NOSENKO INTERROGATION TRANSCRIPTS.
Agency: CIA
Originator: CIA
Document date: 01/01/0000
Document type: PAPER - TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

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MATEREM, RESTERED NE CIA MEADQUAICEEES 109

HOUSE: SELECT CORITE: OS ASSASSIATIOSS STAFE MENDERS

FILE: TITLE/NUNEN/SOLUM:_/X4ASCALIT

REEL #i4

INCLUSIVE DATES: -

12

x13 111,5T L5

Released under the John F. Kennedy Assassina

CUSTODIAL UNIT/LOCATION: _

- 55

Records Collection Act of 1992

(44 USC 2107 Note)

ROOM:

NW 53216 6/17/17

DELETIONS, IF ANY:

DATE

RECELVED

DATE

RETURNED

REVIEWED BY (PRINT NANE)

SIGNATURE OF REVIFWING OFFICIAL

NO DOCUMENTS MAY BE COPIED OR REMOVED FROM THIS FILE

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71-1

11 durust 1905-and

1i august 1905

THAWSLATION

B. Before BURGI

arrived along with kozlov, there was the chiel se

the Directorate; his friend, ZHIVAGA, Chlof of the Sccond Directora

((in KIor)) nt that tino.

1. I know that you rumembered that nomo vory well; we also linow hi.

asking what you did with ningr for the portod of say days

whon you were there:

Your activity during this time, directly with pundI

B. Oh, directly with BURGI -- after talking with hia, on the folloving

day..

Л:

Tho was talking.

B. KOHLOV, ((B's surnano)) .

1. That specifically did you talk about with him

Give me one example.

B. I do not remenher;

I do not

roinember.

1. ((Pause) )

Miat did KozlOv tall: about:

"B. I do not remember; I do not remenber a he tallied about many

things.

They bogan with how he llied his stay In the Soviet Union, how he

enjojed the Sovict Union, then about tourlst service.

Then, gradually they went over to: it may be disagreenble, but

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Intomation has bon mcclad thot his ceropor conduct, tint is.

about its conduct in koscow.

voll, whnt canetle mos lad told about his conduet in closcos

B. Well, ho mas told that his honosexual coalacts were known, tont ti

1s punishable under sortet law, by such and-such mn artlele, etc.,

that he is not a diplom:, did not have Alplontic luaunity and car

be sentenced under Sovlet inw for the violntion.

A. Well, want was his answur to this.

B. Well, I do not renenter; Icannot toll you.

1. Well, he said something.

13. Of course, he was frightened, and upset; he did not feel rood.

But aftor that ve gradunily rent over to saying that this could bo:

anoothed over; you understand - the foundation was laid sereby

tho

man sold, Very will, I perce to help.

A, How exactly was this sold to him; how was it proposed thit he

cooperato:

I. Well; It was snid that the Sovlet Union is fighting for peace, in:.

so forth -- sole sort of political side.

• A. Yes.

B. And that there nre people in the linited States tho cant to unlors!

a new war in tali of that nature.

A. And did he believe this.

I. Of course, no..

Hell, I an slaply tellins you that the approach ras

such....

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_And die gon show inta riotos

Yes.

11. And how dld ho road to tils.

B. Woll, now - vory unpleasant.

A.

Was iis. neg scon.

D.

Nell, of course, it wis hard ((coughs)).

1.

((lausu)) Wall, wiat cleo

Do Well, no lod up to the fomdation that, "you see, you have a noble

nission; you teach; you have students, studentr mo a soccialiste

and perhaps vill do so on Russt, vill ho diploanto, nd so fort:

"Dut mony of thono students could be usce. these students could:

be usod in Intollenco intelltrence. they may be talien for

work in intolligence, they may bu sent with varlous assigineats,

and so forth.

•Well, hore, let us may that you are tonchlan.. an... preparing

strdents

wio in the

suture could be used ta coveramant vor..

lell, ho could tell us ahoat the isolanment of stucents and so fort

there kinds of questions, many little thlngs... I cannot tell you..

