SWORN TESTIMONY OF OREST PENA
Agency: HSCA
Originator: HSCA
From: PENA, OREST
Document date: 06/23/1978
Document type: TRANSCRIPT

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JFK Assassination System

Identification Form

Agency Information

Date:

10/1/201

AGENCY :

RECORD NUMBER:

RECORD SERIES :

AGENCY FILE NUMBER :

HSCA

180-10075-10168

NUMBERED FILES

010136

Document Information

ORIGINATOR:

HSCA

FROM:

PENA, OREST

TO :

TITLE:

SWORN TESTIMONY OF OREST PENA

DATE: 06/23/1978

PAGES:

36

SUBJECTS:

AANTI-CASTRO ACTIVITIES

OSWALD, LEE, POLITICAL AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES

FBI, ADMINISTRATION

DE BRUEYS, WARREN

DOCUMENT TYPE: TRANSCRIPT

CLASSIFICATION : Unclassified

RESTRICTIONS: Consulted

CURRENT STATUS : Withhold

DATE OF LAST REVIEW: 07/22/1993

OPENING CRITERIA:

COMMENTS:

ONE COPY. BOX 187.

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UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

HOUSE SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS

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Hale Boggs Federal Building

Room 125

500 Camp Street

New Orleans, Louisiana

Friday, June 23, 1978, 3:00 p.M.

APPEARANCES:

Robert Genzman

House Select Committee on Assassinations

House Annex #2

Room 3371

Washington, D. C.

20515

SWORN TESTIMONY OF

OREST PENA

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MR. GENZMAN: My name is Robert Genzman, and

I am

a Staff Counsel to the House Select Committee on

Assassinations. I have been designated counsel empowered

to take statements under oath, pursuant to the House

Resolution 222 and Committee

Rule 4.

I would ask the Magistrate to identify himself

and to state that he is authorized to administer oaths

pursuant to the laws of the United States.

MAGISTRATE JOHANNESEN: I am Ingard O.

Johannesen, United States Magistrate for the Eastern District

of Louisiana. And I am authorized by the statutes to

administer oaths in this district.

MR. GENZMAN: Would you please swear the

witness?

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MAGISTRATE JOHANNESEN: Would you please

stand and raise your right hand?

Do you swear the answers and testimony you

are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and

nothing but the truth, so help you God?

MR. OREST PENA: I do.

Whereupon,

OREST PENA

having been duly sworn by Magistrate Ingard 0. Johannesen,

¡ Magistrate Judge in and for the State of Louisiana,

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testified as follows:

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EXAMINATION

BY MR. GENZMAN:

0.

the record?

A.

A.

MI. Pena, would you state your full name for

Orest Pena.

What is your address?

Sixty-one hundred Argonne Boulevard, New

Orleans, Louisiana, 70124.

Have you been given a copy of our Committee

Rules and House Resolutions 222, 433 and 760?

A.

Yes.

Would you please read Committee Rule 4 to

yourself?

A.

A.

voluntarily?

A.

Yes. I did read it already.

Do you understand it?

Yes, I do.

Mr.

Pena, are you making this statement

Yes.

Is it true that you are not under subpoena

for this statement?

No, I am not.

For the record, I want to advise you that you

have the right to have counsel present.

Do you have

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counsel present?

A.

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No, I don't. I don't want any.

The entire record of this statement under oath

will be transcribed. You will be sent the original and asked

to sign and verify it. You should return the signed and

verified copy of the transcript to the Committee. The

Committee will then provide you with a copy of it.

• If when you are sent the original transcript

П.Р.

any

to sign and verify, you desire to make any changes for you-

reason, you should contact me and I will make the necessary

arrangements to have you initial or make any changes that you

desire to make.

At this time, MI. Pena, I would like to show

you a document labeled JFK Exhibit No. 94. Have you had a

chance to read this document?

A.

Yes, I did.

Do you understand it?

A.

Yes, it is the same one you explained to me

that I will not be punished for giving knowledge that I have

about the CIA.

Yes, this is a letter from the Central

Intelligence Agency to the Chairman of the House Select

Committee on Assassinations, the Honorable Louis Stokes 9

dated March 23, 1978gwhich deals with the release from CIA

secrecy agreements.

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Mr. Pena, I would like to ask you a few

questions about your background. Have you ever acted

as an

informant for the FBI?

A.

Yes, sir.

Can you tell me the period of time during

which you were an informant with the FBI?

I was an informer -- I started to be

an

informer for the FBI around 1959, 1960. I can't remember

exactly what year but I remember that I was called to the

office of the FBI in New Orleans and I was asked if I could

help to inform the FBI about people that was trying to do

propaganda for Castro or was talking bad about the United

States.

