Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: to admitt to doing

Ho incontrato questa forma, e me la sono trascritta in quanto non
l'avevo sentita prima (mi pare).
Dopo il to il 99% dei casi mi aspetterei un bare infinite, tranne nel
caso in cui to sia una particella, nel qual caso mi aspetterei una
ing-form.
C'è però da dire che l'unica forma del secondo caso che io conosca sia
"to be used to": "I was used to doing my homework first ". Non me ne
vengono in mente altre.
Quindi questa forma, dal punto di vista grammaticale, la metto in
questi casi.
Non mi ricordo la frase completa iniziale, ma basta cercare "used to
-ing" sul web per degli esempi.
Che significa "He admitted to getting frustrated and angry at the
things his wife did" ?
"Ammise di diventare frustrato ed arrabbiato per le cose che sua
moglie faceva" ?
Qual è la logica dietro? In questo caso per esempio l'azione è
continuata, quindi parzialmente si intuisce il bisogno dell'-ing form.
Io avrei pensato ad uning-form passato, che in inglese si preferisce
sostituire con quella semplice, quindi in questo caso un po' l'avrei
capito.
Ma la regola non mi sembra possa essere questa.
Ciao

 continuata, quindi parzialmente si intuisce il bisogno dell'-ing form.
Ma non ha niente a che fare con l'azione che continua o non continua.
Tu ti stai confondendo con i tempi "progressive" o "continuous" come il
present continuous, past continuous ecc.  To + ~ing non e' un tempo
"continuous" .  E' semplicemente la prepostizione to seguita dal
gerundio.
ari

> Qual č la logica dietro?
[...]
Maybe because it's a verb used as a noun.
"I do confess to being guilty." -> "Sě, confesso di essere (=
l'essere) colpevole."
"I don't object to going to the pub." -> "Non ho obiezioni ad andare
(=all'andare) al pub."
"She is committed to helping the poor." -> "Si impegna ad aiutare (=
nell'aiutare , nell'aiuto ai) i poveri."
I think the same applies for other [verb] + [preposition] + [ing form]
constructions...
"I won't stop you from joining the Army. -> Non ti impedirň di
arruolarti (=l'arruolarti , l'arruolamento) nell'Esercito."
"He succeeds in doing whatever he wants." - > "Riesce a fare(= nel
fare) con successo qualsiasi cosa voglia." 
"I'll punish the boy for spitting in the street." -> "Punirň il
ragazzo per aver sputato (= l'aver sputato , lo sputo) per strada."

gerundio.
Va beh, no lo siento, that's it.

constructions...
Questo è scontato. Dopo quel to si mette l'ing proprio perché è una
preposizione, e non un to della forma dell'infinito, che è sempre
presente tranne nei verbi retti dai modali.
Ma comunque sia non lo sento, e non riesco a capire.
Vabbè, continuerò ad evitare di usare queste forme, per non
sbagliarmi.
Ancora non riesco a capire la logica dietro.

 Ancora non riesco a capire la logica dietro.
IMHO la logica c'è, anche se è sfuggente e diversa da quella che
usiamo nelle costruzioni italiane... :)

Si usa la forma con "to + -ing" quando il verbo che la regge fa
Già non è esatto, in quanto non esiste una "forma" "to+ing". Esistono
i verbi che reggono delle preposizioni, le quali tutte reggono la
forma in -ing. Esistono verbi che reggono delle infinitive, le quali
richiedono l'uso del to+bare inf.
Nno mi convince molto il tuo discorso.
Vabbè, grazie cmq.
ciao :-)

 ciao :-)
Prego! :)
-- 
Enrico C
Make Laugh, Not War!

 pretended to be guilty.". 
Non la farei molto complicata: in italiano "ammetti/riconosci qualcosa",
in inglese you "admit to something". Ovvio che quel "something", quando
diventa verbo, sia un "x-ing". Sei d'accordo?
[...]
Ciao, FB
-- 
Oggetto: Guido, i' vorrei che tu e Lapo ed io. Fossimo presi per
incantamento.
Incantato s'è incantato.
(pecora nera su it.cultura.libri)

 diventa verbo, sia un "x-ing". Sei d'accordo?
Sono d'accordo per l'inglese... però non vedo equivalenza con
l'italiano. In italiamo diciamo, usando la medesima costruzione,
"ammetti qualcosa", "pensi qualcosa", "fingi qualcosa" e "vuoi
qualcosa". In inglese la costruzione cambia, [prep. + -ing form] nei
primi due casi, [to + forma base] negli ultimi due. 


