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JEK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM

IDENTIFICATION FORM

AGENCY INFORMATION

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Date: 09/14/94

Page: 1

AGENCY : HPSCI

RECORD

NUMBER: 135-10001-10253

RECORDS SERIES :

GENCY FILE NUMBER

CIA HAS NO OBJECTION TO

DECLASSIFICATION AND/OR

RELEASE OF CIA INFORMATION

IN THIS DOCUMENT AS SANITIZED

kp12apr99

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : ROCK

FROM :

TO :

TITLE :

DATE :

PAGES : 22

04/03/75

SUBJECTS :

TRANSCRIPT OF DEPOSITION OF FRANK STURGIS BY ROBERT B. OLSEN AND JAMES

N. ROETHE (PAGES 73 THROUGH 152 ONLY) .

DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

CLASSIFICATION : T

CURRENT STATUS

RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL FoSTOned

ATE OF LAST REVIEW : 409/14/94

OPENING CRITERIA :

COMMENTS :

2025 Release under the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Actol

1992

[R]

- ITEM IS RESTRICTED

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ORIGINA

TOP SECRET

sturgis

PRESIDENTIS COMMISSION

CI CIA ACTIV ITZES

1 of 2

kp1zape99

CIA HAS NO OBJECTION TO

DECLASSIFICATION AND/OR

RELEASE OF THIS DOCUMENT

AS SAN:TIZED

8 Ang.

94

(ef 73-81, 89-85,

41, 148-152)

Thursday, April 3, 1975

Washingion, D. C.

WARD & PAUL

Verba

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volant.

wards flu-

derifta

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manent

words endure

WASHINGTON, D.C.

410 First Street, S.E., 20003

NW 78141

Phone

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TM

300 C20T

FAIRFAX, VIRGIN

4055 Chain Bridge Rd., 2

Phone

(703) 273-2400

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73

the attempted assassination on two occasions of Fidel Castro -

and all the top military commanders that used to come to the

Air Force Base. And remember that I had another job at the Air

Force Base

training the military police. And I also was still

Chief of Security.

MR. OLSEN: Let me ask you, are you telling us that you

participated as a Cuban Air Force officer, and Chief of Training

military police and security and intelligence operations in the

Cuban Air Force, that participated in an attempt to assassinate

Castro?

MR. STURGIS: Yes, on two occasions, plus other

military officials.

MR. OLSEN: When. did those attempts take place, during

the early part of 1959?

MR. STURGIS: Yes sir. I would. say the first attempt

-- and I set it up as an exercise,.that if I was to get the

green light - which. I did not anticipate that I would, because

there is such a thing as getting a green light -- and there is

another thing of doing something without the green light, in

other words, they do it but don't get caught -- but I did set it

up as an exercise, and I did have men on several occasions,

like I said, as a training exercise, stationed at the gate with

me there, with men stationed on the rooftops of the homes, - my

excuse was for the protection of the entourage, Fidel and the

military commanders that he had with him, he had a hometown

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bunch with him when they came to the Air Force, even with

General Bayo. And I felt that if I would get the nod to assas-

sinate them, I could do it within 30 seconds, high tail it and

everything.

MR. OLSEN: Was there something that you had drawn

up in the way of exercise as the result of the discussions with

the other Air Force officials?

MR. STURGIS: The Air Force and Army officials. This

information was given to the American Embassy. I again did

these exercises to try to get a diversion that if I would get

the nod to do the execution, that I would have some means of

diversionary tactics to draw attention away from the people who

did the execution, and that I was there with my people to prevent

it because of the security.

MR. OLSEN: Did you discuss these plans in advance with

Colonel Nichols?

MR. STURGIS: No sir. At the very - I would say about

six weeks of the revolution was over with there was a great deal

of discontent among many of the top ranking military officers.

I knew these people personally, I was in with them at those

meetings and various places, and that they discussed, we all

discussed the assassination then. And some said, well, there

are some officers that will be with the group, Fidel and Raoul

and Che, that were not really with then. So they were split

on the idea of assassinating them. So they asked my opinion.

