MEMO: TEPEDINO, CARLOS
Originator: CIA
From: INTERROGATION RESEARCH DIVISION
To: WH/C/FI
Document date: 09/22/1965
Document type: PAPER - TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

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• 2022 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992

RETURN TO GIA

Background Use Only

Do Nos Reprodicy..

TO

: 1611/C/F1

FROM : Interrugation Research Division

SUBJECT : ZEPEDINO, Carlos

S. F. #211900

¿2 September 1965

IRD F69405

IENTIFYING DATA

Subject is a forty year uld married male who is a citizen of Cuba.

He has been cooperatiug with the Agency since about 1959, without receiv-

ing salary and being paid only expenses incurred in operational assigaments.

Subject has been residing in the United States since March 1961. Subject is

being utilized in a covert capacity as an Fl asset. Subject'a file number is

201-211900.

PROCEDURE

03

Subject was given a polygraph interview at the request ofHarry WEBSTER,)

case officer, WH/C/FI. The interview was held at a covert site in Washington,

D. C. on 27 August 1965. The interview was conducted in the English lang-

uage, in which Subject appeary to have limited and seemingly adequate pro-

ficiency. Subject sometimes expressed difficulty in understanding certain

words or phraseology in revicwing test questions, but generally stated that

he understood definitions and meanings for testing purposes.

Throughout

testing, Subject clained that he understood the test questions; during a

discussion at the end of the interview, Subject stated that he found himself

during tests translating the interrogator's questions into Spanish for himself

and then proviring his answers, ever though he had heard the questions before -

testing and had arrived at a judgment on them.

PURPOSE

It was requested by the case officer that polygraph testing attempt to

determine the following: (I) Any connection with another intelligence service,

especially Cuban; (2) Whether Subject has told the truth about the nature of

his relationship with Rolando CUBELA and has been reporting the truth to us

¿bout CUBELA and CUBELA's activities; (3) Whether Subject has told the

truth about his relationship with CARRILLO, Cuban Ambassador in Paris.

In addition, it was requested that testing include the specific issues requested

for coverage in an attachment io a contact report dated 28 June 1965. These

issues include Subject's true name, Communist connections, intelligence or

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security connections, relationships with CUBELA and CARRILLO, report

ing of Agency assignments and CUBELA activities, smuggliug or illegal

áctivities in the United States or Europe, disclosure of ClA connection to

any intelligence service or to the Castro Govurtment. It was suggested

that the smuggling issue not be included or stresged during current testing,

and that it should be pressed if there was any indication that Subject might

be vulnerable to blackmail or might be using his CLA connection primarily

to protect or irvance his own business purposes. The issue was not entered

into during testing. It was agreed that mercly an emotional question using

the word "smuggling" be inserted to draw out Subject's comments or work

•as an indicator or later a wedge into any illegal activities or exploitation

of CIA on the part of the Subject. Il is noted that such a question was

reserved until the very last test administered to the Subject so that there

would be no risk of emotionally disturbing the Subject prematurely or

clouding the relevant intelligence issues.

CONCLUSION

From à technical analysis, Subject's charts «xhibit a combination

of nervous tension, erratic patterns, reactions, and inconsistencies through-

out three separate phases of testing. The charts also show a marked increase

in emotional disturbance and tension and progressively worse reactions as

testing advanced.

From the standpoint of Subject's tension and sensitivity,

it is possible that Subject is practicing deception during testing and that his

unusual test performance is the result of attempts to withhold pertinent

information in one or more relevant areas. Overall testing could not

conclusively pinpoini the reactions on all questions pertient as deception

reactions, and Subject's reactions are unresolved at this point.

certain other factors which may have influenced testing, it is necessary to term

this case inconclusive and incomplete. To resolve the factors, it is recom-

mended thut Subject be re-interviewed at a later date and that the interview

be conducted in the Spanish language.

It is believed that only testing in

Spanish can conclusively confirm or eliminate any indications and significant

In the meantime, Subject's

:.

Spanish can be administered.

