Agency: HSCA
Originator: HSCA
Document date: 6/6/78
Document type: TRANSCRIPT

## Page 1

JFK Assassination System

Identification Form

Date:

2/8/2016

Agency Information

AGENCY :

RECORD NUMBER :

HSCA

180-10142-10099

RECORD SERIES: CIA SEGREGATED COLLECTION

AGENCY FILE NUMBER: 23-08-04

Document Information

ORIGINATOR:

FROM:

TO :

TITLE:

HSCA

Released under the John

issassination Records

Collection Act of

1992

144 USC 2107 Notel.

Cased:NT 53080 Date:

06-01-2017

DATE :

PAGES:

SUBJECTS :

06/06/1978

32

OSWLAD, LEE, POST-RUSSIAN PERIOD, TRAVEL, TRIP TO

MEXICO

NAVARRO, RUBEN DURAN

DOCUMENT TYPE:

TRANSCRIPT

CLASSIFICATION :

Unclassified

RESTRICTIONS: 1A

CURRENT STATUS : Redact

DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 08/07/1995

OPENING CRITERIA :

COMMENTS :

Box 12.

v9.1

53080 DocId: 32271403

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## Page 2

KENNEDY

0657

INVESTIGATION INTERVIEW SCHEDULE

1. Identifying Information:

Name

• Ruben Duran Navarro

Address

City/State

Date of Birth

Social Security

2. Physical Description:

Height

Weight

Ethnic Group

Date June 6, 1978

Place

Telephone

MOI S

Spouse_

Children

Color Eyes

Hair

Special Characteristics

3.L Personal History:

•a.

Present Employment:

Address

Telephone

b. Criminal Record

1. Arrests

2. Convictions

4. Additional Personal Information:

a. Relative(s) : Name

Address

b. Area frequented:

C. Remarks:

Investigator

Date

Form #4-B

NH 53080 DocId: 32271403 Page 2

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## Page 3

KENNEDY

0658

SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS

Name

Address

Ruben Duran Navarro

Date

Place

June 6, 1978 Time 11:15AM

Interview:

Present:

Gary Cornwell, Dan Hardway, Ed Lopez,

Harold Leap, Honorio Escondon and

DI. Alfonso Orozco Contreras

C

G. Cornwell: Representing the Mexican Government,

Honorio Escondon and Di. Alfonso Orozco

Contreras. We spoke to you last week

on Wednesday and we have come back today

to simply make a record of your memory of

the events that we have an interest in.

R. Duran

: Yes.

G. Cornwell : Could you tell what your present occupation

is.

R. Duran

Interior Design?

G. Cornwell : What is the business address?

R. Duran : Here? ..?

?

G. Cornwell: And how long have you had that occupation?

R. Duran

: Since 1948

Interviewer Signature

Typed Signature Gary Cornwell, Dan Hardway, Ed Lopez, Harold Leap

Date transcribed _ 6/30/78

BY: _es Form #4-

NW 53080 DooId: 32271403 Page 3

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## Page 4

" Interview: Ruben Duran Navarro

2

0659.

G. Cornwell : During that period of time, have you had

any other jobs or sources of income?

R. Duran

: NO.

G. Cornwell: I'd like to direct your attention to the

week of November 22, that was a Friday,

of 1963. Did it come to your attention

on that day that President John F. Kennedy

had been assassinated?

R. Duran

: Yes.

G. Cornwell: Do you recall where you were when you first

heard that news.

R. Duran

: Well, it was Friday, I was probably working.

I don't remember exactly where I was but I

hear the news, I read the papers and all

other excitment.

G. Cornwell : Did you at that time have an occasion to

discuss the assassination with any other

person?

R. Duran

: Yes, probably with my brother, with my

wife, with everybody that is near me.

G. Cornwell: And for the record what is the name of

your brother?

R. Duran : Horatio Duran Navarro.

G. Cornwell : And your wife's name?

R. Duran : Betty Serrato Azucka de Duran.

G. Cornwell ; And are you still married to her?

NW 53080 DooId: 32271403 Page 4

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## Page 5

Interview: Ruben Duran NavarIo

3

0b60

R. Duran

:Yes.

G. Cornwell: Did you have an occasion, on that day, to

discuss it with anyone else?

