Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: In the middle of the way of our life

Nel mezzo del cammin di nostra vita
mi ritrovai per una selva oscura
ché la diritta via era smarrita.
http://www.divinecomedy.org/divine_comedy.html
	MIDWAY upon the journey of our life
I found myself within a forest dark,
For the straightforward pathway had been lost.
Henry W. Longfellow Translation
---
IN the midway of this our mortal life,
I found me in a gloomy wood, astray
Gone from the path direct: and e'en to tell
H.F. Cary Translation
-----
When I had journeyed half of our life's way,
I found myself within a shadowed forest,
for I had lost the path that does not stray.
Mandelbaum Translation
------
Which translation you prefer? I prefer the first. It is more pertinent
to the original text, and I think when it is possible is the better
way.
The allegoric vision  is conveyed by the metaphoric immage of our
"cammino" which give us the idea of the  human existence's effort. (è
scritto bene?).
 That's why I think translating it by "journey" perhaps doesn't give
us the right idea. It  seem to me that journey give the idea of
viaggio, tragitto; on the contrary "way" give us more the idea of
struggle, effor.
The same for "midway", perhaps "middle" convey better the hint about
the human existence's centre.
In the middle of the way of our life
I found myself within a forest dark,
For the straightforward pathway had been lost.
Forse in inglese quei due of sono un po' bruttini.

 Forse in inglese quei due of sono un po' bruttini.
"the way of our life" mi fa pensare piu' a "modo" che a "cammino".

 struggle, effor[t].
This implies that you don't like the term "journey," but that's what the 
first version uses, which you say you prefer.
After Mandelbaum, I would choose Longfellow. I don't care for Cary's at all.
In your own version, rather than "...of the way of our life" I suggest the 
Anglo-Saxon "...of our life's way"
-- 
Joe/Joey da New York
English as she is spoken (and sometimes written) in the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_As_She_Is_Spoke

 first version uses, which you say you prefer.
I prefer the process of translating, but "journey", in that context
seems perhaps don't fits very well.
But it is just a consideration of mine, I haven't the clear sense of
the word, and my supposition is based
on dictionary translations.
ciao

 On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 20:42:46 -0500, accademiadelgattonero
 

  A metï¿œt strada dal nustri lambicï¿œ
  mi soj cjatï¿œt ta un bosc cussï¿œ scur
  che'l troj just i no podevi pï¿œ cjatï¿œ.
  A contï¿œlu di nï¿œuf a ï¿œ propit dur:
  stu post salvï¿œdi al sgrifï¿œva par dut
  che al pensï¿œighi al fa di nï¿œuf timour!
  Che colp amï¿œr!  Murï¿œ a l'era puc pi brut!
  Ma par tratï¿œ dal ben chi'ai cjatï¿œt
  i parlarï¿œi dal altri chi'ai jodï¿œt.
[...]
  L'alta fantasia no'a chï¿œ nuja podï¿œt;
  ma zï¿œ'l zirï¿œva'l volï¿œj me, e'i desidï¿œris,
  com'roda che ben a zira'n dut e par dut,
  l'amï¿œu che'l sorï¿œli'l mï¿œuf a l'altri stelis.
Tradusï¿œda tal furlï¿œn di San Zuï¿œn di Cjasï¿œrsa
da Ermes Culos
http://www.ermesculos.com/
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/16190
-- 
"Cromwell's soldiers were great whoresmen. They travelled on
whoresback, ate on whoresback & even slept on whoresback."
                -- Exam howlers as noted by Eric W. N. Smith

   che'l troj just i no podevi pï¿œ cjatï¿œ.
<snip>
Thanks! Fascinating.


"Joe/Joey da New York" <joe...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
news:0001HW.C78702CD...@news.eternal-september.org...