Well, this

vas

the flost

conversation, the irse conversation, yes

no, r01l,. In this conversatton, the first conversation, se dotted!

the 1'8.

.In tho flist conversation, in dottod the l's..

He did not arroe, in aughmy wieh he was told to nuly Sortet

intellinenco.

ile was told -- "You understand, it is n broad terin -- to lelp

Soviet intellirence, of courso."

I reeaber I sald to him, "incerstand; no one rill as's you that go::

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• Gi: -

n.

No,

id, ilo,

1o, 19.

do men and you rocalve the photographin

I. On the followine day, ll sermo...

Re asted that thoy bo developed innediately.

1. Mat then.

That

steps vere taken:

B. This vas reported to GUS NOV, to NOGLOV; It uns shown to PERFILeYEV.

A. It ins reported to GUS'KOV, to MOLLOV, to PENFIL'YIV.

And to thon elsa:

B. Well, that is all.

and thoy bogan... wrote n report.

A. Holl, wrote a roport

for what.

B. For tho recrultment.

1. For tho recruituent.

B. The recruitment talk,

A. For the recruitment or for the recruitment talk:

B. That is the samo thug.

A:

The same thing

5. The recruitent tall is the recrultment..

It is another thing when you are carrying on a recrultuent talli, and

you do not know lf the recruitment will be accoupilshed or not.

1. A report 1s not wiltten on a recruitment talk.

SEGGET

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-

61

Fell for the rocrulteent ee it an for gour sametion ::

The report ins addrossed to SEnor.

Mo sterod the report:

i. 1ho elso.

B. PiNFIL'XIN signed at the button, and also thero vas FENLISOV's

sirnaturo.

л.

So.

¡en did you actually, or in fact open the falo on nuigI.

B.

They did not opon a file on hi.

Bofore 1060:.. here is a detail - on rocruitment talks. and

recruitments, ve did not spen filos.

Put a mole collcction of naterials -- stamped Top Sccrot; Sories "K'

sag naccased to SAMARGIS lY, and the, having already recelved the

materinla . tho First Department.

A. Well, alricht; valt a ainute -- hat.

Did they not open a file on DUNGI before 1000, or did they not open

any file at all lefore 1960.

B. I an tellin you that, prior to 1960... I was worked in 1059, I

handled the recruitment of tourists; lut we did not onen a files -

with the exception of

those ou employecs of tourist Iiras.

Because this

agent, a rccruites forciuner... ve

will not be working

with him... he was temporarily in the Soviet Union....

:. ((in English)) Alright.

In the Elven case, the MCGI Casu, after all the comprocising

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mintertal, ete., nad beca receivod, all or this caterial vas amiato

the Firet Chlet Diroctorate:

B. After the recrultuent, nitsr the rocruitment - after the foroliner's

dipperture, the materiale are pint to the First Chief Dtrectorate...

All of the materinlo.

A. To whos did you aduress then:

B: TO SAIULAROVSKIY.

•Л.

TO SAILROVSKIY; That was SA:JANOVSIlY's position. at that tine:

Chief of the Firat Directorate.

More precisely.

D.

Chief of the First Chiel Directorate.

Л..

The First Chicl. Directorate.

Rank:

B.

Major Gencral.

1. Major Goneral:

You are certain that SAIANOSKIY as Chief In 1956:

В. Yes, усв.

A..

During. what nonth did all of this business with BUrGI go on

B. July.

A. June:

B. July.

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1J.:

• 53

A. July.

Do you not concaber the ento then the paotographs tore taion.

B. I do not renenber.

Then, you fold me... that when BURGI us

In Moscor you did not acet

nim.

B. No:

A. Men did BURGI go to Kiov:.:

B. : I do not renember.

л.

That instructions were given to klev in regu'd to SUGI -- wilch,

by won, and how:

B.

¡dev was told by VCh that KOZLOV and ((D'7 surnac)) will some with

regard

to the American tourist... that we nould tall it over ((then

ve got there)).

