Originator: HSCA
From: FONZI, GAETON
To: BLAKEY, G. ROBERT
Document date: 06/28/1978
Document type: MEMORANDUM

## Page 1

180-10143-10449

2022 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992

THIS COPY IS NOT

FOR RELEASE.

MEMORANDUM - June 28, 1978

TO:

G. Robert Blakey

RETURN TO CIA

Background Use Only

Do Not Reproduce

# 009005

FROM:

Fonzi & Gonzales

CIA HAS NO OBJECTION TO

DECLASSIFICATION AND/OR

RELEASE OF THIS DOCUMENT:

AS SANITIZED

RE:

Intervior with

MANOLO RAY RIVERO

dob: June

13, 1924

Manolo Ray

was intervlewed on June 7, 1978, in the offices

of Ray and Associates, Eggineering Consultants, San Juan,

Puerto Rico.

Background file research indicates that Ray recelved a

graduate

scholarship from the Cuban Ministry of Publla

Works in 1947 to study clull engineering at the Univorsity

of Utah.

He returned to Cuba. In 1949 and was appointed

a designer for the Cuban Natlonal Development Corporation

and then chlef of Its structural department In charge of

bridges and highways.

In 1952 he became project manager

for. Frederick Snare

Corporation of New York in construction

of the Havana Hilton Hotel.

In May, 1957, he organized

the Civic Resistance Movement (MRC), an underground

organization which

supervised

acts of sabotage-against

the Batista regime.

Following the Revolution, Pay was

appolnted Minister of Public Works by Castro In February,

1959.

He officially resigned his position in November,

1959.

Duriag the

interviow, Ray sald that he had boen active in

antI-Castro activlty, organizing underground activity in

Havana, prior to his resignation as Minister of Public.

Works.

His brother, who

reportedly later committed sulcide,

had been arrestad by Castro in March of 1959 for counter-.

revolutionary activity.

Ray sald his anti-Castro

actlvity eventually led to his founding the Revolutionary.

Movement of the People

(MRP) around May of. 1960.

Among

those Ray mentloned

as being also Instrumental: In the

founding of the MRP

were Rufo Lopez-Fresquet and Rogollo

Cisneros.

When asked, Ray sald there were no Americans involved in the

founding of the MRP.

He sald, however, that there

who had been activo. with him in anti-Batista operations and

later gave him support for his anti-Castro actlvitles. His

• "He was very close to me personally and

we considered him like a Cuban," Ray sald. At the time,

wolfe was a salos representative for a kitchon equipment

fIrm and marrled to a Cuban.

After he left Cuba, he was

divorced

and went to work for what-Ray described

as a

telephone company-related firm in Texas. "He died there about

five years ago

at about 55 years old. Ray described Wolfe

as tall; heavily built, with black hair and a round face.

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2.

Although Ray sald he was not as close to him as

he was

to Ira Wolfe, another man who provided antl-Castro support

and was actlve on his own in anti-Castro activity was

jolte's brother-in-law, the brother of his Cuban wifo.

lay said he didn't at the moment remembor his first name.

but his last name was Rosello.

Ray sald he

had

known him

for a number of years because

he worked for a

firm that

sold ceramie. tile and that he had sold the tile for the

tunnel through Havana which Ray had been

bullding in the mid-150s.

in charge of

Rosello, sald

Ray, was somehow

involved in the sale of weapons to

Israel.

Ray belleves

that Holfe's ex-wife, Angela Rosello, may be living in

the Miami area.

Ray sald he had been in touch with Individuals connected

with the American Embassy in Havana both bofore and after

03

-The

astro revolution.

One contact he rocalls was with

Interested in Intelligence and propaganda

and he wanted

to exchange ideas and information concerning the 26th

of July Movement.

Ray said he seemed particularly interested

In.whether.or not there any Communlsts with Castro in

the Sierra Maestra.

After the Revolution, Ray sald, he recelved another request

to meet with Knoel about the

time he went underground with

anti-Castro. actlvlfles.

That was a general meating about

what was happening at the time but It resulted in the setting

up of a channel for the passing of messages between them

later.

Ray said that knoeldid not offor him

any financial support

at the time, büt he later promised equipment which was supposed

ro be air dropped to Mir guerl lasan, the Escambray mountains.

The equipment

never arrived and Knoel later.. told min there

was a "mix up!" sald Ray.

Ray sald he was unfamillar with and had no contact with

Davld Phillips or Col. Sam Kall at the American

Embassy.

Ray sald he first met Antonlo Veclana In Puerto Rico after

Veciana came Into exile.

Although Veclana was a mehber of

his MRP movement at the time, Ray sald that Veciana's

attempt to assassinate Castro In October, 1961, in Havana

was not officially planned or sanctioned

by the Movement.

