MEETING WITH MR. BURT WIDES (SENATE STAFF MEMBERS).
Originator: CIA
From: (DELETION)
To: MEMO FOR THE RECORD
Document date: 06/20/1975
Document type: PAPER - TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

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2022 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992

JIVE

INSPECTOR G3X3241

75-2313

20 June 1975

MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

SUBJECT: Meeting with Mr. Burt Wides (Senate Staff Member)

1. On the afternoon of 17 June 1975, Mr. John. Leader of the

IG Staff visited Mr. Kennedy and asked that the undersigned be present.

Mr. Leader said that Mr. Burt WIDES of the Senate Staff had asked to

see Mr. David Whipple and the undersigned. Apparently Mr. WIDES

had read some old files relating to Africa and wanted to clear up some

questions. According-to Mr. Leader the discussion would be informal.

However, it was possible that subsequent discussions would, depending

on what emerged from these discussions, would be before a larger Senate

Staff Group. The files which Mr. WIDES read were WIROGUE, QJWIN

and one other (unknown). It was agreed that the undersigned would see

Mr. WIDES to see what he wanted, as WIROGUE/1 was run by myself in

the early 1960's.

2. At approximately 1615 hours the same day I met with Mr. WIDES.

No other persons were present. Mr. WIDES explained that Mr. William

Harvey had been asked by Mr. Bissell to look into the feasibility of

establishing an "executive action" capability within Staff "D". Aside

from the allegations related to Mr. Harvey's activities with relation to

Fidel Castro, he, Mr. WIDES had noted that 'Mr. Harvey's Deputy ,

Justin O'Donnell had gone to the Belgian Congo and had handled an agent

encrypted QJWIN. The asset had a similar background as WIROGUE/1

and had on one occasion according to the files been approached by WIROGUE/I

in Leopoldville with a proposition to establish what Mr. WIDES believes

is an "execution squad." Moreover, there was a cable in the file relating

to the above which stated that "WIROGUE/1 exceeded his authority"

written by the undersigned and sent by Mr. Bronson Tweedy. Mr. WIDES

went on to say that when he was reviewing a summary of the WIROGUE/l

case he noted a statement that WIROGUE/1 would be trained in small arms,

demolition and "innoculation." Mr. WIDES admitted that since he called

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for me he had reread the summary and it was apparent that what was meant

WIROGUE/1 was to get innoculations. Nonetheless, although this may

be the case he was interested in WIROGUE/1 possible connéction with

QJWIN, WIROGUE/l's training, handling and mission.

3. Mr. WIDES said he knew., from the file that WIROGUE was

originally trained for a SB mission, which was canceled, he had received

training for that mission and later Messrs. Edward Wells)and Lester Houck

had met with him and decided to pick him up for utilization in the Congo.

He also knew that I had handled him white in the U.S.; met him in Frankfurt

and briefed him prior to his dispatch to Leopoldville. Also that while in

the U.S. WIROGUE had undergone plastic surgery. Mr. WIDES asked

specifically what training did WIROGUE receive and what was his mission.

I told him that I had forgotten after thirteen years about his plastic surgery

(a nose job and this was done as an accommodation to WIROGUE. His

training in small arms and demolition was just that and I accompanied him

at the training site during the training. I met him in Frankfurt to brief him

on his new documentation, namely backstopped West German and to take

him to Switzerland where a sum of money was deposited in a Swiss bank

and a letter of credit was given to him whereby he could enter Leopoldville.

His mission was to establish himself, namely by opening a photo shop

using the letter of credit. He was to be available to the Station for para-

military activities once he was established and the need arose. Unfortunately,

WIROGUE, being of a criminal persuasion took the opportunity of the chaos-

in the Congo to engage in money-making propositions for personal gain,

didn't follow instructions and became a handling problem. The Station

recognized in a short period of time that WIROGUE needed a full-time

handler and didn't have the luxury of manpower to do so. He was eventually

returned to the U.S. and terminated. As for the comment of "execution

squads" I simply did not recall it but if he was contacting people on his

own he probably did exceed his authority. Mr. WIDES asked if WIROGUE

received "special handling" as opposed to other agents. I replied that in

a sense he did as WIROGUE was a stateless person who required careful

supervision. On the other hand, Lester Houck was enamored with this

type personality and wanted to ensure WIROGUE was kept happy.

4 Mr. WIDES than zeroed in on QJWIN, wanting to know if I knew the

case, or that Justin O'Donnell was handling him and if so what was his

mission. I told him that QJWIN meant nothing to me nor was I aware that

O'Donnell handled him;as a matter of fact I do not recall O'Donnell being

in the Congo. Upon probing I explained that I was not the Desk Officer

for the Congo and was assigned to another section within the Branch.

Only reason I was given the WIROGUE case was due to a decision by

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Lester Houck who felt that a Case Officer having European experience

have the case which I had. Mr. WIDES asked if Mr. Wells saw all the

WIROGUE traffic. I responded that as Mr. Well's was responsible for

the Congo, undoubtedly he did. He then asked if Messrs. Tweedy and

Houck would see it. Again affirmative..

Mr. WIDES then reviewed the

Lumumba arrest and subsequent assassination and asked if I knew if

either QJWIN or WIROGUE were in any way involved. I replied in the

negative.

5. Mr. WIDES then harked back to the "innoculation" training.

He explained that he has swom statements that the use of biological

warfare was contemplated in the Congo and wanted to know if WIROGUE

was trained in these techniques. I stated categorically that to my know

ledge WIROGUE was never trained in these techniques, nor was I aware

they existed or ever considered. Mr. WIDES assured me they did, however

his interview was simply to see if there was a connection between QIWIN

and WIROGUE and to clear up this little question of "innoculation" which

admittedly was resolved before the interview began.

6. A final note, Mr. WIDES asked if Mr. Glenn Fields

was Mx.

Tweedy's Deputy while I was in Africa Division.

I said yes. Then Mr.

WIDES thanked me and said that the matter was closed.

Dawelk

Daniel R. Niesciur

Distribution:

O&l - Inspector General

• 1. - AC/OPS

1 -D.R. Niesciur

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