natgillin/translations-raw huggingface dataset:
Formanden. — Det er ikke mig, der skal aflægge beretning om denne sag.
Mr Marshall (ED). — Mr President, further to Mr Tomlinson's point of order, may I respectfully suggest that you have missed the point.
Det drejer sig om en afgørelse, der blev truffet i budgetudvalget.
I think this House would like to hear the result of that investigation. gation.
Cryer (S). — (EN) Hr. formand, De oplæste en liste over betænkninger, for hvilke fristen for at stille ændringsforlsag var ændret til kl. 20 i aften.
President. — Mr Pannella, I do believe that we are in agreement.
Kan De sige, om Rothley-betænkningen var med i denne liste? ste?
The fact is that the agenda is drawn up by the House; it has done so just now.
A2-23/85) af Mertens for udvalget om miljø- og sundhedsanliggender og forbrugerbe skyttelse over forslag fra Kommissionen til Rådet (KOM(84) 445 endel. - dok.
I feel that the order we follow is a very logical one: the House decides on the draft agenda, either by adopting the enlarged Bureau's draft or by amending it.
2-686/84) om fastsættelse af størsteindhold af uønskede stoffer og produk ter i foderstoffer, direktiv 77/101/EØF om handel
In amending it, we are also free to amend the deadlines for tabling amendments which may have been envisaged at the drafting stage.
Formanden. — Hvad Rothley-betænkningen angår, er fristen udløbet.
President. — A report on the matter has been submit ted to the Bureau.
Det ville være rart, hvis vi gennemarbejdede betænkningen udelukkende med henblik på logikken, for vi har i direktivet besluttet noget andet end det, vi lige nu gjorde.
It may not be laid down in the Rules of Procedure but neither is it forbidden by them.
Jeg tror, at det, der her vedtages, er noget ulogisk.
It would be a good thing if the matter were clearly explained to the House.
Daly (ED). — (EN) Hr. formand, jeg vil gerne på min gruppes vegne i overensstemmelse med artikel 85 anmode om, at Mertens-betænkningen tilbagevises til udvalg, for at udviklingsudvalget og landbrugsudvalget kan få lejlighed til at drøfte deres udtalelser med miljøudvalget, som miljøudvalgets formand, fru Weber, lovede i sidste mødeperiode.
Mr Klepsch (PPE). — (DE) Mr President, I oppose this request because it was rejected last time.
Formanden. — Tak for Deres bemærkning, men for samlingen er suveræn; den stemmer, som den vil — den har oven i købet ret til at modsige sig selv.
I do not think it is permissible to make the same request, simply because the vote was postponed until today on quite different grounds.
Sherlock (ED). - (EN) Hr. formand, jeg havde det indtryk, at proceduren i henhold til artikel 85 ikke nødvendigvis krævede en taler for og en taler imod.
Mr Tomlinson (S). — Mr President, I do not want to go on with this matter, having raised it now, I think, at every partsession since the vote we had on the agricultural price-fixing.
Daly (ED). — (EN) Jeg vil stemme imod dette direktiv og Mertens-betænkningen af to grunde.
But it is on the record that at the last partsession when I raised this question, you clearly advised this House that you had written to four Members of this House.
Formanden. — Tak for Deres bemærkning, hr. Sherlock. Selv om det ikke er foreskrevet, er det heller ikke forbudt ifølge forretningsordenen.
I am now asking you, have you received a reply?
Det er kun godt, at forsamlingen oplyses.
What is the nature of the reply?
Faktisk har der ikke fundet nogen høringer sted, der på nogen måde var konstruktive, mellem de to parter, siden dette løfte blev givet.
If you have not yet received a reply, how do you propose to proceed further?
(Anmodningen af Daly blev ikke imødekommet)
(Parliament rejected Mrs Daly's request)
Formanden. — Vi går derefter til afstemning.
President. — We shall proceed therefore to the vote.
(Forslaget til beslutning vedtoges) (')
That is the position.'
Formanden. — Næste punkt på dagsordenen er be tænkning (dok.
Report (Doc.
A2-46/85) af Donnez for udvalget om retlige anliggender og borgernes rettigheder om an modningen om ophævelse af Marco Pannellas parlamentariske immunitet.
A 2-23/85) by Mr Mertens, on behalf of the Committee on the Environment, Public Health and Consumer Protection, on the proposal from the Com mission to the Council (Doc.
