MEETING OF MR. ROCCA WITH MEMBERS OF THE SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE STAFF
Originator: CIA
From: AC/CI/OG
Document date: 11/13/1975
Document type: PAPER - TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

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2022 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992

13 November 1975

MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

SUBJECT:

leeting of Mr. Rocca with Members of th

enate Select Committee Staf

On the morning of November 11, 1975,

Mr. Rocca

met, at the request of the Senate Select Committee,

with members of the Staff of the SS Committee. Spec-

ifically Mr. Paul Wallach, Staff Counsel and two

assistants Messrs.

D. Dwyer and E. Grissom handled the

questioning.

Mr. (D.R. Niesciur) of the CI Staff attended

as an observer.

03

2.

Mr. Wallach asked Mr. Rocca if he were aware of

the existance of a 201 file on Lee Harvey Oswald prior

to the assassination of President Kennedy on November 22,

1963.

Mr. Rocca advised that he was unaware of the file

until the Monday after the event.

Under questioning Mr.

Rocca went on to say that to the

best of his knowledge

there were only five documents actually in the

201 file

and were of an interagency nature.

He suggested Mr.

Hartman be queried on this point.

Further, Mr. Rocca

went on to say that there was apparently an error in the

original file opening of Oswald's 201 which was under

the name of Lee Henry Osawald and not. Lee Harvey Oswald,

but this was a human error which did not deter the

investigation.

In response to why the Agency was not

involved in the investigation of Oswald in the pre-

assassination period, Mr. Rocca stated that there existed

guide lines under the Delimitation Agreement with regard

to military defectors which limited jurisdiction of these

cases

and to the responsible military arm.

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In this instance it was the Navy and the FBI to the

exclusion of CIA.

allegations that Oswald may have been an agent of

CIA or was sent to the USSR with instructions to.

lefect, Mr. Rocca made a strong point that Oswal

vas never a CIA agent nor to his knowledge was

Soviets who were sent

by Russian intelligence as defectors to the West.

3.

Mr. Wallach expressed interest in reviewing

the chronology of Oswald's activities prior to the

assassination and at what point in time did Mr.

Rocca become involved.

Mr. Rocca explained that

during the period of 23 November 1963 through mid-

January 1964 action responsibility for the investigation

rested with WH Division.

After that he became involved.

period Messrs. J.C. King, C/WH and@ack witting this

C/WH/Mexico City Desk were the two Washington level

officers in charge.

Mr.

Win Scott, who was COS Mexico

City, was responsible in Mexico.

Mr. Dave Phillips,

who was Stationed in Mexico was

also knowledgeable.

In Washington, Witten)who had oversight of GPFLOOR

dealt directly with Mr. Helms, who presumably kept Mr.

McCone advised. Mr. Rocca then recounted Oswald's

military career and

Oswald apparent contacts with the

Cubans while he was in the Marines. At this point Mr.

Rocca made a point that there are gaps in the infor-

mation provided by both Soviet and Cuban Governments to

the Warren Commission and these gaps were, in his words,

"relevent and open."

Mr. Rocca stated Oswald's con-

tacts with both the Cubans and Soviets should be

investigated.

He related how Oswald went to Finland

then to the USSR, how he was handled by Rima Shirakova

a Inturist Guide who he said was in facta KGB agent.

Mr. Rocca suggested that Oswald's attempted suicide was

part of a scenario to

"allow Oswald to remain in Moscow

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by a reluctant government to permit further assessing."

His handling in the Soviet Union, his resettlement in

Minsk, the fact he was allowed to marry Marina, whose

uncle was in the MVD, etc. were areas which Mr. Rocca's

comments were that there are areas: which the Warren

Commission did not fully investigate and which, in

retrospect, suggested to him that the question

that

Oswald may

have been under KGB control was never re-

solved.

4. At this point in the interview the questioning

turned to assassination plots against Castro.

MI.

Wallach asked Mr. Rocca if he participated in any

such

plots or if he was aware of any.

Mr. Rocca gave a

negative response then regaled the group about the

international political atmosphere at the time,

recounting President Kennedy's meeting with Khruschev

in Vienna, the

Soviet build up in Cuba,

the Missile

crises, Castro's long visit to Cuba in 1963 which led

to greater assistance by the KGB to the Cuban DGI,

and

finally the fact that Castro held a press conference

at the Brazilian Embassy in Havana which was clearly

according to MI. Rocca a warning to the U.s. that any

attempts on Cuban leaders, i.e. Castro, would be met in

kind.

Mr. Rocca referred to Des Fitzgerald's trip to

Paris to recruit AMLASH for the purposes of overthrowing

Castro, Fitzgerald's close contacts with the Kennedy

family

and fact he replaced Bill Harvey in the Special

Project to assassinate Castro.

(One of the Staffers

referred to it as Task Force W.)

Mr. Rocca then com-

mented on Operation MONGOOSE which he said Bobby

Kennedy was running with McNamara and which involved

The meeting broke

at this point.

Next

meeting to be on the morning of November 13, 1975.

Incidental items which arose.

Rocca made reference to a debriefing of at one point Mr.

defector Golitzin.

Mr. Wallach asked if this was

refuted by Nosenko.

Mr. Rocca advised he was not

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cleared for Nosenko at that time hence could not

asked for the report on the

debriefing of Golitzin related to KGB assassinations.

At various times Mr. Rocca deferred questions to

people most knowledgeable on given aspects.

Messrs. Murphy, C/SB, Bagley, DC/SB,

SB Research and Miss

Virginia Valpey re

Wigren,

analysis on

Oswald's stay in USSR, Soviet methods

etc.; Miss

Betty Egerter for file procedures; Messrs. Jack 26

Witten and Dave Philips re Mexico City investigation;

Mr. Len McCoy re dissemination of SB reports; Mr. Kim

Chalmer re HTLINGUAL; and a Mr. Bruce Solie re Office

of Security files and investigations.

A final point. Mr. Rocca in furtherance of

his theories suggesting possible Soviet and/or Cuban

complicity in the Kennedy Assassination, provided two

documents from the files to Mr. Wallach.

The latter

graceously gave the docunents to MI. Niesciur with a

request they be reproduced prior to the next meeting

as he may submit a document request for them at a

later date.

Copies of the documents in question are

attached.

Robert Wall

AC/CI/OG

Attachments

Distribution:

vórig & 1

AC/CI (to be held for C/CI)

1 - CI/OG/SO

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