Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Frase in firma per forum in inglese

Volevo mettere nei vari forum in lingua inglese in cui mi trovo a scrivere 
una frase in firma per "mettere le mani avanti" per i miei inevitabili 
strafalcioni. Però vorrei che almeno la firma fosse corretta...
Cosa ne dite di:
"Sorry for my bad english, but I'm italian and I don't speak english very 
well"
Può andare?
-- 
Massy
Day by day and night by night we were together
all else has long been forgotten by me
Walt Whitman 

 Puň andare?
Sě, va bene. Posso offrire un'altra frase?
Please have patience with my English, I'm Italian and I'm still learning the 
language. 

 the language.
Intendevo scrivere un punto dopo "English". 

 Intendevo scrivere un punto dopo "English". 
Does it make such a big difference? It seems fine to me.
-- 
Don't f*ck with me bitch, I'm the mightiest sorcerer of the lands.

 Does it make such a big difference? It seems fine to me.
It's two sentences.

Does it make such a big difference? It seems fine to me.
This called a "comma splice" - joining two sentences with a comma.
It isn't done in English. You could use a semicolon here though.
But in any case, I think the words are meant to be spoken, in
which case the punctuation is invisible!
-- 
Raymot
-------
Brisbane, Aus.

 which case the punctuation is invisible!
Da italiano, in quella frase avrei usato i due punti... Sarebbe corretto 
anche in inglese? 

 anche in inglese?
Non sarebbe errato. Si tratta di stile. 

 which case the punctuation is invisible!
Oh, alright. I never heard about this before, thanks!



And here *my* style suggests:
Non sarebbe errato: si tratta di stile.
:-) 

 Non sarebbe errato: si tratta di stile.
Ma l'unico ignorantone che ci metterebbe senza esitazione una virgola 
sono io?
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
-- 
"E come si sa?" "Da una serie di deduzioni per il rispetto che si deve 
all'intelligenza."

 sono io?
No, other ignorant people as well :-)))
Kiuhnm



Mi accodo all'Ignorant Train! :-))
-- 
Anna


Indeed I was referring to you, not to me :-)))))))
Joking aside, a comma can be used as a pause or a separator in a list, 
but never as a conjunction. That's what I was told.
Kiuhnm


taught
Kiuhnm

, 
mymoDOT...@libero.it
 says...

Yes, that's perhaps even better. Just not a comma.


Kiuhnm
Indeed, you are right. No doubt it is acceptable in Italian,
and so most Italians assume it's correct in English. It's not.
Nor is it a matter of style. Many commas are optionals. Using
a comma as a conjunction is ungrammatical (in English).


 a comma as a conjunction is ungrammatical (in English).
In italiano invece la virgola tra due frasi le renderebbe 'coordinate per 
asindeto', se non ricordo male... 

 No doubt it is acceptable in Italian,
Non in uno scritto formale, IMHO.
Eppure può essere un sistema per imitare il parlato, trasmettere un
senso di velocità e immediatezza. Forse funziona anche in inglese,
pur essendo contrario alle regole auree del Good Writing? :)
Leggo ad esempio:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_splice
[...]
Strunk & White note that splices are sometimes acceptable when the
clauses are short and alike in form, such as:
    The gate swung apart, the bridge fell, the portcullis was drawn
up.
(Examples adapted from the online, public-domain 1918 edition of The
Elements of Style.)
Some writers are less prescriptive. This is what Fowler[2] (third
edition, 1996) has to say: "We are all accustomed to the ...
conjoined sentences that turn up from children or from our less
literate friends... Curiously, this habit of writing comma-joined
sentences is not uncommon in both older and present-day fiction.
Modern examples: I have the bed still, it is in every way suitable
for the old house where I live now (E. Jolley); Marcus ... was of
course already quite a famous man, Ludens had even heard of him from
friends at Cambridge (I. Murdoch)."
The comma splice is often considered acceptable in poetic writing.
The editors of the Jerusalem Bible translate Isaiah 11:4 as:
    His word is a rock that strikes the ruthless, his sentences bring
death to the wicked.[3]
Lynne Truss[4] observes: "so many highly respected writers observe
the splice comma that a rather unfair rule emerges on this one: only
do it if you're famous." She cites Samuel Beckett, E. M. Forster, and
Somerset Maugham. "Done knowingly by an established writer, the comma
splice is effective, poetic, dashing. Done equally knowingly by
people who are not published writers, it can look weak or
presumptuous. Done ignorantly by ignorant people, it is awful."
Grammarians differ as to whether a comma splice also constitutes a
run-on sentence. Some define run-on sentences to include comma
splices,[5] but others limit the term to strictly mean those in which
independent clauses are joined without any punctuation, excluding
comma splices.[6] [7]

