REPORT OF INTERROGATION-TODAY'S INTERROGATION CONSISTED OF TWO SHORT SESSIONS.
Agency: CIA
Originator: CIA
From: TED
To: MFR
Document date: 07/30/1965
Document type: PAPER-TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

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104-10211-10060

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AMORANDON FOR THE RECORD

SUBJECT: REPORT OF INTERROGATION

DATE:

30 July 1963

1.

Today's interrogation consisted of tuo sbort semalon

(1410-1515, add 1610-1650).

Subject vas confronted with proof

of bis errors on Konsonol regulations, and alao of basic

ceorgraphy in kaliningrad Oblast.

Questioning was confined

to those too areas, and illl be described belor. In addition,

there noro some interosties additional indications that

Subject say have opent sose timo in Soviet jall or prison

2. KOMSOMOL:

Dospite a number of loading questions and hints,

Subject was unable to recall that Konsonol Congress (the

lath) took place 1a February 1954, abile he vas allegedly

the Secretary of the SCD K/O. If be had really been a

Konsonol Secrotary at the time be-should remember the Congress

very voll, since be would bave been involved in its preparation.

Told about it, Subject sald that much Congresses toot place

proctically every year.

This la false; the previous Konsomol

Congress, the Ilts, vas 1a 1949.

b) Subject again stated that he was. sure that the

malmn age for Jonsonol mombors at that time mas 27.

Subject

as show the pertinent fouronol reguntions for the period,

which provide that the mrimn age is 26.

Subject simply

contined to luaist that he le sure that

he vas excluded

from the Konsonol in 1954 when he reached the age of 37, and®

that no exceptions vere made for bie.

He did not comment on

how he could be wrong on the regilations 1f be had been a

Konsonol Secretasy.

In the discussion of Konsonol regulations, Subject

contined to insist that the dues voro 2% fur all menberg.

He spotted the paragraph about 2% entry does in the regulationa

that vers show to bin and sa d that monthly does were

identical •1th entry dues.

m1s 18 not so, but as ve do not

have a copy of the 1949 memborahip does scale, I was not

able to sir bia documentary prool of bis error.

печь

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Subject was again unable to describe how he was

permnently registered as a member of the MVD K/0, bou be

performed his daties as a Secretary or what these duties

vere in connection with the lith Donsonol Congress, or to

mune the Secretary of the IVD K/O.

credible errors, and gave such lame descriptions of his work,

that lt ia neceasary to conctude that he did not serve there

as an intelligence officer, aud that if he has ever vinited

that area at all it vas only very briefly.

a)

Subject not only vas unable to

name the Chief of

Intelligence of the ith Naval Fleet, he couid not even give

him proper title bo instated that bia official designation

was "nachalnik razvedki;"

actually, of course, It should be

"nachalalk rarvedyvatelnogo upravleniya" of the ith fleet).

b)

Subject does not know the nane of his lundiate

comanding officer, the chief of the MaP.

Subject did not

know the names of

more than two of bia fellow officers at

the 1P. In an effort to anever this question he cave a

mane - YELISITEY - that be had not once mentioned when under

nilar prossure 18 Apr1l 19C1; 1t 18 apparent that be invented

it on the spot.

subjoct continued to inniet that he served In'

•govotak, Primornkly Kray."

Subject was then shown a up..

und found that the mane of the place where he had allegedly?

norred was 10 fact Primorst.

Subject said that be couldn't

understand why he had remembered it as Sovetsk, and said

that he had never been in the city of Bovetsk.

Subject was

also shown the Adninistrative-Territorial Divisions of the

UBSB, and conceded that there is no Primorskly Kray in the

Soviet Union except the one in tbe Far Bant.

Again, he bad

no explanation for his error.

Oddly, after initially con-

coding his error, fron time to tine Subject continued to

may that be thought that be was probably right after all,

and that the village of Sovetal vas too sall to appear on

the map that he was shown.

