EXECUTIVE SESSION
Agency: HSCA
Originator: HSCA
From: TARASOFF, BORIS
Document date: 4/12/78
Document type: TRANSCRIPT

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JFK Assassination System

Identification Form

Agency Information

Date:

10/19/20

AGENCY: HSCA

RECORD NUMBER :

180-10110-10001

RECORD SERIES:

SECURITY CLASSIFIED TESTIMONY

AGENCY FILE NUMBER :

008215

Released under the John

F. Kennedy

Assassination Record.

Collection Act of 1992

i44 USC 2107 Note) .

Case#:N 54756 Date:

10-31-2017

Document Information

ORIGINATOR :

HSCA

FROM:

[Restricted]

TO :

TITLE:

EXECUTIVE SESSION

DATE:

PAGES:

SUBJECTS:

04/12/1978

42

CIA, METHODOLOGY

[Restricted]

OSWALD, LEE, POST-RUSSIAN PERIOD, TRAVEL, TRIP TO

MEXICO

MEXICO CITY

DOCUMENT TYPE: TRANSCRIPT

CLASSIFICATION:

Unclassified

RESTRICTIONS:

3

CURRENT STATUS:

Redact

DATE OF LAST REVIEW :

01/01/2003

OPENING CRITERIA:

COMMENTS :

Duplicate enclosed. Box 1.

v9.1

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cONTENTS

TESTIMONY OF:

Boris Tarasoff

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EXECUTIVE SESSION

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WEDNESDAY, APRIL 12, 1978

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U.S. House of Representatives,

Subcommittee on the Assassina-

tion of John F. Kennedy of

the Select Committee on

Assassinations,

Washington, D.C.

The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:50

р.I. in room 1310, Longworth House Office Building, Hon.

Richardson Preyer (Chairman of the Subcommittee) presiding.

Present: Representatives Preyer, Dodd, Fithian and

Sawyer.

Also present: E, Berning, R. Morrison, G. Fonzi,

J, Wolf, M. Glanagan, A. Purdy, J, Hornbeck, I. C. Mathews,

G. Cornwell, W. Cross, H, Leap, M. Wills, D. Hardway, R.

Genzman and C. Berk.

Mr. Dodd, The Committee will come to order.

For the record, we are continuing in Executive Session.

Present are Congressman Fithian and myself, Congressman

Dodd.

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For the record, again, it should be noted that the

witness is appearing of his own volition and not as a result

of a subpoena and I would ask the witness to rise and be

sworn.

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Would you stand up for me please, sir?

Would you raise your right hand?

Do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but

the truth?

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes, sir, I do.

MI. Dodd. I am going to read -- first of all, I want

to ask you, Parasoff, is that the correct pronunciation?

MI. Tarasoff. Yes.

MI. Dodd. First of all, Mr. Tarasoff, you have

received a copy of the rules of the Committee?

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes, sir.

Mr. Dodd. You had an opportunity to look over those

rules?

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes, sir.

Mr. Dodd, I am going, pursuant to our rules, at this

pacticular juncture, I am going to read, for your benefit,

the House Resolution 222, which was a resolution that gave

birth to this Committee, and that resolution states that

this Committee is mandated to conduct a full and complete

investigation and study of the circumstances surrounding the

assassination and death of President John F. Kennedy,

Including determining whether the existing laws of the United

States concerning the protection of the President and the

investigatory jurisdiction and capability of agencies and

departments, are adequate in their provisions and enforcement,

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and whether there was full disclosure of evidence and

information among agencies and departments of the United

States government and whether any evidence or information

not in the possession of an agency and department would have

been of assistance in investigating the assassination and

why such information was not provided or collected by that

agency or department; and to make recommendations to the

House, if the Select Committee deems appropriate, for the

amendment of existing legislation or the enactment of new

legislation.

Now, Mr. Tarasoff, I am going to ask counsel, Mr.

Robert Ganzman who is sitting in front of you, to your

right, to proceed with some questions, after which Mr.

Fithian and myself may have some follow-on questions for

you.

We are grateful for your appearance before this Comnittee

and we will await your response to some of these questions.

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TESTIMONY OF BORIS TARASOFF

Mr. Genzman. Mr. Tarassof, would you give your full

name and address for the record?

Mr. Tarasoff. My full name is Boris D. Tarasoff,

residing at the present time in the vicinity --

MI. Dodd. Excuse me, I want to know for the record,

you do not have counsel with you and, according to our

rules, you could have counsel with you if you desire. I

remind those that you are here that you could speak up a

little louder. If you do not hear a question accurately,.

chirp right up and tell us you want us to speak louder.

Go ahead, counsel.

Mr. Genzman. Thank you.

Mr. Tarasoff, would you

give your full name and

address for the record?

Mx. Tarasoff. My name is Boris D. Tarasoff and the

address is Bela Hora, Mexico.

Mr. Genzman. Mr. Chairman, at this time I would like

to introduce into the record a document to be labelled

JFK Exhibit 94.

MI. Doda. Without objection, so ordered.

(The document reférrea to was

marked JFK Exhibit No. 94 for

identification and will be found

in the files of the Subcommittee.)

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Mr. Genzman. Would the Clerk give this document to

Mr. Tarasoff?

Mr. Tarasoff, have you previously been shown a copy of

JFK Exhibit No. 943

Mr. Tarasoff. A copy, the one that you gave us?

