Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Per Franco... simil Wittgenstein

Liebe franco, Schau mal was ich auf alt.usage.german gefunden habe....
"Der Weg, den man beschreiten kann, ist nicht der rechte Weg.
Der Name, den man benennen kann, ist nicht der wahre Name."
Leider wurde der Name des Authors nicht bezeichnet.
Es ist interessant zu merken, wie 'abstrakte' die Deutschen Gesmäcke sind.
Wunderbar!
trad.:
Caro franco, guarda un po' che ho trovato su alt.usage.german...
"La strada che si può segnare, non è la strada giusta.
Il nome che si può nominare, non è il nome vero."
Purtroppo non era indicato il nome dell'autore.
E' interessante notare come sono 'astratti' i gusti dei tedeschi!
Fantastico!
Although English and German belong to the same rooth, and both are so
distant from our own culture, I must confess that I find a bigger gap
between Germans and English than between Germans and us. And... viceversa
(how do you say viceversa in English?)
English culture is so 'pragmatic', it has nothing to do with the German one.
Just think, for example, of the Novels and essays of the eighteenth century
in both countries.
And the common rooth of the language is a kinda disguise for those who start
to learn both the languages.
Don't you find?
Lady Macbeth in procinto di partire per Berlino, ma sempre missing Ireland.
Have a good weekend everybody!
"Del resto, questo è lo
spirito della new economy: riuscire a mettere in vendita quello che
appartiene a tutti. E finalmente, gli italiani capiranno perché ci
chiamiamo casa delle Libertà: perché le vendiamo."

 to learn both the languages.
As an English native speaker I found German easier to learn than Italian.
Except, of course, for those der, die, das, den, tables. However, I didn't stick
with my German studies.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 Do you mean "root?"
Ehm... How do you say "che figuraccia" in  English ;-)?
Sometimes it seems to me "to be loosing myself into a glass of water";-))

 Sometimes it seems to me "to be loosing myself into a glass of water";-))
You could say: What a bad impression! But that's really not the case. If I have
the guts to demonstrate my intermediate Italian here, you shouldn't be shy with
your advanced English. Although, I am trying to imagine what it's like to be
loose in any body of water, let alone a glass of it. Would that be without a
paddle? Tell me now, are you really lost? Just don't lose your sense of humor
about it. If anyone needs to tighten his foreign language skills, it's me.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

How do you say "che figuraccia" in  English ;-)?
----------------------------------------
I made a fool out of myself !!!
How poor !!!
Cut a poor figure !!
How poor of me !!!
How badly I disgraced myself !!!
I behaved like a burk !!
I played the fool !!
How sorely I played !!
How awkward !!
Geez !! 
I can's stand !!!
Not me !!
COSA RON DICE : 
What a bad impression !!!
Non ha significato : CHE BRUTTA FIGURA !!!
in U.S. nesuno dice WHAT A BAD IMPRESSION
Puoi credere in cosa ho scrito io .. oppure LUI 
MA CONTROLA E POTRAI SAPERE IO HO RAGIONE
PROVA !!! Vai dentro chat ( napster forse )
E PARLA CON AMERICANO...
POI DEVI DIRE 
( WHAT A BAD IMPRESSION !! ) 
POI VIENI QUI...E DICI SE LUI A CAPITO.....
Ascolta cosa Ron dice..
E VERAMENTE 
You're gonna make a fool out of yourself !!
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 I made a fool out of myself !!!
Ciao Lucio Angellini, il nostro troll per sempre (che usa molti soprannomi,
anche Ow Ouch, Truman, Flash Harry, Cock A Doodle Do, Mario Ritornello, Noblesse
O'Blige, Deborah, Ron Ron, and alcuni altri).
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 However, I didn't stick with my German studies.
That's interesting, I found Italian so much easier than German and
was able to guesstimate meaning far more easily because of the Latin
derivation of words in English. 
 And a common error I noticed in Italy was for  the English 'w' to be
pronounced like an English 'v' or German 'w'. Perhaps led astray by
the idea English has a Germanic root. (...and French, and Latin and
Old Norse etc...) :-)
Cheers,
Loki
-- 
 


Neanch'io conosco l'autore delle citazioni che hai trovato, e che mi
ricordano la chiusa del nome della rosa, nomina nuda tenemus. Per quanto
riguarda la differenza fra cultura germanica ed inglese, a sentimento
sono d'accordo con te. A sentimento perche' in realta` non conosco la
cultura tedesca, e la cultura inglese e` cosi` variegata che diventa
difficile definire che cosa sia. Indubbiamente, almeno in us, e`
decisamente piu` pragmatica di quella italiana (e molto probabilmente di
quella tedesca). 
Essendo in una universita` tecnica sia in italia che in us, questa
differenza e` striking.
Per le differenze fra le due lingue e` vero, una radice comune potrebbe
far passare inosservate certe differenze. Anche se poi l'evoluzione (e
anche la nascita) delle due lingue e` stato completamente diverso.
Quando Lutero ha "inventato" a tavolino il tedesco, ha fatto il calco di
molte parole latine quando non aveva a disposizione una parola tedesca
(Entscheidung, Entwicklung sono le prime che mi vengono in mente). 
L'inglese, specie nei lessici tecnici, ha preso pesantemente dal latino,
mentre il tedesco ha tradotto o calcato piu` spesso, per non parlare poi
della struttura grammaticale :-). 
Ciao, grazie!
-- 
Franco
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
(L. Wittgenstein)

 preferito è tirarmi la zappa sui piedi!
Scusi, se io fosse troppo sottile. Intendevo dire a te che si dice "losing
myself," non si dice "loosing myself." "Loose" ha un altro significato.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 meant with the story of roots and devices;-))
"To master a language" is a common phrase. You might have said:
I suppose it's related to not having mastered yet another foreign language I'm
studying. (At least that's my interpretation, changing as few words as possible,
of what I think you're trying to say.)
The real point that I'd like to make is that your use of the verb "to depend,"
although technically appropriate by definition, would be usual for a(n)
(articulate) native speaker. That's probably because the "contingent upon"
meaning of this verb is usually associated with an upcoming event. If you had
said "is dependent on" that would sound better but would still leave an
expectation hanging. This, however, is a subtle point so I wouldn't worry about
it if I were you.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

I guess I should start paying you for my daily English lessons;-))
Thanxxxx!!!
Ron wrote in message:
