Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: season greetings

this evening the Italian tv news reported that in UK people are avoiding to
send postcards with traditional wishes of 'merry christmas' not  to annoy
other religions' sensibility: it seems they have adopted a more general
formula like 'season greetings'.
Anyone to confirm this trend?
dd


I don't know about the UK, but it is certainly true for the United
States.
bye
ari

 wrote in message 
news:1165727530.6...@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...

I see. Well, so also Santa  has been sacked at last!
 Thank you and regards
dd 

 States.
.... which is _very_ sad
:-/
Tschüss,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
--
"I knew that I had come face to face with some one whose mere personality 
was so fascinating that, if I allowed it to do so, it would absorb my whole 
nature, my whole soul, my very art itself." 

 formula like 'season greetings'.
Che noia, la dannatissima political correctness.
Buon Natale a tutti! :-))
-- 
Ciao,
Anna

 Buon Natale a tutti! :-))
Eid Milad majeed wa sana mubaraka!
(questo sarebbe l'equivalente in arabo)
dd

 :-/
Who knows? After all Western Xmas is reduced to such a huge, continuous
food-stuffing (at the expense of animals) that a little sobriety seems
welcome...



A proposito... consiglio di vedere il film "Crash".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony: You see any white people in there waiting an hour and thirty two
minutes for a plate of spaghetti? Huh? And how many cups of coffee did we
get? 
Peter: You don't drink coffee and I didn't want any. 
Anthony: That woman poured cup after cup to every white person around us.
Did she even ask you if you wanted any? 
Peter: We didn't get any coffee that you didn't want and I didn't order,
and this is evidence of racial discrimination? Did you happen to notice our
waitress was black? 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony: That waitress sized us up in two seconds. We're black and black
people don't tip. So she wasn't gonna waste her time. Now somebody like
that? Nothing you can do to change their mind. 
Peter: So, uh... how much did you leave? 
Anthony: You expect me to pay for that kind of service? 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony: Look around! You couldn't find a whiter, safer or better lit part
of this city. But this white woman sees two black guys, who look like UCLA
students, strolling down the sidewalk and her reaction is blind fear. I
mean, look at us! Are we dressed like gangbangers? Do we look threatening?
No. Fact, if anybody should be scared, it's us: the only two black faces
surrounded by a sea of over-caffeinated white people, patrolled by the
triggerhappy LAPD. So, why aren't we scared? 
Peter: Because we have guns? 
Anthony: You could be right. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick: Why do these guys have to be black? No matter how we spin this thing,
I'm either gonna lose the black vote or I'm gonna lose the law and order
vote! 
Karen: You know, I think you're worrying too much. You have a lot of
support in the black community. 
Rick: ll right. if we can't duck this thing, we're gonna have to neutralize
it. What we need is a picture of me pinning a medal on a black man. The
firefighter - the one that saved the camp or something - Northridge...
what's his name? 
Bruce: He's Iraqi. 
Rick: He's Iraqi? He looks black. 
Bruce: He's dark-skinned, sir, but he's Iraqi, his name's Saddam Hassif. 
Rick: His name's Saddam? Oh, that's great, Bruce. Yeah, I'm gonna pin a
medal on an Iraqi named Saddam. Give yourself a raise, won't you? 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Graham: Mom, I can't talk to you right now, OK? I'm having sex with a white
woman. 
[hangs up, and Ria gets out of bed] 
Graham: OK, where were we? 
Ria: I was white, and you were about to jerk off in the shower. 
Graham: Oh, shit. Come on. I would have said you were Mexican, but I don't
think it would have pissed her off as much. 
Ria: Why do you keep everybody a certain distance, huh? What, you start to
feel something and panic? 
Graham: Come on, Maria. You're just pissed 'cause I answered the phone. 
Ria: That's just where I begin to get pissed. I mean, really, what kind of
man speaks to his mother that way? 
Graham: Oh, this is about my mother. What do you know about my mother? 
Ria: If I was your father, I'd kick your fucking ass. 
Graham: OK, I was raised badly. Why don't you take your clothes off, get
back into bed, and teach me a lesson? 
Ria: You want a lesson? I'll give you a lesson. How 'bout a geography
lesson? My father's from Puerto Rico. My mother's from El Salvador. Neither
one of those is Mexico. 
Graham: Ah. Well then I guess the big mystery is, who gathered all those
remarkably different cultures together and taught them all how to park
their cars on their lawns? 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I can only speak about the US on this point. My understanding of the recent
social phenomenon of being sensitive about the impact of the overwhelming
cultural deluge of Christmas on non-Christians, is that you only generalize
your greeting with strangers or people for whom their persuasions on
religion and holidays are unknown to you. For instance, a clerk at a grocery
store should say happly holidays to people, because it should not be assumed
that they celebrate Christmas. Recently, this practice has changed at
Walmart, the largest retailer in the US, because of the threat of a boycott
by right-wing fundamentalist Christians who believe that the US is a
Christian country and all others should subject themselves to that
denomination's domination. Now, Walmart clerks are instructed to say Merry
Christmas to all customers. I can only assume that applies also to those in
Arab or Hasidic garb.
The polite practice is, when you don't know the person, to not make an
assumption about their religious affliliation, and greet them with happy
holidays, or season's greetings (not "season greetings"). However, if you
know the person well enough to know what they celebrate or don't celebrate,
you would say merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, happy Kwanzaa, or whatever
greeting is appropriate for that person. Typically, you send postcards to
people you know, and Christmas-themed post cards are plentiful in stores
that carry such things. I imagine a postcard producer might also make a
season's greetings postcards to appeal to a wider range of customers.

