Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: that I do

Giovanni


Parrebbero casi simili a questo:
"Prove your words."
"That I will. I swear by the Koran before you all that by this time 
to-morrow I will bring the British Resident from Kabul into our camp 
either as a hostage or as a corpse."
[...]
http://oreald.com/b12/ch16.html

 #2 That I will
Concluderai il lavoro.
Quello farò.
Queste risposte le potresti sentire spesso nel Meridione. In italiano  
standard son più rare (e, casomai, "questo" sostituisce "quello"), a 
vantaggio di altri rafforzativi. Per esempio:
Sembrano giovani.
Perché lo sono / E lo sono (infatti) / È quel che sono... 
Concluderai il lavoro.
Questo farò / Lo farò senz'altro.
Prova le tue parole.
È (proprio) quel che farò.
-- 
Bye, Lem
Ceterum censeo ISLAM esse delendum
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):

The inverted word order is a way of emphasizing agreement with the previous 
statement. "That" is a pronoun in this case, not a conjunction.
- They seem young.
- That, they are. (Note the comma!) = [Yes], they are that (i.e., 'young.')
(The comma isn't necessary and wouldn't be obvious in a spoken statement, but 
it's here for clarification.)
- You'll get it done.
- That, I will. (Yep! I'll get it done. = I will [do] that.)
-- 
Joey from NY
Remember: It is To Laugh

 Quello farò.
Ci ho pensato anche io ma, vedi, io quelle frasi non le ho _lette_, le 
ho _sentite_ (cioè, le ho anche controllate nei sottotitoli, ma le ho 
viste in tv).
Questo significa che non viene stressato nel tono il "That" nello stesso 
modo in cui in italiano si direbbe "QUELLO farò"...non so come dirti.
Se hai Independence Day ti posso indicare il punto esatto, è esattamente 
prima del discorso del presidente ai piloti che stanno per lanciare 
l'attacco coordinato alla navicella aliena.
-- 
 >Giovanni

 - That, I will. (Yep! I'll get it done. = I will [do] that.)
It seems clear then that to me the stress pattern used in the words of 
these kind of sentences is not so obvious and instant to get.
Uhm...could you have the chance of taking a look ad Independence Day?
-- 
 >Giovanni

 Uhm...could you have the chance of taking a look ad Independence Day?
Sure. In fact, it was aired on a local channel just the other day and I'm 
sure it'll be aired again soon. It's also available on Netflix but not 
streaming, so I'll have to wait for the DVD.


 Uhm...could you have the chance of taking a look ad Independence Day?
I should have said, "That I can." :)


 streaming, so I'll have to wait for the DVD.
Really? :-))) "aired"? "soon"? "wait"? "DVD"? I don't understand, it 
must be some kind of extinct language...greenlandic norse perhaps? ;-)
1) don't you "own" a "copy" of the movie yourself, already? I 
mean...Independence Day...really?
2) 
http://tinyurl.com/3vkuf8v
 -> it takes 15minutes on 8M ADSL.
naive human...
(cit.)
ciao ;-)
-- 
 >Giovanni

 I should have said, "That I can." :)
:)
-- 
 >Giovanni

 mean...Independence Day...really?
But seriously, no one owns DVDs any more, not with streaming video, DVR and 
Netflix rentals. I saw ID when it first came out in 1996 (maybe you weren't 
born then :P ) and haven't needed to see it again. I liked it and all, but...
It's on again Tuesday at 5:30. I'll DVR it, just to make you happy.


 It's on again Tuesday at 5:30. I'll DVR it, just to make you happy.
BTW, where I live the Independence Day dvd is sold for 3-4 euros. Just 
unwrap the  plastic shrinkwrap and you are done. No fuss, no muss.

 It's on again Tuesday at 5:30. I'll DVR it, just to make you happy.
I was it in Summer 1996 in Hastings, of course I was disgusted by all 
that lack of "sense", the technobabble and stupidity it was filled with.
Of course back then I was an integralist. Only then I learned the 
Suspension of Disbelief, to look beyond.
Now, it's been years actually, I consider it a pretty good movie, one of 
my favourite.
PS DVDRecorder? Does anybody actually own one? I've already got more 
things to watch than I'll be even able to...don't need other things to 
watch. Then when I owned a VCR I remember what used to happen: I'd 
record something, and never find the time to watch it...
-- 
 >Giovanni

 unwrap the plastic shrinkwrap and you are done. No fuss, no muss.
many dvds cost 3-4 euro, even less.
but then, unless it's a very good one, you don't want to fill your house 
with garbage and waste useful room.
-- 
 >Giovanni


Un altro esemmpio di inversione con "this", da The Practice 1.03
E' un  modo per mettere l'enfasi su "this".
They want to know why paperwork
isn't done yet. This I can handle.
But they're also asking about
this office expansion...

