Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: didn't...would be

I'm reading some English books translated from Korean and I keep seeing 
the form "did...would" over and over. For instance:
   If he didn't do that he would still be alive.
That sounds completely wrong to me. Is it acceptable in informal English?
 
-- 
Kiuhnm
 
Mosquitoes are stingy.

 That sounds completely wrong to me. Is it acceptable in informal English?
 
"nine native speakers of American English were interviewed 
individually.  Five had various occupations, while the other four were 
ESL teachers and graduate students in ESL. Oral interviews were 
audiotaped and the  /wish/ sentences were later transcribed from the 
tapes.
The participants were asked to speak about “something minor in the past 
that did not go as well as they had hoped or something that they 
regretted doing or not doing” in their lives. results"
 
"Results"
"Past Counterfactual If-Clauses"
"The oral data for past counterfactual if-clauses (29 sentences) were 
categorized into the following three patterns ..."
 
[...]
 
"Two sentences (7%) used the simple past in past counterfactual 
subordinate clauses:"
 
"16. I probably would’ve gone to bed a little bit earlier if you didn’t 
come down."
 
"17. If I didn’t have a twin sister in high school I would’ve been 
alone, and I wouldn’t have had a friend to talk to and to talk about 
high school with."
 
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/285004249_I_Wish_I_Would_Have_Known_The_Usage_of_Would_Have_in_Past_Counterfactual_If-_and_Wish-Clauses
 

 That sounds completely wrong to me. Is it acceptable in informal English?
 
That example I would consider substandard.
If he hadn't done that he would still be alive.
Of course the meaning changes, too. In the correctly written sentence we 
know he is dead. The improperly written sentence introduces some 
paradoxical ambiguity.
 
However, there are some did/would sentences that I would not object to 
in which future behavior is implied.
 
 

 in which future behavior is implied.
 
Are you thinking about something like
   He did what he thought would benefit him the most.
?
 
That's not a hypothetical sentence, though.



Credo che i numeri siano un po' troppo bassi per essere significativi. 
Inoltre non è inusuale commettere degli errori parlando, errori che 
anche l'ascoltatore giudicherà come tali.


 l'ascoltatore giudicherà come tali.
 
Questo dipende dall'ascoltatore a cui lo domandi, cosa considera 
accettabile e cosa no, e quanto è sincero: una cosa è esprimere giudizi 
in pubblico, tutti perfettini!, altra cosa il linguaggio che si usa 
realmente in famiglia o con gli amici.

 which future behavior is implied.
 
Per esempio?

 That's not a hypothetical sentence, though.
 
Is that a coy request for a hypothetical example?
 
Remember, "I would not object" is different from "I would say."
 
If you didn't cover the pan with aluminum foil, the top would be crispier.
 
Someone might say the previous sentence while watching someone else 
cover a pan with aluminum foil, open the oven door, and begin to slide 
the pan into the oven. At least in this example the time ambiguity is 
milder and the visibility of the action offers clarification. The pan is 
already covered with foil, so that's a past event. The lack of 
crispiness is a hypothetical future event.
 
However, I would prefer to say, If you don't cover the pan with aluminum 
foil, the top will be crispier.
 
Even though the pan is already covered. I am optimistic that the action 
could be reversed, and I speak to that hypothetical condition.
 
Or, after the deed is done:
If you hadn't covered the pan with aluminum foil, the top would have 
been crispier.
 

 That sounds completely wrong to me. Is it acceptable in informal English?
 
un commento da StackExchange
 
Reading the comments on another answer, the OP took the sentence from 
Michael Swan's Practical Usage:
 
    If I didn't have my walking boots on, I think I would have really 
hurt my foot,
 
and extrapolating from it, asked whether simple past can be used in 
conditional statements rather than past perfect for unreal past 
conditions. The answer is "no". An American would only say that 
sentence if he still had his walking boots on. So this is a statement 
with an unreal present condition, and a past consequence. This 
construction is rare, because consequences tend to occur after the 
hypotheticals.
 
Is this construction grammatical in the U.S.? I suspect you would get 
disagreement among Americans about that. However, I believe that Swan 
is right about it being used.
 
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/60008/if-conditional-didnt-vs-hadnt
 


This is another valid example, in my opinion:
   If you didn't always cover the pan with aluminum foil, the top would 
be crispier.


 right about it being used.
 
Be that as it may, I won't be using that construction anytime soon.


Kiuhnm submitted this idea :

Tuttavia puoi cantare...  If I didn't care Would it be the same? Would 
my every prayer Begin and end with just your name?
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvwfLe6sLis
 

 
 
Dovrebbe essere sbagliato, infatti. In quel caso, in italiano, if + past 
si tradurrebbe con il conguntivo imperfetto. Per esempio:
"If I went by bus it would be cheaper."
"Se andassi in tram, spenderei meno."
 
Sto facendo un'ipotesi, non sono ancora partito.
 
Se dicessi:
"If he didn't do that he would still be alive"
 
dovrei tradurre così:
"Se non facesse ciò, sarebbe ancora vivo"
Paradossale.
 

danilob brought next idea :

Certo, traducendo in italiano letteralmente diventa una frase 
paradossale, però "didn't" vale sia il nostro "non facesse" sia "non 
fece"/"non faceva", secondo il contesto. Anche in italiano informale 
capira di dire "Se non faceva" in luogo di "Se non avesse fatto".
"Se non prendeva il lampione, sarebbe ancora vivo".
In questo caso, la forma farà aggrottare le ciglia a taluni ma il 
contenuto non è paradossale.
Suppongo che anche i native speaker inglesi che usano "if he didn't... 
he would be alive..." e simili, in maniera non formalmente corretta, 
intendono comunque quello che noi esprimiamo con il congiuntivo 
trapassato, cioè dicono qualcosa come "se non faceva ciò.... sarebbe 
ancora vivo" per significare "se non avesse fatto ciò... sarebbe ancora 
vivo".

 Suppongo che anche i native ... intendono
 
Anche questo informale.
"intendano"