Newsgroup: it.arti.musica.classica
Titolo: Respighi & Busoni in Italy

      To music-lovers and connoisseurs,
      Help!  I am doing research about classical music in Italy. This year
I went to the Spoleto festival and also concerts throughout Italy. I
really enjoyed it all.
      There is one thing that is a mystery to me. It is a puzzle. The
music of the modern (20th century, earlier than Berio or Nono) Italian
composers Respighi and Busoni is never played in Italy. Can you tell me
why. What is the reason? How are these composers thought of in Italy?
Respighi is very popular in England - at concerts and on BBC Radio 3;
Busoni is highly regarded and was a feature at this year's Aldeburgh
festival.
      Help, please. 
 
Many thanks, Nick Kenyon. 
[message on behalf of Nick Kenyon]
-- 
Regards Bob,
Bob Kenyon
email: 
b...@raspbrry.demon.co.uk
To er is human, to moo bovine.

 festival.
Yes, but even Berio is somehow more popular amongst english audiences 
than amongst italian ones.  That's because many english concert-goers actually
try to know what stuff they are listening at, and have onthe average a much
better musical culture than italian concert-goers.
Roberto
-- 
/_/  Roberto Maria Avanzi Mocenigo  <><
_/  Institut für Experimentelle Mathematik / Universität Essen
/  finger 
de...@zoy.org

 why. What is the reason? 
There are, in my opinion, only two reasons.
Busoni, he's a "german" composer, and more modern than Wagner or Strauss,
so it's TOO complicated for the cloth-eared nincompoops that go under the
name of "melomani".
Respighi, he was a "fascist".  Nobody should play fascist music in Italy.
I do not understand why, then, the author of the "Olympische Hymne" is
accepted, but who knows human nature.  I even know some artists that
really hate his music as it is, without political prejudices But,
these are more the exceptions (and I know at least one) that the rule...
For example, most teachers here just say  "Yes, but Respighi does _not_
sound _sincere_... it's all bombastic without a reason... or _just_
transcriptions... the music sounds as coming from a reproduction, a
picture... it's a false thing".  
I, for one, adore Busoni, and like Respighi less, but still very much.
(I think the first one is a genius of imperscrutable greatness, the
second one "just" a good composer.)


 why.
Nick, I try to give you an answer.
Most composers living in the first half of the XX Century adhered to 
fascism, so, it is not "politically correct" to play them in Italy. 
Respighi fully adhered to fascism, as did Casella and Pizzetti. You may 
object that Malipiero and Castelnuovo-Tedesco were not fascists, and 
their music is not performed anyway, while the fascist Mascagni is one 
of our preferred. This leds to the following points.
Opera seems to be the only classic music accepted in Italy. More than 
half of money the government pays for classic music goes to opera--and 
to easy-to-understand operas. Thus, you can't get rid of all fascist 
composers. You _need_ them. At the same time, you can trash away 
Respighi wonderful opera works, because they are not "popular" enough, 
and they are too complex to play and listen to (for the average Italian 
opera listener). 
Add to this that our orchestras can hardly afford to play complex works 
like "Pini di Roma". I could listen Respighi classics with the S.Cecilia 
orchestra, led by Daniele Gatti, and it was way inferior to the same 
program performed by the same conductor with a different orchestra 
(sorry, I can't remember if it was the Concertgebow or a different one).
Don't forget symphonic music is not an Italian way of thinking music. 
Respighi studied in Russia, and was mostly performed abroad. Busoni was 
not Italian, but German, and had very little relations with Italy. 
Busoni is still considered a "contemporary" composer, here, as are 
Debussy, Scriabine, Stravinskij, Schoenberg. (Ok--and I heard, at a 
concert, someone calling Moussorjskij a "contemporary composer"...)
I wonder you couldn't be aware of this musical poverty, when you 
travelled across Italy. Our average listener of classic music demands 
for the same aria, he/she can sing along with the singer. Respighi and 
Busoni demand for a strong attention to details, and you can hardly 
whistle "Feste Romane" when shaving on the morning...
Cheers,
Paolo
-- 
Paolo Tramannoni
Porto Recanati, Italy
p.t...@fastnet.it