 season's greetings postcards to appeal to a wider range of customers.
I don't want a few typos to confuse English language learners.
post cards = postcards
make a season's greetings postcards = make season's greeting postcards 

 make a season's greetings postcards = make season's greeting postcards
Some days you should just stay in bed.
season's greeting = season's greetings

dicaduca ha scritto:

I've seen the expression "season('s) greetings" on a post card for the
first time about 30 years ago, so I'd say that the Italian TV has
discovered "acqua calda", as usual.
--
Cingar


Yes, it has been around as long as I've been here.
I'd also like to add that we've gone from "Christmas Break" and "Easter
Break" to "Winter Break" and "Spring Break".
bye
ari

 greeting is appropriate for that person.
Is 'have a jolly yuletide' appropriate enough for you?

 discovered "acqua calda", as usual.
yes, they usually delay the update in that range of time...


How unbiased of you...:)

 Is 'have a jolly yuletide' appropriate enough for you?
Probably not if I were Hindu or Bhuddist. Although such religious
affiliations may be rare in Italy, they are a growing part of the US
population. You might find this useful:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/winter_solstice.htm
I think that some of the email they get from visitors should be enough to 
convince people that we need more tolerance for diversity, not less.

 Break" to "Winter Break" and "Spring Break".
Hmmm.... I doubt that blanking out traditional holiday names or, say,
forgoing Christmas carols, and so on, is a way to more tolerance for
diversity. 
I see it as a fad that most people will follow out of convention, utimately
for fear of being labeled as "not tolerant". But that doesn't mean they are
not.
To me, people would show more real respect for diversity, not just formal
"political correctness", by greeting Hindus or Bhuddists or Jews during
their traditional holidays, or singing their songs side by side with
Christmas carols, id est, getting to know and appreciate different
traditions, not losing one's own. 
Imho!

 convince people that we need more tolerance for diversity, not less.
I do agree with what you stated and think I will join the Mescaleros'
religion as soon as possible to increase my  *perception* of  tolerance.
Have a nice time

 religion as soon as possible to increase my  *perception* of  tolerance.
Perhaps it is incorrect to say that religion is the opiate of the people, if
it's really the hallucinogenic.



Quoto integralmente applaudendo in piedi davanti al monitor! :)
-- 
Ciao,
Anna

 wrote in message
news:AjTeh.73699$uv5.6...@twister1.libero.it...

Unlike Italy, the US is not a religiously homogeneous society.
Many Americans would be surprised to learn that the Crucifix is a fixture in
Italian classrooms.
At this time of year, Christians celebrate Christmas, but at the same time
Jews are celebrating Chanukah.
In addition to displays of Christmas trees and Santa Claus, there are many
displays of Mehorahs.
There is even a lighting ceremony for the National Menorah in Washington,
DC, on Dec. 17th this year.
http://godc.about.com/od/seasonalevents/p/hol_44_details.htm
How many public displays of Menorahs are there in Italy?
How many Italians even know what a Menorah is?
In the US, it has always been common for businesses to send greeting cards
with "Season's Greetings" rather than the more specific "Merry Christmas".
The reason for this is that a businessman does not know if his client is
Christian, Jewish, or "other", and both Christmas and Chanukah are
celebrated at this time of the year. Some people only celebrate the New
Year.
Individuals who send non-specific greetings probably don't know the people
to whom they are sending the cards very well, so they send generic
greetings.
You wouldn't send a "Merry Christmas" card to a recent emigré from
Kurdistan, or to a recently arrived Russian Jew.
Joe from Massachusetts

 people's religious custom (Kwanzaa was indeed a revelation!)
Kwanzaa is a made-up celebration, not a genuine tradition, and has been
foisted upon the African-American community as an African tradition where no
such tradition exists. The same people who encourage the study of Swahili (a
language never spoken by any African-American slave) now perpetuate the myth
of the African festival of  Kwanzaa.
If you're going to include Kwanzaa, then you'll have to include that other
made-up festival, "Festivus".
Joe from Massachusetts


Unless I would test their sense of humour ...