Perché, nella sostanza?
Non mi sembra attendibile, mi sembra tirato un po' :-)))

diventa verbo, sia un "x-ing". Sei d'accordo?
Perché è "someth-ING"? :-))))))))

 wrote in message
news:y5lp8dnhnyiq$.dlg@news.lillathedog.net...

In English I can say:
"I admit my mistake".
"I admit to making a mistake".
In Italian I can say:
"Ammetto il mio errore".
"Ammetto di aver fatto un errore".
The constructions seem the same in both languages.
Joe from Massachusetts

 The constructions seem the same in both languages.
But then, you can't say "I want to a beer." or "I want to drinking a
beer.", while in Italian you can say "Voglio una birra" e "Voglio bere
una birra". 


 on
it.cultura.linguistica.inglese :

Beh, io ci ho provato, a tirarci fuori una logica...
Altrimenti tocca impararli a memoria ;)




Che si dice "I start writing at six o'clock" lo impari proprio a memoria,
no?
Ciao, FB
-- 
"Are you sure an embryo parson should have a plane?"
"Everyone should have a plane!"
(Cold Comfort Farm, the film)

 costruzioni.
One more, I hope this proves my point :)
 
to condemn
"You have just turned around and done what you condemn others of
doing."
"Shane, are you willing to do the fighting in this war, or are you
just willing to condemn others to do the fighting for you?"
[da Google]

 wrote in message
news:gfgrro0w...@news.lillathedog.net...

You're mixing verbs which are followed by a prepostition and a gerund,
from previous examples, with simple infinitives.
http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/verblist.htm
"I want (to drink) a beer".
Joe from Massachusetts

 "I want (to drink) a beer".
How could you tell which is which, if you didn't know them by heart?
My guess is that in English there is a [hidden?] logic... 
So, I wonder, when do you use the verb [+ Object] + infinitive forms,
as in "She agreed to speak before the game." and "Everyone expected
her to win."  ?
I noticed that "to agree" and "to expect" are verbs expressing a will
or a wish of the subject, while the following infinitive is the
result, or hoped result, of that state of mind.
Accordingly, all the verbs in the first list, for instance, can be
used to express some sort of will, wish, request, hope, intention, or
ability...  about an action that is to be done...
Verbs Followed by an Infinitive
"She agreed to speak before the game."
agree
aim
appear
arrange
ask
attempt
be able
beg
begin
care
choose
condescend
consent
continue
dare
decide
deserve
detest
dislike
expect
fail
forget
get
happen
have
hesitate
hope
hurry
intend
leap
leave
like
long
love
mean
neglect
offer
ought
plan
prefer
prepare
proceed
promise
propose
refuse
remember
say
shoot
start
stop
strive
swear
threaten
try
use
wait
want
wish 
On the contrary, when a verb is followed by a preposition and a gerund
(last list), it usually expresses some sort of feeling or
acknowledgement about an action that is either already finished or, at
least, fully conceived as an idea... and it is *not* the
[hoped/possible] result of our present state of mind, but something we
feel/think about...
Verbs Followed by a Preposition and a Gerund
"We concentrated on doing well."
admit to
approve of
argue about
believe in
care about
complain about
concentrate on
confess to
depend on
disapprove of
discourage from
dream about
feel like
forget about
insist on
object to
plan on
prevent (someone) from
refrain from
succeed in
talk about
think about
worry about
Does all that make any sense? :)

 wrote in message
news:9ro05jqn...@news.lillathedog.net...

I see no point in creating or memorizing such a list. If there is a
general rule, it already exists, and you have read it somewhere. If
there is no general rule, there must be a reason why it doesn't
exist - namely, that there is no rule, because of the exceptions. To
attempt to make up a rule serves no purpose.
You have the verb "to try" on your list. I can say "I tried building a
scale model", and "I tried to build a scale model". Swann would
suggest that the first is a general statement about scale models in
general, and the second is a specific attempt at building a scale
model, and I would agree, but only to a certain point.
It is more complicated than that. It sounds correct to me to say "Try
building a scale model of the Leaning Tower of Pisa, and let me know
how it turns out". If I said "Try to build" here instead of "Try
building", it would not sound right to me, unless I were almost
commanding someone to build a model. On the other hand, if someone
said "Try to build a scale model of my experimental airplane and I
will sue you in Court" sounds more correct to me than if I used "Try
building", although I can imagine both forms being used.
Joe from Massachusetts

 building", although I can imagine both forms being used.
Yep, I think I get it. :)
But what about a distinction between Verbs followed by Infinitive and
Verbs followed by a Prepostition and a Gerund_


 wrote in message
news:15qw631b...@news.lillathedog.net...

