Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Re: doppio apostrofo

 
Normale. Leggermente colloquiale.
Cosa c'entra icli?
-- 
Mary

 
AmEng Ketzl here.
Colloquialissimissimo, ma comune nella lingua parlata. Se io scrivessi 
una lettera, anche a un amico, scriverei "I would've thought..." Se 
volessi essere piu' formale: "I would have thought..." ma questo e' 
ovvio.
Scrivendo dialogo fra due, forse scriverei "I'd've thought..." perche' si 
parla cosi' nel dialogo informale.
-- 
I am Joey's Cat
Un-not my address, too, if you wanna reply.

 "I'd've thought it'd be difficult to walk ...."
E' straordinaria la compattezza dell'inglese. Sicuramente non lo
*scriverei*, sta proprio male a mio parere.
Ciao, FB
-- 
Mrs. Palmer, in her way, was equally angry. 'She was determined to drop his
acquaintance immediately, and she was very thankful that she had never been
acquainted with him at all'.

 Sicuramente non lo *scriverei*, sta proprio male a mio parere.
Sì, concordo. E' solo una trascrizione della lingua parlata, piuttosto che un
modo per scrivere informalmente. Sarebbe come scrivere "whaddyamean". Lo puoi
fare, ma ha un significato preciso che non è la semplice informalità.
-- 
Giovanni Bajo



Niente, in effetti, ma ero là da tempo, qui sono da poco, 
non è una spiegazione, d'accordo.
Aggiungo che la frase l'ha scritta un inglese.
Come si pronuncia? la 'd' seguita dalla 'v' è difficile da 
articolare (ci vuole allenamento)
e poi "itdbe" come si fa?
 
-- 
oggi no, domani sì

 e poi "itdbe" come si fa?
Anche qui devi inserire una schwa:
itud be
-- 
Mary

 e poi "itdbe" come si fa?
Aggiungo a quanto detto da Mary che, spero di non dire una sciocchezza o
un'ovvietà, la "d" non suona come la "d" di "dull", ma viene unita alla
"b".


 e poi "itdbe" come si fa?
I'd've = aid&v (&=schwa)
it'd be = it&dbi (no plosive sound on the "t"; pronounce almost like:
id&dbi ("i" italiana)


 
Non avrei potuto spiegarlo meglio, Mary! :)


 (non ci ho provato punto, essendo piuttosto tòrpido)
Direi che è piuttosto normale nella lingua parlata, ben più di * I would 
have thought * ma che non si usa scriverlo, come in genere non si usano 
nella lingua scritta, tranne particolari esigenze espressive, le 
abbreviazioni.
H.

 id&dbi ("i" italiana)
Don't you mean no plosive sound on the "d". Do you, do you?
Bye, FB
-- 
L'importante è che risplenda tu, sola primadonna e immarcescibile leggenda
del tuo pianerottolo.
Lucangel

 
Well, yes, there's no plosive on the "d" either
But actually I didn't want to tell you, but the "d" doesn't assimilate 
into the "b".. it's distinct. "it&dbi" is the best transliteration I can 
come up with. Or maybe "it&d bi", as Mary described it.


 come up with. Or maybe "it&d bi", as Mary described it.
I don't mean "it&bbi". "It&d bi" is fine, but the "d" of "it&d" (as long as
it's followed by "bi") is not, as far as I know and hear, the "d" you hear
in "dull" or "dance". Right? Wrong? (curious face)
If you don't understand, I'll record my wonderful voice ("hughgrantish"
face) so that you can say whether I'm right or wrong. (I'mwrong!-I'mwrong!
face)
Bye, FB


 But actually I didn't want to tell you
You didn't? You may contradict me once in a while. I can't be right evvvery
time, can I.


 face)
My. All these faces...
I believe you are right, there, too. Although I don't necessarily 
perceive *much* difference between the "d" of "dull" and that of "it'd 
be", I do agree there is *some* difference. I believe it's because the 
latter is a post-position, while the former is not.
I mentioned this a long time ago in a different context: the word 
"water", for example, almost never has a true "t" sound. As a post-
position "t" (wat-er) even with the vowel following it, it becomes a "d" 
(wad'r).
Also "little" is not "li-t&l" but "lit-&l", where the "t" is almost a 
"d", or at least pronounced without any hit of plosive sound.
The coming together of all these voiced consonants makes a muddle, I 
would say.
Remember, too, that I'm AmEng Ketzl, and I'm not trying to enunciate or 
make a presentation to a group of linguists or professors. I'm the guy in 
the movies talking about his partner, his little partner, who he'd've 
giv'n'z life for. (Or, in BrEng: For whom he would have given his life. 
:)
But even if I were giving a presentation, I would never say "wat-er", 
with the "t" sound of "terminate", for example.


 
You forgot the question mark. (.....time, can I?)


 You forgot the question mark. (.....time, can I?)
I sometimes don't do it. When the question tag is a real question (when an
answer is expected) I use it; when the question is rhetorical I may not do
it. Do you think I should always do?


