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178-10002-10215

2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992|

JFK Assassination System

8/31/201

Identification Form

Agency Information

AGENCY :

RECORD NUMBER:

ROCKCOM

178-10002-10215

RECORD SERIES :

ASSASSINATION FILES

AGENCY FILE NUMBER: DEPOSITION OF (A CIA EMPLOYEE)

Document Information

ROCKEFELLER COMMISSION

ORIGINATOR :

FROM:

TO :

TITLE:

DATE:

PAGES:

SUBJECTS :

04/16/1975

8

ANTI-CASTRO ACTIVITIES

CIA

CLANDESTINE OPERATIONS

CUBAN EXILES

FITZGERALD, DESMOND

STURGIS, FRANK

HUNT, E. HOWARD

KENNEDY, ROBERT F.

ORGANIZED CRIME

ROSELLI, JOHNNY

STURBITTS, WILLIAM

GIANCANA, SAM

DOCUMENT TYPE: DEPOSITION

CLASSIFICATION: Secret

RESTRICTIONS: 1A; 1B; IC

CURRENT STATUS:

Redact

DATE OF LAST REVIEW:

02/13/2001

OPENING CRITERIA:

COMMENTS:

Selected pages from deposition. Full document is number 1781000210091.

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Deposition of

William C. Sturbitts

Examination by Counsel

For the Commission

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WARD & PAUL

410 First Sorcel, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

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(AFTERNOON SESSION Page 58)

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William C. Sturbitts (Resumed)

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PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION

ON CIA ACTIVITIES

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Langley, Virginia

Wednesday, April 16, 1975

Deposition of WILLIAM C. STURBITTS, called for

examination by Counsel for the Commission on CIA Activities,

the witness being duly sworn by Thomas C: Hogan, a Notary

Public in and for the State of Virginia, in the offices of the

Central Intelligence Agency, Langley, Virginia, at 9:50

o'clock a.m., on Wednesday, April 16, 1975, the proceedings

being taken down in stenotype by Ruth G. McClenning, and

transcribed under her direction.'

APPEARANCES:

On behalf of the Commission:

GEORGE MANEREDI, ESQ-,

ROBERT B. OLSEN, ESQ.

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PEOCEEDINGS

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Thereupon,

WILLIAM C. STURBITIS,

called as a witness by Counsel for the Commission on CIA

Activities, and having been first duly sworn by the Notary

Public, was examined and testified as follows:

EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION

BY MR. MANFREDI:

Mr. Sturbitts, will you state your full name for the

record?

A

William C. Sturbitts.

MI. Sturbitts, do you recall when we spoke some

weeks ago you signed a document entitled, "Advice and

Waiver"?

Right.

2

You understand that document is still in effect?

A

Sure.

Mr. Sturbitts, by whom are you currently employed?

You mean the Agency of --

A

That is

right.

Central Intelligence Agency.

And what is your current position with the Agency?

A

'I am a Special Assistant, Latin America, for

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Economic Intelligence Collection and Operations.

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"And would you briefly review for me the history of

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your employment with the Agency?

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When I first came in

. I was in the Intelligence

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Directorate for approximately ten years and I was put on special

detail, special indefinite detail, in the Deputy Director, Plans,

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which is now the Directorate of Operations.

What year were you put on that detail?

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I guess it was 1964, January, I believe.

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And what did that detail involve?

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Cuban operations, economic warfare.

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And how long were you on that detail?

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I was in the Cuban operations for nine years.

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Between 1964 and 1973?

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(Nods in affirmative.)

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And in 1973 did you assume your current position?

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Yes, January.

Now, while you were on special detail - to the DOD?

A

Yes.

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Were you stationed in Washington?

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410 8 ne1 51r061, 5.E., Wasnglon, D.C:. 20003

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Yes.

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And did you commute with some frequency to Miami?

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Yes.

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Were your activities in Miami in any way connected

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with the operations of the Miami Station?

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In some way. My responsibilities were worldwide.

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I took temporary duty predominantly in Europe, and then Miami.

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Most of my operations were run out of Europe.

Run out of --

Europe. Some were run out of Miami but the big ones

were run out of Europe.

well, in the course of your activities with respect

to Cuba did you have occasion to become familiar with the

operations of the Miami base?

Yes.

And the situation in the Cuban community in Miami?

A

2

Yes, sir.

During the nine years you were with DDO's. Cuban

operations, who was -- who were the chiefs of the Miami

Station?

I think in 1963 Ted Shackley was the Chief and he

was followed by -- I can't think of his name. I should know

it. Well, I will come back to that.

Then, the next Chief of Station was Paul Henze.

What years was he Chief?

I think Paul was there about a year and a half.

He

left in 1968 when we reduced the size of the Station. Let's

say Henze was there from 1966 to 1968. And then Jake Esterline.

He was Chief of Station from 1968 to 1973.

Now, what was the formal title of the group to which

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you were assigned for the 9-year period?

A

well, when I first came in it was' known as the

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Special Activities Staff. It was headed by Desmond Fitzgerald.

And then, I believe after that it became the Cuban Operations

Group.

Now, was this a special group within the DDO or was

it attached to one of the area divisions?

A

No.

Following the Bay of Pigs, they created a thing

called Task Force W which was headed by Bill Harvey. And

that -- when Harvey left, he went to chief of Station, Rome.

and Fitzgerald took over; it became Special Activities Staff.

It wasn't attached to anything except -- it reported to the

Deputy Director, Plans.

And that was

Mr. Karamessines?

Yes.

Well, it was Helms at that time back when it

was

first created. Heims was DDP at that time.

And Task Force W was created immediately after the

Bay of Pigs? •

Well, not immediately. I think sometime around --

in the Bay of Pigs was in April. I think this was created in

September, something like that, 1961.

And that subsequently became the Special Activities

Staff?

A

Special Activities Staff and consequently became the

Cuban Operations Group. As the Cuban Operations Group it went

back into the Western Hemisphere Division.

And what was

the date of that reorganization?

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well, let's see. I would say that was probably around

1965 because Fitzgerald then became Chief, W.H., and then

later DDP.

Q

Now, Mr. Harvey - do you recall what position Mr.

Harvey held after he left Task Force W?

A

Yes. He was Chief of Station, Rome.

And is he still with the Agency?

Oh, no. He retired a long time ago.

Do you know where he lives at the present time?

Frankly, I don't. I have an idea where he lives.

He went to work for a friend of mine who had a law firm.

Harvey is a lawyer.

Indianapolis area?

Yes, some place around there. It is in the midwest,

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What was the role that was assigned to Task Force

It was the overall Cuban operations.

Did the Miami -- when was the Miami Station estab-

lished?

A

well, I think they had a forward operatio-s base down!

there about 1960 which was small, in Coral Gables.

This was, then, prior to the Bay of Pigs?

Oh, yes.

Now, in addition to Task Force W, was the Miami

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Station running any operations against Cuba?

You mean prior to the Bay of Pigs?

Yes.

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I really don't know.

It was a small -- it was a

forward base and it was more of less as I recall, a support type

thing.

Well, after the Bay of Pigs when Task Force W was

established, did it have sole responsibility for Cuban

operations?

Yes.

Or was that shared with the Miami base, Miami

Station?

No. The Miami Station was under Task Force w.

All right.

would that also be true of the Special

Activities Staff, the Cuban Operations Group?

A

Right, except that at the present time the Station

has no Cuban operations.

I understand that. When were Cuban operations termi-

nated?

NH 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 9

At the Station? Let's see. Sternfield went down

there in 1972. It was during fiscal year '72. I think it was

in early 1973. It was a gradual reduction.

And have those operations been terminated entirely

or are they now run out of the Washington area?

A

All Cuban operations are run out of Washington.

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There are no more paramilitary operations, that type of thing.

But there are some Cuban operations being run out of

the Washington area?

A

Right.

Is that correct?

A

Right. Worldwide.

Mr. Sturbitts, in the last couple of weeks you may

have seen some allegations in the press about possible assassina-

tion attempts that have been mounted of alleged assassination

attempts that have been mounted -

A

Right.

-- against Fidel Castro. In the course of your

activities with respect to Cuba, did you ever learn of any such!

attempts?

well, let me answer it this way. I wouldn't say

"Attempts" is too

attempts. I know there was discussion.

strong a word.

Well, can you place in time your first knowledge of

any such discussions?

A

Well, the first knowledge I had of any discussions,

I was on TDY and this was October, November, 1963, with Fitzgerald

in Paris. And I knew that he was going to meet - let me put

it another way. I had overheard that discussions were going on

with a member of Castro's military but that he wanted, as

I recall, he wanted some british -- I mean Belgian rifles and

-=+.

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Who wanted them?

A

This

military guy that was in Fidel's -- I think

at one time he

was a commandante. Now, I knew that was going

ол.

I didn't participate in it because I was there

for another!

reason. And I know that subsequent to that time that Fitzgerald

met with him again and as

I recall, as the personal representa

tive of the Attorney General, Bobby Kennedy.

I provided all those

files. There are 19 volumes that

we gave to your people. But I don't know who was reviewing

them.. I think Belin was going to do it himself.

Q

Yes. He is. He is doing it himself:

You said there were 19 volumes of documents with

respect to this.

A

19 files, manila.

All having to do with possible assassination?

A

All having to do with this whole time period and -

can we go off the record for a minute?

(Discussion off the record.)

BY MR. MANFREDI:

The first knowledge of such conversations that you

had, I take it you obtained on a trip to Europe with Mr.

Fitzgerald?

I simply overheard it, that is right.

2

And who were the parties to the conversation you overt

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A fellow named Nestor Sanchez.

And Mr. Fitzgerald?

Yes, and I really can't recall some of the other

people. We were - we had just moved the Station at that time,

in Paris, out of the Embassy into the old Rothschild Palace

and we felt that it was probably bugged, so all conversations

took place - we walked around the garden and tyat type of

thing, and, you know,

I was walking with somebody, somebody

was in front of me, and you just overhear conversations.

This was in

Paris?

A

Yes.

I see.

Mr. Sanchez -- was he a member of the military?

A

No. Mr. Sanchez was in the Special Activities Staff.

He was stationed in Washington. And he was in contact with

Cuban military-type.

Was it your understanding that the Agency had received

instructions with respect to this activity from another

component of the Government?

A

Well, let me put it this way. I don't know whether

they received instructions. I have to assume, and I am pretty

positive, that this was a result of a Special Group decision.

And at this time you have to remember that Bobby Kennedy was

overseeing this deal, presumably for his brother, and he was

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part of that Special Group. He called the meetings, he presided,

he did a number of things.

Q

were

there any other occasions that you can recall

in which the possibility of the subject of assassination of

Fidel Castro was

discussed?

No, not really.

You referred to this as the first occasion.

A

This is the first -

Was there a second?

-- the first time I knew about it or even heard it

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discussed.

Well, prior to the investigation that is currently

underway -- I am referring now to our Commission's investigation

-- were there any other occasions in which this subject came

to your attention after this discussion in the garden in

Paris?

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The only other thing that came to my attention was

that the decision was made not to provide him with this sight

that he wanted. Whether that is right of wrong, I don't know,

but that is what I was toid.

When did you learn that?

A

oh, I vould assume in -- must have been early 1964,

around February, something like that.

Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

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MR. MANFREDI: On the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI:

Mr. Sturbitts, are you familiar with a gentleman by

the name of Frank Sturgis?

Indeed.

Is your familiarity based on what you have read in

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particularly the files of the Western Hemisphere Division,

in an attempt to determine whether Mi. Sturgis ever had any

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WAND & PAUL

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the press?

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A

No. It is what is contained in the files.

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Have you caused a search to be made of CIA files,

connection with the Agency?

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I have.

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What were the results of that search?

Absolutely no connection, never has been.

When we talk about connection, are we talking about

i?. an employment relationship?

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That is what I am speaking of.

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Was Mr.Sturgis ever an independent contractor of

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No.

was he ever a contract employee?

A

No.

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Was he ever a regular employee of the Agency?

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No.

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Agency?

A

Not to my knowledge.

Do you know whether of not Mi. Sturgis ever partici-

pated in any type of paramilitary or other operation against

Cuba?

A

On his own behalf he did, not on behalf of this

Agency.

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How did you learn of those operations?

A

Through the newspaper. And through FBI reports.

Now, are these recent FBI reports?

A

Oh, no. These go back -- I know at one time, the

thing that comes to mind, I think he made a

leaflet drop

over Cuba and this was subsequently reported in the press and

by the Bureau oifice in Miami.

Do you know who financed his activities?

A

I have no idea.

Is it possible that Mr. Sturgis' activities were

indirectly financed by the Agency through -

A

I don't see how. Frank Sturgis is a soldier of

fortune: has been. He has constantly tried to associate himself

with the Agency. When I went through his file they wanted me

to classify the file and the way I classified it was "don't

destroy it, he is an intelligence nuisance."

