Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: [?] She took to grave

cosa significa questo titolo sulla copertina di un giornale:
 
Donna Summer
Tragic secret: she took to grave
 
qui il giornale:
http://d.repubblica.it/rubriche/people-gossip/2012/05/24/foto/travolta_foto-1044339/1/
 

 Tragic secret: she took to grave
 
I due punti li hai aggiunti tu e sono quelli che non ti fanno capire: 
"il tragico segreto che si è portata nella tomba".


hai ragione
 
ma perchè non c'è l'articolo "the" davanti a "tragic secret" (che mi
avrebbe fatto capire meglio?) 

 avrebbe fatto capire meglio?)
 
Č titolo. Si fa breve la frase, per fare piů forte l'effetto.

 (che mi avrebbe fatto capire meglio?)
 
 
___________________
CLAMOROSA SCOPERTA:
TITOLI POCO SPAZIO!
___________________
 
:-)
 
 
-- 
"Women might be able to fake orgasms. But men can fake whole
relationships."
                -- Sharon Stone
 

):

Newspapers, magazines and other publications will usually shorten headlines 
for the main purpose of saving space: there's not a lot of available space 
there, so unnecessary words are often dropped. Definite and indefinite 
articles are usually the first to go.
 
-- 
Joey from New York
Among those whom I like or admire, I can find no common denominator,
but among those whom I love, I can: all of them make me laugh.
   -- WH Auden
 

 
 
Ditto. You beat me to it.


 Ditto. You beat me to it.
 
 
Tony won the race.
 
 
-- 
"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch."
                -- Jack Nicholson
 

 "NEI TITOLI POCO SPAZIO", maybe.
 
Also
   TITOLI: POCO SPAZIO
 
Kiuhnm

 Tony won the race
 
But for a different reason: to emphasize the phrase.
 
-- 
Joey from New York
Among those whom I like or admire, I can findï¿œno common denominator,
but among thoseï¿œwhom I love, I can: all of them make me laugh.
ï¿œ ï¿œ-- WH Auden
 

 Tragic secret: she took to grave
 
Tragico segreto - se l'e' portato nella tomba
 
?

):

Not quite. It's already been established that the cryptic quality of the 
phrase is a result of it being a (newspaper) headline, which are routinely 
truncated because of space limitations. Also, the colon ( : ) did not appear 
in the original version.
 
If there had been room, it would have read something like.
 
"Donna Summer
[The] Tragic Secret [that] She Took to [Her] Grave."
 
-- 
Joey from New York
Among those whom I like or admire, I can find no common denominator,
but among those whom I love, I can: all of them make me laugh.
   -- WH Auden
 

 [The] Tragic Secret [that] She Took to [Her] Grave."
 
Io leggo: il segreto che lei (essa, Donna Ssummer, soggetto) ha portato 
(= custodito) nella [sua] tomba.  Se e' cosi', e' la stessa cosa che ho 
scritto io.
 
Altrimenti se intendi: Il segreto (soggetto) che ha portato (= causato) 
(Donna Summer, oggetto) nella tomba, allora il titolo originale sarebbe 
dovuto essere: Tragic secret / took her to grave
 
imho
 
took e' accompagnamento o causativo??
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 dovuto essere: Tragic secret / took her to grave
 
Mi piace sempre quando su questo NG, ogni tanto, arriva quello che dà 
lezione d'inglese ai madrelingua.
 

 il font, a indicare comunque uno stacco.
 
In questo caso, font e colore indicano /stress/, mentre i due punti 
indicano "more information follows". Sono due cose diverse.
Il problema è che
   "Tragic secret: she took to grave"
è sgrammaticato. E' come scrivere
   "Penso che: andrò a farmi un giro".
La frase sarebbe dovuta essere:
   "Tragic secret: she took it to grave"
che avrebbe comunque lasciato molto a desiderare.
 
Kiuhnm

 imho
 
Yes, but that's not what I meant, nor is it what the original headline 
implied.
 
Is there anything else you want to teach me?  :)


 imho
 
Yes, but that's not what I meant, nor is it what the original headline 
implied.
 
Simply put, the sentence means 'The tragic secret that she took to the/her 
grave."
 
Is there anything else you want to teach me?  :)
 


 
 
Me too.


 che avrebbe comunque lasciato molto a desiderare.
 
Correct all around. In fact, the phrase "she took to grave" could be inferred 
as "she went to (the/her) grave," because of the rather common expression 
"take to bed" in the intransitive sense, not the transitive. Meaning "went 
to."
 
"She was ill for many days before she finally took to her bed."
 
If that were the case, with the colon intact the headline in question could 
possibly mean:
"Tragic Secret: She Went to her Grave"
which is as ambiguous as all get-out, and if I were the editor reviewing that 
reporter's headline, I would probably tell him/her to get another job.


 indicano "more information follows". Sono due cose diverse.
 
Francamente mi sembra una sottigliezza
 

 [The] Tragic Secret [that] She Took to [Her] Grave."
 
"Tragic secret she took to the grave" is a better headline than "The 
tragic secret that she took to her grave." Of course headlines are 
truncated because of space limitations, but focusing on that puts the 
cart before the horse. The purpose of a headline is to scream for 
attention from the reader. If it were just an issue of space, the font 
could be reduced to include all the words required in a proper sentence. 
But a smaller font would lessen the effect so that's not done. The art 
of newspaper headline writing is to eliminate words unnecessary for the 
meaning because they lessen the impact and slow down the reading.
 


La differenza non è proprio sottilissima. I due punti spezzano la frase 
in due parti di cui una è sicuramente scorretta (i madrelingua 
confermano, ma comunque si vede bene).
Lo stress invece non altera la struttura logica della frase e serve 
semplicemente a dare enfasi a una parte del discorso.
 