Mr. Genzman. I am directing your attention to the

document that the clerk just

• gave you, Mr. Tarasoff. Have

you previously been shown a copy of that letter which has

been labelled JFK Exhibit No. 94?

Mr. Tarasoff. Just this morning.

Mr. Genzman. Fine. You were shown a copy of the letter

this morning?

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes.

Mr. Genzman. Thank you.

Is it your understanding, Mr. Tarasoff, that this

document is a letter dated March 23, 1978 from the CIA which

authorized any individual who has executed the Secrecies

Agreement with the CIA or who considers himself bound by such

a secrecy agreement with the CIA to furnish this Committee

with information within its scope and jurisdiction?

MI. Tarasoff. Yes.

Mr. Genzman. Mr. Chairman, my questions will involve

three general areas. First, the CIA's surveillance operar

tions in Mexico City around 1963, Then the CIA's surveillance

with specific reference to Lee Harvey Oswald's contacts with

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the Soviet and Cuban Embassies in Mexico City about this

time. And finally, identification techniques as applied

to the surveillance of Oswald in Mexico City.

First of all, Mr. Tarasoff, what is your present

occupation?

Mr. Tarasoff. Pardon me?

MI. Genzman. What is your present occupation?

Mt. Tarasoff. I have retired from the service, seven

years ago.

Mr. Genzman. How long have you been retired, seven

years?

MI. Tarasoff. Yes.

Mr. Genzman, Did you work for the CIA before your

retirement?

Mr. Tarasoff. Oh, yes.

Mr. Genzman. Were you an agent, an officer or an asset

for the CIA?

Mr. Tarasoff. I was a staff officer.

Mr. Genzman. Could you detail for the Committee your

assignnents with the CIA around the time of 1963?

Mr. Tarasoff, I started working in Mexico City in

June, 1963 and continued up until the end of October, 1970.

Mr. Genzman, Were you aware of any surveillance

operations conducted by the CIA in Mexico City?

Mr. Tarasoff. Well, I was aware, because - may I

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qualify my statement, expand it a little bit?

MI. Genzman.. Would you repeat that, please?

Mr. Farasoff. IMay I expand?

MI. Genzman. Certainly.

MI. Tarasoff. In 1960, I came to Mexico City to replace

a friend of mine who was working in the same capacity and

I stayed with Mexico City for four months in 1960 and I

went back to my regular occupation with DdI.

And that is the Documents Section, CIA. And after

that, I tried to be assigned to a job in Mexico City which

I finally succeeded in doing. So therefore, when this

friend of mine went back to Washington, I replaced him in

Mexico City In June, '63.

MI. Genzman. What were your duties in Mexico City?

MI. Tarasoff. You nean during my TDY or after?

Mr. Genznan. I an speaking about your duties regarding

surveillance opprations in Mexico City. Hould you tell us

what your duties were?

MI. Tarasoff. My duties were on a less permanent --

on a more or less permanent basis ~= to receive the tapes

first, then to translate from Russian into English the

conversation that was on the tape and to transcribe the

whole thing.

Mr. Genzman. Where did these tapes originate?

Mr. Tarasoff, The tapes originated right there in

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Mexico City because some of the telephone wires leading

to areas, establishments, were tapped. Therefore, as a

result, we had these conversations on the tape.

Mr. Genzman.

Were some of these tapes a result of

telephone taps on the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City?

Mx. Tarasoff. Pardon, I did not hear the question.

Mr. Genzman. Were some of these tapes which you dealt

with the result of telephone taps on the Soviet Embassy in

Mexico City?

Mr. Tarasoff. That is correct.

MI. Genzman. Were you responsible for the translation

or transcription of tapes from other operations besides the

Soviet Embassy operation?

Mx. Tarasoff. Yes, there were several operations going

on as a result of which we got tapes also, but they were

taken of the so-called bugs, were planted in several strategic

spots, dealing with Soviet nationals, Therefore, I had to

transcribe them also.

Mr. Genzman, Did you work inside the American Embassy?

MI. Tarasoff. The American Embassy?

Mr. Genzman, Yes.

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes, when I was in IDY,.

MI. Genzman, I see. But as part of your transcription

and translation of these tapes, did you work inside the

American Embassy or outside of the Embassy in 1963?

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MI. Tarasoff. In 1963, I was completely divorced

from the Embassy. We worked, so to speak, on our own.

Mr. Genzman. Did you have contacts inside the American

Embassy with whom you dealt in 1963?

Mr. Tarasoff. Well, we had the so-called contact man

who delivered the tapes and, the next day, he would pick

them up and deliver the next batch to be transcribed and

so it went, around the clock, with the exception of Sunday.

There was no delivery, but Monday I had double work to

do that included Sunday's and Saturday's.

Mr. Genzman. Are you saying that you would receive

tapes the day after they were made?

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes.

Mr. Genzman. And that you would deliver them the

following day, after you transcribed them and translated

them?

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes.

Mr. Genzman. Do you remember the names of any of your

contacts who either gave you the tapes or received the tapes

from you along with the transcriptions, when you were finished

with them?

Mr. Tarasoff. Well, the first contact was Radford

Zoronde, After quite awhile, his name was Rudy. I do not

know whether it was a pseudonym of a true nane. That is all

I know about him.

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Mr. Genzman. Do you know the nationality of the

person you believe was called Rudy?

Mr. Tarasoff. I think he was a Pole.

Mr. Genzman. Could you give us a description?