R. Duran

: I don't remember exactly who I discuss it

with.

G. Cornwell: On that day, or shortly thereafter, did you

read in the newspapers or see on television--

R. Duran

or hear on television, the name and the face

of the alleged assassin?

: I remember that I read the papers out of

the--sure everybody read the paper, everybody

read the paper to see what happen.

The only

thing I didn't--er don't remember who was the

killer til they took us to the

?

?

precient.

That was the first time I hear his name.

G. Cornwell : Had you, then to the best of your memory

not discussed the name of the

assassin,

Lee Harvey Oswald, with any friends or relatives

prior to being taken to the police station?

R. Duran

: No, because during that hour that they took us--

that hour, I did not know the name of this

guy.

G. Cornwell : Do you recall seeing his picture on television

R. Duran

or in the newspapers?

: I remember the first time I saw his picture

was on IV when they took it and they kill him.

NW 53080 DooId: 32271403 Page 5

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## Page 6

Interview: Ruben Duran Navarro

4 066!

G. Cornwell : That would have been the occasion on which

he was killed, the assasin was killed, or

the alleged assassin was killed in the police

station in Dallaz?

R. Duran

: Yes.

G. Cornwell : That would have been then on Sunday the 24th.

R. Duran

:Yes.

G. Cornwell : Upon seeing Lee Harvey Oswald then on television

at that time did you have any memory of ever

seeing him on any prior occasions?

R. Duran

:NO.

G. Cornwell: Going back then, to your statement that his

name came to your attention when the police

contacted you.

R. Duran

• Yes.

G. Cornwell : Would it be accurate to state that was on

November 23rd, Saturday?

R. Duran

: Yes.

G. Cornwell : At that time the police came to your home?

Correct?

R. Duran

: Correct.

G. Cornwell ; And they also took you to the police station?

R. Duran : Yes.

G. Cornwell: What were the nature of the questions they

R. Duran

asked you?

: If I know Lee Oswald. They don't ask me if

NW 53080 DooId: 32271403 Page 6

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:: Interview: Ruben Duran Navarro

5

0662

I know him.

They told me that he was my friend

?

G. Cornwell : In other words they made the allegation or

the

accusation to you

that he was your friend,

is that correct?

R. Duran: Yes.

G. Cornwell: In order to get you to respond?

R. Duran : Yes.

G. Cornwell : Did they make any other allegation or accusation

you?

R. Duran: : No.

G. Cornwell: Did they look through any of your books or

"* papers or records?

R. Duran..

They look through--when they went to my home,

they went through my pictures and my papers

Between my sister-in-law went to my house

going

to see what's going on. Then when they all

these people get into my house, they started

looking in all my papers, all my draws, everything.

G. Cornwell: They did a thorough search of your home?

R. Duran : Yes.

G. Cornwell : Compete search?

R. Duran

:Well, I don't think it was a complete search

because they they just looked for pictures. I

had a lot of pictures.

G. Cornwell : But they looked everywhere in your house?

NW 53080 DooId: 32271403 Page 7

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Interview: Ruben Duran Navarro

6

06.63

R. Duran

: I don't remember if they looked everywhere

in my wife's house --man, it was so many

people over there.

well, around probably

they looked all through my house.

G. Cornwell : To you knowledge did they find anything

which indicated any association between

you and Lee Harvey Oswald?

R. Duran

: No, it was impossible.

G. Cornwell : How many people do you recall being taken

to the police station?

R. Duran

: It was er, my sister-in-law, my brother,

my wife, this American girl, Barbara was

-* T

there, her boyfriend that went to pick up

her and

?

he's dead

already, girlfriend of my sister, she was

eating with my brother and my sister.

G. Cornwell: when were all of you released from the police

station?

R. Duran

:At the same day--the next day Sunday, at about

two or three o'clock in the morning.

G. Cornwell : So it would be very late Saturday?

R. Duran

: Around twelve hours they took us there--eleven

to twelve hours.

G. Cornwell': After that do you recall again--or do you recall

discussing the interrogation with your relatives?

R. Duran

: Yes, I discussed that. We asked my sister-in-law

NW 53080 DooId: 32271403 Page 8

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## Page 9

Interview: Ruben Duran Navarro

7

066.4

what was going on and she told us that she

could not talk. The only thing that she

could tell us that the reason they took

us over there because he has her name--

Lee Oswald has her name in her phone book.

