Joint Committee on Police Oversight — Burlington, VT
Date: 2023-09-25
Time: 19:00

Joint Committee on Police Oversight Meeting Agenda - Monday, September 25, 2023,
 7:00 PM, Bushor Conference Room 1st Floor, City Hall OR REMOTELY via ZOOM

When: Sep 25, 2023 07:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
Topic: Joint Committee on Police Oversight Meeting

Please click the link below to join the webinar:
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Webinar ID: 930 2726 2127
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1. Agenda
 Subject 1.1. Motion to amend/adopt agenda
 Meeting September 25, 2023 - Joint Committee on Police Oversight Meeting Agenda - Monday,
 September 25, 2023, 7:00 PM, Bushor Conference Room 1st Floor, City Hall OR
 REMOTELY via ZOOM


 Category 1. Agenda

 Department


 Type

 Recommended Action
2. Adopt Draft Minutes
  Subject 2.1. Adopt Draft Minutes
  Meeting September 25, 2023 - Joint Committee on Police Oversight Meeting Agenda - Monday,
 September 25, 2023, 7:00 PM, Bushor Conference Room 1st Floor, City Hall OR
 REMOTELY via ZOOM


  Category 2. Adopt Draft Minutes

  Department Council and Board


  Type

  Recommended Action

3. Public Forum
  Subject 3.1. Verbal Comments
  Meeting September 25, 2023 - Joint Committee on Police Oversight Meeting Agenda - Monday,
 September 25, 2023, 7:00 PM, Bushor Conference Room 1st Floor, City Hall OR
 REMOTELY via ZOOM
  Category 3. Public Forum
  Department Council and Board


  Type

4. Councilor Discussion and Review of Vital Questions
  Subject 4.1. Councilor Discussion and Review of Vital Questions
  Meeting September 25, 2023 - Joint Committee on Police Oversight Meeting Agenda - Monday,
 September 25, 2023, 7:00 PM, Bushor Conference Room 1st Floor, City Hall OR
 REMOTELY via ZOOM


  Category 4. Councilor Discussion and Review of Vital Questions

  Department Council and Board


  Type

  Recommended Action

5. Adjournment
  Subject 5.1. Motion to adjourn
  Meeting September 25, 2023 - Joint Committee on Police Oversight Meeting Agenda - Monday,
 September 25, 2023, 7:00 PM, Bushor Conference Room 1st Floor, City Hall OR
 REMOTELY via ZOOM


  Category 5. Adjournment

  Department Council and Board


  Type

  Recommended Action

Joint Committee on Police Oversight Meeting Agenda - Monday, September 25, 2023,
 7:00 PM, Bushor Conference Room 1st Floor, City Hall OR REMOTELY via ZOOM

When: Sep 25, 2023 07:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
Topic: Joint Committee on Police Oversight Meeting

Please click the link below to join the webinar:
https://zoom.us/j/93027262127
Or One tap mobile :
  +13052241968,,93027262127# US
  +13092053325,,93027262127# US
Or Telephone:
  Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current location):
  +1 305 224 1968 US
  +1 309 205 3325 US
  +1 312 626 6799 US (Chicago)
  +1 646 931 3860 US
  +1 929 205 6099 US (New York)
  +1 301 715 8592 US (Washington DC)
  +1 360 209 5623 US
  +1 386 347 5053 US
  +1 507 473 4847 US
  +1 564 217 2000 US
  +1 669 444 9171 US
  +1 669 900 6833 US (San Jose)
  +1 689 278 1000 US
  +1 719 359 4580 US
  +1 253 205 0468 US
  +1 253 215 8782 US (Tacoma)
  +1 346 248 7799 US (Houston)
Webinar ID: 930 2726 2127
  International numbers available: https://zoom.us/u/adxYr3W4mn




1. Agenda
 Subject 1.1. Motion to amend/adopt agenda
 Meeting September 25, 2023 - Joint Committee on Police Oversight Meeting Agenda - Monday,
 September 25, 2023, 7:00 PM, Bushor Conference Room 1st Floor, City Hall OR
 REMOTELY via ZOOM


