Agency: HSCA
Originator: HSCA
From: USAF, SECURITY SERVICE
To: NSA
Document date: 4/1/78
Document type: PAPER-TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

## Page 1

JFK Assassination System

Identification Form

Agency Information

Date:

10/20/20

AGENCY: HSCA

RECORD NUMBER :

180-10110-10067

RECORD SERIES: SECURITY CLASSIFIED FILES

AGENCY FILE NUMBER:

065-JFK

Released under the John

issassination Records

Collection Act of 1992

144 USC 2107 Note).

Case#:NW 56829 Date:

Document Information

ORIGINATOR: HSCA

FROM: AZCUE, EUSEBIO

TO :

TITLE:

DATE: 04/01/1978

PAGES:

43

SUBJECTS :

OSWALD, LEE, POST-RUSSIAN PERIOD, TRAVEL, TRIP TO

MEXICO

AZCUE, EUSEBIO, INTERVIEW

DOCUMENT TYPE: OUTSIDE CONTACT REPORT

CLASSIFICATION : Unclassified

RESTRICTIONS: Consulted

CURRENT STATUS : Withhold

DATE OF LAST REVIEW: 08/08/1993

OPENING CRITERIA :

COMMENTS : With attached interview.Box 3.

v9.1

14 56829

DooId: 32263472

Page 1

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## Page 2

v04-03-95ccr

JEK RECORDS

Referred to:

Referred on:

AGENCY : HSCA

RECORD NUMBER

: 180-10110-10067

RECORD SERIES

: SECURITY CLASSIFIED FILES

AGENCY FILE

NUMBER

:065-JFK

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR

: HSCA

FROM

: AZCUE,

EUSEBIO

TO

:

TITLE

DATE: 04/01/78

PAGES

: 43

DOCUMENT TYPE

: OUTSIDE CONTACT REPORT

SUBJECT (S)

: OSWALD, LEE, POST-RUSSIAN PERIOD, TRAVEL, TRIP TO

MEXICO; AZCUE, EUSEBIO, INTERVIEW;

CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED

RESTRICTIONS

:256.

CURRENT STATUS

REFERRED

DATE OF LAST

REVIEW: 08/08/93

COMMENTS

: With attached interview.Box 3.

Date in: 03/22/95

F F

F

F

F

F

TFFFFFFF

Eusebro Azeue nur Cuban Consul in

Mexico City in 1963. Open interview in full.

KI. 2/19/63

HH

56829

DocId:32263472

Page 2

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## Page 3

I.

II.

III.

HandCarried

KENNEDY

COMMITTEE SENSITIVE

OUTSIDE CONTACT REPORT

007130

DATE

TIME

April 1,

1978

3:00 pm

Identifying Information:

Name

Eusebio Azcue

Cuba

Address

Telephone

Type of Contact:

Telephone

Person

Summary of Contact:

On April 1, 1978: The following Congressmen and staff personnel

interviewed senor Eusebie Azcue: Louis Stokes, Richardson.

Preyer, Christopher Dodd, G. Robert Blakey. Gary Cornwell

and Edwin Juan Lopez.

Recommended Follow-up (if any) :

Copies need not be made for they have already been given

to those interested parties.

COMMITTEE SENSIVE

Form #5

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## Page 4

Edure 57

Select Committee on Assassinations

H.S. House of Representatibes

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20515

Arcus:

@Pictures from Aperep. c.c, ces

EX Tr. Tape, st

and Oswald Photos quee

@ Enther All data on

Mexics - Chart iT, suddie

65. W. PosT Article ne F.1B.I.

in formant. 12

86 CD 1359-24

@CIA MeXiCS.NOTES.GRO.GO

SOCIA La Manly sis caes

HH 56829 DocId:32263472 Page 4

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## Page 5

Extrai Juan Fifs

MEXICO CITY PROJECT

1. Show photos to:

Sylvia Duran

-Eusebio Azcue

Theresa Maria Proenza

Sylvia Odio

Elena de Paz

Elinita de Paz

Red-headed Cuban

Ugarte

Gutierrez

Robert Mckeown

University of Mexico student

2. Photos to show:

San Martin

Emesto Betancourt

Manolo Rey

Carlos Hevia

Alexander Rorke

William Gaudet

Enrique Molina

Joe Molina

Bill Medina

Castellano

All Embassy visitors

Kerry Thornley

John Masen

Other potential Oswald doubles

Horatio Duran

William Lowry

Three Tramps

de Torres

3.: Pull together documents:

Duran testimony and interviews

(Cindy)

Duran Cable traffic

(Hardway)

Proenza - FBI report; Am Consul report;

file review

(Hardway)

De Paz

(Hardway)

Jose Molina

(Brady)

Enrique Molina

(Orr)

Arnesto Rodriguez

(OrI/Lopez)

University of Mexico Student

(Flanagan)

Rorke - Mexico Cables - Cozumel

• (Orr)

JURE - Mexico cables

(Lopez)

Warren Commission

(Wizelman)

Gutierrez

(Wizelman)

Castellano

(Brady)

Red-headed Cuban

(Brady)

NN 56829 DocId: 322634771 paull documents

(Brady)

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Code: A-Azcue

B-Blakey

C-Cornwell

L-Lopez

S-Chairman Stokes

P-Congressman Preyer

D-Congressman Dodd

A: I do not believe the commander could have said such a thing.

I mean there was no motive to say that, because this all

occurred before the assassination of Kennedy. It was a

routine application, and Oswald only had to deal with me,

nobody else.

B:

Perhaps I mis-conveyed the information. The journalist is not

indicating that Premier Castro, himself, overheard this. The

journalist is indicating that these words are attributed to

Mr. Oswald were heard by whomever dealt with Oswald in Mexico.

A: Oh! I'm sorry. Well, I don't think Oswald said that. That's

ridiculous. A person who has the mission to assassinate the

President would not publicize it. That is ridiculous.

B: Then you did not overhear him say this?

A: No. Never.

B: Then the words that are reported here were not overheard by

you?:

A: He never presented himself as having anything to offer.

B: Did the person who appeared at the Embassy say anything like

this?

A: Never. That I would remember quite well. For that would have

been of importance if he wanted to work with us. I would have

sent the information to Cuba. And, as you know, that does not

appear in the information I sent them. I would have registered

that, that he wanted to work for us. That all happened in

September. I would have listed it on the application, "This

person wants to work for us"

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Azcue - Tape Two - Page 2

B: Do, you speak Russian?

A: NO.

B: Did anybody in the office at that time speak Russian?

A: NO.

B: Then no member of the Cuban Consulate in 1963 spoke Russian?

