natgillin/translations-raw huggingface dataset:
Formanden. — Jeg må desværre meddele Parlamentet, at rådsformanden, hr. van den Broek på grund af de dårlige vejrforhold ikke vil kunne komme til stede før ca. kl. 11.00.
President. — I am sorry to have to tell the House that, as a result of poor weather conditions, the Council representative, Mr Van den Broek, will be unable to arrive before 11 a.m.
Samarbejdsaftalen har givet os parlamentarikere mu lighed for at skabe kontakter med derværenede parlamentarikere, pleje kontakter og hjælpe med til, at sådanne fanger er blevet løsladt, Og jeg er stadig meget glad over, at det lykkedes at hjælpe politiske fanger i Malaysia og i Singapore til friheden takket være personlige kontakter, som medlemmer af Euro pa-Parlamentets ASEAN-delegation opretholder.
May I remind you that in Malaysia, in Indonesia, in Singapore, many people are locked in prison without trial because they are in opposition, because the ruling regime does not like them.
Newens (S). — (EN) Alle, der beskæftiger sig med fattigdom og udvikling i den tredje verden, skal be skæftige sig med problemerne i Pakistan, der er et af de fattigste lande i verden.
The cooperation agree ments have given us MEPs the chance to come into contact with MPs over there, to keep in contact with them and to contribute towards the release of those prisoners.
Normalt ville det absolut være rigtigt af os at fremme samhandelen og tilvejebringe hjælp i så stor udstrækning som muligt for at hjælpe landet med at hæve befolkningens levestandard. dard.
And I am still very pleased that it proved possible to help political prisoners in Malaysia and Singapore to regain their freedom thanks to personal contacts with members of the ASEAN delegation of this Parliament.
Med hensyn til menneskerettigheder kan der imidlertid ikke være tvivl om de forfærdende handlinger fra det regimes side, der har været ved magten i de sidste
Grand resolutions that we can adopt here in plenary get us nowhere in this question. On the contrary,
Store beslutninger, som vi kan vedtage her i Parlamentet, fører overhovedet ikke til noget i dette spørgsmål.
Mr Newens (S). — All of us who are concerned about poverty and development in the Third World must be concerned about the problems of Pakistan as one of the poorest countries in the world.
Tværtimod, den, der kender den asiatiske mentalitet, ved, at det at bevare ansigtet spiller en kolossal rolle der.
In the normal course of events it would be certainly right for us to promote trade and provide aid to the maximum extent possible to assist that country to raise the standards of living of its population.
Har vi nu glemt alle disse ting?
Have we now forgotten all those things?
Vi i Parlamentet, der er villige til uden tøven at udtale os til fordel for kønnenes ligestilling og religiøse minoriteter, bør er­kende, at der i Pakistan er visse uhyrlige love i kraft, love som f.eks. fastsættelsen af erstatning for volds­forbrydelser, der tildeles muslimske mænd med et dobbelt så stort beløb som det, der er fastsat til mus­limske kvinder eller ikke­muslimer — fuldstændig uacceptabelt !
We in this Parliament, who are will ing to speak out for equality of the sexes and for religious minorities, need to recognize that there are still in force in Pakistan some appalling laws, laws like the fixing of compensation for crimes of violence which allot for a Moslem male twice the sum set for a woman or a non-Moslem — totally unacceptable!
I juli 1977, da præseident Zia ul­Haq tog mag­ten, blev de demokratiske frihedsrettigheder og men­neskerettighederne trådt under fode, Parlamentet og provinsforsamlingerne blev opløst, forfatningen af 1973 blev sat ud af kraft, politiske ledere blev arre­steret, præsident Bhutto blev hængt, fængsling, offent­lig piskning, hårdt arbejde og bødestraf blev de per­soner idømt, der protesterede, og i tusindvis af men­nesker blev tvunget til at flygte til udlandet, hvor mange af dem stadig befinder sig.
In July 1977, when President Zia Ul-Haq seized power, democratic freedoms and human rights were trampled underfoot. Parliament and provincial assemblies were dissolved, the 1973 Constitution was suspended, political leaders were arrested, President Bhutto was hanged, imprisonment, public floggings, hard labour and punitive fines were imposed on those who pro tested, and thousands of people were forced to flee abroad, where many of them remain to this day.
Løfter om at afhol­de valg og genindsætte en lovligt valgt regering blev brudt gang på gang.
Promises to hold elections and restore a legitimatelyelected government were broken time and time again.
