Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Present perfect continuous in the negative form

    Dear All,
                 Yesterday night I was puzzled when one of my students asked
me a questione. And not just because she was a graceful young woman with
blonde hair... Joking aside, I explained the present perfect continuous, and
I obviously specified that this tense is generally not used in the negative
form. Honestly, I think I have heard it in the negative form two or three
times in my entire life.
    But then, during the exercises, I noticed my students were reluctant to
use a continuous in the affirmative form and a non-continuous tense in the
negative form. Then, the angel-like chic drew my attention to a short
paragraph (capoverso) in the grammar book we use in our course: "Si usa però
la forma progressiva se l'azione è stata compiuta e la negazione riguarda
altri elementi della frase". There was just ONE example, and not a very
clear one either.
    Although I believe I can instinctively use the tense properly, and I can
explain it correctly, I haven't found a way to explain this peculiar case.
Is there a precise rule, or what? Maybe the use of this tense also varies on
the two coasts of the Atlantic? What are the impressions of the native
speakers this group teems with?
    Thanks,
                Nicola
--
Multa non quia difficilia sunt non audemus, sed quia non audemus sunt
difficilia (Seneca).
[it, en, ru, es, (fr, pt, la, zh, ar)]

 times in my entire life.
I haven't been paying much attention recently to how often it's used in
negative form, but I don't think it's all that uncommon.

 negative form, but I don't think it's all that uncommon.
I agree with you. Perhaps Nicola could be more specific.
Bye-bye, FB

negative form, but I don't think it's all that uncommon.
I haven't been eating enough fibre recently, and I certainly haven't
been watching my weight.
I don't think this is a particularly rare construction. Not in the
same way that "will have been being built" or "could have been being
watched" are.
-- 
Adam Atkinson (
gh...@mistral.co.uk
)
BRITISH LEFT WAFFLES ON FALKLANDS

watched" are.
it's not rare at all, quite common indeed
Why Weren't They Doing it in the First Place? - 
I'm not going to argue with you
I'm not implying that
they weren't reading
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 they weren't reading
And where should the present perfect continuous be in those sentences?
Ciao, FB

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oopps
scusate, dormivo..si parlava di "present perfect continuos"...
comunque, no, non credo che sia "eccezionale" usarlo, anzi.
Frasi negative con il PPC si costruiscono meno spesso è logico, ma se
si vuole usarlo sono "lecite"


 si vuole usarlo sono "lecite"
Peraltro hanno un significato diverso dalle negative col present perfect
simple.
Ciao, FB

Scríobh Tony the ice man:

Fantastico. Una metaspiegazione ;)
(urgh... how can one say it in English? Meta-something doesn't make any 
sense, does it...?)
-- 
Slán abhaile,
Frances
(remove LASEMESTE to reply by mail)

form. 
This is new to me.  I think that it's not used in the negative form as often as
it is in the affirmative form, but that's simply because generally the
affirmative form is more common than the negative.  
bye
Ary 

 sense, does it...?)
Penso che in inglese si dica 'a smartass response.'

Is there a precise rule, or what?
e.g.
I "haven't" been working very well recently.
This tense is used(present perfect continuous tense) "as you know" for an
action which began in the past and is still continuing or has only just
finished.
Hai perfettamente ragione quando dici che la forma al negativo è rara, ma è
rara perchè si usa il present perfect simple.
Di solito(quasi regolarmente) anche in italiano diciamo: ho vissuto qui per
dieci anni.
E' raro sentir dire: non ho vissuto qui per dieci anni.
Oppure: piove senza interruzione da tre giorni. E' difficile sentir dire:
non piove senza interruzione da tre giorni.
Abitiamo qui da maggio. E' difficile sentir dire: NON abitiamo qui da
maggio.
In oltre saprai della interscambiabilità nella lingua parlata tra present
perfect simple e p.p. continuous, e "il gioco è fatto".
La regola è chiara e la si trova come avrai visto sui libri di grammatica,
l'uso è anche esso chiaro e "regolato".
Manca l'uso frequente.
How long haven't you been loving a girl?:)
E' una domanda legittima visto il racconto che ci hai concesso, ma converrai
che suona male e non usuale.
Prova a spiegare alla tua studentessa con li verbo "love" e vedi che tutto
andrà bene.
AUGURI :)
bye bye

 I don't think this is a particularly rare construction.
    Well, as far as I know, it is definitely not very frequent either. I
have just checked three grammars ("The Grammar You Need", the textbook we're
using - which I won't mention 'cause it would be advertising - and another
one the name of which I do not remember), and they all clearly specify that
this tense is generally not used in the negative form, except when it is "an
apparent negative". This phrase is not explained any further, and the only
(three) examples I could find were all with the expression "for long" at the
end.
    I haven't heard that tense in the negative much in my experience
(perhaps more than two or three times, but certainly not often at all), and
though I accept that it is technically correct, I am still puzzled at its
use - in most cases, as any grammar investigation could prove, it is
replaced by the present perfect.
    Aren't there any criteria or any observations which could be put
forward? Hasn't any English or American linguist ever written anything about
this issue?
    Regards,


 this issue?
Perhaps they haven't been concerned about the issue. However, it might be an
interesting treatise to examine how grammar texts and dictionaries seem to
borrow explanations from each other.

 borrow explanations from each other.
Infatti, come è stato fatto notare tempo fa su questo gruppo, è difficile
trovare una spiegazione dignitosa di "between vs. among". Cercando in rete
si trovano migliaia di pagine con i soliti luoghi comuni.
Ciao, FB

Schríobh Tony the ice man :
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...
Io intendevo proprio il significato 'linguistico' del prefisso -meta:
metalinguaggio = linguaggio che parla di se stesso, e così via. Qui la
spiegazione E' una spiegazione in se stessa, ergo...
-- 
Slán abhaile,
Frances
[remove LASEMESTE' for direct mailing]

 spiegazione E' una spiegazione in se stessa, ergo...
Lo so. Vedi che mi piace giocare con parole e scegli leggere la mia risposta
in modo letterale? Infatti, si puň mettere il prefisso 'meta' all'inizio
d'ogni sostantivo, come in italiano immagino.

 d'ogni sostantivo, come in italiano immagino.
Che bello! Così, come in italiano, bisogna poi spiegare all'interlocutore
cosa si intende :) Thanx a bunch, Tony. 


 
 
Pero` Google non lo ha archiviato (e so anche il perche', stupido
Google... e stupido io!), quasi quasi provo a rispedirlo  :)
-- 
Enrico C

 ha scritto nel
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Yep!
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