Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Who's a pretty boy, then?

Salve. Qualcuno mi saprebbe gentilmente dire in che contesto si usa
questa espressione o qual è la sua origine?
Many thanks in advance!
Gio

 questa espressione
E' l'a tipica espressione con cui la mamma di Ron cerca invano di
tranquillizarlo.


tranquilliZZarlo, pardon


Si usa questa frase per parlare con un papagallo o altro uccelo
parlante.  Anche si usa tra amici con un po' di sarcasmo o ironia.
Saluti
John
-- 
John G Davies

 questa espressione o qual è la sua origine?
Non è tanto comune, ma "pretty boy" significa "bel ragazzo." Di solito si usa
"pretty" quando si parla delle ragazze, e si dice "handsome" quando si parla dei
ragazzi. Un "pretty boy" ha la connotazione di un ragazzo che alle ragazze piace
a causa dei lineamenti dolce non a causa dei lineamenti rudi.
C'è una situazione stereotipata in cui si sente questo tipo d'espressione. La
gente puó insegnare i pappagalli a dire "pretty boy" o "Polly* is a pretty boy."
Non sarebbe insolito di sentire "who's a pretty boy, then" parlato da un
pappagallo.
* "Polly" è un nome stereotipato per un pappagallo.
Ciao,
Ron
USA
Sono sempre grato per le correzioni al scritto italiano


Ron, I respectfully disagree.  I think "pretty boy" is used to indicate a gay
man.  
bye
Arianna


all'italiano scritto
ciao
Arianna



If this may help, digging around on the web, I just came across this book
title:
 
 James Gardiner, (1996), "Who's a Pretty Boy Then?: One Hundred & Fifty
 Years of Gay Life in Pictures", Serpent's Tail, 224 pages, ISBN
 1-85242-594-6. 
 
http://www.sbu.ac.uk/~stafflag/history.html#James
 Gardiner
Max

  1-85242-594-6.
That reference looks like it's right on target for the particular phrase in
question. I'm not in disagreement with Arianna's assertion that it refers to a
gay man, but I'm not completely comfortable saying that is the only connotation.
As I originally thought about the phrase, it also occurred to me to mention the
gay aspect, but I considered the term to be subject as well to a wider
interpretation. It is possible that the meaning has evolved to the point where
most people would interpret the phrase as a reference to a gay man.
However, as I think of the phrase in various contexts I'm inclined to think that
it could describe a boy who had feminine characteristics to his appearance, but
was not necessarily gay. Such a soft-featured, boyish youth could be attractive
to both women and homosexual men, and might be called a "pretty boy." In sum, I
would agree that it was an oversight not to mention the homosexual element to
the connotation (mark it down as not wanting to stereotype), and I acknowledge
that I may not be up to date on how pervasive that connotation has become for
the cultural conciousness in recent years.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 gay man.
You're right, it often does. It looks like Max may have found the origin for
this particular phrase, from a book on gay life.
I'd just like to remind you that in the past, "pretty boy" has been used as a
nickname to refer to men who were not gay. The most famous person I can think of
is Pretty Boy Floyd, a nickname for the American gangster Charles "Choc" Arthur
Floyd. Here's an excerpt from a website I found.
"...when the payroll master first described the three unidentified hoods to the
police, he referred to Choc as "a mere boy – a pretty boy with apple cheeks."
Columnists found their cue and when a real name was at last applied to those
"apple cheeks," they would savor the moniker "Pretty Boy" Floyd over and over
again.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters/prettyboy/
In my opinion, he looks like a goon, not a pretty boy.
Ciao,
Ron
USA


Qualche volta si', ma anche Ron ha ragione.
-- 
Dale Erwin
http://home.earthlink.net/~erwintech


Right!  Even Muhammad Ali was sometimes referred to as "pretty boy" and
definitely not because he was gay.  Rather it was because most boxers have
their faces pretty well mangled, and Ali's face remained unmaimed.


> was not necessarily gay. 
Of course, I agree with that. 
Any phrase or word which takes on a new meaning, usually still retains its
original one and can be used to indicate what the phrase literally means.  I
assumed that the poster knew the meaning of "pretty" and the meaning of "boy"
and could therefore infer that "pretty boy" is what Ron described above.  It's
analogous to someone asking  what "cool" means.  Of course, "cool" means cold,
but if the person knows any English at all, he would know the literal meaning
of "cool" and would most probably be asking about the colloquial meaning.  The
word "gay" is another example.  If someowne asks you what "gay" means, what
would you say?  Would you say that "gay" means "happy" ? Or would you say it
means "homosexual"? 
Of course, it means "happy", but probably that wouldn't be the question.  I
said that "pretty boy" was used to refer to a homosexual male assuming that the
poster knew the meaning of "pretty" and "boy" and could combine those two to
form one concept.
Moreover, I think she (or what it a he?) was asking for "the origin of the
expression" which leads me to believe that it wasn't the literal meaning she
was interested in.
Anyway, sorry to be so prolix.   
I do agree that pretty boy could describe a boy (or a man) who has feminine
characteristics.  That goes without saying.
bye
Arianna

 was interested in.
	The phrase is taken from a dialogue I found in a novel, between a
parrot and a man. The parrot says: "Jobbernowl!" and the man replies:
"Who's a pretty boy, then?" I just wanted to know the origin of it and
how it could be translated into Italian (maybe "Senti chi parla?").
Thank you all for your wonderful help, I really appreciated it.
	Best,
	Gio

 Arianna
Except not all gay men are pretty. ;-)
If we are talking about the whole phrase "Who's a pretty boy then?" I
had first assumed a doting bird fancier chatting to their parrot or
budgie or galah. I must be even more behind the times than Ron. 
Cheers,
Loki
What does a 100lb canary say to the cat?
Polly wants a cracker - NOW!!!
-- 
 

 Anyway, sorry to be so prolix.
I don't wish to appear over-particular on such trifling matters,
but wouldn't it have been more appropriate to say in this context:
'sorry _for being_ so prolix'?
Matteo (cybernaughty)


Yes, I think you are correct.  It would have been better.  Sorry FOR being so
careless.
I did do a search on the web after I read your post just to make sure I had not
created that expression myself.  I found 35,200 documents containing "sorry to
be". It must be a colloquial form .
bye
Arianna

 be". It must be a colloquial form .
Whether it is a colloquial form in its own right or a minor linguistic
inaccuracy now accepted through general usage, I cannot say.
Of course, 'sorry' can be followed by either gerund or infinitive.
My impression, though, is that the alternative usually implies a
difference between the two options - however slight it may be.
But then it's probably a nuance rather than a stark difference, and
I wouldn't certainly lose my sleep over it.
Ciao,
Matteo

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Forse però c'è una differenza di significato tra le due forme. Mi sembra
(per favore, qualcuno mi corregga se sto dicendo una sciocchezza) che
l'espressione "I'm sorry to <infitive>", si usi per scusarsi o esprimere
rammarico per qualcosa che si sta per fare, ad esempio:
  I'm sorry to contradict you, but this is just not true
mentre la forma "for <gerundive>" si usi più facilmente per riferirisi ad
an'azione trascorsa, ad esempio:
 You were right actually, I'm sorry for contradicting you
Ecco, la domanda è: c'è qualcosa di vero in quello che ho appena detto?
Max