Newsgroup: it.hobby.giochi.gdr.dnd
Titolo: QUARTA edizione 4th - ancora sulla differenza PC NPC

e non solo.... come conferma Sims in questo thread la cosa consente
anche di avere un NPC mago di X livello come SOLO monster ovvero in
grado di combattere contro 5 personaggi dello stesso livello X
questo e altre note sulle differenze PC/NPC qui di seguito:
http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4154519&postcount=302
Holy crap, this thread is big! I canno' possibly keep up. Or can I?
Here's trying.
Jeremy_dnd, thank you for playing the game. In fact, thank all of you
for that--no matter which edition you are playing.
Lizard, you make a lot of extrapolations and leaps from what I say. I
can address them in brief.
Nobody said PCs are so special that nobody else (NPC) compares. Nobody
said the world has only one set of hero-caliber characters. Nobody
even suggested that the world has PC-detectors. It's a shame nobody
did, because what you said about all that stuff is a hoot. Maybe
someone said you want PCs to be wuss losers, but it weren't me. (How
can you lose a wuss, I'd like to know?)
A hobgoblin commander does know his 1st-level-like power. It's a
simple attack with the weapon. Just like the lich's at-will ranged
attack.
If you read the upcoming FRCG, these things will become obvious. Heck,
once you digest the real 4e, it'll all be obvious. A whole bunch of
monsters and NPCs are superior to PCs, even of equal level.
Most NPCs aren't. But can you get the 5% data you need when you need
it, even on the fly? Yes. And your winging it is likely to be more
accurate than it was in 3e. (No, that's not a "3e bad" jab. I enjoyed
3e, and I think it's a good game. I think 4e is better, but I
digress.) You won't have to resort to fiat unless you want to do so.
You can't know if we disagree as to the nature of the real world,
because I've never stated what I personally believe about the real
world.
You're not the only one who wants history and connection. You're not
the only one who wants events going on in the background while the PCs
are bumbling about. The 4e DMG certainly supports that play style, and
thank goodness. If it didn't, it wouldn't be the game for me, even as
fun as World Famous Game Designer James Wyatt's GenCon Random Dungeon
is. (Try it at 4 AM, Mearls optional.)
I don't know how we got from what was said initially to the idea of a
"quantum world." I do know that nothing in 4e prevents a changing
world. The guidelines in the DMG encourage it.
And a whole lot of PCs are going to die ignominious deaths at low
level, without really touching the setting in any way. Any hero-
potential they had will go with them. The things PCs do still matter
most, despite mechanical differences. But once a PC is, say, 15th
level, that PC is special compared to most people. He has risen to
great heights, to sorta quote GnomeWorks.
[quote]Originally Posted by GnomeWorks
The mechanics just need to be sensical. Sure, I don't need to know
everything mechanical about every NPC ever, but I need to be able to
generate that information, and it needs to make sense and produce
results consistent with the world and its mechanics.[/quote]
The mechanics are "sensical." They're sensical enough for any NPC or
monster to be enough like the PCs for any deviation to be largely
meaningless or easily extrapolated on the fly. I've done it more than
a few times. How does what you said here fall in line with your
philosophy that rules for NPCs and PCs need to be the same? The two
don't follow, since the rules don't need to be the same to live up to
what you say here. You don't need the same building blocks, what you
really need are compatible ones. Like, you can build with all
different colors of Legos.
[quote]Originally Posted by Kamikaze Midget
I think that's where I share some sympathy with the "5th level heroes
ain't that special" camp. They're definitely being told, not for the
first time, but perhaps more loudly than before, that the way they've
been playing isn't the way that D&D should be played in the new
edition. No one's going to come to their house and make them change,
but their style goes farther against the grain. I'm wondering, as I
debate switching to 4e, if I'm in that same camp all of a sudden: do
the experts think my game should be different, too? Do they think that
