			Rowsdower, 6am PST in thayd im only one here. did /who came up with 16 exiles and only 8 50's.	
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Saturday, 10pm Central Time, Orias.
 	
----
			
Saturday 15:39 Lightspire
 	
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{| class="blockquote"
Saturday, 10pm Central Time, Orias.
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Olivar dude thats not a busy screenshot i mean just look at it yes your in a raid with 18 other people but thats nothing special in an MMO just for those wandering what the M's stand for MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME 18 people does not equate to massive and if it does maybe they need to rewrite the definition.
 
Think you have posted something like this before and i facepalmed then but resisted posting but a second time.. pleaasee open zem peepers and stop being so *cupcake* about defending the game its an awesome game i love it to bits but defending the whole server population is like trying to see ice to an eskimo	
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{| class="blockquote"
Saturday, 10pm Central Time, Orias.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
*Generic "MY server is fine!" post*
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{| class="blockquote"
Whatever.
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			Ouch those are some sad looking screenshots. I haven't actually logged in since before the PVP drop but back then Scorch was always on Cd because he was pulled the second he spawned. Sad to see how far it has fallen.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I thought Olivar was showing how bad his server was too?
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			Is sunday, normally have Exile group there too	
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{| class="blockquote"
Olivar dude thats not a busy screenshot i mean just look at it yes your in a raid with 18 other people but thats nothing special in an MMO just for those wandering what the M's stand for MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME 18 people does not equate to massive and if it does maybe they need to rewrite the definition.
 
Think you have posted something like this before and i facepalmed then but resisted posting but a second time.. pleaasee open zem peepers and stop being so *cupcake* about defending the game its an awesome game i love it to bits but defending the whole server population is like trying to see ice to an eskimo
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{| class="blockquote"
If his server can get a raid, yours probably can too. 
 
1. Advertise in the blighthaven/grimvault chat
2. Advertise in your main faction's city
3. Advertise in player housing map
and 
4. Advertise in the connected chat of daily zones
 
^
 
That's how you get a party.
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{| class="blockquote"
Is sunday, normally have Exile group there too
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{| class="blockquote"
If his server can get a raid, yours probably can too.
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			errm what are you on about Mirta i never said that i couldnt find a group 0.o all i was commenting on was how empty his "full" screenshot actually was nothing more nothing less maybe dont be so quick to attack and well read?	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
 
Give the devs a break, it's a new studio, a new IP and most of them are probably virgins to the MMO development scene.  :wub:
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{| class="blockquote"
Yeah....no.  If a new burger joint opens in my town, advertising Super Special Jalapeno Burgers, recipe 9+ years in the making, and I go there opening night and the burgers are terrible, I do *NOT* keep going back for lunch every day just to see if the recipe has been perfected yet. I'll go to a burger joint I know (Five Guys, preferably) even if I've gone there lots and am kind of bored with their offerings, because I know the burger will be edible.  
 
I'll wait for someone else to keep trying the Hot Hot Meat place and they can tell me when it's edible, and I'll consider coming back.  Doesn't matter if the burger flippers are "burger virgins" or not. Either they've got a burger I want to eat at a price I want to pay, or they don't. This is a business, not a charity, and no one owes Carbine anything.
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{| class="blockquote"
If his server can yours probably can too is a fallacy. The servers / realms are isolated from one another and can have a huge variance in population. It only gets worse and worse as the population declines and people move for higher ground. I'd say right now my server isn't quite under water, but my feet are wet.
 
The overall health of the game isn't determined by a few out of the many servers being "ok".
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't think that a single server is below 15 people online at the same time.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I didn't realize that "15 people online at the same time" was the metric for "everything's fine".
 
*facepalm*
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Not "everything is fine"
but the statement stands
if a person wants to do Scorchwing, there most definitely should be at least 15 people online at the same time and no matter how low the server is, they should be able to produce at least 1 party.
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{| class="blockquote"
That's about the weakest attempt at a strawman I've seen in awhile. Maybe the White Knight population is also declining.
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{| class="blockquote"
Well 
 
1. Person posts a picture of being alone at Scorchwing. They probably want to do Scrochwing. 
2. Another person posts a picture of having a raid to do Scrochwing
3. I post some tips on how to get people to come to Scrochwing
4. You call the statement a falacy
5. I say that every server should have at least 15 people online. 
6. You call that a strawman. 
 