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75

And. I told them, well, in war innocent people do get

killed. If you are going to assassinate the man, the best place

to do it is at the front gate when he approaches, and to just,

if there is seven of eight jeeps, just to give everyone in all

of the seven of eight jeeps, whether they are pro or anti -- if

you are going to go ahead and kill him, people are going to get

hurt.

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MR. OLSEN: I didn't understand whehter you answered

my question as to whether or not you had discussed in advance

with Colonel Nichols.

MR. STURGIS:. No sir, after the meeting with the

different military commanders, I

reported to Nichols the type

of discussions that were made at those meetings.

MR. OLSEN: And what was Colonel Nichol's response?

MR. STURGIS: Can we go off the record?

MR. OLSEN: If you want.

MR. STURGIS: Let's go off the record.

He told me to stand by, don't do anything, stand by,

MR: OLSEN: And did you then stand by and stall?

MR. STURGIS: Yes sir, I not only stood by, but then

I proceeded to do these exercises without asking Colonel Nichols,

I did those on my own, to prepare a special group of men to set

this up.

MR. OISEN: You prepared the axercise. Did you ever

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76

get the green light from the people in Castro's Air Force and

Army to go ahead with an attempt?

MR. STURGIS: Oh, they wanted to do it, sir. The

only thing that held them back was me, I am the only one that

held them back, because they wanted to kill him in a minute.

MR. OLSEN: And so they ere urging that this be done,

but you were holding back on it?

MR. STURGIS: Right.

MR. OLSEN: And were you holding back on it at least

in part because of the request made by Colonel Nichols that you

would hold up on it, and not do anything?

MR. STURGIS: Right.

MR. OLSEN: Was any actual attempt made now to carry

out an assassination on Premier Castro?

MR. STURGIS: The only attempt was what I was doing

in these exercises.

MR. OLSEN: So that there was some planning, but no

attempt?

MR. STURGIS: Well, let me say this. We are on a very

thin piece of string there, because I was several times making

those exercises, and I was really, because of my high position

in the military. and because of the things that I knew -- and you

must understand that I did break into the headquarters of the

Cuban Army at Columbia Barracks, and did steal documents out of

there. And I also at my own

headquarters, in my files, I did

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77

photograph some things that were in my files from the past regime

that was there, but also of other officers that were there that

I could not trust, I wanted to see what kind of reports and

things that were made. So I did photograph those. So I did

make a breakin.

MR. OLSEN: What I am trying to do, Frank, is to draw

a distinction, if I can, between some plans for, some setting up

of exercises

that would be preparatory to an attempt to assassi-

nate Premier Castro, Che Guevara and Raoul Castro and others

• that

might be with them.

I am trying to distinguish that kind of

planning and preparation for an actual attempt to carry it out.

MR. ROETHE: Were there any shots ever fired?

MR. STURGIS: No sir. As a matter of fact, in order

to avoid that, because my people wanted to do it so badly, I had

to take the ammunition away from them just to contain them.

MR.. ROETHE: Was this an exercise that was going

to be

-- was this going to be a shooting?

MR. STURGIS: Oh, yes.

MR. ROETHE: So it was not a bombing or anything of

this sort, strictly a shooting?

MR. STURGIS: A shooting.

MR. OLSEN: How soon before you left. Cuba did this

setting up of the exercises take place?

MR. STURGIS: It was

within, I would say, four to six

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MR. OLSEN: Before you left?

MR. STURGIS: No, four to six weeks after. we took

over the country, July 1, four to six weeks was the first

attempt,: That was in the last of January or the first week in

February 1959, four or five weeks.

MR. OLSEN: Did this fever about assassinating Castro,

Raoul Castro and Guevara, subside after a little while?

MR. STURGIS: Oh, no.

MR. OLSEN: Did it keep on going all the time while '

you were in Cuba?

MR. STURGIS: Yes sir. I did arrange to train the :

same men for another attempt at assassination of him in the

headquarters of the Air. Force on the second floor.

MR. ROETHE: Before you do on to that, why did you

never make an attempt the first time, why did you hold back?

MR. STURGIS: I was waiting for a nod from Nichols.

MR. ROETHE: And you never received that nod?

MR. STURGIS: I never received that.

MR. ROETHE: What got you started into a second

attempt to try a different type of assassination?

