TESTIMONY OF COLBY, WILLIAM E.
Originator: SSCIA
Document date: 06/04/1975
Document type: PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

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157-10011-10026

2022 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992

JFK Assassination System

Identification Form

Agency Information

AGENCY :

RECORD NUMBER:

SSCIA

157-10011-10026

RECORD SERIES:

TRANSCRIPT

AGENCY FILE NUMBER: R-173

Document Information

ORIGINATOR :

FROM:

TO :

TITLE :

SSCIA

TESTIMONY OF COLBY, WILLIAM E.

DATE :

PAGES:

SUBJECTS :

06/04/1975

109

ASSASSINATIONS

CASTRO

COLBY, WILLIAM E.

WIRETAPS

MAFIA

OPERATION MONGOOSE:

CUBAN OPERATION

DOCUMENT TYPE: PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

CLASSIFICATION: Unclassified

RESTRICTIONS: 1A; 1B

CURRENT STATUS: Redact

DATE OF LAST REVIEW: 05/29/1996

OPENING CRITERIA :

COMMENTS: SSCI Box 239, Folder 16

v9.1

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Vol.

1

NAI LUNAL

SECUSATY TOKY

Unauthorized Disclosure

to Criminal Sanctioos

Ohe Quiten Statra Senate

3 OF 6

R173

Report of Proceedings

INVENTORIED:

oN 2/27/77

ĐY.

Hearing held before

INVENTORIEO:

DN5/18/2

Select Conmittee to Study Governmental Operations

With Respect to Intelligence Activities

COMMITTEE MEETING

-

Record Number 157-10011-10026-

SSCI Box 239, Folder 16

Wednesday, June 4, 1975

Washington, D. C.

(Stenotype Tape and Waste turned over

to the Committee for destruction)

WARD & PAUL

410 FIRST STREET, S. E.

WASHINGTON, D. C. 20003

(202) 544-6000

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65

inga special group meeting. And it was left that that was on the

record vague. After the special group meeting, did the CIA

station in Santo Domingo push further for the delivery of weapons

as a gesture of U.S. support of dissidents?

Mr. Colby. Yes, there was considerable discussion with

a dissident group down there. And the question - they made

a particularpoint out of needing some warrant of our serious

interest in supporting it. And the station was urging that

this be done through the provision of some weapons.

Mr. Schwarz. And did the station indicate that the

persons who wanted the weapons had stated that the object of ob

taining this kind of help is the elimination of Irujillo?

Mr. Colby. Yes. And two of the individuals on the 15th

of

February said that the object was the elimination of

Trujillo. Instead of using arms or grenades, he began to

speak of a bonb and of poisoning.

Senator Baker. That is quoting the man requesting it?

Mr. Colby. Yes, the requéstor.

He also described a possible ambush.

MI. Schwarz. Now, who was the chief of station in

Santo Domingo in 1961?

Mr. Colby Mr. Robert owen

1(A)

Mr. Schwarz. Did the Chief of Station on March 17, 1961

cable the CIA headquarters reiterating his suggestion to

send in diplomatic pouches one small sized high-fire pover

weapon, because

Rett. Dearborn the imbassatos

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Phone (Area 202) 544-6000

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Mr.. Schwarz. And the CIA headquarters told him that no

authorization exists to suspend the pauching regulations

against shipment of articles on March 20, 1961, is that right?

MI. Colby. Right.

Mr. Schwarz.

Did the Chief of Station reply on March 22

that "he knew that

at last two posts received pistols by a pouch

for worthy purposes"?

Mr. Colby.

Yes.

I think we are talking about pouch as a term of art here.

I think there are obviously ways to ship weapons to an embassy,

we need them for our Marine guards among other things. And

I think the question here was whether they would use the

diplonatic pouch in concealing the fact that they were weapons,

and that there was no opposition for that.

ME. Schwarz. And there vere some regulations against using

the diplomatic pouch for that purpose?

Mr. Colby. The standing regulation does say, you shall

not ship firearms in pouches.

Mr. Schwarz.

What had been the two posts that

1(A)

Owen had prior to Santa Domingo?

out.

MI. Breckinridge. ir. Schwarz told me this torning to find

was in barcelona. and

these dates are subject to

23

corsection

bel

ieve they

ase correct

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rin

celoi

pri

1419541

to

25/ period

Leave an

id at

quarters

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1954

unti

about

July 1960, he washie

Brussels.

1(A

Mr. Schwarz.

stated to headquarters that in

response to their comment that you shouldn't send weapons

through the diplomatic pouch, he had at his last two posts,

which were brussels and barcelona, received pistols through the

diplomatic pouch for "worthy purposes."

1B)

What were those purposes?

Mr. Colby. I don't know.

Mr. Breckinridge. He don't know.

Mr. Colby: I might add one comment here, that head-

quarters cabled to station on the 20th of March "Regret no author-

ization exists to suspend pouch regulations against shipment

of articles"

Now, the way many of these messages leave our heaguarters

is that they are signed off at the division level. And that

could have reflected the division's communicating with the

station, saying, I haven't gotten an exception from our

normal rules for you yet, really, that the exception might

be granted further up in the approval chain, but that as of this

day, in response to the station's cable, they had not gotten the

exception.

