Newsgroup: it.politica
Titolo: I ADMIT: I was a terrorist but not anymore; so don't give me back to Turkey.

"We have abandoned terrorism 
and are ready for a peace accord," 
he told 
the newspaper La Repubblica. 
in other words APO is saying:
I ADMIT:  I was a terrorist  but not anymore; so don't give 
me back to Turkey.
Wednesday, November 18, 1998 Published at 13:47 GMT 
Turks launch fax blitz on Italy 
 
Turks launch fax blitz on Italy
Turkey has called on its citizens to send an avalanche of faxes to Italy
demanding the return of Kurdish rebel leader Abdullah Ocalan. 
And post offices are offering free faxes for anyone writing to the Italian
authorities. 
The fax blitz is the latest tactic in a diplomatic row which blew up
following the
arrest of Kurdish leader Abdullah Ocalan in Rome. 
Turkey wants Mr Ocalan extradited, but Italian law forbids extradition to
countries that retain the death penalty. 
Turkish Transport and Communications Minister Ahmet Denizolgun said: "We
have launched this campaign to help our citizens express their wishes about
the
extradition of the terrorist chief who is responsible for 30,000 deaths." 
Earlier Turkish Prime Minister Mesut Yilmaz called on the millions of Turks
living in Europe to demonstrate their support for the government's
position. 
Mr Ocalan, who has applied for political asylum, is leader of the Kurdistan
Workers' Party (PKK) which is fighting for Kurdish autonomy in south east
Turkey. 
In an interview on Wednesday Mr Ocalan said he had come to Italy in the
hope
of putting international pressure on Turkey to seek a peaceful solution to
its
14-year old war with the Kurds. 
"We have abandoned terrorism and are ready for a peace accord," 
he told the
newspaper La Repubblica. "My presence here testifies to a change in 
the strategy of the Kurdish national movement." 
PKK activists set themselves on fire 
The crisis has sparked a series of demonstrations across Europe. 
Protests in Turkey by Kurdish activists turned violent on Tuesday, while
two
PKK activists in Moscow set themselves on fire. One later died in hospital.
Thousands of Kurdish demonstrators also marched through the centre of Rome
in support of Mr Ocalan. 
In Brussels two policemen were hurt and buildings set alight when Turks in
the
Belgian capital demonstrated in favour of Mr Ocalan's extradition. 
But Italian Premier Massimo D'Alema defended Italy's right to grant asylum
saying it was a ''great European tradition''. 
"Whatever we decide should not be interpreted as a hostile act against
Turkey,
but as an act of respect for our own laws, our history, our values," he
added. 
But he said Italy would have to be convinced Mr Ocalan had renounced
terrorist activities. 
Plans to abolish death penalty
Mr Ocalan fled abroad in 1980 after the army staged a coup and has lived in
exile ever since. 
He has been on the run since he left Syria last month, after Turkey
threatened to
take military action against Damascus. 
He was detained at Rome's Fiumicino airport after flying in from Moscow on
a
false passport, according to Italian police. 
He was arrested because both Turkey and Germany have issued arrest warrants
for him. 
The situation is complicated by Italy's obligations to fellow EU-member
Germany, where an extradition request is reportedly being prepared. 
Meanwhile, the Turkish Government is planning legislation to abolish
capital
punishment in an attempt to secure Mr Ocalan's extradition. 

Did the similar press organizations show PKK bombings after the arrest? Italy
is responsible for this new incident. Ocalan should stand a try. Don't back
international terrorism. He slaughtered 35000 people.
Nevit
Aldo Leoni wrote:

--
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9594/dream.htm

 
Italian laws forbid sending people to judgement where they could receive
a death sentence. We must respect our laws, whoever is under judgement.
See you,
		Silver Drake

Ma scrivi come parli!!!!!!!!!
o vai su un NG inglese
--
Emas
ema...@hotmail.com

Silver,
Ocalan probably knew this before you.
Italy was carefully selected by Ocalan to be a shield for PKK acitivites. Italian
consitiution forbid sending Ocalan to Turkey where he comitted 35000 murders. Now
Italy will be responsible by backing a terrorist and all his activites. Being in
contradiction with intention of law.
Nevit
Silver Drake wrote:

--
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9594/dream.htm

Nevit

Hey Colombo!
Before I tell you, you may tell me :
How many people your fascist Mussolini slaughtered?
How was your prime minister  slaughtered?