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The factors present during this interview that might have affected

technical testing are as follows:

(1) Subject claimed to be sick, to have been feeling ill since the pre-

vious evening and to have debated with himself whether to fly to

Washington for the interview that same morning;

(2) Subject claimed to be "in a hurry because of "business problems"

and stipulated that the interview should not take too long so that

he could catch an early plane back to New York;

(3)

Subject has a rather limited command of the English language and

there are indications that a language problem may have been en-

countered during testing

On the basis of these factors, Subject has been temporarily given the

bunefit of the doubt in testing, but by no means has been given a clean bill

of health on the basis of current test performance; inasmuch as the case is

considered incomplete, arrangements should be made for a jollow-up poly-

graph interview in the Spinish laaguage at a later date.

DETAILS

1. Specifically, Subject did not reflect consistent reactions on the

general question of working for another intelligence service, but he did reflect

reactions on specific questions of having a secret connection with the Castro

Government, telling another intelligence service about his counection with us,

having a secret connection with any Cuban Intelligence or security organization,

reporting information about American Intelligence activities or representatives

to anyone unknown to us, giving lalse or misteading information to any American

Intelligence representative, and being approached to work for another intelligence

service.

Subject further reflected extreme emotional disturbances on many quest-

ions regarding his relationship with CUBELA and his knowledge of CUBELA's

actship or CAlmet. He also reacted on questions dealing with his relate

On questions that used the words such as "hiding," "concealing" (inform-

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atior: iron us), "delibe mily herp socrut from us", "suurity" incidenty

breaches,

"ackma'", "pressure" (uy in isiciligence service), sub-

jesi protessed ignurinee c. the terms ard alicropts i definition and clari-

tinatius: di the seaning d questlus using these nords socined to fail.

2a During lie pre-test discussion, Subjert was asked the question,

"Have you luld de, ine abuut your conncchioz will. Ameri an Intelligence?"

Subicet replierias. ing his houd, that he defnitcly lad, that le has told

"maxy mauy pec,ul." A red to rigntily these people, Sibject sated that it

would be almos. impossible, because so many sew in New York, in Cubi,

in Europe, ulc.

it was puiated out to the Subject thut the question referred to

American latelligener and not lo Americad Guernme:.

Subject stated that

he undersiood completcly. Subjal vas asked to make an effort to enumerate

suile of the peuple whom he had told abour his w'elligeuce connection, even

tough he mig!: tind it dificult to do. Subject then stated that he had told

his wife, his father, and other rol ilives abou: his cranection with us. He

said that his uffice umplujces in New York also irew about his connection.

He furiher stated that others knew, like Ricardo MDAN and Ricardo KIVAN.

He said that in Cale there

•ere many propie who kres, like Rolando CUBELA,

EL LOCO, El MiGO, Robeño (RolEño?), and diurs. He said tiat it was ao.

secret that he had tulel his f-ondo about nis connection, and that many others

simoly knew about his intelli, ence connurtion. Subject was asked whether

there was anyone he hid told who should rot kros about his connection or whom

he lad nut reported to us; especially individuals with intelligence backgrounds.

Subject said that he assumed that Cuban Wlelligence may have found out.or

guessed about his relationship with us, but thei he had not told them himself.

He ilso stated that he fell that the people ht had told were known to us. The

pertinent question was changed accordingly to, "Have you told anyone we do

aci know about about your connection with American Intelligence?" Subject

stated that he juld answer in the negative on the question in this form. During

testing, Subjoci riflected reactions on the question. (Writer's Commeat: It

is obvious thet..e qualified question is vague ana tecinically unansverable, but

in light of Subject's stalements i need is indicited for the debriefing of the Suu:

jeet on all pcople he has told about his intelligence connection.

Subject agreed

to provide names und deiails to the case officer iater in a more lengtny meeting.)

3. During later tests which included specific questions on whether Subject

had told any intelligence service, the Casiro Government, or CARILLO about

his connertion with us, Subject also reflecied strong reactions on these questions

and wis interrogated. Subject donied huring rcredled his connecion to any of

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these sources.

