Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Italians

Salute a tutti!
Nell'ultima puntata di Law and Order che mi e' capitato di vedere
"Italians" e' stato pronunciato [ai]talians.
Non sono bravo a scrivere la fonetica sul ng, comunque la cosa
da notare e' la prima sillaba, con [ai] invece di [i]. Non mi era mai
capitato di sentire una cosa del genere. E' comune?
grazie!
bye
Gennaro 


E' abbastanza comune in America in quelle sacche culturali dove, come 
dire, il livello di familiaritą con culture estere č piuttosto basso. 
Rendo l'idea?
Ciao

 Ciao

 Rendo l'idea?
Si'.  L'hai resa benissimo.  It's somewhat common among uneducated
individuals.
< L' ho sentito in Irlanda detta da un autista da un coach driver , appunto 
non molto acculturato .
Yours
Sal 

 individuals.
Infatti c'è anche il termine slang "Eyetie" che, un po', ricalca tale
pronuncia. Deriva da "Eyetalian", ovvero Italian con la I pronunciata
"eye". :)
Se non ricordo male ci sono diverse grafie per eyetie. Sempre se la mia
memoria non mi inganna si può scrivere anche "itie" e "eytie", ovvero con
la "i" al posto di eye o con "ey" al posto di "eye". Credo che la pronuncia
sia sempre la stessa, "ai-tai".
Ah, sono termini offensivi, da evitare.
Sebastiano

 ari
ciao
Gennaro 

Giò
A man has dreams of walking with giants,
to carve his niche in the edifice of time.
Before the mortar of his zeal
has a chance to congeal
the cup is dashed from his lips,
the flame is snuffed aborning.

 adeguata al contesto.
Forse, in quel caso, parlavano di alcuni italiani in particolare?
Delinquenti o presunti tali? E quindi usavano la pronuncia eyetalian per
questo, per indentificarli come tali, mocking their accents by
mispronouncing their nationality, using a pronunciation which is common
among the less educated and considered somewhat derogatory.
Sebastiano

 Sebastiano
ciao
Gennaro
ps: Law and Order e' ambientato a New York. 

 ps: Law and Order e' ambientato a New York.
I know, I am a tv-show-aholic. :)
Sebastiano

 Sebastiano
ciao
Gennaro 

 E' bellissimo!
Vero, le puntate che avevo visto mi eran piaciute. Quando avrò più soldi e
più tempo comprerò i DVD. Per ora seguo e compro: Alias, 2, Friends, The
Jeffersons, The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, "Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman",
Smallville, Will & Grace, The A-Team, Knight Rider, Magnum P.I., McGyver,
The O.C., Futurama, ecc.. Seguo e comprerò quando usciranno Desperate
Housewives, Scrubs, 8 Simple Rules, Joey,ecc. Un macello! ;)
Sebastiano

 Sebastiano
ciao
Gennaro 

 Ne *conosco* a malapena una meta'... ;-)
Io sono malato, sai. Non ti dico il numero di quelle che "seguicchio" su
Sky o di cui ho comunque visto episodi di recente. 
Ah, dimenticavo, ho anche la stagion 1 di Diff'rent Strokes, ovvero il
mitico Arnold. :D
Sebastiano

 Sebastiano
ciao
Gennaro 

 di Gary Coleman. C'e' malattia e malattia.. :-)
Indeed. :)
Sebastiano


L' ex-presidente Jimmy Carter diceva sempre "Eye-talians". Molti
americani dicono anche "Eye-raq" e "Eye-ran". I guess some Americans
just have an "Eye" for geography.
Joe from Massachusetts

"Gennaro" <MC7...@MCLINK.IT.HELL> wrote in message
news:cvgd4c$17di$1...@newsreader2.mclink.it...