Mr. Tarasoff. Tall, receding forehead, light hair,

more or less regular featured, nothing outstanding about

him.

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MI. Genzman. Can you give any other identifying

information for rudy, as to his family, possibly?

Mr. Tarasoff. He was married to a French woman and it

seemed that they did not get along. Whether she divorced

him after -- it was some kind of a mix-up in his family

life.

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And the chief man recognized him by the fact he worked

in Indochina as a transcriber. His Russian was nonexistent

after I found out, so he was just coasting along.

Mr. Genzman. I would like to give you several pieces

of physical description and ask you if these fit the person

you referred to as Rudy.

Did this person have blond hair?

Mr. Tarasoff. As far as I recollect, I think so.

Mr. Genzman. Was his height 5 foot six inches?

Mr. Tarasoff. Pardon me?

Mr. Genzman, Was his height approximately five feet

six inches, or taller or shorter?

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Mr. Tarasoff. No.

He was taller than I.

MI. Genzman. I see.

Would you describe his face as being thin or full?

Mr. Tarasoff. As far as I remember, he was regular

size, but slightly slimmer.

MI. Genzman. Can you tell me whether he spoke Russian?

MI. Tarasoff. No, he did not speak Russian. As I

said before, his Russian was rather limited.

MI. Genzman. Are you saying he spoke poor Russian?

Mr. Tarasoff. He had hardly spoken Russian.

MI. Genzman. I see.

What exactly did you receive from your contact and

what exactly did you then

give to this contact after you

were finished with it?

Mr. Tarasoff. After the tapes were processed by me,

at first, they wanted me to do the Spanish before, but there

was such a specific volume, I just could not cope with it.

So therefore, the Spanish was taken away from me and given

back to a place where they were recording it for the Mexican

personnel to transcribe it in spanish, because most of the

people at the Embassy knew Spanish,

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Mr. Genzman. Are you saying then that you did not, in

fact, transcribe and translate the Spanish sections of the

tapes?

Mr. Tarasoff. No, after a while I transcribed only

Russian.

Mr. Genzman. As part of this operation, do you ever

have occasion to have contact with a Mr. Herbert Monell?

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes, definitely.

Mr. Genzman. Can you tell me what his position was?

Mr. Tarasoff. He was an officer of some sort in charge

of operations. What precisely he was doing I cannot describe

because it was strictly his business.

Mr. Genzman. Did you ever have occasion to have contact

with AnneGoodpastär as part of your operation?

Mr. Tarasoff. I know the people, Herbert Monell, Good-

ure

paster, through my stay in Mexico City in 1960 because at

that time, I was inside the embassy. I had to abide by the

rules of the embassy, for instance, start work at 9:00 in

the morning and terminate at 6. Sometimes there was so little

work in transcribing the Russian portion of the tape that I

was just hanging around doing nothing.

Mr. Genzman. In conjunction with your transcribing

and translation operation, did you ever have occasion to make !

personality assessment or voice identification of the people

whose voices you heard on the tapes?

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Mr. Tarasoff. That was my idea that I suggested to them

after I came for my regular tour of duty, to have the voice

sample. The idea was rejected. On what grounds I do not

know.

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Anyway, after about three or four months they did come

out with a suggestion that I start saving those voice samples.

I would put them on 8 millimeter reels, movie reels. At

first I had a -- I do my own movies.

Then we had to run

around Mexico City looking for empty reels.

We got quite a collection of voice samples.

Some of

them have been turned over to the embassy people. At the

end of my tour, of course, everything was turned over.

Mr. Genzman. Do you ever make personality assessment?

Mr. Tarasoff. Personality assessment?

Mr. Genzman. Personality assessment based on the infor-i

mation which you heard on the tapes or based upon any emotions

you detected from the tapes?

Mr. Tarasoff. Will you be more descriptive if it does

not interfere with your time? The thing is Mr. Manell one

day suggested to me that I do the character study based

solely upon the audit part of the tapes. I thought it was

an excellent idea because this was a challenge to me, how to

describe a person solely upon his intonations, inflection,

et cetera, what he is talking about.

It was interesting work and I think it was appreciated

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by the station because I got my promotion very shortly

thereafter.

Mr. Genzman. Thank you. Did you ever have any connec-

tion with the Cuban Embassy surveillance operation in Mexico

City?

Mr. Tarasoff. No.

Mr. Genzman. Do you know of any people, besides the

people you have already named, who were connected with sur-

veillance operations either in conjunction with the Soviet

Embassy or the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City?

Mr. Tarasoff. I cannot answer that. I do not know.

Mr. Genzman. In conjunction with the personality assess-

ment which you sometimes made based on what you heard from

tapes, do you have occasion to make comments on the transcript

tion sheet when you detected something about the person's

personality from the tapes?

Mr. Tarasoff. First, I used to make just a short

synopsis saying, well, "This fellow is saying in an agitated

voice", and so forth. I would inject some of my personal

feeling about a person. The station told me to eliminate

it because they did not want to see that. If I had anything

to say about a person, I should use a separate sheet of

paper for that purpose.

Mr. Genzman. Thank you, Were the transcripts which you

made original or did they include both originals and carbon

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copies?

Mr. Tarasoff. Carbon copies, I think. We made one

original and three at first, if I am not mistaken. Then

there was too much repetition, so one carbon copy was dis-

carded.

Mr. Genzman. Are you saying, then, that the procedure

was changed so that you had one original and two carbon

copies?