G. Cornwell: OK when you say your sister-in-law, you are

referring to Silvia?

R. Duran

: Silvia, yes.

G. Cornwell : When did this conversation occur?

R. Duran

' : In Samborne's:

after they let her go we

went all together when we

got away from there

to have something to eat.

32.

G. Cornwell.: So this would be two or three o'clock in the

morning?

R. Duran

: Yes. Three or four.

G. Cornwell : You went to Samborne's?

R. Duran

:Yes.

G. Cornwell : And that is a large department store, cafeteria,

cafe?

R. Duran

: Yes, it's only one block from there.. It's a

cafe that's open 24 hours.

The only one there

open 24 hours.

G. Cornwell

: And at that time you discussed the nature of

the questions that had been asked by the police?

R. Duran

• : Yes.

G. Cornwell : Did you learn through those conversations that

NW 53080 DooId: 32271403 Page 9

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Interview: Ruben Duran Navarro

8

0665

the police had asked aby other kinds of

questions other than the ones they had

asked of you?

In other words, did they

any kinds of accusations of the other

R. Duran

people-- of Silvia or Horatio?

: No, no, no. They all asked the same thing

and all--they told us it was

a big mistake

and that we have to forget about everything.

G. Cornwell : OK based on the conversations that you had

at Sanborne's, it appeared to you that the

police had asked everyone the same type of

questions?

R. Duran

Yes, I think that everybody asked the same--

my brother, they asked him to, my wife too and

everybody.

G. Cornwell: All right. Based on those conversations, did

anyone --your brother, your wife, anyone are-

indicate that they had ever met with or seen

Lee Harvey Oswald besides Silvia?

R. Duran

; The only one was Silvia.

G. Cornwell:: And would you tell us as best you recall exactly

what Silvia said at that time the nature or

her contact with Oswald was?

R. Duran

:.MY I speak Spanish?

G. Cornwell : Certainly, we'll translate..

R. Duran

: OK

NW 53080 DocId: 32271403 Page 10

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Interview: Ruben Duran Navarro

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C

R. Duran

: I remember that we arrived at Samborne's.

We were all very anxious to find out exactly

what had happened--what this whole thing was

all about. Than Silvia said to us, the problem

was, the accused

assassin of John F. Kennedy

had been in Mexico looking for a visa to go to

Russia via Cuba.

Ed. Lopez: : In other words a in-transit visa.

R. Duran

: And that she had been the person who would

handle him, and so that he would not consistently

or persistently visit the Cuban Consulate, she

had given him her telephone so that he could

communicater with her and for that reason they

R. Duran

had looked her up and they had found data with

her name in a address book of Lee Harvey Oswald's.

That's it.

G. Cornwell: Did she tell you anything about any other

conversations which may have occured inside of

the consulate?

R. Duran

:

No.

We did not discuss any of that because

we were all very tired and really none of us

knew anything about this. The following day

I'm not sure if it was the following day or

the day after that, they again detained her

to the Security Station to protect her.

?

T.V. so that she would not be alone.

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Interview: Ruben Duran Na arro

10

0667

Then again I did not see her-- we've never

really been that close-- until it all ended.

G. Cornwell: Did she mention to you anything about her

reaction to Oswald--what she thought about

her?

R. Duran

: I'm not sure if we talked about that, but

we probably did talk about it since it is

so strange, so out of the ordinary.

I tried

to figure out what was

going on and I became

very interested and I asked ?

to be

more

?

about it.

G. Cornwell: Where did you read about it?

R. Duran

: In the newspapers.

G. Cornwell : Anywhere else?

R. Duran

?

G. Cornwell: Did she tell you whether or not Oswald had

made her mad, whether she felt sorry for

him, whether she tried to help him or any

thing along those lines? What was her

personal reaction to him?

R. Duran

: I'm not exactly sure, but I have an idea.

She

gave him the telephone number because

she felt very sorry for him and he continued

to insist--insisted-- and I think that's why

she probably gave him the phone number, as he

remembers.

