SUBJECT: REINOL GONZALEZ GONZALES - COMMENTS ON INTERVIEW IN MAY 1979 IN MIAMI.
Originator: CIA
To: MFR
Document date: 05/28/1979
Document type: PAPER - TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

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"Signature

Reports from Wade received, via Bill S.

Want you to see this right away,

particularly info in para 1. Para 3 info also

of interest.

ALVAREZ is defector DCD had my

name connected with.

Other source(s) have made

same comment about ALVAREZ.

Shall forward

to you other reports of interest.

Chi - sil

Chris. H.

paral info le

O NOT usa this form as a RECORD of approvat

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28 May 1979

(201-275949)

Meno for the Record

TO 8 MT. Willian Sturbitts

FROM: Wade E. Thoras

SUBJECT: Reinol CONZALEZ lonzales - Comments on Intervien

in May 1979 in Miani.

1. This Subject was interviewed on the occasionof both our

visits to Miami and ue spent at least sone 6 hours with him and

still haven't finished. He told us on the occasion of the last

visit that hessttll.uontg to tell.un about some things going

•on in the Cuban exile communisty. in Mianl, that some Cubans are

:buying arms and planning actions against CASTRO,-etO. He wants to

tell us, he said, tha

we'll know and won't be

surprised but he

jenies all part for himself in any such illegal actions. He does

not believe it possible, given internal and external conditions

sow prevailing, to overthiow CASIRO anytime soon but says if it

vere sossible, he would be the first to start preparations for

that purpose.

when we next go to Miani we will listen to what

idditional he has to say.

2. ¡Subject was for the miter the nost interesting

and perhaps

:he most productive of the peonle we were assigned to intervier.

his guy is cut fion a different mold fIon the other 7. He is

sough, intelligent, cunning, 'shrend, lacking in formal education,

out a real toughin-fighter who knows what he wants and knows how

•o go about it. He is, too, I think, a real opportunist, and this

ay explain in part his reason forsautting on the 6 nou 61. TV:

*rogram. I had the febling repeatedly that hè nas not really

oming clean on many of our questions, but the only tho questions.

o which he reacted noticeably Here the ones about the TV plograsa

nd Octavio:BARRO32, These sna visibly upset him: eventho I feel

e knew or thought they would be thrown at him and hehad his

nswers prepared. More about the IV progras and BARPOSO later.

3.

This nan started out as the secretary-general of the Union

{ Christain Workers (OTC), at one point belonged to the ARD an

ssociation of young

denocratic people), the MRP for a while, etc.

• 1959 he was named foreign relations

secretary of the Confederation

I Cuban Workers (CTC), however, at the election of officers in late

959 CASTRO showed up

and imposed his slate, a Communist slate for

he most part on the congress. Subject was required to turn over

Copy #2

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his post as foreign relations secretary to-Arton AlvArez. le

and ALVAREZ had been on opposite ends polilically in previous

years, when ALVAREZ was working at the Chase Manhattan. Bank in

Havana and representing the bank workers union, but they had

put aside their differences to work together against BAlIStA.

Then, when CASTRO came along he propelled ALVAREZ to the post in

the CTC to which Subject had

democratically been chosen. The

imposition of CASTRO's slate took place at a CIC congress in Nov

1960. He claims that he has never

seen ALVAREZ since the business

of turnino

over his files to ALVAREZ mas done in 1960. He knows

of course that ALVAREZ went on to other jobs, eventually to the

Cuban Embassy in Madrid, and eventually defecred to the US. He

Claims to have no use for ALVAREZ, he's a dedicated Connie and he

'wouldn't trust ida.

AMCOAX-I stell on jail

4, DI. Elena Mederos - is the aunt of PUJAl Mederos. She is

currently corking with the Huran Kights Commission in Washington,

DC. Subject says that some 30 years ago when he knew her pretty

well she was denocratic or leftist in her politics but very left-

ist in her economics . He described her as a revolutibnary of a

sort, with lots of prestige in Cuba in those days.

5. So far as he's a wa re there was only one Octavio BARROSO SO

the one you're talking about is the same one

known to him, the

same one shot in late 1901 or early 1902, he's not sertain exactly

when. He claims

that PUJAL and BARROSO were captured at the same

PUJAL a aborted to same on send turn

might have been

in any case he(subject) didn't

do it. There were others in jail at that time, also, he says, who

could have told G-2 about BARROSO's revolutionary activities. AB:

stated,

that question, as did the one on the IV progras, visibly

upset him so I°m

not at all sure that un got the truth.

