Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: aiuto con traduzione

What does it mean the expression "all across the goat"?. I found it in a
song I'm trying to traslate, but I couldn't find it on my dictionary.
Thanks
Erin

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

 wrote in message
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Grazie mille per avermelo fatto notare. Lo sapevo ma, come mi capita spesso,
scrivo di getto e non ci penso.
Il contesto:
All the places I have seen are all across the goat compared to Ireland.
Penso sia una specie di "peggiorativo" nel senso che l'Irlanda è il miglior
posto di tutti, ma vorrei sapere cosa esattamente indica quell'across the
goat.
Grazie
Erin

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 chiederò a degli irlandesi.
Don't worry. This morning I asked my English teacher the meaning of the
sentence but he told me he had never heard it before. Anyway he's going to
ask an Irish girl he knows and if he discovers the meaning I'll let you
know.
Erin
--
Tra il mio pollice e l'indice s'acquatta
chiatta la penna.
Scaverò con quella.
Seamus Heaney

 wrote in message
Ae%a6.25647$lV5.3...@twister1.tin.it...
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 Liffy there's no where else on earth but like this island.
It's questions like yours, Seamus, that give me sleepless nights until
I know the answer.
I downloaded the song from Napster and have it playing while I write
this.
I searched the web, found "The Chieftains WWW Site" on
http://www.escape.ca/~skinner/chieftains/chief.html
 and have now
emailed its author, 
ski...@escape.ca
, to ask if he can give me the
meaning of "all across the goat" in the contxt of this song.
As soon as I get the answer, I shall post it here. (Wouldn't want
others to have sleepless nights, too)
--
Xakero
Sapere aude!
 (Horace, Epistulae)
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/

 others to have sleepless nights, too)
Dear Xakero,
You are ever the thoughtful one. Indeed, should you receive an answer to the
query, please do post it, as one would be interested to know the answer as
well.
With thanks,
--
I remain, as always,
Bambi
dtb

 Here we are we've come to call the pipes the flutes the fiddles and
all...
Grazie per aver postato il testo, erin. Ho quel disco dei Chieftains, è
molto bello. Ci sono dentro anche i Rolling Stones :-)
Ma non avevo ancora pensato di andare a cercare i testi. Ora vado a vedere
se trovo The Rocky Road to Dublin!
--
Ciao
Anna

 others to have sleepless nights, too)
I haven't heard from skinner yet, but in the meantime I also asked
Disney, who used some of The Chieftains' music in a TV
documentary entitled IRISH IN AMERICA, and here is what they say:
QUOTE
The lyrics are saying that all the other places in the world are like a
goat's field compared to the beauty of the songwriter's Irish homeland.
Other cultures use similar expressions.  Australians say "beyond the
black stump," referring to the bush country where wild fires
occasionally rage. Americans refer to lower class housing and culture
as "the other side of the tracks," as to the poor neighborhoods
frequently found near the railroad tracks.
UNQUOTE
Now i'll be able to sleep again.


 occasionally rage. 
It's actually a reference to remoteness. There are several of phrases
referring to remoteness. If there is one thing Australia has, it is a
lot of remoteness.
out near the black stump, the other side of the black stump,
beyond the black stump,
back of Bourke,
out in the never never,
"black stump: That imaginary place which is about as farr as one can go.
For example, ' anywhere this side of the black stump' is everywhere,
'past the black stump, is beyond consideration, 'just this side of the
black stump' is a long way indeed." (How to write and speak better)
The bush fires seem to be anywhere this side of the black stump, rather
than beyond it. ;-))
cheers,
Loki
-- 

, lo...@asgard.invalid says...