53080 DocId:32271403 Page 12

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Interview: Ruben Duran Na arro

0668

11

G. Cornwell : Did she ever express any doubt about whether

or not the man who was in some the newspapers

and on television was in fact the man who had

come to the consulate and visit with her?

R. Duran

: NO.

G. Cornwell: Did she ever say anything to you that lead

you to believe she might have.

met with him

outside of the Consulate?

R. Duran

:NO.

G. Cornwell : Has that allegation or accusation ever come

to your attention before?

Have you ever

heard any conversation about that possibility?

R. Duran

135.

: No.

G. Cornwell: Did she ever say anything to you which indicated

that he may have made comments in conversations

with her that indicated an intention in his

part to possibly to shot the president?

R. Duran :

: No.

G. Cornwell : Are you sure about that?

R. Duran

• : Yes.

G. Cornwell :; Let me read to you a small excerpt out of a

book written by Daniel Schori, a correspondent

from the United States, called Clearing the Air

which reports apparant comnents by Fidel Castro

and ask you if she she ever relayed anything

like this-- a conversation like this to you--

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Interview: Ruben Duran Na arro

12

0669

Silvia did. It states in the book on page 171

"In an interview in July 1967, with a British

Journalist, Comer Clark, Castro said that

Oswald had come to the Cuban Cousulate twice

each time for about fifteen minutes. The

first time I was told he wanted to work for

us, he was asked to explain, but he wouldn't,

he wouldn't go into details. The second time

he said he wanted to free Cuba from American

Imperialism. Then he said something like

someone ought to shot that President Kennedy

then Oswald said and this was exactly how it

was reported to me, 'Maybe I'll try to do it'."

Did Silvia ever explain her contact with Oswald

in terms--in any way resembling that?

R. Duran

:: No none absolutely.

G. Cornwell: Did she ever indicate the possibility, that

perhaps when she was leaving the Consulate,

Oswald was waiting outside to talk to her?

Was there any contact like that outside of the

Consulate?

R. Duran

No. I don't if she really has some kind of a

contact with him or relating with the Visa or

something like that, but he--I never heard any-

thing like that.

G. Cornwell: Ok that, exactly the possibility that I

meant

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Interview: Ruben Duran

Na 'arro

13

06.70

to ask you about, the possibility that he

had waited and said, you know "Can you

give me some more help on this Visa" or

R. Duran

anything like that.

,: It can be possible.

G. Cornwell: But you never heard any stories?

R. Duran

: Oh no, no, I never heard any stories.

G. Cornwell : You indicated earlier, that the subject matter,

of course with Silvia's contact with this man

interested you enough that you read the newspaper

articles on it?

R. Duran

Yes, I have read all the problems during that

" time for that reason and.

G. Cornwell: Had you ever read the Warren Commission report?

R. Duran

: No.

G. Cornwell: Had you ever read any part of it, for instance

the part dealing with Silvia?

R. Duran

: No. I don't even know what it is.

G. Cornwell:: The arrest and detention by the Mexican authorities,

in and of itself is of no interest to us, except

with respect to one point and that is, was there

anything about that arrest or your treatment

which led you to provide them anything but the

truth about what happened? In other words, did

arrest of the detantion cause you to make any

false statements to them?

NW 53080 DocId: 32271403 Page 15

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Interview: Ruben Duran Navarro

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0671

R. Duran

: No.

G. Cornwell : Did you tell them the absolute truth when they

interviewed you?

R. Duran

* Yes.

It was very little to say. I didn't have

to really think about it.

G. Cornwell: So everything you told him was the truth?

R. Duran..

: Yes.

G. Cornwell : Did you know Sabio Asquay?

R. Duran.

:This is the first I hear his name, I dun't know.

G. Cornwell: He was the Council at the Cuban Consulate.

R. Duran

: Um hum.

G. Cornwell : You did not know him though?

R. Duran

:No, I do not know him.

G. Cornwell' : Had you ever met him?

R. Duran

: Never.

G. Cornwell : Did you know an employee there, Theresa Prorenzo

R. Duran

: No.

G. Cornwell : Did you ever now a person name Louisa Calverone?

R. Duran:

: Louisa Calverone? No.

G. Cornwell : Did you ever know Camillo Carbiedo?

R. Duran

Well, I hear his name in the papers, he is

a writer

?