 wrote:
:       There is one thing that is a mystery to me. It is a puzzle. The
: music of the modern (20th century, earlier than Berio or Nono) Italian
: composers Respighi and Busoni is never played in Italy. Can you tell me
: why. What is the reason? 
Have you thought of the obvious one?
: Respighi is very popular in England - at concerts and on BBC Radio 3;
: Busoni is highly regarded and was a feature at this year's Aldeburgh
: festival.
Any nation that thinks that Kidney Pie is the height of cuisine cannot
possibly be accused of having good taste.
-----
Richard Schultz                              
sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"What I do object to is uninformed malicious pandering to low level 
uncouthness, even if it comes from the holiest of lands, Israel!"
	-- Kenneth Lane, Wagnerian Romantischer Heldenspammer

 possibly be accused of having good taste.
LOL...that's a shrewd thrust....
But unfortunately, even nations that perform "haute cuisine" and produce
superior wines have a disgraceful musical taste....
ciao
Alessandra

 Many thanks, Nick Kenyon.
Busoni wasn't Italian.
-- 
Peter T. Daniels     
gram...@worldnet.att.net

 possibly be accused of having good taste.
Rich,
Please let me disagree. While Respighi wrote a lot of mediocre music 
(however, very skilled music), he also wrote true masterworks ("La 
fiaccola" is just one of the best). And I found every note written by 
Busoni worth to be called true masterworks.
paolo


 superior wines have a disgraceful musical taste....
Ale,
You are for sure thinking to Massenet, isn't it? :-)


 possibly be accused of having good taste.
Well, it's even the nation where pizzas are dressed with cheddar cheese,
but, again, it's not music.   It's true, however, that's there's no
english translation of "Buon Appetito", and for a reason.  The americans
invented "Enjoy your meal", thus displaying remarkable sarcasm.


 wrote:
:> :       There is one thing that is a mystery to me. It is a puzzle. The
:> : music of the modern (20th century, earlier than Berio or Nono) Italian
:> : composers Respighi and Busoni is never played in Italy. Can you tell me
:> : why. What is the reason?
:> Have you thought of the obvious one?
: Sometimes the obvious answer is the wrong one.
No, but it's always a good place to start.
:> Any nation that thinks that Kidney Pie is the height of cuisine cannot
:> possibly be accused of having good taste.
: Well, it's even the nation where pizzas are dressed with cheddar cheese,
: but, again, it's not music.   It's true, however, that's there's no
: english translation of "Buon Appetito", and for a reason.  The americans
: invented "Enjoy your meal", thus displaying remarkable sarcasm.
I know what you mean.  You can imagine my disappointment when I discovered
that the national food of Israel is no longer falafel, but Really Bad
Pizza, in a lame attempt to emulate the worst of what America has to offer.
-----
Richard Schultz                              
sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Maybe we need to stop thinking of this as a Mideast crisis and just think
of it as Mideast culture."
				-- quoted in _The Onion_, 18 Oct 2000

 Pizza, in a lame attempt to emulate the worst of what America has to offer.
That hurts.  I am a falafel fan.


That hurts.  I am a falafel fan.
Me too.
-- 
Matthew B. Tepper:  WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- 
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"Compassionate Conservatism?" * "Tight Slacks?" * "Jumbo Shrimp?"

Busoni wasn't Italian.
He had Italian father and German mother, and was born in Empoli, near
Florence. 
LBignami
"Se qualcuno vuole dirmi qualcosa me la deve dire 
in modo chiaro e semplice, perché di problemi me 
ne pongo a sufficienza da me" (Goethe)

That hurts.  I am a falafel fan.
And what about Kebab? Here in Zürich you can find it everywhere.


