MEETING WITH DR. MANUEL "MANOLO" RAY.
Originator: CIA
From: JAMES A. NOEL
To: MEMO OF CONVERSATION
Document date: 2000-01-01 00:00:00
Document type: PAPER - TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

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Released under the John F. Kennedy

Assassination Records Collection Act of

1992(44 USC 2107 Notel. Case#:Nv

65997 Date: 10-29-2021

SECRET

file

? jeruary 196.

MINORANDU: OF CONVERSATION

SUBJECT

l'eeting with Dr. Nsauel "Manolo" IlY

1.

Prior to derarting fron washington on 1 - tary 1901. 1 t

notructed by Tracy Barnes to contact Dr. Far 1a plani

instructed to assure RAY:

A. That "we" perschally hold him in his regard as?

that while "we" ard not backing say indiridual in

group in the political sense. ve

with his program and his alms.

That "we" ars prepared to render lie watever material

assistance he neads and can fessilly ue.

That sidle

the mechanism of the Frente would bare to be uast for

the delivery of such materials, since bodher mercazism

for this purpose prosently exists.

rig i1d not mean

that Dr. RAY need be beholden to isa Frente.

c.

That wa understood ho is planning to retura to dice.

We feel that this would be a wise sate, sad

consenuently urge him to do so.

is this connection

we are preparod to offar him a commiestor ani cater

similar assistance so that he cas nsintsin contsit

with his people.

2. I had planned

to see fiX on his return fra Faerto R10s =

the afternocn of 3 January 1961,

but the imminency of a treas of

diplomatic relationg batween the United States and Cuba connelled

se to return to Havana on the morning of 3 - aspery 1051.

Consequently, my nesting with RAY was postaoal until last arening

when an appointment was nade through WISS.N033 to neet wint his

at the lattor's apartment.

Our mesting lasted approximately three hows - roughly roar ? to 10 p.m.

wa covered a wide range

of subjects, the Minights of bis I

shall try to cover in succeeding paragrachs.

SECRET

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4.

5.

HIS CRIP TO SAN JUAN.

Ho cede only rassing referonces to his tris

Co fuorto Rico, He rentloned that ho had a very fine talk withe

Gov. PUNOz Marin for whoa he extrossod preat admiration. Several

"ines during the ovening's session he indicated that ho would 11be

co see the futuro Cuba Potiou the path of Puerto Rico and hest

Gerneny In Ita econonto devolo cent.

He also said that he had

conterred vich ox-Prosident of Costa Rica,

Dr. Jose FiGURAS, than

he, round very proccusted with rasmot to future devoloments

Lut in Arerica; the InMuonco which CiS:RO atill exerts on the

ninds of groat numbers of psonlo. RaY comented that unile alness all

of tho government now see CASTRe

for what he is. a cynteal dictasce.

there are many. many people who still vlew him as a poruler leader

who lu trying to help his people. Much nore in the propazanda lie

1s necessary he said to presont CAsTRi to the people in a truer lift.

In this connection he said that the RP hores within the next three

woeks or so to acquire broadeastine facilitiea in Costa Rica,

Venezuela and perhaps aequiro a ship from which propaganda coud

be diaseminated.

ATTITUDE TOARD THE. FREITE.

RAY fools that the Frento has little

to offer. the people of Cuba for he future.

For example, he said,

there is great discontent in the Cuban Rebel Army which could he

exploited if these dissident elenents could have some

assurance itss

thay were laying down their lives for s worthwhile cause.

RAY.

does not feel that the acclon and conposition of the FRD Inspires

auch confidence.

He did not mention any names recifically anong

the FRD: which would represant a "return to the past" but he 11d

say that one of the Executive Hagbers (head of a department, I

believe is how he put it) had been a big time contractor during

BATISTA's regime and that when Rut took over the Ministry of Public

orks under President URRUTIA, ho learned that this

BazA contractor

had previously presented a bill and collacted 300,000 pesos for a

pubito works project which was never undertaken,

Instond of harti, the

man jailed, RAY. said that he as Minister of Publie Horka norely

ingisted that the job be done. He cormentod that he (RAY) would

now probably "have to pay for this." I presume ho neant that this

particular person will eventually seek some type of parsonal revear.

RAY also sa'd that "one of the fiva" merbers of the FRD confided to

him that he la not happy but there is little he can do about it disgase

"he is there." RAY repeatod dosa of the vigal criticians of the ??-

"high living. " petty politics.

"everybody receiving a salary." an? te

"obvious fact" that the l.S, Goverzent 1s picking up the tab. Tris

he sald vas fine with the !RP locause it was causing disillustone?

Cubans within and vithout Caba to turn to the RP as the only hona.