Л.

Who talked by VCh:

B. I do not renember.

A.

What was said by VCh.

B. I already have said that ((it was)) In regard to the Merican

tourist, BURGI (*G).•

A.

When and how vere the instructions given to Kiev to neet BURGI at

the airport:

.....

B. It was alrcady snom in Kiev.

A. Did BURGI go to Kiev first,

or did you:

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--13.

lic flew out carlier.

A.

Who. flew out.

B.

KORLOV and ((B's surnauc)).

A. KOZLOV and ((B's surnane)); who else

B. No one cise.

A. STROYEV was riot ((along)):

B.

No.

A :.

Was there not another honosexual

B. . There was not.

And a honosesual from Klov:

• B..

We did not use one.

A. And you did not invite one from Odessa::

B. No..

1. Then there was not any of thie homosexuals in Kiev with BURGI:

B. No, they were not used.

A. Are you sure of this.

B.. No; they were not used; solutely (2-36).

A. ((Pause)) How many days were you in jiev before BURGI flew in:

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((inuso)) I tirink no-arrived tue day loforo, in the ercaia?.

A. The night before.

в. Хов, усо.

A. CUiGI also flew in:

•:

D. On the following day, on the colloning day.

A. On the following dny.

ок. :

Mio not him:

B.

An officer fron the Kiev Second Directorate, Iros the Turist Section,

met hin - I do not reneuver his name =- undor the cover of a

"INTURIST' representative.

now did they leave the airport

B. In an autosobilo.

A. "That kind of an autonobile.:

B. In an autonobile; INTURIST care them a car (2G).

A.

who was criving the automobile.

B. I do not reneuber; I do not know.

A. Well, that - in a ta:l.

That bolonged to the Kiev KGS.

: Did the autonobile

telone to ISTURIST.

B. I do not inow; I do not

rencaber such details -- 1f 1t kelvared to

INTRIST or to the KGB.

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1.do not rencmber..

This ald woule have had to have been surred out.

They could not thie

airtver sunt off the street.

no. Of courun, they tou an euts outle fron TiTUAlST no the oa:

Youare responsthle for this casc.

You cass on

tie day before; you vere to have workod out all the

plans.

How ald you come to the conclusion that a man from InTurIST ns

supposed to meet curGI, now dlu you select a chauffeur; on mat

basls did you scloct IVAil! and not: PETROY:

And Irin micre did he coc.

. B.

To autonoulle, I thin!, ras from liTiTISt, or maybe the autonoblle

TaB. Ero= the KGB:

Л.

Then, you s as

not inor.

tho responsible case piflcer for thie case

- do

B.

I stagly do not renenber.

A. Then the autonoillu

ins cither fron liTUTIST of from kO".

B. Frou

LTURIST Or

KGB.

A. You do not inow who was the driver.

B. No.

A. And who was the employee

fros INTURIST:

B.

There sas no employee

fron INTUT.IST.

There sas a KGB cuployee frou the Second Dirictorate roprescatin.

hirsal! as

an caployee of luIt?ISt.

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tant was dis name.

3.

I do not reuchar?:

It scene i care the moor (lonaller)).

I do not remontor it now.

1: . Tell

we tricely maat you did with bUrGI in sic.

I.

He mas not ly this cuployee, ind they not in tho car; they vent

Trua tic airport to tolt:

In the nutonobllo the employee spoke with cURGI tolliar bin that

tho botols la kicy wro fillod up, that thero vero conferences golar

on -- 'thercfore, no apolortio", - and temporarily perhaps he

could invo to stay for perhaps a day or two in one of the apartmente

maich INTUtIST rents in the center of town.

He sas told that ho would le housed temporarlly.

1s soon as there tould ba n

room available in the INTUlIST Hotol,

he would bo immediately transferred:

"Pleaso excuse us, ete, for one or two dnys".

я. Ол..

ite agreed.