 Category 1. Agenda

 Department


 Type

 Recommended Action



 Page 1 of 13
2. Adopt Draft Minutes
  Subject 2.1. Adopt Draft Minutes
  Meeting September 25, 2023 - Joint Committee on Police Oversight Meeting Agenda - Monday,
 September 25, 2023, 7:00 PM, Bushor Conference Room 1st Floor, City Hall OR
 REMOTELY via ZOOM


  Category 2. Adopt Draft Minutes

  Department Council and Board


  Type

  Recommended Action

3. Public Forum
  Subject 3.1. Verbal Comments
  Meeting September 25, 2023 - Joint Committee on Police Oversight Meeting Agenda - Monday,
 September 25, 2023, 7:00 PM, Bushor Conference Room 1st Floor, City Hall OR
 REMOTELY via ZOOM
  Category 3. Public Forum
  Department Council and Board


  Type

4. Councilor Discussion and Review of Vital Questions
  Subject 4.1. Councilor Discussion and Review of Vital Questions
  Meeting September 25, 2023 - Joint Committee on Police Oversight Meeting Agenda - Monday,
 September 25, 2023, 7:00 PM, Bushor Conference Room 1st Floor, City Hall OR
 REMOTELY via ZOOM


  Category 4. Councilor Discussion and Review of Vital Questions

  Department Council and Board


  Type

  Recommended Action

5. Adjournment
  Subject 5.1. Motion to adjourn
  Meeting September 25, 2023 - Joint Committee on Police Oversight Meeting Agenda - Monday,
 September 25, 2023, 7:00 PM, Bushor Conference Room 1st Floor, City Hall OR
 REMOTELY via ZOOM


  Category 5. Adjournment

  Department Council and Board


  Type

  Recommended Action



 Page 2 of 13
Page 3 of 13
 ORDINANCE and CHARTER CHANGE JOINT COMMITTEE
 Thursday, September 7, 2023
 Bushor Conference Room and Remote via Zoom
 DRAFT MINUTES
Members Present: Councilor Traverse (Ordinance Committee Chair), Gene Bergman (Charter
Change Committee Chair), Councilor Carpenter, Councilor Hightower
Staff Present: Kim Sturtevant (Acting City Attorney), Jon Murad (Chief of Police), Jordan Redell
(Mayor’s Chief of Staff), Shannon Trammell (BPD)
Others in Attendance: Jake Schumann, Mike Hoey, Scot Sweeney, Tyler Boronski
Meeting called to order at 5:35 PM.
1.0 Agenda
Motion to adopt/amend agenda
Motion to Adopt Agenda with the agenda item ‘Adjournment’ moved to the end of the agenda.
Motion by Councilor Hightower, Seconded by Councilor Carpenter
Final Resolution: Motion Passes
Yes: Unanimous

2.0 Adopt the Draft Minutes from August 2 and 3.
Motion to Adopt Minutes as is.
Motion by Councilor Bergman, Seconded by Councilor Carpenter
Final Resolution: Motion Passes
Yes: Unanimous

3.0 Public Forum
No members of the public wished to speak for this agenda item.
4.0 Discussion of Proposed Pathways from Councilors
Councilor Bergman wants to have an independent body for higher-level disciplinary incidents. He
also wants to do any charter changes first and to have them ready by the end of the calendar year.
The language for this independent body would be similar to the Mayor’s memo from December
of 2020 and this body should have a budget for staffing.
Councilor Carpenter believes there should not be two separate bodies. There should be staff
budgeting to alleviate the time strain that the Commission is already dealing with. City Council
could restructure the Police Commission if there is a need to improve their independence, but it is
already a citizen Commission.
Councilor Traverse raised several legal questions for research. What are the concerns around the
Police collective bargaining agreement when it comes to auditing or oversight?


