We wouldn’t have been there. Robert S. McNamara (U.S. Secretary of Defense, Jan. 21 1961-1968 Feb. 29), interviewed by James Naughtie (BBC Radio 4 , Today , Wednesday June 9 2004 , 6-9am at 7:33-7:39 a.m.), audio { 5:28 , at 5:03 } : “Former U.S Defence Secretary Robert McNamara reflects