Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Batman Begins' line

Hello everybody,
I need an explanation about the use of a verb tense in one of the final 
lines in "Batman Begins":
Rutger Hauer's character: "Fox, I seem to remember firing you"
Morgan Freeman's one: "You did"
I haven't understood the first one: why not "I seem to remember having 
fired you"? 
Thank you very much.
Bye
-- 
P. Paolo

 fired you"? 
Dice lo Swan:
"Some verbs can be followed by either an -ing form or an infinitive,
usually with a difference of meaning."
Tra questi verbi c'è 'remember'.
"With 'remember', 'forget', 'stop', 'go on' and 'regret', the difference is
connected with time. The -ing form *refers to things that happen earlier*
(/before/ the remembering, forgetting, etc. take place); the infinitive
refers to things that happen /after/ the remembering, etc.
Remember + -ing = remember what one has done, or what has happened.
Es. I shall always remember meeting you for the first time.
Remember + infinitive = remember what one has to do
Es. Remember to go to the post office! (Michael Swan, Practical English
Usage)
HTH,
-- 
Anna

 Tra questi verbi c'è 'remember'.
Però lui non parlava di infiniti, ma di due diverse "-ing forms", una
presente e una passata:
- "I seem to remember firing you"
- "I seem to remember having fired you"
Anche a me suona più naturale la seconda, ma forse solo perché
somiglia di più a come lo direi in italiano: "mi pareva di AVERti
licenziATO" (non "*mi pareva di licenziARti").
--
Cingar

Il Tue, 31 Mar 2009 02:36:36 -0700 (PDT), 
cingar.s...@libero.it
 ha
scritto:

Come dice lo Swan, e come ho scritto, "The -ing form *refers to things that
happen earlier*(/before/ the remembering, forgetting, etc. take place)."
La forma in -ing dopo 'remember' si riferisce a qualcosa che è accaduto in
precedenza, *nel passato*, rispetto al momento in cui si ricorda. Dunque se
il verbo 'remember', come nell'esempio di P.Paolo, è al presente, sarà
seguito da una semplice forma in -ing. Perché in inglese si fa così, anche
se in italiano si fa diversamente. :)
-- 
Anna

 wrote in message 
news:4z5x37oi558v.1cfg7hgk3s3gb$.dlg@40tude.net...

'I remember thinking about this before'
'I remember having thought about this before'
I was originally going to answer the OP by saying that 'I seem to remember 
having fired you' was wrong , because it was very unlikely that he was 
remembering , not the occasion when he said 'You're fired' (=I remember 
firing you') , but the state of having fired him ; however , when I tried to 
define the use of 'having done something' , I became uncertain , and waited 
for someone else to respond .
The fact is that we do use sentences like 'I remember having told you more 
than once not to do that' , and I think it's quite possible that you might 
hear a native speaker say 'I seem to remember having fired you'! The form 
'having verbed' exists , of course , and is extremely common  both in 
adjectival and nominal uses (i.e. as participle and gerund) , though I don't 
even know the grammatical name for either form . Though the distinction 
becomes elusive when I try to pin it down , I think that basically it is 
that 'I remember verb-ing' focuses on a specific occasion or incident , 
whereas 'I remember having verbed' is more general ; e.g. 'I remember 
telling you' would suggest I recall a specific occasion when I told you , 
whereas 'I remember having told you' suggests that I recall that I have told 
you , without focussing on (or even being able to remember) the specific 
occasion . So 'I remember having thought about this before' conveys the idea 
that I know I've thought about this before [in this case I haven't!] without 
recollecting exactly when .
Theoretically , if you can use the gerund form 'verb-ing' after 'remember' , 
then you can also use the past gerund form (whatever it's name really is) 
'having verbed' ; logically , it might seem superfluous , but I think there 
is a nuance of the kind I've attempted to describe .
Mike

 whereas 'I remember having verbed' is more general.
La confusione dell'OP č stata generata dal fatto che in italiano usiamo
sempre il passato, dopo 'ricordare',quando si parla di qualcosa che č
avvenuto in un momento precedente l'atto del ricordare: Ricordo di averti
licenziato un mese fa, ricordo di averti ripetuto quella cosa mille volte,
ricordo di averti battuto a tennis (una sola volta o mille volte, č sempre
"averti battuto" e non "batterti"). Una volta fissata e compresa questa
differenza tra l'uso italiano e l'uso inglese, si puň ragionare sulla
distinzione che fai tu. Speriamo che l'OP abbia le idee piů chiare, ora :) 
-- 
Anna

 distinzione che fai tu. Speriamo che l'OP abbia le idee piů chiare, ora :) 
Maybe it may help to think of "Ricordo il mio correre per ore nei 
boschi" and "Ricordo il mio aver corso per ore nei boschi".
I'm not sure it's 100% Italian, though...
Kiuhnm

 HTH,
Ti ringrazio molto: chiarissimo :))
-- 
P. Paolo