Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: On law and lawiers

Today when I was reading Gulliver's travel, I have thought that what Swift
said about law of his period is similar to law of modern times, For example
many lawiers are corrupted, a lawier can prove that white is black, or black
is white, all people are slave to this society.
What do you think?


This is especially true in america, where all of society is held in
place by people's fear of law suits and being sued.  I'm sure most
people around the world have heard of the O.J. Simpson case.  It is
easy to come to the conclusion(and most people do believe) that O.J.
Simpson did murder his wife and another guy.  But, the case was
dragged out for a few years and in the end he ended up going free.
And this is fairly common in america.  At times it seems that laywers
run the country.
Dave

This is especially true in america,
ROTFL. Never been in Italy?
; )
cheers,
Peltio

 What do you think?
That, to begin with, we should talk about lawYers! ;-)))
To come to the point, I'm not a lawyer, but I think that generalizations
("many lawyers are corrupted") are always wrong. There are good and bad
lawyers, just as good and bad teachers or doctors or grocers.
As for "all people are slave to this society" I don't really understand
what you mean.
ciao
lucio
-- 
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Thank you, Lucio, for suggesting that it is unwise to generalize.  But I can't
resist the temptation to ignore your advice. Having practiced law in the US for
45 years, I would say that, in general, I find a higher degree of ethical
behavior and more concern for societal values among my brothers and sisters at
the bar than I do in society generally.  To the extent that some lawyers in my
country conform to the unpleasant stereotype epitomized by the joke, "It's just
98% of the lawyers who give the rest of us a bad name," they are simply
behaving as their clients would have them behave.  
Yes, certain elements in the bar have become less civil, more litigious, and
avaricious, but one could apply the same description to many nonlawyers in
large and small businesses, as well as to  mechanics, trades people, teachers,
journalists, politicians and clergy.  
In somma io sono stufo di questa calunnia!
David

 among my brothers and sisters at  the bar
Strano esempio mi sono detto... pensando a qualcosa stile "Cheers" ;)

Sei serio?  "Bar" in questo senso vuol dire la fraternita' degli avvocati. Se
mi prendi in giro, l'offesa e' piu' grande delle barzelette!

 Se mi prendi in giro, l'offesa e' piu' grande delle barzelette!
What? Io ridevo della mia prima traduzione ... cos'e' avete la coda
facilmente infiammabile?

mi prendi in giro, l'offesa e' piu' grande delle barzelette!
I believe "one's colleagues at the bar" refers to barristers
only, not solicitors, ie. not all lawyers - only those who attend
and argue in court on behalf of their clients.
At least in the British system, a lawyer can be "elevated to
the bar" - a term which elicits all sorts of images.
Ciao,
Raymot
===========
(... who will not take a shot at lawyers today, because his solicitor 
is currently doing a good job with his conveyancing)
[[[[[[[[[

 ha scritto nel a messaggio
- Avvocato, qual'e' il suo onorario?
- Dieci milioni ogni tre domande.
- Ma ... non le sembra un po' caro?
- No. Ora mi faccia la terza domanda.

Not in the US.  We do not recognize the barrister/solicitor dichotomy. In
theory, any person licensed to practice law in a given state may appear in the
courts of that state on behalf of clients.  Federal courts, at least in
Illinois, require a certain level of trial experience before a lawyer is
permitted to act as lead counsel for a litigant.  As a practical matter, in
larger cities, and even in many smaller ones, there is a certain degree of
specialization, and lawyers who handle transactional work rarely attempt to
handle cases in court. As in medicine, there are so many complex
subspecialties, that the general practitioner has become a rarity.  A pity in a
way, because the kind of generalized experience professionals used to acquire
gave them an overview that I believe added something to their analyses. 
Specialists sometimes are so imbued with their own mystique that they tend to
have difficulty seeing the larger picture - like the estate planners who look
askance when the client says he'd rather his heirs paid more in death duties if
that is the cost of protecting them from their own improvidence. My
congratulations to your conveyancer for having an appreciative client.
David

 Not in the US.  We do not recognize the barrister/solicitor dichotomy. In
Dear David,
I hope I might be permitted to request that when you write in answer to
something, as your post clearly was, you might include at the beginning of
your message the relevant part of the post which you are replying to or
commenting on.
 Since not all news readers are alike and since some do not keep
conversations in threads, it can be quite difficult to know what you are
referring to.
Your post was enlightening however and I thank you.
--
I remain, as always, ecc., ecc.,
Bambi
dtb