Advisory — Green Bay, WI
Date: 2008-09-10
Time: 17:00

MINUTES
 ADVISORY COMMITTEE
 Wednesday, September 10, 2008
 City Hall, Room 604
 7:00 p.m.

MEMBERS PRESENT: Council President Chris Wery, Council Vice-President
Tom DeWane, Ald. Tom Weber, Ald. Celestine Jeffreys, Ald. Jerry Wiezbiskie

MEMBERS EXCUSED: Ald. Andy Nicholson, Ald. John Vanderleest

Others present: Ald. Amy Kocha, Paul Srubas, (Green Bay Press-Gazette)Union
representatives from the City


1. Call to order.
Ald. Tom DeWane called the meeting to order at 7:00 pm, and roll call was taken.
Ald. Wery would be arriving a little late. Ald. Nicholson and Vanderleest were
excused due to an Executive meeting of the County.

2. Approval of the agenda.
Motion made by Ald. Weber, second by Ald. Wiezbiskie to approve the agenda.
Motion carried.

3. Approval of the minutes of the June 17, 2008 Advisory Committee
 meeting.
Motion made by Ald. Wiezbiskie, second by Ald. Jeffreys to approve the minutes
of the June 17, 2008 meeting as submitted. Motion carried.

4. Request by Ald. DeWane to hold the August 19th City Council meeting.
Council President Wery arrived and took over chairing the meeting.
Ald. DeWane said the timing for this item has passed. Motion made by Ald.
Jeffreys, second by Ald. Wiezbiskie to receive and place this item on file. Motion
carried.

5. Request by Ald. DeWane to discuss the possibility only of a referendum
 on our budget and discuss what would be an appropriate amount if any
 is needed.
Ald. DeWane said he asked Doug Daul and Fred Geissler to be in attendance at
this meeting and was disappointed that they were not here. Ald. Weber stated
that Fred had surgery recently and is still recovering and not feeling well. Ald.
DeWane stated that the reason he brought this forward is because our budget is
extremely difficult and said we can keep some services that we are trying to cut,
at a reasonable rate at a certain percentage. He said if city representatives were
in attendance, we could have presented some numbers that could have kept us
in the safe zone and making sure that we did not go above the numbers, but
since no one is here, we don’t have any numbers.
Motion made by Ald. Wiezbiskie, second by Ald. Weber to receive and place on
file.

Discussion: Ald. Jeffreys inquired if we didn’t miss the deadline for putting this
item on the ballot? Ald. DeWane said we could have had up until Sept. 26 th and
again said that is why he is very discouraged that city representatives are not
here to discuss this. Ald. Weber stated that this issue has been taken up once
before at Advisory and was taken all the way through Council and he didn’t agree
with trying again and again until the item gets a favorable outcome, adding that it
should take the normal course and let the process give us a decision. Ald. Wery
agreed stating that Doug Daul had a specific timeline for budget regarding a
referendum and said because of the timeline, he is agreeing to receive and place
on file.

Ald. DeWane said this was brought forward before like many other issues but
again said he expects the proper authorities to be here to discuss this issue. He
said this is not a dead issue and said we’ve changed things plenty of times. He
said who is to say that at any time we couldn’t have done something that would
have been agreed upon?

A vote was taken on the motion. Motion carried, with Ald. DeWane voting No.

6. Request by Ald. DeWane to discuss City and public concerns on City
 contracts.
Ald. Wery asked for clarification on which city contracts Ald. DeWane was
referring to. Ald. DeWane responded labor contracts. He stated that he was
wanting to learn why these contracts are not being signed. Ald. Weber stated
that the Personnel Committee ratified one of the contracts Tuesday evening and
said this is an ongoing process, adding that we don’t openly discuss ongoing
contract negotiations and said anyone is welcome to attend the Personnel
meetings. Ald. Jeffreys said she needed clarification on what the specific
problems/concerns are and who has the concern, the Union? Citizens/public?
Ald. Wiezbiskie stated that he serves on several committees and the public is
welcome to attend to express their concerns, unless the committee is in closed
session.

Ald. DeWane said he brought this item up because he’s getting different answers
regarding contracts that we’re settling and then from the other side that we’re not,
adding that the committee should be sharing these concerns. He again asked
why nobody is here to explain anything. After further brief heated discussion, with
Ald. DeWane apologizing to the other committee members, a motion was made
by Ald. Wiezbiskie, second by Ald. Weber to receive and place on file.

Discussion: Ald. Jeffreys stated that she understands Ald. DeWane’s frustration
with getting a straight answer, citing a recent issue with Central State and
acceptance of Central States Health Care Plan and what it would do for the city’s
bottom line. She said it was an interesting mental exercise for her to get a
straight, appropriate answer. She stated that it’s the Mayor’s office that is the
entity that negotiates these contracts and the Council as a body approves them.
She believes that other cities do not have the Council negotiating contracts
either.

Motion by Ald. DeWane, second by Ald. Jeffreys to open the floor to allow
interested parties to speak. Motion carried.

