natgillin/translations-raw huggingface dataset:
Det er det areal, der, forså- vidt vi overhovedet véd noget om emnet, giver et maximum af æg og et minimum af dødelighed og kanibalisme blandt dyrene. Om kanibalismen og
Given the current population of laying hens in the Community, this would mean that an additional 5 000 hectares of land would have to be made available for new premises at an estimated total cost of some 850 million EUA.
For det andet har den økonomiske undersøgelse vist, at dette også er det økonomisk bedste.
The economic argument stipulates a minimum cage area of 450 sq. cm.
For det tredje vil en forhøjelse af normerne forpligte producenterne til ekstra investeringer, som ved en af nogle foreslået norm på 600 cm2kan
Whether the cannibalism and the mortality are due to the size of the cage or to the variety of the animal in it is something we do not know very accurately either.
Maher. — (EN) Blot nogle få korte bemærkninger.
President. — I call the Liberal and Democratic Group.
dødeligheden skyldes burets størrelse eller arten af dyr i det er noget, som vi heller ikke véd ret meget præcist om.
different parts which is arguing that the whole system has got to be done away with immediately.
Hvad der nu står tilbage for os at gøre er at finde noget, som er poli tisk acceptabelt, uder· at narre os selv til tro, at der findes kendte midler til at bedømme tilfredsheden hos dyrene selv.
What we have actually got to do is to find something which is politically acceptable, without kidding ourselves that there is any known means of judging the happiness of the animals themselves.
Tilfredshedskvotienten hos en fugl er noget, som jeg endnu ikke har været i stand til at afgøre i det mindste ikke i den form, hvorunder vi diskuterer det for øjeblikket.
The happiness quotient of a bird is something which I have not yet been able to discover, not at least in the form in which we are discussing it at the moment.
Jeg har haft heste, jeg har haft kvæg.
Mr Maher. — Just a few brief comments.
Jeg har haft får og svin og også andre dyr, og jeg opdagede hos dem allesammen, at hvis man lader dem lide, hvis de har det hårdt, så vil man ikke få nogen produktion fra dem.
There was a time when I used to keep hens on my farm, free-range hens, but I discovered as time went on that people were not prepared to pay a decent price for the eggs I was selling in competition with those that were produced in more modern systems in battery cages.
Det skal man ikke glemme.
So I just went out of production.
Hr. Tolman foreslår at vi faktisk bør have 450 cm2pr. fugl, men i bure på mindst 1 600 cm2. Dette er det
I have had horses, I have cattle. I have sheep, and pigs, and some other animals as well, and I found with all of them that if you make them suffer, if they are under hardship, you will not get production from them.
Når vi nu beskæftiger os med spørgsmålet om burhøns, må vi etablere et forhold mellem den høje produktion, som opnås, hvad enten fuglen lider eller ej.
When we are looking at the question of battery hens we have to establish a relationship between the high production that is got whether or not the bird is suffering.
Det kan ikke nægtes.
That cannot be denied.
Nu er jeg ikke ekspert på dette område, og jeg kan ikke med sikkerhed sige, om en høne er ulykkelig i et bur af en vis størrelse eller ikke.
Now I am not an expert on this and I cannot definitely say whether a hen is unhappy in a certain size of cage or not.
Men jeg foreslår, at man tager det faktum i betragtning, at hvis den producerer godt, hvis den producerer et stort antal æg, så kan den ikke være helt ulykkelig.
But I would suggest that some consideration be given to the fact that if she is producing well, if she is producing a large number of eggs, she cannot be very unhappy.
Hvis den var det, ville den ikke producere noget.
If she was, she just would not produce.
Det er min erfaring med dyr livet igennem.
That is my experience with animals all my life.
Det andet, jeg gerne vil understrege, er følgende (Afbrydelse fra hr. Gautier) vigtigste.
Mr Tolman is proposing that we should, in fact, have 450 square centimetres per bird, but in a minimum cage size of 1 600 square centimetres. Now this is the important part.
Overalt i Fællesskabet er der normalt 3 fugle i et bur.
Throughout the Community, for the most part, there are three birds in a cage.
Mener han i praksis, at dette skal betyde, at hver fugl har 530 cm2plads?
Does he intend that, in practice, that is going to mean that each bird has a space of about 530 odd square centimetres?
Hvis han gør det, er hans forslag ikke til at skelne fra Kommissionens forslag, og så har det ikke noget formål at prøve at ændre Kommissionens forslag.