Enrico C ha scritto:

Right! I think that just intollerants cannot stand others' traditions.
I sent a greetings' e-mail to a muslim friend for end of Ramadam, but
the banning of every religious festivals' traditional signs is a
non-sense.
Some days ago this my friend asked me about how we celebrate Christmas,
even the panettone recipe.
The tollerance born from the knowledge not from the ignorance. The
religious symbols'  banning instead  will increase the racism.
It will be a victory of people like Adel Smith, for many Italians it
will be read as "immigration = death of Italian culture".
Already now in some Italian school all Christmas' symbols are banned.
In my opinion it's a really shame.

 Already now in some Italian school all Christmas' symbols are banned.
I suppose English was banned from the school _you_ attended?

 religious symbols, crucifix, menorah, buddha's statue and anything else.
Eh no, caro. Non è che puoi spazzare via la cultura cristiana radicata in 
Italia da _secoli_ con il primo battello di islamici che arriva a Lampedusa. 
Anche perchè sono LORO che si devono adattare al nostro stile di vita, NON 
noi che dobbiamo adattarci ai loro comodi.


Comanche & Red Dust ha scritto:

Well, I read and write in this group to improve my English. If it'd be
perfect why should I read this ng? Just to write useless reply?
If you know very well English, correct my mistakes instead of making
this annoying reply.

 open-mindedly.
I don't like it too, it's quite scary to see this strange man acting
like he's suffering for us all!
It's frightening!

 noi che dobbiamo adattarci ai loro comodi.
Io sono Italiano, quindi non faccio parte di "LORO", e mi piacerebbe
vivere in uno stato *laico*.
PS: io non so un cazzo della nostra cultura cristiana, io guardo al
presente e al futuro, le cose che abbiamo fatto in passato le abbiamo
fatte perchè eravamo più ignoranti!

 this evening the Italian tv news reported that...
Don't watch too much italian tv, it's dangerous!

 fatte perchè eravamo più ignoranti!
Sinceramente mi pare un bel controsenso, prima fai un elogio
dell'ignoranza  e poi dici che gli errori passati sono frutto
dell'ignoranza. La cosa mi lascia sconcertato.
Non capisco il tuo pensiero.

 and open-mindedly.
I'd like to comment on your use of the word laicism. Although it is a
perfectly fine word to use, it is not in common use and will not be
recognized by many English speakers. The more common term is 'secularism'.
One speaks of the goal of a 'secular state' in which the religious
establishment is divorced from the civil establishment, and with hope, all
religions are able to practice their beliefs without imposing their tenets
on others of different or absent religious affiliation. This is in
opposition to a theocratic state, such as Israel or Iran, which incorporates
the power of the dominant religion into the governing and law-making 
practices of the state.

Last_Lizard_King_1971 ha scritto:

Democrazia e laicità non sono mica concetti binari, gli stati
democratici sono ANCHE laici, quindi il fatto che i segni religiosi
andrebbero eliminati non dovrebbe sessere messo in discussione, ma
dovrebbe essere una conseguenza naturale della laicità degli stati
deemocratici.
Spero di essermi fatto capire.

Cingar ha scritto:

HAHAHHA HAHAH :-))))
qUESTA è BELLA...

 sopratutto il velo!
What next? Forbid free speech, as your opinion might offend others with
different opinions?

 deemocratici.
Quindi affermi che l'Italia non è uno stato democratico?
Mi spiace ma non sono d'accordo, l'Italia è uno stato democratico
anche se non perfetto.
Il fatto che noi possiamo esprimere le nostre opinioni liberamente,
anche se diverse tra loro, che possiamo criticare apertamente i nostri
politici ed amministratori pubblici senza paura di essere arrestati o
puniti mi pare che ci configuri come democrazia.
Quello che volevo sottolinearti è che la tua opinione, come la mia,
non sono "verità assolute" , mai! Questo è il motivo per cui nelle
democrazie si utilizza il voto, il credere a delle "verità assolute"
sempre giuste aldilà di ogni verifica porta spesso alla dittatura
(religiosa o meno).
Perchè la "verità assoluta" non pressuppone voto o messa in dubbio.
Il vero democratico, imho, cerca di capire il pensiero di chi la pensa
diversamente da lui casomai  ponendo in dubbio anche le proprie idee.
Ti faccio questo discorso perchè da un lato, giustamente, elogi la
bellezza della democrazia, ma dall'altro, usando aggettivi offensivi
della sensibilità altrui verso il Crocifisso,  ti poni in un modo poco
"democratico" verso chi la pensa diversamente da te.
Il bello della democrazia è che ognuno può pensarla come vuole basta
che ci sia rispetto delle opinioni altrui e si rimarra sempre nel
dialogo (sempre utile) e mai nello scontro (inutile e dannoso).

