Newsgroup: it.politica
Titolo: (lungo) - Intervista a Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Lunga, ma interessante
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,356485,00.html
Dutch member of parliament Ayaan Hirsi Ali has been threatened with
death for writing the film "Submission" -- which is heavily critical of
Islam and for which filmmaker Theo van Gogh was murdered in November.
She spoke with SPIEGEL about her life as a fugitive, how to fight
radical Islam, and the need for legitimate intolerance.
SPIEGEL: Ms. Hirsi Ali, the trial of Theo van Gogh's murderers is about
to begin. A Muslim fanatic stabbed the filmmaker to death in broad
daylight last November, because, with your collaboration, he had filmed
"Submission," a film about the suppression of Muslim women. Did you
have any idea, at the time, that this eleven-minute short film could
endanger the lives of both of you?
Hirsi Ali: I knew that there are many enemies. After all, they have
been threatening me ever since I turned away from my faith in 2002. I
warned Theo, urged him to request a bodyguard. But he defied me, saying
that he didn't want the Dutch police entering his house.
SPIEGEL: Wasn't he aware of the reactions he would trigger among
radical Muslims by portraying an abused woman in a see-through chador,
her naked body painted with verses from the Koran?
Hirsi Ali: It was, after all, his intention to be provocative. But he
underestimated the radicalism of his opponents. At the time, I had long
since been provided with bodyguards by the government. But Theo would
ride his bicycle through the city, and he continued to be listed in the
telephone book. Everyone knew where he lived. He was an easy target.
His only fear was for my safety. He kept urging me to move to the
United States and start a new life.
SPIEGEL: The murderer left behind a death threat against you, a
five-page letter stuck to Van Gogh's chest with a knife.
Hirsi Ali: I didn't find out about that until two days later. From then
on my life was turned upside down. The police moved me from place to
place, first to a navy barracks, then to a police academy, and from
there to a resting room in the offices of the minister for Europe.
SPIEGEL: What did you feel during those days?
Hirsi Ali: I felt stunned. Only now has it become clear to me how
concrete and deadly the threat is. But I also understood that this
fatwa isn't just directed against me, but against Holland, against the
entire Western world. We are all targets. In the eyes of radical
Muslims, any country in which Muslims can be criticized openly is an
enemy of Islam.
SPIEGEL: Nevertheless, you felt responsible for Van Gogh's death.
Hirsi Ali: I do have a sense of guilt, but it's mixed. Yes, I wanted to
shake things up. But if I had thought that someone would die, I
probably would not have written the screenplay for "Submission." I
tried to keep Theo's name as secret as those of the actress and the
crew, but Theo insisted on having his name on his film. For him it was
a matter of principle.
SPIEGEL: Following Van Gogh's death when you knew you were targeted,
were you able to think clearly about what you should do?
Hirsi Ali: No, I was constantly on the move. But I had had enough after
six days. I was advised to go into hiding abroad if I wanted to sleep
in one place for a longer time. The only places I would consider were
Israel and the United States, because they know what the Islamic threat
means in those countries. I decided to go to the United States.
SPIEGEL: Were you able to live openly there?
Hirsi Ali: No. Even in California I was constantly protected by
bodyguards. I wasn't allowed to go outside or to meet with anyone. On
the inside, I still felt numb.
SPIEGEL: Did you think about asking for advice from Salman Rushdie,
against whom the Iranian mullahs issued a fatwa years ago?
Hirsi Ali: Before all this happened, I wasn't in contact with Salman. I
met him for the first time at a PEN Club dinner in April of this year.
He encouraged me, implored me, to remain strong. He explained to me how
one can continue living in spite of a fatwa, and he gave me some tips.
SPIEGEL: For example?
Hirsi Ali: Moving to the United States, for example.
SPIEGEL: But you don't want to?
Hirsi Ali: We'll see. I gradually recovered after two months in
California. The legislative session was beginning in The Hague, and I
had to decide whether I wanted to return to parliament or remain in
hiding. I returned.
SPIEGEL: So now you are once again working as a member of parliament,
giving interviews and publishing. Your book "I Accuse" will appear in
Germany on Wednesday. Has your life returned to normal?
Hirsi Ali: Normal? I am guarded 24 hours a day. My bodyguards are
always with me, everywhere I go. There are two bedrooms in my
apartment, one for me, and the other for two bodyguards who take turns
sleeping. Whenever I open my door, the door to the other bedroom opens
and they check to see what's going on.
SPIEGEL: You are never alone?
Hirsi Ali: Rarely. But I don't have a healthy social life either. How
can you have a relationship when you must constantly be afraid of
putting your partner's life at risk?