I concur with Loki. Whatever occurs beyond the black stump is not worth considering.
Thus "He's the best damn sheep-dog this side of the black stump" means simply that
he is the best sheep-dog.
Raymot
Brisbane, Oz
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[

"black stump: That imaginary place which is about as far as one can go.
Ron, would that be Burma shave in the US?
-- 
Isa
Work like you don't need money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no one's watching
http://web.tiscalinet.it/alfabeto_auschwitz/

 Ron, would that be Burma shave in the US?
If you're fishing for an explanation of the old Burma Shave advertisements--
sorry, I can't say more than the obvious. That whole route 66 experience was
before my time.
Ciao,
Ron

sorry, I can't say more than the obvious. 
I thought I was "asking", not fishing for anything :-)...
I was just thinking, because Tom Waits uses "Burma shave" in his
homonymous song as a metaphor for a far-away place where dreams may
come true and the misfits and outlaws of this world may at least find
some form of acceptance if not peace, and wondered whether the
metaphor was just his own view/creation or it had a proverbial quality
to it. That's all.


 to it. That's all.
Cara Isa,
avevo intuito che ti stessi riferendo a Tom Waits, e ho cercato qualche
spiegazione ad un'ipotetica proverbiale Neverneverland di nome Burma Shave,
ma, per quello che ho potuto trovare,  Burma Shave rimane nella cultura
americana soprattutto una famosa serie di cartelli pubblicitari stradali per
l'omonima crema da barba, che evoca ricordi nostalgici di viaggi
automobilistici negli anni '60.
Armato di questa conoscenza e illuminato dall'accenno di Ron alla Route 66,
ho riletto la canzone e sono, ora, dell'opinione che TW usi Burma Shave come
metafora per la strada o il viaggio, non per un luogo remoto e favoloso da
raggiungere.
Umilmente
Giorgio

 raggiungere.
Anch'io ero subito andata a spulciare tra i miei rocklibri e, trovato l'Arcana
coi testi tradotti di zio Tom, ho trovato Burma shave tradotto come... ehm...
ve lo dico?
"Il posto delle sciocchezze". Non citerò per pietà l'autore di siffatta perla.
--
Ciao
Anna

 "Il posto delle sciocchezze". Non citerò per pietà l'autore di siffatta
perla.
Non c'è bisogno, bastava citare l'editore per avere un'idea della qualità
della traduzione.
Ciao
Giorgio

"Il posto delle sciocchezze". 
And so God help us all.


raggiungere.
Guarda, io non sono una cultrice di Tom Waits e quel che scrive mi
appare francamente incomprensibile la maggior parte delle volte-- a
parte lo slang, e' proprio la moltitudine di riferimenti alla cultura
della working class americana che, purtroppo per me, mi sono oscuri. A
questo aggiungi che le liriche di canzoni, esattamente come i versi
poetici ad un altro livello, suscitano in ognuno immagini ed emozioni
diverse... Ad ogni modo, BS e' certamente una canzone di viaggio,
immaginato prima che compiuto, ma sono proprio queste righe,
addirittura l'uso delle preposizioni di stato e moto a luogo, che mi
fanno pensare a Burma shave come ad un punto di arrivo, e non come al
percorso:  
[...]
I guess you'd say I'm on my way to 
burma shave 
[...]
and I'd rather take my chances out in 
burma shave 
[...]
just a nickel's worth of dreams and every wishbone that they saved 
lie swindled from them on the way to 
burma shave 
[...]
they say that dreams are growing wild just this side of 
burma shave.
Ciao,


 [...]
Cara Isa,
ci avevo fatto caso, ma il viaggio è appunto un luogo letterario e sono
perciò ancora incline a considerare Burma Shave una metonimia del tipo 'il
cartello pubblicitario per la strada che lo reca'.
Per il resto, è incontestabile che contino le suggestioni.
Ciao
Giorgio

perciò ancora incline ...
Se tu mi contraddici una terza volta, non ti rimarra' nessuna testa
sul collo per farlo una quarta!
:-DDD
HRH,


 Isa
Ah, ecco, adesso capisco che cos'è un Burma Shave. Burma Shave,  per una
rasatura profonda, al livello delle spalle ;-))))
Ehm, allora, io sottoscritto  qui dichiaro che Tom Waits  per Burma Shave
nell'omonima canzone intendeva un luogo e non un viaggio, e aggiungo che
questo luogo si trova probabilmente a ovest di Paperino. =;-)
Con osservanza
Giorgio

 percorso:
Forse, il piano stava bevendo.
Mi sembra che gli italiani usino la termine "umorismo ironico" per molti
tipi del umorismo. Ma in questo caso, una termine (forse inventato) più
adatta sarrebbe, come si dice in inglese, "umorismo assurdo."
Ciao,
Ron

