Originator: CIA
Document date: 1976-06-25 00:00:00
Document type: NOTES

# DOCID-32264840

## Page 1

JFK Assassination System

Identification Form

Agency Information

Date:

10/13/20

AGENCY: HSCA

RECORD NUMBER: 180-10112-10466

RECORD SERIES: NUMBERED FILES

AGENCY FILE NUMBER:

•015106

Document Information

ORIGINATOR:

CIA

FROM:

TO:

TITLE:

Heleased under the John F. Kennedy

issassination Records Collection Act of

1992 (44 USC 2107 Note). Case# Nw

56000 Date: 11-04-2021

DATE: 06/25/1976

PAGES:

25

SUBJECTS:

ANTI-CASTRO ACTIVITIES

STURGIS, FRANK, BACKGROUND

CIA, INTELLIGENCE

DOCUMENT TYPE: NOTES

CLASSIFICATION:

Unclassified

RESTRICTIONS:

3

CURRENT STATUS :

Redact

DATE OF LAST REVIEW: 01/01/2003

OPENING CRITERIA:

COMMENTS:

NOTES FROM 6-25-76 - 9/21/77. BOX 296.

NW 66000 Docid:32264840 Page 1

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## Page 2

* Fonzi

Notes - call from Frank Sturgis

6/25/76

He just ran across a friend of his who used to be an agent, in

communications, and & he "revived" his mind on something that

he "completely

forgot."

(He

had previously told me that he

had lost almost all his notes from

his adventures in the

intelligence business, which explains why he hadn't remembered

this before. )

He reminded me he told me that he had been sent to Washington

by a group of key men

in Castro's inner circle and told to

give some secret documents and lists of names to Hoover, personally.

(sturgis didn't tell me this, but Pedro Diaz-Lanz -- the guy who

came out with Sturgis and was head of Castro's Air Force -- told

someone the list contained the

names of Cuban exile double agents.

At the top of the list, says Diaz-Lanz, was Artime's name.)

Sturgis says he never

did get to see Hoover but he did see his

personal secretary..

He says he was sent to Hoover directly

because the insiders didn't trust

the. American Embassy.

He belleves the Rockefeller Commission

and the Watergate Commission

has testimony from his about plots agamast castro, but he couldn't

get an OK to assassinate a*a*& Castro because of the Eisenhower

administration.

One of the people that sturgis says he was in touch with here,

besides thalia the CIA, was Al

Tarabochia.

He was in touch

with Tarabbohia at this particular time, and therefore Tarabochia

would know of this incident:

There was a meeting

in Cuba bout two, two and half months

before the Kennedy assassination.

There were a

number of

high-rakking rebel officers present: Ee Fidel, Raul, Che,

•the chief of GR (can't remember his namel, a man who was called

"El Mexicano,"

several other people, a woman... and Jack Ruby.

The meeting was in Havana. One of the rebel officers present was

sa half-brother sa of a Cuban exile living in Miami.

After the

JFK assassination, the officer sent a letter to his half brother

telling of the meeting, the discussion to assassinate JFK and

the presence of Jack Ruby. He smuggled the letter out, probably

ithhough Mexico.

The deal

was that Castro would supply Ruby with a flow of drugs.

Ruby would get the money

to buy the

drugs by being given the

winning number in the bolito drawing.

That's how Ruby would

be

paid off..

When Cuban exile got letter some ClA agents found out about it, but

kbefore they

could get it from him, he

made contact with the FBl here

in Miami

and he turned over the letter to agents from the Mlami: FBI

office.

They advised him that it was a very delicate situation and

not tell anyone about it.

NW 66000 Docld:32264840 Page 2

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## Page 3

2

Sturgis doesn't know name of Cuban exile, but he worked in a factory

in. Miami or Hialeah. He's going to try to find out, he's checking

on it now.

The friend he ran into, the guy with the company, was the one who

told him Tarabochia had this information.

sturgis

says

the background is this:

Ruby had gone to Cuba many

times and while he was there he was

trying to get some action

because

"Mcwillie was a

friend of his, as you know." (NOTE: In

interview with Canfield in Coup d'tat

sturgis has

a tough time

remembering who Mcwillie is. page 243). This is where Ruby

probably thought a up the idea of making a deal with Castro.

"We all know he had criminal connections." There should be

some record of his trip through the American Embassy in

Mexico City of his trip to Cuba through there. "But this could

have been a secret der trip he went on,

on the other hand, if

he was involved an in an assassination. "

He doesn't know how long after the assassination the Cuban exile

got the letter from his half-brother..

(1+ probably came via Mexico)

Sturgis: "This

man here like to had a shit hemorrhage."

(Coincidence?:: From Robert Morrow's Betrayal: "Not to be vulgar,"

I thought aloud, "but he'll have

a shit hemorrhage."

Morrow was

speaking of Castro's

reaction to his counterfeet operation.)

11 asked him about Crile's piece in

the Wash. Post re the Castro-

Trafficante relationship)

sturgis says that's news to him. But he doesn't believe it

because Castro kicked.out the mob and Lansky and Trafficante

lost their casinos.

"I told Santos one

day, I said,

¡Santos,

I just *e*xa left a meeting with Castro and

he ordered me to

close down the casinos for 10 days."

And he did. Sturgis was

put in charge of casinos for a while by fastro.

sturgis believes it that was the case, that would make Aleman an

agent for Castro also. But if he did make contact with Trafficante

it was through Rolando Martinez, because he knew Trafficante

very well, he used to work for the Havana Milton, so he knows

all *e the mob people, "He knows them as well as.

I do."

Aleman and Martinez are xaxyata very close friends.

Barker got fired from the ClA because of his connections with

the

racket people.

NW 66000. Docld:32264840 Page 3

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## Page 4

Sturgis - 6/30/76 - tatel

-- says Tarabochia should

remember Castro-Ruby incident because

"I know theClA agent, or former agent, who told him about it.".

-thinks the woman he mentioned as being

at the meeting was Tanya,

Che's secretary who was killed with him

Bolivia..

-also trying to get

name of Cuban exile in

Miami who received

letter

--his ex-ClA friend

spoke to Tarabochia about it at the time and

perhaps Tarabochia sa should have

it on

record...

...it

should

alsob be part of the

FBI

files

in Washington, along

with the original

letter...

-ClA should have a report in too, "We sent the report in."

* **

--re Cellula Fantasma: (Was that Company operation or Naval

Intelligence operation?),

"No, Company operation." The people

who were involved, in

that were Dr. Louis Conte-Aquerra (sp?);

he asked my assistance and l went to see my CO, who was

Sam Jenis.

Conte-Aquerra was associated with the Company and

they came

to me because they knew

was about the a only one

who could do successful air operations.

So they asked

me

if I would do a series of five air operations and l said, certainly,

I would...

cre l heard of the relationship at of Jukio Lobo and his

anti-Castro activity.

understand Bill Attwood went down

to interview him and...

"Well, Bill was with the company.

...

No, wait a minute, wait

a minute.. Attwood,

Attwood...

forget... I think he was.

with

the company... I'm not sure offhand...I didn't know all the agents."

(Wasnit it Rojas in charge of Cellula Fantasma?) Conte-Aquerra

was the big man on it.

He's the one who arranged for the

financing

for the people that l would do the operation for..

