## Page 1

157-10011-10083

2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992

Date: 10/06/93

Page: 1

JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM

IDENTIFICATION FORM

AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : SSCIA

RECORD NUMBER : 157-10011-10083

RECORDS SERIES :

AGENCY FILE NUMBER :

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : ROCKEFELLER COMMISSION

FROM

то :

TITLE :

DESPOSITION/TRANSCRIPT OF STURBITTS, WILLIAM C. :

DATE : 04/16/75

PAGES : 114

SUBJECTS :

DEPOSITION OF STURBITTS, WILLIAM C.

DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

CLASSIFICATION : S

RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED

CURRENT STATUS : P

DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 09/29/93

OPENING CRITERIA :

öiginal

COMMENTS :

SSCI Box 292, Folder 1

sent

CIA

2/16/94

[R] - ITEM IS RESTRICTED

NW 50955

DocId: 32203851

Page

1

---

## Page 2

297-1

: rio 984919

CIILINVS SE

SONW NOIWEMISSSEOSE

O1 NOIOEER M0SINVT

CIA HAS NO OBJECTION TO

DECLASSIFICATION AND/OR

RELEASE OF THIS DOCUMENT

ASSANITIZED

6 APR

ORIGIAAL

sw:"."

'.2s

5-17

(CT-1)

- SSCI Box 292, Folder 1

(3)

- Record Number 157-10011-10083

-

Dap00 MIừh tă

tdtwi5.

vedhisdat gralt 16, 1925

iangler. Vxiginia

WARD&PAUL

Nerba

Spoken

nolant.

words fly-

derifta

uritten

MaReRt

wards endure

WASHINGTON, D.C.

410 First Street, S.E., 20003

Phone

HW 50955 Docff32205809 Page 2

FAIRFAX, VIRGINLA

4055 Chain Bridge Rd , 23030

Phone

(703) 273-7400

---

## Page 3

SECRET

Pliano: (/xre8 202) 91.110000

Deposi

or. 0

willian C. Sturbites

Exarination by Counsel

For thie commission

2

7

CAETERIDON SESSION Page 58)

willian C. Sturbitts (Resumed)

58

...

WAND & PAUL

NW 50955

Firel Sarcel, S.E., Washington, O C. 20001

Doc Id: 32203851

Page

---

## Page 4

*LENNING

SECRET

1

Phone (Area 202) 514-6000

2

PRESIDENT'S CONMISSION

ON

CIA ACTIVITIES

5

-..

7

8

9

10

WARD &

PAUL

12

13

14

1ö

16

Langley, Virginia

Wednesday, April 15, 1975

Deposition of MILLIAl C. STURbITiS, called for

examination by Counsel for the Commission on CIA Activities,

the witness being duly sworn by Thomas C. Hogan, a Notary

Public in and for the State of virginia, in the offices of the

Central Intelligence Agency, Langley, Virginia, at 9:59

o'clock a.m., on Wednesday, April 16, 1975, the proccedings

being taken down in stenotype by Ruti G. McClenning, and

transcribed under her direction.

APPEARANCES:

On behalf of the Commission:

GEORGE MANFREDI, ESO.,

ROBERT B. OLSEN,

ESQ.

NW 50955

410 Firel Streer, S.E., Washingion, D.C. 20003

1.3

.19

23

21

22

23

2.4

25

DocId: 32203451 Page 4

---

## Page 5

SECRET

2

DROne LArC: 2021 GAA-6000

1

2

Thereunon,

5

6

WILLIAM C. STURBITTS.

called as a witness by Counsel for the commission on cIA

Activities, and having been first duly sworn by the "lotar!

Public, was exanined and testified as follows:

EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE CO!!!ISSION

BY MR. MANFREDI:

Mr. Sturbitts, will you state your full name for tre

WARD A

PAUL

9

10

1}

12

13

14

25

record?

William C. Sturbites.

Mr. Sturbitts, do you recall when we spoke so.

weeks ago you signed a document entitled, "Advice ad

Waiver"?

A

410 First Straet,

S.E., Washingion,

D.C. 20003

18

19

20

21

22

-=-=

÷=:

HW 50955

24

25

-_==

DocId: 322036/51

Page 5

Right.

A

A

A

you understand that document is still in

sure.

Mr. Sturbitts, by whom are you currently end!''!?

You mean

the Agency or --

That is right.

Central Intelligence Agency.

And what is your current position with the Agency?

I am

a Special

Assistant, Latin America, for

Economic Intelligence Collection and Operations.

And would you briefly review for me the history i:

---

## Page 6

SECRET

3

144.6000

202)

Phone

WARD

2

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

19

80

21

22

23

24

your employment with the Agency?

When I first came in I was in the Intelligence

Directorate for aporoximately ten years and I was put on

special

detail, special indefinite detail, in the Deputy Director,

plans.

which is now the Directorate of Operations.

What year were you put on that detail?

A

I guess it was 19ú4, January, I believe.

And what did that detail involve?

A

Cuban operations, economic warfare.

And how long were you on that detail?

• A

I was in the Cuban operations for nine years.

Between 1964 and 1973?

(Nods in affirmative.)

And in 1973 did you assume your current position?

A

Yes, January.

Now, while you were on special detail -- to the Don?

Yes.

Were you stationed in Washington?

A

Yes.

And did you commute with some frequency to "'iami?

A

Yes.

Were your activities in Miami in any way connected

with the operations of the Miami Station?

In some way. My responsibilities were worldwide.

HH 50955

25

DocId: 32203851 Page 6

I took temporary duty predominantly in Europe, and then "iari.

SERDET

---

## Page 7

!

Pione (Ares 202) 504-6000

1

2

HH 50955

WARD

D.C. 20003

410 First Street, S.E., Washington,

5

5

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

1?

18

19

!!

20

21

22

==

23

24

25

DocId:32203$51 Page 7

SECRET

4

Most of my operations were run out of Europe.

2

Run out of --

Europe. Some were run out of Miami but the big ones

were run out of Europe.

Q

well, in the course of your activities with respect

to Cuba did you have occasion to become familiar with the

operations of the Miami base?

A

Yes.

And the situation in the Cuban community in Miami?

A

Yes, sir.

During the nine years you were with DDO's Cuban

operations, who was -- who were the chiefs of the Miami

Station?

A I think in 1963 Ted Shackley was the Chief and he

was followed by -- I can't think of his name. I should know

it. Well, I will come back to that.

Then, the next Chief of Station was paml tende.

What years was he Chief?

A

I think

Paul

was there about a year and a half. lie

left in 1968 when we reduced the size of the Station. Let's

say Wenze was there from 1966 to 1968. And then Jake Esterline.

He was Chief of Station from 1968 to 1973.

2

Now, what was the

formal title of the group to which

you were assigned for the 9-year period?

A

well, when I first came in it was known as the

SECRET

---

## Page 8

SECRET

5

PhOne (Area 202) 514-6000

2

Special Activities Staff. It was headed by Desmond Fitzgerald.

And then, I believe after that it became the Cuban Operations

Group.

WARD

& PAUL

5

6

,?

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

Now, was this a special group within the DDo or vas

it attached to one of the area divisions?

A

No.

Following the Bay of Pigs, they created a thing.

called Task Force it which was headed by Bill Harvey. And

that -- when Harvey left, he went to Chief.

of station. Rome,

Gand Fitzgerald took over, it became Special Activities Staff.

It wasn't attached to anything except -- it reported to the

Deputy Director, Plans.

And that was MI. Karamessines?

Yes. Well, it was Helms at that time back when it.

was first created. Helms was DDP at that time.

l And Tast: Force W was created immediately after the

Bay of Pigs?

A

well, not immediately. I think sometime around --

in the Bay of Pigs was in April. I think this was created in

September, something like that, 1961.

And that subsequently became the Special Activities

NH 50955

410 First Street, S. E., Washington, D.C. 20003

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Staff?

A

DocId: 32203451 Page 8

Special Activities Staff and consequentl! became the

Cuban Operations Group. As the Cuban Operations Group it went

back into the Western Hemisphere Division.

And what was the date of that reorganization?

SECRET

---

## Page 9

Phone

(Area 202) 544-6000

SECRET

6

well, let's see. I would say that was probably around

1965 because Fitzgerald then became Chief, w.l.,

and then

later DDP.

5

6

7

9

10

Now, is Harvey -- do you recall what position Mi.

Harvey held after he left Task Force Wi?

A

xes. ile was ches of Station. Rome.

And is he

still with the Agency?

A

Oh, no. He retired a long time ago.

I Do you know where he lives at the present time?

A

Frankly, I don't. I have an idea where he lives.

He went to work for a friend of mine who had a law firm.

Harvey is a lawyer.

Indianapolis area?

Yes, some place around there. It is in the midwest.

PAUL

WARD &

410 First Sircet, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

12

13

1 4

15

16

18

19

20

2!

22

23

24

25

Indiana.

W?

A

lished?

NW 50955 DocId: 322038$1

Page 9

What was the role that was assigned to Tas!: Force

It was the overall Cuban operations.

Did the Miami -- when was the Miami Station estab-

well, I think they had a forward operatio-s base don;

there about 1960 which was small, in Coral cables.

2

This was, then, prior to the Bay of Pigs?

Oh, yes.

Now, in addition to Task Force W, was the Miami

SECRET

---

## Page 10

7. 20n2e

Plarie (Ares 202) 1,11.6000

...:

SECRET

7

Station running any operations against Cuba?

• You mean prior to the Bay of Pigs?

Yes.

A

I really don't know. It was

small -- it was a

forward base

and it was

more.or less

as I recall, a support type

thing.

WARD & PAUL

6

7

8

9

1C:

11

12

13

14

15

Well, after the Bay of Pigs when Task Force W was

established, did it have sole responsibility for. Cuban

operations?

Yes.

Q

Or was that shared with the Miami base, Miami

Station?

No. The Miami Station was under Task Force i.

All right. Would that also be true of the Special

Activities Staff, the Cuban Operations Group?

Right, except that at the present time the Station

has no Cuban operations.

I understand that. When were Cuban operations termi-

HH 50955

Firal SHeel, S.E., Washingion, D.C. 20003

13

• 19

20

21

2:3

nated?

A

At the Station? Let's see.

Sternfield went down

there in 1972. It was during fiscal year '72. I think it was

in early 1973. It was a gradual reduction.

And have those operations been terminated entirely

of are they now run out of the Washington area?

A

All Cuban operations are run out of Washington.

DocId: 32203851 Page 10

---

## Page 11

SECRET

8

HY 50955

Phone (Ared 202) 191.0000

WARD & PAUL

410 First Sircet, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

6

---

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16!

13

i9

20

21

22

23

2'4

There are no more paramilitary operations, that type of thing.

But there

are some Cuban operations being run out of

the Washington area?

A

Right.

Is that correct?

A

Right. Worldwide.

Mr. Sturbitts, in the last couple of weeks you may

have seen some allegations in the press about possible assassina-

tion attempts that have been nounted or alleged assassination

attempts that have been mounted -

A

Right.

-- against Fidel Castro. In the course of your

activities with respect to Cuba, did you ever learn of any such

attempts?

A

Well, let me answer it this way. I wouldn't say

attempts. I know there was discussion. "Attempts" is too

strong a word.

Well, can you place in time your first knowledge of

any such discussions?

A

Well, the first knowledge I had of any discussions,

I was on IDY and this was October, November, 1963, with Fitzgeral

in Paris. And I knew that he was going to meet -- let me put

it another way. I had overheard that discussions were going on

with a member of Castro's military but that he wanted, as

25

DocId: 32203851

I recall, he wanted some

British

I can

weller

rifles and

Page 11

---

## Page 12

-222=0.d

::.-

SECRET

9

Phone (Area 202) 514.4000

WARD & PAUL

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

13

410 Firsl Surcet, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

80

21

22

23

24.

25

NW 50955 DocId:32203651 Page 12

a telescopic sight.

Who wanted them?

A

This military guy that was in Fidel's -- I thin!:

at one time he was

comnandante. Now, I knew that was going

on.

I didn't participate in it because I was there for another

reason. And I know that subsequent to that time that Fitzgerald

met with him again and as I recall, as the personal lepresenta-

tive of the Attorney General, Bobby Kennedy.

I provided all those files. There are 19 volumes that

we gave to your people. But I don't know who was reviewing

them. I think Belin was going to do it himself.

Yes. He is. He is doing it himself.

You said there were 19 volumes of documents with

respect to this.

A

19 files, manila.

• Q. All having to do with possible assassination?

A

All having to do with this whole time period ard -

can we go off the record for a minute?

(Discussion off the record.)

BY MR. MANFREDI:

The first knowledge of such conversations

that you

had, I take it you obtained on a trip to Europe with Mr.

Fitzgerald?

I simply overheard it, that is right.

2

And who were the parties to the conversation you overt

SECRET

---

## Page 13

SECRET

10

Pilone (Arca 202) 544-6000

WARD & PAUL

5

3

9

10

11

12

13

14

16

13

19

20

21

22

.23

25

heard?

A

A fellow named

Nesitor, Sanches;

And tr. Fitzgeraid?

A

Yes, and I reali! can't recall some of the other

people. We were -ve had just moved, the Station at that

time

in Parise out of the Embassy, lato, the Old Rothschtld Palace N

and we felt that it was probably bugged, so all conversations

took place - we walked around the garden and tyat type of

thing, and, you know, I was walking with somebody, somebody

was in front of me, and you just overhear conversations.

This was in Paris?

A

Yes.

I see.

angie&

-- was he a member of the military?

A

No.

Ms., Sanchez vas inche Special decivities Stat

He was stationed in ashington. And be was in contact with.

Cuban mustasy

type

Was it your understanding that the Agency had receives

instructions with respect to this activity from another

component of the Government?

Well, let me put it this way. I don't know whether

they received instructions. I have to assume, and I am pretty

positive, that this was a

result of a Special Group decision.

And at this time you have to remember that Bobby Kennedy was

overseeing this deal, presumably for his brother, and he was

NW 50955

DocId:32203851 Page 13

SECRET

---

## Page 14

II

SECRET

11

Plione (Area

202) 544-6000

5

6

part of that Special Group. He called the meetings, he presided

he did a number of things.

Were there any other occasions that you can Iccall

in which the possibility of the subject of assassination of

Fidel Castro was discussed?

A

'No, not really.

You referred to this as the first occasion.

This is the first -

was there a second?

-- the first time I knew about it or even neard it

WARD

& PAUL

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

A

discussed.

16

??

19

20

21

23

24

NN 50955

Doc Id: 32203851

well, prior to the investigation that is curren::

underway -- I am referring now to our commission's investiarim

- were there any other occasions in which this subject e

to your attention after this discussion in the garden in

Paris?

A

The only other thing that came to my attentioriss

that the decision was

made not to provide him with this

that he wanted. Whether that is

right of wrong, I don't in.

but that is what I was told.

When did you learn that?

A

. Oh, I would assume in -- must have been early 194.

around February, something like that.

Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Page 14

---

## Page 15

SSORST

12

Phone (Area 302) 514-6000

MR. MANFREDI: On the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI :

Mr. Sturhitts,

are you familiar with a gentleman by

the name of Fran: Stuigis?

A

Indeed.

Is your familiarity based on what you have read in

the press?

A

NH 50955

410 FIrs Street, S.E., Washingion, D.C, 20003

8

9

10

11

12

1.5

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

No. It is what is contained in the files.

Have you caused

a search to be made of CIA files,

particularly the files of the Western Hemisphere Division.

in an attempt to determine whether Mr. Sturgis ever had any

connection with the Agency?

I have.

What were the results of that search?

A

Absolutely no connection, never has been.

When we talk about connection, are we talking about

an employment relationship?

A

That is what I am speaking of.

Was Mr. Sturgis ever an independent contractor o

the Agency?

A

NO.

Was he ever a contract employee?

No.

Was he ever a regular employee of the Agency?

25

A

DocId: 32203$51 Page 15

No.

REACT

---

## Page 16

SECRET

13

Phone (Ares 202) 514-6000

was he ever hired to do any piecework for the

Agency?

5

6

Not to my knowledge.

Do you know whether of not ir. Sturgis ever partici-

pated in any type of paramilitary of other operation against

Cuba?

