Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: differences uk/us

A professor here once said that when he was in the UK he realised how 
people spoke far better English than in America. In what ways can that 
be true? Or would you even agree with that?
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.

):

Oh boy! "Can of worms? Are you ready for your debut?"
-- 
Joe/Joey da New York
English as she is spoken (and sometimes written) in the US

 Oh boy! "Can of worms? Are you ready for your debut?"
Io ho riportato quanto sentito di persona...
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.

 be true? Or would you even agree with that?
Ok, forget about that question. I have two more now:
1) Should people here be able to understand me when I use term 
"surname"? It takes everybody a while to realise that "surname" is 
another way to say "last name". I read that it's common in the UK, but 
only used in formal contexts in the US, so why is it a problem for most 
people?
2) Is the term "leaflet" used at all? Back in August it took a shop 
assistant a few seconds to figure out what I was talking about. Now I 
know people here say "flyer", but isn't that the same thing?
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.

 Enrico il Pentolaio.


 know people here say "flyer", but isn't that the same thing?
Yes, leaflet is a common term, too. It has a more general meaning than 
'flyer' which is tipically used to refer to an information sheet 
distributed to people to announce an event. A 'leaflet' may refer to the 
same thing or it may be an addendum page or pages that accompany a 
manual or other text.
I think that you may either be encountering pockets of ignorance or your 
pronunciation may be unusual for the ear of some very narrow-field 
listeners.

 -- for the purpose of promoting something.
volantinare...fare del volantinaggio...I suppose.
-- 
 >Giovanni

 -- for the purpose of promoting something.
I didn't know. Thanks!
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.

 listeners.
What I find curious is that, when talking to my Spanish-speaking 
friends, I need to sound as "non-British" as possible in order for them 
to understand me, and I don't mind it because it's tiresome to speak 
like that all the time, but when I'm with Americans, they understand me 
better if I do the opposite.
Funny story: I met a girl last Saturday whose father is from Wales. She 
was surprised I sounded British (!!!). Another girl heard me speak in my 
"spanish mode" before I switched to "fake British mode", and said:"I 
like your Italian British accent!"
:-DDD
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.


I don't think that for a foreigner speaking English with different accents
is a good idea. I would never attempt to speak English with anything but my
natural accent. If you continually try to switch accents, you will be master
of none of them.
You have to adopt some kind of an accent as your own. I know many people
from the British Isles, and none of them has switched from their native
Irish, Scottish, or "English" accents to an American accent, no matter how
long they have lived here.
Joe from Massachusetts

 of none of them.
I get your point.It's not really two different accents, it's just that 
when I'm either tired or I don't think it's worth it, I do a "lighter" 
version of my fairly British accent. I know I shouldn't, so for this 
week I'll try not to let my Italianness come out. :-)
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.

 better if I do the opposite.
Perhaps your Spanish-speaking friends are unfamiliar with British 
pronunciation and more comfortable with an Italian lilt. I find that I 
assimilate a light coloring of the accent being spoken to me as an 
unconscious way of identifying with the speaker. This happens with me in 
English and Italian. Sometimes I have to be careful to make sure that I 
don't take that tendency too far and seem to be imitating or mocking the 
accents spoken around me.

 fourth or fifth day here and I couldn't remember any other term for it.
I'm surprised, then, that the assistant didn't instantly recognize the word. 
It could be a regional thing.
But to be fair, when I hear "leaflet" I think of Ben Franklin and the Civil 
War era... And now you've got me wondering why "flyer"? They don't usually 
fly unless they're dropped from some height... Back to the etymological 
dictionary...


 dictionary...
Volano volano... basta un po' di vento. In italiano li chiamiamo 
"volantini". Invece i "volanti" (steering wheels) non volano.
Kiuhnm

):

lol



In NYC you often hear a variation - "loint".
Joe from Massachusetts

 n NYC you often hear a variation - "loint".
So I've hoid.


 be true? Or would you even agree with that?
Dipende da che cavolo intendesse esattamente per "better".
-- 
Armando di Matteo <a r m y ONE NINE EIGHT SEVEN AT e m a i l DOT i t>
Vuolsi così colà dove si puote / ciò che si vuole; più non dimandare.
[  T  H  I  S     S  P  A  C  E     I  S     F  O  R     R  E  N  T  ]



Le similitudini tra italiano e inglese non finiscono di sorprendermi... 
Qualche giorno fa nel film "Whatever Works" ho sentito "If my grandmother 
had wheels, she would be a trolley car"; ero convinto che fosse un 
proverbio italiano DOC, e invece...