 That hurts.  I am a falafel fan.
I agree, for once ;-)
Alessandra

 Busoni wasn't Italian.
You're wrong....he was.
Half, admittedly, but still....
Alessandra

 You are for sure thinking to Massenet, isn't it? :-)
Boy, how mean you are!!!!!!
BTW, I was surely thinking of Italians, too.
Where does the best food comes, in your opinion?
Not the best wines, I agree....but we still can discuss on that!
ciao
Alessandra

Florence. 
And he read his Dante in the original Italian.
But temperamentally he was German, which explains why he lived in Berlin 
and wrote all of his operas in German -- even _Arlecchino_ (which, to be 
fair, has a good amount of Italian and Latin thrown in).
-- 
Matthew B. Tepper:  WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- 
http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- 
http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm


 schreef in berichtnieuws
7vGH5.49862$Nz.14...@news.infostrada.it...

The average restaurant in Italy is much better than in France (except in the
big cities), and the best Italian food is a subtle as the French haute
cuisine, but has much more variety and orginality. What's more, the best
Italian wines are quite capable of holding their one with the best French
wines.
On the other hand, I prefer Werther to any opera of Puccini...
Benjo Maso
Benjo Maso


I was with you to the very last line ... plus, French cuisine was
invented by imported Italian chefs.
But Werther?? The late Carol Fox used to program as many as two French
operas in every Lyric Opera of Chicago season of 7 or 8 productions. I
sat through far more Massenet than anyone ought to be subjected to ...


 why. What is the reason? How are these composers thought of in Italy?
I join with the many who insist Busoni is a German composer.
What about Malipiero, Pizzetti and Dallapiccola? Are they equally neglected
in Italy? Are then also considered fascist?
mdl

 On the other hand, I prefer Werther to any opera of Puccini...
:-((
(I can say no more, you really killed me!)
Alessandra

 why. What is the reason? How are these composers thought of in Italy?
Riccardo Muti just played (18/10, yesterday) Respighi in La Scala for Queen
Elisabeth of England visiting Milan.
Stefano Torelli

 sat through far more Massenet than anyone ought to be subjected to ...
Massenet's oeuvre is as uneven as the annual crop in the Chianti region. But
Werther is as good as a Riserva Vigna Rancia.
Benjo Maso

 in Italy? Are then also considered fascist?
If I remember correctly, Pizzetti - now almost forgotten - had a much
more deadly fame: he was considered a "iettatore" (unlucky person).
--------------------------------------------------------
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy        e-mail: 
ll...@dada.it
   Home page: 
http://www.angelfire.com/ar/archivarius
                   (musicologia pratica)

 wines.
Well, there is a black legend that some of Italy stronger unbranded
wines get mixed in French wines to keep 'em up a bit...


 And what about Kebab? Here in Zürich you can find it everywhere.
I am *also* a Kebab lover.  In Germany an average portion
costs 6 DM... I've been in Basel and there the same amount
of Kebab costs 9 CHF (almost twice as much as in Germany)...
and in Zürich?


 You got somethin' against maple syrup?
Nothing.  Just try and mix all those things together
AND swallow them...


 fair, has a good amount of Italian and Latin thrown in).
From a cultural point of view he was as German as he was Italian,
maybe a little more German, I would say.  And he spoke German as
your average italian emigrant could never dream of.
I will never, ever, be able to construct such perverse sentences
like "Und nun gehe ich in Essen, unter Essen, zum Essen".


 wrote:
->I was with you to the very last line ... plus, French cuisine was
->invented by imported Italian chefs.
well, you are right but - I hate to say it - the classical neapolitan
cuisine relies on the french one, not to tell that most of Piedmont
cuisine - one of the main root of italian one - is inextricably bound to
french one... it's a vicious circle, you can't get rid of that.
Sorry for the OT, but that *is* music for my ears :-)))
Giorgio

like "Und nun gehe ich in Essen, unter Essen, zum Essen".
Und, zum verdauen, würd' ich dir Darm-stadt empfehlen. ;-)


and in Zürich?
CHF 7.50. 


