Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: una curiosita'...

Perche' si dice "mobile phone" pronuncia (ascii) "mobail"
E "snow mobile" pron. "mobil"?
Grazie

E "snow mobile" pron. "mobil"?
Non lo so.
Però...
uno è aggettivo,
l'altro è sostantivo.
Può essere?
saluti,
Peltio

 Grazie
Prego.  Non c'e' di che.  Call again.
ciao
arianna
Sent via Deja.com 
http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 Grazie
La parola "mobile" in "mobile phone" e' un aggettivo.  Quando e' un
aggettivo si pronuncia(italiano) "mobail" con l'accento sulla o.  In
"snow mobile" la parola "mobile" e' un sostantivo, e si pronuncia
come(italiano) "mobil" con l'accento sulla i.
-- 
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aggettivo si pronuncia(italiano) "mobail" con l'accento sulla o.
L'accento e` sulla a!
Janis

L'accento e` sulla a!
No way, Janis! :)
Vedo gia' ripartire la discussione tra accento primario e accento
secondario... non credo che ce la faro' un'altra volta...
Ciao
Frank
----------------------------------------
I'm so miserable without you,
it's almost like having you here

No way, Janis! :)
Eddai, cerchiamo di ragionare, anzi, cerchiamo un compromesso (devi
farlo, sono stata dieci minuti a pronunciare questa cazzo di parola!
LOL). In effetti se la pronuncio una cosa tipo mob'l allora,
ovviamente, l'accento e` sulla 'o' per mancanza di altri vocali
pronunciate, ma se la parola suona come mobail, io ti giuro che la
dico, e la sento dagli altri, come moba'il.
Gli altri che dicono?
Janis

Che diresti di mo'bail?
Oppure accento lungo sulla o e breve sulla a...
E


Janis
It's /'mo,bail/
In "mobile" the primary stress is on the o.
The secondary stress in on the i.
The vowel stress and pronunciation are similar to:
bromide; bovine; cosine; phone line; road sign; coal mine.
Ciao,
Raymot
[[[[[[[[[[
Ciao, 
Raymot
[[[[[[[[[[


Non mi pronuncio.
ciao
Ari


 Gli altri che dicono?
Tu pensa che non sapevo che esistesse un "accento secondario"...
"o", al mio orecchio, ma il mio referente tipico a Londra e'... indiano!


La pronuncia di "mobile" non dipende affatto dalla categoria
grammaticale (sostantivo o aggettivo), č sempre uguale, sia in "mobile
phone" che in "snow mobile". Se Alfredo ha notato una differenza
fonetica, č perché esistono tre pronunce alternative, ugualmente
corrette: /ail/ (quella piů usata), /il/ e /i:l/ (con la i lunga)e le
espressioni che ha sentito erano pronunciate da persone diverse. Lo
stesso fenomeno si trova anche con parole come "directory" o "dynasty",
pronunciate /di/ e /dai/ rispettivamente.
Per questioni del genere consiglio il tascabile: Daniel Jones: "English
Pronouncing Dictionary", Cambridge University Press, ISBN: 0-521-42586-
7.
Saluti Andreas
(Email: 
andrea...@yahoo.com


bromide; bovine; cosine; phone line; road sign; coal mine.
Makes sense. Do you really think I need all those examples Ray?
Janis

phone" che in "snow mobile". 
[...]
What absolute nonsense! Haven't you read the other responses?
Raymot
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Dear Raymot,
Don't jump to conclusions! Have you looked in one of the monolingual
English dictionaries such as "Longman Dictionary of Contemporary
English" or "Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary"? They will tell you
that what I'v written is not nonsense but hard facts.
By the way, it's just because I'v written the other responses that I
felt I would have to make things clear. Regards.
Andreas


, 
xxx...@miciolink.it
 says...

