MR. HELMS' CONVERSATION WITH LUIS FERNANDEZ ROCHA AND JOSE MARIA LASA OF THE DRE REGRADING THEIR ORGANIZATION'S RELATIONSHIP WITH THE AGENCY.
Originator: CIA
To: MEMO FOR THE RECORD
Document date: 11/15/1962
Document type: PAPER - TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

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2022 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992

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15 NoveRbor 1862

HSKORANDUN FOR THE RECORD

SUBJECT:

Mr. Helng? Conversation

vith Lula Fernardos Rocha

And JOBo HArla LeSs Of the DRE RogardiDE thelr

organization's Relationship with the Agency

TINE AND PLACE:

1500 hours, 13 November 1982, Mr. Balzi"

office.

PERSONS PRESENT:

Mr: HelMs, Lula Fernandez Roche, Josó

Marla Lass, Nastor Sanchoz (allAS

(Nicholas Sylra)

07

I. Ht. Roche statod he santod to sention too thinga

bofaro startlay tho contersation sita

Ar. Holas:

3. He das very sorry about the difficulties

Melch say have beak caused by tho Affurt -X1a1

Herald Herapaper Incidont.

D. He coulrod to thant AT. Holas POr Lle

"doference" and oxprossed his grestont eppraciation

Sor being givon the opportunity to diocuss their

probleu vich Mr. Holno. Mr. Helus roplied that he

fully undarstood and socapted the arplanetlon about

ths nerspapor articla and ho was happy to havo tro

opportunity to decuse tho Agency's rolat10nsa1p

u1th XT. Roche's group.

JuST

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2. Mr. Helms stated ho vas fanillar with the DRi

situation and dosired to sort out

a allahtly distorest

•day of doing bulness. He roallzod there baro bood upo.

and downa in the relationship and that tho Agancy vas

not 11ly waste in abidias by sany of lts connitronto, but

that sany of tho chasgas toro due to factors beyond the

Agency's control. Ho continuad there vero no docialons

as yet mado by tho U.8. Gororanest regarding to suturo

handling of the Castro problos. The prinary ltone being

conaldored at the prosant tlas bots in lew fort and

Washlugton vero the ronoval of the sisallas and borbarg

Iron cuba and on-alte laspection, Ar. Holms fully ro-

al1zod tast tho docisions wulch may cose about at the cos-.

clusion of those nagotiationy 11l not bo dacisions ac-

coptablo to the DRE.. Il a tino coMas when the DRY Iealo

their couras of action la no longor caapatible Mits u.8.

Dolloy, Mr. Eolas panted to sala lala polnt clear, "tho

DRE should bo frank and bonest and so stato 1t."

Ho did

not vant to be devious about our relationubip, and be wasted

to develop tàe relationabip "as a reasonablo colladoration".

3. AT. Holies inforned loche he was changing the Agency

contact for the DRE In Hias1. He sloo stated the sey cos-

tact would bo ablo to cono to lI. Holas for asy clariílestles

SEGRET

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noedod regarding the rolationablp. As for a futuro

operaiional prograa for the DRI, do. Bolas atetod ho pre-

sontly uld not koon what thie sould bo. MI. Rocha atatod

that 10 all honosty do could not guarantoo that undor all.

circunstancos the DRE voild do able to continuo the ro-

1at1onahip, for a chango in U.S, polloy tonard coostatanco

would disor Iron what the DRI bolloves 10 a duty to thels

country and ho an the secrotagy Goneral to bla son this

would sosn a broat in our rolstionahly as they felt they

sust continue fighting Castro In any fora DogalBlo. Ho

did givo Mr. Holma his nord of honor do vould infora bla

contact or dr. Holas when the Dro solt they could so longer

cooperato with the Agoncy bocruBa of the differonce in Duat

they bollored 1n and U.S, polley. Rochs clained they vero

antious to cooperato viti the Agorcy, and 1t vas 10011a2

to thirt that mithout Agency support thay could continua

thalr present levol of activity. Ho in tact stated that 80

to 90 por cent of their actlulty mould coaco 11 Agoney funda

vero discontinued. Thin tould be aulcido, and according to

Rocio this ho did not vant providod a saticlactory arrango

sent could be raschod.

