Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: ulteriore chiarimento

L'unica cosa che ancora non mi è chiaro è il modo di tradurre "dropped
preposition". La frase intera è: " Sam spent long summer days just
diagramming sentences. He got so furios when he saw a dropped preposition."
Potrebbe essere tradotto in questo caso nel seguente modo: "Si adirava
quando vedeva una preposizione omessa, soppressa"?
Grazie
Giovanna



 wrote in message
news:friZ6.17760$4J1.1...@news2.tin.it...

In my copy of Fowler's Modern English Usage, the entry on prepositions
contains only a long discussion on whether or not it is good style to place
a preposition at or near the end of a sentence.
i.e. is this:
I was able to help a friend _on_ whom I had previously relied.
better than this:
I was able to help a friend I had previously relied _on_.
The latter type of construction is referred to as a "deferred" or "stranded"
preposition, rather than "dropped". However, it may be the same thing that
you referred to, and if not, then I have no idea what a dropped prepostion
could possibly be.
The conclusion, by the way, is that deferred prepostions are, in general,
best avoided, but there are some circumstances in which they are fine, and
even some in which they are necessary. This contrasts with the received
opinion during the 18th Century, when they were considered to be incorrect
in all circumstances.
J

> De-construct -------DE = dropped preposition
Non sono sicuro che questa spiegazione sia corretta. Non ho sentito mai questo
termine "dropped preposition" ma mi sembra che i esempi siano i prefissi, non le
preposizioni. Infatti, i significati delle parole cambiano quando si omettono i
prefissi "de" o "un." Seconda me, č piů probabile che "dropped preposition"
voglia dire che la frase manca una preposizione.
Per esempio, dire:
"Who did you give the book?" invece di "To whom did you give the book?"
Perň questa č soltanto una supposizione.
Ciao,
Ron
USA
NB: A proposito, si scrive "furious."

 could possibly be.
For what it may be worth, I searched around a bit, but I couldn't find a
single piece of evidence about "drop" being used as equivalent to "strand"
to describe that tipical English synctactical phenomenon.
Couldn't it simply mean something like "mistakenly omitted"?
Max

> De-construct -------DE = dropped preposition
Non sono sicuro che questa spiegazione sia corretta. Non ho sentito mai questo
termine "dropped preposition" ma mi sembra che i esempi siano i prefissi, non le
preposizioni. Infatti, i significati delle parole cambiano quando si omettono i
prefissi "de" o "un." Seconda me, è più probabile che "dropped preposition"
voglia dire che la frase manca una preposizione.
Per esempio, dire:
"Who did you give the book?" invece di "To whom did you give the book?"
Però questa è soltanto una supposizione.
Dentri messagio quale dice Giovanna..
dropped preposition veramente significa...
DIMENTICARE PREPOSIZIONI...
ma ( in Maine ) per che conosci diferenze gradisime tra stato e stato...( Texas e mondo diverso )
dropped prep' significa anche PREFISSO..
picolo pezzo ( RE - IN - UN - DE ) che "saltano"
parola a parola...e cambiano significato di frase.
Ron said : 
Per esempio, dire:
"Who did you give the book?" invece di "To whom did you give the book?"
Però questa è soltanto una supposizione.
Due frasi quale hai scritto sono sbagliate..
Prima frase e sbagliata TOTALE ..
Seconda...e giusta per gramatica ma "AMBIGUA"
"To whom did you give the book"
e GIUSTO PER GRAMATICA...ma sbagliato...
Sentenza giusta e : 
Who did you give the book to ?
REGOLA E QUESTA : 
Mio amico con quale gioco.....
TRADOTTO IN MODO LETERALE
My friend with who/whom I play 
quando "pronome relativo" e complemento diretto o oggeto ; 
pronome relativo e cancellato 
e preposizione deve essere fine di frase : 
My friend I play with 
OPPURE
The city in which I live 
The city I live in ..
The reason for which I'm here
The reason I'm here for
Ma questo non e chiamato "dropped preposition"
E chiamato : "defining preposition"
Dentro messagio di Giovanna significa : 
dimenticare preposizioni ( sbagliare )
forse e slang per significare...( sbagliare tutto )
io conosco solamente slang di Maine...( stato rurale )
ma California , Texas , Rhode Island , Nevada ,
e stati non rurali...puo essere possibile li...
Ta Ta fo' now 
Ondra
 
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Salve,
I did find this  example on left out prepositions that better seems
to fit being called a 'dropped preposition.'.
" Especially in America, a preposition is sometimes left out and an
old-fashioned 's' added to the noun in such sentences as 'What do you
do nights?' for 'What do you do at night?' . 
In Australia and New Zealand this is not established practice, and
use of the preposition is recommended." :-)
                                    How to write &speak better.
Sydney, 1976
Cheers,
Loki
-- 
 

 Who did you give the book to ?
Suddenly, my doubts are increased tenfold. Readers can judge for themselves.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