This was asked to me by the man in charge of the

FBI special agency, the FBI in New Orleans.

He told me a lot of spanish people used to

come here on the ship and I could help a lot to the United

States. He assigned Warren C. de Brueys, one of the FBI

agents for me to report to him of any information I got, to

report it to him which I did for many months and years.

I

can't remember exactly for how many years but I was given

to him.

He used to come to my place of business very, very

frequently.

0.

Would the time period be in the early 1960's?

A.

I can't remember exactly what year I started.

I can't say 1959 or 1960 but you can check on the time

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because in New Orleans was formed the Cuban Revolutionary

Front, Cuban Revolutionary Front which the man in charge was

Sergio Arcacha Smith. Warren C. de Brueys used to go a lot

to the office to talk to Sergio Arcacha Smith. Another

person that used to go there a lot was William Ferrie which

Mr. de Brueys knew very well. And Mr. Ferrie used to take

MI. Sergio Arcacha Smith in his car almost every day to his

house

after the office was closed.

Do you know whether warren de Brueys ever

attended any meetings

of the Cuban Revolutionary Front?

A.

He was very frequently in the office talking

in private with MI. Sergio Arcacha Smith.

I believe you stated

earlier you provided the

FBI with information about the Cuban groups in New Orleans?

A.

Yes, I did.

Did you ever work in any way for Fidel Castro?

A.

I did not.

Was the information which you provided the

FBI information which you gained by way of your position as

a bar owner in New Orleans?

A.

Yes. When seamen came around and people that

was working here, Spanish people including Cuban, they

was

talking so I knew most of the Spanish people in this town

for being so long a barroom owner.

The next day I called Warren C. de Brueys at

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his office and told him I had some information for him. He

came to my place of business and I gave him the information.

I never did ast hin hat ha did with, what he founa out. It

was my duty to give it to him and what he did was none of my

business.

0.

Were you ever paid for any of the information

which you provided to the FBI?

A.

I never was paid a single penny. Plus the

brought me a lot of cubans that was stow away.

ReFugee - ON ShIp. DRI

They brought

weRe UP.

them to me at my place of business and told me to give them

a.room and board and find a job. Some of those people still

live here in New Orleans which I can give you the names and

prove it was true that the FBI and Immigration brought

them to me to help them and they would pay for whatever had

to be done. I never gave them a bill because I thought that

was doing something good for the united states and something

ThROWiNg

good for the cause of drawing Castro away from Cuba.

I believe you stated earlier that you gave

your information to FBI Special Agent Warren C. de Brueys.

Did you ever provide information to any other FBI agents

before the assassination of President Kennedy?

Ao

Warren C. de Brueys was the FBI agent that was

assigned to me.

He gave me the phone and every time I called

to the FBI office, I asked for Warren C. de Brueys. I said

I was told to ask for him, that he would be the one to take

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care of whatever I had to tell the FBI. He was the one that

used to come to my place of business.

After the assassination, a lot o£

the FBI used

to come to my place of business which I had & names they used

to come to aggravate and to give me a hard time and tell me to

go to the office because the boss wanted to talk to me and

asking me about the same questions over and over and over

until I got very tired. I called my attorney which

at that

MehAdeR-TRAFFICCOURT-JUdge UP.

time was Dave McHoward

called George, and explained to

Judge -mehnues

George icHeward what the FBI

was doing to me and he told me

to go and see the lawyer that worked at his office, his

private office.: So I went and talied to Join lambared and

Rouse

John Jambarella told me, "Go back to your hosue and get the

names of those FBI and bring it to me and I am going to have

something to work out, something to call somebody and tell

who they are."

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House

So I came back to the office and the next

morning two FBI came to my place of business, waked me up

very early and told me they wanted to take me to the office

of the FBI; the boss wanted to talk to me... I said, "Yes.

But

before I go you have to give me your name." They tola me

their names. I did not beltep.

it. I said, "You have to

government

give me your govenment identification." So they gave it to

me and I put their names and I hold their names.

The next day, same thing happened. I took the

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name again and I took

eight names of eight different FBI

agents. Then I went to Mr. John Tambarella and gave it to

John Tambarella and John Tambarella called the EBI, the

special FBI agency and explained what was happening, that

Mr. Pena, that is me, said, "If they don't quit harassing me

I will file charges in federal court against the FBI of the

United States."

Do you remember how many times you spoke to

Warren C. de Brueys and gave him information?

A.

Many, many, many times. Sometimes Warren C.

de Brueys used to come to my place of business too doing some

kind of investigation and talking to all the customers... He

used to come and talk to customers.

Did you ever meet with Mr. de Brueys at any

other location besides your place of business?

