Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: "Have you arrived?" o "Did you arrive?"

1) Did you arrive? How was your flight?
2) Have you arrived? How had been your flight?
Which is the most correct?
-- 
Valjean



 
Have you arrived? How was your flight.
-- 
Joey from NY

 Have you arrived? How was your flight.
Mettetevi d'accordo.
Cmq io sono d'accordo con "Sandrin".
Perché siccome dico "Did you make it?" allora dico anche "Did you arrive?"
How was your flight? How was dinner (on board)?.
& so on and on and on...
ciao
 >Giovanni

):

In my mind, the first question was made during a phone call. You wouldn't ask 
it in person, since, in person you would know if the person being asked had 
arrived.
Of course, it depends entirely on the surrounding -- or preceding -- 
conversation, too.
- "We had a lot of trouble at the airport and the flight was delayed, but we 
finally made it."
- "Did you arrive on time?"
as opposed to
- "We had a lot of trouble at the airport and the flight was delayed."
- "Have you arrived at the hotel yet?"
-- 
Joey from NY

 - "Have you arrived at the hotel yet?"
there's no "yet" in the proposed question.

 there's no "yet" in the proposed question.
No, but in my example -- which is only that, and only for that scenario, even 
without "yet" If the event is in the present or recent past, I would expect 
"have you arrived at the hotel?"
The original examples:
1) Did you arrive? How was your flight?
2) Have you arrived? How had been your flight?
I'm trying to understand when one would ask "Did you arrive? How was your 
flight?"
I"m not saying that "did you arrive" is wrong, syntactically. It just doesn't 
make sense with "How was your flight" following it.
You can say it however you want.
-- 
Joey from NY

 
Okay, to back up and answer your question, No. 1 is more correct (not "most" 
correct.)
But let me ask you, Jan, how would you ask this question in Italian?
-- 
Joey from NY

 But let me ask you, Jan, how would you ask this question in Italian?
The situation is the following:
a friend of mine just left in the morning to come back to his country, 
then i texted him in order to know whether he has arrived or not.
So in italian I would ask:
"Sei arrivato? Com'è andato il volo?"

 make sense with "How was your flight" following it.
maybe "how has your flight been?", since the flight occured before the 
arrival; a little pretentious perhaps.
ciao
 >Giovanni

 "Sei arrivato? Com'è andato il volo?"
Did you arrive?
(you don't know the answer yet)
How was your flight?
ciao
 >Giovanni

 i see your point.
The second is totally non-standard. It would almost never occur as "Have you 
arrived? How had been your flight?" It's just not natural. "How was your 
flight" is almost required there.
"How had been your flight?" (which, by the way, is normally expressed as "How 
had your flight been?") would require some reference to an event or situation 
that occurred at an earlier point in time. Such as
"I heard there was a disturbance on your trip home. How had your flight been 
(up until then)?"
-- 
Joey from NY

 "Sei arrivato? Com'è andato il volo?"
"Did you arrive? How was the flight?"
I would still ask "Have you arrived (yet)?" since you don't know the status 
of his trip. It might not have happened or it might have just happened. The 
immediacy of the situation almost begs for the present perfect.
If you think that sounds too formal, you could ask "Did you get home (yet)?"
-- 
Joey from NY

 If you think that sounds too formal, you could ask "Did you get home (yet)?"
what's the difference? you don't know it that has occured either, do you?

):

What I'm trying to get across is that the simple past has no inherent 
connection to the present.
The present perfect is more closely connected to an event in the past that 
may continue to the present (and/or that has just happened) and because of 
the implied context of the original inquiry, the arrival has either not 
happened yet, is imminent or has just happened, and that's what the person 
asking is trying to determine.
If the person who was being asked the question had already indicated some 
elements or events of the trip and had not yet stated whether or not he/she 
arrived, then "Did you arrive?" would be okay (but better would be "Had you 
arrived [at that point in the story]?")
Maybe I'm just not successful in demonstrating the subtleties between the 
simple past and the present perfect. Sorry.
End of discussion.
-- 
Joey from NY

 Which is the most correct?
The convoluted discussions on this topic may do more to confuse than 
enlighten learners of English. Here is my attempt to supply a simple answer.
It's true, as Joey says, that "have you arrived?" is a phrase that 
you're more likely to use if you are speaking to someone currently in 
transit (if that indeed is what he was saying), but it still would not 
be odd for someone to ask "did you arrive?" in that situation.
It would be natural to say "did you arrive?" when talking about a trip 
that happened in the past, but very odd (and confusing) to ask "have you 
arrived?" in that context, because you would be asking about the current 
status of the person queried.
I'd say that you can use either without worry when talking about a 
current trip. You cannot say "how had been your flight?" You should say, 
instead, "how was your flight?"

 simple past and the present perfect. Sorry.
no no...now i see.

 imminent, in order for you to be able to answer the phone.
Cell phone? Mobile? Cellulare? Telefonino?
-- 
Joey from NY

 imminent, in order for you to be able to answer the phone.
Further: if the call was made to the recipient's home phone, why would you 
ask if he had arrived, since you're talking to him at his home?
-- 
Joey from NY

 Cell phone? Mobile? Cellulare? Telefonino?
any. you are simply not available while on a plane. up to now.

 ask if he had arrived, since you're talking to him at his home?
i don't know but it's something you say anyway. think about it.