Originator: HSCA
From: PICCOLO, JOSEPH
Document date: 08/11/1978
Document type: SUMMARY

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180-10142-10353

2022 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF, 1974C

HSCA INTERVIEW OF JOSEPH PICCOLO, JR., I1 AUGUST 1978:

On 11 August 1978 at 2:00 P.M. Dan Hardway and Charles Berk of the

House Select Conmittee on Assassinations conducted a two hour interview

with Joseph Piccolo, JI. Mr. Piccolo, age 43, is presently an employee

of the CIA working as an operations officer in the Deputy Directorate of

Operations. He joined the CIA in 1957 and, with the exception of one year

of duty with the Air Force, has continued until the present time in his

employment with the Central Intelligence Agency.

Prior to the beginning of the interview Mr. Piccolo was asked to read

the CIA's omnibus release letter of 23 March 1978. After his examination

of the letter, Mr. Piccolo indicated that he fully understood the letter's "

meaning. Mr. Berk then explained to Mr. Piccolo the mandate and purposes

of the Select Committee.

Mr. Piccolo stated that at the time of President Kennedy's assassination

he was a support assistance analyst in the DDO. His responsibilities

included maintenance of records, running of traces, and Spanish language

analysis for purposes of operational support. Subsequent to this position

Mr. Piccolo undertook training during the spring of 1964 to become an

operations officer. Mr. Piccolo further stated that his professional

areas of interest were mainly concerned with Latin America. He also in-

dicated that he served in theCIA's Mexico City Station from December

1957 to January 1960 and from August 1965 to January 1968.

It was further

ascertained that Mr. Piccolo was involved in some Agency operations

directed against Cuba during the time periods 1962 to January 1968,

January 1969 to January 1970, and a three month period during 1975.

Mr. Piccolo was asked if he was familiar with the cryptonym AMMUG/1.

He responded affirmatively and stated that A/1 was thefirst Cuban Intel-

ligence Service (CUIS)

defector from the then newly formed DGI, the CIA's

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Piccolo Interview, Page 2.

Cuban counterpart for external security and counter-intelligence operations.

Mr. Piccolo stated that he did not participate in the initial handling

and debriefing of A/1 but became involved in this case during the summer of

1964 when he first met A/1. At that time, Mr. Piccolo was assigned to

"handhold" A/l; i.e., to ensure that A/l was properly accomodated and

escorted and to provide companionship for A/l.

Mr. Piccolo recalled that A/1 had been debriefed In Canada after his

defection.

He stated that the objectives of the initial debriefings would

have been to gain biographic data on persons associated with the Cuban

Intelligence Service and information on persons who might collaborate

with the CIA. He indicated that he ceased contact with A/1 prior to 1966

and the last information he had was that A/I was residing in Miami, J

Florida and was adjusting well to life in this country.

As for the filing of the debriefing reports, Mr. Piccolo said the

filing procedure would habe been dictated by the manner in which the case

was handled; i.e., by subject or cryptonym or personality. He did state

that debriefing reports would habe initially been held in the office

handling the case. These repors would hale been "held tight" to allow

time for operations to be developed while security risks he at a minimum.

However

Then Mr. Piccolo said he did know where such debriefing reports would now

be located.

Mr. Piccolo later became responsible for debriefing A/1. Mr. Piccolo

was not able to recall the exact time period during which he debriefed

which continued for

A/1 Me approximately a four to six month period. Mr. Piccolo stated that

[Harold swenson, Barney Hidalgo and Dan Flores also debriefei M1.

Mr. Piccolo was queried as to the responsibilities of WH/SAS/CI, the

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Piccolo Interview, Page 3.

CIA component responsible for the A/1 case. He indicated that this component

whose chief wa Harold Suenson worked against the cuts. He further indi-

cated that WH/SAS/CI, to carry out its function, probably ran double agent

operations.

Mr. Piccolo was next queried whether he recalled a CIA component

referred to as the "domestic exploitation section". Mr. Piccolo stated

that this terminology was not familiar to him but that domestic exploitation

would most likely have been located in a positive intelligence section of

the Agency such as the Domestic Contacts Division. He did state, however, •

that recruitment or contact of persons in this country for utilization in

foreign operations would have been the responsibility of every operations

officer. He doubted that the Western Hemisphere Division would have run

such an office but that operational recruitment would hale been handled

as part of a specific project or program.

