Agency: FBI
Originator: FBI
From: SULLIVAN
To: BRANIGAN
Document date: 07/16/1964
Document type: PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

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JFK Assassination System

Identification Form

Agency Information

Date:

5/21/201

AGENCY :

RECORD NUMBER :

FBI

124-10333-10009

RECORD SERIES:

HQ

AGENCY FILE NUMBER: CR 65-68530-157

Released under the John

=. Kennedy

Assassination Records

collection det of 1992

144 USC 2107 Notel.

Case#:NW 53244 Date:

06-13-2017

Document Information

ORIGINATOR :

FROM:

TO :

TITLE:

FBI

BRANIGAN

SULLIVAN

DATE: 07/16/1964

PAGES:

132

SUBJECTS :

ANATOLI GOLITZYN

DOCUMENT TYPE: PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

CLASSIFICATION: Secret

RESTRICTIONS: 1B

CURRENT STATUS : Redact

DATE OF LAST REVIEW: 08/04/1998

OPENING CRITERIA: APPROVAL OF CIA

COMMENTS: MEMO, INC TRANSCRIPT

v9.1

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the period 1953 to 1955 he claims he was reading files, and then

he began to work on correspondents, and to do some work with

code clerks. What was he doing between 1955 and 1957, 1958?

Do you have any idea?

He worked in the American Department against the Embassy

personnel. That could be against military, correspondents.

don't recall the situation but I think in 1953 or so, 1954, he worked

on military (American) and I think he could have gone along those

lines until 1958.

Do you know why he was transferred from the American

Department?

Yes. That is another thing. He says -- and again I think he

lies -- that he had some, I mean finally he acknoledged that in

1954 he had some troubles with woman and got an unpleasant

illess, and in that way he had troubles and was punished. But

as I recall it, these things happened in 1957 or 1958, and that

was practically the reason why he was dismissed from the

American Department, why he was sent to the Tourist Department.

So here he also twists the facts. It is a lie because it very clearly

supports his explanation about his career in those years. That

also of

course -- now it canbe only a conclusion. He claims

that he was accepted in the Party--that he joined the Communist

- 8=

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organization had begun investigation -- also that the FBI too -- in

the field of State Department, CIA. Evidently, their information

was that the investigation can lead to the exposure of their

recruitments, their, agents. Therefore, they decided to send an

agent with a mission to be introduced, to American intelligence, to

get the confidence of American intelligence in order first of all,

in a long range sense, to find out your interests; then - this is

more important -- to give misinformation mainly on question of

penetration.

Only by that kind of reasoning can we explain

NOSENKO's statement that he worked in that section in that

period; that he was in a position to know that. And on the basis

too can be under stood why he said that there were no recruitments

of Embassy personnel - that there were only approaches, except

for STORSBERGO

the same time he said that there is no

penetration in CIA and according to his inforration -- I quote

main points which in my opinion are important - 'KGB does not

read American military codes, ciphers". The same applied to

the "ciphers of Ambassador"'. And he says "only a little of

State Department" traffic was read. And he said that "there

are no agents in American Embassy".

No American agents.

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Yes, without question.

And to know it in détail enough to give him the advice or

counsel, the guidance, and the brief so that he would be able to

make the contacts.

It is not his knowledge, it is their lie which was.

But they had to know something very definitely.

That lie was worked out on the basis of very exact infor-

mation about.

The state of affairs.

Yes. And about our problems.

They would not have necessarily gotten that out of CIA, they

could have gotten it out of other.

They could get it through different and through many channels --

through French, through British, but then we cannot exclude an

American channel too:

Yes. But not just CIA. It could be CIA.. I think it is

important, because when he first came out, he was almost aroused

you know: "What can I do to help?" -- but later because of his own

character - he is a drunk and he is a woman chaser

- he got

difficult. But his line, the way he presented himself was exactly

as you say: "I'll do everything, I am at your service."

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Where would GRIBANOV fit into this?

As one of the supporters of that operation.

He would have put the plan forward.

Yes. On behalf of the Second Chief Directorate. There is no

i question.

But do you believe that he was a close friend of NOSENKÖls.?

No. That is completely wrong..

NOSENKO has gone back on that, by the way. He now has said

he only saw him once of twice.

At this point, we can discuss the VIADUCT aspect.

It is here

that NOSENKO has a connection with the VIADUCT mission. (VIADUCTE

was sent, I think, with two missions: first, to mislead about French

situation; and second, to get access to me in England

to get access

to me in order to influence my writing and so on. It is interesting

that he was sent to England

Maybe, in that way, there were some

they knew that I was in England out they did not know that lalready

had left. He came in September; I left in August.

It is, of course,

interesting that he came to England la I think that was [IADUCT 1e)

mission in general. As they evidently got back information that

(ViaDucT a not succeed in his mission, that he himsel was

under some suspicions, they apparently began to think now to do

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more drastic things to improve situation and in that way they began

to act with NOSENKO in view of defecting in the beginning of 1964.

We don't know certainly, evidently in 1962 they did not plan to

sent NOSENKO out.