Off the record.

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(Discussion off the record.)

MR. MANFREDI: On the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI :

Have you caused the Agency records with respect to Mel.

Sturgis to be assembled in any one location?

Yes. Ihave custody of them.

And what is the volume of that material?

A

As I recail, there are five volumes. Your committee

called for them the other day after the article in the paper,

I guess it was last Saturday. They called for them Monday and

they returned them Monday afternoon.

Do you know who examined those files?

A

No, I don't.

You indicated

a moment ago that Mr. Sturgis contacts

the DCD office in Miami with some frequency, is that correct?

well, not great frequency but he does with tidbits

of so-called information.

Is this information limited to narcotics, alleged

narcotics traffic?

Recently it has been.

Has Mr. Sturgis been encouraged by the DCD office

in Miami?

A

MI. Sturgis has been told by the DCD office in Miami

to take his information to the Drug Enforcement Agency or the

FBI.

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Do you know whether or not they consider him an

established contact?

A

No manner.

Do they have any -- do they periodically seek to

collect information from MI. Sturgis?

I can't speak to that but the records that we have

don't reflect anything like that. Before they would contact

somebody in that context, knowing that there is a 201 file

on Sturgis, they would have to coordinate with the Latin

American Division before they did anything since we do hold

the file.

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Would you briefly explain what a 201 file is?

A

A 201 file is a personnel file. It consists of any

information relating to an individual appearing in the press

as a result of other agency reporting and that type of thing..

Personnel or personality file?

A

Personality file, I should say. Excuse me.

Do you know whether or not there is any connection

or relationship between Eugenio Martinez and Mr. Sturgis?

A

well, I will say this. Obviously, they do know

each other. They have to know each other from their days

in Cuba.

8 Do you know whether or not Me. Sturgis ever partici-

pated with Martinez in raids against Cuba?

No. As I recall, ve employed Martinez around 1961,

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I guess, and he was in our maritime activities. He was a

boat captain eventually. And he did participate in infiltrations

and exfiltrations and perhaps one or two raids, hit and run,

sabotage-type actions against Cuba. Sturgis never engaged in

any of these things. He never did it for us nor did he ever

do it on any of our boats, planes, of - anything that belongs

to the Agency.

When artinez would run such an operation or captain

a boat on such an operation, would he be charged with putting

together his own crew?

A

No. He had

an assigned crew and every boat had a

Case Officer operating either out of the - probably out of

the Miami Station. Sometimes I would assume that we did have

some people in the Key west base. But he, Martinez, would receive

his instructions and briefings from his Case Officer.

2

So it is likely that he could have brought Sturgis

along on any of these operations?

Absolutely unlikely. Oh, the guy whose name I was.

trying to think oi, Chief of Station, John Dimmer.

And that would be. for a period of time between

Shackley and Henze?

Yes.

1964 to 1966?

Something like that.

would you describe briefly for me the nature of the

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activities conducted by the Special Activities Staff during

your - and subsequently the Cuban Operations Group during

your

g-year

tenure with those groups.

Well, there was - it was an across-the-board

intelligence operation consisting of collection of foreign

positive intelligence,

counterintelligence, paramilitary

activities, covert action,

economic activities.

That is about

the breadth of the thing.

Now, these were all conducted through the DDO?

Right.

Now, let's speak for a moment about the paramilitary

operations.

Were these operations run out of southern

Florida?

Right.

2

And in particular out of the Miami Station?

A

Yes.

Were there any other CIA facilities in that area of

the country that participated in these activities?

A

Yot to my knowledge..

Were there any southern harbors other than Miami

that were used in these activities?

well, we had activities down in the keys also. As

I said, we did have a Key west base.

were there any other bases in that area of the

country that vere utilized in these operations?

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well, not that I would cail a base. We did have

training facilities for the UDT teans.

What is a UDT team?

Underwater demolition.

here were those bases located?

I frankly don't know. They were down along the keys,

along that long peninsula going down there. There were a

number of sites. I reaily can't recall them.

2

Were there any other sites within the United States

in which paramilitary training was conducted, for people

participating in these

activities?

A

Not to my knowledge.

Where were these people trained?

A

What do you mean?

A

well, Cubans who participated in these activities.

We trained them at these places we had in the Keys.

Now, there also -- some of them were brought up here and trained

at the Domestic Training Station.

Where is that located?

That is down in Virginia.

Were any CIA personnel actually involved in these

2

raids?

A

Occasionally, I would think that - you have got to

understand at this time that we hac a great many contract

employees, independent contractors and this type of thing.

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Most of the paramilitary operations and the training was

conducted by the Special Operations Group which is another

entity of the -

DDO?

A

DDO.

Now, the facilities that we have been talking about,

training facilities, were manned, then, by the Special

Operations Group, or at least supervised by the Special

Operations. Group, is that correct?

well, supervised, yes, and I would think that probably

some of the training was given by their people. The Domestic

Training Station is under the Office of Training and -- but I

would think that in the paramilitary field that the SOG would

probably staif the training facility with their people who have

the expertise in paramilitary operations.

Now, were the people that were being trained at

these facilities basically Cuban refugees?

Yes.

And at the outset i take it not many of those people

were American citizens?

No.

2

Or had become American citizens.

A

I would assume a great many have.

By this time.

By this time, yes.

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Plane (Area 202) 244-6000

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At the present time, how large is that Cuban community

in Miami? Do you have any idea?

well, it is extremely large.

I would think it is

probably - I was trying to think. I would say up towaras a

miiitary people.

You spoke about paramilitary operations and covert

action. How do you distinguish between those two categories

of activities?

Well, actually one can fall into the other. The

paramilitary could fall into covert action but in those days

we did distinguish somewhat. A lot of the covert action was

media placement. We had a number of operations at -- legal-

type operations, harassment operations. For instance, Fidel

seized a great many art treasures and in particular he had a

Napoleonic collection which was supposed to be the finest in

the world that he sold to dealers in Europe. He had paintings

.."

that were immensely valuable that he tried. to have auctioned

in London and the London auctioneer would not accept them

because he obviously didn't have clear title to them. He was

-- they were stolen, in the eyes of the auctioneer. He was

forced to auction them in Toronto, Canada.

→'÷•

We ran legal operations, got the owners and had them

hire attorneys and bring them to court and this type of thing.

He seized these race horses. He tried to peddle them

in Europe and up in Canada. We ran opposition against that

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type of thing.

These were what you considered to be covert operations?

A

Yes,

covert action.

2

Now, this is what you were referring to, legal-

type

operations?

A

Yes.

You used legal process to harass Castro.

Yes.

What other types of harassment activities did you

run that would fall under this covert action category?

A

Well -

Would economic warfare be-

That was sort of something separate unto itself.

This was - the economic warfare aspect of this thing was a

decision of the Special Group to enjorce an economic blockade.

that special group is that?

It is now called the Forty Committee.

Is that 302 Committee?

Well, it was a 302 at one time, too. First of all,

it was called the Special Group, CI, Counterinsurgency. Then

it went to the 302 and then it had another name in between

there and now it is the Forty Committee.

All right.

We will return to that a little bit

later, but what other types of harassment were you running

against Castro --

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344.0000

202)

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This is what

I was trying to think of.

Phone

VIANTAL FAIL

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- that would be considered covert action?

A

Well,

as I say, a lot of propaganda, press placement,

media placement.

It has been so long ago I really don't

remember. I know we had a number of things going against him.

We used

suasion, moral suasion, otherwise. We did some

extra-legal things. We tried to get to his sources of supply,

particularly when they were countries that we had treaties

with, NATO countries, Canada, this type of thing.

2

Let's talk about each of those in turn. You said

you used moral suasion. what kind of activities are you

referring to?

A . Well, in the moral suasion field we - actually, ve

were the catalyst in this whole thing and we had the legal

activities, the legal - weil, I don't know how you would

phrase it, but we operated under the Cuban access control

regulations of the Treasury Department, the Trading with the

Enemy Act, and we also used the facilities of the Department of

Commerce, the Export Control people.

I quess as you are aware, Cuban industry was totally

U.S.-oriented. As parts began wearing out and this type of

thing, Castro had his little people there running around trying!

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•to place orders with subsidiaries of U.S. companies. Where

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we would find this out througn all-source intelligence, we

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or the treasury people of the Commerce people would go to the

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WAND INAUL

executives of these American companies and ask them to tell

their foreign

subsidiaries not to provide the spare parts

and the other things that Castro might need. We had the

Department of

Conmerce -- we identified 600 of the

major U.s.

companies that could provide spare parts for Cuban industry.

We had the Department of Commerce send letters to those 600

manufacturers and

ask them to cooperate with them in denying

any spare parts to the Cubans. This was a fairly concentrated

effort to really isolate them.

2

All right. And that is what you were referring to

as moral suasion?

A

Yes.

Anything else in that category?

Not really. None that I can think of.

Did you make the same kind of efforts with foreign

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companies?

A

At one point ve did but it was absolutely useless,

the point in case being the Leyland buses.

we pulled all stops!

to'stop that sale. The British Government turned us down

flat.

Now, did you

attempt to reach any other sources of

supply?

Well, we also had what we call a preemptive purchasing

program. If there was a

single source of supply for a

particular item we would go in and buy it to deny the Cubans

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the market.

would that then be re-sold somewhere on the domestic

A

Yes.

-- domestic market?

No. It would be re-sold abroad.

In all cases?

A

The cases that I was associated with, it was all

sold abroad.

What kind of purchases were made?

Well, we purchased

at one point -- we purchased

some Bright Stock in Antwerp.

What?

A

Bright Stock.

2

What is that?

ileavy, heavy oil, and since Cuba -- 85 percent of

her energy comes from oil, this was considered 'à critical

commodity. Bright Stock can be - oh, it is almost like tar,

melted tar, and it can be cut into additives, lubricants, this

type of thing, and this was critical to the Cuban economy. So

we had an oil firm purchase this Bright Stock from a dealer fori

which we reimbursed the guy and the Bright Stock was eventually

soid in Africa.

Do you know

of any sales of such materials that

were made within the United States?

Resales, I should say.

No.

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In addition to preemptive buying were there any

other actions taken by this group with respect to sources of

supply to Cuba?

A

Well, we did provide through third country agents

who got orders for Cuban goods, in collusion with the Commerce

Department, and I would assume the Special Group, we had

replacement parts manufactured that were substandard.

And you had them sold through foreign companies?

A

Well, we had our agents get the Cuban orders all

over Europe. Then they would come back and, as a matter of fact,

the former Secretary of Commerce, who is on your Committee,

Des.

and I met him and he gave is the go-ahead to do this.

2

Mr. Dillon?

A

No. He was Secretary of the Treasury.

Q

But --

A

But you must remember that these American --

A

Me. Connors?

Yes. But you must remember these American manufacturers,

well, their places were nationalized and they were only too

happy to work with us. And

actually, it was a cash deal, bona

fide business. These things were transshipped through two

or three countries, finally wound up in Havana.

You referred to some extra-legal activities.

Yes.

That is what

i was trying

to think of, what

we did. I just can't think -- I remember this was on one of

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our activities but I just can't think -- I remember this was

on one of our activities but I just can't remember what the

extra-legal was. I just can't remember what it was. I know

it was one of the parts of the program.

This was illegal activities? Is that what you are

referring to?

A

Well, I wouldn't say they were illegal, but they

weren't exactly legal, I don't think. Perhaps they were in a

gray area some place.

Well, whose laws are we talking about, international

law, the laws of the United States?

A :

I would have to go back and review the thing. I

really can't remember this. I would have to go to the files.

Where could we find that kind of thing in the files?

I would think probably down in the Records Center some

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Would it be possible to obtain that material some

time during the lunch hour?

No. It is forty

miles away.

well, is there some place in the building where

you could refresh your memory?

A

Not to my knowledge. All that stuff has been shippedl.

This is talking 11 years ago, 12 years ago. All that material

has been retired.

2

What category of activity would we be talking about

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(Area 202) 544-6000

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when we

refer to

extra-legal activities?

2

A

This is what I was trying to think of and I can't

=

think of what it was.

I know

extra-legal activities was one

parts of the program that we were involved in.

I might have

a chart in my safe downstairs that might!

tell me what that is.

Well, let's

make

note of that and we will have to

come back to that.

All right.

who else would be knowledgeable about extra-legal

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WARD & FAUL

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activities that were run against Castro?

A

well, the people that would be knowledgeable are

probably retired and I was running the program.

So I ran

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the economic program.

Well, these are activities that were run in connection

with the economic program?

A

Yes.

We talked about media placement during this nine-

= year period.. To what are you referring when you refer to

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media placement?

A

well, stories of news items that perhaps our

propaganda people wrote. We had them placed in newspapers

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and magazines throughout the world.

