TESTIMONY OF RICHARD BISSELL
Agency: SSCIA
Originator: SSCIA
Document date: 6/9/75
Document type: PAPER-TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

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157-10011-10020

Date: 08/15/92

Page: 1

JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM

IDENTIFICATION FORM

AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : SSCIA

RECORD NUMBER : 157-10011-10020

RECORDS SERIES :

AGENCY FILE NUMBER :

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : SSCIA

FROM

TO :

TITLE :

SSCI TRANSCRIPT OF RICHARD BISSELL

DATE : 06/09/75

PAGES : 108

SUBJECTS :

SSCI TRANSCRIPT OF RICHARD M. BISSELL (VOLUME 1)

OCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT.

CASSIFICATION : T

RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED

CURRENT STATUS : P

TE OF LAST REVIEW : 09/29/93

OPENING CRITERIA :

COMMENTS :

I Box 231, Folder 3 - Transcript/Bissell.

[R] - ITEM IS RESTRICTED

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WARD

PA

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.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

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48

in that respect, buttressed at all by this one page from a

document we have, entitled Nine Pages from the Inspector General,

21 May 1973, which I read very quickly.

It says: "Early in the Kennedy Administration, the 'White

House' urged Richard Bissell to creato an Executive Action

capability, that is, a general standby capability to carry out

assassinations. The Executive Action program came to be known

as ZRRIFLE. It's principal asset was an agent JWINN who had

been recruited earlier by

_ for use in a special operation

in the Congo for the assassination of Patrice Lumumba and to

be run by i

made a survey of the scene, decided

that he wanted no part in the assassination attempt and asked

to be released."

Is the "blank" in that case in so Donnell?)

Mr. Bissell. Yes, it is.

Senator Baker.

Which Bissell granted.

"Project named

ZRRIFLE first appears in the files

in May 1961 although the

first recorded approval is dated 19 May 1962."

Skipping down to the last paragraph, "ZRRIFLE was not

exercised in the Congo. It did, however, find application

against Castro in a conspiracy to assassinate or incapacitate

him that was already underway under other auspices."

Now this memo alleges The 'White House' laid a .

requirement on you for an assassination capability and that

it was you in connection with the Castro situation. Is all

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phone (Area 202) 544-6000

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Mr. Bissell. I believe there was such conversation very

shortly before I left the Agency but not when the ZRRIFLE

project was first initiated.

Senator Schweiker. What was the nature of it? If you

don't say it was that specific application, what application

was it?

Mr. Bissell. It wasn't directed at any specific application.

It was to develop a capability, meaning to identify potential'"1

agents probably in different kinds or parts of the world and

command the control channels and techniques and the like.

Senator Schweiker. Well, YOu're contradicting what

Mr. Harvey's not says on 11/16/61 when he discussed with you,

according to his notes, "Application of ZRRIFLE to Cuba."

Mr. Bissell. Well, I said that I thought there was

some conversation shortly before I left the Agency, and I think

that is the one to which I refer.

Senator Schweiker. You are acknolwedging

Mr. Bissall. Oh, yes. I am acknowledging that I did

eventually talk to Harvey about directing this towards Cuba,

but that was not the nature of my conversation with Harvey when

I first asked him to take on the task of developing a new

ZRRIFLE capability.

Senator Schweiker. Was your asking Me. o Dornell to kill

Lumumba part of the Executive Action program?

Mr. Bissell. I suppose it could be said to be fitted within

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Senator Schweiker.

Are you aware that a virus did end

up in the Congo?

MI. Bissell. Well, I repeat I have little recollection.

Senator Schweiker. Well, MissO DonneMl did testify that

a virus did get there. How would virus like that get there,

without your knowledge?

Mr. Bissell. Well, if I'm correct, the virus was in

the hands of the Station chied before @"Donnell went down

there.

Senator Schweiker. Well, wait. I haven't told you -- I

thought you didn't know anything about whose hands it was in.

How did you know it was in the Station Chiefts hands?

Mr. Bissell. Because I was told that is what Moro Donnell

testified.

Senator Schweiker. Who told you that?

Mr. Wides. I did, Senator.

Senator Schweiker.

Okay, go ahead.

Mr. Bissell. And that could have happend with my not

in any way remembering it. In other words, I didn't remember

until I reread them this morning, any of the details about

what was in the Embassy in the Dominican Republic. I think

that is a little clear in my mind now.

I don't remember this. This could have happened without

my own approval, that is, the forwarding of the virus. It

could have happened with my approval but under circumstances

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which I wouldn't have reason to remember today.

Senator Schweiker. Does it surprisa you that in view of

MaNo Donnell's position of refusing to assassinate a leader

that the virus did appear? Does that surprise you?

Mr. Bissell. Yes, it does on the whole, unless it was

some quite different purpose.

Senator Schweiker. What might that be?

Mr. Bissell. Well, I can't guess, but my judgment is that

before Ma

"bornei ever got there the assassination plan had

been decided to be inappropriate and unnecessary and had been

dropped.

Senator Goldwater. I will have to say, I get more confused

as the afternoon goes on.

If you were not instructed by the White House to set up

a committee which among other things could accomplish assassina-

tion, could you have done this on your own?

Mr. Bissell. Yes, I could, sir.

Senator Goldwater. Could you have done it on instructions

of anyone other than at the White House?

Mr. Bissell. The plan of the capability I could have

done on my own or ordered on my own.

Senator Goldwater. Well, did you originate the idea your-

self and start it yourself?

Mr. Bissell. I have already told you that I don't remember

specific conversations with regard to the White House, but

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103

apparently we had briefed him about it. I just really wonder

if we should question our own techniques here, because he was

prepared for the question

because he had heard Mr. o:DonnelLS

statement. I'm not sure he should have heard Mr. [OlDonnells

statement before he made the statement. I think we ought to

l00k into that.

Mr. Schwarz. That's a very hard question because take

Mr. McNamara -- I would appreciate some instructions on this,

MI. McNamara and Mr. Bundy have both said that they want an

opportunity to know the matters with which they should be

concerned. Now on the one hand there are disadvantages to

doing that because you will look into what they are to be

guard against. On the other hand there are advantages to doing

it because you generally do refresh their recollection about

matters which are relatively old.

Senator Schweiker. Wouldn't it be whether you've got a

hostile witness or a friendly witness?

Mr. Schwarz. well, I don't think in advance we know what

they are.

Senator Schweiker. This fellow sounded pretty hostile

to me.

The Chairman. Senator Hart?

Senator Hart of Colorado. Frank, on your first question

about how to deal with the Press, first of all, I'm not nearly

as experienced as most of the other, people and second, advice

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