Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Rimettilo sul tavolo

Come tradurreste la frase in oggetto, detta a proposito di un oggetto caduto
a terra? La mia grammatica (Packham-Fiore) dà la sua versione di "migliore
traduzione" in un paragrafetto da titolo "La completezza della traduzione".
Chi riuscirà ad azzeccarla per primo?
Sono particolarmente curioso di sentire le proposte dei madrelingua...
Via alle risposte!
Lorenzo

 wrote in message
news:tnLgd.8395$Ni.2...@twister1.libero.it...

Put it back on the table.
Joe from Massachusetts


che velocità! cmq no, non è la versione considerata "veramente completa"
(più o meno ci siamo, ovviamente, ma...)

 wrote in message
news:izLgd.8469$Es2.1...@twister2.libero.it...

La plume de ma tante est sur la table?  :>)
Joe from Massachusetts

Lorents ha scritto:

I agree with Joe: "Put it back on the table" is the first that comes to my
mind.
-- 
The preceding is my opinion of modern, colloquial, American English. I
point this out to avoid confusion; references to British English may appear
to contradict the foregoing.
If you feel the need to e-mail me, un-not my address first.


I don't think he has put all his cards on the table. I believe he's
holding a kicker.
Joe from Massachusetts

 holding a kicker.
Kicker: "animale che scalcia". Dev'essere dura hold-arlo :).
Cos'è, una sorta di "asso nella manica"?
--
Francesco
www.gbawins.com

 mind.
Me too.
-- 
Mary

 Me too.
me too, that's the first thing I'd say
-- 
Yeah, whatever...

 Chi riuscirà ad azzeccarla per primo?
Put it back again onto the table.
Ciao
Fabio 

 Put it back again onto the table.
"Again" sta meglio alla fine della frase, e "on" e meglio di "onto".
Si potrebbe dire "put it back on the table again", ma quel "again" è
superfluo, a meno che l'azione non venga ripetuta più volte.
-- 
Mary

 superfluo, a meno che l'azione non venga ripetuta pių volte.
Si, anche io sono  d'accordo e avrei detto la frase proposta da altri, ma 
stavo cercando altre formulazioni per vedere cosa ci possa essere di 
differente.
Ciao
Fabio 

 differente.
Infatti, anch'io sono curiosa di sapere quello che dice il libro.
Forse dicono semplicemente "put it back on the table, please"!
-- 
Mary

Put it back on the table.
That's what I would say.
bye
ari

 Put it back again onto the table.
Or: Re-put it back onto the table again, one more time. 

 Via alle risposte!
Since the *correct* answer has been said - let me add this translation of
"rimettilo sul tavolo": "Puke it on the table".
Sebastiano


mooolto vicino, tutto quello che hai scritto ci deve essere (non proprio in
quell'ordine), poi manca solo una cosetta...
Ancora un pochino e poi dico la risposta e relativa motivazione del libro
(da cui si puo' sempre dissentire immagino, non stiamo mica parlando di un
problema di matematica...)

"Francesco Napolitano" <a@b.c> wrote in message
news:LIMgd.8566$Es2.1...@twister2.libero.it...

<<A kicker, also called a side card, is a card in a poker hand that
does not itself take part in determining the rank of the hand, but
that may be used to break ties between hands of the same rank.>>
Joe from Massachusetts

Lorents ha scritto:

Ok, ok, it's gotta be:
"Replace it on the table", but trust me, NO ONE would utter that without
hours of thought. :)


Ecco la risposta del libro.
Si parte dalla versione minimale "put it back on the table" (che, da
ignorante, č ciň che avrei detto io), quindi si argomenta come segue:
"Si noti poi che nel movimento esiste anche il concetto di moto a luogo; di
conseguenza, si aggiunge "to" ("Put it back on to the table"). Ma poi esiste
anche un movimento verso l'alto, che richiede l'uso dell'avverbio "up" ("Put
it back up on to the table"). Infine il ripristino della posizione
originaria autorizza l'uso dell'avverbio "again". Si arriva quindi ad una
traduzione veramente completa:
"Put it back up on to the table again"
Cosa ne pensate? Mi aveva un po' colpito perché mi sembrava un'esagerazione
tutta questa (supposta) precisione... in particolare, quell' "up" non mi
sarebbe proprio venuto...
ciao, Lorenzo


ineccepibile! :-)