No, but I had fun making them up :)
Raymot
[[[[[[[[[[[[

Andreas
OK. Then either 1) you have read the dictionary entries wrongly,
or 2) the dictionaries are wrong.
I don't have either of those dictionaries. Could you perhaps
quote verbatim what one of them says?
Ciao,
Raymot
[[[[[[[[[[[[

pronunciate /di/ e /dai/ rispettivamente.
Sei sicuro riguardo a "dynasty" ?
Bye Asoka xx'82
<< However fast you may run, you will never overreach the ball >>

Mi pare necessaria qualche precisazione:
La pronuncia della parola "mobile" non dipende dalla categoria
grammaticale, ma dall'area linguistica. Che si parli di un "mobile"
(cioè un telefonino o una composizione mobile per bambini) o di
"mobile" come aggettivo in "mobile canteen" (cucina da campo, mobile
grocer (droghiere ambulante) o mobile studio (unità di ripresa mobile),
un britanno dirà sempre /mòbail/, un americano invece /mòbi:l/ o /mòbl/.
Ci sono comunque alcuni americanismi (tutti parole composte, scritte
tutto attaccato, ben inteso) che si pronunciano ovviamente
all'americana /mòbi:l/, come ha giustamente osservato Arianna:
automobile (US) = car (GB) = auto
snowmobile (US) = snow-cat (GB) = gatto delle nevi
bookmobile (US) = mobile library (GB) = bibliobus
bloodmobile (US) = mobile blood bank (GB) = autoemoteca
In questi americanismi l'accento è sempre sulla prima sillaba. Quanto a
"automobile", però, ci sono americani che mettono l'accento anche sulla
seconda  - /otomòbi:l/
Per quanto riguarda "dynasty", Asoka, sono sicurissimo che anche qui ci
sono due pronunce alternative: /dinasti/ è quella preferita in
Inghilterra, /dainasti/ quella usata in Usa. Tanto per complicare la
faccenda, in "directory" la differenza di pronuncia è un fenomeno
trasversale, non limitato ad una certa area linguistica.
Ciao. Andreas


Well, Raymot, won't you tell us what makes you think "a mobile" must
always be pronounced /'mo,bi:l/, because it's noun and "mobile home" or
"mobile library" always /'mo,bail/, because it's used as an adjective?
I seems to me that you are pretty alone in holding that opinion. All
the reference books and native speakers I know confirm what Arianna has
stated, quoting the American "Webster" dictionary (see message 3 in
this thread): There are two possible pronunciations (/-bail/ and /-
bi:l/), which are both correct.
There is, of course a difference in usage, /-bi:l/ and the shortened
versions /-bil/ and /-bl/ being American English and /-bail/ British
English. If a handful compounds like clubmobile or bloodmobile are
pronounced /'mo,bi:l/, it's because these are words coined in the USA
and used by Americans. You can't possibly deduce from this fact that
this pronunciation is compulsory whenever "mobile" is used as a noun. I
have never heard any Briton say /'mo;bi:l/ when talking of a
"telefonino", have you?


Dear Arianna,
Say, what is a clubmobile? Is it the thing for transporting golf clubs
that is called "caddy " by the Brits?
Ciao. Andreas


Although the Brits do not use Americanisms like clubmobile,
bloodmobile, bookmobile etc., they occasionally make similar compounds
for the sake of humour, like "Ariannemobile" (= Arianne's car), by
analogy with "Batmobile" (= Batman's car).
Considering the previous discussion, wouldn't it be useful and amusing
to have a British-American dictionary? Speaking of amusement, maybe
this joke will raise a laugh from you:
A British man emigrates to America, but the only job he can find is as
a refuse collector. At one house, he can't find the "trash can", so he
knocks on the door. Nobody answers. After several attempts, a black
woman finally appears at an upstairs window. The Brit asks "Where's
your bin?". She replies "Ah's bin to the bathroom, where's you bin?"
Vive la différence!
Regards and have a nice weekend. Andreas


Andreas
No, I haven't. They call it a /'mo,bail/. 
Interestingly, those toys that hang from the ceiling with strings 
and balanced pieces of wood are also called /'mo,bailz/
There's certainly no one-to-one correspondence between nouns/
adjectives and different pronunciations, and I never suggested
that that was the case.
Ciao, 
raymot
======
Brisbane, Australia
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[

your bin?". She replies "Ah's bin to the bathroom, where's you bin?"
ROFL!!
scusate...
Janis

that is called "caddy " by the Brits?
Actually, the "caddy" is the person who carries the clubs. But maybe they
use little cars nowadays, like the ones for transporting injured players
that you can see in big stadia.


 to have a British-American dictionary?
Ce ne sono già vari, tipo quello che si trova a:
http://www.peak.org/~jeremy/dictionary/dict.html
.
Mary
(remove "spamoff" to reply)
--
"Stop, or I'll say 'Stop' again!" - British Police

