Newsgroup: it.politica
Titolo: explain me all your reasons ...

I think that turkish peolple cannot uderstand the italian reason because
they cannot understand the feelings of a people that belongs to a
civilized nation that has not death penality from 100 (hundred) years
and that cannot accept the idea to send a person to die in an
uncivilizated nation with barbaric laws. (is the same for USA or China!)
Always you collate various nation that have not given asylum to the
leader of PKK, but you forget always that the nation which you say are
all country similar at your, especcially the Syria.
Why you don't ask us about the possibilities you have to got this in
France, in German, in UK that are more civlized nation like italy ?
The turkish law is a law good for murderer people that wanna see blood
to have justice.
For example: can you explain me why if the kurdish speak their tongue
they are punished from your law ?
I'm sorry, but this I wrote is exactly what I think, but I must add that
I love very Turkey and I saw Turkey two times and for the next summer I
thinked to go in Turkey .... but now I'm afraid because I'm italian.
kazz' ... siamo quasi all'incidente diplomatico. Ma questo è quello che
penso e non mi andava di nasconderlo oltre.
P.S.: quasi, quasi gli propongono uno scambio di persona tra DiGiovanni
e Abdalla Ocalan.
Toglietelo da IT: chiudetelo anche nelle carceri turche e buttate la
chiave 
(sorry: the final sentence is not important for the contest and it's
like a little joke)
-- 
Ciao ....
       Massimiliano ADAMO
    E-mail: 
maxa...@usa.net

Italian Reason? What can be the reason for protcting a man that killed 35000
peoples?
Give me a greater reason.
Your other Q's was answered before.
What kind of penalty a civilized nation like Italy would give a man who
killed 35000 Italians?
Five Star Hotel-Hospital with Full Comfort?
Nevit
Max_Adamo wrote:

--
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9594/dream.htm

 Ciao ....

like a little joke)
Thousand of  young soldiers died and dying still, thousands
of families are mourning.  these people murdered other kurds
and their children, who did not support pkk 
And you make jokes here . You make me sick. 
Grow up , and do something for the world cause. stop giving
credit to terrorism. Stop believing lies,  and try to learn
seriously, if you are really interested that is .   instead
of making silly jokes here. 





So, in order to change the legislature you find it justifiable to resort
to guerilla activities thereby killing 30,000 people. I wonder whether any
other parliamentary regime in the world condones guerilla activities
whenever a law could not be changed via parliamentary procedures....

-- 
Kerimcan Ozcan					
Doctoral Pre-Candidate in Marketing
University of Michigan Business School
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

uncivilizated nation with barbaric laws. (is the same for USA or China!)
I don't want to get into a discussion into the Turkish and Kurdish position
on this issue because I know far too little about it, but I do know, being
an Italian citizen that the death penalty had been a part of Italian
military law in war (Codice Penale Militare di Guerra) until just a few
years ago. Since the rule was abolished not more than ten years ago, I
wonder if it was just ten years ago that Italy, according to this criterion,
suddently switched from being barbaric to becoming a civilized country....
Mr. Adamo should recall that our president, Oscar Luigi Scalfaro, gave
himself the death penalty as a judge just after WWII: how come we are so
"civilized" if we have such a "barbaric" individual as our president?
Francesco

 suddently switched from being barbaric to becoming a civilized country....
Italy abolished death penalty from the "ordinary" code in 1948, and from
the military law (never applied in the meanwhile) in 1994. 
Lisa

 Italy abolished death penalty from the "ordinary" code in 1948, and  
I apologize: 1947.
Lisa


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copy from:
On 18 Nov 1998 02:55:19 -0800, Kubilay Oncu


 is death penalty there?
I consider death penalty ONE of the many aspects that contribute to the
civilization of a country. I usually don't make global statements about
the absolute level of civilization of a country. For what concerns me,
death penalty is a deep sign of a particular aspect of "uncivilization".
In the USA, in Turkey, in China, or wherever else. 
bye
Lisa


Signore "Adamo", from this statement we can draw a number of conclusions.
You are either...:
A) A worry rock afraid of his own shadow.
B) Brainwashed by PKK propoganda.
C) Someone who knows absolutely nothing about Turkey, and the Turkish
people (do you seriously think that we're now out to lynch all Italians??!?
Please, next you'll be ringing the Church bells, telling your countrymen
that the "TURKS ARE COMING!"
D) The figment of some Kurdish or Greek extremist's imagination.
Forgive me if I go for D). 

