Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Another silly exercise

"This was the (last, latest) news we had from him before his death".
What would you choose?
I chose "latest", but the expected answer is "last".
In my view, there's only a slight difference in meaning between "last" 
and "latest" and I'm quite convinced that they are basically 
interchangeable.
Kiuhnm

 interchangeable.
Where do these exercises come from?
"This is Adam's latest book." suggests that I could write more in 
future. "This is Adam's last book" could be taken to mean that I
am now dead, or have stopped writing. I'm pretty sure many
native speakers would say "last" in both cases, but I don't
think many people would say "latest" if the author were dead or
had retired.

 had retired.
Then you prefer "latest fashion" to "last fashion", right?
Kiuhnm

 Then you prefer "latest fashion" to "last fashion", right?
Oh, absolutely. "last fashion" sounds utterly wrong.

 Oh, absolutely. "last fashion" sounds utterly wrong.
Unless, of course, it was 'the last fashion we had from him before his 
death/winning the Iditarod/conversion to catholicism'. 

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:462e67b1$0$36448$4faf...@reader5.news.tin.it...

Il fatto che avessero aggiunto "prima della sua morte" avrebbe dovuto farti 
suonare qualche campanellina, pero'.
Se traduci latest con 'piu' recente' e last con 'ultima' (per semplicita') 
capirai che la notizia piu' recente di uno che poi e' morto, e' 
inevitabilmente anche l'ultima e di conseguenza e' 'last' ad essere piu' 
corretto.
Personalmente non credo che i termini siano intercambiabili, anche se 
ovviamente nella lingua parlata tutte le parole simili spesso lo sono, ma 
non piu' di quanto siano intercambiabili 'piu' recente' e 'ultima' in 
italiano (e quindi anche con contesti in cui suonerebbe assurdo usare una al 
posto dell'altra). In ogni caso, per un'indicazione di massima, la parola 
'latest' viene usata per indicare la novita' piu' recente di qualcosa che e' 
sicuramente in evoluzione: la moda (come giustamente hai fatto notare tu 
stesso), la tecnologia, la produzione artistica, ecc. Sempre che non ci sia 
un evento che ne impedisca la produzione (morte, ecc.).
Pero' ora devi togliermi una curiosita'. I tuoi post trasudano depressione, 
almeno io quando li leggo mi angoscio. Sembra che tu stia studiando 
l'inglese contro la tua volonta', come se ci fosse qualcuno che ti sta 
(stia? oggi ho problemi con i verbi) costringendo. E soprattutto sembri non 
avere alcuna soddisfazione ad apprendere ed evolverti. Un atteggiamento che 
ho trovato solo in persone che stanno imparando qualcosa e sono a un livello 
infimo, cosa che non direi affatto del tuo. E' solo una mia impressione 
sbagliata? (lo so, sono affari tuoi, ma mi ha colpito questa cosa).
ciao, Janis 

 suonare qualche campanellina, pero'.
O accendere qualche lampadina! :-)
-- 
"And the whole Earth was of one language, and of one speech". 
(Genesis 11,1)

 sbagliata? (lo so, sono affari tuoi, ma mi ha colpito questa cosa).
I shall never rest til my good is better and my better best...
Kiuhnm

 latest"!
Il tuo problema è che in italiano si dice "ultimo" per entrambi i casi. Una 
volta che hai capito che "last" va usato per gente defunta, sei a posto.
Tschau,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
-- 
Five by five. 

 volta che hai capito che "last" va usato per gente defunta, sei a posto.
Not according to my last post. :-)
(There *will* be others to come.)
-- 
Joey DoWop Dee
Disclaimer:
Ihope to provide readers with acceptable,
viable, correct examples of how an
American speaks day-to-day English.

 volta che hai capito che "last" va usato per gente defunta, sei a posto.
O comunque quando parla di una situazione chiusa e definita, non in
evoluzione. :-)
Per es. confronta
"Of the 62 structural units in the viaduct, only two were damaged in the
last earthquake."  
vs. invece
"Telephone hot-lines for the latest earthquake information. ...".

 evoluzione. :-)
That - don't ask me why - reminds me of a little joke:
- Do ships like this sink *often*?
- No, just once.
Kiuhnm

 I shall never rest til my good is better and my better best...
Sheesh, you sound even more tormented!
ciao, Janis

 (There *will* be others to come.)
There _was_ another to come because if you refer to your 'last post', in a
post, then by definition it is no longer your last. But, putting the having
of fun by confusing Italians aside, 'last' and 'latest' do not have the same
connotations. The meaning of 'latest' is that it is the most recent. There
is a connotation that there was at least one in the past and there may be
others to come, which will in turn become the 'latest'. If you were
referring to something that appeared years ago, you would not use the term
'latest', you would say 'last'. The meaning of 'last' is that of the end of
a series, or the final. Although there may be more to come within the first
definition of 'last', there is no connotation implied that others will
follow. You could use 'last' or 'latest' for many contexts, and they would
charge the sentence with connotations that are similar but not the same, but
there are some contexts in which you must use 'last'. Those contexts are
when it is clear that it is the final appearance.
NB: I wrote this without referring to a dictionary, which I'm sure lists
many other meanings of these words. So this post only applies to the
particular usage in discussion.

 Sheesh, you sound even more tormented!
I will study as though there were no tomorrow.
Kiuhnm

 connotations.
It wasn't my intention to "confuse Italians" but rather to refute Enrico's 
statement, for the purpose of clarifying that "last" is not always used for 
dead people.
And yes, it was intended to be ironic in that there *was* another post.


 dead people.
In fact what I have understood is that I can't use "latest", in that 
situation.
Then what could I use? "Last" comes to mind...
Kiuhnm

 the fun of confusing Italians. It was just a joke.
It confused some Italians! ;-))


 dead people.
Of course it's not, but once you have assimilated that, you're pretty much 
done IMHO.


 I will study as though there were no tomorrow.
Argh!
If the world should end tomorrow, do you really mean you'd spend today
*studying*? ;-)))
-- 
Ciao,
Anna

 *studying*? ;-)))
What if Death spoke English and I couldn't defend my rights?
Kiuhnm

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Excellent argument. (Scary thought, though.)
With my luck, Death will speak Basque.


 With my luck, Death will speak Basque.
Death knows very well that if she began to speak Arabic she will scare 
me (back) to life.
Kiuhnm

 me (back) to life.
Ops... would.
Kiuhnm