Ho was juite frank in strtine that while he 19 willing to

"copierssa"

with the Frento, he did not vant the IRP to bacone identifled 1 1-

Cuban mind with the Frente:

and chus itself bac ne discredited Lasags

"association."

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S.

-3-

PROBLEMS. ME

provldeshim

2502S.

when Lold RAY that ve wore prepard to

ninterial support ant that whilo

such of this natortal

support vould have to be daliverd by the

Fronto nochantan this would

not necessarily take. hin

boholden or

place him under obligation to

the Prontos he =Ked and

sals trat tris. 1s what I say: but

chis 1s not

tho-vey It works Trinking

ta vas reforting to song incident in

the past. and not the immediate

prasant,

Isaid

that I vas sure

would nov find that this 1g

had been negotiating for

an

it

He then cold ne that

alr

dron

to a group In tho Escan

ibr

that Mr. B. hal ccee down and

thought thelr differences hed

pretty much rosalved, and Mr.

B.

had told Mr.

NEV:DO that there

had been a meting of minds.

cetora.

and with everything all set

for the drop.

venth hour (he said "three days ago?)

told that the

be ar

sticker of thè Frente, otheruise

"no arms.?

He said

• thig wäs

absolutely maccoptablo to him.

He sald he did not insist or particulurly ask that the arme be

Identified with mRp stickers, so therefore he could not see any

Justificition for insisting that the arms bear the FRO label.

He-

said that his group has done all the perational planine for the drop,

couriers have gone back and forth latween Havana and the Escambrays,

maps have bean dravn up, DZ's have been arrangod, ard now ho is

told that the equirment

nich he hat boon told was being, supplled

to his sroup must bear the label of the rival "IRD." It is obvious

that while we say that ve look uron the Frente as a non-poiltical

grouping of various orposition groups, RAY looks uron the Frente 19

the political organisation of Tony VIRGNA and I personally do not

feel sangulne that any anount of explanation will change his

thinking in this roxarl.

Hero, and elsewhere during our conversation,

I noted a certain arount of intrengigence and lack of tolerance on

•the part or RAY which does not bale vell for the future, unloss no.

car. be made to realise that his iroud and following aro not the solo

repository of virtue, honesty, compotence and good intentions.

RAY

Is an Idealist.

He dreans. of a lenocratle Cuba, free of corruption,

rüled by ten who are selflessly dedicited to the promotion of the

ganeral velfaro.

When I said to RAY that Tony TARUNA and other

joaders of the ID would say that they too stand for these things, he

again smilod and sald:. The curlous thing is thut thay do not come.

out and say une ulvocally that they stand for these things.

Instead they say vo aro Cutang - vo are not Enplishren, we aro not

Amaricans, vo aro not Germans - va, are Cubans." What they rean to say,

he went on. ly that salfishnass, soe corruption. et cetera, is fart

of the Cuban waie up and that this boing the case lt is unrealistic

and impractical to think that Cusans can aspire to a detocracy

based on integrity and fiscal honesty such as we have in the United

States, or England, or other more advinced denocrrules of Hestern

Europe.

He fools thai the peocle of Cuba yearn for such a denocracy

and they do not sea the chance of fulfillment in the composition or

the Frente.

Theroforo he wishes to esboly in the MRP those ren wrose

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7:.

rerutations un clean - ha lore roforring to Fellay Pasos.

a3 An

aratpie - nas thus told one to the Cubras in Cuba a hope of butter

days to come - and to provido then a cause for which to fight.

vitout a vill to fight on the part of tha poorlo of Cuba, he suld,

CASTRO wi?! novor be overchrown.

Tha will to fight loes not exist

on tho sonlo chat is needod to achlara guccoss.

Tro Franto 19

completoly incapable of providing the inspiration from which such

a will can stem.

Consequentaly, It is ur to the MAP to ingrire the

confidonce of the roople by brining tomthor those persons and eleronts

whom the people trust and who are not luentifled with tho corrupt

rast. The people of Cübia, ho said, cannot stand another liganioltment.

Their hopes must not be raised again, only to suffor another batrayal.

PROVISIONAL, GUVERNMENT. I brought un the subjoct of a provisional

governient, a government in exile.

but crefacod my rerarks by saying

that I was only oxpressing my porsonal vlous.

I said:

"Don't you

feel that the problem of whose sticker soos on the air drops, and vro

sets crodit for

this or that, would be resolred if an desembly of

Opposition Groups vero to meet and to democratically alect a proviaional

govarnient, composed

of honost,

competent men of unimpeachable rocord.

which would represont all the divorse oppoultion groups and which would

raise tho. hopes and provide the will to righo to the Cubans la Cuba

who are uncortain and confusert with respoct to the future?"

