Newsgroup: it.hobby.viaggi
Titolo: Italy travelogue (Rome, Florence, Pisa)

http://www.molon.de/travelogues/Italy/2005/
-- 
Alfred Molon
http://www.molon.de/Galleries.htm
 - Photos from China, Myanmar, Brunei, 
Malaysia, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Nepal, Egypt, Germany, Austria, 
Prague, Budapest, Singapore and Portugal


http://www.molon.de/travelogues/Italy/2005/
"Italy is very expensive place to spend a holiday. We paid 110
Euro/night in a two star hotel in Rome and the same for a three star
hotel in Florence. Food in Italian restaurants was quite expensive
too. Entry tickets, ice-creams, cafes and pubs were also expensive.
Clothes and fashion stuff were instead good value."
[per gli italiani, Alfred ha scritto che Roma costa molto, ma io non
sono d'accordo. Abbiamo litigato molto sul questo punto! Sono andato a
Roma due settimane fa, e non era molto cara. Milano (dove io vivo) é
peggiore a questo proposito!]
No, Roman restaurants are not expensive unless you eat in a touristy
area. In Trastevere the value can be found in almost every restaurant.
Ice creams (gelato) will also be expensive if it's near a tourist
site.
Cafes are expensive if you want to sit down. You save a lot if you
stand at the bar with the locals.
Pubs and bars in Italy are expensive however, as the locals don't
consume alcohol in the amount that the Anglo-saxons, Germans,
Scandinavians, and slavs do. That lower turnover translates into high
prices, yet in the supermarkets, booze is cheap. (I just bought 15
large bottles of quality beer for about €9).
As for the hotels, you can get a good, clean, air conditioned double
for around €30 pp in a centrally located hotel if you look around.
-- 
---
DFM - 
http://www.deepfriedmars.com
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 for around  30 pp in a centrally located hotel if you look around.
If you read out travelogue, you will see that when we arrived in Rome we 
spent three hours looking for a place (double with bath, because we have 
a baby, and not completely out of town). The cheapest place we found 
matching these criteria was a 2 star hotel for 110 Euro/night. 
I might add that before getting to Rome, I called an Italian friend of 
mine who grew up in Rome and is frequently back there. He gave me a list 
of about 6-7 pensions to call once in Rome. These places were also all 
full.
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full.
You should have booked in advance. There are so many turists in Rome:
you can't expect to find a nice, cheap hotel just the day you arrive in
Rome.
I don't think this is different from other touristic cities in Italy and
Europe.

 Europe.
Yep, but what I found over the Internet was more than I was planning to 
spend and I didn't anticipate it would be so tough to find accomodation 
in Rome. Once in Rome however, I booked the hotel in Florence before 
getting there. 
I might add that in almost all places I've been advance booking has 
never been necessary. Seems that Rome is a different place.
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full.
Rome was absolutely packed with tourists when I was there. Much the
same as Paris, Barcelona, Amsterdam, Prague, and London. Sadly it
comes with the territory.


Alfred, I really enjoy your travelogues. They have given me a lot of
good travel advice and ideas (especially where Asia is concerned).
Simone

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:MPG.1d1bd18c...@news.supernews.com...
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 stand at the bar with the locals.
I quickly flipped through Alfred's travelogue and I have to agree with 
both of you: Rome is not as expensive as Milan and maybe even cheaper 
than Florence (but Rome and Florence are full of tourist traps, while 
Milan is full of cool "local" traps) and Naples is even cheaper than 
Rome. As a rule of thumb, southern Italy is cheaper than northern Italy, 
and small towns are cheaper than large cities). 
Prices, nevertheless, have grown higher and higher in the last 4 to 5 
yrs, and "tourist" prices more so. 
Sometimes the owners charge different prices for tourists, I suspect. I'd 
like to check out some places by going in and order something in some 
foreign language. 
Small anectode (sp?): I am a great gelato eater, and some years ago I 
made friends with an elderly couple who ran a small gelateria that was in 
the city centre but off the tourist track: the old lady was simply 
stunned and ashamed that the occasional tourist would draw 10.000 lire 
notes to pay for a 1000 Lire bottle of water. This meant that - in the 
tourist areas - those were the prices. 
A word of advice: do as the Romans (or Florentines, in my case) do: we 
rarely sit down outside cafes, it's not in our costume: we stand at the 
bar, gulp our espresso/ice tea/whatever and leave. For a Muenchner it may 
sound strange, but it's the way it goes. I for one would love to sit down 
outside a cafe somewhere (I should import Biergartens!), but here it's 
simply not reasonable. 
11 eur for 2 iced teas (watered down) is an utter f*cking shame anyway. 
And think they're complaining because tourism is going down.
-- 
QQG
Dopo dieci anni di politica, il suo patrimonio è triplicato, l’Italia si 
ritrova senza il becco di un quattrino e lui ci rinfaccia la gita di 
Pasquetta: un popolo serio l’avrebbe già inseguito col forcone.  (Lia 
Celi)