Agreed about the difficulties , of course . Like Joe , I don't like the 
Cary - too archaic and unnatural .
Of those you quote , I prefer the Longfellow . I just find Mandelbaum's 'the 
path that does not stray' too odd . I think the word 'smarrita' is the 
difficulty in translation (I mean because it's the via , not the traveller , 
that is 'smarrita' ; the idea I have is that the path has become unclear , 
but the guidance of a native speaker would be useful) , but Mandelbaum's 
version seems to introduce a sort of play of ideas not in the original , and 
I wonder whether the need to rhyme played its part (the others don't bother) 
.
I too think that 'journey' is a bit too abstract - I'd prefer 'path' (or 
'road' ) ; but I think many have chosen 'journey' because it's metrically 
easier than the monosyllables .
'Halfway along life's path I found myself in a dark wood , the direct way 
having become unclear' might be my prose version , but I won't attempt it in 
verse !
Mike 

 verse !
Of course also my attempt doesn't want to be a translation but an
experiment how the translation should be operate.
ciao

 Forse in inglese quei due of sono un po' bruttini.
No guarda. Son tutti brutti, specie per gli italiani. Lascia perdere. Se 
voglion leggere la divina commedia che imparino l'italiano, o si 
limitino a Shakespeare o ai riassunti.

Ragnarok ha scritto:

Ma che razza di discorso �?!?!?!?

 Ma che razza di discorso �?!?!?!?
La traduzione della poesia � una storpiatura doppia, si storpia il 
significato che ha dato l'autore pesando ogni parola, come in ogni 
traduzione, ma si storpia pure la metrica. Cos� pure in ogni altro 
componimento diverso dalla prosa.
Chi vuol leggere autori in lingua diversa da quella in cui hanno scritto 
dovrebbe limitarsi alla prosa con l'avvertenza che sta leggendo una mera 
traduzione.

 
I agree 1000%.


 I agree 1000%.
OK, but we could not read the 90% of world literature...
How many languages can you read?
Do you know hindi or japanese? Polish? Russian? ...
-- 
Pâs gàr ho aitôn lambánei, kaì ho zetôn heurískei, kaì tô kroúonti 
anoigésetai
(Euaggélion katà Loûkan 11,10)

 Do you know hindi or japanese? Polish? Russian? ...
Maybe I misunderstood the OP. What I thought he was saying was that to render 
a poem in another language in the most effective way is to translate as 
literally as possible, with the understanding that the translation aims to 
convey the meaning, rather than to create a "new" poem in a different 
language, with the same meaning.
That being the case, [as a rabid linguaphile] I would want a side-by-side 
printing: original language on one side, parallel prose translation on the 
other. I would "read" the original, whether I knew the language or not, to 
get the feel of the words, rhyme and meter. The meaning would come from 
across the page.
Japanese, no, but a smattering of Russian, most of the Romance Languages, 
Dutch and Yiddish. Not many words in Mandarin. Curious about Catalan, 
perplexed by Polish (especially the spelling), gripped by Greek and terrified 
by Turkish. There are others. Mind you, I'm not fluent in any of these, but 
my curiosity in a new language can be piqued by the slightest reference, and 
I'm off to the bookstore for a grammar book.
Maybe I'm not normal, though. :)


 I'm off to the bookstore for a grammar book.
When I get a "testo originale a fronte" I always try to read the 
original one besides tthe translation.


 Maybe I'm not normal, though. :)
Try swahili grammar... the classes... the verb... 
BONK!!!
[I hit my desk with my forehead, in despair]
-- 
"La cosa piï¿œ deliziosa non ï¿œ non avere nulla da fare. E' avere
qualcosa da fare e non farla."
                -- Marcel Achard (1899-1974)

 [I hit my desk with my forehead, in despair]
Naweza kuchukua picha yako.


 Naweza kuchukua picha yako.
Should I spend my next week-end trying to translate that?
My only ready-for-use swahili is "akuna matata".
-- 
"A ship is always referred to as 'she' because it costs so much
to keep one in paint and powder."
                -- Nimitz, Fleet Admiral Chester William

 
Nah, don't trouble yourself.
I studied a little Swahili in the 19XXs, and have only three sentences 
remaining in my consciousness.
They are:
Naweza kuchukua picha yako.
I want to take your picture. ( I love this: picha=picture.)
Kitanda kimoja kitatosha.
One bed will be enough.
and lastly
Mimi nyama, wewe kisu.
I am the meat, you are the knife. (I am in your power.)
It would have been enough to get along pretty well 
just about anywhere. :)