As a matter of fact, l went on three of them myself..l couldn't

get the cubans to do it sol used Americans. One of

the pidots

swas Bill Johnson..)

(What was Rojas' role?)

I didn't fool around with. Rojas.

You know,

there was a movement within ClA which

told conte-Aquerra

that he

was going to be a big official in the new government.

And many of

the agents who were

also going

to get

positions went

along with

the idea that conte Aquerra would be the president of the new cuba.

And

he was being

financed through

his own ClA contacts to do a

series of these operations

(How does Lobo fit in?)

Well, Julio gave money.

He was

working

also with ClA.

He was giving

money which he was taking off. income

tax and so forth.

This was the way what you'd call 'washigg" money.

This is how ClA would wash money through different Cuban business

people--and American businessmen--which wouldn't lead directly

to the ClA. Julio Lobo was one of the people.

NW 66000 Docld:32264840 Page 4

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## Page 5

2

(Were you dealing with him much?) Well, I worked with him, but

I wasn't dealing directly with him because he wasn't connected

with t ther

people

associated with.

He was more with

the economic section, you

know, that certain officials

dealt with.

(You met him here in Miami or Havana?)

In Havana. But I didn't

have any

& dealings with

him because, you know, certain people..

worked with certain people.

It was the thing that you call

compartmentation, you know.

They dealt with didferent people in different ways. Just like

Tony Verona.

He was a ClA agent. He not only was one of the

leaders, he was an agent per se.

And even today Manolo Artime

is still an agent.

He wasn't then but he is today..

He's still

with them.

You know he was the civil coordinator between the

Revolutionary Junta and the Bay of Pigs...

(mentioned Gerald Shamma and her Artime story) Heh heh bah, she

told you that story, eh. I wish

hadn't told you that sodry,

heh heh

heh.

Artime: "When he came back from. Cuba, they made him a businessman,

they

made him a very wealthy man.

I think he's got a little

problem with Semoza now,

but he was working closely with him.

**But if you're with the right people they don't give a shit

what you did, as long as they control you. The ClA got some

shits of the world working for them.

The Agency slammed the door on all four of us when we got

out of prison. Colby sent orders out to all stations not

to talk to us or have any contact with us.

But it makes no

**difference to me, if I need to get to them l go through other

people..

But,

hey, that's the name of the game, l guess.

When you get

into the.

big

league stuff with the poweraul people up

in Washington

or Langley,. if the wrong group of people are in control and you're

not in

that league, they can hurt you. And right now the wrong

group is up there.

Have been since Colby's been up there.

got his own

people and l'm not one of them."

"Looks like they're getting ready to hang & Lucien Conein) Well,

you know, Howard knew him very well.

Evidentally,

he's been

involved

in some things and they don't want to let it come out.

But there's a lot of shit Colby has been involved

in and he comes

out smedling like

a rose" Evidentally, he [Conein] is in bard bad

with the wrong

people. Colby cleaned house and put his own

people

in theeear and

what they do is use people for sacrificial lambs...

like they did us in Watergate... to take the heat off of them..

Howard himself didn't realize

that he was used and we in turn

worked with Howard and they buried all of us..

NW 66000. Docld: 32264840 Page 5

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## Page 6

3

But like l told you before, Bennett was the man who really did

a number on the President.

(Bennett of Mullens

Co.) And though

they closed house and withdrew all the agent that were overseas

working

for the & Mullens Co,

they re-opened a new company

and had to re-do

the agents

with the new

company...

I curious to find out where Bennett is right now.

(Howard Hughes connection) Oh yeah, they used him.

They let

him make a lot of money:

There's still a lot of places down

here especially that are still ClA fronts...

-remembered also that Castro's G2 at meeting name wash

Romero Valez...

NW 66000 Docld:32264840 Page 6

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## Page 7

-notes--call from

Frank Sturgis 7/28/76 -tatel

- said

he wasn't surprised by the Schweiker announcement of

running with Reagen:

"I think Schweiker's using this thing,

but, hey, you can't

blame him, he's a politician. The thing

worked out beautifully

for him." Then he asked:

"Is he still

officially investigating the JFK thing?"

I said, yes, he was

still

interested. After a

few minutes

of inconsequential

conversation,

he asked again: "Hey, let me

ask you something.

Are you still

checking up

on the JFK thing?"

I said, yes, 1

was.

Then

he said:

"I told you

about that letter from Cuba,

didn't 1?"

I said we

ae had checked up on it and that we had gotten a

memo

from

Tarabochia about it but

the memo said nothing about

Castro, although it did mention a trip to Cuba by Ruby.

He asked did the

report mention about the letter that came

to the relative in Miami, he said his friend "Salvatore" [the

former ClA man] told him definitely there was a ** letter

and that "Bob Dwyer probably was the man [the FBl agent], because:

he was in charge of the Cuban desk at the Bureau

downtown, was

probably one of the agents who picked up the letter."

I told him that Tarabochia's memo indicated only that Ruby

went to cuba, not that he had seen Castro, and that

the FBI

man was James d'Oonnor, not Dwyer.:.

sturgis asked. how we got

a copy of that memo and I told him I didn't know.

He implied

that perhaps it was changed or censured and I said that was

possible.

for all l knew, because l had never seen the original.

He then said that Ruby could have been to Cuba without people

knowing it, of course.

Sturgis then asked

me if I & had ever heard of Lyle Stuart.

said yes. he's the py

book ax publisher who has published

a lot of sensational and controversial books. "You know he

supposedly met Oswald

a month before Kennedy was assassinated

in Miami, according

to a report l'm trying to track down. "'"

Tonna in in to t

There's supposed to be something in the newspapers in 1963 before

Kennedy was killed about Oswald being in Miami, Sturgis said, and

he is going to the library to check up on that.

Lyle Stuart,

says Sturgis, was head of the Fair Play for Cuba

committee.

"It was also

reported

he was very pro-Castro and

that Castro was

supporting him financially

and that Lyle

Stuart was seen

with and connected with Oswald. And it was

reported in the papers that Oswald was here a month before

the

assassination.

Now

it may all

be bullshit but l'm still

aoing to

check

it out.'

sturgis said the

man

who told him this was a writer who was "pretty

much

involved" in the investigation

of the assassination.

• He was

with

him last night, and the guy said that Lyle stuart would be the

one to check

with.

The guy's name is Bob Traflins.

'i did ask him

* it it would be alright for him to talk with you."

At this time sturgis went to get Traimins phone number and in the

background I could

hear the television news which--coincidentally-

happened

just then

to announce

the news of Howard Hunt. filing the

$2-1/2 million libel suit against Weberman & Canfield. "Did you

hear that?" Sturgis asked, just to make sure.

NW 66000 Docld:32264840 Page 7

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## Page 8

2

What Ellis is doing," said Sturgis, "is to file Howard's now

and then by the we end of the week

or next week he's filing

mine.

Both Howard

and myself

are using Ellis." CEllis Rubin,

local controversial attorney

is most

known in

Miami for his

publicity ploys and long-standing

feud with. State Attorney (Dade Co.)

Richard Gerstein. J

Sturgis

said the suit nax would be against

the authors and publisher of Coup D'Etat.. and

against Playboy

and Hefner and later maybe against Dick Gregory ("As soon as

I dig up enough about him."