 >Nevit
--
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9594/dream.htm

Nevit
Luca Colombo

How was your prime minister  slaughtered?
He was slaughtered by the italian resistence. Have you studied
history?
Bye 
Luca Colombo

history?
Mussolini was slaughtered, right? 
Where is due process in all of this? I thought you guys were civilized
enought to try people in court of law before lynching them. I thought you
guys were the protecters of human rights, even the rights of Mussolini for
due judicial process. I thought you would have asked Mussolini whether he
had any further intentions to carry out his dictatorship, if he would say
"No", then you would have freed Mussolini. After all he would be
abandoning his prior position and practices. That's exactly what you guys
are doing to Ocalan. I mean why all this discrimination against Mussolini 
who is of your own blood? Why did you guys lynch this poor guy? Didn't he
deserve a civilized treatment despite all his uncivilized dictatorship?
It's really hard to reconciliate Italians' love for human rights and
dedication to lawfulness with the brutal lynching of Mussolini by his own 
countrymen. Someone explain me this, please!
-- 
Kerimcan Ozcan					
Doctoral Pre-Candidate in Marketing
University of Michigan Business School
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Msge frm Italy in reply :
My Sir,
you are perfectly right in yr analysis of the italian ominous past . But
this doesnt mean that the italians have not 'grown up' since more than 50
years ago . And, in the end, the Ocalan case invest not only our country but
the EEC to which we belong by all effects. And the EEC is now acting as
Pontius Pilatus and that is ominous too.
Best rgrds,
Cino
Kerimcan Ozcan ha scritto nel messaggio ...


                Silver Drake
 But, yet Italians allowed the extradiction of JEWS to NAZI Germany where they 
would face death, eventually. Better yet, Italian law allowed the sinking a 
ship full of ALBANIAN women and children who would face death by drowing.
Also, Italian lawlessness allowed its own prime minister to be shot and left 
in a trunk of a car. Shall I continue ?
Go tell your lies about Italian lawlessness to your kids not to us. BTW, I bet 
SATAN enjoys your laws....

Cino
How about watching Albanian refuges drown in cold water , how grown up 
behaviour ? Or, letting Eric Priebke go free in the first trial ? To say the 
TRUTH Italians haven't grown an inch, may be shrunk several feet !


 Luca Colombo

: Luca Colombo wrote:
: 
: > Italy is not responsible for any bombing. You're kidding or you are
: > telling only lies. We do not back any terrorism, we follow only our
: > laws. How many people the turkish government has slaughtered in these
: > years, may you tell me ???
: >
: > Bye
: >
: > Luca Colombo
: >
Hey Luca, 
Tell us more about the laws you guys are following. Speaking of human
rights, why you guys are still invading Somali?  Look, what I found in CNN
reports :
"Some isolated cases of torture and racism did occur, but they didn't
compromise either the humanitarian spirit of the mission or the entire
Italian contingent," Gallo said. 
"However, the report said that some allegations about abuse were credible,
such as the claim that a Somali youth had been tortured with electrodes
and that a woman was raped with a stick of explosive"
(
http://www3.cnn.com/WORLD/9708/09/italy.somalia/
)
What a civilization:-))))
raping, turtoring is OK, as long as you are not responsible for any
bombing:-)) what a joke!!!
You guys, as your folk said in the following message, has grown up a lot
since the collapse of your faschist government. Torturing and raping in
Somali and protecting a killer-machine who is responsible for death of
more than 30,000 people... so you really have GROWN UP guys!!!
sweet dreams-)....
Hakan

Do you know what does it mean "civil war"? During your Civil War
thausand an thousand of people were killed only because they had a
grey or blue jacket on.
You made funny comparisons!
E

We try to help the poor Albanians refugee. We don't kill them nor with
weapon nor with gas!!!!!
We think that to kill a man is omicide and the States  who kill men
are barbarians.
Ernesto

I think we don't defend any terrorist. We don't defend Ochalan too. If
Germany wanted him, Germany will have him, because  Germany don't kill
anybody.
Ernesto

 
ema...@hotmail.com


Here is some news about CIVILIZED Italian troops in Somalia, Italian press 
will never write :