1. At. Lass askod that they could espect rugardiag

thair future orientation and plans. Rocha chisod in and

atsted that this Iãs one of tha difficulties under rhica

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thoy had been porsting; 1.0., not knoxing uhat the plana

Here or what us expected of thou. de added that in

order to diract bis ous organization, ho sust ba auaro al

the direction in which ververe soring before do could sito

tho propor declaions 1n his organization. Ar. Ho las

ansuered to alll toll you the truth and what the score

1s thon to knon It oursolvog". Ho also varnod thes that

whon thio inforsation 1s divulgod, lt nould bo 1a strict-

ost confidenco on priyyi bania aná not lor tue press or

tho post of the outlo corsunlty.. Mi. Holas addod that on

this question ho would be vory honest with then and eithar

toll them: a. I don't kaon; D. I won't toll you; a. I'll

toll you, and sive then the laforantion thoy raquired for

propor orlentstion. Is. Holas raltorated that regarding

this type of Insorsation they must koop:

'sippod ID"" AcosTd-

1ng to Me. Holng theithingo got around 1a the Caban exilo

• to bla.

5. Rogardlag the new contact ix. Solas stated do

wantod to Beloct a san tuo would and could saintala tha

• collaberation he dad outlined, and rould do holpiul and

01 assistanco to the IRI. No aldo statad tsar tale contact

would to resposalble to bia for the roiationehlo. ur.

Rocha statod ho mantad to do the point of contact in the

iritat: :

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DRR and in bla absenco elthor Manuol Balvat of Jose Lans

would be tho altarnato polati of contact.

8. Mr. Holas statod thoro vero tun alexanta he

nould 11k0 to clarily:

a. The synten of kickbacks used by tho dRi.

Roche iran not sandlar with the turn "klckback" but

aflor a abort explanation axplainod that tho DRE

did nox thair sombora to sive a cortala percostage

of their salary dopendiag on that thay can dlord

tOT a gOneral lund Iron taicA the OrgaslAtIOn paya

for such Itors as tha agonoy does not linanco. Ono

of th030

stona 1e publication os "The Cuban Report",

cortain sort 1n latin Aperion (not spocifiad) lor

which the agoncy will sot pag, and a vory laportant

Itesy tàe mupport of somo of their pooplo and familton.

coming out of cubs. Rocha clained this vas voluntary.

B.. Pinzacas--ir. Holma dentred to kaoy 11 thay

kept soes systen of books, Includinslops espences

And SAIATIOS fOr thaIr LAtIn AMOrICAn OpOratIOnS,

and 11 so wùo kopt their books.

Rochs antered they.

did ssep books and addad tàoy and a full tio sosbor

Of the DIl tho vas a tralaed accountant in chargo o1

the departaont of their organization. Hr. Holas

Fr. ..

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suggestad that as financos are a tochaical and

difficult matter to toey clone tabe os, the agoncy

could, 11. Roche so doalred, holp by providias a

financo tochalelaziset up a set o1 books for the

DRB, Roche fully agrood Ulth tho DarIt o1 tuls

8u880st10n.

7. AT. Helas agaln assurod Rocha and Lass thet eith

rogard to the futuro, he gould lot thos xoon as 800n aM

be. Rocha asted boy long

Ar. Helas thought this gould be. it. Holas sisted thie

to sonerhat of a hypothotical question but astiaatod

that the prosont seatings, converaationy, and negotiations

would posalbly tato as long an a south. HI. Belas statod

he realized that allltary operationa and possibly sose of

their propaganda rould depond on our futuro coarso, but

he wanted then to understand that

there will sirays be nood.

sos good, spectfle, detalled Information vaich the DRE CAn

contributo, Accordiag to iT. Boltin, "He nood 11; you can

contribute 1t; se'11 uso 1t." Pr. Holay added do reallzed

there vero slaka larolvod in collocting inforsation, but

ho did not vant socha to alcunderatand tho taluo of 18..

Ar. Holas also cautloned Nocha and lass sot to got impotlent

orer that say appear to bo lack of uno of their leforantion,

but to airo the Agancy a chanco to chock it out.

SEGMEY

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8. Ar. Holse added thore nas ono other polnt of

utsoat inportance, and that van, thet 19 1n tho luturo the

DRE dealrod or antod lo have a press conferenco or dositod

to appear on TY,.

