Newsgroup: it.salute
Titolo: CALCIFICAZIONE arterie, come mai ?

salve, mia madre ha calcificazioni parietali
dell'aorta addominale...ma come succede che
un vaso si calcifica? e cosa puo' succedre
oltre al innalzamento della pressione? 
rimedi ? grazie mille sono preoccupato !!!
-- 
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 A parte alcuni casi non molto frequenti di calcificazioni della tunica
arteriosa media (ricordo che le arterie sono costituite da 3 strati, il piu'
interno si chiama intima) le calcificazioni arteriose compaiono in  una fase
piu' avanzata della placca ateromatosa.
E' una placca fibrolipidica a partenza dalla tonaca intima che in alcuni
casi puo' occludere un vaso impedendo il passaggio del sangue.
Nella placca fibrolipidica si depositano sali di calcio, ecco perche' si
vedono le calcificazioni negli esami radiologici.
E' opportuno controllare tutte le arterie piu' rischiose (carotide e
coronarie) per sincerarsi che la malatia arterosclerotica non sia avanzata a
tale livello.
Controllerei anche le calcificazioni dell'aorta (potrebbero indicare un
aneurisma dell'aorta.

ok marco, ma da dove derivano quewste calcificazioni ?
cosa si puo' fare farmaci o ? e di che tipo ???
grazieee


 grazieee
guarda qui :  
http://www.anagen.net/chelante.htm
http://www.mmmariani.com/terapia.htm
http://www.farmacovigilanza.org/fitovigilanza/corsi/20020415.01.htm
http://www.ifa.it/sitec/
TERAPIA CHELANTE  CON EDTA
ciao Kunga


Evitare di dare consigli del cavolo?
Sappiamo che non sei medico.
Sei ben conosciuto per i tuoi limiti mentali, non intervenire nelle
discussioni con consigli strampalati.

TERAPIA CHELANTE  CON EDTA
[ * ]
In October 1989, chelation therapy was listed as one of "The Top Ten Health
Frauds" in an article in FDA Consumer. The article reported that both the
FDA and the American Heart Association have said that there is no scientific
evidence that chelation therapy is effective against cardiovascular disease.
links utili :
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chelation.html
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chelationimp.html
Randomized, blinded clinical trials since then have been negative. In 1985
and 1986, Diehm et at. treated 45 patients with high-grade arterial
obstruction and intermittent claudication with either EDTA chelation or
Bencyclan, an anticoagulant. Measures included ability to perform pain-free
walking exercises, blood flow, red cell viscosity, erythrocyte aggregation,
triglyceride, and cholesterol levels. Measurements made during the 4-week
treatment period and for 3 months after treatment stopped showed both
treatment and control groups improved equally. Diehm concluded that
improvement was due to motivation from his strong interest in subjects'
well-being and their motivation to perform 
[ * ]
PS: ALLCAPS attempts to compensate for his limited rhetorical weaponry
through the extravagant use of capitalized words - something netizens refer
to as SHOUTING. 
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame33.html


Ragazzi,
ormai non dovrei piu' stupirmi di nulla.
Dovrei avere visto tutto.
Professori di fisiologia di modena che dicono di avere sconfitto il cancro
con medicine buttate li a caso senza criterio,
un autotrasportatore di Milano che dice che bere urina fa passare qualsiasi
malattia,
un medico di Roma che cura il cancro con il bicarbonato (per fortuna radiato
dall'albo dei medici e non piu' in condizione di nuocere),
molti medici che curano qualsiasi malattia con acqua fresca sbattuta,
ecc. ecc.
Ma continuo a stupirmi delle cazzate che si dicono in giro.
La terapia chelante per curare l'aterosclerosi!!!!!!!!!
Ma sono matti?
Ma davvero c'e' qualcuno che ci crede?
Ma nessuno li sbatte in galera a questi truffatori?
Comincia pure ad essere troppo per un osso duro come me.
Buona notte.

