Agency: SSCIA
Originator: SSCIA
From: COTTER, RICHARD
Document date: 5/5/76
Document type: PAPER-TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

## Page 1

157-10014-10052

Date

Page

08/05/95

1

JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM

IDENTIFICATION FORM

AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : SSCIA

RECORD NUMBER

: 157-10014-10052

RECORDS

SERIES

HEARINGS

AGENCY FILE

NUMBER

08 -- H-03

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR :

SSCIA

FROM

TO

COTTER, RICHARD

TITLE

DATE : 05/05/76

PAGES

:

63

SUBJECTS

FBI,

METHODOLOGY

OSWALD, LEE,

POST-RUSSIAN PERIOD

ASSASSINATION, KENNEDY, JOHN

DOCUMENT TYPE : TRANSCRIPI

CLASSIFICATION

: UNCLASSIFIZD

RESTRICTIONS

: 1À

CURRENT STATUS

: RELEASED WITH DELETIONS

DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 05/13/98

OPENING CRITERIA

COMMENTS : Box 3

(R] - ITEM IS RESTRICTED

99609

NH

DooId: 32423440

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volt on

Oh unitro Statra Sriate

Квот

Report of Proceedinge

Hearing held before

Senate Select Committee to Btudy Governmental

operationa With Respect to Intelligence Activitiem

150 w

REVIEWED BY FBWJFK TASK FORCE

ON

3/24/58 cot

I RELEASE IN FULL pencing

• RELEASE IN PARTS

3CДA

• TOTAL DENIAN

concunese

pg. 2?:

CIA HAS NO OBJECTION TO

DECLASSIFICATION AND/OR

RELEASE OF CIA INFORMATION

IN THIS DOCUMENT AS SANITIZED

1 48

Wednesday, May 3, 1976

Washington, D. C.

(Stenotype Tape and Waste turned over

to the Committee for destruction)

WARD & PAUL

3039 WILSON BOULEVARD

ARLINGTON, VA 22201

(703) 841-0800

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C.

WARD a PAUL

810F9s1 Street, 5.k, Matrengion, D.C, 2000)

TOPIS GRET

gongonet

3

TESTIMONY

OF

Richard Cotter

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AFF

INTERVIEN;

Wednesday?: Mayy5, 1976

United States Senate,

Select Committee to Study Governmental

Operations with Respect to

Intelligence Activities,

Washington, D. C.

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 11:10 o'elock

doM., in Room 608, the Carroll Arms Hotel.

Staff:

Paul Wallach.

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TESTIMONY OF RICILARD COTTER

• Mr. Wallach, Would you please state your name and address

for the record.

Mr. Cotter. Richard Cotter, C-0-t-t-e-5, 5337 Ravensworth,

R-a-y-e-n-a-v-z-t-h, Road, Springeseid, Virginia.

Mr. Wallach. Mr. Cotter, you have been interviewad before

the Committee before, ia that correct?

Mr. Cotter. Yes, I have.

MI. Wallach. At that time wero you placed under oath,

waB & Senator present?

Mº. Cottor. Thore was no Senator prusent. I believe

placed undor oath, yes.

Mr: Wallach. In any event, the testimony you give here

today will be available for you to raviow, and I would like

to proceed with the understanding that at such time that you

review it, that if we deaire, that you will swear to the truth

of the statements contained therein.

MI. Cotter. Right.

Me. Hallach. Additionally, as I mentioned to you before.

Senator Schweiker cannot be here today because he la tied up

in some C'ommittee hearings. Our rules do provido that you i:

allowed

to have a senator here, and your statement was that i.:

agreed to proceed in his absence, is that correct?

MI. Couter. T'hat's correct.

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Mr. Wallach:

Additionally vas we advise all' witnesses,

1207•

you do have the right to counsel, and 1! at any elme you want to

adjourn and securo counsas, we will do that.

Mr. Cotter. Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Wallach. Just very brlefly, could you for the record

tell us when you first came into the Nationalities Intelligenco

Division - or Section. I'm sorry . within the Domestic

Intelligence Division, and from that point on just briefly

trace your career with the Bureau.

NI. Cotter. Okay, I may be a bit fuzzy, but I was assigno:

to Nationalitios Intelligence initially in mid-1953, and 1

worked continuously thereafter in Nationalitius Intolligence

until 1970 in various capacities. About 1959 I was named a

unit chief in that section, and about 1962 l became the nuror

one man, or assistant section chief under wak. Wannall, ara ti

in 1965, following a reorganization of the Domestic Intelligon.:

Division, I became a section chief in Nationalities Intelliye..i

and Iemained in that capacity until January 1970.

M5. Wallach. Calling your attention now to the perioi

prior so the assassinacion of President John f. Kennedy - i

1

explained to you the major thrust of our quostions today .::

to the assassination and the FBI's investigation of the

issassination of President kennedy, bus calling your attentio:

su chu jeriod bofore that time, I take it that you were, bi

virtuo of your position, faniliar wich FBI's - I use the wor..

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Cuban operations

although they ghepbe operations in the

technical

B0л382

in, ware you in

the' Nationalities Intolligence

section prior. to the time

"that Castro

took over?

".:"

Mr. Cotter.

Yes, I was, briefly

-2250Y 985

Mr. Wallach, Were you familiar with the operations that

Clark Anderson was running out or te

Mr. Cottor. I was generally famillar with what the

743

Legal Attache, Havana, was doing. I don't know particularly --

you're not referring to any particular operation.

ME. Wallach. No, I'm not.

Mr. Cotter. No, I was generally awaro of his work.

Mr. Wallach, I want:to be clear. I don'e at this point

want to yet into tha operationa of sources or anything like thr

we don't nead to got into that.

MI. Cotter. Right.

Mr. Wallach. It'a just generally my understanding that

at the time Clark was the lsgat down there, that the Bureau

had some very good sources within the Batista Government, and

what I would like to ask you is from your experience afteria::.

when Casero came in, did the bureau

still have sourcos withi::

the Cuban lovernment from say the period 1961, 1962 and 1952.

Mr. Cotter. I have no knowledge that we had, wichin tad

Cubin Government during that period. Maybo, you know, I don':

know offhand when the Legal Attache left.

Mo, Wallach, I think it was in '59 or '60.

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Cotter

shortly.

afterwards, I don't have any

Information'about"the Bureau s'operationa in Cuba after Castri

took over er serlousty

doubt that' they did.

Mr.. Wallach.

X+ft

WI am hot really asking whether of not thuy

did havo a particular high leval source, whether a particular

person wasna source. ihat I'd really like to know is was:

d;:

the Bureau gleaning positive intelligence Information from

Cuba, for example, at the time of the Bay of Pigs.

Mr. Cotter. Yes, but from very fringa typo sources as a

rule, refugeas from Cuba, Amorican businossmen and so forth whe

had contacta in Cuba. A lot of it was unvorified, unsubstantidid:.

there wasn't too much real hard, accuratu information availabl

to the Bureau.

Mr. Wallach, Do you know Vince Nascu?

MI. Cottor, Yes, I do, quite weli.

Mr. Wallach. Vince is atill with the Bureau, and it is

my understanding that at that time he evolvod on the desk that

was working on anti-Castro groups?

Mr. Cotter. Yes, that's true. l the pust he's handled

both pro-Castro and anti-Castro. I think his princion speed.

has been anti-Castro in recent years.

Mr. Wallach. Who in your

estinazion would nave been or

were

the people at the Bureau most knovledgouble in the Cuban

area

in late 1963?

Mr. Cocter. Cortuinly Masca. Ray liannall, the section

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chief who was

nin' overall charged

the number one man, myself,

although to a much' lesser degroe, than Nanca or Wannald, perhaps

the head of the Division who was W.'C. Sullivan. If there was

sonathing really high level kuomething of importance going on,

sullivan would have known. And one other possibility would be

• Trasht:

the foreign diaison people who.

MI. Wallach. Das Brennan!a?

ME. Cottar. Dan Brennan's section. Now, at that timo I

don't think Brennan was a section chief. I don't know for

certain, but it might have boon hia predacessors in that job,

poople liko Graham Day.

You don't happen to know offhand when Brennan served as

section chief?

Mr. Wallach, No, I don't, but he was there.

Mr. Cotter. Also there was a foreign liaison unit in

addition. Brennan was a section chief, but there was also

a unit that supervised the operations of all legal attaches so:

Nate ferris was the key man in that. Ho was a supervisor in

charge. now, offhand I don't remember when he, ferris, rotii.:.

but I think he was still there iu '63.

Mr. wallach. He's fairly old now, isn't he?

Mr. Cotter. He's quite old.

r, kullach, Lat me change the subject fur a second.

Mr. Cocter.

When is tho first time you recall beconing aware of wi

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fact that the united tato Governmento and particularly the

CIA, had attempted to 'ammansinate Fidel Castro?

MI. Cotter. Alter

lete the bureau, Inoother words, as

a result of press dialosures.: In other words, I never received

any

information from within' the Bureau.

Mr. Wallach. So to the beat of your recollection,

then, at no time while you were in the Bureau .

Mr. Cotter, At no time did I receiva any information,

director or indirect about an attempted assassination of

Castro by any government agency.

MI, Wallach. Let me just for the record show you

a memorandum from MI. Hoover dated May 10, 1962, and I want eu

be clear for the record there is no indication you received in:

In

fact, I doubt that you did.

Mr. Cotter. Okay,

Mr. Wallach. The memorandum deals wich many different

matters, but the last page, page 6, the latter part of page 6 Ja

page 7 describe a conversation between Mr. Hoover and Attoriu:

General Robert Kennedy in which choy talk about an assassina:...

plot. The CIA had hired the Mafia to assassinate Fidel Caoe:..