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Would this aiso include broadcasts over radio

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stations?

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Oh, yes. Radio is a very big part of it.

Now, were any of these newspapers or magazines

published within the United States?

Not to my knowledge, no.

These were essentially foreign publications?

Yes.

WAND HAUL

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were any of them published in the Cuban community

in Miami?

A

No. The intent was to get world opinion against

Castro. You don't do that by publishing in the United States.

What about the radio broadcasts?

How were those

handled?

A

Are you speaking of Radio Swan now?

well, I am unfamiliar with how many radio stations

were involved. Was there more than one radio station?

A

No. We only had the one radio station but we did

contract time with Florida stations, a station in New York.

For broadcasts to what areas?

A

For broadcasts to Havana.

2

And the station

in New York, was that received also

-- was that also broadcasting to various areas of the United

States?

A

I have no idea. I don't know whether they used a

particular frequency to get this out or whether they did it

on short-wave of what they did.

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But the intention was to reach Cuba.

Reach Cuba.

You referred to a

station in New York, referred

to

as

Swan.

Were

there others?

There

were

a couple in Miami that I recall. Not in

Miami. I think there was one -- yes, there was one in Miami,

I think, and one down in Key West that they used.

Where was Radio Swan located?

On Swan Island.

2

Where is Swan Island?

A

Swan Island is a little glob around Honduras.

As far as you can recall, were there any other

radio stations in the United States that were utilized to

broadcast propaganda materials toward Cuba?

A

vell, there conceivably could have been, not that

I recall right now.

Do you recall

any attempts by the Agency or groups

affiliated with the Agency to raise money from the American

public to support those propaganda activities?

No. As far as I know, Radio Swan and this type of

thing was fully subsidized by the Agency.

Do you recall the advertising campaigns that were

Iun in connection with Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty?

Oh, yes.

Was anything of that nature done in connection with

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Cuban propaganda?

Not to my knowledge.

And that would include both the publications and the

radio?

A

WAND I VANI

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Right.

Let's taik about economic warfare for a couple of

moments. Could you describe for me briefly the type of

economic activities that were condücted against Castro?

Well; first of all, we wanted to denigrate the

regime, his credit vorthiness, and this type of thing. We

worked very closely with the Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in

the State Department and, well, for instance, in those days,

guess it was back in 1964, the price of sugar had

jumped from

about a penny a pound to 13 cents a pound, something like

that, and we couldn't understand why. So we kept - Fidel kept

saying that he had such a

poor crop and this type of thing and

we just couldn't figure out why he had such a poor crop because.

some of our own island assets told us they were out there cutting

this cane like mad and the mills were working 24 hours a day,

this type of thing. So subsequently, we found out that he was

lying and he was storing the raw cane in the schools, any

place. He had no storage facilities and put it any place he

could.

So in cooperation with a couple of sugar brokers in

New York, we surfaced this fact and the price of sugar took a

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real tumble and all of a sudden then Cuba started exporting.

It was this type of thing that obviously he was

trying to build up the world price because he didn't have any

money, he was so short on his exchange, and obviously we didn't!

want him to get the exchange.

So it was those types of

activities.

Was the assistance of any U.S. businessmen or u.s.

companies enlisted in that effort?

A

Oh, yes.

2

In what manner did you use U.S. companies and

businessmen?

Well, ve simply used them as the experts. A great

many -- the sugar industry in Cuba was controlled by the

American community, by American bankers, and obviously they

lost everything when shey had to pull out. Sugar is the

lifeline of Cuba as far

as any exchange, foreign exchange, thisi

type of thing, and it was

naturally our Number 1 target. So it

was only natural that ive would go to the American businessmen.

what kind of assistance did you seek of obtain from

these businessmen?

A

weil, ve sinply talked with them about why -- you

know, the market conditions. were, why the price was rising, if

we could find out that Fidel has plenty of sugar, what would

happen to the market price. This type of thing.

They were used as consultants, basically.

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They were used

as consultants, basically, yes.

. 0

We have spoken about the investment American business

had in Cuba. Did it

ever come

to your attention that American

organized crime --

A

NO.

-- had considerable investment in Cuba?

No. weld,

everybody knew that the Mafia was in

Cuba. I mean, all the casinos and this type of thing.

The casinos were run -

I knew that long before. When I was in the Air Force

during the war, I used to fly into Havana on weekends and this

type of thing.

I understand that. It was fairly well known.

A

It was a criminal element:

The Mafia was involved with the casinos in Havana.

A

Right.

Do you know of any attempts by the Agency to enlist

the support or assistance of any crime figures in any manner

whatsoever in the Agency's efforts against the Cuban regime?

No.

Have you ever heard of Mr.Roselli?

A

oh, yes.

When was the first time you heard of Mr. Roselli?

well, I guess it was -- it seems to me it was either

Drew Pearson or Jack Anderson had an article on him a number

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of years ago.

Was that the first

time you heard of the man's

i.-.

a==:

name?

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Yes, as I recall.

Is that also true of Sam Giancana?

No. I have heard that name but I don't know where.

In connection with -

A

Not in connection with the Agency, no.

In connection with the casinos or --

A

NO.

-- gambling interests in Cuba?

A

No.

You know of no instance in wirich organized crime

figures were used as consuitants by the Agency?

A

Only what I read in the paper. I had no knowledge

of that whatsoever.

2

Do you know of any offers of assistance from figures

of that type --

A

iNo.

- who were interested in getting back into cuba?

A

No.

2

We were talking about economic warfare. We have

talked about attempts to keep the price of sugar low. What other

types of economic activities were conducted against Castro's

Cuba?

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WARD

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A

Well, we used all-source information to find out what!

his commercial dealings were. When we would see - well, foI

instance, the Nicaro Nickel Mine which is a source owned

by the General Services Administration, finally got back into.

production and

nickel, of course, and still is - was in short

supply.

We had

a French firm, Societe le Nickel, who was

buying almost, the entire output of the Nicaro mines. And this

French firm ex ported to the United States. So we went to

the Ireasury Department and to the Foreign Assets Control

people and said, isn't there something we can do to stop these !

le Nickel exports coming into the United States? So they looked

into the thing and indeed they did.

Who owned the mine?

The U.S. Government owned it when Castro took it

11U FUSI SIdEL, S.E., Washington, O C. 20003

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over.

I see.

A

General Services. Administration. And it was leased

out for operation. But the ownership rested with the

Government.

So the Treasury

simply made the French provide a

Certificate of Origin for the nickel that went in -- they

export a lot of metal that contains nickel, silverware, knives

and forks, this type of thing, and - you know, stainless

steel, and since nickel is used as a hardening agent we simply

- Treasury simply

said you can't import any more into this

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country until we have a Certificate of Origin. As a matter

of fact, there was a boat that was pulling into the dock in

New York and they wouldn't let it unload. They just turned it

around. Eventually, over a period of months, le Nickel

found other sources and export privileges to the United States

were restored.

You know, it is - you just -- any time you raise

or lower a tariff you have economic warfare. It is that

simple.

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Were there any other instances that you can recall

of economic warfare in which you enlisted the support of

American business firms?

I know we were in touch with a great many American

business firms. We enlisted everybody's support that we could.

MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

BY MR. MANFREDI:

When we broke for a moment we were discussing other

instances where the Agency has enlisted the support of American

business in economic warfare against Cuba. Can you think of

any other such instances?

Oh, certainly. The Cubans were having an awful time

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with their Maritime fleet, such as it was. These boats were

powered with Nordberg engines. We simply went to the Nordberg

people and told them - asked them to cooperate with us, which

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they said they would. They notified their manufacturer's

representatives around the world if they got any orders from

the Cubans they were

to be refused. This type of thing.

We did the

same thing with --

Let's just stop for a second. Now, was Nordberg

compensated in any way for cooperation with the Agency?

NO.

Were they compensated for the loss of business

involved in that activity?

A

No. No.

I take it, you received similar cooperation from

other companies.

A

Oh, a great many other companies, yes.

Did any American companies refuse to cooperate in

that manner?

A

No. Not a one.

... Q

Were there any legal sanctions threatened against any

companies?

No. No.

Were there any sanctions that could have been brought

to bear upon those companies had they chosen to trade with

Cuba?

A

Well, in the first place, they couldn't trade with.

Cuba. They couldn't get export licenses from this country

anyway. Then, under the Foreign Assets Control Act of the

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Treasury Department you have the extra-territorialty clause

in there where a subsidiary of an American company cannot --

foreign subsidiary of an American company cannot trade with

the country that is designated and Cuba was a designated country.

And all the businessmen were well aware of this. Nobody tried

to twist their arm.

Other than insuring that these companies refused

to accept orders from Cuba, which I take it you feel they were

legally constrained from doing, what other types of support dia

you receive from American business?

A

Well, if American business - sometimes they would

receive correspondence, particularly, say, from - well, they

received it from Cuba asking for publications and this type

of thing. They would normally forward all this type of thing

to the Commerce Department and the Treasury Department, or in

some instances they might call me and I would just give them

a Post Office box to send the correspondence to.

Any other types of support solicited or received by

the Agency from American business?

A

No. Not that I can recall. There just wasn't one

firm we approached, and God knows we approached I don't know

how many, that wasn't extremely cooperative. As a matter of

fact, a lot of them, you know, thought we weren't doing enough,

that we ought to do a little more than we were doing, the

government wasn't really pushing Cuba the way it should, but

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outside of that, nothing.

There wasn't any problem of coopera-

tIon.

There wasn't any arm-twisting. It was all voluntary.

Did you identify yourself as CIA --

A

Yes.

- in dealings with these companies?

A

Indeed, I do and we went to the top level, even

the Board Chairman of the president. No problem at all:

•

Let's talk about paramilitary operations. We started

but didn't really discuss that in any depth.

What kind of paramilitary operations were run

against Cuba by the CIA?

Maritime operations.

Is that the extent of it?

A

That is the extent of it.

2

Were there

any aerial operations?

Not to my knowledge.

Leaflet drops?

A

No.

Bombing?

A

No. Of course, you had the over-flights. As far as

I am concerned that is the only aerial activity.

That was run by another directorate, wasn't it?

Yes.

A.

Aerial photography, and so forth:

Yes. They run a flight when you ask them. It has to

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be requested and that is about it.

And those were run out of the United States?

Oh, yes.

Can you think of anything, any other type of para-

military activity other than maritime operations.

A

No. I really can't, no.

Am I correct that those operations were manned

by CIA contract employees?

A

Right.

Which would include Cuban refugees.

A

Right.

Q. And some CIA officers?

A

Right.

Any other branches of the services, Armed Services,

involved? This, of course, is posted Bay of Pigs.

A

Yes. No, not to my knowledge. You have got to remember

that probably down at our Domestic Training Station we

probably have people on detail from other -- from the military

branches in the Government, but other than that I don't think

that -- of course, during the Bay of Pigs operation we also

had people detailed into the Agency.

Now, the training of persons involved in maritime

operations, I take it, was conducted in part within the

United States and in part outside of the United States.

Is

that correct?

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I would think probably the major portion of it was

conducted within the United States.

The Keys would be considered within the United

States.

A

Oh, yes.

Q

Or were there any locations where it was conducted

outside the United States?

A

Following the Bay of Pigs, I don't think so. Not

to my knowledge. I just don't know, I just don't recall

but I don't think that -- I think all the training was done

domestically.

Now, what kinds of operations are included within

this category of maritime operations?

A

Well, the infiltration operations, infiltrating

agents into Cuba, exfiltrating agents, hit and run sabotage

raids. That is about the extent of it.

Now, when did. these operations commence? Was it

shortly after the Bay of. Pigs?.

A

I would - I think these operations were probably

at their height during the period about 1963 through, say,

1967. The program was terminated in 1968, I think in December

1968, something like that.

Why was the program terminated?

A

First of all, it was too expensive. It wasn't provia-

ing enough intelligence and it simply wasn't - economically,

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it wasn't feasible to continue these things. The agents were

getting wrapped up. We were - we just felt that the return

wasn't sufficient for what the investment was.

You say the agents were getting wrapped up.

A

Yes.

What do you mean by that?

A

When we infiltrated an agent, Cubans would identify

him and capture him.

These various types of paramilitary operations that

were conducted by the Agency I trust were approved by the

Forty Committee?

Every operation received a specific approval from

the Forty Committee.

In advance?

A

In advance.

Now, what was the procedure for submitting - for

initiating such an operation?

Well, normally in the case of an infil or an exfil.

or perhaps we wanted to lay down the cache:

You are referring to a cache of arms.

A

A cache of anything, replay of radio, batteries,

whatever they might need.