B. Nell, that he can do:

A. dell... you do not remenlier the apartment on freshenatik Streot.

S. Cn kreshchatil, a tall building.

A. How many roons

did this apartient have.

B. "Three "rouns.

=. .

Fallen, you hrought his there.

Eno ras aith ila, with SinGI there:

5.

rell, he drove his and rent up with him.

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Then the ill rant,

and there, in the apartmone, wore kohlov and

1135 50117000).

a. ino sled. mas there.

MiT:1200 --I do not renonber if he ving there at that time or 18 be

hau stapped out and returned soon.

A.

Hell, tell not (IG)

B. Tho coor was opened... the hell rang - "Plenge come in".

The sillow put down the sultcascs, BUlGI's suitcass, and he loft.

ic Ictt.

And se invited ((BUGT)) to ontor tho room.

Nell, then, BUNGI uns brought. ((tliore)); ho went unstairs, and tho

INILZI8T emplojce carriod his suitcago.

в. Yes.

And the suitcase... he vent up torcther with hiu.

1. And beat up with him and with his suitcase.

And wat did thoy do with the other aultcaso...

and with the third one.

B.

((Sailing)) I cannot reply to such questions of yours in such a

sequence.

1. Hell, then, thr did you mention this suitense.

B. I have in mind the suitcase with the clothing, with the clothing.

A: lion I have a question a are you sure that BURGI and:rie belongines

vere brought there, to this apartment, as soon as they arrived there.

B. I thier that his

suitcase ung taken...

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- t:'1

A .

Not "y talnt to more proctooly, more precisely.

D.

l rio not rementer; I do not rementer; i do not ronember."

A .

los am I supposed to underatand you - tiat a man conc in with

BUndl°s sultcase, or did they come, ithout tact's sultcase

D. Understand it is you wish; I do not renchber.

1. Then way aro you tolling it if you do not romember:

((Loni: pauso)) Well, answer my question.

You woro tho case officor for thie case, ote; what did you personally

and tho othor KGB employcos mio woro with you do with bulGi's

belongings mile ho was in tho Kreshchatli apartient and shero tere

lla suitcasos:

B. ((Long pauso)). Miat do you havo in mind:

A solzuro was not conducted here.

A..

I do not havo a sotzuro in mind.

I simply an asking whore voro his belongsing at that tias.

B.: I do not remember, whether the sultcase was hrought up or ras 1n

tho automobilo.

I do not remembor.

A. How many suitcases vere thore

B. I do not remember.

^ :

men did they return SURGI's helongings his suitcasos to him.

B. Later that same day, when the discussion was finisied..

It was late.

A.

Where vere they before that

COnT

SLOA

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-70 .

How you gagi. at the begtnine, you sald ((the coployee)) brought

up the sultcagos; nov, that they more in the nuta shile or sumeshere,

and tren, they returned then late de nucht.

Moro were they:

P. One minute:

say are you tailng thy inct out of place.

You are conductin. a tendentlous interroration...

olivlously..

obsously tendentious..

It 1a clear, cloar....

A. Nothing of the kind, nothing tondentlous.

B. Only that ray, only that way; like all of tho proceding days:

1. The case officer tho vas rosporsiblo for this caso -- ho knew wat

ho was doing.

P. whether the suitcago was brought up to the

apatent or left in

the autonöhile. -- I do not ronomber:

He ((the case officer)) knew.

B. I do not remember; I do not remember.

At the end of the discussion BUNGI was driven by the same automobile

to the INTURIST Hotel. (3G).

A. Hell, how long was the discussion?

B. I an afraid to say; there was a discussion and then they all sat

down to eat.

After they left the table, they talked

arain; then they again went

back. to the tablo..

It was a long time.

A.

How

long did it last - an hour, two, ten, fifteen:

SECHLY

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- i!.

Do It lasted about five hours...

A. Approinntely shen, mat tine, mis BulGi dolivered to the hotel.

1 Approlintely, approximately, niter ton in the evendur.

A. ile uns left nlone.

D. • ((Pauso)) lle was left alono.

Ho was intchod, of courso ly survcillanco, in case ho might send a

telegram, or maso a phono call.