Ho said he was opposed to a coalltion roveraront nade un of representatives

of various political parties ay a previatonal government because Fo

was sure such a government would not be ablo to provido the united,

honesy, non-partisan type of leadorship which will bo required following

the fall of CaStRO.

He solud preter a government of "integration"

rather then a government

of "coalition."

By that he said he meant

that the best quallfied men would be asied to serve their country in

an apolitical capacity.

That these men would be

measured by their

corpetence, reputation, etc., and little or no concern

should be given as to their political artillations.

composed of such men would aulckly win the respect of the Cubon porulation;

cheat men could get on with the job of reconstructing the country.

completely subordinating partisan political considorutions, since

such man would not be politically ambitious.

a governant

composed of such outstunding ten would win the confidence

o? fora!gn

countrios which would be more digiosed to grant loang which will be an

urgent necessity from the very start..

So far as the rovernment itsolf

concorned, it weilld be arolitical.

The verious political partlas

and their loulers would be free to precare for the coning eleutlong -

whether they be in 6, 12 or 18 mont'rs.

at which time the Cuban people

in free aleetions could lecide which po'itten! party it wantad to

rovern the country.

I asked RAY who would salect these ren. And at thai junctura of tha

struggle against CASTRO would a provisionni covernment appear.

a little fuazy - probably Intentionally - on shis point.

le clearly

indieated that some work had already been seconalished on tho easter

S009

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of ariose ing livaly condidates.

He salt more vould be long in

cho lodero of the Fro and chor Cuban olarents would be consul cad.

he indicaund that this was the slan

that

ponore, acro cont vould

ba sought -

and chat all prospa vould bo free to sugrant candidatos.

Hovover, ho

Colt it vas quite fossible

for

exrople.

that the FRo

could sugrost candidates e

culd not

1ct

standard

chae would be sot nd would have tc

ba

Anctat

was not cloar

as. to to vould exerciso this pover

guther that ho felt

that the imp whilch orresents or vil

BAnt:

(In his nind) the

perty which commands the frontest rosnect wiühin the country, would

exercise this prerogative.

AS 1 say.

ho was a little fuszy on this

point ho bey not how wisted to tip hts hari. or ho may havo folt that

le vãs a littlo pronature for him to discuss this mattor at greater

longto.

CONSTITUTION 03. 2240.

I said to Ray, "y uninraand you do not want

to retain

tho Constitution of 19/0." He ailed at this." He sald

this question has been rut to hi- bufora. Often bolliparently.

lovever,

he said, each tiro that ho has explained shy ho

feels that

the Constitution must bo rebritten he has ended un convincing the

person 1n qunation that cortain featuras of the Constitution of 1940

aro eithor unvorkable: und? ocratie or obra:sta.

He said few of the

people to est worked up over the Constitution have ever read the

Consticution and there oro do not kios what they are talling ibout.

He said the Constitution 1s not 1!ks the Aunrican Constitution

which sots out its precepts in general terms and covers basie

questions of government.

Tra Cuban constitution 1a a long. rambling

document that ofton poes into minuto detalla of rules and reruintions

slch have no place: in the basle lau of tre lani.

first, he gald. he

wanted

to make it absolutely clear that he "loras" those frovisions

of the Conscitution which guarantee Indivilual libertles, privato

property..etc..

However, there are other carts o? tha Constitution

rich aro incracticablo.

With rosrect, to Arrarian Reform, ho pointed

out, the Constitution requiras todiate payrent in cash. He said

In no country of the world has an agrarian propran bain carried out

with lorediate cash payments.

"Not only does the rovernment not have the

Ioney to carry out such a propras, but if it iid it would result in

•inflasion and a serious dislocation of the accnomy.... The electoral

Inug. to sald, ara very complex. and those relating to apportionmont

of the Congress con iniy result in corruption. I rorarked:

"YoH

Dean they

are written in such a way that they invite corruption?

ne sali:

More

than that, they force corrustion." Ho said under the

present sat-up

one has to elthor be a slilionaire or bo able to borrow

200.000 pesos (and thus accort cor-lients) in order to ba elected to

He sald he would like to see this rart of tho Constitution

vitian along the American 11n08. Also, he sald the laus relating to

the raisine of revenue ana archale.

said chat in order to ac juirs

manoy for a glven prostan. A spocifle tar rust be applied designed to

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9.

