Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: If you are a lending institution.......

If you are a lending institution, I don't need your money.
If you are a charitable organization, I've already sent you money.
If you are selling something, I don't have any money.
If you are one of my parents, please wire me some money.
If you are my ex husband, you are not sending me enough money.
If you are the IRS, you already took my money.
If you are my daughter, stop asking me for money.
If you are my best friend, give me back my money.
If you are my lawyer, I don't want to talk about money.
If you are not one of the parties mentioned above, please leave a
message.
It's my latest outgoing message.  What do you think?  Should I leave it
there or go back to "No one is available to answer the phone right
now.  Please leave a message".
ciao
Arianna
Sent via Deja.com 
http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

 It's my latest outgoing message.  What do you think?  
I find it kinda long, especially if someone is calling
you from across the ocean. you could try this other one:
you have reached an imaginary number. please rotate
ninety degrees clockwise your telephone and dial again.
(or else leave a message)
	-p-

 It's my latest outgoing message.  What do you think?  >


you from across the ocean.
So do I.
I think the previous one is ok.
Bye Asoka xx'82
<< However fast you may run, you will never overreach the ball >>

 I remain, as always, ecc
Questo invece cosa significa?
--
   A rileggerci!
... Don't just stand there...  KNEEL!

 	-p-



Resto, come sempre, ecc


 Questo invece cosa significa?
In fede
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
If time were invented 10 minutes sooner, no one would be late.

Arianna
Try this:
"I'm not here to answer you because I have far better things to do now.
Hence try to say something interesting unless you want me to find something
better than calling you back."
How do you like it?
cheers,
Peltio

 How do you like it?
E' carino.  Avevo da qualche parte una "collezione" di messaggi di una
certa "originalita'".  Se li trovo li trascrivo qui.  Un mio amico ha
il seguente:  "This is an answering machine.  You know what to do"
Very terse and to the point!
Bye
arianna
PS: sorry about OT thread, but I figured...what the hell, after all, it
is in ENGLISH!


 It doesn't sound that humorous to me.
this is strange indeed. everyone to whom I told this joke appreciated it,
at least a little bit. do you know what an imaginary number is?
	-p-

at least a little bit. do you know what an imaginary number is?
AH! L'HO CAPITA!!!!
ROTFL!
ehm...
...scusate.
Peltio DeMoivre
Peltio


Italian humour's very different from English/American humour. I guess
Arianna's been in the States for a long time.
Here are some variations I found that she might like:
(To the tune of "Heartbreak Hotel" with appropriate instrumental
accompaniment):
I just left home baby
I'll be out fer a spell
and if you don't leave a message baby
you can go to <BEEP>
Hi!  John's answering machine is broken.  This is his refrigerator.  Please
speak very slowly, and I'll stick your message to myself with one of these
magnets.
This one has very exciting scary music, along with a kitten crying in the
background, and the voice goes:
The machine answering this message is connected to a 5000 volt power
supply, and a relay which is wired to this small kitten.  If you hang up
before you leave a message, it will complete the circuit and will fry
the kitty.  The choice is YOURS....   BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
Psychic Hot Line.  Don't leave a message.  We'll call you back.


I must say I didn't, and it didn't occur to me until I read Peltio's message
that an imaginary number might have a mathematical meaning.
Are all your friends mathematicians, Paolo, or did they just laugh to be
polite?
After a quick web search I'm just as confused as before, but would I be right
in guessing that if you rotate the phone through 90 degrees you're making
fractals?
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
There are umpteen imaginary numbers.


Am I missing something here  or am I just dumb?  I seem to remember
something about imaginary numbers, but quite frankly, I wouldn't be
able to tell you exactly what they are.  So, following Mary footsteps,
I also did a quick search and this is what I found:
*******Imaginary Numbers.
The product of a real number multiplied by itself is 0 or positive; the
equation x2 = -1 has no solutions in the real number system. If such a
solution is desired, new numbers must be invented. Let i = -1 be a new
number representing a solution of the preceding equation. All numbers
of the form a + bi, in which a and b are real numbers, belong to the
complex number system. If b is not 0, the complex number is called an
imaginary number; if b is not 0 but a is 0, the complex number is
called a pure imaginary; if b is 0, the complex number is a real
number.
Imaginary numbers (the term must not be used in a literal sense but in
the technical sense just described) are extremely useful in the theory
of alternating currents and many other branches of physics and natural
science. *************
Now, are you trying to tell me that I am supposed to understand the
above in order to get the joke?
Just answer yes or no please.
No explanation on imaginary numbers is necessary.  Thank you.
bye
Arianna