Mertens (PPE), ordfører. — (DE) Hr. formand, for at lette afstemningen for forsamlingen vil jeg gerne sige, at jeg går ind for alle ændringsforslag fra udvalget om miljø- og sundhedsanliggender og forbrugerbeskyttelse, men at jeg gerne om de andre ændringsforslag hver gang vil tilkendegive min indstilling.
Mrs Daly (ED). — Mr President, I would like, on behalf of our group, to request that the Mertens report be send back under Rule 85 to allow the Committees on Development and Agriculture to discuss their opi nions with the Committee on the Environment, as promised by Mrs Weber, chairman of the Committee on the Environment, at the last partsession.
Hvis jeg har forstået Dem ret, har De nu sat ændringsforslag fra Bloch von Blottnitz til afstemning. Dette forslag har ikke været behandlet i udvalget; jeg er imod.
President. — As Mrs Daly has made this request, I must give the floor to one speaker in favour and one against.
Donnez (L), ordfører. — (FR) Kære kolleger, endnu en gang forhandler vi om en anmodning om ophævelse af den parlamentariske immunitet, og denne gang drejer det sig om vor udmærkede kollega, Marco Pannella.
Mr Sherlock (ED). — Mr President, I was under the impression that the procedure under Rule 85 did not necessarily call for a speaker in favour and a speaker against.
Efter punkt 15 — Efter forkastelsen af ændringsforslag nr. 13
President. — Thank you for this comment. However, the Assembly is sovereign and can vote as it wishes.
(') Ordføreren udtalte sig: - FOR ændringsforslag nr. 1 til 8, 12, 15 og 18; - IMOD ændringsforslag nr. 9 til 11, 13, 14, 16, 19 og 20.
Mrs Daly (ED). — I shall vote against this directive and against the Mertens report for two reasons.
(') Se forhandlingerne den 10. maj 1985.
Speaking time: see Minutes. See Debates of 10 May 1985.
Europa-Parlamentets medlemmer fritagelse for en hver from for tilbageholdelse eller retsforfølgelse, idet immuniteten dog ikke kan påberåbes af et medlem, som gribes på fersk gerning, og heller ikke kan hindre Parlamentets ret til at ophæve et af dets medlemmers immunitet efter derom fremsat anmodning fra de kompetente myndigheders side, i det foreliggende til fælde fra den italienske justitsminister.
First, during the ordinary meeting of the ACP-EEC Council of Ministers held in Suva, Fiji, in May 1984, the Community gave an undertaking that the ACP States would be consulted in good time before any regulation was adopted by the Council. In fact, no consultations of any constructive kind have taken place between the two sides since that undertaking was given.
De forhold, der lastes hr. Pannella, har fundet sted på italiensk område, og følgelig nyder hr. Pannella parlamentarisk immunitet i henhold til artikel 10 i den protokol, der er bilag til traktaten.
All along, the Development Committee has maintained that what was really needed is full and effective implementation of the original directive, not the new directive that is proposed today, and for that reason I shall vote against the resolution tonight.
Loven er nu ændret, efter at der i Italien er afholdt en folkeafstemning, hvis udfald De sikkert har løst om i pressen.
Aborto — which had in fact been set up by the Italian Radical Party.
Det tror jeg er en god ting, så vi ikke vakler og især aldrig påvirkes af det pågældende medlems politiske tilhørsforhold eller nationalitet, da vi givetvis ville løbe ind i ubehageligheder.
It should also be pointed out that at the material time Mr Pannella, his party and indeed many other Italians were conducting a political campaign seeking major changes in the Italian legislation on abortion, which was illegal.
Det er klart, at formålet med den parlamentariske immunitet ikke er at tilstå et med lem af Parlamentet et privilegium; det er en garanti for Parlaments uafhængighed af andre myndigheder af enhver art.
Following a referendum, of which you no doubt at least saw details in the press, the legislation was changed.
Det er også væsentligt at understrege, at undersøgelsesdommeren erklærer, at de kvinder, der således fik abort, sædvanligvis betalte et beløb på 100 000 lire med undtagelse af dem, der var ude af stand til at betale på grund af helt utilstrækkelige ressourcer.
It should also be stressed that the examining magistrate points out that the women who obtained abortions in this way generally paid 100 000 lire, except for those with such limited resources that they clearly could not afford to pay.
Så danne trængende kvinder fik gratis abort, og det skal bemærkes, at det netop omtalte beløb på 100 000 lire gik til CISA, som jeg har fortalt Dem om.
Abortions were provided free to these women who could not afford to pay, while the amounts of 100 000 lire were paid to CISA, the organization to which I was referring earlier.