If he does, then his proposal is indistinguishable from the Commission's proposal and there is no point in trying to change the Commission's proposal.
Men hvis det, hr. Tolman nu foreslår er, at det er usandsynligt, at der vil være bure af minimumsstørrelsen, og at vi i stedet for vil have at gøre med bure, som, skal vi sige, inde holder 6 fugle, så er det faktisk muligt at have et minimumsareal på ca. 450 cm2.
If what Mr Tolman is actually suggesting is that it is unlikely that there will be cages of the minimum size and that we will be dealing instead with cages holding, let us say, six birds, then it is, in fact, possible to have a minimum area of around 450 sq. cm.
Vi vil gerne have at vide af Kommissionen, om den vil være parat til at støtte dette forslag i de yderligere forslag, den selv forelægger for Rådet.
We need to know from the Commission whether they would be prepared to endorse that proposal in the further proposals they make to the Council themselves.
Så rent faktisk er hovedspørgsmålet minimumsburstørrelsen og ikke det areal, hver fugl har til rådighed.
So, in fact, the crucial matter is actually the minimum cage size, not the space each bird has.
Det er, for alle praktiske formåls skyld, rundt regnet 600 cm2.
That, for the sake of the record, is roughly 600 square centimetres.
Jeg er landmand, hr. Gautier, og jeg har haft en lang erfaring med dyr, og jeg fortæller blot om mine erfaringer. Jeg siger ikke, at jeg er en autoritet, og jeg siger ikke, at jeg er ufejlbarlig på dette område — det er jeg langt fra — jeg beretter blot om mine erfaringer, og det er mine erfaringer.
I am a farmer, Mr Gautier, and I have had long experience with animals and I am just relating my experience.
Jeg har nu fremsat ændringsforslag, som forsøger at bygge bro mellem de to holdninger, hr. formand.
Now I have put down amendments which try to bridge the gulf between the two positions, Mr President.
Jeg foreslår, at der fra ikrafttrædelsesdatoen af hvilken forordning der end måtte komme fra Rådet, bliver installeret nye bure med en minimumsstørrelse på og med plads til 3 fugle — dvs. hver fugl 2 — men at producenterne i en overgangs
I am proposing that, as of the date of entry into force of whatever regulation emerges from the Council, new cages should be installed of a minimum size of 1 800 square centimetres and capable of holding 3 birds — that is, each bird would have 600 square centimetres — but that for the transitional period of ten years, in other words, enough time to amortize and depreciate all the hardware, producers should be allowed to keep 4 birds in that same cage.
Hver vil så få 450 cm2, som foreslået af hr. Toman.
Each would then have the 450 sq. cm. proposed by Mr Tolman.
Ved udgangen af denne 10 års-periode kunne vi så ændre forholdene, efter at man havde nedskrevet den nødvendige investering over en lang periode.
At the end of that ten-year period we could effect a transition, having written off the necessary investment over a long peroid.
Det andet, vi skal lægge mærke til, er hønens størrelse, og det er grunden til, at spørgsmålet om standardisering er en lille smule vanskeligt.
The other thing we have to take notice of is the hen size and this is why the question of standardization is a little bit difficult.
Der er nogle meget små høns og der er nogle meget store høns, og nogle vil helt tydeligt have brug for mere plads end andre.
There are some very small hens and there are some very large hens and some obviously would need more space than others.
Måske skulle man finpudse hele reguleringen — hvis vi skal have en regulering — for at tage hensyn til hønsenes forskellige størrelse. Det er oplagt, at en meget lille høne kunne være ganske godt tilpas i 300 cm2, medens en meget stor høne, som en Rhode Island eller lignende, kunne være ulykkelig i et rum af den størrelse.
Perhaps there ought to be some refinement of this whole regulation — if we are to have a regulation — to take account of the different size of hen.
Til sidst, hr. formand, vil jeg meget kraftigt insistere på, at vi gør vores bedste for at sikre, at fuglene er tilfredse.
Finally, Mr President, I would insist very strongly that we should do the best we can to ensure that the birds are happy.
Jeg forstår fuld ud bekymringen hos folk, som udtrykker dette synspunkt.
I understand fully the concerns of people who express this point of view.
Jeg synes vi skal være taknemmelige mod folk, som er bekymrede for dyrs og fugles trivsel.
I think we should be grateful to people who are concerned about the welfare of birds and animals.
Jeg synes ikke, vi skal reagere negativt overfor dem.
I do not think we should react negatively to them.