 at least a little bit. do you know what an imaginary number is?
E' il dramma delle due culture, quello su cui si sta discutendo
civilmente si it.cultura.classica. Un professore universitario di
fisica che dovesse ignorare Manzoni sara' senz'altro un povero
ignorante arrivato chissaccome alla cattedra. Ma a tutti quelli che
non bazzicano Frascati o Ginevra e' ancora lecito ignorare i
fondamenti della matematica, della fisica o della biologia.
Alex


 Alex
Alex, io sono laureata in fisiologia ed insegno biologia da anni.  Ai
tempi dell'universita' (piu' di vent'anni fa) anch'io ho seguito corsi
di matematica, fisica, chimica ecc ecc (e ti assicuro che non erano
facilissimi), ma per dirti la verita' non ho capito questa storia dei
numeri immaginari.
L'analogia che fai tu con il Manzoni lascia un po' a desiderare.  Il
Manzoni lo si sente nominare in continuazione (assieme a tutte le vie,
licei, scuole medie ecc ecc che portano il suo nome).  I numeri
immaginari....beh non mi ricordo l'ultima in cui li ho sentiti
nominare.  Siamo tutti esperti nel nostro campo e tutti (e sottolineo
la parola tutti) abbiamo delle lacune in altri campi.  O forse tu no?
ciao
Arianna


 Peltio ha scritto:


 [Elzevier Garamond, who begun studying Law by mistake]
Good heavens, and you call yourself a non-mathematician!
I looked at half a dozen websites to try and understand the concept, and yours
is the first explanation I've understood. Even the "maths for idiots" pages were
way above my head.
You should be writing popular science books.
Mary
[who began (and finished) studying law on purpose]
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
Is there an imaginary cure for hypochondria?

 la parola tutti) abbiamo delle lacune in altri campi.  O forse tu no?
Accidenti se non ho lacune, prima fra tutte la lingua inglese!
Arianna, non sono prosuntuoso. BTW, sono un biologo e mi e' capitato
talvolta in passato di fare supplenze di matematica e osservazioni
scientifiche, ma nelle scuole medie inferiori.
I numeri "immaginari" vengono rappresentati come numeri aventi una
parte immaginaria equivalente al quadrato di -1. La definizione non
e' formale, anche perche' ho l'abitudine di scrivere on-line, il
telefono costa, e non posso consultare un libro di matematica.
Comunque, questa nozione sicuramente l'avevi.
Le mie considerazioni sul Manzoni erano banali, IMO. Nella nostra
societa' viene considerato *giustamente* ignorante chi, pur
possedendo una solida cultura scientifica, ignorasse i fondamenti
della cultura umanistica. Non vale purtroppo l'inverso. Il
professore di letteratura italiana che ignorasse le leggi del moto,
o la seconda legge della termodinamica sarebbe ritenuto ugualmente
una persona colta. Tu vivi in un paese piu' moderno del nostro e
non ti rendi conto probabilmente dei problemi creati qui da noi
da questa curiosa asimmetria.
Non volevo tuttavia essere polemico e mi scuso con tutti.
Sorry,
Alex


 wrote in message
mGlD3.5101$Iq6....@typhoon.libero.it...


la parola tutti) abbiamo delle lacune in altri campi.  O forse tu no?
Non so se lui abbia lacune o no, ma probabilmente si riferiva al fatto che,
generalmente, la cultura scientifica è tenuta in meno considerazione di
quella classica o letteraria, come è testimoniato dal fatto che si trova più
comunemente (parlando naturalmente di gente comune e senza specifiche
inclinazioni) ed inoltre è più supportata dai mass media : notate, ad
esempio, che nei programmi televisivi scarsamente si parla di matematica o
di altro (di matematica soprattutto...).
Non so a cosa sia dovuto questo fatto, ma è probabile che sia un'eredità dei
tempi passati, quando gli argomenti letterari erano "magni".


