NOSENKO INTERROGATION TRANSCRIPTS.
Agency: CIA
Originator: CIA
Document date: 01/01/0000
Document type: PAPER - TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

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MATERIAL APIENED AT CIA MEADQUARTENG DY

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NW 53216 6/17/17

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!.ol

317

11s1 and

100.0

TALLATION

... because they

do nut know his nane.

mit it la knoun that intomation has cone li, let us say, from an

agent who studled and was dlspatched, went through an American

school, sny -- frou Irnn, or

somewhere

else.

The archt has reported that a group was being trained, and

nccording to the Information, the dispatched pergons -- such-and-

such -- with whun he had studied - he docs not inow his name, nor

does he know under wist cover he will arrive; he knows only the

description of the arent or sono inforantion concerning the placo

In which ho is supposed to show up.

Thnt 1s, hig name is not known.

That 1s what an

agent network search file (ngenturno-torysknoye delo)

18.

A. Are you sure this is so.

B. That is the seneral iden; I did not handle this kind of filo.

A. Dut probably you sometimes saw them.

B. I do not remember.

..:

I. In your work, what kind of flles did you nandle -- of those that you

have mentioned to me

5. Delo formulyar, or agent networi developaent sile.

A. So -- the dolo formulyar and the agent networt development file.

Ahat else.

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li. The went meter: deedomment sile

on a soviet itiren.

In 1901 a that 19, In 1913 a tree way Cio dale Perablyne and

there sure tir unir.

tell, let un sily, on the sister, fanara (1G)

That was no nient notrore development rile.

Now...

Here you never at her hunc

B. No.

:

A. You livod naxt door; you could never drop in.

Too bad.

Is the delo formulyar and then they were changed to the DaRs, thon

evidently there was no DAR 1n 1953.

B. Thoro was the ayent network development file.

A .

Mat was tho difference between the dolo formulyar

that time.

and the DAR at

B. I do not remember;

I do not renember.

I do not know.

Nas thero this supplement to the liternoye delo or....

A. Then you yoursel! uld not handle a liternoye delo?

в. No, по.

Tho supplement to the liternoje dcle.

A. ((Pause)) Ihat kind of other files did you handle.

B. ((Pausc)) The agent nettork surveillance

file.

A. ((Pause)) On whom

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i.

Ts personal dile on archt:, safe douses.

1. (riause)) Mint in the eliterene betron a bompetratlenaza and a

B. The javochnaya ivartire lo one in walch one or another sorlot

citizon

lives, and witch the iGB after tho appropriate chucilms,

antes the declulon to recruit him and use his apartnent for thoir

operational almo = they moct agents ((thero)).

Tho apartment does

not belon: to tha NGB, but to the sordet citlzen

(IG) .

The konspirat lvnaya kvartira

belongs wholly to the iGs.

Rho lives there.

A houscicopor can live in It or an agent can bo sottled thero.

A.. Yes.

Hell, what l9 the file called,

for the one type of apartaent and

the other.

What kind of a filo is opened on that man whose apartnent is usod:

B. The keeper of tho Yak -- say it 18 Borls....

A. Borls...

((in English)) That's right.

And the konspiratsunnya tvartira.

B. Personal ille KK and such-and-such a number, or ik and the cryptonym.

A. And the person who takes care of the place.

B. The keeper -- on him there is another file.

A file ls opened on him separately.

The keeper of the kk is -- let us say -- StELAYA.

A.

So.

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Hell, want other files do you los

((Pause) )

that and of felon are opened on a person mio 18 under

deveinint and won tig me thinen: to acrost soon.

It could be a search rile (rosysinoge drlo), lt could be an arent

netmoris unvelomment illo.

On an Individual.

On n rroup....

:

A. Well, tho search file - this 1s understood.

Onco a porson is sound, naturally they have to do sonothing with him --

arrost him, opon a Pilo on tho investiration, then make a dicision

to imprison him or free him - in short, to try hlo. •

It Is understood - they aro scarchins, for him.

Tho agcnt network development conse to an end, to a conclusion,

whon a person is connected with intcllircnce....

A. Thero 1s also a filo when an caplogee irites up a final report....

Alroady a decision has been made by a chief of department or bluher,

on what will bo the outcano of this case and that thore will be an

arrest.

Alrendy, as they say, the KGB Could rake an arrost, but not everything

is rcady to do this.

B. Well, the agent network dovelopent file.

If the KGB still cannot male an arrest, then some more wor's le

needod, additional information. is needed.

Then the agent network, tie technical neans, are uscd..

A. But it la not an agent network developent file.

There is sonething clac.

I think that, with such leading questions, it is very easy to answer.

..

B.

I do not rcrember; I. do not remenbar.

...

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do Mant is tao ditcorner deems tie illon on a restiont, on apont,

and an footh

13.

Tro pissonal ille on a realind (lIchnoye dulo soridento) so 1t 18

called tho personal file en a rostdfit a lot us say -- lunn, Petr,

nnil so

on.

Thic

personal file or the arnt...

and the content is the sane with

the exception tint, In

tir presonal file of the resident, thoro la a

list of tho arents

with room he works, with whom he worked in tho

past, in wilch

safe-housen in moiks, and so forth.

A. Mint other files nio thore.

B. Hell, what ans it called

Ne nnd a file on INTURIST, for the miola depaitrent.

That 19 wint it tas callud.

(26) .

A. ((Pruse)) on the basis of your explantions, one can sny that you

have some kind of knowlete, but not the knowledge of an employee

who worked there.

You yoursolf cannot explain the simplest things.

You do not inor your own illes or many other files wiich there were.

((Pause))

You do not know anymore.

Let us return to anothor question -- name all of the directorates

and departients which vero housed in the new building, Building 42.

B. Tuc FIrst Directorate.

1. The First Chiot Diructorate.

B.

me first Chief Directorats.

Л. Ок.

B. The Chief Directornte of Border Troops.

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;.

!:.

i Personnel Proctorate:

Taon did tireg

rove

in

.

Thing

alinys were in cutlaln: 412.

118 the chlofs

and

the

main

The sain

lendors of tie 163.

are here.

Л.

mat cise:

Lut to sits In BERlyd's office.

B3.

In tae old building.

A. I do not know wiero they are.

You now better - you went in there; you worked

there.

B. ZA:JUROV sits here.

Л.

sore speciflcally.

B.

Pirat Deputy Charman of the KGB ZA:alAROV.

A. No sits in KOBULOV's office:

B. ((Long pause

They split up his office into several parts (X).

A. And there was SEROV:

mao occupies nis office.

B. ¿OBlLOr was thero... SENON, SEICASTNIY, SELEPIN, SELICHLASTNIY....

A, There did SELEPIN sit.

B.

It was in the connecting bullding botween the old buildini and the

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- 1.

1. In the old building or in tir

new on.

in the ner one, in

the not

onc.

л. ок.

Micro did nauGlor sit.

B.

(2G) .

A. Mocre did :ASLENNIKON sit:

B. I do not linow.

:

A. Very woll.

What other directorntes, clenents, and departments are there in the

new building:

You have mentioued the first Directorate, the Border Troops, part

of the Personnel Directornte, some of the leaders.

How many floors are there.

B.

( (Pause)) Nine.

A. You know that (XG).

Of course, nine floors is many.

There is enough space not only for one dircctorate

- sorething elso

Is there (XG) .

B. Part of. the Guards Directorate is there.

A. Where is the Guards Dircetorate located.

B. In the new building, in the ürcalin....

1. Mat do they do in the idealin.

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Bo I do not inow filt they in there.

They oleo are on targunof yoully street (crouleis).

What in they have on Yarsonof'gruskly Street

F. CilfUllYlV's dcputy, SAshio, alta there.

I san there

only at SlialliO'&.

1. When did the Guards nove to the new building:

B. I do not know.

'

A. What elso.

B. ((Pause)) Yos, part of the Tilrd Directorate, the Third -- It 1s In

Bullding #3, In the old building and in the now one.

A. Sinco when:

Why is everything so poorly organized there -- part of a directorato

Is hero and part there.

Hould It not be better to leave one directorate in one place and

another in another.

B. I do not know why.

Well, part of the First Directorate also is on the seventh floor in

the old building.

There is part of it on the tenth floor in building 72, In the old

building.

The Second Departsent of the First Directorate is there (on the

tenth floor)).

A. Let us take the tenth floor.

tho sits there.

B. The Second Department of the First Chief Directorate.

I do not know mo elsa because I never vent

there. •

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- 1.

1. ((Pauso)) tan else Is in the new bulldin

Fint

- jul never

Hold on

tho tont!

floor

of the old bulldin! durin::

your mole tine of work there.

18.

#is, in

the Second Depart-unt.

-I told jou.

1. And you do not inow more of whe ly there

You did not nect anyone.

In

1l yenry

B. Tho tenth floor is a very short one;

It ts not vory largo:

A. If you know that it was a short and not a large ono, you nust know

something elso.

B.

Whnt, what:

A. If It is short and not n large ono, lt vould be castor to renember

What was located there.

B.

Well, the Sceond Departnent of tho Firat Directorate is located there.

What elso:

B. I do not know what else.

Oh, yes, part of the office was uccupied by the Seventh Directorate,

the Seventh Directorate.

The tenth, the ninth floor, it scens.

A. That else is in the now building, beginning with 1053 and to the end.

B. ((Pauso)) I du not know, I do not know what cise is there.

I sas not often there.

A. ((Pruse)) And what was at the agricultural Exhibition nost recently:

B. I think (XG) (. Most recently, everythlay thero was liquadated )

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d. mat wan tire

Mant to there

B. The dielles more there at eno cleo, and there more a nurtur of

departents there, at the kunitielon.

i, Mat may located there in lec, loa, and 1909

B. To my thluidny, already nothin: ms located there.

•- ru

A.

of course, perhaps there ms not anything thero.

Then, were did thoy nove frue thero.