L'ex presidente Carter diceva sempre "Eye-talians".
Molti americani hanno un problema con "Eye-raq" e "Eye-ran".
Č molto piů comune al sud.
Joe from Massachusetts

 Joe from Massachusetts
ciao
Gennaro 

 Sebastiano
ciao
Gennaro 

 Grazie per tutte le informazioni!
Ma prego! Se ne servono altre son qui. :)
Sebastiano

 Sebastiano
ciao
Gennaro 

 
http://www.mclink.it/personal/MC7361/
Non riconosco l'accento italoamericano del tipo che dice "eyetalians is
different". Ha una voce particolare (io non sono bravo con gli accenti), ma
non riconosco l'italoamericanità, non mi sembra italoamericano (come
accento). L'altro, però, che dice "what about eyetalians?" ha un forte
accento italoamericano, ma potrebbe farlo per finta, per far effetto, solo
che anche prima lo si sente: "well what, they're late! When you deal with
defence you know!". Qui è fortissimo.
Ammmerrriccaaannnnssss, would you mind telling us a li'l
somethin'-somethin' about these accents? :)
Sebastiano

 Sebastiano
Gennaro 

 da italoamericano.
Perché assomiglia a quello degli altri italoamericani che ho sentito e
assomiglia all'idea che ho di accento italoamericano. :)
Però, poi, quando dice "mine's innocent..." non mi sembra italoamericano.
Imho ogni tanto marca l'accento, o gioca con l'accento. Boh.
Sebastiano

>People talk about borough-defined New York accents, but, really, the
different types of New York accents are ethnic," Mr. Chwat said. "You
have the Jewish accent, as typified by Jackie Mason or Fran Drescher,
the Italian accent -- Robert De Niro or Tony Danza. There's the Irish
New York accent, like Rosie O'Donnell or Mayor Giuliani.">>
http://www.forward.com/issues/2000/00.06.23/fastforward.html
Rudy Giuliani, an Italian-American, does not have the "Italian"
accent, but the "Irish" accent, because of the neighborhood where he
grew up!
Joe from Massachusetts

 grew up!
Very interesting, thanks.
Anyway, what about Damato's accent? Do you think he sounds Italian-American
(in an Italian-Newyorkish sort of way) when he says "well what, they're
late..."? If not, what do you think of his accent in that sentence? It
seems Italian-American to me.
But then he goes back to his "normal" accent, and you can hear it when he
says "The Mick says because....". I don't think it's the same accent. It's
like that he was "speaking with an accent" in the first sentence. Or maybe
he was simply using his "natural" accent, I don't know. I am not sure about
what I said, I am not good with accents.
Sebastiano

 wrote in message
news:1quk2axromrzl$.txwb66uh6c0a$.dlg@40tude.net...

While I go back and listen to the clip, ponder this.
My father, born in Ireland, spoke with a very thick Irish brogue. He
often used the word "Eye-tàl-in" (not "Eye-tàl-yan"). I have noticed
this among many other Irish immigrants in everyday speech, although I
hardly think the Taoiseach pronounces the word this way.
Joe from Massachusetts

 wrote in message
news:fF1Ud.27523$SF.12664@lakeread08...

Also, take a look at this from Canada.
http://home.cogeco.ca/~abuzzelli/article2.htm
Joe from Massachusetts

 hardly think the Taoiseach pronounces the word this way.
Yes, I don't think Bertie Ahern pronounces the word that way either. :)
Sebastiano

 
http://home.cogeco.ca/~abuzzelli/article2.htm
Very interesting, thanks!
Sebastiano

 grew up!
What about Woody Allen?
Bye, FB
-- 
"Is this Miss Prism a female of repellent aspect, remotely connected with
education?" "She is the most cultivated of ladies, and the very picture of
respectability" "It is obviously the same person".
("The Importance of Being Earnest", Oscar Wilde)


If you have seen any Woody Allen (Allen Stewart Konigsberg) films, and
you don't recognize his accent as very New York and very Jewish, then
there's no hope for you.   :>)
Joe from Massachusetts

 there's no hope for you.   :>)
_But_ I've never seen any of his films, so there's still hope for me.
(smiling face) I'll listen to the audio files available on the web-site of
BBC4. Anyway, I'm almost no good at placing American accents. I think I
heard him speak once. He didn't pronounce some r's, if I remember rightly,
so that "George" became [dZu'o@dZ] or something like that.
[1] I was unsure whether I'd better recast it "is an 'of' after 'any'
missing?". Are both right?
Bye, FB
-- 
"The doctors found out that Bunbury could not live, that is what I mean—so
Bunbury died."
"He seems to have had great confidence in the opinion of his physicians."


 missing?". Are both right?
I would probably have said "is there an 'of' missing after 'any'?" 
-- 
Mary

 have seen any of Woody Allen's films".
I see. "Woody Allen" is an adjective (I wonder if he knows it), so "if you
have seen any Woody Allen films" like "if you have seen any good films".
[...]
Bye, FB
-- 
"Is this Miss Prism a female of repellent aspect, remotely connected with
education?" "She is the most cultivated of ladies, and the very picture of
respectability" "It is obviously the same person".