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 Page 4 of 13
Jordan Redell (Mayor’s Chief of Staff) stated that the current system allows the Commission to
review body worn camera footage for incidents so long as there is a reason. The Commission
cannot randomly audit footage without a reason.
Chief Murad added that all incident reports are noted in the monthly report given to the
Commission and they may pick incidents to review fully. Six months ago, the Commission asked
to see all incident reports and the BPOA did not want that to be the practice.
Councilor Traverse raised another legal question: If an oversight body were allowed to categorize
the severity of incidents, what are the potential issues with the current collective bargaining
agreement? If the body changed its mind on the level of an incident and wanted to change its
categorization, are there any issues with that? If the Police Commission hears disciplinary appeals,
should the collective bargaining agreement allow officers to appeal to arbitration, beyond the
Commission?
The Committee decided on the following dates for next meetings:
9/25 at 7:00PM
10/3 at 7:00PM
10/28 at 7:00PM
11/1 at 5:30PM


5.0 Adjournment
Motion to adjourn.
Motion by Councilor Traverse, without objection.
Yes: Unanimous

The meeting was adjourned at 6:41 PM.




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A. Investigative/Review Function

1. DD40, Section 1, Subsections B, C, D, F, and G describes the process by how allegations of
 violations of Department Rules or Regulations are initiated from within or outside of the
 Department.

 Does the Committee wish to make any changes to how internal or community complaints are
 initiated?

2. DD40, Section 1, Subsections A and E vests the authority to investigate all internal and
 community complaints regarding Department personnel with the Chief who determines
 whether an investigation is necessary or not. The 2021 Mayoral Executive Directive, requires
 that all use of force incidents that result in injury be reported to the Police Commission after
 investigation, but only after the Chief confers with the Mayor and receives the Mayor’s approval
 with any recommendation from the Chief.
 The overarching question is: Does the Committee wish to make any changes to this authority
 and process?

 The following specific questions are raised by this broader question:

 Should internal complaints be treated differently than community complaints?

 Should conduct other than just use of force incidents that result in injury be reported to
 an oversight body (e.g., dishonesty, discrimination, harassment, criminal conduct, or
 other serious misconduct)?

 Should reports to an oversight body only be reported after the Mayor has reviewed the
 Chief’s recommendation?

 Should an oversight body have a role in deciding who investigates internal or
 community complaints?

 Are there distinctions based on the severity of the allegation (“categorization”) that
 would change who is the investigator and decisionmaker on the disposition of the
 complaint?

 Article XV of the BPOA collective bargaining agreement defines the continuum of lower-,
 mid-, and higher-level infractions. Should there be a modified process for categorizing
 complaints (e.g., should the process be authorized by charter?, etc.) and, if so, how does
 that intersect with collective bargaining rights?

 Who decides on the categorization of the allegation?

 Is the categorization reviewable?

3. If the Committee believes an oversight body should have a role in deciding who investigates
 internal or community complaints, who other than the Chief and their designee should conduct
 the investigation?



 1


 Page 6 of 13
 The following options are raised by this question: the oversight body itself, an independent
 investigator selected by the oversight body for a particular investigation, an independent
 monitor selected by the oversight body to conduct all investigations, etc..

4. For an explanation of the current investigatory framework, see DD40, Section 3.
 The broader question is: Should the current investigatory framework be changed?

 More specific questions are:

 Should this framework apply equally to all complaints?

 What authority should an oversight body other than the Department have in the course
 of their investigation (e.g., right to review documents, subpoena testimony, review any
 Department investigation, make recommendations, etc.)?

5. If the Committee believes the Chief should retain some or all authority to investigate internal or
 community complaints, what role should the oversight body have during that investigation
 process?

 More specific questions that arise from this broader question are:
 Must the Department inform an oversight body upon the filing of a complaint and, if so,
 when must this notification take place?
 Is the Department required to provide regular updates during the investigation?
 Must the Department report back to an oversight body at the conclusion of all
 investigations?
 Must the Chief’s recommendation be approved by anyone—the Mayor, the
 Commission, an oversight body—prior to the decision being finalized?