13.

Into tho new building and to alsol'nys Street (porculok).

A.

What Is located thoro now?

B. I do not know.

To my thinking, nothing in the 1GB was there.

A. ((Pruse))

Hell, sint olse:

won you wore working there, when ild tho Border hoops move to the

now bullding

B. I cannot toll you when.

A. Ind fren where:

B. They were in Building 412.

..'

A.

Miere.

B. At the second entrance, the third

entrance.

A. Then did they nove fron there

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directorate.

•..' you die not nurl there celor the sai)) .

In the 11 years tunt you moried there, how mang Elmes ald you reste

the Border Troops in the ner bulldin

Bo' I wint there once or tulee:"

To MOROSiTILOY, to GUSEV and that was all.

thore wore thoy

B. In the new building.

Whero:

On which floor.

B. On the third floor in the new bullding.

They had day Gon MORTIHOSOV then.

Now ho (XG) .

ThOn, TOROSHILOV, GUSEV; tho chief of a departnent of the KGB (X).

Л. ((Pause)) What 19 the department called, to wilch you write - which

handles the elpher servico of EGB.

B. The eighth Chlof Directorato.

л.

Where is It:

B.

I know that we gave ((doruments)) for enolpherment ((to an ofilco))

in tho old bullding.

In the annex -- I will tell' you in just a soment a it is between

tho slith and tho slith, bocruse this annex is not on the flith or

slith, but between these floors.

Thls is were we turned ovor ((documents for encipherment)).

But, in the main, they have a large building in loscow.

---

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1. liall, starin

1'. I inow personally on 1 eas not there, but there tag an eeployce ly

the name of FINTO, "ithall.

I met hin where (HaßG) he mas corilm:.

In the automobble, in the minter lino, on the lecto...

lie sent to

the conrool'slaya ((Mutro Station)),

I sio

not know more.

I know

that one of the lustallations of tho Elilth Directornte 18

beyond tuntsero.

Blay' I snoke.

((Pauso)) SELEZNEV, no keeps closo contact, with tho bighth

Directorate -- from the Flist Department -- he came from somewhere,

but... I do not know.

In your life, how many papers did you receive from tho Elghth

Directorato, wich worklay in the Flist and Scronth Departments

B. Only tho coded cablos (shlyrovka).

A. What kind of coded cableg.

B. There aro various coded cables.

They como fron the residency. - thnt a visa must be biven to so-and-so;

or it cones from the poriphery; or it -- the coded cablo — comos

from -- let us say - from Poland, fron Bulgarla, from Gormany.

л.

what other. kind of documents did you let or vero supposed to cet,

when you forked in the First and Saventh Departnents

B. They did not got ther, they did not set they; no.

There 1s... well, this Is the may I beard 16... they call it the

rcd folder, or what did they call lt

It is that which 1s alven then ior deetphering; they report to the

Chairaan; and the Chalman - let us say -- refers lt to GHiLOr,

with Instructions to inform

the chlot of the dupartront about this.

---

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at tore do not ilon lt to ln parsonally.

.1.

And

you aver

saw It

No.

Mld you cer mee dietpacred forcien calles

No, no, no.

Л.

What a uld not they trust you.

B. It does not in furthor than the chior of departeent.

A. You wore the deputy chief of the erpartment.

D. But the Brainths Doportrent ald not net auch things.

1. Did. not ist 1t.

Well, did you ever trite anything for enclonorient

D. YeB, I wrote.

1. But, to ((i sent)) abroad.

B. I wrotrs....

A. Civo me one cranplo....

В.

Ahroad

1.

jes, wien cou trote calie fettirocial ((to be sint)) abroad.

li. Let us Ba,

to the USA.

They tote

....

You milt to los fori....

---

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Nether the chief of dio aparcent, moe tar caler? li freons

to cable lafor to is onioni:

do not thor to taortt lo coln: In ter tort.

ind, let us sap, jou lago lo do tho dachlean Deporthont: thr Calef

Or tio Fleet benetront sin::

et, and tiry send it.

1. (SG).

B. (NG). I do not scheber taero, but thero was suen a procedure

therc...•

do 1at 15 linow to you abouà the booi, Black incle (Chernnya saulya)".

B. Wiat 1s linow to mo.

Mint kind of black Magle".

1.

what do you knon... wint other docurents are neoded in

order. to

T2'1to and send cablos.

B. You walte on a pad (blanks) ....

1. I understand.

on a pad, but what cise is necessary. to veite a

cablo:

That othor helpful interinlashould be used to wilte tho cablo.

B. But, I... only... I know....

That was It called

Dislocation

No.

liell, a dircetory... a telephone directory... Ille a telephoue

directory,

but not a telephone dlrectory... by oblasts and citles

of the Soviet Urlon.

There are

the ((nameg

of)) chiefs of directorates there nru ((tho

nanes of those to wios you moitc... In order properly to Indicate.

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the first naie and patrongile of lao perso lo mao: gou are voltim....

A. 0.:.

It la understandale.

If you are saltion alrone, jou do not inor to son lo vite.

How do you do it

Do You write only the content situat)l, only the content.

A, Probably you address it -- tu the USA, to insilniton, to licw York....

B. One may wilto -- to Manninaton, to Now York.

A. But to whom.

B. You do not know the cryptonym.

They thens:lves put in the cryptonym; and they sign in cryptonya.

This is the First Dircctorate.

л.

What other materials do you use to write a cablo. (XG)

That do you know of the existence of a hooks wilch tells you, for

example, "Our agent, PATHOY," -- PETROV 1s his cryptonym -- "he has

left Moscow for...."

в. "... for liew York".

1. "... For "lev".

B. "For Klev" -= B0.

1. How do you site this in a cable to be ((1.0., before 1t 1s))

enciphered:

Bo That 18 an Interestinz question.

may;

Decause ((sending a cable)), abroad, ns far as I know, you will

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milte not just one cablo, lut tio or tireo.

te are tallin: nuout tilev now.

13.

lui neio me risto nu eo that IVANOV, Ports Ivanovich -- let us

say -

1s leavins: for Klov.

Л.

So -- IVANOV, Loris Ivanovich.

IVANOV, Moris Ivanovich, ls linving.

. B. Ne ask....

A. And...

B. For lin, let us saj, thero....

Tie deputics have uiscuesed it on the high-frequency telephono line

(VCh), and thero they have glven the name....

A. So.

B. No ask that he be contacted, using the name, "Yurly Ivanovich".

And that Is

all.

well, so what.

You will not writo his true nano' -- IVANOV, Boris Ivanovich.

B. No, but I will writo stralent out -- "IVANOV 1S POlDE; he 19 linown

to you; place contact hin, using such and such a nane'.

A. And how will they know what to call him.

Here, you have reccived a cable -- "IVANOV, Borts Ivanovich, 19

conlog; contact him; he is our nan"; le will make a

mistake and

meet soncone else.

B. Piell, you describe hin -- dark....

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1. IVNiO!, Ivon

ranovlen, under desclopient to us, has luft Moscow

for ilcu.

Te asl: thnt you put arents on him.

3. So.

A.

Compose the cable.

B. Lot us say, "On the twenty-ilfti of liny, fron Moscow, by train

number such and such, IVANOr, such and such, under development by

us 1s lcaving....*

If 1t 1s known to us where he will be staying....:

A. (XG) Perhaps 1t 1s an ambassador, a member of Contress of the

Ministry of Forclge Affairs of some country....

((Parse)) ((no response))

We will stop on this question; this is one more confirmation that

you were

not there.

B. I have not understood what you want from me.

A. I simply an telling you - here, an ambassador of sono country is

under development; he has left for Klev; put agents on his - how

will you urite this in a cable:

B.

I write it thus to klev - that such and such is leaving for Klev;

please take such and such seasures; with Instruction, precisely so --

not, in general, agents and operational equinent.

Well, let us say....

A.

No "let us say",

but it is necessary to surround him with equipment,

ngents..

B.

Hell, you say,

"letter "N""

"Take

'lotter!!" neasures...

"letter 'M'"

...

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- 17 -

A. mo rives a description in a enble.

Tric 15 sunothing elso.

1. There is a code rord (pael'), a code word for contact.

tell, of course, there may be a code word.

I on trylor to net from you low you welte a cabis: "Our acht,

PETROV, Is

leaving for ilev on such and such a date; pleaso sect

him."

That 18 nll.

Well, of course, It 19 Indicated un which train ho la traveling.

B. Car such nad such.

A. (XG)

How will you write, 'Our Agent, PETROV":

Will you milto his cryptonym or uso his

true name.

B.

Well, I will write his true name; I will not wilte hia cryptonym -

becnuse they will not find hin by cryptonym.

A. So.

B. (XG).

Let us sny, he must got in contact with....

Elther he may be contacted, using such and such a name, or ho will

phone such and such a number.

A. but how will you know that he is the agent.

B. But I indicate

-

"kaown to us', "known to us."

A, Lot us say he is not alrcady "known to you" but is still under

devclopucut...

B.

I indicate -- contact blu (XG) .

_SEGRET

---

## Page 20

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(exa: 1 and B spent at the enro time.) )

A. It 1g

to

necessary to indiente tint he ly under developnent, and thom:

plant" on him, and now....

(88ri; 1 and li spcali at the anne tine.))

GlInNOv has sald that he doer not want anyone except you, me and.

one other person to know... and that not one cloner clerk will

know about this....

B. I will call on tho ligh-frcquency lino (VCh).

1. You cannot discugs such a question on tho himl-frequency lino.

в.

Woll, then, an employco rocs thoro.

A. I am talkin: only about cables.

How, in this caso, will you compose and send the cablo; how.

What do you use for this; what 1s thoro:

B.

Well, a cablo... then.:. If... you wito simply, "Te ask that you

tako him undor agent survelllanco...."

"Agent surveillance' -- the code clerk can road this every day;

this loos through ils hands cvery day.

