Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: OT: Ragione e Sentimento

Perdonatemi per questo post OT, ma ce lo mando perchï¿½ non sono riuscito 
a trovare un newsgroup che tratte del dialetto napoletano.
I am enchanted by the voice and emotions in Maria Nazionale's song, 
Ragione e Sentimento, as sung in this youtube version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGPOXPFCCgs
Of course, I get the idea of the song, but the mix of Italian and 
dialect leave me guessing most of the time about the intended meaning. 
So, armed with a Napoletano-Italiano dictionary that I downloaded (
http://www.sbontolo.com/?q=dizionario_napoletano_italiano
 ), I've tried 
to translate the gibberish into English.
A couple of innocent altruists who frequent this newsgroup, not knowing 
the scope of the task, have offered to help with the translation. To 
them I say, you knew not what you were getting into, so even if you help 
with only a few lines, it would be appreciated.
By the way, as I said earlier, I am so unsure in this task that I have 
made wild guesses at times about the meanings of the lyrics. If you 
laugh at what I've done, I will track you down, I will find you, and I 
will make you pay.
Those who are interested can choose to translate into Italian or English 
whatever parts they like, and either email to me, stripping the 
CANCELLARE and NOSPAM from my address, or post here if it doesn't become 
a burden to the newsgroup.
Ok, here's my weak attempt.
Staj chiagnenn nata vot ma pecchï¿½ nullï¿½e lassat?
- Youï¿½re crying  another time, but why donï¿½t you leave?
Tu si scem si cretin,tu si tropp nammurat
- Youï¿½re an idiot, a cretin, you love too much
Quanti voti tu lï¿½aspiett ma nun torna manc'a' nott'?
- How many times do you wait but he doesnï¿½t return all night?
Nunï¿½tï¿½accuorgj ca ti miett' comu fossi nï¿½ cappott'?
- You donï¿½t realize that he uses you as if you were an overcoat?
Cagna tutt e ser o liet, quantu ï¿½i corna ca ta fatt.
- Bitch every evening heï¿½s glad how many horns heï¿½s given you (how many 
times heï¿½s betrayed you)
Ca staj mali siï¿½neï¿½ fott', nunï¿½ o ï¿½ vidi ki ta fatt'.
- You are sick and fucked up, you donï¿½t see what heï¿½s done to you
ï¿½ arrogante e prepotente chillu ï¿½'nfam'e'nï¿½omm ï¿½ nient...
- Heï¿½s arrogant and overbearing, how he disgraces you, your name is nothing
Chill e surd nun te sent' nun ï¿½ tteni i sentiment'...
- Itï¿½s so absurd, he doesnï¿½t feel for you or have affection for you
MA IO QUESTï¿½UOMO LO AMO
- But this man, I love him
Puru lï¿½uocchiï¿½ sa pigliat' pi stu ommo sï¿½ cecat'
- Although your eyes can see, of this man you are blind
E NU MA SENT R'E' PERDERL'
- And I canï¿½t stand losing him
Man' e piedi tï¿½attaccat' staj campann ncantï¿½nat
- By hands and feet he hangs on you, you are bewitched
TUTTA ME STESSA LO AMA
- With all of my self I love him
Moralmente tï¿½ha distrutt nunï¿½ o ten oï¿½ cor mï¿½piett
- Morally heï¿½s destroyed you without tenderderness of heart or pity
PIï¿½ Lï¿½ESSENZA RA VITA
- Heï¿½s the essense of my life
Commu fussi ciucculat r'oce r'oce t'a' manciat'
- As if you were a chocolate candy heï¿½s eaten you
TERRIBILMENTE LO AMO
- I love him terribly