 "civilized" if we have such a "barbaric" individual as our president?
I might be wrong, but I seem to recall that he requested death penalty
against a war criminal as a public prosecutor. The sentence was not carried
out.
--
Stefano Soro,
Bruxelles


 
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...


 the military law (never applied in the meanwhile) in 1994.
Thisi is not exact.
Italy abolished death penality in XIX century.
After, with fascism, death penality came back, about 1920-1930
After, it.s like you wrot.e


 free to walk in Italy like an Italian citizen?
In Italy we had many persons from Red Brigades that have gotten polityc
asylum in France.
Toni Negri is one of this: when Toni Negri went in France it obtained
asylum and worked as Teacher in the university of Paris "Sorbona".
Now, from few years, he is in Italy and it is in a prison but not on an
electric chair.


After, it.s like you wrot.e
So, the fascist period (and the following years) do not count? Conveniently
forgot about them? Was Mussolini Turkish? I feel you should apologize to all
Turks on this forum, unless you wish to prove how uncivilized this
particular Italian (you) can be in not apologizing after having been proven
wrong.
Francesco

out.
I stand corrected: obviously this doesn't change anything regarding Scalfaro
and the issue. That the sentence was not carried out does not change how he
felt about it when he asked for it.
Francesco

 wrong.
Senti tolgo il crosspost e ti rispondo in italiano perché mi stanco a
scrivere in inglese.
1) Io non mi sento di dovermi scusare con i turchi su questa questione
perché ho sposato la causa dei curdi fin da prima che di questi ultimi
sviluppi.
2) I turchi dovrebbero a loro volta scusarsi da parte per tutte le
vittime curde che loro hanno fatto.
3) Sono contrario in tutti casi alla pena di morte e i miei toni
sarebbero ugualente polemici anche se parlassi con uno statunitense. Per
me da questo punto di vista sono barbari anche gli USA e la Cina.
4) In Kurdistahn è in gioco una questione importante di diritti umani:
non so se hai appena letto quella assurdità citata da un tale che
riporta il conenuto delle leggi che addirittura vietano ai curdi di
parlare nella loro ... se non quando sono chiusi in casa.


 How many tens, or hundreds of thousands of Kurds has YOUR government killed?
No, first YOU stop the bullshit! Does Turkish government's killing Kurds make
the
statement of "PKK is the killer of tens of thousands of people" false? No. So,
where is the bullshit? (except yours).
As for Turkish government killing "Kurdish rebels": give me the name of one
state
which would not take military action against armed groups attacking people in
the
country.
Italian government maybe? Nooo... YOUR government (this was
YOUR expression) killed even hopeless refugees.
Levent

How many times I asked the same,
do you know the magazin "welat" "
do you know that even in Ankara, they were radio stations playing
mainly Kurdish music ?
And at least, who banned Kurdish inside PKK communications ?
Nobody ! Why they al hold the communication in Turkish ? 
A organization behind the right for Kurds to speak their "mother
language", that itself could not speak Kurdish .....
Did not Apo learned Kurdish so far that he could only read
written papers in Kurdish, only reading...


 


Ocalan gets the right to kill from several sources. Italy shares the game.
Nevit
Levent wrote:

--
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9594/dream.htm

like a little joke)


chiave 
Ahahaha, le hai proprio patite le mie risposte di altrove, a quanto
vedo...
E poi penso proprio che su it.comp.os.dibattiti non avrebbero dubbi su
chi chiudere in un carcere turco... 
Va bene, ne riparleremo quando andrai a farti curare... per adesso
evita simili trollate di cui non importa una mazza a nessuno,
perdipiu' in un post di tutt'altro contenuto e in un newsgroup che
solitamente non frequento.

 chiave



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...
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 >     E-mail: 
maxa...@usa.net
--
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9594/dream.htm

Lisa Could you please explain what should be done to Apo in case Italy does not
will to give it back to Turkey. Some major lawyers in Italy say that Ocalan can be
given to Turkey because Turkey has not practised death penalty, some add that there
should be an additional written warranty that Ocalan would not be excecuted.
What is your countries code of law for a man who killed 35000 pepole?
Nevit
Lisa wrote:

--
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9594/dream.htm

 felt about it when he asked for it.
Don't get me wrong: I am _not_ giving any judgment on this particular issue.
Scalfaro said that he felt very bad about it, during the trial and for a long
time after, and that (being what he is) he prayed a lot. He even went
to talk to the convicted criminal after the trial. Whatever.
In general (and here I do have an opinion), I am glad that people change their
minds over time. DP was extremely common then, at least by today's standards.
Until the 40's most European countries (including democracies such as the UK)
not only had it in their law, but carried it out every now and then.
Ciao.
--
Stefano Soro,
Bruxelles


Nevit
Thanks to God not the death penalty

 should be an additional written warranty that Ocalan would not be excecuted.
 
I was not talking about Ocalan at all. I was just talking about what I
think of death penalty in general.
Lisa

> 


Lisa, the problem is not the death penalty in Turkey. I, for one, would want
laws for death penalty to be dismissed at no time. If it were for the death 
penalty I could understand it. (There are discussions in our parliment to 
dismiss those laws too) The problem is Italian government is considering to 
give Ocalan political refugee status. He killed about 30.000 people, many of 
which are civilians, and then Italy make him a political figure, because
there is death penalty in Turkey. This is ridiculous. We may have dissimilar
thoughts on what counts being a civil country, but I think we can agree that
a country which protects terrorism and give someone who killed 30.000 
civilians political refugee status is not very much civilised.
Best regards
Ali Ferhat Tamur
fer...@cs.jhu.edu

 CIVILIZATION disgusts me !
Or rather, Italian cizilization. We shouldn't make a disgrace to all other
civilizations of the world. 
-- 
Kerimcan Ozcan					
Doctoral Pre-Candidate in Marketing
University of Michigan Business School
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

 Levent
Ciao,
	Michele

political figure, because there is death penalty in Turkey. 
Ali, this is not completely correct. The problem of the presence of
death penalty in Turkey and that of Ocalan's political status are
different and separated. As for the first one, there is not much to
say: extradating Ocalan to Turkey would be a violation of our
Constitution, so Italy just cannot do it. Period. The second issue,
on the other hand, is clearly a political and not a judiciary one,
and is indeed much more complicated: on one side, there is the Turkish
government (and a lot of Turkish people as far as I can see) that
claims that Ocalan is a terrorist and is responsible for the death
of thousands of people; on the other side, there are a lot of 
Kurdish people claiming a complete different thing, i.e. that
Ocalan is a political leader persecuted by a regime that violates
human, civil and political rights. It should be clear that, to
take a fair decision, Italy has to examine all elements of the
issue (including, of course, the evidence of Ocalan's criminal
responsability that Turkey claims, Interpol reports, etc., but also
human rights organizations reports, etc.). It should be also clear,
in my opinion, that the pressure coming onto the Italian government
from both sides does not help anybody. In any event, surely Italy
cannot be conditioned by any kind of "blackmailing", whether it
is a terroristic threat or an economical boycott, and wherever it
comes from.
 Best regards
          Saverio
WARNING: To send me e-mail, remove "maggio." from the address.

superiors.
There are a lot of imprecisions in the story you told. But, besides
that, you are wrong on the main point of your argument. Perhaps you
did not get the latest news on that story: few days ago the "Corte
di Cassazione" (the Italian highest-degree Court) has taken a final
decision on Erik Priebke, and, yes, he is in jail (sentenced to life
imprisonment).


 EB
Ciao,
	Michele


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Saverio,
Italy invited Ocalan by glimpsing at him and already does a strong support
for him. Italian Press censor anything Turkish. The circus program Pinocchio
on Rai-Duo invited several Turkish journalists to contribute to a program. A
preprogrammed trap for the journalists. Only one of them allowed to speak,
and total time allocated was 7 minutes. This is the situation in all Italian
Press. Ocalan committed the crimes in Turkey according to the laws of
Turkey. Kidnapping, murder, smuggling. His first victim at 1977 was one of
his friends. So Italy invited trouble. It is not up to Italians to judge
Ocalan. He commited his crimes in Turkey. And Italian Primeministers
explanations are un acceptable. Italy is on the side of a serial killer.
Italy as ally of Ocalan will be responsible for PKK acts past, present and
future. This is what should be very clear.
Nevit
Saverio Cittadini wrote:

--
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9594/dream.htm

I call every turk posting in various newsgroups to post in a reasonable and
respectful manner, stay away from this polemic shit like SPAGHETTI AND OTHER
lowlevel bullshit by doing so you are not only spitting onto the italians
pride you do it also on our flag
Arkadaslar lütfen dilinize dikkat ediniz bu türklüge yakismiyor lütfen
karsinizdaki insanlarin bayraklarina ve kültürlerine sagduyu ile darvranmaya
gayret gösterelim.
Selam
Serdar


Maybe we all should be thankful to "Corte di Cassazione" which finally 
proved that some Italian goverment officials can have a BACKBONE ! How 
surprising ! I thought that Italian officials with backbones used to be found 
only at back streets with their throats slashed or shot in the head lying in 
the trunk of a car ! Or, in some cases blown up to pieces in front of their 
family members. Am I wrong ? 
If "civilized" Italians acted upon rather than watching their goverment 
officials being killed, we wouldn't be in this situation. The Italian 
goverment would have had some piece of mind, and maybe shame... 
Again, it was Italian Jews success which got this monster back to where he 
belongs. Also, how long did it take for finally the legendary Italian Justice 
to put him where he belongs !
Ciao


We know.
What you don't know is respect for human life ! Just like NAZIs you are 
feeding on other peoples agony and blood. BTW,  Italy was the eager bed 
partner of the NAZIs ? How stupid of me, I forgot ! Opps...
Some of your civilizations great accomplishments => Nazism, Italian fascism 
and communism (still alive and well) , Mafia ( gun/drug smuggling, 
prostitution rings, child pornography etc..) .....
Now, I see better why you love your civilization and I despise it. 
EB

much?). 
5th industrial power in the world ? I bet you don't know how to count. 
Does it mean that Italy is fearing to face Turkey alone ? In that matter, 
Italian goverment is famous for deserting their allies when they face the 
hardship.  
Also, what you don't know is Italian economy is a house of cards. Just check 
how Italy produces its energy, what is the main source of electricity in Italy 
? How many nuclear power plant or for that say "independent" sources of energy 
in Italy ? Any fluctuation in oil prices will hit Italy the hardest. 
EB

 whenever a law could not be changed via parliamentary procedures....
--The Kurds elected, for the first time in the history of the Turkish 
parliament, 21 Kurdish representatives (1993). The Turkish government and 
the fascists in the parliament pulled them from the swearing in ceremonies 
and beat them physically in the parliament 
because these Kurdish parliamenterians repeated the oath also in Kurdish. 
This was perceived as a great blasphemy. The media beat the war drums and 
the Kurdish parliamentarians were stripped of their immunity and put in 
prison. 5 of these Kurdish parliamentarians, one of them a women, the 
winner of Skharov Freedom Award, are still rotting in a Turkish prison. 
The others escaped to Europe and established the Kurdistan Parliament in 
Exile (KPE) based in Brussels.  So, what parliamentary procedures are you 
talking about, in a country ruled by the National Security Council?
--No doors are left open for the Kurds. This is a struggle of life and 
death for the Kurds. For you it is PROJECTING YOUR FEARS AND INSECURITIES 
ONTO ANYTHING YOU PERCEIVE AS THREATENING TO YOU...
What a waste of life....Sit down and talk to the Kurds. Let us stop this 
devastating war. After all, we have to live together and side by sides. 
If blind rage and stupities run so wildly among us, how are we going to 
look at each others faces tomorrow? Can we really live together if things 
are pushed this far? 
Wake up and reason...Let us leave a better world for our children. War is 
no way to go.....Let's find a peaceful way to end this fraternal war...
[rest erased for space]

