Originator: HSCA
From: STOUT, JACK
Document date: 1978-06-01 00:00:00
Document type: SUMMARY

# DOCID-32265131

## Page 1

JFK Assassination System

Identification Form

Agency Information

Date:

10/7/201

AGENCY :

RECORD NUMBER:

HSCA

180-10113-10257

RECORD SERIES: NUMBERED FILES

AGENCY FILE NUMBER :

014347

Document Information

ORIGINATOR :

HSCA

FROM:

STOUT, JACK

TO:

TITLE :

Released under the John F. Kennedy

Assassination Records Collection Act of

1992 (44 USC 2107 Note]. Case#:NW

55000 Date: 11-04-2021

DATE:

PAGES:

SUBJECTS :

06/01/1978

11

OSWALD, LEE; PRE-RUSSIAN PERIOD; MILITARY SERVICE

DOCUMENT TYPE: SUMMARY

CLASSIFICATION:

Unclassified

RESTRICTIONS: 3

CURRENT STATUS :

Redact

DATE OF LAST REVIEW :

10/25/1995

OPENING CRITERIA:

COMMENTS :

Box 256.

v9.1

NW 66000 Docld:32265131 Page 1

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## Page 2

KENNEDY

INVESTIGATION INTERVIEW SCHEDULE

1:

Identifying Information:

Name

LACK NMI STOUT

Address 60/ QUEEN ST.

City/state MAIZE, KANSAS

Date of Birth 3-7-39

social Security 51434 0459

2. Physical Description:

Height 6'

Weight 185

Ethnic GrouP CAS.

014347

Date 6-1-78

PlaCe RESIDENCE

-HOME -

Telephone 7220745/5221531

MOr S

Spouse

Children

Color Eyes BLUE Hair BROWN

Special Characteristics

3.

Personal History:

a.

Present Employment: FRENHAUF LINIFORM CO

Address MAiZE, KANSAN

Telephone 522/53/

b.

Criminal Record

1. Arrests

2. Convictions

4.

Additional Personal Information:

a.

Relative (s): Name

Address

b. Area frequented:

c. Remarks:

Investigator

Date

6-1-78

Form #4-B

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## Page 3

KENNEDY

SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS

Name

Addres's

Zack Stout

601 Queen Street, Maize, Kan. Place

Date June 1, 1978 Time 2000

residence

Interview: Mr. Stout recalls LHO as a Marine Private with whom

he was assigned in MACS-1 in Atsugi, Japan, late in 1957. Stout arrived

in 8/57 and recalls LHO arriving "a couple of months later". He was

one of three or four who just came into the barracks one day dragging

their seabags.

Being another radar operator (trained, like Stout, in

Biloxi, Miss.) he was assigned to the first level of the large two

level barracks. Cubicles were formed by arrangement of each man's

wall-type locker with three double bunks in each. LHO was assigned

to stout's cubicle, but not his particular crew. Crews worked 6

(hours) on and 12 off. All radar operators were assigned close to

one another - at least on the first barracks level - inasmuch as they

frequently were waking each other during the night for relief.

Another

thing

they had in common, they all had "confi-

dential" clearance. It was a blanket-type thing. After you (as a

radar operator) were there a short time, your name appeared on the

bulletin board as part of the "confidential cleared list." They all

did the same job and had the same clearance. Exceptions were the

Interviewer Signature

Typed Signature

Jud Mian

Jack

Moriarty

Date transcribed June 26, 1978

BY:

IjI Form #4-A

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## Page 4

Stout interview

Page two

communications officer (Lt. Cherrie) and two staff or technical

sergeants (doesn't recall their names). These three men had

"secret" clearance and

were the only ones allowed to enter the

decoding van. Everyone learned this early on, because this was

a most important guard post, and they all stood many such watches.

Buck sergeants (three stripes) were crew chiefs,

and corporals were assistant crew chiefs. They neither enjoyed

access to the decoding van nor were corporals allowed to move into

the few rooms near the center of the barracks. These rooms were

exclusively reserved for buck sergeants and above. It was

this framework which facilitated the strict caste system which pre-

vailed.

Insofar as Stout was concerned, LHO was run-of-the-

mill radar man, which wasn't bad. If there was a "ding bat" (inept

operator) it soon became common knowledge and LHO wasn't one.

In relatively small units, such as MACS-1, (stout estimates 4

radar crews of 10 men each and a total compliment of 250 men)

common knowledge was a chief characteristic; if one man knew something,

soon all did. Conversely, there was little, if any, knowledge or

interest in the " experimental plane." All the operators were aware

it flew "high and far - beyond our scopes," but it never registered with

the radar crews anyway, so no one paid any attention to it.

Stout explained further that all military aircraft

did check in and out with them except that one. They didn't even know

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## Page 5

Stout interview

Page three

how many there were.

All: he

recalls

was they only used one at a

time. Security was tight. You couldn't get

near the planes. No

cameras allowed in that area. They didn't know any of the pilots.

