Newsgroup: it.politica
Titolo: Basta ipocrisie, la UE aiuti Gheddafi

In questi giorni viene a galla tutta l'impreparazione e la pochezza politica 
della UE e degli USA rispetto a quanto sta accadendo nel mondo arabo. Fare 
finta di stare dalla parte degli insorti significa consegnare i Paesi arabi 
ad Al Quaeda ed aprire la strada ad un esodo di disperati verso le coste 
italiane ed europee. E non possiamo permettercelo.
______________________________________________________________________________________________
E' disarmate vedere con quanta indifferenza l'Europa e gli Stati Uniti hanno 
fatto finta di non conoscere Ben Ali e Mubarak abbandonandoli al loro 
destino. E' assolutamente ridicolo vedere Leaders politici europei ed 
americani, ma anche giornalisti ed intellettuali, schierarsi senza se e 
senza ma con "la gente" che insorge. Dopo essere tornati da una vacanza a 
Sharm el-Sheik o al Club Med in Tunisia. Noi non siamo mai stati ipocriti e 
non cominceremo adesso, come fanno in tanti. La verità è che i dittatori più 
o meno autoritari che hanno governato tutti i Paesi arabi negli ultimi trent'anni 
sono stati sempre molto utili all'Occidente. La Realpolitik del mondo libero 
nei confronti dei vari colonneli, generali e sovrani è servita da un lato a 
garantire una relativa Pace in Medio Oriente e la sopravvivenza stessa di 
Israele, e dall'altro a salvaguardare i nostri interessi economici. Tutti, 
senza esclusione, hanno approvato questa linea politica. Tutti, senza 
esclusione, hanno fatto grandi affari in questi Paesi.
Si chiama pragmatismo, ed a ben guardare, non è tutto questo male, a patto 
di ragionare, appunto, come degli stastisti, come dei politici e non come 
dei romantici ed idealisti utenti di facebook. Anche se chiedere questo alla 
attuale classe dirigente occidentale è abbastanza difficile. Andiamo per 
ordine.
Nel Mondo ci sono pochi Paesi realmente democratici. Gli altri si dividono 
in Paesi sulla strada della Democrazia, che noi abbiamo l'obbligo di aiutare 
e sostenere, anche turandoci il naso, e Paesi totalmente privi di libertà. E' 
stato giusto sostenere Gheddafi, Mubarak, Ben Ali? Sicuramente si. E non in 
senso assoluto, ma politico. Pragmaticamente, chi scambierebbe un Mubarak 
con un Amadinejhad o con un Saddam? E' stato anzi fondamentale togliere 
questi paesi dalla sfera di influenza del terrorismo fondamentalista e far 
si che un minimo sindacale di diritto internazionale fosse riconosciuto 
anche nei loro confini. E poi ci sono gli affari. Solo gli ipocriti fanno 
finta di non sapere che dietro il pacifismo senza se e senza ma della 
Francia ai tempi della Guerra control'Irak c'era solo un tentativo di 
salvare i lucrosi contratti appena firmati dalla Total con il regime di 
Saddam. Lo stesso hanno fatto tutti in Libia, in Egitto, in Tunisia e 
dappertutto. Adesso fare finta di niente è addirittura comico.
Non stiamo parlando di Saddam che ha ucciso milioni di uomini e che pure era 
amico di tutti i Paesi europei. Non stiamo parlando di un Amadinejhad che 
sta preparando una Guerra nucleare contro israele nella totale indifferenza 
di Obama e dell'Europa. Stiamo parlando di Leaders che hanno comunque saputo 
mantenere i loro Paesi in uno stato di relativa calma e di relativo ordine. 
E soprattutto in pace. Bisognava aiutare Ben Ali e Mubarak a gestire la 
transizione verso una più compiuta democrazia, non abbandonarli alla piazza. 
Bisogna aiutare Gheddafi a gestire la transizione della Libia da 
semi-dittatura a democrazia compiuta. Senza parteggiare con codardia per 
delle piazze tanto improbabili quanto pericolose.
Il caos del mondo arabo porterà come conseguenza da un lato il riaccendersi 
del fondamentalismo islamico anche in questi Paesi dove era stato 
faticosamente tenuto a bada, dall'altro una nuova ondata migratoria che 
nessuno può permettersi di assorbire. Ed una nuova Guerra contro Israele. 
Tutto grazie alla ipocrisia ed alla impreparazione dei nostri leaders. Oggi 
ci vorrebbe un George W. Bush, invece abbiamo tanti piccoli Premier tra gli 
Usa e l'Europa più preoccupati di seguire gli istinti adolescenziali dei 
loro probabili elettori su twitter e di facebook che impegnati a capire come 
affrontare una crisi mondiale per risolvere la quale servirebbe una dose 
enorme di pragmatismo a costo dell'impopolarità. E' la nemesi dei Social 
Network, che da un lato hanno liberato le energie dei giovani dei Paesi 
arabi, e dall'altro hanno ridotto i Politici occidentali a tristi 
immaginette da "condividere" nell'ipocrita mondo del Politicamente Corretto.

