Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: "Wouldst" and other old words

I'm reading "Aladdin and the Wonderful lamp" that  I've taken on this great(for
me) site:  
http://www.little-folks.com/stories/
I've found archaic terms like "Wouldst", "thou", "thee" that I didn't know.
Are they used only in old stories?
Or maybe will I  find these words in current use too?
Uff, ci ho messo 10 minuti per scrivere questo brevissimo post...  :-(
Ciao.

 
No. Well, you'll find them in prayers: 'thou' is used to address God.
Max

 Uff, ci ho messo 10 minuti per scrivere questo brevissimo post...  :-(
You have to write so much that you won't need to look up any words when
writing.
Bye, FB
-- 
L'importante è che risplenda tu, sola primadonna e immarcescibile leggenda
del tuo pianerottolo.
(Lucangel su it.cultura.libri)

 for example, always usedth them.
That is not why some Americans say "wath" instead of "was". (smiling face)
Bye, FB
-- 
Io ho deciso di rifiutarmi di vederlo: Ettore con la faccia di Eric Banana
mi fa venire i conati.
(commento sul film "Troy" apparso su it.fan.scrittori.tolkien)

 writing.
You're right, but my electronic dictionary(Zanichelli) is only for Windows,
while I almost use only Linux, so I have to use the paper version and "so
doing"("cosi facendo" si rende cosě?)   I lose much time :-(
I hope that in future someone will also write a dictionary for Linux.
Thanks.

 I hope that in future someone will also write a dictionary for Linux.
You may want to take a look here:
 
 
http://www.dict.org/links.html
Max

 and "so doing"("cosi facendo" si rende così?)   I lose much time :-(
Penso "in so doing". Esiste anche "by <doing/altroverbo...>, ma non so se
ci sia una differenza. Qui "in" dovrebbe essere corretto.
Qualcuno può spiegare che differenza passa tra "in <gerundio>" e "by
<gerundio>".
Ciao, FB
-- 
"Nasalization is just a part of life"
(Joey DoWop Dee on it.cultura.linguistica.inglese)

 Or maybe will I  find these words in current use too?
No.
Cmq sul Ragazzini trovi questi termini.

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:05:57 GMT, Max wrote:

Max! You're doing very well. Yes, you can say "so doing" (or "in so doing")
I lose much (or "a lot of time")
Your English is very good. Maybe it's slow, but keep at it. When I write in
Italian I keep having to look up words that I thought I knew already....
but.. then... in comes the doubt... and in this NG there are *some*
ruthless people. (joke: pretty much everyone here is nice and wants to be
helpful.)
-- 
If you feel the need to e-mail me, un-not my address first.

 This custom is disappearing now, and younger Quakers don't speak this way.
I read that "thou" (or an altered form of it) is still used in some dialects
of northern England or Scotland. Can Britons here confirm or deny this?
--
Cingar
--------------------------------
Inviato via 
http://arianna.libero.it/usenet/

 Are they used only in old stories?
No, there is a frequent contributor to this NY who prefers to use these and
other antiquated expressions frequently. :)))
Now, who the F could it B?  :-p


 of northern England or Scotland. Can Britons here confirm or deny this?
I can't confirm or deny that, but in the US "thou", "thee", "thy" and
"thine" are still used by Quakers and I think the Amish. There aren't too
many Shakers left (another religious sect), but they might use this form of
address. Possibly other sects, too.


 Now, who the F could it B?  :-p
Oy. That should be "..contributor to this NG..." 
Sorry. I got NY on my mind... upcoming Repugnant ... I mean Republican
Convention has me in a tizzy.


 Now, who the F could it B?  :-p
Thou art wrong. No wonder: I am always right, am I not?
Ciao, FB
-- 
"Gli americani sono ignoranti per loro stessa natura"
that is "The Americans are naturally ignorant"
(Paolo Bonardi's opinion on it.cultura.linguistica -
http://snipurl.com/7ryg
)

deny this?
Thee and thou are commonly used in South and West Yorkshire and in East 
Lancashire.
It is common to hear phrases like "it's between thee and me" in a pub 
competition.
It is only used between people who are familiar and friendly.  Hence 
comments like "Don't you thou me" in disagreements.
Cheers
-- 
John G Davies

 Cheers
A popular brand of oatmeal in the States is Quaker Brand, whose slogan is
"Nothing is better for Thee than Me."