I had what I told you in mind as an examplo: an ambassador is

traveling; he is under dovelopment; it is necessary to put agents

on him; agent survelllance; wire-tapping; und other things:

GRIBÁNOV has said

that the code clork must not know of this - "be

careful"; and that Is all.

You know hat to do; send the cable.

B. I never had such an instance.

You send the cable; you aro not told what to do.

---

## Page 21

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Ao do, jou die sold cverstain; to le done - lie ((to do so)) so thant

no une elieft us toons about it.

Because it ls a very slippery problc.

B.

In such a unso, an employce rould to there, an employce would ro

there (iG) .

A. He nio talking now about cables; It in nother untter tint an

employee muld to there; if an emuloyee roon there, jou to to

GHIRAiOV, discuss everythin;, and thoro is no nood to write anything.

But, in this chao, you have to sund a cablo.

B.. I cannot answer this question; I cannot.

1. So.

( (In Englisi)) Very well.

((Long pause) wo were discussing that there are the agents - the

camp Informer (vnutrilngernik), the prison Informer (voutrliamernt);

thore 1g the safe-house'coper, otc.

Wat 18 an Inside Infornor (vnutrennik).

B. (XG).

1. Mat kind of tera is this:

....

i.

B. Nell, 'It may bo used in refcience to a prison informer; a camp

Inforner also is

3 an Inside informor.

A. No, It is not so; ho is not a prison informer, he is

in former:

not a camp

B.

Tell, It may be, lot us any, a target for devoloment, a target for

development; ho is worting in tint tarret (6l.e., Installation -

ob"jent)).

A. lant do you bare in ind by "tarret for develoment lob'yekt

_SEGRET

---

## Page 22

104-10227-10004

- ";

-

tic.

raziniot'.1)

Mant in you mean big tie tori, "tarot fol"!el:)

S.

I nor tint tile tora lo not man; It ls an

old torn.

Let us sing, a group 1s

under development..

a troup devolviment.

In this

roup, end of them to an agcnt;

he way

te called an instre

to forer (vintional:).

A. He may be... but is he.

B. He may bo (XG).

A. Thy did it tako you so lon: to answor thie qucation.

Bi Because It 1s an old term.

A. An old term, in old term.

((Pauso)) Mat are vatci agents (storozhouaya agonture).

B. Agents (ngontura) around an installation, wether it bo a factory

or an embassy.

A:

Well, what do they do.

B. Surveillance around the installation.

A.

That olso.

B.

latch arents are concerned with developnent.... ((Pause))

A, Mo 1s called "boblk".

B.

The cuards nround an embassy.

A. (1G) .

-.

---

## Page 23

104-10227-10004

I do not: nos; they call. tien

noble": they die

mant tea

boyer ll"

il.

fell, tile comecons... for changle, den they mie taratini; the oil

(Ul rainlan intlomallats' ormantantion) In the Urain: there vero

"Noyorl:1" there a ncaber of cochat croups.

1. But whnt does "rent-loyort" mean

D.

"Arent-boyevik" -- thls i8 a KGB acent sno is a neater of a sub-

vorlalve group of nationallets - U:rainlan, solorusslan... also, 1a

the under round..

1. But "acnt-hoyousk", "asent boyovoy sruppy" -- that coss tols nean.

B. He 18 In a group shich 1s under developent, which in tolng sought,

which they are proparing to arregt -- he has been planted in that

noup; ho is a momber of the croup; and he is a "buyerls", they

aro "boyevlil" -- I do not know why.

A. This is not true; you must know this well.

What is the "devyatka".

B. Tho "dovyatka" -- this 1s the statute (stat'ya) under alch

financial resources aro given to tho KGB for opcrational use.

A. Ol, you lnow... yes: (1-2G).

( (Pauso))

You have not told me anythin about the registration files.

B.

We did not have rcuistration files in the First or Scenth Departments.

Tic rogistration Plles =- this is that the repistration tiles are;

there is a registration file on each employee; it is in the

Secretariat of the Chief Dircctorato; that 1s, It shows all the

filos that the operational officer has.

---

## Page 24

104-10227-10004

A. (XG)

13. (XG)

Mint 1g a

"dubo!:"

B. . Well, it 1a...

an old tem... pradalrop (tayndi:) (2-3G).

A. (X) dead-drop.

"Touvebok".

B. I do not know "podvesok".

1. Do you know the work, "tufta".

B.. Well, "tuftn" -- this is somuthin; not correct, forged, a forgery.

A. And what to "tuitit'".

В. То frgo.

A. "Filon":

B.. A person who rofusos to work.

A. "Dokhodyaga":

B. "Dokhodyaga" -- this is a person sho drinks too much, 18 aich, will

dic soon.

Л.

"Fitil"".

B. I have heard... I do not know.

A.

---

## Page 25

104-10227-10004

-:?.

Terre are not agoratloal words.

(XG) "To rut (ruhat"): lt could ho

'to riot"

1. And lt could be to sort crabotat' )

Ou, ycs

-- and "re sort:", also.

And also (X6).

1.

Sannorub".

B. ((Lnughs)) "To cut oneself"... off at the roots.

A. So.

Stukach'"

B. Mis 14 "sol: ((for "sclisot" - scoret Informant)) •

-2.7.

master sinies:did

A. Lyngavyy".

B. 1150, "ack .

1. MiRt jo you mean - "sek".

B. "Lyagavyy" -- also, "sck,

"seksot" ((Sce above)).

A .

Well, "Iyagavyy" is not only a "seksot".

B. Nell, thoy also call Militia

personnel "lyagavyy" -- this is

jargon.

taleves'

A.

"Lyagash".

B. Also, a illitla employee.

Pushchiny rasthod.

---

## Page 26

104-10227-10004

is. I do

not

"now "itisha".

.1.

Pajisn"

B.

broad ration.

So.

'Shrapnel'".

Do It is the soup they rave us in schoul; they called it that.

The boys were laughin: - one picer of train, and the rest is water.

A. Want do they call the flsh, "trestn",

In the Army:

B. I do not know.

A. Invo you heard the word, "pinshn".

B. No.

A. Inve you heard "katushka"

в. 11so, по.

Oh -- "katushlia" -- it neans to give the most extreme sentence

(na palnuyu katushku); it means to shoot ((execute)), ete.

A. "Uria", "urkagan".

B. What, shat

1. "Uria".

!

---

## Page 27

104-10227-10004

-ti-

B. "Urta" a these ars tileur:, roiliss.

A. "Frayyor".

..

B. Hond (stilyaa)...

Tealous, wien

we sere work In: in the first Departnent... we uscd...

wen were aunting for cicetronte Intellense dinters (apparatura)...

I went to PARFENT'YEV... PANTICiT YEV mas then, in 1911, Culer of the

Criminal. Department (usolovnyy royst) of the oscow lilitla; and we

took from him two agents.:. rogues and thleves, as a palr... one nas

311kha1l; and the accond, I do not renenber; be was small....

Well, we sent them; I went to Smolens'....

A .

(XG) .

B. But they used such terms as would raise jour ejabrous.

A. 'Biksa":

B. Well, I do not know... a prostitute.

A. And where did you learn this.

в.

Ah...

uh... I read it in a book.

Sidor"

B. That is what we called a rucksack...

at the

school.

A.

Ugol".

B. (2-3G).

A. "S'sr'1puisha".

B. I do not know.

---

## Page 28

104-10227-10004

colosa".

R.

roll, that Ia bouts (6ap0:1).

richata".

!.

That Is a mich.

"Syzhyy"

B.

Oh...

these are all thieves'

words....

Gold objects.

A.

'Pero":

B. A knlfo.

A. "Handra":

B. : (1G).

.. **

A .

"Kolotushki":

B. I do not know:

A. 'Stirk1':

B.. I du not know.

A.

"Ksiva":

B. A forged document.

A.

'Shtyup".

B. It is the sane as 'Frayyer" ( (See

above.)).

---

## Page 29

104-10227-10004

It la veed now in liternture.

Terre la such a citter - Sullan StaRFor emo

coopted by us:

Be wrote the bool, Petrovia 2 - 16 18 full of theso exprcaslong.

Mich

did you rend Petrovisn

.39

B.

In 1963.

A .

"Vasser".

B. (2-3G) .

1. "Sdelat'" somoono...

B. In thloves' Innuallo, this meane to kill ('-G).

A. "Botat' na tono":

B. I do not know.

A. "Zavynzat"';

B. (1.201.

A. "Elveruy":

B. (1G) .

A. "Zashukharst'.

B. To betray (anbit').

A.

"Mokryye dela":

B. This is murder.

---

## Page 30

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-.'-

4.

sakolot..

A.

"Dusoroy"

В.

(10).

Pat does 'podnadcornyy" nean

B.

A person under observntion;

they watch hin.

1. Tie alreadi havo talked somó of coopters (privicchennoyo 11ts0); you

sald that thure 18....

B. Trusted person....

A. Trusted

and coopted

porsons.

You also have sald that in tho KGB there are caployces who aro not

on tho staff (v lichnon shtate); that are they.

B. Non-staffers (vneshtatnikl), non-strifers.

'A. Phat kind of

category is this -- "non-staffers:

B. It means... they uso them... It began recently....

They are used by tho Seventh Directorate; that is, they use former

intelligence officers (razvedchik) ((1.0., staffers)) -- thoy are on

pension;

they use then and pay them -- for crample,

50 rubles a

nonth.

л.

On mat basis ((1.e., scale)) are they paid.

B. There mas a special resolution (reshenlye), special pormission, that

me will pay thea -- for exasple, 50 rubles - busides the pension,

10r thoir work.

---

## Page 31

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-

pag

.. (frubles)!, andi

not noto

в.

Tals won tho Cantrnan's decision.

A.

Hat, 18 tint person works nore than

nonne vificer

13.

Taey:.. you see how 1t

not used crciguny....

