Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: "Be seeing you"

È un saluto di commiato comunemente usato?
-- 
oggi no, domani sì

 Č un saluto di commiato comunemente usato?
Negli USA, si'.
"I'll be seeing you."
"Be seeing you."
"Be seein' ya."
"See ya later." (Alligator :)
"See ya."
"Ciao" (this has become very popular)
-- 
The foregoing is my opinion, and my opinion alone. It is intended to
demonstrate modern American English -- colloquial and spoken, (but well
spoken) for the most part; not literary American English. Ergo, caveat
lector. (No, not you, Hannibal)
Oh, if you feel the need to e-mail me, un-not my address first.

 "Ciao" (this has become very popular)
I've heard it in a film. Do you know why you can only say it when you part
from, not when you meet, somebody (while you can in Italian)?
Bye, FB
-- 
L'importante è che risplenda tu, sola primadonna e immarcescibile leggenda
del tuo pianerottolo.
(Lucangel su it.cultura.libri)

 you can in Italian)?
"Ciao" sta diventando popolare in tutto il mondo, pare, 
dall'Argentina alla Croazia ecc.


I've heard it in a film.
Cruel Intentions. 
Sebastiano/mind reader

 Bye, FB
No, I don't know why, but that's true: it's only said in parting here. Is
there some obscure reason with which you will enlighten us, or were you
merely asking out of curiosity?




Sebba, I'm *astounded*. Well, if you understood it at once, "ciao" can't be
*that* widely used in films, can it?
Bye, FB
-- 
Se dico "siedi!" manca l'oggetto.
Siedo chi? Lei o me?
(da it.cultura.linguistica.italiano)

"Ciao" (this has become very popular)
"I'll be seeing you" is also sometimes used as a threat.

 merely asking out of curiosity?
The latter, I'm afraid. I would think Italians did say "hello" to greet
someone (if Italians brought there the word "ciao").


*that* widely used in films, can it?
I heard "stronzo"* in Friends. And "vaffannapoli"**, too. ^_^
Anyway, "ciao" is widely used and widely understood. I remembered Ryan
Phillipe aka Sebastian saying "ciao" in Cruel Intentions because it
was the first time I heard it in English. Cruel Intentions is like the
second movie I've seen in English in my entire life. The first one is
Notting Hill. No idea about the others.
*
Phoebe: Yeah, and maybe that you're a real stronzo.
Erin: I'm sorry?
Phoebe: I guess Italian isn't one of the four languages you speak.
**
Chandler: I walk into a room and he won't even talk to me, he just
mumbles something in Italian. And I know he only knows the bad words.
Joey: (entering) Hey Gunther, have you uh, have you seen Chandler?
Gunther: I thought you were Chandler. But umm, one of who is over
there.
(Joey turns around and sees them kissing.)
Kathy: Oh.
Chandler: Hey Joe.
Joey: Vaffannapoli (Storms out.)
**
Ross: Like 'em, like 'em? Or, I'd like to get store credit for that
amount like 'em?
Rachel: vaffannapoli (it's the same term used by Joey earlier and Joey
nods his approval.)
Sebastiano

Č un saluto di commiato comunemente usato?
Solo nel telefilm "The Prisoner", direi.
-- 
Adam Atkinson (
gh...@mistral.co.uk
)
GIANT WAVES DOWN QUEEN MARY'S FUNNEL

 I would think Italians did say "hello" to greet someone (if Italians brought there the word "ciao").
I mean, Italians who went to the USA.


 Bye, FB
Oh, yes, of course; it was one of the first words my grandparents learned,
I'm sure. But the emergence of "ciao" as a parting word is very recent.
Italian culture and cucina has been very popular here for decades, as you
all know. Recenly though, everyone knows what "gelato" is; most "hip
(young) people" use "ciao" from time to time (but only on taking leave);
espresso, latte (caffelatte, as the discussion earlier pointed out) and a
whole bunch of "chinos" :) as in Moccaccino, Frappuccino, as well as
"macchiato" are in just about every caffein addict's vocabulary. (I gave up
coffee two weeks ago. Ago. Ago. Ago. Ago. And I'm feeling no side-effects.
Effects.)