 
Heck, I was just pulling your leg... :)
(Because you were bragging about being right most of the time.)
No, in the case of your phrase, it's okay without it. As you put it, 
you're not expecting an answer (except from a wise guy like me.)


 with the "t" sound of "terminate", for example.
E fai bene. Non credo che sarebbe standard in inglese ammeregano.
Ciao, FB
-- 
Se dico "siedi!" manca l'oggetto.
Siedo chi? Lei o me?
(da it.cultura.linguistica.italiano)

 Heck, I was just pulling your leg... :)
I'm almost two metres tall, you don't want to do it, li'l cat!
Bye, FB
-- 
"Gli americani sono ignoranti per loro stessa natura"
that is "The Americans are naturally ignorant"
(Paolo Bonardi on it.cultura.linguistica)

 I'm almost two metres tall, you don't want to do it, li'l cat!
 
But cats are faaast!
Ayway, your pronunciation is good on almost all those words.
The third "partner" (the 2nd American) sounded like "parner." There 
*should be* a "d" sound in there, even a very small hint, for that casual 
pronunciation.
"I'd've thought" was very good for an English pronunciation. I just want 
to point out the difference in the word "thought": The AmEng vowel sound 
is lower, further back than the English. Hard for me to transcribe. I 
know you know the sound of British open "o".
Same with the sound of "a" in "water" (which you pronounced well in 
both.)


Here's a little something to make note of.
I have been working on today's crossword puzzle and got it all finished 
except for one word. The clue is "weakly pronounced consonant, in 
linguistics" and I had all but one letter: L _ N I S. I had never heard 
of any word like that, so I looked it up.
Lenis (adj.) produced with an articulation that is lax in relation to 
another speech sound. Ex.: \t\ in "gutter" is lenis; \t\ in toe is 
fortis.
I daresay the "t" in "water" could be considered lenis; the first "t" of 
"terminate" is fortis.


 is lower, further back than the English.
I've heard it. It's very open.
Bye, FB
-- 
Non devi uccidere la zecca ma solo impedirle di respirare.
(da it.discussioni.animali.cani)

 both d's".
Yes, I concur.
I cave.
I concede.
I c'n see dat you're right. :)
(I concede that you're right.)


 (I concede that you're right.)
What did I tell you? I'm alllways rright!


 E' straordinaria la compattezza dell'inglese.
Mica vero. In questo caso non è affatto straordinaria:
"I'dve" ==> "Avrei"


 
Si', ma "avrei" e' sempre "avrei"; "I'd've" viene da "I would have". E' 
cio' che vuol dire ADPUF.


 
I apologize; I should have said "I *think* that's what ADPUF meant." I'm 
not a mind-reader.


 not a mind-reader.
But I said that. I wondered at how English can be concise, but actually
"I'd've" is "avrei", which is one letter longer, with no apostrophes.
Bye, FB


 
OIC. I guess you were almost contradicting yourself. Whatever the case, I 
didn't mean to put words in anyone's mouth. Maybe a "lingua di gatto" but 
not words. :)


 *scriverei*, sta proprio male a mio parere.
But it's a lovely word. I couldn't've invented a better one myself. 
-- 
              O      __
      ___   /\     / / O  
     /__ \   | \   /  |
    O  /  \ /   \./   |       Loki
        |________ |
 

 OIC. I guess you were almost contradicting yourself.
Yes. I do it. 


 Non avrei potuto spiegarlo meglio, Mary! :)
adesso quasi ci arrivo a pronunciarlo.
 
-- 
oggi no, domani sì

 "dull", ma viene unita alla "b".
adesso di nuovo non riesco più.


 ADPUF meant." I'm not a mind-reader.
No apologies.
Me myself I don't know what I meant.


 Me myself I don't know what I meant.
Oh, but *we* do! ;-) It was a valid question: how does one pronounce 
"I'd've", the answer to which is "aid&v" or "aiduv". And as for "it'd be" 
try "it&d bi" or "itud bi." You had it. Don't lost it again! :)


 Don't lost it again! 
 
Ketzl! Svegliati! "Don't *lose* it again."


 Ketzl! Svegliati! "Don't *lose* it again."
Don't scold yourself! :(
Sei molto preoccupato per il ritorno ormai prossimo del tuo "umano" (pun
intended) compagno, e ti capisco, con l'appartamento in quelle condizioni e
i resti di tutti i tuoi festini... Poi, vuoi mettere la vita da single?
(here "vuoi mettere..." means "nothing is better than...")
Oh my poor Ketzl, nothing is forever, you know.
(have you thought about a banana's peel on the balcony floor?) 
-- 
Maria Luisa C - 24/05/04 19.29.14, here.
(please, point out my English errors)

 
Grazie, Maria, si' sono preoccupato. Quel vigliacco di Joey non mi lascia 
ne' bere, ne' fumare, ne' "entertain" la piccola cucciola di next door. 
Non rimane molto tempo per pulire l'appartamento.
Perhaps a banana peel (no s-apostrophe) is a good idea, but we're only on 
the 8th floor (your seventh) and the last time I pushed him.. I mean... 
he fell ... it only knocked him out for a while.
Thanks for explaining the phrase "vuoi mettere"; I didn't know it before. 
Also, "ormai prossimo" is unfamiliar to me. Does it mean "soon"?
-- 
I am Joey's Cat and I will survive.


 but we're only on the 8th floor (your seventh)
I've recently found that out. In Britain, though, there's the "ground
floor", the "piano terra".


 Also, "ormai prossimo" is unfamiliar to me. Does it mean "soon"?
yep, "entro poco tempo" in other words.
-- 
Maria Luisa C - 24/05/04 20.31.29, here.
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