But I never met him.

G. Cornwell : A cousin of yours Deba Guiera.

R. Duran

Deeba. Not

?

It's Debake Gueria de

?

She's a cousin of mine. Her husband was my

professor--an art professor of mine at St.

Carnabis.

NW 53080 DocId: 32271403 Page 16

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Interview: Ruben Duran Navarro

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C

G. Cornwell : Did--was your realtionship with DeBakke or

Ellena or her daughter Ellinita more than

just a family relationship? Was it social

at all?

R. Duran

: No, we--when we were kids we used to see

each other very often, but after I got

married and after, I don't know probably

since 1943 since I didn't see them very

often, only once in a while.

G. Cornwell: On those occasions what was the nature of

•R. Duran

those associations? What type of events?

Well, since her husband was broken she

was trying to sell his paints outside

interior design the greatest, so I sometimes

I sell some of his paints to some of my clients.

G. Cornwell: Who is

this you are talking about?

R. Duran

:?

G. Cornwell: Did you ever

go to parties with DeBake or

Ellena?

R. Duran

: Well not during that time, probably when we

were kids.

G. Cornwell: Only when you were kids?

R. Duran

; Yes.

G. Cornwell: During the 1960's we understand that you

and

Silvia and Horatio had dance parties, is that

correct?

NW 53080 DooId:32271403 Page 17

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• Interview: Ruben Duran Navarro

06.73

R. Duran

:: Do what?

G. Cornwell : Dance parties, where you get together with

a bunch of friends and do the twist and that

R. Duran

sort of thing?

: Oh yes, Yes, yes.

G. Cornwell : Did Elenna or Ellinita DeBake ever come

to those parties?

R. Duran

No, we don't see each other for some time

and they are older than us. She is about

10 years older than I am.

G. Cornwell

: Where were those parties held?

•R. Duran

: In my house where I used to live and ?

?

after I change address from

Erridoto, where they arrest us, where they

went for us, we moved to another part of

the street up from there. There we used to

have parties. Oh, about ten parties in three

years, something like that.

G. Cornwell: Did during this same period of time, you or

Horatio or Silvia know any persons from Cuba?

R. Duran :: Here in Mexico?

G. Cornwell : Yes:

R. Duran

: No, not that I know.

G. Cornwell : Not that you knew anyway? Did you recall

during that period of time ever meeting a

Negro from Cuba?

R. Duran

: No.

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Interview: Ruben Duran Navarro

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C

G. Cornwell: Do you recall any employee of the Consulate

ever being at those parties?

R. Duran

:No.

G. Cornwell. : Do you know General Flores?

R. Duran

G. Cornwell

R. Duran

Yes, he was my client, he was my friend

and I did a lot of work for him.

What kind of work?

: Designing, he used to own a hotel in

Iguna and I make designs for him. He has

a house in Cinada and I did designs for

him since he was building a city in

Encinada and Iguana and we were doing some

work with him, plans and designs of motels,

things like that.

G. Cornwell: Was he also a social acquaintance?

R. Duran : : A What?

G. Cornwell: Also on a social basis?

R. Duran

Yes, he was very nice with my family and he

used to go to my house once and a while

?

G. Cornwell : Did he ever come to the parties?

R. Duran

•: No, not to the parties, he was older too.

G. Cornwell: I assume that the event--the assassination,

R. Duran

the arrest--was a rather significant thing in

the lives of you and your family, correct?

: It wasn't significant per se, it was something

different and strange and relevant, but nothing

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Interview: Ruben Duran Navarro

18

0675

relevent.

G. Cornwell : The only reason I asked the question is, when.

a rather significant event happens, and especially

if the event is also portrayed in the newspapers,

it's usual that for a long period of time

thereafter people will come to the person who

experienced the event and talk to them about

it, correct?

R. Durạn

.: Yes.

G. Cornwell : Over the years since the assassination, has

anyone ever come to you and profess to know

anything about Oswald and his trip to Mexico

R. Duran

City?

: No, they look for us, I think from the Black

Magazine once, but we have--we don't want to

talk to nobody and they told us in the

?

Spanish

se 001548

Ed Lopez

: The police told them not to make any comments

G. Cornwell: But has any of the people I have asked you

about for instance ever mentioned to you that

they saw Oswald while he was here?