6. DD40, Section 2, outlines rights and obligations of employees during an investigation process,
 cross-referencing due process considerations in the BPOA collective bargaining agreement.

 Does the Committee wish to explore any changes to these due process considerations and, if the
 Committee supports different processes to investigate complaints, should the same due process
 considerations apply to each process?
7. If the Chief retains some or all authority (and responsibility) to investigate internal or
 community complaints, what occurs after the Chief issues their conclusions on how a complaint
 should be disposed?
 Does an oversight body have any role if the Chief retains the authority and responsibility to
 conduct the investigation and make recommendations on the disposition of the complaint (e.g.,
 review the investigation and make recommendations, etc.)?

 If an oversight body makes recommendations on the disposition of the complaint and the
 recommendation is not followed, does the decider have to explain why the recommendation
 was not followed?


 2


 Page 7 of 13
 8. If an oversight body obtains authority to investigate internal or community complaints, what is
 the process going forward after it reaches its conclusions on how the complaint should be
 disposed (e.g., what rights do parties (accused, complainant, Department have upon receipt of
 the conclusions of the investigation)?

 Should the complainant have any rights to appeal if they disagree with the final
 disposition?

 What due process protections should be incorporated?

 Should there be any changes to the requirements of the BPOA collective bargaining
 agreement?

 Should anybody else (e.g., other community members) who is aggrieved by a decision
 have the right to appeal or to raise objections?

 9. If an oversight body has authority to review an investigation of an internal or community
 complaint and a recommendation is made, what is the process going forward?

 Should the complainant have any rights to appeal if they disagree with the
 recommendation?
 What due process protections should be incorporated?
 Should there be any changes to the requirements of the BPOA collective bargaining
 agreement?

 Should anybody else (e.g., other community members) who is aggrieved by a decision
 have the right to appeal or to raise objections?



 10. Should there be a process by which disagreements over the recommended action are resolved
 and by what authority is the process codified (e.g., charter change by which entity other than
 the Chief is resolving disputes)? What changes if a complaint is about the Chief?




B. Auditing.

 1. What role, if any, should the oversight body have as an auditor. Sub-issues to consider:

 What is the scope of matters subject to auditing (public safety trends, reviewing and
 creating new policies, adherence to policies and procedures, internal investigatory
 processes, analysis of aggregate data on discipline and other police practices).

 What events should trigger an audit, e.g., periodic reviews or other events.


 3


 Page 8 of 13
 What is the scope of investigative authority as auditor, access to data, analytics, policies,
 procedures, and reports.

 What degree of community involvement should an audit involve, including
 recommendations and feedback?


 2. Deconflicting procedures regarding auditing/monitoring function: What procedures
 should be in place to make sure oversight body’s operations work harmoniously with
 ongoing internal affairs investigations, criminal investigations, prosecutions, etc.



 3. Transparency for public accountability and need for confidentiality in certain
 circumstances. When should data or other information be kept confidential, for how
 long, and under what circumstances.



C. Composition, selection, and resources.

 What should be the oversight body’s composition, selection and resources (e.g., staffing).




 4


 Page 9 of 13
Gene Bergman’s preferred pathways

A Charter Change on Discipline/Investigation, including the authorization for the adoption of ordinances
to effectuate them.

 1. Powers
 A. For high level Infractions
 1. The creation of a new independent community body (different from the commission) to decide
 cases involving higher level infraction, as those are defined in the BPOA contract and as
 designated and referred by the commission (see B1a below), and to impose discipline
 2. The body is appointed by the city council after soliciting input from the range of community
 organizations interested in public safety, criminal justice, equity, etc.. The body should also
 represent the diversity of the City’s population, particularly those populations that have been
 most marginalized
 3. There is a budget for an independent counsel and other needed staff and compensation on par
 with other community commissions and boards
 4. Cases are investigated and discipline is proposed by the BPD Chief or their designees
 5. The current due process system is maintained
 6. The obligation to report dispositions to the commission as part of its monitoring and auditing
 responsibility

