Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: If I was...

Adesso è ufficiale: "If I was...I would...", pronunciato dal principe
William in un'intervista, trasmessa dalla CNN un attimo fa. Sprecati, tutti
questi soldi per la sua educazione.
Sto piangiendo...
-- 
Xakero
"I had a terrible education, I attended a school for emotionally disturbed
teachers." _ Woody Allen

 Sto piangiendo...
If I was there (and I don't know in what part of the globe you are), I
would try to comfort you. At any rate, I think he was trying to be
ordinary... It must be a problem for a prince to watch tv and know how the
real world is.
I'd be interested to hear how a young exponent of the royal family speaks;
the accent, I mean.
Bye, FB
-- 
Locked from the inside. That can only mean one thing, and I don't know what
it is.
(Murder by Death)


Ben due volte 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4026131.stm
 c'e' anche il video, 
oltre che al transcript.
A me pero' nei corsi di inglese in Inghilterra hanno detto che "if I was" si 
puo' dire... 

 case it would be correct.
It would? How?
-- 
Mary


Guarda il video dell'intervista 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4026131.stm
Che ne pensi dell'accento?



"If I was late for school (when I was, say, 16), I usually didn't even get
up". 
Bye, FB
-- 
In any case, if you say 'I gotta go' at an important job interview you're
contributing to being allowed just that privilege.
(Tony the ice man on it.cultura.linguistica.inglese)

 up".
When you were late for school, you wouldn't even get up? That would explain
your grammar.

questi soldi per la sua educazione.
Dunno Willy, but English tabloids said his brother was, ehr-- allegedly
"helped" a little when he was at school :)
-- 
Enrico C  /testing Pimmy/
Reply to: enrico /dot/ c /at\ people \dot\ it
--
FREENET By X-Privat - 
http://www.x-privat.org/infofreenet.php


I was told the same by an English teacher in an English course, still "if I
were" [where needed] sounds more correct to my ears.


 case it would be correct.
Are you *sure* of that? (I disagree, but I do consider myself somewhat of a
purist in this.)
"If I was late for school, I didn't realize it" would be okay.
"If I were late for school, I wouldn't get up" is okay.
"If I was late for school, I wouldn't get up" makes my ears curl.
-- 
This is my opinion of modern, colloquial, American English. 
If you feel the need to e-mail me, un-not my address first.

 "If I was late for school, I wouldn't get up" makes my ears curl.
I'm afraid I overlook something. What's wrong in the third sentence,
supposing it means "quando ero in ritardo per andare a scuola, di solito
non mi alzavo" (it's not a conditional clause)? I don't suppose it's what
Prince William meant, but I still have to watch the interview.
Bye, FB
-- 
"It sounds appalling!"
"Interesting and appalling. The others just sound appalling!"
(Cold Comfort Farm, the film)


I agree.
Joe from Massachusetts

Prince William meant, but I still have to watch the interview.
The royal lad says a "you know" every ten words!


 Bye, FB
If you mean "I wouldn't" in the sense of "I didn't regularly" then it's
okay, but the sentence sounds like the speaker doesn't know English all
that well. You are right, that it would depend on the context.
In that context, however, I would have said, "When I was late for school I
didn't get up."


 up". 
Allora non è un'ipotetica :-)
*when* I was...
Nebo

 Sto piangiendo...
Diciamo che ormai è entrato nell'uso talmente tanto da essere accettato 
in gran parte dei casi...un po' come da noi l'imperfetto sta 
soppiantando il congiuntivo (purtroppo):
- se sapevo che reagivi così, non te lo dicevo
invece di
- se avessi saputo che avresti reagito così, non te l'avrei detto
(If I knew you would have that reaction, i wouldn't have told you that)
Nebo

 Che ne pensi dell'accento?
Rather ordinary, as far as I can tell. I would have expected a more usual
accent than his granny's, of course: a sort of "young" RP with a few
peculiarities. In my opinion he purposely speaks like that: I mean, he must
have been surrounded by people who spoke very well. Tutta colpa della
televisione! Do native speakers get any hint of his being part of the royal
family in the way he speaks? Something people don't do?
Is it common to say such words as "throw" with a very distinct flap [1]?
I wouldn't want to be him. Of course, he's not the person I pity the most
in the world, but he looks tense to me. On one hand, it's a very good thing
that he can lead a semi-normal life; on the other hand, he must know he's
bound to give it up sooner or later.
I think the British monarchy, luckily enough, is going to change a lot.
[1] A sort of Italian monovibrated "r".
Bye, FB
-- 
"May I come with you to the station?"
"Please, do. I like to go off in style."


