Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: changing pronunciation

Have any of you native speakers noticed a change in your own pronunciation
over recent years?
As a Londoner, I was always embarrassed to have to choose between the
clipped RP intervocalic t
and the cockney glottal stop in words such as 'better' and 'British'.
Now I hear myself opting for the American d in such words. Am I alone?
I don't think so as I also hear this pronunciation from the journalists on
Sky News (not however on the BBC).
In what other ways do you think American pronunciation or vocabulary is
influencing us on this side of the Atlantic?
I have noticed for example that my local druggist in Chelsea is no longer a
chemist's but a pharmacy. Has this change
affected only the capital or also the provinces? Actually I'm not sure if
this change is due to an American or a European
influence. Any ideas?
Chris Pain

 words. Am I alone?
Wow, clipped RP intervocalic t! Cool! I've always been interested in the science
of pronunciation and the categorization of sounds (phonemes, I believe they're
called?) but never studied it. Here I am, experimenting with saying "d" and "t"
while sitting at my keyboard. Damn, I'm having so much fun! Based on my rigorous
experimental analysis, I'd say that more air is expelled quickly with the "t."
Also, the "d" includes more vocalization and a lower pitch. I hear a difference
in my voice when I say "latter" or "ladder" and the "t" of my "better" sounds
similar to the "t" of my "latter." So, I would have to say that I, like other
Americans, say a form of "t" rather than "d," albeit lazy in quick expulsion of
air and contaminated by the vocalization of preceeding and following vowels (but
at a higher pitch than a "d").
Regarding your inquiry about whether you are alone, I can only hope that unless
you are wondering in a philosophical sense, that this is not a cry out to the
world expressing some creeping paranoia. You can bed things will ged bedder if
you relax, go to bet before your eyes ged any retter, and not worry about this
fat. (wink, wink)
Ciao,
Ron
USA
PS: In innocent curiosity, can you tell me whether the British spelling of
"preceding" has three "e's" or your attention to spelling is almost as bad as
mine?

 Chris Pain
One thing that may be influecing England as well as the other
english speaking countries is the music.  I'm an american, so I
don't know exactly what kind of music they listen to in other
countries, but it seems like american music is becomming more and
more popular around the world.  So that could have something to do
with it.
Dave
-- 
Come join the search for extraterrestrial intelligence!
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
For the world's funniest free jokes come to
http://www.twistedhumor.com/cgi-bin/affiliate/banner.cgi?1498
The DS-OS Operating System Programming page: 
http://dsos.cjb.net
Here you'll also find the source to a PS/2 mouse driver.

 Any ideas?
d per t a Chicago ha un'origine nella comunità tedesca.  C'erano molte
immigranti tedeschi che usavano i pronomi tedeschi "dieser" "dem."  usw.
eg.  "dose guys", "da Bulls" Qua diciamo "dees dems and doses." 
Recentemente la televisione pubblicitaria ha adottato questa pronuncia
come simbolo della classe lavoratore (gli amici di Peppone in senso 
sociale non politico).
Martin

 pronunciation of intervocalic t in Italian.
You are in Italy, I am in San Francisco. So, let me know.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 but if "ain't" didn't exist neither would pop music.

Now I hear myself opting for the American d in such words. Am I alone?
[ ... ]
I hope so. "Better" has a t sound in it.
Ciao, 
Raymot
[[[[[[[[[[[[



 Martin
But here we are talking about d for voiced th - dose for those and muddah
for mother.
This is also common in London where th is taboo. "This" thus becomes "dis"
or "vis" and mother becomes "muvvah".
Chris


Music but especially TV. In Britain 50%??? of the TV is American.
Chris


I think you'll find "preceeding" was written by toi and not by moi.
And my bedtime is my business.
But actually you are right. There is surely a difference between a relaxed
pronunciation of the tt of "latter" and the dd of "ladder" but it's ever so
slight.
Seeing as we are in Italy it may be interesting to compare the varying
pronunciation
of intervocalic t in Italian. Don't Romans pronounce andato as annado
or ido and mangiato as magnado even though they insist they are saying t.
Here in Sardinia the dialect form of andato is usually transcribed as andadu
or andau and in
Sassari andaddu.
The transformation of intervocalic t into d is after all probably one of the
most common changes
in human language.
Chris

, 
chri...@tiscalinet.it
 says...

I'm aware that there are many, many dialects of English.
For a foreign speaker, the best pronunciation is that which is
likely to be the easiest to understand to one's target audience.
Some people might understand you if you say /bEd@/ or /bE?@/,
but almost everyone would understand "better" better as /bEt@/.
Besides, imitating Americans just for the sake of it is a bad habit
and simply encourages them.
Raymot
=======
Brisb'n, 'Straya
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[