 which are civilians, 
--I beg your pardon, mr. Lier, let us look at the facts:
Of these dead people (the actual number is higher):
. Only about 5,000 are Turkish soldiers killed by the PKK,
. 4,000 are Kurdish civilians, some killed by the army and some by the PKK,
. 21,000 are the PKK fighters (men and women) killed by the Turkish army.
--But these aren't the only war casualties. Ther are more victims of this 
dirty and savage war:
. 10,000 Kurds have been assassinated by "unknown assailants" - you read 
it as death by death squads a la Central America.
. 4,000 Kurds disappeared under police and army custody.
. 3,000 Kurdish villages and 6 cities have been destroyed and..
. 3.5 million Kurdish peasants are expelled from the area. 
. There is continuing food embargo in Kurdish areas. Peasants have to buy 
the food, of a predetermined quantity from the military posts in their area.
. As a result of lack of food, there is malnutrition and epidemic 
diseases rampant in the area. 
--Mr. Ocalan has declared unilaterally three cease fires to find a 
political and peaceful solution in 1993, 1995 and the latest on Sept 1, 
1998. Eact time the Turkish state refused to talk to the Kurdish side. 
In the light of all this, you are lying shamelessly and distorting the facts.
Also, if you are looking for a true terrorist it is within the ranks of 
the savage Turkish state. It does not want peace, it wants war and 
depopulation of Kurdistan. It is the same trick, the militaristic regime 
used against the Armenians, the Greeks and the Assyrians to depopulate 
Anatolia and to make a homeland out of it. THOSE WHO BASE THEIR WELL 
BEING AND HAPPINES ON THE UNHAPPINES AND TRAGEDY OF THE OTHERS, WILL 
NEVER TRULY BE HAPPY.......in the long run.......


no way to go.....Let's find a peaceful way to end this fraternal war...
This is the only place where I agree with your comments but you seem not
to see the implications of your own words in the context of PKK which
clearly is not a democratic organization, does not draw any kind of
legitimacy in the form of electoral support, has nothing to show in its
record but a loooong list of brutal and treacherous terrorist attacks on
civilians and security forces. 


not only had it in their law, but carried it out every now and then.
I too am glad that Italy and all other countries which have determined to
get rid of the death penalty have done so. However, since we are supposedly
a "civilized" country and Turkey isn't (according to some on this NG), I
find it really odd that we have chosen someone as President who has
committed the very act that makes some of us say Turkey is barbaric.
Francesco

     E-mail: 
maxa...@usa.net
Kinyas


 EB
Ciao,
	Michele

 
That's is more like what I recalled.
Ciao,
	Michele

Massimo dear,
I don't think you and your comrades are in any position to understand any
simple and logical reason coming from Turks lately.  Forget about the
reasons, look at the facts on our hands.  PKK is known as an indisputable
terrorist organization in the World.  They have not been elevated to the
PLO's status any shape or form today.  This is your current wish of course
but untill then, you have to act like any civilized society and obey the
international norms.  Come to the grip of these facts and be aware of that
PKK members are still considered as terrorists by every civilized country
today not a political victim (whether or not you or your comrades in Italy
like it).
Yes. there is a death penalty in Turkey and it was not applied to anyone
unless the convict is the public enemy or a serial killer.  This is a mute
point right now.  The Italians are currently arguing whether Ocalan is a
terrorist criminal or a political victim driven to shed blood.	That is why
he is not in prison and tried to be placed in Italian society as a political
refugee as if he is a Mandela or Havel.  That is why the reason of the
Turkish outrage at this point for the masterminds of this act in Italy.
However, Turks are aware of why this is though.  Behind the humanitarian
bullshit spin act to put forward in the world stage, the hostility from
Italians toward Turkey and Turkish interests on this matter is the fear of
Turkey's potential economic might.  In the world market, the Italians are the
ones to feel the heat first better than anybody else at this point. Forget
about the big dent in the Tourism economy being suffered in last 10 years. I
have personally witnessed the Italians' agony in the USA at first hand from
the pasta/spaghetti war.  Italians were seen beaten like this in their own
game in textile, leather goods, grain and vegetable product markets
everywhere by the Turkish firms. Believe me, I would resort to same tactics
to destabilize Turkish interests wherever and whenever I can if I were a
civilized Italian.  So join the crowd behind the
Greeks/Armenians/Syrians/Germans for the similar friendly acts towards Turks
for your own good and self interests but soon or later this wrong doing will
be understood by everyone in Italy.  No one will be convinced such a crap as
long as Ocalan's character and his past stinks up the place like the toilet
visited frequently by the sufferer of the stale garlic bread and bad clam
saus.  Forget about it, huh?
C. Akgun


 nationalist propaganda act to blame only one side!
But on the other hand, the following is not a f**king  italian
nationalist propaganda act, huh? It only took couple of postings
to show Michele's real face.