 Queen Elisabeth of England visiting Milan.
Yes: but there was an English woman attending the concert!


 Yes: but there was an English woman attending the concert!
BTW, she ate a kidney pie just before the concert! :-)
Alessandra

 BTW, she ate a kidney pie just before the concert! :-)
With maple syrup?
p.


 french one... it's a vicious circle, you can't get rid of that.
To stay on music people... Rossini cookbook was almost all inspired to 
French receips. The same Artusi is clearly trained to French cuisine.
And a lot of traditional dishes of my region (the same of Rossini) have 
some duty to the French cuisine.
paolo


more deadly fame: he was considered a "iettatore" (unlucky person).
In what way?
-- 
Matthew B. Tepper:  WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- 
http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- 
http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html


 Giorgio
Eccellentissimo Abate,
Che piacere leggere nuovamente i suoi scritti, ponderati e poliglotti,
sul gruppo da lunga pezza da lei snobbato.
Sic stantibus rebus, decidiamo, dal nostro esilio americano che ci ha
obbligato anche a cambiare nome, di rimuovere la scomunica a lei nota e
di reintegrarla, toto corde, nella sua reverendissima carica !
Pax tibi
Gialomi ex NYC
Sent via Deja.com 
http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 In what way?
A "iettatore" is a person that brings bad luck to other people.


A "iettatore" is a person that brings bad luck to other people.
Oh, you mean a schlemiel!  (A schlemiel's usual victim is a schlimazl.)
-- 
Matthew B. Tepper:  WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- 
http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- 
http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm


 In what way?
The existence of "iettatori" is a popular Neapolitan belief, and it is
quite widespread in the Italian showbiz.
A iettatore is a usually decent and respectable person that is believed
to bring extreme unluck to all people living in his/her surroundings.
For example, the last time a iettatore came to work in my theatre for a
couple of weeks, we suffered a violinist breaking his arm, a repetiteur
crashing his elbow, another violinist accidentaly hitting with her
bycicle a drunken whore and being arrested, a tree falling in the
courtyard and an unspecified number of car and moped motors failing.
Please note that according to the true tradition, a iettatore is not
unlucky regarding to himself/herself, only regarding his/her neighbours.
I remember being told that Pizzetti was believed to be a iettatore, but
the status bears such a social stigma that it is quite difficult to
raise the question - the less you talk about iettatori the better, as
you risk evoking their obscure powers. And, of course, this is not an
issue usually discussed in musicological essays.  :-)


 bycicle a drunken whore and being arrested
When filming "my" first movie, each time a jettatore came on the set, 
all 2,000W lamps used to broke...
A nice tale about jettatori is Pirandello's "La patente" ("The licence").


 quite widespread in the Italian showbiz.
There's an hysterical French movie called "La Chèvre" (with Pierre
Richard and Gérard Depardieu).  The hero can safely be described as the
*ultimate* iettatore :-)
Is this movie known outside of France ?
-- 
Benji di Parigi

 schreef in berichtnieuws
1eitpgj.13b50nw1rl44gsN%wo...@noos.fr...

