Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Punctuation: Dear John

Version 1
Dear John,
I want a man who knows what love is all about. You are generous,kind,
thoughtful. People who are not like you admit to being useless and
inferior.You have ruined me for other men. I yearn for you. I have no
feelings whatsoever when we're apart. I can be forever happy--will you
let me be yours?
Gloria
Alternatively -
Version 2
Dear John,
I want a man who knows what love is. All about you are generous, kind,
thoughtful people, who are not like you. Admit to being useless and
inferior.You have ruined me. For other men, I yearn. For you, I have
no feelings whatsoever. When we're apart, I can be forever happy.Will
you let me be?
Yours,
    Gloria.
I remain, ecc.
Bambi
dtb

Wow. I stored that on my favourite hard disk.
Let's see if you can help me with this...
A few years ago I saw a 1950s (or 60s) movie about a young mentally disabled
man which, after an experiment of some kind, became a brilliant scientist -
but only for a short period of time. He eventually got back to his original
state. (The actor that played the main character actually won an academy
award for his performance).
During his 'mutation' he wrote a sentence on a blackboard. The sentence was
full of "that"s and was apparently meaningless, but by placing a handful of
commas and periods here and there the guy showed, to his teacher
bewilderment, that it was plain english, instead.
No one recalls the movie, and the sentence?
I think the guy's name was Chuck, or Charlie...
Peltio,
now turning back to his original state.

I think the guy's name was Chuck, or Charlie...
"Charlie" (I due mondi di Charlie), USA 1968, regia di Ralph Nelson, con
Cliff Robertson, Claire Bloom.
Commovente adattamento del racconto "Fiori per Algernon" di Daniel Keys.
(Ringrazia Mereghetti!)
Anna


Bambi, that's a really cute one and not so "fictional" after all.  I guess
you could say it's a common situation:	version 1 -->> Jonh and Gloria at the
time they met.	version 2 ---->>> John and Gloria ten years after!!!! Do you
have more like this one?  please post them if you do. ciao Arianna
--== Sent via Deja.com 
http://www.deja.com/
 ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---

(Ringrazia Mereghetti!)
Grazie. Pensa che ho letto il racconto su una raccolta di fantascienza
(creedo fosse i vincitori dei premi Hugo). Lì però non c'era traccia della
frase.
Peltio

bewilderment, that it was plain english, instead.
As far as I can remember:
that that is is that that is not is not
(Punctuated version below (spoiler))
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
that that is, is. That that is not, is not
Enjoy!

That that is, is. That that is not, is not
Sure, but that "that" that that "that that" stands for is not that "that"
that
that other "that that" refers to.
Hence that "that" that is is not that "that" that is not.
Raymot
======
Brisbane, Australia
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[
--
Posted from 
qma...@enterprise.powerup.com.au
 [203.32.8.37]
via Mailgate.ORG Server - 
http://www.mailgate.org

Mi ricorda una frase simile, in cui mettere punctuation:
John where James had had had had had had had had had had had a better
effect on the teacher.
************Punctuated version below (spoiler)**********
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
John, where James had had "had", had had "had had", "had had" had had a
better
effect on the teacher.
Sembre che John stia spiegando che James ha fatto un testo per l'insegnante
d'inglese,
usando a varie punti sia "had" che "had had", e il secondo e' piaciuto di
piu' al'insegnante.
Un po' forzato, ma l'ho trovato divertente.

,


Hence that "that" that is is not that "that" that is not.
ROTFL, grandi !
 se ne avete delle altre postatele, come Peter qui sotto...
: )))))))
Grazie,
Peltio

effect on the teacher.
La terza virgola non va in inglese. Si ha bisogno almeno di un punto e
virgola.
"had had"; "had had" oppure "had had" – "had had" oppure "had had". "Had
had".
In inglese non si puo` unire due frase con una virgola.
Ciao,
Raymot


 In inglese non si puo` unire due frase con una virgola.
e in italiano si puo'?
ciao
arianna


 effect on the teacher.
Non ho capito proprio un tubo.  Eccone un altro:
Senza punteggiatura:
Woman without her man is nothing
Con la punteggiatura:
Woman!  Without her, man is nothing.
I agree with the second version.
ciao
Arianna