If we decided that we should have

one of these operations and the request would go from here

over to the, I guess to the White House and then the Forty

Committee at its weekly meeting - they used to meet very

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frequently -- they would either approve the operation or say

no. These operations had to be planned well in advance because

the tides had to be right, the moon had to be in the proper

phase for communications and this type of thing. And these

things, all these were coordinated with the Joint Chiefs of

Staff, the Navy, the Coast Guard, the FBI. If we were

exiltrating people, the Immigration and Naturalization Service.

Every Government agency or enforcement agency or military

agency that had any involvement whatsoever, and the entire

thing was coordinated.

Do you know of any such paramilitary operations

that were run unbeknownst to the Forty Committee?

A

No.

What kind of volume of operations are we talking

about?

A

You are not talking about a very big volume of

operations because of the planning that had to go into these

things. I would say that probably at the height of the thing

they may be running three or four a month. No more than that.

You have heard Eugenio Martinez refer to having

run 300 operations.

A

I have seen that.

Is that inaccurate?

well, it all depends on what is in his mind. He

may have considered some of the training exercises as opera-

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tions. Obviously, these guys trained. In order to run one

of these operations, you know, you would have to have a mother

ship in place and rubber boats and the UDT people to go in to

see if there were mines and this type of thing on the shore

before you go. So he may have considered that all these train-

ing exercises were operations but no way did he ever partici-

pate in any three or 400 active operations into Cuba.

Now, from what specific locations were these

operations launched?

A

They were mostly launched from the: Keys.

Any other locations?

Not to my knowledge.

Now, would you describe. for me the kind of hit and

run sabotage operations that were conducted?

Well, we conducted one hit and run sabotage against

the Texaco refinery.

What used to be the Texaco refinery?

A

What used to be the Texaco refinery.

MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

THE WITNESS: These things, a great amount of planning

went into these things. We did have a model of the refinery.

We agonized over the best approach to the refinery and this

type of thing to do the most effective damage. This was run. It

was successful, as I recall, not totally successful but it was

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a successful operation. By that, I mean they didn't do as

much damage as they wanted to because they had to get out

because the Cuban defense came after them. It was that type

of operation that we did.

As I recall, another time we took a team in to burn

some cane fields. Really, the classical operations that we

did in the maritime activities were the infiltrations and

exfiltrations.

Were any CIA operations run out of Guantanamo?

A

Not to my knowledge.

Was it impractical to use the base there for -

A. Well, the base is so surrounded and has been that

I think if a guy went through that fence you would carry him

back. He wouldn't walk.

MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI:

Are there any other categories of sabotage run out

of the Keys other than what you have just described?

A

Well, we did lay down a cache, if you will, sabotage

kits to be used by our own island agents. They contained

sugar to dump into gas tanks and metal fragments to put down

crank cases. Things of this nature.

One of our main objects was to, of course, sabotage

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all the oil. We did that with a big operation. We made our

own oil, substandard. Additives, I should say, not oil. We

contracted with an American firm for that. And we shipped

it in through third countries in Europe. It did hit the target.

The thing we wanted to get at was the oil and the

automotive machinery on the island. We knew it was breaking

down and if we could get a complete breakdown we would have

everything at a standstill because in those days the automotive

equipment wasn't coming in that rapidly from Europe because

Castro didn't hve the money to buy it and they weren't going

to

extend the credit.

The railroad system was in total disaster. The

Soviets had such a long logistics line, supply line, plus

the fact that the Cubans didn't like the Soviet equipment

because they were used to good American equipment. And these

were principal targets that we were trying to get to.

.. Q

In your experience at the Agency can you think of

any other analogus or similar paramilitary operations run

from a base in the United States?

A

No.

, l

in the United States.

I know there has been some paramilitary training

A

oh, yes.

In connection with other operations.

Oh, sure.

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But do you know of any paramilitary operations that

were actually run out of the United States?

No.

As far as you know, then, this is a totally unique

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WARD

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As far as I am concerned, it is, yes.

Now, how large a Navy was actually organized in

Miami? On a previous occasion you described this to me as

the third largest Navy in the Caribbean.

A

That is right.

A

What kind of equipment did these people have?

Well, we had -- honestly, everything from a canoe

up to three to 500 foot mother

ship. We had Boston whalers,

rubber boats. We had a number of craft in, say, the 27 to

45 foot. length. And they looked like real tubs. They were

painted and they looked like they wouldn't even float but

they had the fastest engines in them. They could outrun any-

thing. They were extremely well armed. We had our under

water demolition teams. We had a pretty good Navy.

Did these craft operate under non-official cover

in the Miami area?

firm?

A

A

Yes.

Were there a variety of covers or was there one

No. Variety.

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Fishing companies?

A

Well, fishing companies, Geodetic Survey, marine

supply. In all, I think during the period that the station

and these other entities were under commercial cover, or non-

official cover, I think we had 100 so cover companies.

0

Did any of these companies actually engage in any

legitimate commercial activities?

A

Not to my knowledge, no.

None of them - were any of them in competition with

firms in that area?

A

These are probably what we would call devised

facilities. They were probably registered with the State of

Florida and they paid taxes

and this type of thing, but if one

was. blown or became known, we just crossed that out of

existence and started up a new one.

What did Eugenio Martinez do when he wasn't running

these operations?

Well, he was down -- this is one of the reasons, as

I told you before, we brought him back and put him under that

contract, that retainer, because of the years that he spent

under such strict operational discipline down in the Keys.

Obviously, he didn't stay down there all the time. He

came back -- he might come back once a month,. or something

like that, to see his family, perhaps once every two weeks

if he got some time off.

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I see. So some of these boats and personnel were

actually stationed full-time in the Keys.

A

Oh, yes. Oh, sure.

Were there any operations run out of the United

States which involved destruction of crops or poisoning of

sugar of anything of that sort?

A

What did you have in mind specifically? You mean the

Puerto Rican thing?

well, that is one of the things I had in mind.

Would you describe that for me?

A

Well, this is, I guess you could term it a target of

opportunity. This was where a vessel was carrying Cuban sugar

to the Soviet Union and I forget exactly now what happened to

it but I know that it got a hole below the waterline, or

something, and had to put into Puerto Rico for repairs.

In order to repair it, I guess, and get it in the

drydock or wherever it

was, they had to remove the sugar and

put it in the warehouse and at that time I guess somebody came

up with a plan to try to widen the rift between -- there was

a rift at that time between the Soviets and Cubans and to

put a harmless substance into the sugar that would make it

acid, sour tasting, and it wouldn't harm the sugar of the

individual, and some of this was done. And then when it

leaked, of course, we had to get rid of it and we had a sugar

firm buy it back from

the Soviets.

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Bought it back from the Soviets?

A

Yes.

MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI :

Are there any other operations in which crops were

-- were there attempts to destroy crops in Cuba?

No. No.

Q

Place foreign substances in Cuban products?

A

In Cuban products?

Yes.

A

No.

Not that I recall. You see, Cuba really - in

those days the only thing, Cuba was exporting sugar and nickel.

The agriculture sector of the economy was in absolutely total

chaos. God, they didn't have any citrus, they didn't have

anything, and the poor people in Cuba were literally starving.

There just wasn't anything to eat. And Fidel was going around

with this big plan -- of course, there were a number of

experimental cattle ranches in Cuba. King Ranch had one there.

I forget - several other European and American companies that

had experimental cattle ranches there and they were experiment-

ing with the, you know, cross-breeding and this type of thing.

Fidel was preoccupied with this. He went up to

Canada and paid $100,000 for a bull and - so he just put it

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on an old Cuban Airways airplane. The damn airplane few too

high and the bull became sterile by the time he landed in

Cuba. No thought given to, you know, pressurizing the cabin

and keeping the temperature at a certain point and this type

of thing.

So he was helping us all along the line and

this here again, we generate propaganda, incompetence and this

type of thing.

But as far as sabotaging any Cuban product, no, we

didn't go into that. Our object was to enforce the blockade

and cut off his sources of supply.

When was the Miami Station established?

As a station?

Yes.

I think in September 1961.

And that was several years before you became involved

in Cuban matters?

_A

Yes.

Do you know of any other facilities of that nature

within the United States, Agency facilities?

A

You mean, targeted against the opposition?

Yes.

A station as

such?

Yes.

A

No. You have some communications facilities that

you really call stations because here again, they are not

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directed towards any domestic activity. They are in support of

overseas communications.

Of course, we have FR bases and DCD offices and

Office of Security officers, and so forth.

Right.

But I am talking about actual stations.

Operating stations, no.

This is the only such station in the United States

as far as you know, is that correct?

Right.

And was this station established to deal primarily

with Cuban activities?

A

Yes.

Cuban-related matters?

A

With Cuba, period.

Did it have, when it was established, any other

responsibilities with respect to Western Hemisphere activities?

A

Not to my knowledge.

Entirely limited, then, to Cuban activities?

A

Yes, and in support of Cuban activity and other

countries in the Hemisphere.

When you joined the group dealing with Cuban

activities, what was the size of the number of personnel

attached to that Station?

A

To that Station? Well, the Station had probably a

couple

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couple hundred staffers there, full-time employees of the

Agency, plus I don't know how many contract employees,

independent contractors, probably another 200 minimum. It was

obviously the largest installation we had. I think at its

height it had over 500 people in it.

Full-time Agency people?

A

No, no.

2

Combination of contract and -

And full-time, yes.

A regular employee we call a staff

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employee.

Now, would Martinez have been one of those contract

people?

A

Yes.

Even though he was located down in the Keys? .

oh, yes.

And what kind of facilities did the Station have in

Miami? Physical facilities.

Well, they were located on the south campus of the

University of Florida, I mean, the University of Miami, at

the old Richmond Naval Air Station. It was a self-contained

unit. It was pretty well off the beaten path, in fact, damn

well off the beaten path. It was about four miles from the

Dixie Highway inland. We had our own guard force.

Official cover?

No. Non-official.

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SEEKEI

53

Non-official cover. What was the cover?

A

It was a commercial cover. It was called - the first

one was called Zenith Corporation and it was set up with a

President and Vice President, normal corporate setup.

Engaging in any business?

No.

Now, in a community of that type, Cuban community,

how long could a non-official cover last?

A

well, obviously it didn't, but it was research

activities. Funded -- it:is a giant mechanism when you put

one of these things in for the funding and this type of thing,

• for your ostensible customers, establishing bank accounts.

Yes, I understand.

So it was a research activity and the only people that

ever paid any attention to the place were the newspapers. You

know, somebody would make an inquiry, you know, we can't accept

any work, we are loaded with Government contracts and this

type of thing, and it held up reasonably well. And out of

this one thing, of course, then we were running these innumera-

ble other covers with different activities. The guard

force, of course, were like - well, they wore uniforms, similar

to the Pinkerton people and this type of thing. And I think

that there was -- in the later days at that site I think the.

Department of Agriculture had offices in there and some other

Government agencies, in other buildings, of course.

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And this particular Station, then, was under the

supervision of the group we have been discussing?

A

Yes. They were staffed within the Cuban Operations.

When did the Western Hemisphere Division resume

responsibilities for the Miami Station?

A

Well, when Des. Fitzgerald left as Chief of the

Special Activities Staff and became Chief of the Western

Hemisphere Division, he brought it back into the Division.

Is there presently a Miami Station?

A

oh, yes.

And how large is it at the present time?

A

Well, since we -- I think when we closed down the

Cuban Operations, I don't know how large it is at the present

time because we are in one of these periods where we-are

reassigning people, but I think by the end of this fiscal year

there are going to be between 11 and 14 people.

When you joined the group in 1963,. what functions

were being performed by the Miami Station?

A

Well, all the classical intelligence functions.

I

think I have lined them out at one time -- collection of

positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary, this

type of thing. Covert action.

This is the list of things you gave me earlier in

the deposition?

Yes.

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Which of these activities, if any

of them were

actually being conducted within the Cuban community in Miami?

well, the collection of foreign positive and probably

counterintelligence.

So the Agency was conducting counterintelligence

activities in the Miami area?

Yes, sir.

Can you give me an example of the kinds of counter-

intelligence activities that the Agency would be conducting

in that area or was conducting in the area at that time?

A

Well, we had

a number of joint operations, as I

recall, with the Bureau. We had identified a Castro agent that

came in by small boat and when she was - she came in with a

number of other people. When she hit the -- they had a recep-

tion center up in Opa Loca that was really a HEW operation.

The Domestic Contact Division office had people out there and

we did, too. Our people from the DDO were under Immigration

and, Naturalization Service cover. When the lEW people did the

preliminary interrogation of these people they had to fill

out forms, where were you born, this type of thing, biographic-

type thing. These forms would be passed to our people who

would

look at the forms and based on previous experience or what

they might have been doing, ad they felt that perhaps they

might have some information of intelligence value, they would

reinterrogate them.