Let me show you the last paragraph of tha: page.

Are you able to read it?

Mr. Cotter. I think so.

(The Witness roads the documont.)

Ma. Cotter. There are a lew words I can't read.

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Mr•, Wallachey

Nell)

1t:в

Emore for:

yourrinformation, to see

that that information

was avallablo."'

1.00"

We do have other memoranda

too.. that indicates the Bureau was fully aware of what wa

have termed the Mafia plots, the CIA Malia plots to assassinate

# 101

Castro that took place in '61, and '62.g

Mr. Cotter. Yeah, that certainly' is pretty convincing.

тріся.

Ma. Wallach. In any event, onco again you are clear that

you were never told about these plots.

MI. Cottor. No.

Mr. Wallach. Did you have any diroct dealinga with anyone

In CIN, or was that handled directly through Papich?

ME. Cotter. 99 porcent of 1t way handlad through Papich.

but occasionally we would meet with our CiA counterparts to

discuss matters of interest. I do not offhand recall any nee::

that I had with any CIA people on Cuban affairs. I had a

number of meetings on Chinese matters, I know that.

Mr. Wallach. Did you ever meet Dosmond Fitzgorald?

MI. Cottor. On one occasion. I remember meeting him in

a big conference they had, but that had nothing to do with :.

Cuban sicuation.

Mr. Wallach, So then all of your contacts would have

been handled through rapich.

No. Cotter. Highi.

Mo, walluch, similarly, in serms of what I have laboli:

the CIA Matia attempts againa: Castro, we also recently --t:.

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Bureau has*

also-recentl

Provided us with documents Indicating

that certain"persong withtniche Nationalities Intelligence

section, yoursol? not inéluded, had khowlodge of the fact that

In '63 or they acquired this knowledge within the Bureau in

late '63, early "GAithat the CIl was also attempting to use

•i ride.?

certain Cubans to assassinate ridel Castro.

Did that ever, come to

your attention?

Mr. Cotter."' I' have no recollection of lt, no. You know,

It's even possible that I may have seen that memo that you just

showed

me from Mr. Hoover, but it just didn't regiater that

I did see 1t.

Mr. Wallach. It's also my understanding that parts of tic

memorandum from Mr. Hoover were distributed because they rolled

to different subject matters. For example, there was discussioni

between the Attorney Ceneral and Mi. Hoover on the latin Americut.

Academy•

Mr. Cottor. Yoah.

MI. Wallach. Which was excerpted and certain of it was

put into files. So you may have seen that.

Mr. Cotter.

Right.

ir. Wallach. But 1 tako it it does'e ring any bells

when you say anything about assassination plots.

Mi. Cotter.

NO.

Mr. Wallach, You would doubi that you did see that.

Mr. Colter. Normally when Mr. Hoover writes a memo liñe

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that, they do distri

aroundr

co.any.linterented.section.or

division or supervisor, unlesa:

there was some reason why they

considered 1e ultra-sonailive and withheld distribution.

VENG

ME. Wallach. Well, that was stamped confidential.

woudd

i, justis

that have any effect on distribution?.

Me. Cotter. 'I don't know

#I know the Burasu

ald not normally classity its intemal mail at that time. so

that would have been a mark that Mi. Hoover considered it

ultra-special or ultra-sensitive.

MI. Wallach. Whon the assassination of President Konnedy

cook place on Novembor 22nd -- well, lot's take a stey backwaras

first. In the period 1961, '62, '63, do you recall at any :::

anyone from the Bureau going to any meetings at the Pentaçon

or goiny to any meetinga in general to get involved in the

Cuban operations that the U.S. was conducting againat the cait.

regime?

Mi. Cotter. No, I don't. I do recall -- I can't

place the tine, unfortunately, but I do recall one occasio.

where veneral bansdalo, I believe it was --

15. Kailach. Lansdale.

ir. Colter. Lanadale. Visited the bureau and condcrro..

with Mr. Belmont, who at that time was an assistant to the

Director.

Mi, idlinino l you remember, could that have been ':

Ma, Cooter. 1 am a0rry, but 1 just can't place tias.

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might have

"bean '62

rocall'i

specifically

Have been 63.*

I don't even

betore the Kennedy assassination

at alli I presume Bo:

It wasnafter Castro had baon pretty well entrenched in

power for a year or two, and Lanadale came over to see salmone,

and I know at that time I was à Supervisor in charge of what

they called the Western Hemisphöre Unit, which handled Cuban

matters, and Vince Nasca was the supervisor that handled a

lot of Cuban, individual Cuban cases. Sterling Donahoo was the

section chiot, at that time, and at Donahoe's instructions,

Nasca and myself accompanied him to Bolmont's office to sit

in on this conference betweon Belmont and lansdale, and to

lend whatever support or information Belmont needed.

MI, Wallach, What took place at that mecting?

Mr. Cotter. There was just a general discussionsof what

could be done about Castro, that sort of thing, what the

Bureau was doing, and what the prospects were for the future,

and I don't recall too much specific, but I do recall one

thing that occurred that sort of ties in here a little bit

in an indirect way. At sone point along the line, toward

the end of the meeting -- and I think they were just sort o:.

belinont and bansdale wore kind of saying their amenities, ain. i:

and Belmont nude what I knew to be a joking comment about --

Lansdale evidently, I don't know exactly how he was introdlier.

but the people attending the meeting, at least my perception o:

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him was that he

had been BracaaviR charge or doing something

.=1544

about Castro, something in ther terms of socrot operations and

so forth, and Balmont said

something joxingly to him about

why doesn't he hire, I forget whether he used the term Mafia,

or some term about the underworld, and take care of Castro. But

no sald 1i Mith a smile on hia 'face, and I'm sure it was intended

strictly as humor. Well, the odd part about it was that Lansdalo

innodiately porked up and took it seriously, and you know, started

asking Belmont, well, you know, do you think this could be

arrangod and this sort of thing. And Bolmont was shocked by the

renction he yut, and he immediatoly, you know, triud to put

some distanco, tried to make it clear to Lanadalo that he was

just kidding, and he tried to got off the subject, and they

never, Lansdale could never, you know, get him back to aerio..!.

talk about it. Dut i definitely do remember that little

incident.

Mr. Wallach. This was at a time when Donahoe was still uh.:

section chief, and --

HI. Cotter. Donahoe was the Section Chief, right, bucaus.

Wannall was not at this meetiny. It was just four oi us fro

the Bureau: Belmont, bonance, Masca

and myselt.

MI, Hallach. Do you renomber if you and Nasca were

asker:

any

quustions?

I would like to yo more

particularly, Into dotails.

eulize we sic talking about a meeting and conversations that :

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some 14 yeara ago.

Mr. Cotter. I roally don't recall. I'm aure that Nasca

and myself had some things to day, and Donahoe, too.

Mr. Wallach, Would you have written a memorandum on the

meeting?

Mr. Cotter. It would have been normal procedure. It would

be.highly unusual not to write a memorandum, although it is

possiblo. I mean, it may have been - this is one of those

things that may have fallen between the desk, because maybe it

wasn't clear who was going to write the memorandum, It could

have been any one of the four of us. But usually, whenever

meeting like this took place, a memorandun was wiition dor

lis, Hoover's information if for nothiny else.

HI. Wallach, You don't remembar buing instructed not tu

write a memorandum of this meeting.

MI. Cotter. No. I think I would remember chat, if I

was

told not to write it. Chances are there was a memo writtu:,

lat least to tell Mo. Hoover what was going on, and especiall:

beinont was very careful to observe the rules in that regatu.

Mr, Wallach, Do you know if Lansdale had reyuested a

nucting, or Deinont had reyuested it?

Mr. cotter. I couldn't say for sure, ¿s has my ingres.:.!

tha: Lansdale had requested it, and it was just etrictly ai

assuription on iny part, but I gathered thus

he was Louchin;

buse with all the intelligence agencios.

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Mr. wallach. "Had you been briated. betore the meeting about

what Lansdale was Involved in, or was that general knowledge in

the Bureau to people in this area?.

MI. Cotter. Well, as I say, to the best of my recollection,

I cannot apecifically recall words, but I'm sure Donahoe probably

told Nasca and I that ho wanted us to accompany him to Belmont's

office, that this deneral Lansdale was going to be there, that ho

had been appointed, I believe, by the whito llouse to head up a

special projects type thing with rogard to Cuba, but that was i:

It would have bean vary general, and that we wore going alony

just in case Belmont needed some information about what the

Bureau was doing.

MI. Wallach. All Ilght.

One of the points you said Lansdale wanted to find out was

what the Bureau was doing vig-a vis Cuba.

What was the Bureau doing vis-a-via Cuba at that time?

MI. Cotter. Well, we were investigating very strenuously

with regard to any allegations of individuals or groups who wer:

¡or alleged to be engaged in pro-Castro activities. The emuna:::

was always on trying to find Cuban intelliyence agents operdia::

in the United Scates, and there were

several cases where we

either identified

agants or people were vory highly suspectod

of such.

"r. Wallach. Without going into any names at all, we wor:

told that thu bureau did have a highly placed sourco within tir

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Cuban consulate:

In New

YorkiCa

time.

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D

Do you rocallithat?

Mr. Cotter. Yes, there was one old-time there, an old-time

source, He had boonda source, au I recall, long before Castro

took over under Batista.. Somehow he managed to maintain his

position after Castro took over, at least for a unile. He was

a career type.

