9 2004 , 7:00 p.m.), video bb { 14:33 bb } . • Greg Thielmann , interviewed by John Humphrys ( BBC Radio 4 , Today , Tuesday January 13 2004 , 6-9am at 8:14-8:22 a.m.) {BBCcat 90sx4403 } , audio { 8:35 } , copy { 8:06 , source }