 The royal lad says a "you know" every ten words!
Basically, you're sort of right, you know.
Bye, FB
-- 
"Are you sure an embryo parson should have a plane?"
"Everyone should have a plane!"


 (If I knew you would have that reaction, i wouldn't have told you that)
Hai azzeccato la parte che non imbrocca nessuno, ma direi "If I had known"
("had I known").
Bye, FB
-- 
"It sounds appalling!"
"Interesting and appalling. The others just sound appalling!"


 puo' dire... 
be' "si puo' dire". Basta aprire la bocca e si puo' dire qualsiasi
cosa. Xak ha ragione. Ma non e' solamente la colpa del giovane
principe. Qui in GB c'e' una forza formidabile contra la buona
educazione -- sia nel senso italiano, sia nel senso inglese, tradotto
letterariamente.
Alan "Old Fart" Lothian
-- 
"The past resembles the future as water resembles water"  Ibn Khaldun
My .
mac.com
 address is a spam sink.
If you wish to email me, try atlothian at blueyonder dot co dot uk

 Basically, you're sort of right, you know.
You know... like... I mean... Pensavo che tutto questo fosse roba di un
altra generazione ma vedo che la nuova generazione l'ha ereditata.
-- 
Xakero
"The greatest thing in this world is not so much where we are, but in what
direction we are moving." _ Oliver Wendell Holmes

 would try to comfort you. 
Il fumetto "The born loser" di ieri mi ha consolato, perché l'ha fatto
giusto:
Brutus: "Another birthday, another year older! But just think if I were a
car... I'd be considered a classic and be eligible for special historic
plates!"
Gladys: "If you were a car, you would be an Edsel!"
Source: 
http://snipurl.com/artz
Quel "Edsel" ha, per caso, un significato diverso dalla marca di
un'automobile d'epoca? O forse è semplicemente un riferimento obliquo alla
età di Brutus (la produzione dell'Edsel iniziò nel 1957)?
-- 
Xakero
"Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated" _
Confucious

Nebo
-- 
Enrico C  /testing Pimmy/
Reply to: enrico /dot/ c /at\ people \dot\ it
--
GIGAMAIL By X-Privat - 
http://www.x-privat.org/gigamail.php

peculiarities.
As he says in the interview, he doesn't want to be noticed. He probably
just wants to sound "ordinry".


 ("had I known").
Ups, ecc'hai raggione >_<
Nebo

 -- 
Edsel Ford was the only son of Henry Ford. The "Edsel" was named after
him. The car was unique, but did not sell well, and was considered a
failure. The point of the joke is that Brutus considers himself an old
"classic", but Gladys considers him an old failure, as the Edsel was.
http://www.fiftiesweb.com/pop/edsel.htm
Joe from Massachusetts

 That's used a lot in fast, informal speech, but it's definitely colloquial.
I avoid it as often as possible, but I find it's not much less than
necessary sometimes. Of course, I never use it in writing.
Bye, FB
-- 
Conversation like television set on honeymoon: unnecessary.
(Murder by Death)

 necessary sometimes. Of course, I never use it in writing.
Nor do I (nor I do? I don't use it either?).
Nebo

Nebo ha scritto:

Nor do I.
Neither do I.
I don't either.
(But not "I don't, too.)
Don't be confused if you hear "so don't I" to mean "so do I"; in some
regions it's common, although inexplicable.
I love ice cream!
So don't I! (I do, too; So do I; Me, too!)