 Or would you even agree with that?
For starters, define "better English".

true? Or would you even agree with that?
Lo so che non si fa! Riesumare i vecchi thread, dico.
Per� questo era carino e me lo sono persa!
Quindi ora rispondo a qualche cosa con le mie strane teorie.
L'idea che mi sono fatta io � che semplicemente non poteva pi� utilizzare lo 
slang e la pronuncia shatta che ti viene da fare quando sei con gli 
'amichetti del quartiere'. Se tu per esempio fossi andato a studiare 
all'Universit� in un posto molto lontano da casa, all'ennesima perculata 
avresti cominciato a parlare Italiano e non quella specie di strano idioma 
che parlano tutti quando non gli sgrani l'occhione davanti implorante "per 
favore. vuoi parlare una lingua riconosciuta come tale?"
ciao, Janis
p.s. Poi per� glielo chiedi al Prof. e ci fai sapere! 

 So I've hoid.
ROFL! Non possono capirle queste, dai!
Il mio ex newyorkese giurava di non parlare cos�, infatti lo faceva solo 
davanti a me, giusto per rimarcare il confine tra NY e CA.
ciao, Janis 

 people here say "flyer", but isn't that the same thing?
Rispondo a queste due anche, visto che tanto ho gi� commesso il crimine.
Mi sembra strano che nessuno degli Americani abbia la mia teoria, che � 
questa:
Prova ad immaginare che uno straniero, parlando con te in italiano e 
utilizzando un vocabolario del tutto ordinario (scusa la rima) ad un certo 
punto se ne esca con un "quando festeggiamo il tuo genetliaco? Sai, devo 
ridarti quella cosa mobile che ho preso in comodato d'uso prima che la 
acquisica per usucapione"
Probabilmente  non esiste nessuna parola che tu non conosca in quella frase. 
Semplicemente non te l'aspetti, quindi il tuo orecchio non � allenato per 
captarle. Considerando che quando parla uno straniero i segnali di allarme 
(=beep, che mink sta a d�?") che ti piaccia o no sono tanti, unisci le due 
cose e vedrai che il risultato � quella faccia sbigottita e quei due secondi 
di ritardo che possono dare l'impressione che loro non abbiano mai sentito o 
non conoscano la parola.
Entrambe, a mio parere erano/sono conosciute (leaflet MOLTO pi� usato di 
surname, se vuoi la mia) al tuo interlocutore, ma non se l'aspettano e 
perdono quel paio di secondi per verificare che tu non stia pronunciando 
male qualche altra parola pi� comune.
Mi rendo conto che ho fatto gli esempi sbagliati in it. perch� la prima � 
una parola dal suono molto distinguibile, il second periodo � troppo piena 
di parole e frasi inusuali nella lingua di tutti i giorni. Non so, un "mi 
passi quel pomo?" invece di mela forse potrebbe andare?
ciao, Janis 

 wrote in message
news:hf31mc$2ebm$1...@newsreader2.mclink.it...