 I guess that other towns in other parts of europe are expensive too.
guess what ? I (we) have fallen in love with Vienna some years ago and 
return there whenever possible. Munich also. We don't like to stand out as 
tourists, plus the budget is somehow frugal (and we prefer to stay an extra 
week rather than eat out every night), so we often do our shopping and 
cooking, and we regularly shop in markets and supermarkets (buying local 
food). While some 4 or 5 yrs ago Vienna or Munich were definately off the 
price range that we wuold deem as acceptable, prices in Italy have grown so 
much in the last years that now the cost of life is absolutely comparable 
and acceptable, being even cheaper on not-so-few things. 
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 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:Xns96787FE9CB13E...@193.43.96.1...
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 eur including a coffee and a drink.
e sti gran cazzi! Ma sono solo io che mi ricordo che una pizza costava 
7000 lire ? :)
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 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:Xns96789035EF1AE...@193.43.96.1...
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 in big towns for less than 70 eur.
We paid 60 Euro/night in Lucerne for a double at the Ibis hotel in 
April.
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 of course. you must know the language and the rules.
Foreign tourists are at a disadvantage here.
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 simply not reasonable. 
Must be a cultural difference then: we enjoy sitting down in a scenic 
places and have something there. 


 Munich one litre of fresh milk goes for 56 cents.
here it is from 1,20 to 1,50 a litre. See what I meant ?
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 places and have something there. 
it is, indeed. I usually have lunch in the Viktualienmarkt when I'm in 
Munich and the weather allows to. Nice place, reasonable prices, open air. 
The rare tourist is easily spotted by their resilience to the "pay 
something for the glass then bring it back and get your money" mechanism. 
You won't even imagine how many people I met who said beer was as much 
expensive as in Italy. When asked "did you ever bring your glass back ?" 
they went... blank :). 
Unfontunately, we have none (or very little) such places: street food has 
disappeared from Italian (er) streets in the latter quarter of the XX 
century.
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 Celi)
"Lui" sara' Berlusconi, vero? Ho studiato l'italiano all'universita' compe 
materia complementaria fra il '66 ed il '69. Il corso pero' era piu' 
letterario che linguistico - per chi studiava come prima materia la 
letteratura inglese del rinascimento. Parlo un italiano dantesco, io! Lei 
potrebbe mica tradurre in inglese questo testo per noi anglosassoni che non 
capiamo esattamente cosa vuole dire? Ad esempio , cos'e' "il becco di un 
quattrino" oppure "la gita di Pasquetta"? (Quest'ultima frase sembra volere 
dire letteralmente "an Easter Monday trip", ma ovviamente la vera 
significazione e' differente.)
(Request to Quiqueg to translate his sig!!!)
Alan Harrison 

 significazione e' differente.)
"After 10 years in politics, his net worth has tripled, Italy has no 
money (senza il becco di un quattrino) and he makes fun on us 
(rinfaccia?) with the Easter Monday trip: a serious people would have 
gone after him with the pitchfork."
Not sure about the Easter Monday trip either, but essentially on Easter 
Monday Italians usually make a trip to somewhere.
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
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[Mr Berlusconi], whose fortunes have tripled in the last ten years,
whilst he has blamed the problems of the nation's economy on the fact
that people take off a day over Easter. 
A serious populus would have chased after him with a pitchfork by this
stage!
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 for around ?30 pp in a centrally located hotel if you look around.
Where?  I have not found even a single for that price in 10 years.  In
winter on sale we were delighted to find a double for euro 65!
Rome is certainly cheaper than Milano, but it isn't cheap compared to many
other places and countries.  But, what you get for the dough is often
better.  I can eat well in Rome-- two courses with house wine, water and a
coffee-- for euro 20, but if the dollar is at euro 1.30 that's a lot
compared to a sit down chain restaurant meal in the US.
Wandering off to Testaccio or Trastevere for a little trattoria doesn't make
sense for someone touring the ruins or museums.  In the evening that makes
more sense.  For lunch perhaps a panino in a bar would be OK, although I
prefer a better meal at lunch.