A..

Yes, I met with him at the FBI office and I

saw him and talked a little bit at the Cuban Revolutionary

Front office. At the Balter. Building was the name of the

building where the office was on Camp Street all the way to

St. Charles was a building with an alley in the front. The

building had

three or four different entrances.

So I saw him and I talked to him at the office

of the Cuban Revolutionary Front which Arcacha was there

among other members.

Mr. Pena, have you ever acted in any capacity

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for any other government agency?

A.

Yes, I did for another United States agency.

What was that agency?

I would not tell you.

What is your reason for keeping the name of

the agency secret?

A.

My reason is if I cannot prove the truth of

what happened with Warren C. de Brueys which to me is the

most important person in the Kennedy assassination, why

should I give any other allegations? If I cannot prove

something that I worked for the man, that I reported to the

man, if I cannot prove those things, why should I put some-

thing else?

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Are you saying that if you can prove certain

allegations concerning Warren C. de Brueys, you would then

reveal a relationship with another government agency?

Ao:

I do it this way for the United States. I

give all my Constitutional

rights. I would get a lie test,

whatever the government thinks is right.

Q.

A.

Are you speaking of a polygraph

examination?

OP

to

Any of those that you want too. If you ask me

if I work with the FBI -- Warren C. de Brueys told me before,

about a week or ten days more or less before I went to

testify to the Warren Commission that if I talk about him he

will get rid of my ass.

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we will get into that issue.

Ao

You can ask me if I was ever an informant for

any other agency in the world, but two agencies in the United

States. One was the FBI and one more. Then if I am right,

the government will have to force Warren C. de Bruays to take

the same tests I take.

Mr. Pena, do you have any information as to

whether lee Harvey Oswald was ever an FBI informant?

Oswald used to go to a restaurant on the

Decatur and Iberville. The name of the owner was Mr. Pedro,

a. Greek, and Mi. Oswald used to go to the restaurant in the

morning with other federal

agents from the Customs House

Building. To prove that I was there, that I saw Oswald, that

I saw all those agents drinking coffee, having breakfast in

the restaurant in the morning, I will name -- I have more than

one but I will name one name right now. MI. Victor Perez

which lived in Altoona, Florida, Zip Code 32702.

This man was a bar operator in the 200 block

st.

of Decatur and we used to go in the morning and talk about

business and we was watching and looking at all the federal

agents which we knew very well because many of these federal

agents speak Spanish and others was married to some Spanish

women that I knew.

Who specifically was with Oswald on these

occasions?

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I cannot say such-and-such a person was with

him or talking to him but I knew his face.

I knew

the face

of a lot of the other agents from the Customs House Building

that go to the restaurant thare and I saw them together having

breakfast together at the restaurant.

Did you ever see Oswald in the presence of

Warren de Brueys?

A.

I'd better don't answer this question right

now.

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My question, MI. Pena, is whether you ever saw

Lee Harvey Oswald at any restaurant or any other location

with Warren D. de Brueys?

A.

Yes, I will testify that Warren C. de Brueys

being at the Pedro, the Greek restaurant on Decatur and

Iberville at the same time that Oswald was. at the restaurant

in the company of other federal agents.

Do you know the name of that restaurant?

A.

I do not know the name of the restaurant but

the restaurant, the owner of the restaurant was MI. Pedro

and we used to call him Pedro the Greek.

Did you ever observe Oswald and de Brueys

speaking to each other?

A.

I cannot answer that question.

If I cannot

prove myself what de Brueys did to me, how am I going to

prove other things?

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My question is, Mr. Pena,

do you recall ever

seeing Oswald and de Brueys speaking together or acting in

such a way that you would think that they knew each other?

A.

I believe they knew each other very, very well.

Can you explain why you believe Oswald and

de Brueys knew each other very well?

A.

My belief, I would have to report in as

informant to Mi. de Brueys, I have

to report myself to Mr.

de Brueys and that is my point of view on that question.

When Oswald was transferred to Dallas, Mr.

Warren C. de Brueys was transferred to Dallas, Texas at

the same time.

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Do you know when Oswald went to Dallas and

Mr. de Brueys went to Dallas?

A.

No, I do not know when Oswald went to Dallas

but I know when Warren C. de Brueys went to Dallas because

he came to my place of business and tola me that I do not

have to call him any more at his office because he was

transferred to Dallas.

Do" you know whether de Brueys was transferred

to Dallas after the assassination of President Kennedy?

I am very sure..

I am very, very, very sure it

was before the assassination.

Are you aware that de Brueys was in Dallas

after the assassination to help with the FBI investigation

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of

the assassination of President Kennedy?

A.

I do not know anything about that.