8

Mr. Wallach. Do you know if he was around at the time of

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the Konnedy assassination, of you really don't recolloct?

Mr. Cotter. No, I don't recall that.

Mr. Wallach. But was the Bureau doing anything affirmatin.

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vis-a-via Cuba? I understand they wore in counturintelligence

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or in a counterespionago sense tryiny to dotoct agunta and ?::

to ncutralize them.

But were they doiny anything operationa!!:

or assiatingly as to those operations, or were they themseiro:

16

doing anything against Cuba?

Mr. Cotter. I don't have any knowledge of that, no, no.

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I would say no, definitely not.

Mr. Wallach. Did Lansdale ask the Bureau to do anyeh::

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Did he want the Bureau's assistance?

Mr. Cotter. Not at this

meeting he didn't, and i do:':

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have any other knowledge that

he did ever ast anything sir::

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ile was just, I think, briafed.

Mr. Wallach. Beiny briefed an to what?

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MI. Cottor, lle was searching for ideas on what ho mic..:

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consider,as, you" knowy feasible projects to"adopt to get rid

of Castro, as it wore:

it Vore. " done know that ho used those terma

either. That in my own terminology. But they wanted to do

something to curb, check, eliminate Castro.

Mr. Wallach, Was this after or before the Bay of Pigs,

do you remember? I would thinkile would be alter.

Mr. Cotter. Afterwards you think?

Me, Wallach. Yes.

Just from my own knowledge of when Lansdalo was appointed.

MI. Cotter. Yeah. Well, it could have been, it could

have been, you know, after that proved to be a failure, why

maybe they adopted this procedure.

Mr. Wallach. In any event, what was Lanadale briefed upa.

was he briefed upon Cuban intelligence axtivities within the

United States, or what did the Bureau

Mr. Cotter. He was told, in other words, roughly what the i

Bureau had developed in terma of how many Cuban sympathigers,

how many pro-Castro type people there were, what groups there

wore. There were several activo groups within the United Stan

where the focus was all concentrated, and I believe he would i

26 !

e: " buen briefed, about those people who had beun tensatively idu:: :.

24

as intelligence agents, and what - the general nature of thi

Bureau's coverage. The Bureau was gettiny a lot of what wa

2:

call rosicive intelligence. They were making every effort to

interview people who had just boen in Cuba, or who had visitei

25

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Cuba, or who had reiat

and!friends.

We wore, getting information

out of Cuba in one form

! or another.

Mr. Wallach, And these are from persons for the most

part, refugees in Miami?

Mr. Cotter. Most of them are one shot type things, you

know, temporary type informants or sources. Some were more

stoady than others. I mean, there were a few people who the

Burcau got a lot of information from over a long period of time.

Mr. Wallach. Did these people have friende and relatives

back in Cuba?

Mr. Cottor, Ilthor that or business contacts.

As i recall, there were one

or cho people -- I know thui:

was one wonan in New York that gave us a lot of information.

most of which was very flaky and at least in my opinion was u!

very doubtful value. I know that a lot of the sources that

were reporting to the Bureau kept portraying the hardships tha:

were going on in Cuba, and they painted a picture in general in f

Castro couldn't last, that they were running out of oil,, the:

¡were runnirg out of rubber, they were just -- his regime yus:

would not survive, and that turned out to be false, of cours.:.

Nt. Wallach. Was there any more specific type of

¡intelligence infornation that was provided in terms of what

Castro was acsually doiny, or what the military was doing a.:

things like that, or was it juse general?

MI, Cotter, Whatever was available, we took and funnelie

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out to the other

agencies; CIA, State Department

:.44

basically, sometimes the military"

"if it woemed to have

mildtary interent. i

Mr. Wallach, Were you aver informed or aro you aware of

whether or not Lanadale ever met with anyone else?

Mr.. Cotter, No, I don't know that. You mean in the sureau?

Mr. Wallach, Yes..: raili.

MI. Cotter.: No, I don'e know that he ever mot with anyone elsc.

9

in the bureau.

10

MI. Hallach. Do you recall an occasion on which Sterliny

11

Donahoe went out to the Pentagon to moat with Lansdalo?

12

Mr. Cotter. No.

13

Now that you mention Sterling Donahoo going out to the

14

Pentagon, though, I do recall one occasion whore Donahoe wer:

15

ont to the Pentagon, I'm aure it was the Pentayon, and cool u

16

along with him to meet with some people from other ayencies, i

17

" I believe there was a CIA man there - I don't recall his nom.

18

Mr. Wallach. Does William Harvey ring a ball, big

19

" neck, bulging eyes?

Mr. Cotter. The man I recall wis quite short, squat,

20

2:. rot

particularly big, and he talked up a scorn all the cine.

2a dha talked in very stilted intelliyence type language. ¿ ro:::

2"

that was the big thing that impressed re about the meetaly.:

24

"ras

all -- 1 nean, you had to alnost interpret what he sai... :

25

клон.

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## Page 22

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TOR SECRETS

Mr. Wallach.

• Was

me

ngue you recall,, before or

after the occasion when

Lanadalo, came to meet with 'Dalmont?

Mr. Corter, I don't recall that esthor. Pebbably before.

But it had no connection with Lansdale, and I don't recall it

having any overtones or any connections, whatever, with any

secret or clandestine-sype

operations or assasaination attempts

or anything.

Mr. Wallach. We are talking about the meeting at the

Pentagon.

Mo. Cotter. Yeah.

No. Hallach. Now, ware you brlefed as so what the purpose

of that meeting was, or what was your understanding as to the

purpose of that meeting, if you can possibly recall?

Ns. Cotter. You know, over the years you actend so many

of these meetings, and they kind of get to be a big blus.

Mr. Wallach, MI. Donahoe has testified that the subject di

assassinating Castro was brought up at that meetiny.

Mr. Cotter. At a meeting.

Mr. Wallach. At a meeting at the Pentagor.

Mr, Cotter. At which I was present?

Me. Wallach, He recalled someone else at the Burea lita:

wich him, but he could not rocall who cise it was.

Mr. lottor, I did accompany him to this one meeting,

maybe it was the same.

Mr. Wallach, You testified you only vent to one.

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Cotte

Well maybe this

then:

Has Harvey' the man

he identified?

Mr. Wallach. He did nothracally but he recalled that

Lansdale vas at least présent for, a time.

25150948

• Mri

cotter. well,', am sorry, to be so danned indefinite.

I don't recati the subjece o astasination ever being mentioned

at that meeting.

Mr. Hallach." What was discussed at that meeting?

Mr. Cotter.

I can't recall anything other than just

generalities about what the difforent agencies, whas their

assets were.

Mr. Wallach. In Cuba?

Mr. Cotter.

Rogarding Cuba.

Mr. Wallach. What agencies were there? You said

CIA was there.

MI. Cotter. I couldn't even identify those clearly. The

military - you might say who in the military.

• MI. Wallach, No, I'n not.

Mr. Cotter. No. There was nobody there from State, is

rerember. I think there were just four or five people.

ir. Wallach, You don't remenber the nanes of anyono.

MI. Cotter.

their names, that I could recall it.

No, and I don't chink even if you told lie

Mi. Wallach. Would you have prepared, in all likelihos...

memorandum on the meeting?

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## Page 24

WARD A PAUL

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Mr. Cotter. would think sow Just based on the way we

00 are

operated, yes. I don't recall it specifically.

* remembas penande it i the rey sack talking about

this CIA fellow'g atyle of upeoch. It was' so far out in terms of!

you know, he had his own

r.,"r

Mr. Wallach, Mr. Donahoe specifically recalled - and I'm

paraphrasing his tastimony, and of course, I don't have it here

bafore me, to the effect that the subject of using the Nafis

to assassinate . he didn't say the word assasginate was used

but to get rid of Castro was brought up, and he sort of said

how inappropriate thia would be, et cetera, et cetera.

You don't recall that?

MI. Cotter, No, I don't recall it, but it certainly wa:

logical. I know the Bureau, that would br the Bureau's reactiv

and if it was brought up, I am sure it wasn't brought up by

anybody from the Bureau, or It'a possible it was brought up.

mean, there were so many things mentioned, you know, some halli

in ject and some - weld, not in jest, but sort of -- at an;

kind of a brainstorming

session I'm sure a lot of things were

nentioned that - a hell of a lot of thought has to be give.

tO.

ME. Wallach. It's Donahoe's recollection that chis

cook place after he had been or become bulnont's rumber eno

".l...

the meeting at the Pentayon, and that hu thought thas he con

someone from the soction with him.

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$10 F MAl 511091, 38, 101919155, DC.70009

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Mr. Cotter.

I would have boen a logical one to take, 11 not

the logical one, either

mo or NaBes.

Mr. Wallach. Getting' back to the other meeting that. Lansdate

had with Belmont and the others at the fbI offices, do you recall

whether Belmont mentioned any names within the Matia or

organized crime? Did he mention Glancana, Rosselll, or why

don't you hire one of those fellows?

Ms. Cotter. No. I would be pretty sure of that because

tho only mention made of assassination or Malia or anything

like that was this one little occasion I told you that cook pluct

toward the end of the meeting, and belmont, he had sort of lu

was sort of a whimsical character, and I'm sure he intended

this just as a Joke, and I know that as soon as Landale

evinced interest, Belmont just scrambled to make it clear

that he was only kidding. He didn't, you know, he had no - ....

therefora Belmont would never - I'm suro he didn't briny out

any specifics whatsoever.

Mr. Wallach. Aside fron those two meetings we discusse. •

MI. Cotter. Yes.