Mr. Tarasoff. I think that is correct.

Mr. Genzman. Thank you. What did you do with the ori-

ginal and the carbons?

Mr. Tarasoff. When my wife was picked up on the payroll!

to continue her work with the CIA, her job was to mark down

the date and the embassy's telephone number or military

attache's number or whatever number it is. She was told to

put each conversation on a separate piece of paper and send

it to the station.

Later on there was such a mess of stuff being sent back

they said, "Can't you figure out which is pertinent and which

is superfluous and just superfluous? If

somebody calls in

and blabs about inconsequential things, tear them up and put

them in the wastepaper basket."

That is it.

Mr. Genzman. Are you saying your wife cut up at least

one of the copies of the transcript?

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes.

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Mr. Genzman. And sent those cut-up parts to the

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embassy?

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes.

Mr. Genzman. Was it the carbon copy she cut up and

sent to the embassy to be filed?

Mr. Tarasoff. One carbon copy was cut up. There were

two carbon copies and an original went back to the station.

Mr. Genzman. Mr. Tarasoff, were these transcriptions

you made literal transcriptions or sample conversations?

Mr. Tarasoff. I did not get the question.

Mr. Genzman. The transcriptions which you made, were

these original literal transcriptions or were they merely

summaries of conversations?

Mr. Tarasoff. Before when I arrived at the IDY, my

friends told me how it worked. It was this fellow calls up

and says this, that and the other, hang up. Herbert Manell

insisted I do everything verbatim.

Mr. Genzman. Besides the little translation which you

put on your transcript, did you include any comments?

Mr. Tarasoff.

Sometimes, very short, because as I said

before, the long ones they frowned upon. "If you want it,

put it on a separate sheet of paper."

Mr. Genzman. What type of comments did you commonly

make?

Mr. Tarasoff. You mean the short form or what?

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Mr. Genzman. The short one.

Mr. Tarasoff. The short form, I said "Well, the fellow

seems to be agitated", for instance. That is all.

Mr. Genzman. Did you ever make these comments on sepa-

rate sheets of paper?

Mr. Tarasoff. After I started doing character studies,

I would just keep them and consult them whenever I started

doing one of the descriptive things.

Mr. Genzman. Would you have put any type of identifying

information on the transcript?

Mr. Tarasoff. Can you repeat the question?

Mr. Genzman. Besides the translation of the literal

conversation, did you have occasion to put identifying

information concerning the people who were speaking on the

transcript, itself?

In other words, if you could identify the people speaking

did you note that on the transcript?

Mr. Tarasoff. This is the way it worked. We knew

precisely who would be living, for instance, in the film's

office. If someone answers, we know it was the chief film's

official. Once you get used to the person's voice or how he

speaks and so forth, it was practically no trouble at all to

identify.

Mr. Genzman. On the transcript did you ever refer to

the speakers in any other ways aside from their names which

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you identified?

Mr. Tarasoff. Would you clarify that question?

Mr. Genzman. Certainly. On your transcripts did you

ever use any other identifying information besides proper

names for the individuals who were speaking? Did you ever

know whether the speaker was inside the embassy or whether

the speaker was outside the embassy?

Mr. Tarasoff. Oh, that was very easy, especially if I

did not know who was speaking. If the call comes in, you

put down "Man Outside", "MO", or whoever answers from the

embassy you put down "MI", man inside.

Usually the calls to the embassy came to the small

booth in front of the gate. There were three people usually

on duty all the time. So, their voices I knew personally,

well, this fellow answers, whatever the caller wants, he

transfers the call to the main building.

Mr. Genzman. In your transcription do you ever make

comnents as to the quality of the language spoken by the per-

son or did you ever make reference to any prior conversation

which that individual had made?

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes, I had to do that because sometimes

calls came in and the fellow speaks Russian. Well, you would

have to let them know exactly how he talks.

For instance, there were several Jewish merchants in

Mexico City who spoke Russian, either with a Jewish accent or

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rather poorly. So I would make a comment to that effect at

first probably, because later on if this fellow called back

and forth, his wife wanted to have a fur coat and so forth,

you do not have to mention every time that he speaks with a

terrible accent when you knew exactly who the fellow was and

put down his name.

Mr. Genzman. Do you think at this time that you would

be able to recognize a transcript which you had made in

1963?

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Mr. Tarasoff. It is a long time ago. I think I would

recognize my mode of typing it out.

Mr. Genzman. You mentioned earlier that your wife

helped you on occasion in your operations.

Mr. Tarasoff. That is right.

Mr. Genzman. Can you tell us exactly how she assisted

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Mr. Tarasoff.

Usually there was some English-speaking

person on the line that did not need any translation, just

transcribing. Then I would ask my wife to listen. Of course

she had a much keener sense of hearing than I.

Consequently, she would take over and type out this

particular conversation. At first she was not working for

a year in Mexico City, but she was helping me out nevertheless.

After she was picked up, she gave me all the help necessary

to clip those entries

and paste them on a paper and stamp the

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date and so forth.

Mr. Genzman. Would it be fair to say that your wife

handled the English language conversation on the tapes re-

ceived and you generally handled the Soviet language conver-

sations on the tapes received?

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes, but sometimes if the conversation

was simple and not too long, I would do it myself.

Mr. Genzman. Which language are you referring to?

Mr. Tarasoff. English.

Mr. Genzman. Did anyone else assist you in your opera-

tion besides your wife?