Is it your recollection then that de Brueys

left New Orleans and went to Dallas before the assassination

of President Kennedy?

Ao

Yes, sir.

Do you feel that the fact that de Brueys went

to Dallas bad to de- before the assassination of

President Kennedy and before Oswald himself was killed@

A... .

That is for you to find out.

Thad to do

DP

with the

• Do you have any opinion on this? assassination.

A.

Do you make any investigation about the camp

to train Cubans to go fight Castro for the Bay of Pigs?

Those Cubans were training in New Orleans under the command

of the FBI and the CIA. I can tipk this vay because I had

FReNd.

three of four of my customers, people that used to live in my

hotel or rooming house that went and took the training here.

Is there a connection between the training of

Cubans in New Orleans and the assassination of President

Kennedy?

A..

I

am very sure, yes, sir.

Could you be more specific?

A.

Yes. One of the men that was training was a

Cadre to train all the other Cubans, was a very smart man. I

believe he was a Captain in the Cuban Army during the Batista

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OP.

EL

regime.

His name was Juan Ilario Caballero, alias Kel-

Guajiro.

This man right now, he did not die yet, is in

Texas State Prison, Huntsville, Texas for killing somebody

in Texas. This man is married to a lady in New Orleans that

has a daughter which I know very, very well.

This man several times before the death of

President Kennedy when he got drunk in my place of business,

he was very mad at the President.. A lot of times, more than

a dozen times, he said in Spanish that the only way was to

get rid of that son-of-a-bitch, that means the President of

the United States.

He's got one more brother who was a high rank

in the Cuban Army during the Batista regime and he was Cadre

in the training camp the CIA got here. And he got a cousin

that looks similar to Oswald. I cannot remember the name of

the cousin of the brother but Juan Ilario Caballero will tell

you. If you go to the State Texas Prison in Huntsville and

ask Juan Caballero who was

his cousin and his brother, then

we are going to start something about the death of President

Kennedy •

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Mr. Pena, let's return to the questions

involving the contacts which you saw Oswald

a had with margr

C. de Brueys. Can you

you

explain any reasons which

dermight

have which led you to believe that Oswald was de brueys'

informant?

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A.

I better not say anything else.

More or less,

I told you I knew Oswald.

When Oswald was giving propaganda

in favor of Cuba at the old International Trade Mart, I was

there.

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I will get into Oswald's activities in New

Orleans just a bit later.

Can you offer any other reasons which have led

you to believe Oswald was an FBI informant?

Ao

I cannot go back. We would have to bring

Mr. Carlos Bringier because Oswald went to

Carlos Bringier

and tried to fight in favor of the Cubans so we would have

to come back to the same thing and that doesn't matter.

Do you want to add anything concerning Oswald's

coming to see Carlos Bringier and offering his services to

Carlos Bringier to train anti-Castro Cubans?

A.

Between Carlos Bringier and Oswald, the only

thing else I want to talk is about the fight they got into

on Canal Street.

Do you have

any specific reasons which have

led you to believe Oswald was an FBI informant? For instance,

did you ever see Oswald and de Brueys entering the restaurant

together of leaving the restaurant together?

A.

I cannot say entering the restaurant but I

saw

Oswald and de Brueys, MI. David Smith, MI. Rogue from the

Immigration Department and other government agents leaving

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the restaurant and going to the Customs House Building which

at that time was an office for different kinds of government

agencies.

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Did Oswald ever accompany this group either

when they entered of left the restaurant?

A.

Yes, he did and I got Mr. Perez that I gave

you the address on to prove it.

Did. Oswald act like he knew any of this group

which came into the restaurant frequently?

A.

Yes, they knew each other very, very well.

Did you see him talking with any members of

this group?

A.

Yes, they was

talking. I can't say who was

talking to whom but they was talking and they was in the same

group.

Did you ever see Warren de Brueys in particular

talking with Lee Harvey Oswald?

A.

I just can't say that exactly.

Mr. Pena, when did you first make the

allegation that Oswald was an FBI informant?

I don't remember exactly. I went to the Warren

Commission.

I was subpoenaed to go

the Warren Commission

WANt

and I remember exactly that I went to accuse Warren C.

de Brueys because I believe that Warren C. de Brueys if he

really wanted, he could save the life of President Kennedy.

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We will talk about your Warren Commission

testimony later.

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Do you recall making a public statement that

Lee Harvey Oswald was an FBI informant around 1975?

A.

Yes, I still believe that he was an informant.

Do you recall making a statement on this issue

to CBS television?

A.

Yes, CBS.

• Do you recall ever making this statement before

that time publicly?

A I talked to a lot of friends.

