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157-10002-10087

2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992

Date: 09/30/93

Page: 1

JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM

IDENTIFICATION FORM

AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : SSCIA

RECORD NUMBER : 157-10002-10087

RECORDS SERIES :

TRANSCRIPTR

AGENCY FILE NUMBER : R-352

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : SSCIA

•ROM :

TITLE :

TESTIMONY OF SAMUEL HALPERN

DATE : 06/18/75

PAGES : 89

SUBJECTS :

CUBA

ASSASSINATION

CASTRO

MAFIA

SPECIAL GROUP

BISSELL

LANSDALÉ, EDWARD

HARVEY

OPERATION MONGOOSE

ZOGBEY

POISON

AMLASH

5412 COMMITTEE

ZRRIFLE

TASK FORCE W

MAHEU, ROBERT

DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

CLASSIFICATION : T

RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED

CURRENT STATUS : P

DATE OF LAST REVIEW: 09/30/93

OPENING CRITERIA :

[R] - ITEM IS RESTRICTED

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JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM

IDENTIFICATION FORM

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Box 245

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The Chairman. The hearing will come to order.

I would like to ask Mr. Schwarz if he would give us

brief synopsis of what we intend to question our witness

about this morning.

Mr. Schwarz. The witness this morning will only be a

single witness.

He is Mr. Samuel Halpern.

He was in the

Far East, and I have now found out he was involved in thei

Sukarno moving and some alleged killing of an agent in

Tailand, which are collateral matters that we may want to

take up with him at the end.

But he came back here in the fall of 1961 and was in-

structed as assistant to get into the Cuban matter. And

he will testify that he was told that they would proceed

to overthrow the Castro government, and that there were no

holds barred.

He will then describe the way in whch they worked

with the Special Group.

The Chairman. What was Halpern's position?

MI. Schwarz. Halpern's position was as Executive

Assistant to Harvey. And Harvey, you will remember, was the

man that was actually in charge of the Cuban position.

The Chairman. When are we going to get Harvey?

Mr. Schwarz.

He is coming next Wednesday morning.

We are going to get some of this same conflict between

the no-holds-barred testimony, which in his mind I guess he

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Mr. Halpern. Yes, sir.

Mr. Schwarz.

Who else was present at that meeting?

Mr. Halpern. A Mr. Ghose Zogbey..) He was my branch

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Mr. Schwarz.

Is he alive today, or is he dead?

Mr. Halpern. He died last year.

Mr. Schwarz. Approximately when in the fall of 1961

did that meeting take place?

MI. Halpern. About the middle of October 1961.

Mr. Schwarz. What instructions were you given by Mr.

Bissell at tht

meeting?

Mr. Halpern. Mr. Bissell said he had recently -- and

he didn't specificy the date or the time -- he had recently

been chewed out in the Cabinet Room of the white House by

borh the President and the Attorney General for, as he put

it, sitting on his ass and not doing anything about getting

rid of Castro and the Castro regime.

His orders to both

(Me Zogbey) and to me were to plan for an operation to

accomplish that end.

Mr. Schwarz. Was any content put into the term

"get rid of", or was that the term that was used, and only

that term?

Mr. Halpern. To the best of my recollection, that was

it. There was no limitation of any kind. Nothing was for-

bidden, and nothing was withheld. And the objective was to

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remove Castro and his regime.

Mr. Schwarz. And did you talk about tactics at all

in that meeting, or was it just a general discussion about

getting organized.

Mr. Halpern. Just a general discussion as to what we would

do, how we would proceed, and what we would need. And at

that point I had no idea how many people were left on the staff

in the branch only having been on the job a day of a day and

a half.

Mr. Schwarz. Shorly after that time did you get put in

contact with a general?

Mr. Halpern. Yes, sir. General Lansdale.

Mr. Schwarz. And what was his function when you were

introduced to him?

MI. Halpern. Both Mr. Zogbey, and I were introduced

to him as the new chief of Operations for a government-wide

effort to accomplish the removal of Castro and the Castro

regime. This effort was to include not only CIA but the

Department of State and the Department of Defense.

And

General Lansdale was to be the Chief of Operations for that

outfit.

Mr. Schwarz. And did you brief him about Cuba or did

he brief you about the operation, of what was the nature of that?

Mr. Halpern. No, we briefed him first in the old

Situation Room, what used to called the Ibell Building, which

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MI. Halpern. It wasn't a matter of General Lansdale's

being in charge, or the Attorney General being in charge,

nobody objected to General Lansdale reporting to the Attorney

General.