I never argued that the population was okay. My argument was that a party for Scrochwing is still possible.
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{| class="blockquote"
Yeah....no.  If a new burger joint opens in my town, advertising Super Special Jalapeno Burgers, recipe 9+ years in the making, and I go there opening night and the burgers are terrible, I do *NOT* keep going back for lunch every day just to see if the recipe has been perfected yet. I'll go to a burger joint I know (Five Guys, preferably) even if I've gone there lots and am kind of bored with their offerings, because I know the burger will be edible.  
 
I'll wait for someone else to keep trying the Hot Hot Meat place and they can tell me when it's edible, and I'll consider coming back.  Doesn't matter if the burger flippers are "burger virgins" or not. Either they've got a burger I want to eat at a price I want to pay, or they don't. This is a business, not a charity, and no one owes Carbine anything.  
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This is incredibly silly. The solo pic was taken during off-hours, probably by some one with out a decent guild. Even on Orias ('Low' pop) there are always groups around for Scorch / tree / Elyona during the times most people actually play. 
 
I can go take an empty screenshot of any world boss in any game no matter how high the populations are as long as I do it during off times; and I can also log in and call up guildies / circle folks for Scorch when people are off of work / during normal play times.
 
 
There are actual population issues on W*; most of them have to do with player concurrency, not # of people playing / subbed. 
 
My advice; if you wan't to play with other people, join a decent guild. 
 
EDIT: Just realized, that pic was posted from Orias... I'm calling 100% Bullsh!t, just a little while after it was taken (~11:15-11:45 pm CST) Scorch was taken down (I was there, got a bland pair of gloves for my effort). Zoom, if you need a guild there are a few good ones on Orias, generally they communicate and will hit BH when there are enough folks to rush all the dailies. We ended up doing scorch; then Elyona; then the tree. all roughly between 11:00 - 1:00. I'can recommend  some of the decent guilds on Dom. side in Orias if you need; My Exile toons are largely in small, personal guilds though so probably can't do much for ya there.
 
 
Also, as a P.S. Carbine is made up of developers who have worked on all of the best MMO's of the past 2 decades, (The core team at Carbine were Dev's for Vanilla WoW). You may not agree with their vision, but they are most definitely not 'MMO virgins'
			
				
	Edited August 17, 2014 by Nazryn	
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm calling 100% Bullsh!t, just a little while after it was taken (~11:15-11:45 pm CST) Scorch was taken down (I was there, got a bland pair of gloves for my effort).
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There is no point posting pictures etc. You just need to log and see for yourself. As we speak its prime time in EU and there are 16 low servers and 1 medium (Hazzak). Isn't that enough? What ppl must do? All who are in the 16 low servers should pay 17$ to move in Hazzak or pay to move to another low server? Can you pls give us a solution?
 
THERE IS ONLY ONE MEDIUM SERVER IN PRIME TIME. WHATS THE POINT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND?
 
Even if ppl want to pay for a transfer, they have only 1 choice. Either they will move to Hazzak, which is btw PvP only, or they will have to choose from the other 15 low ones...Stop being blind funboys. Face the fact once...	
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{| class="blockquote"
I take it you've never been around launchs?
Blizzard can be thankful they didn't release WoW in this time, people would've ripped it apart.
 
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{| class="blockquote"
There is no point posting pictures etc. You just need to log and see for yourself. As we speak its prime time in EU and there are 16 low servers and 1 medium (Hazzak). Isn't that enough? What ppl must do? All who are in the 16 low servers should pay 17$ to move in Hazzak or pay to move to another low server? Can you pls give us a solution?
 
THERE IS ONLY ONE MEDIUM SERVER IN PRIME TIME. WHATS THE POINT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND?
 
Even if ppl want to pay for a transfer, they have only 1 choice. Either they will move to Hazzak, which is btw PvP only, or they will have to choose from the other 15 low ones...Stop being blind funboys. Face the fact once...
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{| class="blockquote"
Nope, no BS. I was there, there was 0 people waiting for scorch. It was taken at 10PM CST (~1.25 - 1.75 hours before you were there)
 
Today (Sunday) at 1:37 PM, I stepped on the return portal from my housing and it dropped me directly underneath Scorch who was idling. I ran away, then let people know he was up. There was nobody waiting - not a single person. Someone started forming a group at 1:38, and at 14:13 (~30 minutes later) they FINALLY had enough to pull.
 