So, read this;
August 9, 1997
Web posted at: 2:16 p.m. EDT (1816 GMT) 
ROME (CNN) -- A commission in Italy cleared the army of widespread abuses 
while on a
peace mission in Somalia but said there was a lack of discipline and 
recommended better
training. Local Somali associations condemned the commission's findings as a 
whitewash. 
The commission, which was headed by former Constitutional Court Judge Ettore 
Gallo,
admitted Friday that some abuses occurred but said they represented isolated 
cases. 
"Some isolated cases of torture and racism did occur, but they didn't 
compromise either the
humanitarian spirit of the mission or the entire Italian contingent," Gallo 
said. 
The report urged improved training and communication within the army, but 
effectively
exonerated two Italian generals who resigned over the scandal in June. 
"How can the head of the whole operation know what every junior officer is up 
to?" Gallo
asked. 
However, the report said that some allegations about abuse were credible, such 
as the claim that a Somali youth had been
tortured with electrodes and that a woman was raped with a stick of explosive. 
"If she had been Italian or French or German this would not have happened," 
Gallo said. 
The report criticized a lack of discipline that allowed drugs and prostitutes 
to circulate freely in some Italian troop quarters. 
In order to remedy the situation, the report suggested that in future 
magistrates and human rights observers should travel
with soldiers on peacekeeping missions to make sure that international law is 
upheld. 
The commission interviewed well over 100 people and traveled to Africa to meet 
witnesses after an Italian news weekly
published allegations from both former soldiers in the mission and Somali 
civilians. 
The head of the Somali community in Italy strongly criticized the report. 
"It has buried everything. It was a hurried inquiry, which has absolved the 
leaders, generals and commanders, " Fatuma
Hagi Yassin said. "It's shameful." 
The 1992-95 multinational relief effort in Somalia, called Operation Restore 
Hope, has been
tarnished in recent months by claims of wrongdoing by troops from 
participating nations. 
Witness accounts and souvenir snapshots taken by peacekeepers from Canada, 
Belgium,
Italy and other countries have revealed an array of alleged crimes by 
international troops,
including the torture, rape and murder of Somalis. 
A Canadian commission investigating that country's peacekeepers' conduct 
during the
humanitarian mission concluded last month that senior officers lied and 
attempted to cover up
the killing of a Somali civilian in 1993. 
The commission's scathing final report, titled "Dishonored Legacy," asserted 
that poor leadership was rampant throughout
the military's officer corps. It said the army's 1992-93 mission to Somalia 
went awry from the start. 
In June, two Belgian peacekeepers accused of torturing a Somali boy in 1993 by 
stretching him over an open fire were
acquitted by a Belgian military court. The court found that privates Claude 
Baert and Kurt Coelus did not torture the boy
but were in fact engaging in a playful game meant to discourage him from 
stealing. 

Aug. 1 -
Italian court clears former Nazi SS Capt. Erich Priebke of most serious
charge in World War II massacre of 335 civilians. 
HERE IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF FILTHY, RACIST ITALIAN LAW !!!
CAN ANYONE OF YOU DENY IT ?
Now go take on the day....

international terrorism. He slaughtered 35000 people.
A strong charge - 35,000 is an awful lot of stiffs. Do you have any
serious evidence for this allegation? I don't mean the allegations of
the Turkish government, which like any government will call its armed
opponents "terrorists", but evidence from independent organisations
that the PKK have "slaughtered 35,000 people"?
Keep on munchin'
Gerry


  E' dura tirare fuori dalla tomba Mussolini dopo quasi 60 anni. Comunque
ritengo Mussolini il dittatore che ha ucciso meno nemici di tutti i dittatori
(o governi simili) che gli sono succeduti. L'elenco sarebbe lungo e doloroso,
sicuramente i turchi non starebbero nell'elenco tenero. Con ciň sono
dell'opinione che i teroristi vadano perseguiti. Bye.

Gina Falsetti wrote:

    Duttiri fittiri zippiri dalla malla salla solla valla.It ler ciomio falan
filan
    yalan. Bye.

 CAN ANYONE OF YOU DENY IT ?
Sure. Priebke has been sentenced to life imprisonment
--
Stefano Soro,
Bruxelles
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/
       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

Gerry the Gerbil wrote:

Hundreds of photographs of people who died are placed in the front of Italian
Ebamssies in Turkey. People who lost their relatives are ready to interview at the
front of Italian Embassies in Turkey every day.
USD department of foreign affairs is volunteer to pass the documents they own to
Italian. gov. Italian gov. is unwilling to recieve the documents.
Germany and Belgium are willing to pass the documents they own.
There are hundreds of hours of films that can be obtained by requesting any of the
Turkish Private or National Televisions. A 20 second film labeled "keep your pasta
clean" was send to CNN, RAI, and Euronews was showed only by Euronews. Rai and cnn
censored the film claiming the film to be undemonstrable.
Italian landmines which caused life and extremity loss of hundreds of civilians
are admitted by Italian Primeminister to be sold to PKK.
Debiliated persons are available for interview.
You can check the following web pages to see some photographs.
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/LeftBank/5535/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/5224/Apo-in-italy.html
Fianlly you can ask Italy's VIP Guest Ocalan himself how many women and children
he did killed.
The budget and guns for these acts comes mostly from Europe. US is consistent in
his international anti-terrorism policy.
Nevit
--
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9594/dream.htm