To have him defect?

Yes.

But certainly in 1962 some of the things that NOSENKO said

later appeared in the VIADUCT operation. The bit about WATKINS,

the Canadian Ambassador; the bit about DEJEAN. Jes)

In that way,

I don't mean they built up DEJEAN operation at

that time, even maybe earlier, but ray point is they apparently

did not plan his defection from the beginning

Not NOSENKO. All I am saying is that it is a quite clear that.

the same guiding hand that rán the NOSENKO operation also rán the

VIADUCT operation.

Yes.

You see, besides American situation they were, of

course, disturbed by situation in France. ]e)

And Britain too.

"Yes.

And also you have an additional fact that as each operation took

place you had the sources or penetrations reporting back the results.

- Yes. The results were cumulative, a very flexible situation.

Between VIADUCT's coming and NOSENKO's coming there is very

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The journalist, Jack RAYMOND

So this whole story of the escape and his being shot. • •

It is nonsense, of course, without question. And here of course

as it has connection it is important that besides support of

cherepanov's documents, NOSENKO tried to assure that VIADUCT

is completely genuine.

And that CHEREPANOV thing really happened.

No, I mean besides CHEREPANOV - that is clear. But he

also showed that VIADUCT is genuine defector; and he not only

which

showed that but he also supported all information/was given by

VIADUCT On DEJEAN.

nd it is also, of course, important how

they built up that situation during NOSENKO's defection in

Switzerland and in France.

May. I go back to the CHEREPANOV thing again? This shows

an under standing of how they work, Do you remember the timing,

now -- this is the 4th of November 1963 -- at the same time this

was going on you had the BARGHOORN incident with which

NOSENKO is very obviously identified -- you know, he came into

the BARGHOORN operation. Now, he was, according to his story,

at that time (in 1963) in the Tourist Department -- one of the Deputy

Chiefs of the Toyuist Department.

He was deeply involved in the

BARGHOORN operation and presumably,as one of the Deputy Chiefs,

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Like dominoes.

Hit one and they all fall.

Everything is interconnected, over and over'and over again.

And that makes for them; of course, very difficult to do anything

in the future.

That is right. It contradicts the. •

'because it should be and that of course makes our situation

easier.

Why do you think they have gone so far - at least it seems to

me far too far -- in interconnecting everything? In other words,

it is almost too obvious. One thing is linked to the other, and in

turn is linked to the other. Why do you think they did so much of

that?

Let me just go further in your statement. When VIADUCT came

to England, there were many, people involved. Only those people who

knew Anatol had doubts about him -- everybody else believed in his

bona fides. So, if they had a penetration they would have a feeling

that he was going over very nicely. And there were a number who

thought he was the hottest thing that ever existed.. The same goes,

for NOSENKO. Because of the impact of the information and the

fact that they would never know that we were still in direct and

immediate communication in which he was getting information and

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putting his fingers on these matters. In other wirds, if we did'not

have Anatol and were working only from the information, it is quite

possible that he would be in a senior advisory position. This goes

for [VIADUCI with the British and certainly goes for NOSENKO here,

because up until very recently the FBI believed that NOSENKO was

the most important single element that they had ever seen.

Oh, yes. In géneral, you see, evidently they build up that,

because their operation was successful. And, in my opinion, first

of all they had success with PENKOYSKIY. After PENKOVSKIŸ,

they introduced NOSENKO, and evidently they had information that

he was doing well. And in that way, they saw that there would be nò

danger to connect him with VIADUCT, or with CHEREPANOV.

His report back to Moscow after the first meeting must have

been the greatest window they had - in one sense - of contacts

and so on.

Absolutely•

And here of course again the question: why was his introduction

to Amarican intelligence done in 1962; and, namely, when NOSENKO

came to your people in Geneva and says: "I have important infor

mation for you."ì What is it?. First of all, BELITSKIY =- he is

provocateur of KGB. Certainly they could assume that I know that

about BELITSKIY. But we also cannot exclude that at that time

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S Yes.

M That hasn't been ratified. The treaty has not been ratified. It won't

even come up for debate probably for many months.

S

And that was certainly dangerous point for future. And then he also

has his hopes. If he could be for certain period led to believe that

he could be tried, it would be useful. But, of course, he is not

afraid because it makes prestige for him in the future and he comes

back -- he could be exchanged in the way the British did with LONSDALE.

But that's why the KGB is and will be more active with provocations.

Of course, I understand they were eager to save WYNNE because

there was big pressure there.

M

What I'd like to ask if we could do is in preparation for this interrogation

phase -- and assuming that there will be an increased investigation in

the personnel field, which you will work on with SOLIE -- that'll go

ahead, and assuming that we agree that when we start with NOSENKO

we'll bring VIADUCT here and have that in a parallel --

A But the point here is this -- and why I want to still try to center on this.

[Arthur

ould like to have the first opportunity to interrogate VIADUCT

directly, alone.

And naturally. he would do it here. Now, shoulda't

we consider doing this sometime soon? Instead of waiting until this

other problem of NOSENKO -- in other words, how long can we continue

to keep both of these people in suspended animation?