 In questi giorni viene a galla
...che sei un guappo de Vetralla.
-- 
Namib
"Lo spirito della valle non muore" (“Tao Tê Ching”, VI, 1)

 ...che sei un guappo de Vetralla.
affatto  so  quello che  s'è incula la zoccola de tu madre 

 ...che sei un guappo de Vetralla.
Hai l'indirizzo di Pugny?
Sono quasi 5 anni che aspetto che passi da me, doveva venire a 
manomettermi i freni della macchina, me lo aveva promesso.
Il ragazzo non e' di parola.

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:4d62d384$0$1368$4faf...@reader1.news.tin.it...

Ricevo solo su appuntamento!! 


In poche parole, sei una troia d'alto bordo.

 In poche parole, sei una troia d'alto bordo.
scurileee  si  dice  escort 

Il 21/02/11 22.08, The Punisher In Progress ha scritto:

Per le altre forse.

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:4d62d4ad$0$1368$4faf...@reader1.news.tin.it...

che ne pensi  della nuova  GTR? hanno aumentato la cavalleria! 

 che ne pensi  della nuova  GTR? hanno aumentato la cavalleria!
Roba da coatti.
Come te.

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:4d62d64c$0$1356$4faf...@reader1.news.tin.it...

CRUNCH 

 CRUNCH
Di cosa dovrei rodere, di una tamarromobile?
Quando iniziero' a frequentare le zone chic che frequenti tu, tifo il 
Tufello, Torbella Monaca, Boccea, iniziero a domandarmi se mi serve uno 
status symbol di quel genere.
Prima no.
Vai ancora a fare i trans-tour con Radicale o avete smesso?

Come te.
Tu non sei un cretino.
E ti viene riconosciuto dagli avversari, che č la miglior
certificazione possibile.
Persone piů cretine di te hanno fatto piů carriera.
Io non lo trovo giusto, te l'ho sempre detto.
Tu sě?

 Tu sě?
Sono le dirette conseguenze dell'allergia a certi compromessi.
Io cammino, altri strisciano.

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:4d62d7b0$0$1356$4faf...@reader1.news.tin.it...

Uhm uhm..frequento  Monte Sacro Talenti...insomma zona  Nomentana! Sono 
luoghi di Estrema Destra, evitali!!
Radicale è sparito o ha cambiato nick...evidentemente l'Equitalia gli ha 
sequestrato il doblò! 

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:utl5m6p9kngoc1nto...@4ax.com...

sparisci  pezzo di merda!! 

 sequestrato il doblò!
Vedo che non neghi il fatto che andavate insieme a trans


Non insultare la Legge, pulciaro.

 Non insultare la Legge, pulciaro.
ROTFL!!  ma  se al processo in Toscana  ha fatto una  gran figura di merda!! 

 Vedo che non neghi il fatto che andavate insieme a trans
embč?  il reato? 