Hr. Pannella og hans politiske meningsfæller har aldrig været anklaget for at have modtaget det ringeste beløb af de 100 000 lire pr. patient, som jeg også lige har om talt.
Neither Mr Pannella nor his political friends were ever accused of having received a single centesimo of these payments of 100 000 lire per person.
Når jeg fremhæver dette med det samme, så er det fordi hr. Pannella i det foreliggende tilfælde har ønsket at få ophævet sin parlamentariske immunitet. tet.
A 246/85) by Mr Donnez, on behalf of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Citizens' Rights, on the request for the waiver of Mr Marco Pannella's parliamentary immunity.
Jeg skal tilføje, at det af mig netop definerede princip, at et medlems anmodning om ophævelse af sin par lamentariske immunitet ikke skulle have nogen retsvirkning, selvfølgelig ikke er absolut.
This is the evidence which was laid before the Italian Chamber of Deputies, of which Mr Pannella is a Member, when, on two occasions, requests for the waiver of his parliamentary immunity were referred to it, in much the same way as the one on which you have to decide today.
Vi bør først og fremmest tilgodese Parlamentets interesser, men også medlemmets interesser og dernæst prøve på at få de to synspunkter til at falde sammen.
On both occasions the Italian Chamber of Deputies decided, on 19 October 1977 and 23 October 1984, not to waive Mr Pannella's parlia mentary immunity, and this effectively means that our decision today is concerned very much more with principles than with practice, since even if we decided for our part to waive Mr Pannella's parliamentary immunity, it would make virtually no difference in practice since Mr Pannella would still be protected by his parliamentary immunity in Italy.
På grund heraf og under hensyntagen til at hr. Pannella er medlem af det italienske deputeretkammer, skulle sidstnævnte tage stilling til en anmodning om ophævelse af den parlamentariske immunitet i lighed med den, som vi behandler i dag.
Mr Donnez (L), rapporteur. — (FR) Ladies and gen tlemen, we have to deal today with another request for parliamentary immunity to be waived, the honourable Member concerned on this occasion being our excellent colleague Mr Pannella.
I det foreliggende tilfælde tror jeg imidlertid ikke, at vi kan efterkomme hr. Panncllas ønske, hvilket jeg beklager på hans vegne, men det skyldes ganske en kelt, at vi i henhold til de principper, vi selv har fast slået, og af hensyn til Parlamentets uafhængighed finder det rigtigt af fastholde principperne og at efterleve dem, ganske særligt i hr. Panncllas tilfælde.
Article 10 of the Protocol on the Privileges and Immunities of the European Com munities defines parliamentary immunity in very precise terms, prescribing that, on the territory of their respective States, Members of the European Parlia ment enjoy the same immunities as Members of their national Parliaments, while on the territories of other Member States they enjoy immunity from all legal proceedings, except if found in the act of committing an offence, on the understanding that the Parliament in question, which is this Parliament on this occasion, can always waive parliamentary immunity at the request of the competent authorities, in this case the Minister for Justice of the Italian Republic.
Efter at have fastslået dette skal jeg erindre Dem om de principper og bestemmelser, der for os er gældende på dette område, og hvortil vi allerede har taget stilling ved flere lejligheder.
To give some further information on the evidence itself, I would add that on 9 January 1975 a clinic was discovered in Florence where abortions were regularly performed on women referred to it by an organization known as CISA — Centro Italiano Sterilizzazione ed
Artikel 10 i protokollen om De europæiske Fællesskabers priviligier og immuniteter nævner udtrykkelig denne immunitet og bestemmer, at Europa-Parlamentets medlemmer på deres eget lands område nyder de samme immuniteter, som tilstås medlemmerne af deres lands lovgivende forsamling.
The evidence against Mr Pannella relates to acts com mitted on Italian territory, and under this Article 10 of the Protocol annexed to the Treaty, therefore, he enjoys parliamentary immunity.
Parlamentet er kommet til samme resultat og har endvidere altid tilføjet, at tidspunktet for de om stridte forhold i betragtning af, at den parlamentari-
I would add, again to refresh your memories, that in connection with two requests for the waiver of parlia-
Donnez ske immunitet skal beskytte vor institution, er ret uvæsentligt, hvilket er i strid med retspraksis i en række af de nationale parlamenter.
Donnez our minds how we are going to deal with the request that we have received, applying the body of case law that we have built up and will be adding to today.