Mr. Tarasoff. No. You see, I would like to explain, we!

were completely removed from the embassy. If we got into any

kind of jam, we could not count upon the help from the embassy

or from the CIA. We were entirely on our own.

Mr. Genzman. At this time, Mr. Chairman, do you have

any questions concerning the general surveillance operation

in Mexico City which Mr. Tarasoff was involved with?

Mr. Fithian. Mr. Sawyer?

Mr. Sawyer. Not right now, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Fithian. Mr. Tarasoff, you said you worked by your-

self and if you got into any difficulty you were not to indi-

cate any association with the agency or with the embassy?

Mr. Tarasoff. That is correct, sir.

Mr. Fithian. You mailed back the translations on a

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regular basis?

Mr. Tarasoff. It was not mailed. It was delivered

personally.

Mr. Fithian. So you went to the embassy daily?

Mr. Tarasoff. No. We had a courier, or whoever he was,

who would pick up the stuff and deliver the next batch to me

to be transcribed.

Mr. Fithian. How long did you work at this job? I

think you mentioned it earlier.

Mr. Tarasoff. How long I worked outside?

Mr. Fithian. Yes, in Mexico.

Mr. Tarasoff. About seven-and-a-half years.

Mr. Fithian. I have no other questions, counsel.

Mr. Genzman. Mr. Tarasoff, in the course of your duties:

did Lee Harvey Oswald come to your attention?

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes.

Mr. Genzman. Do you remember the time?

Mr. Tarasoff. The timê?

Mr. Genzman. Around what period did Lee Harvey Oswald

come to your attention as a result of your duties in the

surveillance operation?

Mr. Tarasoff. At the end of September I think it was,

1963.

Mr. Genzman. How did he come to your attention?

Mr. Tarasoff. First of all, he called -- as far as I

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recall, he tried to speak Russian but I think his Russian

was so poor that I did not understand. I cannot recall with-

out seeing the transcript

Mr. Genzman. When you say that Lee Harvey Oswald called

are you saying he called the Soviet Embassy?

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes. He called the Soviet Embassy as far

as I can remember. After that -- let us see what happened --

Mr. Genzman. Let me ask you this, Mr. Tarasoff. Are

you saying Lee Harvey Oswald's call to the Soviet Embassy in

1963 was picked up by means of this surveillance operation?

Mr. Tarasoff. I would say yes, I think that is what

happened. It was picked up on the tape.

Mr. Genzman. Did you translate and transcribe this

conversation which was picked up on tape?

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes. As far as I remember there were

two conversations. There might have been more. I am not

certain.

Mr. Genzman. Mr. Tarasoff, at this time I would like

to show you several documents which deal with the Mexico City

surveillance operation and ask you to comment on it.

These documents, for information purposes for the Congress-

men, are contained on pages one, two, ten and eleven of the

packet of exhibits which was given to them prior to the

testimony.

Mr. Tarasoff, have you seen these documents before?

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Mr. Tarasoff. Yes.

Mr. Genzman. When were these shown to you?

Mr. Tarasoff. Yesterday.

Mr. Genzman. I would like to first draw your attention

to the document which is labeled page two at the bottome of

the page, in the bottom right-hand corner of the page.

believe the first document you have in your hand is labeled

"P2". Do you have that document in front of you?

Mr. Tarasoff. Okay, thank you.

Mr. Genzman. Can you tell us what you know about this

document, Mr. Tarasoff?

Mr. Tarasoff. This was written by me.

Mr. Genzman. You are referring to the handwriting on

the left-hand side of the page which states "Lienvoy"?

Mr. Jarasoff. That is right. That is in my handwriting!

Now, the next line where it says '28 September, 63 and 156055"

was stamped by my wife. She was not employed yet and I had

to do it myself. She helped me to stamp this date and the

number of the Soviet Embassy below it.

Mr. Genzman. Mr. Tarasoff, do you remember transcribing

this particular conversation, and I would like to refer you

to the English speaking portion of the words on this page

beginning with "Please see the Spanish transcription"?

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes.

Mr. Genzman. Do you recall that this piece of paper was

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part of your transcription operation, that is, do you recall

making this transcription?

Mr. Tarasoff. This part is not mine at the top. But

below it looks like the one I used, with slashes instead

of brackets.

Mr. Genzman. Would you explain what the slash marks

are used for?

Mr. Tarasoff. It is used to make reference to extra-

neous material which is not included in the speech. It is

like a comna.

For instance, "MO takes the phone and says in broken

Russian", that is my comment.

Mr. Genzman. Does this transcription agree with your

recollection of the conversation involving Oswald? Does

this page of transcription agree with your recollection of

a conversation involving Lee Harvey Oswald and a person in the

Soviet Embassy in Mexico City?

Mr. Tarasoff. I can safely say that it does, but of

course at that time, we did not pay too much attention to

this business because we had several callers who would speak

in English or try to practice their Russian. Anyway, since

this was of no importance I did not bother to expand.

Mr. Genzman. You stated earlier that the transcription

states that person spoke in broken Russian. Does this agree

with your recollection of Oswald's voice on the tape?

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Mr. Tarasoff. Unfortunately I cannot recall the tone

of his voice or what he said.

Mr. Genzman. Can you recall what language he used?

Mr. Tarasoff. If he used Russian, it was unintelligible,

That is why they probably got somebody who could speak English

later on.

Mr. Genzman. As a result of this conversation, were

you able to identify the person speaking as Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. Tarasoff. I can remember two conversations that

were spoken by Oswald.