On his on behalf he did, not on behalf of this

:

WARD

& PA

$

13

15

16

13

13

23

NH 50955

5.E., Washington, O.C. 20003

A10 First Steel,

22

2÷

25

DocId: 32203$51 Page 16

Agency.

How did you learn of those operations?

A

Through the newspaper. And through FBI reports.

Now, are these recent FBI reports?

A

Oh, no. These go back -- I know at one time, the

thing that comes to mind, I think he made a leaflet drop

over Cuba and this was subsequently reported in the press and

by the Bureau office in Miami.

Do you know who financed his activities?

A

I have no idea.

Is it possible that Mr. Sturgis' activities were

indirectly financed by the Agency through --

A

I don't see how. Frank Sturgis is a soldier of

fortune; has' been. He has constantly tried to associate himself

with the Agency. When I went through his file they wanted me

to classify the file and the way I classified it was "don't

destroy it, he is an intelligence nuisance."

Off the record.

SECRET

---

## Page 17

SECRET

14

Phone (Ares 202) 541.6000

5

WARD

& PAUL

8

9

15

11

12

13

14

==

(Discussion off the recorà.)

MR. MANFREDI: Or the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI:

Have you caused the Agency records with respect to

Sturgis to be assembled in any one location?

A

Yes. Ihave custody of them.

And what is the volume of that material?

A

As I recall, there are five volumes.

Your Committee

called for them the other day after the article in the paper,

I guess it was last Saturday. They called for them Monday and

they returned them

Monday afternoon.

Do you know who

examined those files?

A

No, I don't.

You indicated a moment ago that Mr. Sturgis contacts

the DCD öffice in Miami with some frequency, is that correct?

A

Well, not great frequency but he does with tidbits

of so-called information.

Is this information limited to narcotics, alleged

narcotics traffic?

Recently it has been.

Has Mr. Sturgis been encouraged by the DCD office

13

19

410 Firal Sorcel, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

20

21

22.

23

24

in Miami?

25

FBI.

NW 50955 DocId: 32203451 Page 17

Mr. Sturgis has been told by the DCD office in Miami

to take his information to the Drug Enforcement Agency or the

---

## Page 18

SECRET

15

"..

PhOne CAres 2U2) 114.0,000

WARD & PAUL

D.C. 20003

410 Firs Sireel, S.E., Washington,

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

Do you know whether

or not they consider him an

established contact?

No manner.

Do they have any -- do they periodically seet to

collect information from Me. Sturgis?

A

I can't speak to that but the records that we have

don't reflect anything like that. Before they would contact

somebody in that context, inowing that there is a 201 file

on sturgis, they-would have to coordinate with the Latin

American Division before they did anything since we do hoid

the file.

would you briefly explain what a 201 file is?

A

A 201 file is a personnel file. It consists of any

information relating to an individual appearing in the press

as a result of other agency reporting and that type of thing.

Personnel or personality file?

A

Personality file, I should say. Excuse me.

Do you know whether of not there is any connection

or relationship between Eugenio Martinez and Mr. Sturgis?

A

well, I will say this. Obviously, they do know

each other. They have to know each other from their days

in Cuba.

Q

Do you know whether of not Mr. Sturgis ever partici-

pated with Martinez in raids against Cuba?

NH 50955

25

DocId: 32203$51 Page 18

No. As I recall, we employed Martinez around 1961.

---

## Page 19

SECRET

16

HW 50955

202) 544-6000

Phone (Area

410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

2:

22

23

24

25

I

guess, and he was in our maritime activities.

He was a

boat captain eventually. And he did participate in infiltrations

and exfiltrations and perhaps one of two raids, hit and run,

sabotage-type actions against Cuba. Sturgis never enjaged in

any of these things. He never did it for us nor did he ever

do it on any of our boats, planes, or -- anything that belongs'

to the Agency.

When Martinez would run such an operation or captain

a boat on such an operation, would he be charged with putting

together his own crew?

A

No. lle had an assigned crew and every boat had

Case Officer operating either out of the -- probably out

the Miami Station.

Sometimes I would assume that ie did

h.9%0

some people in the

base. But he, Martinez, wouid

his instructions and briefings from his Case Officer.

So it is likely that he could have broucht sturbis

along on any of these operations?

Absolutely unlikely. Oh, the guy whose name

trying to think of, Chief of Station, John Dimer:

bad g5

And that would be for a period of time between

Shackley and

Yes.

1964 to 1966?

A

Something like that.

Would you describe briefly for me the nature

.?.0

DocId: 32203$51 Page 19

REEDET

---

## Page 20

SECRET

17

Phone

(Area

2021 514.6000

5

WARD & PAUL

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

activities conducted by the Special Activities Staff during

your - and subsequently the Cuban Operations Group during

your 9-year tenure with those groups.

A

Well, there was -- it was an across-the-board

intelligence operation consisting of collection of foreign

positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary

activities, covert action, economic activities. That is about

the breadth of the thing.

Now, these were all conducted through the DDO?

A

Right.

Now, let's speak for a moment about the paramilitary

operations. Were these operations run out of southern

Florida?

A

A

410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

18

19

21

22

23

24

25

Right.

And in particular out of the Miami Station?

Yes.

Were there any other CIA facilities in that area of

the country that participated in these activities?

A .

Not to my knowledge.

Were there any southern harbors other than Miami

that were used in these activities?

A

veli

we had activittes do

the ke

halso

Taid, -we did have a key west base.

Were there any other bases in that area of the

NH 50955

DocId:32203851 Page 20

country that were utilized in these operations?

CEEDET

---

## Page 21

Phone (Ares 302) 514.6000

:.

151102202212

!

SECRET

A

well, not that I would call a base. We did have

training facilities

for the upt toons

18

HW 50955

& MAUL

WARD

D.C. 20003

5. E. Wastngton,

110 F

-5

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

I8

20

21

2%.

23

24

25

underater senolation.

Where were those bases located?

A

I frankly don't know. They were down along the keys

along that

Long

peninsis going dow there. Merel

weke

nam

really can't recall them.

Were there any other sites within the United States

in which paramilitary training was conducted, for people

participating in these activities?

Not to my knowledge.

Where were these people trained?

A

What do you mean?

Well, Cubans who participated in these activities.

--:.-

A

We trained them at

these places we bed in the keys.

NOW"

there also

some of then were brought up hare and train

Mat the.

Dongetie Prairing

station.

Where 1s

that located?

A

chac

LS

diese

in Viaginia

Were any CIA personnel actually involved in these

raids?

A

Occasionally, I would think that -- you have got to

understand at this time that we had a great many contract

employees, independent contractors and this type of thing.

DocId: 32203051

Page 21

---

## Page 22

==:

SECRET

19

Pilone (Arca 202) 544.6000

=

5

8

Most of the paramilitary operations and the training was

conducted by the Special Operations group which is another

entity of the --

DDO?

A.

DDO.

• Now, the facilities that we have been talking about,

training facilities, were manned, then, by the Special

Operations Group, or at least supervised by the Special

Operations Group, is that correct?

A Well, supervised, yes, and I would think that probabi:

some of the training was given by their people.

WARD & PAUL

1.5

410 Fors Street, S.E., Wastung:on, D.C. 2000J

20

21

22

23

would think that in the paramilitary field that the sor would

probably staff the training

facility with their people who have

the expertise in paramilitary operations.

Now, were the people that wore being trained at

these facilities basically Cuban refugees?

A

Yes.

And at the outset i take it not many of those peopie

were American citizens?

No.

Or had become Anerican citizens.

A

I would assune a great many have.

By this time.

By this time, yes.

25

NH 50955 DocId:32203$51 Page 22

---

## Page 23

.::

SECRET

20

PhOne SArCE 2021 :04•6000

:

PAUL

WARD D

•420 1 0s1 Street, S.C., Washingion, D.C. 20003

i:

5

€

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

18

÷9

23

21

22

. '

1!

23

24

2

At the present time, how large is that Cuban communit:

in Miami? Do you have any idea?

Well, it is extronely large. I would think it is

probably - I was trying to think. I would say up towards a

military people.

Q

You spoke about paramilitary operations and covart

action. How do you distinguish between those two categories

of activities?

A

Well, actually one can fall into the other. The

paramilitary could fall into covert action but in those day's

we did distinguish somewhat. A lot of the covert action was

media placement. We had a number of operations at -- legal-

type operations, harassment operations. For instance, Fidei

seized a great many art treasures and in particular he had a

Napoleonic collection which was supposed

to be the finest in

the world that he sold to dealers in Europe. He had paintings!

that were immensely valuable that he tried to have auctioned

in London and the London auctioneer would not accept them

because he obviously didn't have clear

title to them. He is

- they were stolen, in the eyes of the

auctioneer.

lie was

forced to auction them in Toronto, Canada.

We ran legal operations, got

the owners and had them

hire attorneys and bring them to court and this type of thira

He seized these race horses. He tried to peddle hem

NH 50955

25

DocId:32203851

Page 23

in Europe and up in Canada. We ran opposition against that

---

## Page 24

SECRET

21

(Arca 302) 541-6000

Pisone

WARD & PAUL

420 first Sienet, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

type of thing.

-=====

2

These were what you considered to be covert operation

A

5

3

10

11

13

13

14

15

13

19

21

22

23

24

Yes, covert action.

Now, this is what you were referring to, legal-

type operations?

Yes.

You used legal process to harass Casteo.

A

Yes.

What other types of harassment activities did you

run that would fall under this covert action category?

A

Well --

Would economic warfare be --

That was sort of something separate unto

itself.

This was -- the economic warfare aspect of this thing was a

decision of the Special Group to enforce an economic blockle

What special group is that?

A

It is now called the Forty Committee.

Is that 302 Committee?

Well, it was a 302 at one time, too. First of al!.

it was called the Special Group, CI, Counterinsurgercy. The::

it went to the 302 and then it had another name in between

there and now it is the forty Committee.

All right. We will return to that a little bit

later, but what other types of harassment were you running

NW 50955

25

against Castro --

DocId: 32203$51

Page 24

---

## Page 25

SECRET

22

Phone (Ares 202) 544.6000

UL

PA

WARD &

410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

2

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

18

19

20

21

2.2

23

24

25

This is what I was trying to think of.

•— that would be considered covert action?

well, as I say, a lot of propaganda, press placement,

media placement. It has been so long ago I really don't

remember. I know we had a number of things going against hin.

vie used suasion, moral suasion, otherwise. We did some

extra-legal things. He tried to get to his sources of supply,

particulasly when they were counsries

that we

had treaties

witho

NATO couatries.

- Canada

ofthis type of thing.

Let's talk about each of those in turn. You said

you used moral suasion. What kind of activities are you

referring to?

A Well, in the moral suasion field we -- actually, we

were the catalyst in this whole thing and we had

the legal

activities, the legal -- well, I don't know how you would

phrase it, but we operated under the Cuban access control

regulations of the

Treasury, Department, the Trading with she

Enemy Act, and we also used the facilities of the Departmert

Commerce, the Export Control people.

I quess as you are aware, Cuban industry was totally

U.S.-oriented. As parts began wearing out and this type of

thing, Castro had his little people there running around trying

to place orders with subsidiaries of U.S. companies. Where

we would find this out through all-source intelligence, we

NH 50955

DocId: 32203651

or the Treasury people or

the Commerce people would go to tre

Page 25

CEROIT

---

## Page 26

SECRET

23

Tone Are 832) 1A0.6,000

9

=1

WARD

PAUL

-4

18

executives of these American. companies and ask them to tell

their foreign subsidiaries not to provide the spare parts

and the other things

that Castio might

need. We had the

Department of Commerce -- we identified 600 of the major u.s.

companies that could provide spare parts for Cuban industry.

We had the Department of Commerce send letters to those 600

manufacturers and ask them

to cooperate with them in denying

any spare parts to the Cubans. This was a fairly concentrated

effort to really isolate them.

All right. And that is what you were referring to

as moral suasion?

A

Yes.

Anything else in that category?

A

Not really. None that I can think of.

l Did you make the same kind of efforts with foreign

companies?

A

Poun

to Ste

At one point we did but it was absolutely useless,

case being the: ley lond buses:

we pulled all, stops

The british Covermont tured us down

slatso.

AW 50955

110 First Street, S.E. Washinston. D.C. 30003

20

21

22

23

24

25

DocId: 32203851

Now, did you attempt to reach any other sources of

supply?

A

Well, we also had what we call a preemptive purchasing

program. If there was a

single source of supply for a

particular item we would go in and buy it to deny the Cubans

Page 26

---

## Page 27

SECRET

• 24

HW 50955

Phone (Area 202) 544.6000

WARD A PAUL

410 Firs1 Sueet, S. E., Washington. D.C. 20003

5

6

8

11

12

13

14

15

16

13

20

21

22

23

24

25

the market.

would that: then be re-sold somewhere on the domestic

Yes.

-- domestic market?

A

No. It would be re-sold abroad.

In all' cases?

The cases that I was associated with, it was

all

sold abroad.

What kind of purchases were made?

Well, we purchased at one point -- we purchased

•some Bright Stock

in Antwerp

what?

A

Bright Stock.

What is that?

A

Heavy, heavy oil, and since Cuba -- 85 percent of

her energy comes from oil, this was considered a critical

commodity. Bright Stock can be -- oh, it is almost like tar.

melted tar, and it can be cut into additives, lubricants, this

type of thing, and this was

critical to the Cuban economy. jo

we had an oil firm purchase this Bright Stock from a dealer

for!

which we reimbursed the guy and the Bright Stock was eventuall?i

sold

Airica

Do you know of any sales of such materials that

were made within the United States? Resales, I should say.

A

No.

DocId: 32203$51

Page 27

KEENEY

---

## Page 28

SECRET

25

NW 50955

202) 547.6000

Phone (Arca

PAUL

WARD

2

8

9

10

11

12

1.3

14

15

1.6

1?

18

In addition to precmotive buying were there any

other actions taken by this group with respest to sources of

supply to Cuba?

well, ve did provide through third country agents

who got orders for Cuban goods,

in collusion with the Commerce

Department, and I would assume the Special Group, we had

replacement parts manufactured that were substandard.

A

And you had them sold through foreign companies?

Well, we had our agents get the Cuban orders all

:

over Europe. Then they would come back and, as a matter of faci,

the former Secretary of Conmerce, who is on your Committee,

Des.

and I met him and he gave us the go-ahead to do this.

Mr. Dilion?

A

No. He was Secretary of the Treasury.

But -

But you must

remember that these

American --

Q

MI. Connors?

A

Yes. But you must remember these American manuacture:

410 First Sirael, 5.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

• 19

well, their places were nationalized and they were only too

20

happy to work with us. And actually, it was a cash deal, bona

21

fide business. These things were transshipped through

two

22

or three countries, finally wound up in Havana.

23

You referred to some extra-legal activities.

24

A

Yes. That is what I was trying to think of, what

DocId: 32203451 "Page 28

we did. I just can't think -- I remember this was on one of

---

## Page 29

SECRET

. 26

Phone (Ares 202) 911.6000

?.

5

€

7

8

:

WARD

10

11

12

13

14

i5

19

our activities bui I just can't think -- I remember this was

on one of our activities but I just can't remember what the

extra-legal was. I just can't remember what it was. I know

it was one of the parts of the program.

This was illegal activities?

Is that what you are

referring to?

A

Well, I wouldn't say they were illegal, but they

weren't exactly legal, I don't think. Perhaps they were in

gray area some place.

2

well, whose laws are we talking about, international

law, the laws of the United States?

A

I would have to go back and review the thing. I

really can't remember this. I would have to go to the ::les.

Where could we find that kind of thing in the flies?

I would think probably down

coords Conte

A

place.

50111°

HW 50955

410 First Street,

18

. 20

21

22

23

24

Would it be possible to obtain that material

time during the lunch hour?

No.

it is forty miles aud

well, is there some place in the building where

you could refresh your memory?

A

Not to my knowledge. All that stuff has been shippe!.

This is talking 1l years ago, 12 years ago. All that maser:s!

has been retired.

25

DocId: 32203451 Page 29

What category of activity would we be talking abo""

---

## Page 30

-..

