Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Frankenstein again

Tratto dal capitolo 5, subito dopo la "nascita" del Mostro:
Lightning burns and lines where the pieces of skin had been joined
together marked the rest of his body; 
Nature has made a mistake, and, as Nature always does, 
SHE WILL PUT HER MISTAKE RIGHT IN HER OWN WAY.
Per chi ancora non lo sapesse, come si traduce?
Grazie mille da Ornella

 Grazie mille da Ornella
prego,
Loki
-- 
  Brevity is the soul of wit.    W.Shakespeare


Grazie, ora ho capito.
Ma... la prima frase? "Lightning burn ecc. ecc.?
ciao da ornella

 together marked the rest of his body; "
The burns made by lightning, and lines (where the pieces of skin had
been joined together) marked the rest of his body
The burns are the noun, the lightning the adjective. It could start
to read as: lightning (noun) burns (verb) and lines (this wouldn't
make sense then) In fact I first thought the lines were part of the
lightning effect, the construction was so poor. i mean once you get
the meaning it seems ok, but on first reading  it is confusing. 
Does this look easier to follow?
Lightning [adjective] burns, and lines where the pieces of skin had
been joined together, marked the rest of his body; 
Punctuation is pretty important in English, I don't know if it is so
necessary in italiano. Anyone have any comments?
Cheers,


 necessary in italiano. Anyone have any comments?
I'd say it is.
(Even though I misuse it).
One thing that is seldom seen in Italian, though, is a comma right before an
'and'.
It is far more common in English, as far as I know.
Anyone have any comments? : )
saluti,
Peltio


Punctuation is the dark side of grammar.
+--
I know you can't speak, I know you can't sign
So cry right here on the dotted line

 Anyone have any comments? : )
E' vero. Alle medie ho imparato che in italiano [quote] "la virgola 
indica una breve pausa e può essere variamente usata: per isolare un 
vocativo (<<Sta' tranquillo, Carlo, che verrò>>) oppure un'apposizione 
con attributi e complementi (<<Dante, il più grande poeta italiano, era 
fiorentino; Milano, che è la seconda città italiana, ha quasi raggiunto i 
due milioni di abitanti*>>); per dividere più proposizioni (<<è vero, non 
potrò venire>>); per separare gli elementi di un'enumerazione (<<il 
padre, la madre, i figli, erano tutti felici>>)" [end quote dal Libro 
Garzanti della Lingua Italiana]
Ma, a differenza che nell'inglese, se l'ultimo elemento dell'enumerazione 
è preceduto dalla congiunzione 'e' la virgola diventa superflua: <<l'aria 
era limpida, fresca e odorosa>>. Non credo però sia da considerare un 
vero e proprio errore l'uso della virgola in casi come quest'ultimo; 
alcune case editrici seguono norme redazionali più rigide in proposito, 
altre meno.
-- 
Ciao,
Anna
* Questo, nel 1970.

Ora so anche troppo.
Grazie a tutti e... a presto!
Ornella

 Anyone have any comments? : )
Ah, this particular comma is an Americanism that seems to be growing.
Sometimes it makes sense to use one - which just goes to show how
insidious it is... :-))


 Punctuation is the dark side of grammar.
LOL


 altre meno.
Per essere giusto negli Stati Uniti, questo esempio ha bisogna del *series
comma.* Si scrive <<l'aria era limpida, fresca, e odorosa>>. Č vero che in
Inghilterra non si usa il series comma e a volte da della confusione. Anche, i
giornalisti negli Stati Uniti non usano il series comma per conservare spazio.
Chicago Manual of Style
*Series*
5.46  In a series consisting of three or more elements, the elements are
separated by commas. When a conjunction joins the last two elements in a series,
a comma is used before the conjunction:
*Attending the conference were Farmer, Johnson, and Kendrick.*
*We have a choice of copper, silver, or gold.*
*The owner, the agent, and the tenant were having an acrimonious discussion.*
5.47  When the elements in a series are very simple and are all joined by
conjunctions, no commas should be used:
*I cannot remember whether the poem was written by Snodgrass or Shapiro or
Brooks.*
5.48  When the elements in a series are long and complex or involve internal
punctuation, they should be separated by semicolons.
5.49  Although the use of *etc.* in running test is to be discouraged, it
should, when used, be set off by commas:
*The firm manufactured nuts, bolts, nails, metal wire, etc., in its plant on the
Passaic River.

Si scrive <<l'aria era limpida, fresca, e odorosa>>.
Mi dispiace. Intendevo dire che, in inglese, si scrive << the air was limpid,
cool, and sweet-smelling>>.

 been joined together) marked the rest of his body
I'd punctuate this as follows:=
The burns, made by lightening, and lines, where the pieces of skin had
been joined together, marked the rest of the body.
"made by lightening" and "where the pieces of skin had been joined
together" are parenthetic phrases as indicated by the brackets above.
A nice story indicates the use of commas with and.
The landlord of the "Pig and Whistle" pub had his sign repainted.  The
sign painter asked the landlord if it was okay.  The landlord said "no,
the writing is too cramped.  There isn't enough space between pig and
and, and, and and whistle". (My spell/grammar checker doesn't like it
either)
Cheers
-- 
John G Davies

 either)
Alas I must disagree ... again...  ;-) 
For this sentence I'd want to remove a comma . 
The landlord said "No, the writing is too cramped.  There isn't
enough space between Pig and and, and and and Whistle."
T'would be even clearer to say. "The isn't enough space between pig,
and, and whistle." However it wouldn't be funny then...
I suspect you like using too many commas. :-)
For those who want to know what's going on in English I retreated to
my trusty grammar book which had this to say : 
"There is a difference in meaning between a defining phrase or clause
and a non-defining phrase or clause. This difference must be marked
by correct punctuation..
"Defining phrase:
Cars with _front wheel drive_ are noted for their road holding
qualities.
"Non-defining phrase:
Cars, _with all their advantages_, make big demands on scarse
supplies of fuel.
"Defining clause:
People over sixty _who are entitled to half-price travel_ should
apply by October 1.
"Non-defining clause:
The main road, _which carries a lot of traffic,_  passes through some
pretty villages.
Use commas to mark off non-defing phrases and clauses."
I hope that has helped. For me, I find it helps to mentally join the
phrases at either end of the commas to see if they make sense. Very
useful for clarifying complicated sentences that carry carry several
ideas within them.


 and, and, and and whistle".
Č un buon esempio, ma abbastanza assurdo, di perchč il "series comma" č utile.
Un altro esempio piů commune:
There are five wires in the cable. They are color-coded red and white, blue,
green and white, yellow, and black.