Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Talking Posh

Here are two excerpts from a recording of some BBC programme. The speaker
is Sir or Lord Something:
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/fb83/posh1.mp3
I'm not sure I get all the words he lists: one sounds like "hunch", or even
"hunt" if I think of it being pronounced in an odd way; the word after
"off"; of some I don't understand why their pronunciation is unusual (he
says "Coventry", doesn't he? Is it a [O] vs [V] thing?)
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/fb83/posh2.mp3
Don't tell him he said "remove the idear of...": he might get really pissed
orf.
By the way, is pronouncing "realize" as ['re@laiz] posh or just a variant?
P.S. Good Saturday-to-Monday.
Bye, FB
-- 
"Golden orb... The golden orb... The golden orb..."
(Cold Comfort Farm, the film)

P.S. Good Saturday-to-Monday.
and you :) 

 "realise" :)
I suppose both are fine in BritEng.
Bye, FB
-- 
"The doctors found out that Bunbury could not live, that is what I mean—so
Bunbury died."
"He seems to have had great confidence in the opinion of his physicians."
("The Importance of Being Earnest", Oscar Wilde)

I suppose both are fine in BritEng.
We are taught at school to spell it "realise", and you're all but
English so you should spell it that way too ;)

Laundry, 
Does he say /la:ndrI/ instead of /lo:ndrI/? 
Isn't that sort of a yankee pronunciation? 
:)
-- 
Enrico C  /testing Pimmy/
Reply to: enrico /dot/ c /at\ people \dot\ it
--
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P.S. Good Saturday-to-Monday.
He says that his parents used that expression instead of "week-end", but it
doen't seem quite the same thing to me. Isn't a week-end Saturday (or even
Friday night) to Sunday?


 so you should spell it that way too ;)
Va bene, my old fellow.
Ciao, FB
-- 
"It sounds appalling!"
"Interesting and appalling. The others just sound appalling!"


 Cumpton, Bumpton and 
Whereas they should be pronounced with the "o" of "collie", right (not
Bampton, I suppose)?


 :)
I have a hunsh yankees say [lO:ndri] (ever so orf).
Bye, FB
-- 
Mrs. Palmer, in her way, was equally angry. 'She was determined to drop his
acquaintance immediately, and she was very thankful that she had never been
acquainted with him at all'. (Jane Austen)

 Enrico C  /testing Pimmy/
What?
Bye, FB
-- 
"Suppose I say I'm not interested."
"Does five hundred dollars interest you?"
"Very much."
"Then bring it: it's an expensive restaurant".
(The Cheap Detective)

 Bye, FB
Your hunch is right, and some even say what sounds like ['lwO:n-dri]
-- 
This is my opinion of modern, colloquial, American English. 
If you feel the need to e-mail me, un-not my address first.

 I have a hunsh yankees say [lO:ndri] (ever so orf).
PS: Ya getting good with ya AHs. Keep it up. :)


"all but English" ==> "almost English", right? 
Esatto.

Bampton, I suppose)?
Infatti.


I think that one was actually Brompton.
-- 
Mary


Yes, that is what I meant, yours is the correct transcription, I think.
BTW,  I have an old pocket dictionary (that claims to stick to RP and shows
IPA symbols) that uses the same symbol for both o's. 
-- 
Enrico C  /testing Pimmy/
Reply to: enrico /dot/ c /at\ people \dot\ it
--
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What?
I have been using it only for the last few hours. 
It's a piece of software for mail and newsgroups. 
It's very light, quite simple to use, and it's freeware. 
I am letting it have a go on my hardware for a while, then I'll see... :-)
http://www.geminisoft.com/it/
http://www.geminisoft.com/en/
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-- 
Enrico C  /testing Pimmy/
Reply to: enrico /dot/ c /at\ people \dot\ it
--


 Mind you English speakers, in Italian we say uicchčnd, not uěcchend.
Oui.

Yes, that is what I meant, 
But -let me correct my correction- as other pronunciation, not the one he
says. 


I have a hunsh yankees say [lO:ndri] (ever so orf).
M-W gives both /lO:ndri/ and /la:ndri/. 
Cambridge gives both, too, and says the latter is US.
Yet, Joey's just confirmed your hunch and said he is fine with the former!
I give up  :-)
-- 
Enrico C  /testing Pimmy/
Reply to: enrico /dot/ c /at\ people \dot\ it
--