SECRET

27

Phone (Arci: 202) 314.6000

PA

5

?

3

9

10

1]

12

13

14

15

16

NH 50955

first Street, S. E., Washingion, D.C. 20003

• 1e

23

22

23

25

stations?

DocId: 32203$51

Page 30

when we refer to extra-legal activities?

A

This is what I was trying to think of and I can't

think of what it was. I know extra-legal activities was one

parts of the program that

we were involved in.

I might have a chart in my safe downstairs that might

tell me what that is.

Well, let's make a note of that and we will have to

..-.

come back to that.

A .

All right.

Who else would be knowledgeable about extra-legal

activities that were run against Castro?

A

well, the people that would be knowledgeable are

probably retired and I was running the program. So I ran

the economic program.

Well, these are activities that were run in connecti?.

with the economic program?

Yes.

We talked about media placement during this

nine-

year period. To what are you referring when you refer

to

media placement?

A

Well, stories or news items that perhaps our

propaganda people, wrote. He had them placed in newspapers

and magazines throughout the world.

Would this also include broadcasts over radio

---

## Page 31

SECRET

28

Pione (Aica?O:) 140.4.000

:.:

Oh, yos. Padio is a very big part of it.

Now, were any of these newspapers of magazines

published within the United States?

Not to my knowledge, no.

These were essentially foreign publications?

A

Yes.

were any of them published in the Cuban community

N 50955

WARD & PAUL

• Washington, D.C. 20003

S.E.

11081101 Steel,

8

10

11

12

13

14

16

13

19

20

22

23

25

in Miami?

No. The intent was to get world opinion against

Castro. You don't do that by publishing in the United States.

ithat about the radio broadcasts? How were those

handled?

A

Are you speaking of Radio Swan now?

Well, I am unfamiliar with how many radio stations

were involved. Has there more than one radio station?

A

No. He only had the one radio station but we did

contract time with Florida stations, a station in New Yor:.

For broadcasts to what areas?

A •

For broadcasts to Havana.

And the

station in New York, was that received also

-- was that also broadcasting to various areas of the United

States?

A

I have no idea. I don't know whether they used a

particular frequency to get this out of whether they did it

DocId: 32203951 Paye 31

on short-wave or what they did.

SECRET

---

## Page 32

SECRET

29

Phone

(Area 202) 391-6000

-.:

WARD & PAUL

5

6

'7

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

??

22

25

NY 50955

410 forst Siradt, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

25

DocId: 32203851

Page 32

But the intention was to reach Cuba.

Reach Cuba.

You referred to a station in New York, referred to

as swan.

Were there others?

There were a couple in Miani that I recall. Not in

Miami. I think there was one -- yes, there was one in Miami,

I. think,

and one down

in key west that they used.

2

Where was Radio Swan located?

A

On Swan Island.

Where is Swan Island?

A

Swan Island is a little glob around Honduras.

Q As far as you can recall, were there any other

radio stations in the United States that were utilized

to

broadcast propaganda materials toward Cuba?

A

well, there conceivably could have been, not that

I recall right now.

Do you recall any attempts by the Agency or pious

affiliated with the Agency to raise money from the American

public to support those propaganda activities?

A

No. As far as I know, Radio Swan and this type of

thing was fully subsidized by the Agency.

Do you recall the advertising campaigns that were

run in connection with Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty?

oh, yes.

Was anything of that nature done in connection with

i

---

## Page 33

zur mina:

SECRET

30

Cuban propaganda?

A

Not to my knowledge.

And that would include both the publications and ti?

radio?

5

7

NW 50955

9

10

11

12

1.3

14

15

15

1.7

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

DocId: 32203861

Right.

Let's tall: about economic warfare for a couple of

moments. Could you describe for me briefly the type of

economic activities that were conducted against Castro?

Well, first of all, we wanted

to denigrate the

regine, his credit vorthiness, and this type of thing. We

worked very closely with the Coordinator of Cuban Affairs

in

the State

Department and, well, for instance, in those days,

guess

it was back in 1964, the price of sugar had jumped iron

about a penny a pound to 13 cents a pound, something like

that, and we couldn't understand why. So we kept -- Fidel kept

saying that he had such a poor crop and this type of thing and

we just couldn't figure out why he had such a poor crop because

some of our own island assets told us they were out there cuttin

this cane like mad and the mills were working 24 hours a day.

this type of thing. So subsequently, we found out that he was

lying and he was storing the raw cane in the schools, any

place. He had no storage facilities and put it any place lie

could.

So in cooperation with a couple of sugar brokers in

New York, we surfaced this fact and the price of sugar took a

Page 33

SECRET

---

## Page 34

SECRET

31

Pirone (Area 302) 144.4000

WARD & PAUL

41011:1 5000e8, 5.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

6

7

₴

9

10

11

12

15

14

15

16

3.9

21

22.

23

2.4

25

real tumble and all of a sudden then Cuba started exporting.

It was this type of thing that obviously he vas

trying to build up the world price because he didn't have any

money, he was

so short on his exchange, and obviously we didn

want him to get the exchange. So it was those types of

activities.

Was the assistance of any u.s. businessmen or u.s.

companies enlisted in that effort?

2

oh, yes.

In what manner did

you use U.S. companies and

businessmen?

A

Well, we simply used them as the experts. A jicat

many -- the sugar industry in Cuba was controlled by the

American community, by American bankers, and obviously they

lost everything when they had to pull out. Sugar is tie

lifeline of Cuba as far as any exchange, foreign exchange. cos

type of thing, and it was naturally our Number 1 tariet.

was only natural that we would go to the American busin ss-en.

What kind of assistance did you seek or obtain ?.

these businessmen?

A

Well, we simply talked with them about why -- you

know, the market conditions were, why the price was risini. :?

we could find out that fidel has plenty of sugar, what wodid

happen to the market price. This type of thing.

2

They were used as consultants, basically.

NW 50955

DocId:32203$51 Page 34

---

## Page 35

SSCRET

32

Phone (Area 202) 141.6000

1

?

-==

5

€ :

8

10

11

221:

WARD & PAUL

13

14

15

15

:8 !!

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

NN 50955 DocId: 322038|51

A

They were used as consultants, basically, yes.

We have spoken about the investment Ame-ican business

had in Cuba. Did it ever come to your attention that American

organized crime --

NO.

-- had considerable investment in Cuba?

A

No. Well, everybody knew that the Malia was in

Cuba. I mean, all the casinos and this type of thing.

2

The casinos were run --

A

I knew that long before. When I was in the Air Force

during the war, I used to fly into Havana on weekends and this

type of thing.

I understand that. It was fairly well known.

It was a criminal element.

The Mafia was involved with the casinos in lavana.

A

Right.

I Do you know of any attempts by the agency to enlis:

the support of assistance of any crime figures in any manner

whatsoever in the Agency's eiforts against the Cuban regime?

A

No.

Have you ever heard of Mr. Roselli?

A

Oh, yes.

When was the first time you heard of Mr. Roselli?

A

Well, I guess it was - it seems to me it was either

Drew Pearson Or Jack Anderson had an article on him a number

Page 35

---

## Page 36

SECRET

33

phone (Ared 202) 581-6000

of years ago.

Was that the first time you heard of the man's

name?

110 first Sireet, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

5

8

9

1.0

11

13

13

14

15

16

19

25

21

2??

23

Yes, as i recall.

Is that also true of Sam Ciancana?

A

No. I have heard that name but I don't know where.

A

In connection with --

Not in connection with the Agency, no.

In connection with the casinos or --

A

NO.

-- gambling interests in Cuba?

A

NO.

You know of no instance in which organized crime

figures were used as consultants by the Agency?

A

Only what I read in the paper. I had no knowledge

of that whatsoever.

Do you know of any offers of assistance fron figures

of that type --

A

No.

-- who were interested in getting back into cuba?

A

NO.

We were talking about economic warfare. We have

talked about attempts to keep the price of sugar low. What other

types of economic activities were conducted against Castro's

25

Cuba?

NW 50955 DocId:32203$51 Page 36

SECRET

---

## Page 37

SECRET

34

Phone (Arca 202) 31:.6000

5

WARD A PAUL

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

well, we used all-source information to find out hat!

his commercial dealings were. when we would see -- well, for

instance,

the Nicaro Nickel line which is a source orned

by the General Services Auninistration, finally got back

into

production and nickel, of course, and still is -- was in shors

supply. He had

a Prens

firm, soclete le uleker who was

buying

alost the entr

output of the vicaro mines. And this

Prend

firm ex ported to the United States.

So we went to

the Treasury Department and to the Foreign Assets Control

people and said, isn't there something we can do to stop these

He Nickel

exports coming into the United States?

So they looke

into the thing

and indeed they did.

Who owned the mine?

The U.S. Government owned it when Castro took it

over.

A

A

I see.

General Services Administration. And it was leased

out for operation. But the ownership rested with the

Government.

#10 first Street, S.E., Washungton, D C. 20003

18

19

20

2.!

22

23

2.4

2.5

So the Treasury sinoly made the

provide a

Certificate of Origin for the nickel that went in -- they

export a lot of metal that contains nickel, silverware, knives

and forks, this type of thing, and -- you know, stainless

steel, and since nickel is used as a hardening agent we simpl!

NW 50955

DocId: 32203851

-- Treasury simply said you can't import any more into this

Page 37

SECRET

---

## Page 38

SECRET

35

Phone (Area 207) 5A1.6000

7

country until ie have a Certificate of Origin. As a matter

of lact, there was a boat that as pulling into the dock in

New York and they wouldn't let it unload. They just turned it

around. Eventually, over a period of months,

le

Nickel,

found other sources and export privileges to the United States

were restored.

You kno:, it is -- you just -- any time you raise

or lower a tariff you have economic warfare. It is that

simple.

NH 50955

WARD & PAUL

410 F1rs1 Sirces, S.E., Washingions, D.C. 20003

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

18

19

20

22

23

24

25

were there any other instances that you can recall

of economic warfare in which you enlisted the support of

American business firms?

A

I know we were in touch with a great many Americin

business firms. We enlisted everybody's support that we could.

MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

BY MR. MANFREDI:

2

When we broke for a moment we were discussing other

instances where the Agency has enlisted the support of American

business in economic warfare against Cuba. Can you think of

any other such instances?

A

Oh, certainly. The Cubans were having an awful tine

with their Maritime fleet, such as it was.

these

powered with Norabeng ongines

were

We simply went to the dordbong

people and told them - asted them to cooperate with

us which

DocId: 32203851 Page 38

---

## Page 39

!

SECRET

Pilone

(Ares 202) 514-6000

5

====

WARD & PAUL

8

9

10

11

12

13

36

they said they would. They notified their manufacturer's

representatives around the world if they got any orders from

the cubans they were to be refused. This type of thing.

we did the

same thing with --

Let's just stop for a second. Now, was Nordbeng

compensated in any way for cooperation with the Agency?

A

NO.

were they compensated for the loss of business

involved in that activity?

A

NO. No.

I take it, you received similar cooperation from

other companies.

A

Oh, a great many other companies, yes.

Did any American companies refuse

to cooperate !:

that manner?

A

No. Not a one.

2

Were there any legal sanctions threatened

companies?

Sirici, S. E., Washingion, D.C. 20003

15

15

=1

1.3

19

No. No.

20

Were there any sanctions that could have been breat

21

to bear upon those companies had they chosen to trade with

22

Cuba?

23

24 !

A

Well, in the first place, they couldn't trade i1:!:

Cuba. They couldn't get export licenses from this coun:r!.

NW 50955

410

25

DocId: 32203651 Page 39

anyway. Then, under the Foreign Assets Control Act of the

---

## Page 40

===

SECRET

37

Phone Area 2028546-6000

410 First Sireel, S.E., Washingion, D.C. 20003

2

5

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Treasury Departnent you have the extra-territorialty clause

in there where a subsidiary of an American company cannot --

foreign

subsidiary of an American company cannot trade with

the country that is designated and Cuba was a designated country

And all the businessmen were well aware of this. Nobody tried

to twist their arm.

Other than insuring that these companies refused

to accept orders from Cuba, which I take it you feel they were

legally constrained from doing, what other types of support dic

you receive from American business?

A

Well, if American business -- sometimes they would

receive correspondence, particularly, say, from -- well, they

received it from Cuba asking for publications and this type

of thing. They would normally forward all this type of thing

to the Commerce Department and the Treasury Department, or in

some instances they might call me and I would just give them

a Post Office box to send the

correspondence to.

Any other, types of support solicited or received by

the Agency from American business?

A No. Not that I can recall. There just wasn't one

firm we approached, and God knows we approached I don't know

how many, that wasn't extremely cooperative. As a matter of

fact, a lot of them, you know, thought we weren't doing enough

that we ought to do a little more than we were doing, the

HW 50955

DocId: 32203651

Page 40

government wasn't really pushing Cuba the way it should, but

SECRET

---

## Page 41

... ===

SECRET

38

NN 50955

Phone (Area 20219,14.6000

WARO & PAUL

810 Forsi Sircet, S.E., Wishmgton, D.C. 20003

i..-

5

-=:

8

.9

10

11

12

13

14

15

161

18

.19

20

21

22

23

----

outside of that, nothing.

There wasn't any problem of coopera

tion. There wasn't any arm-twisting. It was all voluntary.

Did you identify yourself as CIA --

Yes.

Q

- in dealings with these companies?

A

Indeed, I

do and we went to the top level, even

the Board Chairman or the president. No problem at all.

Let's talk about paramilitary operations. We started

but didn't really discuss that in any depth.

What kind of paramilitary operations were run

against Cuba by the CIA?

A

Maritime operations.

Q: Is that the extent of it?

A

That is the extent of it.

2

Were there any aerial operations?

Not to my knowledge.

Leaflet drops?

A

NO.

Bombing?

No. Of course, you had the over-flights.

As far as

I am concerned that is the only aerial activity.

That was run by another directorate, wasn't it?

Yes.

Aerial photography, and so forth.

25

A

DocId:32203651 Page 41

Yes. They run a flight when you ask them. It has to

GRANT

---

## Page 42

SECRET

39

HH 50955

Phone (Are, 102) 646.0000

WARU & PAUL

410 F.851 S1r201, S.C., Washingion, D.C. 20003

5

6

11

12

13

14

15

16

----

19

13

20

21

22

23

24

be requested and that is about it.

And those were run out of the United States?

A

oh, yes.

Can you think of anything, any other type of para-

military activity other than maritime operations.

A

No.

•I really can't, no.

Am I correct that those operations were manned

by CIA contract employees?

A

Right.

Which would include Cuban refugees.

A

Right.

2

And sore CIA officers?

A

Right.

Any other branches of the services, Armed Services,

involved? This, of course, is posted bay of Pigs.

Yes. No, not to my knowledge. You have got to semarbar

that probably down

ou domestic training Station

probably have people on detail from other -- from the military

branches in the Government, but other than that I don't think

that -- of course, during the Bay of Pigs operation we also

had people detailed into the Agency.

Now, the training of persons involved in maritime

operations, I take it, was conducted in part within the

United States and in part outside of the United States.

25

that correct?

DocId: 32203851 Page 42

---

## Page 43

SECRET

40

Phone (Area ?02) 111.0000

2

A

I would think probably the major portion

of it was

conducted within the United States.

evagwould be considered within the United

States.

5

WARD

&PAUL

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

First Street, S.E., Washingion, D.C. 20003

20

2:

22

23

24

25

NY 50955

DocId: 32203851

oh, yes.

Or were there any locations where it was conducted

outside the United States?

Following

the Bay of Pigs,I don't think so.

Not

to my knowledge:' I just don't know, I just don't recall

but I don't think that -- I think all the training was done

domestically.

Now, what kinds of operations are included within

this category of maritime operations?

.A

Well, the infiltration operations, infiltrating

agents into Cuba, exfiltrating agents, hit and run sabotage

raids. That is about the extent of it.

Now, when did these operations commence?

l'as

it

shortly after the

Bay of pigs?

A

I would --I think these operations were probabl!

at their height during the period about 1963 through, say.

1967. The program was terminated in 1968, I think in December

1968, something like that.

Why was the program terminated?