It was

a matter of whether this

would be done through

the normal chain of command, of whether we would actually be

under the General's direct command.

Mr. Schwarz. But it still is a chracterization, you

were dealing with organization and bureaucracy?

Mr. Halpern. That is right.

And drafting papers.

Mr. Schwarz. Drafting papers to do what?

Mr. Halpern. Io try to get organized in terms of how

we would accomplish the objective.

Mr. Schwarz. Did any of those papers that you drafted

in those early stages include any reference to assassination

as a device to accomplish the objective?

Mr. Halpern. No, sir.

Mr. Schwarz. Now, did Mr. Helms enter the picture in

the latter part of December 1961?

Mr. Halpern. That is correct.

Mr. Schwarz. Describe how he came into the picture.

Mr. Halpern. Io my knowledge, Me Zogbey described

to

me a meeting he had been at at the Director's morning staff

meeting -- this is Mr. McCone's morning staff meeting -- in

which Mr. McCone, almost in terms of a bombshell for the

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group at the meeting, stated that Mr.

Helms would henceforth

be - the words were, his man on Cuba. This was something

that nobody in the room apparently had any inkling of, and

particularly Mr.Helms, nor Meetlogbey.

The Chairman. May I ask you to repeat that?

I am sorry, I just didn't catch it.

MI. Halpern. At a meeting sometime in December 1961,

which was the morning staff meeting that the Director held, and

Ma Logbey) was present --

Mr. Schwarz. But you were not?

MI. Halprrn

I was not, I got this from Ma, Zogby --

the Director, MI. McCone, announced that Mr. Helms would be

his man on Cuba, Mr. Helms would then be the Chief of Operations

for the Deputy Director of Plans, and Mr. Bissell was in the

room as the DDP.

Mr. Helms had no inkling of this before the meeting,

and so stated to (Ma*ogbey,

and even asked Ma

azogby, if he had

had any inkling before the meeting.

Mrs Zogbey told me that he had none whatsoever.

Mr. Schwarz. Did Mr. Helms then

come and visit your

new organization and tell you to make

some changes?

Mr. Halpern. Yes. He came to

Mer Zogbey's office and looked

at the list of officers, male and female, who were still

working in the branch. Most of them were the remnants of the

people from the old Bay of Pigs operation who had not yet been

reassigned.

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involved in this operation?

That was the

first reference

I

recall to a female operative.

Mr. Schwarz. There

was no such previous evidence.

Mr. Halpern. We had a number of female officers, and

still do, in our branches. And there were some in the Cuban

branch and the Cuban task force.

Senator Huddleston.

What types of

activities did they

participate in?

Mr. Halpern. Oh, recruting of agents, the handling

of agents, disseminating reports, preparing propaganda guid-

ances, preparing papers for a special group as appropriate.

doing the work of any other officer.

Senator Huddleston. Can you name one or suggest one

that was heavily involved in the assassination attempt?

Mr. Halpern. Oh, I don't know of any in the assassina-

tion attempt per se.

Senator Huddleston. You don't know of any?

Mr. Halpern. No, sir.

Senator Huddleston. Thank you.

The Chairman. Senator Mondale?

Senator Mondale. I am sorry I cam e in late, MI. Hal-

pern, and missed some of your testimony. As I came in you

were saying that orders came from somewhere to get off your

ass.

Mr. Halpern. yes, sir. Mr.Bissell told Mcizogbey:

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cers whose objective would be to plan for the overthrow of

the Castro regime.

Mr. Smothers. Was it your understanding that these

plans were to extend to assassination?

MI. Halpern. That word was not used, sir. But no

holds were barred, and we had no limitation.

Mr. Smothers. Let me ask you it another way. What was

your understanding of what Mr. Bissell had been told to do

by the President and the Attorney General?

MI. Halpern. To get rid of Castro and the Castro regime

on the Island of Cuba.

Mr. Smothers. Did MI. Bissell convey to you the idea

that that included killing Castro?

Mr. Halpern. The subject never came up per se.

Mr. Smothers. What did you come away from that meeting

expecting to do?

MI. Halpern. We were very hard put to come upwwith

any real ideas. We didn't know what to do, frankly. And we

went back - one thing we both agreed on, bothbogbey, and

I, is that we were not going to come up with a piece of

paper which said this was going to be easy or could be done

overnight, or could be done with mirrors.