How many mon wore watching him:

B. I

do not know how many men wore tatline him.

A..

Who sot up tho tail?'

B. Tho Sccond Directorato...

on diroction

A. " On shoso diroctiong:

B. At the roquost of kozlov and ((B's surnano)).

1. Well, you asliod.

How many men did you asl. for -- ton, twenty:

B. It was asked that a bricade satch him.

A. How many men:

B.

We did not spocily how many...

three or

four men, or...

discussed.

....

( (Pause) )

They were told that.

was. not

A .

Wat kiad of iostructions vere given and who lave then to the

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murroll lande.

B. The instructlons weie rivon by...

PETREIXO.

1. How much -- PERENKO knew

about this opciation

You were 'responsible for this operation.

B. What kind of in!tructiong:

The only thing told to the surveillance. mas to watch him and set

it up in such a my that they not be noticed by the man triled...

that we were interested in his possibly mailing ((something)), In

whether he showed up at the telegraph office and his bchavlor.

"A..

So, what instruction was glven agents in event that he came out of

the hotel took

a taxi and left?

B.

"ell, to observe hin, where he went.

"If he went to tho railway. station, got a ticket, and loft

B. He could not do that.

They would not give him a ticket.

He had to do this all through INTURIST.

INTURIST sells the ticket.

A .

What kind of instructions vere given to the surveillance against

the event that the man in his, desperate situation decided to ruD

away to any place:

•ё,.:

B. Surveillance was only to watch and to do nothing but inform us...

A. Very well.

He comes to the railway station, finds a Militia man and explains

everything to the Militia ((mat then )).

B. The Militia

rould send, him back to InTURIST.

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-i. :

?:: -

Mere ts nothing they could do for hair.

ITURIST carrles en contact with interpreter.

well, he

arles at InTURIST and start makiug noises; then sant

B. INTURIST also Immediatoly will 1nfor

the opcrational

officer.

A. Very well.

If he goes to sone government office early in the mornins and he

tells them what happened and starts arguing -- "What kind of order

I's thcré in the Soviet Union:

Loo!: at that they are doing to me!"

B: Mere, where can he go:

A.

On the street, on the stroct, and he will be shouting in the streets.

. No, nover in history has it happened.

A. It has happened, and got only once.

-B.

I do not know - not on the street.

1. You worked there;

you must know of such instances -- they nappened.

B. He could go only one pince - to INTURIST, INTURIST, and tell'them

what happened.

A. As man finds hiuself in a desperate situntion, and he knows that

INTURIST is connected with this -- he goes to the railvay station,

or he takes a taxi to the alrport, etc. and starts a:plaining his

situation; that he is a foreigner, that he is a professor, and he

will leave until they call....

((XG; A and B speak at the same time.))

в.

... You are takiag an exception as an example

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-74

In this case, the tall would make known there he and gone and sit

silould be done. (NG)

The question that he would escapc, somethere did not arive.

n. Alriant, lie fois

to the post ofileo and sonds a telegrain: sant nost

B. . The

telegran rould not be. sent without the sanction of the klev

Second Directorate.

1. May would it not be sent? ((Pause))

Who gave the instructions?

I asked once; I amasking a second tine - how did you five

instructions:

what did you say:

If you vere there, you must know in detail.

B. I am telling you.

What are you asking about - the surdllance:

We startcd talking about the surveillance.

I say - at night he gets up, and goes to send a telegran; what 18

the tall supposed to do?

B. The tail is supposed to notify the case officet.

That Is all.

A.

lihom.'

B. PETRENKO.

A. Why PETRENKO?

B. Because he is the local man; he maintains contact with them.

A. PETRENKO cannot make the decision; you are responsible for this case.

Ithat does PETRENKO do?

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÷ 95

D. PERRITO, PETERO notifles KOGLOV and ((i's surnano)) .

1. KoaLov and ((B's surnane)) .

ö. Inen, ire incidied mit? üt wad:.