At antyde, at alle disse åbenlyse overtrædelser af menneskerettighederne er blevet slettet gennem udviklingen i det seneste år, er efter min mening fuldstændig uacceptabelt.
To suggest that all these flagrant infringements of human rights have all been wiped out by the develop ments of the last year is, in my view, totally unacceptable. ble.
Det er rigtigt, at der fandt valg sted i 1985, men jeg spørger Parlamentet, hvordan det kan blive betragtet som et frit valg?
It is true that elections took place in 1985, but I ask this Assembly, how can they be regarded as free elections?
Den militære undtagelsestilstand var stadig i kraft på det tidspunkt.
Martial law at that time was still in force.
Mange af opposition­spartiernes ledere blev arresteret nogle få dage før valget, hvis de overhovedet var i landet.
Many leaders of the opposition parties were arrested a few days before the election, if they were in the country at all.
Udendørs politiske akticiteter blev forbudt.
Outdoor political activities were banned.
Politiet og hærpat­ruljer var aktive under hele valgperioden, og i hund­redevis af mennesker blev arresteret i den periode.
The police and army patrols were active throughout the whole of the election period, and hundreds of people were arrested during that time.
Hr. Cheysson sagde ret klart, ligesom andre talere, der ønsker at godkende aftaler, har sagt ret klart, at den reelle grund til, at de ønsker at gå videre nu, er ønsket om at opnå en strategisk balance over for USSR i regionen og støtte vestlige interesser i Afgha­nistan.
Mr Cheysson made it quite clear, as certain other speakers who want to approve the agreement have made it clear, that the real reason for wishing to go ahead now is the wish to achieve a strategic balance against the USSR in the region and to support West ern interests in Afghanistan.
Det viser absolut klart nogle af de reelle moti­ver med hensyn til situationen i Afghanistan.
It certainly shows clearly some of the real motives concerning the situation in Afghanistan.
Det motiv prioriteres højere end hensynet til menneske­rettigheder.
This motive is being given priority over concern with human rights.
Det er efter min mening helt utilfredsstil­lende, og vi skal derfor enten forsøge at udskyde den­ne aftale i et halvt år for at se, om demokratiet genindføres, eller, hvis det nedstemmes, vil vi forsøge at forkaste aftalen på stedet.
That, to my mind, is totally unsatisfactory, and we must therefore either seek to postpone this agreement for six months to see whether democracy is restored or, if that is voted down, then we shall seek to reject the argeement out right.
Hr Zarges sagde, at socialisterne har en anden men­neskerettighedskodeks for venstreorienterede lande.
Mr Zarges said that the Socialists have a different code of human rights for left-wing countries.
Jeg siger til ham helt alvorligt, at han vist bør se på sin egen holdning til dette spørgsmål. Det samme gælder andre, der har slået til lyd for, at vi bør under­skrive denne aftale nu.
I say to him quite seriously that I believe he needs to look at his own position on this question, as do others who have advocated that we should sign this particular agreement at this time.
Hvis valget i Nicaragua sidste år havde fundet sted under forhold, der ligner dem, der er fremherskende i Pakistan, havde partierne til højre i Parlamentet været totalt imod det og havde erklæret det fuldstændig ugyldigt.
If elections had taken place in Nicaragua last year in conditions similar to those prevailing in Pakistan, the parties on the right in this Par liament would have been in full cry against them and would have declared them totally invalid.
Jeg vil gerne anmo­de om, at vi meget klart overvejer at anvende det samme grundlag i begge tilfælde.
I want to ask that we consider very clearly indeed the application of the same standards in both cases.
Hvis vi gør noget andet, ville det efter min opfattelse være et groft forræderi mod alle de modige paki­stanere, der er gået i brechen for demokratiet gennem de sidste 8 Vi år, undertiden på bekostning af deres personlige frihed, undertiden på bekostning af deres ret til at bo i Pakistan, og i visse tilfælde med livet som indsats.
For us to do otherwise would, in my view, be a gross betrayal of all those brave Pakistanis who have stood up for democracy over the past 8V2 years, sometimes at the cost of their personal freedom, sometimes at the cost of their right to live in Pakistan and, in some cases, at the cost of their lives.
Ser vi på en letkøbt måde bort fra folk, der er gået i brechen for vore idealer, fordi det padder de vestlige strategiske interesser?
Do we dispense with people who have stood up for our ideals so cheaply because it suits Western strategic interests?
Parlamentet har tid­ligere stået fast på sine meninger i andre spørgsmål vedrørende menneskerettigheder i Tyrkiet og andre steder.