So again, no, it's not BS.
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{| class="blockquote"
I think the term you were looking for was Fanbois, though Funboys sounds like well fun, can I be a funboy *dance and sings* I'm a dirty little fun boy... *ahem* anyways
 
I will say this for the umpteenth millionth time. Mergers are not the answer, what They should do is what is called optional mergers where you open server X,Y,Z and allow them to transfer to server A for free (Now all of these would be low pop server, not to Hazak) then once enough people have filtered to Server A, lock characters from being created new on servers X,Y,and Z. then if the game see's a new population resurgence once they work out some bugs, streamline systems etc. Then reopen those locked servers.
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{| class="blockquote"
Sorry for my English.
Anyway, I don't care if the solution to server population problem is mergers, free transfers or whatever else. There must be a solution asap, that's the point. If they have a better solution then i ll be happy to hear it and even more happy to see them implement it. But there is nothing until now. No Dev response, no plan, no info, not anything to calm down ppl and reassure them they are not going to play in ghost towns for long.
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{| class="blockquote"
Sorry for my English.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
you do realize you just proved my point?
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{| class="blockquote"
According to my friend who I played a little with thanks to the 7 days trial - the game is extremely boring, especially at the levels of 1-7.
 
How fun dungeons and end game is doesn't matter if one cannot push one self through the first parts of the game.
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't think so. It took 30 minutes to even get enough people to pull.
 
In contrast, a month ago it was "what's the timer or scorch" and "how long until scorch is up" in the zone chat regularly. By the time he came up, there were already 40-50 people waiting to pull. So here's the progression:
 
30 days ago: Large group 40-50 ready to pull the second he spawns.
15 days ago: Smallish groups around when he spawns able to gather a largish group quickly at spawn.
0 days ago: Zero people around when he spawns, once a group stars to gather it takes a long time to form even a small group.
 
That's the pattern I'm trying to demonstrate.
 
So maybe you misunderstood me, maybe I didn't articulate it well, but I'm not trying to show a point-in-time issue but rather a comparison that indicates the decline over time of the population on the server. You seem to be suggesting that the population's fine, it's just that nobody's doing scorch anymore - maybe they're doing other things? In my opinion, that's not the case. (Especially given that Scorch is one of only 3 dailies in that zone)
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't think so. It took 30 minutes to even get enough people to pull.
 
In contrast, a month ago it was "what's the timer or scorch" and "how long until scorch is up" in the zone chat regularly. By the time he came up, there were already 40-50 people waiting to pull. So here's the progression:
 
30 days ago: Large group 40-50 ready to pull the second he spawns.
15 days ago: Smallish groups around when he spawns able to gather a largish group quickly at spawn.
0 days ago: Zero people around when he spawns, once a group stars to gather it takes a long time to form even a small group.
 
That's the pattern I'm trying to demonstrate.
 
So maybe you misunderstood me, maybe I didn't articulate it well, but I'm not trying to show a point-in-time issue but rather a comparison that indicates the decline over time of the population on the server. You seem to be suggesting that the population's fine, it's just that nobody's doing scorch anymore - maybe they're doing other things? In my opinion, that's not the case. (Especially given that Scorch is one of only 3 dailies in that zone)
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{| class="blockquote"
What part of "just wasn't something we equate to entertaining" meant incapable of completing Attunement to you?  It wasn't the difficulty it was the grindyness, addiction to RNG, and wretched Customer Service that killed WS for us.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
As for "never been around launchs (sic)," people ripped WoW apart at release, perhaps you weren't there.
----
			They should put their money where their $#@! is and replace the High, Medium, and Low with a simple count of who's online.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I haven't been around WoW Vanilla release. The difference, people were more forgiving back then. I don't know what the reason was for that, but nowadays the slightest mistake costs you a lot of image and money. Players to be understanding is like seeing a youngster carrying the bags of an elderly person. Or at least that's the impression I got.
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{| class="blockquote"
I found leveling in this game to be extremely fun. Most people don't stop to smell the roses and read the quest dialogue, which is a mistake. It's HILARIOUS! Even hitting endgame dungeons and adventures are still fun. Creating a suit and build with mad deepz is fun.
 
The only downside I have is that things don't feel rewarding and there's loads of content in this game that is obsolete to complete or just has no reward value.
 
Public events in general give garbage, World Bosses need to give out something, Dungeons and Adventures should see more of a gold return rather than drain, the best way to make reliable money shouldn't be from farming thickets, grinding mobs should be more rewarding with gold, path missions are a total waste of time and a host of other things I'll probably make a separate thread about. It's not that this game doesn't have a alot of stuff to do, it just doesn't have a lot of stuff that feels like you SHOULD do it or even need to.
 
