Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Be + infinitive

I was reading Swan's grammar book to discover how to correctly use the
construction "be+infinitive".
This was the phrase which gave me doubts:
She was nowhere to be found.
How can I transale this phrase in italian?
I don't understand its meaning...
dryade

 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:h7bua0dk6kpjlig7b...@4ax.com...

< Non si riusciva a trovarla da nessuna parte .
Yours
Sal

 < Non si riusciva a trovarla da nessuna parte .
Forse "She was to be found nowhere" è più chiaro o quella è una
quasi-frase-fatta? Io la vedo come "Non ci era dato di trovarla da nessuna
parte", ma ovviamente solo per capire meglio la costruzione inglese.
Ciao, FB
-- 
"Gli americani sono ignoranti per loro stessa natura"
that is "The Americans are naturally ignorant"
(Paolo Bonardi on it.cultura.linguistica)

 parte", ma ovviamente solo per capire meglio la costruzione inglese.
io l'ho sentita più di un paio di volte, credo che sia una frase fatta.

 quasi-frase-fatta? 
E' una frase fatta.
-- 
Mary

, Ice wrote...

Si', "Nowhere to be found" e' una frase fatta.
-- 
I am Joey's Cat
Un-not my address, too, if you wanna reply.



O.K., grazie.
Ciao, FB
-- 
Non devi uccidere la zecca ma solo impedirle di respirare.
(da it.discussioni.animali.cani)

 Si', "Nowhere to be found" e' una frase fatta.
Però la medesima costruzione è usata anche con participi diversi da 'found'.
Ad esempio: "nowhere to be seen". O no?
Max

, Max M. wrote...

Si', anche queste: "nowhere to be had" 'nowhere to be heard" ecc. 
Suppongo che sia meglio dire che "nowhere to be..." e' la frase fatta, ma 
attenzione, non si puo' usare con tutti i verbi.


She was nowhere to be found.
How's that "be+ infinitive?"  Found is not infinitive.  It's past participle.  
It's "to find" in the passive voice.  Non mi viene in mente nessun esempio in
inglese con be e l'infinito.
bye
ari

, GFCARRERA 
wrote...

Wow. It's a good thing *someone's* awake. You're right... a classic 
example of not seeing the forest for the trees: we knew what he meant, 
but not what he said. :(


 wrote in message
news:MPG.1b1995b1d...@news.verizon.net...

Sorry , puss , but I can't agree this time . If  'to be found' is ''to find'
in the passive voice' , then it's the passive infinitive (which is an
infinitive , not a past participle ; it may be constructed using the past
participle , but so are other forms of the verb) .
On reflection , I see that we're at cross-purposes about which 'be' is
followed by the infinitive : it would be clearer if the original
construction had been referred to as 'to be + infinitive' ; so , in the
example , we have 'was' (finite part of 'to be') followed by the (passive)
infinitive 'to be found' - 'was + to be found' . Though the placing of
'nowhere' in the given sentence is idiomatic , you can say , for example,
'She was to be found every morning in the garden' ; 'he is not to be relied
on' etc. The verb 'to be' here has the sense of 'could' : 'She could not be
found anywhere ' ; 'she could be found every morning in the garden' ; 'he
cannot be relied on'.
Mike

in the passive voice' , t
I think we all know that.  That's not what the original post asked .  The
question was  about "to be + infinitive" and I made a comment saying that "to
be found" was not an example of "to be + infinitive" .  Is "to be found" an
example of to be + infinitve in your opinion?  I am not saying infinitive, but
TO BE + infinitive.  It is an infinitive in the passive voice.   
bye
Ari

example of to be + infinitve in your opinion?
No. But "was not to be found" is. WAS NOT is from "to be" and "to be"
is an infinitive, so maybe this counts.
More obvious examples of "to be + infinitive" would be things like
"Prince Charles is to visit Thailand this summer", "I was to win the
Nobel Prize only 4 years after my discovery"
I _guess_ "Were I to be given a
chocolate ice cream by a blonde Japanese woman with blue eyes, my life
would be complete", is also an example of this in the same way that
"He was nowhere to be found" is.
-- 
Adam Atkinson (
gh...@mistral.co.uk
)
It's another notch in the first rung on the slippery slope
towards fascism.