"marco magnano" <mar...@daTOGLIEREtariffenet.it> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:dz%9c.2274$l27....@news.edisontel.com...

ma perche' starnuti ?
il limitato sei tu ....
continua a struzzeggiare .... tanto la  TERAPIA CHELANTE   ESISTE   ANCHE
QUI   IN   ITALIA  .
Alla faccia di quelli come te .
Per tua conoscenza non la praticano sciamani nepalesi ma stimati
professionisti .... alcuni professori universitari ....
byebye KUNGA

 evidence that chelation therapy is effective against cardiovascular
disease.
e secondo te basta ?
tratto da :  
http://www.ifa.it/sitec/bibliografia.htm
ETUDE CAPILLAROSCOPIQUE DES EFFECTS DE L'EDTA CHEZ LES PATIENTS ARTÈRITIQUES
BLOOD FREE RADICALS REDUCTATION DURING CHELATION THERAPY: ITS INDIRECT
VALUATION THROUGH GLUTATION RED.
1985 - 1992: STUDIO  MULTICENTRICO  SU  791  PAZIENTI  VASCULOPATICI
L'EDTA NELLE VASCULOPATIE ATEROTROMBOTICHE. BASI SCIENTIFICHE
TRATTAMENTO CON MgNa2 EDTA DEGLI ARTERIOPATICI AL III - IV STADIO
METALLI PESANTI E TERAPIA CHELANTE
EFFETTO DEL TRATTAMENTO CON EDTA SULL'ATTIVITÀ DEI NEUTROFILI E DELLE
CELLULE ENDOTELIALI IN VIVO ED IN VITRO
CEREBROVASCULOPATIE E MINERALI TOSSICI. ANALISI STATISTICA MEDIANTE HAIR
ANALYSIS TEST
STUDIO DELLO STRESS OSSIDATIVO TRAMITE D-ROMS TEST PRIMA DURANTE E DOPO
TERAPIA CHELANTE CON EDTA.
D-ROMS TEST: METODO DI MONITORAGGIO DELLO STRESS OSSIDATIVO NELLE PATOLOGIE
VASCOLARI
EFFETTO PROTETTIVO DELL'EDTA SULL'ENDOTELIO VASCOLARE
LA TERAPIA CHELANTE CON EDTA IN ITALIA
MIOCARDIOPATIE E METALLI TOSSICI
Bibliografia Internazionale
  EDTA CHELATION THERAPY
 Bibliografia a cura di Stephen F. Olmstead, M.D.
Clinical Assistant Professor of Medicine Division of Cardiology
University of Washington School of Medicine
Funded in part by a grant from the A.C.A.M.
American College for the Advancement of Medicine
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 -_______________________________________________
byebye   KUNGA

 Ma nessuno li sbatte in galera a questi truffatori?
prova a denunciarli .... cosi' poi ridiamo ....
KUNGA

Ma puo' anche averli simili, in persone diverse.
[ un genio ,su it.salute ]

prova a denunciarli .... cosi' poi ridiamo ....
mosso da istinti compassionevoli
evitero' di commentare quanto questa frase e' stupida e velleitaria 
-- 
sgas ® UIN  69225877 
www.sgas.it
In God We Trust....
[ (All others pay cash :-) ]

Ma puo' anche averli simili, in persone diverse.
[ rappan ,su it.salute ]

Ma nessuno li sbatte in galera a questi truffatori?
Purtroppo non e' facile :-(
-- 
Ignazio GSS© * More than 90 HiRes images in my home page  
http://www.ipuddu.it
200 Images of digestive endoscopy
http://www.areamedica.com

 la tua maleducazione e' grande , microbo
mai quanto la tua presunzione .
Kunga

 a queste stronzate...
ma perhce' la butti in caciara ....
Orbito e terapia chelante ... bla...bla... l'amico tuo parla di oroscopi
....
fate solo pena ..
leggetevi seriamente le ricerche , BUFFONI
KUNGA

 anche gli oroscopi esistono in italia
come al solito .... ti auguro una buona arrampicata sugli specchi !!!
KUNGA

Orbito e terapia chelante ... bla...bla... l'amico tuo parla di oroscopi
E che differenza ci sarebbe tra Orbito e gli oroscopi?


 >professionisti .... alcuni professori universitari ....
Professori universitari....ma non di medicina.
Forse di storia e filosofia....
Per il resto nelle patrie galere c'e' anche posto per i professori
universitari.
E anche le assicurazioni dei professori pagano i danni da loro causati per
terapie improvvide e malpractice.