Salve,



Cheers,
Loki
----------
This is anything but true...
The lingo in U.S.A. 
well..Maine Vermont New York at least
the lingo actually is pinned down.
This looks as though some aussies made up 
this kinda "How to write&speak better"
try lining up to determine how incorrect
U.S. lingo happen to be , and how unimportant 
grammar could be for americans.
Well...tellin' the truth there is no arbitrary
differences from U.S. to Australia .
But boffins supposed to have shown Aussies ranked
first in Lingo problems as well as the highest number
of dyslexia illnesses.
Into the bargain I dunno whether the "How to w' et cet"
has been perusing or just faking out with.
Australian dictio look as though butter wouldn't melt in their mouth , but god forbid someone else 
to try posting all grammar Ausrialia errors to do away with into giant tome....
Anyway if you gonna try , to utter the sentence : 
< What do you do nights ? > 
even a child might gonna tell you , it sounds as if you were tending to speak , in a kinda 
not-realisti-American way.....
Into the bargain now wonder when someone 
would get close with you and say : 
< You gotta get to doc' better...teacher >
No way ! I have to hear "What do you do nights" yet
But we're talking about Maine and Vermont..
Who knows California...and mister booby TEXAS :-)
 
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 This is anything but true...
What's the deal with you? You're obviously not a native English speaker. In
fact, your English is atrocious. Why are you trying to pass yourself off as an
American living in Maine?
Curious,
Ron
USA

in all circumstances.
I'm sorry but I just can't resist :-)
- Excuse me, where's the library at?
- I'm sorry, but it is not correct to end a sentence with a
preposition.
- Hmm. I see. Where's the library, asshole?
-- 
Isa
Work like you don't need money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no one's watching
http://web.tiscalinet.it/alfabeto_auschwitz/

 In fact, your English is atrocious. >
You're such a splendidly gifted child!

 - Hmm. I see. Where's the library, asshole?
Bella. Se ben ricordo è riportata anche nelle FAQ di aue.
Però, io  manterrei l'"at" nell'ultima risposta, 
  - Hmm. I see. Where's the library at, asshole?
Così è più divertente. :)
Max

What's the deal with you? You're obviously not a native English speaker. In
fact, your English is atrocious. Why are you trying to pass yourself off as an
American living in Maine?
No...gia ho detto non sono nato nel AMERICA...
Mio papa e italiano...
sono nato in Francia...
ma abitavo nel Italia , Finlandia , Slovakia..
Se vermente abiti in U.S.
devi sapere diferenza da stato a stato...
Io non capisco cosa dicono quelli di Texas..
E 70 % persone Maine Aroostok guarda televione con
subtitles...
Sono 9 anni abito nel America...
molti parenti sono Mainers..o Vermonters or Mussholes
conosco inglese....ma non posso parlare inglese
comune che tu parli...
io conosco solo inglese in questo modo...
e pensavo che tu scrivi abiti in U.S. puoi capire veramente cosa dico...
quindi io non credo abiti in U.S.
oppure capivi..
cosa non hai capito ???
Anche tuo inglese e atroce per me...
per che e troppo da scuola...
tu dici : Why are you trying to pass yourself off as an
American living in Maine?
tuo inglese e strano...
veramente nessuno scrive questo modo..questa frase..
non siamo in scuola...
quasi tutti in U.S. scrivono Yerself..
oppure Why are ya camo fo' American ??
e nessuno dice pass yourself off..
ma veramnete e piu usato ..
Why are ya cammo 
Se tu sei italiano..e vuoi fare americano..
devi essere meno ( DA SCUOLA ) ..
mia sorella ha 4 anni e scrive meno PERFETTO che te...
cosa scrivi e giusto per gramatica ma AMBIGUO...
io insegno gramatica....ma non parlo come in scuola
Adesso provo a spiegare parole che penso solo in Maine
son osate : 
Into the bargain = besides
Lingo = language
Aussies = Australians
Boffins = Experts
Kinda = Sort of
Booby = Stupid
Io penso che forse queste parole solamente sono usate per Maine e Vermont...
ma se sei americano...devi capire quasi tutto..
anche se uso dialetto...
P.S. scrivo questo mesagio con italiano
per che non ho capito se puoi capire cosa scrivo o no.
o se veramente sei americano o no..
quando sono sicuro scrivo ancora con inglese ( Mainer )
P.S: adesso sono nel Italia per che mia nonna e malata
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Hey Ron..
prova nel guardare 
Home Alone 3 
Deep end of the ocean
Home Improvement
Kinder Garten Cop
Baby sitter's club 
One fine day...
et cetera
forse puoi capire cosa e veramente lingua americana
e fingere meglio che sei americano...
P.S. Inglese e Americano sono due lingue diverse....
Se sei americano e guardi films americani 
devi conoscere parole quali uso io...
altri non possono capire 
( boffin , bobbies , lingo , yesnaby , outta , mighta )
ma tu se sei americano devi capire...
per che tutti films usano queste parole...
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Booby = Stupid
We all know the words, dude. Especially Ron, I'm sure. It's the way
you put them together that doesn't work. 
No hard feelings,


Così è più divertente. :)
Io sono un'anima cosi' gaia che mi faceva ridere anche prima :-))


What's the deal with you? You're obviously not a native English speaker. In
fact, your English is atrocious. Why are you trying to pass yourself off as an
American living in Maine?
Ron , Since you're tellin' me how atrocious my american is...
and I'm very miffed at ya ne'er-do-well
I wanna you look at these ATROCIOUS-ENGLISH sentences
in several movies..
Therefore...you gotta say all movies and actors yankee
in U.S. aren't native speakers  cuz their American's atrocious as Mine is. even worse.
 