Men vi bliver nødt til at finde en balance mellem økonomisk produktion, det være sig kød eller æg, og det omfang, hvori folk er parate til at betale den ekstra pris, ved et fordyret system.
We are fed up to the teeth of this heterogeneous system of inspection which is observed in some parts and not in others, with no agreement on what they are supposed to be observing in any case.
Min erfaring i dette Parlament, generelt talt, er, at forbrugerinteressen er at få prisen så lav som muligt, og den forsøger konstant at reducere de ressourcer, som tilflyder landbruget. Nu må de gøre op med sig selv
If the whole purpose of this is to have a common stand ard and common competition, let us make sure that at least we have common and effective surveillance of that competition.
én gang for alle og aflægge dr. Jekyll/mr.
It is high time the Commission gave some thought — bearing in mind the question of competition in the agricultural sector — to ways of achieving alternative forms of livestock farming.
Hyde­holdningen: På den ene side siger de, at vi bliver nødt til at have et fordyret produktionssystem, fordi vi ønsker visse betingelser for fugle og dyr, og på den anden side siger de, at den pris vi skal betale er for høj.
By concentrating exclusively on battery farming, we are clearly ignoring other substantial areas of livestock farming which are at least as unsuited to the nature of the animals and at least as cruel as battery farming.
Lad os for én gangs skyld få gjort op med dette og få afskaffet Jekyll og Hyde.
I expect the Commission to take more of an initiative on this issue and not always to remain inactive until vigorous public protests are raised.
Antallet af parlamentsmedlemmer her i Parlamentet kan vel ikke være nogen målestok for, om dette er et interessant eller et uinteressant emne.
Mr Mertens. — (DE) Mr President, ladies and gentlemen, I cannot believe that the number of Members present in this House accurately reflects the level of interest in this subject.
Jeg tror, at enhver, som blandt befolkningen, i fjernsynet og i de øvrige medier, har fulgt med i beretningerne, vil give mig ret i, at dette er et meget interessant emne for mange mennesker.
I think that anyone who has followed the reports on television and in the other media will agree with me that, for a large number of people, this is a matter of very great importance.
Nu ' er det heldigvis efter min mening lykkedes for de tidligere talere og mine kolleger at fremlægge de forskellige opfattelser, således at jeg kan fatte mig i korthed.
Fortunately, I think the previous speakers have managed to convey the divergence of views on this subject, so my contribution can be a brief one.
Jeg kan overfor ordføreren for Landbrugsudvalget kun bekræfte, at hans forslag med hensyn til areal pr. høne er en succes i forhold til det, som delvis prakti­seres nu og i udstrakt grad blev praktiseret tidligere.
I can assure the rapporteur for the Committee on Agriculture that his proposal on the minimum cage area per hen is an improvement on what is standard practice in some places and certainly an improvement on past practice.
Tilbage står blot spørgsmålet, om det er nok.
The question is merely whether his proposal goes far enough.
De store økonomiske problemer, som er forbundet med den påtænkte og måske videregående regulering, forklarer også, hvorfor Kommissionen har forelagt os et forslag — og landbrugsudvalget har jo fulgt det op —, som man, hvad angår de foreslåede mål i overgangspe­rioden, kun kan kalde halvhjertet.
Because of the substantial economic problems which are linked to the planned, and possibly even more detailed, rules and regulations, the Commission has presented us with a proposal — which the Committee on Agriculture has gone along with — which, as far as the proposed cage sizes over a transitional period are concerned, can really be called no more than half-hearted.
Hvis man går ind i den diskussionen, så må man undgå at rette bebrej­delser mod de pågældende landmænd, for de har i de sidste århundreder på grundlag af intensiv rådgivning fra driftsøkonomisk hold, og især fra landbrugsforsk­ningen, udviklet en form for dyrehold i tillid til, at det var tilladeligt.
Those of us who wish to enter into this discussion must avoid any criticism of the farmers themselves who, over the last few decades and on the urging of the business experts and in particular of the agricultural researchers, have developed a form of livestock farming in the genuine belief that it was perfectly permissible.
Mange havde måske deres tvivl, men i det støre og hele gik de ud fra, at man kunne gøre således.
Many farmers may have had doubts about what they were doing, but they assumed, generally speaking, that it was all right.
Der er dybest set også tale om videnska­bens svigten, især adfærdsforskningens, som i årevis har ignoreret de den foreliggende resultater og ikke givet dem videre, og i særdeleshed ikke har gjort dem anvendelige til denne form for dyrehold.