R. Duran

: No.

G. Cornwell: Have they ever professed to have any information

about his trip to Mexico City?

R. Duran

: No:

G. Cornwell : Do you have any reason to suspect that if we

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Interview: Ruben Duran Navarro

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C

R. Duran

to any of these people, they would have

information of help to us?

:I don't know what people, if you tell me

but I don't know.

G. Cornwell : All of the people I just asked you about

that you did know, Ellena, Ellinisa, DeBake

General Forbes. Any of those?

R. Duran

: No, no. I don't know deBake an Ellena.

I don't think so. I think that Ellena at

that time was a little girl..: I'm not sure

if she had returned yet, but I saw her

?

I saw her in 1962, she

was married to Octavio Paz and I was in Paris

for twenty-four hours and there I went to

visit her. I have to find her address through

the Embassy. She is the only person I knew in

Paris.

We went out together with her daughter

and she showed me a few things about Paris, a

few places in Paris for the few hours that I

had there-spent there.

G. Cornwell : But this was prior to the assassination?

R. Duran

July, 1962.

G. Cornwell : Have you seen or talked to her since then?

R. Duran

: NO.

G. Cornwell : Do you know Ricardo Guerro?

R. Duran

: Ricardo Guerra? I know he is a professor and

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20

0.6.77

C

a friend of my brothersin the University.

G. Cornwell : Were you and he on a social basis?

R. Duran. : No.

G. Cornwell: Did he ever come to any of the parties at.

your home or Horatio's?

R. Duran

: NO.

He wasn't my friend, I just know him.

G. Cornwell: Have you ever traveled outside of Mexico,

other than the Paris trip?

R. Duran

: Yes.

G. Cornwell. : With who and when?

R. Duran

: I make a trip to Europe in 1962 with Clark

Flores, he met us over there, my cousin

?

and another family of

Port ?

we went to Europe in

1952. We went to Amsterdam and then we fly

to Cuba and we went with--Black Forest invite

us to go to Moscow

because it

was a

reunion öfsthe Olympic Committee.

G. Cornwell: You went to Moscow for a reunion of the Olympic

R. Duran

Committee.

Yes I was going to Europe and he told me you

would like to go to Russia because I am going

there and I invite you over there. So, he

fixed our papers and then our cousin, she was

visiting us, she was very excited and

she wanted

to go to, and then this friend of mine he

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Interview: Ruben Duran Navarro

0678

21

wants to go too.

three in LoS ?

The three together, we stayed

and two days in the ?

and two days in the La Grado and then we went

to ?

?

Denmark, the ?

Germany, then we went to Austria it was a trip

all over, then Spain and then across

Paris on

• the

?

G. Cornwell: Have you ever been to Cuba?

R. Duran

:: Yes, I went to Cuba in 1961. I went to ?

In St. Peter, Florida and I fly threw thru

Cuba to Miami and I stayed one day in Cuba

because I had never been there, in Havanna.

G. Cornwell : Did you or Horatio or Silvia have any friends

living in Cuba?

R. Duran

: Well, my brother was invited with my--he went

with Silvia--I do not know if he went

?

or he went together. I remember at one time

they went for one week and was invited to Mrs.

Shoo.

G. Cornwell

: When was that?

R. Duran

G. Cornwell

• R. Duran

: I don't remember exactly but it was around--

I can not tell exactly that time, it was

probably after 1966.

: I don't understand, Who invited them to Cuba?

: I really don't know who invited them. I don't

remember either if my brother went with Silvia

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or if he went alone." I dont remember what.

G. Cornwell : I have two books of photographs that I would

like for you to look at and simply tell us

if you can recognize any of the people. The

first book which we will simply describe as

a book that says on the outside Photo Ident.

Book and has basically 3x5 photographs in it,

and a second book which has smaller pictures

in it and is labeled JFK document #7549.

While

you take a few moments to look through that

well turn the recorders off and give you time

to look through the books.

You have now had almost ten minutes to look

through the two photo books and would you tell

us what, if anyone or whom you recognize in

the two books.

R. Duran

:The only one is Mr. Lopez.