Yes, it is. They even made an American version of it called "Pure Luck" with
Martin Short and Danny Glover.
Benjo Maso

 Oh, you mean a schlemiel!  (A schlemiel's usual victim is a schlimazl.)
not quite a schlemiel...usually it is not known to everybody one is a
"iettatore". Besides, sometimes they won't even be named...(bad luck....you
never know....)
Alessandra


 Is this movie known outside of France ?
La Chèvre is an hilarious film!
But there is a subtle difference between the hero (Richard) and a real
"iettatore".
The latter usually is more difficult to find out....he usually isn't funny
or "étourdi", but looks rather normal...that makes it hard to detect him,
unless someone else tells you about his....major flaw!
ciao
Alessandra

these are more the exceptions (and I know at least one)
?
;-)
Tito

not Italian, but German, and had very little relations with Italy. 
well, Roberto wrote the same, but I cannot agree to this point just
proposed like this. I think we can agree saying that talian public
think of him as of a german composer, but this is not correct at all.
Busoni is not only a composer who was born in Italy, but also an
artist in whose personality the intalian culture (in general) plays a
quite important role, and in a very genuine form, as could not happen
to any german composer. the fact that he was able to connect this with
some other (very important) cultural influences should not lead us to
forget this fact...
Tito

Me too.
me too!!!
Tito

Busoni wasn't Italian.
this is going to become a legend.
Busoni was Born in Empoli. not even in Trieste or Bolzano!
Tito

your average italian emigrant could never dream of.
of course!!!
Tito

Are then also considered fascist?
I don't know any other composer, in Italy (at their epoche) less
fascist then Malipiero and Dallapiccola
Tito

 To er is human, to moo bovine.

 wrote in message
news:am53vsoph2j35ejq1...@4ax.com...

Well, he was born there quite by chance. His permanently travelling parents
sent him to Trieste when he was only 11 months old (!), so he can hardly be
called a tuscany. And Trieste at that time (and quite today too) was much
more an austrian than an italian city. I agree with the opinion that Busoni
was more german than italian.
Pino
----------------------------------------------------------------
"Nur der blickt heiter, der nach vorwärts schaut"
                       (Ferruccio Busoni, Doktor Faust)
Giuseppe Mariotti
1010 Wien - Austria
http://www.mariotti.at

first half of the century, Egon Petri, playing many of his works.
Petri was Dutch.
-- 
Matthew B. Tepper:  WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- 
http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- 
http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html


 whistle "Feste Romane" when shaving on the morning...
Sincerely, this looks a bit an exercise in self deprecation (an attitude
quite common in Italy).
Of course half the money goes for opera. Setting up an opera is ten
times as expensive as setting up an orchestra or chamber concert of
comparable level. The money is barely enough to keep opera alive. 
The inferiority of Italian orchestra could be debated. While it is true
that most orchestras were mismanaged, especially in the seventies and
the eighties, so most of the people grew up listening bad orchestras, it
looks like the best Italian orchestras now can be compared with
corrispondent foreign ones. And outside Italy there are also bad
orchestras; you simply never get to hear them, so it sounds to you that
all the bas ones are in Italy.
Even if Italian prefer opera to symphonic music, this doesn't mean
orchestras are damned to shoddy playing. Any Rossini ouverture may be
devilishy difficult. And any conductor will tell you how much easier is
to conduct La Boheme with an Italian orchestra - who will effortlessy
follow the singers - instead of a German orchestra who simply plays with
the down beat without understanding the words.
If Respighi isn't performed an appreciated so much, it is probably
because people like Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Strawinsky - just to name
the first coming to my mind - have written more interesting orchestral
works that symphonic fans like more and so are more frequently
performed. And frankly, I would gladly listen a piano recital with a
Ravel-only or Prokofiev-only or Shostakovic-only program, but a
Busoni-only program would be trying at least...


 escribió en el mensaje
news:9fjI5.5803$1S5.5...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...


 wrote:
:> > : 
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
 wrote:
:> as "la primavera", are marred by horrible
: sugar-and-honey-and-maple-sirup-a
 
: You got somethin' against maple syrup?
 
:> That hurts.  I am a falafel fan.
 