 ROTFL!!  ma  se al processo in Toscana  ha fatto una  gran figura di merda!!
Qui lui e' lo Sceriffo, fine.
Tu invece sei uno sfigato che va a trans con Radicale e che millanta di 
possedere tamarrate da Fast and Furious.

 embè?  il reato?
Nessuno, se ti piace prenderlo nel culo sono affari tuoi.
Certo, stride un po' con il tuo personaggio da macho fascista, ma non 
sei certo il primo.

 Qui lui e' lo Sceriffo, fine.
e  tu  sei il vice  vè?

 Nessuno, se ti piace prenderlo nel culo sono affari tuoi.
Ahhhh  tu  quando ci vai fai il passivo? 

 affatto
Sei tu forse un triste ratto
che sul termosifon danza?
Sta' tranquillo: la sirena
s'ode or or dell'ambulanza.


 Hai l'indirizzo di Pugny?
Mai! Orror ho de' tristi grugni
dei maial nella sua stanza.
Fortunatamente (beh,
ce lo sai) c'è l'ambulanza.


 Ahhhh  tu  quando ci vai fai il passivo?
No, io non ci vado, e' diverso.

Il 21/02/11 22.40, The Punisher In Progress ha scritto:

No.

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:4d62ddb0$0$1356$4faf...@reader1.news.tin.it...

mmmmm  bugiardo 

 Ricevo solo su appuntamento!!
Devo forse, ahinoi, dedurre
che il tuo mento l'ène ottuso?



Ma anche no.