Mr. Genzman. I am referring to the first conversation,

to the first document.

Mr: Tarasoff. The first conversation, yes, I think

that is the one I have done.

Mr. Genzman. I am referring to this document and this

document alone at the moment. From this particular document

which relates to a conversation, were you able to determine

that the speaker was Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. Tarasoff. I would have no idea who was talking at

that time.

Mx. Genzman. I would next like to refer you to page

10, the document labeled "PlO" at the bottom right-hand corner.

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes, I have it.

Mr. Genzman. Could you identify this document?

Mr. Tarasoff. It looks exactly like the way I would do it.

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It was inconsequential at the time. It could have been just

a mistake in phone number. I do not know why he called this

particular number if he knew the previous embassy number.

Mr. Genzman. Aside from this document do you have any

independent recollection of this type of conversation?

Mr. Tarasoff. This particular one?

Mr. Genzman. Yes.

Mr. Tarasoff. No, it was rather run-of-the-mill conver-

sation.

Mr. Genzman. Mr. Tarasoff, I would next like to direct

your attention to the document labeled "Pl" in the bottom

right-hand corner. Could you identify this document?

Mr. Tarasoff. This is definitely mine.

Mr. Genzman. What makes you say that?

Mr. Tarasoff. Because I underlined -- maybe I will

start from the beginning.

We got a request from the station to see if we can pick

up the name of this person because sometimes we had a so-called

"defector" from the United States that wanted to go to Russia

and we had to keep an eye on them. Not I -- the station.

Consequently they were very hot about the whole thing.

They said, "If you can get the name, rush it over immediately

Therefore, it is very seldom that I underlined the name be-

cause I put them in capitals. In this case I did because it

was so important to them.

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Mr. Genzman. Can you tell us exactly what lead to this

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request?

Mr. Tarasoff. What?

Mr. Genzman. Can you tell us exactly what lead to this

request?

Mr. Tarasoff. I have no idea what lead to it. That

was my only main point, to find the name, to get the name of

this person and deliver it as soon as possible to the stationi

Mr. Genzman. Can you speculate as to why this request

was made?

Mr. Tarasoff. It would be simply a speculation. If he

called the Cuban Embassy and our people knew about it, then

they really would be pressed to get the name.

Mr. Genzman. Are you saying then that there is a possi-

bility that Oswald spoke to the Cuban Embassy personnel in

addition to the Soviet Embassy personnel and that the people

you dealt with in your operation made that connection and

consequently made an urgent request that this person be

identified?

Mr. Tarasoff. There is a possibility, I think, that.

that is exactly what happened.

Mr. Genzman. Again, can you tell us what features con-

cerning this document labeled "Pl" at the bottom lead you to

believe that it was done by you?

. Mr. Tarasoff. Which one, "PI"?

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Mr. Genzman. Yes. You stated earlier that "Lee Oswald"

is underlined?

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes.

Mr. Genzman. Do you remember this conversation indepen-

dent of this document?

Mr. Tarasoff. Independently, по.

Mr. Genzman. Do you remember whether Oswald spoke English

or Russian during this conversation?

Mr. Tarasoff. As far as I remember, he was speaking

English. Whenever he did slip a couple words of Russian in,

it must have been unintelligible.

Mr. Genzman. There is a comment between slash marks on

this page which states, "The same person who phoned a day or

so ago and spoke in broken Russian".

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes.

Mr. Genzman. Are you now saying that you believe that

this person spoke in English and not in Russian?

Mr. Tarasoff. I believe he spoke in English.

Mr. Genzman. Based on this possible discrepancy, do you

have any feeling as to whether this document is authentic as

opposed to being a forgery or an amended version of the

original document?

Mr. Tarasoff. I cannot conceive of this document being

a forgery. I have an idea in the back of my head that it was :

much stronger. There is the whole thing, the spacing, I

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cannot say that it was longer than it is now.

Mr. Genzman. Do you recall this conversation as includ-

ing more substance than is in this document which you have

before you, labeled "Pl"?

Let me rephrase that. Do you recall items in the con-

versation ---

Mr. Tarasoff. Items?

Mr. Genzman. Items, topics, in the conversation inde-

pendently of this document which you do not see in this

document.

Mr. Tarasoff. Unfortunately I do not. I am not certain:

Mr. Genzman. Do you have any independent recollection

of Oswald having mentioned his financial situation during

this conversation?

Mr. Tarasoff. No, I do not have any recollection of

that. The main idea was to get the name of the person for-

warded as soon as possible.

Mr. Genzman. At the beginning of this conversation there

appears "In at" and "168" which is crossed out. Do you see

that, Mr. Tarasoff, the number 151?

Mr. Tarasoff. I put a question mark at the time.

Mr. Genzman. Can you tell us what that would mean?

Mr. Tarasoff. The question mark means that I did not

get the time when the call came through.

Mr. Genzman. Do you have any explanation for that feature?

(

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Mr. Tarasoff. No.

Mr. Genzman. Can you also tell us what the words "pre-

viously transcribed" mean?

Mr. Tarasoff. "Previously transcribed" means, for in-

stance, I went to the embassy first and the embassy number

was 605055. Now this number 501264 belonged to the film's

office. So consequently if that particular call went out of

the main building to the film's office and it had been tran-

scribed before, that is exactly what I would do, put down

"previously transcribed". So there was no question of doing

it twice.