Kiuhnm

 But a smaller font would lessen the effect so that's not done.
 
Exactly. I think you're saying the same thing.
 
Kiuhnm


What I'm saying is exactly what I said in my first post on this topic. 
In essence, fruit & vegetable vendors don't put signs on their products 
that say "I will sell you 5 bananas for 1 Euro" because they are 
concerned about a space limitation. They want you to read their sign 
quickly and get the main idea.
 
Our original poster, with the severely shortened name of 'a', even if he 
mistakenly add a colon, was asking why the article "the" was not 
included in the headline. "The bananas, 5/1 Euro."

    TITOLI: POCO SPAZIO
 
 
Ottimo, sei assunto (ma precario)
:-)
 
 
-- 
"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up
with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and
sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words: it is
war minus the shooting."
                -- George Orwell
 

included in the headline. 
 
i mistakenly add a colon;
 
i think i add it because an unconscious mental processes:
i think that the phrase "tragic secret she took to grave" had no sense to
me 
so
the only way to give the phrase a sense was using the colon
"tragic secret: she took to grave"
but doing so, was unable to understand the phrase "she took to grave" 
so i wrote a post on this NG 
 
i was thinking a sort of
tragic secret: she took [herself] to grave 
that is
tragic secret: she killed herself
 
 


You were expecting a full sentence while "tragic secret she took to 
grave" is just a noun-phrase where "(that) she took to grave" acts like 
an adjective. I think that title is quite odd, in fact the relative 
article should talk about this "tragic secret", but if she took it to 
grave how can they talk about it?
But let's talk about Travolta...
 
Kiuhnm

 grave how can they talk about it?
 
I don't find the title all that odd, and it's even less so for tabloid press.
Also, I think your question is meant to be flip (=flippant, qv), but that's 
how tabloids operate: sensationalism. The idea is that the reporter has 
uncovered this "tragic secret" and is about to expose it, overlooking the 
adage "De mortuis nil nisi bonum."
 
-- 
Joey from New York


 adage "De mortuis nil nisi bonum."
 
It seems that reporter literally /uncovered/ that secret: he dug it up!
 
Kiuhnm

):

Good point. :)
 
-- 
Joey from New York
Among those whom I like or admire, I can find no common denominator,
but among those whom I love, I can: all of them make me laugh.
   -- WH Auden
 

 that is tragic secret: she killed herself
 
Ci pensa, non c`è questo tipo di frase troncata anche nei titioli 
italiani, per cui si omettono gli articoli, gli aggettivi e i pronomi 
per fare la frase più potente?
 
 

per fare la frase pi� potente?
 
You have to write "Ci pensi"    :-)
 
 
Mmmhh... not an easy question... 
IN ITALIANO:
Secondo me in Italia ci stiamo pi� attenti;
sar� forse per la complessit� grammaticale della lingua italiana
che � come una cristalleria e si deve stare sempre molto attenti a non
variare o prendersi libert�, perch� senn� si va contro la grammatica, o
ancora peggio, contro il senso della frase.
 
 
Nota:
 
Tornando alla questione dell'articolo assente:
io l'articolo lo avrei messo;
perch� questa assenza non fa capire
se pu� trattarsi di un "The" oppure di un "A" .
 
E se fosse un "The", la frase avrebbe un particolare significato e cio�
l'autore ha individuato il secreto e lo racconta ai lettori,
mentre se fosse un "A" l'autore fa sapere che genericamente c'� un secreto,
ma i lettori non devono aspettarsi di vederlo raccontato perch� il tipo di
segreto non � stato individuato.
 
By the way:
anyone fron USA knows which secret is it?
 
 
 
 
 

potente
forte, incisivo 
 
 
 
 


Hey, thanks for the help. I wish I could spend more time on the language 
than I do and make better progress. I'm losing my ear. I wrote forte and 
then changed it to potente.

 anyone fron USA knows which secret is it?
 
I couldn't even give you the title of a song she sang other than to say 
it was probably a disco song.
 

> Now that I thing about it, I wanted to write "pensaci."
 
Cosa?

 anyone fron USA knows which secret is it?
 
<quote>
The National Enquirer has a teaser on the cover about Donna's "TRAGIC SECRET" 
which is revealed inside to be cancer. Tragic yes, but hardly a secret now.
<end quote>
 
So it's revealed to be an example of sensationalism at its best (or worst.)
 
http://www.donna-tribute.com/news.htm
 
 
-- 
Joey from New York



Sometimes I wonder what would happen if we always stuck with(*) our 
first choices. Would it be better or worse?
Here (*), for instance, I wrote 'stuck to' at first. Is it acceptable as 
well? I don't think so... :(
 
Kiuhnm

 well? I don't think so... :(
 
It would be acceptable, and even more graphic in a humorous way, but it 
would not have been the optimum choice. You did well to doubt yourself 
in this situation.
 
I still don't know why a preposition isn't acceptable between intendevo 
and scrivere.

 and scrivere.
 
No particular reason: it just isn't. But I'm sure some grammarians have 
come up with a reason: they always do.
"Intendevo scrivere", "volevo scrivere" and "dovevo scrivere" have no 
prepositions.
On the other hand, "continuo a pensarci" and "smetti di farlo" require a 
preposition whereas "I keep thinking about it" and "stop doing that" 
don't. Ok, there is also "stop to" but with a different meaning, as you 
know better than me.
I guess we'll have to live with these subtle differences between our 
languages.
 
Kiuhnm

 prepositions.
 
Thanks. I knew about volere, dovere, potere, ascoltare, amare, 
desiderare, fare, guardare, lasciare, preferire, sapere, sentire, 
vedere, basta, and bisogna.  Somehow, during all these years of 
infrequent exposure to Italian, intendere escaped my attention.