Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Grammatica. Will o shall?

Il futuro per me è sempre stato un casino.
Se non ho capito male, nel:
- future continuos
- future perfect
- future perfect continuos
si usa shall per le prime persone e will nelle altre.
A meno di non usare il presente, nel futuro
si usa shall per le prime persone e will nelle altre
nel futuro inevitabile e viceversa nel futuro desiderato.
Ho fatto un esercizio di completamento in questo modo:
- By noon tomorrow we shall have traveled more than a thousand miles.
- I can't write a criticism of the book tomorrow. I shall not have
    read it all.
- When the time comes for me to retire I shall have risen to a high
position in the firm.
Nelle soluzioni però ho trovato will al posto di shall.
Perché ho sbagliato? Non capisco.

Perché ho sbagliato? Non capisco.
Seconda me, hai sbagliato!
- By noon tomorrow we'll have travelled (doppia 'l' per GB, singulare
per Americano) more than a thousand miles.
- I can't write a criticism of the book tomorrow. I wont have
    read it all (by then).
- When the time comes for me to retire(,) I'll have risen to a high
position in the firm.
"shall" si usa solo quando vuoi scrivere molto formale. Altrimenti,
usa "will".
-- 
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DFM - 
http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

 usa "will".
Comunque ora ho capito, grazie.
http://tinyurl.com/9eefw
Si vede che ho una grammatica un po' vecchia.

 nel futuro inevitabile e viceversa nel futuro desiderato.
(e lo stesso con should/would)
Qualche decennio fa, forse. Adesso alcuni inglesi del sud-est
dell'Inghilterra parlano cosi'. Io uso shall cosi', ma non sempre.
Se usi sempre will, non sembrera' strano. A parte il fatto che
quando parli dovresti usare le contrazioni quasi sempre.
Comunque, shall e' opportuno nelle proposte:
Shall we dance?
Shall we go to the garden centre this weekend?
E nei contratti e cosi' via: The response to tender shall be printed
in a font no smaller than 12 points in size.
Io dico "I shall do so at once" e "I should very much like to see that"
ma usare will e would qui non sarebbe affatto strano. Anzi.

 nel futuro inevitabile e viceversa nel futuro desiderato.
Anche a me insegnarono cosi' ai tempi a scuola, ma ormai all'atto
pratico shall non usa mai, viene usato will anche per le prime persone.
L'utilizzo di shall viene in genere visto come un formalismo o uno
snobismo..
Ciao,
 Luigi

 usa "will".
Using the contraction 'I'll' doesn't really deal with the question , since 
'I'll' may mean either 'I will' or 'I shall' .
It's true , as DFM says , that mostly 'will' is used nowadays , that the 
distinction between futuro inevitabile and futuro desiderato has been lost , 
and that in most persons the use of 'shall' would sound very 
formal/old-fashioned ; BUT the use of 'shall' in the first persons is still 
quite common , and (given that one has not gone for the more informal , 
ambiguous and ever-more-frequent 'I'll' , 'we'll') has no more formality 
than 'will' . In Pinko's exercise , where presumably he has to choose 
between 'will' and 'shall' , 'will' is ok , but 'shall' is equally 
acceptable , and would be my choice in the first and last sentences - in the 
last particularly it would sound perfectly natural to me .
The problem with the middle sentence is that , especially after 'I can't 
write' , 'I shall not have read' sounds awkward - but so does 'I will not 
have read' - you expect the contraction , 'won't' (most likely here) or 
'shan't' . Whilst in general 'won't' is probably commoner now , if you ask 
someone ,'Can you get me the stuff tomorrow ?' there are still a lot of 
people who are just as likely to answer 'I shan't be able to go tomorrow , 
but ...'  as 'I won't' etc.' , without intending any greater formality .
All this from the viewpoint of a Brit .
Mike 


If it's really worrying you, use "will" in all cases.
In Australia (and probably America) almost no-one says "shall" ever.
R.

'I'll' may mean either 'I will' or 'I shall' .
That is something I didn't know. I would always interpret "I'll" as "I
will". Perhaps 



http://tinyurl.com/9eefw
"So when giving information about the future and making predictions,
we can use either 'shall' or 'will' with the 'I' and 'we' forms.
So we can say either, 'I shall be ready at 8 o'clock' or 'I will be
ready at 8 o'clock'. In both cases the contracted form is 'I'll'.
We would normally use 'will' with 'you', 'he', 'she', 'it' and
'they'."
I didn't know that! I shall have to stop hanging around with Ozzies,
Saffies, Kiwis, and Yanks next time I am in England!


 used version of will. It sounds awwwfully English! ;o)
What about "Shall we dance?". Even Americans say that.

, 
gh...@mistral.co.uk
 says...

That has become almost idiomatic, like "Anyone for tennis?"
People don't say "Anyone for dancing?" or "Shall we play tennis?"
It's a slight affectation, though acceptable when inviting a lady
or gentleman to partner one on the floor.
R.
 

 or gentleman to partner one on the floor.
What's the shall-free version of "Shall we go to the cinema?"
It can't be "Will we go to the cinema?". "Let's go to the cinema!" is
more forceful. "How about going to the cinema?" or "What would
you say to going to the cinema?"


wrote:

"Do you want to go to the cinema?"
"Would you like to go to the cinema?"
"Should we go to the cinema?"
Again, I can't say I hear the 'shall' version much, even if it is
correct.


I'm going to use always 'will' then, except
for offers like 'Shall I ...?' and 'Shall we ... ?'
Thank you all

 People don't say "Anyone for dancing?" or "Shall we play tennis?"
I think "Shall we play tennis?" means something like
"Would you like to play tennis with me?",
while "Anyone for tennis?" somethimg like
"There's somebody here who would like playing tennis with me?"
So I can't ask "anyone for dancing?" because no girl will take
the initiative to dance with me. I have to ask to a specific girl.
On the other hand i can say "Anyone for tennis?" becase i don't
care who is going to play with me.

care who is going to play with me.
Well, you could say "Anyone for a shag?" if you are not fussy.
(scherzo io, non dire cosě mai!)


 (scherzo io, non dire cosě mai!)
It's not too bad, but in this way it seems you
don't care who you're going to fuck with. That's
true, but you should show yourself intersted in
the inner self of the girls and not only in their
bottom.
So, for example:
Your friend: Ann, this is DDT, a nice guy.
You ( to Ann): Hi Ann, I'm DDT, a nice guy.
                Good shoes! Wanna fuck?  :-)
This is a good one, for you've asked a specific girl
and she will be glad about your interest in her.

                Good shoes! Wanna fuck?  :-)
Ha! Yes, I have heard simillar.
BTW, to say 'good' shoes means about the quality of them, but you
probably meant 'nice', which means the style.
(yeah, yeah, I know we use 'nice' for everything!)


 (yeah, yeah, I know we use 'nice' for everything!)
Yes, I've had noticed my error.
"swank shoes" if they are expensive and really good.
Can i say good-looking shoes or beautiful shoes?
However "nice" is better. Thanks.

 Yes, I've had noticed my error.
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I noticed my error.
Ufff! :-(



Beautiful shoes works well. Afterall, you want to associate a
'beautiful' comment with the girl, don't you!




That's not a bad mistake. You should see/hear some of my Italian ones!


 That's not a bad mistake. You should see/hear some of my Italian ones!
New Murphy's law:
You won't notice your own errors until you have't pressed
your 'send' button.

 You won't notice your own errors until you have't pressed
                                             ^^^^^^^^
haven't
sorry.  :-(



:o)
I read it correctly, even if you wrote it wrong.