Sempre ca television ti trascur c'o' pallon'
- Always with the television he neglects you for the ball game
E' FUOCO CA M' FA ARD' R'
- Heï¿½s the fire that makes my passion
Mo tï¿½appicc e mo t jet comm' fuss' sigarett'
- He lights you then throws you away like you were a cigarette
DA' CAPA O PERI IO LO AMO
- From head to trunk (foot) I love him
Quant ï¿½ ser lï¿½aj aspettat quant pal keï¿½ pigliat...
- How many evenings have you waited for him, how little regard he has
E NUN ME VOGLIU STUTAï¿½ï¿½.
- And I donï¿½t want to cut it off
Ma pï¿½che c tien ancora si chist'omm' ï¿½ senza cori?
- But why do you still hold onto this man without a heart?
P'chï¿½?
- Why?
Scema! A chi aspietti po' lassï¿½?
- Idiot! Just wait soon heï¿½ll leave you
MA IO LO AMO
- But I love him
Chilla ï¿½ tutta nï¿½famitï¿½
- That one is a complete villain
SO Nï¿½AMMURAT'
- Iï¿½m in love
Guarda mo sta cu chella la
- Youï¿½ll see now if he doesnï¿½t go
E IO Oï¿½ PERDONO
- And I forgive him
Rï¿½opp' ti torna a tuzullia
- Then return to you like a rash
MA IO LO AMO
- But I love him
Ven' fa ammor e sinni vaï¿½
- Come to make love and then go
SO Nï¿½AMMURAT
- Iï¿½m in love
Torna pï¿½ke teni kiffï¿½
- He returns to do what he wants
E IO Oï¿½ PERDON
- And I forgive him
Esce e pierd' o fiat po' chiammï¿½
- He goes out and out of breath he calls
T'a' stutat tutt ï¿½ luc sï¿½ rubat' o segn'e' croci
- Heï¿½s cut you off completely and robbed the sign and cross
Quannu parli nun tï¿½ sente nun tï¿½ fa nu cumpliment'
- When you speak he doesnï¿½t hear, he doesnï¿½t give you compliments
Nun tï¿½ porta nu regal pï¿½ke eï¿½ tropp' materiale
- He doesnï¿½t bring you a gift because heï¿½s too materialistic
Nun sparagna na guajiona ï¿½ nu piezz e mascalzon'
- You donï¿½t separate from this man , heï¿½s a piece and rascal
MA IO QUESTï¿½UOMO LO AMO
- But this man I love him
Tu staj siempri trascurat' iss ï¿½ siempr' nï¿½guvuttat'
- You are always neglected and always admonished
E NUMMï¿½A SENT RO PERDï¿½R
- And I feel only lost
Tu nu vo' sentï¿½ raggiuni, si nï¿½ scema nun si buon'
- You donï¿½t want to listen to reason, youï¿½re an idiot and it isnï¿½t good
DA' CAPA O PERI IO LO AMO
- From head to trunk (foot) I love him
Miett tropp' sentiment ma nunï¿½ ti rï¿½man nient'
- You give too much feeling but he leaves you nothing
E NUN ME VOGLIU STUTAï¿½ï¿½.
- And I donï¿½t want to cut it off
Ogni cosa fa na guerra e ti mett' sotto terra...
- He makes an argument of everything and puts you under the ground
P'chï¿½?
--  Why?
Scema! A chi aspietti po' lassï¿½?
- Idiot! Are you waiting for him to leave you?
MA IO LO AMO
- But I love him
[Continua...]
Chilla ï¿½ tutta nï¿½famitï¿½
SO Nï¿½AMMURAT'
Guarda mo sta ku kella la
E IO Oï¿½ PERDONO
Rï¿½opp' ti torna a tuzullia
MA IO LO AMO
Ven' fa ammor e sinni vaï¿½
SO Nï¿½AMMURAT
Torna pï¿½ke teni kiffï¿½
E IO Oï¿½ PERDON
Esce e pierd' o fiat po' chiammï¿½
Staj chiagnenn nata vot ma pecchï¿½ nullï¿½e lassat?
Tu si scem si cretin,tu si tropp nammurat
Quanti voti tu lï¿½aspiett ma nun torna manc'a' nott'
Nunï¿½tï¿½accuorgj ca ti miett' comu fossi nï¿½ cappott'
Cagna tutt e ser o liet, quantu ï¿½i corna ca ta fatt.
Ca staj mali siï¿½neï¿½ fott', nunï¿½ o ï¿½ vidi ki ta fatt'.