 Effects.)
I also heard "ciao" used as a parting greeting on a number of German
films. But now it might be because theyu were actually American and dubbed
up in German, so the might have preferred no to trasnlate "ciao". I must
check a little better. In German, however, I also notice a reference to
Italy and the Italian language especially on advertisements, much more
than we Italians use to with the German language. For example, there's an
extensive usage of "issimo" in lots of advertised (pseudo)-Italian food
products, like "kremissimo" and so on.
-- 
questo articolo e` stato inviato via web dal servizio gratuito 
http://www.newsland.it/news
 segnala gli abusi ad 
ab...@newsland.it

 nods his approval.)
ROTFL. Vaffannapoli! I'd never heard of it even in Italian (or do they say
it somewhere?). Definitely, Americans have a natural gift for inventing
new colourful words and expressions, even more than we Italians believed
of ourselves. Perhaps that depends on how wide the "spectrum of
nationalities" of settled immigrants is...


nationalities" of settled immigrants is...
Probably.
Sebastiano

 a parting greeting
A contradiction in terms... I've been told that you only greet someone when
you meet him. When you take leave, you... do something else.
Bye, FB
-- 
"Nasalization is just a part of life"
(Joey DoWop Dee on it.cultura.linguistica.inglese)

 you meet him. When you take leave, you... do something else.
Yes, that's true. I apologise for my terrible mistake


 Yes, that's true. I apologise for my terrible mistake
20 lashes with a wet noodle!  :)
(a fairly common expression)


 20 lashes with a wet noodle!  :)
No more greetings cards then, only parting ones ;)
P.S. I prefer spaghetti, possibly not too wet


 P.S. I prefer spaghetti, possibly not too wet
Ma la pasta asciutta non serve... e' troppo fragile, si rompe facilmente.



Il Picchi dice:
"see you later alligator" "in a while crocodile" (scherz) "ci vediamo,
caimano" "sě, a dopo, vecchio topo"
si usa effettivamente anche la seconda parte? (btw, la traduzione italiana
e' piuttosto discutibile...)



I forgot about the second part (the crocodile!) Thanks for reminding me.
And I love the "translation" into Italian; it shows how one has to be
creative in the translation.
The expressions are both old, from the 50s, maybe, and not much used any
more, but pretty much everyone knows them, so you can use them once in a
while for a joke.
There was another version (that you reminded me of:)
See ya later, alligator.
When your legs are on straighter.
Just nonsense, but it rhymed, and we used it for a while.


while for a joke.
There is also an old rock'n'roll song, and it's from the 50s too:
Well, I saw my baby walkin' with another
man today. 
(Repeat)
When I asked her what's the matter, this
is what I heard her say:
Refrain
See ya later, alligator, after while, crocodile.
(Repeat)
Cain't you see you're in my way now,
Don't you know you cramp my style.
When I thought of what she told me,
nearly made me lose my head,
(Repeat)
But the next time that I saw her, reminded
her of what she said.
(Refrain)
She said, I'm sorry, pretty daddy, you
know my love is just for you.
(Repeat)
Won't you say that you'll forgive me, and
say your love for me is true?
I said, Uh-wait a minute, 'gator, I know
you mean it just for play.
Don't you know you really hurt me, and
this is what I have to say:
(Refrain)
See ya later, alligator, after while, crocodile.
So long, that's all, goodbye.
- See Ya Later, Alligator -  Bill Haley and the Comets
http://stleonard1954.net/seeyoulater.html
'bye

 
http://stleonard1954.net/seeyoulater.html
I remember it!



I've seen this used in German also, spelled "tschau" and we also use
it in Peru (spelled either "chao" or "chau") but only in parting even
though everyone knows it is of italian origin.  When I first came to
Peru I used "chao" for a greeting and everyone stared at me.  Finally,
my sister-in-law asked if I was leaving after just arriving.
-- 
Dale Erwin
Salamanca 116
Pueblo Libre
Lima 21 PERU
Tel. +51(1)461-3084
Cel. +51(1)9743-6439
DALE ERWIN'S OPERA FILES - 
http://www.geocities.com/dale_erwin

 my sister-in-law asked if I was leaving after just arriving.
LOL


 
The first time I heard it was in the '50s (I'm an old f...) in
a joke about three kids playing together.  At dinner time when
they were breaking up and going their separate ways, the anglo
kid says "See ya later, aligator" and the hispanic kid says "In
a while, crocodile" and the black kid says "Aftuh suppuh muhthuh
f...."