MR. STURGIS: Yes, it would be a different plan to

assassinate him. This came, I would say the last part of

February, if I am not mistaken.

Things came to a fever pitch.

Even the American Government, through other agents inside of

Cuba, in the military and so forth, were getting a lot of

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information about the Communist activity. And Fidel was coming

on his big thing, you know, about talking against the Americans.

And this was creating a lot of dissension with some of the top

military brass.

MR. OLSEN:

That is, the military brass of the

Cuban Government?

MR. STURGIS: Of the Cuban military, yes. And at the

same time I am trying to recruit Commander Camelo Cienfugo.

MR. OLSEN: You had attempted to recruit him?

MR. STURGIS: I attempted to recruit Commander Camelo

Cienfugo, and also Commander Almejera. He was the National

Chief of Police.

MR. OLSEN: And who was the first one, Cienfugo?

MR. STURGIS: Commander. Camelo Cienfugo was the Chief

of the Army -- I think Raoul was the Chief of the Armed Forces.

MR. OLSEN: Did you succeed in recruiting them?

MR. STURGIS: I

met them at the Capri Hotel, where

the show

as at. And I got them stoned out of their minds. And

we discussed money, how they would be willing to do, and so

forth. I didn't want to get into it too much, because I had

Camela Cienfugo lined up more, he was thinking more in line with

what I was talking

about. Commander Almejeira got stoned out

of his mind. And he just put his head on the table and went

to sleep.

That was it. And so I had a hard time keeping Camelo

rionfugo awake.

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At hose request were you trying to recruit

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MR. ROETHE:

these gentlemen?

MR. STURGIS: Remember Embassy told me, please try to

recruit agents for them.

MR. OLSEN: You were attempting to recruit people who

would provide the information for the Embassy?

MR. STURGIS: To provide agents for the American

Embassy.

MR. ROETHE: You were not recruiting them especially

for assassination attempt?..

MR. STURGIS: No. Now, Camelo gave me enough informa-

tion that night where I brok into the Chief of the Army head-

quarters - he was Chief of the Army. I broke into their files,

and I did photograph and steal documents.

MR. OLSEN: What did you do with those documents?

MR. STURGIS: I turned them over to the others.

MR. OLSEN: To Colonel Nichols?

MR. STURGIS: Yes.

MR. ROETHE: Were you operating here now for Colonel

Nichols, or do you know if you were operating for CIA? Who was

the creator of this policy, if you know, Colonel Nichols as a

diplomat? Was he a diplomat at that time?

MR. STURGIS: Colonel Nichols was the American Military

Air Attache, which could be a cover for the CIA.

MR. OLSEN: You don't know if he was CIA or not?

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MR. STURGIS: No. Again I say, nobody shows it they

are CIA, unless you are working yourself as an employee.

MR. OLSFN: Let me turn here, Frank, to this area.

Were you ever by Colonel Nichols requested to organize any

activity other than recuriting people to act as agent for the

American Embassy, were you ever asked to carry out any kind of

activity in Cuba?

MR. STURGIS: No sir.

MR. OLSEN: You were never asked to carry out any

assassination?

MR. STURGIS: No sir.

MR. OLSEN: Were you ever asked to carry out any

attempt to overthrow the Castro Government?

MR. STURGIS: Well, let's not say overthrow the

Castro Government. Colonel Nichols was very much, in his

thinking, in the discussions with him, against the Castro

Government: But then here you have a man that goes by the book.

MR. OLSEN: Let me ask you this. Were you ever asked

to carry out any, action in Cuba on behalf of the American

Embassy?

MR. STURGIS: No sir.

MR. OLSEN: Or Colonel Nichols?

MR. STURGIS: No sir.

MR. ROETHE: So your breaking in and obtaining those

documents was something that you did on your own for information

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84-85

MR. OLSEN: After you came back from Cuba at the end

of June 1959 did you

then settle in the Miami area?

MR. STURGIS: Yes sir.

MR. OLSEN: Did you take up employment in some normal

job in Miami, or did you become involved right away?

MR. STURGIS: I was not employed, sir.

MR. OLSEN: Did you engage in any business for your -

self at that point?

