Newsgroup: it.cultura.militare
Titolo: j-10 esegue il cobra di pugachev

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=91127&page=2
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e338/Hyperwarp/Hobbies/Military/PRC/Air/J-10/Ver-A/post-131-1244357520.jpg
non pensavo ci riuscisse, ma rafale e typhoon sono in grado di eseguire tale 
manovra che nel dogfight da un vantaggio decisivo 

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Il cobra di Pugachev lo faceva anche il Saab 35 Draken e non da un
vantaggio decisivo nel dogfight, e' solo un indicatore della capacit�
di manovra post-stallo che pu� tornare utile anche in combattimento
ma non e' fondamentale.
Il motivo per cui non e' consigliabile in combattimento e' che per
eseguirlo correttamente bisogna essere alla *velocit� ottimale*
ed in combattimento e' difficile essere nelle condizioni giuste
per farlo *e* rendersene conto in tempo.
Se lo si esegue a velocit� troppo bassa, non si riesce ad eseguire
la manovra (e si diventa un comodo bersaglio).
Se lo si esegue a velocit� troppo alta, durante la manovra
il pilota si becca una sberla di accelerazione troppo forte
e sviene (e si diventa un comodo bersaglio o ci si auto-elimina).
L. Micheletto

 manovra che nel dogfight da un vantaggio decisivo
Ma ha ancora senso parlare di Dogfight o studiare aerei adatti al
dogfight??
Cobra di Pugachev o no, un missile AA sarà quasi sempre superiore a un
aereo nella manovrabilità.
Persino nella recente Guerra del Cenepa tra Perù ed Ecuador credo che
le battaglie aeree siano state combattute esclusivamente usando
missili aria-aria.
Cfr:   
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_164.shtml
"Airborne by 12:49hrs, the two Mirages, flown by Maj. Raul Banderas
(on FAE807) and Capt. Carlos Uzcategui Soli (on FAE806), approached
the combat zone as first, followed by a pair of Kfir C.2s, flown by
Capt. Mauricio Mata (on FAE905) and Capt. Wilfrido Moya (on FAE909).
While interceptors were flying towards south-east, at 12:55hrs, the
COMAC recalled a FAE T-34C that acted as FAC, away from Condor
Cordillera, in order to prevent a possible “blue-on-blue” engagement.
Meanwhile, at 12:53hrs, two A-37s based at Macas were put on alert.
This time the FAE interceptors arrived in time to even make a few
patrol turns before engaging; the difference to earlier events was
that some of FAP fighters – probably Mirage 2000Ps – were flying high,
thus exposing themselves to detection by FAE radars. Indeed, Maj.
Banderas later stated to have had the first enemy fighter on his radar
scope barely eight minutes after taking off. The planes his Cyrano IV
radar detected were two FAP Su-22Ms, flown by Lt.Col. Victor Manuel
Maldonado-Begaza and Maj. Enrique Caballero Orrego “Poeta”, of the FAP
Escuadrón de Caza 111 “Los Tigres”. These cut the corner over the
border, penetrating as deep as 16km into the Ecuadorian airspace
before taking a course parallel to the boundary and then descending to
a level of 600m above the ground in preparation for an attack against
Tiwintza.
Banderas selected afterburner accelerating and turning so to bring his
and the Mirage of his wingman to a deep six o’clock position behind
the two Sukhois. While doing so, his RWR warned him that his aircraft
was detected and tracked by the radar of an enemy fighter. At
13:15hrs, ignoring the warnings, Capt. Uscategui approached to the
firing distance and launched one R.550 Magic, starting what was to
become the first-ever air-to-air combat between two Mach-2 capable
fighters in Latin American history. His missile hit the Sukhoi flown
by Lt.Col. Maldonado-Begaza, forcing him to eject before his fighter
crashed into the jungle bellow. Meanwhile, Banderas scored a hit at
Orrego’s Su-22M as well, but the sturdy Sukhoi continued flying. In a
hurry because of the warnings from his RWR, Banderas swiftly selected
the second Magic and fired again, the missile this time cutting the
Peruvian fighter in two, the wreckage falling to the ground. "
Sempre da ACIG (notate come un "Dragonfly" in effeti riesce a scansare
i missili AA)
"The obvious attempt of the two Peruvian Mirage 2000s to intercept
Ecuadorian F.1s was obviously a mistake, then now the other FAP
fighter-bombers active over the Condor Cordillera were left without
top cover. The other two FAE interceptors, the Kfir C.2-pair, namely,
were still in the area, their pilots following the development of the
encounter between Mirages and Sukhois. In fact, they reached their CAP-
station 15 minutes before the GCI vectored them to intercept a
formation of FAP A-37Bs that were about to strike Ecuadorian positions
in the combat zone.
Approaching the newly assigned area, Capt. Wilfrido Moya sighted two
FAP Dragonflies low over the jungle from a range of eight kilometres.
The FAP pair was led by Lt.Col. Hilario Valladares and Maj. Gregorio
de Mendiola, with wingman Lt.Col. Fernando Hoyos: the two high
officers both volunteered to fly this mission in order to state an
example for younger pilots of their unit.
The Peruvian pilots sighted their enemies as these were almost within
the missile range. Valladares and Hoyos both jettisoned their
ordnance, descended and executed a combat turn, attempting to face the
Kfirs and thus deny them an opportunity for missile shoots. The Kfirs
were faster, however: Capt. Moya fired one Shafrir Mk.II from a
maximum range, as his target was no less but 90 degrees off and
turning. Before being able to complete his turn, Valladares sighted
the missile approaching and then felt a heavy hit. Both engines were
instantly out and the rudder control severed, the A-37 being thrown
upside down and into a flat spin. While his pilot was struggling to
regain control over the mortally hit Dragonfly, Mendiola noticed they
were inverted and falling out of the sky, and finally decided to pull
the handle – ejecting them both at a very low level. Both pilots
landed safely and were later picked up by a FAP helicopter. Meanwhile,
Hoyos evaded additional attacks by the two Kfirs executing a series of
tight turns at a very low level around surrounding mountain peaks, and
disengaged safely.
Upon this loss of an A-37B, the other FAP aircraft and helicopters
were immediately ordered to leave the area: the Ecuadorian Air Force
thus established local air superiority over the battlefield.
Certainly, the downing of three Peruvian fighter-bombers presented an
immense triumph for Ecuadorian military, leaving no questions open. "
ACIG conclude che "[grazie ai loro missili AA Matra 550 e Shafrir]
***Regardless how manoeuvrable the fighters deployed by both sides
during this war were***, the FAE thus had a considerable edge in air-
to-air combat during the war in 1995."
MG