Coming out with more zones and instances is always great but I feel like Carbine has a lot of quality content now that's just a complete waste of time but could be fun if more people were interested in it with quality incentives to do it.
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{| class="blockquote"
There's also the group that did take the time to smell the roses... the missus and I did.  Where some hit max-level in a few days to a week... we actually took our time and still hit max-level in just under a month.  We did lots of side-quests, tried out crafting (even in all its clunky-ness), built awesome housing plots -- decorated them -- maxed out the outside limits, etc... and we're still bored out of our mind.  Granted, questing/leveling for some was fun... but it seemed really dry and monotonous to us... often times it reminded us of the Perfect World grind, or other past grinds that were better left in the past.  To group this with what everybody keeps saying is "MMORPG burnout"... maybe SOME are burned out on MMORPGs, but not all.  There's still a lot of MMORPGs that we enjoy playing, and had hoped that Wildstar would live among them.  Granted they said it'd be "hardcore structured", but we, and I'm sure many others believed that was a sales-gimmick like many devs tend to do lately where "hardcore" meant more action-packed and fast-paced... and where it does mean those two things, it also means they brought back a lot of the old-school "hardcore" mechanics that were the crust trimmed off many of the former mmorpgs, like the crust off of a sandwich.  It's funny too... if considering it like a crust... some like chewy/soft crust, other's like hard/crunchy crust, and some don't like crust at all... so when trying to market to a broad-audience and attempt to be successful, why get lost in the semantics of "the crust" instead of focusing on the juicy-goodness that's the center of the sandwich?
 
I truly think what MMORPGs need more of, is world first with game/story/mechanics being a very close second... whereas now, it's been more game/story/mechanics first.  WoW and FFXIV: ARR do that (somewhat -- but could definitely still be expanded upon) right... even though there's somewhat of a general/set main story going in a path in a particular direction, there's still plenty of room to want to branch out, to want to explore (and yes, I explored in Wildstar, had every single map fully uncovered way before max-level -- I love exploration, just not the exploration path lol)... have more items in the world that are truly-interactive for the means of immersion -- and yes, I realize that means a lot more overhead code, larger files, more storage space and processing needed... but it's not like we're in a day and age that can't facilitate that.  Time to usher in true virtual-world MMORPGs (and no, I don't mean like Entropia or the others that tried making a Casino-World MMORPG)... Wildstar I think would have been awesome in such a sense... where different machines that are just scenery/props are actually interactive (and not just in housing either)... perhaps little arcade-machines with actual playable games, more parlor-esque games, more furniture/structures that are usable, more reasons to want to drive around like perhaps checkpoints at little encampments/outlying-towns that you have to be mounted to get through after checking in, etc.  Sometimes it's the little bits inside the sandwich that really do it the truest justice.
 
As it is, the planet Nexus is sadly, kind of dry... which is odd, because there is a lot to do in it when one truly thinks about it.  Just most of those things to do are mechanics centered around the direct gameplay/story and/or player-specific... not centered around flushing out the realism of the world itself.  I mean honestly, WS had tons of potential, and still may if they can recover it in time... I just sometimes have to stop and think to myself... sure, MMOs from 10 years ago were a blast to play, original WoW, Anarchy Online, Everquest 2, etc... but one thing that always kind of grated on me a bit, was that everything was typically background props... I'd see things that looked like neat machines, or furniture, or explorable areas... and think to myself, man I wish I could interact with that, or man I wish I could reach that spot to explore it... and it was all props.  But back then it was understandable... in this day and age, in some facets and instances it *might* be understandable... but just how much of the background really needs to be just props or closed-off buildings people can't go into, etc? :unsure:
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{| class="blockquote"
I haven't been around WoW Vanilla release. The difference, people were more forgiving back then. I don't know what the reason was for that, but nowadays the slightest mistake costs you a lot of image and money. Players to be understanding is like seeing a youngster carrying the bags of an elderly person. Or at least that's the impression I got.
----
			
Well, Played the game for awhile only to see the content...  capped at 50 then made a new toon.
 
Been there done that... all the exact same content all over again!  Woopie!
 
I would have canceled right away but I had work projects and got distracted.  Paid for another month by accident!!!   Bought like $80 in CREDD like a idiot (whale here)...
 
