Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Quella laggiù...

Un saluto al newsgroup.
Quali tra le seguenti frasi possono considerarsi corrette traduzioni della
frase: "Quella laggiù è la segretaria?"
1) That one over there is the secretary
2) The one over there is the secretary
3) That over there is the secretary
???
Grazie e ciao
Ded

Numero uno:  pero' io direi - That woman over there is the secretary.  -
That one over there is the secretary non e' affatto sbagliato ma non c'e'
nessun'indicazione che la persona di cui si parla e' una donna.  Nella frase
inglese non c'e' nessuna forma femminile.
Kevin
dedalo wrote in message ...


 nessun'indicazione che la persona di cui si parla e' una donna.
meglio, e' piu' "correct"!!! Vorrai mica discriminare, eh? ;)))))

 wrote in message
news:97dvmi$ofudt$1...@ID-65620.news.dfncis.de...

All of the phrases carry an unpleasant connotation of treating the secretary
as a "thing". It implies chauvinism by  the writer.
Unless you want to carry that aggressive meaning, replace "one" with
"person" or
"lady". Obviously "that" implies one out of several possible candidates,
while "the" means there is only one within sight.
3) That (thing) over there is the secretary - not really acceptable. You
would only
say this in the immediate aftermath of an argument with the secretary!

 as a "thing". It implies chauvinism by  the writer.
Dear Stephen,
I must respectfully disagree.
Unless English has some subtlety that is lost to foreigners, the phrase in
itself implies only rudeness by the writer.
I agree with you, being the 'secretary' a long-time eponymous for women
subject
to male chauvinism (just think of hiring a new secretary in Italy, and all
your colleagues will start giggling), it is possible that someone
establishes an incorrect link with this concept.
In the phrase 'That one is the director' neither chauvinism is implied, nor
it is suggested, and there is no reason why a chauvinist shade should appear
substituting 'director' with 'secretary'.
Or should we conclude that the fault is using the word 'secretary' and the
rude phrase is amended by writing ' that one over there is the assistant' ?
Ciao
Giorgio


Hi, Giorgio, I was trying to be ultra-careful because I once got hauled over
the coals by Queen Iz for a flippant chauvinistic remark, and haven't really
recovered yet!!

recovered yet!!
Oh, dear. I see the problem. Queen Iz, you say ? That Queen over there, you
mean, that is now showing me the way to the dungeons ? ;-))
Sigh !
Ciao
Giorgio
-- 
Posted from [151.88.109.26] 
via Mailgate.ORG Server - 
http://www.Mailgate.ORG

mean, that is now showing me the way to the dungeons ? ;-))
[...]
and she took him to the doorstep
and she asked him to wait
she would only be a moment inside
and out in the distance
her order was heard
and the soldier was killed, 
still waiting for her word
[...]
:-)
-- 
Isa
Work like you don't need money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no one's watching
http://web.tiscalinet.it/alfabeto_auschwitz/

 :-)
Knight moves....
at escape velocity :-))
Ciao
Giorgio

 Ciao
Dear Buongiorgio,
Have no fear.
Was it not by Royal Decree ordered that for services rendered above and
beyond the call of duty, your goodself was to be considered under our Royal
Protection? I am certain HRH Isabella would not wish for there be an
outbreak of hostilities on the eve of our gathering, and so I respectfully
request of her that the small matter be put aside for the time being.
(Yo, Iz! you never know - the bloke might cough up another bottle of the
bubbly, you know? Worth a try right?)
Should there be further need for discussion we could perhaps consider doing
this when we meet face to face. Quite apart from which, one has yet to see a
Knight in full armour successfully manage to achieve more than the 'speed of
snails' when attempting to outrun the Royal Guards.
I remain, as always,
Bambi
dtb

bubbly, you know? Worth a try right?)
Huruhumph... OK there. You win. But I want it *dry*, not the crap
sweet stuff *you* like!


 sweet stuff *you* like!
Your most Gracious Majesty,
The sweet Bolly I like, is not crap.
Is not.
--


Is not.
IS! As any bolly drinker worth his or her salt knows. Ask Messrs.
Krug, Dom Perignon or Veuve Clicquot if they produce sweet stuff...
eeek!
lol


 Krug, Dom Perignon or Veuve Clicquot if they produce sweet stuff...
Dear Isabella,
Is your Majesty implying that this Majesty is not worth her salt?
Merely for the record, I hope you understand.
(Is Not.)