A

First of all, it was too

expensive. It wasn't

ing enough intelligence and it simply wasn't -- economically.

Page 43

---

## Page 44

-

SECRET

41

HW 50955

Phone (Ares 202) 544-6000

PAUL

WARD

• First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

2

5

7

8

9

10

12

13

14

15

16

i?

18

: 19

20

21

22

23

24

it wasn't feasible to continue these things. The agents were

getting wrapped up. We were -- we. just felt that the return

wasn't sufficient for what the investment was.

You say the agents were getting wrapped up.

A

Yes.

what do you mean by that?

When we infiltrated an agent, Cubans would identif!

him and capture him.

These various types of paramilitary operations that

were conducted by the Agency I trust were approved by the

Forty Committee?

Every operation received a specific approval fro

the Forty Committee.

In advance?

A

In advance.

Now, what was the procedure for submittin: --o?

initiating such an operation?

A

Well, normally in the case of an infil or an !::.

or perhaps we wanted to lay down the cache.

You are referring to a cache of arms.

A

A cache of anything, replay of radio, batteries.

whatever they might need.

If we decided that we should ha:c

one of these operations and the request would go from here

over to the, I guess to the White House and then the Forty

25

Committee at its weekly meeting -- they used to meet ver:

DocId: 32203851 Page 44

---

## Page 45

SECRET

42

Prone (Ares 202) 594.6000

1

4

5

6

:

8

9

10

WARO & PAUL

12

13

14

frequently - they would either approve the operation or say

no. These operations had to be planned well in advance because

the tides had to be right, the moon had to be in the proper

phase for communications and this type of thing. And these

things, all these were coordinated with the Joint Chiefs of

Staff, the Navy, the Coast Guard, the FBI. If we were

exiltrating people, the Immigration and Naturalization Service.

Every Covernment agency or enforcement agency or military

agency that had any involvement whatsoever, and the entire

thing was coordinate.

Q

Do you know of any such paramilitary operations

that ware run unbeknownst to the Forty Committee?

A

No.

What kind of volume of operations are we talking

NW 50955

Bricel, S.E., Wastingion, D.C. 20003

410 F 0s1

15

17

.19

20

21

22

23

24

about?

A

You are not talking about a very big volume of

operations because of the planning that had to go into these

things. I would say that probably at the height of the thing

they may be running three or four a month. No more than tha:.

You have heard Eugenio Martinez refer to having

run 300 operations.

A

I have seen that.

2

Is that inaccurate?

well, it all depends on what is in his mind. He

25

DocId: 32203851 Page 45

may have considered some of the training exercises as opera-

---

## Page 46

SECRET

43

NY 50955

Phone (Arca 202) ,14.6000

WARD &HAUL

410 first Street, S.E., WashingIon, O.C. 20003

5

5

=..:

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

16

18

19

21

22

23

24

tions. Obviously, these juys trained. In order to run one

of these operations, you know, you would have to have a mothor

ship in place and rubber boats and

the U0T people to go in to

see if there were mines and this type of thing on the shore

before you go. So he may have considered that all these train-

ing exercises were operations but no way did he ever partici-

pate in any three or 400 active operations into Cuba.

Now, from what specific locations were these

operations launched?

They were mostly launched from

the keys.

Any other locations?

A

Not to my knowledge.

Now, would

you describe for me the kind of hit and

run sabotage operations that were conducted?

A

Well, we conducted one hit and run sabotage against

the Texaco refinery.

What used to be the Texaco refinery?

A

what used to be the Texaco refinery.

MR. MAVEREDI: Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

THE WITNESS: These things, a great amount of planning

went into these things. We did have a model of the refinery.

We agonized over the best approach to the refinery and this

type of thing to do the most effective damage. This was run. It

25

DocId: 32203851 Paye 46

was successful, as I recall, not totally successful but it was

---

## Page 47

SECRET

44

NH 50955

(Area 202) 514.6000

Phone

WARD &

410 FIrel Scer, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

?.

5

5

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

15

17

18

19

20

21

a successful operation. By that, I mean they didn't do as

much damage as they wanted to because they had to get out

because the Cuban defense came after them. It was that type

of operation that we did.

As I recall, another time ve took a team in to burn

some cane fields. Really, the classical operations that we

did in the maritime activities were the infiltrations and

exfiltrations.

Were any CIA operations run out of Guantanamo?

A

Not to my knowledge.

Was it impractical to use the base there for --

A

Well, the base is so surrounded and has been that

I think if a guy went through that fence you would carry him

back. He wouldn't walk.

MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

MR. MANFREDI: bac!: on the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI:

Are there any other categories of sabotage run outle

ot the keys:

other than what you have just described?

A

well, we did lay down a cache, if you will, sabotage

22

23 м

kits to be used by our own island agents. They contained

sugar to dump into gas tanks and metal fragments to put down

24

crank cases. Things of this nature.

25

DocId: 32203851 Page 47

One of our main objects was to, of course, sabotage

---

## Page 48

SECRET

45

phone (Ares 002) 241-6000)

5

6

7

10

11

12

13

14

16

15

19

20

21

22

23

all the oil. He did that with a big operation. He made our

own oil, substandard. Additives, I shouid say, not oil.

contracted with an American firm for that. And ie shipped

it in through thied countries in Europe. It did hit the larget

The thing

we wanted to get at was the oil and the

automotive machinery on the island. lie knew it was breaking

down and if we could get a conplete breakdown we would have

everything at a standstill because in those days the automotiv

equipment wasn't coming in that rapidly from Europe because

Castro didn't hve the money to buy it and they weren't going

to

extend the credit.

The railroad system was in total disaster. The

Soviets had such a long louistics line, supply line, plus

the fact that the Cubans didn't like the Soviet equipment

because they were used to good American equipment. And these

were principal targets that we were trying to get to.

In your experience at the Agency can you think o!

any other analogus of similar paramilitary operations run

from a base in the United States?

A

No.

I know there has been some paramilitary trainin;

in the United States.

A

Oh, yes.

24

i!

In connection with other operations.

25

oh, sure.

AwW 50955 DocId: 32203851

Page 48

SECRET

---

## Page 49

SECRET

46

Pilone (Ared 202) 544.6000

5

6

7

8

IC

1.1

12

13

14

15

HW 50955

Sircus, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

12

13

20

21

22

23

8.4

410

25

DocId: 322038$1

Q

But do you know of any paramilitary operations thas

were actually run out of the inited States?

A

No.

As far as you know, then, this is a totally uniül?

situation.

As far as I am concerned, it is, yes.

Now, how large a Navy was actually organized in

Miami? On a previous occasion you described this to me as

the third largest lavy in the Caribbean.

A

That is right.

What kind of equipment did these people hare.

A

we had as nonesty yo everything ecom.a

to three to 500 foot mother ship. we had. Boston

had a number of cratt

1100

Saly

the 27.0

they 100k

Like real tubs

paineed and

they

they had the fast

d like they wouldn"t

even E Loa

outs

veGe

water

denolition

Did thes

perate

the Miami, area

A

Yes.

were th

firm!

A

Page

49

No o

va

---

## Page 50

SECRET

47

Phone (Ares 202) 144-6000

WARD

2

5

6

7

8

10

12

13

14

15

NH 50955

19

• 19

210 First Strect, S.E., Washington, D.C. 2000J

20

2:

22.

23

25

DooId: 32203851

0

Fishing companies?

A

Well, fishing companies.

Geodet

marine

supply. In all, I think during the period that the

station

one eles, were under, connere aly

dover 02

none

MeL

a I think we had 100 so cover companies.

Q

Did any of these companies actually engage in any

legitimate commercial activities?

A

Not to my knowledga, no.

None of them - were any of them in competition witi:

firm's

in that area?

These are probably what we would call

devised

agili

were probably registered with the State. of

pand taxes, and this, type

ot thing.

come know, we just

that

outdot

existenes and started up a new one.

l What did Eugenio Martinez do when he wasn't tuna:a,

these operations?

Well, he was down -- this is one of the reasons, as

I told you before, we brought him back and put him under chit

contract, that retainer, because of the years that he sport

under such strict operational discipline

hel

Obviously, he didn't stay down there all the time. He

came back -- he might come back once a month, or something

like that, to see his family, perhaps once every two wechs

"Page

he got some time off.

---

## Page 51

!

SECRET

48

HW 50955

Phone (Arel 202) 544.6000

WARD& PAUL

410 First Siriet, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

5.

9

15

12

13

14

25

13

19

29

21

2?

23

2%

Q

I see. So some of these boats and personnel were

actually stationed full-time

to the soyed

Oh, yes. Oh, sure.

Here there any operations run out of the United

States which involved destruction of crops or poisoning of

sugar of anything of that sort?

A What did you have in mind specifically? You mean

the

Puerto Rican thing?

A well, that is one of the things

I had in mind.

Would you describe that for me?

A Well, this is, I guess you could term it a target of

opportunity. This was where a vessel was carrying Cuban

sugar

to the Soviet Union and I forget exactly now what happened

to

it but I know that it got a hole below the waterline, or

something, and had to put into fuerto Rico for repairs.

In order to repair it, I guess, and get it in the

drydock or wherever it was, they had to remove the sugar and

put it in the warehouse and at that time I guess somebody cane

up with a plan to try to widen the rift between -- there was

a rift at that time between the soviets and Cubans and to

put a harmless substance into the sugar that would make it

acid, sour tasting, and it wouldn't harm the sugar or the

individual, and some of this was done.

And then when it

leaked, of course, we had to get rid of it and we had a sugar

25

DocId: 32203$51 Page 51

firm buy it back from the Soviets.

---

## Page 52

• ..

SECRET

49

HH 50955

phone (Area 202) 944-6000

& PAUL

WARD

===

5

6

=====-_=-==

=

8

9

10

11

12

13

14|

• 16

18

2

Bought it back from the Soviets?

A

Yes.

MR. MANFREDI:

Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI :

Are there any other operations in which crops were

-- were there attempts to destroy crops in Cuba?

A

No. No.

Place foreign substances in Cuban products?

A

In Cuban products?

Yes.

A

No.

Not that I recall. You see, Cuba really -- in

those days the only thing, Cuba was exporting sugar and nickel

The agriculture sector of the economy was in absolutely total

chaos. God, they didn't have any citrus, they didn't have

anything, and the poor people in Cuba were literally starving.

There just wasn't anything to eat. And Fidel was going around

• 19

First Street, S.E., WashingIon, D.C. 20003

with this big plan - of course, there were a number of

20

experimental cattle ranches in Cuba. King Ranch had one there.

21

I forget - several other European and American companies that

22

had experimental cattle ranches there and they were experiment-

25.

ing with the, you know, cross-breeding and this type of thing.

24

Fidel was preoccupied with this. He went up to

410

25

DocId: 322038/51

Cangea, and paid $100,000 for a bull and - so he just put it

---

## Page 53

SECRET

50

Phone (Area 202) 444-6000

PAUL

WARD

110 First Sircel, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

5

7

9

10

12

13

14

16 M

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

on an old Cuban Airways

airplane. The damn airplane few too

high and the buli became sterile by the time he landed in

Cuba. No thought given to, you know, pressurizing the cabin

and keeping the temperature

at a certain point and this tipe

of thing.

So he was helping is all along the line and

this here again, ie generate propaganda, incompetence and this

type of thing.

But as far as sabotaging any Cuban product, no, wie

didn't go into that. Our object was to enforce the blockade

and cut off his sources of supply.

When was the Miani Station established?

A

As a station?

Yes.

A

I think in September 1961.

And that was several years before you became involved

in Cuban matters?

A

Yes.

Do you know of any other facilities of that nature

within the United States, Agency facilities?

A

You mean, targeted against the opposition?

Yes.

A

A station as such?

Yes.

No. You have some communications facilities that

25

HW 50955

DocId: 32203÷51 Page 53

you really call stations because here again, they are ro=

---

## Page 54

Phone (Area 202) 144-6000

PAUL

WARD&

9

7

8

10

11

12

1'3

14

=-

18

13

20

21

22

23

24

SECRET

51

directed towards ary domestic activity. They are in support os

overseas communications.

of course, we haver

PR bases and DCD offices and

Office of Security officers, and so forth.

Right.

But I am talking about actual stations.

Operating stations, no.

This is the only such station in the United States

as

far as you know, is that correct?

Right.

And was this station established to deal primarily.

with Cuban activities?

A

Yes.

Cuban-related matters?

A

With Cuba, period.

Did it have, when it was established, any other

responsibilities with respect to western Hemisphere ac..:.tis'

Not to my knowledge.

Entirely limited, then, to Cuban activities?

A

Yes, and in support of Cuban activity and osie:

countries in the Hemisphere.

when you joined the group dealing with Cuban

activities, what was the size of the number of personnel

attached to that Station?

NH 50955

25

A

DocId: 32203851 Ccagee54

To that Station? Well, the Station had pobably s

---

## Page 55

!!

SECRET

52

Phone

(Arco

202) 944-6000

5

6

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

I5

16

couple hundred staffers there, full-time employees of the

Agency, plus I don't know how many contract employeas,

independent contractors, probably another 200 minimum.

It was

obviously the laryest installation we had. I think at its

height it had over 500 people in it.

Full-time Agency people?

A

No, no.

2

Combination of contract and -

A

And full-time, yes. A regular employee we call a sta:

employee.

Now, would Martinez have been one of those contract

$

WARD

20003

il

18

17

20

21

22

23

24

25

people?

A

Yes.

Even though he was located down in the Keyse

A

Oh, yes.

And what kind of facilities did the Station have In

Miami? Physical facilities.

A

Well, they were located

PLOS

I man, the universit

the old richmond Naval Ais Station, it was a self-contained

unit. It was pretty

well off the beaten path, in fact, damn

well off the beaten path.

it was about tour mires trom the

Dixie vig

inlasa

le had our own guard force.

Official cover?

NO.

Non official

HW 50955

DooId: 32203801

Page 55

---

## Page 56

HT 50955

2021 444-6000

Phone (Are.

WARD & PAUL

410 first Siriel, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

8

9

13

11

12

13

14

1 5

12

2:

22

23

SECRET

53

Non official

What was the cover?

A

It

was

commerci

It was called

one

was called Zenith Corporation and it vas set up with a

Prosident and vice President, nomal torporate,

Engaging in any business?

No.

Now, in a community of that type, Cuban community,

how long could

ànon ofeicial cove.

last?

A

Well, öbviously it didn't, but it was research

activities. Funded --

int mechanism when you put

one lot those things in for the funding and this type os thing.

tos yous ostensibid customers,

establishing bank. necounts

Yes, I understand.

A

So it was a research activity and the only people that

ever paid any attention to the place were the newspapers.

You

know, somebody would make an inquiry, you know, we can't accapt

any work, we are loaded with Government contracts and this

type of thing,

held, up reasonably well. Antiont

this one:

thing, of

course,

then

we were running these

innumera

ble other covers

wit, ch

storens activ

The guard

force, of course, were like -- well, they wore uniforms, similar

to the Pinkerton people and this type of thing. And I thirk

that there was - in the later days at that site I think the

department of

Agriculture had offices in there and some other

25

DocId:32203851 Page 56

Government agencies, in other buildings, of course.

---

## Page 57

SECRET

54

Phone

(Arca

2021 544•6000

:..'

6

7

8

9

10

WARD

12

13

14

15

1.9

20

21

22

23

£4

25

HW 50955

DocId: 32203851

10

And this particular Station, then, was under the

supervision of the group we have been discussing?

A

Yes. They were stalled within the Cuban Operations.

When did the Western Hemisphere Division resume

responsibilities for the liami station?

A Well, when Des. Fitzgerald left as Chief of the

Special Activities Staff and became Chief of the Western

Hemisphere Division, he brought it back into the division..

Q

is there presently a Miami:

A

Cho

And how

Large

is it

at the present tin

Culoan

well,

since we

thip when we closed down

Oporations, In don't inow how large, te se at cherp

sent

ime. because we are in one of these, periods

where we are

ning

seassigning.

copLe.

but

y- the-

Tree

there ase going, to be batween 11 and Is people.

When you joined the group in 1963, what functions

were being performed by the Miami Station?

