Agency: FBI
Originator: CITIZEN
From: HARRELSON, LEONARD H.
To: HAWKINS, LEX
Document date: 06/21/1967
Document type: PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

## Page 1

JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM

IDENTIFICATION FORM

AGENCY INFORMATION

Released under the John F.

rennedy Assassination Records

Collection Act of 1992

144 USC

2107 Notel.

Case#: NT 54046

Date: 08-23-2017

AGENCY: FBI

RECORD NUMBER: 124-10054-10414

RECORD_ SERIES: HO

AGENCY FILE_NUMBER: 62-109060-5483

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR: CITIZEN

FROM:

TO:

TITLE:

DATE: 06/21/1967

PAGES: 10

SUBJECT:

GARRISON, JIM INVESTIGATION, POLYGRAPH

DOCUMENT TYPE:

ORIGINAL

CLASSIFICATION:

REVIEW DATE:

STATUS

PAPER. TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

Unclassified

NEW

CLASSIFICATION:

11/06/1998

Redact

UPDATE DATE:

01/19/2001

RESTRICTIONS:

JFK Act 6 (4)

COMMENTS:

NW 54046 DocId:32136897 Page 1

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## Page 2

# 9816-67

June 21, 196%

CONFIDENTIAL

Lex Hawkins,

Attorney at Law

836-842 Fifth Avenue

Mes Moines, lowa

ARRANGEMENTS:

Towar caly web

At your request, LILLIE MAt

NIC MAINES was eramined on the polygraph, a

TEXaS,

detection o1 deception technique.

nes Motfett

MEXIÇO

PROCEDURE:

Sandre Herotfett

mis Harold Xin mainés)

stancard polygraph procedure was exercised throughout this examination.

RESULTS:

LilliE maE (sandRa

PERUIN

Mis James

Robert

Subject was esamined in this office on June 13, 1967. She was given a Relevant

and Irrelevant type examination for the purpose of ascertaining i she possesaed

any knowledge of an alleged mecting in Dave Ferrie's home wherein there was

verbal intercourse relating to a plot to assassinate the late John F. Kennedy.

During the pre-test interview, the Subject stated that she was

• boan Lillie Mac

spoilott on October 22, 1941, in Lucedale, Mississippi. She stated that her real

nother died when her younger sister was born and that'she was raised by one of

per father's cousins, James/iosett, and his wife Ethel. She referred to these

people as her parents. She stated that she was raised near Mobile, alabana: -

She said that she does not know whother or not Jarnes and Ethel Moftett ever

adopted her.

Bapprox 1929

Subjuct stated that she is presently married to tarole cliaines, aged 38 years.

She said that he docs not bave a regular job and worke out of an "employment

office" in Omaha, Nobraaka, as a truck driver and as a furniture mover.

La

The Subject stated that over since she was old enough to understand

and remember,

her "mother" constantly told her that her older sister Gertruce,

who lived in Now

Orleans, Louiaiana, was "a tramp and no good." She stated that these statement»

62-109060-5483

COPIES DESTROYED

4 A JAN 1 5 1973:

ENCLOSURE

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Page 2

Mr. Hawkins

June 21, 1967

RE: Lillie Mae McMaines

RESULTS (cont'd):

finally caused her to run away from home in 1902 and procecd to New Orleans

to locate her

sister Gertrude. She said that she just had to find out is her

sister was really "bad."

During six hours of interview and interrogation, the Subject gave the following

information regarding her stay in New Orleans, her return to Mobile, Alabama,

then on to San Bernacino, California, then back to New Orleans, then to Omaha,

Nebraska, and linally to Des Moines, lowa.

Subject stated that when the first went to New Orleans she decided to use the

narne Sanura voilett. She explained that she had been in Now Orleans for appro:-

imately three weeks before hor sister perinitied her to go out "on the town" by

herself. She said that the lirat night ahe went out alone she met Perry kusso La

The said that the meeting occurred about 10:30 P.

bourbon Street and that Perry Russo, "Ken. ""Letty

do its she was walking down

Petersonland "Timmy" were

also walling along Bourbon Stroct. She related thef as they passed on the strect,

Timmy winked at her and she smiled. She continued that they nil stopped on the

sidewalk and talked. She said that during this conversation,

Perry Russo volun-

veered to drive her home.

GeoRGe. "Lefty"

She continued that she, Perry Russo, leity, Kon and Timmy all got into Perry'3

car and proceeded to drive toward hor sister's home where the was staying but

they stopped on the way for coffee and gasoline. She said that Perry Russo asted

her if she would go to school with him the following morning and she replied to him

that she would

,8o with him provided her sister would permit her to do so.