A lot of people

have been

talking to me about the assassination of President

Kennedy and I talked a lot and I told them I believe he was

an

informer -- not informer, that he was an agent of the

United States government.

Are you saying that Oswald was an agent of

the United States? :

A.

In my belief, yes, sir.

Why did you wait so long to make public your

allegation that Oswald was a U.S. government agent of some

sort or an informant?:

A.:

Well, I tell you I did not wait very long. I

went - when the Warren Commission subpoenaed me for the

Warren Commission report, I went. I tried to talk. I believe

the name of the person in charge was Mi. Liebeler, if I am

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Is that Mr. Liebeler?

Liebeler, yes, sir.

I told him I want to accuse Warren C. de Brueys

so you can see from this story that I have been trying to

accuse this FBI agent.. At that time I was having in mind to

accuse him of these spanish Cubans that was training in a

camp in New Orleans but when I saw Mr. Liebeler did not

cooperate with me and did not let me talk, I said, "I might

as well keep my mouth shut." I don't accuse anybody else but

Warren C. de Brueys.

I believe you said earlier that when you

testified before the Warren Commission, you felt that the FBI

was intimidating you into giving a certain sort of testimony.

Did Warren de Brueys intimidate you?

A.

Yes, 5iI.

In what way?

A.

A few days, "I can't say one week or two weeks

or ten days, but a few days before I went to testify in the

Warren Commission, he came to my place of business at 117

Decatur and called me to the table and told me he wanted to

talk to me. I went to him because

I used to talk to him

almost every three or four days. He told me that if I talk

anything about him he will get rid of my ass.

Why do you think he made this threat to you?

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Because in my belief he knew I was going to

accuse him at the Warren Commission testimony. He was trying

to impress me not to do so which I went and I accused him and

I was having in mind to accuse the Cubans that was training

in New Orleans. When I saw what happened, how much they was

covering it up, taking away, that I did not express myself

about de Brueys so I changed my mind and I did not say any-

thing about the Cubans, the training camp in New Orleans.

Do you feel that warren de Brueys might have

wanted to intimidate you to prevent you from

I saying that

Oswald was an FBI informant?

A.

Yes, could be too.

Again, I want to ask you why you waited so

long before you publicly stated that you had reason to

believe that Oswald was an FBI informant?

A.

Ewrote

to Mr. Lane. The letter came back

one year or so later:: I believe his name is Mark Lane.

I went. to New York and I took the address of

the editor of his book and I took some photostatic - some

papers that I still have, to him.

I could not see him but his editor or one of

the persons that worked in New York City, I believe Sixth

Avenue, told me that he would see that Mr. Mark Lane got

those papers.

MI. Harold Weisberg came to me too trying to

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get some information. Mr. Weisberg

brought me some papers

from the Archives of the United States. Some of the papers

he brought me from the Archives was one of the informants of

the FBI Of

the United States. The name of the person is

Hector Jose Garcia.

According to the Archives file, MI. Hector Jose

Garcia said that I am supposed to talk one night directly to

Mr. Castro in Cuba. "I would like to offer myself again and

to bring MI. Hector Jose Garcia and let both of us take a lie

test to see who is right and who is wrong

and then you will

see what the FBI is doing trying to discourage me.

Mr. Pena, is there any substantiation for your

allegation that Oswald was an FBI informant? Can you offer

any other proof that Oswald was an FBI informant?

A..

I will not talk anything else about it. This

matter, it would be more to talk about but this matter, we

have

to come to something else who is Sergio Arcacha Smith

and the office at the Balter Building.

I did not understand that.

A.

The offices of Sergio Arcacha Smith

and the

FBI -- when all this matter is straightened up then we will

talk about some other offices in the same Balter Building.

What about?

A.

Some other offices in the same Balter Building

where the federal government was working.

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It is another office in the Balter Building..

You better leave it like that, like it is. I do not want to

go any farther.

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Do you have anything else to offer on the

allegation that Oswald was an FBI informant?

A.

Not right now.

I would like to ask you questions concerning

Lee Harvey Oswald!s. activities in New Orleans. Did you have

occasions to observe Oswald in New Orleans?

Ao

Yes, I did, sir, besides the restaurant

activity.

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Did you see him passing out Fair Play for

Cuba pamphlets in New Orleans?

A.

Yes, sir. I saw in front of the old

International Trade Mart in the 100 block of Camp Street.

I saw him fighting with Mr. Carlos Bringier on Canal Street

which after the police got there and arrested both of them,

Mr. Oswald and Mr. Bringier and took them to jail, I went to

MI. Carlos Bringier's place of business and I talked to his

brother-in-law. His name is Commandante Pelaec. He was a

big name in the Cuban Army.