I guessa be thiry-five fo' averyone 'round here listen to ya
 ( Home alone 3 )
whotta I do if there's da tornado
 ( Homa Alone 3 )
Doggoned !!! I'm movin' here getta outta there so fast as ya can o' she's gonna burry ya !!
 ( Twister ) 
Why ain't you find yer own twister, buddo ?!!!! 
( Twister ) 
Alack nope not da rangers, what'll I do ?? What'll I do??! Yo ain't let yer mommy call da rangers!! 
My poor bairn boy gotta eaten by crocodiles
( The rescuers down under ) 
Pardonnez ma'am Bianca, I getta important news. Ya and Bernard have been asked accept a danger' mission to Australia.
( the rescuers down under )
It wouldn't as bad if 'rent wouldn'ta always understimate da amount 
o' t'vision 'n' videos boy my age can devour without turnin' inta mass-murderers
( Boys life ) 
Yo wanna make some arts'n'crafts with TINA ? Whotta ya think 'bout the flawless ringa ding and hoop a loop she's bout make.
( Boys life ) 
Storm o' no storm, Albatross Airlines, at yer service !! Wel' be departing followin' our standard pre-flight maintenance. Thanka !!Yeah, loosen upto, getta blood flowin' upto da head, annnnnd, couple o' these.... 
Oh toots . Tie yer kangaroos down sports fans , here, we, COME! All right we're gonna make it!! I just gotta duck downa little lower, that's all. Go unda wind, go unda it! 
( rescuers down under ) 
Chapa , I hope whotta ya have ain't contagious or I'll be outta business.
( who framed R.R. )
I ain't tellin' ya nothen' Into da bargain ya leggo offa me !! 
( who framed R.R ) 
Gals's gotta shelta her..youse are quantum leap outta protectin' theory
( who framed R.R. )
Eddie me a favor pleeze !! Coulda yo sitta in the back so ya won't 'cuz as much offa commotion ??
( boys life ) 
I getta bairn and h'as a soccer game in tweny minutes. If he's late, he 
doesn't getta trophy. And cuz I'm in here with ya, anythen is, instead of crying bout it, 
 ( boys life ) 
Ya guys doin spell yiz , we doin' early warning incantation. If anything hellgodisha powerful comes within hundred feet offa shop, then screechy siren things will, ya dunno , screech.
( Vampire slayer )
This is my bros I'm lookin' after em while mum's away 
This is unca charlie
Nuthin' doin I ain't noone unca I ain't
Well gonna whizz ..a feller oughta
If Y wanta be useful do somep'n ta amuse em 
Awright..yer swell..but Nope I ain't put track outta there , twas there alla time.
( charlie brown and snoopy show ) 
This is the argue point between us
You only know english..
I do know American...'cuz I live in Aroostok ( ME )
and that's another ball game !!!
Ya dunno american ( Maine ) lingo at all ....
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 you put them together that doesn't work.
This poster, Ondra Garge, is using a web-based newsgroup reader Mailgate.org, so
it hides his origin. That fact, plus the fact the posts are so stupid, the lousy
English, and the lack of imagination are beginning to make me suspect that it is
our troll, Lucio Angelini, Ow Ouch, or whatever nickname of his you choose to
call him.
If so, I guess he's getting so frustrated that nobody gives a damn about him
that he's willing to try to confuse some young kid learning English with
misinformation about "the Maine dialect." By the way, I worry about the troll
and children. You know, he fits part of the profile of a pedophile. Does anyone
have access to police records in his home town to see if he's ever been
arrested? I wonder if you do a web search for "Lucio Angelini + pedophile," how
many entries will you find?
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 arrested? I wonder if you do a web search for "Lucio Angelini +
pedophile,"
Povero cretino, spargifango, sputamerda e nazista. Poiché hai spesso sulla
bocca il temine 'pedofilo', non mi stupirei se, alla fine, si venisse a
sapere che certe tendenze in realtà le nascondi tu.

 Povero cretino, spargifango, sputamerda e nazista.
There's no need to sputter so. Nobody is saying that there is concrete proof
that Lucio Angelini is a pedophile. There is just the suggestion that Lucio
Angelini may fit part of the _profile_ of a pedophile. And it makes sense, in
any community, even an online community, that we investigate a bit of Lucio
Angelini's past to uncover when someone may have caught Lucio Angelini fiddling
with little boys or girls.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 Angelini may fit part of the _profile_ of a pedophile.
C'č, in compenso, la prova del tuo essere un povero cretino spargifango,
sputamerda e nazista.

 sputamerda e nazista.
Who would have thought that a look into the past of our little troll, Lucio
Angelini, would have upset him so much? How do you like those apples?
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 Angelini, would have upset him so much? How do you like those apples?
You'd better look into your own disquieting present...