She continued that Perry Russo stopped by the house the following morning but her

sister would not perinit her to go with him out her sister did agree that she could

attend a party that was being given for Kennial that night.

La

Subject stated that that party was held at a place called the Frenchman's Inn. She

said that Perry was supposed to pick her up at 8:00 P.M. but he was late because

it was raining hard. She said that she and Perry arrived at the party at appro:i-

mately: 9:00 P.M.

I'he Subject stated that she and Perry continued to date until the early part of 1963.

She said that she became pregnant and after she told Perry that she was pregnant

he told her to "get lost" until after the baby was born and then she should look him

• up again.

i:

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Pago 3

Mr. Hawkins

Junö 21, 1967

RE: Jillie Mao McMaines

RESULTS (cont'd):

The Subject stated that when she first told Perry Russo that she was pregnant,

a man (unknown to her) placed Perry in a hypnotic trance and questioned him.

She said that while in the trance, Perry acknowledged that he was the father oi

her yot unborn baby. She said that Perry later denied that he was the

father.

She went on to explain that she,

Perry, and the unknown "hypnotist" (she des-

cribed his age as between 40 and 50 ycars) went to a place called the Royal

Castle and, while there, this unknown 'hypnotist" again placed Perry in a

hypnotic trance. She said that he did not question Perry at this tirne but gave

Mira a post-hypnotic suggestion, "When I snap my fingers you will awaken, get

off the stood, walk to the door and then return to the stool where you will freere

in your tracks and will be unable to movc." She said that when the man snapped

his lingers, Perry opened his eyes, got off the stool, walked to the door and

then turned

and walked back to the stool. She said that Perry stood by the stool

and went through what appeared to be attempts at moving his body but he did pot

actually move. She added that, in her opinion, Perry was faking his inability to

move while standing by the stool.

Subject said that the next time she saw Perry (alter telling hird that she was

pregnant) was a very short tire later and she spent about one hal hour talking

with him in his home. She said that when she departed his home, a friend of his

named "Fido" knocked her down on the lawn, hit her in the stomach with his fist,

and made the comment,

"Why don't you leave him alons?". She explained that she

screamed loudly when struck by Fido hoping tiat Perry would come outside bit

to did not. She said that Fido went into Perry's home after knocking her down

and striking her. She said that as soon as she regained her sense of direction,

she got up and went home.

The Subject stated that when she was about three months pregnant, she attempted

suicide by taking 175 aspirin. She raid

that a girl friend named Kathy found her

and tool: her to the Charity Fospital in New Orleans by toxicab. She said that her

stomach was pumped at the hospital and she said that the hospital notified the

police departinent but her girl friend Kathy talked the oificer out of taking her to

jail.

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Page &

Mi. Hawkins

Jure 21, 1907

RC: Lillie Mac Movaines

RESULTS (cont'd):

Subject stated that when she was about four monthe pregnant, she married a

Iran Adams in Dallas, Teas. She did not tell the circumstances surrounding

a divorce froin Adams.

The Subject stated that when she was between 15 and 16 years of age, her

"another" took her to a psychiatrist because she had run away irom home.

She

Wais that she visited the psychiatrist about four times bui she did not know what

he roported about her.

Subject related that she gave bicth prematurely on August 30, 1963. She said

that ane was released from the hospital on September 3rd or 4th, 1963:

She said

that she went to Porry Russo's house the day following her release from the

hospital but she did not see or talk with him again until June or July of 1962.

Subject then related how Perry Russo photographed her on several occasions

while she was engaging in the aci of coitus with different roch. She explained

thet Perry bad his own dark room and developed the pictures himselt.

-

Subject then related that she and a girl named Ann visited her baby in the hospital

frequently. She further stated that her "parents" came from Alabama to New

Orleans and also

visited the baby in the hoapital.

Subject continued that her baty was relasad tron tie horse onsent ber 20,

1963, and on this saine dato she leit New. Orleans with a James Robert

(Russo had introduced her to hin:). She said that the two of them and the baby

went by bus to her "parents'" home. She gave her "parents" address as Los 326

a Light Mile, Alabama and she said that this town lo focated pear inobile.

Mu mis James roffett

• Ethel motfett La

She went on to explain that James Robert Ervin was unable to find employment

in Mobile and so he went to Now Orleans and obtained a job in zn establishment

called Little Crystal Cafe. Sho said that this establishment is located on Royal

Street in New Orleans. She said that Jimmy worked and stayed in New Orleans

during the week and he would hitchhike to her "parents" home in Eight wille,

Alabama, over the weekends.

cale

Ala

Ta

MEXICO

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Page 5

Mr. Hawkins

June 21, 1967

RE: Lillie Mae Mclaines

RESULTS (cont'u):

Subject stated that she and Jimmy leit Eight Mile in February of 196% (leaving

the boby with her "mother") and they went to San Bernadino,, California, where

they stayed with an aunt of hers. She said that from the time she left New

Orleans to go to Bight Mile and then to California, she did not make one trip

to New Orleans.

