Newsgroup: it.politica
Titolo: Who is Jesus?

Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the
second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible which is
used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for
doctrine within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to
consult your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are
not drawn out of context:
1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not
When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a
limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour
knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the
son, but the Father." Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows all.
His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own
admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear
proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not
God.
2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not
While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the
power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said,
"Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but
what he seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he said, "I can
of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is
just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father
which hath sent me." St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful,
He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his
own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus
is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.
3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.
God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call
upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one
whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend unto
my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. John
20:17. He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My
God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God,
then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken
me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's
prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of
Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup
pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." Matt
26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own
admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed
to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.
4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood
While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that
this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at
any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any
time nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John
4:24. "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in
spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or
heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is
clear proof that Jesus was not God.
5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus
acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from
his own.
Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not
equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth
of Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, "My Father is greater
than I." When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17,
Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but
one, that is God..." Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions
between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from
God, neither came I of myself but He sent me." St. John 8:42. Jesus
gave clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his
equality with God,when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine
be done" and in St. John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will
of the Father which hath sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did
not come into the world on his own initiative but was directed to do
so, that he would acknowledge another being as greater than himself,
and that he would negate his own will in deference to affirming the
will of another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One
and therefore Jesus is not God.
Conclusion
The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge
about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is
not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what
basis have you come to believe otherwise?
My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity
is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as
presented in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.
If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to
Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.
What is the word of God about Jesus:
A. Regarding Sonship of Jesus:
That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they
are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to
Him! When He decrees a thing he but says to it "Be", and it is.
(Qur'an 19:34,35).
And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You
have indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh rent
of it and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall
down crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful a son;
and it behoves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is there in
the heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a servant
(Qur'an 19:88-93).
Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He
created him of dust, then said He unto him, "Be", and he was. (Qur'an
3:59).
People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say
not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only
the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a
spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers. and say not,
'Three', Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be
on Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs that which is in
the heavens and on the earth, God suffices for a guardian. (Qur'an
4:171)
B. Regarding Jesus being God:
And when God said. 'O Jesus son of Mary,did you say unto men, "Take me
and my mother as gods, apart from God?" He Said, 'To You be Glory! It
is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, You
knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not know what is
within Your soul; You know the things unseen. I only said to them what
You did command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a
witness over them, while I remained among them; but when You did take
me to Yourself the Watcher over them; You are the witness of
everything. (Quran 5:116,117)
C. Regarding Crucifiction of Jesus:
And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty
calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of
Mary, the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither
crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who
are at variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him, they
have no knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they
did not slay him of certainty... no indeed, God raised him up to Him;
God is Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of the Book
but will assuredly believe in him before his death, and on the
Resurrection Day he will be a witness against them. (Qur'an 4:156-159)

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http://www.al-sunnah.com/
http://sultan.org/

 Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God
Miiiii, che PALLEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!! L'equazione è semplice: Dio non esiste e
Gesù è un clamoroso falso storico utile soltanto a chi afferma di
governare a nome suo e di suo padre (vedi il cane bianco con la papalina).
STOP!
Ciao
SilverSurfer

 SilverSurfer
-- 
Elminster2001
deve avere origine naturale
      \
    che questi due asini siano
     mandati a macinare il grano!
     Frater Perdurabo
      /
deve avere origine soprannaturale

 se non sei in grado di provarlo
Provami tu che esiste.Se non sei in grado di provarlo bla bla... 

 Provami tu che esiste.Se non sei in grado di provarlo bla bla...
Esiste, esiste...e il suo nome è Silvio !

Sembra che Lela abbia detto :

ma io _sto_ esprimendo un'opinione! non pretendo di possedere la 
verita', come tanti altri fanno...
-- 
Elminster2001
e cantavamo una canzone,
la cantavamo tutti insieme,
ma passa il tempo, brucia il sole
chi le ricorda piu' le parole?
R. Vecchioni - fratelli?

 verita', come tanti altri fanno...
Io non posseggo la verità. Ho semplicemente detto che dio non esiste. E' 
talmente palese che non credo valga neppure la pena discuterne. Per curiosità, 
vorresti anche che qualcuno ti provasse la non esistenza di Babbo Natale per 
convincerti che non si tratta di un personaggio reale? Se vogliamo trattare la 
cosa dal punto scientifico posso ammettere che non è possibile negarne 
l'esistenza, ma è comunque lecito affermare che la probabilità che esista è 
infinitamente minore della possibilità che domani il sole non sorga. 
Poi fino a prova contraria l'onere della prova tocca a chi afferma l'esistenza 
di una cosa, non a chi afferma che non esiste. Anche perchè di questo passo 
finisce che chiunque può arrogarsi il diritto di spacciare per verità qualsiasi 
stronzata non dimostrabile. Ad esempio: 'dio è donna e le piace scopare'. 
Adesso provami che non è vero!
Ciao
SilverSurfer


perche' dovrei? se cosi' credi, cosi' e' per te...
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