A: That is correct.. Nowdays probably many Cubans speak Russian.

B: Did you have any telephones at the Embassy that could be used

by the public?

A: No. The only telephones that could be used were those in our

offices.

B:

Could you describe to us the route that Oswald would have had

to have taken to get into your office?

A: If you want I will draw a schematic plan for you.

B: Do it right here.

(By right here, Professor Blakey means on one of the back

pages of the questionnaire that was presented to the Cuban

government, in copy number 4.)

B: For the record, we will stop for about two minutes, while Mr.

Azcue makes the drawing.

We are back on the record.

Mr.

Azcue has prepared a drawing. Will you explain it to us,

please, Mr.

Azcue?

A: This is the entrance.

B: He is pointing to the right hand side of the drawing.

A: These are the streets.

B: Could you tell us some names of the streets, please?

A: The one on the right is Francisco Marcos Street.

The other

one I cannot recall right now.

HH 56829 DocId: 32263472 Page 7

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Azcue - Tape Two - Page 3

B: Mr. Azcue, may I ask that when you refer to the drawing, that

you may recall that you are being recorded, that you speak

in such

a way that someone who is

hearing the recording may

be able to follow what you are saying.

A: Fine.

The entrance is in a corner between two streets. It

is a large broad entrance, and we have a hall immediately

following the entrance, which is the waiting room for visitors.

The

second part would be the consulate where the secretary

would be sitting. There is a wall there made of wood and

glass, the lower section made of wood, and the top section

made of glass.

That's the wall that the secretary would

be looking into the waiting room and outside into the street,

from where she sat. The secretary would be sitting at this

point in the middle. Now around her would be furniture and

desks. The secretary can see the entrance. She is in the

proper position and that whole wall is made of glass, and

everyone who comes, you know, she can see whether they are

coming in

alone or whether they are coming in accompanied.

She receives the company at this spot here. The person would

normally come in and say that they have come to apply for a

visa, and then she brings the person in to this spot. If there

is any problem, she would call me, and I would come out of my

office.

B:

Would she call you personally, or would she call you on the

phone?

A :

No, no. She would call me personally. We are very close.

She would probably get up and call me, however, if it is a matter

that is not routine, something that is different from the

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Azcue - Tape Two - Page 4

ordinary. You see in this case it was not a routine matter,

for he wanted to expedite the process.

B: After you had a conversation with Oswald, or when you had

the conversation, would you point on the drawing to where you

were

standing?

A: Certainly. I would be here and he would be there.

B: Would you tell me where the phones are in each office?

A: Certainly. There was a telephone in this office, the secre-

tary's office, at this spot and also a telephone in my office

at this spot. I also had an intercom, but I did not normally

use the intercom. I came out through this door and I asked him

to get out at this point, while we were standing here. I

told him to get out now.

B: Would it have been possible for him to have used your tele-

phone?

A: No. You see normally if somebody asks whether they can use

our phone, we say sure, go ahead. But I remember that he did

not ask me whether he could use our phone.

B: To your knowledge, did anyone else in your office, Mrs. Duran,

(permit) Oswald to make a

phone call from your consulate?

A: It could have happened, yes. But there was no reason. If

she wanted to authorize a phone call she could do it, but there

was

no

reason to.

B: Did you ever have any conversations with her, in which she

indicated that she could have done it?

A: No. Never. I met her again two years after the assassination,

in November of 1965, and she was a very good friend of mine.

HH 56829 DocId: 32263472 Page 9

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Azcue - Tape Two - Page 5

B: Did you discuss this?

A: Yes, of course.

She told me about all her problems with the

Mexican authorities. They had arrested her, they had put

her picture on the front pages of the newspapers, that there

was a tremendous scandal, you know, involving her.

B: Did

she discuss with you the confrontation that she had with

Oswald?

A: Of course. The same thing that happened to me. It had only

been two years, and we remembered perfectly well. You see,

the Mexican authorities wanted to implicate her, for you see,

since she was Mexican, even though she was Mexican she had no

diplomatic privileges, and you see, they arrested her and they

wanted to implicate her and they even treated her very badly.

She defended herself though. She bit people and she kicked

people and it was a very, very public thing, you know. A

public scandal in the newspapers. They tried to coerce her.

B: In those discussions that you had with her then, did she say

anything about her memory in reference to the person who was

there, as opposed to the person that she saw on TV?

A: I really do not remember if we discussed that. It's very

likely that I spoke about that. I really do not remember it,

because more than anything our conversation consisted of Mrs.

Duran telling me about her problems with the Mexican authorities.

C: Were all of the man's visits, whoever he was, during the normal

working hours? You know, from 10 to 2?

HH 56829 DocId:32263472 Page 10

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Azcue - Tape Two - Page 6

A: Yes, yes. We always closed at 2 in the afternoon and always

opened at 10 A.M.

C:

Without exceptions?

A: Yes, that's true. Possibly though somebody could contact us

by phone.

C: Would that routine also cover Saturdays and Sundays?

A: Saturdays, yes.

Sundays, no.

C: Trying to be as careful as possible about the dates, would it

have been consistent or inconsistent in the operating procedures

of your Embassy for the secretary to fill out the visa applica-

tions for Mr. Oswald on a first visit there, even though he

did not bring the picture?

A: It is not likely. It could be, but it's just not likely. For

on the first day the person is informed that he has got to have

a passport, photos, and etcetera.

C: The day on which you finally told the man to leave, do you

remember if that transpired on the day that he filled out the

visa, one day after he had filled out the visa, or two days

after he had filled out the visa?

A: It was probably a day after he filled out the visa application,

or maybe two days after he filled out the application. You see,

Mr. Oswald had to go to the Soviet Embassy and I do not feel

that it is very easy to go to the Soviet Embassy and resolve the

problem quickly, then return to the Cuban Embassy. He probably

came to our Embassy on the 27th of September and on the 28th

he probably went to the Soviet Embassy, and he probably returned

to the cuban Embassy on the 29th. And it is on the 28th that

the Soviet Embassy probably called me. That is probably the

HH 56829 DocId: 32263472 Page 11

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Azcue - Tape Two - Page 7

most logical (thing), but it didn't necessarily have to occur

that

way -

It is though the most logical.

C: This document was presented to us by the Cuban government

yesterday.

It is a letter dated October the 15th, 1963, and

it appears on page 12 of the book that the Cuban government

handed over to the Committee.. Do : You recall the letter?

A: Yes, this is a routine letter. And the Cubans received the

applications, that is, when they receive a request from a

North American citizen, he has to call us by telephone, prepaid,

as often as possible to check whether his

visa has been

accepted, his visa application has been accepted. He should

call us though only when he has the visa from the Soviet Union.