Yubject related that she and Jimmy went through a wedding ceremony in Tiajunna,

Mexico, in June of 1904. She continued that Jimmy left her the latter part of

this same month. She said that the day aiter Jimmy leit her, she went to New

Orleans by bus.

Subject related that when she arrived in New Orleans, she called Perry Russo

and he came to the tus depot and drove her and her personal belongings to his

liome. She said that she spent the night in Perry's apartment and then the follow-

ing day she rented a room for herseli. She said that aiter she ronted the room,

the went job hunting and she mot Jaines Robert Ervin on the street. She said

that they decided to live together again. She said that she did obtain a job as a

parmaid. She said that sho and Jimmy lived together for only one week and he

again walked out on her. She said that he left on July 3, 1961.

The Subject said that she then turned to prostitution as a means of supporting

hersell and in order to save up enough money to get her baby back from her

"mother. " She further explained that she gave Perry Russo "azound a hundred

dollars' to keep for her but he never gave it back to her. She said that on one

§thes uccasion, she loaned Perry $20. 00 to use to pay his insurance but he did

not ropay this money either.

La

The Subject stated that tie first time she met Davelertle was in either the lattor

part of January of the first part of February of 1905. She explained that she was

with Perry Russo and he wanted to see Dave Ferrie about something and so the

tivo of them went to Dave's apartment. She said that Perry introuced her to

Ferrie and his two roommates. She said that they stayed at Dave's apartment

dos only a few minutes and they lett.

decEAsed

2-22-67

7

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Page f

No, Lawkins

June 21, 1907

RE: Tillic woe Wichaines

BESULTS (cont'd):

The Subject said that the next time she saw Dave F'errio was less than a weel:

after firat mecting hit and was on a Sunday. She explained that Dave invited

her to his apartment for lunch with hir and his two roommates. She said that

Dave picked her up at her place in a blue Ford station wagon and they arrived at

Dave's apartment at approMmately 12:30 or 1:00 P.Mi. She said that she stayed

›it this apartmeat mtil about 5:30 P.d. at which sie he drove her back to bei

Wlace.

Subject said that she next saw Dave Ferrie on the following Wednesday or

thursday when he came by Sam's place where she was employed. She said that

Dave asked her li she would go out with him the following Friday night.

fubject said that on this Friday night, Dave picked her up at her apart ent

about 6:00 or 6:30 P.M. and they first proceeded to Dave's apartment where one

di Dava's roommates and his date wore waiting. She said the four of them then

went to sevoral places to dance and drin' but they did not have dinner. Cal

UsSR

Lee HaRvey.

La texas

The Subject emphatically denied ever mecting Show or/Paval.

She said that she

pever attended a party at Dave Ferrie's house. She stated that sho had never beon

to a football gaine but she did attend basketball and baseball games with Perry

Kusso and Lefty Pcterson. i

The Subject stated that Perry Russo was estrembly interested in politics. She

raid that he was a Republican and a strong advocate and backer of Coldwater.

The Subject stated that she attended a political mecting with Perry Russo and

throe other men but she could not be sure of their names. She related that the

meating was beld in a big house on Canal Street in either April or May of 1965.

Sho said that she and three men atayed in a back room of the house and watched

television. She saic that she did not oee all of the people at the meeting. She said

that she did not heai anyone speaking Spanish nor dia she see any Spanish, Cubans

or Puerto Ricans at this mecting•

The Subject commented that Lefty Poterson is "off upstairs" but is a good guy

otherwise.

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Page

Mis. Hawkin's

June 21, 1907

RD: Lillie Mao Mclaines

RESULTS (cont'ú):

The Subject esplained that Porry Russo habitually made notes about everything-

She said that he made notes of things he had to do, the timos he was supposed to

be somowhere, and places he had to go. She said that Perry told her be inade

notes of everything because he was so busy that he did not want to forget anything.

possibly a homosexual

The Subjoot explained that on one occasion she went to Perry's housc and Mike

if itugerald was there. She said that mike told her that he had just dound ferty

in the bachoom with his wrists all slashed up and that he had tried to coramit

suicide. She said that she thon left and did not see Perry.

The Subjact statod that whea Perry first introduced hor to Jimmy Ervin, he

suggested they all go to Jimmy's apartment and he would like to make photographs

of her and Jimmy ehgaging in coitus. She said that a girl friend of hers named

Jeannis became very angry with Perry when he made this suggestion. She said

they did not go.