Iza said: 
We all know the words, dude. Especially Ron, I'm sure. It's the way
you put them together that doesn't work. 
No hard feelings,
Of course , it's the way you put them together.
As a grammar teacher I could say that your messages are correct..
but kinda "perfecty"...
Well...this is exactly what I expected from italian site about english lingo.
But american lingo per se , it's not that pile of perfecty words 
posted as if you were writing a children essay for the 
"Everybody think we're children-O's home-journal"
I'm within an ace of being all-american , I live in the countryside , that's why 
I can't speak clearly and without so much dialect , but that's it
that's the american lingo...
what Ron posted are a tons of perfecty-english messages you would expect from
italian , english yesnaby ,  but ne'er from Yankee..
I'm fairly sure Ron is not Yankee...
Go and see some american movies and check out what real american lingo is....
Now , here's how it's gonna work : 
I'm gonna peruse my message...
This is anything but true...

Well...I'm perusing my errors...
Only if ya know how many errors you might make even though you're english native speaker
well...you're right
I was kinda "drowsy" when I posted this message
well...
Boffins suppused to shown that...
I MEANT
Boffins are supposed to have shown 
God forbid someone else to try to posting..
I MEANT
God forbid someone else would try posting
Into the bargain now wonder when someone would get close with you ( GOSH ) 
I MEANT
Into the bargain no wonder if someone would get close to you ...
Not-realisti- american way 
I MEANT
Not realistic
Well...twas pretty late and...I'm sorry for these errors..
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This poster, Ondra Garge, is using a web-based newsgroup reader Mailgate.org, so
it hides his origin. That fact, plus the fact the posts are so stupid, the lousy
English, and the lack of imagination are beginning to make me suspect that it is
our troll, Lucio Angelini, Ow Ouch, or whatever nickname of his you choose to
call him.
If so, I guess he's getting so frustrated that nobody gives a damn about him
that he's willing to try to confuse some young kid learning English with
misinformation about "the Maine dialect." By the way, I worry about the troll
and children. You know, he fits part of the profile of a pedophile. Does anyone
have access to police records in his home town to see if he's ever been
arrested? I wonder if you do a web search for "Lucio Angelini + pedophile," how
many entries will you find?
Ron...
I dunno Lucio Angelini
Your english is poor..and so perfecty that make me sick.
You're not american at all..and no mistake !!
Bafore take a camo you gotta know 
american folklore and lingo.
As for Maine Dialect...
So..ya ne'er-do-well whotta yo know 'bout Maine ??
You're drivin' me nuts !!! You ignoramus , presumptuous , fake liar..
Your american-english sucks !!!
You're probably the most childish person I've ever 
known and as to my messages your bad vibes 
your fake identity and your pretty nasty angst statement are not long needed . You are truly one miserable person. Just my own personal opinion on your mental state and diatribe against me.
I think what may be filtering into yer opinion is the fact I don't speak or write like you do...
Why couldn't we have a pleasant discussion bout the differences between the Maine dialect'n'folklore and Midwestern dialect without throwing out insults ?
This mighta be interesting as well..
Now..I've got it !!!
Maybe you couldn't get along with me...unless
I do away with my dialect or AMERICAN LINGO..
and this is not an option !!!
See ya moron..


Ron...my liar pal
Since...you're tellin' my english is lousy and I know you're anything
but American...Now I wanna have a bone to pick with yer english..
Yes..your englsh is totally stupid and fake..
now..in order
Here's your last message : 
This poster, Ondra Garge, is using a web-based newsgroup reader Mailgate.org, so
it hides his origin. That fact, plus the fact the posts are so stupid, the lousy
English, and the lack of imagination are beginning to make me suspect that it is
our troll, Lucio Angelini, Ow Ouch, or whatever nickname of his you choose to
call him.
If so, I guess he's getting so frustrated that nobody gives a damn about him
that he's willing to try to confuse some young kid learning English with
misinformation about "the Maine dialect." By the way, I worry about the troll
and children. You know, he fits part of the profile of a pedophile. Does anyone
have access to police records in his home town to see if he's ever been
arrested? I wonder if you do a web search for "Lucio Angelini + pedophile," how
many entries will you find?
well..
it hides his origin 
THIS SENTENCE IS WRONG...
you ought to have written : 
It conceal his own identity
You choose to call him
THIS SENTENCE IS STUPIDLY WRONG AND NOT COMMON..
You name him
he's willing to try to confuse
THIS SENTENCE IS WRONG
he's willing to try confusing
I worry about the troll 
THIS SENTENCE IS WRONG
I'm worry about the troll 
BUT IT'S NOT COMMON IN U.S.
better 
I'm concearn about the troll 
If you do a web search for 
THIS SENTENCE IS NOT COMMON
If you make a web search for 
I guess he's getting so frustrated
THIS SENTENCE IS WRONG
I guess he get really ( that ) frustrated
That nobody gives a damn about him
THIS SENTENCE IS NOT COMMON 
That nobody gives a damn for him
Does anyone have access ?
THIS SENTENCE IS STUPIDLY WRONG
Has anyone access ? / or - Anyone get access ?
Better
have you access ? / or - Do you get access
If he's ever been arrested?
THIS SENTENCE IS WRONG
whether he's ever been arrested ( or not ) 
BUT NOT COMMON ...I'D BETTER SAY
Whether he had been arrested
many entries will you find?
THIS SENTENCE IS WRONG ..ENTRIES MAY NOT BE RELATING WITH FIND
many entries will it turn up ?
Now...Ron what's the deal with you ??!
You can't deny you're not American...
It's clear you're a fake liar who posted a lot of baloneys scrap.
You're lying about lingo as well , arent you ?
You're not american at all....
You have no clue what American lingo is..
and now I'm fairly sure you even dunno english basic lingo...
Are yo kiddin me ?? 
Please...stop it . You're trying to make out with your english in order to conceal your identity
for all you're worth , but believe me..you're squanderin your time..
Now you're facing with a real Yankee..and I can give yerself away when'n'as I like..
Let's face it now....liar 
How dare you tell me my english is atrocious when you're the one who dunno even basic rules ??!!
Now..I'm wondering why..these chaps on mailgate..didn't realize you're such an untruthful person and your english is awesome.
It's borne in on em who you are.
I might have know that you would have been supposed to be in earnest ,  here.
Phooey....
Ya fake liar loser !!!
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Isa said : 
We all know the words, dude. Especially Ron, I'm sure. It's the way
you put them together that doesn't work. 
No hard feelings,
Of course , it's the way you put them together.
As a grammar teacher I could say that your messages are correct..
but kinda "perfecty"...
Well...this is exactly what I expected from italian site about english lingo.
But american lingo per se , it's not that pile of perfecty words 
posted as if you were writing a children essay for the 
"Everybody think we're children-O's home-journal"
I'm almost all-american , I live in the countryside , that's why 
I can't speak clearly and without so much dialect , but that's it
that's the american lingo...
what Ron posted are a tons of perfecty-english messages you would expect from
italian , english maybe but no way from Yankee..
I'm fairly sure Ron is not Yankee...
Go and see some american movies and look at what's the real american lingo..
now , here's how it's gonna work : 