A

Well, all the classical intelligence functions.

think I have lined them out at one time -- collection of

positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary, this

type of thing. Covert action.

This is the list of things you gave me earlier in

the deposition?

A

Page

: 57

Yes.

---

## Page 58

SECRET

55

one

202) 544.6000

4.

5

PAUL

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

26

1?

1a

• 19

20

21

22

23

HM 50955

210 Firsi Siracl, S.E., Washington, D.C. 200U3

25

DocId: 32203651

which of these activities, if any

of them were

actually being conducted within the Cuban community in diami?

well, the collection of foreign positive and probabli!

counterintelligence.

So the Agency

was

conducting counterintelligence

activities in the Miami arca?

A

Yes, sir.

Can you give me an example of the kinds of counter-

intelligence activities that the Agency would be conducting

in that area or was conducting in the area at that time?

A

well, we had

a number of joint operations, as I

recall, with the Bureau. We had identified a Castro agent that

came in by small boat and when she was -- she came in with a

number of other people. When she hit the -- they had a recep-

tion center up in Opa Loca that was really a HEW operation.

The Domestic Contact Division office had people out there ird

we did, too. Our people from the DDO

under Immigration

and vermon bacion s

svice.

cov

When the

people did tre

preliminary interrogation of these people they had to fili

out forms, where were you born, this type of thing, biographic

type thing. These forms would be passed to our people who woul!

look at the forms and based on previous experience or what

they might have been doing, nd they felt that perhaps they

might have some information of intelligence value, they would

reinterrogate them.

Page

58

---

## Page 59

SECRET

56

Phone (Area 202) 544-6000

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

It was in this manner that this gal came to our

knowledge. He surveilled her

for

a long time and determined

that obviously she was receiving messages and she was

sending messages.

So along with the Bureau ve put a surveillars

on her and we obtained a van with DF equipment in it and

indeed, she went on the air in the morning at 5:00 o'clock

or 4:30 or whatever it was, and the direction finder found

it was being beamed toward Cuba, this type of thing, and that

was oen of the examples of the CI activities we were involved

in.

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

HW 50955

25

DocId: 32203651 Page 59

Were there many activities of that type?

A. Not really. You have got to remember that the

Bureau's Cuban squad was fairly small. I mean, it was a laric

squad in terms of FBI squads. It had 36 people on it, some-

thing like that, but 36 people trying to follow a couple o!

hundred thousand Cubans around, you know, it is pretty eras-

tive. This was one of the reasons that obviously fron

in those days when we had formed these revolutionary fronts

which were being run by the Cuban exiles, they were reportin?

to Case Officers and they would report on things in the

community, of people they thought were suspect and this type

of thing. These leads in turn were then given to the Burea's

and it was to this extent that we got ourselves involved

in CI activity.

would it be fair to say that the involvement r. C!

---

## Page 60

SECRET

57

Plione (Arca 232) 541.6000

5

8

WARD & PAUL

10

11

12

15

11

2.5

activities in that area was primarily a function of the over-

whelming number of these people and the Bureau's inability

to properly

staff the thing?

yes, yes. You have got to remember, too, that a los

of the people on that Cuban squad were in the legal section

of the Embassy in Havana. You know, the fBI overseas is

known as Legal Attaches, obviously working out of the Embassy

the same as our Station was, and a lot of our Station officers

from llavana were down in Miami at that time. So there was a

relationship there that had gone over a period of years

between the Agency and the Bureau.

MR. MANFREDI: We will reconvene at 1:00 o'clock.

(Whereupon, at 11:45 o'clock a.m., the taking of

the deposition was recessed, to reconvene at 1:00 p.m., this

same day.)

-

1a

NW 50955

D.C. 20003

410 first Sorcer, S.E., Washingion,

20

21

22

2.3

24

25

DocId: 32203851 Page 60

REPORT

---

## Page 61

'CLENNISC:nol

E1g mha

Pilone (Arca 202) 504-6,000

SECRET

APPERNOON SESSION

59

rlereupon,

PAUL

WARO

410 Firs1 Street, S. E., Washington, D.C. 20003

8

9

11

12

14

15

:6

. 12

WILLINIC. STURBITES,

cabled as a witness by Counsel for the Commission on CIA

Activities, and having been first duly sworn by the Notary

Public, was examined and testified as follows:

2!

!!

22

EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COLAISSION (Cont'd)

BY

TR. MANFRANI:

When we recessed for lunch you were talking about the

Miami Station. Do I understand that the Miami Station was the

largest CIA

station in the world?

Л.

The largest CIA station in the world...

!

At its height?

A.

Nothing comes anyplace close to it.

I wonder if you could describe briefly for the record

what the Mors were.

A.

well, the NiorSavare Cuban a Cuban intelligence

organization in exile. We full intended - this was part of the!

overall contingency nlan that us Government had. Should Castro

ever be overthron, these peonle would be the nucleus to go int:

Cuba anci form a new Ministry of the Interior.

Now, Ministry of the Interior, is that a euphemism

for Security Agency?

A.

well, in most countries of the world the Ministry of

Interior, unlike ours, is the security force, internal and

25

NN 50955 / DocId: 32203651 Page 61

---

## Page 62

Phone (Area 202) 640.6000

9

SECRET

59

And these peonle were Cuban exiles?

Cuban exiles.

How larne an outsi: were the A ors?

Well, at one

tine -- I can give cou the exact figures

but I know it well exceeded over 100, probably closer to -

Go ahear!.

A.

Probably closer to 150, something

like that.

Now, would that lsn persons be included within the

three to 5on who made un the iami Station?

No.

11

A.

Station?

A.

That was over and shove the personnel of the iami

HW 50955

910 f1s1 Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

15

14

15

13

33

20

2:

2.3

Right.

These people were

fulltime CIA employes, weren't ther?

A.

Right. WEll, let me -- these

people really were -

they were being subsidized by the Arency. They were ennloveat,

by

two cover connanies.

the lassest of which was called. ratiny

Anericar Social and. Leonomic Researche

Then we had another

smaller group that did the interrogating and they were under

another cover, commercial cover.

-- I just don't recall vhat i:

was.

But

these

peor." ostensibly were enplovees of. these whal l

owned promietaries. of the Agency.

Thev vere auly conscieuted,

incorporated

paid

taxes, all this type

thing.

The salaries of those people, although paid indiractl.

were naid by the CIA?

25

DocId: 32203051 Page 62

---

## Page 63

Phone (Arca 202) 544.6000

5

:

9

3

SECRET

60

That is right.

n

And was training provided than in the hyenc?

Oh, yes.

A.

You said the smaller group of the tuo giours that mada

up the lagus conducted the interrogations, is that enreet?

A.

Right.

?

When you speal

of interrogations, are

you referring

debriesings?

A.

I am referring to debriefings of newly arrived exiles

or perhaps exiles that hail been in the countr: whon duriny their

time here had acquired new information.

How were those - how and where were those debriefing

WA

RD

11

12

1.3

14

1.5

16

conducted?

Well, nomally the dehriefings vere conducted at no

Loca.

A.

That is the Air Pase?

That is the o1d Air Base there but that is or .

reception center was for all the Cuban refunees comin: in.

10

20

21

22

2.3

24

HH 50955

25

DocId: 32203451 Page 63

Sometimes if there was anira to be a lengthy debriefing, ve

a residance which we rented and the interior was chanted into

small rooms like this where "nu could bring people in, sit the"

down, under controlled conditions, and debrief them without anu

interference and this tupe of thing.

For how long a seriod did

these debriefings go on?

---

## Page 64

NW 50955

Plane (Area ?02) 591.6000

:

WARD & PAUL

8

9

12

13

• 49

22

23

24

SECRET

51

A.

You near in terms of rears?

Yes.

л.

Hell, I would thin: that I would probably say

fIc.

about 115?, and i think the debriefings as such, ni course -

we relied principally on the airlift for the people corn!

put

and when the airlift was cut off, which castro did -- cit ofe

about, I quess about 1970 or 171, in that timeirame --

I see.

A.

-- that stonped

the flow of the refugees, so we just

terminatad that part of the activity.

Well, in addition In debriefing refugees the car

in in the airlift, did the smaller group offaMorSl have an mer

intelligence gathering functions --

A.

NO.

In the cormunity?

Well, I can't give vou a real ves or no en tir:.:

would suppose that there 1s an outside possibility t.: ..:::

have been used to debrief peonle within the connunit?, is::

the Cuban community, but we had in the organization -- dil ?o'.:

people were Cuban with the exception of we had what we cail an

On-Site Case Officer, who was a fulltime staff emplore n! 1.

had a couple of assistants, ircluding a secretary.

These we"

were directly under his control. Though the organizating as e

was set up, they had their on chief and this type of thing.

110

2,5

DocId: 32203851 Page 64

but the chief took his instructions from the On-site Case no::sor

---

## Page 65

Phone

(Ares 202) 544-6000

?

3

9

WARD & PAUL

11

12

13

14

25

19

HW 50955

FIrst SiCEr, S.E., WashingIOn, D.C. 20003

13

20

21

2.3

A10

25

DocId: 32203851

5

SECRET

62

nurse, if these people went out and did something on

their on, they could do things we were not aware of, obviousl!.

You can't - you know what they are doing during their eicht or

ten hours that they are going to work evervray but once they

leave, we don't know what they are up to.

Did they have CI credentials?

A.

connercial cover.

No sir, hecause

they were proprietas

hires of

Did CIA levy an intelligence requirements upon these

people other than in their duties - in their debriefing

capacit!', I should say?

A.

No. When -- there were - obviously thire was

standard debriefing form that covered questions of intoilineror

interest or a battle, you know, anything -- economic juestions,

morale, and this type of thing. When these questions non

these neople were cabriefed and the debriefer vinto ...

report, it would be sent from the Amous over to the starin:.

If the debriefing report contained something of positiv

intelligence, of that nature, the case officer - wall, mot

Case Officer but a staffer in the station may or may not int

down some additional renuirements and ask that that person he

recontacted and asked specific questions.

Now, in addition to debriefing, what else did thi:

smaller broup offadets)do for the Agency in the Miami arra?

A.

Page 65

This was their prine nurnose.

---

## Page 66

6

SECRET

63

HW 50955

Phone (Area 202) 204.4000

:

PAUL

WARD &

410 1 001 511061, 5. E., Washingion, D.C. 20003

How laire yas that particular aroun?

7.

Oh, thers were only anout, I would say at the outsire,

I thin' there were anut five lebriefers with the support peopi:

which iould be secrataries, translators, strictly aministratin

types.

I don't think there were more than probably 1? or 15

¿ in that troup, if there were that many.

i:

12

13

•14

19

2.1

22

23

: г: :

*..

MP. MAUFRADI: Off the record.

10i5 the record discussion)

BY IR. MANFRENT: Back on the record.

Before me move on to further discussion of the amorsk

could you briefly describe for me what role the CIA plays in

resettling Cuban enigres?

A.

CIA doesn't resettle Cuban emigres.

What Agency is charred with that responsibility?

A.

Health, Education and Welfare.

Does CIA slay any role in that

process?

We may assist if ic are asked but the ider of the t:

airlift was having relatives here for somebody to clain vou har

you care in so von wouldn't become a waid of the state of thi

Government, and normally when these refugees came in, they vere

processed through the center and then they had a place down on

Biscavne Boulevard they called Freedom House and this was, f

course, all run by liew, and they - if need he and they had to

stay overnight or stay several days, HEl rould put them up and

care for them in Freedom House.

25

DocId: 32203d51 Page 66

A 20 THE EAS

---

## Page 67

::...

7

Plione (Area 202) 591-0000

7

:

WARD

PAUL

11

12

15

15

SECRET

6÷

Ther

as spor 's sheu could, of course, they would move shen

to the areas where tiny wanted to resettle them, where the

relatives vere, this tune of thing, and ve had nothing to do

with that whatsoever.

Turning hae': to the l ats

and en the larger of the

two

grouns, what sia; the nare of that troup again?

A.

ericap Social and iconanic

Reseats

le can call them

LASER for short?

A.

really, the" are hoth -- the

only reason a separated

the two groups was for

security because ve had one aroup housua

over here

and the sailer ginin was over here. Obrinusly we

couldn't hring these refugees into the larger establishment.

SO

that is why we took the snailer establishment

to presesve. so

cover.

Okay.

What activities was the larger grous engaged

in?

Sireet, S.E., Washingion, D.C. 20003

210 First

in t

83

23

24

Well, the larger rawn was engaged in

tie collectio:

of intelligence.

They compiled dossiers of the principals

inside ruba. They carded -- the kept card files on every

refugee that came throunh the reception center. They antideri

they did do economic and social reporting. They put out

monthly newsletter based on the information they coliected.

The information these peonle collected as opposed to the

information we collected, the='s was all unclassified.

That

came from - all the information they had came from human soirs

25

HW 50955

DocId: 32203851 Page 67

o mo

====

---

## Page 68

HH 50955

Ride 202) 514-4000

Plione

PAUL

WARD

110 First Steel, 5.E., Washingion, D.C. 20003

6

7

₴

1÷

1:

19

13

14

16

18

19

20

22

23

....

-=,

8

or overt publications.

SSCRET

tie

65

sunscribed - well, the proprietar

subscribed to a murin

a areat nany nouspapers, periolicals,

Spanish language te things.

Well, they here doing clandestine collections as velii

weren't they?

A.

I don't inor is vou could call it clandestine.

what.

did you have in mini?

well, would they

ruin agents in the community?

A.

well, ves, there sere penetrations of the cuban

community, yes.

And that is clandestine collection, isn't it?

A.

WEll, I call that human resources.

All right. Where are these files

now?

A.

They are in the Headquarters

here. A great mary of

them were really destroyed. It got to be rather comic. ve

went down there several years ago just looking through the lite.

to see what kind of shape the! were in and ther had such

information for intellinence value in there as a picture o!

gal who might be the daunhter of a Cuban refugee who just con

a

swimming meet. It yot rather ridiculous. so ve purno? *hose

files and took out that material, you know, which

just lidr'

have any pertinancy at all.

How are the files miranired? You indicated hefore that

there is a card, index card eor each Cuban refugee?

₴4

A.

Right.

25

Are there soft cover files as well?

DocId: 322038,51

Page 68

---

## Page 69

SECRET

66

Phone iAred 202) 544.6000

Yes.

2

For each Cuban rasures?

A.

No.

line for each Cuban refuree.

I think, as

recall, those cari files l'ere up in the millions and i forgot.

5

we had I quess the manilla liles, probably went into che tens

of thousands, I wouls think.

How, is there any ar to determine fron those

files

which of those exiles have hecome United States

citizens?

9

No way.

Has there been any effort to make such a determina-

WARO

& PAUL

12

13

1.0

=..

13

NH 50955

fural Street, S.E., Washingion, D.C. 20003

410

21

28.

23

20

DocId:32203851 Page 69

tion?

A.

A.

We made an effort at one time but this -- von cir

become nationalized out in ralifornia and your recard o

nationalization wouldn't he reflected here in Mashinenn

two years. That is how far they are behind.

So I take it --

So there is no ce.:eal indes you can go to. •

there is a central index you can go to but it is not curren.

I take it, then, that there is a rossibility to n

CIA has some files in Miami or here in langley on

arians did

are now American citizens?

A.

Absolutal true.

Now, are any of those files likely to contain

derogatory inforration about the individuals involved:

A.

Well, no. One of the things these neonle do. ni

---

## Page 70

Pirone (Arca 202) 141.1,000

WARD &

13

=

10

SECRET

67

course, me had tarts for recruitment. It could range from

anythin: from a first mate, a captain or chief engineer of a

cuban maritime vessel to firel. When we targeted those people

as possible recruitnents, for possible recruitment, ve would as!:

that al! the information on that individual be assenhled so that

we coul do a complete target study - habits, you know,

everything right don the line. In case of some of the more.

important ones, of course, we had osychological studies prepare?

where ie had enough information. But this is one of the things

these people did. If we said we want everything you have on the

first mate of the - one of the Cuban ships, then the woul

start looking through the papers or anything else to come un

with anything they could on what the guy's current activities

are, his background, his life habits, this type of thing.

well, the ANOrS

were going to be the intellicence

service of Cuba?

