Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: A proposito di birra...

...vorrei sapere come si dice:
birra bionda, doppio malto e rossa!
Se chiedo una Blonde in un pub inglese cosa mi portano?!? O DOVE mi portano?
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 Se chiedo una Blonde in un pub inglese cosa mi portano?
Dipende dal pub.
-- 
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose
(Janis Joplin)
17/01/2006 1.04.10

 Dipende dal pub.
E anche dalla citta'. Se ti trovi a Manchester ti portano in uno dei tanti
massage parlours della citta'.
In Inghilterra le birre si dividono in:
lager bionda
ale rossa
stout scura
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 ale rossa
Io ho in frigo una pale ale, bionda
-- 
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose
(Janis Joplin)
17/01/2006 20.36.39

 Io ho in frigo una pale ale, bionda
Ci ho pensato dopo aver scritto il messaggio.
La differenza tra lager - ale - stout (e bisogna anche aggiungere
"bitter") non e' necessariamente nel colore.
Sconsiglio comunque di chiedere ad un barista "can I have a blonde please?"
antonio


 Se chiedo una Blonde in un pub inglese cosa mi portano?!? O DOVE mi portano?
Lager = birra chiara leggera e gasata
Pale ale = birra a bassa gradazione alcolica, solitamente venduta in
bottiglia
Red beer = birra rossa
Stout = birra scura (ad alta gradazione)
http://www.culturadelbere.it/culturadelbere/birra/inglese/tipologie.php
http://www.tastings.com/beer/british_ales.html
-- 
Ciao,
Anna

 Stout = birra scura (ad alta gradazione)
I think the fundamental characteristic that determines a lager or pilsener 
is that it is bottom-brewed as opposed to ale and stout which are 
top-brewed.

"Tony the Ice Man" ha scritto...

...which to the ..ehmm... end user means that a lager is a beer
more or less like Heineken. You can find a couple of lagers
(Carlsberg, Fosters, etc) basically in every English pub.
Personally I am not a big fan of lagers, and in an English pub
I would also go for an ale, which is something more tasty than
lagers, not very strong, usually served much warmer than
lagers and whose colour can be anywhere from blonde to
dark. Pubs almost invariably serve ales coming from nearby
breweries.
Some ales, London Pride for example, are more
commercial/popular and can be found almost everywhere.
An IPA (India Pale Ale) is something in between ales and lagers
and is also very popular, so it's easy to find at least an ipa.
Stout in UK means almost invariably Guinness, present almost
everywhere. A stout is not necessarily a beer at a high alcoholic
grade. I like stouts a lot, and whenever something different from
Guinness (lovely beer) is available I always taste it.
A porter is similar to a stout, even if less dense, and it's also
worth a try.
Then there's much more, but discovering the pleasures of beer
is one of the main reasons to visit a pub...
Gennaro 

 worth a try.
Recently we talked about how "even if" and "even though" differ. Shouldn't
that be "(even) though less ..."? Or did you actually mean "even when it
is ..."?
[...]
Bye, FB
-- 
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soprattutto)."
(Recensione di Antonio D'Orrico sul Corriere della Sera Magazine)

 Bye, FB
ciao
Gennaro 

 Recently we talked about how "even if" and "even though" differ.
Shouldn't> that be "(even) though less ..."? Or did you actually mean "even
when it> is ..."?
I should have written "(al)though it's less dense"
-- 
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose
(Janis Joplin)
18/01/2006 20.32.41

 lagers, not very strong
A mexican Corona is just pure cool water? :-)
-- 
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose
(Janis Joplin)
18/01/2006 20.36.08

 grade. 
And not necessarily dark. A stout it's that in Italy we call "doppio malto"
(deutsch: doppelspaten), there are a few blond ones (from Germany or
Belgium) 
-- 
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose
(Janis Joplin)
18/01/2006 20.37.33

 portano?
For what concerns "doppio malto", it isn't a  real beer.
It's only an italian denomination  for a beer with a high alcool percentage 
sold in Italy. The law requires it.
Alberto 