MR. STURGIS: Yes sir.

MR. OLSEN: Before we get to that, when you left Cuba,

did you manage to take with you any substantial amount of money

or wealth?

MR. STURGIS: No sir. I took some documents here that

beloned to Commander Ricardo Lorie in his preparation to leave

Cuba and come to exile. I helped to arrange for the escape

of the Chief of the Air Force and his wife. As a matter of fact,

I made contact with the American Embassy to see if they would

accept him in the Enbassy. And I was told by the Embassy people

ПО.

So I had to come here to make the arrangements for his

escape with his brother Sergio Diaz Bruil, who in fact himself

personnaly went to a yacht basin, Bertrand's Basin and rented

a boat, I believe it was a sailboat. With the plans that both

he and myself made, I proceeded to Cuba to pick up his brother,

the Chief of the Air Force.

MR. ROETHE: Before we get back here in ths US, the

BLATAN THA

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of the mountains and in and out of the US.

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MR. OLSEN: Frequently as a part of your revolutionary

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activities?

MR. STURGIS: In order for me to get very close with

Fidel personally, I went through a great risk in buying guns

and equipment and smuggling guns and equipment to Cuba, both

by air, by automobiles, and in key west by the ferry. And I had

an elaborate system made up.

MR. OLSEN: Let's go into that just a little bit. We

are going back into the revoluntionary period, before the

revolution

succeeded, while you were working for Castro, while

he was up in the hills. Who did you buy guns from in the. US?

MR. STURGIS: I bought guns in Alexandria, Virginia.

MR. OLSEN: From whom?

MR. STURGIS: I believe the name of the company was

ARMCO. And the owner was an ex-CIA agent.

MR. OLSEN: Named what?

MR. STURGIS: I forget.

MR. ROETHE: Was this ostensiby a private enterprise?

MR. STURGIS: At least I thought it was a private

enterprise.

MR. OLSEN: He asked, was it ostnsibly a private

enterprise. Was it actually a private enterprise?

MR. STURGIS: Let me say this here. Can i go back a

litile bit, Mr. Olsen?

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And he did get the money.

MR. OLSEN: That is the kind of information that I

have been seeking. I am trying to pin down what the money

was for, who told it was CIA money, and what steps were taken

that led to your getting the money.

Were there any other operations or expenditures that

you had which you feel you are on strong, sound ground in

saying were financed by the CIA?

MR. STURGIS: I was asked to do an assassination.

MR. OLSEN: By whom?

MR. STURGIS: Can I hold back on that?

MR. OLSEN: No, I would prefer that you tell us, if

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you will.

MR. STURGIS: It never was carried out.

MR. OLSEN: That is all right.

MR. STURGIS: I was contacted by this agent --. I am

trying to go ahead and think of the date again, because again

I will say, I had notes, and I keep them so far, and then I

destroy them. And I did tell the Senate Watergate Committee

that a friend of mine who was a CIA agent contacted me and asked

me if I would do an assassination. And I told him, yes, I

would. He said, good. Then, I will pass it on to my superior.

And he made contact with me later, at a later date. I believe

we had -- I am not sure - I think we had either lunch or

dinner at some ranch house.

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MR. ROETHE: Is this in Miami?

MR. STURGIS: Yes.

MR. OLSEN: First of all, can you go back and tell

me when you were approached by this friend of yours.

MR. STURGIS: This is why I say, I can't remember

by the exact date, and maybe by talking --

MR. OLSEN: How about, if you give us the season

of what year?

MR. STURGIS: The seasons in Miami are all along all

the year around.

MR. ROETHE: How about just the year?

MR. STURGIS: I can't remember the year.

MR. ROETHE: Are we talking about after you -- this

is after you got back from Cuba, obviously.

MR. STURGIS:

Yes, it had to be -- let me see if I

can narrow it down just about what year. Let's see. It had

to be either before. the Bay of Pigs, which is 1961, or after

the Bay of Pigs, which again could be 1961. So I would say

approximately it would be 1961.

MR. OLSEN: Then, where were you approached?

MR. STURGIS: In Miami.

MR. OLSEN: And is this somebody, Frank, for

the moment, let's defer to your wishes, or your reservations,

at least, by naming then. But is thi: somebody whom you

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MR. STURGIS: No, sir.