A.

Right.

And they obvinusl: were going to perform sore

function

in addition to recriitment of agents?

HW 50955

-310 First SpeCt, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

A.

A.

DocId: 32203851 Page

70

Right.

I take it they were trained in counterintelligener,

gathering of positive intelligence, recruitment and all of t!?

traditional skills, is that correct?

That is shout rinnt.

So I trust that they had files that were amassed

Eor

---

## Page 71

-==

Phone (Ares 202) 541.0000

$

WARD

1

2

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

11

SECRET

68

purposes other than recruitment?

A.

well-.:

For example, let me ask you this. Were any of these

files on Cubans who were suspected or thought to be a possible

internal security problem?

Л.

No. No. They didn't keep those types of files.

We

would simply task them with through your sources what do you

have on so and so. They would not be told the reason why we

wanted the information on anybody.

Well, I guess

with several million fiels or several

million cards and tens of thousands of files it is difficult to

make generalizations about the kind of information that is in

those files?

A.

Well, that is right.

So I guess

I won't ask you to do so, but I want to asla

you this. I trust that there is the possibility that some of

these files do contain what you in the trade refer to as deroga-

tory information?

A.

I would assume so.

And that so much of them may - some of the subjects

of those files may now he American citizens?

Right.

221

And finally I take it that no effort has been made to

23

Street.

study that particular situation?

Ww 50955 Dold: 32203811

Page 71

--.

---

## Page 72

NH 50955

Pione (Area 202) 584-0000

WARD & PA

cet, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

12

SECRET

69

You know, we have a traveler program where when Cubans travel,

2

whether they are on an island or perhaps other places, their

3

names turn up on manifests and this type of thing.

well, these

4

are put into a machine system. What we did when these cards

5

were all transferred back here in Miami, we did go through them

6

at random and pick out cards and then try to match it up with

what the machine system had to see if there was updated informa-

8

tion in the machine system that would show that this quy had

9

become a naturalized citizen, and it didn't work out. So --

10

Excuse me, off the record.

11

(Off the record discussion)

12

MR. MANFREDI: . Back on the record.

13

BY MR. MANPREDI:

14

A I want to straighten out confusion in my own mind

15

where these files preschtly reside.

The cards I take it are

16

presently here in Washington?

17

A.

The cards and what is left of the files.

• 18

That is the soft cover files?

19

A.

Yes.

20

And --

21

A.

I assume they are either here or down at the

22

Records Center.

23

0.

And where is the computer system?

A.

.24

DocId: 32203851 Page 72 -

You mean our machine system? We have --

---

## Page 73

Phone (Are: 202) 1,44.0000

2

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

$

WARD &

13

14

I5

16

17

18

19

reet, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

20

21

22

23

WHY 50955 DotId: 322038/51

-

13

SECRET

70

information on the cards?

A.

Right down on the third floor.

That is not the hydro system?

A.

Oh, по, по.

This is a separate --

A.

This is a complete - only the Latin American Division

uses this particular system.

What kind of records - strike that.

The AMOTS are still in existence, aren't thei?

A.

NO.

I thought they vere going out in June.

A.

Well, okay.

They are on the hooks until June.

I see.

But they have all been let go. They were let yo

they were all given six months termination honuses and tol to

go find a joh.

no they have any facilities, physical facilities.

in

Miami at this time?

Л.

no.

so there are no records in Miani?

A.

No. No.

He brought all those records back here.

& Did the nors have law enforcement responsibilities

in the Miami community?

A.

Page 73

No. No.

---

## Page 74

NW 50955

Phone (Arca 202) 541-6000

5

PA'

E., Washington, D.C. 20003

14

SECRET

71

A.

not to er knowledge.

?

what else did they do, this larger group offenorsgthat

was not doing debriefings?

P..

Well, when they were trained in trade craft we would

5

il

send them to other countries, in Furope and within the llemisphere

6

7

8

9

10

11

1.2

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

to train some of the local services in those countries.

They

served as safe housekeepers in other countries. They served in

listening posts where we had

audio --

Foreign listening posts?

A.

oh, yes, foreign.

Any domestic listening posts?

A. . No, no.

Any domestic surveillances conducted by these people?

A.

I would assume - this I cannot answer hecause : ?..1:

don't know. I know that they did a great number of themis

to my knowledge there wasn't any domestic surveillance

conducted by them.

Now, if it was conducted, and if it is a matter of recor

I don't know where it could he.

What intelligence gathering activities did ther

conduct in the Cuban community in Miami?

A.

One of the big problems we had was within that ruben

community, as I said earlier, were some of the militant anti-

DolId: 32203841Caste -groups and this just drove the FBI and the Coast cuard

---

## Page 75

Phone (Area 202) 544-6000

& PAUL

WARD

1

2.

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22.

23

15

SECRET

72

agencies in Miami plus the state government enforcement agencies

up the wall and, of course, I guess it was around - the

Government allowed a

lot of this to go on for awhile but. I guess!

about 1965 or 1964 they got a little tired of it and they

started to tighten up.

I am sure the AMOrS were in part responsible for proposing

alerting us and in turn we alerted the enforcement agencies when,

there was going to he a raid against Cuba by one of these

militant groups.

A number of times raids were aborted, picked

up by the Coast Guard or Florida Coastal Patrol or the Bureau,

this type of thing.

These people were arrested?

Oh, yes.

Prosecuted?

A.

Not reall!.

Any of them American citizens?

A.

Not to my knowledge.

This would be Alpha 66 type groups?

A.

I don't know whether this quy - well, you know, they

are still after this Masferrer and this guy Donestevez.

I don'

know if they ever did get him in jail but they had him up on

so many charges and he was a Cuban exile that made it big here.

He was a boat manufacturer, small boats, but whether he ever

served any time or not I don't know.. I know he was convicted

WH 50955 DỡcId: 32203851

Page 75

---

## Page 76

NN 50955

Phone (Ared 2021 6:66000

S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

2

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

==

15

15

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

15

SSCRET

73

truthfully don't know whether any of these people ever went

to jaul or not.

Other than identifying operations by militant anti-

Castro groups, what other intelligence gathering did the Mors!

engage in?

A.

Well, of course, there was a counterintelligence

I wouldn't call it a project but a counterintelligence interest

at that time because we knew that they were infiltrating agents

Q. Cubans were?

A.

The Cuban Government. They couldn't do it very well

on the airlift because, as I said before, the aged, infirm, and

young, but they did infiltrate them by small boat. And I don't

- well, we had knowledge that this was on and we did try to

identify those people whom we thought would be suspect.

Was that done in cooperation with the Bureau?

A.

With the Bureau, yes.

Because of their manpower limitations you folks were

in a better position to do it?

A.

Factor.

Yes, and lanquage-wise, too. That is always a hig

Q.

And this was conducted through the lAMorS?et

Yes.

How substantial was the counterintelligence operation

in the community?

DoẾId: 32203861

Page 76

---

## Page 77

74

16

Phone (Arco 702) 511-6,000

2

5

6

WARD A PA

UL

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

16

18

19

NH 50955

Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

20

21

22

23

DoễId: 322058$

would call a great number of suspect infiltrees, but they

come up with a few promising ones and ones it turned over to

tha

Bureau, of course, ve have no idea what the hell ever happens

to it because, "p' linow, you just -- unless you personally kno

the guy in the Bureau that is handling the case, you might as

well forget it. You have not too many other things to do.

What other positive intelligence gathering

activities

were they engaging in?

A.

Well, as I told vou, one part of them were engared in

electronic, intercept.

Where was that done?

A.

Down in Florda,

down in. Homestead.

This is southeast of Honestead?

Yes..

What ere they intercepting?

A.

Well, orininall! they were set un to assist with the

commo. for the infiltration.

As we phased don the maritime activities, they were narr

available to intercent Cuban

common icasions.

NSA tasks them wich

"ther treguencies they wanted Covesed and the Cuban. Conunications

nets they wanted covered. such as the border guards. Another

important one was the sugar network. We had the border guards,

sugar, transportation, maritime. I think there was an interior

network they covered too.

Bat all electronic intercept covera

---

## Page 78

Phone (Arca 202) 544.6000

1.

2

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

WARD & PAUL

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

NH 50955

Dot Id: 32209851

17

SECRET

75

Now, since they belong

to us we could lavy ceratin reruire

ments on them if we wanted to, which ve did very infrequently

because the common

interests, -- we have a common interest in

what NSA

Thas an interest in and unless

there were one particular

operation going that they wanted to cover exactly what the Cubai;

were doing, then we would tast our people with that.

For instance, we knew a Cuban vessel was taking arms into

Africa and our operators

saw the thing leave llavana and then

there was absolute silence. So nobody knew where the thing was.

But we knew arms were being loaded and we finally located the

boat in an Africar port, I nean the intercept Operators did!

it came back on the air. And this is the type of thing. As

a matter of fact, they were unloading arms in Algiers. And ann

Cuban troops.

MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.

(Off the record discussion)

MR. MANFREDI: Let's no back on the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI:

n.

were the Cormnications.

exclusively foreign communications?

A.

Exclusively foreign communications

were they intercepting any communications one termin;

of which was the inited states?

A.

Page 78

No.

---

## Page 79

SECRET

76

Phone (Ares 202) 544.6000

WARD & PAUL

2.

€

8

9

11

12

15

14

15

17

• la

19

20

21

22

23

Right.

On the Island?

A.

Right.

Or between the Island and other locations?

A.

Yes.

But not between the Island and the United States?

A.

No. Let's go off the record on that.

(Off the record discussion)

BY MR. MANFREDI:

To your knowledge were the AMors engaging in the

Elatescer.

communications, either, that tacilit

or B150-

where, in the Miami area of in the southern part of the country?'

A.

NO.

of other Connunteat ions?

No.

Is that their orl! intercept facility?

A.

(Nods affirmative)

Do you know of your own personal knowledge --

that. no you have any knowledge of any wiretaps, survesitances.

breakins or activities of that type other than what he have

discussed --

A.

No sir.

-- that were conducted by the AMOrS?

No sir. I want to go off the record a minute.

IW 50955 DacId:322038b1 Payelfff the record discussion)

---

## Page 80

!

SSCRET

77

Phone (Area 202) :14.4000

1...

..:-

2

5

6

PAUL

WARD &

S.E.. Washington, D.C. 20003

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

1T

18

19

20

21

22

23

MW 50955

DoễId: 322033B1

BY MAR. MANFREDI:

I understand that a study of the history of the fAvors?

has been prepared by one of your members.

A.

That is right.

What is his name?

A.

I think it is Joaquin -- I can't remember the last

name. The poor guy is dead now anyway. Well, I will just have

to get that for you.

What is the title of the study?

A.

The title of the study - it is part of the historical

series of the Miami Station and I think it is just entitled

"The

AMOT Organization."

What is the historical series of the Miami Station?

A.

Te was done when Paul Hennessey was down, thereat

that

we try to do as we go along, from year to vear, is set aside

what is considered to he some of the more significant things

the station might do of that might occur in the station persona

wise, this tope of thing, and then these things are weitten.

I see.

A.

At intervening periods of time.

When was this particular report prepared the NOrS

A.

I think it was predared in 1967 or '68.

It is a fairly lengthy document, isn't it?

A.

Yes.

Page 80

---

## Page 81

Phone (Ares 202) 611-6000

1.1

SECRET

activities of the Añons?.

78

It starts back in 1959 when we first started using

this

gent..

A.

6

First started using what?

First started using, I forget what his name was.

I see. Is it a chronological study of their activi-

ties?

HW 50955

WARD & PAUL

Street, S.E., Washingion, O.C. 20003

8

10

12

1.3

14

16

17

• 13

13

20

21

22

23

Yes.

And you have a copy of that in your custody?

A.

Yes.

I would like to see that document. And we will try

and obtain it through llan': Knoche's office.

A.

Okay.

Excuse me just for a minute.

(Off the record discussion)

MR. MANFREDI: On the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI: I wonder if you would - let me ask you

this.

There have been some allegations in the press that

prominent newsmen in be Miami area have in the past been agents

of the CIA.

Mr. Olsen just came into the office and I asked him to join

us because some of your involvement in Cuban activities in the

Agency in the Miami area touch peripherally on some of the things

had has been charged with investigating, so I am going to turn

DocId: 322036514 Page-St--i~~

and to him fan abstan

he an on an one if mas

---

## Page 82

(Area 202) :, 01.6000

Phone

WARD & PAUL

reet, S.E., Washingion, D.C. 20003

2=22222 2212/71

79

MR. OLSEN: Thank vo, George.

...

BY MR. OLSE:

•Can you begin, since I have not been in on the beggin-

ning of the interview here, can you

start off, Mr. Sturbitts,

by giving me ahout a one of two minute resume of what your

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

16

17

13

19

20

21

22

23

contacts were with the Cuban elements in Florida and elsewhere

withing this country on behalf of the Agencu?

A.

Well, I was a member of the Special Activities Staff

which was in effect the Cuban task force at Headquarters and th::

Miami Station functioned under the Special Activities Staff in

a variety of intelligence collection and operations.

Q

Who was the head of the Special Activities Staff?

A.

Desmond Fitzgerald.

And who was his immediate superior?

Dick Bissell. Fxcuse me. No. At that time it was

Dick Helms. He was the DEP.

Deputy Director for Plans?

A.

Deptuty Director for Plans.

0.

What period of time are we talking about now?

A.

We are talking in the period of 1963 to 1965.

MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.

(Off the record discussion)

BY MR. OLSEN:

So you were not involved in this Special Activities

Nw 50955 'Docid:32203851

Page 82 rine the 1950 to 'al neriod?

---

## Page 83

SECRET

Or the period leading up to the Bay of Pigs?

80

Plione (Ared 202) 941-6000

HH 50955

WARD & PAUL

S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

5

5 .!

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

13

19

20

21

22

area?

A.

23 i

' 61?

DocId: 32203251 Page 83

Right.

A.

No.

And you were not involved in this program at all durin"

the same time that f. lloivard Hunt was involved in it?

A.

No.

Do you know what the position was MI. Hunt occupied in

connection with the Cuban operations of the Agency during the

period of 1959 to '61?

A

To my recollection, lloward flunt was on the Covert

Action Staff dealing in propaganda.

was this propaganda directed to the Cuban people in

this country?

Л.

No. Cuhan people abroad.

And what was his connection with the planning for the

Bay of Pigs?

A.

I would have to review the record to really answer

that. I don't know.

Didn't he spend an awful lot of time in the Miami

He commuted quite a hit.

Between Washinyton and --

Washington and Miami.

- and Miami. During the period of 1950 and early

---

## Page 84

Pilone (AI0o 202) 3411-1000

WARD & PAUL

S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

3

5

6

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

: 13

19

20

21

22

23

SECRET

81

published materials that he was the person who was in charge of

oIganizing a political unit among cubans in this country which

would constitute the Cuban government in exile. Do you recall

where that was?

Л.

That could be quite true.

Have you reviewed, MI. Sturbitts, the Agency's entire

files relating in any way to the Cuban operations and particu-

larly with reference to whether they reflect any contacts

between the Agency and Frank sturgis?

A.

Yes.

Or Frank Fiorini?

A.

There is no relationship.

Is it your testimony that the records and files of

the Agency reveal no official or unofficial contact of any

nature with Frank Sturgis?

A.

To my knowledge that is true.

I take it from that that you are emphatir in your

testimony that he was never an employee of the Agency?

A.

Extremely emphatic.

And you are also egually emphatic to the effect that

he was never a contract agent of the Agency?

A.

Exactly.

Do you know whether he ever served in the capacity

of being an informer or informant to the Agency?

24

NH 50955

DoeId: 322038 sil

Page 84

---

## Page 85

PAUL

WARD &

S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

Street,

1.

3

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

=5

16

17

18

19

20

SECRET

32

YOu mean a source of --

A.

source of information of another agent. Another

agency agent.

Do the files of the Agency reflect any matter?

A.

To my knowledge I don't recall anything like that but?

it is entirely possible that that could have happened without

being a matter of record.

0.

Do the -files of the Agency reveal any instance what-

ever in which Frank Sturgis as ever asked to undertale

any

kind of an operation or activity on behalf of the Agency?

