Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Present Perfect and experience

Ho fatto un esercizio con un insegnante madrelingua di NY. Tra le varie
proposizioni da completare ho trovato questa:
1) I first __________ here when I was a child.
Dal momento che nella proposizione si parla di una esperienza personale
ho pensato che si dovesse usare il present perfect, sicchè ho scritto:
1') I first have came here when I was a child.
Il mio insegnante mi ha corretto dicendomi che la forma corretta è:
1'') I first came here when I was a child.
Inoltre mi ha detto che se proprio volevo usare il present perfect avrei
dovuto modificare l'ordine sintattico dando una sfumatura molto più
british:
1''') I've first came here when I was a child.
Tuttavia il mio teacher mi ha fatto presente di non essere proprio
sicuro riguardo la correttezza quest'ultima frase.
Che ne pensate?
Grazie
---------
Francesco
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 Che ne pensate?
<non-native Eng speaker>
- Il past participle di "to come" è "come".
- Ultimamente ho fatto molto l'orecchio all'AmEng, ma direi che "I first 
came here" è d'obbligo.
- Non so se "I have first come here when I was a child" sia corretto. 
Ripeto che non lo so, ma forse la tua insegnante è disposta a 
considerare British (in BritEng il present perfect è più usato, è vero) 
una frase che, altrimenti, considererebbe errata. I'd be interested to 
know what British English speakers think.
Ciao, FB

 - Non so se "I have first come here when I was a child" sia corretto.
Uhm... direi di no.
L'azione è contestualizzata in un momento ben definito del passato (when I 
was a child), e percio', per quanto ne so io, ci va obbligatoriamente il 
simple past.
Tschüss,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
--
"People say sometimes that Beauty is only superficial. That may be so. But 
at least it is not as superficial as Thought is. To me, Beauty is the wonder 
of wonders. It is only shallow people who do not judge by appearances. The 
true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible." (Oscar Wilde, 
The Picture of Dorian Gray) 

 simple past.
I agree with the Potter.  I am not sure about the use of the pres.
perf. as it relates to a "personal experience" but I'd say that in this
case you should use the simple past since the action in question (came)
is a completed action.
By the way, as FB already pointed out, it's "have come" and not "have
came" .
bye
ari

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news:1147643525.1...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
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Yes , it's got to be simple past in BritEng too - 'first' locates the 
completed action unequivocally in the past . (It might be just possible to 
fabricate a context where the present perfect might be used when modified by 
'when I was a child' , but I can't think of one where it could be used 
modified by 'first' meaning 'for the first time of a completed series') .
You would use the present perfect in a sentence like :
 'I have come here often since I was a child'
or  :
 'I have come here often : firstly as a child with my parents , then as a 
student etc.'
Mike

 student etc.'
About the only way I can think of to use the present perfect to talk
about your first time doing something is a case like "This is the first
time I've been to a slaughterhouse"