Mr: Genzman. Mr. Tarasoff, you mentioned earlier that

this transcription has the words "Lee Oswald". Were you

able to identify the speaker in an earlier conversation

based on this conversation? I would like to refer you back

to the document labeled "P2".

I believe you said earlier that the conversation contained

on "P2" did not contain any identifying information.

Mr. Tarasoff. It was just a repeat job at first.

Mr. Genzman. Were you able to identify the individual

speaking on "P2" by means of this conversation on "Pl"?

Mr. Tarasoff. "151. The same person who phoned a day

or so ago and spoke in broken Russian". That is the one right

here.

Mr. Genzman. You are saying from this conversation you

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identified the speaker as Lee Oswald? Did you also make the

inference that the speaker of the conversation at page "P2"

was also Lee Oswald?

Mr. Tarasoff. No, because -- this is the 28th of Sep-

tember -- it is out of my hand. But the next one is October

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Mr. Genzman. Let me rephrase the question. The October

Ist conversation contains the name Lee Oswald, does it not?

Mr. Tarasoff. It does.

Mr. Genzman. The September 28 conversation does not

contain a name?

Mr. Tarasoff. It does not contain the name. That is

probably why they wanted to know the name.

Mr. Genzman. So, at the time you received the September

28 conversation you could not make any identity of the speaker?

Mr. Tarasoff. No.

Mr. Genzman. After you saw the October Ist conversation;

which contained the name Lee Oswald, did you then make the

inference that the speaker in the September 28 conversation

was Lee Oswald, the same speaker who spoke on October Ist?

Mr. Tarasoff. I guess he called up and just previous

to that called the embassy and identified himself.. I think

it says - I was not sure whether this particular number was

a military attaché'

or anyway it is one of the Soviet's.

Mr. Genzman. Mr. Tarasoff, I am asking whether you at

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any time were able to identify the speaker in the September

28 conversation?

Mr. Tarasoff. No.

Mr. Genzman. Did you ever make the inference that the

speakers on September 28 and October Ist were one and the

same person?

Mr. Tarasoff.

I sure did, right here, under item 151,

under "Pl".

Mr. Genzman. Thank you.

Mr. Fithian. Mr. Tarasoff, I did not follow you exactly

where you made that indication.

Mr. Tarasoff. It is on "PI" and starts at 151 and then

I have slash marks, "The same person who phoned a day or so

ago and spoke in broken Russian". That particular sentence

refers to the "P2".

Mr. Genzman. Are you saying then that you were able to

make the connection between the two speakers based on your

recollection of the voice from the September 28 transcript?

Mr. Tarasoff. Exactly.

Mr. Genzman. Would you also state whether the language

on "PI", the October Ist conversation, I quote "I was at your

place last Saturday and spoke to the consul", did that

language also contribute to your inference that the September

28 speaker was the same as the October Ist speaker, namely

Lee Oswald?

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Mr. Tarasoff. Yes.

Mr. Genzman. Mr. Tarasoff, do you recollect any other

conversation or any other details about Lee Harvey Oswald's

calls?

Mr. Tarasoff. Unfortunately I do not recollect any more

conversations.

Mr. Genzman. Can you say whether you remember any

other calls by Oswald or any other details which are not

reflected in these documents, the three we have shown you?

Mr. Tarasoff. To be frank I do not remember any other.

Mr. Genzman. Mr. Tarasoff, I would like to ask you a

few more questions concerning voice comparison. Did you as

a routine procedure identify the voices of the participants

in the conversation if you could?

Mr. Tarasoff. Would you repeat that?

Mr. Genzman. Did you identify the voices of these people

speaking if you were able to do so? Would you identify them

on the transcript?

MI. Tarasoff.

I certainly would because some of them,

it was not difficult, you could not mistake them for anybody

else.

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Mr. Genzman. As part of this procedure, did you ever

make use of identification tapes and comparisons between

tapes?

Mr. Tarasoff. No. They wondered whether I could preserve

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the voices, take the voice samples, cut out the section of

the tape.

Mr. Genman. Were you able to identify any of the people

with whom Oswald spoke during this conversation?

Mr. Tarasoff. Here, for instance, "Pl", the first, a

Obyed Kov was a guard at the gate.

Usually they changed

every eight hours.

The first call comes through him. Con-

sequently, Lee Oswald was talking to Obyed; Kov. He said that

he does not remember the name of the consul who was speaking

to him and yet it was probably Kostikor. It says, "My name is

Oswald".

Mr. Genzman. Were you at any time asked prior to the

assassination of President Kennedy whether you could identify

any of the people who spoke to Oswald?

Mr. Tarasoff. Would you repeat that, please?

Mr. Genzman. Did anyone ever ask you to make any identi

fication of the people who spoke with Oswald at any time

before the assassination of President Kennedy?

Mr. Tarasoff. You mean from our field office?

Mr. Genzman. Yes.

Mr. Tarasoff. No. No one approached us.

Mr. Genzman. Did anyone ask you after the assassination

to make any identification of the speakers in these transcripts?

Mr. Tarasoff. Again I would say no, not that I can re-

collect.

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Mr. Genzman. Did anyone ever ask you to compare tapes

to try to identify

any of the speakers in any of the conver-

sations?

Mr. Tarasoff. No.

Sometimes those tapes would be erased.

Mr. Genzman. Did Ann Goodpaster ever contact you regard-

ing the surveillance operation on Oswald?

Mr. Tarasoff. No.