Where?  I have not found even a single for that price in 10 years. 
Albergo Lucia, near Termini.
Via Giovanni Amendola 77
PH: +39 06 47 44 722
A single is €40 per night, and a double €60 for two.
It often books out, so book. Rates might be higher as August
approaches. They don't speak much English either.
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 stage!
Thanks, DFM.
Alan H 

 approaches. They don't speak much English either.
Just called and the singles are 45 Euro, the doubles 60 Euro. But no 
single is available until the end of June (at least), and the double 
only from June 23rd onwards. What use is a place which is booked out.
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 viable for people who used to have:
That probably is a result of Italians used to a high inflation with 
always increasing prices and a permanently devaluating currency (the 
Lira). Since there is the Euro, the option to devalue no longer exists, 
so prices keep going up and up.
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only from June 23rd onwards. What use is a place which is booked out.
So they have a double available from next week. Who is going to plan a
trip to Rome with less than a weeks notice? It is high season you
know, and it is undoubtedly one of the most popular cities on earth.
Jeez, you can be a tough customer!


 Jeez, you can be a tough customer!
I travel a lot, but rarely book in advance and never experience 
problems. In Paris, which is much more popular than Rome, it is quite 
easy to find inexpensive accomodation. It's just Rome which has absurd 
prices. 


 Alan Harrison 
Hallo there Alan,
while your Italian is not at all "dantesco", its sound is quite elegant; 
here we would say "Parli come un libro stampato" (you speak like a 
written book). A rough translation of my signature would be: 
"After ten years in Politics, his fortunes are tripled, Italy is broke 
and he blames us for the Easter Monday Trip. A serious country would 
already have chased him with a pitchfork". 
"He" is Berlusconi, correct.
"essere senza il becco di un quattrino" means having absolutely no money. 
I really don't know where the "beak" came out from.
"La gita di Pasquetta" is Literally the Easter Monday trip. It's more or 
less a tradition to go somewhere in the countryside for the first time 
after the winter, on Easter Monday, to consume eggs and roasted lamb. It 
should be a light lunch in a "trattoria" or a "dejuner sur l'herbe", in 
theory. Often it tends to a gargantuan task.
The background for the phrase, which is an excerpt from an article by Lia 
Celi, an Italian journalist and writer (and incidentally the wife of an 
acquaintance) is that, while criticized about the poor state of italian 
economy, Berlusconi blamed the scarce growth of the GNP (we're already in 
a recession, actually) on the fact that - due to Easter Monday - there 
had been 1 workday less. 
A pitchfork would not be enough. 
-- 
QQG
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 -- 
Well, maybe with a child, you;re going to have to start planning ahead. What 
did you do with the baby while you spent 3 hours looking for a place to 
stay?
Marianne 

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:Xns967A33B3A1AC0...@193.43.96.1...
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 had been 1 workday less.
Hmmm, that sounds common enough. It isn't only Italian politicians who drop 
their country in s**t and then blame the workers!
Alan 

 than handwritten books.
Maybe in this case, because I learned Italian in a rather old-fashioned and 
formal way, I speak rather old-fashioned and formal Italian.
Alan 

 >>> di Pasquetta: un popolo serio l'avrebbe gi. inseguito col forcone.
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Alfred,
I find it hard to believe that you would just roll into Rome and "wing it"
like that. I'd be terrified of getting stuck without a room. I always get a
reservation for at least the first night.
Also, it's really a "bummer" that Wind discontinued that 19 Euro/month
unlimited internet option. It was great to be able to sit on the train or in
the hotel and surf (albeit at GPRS speeds) the web to my heart's content. No
hunting around for an Internet cafe' just plug the phone into the computer
and rock and roll for as long as the batteries last.
-- 
Donald Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net

 area. In Trastevere the value can be found in almost every restaurant.
Value, yes; but still not cheap. Last summer we ate in a number of nice
places in Trastevere. All nice experiences, some better than others, but all
more than I wanted to spend. Perhaps my expectations are just unrealisitc.
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 unlimited internet option. 
Maybe they were losing money on it ?
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 Maybe they were losing money on it ?
I don't know about "losing money" but it may have been taking up capacity
that could have been put to more profitable use. A victim of its own
popularity.
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