Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: "which kinda job are you looking for"?

I was talking to an american friend of mine who wants to look
for a new job, so I asked her "Which kinda job are you looking for?" and
(after answering my question) she told me I made a mistake because I should
have said "What kinda job are you looking for", while my sentence didn't
make any sense.
I trust her, but I'd like to know why.
Can you guys help me out?
thanks in advance.
Francesco

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Presumably you know how "what" and "which" are used, don't you? The latter
is (usually?) used of a limited number of items within the category that is
mentioned (which may well be limited in itself).
Bye, FB
-- 
If you knock on my door and I call out "Who is it?", you, as a normal
person, knowing that I would recognize your voice, would say "It's me". If
you said "It is I", I would not be nearly so inclined to let you in.
(Geoffrey K. Pullum - 
http://snipurl.com/bhtu
)

 mentioned (which may well be limited in itself).
thank you

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Ecco, interessante questo. Scusate ma io sono principiante e non ho ancora
capito bene. La mia grammatica (Oxford, a practical English grammar) mi
spiega che which si usa quando la scelta e' ristretta (when choice is
restricted) e fa i seguenti esempi (con which as object):
- Which do you like best ? I like Tom best
- Which university did  he go to ? He went to Oxford.
Ovviamente nel primo si sceglieva fra una serie di amici, e nel secondo
fra una serie di universita'.
Ebbene, proprio per questo io avrei fatto il medesimo errore di Francesco.
Fra i lavori disponibili (scelta ristretta) quale stai cercando di fare ?
Which kinda job are you looking for ?
Quindi non ho capito bene l'errore ...
ciao

 Fra i lavori disponibili (scelta ristretta) quale stai cercando di fare ?
Fra tutti i lavori esistenti.
[...]
Ciao, FB
-- 
"Golden orb... The golden orb... The golden orb..."
(Cold Comfort Farm, the film)

 Fra tutti i lavori esistenti.
si, hai ragione, ma e' molto simile comunque a "fra tutte le universita'
esistenti" dell'esempio in grammatica.
- Which university did  he go to ? He went to Oxford.
Cioe' non mi e' ancora chiarissimo.
Pero' evidentemente bisogna arrendersi al fatto che la scelta lavorativa
e' considerata molto piu' amplia di quella universitaria (anche se
oggigiorno forse non e' piu' vero, potresti anche avere la scelta estera). 

 Cioe' non mi e' ancora chiarissimo.
Swan è più chiaro:
QUOTE ("Practical English Usage", M. Swan, OUP)
*1 /which/ and /what/: the difference*
/Which/ and /what/ are often both possible, with little difference of
meaning.
*Which/What* is the hottest city in the world?
*Which/What* train did you come on?
UNQUOTE
Beh, "which train" perché si prendono in considerazione i treni che
raggiungono la tale città, no? Non è che uno possa arrivare a Londra con un
treno che parte da Tokyo, mi pare.
QUOTE
*Which/what people have influenced you most in your life?
/Which/ is preferred when the speaker has a limited number of choices in
mind.
/we've got white or brown bread. *Which* will you have?
   (More nathral than /... What will you have?/)
/ *Which* size do you want -- small, medium or large?/
When the speaker is not thinking of a limited number of choices, /what/ is
used.
/ *What* language do they speak in Greenland?/
   (More natural than /Which language .../)
/ *What*'s your phone number (NOT / *Which* is your phone number?/)
UNQUOTE
Il manuale prosegue dicendo che la stessa cosa vale, fino a un certo punto,
vale per le persone. Se proprio devo, trascrivo. 
Io me la son sempre cavata con la regola del limitato/illimitato, e la
pratica non me l'ha mai fatta mettere in dubbio.
[...]
Ciao, FB
-- 
Emily: "I'm going to Europe and I'm going to have a marvellous time. I'm
going to get up at ten and have two glasses of wine at lunch every single
day."
Richard: "Only prostitutes have two glasses of wine at lunch!"
(Gilmore Girls, 501)

 Practical English Usage
si, decisamente piu' chiaro del Thomson Martinet sul punto.
Grazie mille !