: I agree, for once ;-)
 
I've never tried falafel with maple syrup, but now that you mention it,
it could become the new fad food item for the 21st century.  Heck, if
people eat corn fritters with maple syrup, why not "chickpea fritters"?
-----
Richard Schultz                              
sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"What I do object to is uninformed malicious pandering to low level 
uncouthness, even if it comes from the holiest of lands, Israel!"
	-- Kenneth Lane, Wagnerian Romantischer Heldenspammer

 wrote:
:> Riccardo Muti just played (18/10, yesterday) Respighi in La Scala for 
:> Queen Elisabeth of England visiting Milan.
: Yes: but there was an English woman attending the concert!
More importantly, did they have falafel for dinner?
-----
Richard Schultz                              
sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
 "You go on playing Bach your way, and I'll go on playing him *his* way."
					-- Wanda Landowska

 wrote:
: another violinist accidentaly hitting with her
: bycicle a drunken whore and being arrested. . .
Just in case anyone was wondering why Italians have an international
reputation as a fun-loving bunch of guys. . .


 wrote:
 
: There's an hysterical French movie called "La Chèvre" (with Pierre
: Richard and Gérard Depardieu).  The hero can safely be described as the
: *ultimate* iettatore :-)
: Is this movie known outside of France ?
 
I saw it in California.  There was a really bad remake made in the U.S.,
starring (IIRC) Martin Short.
-----
Richard Schultz                              
sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Maybe we need to stop thinking of this as a Mideast crisis and just think
of it as Mideast culture."
				-- quoted in _The Onion_, 18 Oct 2000

 Oh, you mean a schlemiel!  (A schlemiel's usual victim is a schlimazl.)
At least there's a nebbish who repairs the schlimazl's glasses.
Nobody could help Pizzetti's victims (at least, this is the legend).
Apparently he would simply _influence_ other people's lives, but
some contended he acted purposefully with chutzpah, performing
arcane rites at home.
Roberto, a true italian mensch living in germany, who misses his vaybl...
 PS:  Just a minute now! Everyone knows that 'skank' is the past tense of 'skunk'
      (which is the simple past of 'skink'), just as 'wank' the the past tense of,
      er, .. Well anyway, [[ adapted from alt.religion.scientology ]]
-- 
/_/  Roberto Maria Avanzi Mocenigo  <><
_/  Institut für Experimentelle Mathematik / Universität Essen
/  
http://www.shmaltz.com/
 <:-ţ»

 Apparently he would simply _influence_ other people's lives
AHHHHH I now understand the lack of memory in Toscanini's last concert, 't was a
delayed effect of Pizzetti's _influence_ on the conductor that gave him more than
simply encouragements....
Pizzetti suffered the same fame as Offenbach. Note: following the suggestion of G.
Rossini, I'm typing using only the index and the little finger ......:-))
Ezio

 forget this fact...
Yes, but the audiences _tend_ to forget this.  and think of him as a
"german" (that's why I wrote quotation marks around german in my post)
even though bodoby can actually say this.
His operatic output is relatively small, and he wrote a lot of piano music,
with many german titles and a lot of counterpoint, which are all things which
do not help... (italian audiences are refractory to depth).  It's a pity he's
almost forgotten here, as he's for sure one of the most interesting italian
composers living at the time (IMNSHO at least, FWIW).
Roberto
-- 
/_/  Roberto Maria Avanzi Mocenigo  <><
_/  Institut für Experimentelle Mathematik / Universität Essen
/  finger 
de...@zoy.org

 Respighi studied in Russia, 
Questo e' un po' un luogo comune. Respighi frequento' la scuola di
Rimskij Korsakov per un periodo molto breve, (mi pare si tratti di
qualche mese al massimo) anche se cio' che apprese  in merito alla
orchestrazione fu per lui fondamentale.
Ciao
Rudy
===============================================
If the doors of perception were cleansed every 
thing would appear  to man as it is: infinite.
William Blake
===============================================

 

Do you also think that the American Gian-Carlo Menotti is an Italian
composer? or the American Edgard Varèse is a French one?
Contrast the American composer Kurt Weill. Earlier, he had been a German
composer, and his style changed considerably when he emigrated.
-- 
Peter T. Daniels     
gram...@worldnet.att.net

 Und, zum verdauen, würd' ich dir Darm-stadt empfehlen. ;-)
Weiss Du was passiert in der Darmstädter Innenstadt, wenn
es viel Stau gibt?  Nix, nur ein langsamer Darm-verkehr.


