Newsgroup: it.arti.musica.classica
Titolo: La decima di Beethoven.

So che esiste una decima sinfonia di Beethoven,pare in due soli 
movimenti,incompiuta.Sapete dirmi se vi � qualche incisione in 
circolazione?Ho trovato qualcosa su youtube,ma � abominevole perch� in 
formato MIDI che � il peggiore per ascoltare musica(soprattutto la 
classica). 

 circolazione?
Mi sembra in mi- esiste un solo tempo e in aggiunta una spiegazione a voce
(in inglese).

 (in inglese).
[
WORLD PREMIERE
LUDWIG VAN BEETHOVEN (1770-1827) :  SYMPHONY NO. 10 IN E FLAT – First
movement, realized and completed by Dr. Barry Cooper
Ever since 1844, when Beethoven’s one-time secretary Anton Schindler
published an article claim­ing that Beethoven had made sketches for an
un­finished Tenth Symphony, the subject has attracted widespread interest
and speculation. Since that date, additional clues about the supposed
symphony have emerged from time to time, but many of them only added to the
mystery and speculation, almost like a real-life detective story: Schindler
was found to have been an extremely unreliable witness; Karl Holz, another
man who had acted as Beethoven’s secre­tary, claimed to have heard the
first movement of the symphony played by Beethoven on the piano, yet in
another report he is said to have stated that the whole symphony was
sketched; a letter from Bee­thoven himself was discovered, written by
Schindler but signed by Beethoven only eight days before his death,
referring to sketches for a new symphony; meanwhile Gustav Nottebohm, a
leading Beethoven scholar of the late 19th century, examined the sketches
that Schindler had claimed were for the Tenth Symphony and dismissed them
as mere passing thoughts, of no more significance than dozens of other such
‘symphonies’ whose openings had been jotted down by Beethoven at various
stages of his life.
Compounding the mystery was the impenetrable nature of Beethoven’s sketches
in general — mostly single-line drafts without clef or key signature,
carelessly notated in bad handwriting that was widely regarded as
indecipherable, and even if deciphered, difficult to interpret. Their large
number added to the problem. Altogether about 8,000 pages or more survive,
now scattered in dozens of different loca­tions, and many of them contain
sketches for more than one work. In fact, until the 1960s, very few
scholars apart from Nottebohm had studied Beetho­ven’s sketches first-hand,
most being content to rely on the relatively small proportion of sketch
material that Nottebohm had transcribed.
From the early 1960s, however, investigation of Beethoven’s sketches became
much more system­atic, and before long all of them had been examined at
least cursorily and dated approximately. But there was still no further
sign of the elusive symphony, and in an important article published in 1977
(‘Noch einmal: Wo sind Beethoven’s Skizzen zur Zehnten Symphonie?,’
Beethoven-Jahrbuch, ix.531-552) Robert Winter showed that there were no
major gaps to be accounted for in Beethoven’s creative activity in the
period after the Ninth Symphony. It followed, then, that there could be no
large missing sketchbook from that period, that might contain the symphony
and which might one day turn up. Was Beethoven’s reference to sketches in
his desk therefore mere wishful thinking or even plain deception? The
answer came at last in two articles published within a few months of each
other: Sieghard Brandenburg, ‘Die Skizzen zur Neunten Symphonie,’ Zu
Beethoven 2, ed. Harry Goldschmidt (Berlin, 1984) pp. 88-129; and Barry
Cooper, ‘Newly Identified Sketches for Bee­thoven’s Tenth Symphony,’ Music
& Letters, 66 (1985), pp. 9-18. The former referred to three groups of
sketches for the Tenth Symphony dating from 1822 to 1824; the latter
article identified a group of Tenth Symphony sketches from 1825. In neither
case had the author been specifically searching for the Tenth Symphony.
Sieghard Brandenburg evidently made his discoveries during the course of
research on the Ninth Symphony; my own identifications were made during
work on a book on Beethoven’s sketches (Beethoven and the Creative Process,
Oxford Univer­sity Press, forthcoming).
My work on this book involved studying numerous sketches for other
Beethoven works and as a result, I obtained considerable insights into his
normal work­ing methods. With the aid of this background work I was able to
make sense of the sketches for the Tenth Symphony and eventually produce a
complete move­ment, based on realizing these sketches in the same way as
Beethoven normally realized others, and filling in the missing passages
with music based on the same thematic material. Details of how the complete
movement was gradually put together from the very fragmentary sketches are
given in the lecture in the accompanying recording. Further details can
also be found in my article ‘The First Movement of Beetho­ven’s Tenth
Symphony: A Realization’, The Beethoven
Newsletter, 3/2 (1988), pp. 25-31, and in the orches­tral score which is
available on hire from Universal Edition (London). The piece itself is, of
course, not a new Beethoven symphony as such, but a kind of ‘artist’s
impression’ of the First Movement. It is probably fairly close to what he
had in mind, and is certainly far closer to the elusive Tenth Symphony than
anything previously heard.
The sketch sources used are as follows:
Bonn, Beethoven-Archiv, SBH 645 (= Mh 86), f. I (1812).
Berlin, Staatsbibliothek Preussischer Kulturbesitz, Musikabteilung, Artaria
201, pp. 124-5 (1822).
Bonn, Beethoven-Archiv, SBH 673 (= BSk 20), ff. Ir, 2v (1822).
Vienna, Gesellschaft der Musikfreunde, A50, p. 12 (1824).
Berlin, Staatsbibliothek Preussischer Kulturbesitz, Musikabteilung, aut.
9/1, ff. Iv-5r (1825).
I should like to thank the staff of each of the three archives concerned,
for kindly allowing me access to the Beethoven manuscripts in their
possession.
Dr. Barry Cooper
]