What the whole thing really boils down to is that the scientific community — and in particular behavioural science — has failed us in that the scientists have for years ignored and failed to pass on the results at their fingertips, and have in effect failed to apply those results to this form of livestock farming in particular.
Som repræsentant for mine kolleger i udvalget for miljøspørgsmål, folkesundhed og forbrugerbeskyttelse må jeg her gøre det klart, at det foreliggende forslag efter deres mening ikke er tilstrækkeligt.
I must make it clear on behalf of my colleagues from the Committee on the Environment, Public Health and Consumer Protection that the present proposal is, in our view, inadequate.
Vi tror, at en større hønsevenlighed er på sin plads, og håber, at dette Parlament vil tilslutte sig den.
We take the view that what is needed is greater sympathy with the lot of laying hens, and we hope that this House will commit itself to that sentiment.
På den anden side vil jeg ikke bestride, at det også er faldet vort udvalg vanskeligt at føre diskussionen til et resultat, for vi var i den penible situation, at vi heller ikke vidste, hvordan en hønes eller liggehønes psyke er. Hønen taler jo ikke et sprog, vi kan forstå.
On the other hand, I cannot deny that our Committee found it difficult to reach a conclusion because we were in the tricky situation of knowing nothing about the psychological make-up of chickens or laying hens.
I hvilket omfang er det da sandt, at hønen lever under stress i disse bure?
How far is it true that hens experience stress in their battery cages?
I hvilket omfang er det sandt, at dette dyr er frygteligt frustreret i den funktion, som mennesket forventer af det?
How far is it true that the hens find the activity human beings expect them to perform appallingly frustrating?
I hvilket omfang har vi her at gøre med adfærdsforstyrrelser, eller er det, som man ser på billeder og i beretninger, kun noget ydre, dvs. at fjerdragten ændres gennem dette ophold?
To what extent is what we are confronted with here a case of behavioural disturbance or is what we see in pictures and read about in reports only an external phenomenon whereby, for instance, the birds' plumage undergoes changes as a result of their being cooped up?
Alt dette er endnu temmelig uafklaret.
There is precious little clarity on all these points.
Lad mig imidlertid over for dem, som gennem forskning vil styre mod en optimal løsning, udtrykke nogle betænkeligheder.
However, having said that, allow me to express certain doubts as to the aims of those people who put their trust in research to achieve an
Hr. formand, mine damer og herrer, vi var ved vor afgørelse også bundet af, at det ikke kan være meningen, at vi skal ødelægge eksistensen for de mennesker, som er henvist til at sælge æg og holde høns. Det kunne heller ikke være meningen, at vi skulle lave et overdrevet forslag, hvis virkeliggørelse så havde slået igennem på prisen pr. høne og dermed belastet forbrugeren alt for meget.
The amendments tabled by my colleagues go some what further, but, if I may say so, are probably still inadequate because they fail to take sufficient account of this new form of livestock farming.
Jeg vil så at sige i en fodnote henvise til, at der natur ligvis' altid er et middel mod sådanne æg: så snart forbrugeren nægter at købe sådanne æg, er emnet burhøns i udstrakt grad elimineret .. .
The Commission's proposed date of 1995 for the end of that transitional period is a maximum limit which we should certainly like to see brought forward by a few years.
Narjes, medlem af Kommissionen. — (DE) Hr. formand, jeg vil først takke ordføreren for hans udførlige betænkning.
Mr President, ladies and gentlemen, we were also somewhat limited in our decisionmaking process by the fact that we certainly have no wish to destroy the livelihoods of people who make their living by selling eggs and keeping hens.
Kommissionens tjenestegrene har igangsat omfattende undersøgelser omkring det konfliktstof, som her er blevet tydeliggjort i debatten.
Nor did we have any reason to put forward an excessive proposal which, if imple mented, would have added too much to the price per hen the consumer would have to pay.
Der er en sammenfatning af resultaterne i den betænkning, som bliver forelagt sammen med vore forslag.
We have put forward our proposals, and we hope that, when it comes to the vote tomorrow, this House will reach a wise decision.
Gautier. — (DE) De refererer til Kommissionens videnskabelige undersøgelser.
At the same time, though, I fully sympathize with the desire to adopt definitive measures at an earlier point in time so as to protect the animals and prevent any distortion in competition.
Men de siger dog klart, at 450 cm2økonomisk set er det optimale og også svarer til det, som under synsvinklen dyrebeskyttelse for øjeblikket virker fornuftigt.
This could be done, for instance, by guaranteeing a minimum occupation density for the existing cages up to the time appointed for the introduction of new cages.