 
Perhaps the best example of someone "talking posh" in the British media 
today is art-critic Brian Sewell! Some people find his accent so amusing 
(and his outspoken rudeness) that they have dedicated websites to him.
Have a look here:
www.brian-sewell.co.uk/brian-sewell-home.html
Click on "Stupid Woman"
It's Brian on a radio phone-in!
Incidentally this sort of "posh accent" is sometimes called "far back" as 
it is spoken in a sort of strangulated fashion from the back of the 
throat with the lips hardly moving.
This is the opposite to Italian, which (I find), is spoken from the front 
of the mouth with lots of lip and tongue movement. This is the main 
reason that we English speakers have such bad accents when we learn 
Italian. We don't pronounce enough! We have lazy lips & tongues. After a 
couple of days in Italy I suddenly "remember" to "over pronounce" 
everything and get less "blank looks" :-))
I was recently in Liguria when I overheard a woman; she was speaking fast 
fluent Italian, waving her arms about with all the usual local gestures, 
yet I knew immediately that she was Australian!! When I met her later we 
found that she had lived in Italy, married to an Italian, for 16 years!
Non ho speranza di successo!!
Pip pip
-- 
Chris Notton
Replace "nospam" with my surname to reply by email
Sostituisca il "nospam" con il mio cognome per rispondere
}<////(*>

 everything and get less "blank looks" :-))
Sometimes my Italian becomes stress-timed, like English!
[1] In case you don't know: monovibration, that is the "r" as it was
pronounced in such words as "very" and "heritage", as a monovibrated
Italian "r", so to speak.
Bye, FB
-- 
"It sounds appalling!"
"Interesting and appalling. The others just sound appalling!"


, 
fam.baldu...@tin.it
 says...

O.k. on slightly different path.
What do us foreigners sound like to you! This worries me a bit, 
especially when I see people I am trying to talk to "flinch", as if in 
pain!
In England a Frenchman trying to speak English sounds rather nice, women 
even consider the accent "sexy"
Italians learning English also sound quite good, they just use too many 
vowels and tend to add them to the ends of verbs.
On the other hand Germans trying to speak English sound bad!
I always find Italians very patient & helpful when I inflict my 
linguistic skills on innocent passers-by! But I wonder what you really 
think, Laurel & Hardy perhaps?




I think you're right (as ever).

 think, Laurel & Hardy perhaps?
No...
Bye, FB
-- 
"Come, dear, we have already missed five, if not six, trains. To miss any
more might expose us to comment on the platform."


 native speaker, but they tend to keep their uvular R and some nasal vowels.
Una volta... I used to do a party piece in Italy, speaking Italian with
a cod German accent. Da ridere. Troppo facile parlar italiano col
accento inglesissimo. "Pahlahe", come dicevi te.
-- 
"The past resembles the future as water resembles water"  Ibn Khaldun
My .
mac.com
 address is a spam sink.
If you wish to email me, try atlothian at blueyonder dot co dot uk


I have noticed that many Italians have trouble with "erre" and my wife
consoles me with this fact (see above). Her sister, for example cannot
pronounce this letter correctly. I'm a fan of Formula uno, and there
is an announcer who covers the races for RAI who also can't pronounce
the "erre". He sounds a little like Elmer Fudd (cwazy wabbit)  -
"vettura" becomes "vettuwa", which makes me feel a little better
seeing he is in a high profile position as an announcer, and a good
one, but he has this small impediment in his pronunciation. 

 
<snip>
I think that's true, because it happens to Italians who learn English
the other way round, and I agree with you so much that I've just
quoted part of your interesting post in a thread with Subject
"pronounciation before meaning"  on the newsgroup
misc.education.language.english :)

, 
use_reply...@despammed.com
 says...

Thanks very much!
The thing in need is regular practise with native Italian speakers. I 
have a lot of the vocabulary (thank you Latin) and plenty of nice easy 
REGULAR auxiliary verbs. I only get to use them two or three times a year 
for a week or two.
I listen to Radio Rai on the computer. that helps a bit, especially the 
classical stations where they speak nice and s l o w l y so I can keep 
up.
Salve e Pip pip


 siamo con voi.
Not quite, if I'm not mistaken: you say [kar] ("car"), but [pa:t] ("part").
Is this right?
By the way, do you speak "Mr. speaker"?
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/fb83/scot60.mp3
Bye, FB
-- 
Se dico "siedi!" manca l'oggetto.
Siedo chi? Lei o me?
(da it.cultura.linguistica.italiano)

 "Mr. speaker"?
Bye, FB
-- 
Just as I thought. Another test that could have cost us our lives, saved
only by the fact that I am enormously well-bred.
(Murder by Death)

 By the way, do you speak "Mr. speaker"?
Impossible mostrati in ASCII.


 Impossible mostrati in ASCII.
What?


 not to), because the first English films I watched were old.
Hmmm. Come si direbbe "camp" in italiano?