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It was in this manner that this gal came to our

knowledge. We surveilled her for a long time and determined

that obviously she was receiving messages and she was

sending messages. So along with the Bureau we put a surveillance

on her and we obtained a van with DF equipment in it and

indeed, she went on the air in the morning at 5:00 o'clock

or 4:30 or whatever it was,

and the direction finder found

it was being beamed toward Cuba, this type of thing, and that

was oen of the examples of the CI activities we were involved

in.

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Were there many activities of that type?

A Not really. You have got to remember that the

Bureau's Cuban squad was fairly small. I mean, it was a large

squad in terms of FBI squads. It had 36 people on it, some-

thing like that, but 36 people trying to follow a couple of

hundred thousand Cubans around, you know, it is pretty nega-

tive. This was one of the reasons that obviously from.--

in those days when we had formed these revolutionary fronts

which were being run by the Cuban exiles, they were reporting

to Case Officers and they would report on things in the

community, of people they thought were suspect and this type

of thing. These leads in turn were then given to the Bureau

and it was to this extent that we got ourselves involved

in CI activity.

would it be fair to say that the involvement in CI

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activities in that area was primarily a function of the over-

whelming number of these people and the Bureau's inability

to properly staff the thing?

A

Yes, yes. You have got to remember, too, that a lot

of the people on that Cuban squad were in the legal section

of the Embassy in Havana. You know, the FBI overseas is

known as Legal Attaches, obviously working out of the Embassy

the same as our Station was, and a lot of our Station officers

from Havana were down in Miami at that time. So there was a

relationship there that had gone over a period of years

between the Agency and the Bureau.

MR. MANFREDI: We will reconvene at 1:00 o'clock.

(Whereupon, at 11:45 o'clock a.m., the taking of:

the deposition was recessed, to reconvene at 1:00 p.m., this

same day.)

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AFTERNOON SESSION

58

Thereupon,

WILLIAM C. STURBITTS,

called as a witness by Counsel for the Commission on CIA

Activities, and having

been

first duly sworn by the Notary

Public, was examined and testified as follows:

EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION (Cont'd)

BY MR. MANFREDI:

When we recessed for lunch you were talking about the

Miami Station • Do I understand that the Miami Station was the

largest CIA station in the world?

A.

The largest CIA station in the world.

D.

At its height?

A.

Nothing comes anyplace close to it.

I wonder if you could describe briefly for the record

what the hors were.

A.

Well, the ANOis were Cuban a Cuban intelligence

organization in exile.

We full intended -- this was part of the

overall contingency plan that US Government had. Should Castro

ever be overthrowni, these people would be the nucleus to go into

Cuba and form a new Ministry of the Interior.

Now, Ministry of the Interior, is that a euphemism

for Security Agency?

A.

Well, in most countries of the world the Ministry of

Interior, unlike ours, is the security force, internal and.

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And these people were Cuban exiles?

A.

Cuban exiles.

How large an outfit were the AMOTS?

A.

Well, at one time -- I can give vou the exact figures

but I know it well exceeded over inn, probably closer to --

Go ahead.

A.

Probably closer to 150, something like that.

Now, would that 150 persons be included within the

three to 500 who made up the Miami Station?

A.

No.

That was over and above the personnel of the Miami

Station?

A.

Right.

A.

These people were fulltime CIA employes, weren't they?

Right. WEll, let me - these people really were -

they were being subsidized by the Agency.

They were employed

bisio cover companies, the largest of which was called Latin

American Social and Economic Research. Then we had another

smaller group that did the interrogating and they were under

another cover; commercial cover, - I just don't recall what it

was. But these peope ostensibly were employees of these wholl!

owned proprietaries of the Ayency. They were duly constituted,

incorporated, paid taxes, all this type of thing.

The salaries of these people, although paid indirectly,

were naid by the CIA?

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That is right.

D.

And was training provided them by the Agency?

Oh, yes.

A.

You said the

smaller group of the two groups that made

up the AMOTS conducted the interrogations, is that correct?

A.

Right.

When you speak of interrogations, are you referring to

debriefings?

A.

I am referring to debriefings of newly arrived exiles

or perhaps exiles that had been in the country whom during their

time here had acquired new information.

How were those -- how and where were those debriefings

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Well, normally the debriefings were conducted at Opa

Loca.

That is the Air Base?

A.

That is the old Air Base there but that is where the

reception center was for all the Cuban refugees coming in.

Sometimes if there was going to be a lengthy debriefing, we had

a residence which we rented and the interior was changed into.

small rooms like this where vou could bring people in, sit them

down, under controlled conditions, and debrief them without any

interference and this type of thing.

0.

For how long a period did these debriefings go on?

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You mean in terms of vears?

Yes.

A.

Well, I would think that I would probably say from

about 1962, and I think the debriefings

as such, of course --

¡we relied principally on the

airlift for the people coming out

and when the airlift was cut off, which Castro did -- cut off

about, I quess about 1970 or '71, in that timeframe -

I see.

A.

-- that stopped the flow of the refugees, so we just

terminated that part of the activity.

D.

Well, in addition to debriefing refugees that came

in in the airlift, did the smaller group of AMOTS have any other

intelligence gathering functions --

A.

No.

In the community?

A.

Well, I can't give you a real yes of no to that. I

would suppose that there is an outside possibility they could

have been used to debrief people within the community, within

the Cuban community, but we had in the organization - all these

people were Cuban with the exception of we had what we call an

On-Site Case Officer, who was a fulltime staff employee and he

had a couple of assistants, including a secretary. These people

were directly under his control. Though the organization as it

was set up, they had their own chief and this type of thing,

but the chief. took his instructions from the On-site Case Officer.

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62

of course, if these people went out and did something on

their own, they could do things we were not aware of, obviously.

You can't -- you know what they are doing during their eight or

ten hours that they are going to work everyday but once they

leave, we don't know what they are up to.

Did they have CIA credentials?

A.

No sir, because

they were proprietary hires of this

commercial cover.

Did CIA levy any intelligence requirements upon these

people other than in their duties - in their debriefing

capacity, I should say?

A.

No. When there were - obviously there was a

standard debriefing form that covered questions of intelligence

interest or a battle, you know, anything - economic questions,

morale, and this type of thing. When these questions - when.

these people were cebriefed and the debriefer wrote up the

report, it would be sent from the AMOTS over to the Station.

If the debriefing report contained something of positive

intelligence, of that nature, the Case Officer - well, not the

Case Officer but a staffer in the Station may or may not jot

down some additional requirements and. ask that that person be

recontacted and asked specific questions.

Now, in addition to debriefing, what else did this

smaller broup of AMOTS do for the Agency in the Miami area?

A.

This was their prime purpose.

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How large was that particular group?

A.

Oh, there were only about, I would say at the outside,

I think there were about five debriefers with the support people

which would he secretaries, translators, strictly administrative

types. I don't think there were more than probably 12 or 15

in that group, if there were that many.

MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.

(Off the record discussion)

BY MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.

Before ve nove on to further discussion of the AMOrS

could you briefly describe for me what role the CIA plays in

resettling Cuban emigres?

A.

CIA doesn't resettle Cuban emigres.

What Agency is charged with that responsibility?

A.

Health, Education and Welfare.

Does CIA play any role in that process?

A.

We may assist if we are asked but the idea of the whole

airlift was having relatives here. for somebody to claim you when

you came in so you wouldn't become a ward of the State of the

Government, and normally when these refugees came in, they were

processed through the Center and then they had a place down

on

Biscayne Boulevard they called Freedom House and this was, of

course, all run by lEW, and they - if need be and they had to

stay overnight or stay several days, HEW would put them up and

care for them in Freedon House.

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Then as soon as they could, of course, they would move them

to the areas where they wanted to resettle them, where the

relatives were, this type of thing, and we had nothing to do

with that whatsoever.

Turning back to the AMOTS, and to the larger of the

two groups, what was

the name of that group again?

A.

SASER, Latin American Social and Economic Research.

We can call them LASER for short?

A.

Really, they are both - the only reason we separated

the two groups was for security because we had one group housed

over here and the smaller group was over here. Obviously we

couldn't bring these refugees into the larger establishment, so

that is why we took the smaller establishment to preserve some

cover.

Okay. What activities was the larger group engaged

in?

A.

WEll, the larger group was engaged in the collection

of intelligence.

they compiled dossiers on the principals

inside Cuba. They carded - they kept card files on every

refugee that came through the reception center.

They provided

they did do economic and social reporting. They put out a

monthly newsletter based on the information they collected.

The information these people collected as opposed to the

information we collected, ther's was all unclassified. That

came from -- all the information they had came from human sources

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or overt publications.

We subscribed - well, the proprietary

subscribed to a number, a great many newspapers, periodicals,

Spanish language type things.

Well, they were doing clandestine collections as well,

weren't they?

A.

I don't know if you could call it clandestine. What

did you have in mind?

0.

Well, would they run agents in the community?

A.

Well, yes, there were penetrations of the Cuban

community, yes.

A.

And that is clandestine collection, isn't it?

WE11, I call that human resources.

All right. Where are these files now?

A.

They are in the Headquarters here. A great many of

them were really destroyed. It got to be rather comic. We

went down there several years ago just looking through the files

to see what kind of shape they were in and they had such great

information for intelligence value in there as a picture of a

gal who might be the daughter of a Cuban refugee who just won

a swimming meet. It got rather ridiculous. So we purged those

files and took out that material, you know, which just didn't

have any pertinancy at all.

How are the files organized? You indicated before that

there is a card, index card for each Cuban refugee?

A.

Right.

0.

Are there soft cover files as well?

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Yes.

For each Cuban refugee?

A. :

No. Not for each Cuban refugee. I think, as I

recall, those card files were up in the milli-ns and I forget,

we had I quess the manilla files, probably went into the tens

of thousands, I would think.

Now, is there any way to determine from those files

which of those exiles have become United States citizens?

A.

No way.

Has there been any effort to make such a determina-

tion?

A.

We made an effort at one time but this -- you can

become nationalized out in California and your record of

nationalization wouldn't be reflected here in Washington for

two years. That is how far they are behind.

So I take it-

A.

So there is no central index you can go to. I mean,

there is a central index you can go to but it is not current.

I take it, then, that there is a possibility that the

CIA has some files in Miami or here in Langley on Cubans who

are now American citizens?

• A.

Absolutely true.

Now, are any of those files likely to contain

derogator! information about the individuals involved?

A.

well, no. One of the things these people do, of

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67

course, we had targets for recruitment. It could range from

anything from a first mate, a captain or chief engineer of a

Cuban maritime vessel to Fidel. When we targeted these people

as possible recruitments, for possible recruitment, we would

ask

that all the information on that individual be assembled so that

we could do a complete target study -- habits, you know,

everything right down the line. In case of some of the more

important ones, of course, we had psychological studies prepared

where we had enough information. But this is one of the things

these people did. If we said we want everything you have on the

first mate of the - one of the Cuban ships, then they would

start looking through the papers or anything else to come up

with anything they could on what the guy's current activities

are, his background, his life habits, this tupe of thing.

Well, the AMOTS were going to be the intelligence

service of Cuba?

A.

Right.

And they obviously were going to perform some function

in addition to recruitment of agents?

A.

Right.

D.

I take it they were trained in counterintelligence,

gathering of positive intelligence, recruitment and all of the

traditional skills, is that correct?

A.

That is about right.

So I trust that they had files that were amassed for

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purposes other than recruitment?

A. :

Well -

D.

For example, let me

ask you this.

Were any of these

files on Cubans who were

suspected or thought to be a possible

internal security problem?

A.

No. No. They didn't keep those types of files.

We

would simply task them

with through your sources what do you

have on so and so. They would not be told the reason why we

wanted the information on anybody.

Well, I quess with several million fiels or several

million cards and tens of thousands of files it is difficult to

make generalizations about the kind of information that is in

those files?

A.

Well, that is right.

So I guess I won't ask you to do so, but I want to ask

you this. I trust that there is the possibility that some of

these files do contain what you in the trade refer to as deroga-

tory information?

A.

I would assume so.

And that so much of them may - some of the subjects

of those files may now he American citizens?

A.

Right.

And finally I take it that no effort has been made to

study that particular situation?

A.

WEll, we did make an effort to do it at one time:

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You know, we have a traveler program where when Cubans travel,

whether they are on an island or perhaps other places, their

names turn up on manifests and this type of thing. Well, these

are put into a machine system. What we did when these cards

were all transferred back here in Miami, we did go through them

at random and pick out cards and then try to match it up with

what the machine system had to see if there was updated informa-

tion in the machine system that would show that this guy had

become a naturalized citizen, and it didn't work out. So --

Excuse me, off the record.

(Off the record discussion)

MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI:

I want to straighten out confusion in my own mind

where these files presently reside. The cards I take it are

presently here in Washington?

The cards and what is left of the files.

That is the soft cover files?

A.

Yes.

And

A.

I assume they are either here or down at the

Records Center.