Bzzzzzzzzz... wrong!
No, you are wrong ! The military court and the judges who tried him at first 
let him go free. As according to your glorious Italian law, this GENOCIDAL 
MANIAC was just carrying out the orders of his superiors...
Then, there was a big out cry from Italian Jews ( god bless them for teaching 
the rest of you what justice means ! ) which forced the your corrupt racist  
goverment to try him at  "Corte di Cassazione" and finally sentence him to 
life.
Now, your reluctance for extraditing APO can be due to the fact when he was 
killing 30000 innocent humanbeings he was merely following his orders from the 
racist Italian government.
Now, go find learn more about your racist history....





 his international anti-terrorism policy.
True enough. The US is consistently the world's most powerful and
dangerous terrorist force.
Anyway, in search of a more independent source on atrocities in Turkey
and Kurdistan I turned to the Amnesty International website
(
http://www.amnesty.org
) and found the following under the "Country
Reports" section:
Turkey: “Birds or Earthworms” - the Guclukonak Massacre, Its Alleged
Cover-Up and the Prosecution of Independent Investigators
http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/aipub/1998/SUM/44402498.htm
Children at risk of torture, death in custody and "disappearance"
http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/aipub/1996/SUM/44414496.htm
The latter report includes the following disturbing paragraph:
"In this report Turkish children as young as 12 describe being subjected
to torture, including electric shocks, hosing with cold water and
beating. Children as young as 14 report being sexually assaulted and
threatened with rape. Children have also "disappeared" after
eye-witnesses last saw them being taken away by security forces. In the
conflict between the Kurdish Workers' Party (PKK) and state forces in
the southeast, children have been the victims of abuses by both sides.
Children have been killed in village massacres committed by the PKK, but
also in operations by state security forces."
You can also find many, many other reports on Turkish state terrorism at
the Amnesty site - I've just mentioned two. This is not to excuse any
actions the PKK have carried out - two wrongs do not make a right - but
to demonstrate that Turkey's hands are hardly clean of innocent blood.
If anyone wants to see PKK propaganda, they should have a look at
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/index-b.html
 and
http://pkk.org/pkk/
Now, could someone please post some *independent* evidence of PKK
atrocities? English or Italian is fine. I'm sick of reading propaganda.
Keep on munchin'
Gerry

of knowledge in this field.
Soro, ci resta solo il Pigato o un buon Tocai. Loro si
sfogano e noi intanto beviamo.
Alla salute di questa vecchia Italia!  Vedendo cosa sono gli
altri, e non solo i turchi, quasi quasi smetto di
criticarli, sti benedetti connazionali.
Cin cin!
NILO

> >>


atrocities? English or Italian is fine. I'm sick of reading propaganda.
You are a demagogue. For anybody to provide entirely *independent*
evidence he/she must have been on the crime scene before the Turkish
authorities have arrived. Otherwise, one can always argue that Turkish
authorities in fact committed the crime and then invited the *independent*
observer to record this as a terrorist action. Following your pathetic
logic, for his/her testimony to be a entirely independent, an
*independent* observer must have been present at the crime scene while
the crime was being committed, either by chance or by invitation from the
terrorists. Tell me, where in the world are crimes recorded by
*independent* observers at the moment of being committed?? Any and all
crimes which were not eyewitnessed by *independent* observers at the
moment of being committed, then are potentially crimes committed by the
law enforcement officers! That's what your sick reasoning leads us to.
Then all the law enforcement offices around the world from New York City
to Paris, from Rome to London are centers of crime. Why don't you raise
the same issue at all these law enforcement offices?