Mr. Wallach. Were you at any time involved in, prior:

2:

the

assassination, in any mectings with any persong discuss.,

¡ochor than the Bureau's counterespionage activicies vis-a-a

En jesud, in other words, you are aware that, even if the knowind

24 jeane later, that the governient was

ruininy what they calle

25

Operation MONGOOSE, the CIA was in paramilitary operations i.

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## Page 26

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•a LArAs 208

ou..

WAHO

C.

410 F Me SteTTI, 5k, Mashiratan, DC. DC.20001

Cuba. "Were you every involved infany of those type meetings that

2

YOu recall?

3

MI. Cottor. I was novar In' any meetings, The Bureau would

4

6

get information from time to time abou the CIA. Before the Bay

of piga toox place, for example, we did occasionally get informa-

tion about the CIA preparations os about the anti-castro movement,

what they were doing, or the fact thas they were training in

8

10

1:

Mexico, I bellevo, right?

MI. Wallach. Uh-huh.

Mr. Cotter. And occasionally the Buronu would gat some

tidbit of information that we think aight be of intorest to

12

¡CIA, some runor of a penetration by Castro, of an dotivity o:

13

sonething like that.

Mr. Wallach. I think they might have beon training in

14

15

Guatemala.

16

17

Ms. Cotter. Guatemala, you're right, yes.

Mr. Wallach. But at that time, to the best of your

18

i knowledge -

13

Ms. Cotter. But I didn's attend any strategy meetinys,

20

either in or outside of the bureau, wich rogard to paramilita::

21

loperations or anything related.

Mo. Wallach. In 1963 do you know whether of not the bui:.:

23

2:

24

I had

any souIces,

and by that I moan informants, assets, whati:

term you want to use, within the cuba. diplomatis establist...

25

in Mexico City, the Cuban consulater

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дом .

то .

MAND A PAUL

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Do you remember?

Mr. Cotter. "I don' eirocall any. "It is possible that 1f

such a source existed, he vo

would have boen operated by the Legal

Attacho In Mexico City: And'It'a' posalblo ha did have one. I

doubt It. I nover saw any information that showed any inside

Information coming out of Mexieo.

MI. Wallach, Did the Bureau at that time sun operations

against the Cubang out of Mexico City?

Ms. Cotter. Run operations, you mean have the Legal

Attache directing operations againat Cubana?

No. Wallach, Right.

MI. Cotter, I don't know of any.

MI. Wallach. In other words, something the sAC would du

up in New York, for example..

Ms. Cotter, Something the Lagal Attache would organize

to get information from the Cubans.

Mr. Wallach. Right.

Bir. Cotter, No, I'm not aware of anything like that.

MI. Wallach. You vero aware that they were getting inforna:l.:

from CIA though.

MI. Cotter. In goneral, yes. Yesh, the cIA, a know, ha:.

believe they had - I may have this wrong - CIA had certai::

types of coveraye on the Cubun embassy. They may have had

photographic coverage, a lookout or something like that, and

*itu

possibly had telephone coverage.

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Mr. Wallach:

Melve

gottenvanto that-because that cama up

In the oswald case, sit do you know whether the Bureau had any

covorago.itsel!?

Mi. Cotter. Not to my knowledge. I would say no, based on

what I--I don't know of any.

MI. Wallach. At the time of the assassination, if you can

recollect for us what you recall happening and your involvement

at the Dureau

Ma. Cotter. Yeah. Well, at the time of the assassinatior...

Oswald was identified, of course, immediately, and it turned

out that Oswald was the subject of a dual-captioned case, li

other words, he was of interes: to both the soviet section, vi:

had the prime investigation of Oswald, Uswald having defected

to the Soviet Union, or he was a rupatriot, and the Soviet

section which was then known as the Espionage

Section had a

case going on in.

Mr, Wallach. That was Branigan's section?

Mr. Cotter. Branigan's section.

And I believe the case at that time was assigned to be::

Turner.

Mr. Wallach.

He was headquarters supervisor.

Mr. Cotter. Yeah, but at the same time, Castio had leo:

involved in - with the Fair Play for Cuba

ar. ilallach, You mean Oswald had been

involved.

Mr. Cotter.

Excuse me, Oswald had seen involved with the

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Fair Play for

Cuba: Committee in New or leans/

'and 'therefore the

case, a corollary interest hala by our Bection, Nationalities

Intelligence, and by our particular superviaor, was Lambert

Anderson, who was supervising the Cuban aspects of 1:.

12444

And so some of the mall that would come in under Oswald's

name would be routed to Nationalities Intelligence whenever there

was a possible Cuban interest. ',

Mr. Mallach, Mr. Anderson, Lambert Anderson, falily

familiar with Cuban operations, and I use that term loosely, in

general, was he familiar with Cuba, or was he just soncone

doing the job?

Mi. Cottor.

le was fairly new at the time, and young.

had. only come into the Bureau within the past year, I think,

"year or two I think maybe. I wouldn't consider him an export

on Cuba, but he did have this case.

Mr. Wallach, Well, let me ask two questions; then 1'11

go back to my queation as to what happened on the day of the

assassination.

Did the Bureau have any high level sources within the i..:

#"lay for Cuba Committee, the FYCC?

Mr. Cotter. I guess the answer to that rould be no. lu..

Ithe

when

Fair Play for Cuba Committee for a tine was assigned to : :

it first got started.

Mr, Wallach. Have you heard the nane Vincent 100?

MI. Cotter. Vincent lee.

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Mr. Wallach.

'TI belleve he was

"the president of it at the

MANSO

time of the assassination

"'or' maybe Theodoro Lee, Maybe I'm

confuaad.

MI.. Cutter, well, the big gun in the fair play for cuba

Conmittee, I know when I had 1t, was alguy by the name of labor,

Robert Tabor, and there was a fallow namad albson. Are you

familiar with Bigson's name?

Mr. Wallach, Yeah, Gibson left and want over to Europe

somewhere.

MI. Cotter. Yeah.

10

11

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iE

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21

2%

2°

24

25

in contacted

and he

was Bort ob

Bource

Mr. Wallach, Do you know whether the Bureau had any hig,

level - I think your anawer was no, they did not have any

high level sources.

MI.. Cotter, No, we didn'e have any high level sourcos.

Mr. Wallach. Do you know if the CIA did at the time

of the assassination?

Mr. Cotter.

Gibsono & Chink biu

timencibson wasspretty suupsee

che medical, circles:

Mr. Wallach, I think that the nare of the person I a

thinking of is V. I. Lee.

Mr. Cotter, I do romenber the two principal authors.

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Tabor was

aid

17141

HIt was possible it

2

waS L00.

3

Mr. Wallach. Vincent T! lee was in the New York Office.

Mr. Cottors He was one of the chief officers of the fair

5

Play for Cuba Committee.

Mr. Wallach. I think he was president.

Mr. Cotter. Well, it's possible, but he wasn't a source.

Me. Hallach. Did you over hear that he was a CIA man?

Mr. Cotter. Uh-uh. It would surprise me if he was.

10

Mr. Wallach, Wo have some documontation on what I would

11

call & mild COINTELPRO against the Fair Play for Cuba Conmiteue.

12

Mr. Cotter. That'a true.

1:

As a matter of fact, I remenbor handliny sone of the mall

14

lon that. The Bureau did try to promote sone dissension withi::

¡the Fair Play for Cuba Committee because both the CP, the

Communist Party, and the Socialist Workors Party were strenuously

16

17

striving to get control of this, and the Bureau was tryiny to

18

promote this rivalry, and the New York Office, with Bureau

19

headquarters approval, and perhaps even at our direction ..!

wouldn't swear who instigated thu idea -- Lue we did have ..:

20

21

anonymous letter propared directed - 1 forget which

faction,

directed it against the other, but it was an effort to exploi:

22

22

this ill-fecling, and I think it centered around in particula:

24

sone woman named Green, bertha reen or sonething like that, whi

tried to make something

of the fact that she was tryiny to

25

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use the Fair: Play fat

Cuba comittee not for its own beat

Interests, but sor the learants of the swa.

MI. Wallach, Do you recall any other COINTELPRO type

4

Б

6

efforts againat the FPC except that one?

MI. Coteer. No, that's the only one.

Mr. Kallach. Are you aware that the ClA was sunning extensio

7

COINTELPRO type operations against the fair Play for Cuba

8

Committoa?

MI. Cotter. No. It doesn't surprisa me, but I didn'e

10

know of any.

11

Mr. Wallach. Turning back, now, to -

12

No. Coster. The fale Play for Cuba Committeo, I might aúii,

12.

d1d come upon -- I mean, thore was a lot of 111-feeling añons

14

the top leaders, and it did become ineffective because of

15

" leadership sivalries, and I know the bureau, whether rightly

or wrongly, we always felt we had something to do with this

16

17

Dy this little COINTELPRO effort.

18

MI. Wallach. Let me ask you thia. Going to the visis shi

Oswald made to Mexico City.

19

Mr. Corter. Right.

20

So. Wallach, Where ho was in contact with the sovie: and

21

2P

Cuban diplomatic estabilahments.

27,

24

Mr. Cotter. Right.

MI. Hallach, When there was a correspondence from cha

25

cin, I guess, fron the Loyat which indicated that Oswald kas

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in contact with

180. estab

llahmentaland that he in fact, in

tupattnt.i

the soviet establishment had bean in contact with someone named

Telete.

Kostikov, does that mean anyching, to your t

MI. Cotter, No, I don't remambar, äny names. The only thirs

I recall about that is there

were

couple of pleces of mati.