why are you sure Ron know american !!!
Let's face it !! He's a fake liar
He's not american at all...


I wrote : 
I worry about the troll 
THIS SENTENCE IS WRONG
I'm worry about the troll 
BUT IT'S NOT COMMON IN U.S.
better 
I'm concearn about the troll 
SORRY...THIS IS THE QUINTESSENCE OF STUPIDITY
I'M VERY SCREWED UP TODAY !
I meant
I worry about the troll 
THIS SENTENCE IS NOT COMMON IN U.S.
I'm in worry about for ( about ) the troll
BETTER ....
I'm concerned about the troll 
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Isa wrote : 
The conclusion, by the way, is that deferred prepostions are, in general,
best avoided, but there are some circumstances in which they are fine, and
even some in which they are necessary. This contrasts with the received
opinion during the 18th Century, when they were considered to be incorrect
in all circumstances.
I'm sorry but I just can't resist :-)
- Excuse me, where's the library at?
- I'm sorry, but it is not correct to end a sentence with a
preposition.
- Hmm. I see. Where's the library, asshole?
---------------------------------------
Are you kiddin ????!!!!
In basic english lingo...you always have to end the sentence where the defining pronoun is acting as 
indirect object , with a preposition.
Preposition is relocated at the end of the sentence.
This is the basic rule N°23 people who assert to know english lingo gotta know.
So...you always , when you're faced by defining pronoun which acting as indirect object , have got to end your sentence with a preposition : 
Who are you talkin to ?
What are you talkin about ? 
What are you looking for ?
The reason I'm here for
The chair where I sit in 
The movie you told me about 
The friend I share my house with 
The moment you're waiting for
Which jar I have to put the cookies in ?
Where's the place I must arrive at ?
Where I can see the full moon from ?
You could look at in the garden is out to home which
The monkey you're looking at 
The year he was born in 
The hotel they were staying at 
The reason I had accepted his conditions why 
The girl I feel in love with 
ET CETERA
This is what I've been always teaching my pupils..
This is the N°23 basic rule.
The hotel at wich they were staying
The reason why I had accepted his conditions
From where I can see the full moon ?
The movie about which you told me
THESE SENTENCES ARE INTOLERABLE GRAMMAR ERRORS
..
NOW YOU'VE GOT NO EXSCUSE FOR THIS AWFUL ERRORS


 many entries will you find?
Ron, dammi retta, càlmati. Stai diventando (*inutilmente*) molto offensivo e
sgradevole.
--
Ciao
Anna

 sgradevole.
Anna Martini, grazie. Io scherzo bonariamente su quasi tutto, ma ci sono
argomenti talmente tragici (come la pedofilia) sui quali scherzare (anche se
l'intenzione di Ron credo fosse *proprio* quella di offendere) č
assolutamente inopportuno.
--
"Who cares for you!" said Alice, (she had grown to her full size by this
time.) "You're nothing but a pack of cards!"

 assolutamente inopportuno.
Pardon, riformulo: "..talmente tragici CHE scherzare su di essi mi sembra
assolutamente inopportuno" (l'emozione mi ha fatto perdere di vista la
consecutiva)

You know, he fits part of the profile of a pedophile. 
[...]
Ron, please try and get a grip. I don't like trolls, too, but this is
way over the top and not funny in the least. Also, don't forget that
there's plenty more trolls out there-- you don't think we've been
blessed with just one?


but American...
You don't know shit, dude, and you're not even entertaining. Get a
life, away from here if at all possible.
<plonk>


 wrote in message
9h7u8e$cn67o$1...@ID-55125.news.dfncis.de...