Either way, this game had virtually no AMD support and would run only in LOW / LOW / LOW settings (other MMO's in HIGH + Ultra level 100FPS no chop).   Went through their tech support peeps to no avail, they said that future updates would handle my system type (AMD Kavari + R9 Graphics)....  Well, that still has not happened.
 
Nobody I know plays anymore after about the first 3 weeks all had left.
 
Tabula Rasa was a WAAAY better game, btw!  So don't go putting Tabula Rasa down like that!
 
 
I want my money back!!! 
 
POS, Totally.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You're fighting the people who are calling for more "real" content (raids, PVP BGs) and the people who think bug fixes need to have anyone pulled from any content-driven team. The thing is, there's a lot out there. Lots of the challenges are very arcade-style. I've often asked for some other side games, racing, card playing, etc. that we can load into our plots. But I know these will take a long time because, obviously, major game bugs > balancing > new content > little knick knacks people like that can turn their housing plot into a casino or functional race track.
 
Luckily, I like dungeons as much as the next guy. I left FFXIV:ARR because the group experience felt so fluffy (by design, SE got burned by the group bug already). I'm willing to give Carbine time to get more random bullshit into the game as long as their core content is just as brutal (I won't be done until I'm on the other side of Datascape, content being just as brutal as today). But it's something I hope doesn't get lost in the shuffle. I would like my little card table on a box in my Warrior's garden to be used for actual poker.
 
And I really do want there to be high class card tables, roulette tables, and slot machines so someone can make an actual in-game casino. It would be so AWESOME on Evindra!
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Must thank the moderator for removing my posts.
Thank you.	
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Since NCSoft doesn't release numbers, here are some third party metrics to peruse.
 
Scroll way down to start at "3 June 2014", Wildstar debuted with the 2nd most successful launch since the data collection started (2012 I believe) and then from there... well go see for yourself.
 
Here's what the RAPTR folks have to say:
The new MMO WildStar lost seven spots in its second month of release — but more worryingly, gameplay was down 45.63%. We’ll see if its latest PvP game mode, Sabotage, launched on July 31, can help spur a rebound, though initial signs point towards probably not.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Since NCSoft doesn't release numbers, here are some third party metrics to peruse.
 
Scroll way down to start at "3 June 2014", Wildstar debuted with the 2nd most successful launch since the data collection started (2012 I believe) and then from there... well go see for yourself.
 
Here's what the RAPTR folks have to say:
The new MMO WildStar lost seven spots in its second month of release — but more worryingly, gameplay was down 45.63%. We’ll see if its latest PvP game mode, Sabotage, launched on July 31, can help spur a rebound, though initial signs point towards probably not.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Since NCSoft doesn't release numbers, here are some third party metrics to peruse.
 
Scroll way down to start at "3 June 2014", Wildstar debuted with the 2nd most successful launch since the data collection started (2012 I believe) and then from there... well go see for yourself.
 
Here's what the RAPTR folks have to say:
The new MMO WildStar lost seven spots in its second month of release — but more worryingly, gameplay was down 45.63%. We’ll see if its latest PvP game mode, Sabotage, launched on July 31, can help spur a rebound, though initial signs point towards probably not.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Since NCSoft doesn't release numbers, here are some third party metrics to peruse.
 
Scroll way down to start at "3 June 2014", Wildstar debuted with the 2nd most successful launch since the data collection started (2012 I believe) and then from there... well go see for yourself.
 
Here's what the RAPTR folks have to say:
The new MMO WildStar lost seven spots in its second month of release — but more worryingly, gameplay was down 45.63%. We’ll see if its latest PvP game mode, Sabotage, launched on July 31, can help spur a rebound, though initial signs point towards probably not.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Wait, how is Wildstar only .08% off FFXIV:ARR (which has several million subs) and leaps and bounds ahead of TESO, which appears to be down to #26 on the list (off the bottom of the top 20).
 
Wildstar can't be doing that well given what we know, I can't even imagine them being THAT close to FFXIV:ARR given how well that game is doing.  I mean, I may think Wildstar is better and I may not play FFXIV anymore, but that's a solid game with a solid fanbase.
 
I just think these metrics are off.
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't know if a direct game-to-game comparison works that well, different games are more popular in different territories and raptr's userbase probably varies as well.
 
However, Wildstar's decline over time from the sample set is more comparable...
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't know if a direct game-to-game comparison works that well, different games are more popular in different territories and raptr's userbase probably varies as well.
 
However, Wildstar's decline over time from the sample set is more comparable...
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