6. Subject was arrested on 1l October 1961 in a raid on the

Cesar Odio Farn, along with a number of other people. On 30 Septaber

1961 a wonan belonging

to his unit, Dalla JORGE, Mas arrested,

allegedly placing a bomb in a company there in Havana called CIA.

Subject was carrying docurentation in alias but almost imediately

he was confronted with Dalia who identified him to Uo2. But, the

nost irportant evudence is the fact that over the next few days

and weeks those known to Dalia in that organization were arrested,

those not known to her were not. Although alledgedly arrested

planting a bonb,

she was alnost inmediately released and was coon

walking the street. A few months later Dalia had married a lieutenaat..

In G-2. She later divorced the, lleutenant l whose name Subject could

not come up mith) and then married Carlos RUBIERA, a nephew of.

Vicente RUBIERA nho lives in Miami, "lorida and works for the AFLl

•CIO.

7. The IV prograM - why? It was the first such appearance by anyone

arrested that could be called in favor of CASTRO.

The MRO had a pact amongst themselves, he clains, which stated

I Hadrid is i98don ALVAREZ de la Campa y Sotolongo who defoctod-to-U.sa

Ars

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that anyone captured would not talk for 72 hours, to give those

still free time to change hidding places, etc, then one would be

permitted, if forced to, to tell minor things, things it was

throught the Go? might already know.

He was taken to a place referred to as POINI X and stripped

naked. He was interrogared almost continuously, lights were kept

on and all sorts of threats were made against him. He could hear

In the building the voices of others known to hin in the MRP..

among others Fernando Rojas, Fernandez Rivera (now in Caracas),

Roberto Jinenez. pjs

InTErIOgATOrS Mere ISIdOrO MALMIENCA, hOM

Minister of Foreign Helations, but then just a secretary to the

Ministry of Interior. MALMIERCA was assisted at times by lt.

ALFOYSO (Inu), apparently an assistant to MALMIENCA, who mas much

wore Intelligent and much better trained than MALMIERCA. The

latter did a poor job and got little out of Subject but ALFONSO

did a much better job.

'After several days he nas told that CASTRO himself Mould visit

him andipersonally conduct the interrogation. He clains that he

tOld MALMIERCA that that would do no good for it nas CASIRO himself

he helped to teach Subject many years before how to fight the

Connies and prevent their penetration into the labor movement.

As a result, he says, i CASTRO did not come butgRaNiIO VALDEZ didi

VALDEZ told him that the decision had already been nade not

shoot him (Subject) but that some of nost of the military

section people of his organization (MP) in jail wouldhave to

pay with. their lives for what they,

Subject and others of the

MRP had done. The only way he could save them, VALDEZ said, would

be to go on

IV and tell the nation what his organization had been

tell then how useless resistance to CASINO was, and at the

time conder the US for its complicity in anti-CASIRO efforts.

Now, subject clains that some of tris filted after a fashion into

•is own thinking and size up of the seate of things. He claims that

l) he had decided some time earlier that internat resistance of the

sort the MRP was dorducting was useless, and 2) that it would be

setter to leave the country and fight from abroad, and 3) that he

ad proposed just such a nove at a large meeting of MP leaders

eld just a fem days before his capture. However, the student and

orkers' representatives at that meeting did not

ove so no action was taken, then came his own arrest.

azooka from a roon overlooking a public plasa where

o appear on 4 October 1961, and VALDEZ had found out avout thase

lans, through Dalia, Subject assumes. Anyway, Subject claims •

hat three people were to have gone un to the roon, which had been

roperly prepared and an escape route worked cut, just prior to

e ceremony. Of the three, one

guy, Antonio VALADELO Vaciana got

¡old feet and took off for the States instead. Raul VENTA Del

azo was there but did not fire the reapon dame he cruld

for sone reason

Subject,

and the third man, whose

no not

enember, apparently did not go up

to the room eithel.

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÷3

And 3

Hell, believing that sirh esistanca activities vere in.

fact futile and believing

that CASIRO would in fact shoot

his men, and believing that he could all alone determire

what was to be

said on TV, he decided that to accept the offer

was the correct thing to do. He could not have the blcod of

others on his hand, he said, unless something very worthwhile

was being

acconplished. He profussed to VALDEZ, however, that he

had no authority all by himself to make that decision

to discuss it with three or four MRp leacers there in jail with

him. VALDEZ agreed that he could discuss it withffernando

but mith no one else, and that mas done. RUJAS reluctantly

approved.