 religious symbols, crucifix, menorah, buddha's statue and anything else.
That would be my choice. Let the parents of the pupils decide what they
want in their classroom.
Let people express their own religious feelings and traditions, if they
want. Don't censor them in the name of "tolerance". That would be the
opposite of tolerance, in my view.

 not.
IMHO, an impersonal phrase such as "Season's greetings" is not intended
for a person to send greetings to another person. In that case, you'd
of course use more personal greetings such as "Merry Christmas!", "Fuck
Christmas!" (*), "Happy birthday, J.C.", "Long life Sol Invictus!", or
whatever else you and your recipient feel is appropriate.
(*: That's the one The Grinch and I usually send each other. :-)
But if you are an organization (e.g. a company, or a town council) and
your recipient is an undefined audience (e.g. the company's customers,
or the town's inhabitants), you probably want something less personal
and that can fit the whole plethora of civil and religious festivals
occurring in the very months of December and January, which as you know
include:
- December 8: Immaculate Conception; Enlightment of Buddha
- December 10: Human Rights Day
- December 13: Saint Lucy's Day
- December 25: Christmas (Western)
- some day in December: Hanukkah
- January 1: New Year's Day (Gregorian)
- January 6: Epiphany
- January 7: Christmas (Orthodox)
- January 14: New Year's Day (Julian)
- January 19: Teophany
- January 26: Australian and Indian national holidays
- some day in January: Martin Luther King Day
- ... etc.
Of course, a company or a town council could also choose to record in
their databases every customer's religious beliefs (provided that
privacy regulations permit this) and have their computer printing
personalized mailings fitting everybodys convinctions...
But, hey, honestly I think that my bank and my town council can find
better ways of spending *my* money than sending The Grinch and me
postcards reading: "Fuck Christmas!"!
--
Cingar

 Italian classrooms.
Io invece, da agnostico, mi meraviglio di come nelle aule di tribunale degli 
Stati Uniti compaia ancora la scritta "In God we trust". E' davvero così, o 
è una invenzione dei telefilm (come sarei propenso a sperare)? 

 cosě, o č una invenzione dei telefilm (come sarei propenso a sperare)?
Ecco la storia:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_mott.htm
 

 
http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_mott.htm
Grazie mille, davvero interessante.
Beh, sotto un profilo strettamente storico il motto fa parte della 
tradizione americana, questo non si discute. Tuttavia, mi si permetta di 
eccepire che, se mi trovassi in un'aula di un tribunale statunitense, 
preferirei affidarmi unicamente all'immanenza della decisione di un giudice 
e dei suoi giurati in tutta la loro perfettibile finitezza, piuttosto che 
porre fiducia nella trascendenza di una entità che sembra divertirsi molto 
coi destini dei suoi accoliti (e non). 

 It's frightening!
Statte bono, va.


 fatte perchè eravamo più ignoranti!
Giusto, al bando tutta la filosofia dalle origini fino all'altro ieri, 
compresa quella dei greci, che tanto risolvevano tutto con la cicuta. Al 
bando anche S. Agostino, S. Francesco, Newton, Galilei, Cartesio, Kant, ma 
soprattutto, che non mi si parli bene di Gesù Cristo, senno' si rischia pure 
di essere antisemiti come "Passion" di Mel Gibson.


 bando anche S. Agostino, S. Francesco, Newton, Galilei, 
Ecco, magari il Gali lascialo stare, va.
Potrebbe aversene un pochino a male di aver ricevuto le scuse 300 anni 
dopo la sua morte.
saluti,
Peltio
-- 
Ti piace la fisica e vorresti leggere qualche articolo divulgativo di 
buon livello? Consulta la sezione "Best of" di Physics World alla 
pagina 
http://physicsweb.org/bestof/
 (Comunicato a cura della LIPSISC)

 di vita, NON noi che dobbiamo adattarci ai loro comodi.
My dearest, take it easy. It won't surely be a fistful of hungry, persecuted
immigrants to upset the fatty, comfortable, easy way of living of our
nazi-pope, who has recently insisted on the necessity of maintaining that
cross alive in our society, so to remind us of its occult threat.

 wrote in message
news:1165853915.6...@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

VLADIMIR:
But you can't go barefoot !
ESTRAGON:
Christ did.
VLADIMIR:
Christ! What has Christ got to do with it. You're not going to compare
yourself to Christ!
ESTRAGON:
All my life I've compared myself to him .
VLADIMIR:
But where he lived it was warm, it was dry !
ESTRAGON:
Yes. And they crucified quick.

 it's really the hallucinogenic.
As in this instance:
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/13721/high-court-sides-with-church-in-hallucinogenic-tea-dispute


Never mind, only at meals' time!

 practices of the state.
Are you really comparing Israel and Iran on the same basis? Well, I would
have said there were an abyss between the two states with regard to their
governments or as far as I can see from their life style.

 of the African festival of  Kwanzaa.
or...
In the future everyone will be famous for fifteen minutes (A. Warhol)

 wrote in message
news:15i6lu5sfp8c$.dlg@news.lillathedog.net...