A.

To my knowledge, nothing.

Do the files of the Agency reveal any evidence

whatever that Frank Sturgis was ever paid anything directly or

indirectly by the Arency?

To my knoiledge, no.

Now, when

vou say "to my knowledge, no"

in ansar?

to some of these questions, do I understand that to mean that

you are giving us the full benefit of your knowledge on the

basis of a full review of the Agency's records and files?

A.

On Frank Sturgis, yes.

0.

Okay. During the

period of time that you were with

21

22 €

the Special Activities Group from 1963 to '66, first of all,

can you tell us when that began in 1963?

23

A. When the Special Activities Group. --

24

NH 50955

DodId: 32203854

Page 85

-=

---

## Page 86

SECRET

83

Pilone (Ared 202) 544.00010

& PAUL

WARD

Group began?

2

Л.

It began -- veli, it beran arnurd June of '63.

Now, with particular reference to the last half of

4

5

1963, including whatever period in June '63 may not have been

involved, were there a great many Cubans in the southern linited

6

States who were active in revolutionary fronts that were being

7

¡sponsored by the Agency?

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

• 18

19

20

21

22

23

Wellm vou mean Agency sponsored fronts?

0.

Yes.

A.

The Agency subsidized these fronts in an effor: to

have unity rather than these split factions, split anti-casi

factions. Obviously the leaders of the fronts knew that the

CIA was subsidizing. Supposedly the people that joined these

fronts did not know they ware being subsidized by the agear.

of the U.S. Government.

@ But when you say "supposedly," does the face anomir

to be otherwise?

A.

WEll, based on mu experience with the Cubans and this

type of thing, and their penchant to talk, I would think that

it wouldn't take long for knowledge of any subsidy to sur!gro

itself.

Was it your opinion and impression at that time, ..

Sturbitts, that a great many Cubans considered themselves en

involved in the CIA organizations?

HW 50955

24

DocId: 32203851 Page 86

!

---

## Page 87

SECRET

And again with particular reference to the Miami

84

Pirone (Arca

202) 541-4000

2

area?

IVARD & PAUL

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

A.

Yes.

Was there also Cuban activity of this sort elsewhere

in the United States?

I am asking now particularly with

reference to New Orleans.

A.

There was some Cuban presence in New Orleans. I am

really not familiar with what happened in lew Orleans that was

sort of a sideshow to Miami.

But the same

is -- it is possible that some of the

same Cuban organizations which were being sponsored or funded

by the Agency also had

activities or operations in Now Orleans?

A.

I don't know if I can answer that, whether they had

the same functions. I know that some funding arrangement for

subsidizing the organizations in Miami was carried out through

New Orleans.

Well, can you he more specific about what you mean

NW 50955

Sticer, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

• 18

19

20

21

22

23

24

by that?

A.

Well, in other words, to fund these organizations wa

were subsidizing there had to be some ostensible source of

income for them to continue what they were doing. A great

number - well, not a great number, but a number of select

people were -- well, they were selected and then they were

talked to, to pose as trustees, if you would, or directors or

DecId: 3220385th Pageet von might have of enmo of thace armanisationa in neder

---

## Page 88

Phone (Ares 208) 541 1000

2

WARD

& PAUL

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

16

18

Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

19

20

21

22

23

NV 50955

Doễld: 322038$1_ Page 88

S3C

CRET

85

to get the funding through to the organizations.

These people were normally prominent people and --

And did they get funded by the Agency, then, through

the maeium of prominent and

well-to-do people?

A.

These vell-to-do people ostensibly would call a friend!

of theirs that had heen made trustee of another type of activity

and say, you know, we are trying to assist these Cubans in this

type of thing. Could your organization give us any money, and

the guy on the other end would say, sure, we can probahly lend

you $?5,000 or something like that, or donate $25, 000. This is

the way the funding went into the fronts.

And was some of that funding arranged through

neanle

in New Orleans?

A.

I would think so. I believe so.

Here any of the people in New Orleans through who

that funding operation was effected people who turned out to be

involved in the investigations conducted by Jim Garrison?

A.

Not to my knowledge.

How about David Ferrie?

Was he ever connected with

the Agency in any manner at all in providing funds or assistance

to Cubans or Cuban groups?

A.

I couldn't say. I am just not familiar with -- we had

a great many people that did this.

How about Clay Shaw? Was Clay Shaw ever used as a

---

## Page 89

Phone lAres 802) 516-6000

₴

.n+..-M--

5

6

S

9

10

11

12

WARD & PAUL

13

14

25

16

17

18

19

Street, S.E., Wishington, D.C. 20003

20

21

22

23

24

NH 50955

DoeId: 3220385k

SECRET

86

A.

This I do not know either.

Q.

Parcion?

A.

This I don't know.

BY MR. MANFREDI:

Where would that information be available?

A.

Well, we have a yuy that used to work with me who was

down in New Orleans at that time. He would probably know.

Is he in the building?

A.

yes.

What is his name?

A.

Bil? Xent.

Bird Rent!

A.

Yes.

BY MR. OLSEN:

0.

Who is mill kent

with now? Which department?

A.

He is still with the DDo.

BY MR. MANEREDT:

0.

Western Hemisphere Division?

Л.

No.

He is on one of the staffs. He is on the - I

think Career Management Group Staff.

D.

Is he officed near you?

A.

NO.

He is down in the basement.

BY MR. OLSEN:

the Agency files reveal who the intermediaries were

Page 89

• -

---

## Page 90

SSCRET

87

Phone (Area 202) 514.6000

& PAUL

WARD

SIreEl, S.E., Washington. D.C. 20003

A.

Oh, yes.

=

- to the Cuban movements?

A.

Yes.

4,

no you know whelter -- do you kno: the identity of any

5

of them in New Orleans?

6

=-=;

À.

No. No. Totally unfamiliar with anything that took

8

10

11

12

13

14

16

• la

19

2C

2:

22

23

place in New orleans.

I take-it that Frank: Sturgis was never an intermediar:

for providing funds to the Cuban fronts?

A.

The files that I have don't reflect it.

I I think we covered this already just a few minutes agd

but let me make sure that we have got it on the record.

I understood vou to say that it was vour impression in 1963

that large numbers of cuban exiles, Cuban people in the southern

United States, talked about and believed that they were involin?

in the CIA sponsored activities. Is that true?

A.

That is right.

Was it also vour understanding and your impression

that there was a good deal of talk among this Cuban element in

the southern United States about plans or prospects for the

assassination of Fidel Castro?

A.

I would say no. I don't think there was -- you have

got to remember that these people were embittered. They lost

their homeland, their nossessions, they lost everything and

the:

KW 50955 DocId: 32203851 Page, 90

---

## Page 91

(

Phone (Area 202) 444-6000

WARD

2

4

5

6

---

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

• 20

21

.22

23

24

25

IN 50955 DocId:32203851 Page 91

SECRET

That is Fiedl Castro?

88

A.

That is right, and they would probably verbally do

anything they could to get rid of him.

Was there a lot of talk about killing Castro among

these Cubans?

A.

I would say among the Cuban exiles there probably was

a lot of talk about that.

Did you participate, yourself in the overhearing of

such conversations?

A.

No.

Was this a matter of something that was reported to

you?

A well, it was -- I really don't remember what the

source of it was but I know in my discussions with people at tha

Station and from my visits down there and that type of thing

that this subject always came up. What were they going to do

with Fidel? How are they going to get rid of him and this type

of thing. I don't mean the Agency people. This is what the

Cuban exile community was discussing.

Yes. Do you know what Howard Hunt was doing for the

Agency in 1963?

A.

Well, it seems to me he was here at Headquarters in

'63 and I think he was assigned to the European Division a:o

DDP.

This is your best recollection --

SECRET

---

## Page 92

SECRET

89

Phone (Area 202) 544-0000

WARD & PAUL

• First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

:19

20

21

22

23

24

A.

Yes.

- at the moment. Is it possible that he was with

Domestic Operations Division in the field of propriétaries??

engaged --

A.

I guess you are right, yes. I believe he was there.

Did you personally know Howard Hunt?

A.

No.

Never met him?

A.

I met him. That is all. I can't say I know him.

You would not have known anything about his where-

abouts on any particular day, then. Is that true?

A.

Can we go off the record?

(Off the record discussion.)

THE WITNESS: Let's go back on the record.

BY MR. OLSEN:

I would like to have it on the record.

A.

Do you have a particular day?

No. I am just asking you if your acquanitance with

Hunt was such that you would have known of his whereabouts on

any particular day.

A.

No.

Was it very infrequently that you ever saw him?

A.

Oh, I would see him in the halls, this type of thing,

but - bump into him perhaps downtown on the street.

But you would have no occasion for knowing

from one

H7 50955

25

DocId: 32203851 Page 92

---

## Page 93

SECRET

90

(

Phone (Ares 202) 544-6000

& PA

WARD

1

day to the next where he was?

2

5

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

"12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

A.

No.

Have you ever conducted any kind of inquiry on behalf

of the Agency as to where he was on November ??, 1963?

A.

Yes.

And when did you conduct that inquiry?

A.

I have done it twice that I recall and the most recent

one was I guess -- I am just trying to think. Nell, it wasn't

too long ago because we did have an inquiry and we obtained the

time and the attendance records from the Office of Finance which

showed that Howard Hunt was on sick leave on that day.

Was this just fairly recently?

A.

Yes.

I understood from what files I have seen, Mr.

Sturbitts, that the only records that were available from the

Office of Finance showed that he had had nine hours of sick leave

during the two-week pay period ending the 23rd of November but

that the records were not available as to how much sick leave

or annual leave had been taken on any particular day.

Well -

Am I mistaken?

A.

As I recall, he was in a duty status one day and a

sick leave status the next day and back to duty the next day.

I would have to check that with my Budget and Fiscal Officer.

He is the chap that got that for me..

25

HH 50955

DocId: 32203851 Page 93

---

## Page 94

(

(

Pirone (Ared 202) 544-6000

PAUL

WARD

SECRET

91

...

1

Can you check that for us?

2.

A.

sure.

0. .

And give us the results of that?

4

=

Yes.

5

6

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

Because this is much more detailed information than

I have been previouly aware is available in the files of the

Agency.

A.

All right. I will do that.

BY MR. MANFREDI:

Q.

Do you want to make a note of that?

A.

Let me have a piece of paper.

0.

YOu might also want Mr. Sturbitts' phone number which

is 351-5106.

THE WITNESS: That was 22 November, right?

BY MR. MANFREDI:

That is the day.

A.

1963.

In response to whose inquiry was that investigation

made?

I don't know. I would have to look that up, too. I

don't recall exactly who asked for it. I don't know whether

I will just have to check that. I don't know who it was.

And the date? Do you have any idea when you made the

inquiry?

A.

25

No. But Ican find out from the B and E guy, hopefull!!

NN 50955 DocId:32203851 Page 94

---

## Page 95

Phonic (Ares 202) 544-0000

1

2

5

6

II

& PAUL

WARD

410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

NH 50955

DocId: 32203851 Page 95

SECRET

92

You said there was a previous inquiry?

A.

Yes. The previous inquiry came from Archie Roosevelt

who is now retired and was

at that particular time the Chief of

European Division.

When was that inquiry received?

A.

That was about a year ago, I guess.

BY MR. OLSEN:

R. About the first time these photographs began to be

circulated?

Yes.

About the bums in Dallas?

A. Yes, and actually I think this -- Archie's inquiry

came from some magazine or newspaper man in Europe. Archie was

chief of station, Londong for a long time and he apparently

made a lot of acquaintances over there among the media.

A This is something you are relating to Der Sterm

Magazine?

A.

That is right.

0.

And did I understand you to say that in checking with

the Office of Finance that it was positively ascertained that

Hunt was on sick leave on November 22nd?

A.

Well, I will have to check that. That is the way

I understood it but I did yet this through our Budget people who

have the contact with the Office of Finance.

And that he was on annual leave the day before?

---

## Page 96

Plione (Ared 202) 544.6000

PAUL

WARD

1

2

3

4

5

6

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

SECRET

93

A.

No. He was on a duty status the day before, on sick

leave, and then on duty status the following day.

BY MR. MANFREDI:

was there any effort to determine what MI. Hunt's

previous pattern with respect to sick days had deen?

A.

(Nods in negative)

BY MR. OLSEN:

0.

November 22, 1963, was a Friday. When you say that

records reveal that he was on a duty status the next day --

A.

It was a Friday. Then I was mistaken.

Does that mean he was on duty the following Morday

or on the next day, Saturday?

A.

No. On the following Monday. I didn't realize the

22nd was a Friday.

Will you check that thing for us and give us a bries

memo together with whatever supporting - copies of supporting

documents you can find?

A.

Okay.

As promptly as possible on this question.

I think that covers the subject matter.

MR. MANFREDI: I can give you another moment if you wart.

Can you think of anything else?

MR. OLSEN: I think that is all.

MR. MANFREDI: Okay. Off the record.

(Off the record discussion)

25

HH 50955

DocId:32203851 Page 96

---

## Page 97

SECRET

94

Pirune (Area 202) 544-6000

PAUL

WARD

(

410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

-==

2

5

+

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

•20

21

22

2,3

24

25

HW 50955

DocId: 32203851 Page 97

BY MR. MANFREDI:

I. I am sorry for the interruption but over the long haul!

I

think probably I saved you some time.

We are talking

about newspaper editors when

we vere inter-

rupted - or when I invited the interruntion. I guess I ought

to be fair.

Is it not a fact that the Agency had some relationship with

some prominent newspaper officials in the Miami area?

A.

YeS.

And

what was the nature of that relationship?

A.

relation

Latin Ane

Traditionally the Chief of Station maintained then

th ossic laus of the miant Herald, particulari

editorias wellas relationships with statf

Members to

think itts the Miami News and stringers fort

the other newspapers and periodicals, stationed uh. Miami.

What

was the purpose of those relationships?

A.

I really couldn't say what the prupose of the relation-

ship was. I mean, the same reason that we establish

a relatio.

ship with the press in this town. There were certain things that

might come to the attention of the press involving true names

and incidents that we felt should perhaps not be surfaced at any

particular time.

Q.

Do you have any knowledge of use of the press in Miani!

for propaganda purposes?

A.

No. NO.

SECRET

---

## Page 98

oh 1

Volos

nsl

SECRET

95

Phone (Areu 202) 544-6000

$

WARD

410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

. 16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

would you know if that were the case?

A

No. I really wouldn't know, but the relationship was

two-way street. It wasn't simply that we assisted these

people as well as they were assigint us.

What assistance would you render for members of

the press in Miami?

A

well, in the case of

the

American editor

we would put him in contact with the Chiefs of Stations of

areas he periodically visited and the Chiefs of Stations

would give him background briefings and this type of thing

on the developments within a given country. • :

Was that done evenhandedly for various newspapers?

A

Predominantly, I would say probably the Miamie

Herald received probably a little more attention than the.

othes

papers, principally because it.was a large paper and y

their ratin American-editor traveled a great deal throughouty

the Hemisphere?

Was he also used as a source?

NO.

l Do newspapermen in Washington, D.C., receive

similar briefings?

A

Yes.

We talked with Mr.Olsen for a short period of time

about fronts, revolutionary fronts. How large were these

organizations?

NH 50955

DocId:32203851

Page 98

---

## Page 99

SECRET

1bh 2

96

(Area 202) 544-6000

Phone

1

2

4

4.

5

6

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

A

Well, the membership varied. As I said, we were

principally interested in the leadership of the

organizations.

Once the organization was established and the leadershie

took

over, then they would

take care of enlisting the, I guess,

getting membership from the Cuban exile community to join.

What were their functions, the fronts?

A

Well, it was to bring some unity out of this chaotic

thing of the splinter groups and get -- as I said, it was a

political organization in exile.

A

Did they conduct any operations?

No, not that I know of.

Just like a political party?

A

Like a political party.

How many of these fronts were there?

A

There were several of them. I really don't remember

the names of them. The FRD was one. The Revolutionary

Democratic Front. I guess that was probably the biggest one.

And there were some others.

The RDE?

FRD.

I see.

A

Front Revolutionary Democratic. It is the

Democratic Revolutionary Front.