 terrorists. 
No, that's following the casuistical logic in your interpretation of
what I'm asking. So, I'll ask it again, for those with stunted
intellectual capacities: could someone please provide evidence for PKK
atrocities collated by other than the Turkish state or the PKK? Pretty
damn simple request, I'd have thought. For example, eyewitness reports
collated by bodies like Amnesty International or the Red Cross.
Keep on munchin'
Gerry

collated by bodies like Amnesty International or the Red Cross.
Yeah, where is then the *independent* evidence (e.g. Red Cross) for the
Holocaust?? You are digging yourself in a deep hole. 
Why don't you ask Amnesty International for their reasons in not
collecting eyewitness reports about PKK attacks? I tell you why: news
about PKK terror don't fetch as much popular appeal as news about Turkish
human rights abuses. No country or interest group (other than Turkey) has
a specific interest in seeing PKK put in a bad picture, but I can give you
several country names and interest groups who get elated in joy whenever
they see AI issue incriminating reports about Turkey. That's what commands
AI donations from all these benefactors. Since nobody in Turkey or of
Turkish nationality provides significant funds to AI, they have no
interest whatsoever in pursuing PKK-caused human rights abuses. 


collated by bodies like Amnesty International or the Red Cross.
I gave you enough reasons above for why you are a demagogue or a clueless
amateur debater. Your demands for *independent* evidence are completely
futile. To recap, nevertheless:
First, there is no such *independent* observer unless he is a
Martian. 
Second, this is not the way law has been applied anywhere in the
world. 
Third, AI and Red Cross are not criminal investigation organizations.


 teaching  the rest of you what justice means ! )
Yeah right, they're the right ones to teach us what justice means.
Please, tell us more jokes.
Rick

Let me getting it right.
There is a guy from PKK jailed in Italy.
Turkish government wants him too.
A bunch of kurdish start to protest in front the italian parlament. (I can
imagine the people in Rome, "Mannaggia li Turchi!")
The italian government made an announcement about this guy jailed. They have
enough shit to deal with already.
People in turkey burn the Italian flag! (I saw this one on BBC One today)
Did I miss something?
Why don't they ship this guy to US?
 :-)


 Cin cin!
Prosit!
Ciao.


Third, AI and Red Cross are not criminal investigation organizations.
Right, so basically I've got to take the word of you and the Turkish
government that the PKK are terrorists, right? Forget it, pal - I
don't take the word of government as truth, and I prefer making my own
mind up instead of being told what I should think. And no, I'm not
going to waste any time arguing ontology and epistomology about what's
"independent" or not - most ordinary, rational folk know bloody well
what I mean. Anyway, if you had any evidence of PKK atrocities
produced by bodies other than the Turkish government you'd have
produced it with glee by now, so I presume that you don't have any.
Plainly I'm wasting my time with you, matey. If anyone *else* has
followed this thread, could they please point me to evidence of PKK
atrocities? As they're supposed to have offed at least 30,000 people
there must be stacks of it around on the WWW.
Keep on munchin'
Gerry

agenda.
I'm not appealing to any prejudices, you fucking dimwit! I'm just
asking for information. You and the Turkish state say the PKK are
terrorists, well I want to see the frigging evidence, it's as simple
as that. I have no opinion on the PKK-Turkey conflict because I know
sod-all about it. I've no agenda, and I've not quoted any "historical
facts", because until this Ocalan crisis blew up I took very little
interest in Turkey and the PKK. The only reason I'm trying to find
more info about it is that I'm an italophile and plainly this Ocalan
thing is a very big issue in Italy right now.
Anyway, you're plainly full of it, so into my killfile you go, O
blathering one. Cheerio.
Keep on munchin'
Gerry 





Thank you for proving my point about revival of racism among the Italian  
nation ! One more joke is Italian Judicial System ! The best joke is currently 
 Italian Government ! 
Again THANK YOU VERY MUCH ! 

 Gerry

 Gerry

 --Here is the breakdown of the casualties in this 15 year old, dirty war:
Ok, thanks. Do you have a source for your figures?
Keep on munchin'
Gerry

