Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Quadrifoglio

Ciao a tutti!
Esiste un altro termine, per dire quadrifoglio, oltre a cloverleaf e 
four-leaf clover?
Grazie in anticipo a chi risponderà!
Bye bye

 four-leaf clover?
quatrefoil
Kiuhnm

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:467fa57b$0$17948$4faf...@reader1.news.tin.it...

Forse ho trovato, shamrock. Dovrebbe essere il termine più comune per 
indicare il fiore. 

 indicare il fiore.
Ma shamrock non vuol dire trifoglio?
-- 
Ciao,
Anna

 Ma shamrock non vuol dire trifoglio?
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamrock
-- 
Ciao,
Anna

 
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamrock
Stavo leggendo anch'io la stessa voce, sě, č trifoglio... 

 Ma shamrock non vuol dire trifoglio?
I'd only use "shamrock" if talking about clover in Ireland, or somehow
associated with
Ireland e.g. in an Irish parade.

 Ireland e.g. in an Irish parade.
I see.
Aren't languages strange :)
-- 
Ciao,
Anna


Someone who knows more about these things than I do tells me: Shamrock
is a particular _kind_ of clover.
I suspect you're more likely to find "shamrock" in Ireland-related
contexts, though.


Ma non è francese "quatrefoil"? A me sembra francese, anche se vivendo
in Italia il francese lo sto dimenticando :-)

 contexts, though.
Yes, there's an Irish pub by that name here in Turin (and in every other
town with Irish pubs, Irish towns included, I suspect :) )
-- 
Ciao,
Anna

 taken as a disclaimer.


It's a four-leaf clover where I am.
Ari


 Cioe' volevo dire che io non ho mai sentito nient'altro.
Ari


How about "four-leaved clover" ? 

 How about "four-leaved clover" ? 
They are both correct.
Kiuhnm



No, they're not. "Four-leaf clover" is correct.


 
I apologize: My answer was too hasty, and the follow-up to the nagging doubt 
that ensued as soon as I hit "send" confirmed that it was wrong.
Let me rephrase my answer: although both forms are in use, wherever I've been 
in this country if you were to call it a "four-leaved clover" you would sound 
like a foreigner.


 like a foreigner.
... or a British.
Kiuhnm

On Jun 26, 2007, Kiuhnm wrote:

Exactly: a foreigner.


 wrote in message
news:njaeqj8n65be.5s76wo8qvu6u$.dlg@40tude.net...

The Irish shamrock and the American clover normally have only three leaves.
A "four-leaf clover" is considered a sign of good luck if you find one here
in the US.
http://www.fourleafclover.com/4fact.html
Joe from Massachusetts

 like a foreigner.
It's "four-leafed clover" with an f in the song, isn't it?
"I'm looking over a four-leafed clover
That I overlooked before".

 Exactly: a foreigner.
Logically unexceptionable, but actually misleading ;-)
Your post gave me the idea that "four-leaved" could be sub-standard. It 
might be. What about "four-leg", "four-legged", etc...?
Does it have anything to do with expressions like "white-skinned" and 
"blond-haired"? I read a book titled "The Wheel of Time" which contains 
a huge quantity of such forms. Later I read the Seventh Sword's trilogy 
and I found not even one of them! Is it a matter of style, regionalism 
or what?
Kiuhnm

 in the US.
Here in Italy too (in case you doubted it) :)
I love them.
My mother finds whole bunches of them all the time! I often find brittle
old ones in books and dictionaries. You can't, when using CD-ROMs :(
-- 
Ciao,
Anna

 wrote in message
news:17vwviw8a2wiv.5wlwndqa60jb$.dlg@40tude.net...

We even have an old song about the four-leaf clover..
http://tinyurl.com/2um8ft
Note the play on words between "looking over" and "overlooked".
Joe from Massachusetts

 wrote in message
news:1182868705.2...@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

Not over here.
http://lyricstrue.net/bandsongtext/Art_Mooney/Im_Looking_Over_A_Four_Leaf_Clover.html
Joe from Massachusetts


Any pizzerias named Shamrock?  :>)
When I was in Italy, many bars attempted to draw the tourist crowd, not with
the shamrock, but with another Irish symbol, the Guinness logo. A metal disk
about 10 inches in diameter was affixed to the wall outside the bar where it
could be seen by passersby. It was  imprinted in green and white with the
Guinness logo encircled by the phrase "Guinness is good for you".
Joe from Massachusetts

 what?
You can freely invent words using a hyphen and appropriate adjective. It is 
indeed a matter of style. The only time you may run into trouble is when a 
popular alternative in common speech supplants the adjective. I'd venture to 
say that the reason 'four-leaved clover' doesn't sound right to some people 
is because 'four-leaf clover' is so pervasive in speech. My guess is that 
over time the hyphenated word is shortened, because we do that sort of 
thing, and the hyphen may even disappear if the word comes into very popular 
use.
 