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M Well; I don't think NOSENKO will take quite that long.

I mean,

I think if you could do this, if you could bring VIADUCT over here.

S.

Now.

M. After the fourth of July.

A

That's what I mean.

M

For a week or two we could play games.

A That's right.. But then we don't have to really because Arthur feis

that he has enough to break him.

S But where?

A Here.

M We ought to be able to sit down right here.

A He'd do it here because you're here.

S

But in England nobody would know for what reason he brought here.

M

Oh, the reason would be that he was coming here to work with us

because he thinks it's the best thing in the world.

A. He would be invited here as a hero.

M That's how we've played it all along.

R That possibility hasn't been disturbed at all.

S Now I think at first it is better to interrogate VIADUCT.

M Well, at the same time I want to be getting ready for the NOSENKO

thing. We have to be thinking about it and I would like to get as many

leads in addition to the major points which it is clear that he has lied

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documents.

It could appear in various documents.

No, that was a direct quotation.

That quotation could appear in more than one document.

How long was it, was

it a long section?

Yes, I'm trying, to get to that.

Maybe in several, but that was big quotation, explanation and that

can be a document only -- I know I don't think that it would be distributed

:

outside the United States, as

I understand now.

Well, what was the purpose of

your siudying it? Why was it in-

cluded in this study you were reading?

What are the Americans doing against the Soviets.

Training.

Just examples, you see. They do such work, they are quoting documents

like this:

You feel that if we're able to produce something like that, you'll

recognize it?

Yes, I'm sure of that. Now here in your penetration, it's interst-

ing that he mentioned of course SHAPIRO, -b

but without inside knowledge,

that I discussed that matter here I doubt that they would risk giving away

SHAPIRO.

Although with EDWIN

mean confirm my information.. The same with@DWIN]Es)

course there is difference because I told not only

to you, but British too.

That pseudonym. And as I understand it, I told

at that time that

EDWIN

was an important agent -- very important agent.

I roean, could be an intelligence officer. And --

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Why did you tell the British?

Because I was not sure about the nationality. My idea was that

he could be a British or American and that is why I told both. And I --

I mean recommended to make some investigations.

Well, what did you think about the story they gave him to account

for the cryptonym EDWIN?

Had you heard of SEVASTYANOY?](5)

That namely it was to hide -- just to give you ideas that SEVAST YANOyle

that is it was old.

--finished, all over

--

Yes.

I know but did you -- have you ever heard of SEVASTYANorJe

does it

-- is this a --

No, evidentally without question he is their agent, but not...

Everybody knows it.

Then of course -- it is also interesting that he mentions the French

businessman DEMICHEL..

DEMICHEL, yes.

GRIBANOV and ANDREYEVA -- of course now, it supports prac-

tically: -- but also now. it's evidentally --

That ties into the VIADUCT --

It's evidentally French, yes. Not at least, maybe not one of,

but at least French -- they -- got such information about GRIBANOV and

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and their interest towards businessmen.

And the same, of course,

What also drew my attention was FAURER, (E)

says VIADUCT:

(S

(CARMEN (phonetic) - and here I think it's interesting that he

mentioned the name CARMEN.

"I did not mention that, I did not

who

know it. But I said that there was a girl

visited Moscow as tourist

who was approached and who planned to be transferred to some NATO

organization or so. Here I would like to get all the results of

investigations of that case in CIA and in FBI separately. Because

that material can be done. NOSENKO came and told that and even

mentioned her name that such recruitment was done, and so forth.

Without

question he has in mind that case which I described.

I ara

not sure that he gave the name.

M

What name?

S

The right name -- that is, whether he gave her genuine name.

M Well, there is such a person.

S

Yes. But what I want to read there and to be sure that it was name:

and was same as person whom I meant. And the second point, if, for

example, we knew that it was leakage from here or from FBI, then we

can make this conclusion about at least who had access to it, in CIA

and in FBI.

My idea, therefore,

is to give me results of investigation

of FAURER, CARMEN in CIA and FBI. And the list of people who had

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access to that piece of information or the investigation.

Because

if that would coincide with my studies which I made, then it might

be some clue.

But maybe it's not so. And also about BROCHEs ey

he says that BROCHES S

was recruited in 1960. Thi case was always

very interesting -- I think it would be -- and also to find all materials

about that case.

Of course, the French know that case, too, very well.

And from French side,

too. Because he might be important from

French side.

By the way, who is the source that NOSENKO has three wives?

This one is a man named Eugene EMILIANOV, EMUIANOV. He

is an interpreter, a Swiss citizen

Geneva.

In Geneva -- are you sure thatit's EMILIANOV

not anybody else?

I'm pretty sure it is, yes.

Yes, this man gave it to another girl.

He said that he was a rotter, that he had two or three wives.

Why do you ask that question?

What?

Why are you so interested in that question?

That's' -- my opinion was if -- I was interested to know who the

source is.

You mean it wasn't NOSENKO, himself?.

Is it true that he had three wives, or not?

EYES ONLY

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