MuppetZine : An Interview with Bill Barretta Six years ago , Bill Barretta was the guy inside the Earl Sinclair suit on " Dinosaurs " . Now he ' s a popular core Muppeteer , playing many of the major characters on " Muppets Tonight " . In this interview , Bill talks to Danny Horn about Clueless Morgan ' s motivations , Pepe ' s accent , and Johnny ' s " connections " . . . " Is this your first interview as yourself as a human being ? I ' ve seen some of the stuff you ' ve done as characters . . . " No , actually , I was interviewed one time with Mak Wilson , when we were doing Dinosaurs . I can ' t remember who it was , I don ' t know if it was Entertainment Tonight or something . They interviewed the two of us . Basically we talked for about twenty - five minutes , and - Mak and I kind of play around with each other ' s minds a little bit , and we have a really dry sense of humor when we get together , so we were just kind of , y ' know , throwing them back and forth off each other , and being ridiculous , pretty much . So I imagine they didn ' t get much out of it , because , basically , what they left on the actual aired interview was something like Mak saying , " And so , we , y ' know , we really enjoy working on it . " And then I just went . . . ( chuckle ) . . . and that was about the size of the interview that they kept . No , I haven ' t really been interviewed that much , as myself . I . . . I ' m not real comfortable with it , actually . " Oh , really ? " But , you know . That ' s okay . " Well , maybe you ' ll be more comfortable by the end of this . Or less . I guess we ' ll find out . " I ' ll let you know , yeah . " Okay . All right . We ' ll keep a running gauge throughout the interview . " Okay . Just check me , and I ' ll let you know how I ' m doing . " I ' ll ask for a spot check . All right , good . That ' s a good way to start . I was wondering if you ' d done acting , and how you got started in puppeteering and in performing . " Well , I can say the reason that I got into a lot of the things I ' m doing now is because of my brother , who ' s four years older than me . My brother Gene created new things to do , every weekend it was something new . And he decided that he wanted to know how to make puppets - we were watching Sesame Street in the early 70 ' s , and he decided that he wanted to make a Muppet . So I was going to make a Muppet because he wanted to , you know ? Gene wrote to Jim Henson , and Jim sent us a letter back with instructions on how to make a Muppet . " Wow . " Yeah , it was wild . " How old were you then ? " I was eight ; my brother was twelve . I think my mother must have helped us put the letter together . My brother was always into art . He was always cartooning ever since he was a kid , and I always performed as a kid . I would mime to Jungle Book , or something stupid like that . So we were always interested in art in some way . I think it was either Jim - I know he signed the letter - but I think it may have been Jane Henson who actually sent it to us . And it had pictures of the puppets , and instructions on how to make them , so we went to the store and started making them . Then we used to do puppet shows for kids , and neighborhood stuff . " Do you remember what your characters were ? " Oh , God . They were just abstract , mostly . There were two that were cowboys . And my cousin Gary also got involved - he was a year older than my brother . We would just make weird stuff , just buy fur and put eyes on it . They were so hard to use , too , because they were just made out of the stiffest materials , you know , cardboard mouths and stuff like that . Just crazy stuff . I don ' t know how long we did that off and on for , but eventually my brother wanted to make home movies , and we started to do that . When I was about thirteen , I was more interested in acting and doing plays and things like that , and went away from puppeteering , pretty much altogether . I really had no idea I would ever pick up a puppet again . I just went more towards acting . I quit high school , and worked , and moved to Philadelphia . . . " And then you went to acting school ? " I went to acting school for three years in Philadelphia , and then I went to the Neighborhood Playhouse in New York for two years , and studied there . Then I got tired of being in the shadows of New York and moved out to California . I got tired of it always being cementy - and I ' d lived on the East Coast all my life , so I think I just wanted to move and go somewhere different . You know , someplace where they have earthquakes , and fires , and riots . Things like that . It ' s more exciting . And also , you get tired of being mugged in New York , and out here you ' re more likely to get in an earthquake or something like that . I needed a change of disasters . " And that would explain Muppets Tonight . " Right , exactly . So I moved here , in ' 90 , and basically I was just looking for more acting work . Actually , I skipped something . In 1981 , maybe , ' 81 or ' 82 , I met Brian , and we worked at Sesame Place - you know , the theme park ? We