[RESTRICTED]
Originator: ROCK
Document date: 05/17/1975
Document type: SOUND RECORDING

## Page 1

Date: 03/21/96

Page :

1

JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM

IDENTIFICATION FORM

AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : ROCKCOM

RECORD NUMBER

•: 178-10002-10322

RECORDS SERIES

: ASSASSINATION FILES

AGENCY FILE NUMBER

A-I(I) INTERVIEWS RE ASSASSINATIONS

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : ROCKEFELLER COMMISSION

FROM

BELIN, DAVID

TO: FILE

TITLE : TELEPHONE INTERVIEW WITH DR. EDWARD GUNN

DATE

05/17/75

PAGES

SUBJECTS : ANTI-CASTRO ACTIVITIES

CLANDESTINE OPERATIONS

CIA

DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

CLASSIFICATION

RESTRICTIONS

: UNCLASSIFIED

: OPEN IN FULL

CURRENT STATUS

: OPEN

DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 01/31/96

OPENING CRITERIA

COMMENTS

[R] - ITEM IS RESTRICTED

---

## Page 2

Date: 07/09/93

Page: 1

JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM

IDENTIFICATION FORM

AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : ROCKCOM

RECORD NUMBER: 1781000210322

RECORDS SERIES :

ASSASSINATION FILES

AGENCY FILE NUMBER : A-I (I) INTERVIEWS RE ASSASSINATIONS

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

DRIGINATOR : ROCKEFELLER COMMISSION

FROM : BELIN, DAVID

TO : FILE

TITLE :

TELEPHONE INTERVIEW WITH DR. EDWARD GUNN

DATE : 05/17/7!

AGES :

[R]

SUBJECTS:

ANTI-CASTRO ACTIVITIES

CLANDESTINE OPERATIONS

CIA

DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

CLASSIFICATION : U

RESTRICTIONS: REFErRED

CURRENT STATUS : RO

DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 07/09/93

OPENING CRITERIA :

COMMENTS :

Inmarked, but may include classified information.

[R] - ITEM IS RESTRICTED

---

## Page 3

COMMISSION ON CIA ACTIVITIES WITHIN THE UNITED STATES

Washington, DC 20500

May 17, 1975

MEMORANDUM

TO

: The File

FROM

: David W. Belin

SUBJECT

: Telephone Interview with Dr. Edward Gunn

Belin:

--now, I'm going to get another 'phone while on

f the men of my staff, Mason Cargill, is going t

hold this up to the receiver, then I'm going to get another

'phone.

DI. Gunn, are you on again here?

Gunn:

Yes.

B:

All right: Well, we are recording this telephone

conversation which is taking place on the 17th day

•I MaY 1975, at approximately 1:00 o'clock, Eastern Daylight

MY name is

David Belin, Executive Director of the CIA

commission, and I've called you, we've talked informally on

the 'phone, and you've checked back to make sure that I am

who I say I am, and now we are going on the record.

going to ask you some questions pertaining to some matters

which took place while you were with the CIA some years ago.

I'd first like to get--your name is Edward Gunn?

G:

That's correct.

B:

And you reside right now in Hilton Head, South Caro-

lina?

G:

That's correct.

And if we want to mail you--not if you want to--we

will mail you a transcript or a copy of the trans-

cript, where should we mail it, Doctor?

G:

P.O. Box 5264, Hilton Head Island, South Carolina

29928.

B:

Now, Dr. Gunn, when did you first become employed

with the

Agency?

DECLASSIFIED

JOK Assars. Rec. Collection Ast of 1992

CIA and NLE Review.

NARA date 13190

PHOTOCOPY

FROM

THE

• GERALD R.

FORD LIBPARY

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## Page 4

- 2-

G:

B:

G:

B:

G:

B:

G:

B:

G:

B:

G:

B:

G:

B:

1955.

And are you a Ph.D. or a medical doctor?

I'm a physician.

And you were in the Technical Services Division

of the Agency?

I was not.

In what area were you?

I'm a medical officer.

Oh, vou were the manical nfficer for the Agency?

Yes.

And when did you leave the Agency?

I retired in--well, I think now is--1971.

Approximately.

Yes.

Now, I'm going to ask you for some events which go

back in the period to 1959-60-61, in that era, so

PHOTOCOPY

FORD LIBPARY

G:

B:

Yes.

I'11--We talked about the development of pills which

might have contained a type of poisoning which were

developed inside the Agency for possible use against a speci-

fic foreign leader. Were you aware of any such development?

G:

B:

G:

I was aware that certain--or a pill--was prepared,

but I have no way of knowing what was in the pill.

Do you have any knowledge of at whose direction the

pill was prepared?

He late no gyps it old are to be supposed,

---

## Page 5

-3-

B

B:

Did you have any conversations with Mr. Bissell,

or is this just your assumption? If you can remember.

G:

Well, the Technical Services Division came under

Mr. Bissell, and I was aware--I believe I was aware

of his interest or his knowledgeability after the pill had

been prepared.