It seems to me I have said the very words you are saying, viz let them allow
whatever sign they believe in. What's intolerant in this?  The point is
elsewhere:  it lays in the fact that our church-goers are unwilling to
acknowledge  the other religions' status, especially when the pope candidly
comes out stressing the necessity of the catholic symbol in the 'secular'
society. This is rather suspect, shows me the fear to lose 'clients', the
need to affirm a predominance, the back side of a religion of love.

 dopo la sua morte.
complimenti per la precisazione, e non parliamo nemmeno del Giordano Bruno 
magari... 

Nobody knew Why. But...
    Who: dicaduca
    Where: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
    When: 12-12-06 03.17.16
    What: Re: season greetings

E' che tirare in ballo Galielo in un thread in cui si parla di quanto 
bene abbia fatto la cultura cristiana al progresso stride un pochino.
saluti,
Peltio
-- 
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http://mathworld.wolfram.com
 trovi un riferimento in continua crescita. 
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Protezione dei Siti di Interesse Scientifico Conoscitivo). Aut. Min. 
rich.

 governments or as far as I can see from their life style.
I'm not comparing them, I'm naming them both as examples of theocratic
states. Of course the theocracies are organized in different ways, and some
would argue that Israel is a secular state as others would argue that Iran
is a secular state. But in both nations the dominant religion has a profound
grip on the government and people of other religions are either not allowed
the same standing or are vigorously oppressed.

 whatever sign they believe in.
Agreed.
-- 
"CAT-lendario 2007! Oltre 120 mici si sono messi in posa per aiutare gli
a-mici meno fortunati, nello specifico quelli abbandonati." 
http://catlendario.blogspot.com/

 cross alive in our society, so to remind us of its occult threat.
Non ho capito. La minaccia proverrebbe dal crocifisso o dalla società?


 Non ho capito. La minaccia proverrebbe dal crocifisso o dalla società?
Dall'anticristo

 wrote in message
news:12ns9vs...@corp.supernews.com...

I see
On May 14, 1948 the new State of Israel declared its independence and among
other things asserted that it would
  "uphold the full social and political equality of all its citizens without
distinction of religion, race, or sex; will guarantee freedom of religion,
conscience, education, and culture; will safeguard the holy places of all
religions; and will loyally uphold the principles of the United Nations
Charter." . . .
Mymo showed, in a previous post, that the U.S. motto 'in god we trust'
reveals a theocratic nature, similar to the one you might ascribe  to both
the two countries cited above:  therefore universal rights ( those of
atheists included), among nations, actually seem to be questionable a bit
everywhere, don't they?

 everywhere, don't they?
Of course 

 >
Per non parlare dei ben più recenti massacri in nomi di due correnti
cristiane in Irlanda del Nord... e a tal proposito consiglio a tutti la
lettura di Eureka Street di McLiam Wilson anche per un aggiornamento
sullo slang di Belfast. E consiglio anche la lettura (in italiano) di
qualche testo del cristianissimo Franco Cardini, per sapere se è vero
che gli arabi hanno fatto solo cose orribili in Europa nel medioevo....
Secondo me comunque la bontà o la cattiveria di una dottrina o di
un'idea politica non si stabiliscono tanto con la conta dei morti
dell'una o dell'altra parte o delle nefandezze compiute in questo o
quel nome .
Enrico, ma tu quando vedi il crocefisso pensi mai a porgere l'altra
guancia? Ad amare il prossimo tuo come te stesso? Ad abbandonare i tuoi
affetti per seguire Cristo? A non guardare la pagliuzza nell'occhio di
chi ti sta davanti.... insomma, a fare tutte quelle cose per cui il
cristianesimo potrebbe DAVVERO dirsi diverso, prorompente rispetto ad
altre pur degnissime di rispetto religioni? perdonami ma non mi pare
proprio, anche solo per il tono dei commenti che fai in questi post.
Avere radici cristiane vuol dir solo festeggiare il Natale ingozzandosi
come tacchini (e di tacchino) e facendo impazzire il traffico per lo
shopping dell'ultimo minuto? Vuol dire solo poter ammirare i capolavori
di arte e architettura religiosa che abbelliscono le nostre città?
Vuole dire non lavorare la domenica al posto che al sabato o al
venerdì? Vuol dire andare a Messa per farsi vedere o per vedere gli
amici? Che esempio di coerenza siamo noi che ci diciamo cristiani e
facciamo il contrario di quello che dovremmo?
A me danno fastidio sia l'ipocrisia che l'alzare le bandiere solo per
contrapporsi.
Chi è cristiano davvero secondo me non ha bisogno che lo stato gli
impedisca di abortire o di fare altre cose che vanno contro la SUA
coscienza; né deve essere lui ad impedire ad altri di fare cose che,
nel rispetto di una morale umana e non religiosa, non vanno contro la
loro. Chi è cristiano veramente non ha bisogno di vedere appeso il
crocifisso. E può augurare buon natale o buon ramadan ad un musulmano
senza offendere nessuno.
Ecco lo so, sono andata OT... ma non ce la facevo....
Ciao
Claudia