In New York, if a girl named Mary got married on Christmas, Mary would marry
on a merry Christmas Day. In California, Mary would mary on a mary Christmas
Day.
Joe from Massachusetts

 
To be honest, after 19 years in NYC I've only known one person who spoke that 
way ('hoid' for 'heard'; 'loint' for 'learnt'; and even 'erl' for  'oil'). It 
was a porter who worked in my building, an older man, now retired. The 
phenomenon might be dying out, but it will live forever as an 
over-generalization or over-characterization of a typical Brooklyn accent.


 way 
Yeah, speaking of NY, what the hell? Why can't I find a decent hostel to 
stay at? Most hostels are either 1) dirty 2) unsafe 3) far away from 
manhattan 4) ridiculously small 5) infested with mice 6) infested with 
bed bugs 7) infested with cockroaches 8) in harlem
Choose any combination from above.
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.

 p.s. Poi per� glielo chiedi al Prof. e ci fai sapere! 
That was actually the professor's husband, also a jazz pianist, 
replacing her for just one lecture.
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.

 passi quel pomo?" invece di mela forse potrebbe andare?
Gotcha!


):

More info, please.
When are/were you planning to visit?
For how long?
What's your budget?
When is a door not a door?
(Ans: When it's ajar.)


 (Ans: When it's ajar.)
What's that? I just need a bed in a 6/8/10/12/whatever-bed room in a 
reasonably clean and safe hostel. I'll (re)start searching in the weekend.
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.

 wrote in
message news:hf7mq9$91q$1...@aioe.org...

We usually stay in the Times Square area when we go to NYC for Christmas.
A few years ago, I stayed at the Da Vinci Hotel, just off Times Square, for
$69 per night. The concierge was a young girl from Bari.
Whenever I go to NYC, I always make reservations through one of the on-line
services.
My guess is that the cheapest rate in a Midtown hotel would be about $75 per
night.
http://www.nyc.com/?secid=4
There are also hostels you might be interested in.
http://www.hostelworld.com/hostels/New-York
One advantage of staying in the larger hotels, especially in the Times
Square area, is that they are very crowded, and people are more or less
anonymous. If a person checks in and pays the single-room rate, he can
always sneak other people into the room after he has settled in without
anyone noticing. :>)
If you plan on visiting the usual NYC highlights, I would suggest buying one
of the special passes which give you a reduced rate when you buy tickets for
multiple attractions, such as the Empire State Building (a must-see),
various museums, etc. You have to be careful and use the pass within the
time limit specified.
http://www.newyorkpass.com/
Some people are averse to public transportation and insist on taking taxis,
but to truly experience New York, you have to get to know the vast subway
and bus system. Subway and bus maps are available in most hotels in the
city. Whenever I need a subway or bus map, I just go into the lobby of a
large hotel and ask for them, if they are not out on display. The concierges
don't know that you're not a guest of the hotel.
The Metropass, which is good for unlimited rides on all of the NYC buses and
subways, is recommended. You can get on a bus, and get off when you see
something interesting, and then get back on again.
�7-Day Unlimited Ride MetroCard
Cost: $27
Good for unlimited subway and local bus rides until midnight, 7 days from
day of first use. �
http://www.mta.info/metrocard/mcgtreng.htm#unlimited
Subway and bus maps are also available online.
Subway
http://www.mta.info/nyct/maps/submap.htm
Bus
http://www.mta.info/nyct/maps/manbus.pdf
All NYC public libraries have free wireless access, and there are free
wireless hotspots in most NYC parks. There is free wireless access in Times
Square.
http://www.nycwireless.net/
New York is known for its many department store Christmas window displays.
The Saks Fifth Avenue display is just across the street from Rockefeller
Center, on Fifth Avenue, but there are many other displays.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/28/a-guide-to-the-holiday-window-displays/
The Staten Island Ferry is free, and it is a good place to take pictures of
the NYC skyline and the Statue of Liberty.
Joe from Massachusetts

):