This Par liament has stood firm in the past on other issues of human rights in Turkey and elsewhere.
Jeg mener, det er bydende nødvendigt, at det står fast i dette spørgsmål her i dag!
I believe it is imperative that it stands firm on this issue here today!
Med hensyn til Pakistan kan jeg ikke se, hvordan vi kan sige, at de borgerlige rettigheder og politiske fri­hedsrettigheder er blevet tilstrækkeligt forbedret i denne fase til at forsvare en holdningsændring fra EFs side.
If we are in this House genuinely concerned about the influence of Western democratic values in this region, then surely we should not be seen to put them on one side in deference to Western strategic interests and in an effort to keep in line with the United States.
Præsident Zia er stadig ved magten, og ved at sige, at vi nu bør indgå en samarbejdsaftale, skal vi så se stort på historien og acceptere alle hændelserne i de sidste 8'Λ år som berettigede? Ville vi sige det i f.eks.
Mr Cheysson cited what the United States was doing as far as Pakistan is concerned.
Mange modstandere af regimet tør ikke vende tilbage til Pakistan.
I believe it should be based on the issues of human rights.
Hvis de vender tilbage — nogle af dem — er der ingen garanti for, at de vil få en virkelig politisk frihed der. Er alle de barbariske islamiske love ikke igen blevet glemt, når folk taler om dette som et land, der ikke har været berørt af muslimsk fanatisme?
This is, then, an occasion when the European Parliament should stand out for a different policy.
Hvis vi i Parlamentet virkelig er optaget af de vestlige demokratiske værdiers indflydelse i denne region, bør vi absolut ikke tilsidesætte dem af hensyn til de vest­lige strategiske interesser og som et forsøg på at holde sig i overensstemmelse med De forenede Stater.
With regard to Pakistan, I cannot see how we can say that civil rights and political freedoms are sufficiently improved at this stage to justify a change of attitude on the part of the EEC.
Hr. Cheysson nævnte, hvad De forenede Stater var i færd med at foretage sig for Pakistans vedkommende.
President Zia is still in power, and by saying that we should now conclude a cooperation agreement, are we supposed to turn over a page of history and accept that all the events of the last 8 Vi years were justified?
Jeg betragter ikke det som nogen grund til, at EF følger i kølvandet af dem: vi burde udforme vor egen politik i disse spørgsmål.
Would we say that in the case of Chile, for example, if President Pinochet remained in power?
Jeg mener, den bør være baseret på spørgsmålet om menneskerettigheder.
Let us bear in mind that large numbers of political prisoners still to this day remain in gaol.
Dette er så en lejlighed, hvor Europa­Parlamentet bør gå i brechen for en anden politik.
If they do return — some of them — there is no guarantee that they will be able to exercise genuine political freedom there.
Jeg mener, at vi bør støtte ændringsforslaget om at udskyde enhver afgørelse om samarbejdsaftalen i et halvt år, da dette er den eneste måde, vi kan være sikre på at opretholde presset på de pakistanske myndigheder.
Again, have all the barbaric Islamic laws been forgotten when people speak of this not being a country that has been concerned with Moslem fanatiscism?
Jeg ønsker at minde Parlamentet om, at den islami­ske lovgivningsforordning fra februar 1979 foreskrev piskning, amputering, stening til døde for ægteskabs­brud, henrettelse og andre rædselsvækkende straffe.
I want to remind this House that the Islamic Legislative Ordinance of February 1979 prescribed flogging,
Vi ønsker forbindelser, der ikke blot er handelsmæssige, økonomiske og rent faktisk politiske med Pakistan for at opmuntre landet i dets demokratiseringsproces, men landet interesserer os også på grund af dets holdning til en række spørgsmål.
Not only do we wish to have commercial, economic and, in fact, political relations with Pakistan to encourage it in its process of democratization but we are also going there because this country is of interest to us in view of its position on a number of problems.
Det er en moderat islamisk stat, idet den faktisk har afvist integristerne.
It is a moderate Moslem country, it is a fj.ct that it has rejected the fundamentalists.
Dernæst opretholder landet forbindelser med både Iran og Irak.
It is also a fact that it has relations with both Iran and Iraq.
Og også dets plads inden for den islamiske konference betyder meget.
It has a position which matters in the Islamic Conference.