 Su, su, tante volte fare il convenzionale aiuta. 
Vuoi mettere la comodità di far ricerche istantanee su singole frasi che
contengano la parola che cerchi(o un'insieme di parole consecutive)?
Ricerche del tipo: dammi tutte le frasi contengono "same here"....
Sulla carta è dura :-(

 Italian "I keep having to look up words" that I thought I knew already....
Could you translate in Italian "I keep having to look up words"?
I'm not sure I understand it well.
Thanks.

 comments like "Don't you thou me" in disagreements.
Pazzesco il verbo "to thou"! Suppongo che alla seconda persona singolare
faccia "thou thoust".
Perché in italiano non abbiamo il verbo "tuare"? Ci servirebbe senz'altro
di più di quanto possa servire in inglese: "Bando alle formalità, tuiamoci
pure".
--
Cingar
-- 
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http://www.newsland.it/news
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ab...@newsland.it

 Perché in italiano non abbiamo il verbo "tuare"?
Farebbe comodo. In spagnolo e in portoghese ce l'hanno ("tutear"). Anche in
francese ("tutoyer", mi pare).
Max

 Joey DoWop Dee affermò che:

I'm not sure of the Italian, but the meaning is "I have to look up words
over and over"; "I have to look up words all the time."
The construction "to keep (on) + <present participle>" means a repeated
action. "On" is not always needed or used. In conjunction with "to have to"
("I keep having to" it means a repeated necessity.) 
I keep having to remind myself I'm not in charge.
(I forget all the time that I'm not in charge; I have to remind myself over
and over again.)
We keep thinking the problem is solved, but it isn't.
(The problem persists. Or: the problem "keeps recurring")
They kept (on) singing even though the music ended.
(Maybe they were a little ubriachi...:)


Could you translate in Italian "I keep having to look up words"?
Guarda la spiegazione di Joey, che fa luce su quest'uso di to keep.
Il significato, in italiano, č "continuo a dover (aver bisogno di)
cercare le parole sul dizionario".
"continuo a dover" 		to keep having to;
"cercare le parole sul dizionario"	to look up words.
Sebastiano

 but.. then... in comes the doubt...
Mi hai risparmiato una domanda: "<in comes> può essere usato anche senza
<out goes>"? In questo caso mi pare che significhi: "Ma... poi... mi viene
il dubbio".
Ciao, FB
-- 
Locked from the inside. That can only mean one thing, and I don't know what
it is.
(Murder by Death)

 Ciao, FB
Mi sa non te l'abbia risparmiata; vedo un punto d'interrogazione lassů,
fuori della virgoletta. :)
Ma tu hai ragione, all the same.


 address. Possibly other sects, too.
Among themselves the Amish speak Pennsylvania Dutch, a form of German
with Swiss roots, which long ago deviated from the mother language,
and they have no ties to old English.
Joe from Massachusetts

 (Maybe they were a little ubriachi...:)
You are my personal grammar book! :-)
Thanks!

 "cercare le parole sul dizionario"    to look up words.
Chiarissimi entrambi.
Ipotizzo la forma negativa: "I don't keep understanding" 
E' corretta per dire  "continuo a non capire"?
Ciao.

E' corretta per dire  "continuo a non capire"?
Non credo. Anche se lo fosse vorrebbe dire "non continuo a capire"
dato che il don't nega keep.
Per dire quello "I still don't understand".
"I keep moving"	continuo a muovermi
"I don't keep moving"	non continuo a muovermi (e non "continuo a non
muovermi", che sarebbe "I still don't move" o "I am still not moving"
a seconda di significato e contesto).
Sebastiano

 me) site:  
http://www.little-folks.com/stories/
Sempre nella favola leggo:
Whence comes this splendid feast?
Non sarebbe dovuto essere: "Whence does this splendid feast come?" ?
Grazie.

 Max affermň che:

In keeping with the "antiquity" of the story and the speech, an inverted
word order is used, and is not uncommon in this context. Your version isn't
wrong, it's just more "natural" in an ancient context, to use the inverted
word order.


 be safe". Ma negativo... boh.
In English, it would be preferable to say "I still understand", or "I
continue to understand". "I keep understanding" would be comprehended, but
it would sound odd.
For the negative, I think you're looking for:
"I still don't understand."


"I still don't understand."
That's what I said. :)
Sebastiano

 word order.
Lo avevo intuito ma ho preferito esserne sicuro al 100 % :-)
Grazie. 

 >
You might as well be consistent and say "Whence cometh this splendid
feast", if you're going to use archaic English.  :>)
Joe from Massachusetts