15... they, tour nonastaflors..: they are

A. Hell, even if he l8 not used every dny, but he dues bettor work than

a case officer,

• .

B. (3G).

The Seventh Department... tho Seventh Dircctorate... Is permitted

to use a nuuber...

for this, they have to nite a report -- thay

agk persission....

They are peruitted

a number of nou-staffers nccording to the number

of stalfers.

That 18, they are rivon permission to uso a nualur of non-stall

abents... uh, I mean... employeds.

Let us say... well, 100k....

(. KPASI!. ) was worklng... of the forner employces... for example,

they are in Luzhnikd - that 18, at those installatlong which are

visited by forcigners..

Instead of sending a brigade of surveillants there, they use the

non-staffers... former enployees of the Seventh Directorate.

A. But probably they are alrcady old men.

B. Yes, yes, yes.

Now... one

minute -- the Seventh Department receiveil permission in

1962 to use

non-stall esployces in hotels; that is, they took three

persons in cach hotel 'round-the clock.

In bis hotels, there are even four persong; in the saall ones, tro.

(2G) and they pay then 50 rubles a month; they are from among the

forner esployces of the KGB.

---

## Page 32

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-::I

1. Airlit.

Mulnk mo mill stop on cule for today.

A. You, plenso do.:

I have atlli another saall question.

Anywny, I still antleiln:: that you will chance your decision and

start to tell the truth.

B.

I an tollins you the truth, the truth, the truth.

1. I will toll you once analn today that time is passing.

You my come to the moment then no one will talk to you.

B. But I cannot tell you soncthing elso.

A. Betwoon us, this is the very last opportunity for you.

B. I am tollins you that I an telling, only the truth, only the truth.

Becauso absolutely nothing la holding no back or can hold me back.

A. Well, something is holdins, you back.

:

B. Absolutely nothing.

A. Even in today's conversation.

You even do not know clearly wiat was in the new building, Building #2.

B. I told you.

A. You do not know then they (ll.e., vardous KG components)) left,

when they noved...

You niways try (40).

B. Moll, why:

---

## Page 33

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1 wrend In Bulldin:

an and the surroundinis flüut laples "In the

ole mildine": probably concued in aprech. D); 1 only sent in tho

ner tillain, In the now bulldine telee a tro tines, I aunt to

the colle:lun; thon....

A. About tus Illes, you told ne a little somethns, now, you have mixed

up such of thie, but you du not idor tir baude tilnes, anyway.

Tale sog nut the talk of an employer of the al, wio lad forked there,

but your knowlodio hns been neguired in somo uther way - loarned..

of course, it was not dono

In Just one month, but over a long .

perlos of time; bocnuso an caployee no handled tho filce and workod

there Il years will not wander ainlessly and will not have to think

so (fason about the questions)), in order to deserlbo the differenco

Detecan the delo cormulyar and other tllee....

B. Hell, there was no differenco; there mas tho delo formulyno, und

now there is the agent notwuri develoment file.

I have angered all of your quentlong.

Why are you this way:

((7G; s and B spoak at thio samo time))

A. They save told you only the hill points, and you have learned them,

but you do not know the rest (26).

It 18 very interesting that you still continuo to insist on your way.

It is your own affair.

B. I an Elling you the truth... absolutely.

A. (XG) .

(810 Zaglisa)) That's all for today.

B. Goodbie.

A.

Goodric.

---

## Page 34

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-i?.

189 ha0 nanlled proudously for the uard; there la sons shufflin!:

aler and notre indenting ernarture from tar roo.)

( (3:108

18 11 Aunust 1005 Seeston))

(68s: 10 12 Auruet 1005 gossion.))

---

## Page 35

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8. 34-p.78

11: 11008 19901))

A. ill, how are things coing.

13.

(no audible response) )

A. Comrado Chief.

((pause)) well, lot us tall. today about another subject.... about

tho

Bo-alled BURGI Case.

As you have told is several times before, this was the first so-

called casc, in wich you took an active part.

I would like you to tell me nil about

It from the very boginning:

How dld this case start, ind what netunl part did you

take in this

When

and under what circumstances did It start:

B. I do not remember all of it.

A. Let us

start out with the following -- what ins your position nt.

that tlme:

B.

I was a case officer, of the Seventh Department.

1.. What was your rank.

B. ((spence with uncertainty)) Senior Ileutchant.

1. Schlor lieutenant.

Who was your chief nt that time.

B. Sergey ilkolayevich diS KOY was

the chiet.

i. GUS ROY vas the chiel of the suction.

B. Yes.

L3SS7

---

## Page 36

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A .

ino was thie GUS rOr

ile Is not tue peneral,. of cours.

Mits GUS'ROV cane into the orrans

In 1952, as

a rosult of so-called

Party

solaction -a group canc.

Ho Miaself was a Konsonol vorker.

He studied in an aviation instltute...

no, no ao he studied at the

Bauman Institute, the Bauman Institute.

On finishing the Institute, he wag put into konsonol work.

He was in Komsonol work.

A. ((in English)) Tiat's alright.

Tho was the doputy chief of the section.

B. KONSTANTINOV, Ivan Argent'yevich.

A. Ivan:

B. Ivan Arsent'yevich KONSTANTINOV.

A. Ivan Arsent'yevich KONSTANTINOY.

B. They both were from the Second Department; they cane in 1955, when

the Tourist Section was organized: '

;

A.

Before this, did they both work

In the Second Department?

B.

(XG) .

1.

What did this

departnent do.

B.

The department vas responsible for the embassies of England, Canada,

India,

Pakistan....

A. ((in Englisn)) Alright.

8h0 was

the chief of the departnent at that time:

SECRET

---

## Page 37

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3..

Ruelay Mikhay looteh PEril'Ti.

A, entel of the Soventh Departent

3. Yeg --Mukolay Mikharlovich PERFIL'YEV.

1. NIkolay itking lovich PERFILeYEV.

•Ho vas his deputies:

B. Anatolly Sorgoyevich KOZLOV.

A. • Yes; who else:

B. And one of my (1G), CHELNOKOV.

A. What was PERFIL'YEV's rank:

в.

PERFIL'YEV was a lleutenant colonel.

A. And KOZLOVi

B.

A colonel:

A. And CHELNOKOV:

B. (XC) ((LOng pauSe)) le came as a captain; thoy made him a major.

A.

well, alright, a captain or a major.

B.

Ycs.

A. Name all of the case officers to took part in the BURGI Case.

B.

KozLov, ((B's surnane))....

A. (1G) .

SECAST

---

## Page 38

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- 17 -

1. No - KOlLo, GUS'ROr aas chief of soction.

A.

So -rUsKov; Anatolly Scrneyarch KOLlO.

B. ((11's surnano) )

1. ((3°g surname))

B. And it was

reported to PULl'IL'YIY, it was reported to GRItANor.

I havo in mind who directly

worked with all theso papers, who had

personal contact with BurGl, and...:

B. With BURGI, personal contact.:..

1. ...And had direct participation In this operation.

B. KOZLOV and ((B's surnamo)).

GUS KOV, as chlof of scction I simpli-say this:

Then, in Klev, PETRINKO -- Chief of the Tourlats Scction. ...

A.

What was PETRENKO called = do you romember?

B. Vladimir, Vladimir, Vladinir; I do not renember the patronymic.

A.

What was his rank

B.

Anjor.

1.

So.

B.

Then a girl from Kiev played the part of the houscleeper of an

apartnent -- HASTYKAYTE, RASTYKAYTE.

A. RASTYKAYTE ((A puts the accent on the second syllable, and B laughs)).

---

## Page 39

104-10227-10004

A larian nano.

A, mat was her tven name:

B. I do not renenber.

And tich there was one more officer who net ninG at the airport In

Kev; as a representative of INtISt... an employou.

A. Mat as his name:

в.

I do not remembor.

A. Rank.

B. I do not remember.

A.

tho olse uns thero:

B. No ono olso..

Mion direct participation in the operation was takon by KOZLOV,

((B's surnamo)), PEIRENKO, RASTINITE and one moro omployeo had --

that makes fivo poople.

B. Yes - those are the five people who had contact with BURGI..

A. Contact with BURGI.

B. I have EUNGI In mind.

A.

And, you think all of these live people spoke with

or saw BUrGI.

B. They

saw him; they saw him, they

sat hin.

Erassai

A.

That part did the First Chief Directorate have

In tils operation:

---

## Page 40

104-10227-10004

- 31 -

B. Absolstole none. ((Pause))

Witis to caroption thnt they had, before koaou and (fug durnane).)

loft Moscow

for the recruttmont in kler...

tho Pirat Nepnrtuent was

told that there wag much-and-such a man to whom therr la prongu.

who sald this:

How van It?

B. To my thinilnt, CHLKALOV.

A.

Then, CHEKALOV

B.

Then, we did it in this way: when the report on the rocrultmont wis

written, on

the rccrultnent... beforo

informing, the chlet of the

directorate, this toport the First Depnitment of the First Chloe

Dircctorato.:

Well, you sald that you rocolved - or that someone had told you that

there was information or n word from the first Chiof Directorato that

thore is a possibility of making an approich to BURGI

B. That la the Second Chlof Directorate spoaking.

It was we tho sald that thore was the possibility to show thom a

report and that there 1s a possibility for recruitment

... "Does 1t

suit you:"

A.

It neans what

-- the Soventh Departient:

The Seventh Department.

A.

Of the Second Chief Directorate.

B. The Second Chlef Directornte.

-... -a cree.

A.

"Let it be knomn"...

---

## Page 41

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P. ((To)) the Fired Sectlon abont the

postholley of pedelnd much a man.

Nade It known to the First Soction of the Firgt Chlor

Mrectornto....

Б. Yes.

A. ...Uf the

notsibility of recrulttn

B. BUKGI..

A.

•. BURGI.

How was the First Department of the First Chlef Directorate actually

made nwaro of such

a possibility:

B. Well, usunlly the report is shown bofore sanction for the rocrustment

is iccolvod.