My twopence worth:
- mobile is always pronounced "mobìl" when it's part of a compound word like
automobile, popemobile, etc. Apart from that, I can't think of a single instance
where it's pronounced that way except in the place name Mobile (Alabama).
- it's normally pronounced mòbail in both the US and the UK when it's an
adjective; this includes mobile (phone), because the word mobile in that case
was originally an adjective although it's now used as a noun. The things that
dangle from the ceiling are also pronounced mòbails, probably because the word
mobile again was originally an adjective (a mobile toy or something).
- when mobile is an adjective, the Americans sometimes pronounce it mob'l.
Does everyone agree?
Mary
(remove "spamoff" to reply)
--
Last year many lives were caused in automobile accidents.

Gli altri che dicono?
Che hai bisogno di un cornetto acustico. ;o))))))))))))))))
Colgo l'occasione per chiederti scusa di quel perentorio "No way!":
spero tu non l'abbia percepito come troppo aggressivo.
Ciao
Frank
-------------------------------------
Non lasciate i problemi della sovrabbondanza e dell'inappagamento agli
ermafroditi e agli eunuchi!

grammaticale, ma dall'area linguistica.
(snip)
Si' e no, almeno secondo il mio "American heritage dictionary":
l'aggettivo prevede tre pronucie distinte (e qui dipendiamo dall'area
linguistica, come dici tu), ma una sola pronuncia e' prevista per il
sostantivo o "mobile" che fa parte di un sostantivo (come in
automobile).
L'eccezione pare essere il telefonino, ma in questo caso abbiamo un
termine che ha cominciato la sua vita come aggettivo ("mobile phone"),
ma che con la decadenza del "phone" e' diventato sostantivo senza un
mutamento nella pronuncia.
Ciao
Frank
-----------------------------------
Per arrivare alla fonte, bisogna nuotare controcorrente

spero tu non l'abbia percepito come troppo aggressivo.
Nessun problema. :))
Janis

 wrote in message 801vpc$fa3$1...@diesel.cu.mi.it...


Mary, I fully agree with your rule of thumb:
- mobile is always pronounced /mobi:l/ when it's part of a compound
like automobile, popemobile, etc.
- in all other cases it's pronounced /'mo,bail/ (in both the US and
Great Britain)
I doubt, however, that the issue of "mobile" (= a cell phone or a
mobile toy) being a noun or an adjective that is used as a noun, will
help a foreign learner chose the right pronunciation. I think, he would
be less confused without theoretical explanation to the rule of thumb.
Advanced learners might ask themselves:
Why do American dictionaries list the pronunciation /,mo'bi:l/ for
adjectives?. Is this the exception from your rule of thumb?



I haven't a clue.
I don't remember ever hearing an American pronounce it like that. It's
probably a regional thing.
Mary
--
Oldsmobile: Oh Look Dammit, Some Massive Oil Burning Idiot's Leaking
Everything.

Hi everybody, this is probably my first post here and I take the opportunity
to express a sincere WELL DONE to all of you who help us -
non-native-speakers- in improving (or @to improve@?)our  language. May I ask
you what is the rule of the thumb?
Thank you
Dario Leccese


Dear Dario,
A warm welcome to you.
    >Dario L. ha scritto:
    >[....]to all of you who help us -
    >non-native-speakers- in improving (or @to improve@?)our  language.
'in improving' is correct but I would suggest English in place of
'language'.
    >May I ask you what is the rule of the thumb?
the rule of thumb (no 'THE')
An idiomatic expression meaning the general rule...
Why 'rule of thumb' I don't actually know and perhaps someone else will be
able to shed light on
that.
In the hopes that this answers your query and that you will stay among us,
I remain, as always, ecc.,
Bambi
dtb

Hi Dario,
A rule of thumb (una regola empirica approssimativa)is a rough
practical method of assessing something, usually based on past
experience rather than on exact measurement and therefore not
completely reliable in every case or in every detail. Here are few
examples:
"As a rule of thumb, you'll pay 1 Euro a month for each 10 Euro you
borrow"
"A rough rule of thumb is that it is best to ignore chain letters"
"There were a hundred people, by rule of thumb"
"As a rule of thumb, you should cook a chicken for 20 minutes for each
pound that it weighs"


...


 Thank you very much to you both,  Andrea and Bamby,  for your answers.
Bambi, gente, Bamb*i*, per favore!
Anna (a Privy Counsellor)

...
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