"Let us kaos about 1t".

Mr. Helas etated

so didn't vast to to tuolr hands, and he intendod to deal:

"Ith then an compormible sen, but, "Give us a fair viralaz".

It. He1a8 did not want the DRE to thlak no dosired to toll

thes what they can or can not do, but ho folt 1t vas: 1n

their intorost to get our roaction on such sattors. Mr.

Eelas added, "YOu, Ar. Rocha, are a responsible sau. I

ALl a COMPOLAIble SAn. Lat'a dO DUSIDORO 1I a MatUrA MANDAT. "

Er, rocha fully agreed.

9. It, Rocha than Introducod the subjact of "The Cuban

Report", the bar woekly neolotter. Ho sald the nevalettor

WaS Best to the prOBE, sonItOre, cOngroseTon, the thito

House, nad other people In the U.B. He Mantad to knot boM

Hr. Holas felt sbout this publication. Ar. Holas vanced

to know 11 the Aloney rocalyad too intoll before 1t ad

printed 10 the sanslottor, Ir. Roche anored that all

¡political and ailitary intorantion vas passed to the Agency

beforo 1t vas printed ln tho sonaletter. Mr. Holas ad-

aitied ho had not soid the renslotter end that 1a the

ROAD$ 129

tie DRy coald continue it.

Osco the matter 1s

studled in sore detall, HI. Holms soded to say haro some

2589:n:

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SIGIDStIONA NA sAY VIAS tO discuss. Rochi IIRcHly adultied

toes the IRE solt they sooded the senslotter for thols

¿arpantation da be able to latlanace publia oglatoa la she

U.S. TO eAtlaly blo OUt CUrleSliT, IT. Dolma natod i1

sezitor. Kentlagt liguros vore based an "The Cibas Report".

BoChA anSTered In thO AIIIIIIAtITO.

10. Roche then asked what to Dal could expect so-

sarilaz exacution of allltary operations. Ar. Delas 1n-

sarned Roche that mhen they had a zilitary plan to subalt

1t. The Agoncy would study lt and slve them an ansuer.

At, Holus added that 11 an aunter san dot forthcoding in

a reasonablo longth os ileo, they aboald agale and tor

the sIsver fron thelr contact. Mr. Holas assured Bocks of

DIa contianing persoRal Intorost la t81a solatIonallp end

De oated Rocha to dell with hia Arency contess 1E Mlas1

o1th ta1s 10 alad, but do warned Roche that s1t10181 th18

1s Lie CaBO, de did DOt vAnt tha DES rUnning dEd FORS OR

that contact on nattera they can deal ulth in Mlaul. Rocha

11. AB ho (ROChA) fORTEd therO uBy have Does CertaIn

socidoratardings regarding a roquest by the man le charzo

1n isess" on althor the 23rd or 84th 01 Octobos, Do folt 1t

necessary to set forth l1s posltlos, The "ans In charge"

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not sita lochs on odo al tha aboro dates and asted tor

11To SOS ITOs the DRI 1AClUdiDE RoChe and SalvAt tO be

1a111trasted Into Cuba for Intelliganco purposes. Con-

alderlay ibe ul11:1a 12 Cuba was on full alert by chla

dato thereforo greatly roducily lue chancas of succees

Of such an attempt, Boche triod to got surther detalle

rogardine the oporationa, but mas only told they sould

probably be unod to direct artillary fira. Unablo to

got more dotalla on shat ho considerod a dingorous and

Tory risky a1ss10n ho doclined the request. He addad to

found 1t difticult to ucdorstand tho sar1ous1o5s 01 such

& request.

do tolt that ba and salvat sa leaders of

thalr organieation vera not avRilable for such alagiona

and that as boad of his organlestion, he did not 100l so

could seid bis men to thalr dasts on sucù a vaguely do-

flaad alaylon. Rocha continued that he had inionad bli

men that aithough the Dai, as an orfaslestion, rould sot

take the responsibility for sanding then 1a, they were

Ireo to go 1i they deulred to go on their own. Ar. Holma

atatiod that, noodloas to say, proposals and raquesta iron

both partles had to bo rada 1n all sertouanosa..

12. Mr. Holas ashad 11 there vas anythlug e las

Rochs destrod to discuss. Roche annuared negativaly and

leare Tas taxos.

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