 Levent
Ciao caro,
	Michele

         Michele

 sozetti  :

That's true Ocalan -but not Mr.- has declared cease fire in 1993
 , and then they killed 35 demobilized soldiers ot having any
guns . That's the Ocalan's cease fire .
Zahiri 


in Italy ? Any fluctuation in oil prices will hit Italy the hardest.
in Italy the nuclear plant are forbidden.
kreo

seeking refugee status.
all the kurdish men that come in Italy by ship aren't shooted, it's
the turkish and albanian mafia that put on a little poor ship
thousands of kurdish and albanian, all the immigrated we give their
an hospitality, why many kurdish, albanian, turkish, tunisian come
in Italy from France, Germany, Belgium?????????????????
~ KreO ~


I think your not seeing things very clearly.  Here is the case.  You are
saying to an Italian how would he feel if his brother was decapitated because
of fighting.  If you asked me, "I would say, I really don't care because he
is not my brother".  But since you are turkish and he is your brother why
don't you do anything?	All the people of Turkey are guilty for the deaths of
all the young turks killed fighting in battle.	The heads of the Turkish
State have no problem sending others besides their own sons to chase of rebel
Kurds but, yet here you are blaming an Italian, which has nothing to do with
it.  You blame Greeks and Syrians for all your deaths, but I would say to
you.  Go ask any mother who lost her child because of this war and she will
say "Give them their land if that would bring my son back".  Obviously, your
government dosen't realise that there is no end to this struggle.  As turkish
citizens you should have all taken to the streets in mass demonstrations in
order to force the government to begin a dialoge with the Kurds and create a
safer country for you to live in.  Obviously this has not happened and the
war goes on for 13 years now and the end is no where in sight.	If you think
land makes a country strong and the blood of young boys is worth the price to
keep it, then continue with the war. The most logical solution would have
been for your President to stop calling these people "terrorists" and begin a
political dialogue with the Kurds.  The best political solution would be to
give them some kind of political autonomy within the state of Turkey.
1. So they can self-govern themselves.
2. So they can enjoy the freedoms and rights they themselves wish.
3. So the guerilla war would end and many lives would be saved by this.
One thing that you will discover in your life is the blessing of comprimise.
You cannot have it only your way.  Sometimes it is best to comprimise rather
than to fight forever.	In the long-term both Turks and Kurds will reap the
benefits of peace.  I think it is time the people of turkey actually start
ruling the country.  The army is playing with your minds.  Wake up.  Do not
be hard headed like a bull.  Realise that your elite wants Turks to feel
constantly threatened by other nations and countries so they can turn around
and say to you "You need us in order to protect you".  I think that the
reason they are doing this is that you do not think about other problems
turks are facing. Illiteracy, high inflation, low wages, unemployment
especially among young people, no freedom of speech or the press, poor
infrastructure.  All these things are alienating people in Europe and thus
their reluctance to allow you in the EU, which has very good benefits for
developing countries.  You mustn't think that this is just because you are
Muslim.  That has nothing to do with it.  It will take some time but, Turks
have to fight for a more just, decent and democratic government than the one
you have now.  Ask yourself, "Are these the kind of people I want to lead
me?", "Are these the kind of people I would make head of my house?".


 OH come on mate ... Your post i full of the same rethorical crap of some Mr
Mussolini's sčeech. The proble, the FINALE problem is .
Do you have the death penalty in Turkey?
Even if it in not used since many years any judge can sentenced somenone
with the punishment of death penalty, isn't it?
So clean your ears , whash your glasse and LISTEN
IT IS AGAINST OUR CONSTITUTION TO GIVE CONSENT FOR THE ESTRADITION OF
ANYBODY IF THIS PERSON IS LIABLE OF THE DEATH PENALTY. PERIOD.
NOT EVEN THE WORST SERIAL KILLER. THIS RULE IS IN THE CONSTITUTION.
SO CUT THE CRAP AND START WORKING, INSTEAD OF YOUR CHILDREN.
BYE
CORRADO
ICQ 19941519