 polite?
well, some are physicists. but I ingenuosly (???) thought the concept of
imaginary number to belong to a general and not to a specialized culture.  
something learned in the 'liceo' not at the university.
	-p-

 fondamenti della matematica, della fisica o della biologia.
e io ci casco sempre.  quante volte vi e` capitato di sentire qualcuno
addirittura vantarsi con civetteria di non capire niente di matematica?  
e` una cosa che mi fa andare in bestia.
	-p-

 above in order to get the joke?
well, ahem, I must admit that, from a certain point of view, the answer is
yes.  in fact the joke refers to the cartesian representation of imaginary
numbers rather than on their properties, as Elzevier Garamond clearly
explained and, ahhhr, gulp... I'm going to 
"pour the ash on my head" (gia`, cambiando discorso, come si dice
"cospargersi il capo di cenere"?)
	-p-

well, some are physicists. but I ingenuosly (???)
naively
Baci
Isa
Work like you don't need money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no one's watching


I don't know about Italy, but in England, it isn't something you'd learn
unless you specialise in maths, either at A-level (=scuola superiore) or at
university.
At least that's how things were when I was at school; I don't know how much
the curriculum has changed since then.
I've had to relearn an awful lot of maths to help my son with his homework
(he's just finished the quarta elementare).
I was surprised to find how much maths theory children are taught in primary
school in Italy; we never learned about commutative properties and so on, or
if we did, we learned how they worked but not the abstract concept or long
name.
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
Maths - the one subject that *really* counts!

 -p-
Mi associo nello stigmatizzare questo diffuso vezzo (almeno in Italia).
Peraltro, riguardo all'accessibilità del tuo "joke" a base di piano
complesso, ciò mi ha ricordato che, quando, dopo la maturità classica,
decisi di iscrivermi a ingegneria elettronica, il primo argomento che mi fu
fatto studiare durante l'estate per colmare le mie lacune e non iniziare con
troppo svantaggio i corsi, fu proprio quello dei numeri immaginari, perchè
al Politecnico era una conoscenza data per acquisita, che non si insegnava
neppure nei corsi di azzeramento che pure esistevano.
Dunque, se, ben consigliato, non li avessi studiati per mio conto, sarei
stato riguardato dai miei primi docenti come uno afflitto da gravissime
lacune nella matematica di base, cioè un ignorante.
I numeri immaginari sono giusto un centimetro al di là della portata di un
normale studente del campo umanistico, in un paese come l'Italia, almeno,
dove tale portata è istituzionalmente limitata. Non so quanto una lacuna del
genere sia perciò giustificabile (posto che non addosso alcun genere di
colpa a chi avesse questa lacuna e accuso genericamente il sistema...).
Insomma, il tuo mi è sembrato un prematuro tentativo di comportarsi
normalmente in un ambiente (non solo ICLING per carità) che gli "scienziati"
non li ha ancora normalizzati.
Ciao
Giorgio

della cultura umanistica. 
Curiosamente proprio oggi (14 settembre 1999) Indro Montanelli sul
Corriere della Sera risponde alla lettera di una lettrice che affronta
proprio questo argomento ("Viene considerato 'colto' l'igegnere, il
matematico, lo scienziato, oppure lo scrittore, o comunque un
letterato"). Con una delle sue battute fulminanti il grande Indro
risponde testualmente:
"La Cultura e` come il denaro: se ce l'hai non ne parli".
Non offenderti: fra noi due chi ha parlato di piu` di cultura, anche
in questi ultimi giorni, sono io.
Per finire, un aforisma alla Mary:
Culture is the tacit agreement to let the means of subsistence
disappear behind the purpose of existence.  Civilization is the
subordination of the latter to the former. Karl Kraus
Ciao :-)
Ferdinando Chiodo

 Psychic Hot Line.  Don't leave a message.  We'll call you back.
This is a good one.  Maybe I should try it.
OK, guys, don't tell me any more jokes for a while.  I am all joked-out.
bye
Arianna


 wrote in message
7rl38e$33k$1...@nslave1.tin.it...