Ron, frankly speaking, this seems a case where the old saying
"Never argue with a troll; people watching might not be able to tell the
difference"
applies.
I have no doubt that you can outclass them in their own game, but what would
be the final prize ?
Ciao
Giorgio

 blessed with just one?
I beg your pardon... just four (royal highnesses)


 be the final prize ?
Far capire a chi legge che, accanto ai troll (in genere benintenzionati), ci
sono anche degli assoluti coglioni in malafede come Ron.

but American...
You don't know shit, dude, and you're not even entertaining. Get a
life, away from here if at all possible.
Isa....I wasn't talkin to you !!
I was talking to Ron !!
You're a good chap as for as I'm concerned 
This is just a big mistake.
No problem..
Please...tell me
why did you think you the one I was miffed at ???
have I missed something ??
I gotta check the name the person I wanna talk with ?
Your english is very good Isa....
_____________________________________________________________
Help Yourself - Promote Your Site ---> 
http://www.MainE-Services.com
-- 
Posted from [151.21.180.44] by way of 
sitemail.everyone.net
 [216.200.145.35] 


 I have no doubt that you can outclass them in their own game,
That is an insult!!! ;-)
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 sgradevole.
I have no intention of offending you. In fact, Lucio Angelini's personality does
have some aspects that fit the profile of a pedophile. But as I hope that you
know, I have a great deal of respect for you and some others on this newsgroup,
so most of the time I'll keep these observations to myself.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 blessed with just one?
Whether it is over the top or an accurate observation is irrelevant if it makes
you uncomfortable. Yes, cyberspace is full of trolls, and much worse. Out of
respect for you and others who don't want to think of such things, most of the
time I'll keep such observations to myself.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 have some aspects that fit the profile of a pedophile.
Dai, mandaci una tua foto di profilo, cosě possiamo mostrarla ai nostri
ragazzi e metterli in guardia da te!
Da doo RON RON RON, da doo ron ron
(One day I'm gonna make you mine)

 time I'll keep such observations to myself.
Da doo RON RON RON da doo ron ron
(è clinicamente pazzo)

 time I'll keep such observations to myself.
< I know that political correctness  is very important nowadays and I know
the motherfucking psichopath is in serious need of
a shrink but let me tell you that I share your feelings for the maggotty
crap licking bastard .
I have kept this opinion to myself so far because I was advised to but I am
exhausted now.
They have a saying in Naples  :
I am not going to spit at you because you can't swim .
I think it perfectly applies to our (?) subject.
 Yours
Salvatore

 a shrink
Complimenti per il tuo nick, Pappagone. Dona da pazzi al tuo acume. (Da doo
RON RON RON, da doo RON RON).

 a shrink but let me tell you that I share your feelings for the maggotty
With me, they are observations, not feelings. Really, there is no reason to
allow emotions to come into it. Think about this guy's life. We have a phrase in
the US to describe such a type--"born loser." And the thing about born losers is
that they always lose in life. Can you imagine how much disrespect he receives
in person from those around him? Maybe he can create a different reality for
himself here.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 that they always lose in life.
One day I'll win you, Ron, I promise. One day I'm gonna make you mine, Ron.
Da doo RON RON RON, da doo ron ron.

 preposition.
Yes it is, when it's idiom. :-))) if I read a "to whom" or
preposition in it's old fashioned place, I imagine it in an old posh
pommie accent, so really that way of speaking is a dialect. <hehe>
:-))))))
"Despite an old rule, it is quite idiomatic and acceptable today to
place a preposition at the end of a sentence. To do so is often
better than to rearrange the sentence in an awkward and unnatural
way. For example, "I met the people with whom I used to live" sounds
better with the preopsition at the end: I met the people I used to
live with."
"Sometimes the preposition at the end may sound clumsy; and you
should then use another construction: these are the dresses she is
the designer of is better expressed as These are the dreeses she
designed." (HTWSB p46)
For clumsy prepositions see those posted by OG for prime, or is that
execrable, examples. 
Cheers,
Loki

 meglio che sei americano...
You mean only what script writers put down for Hollywood actors to
say is proper American English??? Sheesh, give me a break.!!
No American I've ever met sounds like a bad script from a B movie as
you do.

 If you make a web search for 
Wrong again... <sigh> ... One doesn't make a web search, one may do a
search whether on the web or the surrounding countryside. One can
also make a search of an area but to do a search is fine too.
[snip other drivel]
Are you for real? More like a caricature. Your English is so bad, I
fervently hope no second language speakers are paying any attention
to your claims to knowledge. 
Loki

 to your claims to knowledge. 
Don't worry, his sentences were so overtly ill-formed that hardly could
anyone take his remarks seriously. (Er, not sure *my* sentence is
well-formed, though.)
Max

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[snip other drivel]
Are you for real? More like a caricature. Your English is so bad, I
fervently hope no second language speakers are paying any attention
to your claims to knowledge. 
Loki
Since Iive in U.S. I may make mistakes..
but as you could see I sorted my sentences out.
I was distracted as I wrote these...
Also..I'm grammar teacher and I know grammar better than you do.
You dunno american lingo at all.
But also you dunno basic grammar rules.
I feel sick now...that's why I have no clue what I'm writing about.
Please....now you tow are becoming my pains in the ass..
You choose to call him
THIS SENTENCE IS WRONG .....NO MISTAKE
You should have written : 
YOU NAME HIM ...
PLEASE DON'T TELL ABOUT U.S. LINGO...
I'm american..
You're so ignoramus about english and American lingo.
I can't stand you moron any longer..
Here how it's gonna work : 
when I'll get better I'll have a talk with you.
Of course you're right about my bad english on last message
but I'm seriously sick right now even tho it's summer.
So you must forgive me for my several errors
My head's killing me
see ya 

