Newsgroup: it.comp.os.win.windows10
Titolo: Fine di Windows 10 vicina?

Ma son pazzi questi!!!
https://www.zeusnews.it/n.php?c=30080
 
Ci sarà un terremoto senza precedenti!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
-- 
Don Fizzy © on MV 910R "Maverick"
"Non c'é trucco non v'é inganno"
   Presidente F.I.E. in trasferta
       /)/)
      ( '.')
   o(_('')('')   That's all, folks! ®
Nessun bit è stato maltrattato
per spedire questo messaggio. 
 

 Ci sarà un terremoto senza precedenti!
 
Come no, terremoto, maremoto, alluvione, giganteschi sommovimenti 
atmosferici, le cavallette...
 
Pandemie no, siamo ancora troppo freschi.

 Ci sarà un terremoto senza precedenti!
 
 
l'unico problema è la compatibilità hardware, tutti quei vecchi pc che 
ci sono in giro che sistema dovrebbero montare?
 

 Pandemie no, siamo ancora troppo freschi.
 
io prendo una glaciazione, grazie.


Linux per esempio?

 Ci sarà un terremoto senza precedenti!
 
si, mo' me lo segno (cit)
premesso che:
- non e' che win10 smette improvvisamente di funzionare
- che gli aggiornamenti di sicurezza continueranno ancora un po' di 
tempo
- che c'e' gente che ha usato XP ben oltre la fine del supporto
- che alcuni si vantavano di continuare ad usare outlook express (e 
hanno fatto salti mortali per portarselo dietro sui sistemi piu' 
recenti
- che c'e' un'infinita' di sistemi alternativi (varie distribuzioni 
linux)
- che comunque il modo di forzare l'installazione di win 11 anche su 
macchine non ufficialmente supportate c'e' gia' (e per ora funziona)
 
direi che non c'e' da preoccuparsi

Colorblind scrive:
 
| On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 17:53:36 +0100
| Don Fizzy® <zio.fiz...@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
|
|| Ma son pazzi questi!!!
|| 
https://www.zeusnews.it/n.php?c=30080
 
|| Ci sarà un terremoto senza precedenti!
|
| Ma va là!
| Come sempre accaduto in passato, ci sarà la solita marcia indietro di
| M$
| Oppure verrà fuori un qualche escamotage che bypassa il problema.
| O, come ultima ratio, stavolta ci potrebbe essere un passaggio di
| massa a Linux. Ma l'ultima ipotesi la vedo comunque poco realistica
 
Ovviamente il mio post era ironico, visto che uso con estrema 
soddisfaZZione windows 7x64
 
Ho lollato/trollato un po'


 soddisfaZZione windows 7x64
 
+1

 Linux per esempio?
 
AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

 aggiungo: ed esiste ancora qualcuno che si ostina ad usarlo (non io :P ).
 
purtroppo si
 

 O, come ultima ratio, stavolta ci potrebbe essere un passaggio di massa a Linux.
 
ma quale linucs
chi ha un pc datato molto probabilmente non è o non gli interessa un 
upgrade hardware e di certo non si va a impelacare in un sistema 
operativo ostico, brutto e antipatico.
 

 windows 7x64
 
annamo bene, proprio bene
 

 purtroppo si
 
ci sono casi in cui e' necessario tenere xp purtroppo. Ma sono casi 
molto particolari e si tratta di macchine fuori rete.


Una macchina virtuale XP da 30 GB (per un paio di applicazioni che 
funzionano solo lì è pure troppo) et voilà Windows 10-11-12 e Windows XP 
nella stessa sessione

 XP nella stessa sessione
 
Esatto, invece di tenere in piedi un computer fisico solo per fare
girare XP (o qualsiasi altro OS), conviene trasformare il tutto in una
VM ed a quel punto si potrà far girare la stessa dove e come si vuole
 
un esempio
 
https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=60896
 
 
 
 
 
 

 hanno fatto salti mortali per portarselo dietro sui sistemi piu' recenti
 
Questo mi ricorda che mi sono dimenticato il thread in cui si facevano i 
salti mortali suddetti... e che sarei disposto a farli.
 