C: Were you still in Mexico on this date?

A: Yes, of course. Ah, now that I look at the letter I remember

the full name of the consul that was going to take my place.

His name was Alfredo Mirabal.

C: Could you tell us the address to Mr. Mirabal?

A: I was already handing the whole office to him. I was teaching

him all the procedures.

C: But you were, at any rate, still there when this letter came

in?.

A:

Yes, of course. But this is a routine letter. I did not even

need this letter. I mean, whenever the Soviet Embassy notified

us that the soviet government had authorized a visa, then I

also; the Cuban government could authorize a visa.

C: Do you know whether or not any action was taken upon

receipt of this letter?

HH 56829 Do0Id:32263472 Page 12

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Azcue - Tape 2 - Page 8

A :

We just filed it, that's it. This is only a notice, this

letter. It has no implications whatsoever.

C: Would:

you have

had a forwarding

address for. Mr. Oswald on October

15th, and if so, would you have forwarded this letter to him?

A: No, I did not have a forwarding address, but even if I had

had one I would not have forwarded the letter for, first he

would have needed the Soviet visa, and then we could have

acted.

C: If you would once again look at the visa application, Document

#779, will you estimate how old you think that man in the

picture is?

A: Well, I would say he's about 28 to 30. But the man I remember

as having visited the Embassy was over thirty-five years old.

It is also interesting I haven't seen this picture, you know,

in all these years. It's the first time that I see this picture,

in a long, long time, but yet the memory I have of that man

that went to the Consulate differs from this photo.

S: Could I ask you again how long Mr. Oswald remained in your

office on his first visit there?

A: I would say ten or fifteen minutes at the most. That first

visit is always very quick. We let them know exactly what

they need - a passport, a photograph, and then they ask us

how long will it take to process the matter, and etcetera.

first visit always consists of only an interchange of ideas,

an interchange of information.

The

S: On the second time, was he there longer?

A: Yes, because he had to wait for the visa application to be

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Azcye - Tape Two - Page 9

filled out. He had to wait for the application to be typed.

S: So how long would he have been there on the second occasion?

A: Oh, approximately fifteen minutes. He had no reason to remain

there any longer. You

see, he doesn't spend a lot of time with

me.

It is one of those routine, you know, matters that a

secretary usually handles. You see he spent a very short time

with me on that second visit because he came back with the

impression that after his conversation at the Soviet Embassy

everything would be expeditiously handled. But then I had to

explain to him that that was not so. You see, even though,

I had to tell him that even though his papers were legitimate

papers, that if the Soviet Union had to consult Moscow, then

ought to explain to him that he had to wait. And then at that

point he got angry, then I threw him out.

S: So then how long would that argument between the two of you

have taken?

A: I cannot calculate it for you. But it's one of those conversa-

tions that transpires quickly. Well, he would have spent at

most ten minutes with me and possibly another five minutes with

the secretary before she called me into the office. See, what

I had to explain to him could be done very

quickly, and you see,

he got offensive and I threw him out.

S: Mr. Azcue, on the application which is signed, in which everyone

purports that it is Lee Harvey Oswald's signature, it's also a

signature lower than Mr. Oswald's signature and is done in green

ink. Would you recognize that signature?

A: I think that this signature may have been put on the application

once it arrived in Havana, for I do not recognize it as one of

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Azcue - Tape Two - Page 10

the signatures from our Cuban Embassy in Mexico City.

Can anybody here make out what that signature says?

Cuban officials: No, we've already concluded that it's illegible.

A: Does anybody recognize it as Mrs. Duran's signature?

Cuban officials: No. We think it is illegible.

A: It is not my signature. My signature is very clear. You can

make out my name.

B: Will you write your signature here for us, Mr. Azcue?

A: Of course. Here's my signature. You can read my name here.

Azcue, A-Z-C-U-E. I've written it on the same page that I drew

the schematic of the Cuban Embassy before.

S: Mr. Azcue, on this visa application, there is a section entitled

"observations". Will you read that section so that I may ask you

a question about it?

A: Of course. This is exactly what I was talking about before.

It says that he exhibited those certain documents. It says that he

showed us papers stating that he was a member of the Communist Party

of America, and .

Secretary of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee,

New Orleans. He was in the Soviet Union from October 1959 until

June 9, 1962, that there he got married with a Soviet citizen...

social documents that accredit him as a member of the two

organizations previously mentioned, and also a wedding certifi-

cate. He presented himself in front of the Soviet Embassy, asking

that his visa be sent to the Cuban Embassy. This is very

interesting, because you see here it seems like we're going to

give him the visa.. It seems like whoever wrote this thought

that we were going to give him the visa. There's also a

small

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Azcue - Tape Two - Page 11

difference here, for we called the Soviet Embassy, it says

here, and what we understand, what I understand that occurred

was that we called the Soviet Embassy and in fact they called

us. Maybe a secretary called the Soviet Embassy and then the

Soviet Embassy called me, that's possible. I recall that

when they called us they told us that they would first have to

get authorization. What I do not recall is that they said it

would take about four months, and it states so here in the

observations section of the application.

S: With reference to this application, when the secretary typed

this up, who would' have made this observation, who would have been

in her presence, who would have dictated it to her?

A: If you will allow me, the secretary would only type the

information above the observation section in front of the

applicant. The other material, thus the secretary probably

did it after Mr. Oswald left.

S: So that none of the information that appears on this application

was taken directly by you?

A: That is correct. It is not my job. It is not the Consul's

job; it is the secretary's job. This is a routine matter that

has no importance, for the Consul to be the one to do it.

This

information is sent to Cuba and then it is studied there.

S: Was there more than, was Mrs. Duran the only secretary in the

office, or was there more than one secretary there?

A: No. Mrs. Duran was the only one.

S: So then in the total office, there was just yourself, Mrs.

Duran and the Consul who was going to replace you, Mirabal.

That's correct?

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Azcue - Tape Two - Page 12

A: Yes, that's correct.

S:

Doesn't it also appear in the application that he wishes to

leave for Cuba on September 30th?

A: Um, I, oh, yes, here it is. It says "wishing to depart for

Cuba on September 30th". That is correct.

S: If the section "observations" there, someone states that we called the

Soviet Embassy, but yet your best recollection is that the

Soviet Embassy called you, is that correct?

A: Both things might be true. It could happen that the secretary

called the Soviet

Embassy, and then the Soviet Embassy

called me back. What I recall is that the Embassy called me

back.

S: After the assassination of President Kennedy, the name Lee Harvey

Oswald became very important. And as a result of that you

brought all of the facts that you knew to the Cuban government.