Jeg mener, at det er ganske fejlagtigt, og at det modsatte er tilfældet. Hvis dette ændringsforslag nedstemmes, bør vi derfor stemme imod selve samarbejdsaftalen, da det er den eneste måde, vi har, til at gøre det klart, at der er nogle i Parlamentet, der ikke er indstillet på at lægge deres demokratiske idealer på hylden for at støtte de vestlige strategiske interesser.
amendment is voted down, we should therefore vote against the cooperative agreement itself, because that will be the only way left to us to make it clear that there are some of us in this Parliament who are not prepared to shelve their democratic ideals in order to support Western strategic interests.
Vor oprigtighed og styrken af vor troskab mod principperne om frihed og demokrati vil klart blive demonstreret under den afstemning, der finder sted om denne betænkning her i dag.
Our sincerity and the strength of our adherence to the principles of free dom and democracy will be clearly demonstrated in the vote which takes place on this report here today.
Jeg håber meget, at hele Parlamentet vil tænke sig meget grundigt om og støtte ændringsforslaget eller i modsat fald stemme imod denne aftale.
I very much hope that the whole of this House will think very carefully and support the amendment or, if not, vote against this agreement.
Cheysson, medlem af Kommissionen. — (FR) Fru formand, allerførst vil jeg gerne have lov til at nævne nogle fejl. der er begået af de forskellige talere.
Mr Cheysson, Member of the Commission. — (FR) With your leave, Madam President, I will start by pointing out a few errors made by some of the speak ers.
Det er et land, der blandt mange andre siger, at Euro pas nærværelse er nødvendig som modvægt mod De forenede Stater, siger Pakistan, mod De forenede Stater og Sovjetunionen, siger Indien, og mod De forene de Stater og Japan, siger Singapore, og Europa har altid reagerelet på denne anmodning.
It is a country which, in common with many others, tells us that the presence of Europe is needed as a counterweight: to counterbalance the presence of the United States, says Pakistan, the presence of the United States and the Soviet Union, says India, the presence of the United States and Japan, says Singapore. Europe has always responded to appeals along these lines.
Vi udgør en ligevægtsfaktor i verden, fordi vi er verdens største handelsmagt, fordi vi støtter alle landes uafhængig hed, hvert enkelt lands ret til at vælge sin skæbne og sin fremtid.
We are an influence for balance in the world, because we are the world's leading trading power, because we support each individual country's independence, its right to control its destiny, to decide its own future.
Når et land over for os erklærer, at det ud over en eller to store pengeleverandører også har brug for Europa, så synes jeg, at der er en politisk fejl at afvise en sådan anmodning.
When a country tells us that it needs Europe to counterbalance the influence of one or per haps two suppliers of funds, I consider that it would be a political error to decline its request.
Det vil jeg gerne understrege. derstrege.
That is some thing that bears repeating.
Hvad har vi at gøre i Pakistan?
What are we going to do in Pakistan?
Fru formand, et af de grundlæggende principper i Fællesskabets politik — og denne forhandling er afslørende for Fællesskabets politik — er, at vi overalt i verden opmuntrer til regional integration.
Madam President, one of the fundamental principles of Community policy — yes, this debate does give an insight into the Community's policies — is that we encourage regional integration in all parts of the world.
Overalt i verden foreslår vi na bolande at forsøge på at løse deres problemer, konflikter og undertiden krige indbyrdes og uden indgreb fra udenforstående magters side, overalt i verden støtter vi systematisk regionale samarbejdsbestræbelser.
We recommend neighbouring countries everywhere in the world to try to settle their disputes, their conflicts or even their wars by their own efforts, between themselves, with out any intervention from external powers. Every where in the world, systematically, we support efforts to promote regional cooperation.
Jeg skal komme tilbage til dette punkt, som jeg var inde på i mit første indlæg.
I stressed this in my first speech, but it bears repeating.
Undtagelsestilstanden indførtes i 1965 og opretholdtes af præsident Bhutto i den tid, han var Pakistans præsident.
The state of emergency had been in force since 1965. It had been maintained by President Ali Bhutto throughout the years during which he was in power in Pakistan.
Nu er den ophævet. Formelt er vi derfor kommet længere med demokratiseringsprocessen end under Bhutto. Det er en kendsgerning.
It has now been lifted.
Jeg har ikke sagt, at vi dermed har nået målet.
But I did not say that this meant that the objective has been attained.
På en måde står vi endnu langt fra det, og pakistanerne, der er glade for den civile regering, en helt civil regering, trænger til opmuntring.
In one sense it is still a long way off, and it is for us to give encouragement to Pakistanis who are committed to civilian government, which means the whole of the government.
Hele den pakistanske regering er nu vivil og ansvarlig over for parlamentet, der er valgt, dog uden lovlig deltagelse af politiske partier.