 B. For middle and low level infractions
 1. The codification of the current system in which the Police Commission is involved in the
 community complaint process, with changes. See Resolution of 10/18/21 (p 5 line 67-87);
 Seguino 5/30/23 memo.
 a. The right to review all complaints of police abuse and designate the level of seriousness.
 This includes use of force incidents. The right to create policy to detail this right.
 Resolution of 10/18/21, p 5 line 67-68; Seguino memo p 2,3)
 b. The right to request an investigation into an incident and receive a report from chief,
 review incidents, receive unfettered access to information, conduct an independent
 investigation using its own hired investigator, give input and make recommendations,
 require chief to publish their objections and reasons if the PC recommendation is not
 followed, The right to create policy to detail this right. (10/18/21 Res lines 69-87;
 Seguino memo page 2)
 c. The right to publish anonymized complaint reports and create policy to detail this right.
 (Seguino memo page 2)
 d. The creation of the process whereby a subcommittee would be involved in the
 complaint review and recommendation process and a separate subcommittee would act
 as a grievance body pursuant to current charter. (PC memo of 4/22/22 page 12 lines
 428-429)
 e. A budget for an independent counsel and other needed staff and compensation on par
 with other community commissions and boards

 2. The express authorization for the city council to adopt ordinances effectuating the above
 powers and then the drafting of ordinances to put this into effect.




 Page 10 of 13
Audit/Monitoring

A Charter Change on Audit/Monitoring, including the authorization for the adoption of ordinances to
effectuate them, that codifies in charter the role of the PC to review all community complaints and
engage in the auditing and monitoring of the department.

The rights of the PC to be authorized by charter include the right to monitor and audit the department
and all its personnel, the right to an independent monitor, the right to unfettered access to data and
analysis, the right to adopt directives and policies and make recommendations on practices, the right to
other resources such as legal and other staff, the right to report and discuss monitoring and auditing
conclusions in public

The following is needed in ordinance to put this power into effect:

 1. The creation of an independent monitor position along the lines proposed in the memo by then-
 PC co-chair Seguino on May 30, 2023 and supported by the commission at its August meeting
 2. The codification of the role of the REIB office to access, analyze, and report to the PC and CC on
 data related to use of force and other interactions that implicate equity issues including mental
 health, drug and alcohol, homelessness, etc. as well as equity issues involving safety
 perceptions, response times, and disparities related to geographic communities (this comes out
 of discussions I and Councilor Melo had with Dir. Carson--she was supportive of and helped craft
 it; Seguino memo p 4 is not directly on this point but supportive of)
 3. Codify the right of the PC to unfettered access to data, investigations, use of force reports and
 other information needed to allow the PC to carry out its auditing and monitoring mandate.
 4. Codify the PC process for adopting directives & other policies. (See PC 4/22/22 memo pages 4-5;
 Seguino memo p 3)
 5. Codify and resource the PC’s oversight of training. (Seguino memo page 3)
 6. Codify the right to discuss anonymized complaints in public as part of the monitoring and
 auditing process (Seguino memo p 2).
 7. Codify the obligation for post-incident reviews and analyses to be submitted to the PC (Seguino
 memo p. 2-3)
 8. Codify the right to monitor and audit investigations of complaints
 9. Codify the right to audit the department and make recommendations (Seguino memo p 4) on
 department policies and practices, such as de-escalation practices and racial disparities in
 policing.
 10. Codify the right to monitor and audit the non-sworn staff of the PD (Seguino memo p 4).




 Page 11 of 13
Sarah Carpenter and Zoraya Hightower – thoughts on Police Oversight
One body
 • Expand the body to 9 and tighten up nomination?
 o can we have criteria?
 o disclose relationship to police, if applicable
 o Two people per district if it’s 9? One per district if its 7?
 • Can we set up formal sub-committees?
 o Disciplinary
 o Directives
 o One more? What makes sense?