4. Subject was interrogated on lie basis of pronounced reactions on

the question, "Have you ever deliberasily reported false or misleading in-

formation to any Aerican Intelligence representative?" Subject stated that

he had never reported false or misleading information on any assignment or

task, including his missions to Mexico and Switzerland, and concerning his

5. Subject stated that he had not been approached to work for any other

intelligence service besides American, despite reactions on this question.

6. Regarding his name, Subject stated that he has used the name Carlo

TEPEDINO Gonzalez since 1946. Before 1946, he used the name Carlos LOPEZ

his true name from birth.

During testing, there were no rcactions to questions

covering these two facts, but there were reactions on the question, "Have you

ever used another name to hide your true identity?" Answer: "No." Subject

stated that he had never used any name io hide his true identity and that he

understood the meaning of the question to refer to any secret or intelligence

use of another name that was unknown to us.

7. Subject reacted prominently on various questions dealing with CUBELA.

During the pre-test discussion, the interrogator had asked the Subject the follow-

ing question:. Does CUBELA have a plan to overthrow Castro? Subject replied

that there is no plan that he knows of, and he does not consider CUBELA's various

activities as constituting a plan for such an objective. Asked how he might des-

cribe CUBELA's attitude toward Castro, Subject said that CUBELA was opposed

to the Castro government and that Subject felt that CUBELA had a "desire" to

overthrow Castro, rather than any plan.

When Subject was asked whether he

considered CUBELA's group to be a genuine anti-Castro and anti-Communist

group, Subject replied that CUBELA did not have a group and that he knew of no

group he ever had. Asked how he would describe any individials who supported.

CUBELA as friends, or promised him support in any undertaking, or who might

be counted on for support if he were ever to follow through with his "desire" to

overthrow Castro, Subject shrugged ard said he did not know what to call them,

that he did not think CUBELA had any control over all his friends or supporters,

that he did not even think they would all help CUBELA in any crisis or that CUBELA

could depend on any of them in any uncertaking. He said that a group as such was

no.-exisient and that he could not even regard CUBELA's following as a group of

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friends, an organization of any kind, a social circle, a band oi sympath-

izers, etc. Subject ulso stated that he had complete confidence in CUBELA

and would trust him in whatever he did.

During testing, Subjict reacted on the question regarding CUBELA's

desire to overthrow

Castro. Subject stated during interrogation that he had

nu doubt at all regarding CUBELA's desire to overthrow Castro and he could

not understand the reason for his reaction on such a question. Subject re-

pested that he had complete confidence in CUBELA.

Subject was also interrogated on his reactions on the question, "Do you

believe that CUBELA is anti-Castro and anti-Communist?" Answer: "Yes."

Subject said that in his opinion, CUBELA was against the, Castro government,

but that he felt that CUBELA admired Castro.

He said that in spite of CUBELA'S

strong admiration for Castro, CUBELA was still opposed to him and to his

mcthods.

8. During discussion of questions before testing, Subjeet was asked

the question, "Does CUBELA have any connection with Cuban Intelligence

or Cuban Sccurity?" Subject réplied, "Yes." Asked to explain, Subject stated

that CUBELA definitely had an "inside track" with Cuban intelligence and sec-

urity clements, knew quite a few intelligence people, worked with them closely,

had daily contacts with them, knew what was going on in intelligence circles,

etc. Subject was asked whether he meant that CUBELA was working for or

cooperating with Cuban Intelligence or Security clements. Subject replied that

CUBELA, of course, had strong connections with Cuban Intelligence and was

probably cooperating with them in various ways. Subject added that he had

to in order to gain their confidence and to be able to know what Cuban Intelli-

gence was doing.

He also added that even though he had these connections,

he was still opposed to the Castro Government and would probably take an

opportunity to work against it. Subject said that CUBELA would not be able

to exist in Cuba is he dous today if he did not have the confidence of the Castro

Government and intelligence services. Subject was asked how he knew so well

about CUBELA's connections with Cuban Intelligence; Subject replied that CUB-

CLA had told'everyone and had told me' and "everyone knew about CUBELA'a

contacts with Cuban Intelligence. "

Subject was advised that the question would not be asked as proposed,

and was asked what his answer would be to the following question, "Is CUBELA

SECHET

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an agent vi Cuban Intelligence or Cubün Security?" Suuject said that he would

auswer, "No." During testing, Subject reflecied reactions, on the question.