Commandante Pelaec, who is MI. Bringier's

brother-in-law, I told Mr. Palaed that Bringier was fighting

with Oswald on Canal Street and the police took him to jail.

Z

Mr. Palaec told me he did not have nobody to leave the store,

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clothes

store, novelty store, whatever you want to call it..

For me to do him a

favor and go to the police station and

place the bond which I went to the First Presinct Police

Station and I asked the sergeant which knew me very well that

I wanted to place a bond. He said, "Yes, Orest. You just

have to put $25."

Well, I put $25 for Bringier's bond.

I came back to Mr. Bringier's store and Me.

Pelaec gave me back my $25 that I left at the police station.

Why don't you ask the chief of police why he

did not tell the Warren Commission Pena was the one that let

Bringier out? That proves there that I knew oswald very, very

well. I was there. My bartender was there, too, Evaristo

Rodriguez.

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Do you know whether any FBI agents

were

present during this fight?

A.

I do

not know. I cannot say anything else.

Do you know whether Oswald ever came to your

bar, the Habana Bar, in New Orleans.

A.

Yes, sir.

Did you personally see him at your bar?

A.

Yes.. He came one night with two or three more

guests. They asked for something. One guy asked for tequilla,

I believe.. Another asked for another drink, and he asked for

a lemonade. The matter, why I never did forget was because in

my place of business we never did for many, many years sell a

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lemonade:

My bartender asked me, "Do we sell lemonade here?"

in Spanish. My bartender and me, we talk in Spanish ali the

time.

I said, "Yes, we sell lemonade. Get a glass of water

and put two or three spoons of sugar and half a lemon and put

ice and charge twenty-five cents."

According to the bartender, because I did not

hear that, Mi. Rodriguez, Oswald started bitching about the

price of the lemonade for twenty-five cents.

He said I was

a Capitalist or something like that. So I told the bartender

that the second drink, he can go and drink it somewhere else.

He had to pay for the first one.

Did you personally see Oswald in your bar?

Ao.

Yes, I did personally see him in my bar.

Can you identify the people that accompanied

Oswald in your bar?

A.

NO.

Were they Cubans?

A.

They looked Spanish.

My bartender, Mr. Rodriguez, would answer the

question much better because he came exactly to the table

where those people were sitting.

Do you recall whether any of the Spanish

individuals spoke with any particular accent?

A.

No, I was not there. I was away from where

they were sitting.

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All that I knew that was talked in that

conversation was because the bartender told me about it.

Q. Do you recall seeing Oswald in New Orleans

at any other times?

A.

I told you already where I saw him.

Do you recall applying for a passport in

New Orleans on June 24th of 1963?

A.

Yes, sir.

I am referring now to warren Commission

Pena

Exhibit No. 1.

A

That's all right. Don't show it to me.

I want you to put this down. The government

said -= I said that I took the passport at the Customs House

Building and the government said that they did not issue me

the passport in that building. I would like to find out who

is right, the government of me.

When you say "the government" has said this,

what particular agency or individual are you speaking of?

A.

Just the government. Government agencies.

Did you know that Lee Harvey Oswald applied

for a passport in New Orleans on the same day, June 24th, 1963?

A.

I was told so by Mi. Weisberg.

Do you remember seeing Lee Harvey Oswald on

that day?

A.

No, I do not remember.

I do not remember seeing

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Do you think if Oswald had been present at the

same time applying for a passport that you would remember

seeing him?

A.

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Yes, sir.

When I stated that Oswald applied for a

passport in New Orleans on June 24th, 1963, I was referring

to

• Warren Commission Exhibit No. 781. Have you seen a copy

of this Warren Commission Exhibit?

A..

The only thing I saw was my own. I was told

that he was -- applied for the passport the same day I

applied. That is what

I was told before.

At this time have you seen a copy of Warren

Commission Exhibit 781?

A.

This time, yes, sir.

Do you know why your name would have been

omitted

OP

ommitted from a list provided by the State Department to the

Warren Commission which included the names of the people who

applied for passports in New Orleans on June 24th, 1963?

I am specifically referring to Warren Commission Exhibit

No.: 952.

A.

I do not know but maybe they did want to skip

me because I did work for them as an informant.

Are you saying that because you worked for the

FBI as an informant, you name might have been purposely

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ommitted from this list?

Ao

Might be.

Do you know whether passports were issued

in New Orleans at different locations?

A.

That I do not know, sir.

After you were issued that passport, sir, did

you ever travel to Mexico?

A.

Yes, sir.

Do you recall when you traveled to Mexico?

A.

I used to travel there almost every year.

It is a different part every year, to a different part of

the world.

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Did you ever travel to Mexico in the fall of

1963,

specifically in September or October of 1963 just before

the

assassination of President Kennedy?