A: Well, it, of course, is very important to the Cuban government.

S: Now, after you talked to the man from the Ministry about

this, what transpired? Was it followed up?

A: Let me explain this to you. I contacted the Ministry of Foreign

Relations, Foreign Affairs, which was my ministry and there I

spoke with "Nilo Otero, "

→ and Raul Road.?, stepped in for

a minute and then they said "Wait a minute. Let us call the

Ministry of Interior." Then they saw the importance of the

matter and they took care of it.

S: Was there a stenographer there at that time?

A: No, there was not. The interview was a personal interview

between myself and the Commandante, and I do not recall that there

was

a stenographer present.

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Azcue - Tape Two - Page 13.

1N 36829

S: Have you recalled now, later on, that there might have been

a stenographer present?

A: No, never. What I said there, because of the importance

it had, Mr. Pinero, you know, who raised about eighty questions,

many more than what you've asked me so far today.

S: Do you recall signing a statement after you had given them a

declaration?

A: No. No. It was a very informal thing., We drank coffee three

or four times.

C: One final question, what is the date stamped in the middle of

the page, in blue? October 10, 1963?

A: It is probably ours, but it seems very late because from

September 27th until October l0th, thirteen days transpired,

and I remember that my office was always up to date and, you

see, the applications always. left on the next mail delivery,

mail schedule which would never take more than three or four

days, so I think that the date stamped on this visa was the

date that. it was received here in Cuba. I will tell you, it

never took so long to get an application out. We would do that

immediately, do it immediately. It was just a routine matter.

I had already seen that date before and it seemed very rare

to me. It would never take me thirteen days. Three or four

days, maybe, but never thirteen.

B: I have only a couple of more questions. Would it be normal

procedure for the person who fills out the observation section

to sign their name in the lower right hand corner.

A: Yes, but the problem is that that signature does not corres-

pond to any of the people that worked at the office there.

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Azcue - Tape Two - Page 14

It could have been signed by the secretary, but the signature

does not correspond. It could have been signed by Mirabal or

myself. Once again the signature does not correspond. But

the signature would not be necessary for the Consulate stamp

is already on it.

B: Earlier you indicated that there came a time , you heard of

an investigation in New Orleans, Jim Garrison. At that time,

you recalled that you had the same theory that the person

might not be the same. Did you talk with anyone about that,

at that time?

A: Yes. I did, but not officially to anybody. I spoke with

Nilo, = Who was the director of the Ministry of Foreign

Affairs, and I also remembered that I spoke to Lechuga.

B: Could you give us their full names?

A: Yes. Nilo Otero.

B: Do you know if he took any measures after that conversation?

A: Mr. Otero told me that he would report it to those people

that could do something about it.

B: To your knowledge, do you know if he did so?

A: As far as I know, I think so. But you know, what I was saying

was so subjective, because I could not guarantee that I was

right. You see, since it was such a subjective statement, you

know, they probably took it with a grain of salt.

B: Let me direct your attention back in time to the period when

the Warren Commission was operating in the United States. Did

anyone speak to you at that time about any of these matters?

This would have been from December of '63 through September of

'64.

HH 56829 DocId:32263472 Page

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Azcue - Tape Two - Page 15.

A: Yes, I'm sure they did, but not officially. I mean, Fidel's

speech was just the definitive thing...expressed to the world

very clearly the whole situation that, you know, had occurred

to us, insuring, you know, our position and even included the

fight that I had with Oswald. Fidel said all this, you know,

in his speech. There was nothing more to say.

B: I cannot at this time think of anything more to ask you. I'm

sure that I will as soon as we say goodbye. I hope that you

will permit me, if I have second thoughts, to forward them to

you through your government.

A: It will be my pleasure.

D: One last question. After we said that we're finished, now I have

another question. I'm sorry. You told us when you started to

speak to us that you had gone over the story many times. You

tell us that you told the story to Mr. Piniero. Who else have

you reported this story to?

A: Officially, under the direction of the Ministry of Foreign

Affairs and also with Mr. Piniero. That is officially. Premier

Fidel got all the details that I could remember and by that

time everything that I knew, the Cuban government knew. At that

time I could remember everything that had transpired.

D: Have you been spoken to by any reporters, you know, American

reporters, or anything like that?

A: No, never. I never would have authorized any interview with me.

D: But, I presume that the reason you have. talked about this

several times, is because of your private conversations?

A: Yes,

sir.

The topic of conversation arose whenever we talked

about people trying to involve us or implicate us in the

HH 56829 Do0Id:32263472 Page 20

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## Page 21

Azcue - Tape

Two - Page 16

M7n282A 105441

assassination.

B: Did you have a chance to review earlier, before you talked

to us today, the report that you had made to the government

in 1963?

A: No, never.. There was an interview, I was interviewed by our

Consul in Washington, Mr. Escartin.

two months ago.

I said the same thing that I am telling you now. It is all

I know. That's all I remember. There may be different words

used by me, but same story.

B: Let me direct your attention to photo number 60, in the book,

in the photograph book. Do you know that individual?

A: No.

B: Is the face familiar at all?

A: No. It's not.

S: Mr. Azcue, on behalf of our Committee, I want to express our

thanks for having appeared here this afternoon, having subjected

yourself to our questions. You have been most patient with

us. You have indeed been helpful to us in our investigation

and we certainly appreciate your taking the time to be here.

A: Many thanks.

But I also feel that you can be very beneficial

to us, for you can clarify once and for all, for you can clarify

the facts of the assassination, surrounding the assassination

once and for all.

S: That's exactly why we

are here and why we asked you to be our

witness. Thank you.

1GCB209° : :

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Eusebio Azcue Interview...page 1

COMMITTEE SENSAMA

BLAKEY: I wonder if you would state your name for the

record.

AZCUE: Mr. Azcue - Eusebio Azcue.

BLAKEY: How old are you?

AZCUE: 66 years old.

BLAKEY: Are you now

employed?

AZCUE: I am now retired.

BLAKEY: Where were you formerly employed?

AZCUE: I was formerly employed in construction. I was

an architect and I was working until I got heartsick.

BLAKEY: Were you employed in 1963?

AZCUE: Yes. I was the Cuban consul.

BLAKEY: Where?

AZCUE: • Mexicö' City.

BLAKEY:. In that connection, do you recall meeting Lee Harvey

Oswald?

AZCUE: Yes. He came to us in order to apply for a

visa to go to Cuba.

BLAKEY: Could I show you a document then which is

marked "Request for a Visa No. 779"? May I ask you if that

is the copy of the visa filled out by Lee Harvey Oswald?