I can only say that I have never compiled any of these lists (in
English or in any other language), or felt any need to refer to one.
There are so many exceptions that it would seem a futile task, and
personal preference and idiom also enter into the picture.
When I translate from Italian to English, I don't look for the way in
which an item complies with rules, obscure or common. I look at the
context in which an individual item appears.
Some students of Italian try to follow general rules for the
conjugation of Italian verbs, but I think that each verb is learned
individually. Indeed, errors in verb conjugation are caused, more
often than not, by applying rules to a verb which is an exception to
the rule being applied. If there are some general rules, they may be
useful for describing aspects of the language, but not very useful for
learning the language. For example, if you asked me what the four
general conjugation groups for Italian verbs are, I would have to
think about it for a while, since I have never found this
categorization particularly useful in my study of the Italian
language. You don't consciously open a table of verb conjugations and
choose a form when you want to use an irregular verb. Again, there are
too many exceptions to depend on rules and tables. Although If you
make a mistake, you always have these deficient rules to blame for
your error.
If you compile a list, how do you know it is complete, or correct?
Would the compilation of such lists be more productive than reading
and translating every word on a few pages of an issue of  the
"Economist" or the "Times"?
But if you insist on tables, doesn't Swann have these sorts of lists
already compiled?
Joe from Massachusetts

 already compiled?
Thomson-Martinet probably does, but I can't check since I've got such a
stomach ache I think I'll go to bed and die there.
Bye, FB
-- 
Togliti le fette di salame dagli occhi, sergio.
Non sono nemmeno Kasher...
(Gavriel Katav su it.cultura.ebraica)

 already compiled?
*Now* EFL learners need to learn long lists of verbs by heart. Or,
more likely, they learn each verb individually. In both cases, it
involves lots of verbs to memorize. And when students run into a verb
they haven't studied before, they are left with no clue on how to use
it.
I am suggesting they can try pure logic instead. 
*If* that works (bif IF), ISTM it would be easier. :)
-- 
Enrico C
* cut the ending "cut-togli.invalid" string when replying by email *

 building", although I can imagine both forms being used.
Un altro caso simile potrebbe essere: "to have no way to know" / "to
have no way of knowing". Su Google si incontrano entrambe le forme, ma
*forse* con una preferenza per "to know" quando si parla del futuro,
per "of knowing" quando si parla di notizie attuali o passate o con
riferimento a un episodio specifico...
Per esempio, cercando sul sito 
bbc.co.uk
, si trova:
"There was no way to know when the Protectors of Albion would next be
needed."
www.bbc.co.uk/cult/ghosts/astray/epilogue.shtml
"There is no way to know which part of Assad's legacy will be adopted
by his son, Bashar, or how he intends to overcome the pockets of
resistance in Syria." 
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/not_in_website/syndication/monitoring/media_reports/786293.stm
 
"I am a fan of Lance, but this early in the race, there is no way to
know who will avoid the unfortunate accident, or who will capitalize
on the unexpected."
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/4104284.stm
 
"There was, however, no way of knowing whether it was faulty - not
without taking it out again."
www.bbc.co.uk/ouch/columnists/damon/301003.shtml
 -
"The crew had no way of knowing about the nature of the fire nor any
means of fighting it." 
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/905276.stm
 - 
"Peabody, who was recording something well outside his usual
expertise, had no way of knowing it, but he was transcribing the birth
of an art form."
www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1095248
 

 wrote in message
news:t50jlymrbc9g$.dlg@news.lillathedog.net...

My personal preference would be the second form, probably because the
first "just doesn't sound nice".  :>)
Joe from Massachusetts

 Joe from Massachusetts
But, would you say "I have no way of knowing who will win tomorrow's 
race."? 
I would rather like "I have no way to know who will win tomorrow's 
race.". But I am no native speaker :)
-- 
Enrico C
''In the eyes of a cat, all things belong to cats.'' - English Proverb


I personally would without exception choose "no way of knowing" over
"no way to know" in this sentence. I wouldn't say "no way to know" is
incorrect, only that I would never use it. Google gives the advantage
to my preference by a factor of about 2 to 1, so I am not alone.
Joe from Massachusetts