Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Names with or without THE

Hi folks,
I'm studing on 'English grammar in use for intermediate students' published
by Cambridge University Press.
I've just read the topic 'Names with or without THE'.
It has teached me that I can say:
THE north (of France) but northern France (without 'THE'),
THE south-east (of Spain) but south-eastern Spain.
Now, however, I've found out on intenet these two sentences:
' While the Antarctic was moving South, Australia was moving North-East' and
'I discovered these rocks while I was working as a geologist in the eastern
United States'.
In according with the first rule the last sentences should have written :
'While the Antartic was moving to the south, Australia was moving to the
North-East' and the last one 'I discovered these rocks while I was working
in
eastern United States (or in eastern of the United States)'.
What's right?
Is it possible every time I learn a rule this has denied?
Thanks
--
Ą Rocks Ą
P.S.
Is 'should have written' right?

United States'.
"moving South & moving North East" don't need them as they are just
directions, "in the eastern United States" is a specific place.


 Is 'should have written' right?
...should have *been* written...
Good luck!
Zz

 I would say that this is an example of incorrect usage.
Do you mean "in eastern <country called USA>" vs. "in the eastern states of
the United States"?
Bye, FB

 the United States"?
Well, I did (albeit the other way around).

 
-- 
Un-not my address if you wanna reply.

 Is 'should have written' right?
 
Sorry: I missed your last question before.
It should be "...the last sentence should have *been* written :"
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 It has taught me...
If you say "I've just read the topic...", wouldn't it be better to continue
by saying "It taught me..."? I mean, if you say "I've just...", you are
referring to a certain past experience, so it would seem logical to use the
simple past afterwards.
Bye, FB

, 
fam.baldu...@tin.it
 says...
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Yes, your suggestion does make sense. I was focused on the word "teached" 
and didn't pay much attention to the tenses... However, either is 
correct; no one would fault him for saying "It has taught me", although 
it sounds a little more "studied" than "It taught me..."
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 it sounds a little more "studied" than "It taught me..."
But not correct, in my very humble, non-native opinion (considah that I use
the present pehfect whenever I can). I would say "I've read that chapter
(when? I've read it, I know what it says, that's all), It's taught me... (I
wouldn't say "It's taught me", maybe...)"; but if I said "I've just (five
minutes ago) read", what follows would refer to that past experience, not
to an indefinite past time (I'm not saying "that's what I've learnt/what I
know") but "I learnt this when I read the chapter (five minutes ago)".
Does this make sense? 
Bye, FB

, 
fam.baldu...@tin.it
 says...

I don't really follow you (sorry! (faccina piangente))
It may be a matter of *choice* for you say
"I've read that chapter and it taught me"
which, we all agree, is "acceptable"
(maybe a better term than "correct")
and, although there is a slight difference
in the emphasis of the reply, it's perfectly correct to say
"I've read that chapter and it has taught me..."
(or more conversationally: "it's taught me...")
Reminder and Disclaimer: I'm Joey from NYC. I speak (perfect) American 
English (faccina umile); there may be differences in the UK. And in older 
AmEng, maybe more attention would be paid to these sequences of tense.
Also, "learnt" grates on my ears; it sounds old-fashion to an AmEng 
orrecchio.
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 orrecchio.
In England learnt is still the spoken norm, although learned seems to have
taken more of a hold in the written language.
Zz
the man with no name!

 
<blush> I realized that somehow my name got changed my real name 
(Anathema!) instead of my "assumed" real name (DoWop Dee) and I changed 
it post-haste. Never thought anyone would notice...
It figures someone named "Zz" would, though. 8-)


 It figures someone named "Zz" would, though. 8-)
Mmm. My disguise is a thin one. So thin in fact, that there is barely room
to hide behind it!
It doesn't always work in my favour, either, as I'm sure most people think
it looks like I'm bored or sleeping when I'm usually quite perky! Ho-hum.
Zz (the unmasker)

 orrecchio.
I've always used it, so it sounds common to my Italian ears (I'm now
looking for another supplier of English ears; Boston Eahs Inc. seems
reliable; it supplied Dumbo for years, I understand).
Bye, FB

 taken more of a hold in the written language.
I think I've come across it in "The British Museum Is Falling Down" (1965).
I'm not sure at all, though (but then who is sure of anything?).
Bye, FB