 Paesi arabi ad Al Quaeda
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/02/21/arab.unrest.alqaeda.analysis/index.html?hpt=C1
The burgeoning democracy movement across the Middle East appears to have 
caught al Qaeda off guard, and threatens to reduce the terror group to 
irrelevance, CNN terror analyst Paul Cruickshank finds
Why Arab Spring could be al Qaeda's fall
By Paul Cruickshank, CNN Terrorism Analyst
February 21, 2011 -- Updated 2058 GMT (0458 HKT)
Editor's note: Paul Cruickshank is an analyst on terrorism for CNN and 
alumni fellow at the NYU Center on Law and Security .
(CNN) -- When historians in future years grapple with the significance of 
the overthrow of the Mubarak regime in Egypt 10 days ago, coming as it did 
in the wake of the "Jasmine" January 14 Revolution in Tunisia, they may 
judge it not only as a seismic event, shattering and renewing the Arab 
political order, but also the key watershed moment in confronting the global 
al Qaeda threat.
The political, economic, and cultural stagnation that al Qaeda fed off for 
more than two decades has been replaced by the fastest moving change the 
region has ever witnessed, the most promising of Arab Springs.
The burgeoning democracy movement across the Middle East appears to have 
caught al Qaeda off guard and threatens to reduce the terrorist group to 
irrelevance.
"If you have freedom, al Qaeda will go away," said Osama Rushdi, a former 
Egyptian jihadist.
"Al Qaeda can work under a dictatorship regime, but I think if we open the 
door for all people to be part of society and have human rights, then there 
will be security not just in Egypt but around the world," Rushdi told CNN.
But others caution that the coming years will not be without dangers.
In the case of Yemen, for example, some have suggested that protests may 
weaken the government's ability to confront al Qaeda's growing presence in 
the tribal areas of the country.
Furthermore, the weakening of security services throughout the Arab world 
may allow jihadist groups like al Qaeda in the medium-term to rebuild 
capabilities, warns Noman Benotman, a former Libyan jihadist once personally 
acquainted with al Qaeda leaders, including Osama bin Laden and Ayman al 
Zawahiri.
"This is a make or break moment for al Qaeda," said Benotman, now a senior 
analyst at the Quilliam Foundation, a UK counter-extremist think tank.
In the short term, Benotman says, al Qaeda will need to navigate strong 
countervailing winds. The clamor by protesters from North Africa to the Gulf 
for more democracy is hardly change al Qaeda can believe in.
"What we see playing out now is completely against what al Qaeda is 
preaching," Benotman said.
In an April 2008 online Q&A with supporters, al Qaeda's No. 2 Zawahiri wrote 
that the only alternative to the Mubarak regime was setting up an Islamic 
state in Egypt, by which he meant an al Qaeda-style theocracy.
"Change (in Egypt) is coming -- with Allah's permission -- without a doubt, 
for this corrupt, rotten regime cannot possibly continue. The important 
thing is getting ready for change and being patient in that and preparing to 
accept sacrifices, then making use of the opportunities," he wrote.
But now, faced with a script they never expected, al Qaeda's top leadership 
could be in danger of losing the plot.
The televised scenes of secular, middle-class youngsters and Egyptians from 
all walks of life courageously, peacefully and ultimately successfully 
challenging the rule of President Hosni Mubarak have been transmitted onto 
tens of millions of television screens across the Arab world and have 
captured the imagination, providing vastly more attractive role models for 
young Arabs, whose hopes for too long have been strangled.
Delayed response from al Qaeda's No. 2
From Zawahiri, who has regularly weighed in on political events in Egypt, 
there finally appeared to be a reaction -- of sorts -- to the Egyptian 
protests in a tape released on the Internet pn Friday.
In the audio statement, al Qaeda's No. 2 neither directly acknowledges the 
protests nor the removal from power of Mubarak, instead referring to "what 
happened and happens in Egypt." The statement was dated the second Islamic 
lunar month of Safar, which corresponded to the period between January 6 and 
February 3, indicating that it was recorded at least a week before Mubarak 
left office. Demonstrations gathered pace in Egypt on January 25.
In his statement, Zawahiri as usual railed against the Mubarak regime but 
also criticized democracy as a system of government, hardly sentiment that 
endeared him to the millions thronging that day into Tahrir Square and other 
locations in Egypt to celebrate a "Day of Joy."
Self-preservation may explain Zawahiri's slow response.
According to data provided to CNN by IntelCenter, an American company that 
tracks al Qaeda statements, Zawahiri two years ago managed to get messages 
out as quickly as 10 days after a news event. But in the past year, his 
fastest response time was 32 days, suggesting that intensified U.S. drone 
strikes in the tribal areas of Pakistan may have pushed him into deeper 
hiding.
When he recorded the just-released message, it was possible that events 
could still play into his hands. During the first days of February the 
stakes in Egypt's Tahrir Square for al Qaeda and the United States could 
hardly have been higher.
As the protests gathered strength, it appeared possible that the Mubarak 
regime might move to crush the demonstrators and that Arab street protesters 