A. "Thich, from your sido, they showed the report.

Who showed tho report?

B. I do not romenbor if I went ovor with GUS'KOV or...

went with Gus'kov.

think that I

%: Then you vont,.:

+ 3

B. To the First Dopartment...•

A.

...W1th GUS'KOV, to the First Department of the First Chief Directorate.

To seo whom:

• B. The Chief of

the Department.

A. Nell, who:

B. I do not remember now.

I think...

just a minute... I think it was FEKLISOV.

•..e

---

## Page 42

-41 -

104-10227-10004

A. tues was nia corico.

B. On tar etchth floor, room 834 or 135.

I do not renonbor.

1. Maich building

B. Bullding: #2 - that 10, tho new bulldinn, the new bullding.

A. You were there, talkod with PhiLISOr, tell mo want you were tulkin

about then you were there.

B. That there sas tho poustbillty of a recrultment.

A. Who was the ono who said this:

B. I do not reseabor who or how

• it was said.

A

Did you speas or did GUS KOV:

B.

GUS! KOY - he was tho Chief of Section.

A.. So; and that did FiKLISOY say:

B. Ho got acquainted with us, then read... and they sald they have an

interest in this man.

A. Then, PEKLISTi Bald that fUNGI was of intorest.

B. That this san 16 of Intorest.

A. Dut who 18 "this man" - BURGI:

B. Well, yes of course.

A. That else did ho say?.

C:"*

---

## Page 43

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-

Bo 1 do not conenter meat cloo borid; but probally be pot his

stennture.

Mariso saw the report.

A. He sinod of he di not sion.

Certainly, certainly; otherwles, why would se fanlliarlie his with

the report:

He bocane acquainted; and he slung.

ills slinature indiented that they areed that the man was of interest.

Usully mieh this report was soportculy PERFILYEV to GRIPiNOr, it

mas. snid that the First Departnent öf the First Chief Directorate

had boon made familiar - oven FEKLIBOdy signaturo was there - and

that ticy had an interest in the man.

1.. Of nll of thoso persons siom you have named and who took part in

-. •

this ense, wio at ond time or another apponred beforo lunGI in a

Militin uniform, the uniform of the kon, or in sone other unlor:

I have In mind KOZLOV, ((B's surname)), PETTENKO, RASTYKAYTE, and

the Klov employco.

B. To my thinking no ono appeared before him in Militla uniform.

1. And in KGB uniform:

In a military unifom?

B. No, no ono....

A. In a inilway untform:

B.

No.

л.

Then, no one was in untforn

B. No one was.

---

## Page 44

104-10227-10004

A. You are sure of that

1. No one mo.

1. Alrtght,

Now, let us bogin tron here -- how antender wat circustonens and

lig won was it flat decided that there sas renson to forts

DUNGI

How did the Seventh Dopartment cone to the concluston that there wis

lcason

to vor: on BURGI.

How did this happon:

B. ( (Lon: pauso)) The fact that BURGI was on instructor at Yale

Untversity -- an associate professor, a tencler; I do not remember

wether ho uns in litcrature or sonething else but there was something

connected with Russian history or liternture.

I do not renenber.

The fnct that... this fact Itself mates him of interest -- becauso

he teaches students who study Russian history and Ilterature and who

perhaps will work in rovernment service when they have finished school

л. Ок.

B. This fact indicates

that this man is of interest and can "spot"

someone or students:.

1. DUNGI was of interest; he vas an instructor of the Russian language

and Iterature at Yalo Unlversity, in assoctate professor; he krew

students, and so forth and so forth -- and for that renson was of

sonc interest for the KGB, and particularly for intelligence.

What cise:

What other facts indicated that he would be of interest.

There are many professors....

There must be still other facts indicating that he is of interest.

B.. That ras the wain thing - because he taught students who in the

future could work in the State Department, nor's in the Embassy, in

SECRET

---

## Page 45

104-10227-10004

the Anerican Malasay in dorcow; that is, conctne on dussian artairs.

Alright.

B.

That is

tho

basic rcason.

Mach and vio

of these five people you have maned -- In this case, i

#11l focuse attention on KOhLOY and on you -- wo first, fron where

and under mat circunstances, rocolved information on vo le was and

why ho mas coming:

B. I do not remember this, I do not remember this, I lo not remember.

Usunlly, prior to the tourists arrival....

A.

I am talking nbout BUrGI.

I am not talking about tourists in general -- we are taiking only

about BURGI.

B. I do not remember.

A. ((Pnusc)) Well, who was the first to receive this information:

B. ((Pause)) I do not know; I do not know.

I will tell you how it Is alone gonerally.

I am talking to you about bunGI.

What is done usually -- that is the usual thing.

You personally recruited BUrGI.

( (Pause))

B.

Along with KOALOV, I personally recruited BURGI.

A.

I want to establish preciscly -- vho recruited BURGI:

B. KOZLOV and ((B's surnane)).

A.

Then, who was first

:

-SECURT

---

## Page 46

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13. COrin, of course; do in the deputy chied ad the department.

a. mo handled the file on burGl:

B. The collection of the matorial sas by case officer ((r's surnane)).

1. Well, alright.

What uns in

this collection.

B.

questionnaire (ankcta).

1. That kind of a questionnairo:

B. (IG). Tourist who is comine to tho Soviet linion.

A. The questionnaire.

That cise ras there anony theso materials:

B. A notico from

INTURIST.

A. Mat kind of a notice:

B. About his arrival.

Before the arrival of the tourist - notice that a tourist is

supposed to cone in tnird class, or in sccond class, a tourist

for such-and-such a period of time.

Such-and-such an Itinerary before the tourist's arrival in the

Soviet Union is already. set forth deforchand fur INTURIST.

A. Then you received INTURIST's notice about the arrival of BURGI;

then; you have two documents in the collection of satcrial -- the

notice of the arrival and the questionnaire.

What else:

B. I do not reacmber; perhaps also an estract fror the cable that came

fron the Enbassy - that a visa had been Elven to a cortain person.

SECRET

---

## Page 47

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- 40 -

((Pause); A choci: on him in

the records, a check on lilar in the

records of the Pou, and..:

Just a ntnute.

Van thoro an citract fron the cable in this collcotton of materials:

B. . I do not renchber.

Л.

What. clo

was thero in tho

collection of natorials.

B. Checks in the rocords.

A. In what kind of records:

B.

Tho Operationnl Checks Dopartnont of the Zirst Chlof Directorato,

and the checks from the Archlves. Department of the KGB.

A. Who mado the check for the Archivos Departscht of the KGB:

B. Tho caso officer handled this devolopment -- ((3's surnano)).

A:

So -- you chockod tho records of PGU; what did you obtain?

B. It was clean.

There was nothing.

A .

There was nothingi

B. Nothing.

Л.

lihat kind of a remark on the check

was there.

B.

No infornation.

•::

A.

No Inforuation.

inere?

---

## Page 48

104-10227-10004

1 Noithor in tho trairce of tae tot me in lao records of te kGo.

A .

77en, there mis no inforation, nottier here not there, ((Pitse))

110 else chocaod tao folen in concition with the BURGl case

Mao cloc ma chichod

B. No one mas chocked.

A. Then, only BURGI mas checkod:

B. • Well, well, roll, un.

1. Woll, fron this collection of materinls -- you namod the materials -

who cise besides punGs along with slidl had to ho checked, or should

Inve been and mas checkod:

B. . (2-3G) .

A. Holl, that is not important, wother in a group, or not -re are

only talking slout the collection of materials held by ((S's surnano)),

who hnd tho questionnairo, the INTURIST notice.

Only BURGI, and no one elso, was checked through the records, in

connection with the NURGI Caso.

Who cise ins chocked on tho basis of these materials wich you had:

B. I do not know; I do not know.

What do you have in mind?

A. I have in mind - sho else vas checked.

B. I do not understand the posing of such a question.

A. Has Mr. SHIIIll checked; was Mr. IVANOV, PETROV, SIDOROV, checked --

and others to era found in the materials that you had

Or mas It only you mo, as the person responsible for the maturlals,

who checked only BifGI, and there mere no other persons and no need

---

## Page 49

104-10227-10004

to chord otaris.

B. There nore no other personi; I.

told you that there were none.

A. Only HUNGI ras checked, and

there vero no othor persons. ((Pause))

Along with

checking the rocords of the pol, that other chock dld

you malic

in- NGU.

B. ((Pauso)) I do not know; I do not linow.

Then, oxcept for the quctionnaire and tho notice and possibly tho

orcorpt fron the cable, there was the check of the records of the pou.

That ciso ms thero.

B. I do not renember.

I cannot answer you.

Thero voro interials, of courso.

Irimary materials from the Interproter who wag work int with him.

•A.

Who wag tho interpretor?

B. I do not remembor.

A. Why was in interpreter needed:

B.

There was an interpreter, but wily.

A.

Well, who was ho:

B.

I do not remember; I said that I do not remember.

A. You do not remember; then, what other matcrials vere there on BURGI:

What other material:

You must remember.

B. Thero wore materials from the arents mho

vere acquainted with him.

---

## Page 50

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¿. suo tavo me met cane tocoro tho arenes.

Bo I do not rementor: 1 do not renonker: taranoe till you.

A. lian the Interpreter your arenti

D. I do not remember; I do not renchber.

Л.

You do not remember if he is an agent or a couptoo.

B. I do not remember; I do not renember.

Then we will ndd nother man -- although ho was not an oporational

man -- wio saw BURGI as soon as he arrived; they lave him a guido-

Interpreter; it neans, he was thcre:

It you had wanted.

B. But we were talking about opcrational norkers....

A.

I am tolklng nbout au adultional operational worker, and we will

add hin as an interpreter, since he saw SURGIns soon as he had

arrivod; he had an interpreter from mos you could -- if you had

wanted - find out sonicthing.