B:

Nege of ava bull the now eageability- the know-

G:

B:

No, I was not.

Were you aware of the knowledge of possibly any

people in the White House 'at the time?

G:

B:

No, I would not be in a position to know that.

Now, you do believe that the pills were developed,

Is that correct?

G:

B:

I know that some pills were made available and I

know that at least one set--I don't know--I know

that there were pills prepared, yes, but I--exactly the

content I would have no way of knowing.

To the best of your recollection, were the pills--

wound they have been fatal if taken by a human

G:

Well, since I had been interested in the protection

of human beings against such things, why I did test

them against some guinea pigs, and at least one batch did not

have any effect on guinea pigs.

B:

G:

But there was a subsequent batch that did?

A subsequent batch, one out of four guinea pigs did

depart.

B:

G:

B:

Do you remember about what time, whether this was in

1959, or 1960 or 61 or 62, any particular time that

stands out in your mind?

None rout than he pretably in the '59 or "60

Do you know whether or not these--there were ever

nything other than these pills prepared that migh

ave--for use against a human beino

A particular

human being -- such as a foreign leader?

PHOTOCOPY FROM THE GERALD R.

---

## Page 6

-4-

G:

B:

G:

B:

I believe that this same-the substance that I was told

was in the pills was applied--or supposedly made a

part of some cigars.

That was possibly to be used against the same person?

Yes.

And was there an actual box of cigars put together,

do you know?

G:

I know there was a box of cigars and--in other words,

I first was told there was a box of cigars, I saw a

completely unopened box of cigars sometime later I saw what

appeared to be the same box still unopened, but I was led to

believe that they had been improved.

B:

Is there a possibility the first box of cigars might

have had a substance that might not have killed

someone but might have affected behavior whereas the second

box of cigars they had a substance that could have killed

someone?

G:

Well, using the word "possible", yes. But I have

no--I have no thoughts that makes me think that this

was the case.

B:

Do you think in both cases it was to try and kill

someone?

€:

B:

B:

G:

B:

G:

I think the first case was of items before they had

been treated and the second was supposedly the same

items that had been treated. That was my understanding.

Oh, I see.

Do you know what eventually happened to

the cigars?

They were destroyed, completely.

Do you know what eventually happened to the pills?

No, I don't.

Do you know if the cigars were prepared before or

after the pills?

My recollection is that they were after, but really

at this state I can't be sure. I think it was after.

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-5-

Is there any other information you have that might

in any way be relevant to any allegations that the

CIA engaged in plans involving assassination of any foreign

engage thy are one in c

leader. that you think might be relevant?

G:

I never had heard inference of any other potential

target--

B:

Other than the particular target for which the

cigars and the pills were prepared?

G:

Yes. That's right.

B:

Do you have any other knowledge about that particular

target that you think might be relevant? That noise

you hear is the end of the tape, and I'm going to have to put

another tape on, but you have about ten seconds left before

I do.

G:

B:

I don't think directly. You are bound to hear

things, but I have never been one that just takes

something I hear and put any weight on it.

All right. I'm going to just have to conclude on

one more tape if you'd hold on a minute please.

G:

B:

G:

B:

G:

B: 3

G:

B:

G:

All right.

DI. Gunn, we have the new tape on now.

Hold it.

Certainly.

Mon, I to kron, and as you and I mentioned this mornine

In our earlier telephone conversation--

Yes--and the tape isn't on now is it?

You want the tape off now?

Yes.

DI. Gunn, you went off the record for a minute.

we are back on the record and you told me you were

aware that--of a man that I said I had already talked to--th

Director of the Office of security who had knowledge of this

Is that correct? We didn't discuss anything off the recora,

did we?

G:

No, Sir.

---

## Page 8

-6-

....:

B:

Is there any other thing that you can think of,

whether I've asked it or not that is any way relevant

to any inquiries of this Commission?

G:

Not that I know of. I would be happy to have anyone

come here and I'll talk with them to the best of my

ability.

B:

This morning I asked/whether or not it would be

possible for you to come to Washington and you in-

dicated because of the condition of your wife that you were

caring for her and you could not come here to washington.

that correct?

G:

B:

G:

This is correct, because I have been doing twenty-

four hour duty since a year ago May 14.

Well, I hope she at least --

We're making progress, but we're not able to move

out of this fifty-mile zone here.

PHOTOCOPY

FROM

THE

All right. Do you know of plans that might have

involved any other target other than the particular

target that these pills were involved on?

G:

I have no offensive plans I know of. My work called

for saving and preventing friends from having trouble,

but no offensive plans.

B:

All right, Well, thank you very much for your inter-

view, Sir, and we'll mail you a copy of it and ther

you can make any corrections that you feel are appropriate.

G:

B:

B:

Well, I thank you very much.

Goodby •

Goodby, now.

FORD LIBPARY

(End of Tape)

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