Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Re: Questions from an English speaker?

 Can someone explain this in English?
I'm just guessing...
It *should* be a shortened form for "Figurati (se e' un problema)"
(answer: it isn't), since "figurarsi" has an idiomatic usage in
expressions like "(Ma) Figurati se ci vado!" (meaning "Would you
imagine me going there? I don't have the least intention")
Now that you made me think about it, I have the impression that we
tend to use "Figurati" as a reply to "Grazie" above all when we are
asked for something that's supposed to be particularly bothering or
heavy for us (like a ride to the other part of the town at rush
hour). But this is just MY impression.

 As in "Grazie"  - (risposto) "Figurati"
i'm italian so sorry for my english :)
if i understand right your question, you don't understand the means of
"figurati" as "no problem".
Yours is a hard question because there isn't a logic connection behind the
use of "Figurati". Probaby it derives from a complete phrase such as
"figurati come avrei potuto avere qualche problema" or "figurati se non
fossi stato capace di aiutarti" but sincerily i really don't know. Perhaps
someone in this ng knows why, in my opinion you shouldn't worry about
it. Imparala a memoria e basta (sorry but i don't know how translate it
:)). bye 

>seems to be "no problem" or "it's nothing".
Oh, I see. The connection... hell, I don't know.
Well, the verb is "figurare". It has various meanings. One of them is "to
imagine".
Examples from my dictionary:
1 (= plasmare) to shape, to form, to fashion, to *give shape to
2 (= descrivere) to describe, to picture
3 (= rappresentare) to represent, to symbolize
¶ la fortuna è figurata da una dea bendata (Lady) Fortune is represented as
a blindfold goddess; la colomba figura la pace the dove symbolizes peace
4 (= immaginare) to figure, to imagine, to picture, to envisage, to
visualize, to *think
¶ questo preventivo è più costoso di come me lo figuravo this estimate is
more expensive than I thought; figuratevi la nostra meraviglia davanti a un
simile spettacolo imagine our amazement at such a spectacle; “scusami del
fastidio” “ma figurati!” “sorry for the bother” “not at all!”; me lo
figuravo più intelligente I had imagined him more intelligent
5 (= fingere) to pretend
¶ figurò di non ricordare he pretended that he didn’ t remember
B aus avere vi V(+IN)
1 (= fare figura) to look smart/spruce, to *cut a dash
¶ veste sempre in modo da figurare he always dresses to look smart
2 (= stare/trovarsi) to *be, to appear, to figure
¶ non credo che il suo nome figuri tra quello degli invitati I don’ t think
his name appears on the guest list; tra gli ospiti figuravano molte persone
famose many famous people appeared among the guests
3 (= apparire) to appear, to figure, to *show, to feature.
I don't know about the connection. Anyway, it's an etymological issue.
When I started studying English I was not able to see the connection
between "you are welcome (in our family)", "you're welcome (to use it) and
"you're welcome" after a "thank you". I still can't see it, but that's not
a problem. It's like one of the many words with more than one meaning.
A log can be made of wood, or it can be something where you record - for
example - goods.
And you can log wood, log into a computer, etc.
What's the connection between those meanings? I don't know. :)
Sebastiano
-- 
J.D. : Time to take the "GR" off my Gratitude and give that old bastard
some Attitude, J.D. style.
[Walks off]
Nurse Carla Espinosa : His office is that way.
J.D. : Yeah, I have to throw up first. 

 Porco!
da te mi sarei aspettato... ehm.... non dico un "Pork!", ma almeno un "Pig!" 
sě   ;-) 

 curiosity killed the cat. Keeetzl, watch out! :)
AS A SIGN OF MOURNING, ANCIENT EGYPTIANS SHAVED OFF THEIR EYEBROWS WHEN
THEIR CATS DIED.
-- 
In case you're new to this NG, haven't been paying attention, have very
limited knowledge of English, or have Alzheimer's, let me state that the
foregoing is my opinion of modern, colloquial, American English. (With
apologies to the regular readers and the healthy, for the repetition.) I
point this out to avoid confusing the reader; references to British English
may appear to contradict the foregoing.
(And if you can read and comprehend the immediate foregoing message, your
level of English is not all that bad. :)
If you feel the need to e-mail me, un-not my address first.

 biografia di Paris Hilton
in my country we call similar people "manze"


"se sono stato" non "se stavo" :-) 

 curiosity killed the cat.
And grammar, if I see what you and Chiaroscuro * mean. (smiling face)
* welcome!
Bye, FB
-- 
"The doctors found out that Bunbury could not live, that is what I mean—so
Bunbury died".
"He seems to have had great confidence in the opinion of his physicians".
("The Importance of Being Earnest", Oscar Wilde)