Fluffy Arts, AFSCME representative said they are only asking to be heard,
adding that the Council is only hearing one side. She asked why city
representatives were not here to hear their side. She indicated that she and
other unions would like to be allowed to speak at the City Council meetings to let
their side be heard. She said in 2004 the Unions presented the Budget Task
Force with a list of suggestions and they were not taken. She indicated that
morale is low and there is mistrust. She said she has been with the city for 17
years and it didn’t used to be like this. Ald. Wiezbiskie said the proper procedure
to be heard is to go to your alderman and they can take it to the City Council. He
said it gets a bit abrasive when Union employees take the wrong route, stating
that it looked like a militia two Council meetings ago when they appeared to be
wanting to disrupt the Council meeting. Ald. Weber said the Unions are
supposed to be heard through their bargaining unit for contract negotiations and
the City does the same thing. He said if they start exchanging items in open
forum, they may be violating laws. He stated that he has all the numbers from a
contract that was ratified the other night, but he is not giving out those numbers
before the contract is ratified. Fluffy referred to the Labor Management
Committee which met for three years and saved the city a lot of money. She
indicated that items from this meeting were used against the Unions in
negotiations. She summarized by stating that AFSCME came to the Council
meeting to get the referendum approved and citizens should be told what to
expect with cutting of services. Ald. Weber responded that the Council had dealt
with the issue of the referendum, and voted not to approve it.

Shirley Tilleman, 28-year City employee, addressed the committee stating that
they thought they were on the agenda at the Council meeting which was referred
to. She indicated that the Town of Scott opens the floor to anyone who wishes to
speak, without being on the agenda and said Ald. Zima said the County allows
the general public to speak. She said as a citizen of this city she thought she
would be allowed to speak to her concerns and their intent was not to give bad
vibes to the Council members.

Julie Jansch, AFSCME, 30-year employee stated that they attended the Council
meeting because they were under the impression, after talking with a few of the
aldermen, that they were going to be able to get the referendum passed. She
said that they had talked to Ald. Piton and said they received an email from Ald.
Piton indicating that he had been advised that the Union would not need a
referendum because the Unions were going to take Central States insurance and
their problem would be gone. She said this was after a meeting Teamsters had
with the city and said they couldn’t take Central States the way it’s being offered.
She said they are being told one thing and the aldermen are being told a different
thing. She asked how they could have made an informed decision on the
referendum when they didn’t have the correct information.
Mike Neph, Fire Department said he has been negotiating contracts for the Fire
Dept. since 1994 and said he doesn’t like to hear on Council floor that the Fire
Dept. is beating up the city every year. He said every contract he has negotiated
has included insurance concession of some sort and said none of the contracts
have included more than a 3% raise and many were less than that. He said they
have worked with the city and should not be made out to look like the bad guys.
He indicated that all they ask is for respect and reasonable proposals. He said
he realizes that HR is given parameters to negotiate and said he explains to his
members that this is real and that’s why he sold them on the ladder cut. He
summed up by stating that their contracts are a matter of public record and he’s
not ashamed of any contract he has negotiated.

William Resch addressed the committee stating that he has been a Police Officer
with the city since 1979 and said a lot of this stuff is a scam. He said Ald. Weber
talked about discussing contract negotiations in public and said the city did that
last January with the canine issue which he said is the subject of a prohibitive
practice which has been filed with the WERC and which the city is going to have
to defend at $300 an hour. He said they are trying to negotiate their contract at
the same rate of pay and after giving the city more concessions, they are going
into arbitration. Mr. Resch distributed copies of an article from the Journal-
Sentinel which states that these budget problems are not employees, but are
levy limits and everything else. He said Green Bay didn’t prepare very well for
this problem, stating that each year they did what the city wanted and said the
city agreed to these contracts and now they are being treated badly. He said
they have given proposals to be more efficient, but said these have gone
nowhere. He echoed Fluffy’s comment that morale is low in the Police Dept. He
said instead of cutting one administrative job, the city cuts 3 or 4 jobs that provide
service. He stated that the city is going downhill quickly and invited anyone to
come on a ride along. He said we spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to a
law firm out of Wausau and asked what the city is getting for this? He said some
of the information regarding the canine issue was not correct, adding that the
union contracts are not killing this city as administration believes. He said their
union legal bills are at an all-time high. Mr. Resch said they come to meetings
and no one is here and said when the canine issue was taken up, it was moved
to the back of the agenda and many people had to leave and said they see
through this. He said the problem is not with the employees or with Council, but
with some formulas and the levy limits.

Ald. Wery said it will be an agenda item and will be addressed at the next City
Council meeting. Ald. Weber said there is frustration everywhere and on both
sides and said both sides see things a little bit differently. He said he hears the
same type of frustration from management and from committees and said it’s not
as one sided as Mr. Resch believes. He said the city doesn’t tell the Police
Union what attorney to hire and asked what that has to do with wages and
benefits, adding that the city needs to be represented on their side of the table
just as the union needs their side represented. Mr. Resch said in the near future
he will not be an employee since he has almost 30 years in, but said this is about
doing things if a way that does not cause them to file prohibitive practices. He
said things are changed and it did not used to be like this with attorneys deciding
everything at a high cost.