A. Ok; Be have renchod tho end.

licll, where did ((3's surnano)) spend the night -- the first night

he was in Kicv:

B. In a hotel.

A. In which ono:

B. ilo -- with KOZLOV -- also stayed at the INTURIST hotel, on another

floor.

A :

What is the name of the hotel?

B. INTURIST.

A.

There is it situated?

B.

:1

do not remember.

A.

Then, you stayed at the same INTURIST hotel as BURGI, but on another

floor.

B.

On the other sido.

A. How far was this from BURGI:

B.

I do not know how far.

:

I uld not measure it.

It was on another floor.

A.. Did you listen to BURGI; in his room:

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- 70 -

D.. No; he mas-nlone.

If he mere to

phonc..

B. On, telophone, tolephone - of course; on the button.

Л. Yс8.

B. The telepione was put on a button, on a button.

((Dauso)) The chief of the hotol sorvice ms contacted, and INTURIST

was told to inform tho KGB 1f BURGI roquested anything.

A: How much time did you spend in klov on the fURGI caso

. Woll, ve came day beforo ((BURGI arrived)); that mas tho first day.

I think we spont lour daye in all, threo of pour days

A .

Whero did you stay all of this time

I в.

What - liver

We only spent the night in the hotel, becnuse we ilways were late.

1. Tricn you stayed at the same hotel and you did not chango rooms.

B. No.

A. And SURGI also stayed in the sane room all tho time:

B. Yes.

A. Then, you did not meet lim in Moscow.

Tell me how and under what

circumstances you met hin for the first

time. in kiev.

B. Hell, when he cane to the apartment.

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• 77 -

. A.

And how did you Introduce sours:lf.

B. I do not remember; I do not recal.

A. How did you address him:

B..

at the beginning, BulGh, and aftor tint, durin. the discussion, as

Richard, Richard.

A.

Ok; how did ho address you:

B. I do not remember; I do not senembor.

How did ho address kozlov

B. I nlso do not remembor.

A..

PETRENKO.

I do not remembor.

A.

How did KOZLOV Introduce blussly to him'

B. I do not remember.

A. How did PETRENKO Introduce hiasell:

B. I do not remember; (XG).

A. Well, what did ho call KosLoY:

B.. I do not remember.

A.

You do not remember how you Introduced yourself; did you give him

your nanei

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-

n..

I nave some name. - mint oles clut t

not remember.

A. OK: mant lind of a nano did konLor rive:

-

13.

I nisu do not rementer.

A. PETUNKO.

B. I do not rumember.

1.

Hell, how uid le call you -- iley, you ((ranillar for - ty))":

B. . (XG) .

- 1.

Woll, rocrultment censures aro takon; probnbly more os less a

tricndly talk goes on, you have to catabliai wint you are going to

call oach othor; for instanco, Ivan Ivanovich:

B.

But I do not renenber whother I havo him my surname or I said "Yurly"

A .

You could not say,

"Hey, you ((faniltar form - ty))."

B. Well, as "uy. ((polito form - you))"

1. Ono cannot Just say. "Vy" 1f ho wants to gny, "vy, come hero."

B. No, ho would simply say, 1f lie vants to use something, "I would

Ilko to ask this or that."

You can address a porson without calling him by name.

...

A.... One cannot always go

without names; you called him by nage.

((XG; A and B, speak at the same time.))

B. But that was in the beginning;

and then, it began by names.

SECRET

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## Page 24

104-10227-10005

-12 -

lat lie aleo, must call jou ly some nano.

But, you underatana, I do not renchbor,

I do

nut renenter.

A. Wid he call you by nage

B. "I do not remember, I in not remember.

1.

That - havo you forrotten your namo:

B. I do not remember whether I gavo him my own ((nanc)) or another.

A .

Holl, toll mo about your activities with BurGI in ricv; mat did

you personally do:

((End of Rcol #13))

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