Staff Support
 • Assume at least 50% of the time to police commission alone.
 • Mandate not reporting to police chief or fire chief.
 • Other options for where they sit (don’t have to formalize, but recommend to mayor?)
 o Legal department: more of a paralegal admin person to support research, etc.
 o Public Safety Department: CARES, staff police commission and fire board, and
 public safety commission, houselessness, addiction
 o Human Resources: more complaint process specific person for both BPD and
 across the city.
Discipline
 • All complaints, use-of-force incidences should be accessible to an oversight body a week
 before the next meeting of that body or within 1 week, whichever is later. Individual-
 staff level outcomes data disaggregated by race and disability should be sent to the
 oversight body annually. The oversight body as a committee or as a sub-committee will
 review and categorize all complaints and use-of-force by type of complaint (language,
 use-of-force, etc.) and by severity (low, medium, high as defined in the BPOA contract)
 as well as the level of discrimination found in outcomes data.
 • All complaints will receive an update on each milestone of the process as well as the
 overall outcome of their complaints. Either the chief or the committee can refer the
 matter to the CJC for restorative justice.
 o Example: 1) the police chief and sub-committee have until X date to come to a
 decision 2) they have come to a decision and agreed on the severity and
 discipline, and this has been issued OR 3) they have come to a decision and
 disagreed on the severity and discipline, this is now being sent to the HR Director
 • (FOR NOW, future process in Charter Change Below) The Chief will issue discipline or
 launch an investigation after this recommendation has been made. The Chief will inform
 the Body on any deviations in actions from their recommendation. The Body may also
 launch a parallel investigation by decision of a simple majority.




 Page 12 of 13
 • Annually, the committee will release a report with high-level data of both the
 categorization of complaints by type and complaint by severity as well as use-of-force by
 type and use-of-force in severity and detail how often their recommendation and that of
 the chief deviated.

Appeals
 • Go to HR committee (like the rest of city staff)


Charter Change
 1. Discipline. For complaints that are labeled as serious or high or use-of-force with an
 injury, or for data indicating bias for more than one year for any staff member, the body
 will make a recommendation – be that investigatory or disciplinary. The body may also
 choose to develop a recommendation around any complaint or use-of-force or data-
 based outcomes that they believe requires further action - be that investigatory or
 disciplinary.

 In parallel, the Chief will categorize and make a recommendation of discipline or
 investigations. If the categorizations or the two recommendations cannot be reconciled
 – the matter goes to the HR Director. If they can be reconciled, the categories are
 recorded, and recommendations implemented.

 Annually, the committee will release a report with high-level data of both the
 categorization of complaints by type and complaint by severity as well as use-of-force by
 type and use-of-force in severity and detail in how often their recommendation and that
 of the chief deviated.

 2. Appeals go to the HR committee like the rest of the city staff.

 3. Implement the same process as above for the fire department (requires Charter
 Change)




 Page 13 of 13

ORDINANCE and CHARTER CHANGE JOINT COMMITTEE
 Monday, September 25, 2023
 Bushor Conference Room and Remote via Zoom
 DRAFT MINUTES
Members Present: Councilor Traverse (Ordinance Committee Chair), Gene Bergman (Charter
Change Committee Chair), Councilor Carpenter, Councilor Hightower, Councilor Doherty,
Councilor Shannon
Staff Present: Kim Sturtevant (Assistant City Attorney), Josh Diamond (Outside Counsel)
Others in Attendance: Melo Grant (City Councilor), Shakuntala Rao (Police Commission), Mary
Cox (Police Commission), Jake Schumann, FaRied Munarsyah, Laurie Spitzer
Meeting called to order at 7:13 PM.
1.0 Agenda
Motion to adopt/amend agenda
Motion to Adopt the Draft Agenda.
Motion by Councilor Bergman, Seconded by Councilor Shannon
Final Resolution: Motion Passes
Yes: Unanimous

2.0 Adopt the Draft Minutes from September 7
Motion to Adopt Minutes as is.
Motion by Councilor Bergman, Seconded by Councilor Shannon
Final Resolution: Motion Passes
Yes: Unanimous