both worked there in the summer . " Brian worked at Sesame Place ? " Uh huh . " I didn ' t know that . " I ' m sure you didn ' t . " That ' s not in the official bio . " I ' m sure it ' s not . But he , actually , I think he enjoys the idea of it , that we worked there . Cause we used to just sweep up cigarette butts and clean toilets . . . " Wow . So you weren ' t even doing the characters . . . " Oh , no , no . We were just working , making money . So that ' s where we actually met . Then he went to college , I think , and I moved to the city . We separated , but we always kept in touch over the years . We talked to each other . He ' d gone to London , so we ' d just keep in touch . So about , I guess , almost ten years later , I moved out here . Then he came out here because they were getting ready to do this new show , Dinosaurs . I was looking for work . I just wanted anything . I was auditioning , and I was working as a carpenter , and waitering . I was living in Long Beach , and driving back and forth to go on auditions and things . So Brian had come to visit , and I said , you know , you ' re doing this show , if there ' s anything , I don ' t care what it is - you want me to pull cables or something , I just want to be around the business , working . Eventually he said there was this character for Dinosaurs that he wanted to know whether I was interested in auditioning for - not that I was going to get it , but , you know , it was at least an opportunity , to see what I can do . Cause there ' s a lot of people that had done Ninja Turtles , so there were a lot of people that were used to working in these animatronic costumes . So , I thought , yeah , I ' ll do it . So I did , I shaved my head , and I went into my method thing , that I learned in my acting school . . . " You shaved your head so you ' d be more like a dinosaur ? That ' s really intense . " Well , it ' s bizarre , but once I shaved my head , the shape of my head - I didn ' t feel as much like a person . I felt more like a dinosaur . It ' s weird , but that ' s what I did . Then I went on the auditions , and eventually , they liked what I did . Michael Jacobs and Brian decided that they wanted me to play Earl . So I started doing that , and I did it for three years . Every now and then , off and on , I would put my hand into a puppet . It was kind of like , they were letting me play a little bit . " Did you do voices then ? " Yeah , I actually used to go in and loop for other characters - some of the Unisaurs , the guys that looked the same , but they were always different characters . I would do some of those . And then Dinosaurs ended , and now I get stuck . Then it starts to get blurry . " Maybe I know some of that stuff . But let me ask you a question first . At that point you were working with the Muppets , and you ' d grown up watching Sesame Street . Did you hold that in a high regard , since you ' d been imitating that when you were a kid , and now here you were actually working with them , or was it just a new acting job ? " No , I think - because Brian and I were friends first , it didn ' t really hit me in that sense . Except for the fact that there he was running this company now that his father passed away . And that was really intense and amazing . The way he handled it was incredible . And then - I think it really kind of hit me when I met Frank Oz . Then I thought , I ' ve actually had a dream come true . They say that there ' s six degrees of separation , where you ' re connected to someone in the world by at the most six degrees , and I never really thought about that . And then I just thought , God , there I am as a kid , thinking how great it would be to be in the same room with Bert and Ernie , and then you meet this person . I think as I started to puppeteer more , then I started to realize I actually learned from them . Even through acting , through characters . Frank has a strong sense of reality based in his characters , which is what makes them amazing , and so did Jim . I don ' t know what it is . But I felt really connected to him , when I met him , and I thought - God , that ' s amazing . This is what I guess I ' m supposed to be doing now , you know ? Yeah , it was a real shock . It took me a while to get comfortable and to feel like I should be doing that . " Well , it ' s actually - as far as I know about the way that the Muppets work , that ' s very fast . To be going from 1991 , cast as Earl , to just six years later , you ' re doing major characters , and you ' re one of the core puppeteers . " That ' s what they ' re telling me . . . " Cause I know Steve Whitmire worked for a bunch of years , just doing minor characters , before he ever got anything more than a dog . . . " And look how amazing he is . And that ' s the thing - obviously , everyone ' s different , but I ' m constantly learning . If I ever thought that I wasn ' t going to learn from these guys . . . there ' s always something to learn from them , every one of them . They all have very specific styles . I try to take a little bit of that from each of them , and try and use