Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Followup on the Subjunctive (and an epiphany for Joey)

I did go and find one of my English grammars (you knew I would) and had 
an epiphany. Besides the verb "to be", any other verb used in the 
subjunctive *for the third person, singular* does have a variant form. 
(I'm not telling you so you'll know this: You probably do. I'm telling 
you this because I've just realized it.)
The interesting thing (for me, anyway) is that without even knowing it, I 
use the subjunctive all the time when appropriate. When I saw the 
examples listed, it made me realize it.
   "It is imperative that this package arrive
    (not "arrives") by noon."
   "I insisted that he write (not "writes") an apology."
   "They asked that she remain on the committee."
   "I suggested that she send me a copy."
   ecc.
Are all exactly as I would say them, without even realizing that I'd 
dropped the "s" of the verb.
(Sono venuto qui in questo NG per imparare un po' piu' d'italiano, e 
invece sto imparando l'inglese.)
Bummer! :-)
-- 
Un-not my address if you wanna reply.

 Bummer! :-)
I knew that any phrase that seems to be, uhm... important, requires
the subjunctive, in other words the 's' at the third person singular is
dropped.
for instance, I knew that I can say it both ways
"It's highly important that he copy the following report"
"It's highly important that he copies the following report"
though the first one is more correct (and I think much more elegant too)
than the second one, people
often choose the second phrase because (I guess) it's much simplier.

 invece sto imparando l'inglese.)
This is very common; it's not until English speakers learn a foreign
language that they start to learn something about grammar.  I learnt
most of what grammar I know in Latin classes.
-- 
Mary

 most of what grammar I know in Latin classes.
 
Well, having learned English first, I find it sort of "uninteresting"; 
much less so than Italian. I guess it doesn't *hurt* to learn more of 
it, though. 8-) 
Thanks for your insight.


 often choose the second phrase because (I guess) it's much simplier.
 
I agree the first is more elegant. I don't know that I've heard the 
second all that often (although it's possible to say) but as Mary pointed 
out, an alternate phrasing would probably occur if someone were (!) 
uncertain about the subjunctive: "It's highly important for him to copy 
the following report." 


 > English, who replace it by another form wherever possible.
Mary is, as almost always, either right or damn' near. I'd say this
time it's "damn near" in that the old-fashioned Briteng subjunctive, as
described by Joe, has largely become American. "Who dies if England
live?" is weird in modern Brit English, whereas "lest" constructions
are v. common in Ameng. ("Lest it be forgot, lest it boil, etc).
Briteng subjunctives (and oh yes, they do exist) are usually
constructed with the auxiliary "should". "Lest it should boil over",
although "lest" is no longer very current in Britistan.
Aside to Joe on another posting I missed first time round:
"youse" is also current in much of Ireland and the West of Scotland as
the plural of "you".
Compare and contrast the common 18th-century (educated) usage of "you
was" for singular and "you were" for plural, of which the former is now
far from mainstream. Don't think M'lord said "you is," mind you. Which
would be logical.
-- 
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are v. common in Ameng. ("Lest it be forgot, lest it boil, etc).
<snip>

are v. common in Ameng.
I've never heard of it even in American English.  This is not a case when we'd
use a subjunctive.  Sorry...maybe I got lost in all these quotes and I lost
track of the discussion.  
bye
ari

 wrote:

V bad example on my part, sorry. I meant, really, that the naked
subjunctive (example "Who dies if England live?" or much more plausibly
"Lest the pot boil over") is more common in Ameng than Briteng.