 dopo la sua morte.
Ma quello non c'entra un piffero. Io facevo un elenco molto approssimativo 
di personaggi importanti del passato, passato che il nostro amico 
insediatosi nel capoluogo campano dice di non voler nemmeno conoscere. E 
comunque Galileo non era mica ateo. Semplicemente divideva gli ambiti di 
religione e ricerca scientifica, affermando che la prima con le sacre 
scritture doveva essere rivolta alla vita ultraterrena, e la seconda a 
quella terrestre.


 come tacchini (e di tacchino)
Chi mangia tacchino a Natale?


 Chi mangia tacchino a Natale?
se non è tacchino è agnello: un'altra delle 'belle' tradizioni ricevute con
il pacchetto-natale: una sterminata ecatombe di animali in nome del
bambinello di betlemme, puah!

 Dall'anticristo
I see. Non commento a riguardo perchè non l'ho sentito il suo discorso sul 
crocifisso. Pero', dici dici, ma alla fine lo stai ad ascoltare più di me...
;-))


 bambinello di betlemme, puah!
Sempre meglio delle pecore e dei montoni sgozzati vivi e fatti morire di 
dissanguamento. Da notare che questo pacifico mattatoio è legalizzato dalla 
nostra Unione Europea in nome del rispetto verso tutti i culti.


 bambinello di betlemme, puah!
Have a Christmas cake instead! :-)
"Once a year there were Christmas puddings and cakes to be made. They 
were made with neither love nor joy. They simply had to be done. 'I 
suppose I had better DO THE CAKE,' she would sigh. The food mixer - 
she was not the sort of woman to use her hands - was an ancient, 
heavy Kenwood that lived in a deep, secret hole in the kitchen work 
surface." [...cut...] 
   "Baking a cake for your family to share, the stirring of cherries, 
currants, raisins, peel and brandy, brown sugar, butter, eggs and 
flour, for me the ultimate symbol of a mother's love for her husband 
and kids, was reduced to something that 'simply has to be done', like 
cleaning the loo or polishing the shoes. My mother knew nothing of 
putting glycerine in with the sugar to keep the icing soft, so her 
rock-hard cake was always the butt of jokes for the entire Christmas. 
My father once set about it with a hammer and chisel from the shed. So 
the sad, yellowing cake sat round until about the end of February, the 
dog giving it the occasional lick as he passed, until it was thrown, 
much to everyone's relief, on to the lawn for the birds." 
[Nigel Slater, "Toast"]


More than Nigel's cake I'd better have a  Whisky Dundee, then
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_cake


Scusa ma l'hai mai visto l'albero degli zoccoli? e i poveri maiali
cos'hanno fatto di male? 
Claudia


Gli americani, o almeno, da mia sorella si mangiava... che uno non
aveva ancora finito i sandwich col tacchino del ringraziamento che già
c'erano quelli col tacchino di natale.
C


Appunto dico: in questa robaccia maleodorante ti risenti perchè non s'è
fatto cenno alle radici cristiane europee? Sono ancora barbari sanguinari,
non vale la pena scandalizzarsi per quello che dicono e fanno, sono mossi da
interessi che nulla hanno a che fare con quello a cui ti riferisci