produced it with glee by now, so I presume that you don't have any.
You are a lazy demagogue. A very causal and not-so-in-depth search on the
web revealed the following links. Certainly, a more detailed search in
different languages (I do know German but don't have the time to explore
the German sites at the moment) will only make this list longer and more
overwhelmingly in support of the message Turkey has been trying to
get through amidst all this dirty propaganda by hatemongers of Turkey.
Also note that most the material presented below refers to PKK activities
in the late 90s. I am sure there is even more printed material dating
prior to the Internet era which have not been converted to digital form
yet. There is no way you can whitewash PKK. The facts are out there, only
the blind and/or the PKK-sympathizers can escape confronting them.
Amnesty International
---------------------
http://www.amnesty.org//news/1996/P1000696.htm
General (Annual Report) International Community Failing to Take
Responsibility for Massive Human Rights Violations in 1995:
PKK members were responsible for at least 60 deliberate and arbitrary
killings in Turkey. Villagers armed and paid by the Turkish government to
fight the PKK and captured by the PKK during the course of attacks were
frequently killed, in some cases together with their extended families.
http://www.amnesty.org//news/1998/44402898.htm
In the early 1990s armed organizations in Turkey killed hundreds of
civilians and prisoners. Organizations such as the PKK, Revolutionary Left
(Devrimci Sol) and TIKKO (Workers and Peasants' Army of Turkey) would
frequently announce, as if proud of their handiwork, that this journalist,
or that Kurdish villager had been "punished".
Human Rights Watch
------------------
http://www.hrw.org/hrw/press98/nov/italy1123.htm
http://www.hrw.org/hrw/press98/nov/italy-apendix.htm
Synopsis:
Human Rights Watch recounted that between 1992 and 1995, the height of the
conflict, Ocalan's PKK is believed to have been responsible for at least
768 extrajudicial executions, mostly of civil servants and teachers,
political opponents, off-duty police officers and soldiers, and those
deemed by the PKK to be "state supporters." In addition, the PKK committed
numerous large-scale massacres of civilians, usually against villagers or
villages that somehow were connected with the state civil defense
"village guard system." 
A date by date account of the massacres can also be found on that page.
The Terrorism Research Center
-----------------------------
http://www.terrorism.com/terrorism/PKK.html
The Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) is one of the most active and
best-organized terrorist organizations in the world...
The PKK is not so merciful when it comes to attacks on the government and
its supporters, where casualties of their insurgency count scores of
women and children amongst the dead and injured. This new wave of mayhem
has lasted since for ten years and has resulted in an estimated 10,000
deaths during that time. 
U.S. Department of State
------------------------
http://www.state.gov/www/global/human_rights/1996_hrp_report/turkey.html
Turkey Country Report on Human Rights Practices for 1996:
The PKK has committed widespread abuses and regularly employed terrorism
against the Government and civilians, mostly Kurds...
PKK terrorists murdered noncombatants, targeting village officials,
teachers, and other perceived representatives of the State and committed
random murders in their effort to intimidate the populace. The PKK
brutally murdered seven primary school teachers in predominantly Kurdish
areas and often targeted civilians in an effort to prevent them from
collaborating with security forces or to coerce them into assisting the
insurgents. The PKK was also responsible for at least 23 disappearances. 
The PKK continued to commit political and extrajudicial killings,
primarily in rural southeast Anatolia. Political killings
perpetrated by the PKK have in the past included those of state officials
(Jandarma, local mayors, imams, and schoolteachers), state-paid
paramilitary village guards and their family members, young villagers who
refused to be recruited, and PKK guerrillas-turned-informants. According
to government figures, for the first 10 months of 1996 the PKK killed 447
people in several operations, including at least 109 unarmed civilians,
and wounded 900 other people. This total included 7 schoolteachers,
bringing the total number of teachers killed by the PKK over the last 12
years to 153. The PKK also destroyed 70 primary and middle schools. This
year the PKK began a new campaign of suicide bombings by women, who
had usually been drugged or coerced in other ways...
The Government, human rights organizations, and the media report that the