Dear Arianna,
I second the notion.
I remain, ecc,
Bambi
dtb
aria...@my-dejanews.com
 ha scritto :Non ho capito proprio un tubo.
Eccone un altro:
:Woman!  Without her, man is nothing.


ciao arianna
Dipende. 
In English the following is not correct:
My name is John, I'm a student.
Credo che in italiano si possa scrivere:
Mi chiamo Giovanni, sono studente.
Perhaps I should have said that while this construction might be
one sentence in Italian, it is not in English.


 e in italiano si puo'?
La punteggiatura puo` diventare parte essenziale di un testo.
E in quel caso, tutto e` permesso. leggere ad esempio
Gadda, per rendersene conto. E Joyce.
saluti
	-pls-

I agree with the second version.
So do I.
Ferdinando Chiodo

Non ho capito proprio un tubo.
Well, I'm not sure it's even interesting enough to clear it up, but
I'll try anyway.
Let's say, in the essay, James had used the words "cat" and "feline" at
different places.
Now I (who am neither John nor James) want to say to John:
John, comparing the points in the essay where James had used "feline", and
the points
where he had used "cat", "feline" had had a better effect on the teacher.
Now, just substitute "had had" for "had used", "had had" for "feline", and
"had" for "cat,
remove some redundant words, and you arrive at the initial sentence.
Thus it also becomes 'evident' that a comma is correct, not a semi-colon.

Thus it also becomes 'evident' that a comma is correct, not a semi-colon.
It's not only not evident. It's still wrong.
"John, where James had used "cat", had used "feline", "feline" had had a
better
effect on the teacher." This is not a correct English sentence. It's still
two correct
English sentences joined by a comma.
A correct sentence would be: "In the situation in which John, where James
had used
"cat", had used "feline", "feline" had had a better effect on the teacher."


"cat", had used "feline", "feline" had had a better effect on the teacher."
I finally see what Raymot was getting at; it turns out that all these years
I
had an inferior interpretation of the whole sentence, his works much
better!
In other words, Raymot, where Peter had had... no, let's just forget it :-)

Mi chiamo Giovanni, sono studente.
No. Ci vuole "almeno" un punto e virgola.
Caso mai si può scrivere: "Sono Giovanni, lo studente.", ma diventa una sola frase...
La virgola può essere usata solo per legare due frasi che hanno un rapporto
di consequenzialità o per separare una "incidentale" o semplicemente
per separare due parti di un'unica frase molto complessa al solo scopo
di renderne più comprensibile la lettura o semplicemente per interporre
una "pausa" per prendere "fiato"...
Ad esempio, nella frase precedente avrei potuto introdurre qualche virgola
per evitare che fosse letta "tutta d'un fiato"...
--
Er Roscio.


Scusa Roscio, ma non sono d'accordo: a mio parere in italiano si può
tranquillamente scrivere "Mi chiamo Anna, sono una merla indiana." O "Sono
un prete, mi chiamo Teodoro". E naturalmente si può scrivere: "Mi chiamo
Giovanni, sono studente, ho vent'anni, sono un gran bel tipo..."
La consequenzialità non è indispensabile; la virgola serve a staccare ma
anche a coordinare. No?
Comunque credo che per la punteggiatura ci voglia più orecchio che regole.
Anna

Anna
Thanks Anna,
The reason I asked (if indeed I asked anything -- I can't remember now) is
that on the ITA-ENG mailing list to which I subscribe, an Italian person
can write otherwise perfect English, but can be picked as being Italian as
soon as he writes, "Hi there, I'm John, I'm a student."
If this is an error in Italian, it's a very popular one.
Another give-away is not capitalising the first letter after the greeting:
"Hello all,
this is my first time on the list ..."
Ciao,


Mi chiamo Giovanni, sono studente.
Son Pereda, son ricco d'onore,
baccelliere mi fe' Salamanca;
saro` presto _in utroque_ dottore,
che' di studio ancor poco mi manca.
         (Francesco Maria Piave)
Ciao
Ferdinando Chiodo