I recall only one specitically?

which

Came across my desk when

I was number one man '*:.:

It was one'of these things, thai was

captioned Oawald ISR and maybe IRS-Cuba, and it montloned thu

tact that Oswald had been in Mexico Cley and had been in touch

with the soviet and Cuban embassios, and it was being routed

to Nationalitles:Intelligence because of the Cuban contact, di

I just remember seeing that plece of mail. It was only

few

"days before the assassination. That's why it reyistered with

me.

10

11

12

13

14

15

1€

17

1₴

= 3

20

2:

2P

24

25

MI. Wallach. Did the bol at that time have an assassin

capability in the United States?

Mr. Cotter. You're talking about Cuban Intelligence?

MI. Wallach. Yeah.

¡I. Coster. It would be strictly speculative, I mean, nu

didn't have any hard information.

Ar, lailach. I think we were told au a brietiny chat civi

I was

one operation - I don't know the date. I maj have been

In cho carly '60s, at least no carlior chan '62, lator, where

tho

Dol was running out of Now lork assassination decempes at.

some of the Anti-Castro leaders.

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Do you hi

recollection of that?.

wont done recall any, you know, speckrie

44° 1444-204

Wear y

"the Bureau got Involved" in whare we were exploring

Can war.

that particular typs shing, I mean, we vere generally avare,

К022

you know, Just in terms of potential, but 1 don'e recall any par

tIcular Cases or information regarding Cuba, andefforts to

assassinato in the Unitüd States.

Mr. Hallach, All right, turning to the time of the

assassination, do you recall what was your involvement in any

investigation, what do you remembor observing, whother there

were meetinga or anything like that going on?

MI. Cotter.

Meetings, you're talking about within the

Bureau?

No. Wallach. To decide what investigative techniques -

I'm sorry, to docide on what investigative stratesy would be use

in the investigation of tho assassination of President Kennedy?

Me. Cotter, I did not attend any policy meetings within

the bureau on that type of thing.

Mr. Wallach, Here you ever asked ..

is. Cotter. The only thiny i ray have done, and l'm

sure everybody in the Domestic Intelligence in one part or

another got involved in this case helping out, doing naine

checks or soneching, or helpiny wich memos, and I am sure tha:

alony the way I probably - I du renember helping scokes and

Lenihan handle certain projects, mostly file reviews, but 1

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## Page 35

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cartainly;

any meetings that would

have been held;

that

uld hava been

focused in the Espionage

Section.

Mr: Wallach. Were there'

ever any meetings that you recall

!r.A5.

where there were discussions

to whether or not the Cubans had

"Te:

been Involved in the assassination of President Kennedy?

Mr. Cotter.

No."'I don't recall at all. I would say no.

Mr. Wallach. Do you know if that posalbility was investi

gated?

Mr. Cotter.

well, I can't even say that for sure, no, i

can't.

Mr. Hallach.

le havo here an article that was picked f

by the New Orleans Timog-Picayune on September 9, 1963, which

think has recently been in the press again. I will caadie

portiondos it to you. It says "Prime Minister Fidol Castro

turned up today at a reception at the Brazilian Embassy in

I Havana and submitted to an impromptu interview by Associated

PIess: Correspondent Daniel Arthur."

Now, we have been told by ClA experts that Castro giviri

intervier at that time was somewhat unusual.

Would you agree with that?

Mr. Cotter. Yes.

Mr, Wallach. And it was also unusual that hu would jo:

reception at the Brazilian embassy.

Mr. Cottor. What's the date here?

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## Page 36

ap-

C.

TOP SECRET

1

₴

Mr. Hallach. : Saptember 991963:

MI. Cotter. Uh-huh.

3

Mr. Wallach. And the first paragraph of the article says,

4

*Prima Minister Castro said Saturday night U.S. Leaders would

5

be In danger if they helped in any attempt to do away with

6

leaders of Cuba." Then it goes on from thare.

7

Do you recall ever aeding that article or hearing that

8

statement from Castro?

9

10

Mr. Cotter. No, I don't. In retrospect that certainly

Jooks like a pointed signal, doesn't it.

11

Nr. Wallach. It does, and for reasons of the neazilian

12

Embasay, does take on significance becauso some of the braiai...

12

contacts were being made.

14

16

was anything brought to your attention that any attempta

[were being made on Castro at that time?

16.

Mr. Cotter. No.

1'7

Mr. Wallach. You see, what I'm trying to do is make d

15

distiaction between the blustery statements that Castro was

i laaking generally about how everybody was tryiny to yet ris

¿ol him, and a specific throat ayainst the President, and ho

continues on in odying "We are propared to fight them and noir.

2P

fin xind, United States leaders should think that if they i?

22

aidiny torIorib: plans to eliminate Cuban leaders, they cheuo.::

will not bo saie."

25

Now, copies of this - in fact, a copy of this article, :

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• CAxap 702.

. ",

tron the New Orleans Times-ploayune, but, the same statements

vere sent up by Clark Anderson I think on tho 27th or 28th of

November, and he thought there was something to them.

Do you recall any of this ever being brought to your

attention?

Mr. Cotter. No, I. don't:.

Mr. Wallach. Doyou recall at any timo ever seeing any

memorandums or instructions that Cuban sources be contacted to

sco if thore was any Cuban involvement in the assassination of

Prosident Kennedy?

Mr. Cotter. Well, that's what I was running shrough my

mind when you read that article. If it had come to our atten:i

If it had any -- you know, 1f this articlo had been soutod tu

us, that would have been a typical reaction by headquarters, to

instruct the key field offices handling Cuban matters to alert

their sources and ba aware, you know, be particularly aware of

anything that

might indicate an assassination attempt, but the:

was no such communication, to my knowlodge, ever sent out fro...

headquaiters.

No. Wallach. If they were sent out, in all likelihood :::

probablj would have known about 1t?

Mr. Cotter. Yos, I think I would have. It's - that w:"

have been a normal way of handling this kind of chiny.

dr, Wallach, Do you know who roached a decision as to :.

investigation that would be conducted because from the docune:.:

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## Page 38

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pond

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we reviewed,

- talking figuratively

ever pressed the button

at

the

Bureau saying we've got to

Investigate the possibility of whother Cube, or there was

Cuban involvement in the assassination of President Kennedy.

Do you know who made the decision really not to push that

6

button?

Ni. Cotter. No, I don't.

8

MI. Wallach, Would you agree that the button really wasn'

pushed?

10

11

Mr. Cotter. Well, yeah. In retrospect, 1 - there was

vory Ilttle emphasia on that from what I saw on the

12

investigating possible Cuban Involvement.

13

MR. Wallach. What was the amphaais on?

14

Mr. Cotter. Well, you'd have to talk to the fellows thu:

15

were running the case, but, I mean, the enphasts was highly

16

diverted. They were investigating painstakingly every damnei

17

lanyle they could think of, but this particular phase, I don't

Irecall any great stress being placed on it, or any stress at

19

1all, actually,

20

Nr. Wallach, Do you know why?

21

I mean, here we have a sicuation where che documents rati.':

24

that

senior Bureau officials were aware of CIA attempts agaito:

¡Castro, and a specific Castro threat back, and thore was soni

24

hother additional information.

25

No. Cotter, Hold, it looks like two and two today, bu:

TOP SECRET

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## Page 39

TOP S-CRET

apparently it didn't look tiko two and

two then. They just

didn't put it together, or I am not'awaro of it if they did.

Mr. Wallach.. You're not aware one way of another 11 they

did put it together and made a docision not to follow it up?

MI. Cotter. Yes, thatlä true, or maybe they did follow it

up.

to .

WAFD A FAUL

A30 8 119 S91009, 3f., Matterotion, DC.3000)

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But whatever, it did not come to my attention.

Mr. Wallach, I showed you before a copy of a cablegram

dated 11/25/63 to the Director from Logat, Mexico City. It is

No. 182 and 183. The paragraph on the fourth page, the bottom

paragraph, says, "Ambassador hore feels Soviets much too

sophiscicated to participated in direction uf assassination o:

President by subject, but thinks Cubans stupid anough co have

participated in such direction, even to extent of hiring subjo.:

If this be the case, it would appear likoly that contract would

have been made wich subject in U.S. and purpose of hia trip

to Mexico was to set up a getaway route. Bureau may desire co

give consideration to polling all Cuban sources in U.S. in

effore to confirm or refuto this theory," And chen as I showi:

you this document before, there is a line drawi to that porti.

ot the jocunent which says, "yive consideration to polling

all Cuban sources," and then I think you said i: was your

handwriting: "Not desirable. Would

serve to promote tunois.

I wundes if you sucall anything about that.

MI: Cotter, I don't recall it row, but that is definito::

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## Page 40

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my handwriting yes

I don't recall making that comment or reading this particular

conmen casion, but st ta my nandustango

Ms. Wallach. Do you recall'aver being told that on the

day of the assassination a cubana airfines with no passengers

aboard walted ¿ivo hours In Mexico City and fier to Havana?

184046

?.w.

Mr. Cottor. Come again. I missed that.

Me. Wallach, Were you ever made aware of any unusual

$

Cuban alriines activity following the assassinacion of President

Kennedy from Moxico City to Havana?

10

11

12

MI. Cotter. No.

Mr. Wallach, Were you aver aware that one known Cuban

13

14

traveled from Tampa at the time the President was there, ind

¡thon ended up 1ns Mexico City, and was the only passanger on a

¡Cubana Airlines flight Irom Mexico City to Cuba some two o

15

16

17

three days after the assassination?

Mr. Cotter. No, I don't have any recall on that either.