AZCUE: Yes. This is his signature. And this is his

•picture. The date is correct - September 27th. This visa

was issued in the Cuban consulate in Mexico City.

BLAKEY: Was this signature signed in your presence?

AZCUE: Yes, of course.

BLAKEY: Would you tell us in your own words all the

facts and circumstances that you recall about the application?

COMMITTEE, SENSON,

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Eusebio Azcue Interview...page

2

AZCUE: Yes, of course. I recall it quite well for I

had to remember this meeting on several different occasions when

many were trying to involve us in this assassination. He visited

the embassy on that date, September 27th, or a previous date to

solicit a visa.

BLAKEY: Would you remember the date of the first request?

AZCUE: It would be one of two days before the date on

the application.

BLAKEY: And do you remember the date of the second visit?

AZCUE: Exactly the date on the application - September 27th.

BLAKEY: Would you tell us exactly what happened the first

time he was with you?

AZCUE: He applied for a visa and brought a paper

accrediting him as a member of the Communist Party of the American

nations.

He also brought documents accrediting him as a member

of the Fair Play For Cuba, which was an association aiding Cuba

at the time. He said he was going to the Soviet Union but he

wanted an intransit visa to visit Cuba for one or two weeks.

BLAKEY: Do you recall what time of day it was

when he

came?

AZCUE: He came in the morning between 10:00 and 12:00

BLAKEY: Is there anything in your mind that

fixes it

or 10:00 and 1:00.

at this precise hour?

HH 56829 DocId:32263472 Page 23

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Eusebio Azcue: Interview...page 3

AZCUE: Yes. The consulate opened at 10:00 a.m. in the

morning to the public and it closed at 2:00 p.m. in the afternoon.

BLAKEY: So it had to be between 10:00 and 2:00?

AZCUE: Yes - 10:00 and 2:00 sometime. I think it was

around 1:00 o'clock. Then we asked him for photos to attach to

the application. Then he came the following day and brought

with him his photos -- probably that same date listed on the

application, the 27th of September.

BLAKEY: How long was he there the first time?

AZCUE: His first visit was quite short. He was

interested

in the visa and then we told him that he had to bring photos and

as a result we could not do anything more for him at that time.

BLAKEY: Was there any conversation had that did not

relate to the visa?

AZCUE: First day - first time he visited us - no; the

second time - yes - when he brought the photos.

BLAKEY: Was he with anyone the first day?

AZCUE: No. He always came alone.

BLAKEY: Did you see someone outside that he may have

gone out to meet?

AZCUE: That I was not able to see, for my office did not

have a window looking to the exterior of the building. I could

really not see outside.

BLAKEY: Was there anything that he said that would lead

you to believe that he may have been with someone else?

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Eusebio Azcue

Interview... page 4

AZCUE: NO.

BLAKEY:

Was there anything that he might have said

that would lead you to believe that he was alone?

AZCUE:

No. He had no reason to relate any of that informa-

tion to me.

BLAKEY: Could you tell us about what time he came the

second time?

AZCUE: He came at approximately the same time that he

came on his first visit - to bring. the photos and also to

fill out his application.

BLAKEY: Did he tell you where he got the photograph?

AZCUE: No, he did not.

BLAKEY: Did he indicate to you why he did not bring

them with him the first time?

AZCUE: Nobody brings them the first time. He brought

papers that belonged. to his wife that stated that she was a

citizen of the Soviet Union and he also brought papers that

accredited him as a citizen of the Soviet Union which I myself

did not understand. But later I will explain how I found out.

BLAKEY: Could you state what was said and done on the

second occasion?

AZCUE: On that occasion he asked me how long it would take

for the visa application to get authorized.

BLAKEY: And what did you tell him?

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Eusebio Azcue Interview... page

5

AZCUE: I told him that if he had friends in Cuba that

would recommend him, the process would become expedited - would

be expedited; but if not, the Cuban government would have to

begin

an

investigation and I do not know exactly how long it

would take.

BLAKEY: What was his response?

AZCUE: He began to get irritated. He also brought a

book of Lenin with him just for show, which I did not like. A

communist does not need a book to show that he's a communist.

He was somewhat upset already. He thought that we were going to

give him the visa immediately.

BLAKEY: What else did he say?

AZCUE: See, I told him that if he had a visa to go to

the Soviet Union I could give him an intransit visa to Cuba.

He then left to go to the Soviet embassy. I don't really

remember whether he went to the Soviet embassy that same day

or the following day, but on that same day or the following day

the Soviet embassy phoned me. The Soviet consul called me to

relate to me that the papers and documents that Oswald presented

were legitimate. His marriage certificate stating that he was

married to a Soviet resident and his documents that showed that

he had been to the Soviet Union were apparently in order.

At that time I asked the Soviet consul whether they were going

to give him a visa. He said:.. "No." He said he had to consult

Moscow. At that time I said: "Well, then, I have to consult

• Cuba."

HH 56829 DoOId:32263472 Page 26

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Eusebio Azcue Interview...page 6

BLAKEY: Did Oswald ever make any phone calls between

the Cuban and the Soviet embassy?

AZCUE: Not from the consulate. He visited the Soviet

embassy in person.

BLAKEY: Did he ever call the Cuban embassy from the

Soviet embassy?

AZCUE: It was the Soviet consul that called me.

BLAKEY: Could it be possible that he spoke to someone

else in your embassy besides yourself?

AZCUE: Yes, with my secretary.

BLAKEY: And who is she?

AZCUE: She is a Mexican lady, but someone that the

Cuban government fully trusts and also trusted by the consul:

that was going to replace me -- for I was getting ready to

return to Cuba. It appears to me that Oswald came back to

surprise me.

He came back and told me that he had already been

at the Soviet embassy and that all his papers had been considered

legitimate.

He thought that when he stated that to me I would

give him a visa. Then I told him:

"No, I have to consult

Cuba." He then got very upset and called us bureaucrats.

He

stated that that was bureaucracy, and at that point I also got

angry and asked him to leave.

Then he left.

BLAKEY: Did he say anything else?

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Eusebio Azcue Interview...page 7

AZCUE: Well, you know, he left mumbling to himself.

BLAKEY: Might you be able to remember anything else that

he might have said?

AZCUE: No, he just got very upset when he did not get

the visa.

BLAKEY: Did he ever give you any indication of why

he wanted to go to the Soviet Union?

AZCUE: Yes. He said he wanted to go to the Soviet Union

because he had already been there and

that was his place of

residence..

He also stated that his wife was a Soviet citizen --

and because he was a member of the Communist Party.