>Can someone explain this in English?
it's just a courtesy form as far as I know, no matter where it arises from.
I can provide some examples (helping myself with my dictionary):
1)
**
After several hours spent talking...
Mario: "Ti sto annoiando?"
Carlo: "Ma figurati!"   <- in this case "ma figurati" means no.
**
Don't forget Carlo could have also said "Figurati" or "Ma dai!" to
emphasize denial.
2)
**
Mario: "Sai che Andrea ha parlato di te con Giovanni?"
Carlo: "Figuriamoci!"  <- in this case figuriamoci means "go figure how bad
he talked about me!"
-- 
Yeah, whatever...

Prima di tutto bisogna distinguere tra la forma "normale" e quella
riflessiva; tra "figurare" e "figurarsi".
Consideriamo solo quella riflessiva e analizziamo i seguenti esempi.
1.	Anna è molto brava in matematica. Carlo, invece, non se la cava
molto bene. Ieri hanno sostenuto un esame di matematica. Marco, un
amico di Anna e Carlo, chiede a Carlo com'è andato l'esame:
-	Ciao, Carlo! Com'è andato l'esame di matematica?
-	Male. Figurati che non l'ha passato nemmeno Anna.
Oppure:
-	Male. Non l'ha passato nemmeno Anna, figurati se potevo passarlo io!
In entrambe le risposte si poteva usare il verbo "pensare" al posto di
"figurarsi":
-	Male. Pensa che non l'ha passato nemmeno Anna.
-	Male. Non l'ha passato nemmeno Anna, pensa se potevo passarlo io!
2.	Paolo è molto arrabbiato con Roberto. Figurati che non è neanche
venuto al suo compleanno.
3.	Luigi non è neanche andato al matrimonio di sua figlia. Figurati se
viene al tuo!
Da queste frasi si nota che "figurati" è seguito da "se" o da "che".
Quando è seguito da "che" può essere sostituito dalla locuzione
"sembra incredibile ma…"
-	Male. Figurati che non l'ha passato nemmeno Anna.
-	Male. Sembra incredibile ma non l'ha passato nemmeno Anna.
-	Paolo è molto arrabbiato con Roberto. Figurati che non è neanche
venuto al suo compleanno.
-	Paolo è molto arrabbiato con Roberto. Sembra incredibile ma non è
neanche venuto al suo compleanno.
Quando è seguito da "se" può essere sostituito dalla locuzione "è
ovvio che non…"
-	Male. Non l'ha passato nemmeno Anna, figurati se potevo passarlo io!
-	Male. Non l'ha passato nemmeno Anna, è ovvio che non potevo passarlo
io!
Luigi non è neanche andato al matrimonio di sua figlia. Figurati se
viene al tuo!
Luigi non è neanche andato al matrimonio di sua figlia. E' ovvio che
non viene al tuo!
Quando usiamo"figurati" dopo un "Grazie" usiamo una forma ellittica di
una frase simile a questa:
-	Grazie!
-	Figurati (se mi devi ringraziare) cioè E' ovvio che non mi devi
ringraziare. (non pensare nemmeno di dovermi ringraziare)
Spero di esserti stato d'aiuto. Potresti tradurre gli esempi in
inglese?

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:18:37 GMT, "Gekko" <gi...@liberoNOSPAM.it>
wrote:

DOH!  Grazie per la correzione, sbaglio  tanto con l'imperfetto contro
il passato prossimo. Conosco le regole, ma  le regole non sono sempre
adattato  ai miei pensieri! 
<inglese>
In this case, I thought since living here was an ongoing thing, that
the imperfect would be required, but since I qualified it with "4
anni" it reqires the passato prossimo -  is that correct?
I guess this is another problem for english speakers - i.e. the use of
the past tense in Italian. And don't even mention the preterite
(passato remoto) ... 
</inglese>
P.S.
Quanti sanno la provenienza di <DOH!> ?

 PS -  your  cat is dead.
That's why I wasn't able to see it! Damn, now I have to shave my eyebrows. 
^_^
Sebastiano
-- 
B.A. Baracus : I pity the fool who goes out tryin' a' take over da world,
than runs home crin' to his momma! 

That's why I wasn't able to see it! Damn, now I have to shave my eyebrows. 
hahahahahahah
Now *that* was truly inspired. Cracked me up.

 THEIR CATS DIED.
Really? How cute! :)
Sebastiano
-- 
Amy : Hannibal's plans never work right. They just work. 