PKK routinely kidnaps young men or threatens their families as part of its
recruiting effort. PKK terrorists continued their abductions of local
villagers, teachers, journalists, and officials in the southeast.
According to the Government, the PKK abducted 23 people through October,
and killed at least 4 of them...
Since 1984 the separatist PKK has waged a violent terrorist insurgency in
southeast Turkey, directed against both security forces and civilians,
almost all of them Kurds, whom the PKK accuses of cooperating with the
State...
The PKK burned some villages to seek revenge on paramilitary village
guards...
Although schools have remained open in most urban centers, in the
southeast, rapid migration has led to severe overcrowding of schools and
chronic teacher shortages. The PKK policy of murdering teachers
exacerbated the situation...
The PKK, in an effort to draw attention to its cause, kidnaped foreign
tourists and other travelers in the region for short periods...
http://www.state.gov/www/global/terrorism/1996Report/europe.html
Patterns of Global Terrorism 1996:
The number of terrorist incidents committed by the Kurdistan Workers'
Party (PKK) in Turkey in 1996 declined significantly due to the group's
unilateral cease-fire from December 1995 until the fall of 1996.
Nonetheless, the PKK was responsible for sporadic terrorist attacks during
the cease-fire period, most notably, the 30 June suicide bombing against a
Turkish military parade in Tunceli. The attack killed nine security forces
personnel and wounded another 35. The suicide bombing marked the
first time the PKK had used this tactic even though PKK leader Abdullah
Ocalan had threatened earlier in the year to use suicide bombings against
Turkey's Western cities in an effort to drive away tourists.
Since the end of the cease-fire the PKK has stepped up its attacks against
military and civilian targets in southeastern Turkey. The most noteworthy
incidents include two more suicide bombings-in Adana and Sivas-in late
October that killed two civilians in addition to eight security forces
personnel. The suicide bombing in Sivas is of note because the city, well
outside of the southeast, is in an area that the Turkish Government
previously considered to be relatively secure. In two other incidents four
schoolteachers were murdered outside of Diyarbakir in October and three
tourists-including a US citizen-were kidnapped outside of Bingol in
September. The US citizen and his Polish traveling companion were later
released unharmed. There is no word on the status of the third hostage,
reportedly an Iranian. The killing of schoolteachers and kidnapping of
foreigners are traditional PKK terrorist acts but had not been seen in
almost two years.
Turkey Country Report on Human Rights Practices for 1997:
The PKK committed widespread abuses, including the frequent murder of
noncombatants, as part of its terrorism against the Government and
civilians, mostly Kurds...
PKK terrorists murdered noncombatants, targeting village officials,
village guards, teachers, and other perceived representatives of the
State. They also committed random murders in their effort to intimidate
the populace... 
The PKK continued to commit political and extrajudicial killings,
primarily in rural southeast Anatolia. Political killings perpetrated by
the PKK have included state officials (Jandarma, local mayors, imams, and
schoolteachers), state-paid paramilitary village guards and their family
members, young villagers who refused to be recruited, and PKK
guerrillas-turned-informants...
PKK terrorists continued their abductions of local villagers, teachers,
journalists, and officials in the southeast... 
Since 1984 the separatist PKK has waged a violent terrorist insurgency in
southeast Turkey, directed against both security forces and civilians,
almost all of them Kurds, whom the PKK accuses of cooperating with the
State...
http://secretary.state.gov/www/briefings/9810/981005db.html
Daily Press Briefing (10/5/98)
We have designated the PKK as a foreign terrorist organization under the
1996 Anti-Terrorism and Death Penalty Act...
http://www.state.gov/www/global/terrorism/terrorist_orgs_list.html
Foreign Terrorist Organizations (Released by the Office of the Coordinator
for Counterterrorism, U.S. Department of State, October 8, 1997):
Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK)
http://www.state.gov/www/policy_remarks/970430.wilcox.html
BRIEFING BY AMBASSADOR PHILIP WILCOX ON RELEASE OF REPORT, PATTERNS OF
GLOBAL TERRORISM 1996:
The PKK is a notorious terrorist organization.  We have identified it as a
terrorist organization and we have deplored the many acts of terrorism
by the PKK in Turkey and in western Europe as well, and we have strongly
discouraged any government from offering any kind of moral or other
support to the PKK. 