 in general - mostly single-line drafts without clef or key signature,


 Non l'aveva scritta anche Brahms la 10 di Beethoven? COn la sua prima...
Certo, piu' difficile e sapere chi ha scritto la 14.

 wrote:

Leggo questo post con moltissimo ritardo. L'hai poi trovata?
Cesare
-- 
Do I contradict myself?
Very well, then, I contradict myself;
(I am large-I contain multitudes.)
-- Walt Whitman, "Leaves of Grass"

 
So che era stata anche pubblicata su disco. Ma all'epoca si trattava di 
un solo movimento. Se i musicologi sono riusciti ad inventarsene anche 
un secondo con un poco di pazienza riusciremo prossimamente ad averla 
completa. Io preferisco pensare con Wagner che dopo la IX sia 
impensabile scrivere un'altra sinfonia beethoveniana, quindi mi piace 
immaginare che Beethoven, se avesse deciso di scrivere qualcos'altro per 
l'orchestra, si sarebbe inventato qualche altro genere sinfonico.
-- 
Giuseppe Sottotetti
gso...@alice.it
 
http://SottotettiGiuseppe.ilcannocchiale.it/

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:4b446d4d$0$815$4faf...@reader5.news.tin.it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTD-MdT9RRw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K21tODUlwoc&feature=related
 

Per la Decima di LvB io ho una edizione di IMP Classics (Pickwick)  con la 
London Symphony Orchestra diretta da Wyn Morris. Il Movimento dura 20 minuti 
e... non sa poi di molto... Il CD � del 1988.
Buona anno. 

 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K21tODUlwoc&feature=related
-- 
questo articolo e` stato inviato via web dal servizio gratuito 
http://www.newsland.it/news
 segnala gli abusi ad 
ab...@newsland.it

 Buona anno.
Lo ho anch'io.  Lascia sostanzialmente il tempo che trova.
 Antero Petomainen


wrote:

Concordo. E poi gli inglesi non sanno scrivere musica da almeno 300
anni. :-)
Ciao
Mario