Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: [recording] Dialogo

Ok, con quasi tre mesi di ritardo ho registrato il dialogo che avevo 
promesso a Kiuhnm a metą dicembre.
Su sei registrazioni fatte (niente taglia e cuci, eh!), non ce n'era 
nessuna "perfetta", quindi ho scelto la meno peggio: 
http://enricoilpentolaio.googlepages.com/new5.mp3
C'č qualche secondo di pausa in corrispondenza del primo minuto, perché 
il registratore di suoni di Windows si ferma dopo 60 secondi e devi 
ripremere "rec" per andare avanti a registrare.
Qui il testo:
***********
Peter: Bob, I hate to break the news, but our sales were down again last
month.
Bob: Down again, Peter?
Peter: Yeah. These days, everybody's shopping at our competition, Honest
Abe's Furniture Store.
Bob: But everything in there costs an arm and a leg!
Peter: That's true. They do charge top dollar.
Bob: And their salespeople are very strange. They really give me the creeps!
Peter: Well, they must be doing something right over there. Meanwhile,
we're about to go belly-up.
Bob: I'm sorry to hear that. I thought my new advertising campaign would
save the day.
Peter: Let's face it: your advertising campaign was a real flop.
Bob: Well then I'll go back to the drawing board.
Peter: It's too late for that. You're fired!
Bob: What? You're giving me the ax?
Peter: Yes. I've already found a new manager. She's as sharp as a tack.
Bob: Can't we even talk this over? After all, I've been working here for
10 years!
Peter: There's no point in arguing, Bob. I've already made up my mind.
Bob: Oh well, at least I won't have to put up with your nonsense
anymore! Good-bye to you and good-bye to this dead-end job.
Peter: Please leave before I lose my temper!
*********
"sales" e "meanwhile" non mi sono venuti bene, il secondo "advertising" 
e "found" non sono molto chiari.
Siate clementi!
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
-- 
Si contra fa est diabolus in musica.

 
http://enricoilpentolaio.googlepages.com/new5.mp3
  Ok, le prime battute di Peter sono orrende. Cosě č un po' meglio:
http://enricoilpentolaio.googlepages.com/old-part.mp3
(dalla versione ultramodificata fatta a dicembre)


 (dalla versione ultramodificata fatta a dicembre)
It's the first time I've heard a British use American idioms :-)
I'm not familiar with British accents, so, although I recognize your 
accent as British and certainly not American, I don't know how good it 
is. You certainly don't give away your being Italian (at least not to 
me). Congrats!
Kiuhnm

 me). Congrats!
That's too kind. Anyway, Peter's first lines were really tricky to 
intonate... at least for me. Hence (is there any informal equivalent to 
"hence"?) the poor result.
:-/


 :-/
Therefore? Then?
Kiuhnm?

 Therefore? Then?
"Therefore" is not informal... as for "then", I'm not sure I can use it 
in non-verbal sentences like the one above. Any clue?


 in non-verbal sentences like the one above. Any clue?
 From here.
Kiuhnm

  From here.
"From here the poor result". Does this sound OK to you? Hmmm...
By the way, have you ever tried that English pronunciation in use book? 
Is that of any help? I have a feeling that I won't be able to make big 
improvements until I find some native speaker to talk to. I should 
probably focus more on an American plain accent (not the awful one I 
spoke with in the recording, that's for sure!) if I want to be in the US 
in two years' time, that is if I ever get admitted. No rush, I guess!


 in two years' time, that is if I ever get admitted. No rush, I guess!
I'd try Pronunciation Power 1 and 2.
Kiuhnm

 promesso a Kiuhnm a metà dicembre.
Non ricordo più il motivo di tutto ciò... però è divertente 8-)
Ne ho registrato uno veloce anch'io:
http://www.megaupload.com/it/?d=WNXF75Q9
-- 
Laz

 I'd try Pronunciation Power 1 and 2.
Is it possible to learn pronunciation from a book?
If so, surely "Dearest Creature" is the best self-help
manual ever written :-)
If you want pronunciation, then audio books are the way to
go Assuming you cannot find a way of living in an
English-speaking community). Those Stephen Fry Harry Potter
ones sound quite good to me. Better than Rai Edu anyway :-)
Antonio

 manual ever written :-)
Interesting.
Kiuhnm

 I'd try Pronunciation Power 1 and 2.
Hmm... it's not even on Amazon.com.


 English-speaking community).
I guess I'll just try to repeat dialogues from films and tv series.
:-)
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.

 ma e' un esercizio orale peer to peer da tradurre? :)
Er... not really.
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.

 
http://www.megaupload.com/it/?d=WNXF75Q9
La prima volta non mi ha scaricato niente, la seconda mi ha detto che ho 
superato il limite di download. Proverò più tardi...
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.