 Quanti sanno la provenienza di <DOH!> ?
I don't know where it came from, but I know it's famous because of The
Simpsons. Homer Simpson!
Sebastiano
-- 
Dr. Kelso : I am considering offering full body scans here at Sacred
Hearts. What do you think?
Dr. Cox : I think showing perfectly healthy people every harmless
imperfection in their body just to scare them into taking an invasive and
often pointless test is an... unholy sin!
Dr. Kelso : Yeah, sounds a little sketchy ethically. 

 ^_^
woe betide you if you forget to embalm it :|
-- 
Yeah, whatever...


Tony,
Si, ho capito (finalmente), fa senso,  Grazie. 
(ora devi dire "figurati")

 (faccia di gatto sorridente)
I have been told that Curiosity is a girl from that city.
Sebastiano/don't meow out loud
-- 
Sydney : How do I look?
Marcus Dixon : For the record, that's a question you never have to ask. 

Simpsons. Homer Simpson!
Urra - hai vinto  una Ferrari!  VV Homer!

 Si, ho capito (finalmente), fa senso,  Grazie. 
*ha* senso.
*fa* senso means "it's disgusting". *Now* you can read Joe's marvellous
line. :)
Sebastiano
-- 
Eddie : Today we're going to turn a government building into a cemetery. 

 leggendo i fumettti perché usano il dialogo.  Grazie al Zio Paperone!
you can say "grazie a Zio Paperone" or "grazie allo Zio Paperone" :)
(also: Grazie Zio Paperone!)
-- 
Yeah, whatever...


The proper use of fa senso versus ha senso may be inferred from the
following phrase:
Č corretto dire: "'L'acqua del lago fa senso' ha un senso, anche se
l'acqua del lago non fa mica senso"?
:>)
Joe from Masschusetts

line. :)
Here it is again:
Č corretto dire: "'L'acqua del lago fa senso' ha un senso, anche se
l'acqua del lago non fa mica senso"?
Sono imbarazzato, ma per me la frase non HA senso, magari sono un po'
denso?   (Scherzo, scherzo, non mi crucifiggete, per favore!)
Another word I have problems with is "mica" - I see the dictionary
definitions of "not" , "hardly" , "not at all" and understand common
usage like "mica male" , but sometimes this word just (stand by for
idiom) throws me for a loop. 
Could someone please translate this sentence in English, so maybe I
can understand it better?
What it seems to me - "(that the) the lake water is disgusting makes
sense, also if the water of the lake is not disgusting" ???
Thanks for your patience 
chiaro (bonehead) scuro

 can understand it better?
- "Lake water is disgusting" makes sense, even though lake water is not
disgusting -

 sense, also if the water of the lake is not disgusting" ???
Yeah, that is. "the lake water i disgusting" is the subject of "makes
sense. 
Sebastiano
-- 
Cate : Ok, girls. Broccoli or zucchini?
Bridget : What? For dinner?
Kerry : [sarcastically] No... She's making a hat! 

 non costa mica molto it doesn’ t cost much at all
Never heard of "mica molto". I've always only heard "mica tanto".
Bye, FB
-- 
Nasalization is just a part of life.
(Joey DoWop Dee on it.cultura.linguistica.inglese)

 I've always only heard "mica tanto".
Me too.
Sebastiano
-- 
George Jefferson : She's what you call, a domestic.
Louise Jefferson : You make it sound like a disease! 

 sense, also if the water of the lake is not disgusting" ???
Actually, that sentence is a result of someone having taken me to task
on this newsgroup, for using "fa senso" instead of "ha senso", exactly
in the way you have done.
To show the group that I had learned my lesson, I posted a sentence
which I thought would show that I finally understood the difference,
and at the same time inject a little humor by making it a little
cryptic and difficult to decipher.
After my error was pointed out to me (by Ice, I think) , my original
reply to the correction was:
 "Allora sarebbe corretto dire: "La frase <bere l'acqua del lago fa
senso> ha un senso, anche se l'acqua del   lago non fa mica senso"?
In English, it was:
Well, then, would it be correct to say:  "The phrase <Drinking the
water of the lake is disgusting> makes sense, even if drinking the
water of the lake isn't at all disgusting?"
In other words, "Drinking the water of the lake is disgusting" is a
phrase that makes sense (grammatically), even though it is untrue that
the water of the lake is disgusting. Wait a minute, is that right? Now
I'm confused!    :>)
It's not funny in English, or even cryptic.
I got a reply (I think it, too, was from Ice), saying something like
"Yes, it's correct, but I wasted ten minutes trying to figure out what
the heck you were saying."
Joe from Massachusetts


Why don't you pick on Cheshire for a change, or are you afraid of
Alice?  :>)
Joe from Massachusetts