 Wolves SE 2 DVDs, Schindler's List SE 2 DVDs, Forrest Gump SE 2 DVDs...
Yeah, but even then, do you watch the extra features at all? Every time 
I try, I'm like, okay, enough with this shit already.
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.

 Yeah, but even then, do you watch the extra features at all? 
[...]
Depends. "Deleted scenes", for instance, are deleted for some good 
reasons, usually ;-)

 PS DVDRecorder? Does anybody actually own one?
My cable company provides service through a set-top box that includes a DVR, 
so it kind of goes with the territory. It's a blessing and a curse because of 
all the 'stuff' that I end up recording and then having trouble finding the 
time to watch. I was forced to retire just so I could manage it all. :)
-- 
Joey from NY
Remember: It is To Laugh
Among those whom I like or admire, I can find no common denominator,
but among those whom I love, I can: all of them make me laugh.
    -- WH Auden

 I try, I'm like, okay, enough with this shit already.
I used not to, but then I bought Forrest Gump SE 2 DVDs, and among the 
extra features there were documentaries on the making-of, the special 
effects, interview...
I get you point (since it was mine too - was? have been? had been?).
For instance I still can't bear to watch a whole movie with the 
commentary sound track on...I just can't waste that whole time!
Anyway in that documentary for instance I discovered the techniques used 
in the sound generation. An example is how they managed to produce 
different sounds for different kinds of rain while FG was in Vietnam.
Now as I said I own few DVDs, but only good quality one. For instance 
the documentary behind the production of The ten commandments was really 
enjoyable.
It seems clear to me that you must full of trivial DVDs whose extra 
feautures are rather trivial, as the movie itself.
It makes in fact no sense into owning trivial movies, IMVHO.
Of course then the divx argument holds, in a certain way, but I wouldn't 
discusse it in public.
-- 
 >Giovanni

 reasons, usually ;-)
I noted that having the chance of taking a look at them gave me the 
chance of understanding and appreciating the work of the editor, I mean 
how they manage not to make the movie longer than necessary, to "slim" 
it...as to say.
-- 
 >Giovanni

 time to watch. I was forced to retire just so I could manage it all. :)
Tell me, could you avoid paying the cable monthly fee, or without it 
your TV would be empty?
(I don't know, it's just a question)
-- 
 >Giovanni

 this office expansion...
Farei notare che se non metti l'intonazione (e nello scritto non si può 
mettere), la frase può significare due cose:
1)Vogliono sapere perché le carte non sono ancora pronte. Questo riesco 
a sopportarlo (ossia riesco a sopportare il fatto che vogliono sapere 
perché le carte non sono ancora pronte, ma per esempio non riesco a 
sopportare quello che viene dopo, per esempio i consigli su come fare il 
mio lavoro)
oppure
2)Vogliono sapere perché le carte non sono ancora pronte. Questo riesco 
a fare/gestire (ossia faccio quello che si può fare, sto già facendo del 
mio meglio).
Nota che in italiano ho usato due verbi diversi (sopportare, fare) 
mentre in inglese il verbo "handle" sarebbe in definitiva andato bene in 
entrambi i casi.
Ti dico questo perché la prima volta che ho letto il discorso, in mente 
mia l'ho intonato nel primo modo, perché una volta arrivata alla frase 
col "this" in realtà non sono stato molto attento a cosa diceva dopo.
Poi mi sono chiesto cosa c'entrasse con questo thread, e l'ho riletta. E 
mi sono accorto che si poteva interpretare nella maniera corretta, una 
volta che ci si accorgeva che ciò che diceva dopo era consistente solo 
con il secondo modo di interpretare il discoso.
Tutto questo per dire che in realtà ciò che mi lascia scocertato è 
l'intonazione della frase, nei film, nei due casi che ho riportato.
-- 
 >Giovanni

 mio meglio).
No, IMHO la 1) è proprio fuori discussione.
Il senso mi pare chiaro ed inequivocabile.
M'incalzano di domande sul perché le carte non son pronte. Questo fatto 
riesco a gestirlo (cioè: riesco a tenerli buoni colle mie risposte, 
riesco a prender tempo). Ma poi m'incalzano anche su... (e allora non so 
più che pesci pigliare).
-- 
Bye, Lem
Ceterum censeo ISLAM esse delendum
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 (I don't know, it's just a question)
In order to have anything at all worth watching, it's almost a necessity 
(where I live, anyway) to have a cable connection to some service provider or 
other. Over-the-air antennas are useless; even satellite dishes, in the 
'canyon of Manhattan' where my apartment is, wouldn't successfully connect. 
If I lived higher up or if there were no other tall buildings nearby, I could 
consider a satellite dish, but the cable offerings (fiber optic cable) are 
much better.
I do also have the streaming video box that connects to various providers via 
my wireless LAN, but the selections are not as broad as with cable TV 
channels.