B.

Right; nuch more can

be added to this, you understand, but I do

not remember this.

Let us say, BURGI visited some kind of an instltute, and he spoke

with goncone.

fron there ((he got)) a littlo pioce of Information - wicther

there's an agent or not.

BURGI was at another place..

Tie will bet to this; I will ask you about this information.

I tell you - do not even asis me, because I do not rencuber what

lind of materials there sure and mat mis there.

---

## Page 51

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10 -

lor, te, tr0l, 1191

• I do not female.

18 per is

20s remanbos, thea you took only a very mall part in lt.

ios are sailar vory inety conclusions.

dot ory sasty ee you had all of the matcrinif;

then

not reins in, li he mug at the institute, and

there

preter, cEs.

To When C14 thay to then

why die they

vas an inter-

B. I haé a thougané pluces of materlal, enough for a year's work --

thougasts of caterlala; and the tourlete also como by the thousands.

And you to not enor not one of then as a cage officer should.

Then, yes do not know about any other materlaly.

Further wag sirst made the sugrention to vor!!

on BURGI:

Bo. I do not concker such... i cannot answer such questions.

Usually the sorr does on there lilie 5o -- you receive some kind of

materiala; you report to the chief of soctión..:

1. Onc minute.

I do not seed to know how things usually to; I vant to know who first

made tas sugacation thnt thore Is sone basis for work on BurGI.

в.

(XG) to sort on sin, before ills arrival....

((in Engissh)) Alright, Alricht.

They have reported that the wor! must be done.

Tho

lirst Iade the sugrostion to work on his recrultment.

was the first to make the suggestion:

B. I do not ¿non.

1510:

А .

((Pause))

If inforuation

was received that there vas a basly for

---

## Page 52

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port on luaGe, lt van reported to 111606, and tl eet further

alone amon the chlofa for cesplatton a to recrull ((him)).

No st1ll will roturn to this.

Un ton

wint kind of arents vorked on hir

Be The Intorpreter from INTURISI.

A.. But ho was not an agent.

.B. I do not renember, I do not reneabor who ho was -- in agent or a

trusted person.

I do not renenher.

If I renembered, I vould tell.

1. Is thie tho answer of the caso officer who handled the BURGI case.

Ois -=

there vas the interpreter from INTUNIST; but you do not know

1f he vas

an agent or not.

B.

No -- that 18 not right; I sinols do not remenher tho from lTURIST

worked with him as an interpretor.

1. I ashod you: what kind of agents woried against bulGI when he was

in the Soviet Union:

Your answer vas:

there was an INTURIST interpreter, but you do not

know who ther he was an agent or not - that Is your reply.

Who else participated in the case.

This wag the first interpreter.

Who was the second.

B:

One

of those who showed hin places which he visited.

A.

Fell, name ((hlm)).

B. I do not reuenver; I do not icon.

---

## Page 53

104-10227-10004

A. Mull none at longt ond agent who corted....

D. 1 do not know; i cannot none ((one)).

A. ihy

I do not romember; I cannot remember.

A. Then you cannot nang anyonc. else

To developed BunGl file he was in Moscow, when the caso wag weing

prepared for his recruitment. ((Pauso))

Then hero la another, sinilar question.

that kind of aunts sere "planted" with BURGI then he camo to Moscow:

? do not remember, I do not remomber -- with the exception of tho

agent, STHOYEV.

A.

iao is STROYEV!

B. An agent of the Second Departmont.

A.

Of the Second Dopartment:

B. Yes..

A.

That Is that, a cryptonym -- STROYEV?

B.

cryptonym.

A.

B.

Woat is his first nane, patronymic and surnane:

I do not remonber his last nane, I have said his

viktor, Viistor.

name.

A.

Has he an agent

of the Second Department

---

## Page 54

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: -

b. lis; a nooserial.

How, ten, and under want circunstances did you fet stiover. from

tie Second Dopestinare:

B.

If you insist so, I cannot ansver.

I do not remember, I do not remember.

A.. Nell, one cannot to and say, "Well, I went to tale your STROYEY":

B. No, no; of course not.

Neil, you make a request.

A homosexual (XG).

I heard thnt they had a homoscxual.

N: My, In the given case, did you

need

precisely STROYEV and precisely

a homosexual:

B. I do not romember from where we got the first indication that he

had such a tendency.

I do not remember, I do not remember.

But thore was a basis for using just such an agent.

A roport was vrltton on conducting (yes: ) measures.

A. ((1n English)) Just a sccond.

If you had materials on BURGI... there had to be matertal and an

indication.

B. Right, right, right.

A. Of bis inclination:

Fron where and under that etrcunstances did you receive this:

B. I do not renember.

A, To else among the agents participated in the case.

---

## Page 55

104-10227-10004

B. I do not remenber.

A. ((Pause)) Mich, and under wiat circunstanees, and by whon was tho

surrestion first made that the time had come to reuth a recrultment

operation

or recrultment neasurcs.

B. This etill is not recruitment measures -- the receipt of compromising

materials.

After you receive compromising material....

A.

I am saying -- when, and under what circumstruces, and by from was

the sugiestion flyst made to conduct recruitment measures:

B. When compromising untorials had been received, there was tho

suggcstion..

A. How, thio, and under what circumstances....

B. ((Angrily)) I do not know, I do not know then, how, and who, and

under that circumstances = I do not know.

I cannot tell you.... Second Section, Seventh Department, second

Chief Dircctorate.

A. And where vas ((B's surname)):

B. In the Second Section, Seventh Departmont, Second Chief Directorate.

A .

What was he doing?

В.

He was handling the development of this tourist. (2G)

A .

then, and under want circumstances, did you personally neet BURGI

for the first time:

в.

In Klev, when he vas taken from the airport to a safchouse on

Kreshchatil. Street.

---

## Page 56

104-10227-10004

A. At a safchouco (0t) on Kroshchatil Stret in kler.

sow tell e brietly too vas le plamed to obtata comprontoln!

materini on LunGI:

B. I do not remembor:

there was Indication that probably he wis n

homoscaunl (XC) STROYEV - hc became acquainted with him.

Л.

low, and undor what circuitances, and that lorend is riven to

STROYLV in order to heconu acquninted with BURGI:

B. I do not remember.

A. This is the case officer who handlod tho caso and ho does not know.

B. I simply do not remenber.

A. It was your firet caso. ( (Long pauso))

Then you do not renember how STROYFV not with BURGI for the first

timo; and undor what circumstances:

B. I do not remember.

A. There did they first neet.-

B. In Klev.

A.

Where did they meet the second time:

B.

((Pause)) It seems the mecting wag hold in the Grand Hotel (XG)

that sane building (XG).

A .

Fell, how, under what circumstances,

did BURGI and

STROYEV find

thenselves in this hotel room:

Ilow ans this planned.

B. I do not renember, I do not renember.

6........:

---

## Page 57

104-10227-10004

stRoyer invitod hln.ln.

A. He could not invite him without inatructlons....

B. Of course not, lie was instructed

= lon, wint, everythinu; he wag

instructed.

1. Do you remember the room numbor.

B. I do not remenbor the room number now.

But this is the only room in the hotel with the

mirror (terkal'ko).

(XG)

A. • Well, what monsures were trich wich BURGI and STROYEV were in the

hotel room at that timo:

B.

They photor rapliod him (XG),

How was this done:

B.

NOw:

taken.

Through tho mirror on the vall of this room, the photoriaphs wero

1. How many pioures were taken:

B. I do not remembor.

A.

Well, you had them In your matorials.

в.

Well, I do not remember mother they vere there; twelve, fiftcen....

A.. Fifteen, twenty, forty, onc,

two.

B.

Woll, now, twelve, fiftcen; ten, fifteen.

---

## Page 58

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л.

What

stac were

the photo, rapin

B. The usual a nine by trolve ((contineters)).

A.

Did the pictures turn out well.

B. Toll, there they were....

1. In what condition vere BURGI and STROYFY In the room before and

nfter

tho completion of their

act:

B. They vere drugsed, and then thcy took: off their clothos.

A.:

Miere vere they beforo thoy went to

the hotol:

B. Tlicy wore in n. restaurant.

A. Thoro

B. I do not renember; I thin: STROYEV had wine or

something in his room.

A. Wero they drunk.

В. No, по.

A. What happened lator after they completed their not:

The photos were taken.

What ins donc.

3. Luter, a report was mitten on

the recruitrent (2G).

A. I have that same cvening in nind.

D. Nothlor. (1-?6)..

• 43

A. Miere did BURGI gO

---

## Page 59

104-10227-10004

mytr

did strea

150

13.

I do not anor.

1.

more core you at that time

B. In Hoscow.

1. Micro.

B. I do not

rercaber,

I do not icnonber.

((Pause)) 0i8 -- mun the plutorrnpus were taken -- I vas in tho

next room; I ms in the nest room.

1. ((Long pouse)) If you were in the next roon, how is it you do not

know what happonod later, where did BURGI and STROYEV 50.

B. I do not rendaber exactly, I do not remember.

A. ((Pauso)) How many times moro did STROYEV and BiGI meet

after this

B. .

It suens they did not meet mrain.

л.

How many times did STROYEV and DURGI meet before they completed

this act:

D. I do not remember; I do not regember.

A.

tho gave the Instructions to STOV -- "Hero, lf you plense, &o..."

B. I, with LOUDlOV at (1G).

With case orficer LOPUMIOV, to (2G) ....

1. Then, hero m must add LoPubior to those to partictunted in this

operation.

TORA

---

## Page 60

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-: =

!:. lio, the acent.

instructions to the mont (20) .

A .

mon, mo move instructions to S107 that lo to to buaGl... to make

love.

B. LOPUS - ((D's surnamo)).

Л.

LOPUJIOV - ((D's surname)).

smoro did you mect SilOYE, and mero did you llve hin instructions:

B. I do not remember, I du not renember; I thin: 1t was in a hotol.

A.