that , however I can . Maybe that ' s part of it ; maybe I ' m just a good mimic , in a way . I just try to learn so much from all of them , from Kevin and Frank and Jim and Jerry and Dave and Steve and Brian . . . I wonder if that ' s why I progressed , they say , a little quickly . " Well , something that I think is really neat about you and your characters is actually that you sound different . You ' re saying that one of the things you ' re good at is being a mimic , but I ' ve noticed I can always tell your characters , even before I know that you ' re playing them . Because the other Muppets , for the most part , sound kind of cartoony . They sound kind of puppety . And your characters have kind of a more realistic , and often a New York , tough kind of accent . " I think part of that is from Frank , watching Frank , and part of it is maybe my acting training , and just what I think is funny . The funniest things to me are the things that come out of the most bland situation . I guess an example that I ' m just thinking of off the top of my head right now would be in Goodfellas - there ' s a scene where they ' re digging up this guy that they buried . And you would think , this is really a horrible scene , and generally people would play it as people who are sick , they don ' t feel well cause they ' re doing it . But Joe Pesci and Robert DeNiro are digging this hole , and one of them says , " Oh , look , I found an arm . " And the other one goes , " Oh , I found a leg . " And then another one says , " Oh , look , I got a wing . " You know , it ' s like - just the absurdity in the reality of it . Something you wouldn ' t expect . But it ' s coming from a real place . I hope that explains it . " Not at all . That was interesting , but no . " Really ? I don ' t know . I guess I just - the simplicity of being . . . I don ' t know how to explain it . Maybe it ' s kind of like watching Rowlf play the piano . That was something that always amazed me , that I thought was great about the Muppets , was that you could see them doing things that people do , but doing them really well . Not just faking it . Where you really believe it . You believe that Rowlf is playing the piano . And I thought , God , that ' s amazing . And maybe that ' s more of it . It ' s just that idea , of making these puppets be very real . It ' s already a funny thing , you know , a puppet can look very funny . But to see it doing something that people can relate to is what ' s funny . " Yeah . And that ' s what has really impressed me . Seeing characters like Bobo , who seems to me like a very real security guard . And that voice - obviously exaggerated and amplified . " Well , it ' s definitely a Jim voice . Maybe the attitude isn ' t . But it ' s definitely something that comes from a lot of Jim ' s characters . But , yeah , I guess that ' s a good example . He ' s pretty plain , ( as Bobo : ) He ' s just a bear , you know ? He just likes to eat and watch TV , and whatever happens happens kind of thing . " And he sounds real . " He means it . He means that he ' s lazy . " Okay . That was a good answer . That makes sense . " So you have to weed out all this stuff , huh ? " Yeah . " Sorry . " That ' s fine . No , this is great . I ' d much rather have it be this way than have to pretend - you know , make the whole thing up . " Yes . ( Pretentious : ) You know , I believe that puppeteering is an extension of my being . " Is it . " Yes . I ' ve always felt comfortable in felt . " Have you . Well , who hasn ' t , really . " True . " Okay . This is exactly how I thought this would go . " Oh , good . " Down to the letter . All right . I ' m going back to your life . Do you mind ? " No . " Okay , back to your life . You said that you didn ' t know where you went from Dinosaurs . I think maybe . . . The Animal Show ? " The Animal Show ? Yes . No , wait a minute . . . I did , uh . . . no , I just remembered something , actually . That helps , when you tell me something . " Okay . I ' ll try to keep doing that . " Okay . The next thing I think that I did , puppet - wise , that I remember being really nervous about , was the " Kokomo " video . I did that . And then I think the next thing was The Animal Show . " So what did you do in " Kokomo , " you were one of the many . . . " Oh , I don ' t know . Weasels . I can ' t remember . Just stuff . A lot of assisting . Then The Animal Show , right . That was trippy . " Yeah , that was your first major character , then , with a voice and a personality . " Yeah , and actually , I felt somewhat comfortable up until the point when we had to shoot it , because we recorded all of the songs first for all the characters we had to do . The hard thing was that you didn ' t always know what the characters were going to look like , so you hoped that the voice and the character was going to fit the puppet . But I felt a little comfortable because I got to do that first , and I ' m pretty comfortable singing , and having fun with that . And then doing the show was like a conveyor belt . We did them so fast . It was great training , actually , because it