 :-/
Anyway it's very good. The Pimsleur course is also very good to pick up 
an accent because every word is repeated segment by segment.
It makes you listen to the words in a very different way.
Kiuhnm

 Ok, let's try again...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdoZEmiNXJY
Kiuhnm

 relevant came up.
I think you did not get Antonio's joke :D
Dearest creature in creation,
Study English pronunciation.
I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse, and worse.
I will keep you, Suzy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy.
Tear in eye, your dress will tear.
So shall I! Oh hear my prayer.
Just compare heart, beard, and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,
Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
(Mind the latter, how it's written.)
Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as plaque and ague.
But be careful how you speak:
Say break and steak, but bleak and streak;
Cloven, oven, how and low,
Script, receipt, show, poem, and toe.
Hear me say, devoid of trickery,
Daughter, laughter, and Terpsichore,
Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles,
Exiles, similes, and reviles;
Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
Solar, mica, war and far;
One, anemone, Balmoral,
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel;
Gertrude, German, wind and mind,
Scene, Melpomene, mankind.
Billet does not rhyme with ballet,
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet.
Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.
Viscous, viscount, load and broad,
Toward, to forward, to reward.
And your pronunciation's OK
When you correctly say croquet,
Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive and live.
Ivy, privy, famous; clamour
And enamour rhyme with hammer.
River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,
Doll and roll and some and home.
Stranger does not rhyme with anger,
Neither does devour with clangour.
Souls but foul, haunt but aunt,
Font, front, wont, want, grand, and grant,
Shoes, goes, does. Now first say finger,
And then singer, ginger, linger,
Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, gouge and gauge,
Marriage, foliage, mirage, and age.
Query does not rhyme with very,
Nor does fury sound like bury.
Dost, lost, post and doth, cloth, loth.
Job, nob, bosom, transom, oath.
Though the differences seem little,
We say actual but victual.
Refer does not rhyme with deafer.
Foeffer does, and zephyr, heifer.
Mint, pint, senate and sedate;
Dull, bull, and George ate late.
Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific.
Liberty, library, heave and heaven,
Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven.
We say hallowed, but allowed,
People, leopard, towed, but vowed.
Mark the differences, moreover,
Between mover, cover, clover;
Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
Chalice, but police and lice;
Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label.
Petal, panel, and canal,
Wait, surprise, plait, promise, pal.
Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair,
Senator, spectator, mayor.
Tour, but our and succour, four.
Gas, alas, and Arkansas.
Sea, idea, Korea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria.
Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean.
Doctrine, turpentine, marine.
Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion and battalion.
Sally with ally, yea, ye,
Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, and key.
Say aver, but ever, fever,
Neither, leisure, skein, deceiver.
Heron, granary, canary.
Crevice and device and aerie.
Face, but preface, not efface.
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.
Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, out, joust and scour, scourging.
Ear, but earn and wear and tear
Do not rhyme with here but ere.
Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew Stephen,
Monkey, donkey, Turk and jerk,
Ask, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.
Pronunciation -- think of Psyche!
Is a paling stout and spikey?
Won't it make you lose your wits,
Writing groats and saying grits?
It's a dark abyss or tunnel:
Strewn with stones, stowed, solace, gunwale,
Islington and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict and indict.
Finally, which rhymes with enough --
Though, through, plough, or dough, or cough?
Hiccough has the sound of cup.
My advice is to give up!!!
-- B. Shaw

 So shall I! Oh hear my prayer.
[snip]
I look forward to the MP3 :-)
Antonio

 So shall I! Oh hear my prayer.
 > [...]
Aaah... va be'. La prossima volta registrerò quello, allora.
:-P


 emission, could be a good therapy? :)
It won't hurt.


 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdoZEmiNXJY
LOL!


 
http://www.megaupload.com/it/?d=WNXF75Q9
Nice one! Ok, ora mi "studio" un accento di un personaggio di un 
telefilm americano che guardo, poi ci riprovo.
:-)


 
http://enricoilpentolaio.googlepages.com/new5.mp3
Question: does Bob sound vaguely British to an American ear?


 tightened very cleaver english pronunce. Don't you?!
I suppose it depends on which of the many and varied US accents
you wish to model your own speech. I would have thought that
US vowels show as much variation as English vowels and I doubt
that many of them are close to Italian vowels anyway.
If you'd decided to sound English, I presume you would have aimed
for typical TV announcer style and not a strong regional accent
(like Geordie or Scouse or Black Country). Similarly I'd assume
you'd be aiming to avoid a strong Southern drawl while learning
American. So is there much difference (in learning difficulty)
between a middle-of-the-road American accent and an English
TV announcer? 
Obviously if you are aiming for Sawyer from Lost or the 
narrator from Big Brother then ignore everything I've said!
Antonio

 Question: does Bob sound vaguely British to an American ear?
Just laughsssssss and laughsssss! No, my vote would be Martian.
Here's a tip. If you want to speak with a good native American accent, think 
about how an American who speaks bad Italian sounds when speaking Italian, 
while you're speaking in English. 