Mr. Hallach. Were you ever informed of any conversatio::

1a

any intelligence information that the CIA picked up from :::

13

20

intercepts in Mexico City that seened unusual about the cui

2:

embassy or Cuban consulate there?

Mr. Cottor. If I had, it has slippod my memory, I doa!:

2%

recall it now.

There was

a vast anount of mail coming in from a li: u:

different sources, and you know, it is posgibla someching is

25

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included," but I don't racall It today.

ME. Wallach.

*, Do sou recall that thero was a point in timo

when there was a Nicaraguan who was alloging that Oswald had

received $6500 in cash

at the Cuban embassy?

I'11 show youa memo here - I don't think there's any

indication that it went to you.

Mr. Cotter. I do not recall this, no.

Mr. Wallach. Do you recall any discussions -

Mr. Cotter. Incidentally, on roviowing this cablegran

from Mexico that you just showed me where I made this written

commont about not desirable to poll all Cuban sourcos in the

U.S., I have just been thinking about it. a think 1 would ai..

the same deciaion today, In other words, based on my knowled.

of what was available to the Bureau in turms of sources in thi

U.S. and so forth, I don't think it would have been wise to

just go out on a shotgun type approach and approach 100 dif-

ferent people, or 50 or whatever it might be, to ast them tos

information which they would not havo been in a position to !!:

In ochei words, you know, the Bureau just didn't -- it we tu

one us two real highly placed sourcos who night have bee::

privy to this type of sensitive information, I chink it no::

Pp i have been a good idea, bus the Bureau didn't have shose kinds !

ut suurces in the bai.

21

Ms. Halluch. Well, to che extent of your knowledge, it

24

didn't.

25

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## Page 42

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OP SECRET

Me. Cotter.

That strue.

Me. Wallach,

"But 'at least in the assassination attempte

we documentod, they had people close enough to Castro to:kill

him.

Mr. Cotter, The Bureau did, you say?

Mr. Hallach, No, but tha Bureau was aware that there

ware parsons in the United States, bo It Marla figures or

whomever, that had high enough level tios.

ME, Cotter, Well, thie auggests all Cuban sources. That

moans all FBI sourced.

Nr. Wallach. Well, do you know if any Cuban aources

wore pollad

Mr. Cottor. No.

is. Wallach. Do you know why?

Mr. Cotter, When you say - you mean fal assets, inforna

sources of information, whatever we might have had?

Mr. Wallach, Right.

Mr. Cottar. No, lidon't know that anybody was ever

polled on the theory that the Cuban embassy in Mexico might

have directed or been involved in the assassination.

Mr. Wallach, Well, not specifically whether there was

any cuban involvement in the assassinacion.

FI. Cotter. I

don'e recall. Its possible that was don.,

nue I don't recall it being done.

I chink it is likely that was done, às a matter of fact,

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## Page 43

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but I don't

the details

"Mr. Hallach.

I showed you this cablegram befora which I

Egit :y

read to you that portion of it which says the ambassador here

feels Soviets much to-sophiaticated to participate in direction

of assassination of President, by subject, but thinks Cubans

220AS

#tupid enough to have participated in such direction, even to

extent of hiring subject:

Mr. Cotter. Yeah.

Mr. Wallach. All right, now, just taking that for a

second, do you recall any discussions within the bureau as to

who was directing the investigation in Mexico Cicy? Was it

che Bureau's responsibility or was it ClA's responsibility,

or State Department's, or whose?

Mr. Cotter. I don't think I should really comment on tha:

because this would have been something worked out in Braniga:'»

section, or at the Divinion lovel. It would not have had

anything to do I would not have been involved an any

such discussions or decisions.

so I don't know.

I presume the Bareaudid have an agrecr::

with ciA as to what portions we would handle and what porta::

we wouldn't. But I don't know how that agreement trangpired.

Mr. Wallach. Would any investigation in Mexico City oi

any possible Cuban invoivement have been run out of you:

section?

Mr. Cotter. If the Bureau was involved in esploring

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## Page 44

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TOP SECRET

Cuban' Involvement

they

assassination, it would have almost

certainly baon run' out of our, section, yes.

Mr. Wallach.

¡ Do you know of any such investigation?

MI. Cottor. No, no I don't.

MI. Wallach. Did you have any contact at all, or did you

respond to any requeste at all from the Warren Commission? Do

you recall working on any of their requeats? I'm not asking

you specifically which one.

Mr. Cotter. Yeah.

I think I probably did, but I don't recall particularly.

I know I had some matters about the Warran Commission

came i.

lony atror tie assassination. I renomber jugt wishin tic

last joul, a year or tho prior to the time l raticod toon ti

Ill, she matter cane up involviny the Warren Connission which

I harulei, it was sort of a review of bureau files mostl:.

'it, liallach, What was that matter?

ai. Colter. this

was & - let me recall nur, particula:

what it hai to do with a ronor that oswald did been a it

informit, ine lie ronson 1 gut involvou vas lectuse nondi

sation to doclassily that portion on tie barren Conningior ta o

Lique li hau ben caassited toy secret, and the question in.

arisin ay sonebody offhand I really don't rocall who -

ag to nuthor it could be declassified and rulersed, and I

was at that time the Bureau's classification officer, so they

sent it to me to handle. So

I do senember reviewing the files

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## Page 45

TORS CRIT

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to Boe what documents wiFe oly a

and do forth, and at

I recall, wo decided to declaaally 1t. It was a rumor that had

originated with some newspaperman in Texas, and it had. been

relayed through the Attorney General of Toxas, as I recall,

fallow by the name of wagner.

Mr. Wallach, Wagner Cars. "

Mr. Cotter. Wagner Carr, yeah.

Mr. Wallach. That was, I think, in early '64,

ME. Cottar, Yeah, but at the time I reviewed it, this

was/llke '74.

Mr. Wallach, Did you at any time, prior to the public

disclosure, have any knowledge that Oswald had left a nose

at the Dallas field offico of the FBI before the assassina: in:

MI. Cotter. No. The firat I learned about that was ir.

the newspapers.

Mr. Wallach. Where was Stokes? Is it John Stokes?

Mr. Cotter. John Stokes.

Mr. Wallach. What was his position back in '63?

is. Cotter. He was a supervisor in the espionage sei:::,

one of the butter ones, more experienced ones.

Mr. Wallach, Which area did he handle?

Mr. Cotter, 1 don't know specifically, I know he hun..

Suviut cases.

Mi. Wallach, Soviot cases?

NE. Cotior. No, une phase. No, they broke them down, !::

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## Page 46

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TOP SECRET

know, one fellow would handle

repatrlots," and somebody else

5. Ni

would handle innigrant his dee

and somabody also would handle embassy

or U.N. mission and 80 forth."' Stokes may not have beon assigned

this typa of case originally, but ha may have been put on it

because he was considerod a töp notch agent.

(Pause)

Mr. Wallach. Do you recall generally any discussions withi

the Bureau about the Warren Commiasion and how it was

perceived?

I might state for the record that Mr. Hoover's handwritsen

comments make it fairly cloar that le vicked the warren

commission us an advorsary, and he didn't lire the idea os

anyone

Mr. Cottor, Well, you seo, that's a guescion. I don't

have any official information. I can't give you any hard

information. This type of thing would have been talked abod!

amongst supervisors and officials of our division. I an sure

that I engaged, you know, that I either took part in or lister:

to conversations on the subject, I was generally aware of i

fact. that ir. Hoovar regaried then with a great deal of

wariness and skepticism, and it was my general impressio:.

based on what I saw and heard, that he wanzed to treat shor

arm's lenyth and very officially, you kron, ind not get cou

chunny, as it were.

But i don't know of any particular aispuces. The Burrin'.

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## Page 47

TOTA (RANt 208)

• в ВДАрі

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relations with

seve

agencies were in the same

•category,

you know, in other word hour relations with the Cin were sort

of in that category, They were - at loast at Mr. Hoover's

, *

level, lo treated them with resorvations, let's say. He was

very leery that the Bureau's interest would be damaged and so

forth.

Mr. Wallach. Do you recall at somo point after the assassl-

nation Mr. Hoover or the Bureau stated that Owwald was the

assassin:and that he acted alone?

Mr. Cotter. How the Bureau did that, or when thoy did

that?

Mr. Wallach. Do you recall that happening?

MI. Cotter. I don't recall any particulara, no.

MI. Wallach. Have you ever heard the phrase "don't end.

the Bureau"?

MI. Cotter. Oh, yes, yes. It's halfway a joke.

Mr. Wallach, Well, in a lot of these memoranda, Mr. Hour!

refers to the actions of the agents involving the Oswald

natter as having embarrassed the Bureau, Baying that if tir;

had bech nore diligent, etc., they would have been able to

prevent that.

Mr. Cotter. It was an underlying theme in your

Burt.

careor that inything that enbarrassed the Bureau you were :

to yet really highly disciplined on becauge of Mr. Hoove:':

attitude.

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Mr. Wallach! Let

ma "aak

you

a question,

'and I don't want

you to speculate, but lt you' are aware of any similar circum-

stances, or have been told about certain atatements made by

'

Mr. lloover that later had to be supported by official research,

etc., and the Bureau, for example - that one time, for example

heccame up to the Hill and sald the cost of crime was $11

million or $22 million, and that had to be documented. But in

any event, what I'm trying to got at is the FBI had a securit:

case on Loe llarvoy Oswald prior to the assassination.

Mir. Cottor, Right.

ir, Wallach, And had interviewed him on at least two

occasions.

Mr. Cutter, leah.

sr. Wallach. And had other information on him.