 [...] Over-the-air antennas are useless; even satellite dishes,
Non svegliare il can che dorme!!!
-- 
Enrico il Pentolaio.

 più che pesci pigliare).
Scusa, ma tu in pratica dici che è la 1, no?
Io avevo immaginato anche la 2, nel senso "mi chiedono perché non ho 
finito. Questo riesco a fare, mica di più! Poi mi chiedono pure 
dell'espansione dell'ufficio...altro ancora!
Insomma, bisogna proprio vedere il contesto.
-- 
 >Giovanni

 channels.
May the Lord extempt me from ever needing such a solution :-)
-- 
 >Giovanni

 
Sorry. Is it too late to retract my statement? :)



Il contesto  è che quello poteva fare/gestire senza rischiare 
conseguenze. Cioè, fin lì poteva cavarsela, trovare giustificazioni. Ma 
sul resto no. Infatti, poi il povero Jimmy viene licenziato.

 Non svegliare il can che dorme!!!
Ma LOL! :D
Let's just whisper it:....sat dish, sat dish...!

 Scusa, ma tu in pratica dici che è la 1, no?
Uhm, direi di no. Tu nella 1) usi sopportare, dandogli un significato ben 
preciso (non riesco a sopportare... per esempio i consigli su come fare 
il mio lavoro): una cosa mi rompe le scatole, ma la sopporto, l'altra la 
trovo offensiva, e non la sopporto. 
La mia versione è completamente diversa. Non si tratta di essere annoiati 
od offesi. Si tratta di (immagino) clienti che si lamentano per il 
comportamento dello studio, e perché non capiscono che cosa stia 
succedendo. Bisogna tenerli buoni, prender tempo. Se fanno certe domande, 
ancora ancora ci si riesce. Se ne fanno altre, non si sa più che cosa 
dire.
Immagino:
- Perché le carte non sono ancora pronte?
- Eh, abbiamo avuto problemi a contattare Tizio per la deposizione... ho 
avuto la peste... Fukushima... blah blah... gli ufo... yada yada... la 
mucca pazza... Ma ora metto a posto tutto, ci lavoro al 100%.
- Ah sì? Ma come? Ho saputo che vi state ingrandendo, che state pigliando 
una marea di nuovi clienti. Siete già in ritardo con me, e pigliate altro 
lavoro? Come pensate di farcela?
- ...


 sul resto no. Infatti, poi il povero Jimmy viene licenziato.
Ah, sì, adesso mi sembra di ricordare! :)
Era per i finanziamenti allo studio, vero?


 channels.
May we further invade your sitting room privacy and ask what cable 
service provider you subscribed to? :-)
As to the cable-only channels, I only know about CNN for the news, and 
HBO, great series, oh yes, and History Channel.

On 25/04/2011, Giovanni "Darke" wrote:

To cut off the fat, and to just focus on the story, mood, etc., of the 
film. There are some deleted scenes which are good scenes per se but 
just don't belong with the rest of the movie.

 discusse it in public.
Let's make a for instance. Let's say I didn't own "The Practice" on 
DVD. How could I watch it legally in Italy, apart from being lucky and 
running into some reruns?

 Era per i finanziamenti allo studio, vero?
Yep! A construction loan under false pretences that will get Jimmy 
fired.

 How do you say in English "Chi si loda, s'imbroda"?
I don't have a clue how they say, but, if I had to, I guess I'd say 
something like "You praise yourself, you shit your pants". ;)
Mmh... A bit too gross, maybe. ;)


):

You're welcome in my living room at any time. (Maybe not all at once, 
though.)
I subscribe to Verizon FiOS. Some of the other cable channels, other than CNN 
and HBO, are Cinemax, Showtime, Starz, ePix, etc., a bunch of premium sports 
channels, the Disney Family channel and a slew of foreign-language channels, 
among which is RAI-USA, to which I subscribe. These all require an additional 
subscription charge, usually around $10 a month.
The History Channel is a free channel and one of my favorites.