 - La porter e' simile alla stout, anche se meno densa (even if)
Secondo quel filone, leggerei le due frasi cosě:
- even though => sebbene sia meno densa.
- even if => la porter č disponibile densa o meno densa: anche nel caso in
cui sia meno densa, ricorda la stout.
La faccio lunga, ma la differenza, se c'č, č semplice.
[...]
Bye, FB
-- 
"Something to take to the country." (holding out a bunch of flowers)
"Flowers come _from_ the country, Charles."
(Cold Comfort Farm, the film)

 I should have written "(al)though it's less dense"
I wouldn't have said "dense".
Bye, FB
-- 
Marcel: Gentlemen, may I present Miss Betty DeBoop from the Islands?
Colonel Schlissel: Caribbean or Virgin?
Betty DeBoop: Well, let's just say I came back a Caribbean.
(The Cheap Detective)

 A mexican Corona is just pure cool water? :-)
yeah! :-)

 Belgium)
As far as I know, in Italy "birra doppio malto" is a denomination required
by law[1] and indicates all beers with a volume percentage of alcohol
higher than (about) 6[2].
To my knowledge all stouts are dark, and I actually think there are no
Belgian stouts..
[1] legge n. 141, 17 aprile 1989
[2] Is that a correct translation for "grado alcolico superiore al 6%"?
bye
Gennaro 

 It's only an italian denomination
It's the italian for "doppel spaten", as many german beers are called
-- 
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose
(Janis Joplin)
18/01/2006 21.53.13

 Belgian stouts..
Their name,obviously, is not stout (you know, french speaking peoples don't
love english words). Exempli gratia, Leffe is produced both in blonde and
brune version.
-- 
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose
(Janis Joplin)
18/01/2006 21.54.22

 Bye, FB
ciao
Gennaro 

 Bye, FB
ciao
Gennaro 

"Gennaro" <MC7...@MCLINK.IT.HELL> wrote in message 
news:dqm9qc$nav$1...@newsreader2.mclink.it...

Difficult though it may be to believe that FB is right (faccina 
only-joking-of-course) , I'm sure he is .
Mike (madrelingua) . 

 brune version.
Leffe actually produces several different kind of beers, but Leffe Brune
is not a stout! It is an "abbey dubbel" beer (here 'double' [usually] refers
to a double fermentation), like Affligem Dubbel, for example. Belgian
double beers are always dark. I'm not an expert so I don't know in detail
the differences in the production of such different beers, but I am sure
you could spot at once the enormous difference which separates a
Leffe Brune from a Guinnes.
bye
Gennaro 

 Mike (madrelingua) .
bye
Gennaro 

"Gennaro" <MC7...@MCLINK.IT.HELL> wrote in message 
news:dqmbre$oep$1...@newsreader2.mclink.it...

No.
'Even if' and 'even when' would mean , as FB suggested , much the same : the 
stout may be either more or less densa than beer , and you're selecting the 
case when it's less dense ; whereas you mean 'even though' (i.e. it's 
similar , even though (always) less densa ).
BUT
On reflection I'm not so sure this is the whole truth . 'Even when' would 
definitely be wrong for your intended meaning ; 'even though' would 
definitely be right ; but I think 'even if' can also mean 'even though' . I 
would avoid that use where there is the possibility of ambiguity , as 
perhaps here ; but we do use 'if' to mean 'though' :
  'It's an unwelcome , if unavoidable , truth that ...'
  'It's a fascinating , if sometimes irritating , account of ...'
The unavoidability of the truth is being asserted as a fact , not a possible 
case , as is the sometimes irritating nature of the account . Here I think 
there is no ambiguity possible .
I checked in SOED , and found :
   'He is a great President , even if he has many enemies'
Here it's clearly intended to be understood as a fact (not simply a 
possibility) that he has many enemies , and unlike the possibility of 
different densities of porter , a president can't both have many enemies and 
not have many enemies .
I don't recollect the thread FB mentioned ; perhaps I should check back.
Mike