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[snip other drivel]
Are you for real? More like a caricature. Your English is so bad, I
fervently hope no second language speakers are paying any attention
to your claims to knowledge. 
Loki
Since I Iive in U.S. I may make mistakes..
but as you could see I sorted my sentences out.
I was distracted and sick when I wrote these...
Also..I'm grammar teacher and I know grammar better than you do.
You dunno american lingo at all.
But also you dunno basic grammar rules.
I feel sick now...that's why I have no clue what I'm writing about.
Please....now you tow are becoming my pains in the ass..
You choose to call him
THIS SENTENCE IS WRONG .....NO MISTAKE
You should have written : 
YOU NAME HIM ...
Of course you're right about my bad english on last message
but I'm seriously sick right now even tho it's summer.
So you must forgive me for my several errors.
Also, please DON'T TELL ME ABOUT U.S. 
I've been actually living in Maine for almost 10 years
You're italian or whatever..
How could you possibly dare tell me about U.S. when you live across the globe?! 
Have you ever seen the Tree Pine State ???
Ever been to Acadia , Piscataquin , Aroostok , Portland ???
If you had, you'd see the majority of people of all ages and walks of life 
speaking the Yankee lingo you have no idea about.
But you insist my english is BAD.
Try traveling sometime before pesterin me with your ignorance !!!
I'm american..
Please don't tell me about my country. 
You have never lived here, and you have no clue as to what you're talking about.
You're such an ignoramus as for concern about english and American lingo.
Yet you insist that my english sucks.
All right , but it's hard to argue with ignorance.
I can't stand you moron any longer..
I no longer have any desire to argue with you and Ron.
I've been trying to explain you who I am 
and even I can make mistakes , however I live on Maine's farm ,
especially when I'm sick and suffering as hell.
So take your bad vibes outta here !!
Here how it's gonna work : 
when I'll get better I'll have a talk with you.
Yes...believe it or not I gonna take a stab at 
civilized conversation with you 
even tho I'm kinda miffed at you.
See ya
_____________________________________________________________
Help Yourself - Promote Your Site ---> 
http://www.MainE-Services.com
-- 
Posted from [151.21.181.220] by way of 
sitemail.everyone.net
 [216.200.145.35] 


Loki loco wrote : 
"Despite an old rule, it is quite idiomatic and acceptable today to
place a preposition at the end of a sentence. To do so is often
better than to rearrange the sentence in an awkward and unnatural
way. For example, "I met the people with whom I used to live" sounds
better with the preopsition at the end: I met the people I used to
live with."
"Sometimes the preposition at the end may sound clumsy; and you
should then use another construction: these are the dresses she is
the designer of is better expressed as These are the dreeses she
designed." (HTWSB p46)
For clumsy prepositions see those posted by OG for prime, or is that
execrable, examples. 
Cheers,
Loki
----------------------------------------------
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
NOW YOU'VE GOT NO EXCUSE FOR THESE AWFUL ERRORS


 I have no intention of offending you.
Of course, I know you don't.
It's not that I don't *want to hear* about such things (even if I would very
much prefer to live in a world where you *don't have to* hear and think of
such things). But I believe that, even if it was true that <<L.A.'s
personality does have some aspects that fit the profile of a pedophile>> (and
I don't know if it is), this wouldn't be enough to start a witch-hunt. I also
must say that I agree with our... ahem... "official troll" when he says that
this is too tragic a subject to trifle with [1].
And now don't tell me my personality does have some aspects that fit the
profile of a trollphile :-))
--
Ciao
Anna
[1] Ending with a preposition, I know, I know...

 I don't know if it is
NON esiste alcun credibile 'profilo' di pedofilo rispetto a cui comparare
chicchessia. Il più (apparentemente) mite vicino di casa potrebbe essere il
più spietato seviziatore di bambini. Chi sa nulla dello stesso Ron, se per
questo? Potrebbe nascondere dei lati spaventosi. Il solo fatto che tiri
continuamente fuori questa storia della pedofilia potrebbe essere
interpretato come un indizio... se si adottasse la sua ottica. Trovo il
comportamento di Ron (e di tutti quelli che lo spalleggiano bonariamente
anche quando ECCEDE) assolutamente grave e deprecabile. Rispetto alla
pesantezza di certe sue uscite, i miei 'scherzi' sono acqua di rose. Ma,
come ho già detto un'altra volta, in questo ng si preferisce infilzare le
pagliuzze piuttosto che vedere le travi. Tu sei stata la sola eccezione.
Quanto a Ron, l'ho già perdonato, COME SEMPRE. Noi buoni siamo fatti così.
Ciao

 [1] Ending with a preposition, I know, I know...
I don't think there's anything wrong with that in many cases. It depends on the
sentence and the situation.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 If you've noticed, I only criticize those deserving criticism.
Come diceva quel Tale, vedi le pagliuzze negli occhi degli altri, ma non le
travi che accecano i tuoi.


well-formed, though.)
I'd go for "that hardly anyone could..." :-)
However, Ours Truly's are so bad I can hardly *read* them, let alone
make sense of them.