Men hvorfor foreslår Kommissionen så 500 cm2? Er dette en politisk afgørelse? relse?
The Commission will certainly continue its perusal of alternative accommodation systems and has already earmarked the necessary resources in its research budget for the coming years.
Endvidere har Parlamentet sikkert fået 2 interne papirer vedrørende de videnskabelige aspekter ved at holde liggehøns i bure og de dermed forbundne videnskabelige resultater sammen med udførlige litteraturhenvisninger. Derudover er resultaterne fra det af vor afdeling »landbrugsforskning« afholdte symposium blevet offentliggjort i et temmelig omfangsrigt bind.
Mr President, ladies and gentlemen, I cannot be sure that this House will reach an optimum decision or one which will remain valid forever more, but at least this debate and the decision reached by this House will, in my opinion have one advantage, and that is that at least we shall, from the moment the directive comes into force, and given the right kind of checks, have the same standards and conditions throughout the European Community, and I feel that that alone should give us a sense of satisfaction and will show this debate to have been worthwhile.
For det andet: hvem er egentlig efter Deres mening forbrugeren?
To answer a question raised by an earlier speaker, we have already included problems relating to pigs and calves in this programme.
Er De ikke også af den opfattelse, at den største del af æggene går til større firmaer, som fremstiller nudler og lignende, og ikke til enkeltforbrugerne, som hver morgen vil have et æg til morgen maden?
In my opinion, it would be inappropriate to reach decisions at this stage which would prejudice the conduct and the outcome of this research.
At det yderligere fortsat er fuldstændig uinteressant på engros-niveau, om f.eks. butiksprisen er 25 eller 27 pfennig, når f.eks. firma Birkel på grund af 0,1 pfennig pr. stk. ved 100 000 æg træffer helt andre afgørelser?
We shall also be investigating the effects of the various systems on the health status and the quality of the eggs offered for sale to the consumer.
Kan De venligst give tal for, hvor mange procent af æggene der faktisk går til den endelige forbruger som morgenmadsæg og hvor mange til den industrielle sektor.
At the same time, we must give careful consideration to the economic repercussions and the practicability of any such step in this direction before we put forward proposals.
Kommissionen er overbevist om, at vi har efterprøvet alt tilgængeligt videnskabeligt materiale som basis for forberedelsen af vort forslag.
Mr Narjes, Member of the Commission. — (DE) Mr President, I should like to begin by thanking the rapporteur for his comprehensive report.
Men der er dog vidtgående enighed om, at der må fastlægges minimumsbetingelser til beskyttelse af liggehøns.
Commission officials have done thorough research into the issues which this debate has shown to be source of conflict.
Efter indgående undersøgelser kan minimumsarealet på 450 cm2pr. høne efter vor mening ikke retfærdiggøres.
The report contains a summary of the results together with out proposals.
Narjes, medlem af Kommissionen. — (DE) Nej, så har De ikke hørt ordentligt efter!
Mr Gautier. — (DE) You referred to the Commission's scientific research.
Selv denne foranstaltning er endnu genstand for videnskabelige debatter og meningsforskelle. Men vi er af den mening, at vi hverken kan overveje ringere krav eller indskrænke os til generelle konstateringer inden for fællesskabsretten.
I assume too that Parliament has received two internal documents on the scientific aspects of keeping laying hens in cages, together with the scientific results and a comprehensive bibliography.
Vi må også fastlægge en passende frist til indførelse af nye bure for at forhindre en unødvendig markedsforstyrrelse.
We have also published the results of the symposium organized by our agricultural research division in the form of a very comprehensive volume.
Kom missionsforslaget til 1995 er en maximalfrist, som vi bestemt gerne så forkortet med nogle år.
Scientific evaluation has — and that is one of the findings — proved to be very difficult as the scientists themselves do not always agree.
Gautier. — (DE) Jeg har læst Deres undersøgelse — måske i modsætning til Dem!
is the optimum size and accords with what appears at present to be reasonable from the point of view of animal protection.
Narjes, medlem af Kommissionen. — (DE) De sagde netop, at jeg havde betegnet 500 cm2som det opti male. Det har jeg ikke gjort!
So why is the Commission proposing a cage area of 500 cm2?
De refererer til betænkningen. Den har jeg imidlertid ikke talt om.
Is this a political decision?
Jeg gentager for at undgå indgående undersøgelser kan efter på
The Commission is convinced that we have examined all the available scientific material in formulating our proposal.