 ha scritto nel 
messaggio news:hc4k87$j54$1...@news.eternal-september.org...


 - How many times do you wait but he doesn�t return all night?
I think the transcription should be 'a nott, not a' nott.
manc' 'a nott = not even at night (manca [neanche] la notte)
[-]
If you are really interested in Neapolitan music, you can listen to or
download all of the mp3s from 6 of Consiglia Licciardi's albums which
feature mostly Neapolitan music, and there is also a duet she sang with
Roberto Murolo here, "'Sta musica". Licciardi pays tribute to Murolo here
also.
http://tavernini.com/licciardi/index.html
In order to view the lyrics for these 6 albums, you have to go to another
site:
Click on the album cover, then on the song title, and you will open a pdf
file containing the lyrics.
http://www.consiglialicciardi.com/discografia.html
Joe from Massachusetts

 - You are sick and fucked up, you don�t see what he�s done to you
I think "fucked up" is too strong a translation here.
"Fottersi" in the dialect means something like "Farsi del male, recarsi un
danno" in Italian.
Something like "screwed up", but preferably something a bit more poetic, in
English.
I can't thnk of any real obscenities in any Neapolitan songs, but I may be
wrong.
Joe from Massachusetts

 may be wrong.
Here "fottersene" stands for "do not give a f**k". Anyway, as soon as I have 
time, I'll try to help Tony, though I would never ever suggest anyone listen 
to Maria Nazionale :-)


Thanks for the offer mymo. I agree that most of her songs are 'pop'(it's 
a shame that she wastes her voice on them), but to listen to this 
particular song and not be moved, you must be colder and more cynical 
than even I am.

 Ok, here's my weak attempt.
No...wait a minute. I know Italian much better than you do but I can't 
understand a single line of this song! I can't believe you actually managed 
to understand it and translate it, I mean...I'm so jealous! And I hate you 
:(((
J.

 to understand it and translate it, I mean...I'm so jealous! And I hate you 
Ma � un odio che dolce a me! Comme fussi ciucculat r'oce r'oce t'o'manciat'
Seriously, I'm surprised but I'm sure that you understood some of it. 
Unless you think that I transcribed the song by ear, let me reassure you 
and restore your pride by telling you that was not the case. I found the 
written lyrics online, and then attempted to translate them with the 
help of said dictionary Napoletano-Italiano. There were a few lines that 
I understood by just hearing them (la parte di sentimento pi� della 
parte di ragione), but I could not have transcribed the lyrics so well 
by ear.
Oh, here's another excuse: It may be the inaccuracy of my Italian itself 
that permits better guessing of variations of the language. OK, I don't 
really believe that, but I'm sure the inaccuracy of the translation will 
be revealed soon enough.

 - And I feel only lost
Non me la sento di perderlo
HTH,
-- 
Anna

- You give too much feeling but he leaves you nothing
and there's nothing left for you 

 much as I agree that most of her songs are a total waste,
...are total waste. But I'm sure there're tons of mistakes, so I'd better 
not read this post again :-)

 Tu esci e perdi il fiato per chiamarlo
No, scusa, come dice mymo, /lui/ esce e tu sprechi fiato a chiamarlo
-- 
Anna

 wrote in message
news:A4nFm.85480$1s6....@twister2.libero.it...

I think you are missing the point.
In the US, "f**k" is a powerful, offensive obscenity.
If Maria Nazionale sang this song in English, with your translation, she
would not be allowed to sing it on American television.
Recently, on the Saturday Night Live TV program, which is broadcast live, a
female cast member slipped up and used the phrase "f**ked up". There was
talk about bringing a formal complaint agains NBC for allowing the phrase,
but most people in the viewing audience probably missed hearing it, or
thought they had misundersood what she had said, so the matter was dropped.
Joe from Massachusetts

Joseph Curtin wrote:

In my opinion "io me ne fotto" is as obscene as "I don't give a f**k", since 
in Italian you can range from the polite "non mi interessa" to the mentioned 
phrase going through the slightly more direct "non me ne importa" and the 
very colloquial "non me ne frega". I can't think of a hevier word than 
"fottersene" to convey that somebody doesn't care about something, indeed 
Nazionale's song is not a masterpiece of elegance as the old songs were in 
their heyday. 



