MEETING OF MR. ROCCA WITH MEMBERS OF THE SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE STAFF
Originator: CIA
From: ROBERT WALL
To: MFR
Document date: 11/13/1975
Document type: PAPER - TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

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2022 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN E KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992 A:

13 November 1975

MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

SUBJECT:

Meeting of Mr. Rocca with Members of

the

Senate Select Committee Staff

1. On the morning of November 11, 1975, Mr.

Rocca

met, at the request of the Senate Select Committee,

with members of the Staff of the SS Committee. Spec-

ifically Mr. Paul Wallach, Staff Counsel and two

assistants Messis.

D. Dwyer and E. Grissom handled the

questioning. Mr. (D.R. Niesciur) of the CI Staff attended

as an observer.

2.

Mr. Wallach asked Mr. Rocca if he were aware of

the existance of a 201 file on Lee Harvey Oswald prior

to the assassination of President Kennedy on November 22,

1963.

in of peei

Mr. Rocca advised that he was unaware of the file

until the Monday after the event. Under questioning Mr.

Rocca went on to say that to the best of his knowledge

there were only five documents actually in the 201 file

and were of an interagency nature.

He suggested MI.

Hartman be queried on this point. Further, Mr. Rocca

went on to say that there was apparently an error in the

original file opening of Oswald's 201 which was under

the name of lee Henry Osawald and not. Lee Harvey Oswald,

but this was a human error which did not deter the

investigation. In response to why the Agency was not

involved in the investigation of Oswald in the pre-

assassination period, Mr. Rocca stated that there existed

guide lines under the Delimitation Agreement with regard

to military defectors which limited jurigdiction of these

cases to the FBI and to the responsible military arm...

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In this instance it was the Navy and the FBI to the

exclusion of CIA.

When Mr. Wallach alluded to

allegations that Oswald may have been an agent of

CIA or was sent to the USSR with instructions to.

defect, Mr. Rocca made a strong point that Oswald

was never a CIA agent nor to his knowledge was an

American citizen ever asked to defect to the USSR,

although there have been many Soviets who were sent

by Russian intelligence as defectors to the West.

3. Mr. Wallach expressed interest in reviewing

the chronology of Oswald's activities prior to the

assassination and at what point in time did Mr.

Rocca become involved.

Mr. Rocca explained that

during the period of 23 November 1963 through mid-

January 1964 action responsibility for the investigation

rested with WH Division. After that he became involved.

He referred to it as the GPFLOOR Phase. During this

period Messrs. J.C. King, C/WH and (Jack Witten,) 26

C/WH/Mexico City Desk were the two Washington level

officers in charge.

MI. Win Scott, who was COS Mexico

City, was responsible in Mexico. Mr. Dave Phillips,

who was Stationed in Mexico was also knowledgeable..

In Washington, Witten who had oversight of GPFLOOR

dealt directly with Mr. Helms, who presumably kept Mr.

McCone advised. Mr. Rocca then recounted Oswald's

military career and Oswald apparent contacts with the

Cubans while he was in the Marines. At this point Mr.

Rocca made a point that there are gaps in the infor-

mation provided by both Soviet and Cuban Governments to

the Warren Commission and these gaps were, in his words,

"relevent and open." Mr. Rocca stated Oswald's con-

tacts with both the Cubans and Soviets should be

investigated.

He related how Oswald went to Finland

then to the USSR, how he was handled by Rima Shirakova

a Inturist Guide who he said was in fact a KGB agent.

Mr. Rocca suggested that Oswald's attempted suicide was

part of a scenario to "allow Oswald to remain in Moscow

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by a reluctant government to permit further assessing."

His handling in the Soviet Union, his resettlement in

Minsk, the fact he was allowed to marry Marina, whose

uncle was in the MVD, etc. were areas which Mr. Rocca's

comments were that there are areas which the Warien

Commission did not fully investigate and which, in

retrospect, suggested to him that the question

that

Oswald may have been under KGB control was

never re-

solved.

4. At this point in the interview the questioning

turned to assassination plots against Castro. MI.

Wallach asked MI. Rocca if he participated in any such

plots or if he was aware of any.

Mr. Rocca gave a

negative response

then regaled the group about the

international political atmosphere at the time,

recounting President Kennedy's meeting with Khruschev

in Vienna, the

Soviet build up in Cuba, the Missile

crises, Castro's long visit to Cuba in 1963 which led.

to greater assistance by the KGB to the Cuban DGI, and

finally the fact that Castro held a press conference

at the Brazilian Embassy in Havana which was clearly

according to Mr. Rocca a warning to the U.S. that any

attempts on Cuban leaders, i.e. Castro, would be met in

kind.

Mr. Rocca referred

to Des Fitzgerald's trip to

Paris to recruit AMLASH for the purposes of overthrowing

Castro, Fitzgerald's close contacts with the Kennedy

family

and fact he replaced Bill Harvey in the Special

Project to assassinate Castro.

(One of the Staffers

referred to it as Task Force W.) Mr. Rocca then com-

mented on Operation MONGOOSE which he said Bobby

Kennedy was running with McNamara and which involved

Mr. Fitzgerald. The meeting broke at this point.

Next

meeting to be on the morning of November 13, 1975.

5. Incidental items which arose.

At one point Mr.

Rocca made reference to a debriefing of à Soviet

defector Golitzin. Mr. Wallach asked if this was

refuted by Nosenko. Mr. Rocca advised he was not

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cleared for Nosenko at that time hence could not

comment. Mr. Wallach asked for the report on the

debriefing of Golitzin related to KGB assassinations.

At various

times Mr. Rocca deferred questions to

people most knowledgeable on given aspects.

Messrs. Murphy, C/SB, Bagley, DC/SB,

Wigren,

SB Research and Miss Virginia Valpey re analysis on

Oswald's stay in USSR, Soviet methods etc.; Miss

Betty Egerter for file procedures; Messrs. (ack 26

Witten and Dave Philips re Mexico City investigation;

Mr. Len McCoy re dissemination of SB reports; Mr. Kim

Chalmer re HTLINGUAL; and a Mr. Bruce Solie re Office

of Security files and investigations.

6. A final point.

Mr. Rocca in furtherance of

his theories suggesting possible Soviet and/or Cuban

complicity in the Kennedy Assassination, provided two

documents from the files to Mr. Wallach othe latter

graceously gave the documents to Mr. (Niesciur with a

request they be reproduced prior to the next meeting

as he may submit a document request for them at a

later date.. Copies of the documents in question are

attached.

Robert Wall

AC/CI/OG

Attachments

Distribution:

vórig & 1

- AC/CI (to be held for C/CI)

1 - CI/OG/SO

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