Ferdinando Chiodo
ciao
Gennaro
--
Per rispondere eliminare ".HELL" dall'indirizzo.
To reply remove ".HELL" from the end of the address.

OK ragazzi, continuate a parlare di questi numeri immaginari, ma il mio
outgoing message?  Ve lo siete dimenticato?  Quasi nessuno mi ha dato
un'opinione.
ciao


"La Cultura e` come il denaro: se ce l'hai non ne parli".
touche'
Ciao
Alex



That reminds me of another of my favourite aphorisms (talking about very
expensive purchases like yachts and Rolls Royces):
"If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it."
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
"When I hear the word 'culture', I reach for my revolver" -- Hermann
Goering

 wrote in a message


 -p-
E' vero, capita spesso.


weird to normal people.
It's better if you say "I suggest that you should go and see a doctor".


...
| 
| >I could translate the whole sentence:
| >"I suggest you to go and see a doctor (a shrink, probably)"
| >you could use it anytime you're thinking people's speeches are becoming
| >weird to normal people.
| 
| 
| It's better if you say "I suggest that you should go and see a doctor".
| 
| Bye Asoka xx'82
Is it possible to say "I suggest (that) you go and see a doctor"? Somehow that 'should' doesn't sound right to me.
bye
cristina

Is it possible to say "I suggest (that) you go and see a doctor"? Somehow
that 'should' doesn't sound right >to me.
Actually, I have never heard of it.
If the suggestion concerns the person speaking too, you must use the
infinitive+ing (e.g. "I suggest going to the restaurant", that is to say
"you and I").
If the speaker isn't concerned, I use "I suggest that you should...",
because in this case "should" would be translated as "dovresti/dovreste" (a
piece of advice).


 It's better if you say "I suggest that you should go and see a doctor".
Mi fai piangere; arrivava diretta dal Collins :(((((

 wrote in message
37DF6BA0...@nospamgvo.it...


that 'should' doesn't sound right >to me.
Yes, this is even better. (It's a subjunctive, so you would use
"go" in all persons, eg. "I suggested that he go and see a doctor")
It means almost the same thing, and the difference is hard
to explain.
There was a discussion of this problem in alt.usage.english 
recently and half the native speakers couldn't grasp it, so 
no-one needs to feel alarmed if the point escapes them.
The topic was mad cow disease, and the sentences in dispute 
were:
"The minister suggested/proposed that the cows should be killed"
as opposed to:
"The minister suggested/proposed that the cows be killed".
The first gives his opinion about what should happen, and
is more hypothetical. The second is his recommendation that
it happen (ie. that it go ahead) - more subjunctives!
Here is a clearer example. 
"The law states that dogs should not be on the beach."
"The law requires that dogs not be on the beach"
If a person had his dog on the beach, he could plead that
sign one was merely a directive about what *should* happen,
and that it in no way forbade his dog being on the beach.
Sign 2, however, does forbid dogs on the beach.
I have a feeling that I may have confused some of you!
Bye, 
Raymot
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[

Mi fai piangere; arrivava diretta dal Collins :(((((
Impossible. I suggest you check it again. "I suggest you to go ..."
is not English.
You may, however, say: "I advise you to go ..."
Raymot
[[[[[[[[[[[

concept or long name.
IMVHO, this is one of the most striking differences between the UK/US and
the Italian way to teach (I'm talking about scientific subjects). It is true
even at a university level. Most unfortunately (this is doubly IMVHO), a
more pragmatic approach seems to have found its way even in the Italian
universities, leading to a higher specialization but to a lower degree of
'elasticity' altogether.
That is to say: you'll be an ace in your field but an ass a stone's throw
from it.
saluti frattali,
Peltio
___
Math: the only magic we can teach.

 un'opinione.
You mean it wasn't just a joke?
If you were really serious (which I find hard to believe), I guess you
should interface the answering machine with a voice-recognition program
that triggers the fax at the sound of the word "money", so all the caller
gets is an unpleasant whistle in the ear.
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
Ask not for whom the bell tolls...let the answering machine get it.


To wear sackcloth and ashes.
It's a bit dramatic, though.
I would just go and stand in the corner for a while, if I were you.
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
You've stowed his ashes commendably, was Tom's well-earned compliment.