MR. OLSEN: Is it somebody who you knew to be a

contract agent of the CIA?

MR. STURGIS: No, Sir.

All I knew is that he was an

agent, and at a later date; it was proven that he was an

agent. So my contacts with this man throughout the years, how

he worked, my close contact with him, in Miami, the way of

operation, the way he handles himself, the people that he

was

in close contact with, that the top political and military

people who were in exile that he was in touch with, the forma-

tion of the Bay of Pigs itself before the invasion, came

through this particular man.

He was part of the forming of

this -- at least of the Revolutionary Council. And I was

approached by him and I told Sam about it. I said, Sam, what do:

you think? The idiot -- I hope this never gets publicized.

MR. OLSEN: Trust us.

MR.

STURGIS: I said, this idiot took me out, and

had some lunch,

and he asked me if I wanted to do an

assassination, or if I would do an assassination attempt for

the outfit.

And I looked him square in the face and I told him,

why did you come to me? And he says, well, Frank, like, who

else? You are a man that the Chief knows your bachground, and

I know your background, and I know you are capable. And you

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• a capable man.

And if anybody can do it, you can do it.

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But the thing is, would you be interested?

--

And I said; yes, I would be.

MR. OLSEN: Did he talk to you about a sum of

money?

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MR. STURGIS: No, no money was - the discussion

of money was not involved in it, because I would not do any-

thing for money. And he knows better than to ask me, unless.

would be, Frank, what do you need for your expenses?

MR. OLSEN: Who was the target of this assassination?

Was it Fidel Castro?

• MR. STURGIS: No. I don't know. What happened was

that I had another meeting with him, and he said he would

contact his Chief, and he would -- and he told me to contact

him later on, and I think he gave me a certain day to contact

him, and. I said OK. You must remember that, how I know this

man

as an agent, because he does the same things as I do,

in his wife, he types away, or at least,. he has a wife who

types away, he makes all the reports, and stacks them in a

file cabinet. Ihave heard him talk to his case officer on

the telephone.. And to me that was very stupid. of him in doing

that even to me who was his friend. That is a stupid way of

doing things.

Because he did not suspect that I was in touch

with Sam, he cannot know. And the only time that he suspected

that I had anything to do with CIA is when we were in prison,

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and the man on the television

said, yes, he used. to work for the

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the CIA.

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MR. OLSEN: When you say CIA, you were talking about

the Watergate, not the other agent and me?

MR. STURGIS: I am talking about the agent and me, who

was part of the Watergate group. And he was dumfounded and

said, what, you work for CIA? And I said, yes, sir, you dumb

bastard you, I was turning you in to my case officer.

MR. OLSEN: So neither one of you suspected. --

MR. STURGIS: I knew he was an agent, but I didn't

know that I was in contact - I never used the word -- or

at least I don't think I did, and I hope I haven't used it

today -- thatI said I was an employee of CIA.

MR. OLSEN:. No, I haven't even said that you were

an agent of the CIA.

MR. STURGIS: Or that I was connected with the CIA.

MR. OLSEN: Now, who was the target of this conver-

sation about assassination?

MR. STURGIS: I had a second meeting with him at

the Ranchhouse, and he told me, he says, well, there is

interest, Frank. He said, about this assassination, and I

said, fine. I said.

And then he started to questioning, how would you

do it? And I said, how do you mean how I would do it? There

are several ways of trying to do assassination. The things

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have to know is who the person is, that is number

i, it is

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important, and where the person is at, which is important.

And then, I will have to go ahead and go to the place where

this man lives or what have you, after I know this information.

And I said then, I can go ahead and tell you how I can do

it. And he said, with a body, this and that, he will be

discovered, you know we can't be connected with it. And I

said, well, if you are worried about that, you do it. Ani he

said, well, I can't do it. And I said, OK, beautiful.. And I

want

-

I wanted to tell you something, I will do this,

because you are a friend of mine, and because you asked me.

But I will want more than that. And he said what is that?'

said I want it from somebody higher than you, from somebody

with authority. If you tell me - and you are my friend, and

I believe you -- but I want it more from somebody else that

has some authority. : You have a case officer.