In which hotel:

I do not renomber.

Well, thon what - LopuJlov and you met only once when you rave

instructions to STROYEV in the BunGi caso:

B. Well, thon; after the moctinn, after the mecting, alter he met, wo

Baw, I and LOPUKIOV saw, I saw hin alone.

Then, I saw him again after the pictures were developed.

Perhaps STOVIV could add sonething, - something about him ( (BURGI.)).

STROYEV even wrote soncthing about him, about the conversations

they had, what they tallied about.

A. What did they talk about?

B. I do not reuember:

A. This must have been in your file.

B.

Of course, it must be in the collection of naterials.

1. Did BURGI pay STROYEV, or did STROYEV pay BURGI:

SESHEI

---

## Page 61

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- I.

8o, 80, 10, 10, 10.

Л.

men did you recelve

the photographs

i:.

On the following day, lt scene.

He ashod that they be developed inneulately.

Л

What then.

what stops vere taken?

B.

This vas reported to cus'rov, to KOLLOV; It was shown to perIL'ycy.

A. It uns reported to GUS'KOV, to KOLLOV, to PERFIL'YI.

And to thon olso:

D. Well, that is all...

and thoy hoean..

wroton report.

.

A. Well, wroto a roport. for wint:

B. For the rocruitmont.

For tho recruitmont.

B.

The recruitmont talk.

A. For the rocruitment or for the rocrustment talk

B. That 1s tho same thing.

A .

Tho same thing:

B. The rccruitnent tall Is the iccrultment.

It is anothcr thing when you are carrying on a recrultment tall, and

you do not know if the recrultment will be accomplished or not.

A. A report is not written on a recruitment talk.

SECRET

---

## Page 62

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1.

Well for the recruttment ee a asle for your canetion..

The report vas addreased to senor.

A. Mh0 signed

the report:

B. GRICUiOV.

A.

Who else:

B.

PiNFIL'YEY signed at the hotton, and also there vas FEILISOV's

signaturo.

1. So.

When ald you actually, or in lact open the file on MNGI:

B. They dld not open a file on ain.

Before 1960.: here 15 a detail - on recruituent talks and

rccruitments, wo did not open files.

But a whole collection of materials - stamped Top Secret; Sorios "K

was addressed to SABIAROSKIY, and tha, having alrcady recolved the

materials - tho First Departsent....

1. Well, alright; valt a minute -- what:

Did they not open a file on munGi beloro 1960, or did they not open

any .file at all before 1960:

B. I an tolling you that, prior to 1960

I was worked In 1059, 1

handled the recruitnent of tourists; but ve did not open a files

with the exception of those on employees

of tourist firms.

May:

-

Because this agent, a recruitca

Iorcigner... we will not be working

with hin... he was temporarily in the Sovlet Union....

A. ((in English)) Alricht.

In the clven casc, the BURGI Casc, after all the comprorising

---

## Page 63

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-ü..

interlal, ete., had been toccired, all of this materink ins sont to

the First Chief Directorate.

D. Miter the rccruitment, adter the recruitment ee after the foretoner's

departure, the anterinis are sent to the first Chict Dircctorato..

1l1 of the materials.

A. To whom did you address them.

B:

TO SALAROVSKIY.

A. TO SMOIAROVSKIY; Mint as SAMAROVSKY's position nt that time:

B. Chief of the First Diicctorato.

A."Mlore precisely.

B. Chief of the First Chief Directorate.

1. :The First Chicf Directorate:

• Rank:

B:

Major General.

A. Major Goneral.

You are

certain that SAXIAROVSKIY was Chlef in 1956:

5. Yes, yes.

A. During what nonth did all of this business with BURGI go on?

B. July.

A.

June.

B. July.

---

## Page 64

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- GI

A.

July.

Do jon not remember the date wien

the photograpis tore taken.

I do not reacmber.

A. Tica, you told'ne.

hin.

that wen CUNGI mag in Moscor jou did not meet

B. No.

A. Men did LUNGI go to Klev:

B.. I do not remember.

A. What instructions were Elven to klev In regard to BURGI - when,

by whom, and how?

B. Kiev was told by VCh that KOZLOV and ((B's surname)) will come with

regard to the American tourist... that we would talk it over ((shen

ve got there)).

A .

Who talked by VCh:

B. I do not remember.

370.

A .

that was said by VCh:

B. I already have said that ((it was)) in regard to the American

tourist, BURGI (XG) .

When and how were the Instructions given to Kiev to

meet BURGI at

the airport:

B. It was already know in Kiev.

A. Did PURGI go to Kiev first, or did you:

---

## Page 65

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13.

te flex out carlter.

Л.

To flew out

B. KOwLOv and ((B's surnone) ).

Л.

KOsLOv and ((B's surnarc)); who clso.

B.

No ono cise.

A.

STROYEV was not ((along.)):

B. No.

Was there not nother hemosesual:

B. There was

not.

A. And a homoscrual from Klov:

B. . lic did not uso one.

A.

And you did not invite one from Odessa?

B.

No.

Then there was not any of the honosexuals in kiev with BURGI:

B. No, they were not used.

A. Are you sure of this.

B. No; they were not used; absolutcly (2-3G).

A. ((Pauso)) Ilor many days were you in kiev before BURGI flew in:

---

## Page 66

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- i.: -

8. (raune)) I thin: ve arrived tac day defore, in the eventu.

A. The night before

Во 10б, уо0.

Л.

iS1 also flow in:

D.

on the following day, on the followin: day.

A. On the following day.

0%.

Tho act him.

An officer from tho Kiev Sccond Diroctornie, fron tho Turlst Suction;

net hit - I do not remember his inme -- under the cover of a

"INTURIST" representativo.

..A. How did they leave tho airport.

•B. In an autonobilo.

A. that kind of an automobilo:

B. In as autonobile; INTURIST Cave them a car (2G) .

Who ras driving the nutomobilo.

B. I do not remember; I do not know.

1. Nell, hat -- 1n a taili

That belonged to the Kiev KGB:

Did the automobile belong to INTURIST:

B. I do not know; I do not remember such dotails - if it belonged to

INTUZIST or to the KGB.

---

## Page 67

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Tro not conchixi.

А.

Te all would have had to have beca rocked out.

They could not thie a driver sont off the atree.

Of courne; they look an autorobile

From INTURIST or the koi.

You are responstble for tile case.

You cauu oni

the day before; you vere

to have worked out nil tho

plans.

How did you come to the conclusion that a man fron INTURIST vas

supposed to not cunGI, how uld you seloct a chauffour, on vat

basis did you select IVNiO and not PETROV:

And from vero did he como.

B.

The automobtle, I think, was fron

ras from the KGB.

INTURIST, or maybe the automobilo

A. Then, you - as tho responsiblo case officer for this case - do

not know.

B. I simply do not romember.

A. Then the automobile us either from INTURIST or from KGB.

B. Pron LITURIST OF iGB.

1.

You do not I:now who was the driver.

в. Мо.

A. And wo was the employec fron INTURIST:

B. There ras no enployce fron liTtlISt.

There vas a KGB

euployee frou thu Second Directorte representing

hugele as an caployec of munist.

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## Page 68

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"it me the now

i do not rescabel.

It secas travo the wear ((carlier)).

I do not cronier lt now.

Tall me trtorly sat you ald cita nehot in ster:

B. He ins not. by this choloyee, and they tot in the eas; the rent

from the airport to tom.

• In the nutomobilo the employee apoise with bURGI tolllor him that

the hotols in litey were fillod up, that there vere conferences tolny

on - "thercioro, we apologio", - and tempornrily perhnps ho

could have to stay for perhape a day or tro in one of the apartments

watch INTURIST rents in the conter of tom.

Ile mas

told that ho vould be lousud temporally.

Is soon ne thero would to n roon available in the INTUNIST llotol,

he would be Imncdiately transferred.

"Plonso cicuse us, ote, for ono or two days".

OK.

He arreed.

Bo, Tiell, lihat he can do:

A. Nell... you do not romeuber the apartment on leshchatik Stroot.

B. On leshchatil:, a toll building.

A. los many rooms did this apartment tave.

B. Thice 1'00ms.

A. fell... you brought him there.

tho ras with bia, with BUNGI there:

B. Fell, he drove him and wont up with hin.

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## Page 69

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Then lie told con;.

nad eacre, la the spartacut, dore 10410% ind

((o'e puriane)) .

A. inno

cine ms there

P. There

ins a cirl -- instratat was there.

pErnico - I do not rononter 1? he vas there at that tlie or le he.

had stopped out and returnes soon.

A.

Well, tell hor (2G):

B. Tha door vas ojened... the tell rang - "Please come in".

Thc fellow put doin

the sulteasse, BUlGI's sulteisc, and ho loft...

Ilc lott.

And we invited ((BUNGI)) to enter the room.

A.

Well, then, BURGI ms brount ((there)); he sent upstairs, and tho

INTUNIST employce carried his suitcase.

B. -

Yes.

And the suitcase...

he went up together with him..

A:

And went up with hia and with sis sultcase.

And that did ther do with the other sultease... and witk the third ono:

((Sailine)) I cannot roply to sich questions of yours in such a

sequence.

Well, then, why did you mentios this

suitcase.

I lave in mind the suitcase with the clothing, with the clothing.

A :

Now I havo a question a are you sure that SURGI and his belongings

vere brought there, to this apartent, us soon as they arrived there.

B. I thin': that his suitcase ins taien....

SEST.

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## Page 70

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A. liot "I thine so nore preciscly, nore proclari.

I. "I do not renember;

I do not comontar; 1 do not recenter.

л.

ilow am

I supposed to understand jou - that a man case, lo with

cuncle sultease, on dld they cone sithout nungrts sultento

B. Understand it ng you wish: I do

not renomber:

1. Then thy nie you tolling it if you do not remenior

((Long, pauso)) Well, unster my question.