(Is Not.)
Is!


 Is!
Of course, I'd hesitate to  step between two fighting queens, except to say
that (as long as you have them only occasionally) sweet wines can be
pleasurable. Italy makes some great ones - my favourite Italian one was a
basic strong, bitter red wine  called Aleatico from Northern Lazio, which
was grown exclusively for dipping hard biscuits. It was cheap, wasn't
exported, and scoffed at by experts until they tasted it at the end of a
joyeous evening.
Another great sweet wine was Greco di Bianco from the village of Bianco in
the toe of Italy, a wonderful wine much like Sauternes. There were only two
aged growers and they   may have passed away by now.
And for fizzy fans, surely nobody can object to an occasional Moscato
D'Asti..
Next month I'm off to Rome for a break and my favourite enoteca in
Frascati.... called the Enoteca Frascati of course....

 Is!
"I asked Madame Lily Bollinger, head of the Champagne House, who is in
London to declare her 1955 Vintage, how she enjoyed her own product."
Madame Bollinger replied thus:
"I drink it when I'm happy and when I'm sad. Sometimes I drink it when
I'm alone. When I have company I consider it obligatory. I trifle with
it if I'm not hungry and drink it when I am. Otherwise I never touch
it - unless I'm thirsty."
Quotation from the Daily Mail, 17th October 1961.
Nothing said about sweet or sour -- oops, dry.
"Bollinger : the Champagne of James Bond...and her Majesty Queen
Elizabeth II."
Le Figaro
Still nothing about sweet or dry preferences. Apparently, in "The
World Is Not Enough", Bond drank Bollinger Grande Annee 1990. But do
only the Brits (and dtbs) drink it?
At any rate, our Majesties Bambi and Isabella are quite obviously in
excellent company, whichever way they may prefer their bolly.
--
Xakero
 Sapere aude!  (Horace, Epistulae)

excellent company, whichever way they may prefer their bolly.
DRY! There's no such thing as "whichever way" :-)


the toe of Italy,...
How about Brachetto d'Acqui? Piedmontese, dark pink, fizzy, sweet.
Wonderful. Definitely *not* a Champagne, though :-)
Cheers!


 DRY! There's no such thing as "whichever way" :-) -- 
Formula One winners don't seem to like it at all and spray it on
everyone. :-)
-- 

How about Brachetto d'Acqui? Piedmontese, dark pink, fizzy, sweet.
I thought you didn't like sweet wines!
PLEASE make up your mind before March 25th, or I'll end up bringing a
bottle of Coke (MY favourite drink, I confess).
;-) ;-P ;-D
Ciao
Frank

 Frascati.... called the Enoteca Frascati of course....
Of course.
You wouldn't consider having your break earlier and thus join us at our
forthcoming gathering would you?
You would be required to bring bolly/fizzy wine of course, but it would
surely be a small prince to pay.
Should you be unable to do so, I am certain I am not alone in hoping you
will enjoy your sojourn in the Eternal City.
--
I remain, as always, ecc., ecc.,
Bambi
dtb

 DRY! There's no such thing as "whichever way" :-)
It's not for me to have an opionion on it, really, since I am not
partial to champagne and have have never even seen Bollinger. One sip
of the bubbly and it goes straight to my head.
Nevertheless, the subject of Bollinger has interested me and I looked
up its French and UK sites.
http://www.champagne-bollinger.fr/
http://www.bollinger.co.uk/
Strangely, I could find no mention of "dry" or "sweet", "sec" or
"doux". Must be what they label "brut" for England, and the Rosé might
be "sweet". Best to be clear about this, so Frank will know what to
buy. Of the "brut", there are three types: Special Cuvée, Grande Anée,
and R.D. (in Britain "R.D. extra-brut").
What do you say, Frank? Two bottles each for Bambi and Isabella,
according to their respective preferences :-)  That's above the limit
you're allowed to bring into the country if you arrive from abroad. No
limit, of course, if you spare a bottle for the customs officer, or so
they say.


according to their respective preferences :-)  
Deal!


bottle of Coke (MY favourite drink, I confess).
That makes two of us-- but I only drink Diet... ("do you want me all
fat and spots?!"...)