would view the United States as complicit.
Such a crackdown, and the frustration of raised expectations across the 
region, could have created a newly receptive climate for al Qaeda's key 
propaganda message -- that the United States deliberately props up Middle 
Eastern dictatorships to prevent the emergence of an Islamic world power --  
and no doubt Zawahiri and other al Qaeda leaders would have exploited it to 
try to win recruits. But the ground shifted, Mubarak fell, and the United 
States strengthened its support for the demonstrators, hollowing out the al 
Qaeda narrative.
When in the coming weeks Zawahiri finally acknowledges Mubarak's exit, he 
will probably be seen by most Egyptians as more out of touch than ever. "He 
has no popularity in Egypt anymore," said Rushdi, the former Egyptian 
jihadist.
Rushdi spent time with Zawahiri in Peshawar in the late 1980s and remembers 
how Zawahiri and a number of other Egyptians with key leadership positions 
within al Qaeda influenced the worldview of bin Laden and pushed his 
fledgling organization toward armed confrontation with Arab regimes.
Rushdi does not mince his words: "Mubarak is responsible for most of the 
problem of al Qaeda," he said.
However that claim is judged, what is clear is that many of the Egyptians in 
Peshawar at the time of al Qaeda's creation in 1988 had been radicalized by 
harsh treatment in Mubarak's prisons. And Zawahiri's anger against the ally 
of the regime that imprisoned and tortured him would later help fuel al 
Qaeda's decision to launch the September 11 attacks.
Rushdi says the end of the Mubarak regime will prevent men like Zawahiri 
from again emerging in Egypt.
Benotman, the former Libyan jihadist, cautions against jumping to such 
conclusions. He stresses that regime change is far from complete in Tunisia 
and Egypt. He argues that as long as Western-backed armed forces continue to 
dominate politics across the region, al Qaeda's message will continue to hit 
home for some, adding that those who are already ideologically committed to 
al Qaeda's Global Jihad are unlikely to be swayed by current events.
The past 10 days demonstrated that events can take unpredictable turns, 
offering up opportunities for Islamist terrorist groups.
In Libya, an ongoing deadly crackdown on protesters could provide an 
opportunity to al Qaeda and regional affiliates to gain new recruits. 
Radicalization in recent years has run high in Libya, especially in its 
eastern provinces. While the Iraqi insurgency was at its peak, more young 
men traveled from Libya to join al Qaeda in Iraq than from any country apart 
from Saudi Arabia.
As protests sweep the region, nowhere is U.S national security more at stake 
than in Yemen, from where al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula has twice 
launched attempts to attack the U.S. homeland in the last 14 months.
There is a danger that the recent deadly assaults on protesters in Sanaa by 
pro-government elements could be exploited by al Qaeda in the Arabian 
Peninsula in the coming weeks to win recruits for its intensfying campaign 
against security services in the country, especially if the death toll rises 
and the protest movement is crushed. President Ali Abdullah Saleh's close 
counter-terrorism cooperation with the United States would allow al Qaeda to 
weave such a crackdown into its propoganda narrative of American-backed 
dictatorships oppressing Muslim populations.
There is also a danger that if demonstrations gather force and there is a 
precipitous and chaotic end to Saleh's 33-year rule, al Qaeda may have, at 
least in the short term, an opportunity to extend its safe haven in the 
country.
In the Gulf state of Bahrain, a key U.S. ally hosting the headquarters of 
the United States Fifth Fleet, any repeat of last week's deadly crackdown on 
demonstrators could also be exploited by al Qaeda, even if many (but by no 
means all) of those demonstrating are from the country's majority but 
disenfrachised-feeling Shiite community. The group have often been targeted 
by al Qaeda and likeminded groups across the Muslim world because their 
views are seen as heretical.
Future opportunities for jihadists
Benotman says that with the weakening of security services in some Arab 
countries, the greatest future opportunities may lie for jihadist groups 
with a narrow regional agenda rather than those like al Qaeda focused on 
attacking the United States and its Western allies.
According to Benotman, one of the groups that may try to rebuild its 
activities in Egypt is Zawahiri's very own group: Egyptian Islamic Jihad.
Zawahiri fused his group with al Qaeda shortly before September 11 and 
aligned it with bin Laden's Global Jihad, against the desire of some within 
the group who wanted to carry on focusing on operations in Egypt.
Earlier this month, what appears to be a breakaway faction of Egyptian 
Islamic Jihad issued a statement on the situation in Egypt, calling for the 
"elimination of the Pharaoh and his lackeys." The statement was issued from 
Iran under the name of Tharwat Salah Shehata.
Benotman -- who met Shehata, an Egyptian lawyer turned jihadist, in 
Kandahar, Afghanistan, in 2000 -- says he was a leading figure in the group 
in the 1990s.
Shehata, according to Benotman, opposed the group's merger with al Qaeda and 
vied with Zawahiri for leadership of the group in the years before September 
11. Shehata and several other members of Egyptian Islamic Jihad appear to 
have eventually found safe haven in Iran.