The Chairman. Did you come away after your conversation

with Mr. Bissell with the idea that he had instructed you

to come up with a plan of some kind designed to overthrow,

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The Chairman. I would like to take this and several

other questions up with the committee,

one of which deals

with the question of the August recess.

And I want to

confer with you on that, too.

How many more questions do you have?

Mr. Schwarz. Instead of asking the other questions I will

ask whether he knows anything about them, and we could bring

him back later if he does.

Do you know anything about the film

ordes

by showing immora-activit.yon his

to discredit Ma

part?

MI. Halpern. Yes, sir.

Mr. Schwarz. We will bring you back on that.

The Chairman. Can we get that done now?

Mr. Schwarz. Such

Im was made sin

Hollywood

was it?

Mr. Halpern. I don't know where it was made, sir,

but I know it was made.

Mr. Schwarz. It was

made in the

U.s.?

MI. Halpern. As far as I know it

was.

Mr. Schwarz. And was that done under your direction?

Mr. Halpern. Well, it was done at the Far East Division

request, and I was the one who did the negotiating with the

Office of Security.

Mr. Schwarz. And was the plan that (aIm would show.

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- sexu

woule

the Rysstans.in

Sukarno purporting, to have

tywith some females and thats then the filmy

in Indonesia, and twould be attributed to

Somenfashion?

Mr. Halpern. No, sir, that was not the plan at all.

Mr. Schwarz.

What was the plan?

Mr. Halpern.

The plan was to have (sucha famefrom

whach.wercould.makesfiim, which we could use in the propaganda

activity

against

Sukasso

ven terms of him being close to the

Russtanse begause.the.womanswas.supposed.to-beathe.Russian

blonde woman that was assigned to Mr Sukarna as escort.

officer

when he

visited the Soviet Union, sand thenawent back

and stayed withuhim for some time in Indonesia.

Mr. Schwarz.

In short, it was

assake, movie which was

designed to put MeaSukarno in an undesirable light, b

Showing

that he was having relationsswithesome Russian

female?

MI. Halpern. And, therefore, fin Russian control.

Senator Mondale. How was

that

m supposed to get to

indones 1a?

Mr. Halpern. It wasn't la.

film.

The original plan was

to usefalips from it in propaganda leaflets, and pamphlets,

and things like that, just pictures. fromthe film.

Mr. Schwarz. Who authorized that?

Mr. Halpern.

amet who was

then Division Chief.

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Mi. Schwarz.

authorized it?

Mr. Halpern.

Do you know if any higher authority

Not offhand, no, sir, personally I don't

know.

Mr. Schwarz.

And was it done, of was it turned off?

I mean, the picturest weres taken?

MI. Halpern. The piature was taken, and that was the

end of it.

Mr. Schwarz. And Mr. Maheu was used

• to accomplish it?

MI. Halpern. I have no idea whatsoever.

Mr. Schwarz. And were {the chips used in indonesia?

Mr. Halpern. No, they were not.

Mr. Schwarz. Why not?

Mr. Halpern. We didn't have any proper outlets to

get it done.

Mr. Schwarz. You had the thin,

distribute it in Indonesia?

MI. Halpern.

Notsther Im. but. the clips:

but you had no way to

Mr. Schwarz.

What, do you know abo

fra

pesson

Iled

Mr. Halpern. The name is brand new to

me, sir.

Mr. Schwarz. Do you know anything about the

CIA employee or associate in

thai land

the

1950 s

Mr. Halpern. No, sir.

MI. Schwarz.

ou k

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such

person

sticipated al

an call

ed

D

lenna

an

oneacalled: Peters

MI. Halpern. That I participated?

No, sir.

Mr. Schwarz.

now

anything about

with a

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MI. Halpern. No, sir. I was only in Bangkok, I think,

once in my life.

Mr. Schwarz. That doesn't ring a bell at all?

Mr. Halpern. No, sir.

Mr. Schwarz. Do you know about any other killings?

Mr. Halpern. No, sir.

The Chairman. Any other questions?

Senator Schweiker. I just want to say, Mr. Chairman, that

I would like to compliment the witness for some very clear and

impartial answers, instead of the partial amnesia that we have

run into lately.

And I think your kind of candor is very helpful to us

in this committee to do the job. And I think it was very

refreshing to hear some clear-cut specific recommendations of

what did or did not happen.

I just want to thank you.

The Chairman.

I agree.

Thank you very much.

If there are no further questions, I think that completes

the interrogation.

(The witness left the hearing room.)

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