 sul collo per farlo una quarta!
Cara Isabella,
Visto il tuo profondo interesse nel Burma Shave, oltre le
decapitazioni ;-), ti piacerebbero magari i seguenti siti:
http://www.nidlink.com/~dgookin/burma_shave/index.html
http://www.outwestnewspaper.com/burmashave.html
http://www.webcom.com/duane/bscontst.html
http://www.cwrl.utexas.edu/~mcnicholas/E309-
Spring98/assign2/Advert/burmshv.html
Ecco qui un esempio:
Special Seats
Reserved in Hades
For Whiskered Guys
Who Scratch
Their Ladies
Burma-Shave
(Con le mie scuse ai baffuti e barbuti del Regno, che si meritano
senz'altro un posto in cielo)


 se trovo The Rocky Road to Dublin!
I write you the liric of  The Rocky Road to Dublin, just in case you
couldn't find it. By the way it 's one of my favourite Irish songs.
Bye
Erin
The Rocky Road to Dublin
(Traditional Arr. Paddy Cecilly)
In  the merry month of June from me home I started,
Left the girls of Tuam so sad and broken hearted,
Saluted father dear, kissed me darling mother,
Drank a pint of beer, me grief and tears to smother,
Then off to reap the corn, leave where I was born,
Cut a stout black thorn to banish ghosts and goblins;
Bought a pair of brogues rattling o'er the bogs
And fright'ning all the dogs on the rocky road to Dublin.
One, two, three four, five, Hunt the Hare and turn her down the rocky
road and all the way to Dublin, Whack follol de rah !
In Mullingar that night I rested limbs so weary, Started by daylight
next morning blithe and early, Took a drop of pure to keep me heartfrom
sinking;
Thats a Paddy's cure whenever he's on drinking. See the lassies smile,
laughing
all the while At me curious style, 'twould set your heart a bubblin'
Asked me was I hired, wages I required, I was almost tired of the
rocky road to Dublin.
One, two, three four, five, Hunt the Hare and turn her down the rocky
road and all the way to Dublin, Whack follol de rah !
In Dublin next arrived, I thought it be a pity
To be soon deprived a view of that fine city.
So then I took a stroll, all among the quality;
Me bundle it was stole, all in a neat locality.
Something crossed me mind, when I looked behind,
No bundle could I find upon me stick a wobblin'
Enquiring for the rogue, they said me Connaught brogue
Wasn't much in vogue on the rocky road to Dublin.
One, two, three four, five, Hunt the Hare and turn her down the rocky
road and all the way to Dublin, Whack follol de rah !
From there I got away, me spirits never falling,
Landed on the quay, just as the ship was sailing.
The Captain at me roared, said that no room had he;
When I jumped aboard, a cabin found for Paddy.
Down among the pigs, played some hearty rigs,
Danced some hearty jigs, the water round me bubbling;
When off Holyhead wished meself was dead,
Or better for instead on the rocky road to Dublin.
One, two, three four, five, Hunt the Hare and turn her down the rocky
road and all the way to Dublin, Whack follol de rah !
Well the bouys of Liverpool, when we safely landed,
Called meself a fool, I could no longer stand it.
Blood began to boil, temper I was losing;
Poor old Erin's Isle they began abusing.
"Hurrah me soul" says I, me Shillelagh I let fly.
Some Galway boys were nigh and saw I was a hobble in,
With a load "hurray !" joined in the affray.
We quitely cleared the way for the rocky road to Dublin.
One, two, three four, five, Hunt the Hare and turn her down the rocky
road and all the way to Dublin, Whack fol all the Ra !

 So,       Slán agus beannacht leat!
I'm sorry but I can't translate it. I can hardly understand English, but
Gaelic is too much for me
Bye
Erin

 Gaelic is too much for me
You may want to check out here:
 
 
http://www.ireland-information.com/irishphrases.htm
M

 Left the girls of Tuam so sad and broken hearted,
Sigh-sigh... Sono commossa!
Grazie tantissime. Ora stampo, metto il disco, canto e sogno verdi terre.
--
Ciao
Anna