In other words, if we had a good reason to send weapons

to a certain station, I am sure we could find a way to do it

today.

Mr. Schwarz. Can you find out what the "worthy purposes"

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were pursuant to which

owe

y needed those pistols?

1(A)

MI. Colby. We can ask

Owen

yes !

Mr Schwarz. Is the reference to w.H. in the March 22 cab

cable, which states "Wi not prepared take this step" -- and the

step being shipment of weapons through the pouch - to the

White House, or to the CIA's WH Division?

Mr. Colby. That is the division I am on.

Senator Baker.

Mr. Chairman.

end nash

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The Chairman. Senator Baker.

Senator Baker. As the Director knows, this caused us

great grief at one time.

Ms. Colby. We have charged the name of that since,

Senator.

Senator Baker. Could you, for the sake and the gratifi-

cation of my longstanding concern in that respect, supply for

the record a further identification for that as Western

Hemisphere instead of

White House?

Mr. Colby. I want to make sure that this is what this

says.

This is a reply from the station.

And it sounds to me

like in this case that he really means Western liemisphera

Division.

Senator Baker. Is there some way we can determine

whether he is talking

about White House or Western Remisphere?

Mr. Colby. This supports my previous comment about the

level of approval and authorization. In other woras, the

Chief of Station normally deals with his division. He thinks

of his division as his headquarters, the chain of command for

him, with the

realization that there are levels of approval

above the division which can get exemption to certain regula-

tions if it were appropriate. And from my reading of many

cables over the years, I can smell this one pretty clearly as

a cormunication beiween station and division, talling about

1(A)

Western Hemisphere Division. We can check with

but

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it comes out pretty clearly.

Senator Tower.

Oma still employed by the Agency? 1(A)

Mr. Colby. Yes.

Mr. Schwarz. Following the initial turndown of delivery

by the pouch, did the Agency in fact ship the revolvers

SOME

time after March 25th and were authorized by Mr. Bissell to do

so?

Mr. Colby. I don't think we shipped the revolvers.

What

we shipped ; were carbines.

Mr. Breckinridge. I think that we shipped some sub-

machine guns.

Mr. Schwarz. If you look at the record for March 25,

1961, it states in a cable authorized by Mr. Bissell, "ie

support a program to replace the Trujillo regime. We wish to

avoid precipitated

action if planning is not well organized,

as appears to be the case. Mchine guns and ammunition will be

supplied to demonstrate good will to the dissidents who

requested revolvers and are being pouched."

Mr. Colby. But I think elsewhere in the record it is

indicated that we could -- look back or page 39 -- we find

notations that the revolvers were actually pouched. We are

just not very clear on that.

Mr. Schwarz. The first instance where this document

admits that weapons were in fact sent and delivered is under

the heading "March 26, 1961." And it refers to three

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74

Then in March the approval of the passage, I think,

without any substantial difference in policy, expressed in the

interim.

Probably that is a

formal approval. It would be

considered

adequate for the

actual passage in March.. Now, I

imagine, however, that there was a certain amount of pre-

exchange of information with the Embassy in Dominican Republic

and also with the State Department here.

Mr:

Schwarz. On March 31, 1961 the actual passing of

the carbines was approved in a cable released by Mr. Bissell,

is that right?

Mr. Colby. It was approved, yes, in a cable 31 March.

Mr. Schwarz.

And Mr. Bissell released the cable, is that

right?

Mr. Colby.

Yes.

Mr. Schwarz.

The Chief of Station,

do continue lAl

to ask for more weapons through the pouch.

Mr. Colby.

Right.

Mr. Schwarz. And there is an indication that some

approval of pouching more weapons was granted by Headquarters

in April 1961, is that right, April 12, 1961?

Mr. Breckinridge. They sent more guns, but never did

have authority to release guns.

Mr. Colby. They did approve the shipment of submachine

guns, but these were never - the Station was never authorized

to release those to the dissidents..

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103

The Chairman. From the State Department to the Charge,

on what we have speculated must be the instructions of the

President. And that remains to be determined positively.

Now, two days later we get this cable from the Chief

of Station to the CIA. And those words are quoted in the

record: "Assume the 29 May policy cable form State to

Dearborn is final word on present policy on which CIA :

be based. This for practical purposes retreats

from-previous policy. However, Headquarters is avare extent

to which US Government already associates with an assassination.

If we are to at least try to cover up tracks, CIA personnel

directly involved in an assassination preparation must be

withdrawn now.

If an assassination tried and not successful,

immediate evacuation Of Chles

of Station,

the operations

1(B)

officers and

the

administrative

assistant mandatory."

Now, we must have the full cables of course in this case

But I really believe that some very serious questions

are left

unanswered by this record.

Senator Mathias. Mr. Chairman, I might recall that

Shakespeare anticipated this situation when he said, when you

strike a king you must kill hin.

Mr. Colby: There was also a companion cable fron the

Charge to the Department making moreorless the same problem,

that there was substantial proof of Us involvement in these

matters.

That cable was dated on 31 May. It was actually

2 441G 1

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