>  I think 'even if' can also mean 'even though'
Even so...
let's compare... ;)
   1.  Even if  I had two hours to spare for shopping, I wouldn't go
out and buy a suit.
   2. Even though I had two hours to spare for shopping, I couldn't
find the suit I wanted.
[from BBC "Learning English"]

 Mike
bye
Gennaro 

 to a double fermentation), 
I am not an expert, but I do think tyhe german doppel spaten are the same
thing, at least the handmade ones. Curiously, Leffe's "Triple" is blonde.


Ah (faccina molto imbarrazzata) ! I see I contributed two words to that 
thread  - they should have been more , and different (as above) . Sorry !
Mike 

 wrote in message 
news:hrmzc1gff1mk$.dlg@news.lillathedog.net...

Yes - as I've said in the other message I've just posted to this thread , 
there are certainly cases where 'even if' cannot be used instead of 'even 
though' , which is a good reason for always observing a distinction and thus 
avoiding possible errors .
However , the fact is that in some cases  " 'even if' can also mean 'even 
though'" - as in the examples I gave . Indeed , the SOED to which I referred 
does make this quite clear in its definitions :
   under 'even ... phrases...even if' , it first gives
   'despite the possibility that' ,   and then
   'despite the fact that'  (supporting this by the example I quoted , 'He's 
a great president , even if he has many enemies.'
In other words , 'even if' is not restricted to introducing hypothetical 
situations despite which something is/was/will be the case .
Mike 

 it be correct (or better) to use "even when"?
Actually, I was suggesting that you use "even though".
[...]
Bye, FB
-- 
Io ho deciso di rifiutarmi di vederlo: Ettore con la faccia di Eric Banana
mi fa venire i conati.
(commento sul film "Troy" apparso su it.fan.scrittori.tolkien)

 to the other version .
Couldn't the version with "even if" taken to mean "O.K., you may be right,
maybe our president didn't manage to get a degree, but he's still a great
president", or would "even if he hadn't managed" be essential for that
meaning?
[...]
Bye, FB
-- 
"con la TAV, gli scorpioni più veloci d'europa."
(yunan, the Red Comet su it.cultura.religioni.cristiani)

 Bye, FB
bye
Gennaro 

 densa, ricorda la stout"
Per semplificare quello che ho scritto, "even if" può essere interpretato
"anche nel caso in cui/nei casi in cui/anche supponendo che" mentre "even
though" è solo "nonostante/ancorché/sebbene".
[...]
Ciao, FB
-- 
This hat was made as a special request for a client who's a financial
whizz by day and a blues player by night. He was so happy with his hat I
fear his blues may suffer.

 Curiously, Leffe's "Triple" is blonde.
Even though this may look strange, all Belgian triple beers are in fact
blonde (and rather strong).
[1] Piccolo aggiornamento ed OT birrario, magari interessa a
qualcuno: ho fatto una piccola ricerca su internet per trovare
che in effetti "Spaten" e' una casa produttrice di birra, non un
tipo di birra. La "doppel spaten", anche nota come "Optimator" e'
una "doppel bock", ben diversa dalla stout anche solo per il fatto
che si tratta di una birra di fermentazione bassa, mentre le stout
e le ales sono di fermentazione alta. Infine, quoto Gino Spath:
~~Quote~~
Il tipo 'Monaco', da Monaco di Baviera, ambrata, piuttosto scura,
pastosa. Di questo tipo fanno parte birre di 11, di 14 ('Marzen'),
di 16 ('Bock') e di 18 e piu' gradi saccarometrici ('Doppelbock').
Queste ultime hanno normalmente un nome che termina in
"ator" (..).
~~UnQuote~~
Insomma, viene proprio voglia di assaggiarle... :-)
ciao
Gennaro