Quoto mymo dalla A alla Z. Aggiungo un paio di colorite variazioni sul tema
"I don't give a f**k": "Me ne sbatto le p**le / il ca**o / i cog**oni"
Il testo della canzone di Maria � qualcosa di semplicemente orrendo :)
-- 
Anna

 Il testo della canzone di Maria � qualcosa di semplicemente orrendo :)
Vorrei ringraziare tutti che mi hanno dato una mano per tradurre le 
parole di questa canzone, specialmente a quelli che si obbligavano 
l'impresa difficile di tenersi chiuso il naso mentre digitare.
Per me era molto divertente.

 wrote in message
news:ihpn27x5kak9$.jiyqgqghdqqk$.dlg@40tude.net...

In Italy, the newspapers can, and do, say "lo stato se ne fotte della
Campania", but a newspaper in the US can't say "the government doesn't give
a f**k about New Jersey" without using asterisks. How, then, do you
translate such a phrase into English so that it can be printed in the
newspapers without bleeping it?
Joe from Massachusetts

 Campania",
Never ever read the verb fottere in an Italian newspaper!
ciao, Janis 

 newspapers without bleeping it?
Come Janis, neppure io ho mai letto una frase simile su un giornale
italiano. Sicuramente non nei titoli, almeno. Forse nel corpo
dell'articolo, riportando le parole di un cittadino esasperato.
E' comunque vero che, specialmente nel napoletano, 'fottersene' � pi� usato
e percepito come meno volgare di "give a f**k". C'� anche una canzone di
Pino Daniele intitolata "Che te ne fotte", e non � mai stata
particolarmente censurata alla radio nazionale.
Doesn't give a stuff?
Doesn't give a fig?
Doesn't give a hang?
Doesn't give a damn?
Doesn't give a rat's ass?
Doesn't give a hoot?
Doesn't give a toss?
Usando una di queste, per�, l'impressione sar� che la frase originale fosse
qualcosa come "non gliene frega un piffero" :-)
Ah, la traduzione, quest'impresa impossibile! ;)
-- 
Anna


Coarse language in the media, whether it be Italian or American, is much
more prevalent now than a few decades ago. Twenty years ago, no one dared
say the word "ass" on television in the US, but it is common now.
My only point is that you can't easily translate a phrase which is not taboo
in public discourse in the source language with a phrase which is absolutely
taboo in public discourse in the target language. Even within the confines
of dialogue in a novel, the translation would depend upon who is doing the
talking in the original language.
I don't ever remember seeing a translation of Beppe Grillo's "'Vaffanculo'
(or 'Vaffa') day". Some things are best left in the original.
http://www.corriere.it/politica/08_novembre_11/firme_referendum_grillo_3dadb2b0-b004-11dd-981c-00144f02aabc.shtml
Joe from Massachusetts

 
http://www.corriere.it/politica/08_novembre_11/firme_referendum_grillo_3dadb2b0-b004-11dd-981c-00144f02aabc.shtml
S�, meglio l'original. IMO questo � reso intraducibile dal fatto che BG ha
usato 'day', e non giorno o giornata, per farne automaticamente un marchio
internazionale :)
-- 
Anna

 wrote in message
news:sdrqs3iu48jf.x4f54s7j9vqq$.dlg@40tude.net...

In the US newspapers, whether the words are quoted or are the original words
of the journalist, certain words are absolutely taboo, and will be
"asterisked" or referred to by use of letters to avoid offending the
reader -  "the 's' word" (s**t), "the 'f' word" (f**k), "the 'c' word"
*c**t), etc.
�and he actually said the famous four-letter word that The Times has not
printed in the 125 years of its publishing life.''�
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/29/magazine/the-way-we-live-now-8-29-04-on-language-letteracy.html
Joe from Massachusetts

 wrote in message
news:XF_Fm.76602$lR3....@newsfe25.iad...

