## Page 1

157-10005-10224

2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992

Date: 10/01/93

Page: 1

JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM

IDENTIFICATION FORM

AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : SSCIA

RECORD NUMBER : 157-10005-10224

RECORDS SERIES :

AGENCY FILE NUMBER : R174 1 OF 3

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR :

SSCIA

FROM :

TO :

TITLE :

TRANSCRIPT/REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS WITH EXHIBITS

DATE : 06/02/75

PAGES : 111

SUBJECTS :

HOUSTON, LAWRENCE - EXECUTIVE SESSION COMMITTEE MEETING

HOUSTON WAS FORMER CIA EMPLOYEE FROM 1947-1973

CIA OPERATIONS WITH REGARD TO CASTRO, FIDEL

DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

CLASSIFICATION : T

RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED

CURRENT STATUS : P

DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 10/01/93

OPENING CRITERIA :

COMMENTS :

BOX 248-1

[R] - ITEM IS RESTRICTED

B 35

NW 50955

DooId: 32202414

Page

1

---

## Page 2

amt

1

2

3

5

6

WARD & PAUL

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

TOP SECRET

46

trouble come see you?

Mr. Houston. Oh, no, there's a number of times. For

instance, I think it was back in the '50's, there's a lot of

them, but a couple might illustrate - in those days we were

doing a good deal of political action abroad in the sense of

giving guidance to factions in foreign countries that u.s.

policy favored in organizing elections. I don't mean in

rigging them, but how to get down to the grass roots, the old-

fashioned political advice on how to run a political campaign.

We didn't have many trained officers on this. We had

one or two who were excellent and they wanted more, and they

came to me with the proposition that - this was an election year,

which one I have forgotten - that we put officers in both the

Republican and Democratic campaign parties to get the practical

experience, and I advised - actually, I went over and talked

with Malcolm Wilkie, who was then the legal counsel in the

Department of Justice, and this was most ill-advisable, and I

went back and they dropped the project.

More recently, our communication] fellows down in Virginia

found they could easily monitor(long distance telephone,

_conversations) from Latin American to Canada, and in some cases

to New York, and these frequently carried/conversations J

involving (narcotics)in great detail. They had no telephone?

discipline at all, security discipline on the telephone. And

they would even give the name of the person who's going to

TOP SECRET

NH 50955 DocId:32202414 Page 2

---

## Page 3

amt

Phone (Area 202) 544-6000

1

2

5

4.

5

6

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

TOP SECRET

47

receive the harcoties land where.

However, this immediately got us into an internal security

and a police function. I told them they had to drop it, and

they did. And it's too bad, because nobody else has found a way

of doing it, and this information is floating over our heads

right now and we cannot use it.

Mr. Schwarz. Have there been any instances where you or

your office advised the Agency that it should not do something

when nevertheless the Agency went ahead and did it?

MI. Houston. I should think I would remember an occasion

like that, but I don't.

Senator Mondale. Thank you.

(Senator Mondale left the hearing room.)

Mr. Schwarz. Mr. Houston, with the Senator absent, you

don't have to go ahead.

MI. Houston. Fine, fine.

Mr. Schwarz. I'm going to go on to another subject.

Does anyone else have anything else about the Robert Kennedy

meeting?

Mr. Kirbow. I have only one other question, and perhaps

more about the leadership of the Agency.

Mr. Houston, your reputation over the some twenty-six

twenty-eight years you were General Counsal was one of intense

loyalty to the Director and the Deputy Director of the Agency.

Mr. Houston. That is correct.

TOP SECRET

NN 50955 DocId:32202414 Page 3

---

## Page 4

amt

Phone (Area 202) 544-6000

1

2

5

6

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

TOP SECRET

75

chest operator, but so far as I know he always operated in the

line of command, and something like this I think I should have

been consulted, but I can understand the operator's viewpoint.

They might have felt there were reasons why I should not be

consulted.

But just what went on in the line of command between

Harvey and the Director I just cannot fathom this.

Mr. Schwarz. Harvey worked for Helms at the time, did

he not?

Mr. Houston. That's right.

Mr. Schwarz. And what was the nature of their relationship

as you understood it?

MI. Houston. They were not too compatible as people, but

I have never known that there was any difficulty in complying

with the chain of command. I wouldn't necessarily have known

if there had been, but I didn't know it.

Mr. Wides. And Harvey had worked for Mr. Helms in Berlin?

Mr. Houston. He had been Chief of Station in Berlin,

he had been Chief of Station in Rome, and I think it was after

the Rome assignment he came back and took over the staff.

Mr. Wides. But in connection with some of the operations

like the Berlin Tunnel and other intelligence operations he

had a pretty close-working relationship with Mr. Helms?

Mr. Houston. They were all in the DDP and certainly

anything of the importance of the Berlin runnel, they

would be

TOP SECRET

HH 50955

DocId: 32202414 Page 4

---

## Page 5

amt

1

2

5

6

First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

8

9

10

11

•12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

TOP SECRET

88

could you think of anything which would be of benefit to this

Committee that we have not inquired into?

MI. Houston. The only thing I thought you might ask that

I thought you were going to mention it -- somewhere, and this is

very vague in my mind, both where I heard it, in what context,

and what the timing of the event was, but I have heard and I am

sure you must have heard of the delivery of a sniper's rifle

to the Embassy in Havanna, which may have been intended for

some sort of assassiration attempt.

MI. Schwarz. The Embassy when we still had an Embassy

there?

Mr. Houston. It was apparently when we still had the

Embassy.

MI. Rirbow.

Was this a couched delivery, covert

delivery, much like the later deliveries into the Dominican

Republic?

MI. Houston. I think so.

I don't know much about it. I just, through a vague

recollection, I don't know any details or any specifics, it's

one of the things you pick up.

MI. Kirbow. When would that have been? I am trying to

date when we no longer had an Embassy there.

Mr. Wides.

(Mr Noll, I think Mr. Noll wasthe Station

(chief, Jim Noll, and I believe he left in late 1959.

MI. Kirbow. Was that about the correct time?

TOP SECRET

HH 50955 DocId: 32202414 Page 5

---