I said

libel suits are tough to

win.

"Yeah, but hey," said Sturgis [st. George was right: he

says "but

hey' a lot, even if we get a judgment for a dollar

it'll stop

all the shit about us

being involved in the the

assassination

of John F. Kennedy."

He asked if

I had a chance to speak with the Cuban who received

that letter.

I said no, I haven't had a chance because as a result

of his television appearances Wally Weston had come forth with

his information and I had

been busy on that.

"I spoke to

Wally Weston tonight, " said Sturgis, "and I have a meeting to

sit down and find out what he can

tell me and so forth."

Back on Oswald's meeting with Lyle Stuart, Sturgis said he

thinks it may have been

possible because there was a report that

he himself had met Oswald in Miami and that could have been very

possible, what with all the

anti-Castro people he met and the

double-agents, but he himself

didn't remember it. But he did

hear that stuart was connected with the Fair Play for Cuba

Committee and getting financial assistance from Cuba. "This

Bob Tralins was a friend of his

and dislikes the man very much,

but: he definitely told me this."

switching subjects, I asked him

what he knew about operations

that took place from Cay Sal island.

[the Hughes connection.]

All he knew, he said,

that there was

a black Customs official who

tried to keep people off the island because the ClA used it as

a stepping stone,

like a "listening post" off the coast of Cuba.

He himself didn't have any operations from there. "On some of...

the island close by there we stopped by occasionally for several

houss, but I kept away from Cay Sal because it was being operated

by other people, other aroups."

"They were ClA operations.

Eat was it cid or other operators?)

One time Barker got a hold of me because

was doing something, in

some operations with Bill Johnson which

was financing, and Barker got

hold of me and said, 'Rey, we're

doing something

stop

very sensitive

in

that area' and he asked me to

for a while and go into another area."

[Note: This is obviously

conflicting: Who was Sturgis

working for if not ClA? Here he became

very deliberately convoluting and wound up talking about Pinar de Rio

operations in Cuba.]

I asked him if he was involved in the trainina camp in New Orleans

winh Gus

Delabarre and Rudopth Davis: "No," he said

quickly. "Not

at all. I never knew about any training camp in Dallas.

New Orleans." INOTE: WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT DALLAS???]

NW 66000 Docld:32264840 Page 8

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## Page 9

3

I asked

him about the guy who was reportedly the head ClA

man

here, Mr. B, or Bender or his

supposedly "real"

name,

Drescher, and what he looked like.

"Oh, I don't know," he

said.

mean

I never met him. You've got to understand the

agents didn't talk to the contract employees, but there would

just be a telephone system of reporting.

The telephones were

connected by

relays so that if the FBl were checking the number

it would be located in one area but

it would just be a relay

station, so they could

never check it down."

sturgis

talked then about Schweiker and the Reagen situation and

I said I thought they would have a

tough fight on their hands

against Ford who, after all, has all the power. "l disagree

with you, " said sturgis. "'

think

the power is up there

and

they're advising him what to do.

He's being controlled, like

all Presidents are. Certain power groups control, you know

what I mean?"

He changed the subject and mentioned he had been out in California

last

week. He said he was invited

out by Chuck Ashman La former

Miamian who has a radio or TV talk show out there and has

written some exploitation books about the Mafia and the Clal.

Sturgis said he has Oscar Fraley lauthor of "The Untouchables")

who wants to do the story of his life. [Fraley's latest

book

is on Jimmy HoffaJ.

He said he has been trying to

get a hold of his ex-agent friend

(Salvatore) who told him about the Ruby in Havana story to get

more information but the quy is in the Domican Republic for

the week.

Sturgis then asked it it were possiblè to get a copy of the

Tarabochia memo and I said I would check on that

with my office.

The conversation got back on the ClA:

"The ClA is very funny," he

said..

"They do things right up to a point and then they turn right

around and screw you.

Depending what their policy is; If they

want to change it they'll change it and bury your ass

the last few years they've had their own internal, power strugale

and in that struggle a

lot of people at get hurt

who are decent

people. Like if I favor Howard Hunt and his boss gets whacked out:

then

everybody down the line goes.

That could go into hundreds or

couple thousand people.

Just like when Helms left..

I told you

that. Nixon wanted some

files

from

Helms

and Helms wouldn't give

it to him:

so the President fired

him.

Now

I'm assuming..from

my discussions with certain ClA officials fired now. the files

he wanted pertained to the Bay of Pigs and also the JFK assassination.

And Helms didn't to turn them over.

He was scared that if he

turned it over to the President,

that Haldeman

and Erlichman

would

have used it for political

reasons. And after Helms was

fired McCord turned

aax around and said, 'If Helms goes, all the

trees in the forest will fall!'

That's why McCord blew the

NW 66000 Docld:32264840 Page 9

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## Page 10

4

whistle on the President. Well, you know who Deep Throat was,

don't you?

I think Helms ordered Bennett to bury

Nixon.

Deep Throat was probably several guys, but the main man was

Bennett, the ClA man.

Unfortunately

poor Howard got sucked

into this thing, l don't think he even knew anything about it.

And Bennett was his boss, both at the Mullen company and,

I suspect, his ClA chiet

also. Oh yeah,: I believe certain

ClA officials, Helms the major one, set

up Nixon to be caught.

And the company's hot at me

because I told all this to the

Rockefeller and the Senate Watergate committees. But fuck'em,

they screwed me enough all these years.

Maybe Schweiker will

get to be the Vice Bresident and l'll get him to get

me

into ClA and 1'11 clean

that place up myself..."

And on that note....

NW 66000: Docld:32264840 Page 10

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## Page 11

-Notes -- call from Frank Sturgis w/

Ed Keiser.8/2/76

tate!

Says he's at a friend's house and this friend just

came back

from Israel.

He was in one of the big notorious prisons over

there, Romley (sp?) prison outside Tel

Aviv, the top security

prison where all the major captured terrorists are locked up..

... his friend is very much in

with the

American Jews in this

area and he had gone to Israel with the idea of trying to

help Israel as an undercover agent, to help infiltrate the

PLO.

He did that and came back with a lot of information.

sturgis told him he would try to get someone to talk with

him because he feels there is much information his friend

has that our government should be aare of,

since he made

friends and has a lot of connections now with the terrorist

leaders in prison.

He put himself in prison with the knowledge

of Israeli Intellengence.

"This guy has worked for me in the past and he's worked as

an undercover agent for several federal agencies.

He used to

be with

the French

Foreign Legion, the

guy is really a hot-shot

guy.

-- Name is Edwin Keiser

sturgis said he thought I might find

this guy's story of interest. "Whether it can be of any help

to you or Schweiker, I don't know. After all, your boy is

running for politics

now. "

I said I didn't know whether Schweiker would be interested

in

that information since it's really outside our subject area.

"You never can tell," said Sturgis, "you know how politicians

are.

If they

think

there's a little bit of something that they

might be able. to

use and Schweiker, I don't know what y kind of

religious background he's got but

that sounds. Jewish anyway."

I said

I wasn't

interested in the political aspects of any kind

of intelligence information and l didn't think Schwiker. was either.

"Well, why

don't you just say hello to my friend here anyway,!.

said Sturgis. "He's got an interesting backgoound, l've known.

him

for a number of years and he's good to know.