BLAKEY: Did he ever give you any indication of why

he wanted to go to the Soviet Union through Cuba?

AZCUE: Yes, of course.. He said that he wanted to see

our

revolution. He said he wanted to visit Cuba.

BLAKEY: HOW

long did he indicate that he wanted to stay

in Cuba?

AZCUE :

BLAKEY:

He said one or two weeks.

Doesn't the visa application state how long he

wanted to be there?

_AZCUE :

the visa.

A week or 15 days, or something to that effect. Here's

It says two weeks and, if (possihle, more time.

BLAKEY: Could you tell us the name of your secretary?

AZCUE: Yes, of course, Sylvia Duran. Now she is no longer

Sylvia Duran for she's now divorced and Duran was her husband's

She is very well known for she had very serious problems

HH 56829 DocId:32263472 Page 28

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Eusebio Azcue Interview...page

8

with the Mexican authorities on account of this visit. In

fact,

she was arrested.

BLAKEY: Did

you ever have any conversations with her

about her contact with Lee Harvey Oswald?

AZCUE: I don't think she had had any contact with him.

She was just there. Mrs. Duran found it very strange that I

had not given Oswald the visa considering that his wife was a

resident of the Soviet Union and that he, Oswald himself, had

been a resident of the Soviet Union and that he had papers

showing that he was a member of the Communist Party. But I

don't think she had any contacts with him.

STOKES: Who also would have been present in your office,

Mr. Azcue, on Oswald's first visit?

AZCUE: The secretary was there and also consul Mirabal

had become familiar with the papers and documents at the office

for he was getting ready to replace me.

STOKES: What is the name of the secretary?

AZCUE: Sylvia Duran.

STOKES: Could we have the full name of the consul that

was going to replace you?

AZCUE: At present, I do not remember his first name,

but his last name was Mirabal.

STOKES: But at any rate, it was he who replaced you as

consul?

AZCUE: Yes, at the end of November -- really, in the middle

of November when I returned to Cuba.

HH 56829 DooId:32263472 Page 29

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Eusebio Azcue Interview...page 9

STOKES: And where is Mr. Mirabal now?

AZCUE: Here in Cuba.

STOKES: You mentioned that Oswald brought some papers

with him when he first

came to the embassy. Did they have anything

to do with his membership in the Communist Party, you said?

AZCUE: Yes, I think so. Actually, though, I did not

analyze them very carefully.

STOKES: would those documents have been made a part of

the application?

AZCUE: No, no. They were just like introduction letters --

that kind of thing.

STOKES :

So then there would be no other papers in

connection with his application other than this application here?

AZCUE:

That was the only one.

STOKES :

Would there be any recording of the conversation

between you and Lee Harvey Oswald?

AZCUE: We did not use recorders at that time.

STOKES: Could you tell us the name of the Soviet consul

whom you spoke to?

AZCUE: No: The consul was a very good friend of mine -

Pablo Yazco - but I don't think he was in charge of that at the

time.

The man I spoke to was another whose name I really do not

remember now. I just don't recall the name of the consul that

replaced Pablo Yazco.

So many names that just get lost in your

memory. But in subsequent conversations with the Soviet embassy,

I was able to learn they thought that Oswald's papers were legitimate

HH 56829 DocId: 32263472 Page 30

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Eusebio Azcue Interview... page 10

-- his papers and his wife's papers. He lived in the States.

STOKES:

And then

Oswald's second visit to your embassy --

who would have been present?

AZCUE: The secretary - always the secretary - because

she would be the one who would receive visitors and then call me.

STOKES: How about the consul that replaced you -- would

he have been present?

AZCUE: I don't. think he was there.

I do remember that

Sylvia was there, though. He was only learning. He understood

no English and was not very active at that time.

STOKES :

Did you at some time come into contact with Marina

Oswald?

AZCUE: Marina? You mean the wife? No, no, never.

STOKES: During the time that Oswald was at your embassy

and was angry, do you recall his saying anything at all about

President Kennedy?

AZCUE: No, not in the least.

DODD: Just a couple of questions. (1) In looking at this

photograph -- if you will take a look at it -- I realize

that we are going back a long time -- Do you recall if Leé..

Harvey Oswald was dressed in a tie and sweater like that?

AZCUE: No, he was not. He had a suit on. I even

remember the color of the suit. It was a very light blue Prince

of Wales suit.

DODD: Was he wearing a tie?

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Eusebio Azcue Interview...page 11

AZCUE: Yes, he did. In Mexico everybody wears a tie

due to the weather.

DODD: Would wearing a sweater in Mexico be a common thing?:

AZCUE: It might be common, but most people normally

use a suit.

But I remember that he had a suit on.

DODD: Then you're saying that he would not have been

dressed the way that he's dressed in the picture.

AZCUE: No, that's right.

BLAKEY: Are there any places near your consul that he

could have had this photograph taken?

AZCUE: Yes, there's a place called Tocavaya four or

five blocks from the embassy where he could have taken the

picture. Also, maybe the secretary could have pointed out to

him a place where he could have gotten the picture. But he

didn't come back the same day; he came the following day.

DODD: Do you require a certain size of photograph for

your documents?

AZCUE: Yes, approximately the size of this one in the

photo in the application. We weren't very precise about. these

applications for they weren't, you know, extremely legal

documents.

DODD: And that photo looks like the man that came to

your office?

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Eusebio Azcue Interview... page 12

AZCUE:

Yes.

But as time goes by and you have an idea

of a face, you know, and then... See the impression I got was

that in person

he was thinner, his nose was more angular, angled, or

aquiline.

His

eyebrows were very straight. He had a very cold

look. It was a penetrating, cunning way of looking at you.

BLAKEY: Could you give us an estimate of his height?

AZCUE: That's very hard. He was about this big.

BLAKEY: How tall are you?

AZCUE: I'm over six feet tall. The man was probably

around five feet six,

five feet seven.

BLAKEY: How much would he have weighed?

AZCUE: I don't know.

He was thin. - very thin, with a

very aquiline nose.

BLAKEY: ¿ Maso menos ?

AZCUE: You know, in an amusement park they touch you and

they can guess exactly how much you weigh, but I don't have

that talent.

DODD: Approximately how old was he?

AZCUE: Oh, around 35 years old.

DODD: He looked like he was 35?

AZCUE: You know, he looked like he was a 35-year-old man

but a 35-year-old man who had been run through the mill.

he had a sort of wasted face, you know, he had a gangster looking

face, a hard face.

DODD: Is it a common experience to have Americans show

up at your consul?

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Eusebio Azcue Interview... page 13

MH 56829

AZCUE: Yes, there were many.