9. Subject suflected reactions during tests on sie question, "Hive you

tuld us the complete truth about your relationship with CUBELA?" and "Have

you deliberately attempted to hide or keeep secret from us any information

about Rolando CUBELA?" Subject did not show reactions on the question,

"Hiere you told us the complete truth about your relationship with CARRILLO?",

but he did show reactions on the question, "Have you told CARRILLO about

your connection with American Intelligence?" Answer: "No." Subject was

interrogated on the basis of the reactions, but furnished no pertinent inform-

ation. Subject insisted that he had not told CARRILLO about his connection

with us, and that he had told us cverytning about his relationship with CUBELA.

Subject stated that he considered CUBEll his friend, but he could not classify

CARRILLO as a friend. Subject was asked whether CARRILLO was friendly.to the

Subject and whether they were both on amicable terms, and Subject replied

that these statements were true.

10. In a final test, the following questions were asked;

Hare you ever reported information about American Intelligence activi-

ties or representatives to anyone you lave not told is about? No.

Have you tuld any intelligence service about your connection with us?

No.

Have you told the Castro Governmunt about your connection with us?

No.

Do you have any secret connection with the Castro Government? No.

Do you have any secret connection with any Cuban Intelligence or

Security organization? No.

Do you have any secret agreement with CUBELt that you have not told

us about? No.

Hare you ever engaged in smuggling activities iur any government or

¡telligence service?

Didany intelligence service instruct you to work or cooperate with

SEC23T

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American Intelligence? No.

Is there anything important in your background that you have not told

us about that could be used against you for blackmail or pressure by another

government or intelligence service? No.

Are you an agent of the Castro Government? No.

Docs CUBELA have contacts with Cuban Intelligence? Yes.

Is CUBELA an agent of Cuban Intelligence? No..

Have you told us the complite truth about your relationship with CUBELA?

Yes.

Have you ever been asked to work for any intelligence service besides us?

No,

Have you ever worked for or coopcrated with any intelligence service

besides American? No.

During two final tests including these questions, Subject reacted pro-

minently but inconsistently on most questions, and exhibited overall emotional

disturbance throughout the tests. An additional question which had been in-

cluded, "Is there a CUBELA group?" was not answered by the Subject during

testing Before testing Subject had stated that he understood the question and

had agreed to answer No to the question according to discussions on the topic.

Later, Subject explained that he could not answer the question. The question

was followed up by, "Does CUBELA have many friends who support him against

Castro?" on which Subject answered Yes, according to agreement.

Regarding

he smuggling question, Subject appeared quite concerned and asked for an explanatio

f the question three times, whereupon he indicated that he understood the quest-.

ion perfectly. There was only a slight disturbarce on the question during test-

ing which did not appear significant to the interrogator. Subject was not interr-

ogated on this question or asked any questions about smuggling.

11. During various post-icst discussion periods, Subject was asked whether

he undersiood the questiong asked or whuther he had experienced any difficulties

in compreningion during testing. Subject generally relorted that he understood

the questions and knew just what they meant; in addition, Subject would sometimes

-"an

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put the questions into his own oversimplified expressions to indicate that he

understood the meanings. Questions on which Subject expressed difficulty

in comprehending were explained and re-phrased prior to testing. During later

discussions, Subject stated that he found himsetta

mentally changing the questions asked into Spanish and then answering them.

even though he was aware of the question and his answet prior to testing.

There did not seem to be an obvious language difficulty during test preparation

with the Subject, however, Subject's command of English can not be rated as.

fluent or even proficient.

It is also possible that Subject might have been

altempting to do more than his language abrity permitted or failing to recog-

"nze a truflanguage or semantics problem in the test procedure.

DEANE GEORGE-ADIS

Hey lin'

03

Distribution:

Orig Klipa, Coleman, Gaynor

1 - Coleman

1 - CI/OA

1 - WH/C

1 - File

OS/IRD/DGA:dcr

BENECT

yps

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