SPIEGEL: Can you go to the movies, go jogging, go shopping?
Hirsi Ali: The bodyguards try to adjust to my needs. I have to give
them a copy of my schedule every morning and I'm not allowed to leave
the house until they've made their preparations. Then I'm driven to the
parliament building in an armored vehicle. When we arrive, I go through
the side entrance, which has been heavily guarded since the attack on
Theo. Incidentally, the government's ministers also stopped riding
their bikes to work after the attack. A bodyguard sits in my office,
and he waits in front of the door when I'm in meetings. Whenever I
appear at events, the local police are always put on high alert. That's
the way my life is, and I believe it will stay that way. That is, if I
even have the opportunity to have a long life.
SPIEGEL: Isn't that grotesque? You fight for the liberation of the
Muslim woman and now you yourself are guarded from morning to night.
Your chador consists of bodyguards. Was it worth it?
Hirsi Ali: Yes. Radical Islam is too dangerous for this society,
perhaps even for the entire world. It is important to fight against
this threat. In the process of fighting some lives may be lost.
SPIEGEL: Now you are beginning to sound like a martyr yourself. The
September 11 terrorists also died for an idea.
Hirsi Ali: I would like to draw a distinction there. If we all keep
still and remain silent, there will be more than just one or two
deaths. I prefer to follow the philosopher Karl Popper. He says that
freedom is not to be taken for granted. It is vulnerable. One must
fight for it and be willing to die for it. The Islamic scene is very
aggressive. Those Muslims who wish to kill someone receive a great deal
of support from their home countries. There is plenty of wealth, there
are plenty of sponsors and there are plenty of desperate people who
choose this path. We must defend ourselves if we wish to preserve our
Western values. The price we pay is to be threatened.
SPIEGEL: You seem to be resistant against the hostility. In your book,
you are unrestrained in your denunciation of Islam as backward, and you
call for policies that force immigrants to become integrated. You are
also in the process of preparing a second part of the film
"Submission." Aren't you concerned about generating even more rage
against you?
Hirsi Ali: What else can they do but issue a death threat? Now that
I've already been given the maximum sentence, at least I can act
freely.
SPIEGEL: The politics of intimidation seem to be effective with others.
The producers of the Tessin film festival didn't dare to screen
"Submission."
Hirsi Ali: I believe this will change. If Islam is to develop
peacefully, words or images will be necessary. Even radical Muslims
have had access to the Internet and satellite television for a long
time. We must have answers to this. In other words, there will be a
"Submission II," and also a "Submission III."
SPIEGEL: Not everyone in your party, the right-leaning liberal VVD, is
happy about your commitment.
Hirsi Ali: The VVD is primarily an economic party that promotes liberal
markets. Attacks on Islam are not part of the party platform. That's
why many are irritated by my work.
SPIEGEL: Why did you switch from the Labour party to the VVD in 2002?
Hirsi Ali: The Labour party and the Green party are too politically
correct for my tastes. They believe in a purely multicultural ideology.
Because of my criticism of Islam, I could have been the cause of a
split in the party, especially as many of their voters are Muslims. But
I absolutely wanted to utilize the opportunity to fight for my cause in
parliament. Politics can offer solutions for social problems, and
that's important to me.
SPIEGEL: Since the murder, you have been making appearances everywhere.
Are you satisfied with the political response to the threat posed by
religious fanatics?
Hirsi Ali: The intelligence services only became truly attentive after
the attack, and now they say they have a better handle on the movement.
They searched the apartments of presumed Islamists -- and there are
rumors of a video on which Theo's murderer, Mohammed Bouyeri, announces
the attack. He also explains that it wouldn't matter to him if he were
to die in the attempt, because he would end up in paradise.
SPIEGEL: But didn't the authorities respond to September 11?
Hirsi Ali: Yes they did. They called together the Muslim leaders, gave
them money and asked them to keep their young people under control. It
was laughable. Then they tried to force the many different groups under
one roof. That effort produced two groups, one for liberal and one for
orthodox Muslims. Their spokesmen were then expected to enforce all
agreements internally. This is simply a naive expectation.
SPIEGEL: Why? After all, Islam is a highly authoritarian religion with
strong leaders.
Hirsi Ali: Do you know what young Muslims who are drawn to radical
Islam call these "leaders" who negotiate with the government? Charity
whores. They consider them to be collaborators, traitors, idiots.
SPIEGEL: You want to see these young people be systematically
introduced to Western values. But they live in closed communities, so
how can they be reached?
Hirsi Ali: Start by knocking on the door! We must penetrate into their
worlds.
SPIEGEL: You'll be seeing many doors slammed in your face.