 Hmmm. Come si direbbe "camp" in italiano?
1) "affettato" = it's smth you're pretending, usually your mood or your 
manners, in order not to show your real opinion or feelings.
2) (but i think you meant the first one) "effemminato" = sissy
Nebo

 Hmmm. Come si direbbe "camp" in italiano?
1) Omosessuale
2) Effeminato
3) Pacchiano; pretenzioso ma antiquato; ridicolo
Minchia! (smiling face)
Really, the only word I sometimes can't help pronouncing with a flap is
"very". It's easy if I pronounce the word alone, but I have to slow down or
concentrate and stress it if I say "very much" or "very stupid", otherwise
what slips out of my mouth is "vedy much", "vedy stupid".
Ciao, FB
-- 
"Are you sure an embryo parson should have a plane?"
"Everyone should have a plane!"


 what slips out of my mouth is "vedy much", "vedy stupid".
Ti aiuterebbe senz'altro un accento scozzese. Ben pregiato, anche.
Poche vocali, e tutti i consonanti vanno pronunciati.
Ripeto (penso che l'abbia "postato" qualche mese fa) una piccola storia.
Mi trovavo a Baikonur (lancia di razzo) e facevo parte di un gruppo di
giornalisti: diverse lingue, ecc. La lingua comune divento' (meglio
diventava? Penso che si tratti dello stile) l'italiano.
Tutti quanti, tranne un giornalist e un fotografo inglesi, si
communicavano in lingua italiano: non sempre un italiano perfetto, ma
si capiva senza problemi. Russi (almeno alcuni) compresi.
dopo un paio di giorni, il fotografo inglese (un simpaticone) mi disse:
"How come you speak English so well, and with a Scottish accent?"
"That's because I'm a Scot."
Stupore.
Non aveva mai sentito parlare in lingua straniera un britannico.
Quindi, FB, la tua "vedy" non conta. Forza, su.


 wrote:

No: piu' complicato. Certo i froschi c'entranto, ma.... Vedi il mio
risposto a FB


Non aveva mai sentito parlare in lingua straniera un britannico.
But some of you do study French at scholl, don't you? 


 But some of you do study French at scholl, don't you?
Se è come da noi ...
 
-- 
Today no, tomorrow yes.

 Quindi, FB, la tua "vedy" non conta. Forza, su.
Vedy well, I'll try to drop it, somehow. I'm about to see "Tinker, Tailor,
Soldier, Spy", with Alec Guinness, not exactly the ideal thing. (smiling
face)
Bye, FB
-- 
After a year of speculation, inventor Dean Kamen unveiled his mysterious
"It", which is a battery-powered two-wheel people mover. Many believe it
will completely revolutionize the way people get hit by cars.
(Saturday Night Live)

 Se č come da noi ...
Lo č.
-- 
Mary

 exactly the ideal thing. (smiling face)
Ho letto il libro, sai come va a finire?


 Ho letto il libro, sai come va a finire?
No. Finora ho solo dato un'occhiata al primo episodio, per curiosità,
proprio perché detesto -- non credo di averlo mai fatto -- vedere un film
prima di leggere il libro da cui sia tratto o cui sia ispirato. Credo
proprio che leggerò prima il libro (o i libri? Non so bene, perché esiste
un altro sceneggiato, per così dire, che è "Smiley's People"). Solo di
Hitchcock ho solo visto i film, ma Alfred è Alfred.
Ciao, FB
-- 
L'importante è che risplenda tu, sola primadonna e immarcescibile leggenda
del tuo pianerottolo.
(Lucangel su it.cultura.libri)

 film, ma Alfred è Alfred.
Pare che li abbia tratti da romanzi di non eccelso valore, 
mentre Le Carré è un buono scrittore, secondo me.


 mentre Le Carré è un buono scrittore, secondo me.
Con emule si possono trovare due interviste piuttosto interessanti: una è
una sorta di biografia, una parla di Alec Guinness. David Cornwell (alias
John Le Carre) parla anche molto bene.


 A looong week-end!
Sometimes it's pronounced almost "weeg-end" in BritEng. I've a hunch it's a
rather posh pronunciation. Is it?
[...]


 rather posh pronunciation. Is it?
No, mi sembra piuttosto finto americano.
Meno male che questa volta hai detto "I've a hunch". Stavo per dirti che
"I've a fancy" ti fa sembrare un personaggio di Jane Austen...
-- 
Mary

 "I've a fancy" ti fa sembrare un personaggio di Jane Austen...
I didn't think it was old-fashioned. Is it really unusable nowadays?
Bye, FB
-- 
"Is this Miss Prism a female of repellent aspect, remotely connected with
education?" "She is the most cultivated of ladies, and the very picture of
respectability" "It is obviously the same person".


 I didn't think it was old-fashioned. Is it really unusable nowadays?
It's not terribly common these days, I'll warrant.
-- 
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - 
http://www.Mailgate.ORG

 I didn't think it was old-fashioned. Is it really unusable nowadays?
Yes, I'm afraid so.
-- 
Mary

 It's not terribly common these days, I'll warrant.
LOL!
-- 
Mary