 f...."
Were you living in New York then, by any chance? :)


 
No.  Dallas, Texas.  And the person who told the joke was the
black janitor where I worked.  Remember that in those days, in
Texas, Jim Crow was alive and well.


f...."
ROTFL
Sebastiano

No.  Dallas, Texas.
Howdy! ;)
Sebastiano/I love that word

 after just arriving.
Forse un giorno questa usanza (solo per commiato) si 
stabilirà anche da noi in Italia, allora si potrà dire che 
"ciao" non ci appartiene più.
-- 
oggi no, domani sì

 Ma la pasta asciutta non serve... e' troppo fragile, si rompe facilmente.
it will surely sound strange to your ears, but if you come to my town (I
don't know in other areas, though)
if you say "Pasta asciutta" you mean "pasta with salsa" :-))))
by the way I prefer "pasta al dente", that's neither wet nor "dry" :-)

 if you say "Pasta asciutta" you mean "pasta with salsa" :-))))
Sauce instead of salsa, forgive me :)

by the way I prefer "pasta al dente", that's neither wet nor "dry" :-)
And I prefer a "ben cotta" pasta, but having the choice I prefer to
avoid pasta. :)
Sebastiano

 avoid pasta. :)
Sebastiano / Otherwise Known As "Sebastiano who ain't really Italiano"  :)



I think pastasciutta is used all over Italy to mean pasta with a sauce,
as opposed to pastina in brodo.
-- 
Mary



Pastasciutta can have no sauce at all: think of "pasta al burro".
La pastasciutta č pasta (fresca o essiccata) cotta nell'acqua e poi
scolata. Poi uno ci mette quello che gli pare.
Bye, FB
-- 
Se dico "siedi!" manca l'oggetto.
Siedo chi? Lei o me?
(da it.cultura.linguistica.italiano)

 And I prefer a "ben cotta" pasta
Uhm, una crema al cucchiaio?
Ciao, FB
-- 
"Gli americani sono ignoranti per loro stessa natura"
that is "The Americans are naturally ignorant"
(Paolo Bonardi on it.cultura.linguistica)

Sebastiano / Otherwise Known As "Sebastiano who ain't really Italiano"  :)
Damn! ;)
Sebastiano

 Poi uno ci mette quello che gli pare.
Escluso il brodo ;)
-- 
Maria Luisa C - 26/06/2004 21.34.16


A very astute observation.
This usage goes back many years.
Many years ago when I lived in a small town in New Jersey, which was
predominantly Italian, my brother had a group of friends (all
Italian-Americans, who didn't speak Italian) who regularly used "ciao"
as a parting salutation, and only as a parting salutation.
Joe from Massachusetts

 as a parting salutation, and only as a parting salutation.
Don't you know why? By the way, it's interesting that those friends of your
brother's (<== does this make sense?) didn't know Italian: probably that's
why they used "ciao" as an average American would do.



I think it is just difficult for us as Americans, and even for those
Italian-Americans whose parents speak Italian, to imagine using the
same word for "hello" and "goodbye".
And the more I think of it, what they usually said was "ciao for now".
Joe from Massachusetts

 same word for "hello" and "goodbye".
Then, perhaps they had to decide whether to use it in one case or the
other.
Bye, FB
-- 
Io ho deciso di rifiutarmi di vederlo: Ettore con la faccia di Eric Banana
mi fa venire i conati.
(commento sul film "Troy" su it.fan.scrittori.tolkien)

 incontrato frasi simili a quella che ho scritto? 
Friends of your brother's is perfectly acceptable.  Just like
"friends of yours."  And "friends of you" is entirely wrong.


