Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Ride... piu' a lungo... chi ride ultimo!

Conoscete altri proverbi e modi di dire *quasi* uguali, salvo un piccolo ma
significativo particolare? :)

 ma significativo particolare? :)
Ci sono molti. Per esempio: Una mano lava l'altra.

 Ci sono molti. Per esempio: Una mano lava l'altra.
Isn't this one just the same as in Italian?
"One hand washes the other one..." ?
-- 
Enrico C
...still legal tender...

 "One hand washes the other one..." ?
Yes. But the same is true for your example. Well, instead of 'laughs longer' 
in English you say 'laughs best'. You're looking for those with only a 
slight difference in phrasing? 

 slight difference in phrasing?
That's it! Our "Uccidere due uccelli con una pietra", for instance, for
your "To take two pigeons with one bean". ;)))
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 in English you say 'laughs best'.
Sorry, I didn't get that. 
I thought the English proverb was "He who laughs last laughs longest."
Now I see you more often say: "He laughs best who laughs last.", just as we
do! 
In Italian it's "Ride bene chi ride ultimo".
 
The two proverbs are just the same, in this case, there is only a minor
difference ("bene" instead of "meglio")!
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 your "To take two pigeons with one bean". ;)))
Just joking. The other way round, obviously!
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 "One hand washes the other one..." ?
Never heard it in GB.
-- 
Mary

 do!
I've never heard that.
-- 
Mary

 on it.cultura.linguistica.inglese :
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E come diresti?

 E come diresti?
"He who laughs last laughs longest", like I said.
-- 
Mary

 "He who laughs last laughs longest", like I said.
No. 'He who laughs last, laughs best,' like I said ;) 

 difference ("bene" instead of "meglio")!
Allora, quale tipo del proverbio vorresti vedere?

 on
it.cultura.linguistica.inglese :
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Well, the ones with a very similar pattern but different items.
You shoot birds with a stone, we aim at pigeons using a bean, for instance,
but the pattern is the same.
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 wrote in message
news:42DCC0D4...@spamfinito.it...
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That's because one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. :>)
Joe from Massachusetts

 That's because one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. :>)
They'd better continue not to speak to each other.
Bye, FB
-- 
Saldando insieme vari dadi con una goccia d'acqua e tanta pazienza, riesci
a fare una specie di custodia con coperchio nella quale inserire la patata.
Per la cottura poi procedi come per il pollo alla creta.
(Elogio del dado - Garfield su it.hobby.cucina)

 That's because one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. :>)
But if one hand washes the other one, who wash the washing one?
And if one hand washes the other one, and one hand doesn't know what the
other is doing, and if the washing hand is the one that does not know what
the other hand is doing, how does it manage to wash it and still have no
clue about what the other hand is doing? And if the hand that does not know
is the washed hand, what the hell is it thinking while it's being washed by
the other hand? "I don't know what the other hand is doing", it might say,
but it might add "but something is touching me and I don't know what it
is".
Sebastiano

 They'd better continue not to speak to each other.
They just soap themselves up without knowing what the other one is doing.
And sometimes they drop the soap. Whops. 
- "Could you hand me the soap, Hand Solo?" 
 
  + "If I do that, you'll know what I am doing, Obi-Hand."
- "Holy Moly, I didn't think about that, what should we do now?"
 
  + "I could turn away now knowing what you're doing..."
- "That's right, do it, Hand-Solo! Do it right now!"
 
[Obi-Hand turns away, Hand Solo picks up the soap and starts soaping the
back of Obi-Hand]
  + "One Hand does not know what the other is doing"
- "One Hand soaps the other one"
The Hand.
Sebastiano

 what it is".
Reading this reminds me that probably many of the proverbs in use in the US
were entered into the language by Italian immigrants.


Must be an Am-Eng / BritEng thing . Like Mary , I (in UK) know it as 'He who 
laughs last laughs longest' , and I've never heard the other version either 
.
Mike 

 were entered into the language by Italian immigrants.
We're handy.
Sebastiano

 on
it.cultura.linguistica.inglese :
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A handful of them, at least ;)
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but the pattern is the same.
I don't mean to be pedantic but it's "kill two birds with one stone".

