Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Traduzione meravigliosa.

Tolkien, again.
In the book "lord of the rings" I remember a character, the owner of the
Prancing Pony, in Bree.
He was Barliman Butterbur.
In Italian it is Omorzo Cactaceo.
I was trying to understand why this translation and now I know it (thanks to
it.fan.scrittori.tolkien for that).
Well, Barliman. It is close to Barley Man. In Italian Barley is Orzo and man
Uomo. So, Omorzo. That's marvelous.
And the surname, Butterbur, is a vegetable (a sort of root if I remember
right)
and there is a sentence in the book where Gandalf says :"Butterbur they call
him," thought I. "If this delay was his fault, I will melt all the butter in
him. I will
roast the old fool over a slow fire". To make this game of the butter (a
fat) and
according to the Tolkien's guide to the translators (He sayd to translate
butterbut like a fat plant) Wicky Alliata makes this Cactaceo. Charming.
Sebastiano
--
Ash nazg durbatuluuk, ash nazg gimbatul,
Ash nazg thrakatuluuk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul
Min Côr a thorthad hain phain, Min Côr a chiriad hain,
Min Côr a theged hain a nedhi vorn gweded hain

Prancing Pony, in Bree. He was Barliman Butterbur. In Italian it is Omorzo Cactaceo.
Very interesting; I happened to read LOTR for the first time just two years ago,
and that was the English version. I'm not sure if it is a good idea to translate
names, but at least you can see that the translator made some sincere effort
here. By the way, I recently saw the movie too, and I enjoyed it a lot; I fail to
understand the reasons for all those Tolkien fans to be so offended by the
movie. Like it was the first time a movie is not up to the book. I have never
seen a movie that is better than the book, so why all that racket?
+--
I know you can't speak, I know you can't sign
So cry right here on the dotted line

 Sebastiano
Butterbur is actually a wild plant (Petasites hybrides). I don't know what
this is in Italian (or if it exists in Italy). Barliman SOUNDS like Barley
Man. Barley is a grain crop (orzo). Thus the translation Uomo + Orzo or
Omorzo - very clever. The name makes you think of both wild plants and food.
Evi

this is in Italian (or if it exists in Italy).
Yeah, it exists, it's called farfaraccio or, popularly, piè d'asino,
but I guess these words weren't right for the translation ;)

Lupo Buono stand up shouting:

2001: a space odissey
shining
etc etc
-- 
Iso
TOGLI NOSPAM

 seen a movie that is better than the book, so why all that racket?
Well, the problem with the movie and the book fans is simply. I am a book
fan
and I am a cinema fan. I can clearly understand that the written word and
the
movie image are totally different. I can understand that Jackson did a movie
*based* on the book and that the book is not a script.
What I didn't like in the movie?
I am sad for Tom Bombadil [but it was impossible in a movie to put a
character like this...]
I'm sad for Tumuliande, but what to do witout Tom Bombadil? Who can save
the hobbits from the wraits?
Ok, we are in Bree.
The Prancin Pony is darker than what I have imagined. Ok, let's pass this.
Aragor have 4 knives. Why? Two of them have to be magical and have to be
in the hands of Merry and Pippin [for some scenes we will see in the third
movie]. What a luck, Sam did'n catch one of them ;).
Or Arwen, marvelous but in the book she was not like this.,
For me the spirit of the book is totally present in the movie.
I didn't like Lorien. Too dark, really too dark.
I've loved Galadriel, but she's more scary than enchanting.
But there are a lot of deleted scenes that we'll see on the dvd [rumors say
that there are scenes for 45 minuts to more than one hour...] and so it is
not
time to discuss about Lorien. Like Galadriel gifts, absolutly important, or
like
Gimly falling in adoration of Galadriel [and changing idea about elves].
All important stuff, we will see on dvd :).
A fan feels like a betrayal a lot of changes. Not me, I feel the movie like
a
tribute to Tolkien and to Tolkien's fans. "The lord of the rings" is a book,
or is
THE book, and the movie is a help for our immagination :).
I will take what I want from the movie and I will complete that with my
immagination based on the true story, the book.
And the movie is fantastic :).
Can you see my signature? It is the sentence on the ring. The firs is in
Black
Speech and the second in Sindarin. The original is in Black speech written
with elven tengwar.
Sebastiano
P.S.
I have no time to read it all, so... sorry fo every mistake. Geez, I gotta
practice
more.



You are perfectly right on that one; my point was that normally
movies are not up to the book. It takes the genius of guys like
Kubrick to stick out from the crowd.



I sure can, but I get a strange feeling of being observed if I read it
aloud.


 On Sun, 27 Jan 2002 11:19:09 GMT, Isoroku Yamamoto

ok.
some others exist.
but you're generally right.
anyway LOTR is NOT a bad movie.
-- 
Iso
TOGLI NOSPAM

 aloud.
Yeah, it gives the creeps.
quote:
"In the black abyss there appeared a single Eye that slowly grew. until it
filled
nearly all the Mirror. So terrible was it that Frodo stood rooted, unable to
cry
out or to withdraw his gaze. The Eye was rimmed with fire, but was itself
glazed, yellow as a cat's, watchful and intent, and the black slit of its
pupil
opened on a pit, a window into nothing."
It is when Frodo looks in Galadriel's mirror.
Sebastiano


 anyway LOTR is NOT a bad movie.
Nope, not at all. It's a damn cool movie, as Jackson said.
To be exact:
"Sure, it's not really LOTR... but it could still be a pretty damn cool
movie" P.J.


I've loved Galadriel, but she's more scary than enchanting.
I always thought that Galadriel is a very impressive character,
and the selection of Cate Blanchett for that role is perfect. Too
bad she has such a short part. Oh, and I also like a lot the
name Galadriel, I wonder where it comes from.


 name Galadriel, I wonder where it comes from.
Well, Cate Blanchett is perfect. She'll act more in the dvd, a lot of the
deleted
scenes are in Lorien ;).
What about the name:
Galadriel's names were Galadriel (in Sindarin), Alatariel (in Telerin),
or Altariel (in Quenya): all basically meaning Maiden Crowned with a Radiant
Garland, the name given her by Celeborn.
Tree-garland' (adapted from Galadriel, meaning 'radiant garland')
We know that this name came into use after Galadriel took up the rule of
Lórien with her husband Celeborn; it is related to the name Galadhrim,
referring to the people of that land.  The precise date of her arrival in
Lórien
isn't known, but the available evidence points to a date close to III 2000.
Btw, Galad in Sindarin means growth.
In the movie she said:
I amar prestar aen, han mathon ne nen, han mathon ne chae a han noston ne
'wilith.
That means "The world is changed; I can feel it in the water, I can feel it
in the
earth, I can smell it in the air.
Enchanting :)
Sebastiano



Fascinating