DODD: That wanted to go to the Soviet Union?

AZCUE: No, no, no, to visit Cuba only. Many, many came

trying to visit Cuba.

DODD: So the Oswald case was a rather rare occurrence?

AZCUE: Yes, it was very rare.

DODD: Did you make any

special notations due to special

circumstances?

AZCUE: No, because we just refused to give the visa.

would have taken detailed notes if I had given him the visa.

would have listed the reasons why I had given him the visa.

But not having given him the visa, I had nothing to write about.

This was only another one of those many requests that I knew would

not be granted. For without

contacts in Cuba, we could not grant

him a visa.

DODD: Did he leave any kind of forwarding address

at all

in case the visa came through?

AZCUE: He normally would have left an address if he had

left my office amiably, but since he didn't...

DODD: But was the visa application in process? I mean,

in other words, once he had filled out this - once he had stopped

at the soviet embassy, then the request was in. Then was there

?

any further action that you two or three weeks later...

AZCUE: We transmitted the applications to Cuba. And

then the person who was interested in the visa would call us

periodically -- this was routinely done in every consulate -- asking

for a reply. We constantly received telephone calls from people

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Eusebio Azue Interview... page 14

that had applied for a visa.

See, they're the ones who have

to call for they're the ones that are interested.

DODD: But he never did?

AZCUE: Right

DODD: Bureaucratically, once you've submitted an

application, you would presume that the process would continue

whether you receive the call or not?

AZCUE: Of course. ]

Like I said before, everything was

forwarded to Cuba. The Cuban government received the many

copies of the applications with the picture and the signature.

Our government received this application for a visa but they

never sent us an answer.

DODD: What do you mean by it was never answered?

AZCUE: We did not receive a reply for his visa from

the Cuban government.

DODD: Going back to the physical appearance of Lee

Harvey Oswald, apart from having a receding hairline, was there

any gray in Lee Harvey Oswald's hair?

AZCUE: You know, he had blond hair. It's all very

interesting. You see, this picture I really did not study

carefully. The picture was

taken by the secretary and she

- stapled it to the

application,

and we would send the whole

thing to Cuba.

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Eusebio Azcue Interview... page 15

BLAKEY: But it

is your memory that this picture portrays

the person that you saw.

AZCUE: The truth of the matter is that I remember him

differently. I remember him thinner, but it is possible that it

was the same person because pictures are never perfect. The

impression that I have is that he was a very thin man with a

very hard face -- a tough expression.

PREYER: The first time that he came to your embassy did

he ask

for an intransit visa or just a visa to Cuba?

AZCUE: He did not ask for an intransit visa because •

people are not normally familiar with this process. But he

did say that he wanted it to go on to Russia.

PREYER: On his next visit when he brought the photos, I

understand that he asked how long it would take for the Cuban

visa at that time and you told him that if he knew someone in

Cuba it would be quicker. So then did you give him any dates

as to how long it would take if he did not know anyone in Cuba?

AZCUE:

No, because I could not make any commitments.

PREYER: Then he left to go to the USSR embassy.

HOw

far apart are the two embassies in distance?

AZCUE: Three or four blocks.

PREYER: Then presumably he could have walked there?

AZCUE: Yes, of course,

it was the only way.

PREYER: Then did you receive a call shortly after that

from the Soviet embassy?

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Eusebio Azcue Interview...page 16

AZCUE: No, no, you see, it is likely that the interview

of the Soviet consul took some time. In fact, I believe that it

was the following day that he came back to see me.

He may

possibly have gone to the Soviet embassy on the same day, but

it was only after the phone call from the Soviet embassy that

Oswald visited the Cuban embassy again. It is known that he

went to the Soviet embassy and that the Soviet embassy called me,

but I think that this all happened the following day.

PREYER: And the Soviet embassy told you that they would

have to call Moscow?

AZCUE: Yes. They said that they could not grant him a

visa without consulting Moscow first.

PREYER: And then you told Oswald that?

AZCUE: When Oswald came to the Cuban embassy then, I also

told him that I could not give him a visa and that if the

soviet embassy had to consult Moscow, I had to consult Cuba.

PREYER: Did he ask how long it would take?

AZCUE: Yes. He asked that quite often, usually to Mrs.

Duran. You know, everybody asks that. And our answer is always

the same -- depending on your relations and friends and

contacts in Cuba because they can expedite the process.

PREYER: Did you or the Soviet embassy ever give him an

approximate time that it would take for him to get the visa. --

that it would be a long time, or that it would be three weeks?

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Eusebio Azcue Interview...page

17

AZCUE: No, no.

PREYER: I ask you this because should it be a relatively

short period of time that he would wait there for the visa. But

then you say you do not recall any specific...

AZCUE: I think that I saw a deliberate purpose in him

to get the visa from us. What he was interested in was getting.

the visa from the Cuban government immediately.

DODD: You would not have made any copies of the. documentation

that he showed you of the Fair Play For Cuba Committee or his

membership in the United States Communist Party?

AZCUE: I can never take away these papers from people:

They are only for them to show us as examples. But it's the same

at the Soviet embassy. They take data on the passport just like

we took data here from his passport. I would take notes from

documents like a passport and then return the passport to him --

never even retain them for a while.

BLAKEY: Did you examine the passport?

AZCUE: It is very likely - yes.

BLAKEY:

Would you have looked at the photograph on the

passport?

AZCUE: Yes, sure, you always look at them, but it is just

a quick glance.

BLAKEY:

Would you have noticed that the person you saw

before yourself was different from the person's photograph on

the passport?

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Eusebio Azcue Interview...page 18

AZCUE: Well, I'll tell you. The person that I found

different was the person that came to the embassy and told me

he was Oswald and the person that I later saw on TV when he was

assassinated at that Dallas

police station. At that point, it

looked like two different people.

BLAKEY: When you saw the passport, did you see any

difference between the picture in the passport and the person

standing in front of you?

AZCUE: No, no.. Normally I'm not a very analytical

person. You see, it's usually the secretary that deals with

all these matters. But the difference that I noted was between

the man who came to the consulate and the one that was assassinated.

BLAKEY: Mr. Azcue, let me show you a book of photographs

which is the JFK exhibit of photographs. The book will contain

a number of photographs. Would you look in each page slowly and

study each face and determine whether you can recognize any of

the persons there. Please take your time. Do not look for

any one particular person. Just tell us if you recognize any of

He photos.