   EDTA CHELATION THERAPY
Giusto per evitare che qualcuno si impressioni per i 45 kbyte di citazioni
riportate da Kunga, vorrei fare notare che il 98% delle citazioni riguarda
articoli pubblicati tra il 1955 ed il 1980,
periodo nel quale la chirurgia vascolare dei bypass era agli esordi e
l'angioplastica transluminale non era ancora stata inventata.
Non c'erano le prostaglandine e non c'erano le statine.
Non si sapeva molto sugli antiaggreganti della nuova generazione  (e neppure
della vecchia in effetti, l'aspirina era solo un antidolorifico).
In pratica si brancolava nel buio e si cercava come curare la malattia
arterostruttiva degli arti inferiori e la coronaropatia ischemica.
Per fortuna la ricerca ha preso l'attuale piega e la situazione in questa
diffusissima malattia e' molto migliorata.
Per quanto riguarda gli articoli piu' recenti (tutti comunque  vecchi almeno
10 anni visto che le ricerche in questa sdirezione sono state abbandonate)
Kunga non sa , perche' non sa leggere, che molti degli articoli da egli
citati dicono proprio il contrario di cio' che vorrebbe.

mai quanto la tua presunzione .
la mia presunzione si basa su articoli  ben noti
agli addetti ai lavori , microbo  
http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3000843
After carefully reviewing all the available scientific literature on this
subject, the American Heart Association has concluded that the benefits
claimed for this form of therapy aren’t scientifically proven. That’s why we
don’t recommend this type of treatment.
The American Heart Association is concerned that some people who rely on
this therapy may delay undergoing proven therapies like drugs or surgery
until it’s too late. This is the added danger of relying on an unproven
miracle cure.
Clearly, people who choose chelation therapy are risking more than money.


 
http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3000843
sei proprio arteriosclerotico ...
presenti un sito con un'articoletto ... è li' tutta la sentenza ???
ci sono un pacco di altri lavori che attestano i benefici  della terapia
chelante  .
Credi di aver la parola ultima sulla scienza ?
continua pure ....tanto il mondo girera' pure senza di te .
Kunga

 citati dicono proprio il contrario di cio' che vorrebbe.
professore  , la prego .... mi indichi le mie mancanze ...
quali sono gli articoli che dicono il contrario ????
aspetto
Kunga

 terapie improvvide e malpractice.
E' dal 1950 che si pratica questa terapia e neanche una denuncia ... strano
....
KUNGA

Ma puo' anche averli simili, in persone diverse.
[ rappan ,su it.salute ]

 ....
Appunto.
E' una cura da anni 50.
Sono passati 54 anni!
Andresti in giro su un auto del 1950 (se non per motivi storico-affettivi)?
Saliresti su un aereo del 1950?
Per la medicina 50 anni sono una eternita'.
LE cose che ho studiato io all'universita' dal 1978 al 1984 sono
antiquariato scientifico, per fortuna mi sono aggiornato e so altre cose.
I tuoi amichetti del sitec non se ne sono accorti.
A proposito...vedo che a presidentessae' una neuropsichiatra.....
sara' un caso?

I tuoi amichetti del sitec non se ne sono accorti.
Ma figurati. Per loro sono ancora buone le teorie della fine del 700.


 quali sono gli articoli che dicono il contrario ????
Ne prendo uno a caso piu' recente del 1990 (permettimi di escludere quelli
degli anni 60 che hanno solo valore storico).
Circulation. 1994 Sep;90(3):1194-9. Related Articles, Links
Chelation therapy for intermittent claudication. A double-blind, randomized,
controlled trial.
van Rij AM, Solomon C, Packer SG, Hopkins WG.
CONCLUSIONS: Chelation therapy has no significant beneficial effects over
placebo in patients with intermittent claudication.
VUoi la traduzione?
La terapia chelante non porta significativi benefici rispetto al  placebo
nei pazienti con claudicatio intermittenti.
Dai Kunga, stavolta ti e' andata male.
Ripassa quando hai studiato meglio.
Nel frattempo fatti una bella cura di omeopatacche.
E datti una raddrizzata alla tua postura che mi sembra che il tallone piu'
basso di 1/4 di millimetro ha delle ripercussioni negative sulla tua
funzionalita' cerebrale.

