Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Errori: un dubbietto

Cari amici,
_Mistake_ ed _error_ sono sinonimi si' o no? Si possono usare
indifferentemente o hanno campi di applicazione ed accezioni diverse?
Ciao
Isa
Work like you don't need money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no one's watching

Si,si'...anch'io lo voglio sapere !!!
Se non sbaglio ;-), mi hanno insegnato che sono differenti. Forse che
_error_ ha a che fare piu' che altro con errori materiali, mentre
_mistake_ con il concetto di "sbaglio", piu' astratto ? Boh!
Help! ;)
Ciao
Michele

 indifferentemente o hanno campi di applicazione ed accezioni diverse?
AFAIK they have the same meaning. I can only think of two differences:
- "mistake" is more colloquial, whereas "error" would be used in a very
formal text
- in statistics, "error" has a special meaning which is nothing to do
with mistakes. IIRC it's a kind of variability.
I'm sure Paolo LS, Alex, Elzevier, Gennaro, Ferdinando and Peltio will
enlighten the mathematically-challenged among us.
How come the maths buffs on the group are all men? Come to that, how come
all the men on the group are maths buffs?
Another strange cultural discrepancy.
Mary
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************* Fatal Error.  User Executed ***************

, 
m...@freemail.it
 says...

Yes, certainly. Bravo! (or Brava! - I'm always confused by
Italia names that don't end in a or o!)
This, however, does not negate the contents of my previous
letter. "Mistake" is always right.
Raymot
[[[[[[[[[[[[

Isa
They mean the same thing, Isa, but "mistake" is commoner.
I can't think of any circumstance where "error" could not
be replaced by "mistake", however there are many places
where "error" would sound strange or laughable, as in.
"Boy, was that ever an error!"
In fact, I can't ever remember having used "error" while
speaking 
Raymot
======
Brisbane, Australia
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[

 Italia names that don't end in a or o!)
Are  you sure about that? I can't think of any examples that would confirm
it.
A common expression, for example, is "error of judgement", which is an
abstract concept, surely.
There are a few idiomatic phrases where you couldn't replace "mistake"
with "error" , such as:
- by mistake
- sorry, my mistake
- you're making a big mistake
In any event, you won't go wrong if you translate "mistake" with
"sbaglio".
(I've noticed that a lot of Italians use "surely" as if it meant
certainly. Perhaps it does in the States, I'm not sure, but in the UK it
expresses doubt; it's more or less equivalent to IMHO.)
BTW, Michele is a man's name in Italian (= Michael). It's a woman's name
in French (as in "Michele, ma belle").
Mary
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Mary had a little lamb - another mistake at the IVF clinic!

 wrote:
" (I've noticed that a lot of Italians use "surely" as if it meant
" certainly. Perhaps it does in the States, I'm not sure, but in the UK it
" expresses doubt; it's more or less equivalent to IMHO.)
Really? I just checked 
www.m-w.com
 and I did not find that meaning.
It says "with assurance: confidently; without doubt: certainly"
I can think at somebody saying "Surely?" and meaning she does not believe
what the other person stated (it's the 2nd meaning in the Webster on line:
"INDEED, REALLY -- often used as an intensive <you surely don't believe
that>". Is this what you mean?
" BTW, Michele is a man's name in Italian (= Michael). It's a woman's name
" in French (as in "Michele, ma belle").
That's Michelle with two ells :-)
ciao, .mau.

that>". Is this what you mean?
Probably is. More often heard as "Surely you don't mean that."
Ciao, 
Raymot
[[[[[[[[[[[[

Mary
Raymot
[[[[[[[[[[[[


Yes, sorry - I noticed the typo right after hitting the SEND button.
Mary
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Give him an inch and he'll take an ell.

 Maurizio Codogno  replied:


Raymot ha scritto nel messaggio <37ded7e7@grissom>...

A few examples (with other words too) :
"I think you've made a MISTAKE. I'm not John, I'm his brother !"
"Don't BLAME me for what happened. It wasn't my FAULT."
"The telephone bill was sent to you in ERROR"
"There are some DEFECTS in the design of this computer"
"You've made the same MISTAKE six times in this homework"
"The children always get the BLAME for everything that goes wrong!"
(I'm sure you won't mind the capital letters, will you ?)
Bye Asoka xx'82
<< However fast you may run, you will never overreach the ball >>

in French (as in "Michele, ma belle").
And the woman's name in Italian is Michela.


(I'm sure you won't mind the capital letters, will you ?)
Of course not in this case. Thanks very much to you and everybody else for
all the precious help (as usual).
Baci


 wrote in a message


with mistakes. IIRC it's a kind of variability.
Also, what does IIRC stand for?
< deranged OT mode [ON] >
Not only in statistics, but in mathematics in general.
When you approximate a measurable quantity you have a number, xappr, which
differs from the exact value xact (!!!) by a quantity err (guess what,
that's the error...)
err=xact-xappr
of course you don't usually know xact, and so you don't really know the true
value of the error. But by the means provided by crafty magic you can end up
with an estimate of the maximum error pertaining to your process (a
measurement, a model, or whatever) which is usually (but by no means not
always [*] )  given as an absolute value.
xappr-maxerr < xact < xappr+maxerr
this means that your measure xappr falls in the range xact +/- maxerr
[*] the maximum  error may be asymmetrical, or given by specifying the
statistical distribution to which it belong, and that's not always a bell
shaped, or gaussan, curve. So that's statistics, indeed.
<deranged OT mode [x] >
<deranged OT mode [x] >
<deranged OT mode [x] >
<Warning: it is not possible to switch the deranged OT mode off. Try again?>
Peltio,
OT artist

all the precious help (as usual).
Hey, wait a sec. I've found this on The *American* Heritage Dictionary of
the English Language (3rd Ed.). I know, I know, I'm always late...
_______
SYNONYMS: error, mistake, oversight.
These nouns refer to what is not in accord with truth, accuracy, or
propriety.
Error indicates departure from the correct path; it often implies deviation
from what is morally or ethically right or proper: “Irrationally held truths
may be more harmful than reasoned errors” (Thomas H. Huxley). “There is no
error so monstrous that it fails to find defenders among the ablest men”
(Lord Acton).
Mistake often implies misunderstanding or misinterpretation and is usually
weaker than error in imputing blame or censure: “Nothing is easy in war.
Mistakes are always paid for in casualties” (Dwight D. Eisenhower).
Oversight refers to an inadvertent omission or error that results from
inattention: Through a regrettable oversight I failed to send you an
invitation. See also Synonyms at offense.
_______
Hope this can shed a little bit more light on the question.
Peltio,
YHS

 that's the error...)
<snip learned explanation incomprehensible to ordinary mortals>
I expect you're right; I was thinking of the standard error of the mean.
Mary
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84% of statistics are made up.  The other 43% are wrong.

I expect you're right; I was thinking of the standard error of the mean.
Ah.
Quello.
I'm not sure I could spend words on that without introducing the concepts of
population, standard deviation and sample. It is a measure of the spread of
the values in a sample, somehow related to the standard deviation of the
corresponding population.
Now, that's incoprehensible!
I think that 'a kind of variability' will suit our needs.
Unless you want me to give you formulae...
saluti stocastici,
Peltio