Mr. Genzman. Do you happen to know Ann Goodpastor's

function in Mexico City?

Mr. Tarasoff. She was a pretty important person as far

as I can judge because she was with the chief of the station

and they kind of favored her quite a bit.":

Mr. Genzman. Would you say she worked closely with the

chief of the station?

Mx. Tarasoff. I would say so because -- well, she was

one who was getting one of the carbon copies. Another one

went to Rose -- I do not remember her family name.

Mr. Genzman. Are you saying then that Anne Goodpastor®

was involved in the telephone surveillance operation in :

Mexico City?

Mr. Tarasoff. Not the telephone surveillance. She was

busy with something else but, anyway, she kept the records.

Mr. Genzman. You are saying that she did receive one

of the carbon copies of your transcription?

Mr. Tarasoff. Yes, when I was working inside the

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embassy on TDY I had to give one copy to her, one to Rose

and I think one went someplace else, the original went to

the chief.

Mr. Genzman. Do you know whether AnneGoodpastor had

any knowledge of the photo surveillance operations in Mexico

City?

Mr. Tarasoff. I believe she did.

Mr. Genzman. Did she work with the surveillance opera-

tion directly, to the best of your knowledge?

Mr. Tarasoff. Let me digress a bit. As I remember,

there was a sort of flurry between all the employees at the

station. What was happening, they were trying to recruit

one of the defectors.

They tested everything, walkie-talkies and stuff like

this. One day the place was practically empty. I thought,

"What happened?" I did not know.

When I came back a few hours later, they did return with!

such a dejected air that I did not know what the heck happened.

Then it was explained by somebody that said that this opera-

tion fell right through on its face.

Naturally I know AnneGoodpaster" felt badly about it and

the chief and everybody else was concerned.

Mr. Genzman. Mr. Tarasoff, referring you back to the

document labeled "Pl", you stated earlier you were able to

determine that Lee Oswald spoke in this conversation and that

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he, in fact, identified himself during this conversation?

Mr. Tarasoff. That is right.

Mr. Genzman. Did you at any time or in any manner indi-

cate to any of your contacts in Mexico City, which other

conversations were those of Oswald besides "Pl"?

Mr. Tarasoff. No. I passed the whole shebang to the

contact, in fact, we had to call'a special meeting. In other

words, we got the name and immediately had to work on this

one. I sent the whole thing back.

I thought okay, if they got the tape, everybody should

be able to listen to it because it is in English. Whatever

broken Russian he spoke was terrible.

Mr. German. In characterizing your contact with the

Lee Harvey Oswald case would you say that any of your contact

with the case was out of the ordinary, aside from the request

to your subsequently transcribing the conversation on "Pl"?

Mr. Tarasoff. Would you repeat that, please?

Mr. Genzman. Certainly. We have been discussing docu-

ments allegedly dealing with conversations which Lee Harvey

Oswald had with the Soviet Embassy. Would you characterize

your handling of these conversations as in any way out of the

ordinary other than your previous statement that you received

an urgent request to do one of the transcriptions?

Mr. Tarasoff. Well, the two previous ones were just in

the ordinary course. We had a suspicion that Lee Oswald

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could have been a defector, according to this. To me it was

a routine thing to do, to type up all this transcription and

send it back to the station. Then came the request to see

if I could get the name the next day.

So, when I got this particular name, which I underlined

to bring their particular attention to it, I sent it back

to the station with the reel. They would like to listen too.

They had all the facilities at the station for doing so.

Mr. Genzman. Other than your contact with members of

this committee were you ever at any time contacted by any

government agency, the CIA, the FBI, the Warren Commission,

or any other agency to explain your connection with the sur-

veillance operation against Lee Harvey Oswald in Mexico City?

Mr. Tarasoff. Not a word from anyone.

Mr. Genzman. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions at this time.

Mr. Fithian. Mr. Sawyer?

Mr. Sawyer. No questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Fithian. Do I understand that this completes the

entire questioning of the witness by counsel?

Mr. Genzman. Mr. Chairman, we will have several more

questions after either you or any of the other Congressmen

have concluded with their questions, if you have any.

Mr. Fithian. I have no questions on this segment of the :

witness' testimony.

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Mr. Genzman. Mr. Tarasoff, do you have any independent

recollection of any other conversations involving Lee Harvey

Oswald which you dealt with other than the three documents

we have been discussing today?.

Mr. Tarasoff. If there were any conversations outside

of this, I do not recollect.

Mr. Genzman. Do you have any recollection of any other

subject matter which Oswald discussed in any conversation

other than the ---

Mr. Tarasoff. Personally, no.

Mr. Genzman. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.

Mr. Sawyer. You answered as to whether you had any.

recollection of any other subjects that were discussed. You

said, "Personally, no". Is there any significance to the

word "personally"? Do you have information on it some other

way?

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Mr. Tarasoff.

Well, my wife thinks that there was another

conversation, but I do not recollect it.

Mr. Sawyer. Did she say what she thought it was about?

Mr. Tarasoff, Pardon me?

Mr. Sawyer. Did she say what she thought the other con-

versation was about?

Mr. Tarasoff. She said there must have been another one,

a much longer one than this..

Mr. Sawyer. That is all I have. Thank you.

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Mr. Preyer.

Thank you very much.

We appreciate your

being here.

We will take a five minute recess at this time.

(Whereupon, the subcommittee adjourned at 5:00 p.m.)

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