First things first:
A door is not a door when it's "a jar". (It's a pun: "ajar" means slightly 
open) a play on words that's older than I am; hard to believe, but true. :)
I used to work at Amsterdam at 103rd St. in the building that houses what was 
then the American Youth Hostel, now Hostelling International NY.
I never had a problem in that neighborhood, and it's improved even since 
then.
<
http://www.ny.com/cgibin/frame.cgi?url=http://www.hinewyork.org&frame=/frame/
hotels.html>
and the reservation page:
https://reservations.hinewyork.org/iqreservations/
Here are a few links and things to consider.
It's a few blocks from:
The Cathedral of St. John the Divine, Amsterdam at 110th St.
Columbia University, Broadway at 116th St.
Toms' Restaurant (from "Seinfeld"), Broadway at 112th St.
and Manhattan School of Music, Broadway at 122nd (there's no reason to go 
there, but I also worked there for a few years.)
This link will put you on a Mapquest map of the location.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yaqoss7
Zoom out a bit and you'll see where it is on the Island: a bit uptown, but 
within easy reach of the Broadway line subway: stations at 96th and Broadway, 
103rd, 110th, 116th, and all the way downtown, right into the heart of Times 
Square at 42nd St. and beyond.
Get yourself a 7-day unlimited ride MetroCard for the subways or buses:
7-Day Unlimited Ride MetroCard
Cost: $27. Good for unlimited subway and local bus rides until midnight, 7 
days from day of first use. It's good anytime not just until midnight: that 
means it expires at midnight on the 7th day after you first use it. Since 
you're here for six, it will work out fine.
In that part of town you'll probably want to stay on the west side of Central 
Park, however, the Conservancy Gardens on Fifth Avenue at 105th Street (the 
east side of Central Park) is a nice place to visit -- when plants are 
flowering, that is -- maybe not in December unless you are interested in 
brown shrubbery. :)
(I worked in that neighborhood, too; at Mt. Sinai Medical Center.)
Lots of decent places to eat on Broadway up there now, and downtown you got 
the whole world awaiting you.
Let me know how this works out, if you have any questions, or whatever.
-- 
Joe/Joey da New York
English as she is spoken (and sometimes written) in the US.
"English as She Is Spoke" is the common name of a 19th century book credited 
to Josï¿œ da Fonseca and Pedro Carolino, which was intended as a 
Portuguese-English conversational guide or phrase book, but is regarded as a 
classic source of unintentional humour.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_As_She_Is_Spoke

 the whole world awaiting you.
Thanks!
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.

 the NYC skyline and the Statue of Liberty.
Lol, the italians here tried to go take that ferry three times and, for 
a number of reasons, always failed.
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.


You could combine a trip to the Staten Island Ferry with a trip to Ground
Zero. It's not that much of a walk from Ground Zero to Battery Park where
the ferry slip is, or you can just take the M6 bus down Broadway to South
Ferry
from Ground Zero.
Joe from Massachusetts

 Enrico il Pentolaio.
Let me know if you get frustrated looking... the Vanderbilt Y is at
http://www.ymcanyc.org/index.php?id=3231
and the reservation page is at
https://reservations.synxis.com/lbe/rez.aspx?hotel=11146


 then.
I agree that the area is not bad. I found this inquiry about the place from
a few years ago.
http://askville.amazon.com/SimilarQuestions.do?req=stayed-NYC-area-International-Hostel-upper-west-side-Manhattan
I often spend time around the west 80s and 90s.
Isn't there a theater around 98th or 100th St. which features some big name
performers? I can remember George Carlin performing there for one of his
last performances. Maybe I'm thinking of the Beacon - but that's somewhere
in the '80s.
Back in the 1960s, the border of the congressional district which
encompasses the "Barrio" on the Upper East Side was shifted down from 106th
St. to 96th St., because the area had become populated with Puerto Ricans
spilling out of the Barrio. Then the Puerto Rican population started a slow
decline over the years, from 750,000 to less than 50,000, so a few years ago
the border of the congressional district was shifted back from 96th St. to
106th St., because the area had become gentrified by people moving up from
Yorkville. I'm sure the same thing is happening on the West Side.
Joe, you forgot an important highlight of that area of the Upper West Side,
which I'm sure is right up Enrico's alley.
http://www.cmom.org/
Joe from Massachusetts

 
http://www.cmom.org/
Good point. I had forgotten that one, but he might be a little too young to 
appreciate it. :-)


"Joe/Joey da New York" <joe...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C73DCB1F...@news.eternal-september.org...

They had a retrospective exhibit featuring the old Erector sets, with Ferris
wheels and cranes and all kinds of neat stuff a few years back.
Joe from Massachusetts