just had to happen so quickly . You didn ' t have time to go back and fix things a lot . And , you know , Dave and Steve are just soaring through it , and I ' m trying to catch up , and Mak is just soaring through it . So . That was cool , that was fun . And I got to stay in London . Oh , and I think I did some other stuff too , but not puppet - related , I did some other suit things . I did the Royal Variety Show . Okay . So then what did I do ? " Yeah , I have your resume here , actually . Muppet Classic Theater ? " Right . Yeah . That was fun . That was a good thing . Do you want me to try and think of something about that ? " No , that ' s okay . Just whatever comes . " All right . Frank ! That was a big Frank thing . " Muppet Classic Theater ? " Yeah . Getting to work next to him . " Oh , was that the first time ? " Yeah . Working with him , yeah . That was great . " Is he generous , as a performer ? " Is he generous ? " I don ' t even know what that means ; I just read that in interviews . " Well , now that I know him , I can probably say whatever I want . Uh . . . no , is he generous ? " Like , does he upstage you ? " Always . Oh , yeah . That ' s like his goal ; he loves it . That ' s the fun of it . That ' s one of the key rules of doing Muppets . " Everybody tries to upstage each other ? " Always . Yeah . That ' s the fun part . Try to make each other laugh , screw up . But Frank , he ' s just real good , and I think also just watching him work and breaking down a scene , and to watch him take his vision of what he thinks a scene should be like , and working with other people - he ' s just a real force . He ' s great . Really good . " And the next thing is Muppet Treasure Island . " Yeah , Treasure Island . I love that character . " Clueless Morgan ? " He ' s so stupid . I just love doing that . I always wanted to do a really stupid character . And you only get to do , really , one , and then after that , they ' re all kind of the same , when it ' s just blatantly stupid . " Yeah . And if you ' re going to do one , he would be the one . " I guess . He ' s pretty stupid . And he was also like a kid , which I liked too . He was like a little - a little goat . " And something that I loved about him was that he ' s really mean . You know , he tries to torture people , he talks about cutting people ' s throats . And he totally gets away with it because he ' s so adorable . " Well , also I think - you know , we develop these backstories a lot of times with our characters that never really gets to be seen , and Kevin and I had a great relationship going with those two characters . In other things too , Kevin and I get along really well . So we had this great relationship where Polly really - obviously , he was the ringleader in the film . But Clueless did those mean things because someone told him to . He didn ' t really know that it was bad . He just did it because he thought that ' s what he was supposed to do . " So if he ' d fallen in with another crowd he would have just been really nice . " Yeah , he could have been making chocolates in a nice little factory somewhere for Betty Crocker , and that ' s what he would have been happy doing . He just didn ' t know any better . He was just a victim of circumstances . " And he gets away with it , totally . I felt - you know , leaving the film - Polly , I like him , I thought he was a funny character , but I didn ' t love him as I was leaving , because he had been mean , he was a villain . But Clueless , I actually walked out liking him more than a lot of the good characters . I liked him more than Jim Hawkins . I liked him more than a whole bunch of the good characters . I wanted to go home and buy a Clueless doll . " Well , there ' s something seriously wrong with you . " I guess . Yeah . That would be the only answer . " But thank you , I think . I appreciate that . He was definitely a cool character to do . And I think he just - again , upstaging ? Even on the set , stuff that wasn ' t in the movie . He did a lot of that stuff . So I think he got in a little more than he was supposed to be . Yeah , that ' s Treasure Island . And then I did . . . what ? Muppets Tonight . And Johnny Fiama ' s a fun one . " Is he . . . I was going to ask you who your favorite character was . " On Muppets Tonight ? My favorite . . . I ' m going to be really boring . I don ' t know . That ' s really hard to say , actually , it really is , to say favorite . Because you know what ? They ' re different parts of me . So I like them for those reasons , that I get to do that stuff . Like Johnny Fiama is actually part of my grandfather , and my dad , people in my family . He comes from that . So he ' s like my family part of me . " And you said there was something wrong with me , for liking Clueless , and now you ' re telling me that your family put together turns out to be Johnny Fiama . " I know . Isn ' t that weird ? " Yeah . " Sorry . It just reminds me of Philadelphia , of back east . My family has always been very entertaining . I ' ve had a real variety of characters in my family ever since I was a kid . So it