 diversity.
Like this
http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2006/12_Dicembre/13/bolzano.shtml
Canti di Natale cancellati, scontro a Bolzano 
Ha sollevato polemiche la decisione di una scuola materna di «oscurare» la 
nascita di Gesù per non offendere i non cristiani
BOLZANO - In questo periodo la città è in piena atmosfera natalizia, con le 
bancarelle di piazza Walther ricolme di gadget natalizi, i banchetti che 
per le strade offrono succo di mela e vin brulé, i venditori ambulanti di 
pane e wurstel e i noti angioletti in ceramica a fare capolino ad ogni 
angolo. A Bolzano, come del resto in tutto l'Alto Adige e nei paesi 
mitteleuropei, la tradizione del Natale è particolarmente sentita dalla 
popolazione. Per questo motivo ha fatto parecchio discutere la decisione 
degli insegnanti di una scuola materna di cancellare la tradizionale recita 
a base di carole e canti sulla nascita del Bambin Gesù. La motivazione? 
Nell'istituto ci sono anche diversi bambini figli di extracomunitari non 
cristiani e una eccessiva enfatizzazione del Natale come festa religiosa 
avrebbe potuto in qualche modo risultare offensiva.
[...]
13 dicembre 2006


 e che 'cce vuoi fa'? Me lo ritrovo sempre fra le balle...:)
Greetings

 Canti di Natale cancellati, scontro a Bolzano
[...]
That way, you'll just stoke up racial hatred, not tolerance.
I like better this "Raggio di sole"... :-)
http://espresso.repubblica.it/dettaglio-local/Ges%C3%B9%20sparisce%20dalla%20canzone%20di%20Natale/1454934/6
[...]
 Alla materna «Raggio di sole» di via Genova credono nella conoscenza
reciproca che fa incontrare. E così alla fine del Ramadan si organizza una
piccola festa aperta a tutti in cui viene spiegato il significato del mese
speciale per i musulmani. A Natale si festeggia e partecipano tutti, anche
i genitori stranieri. 

 ha scritto nel messaggio
Secondo me comunque la bontà o la cattiveria di una dottrina o di
un'idea politica non si stabiliscono tanto con la conta dei morti
dell'una o dell'altra parte o delle nefandezze compiute in questo o
quel nome .[...]
Concordo pienamente. Anche sul resto.

 e i poveri maiali cos'hanno fatto di male?
Se permetti quello era il metodo che usavano _una volta_ i contadini per 
macellare i maiali. Anche mia nonna lo ricordava con disgusto. Ora magari si 
usano sistemi un tantino più veloci. Nonostante questo, i figli d'Allah 
continuano a sgozzare gli animali per il solo gusto di farlo. Uccidere le 
foche è da cattivi, lo dice anche la televisione, pero' se un mussulmano 
sgozza un capretto va bene, perchè oltre che essere tutelato a livello 
europeo (!!!), è anche dalla parte del giusto dal momento che lo fa per 
tradizione e per religione, ed entrambe le cose vanno rispettate.
Tschüss,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
P.S. Giusto per curiosità, Oriana Fallaci era una cattivissima persona, 
immagino?


 altre pur degnissime di rispetto religioni?
Mi sa che non mi hai capito. ;-)
Il mio allarmismo era (è) dovuto esclusivamente alla perdità di identità che 
sta subendo la nostra società nei confronti dell'affermarsi di altre 
religioni. A me questo non piace. A te sì? Ok, questo è il bello della 
democrazia. Il tuo discorso sulla religione totalmente condivisibile, ma 
c'entra molto largamente con quello che volevo dire io.


 holidays, or season's greetings (not "season greetings").
"Holidays" is incorrect: it implies a "holiness" which the atheist, the
nihilist etc. are not ready to accept. They may well be offended by such an
implication! ;)
-- 
Ciao,
Anna

 an implication! ;)
I haven't heard that opinion before and I haven't run across it at any 
aetheist websites I've visited. Holidays, despite the etymological origins, 
has lost its association with religion and is used to identify any day of 
celebration, especially if it means the post office is closed. I believe the 
British also use the word to mean vacation.



I know, I was deliberately exaggerating the etymological impact of the word
:)
I meant that if you really want to be cautious, not to offend anybody,
there's no end to it. Or rather, you end up with some expressions *so*
vapid and neutral that IMO it would be better not to give/receive wishes at
all.
Besides, anyone could have his/her/its personal reasons to hate Christmas
(or the winter solstice or whatever you prefer to call it); shall we risk
hurting his/her/its feelings, or even driving him/her/it to suicide?
I assume hardly anybody can read other people's mind; reason suggests that
if I smile and wish you a merry Christmas (without a gun in my hand), I do
it with the best of intentions; and you can accept the wishes even if you
are not a Christian, can't you? If somebody should heartily wish me a happy
Hanukkah, I would be pleased even if I'm not a Jew. And so on.
Well, maybe I'm just *too civilized*! :-))
-- 
Ciao,
Anna