 
Fabrizio
 

 il thread "sotto".
 
dovrebbe metterlo sopra?
 
 


penso di averne fatto parte, anche a me non dispiaceva il suo mix di 
praticità-caratteristiche d'uso rispetto ai vari client che si sono 
succeduti, che poi ormai sia scaduto in cybersicurezza e capienza non 
c'è dubbio (superati i 2GB l'archivio email esplode e i suoi brandelli 
in cielo compongono la scritta ZIO CANTANTE), ma tenendo conto delle 
premesse ed essendo sicuri di riuscire a controllare queste negatività, 
per me chiunque può liberamente aver voglia di riabbracciarlo.
 
Ora come ora per Win 8-10-11 non si trova praticamente nulla se non un 
suo clone commerciale, OE Classic, che ne ricalca l'interfaccia ma non è 
l'originale.
 
Deprecato da MS e inutilizzabile nella pratica per via di API -se non 
ricordo male- che sugli attuali sistemi non ci sono più, tempo fa un 
volenteroso sviluppatore ne realizzò una versione mod installabile sui 
recenti Win facendo in modo che tutto il necessario si trovi in una 
cartella senza dover richiamare librerie non più esistenti in giro per 
il sistema.
 
L'ho brevemente provata su Win 10 e ha funzionato, ma fatto ciò mi 
accontentai di constatare che la cosa fosse fattibile e non l'ho più 
considerato, mi basta sapere che c'è in caso di crisi acuta..... ma 
anche perchè in fondo non posso essere sicuro che il suo uso frequente 
non causi qualche guaio silente. Per un paio di giorni l'ho configurato 
col mio account e usato senza problemi, poi ho smesso.
Si è trattato di 3-4 anni fa
 

 VM ed a quel punto si potrà far girare la stessa dove e come si vuole
 
purtroppo non e' possibile. Si tratta di macchine di laboratorio con 
schede di espansione propprietarie, molto spesso su bus isa.
Sostituire il pc costerebbe 500 euro; il nuovo software e hardware 
magari anche 200k
Meglio tenere in piedi il piu' possibile quello che c'e'

 salti mortali suddetti... e che sarei disposto a farli.
 
de gustibus...

Adriano scrive:

ESATTAMENTE
Ho un amico che ha una fabbrichetta e stampa su un plotter e lavora su 
una macchina a controllo numerico che SOLO xp può far funzionare. Ergo 
non cambierà MAI quel pc nemmeno se lo paghi. Per l'ufficio non ha 
problemi nemmeno a mettere Windows Sentordici, ma il lavoro (LUI) lo fa 
tramite XP.
Rigorosamente OFFLINE.


recenti
 
Vero, io sono uno di questi.
 
 

Fabrizio
 

l'originale.
 
Eh no. Trovi il clone commerciale che dici te poi trovi un'altra
versione free senza cavolate messe dentro, che era qua ma non esiste
piu.
 
https://sites.google.com/site/sites/system/errors/WebspaceNotFound?path=/simpledotnet/outlook-express-6
 
 
O meglio forse esiste ancora quella pagina, ma e' stata migrata....
fortuna mi sono salvato il tutto eoni fa.
 
 
Uno mi pare sia OE RUN as XP, ha un nome strano.
 
OE Classic non vorrei che magari sia una terza versione, fammi vedere,
gia e' una cosa diversa da quella che avevo visto io. Dopo me la
guardo che se e' compatibile con lo STARTTLS e legge la base messaggi
di OE Nativa..... quasi quasi.......
 