The new Egyptian Islamic Jihad statement, says Benotman, represents a 
relaunching of the group's campaign to create an Islamic state in Egypt. 
Given the geopolitical standoff between Iran and Egypt, Benotman says it is 
likely that Iranian authorities gave tacit approval for the group to issue 
the communiqué.
If Benotman is right, this may be the start of a shift by some Islamist 
militant groups back toward attempts to topple regimes in the Arab world, 
weakened by the events of the past weeks.
Some argue that it was the successful repression of jihadist groups by the 
security forces of Arab regimes that led al Qaeda to target the United 
States in the first place. Forced into exile in countries like Afghanistan 
and Pakistan, men like Zawahiri came to view the United States as the main 
barrier to the creation of new Islamic order at home.
"Mubarak exported Egypt's problems to the whole world," said Rushdi, the 
former Egyptian jihadist.
Outside Yemen, it may prove difficult for jihadist groups to gain traction. 
Violent campaigns by Islamist militants in Algeria and Egypt in the 1990s 
turned the vast majority of the population against them. Furthermore, 
decades of repression by security services destroyed many jihadist groups' 
capabilities or restricted them to remote areas like the Sahel region south 
of Algeria and Egypt's Sinai Desert.
Additionaly, in some countries, like Libya, reconciliation efforts have 
reduced the risk of a return to violence because they removed from the scene 
established jihadist outfits capable of recruiting and organizing 
radical-leaning youth. Several former members of the Libyan Islamic Fighting 
Group were released Wednesday as a part of an ongoing peace process 
initiated by Saif al Islam Gadhafi, the son of Libya's leader, which saw the 
group renounce violence in Libya.
What jihadist groups should fear
But what such jihadist groups should fear most is a real and sustained 
transition toward democracy, broad-based economic opportunity and freedom of 
expression in the Arab world. Far fewer young Arabs would probably then be 
attracted to violent Islamist ideology. Like the protesters of Tahrir 
Square, they would find meaning, purpose and opportunities in other causes.
Change, of course, will not come overnight. And in some Arab countries, even 
if pro-democracy demonstrators prevail, political transformation will 
probably take many years to achieve. Yemen is a case in point because of its 
weak state institutions, lack of an educated middle class and strong tribal 
structures. But if there is a pan-Arab political opening, the momentum will 
be strongly against al Qaeda.
The events in the Arab world may also have an impact on homegrown extremism 
in the West.
In Europe, radical Islamist preachers have been able to prey on a sense of 
identity loss, discrimination and alienation experienced by second- and 
third-generation Muslim immigrants from the Arab world and South Asia. Their 
message has been that such youngsters should devote themselves to efforts to 
remove an oppressive Western presence from the Muslim world so that a 
theocratic Islamic Golden Age can be recreated.
But at a time when images of Tahrir Square rather than American tanks are 
dominating Al Jazeera and other news outlets popular amongst immigrant 
communities in Europe, that radical vision may start to lose its luster. 
Moreover, it will be harder for radical preachers to sell the line that 
Western-style democracy is inherently anti-Muslim and un-Islamic, if Arab 
diaspora communities see it empowering their relatives on the southern 
shores of the Mediterranean.
If the winds are indeed changing from an era of Islamist militancy to 
democracy in the Middle East, nothing is more illustrative of this than the 
story of Osama Rushdi, the former Egyptian jihadist interviewed for this 
piece.
Previously the spokesman of Gamma Islamiya, an armed Egyptian Jihadist 
group, Rushdi resigned from the group in the mid-1990s, renounced violence 
and has in recent years worked closely together with a range of Egyptian 
opposition figures in the UK, including secular liberal intellectuals under 
the auspices of the Save Egypt Front to bring constitutional democracy to 
Egypt. Last year, he even helped organize a conference in London for 
Mohammed ElBaradei, a Nobel Prize laureate and potential Egyptian 
presidential candidate, and he now hopes to return to Egypt.
"The Egyptian young people created one of biggest wonderful peaceful 
civilian revolutions, so now they are proud about themselves and demand a 
civilian state and democratic institutions," Rushdi said.
In the long term, a successful democratic transition in the Arab world would 
arguably make the United States significantly safer from al Qaeda terrorism. 
The threat of attack would remain because, as September 11 illustrated, even 
a small group of dedicated individuals can create terrible carnage, and al 
Qaeda today continues to enjoy safe havens in Pakistan and Yemen from where 
it can organize new attacks. But if al Qaeda's recruiting efforts are 
significantly hampered, so will its campaign of global terrorism. 


Comincia ad andare tu ad aiutare quel pagliaccio terrorista, e vedi di 
portarti il nano, per farti compagnia!
Buon viaggio IDIOTA!
-- 
Gattobianco

Il boia Gheddafi, l'assassino dei 259 innocenti di Lockerbie, il 
massacratore del suo popolo dovrebbe suicidarsi prima che lo 
impicchino.
E chi gli bacio' le mani dovrebbe fare lo stesso!