 - Which university did  he go to ? He went to Oxford.
In the first case , 'which' is a pronoun ; this sentence couldn't make sense 
unless a specific goup of people had just been mentioned , to which 'which' 
refers . In the second case , it is of course possible that a number of 
universities have been referred to  , in which case 'which' is obligatory ; 
however , that certainly need not be the case :
A - Tom's a graduate , you know .  B - Oh, yes ? Which university did he go 
to?
But 'what' is at least as likely in this sentence . The number of friends 
(assuming that's what was referred to) or universities is quite immaterial 
.('There are untold billions of stars in the universe . *Which* is the 
brightest ?')
'If you had a free choice , which job would you most like to do ?'  is 
perfectly possible (as is 'what job') without having previously specified 
any range of jobs ; yet the number of jobs possible is clearly larger than 
the number of kinds of jobs ;  yet 'What kind of job are you looking for?' 
is clearly correct (not 'which') .
In short , if 'which' refers back to a specified set of items , then it's 
correct ; 'what' isn't used like that . If that's not the case , then very 
often either 'which' or 'what' can be used ; but sometimes , as a matter of 
usage which cannot be explained by rules , only one of them is correct  . 
Though it's probably more complicated than that .
Mike

 - Which university did  he go to ? He went to Oxford.
Is Tom a cat, a dog or another animal given that name?
If Tom is a person and "Oxford, a practical grammer" gives you that
example, I'd recommend that you throw out that book immediately.
-- 
Xakero

 example, I'd recommend that you throw out that book immediately.
Me lo sono pure comprato il Thomson/Martinet .... Almeno me lo
fossi scaricato da emule ... :(
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0194313425/ref=lpr_g_2/103-9564761-9683040?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

 example, I'd recommend that you throw out that book immediately.
Why? "Which" can be used of people at certain conditions.
Bye, FB
-- 
"It sounds appalling!"
"Interesting and appalling. The others just sound appalling!"


 Why? "Which" can be used of people at certain conditions.
By the way, Pip, I can't find those sentences on my copy of PEG. What page
did you find them on?
Bye, FB
-- 
Mrs. Palmer, in her way, was equally angry. 'She was determined to drop his
acquaintance immediately, and she was very thankful that she had never been
acquainted with him at all'. (Jane Austen)

 By the way, Pip, I can't find those sentences on my copy of PEG.
in my copy
-- 
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - 
http://www.Mailgate.ORG

 in my copy
I never can get it right (I always write "on my dictionary")! Oddly enough,
in Italian I'd say "nella mia copia di...".
By the way, I guess "Which page did you find them on?" would have done as
well, because Pip couldn't say 1004, since there's no such page in that
book. Right?
Ciao, FB
-- 
"Hey, Mr. Gilmore. Best wish... Congrat... Nice suit!"
(Gilmore Girls - 513)

 book. Right?
1004?


 1004?
On page 1004, or 789, or 985, or... He couldn't say whatever number he
might think of, since "Practical English Grammar" has a limited number of
pages, so I guess either "Which page... ?" or "What page... ?" would do.
I'm not sure, though.
Bye, FB
-- 
"I saw something nasty in the woodshed!"


 did you find them on?
Chapter 5, 31 C 
pag, 32 
Thomson Martinet, A Practical English Grammar, Third Edition

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I can't find them in the fourth edition (apart from the fact that chapter 6
is the one about "what", "which" and "who" now). Perhaps the authors
realized they were confusing. (smiling face)
Bye, FB
-- 
After a year of speculation, inventor Dean Kamen unveiled his mysterious
"It", which is a battery-powered two-wheel people mover. Many believe it
will completely revolutionize the way people get hit by cars.
(Saturday Night Live)

 
Se puo' essere utile il cap. V ha titolo:
"Interrogative adjectives, pronouns and adverbs
il 31 e' il primo paragrafo e gli esempi sono alla sezione C  (which, in
bold), preceduta dalla seziona B (What, in bold).