Now, was there any discussion that you are aware of a

to whether or not the Bureau would be blamod for tho assass:...:-

tion of President Kennedy, or B, if the investigation turne:.

up other information on Oswald that the Bureau itself had w

uncovered about any contacts that he may have had with thr

suvices us with the cubans, that this would put the buread.

i airly bad light?

Do jou recall any discussions?

ir. Cotter. to, I don't recall inythimy alony that :.

is, I don't recall anything by either the peopie an ei

Incolligence Division or otherwise, where and great inos.

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LANAs 7021

thought was given, or discussion

segarding' the' Bureau's

culpability in the thing, I moan, & know there was a big

discussion and an inspoction which took place, and some people

got censured, and burned.

Mr. Hallach, That was Galo's inspection?

Ms. Cotter. Yoah, because of tho fact that in retrospect

they were deemed not to hava acted proporly or thoroughly

enough, and there was a lot of discussion about whether thei

woro really guilty of anything remiss. I know thas throughout

the burcas thore was some sympathy for the agents who had

buen, at loast many of the ayents who wore burned bocanco it

was folt that -and I shared this feuliny • hat some of

then were, or had done what was logical and everychiny, bü:

they were boing punished because of the bad publicity rusi.:

chan because of any innato deficiency on their port.

For example, there was, I think one of the biy things

contered around the fact that whether Oswald was on the su..r

security inuex, a big issue was made about that.

MI. Wallach. Excuse ine

for just a socond.

(jause)

Hi. Cotter, I think one of the contill thing: that

sale was looking into when ho was ordored to

review thils

change to tid responsibility and whatnot, was whothor din:.

nas on the security indus ur nog to hou not been rodorter :.

fo: the securisy index. Inu again, you are familiar sis.

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FRont (Aeld 202)

that waB.

It was a lit of people who would be considered

da Moon

dangerous in thaas of an amergency::

ґ7.1

Mr. Wallach. I understand, but it 1s also my understandi

also that under the dissomination procedures at that time, that

that would not have resulted in dissemination to the Secret

Service.

tat me . I have not myself recently looked at these

documents, Mi. Cotter, so let me take a look aè chom with you.

and I want you to undoratand that most of the things we have

talked about here today are still classified in one form or

another, and I hope you will treat then at such.

Mi. Cutter, I certainly will.

Mrw Wallach, This involves an individual named Gilbert.

Lopez Rodrigues, and I will ask you to take d look at that

document.

(The Witness reads the document.)

Mr. Cotter. Okay.

No. Wallaca, Mow I will ask you to sou this memorandum.

(The Witness reads thu docunent.)

Mr. Lotter, Uh-huh.

ir, kalluch, Do you recall at any tina that name codi..:

your attention, or the fast that he had been the only

passenger on the plane?

de, cotlai. 100 not recall it, no.

Ar. Hallach. Where is John Stokos now, do you know?

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• Mr. Cotter

"don' tiknow;that"

althor, no.

I-think he rotirod "in the late 50s and tho last I hoard

of him he had not ..thia la several years after he had

.*=

retired him. Ho was fully retired. .

In other words, he never

went back to work.

Mr. Wallach. Right.

Mr. Cotter. It certainly is interesting, isn't it.

Mr. Wallach. Do you recall -= we do have some other

documents that I'm not going to show thom to you, whore in

essence the Bureau found out some vory strange things abour him

and then auld, well, there's nothing we can do about it bees:

he is in cuba.

NI. Cotter, ABout LOPOI?

Mi. Wallach. You.

And the intelligence information

they received from CIA was that he was playing dominoes in

Cuba, which seems fairly strange under the Castro regime, you

will admit.

Mr. Coster. Well, didn't the Bureau conduct inquiris

in the U.S, about his background and who he was?

Ma. Wallach, Yes, and they found out that he had coro

over from Cuba, I think recently bofore, a coupie of cour

before, à yoar or 3o before the dosassination, was involv

cortain EPCC activitios in the lange unapoor, bad allegedl,

waiting - and again I'm goiny on my memory of those duck:

vi abour a month or so ago - waiting for a phone call froi

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Cuba from one of.h

ves

kand he was

going to go back to

Cuba, and'

this phone cAr was c

MA 270109-

Has coming at about the time tha

President himself was visiting the Tampa rogion, and than goiny

down to Miami to address the Cuban refugees down thare, and he

went over to Dallas, and subseguently ho did receive a phone

call, and even though he was penniless, he managed to end up in

Mexico City, and was:the only passenger on a Cubana alriinos

flight, an unschedulod flight from Mexico City to Cuba.

Mr. Cottor.

Well, that has ald thu carmarks of being

highly - what -- do you happen to know who in the Bureau

conducted these inquirica?

i, Wallach. Stokes, I think, was the special supervis:

I yuess, Yeah.

Mr, Cotter. I forgot, was that captioned IS, Cuba? or

ISR?

Mr. Hallach. IS, Cuba.

MI. Cotter.

Yeah. A copy went to wannall I noticed.

Dr, Wallach, I realize again this is hindsight, but to:

exavie, the records don't show that Marina Osraid was eve:

snort a picture of Lopez, which the Bureau has, or even ist.

1: she'd ever seen che guy before.

Mi, Colter. Well, fron what you've shown no, it luois

lixe it desurved a lot of investigation.

ar. wallach. Did you ever

talk to sullivant of anyor+

elge from the Domestic Intelligence Division abou: why they .:

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decided on the Investigatlva atrategy they decided on?

MI. Cotter. 2No.

As I say, I wasn't involved in that

phaso of it.

Mr. Wallach, I'll read you the portion of the report.

This is from one of the people that was interviewed.

Thore was talk about Lopez having been at hig rosidence

somotima waiting for a telephone call from Cuba which was very

important. It was understood it was all dependent upon his

getting the "go ahead order" for him to loavo the United

Statos.

lie indicated he had been refused travel back to his

nativo Cuba before, and it also goos on into the fact that lu

was totally penniless, in fact, he owed pouple money, So it

is neither here nor thore if you don't remenber his nane.

Mr. Cotter, io.

ir. Wallach. One other, do you recall anytime after ti

Warren Corniasion ended its inquiry that thure were any rov::

of the FBI's investigation of the assassination, general rev:

sir. Cotter. No, I don't have any information along =l..:

line.

Mo, Wallach, You are aware that the sage was kept

open.

Mr. Coiter. I am sure it was. It is probably still

open today, isn't it?

Ar. Wallach. Whore were you of what was your positio:

in February of 19677

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Chlo jot Nationalitiea

Intelligence,

whion.had,.cu

-.1:

ME. Wallach. I'm soing to give you a bries factual

history of an evant that transpired in

1067, and then show you

one or two documents that relatedto it.

In February 1967 it was

callod. to tha Bureau's attention

that -- well, I'1l give you the exact factual history -

Drew Pearson talked with a lawyer named Edward Pierpoint

Morgan, whose name you may have heard of.

Nr. Cotter, I've heard of him.

Nr, Wallach. He was a former agent at one time, I belie:

in the late '40g.

Me. Cottor. Right,

MI. Wallach. And Pearson went to the Chief Justice Ki:

and told him that Morgan had a client, and 1 am quotiny noi

from a letter from kowley, who was head of the Secret.serve?:.

to MI. Hoover, dated February 13, 1967, who was in the undern:: 1:

and according to him, that Bobby Kennedy had orgarized a gic:

that went to Cuba to kill Castro, that all nore killed o!

imrisoned except one person who escaped, and subsequentl:

Castro decided to utilize the same procedure to sill Procs.:

kenncaj, and that he hired oswald to du the job.

In any event, what happened after that was that lit i

Justico advisod learson to have dorgan yo suo the sure :

Morgan said he couldn't because hu wasn'e on gooù sermon::..

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the Directo

facti

I belleve, he was on the no-contact

11ot. He went to see Rowiey, Rouley never mot with Morgan,

for reasons that 1:at1ll can't myself understand, and then

by letter datod February 13, 1967, sent thia letter to the

Bureau.

some two daya lator, a letter went back to Rowley from

the bureau atating thank you for your letter, and then "In

connection with the allegation that a Castro conspiracy was

involved in the assassination of proaident Kennedy, our

investigation uncovered no evidence indicating Fidel Castro

or officiala of the Cuban Govornment wore involved with

Lee Harvey Oswald in tho assassination of President Kennedy."

And it yues un and says, "The Bureau is not conductin

an; investigation regarding this matter."

Let ne show you this lutter dated February 15, '67.

is. Cotter. Okay.

(The witness reads the document.)

ilt. Cotter. All right.

So, badlach, was this allegacion over discussed wich

:

you?

ir. Cotter.

No.

ir. dallach. In '672

No. Cotter, ile.

Ax, kulluch, nere

you ever

asked whether or not the in: 1

had conducted an extonsive investijation? 1 resiiro that ta:

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It Into Oswald, and see that there were, no oswald Cuban

connections, but were you ever asked whether or not the Bureau

had conducted an investigation with respect to the possibility

of Cuban involvement in the assassination at that time? Do

you remember it? do you remember the subjoct coming up?

Mr. Cotter. No, I don't, wuh-uh.

Mr. Wallach. Do you know why that letter would have beer.

handlod out of the Criminal or:General Investigative Division

and not out of the Intelligence Division?

Mr. Cotter. That I don't know either. No a matter o:

fact, this is what kind of bothers me, You haven'e asked

Liot.

question but I'm sure you ara aware of the fact that the

invostigation of the whole Uswald casu was a dual sau, l.:

of it was conducted by Intelligence Division and part ly

the, at that time it was known i guess as the Investigati::

Division.

sr. Wallach. Mr. Hosen's division.

