Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Mind the spy!

No comment. Anche perchè ci avrei pure un po' paura di commentare...:
"The Guardian" (London) Saturday May 26, 2001
Leaked spy report names UK
Privacy warning across Europe
 European citizens are to be given an unprecedented warning about the
threat to their privacy from a highly controversial global eavesdropping
network led by the British and US intelligence services.
A leaked European parliament document reveals that individuals and
businesses will be urged to encode all electronic communications to
protect their emails and faxes from interception after Euro MPs found
overwhelming evidence of the existence of the shadowy electronic spying
system known as Echelon.
The MEPs' working document - which will form the basis of a report from
the parliament's temporary Echelon committee expected next week -
concludes that the primary purpose of the integrated system of spy
satellites and listening posts is to "intercept private and commercial
communications and not military communications".
The document - the result of the first high-level investigation into
Echelon - comes after years of growing concern about the use of the spy
network. Although evidence of its existence has been growing since the
mid-1990s, no government has officially acknowledged involvement.
The MEPs' report coincides with a warning that Echelon could become a
"cyber secret police". In a new book, Body of Secrets, about the US
national security agency and its links with Britain's GCHQ, James Bamford,
acknowledged to be the foremost American authority on the NSA, warned:
"The real issue is whether Echelon is doing away with individual privacy,
a basic human right."
Operated by the US and Britain, along with Canada, Australia and New
Zealand, Echelon was designed to gather intelligence during the cold war.
But in recent years, its unique global eavesdropping capabilities have
provoked allegations that it is being used to intercept personal and
commercially sensitive communications.
The MEPs' investigation was prompted by claims that the US had used
Echelon to steal sensitive information from their European competitors.
The leaked document reveals, however, that they have been unable to find
evidence of any systematic use of Echelon for industrial espionage.
In a veiled warning to the UK, the only EU Echelon member, the leaked
document warns that any state involved in an electronic eavesdropping
system used to spy on European citizens and companies would be in breach
of both the European convention on human rights and EU law.
They described as "unsatisfactory and regrettable" the lack of democratic
supervision of secret services in several member states, and urged the EU
to make sure that encryption software was easily available to individuals
and businesses to allow them to protect their communications.
Neil MacCormick, the Scottish nationalist vice-chairman of the Echelon
parliamentary committee, said: "People should treat their emails like
seaside postcards; that is to say put anything you like on them but don't
be surprised if someone else reads them."
Some independent privacy campaigners said the MEPs have not got far
enough. They urged the committee to investigate new eavesdropping systems
already in operation to address Echelon's shortcomings. They also warned
that commercially available encryption software would be easily overcome
by intelligence services.
The European parliament document is being studied by officials in the
Foreign Office and the Home Office.
"National security versus human rights is a difficult subject", a
Whitehall source familiar with the report said yesterday.
Whitehall denies Echelon is involved in industrial espionage but admits
that its aims include "countering industrial espionage by others".
======================
To Learn more about Echelon please visit 
http://www.echelonwatch.org/

 Privacy warning across Europe
Watch out! You're on the way to turning us all into a bunch of paranoiacs.
--
Xakero

 -
In the US, we would say paranoids.
Rick

 In the US, we would say paranoids.
How does that saying go? If you imagine that someone is following you, you're
paranoid--but if someone _is_ following you, you're perceptive.
Ciao,
Ron
USA


wrote:

I like the other one (Mary's? May well be...) <<Paranoia is knowing
exactly what is going on>>.
-- 
Isa
Work like you don't need money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no one's watching
http://web.tiscalinet.it/alfabeto_auschwitz/

 Ron
Ciao, ciccio.

exactly what is going on>>.
rotfl.
I think that there's a lot of coherent self-defence, in that.

 I think that there's a lot of coherent self-defence, in that.
Rowr!
[= rolling on with Ron]

 I think that there's a lot of coherent self-defence, in that.
Paolo, just for your information, this use of both "coherent" and "self-defense"
is rather odd in this context. If you had said "sensible self-preservation" it
would have conveyed the idea I think you intended.
"Coherent" does convey the meaning of "making sense" or "understandable" but it
usually refers to an argument or presentation. "Self-defense" does mean
"protecting oneself" but it usually refers to an incident or instance. In sum,
the words are not incorrect but they do not sound right in this context to the
ears of an English native-speaker (at least this native-speaker). I'm sure you
know how it is--it's hard to explain, but it just doesn't sound right.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 exactly what is going on>
Lol, brilliant! And terribly true, by the way...

know how it is--it's hard to explain, but it just doesn't sound right.
Sorry, I'm absolutely not able to avoid this kind of mistakes! (moan!)
p.b.
--
Mailing List sulle arti figurative
http://arti.figurative.listbot.com/
_________________________

 is rather odd in this context.
Ron, just for your information, Paolo Beneforti speaks English like a
Spanish cow.


A related expression is "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean no-one's out
to get you."
Rick

 out to get you."
Yes, that's the classic expression. The idiom "out to get you" probably leaves a
few non-native speakers scratching their heads. How would one translate that,
"andare a cacciarti?"
Ciao,
Ron
USA


How intriguing.  I find myself trying to imagine just how a Spanish cow
would speak English.
-- 
Dale Erwin
http://home.earthlink.net/~erwintech


How intriguing.  I find myself trying to imagine just how a Spanish cow
would speak English... or Spanish for that matter.