 "Put it back up on to the table again"
Mi pare che uno dei due autori sia madrelingua. Per me č una barzelletta.
Ciao, FB
-- 
Emily: "I'm going to Europe and I'm going to have a marvellous time. I'm
going to get up at ten and have two glasses of wine at lunch every single
day."
Richard: "Only prostitutes have two glasses of wine at lunch!"
(Gilmore Girls, 501)

 Per me è una barzelletta.
L'unica spiegazione è che si tratti di uno scherzo.
-- 
Mary

Lorents ha scritto:

Here's a good word to apply to the book's suggestion: overkill.
You could also go completely over the top with:
I would like for you please to put the item that has fallen back up onto
[Note: "onto" is one word; the book may be wrong there) the table from
which it has fallen, once again, and I thank you very much for doing that.



I can't imagine ever using this particular phrase.
The other partial translation, "Put it back on to the table", is also
something which I would never use.
"On" is adequate, the "to" in "on to" is superfluous. Would you say
"Rimettilo su sul tavolo?" And further, "on to" used instead of "onto"
reflects the grammarians' lack of touch with modern English. If they
would read something other than pedagogical grammatical texts, they
would see this.
The Oxford Dictionary says that "onto" in place of "on to" has not
been wholly accepted as correct British English, but the Cambridge and
the American dictionaries give it its due place. In fact, the use of
"onto" over "on to" in most cases in modern English (not the language
of these pedants) eliminates the possibility of ambiguity in the
written word. You drive on to victory, but you drive your car onto a
ferry boat.
When you translate their "perfect" translation back into Italian, it
is not the same phrase.
Put it back up on to the table again.
Rimettilo su sul tavolo ancora una volta.
These outdated "grammarians" are indulging in a bit of pedantry, and
their judgement in this regard renders suspect all of their opinions.
Joe from Massachusetts

 their judgement in this regard renders suspect all of their opinions.
Chi ci divulgherà i nomi di questi autori, affinché possimo accertarci di
non comprare mai uno dei loro libri?
-- 
Xakero 
"One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that
one's work is terribly important." _ Bertrand Russell

 [Note: "onto" is one word; the book may be wrong there)
"On to" is very often written as two words in BritEng; even in "H.P. and
the Philosopher's Stone" it is always written that way.
Bye, FB
-- 
Conversation like television set on honeymoon: unnecessary.
(Murder by Death)

 non comprare mai uno dei loro libri?
Lorents has written them somewhere. Since one of them is a native speaker,
I have a hunch Lorents may have misunderstood something, the "correct"
sentence perhaps having been written to prove some theory.
Bye, FB
-- 
Mrs. Palmer, in her way, was equally angry. 'She was determined to drop his
acquaintance immediately, and she was very thankful that she had never been
acquainted with him at all'. (Jane Austen)

 sentence perhaps having been written to prove some theory.
Ah, sì. Packham e Fiore. Adesso inseriti nella mia lista nera.
-- 
Xakero
Speaking at the staff meeting, a pert and pretty female engineer named
Renee told the male manager of the division, "I'd like to get something off
my chest."
"What's that, Renee?"
"Your eyes."


I'm afraid your hunch didn't prove to be very good this time... the context
was perfectly serious.
Anyway, don't be to harsh towards the authors, overall I happen to like
their text... actually, I considered it to be quite reliable. I *still*
think it is, even if I'll be warier from now on. But don't worry: if I find
some other goodies I will ask for a *real* expert advice of the ng :-)
BTW, I'm going to London this week-end. I'm leaving with some other Italians
to visit an Italian friend of us who is living there at the moment (and who,
in turn, lives with other Italians...). Unfortunately, as you can guess, the
linguistic usefulness of this trip will probably be very close to zero...
:-/
Lorenzo