Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Re: garantito al limone :)

 nord_americano O;P "lemon guarantee"/"guaranteed by the lemon"
Come dice il secondo link che hai postato, era lo slogan di un detersivo
per i piatti, in un vecchio Carosello. "Garantito al limone" voleva dire
che, contenendo limone, era particolarmente sgrassante ed efficace.


In USA non si usa.
Joe from Massachusetts


Prima del Carosello c'erano pochi che parlavano della cuccagna Alemagna.
Ma il Carosello non esisteva prima del 1954, e la frase non esisteva in
italiano prima del Carosello.
Prima del Carosello "garantito al limone" non significava nulla, e non ha
niente a che fare con l'inglese degli anni 40 o di qualsiasi altro periodo.
Joe from Massachusetts

 ma la versione "originale" in nord_americano, qual'e'?!?
Ricordi i titoli dei film?
Se ricordi i titoli e qualcosa della trama per risalire alla frase, e' a
volte possibile trovare
le sceneggiature originali on line e le battute in oggetto.
E' possibilissimo che siano state "licenze" di traduzione dell'epoca e le
frasi in se siano piu' che banali.
Divagando: ho appena rivisto una sequenza di "La citta' magica " con James
Stewart.
In sostanza Stewart e' un esperto di statistica che scopre una cittadina, in
cui gli abitanti sono specchio fedele della nazione, per quel che riguarda
opinioni e comportamenti.
Accompagna al bar Jane Wyman, che ordina "bicarbonato" e lo ordina pure lui.
Chiaramente non e ' un incomprensibile bicarbonato ma una "soda".
Questo per dire che anche in passato (il film e' del 1947) non e' che i
doppiaggi fossero accuratissimi.
ciao
Weiss
--------------------------------
Inviato via 
http://arianna.libero.it/usenet/

 le sceneggiature originali on line e le battute in oggetto.
Lo ripeteva nella versione italiana il personaggio interpretato da Van
Johnson in "Bastogne" ("Battleground", W. Wellmann, 1949).

 Johnson in "Bastogne" ("Battleground", W. Wellmann, 1949).
"That's for sure, that's for dang sure!"
:-)


 Chiaramente non e ' un incomprensibile bicarbonato ma una "soda".
Small restaurants and lunch counters such as those found in "drug stores"
often sold bicarbonate of soda.
Maybe they still do.
http://www.brioschi-usa.com/brioschi-facts.htm
Joe from Massachusetts

 wrote in message
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Here's another that would be found in these restaurants.
http://www.alkaseltzer.com/as/as_original.htm
Joe from Massachusetts

 wrote in message
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Most people would order a brand name, such as Alka-Seltzer, Bromo Seltzer,
or Brioschi, but sometimes they would order plain "bicarb", because some of
these brand names include aspirin or other substances which they might want
to avoid.
"Brioschi" some years ago ran an ad campaign, which touted Brioschi as a
cure for "agita".
«When he would get agita from such imprudence, he would ask for Brioschi, a
bicarbonate of soda imported from Italy.»
http://www.onlineoffbeat.com/2008/03/diary_of_a_city_priest_a_truly.html
Joe from Massachusetts

 wrote in message
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agita
(US) dyspepsia; mental aggravation; annoyance
Etymology  Italian
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/agita
Joe from Massachusetts

> 
http://www.onlineoffbeat.com/2008/03/diary_of_a_city_priest_a_truly.html
Brioschi is my favourite, along with Citrosodina! But I didn't know what
agita was. You live, you learn :)
-- 
Anna

 
http://www.brioschi-usa.com/brioschi-facts.htm
Non ne dubito.
Nel film (in bianco e nero) si trattava chiaramente di una bibita scura che
a detta di James Stewart, il quale nemmeno la assaggia, : "...sembra
cioccolato" .
Insomma si trattava di una cola ( e non di baking soda).
L'aspetto curioso e' che l'errore di traduzione nel doppiaggio assumeva
comunque un senso, nell'ambito della commedia.
Ovvero, l'uomo che corteggia la ragazza per starle assieme ordina "lo
stesso" senza pensare, fosse pure un purgante.
E' una situazione comica che appare in altri film , in cui la donna ordina
cose folli e l'innamorato la segue.
Non era pero' questo il caso.