"Hell, Frank," I said,

"isn't there anybody you don't know?"

iSturgis laughed

said, "Well, there were some people I swear!

didn't know and l'd

like

to keep it that way. Ha, ha, ha, you know,

one of those things."

Ed Keiser got on the phone and said that his problem was that the

American Embassy in Israel, specifically the vice consul (whose

name is John Adams and who

is,

in

fact, chief of the ClA station),

told him

" That when he?

keiser, returned

to the ll.S. he would be

in touch with certain

people and now he

found that no one wants

to talk with him, because technically he's under arrest for having

left this country with

a xaxxe falsified passport.

He says he had lost his

citizenship back in the mid-50's, without

his knowledge of losing it, when axe he joined the txas

French

Foreign Legion. He says it

was taken away without a hearing or trial

and he has since found out that shouldn't have been done. He says,

however, he has never stopped fighting Communism and he has been

out of the country several times

since then on false passports.

NW 66000: Docld:32264840 Page 11

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## Page 12

2

This last time he went to Israel he went on a forged passport and

after a month and a half he gave himself up and agreed to work

undercover in the prison for the Israeli government.

He was

in Romley prison for five and a half months, including with

the 43 people they wanted to exchange on the hijacking program

in Uganda: all the top-ranking terrorists.. He xed left in

good standing with these terrorists, including the six jews

and 30 Arabs who had plotted to take over the Israeli government

who had come in out of Syria.

He dame back to the U.s. to be prosecuted, paroled to this

country by the Israeli government an an Es Israeli.

"I brought back quite a bit of information with me,"

he said.

For instance, he said, he was in prison with an American whose

father is a very big

man in the California movie business.

The

son

was arrested

for smuggling a half a ton of hashish, and

his family is dealing heavily here in

the States and in South

America with cocaine and other drugs...

The

Federal agents he's tax tried to talk with said they

can't talk with him because he's

under arrest dar

(for false

use of a

passport) and his case

is not resolved.

"It's really stupid," he says. "I'm carrying information around

with me, I supposed

to be in contact with intelligence over there

and carry on with what l was doing, and I can't even talk with

people in my own coumary to see if they want me to contineo.."

He was arrested by FBl here

after he arrived at

Kennedy airport,

after being deported by Israel.

They

put a $25,000 bond on i him

in New York and another 525,000 bond in

Miami.

They a brought him

here for prosecution

because

here's where he

falsified the passport.

He sags he was also subpoènaed

to Watergate when Frank was

involved

andthe brought up information that could have really helped

Frank,

the information

was taken but nothing

was done.

•"It was really a sad

thing,' he said."y think it was just used politically.

i had agents

in Cuba that were coming out of Havana who were willing to come here

and testify, but the Senate wouldn't

authorization to pick them up.

This

all went to Howard Baker and

his assistant Liebengood and

they didn't do anything.

I have but

one life to. live and l'll give it to my country, but l felt sour

about that.."

He said he was working with the Cubans here

in Miami for a while

after Watergate but

decided to go to Israel and fight communish

there "because those people are serious."

He says he effectively infiltrated the terrorist and Communist groups

within Israel prisons and he brought out important information but

now

"it seens

like my own country could care less about it."

He says he'd like to get the information primarily to: the ClA, especially

stuff about the & PLO. He says he has

pages of information which,

he dropped on the United Nations

"would blow the lid off." He wouldn't

do that, of course, without the authorization of his government; "But

I'm sitting

onag

keg of dynamite

here and I don't know why my

government is not at

least talking with me..: If they want to put me

jai!, put me jail, but at least first talk to me."

NW 66000 Docld:32264840 Page 12

---

## Page 13

3

He says his wife put up their house to raise money for his bond.

He says

he's being represented by a public defender because

he

cant afford an

attorney:

Edward G. Galante (305-350-4391)

He says he talked to people from DEA who say they're interested

in what I got and

to head of intelligence of U.s. Customs

(Steve Czukos) here in South Florida == but they all put him

off and he hasn't heard from any of them.

--meanwhile, he says he is supposed to get back in touch ait with

Israeli intelligence, he has a code and it

wax should have

been started a week ago, but he doesn't want to start it up

again without making our government aware of what he is going.

He says he also has agents with the Plo who are waiting now

in Rome for him and he has been putting that off too.

He says his attorney is talking about making a deal with the

government but he's not interested, he's interested only in

getting out the information he has...

"I think that the

information

I have has something

to do with

the security of this nation,

because. it has something to do

with the security of Israel."

He says just the information

he has on

drugs alone is valuable.

The guy he met in

prison who

was busted with

a half tone of

hash should be

out in two or three weeks and he's on he his

way back to California with a conspiracy he put together in

the Israeli prison..

Keiser says he's got knowledge of how

drugs

are coming in, who's arranging

for them, and who is

carrying them.

: He says the DEA told him they are interested but because he is

still on charges

and has a court case

pending, it is not. allowed

to talk with him or work. dex with him..

SHis home number is 832-3358.

He said: "It you can't get a hold of

ame, you can always get a hold of Frank and he'll know where l am

because

1 don't do

i hour it known o

anything without his knowledge anyway."

I told Keiser I don't

know what, if

anything, I could do about

his problem but that I would bring it to the attention of my office.

sturgis

than got on the line again and said that what Keiser forget

to

mention to

me is that he has

information that PLO leaders are

using

the drug

traffic to finance their terrorist operations.

NW 66000. Docld:32264840 Page 13

---

## Page 14

Sturgis

8/4/76

tatel

--asked if I contaeted the person who got the note from Cuba re

meeting of Castro and Ruby...

asked if l would give

him the ar

names and details again of the Tarabochia memo...

-- doesn't know the name of Pratkin or Paskin mentioned

in memo.

(Why would Ruby visit him?) Well, why would Ruby go visit

McWillie. You know McWillie was one of the big boys there...

so evidentally he had more than one connection... but

remember

when he went over there there were no more racket guys there,

so why would he go see this man?

--Trafficante came out, I think, in 60, when they closed the

casinos... that was after I came

out...l left in

June of *Ia8zxa58-

1959

-- the casinos were still operating..

(Could Trafficante have had a deal with Castro?) I doubt it.

Remember I closed the casinos for 10 days on Castro's orders.

There was

a big uproad.

I told Trafficante and

some of these

otherpeople, because l was in charge of the casinos for

the government, and I told them,

I says, I want to tell

yOu

something

for your own good,

Fidel has said that hasx he's going

to run

all the gangsters out of Cuba and take all their businesses.

On one

of my tours of the casinos l ran into santos and l told

santos, I said, I want to tell you something, if you see your

other friends

as of to is now,

I was in the prime ministers office with

Fidel and Didel said he's gonna nationalize all the American

businesses here and he 's goinna run you fuckin' gangsters out

of Cuba. ' And he says,

'Naah, he can't do that, we got over

a hundred million dollars in

investiments here! Who the fuck

does he think he is?! He was really hot. "That sunavatich

should be dead!'

Naah, he was an

enemy of Fidel's.

(What's behind Crile piece then?) I don't know. Crile took some

cracks at me. Well, I can't say that's wrong, because l don't

know, all I can say

is what happened to me and what I know.