He wrote the presentation he as to give on IV and he siad

no substantive changes were made by the Cubans. He constructed

it, he said, to 1) tell them as much as possible what they

wanted tohear without doing any real harm, 2) protect those

still at large, and 3) give anay as little senstitive information

as possible. He said he realized fully what he mas doing, that

he would do it acain if caught in the same situation, and that

he takes full responsibility now as then for shat he

said and still feels it was the only logical think he could

do. Again, this was not a subject he enjoyed discussing; he appear-

in fact a bit embarassed by it all, but he knew it would be

coming at some point.

8. Why didn't the Cubans Iclease him after the ransom mas paid

then? Because he would not sign a paper in effect saying he was

'sorry and asking CASIRO's forgiveness. He meet mith Alonso PUJOL

and three G-2 military officers to discuss the relea se and the

conditions of the release one day after the ransom had been paid,

when he refused the G-2's conditions PUJOL took a piece of

paper out and scribbled on it an agreenent, which said Subject

would bligate himself not to becone involved again in anti-

CASTRO activities if released, and he agreed to sign that. In

fact, he did sign it. PUJOl then handed it to

the military

they said the Cuban lout could not accept it. It was after

that that the money was reutined.

9. How did he get out when he did? Through the efforts of Gabriel.

"GARCIA Marquez, a Mexican novelist and reporter in Mexico Lityiand:

ta good friend of CASINO and other high Cuban leadersiand of Subject.

jand his wife. Subect's wife and GARCIA's wife are particularly

close, as are GARCIA's wife and Subject's children.

10. Subject's wife had contacted many people, promient people in

an effort to bring about Subject

s release but had had no luck until

the GARCIA's went to work"on it. In early November (he thinks) of

1977 GARCIA and wife visited Cuba and sent sometine witl CASIRO.

CARCIA's wife allegedly told CASIRO that she had one important

favor to ask of him, to release a good firend of theirs who had by

then held for many years. CASTRO promised to do it immediately.

i see sate caterary

tInaPrenio

out. He tapped of

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GARCIA that he was sorry that he had not been able to release

Subject when promised but that there were many in the top

echelon of gout that were opposed to his release and that it

took hin some tine tobring them around. However, he called

or spoke to ABRANTES, who was with him at that time, and told

him to find Subject and have him brought to G-2 offices the

next morning at 1000 hours. That was done and in fact a li?

colonel drove Subject to

etc, and he set off at 1700 hours on

same plane with GAlCIA. The Go2 colonel who drove him te

the airport was Colonel Manuel BLANCO

referred to a Maio. Several of our other subjects had contact

with

this guy and most found him reasonable, intelligent and

very military.

11."GONZALES, GONZALES, who spoke only in Spanish, although understands

some English

and undubtedly speaks some, is a member of the

committee which helped to negotiate the release of political

prisoners with CASTRO, and he will continue to do all in his

porer, he says, to accon plish that objective. He has been

to Japajoa once

to neggtiate with Cuban authorities, and once

to Havana. My team member will cover those activities in his

reporta

12. Subject is working for hinself and has been for sometime,

he

is in the used clothes business, and expects to rent a place

for his business on 8th street, SW, in the 5000 block, 1

believe, at an early date. He expects to cater pretty much

to Latin Americans traveling to the US, hopefully mostly

venezuelans and Brazilians for they are the ones with the

most spending

money. He's already

a good many friends

and contacts in Venezuela, and believes

that he'll get a lot of business fion Latin America. He has

a friend who is prepared to make a $10,000 loan, and & bank

has agreed to finance him to the tune of $20,000 and it'11

take avout $30,000 to spock his business adquately. He can

and will get short teru credit fron some of his suppliers but

will probably be limited to 60 to 90 days. He's very optimistic

about the future, appears in good health, although sorewhat over

weight, and his wife works. The works in the office for a Puerto

Kican backing company.

13. Suviject w as sost appreciative for the offer of a physical

and he knons that he has no saney on escron with

the "Agency. Nevertheless, he probably is expecting sone financial

•compensation for his time in

prison, although this was never

nentioned specifically. Tidbits of info provided by him on people

on the long list, as well as on others and other subjects will

be or has been included in other reports.

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