 any range of jobs ;
And you cannot tell why, can you?
[...]
Bye, FB
-- 
L'importante è che risplenda tu, sola primadonna e immarcescibile leggenda
del tuo pianerottolo.
(Lucangel su it.cultura.libri)

 Does the native speaker think of two or more than two ways?
"Which day..." seems awful. "What way is the wind blowing?"
seems... hmm. not great, but not too bad.
"Which famous explorer discovered Lake Wossname?"
"For which values of x does the function sin(x^3/sin(x^3)) have a local
maximum?"
(where the possible answers are are uncountably infinite in number)
However.. "What is the smallest number of oojamaflips which
cannot be purchased if they are only available in packets of
6 and 11?"
"What is your name?"
"What is your favourite colour?"


Giò
.....................................................
Vides ut alta stet nive candidum
Soracte nec iam sustineant onus
silvae laborantes geluque
flumina constiterint acuto?
(Orazio - Odi I, 9)
.....................................................
"Ancora non riesco a capire come gli sia venuta in mente"
(Richard Feynman)
.....................................................

 Why? "Which" can be used of people at certain conditions.
Yes, but I don't see the condition given here. And I doubt that the Oxford
book used "which". And I do hope it did not use "who".
-- 
Xakero

 you find them?", and I still can't say why.
I would only say "which page...?", never "what page...?", but I have no
idea of the grammatical explanation.
Maybe because there's a finite number of pages in the book?
-- 
Mary

 I'm not sure, though.
I'd say "what", but I can't say why. And I'd have said "On what page did
you find them?", and I still can't say why.
-- 
Xakero

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
Perhaps "what" because the number of pages is unknown, at least at the time
the question is asked? I really don't know, and the grammar books don't
help much, do they?
-- 
Xakero

 And you cannot tell why, can you?
No ; except that it follows my general guideline , which is that a reference 
back to a previously specified set of options requires 'which' ; otherwise 
in most cases both 'which' and 'what' are possible .
Mike 


'in what way' !
Mike 

 well,
Yes , I'd say either is possible .
Mike 

 help much, do they?
Talking about grammar books:
http://snipurl.com/eyq3
 (46.2 kB, PDF file)
Source: John Eastwood, Oxford Guide to English Grammar, 1995, Section 26
For what it may be worth.
-- 
Xakero
P.S. I give the file size in parentheses in case somebody with a slow
connection does not wish to download it.
Extract from that page:
We use what when there is an indefinite (and often large) number of
possible answers. We use which when there is a definite (and often small)
number of possible answers. What relates to the indefinite word a, and
which to the definite word the.
For FB: On that page, there is also an example of "which" used for people.

 or something like that?
As so often, I guess, it is a question of context.
Do you see those men over there? Which one do you like best? ("Which do you
like best?" sounds wrong, and probably is so)
You know Tom, Dick and Harry over there. Whom do you like best? (Colloquial
British and American: Who do you like best?) Certainly not "Which do you
like best?" but again, as an alternative, correctly "Which one do you like
best?", in which case "one" is assumed to substitute for "man" or "person".
And that's the way I see it.
-- 
Xakero


I'm not sure even finiteness is it:
At which values of x does f(x) have a local maximum?
The possible values here are, say, all real numbers,
which are uncountably infinite.

 which are uncountably infinite.
What about "At what values... ?".
Bye, FB
-- 
Locked from the inside. That can only mean one thing, and I don't know what
it is.
(Murder by Death)

 Maybe because there's a finite number of pages in the book?
That's what I meant. And yet, I wrote "what", for the same reason as Xakero
would.
Bye, FB
-- 
«"Plano su di lei come un paradiseo imbottito di Taurus... Faccio guizzare
la lingua come un pitone ubriaco". Prendo questo libro, lo butto nel
cestino.»
(Recensione di Antonio D'Orrico sul Corriere della Sera Magazine)

 What about "At what values... ?".
I don't think so, no.
And yet, as I said in an earlier messages, it's definitely
"What is the smallest n such that (whatever)?"
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'in what way' !
ecchei.


And that's the way I see it.
Then it's just the way it is. (cit).
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