Wasn't Mario Praz considered a famous iettatore?
Palamede
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Before you buy.

 composer, and his style changed considerably when he emigrated.
Even Varese changed quite a bit...
The case Busoni is still open, I think.  I believe that no german composer
could have written his Arlecchino, and even his attitude towards Bach when
he was writing transcriptions seems to me not german (in a sense, adhered to
the original text much more than Bach when he was transcribing Vivaldi... a
more "German" approach to Bach was that of Godowski's transcriptions)...


es viel Stau gibt?  Nix, nur ein langsamer Darm-verkehr.
 :-) Und was für ein Abführmittel nehmen sie in jenem Fall ein? Die
Klavierstücke von Stockhausen? ;-)
LB
"Se qualcuno vuole dirmi qualcosa me la deve dire 
in modo chiaro e semplice, perché di problemi me 
ne pongo a sufficienza da me" (Goethe)


va bene, VA BENE!!!
Domani c'ho la mia lezione di crucco con la biondona, me ne stavo
dimenticando!
Me l'avete ricordato, anzi..... sie haben mich das erinnert!!! :-)))
--
========================
Marco Marcelli - Genova
e-mail: 
marc...@libero.it
========================

 Klavierstücke von Stockhausen? ;-)
Ne, die sind das Gegenteil, wie Kohle... ein Mittel das stopft


 Klavierstücke von Stockhausen? ;-)
Ne, die sind das Gegenteil, wie Kohle... ein Mittel das stopft,
auch bekannt unter hoch Gebildeten als Astringentio.


...


almost forgotten here
lo! you're in Germany, but you write "here" and you mean Italy.
you're increasing the confusion!!!
;-))
Tito

ma un tempo non era un NG in italiano?!
vorbei! vorbei! (die Zeit vergeht...)
Tito


Right.  It's almost forgotten in Italy, but even in Germany
the memory of his has weak health... still the situation is
worse.  As it happens, when I write to IAMC, I feek in Italy
and "here" is Italy: of course I add confusion to confusion
because I write "here" even when it's Germany...



... wie die Zeit vergeht ...


 ma un tempo non era un NG in italiano?!
Jamais, monsieur, jamais. Nous n'avons pas des spaghetti, ici.
paul
-- 
Paolo Tramannoni
Porto Recanati, Italy
p.t...@fastnet.it

 and "here" is Italy:
This is remarkable.
Good!


ma un tempo non era un NG in italiano?!
Me' gavarim na vsehe iasekaha.
(la traslitterazione non è perfetta ma... vi voglio vedere... :PPPP)
ciao,
Jashugan
--
«Sopra la panca la capra crapula,
 dopo la crapula la capra crepa».
(Vinix the Gurux)

 Jamais, monsieur, jamais. Nous n'avons pas des spaghetti, ici.
Les spaghettis sont absolument bannis d'un groupe aussi à la page que
celui-ci!!!!
A.

(la traslitterazione non č perfetta ma... vi voglio vedere... :PPPP)
ehehe! alKuanto discutibile!!!
Tito

 (la traslitterazione non è perfetta ma... vi voglio vedere... :PPPP)
Jashugan-ha baka baka baaaaaka no baka de-cciu' ^__^


ehehe! alKuanto discutibile!!!
Se la ragazza (russa) di mio fratello non mi ha fatto uno scherzo
tremendo, la traduzione dovrebbe essere: «Qui si parlano tante
lingue».


lingue».
la tradizione va benissimo. è appunto la traslitterazione ad essere
inconsueta (volevo scrivere... avventurosa!)
T