 

 Vero, io sono uno di questi.
 
vabbe', come patologia avra' anche un nome ;-)
scherzi a parte: a meno di non poteri permettere un pc ragionevolmente 
recente, insistere ad usare XP e' da autolesionisti.
Su OE non mi esprimo nemmeno. Imho faceva cagare gia' da nuovo.
Pensa che dove lavoravo insistevano nell'usare quello di default, pur 
avendo un contratto enterprise per office. Ho perso il conto della 
posta fumata per colpa di quella troiata di OE, ma siccome non decidevo 
io, e tanto il mio stipendio restava uguale, dopo aver fatto notare 
l'idiozia di quella scelta, ho preferito fregarmene.
per fare un esempio: ho visto OE franare miseramente con archivi di 
posta da 2 Gb, e Outlook (all'epoca direi a spanne quello di office 
2007) reggere con archivi di posta da 25 gb.
 
p.s. con i pc dell'epoca, senza dischi ssd, archiviare la posta per 
anno era impensabile: troppo tempo richiesto, troppi utenti da seguire 
e tanto altro da fare. Potevamo spiegare come fare; abbiamo fatto anche 
due righe di spiegazione passo passo, ma visto che poi nessuno lo 
faceva, abbiamo optato per il classico "cazzi loro".


Outlook Express for Windows 7-8.1-10 (x86-x64 Bit)
https://archive.org/details/OutlookExpressForWindows78.110x86X64Bit
 
-- 
    * b *
  *   y   *
*   Pierо   *
#v+
-cogito ergo sum-
#v-
 
 

 dovrebbe metterlo sopra?
 
OE indenta i thread, cosi' che, se tu rispondi al mio commento, parte un 
sottothread e lo vedi immediatamente.
 
Non ho la stessa cosa nell'uccello di tuono, giacche' vedo tutto in 
fila, sotto al primo messaggio.
 
Vale, ovviamente, che io non abbia ancora trovato il settaggio adatto... 
ma anche li', vale anche che OE era piu' user friendly.
 
 
Fabrizio
 
 

 Guarda, oramai questi bastardi ci hanno segato OE, per la serie con
 
Io riuscii a far funzionare OE con XP ed un'email di lavoro, tra l'altro 
facendolo "presentare" come server SMTP (senno' non andava) e per 
quell'uso, andava benissimo. Quel PC ando' avanti per anni e senza 
nemmeno pagare l'esoso contratto di protez... cioe', "assistenza", 
finche' il database non esplose (quello del programma apposito, non OE 
che non aveva colpa, poverino).
 
Ma trovassi quel vecchio porting su W10 del vecchio OE, SOLO PER 
NEWSGROUP, credo che lo userei.
 
 
Fabrizio
 
 
 

 succeduti, che poi ormai sia scaduto in cybersicurezza e capienza non 
[...]
 
Ho usato OE per un bel pezzo ma SOLTANTO con "FidoLook" che aggiungeva
una serie di funzionalità importanti e mancanti in OE, quando MS ha
deciso di abbandonare OE, siccome sapevo perfettamente che OE era molto
integrato con il sistema (DLL, registry ed altro), ho deciso di trovare
un altro client che mi piacesse ed alla fine, ormai da anni, sto usando
Claws-Mail 
 
https://www.claws-mail.org/
 
 
https://www.claws-mail.org/screenshots.php
 
 
le vecchie versioni avevano problemi vari, anche se non ho MAI perso
dati, l'ultima (la v3 non ho ancora provato la v4) è piuttosto stabile
ed inoltre, basta avere la pazienza di personalizzarla per ritrovarsi
con un client simile ad OE ma con molte funzionalità aggiuntive, per
quanto riguarda l'aspetto, il programma supporta varie "skin" che sono
facilmente installabili, mentre per le scorciatoie di tastiera si può
praticamente ridefinire tutto quello che si desidera, qui la galleria
dei temi (skin) ufficiali
 
https://www.claws-mail.org/themes.php
 
 
considerando che il setup è "pulito", ossia non sparge "roba" in giro,
potrebbe valer la pena provarlo, anche perchè è molto più leggerdo
dell'elefantiaco TB :-P
 