A.

I do not believe so.

Did you ever see Lee Harvey Oswald in Mexico?

A.

No.

Did you ever go to Mexico of any other countries

intelligence

on any

Intelligenee mIssIon:

A. i

No, sir.

Did you ever do any work for the Central

Intelligence Agency?

A.:

I will not answer any questions about the

Central Intelligence Agency.

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Mr. Pena, I would like to show you again the

document labeled JFK Exhibit No. 94 which is a release letter

from the Central Intelligence Agency to the House Select

Committee on Assassinations. I would like to ask you again

whether you would answer any questions concerning any

relationship you might have had with the Central Intelligence

Agency?

A.

No, sit.

Q.

Will you answer any questions concerning any

possible relationship with the Central Intelligence Agency

at any future time?

A.

Maybe if you

investigate and get the real

facts of the training camp that was run by the FBI and the

CIA of the United States in New Orleans, the camp in New

Orleans. Maybe I

will remember something else later on.

I would next like to ask you if you know or

new in 1963 any of the

following individuals: Sergio Arcacha

Smith?

A.

Yes, sir.

He was the leader of the Cuban

Revolutionary Front..

Do you know whether he has any connection

with

the assassination of President Kennedy?

A.

I can't answer that question but he was very

close to Warren C. de Brueys. He was very close to David

Ferrie.

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Did you know David Ferrie?

A.

Yes, sir. He teach me how to fly Cessnas.

When did he teach you how to fly?

A.

I can't remember exactly but if you go to the

Lake Front Airport and ask for my log which if you need me

to sign it, I will sign it and tell them to release it to

you anytime you want it, to give you my log that was signed

there. Every time I went there with David William Ferrie

to fly, he signed the 10g. Those papers have to be there.

somewhere. You have my permission to get it and you will

know exactly the day I started taking lessons and every day

I fly Cessnas.

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Do you know whether Sergio Arcacha Smith or

David Ferrie knew Lee Harvey Oswald?

A.

I better don't answer

that question. David

William Ferrie is dead already. It is no use to be talking

about a man that is dead

now.

Mr. Pena, the House Select Committee on

Assassinations has a mandate to investigate the circumstances

surrounding the assassination of President Kennedy and I

would appreciate knowing any information which you have

concerning any relationships between Sergio Arcacha

Smith

and David Ferrie with lee Harvey Oswald, of any other

knowledge you may have concerning Lee Harvey Oswald.

Let me repeat the question: Do you know whether

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Sergio Arcacha Smith or David Ferrie knew Lee Harvey Oswald?

A.

I will not answer that question. I knew

David William Ferrie and Sergio Arcacha Smith was very, very

close.

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Were either of them close with Lee harvey

Oswald?

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A.

I will not answer that question.

Will you give a reason why you refuse to

answer these types of questions?

A.

We have the same trouble I have with Bringier.

Arcacha Smith will come around and start suing me. Since

1963 I have spent over $20,000.00 in attorneys' fees.

David Ferrie is no longer alive. Did he have

any relationship with Lee Harvey Oswald?

A.

I want to tell you one thing and put that

there.

The day about twelve hours before David william

Ferrie died, he came to my place of business at the Habana

st.

Bar at 117 Decatur and he was very nervous and he asked me

that it is very important, extremely important that he see

two persons. One of the persons was Sergio. Arcacha Smith.

And to prove this, I am going to use Carlos Bringier.

I told him what I hear that Sergio Arcacha Smith

went to Texas.

At that time, Carlos Bringier went by on

the street on Decatur to his place of business and I told

him, "look, why don't you go and ask Mr. Bringier? He might

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know about the whereabouts of Mr. Sergio Arcacha Smith."

While he

went to talk to Mr. Bringier,.I

called: the DA, Mr. Jim Garrison, and I talked to Mr. Frank

Maloche, one of the DA Assistants at that time during the

Jim Garrision era.

He was a policeman too in the First District.

So Frank Maloche said, "Do you know the two

persons he wants to know?"

And I said, "Yes, I know the

two persons. One of them is Mr. Sergio Arcacha Smith."

I hang the phone up. Mr. Ferrie came back to me again and

said, "Do you know what Mr. Bringier said? Mr. Bringier

said he don't know anything about the two persons I want to

know." He said, "It is very, very important that I know about

these two persons." I said, "I don't know". because I did

not want to involve myself.

MI. David pilliam Ferrie left my place of

PM.

business about 2:00. I believe about twelve hours later he

was pronounced dead. See if that is true or not true.

0.

Did you know Clay Shaw?

À.

Yes, sir.

Did he have any relationship with Lee Harvey

Oswald?