Efter min mening er der god grund — eller for at bruge fransk juridisk sprogbrug: tungtvejende, præcise og sammenfaldende formodninger — der taler for, at hr. Pannellas aktivitet, hans politiske aktivitet, helt indgik i den »ulovlige handling«, der foreholdes ham af den offentlige anklager i Firenze.
mentary immunity on which I had the honour to report to you at the request of the Committee on Legal Affairs during the last Parliament, we worked out a member of general principles which have now become established, definitively in my view.
Derfor er det eneste spørgsmål, hvorpå retsudvalget beder Dem om at svare, hvorvidt hr. Pannella i det foreliggende tilfælde ved at handle, som han har gjort, handlede i henhold til sit personlige politiske kriterium, ja eller nej?
I consider that this was desirable, so as to ensure that we never allow ourselves to be diverted and never take account, in particular, of the nationality of one or other of our number, since otherwise we would assuredly be head ing for trouble.
Ud fra tungtvejende, præcise og samstemmende formodninger svarer jeg ja, fordi hr. Pannella og hans politiske meningsfæller på daværende tidspunkt i Italien — det må vi ikke glemme — førte en ihærdig kamp for at få ændret den italienske lovgivning, hvilket nu er sket.
We are agreed that the purpose of par liamentary immunity is not to establish a privilege for the benefit of any of us individually; it is a safeguard, a guarantee of independence given to this Parliament, a guarantee of independence from all other authorities, whatever they be.
Vi har ment, at vi af hensyn til en kohærent opfattelse af europæisk parlamentarisk immunitet bør frigøre os af de forskellige nationale parlamenters principper.
We have taken the view that, for there to be a coherent concept of European parliamentary immunity, we would have to distance ourselves from the principle applied by our various national parliaments.
Jeg nærer umådelig stor respekt for de nationale par lamenter, men hvert enkelt af disse reagerer ud fra sin egen opfattelse.
I have the greatest respect for our national parliaments, but they all have different approaches.
Det er umuligt for os at hælde til det ene eller andet af vore parlamenters retspraksis.
It is not possible for us to refer to the case law of one or other of our national parliaments.
Vi skal opbygge vor egen retspraksis, og vi har især besluttet, at når et medlem anklages for forhold, der omfattes af straffeloven, i forbindelse med hans politiske aktivitet, så skal der udledes et grundlæggende kriterium for behandlingen af enhver anmodning om ophævelse af den parlamentariske immunitet.
We have to develop our own case law, and we have decided, in particular, that when the acts of which a Member of the European Parliament is accused have a bearing on his political activity, it is necessary to apply the fundamental criterion in deciding what action is to be taken on a request for the waiver of parliamentary immunity.
Hvis hr. Pannellas aktivitet således er i overensstemmelse med et politisk kriterium, skal vore principper følges.
On the basis of that definition, a renunciation of immunity by a Member whose immunity Parliament has been asked to waive can have no legal effect.
Den parlamentariske immunitet skal ikke op hæves. Det er da også det resultat, som retsudvalget kom til med et meget stort flertal. Og det er det, som jeg vil bede Dem om at bekræfte i dag.
My reason for making this clear immediately is that, in this case, Mr Pannella has asked for his parliamentary immunity to be waived.
Det er ensbetydende med, at handlingerne, dersom de falder ind under det europæiske parlaments medlems politiske aktivitet, bør omfattes af den par lamentariske immunitet.
According to this criterion, where the acts of which a Member of the European Parliament is accused form part of this political activity, they must be covered by parliamentary immunity.
Pannella (NI). — (FR) Hr. formand, at tage ordet hertil efter Hr. Donnez, der har fastlagt vor retspraksis, og som er så god til at sige, hvad der er ret, for problemet er jo netop »juris dicere«, er selvfølgelig vanskeligt.
We must ask ourselves what is in the interest of our Parliament first and also what is in the interest of the Member concerned, and we must try as far as we are able to reconcile the two.
På dette grundlag skal vi så afgøre, om hr. Pannella ved at optræde, således som anført af den offentlige anklager i Firenze, har handlet som led i sin politiske aktivitet, eller i hvert fald om den aktivitet, der læg ges ham til last, indgik i hans politiske aktivitet.
It is on this basis that we must ask ourselves whether the actions with which Mr Pannella is charged by the Florence Public Prosecutor were part of his political activities, or at least whether the activities with which he is charged were connected with his political activity.
Det er det spørgsmål, vi skal besvare, og intet som helst andet.
This is the question that we have to answer, and no other considerations enter into it.