 The History Channel is a free channel and one of my favorites.
Besides, documentaries are generally not too hard to understand for an 
ESL learner. Here are some of their shows with some free video clips.
http://www.history.com/shows

 running into some reruns?
Can you rent it via Blockbuster? Is there some PayPerView possibility? 
maybe you could borrow it from some of your friends :-)
Now you're talking about tv series, which don't easily fall into rental 
market. But for anything else (movies), rental applies.
TV series, then, are seldom watched over and over again. Actually very 
few movies are. There no sense in owning lots of DVDs...
-- 
 >Giovanni

 There no sense in owning lots of DVDs...
Maybe, maybe not. Not everything in life has to make sense, anyway. :-)

 *each* "premium" channel such as RAI-USA, Showtime and so on?
That's basically correct.
I got a "deal" for signing up with Verizon in December. They had just wired 
my building for FiOS and were looking to get a lot of subscribers. I got the 
middle-range of channels (Extreme HD) along with 6 months free of HBO and 
Cinemax, no set-up fee and an additional $10 discount for something or other. 
The base price is $69 per month*.
In June I'll have to decide whether or not to keep HBO or Cinemax (they will 
cost $22-something additional) but I'll probably drop them. I do pay the 
extra $10 for RAI-USA (maybe that's what the $10 discount is for, so I can 
have it for free? I don't remember. Old people have bad memories. :) I think 
I heard that somewhere.
I find that HBO's TV series are better than their movie line-up, but Cinemax 
has yet to present anything of interest. Between Netflix streaming and such, 
I'm okay with what I have. Netflix is $11 a month for unlimited streaming and 
one physical DVD at a time at home. I might keep HBO. We'll see.
*Sounds great, right? By the time they add all the surcharges and taxes, it's 
about $90, but that includes high-speed, fiber-optic Internet and nation-wide 
calling on my (seldom used any more) landline. And it's still cheaper than 
when I had TimeWarner for cable TV. Then I was paying about $160 for the 
three services and the Internet speed was only so-so.



I pay 39,90 per month only to surf the net (8 mbs/sec) and nation-wide 
landline calls.
But please, don't choose Rai-Usa over HBO, it's not really worth it... :-)

 Maybe, maybe not. Not everything in life has to make sense, anyway. :-)
yes, but I don't like to be slave of automatism, I don't like other 
people to choose in my place.
I mean, like for the book, it is "good" to "own" a copy of a book, a 
dvd, an action figure, whatever.
That's "collecting", which is self-referent, i.e. it exists for its own 
purpose and reasons.
So I avoid buying books when I can, I go to the library. I avoid buying 
dvd when I can, I rent them. The are economical and ecological reasons 
behind it, if you want.
-- 
 >Giovanni

 La mia versione è completamente diversa. Non si tratta di essere annoiati
I linguaggio scritto è totalmente insufficiente ad una buona 
comunicazione...oh bother!
-- 
 >Giovanni

 one physical DVD at a time at home. I might keep HBO. We'll see.
So it's another 11$...you pay a total of 69+11=80$ a month -> 960$ a year?
:-)
-- 
 >Giovanni

 But please, don't choose Rai-Usa over HBO, it's not really worth it... :-)
no, you also but "canone RAI" (it's taxes, it's compulsory, its name is 
misleading). 110€/year it's 9,16€/month.
so you pay 49,06€/month, so far (Sky/M$ Premium not included).
-- 
 >Giovanni

 o it's another 11$...you pay a total of 69+11=80$ a month -> 960$ a year?
Right. It's what folks from Boston call a "BAHgain!"
Seriously, it's all relative to what the market will bear, what's available 
and what one's needs are.
I pointed out that I had been paying around $160 before FiOS, so I feel 
lucky. And I guess I don't think of it in terms of what it costs per year. 
It's a monthly bill and I pay it gladly (more or less) but if I had to pay it 
all at once I'd choke on the bill.


 be careful when you praise yourself that it can turn against yourself?
Why "it can"? It does!
When you praise yourself, you're spoiling your image.


 Uhm...could you have the chance of taking a look ad Independence Day?
Watched most of it this morning. Yes, the stress is negligible; it's the 
context that counts, and there's no equivocation about what is meant.