The Subject stated that the most men

she cvor

engaged in sexual intercourse with,

one Immediataly following the other, woul batwo. She said that these vere tro

men she hustled when she was sorting as a prostitute. She related that she

hustled one man one night and he went into the bothroom niter undressing. she

said that she locked him in the bathroom, took gaz0. 0u from his pocket and ran

out of tho room. Sho stated that on one occasion Perry wanted to photograph her

and a girl named Kathy engaged in a son act together but she said that someona

came in unexpectedly and the act was never consummated.

The Subject related that two investigators from District Attorney Garrison's

office came to ber home in the middlo o: the night of March 8, 1907, ia Omaha.

She said that they requested her to leave immediately with them and returi to

Now Orleans for the purpose of looking at some photographs. She said that they

told her that they did not know what the photographs were. She continued that she

told them that she could not leave then because she had a coat and other clothing

in the cleaners. She said that these two man, Simms and Jonah, told let not to

worry---they would buy her some now clothes. She said that they further sold her

that she would stay in the finest hotels and eat the finest ioods.

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Page &

Wii.

Hawkins

June 21, 1907

R: Lillie Mac Mcktaines

RESULTS (cont'u):

She continued that her husband (Harold vicvaines) spoke up and stated that he.

did not want to let her go and that he wanted to consult with an attorney. She

said that the two investigators thon offered to buy a ticket for her husbend

also. She said that after her husband insisted on taliing with an altorney first,

the two investigators told her husband not to consult with an attorney because

she might got hurt if be did and they wanted to keep everything quiet. She said

ther they did leave however.

•Tho Subject explained that she told this entire story to a reporter naired

Zimmerman with the World-Herald in Omaha. Sho said that after the story

appeared in print she and her husband both lost their jobs. She went on to relate

that the reporter Zinmerman told her that she noeded an attorney and arranged

for her to meet attorney Lex Hawkins.

The Subject was given four separate tests and was

astica the following relevant

questions and gave the answers' indicated:

First Test:

Do you have any intention of trying to lie to me during this test? A. No.

Q.

liave you told me the complete truti since we have been talking? A. Yes.

Did you attend the party at Ecrric's home that Perry claims you ettended?

A.

No.

Did you ever meet Shaw? A. No.

9.

Are you doliberately trying to withhold any incormation from me regarding

the party? A. No.

Second Test:

Q. Have you told me the complete truth here today? A. Yes.

Q. Did you attend the party Perry says you did? A. No.

Q. Are you trying to withhold any information from me regarding this case?

A. No.

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Page 9.

Mr. Hawlins

Juno 21, 1957

Re: Lilio triae vevainos

RESULTS (sont'd):

Third Test:

N.

Did you lie to Mr. Hawkins at all? A. Yes.

Did Porry over toll you tist the Presidont was going to be assassinated?

A. No.

Did you so to the party at Dave's house that Perry says you did? A. No.

Are you attempting to protect or cover up for anyone? A. No.

Are you trying to hold back any intormation from me now? A. No.

sourth Test:

Q.

$2.

Have you told mo the complete truth hore today? A. Yes.

Would you lie i it would help you stay out of jail? A. Yes.

Ware you ever present when any people tallod about assassinating the

President? A. No.

Is Perry telling the truth about you attending the party? A. No.

Are you attempting to withbold any jatormation from ne now? A. No.

Have you purposely liod to any of my questions? A. No.

Daring the first three testo, hes polygrams contained reactions to the relevant

question: "Are you trying to withhold or conceal any information from me?''

Following the third test, she explained that she suspects Perry Russo might be

"a little gueer" for Millic Fitzgerald. There was not a reaction to the question

In the test following this explanation.

The Jubjoet was asked by this examiner why she thought Perry Russo was telling-

this story. She explained that the last time she saw him, which was in June of

July of 195s, he asked her if she would marry him. She stated thet he said that

he wanted to marry her so that he wouldn't have to go into the military service.

She statod that she told him she would not marry bit. She then quoted him as

caying, "You have got to marry me and help keep me out of the service." She

statod that she again told him she would not marry him and then lurther quoted

him as saying, "If you won't marry me, I'll have to find someone else who will."

She added that she believes he is tolling this stogy in an endeavor to avoid going

into the military service.

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Mr.

Hawiina

June 21, 1967

CONCLUSION:

RD: Lillie Mae McMaines

Altos caroful analysio of thie Subjock's polygrams, it io the opinion of the

ozaminer that she told substantially the truth during her examination and

interrogation.

Rana

idstitaselso

Leonard H.

Farrelson

LEONARDE KEELER, INC.

11H/mad

11.;

HH 54046

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