The whole of the present Pakistani Government is made up of civilians and it is accountable to the Parliament, in the elections to which political parties were not allowed any voice.
Vi har bemærket denne uregelmæssighed, der bliver rettet ved kommunevalget i 1987, men jeg understreger for at svare et medlem, at det er et valgt parlament, der har toogtredive kvinde lige medlemmer, hvilket er en interessant nyskabelse i Pakistan.
This anomaly, which was among the points we raised, will be rectified in the local elections to be held in 1987, but it is an elected parliament and one which, in response to a point raised by an honourable Member during this debate, includes 32 women, and that is an interesting new development in Pakistan. There has been progress, therefore, but not enough.
Altså sker der fremskridt, om end de er utilstrækkelige.
What is the difference, then, between the Commission's position as I have explained it and that of one of the large groups in this House?
Vi gjorde det i ASEAN, selv om Filippinerne havde det nokså bekendte styre.
We did so with ASEAN, despite the nature of the regime in the Philippines.
Vi gør det i Mellemamerika, selv om nogle mellemamerikanske — højre- som venstreorienterede — lande fortsat frembyder utilstrækkeligheder i deres demokratiseringsproces.
We are doing so in Central America although a number of countries in that region, on both right and left, as yet still have further progress to make in the democratic process.
Vi gør det med hele det sorte Afrika, og jeg behøver vist ikke at sige hvilke lande i det sorte Afrika, der har en styreform, som vi under ingen omstændigheder kan acceptere.
We are doing it throughout black Africa, and there is no need for me to remind you which black African countries have regimes of which we could not approve under any circumstances.
Overalt i verden opmuntrer vi til regional integration.
Throughout the world we give encouragement to regional integration.
Nu er den sydasiatiske sammenslutning oprettet.
We have now seen the formation of the South Asian Association.
Den er af grundlæggende betydning for Bangladesh og vil muliggøre det for Indien og Pakistan regelmæssigt at mødes i en lang række anliggender.
This Association is of fundamental importance to Bangladesh. This Association will bring India and Pakistan together on a regular basis to discuss a wide variety of problems.
Det bør vi opmuntre, det er klart, og det vil ikke være ved forskelsbehandling af landene, at vi vil give dem den opmuntring.
We must encourage it, that is obvious, and discriminating between the countries concerned is no way to give such encouragement.
Derfor bør vi støtte den re gionale integration i Sydasien.
South Asia's efforts to develop regional integration therefore deserve our support.
Men hvori består da forskellen mellem Kommissionens holdning, således som jeg har fremført den, og opfattelsen blandt en stor del af Parlamentets medlemmer?
Madam President, if the arguments which have been advanced in favour of this cooperation agreement, stressing its value, which extends beyond the scope of
Fru formand, jeg insisterer fremdeles på, at det sker nu.
I still maintain, Madam President, that the decision must be taken now.
Jeg fastholder, at det haster med at afgive udtalelsen.
I still maintain that this is a matter of urgency.
Og hvorfor nu det?
What are my reasons?
Eller, som hr. Hindley sag de, hvad har vi at gøre i Pakistan?
Or, as Mr Hindley says, what are we going to do in Pakistan?
Det er givet, at vi ikke nærer noget ønske om at skabe militærstrategisk ligevægt.
We are cer tainly not going there with any thoughts of strategic military balance.
Jeg har svært ved at se, hvordan nogle med lemmer har kunnet få det ud af mine udtalelser.
I am at a loss to understand how any thing that I said could have given this impression to honourable Members.
Kommissionen henstiller derfor til Dem, ikke at ud­sætte denne afstemning.
The Commission accordingly recommends that you do not put off this vote.
Formanden. — Hr. von der Vring, jeg kan blot hen­vise til det, jeg allerede har meddelt; og der er end­videre muligt, at De ikke var til stede på det pågæl­dende tidspunkt.
President. — Mr von der Vring, I can only refer to what I have already said on the matter. Perhaps you were not here at the moment.
Dame Shelagh Roberts (ED), formand for udvalget o eksterne økonomiske forbindelser. — (EN) Fru for­mand, jeg tror De har besvaret mit spørgsmål.
Dame Shelagh Roberts (ED), chairman of the Committee on External Economic Relations. — Madam President, I think you have now replied to my question.
Men for at gøre sagen helt klar, kan vi da gå ud fra, at forhandlingen er afslutet?
However, just so that there should be no confusion, may I take it that the debate has closed?