 So I avoid buying books when I can, I go to the library. 
Depends. :-)

 three services and the Internet speed was only so-so.
Does that include calling toll free (800) numbers?

 summs up to a total of approximatly 4'500$, you could buy a car with that :-)
[...]
If you hitch-hike, you don't even need the car. But then, what are you 
going to do with all your money? ;-)

 don't have it at all. But I would more likely chose
[...]
"chooooooose", again! >:-(

 context that counts, and there's no equivocation about what is meant.
just wanted to be sure of it, as for the strage stress...
-- 
 >Giovanni

 When you praise yourself, you're spoiling your image.
why?
does it make any difference when I pray myself onto myself, or onto others?
-- 
 >Giovanni

 Depends. :-)
(I said "when I can"), anyway when does it depend, for isntance?
-- 
 >Giovanni


There was even a time when I went to a (sort of)  "DVD public library" 
to watch them, in the "Casa del cinema". But it took some time and 
effort, the choice of films and TV shows wasn't unlimited, I couldn't 
take my cats and a comfy couch with me, and, more importantly, that 
library has since been closed.

 person,  or possibly a "digital copy" person in the future. :-)
There are "on-demand" options for most of these channels where you can pay 
for a single program rather than subscribing. Even subscriptions don't have 
to be for a full year: you can opt out whenever you want. I don't know if 
there would be a fee for reinstatement if you decided to opt in again.


):

I guess that, in the context of what was happening, the 'stress' of the 
situation itself resulted in the speaker not 'stressing' his phrase properly. 
:)


 there would be a fee for reinstatement if you decided to opt in again.
Well, yes, but even if you subscribe to a good "on demand" option like 
HBO's, your choice is limited to "what's on" this week, that is to say 
the current schedule including a selection of shows and episodes.
| 
http://www.hboondemand.com/apps/hodschedule/hodcategory.do?CATG_ID=BTRS311
| 
http://www.hboondemand.com/faq.html
I prefer being able to set on my own personal "schedule", which I can 
by owning the shows either on  DVD or as digital copy,

 by
[...]

 by owning the shows either on  DVD or as digital copy,
Yes, of course. I'm not arguing that the 'on demand' choice is better or even 
convenient. It's just what's available. In point of fact, I have never used 
it. I guess I'm more of a 'go with the flow' kind of guy.


 :)
I'm not saying it was a mistake, I'm thinking that I'm not used to 
getting it right, as it sound strange to me, inside.
It has already happen other times, that I got something perfectly 
natural "unnatural".
it's complicated, but I think you understand
-- 
 >Giovanni

 since been closed.
you spoiled little kid.
when I was little we could watch Disney cartoons only on Christmas or 
Passover or at the "Cinema dei Piccoli" in Villa Borghese (Rome).
VCR were expensive, I myself got my first one in 1995. Had B&W TV till 
almost 1986 I think.
VHS had no multiple audio tracks, no subs.
you spoiled little kid... :-)))
-- 
 >Giovanni

 it's complicated, but I think you understand
I do understand.


 - Show quoted text -
Substituting the word "that" with the word "indeed" would mean the
same thing in this usage.

 same thing in this usage.
Good way of showing it.
I got it right, then, but then again I really think that they are badly 
or strangly stressed by the actors...
-- 
 >Giovanni

FINALMENTE ce l'ho fatta ed ho postato su youtube lo spezzone di 
Independence Day del quale parlavo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-b_ivS0a9M
They're a little young
That they are
Ora ditemi se non vi sembra detto un po' male.
Sì, il generale mette l'enfasi su "that", ma non così tanto...
-- 
 >Giovanni

):

To a native speaker (of AE, at least) there is nothing bad or strange or 
wrong or unusual about the stress.


 wrong or unusual about the stress.
you're not replying to the message in which I posted the video-link, so 
did you have the chance of watching it again? :-)
-- 
 >Giovanni

):

Oh, yes, sorry: I did see that post and I listened again even though I had 
watched the full movie a few days ago.
The phrase in question almost went past unnoticed while I was watching the 
movie. The clip you posted in that link made it easier to pinpoint.


):

Oh, yes, sorry: I did see that post and I listened again even though I had 
watched the full movie a few days ago.
The phrase in question almost went past unnoticed while I was watching the 
movie. The clip you posted in that link made it easier to pinpoint.
-- 


>> wrong or unusual about the stress.
Then the only plausible explanation (what is 'plausible deniability' 
btw? that ic can be denied with plausibilty? how would you translate 
it?) must be that the actor is not that good an actor after all.
I can feel it is /slightly/ streesed the way I expect it to be, but just 
a tiny bit.
-- 
 >Giovanni

 the actor is not that good an actor after all
I don't understand how you can extrapolate that inference from an actor who 
is speaking as one would normally speak in such a situation.


 is speaking as one would normally speak in such a situation.
I like a more "dramatic" (=theatrical) way of acting ;-)
it's a personal taste of mine.
-- 
 >Giovanni

):

Can you say "emote"? :)