And where is the computer system?

A.

You mean our machine system? We have --

The machine here that you tried to match up with the

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information on the cards?

A.

Right down on the third floor.

That is not the hydro system?

A.

oh, по, по.

This is a separate

A.

This is a complete

-- only the Latin American Divisioni

uses this particular system.

What kind of records - trike that.

The AMOTS are still in existence, aren't they?

A.

No.

I thought they were going out in June.

A.

Well, okay. They are on the books until June.

I see.

A.

But they have all been let go. They were let go

they were all given six months termination honuses and told to

go find a job.

Do they have any facilities, physical facilities, in

Miami at this time?

Л.

no.

So there are no records in Miami?

A.

No. No. We brought all those records back here.

0.

Did the AMOTS have law enforcement responsibilities

in the Miami community?

A.

No. No.

P. ' Any affiliation with law enforcement groups?

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A.

Not to my knowledge.

What else did they do, this larger group of MOTS that

was not doing debriefings?

A.

Well, when they were trained in trade craft we would

send them to other countries, in Europe and within the Hemisphere

to train some of the local services in those countries. They

served as safe housekeepers in other countries. They served in

listening posts where we had audio --

0.

Foreign listening posts?

A.

Oh, yes, foreign.

Any domestic listening posts?

A.

No, no.

Any domestic surveillances conducted by these people?

A.

I would assume -- this I cannot answer because I reall

don't know. I know that they did a great number of things but

to my knowledge there wasn't any domestic surveillance

conducted by them.

Now, if it was conducted, and if it is a matter of record,

I don't know where it could be.

What intelligence gathering activities did they

conduct in the Cuban community in Miami?

A.

One. of the big problems we had was within that Cuban

community, as I said earlier, were some of the militant anti-

Castro groups and this just drove the FBI and the Coast Guard

and Customs and in general the law enforcement US. Government

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agencies in Miami plus

the State government enforcement agencies

up the wall and, of course, I guess it was around - the

Government allowed a lot of this to go on for awhile but I guess

about 1965 or 1964 they got a little tired of it and they

started to tighten up.

I am sure the AMOTS were in part responsible for proposing

alerting us and in turn we alerted the enforcement agencies when!

there was going to he a raid against Cuba by one of these

militant groups.

A number of times raids were aborted, picked

up by the Coast Guard or Florida Coastal Patrol or the Bureau,

this type of thing.

These people were arrested?

A.

Oh, ves.

D.

Prosecuted?

A.

Not really.

Any of them American citizens?

A.

Not to my knowledge.

This would be Alpha 66 type groups?

A.

I don't know whether this guy - well, you know, they

are still after this Masferrer and this guy Donestevez. I don't

know if they ever did get him in jail but they had him up on

so many charges and he was a Cuban exile that made it big here.

He was a boat manufacturer, small boats, but whether he ever

served any time or not I don't know...I know he was convicted

but he was always walking around Miami when I was there. So

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I truthfully don't know whether any of these people ever went

2

to jaul or not.

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Other than identifying operations by militant anti-

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• Castro groups, what other intelligence gathering did the AMOTS

5

engage in?

6

:

A.

Well, of course, there was a counterintelligence --

7

I wouldn't call it a project but a counterintelligence. interest

8

at that time because we knew that they were infiltrating agents.

9

Q. Cubans were?

A.

The Cuban Government. They couldn't do it very well

10

11

on the airlift because, as I said before, the aged, infirm, and

12

young, but they did infiltrate them by small boat. And I don't

- well, we had knowledge that this was on and we did try to

13

14

identify those people whom we thought would be suspect..

Was

that

done in cooperation with the Bureau?

A.

With

the

Bureau, yes.

16

Q.

Because of their manpower limitations you folks were

17:

18

in a better position to do it?

A.

Yes, and language-wise, too. That is always a big

19

factor.

.20

0.

And this was conducted through the AMOTS?

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A.

Yes.

22

How substantial was the counterintelligence operation

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in the community?

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A.

WEll, it wasn't that big. They identified not what I

25

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would call a great number of suspect infiltrees, but they did

come up with a few promising ones and ones it turned over to the

Bureau, of course, we have no idea what the hell ever happens

to it because, you know, you just - unless you personally know

the guy in the Bureau that is handling the case, you might as

well forget it. You have got too many other things to do.

What other positive intelligence gathering activities

were they engaging in?

A.

Well, as I told you, one part of them were engaged in

electronic intercept.

Where was that done?

A.

Down in Florda, down in Homestead.

This is Southeast of Homestead?

Yes.

What ere they intercepting?

A.

Well, originally they were set up to assist with the

commo. for the infiltration.

As we phased down the maritime activities, they were made

available to intercept Cuban communications. NSA tasks them with

the frequencies they wanted covered and the Cuban Communications

nets they wanted covered, such as the border guards. Another

important one was the sugar network. We had the border guards,

sugar, transportation, maritime. I think there was an interior

network they covered too. But all electronic intercept coverage.

is dictated by NSA.

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Now, since they belong to us we could levy ceratin require

ments on them if we wanted to, which we did very infrequently

because the common interests, -- we have a comnon interest in

what NSA has an interest in and unless there were one particular

operation going that they wanted to cover exactly what the Cubans

were doing, then we would task our people with that.

For instance, we knew a Cuban vessel was taking arms into

Africa and our operators saw the thing leave Havana and then

there was absolute silence. So nobody knew where the thing was.

But we knew arms were being loaded and we finally located the

boat in an African port, I mean the intercept operators did, when

¿steame back on the air. And this is the type of thing. As.

a matter of fact, they were unloading arms in Algiers. And 200

Cuban troops.

MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.

(Off the record discussion)

MR. MANFREDI: Let's go back on the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI :

Were the communications they were intercepting

exclusively foreign communications?

Exclusively foreign communications.

Were they intercepting any communications, one terminus

of which was the United States?

A.

No.

These were basically Cuban Government communications?

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A.

Right.

On the Island?

A.

Right.

Or between the Island and other locations?

A.

Yes.

0.

But not between the Island and the United States?

A.. No. Let's go off the record on that.:

(Off the record discussion)

BY MR. MANFRADI:

to vour knowledge were the got engaging in the

intercept of any communications, either that facility or else-

where, in the Miami area or in the southern part of the country?

A.

NO.

Of other communications?

A.

No.

A.

Is that their only intercept facility?

(Nods affirmative)

Do you know of your own personal knowledge - strike

that. Do you have any knowledge of any wiretaps, surveillances,

breakins or activities of that type other than what we have

discussed -

A.

No sir.

- that were conducted by the AgOTS?

A.

No sir. I want to go off the record a minute.

(Off the record discussion)

25

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BY MR. MANFREDI:

0.

I understand that a study of the history of the AMOTS

has been prepared by one of your members.

A.

That is right.

What is his name?

A.

I think it is Joaquin - I can't remember the last

name.

The poor guy is dead now anyway. Well, I will just have

to get that for you.

What is the title of the study?

A.

The title of the study - it is part of the historical

series of the Miami Station and I think it is just entitled "The

AMOT Organization."

What is the historical series of the Miami Station?

A.

It was done when Paul Hennessey was down there. What

we try to do as ve go along, from year to year, is set aside

what is considered to be some of the more significant things

the station might do or that might occur in the station personnell

wise, this type of thing, and then these things are written.

I see.

A.

At intervening periods of time.

When was this particular report prepared, the AMOTS?

A.

I think it was

predared in 1967 or '68.

It is a fairly lengthy document, isn't it?

A.

Yes.

And purports

to be a fairly complete history of the

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activities of the AMOTS?

A.

It starts back in 1959 when we first started using

this gent..

First started using what?

ties?

A.

A.

First started using, I forget what his name was.

I see.

Is it a chronological study of their activi-

A.

A.

Yes.

And you have a copy of that in your custody?

Yes.

I would like to see that document. And we will try

and obtain it through llank inoche's office.

Okay.

Excuse me just for a minute.

(Off the record. discussion)

MR. MANFREDI: On the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI: I wonder if you would -- let me ask you

this. There have heen some allegations in the press that

prominent newsmen in be Miami area have in the past been agents

of the CIA.

Mr. Olsen just cane into the office and I asked him to join!

us because some of your involvement in Cuban activities in the

Agency in the Miami area touch peripherally on some of the things

had has been charged with investigating, so I am going to turn

the examination over to him for whatever time he needs.

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MR. OLSEN: Thank vou, George.

BY MR. OLSEN:

Can you begin, since I have not been in on the begin

ning of the interview here, can you start off, Mr. Sturbitts,

by giving me about a one or two minute resume of what your

contacts were with the Cuban elements in Florida and elsewhere

withing this country on benals of the Agency?

A.

Well, I was a member of the Special Activities Staff

which was in effect the Cuban task force at Headquarters and the

Miami Station functioned under the Special Activities Staff in

a variety of intelligence collection and operations.

Who was the head of the Special Activities Staff?

A.

Desmond Fitzgerald.

And who was his immediate superior?

A.

Dick Bissell. Excuse me. No. At that time it was

Dick Helms. He was the DEP.

Deputy Director for Plans?

D.

A.

Deptuty Director for Plans.

What period of time are we talking about now?

We are talking in the period of 1963 to 1965.

MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.

(Off the record discussion)

BY MR. OLSEN:

So you were not involved in this Special Activities

Group during the 1959 to 'r1 period?

A.

No.

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Or the period

leading up to the Bay of Pigs?

NO.

2

And you were not involved in this program at all during

3

the same time that . Howard Hunt as involved in it?

4

2.

No.

6

Do you know what the position was Mr. Hunt occupied in:

connection with the Cuban operations of the Agency during the

.. ".

period of 1959 to '51?

.. - -

A.

To my recollection, Howard Hunt was on the Covert

9

Action Stait dealing in propaganda.

10

Was this propaganda directed to the Cuban people in

11

this country?

12 1

A.

No. Cuban people abroad.

13

And what was his connection with the planning for the

1÷

Bay of Pigs?

15

A.

I would have to review the record to really answer

15

that.

I don't know.

1?1

Didn't he spend an awful lot of time in the Miami

18

area?

19:

20 :

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0.

He commuted quite a bit.

Between Washington and --

Washington

and Miami.

22

0.

- and Miami.

During the period of 1960 and early

23

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Right.

25

..

Mr. Hunt has stated in his interviews and in his

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published materials that he was the person who was in charge of

2

organizing a political unit among Cubans in this country which

would constitute the Cuban government in exile. Do you recall

where that was?

5

That could be quite true.

6

Have you revieved, 4r. Sturbitts, the Agency's entire

7

files relating in any way to the Cuban operations and particu

8

larly with reference to whether they reflect any contacts

9

between the Agency and Frank Sturgis?

10

4.

Yes.

12

Or Frank Fiorini?

A.

12

There is no relationship.

Is it your testimony that the records and files of

13

the Agency reveal no officiai or unofficial contact of any

.14

16 :

17:

15 nature wich Frank Sturgis?

A.

To my knowlerige that is true.

I take it from that that you are emphatic in your

testimony that he was never an employee of the Agency?

18

A.

Extremely emphatic.

19

20

And you are also equally emphatic to the effect that

he was never a contract arent of the Agency?

21

22 i

...

A.

Exactly.

Do you know whether he ever served in the capacity

23

24

of being an informer or incormant to the Agency?

A.

It is possible that he could have been a source.

25

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YOu mean a source of --

A.

Source of information of another agent. Another

agency agent.

À.

Do the files of the Agency reflect any matter?

To my knowledge I don't recall anything like that

but

it is entirely possible that that could have happened without

being a matter of record.

0.

Do the files of the Agency reveal any instance what-

ever in which Frank Sturgis as ever asked to undertake any

kind of an operation or activity on behalf of the Agency?

to my knowlerige, nothing.

Do the files of the Agency reveal any evidence

whatever that Frank Sturgis was ever paid anything directly or

indirectly by the Amency?

To my knowledge, no.

Now, when you say "to my knowledge, no"

', in answer

to some of these questions, do I understand that to mean that

you are giving us the full benefit of your knowledge on the

¡basis of a full review of the Agency's records and files?

On Frank Sturgis, ves.

Okay. Duriny the period of time that you were with

the Special Activities Group from 1963 to '66, first of all,

can you tell us when that began in 1963?

When the special Activities Group --

No. When your contact with the Special Activities

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A.

It began -- well, it began around June of '63.

5

5

Now, with particuiar reference to the last half of

1963, including whatever

period in June '53 may not have been

involved, were there a great many. Cubans in the southern United

States who were active in revolutionary fronts that were being

7

sponsored by the Agency?

Wellm you mean agency sponsored fronts?

9

Yes.

10

A.