 Il minimo che ti potesse succedere il č successo.
Scusa, che CAZZO c'entra la PEDOFILIA con la mia vera o presunta flippancy?
Perché dovrebbe essere quel genere di accuse il MINIMO che potesse
accadermi? Ma quanto COGLIONE sei? E quanto piů simpatico di me credi di
essere? Vaffanculo, stronzo.

 I'd go for "that hardly anyone could..." :-)
Ecco, infatti era quello il frammento di cui non ero sicuro.
Credevo che 'hardly' (come anche 'barely', 'not only', e altri avverbi di
senso negativo) se collocato prima del soggetto determinasse sempre
l'inversione soggetto-ausiliare. So che a volte accade. Ad esempio, penso
che questa frase sia corretta:
  Hardly could he have imagined that... etc...
A questo punto però mi chiedo se questa inversione sia obbligatoria o no,
oppure lo sia soltanto in alcuni casi.
Could you (or anybody else) shed some light on this issue?
Max

 essere? Vaffanculo, stronzo.
Hai anche battuto i pugnetti sul tavolo?
P.

 Could you (or anybody else) shed some light on this issue?
It is certainly not obligatory. It is more a question of stress on certain words
and style.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 Hai anche battuto i pugnetti sul tavolo?
E tu si sei fatto il bidč al capino, dopo aver detto le tue stronzate?


 essere? Vaffanculo, stronzo.
Mi consenta, Conte Angelini: si Contenga.
saluti,
Peltio
[1] E non mi fare un post che riporti le dichiarazioni di altri membri del
NG che condividono il tuo punto di vista. Perchè sono gli stessi che
ritengno che tu la debba piantare di fare lo stronzo [2].
[2] Hai anche ripreso a fare morphing e, sospetto, a farlo utilizzando
account differenti. Al momento non ho molto tempo da dedicarti, ma ti
consiglio di abbandonare questa tecnica di cambiare nome: se devo tirare
fuori SamSpade lo faccio per avere la tua pelle telematica. E ne ho già in
mano metà.
E questa non è una minaccia, è una dichiarazione di intenti, caro il mio
martiruccio.

 Tu lo sai e ci sguazzi.
My dear clever friend, don't underestimate me. ;-)
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 un dato argomento non si deve scherzare [1]
Amore, io ho messo al mondo due figli, che hanno avuto la fortuna di NON
incappare in certe devastanti esperienze. Ciò non toglie che quando leggo
sui giornali di come altri innocenti non siano stati *altrettanto
fortunati*,  impazzisco letteralmente d'orrore. Se a te sembra un argomento
su cui valga la pena scherzare, ciò significa che sei immaturo e cretino
almeno quanto Ron.

 E tu si sei fatto il bidč al capino, dopo aver detto le tue stronzate?
Hai anche pestato i piedini sul pavimento? Non si fa. No. Poi la mamma ti dą
le totņ e ti viene la bua. E i bambini che frignano sono proprio antipatici.
P.

 le totò e ti viene la bua.
Torna nelle tue turbinose fogne, trombone.

 su cui valga la pena scherzare,
Io non ho espresso alcun parere a riguardo né intendo farlo, perlomeno in
questa sede.
E se speri che fare dire a qualcuno che l'acqua è bagnata costituisca un
avallo al tuo comportamento da idiota qui dentro ti sbagli di grosso. Quello
che è successo, e te lo ripeto, è che qualcuno ha rotto degli schemi
precostituiti - come hai fatto tu qui dentro [1] - e che tu ti sei lamentato
come un vecchio trombone incartapecorito dimostrando di non avere ironia
laddove chi ha rotto gli schemi ritiene di averne.
Ti ricordi quando ti si diceva che la tua ironia non era gradita?
Beh, ora sei tu a dire che l'ironia di Ron non è gradita.
Come dici? Non è ironia quella di Ron?
Beh, anche per me il tuo disturbare il NG non è ironia.
Benvenuto nel club dei vecchi tromboni ammuffiti.
<grin>
Saluti,
mamma Peltio
che chiude il terzo ciclo di lezioncine, qui dentro.
[1] Noi "svolazzavamo di fiore in fiore" prima che tu venissi a 'rallegrare'
l'ambiente con la tua simpatica ironia e ci destassi dal torpore
dell'ipocrisia dell'Illuminato Reame. E noi che credevamo fosse tutto
vero...

 Ti ricordi quando ti si diceva che la tua ironia non era gradita?
A nome di chi parli, scusa? Delle quattro carampane e della corte tutta? Who
cares for you, I say. You are nothin but a pack of cards, in my eyes!'
Nemmeno a me piacciono le tue stronzate, e preferirei senz'altro che non
frequentassi questo ng. Ma non sono così trombone da pretendere che le mie
personali idiosincrasie siano legge. Vivi e lascia vivere, dunque. Piantala
di andare a caccia di scalpi e 'pelli' telematiche (come dicevi ieri) e
cerca di riconoscere gli stessi tuoi diritti anche a quelli che non ti
piacciono. Ti ripudio come mamma. La realtà è che sei un bambinone ancora
tutto da svezzare.