 
 

 
 
Io ho tentato per tre lustri di sostituire il P150 ("liscio") installato 
nel 1997 con qualcosa di piu' moderno, ero in grado di sostituire 
"tutto", ma davanti ai QUATTRO slot ISA occupati, cadevo ignominiosamente.
Ero pure riuscito a trovare lo SHARE che funzionasse col DOS7 di W98 
(che avevo "deprivato" dell'avvio grazie ad idonei programmi. Si avviava 
come W3.11 in pratica).
I migliori risultati, li avrei potuti fare con una slot one e TRE ISA, 
ma non bastavano.
Avevo sentito parlare di MB industriali, ma trovavo solo vaghi accenni.
 
Finii nel 2014, davanti all'oscena obsolescenza del sistema, di spendere 
una cifrona ed aggiornare il tutto. Con qualche lacrima, perche' sapevo 
molto bene quello che lasciavo (gli HD erano ancora quelli originali!)
 
 
Fabrizio
 

 di OE Nativa..... quasi quasi.......
 
OE Classic dicevo appunto essere clone commerciale di OE6, non stavo 
descrivendo due software distinti. Rimane il fatto che non è quello 
vero, se sei un feticista in cerca di originale non dovrebbe attrarti 
granchè.
 
Per quanto mi riguarda, quello che ho consiste in un archivio zip da 
scompattare in una cartella e si avvia da lì.
 
 

 dell'elefantiaco TB :-P
 
 
la versione OE6 di cui ho parlato io e che mi funziona, consiste in una 
cartella che contiene tutto il necessario e per avviarsi non deve 
cercare "Maria pe' Roma", cioè dll inesistenti in giro nel sistema.
Per il primo avvio necessita dell'esecuzione di un setup.bat che 
registra e abilita appunto le occorrenti dll presenti nella cartella.
 

 Avevo sentito parlare di MB industriali, ma trovavo solo vaghi accenni.
 
ne ho viste quando facevo installazioni industriali. pc praticamente su 
misura per fare un lavoro, con schermo touch e WIndows NT
Prezzi....proibitivi; mi dicevano rabetta da 5000 euro minimo. 
All'epoca esisteva windows 7 e con 5000 euro ti facevi una sala giochi.
Ricordo una rotativa in cui il banco di controllo aveva non so quante 
workstation per gestire le telecamere stroboscopiche per l'allineamnto 
dei colori, i rulli di stampa, le temperature del forno di essicazione 
ecc che avevano anche un "cubotto" che controllava dei semplici 
spruzzatori di acqua necessari a facilitare la piega della carta e che 
usava ancora windows 98. A vederlo, non sembrava nemmeno un pc.
Insomma, quando dicono "se funziona non si cambia", li' e' un principio 
veramente seguito.

NEWSGROUP, credo che lo userei.
 
Ma intendi la versione simpledotnet, che ci stava una paginetta html
semplice semplice e scaricavi la versione vanilla gia pronta oppure
avevi le istruzioni per fare tutto da solo, accedendo alla versione
presente su XP SP3 e seguendo le istruzioni per copiare tutto, mettere
tutto nella dir e poi registrare le .dll a mano nel sistema?
 
Se intendi questa. Io la possiedo ancora ed e' quella che sto usando
tutt'ora.
 
Considera che e' la stessa versione che si usava anche su W7.

granchè.
 
Ah ecco, guarda, va bene lo stesso, non deve essere originale, basta
che funziona con la stessa ottica, che purtroppo anche se TB funziona
ora e ho sistemato al 99%, non riesco a digerirlo, sono 30 anni che
uso OE e ci sono abituato.
 
E come Forte Agent 2.0 di 30 anni fa, stessa cosa, ho provato la
versione piu' recente, ma alla fine si rimane ancorati su una versione
arcaica, perche' sta gia facendo tutto quello che serve e la conosci a
menadito.
 