The Agency subsidized these fronts in an effort to

11

have unity rather than these split factions, split anti-Castro

12

factions. Obviously the leaders of the fronts knew that the

13 | CIA was subsidizing. Supposedly the people that joined these

fronts did not know they were being subsidized by the Agency

- 5

or the li.S. Government.

But when you say "supposedly," does the fact appear

16

to be otherwise?

WEll, based on my experience with the Cubans and this

18:

type of thing, and their penchant to talk, I would think that

it vouldn't take long for knowledge of any subsidy to surface

itself.

20

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Has it your opinion and impression at that time, Mr.

Sturbitts, that a great many Cubans considered themselves to be

involved in the CIA orranizations?

Yes.

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And again with particular reference to the Miami

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WARD & PAUL

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A.

Yes.

Was there also Cuban activity of this sort elsewhere

5

in the United States?

I an asking now particularly with

§ reference to vew orleans.

7

A.

There was

some Cuban presence in New Orleans.

I am

3

really not familiar with what happened in lew Orleans that was

sort of a sidesnow to Miami.

But the same is - it is possible that some of the

same Cuban organizations which were being sponsored or funded

by the Agency also had activities or operations in New Orleans?

A.

I don't know is i can answer that, whether they had

the same functions.

I know that some funding arrangement for

subsidizing the organizations in Miami was carried out through

New Orleans.

Well, can you he more specific about what you mean

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by that?

A.

Well, in other vords, to fund these organizations we

were subsidizing there had to be some ostensible source of

income for them to continue what they were doing.

A great

number - well, not a treat number, but a number of select

people were - well, they were selected and then they were

talked to, to pose as trustees, if you would, or directors or

whatever you might have of some of these organizations in order

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•to get the funding through to the organizations.

2

These people were

normaily prominent people and --

And

did they

get funded by the Agency, then, through

the mdeium of prominent and well-to-do

people?

5

A.

These weii-to-rio people ostensibly would call a friendi

6

of theirs that had been made trustee of another type of activity

7

and say, you know, we are trying to assist these Cubans in this

type of thing.

couid your organization give us any money, and

the guy on the other end would say, sure, ie can probably lend

1c: you $25,000 or something like that, or donate 525,000. This is:

the way the funding went into the fronts.

12

And was some of that funding arranged through peonle

in lew Orleans?

13

I would chink so. I believe so.

=5

Were any of the people in New Orleans through whom

=6

that

Eunding operation was effected people who turned out to be

?

involved in the

• investigations conducted by jin Garrison?

A.

iot to my knowlerge.

How about David Ferrie?

Was he ever connected with

19

the Agency in any Manner at all in providing funds or assistance!

20

to Cubans or Cuban groups?

21

22

:.:

A.

I couldn't say.

I am just not familiar with -- we had!

a great many people that did this.

23

How about Clay Shaw?

Was Clay Shaw ever used as a

24

funding source?

25

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This I do not know either.

0.

Pardon?

A.

This I don't know.

BY MR. MANFREDI:

Where wouid that information be available?

A.

Well, we have a guy that used to work with me who was

down in New Orleans at that time.

He would probably know.

Is he in the building?

Yes.

What is his name?

A.

Bill Kent.

Bill Kent'

A.

Yes.

BY MR. OLSEN:

Who is Bill sens with now? Which department?

He is still with the DDo.

BY MR. MANFREDI:

Western Hemisphere Division?

No. He is on one of the staffs. Ile is on the - I

think Career Management Group Staff.

0 .

Is he officed near you?

A.

No. He is rown in the basement.

BY MR. OLSEN:

Do the Agency files reveal who the intermediaries were

that vere used to provide funds to the

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A.

Oh, ves.

-- to the Cuban movements?

Yes.

Do you know whehter - do you know the identity of any

of them in dew Orleans?

A.

No. No. Totaily unfamiliar with anything that took

llace in New Orleans.

I take it that Frank Sturgis was never an intermediary

for providing funds to the Cuban fronts?

The files that I have don't reflect it.

I think ve covered this already just a few minutes ago

but let me make sure that ie have got it on the record.

I understood vou to say that it was your impression in 1963

that large numbers of Cuban exiles, Cuban peopie in the southern

United States, talker about and believed that they were involved

'in the CIA sponsored activities. Is that true?

A.

That is richt.

Has it also your understanding and your impression

that there was a good deal of talk among this Cuban element in

the southern United States about plans or prospects for the

assassination of Fidel Castro?

À.

I would say no.

I don't think there was -- you have

got to remember that these

people were embittered. They lost

their homeland. their sossessions, they lost everything and theyi

blamed it all on one man.

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That is Fiedl Castrc?

A.

That is right, and they would probably verbally do

anything they could to get rid of him.

Was there a lot of talk about killing Castro among

these Cubans?

A.

I would say among the Cuban exiles there probably was

a lot of taik about that.

Did you participate vourself in the overhearing of

such conversations?

A.

No.

Was this a matter of something that was reported to

1=

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you?

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A.

• well, it was - I really don't remember what the

source of it was but I know in my discussions with people at the

Station and from mu visits down there and that type of thing

that this sunject always came up. That were they going to do

with Fidel? How are they doing to get rid of him and this type

of thing. I don't mean

the Agency people. This is what the

Cuban exile community was discussing.

Yes.

Agency in 1953?

Do you know what Howard liunt was doing for the

A.

Well, it seems to me he was here at Headquarters in

'53 and I think he was assigned to the European Division of the

DDP •

This is your best recollection --

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A.

Yes.

2

2.

-- at the noment. Is it possible that he was with

Domestic Operations Division in the field of proprietaries

engaged --

5

A.

I guess

you are right, ves. I believe he was there.

6

Did you personally know Howard Hunt?

7

A.

No.

Never met him?

8

A.

.I met hin.

That is all.

I can't say I know him.

10 1

You would not cave known anything about his where-

1a! abouts on any particular day, then. Is that true?

A.

Can we go off the record?

12 1

13 |

(Off the record discussion.)

THE WITNESS: Let's go back on the record.

14 :

BY MR. OLSEN:

15

I would like to have it on the record.

16

1?!!

A.

Do you have a particular day?

No. I am just asking vou if your acquanitance with

184

Hunt was such that you would have known of his whereabouts on

19

any particular day.

20

A.

"o.

21

as it very infrequently that you ever saw him?

22

A.

oh, I would see him in the halls, this type of thing,

23||

but - hump into hin nerhaps downtown on the street.

24

But you would have no occasion for. knowing from one

25

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day to the next where he was?

A.

No,

Q.

Have you ever conducted any kind of inquiry on behalf

of the Agency as to where he was on November ??, 1963?

A.

Yes.

A.

And hen did "nu conduct that inquiry?

I have done it twice that I recall and the most recent

one was I quess -- I am just trying to think. Nell, it wasn't

too long ago hecause ve did have an inquiry and ve obtained the !

time and the attendance secords from the office of Finance which

showed that Howard Hunt was on sick leave on that day.

Was this just fairly recently?

A.

Yes.

I understood from what files I have seen, Mr.

Sturbitts, that the only records that were available from the

Office of Finance showed that he had had nine hours of sick leave

during the two-week pay period ending the 23rd of November but

that the records were not available as to how much sick leave

or annual leave had been taken on any particular day.

A.

Well -

Am I mistaken?

A.

As I recall, he was in a duty status one day and a

sick leave status the next day and back to duty the next

day.

I would have to check that with my Budget and Fiscal Officer.

He is the chan that got that for me..

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Can you check that for us?

Sure.

And give us the results of that?

A.

Yes.

Because this is nuch more detailed information than

I have been previouly aware is available in the files of the

Agency.

A.

All right.

I will do that.

BY MR. MANFREDI:

Do you want to make a note of that?

A.

Let me have a piece of paper.

YOu might also want Mr. Sturbitts' phone number which

is 351-5106.

THE WITNESS: That was 22 November, right?

BY MR. MANFREDI:

That is the day.

made?

A.

A.

1963.

In response to whose inquiry was that investigation

I don't know. I would have to look that up, too.

I

don't recall exactly who asked for it. I don't know whether -

I will just have to check that. I don't know who it was.

And the date? Do you have any idea when you made the

inquiry?

No. But Ican

find out from the B and F guy, hopefully,

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You said there was a previous inquiry?

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A.

Yes. The previous inquiry came from Archie Roosevelt

who is now retired and was at that particular time the Chief of

European Division.

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D.

When was that inquiry received?

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A.

That was about a year ago, I guess.

. BY MR. OLSEN:

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.....

n.

About the first time these photographs began to be

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circulated?

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A.

Yes.

0.

About the bums in Dallas?

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A.

Yes, and actually I think this -- Archie's inquiry

13

came from some magazine or newspaper man in Europe. Archie was

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Chief,of Station, Loncion, for a long time and he apparently

=5

made a lot of acquaintances over there among the media.

16

This is something

you are relating to Der Sterm

1?

Magazine?

13

A.

That is right.

0.

19:

And did I understand you to say that in checking with

20

the Office of Finance that it was positively ascertained that

21

Hunt was on sick leave on November 22nd?

A.

22.

Well, I will have to check that. That is the way

23

I understood it but I did net this through our Budget people whol

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have the contact with the Office of Finance.

25

And that he was on annual leave the day before?

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A.

No. He was on a duty status the day before, on sick

leave, and then on duty status the following day.

BY MR. MANFREDI:

Was there any effort to determine what Mr. Hunt's

previous pattern with respect to sick days had veen?

A.

(Nors in negative)

BY MR. OLSEN:

0.

November 22, 1963, was a Friday. When you say that

records reveal that he was on a duty status the next day -

A.

It was a Friday.

Then I was mistaken.

Does that mean he was on duty the following Monday

or on the next day, Saturday?

A.

No. On the following Monday. I didn't realize the

22nd was a Friday.

Will vou check that thing for us and give us a brief

memo together with whatever supporting - copies of supporting

documents you can find?

" A.

Okay.

As prompely as possible on this question.

I think that covers the subject matter.

MR. MANFREDI: I can give you another moment if you want.

Can you think of anything else?

MR. OLSEN: I think that is all.

MR. MANFREDI: Okay. off the record.

(Off the record discussion)

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BY MR. MANFREDI:

2

I am sorry for the interruption but over the long

I think probably I saved you some time.

We are talking about newspaper editors when we were inte

rupted -- or when I invited the interruotion. I guess I ough

6

to be fair.

7

• Is it not a fact that the Agency had some relationship w:

8

some prominent newspaper officials

in the Miami area?

A.

Yes.

And what was the nature of that relationship?

Traditionally the Chief of Station maintained the

÷2

relationship with

officials of the Miami Herald, particularly !

=5

Latin American editor, as vell as relationships with staff

'members of it, I think it is the Miami News and stringers for

=5

he other newspapers

and periodicals stationed in Miami.

what was the purpose of those relationships?

I really

couldn't say what the prupose of the relation

is ship was. I mean, the same reason that ve establish a relation

= 3

ship with the press in this town. There were certain things that

might come to the attention of the press involving true names

2=

and incidents that we felt should perhaps not. be surfaced at any

particular time.

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Do you have any 'nowledge of use of the press in Miami

24

for propaganda purposes?

A.

No. No.

25:

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Would you know if that were the case?

A .

No. I really wouldn't know, but the relationship was

a two-way street. It wasn't simply that we assisted these

people as well as they were assigint us.

What assistance would you render for members of

the press in Miami?

A

Well, in the case of the Latin American editor

we would put him in contact with the Chiefs of Stations of

areas he periodically visited and the Chiets of Stations

would give him background briefings and this type of thing

on the developments within a given country.

Was that done evenhandedly for various newspapers?

A

Predominantly, I would say probably the Miami

Herald received probably a little more attention than the

other papers, principally because it was a large paper and

their Latin American editor traveled a great deal throughout

the Hemisphere.

Was he also used as a source?

No.

Do newspapermen in Washington, D.C., receive

similar briefings?

A

Yes.

We taiked with !ir.Olsen for a short period of time

about fronts, revolutionary fronts. How large were these

organizations?

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A

Well, the membership varied. As I said, we were

principally interested in the leadership of the organizations.

Once the organization was established and the leadership took

over, then they would take care of enlisting the, I guess,

getting membership irom the Cuban exile conmunity to join.

2

What were their functions, the sronts?

A

well, it was to bring some unity out of this chaotic:

thing of the splinter groups and get -- as I

said, it was a

political organization in exile.

Did they conduct any operations?

A

No, not that I know of.

Just ilke a political party?

Like a political party.

How many of these fronts were there?

A

There were several of them. I really don't remember

the names of them. The FRD was one. The Revolutionary

Democratic Front. I guess that was probably the biggest one.

And there were some others.

The RDE?

FRD.

I sée.

A

Front Revolutionary Democratic.

It is the

Democratic Revolutionary Front.

All right.

Are these groups still in existence?

A

I would thini: not. I really don't know.