10.

to provido that noney

paid that what lo nooded are fever terra,

but more reneral

taxos wrich vill provide tha rovenue needed vithout

tho necoastity.

or a hodes-rodre of tax billa:

Ho sald coat felipo

-Pazoo. Rufo Lores derant:

and other extortonced. finance pen erroo

Chat chio pert

the Constitution must bo rovised. I said:

was a possiblity, but that it vou a be fore practicable to vrite af

vorkablo Conatitution providing all the

quarantans of a denocracy

but omiting a lot of tho Lerolorant and unvorkable featuros of the

current one.

HIS PERSONAL PEANS: I said I understood that he way plamine to noturn

to Cuba and aared if thia vas correct.

He said he and thors of hio

grcup plan to return at the appropriate time but first he vanted to be

sure that he had natted down cortaln political and support matters here.

He sald ho was hopeful that tho "political" considerations - which he

Indicated (ulthout clurification) - vere going quite satisfactorily

would be satisfactorily concluded INITIMeek on so. WISSINGS

agked

"Do you hean after 20 january?"

Rit smiled but nade no reply.

He sald that te had hoped that he had settlod the matter of the logistical

support when he talked to Mr. Blast, but it now appears that it 18

not settled and that they may have to return to Cuba without thia

support.

He said ho was leaving for Ney York on 9 January and would

÷3;

romain there until Saturday. 15 january.

lie sald he could be reuched

through Raul CHIBAs. I told him that I thought he should return, as

soon an he could, and that we vee crapared to assiat him In every vay

possible, Including providing him with a concunicator. He said we had

already trainod a comunicator for his group who had been Infiltrated

into suba and no wonderod viuro that man was at the present time -

whother in llavana or the hills.

Heither I. nor HIESINGER could enliphten

him on this point, except to say that he was safaly in Cuba.

During the entire intorrlow. ulth ne exception, RAY das his usual

quiet.

soft-spoken self.

However, ha did show erotion when he aster me

if I thought anacho-vas trjing to sabotage hia efforts to surply the

resistance groups in Cuba.

For example, he first brought up. ant 1t

was tost obvious that it is a mattor of groat concern to him.

the

matter of the plans, maps, etc., for the VRP action against she Isle of

Pines: Ho said a carefully coordinated plan hal beenlaid on.

That

BARUIN discussed it with "lrsy."

That BIRJIN asked "Jinny" If the

map. and

other pacers could be relivered In Cuba within 45 tours.

"Jimmy asgured BAPQIN that they could and BIR).IN handed them over.

RAY sald that BaRlIN erred in doine this as they had there own

facilities for transmitting

the fapors.

The papers neter arrived at

their dastination, nor have they evar been heard froe again. As a

consequence, a plin of great iportaion had to ba abardened, and ar

Irreplacoablo opfortunity lost. He was extremely azitated uten he

talked of this natter and although HISSINGER and I attempted to

assure hin that te was not being saboteged and that there vera no

"comunista" tryine to frustrate tis ac:lulties, he nonetheless 1s

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workod up on the isnue and uill not be cintont until ho has a

satlafactory explanation.

Nov, ho says, ho la confr ntos sith. the

delay In the air drop to the peoplo in the Saca-bruys.

o you think

senoone wants thoss ren uipod out for some roason of other and

that thie to uny these acceptablo conlitions are placst at the last

He was acsured nothine could bo farther fron the truth, but

still this le a concrate example of his bollef that he ras not recelved

the support that he hus been load to believe he uill rocairo:

RP IRTELIAIGENOS ORGANIZATION.

No discussed briefly the HiP Latel

proup being organized under MiSSINGER' a gullance.

He politad out that

little propress had been made due to the fact that BaaTi - RAY'a

destrneo for tho Job - had so many other responalbilities that ha

could not sive this mattar his undliided attention.

pAt laughed

and said that BiR VIN has been riven no other regionalbilitios, but

chat he has sought out other responsibilities on hla oun shich an

He promised to think about this and vas arreesolo to

assigning a

tino taking. "it sleeve" type of operator to vort irth. iRESINGER

on tho nuts and bolts.

The name of lilcolay "riDilA Has sugrestod

by the undersignod (in prior consultation with WESTiGER) as a rorson...

of considerable intelligence and drive and endowed with a willingness

to carry out orders.

Nicolas, win 1g a brother of one of RAY'&

closest men, Ignacio !'ElDOZA, was acceptible to RAY end he asked

WISSINGER if he could ascortain Nicolag'. pregent utereabouts so

that he could be propositioned on the subject.

The meeting broke up after ton o' cluck.: It yes corital shroughout

and I feel cleared the air a little altiough 1t bottled so matters of

consequence.

I told RAY I was going to Hashington on Yonday and,:

after consultatlons, might wish so see h'n ageln.. He said be vould

walcome another get-together and that I could reach his chrough

CHIBAS during the current veek.

Inroad: 1001/03

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