 Enrico C wrote:
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Never heard of "One hand washeth another and both the face" either?
-- 
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http://www.newsland.it/news
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ab...@newsland.it

 Never heard of "One hand washeth another and both the face" either?
No, never.
-- 
Mary

 No, never.
It is reported on "Il nuovo Ragazzini-Rossi" dictionary. The
Italian-English section is full of proverbs. I had been collecting a list
of them and now I can't be sure any more of which is correct.
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 of them and now I can't be sure any more of which is correct.
"One hand washeth another and both the face" was written by George Herbert, 
a 17th century Welsh poet. 

Tony the Ice Man ha scritto:
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Aha! So it has become a proverb eventually, however not so widespread,
hasn't it?
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> Never heard of "One hand washeth another and both the face" either?
E tu hai mai sentito "tu mi gratti la mia schiena e io ti gratto la tua?"
antonio

Comunque il proverbio "he who laughs last etc" non si usa con la stessa
frequenza che in italiano, anzi non si usa quasi mai.
Nella situazione in cui qualcuno stia ridendo prematuramente si direbbe "he
will soon be laughing on the other side of his face".
La sapevi questa:
"rosso di sera bel tempo si spera, rosso al mattino maltempo si avvicina"
"red sky at night, shepherd's delight. Red sky in the morning, shepherd's
warning"

 on
it.cultura.linguistica.inglese :
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I wonder what bird-hunting technique that saying refers to! :)
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 Never heard of "One hand washeth another and both the face" either?
But one will still be dirty, won't it?
Bye, FB
-- 
"Something to take to the country." (holding out a bunch of flowers)
"Flowers come _from_ the country, Charles."
(Cold Comfort Farm, the film)


No . It appears in a collection of proverbs made by  Herbert in the mid-17th 
century . What is striking is how few of them have survived - the collection 
(he published an expanded edition) includes about 1200 sayings , of which no 
more than a handful are still current (e.g. 'All that glisters is not gold' 
, tho' Herbert has 'All is not gold that glisters') .
The problem is not whether the proverbs in your list are 'correct' , but 
whether they're still in use   - the same problem we all face when we try to 
use slang and colloquialisms in another language . My colloquial French is 
rooted in the sixties , and would probably sound ridiculous if I used it 
today .
Mike
"A man well mounted is ever Cholerick" - George Herbert 's 'Outlandish 
Proverbs'

> E tu hai mai sentito "tu mi gratti la mia schiena e io ti gratto la tua?"
L'expressione in inglese è 'you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours'.

 warning"
yeah

 wrote in message
news:42de...@212.67.96.135...
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I have always heard "Red sky at night, sailor's delight. Red sky in
morning, sailor's warning".
http://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/mysteries/weather-sailor.html
Joe from Massachusetts

 today .
Then it should have been specified in that dictionary. On the contrary,
they are simply reported as proverbs, as if they were still used today.
Ah, bilingual dictionaries: you never know on which side of the fence they
are  ;)
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 morning, sailor's warning".
Maybe it depends on where you live: Boston, sea, ships, sailors not
shepherds... :)
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 shepherds... :)
Yep, I live in the Staffordshire Moorlands, i.e. "siamo pecorai".
antonio

"Tu mi gratti la mia schiena e io ti gratto la tua" in italiano non e'
sbagliato e il significato e' abbastanza chiaro. Il problema e' che non e'
una frase fatta o un proverbio italiano, ma la traduzione letterale di un
proverbio inglese.
Lo stesso e' "one hand washes the other" in inglese.

 Well, the ones with a very similar pattern but different items.
Another one: 
"To put the cart before the horse."
We use an oxen cart instead :-D
"Mettere il carro davanti ai buoi"
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Come sai l'etimologia di queste espressioni? Hai fatto la ricerca o ne hai 
letto? Chiedo perché lo so che spesso un etimologia che sembra ovvia, ha 
invece un'origine diverse. 

 wrote in message news:dbnvks$96o$1...@news.newsland.it...
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'glisters' is the old form of the word ; some people quoting the proverb 
today might still use the old form (a number of proverbs still current use 
archaic forms) , though probably most would say 'glitters'
Mike 

Mike Brewer ha scritto:
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Like the famous line in Starway to heaven "there's a lady who's sure all
that glitters is gold" by Led Zeppelin ;)
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 But one will still be dirty, won't it?
And so will be a half of the face, since it will be washed the unwashed
hand
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