:Ir. Cotter. Mr. Royon's division, the Criminal vivis.

in eliuct, anu tollons

like Shroder

and Raupauch, and a ii..

nanes rouge were the chief supervisors, bick Rugie, who ::

not special igent in charge sonoplice.

is, Hallach. I think it is out on the wost soast du.:

iro coctor. 1 chink it is buttalo. 1 just read su.

justini;.

is, wallach, I snink you're signe, I think it is!?

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## Page 57

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Mav: Cotter. "Anyway, "Just,"

I'couldn't comment intelligently

3:20.30

on what phases wore" handled by them and what phases, but it

was my general improssion that they handled the bulk of the

Investigation. He wore conducting those aspects of it that

had socurity angles, contacts with the Soviets and Cubans,

etc.

=.

ТАПДВ Ф

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2104001 511008.58-4996705991957.

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Ms. Wallach. What, to your best recollection, was the

investigation that was conducted by the Domestic Intelligence

Division?

Me. Cotter, I really couldn't commont intelligently or.

that to the extent of that, or what the criteria was or

where the boundaries were between us and vivision G.

Mr. Wallach. If you say that the investigazion hod bec:.

divided up -

Mr. Cotter. Yeah.

Mr. Wallach. Between the two, and from my review of thi

documents, it seens that if anything the Domestic Intelligeno.

Division just sort of merely retraced the information that ::

nud already on Oswald in the security file, to see it there

was --

ni. Cotter. Well, maybe l'm wrony on this, but 1 chiar

the maid, when it came

in iricially, wont to bivision o. ir

other words, they wore the prime ones

in charge, and then ta! :

nould route to us anyuhing nita socurict camiricazions.

Is that true?

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Mr. Hallach..: Mr. Sulllvan

tifled

MI. Cotter.' I mean, there must be momos written on this

as to what the linos of jurisdiction aro between these two

Divisions.

MI, wallach. No've asked for them.

Mr. Cotter: That must have been one of the chial areas os

diacussion Involuing Sullivan and the Director and all of the

people involved.

MI. Wallach. I think the Bureau has told us they don't

have any such momos.

Nt, Cotter, Really?

ür, Wallach, In any avant, I've taken you up to the iü:.

now where we have a letter going back saying the Bureau

will not do anything further on the Morgan allegation.

:15. Cotter. Right.

Mo. dallach. Even though the Oswald case is open.

kI. Cotter. Right.

ki. Wallach. subsequently, at President Johnston's

directire -- he found

ouL

about morgan's allegations -..

dirucied chrough beloden that the bureau incervicn Edwar

Fieryaat Morgan. That intorvivy has conducted by ayent

uf the iashington Field Office on Murch 20, 1967. Ayain, ::

is conducted through the Investiyative Division, not thro..

tne incelligence Division.

song other things, Mr. Morgan detailed corzain of i.

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Устт (1198 207) У₴

plots and then went on to say - he talked about his clients

who at that time the Bureau knew to bo Mafla figures involved

In the CIA assassination plots.

These participated in the

project, whom he representa, and that was the project against

Castro, develoyed through feedback information that would iden:!

Fidel Castro'a counterassaasins in this country who could very

wall be considered suspects in such a conspiracy, and

continuing, he said his clienta were aware of the identity

of sone individuals who came to the United States for this

purpose, i.e., assasalnating President kennedj, ind he under-!

stuud that two such individuals were now in the stato of

ilew jersey.

20 you recall that information over being brought to

your decention?

MI. Cotter. io, I don'e, no.

is. Wallach, Do you know why it would not have been

brought to your attention?

HI. Cotter. Well, it's a little had to explain. Ir

1967 I nau nothing rhatsoever to do with the sonald invest!:

tion. in lace, at to joint did l have any direct cacolveno.

ro ballach. Doi you did have a lot to do rich cuban

matters.

ir, coccur, 1 bas the section chiot of cho ime that

mab mahally Cubc Investigations, rigi:

If idilach, du can you think of any reason why this

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dm..

c..

• 1900000

least wouldn't have"

beon brought to your attention, the fact

that a specific allegation was being made, and the other

senior Dureau officials knew that Morgans clients were

involved in those assassination attempts, and they also had

been getting foedback intelligence information

fIom Cuba for -

Mr. Cotter. Well, if whoever read that memo, somebody

at some point along the line, somebody must have decided - this

that you wore just reading from the Washington Fleld, a letto:

or some kind of conmunication?

Mr. Wallach. Yeah, it was a blind memorandum that las

furnished to the White House in response to the Morgan

interview.

MI. Cotter.

wedd, when that came in fion Washington!!

sonebody had to be rusponsible for signing off for the falo.

In other words, whoever signed off for the file took thi

responsibility that that infornation had been fully acced on.

Mr. Wailach. Have you ever seen in your years with thi

Bureau a cover sheet that says eyes only on it?

ir. Coster. I know this somm, but 1 dun't recall tir

Wureau over using it on intornal docurents, no.

äto basrach. And also stampedi secret?

Mr. Coster. No.

ar. sairan. 1 night any that was only she ineoni.,

inter iron tr. bowley, ween gave inforracion that tas i.

available to him from i nortelligence sourco.

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Mr. Cotter. Yes. "

Mr. Wallach. In March of 1967 there is a Drew Pearson

column which I don't believe appeared in the Washlngton paper:

which talks about a CIA plot to assassinato President Kennedy

I'm BOrry, lt talka about a CIA plot to assassinate Fidel

Castro.

Do you recall that article being brougth to your attentio.:!

at all?

No. Cutter. No, I don't. Could 1 see 1t7

Ar. Wallach. Sure.

(the witness reads the document..)

so, cutter, io, I don't socall it.

Mr. muilach. 1 am goiny to give you these cho memora.

the handwriting and the names is my handwriting, The nams

oi the people, those names wore originally crossed out on

the docunents, and the buraau supplied me with the names, iu

1 want you to just take a look at them and see if they ring

a bell with jou. They are a menorandur. from Wannail to

Sullivan dated March o, '67, and a letter from the directus.

1Ul, to uns recoiney ioneral dated March 6, 1967.

(ran Hitness roacs the docunento.i

lo loiser. This lotter just sumarizes what is in ras

iro indiach, liotsave that's

the Cat.

di. Concei, joan. Yea, okay.

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59

Mr, Wallach, Neive been told that that revlew took placo

ovor a weokend, and that virtually . a lot of people from ti.

section voro called in, an awful lot of peoplo were called ::

to reviaw the files and do the work.

Do you recall participating in that at all?

MI. Cottor, Geo whiz, no, I don't, although if it was

a sectionwide project as you describod -- now, wait a minute.

This 1s Wannall; in 1967 Wannall was - I am trying to think

of whas his role was at that time, his title, what he had

under hin.

liell, okay, l think this changod the whole ballymne not

us far as my commento to the previods quemtions. daban masr.

were not assignod to me aftor

I becamo seotion chios in 19t.

Thuy went to Wannall's section. In other words, they spli:

up in 1969 or late '64, whenever it was, shortly following :..

Doninican crisis, '65 I'm sure it was, about mid-'65, tney

split what had been the Nationalities Intelliyence section 1:

twu Bections, und one of them becane known as the zstin

imuricon section, and Wannali, who hau buen seciion chact a

tubionalieies Inteiliyence tooi ovo: as tlic tatir Ancrioan

ioution Chiof and myself, mo hai been sunber one nan of

mntionalitios Intelligonce, romasned is noccron chiof of

matiomlicios incolliyonce.

"üne Cuban iazäors ient to the dew soctico, the lauin

inerican suction, aiony with inytning in the bessorn heningt

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1

and the Nationalitles Intelligence Sectlon in effect remained

the sane section, minus the Latin American stuff, includiny

Cuba. So thcrefore, like you agked those questions, this

whole thiny about '67 1 would not have scon because i wasn't

involved in any way with Cuba at that timu.

Mr. Wallach, Who became Wannall'a number one man?

7

Mr. Cotter, Guorge Mohr was his number one man for qaii

8

a while, George c. Mohr, and when Wannall got promotedi ui.

9

sulir took over as section chies.

vito Widlaeh, was lohs with you berose?

tlee tottor.

Hong had been d mit otuut ot the dirts.

:: Mcicon mie, an the iutaoholicien Intestacende seettei

17 " 10 6005 davasion of the seceion in two. tn dthet wut..!

:: "oi dt tin: tano ui tho asuaosanation, l euind tubert ni. i

wealg Does now, bunbere decerson was a derartisot dorag

unuer scorye dohr in thar mnin, tie carin merican un.i.

i' dio tau ili aicrieuh uult becane dort ei cia nadlers : :

ii wel Butetl ühed Mhinmideu il peeetled doll thloin iii

ioato tr moind clil dredobls oh lemhlld dut toestielt

:et t d Mdd GlilelGd Eee Gillt Kolll eli

.litiorie dlle. ".

:orid tilde thütteei.d

. con otf lulldel Hoihet lobht dlle t woaledle'ol

a:.;

lee tatee Gttt ted de 'eeie

.:.

utotloMlteG ltEl YolltatHt'llie

•hlde wie deflilodd rgredetottei.

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If there's any statements that you'd like to make on the

record, feel free to do so.

No. Cotter. No, excupt that it may have seemed that

lot of my answers were quite fuzzy and whatnot, I have coopr:..!

to the best of my ability.

MI. Wallach, I think that's true. Thank you very much.

(Whereupon, at 1:00 o'clock p.m., the hearing in the

above-entitled mattor was concluded.

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