In describing his initial arrival at the HIP,

Bubjoct said that be arrived In Kalingrad, then had to go?

by car fron Inliagrad to Baltiyai becalise there vas no.

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railoay. to. Baltiyak.

He then went by ca. fron Baltiyak to

Primorak.

•== not. told this, bovever.)

Bubject admitted that. he did not do any operational

work at the MIP, and aaid that was why be was dissatistied

and wanted & transfer.

However, Subject could not give a

detalled or believable description of what bia

duties sere.

As be bad done so often in the past, be attempted to divert

the questioning by launching into what is evidently a pro-

pared lecture about the concept of atay-behind operations.

He was cut off.

1.

(NOTE:

In talking about bia service In Kaliningrad

Oblast, Subject has mentioned Primorah, Sovetsk, and Zelenogradek.

It 1a

Interesting that

towns of identical or closely giailar

names also exiat in Leningrad Oblast: Prinorsk, Sovetekty, and

Zelenogorsk.

Botb Zelenogradar and Zelenogorsk are resorts.

The Prinorsk and Sovietskly in Leningrad Oblast are both on

the. coast, about 10-12 kilometers fron oach otber.

Bearing

1n mind that Subject has previously described working. 1n she

woods in Leningrad Oblast in 1915 under conditions that sound

very sinilar to forced labor, 1t 18 possible that there in

sone clue here as to hon Subject's legend was prepared. At

this stage, however; 1t 1a not posaible to draw any 11rm

conclusions and thi coincidence is simply noted for future.

reference.

5. In the course of the four days of interrogation to

inte, there bave been a mmber of indications which tend to

confir previous inpressions that Subject may have spent

some time as a prisoner in a Soviet jall or prison camp.

have not been noted in the previous inter

rogation reports 1t may be convenient to sumarize thei

bere:

On 38 July Subject made the intriguing ronnis,

"tyurennyy opyt otrabatyvalsya."

This val 1n anever to my

question about hon be kept track of the days.

D)

On 30 July, Subjec, voluntarily Isunched Into a

long and detailed explanation of bon he keeps track of the

days In hie present circumstances.

A possible explanetion

for this unsolicited description in

that subject had reflected

on the inplications of his remilk on 38 July.

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c)

On 28 July, while I vas asking Subject about the

mumbor

of bis

Party naberabip card (which he did not remamber)

Subject said, "I don't even remember my personal KGB number.".

I Immediately asked Subject when such personal serial numbers

had been instituted in the KGB, and he replied that be didn't

renabor, that no one carried them with them but kept them in

the safe, that they were intended for wartime purposes.

CONKIT: Personal serial numbors never exiated either.

in the army or in the

KGB, and to the best of our know-

ledge they do not exist nou.

The only place in Soviet

society whore such numbors existed in in the prison

camps:

this vas one of the chief grievances and cou

plaints that

the prisoners made in the famour Vorkute

uprisings of 1953.

vorking in the forests cutside of Leningrad for two montha

C2222

d) In provioua interrogations Subject has described

The conditiona that he described sound such more

Although tattooing is certainly practised to some

estent in the Soviet Navy, Komsonol and Party pressures

restrict this to a considerable degree.

The number and estent

of Subjoct's-tattoos in more characteriatic of young jailbirdo..

Subject's account of the handabooting episode

"REMBER One pOssible way that be might have mound up i

ertainly this incident could not have been caren &

igntly in vartine as he vould have us believe.

Subject's story about a 15 day dentence. in the

lyubyanka because of the veneral disease incident suggeste

help hin in passing the polygraph.

Subject's earlier accounts about fighting at Tuapse,

running away from school, etc. also have several refersaces:

to prison that may be significant.

le once referred to the

military unit in wbich he allegedly Joined in Baku as a "ponal.

battalion", he returned to the school "ander guard," upon

arrival in Moscow he was "arrested.!

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Ted

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