Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: gave e did al presente?!?!?!?!

uno sceneggiato televisivo
did you want to join us? (qui viene invitata una ragazza a cena e si
usa did per dire ti piacerebbe unirti a noi????)
poi un minuto dopo
A=    except I forgot to make a copy of the key
B= Jeremy could use my key
C= Of course I gave you a key  (gave??? non è past?? qua viene usato
come naturalmente..vi do una chiave-...non vi diedi , o vi ho dato una
chiave ma con un significato presente)

 chiave ma con un significato presente)
"Gave" è proprio al passato. Ti ho dato una chiave (ieri?), dunque dovresti 
avere adesso la chiave. 

"Could" non è al passato, ma invece il condizionale.
Could non è al passato, ma invece (al) condizionale
Ciao

 loro,
Pero' se ci pensi si usa anche in italiano. A me e' capitato diverse volte 
di sentire "tu volevi venire con noi?" che indica "avevi pensato di unirti a 
noi? (sottinteso, mentre stavamo prendendo accordi o mentre arrivavi qui, 
ecc), perche' se e' cosi' allora vieni che' ti sto invitando"  :)))
Proprio ieri l'ho usato in ufficio, andando a pranzo e col chiaro intento di 
invitare una collega, ho detto "pensavi di mangiare?" (non era scontato 
essendo venerdi' teoricamente mezza giornata). E' ovvio che intendessi "se 
hai pensato (passato, indica un qualunque momento della giornata prima del 
mio invito) di voler pranzare in ufficio e non a casa, ti va di andare 
insieme?"
Sono riuscita a spiegarmi?
ciao, Janis

 ciao, Janis
molto bene, è chiarissimo, è una sorta di domanda retorica.
anche con un minimo di ipocrisia infarcita chomskianamente,
pensavi di mangiare? eheh se lo dicessero a me, risponderei no grazie
ci sto pensando solo ora!

 ci sto pensando solo ora!
Non concordo. A mio parere non si tratta di una domanda retorica o 
addirittura di ipocrisia. Io ho l'impressione che dipenda dal grado di 
confidenza che hai con una persona. Non ho la confidenza per invitarti in 
maniera diretta (e quindi metterei in imbarazzo anche te con il mio invito) 
e quindi uso una frase piu' vaga, che ti lascia una scappatoia.
ciao, Janis 