G. Cornwell; So in the book which had the larger pictures

you recognized no one and in the book which

is labeled Exhibit 7549, you had pointed to

photos number 26 and 27 and identified that

as a man named Ernesto Lafell, and where do

R. Duran

you know him from?

: He was--he took a sign when my brother was

teaching in

?

He was a student of my brother's for a while

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and then he went on his own.

G. Cornwell: Do you know where he is now?

R. Duran

: I don't know where he lives now but he

teachs: classes at the University in Mexico.

Ed LopEz

: He is a professor?

R. Duran

: Yes. My brother would know where he is.

Ed Lopez

: Were you aware of an allegation that was

made by the Mexican authorities when they

questioned Horatio and Silvia, that Silvia

and Lee Harvey Oswald, while he was here,

were lovers?

R. Duran

: No.

G. Cornwell: Based on everything that you have heard

over the years and your knowledge of the

relationship between Horatio and Silvia,

and the knowledge of Silvia, would you

think that there was a possibility that

that allegation was true?

R. Duran

: No. I don't think that's not possible.

G. Cornwell: Have you ever worked for any intelligence

agency of any country, including our own?

R. Duran :

:NO:

G. Cornwell : Do you know whether or not Horatio or Silvia

ever had.

R. Duran

Horatio, he worked--he was in the police force

in 1949 in the political agency--the Justice

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Department. The job was

?

That was I think in 1947 or something

like that.

G. Cornwell: And is that the only relationship that you

know of of any member of your family?

R. Duran

: My family yes. My sister worked in the

intelligence committee in Florida. Tom Flores

found her a job there and she is still working

there.

G. Cornwell: When did you first learn that we would come

talk to you?

R. Duran

:When my friend

?

located

• 3 us and finally told us what it was all about.

G. Cornwell: And approximately when was

that?

R. Duran

: About a week ago.

G. Cornwell: Since that time have you taken the opportunity

to discuss the events that we have asked you

about with any other person? Have you gone

over them with Horatio or Silvia or anyone else?

R. Duran

: Well, yes, I told my wife, when Silvia, that

day you were here, I give her a lift to her

mother's house and she told me something of

what happened, you know.

G. Cornwell; Some of the questions that were asked?

R. Duran

: No, not the questions, she was telling me

things that I didn't know, not even when this

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0682

happened. Like, more, she reminded many

things that happened that I forget about.

Like all the problems they have with the

Cuban government.

G. Cornwell : Silvia told you about some of the problems

that she had had with the Cuban government?

R. Duran

: No, she was telling me because she said she

wanted to write a book about this,

?

so she was telling me things like that so

I tell her that I can tell them " well, I

?

out of this book, you know?

G. Cornwell: The reason that I asked the question

is and

a maybe you can just help us with this, I would

like to know whether any part of what you said

today is not your independent recollection,

but rather is based on something which has

been said to you by Horatio or Silvia?

R. Duran

: NO.

G. Cornwell : It's all your independent recollection?

R. Duran

:Yes it is.

G. Cornwell: In the conversations during the last week or

so, did you learn anything new about the

contacts between Silvia and Lee Harvey Oswald?

R. Duran

:NO.

G. Cornwell : Did you learn anything which you have not told

us here today?

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C.

R. Duran : No.

G. Cornwell : Is there anything else that you know about

the matters that we have asked you about

that you have not told us?

R. Duran

: No.

G. Cornwell: : Is there any person who has ever professed

to have information about these events

which you could suggest to us that we could

talk to.

R. Duran

: No, I don't think so.

G. Cornwell : Do you know Erneso Odio?

R. Duran

: No.

G. Cornwell" Your agreement to talk to us and to let

us record your statements, was that completely

voluntary?

R. Duran

: Yes, completely.

G. Cornwell: Is that any part of it that you have felt

uneasy about talking about, or any area

that you have not provided any information

you have.

R. Duran

: It is curiosity.

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0684

R. Duran

: It is all

good part of

curiosity.

First, we want to know. Second, we were

also very curious.

G. Cornwell

Have you of were you, let's say in 1960

interested in politics?

R. Duran

: Well, no.. I have never been very interested.

The only time I was interested in politics was

when I went to the American Army and perhaps

you know that I serve in the American Army

as a paratrooper because I was born in Los

Angeles.

So, I hate Nazi's.