I want your case officer to tell me to do an

assassination plot, and I will do it. But coming from you, you

are my friend, my buddy, but I have got to have more than

that for my protection.

MR. OLSEN: Did he ever put you in contact with

his case officer?

MR. STURGIS: I knew who his boss was.

MR. OLSEN: Who was his boss?

MR.

STURGIS:

Edwardo.

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Wait just a minute. I am sorry..

I could be wrong

there. I said the wrong thing.

If I am going after the Bay of Pigs invasion, if

this did happen, as far as the date is concerned, after the

Bay of Pigs invasion, Edwardo did quit the operation and go

on some other assignment or what have you.

So that means

he was no longer in the Miami area. So this part I had to

get a new case officer.

MR. OLSEN: Edwardo left Miami before the Bay

of Pigs, didn't he?

MR. STURGIS: He left after -- well, I don't know

I am sorry. Because there is a possibility that he may have

been either in Miami or he may have been in the Headquarters

in Washington. But I can't pin it down because I don't know

exactly where he was at.

MR. OLSEN: Did he ever make contacts with this man's

case officer?

MR. STURGIS: No, sir, because it had to be one of

two people, it either had to be Edwardo, whom I had never met,

or it had to be possibly im Knowles) after Edwardo left.

MR. OLSEN: Dia (Jim Knowles) take his place, then?

MR. STURGIS: I believe 80, I believe (im knorled)

did take his place as this party's case officer.

MR. OLSEN: And then, you did not actually have any

contact with his case officer?

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MR. STURGIS: When I told him that, I think I kind

of stung him a little bit. And he said, well, OK, all right.

Then, you will go through with it? And I said certainly, I will

go through with it, I don't care who the hell it is. I said,

you let me know. And hopefully, I was thinking of Fidel

Castro, because I could have snuck into Cuba, I have done it

so many times, and I would have taken a crack at killing

Fidel.

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MR. ROETHE: I missed something. when I was out of the

room. I take it you did not know the identity of the person

whom you were being asked to assassinate?

MR. STURGIS: No, sir, I did not. I asked him --

you see, I didn't publish it, in other words, I was told no

publicity. I was told, because Sam says, go ahead and work

with him, and he said,. let me know what is progressing.

MR. ROETHE: Is Sam what you would call your case

officer?

MR. STURGIS:

sam

is my contact, the man I was

connected with. •

MR. ROETHE: And you would always go to him before

you would go ahead with some action like this?

MR. STURGIS: Oh, exactly. I wouldn't do anything

unless I received an OK from somebody.

MR. ROETHE: Did you have any idea that this had

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-nything to do with Cuba?

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MR. STURGIS: It always had to do with Cuba.

MR. ROETHE: You were aware that this assassination

had something to do with Cuba?

MR. STURGIS: I was thinking that it did, I could

have been wrong. I was thinking that it could have something

to do with Cuba.

MR. ROETHE: Did Sam seem to know anything about

the subject-- about this, or did this seem to come as a

surprise?

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MR. STURGIS: It was a surprise. He was surprised.

that my friend approached me on something like this. And he

said, don't say, no. I said, I will do it to anybody. I said,

Sam, if it is all right, if this case officer - Sam said, tell

me who the case officer is, and if it is true. oK.

MR. ROETHE: What was your motivation for saying

that you would do this?.

MR. STURGIS: You know what a whore is?

MR. ROETHE: Do I know what a whore is?

MR. STURGIS: Yes.

MR. ROETHE:

I guess I do.

MR. STURGIS: I don't mean to go ahead and question

you. I am sorry. But in intelligence a whore is an agent that

they would want that would do anything. But he has got to be

motivated by patriotism. And that he would do anything for

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his country, regardless of what it was.

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MR. ROETHE: Assuming that it was something that an

official request made on behalf of the government?

MR. STURGIS: Well, you would think

that if a case

officer -- and you would be surprised how powerful a case

officer -- what power a case officer has in his hands. He

has got a lot of power.

MR. OLSEN:. Thank you very much, Frank.

(Whereupon, at 6:00 o'clock p.m., the interview was

concluded.)

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