 emigrate? Invite them to Turkey. Period. Do you want fries with that?
Yes, it is what you really think. That's my point. If we express our
views, it is "f**king nationalist propaganda". If you do express it, it is
'what you really think'. What a consistency!  I have a feeling that
you are a bit dumb.
Anyway, now that we know what you really think, we can give the
dictionary definition for the word 'hypocrisy' which you have mentioned
in capital letters. Webster's dictionary gives it as:
"HYPOCRISY: the false profession of desirable or  publicly approved
qualities, beliefs, or  feelings, esp. a pretense of having virtues, moral
principles, or religious beliefs that one does not really possess."
Please, next time don't speak in the name of all Italians. I am sure
there are many Italians who don't share your views.
Levent

Independence democratically). Keep your crap for yourself.
Little Fascist/Racist Michele,
Now, I see you're one of those girls of Venice. The ones served willingly and 
lovingly to the Gestapo and other NAZI officers on RR. I don't think that not 
even one second you thought about what was happening to JEWs. You couldn't 
careless. Yip, you are civilized.
When the Americans came and employed the Mafia who wiped out whole 
Italian villages just becasue they were "god damn commies" . You knew very 
well what was happening, but kept on dancing to the same music but this time 
with the Americano's, ain't it ? I bet you loved the tune. Yip, you are 
civilized Michele. 
Of course, you didn't care when your FASCIST guards open fire on the ALBANIAN 
women and children, didnot even move a finger when their boat sank. I don't 
know who were you pleasing under the table when that was happening, in a 
civilized manner, of course. Nothing less pleases you I hope....
Anyway, I wonder if IBM knows about you spreading fascist/racist propaganda 
against Turkish and Kurdish people on the net using their facilities.  
Now, go take on the day....


emigrate? Invite them to Turkey. Period. Do you want fries with that?
Look who is talking again, fascist rascist little Michele, 
I read on the a newswire that there is going to a be a convention on the 
Changing face of NAZISM in the 21st century held by the Neo-Nazi organisations 
all over EU at Venice this Spring. They are looking for CIVILIZED fascist 
Venician girls who will employed to serve the attendees under the table. Go 
sign up with your friends.


Establishing a slave-marxist state
SLAVE WHAT. COME RECONNECT YOUR BRAIN AND SYTART THINKING. IF WE ARE A SLAVE
MARXIST STATE YOU ARE BECOMING ONE OF THE WORST ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF THE
WORLD. IF YOU KEEP GOING LIKE THIS YOU'LL BE WORST THAN AFGHANISTA AND
ALGERIA

IN FRONT OF ME
I am quite sorry to tell you that I can't come to your country because I am 
afraid your CIVILIZED country disgusts me. Plus, being a proud member of this 
CIVILIZED nation, you are itching to harm me just like your forefathers did to 
JEWISH people.
I don't think that 40+ years is enough for you to give up your RACIST feelings 
and past.
Also, ITALIAN judicial system is proved to be quite corrupt.
A small reminder; Italy was the favorite spot for the GESTAPO on RR during 
WWII, and they found a lot of dates among Italian women. When the Americano's 
came in, they found even more dates among Italian women. So now, before you 
call someone a SOB, just check your family tree may be you are more likely to 
be one. Not that it is your mistake....  

 committed the very act that makes some of us say Turkey is barbaric.
I'm not sure about this. If you want, we can continue this discussion in
private, where we could for instance consider the attitude of Italy towards
the French not handing over members of the Red Brigades & Co.
Ciao.
--
Stefano Soro,
Bruxelles


 Does it mean that Italy is fearing to face Turkey alone ?
Uh, well, I don't think so. Ehm, Turkey is the only European country whose military is in a
sorrier state than ours...
Bye
Eugenio

 sorrier state than ours...
Sorry, but I fail to see your basis for making this statement. It is
generally accepted that Turkey is one of the strongest military forces in
Europe.

sorrier state than ours...
Italy has never displayed that they can fight a fair and straight war. Both in 
1st and 2nd WWs, you were miserable. Come on, you can bark loud but cannot 
bite ! BTW, Vietnamese didn't have a lot of guns.