Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: "I don't smoke, like Jane."

Does Jane smoke?
-- 
Enrico
The Irishman?s remonstrance to his gad-about daughter:
?Shure, you?re always goin? out! You go out three times, for wanst
that you come in!? 

Does Jane smoke?
-- 
Enrico
The Irishman's remonstrance to his gad-about daughter:
"Shure, you?re always goin' out! You go out three times, for wanst
that you come in!" 

Does Jane smoke?
-- 
Enrico
The Irishman's remonstrance to his gad-about daughter:
"Shure, you're always goin' out! You go out three times, for wanst
that you come in!" 

 Does Jane smoke?
It's a bit ambiguous, but probably not.
It'd be clearer to say "Like Jane, I don't smoke", or "I don't smoke,
and neither does Jane".
If Jane smoked, you'd say "I don't smoke like Jane".
-- 
Mary



That's exactly what I thought!
So, I was a bit surprised when I read on ol' Swan...
QUOTE SWAN #320
After a negative clause, a comparison with AS or LIKE usually refers
to the positive part.
I don't smoke, like Jane.  (Jane smokes)
I am not a Conservative, like Joe. (Joe is a Conservative)
I am no orator, as Brutus is. (Shakespeare, Julius Ceasar)
Before a negative clause, the comparison refers to the whole clause.
Like Mary, I don't smoke. (Mary doesn't smoke)
UNQUOTE
The second rule (Before a negative clause) is self-evident. 
The first rule, on the contrary, (After a negative clause, followed by
a comma) is not all that clear to me. 


So, I was a bit surprised when I read on ol' Swan...
Well, probably the key is the pause, the comma.
If you say "I don't smoke like Jane" it means that you do not smoke
and that Jane smokes (or it could mean that you smoke less than her,
or you have a different way of holding the cigaret...).
If you say "I don't smoke, like Jane" and you pause as you ought to in
order to express the comma, i think it's a way to say that you and
Jane don't smoke.
"I can't swim like you" means that I am not able to swim like you.
"I can't swim, like you" means that I am not able to swim and you
can't either.
But I don't like these sentences, I mean, with the "like you".
Sebastiano
-- 
The pen is mightier than the sword... only if the
sword is very small and the pen is very sharp.

 Jane don't smoke.
Ah, but that's not what Enrico's SWAN says, and that puzzles me, too. I took
it to mean the same that Mary and you suggest.
To indicate that Jane smokes but I do not I would say "Unlike Jane, I don't
smoke" or, if you want to turn it around, "I don't smoke, unlike Jane"
---
Xakero

 Jane don't smoke.
So would I. But ol' Swan seems to disagree with us! 
-- 
Enrico
"No law in that country must exceed in words the number of letters in
their alphabet...  They are expressed in the most plain and simple
terms, ...and to write a comment upon any law, is a capital crime." 

 So would I. But ol' Swan seems to disagree with us!
Well, Swan says "...usually...", so we're not absolutely, completely,
totally wrong even according to his book. Let's call ourselves the exception
that proves his rule, though I don't like his rule at all.
---
Xakero

smoke" or, if you want to turn it around, "I don't smoke, unlike Jane"
I'd do the same.
In fact if I read "I don't smoke like you" the first meaning that pops
into my mind is that I am a smoker but I smoke less then you. But
that's probably caused by the fact that I'm Italian.


 Does Jane smoke?
Non fuma. E' la virgola che la rende in tal senso.

 Does Jane smoke?
If something said that to me, I would assume that Jane smokes.
If someone said "like Jane, I don;t smoke"  then I would assume that
Jane doesn't smoke.
bye
arianna