My addition to this would be (as an educated guess) that "four-leaved clover" 
became "four-leaf clover" due to the difficulty in pronouncing v-d-c (that 
is, two voiced consonants that are awkward together, followed by an 
unvoiced.)


 unvoiced.)
I have another doubt. Why do we say "a ten-day trip" and "a four-legged 
animal"? For instance should I say "a two-storey house" or "a 
two-storeyed house"?
Kiuhnm

On Jun 26, 2007, Kiuhnm wrote:

Sometimes those "why" questions are the hardest. :-)
"ten-day trip" is easy to understand, isn't it? A trip of ten days is a 
"ten-day trip."
A lecture of three hours is a "three-hour lecture."
A vacation of three weeks: "three-week vacation."
And a cruise to Gilligan's Island is a "three-hour tour."
An animal with four legs is a quadruped.
And a house with two stories has an upstairs and a downstairs.
:-/
"Four-legged" is the norm.
As is "two-story" (or "storey" Br)
As to why, just "because" is all I can come up with.
But I'm noticing a trend with body parts or animate objects to use the 
version in -ed:
one-eyed monster (be careful with this expression ;-)
three-legged table [sic] (yes, a table is inanimate, but legs aren't)
eight-armed goddess
but
four-door sedan
two-tone paint job
two-act play
three-room apartment


 wrote in message
news:46816f4c$0$17947$4faf...@reader1.news.tin.it...

I guess you can say either, although in the US it would be story/storied.
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=78504&dict=CALD
In the US, we can say "The old two-storied house has a storied past".
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/storied?view=uk
Joe from Massachusetts

 wrote in message
news:qGfgi.146768$vE1....@newsfe24.lga...

I don't know if you could get away with "the old two-storied storied house".
:>)
Joe from Massachusetts

 "The old two-storied house has a storied past".
This strikes me as poetic license to make use of the play on words.


 three-room apartment
That is not very reassuring. I will have to study them one by one :-(
Kiuhnm

 Not "three-legged man"? ;-)
(Any connection with the one-eyed monster?)
Chinese puzzle:
What walks on four legs in its youth, two legs in adulthood and three legs in 
old age?


 in Italia il francese lo sto dimenticando :-)
Anche l'Italiano, si direbbe, sporco negro.
-- 
I had this recurring dream / I was living another life
In another country / In another time / As I got older 
The dream began to fade away / Until one day... 
There she was... tapping me on my shoulder - Hogarth 2004

 old age?
The two-legged (biped) man.
Kiuhnm



I didn't realize you were Chinese. ;-)



Just because he uses a cane doesn't make him Chinese.  :>)
Joe from Massachusetts

 Just because he uses a cane doesn't make him Chinese.  :>)
I gatto use a cane, but it's topo the line.
Kiuhnm

On Jun 27, 2007, Kiuhnm wrote:

cute.




If he has three older siblings he must be Chinese. I heard the every fourth 
child is Chinese. :-p


 child is Chinese. :-p
And you believed her?
No, offense intended ;-)
Kiuhnm

 wrote:

'nthesedicks! 
Standing ovation. 


 And you believed her?
Mmm... please forget it. That's a bit too much.
Kiuhnm

 
non volevo farlo, ma mi dicono che su questo NG bisogna puntualizzare
anche le virgole, allora ti faccio notare che il trifoglio e' la foglia
 di una pianta erbacea e non un fiore (che e' l'organo riproduttivo
della pianta stessa).
Shamrock, comunque, non e' un termine botanico. In irlandese seamrog
vuol dire "little clover".
Il motivo per cui e' il simbolo dell'Irlanda e' che pare che San
Patrizio usasse un trifoglio per spiegare la trinita' al popolo. Non si
sa bene quale trifoglio usasse esattamente, ma gli indizi e le
descrizioni sono a favore del Trifolium dubium, detto comunemente
"lesser yellow trefoil", che e' l'indiziato principale per essere il
Shamrock autentico.
-- 
frescura:
tra qui e la campana,
i rintocchi
http://www.lorologiaiomiope.com

 meaning was unquestionable).
The "Runaway Bride"...?  It was aired a couple of days ago and I first heard 
this "serpente da un occhio solo" joke... 

 
LOL. Yes, I'm gullible.


 this "serpente da un occhio solo" joke... 
No, it was the silly "Cruel Intentions 2":
http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/c/cruel-intentions-2-script-transcript.html
Kiuhnm