Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Sì  o no ?

E' sě o no errore gravissimo dire  "less books " al posto di  fewer books ?
Yours
Sal

 Sal
This is one of my pet peeves (pet peeve = a thing I really detest) but 
unfortunately here in the states, practically no one realizes it; you'll 
hear it all the time.
I will go on record as saying "Yes, it's an errore gravissimo." If you 
can make the distinction and use "fewer" for multiple and separable 
objects, please do so.
In the grocery stores the signs *always* say "This Aisle: 10 items or 
less." AAARRRGGGGHHH!
(But I understand sometimes it's a matter of efficiency or brevity. 
Still, I hate it.)
-- 
I am Joey's Cat
Un-not my address, too, if you wanna reply.

 E' sě o no errore gravissimo dire  "less books " al posto di  fewer books ?
Swan, con somma gioia di G.B., non lo condanna fermamente, anche se segnala
che da alcuni č visto come errato. Secondo me non puň essere considerato
sbagliato, perché si usa e perché non mi farebbe schifo se l'inglese
diventasse un poco piů semplice.
Ciao, FB
-- 
Mrs. Palmer, in her way, was equally angry. 'She was determined to drop his
acquaintance immediately, and she was very thankful that she had never been
acquainted with him at all'.


Piu' semplice di cosi'?  Ragazzo mio,  che pretese hai!
GFC

 segnala che da alcuni è visto come errato.
In realtà, a me piace moltissimo "fewer". Solo che non mi riesce mai usarlo
perché sono troppo influenzato negativamente dalla massa.
-- 
Giovanni Bajo

 Piu' semplice di cosi'?  Ragazzo mio,  che pretese hai!
Naa. Io adoro l'inglese, ma semplice semplice non è.
Ciao, FB
-- 
"Gli americani sono ignoranti per loro stessa natura"
that is "The Americans are naturally ignorant"
(Paolo Bonardi on it.cultura.linguistica)

 Sal
This is one of my pet peeves (pet peeve = a thing I really detest) but
unfortunately here in the states, practically no one realizes it; you'll
hear it all the time.
I will go on record as saying "Yes, it's an errore gravissimo." If you
can make the distinction and use "fewer" for multiple and separable
objects, please do so.
In the grocery stores the signs *always* say "This Aisle: 10 items or
less." AAARRRGGGGHHH!
(But I understand sometimes it's a matter of efficiency or brevity.
Still, I hate it.)
Totally agree . The distinction is losing ground here in the UK too ; some
changes in usage you can accept readily enough , but this an instance where
misuse really does still irritate quite a few of us .
Mike

 objects, please do so.
Could you give an example of multiple, inseparable objects, for which, I
gather, "fewer" isn't correct?
Bye, FB


 gather, "fewer" isn't correct?
 > Voleva dire non numerabili :
   Milk , cheese , wine , love , hate and so on
Yours
Sal

gather, "fewer" isn't correct?
Well, if you argue that "less" is never correct for plurals, you're
forced to say some odd things such as "This is fewer than ten miles
away" and "I have fewer than 200 pounds left". I'm not sure if this is
what is meant by "multiple, inseparable objects". In any event, I'd
say "less than ten miles" and "I have less than 200 pounds"
-- 
Adam Atkinson (
gh...@mistral.co.uk
)
Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

 say "less than ten miles" and "I have less than 200 pounds"
Perhaps "ten miles" is a distance and "200 pounds" a sum of money (I admit
this sentence may sound idiotic). They're both considered as amounts,
rather than a set of units ("set of units"?). Now I see what Joey('s cat)
meant.
Bye, FB
-- 
L'importante è che risplenda tu, sola primadonna e immarcescibile leggenda
del tuo pianerottolo.
Lucangel

 hear it all the time.
Michael, could fix your newsreader so it quotes properly?
-- 
Mary

 
Yes, I suppose it does get confusing, and that lends to the misuse.
FB: I should have said "multiple *and* separable" objects, meaning both 
qualities. I can't think of any multiple inseparable objects. Except for 
James and Kamilla. :)
And Adam: I, too, would say "less than ten miles" and "less than 200 
pounds (or dollars)" but those are examples of qualified, specific, 
(and still single) quantities: the quantity of miles is ten; the quantity 
of pounds is 200.
Would you say "I have less pounds today than yesterday?"
My argument is really against the use of unqualified phrases like:
He has less friends than I. 
I took less photographs than I intended.
There are less people here than before.
"I have fewer dollars than yesterday." isn't very common because one 
would normally say "I have less money than yesterday" but still it is 
correct and if one were specifying denominations, "I have fewer tens and 
twenties..." is much more pleasing than "I have less tens and 
twenties..."


twenties..."
I don't recall the examples, but I read an article about how the
"say fewer instead of less" thing was not as valid as one might think.
I'm not sure that "10 items or less" is so bad. "Less than 10 items"
sounds bad, but my teeth don't react to "10 items or less" for some
reason.
-- 
Adam Atkinson (
gh...@mistral.co.uk
)
Man is a giddy thing, and this is my conclusion.
(Much Ado About Nothing)

 
Perhaps a trip to the dentist...? :)


Perhaps a trip to the dentist...? :)
Maybe. "less items" sound awful, but "less than 10 items" doesn't
sound nearly as bad. I'm not really sure "fewer than 10 items" is as
necessary as "fewer items" is.
"I have fewer friends than I did 10 years ago" sounds obviously better
than "I have less friends than .." but I'm not so sure that "I have
less than 10 friends" is so different from "I have less than 200
pounds". I'd most likely _say_ "I have fewer than 10 friends", as it
happens. I should look this up in Swan, Fowler, or similar.
-- 
Adam Atkinson (
gh...@mistral.co.uk
)
Volemo er verde!

 pounds". 
 
It isn't all that different to most people. I guess my teeth are just bit 
more sensitive. For some reason "I have less than 10 friends" isn't 
*awful* to my ear (or my teeth), and as I said, "less than 200 pounds" 
isn't a problem, but that's because of it being a sum of something 
(money, in this case).
I know I am practically alone in this, but I still choose to say "Fewer 
than 10 friends came to the party" instead of "Less than 10 friends..."


than 10 friends came to the party" instead of "Less than 10 friends..."
So do I.
-- 
Adam Atkinson (
gh...@mistral.co.uk
)
When we declare an alien species to be raman, it does not mean that
_they_ have passed a threshold of moral maturity. It means that we have.

 Dico pubblicamente che...
A me piace la più scherzosa: "sia messo agli atti che...".
-- 
Giovanni Bajo


My sister says less is used for uncountable things. So 'less milk'
since a quantity is unstated. 'Fewer bottles of milk.'  'less
trouble' 'fewer replies'. I dunno, it's 'feel' thing. :-)) It's as
bad as trying to work out when to use 'a' or 'di' 'per' in italiano.
-- 
              O      __
      ___   /\     / / O  
     /__ \   | \   /  |
    O  /  \ /   \./   |       Loki
        |________ |
 

 
Anche a me; c'e' una certa ironia nella frase.