taller halflings and exclusive PC-only content is going to improve my
game? [/quote]
I would say I'm too dumb to keep up with a lot of what you said, but
instead I'll blame it on English--an imprecise language only made worse
when we have to type it. And no, this isn't some sort of insult aimed
at you. Seriously, your post lost me somewhere along the way, and I
can't bring myself to believe it's because you weren't clear. It's
probably this splitting headache . . . . and my hatred for language.
That said,  you can play 4e any way you like.
You won't see a lot of wunderpriests in implied 4e story/world. You
will see some. And you'll see more in 4e campaign settings. It's just
that for every one wunderpriest, there are about 80 guys called
"priests" that can't cast divine prayer one. Those guys are great for
marriages and funerals, and some of 'em can even help you out with a
few cool rituals, but they aren't true spellcasters.
Your world can differ. I didn't use the word "may," because that would
imply I'm giving you permission. You don't need mine or anyone else's
to make your D&D, whatever the edition, any way you like it.
I hope you like it. If not, I hope you enjoy whatever else you choose
to play.
[quote]Originally Posted by VannATLC
(It beggar's my imagination to imagine somebody 3ft and 30lbs being
able to lift 250lbs. over their head) -2 wasn't even close to a big
enough penalty. [/quote]
I think halflings are like chimpanzees, and I'll keep saying so until
Andy Collins goes mad. All seriousness aside, small creatures can be
alarmingly strong.
[quote]Originally Posted by Derren
Conan and Faramir are just more experienced and stronger than most
others. But 4E PCs are mutants compared to NPCs with powers they can
never achieve.
4E PCs = The XMen of D&D. [/quote]
Oops. Sorry again, Derren. 4e NPCs can have PC powers--without using
the character creation rules in the PH. And 4e PCs are the New
Mutants, thank you.
BTW, cool movie on your shameless self-promotion. Everyone should take
a look at Derren's sig. Fun!
Now I can't blame your stance on lack of imagination. Damn!
[quote]Originally Posted by small pumpkin man
To be fair, Chriss Sims does call the PCs "extraordinary heroes of
great destiny" earlier in the thread, there may well be large
differences between them, although all I've seen so far puts the PC
class/NPC stats of 4e as merely an extention of 3.x PC class/NPC
class. [/quote]
And I regret doing so. Blown out of proportion is putting it mildly. I
hate you English (language). I hate you.
[quote]Originally Posted by med stud
now you can create a NPC that is the same level as the PCs but still
capable of taking them on five at a time. [/quote]
This. Wait till you see Jarlaxle--or Szass Tam.
[quote]Originally Posted by AllisterH
Seriously, I'm looking at the 1st level human guard (which I posted)
and I'm kind of wondering where this "brazenly" more powerful schtick
comes from (do people just generally ignore my points? Am I saying it
wrong? Do I need to use more insults?)
The 1st level guard doesn't look like that much less powerful than a
1st level human PC. The main difference is that the PC gets an ace in
the hole (the Daily) and he's got a slightly broader base of powers to
draw on.
Do people actually think that a 1st level human Fighter is going to be
taking on groups of 1st level human guards and WIN at the same time?
I'm not even sure the 1st level pre-gen fighter can even take 3 of the
guards (use a daily, use an encounter power but then she's restricted
to her own at-will)
To those worried, have you actually looked at what the monsters are
capable of? [/quote]
You're right. And the 1st-level fighter would probably lose against a
few of these guards.
[quote]Originally Posted by hong
Tell me what you think eladrin do. [/quote]
Whatever they do, they do it with style.
Final Note: I can show you how to make Jack.
__________________
Chris Sims  Designer  Wizards RPG R&D
The Chris Signal
--
Fabio

PC = PG?
NPC = PNG?
Grazie.
Boldar

 PC = PG? NPC = PNG?
Esattamente. Sono gli acronimi inglesi (Player Character e Non-Player
Character)
Parvati V
-- 
"Cosa e' celvello? Pai non ha cosa del genele" - Pai, 3x3 occhi
UnaMoleDiDadi (TreEmme Torino): 
http://umdd.altervista.org/
http://parvatiquinta.blogspot.com/