 Joe from Massachusetts
These etymologies are always surprising... no-one would say
or understand "agita" for the burning sensation in the stomach,
the Italian word would be "acidità".
At first I though it was another case of word corruption, but the
American Heritage dictionary says:
http://www.bartleby.com/61/28/A0142800.html
ETYMOLOGY:Italian, from agitare, to agitate, from Latin agitre. See agitate.
On the other had, the Word detective web site says
"Agita" is not a standard Italian word, and linguists are not certain where 
came from. One possible source is the Italian word "agitare" ("to agitate" 
or "to trouble"), which in turn came from the Latin "agitare," which meant 
"to stir up." To be "agitato" in Italy is to be very excited, and a musical 
score marked "agitato" is intended to be played at a frenzied pace. But it's 
also possible that the source is "acido" (pronounced "AH-chee-do"), Italian 
for "stomach acid," which then possibly became "agita" ("AH-jih-ta") over 
time. Whatever the source, "agita" seems to have arrived in New York with 
Italian immigrants around the turn of the century, and has been in constant 
use, especially in places like New York City, ever since.
I certaintly vote for the "acido" origin, not the "agitare" one!

 City, ever since.
That's an interesting website. I've wondered about the origins of "agita" 
which I've heard said often on the East Coast. I've always assumed that it 
came from an Italian dialect of Campania, Calabria, or Sicilia. On that 
website I also found a response to a question about "to skeeve" which has 
always interested me as transformed Italian word.
<citation>
"To skeeve" does indeed mean, as the Oxford English Dictionary defines it in
a draft entry, "To disgust (someone), to repel; to make uncomfortable." It
can be used in two transitive senses: my behavior can "skeeve you out," or
you may simply "skeeve" (be disgusted by) me. Oddly enough, the OED
illustrates the second sense with a quote from a "Sopranos" script ("You've
changed Tony. ... I swear sometimes I think you skeeve me."), but that
citation properly belongs with the first sense.
"Skeeve" seems to be native to the southern New Jersey and Philadelphia
areas, and dates, in the form "skeevy" (disgusting), to the mid-1970s. It
appears to derive from the Italian word "schifo," meaning "nausea or
disgust," which would make sense given the large Italian-American presence
in South Jersey and Philadelphia.
<citation>
In my experience, however, the usage is not restricted to South Jersey, but
is also very common in North Jersey and NYC. The origin is also earlier than
the mid-70's.

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"Agita''' is not limited to Italian-Americans. It has permeated the
language.
http://query.nytimes.com/search/sitesearch?query=agita&srchst=cse
Joe from Massachusetts

 wrote in message
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In the Woody Allen film "Broadway Danny Rose'', Lou Apollo Forte plays "Lou
Canova", an over-the hill Italian-American "lounge singer". Forte wrote a
song, entitled "Agita", for the film, and performed it in the film. The song
pokes fun at Italian-American lounge singers, who, like many
Italian-Americans, know very little Italian. For Lou Canova, the important
thing is to "sound Italian", even though what you are singing is nonsense.
«My gumba in the banzone
When I eat, he gets a treat
Like a canzone
He enjoys every meal
Every bite that I steal
Agita
My gumba in the banzone
Za da da da da|boom cha boom cha
Za da da dum cha boom cha boom
Some people like their pizza, some people like-a suffrite
And others like hot pepper on everything they eat
You'll hunger with a vuole to taste that baccala
Then all at once you think, "Will I answer to gumba?"
Ba ba ba ba bum cha cha dum
Ba ba ba ba bum cha cha dum
My lovely, lovely woman, I hate to see her cry
But when I start to mangia, I get the evil eye
My vuole's getting stronger
Ah, the hell with my gumba
Then I get it from my woman, che da botts a na sciatta
Agita
My gumba in the banzone
When I eat, he gets a treat
Like a canzone
He enjoys every meal
Every bite that I steal
Agita
My gumba in the banzone
Za da da dum cha boom cha boom»
("Agita", Lou Apollo Forte)
http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/2006/11/25/what-is-agita/
Joe from Massachusetts

 Canova", an over-the hill Italian-American "lounge singer". Forte wrote a
Nick Apollo Forte (not Lou Apollo Forte) plays "Lou Canova"...
Joe from Massachusetts