But, let's face it, Martinez worked for the mob. He was working

the Havana Hilton when I met him in 1959 on the baccarat table.

-- Knows Aleman, not well. 'not buddy buddy with him like.i

THeRER:

never talked to him about this; "I'm

surprised Aleman came up with

that because one time Aleman borrowed

some money from Santos when

he needed it."

Trafficante kill JFK?.

"I don't think so, no, I don't think so. The

man most logically to want to kill JFK would

be that guy k in New

Orleans, whassisname, yeah Marcella.

He would be the logical one."

Surprised Aleman

said that.

"He's got

a lotta balls to say that

in the paper; exparka*tax but why didn't it come out down here?"

* *

But I don't know why Martinez t

is working with Barker. Barker is

a totten sunavabitch.

But one of these days l'll find

certain ClA agent wanted me to do a domestic assassimation. I wish

I bad

good memory to &x find out when it was asked me because that

would nail that sunnavabitch Co of the party, because as I understand

his Co was very leftist and considered

but l'll dig it out one of these days.."

NW 66000 Docld:32264840 Page 14

---

## Page 15

2

You know, Ambassador Smith called

william Caldwell, who was

chief of

ClA in Havana

in 1959, a "goddamn communist."

oh,

you don't know what

went.

on...

(Was there a Cogswell also?)

I don't know, l'11 have to check

some of my notes on

some of these things.

You know Paul Bethel

was there also, he was the press agent... that was a nice little

cover...yeah, he

was an

agent... he may be retired right now,

but l believe he's done

some

contract work for them off and on..

No, I can't believe that santos worked with Be Fidel, You know

I told you that they contacted me once, wanted me to kill fidel..

(Yeah, Norm Rothman asked you, didn't he?)

Опаха по, no,

no.

It was Hymie Levine and another party...but they had

alot of

connections with other people, besides me, who were constantly

with Fidel and if they wanted to nail him

they could have..:

Trafficante hangs out at Capra's (80th & Biscayne) when he's

in town... that's one of his people there.... 8 o'clock.

I haven't been there for years, but I know, l was told one

rime, It you ever

want

to see

me or something like that,

g'oclock, have spaghetti with

me, you know, we'll both hit,

but I don't go there, l don't mess

with him, I keep away

from zee mob...not my kind of people...

NW 66000 Docld:32264840 Page 15

---

## Page 16

sturgis 8/5/76

tatel

-asked if I spoke

to Barker or Martinez yet?

Crile wrote an

article

about me that didn't put me in a good

light.

Of

course, you

know me and Barker & are on the outs.

I don't like Barker... You know, I was gonna put Barker's

head through the wall xap in prison.

The sunavabitch

IS

a freakin!

coward.

I tried to get at him and four of the

prisoners grabbed

me

and he went into the corner like

goddamn baby, the sunavabitch.

But I'll fix his ass.

You know:l told the

Senate Watergate Committee that

one

ClA associate of mine asked me to do a domestic assassination,

and I told *e them it was Bernard Barker. Add I told them,

if you don't believe me,

give me a polygraph...And his

Co was a goddamn Communist bastard! (yells)

Because he

sure loved Fidel, even over here. But. I told Barker I wanted

the orders directly from theo because I wanted to make

sure I knew who the & people was...

I told Barker, if you're

co told you to contact me, then

want to see him...then

the co told him he didn't

se want me to

do it...

And I don't

know what year this was...

The Rockefeller Commission really

went into detail with me on that.

I told them, I says, well,

• 111 be honest with you, because

this is why l'm so mad at

these goddamn ClA officials.

They get you to do their dirty

work and after a while they throw you to the wolves, like

they did at the Watergate and... uhh, you know... uhhh.. so now

I'm down on them. Fuck em.

Well, whatayagonna do?

lasked him who Barker's CO was: talked

aroond it) Barker had

same Co

here as he had in Havana...

I forget who is CO was.,

because

an employee had various

types of agents: Barker and

Martinez were contract agents,. l was

not a contract agent, because

*****

I didn't sian a contract and l didn't swear to arrase secracy,

but I was a so-called field operator recruited by them to

work for them on a cash basis, for a

week or for months...but

I wasn't in the

same position

Barker and Martinez was...because

There were times here when they wanted me to turn in Cubans

making raids against Cuba and I said, Hell, you gotta be kiddin'

I'm

a goddamn

revolutionary! Just because you people are not

assisting Cubans

anymore,

I'm gonna turn

them in? Fuck you, l'm

not gonna

do it...

like l was very

close to Sam Jenis and his

whole a family, we were very close, very close, since 1956;

and I worked with that whole family, and two of the family members

were

ClA people, but they knew how I felt, they knew I would

never betray the cubans..

...this here David Phillips, he knocked the shit out of me on

televisoon, he said, "We

never did no assassination, and Sturgis

is full of

shit, he never had no association with.us, he never

was an agent!"

Well, fuck him: the sunavabitch, a week later

all the shit broke loose about

assassinations and all, and the

Gianncanna bit, and then admitted

on television that when he was

chief of

western hemisphere division, that he notified the Cuban

government--Castro!

-- through the Czechoslovakian embassy: when

Cuban groups were leaving the South Florida area to da go

to

Cuban and a do operations against him. Here's a man admitting

that he was betraying Cubans to.

be caught over there and executed!

NW 66000 Docld:32264840 Page 16

---

## Page 17

********

(1 heard a he was involved

in some Castro assassination attempts

that never came off)

"I'm gonna tell you

something.

Ithink it's a little game they

play.

I think the plots that they wanted us to do were simply

done

to go ahead and make certain

people think that they were

working.

But I think what they were doing all along, they were

really betraying us, you know

what I mean?

They have one

policy: Nail 'em, but behind the door stop it. The Cubans

had.a a force

here and they had this feeling against Castro, so

to pacify certain people who had

lot of influence here, they

had to pacify

them by saying, well, we're gonna do things, but

at the same

time they're doing the betrayal bullshit..

David Phillips convinced me

no long a t

And

that they had been doing this all

along, just betraying everyone, the American public and everyone..

(I hear he was pretty much involved in the Chilean thing also)

Who, Phillips? With the Allende thing? You better believe it!

11 asked him why did David Phillips have an interest in his

Cellula Fantasma operation,

as/ had heard he had?) I don't

know, he said, I really don't know..

Well, he was pretty high

up, you know.. (even in 61, 62?)

..well, yeah..."

Said the

quy in charge was Conte-Aquerra, he worked for the company, later

they sent him

to Europe on an economic mission...

"Then Diaz-Lanz

got

into

the picture, he was suppose

to take over the group,

and that's what started a

lot of problems.

We had a lot of

problems

and

I think this is where David Phillips came in, becaase

then

he started to get interested, you know, because of Pedro

Diaz Lanz coming into the group.

"I'm writing

a book.

1 sign a contract with Oscar Fraley this

Sunday."

on the Trujillo thing, and

Fraley will

do the book of his life, less the Trujillo thing..

-- talk to Pedro Diaz Lanz, that's how l got involved in the trujillo

thing.

And talk to him

about Artime. You Artime is still working

for the people.

Hexa He'll tell you Artime's an double agent.

Geraldine Shamma will tell you that also.. she hates him..