professore  , la prego .... mi indichi le mie mancanze ...
per fare flooding ?
senti , microbo , perche' non te ne vai su pbmed 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed
e ci metti 
" Chelation Therapy in Arteriosclerosis" 
e torni con qualcosa  che ti giovi piu' di questo ?
Chelation therapy for intermittent claudication. A double-blind, randomized,
controlled trial.
van Rij AM, Solomon C, Packer SG, Hopkins WG.
Department of Surgery, University of Otago Medical School, Dunedin, New
Zealand.
BACKGROUND: The use of repeated intravenous infusions of EDTA, which has
become known as "chelation therapy," has been promoted for treating
intermittent claudication as well as a wide range of other disorders.
Multiple reports of excellent results in large numbers of patients have
encouraged the use of this regimen. The lack of well-controlled studies
substantiating the benefits of this treatment has limited its use mainly to
private clinics. The aim of the study was to assess the benefits of
chelation therapy in patients with intermittent claudication. METHODS AND
RESULTS: A double-blind, randomized, controlled trial included 32 patients
with intermittent claudication who were randomized to a treatment group (15)
and a control group (17). Main outcome measures were subjective and measured
walking distances and ankle/brachial pulse indices. Other outcome measures
included lifestyle and subjective parameters of improvement, cardiac
function, ECG, renal function, hematology, blood glucose, and lipid
biochemistry. No clinically significant differences in main outcome measures
between chelation therapy and placebo groups were detected up to 3 months
after treatment. Measures of mood state, activities of daily living, and
quality of life factors were not consistently affected by chelation therapy.
An equal proportion (13%) of each group thought that they had received the
active agent. The proportion of patients showing an improvement in walking
distance was not significantly different between the chelation group (60%)
and the control group (59%). CONCLUSIONS: Chelation therapy has no
significant beneficial effects over placebo in patients with intermittent
claudication.
-- 


 I tuoi amichetti del sitec non se ne sono accorti.
secondo me si ....
" Uno studio italiano del 1991, svolto presso l'Università di Palermo,
studiando con la capillaroscopia 90 pazienti arteriopatici trattati con
terapia chelante con e.d.t.a. ha documentato in vivo l'attivazione del
microcircolo a livello delle rilevazioni  acrali e congiuntivali (Ballo,
Mandolesi et al.). "
un altro recente studio effettuato nel 2000 presso l'Università di Milano ha
dimostrato l'effetto del trattamento con e.d.t.a. sull'attività dei
neutrofili e delle cellule endoteliali in vivo ed in vitro (Ferrero,
Mandolesi et al.).
tratto da :  
http://www.mmmariani.com/terapia.htm
leggiti pure : E.D.T.A.  ED ATEROSCLEROSI   nello stesso sito ....
la ricerca continua .....
KUNGA

 Ma figurati. Per loro sono ancora buone le teorie della fine del 700.
IL   TERRENO    E'    TUTTO
questo era ....e' .....sara' .... sempre attuale !!!
ciao pisolo
KUNGA

 
1-800-242-8721
invitali a discuterne in questa NG .....
KUNGA

invitali a discuterne in questa NG .....
ho invitato per mai i tuoi amici orbitosi 
non si sono fatti vedere eppure gli indirizzi mail erano validi 
microbo 	& coglione 
-- 
sgas
"Chi biasima la somma certezza delle matematiche si pasce di confusione, e
mai porrà silenzio alle contradizioni delle sofistiche scienzie, colle
quali s'impara uno eterno gridore" -- Leonardo da Vinci

 microbo & coglione
capisco l'eta' ... ma ho chiesto di invitare i tuoi " amici " .....
per i medici che praticano la terapia chelante ... tranquillo che rispondono
.
ciao ruttolo
Kunga

ciao pisolo
Ciao, merdolo.


 Ciao, merdolo.
non disprezzarla troppo .... niente concime niente frutti ....
Kunga

non disprezzarla troppo .... niente concime niente frutti ....
Solo perche' l'ho paragonata a te? Dai non buttarti giu' cosi' :-)