Ray explained that, as the leader of the MRP, he did not

belleve that leadership assassination should

be a key part

of the Movement's strategy.

He sald It had too many "bad

aspects" to It

as a strategy, the principal one

being it

misled the members of the movement into belleving

that tho

movement would be successful as soon as the opposition

leader

was removed. That, sald Ray, has a "weakening effect" on

a movement's over-all strategy and the reason why he never

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3.

sponsored a plan to assassinate Castro.

"However," sald

Ray, "that doesn't mean

should not take the opportunity

to do so if lt arisas. "

Ray. said bbat,

although he

knew of him and his support of the MRP at the time.

never mat Veclana in Cuba, „i know

that ha Has very closa to Ruío Lopez-Fresquet, the

Minister

of Finance, and that he was working at the bank and that

through Lopez-Fresquet he was able to get some contributions

to the Movement. I know he was very actlve."

Ray sald that he heard through the underground that Veclana

was

planning

the Castro assassination attempt and that he

tiad gotten a bazooka for it.

He later heard that Veclana

himself had left Cuba the day before the assassination

attempt and that he later gave the excuse that he had to

helptsome people escape in a boat and that he had to jump

into the boat himself to do so.

"The story was that the

attempt failed because of the confusion that followed after

ha. loft," said Ray.

Ray said that there

was

no indication at the time that an

American was behind Veciana's planning of the assassination

attempt.

Ho

knew of no

American that Veclana might have

been assoclating with at the time.

Ray said he could not

identify Maurlce Bishop, nor did his characteristics or

sketch resemble anyone he knew, although

he sald there was

some resemblance to a U.S. government official he met in

Tampa-when he first arrived in oxile.

He sald he met

at least four government officlals in Tampa while belng

put up in a notel there, but he wasn't told whether they

were ClA or FBI.

Ray sald he doesn't recall even the name

given to him of the one who

resembled Bishop and he doesn't

recall. that it was "Bishop."

What Ray does recall about his

Initlal debriefing In Tampa

when he entered the U.s. in October or November, 1960,

was that he was eventually told that a Mr. Frank Bender

wanted to talk with him.

• Bender then arrived and he had

a long

conference with him.

Ray sald he got the impression

that Bender was mostly Interested In his philosophy about

how Cuba should be governeen after the overthrow of Castro,

but Ray said he found It

a bit strange that Bender was

specifically Interesded In the future of the King Ranch

in Ray's vision of the future of Cuba.

"I don't think:

he liked my answer.too much," sald Ray, "because I told

him that the most important

thing. was to develop the

overall economy of the country and that, although I had

nothing agalnst the King Ranch, they would have to contribute

more to the

economy of the country: I don't think he llked

that answer too

much."

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4.

(When asked, Ray sald he was not famillar with the name

according to a flle revlow, was associated

Ray sald he subsequently had a number of meetings with

sender in Miami.

of which concerned his and

the

ARp's lolning of the united frente orlor to the

Bay of

Pigs Invasion.

Ray was asked if he was

aware at the

time of the opposition of the ClA's political liaison,

E. Howard. Hunt, to his Jolning the Frente.

Iin his book,

Ray sald he was not specifically aware of Hunt's opposition

to him at the time.

In fact, that he never met

E. Howard Hunt, or "Eduardo," but knew only that the ClA's

"Golden Boy," as he was known, Manolo Artime, had the

parsonal support of a very influential and powerful government

official whoa, Ray said he later found out, was Hunt.

Ray sald that Hunt's portrayal of him in his book and of

his relationship to tha. Frento was misleading.

Ray sald

he was not anxious to Join the Frente and that he resisted

doing so for some timo.

"We were In touch with the leaders

of the front at the time," said Ray, "people lIke Tony

verona, and we tola them, why should we Joln and de so

restralned as you, why should we want. to become part of

the situation just to be like a poker chip with somebody

running the show and not knowing what you are fighting

Ray also sald that because his group was so well

organized within Cuba at the time and had deep underground

penetration, some other exile Cuban groups were also not

anxious to welcome him in the front because they were afrald

he modld take control of it.

Ray

said opposition to him also came from

certain influential

and wealthy anti-Castro Americans who saw

the Frente

as

a "soclal club" where they could have Influence and, If successful

reap their benetlts later In Cuba.

He specifically clted

WIllIam Pawley as one such.

Ray sald he met Pawley only once.

"At the Fime,

he sald,

"there was a lot of heavy

propaganda

gainst us going around Miami.

They were saying "Fidellssimo?

sin Fideli

and that type of thing, accusing us of being

Communists:

One of: the metabers of our organization happened.

to have an

office close to Pawley's and got to meet him and

then arranged a meeting between us.

"SO

•I went to meet him.

It was very Interesting because I found the man very arrogant.