:(.Do, you see him much?) Not too much. When we were in prison, yeah.

But since l've been

out l've kept away from him.

'don't want a

goddamn thing to do with the company...

-- (About about Roselli?) I think they nailed him good. How do !

read it? Cuban agents.

But I leave

question mark.

I hate to

jump on something

else, really, but they're capable of doing

anything.

"Cause l did

a lot of dirty work for the sunavabitches,

believe

me, and they'll get people like me - because you know l

was considered one of the

most six dangerous men in thexxaxxax

country -- and they can get people like

me to do a lot of their

dirty work, you know what 1 mean, because it leaves their hands

clean and if they want to discredit you they can because they have

the force and the power, they got everything working for them...

** But l'll give them the benefft of the doubt, I don't think they

had anything to do with killing the President through. That

l'11 give

them the benefit of the doubt...

NW 66000 Docld:32264840 Page 17

---

## Page 18

sturgis

8/16/76 -

tatel

I had the FBl call me.

On the JFK stuff. They

said, well,

you made some statements on television andwe'd

Like

TO

get together with you.

Met them over at Denny's. It- was

about when I went to Calif. and was on TV out there

and made

certain statements about the meeting with Castro and Jack

Ruby

and

they wanted

to know about that... said Wash. calledthem..

agents.. Ben Conte and

???

...when I asked them

about the letter, they told me that

O'Connor had investigated that and that O'Connor was the

one who spoke withme

about the JFK.assassmadion.

But

they told they didn't know

anything about a

letter...

*** O'Connor now in New Orleans????

WSX0R

Hey did you read anything about four constables fron Dallas

who received a box of letters and documents pertaining toa

meeting between Oswald and Ruby and

so forht??

This box of

33 documents turned over to Dallas DA Henry Wade....???

...well, a friend of mine called me up last night and l

copied

dawn

some

shit on it...you

want to read you some

of this??? (is this frome clippings?) It may have

because he told me he got it out ofsore papers...

... they turned it over to the FBl. and they gave a number

and

now they

can't find the documents. Canyoubelieve that?

Just like they can't find the letter, they can't find the

documents...

..You never got a ahold of Salvadore, did you?

(You never gave

me his name)

I did,

I gave you his

phone number but he told me he wouldn't talk toyou, schweiker!s

man..

Salvadore Garcia - former ClA guy... says he doesn't like

Schweiker.

The & FBI guys also asked me

about Roselli.

I told them

I didn't believe I knew Roselli.

I told them I know nothing

about it... They asked me

what I thought, I said I Hought the

mob got rid of him.. they're always fightingamong: temselves..

(re Crile

pieces) I don't believe it.

I don't think Trafficante

had anything to do with

it.

I don't

believe a quy like Trafficante

could

go ahead and do something like that on his own,

he would

have to get

permission from the Commission, and l don't believe

the commission would allow him to do something

like that. They

tried it once before with Anastasia.

Anastasia wanted totake

over some of the gambling in Havana and the Commission said no.

What happened, he went against the commission's orders And

Look what happened to him.. The same thing happened to Dutch

Schultz who wanted to knock off Tom Dewey.

I can't see it.

don't think the mob would want that kind ofcatastrophe to happe

to kill the president.

NW 66000 Docld:32264840 Page 18

---

## Page 19

(re the Rolling

Stone piece and Trafficante relation tothe

Bay of Pigs and

his contatet in that operation, Fs)

(Laughed) Was that

in Rolling Stone?

You

know, I'm trying to

get my

lawyers to sue them sunavabitches for about $20 million.

Well, you know the mob was here on the Beach. And remember

I told you how in Cuba the Embassy was divided and how smith

even accused Caldwell,

the chief of station

of ClA, of being

a communist because all his agents were feeding information

to the guerillas

and Castro...

And here you have the mob

over there, all these cubans who were working for the mob

over there,

they came over here and the ClA made agents out

of them!

So, hey, the

mob knew everything was going on...

You know, you

had

Normie Rothman who had the Biltmore Terrace,

which was Batista's money, the top floor over there was

going to house Batista if

the government gave me him permission

to come into thecountry.. Now that place was the hang out

of a lot of mob people..a lot.. and

a lot of Cuban ClA boys

used to work for Batista.

•and alos intelligence agents

from other countries would

come

in

there...and

the American

ClA agents used to go wine and

dine there, used to have

a ball there

..and as far as

I'm concerned, l don't have contact x*ix with

Santos Trafficante here and I

don't have any contact with the

mob

(re Watley's statement of Sturgis contact with Trafficante)

Well,

I don't

know how Richard Waatley can goahead and

say shit like that because that's garbaxge....That is

garbage!

(Who was Whatley?):

*Whatley was one of these mercenaries who used

to fool

around with this ferry Patrick, trying to get involved

with the Cuban

exiles...

You know, when I came out of cuba they came

of wild stories that

I was the contact between

up

withall sorts

the mob and

the

ClA... that'a all bullshit

-re a conflict of interest. on Ellis Rubin part because of suit

with Hunt and him against CREEß (???)

.. But l'm going to Washington anyway tomorrow.. Yeah, I told you

that Senator Baker wanted to

see me..yeah, they called me,

Michael Madigan

and Howard Liebengood called me, they sayd,

come on up, we'd like to talk

TO

you about this JFk shit.

Yeah, I was

surprised....

(re Martinez working at Havana

Hilton. and Crile saying no)

That's bullshit.

That's where I met Martinez when

/ was

working for the embassy.

I told that to the Senate Watergate

Committee when they

asked me...(why) Well, because Martinez has

been working on $100 month retainer for the ClA and

he has probably

dug up a lot of information for the company and writing thebook

with Crile and talking about Trafficante and Aleman, so naturally

the ClA don't want anybody to know there was any connection.. He's

not goxax going to admit he worked for the baba gamblers..

met him. at the Havana Hilton working on the baccarat table..

(fairly well off?) Yeah, he did abortions, he had a whore house

over there...yeah, he was pretty well off...

NW 66000 Docld:32264840 Page 19

---

## Page 20

3

(re WerBell trial) Yeah, you know I recruited the undercover

agent that got Bernstine..Jerry

Buchanan...

I got a hold

of the company first because it was out of the country,

because they have a drug..you know,, thing, but they

slammed the door on me when

on me shen

I contacted them...l even

had to go to Washington for the damn

thing...so l got a

hold of other friends of mine and they made

the conneetion..

that's how Jerry was recruited... and he made out pretty good,

they busted one of the biggest international dur drug

conspiracies in

the country....

and Bernstine turns around

and he starts to work for the government..

(undercover?) Buchanan got involved up to his eyeballs with

Bernstine... I don't know how

he made the connection...

(Bernstine involved

in Bay of Pigs?) I think that's all

bulsshit...

(Bernstine crash an accident?) No, I think somebody killed him.

He's too good a pia pilot...

(WerBell) Well, he'as a friend of my old friend Andrew st.

George.

and I think maybe Andy has helped bury WerBell a little

bit...

I swear to God, you can't even trust your friends

nowadays....

NW 66000 Docld:32264840. Page 20

---

## Page 21

reAT

-notes -- Frank Sturgis - tatel - 4/18/77

(partial)

(get any reaction from the New Times piece? Came dronnie heavy

on CIA..any reaction from them?)