The only thing I'm going to say about Mr.

Shaw, he has been in my place of business. He was in my

place of business and that is it, nothing else.

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Clay Shaw is no longer alive. Can you tell

us anything more about any relationship he might have with

Lee Harvey Oswald?

A.

• He was in my place of business.

That is all.

He used to work at the International Trade Mart, some kind

of position there.

Do you know Guy Bannister?

A.

I believe

With Of

SO.

I believe I was assigned by

Sergio Arcacha smith; three of four people, three of four

Cubans was assigned to go and see Mr. Bannister about trying

to. collect money for the Revolution of Cuba. I was one of

the men assigned to go and talk to MI. Bannister.

Did Guy Bannister have any relationship

with Lee Harvey

Oswald?

A.

I can't say that.

Did you every see Guy Bannister talking with

Lee Harvey Oswald?

No, I can't say that.

Can you give a reason why you refuse to answer

these questions?

A.

I can't

say that. But I can

tell you that

Bannister and Mr. Sergio Arcacha Smith was very close.

Was

Bannister close with either MI. David

Ferrie or Clay Shaw?

I can't say.

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• Can you give a reason why you refuse to

answer that question?

Ao

Those people are dead already.

Is your reason for not answering the questions

the fact these people are dead?

A.

Yes.

Do you know or did you know William Gaudet?

A.

I don't know by the name. Maybe if I see a

picture of him or something. But William Gaudet sounds

familiar but I don't know exactly. I can't answer that

question one way of the other. I might know him or I might not.

Can you tell me whether any of these people

whom we have been discussing had any connections with the

Kennedy assassination or had any relationship with Lee

Harvey Oswald?

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I would say yes.

Would you care to elaborate?

No, I don't.

Would you care to give a reason for refusing

to elaborate?

A.

If you bring the Cuban Camp in New Orleans

and subpoena Mr. Warren C. de Brueys, I will offer myself

to take a lie test if Mr. de Brueys takes one, if MI. Hector

Garcia, the one accusing takes one.. You be the judge.

You

be the judge who is telling the truth, who is right and who is

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wong: Bring Mr. Sergio Arcacha Smith too. See how well

he knew all of those people including Warren C. de Brueys.

How many times he met in private in his office with Warren

C. de Brueys, Mr. Arcacha Smith and de Brueys.

without getting into the

issue of polygraph

examinations, do you have any other information which you

feel would be helpful in the investigation of the

assassination of President Kennedy?

A.

Well, as I told you, everything came out of

the: Cuban training in New Orleans.

Would you care to elaborate on the Cuban

Training Camp in New Orleans?

Ao.

No, I don't. I can tell you how many have

been dead already, been killed already.

Mr. Pena, at this time I would like to give

you an opportunity to use five minutes to elaborate on any

of your previous answers or to amend any of your previous

answers or to discuss any

issue that you have not previously

discussed but which you feel are important and should be

discussed.

OP

A.

p-Ast-you this.

Let me put it this way, if I accuse somebody,

that person can sue me through this paper?

Q.

Mr. Pena, I would like to repeat that this

deposition is voluntary on your part and I would again like

to ask you if you have anything further to add?

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A.

Not right now.

0.

He would appreciate in the future if you have

any

other information on any of these issues, if you would

contact us and provide us with this information.

I have no further questions. Do you have

anything further to say?

Ao

Yes. In the future if you find out about

these people I told you about here and the truth of all this

matter, you can call me back again and then I will tell you

a little bit more....

What matters are you specifically referring to?

Everything we have been talking in this

A.

deposition.

If you have nothing further to add, I would

like to thank you very much for taking your time to give

this voluntary statement and, again, I would like to ask you

to feel free to provide any further information in the future.

Ao.

Okay •

(Whereupon, the deposition was concluded at 4:50 p.m.)!

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I, Joyce Kay Schaefer, a Notary Public in and

for Harris County, Texas, being the Notary Public before

whom: the sworn testimony of OREST PENA was

taken, do hereby

certify that the witness was first auly sworn by Magistrate

Ingard O. Johannesen, Magistrate for the Eastern District

of Louisiana, to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing

but the truth, and that the above and foregoing is a true

and correct transcript of said testimony.

Given under my hand and seal of office on

this

the

29

day of June, 1978.

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Acharter

in and for Harris County,

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Select Committee on Assassinations

M.S. House of Representatines

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20515

010136

The undersigned, having had an opportunity to

review the foregoing transcript, hereby acknowledges that

the stenographic record is a true,

accurate and complete

recordation of the sworn testimony I provided.

Ches tena

Orest Pena

Date: July 20-1978

City and state: New Orleans, 2a.

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