Newsgroup: it.politica
Titolo: Direct democracy

Robin Cantin
Democray can be best defined as two foxes and one sheep deciding what
to have for dinner.
-Dave
http://www.city-net.com/~davekle/


I think that an even better definition of democracy is; Democracy is a
system in wich anyone (For example: Dave) can say whatever he/she wants
to about the system, look cool doing so and be alive the morning after.

to about the system, look cool doing so and be alive the morning after.
Is that democracy or freedom of speech? Are they always equivalent?
Jerry Bunin           				Telegram-Tribune 
jbu...@slonet.org
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jbu...@surfari.net
 
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805-481-2455
 
805-781-7935

Is that democracy or freedom of speech? Are they always equivalent?
Jerry,
I don't think there is any relationship between the two.
Minoli S.A is actually confusing democracy with  freedom of speech and
our right to defend ourselves (Article the fourth - The Second
Amendment).  
In a democracy, 51% could decide to deny us of these rights.  The
purpose of the Second Amendment is to allow the people to defend their
legitimate rights (rights which impose no obligation on others).
-Dave
http://www.city-net.com/~davekle/
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a
few public officials." 
-- George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426. 
"If every person has the right to defend - even by force - his person,
his liberty, and his property, then it follows that a group of men
have the right to organize and support a common force to protect these
rights constantly."
-THE LAW, by Fredric Bastiat, Paris, 1850
"The United States should get rid of its militias." 
-- Stalin, 1933

-Dave
Not in the US system.  It requires a 3/4 majority to make such changes.  Of 
course there are way around that too. Such as an overly liberal or 
conservative judicial system that legislates from the bench by doing all sorts 
of wierd interpertations of the Constitution (sort of like what has been 
happening for the last couple decades)
- Mike

 
---slip
Those who think their freedoms come from the barrel of a gun are like
those who think their love life comes from inside their pants.
Ultimately, they have neither.
Marty


dav...@city-net.com
 wrote:


Marty,
A weapon is a useful tool in defending freedom.  I never meant to
imply it was our source of freedom and rights.
-Dave
http://www.city-net.com/~davekle/
"this is my rifle, this is my gun, this one's for shooting, this one's
for fun"

Ultimately, they have neither.
This quip is a rather simplistic assertion that the use of force is in no way 
connected to, and is even incompatible with, the ideals of freedom.  This is a 
naive point of view.
As a society, we recognize that our personal freedoms are occasionally 
violated by some people.  Criminals exist who practice depriving people of 
their rights to their personal property, their safety and even their lives.  
Sometimes the only means of stopping a person from infringing upon these 
freedoms is the use of force, ranging from handcuffs to the stopping power of 
a defensive firearm discharge.  This is why we arm police officers.  Some 
would argue, as would I, that this is also why other members of society who 
have no criminal history should also retain a right to be armed.
As a nation, we recognize that governments occasionally practice depriving the 
people of other nations (and sometimes even their own nation) of their 
freedoms.  Examples include Iraq's invasion of Kuwait and Hitler's attempt to 
conquer the world and to kill all the members of various ethnic and 
political groups.  There are countless others, many of which I am sure you 
must be aware.  This is why we have a military.
Do you seriously believe that a free society can exist for long if it doesn't 
have the means to defend its freedoms when necessary?  If we strip ourselves 
of the option of the use of force, I believe our freedoms will be shortlived.
-- 
| Daniel R. Field, AKA InfoSpunj | "Lieutenant, you ejected from a $36   |
| 
dfi...@oboe.aix.calpoly.edu
    | million fighter aircraft because you  |
| Biochemistry, Biotechnology    | saw a spider?!?"                      |
| California Polytechnic State U | --"But Admiral, it was a big spider." |