He started discussing Cuba and the future of Cuba and so forth,

and then ho sald he was going to be sincere with me. He sald

he belleved that

when Fidel. was overthrown

it would

be. better

It. were assassinated

and that somebody might just do lt."

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5.

Ray also revealed another instance concerning mention of

assassinating him.

That was shortly after March, 1961,

and the formation of the Cuban Revolutionary Counsél was

announced, with Ray as a key member.

Ray sald he had

a very close friend who had been a detective under Batista

and had also had contact with the FBl both before and

after the Revadution.

Ray chauacterized the friend as

"a very honest man,"

fact he worked under

Batista, and one he trusted.

After the Council was

announced, Ray sald, this friend called him and told him

he had been at a meeting composed of former members of

Batista's Bureau of Investigation, called BRAC, which

Ray characterized as "a repressive organizatlon."

Ray.

sald: "One of those at this meeting In this house In

Mlaml told my frlond that they belleved that Castro was

told my triand thaf they

going to be overthrown by the United States

and that

since I was getting too much power, they should eliminate

me.

My frland warned me that I should be careful.

sald they made mention of using an American to do tho

job of killing me instead of a Cuban.

Even now i do not

know

If the ClA had

anything to do with that, or whether

it was

Just this group of Batistadres." Ray

sald that

at the

time he was

told that the leader of the group

was

named Faget (first

name unrecollected), who is now

dead.

(Ray said he belloves his son Is working for U.s..

Customs in Miami.)

Ray sald he had heard of Frank Florinl about that

but he never met

"I heard of florini," he said,

sand I. was told that

he was something like

an adventurer,

a man of action with many contacts, but I had no direct

knowledge of him.

He was Involved more with tha Batistianos. "

Ray sald he knows of no rolationship between E. Howard

Hunt and Frank Fiorinl at the time.

Concerning the Castro assassination attempt in Chile in 1971

organizad by Antonio Veciana, Ray sald he was not

assoclated

with it nor did he know of anyone, except for veciana himsolf

involved with it who had previousiy worked with him.

He was

told, however, that Luis Posada may have been Involved, and

he remembers Posada as someone Cisneros once recrulted for

an Infiltration mission Into Cuba. "Later," sald Ray, "I found

out he was so close to the ClA l decidod not to use him

aпymore."

Ray said he does not know Lucilo Pena. or his

Involvement in the Chile attempt.

Spoculating as to who could have Introduced Maurice Bishop

to Veclana, Ray sald there Is the possibllity that Ruto

Lopez-fresquentcould have been the link without knowing

"Rufo is a good triend of mine," sald Ray, "but he

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б.

usually talks too much to ba directly invorved in

clandestine

activity.

But at the time Rufo had very

close

assoclation with high government officials and

the ClA and

I know that he

and Veciana were very good

frlends and

In the same business sphere.

would say he

may have

mentioned

Veclana's name to some of those people

and they contacted

Veclana

as a result, knowing from

Rufo of Veciana's feelIngs about Castro."

Ray's feelings. toward Veclana took a negative turn In 1972,

he sald, when he was organizing the Parte Partido Revolucionario

de Pueblo (People's Revolutionary Party) In Puerto Rico.

This was, said Ray, a great effort to reinvigorate the

anti-Castro movement.

Ray said that Veciana wanted to

Latin America and we thought he could be of help to us."

Ray sald that Veciana promised that he could got $10, 000

to contribute to the movement, but the money was never

produced:

raalmost as soon as he joined," sald Ray,

the movements

"he began particlpating in an attempt to divide the

movement...

Ho made a declaration accusing us of being

in consortment with Castro and he knew that was a lie.

Everything he said was just so unbelievable and he had

things printed about me In Replica accusing me of everything.

He Just made everything up."

Ray blames Veclana for

the lack of success of the

movement and says he does not

understand why he attacked him.

Basicalyy, ha

sald, he

bollaves Voclana Is an opportunist.

Ray was asked if he was famillar with the Moa Bay Mingng

Company.

He said he was.

He recalls a meeting around

June, 1959, when he was still In Castro's cabinet. "We

wodld meet at the Banco International everytThursday In

the aftornoon with a group that doalt with the economie

problems of the now government," ho sald. "Lopez-Frosquet

was the Finance Minister at the time.

At one meeting,.. i

remember Regino Botl, who was Minister of Economics, sald

that the people from Moa Bay had contacted him to see what

could be done with the government to re-establish their

operation.:. They had about a $70 milllon Investment. But

Castro sald not to deal with them because they had

worked

t00.

close with the

Batista government."

Ray was asked .lf

he remembered where he was on November

22, 1963.