 ma non e' fondamentale.
E' molto utile avere elevati angoli di attacco per lanciare i missili 
verso il nemico

 Escuadr�n de Caza 111 "Los Tigres�. These cut the corner over the
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-- 
---
what if this, what if that, why this, why that, and things like that!
That's for sure, that's for dang sure!, my "true" synthetic memories are
online right here, log on 
www.oddhotcupoftea.net

 tale manovra che nel dogfight da un vantaggio decisivo
gli fa 'na sega il cobra carpiato della pugaviova sbattilova all'M346-F
http://www.spaghettifile.com/viewtrack.php?id=690134
oppure it-alt.binari.misc
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 verso il nemico
comprimo dei triplani fokker hanno una migliore manovrabilita' fanno
delle curve quasi a 90� inoltre sono leggerissimi ed atterrano in pochi
metri, inoltre data l'alta portanza decollano in pochi metri e non
necessitano nemmeno di catapulta!
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 aereo nella manovrabilitï¿½.
Giï¿½ adesso sono prevedibili situazioni realistiche in cui si
finisce con il trovarsi "a distanza di dogfight" con un potenziale
avversario, inoltre i missili AA non coprono tutte le situazioni.
Come se non bastasse, a parte le difese antimissile giï¿½ esistenti
(ECM, chaff e flares, ecc. ecc.)
ora si sta pure valutando seriamente la possibilita' di
avere dei caccia armati con cannoni laser utilizzabili
(anche) per neutralizzare missili AA nemici.
In particolare, a partire da un F-35B (per la gioia del
Terminator Magnetico) c'era una mezza idea di rimuovere
la ventola di sostentamento centrale per inserire al suo posto
una torretta laser ventrale da almeno 100KW di potenza effettiva.
In questo modo si sfrutterebbe l'albero di trasmissione
(che sugli F-35B aziona la ventola) per azionare il generatore
che alimenta il cannone laser.
L. Micheletto

 necessitano nemmeno di catapulta!
e meno male che ci hai risparmiato la stealthiness elevata dovuta alla 
struttura di legno e tela....
ma va' a farti fokkere.....

 Ecco l'M346-F
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5978/fes.jpg

 gli fa 'na sega il cobra carpiato della pugaviova sbattilova all'M346-F
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5978/fes.jpg

 wrote:
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:-)
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 ma va' a farti fokkere.....
:-)
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 che alimenta il cannone laser.
naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
meglio un plotone di BigDog armati di:
        -mitragliona guntling
        -missili TOW
supportati da un plotone di BigDog armati di:
        -mitragliona gungling
        -batteria di stinger
farebbero fuori sia i tank che eventuali caccia
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 wrote:
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l'm346f e' meglio
http://www.spaghettifile.com/viewtrack.php?id=690134
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