AT THIS POINT, THE CUBAN GOVERNMENT ASKED FOR A

FIVE-MINUTE RECESS SO THAT MR. AZCUE COULD LOOK AT

THE PHOTOS CAREFULLY. FOR THE RECORD, WHEN THE SESSION

WAS RESUMED, THE SAME PEOPLE WERE PRESENT. APPROXIMATELY

15 MINUTES PASSED AS A RECESS IN WHICH MR. AZCUE HAS LOOKED

THROUGH THE PHOTOGRAPHS.

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Eusebio Azcue Interview...page 19

BLAKEY: Would you tell us which, if any, of the photo-

graphs are familiar.

to you?

AZCUE: No. 57 represents Oswald, but the Oswald

assassinated. But frankly, the idea that's in my mind of

Oswald - the one that I saw

at the consulate - is not so

similar to this photo. I recognize him because I remember the

television clips shown on of him when he was killed. If I had

not seen

those clips on television, I would not have recognized

him as the Lee Harvey Oswald for the memories that I have of

Oswald are similar to what appear on these photographs. Pictures

resemble the man but I insist that his nose is more aquiline,

that his eyelashes were straighter, his look was more cold,

and his cheeks seemed older - that of an older man. His cheeks

were sunken like that of an older man; also much older than this

photo. This man in the photo would be at the most 30 years old

and the man I saw in the consulate was 35, 36, 37; you know, this

man in the picture is much younger. You see, it was many years

ago, so - but I remember, Isaw the photo, the Oswald that had

been

assassinated. I did not recognize him as the same man that

visited me at the embassy - so different features - even a short

time - had only been a few months, from September to December.

BLAKEY: Can you remember the first time that you saw

Oswald after the assassination? Was it on TV?

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Eusebio Azcue Interview... page 20

AZCUE: Yes, it was on TV.

BLAKEY: Did you also see his photograph in the newspapers?

AZCUE: Yes, in some magazines.

BLAKEY: You said that you did not recognize the man when

you saw him in the photos and on TV?

AZCUE: That is correct. I noticed some differences.

I said: "Damn, this is not the man. This does not look like

the man who went to my office."

BLAKEY: Did you bring that difference to the attention

of anyone else?

AZCUE: Yes, I did - with comrades, you know, from the

ministry.

BLAKEY: Did you write any memoranda?

AZCUE :

No, because such citings are usually very subjective.

And they were just quick glances and could be inaccurate,

especially those that I saw on TV.

BLAKEY: What about those in the newspaper?

AZCUE: Those were not very clear. A clearer one was the

film clip on IV when Oswald was killed at the Dallas police

station. He makes a gesture of pain where he's got gleaming

eyes, where he seemed to be younger and fatter than the man

that had come to see me. I made it known to my superiors, but

it was a very subjective thing, you know. The man that I saw

on TV did not resemble the man that I had seen in my office.

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Eusebio Azcue Interview... page 21

BLAKEY: And what conclusion, if any, did you draw from

that?

AZCUE:

It was something that I saw and then said -

problem is that you cannot really rely on my fast glance or a

fast glance of a picture when a person is being killed. I

immediately recognized that that was not the man that I had seen

in the embassy. If it is true or not, I cannot really say for

certain, but it seemed to me it was not the same man.

BLAKEY: Do you think that if you saw a photo of the man

who was in your consulate that you would recognize it now?

AZCUE: I think yes - yes, yes, yes. Yes, I think so.

I think it's only a matter of, you know, angles; so I was seeing

the man face to face. .And he was furious. But I also was

furious. Thus the face I saw was one that was bothered and hard -

tough - not the same face that I saw on this man here in the

photograph. This man has a soft face, even to his death. Even

in his death he has a passive look. It's a subjective opinion.

Let me tell you. Months later, or maybe years later, I heard

the mayor of New Orleans.

BLAKEY: You mean the prosecutor in New Orleans, Garrison.

AZCUE: Yes, that's right, Garrison. He began an

investigation and he said there were two Oswalds.

Then my

theory was, you know, reaffirmed. That gave credence to my

theory

• that the man that was assassinated and the man that

visited me were different persons. These are just subjective

appraisals. I've got them.

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Eusebio Azcue Interview...page 22

BLAKEY: President Castro, then Premier Castro made a

speech a couple of days after the assassination in which he in-

dicated

that he had had a contact with the Cuban Embassy in Mexico

City. Do you recall that contact?

AZCUE: Yes, I do because he had had contact with me and

only with me. The contact that I'm talking about is Oswald's

contact only with me.

LOPEZ: Professor Blakey is referring to contact of Fidel

with the Cuban Embassy.

AZCUE: Oh, I understand, at that time I made some declara-

tions just like I am making them now. The exception of the dual

Oswald theory because of not seeing the photographs on television.

BLAKEY: Did you speak directly with the President?

AZCUE: No, I spoke to the man in charge of the Ministry.

It was the guy in charge of the Ministry of Foreign Relations,

Foreign Affairs.

BLAKEY: By what medium did you talk to him?

AZCUE: I spoke to him in person.

BAKEY: Did you go from Mexico to Havana?

AZCUE: No, no, I had already come to Havana. I was in

Havana.

See, I came to Havana from Mexico on November 18th and

on the 22nd was

Kennedy's death.. So immediately, as soon

as I

saw the name I remembered. So at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs

I said:

"This man requested a visa from me." So then I had to

make declarations, very exhaustive declarations, where I

stated

the same thing that I said now.

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Eusebio Azcue Interview...page 23

BLAKEY: Was that report or declaration reduced to

writing at that time?

AZCUE: I think so.

There was no stenographer there,

but it may have been taped.

BLAKEY (then referring himself to the Cuban officials) :

Would it be possible for you to furnish us with a copy of that

declaration if that is available?

VILIA: We have no recordings or written declarations

about that declaration that - written reports about the

declaration that Mr. Azcue made. It is possible that it exists,

but we have not located it as of yet.

BLAKEY (to Mr. Azcue) : Can you recall the person to

whom the declaration was made?

AZCUE: Yes. It was the person in charge of the ministry

of, you know, the interior - foreign relations, foreign affairs.

LOPEZ: What was his name?

AZCUE: Yes, it was Manuel Piniéro, Comrade Manuel

Piniero.:

BLAKEY: (Quote) In an interview, July 1967, with a British

journalist, Homer Clark, Castro said that Oswald came to the

Cuban consulate twice, each time for approximately 15 minutes.

"The first time I was told he wanted to work for us." He was

asked to explain, but he wouldn't. He would not go into details.

The second time he said that he wanted to free Cuba from Imperialism.

Then he said something like:

"Someone ought to shoot that

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Eusebio Azcue Interview...page

24

President Kennedy." Then Oswald said (and this is exactly how

it was reported to me) :

"Maybe I will try to do it."

Would

you comment on this statement?

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