All right. Are these groups still in existence?

25

NN 50955 DocId:32203851 Page 99

I would think not. I really don't know.

---

## Page 100

•-...

mbil

Phone (Ares 202) 544-6000

PAUL

WARD

(

1

2

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

SECRET

97

Is there a CIA station in Puerto Rico?

A

No. There was but there isn't any more.

There

hasn't been one there for rars.

When was it disbanded?

A

I think the station was established around 1958

and -- perhaps it was established before that. I think it

went out of existence in 1958.

A

Do you know why it went out of existence?

No, I don't. I

don't have any idea.

Do you know what function it was performing?

A :

(Nods in negative.)

You mentioned earlier that Bernard Barker worked

in the Cuban community for the CIA?

A

He worked with these fronts, too.

Was he performing any intelligence function in the

community?

A

Intelligence furctions. Nell --

Was he collecting information?

A

Sure. If he got information that he thought ins

worthwhile he would pass it on.

Now, would he have been considered one. of the three

or 500 persons employed of assigned to the Miami Station?

A

Yes. He was a contract employee.

And were intelligence requirements levied on such

contract employees?

NW 50955

DocId: 32203851

Page 100

CECDET

---

## Page 101

7bh 4

SECRET

98

Phone (Ared 202) 544-6000

& PAUL

WARD

!

1

2

4

5

6

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

A

Normally, the requirements are pretty standard,

of they were at that time.

But here again, you always have

ad hoc type things that pop up from time to

time, and have

to

be surfaced.

Some of these contract employees were, then, in

the business of collecting intelligence information in the

Cuban communities in Miami.

Right.

Now, I think we finished with the AMorSe but can

you think of any other functions performed by the dors tha:

we have not discussed in the course of the afternoon?

A

No, not really. No.

l I think you previously described them for me as

the

eyes and ears into the Cuban community.

A

Right.

And they actually had a physical facility in a

which was their headquarters, did they not?

A

Exactly.

Q

And there was a CIA Case Officer who managed o

vise that facility.

A

Yes.

A

Now, what has happened to the amors!

The AMors, were gradually phased down and will ao

out of existence -- the AMeTS are out of existence, arer. 'e

__-.

they? Isn't it the AMpUkES or - these are the radio heople

HN 50955

DocId:32203851 Page 101

SECRET

---

## Page 102

SECRET

99

1bh

5

544-6000

202)

Phone (Area

PAUL

WARD

410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

1

2

3

4

5

6

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

A

And

the AMDUKEs

are the ANOTS?

The fanpukes are. Arors but they are fradio people.

They are the ones that conductea the inteneene.,

A

Yes. The only reason we use two different names

is that in each of these things in those days we had to have

a project which had to be renewed every year to get the

funding.

SO AMDUKE and AMOs - -

synonymous.

-- are cryptonyms?

A

Yes.

Do the initials stand for anything other than --

A

No. Just pick them out. If you want to encrypt

somebody you just call downstairs and they give you a

crypt. You don't have anything to do with it. thee

at that particular time to be the cuban alograph.

happened

Now, turning to the Miami Station's involvement for

assistance to the Secret Service in connection with the

political conventions in 1968 and 1972, would you briefly

describe for me the nature of the assistance provided by

the Agency to the Secret Service?

A

At the request of the Secret Service we conducted

name traces on individuals whom the Secret Service wanted

HH 50955

DocId: 32203651 Page 102

traced. These includedthe employees of all hotels in Miami

CIEDET

---

## Page 103

SECRET

6

100

Phone (Ares 202) 544.6000

WAAD & PAUL

410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

1

2

3

4

5

6

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Beach where any convention activities were to take place,

employees of catering services, limosine service, employees

in -- what do they call it, the Civic Center in Miami. It

is a big auditorium down

there. I forget what they call it.

Foreign news people and media, television, radio people.

Q

Were these people on whom name traces were requested.

all foreign nationals?

All foreign nationals.

was there any check made to determine whether

any of them were American citizens?

We levied on the Secret Service as a requirement

that they have identified these people by nationality before

we would run a, name trace. Inadvertently, at one time

they did submit a list, a rather long list of American citizens

which we promptly sent back to them and told them we could

not trace.

And this practice was followed both in 1963 and

1972?

A

That is right.

And where were these names traced?

A

They were traced back here and also in Miami.

The

Miami Station did their name check and we did our name check

here. In the case of Cubans, probably the Miami Station had

more information on the Cubans than we would have back here.

But the names were traced through Agency files?

NW 50955

DocId: 32203851 Page 103

SECRET

---

## Page 104

202)

(Arca

Phone

$

WARD

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

SECRET

101

Through Agency files.

0 • Was

Secret Service receiving cooperation from FBI

on this as well?

A

oh, yes.

And in effect, they were getting an all-Agency name

check -

A

Right.

- on people who might pose a security threat --

A

Yes.

-- to a candidate?

Well, they were just trying to determine who might

be a security threat.

That is right. Potential threat.

A

Yes.

For what political parties -- strike that.

In 1968 was this service provided for both politica!

conventions?

A

Both political conventions.

Here they both held in Miami that year?

No. I guess it

was in 1972 they were both held

there. I think it was just the Democratic in 1968.

These requests did come from the Secret Service

rather than --

From the Secret Service and it was - the Director

of the Secret Service came to the DCI and asked him for

25

17 50955 DocId: 32203861

Page 104

---

## Page 105

SECRET

ba 9

102

Plone (Area 202) 544-6000

WARD A PAUL

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24.

25

support.

Do you still maintain the records with respect to

that tracing activity?

A

I have all the names that have been traced.

And they are on little cards down in your files?

Yes.

Why have those records been maintained? Is there

any reason those records have been maintaines?

A

Well, because le were told to maintain them when

-

the Watergate thing broke.

I see.

A

And since then nobody will destroy anything.

OK. Are you aware of any picketing at various

places in the country that has been conducted by Cuban

groups?

A

I was not aware of it until I was told of it.

I still don't know whether this was a spontaneous action on

the part of these people of whether they were instructed to

do it. I tried to run that down and I have been unable to.

I. At what locations has it been reported that pickets

were located?

A

Airline offices in New York, Miami. I think anosher

place. I forget where it was.

Have you in fact been able to verify that these

persons were Cubans?

NY 50955 DocId: 32203851

Page 105

SECRET

---

## Page 106

abh 9

SECRET

103

Phone (Area 202) 544-6000

1

A

well, it is a matter of record in the AMOr history

2

that this indeed did take place. Now, what I have been trying

to determine is whether the On-Site Case Officer authorized

ti

this which I fully doubt.

5

Iho was the On-Site Case Officer?

6

At that time it was a fellow by the name

of Tony

7

Storza.

8'

Is he still alive?

9

10

A

Yes, he is down in Miami. But I just do not know

whether this was a unilateral action on the part of thera

11

"AMOTShagainst the countries that were then trading with

12

PAUL

WARD &

Cuba, notably Spain and Great Britain and France.

13

Other than this incident wich we -- strike ha

14

What kind of an investigation have you conducted?

15

A

I have talked to people, which is really all ou

16

can do.

There is no other way you

can do it.

17

You have been unable to determine who, if anyone.

18

authorized this activity? Have you been able to ident:!:

19

410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

any of the persons who participated in the picketing?

20

A

No.

21

22

With what frequency did this activity occur?

A

I don't have any idea. I only know of one

ingtance

• 23

This was in New York City?

24

A

New York City and Miami.

25

Do you know of any organized political activisy ir.r

SECRET

NW 50955 DocId: 32203851 Page 106

---

## Page 107

SECRET

104

nbh 100

Prune (Ared 202) 544.

"the AMOrS" engaged in?

2

3

4

5

6

7

i!

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

To my knowledge, they didn't engage in any.

Any political activity.

Do you know of any other activities that they have

conducted within this country, they of any of their members

have conducted within this country that we have not already

discussed this afternoon?

A

NO.

A

Any political activities? Any operations?

No. Not really. Of course, we have used certain

select individuals to what we call hand-hold defectors, Cuban

defectors. In other words, live with them until they are

resettled and this type of thing. And this is another activity

they engaged in. But other than that, I can't think of any-

thing else.

Do you know of any criminal activities that have

been attribited to --

A

been proven.

I have heard of some allegations which have never

What are the allegations?

A

The allegations concern break-ins and surveillances

and this type of thing.

Have those allegations been made with any fre-

quency?

NH 50955

DocId: 32203851 Page 107

Well, I forget who it was. It was during the

SECRET

---

## Page 108

11

SECRET

Phone (Area 202) 544-0000

PAUL

WARD

D.C. 20003

410 Firsi Strect, S.E., Washington,

1

2

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

105

Watergate trial.

Some of these allegations that came out

and I think they were carried in the Anderson column but we

made file checks and this type of thing. One particular

activity was supposed to have been carried out in Rockefeller

Center in New York and it turns out it was taken out of

context.

It was a training mission and -- training exercise.

These guys were being trained in surveillance in New York

and they were simply asked to go into a branch of the Manhattan.

- Chase Manhattan and to come back out and then they were

supposed to diagram the layout of the bank. And this to some

of them meant casing the bank when in fact it was just a

memory exercise.

with what frequency were those kinds of training

exercises conducted?

A

Well, whenever there was an -- whenever it was felt

that these people,

selected individuals, were to be trained

in trade craft.

And did their trade craft training include such

things as surveillance?

A

Sure.

And break-ins?

A

No. Not break-ins. Nor surreptitious entry. As I

24

said, in the case of this particular thing, it was misinter-

preted as casing the bank. These exercises were given -- they

25

could have walked into your office, your outer office and

NN 50955 DocId:32203851 Page 108

CECDET

---

## Page 109

SECRET

12

!

Phone (Area 202) 544-6000

& PAUL

WARD

NW 50955

1

2

4

5

==.

6

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

106

said -- the instructor could have said two hours later tell

me what is in that outer office? what is the layout of it?

This is just for observation.

You stated earlier none of those allegations have

been proven.

Have any of them been proved to your

satisfaction?

No. Ithink we disproved them to my satisfaction.

2

I take it you do not believe they took place other

than the training exercise?

A

Oh, no. No. I don't believe they did.

Do you know of any instances where members of that

group have broken in, made any other type of illegal entry

in this country?

NO.

Have you

ever been present at any discussions of

the legality or illegality of maintaining stations like the

Miami Station within this country?

A.

Legality? No.

How about the propriety?

well, to my kno:/ledge, that really never came up.

No one to my knowledge, has ever questioned the legality or

the propriety of having

the Station.

There have been some allegations in the press and

DocId: 32203861

Page 109

elsewhere about possible nisuse of Cuban exiles, members of

that community, by the CIA. Are you aware of those?

CECDET

---

## Page 110

SECRET

107

sh 13

Phone (Arca

202) 544-6000

HW 50955

WARD

410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

1

2

4

5

6

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

• 19

20

21

22

23

No.

We received some correspondence and I have seen some

articles that suggest that the Cuban community is sort of

a resource

that is occasionally tapped by the CIA for various

operations in this country.

A

You mean this country?

Yes. Picketing was one example. There were also some

other examples of unusual activities. Do you have any knowledge

of use by the CIA of Cuban nationals or exiles for any type

• of operation within this country?

A

No.

Do you know whether or not the Agency has provided

any financial support for Cuban businessmen in this country?

A

No. Not to my knowledge.

o ther

Ethan the naintenance ofs cover 2)

A

No.

Establishment of businesses?

A

No.

No?

A

No.

In the course of our discussions today we discussed

the Anons, the AMpuKES various political front groups;

revolutionary front groups. Are there any other emigre.

24

Cuban emigre groups in the Miami area which have been supportes

'25

DocId: 32203851

by the Agency, either financially, or otherwise?

Page 110

---

## Page 111

bh 14

HW 50955

Phone (Area 202) 544-6000

20003

WashIngton, D

S.E.,

410 First Street,

1

2

3

4

5

6

8

9'

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

SECRET

103

A

Not to my knowledge.

Are you familiar with the appendix that was attached

to MI. Colby?s statement?

Yes.

Q

Did you have some role in drafting that?

You mean the Miami Station thing?

Appendix J, entitled, "The Miami Station".

A

Yes.

You wrote

it?

A

Yes.

It has a familiar ring about it. There are referene

to indigenous organizations, emigre organizations. ^e

there any others other than the ones we have been discurs::?

A

Not to my knowledge. There are you know matt

want

to

tan organization. ve didy you know subs ire

the

hel1 out o

Juanita castro.

Yes," an familiar with that.

A

You ace amiliar vich all that and that ishy.

board. now,too

She was doing as

Propagandas

propaganda, broadeasts.

i Yes: 1

Do you have

any

personal knowledge of what kind o

intelligence-gathering activities

are conducted in the "i.

DocId:32203851 Page 111

SECRET

---

## Page 112

SECRET

109

Phone (Area 202)

1

2

3

4

5

6

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

2

25

NN 50955

DocId: 32203861

country, as access agents.

Page 112

area now

the Miami. Station?

There are no domestic activities at all fin thes

Mami, Station's All Cuban activities have been moved back

here to Headquarters. The Miamiestation now is completely

and solely involved in the intelligence in the Caribbean.

Does the Miami Station- I beg your pardon --

does the Headquarters component that now handles the Cuban

situation in Miami run any agents in the

Cuban community?

A

No. Well, let me explain that to you. We do have

a career agent who has been with us for a good many years

in Miami and we do use him to contact relatives of Cubans

who are still in Cuba. I mean, relatives who are in the U.s.

who have relatives in Cuba.

Now, this is done principally with the idea of a

recruitment target, determine weaknesses of strengths, this

type of thing. He does contact these people all over tha

United States. If we come across an individual that looks like

he might be recruitable, or perhaps we could even double hin,

we will, after we make our preliminary assessment, and we

find out where relatives and these types of people are, we

will ask this career agent or instruct him to go contact

these people, be it New York, New Jersey, Chicago, or what-

ever.

So you use Cuban, now citizens or aliens in this

---

## Page 113

SECRET

110

16

PAUL

WARD

1

2

4

5

6

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

A

Right.

Just like foreign associates would do.

Exactly.

• Are there any more people like Bernard Barker who

are contract employees of the Agency who still work in the

Miami-Cuban community?

No. None.

That entire apparatus has been --

ilas been dismantled.

-- dismantled. What is the currentasize of the

Niams Station?

I really don't know but it suns between litand 14

as far as I know. I think it will be llby the next fiscal

year.

MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

MR-MANFREDI: Let's go back on the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI :

There are presently no Cuban Ops being conducted out

20

• of Miami?

21

A

No. All Cuban Ops. are being conducted out of

22

Headquarters.

23

24

And even from the Headquarters location there are

no paramilitary operations?

25

No.

IW 50955 DocId: 32203851 Page 113

SECRET

---

## Page 114

SECRET

111

17

HW 50955

Phone (Area 202) 544-6000

410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

1

2

3

4

5

6

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

2'

No covert -- vell, there is some propaganda activity

being conducted still?

A

On a very small scale, and the covert action facility

that we had, the radio, taped program, is being terminated

by 30 June.

So for all practical purposes, it is terminated

now.

The Mani Stationg is under official cover.

A

Yes.

2

And it has been decreased to how many people?

Between 32s and 24

And it has absolutely no responsibilities with

respect to Cuba?

Absolutely none.

And its responsibilities are entirely direcied to

other Latin American countries?

To Caribbean countries.

Caribbean countries. And I trust that there are

other Agency stations in the Caribbean?

A

Yes.

well, I

have no

further questions, MI. Sturbitts.

If you have anything you would like to add you are welcone

to do so.

No, I have nothing.

I want to thank you on behalf of myself and the

25

Commission for your cooperation.

DocId: 32203851

Page 114

CErOET 1

---

## Page 115

ish 18

SECRET

112

544-6000

1

2

3

Phone (Area

5

6

A

A

sure.

I am sorry ve had to take so much of your time.

That is all right.

Thank you again.

(Whereupon, at 3:35 o'clock p.m., the taking of the

deposition was concluded.)

WARD & PAUL

410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

NW 50955

DocId: 32203851 Page 115

SECRET

---