Around that time, he said, he was spending most

of his time in Puerto Rico but flylng regularly to varlous

countryes: in Latin America.

day that Kennedy was killed,

he.

said, he was at a JURE moeting In Caracas.

Group. leaders

from varlous countrles were there, he said, and he remembers

the assistant to the President of

Venezuela coming in after

lunch with the news that Prosident Kennedy was

shot.

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7.

Ray sald he also recalls that Rogallo Cisneros was at that

JURE leeting.

When told that a file review

revealed that

Cisneros was reportodly scheduled to be Involved in a

pick-up of a caebe of arms on Regaldo Cay on November 23,

1963, a date which

was changed to November 25th at the

last minute ve had a boat In Costa Rica and

Ray said he recalled generally such an

operation.

we were supposad

to pick up some weapons. there but there was a mix up. l

can't recall the details or the date enactly," he said.

"Actually, Cisneros was the coordinator of such operations.

I was informed of them, but he was the direct coordinator

after they were Improved."

Ray was asked

about his relationship with Androw St. George

who,

according to file review, was with him on an attempted

Infiltration into Cuba.

"I think I first met him in Havana,!'

sald Ray, "when he passed through there on the way to the

Sierra Maestras. to see Castro.

I met him several times later

when I came Into exile

and we exchanged information and

Ideas.

• He has something about him, a sincerity, that l

lika. "

Ray said he was not aware of the close relationship between.

Andrew

St. George and MItchel! Livingston WerBell 111.

Asked If he had ever had any dealings with WerBell, Ray

"The sunavabltch.. I would like to punch him in the

nose, if you will forgive my saying that."

Ray said his

feelings about WerBell are based on an Ineldent that happened

Republie In 1965.

At the time, after two

¡allures, a final major inflitration operation Into Cuba

was being planned.

"This was to be the first of a series

of long

and slow

steps to build a permanent opposition

movement against Castro inside Cuba. This was supposed to

be a very significant operation, not Just another quick

rald."

Ray sald he had already had his share of problems

with the operation before his encounter with Werßell. Originally

It was to be based out of Costa Rica, but political problems:

developed there and he had to move the operation out. He

made arrangements to send the infiltration boat, the

venus,

Republic with its grow to set up a base

Meanwhile, a supply of arms that were especlally

fabricated for JORE in Callfornla were solzed in Callfornia

(They had been financed, sald Ray, by a major "Buy-A-RIfle-For-

$92" campaign among Cuban exiles; more than $100,000 was

raised.)

Then came the revolution in the Dominican Republic

and the appearance on the scene of Mitchell Werßell.

Ray

sald he frantically made arrangements with the Venezuelan

government to move his base of operations there and sent $750

of his personal money to the crew of the venus for fuel to

move the boat as quickly as possible to venezuela and out from

between the warring

factions In the Dominican Republle.

Howevor,

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what try ate i rovered an to do one ario bost

Jose rabell, to convinco them to go to Miaml with the

Instead of Venezuela.

That, of course, aborted the

infiltration operation.

"That's how WerBell stole our

boat from us," sald Ray. "After that our whole effort to

get going agaln falled. By that time l was completely

broke."

Ray sald he never did find out why Werßell was

In the Dominican Republle of why he stole the boat from

them.

"I bellove he was a ClA man," sald Ray.

Ray sald he

aventually wound up giving the boat to Nino Diaz

for his

anti-Castro operations.

Ray was asked about the incldent concerning the vislt of

"Leon Oswald" to Silvia Odio.

Ray sald that when he was

first questloned about it by the FBl, he was asked mostly

about his feelings about her rellability and

accuracy.

"They told me

that she sald she had met Oswald," he sald.

"I don't remember them telling me. that the men who came to

her. said they were members of JURE and were interested In

buying arms.i don't think thai was toid to me.

i toid

them that I knew she had some domestic problems and that

she was under. emotional strain from her divorce when she

was lIving hare In Puerto Rico, but I told them I would

say she was sane. I think she

was

a good person, a very

bright person and a sane person."

Ray was asked if he was over told that silvia Odlo's syster

also saw the three men who visited her apartment.

seemed surprised. "I never did know thatl" he sald.

"That

to me has a lot of bearing.: They never did tell me that.

This is the first time l learned about that."

Ray sald that at the time he knew of no members of JuRe

going through Dallas In search of money of arms.. He

does not recall. anyone by the name of Leopoldo. or Angelo

associated with JURE: at the time.

Ray sald he had no

American contacts. in Dallas or major financial support

from anyone there.

Ray also

sald he did not recognize or had no association

with individuals of the following names:

Justin McCarthy,

Bernardo DeTorres, Sam Acosta, Larrle Schmidt, Robert

Tony Sforza, Warren Frank and David Morales.

Moralso sald he had no association with Laureano Botista,

but heard that frank Florint was working with him at one

time.

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