 accento).
Un attore con un accento insopportabile è Chazz Palminteri. L'ho visto di
recente in una puntata del programma di Conan O'Brien. Indovina che vuol
dire ['A.:dicl] ([A.] ==> "o" aperta; "l" è una elle).
[...]
Ciao, FB
-- 
"The doctors found out that Bunbury could not live, that is what I mean—so
Bunbury died."
"He seems to have had great confidence in the opinion of his physicians."


 dire ['A.:dicl] ([A.] ==> "o" aperta; "l" è una elle).
E chi chazz è? ;)
Non conoscevo il nome, ma l'ho visto mooolte volte. Non ho un ricordo della
sua voce, purtroppo. Cosa diceva di bello? Con la "a" stavo per dire
"article". :)
Dimmi, l'hai scaricato per Marcia Cross? Hai iniziato a guardare Desperate
Housewives? Se no, guarda il primo episodio e poi sappimi dire. :)
Sebastiano

 Housewives? Se no, guarda il primo episodio e poi sappimi dire. :)
L'ho visto alla tv (digitale terrestre) per caso. Provvederò per la prima
puntata di DH.
Ciao, FB
-- 
"Come, dear, we have already missed five, if not six, trains. To miss any
more might expose us to comment on the platform."


 puntata di DH.
Mi raccomando, è spettacolare. Se non la trovi fammi sapere che provvedo.
Io per ora sono alla puntata numero 15. La prossima sarà in Marzo avanzato.
In Italia è uscito due settimane fa, hanno fatto 2 puntate su FoxLife. Ogni
settimana, giovedì sera, fanno la puntata nuova. Non che mi freghi molto,
io Sky lo uso per guardare cose a caso, non ce la farei mai ad aspettare.
:)
Sebastiano

 so that "George" became [dZu'o@dZ] or something like that.
Very agreeable accent. He says ['en*t*3r], not "ender" or "enner": pretty
remarkable in AmEng, isn't it? He's very very clear. I like his vowels. For
example, the vowel in "movie" is, more or less, the Italian [u:]. He
doesn't pronounce some r's, as I've written, and, as I've also, just,
written, he pronounces some t's as t's, not as flaps. Would it be fair to
define it a very conservative American English accent, at least as it is
spoken by W. Allen? Had I not known who W.A. is, I might have taken him for
a British-born actor who had moved to the US as a young man -- say, at
twenty. 
Well, thanks, W.A.'s accent has become one of my favourite... *AmEng*...
accents.
[...]
Bye, FB
-- 
Nasalization is just a part of life.
(Joey DoWop Dee on it.cultura.linguistica.inglese)

 L' ex-presidente Jimmy Carter diceva sempre "Eye-talians". 
You had a president who said "Eye-talians"? Ohm eye!


 just have an "Eye" for geography.
And a keen one, too. :)
Sebastiano

>Discouraged by his inability to land "great roles" in Hollywood,
Palminteri wrote the play "A Bronx Tale" (1988), a one-man showcase
featuring 35 characters. This powerful story of an Italian-American
boy and the struggle between his father and a local gangster for his
devotion garnered great reviews and a long run. Financially aided by
Limelight owner Peter Gatien, he moved the play from L.A. to New York,
where it ran for four sold-out months.>>
The play was eventually made into the film, "A Bronx Tale", with
Robert de Niro playing a role inspired by Palminteri's real-life
father, who had been a bus driver in the Bronx.
http://entertainment.lycos.com/celebrities/celebrity_bio.asp?id=15559&radiotype=3&pagetemplate=purple
Joe from Massachusetts

>>Discouraged by his inability to land "great roles" in Hollywood,
[cut]
Very interesting, thank you. What about the other guy? ;)
Sebastiano

 wrote in message
news:1tlauyrhgbrot$.5v3ng2emmxei.dlg@40tude.net...

You mean that De Niro guy?
He is from "Little Italy" in Manhattan, so his accent is different
from Chazz Palminteri's Bronx accent.
De Niro isn't doing much these days, just hanging around with a bunch
of old fockers like himself.  :>)
Joe from Massachusetts.

 of old fockers like himself.  :>)
Hehehe. :)
Sebastiano

 Bye, FB
... Not to mention  one who says "nucular" .