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Is there a CIA station in Puerto Rico?

A

No. There was but there isn't any more. There

hasn't been one there for years.

When was it disbanded?

A

I think the station was established around 1958

and - perhaps it was established beiore that. I think it

went out of existence in 1958.

Do you inow why it went out of existence?

t1o, i don't.

¿ don't have any idea.

Do you now what function it was performing?

• A

(Hods in negative.)

2

You mentioned earlier that Bernard Barker worked

in the Cuban community for the CIA?

He worked with these fronts, too.

Was he performing any intelligence function in the

community?

Intelligence functions. Nell --

...

Was he collecting information?

sure. It be got information that he thought was

worthwhile he would pass it on.

Now, would he have been considered one of the three

or 500 persons empioved or assigned to the Miami Station?

Yes. He was a contract employee.

And vere intelligence requirements levied on such

contract

enployees?

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Normally, the requirements are pretty standard,

or they were at that time.

But here again, you always have

ad hoc type things that pop up from time to time, and have to

be surfaced.

Some of these contract employees were, then, in

the business of scilecting intelligence information in the

Cuban conmunities in Miami.

right.

Now, I think ie Finished with the AMOTS but can

you think of any other functions performed by the AMOTS that

we have not discussed in the course of the afternoon?

ito, not really. To.

I think you previously described them for me as the

eyes and ears into the Cuban community.

Right.

And they actually had a physical facility in Miami

which was their headquarters, did they not?

Exactly.

Ind there was à CIA Case Officer who managed to super-

vise that facility.

Yes.

Now, what has nappened to the AMOTS?

The AMOTS were cradually phased down and will go

out of existence - the AMOTS are out of existence, aren't

they? Isn't it the AMDUKES Of - these are the radio people.

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FOr NSA?

And the AMDUKES are the AMOTS?

The AlDUKES are AMOIS but they are radio people.

They are the ones that conducted the intercept

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Yes. The only reason we use two different names

is that in each of these things in those days we had to have

a project which had to be renewed every year to get the

funding.

SO AMDUKE

and AMOT --

A

Synonymous.

Q

- are criptonyms?

A

Yes.

Do the initials stand for anything other than

A

No. Just pick them out. If you want to encrypt

somebody you just cail downstairs and they give you a

crypt. You don't have

anything to do with it. The AM happened

atishat particular time to be the Cuban diograph.

Now, turning to the Miami Station's involvement for

assistance to the Secret Service in connection with the

political conventions in 1968

and 1972, would you briefly

describe for me the nature of the assistance provided by

the Agency to the Secret Service?

At the request of the Secret Service we conducted

name traces on individuals whom the Secret Service wanted

traced. These includedthe employees of all hotels in Miami

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Beach where any convention activities were to take place,

employees of catering services, linosine service, employees

in - what do they call it, the Civic Center in Miami. It

is a big auditorium down there. I forget what they call it.

Foreign news people and media, television, radio people.

Were these people on whom name traces were

requested

all foreign nationals?

All foreign nationals.

was there any check made to determine whether

any of them were American citizens?

We levied on the Secret Service as a requirement

that they have identified these people by nationality before

we would run a name trace. Inadvertently, at one time

they did submit a list, a rather long list of American citizens

which we promptly sent

back to them and told them we could

not trace.

And this practice was followed both in 1968 and

1972?

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That is right.

And where were these names traced?

They were traced back here and also in Miami.

The

Miami Station did their name

check and we did our name check

here. In the case of Cubans, probably the Miami Station had

more information on the Cubans than we would have back here.

But the names were traced through Agency files?

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Through Agency files.

Was Secret Service receiving cooperation from FBI

on this as well?

oh, yes.

And in effect, they were getting an all-Agency name

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check -

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Right.

- on people who might pose a security threat --

A

Yes.

.-- to a candidate?

well, they were just trying to determine who might

be a security threat..

That is right. Potential threat.

• A

Yes.

2

For what political parties -- strike that.

In 1968 was this service provided for both political

conventions?

Both political conventions.

Here they both held in Miami that year?

A

No. I guess it was in 1972 they were both held

there. I think it was just the Democratic in 1968.

These requests did come from the Secret Service

rather than --

From the Secret Service and it was -- the Director

of the Secret Service came to the DCI and asked him for

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support.

Do you

still maintain the records with respect o

that tracing activity?

A

I have

• all the names that have been traced.

And they are on

little cards down in your files?

yes.

Why have those records been maintained?

any reason those

records have been maintained?

Is there

A

Hell, because ve were told to maintain them when

the watergate thing broke.

2

I see.

A

And since then nobody will destroy anything.

OR. Are

you aware of any picketing at various

places in the country that has been conducted by Cuban

groups?

A

I was not aware of it until I was told of it.

I still don't know whether this was a spontaneous action on

the part of these people of whether they were instructed to

do it. I tried to run that down and I have been unable to.

At what locations has it been reported that pickets

were located?

Airline oifices in New York, Miami. I think another

place. I forget where it was.

Have you in fact been able to verify that these

persons were Cubans?

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A

Well, it is a matter of record in the AMOT history

that this indeed did take place. 'low, what I have been trying

to determine is whether the

On-Site Case Officer authorized

this, which I fully doubt.

Who was the On-Site Case Officer?

At that time it vas

a fellow by the name of Tony

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Sforza.

2

WARD & RAUL

Is he still alive?

Ies, he is down in Miami. But I just do not know

whether this was a unilateral action on the part of the

AMOTS against the countries that were then trading with

Cuba, notably Spain

and Creat Britain and France.

2

Other than this incident which we - strike that.

What kind of an investigation have you conducted?

A

I have taiked

to people, which is really all you

can do. There is no other way you can do it.

You have been unable to determine who, if anyone,

authorized this activity? Have you been able to identify

any of the persons who

participated in the picketing?

No.

with what frequency did this activity occur?

A

I don't have any idea. I only know of one instance.

This was in New York City?

New York City and Miami.

Do you know or any organized political activity that

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the AMOTS engaged in?

To my knowledge, they didn't engage in any.

Any political activity.

Do you know of any other activities that they have

conducted within this country, they of any of their members

have conducted within this country that we have not already

discussed this afternoon?

A

No.

2

Any political activities? Any operations?

No. Not really. Jf course, we

have used certain

select individuals to what we call hand-nold defectors, Cuban

defectors.

In other words, live with them until they are

resettled and this type of thing. And this is another activity

they engaged in. But other than that, I can't think of any-

thing else.

Do you know of any criminal activities that have

been attribited to

A

I nave heard of some allegations which have never

been prover.

What are the allegations?

The allegations concern break-ins and surveillances

and this type of thing.

--

Have those allegations been made with any fre-

quency?

well, I forget wno it was. It was during the

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105

Watergate trial. Some of

these allegations that came out

and I think they were carried in the Anderson column but we

made file checks and this type of thing. One

particular

activity was supposed to

have been carried out in Rockefeller

Center in New York and in turns out it was taken out of

context.

It was a training mission and -- training exercise.

These guys were being trained in surveillance in New York

and they were simply asted to go into a branch of the Manhatta!

- Chase Manhattan and is come back out and then they were

supposed to diagram the layout of the bank. And this to some

of them meant casing the sank when in fact it was just a

memory exercise.

With what frequency were those kinds of training

exercises conducted?

Well, whenever there was an - whenever it was felt

that these people, selected individuals, were to be trained

in trade craît.

?

And did cheir zade craft training include such

things as surveillance?

Sure.

And break-ins?

No. Not break-ins. Nor surreptitious entry. As

said, in the case of this particular thing, it was misinter-

preted as casing the bant:. These exercises were given - they

could have walked into your office, your outer office and

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said -- the instructor could have said two hours later tell

me what is in that outer office? What is the layout of it?

This is just for observation.

You stated earlier none of those allegations have

been proven. Have any of them been proved to your

satisfaction?

A

No. Ithink we disproved them to my satisfaction.

2

I take it you do not believe they took place other

than the training exercise?

oh, no. "o. I don't believe they did.

2

Do you know of any instances where members of that

group have broken in,

made any other type of illegal entry

in this country?

NO.

Have you ever been present at any discussions of

the legality or illegality of maintaining stations like the

liami Station within this country?

Legality? o.

How about the propriety?

well, to my knowledge, that really never came up.

No one to my knowledge, has

ever questioned the legality o

the propriety of having the

Station.

There have been some allegations in the press and

elsewhere about possible misuse of Cuban exiles, members

of

that community, by the CIA. Are you aware of those?

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No.

2

We received some correspondence and I have seen some

articles that suggest that the Cuban community is sort of

a resource that is occasionail? tapped by the CIA for various

operations in this country.

You mean this country?

Yes. Picketing was one example. There were also some!

other examples of unusual activities. Do you have any knowledge

of use by the CIA of Cuban nationals or exiles for any type

of operation within this country?

No.

2

Do you know whether or not the Agency has provided

any #¿nancial support for Cuban businessmen in this country?

No. Not to my knowledge.

Other than the maintenance of cover?

iTo.

Establishment of businesses?

NO.

2

No?

No..

In the course of our discussions today ve discussed

the: AMOTS, the AMDUKES, various politicai front groups,

revolutionary front groups. Are there any other emigre,

Cuban emigre groups in the

Miami area which have been supported

by the Agency, either financially or otherwise?

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Not to my knowledge.

Are you familiar with the appendix that was attached

to Mr. Colby?s statement?

A

Yes.

Did you have some role in drafting that?

You mean the Miami Station thing?

2

Appendix J, entitled, "The Miami Station".

A

Yes.

2

you wrote it?

Yes.

2

It has a familiar ving about it. There are references

to indigenous organizations, emigre organizations. Are

there any others other than the ones ve have been discussing?

Not to my knowledge.

There are, you know, if you

ant, to.. call: it an organization, ve did, you know, subsidize

the hell'out of Juanita Castro.

2

Yes, I am faniliar vith that.

jou are familiar with all that and that is by the

board now,.too.

She was. doing

A

Propaganda.

- propaganda broadcasts..

Yes.

Do you have any personal knowledge of what kind of

intelligence-gathering activities are conducted in the liami

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area now by the Miami Station?

There are no domestic activities at all in the

Miami Station. All Cuban activities have been moved back

here to Headquarters. The iami Station now is completely

and solely involved in the intelligence in the Caribbean.

Does the liami Station - I beg your pardon --

does the Headquarters component that now handles the Cuban

situation in Miami run any agents in the Cuban community?

No. Well, let ze explain that to you. He do have

a career agent who has been with us for a good many years

in Miami and we do use nir to contact relatives of Cubans

who are still in Cuba. I mean, relatives who are in the u.s.

who have relatives in Cuba.

Now, this is done principally with the idea of a

recruitment target, determine weaknesses or strengths,

this

type of thing. lle does contact these people all over the

United States. If we come soross an individual that looks like

he might be recruitable, of perhaps we could even double him,

ve will, after we make our preliminary assessment, and we

find out where relatives aná these types of people are, we

will ask this career agent or instruct him to go contact

these people, be it New yor:, New Jersey, Chicago, or what-

ever.

So you use Cuban, now citizens or aliens in this

country, as access agents.

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Right.

Just like foreign associates would do.

A

Exactly.

Are there any more people like Bernard Barker who

are contract employees

of the Agency who still work in the

liani-Cuban community?

10. None.

That entire apparatus has been --

ias been dismantled.

-- dismantled.

"that is the current size of the

Miami Station?

A ' I really don't know but it runs between 1l and 14,

as far as I know. I think it will be ll by the next fiscal

year.

MR. MANFREDI: Uff the record:

(Discussion off the record.)

MR. MANFREDI: Let's go back on the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI:

There are presently no Cuban Ops being conducted out

io. All Cuban Ops. are being conducted out of

deadquarters.

2

And even from the leadquarters location there are

no paramilitary operations?

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No covert -- well, there is some propaganda activity

being conducted still?

A

On a very small scale, and the covert action facility

that we had, the radio, taped program, is being terminated

by 30 June.

So for all practical purposes, it is terminated

now.

The Miami Station is under official cover.

A

Yes.

2

And it has been decreased to how many people?

A

Between i1 and 14.

And it has absolutely no responsibilities with

respect to Cuba?

A

Absolutely none.

And its responsibilities are entirely directed to

Other Latin American countries?

To Caribbean countries.

Caribbean countries. And I trust that there are

other Agency stations in the Caribbean?

A

Yes.

well, I have no further questions, Mr. Sturbitts.

If you have anything you would like to add you are welcome

to do s0.

No, I have nothing.

I want to thank you on behalf of myself and the

Commission for your cooperation.

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Sure.

I am sorry me had to take so much of your time.

That is all right.

Thank you again.

(Whereupon, at 3:35 o'clock p.m., the taking of the

deposition was concluded.)

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