Someone may have said it was an "experimental" or "weather" plane,

he didn't pay that much attention to it at the time. The only recol-

lection he has was it differs in two respects from the conventional

aircraft in that the wings were so relatively long, there seemed

to be an extra.set of wheels under them and it needed much less run-

way to take off.

Stout added here that the basic "legend"

portrayed

the U-2 as using "Racecar" as its call and checking in and out with

them, neither of which is remotely true. Stout said there's no way

he wouldn't of been aware of this and he never heard of either situation.

Liberty was chiefly "Cinderella" form (required to

return by midnight) which effectively limited such free time to

"Yamato", near the east camp of Atsugi, or "Sagmi Oaksta", near main

side. Weekend liberties permitted a wider scope which included Toyko

some 4-5 hours by train. So the normal pastimes were those bars in

Yamato.

It was less expensive in terms of time (Yamato was

a 20-minute

bus ride) and money (Toyko was the location of the

affluent

bars and

other places of entertainment).

Asked about the location of the "Queen Bee", he asked me,

"Which one?"

He advised "Queen Bee" and many such names, were popular

in nearly all the liberty towns. Those people just seemed to like the

title "Queen" and used it in many enterprises in many areas.

Most of the MACS-1 men frequented the "Queen Bee" in

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Stout interview

Page four

Yamato. He's

seen Lee Harvey Oswald in there as well as most of

MAC-1.

He sometimes went with Lee Harvey Oswald and sometimes just

saw him in there. He would usually be with the same girl. He never

actually met her, but that's not usually the case, anyway. He

advised that in order to really understand that environment, I must

realize it's nothing like society is here in the States. The girls

work in bars and when you visited

a place for the first time, you

got paired off with

a bar girl. All subsequent trips provided you

with that same girl. The joke around the barracks during those days

was that when a Marine - any Marine - visited a particular bar

several times, he was in love.

So, yes, he saw LHO (like the rest of MACS-1) in

the "Queen Bee" with the same girl, but it was an entirely different

connotation than the same situation would have been in the States.

In the first

place, that was rule, not exception and secondly, why

would LHO or anyone else, spend four to five hours for a more ex-

pensive train ride to go to the Toyko "Queen Bee" which would cost him

a month's pay in one trip?

As far as LHO's money was concerned, he was under

the impression he had less, not more, than the rest. Eighty some

dollars a month was the norm, but LHO had an allotment sent to his

mother

("at least that's what he said") which caused a deduction.

Nor did his lifestyle indicate anyting different. At first he didn't

drink at all, then he tried beer and booze, but beer was his drink

when he drank at all. Didn't play cards at first, later might of

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Stout interview

Page five

played for "pay day stakes" - meaning I'll pay you later. As far

as women went, Yamato girls were the cheapest and he didn't see

LHO with them anywhere else. And this was only a later development.

He didn't seek any female companionship when he first arrived, and

this soon lead to the suspicion (more like indictment in that at-

mosphere) that he still maintained his virginity. In any event, the

concensus was LHO was anything but affluent.

Again

I he pointed out the implied inaccuracies of

"Legend." It states that LHO had a regular girl friend in the "Queen

Bee" suggesting he had a serious romance going and also had plenty

of money due to the high prices in the "Queen Bee."

Although Stout went on liberty with LHO many times,

"Cinderella"

, as well as weekends, he never met any civilians who

were acquainted with LHO. Knew nothing of a Japanese woman house-

keeper for a Naval officer in Toyko, nor of young Japanese couple

cooking for LHO. But, he does recall when liberties ceased for LHO.

One day LHO shot himself accidentally with his

own Derringer. It was just a 22 calibre and Stout doesn't know to this

day where he got it, because one thing the Japanese police were strict

about was firearms. Cited an incident when "Corporal Crawley," who

was on the radar team, really got jammed up trying to sell a G.I. 45

to a civilian who turned out to be undercover P.D.

Anyway, they took LHO to sick bay after treating

him in the cubicle for a superficial arm wound. Doesn't think that

anyone was with IHO when the shooting took place, but Crawley was

nearby. He slept in that cubicle too.

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Stout interview

page six

Stout assumed, as did the rest, LHO was attempting

to forego the maneuvers in the Philippines which was timed to coincide

with local unrest. It seems the first "accidental" version didn't

hold up. He also was privy to the "Buck Sergeant" problem LHO was

concerned with. Again local mores permit "your regular girl" to have

other "regular boy friends" so long as the individual schedules don't

conflict.. It seems this buck sergeant (no name) was paying her rent

and that bucks have all night liberty. She, like the rest, was

utilizing some of her free time before midnight with LHo and whoever.

Stout says they used to refer to the more resourceful ones as

"business women."

In any event, Stout still cannot dismiss the

"accidential" version, because just remaining there wouldn't solve

that problem.

Nevertheless, LHO made the trip to Corregidor and

was on mess duty the entire ten weeks they stayed there. Stout re-

calls John Wayne flying over in a helicopter asking for permission

to land. In no time, the Marines crowded around him and they took

him to the NCO club leven in Corregidor at that time, they had an

NCO (non commissioned officers') Club which precluded privates and

privates first class.