What do you say, Frank? Two bottles each for Bambi and Isabella,
Of course: if I manage to win the Superenalotto before March 25th,
obviously.
:o))
--
Ciao
Frank

 DRY! There's no such thing as "whichever way" :-)
Depends who you're speaking with, non? The power of language and words.
In jest as always,


 excellent company, whichever way they may prefer their bolly.
Dear Xakero,
Many thanks indeed for both snippets of information read with interest and
glee. Do only we dtb's and British drink it? Alas, I cannot say.
However, it is so reassuring to know one is mixing with the right people -
appearances are everything of course
Trusting you will be joining us on the 25th,


 wrote in message
news:cDFr6.19467$x3.3...@news2.tin.it...

I'd love to see the characters in the group, and I'm sure this will happen
one day. You construct your own images of people from what they say ("the
best scenery is always on the radio"), and how pleasurable it would be to
compare imagination and reality - can Ron really be as intellectual as that?

This, Majesty, is a blatant untruth.
Why did you feel compelled to reply, I wonder...?


 compare imagination and reality - can Ron really be as intellectual as that?
We at the Institute of Neural Network Artificial Intelligence prefer the term
"pseudointellectual" to describe our handiwork, the Ron, a distributed
personality housed deep inside a mountain in the Rocky Mountains of Colorado.
The algorithms you observe are only initiated in appropriate circumstances and
casual interaction with the program would elicit an entirely different set from
the composite social behavior matrix. Given the private nature of our research
we cannot reveal the full feature set of this product of complex and diverse
data banks. However, we can disclose that incomplete analysis of trials with the
Ron instanced at social contexts in San Francisco suggest that casual
interactions tend to engage Charm Set algorithms which typically elicit smile
behavior from members of the general population within an average time of 86
seconds, as well as Absurd Set algorithms which typically elicit either laugh
behavior or a confused stare within an average time of 243 seconds. We are still
studying the correlation between fine wine, good food, inspiring music, and
delightful company to variations in algorithm expression and human reactions to
those expressions. A full report will be available when this project is
presented to the general public sometime after cloning technology has advanced
enough to reproduce instances of the Ron in adequate quantities to justify the
initial research expense.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 worst, say so :-D
This, Majesty, is a blatant untruth. The proof is in the pudding.


 personality housed...
ROTFL !
This is going straight to the Website.
I would like to open a 'who's who section', with this kind of information
on 'resident posters'.
But I will discuss this with their Majesties after a glass or two of Bolly.
Maybe three.
cheers,
Peltio

Maybe three.
Ehm... dear Peltio,
I wish to remind you that I'm not *that* wealthy.
You better try to get tipsy with just two or three drops.
Frank-KIRA, the bolly bringer.

 wrote in message
news:98r3h0$35d5l$1...@ID-55125.news.dfncis.de...

How can we Brits compete with this...? Our equivalent computer was built by
Wallis and Grommit, and uses a steam engine as motive power.

How can we Brits compete with this...? 
Stephen, dear, while you figure that out, would you please refrain
from reproducing the message you're responding to in your reply, in
its *entirety*? Please? I don't really need to re-read Ron's 44 (btw
totally side-splitting) lines before I read your two... see what I
mean? 
(BTW the Brits actually *invented* the Am's so you don't really need
to compete do you?)
Ever hopefully yours,


 I wish to remind you that I'm not *that* wealthy.
Am I entiteld to infer that tunneling has lead to nowhere?
How about trying the good old way?
Woody Allen should be holding a course for both techniques.
["Prendi i soldi e scappa" and... what's the title of last year's movie?]
saluti,
Peltio