Men jeg må sige, hr, formand, at jeg ikke tror, at der har foreligget noget ønske om politisk forfølgelse af vor tidligere kollega, Emma Bonino, der blev an holdt, mod min partisekretær, Adele Faccio, eller mod mig selv; i det mindste tror jeg ikke, at det har været afgørende.
In the present case, however, I regret for Mr Pannella's sake that I do not think that his request can be accommodated, simply because, in view of the principles which we have evolved and given the independence of this Parliament, it is desirable to maintain these principles and to apply them, in particular, in Mr Pannella's case.
Jeg siger intet som helst andet, fordi jeg er på det rene med, at det, når vi kommer ind på spørgsmålet om svangerskabsafbrydelse eller fri abort, man kan kalde det, hvad man vil, afføder samvittighedsproblemer.
I point out that no other considerations enter into this question because for some of you, I am convinced, a problem of conscience arises where abortion or termination of pregnancy — call it what you will — is under discussion.
I det foreliggende tilfælde er det imidlertid ikke et spørgsmål om, hvorvidt det drejer sig om svangerskabsafbrydelser eller aborter.
We for our part consider that parliamentary immunity attaches to the person of a Member by virtue of his or her office, and that it is of little account whether the alleged offences occurred before or after he or she was elected.
Det er et juridisk problem, det drejer sig om. Skal de forhold, der foreholdes hr. Pannella, henregnes til hans politiske aktivitet inden for det radikale parti, eller skal de ikke?
It is the date of the charges which matters.
Det er det eneste spørgsmål, hvortil der skal tages stilling.
Having established this, we must make up
Der er faktisk én her i forsamlingen, som jeg håber vil tage ordet, hr. formand, og det er den dommer, der underskrev fængslingskendelsen, og som nu er vor kollega. Han gjorde i sin tid efter min mening sin pligt.
It is a legal problem. The question is whether or not the actions of which Mr Pannella is accused can be regarded as being connected with the political activity in which he was engaged in the Radical Party.
Abort har været forbudt i Italien i hundrede år og gennemførtes derfor i det skjulte af fosterfordriversker, såkaldte englemagere.
It is the Florence Public Prosecutor who has laid accusations against Mr Pannella, not I. I have no call to take a stand on a charge of this kind, or on any other for that matter.
Velstående kvinder havde ingen vanskeligheder i kraft af deres penge, men for fattige kvinder var det døden. Lige så længe,
Indeed, the only question that the Committee on Legal Affairs is asking you to answer — just as it did — is this: in the case
Pannella det drejede sig om mange millioner mennesker, der var indblandet, forekom der ingen retssager.
Donnez quite a clever move, I think. There was a fumus persecutionis as far as the others were concerned.
På det tidspunkt, hvor Partito radicale igennem syv måneder trådte frem ved at tage ansvaret, fordi man var af den opfattelse, at man skulle sikre det, som vi betragter som en personlig rettighed mere end en kvindelig rettighed, en hellig ret til at give liv i kærlighed og ansvarsbevidsthed i stedet for at forplante sig som dyr.
under consideration, in acting as he did, was Mr Pannella acting according to a political criterion which he had adopted, or was he not?
Man ønsker altså ikke at gennemføre denne proces i min nærværelse — sagen går tilbage til 1975.
My presence at this trial — over events which took place in 1975 — is not required, it seems.
Jeg havde afsløret min identitet, idet det var mig, der havde underskrevet kontrakten på de lokaler, hvori Kar man-metoden gratis blev praktiseret for de kvinder, der ingen penge havde, hvilket De også nævnte.
And yet I made no secret of my involvement; I had signed the contracts for the premises where the operations were performed according to the Karman method, free of charge for those who could not afford to pay, as you have pointed out.
Det var det jeg mente, da jeg sagde, at et medlems afkald på den parlamentariske immunitet ikke havde nogen retsvirkning. Det betyder dog ikke, at vi ex abrupto skal vælge en definition som denne.
Consequently, if Mr Pannella's activity corresponds to a political criterion, our principles must be applied.
Jeg forstår udmærket hr. Pannellas personlige reaktion.
It would be inappropriate to waive parliamentary immunity.
Jeg forstår den så meget desto bedre, som han føler sig solidarisk med alle sine meningsfæller; det er en ædel holdning, som jeg kun kan glæde mig over. Men jeg må for mit vedkommende fastholde vore retlige principper.
This is what the Committee on Legal Affairs decided, for its part, by a very large majority.