Let me guess:  Someone's out to get you = Qualcuno cerca di farti male.
????



< I'm not a professional translator but methinks you hit the jackpot.
Yours
Sal

 would speak English.
Very badly, of course.



Either way, even people with paranoid delusions have enemies. :-)))
Loki
- with Echelon in the backyard, so to speak...
-- 
 

would speak English.
Of course, that's a false translation. Or a false etymology. Or
both... Or something.
You know, in Italian we have this idiom, "lui/lei parla [insert any
foreign language] come una vacca spagnola", which of course would be a
"Spanish cow". 
The thing is however, we loaned this saying from the French; it is now
known and used - in France, too - as "parler français comme une vache
espagnole" but alas, that's a corrupted version: it originally goes as
"Parler français comme un vache espagnol". 
There is not a little difference between "une vache" (a cow) and "un
vache", who is a native of the Basque Country, the French enclave in
Spain, or to quote Merriam Webster on line, <<a member of a people
inhabiting the western Pyrenees on the Bay of Biscay>>. They are said
to speak French, well, like people who've been born and raised in
Spain :-)
Also, from 
http://www.france3.fr/emissions/livre/livre694.html
<<Parler français comme une vache espagnole est plus délicat, parce
qu’il s’agirait d’une déformation de Parler français comme un Basque
espagnol. Allons, tout cela remonte au XVIIe siècle, et depuis, tant
de choses ont changé !>>
We loaned the saying and the wrong translation, of course. Because
it's funnier, if nonsensical.


 "Spanish cow".
Mi hai tolto le parole di bocca e le castagne dal fuoco. Brava zia Lella.
Bacino.
P.S. Vieni al trekking-raduno di Icl, magari con mamma Peltio?

P.S. Vieni al trekking-raduno di Icl, magari con mamma Peltio?
Con Peltio andrei ovunque, ma se alla fine del viaggio ci sei tu,
well, maybe I'll think again...?


 well, maybe I'll think again...?
Cogita, cogita, ergo eris.

 Let me guess:  Someone's out to get you = Qualcuno cerca di farti male.
I think your translation conveyed the meaning pretty accurately,
yet my impression is that the phrase "someone's out to get you"
is indeed idiomatic, so I'd be inclined to resort to a more colloquial
level of speech, thus translating 'qualcuno vuole giocarti un brutto
tiro' or 'qualcuno vuole fartela pagare'.
Matteo (cybernaughty)

 "andare a cacciarti?"
Suggerirei: "qualcuno ce l'ha (proprio) con te"
ciao
"Fay Ce Que Vouldras"
http://panurgo13.supereva.it
panurgo13

 In the US,
we would say paranoids.
I haven't got around to learning US English yet,
I'm afraid. I might try to
learn Siamese instead.
www.webster.com
 does
list "paranoiac", though, but I don't give a hoot.
--
Xakero
--------------------------------
Inviato via 
http://usenet.iol.it
 

 list "paranoiac", though, but I don't give a hoot.
I see they list both paranoid and paranoiac as nouns, so we should all
be happy.

 Con Peltio andrei ovunque,
purr...
purrrrrrrrrrrrr...
miao,
Peltio

 it's funnier, if nonsensical.
Seems I was right to be intrigued.  That is indeed a very interesting
story.  I know exactly the meaning now.  It is the way hispanics born
in the US speak Spanish.  In some circles, it is not even reffered to
as Spanish, but as "Chicano" which is also how they refer to themselves.
By the way, in this context, you should have used "borrowed" instead of
"loaned."  You could "loan" (actually the proper verb used to be "lend"
and "loan" was a noun but through improper usage "loan" has now become
a verb) a word from your language to another, but you would "borrow"
a word from another language to your own.  I hope that's a clear 
statement.  Just in case, let me rephrase it:  To "loan" is to give to
someone else, while to "borrow" is to receive from someone else.


 list "paranoiac", though, but I don't give a hoot.
I live in the US, and I would never say "a bunch of paranoids."
To my ear, "paranoid" sounds like an adjective, while "paranoiac"
sounds more like a noun.  I might say, "he is paranoid" and in this
instance "paranoid" is an adjective, but I would not say, "he is a
paranoid."
But then, it has been many years since I studied English in school.
For all I know, it has changed.  More's the pity.





... and "paranoic", and I still don't give a
hoot.


statement.
Crystal Dale, and I'm sorry.
Cheers,


 used by anyone else?
Instead of "in some circles" I should have said "in some geographic
areas."  The word "chicano" started in California and is in widespread
use there.  It would not be considered 'non-PC' even if used by someone
outside the ethnic group, and in fact is used even by news commentators.
The word is now being used in other geographic areas where the hispanic
community is significant, though not to the extent it is used in California.
The people who dislike hearing it are those hispanics born outside the
US, recently arrived here, and they don't like hearing ANYONE say it.  It
seems to offend their pride.  As they come to learn that it is really
like another language, they are glad to call it "Chicano" instead of
Spanish.


 outside the ethnic group, and in fact is used even by news commentators.
"Chicano" has been out of style here in California for years, although some
people still use it. The current common designation is "Hispanic." For a while
people were saying "La Raza" but let's hope that practice disappears.
Ciao,
Ron
USA