:D


https://archive.org/details/OutlookExpressForWindows78.110x86X64Bit
 
 
Guardato ma non so se sia la stessa mia attuale, ma in ogni caso ho
ritrovato la mia sullo stesso sito.
 
 
https://web.archive.org/web/20210616120057/https://sites.google.com/site/simpledotnet/outlook-express-6
 
 
 
Io ho sempre usato questa e sto ancora usando questa, fin dai tempi di
W7.
 
 
Ma senza StartTLS, mentre in pop3 gestisce ancora tutto, in smtp non
e' piu' compatibile con 
outlook.it
 o .com (errore che non ho mai
risolto) e persino con gmail (manda mail ma poi da errore una volta
processata e tale errore rimane solo sul web nella spam!!!!).
 
Anche utilizzare come smtp il tuo provider con login e password, non
va bene, gmail rifiuta cmq in maniera silente e alcune mail non
vengono processate, con outlook non ricordo, mi pare che da errore di
relay perche smtp e' un altro e non combacia e pensa che sei un mass
spammer. (ma forse erano le caselle di alice e di tiscali, se usavi
appunto una connessione alice che era permbannata dai vari smtp per
spam)

faceva, abbiamo optato per il classico "cazzi loro".
 
E alla fine anello debole rimane sempre utente Utonto. :D

registra e abilita appunto le occorrenti dll presenti nella cartella.
 
Si penso sia quella simpledotnet che ho ritrovato su 
archive.org
.
 
Ma quindi non stai usando il tool aggiuntivo?
 
Questo, che ha fatto un ragazzo francese se non ricordo male a cui ho
scritto relativo a un 'bug' o meglio 'svista' e l'ha risolta o meglio
l'ha aggirata e mi ha dato la soluzione.
 
https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/uac_pass.html
 
 
C:\Windows\System32\schtasks.exe /run /tn "UAC pass\msimn"
 
 
Allora io ho trovato questo problema, bisogna lanciarlo da
amministratore, ma ovviamente anche se spunti il flag nelle proprieta
del exe, compare la finestra di conferma.
 
Con questo tool invece lo lancia senza chiedere quella conferma e
senza fare modifiche al UAC in generale.
 
Qual'era il BUG?
 
Una volta configurato il tutto, OE non partiva a tutto schermo, ma
partiva tipo 1024x768 penso, quindi ogni volta dovevi metterlo a tutto
schermo. Cosa seccante. Alla fine il tizio mi ha detto che se mettevo
OE non a tutto schermo, ma allargavo io la finestra a mano lasciando
1pixel sopra sotto destra e sinistra e lo chiudevo, all'avvio
successivo si ricordava le dimensione e ripartiva correttamente.
 
Quindi si, praticamente non e' tutto schermo il mio OE, ma una
finestra al 99.9%, ma va bene lo stesso.
 
Tu evidentemente avrai risolto questa cosa della conferma in maniera
alternativa immagino...... o forse no? :)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Eh gia', perche' uno che ha bisogno di montare una scheda bus isa su un 
pc moderno adesso va a prendersi il chipset mux isa-pci
Ma va a cagher

 alternativa immagino...... o forse no? :)
 
no, come dicevo l'ho brevemente provato, visto che funzionava e poi 
lasciato lì, casomai avessi voglia di rimpatriate, questa cosa della 
conferma di amministratore e della finestra da ridimensionare non mi 
disturbava.
 
L'unico bug di cui mi sono occupato è che non quotava bene il testo di 
origine nelle risposte, c'era fin dai suoi anni ruggenti e si sistema 
con OE Quotefix
 

 E alla fine anello debole rimane sempre utente Utonto. :D
 
questa, alla fine della storia, dovrebbe essere la prima legge 
dell'informatica.
Ma la cosa peggiore non e' questa, ma il fatto che l'utontO non viene 
adeguatamente formato e messo in condizioni di non poter uscire da un 
percorso per quanto possibile sicuro.
Lavoro nella p.a. e ti assicuro che vedo cose che voi umani...