Of course, this "letteracy" can sometimes be misinterpreted. "F**k" is a
taboo word in authentic Chinese restaurants, but it's not the "f**k" we
normally think of as taboo.
Joe from Massachusetts

 
Mi pare che una volta il Corriere puntinava la parola "culo"
in "c...".
-- 
A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is
shining and wants it back the minute it begins to rain.
    -- Mark Twain


Meglio "cu." per differenziarlo da "ca."?
Joe from Massachusetts

 - You give too much feeling but he leaves you nothing
no he leaves you nothing, e' impersonale:  non ti rimane niente!


ehehe caro amico,  per un americano le nostre espressioni colorite ed
idiomatiche sono molto particolari, comunque e' vero meglio sentire la
classica napoletana:)

 passione
Secondo me significa semplicemente che ritorna a infastidirla (a 
tuzzuliarla)... 


bravo si e' questa la migliore interpretazione, cavolo il napoletano
e' bello,  che diamine potrebbe essere la citta' piu' bella del
mondo.il
 famoso te vengo 'a tuzziula, ma vengo 'a cerca, stai semp in
tredici, te vaco truvann, mamma guarda che ciccio mi tocca. che
meraviglia, peccato che in genere gli stranieri non possano capire
Toto', o Eduardo , lLbero bovio,  fortuna che il genio umano si
manifesta in mille forme in tutto il mondo

 wrote in message
news:c8b95001-986c-437f...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
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
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I see on TV that only 18% of Italians think dialects should be taught in
schools, which makes sense to me, because the dialect comes from the streets
and the piazzas and the markets, not from the schools. Who would teach the
dialect?
I met many people in Naples who would not allow the dialect to be spoken in
their homes.
When I was in Naples, I took a few courses in the Italian language through
the University of Maryland. My professor was a native Neapolitan who had
studied in the US, had married an American woman, and returned to Naples
after receiving his Ph.D. to teach Italian to Americans for the University
of Maryland. The professor was a little snobbish, and never talked about his
Neapolitan roots. He never spoke in dialect, or talked about the dialect. He
always spoke to me in Italian, never in English. We were good friends, and I
used to like to remind him that he was a Neapolitan, in my own peculiar way.
The way in which I would remind Dr. G. of his Neapolitan origins was this:
whenever I saw him in the hall when I arrived at school, I would walk up to
him and greet him. He would see me coming and cringe, and look around and
hope that the other Americans wouldn't hear the terrible words which he knew
were coming, and which he didn't like to hear. I would walk up to him and
say in a cheerful voice the two terrible words which brought him to his
knees: "Ue, dotto' !".
Joe from Massachusetts

 dotto' !".
ROTFL! Sai che molti miei amici scrivono "We" al posto di "U�"? Li farei a 
pezzettini solo per quello. 

 wrote in message
news:zREJm.91398$1s6....@twister2.libero.it...
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Southern Italian speakers are much more expressive physically.
I can remember being on a bus in downtown Naples, when I looked out the
window and happened to see two young girls who appeared to be about 16 years
old engaged in an animated conversation while waiting at a bus stop. One of
them was holding a large package under one arm, and while she spoke, she
gestured with her free arm, but perhaps because one arm was restricted, she
seemed to be compensating by using her whole body to express herself -
swaying, rocking, leaning, using her legs and hips to communicate with her
friend, in motions that almost seemed like a graceful dance.
If you take the baton away from a Maestro, he will find some other way to
communicate his feelings to the orchestra.
Joe from Massachusetts

 passione
_prurito_, volevi dire forse :)
-- 
Anna

 knees: "Ue, dotto' !".
ahahaha
well this is an interesting point.
the dialect should not taught in the schools of course, but one should
consider that is the soul of the masses, the real and genuine
expression of the people that live in a country.Naples is an
historical city, and this stout cultural inherithance is well
reflected in his wonderful dialect. Paradoxically the dialects are
used in every part of world by the less articulate users of the
language, and this of course can partially justify the blame of the
professor. However "Ue' dotto" is outstanding indeed

 wrote in message
news:3a3191ff-2bac-40a5...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...

ahahaha

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It seems that the average man knows how to put a person in his place. Anyone
who wears an expensive suit is put down by calling him a "commendato'" or a
"cavalie'", and in the military, all pretentious soldiers are "marescia'".
Joe from Massachusetts