Anyway, the much talked about wayne photos

were taken in the mess hall and that's where

LHo appeared in the

background. Stout

advises the party proceeded to the NCo club where

Wayne got "smoked up." He only heard this. He adds they weren't

allowed near the place.

He remembers Marty Schrand - "a tall, skinny kid."

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Stout interview

page seven

After Corregidor, they were at Cubic Point and Marty was on (guard)

post. It was about 2000 hours and Marty's post concerned a couple

of rows of trucks - 80, maybe 90. That location was right on the

water's edge of Cubic Bay. Responding to the report of a discharged

shotgun, others

found Marty lying in a pool of blood on the concrete

section of this parking area. His weapon, a riot-type shotgun, was

several feet away on the ground and Marty had sustained a fatal wound

under his arm. At the time, Stout was scheduled to relieve Shrand

at midnight. They came and got Stout right after 2000 hours and he

he took his post early. He wasn't told any details, but saw the co-

agulated blood with candy in the center. He figured Marty had still

been

carrying this in his shirt pocket from chow today (he explained

this

had been New Year's Day so holiday rations were in order - this

meant candy was part of their regular chow). Stout always was keenly

aware. of the rumors concerning the Philippine bumper boats - stories

were legion of the violent incidents between the crews of these native

boats who would steal ashore at night without lights to pilfer supplies

and assault the guards. Other versions had the guards shooting at

the crews if the boats came too close to shore.

In any event, Stout remembers that night well and

as one of the longer ones he spent on

guard. He

also heard of a

party the same night which his own radar operators had and violence

ensued sending some to sick bay - one in serious condition. He

doubted if LHO had been involved with the guard section that included

Schrand, but he feels certain LHO wasn't anywhere near the violent

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Stout interview

page eight

party. That just wasn't his thing.

After

some time passed, they heard the official

investigation resulted in an "accidental shooting" indicating Marty

had apparently been horsing around with the weapon, ran a live round

in the chamber, then dropped it and an accidental discharge resulted

in the fatal wound. The rank and file still had trouble discussing

the bumper boat crews, but Stout says, like everyone else, no one

knew for certain but Marty. The only thing Stout does recall was

that Marty had won $10.00 that day playing Bingo.

He bought a camera (LHO bought one) everyone had

one. A good Jap camera cost $25.00, a fraction of the cost in the

States.. He bought a Petrie and thinks LHO may have had one, too,

but doesn't remember.

He soon sold his to Corporal Kacowski (phonetic)

who was taking picture of everything in sight. LHO took pictures

around the base - local stuff - he's not certain now.

He knew LHO was studying Russian, but didn't go

anywhere for instructions. There's a Marine Educational Facility

that keeps in touch with Marines by mail for all kinds of classes.

He was under the impression LHO was going to complete all those

Russian courses, sign over and get one of these interpreter's as-

signments. He never mentioned anything about going to Russia,

giving up his citizenship or anything like that. In retrospect, he

can't recall any action or mannerism on the part of LHO which hinted

at any such desire.

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."..

Stout interview

page nine

They did fire familiaration (course) together

at Atsugi and he advised LHO was at best a poor marksman. He'd heard

from those who had come through boot camp with LHO that he barely

qualified with his rifle. Stout's impression was he did much better

shooting pictures.

What might be described as "LHO's group would

have been Stout, George Wilkins, Bobby Warren and LHO," if for no.

other reason "we were all young - within months of being the same

age - were all green as grass and

consequently got a lot of crappy

details together." When they left Atsugi for the philippines, they

spent most of their free time together on board ship.

If he had any civilian friends or contacts of any

kind, he didn't say so and I never saw anyone who looked the part.

It just doesn't seem likely.

"We did go exploring the caves, tunnels and old

battle scenes on Corregidor. There was a lot to see, and that's

another thing about that book "Legend." They wrote it like he was

giving me a tour - nothing like that at all. Another thing while I'm

thinking on it - if anyone threw LHO in the showers, I didn't see

it and didn't hear about it."

"I returned to the States before he did, but I did

see him on a bus about four months later going from Santa Ana to El

Toro. He hadn't changed. Looked and acted the same. We talked

small talk and went our separate ways. I never saw him again."

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Stout interview

page ten

Stout was surprised at the news of LHO's defection.

He wasn't aware of code and frequency changes, not that it probably

didn't occur, but it was an ongoing thing. At least every month

new books were issued changing everything anyway. Never thought

of particular reasons.

The changes seemed part of the system.

No one ever interviewed him.

Offhand, Stout couldn't say what LHO, or anyone

of them for that matter, could have told the Russians other than

"the U-2 could fly.off their scopes - high and far."

Their service together amounted to approximately

a year and a half (Stout's record credits him with one year, nine

months and twenty days overseas duty. He was only aware of LHO

being

separated from their outfit twice; once due to the sick bay

confinement and once for the brig time Re: the mess sergeant's

complaint. He can't be certain, though he wasn't that close all

the time.

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