You vero tho case officor for this case, ote; mat did you pornonalis

and the other KGD employoes who vore with you do with bURGla

belongings willo ho was in the Kreshchattk apartient and whore vere

his sultcases:

B. ((Long pauso)) Mnt do you havo in aind.

A seizuro was not conducted here.

1..

I do not havo o soliuro in ratnu.

I sliply am noking miero vore hits belongsing at that timo.

B.: I do not r'enember. whether thu sultcase was brought up or vas in

the automobilo.

•I do not remombor.

A. How many suitenses vero there.

B. I do not remember.

A.

Then did they return BuNGI's beloncings

his suitcases

to hin:

B. Later that sune day, ihen the discusston sas finissed.

It ras lato.

1. Tore vere they before that

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## Page 71

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up the gultcases; now, that

thog were in the autoionle or sonchore,

id ench, they returned thon lair at nint.

Wherg fore they.

B. One minuts..

Why are you takin: the inct out et place.

You are conductin a tendentious interrogatlon... olvlously...

obviously tendentioug...

It 1a clcar, clear....

A. Nothing of the kind, nothing tendentious.

B. Only that way, only that way; like all of tho procodiny days.

A. The caso officer sho was resporefale for this case - he know what.

he was doing.

P. Thother the suitcase was brought up to the apament or left in

autonohtle -1 do not roncuber.

He ((tho case officer)) know..

B. I do not rencaber; i do not rezester.

At the end of the discussion Bundi sas driven by the same automobile

to tho INTURIST Hotel: (30) .

A. Hell, how long, was the discussion:

B. I an afraid to say:

thoro was a discussion and then they all sat

down to ent.

Altor they left the tahle, they talied again; then they again went

bac!, to the tablo.

It vag a long tine

A. How lon: did It last - in hour, tro, ten, fifteen

SECRET

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## Page 72

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i. It

lasted nious five bours.

N.

Appro: tately mies, tat tine, is BulGI delivered to tie hotel.

R.

Approximately, approximately, aiter ten in the evenino.

le vas

left aloze.

п.

((Pauso)) He-mas left alono.

Ils was watched, of course ly surveillance, in case he might send a

tolcuram, or make a phono call.

A.

How many men were matchint. hin:

B.

I do

not know how many men were tailing him.

A. Who sot up the tail:

B. The Sccond Directoratc

on direction.

A. On whose dircctions.

B. At the roquest of KOhLOV and ((B's surname)).

A .

well, you aslod.

How many men did you as!: for - ten, twenty?

B. It was asked that

a brigade ratch hin.

A. How many men:

B. We did not specim how nany... three or four men,

or...

discussed.

((Pauso)) They mire cold that....

It was not

A.

That lind of instruttons tore Elven and sho save thes to tho

SEGRET

•

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## Page 73

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smolllance.

The Instructions weep liven by..

PATHETZO.

1. How much -- PETRENKO knew about this operation.

You were responsible for this operation.

B. What !lnd of Instructions.

The only thing told to the surveillance sas to watch him and set

1t up

In suci a way that they not be noticed by the man tailed...

that we were interested in his possibly nailink ((something)), in

whether he showed up at the telegraph office and his bchavlor.

A .

So, what instruction vas given agents in event that he came out of

the hotel took a taxi and left'

Б.

"ell, to observe him, whicie he went.

A. If he went to the railway station, got a ticlict, and lcit:

B. He could not do that.

They would not give him a ticket.

•He had to do this all through iNturISt.

INTURIST solls the ticket.

A.

What kind of instructions were given to the surveillance against

the cont that the man in his desperate situation decided to run

away to any place.

в.

Survoillance was only to witch and to do nothing but inforn

us.

1. Very well.

He comes to the railuny station, finds a bilitia man and explains

everything to the Militla ((rhat thea. )).

B. The lllitla mould send him back to INTImIST.

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## Page 74

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- 73 -

mere to nothing they could do for ata.

INTULIST carries on contret rith interpreter.

A. Well, he arrives at titorist

aid start antidog noises; then wint

B. INTURIST also tinodiatoly will Infom the opcratlomal offleer.

1. Very well.

If he rous to some povcrnment office enrly In the morning and ho

tells them

what happened

nu starts argular - "wat litud of order

Is there

in the Soviet Union

Loo; at want they nu doing to me!"

B. Miere, where can he 60:

1.. On the street, on the street, and he will be shouting in the stroets.

B. No, never in history has it happened.

л.

It has happened, and not unly once.

Б •

I do not know - not on the street.

1. You worked there; you must know of such instances -- they lappened.

B. He could go only one place - to INTUTIST, INTURIST, and tell them

what happened.

A. As man finds hluself in a desperate situntion, and he linows thnt

INTURIST is connected with this -- he goes to

the rallway station,

or he takes a tril to the airport, etc. and starts

explaining his

situation; that he is a foreigner,

that he is a professor, and ho

will leave until they call:..

((XG; A and B sponk at the same time. ))

B.

You are takins

an exception as an exaaple.

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## Page 75

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.i!.

In tite case, the tall could make know spere he ind tond and mirt

should be done.

(&G)

The questlon that he rould creape, songwhere did not arive.

A. Arlent, ho does to the

port piflee and sends a toleran: wint next.

The teleuran

would not he sent

without the sanction of the kiev

Second Dircetorate:

A.: Why would It not be sent? ((Pause))

Who bavo the instructiong:

I asiod onco; I am asking a second tino -- now alu you Elve

instructions:

What dld you say.

If you

were

there, you nust inow

in detall.

B. I am

tellinr. you.

What aro you asking about - the survillanco:

A.. He started talking about tie survoillanco.

I say - at night he sets up, and

HOCS

the tall supposed to do:

to send a telegram; what 1s

B. The tail 1e supposed to notify tho

case officer.

That ls all.

A.

Whom:

B. PETRENKO.

A. Why PETRENKO:

B. Because he is the local san; he maintains contact with them.

A. PETRENKO cannot make the decision; you are responsible for this case.

What does PETRIiKO do?

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## Page 76

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A. KOSLOV and ((B's surnane))..

A. On: ee have renched tho end.

full, where did ((l's surnane)) spend the niht a the sirst nicht

he was in Kiev:

в. .

In a hotol.

1. Ill which ono."

B.:

io - with KOZLOV - also stayed at the INTURIST notol, on nother

floor.

1. Whnt is tho namo of the hotel:

B.

INTURIST.

A..

Thoro 1s it situatod?

..I do not romembor".

A. Thon, you stayod at the sano INTURIST hotol as cURGI, but on anothor

floor.

B. On the othor

side.

A. How far was this from BURGI:

B.

I do not kaow how far.

I did not mensure it.

It was on another flcor.

d.

Did you listen to BURGI; in his room.

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## Page 77

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- ?1;

li.

A. If ho vero to phone...

R.

eh, telephone, telephone ee of course; on

the

button.

Л.

Ycs.

B. The tolephone was put on a button, on a button.

((Pauso)) nio chler of

tiio

otol service. was contacted, and INTURIST

wag told to Inform the KGB If BUlGI roquested nnything.

1. Now much tina. ald you spond in kle on the nuiGI caso:

B.

Well, we cane day beforo ((BUNGI arrivod)); that mas the first day.

I think we spont four days ln all, threo or four days.

1. Mero did you stay all of this time?

B. Wint - llvo:

We only spent the night In the hotel, becruso wo ilways were lato.

A.: Then you stayod at

the same hotel and you did not change rooms.

B. No.

1. And BUNGI also stayed in the sanc room all the time.

B. Yes.

A. Then, you did not mect him in lloscow.

Tell me how and under what circunstances you met hin for the flist

time in Kiev.

D. Fell, when he came to the apartent.

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## Page 78

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- 7?

A.

And how did you litroduce yourscle.

1. I du not renchber:

I do not remember.

A. How did you address him.

B. At the beginning, lid, and after that, during the discussion, ag

Richard, Richard..

Л.

ok; how did he address you.

B. I do not remember; I du not renember.

1. How did ho addruse KOzLov:

B.

I also do not remonbor.

A. PETRENKO.

B. I do not remembor..

How did NOZLOV introduco himsole to him:

B. I do not remember.

A. How did PETRENKO introduce himself:

B. I do not remember; (XG).

1. Well, what did ho call KOzLOV:

B. I do not renember.

A.

You do not remember how you introduced yourself; did you give him

your name.

SEET

---

## Page 79

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Bane ee wint clad a but too not concier.

A. 05i wat icind

of a nano did korlOY rive.

B. I also do not remember.

A.

B.

I do not reneuber.

1. Viell, how did lic call you --"iley, you ((faulllar form

• - ty)?":

B... (XG) ..

A.

Well, rocrustnent mensures are taken; probably more or loss n

fricndly talk roos on; you have to establisi what you nre going to

call each other; for instanco, Ivan Innovich.

B. But I do not remembor whether I have him my surname or I said "Yurly"

л.

You could not say, "Ilcy, you ((familiar form - ty))."

B.

Well, as "lL ((polito form - you))

A. One cannot just say "vy" 1f he vants to say, "vy, como hore.".

B. No, he would simply say, if

he vants to use sompotlins, "I would

I1ko to ask this or that."

You can

address a person without calling him by name.

A .

One cannot always go without namos; you called him by name.

((XG; A and B speak at tho samo time.))

B. But that ras in

the beginning; and then, it began by names.

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## Page 80

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- 71! -

but he aldo

nuat call you

bo:

sOnc

none.

11.

But, jou underntand, I do

not remember, I do not renonher.

Wld no call you by name

в .

I do not romentor, l do not remember.

What

— linvo you forgotten your name?

B.

do not romember whother I rave him my own ((namo)) or anothor.

Woll, toll no about your activities with BuRGI in Klev; what did

you porsonally do:

• (End of Reel #13))

merinG el chen lace code 0099020222000 08 785483

SECRET

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