 
Bye bye, JD
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 Is it possible every time I learn a rule this has denied?
There is only one rule and it is this: There are no rules.
Joe, I thought I might remind you of another confusing, but
meritorious exception involving the use of "the".
The geographic area which comprises New York City consists of five
counties, which are subdivisions of the State of  New York.
The geographic area of New York City also contains five Boroughs,
which are subdivisions of the City of New York, and which have the
same geographical boundaries as the counties: the Borough of Manhattan
(New York County), the Borough of Queens (Queens County), the Borough
of Brooklyn (Kings County), the Borough of Staten Island (Richmond
County), and the Borough of the Bronx (Bronx County).
Manhattan, a borough of New York City, does not demand the use of an
article.
The Bronx (my former home) however, requires the use of the article.
It is apparent that, in order to distinguish it from the less
illustrious boroughs in the City of New York, such as Manhattan, New
Yorkers have deemed that the article must always be used when
referring to that hallowed place known as "the Bronx", "the
one-and-only Bronx". Italians have a similar way of showing such
esteem, as in the phrase "La Loren", "the one-and-only Loren".
Remember, you can say "Manhattan", but you can't say "Bronx". You must
say "the Bronx", the one-and-only Bronx.
:>)
Joe from Massachusetts

 
Nice bit of puffery, there, Joe. :) I was in fact made aware of that by 
someone early on in my residence here in Manhattan by someone from the 
Bronx. They also, however, mentioned a little something about how 
much of it was land belonging to The Broncks, Swedish immigrants, Jonas, 
I believe, and his lovely wife, and was originally "The Broncks'", plural 
possessive, referring to their property, their land, their farm. 
*Apparently someone of poor learning, (a neighbor, perhaps of some of 
your ancestors? VBSEG), later inscribed the name, misspelled, as "The 
Bronx" and the name stuck.
(*Totally unattested.)
Which of course reminds me of the importance of MY neighborhood, which as 
you *may* know is in Manhattan: Murray Hill, named for the eponymous John 
and Mary Murray. Rumor (of which there are several flavors) has it that 
during the Revolution, when the British General Howe was in hot pursuit 
of American troops (and gaining rapidly), as they passed through the 
Murray Farm he was invited by Mary Murray to stop for a "rest" (meaning, 
depending on your flavor of the story, a cup of tea, a flagon of wine, a 
biscuit or all of the above, with one version even throwing in a 
dalliance.) (Heavens!) You may have learned this in grammar school as 
part of your local history classes, if such courses extended beyond The 
Hallowed Bronx.
At any rate, the anecdote goes on to say that because of this, 
Washington's men were able to make their escape to Harlem Heights, and 
thus the day was saved. There's a marker on 37th Street and Park Avenue 
indicating where the Murray farmhouse was (I live on 36th) and the farm 
itself, I'm told, stretched far and wide down toward Kip's Bay and up 
beyond what's now Grand Central Terminal.
All this, of course, is "baby talk" compared with European History, but 
still, ya gotta love it.


 counties, which are subdivisions of the State of  New York.[...]
I've always been intrigued by The Gambia, a country in Africa
referred to with 'the'. Perhaps not so much now but my old atlas
still has it listed as The Gambia.
Why did it get the the. :-)
-- 
              O      __
      ___   /\     / / O  
     /__ \   | \   /  |
    O  /  \ /   \./   |       Loki
        |________ |
 

, 
lo...@aotearoa.invalid says...
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Is there more than one Gambium?
:)
(PS: My atlas has it as Gambia.)
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 I've always been intrigued by The Gambia
Like "mi fa male la gambia"?
Ciao, FB

 If you love JA, I would *KILL FOR* "TAAoKaC"
I feel I must read it soon, then. I'll let you know. Should I not like it,
is it too thick to be used under a table's leg? If so, is it heavy enough
to be used as a "fermaporta"?
Bye, FB

 (PS: My atlas has it as Gambia.)
So does mine, now that I look at it. But I have seen it. Probably in
a library atlas which would be classier than my old old school one. (
I bought it second-hand old , not,  that I've had it for centuries)
 Even the CIA call it The Gambia. But how accurate are they??
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ga.html
 .
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
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 :-ş ~~~~~
Mi fa mal di testa more like it ... if i may prendo sotto gamba.  ;-)


 
That's interesting. I could be way off base here, but as The Gambia seems 
to be occupied largely by the Gambia (river) maybe that's where it comes 
from. When I first looked at that map I was sure "Gambia, The" referred 
to the river, but no, I see it's the whole (such as it is) country.
Also, as it occurs to me, why "The Ukraine", "The Caucusus"?
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 to be used as a "fermaporta"?
Too thick to prop up a table, but it would make a good doorstop. :'-(
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 Also, as it occurs to me, why "The Ukraine", "The Caucusus"?
Boh.
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