3.0 Public Forum
Shakuntala Rao (Police Commission): At the August meeting of the Commission, we had four
resolutions and two were tabled and two were passed. We are updating the Commission’s policy
on body worn camera review and we sent a letter that stated our position. The second
recommendation was to have a separate body hear officer appeals on discipline. Currently, the
Commission does not have the time to devote to properly hearing and considering these appeals.
The Commission also recommends the creation of a budget for the Commission and the hiring of
a monitor. We meet next on September 26.
Mary Cox (Police Commission): We are still waiting on labor relations decisions related to the
appeal body issue. Also, a subcommittee of the Commission is working on an amended draft on
recommendations, but the work is still in its infancy.
Melo Grant (City Councilor): Looking at the September 7 minutes, it is concerning that Chief
Murad and the Mayor have walked back that they support the Commission having access to all



 Page 1 of 3
use-of-force incident records. I hope that the police union rethinks their position on this and does
not stop the Commission from having access to all incident body worn camera footage.
Jake Schumann: I think it is important that the charter be changed on that issue since then the
BPOA cannot negotiate on it.
Public comment closed at 7:30PM
4.0 Councilor Discussion and Review of Vital Questions
Councilors submitted written opinions that are available on the CivicClerk agenda.
Councilor Traverse said that it is great that the Commission is still working on their
recommendations, but that it means we are losing time going toward Town Meeting Day.
Councilors Bergman, Carpenter, and Hightower have all submitted pathways or recommendations,
however.
Councilor Carpenter reiterated that she believes there should still only be one oversight body and
that the powers stay with the Police Commission. The Commission could be expanded to nine
members to lessen work load. The Commission also needs some kind of staff support and there
should be a formal job description for the monitor position.
Councilor Hightower added that complaints about police conduct that are not use-of-force related
or a crime should have follow up with the complainant so there is some closure for the complainant.
Having this done through the Community Justice Center could be a helpful forum.
Councilor Carpenter posited that the Human Resource Committee could be a good forum for an
appeal from an officer on a disciplinary matter. Currently, the charter still only gives authority to
the Chief so something might have to change.
Shakuntala Rao (Police Commission) said that the Commission could send out letters or follow up
with complainants as well.
Councilor Bergman believes the proposal from councilors Carpenter and Hightower involves a lot
of policy and ordinance changes and should be a secondary concern for the Joint Committee.
Charter changes have to be ready by December for the election in March and the Committee should
focus on that. Councilor Bergman reiterated that he wants two separate oversight bodies.
FaRied Munarsyah: There is an appeal process for police officers for disciplinary matters, but there
is no appeal process for complainants to the department. I think the City Council should have
ultimate appeal authority for discipline similarly to the Fire Department.
Councilor Bergman said that the Council is inherently political and should not be the appeal body.
He added that the current powers of the Commission should be codified instead of just being
policy. There should be a charter change that gives the Commission the right to monitor and audit
data, records, and footage.
Councilor Traverse brought up some legal questions regarding charter changes. There is general
consensus that Police Commission powers and authority should be written into the charter rather
than being delegated by Council resolution as it currently stands. There is consensus that the
Commission should have authority to review incidents without any obstruction and that it should


 Page 2 of 3
be in charter. He also thinks there should be clarity, in charter, on how the Commission can review
directives and police policy.
Councilor Shannon brought up that the Council can pass ordinances rather than resolutions to
codify the Commission’s current role and questioned whether all the changes should be in charter.
Councilor Shannon wants to limit the number of charter changes so that things are more flexible.
Councilor Doherty reiterated Councilor Traverses’s request to counsel to put together language on
a potential charter change or ordinance change. Councilor Doherty also asked that the Chief of
Police and the BPOA should be involved in the discussions once the Committee has something in
writing.
5.0 Adjournment
Motion to adjourn.
Motion by Councilor Traverse, without objection.
Yes: Unanimous

The next Joint Committee meeting is scheduled for 10/3 at 7:00PM by Zoom.

The meeting was adjourned at 9:23 PM.




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