 "He was nowhere to be found" is.
You've got ("you got"?) the point. The pattern is "to be <infinitive,
active or passive>".
Bye, FB
-- 
L'importante è che risplenda tu, sola primadonna e immarcescibile leggenda
del tuo pianerottolo.
Lucangel

 active or passive>".
you got the point.

How's that "be+ infinitive?"  Found is not infinitive.  It's past participle.  
But "to be found" is passive infinitive.
dryade

dryade
I  know.  I said so.  Sometimes I think I am writing in Arabic instead of
English.  I know it's the infinitive n the passive voice, but it's NOT the verb
"to be + infinitive".  Look at the subject line.

 "to be + infinitive".  Look at the subject line.
It is, why not? 
"She was nowhere to be found" ==> "to be (verb to be) nowhere to be found
(passive infinitive)".
Bye, FB


verb "to be + infinitive".  Look at the subject line.
But "was to be found" has a form of the verb to be (namely "was")
followed by an infinitive (namely "to be"). In what way does this fail
to be an example of the phenomenon in the subject line?
Or do you need "to be" before the infinitive to be an infinitive as
well? "to be to go", or something. I don't know when I'd say anything
like that, so that can't be what you mean.
I'd say "Were I to be given an ice cream" is an example to, since
"Were I" is a form of to be (past subjunctive, first person) and it's
followed by an infinitive (to be, in this case).
Is "Prince Charles is to visit Tonga" a valid example?
-- 
Adam Atkinson (
gh...@mistral.co.uk
)
Man is a giddy thing, and this is my conclusion.
(Much Ado About Nothing)

It is, why not? 
The passive infinitive is "to be found", so the subject should have
been "passive infinitive" or be + "past participle". "To be found" is
not "to be + infinitive". "To be + infinitive" is "to be to visit", as
Adam pointed out, while "to be + past participle" is "to be found" and
the result is a "passive infinitive".
Sebastiano



To visit ==> infinitive
to be found ==> passive infinitive
She is (i.e. verb "to be") to visit (i.e. infinitive)
She is (i.e. verb "to be") nowhere to be found (i.e. passive infinitive)
I don't mean "she is found", but "she is... to be found".
In both cases we have "to be + <infinitive, active or passive>". What's
wrong?
Bye, FB
-- 
Se dico "siedi!" manca l'oggetto.
Siedo chi? Lei o me?
(da it.cultura.linguistica.italiano)


I think Sebastiano gave a good explanation.
bye
ari



Ho risposto a Sebastiano.
Proviamo con un altro verbo:
"She happens to be busy"
Questo è o non è "to happen to be busy" (to happen + infinito, in questo
caso di "to be")
La frase era
"She is nowhere to be found"
She is ==> verbo "to be"
to be found ==> infinito, in questo caso passivo
"to be" + infinito (in questo caso infinito passivo di "to be")
Sbaglio?


 "to be" + infinito (in questo caso infinito passivo di "to be"
in questo caso infinito passivo di "to find")
Ciao, FB


wrong?
Nothing, but if I read infinitive I don't think about the passive one,
because it's quite different.
"to be + infinitive (passive and active)
to be to visit
to be to be visited
That's it.
"to be nowere to be found" è una frase fatta.
Credo che il dubbio sia venuto per quel motivo. Ma non credo sia
necessario discutere ancora su questo. :) A me il dubbio era venuto
perché non avevo considerato il primo was - che poteva essere, a mio
avviso, qualsiasi verbo, ma solo sulla seconda parte, che appunto era
un "passive infinitive". Considerando anche il primo abbiamo "to be +
passive infinitive" che - in fin dei conti - è "to be + "un certo tipo
di infinitive" e quindi "to be + infinitive" non è sbagliato. Mea
culpa che non ci avevo pensato. :)
Sebastiano

 culpa che non ci avevo pensato. :)
Niente di grave. Siccome anche Arianna era (č?) del tuo avviso, mi chiedevo
se io fossi cieco o cosa. (faccina sorridente)
Ciao, FB