Mr. Piccolo was queried whether A/1 providied any information to the

CIA on Lee Harvey Oswald and his possible contacts with the DGI. He

responded that he recalls no A/1 debriefing reports providing such infor-

mation nor did A/l provide such information to him. Mr. Piccolo further

declared that issrs. Swenson, Hidalgo, and Flores never indicated to him

that A/l had ever provided any information on Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. Piccolo was next queried as to the meaning of the term "Special

Intelligence." He indicated that the term usually applies to the inter-

ception of cormunications, e.g., signal intelligence which would include

radio waves and radar but would not have included electronic surveillance.

Mr. Piccolo further stated that special intelligence would hape been

handled by "Division D", a

special unit segregated from other agency

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Piccolo Interview, Page 4.

components.

Mr. Piccolo was next asked if he had ever seen any photographs of Lee

Harvey Oswald resulting from the photographic surveillance operations con-

conducted by the CIA

Mexico City Station. He responded in the affimative

stating that he had seen two photographs what the person who showed opht gu,

ys, Piccol-

to him said were taken in Mexico City. Me. said that the person, whose

identity he was unable to recall, had shown him the pictures saying:

(paraphrase)

"These

are the pictures of Oswald that we got in Mexico."

He stated that he was led to understand that these two pictures had been

taken of Lee Harvey Oswald either entering or leaving the Cuban Embassy/

Consulate in Mexico City. The first picture was a 3/4 full shot of

Oswald exposing his left profile as Oswald looked downward. The second

photograph which Mr. Piccolo recollected seeing was a back of the head

view of Oswald. At this point in the interview Mr. Piccolo was shown

CE 237, the famous photograph of the Mexico Mystery Man. All printed

identification bordering the photograph was covered prior to Mr. Piccolo's

examination. Mr. Piccolo was then asked who the man in CE. 237 was. Mr.

Piccolo responded that he did not. know but that the person was not. Oswald.

Mr. Piccolo was asked if this was one of the photographs he had seen and

he responded in the nagative. Mr. Piccolo was next shown a full frontal

photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald. This photograph also had all printed

material bordering its surface covered. When asked who the person in

the photograph was, after a moment's pause, Mr. Piccolo correctly identified

the photograph as onRof Lee Harvey Oswald. Mr. Piccolo stated that he

could not recall where or when he had seen the surveillance photographs

Of Lee Harvey Oswald but was certain of their presentation to him as such.

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Piccolo Interview, Page 5.

hisknowlerge concerning

Mr. Piccolo was questioned about what he knew about the finding of

the surveillance photographs of Oswald. He stated that he did not have

first hand knowledge of that but that it was the type of thing, a coup,

that would have traveled through the Agency "grapevine". Mr. Piccolo

stated that he had heard stories about a surveillance photograph of Oswald

being found both in Mexico City and at CIA Headquarters in Langley.

said that Ann Goodpasture may have been the person who found

a photograph

of Oswald in Mexico City. He stated that he has heard several times that

Charlotte Bustos) found a photograph of Oswald at CIA Headguarters He

is not certain pia he to are heard tin lots aton tea.

he was certain that he had heard it prior to the last time that he heard

hearing it from

He stated that that last time he heard the story was during a fiessure.

discussion with a man with whom he shares an office.

He stated that

this man,

2. Dan Niescuir,

had worked on the Oswald case during an

"in house" investigation a couple of years ago. He said that they were

talking about the case because of the HSCA's release of several photographs

to the press with a request that anyone able to identify those photos

contact the Committee. Mr. Piccolo stated that during the course of

this discussion r. Niescuir stated that [charlotte Bustos) "the gal at

the Mexico desk", had found the surveillance photographs of Oswald. Mr.

piccolo stated that he assumed that Mr. Niesciur had becone aware of

(Ms. Bustos"

coup through his research into the Oswald case.

Finally, Mr. Piccolo speculated that any photographs of an American

from Mexico City surveillance operations would have been sent to Headquarters

and that he presumed someone would have found the photo of Oswald in a

file made up of these photos.

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Piccolo Interview, Page 6.

Mr. Piccolo was next asked whether he is acquainted with the following

people:

1) George Witner-no.

2) Douglas Gupton-no.

3) David Phillips-yes.

4) E. Howard Hunt-yes, but not well.

5) Maurice Bishop-no.

6) Ross Crozier-no.

7) Antonio Veciana-no.

8) Stanley watson-yes.

9) Clare Boonstra-yes.

10) Silvia Duran-no recollection.

11) Manuel Calvillo-no.

12) Ann Goodpasture-yes.

13 LIRING/3-yes, but can recall nothing.

14)! Win Scott-yes; Mr. Piccolo was queried whether Mr. Scott maintained

a personal safe in Mexico City while he was Chief of Station toe. Mr.