just reminds me of that . An entertainer type , Italian . Smooth , sharp dresser kind of guy . Very sociable , you know , he can be very polite at times . He ' s very cordial at the right moment in time . " Except he ' s got this obnoxious monkey . " Right . His best friend . It ' s hard , you know , there ' s so much stuff . Because then I also think I like that because there ' s a relationship there , that ' s Brian and I , that makes that character and those two characters really special and make them my favorite . And then there ' s Seymour and Pepe , and again that ' s a relationship between Brian and I . . . " Yeah , I was going to ask you about that . And actually now that makes a lot of sense , knowing that you knew Brian for a long time . The two of you seem to team up a lot on the show . " Yeah , we ' re just hogs . We like to steal all the characters . We just like to play . You know ? We love to play . Seymour and Pepe - Pepe is really based on my wife Cristina ' s aunt , who ' s from Spain . She ' s very funny , this very funny lady . It was amazing - it just struck me , the first time I met her , that she always spoke in statements . She never really asks a question . And when she ' s asking a question , it ' s a statement , because she always ends it with " okay . " So if you ' re standing there , she ' s saying , " Thees ees a nice sweater , okay . " There ' s nothing - there ' s no real response you can have to that . You can only say , " Uh . . . okay . " " So when someone disagrees with Pepe , he gets really furious . " Well , he ' s misunderstood . He also has a problem because he has a little bit of a language barrier , and he gets frustrated about it . He knows he ' s saying it right . He knows he ' s speaking clearly . But it ' s just a little barrier thing . And he ' s got a little complex about being short , and very adamant about being called a prawn as opposed to a shrimp . A king prawn . He definitely has an attitude . So I like him for that , he ' s my favorite because of that . I really enjoy doing them all for different reasons . And I think if you ask most of the guys , I would think they probably have the same feeling . " Well , I ' ve noticed that , especially when you ' re teamed up with Brian , that your characters tend to push his characters around a lot . " Oh , really ? " Pepe sort of bosses Seymour around , and Johnny obviously is the boss of Sal . . . " Interesting , isn ' t it ? " Yeah . Do you have anything to say about that ? " Well , he ' s my boss . So I gotta get in somewhere . I can ' t let him get away with being my boss all the time . You know ? We wouldn ' t be friends . " So you ' re sort of acting out worker - management conflict . That ' s fascinating . " That ' s right . I ' m living through it . See , I can say anything I want to him when I ' m doing a puppet . " And actually all of your characters are kind of aggressive . " Are they really ? " Well , not all of them , but most of them . Johnny and Pepe and Clueless . . not aggressive , but kind of cranky ? " Cranky ? That ' s interesting . " Which is something . . . you haven ' t seen the latest MuppetZine , but it was The Cranky Issue , and I wrote an article about how the thing that I most love about the Muppets is not the sweetness and the everybody ought to love each other , but when the characters yell at each other and insult each other and sort of act out the worst parts of all of us . And we can see that , and love it , and identify with it . And your characters really , I think pretty much down the line . . . " Say what ' s on their minds . " Cranky . Yeah . " That ' s very funny . " Yeah , So where am I going now ? " Cranky . I like cranky . " Okay , I ' ll stay with crankiness , actually . I ' ll ask you the cranky question . What ' s the feeling among the puppeteers about Kevin and Tickle Me Elmo ? " Oh , we ' re all really cranky . " Are you ? Are you jealous ? " No , as a matter of fact , there ' s a Johnny Fiama doll coming out . It ' s called Don ' t Fuck With Me Johnny . " ( Laughs ) Okay . " Can you print that ? " Sure . Why not . I can print anything . " No . Are you kidding ? That was , like , amazing . That was a very cool thing . He was in shock . His head was spinning . He had to do so many things , he had to go so many places . Doing , like , ninety cities in ninety minutes . Everybody wanted Elmo . Everybody jumped on the Elmo thing . And he loved it . I mean , who wouldn ' t ? I ' m sure he was so floored . Who knows why that stuff happens ? Somebody comes up with an idea , and you have a great cute character , and then something just happens . Somebody catches on to it . " Well , fifteen years ago , it was Miss Piggy . So a bunch of the Muppets have had turns at being that . Now it ' s Elmo ' s turn . " Yeah . I think this was pretty intense . When you hear about people auctioning them off . . . It ' s really bizarre . " Yeah . So next it ' s Pepe . " Yeah . Pepe . Peel And Eat Pepe . " That would be good . Or Insult Me Pepe . " Yeah . Cause if it was Peel and Eat Pepe , you can only play with it one time . " Here ' s another cranky question . You play Carl , the big mean . . . " Carl ' s not cranky ! " No ? " He ' s hungry ! " Okay . Anything to say in Carl ' s defense ? " ( as Carl : ) Thank you ! That ' s about it . " Where do the characters come from . . . how much of the writers , and how much of you ? " It depends . It ' s not always one or the other , really . Bobo started in Mr . Willowby ' s Christmas Tree - I can ' t remember if they kept all of my voice or not . I think they did for some of it . But that ' s where I first saw that puppet , and knew that there was some kind of basic attitude to him . " I don ' t remember the bears in that even having any lines . " Yeah , I think there was just a couple , where it was something about the tree . I can ' t remember what it was exactly he said . I remember doing them . So that was that . Johnny Fiama was actually a character that I did as myself , when I first moved out here . It was just me . " Pre - monkey . The pre - monkey days . " Yeah . Actually , it was Johnny and Frankie Fiama , two brothers . Johnny played to the older crowd , and his brother was maybe about five years younger , maybe ten , and played to the younger crowd . But still , not very good entertainers . My brother and I did a ten - minute short documentary about their last concert called The Last Swing . You got to see them behind the scenes , and we did interviews . That ' s where he came from . Then when we started to talk about doing the new show , we did a workshop , and they just brought a whole bunch of puppets to this workshop , and we just started putting them on in front of a video camera and playing around with them . The only one that I ended up doing that came from that was Bobo . He was there . We changed him a little bit . Johnny came later , somebody else did drawings of him , and then I also worked with Jane Gootnick - she ' s an amazing puppet - builder , and she worked together with me , kind of figuring him out , making him look right . She just has this great sense of characters . You know , they just come . And then , of course , the writers start to think of other characters , as they ' re writing . Carl - I don ' t even know where that came from . I think somebody just wrote him . They said , there ' s this guy Carl , and he ' s going to come in and just eat something . And that ' s it . And then they just said , here ' s this puppet . Sometimes , you know , when we do read - throughs , Brian will just give us different characters to do , and if they work , we do the character , and if not , somebody else tries it . It ' s really just kind of a playing around . " Is there any kind of character that you ' ve thought about , that you want to play but haven ' t had a chance to do yet ? " No . Not really . I don ' t know if anyone has seen Howard Tubman , have you guys seen that ? I think he ' s just in Europe , for those European versions , you know , the longer stuff ? " For the extra sketches in Muppets Tonight ? " Yeah . He was fun to do . Kevin and I had fun doing - there were two characters . Howard Tubman and Carter . Howard ' s this large boor , very selfish , kind of campy in a way . He ' s very wealthy , lives in this huge mansion . And he has a butler named Carter , who ' s this really old guy who Kevin does . Like a James Mason kind of old , old guy . The writers just decided to think up a sketch about it . Actually , Howard started in a workshop too , just playing around . But he ' s one that I ' d like to do more with , cause he ' s kind of edgy . Cause in a way he ' s . . . he ' s camp , and there aren ' t really many male Muppet characters that have a funny , interesting , feminine side to them . He ' s kind of very : " Carter ? Carter , where ' s my apple butter ? " He ' s fun . And he ' s real light , he ' s very carefree . He was just fun to do ; he was different to do . A lot of people had different reactions to him , which I like . Some people thought , oh , that ' s too much . Some people thought he was funny . You try to find a balance somewhere . He ' s one that I ' d like to try to find a balance with . That would be fun to do , challenging . " Okay . . . what else ? " What kind of coffee do I like ? " Yeah , what kind of coffee do you like ? " I don ' t like coffee . Actually , I like espresso . But I don ' t have it that often . " That ' s the scoop . That ' s what ' s going on the cover . " That ' s right , you got an inside thing . " Don ' t like coffee . . . " Bill Barretta Comes Clean on Coffee . " Cool That ' s great . Now I ' m golden . Pulitzer . . . " There you go . " Watch out . What ' s the gauge by now , actually ? The comfort gauge about being interviewed ? I haven ' t been checking it . " Oh , right . Uh . . . uncomfortable . " Are you really ? " No , no . I haven ' t thought about it , so it must be okay . " Okay . Great So , Johnny Fiama . One M or two ? " One . As far as I ' m concerned . " This is what I ' m thinking . There ' s a controversy about this , I don ' t know if you know that . " I do . Cause we went through it when we started putting his name in scripts . But I ' ve always said one . " Okay . If you say one , if Johnny says one . . . " When I thought of Johnny Fiama , it was always one . For two reasons . The first one was , my mother had a cat that she called Fiama , which means " flame " in Italian . And I always thought it was spelled with one M , at least we spelled the cat ' s name with one M . So to me , his name is Johnny Flame , but in Italian it ' s Johnny Fiama . But the proper Italian spelling is two M ' s , so my Italian writers have told me . But then the second part is , I like the fact that it ' s an anagram for Mafia . " Oh ! I never thought of that . " Neither did Johnny . Although he ' s not connected to the Mafia . " Of course not . " ( As Johnny : ) I just want to make that perfectly clear . " He owes some people money . " No , he does not owe people money . Johnny ' s not in the red at all . " Oh , okay . I don ' t know where I heard that . " I don ' t either . But maybe when you find out , you could let me know . " I ' m sure I didn ' t even hear it I ' m sure it was just a dream I had , or something . How about guest stars ? Were there ones that you really liked working with , were there ones that you didn ' t work with so well ? " Uh - oh . One of those questions again . My favorite ? " See , I didn ' t say favorite . I ' m too smart for that . " Well , again , unfortunately , for different reasons , I liked different people . I liked watching Michelle Pfeiffer just relate to the characters . You know , she didn ' t think of them as puppets . She just did what she does , she ' s a great actress . Watching her work - there ' s so much you see that doesn ' t get shown . So just watching her work , I just thought she was great . And then , there ' s Tony Bennett . He kind of warmed up to it . I loved watching that happen . When he first saw the puppet - he ' s an artist , he was interested in the look of it . Physically , what it looked like , ( as Tony Bennett : ) " Oh , that ' s incredible . That ' s marvelous . " And I would talk to him with the puppet , and he didn ' t - he wasn ' t sure whether to look at me or not . Then gradually as we started shooting , we ended up - well , the way I knew that he finally warmed up to it was that we were just sitting there , waiting to shoot . I had the puppet up behind the desk - it was when we were doing the Johnny Fiama Show bit . Johnny said , " Tony , you know , one of the biggest problems I have with LA , as opposed to the East Coast - West Coast thing , is . . . " And he said , " Well , what is that , Johnny ? " And he called him Johnny . And Johnny said , " Well , you can ' t get good bread in LA . " And he said , " That ' s right ! It ' s because of the water . " And Johnny said , " Really ? Because of the water . . . " " That ' s right , because the water ' s different . " And he started to explain it , to Johnny , the difference in the breads . And I just thought , now he ' s got it . " What do you think about the future of Muppets Tonight ? What I know right now is that it ' s supposed to be coming back , and then probably after they run some , that ' s going to be it . But I don ' t know . Do you know any better than me ? " To be honest , I really don ' t . I don ' t know what they ' re going to do . My instincts tell me that if they decide to put a show on in June , there has to be this amazingly large audience , you know , that watches the show , that makes people at ABC say , oh , we need more of these . So common sense tells me that I don ' t think we ' re going to make any more . But you don ' t know . It ' s such a weird business . It ' s like Tickle Me Elmo . You never what ' s gonna happen . " So if it doesn ' t come back , what do you think is going to happen to your characters ? Are they going to survive ? " Well , I know they ' re having trouble breathing in their boxes . I don ' t know , I have no idea . Maybe we ' ll see some again . I think Bobo probably fits in a little more with some of the other guys than maybe Johnny . And I think Pepe probably fits in a little more . But I don ' t know where they would be used , or how they would come back . So to be honest , I really don ' t know . I haven ' t really thought about it . " What are you working on now ? " I ' m getting ready to work on Doctor Doolittle , with Eddie Murphy . We ' re doing some animals , animatronic stuff . So I ' m going to work on that for a while . And as far as I know , that ' s it ! That ' s all there is for work right now . That ' s up to the boss man . " What is your brother doing now ? " He ' s an animator . This past season , he did three animations for Sesame Street . He ' s a camera man and editor , a writer , a musician - he does all kinds of things . I ' m just trying to find something for the two of us to do together . We ' re always working on new ideas . We haven ' t done anything in a while together . He lives in Virginia , and he ' s enjoying the artsy lifestyle . He ' s a great guy . " So do you think you ' re going to be a puppeteer forever ? " As long as they ' ll keep me . " Excellent . That was a beautiful ending . "