Il file si scarica ancora smanettando sulla pagina:
 
https://web.archive.org/web/20201008142334/https://84f0d7bc-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/simpledotnet/outlook-express-6/OE6.v0.4.Ita.sp3.zip?attachauth=ANoY7criCQ24mcCotwIfmNaj0uNuv59kw9iKozc30OdUJFZAROirSY0Xv8pZci0Oys3jZCw1zVV4ykSbtcgHRina9bFXv_NEnRMevcQtZNW03t0HGRNvipKEb5U6o0H8lxm8aDjH02sToJ_r7gyapqaeYKsPkA4TZ_MZieOqhsbCiq_sxbeM3kHCAZGsG5385cj1DPXjoTNtigy2PdiqHwE42r2qeDUCve9w-NQyV2ZD_xq-QxN06lvv29vKDSfIG1Ri9WV080It&attredirects=0&d=1
 
 
Non è uguale a quello che ho linkato io, questa è la sua analisi:
 
Nome: Outlook Express for Windows 7-8.1-10 (x86-x64 Bit).rar
Grandezza:   15MB (15.727.891 byte)
Tipo: RAR archive data, v4, os: Win32
Visto per la prima volta:   24 ottobre 2021 10:59:11 CEST
MD5: 5ad9efa2194ec153173295e54208b610
SHA1: 7cd2281ead5a8c6e1c243e9d3809c2e15e2c95d9
 
Questa è l'analisi di quello scaricato dal tuo link:
 
Nome: OE6.v0.4.Ita.sp3.zip
Grandezza:   3,89MB (4.074.497 byte)
Tipo: Zip archive
Visto per la prima volta:   3 novembre 2023 18:05:27 CET
MD5: 6c14b4ee8d3f66511b0905f678a7a52b
SHA1: fb06af0155dd13b5c95e61f361bf994621d20970
-- 
    * b *
  *   y   *
*   Pierо   *
#v+
Ho nascosto qualche grammo di cervello per uso personale.
#v-
 
 

Grandezza:   3,89MB (4.074.497 byte)
 
Bene, quindi la reale differenza quale sara'? Quella che io so di
avere e' la versione originale che era presente su XP.
 
L'altro sicuramente se sono 15mb e' diverso, forse ricompilato anche
per essere a 64 bit quindi diventato piu' grande?
 
Ah no aspetta ho appena guardato il mio eseguibile, sono 61kb, quindi
hai guardato l'intera dimensione del pacchetto con tutti i files, ora
ci guardo dentro pure io.
 
 

con OE Quotefix
 
Vero. Infatti lo usavo ai tempi. Sistemava piu' di un bug, non solo il
Quote ma anche la lunghezza massima impostata a 72, altrimenti a volte
andava a capo male e chi leggeva non si trovava correttamente il Quote
con il simbolo ">" davanti.
 
 
 
 

 ma anche li', vale anche che OE era piu' user friendly.
 
visualizzazione ad albero
 

 dell'elefantiaco TB :-P
 
Mi sento "lievemente" spaesato.
 
 
Fabrizio
 
 

 Mi sento "lievemente" spaesato.
 
Se ti aspetti un "installo ed è come dico io" allora passa oltre :P !
come ho scritto, ci vuole un minimo di pazienza per personalizzare il
tutto in modo che funzioni come si desidera (come si è abituati), poi
si scoprono parecchie cose, come ad esempio le regole di elaborazione
e di filtraggio che sono molto più flessibili/potenti di quelle di OE
 
 

 freccia.
 
menù
 preferences
  display
   summaries
    message list
     open message when selected
       spunta su "always"
 
ripeto, se non hai voglia di personalizzarlo, lascia perdere e via