Hirsi Ali: I'm not saying that it would be easy. For her book entitled
"Invisible Parents," the journalist Margalith Kleijwegt did some
research in the Moroccan section of Amsterdam, where Van Gogh's
murderer, Bouyeri, lived. She knocked unsuccessfully on doors six
times. The seventh door was opened, and then she learned a great deal
about this community. For example, she learned that no parents in that
neighborhood knew about the murder, that no parents even knew who Van
Gogh was or had heard about the film. They only watch Arab television
where they are fed with conspiracy theories about the West. They spend
every vacation at home in Morocco. They can't speak or write Dutch, and
they don't read newspapers. The lesson of Margalith Kleijwegt's book is
that the parents are not equipped to give their children the upbringing
necessary in a modern western society. They also have many children and
these parallel worlds are growing. We look on without even knowing what
happens in them.
SPIEGEL: Who should go in? Social workers?
Hirsi Ali: Certainly not. They are too politically correct and in most
cases very young and inexperienced. No, there are other ways to get in.
One is the political tool of preventing further growth of the ghettos.
We need to employ a policy of integration that dictates to people where
they can live and where they cannot live, thereby guaranteeing a mixing
together of cultures and nations.
SPIEGEL: That sounds like a lot of trouble -- from the Dutch as well.
Hirsi Ali: So what? What is at issue is defending our values, and that
can certainly lead to arguments.
SPIEGEL: Aren't you concerned that tensions would arise in these forced
communities?
Hirsi Ali: The other alternative creates even greater tensions. If you
allow the ghettos to grow, you'll have clashes between skinheads and
Muslim extremists, for example. The second means of access should also
be controlled by political means: A prohibition on all faith-based
schools. Schools must be places of civilization, places that impart
Western values, the purposes of democracy. We must treat the children
as our children and not turn their education over to defenders of
foreign dogma who indoctrinate them with anti-liberal doctrines.
SPIEGEL: Ignore the cultures of the immigrants?
Hirsi Ali: Blindly respecting their cultures is the wrong approach.
Here's an example: Many children in Holland's Arab ghettos are taught
the teachings of Ibn Abu-Taymiya, one of the founders of pure Islam who
preaches the holy war as a way of life. Instead of studying European
philosophers, the children are taught to abide by 11th century
teachings!
SPIEGEL: Integration and European culture can't be imposed on people.
Hirsi Ali: But we can do something about it. This is where society
comes in. Artists, kindergartens, churches, they should all penetrate
into the ghettos. It's really grotesque: We have all kinds of NGOs that
send people all the way to Africa to convince people to use condoms.
But they don't dare touch the problems we have at home. Charity begins
at home.
SPIEGEL: Perhaps this is partly because part of democracy means
allowing people to think as they wish.
Hirsi Ali: Democracy also includes legitimate intolerance. The
intolerable cannot be tolerated. We must declare war on Islamist
propaganda. Why should we ignore that women in our midst are being
suppressed, beaten, enslaved? Why should we ignore that people preach
hatred and vow to destroy us?

enemy of Islam.
Le minacce di morte contro coloro che offendono le cose che gli
islamici considerano sacre servono di intimidazione contro gli
avversari. Servono come strumento per spaventare gli avversari, per
indurli a piegarsi alla loro prepotenza. Sevono come giustificazione
per eliminare gli avversari per loro più pericolosi.
Gli islamici radicali sono riusciti a ostacolare fortemente la
diffusione di quel filmato in tutto l'Occidente.
In Pakistan, era sufficiente per un musulmano denunciare un infedele
di sacrilegio perchè al presunto colpevole venisse requisita la casa e
tutti i suoi beni che venivano messi in vendita e normalmente
acquistati da chi lo aveva denunciato. Se il presunto colpevole
salvava la propria vita poteva considerarsi fortunato.
Labirinti
gioca...@libero.it
Remove A B C

foreign dogma who indoctrinate them with anti-liberal doctrines.
Brava Hirsi!!! E' importante proibire scuole religiose. Come dice lei,
le scuole devono essere un posto di civilizzazione, dove vengono
insegnati i valori occidentali. Le scuole non devono essere luoghi di
indottrinamento. E' ora che ci svegliamo anche in Italia.


 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:bm73a1prum3qspdds...@4ax.com...

Quoto. noto con piacere in certa sinistra il coraggio di posizioni laiche e
anticlericali, purtroppo lo stesso non si può dire lo stesso quando gli
oscurantisti si chiamano Hezbollah, Hamas e compagnia bella, anzi vengono a
volte osannati come forze anti-imperialiste, anti-sioniste o anti-americane,
e rispettate nel nome di un mal compreso relativismo culturale.