 Gerry
--
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9594/dream.htm




 Gerry

thing is a very big issue in Italy right now.
The following site contains the information you want from a neutral source,
The Human Rights Watch:
http://www.hrw.org/hrw/press98/nov/italy-apendix.htm
Francesco

 


Here is the exact translation of the article:
Oh Pleeease! Hurriyet On Line! This is your source? Nothing better? I
suppose you usually take your informations about the Greeks-Makedonians
problems in Greeks nationalists newspapers. Well, I'm italian. If I really
wont the truth about violences of italian soldiers in Somalia I read foreing
press or italian indipendent press, not bulletin of Italian Armed Forces.
Those guys outside Turkiye wonts Indipendent sources. It seems not so hard
to understand. The Ocalan problem seems not so hard to understand.
1) Ocalan come in Italy.
2) He says to italian police: "Good morning, i'm mister Ocalan"
3) The italian police says "Mmmmh, wait a minute, the Italian law have no
problems with you but there's a international warrant of arrest. Germany and
Turkiye justice wont your scalp. We must to arrest you."
4) The italian justice read Italian Constitution Law. "Mmmmh, we cant send
him in Turkiye, there's a problem with capital law. Like with Pietro
Venezia, requested by the Nato allied and nuclear power USA."
5) Germany don't request Ocalan extradition. OK, they won't to import this
big problem. (Just a question: why no germans flags burned? )
6) The Italian justice says "Mmmmh. We can't send him to Turkiye (otherwise
we are out of italian current laws) , Germany won't him, there's no pending
proceedings against him here in Italy, until the situation remains the same
we can't mantain him in arrest (otherwise we are out of italian current
laws).
Note n 1: Italian goverment isn't involved in this matter.
Note n 2: Did you have in Turkiye any serious law that can't be modified by
goverment in two or three days in case of unlucky political circumstances?
Well, in Italy are the main part of legislation. Our justice isn't certanly
better or faster then others but a government can't modify constitutional
Law. The parlament can do this, but in long long time and with a very large
majority.
Note n 3: No one (here, outside Turkiye, of course) can believe that the
Kurdish question is a fake of mister Ocalan and a little group of terrorist.
I can understand that Turkiye won't admit a Kurdish question, but Turkiye
can't pretend this from the rest of the world, until a few million of
Kurdish refugees scattered all over the world persist in saying that exsist
a Kurdish issue in Turkiye.
Note n 4: In '70 and '80 many italians terrorists (BR Red Brigades) took
refuge in France. France don't grant extradition because France's law don't
permit it, although France had similar problems with Action Directe and
other estreme left terrorists groups. No one in Italy burnt french flags, or
try to intimidate France goverment with arrogance and treaths.
Note n 4: The main part of what I've wrote is completly independent by the
question: "Is Ocalan a terrorist or a hero?"
Note n 5: Sorry for my really poor english.

Thanks for at last posting something I can chew on. The letter you
quote from Human Rights Watch, and other documents by them, can be
found by searching under the keyword "PKK" at 
http://www.hrw.org/
.
There are also quite a number of critical reports to be found by
searching for the keyword "Turkey". Anyway, I shall read and digest.
Keep on munchin'
Gerry


http://www.hrw.org/hrw/press98/nov/italy-apendix.htm
Finalmente! Grazie, Francesco - stavo diventando stufo di leggere solo
propaganda su una parte o l'altra, ma mi sembra che qui si debba
soffrire un "flame war" semplicemente per ottenere informazioni
Keep on munchin'
Gerry

Hi :-)
Proverò a spiegarlo nel vostro language.If che li storco spiacenti esso sono a
causa della mia conoscenza difettosa circa il vostro linguaggio.
Desiderate le informazioni?
Ieri, in Turchia, intorno 50,000 Kurds hanno protestato PKK ed il governo
italiano  in Anatolia del sud-est.
Ed in Turchia i sostenitori dei terroristi ha installato l' istituzione dell'
associazione di diritti dell'uomo. E come vostri comunisti, l' associazione
internazionale di diritti dell'uomo li accetta officialy.
La cosa circa questa dove erano mentre 5000 di Kurd non colpevole hanno ucciso
da PKK.Where era mentre mentre terroristi che rapinano intorno 4000 di  Kurds?
Credo la vostra mente.
Ciao: -)

 evidence?
For the sake of truth in March/April of 1945 Hitler blamed the jews for
the war and he also stated that nazis did not allow them to avoid the
right punishment.
As you can see the commander in chief of the nazis party was very proud
of having slaugthered millions of jews.
Where in the hell you found that the only evidence for the Holocaust has
been produced by the allies?
*Ho dato l'ordine di terra bruciata
 perche' i migliori sono tutti caduti
 e i sopravvissuti non meritano di vivere.
 Il futuro appartiene al piu' forte popolo dell'Est*
-:Adolf Hitler, Aprile 1945:-

been produced by the allies?
Go to the Nuremberg trials and look at the evidence. Is there any
*independent* evidence other than those collected and presented by the
Allied Command lawyers??


 Oh Pleeease! Hurriyet On Line! This is your source? Nothing better? 
--If you read carefully, the highest (bureaucratic) authority, the 
regional governor in charge of the Emergency Rule Region, Mr. Arslan is 
the one who is releasing the statistics to the press. That is the source. 
The same governor provided the newest statistics of casualties on 
November 14, 1998. I will post them here next time. 
I agree that Hurriyet is a sensationalist, pulp daily. However, it is the 
pipeline through which the military and the police sources disseminate 
their news. They are the first to publish. 
--But a good reader can read between the lines, discern the lies. 

 try to intimidate France goverment with arrogance and treaths.
How many deaths Red Brigade are responsible of in total?
Which members of France parliament inviting him to France for a nice
visit?
Which countries freeing him from jail?
Which countries trying to give them political asylum?
Which country levying by doing ALL THESE, an insult on Italy that defies
words?
(Flag burning is still undefensible however, in the face even all this)
piper
