Newsgroup: it.arti.musica.classica
Titolo: Ives' Violin Sonatas

[perdonatemi l'abominevole inglese]
Recently I (as well as other acquaintances of mine) have become
curious about the Violin Sonatas of Charles E. Ives. 
I guess that we all have seen the new ECM release in the shops...
How good is it ?
From some eavesdropping I infer that there must be (much)
better alternatives and I would like to know which ones.
Being really interested in true, faithful performances 
of these works - my personal tastes tend to the mercurial
interpretation rather than to the lyrical - I am also
interested in knowing Mr. D. G. Porter's opinion.
Thanks
 Roberto
-- 
/_/  Roberto Maria Avanzi
_/  Institut für Experimentelle Mathematik / Universität Essen
/  Ellernstraße 29 /

 interested in knowing Mr. D. G. Porter's opinion.
Well not being in the black so much I don't go out and buy up every Ives 
CD I see (last time I did I was sorely disappointed with a recording of 
the "Holidays").  I have Zukofsky/Kalish and Stepner/Kirkpatrick on LP 
(if the latter is on CD I would recommend it), and Fulkerson on CD and 
another on a single CD (Bay Cities label IIRC).
BTW, only Kalish uses the piano-drumming in the 2nd (it really does work 
better on a set of drums, not piano, plus you'd need a Bosendorfer to 
play al the notes Ives wants).  There's also a part for 2 drums in the 
sketch of the 4th Sonata.  No one except me has even transribed that 
one.

play al the notes Ives wants). 
I apologize for my very poor knowledge about Charles Ives ( and not only
that...), hoping you wouldn't beat me on my fingers if I ask you the following
question:
a grand-piano has been foreseen to be used just only as a set of drums ?
I suppose some reason should be there, justifying in some way the need for a
grand-piano instead of a set of drums...
Allegri !
Claudio Chiani
clchian AT tin DOT it
=======

play al the notes Ives wants).  [snip]
Jeez, D.G., I kind of wish you hadn't said that. Do you know if Ives had a
Bosendorfer(ish) piano, actually or in mind? Or if he composed at the piano
anyway?
 I'm pretty sure I've never heard an Ives work *played* on a Bosendorfer.
Hmm...
bl

 play al the notes Ives wants).
You mean Boesendorfer with extended low range ?
Thank you
 Roberto
-- 
/_/  Roberto Maria Avanzi
_/  Institut für Experimentelle Mathematik / Universität Essen
/  Ellernstraße 29 / 45326 Essen / Germany
\   Where do you want to crash today ?  M$ Windows for Cars ad

  Roberto
Your welcome!

 bl
I've never heard the Sonata movements played with the drum parts, except 
what I made on a tape.
If anyone wants to see these parts, I have them mocked-up in score 
excerpts written out very clearely.

 =======
In many Ives pieces there are piano parts written as "piano drumming."  
This comes from Ives' boyhood habit of (due to neighbors' requests not 
to practice on the drums!) rehearsing drum parts on his piano.  He got 
to devising culster-chords to imitate the sounds of the drums and used 
them later in his music.  "General Booth," "Calcium Light Night," 
"Fourth of July," "Central Park in the Dark," Fourth Symphony/ii, and 
the extra player part for "In the Barn" have these in them.
But for "In the Barn," it really doesn't come off well if the "primary" 
piano uses these drumming clusters.  An offstage piano or better yet an 
actual multi-person drum corps works better.  Say, unison bass drum and 
a few tom-toms on the triplets, and the toms alone on the quituplets 
(with bass drum on the accents).
The middle movement of the 4th Sonata has two drum parts in the pencil 
sketch, which I took to be bass drum and tom-tom.

 Yes, going down to a low C. 
Cool.  Now I need to play one.  Maybe an acquaintance in Vienna has one,
and if he wants, I can write something for him to use those keys :-)
Cheers


 with a viola playing, where it is obvious that no viola is required.
When I reconstructed (edited, actually) the Emerson Piano Concerto, I 
looked at all the sources: Ives original score-sketch for the ending, 
the various copies (by Reis & Hanke) or the Transcriptions, Ives' 
emembed "Concord" copies, etc.  That "viola" part has a history.
In the original score-sketch, it is played by the violas, with the first 
note of each triplet also doubled by low tubular bells going down to F. 
 (It is also doubled by bassoon 1.)  Ives first added the tubular bell 
notes back in the Reis copy of the 4th Transcriptions, then, on the next 
blank page, added the complete viola part as a substitute.  When he had 
Hanke make the next copy he added the viola part as we see it is 
"Concord."
So, if you don't like the whole part, consider playing just the offbeat 
"downeats" of the viola part, and say you're playing the bell part!
BTW, the small notes in the next system are also part of this "viola" 
(actually bell) part, yet some leave out the notes in the first line but 
include the ones in the next line w/o knowing this.