 Well, maybe I'm just *too civilized*! :-))
No, you're just too Italian. Italy is mostly a homogeneous culture, but the
US, with 20% non-Christians, is not. What you may not realize is that there
really is a culture war going on in the US. The advocates of right-wing
Christian fundamentalism actually use the term "culture war." They were one
of the main political forces behind blackmailing Walmart to include a
specifically Christian greeting as part of their corporate presence, and
they have been a dominant force in US politics, including the current
president, for a decade, with the explicit intent of having their particular
flavor of Christianity dominate all aspects of every American's life.
"Merry Christmas" may just seem symbolic, but is also a step in a particular
direction. So, what might seem exaggerated to you, has a deeper meaning for
thoughtful Americans who hope to steer the course of US culture toward a
more open society, that embraces diversity, instead of toward the
narrow-minded, aggressive, dogmatism that currently plagues its
character. What you might dismiss as political correctness, looks more like
a brave stand on principles when seen in the face of a reality that includes
Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.
On a lighter, if also deliberately exaggerated note (if we on both sides of 
the issue are allowed to exaggerate) regarding your being pleased at any 
well-intentioned greeting, I'm sure that Paolo Di Canio would be relieved.

 British also use the word to mean vacation.
I tended to believe this too, but I've often been corrected for using
the word "holiday" to describe my summer vacation, because I should have
used the word "vacation".. or is it different when referring to days off
work?
Ciao,
 Luigi

 well-intentioned greeting, I'm sure that Paolo Di Canio would be relieved.
What has Di Canio to do with Anna Martini ;-)

 Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.
In Italy, among the ways of  fascism, there was the use of having people
drink a 'purge' to convince them more persuasively that siding  ideas
different from theirs was not so convenient. Of course those were more
primitive times, but I am quite sure that the temptation to take advantage
of that method still survives in many democratic minds of the present. Joyce
would call it "agenbite of inwit", remorse mirroring into their fellows, an
endless but awkward  effort to consider oneself the supreme judge and lord
of the creation

 work?
In the US one always says vacation to refer to days one personally chooses
to take off of work, independent of other employees' days off work One says
holiday to refer to days off work that are also recognized by the general
population. My knowledge of British usage is limited and I'll leave that
answer for someone who lives in England.

 of the creation
Are you talking about that gummy corn syrup filled liquid sold in US 
supermarkets as "egg nog?"  Call me a traditionalist, but I like mine made 
fresh. 

 What has Di Canio to do with Anna Martini ;-)
He has nothing to do with her, just as saying that 'Happy Holidays' has
nothing to do with sliding down the slippery slope of overcautiousness. It
is simply inclusive rather than exclusive.

 is simply inclusive rather than exclusive.
Oops, remove the "that" left by an abrupt change in direction while writing 
made by my internal editor.

 fresh.
no, castor oil plant, a kind of viscous, disgustful oil I'd not commend to 
drink  neither fresh nor vintage :) 

> Being tolerant without giving up traditions is exactly what I expouse.
Am I going to have to proofread every post before I send it to this 
newsgroup? espouse.
I'm now closing my eyes and not reading any further. You can find the rest 
of the typos. 

> What has Di Canio to do with Anna Martini ;-)
Un bel nulla, e grazie al cielo non sono mai stata da lui romanamente
salutata. Faccio parte di un'altra curva, di un ben diverso colore: la
Maratona! :-))
Forza Toro sempre
-- 
Anna
Torino è stata e resterà granata

 more inclusive greeting.
[...]
Perhaps a Muslim wouldn't be enthusiast of being greeted a "Happy Holiday"
at Christmas time,  anyway, because everybody know it's not *their* Holy
Day!. Perhaps a Muslim would like more being greeted a "Happy Ramadan!"
during he the holy Muslim month.
-- 
"CAT-lendario 2007! Oltre 120 mici si sono messi in posa per aiutare gli
a-mici meno fortunati, nello specifico quelli abbandonati." 
http://catlendario.blogspot.com/

 during he the holy Muslim month.
And perhaps you wouldn't have a clear idea if a stranger were a Muslim or 
not. Would you say Happy Ramadan to him and just expect him to appreciate 
the sentiment, regardless of the religion he may practice? In any case, a 
Muslim who works in the US still gets a 'holiday' from work, so you can be 
right on that score. 

 year?
so happy crisp maize and happy new ears  (for veggies only) 

 so happy crisp maize and happy new ears  (for veggies only)
LOL!
-- 
Ciao,
Anna


glad you enjoyed, so you might appreciate this too:
'merry grist mash and happy new beer !'
:) 

 :)
Apprezzo, apprezzo, e ho almeno un amico in trasferta londinese che
apprezzerà ancora di più.
Grazie :))
-- 
Ciao,
Anna

 wrote in message 
news:1s1up6kfo2h8r$.on5qrr32kbkx.dlg@40tude.net...

grazie a te !!
ciao
dd