No, except David Phillips, you know every time he gets a chance

he wacks me.

Because I made a big liar out of him..

Hax You

know when I

was in frint of tee Rockefeller Commission, I spent

16 hours with them, they went over very much with me on the

JFK stuff and the mob stuff and CIA assassinatirn plots and

all this

* stuff and everything started to leak out. Then

David Phillips came at out and started wacking me.

Then I

got mad and I

said, Fuck them, the hell with them, I'll just

tell the truth! And that's when I said, Yeah, damn right,

I been in txan touch with them, I was associated with them!"

That's when David Phillips went on television and started

knocking

me,

saying I was never an agent.

I never told anyone

I waS.

I said I was associated with them. But the truth is

I was

recruited by them, because it's on record.

It's in CIA

records

(Did you ever meet Phillips in Havana?) I don't know. This

is the problem.

I don't

You know my contact man nade

CO I was working with, was Colonel Nichols. And Nichols

Major Van Horn working with him..

And I met a few other CIA

guys but I had never any contact with because the rest was

strictly telephone.

You know when you make contact with

an agent, an emplovee, and you are directly in contact with

they'Il sive you a code name and

someteing happens where teey have

to leave, well,

they'll give you a number

and they'll tell you that this man hexaxex here, so and so,

will contact you, and this is the number.

Then

he disappears

and then it's strictly telephone. You never really in touch

with one another, after the first shot, after your first man

leaves.

...Just like Barker. Barker met Hunt only one time. When he

was

turned over to Hunt...'cause lioward told me thi'...I said,

How many times did Barker ever meet you? He says, Well, one

time.

Xxx&xux His man, who Barker was in touch

with in Havana,

when

he came over

here, he says, he turned Barker over to me,

I needed

an assistant,

has he says, 50 he turned Barker over

to

me, I met him one time and then after that we checked by

telephone, the normal way of contact.

He says

after that when

I left, I

turned Barker over to somebody else, he said.

It all depends on the situation you're in. Like Martinez, he was

in maritime operations and so forth. Well, when you're in

maritime

operations you come in direct contact with one or more CIA CO's

at one time....las a result of working on a ship where CIA officials

xe are six restricted in their movements].. in maritime you have

more personal

contact with them, because thep stay with the nahrer

mother ship...

(why is Phillips on your back?) Becaase I told the Committee that

the CIA helped Fidel. The Communists were out to kill Fidel at the

NW 66000 Docld:32264840 Page 21

---

## Page 22

2

very beginning when we came out of the mountains. When

Ambassador Smith asked the CIA the background of the Castro

brothers and his top military officials, the Cia

they had no communist background. Well, the FBI in the Embassy

was given all the information on the Castru brothers informatoon.

the CIA wouldn't give Smith the correct intelligence

So Cardwll, William Cardwell, was the CIA station & chief and

Smite called Cardwell noteing but a fuckin communist. He said

of tee agents that work for me here are noteing but

pro-communist bastards.

That's why CIA had Smith removed

througe pressure in Washington.

And Jim Knowles was another

one of them.

He was later Barker's CO here, and that sunavabitch

was way to the left.

(when was Knowles Barker's CO here?) Right after Hunt. You

see,

Hunt left a week before the invasion. Jim Knowles got tr

be Barker's next political officer.. Hunt went back up to

one back hes got er

Washington and was in the Cuban desk, and the man... remember

Hunt was a political officer...and Hunt was transferred from

the politicad office tr work with David Phillips, who was

propaganda...

(When was Bender here?)

Frank Bender?, He was here before,

during and after the Bay of Pigs. He's a queer sunavabitch.

2

(Wasn't he Barker's CO?) No! Bender? No! Bender was

over-all chief of CIA here for the poliitcal section. That's

old Droller.

He was

German born...and he was faggot too.

No, he wasn't Barker's Co.

Barker's CO was Hunt and teen

it was Jim Knowles.

Knowles worked under Bender, just

like Hunt...

[Not Knowles -- KNOEL; Droller also called DRESCHER..•)

(Don't know where Droller is now; may be retired; he's a few

years older than Hunt..)

(RE PRIO); under gin financial pressure recently; wife only allotted

him $1000 a month; he snorted Coke for years;

only those close tr

him knew how much

business pressure he was under..***I asked a

friend of mine who was close what happened..."

(Duran???]

No, he wasn't involved in narcotics...only yeass ago back

Batista's day, everybody was then..but all he did now was

sniff

coke...has all his life...

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## Page 23

Frank Sturgis - notes - 9121/77

fre

Lorenz story)

(Had

you

known

she

was going to break this?)

No!

I got a call Monday night, tonight's Wednesday, right?,.from

Paul Meskil, and Paul

told me, he says, "Frank, Merita gave me

something and I wanted you to ae

know

about it and I want your

comments on it." I says, "Shoot."

He says,

"You know, she has

made

statements and

gave it to us and my editor is thinking

about putting

it in

the

papers."

So! says,

"What is it?"

He says,

"Well, she claims, she says, you know, this, this

and this about

Alex Rorke and some pictures somewheres in

a training camp, l suppose,

you know, and

pictures of you,

Daaz Lanz, I think she mentioned Diaz Lanz, l'm not sure,

well

anyway, me, Oswald and so forth.

So'l says, "Oh yeah, what else?"

And he

says we had some maps out with a

couple of Cubans,

Pedro Diaz Lanz, yBurself, Oswald, and it had D*arxax Dallas,

and that we were, we all

got into two automobiles and we drove

to Dallas a couple days, a few days, whatever, before the

assassination, and that

we went there, and that we were members

of Operation

40, and that we went there specifically to go

ahead

and kill the President of the United States:

I says, "She's got to be out of her goddamn mind! She's gotta

be whacko to say shit like that!.. How the hell can she prove

this?

I says, I volunteered, like you know with the ork

assassination, to take a polygraph. I says, l'll do the same

goddamn thing

nOw!

That shels lving.".

So ha says something about supposedly the two pictures

that she had, one was missing with some German girl who was

supposed

to write her book....

(Had she ever mentioned this to you before?) Not a thing

about that.

You know, my own opinion, she's been messing

raround with these gangsters.

And yank you know, the father

of one of her kids is a very wealthy

man,

owns

some race horses

and stuff like that, a lewish guy, and he's a loan shark for

the mob. (know

his name?)

Ed something.

/ think maybe him

or the other to guy might have pushed her, because she's always

hitching that she needs money, and I think maybe more or less

they busted her balls and said, hey look, you want cash for

your book, this and that, you gotta k get something spectacular,

-you know, they always came up with some goddamn mob lawyers

:for

her to handle her book and so forth, and you know, she's

a little whacko.

This is the conclusion l come to, but I don't

know what's behind

her mind to do this, because, hey, we're

friends, but, christ, with something like this,

she

s actually

getting hers&ét, and

Pedro and myself involved

in killing

the President!

She's gotta

be out of her goddamn mind!

Swas she in Miami at that time, in November. of '63?)

"I can't remember that

siday that kennedy got killed i was here

All 1 know is, like l told you, the

in the house. It beats the

*hell out of

me, I can't get remember that long if she was here

at the time.