Piccolo responded that restricted materials would have been kept in a

safe in Mr. Scott's office. Mr. Piccolo defined restricted materials as

being very sensitive; i.e., not finding its way into the routine files

and indexes.

Mr. Piccolo stated that he does not know who would have

had access to the safe other than Mr. Scott and, further, he has no idea

about what happened to it when Mr. Scott retired.

15) (EITAML/9 in true name-no.

16) LITAMI/9-Mr. Piccolo responded that we (meaning interviewers) knew

who that was.

He was asked how he knew that we knew. He stated that we

haw-readthefies.He was asked ho wahesk-

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Piccolo Interview, Page 7.

had read the files. He was asked how he knew that we had read the files.

He stated that some of the cable traffic passed across his desk.

Mr. Piccolo was next asked if he could identify the function of the

CIA component known as CI/SIG. He responded that it was his belief that

probably

CI/SIG/dealt with ciphers because the designation seemed to imply that it

was a Special Intelligence Group or a Signal Intelligence Group.

At this point in the interview Mr. Piccolo was asked to examine a

5 May 1964 CIA debriefing report of A/1 reporting A/l's knowledge of

Oswald's possible contacts with the DGI. Mr. Piccolo stated that he

does not recall ever seeing this report or the information contained in

it.

He had no recollection of Rogelio Rodriguez, Luisa Calderon, and his

recollection of Manuel Vega was poor. Mr. Piccolo was next asked to

examine a 7 May 1964 CLA meerandm prepared or arold swenson which

elaborates on A/I's knowledge of Oswald and the JFK assassination. Mr.

Piccolo stated that he had never seen this memorandum and that it did not

refresh his recollection regarding Iquisa Calderon. Mr. Piccolo was then

asked if A/1 had been questioned during his polygraph session in 1964 about

his knowledge of Oswald. Mr. Piccolo stated he did not know, that he did

not see the polygraph results but does recall that two persons were

present during the polygraph session.

Mr. Piccolo was then asked if he could define a Black Tape 201. He

stated that such a file has been retired and is black taped to hideeither

an operational relationship or other sensitive matters. This file is

enveloped and sealed with black tape. He indicated that a name trace

should indicate if a file has been black taped. Moreover, he stated that

it would be a very rare occurrence for an agent file to be maintained on

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Piccolo Interview, Page 8.

a soft file basis.

Mr. Piccolo was next asked to examine CIA debriefing No. 65 of A/1

pertaining to the duties of DeI officers in the field regarding visa applicants.

Mr. Piccolo did not recall ever reviewing this report. He indicated that

the debriefing report appeared accurate. He further stated the DGI

used extensive consulate cover in its operations. Mr. Piccolo stated

that he believed Eusebio Azcue, form Cuban Consul in Mexico City, to have

been a DGI officer.

Mr. Piccolo was queried concerning his knowledge of the diagraph 2".

Specifically, he was asked what significance the notation ZR had when

placed next to the names of DGI officers Mirabal and Vega as occurs in a

30 April 1964 excerpt from a CIA debriefing report of A/1. Mr. Piccolo

stated that the zR probably stood for ZRNICK,7

project designed to identify

the clandestine Cuban intelligence network.

Mr. Piccolo next examined a 17 July 1964 CIA contact report that be

Malho., Mr. Piccolo verified his authorship of the contact report and further

statad that the cuban detecto smit/ fidentified in the report had been

a Cuban G-2 agentwho had defected in 1962 or 1963. Mr. Piccolo further

indicated that the photographs examined by A/1 and ANIP/l as reported

in the contact report, probably originated with the LIONION surveillance ]

operations.

was

Mr. Piccolo next/asked to detail his knowledge of Teresa Proenza Proenza.

He stated that she was related to the manager of Cubana Airlines in

Mexico. He further declared that he had no knowledge that Proenza had

ever been associated with the CIA but did admit that she had been of

operational interest to the Agency. He did not know if she had been a

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Piccolo Interview, Page 9.

target for recruitment by the CIA. However, MI. Piccolo declined to

discuss further Ms. Proenza's relationship with the CIA unless HSCA could

demonstrate the relevancy of the questioning.

Lastly, Mr. Piccolo was asked to examine CIA dispatch HMMW-11935,

I September 1963, regarding Luisa Calderon. Mr. Piccolo indicated that

the desicnation therein of SAS/EOB represented Cuban Task Force/

External Operations Branch. EOB, he stated operated outside of Cuba.

Furthermore, Mir. Piccolo stated that he knew the author of the

dispatch, Dave Ronis, whom he stated had retired from the CIA.

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