So they never

called me because they lost my

track because

I was born in Los Angeles and I lived here since

I was six years old and then I went to the.

American Embassy and I became volunteer to the

American Army. They never called me and during

that time I didn't have anything to do, I had

left school and everything so I say if they don't

call me I go back myself so I went to Los Angeles.

G. Cornwell

Let me see if I understand you. You were born in

LoS Angeles?

R. Duran

:Yes.

G. Cornwell : When you were about six years old you moved to

Mexico.

R. Duran

Yes, during the Depression about 1924 or 1930 or 31.

G. Cornwell: What was the date of your birth again?

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R. Duran

: 1924.

G. Cornwell: And then when World War II started, you went

to volunteer or what?

R. Duran

Ibecome volunteer in 1943 and I joined the

Army beginning in 1944

G. Cornwell : And where did you serve?

R. Duran

: Well, they never sent me overseas. The reason

they did not-is my English. I took my basic

training in Portia, Oklahoma and then I became

volunteer for the paratroopers and then I went

to ?

, Gerogia and then I get into

the 82th Airborne Division, American's guard

of honor and we paraded in Washington once.

After that I--when the war was over, I enlisted

for one more year to see if I could learn more

English and then I work for--my one year in the

States I went to school in Los Angeles, the

?

Art Institute. Then I worked

painting refrigerators and frigedars in Dayton,

Ohio and then I went to Chicago to do a sketching

in the art department in Chicago in the meat

house of Sears and Roebuck and well I did many

works like that. I came back to Mexico and then

I came: as a veteran and the government of the

United States paid me three and a half years of

G.I. bills here in Mexico and I went to art school

here too.

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G. Cornwell : Have you ever been a member of any political

party?

R. Duran.

• : No.

G. Cornwell

We understand that perhaps Horatio and silvia

were very much in favor of the Cuban Revolution

R. Duran

during the early 1960's, were you?

: Well, I believe in--I believe that-- I have

seen. ?

for them. I don't believe

nothing, because I really don't know much I

have seen

?

during that

time. Because Bastista, everybody used to

?

Bastista during that time.

G. Cornwell : What were your views of President Kennedy?

R. Duran

: Well, I like him very much, I like his face

and I was

not here when he came to Mexico, during'

that time I was in Europe. They make him a.

beautiful--they told me they make him a beautiful

reception here in Mexico, but I had sympathy

for him and I like him because he was young and

he--I like him.

G. Cornwell : How did Silvia and Horatio feel towards him?

R. Duran

: I think they feel the same way.

D. Hardway: I just have a couple questions I would like to

ask you. You mentioned that the second time

Silvia was detained

it was to protect her.

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068)

R. Duran :

: Yes.

D. Hardway : How do you know it was to protect her?

R. Duran

: They told me.

I took her her TV and

they told they were very afraid that if

something happen it would complicate

everything, it would complicate the

Mexican government.

D. Hardway : Did they tell you who they were protecting

her from?

R. Duran

: No, I guess anyone. I belives that during that

time with what happened with Oswald and

everything and the Mexican government or

Mexican police were afraid if something happen

to her and everything was very complicated so

they protected her for three or four days, I

don't know.

D. Hardway

: Did she ever mention to you that she had told

Oswald that there was any other way to

get a

Visa to Cuba other than the entransit visa?

R. Duran

: No, I don't know that because I don't know

the procedure.

D. Hardway : Did she ever mention to you that she had told

him of other ways?

R. Duran

: No.

D. Hardway ; When was the last time you saw Elena Grererro?

R. Duran

: In France of 1962.

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D. Hardway : You have not seen her since then?

R. Duran : I don't even know if she is still alive

because somebody said died.

D. Hardway Did you ever talk to Elena about Oswald?

R. Duran: No, I don't see her since 1962.

D. Hardway : Have you ever talked to anyone who said

they had talked to Elena about Oswald.

R. Duran

: No, I contacted way

lived some

other place and went away, her brothers, her

sister. One sister lives in Spain, her mother

used to live in Gu:?

she died

?

I never saw her anymore.

After that I never saw anyone of them.

G. Cornwell : I guess there are no further questions, we

thank you very much for taking the time to

speak to us.

R. Duran

: Oh, that's all right, any time.

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