Merola= patt Melane-CIA

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## Page 24

2

"Well, you

know, too, she was Perez Jimenez's mistréss.

And Perez Jimenez was giving some of the Cuban people

And also in New Orleans, with money

so. forth.

And she told me, at one time, that possibility at one

time that Jimenez wanted to do something against the

Kennedys.

Now I don't know who she meant, weether it

was the President or Bobby Kennedy or what, l don't

know,

but it's something she told me this pasgee year

I was up in New York.

How true it is, I don't know.":

(Did

Jimenez have a lot of money when he was here?)

Shit, yeah.

He lived on one of the island here,

kept her

in a fancy apartment because you know she had

baby by

Jimenez, a girl, and she's a split image of jimenez.

And he

was involved in all kind of bullshit, Jimenez was.

But who knows whether it's true.

The only way to go ahead

and get the truth out of her, like I told Paul, I says

Paul, the people from the Assassination Committee if they

believe her,

should make her come to Washington and put

her under oath, then ask her to take a polygrah.

And

1'1l ax tell you this, l'll take a polygraph that the

statement that she said is a complete lie! That it is

not so!. No way in the world did

I ever travel to Dallas,

Texas with her, with Bosch, with Pedro, or Oswald.

Cause I told the Committee

and I told you, too, hey, to

the best of my knowledge l don't think l ever met Oswald.

Because you know the shit that was coming out of the town

from here, that I made the statement the fBl got dax going

that oswald was in town here, and this Lyle Stuart, the

guy who was financing the Fair Play for Cuba thing, and

that's known as being backed up with communist money, that

supposedly Oswald was here and was on a radio station,

there was some article about it in the paper, that he

appeared int front of some TV station or somethina, but

hey, I don't know, this is all some bullshit talk,

I don'+

know

if he was here or not? But l was talking with a friend

of mine today, Bob Tralins, and he remembered Oswald was

here...

(Talked to him last year)... "Oh you did." (Didn't

check out.)

(Re Lorenz claim that Hemming was in photos "Yeah, he called

me up last night.

(where was that trainino camp supposed to

have been?)

"BIS

Pine Key, or No Name.

Well there wege several

down there.

We

had

one out in the Everalades too.

But eventually

they

separated from me and started doing shit on

their own.

Jerry had all the fuckin'

garbage all over theunited States in

with

nim,

bunch of crazy bastards." (Jerry knew Merita,

also,

didn't he?) "I don't know. That's it, l really don't know.

"But

why Merita would say shit like this, l really kaox don't

know either. But l tell you something, she's got a lot of balls;

this gal.

But, hey, this gal here did some good stuff. for.

the government, believe me. You know, in the past she turned

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## Page 25

3

over Communist codes to me, and documents and shit like

that. She worked for the company before and she worked

for the FBl as an undercover agent for about seven vears,

even had

her kid do shit for them.

And she was out

being

a mistress for the top Russian KGB agent in New

York.

She

was his undercover mistress, he bought her jewelry and

booze, wining and dining

her and she was ballin' him.

You know, she won't say it to anybody because it would

make

her look like a whore, you know, but hey, man, she really

dida iob. And I..took tade recordings of all

you now,

and turned it over to our

that shit, k

intelligence, they

got it, they took copies of it

a* and all that. Yeah,

she's got a lot of balls...

(re clicks on line)

"That's probably the FBl bugging me,

ha:

ha; ha.

I hope they got a court order.

Hey, you

know, that's how

Nixon lost his 18 minutes of tape, you

the tame cap.

You know I know who did it, I know

who ordered

It.

I was told who ordered it, and I believe

I know the man who & erased it.

It was erased electronically.

(Why?) Well, you remember there were statements l made to

you and then

it came out in the press about Nixon * was

trying to cover himself about the files he wanted from

ClA about the Bay of Pigs and the missiles

and the Kennedy

assassination, he ordered Helms to give it to him and

Helms

wouldn't

give it to him.

Three times he wouldn't

give it to him

and then Nixon fired him for it.

well,

in that 18 and half minutes tape I think there were

conversations

on that, that pertained to what l was talking

about, and this ex-agent told me, he says, "Frank, you're

right, with the statements that you made, you know, that

I read

about what you said about

Nixon being set up and

so forth and about the files and all that, well, I want to

tell you something, l was hired to erase those tapes." And

he says, "It was done electronically. And the man who hired

me was so and so.

And I got the tape recordino of ite too.

rof the guy telling you

this?) Yes, sir. Hopefully,

it's

still here.

I mean, hopefully it's still in

my possession,

beauxex you know what I mean,

if I don't go ahead and

get

it all

erased, ha, ha.

But he told

me, and whether it was

bullshit or a

lie

I don't know, but this quy vas an

agent.

Well, after a period of time these people get a little

disgusted with their government, with what

goes on and so

forth times, and sometimes people will tell other people, you

know, which

is limited to the people they tell, of so and

SO

and 50 and so.

Who knows, it's a funny world.

l suspect one

of these days

l'm gonna xaxx wake un and somebody is gonna

shoot my ass.

But, hey, *a it's the name of the game.. l don't

worry about it. But sometimes I think Pedro is right. You

know he thinks the Agency is gonna kill him.

He says,

"| know

too much about the Agency.'

You know, he thinks Artime is a

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4

double agent.

(Have you heard

from Artime?) Hell, по,

Artime wouldn't call.me.

You know who called me yesterday?

Howard. (Hunt?) Yeah, ha, ha, ha, Howard.

Here comes all

these press people inside the doors and Howard calls me

on

the phone and

says, 'Hey, sorry to hear about this, so

on and

gar so forth.

I say you on television, you really

did a good job.'

Yeah, I says, Howard, l got

all the press

walking a in the front door right now.

(lt's a wonder

she didn't put him in this thing, too, huh?)

"Well, she pulled a boo-boo by saying. that when she

came from Cuba she met Howard Hunt and myself.

And | called

her up and I says,

"You never met Howard Hunt and me! I+

was not Howard Hunt!T She says, "Well, I thought it was

Howard Hunt,' I says, 'If you saw Howard Hunt todays you

wouldn't know who the

hell the man was! How & could you

go ahead and say that?'

She says,

"Well, it don't make

no difference, what difference does

it make?' I says, 'lt

makes a

lot of

difference!' I says,

"I never knew Howard

at that time. ' I says,

"Now l'm under oath telling these

people, the Senate Watergate Committee that taxI didn't

know Howard,

I never met -- which

is true, you know -- 1

never personally met Howard until

either late 171or

172--

and you come

up with a cockamania

story that Frank arranged

for my escape out of Cuba and

the first people l meet in

Miami is Frank Sturgis and E. Howard Hunt. You gotta be

crazy! To say shit like that, on God.

But she wants to

get in the goddamn papers.

You know

Howard's been hittin'

the papers quite a

bit.

But I says,

"Why do you want to

put the man in the jackpot for? That's a lie.' l

says, "Them

people ever ask you to take a polygraph, for Christ's

sake,

they'll make a goddamn liar out of you.

Because you never

met Howard Hunt because

I never knew Howard Hunt.'

She

never met Howard Hunt.

At least the best as l know.

Maybe

in bed someplace she met him, you know, ha, ha, ha.

She

sure as

hell didn't meet Howard Hunt with me?"

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