 narrator from Big Brother then ignore everything I've said!
what's the matter with Sawyer? (seriously, I don't remember ever 
noticing anything supposedly wrong about his accent)


 noticing anything supposedly wrong about his accent)
Nothing. I like Sawyer. But if I were aiming to be understood
the last thing I'd (knowingly) do is try to imitate a strong regional
accent. TV announcers and presenters typically need to be
understood by a large proportion of the population so that
seems like a reasonable target to aim for.
If you were trying to learn Italian would you take Don Matteo
as your role model or the latest low life that the Maresciallo
eventually bangs to rights?
You surely have a better chance of being understood if you
aim for Jack (or Kate) rather than Sawyer.
Antonio

 while you're speaking in English. 
Ok...
Now it's late, but later on this week I'll record some shorter sentences 
with my "best" British accent. Just curious to see what is plain wrong.


 accent. 
Oh ok, he has a regional accent. Didn't remember that (or rather, when I 
started (and soon stopped) watching Lost, I knew less about American 
accents than I do now... and I'm not that much of an expert!).


Caro Seimilacinquecentodue,
posso chiederti di usare un po' meno sorrisini :-) o magari nessuno
affatto? La lettura dei tuoi messaggi mi riesce difficile.
Grazie


That's called "smileggiatura".
Kiuhnm

 eventually bangs to rights?
"Bangs to rights" = imprigionare ?

 That's called "smileggiatura".
:D

 "Bangs to rights" = imprigionare ?
esatto
Antonio

 Ok
Grazie!
Anche io devo dire che vedere tutte quelle faccine utilizzate al posto della
punteggiatura e' davvero fastidioso. 

 della punteggiatura e' davvero fastidioso.
Secondo me si tratta solo di usarle nel modo giusto. Come il peperoncino,
ne basta un pizzico ogni tanto. Meglio a fine periodo e non a metà di una
frase, dove possono effettivamente infastidire la lettura.
Comunque, visto che 6502 sembra disponibile ad accettare consigli per una
maggiore leggibilità, mi permetto di proporgli quanto segue:
- distanziare con una riga vuota l'inizio della risposta dal testo citato
al quale si risponde;
- usare le maiuscole quando richiesto, ad esempio all'inizio di una frase o
dopo un punto;
- usare la punteggiatura quando richiesto.

 ne basta un pizzico ogni tanto. (..)
Sono assolutamente d'accordo, infatti io stesso le uso spesso.
Tuttavia (ammetto che questo discorso andrebbe spostato su iccy)
l'uso delle faccine al termine di ogni singola frase, oltre a risultare
fastidioso, ne fa anche perdere il loro scopo.
Un po' come mettere il peperoncino, anche un pizzico, in TUTTE le
pietanze che mangi: dopo un po' non ti accorgi nemmeno che c'e'
e diventa inutile (e magari fastidioso per gli altri, che potrebbero
non amare il gelato al limone e peperoncino...)
[...]
ciao :-)
Gennaro 

 e' sintetizzato dalle emoticons.
 From one of your messages:
<<  May be it's impossible for me to sound just like an american,
because :) I'm italian and I live in italian, and I can't afford
foregin's voyages for the moment ;P so my best target that I could reach
it's to sound moderately like an american? :) >>
Mistakes aside, what could one possibily misunderstand if all those 
smilies were left out?


 you are right, in this way it could be better
 > [...]
Definitely.


 it's to sound moderately like an american?
Se vorresti scrivere come americano, scrivilo a mo' di questo:
You are right, that way would be better.
Maybe it's impossible for me to sound just like an American, because I'm 
Italian, and I live in Italy, and I can't afford to travel overseas/to the 
US/to a foreign country/ for the moment. (Puoi dire: foreign travel, ma 
scrivi "foreign", non "foregin's") So, the best goal that I could try to 
reach (the best target that I could try to shoot for) would be to sound 
somewhat like an American. (E perchè il punto interrogativo?)
A proposito, studi anche la lingua italiana?

 Se vorresti scrivere come americano, scrivilo a mo' di questo:
"Se volessi scrivere come un americano, scrivilo in questo modo:"
HIH :)

 HIH :)
Hope It Helps? 
Ho visto solo HTH (Hope This Helps).
Antonio

 (ma il significato non e` uguale)
Agreed.
Kiuhnm

 "Se vorresti scrivere come americano, scrivilo in questo modo:"
 > [...]
Non è che ti confondi con l'inglese?


 "Se vuoi scrivere come un americano, scrivilo in questo modo:"
Ti do ragione, dopo aver analizzato meglio il contesto.

 -goal- american use it more frequently than the english -target-
No, ma č meglio avere la concordanza tra parole.
You shoot for a target.
Your reach/attain a goal.
Si puň dire 'reach for a target' ma 'reach a target' č un po'... beh, 
sconvolge l'appagamento .