Sě, ma č brutto, e come dire da noi: se ero in te non lo facevo (e ci
arriveremo, tranquilli...arrghh)
Amleto, il danese (purista).

 didn't get up."
What makes my sentence not idiomatic?
Bye, FB
-- 
"The doctors found out that Bunbury could not live, that is what I mean—so
Bunbury died."
"He seems to have had great confidence in the opinion of his physicians."
("The Importance of Being Earnest", Oscar Wilde)

 What makes my sentence not idiomatic?
The use of "if" instead of "when", followed by "would", makes it sound
like a hypothetical clause, so the "was" sounds wrong.
Most native speakers would say something like "when I was late for
school I didn't bother getting up".
-- 
Mary

 Prince William meant, but I still have to watch the interview.
Ti posso fare una piccola correzoine?
"I still have to watch the interview" significa "sono ancora obbligato a
guardare l'intervista".
Dovevi direi "I haven't watched the interview yet".
-- 
Mary

 
http://www.fiftiesweb.com/pop/edsel.htm
Grazie. Cosě, capisco la battuta di Gladys.
-- 
Xakero
"Everyting should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler" _ Albert
Einstein

Mary Cassidy ha scritto:

FB Listen to Mary; she knows whereof she speaks.


 FB Listen to Mary; she knows whereof she speaks.
And I told you the same a couple of days ago, if in a way more tongue-in
cheek.

 she knows whereof she speaks.
Do you mean she didn't bother getting up when she was late for school? Do
turkeys go to school? Do they put up school plays for Christmas? Do they
sleep on a bed of chips? How on earth can you stuff them without fainting? 


 Bye, FB
LOL. I know nothing of Mary's habits when she was in school, but no,
turkeys do not go to school (although fish hang out in them) nor do they
(turkeys) sleep on a bed of chips (but fish are sometimes served on same),
and as for stuffing them (turkeys) it helps if they're dead first. That
way, if you faint, they don't notice.


 LOL. I know nothing of Mary's habits when she was in school, but no,
I think I know where Mary went to school.  :>)
http://www.uq.net.au/~zzdmcana/StTrinians/
Joe from Massachusetts

 
http://www.uq.net.au/~zzdmcana/StTrinians/
Very funny. I did go to a girls' school, though.
-- 
Mary

"Mary Cassidy" <ma...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:41A0A469...@invalid.invalid...

I went to a school which was, in effect, two separate schools - girls
on one side of the building, Church (RC) in the middle, and boys on
the other side of the building, all watched over by hawk-eyed nuns.
The two groups rarely met, but about one month before graduation, both
graduating classes were herded into the gymnasium, paired off, and
taught to dance so that we would be prepared for the "prom". Eight
years of total separation, then one day you are holding each other on
the dance floor, with the nuns watching every move. Cultural shock,
indeed!
Joe from Massachusetts

 That way, if you faint, they don't notice.
Un ricordo di quando ero molto piccolo: [la] mia mamma che 
ingozzava a forza un'oca piuttosto restia. 
Non ricordo che fine fece la povera bestia, penso che abbia 
contribuito alla mia crescita. 
Grazie, oca.
-- 
Today no, tomorrow yes.

 Amleto, il danese (purista).
Benvengano le semplificazioni nella lingua. Tutte le lingue cambiano
con il tempo, e' un processo inevitabile. Cio' che non andava bene
ieri puo andare bene oggi e cio' che non va bene oggi puo' andare bene
domani. Le lingue sono piene di inutili dettagli e formalismi. God
bless change!


But the original poster didn't ask "Is that change right or wrong?". He
asked whether that expression "si puň dire". In other words, how do
contemporary native English speakers react to it.  
I *think* the answer is to that question would be: yes you can use it, it's
very common indeed in informal speech, but avoid it in formal writing /
communication, because it sounds "sloppy" to quite a few people and might
therefore be frowned upon.  


 bless change!
Non sono daccordo, per me non ci capiremo più, la lingua è strumento
principe della trasmissione e creazione dell'intelligenza, semplificarlo
vuol dire distruggere questa e quella.
Nota tra l'altro che tutte le persone intelligenti hanno un eloqui complesso
e preciso, la matematica stessa è un eloqui complesso, preciso, definito,
lasciamo agli scaricatori di porto e a quelli con QI sotto 80 a parlare in
maniera scialba e vacua, ma non facciamo mai il panegirico
dell'abbruttimento.
Amleto.