 asindeto', se non ricordo male... 
E' vero! "per polisindeto" invece si ha in presenza di congiunzioni. Ah, 
la grammatica...
:-)


 :-)
Veni, vidi, vici.
Kiuhnm

 Veni, vidi, vici.
Aspe'. :)
L'asindeto č una figura retorica che riguarda una lista. Si usa anche
in inglese (vedi sotto).
Ma il fatto che esista l'asindeto non rende formalmente inappuntabile
qualsiasi comma splice, neanche in italiano, IMHO, nei casi in cui
due punti, un punto e virgola o un punto secco farebbero piů bella
figura.
Ad esempio, mi suonerebbe piů colloquiale la frase 
"L'asindeto č una figura retorica che riguarda una lista, si usa
anche in inglese."
http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/asyndeton
ASYNDETON
Noun
1. A figure which omits the connective; as, I came, I saw, I
conquered. It stands opposed to polysyndeton.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)
 
Etymology: Asyndeton \A*syn"de*ton\, noun. [Latin expression, from
the Greek expression, from unconnected; 'a priv. bound together, from
with to bind.]. (Websters 1913)
 
http://www.virtualsalt.com/rhetoric.htm#Asyndeton
Asyndeton consists of omitting conjunctions between words, phrases,
or clauses. In a list of items, asyndeton gives the effect of
unpremeditated multiplicity, of an extemporaneous rather than a
labored account:
On his return he received medals, honors, treasures, titles, fame. 
The lack of the "and" conjunction gives the impression that the list
is perhaps not complete. Compare:
She likes pickles, olives, raisins, dates, pretzels. 
She likes pickles, olives, raisins, dates, and pretzels. 
Sometimes an asyndetic list is useful for the strong and direct
climactic effect it has, much more emphatic than if a final
conjunction were used. Compare:
They spent the day wondering, searching, thinking, understanding. 
They spent the day wondering, searching, thinking, and understanding.
 
In certain cases, the omission of a conjunction between short phrases
gives the impression of synonymity to the phrases, or makes the
latter phrase appear to be an afterthought or even a substitute for
the former. Compare:
He was a winner, a hero. 
He was a winner and a hero. 
Notice also the degree of spontaneity granted in some cases by
asyndetic usage. "The moist, rich, fertile soil," appears more
natural and spontaneous than "the moist, rich, and fertile soil - "
Generally, asyndeton offers the feeling of speed and concision to
lists and phrases and clauses, but occasionally the effect cannot be
so easily categorized. Consider the "flavor" of these examples:
If, as is the case, we feel responsibility, are ashamed, are
frightened, at transgressing the voice of conscience, this implies
that there is One to whom we are responsible, before whom we are
ashamed, whose claims upon us we fear. --John Henry Newman
In books I find the dead as if they were alive; in books I foresee
things to come; in books warlike affairs are set forth; from books
come forth the laws of peace. --Richard de Bury
We certainly have within us the image of some person, to whom our
love and veneration look, in whose smile we find our happiness, for
whom we yearn, towards whom we direct our pleadings, in whose anger
we are troubled and waste away. --John Henry Newman