 wrote in message
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«158 do (1): introduction
Do has three main uses.
1 auxiliary verb
The auxiliary do is used to form the questions and negatives of other verbs,
as well as emphatic and shortened forms. For details, see 159.
Did you remember to post my letters?
This doesn't taste very nice. I do like your earrings.
John eats too much. ~ He certainly does.
2 general-purpose verb
Do is also an ordinary (non-auxiliary) verb. It can refer to almost any kind
of activity, and is used when it is not necessary or not possible to be more
precise. For details, and the difference between do and make, see 160.
What are you doing? Don't just stand there. Do something.
I've finished the phone calls, and I'll do the letters tomorrow.
3 substitute verb
In British English, do can be used alone as a substitute for a main verb
after an auxiliary. For details, see 161.
Do you think Phil will come?~ He might do. (AmE He might.)
Do so/it/that can be used as a substitute expression when we want to avoid
repeating another verb and what follows. For details, see 162.
I need to take a rest, and I shall do so as soon as I can find time.
He told me to open the door. I did it as quietly as [ could.
4 combined forms
Auxiliary do and non-auxiliary do can occur together.
Do you do much gardening? How do you do?
The company didn't do very well last year.
159 do (2): auxiliary verb
The auxiliary verb do is followed by infinitives without to. It has several
uses.
1 questions
We use do to make questions with ordinary verbs, but not with other
auxiliary verbs (see 480).
Compare:
Do you like football? (NOT Like you football?)
Can you play football? (NOT Do you can play football?)
The auxiliary do can make questions with the ordinary verb do.
What do you do in the evenings?
do (3): general-purpose verb; do and make 160
2 negatives
We use do to make negative clauses with ordinary verbs (including the
ordinary verb do), but not with other auxiliary verbs (see 367).
I don't like football. (NOT I like not tfootball.)
Don't go. I don't do much in the evenings.
BUT I can't play football. (NOT I don't can play football.)
3 emphasis
We can use do in an affirmative clause for emphasis (see 184).
Do sit down. You do look nice today!
She thinks I don't love her, but I do love her.
I don't do much sport now, but I did play football when I was younger.
4 inversion
Do is used in some inversion (verb before subject) structures (see 302).
At no time did he lose his self-control.
5 ellipsis
In cases where an auxiliary is used instead of a whole verb phrase (see
181), do is common in affirmative clauses as well as questions and
negatives.
She doesn't like dancing, but I do. (= ... but I like dancing.)
You saw Alan, didn't you?
That meat smells funny. ~ Yes, it does, doesn't it?
Ann thinks there's something wrong with Bill, and so do I.
For do with he, see 90.
For weak pronunciations of do and does, see 616.
For do in short answers, see 517.
160 do (3): general-purpose verb; do and make
The general-purpose verb do has several uses, and can sometimes be confused
with make.
1 do for indefinite activities
We use do when we do not say exactly what activity we are talking about -
for example with words like thing, something, nothing, anything, what.
Then he did a very strange thing. (NOT Then he made a very strange thing.)
Do something!
I like doing nothing. (NOT ... making nothing)
What shall we do?
2 do for work
We use do when we talk about work and jobs.
I'm not going to do any work today. Could you do the shopping for me?
It's time to do the accounts. I wouldn't like to do your job.
I did (= studied) French and German at school.
Has Ben done his homework?
Could you do the ironing first, and then do the windows if you've got time?
do (4): substitute verb 161
3 do .. .ing
We use do in the informal structure do ... ing, to talk about activities
that take a certain time, or are repeated (for example jobs and hobbies).
There is usually a determiner (e.g. the, my, some, much) before the -ing
form.
During the holidays I'm going to do some walking and a lot of reading.
Let your fingers do the walking. (advertisement for telephone shopping)
Note that the verb after do cannot have an object in this structure.
I'm going to watch some Tv. (NOT I'm going to do some watching TV)
But do can be used with a compound noun that includes verb + object.
I want to do some bird-watching this weekend.
It's time I did some letter-writing.
4 make for constructing, creating etc
We often use make to talk about constructing, building, creating etc.
I've just made a cake. Let's make a plan.
My father and I once made a boat.
5 do instead of make
We sometimes use do in place of make, to sound casual about a creative
activity - as if we are not claiming to produce any very special results.
What shall we eat?~ Well, I could do an omelette.
6 common fixed expressions
do good, harm, business, one's best, a favour, sport, exercise, one's hair,
one's teeth, one's duty, 50 mph
make a journey, an offer, arrangements, a suggestion, a decision, an
attempt, an effort, an excuse, an exception, a mistake, a noise, a phone
call, money,
a profit, a fortune, love, peace, war, a bed, a fire, progress
Note that we say make a bed, but we often talk about doing the bed(s) as
part of housework.
Compare:
He's old enough to make his own bed now.
I'll start on the vegetables as soon as I've done the beds.
We use take, not make, in take a photo, and have, not make, in have an
(interesting) experience.
For information about sentence structures with make, see 335.
161 do (4): substitute verb
auxiliary verb + do
In British English (but not American), do can be used alone as a substitute
verb after an auxiliary verb.
Come and stay with us. ~ I may (do), if I have the time. (AmE I may, if ...
OR I may come, if ... )
He's supposed to have locked the safe.~ He has (done). (AmE He has. OR
He has locked it.)
I found myself thinking of her as I had never done before.
He didn't pass his exam, but he could have (done) if he'd tried harder.
He smokes more than he used to (do).»
(Swan, "Practical English", 158-161)
Joe from Massachusetts

 (Swan, "Practical English", 158-161)
Very informative, but I don't see how this answers Ndrocchietto's question: 
Do you want to join us? vs. Did you want to join us?
ciao, Janis 

 wrote in message
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Either one is possible, but it depends on the questioner's intent. The first
is a simple question. The second could imply that the questioner doesn't
really want the girl to join the group for dinner, but is merely being
polite by making an invitation that he fully expects to be declined.
I included the extract from Swan because some of the replies seem to
indicate a lack of knowledge of how do and did are used.
Joe from Massachusetts