  And "friends of you" is entirely wrong.
That's why I thought that "those friend of your brother" was wrong.
Bye, FB


>>(Quote)Grammarians who study the double possessive have made some
useful observations. The first noun is almost always indefinite ("a
picture of John's," but not "the picture of John's"; "friends of ours"
but not "the friends of ours" or any other specifier). The second noun
is human (or otherwise animate) and definite ("an admirer of hers" is
possible, but "an admirer of the furniture's" is unidiomatic; "of
Jane's" but not "of a woman's").
The combination of indefiniteness and definiteness is not possible
with other constructions: rewriting "friends of ours" into "our
friends" makes "friends" definite, for example. In your case, "John's
nephew" means 'a specific nephew of John's', which is different from
"a nephew of John's," which means 'any nephew of John's'. As former
Oxford English Dictionary editor Robert Burchfield observes, "It is
not easy to explain why such constructions are idiomatic: one can only
assert that they are." (Unquote)>>>
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19990305
"It is not easy to explain why such constructions are idiomatic: one
can only assert that they are."
Sounds like an excuse, not a rule.
Joe from Massachusetts

 it just as right?
Well, it doesn't sound bad to my ear, but based on the fact that
"those friends of you" is wrong, I'm inclined to say that no, it is
not just as right.


 scolata. Poi uno ci mette quello che gli pare.
lana caprina? ;)
sono con Mary, comunemente pastasciutta č qualunque cosa non brodosa



D'accordo, ma non č necessario che ci sia salsa di alcun tipo.
Ciao, FB


 D'accordo, ma non è necessario che ci sia salsa di alcun tipo.
vero; anche perché per me la salsa è quella di pomodoro che metti nelle
bottiglie.
condita a piacimento diciamo anche solo olio

 È un saluto di commiato comunemente usato?
Nella serie TV "The Prisoner", come ha ricordato anche Adam,
"Be seeing you" e` praticamente il saluto ufficiale del Villaggio, 
una delle poche usanze cui No.6 si adegua ;)
Alla fine il tono di quel saluto diventa vagamente minaccioso!
Però mi pare di aver sentito "Be seing you" anche in qualche altro
film o telefilm, ora non ricordo quale.
-- 
Enrico C
"He who controls vocabulary controls thought." (Luigi Wittgenstein)

 always cook it right away. (And eat it right away!)
"Fettuccine". 
You bought a pasta making machine? I own one, though I seldom use it.
It works turning a handle, but there are motor-operated models too. 
I love making [and eating]  fresh pasta with flour and water, no eggs.  


 "Ciao" (this has become very popular)
E tra i giovani UK, 
"Laters"
[sentito in Bend It Like Beckham]


 I love making [and eating]  fresh pasta with flour and water, no eggs.
Yes I bought an "Atlas", made in Italy, a long time ago; it's a
crank-model, too. I don't like the electric ones that extrude the pasta.
I make pasta both with semolina and white flour; with and without eggs,
depending on the purpose. Fettucine and spaghetti I make with an egg; if
I'm making tortellini I don't add the egg. And of course, gnocchi (which I
don't make in the machine at all) no egg.
-- 
If you feel the need to e-mail me, un-not my address first.

 You bought a pasta making machine?
"A" machine? I suppose there's just one... 
Bye, FB
-- 
"Gli americani sono ignoranti per loro stessa natura"
that is "The Americans are naturally ignorant"
(Paolo Bonardi on it.cultura.linguistica - 
http://snipurl.com/7ryg
)

 don't make in the machine at all) no egg.
I also like spaghetti and fettuccine "acqua e farina", just water and
soft wheat flour.
Now that we talk about it, I am getting hungry. I think I am going to
use my pasta machine soon ;-)
-- 
Enrico C
Do Something Amazing Today
Save a Life, Give Blood

 Bye, FB
??? I don't understand your point.
-- 
If you feel the need to e-mail me, un-not my address first.

 use my pasta machine soon ;-)
Same here... it looks like I'll be making fettuccine with basil pesto
(which I love and could eat every day!) for a snack later. I have some
basil growing on the terrace; it's about ready to be harvested.


 ??? I don't understand your point.
No grammatical stuff, this time. I was just saying that I've always heard
of Imperia.
Bye, FB
-- 
L'importante è che risplenda tu, sola primadonna e immarcescibile leggenda
del tuo pianerottolo.
(Lucangel su it.cultura.libri)

 of Imperia.
Gotcha.


 (Luigi Wittgenstein)
hai anche qualche citazione di Luigi Ariosto per caso? :)



Touchée!
Pero` ho della musica di Luigi Da Barbabietolaalforno ;->>


How can you be sure that the cat doesn't pee on your basil?
Joe from Massachusetts

 How can you be sure that the cat doesn't pee on your basil?
He does. He waters it every day for me. :)