Motion made by Ald. Jeffreys, second by Ald. Weber to return to regular order of
business. Motion carried.

Ald. Jeffreys said the canine issue brings up a good point, stating that those
contract negotiations do not belong on the Council floor. She said we need to
balance what is going to happen at a Council meeting, the concept that we are
not going to be negotiating contracts at Council, but that they are there to listen.
She indicated that she doesn’t want to negotiate contracts on Council floor but
feels it’s important to give our citizens the forum to be heard. Ald. Wery stated
that he believes this should be forwarded to the Council, rather than received and
placed on file. Ald. Wiezbiskie clarified that the direction is moving to give
citizens the right to speak at City Council? When this was confirmed as correct,
he withdrew his motion to receive and place on file. Ald. Wery said he
appreciated all the comments and said it was important that all of Council and the
Mayor hear the comments.

Motion made by Ald. Jeffreys, second by Ald. DeWane to forward this item as an
agenda item to the Common Council for the September 16 th meeting, so that we
allow time on the agenda for employees and members of our community to
address the Council about their concerns with city contracts. Ald. Wiezbiskie
amended the motion to state that Council will not be there to make contract
decisions and that they go through the proper channels. Motion carried.

7. Request by Ald. VanderLeest to add a provision to all City Council
 meetings to allow for public input.
Ald. Vanderleest was not present and Ald. Jeffreys addressed the committee
stating that she is against having an open forum, adding that we don’t get
fairness when the rules are relaxed. She said it is easy to get on the agenda and
it’s not fair to allow open forum on any issue, since the parties who maybe should
respond to an issue may not be there. She said if Council members are not
being accessible, they need to be called on it and said individuals can put an
agenda item on a committee agenda. Ald. Wiezbiskie stated that he is not in
favor of an open forum either. He said he spends a lot of time studying issues
that come before the Council and he does not want to see Council meetings
turned into a circus with discussion on any issue, adding that many of those
meetings run late. He stated that he doesn’t feel Council can make good
judgment on issues at the wee hours of the morning. He said these things
should go through the proper committee. He summed up by stating that he
appreciates Mr. Resch stating that Council didn’t make this budget mess and
asked that the Unions bear with them as they work it out.

Ald. DeWane stated that they have all learned a lot and made a motion to receive
and place this item on file and said when something needs to be done, we’ll get it
in the proper place and get it done. Second by Ald. Jeffreys.
Discussion: Ald. Weber echoed many comments that had already been made.
He stated our representative system of government is a very well thought out
system and you are represented through the voices of your elected officials. He
said you get in some conflicts if you start opening meetings to inject items into an
agenda. He said if you have an open agenda, one side or the other is going to
be represented and nobody will be noticed that this item is going to be discussed
and multi-represented. He believes the intent of this item is to soften the rules
but said there are elements to that that could be frightening and said be careful
what you ask for. He stated that we don’t do this at the state or federal level,
adding that he appreciated Ald. DeWane’s motion and comment. Ald. Wery
stated that he puts things on the agenda that he doesn’t always agree with.

Ald. Vanderleest arrived at this time.

Ald. Wiezbiskie addressed Ald. Vanderleest stating that there has been a lot of
debate and concern regarding this item and asked that he trust the committee
and agree with receiving and placing on file.

Ald. Vanderleest apologized for being late, stating that he had been attending a
County executive meeting. He indicated that he brought this item forward to
allow for public input from citizens if they wish since citizens have been told they
could not have input without an item being on the agenda. He wanted debate on
this issue. Ald. Wery explained that there was discussion and a motion and
second was on the floor to receive and place on file. Ald. Vanderleest said the
County allows for public comment to agenda items only and we could look at
doing this at the City Council meetings.

Ald. DeWane stated that he was in favor of Ald. Vanderleest’s request and said
he has talked to other cities and they allow this. However, he said he now knows
enough to follow the rules and said items can be placed on the agenda, which is
the reason for his motion. Ald. Jeffreys said as a procedural issue, at I&S and
Parks they are respectful of the public’s time and if many people are there for an
item, they will rearrange the agenda. Ald. Wiezbiskie agreed and suggested
having a card for the general public to put their name, address, and what agenda
item they are there for, and to have a section for comment. He said if the
constituent has to leave before the agenda item is addressed, the President or
Vice-President can read the item into the record. Ald. DeWane said we already
do that, adding that some of the aldermen read emails from their constituents.
Ald. Weber stated that the Appleton City Council does exactly what Ald.
Wiezbiskie suggested, they fill out a card. He said Mayor Hanna reads them in
order and they have the spelling of the person’s name so there is no question
and said he likes this process; it’s a very orderly process.

A vote was taken on the motion to receive and place on file. Motion carried.

Motion made by Ald. Jeffreys, second by Ald. Wiezbiskie, to have a form that
would allow people to fill out their name, address, and the agenda item that they
are there for, as well as a section for comment, to allow for public input. Motion
carried.
There being no further business, motion made by Ald. Weber, second by Ald.
Jeffreys to adjourn. Motion carried.

Respectfully submitted,
Mary Haupt, Recording Secretary