Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: 3rd person

USA Today: " Italy wins Cup on penalty kicks"
BBC News: " Italy win World Cup on penalties"
'wins' for the country and 'win' for the team? 

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In the UK, it's quite common to use third person plural for
teams, companies, governments, pop groups and such like.
"Queen have released a new single", and similar. It's not
universal, though.

 wrote in message 
news:1152503847.6...@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
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I' d say that the same non-rule applies to US too -
a  thank you 

dicaduca ha scritto:
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Not quite. Many instances of this usage sound odd to an American-attuned 
ear.
FB

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Yes, at least where I am.
Ari

 wrote in message
news:1152503847.6...@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

In the US, we always use a singular verb. It is easy for us to spot
sports reports as British, when they say Chelsea have defeated Celtic,
etc.
Joe from Massachusetts

 etc.
Yet I found " The White Sox sweep the Astros" on the MLB  official website,
for instance, so I am a little dizzy  about a general rule...


As Joe said, the singular form is predominant, although  you may find a
verb in the plural form from time to time.
ari

 wrote in message
news:GQBsg.35503$zy5.7...@twister1.libero.it...

"White Sox" (white socks) is plural.
Most American baseball, football, and basketball teams have plural
names: Yankees, Red Sox, White Sox, Dodgers, Astros, Saints, Giants,
etc. Therefore, we use a plural verb.
In the WNBA women's basketball league, many teams have singular names:
Storm, Sun, Spark, Mercury, etc., so we use a singular verb, but some
people try to apply the collective rule as the British do in these
cases.
In the NBA, the Miami team, the "Heat", has a singuar name. Teams are
also referred to by city names, and always take a singular verb, thus
"Miami beats Dallas in overtime".
Although there may be some inconsistency among some newspapers about
verb agreement when using team nicknames, there is no inconsistency
when using city names. It is always "Miami sweeps Detroit", although
occasionally you will find "Heat beat Pistons", as well as "Heat beats
Pistons".
There is no logic to our interpretation of the rules for collective
nouns here in the US.
Please don't blame the messenger. :>)
Joe from Massachusetts


wrote:

In Italian, would you always use the third person for a collective
group?
(just checking my own understanding!)
-- 
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DFM - 
http://www.deepfriedmars.com
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 Please don't blame the messenger. :>)
That's just my idea too, and not only on collective nouns: the fact is that
you don't seem to have a grammar as strict as Italians do: you may turn up
your nose at some 'furn' issue but, in the complex, you look much more
tolerant and indulgent in linguistic matters than us. As to blaming the
messenger I am far from just conceiving such an eventuality; on the contrary
I wish to thank you for your contribution :)
hello
dd

 wrote in message
news:wPWsg.36854$_J1.4...@twister2.libero.it...

I'll have you know that my grammar is every bit as strict as yours -
my Italian grammar, that is.
Joe from Massachusetts

 (just checking my own understanding!)
Generally in Italian a collective group is singular, for instance ' la folla
accorre in suo aiuto ' (the crowd rushes to his/her help) , 'il fogliame
copre i prati del parco' (foliage covers the park's meadows) or 'una mandria
di buoi si abbevera al fiume' (a herd of cattle is watering in the river),
but while you  say, for instance, "the committee is/are expected to report
later this month" or " the committee consists of five men and six women" or
" the committee are all hard-working people", in Italian there is not such
variability . However,  sometimes, when it is followed by a complement of
specification you could also find a plural verb with a collective group:
'uno stormo di gabbiani volava/ volavano sul mare' (a flock of seagulls
was/were flying above the sea) but the latter is disregarded even if
tolerated. This particularly occurs, in a sort of Englishization (can I say
so?) with 'la maggior parte di'  or 'la maggioranza' (most) which is often
used with plural verbs like in English: 'la maggior parte degli italiani
pensano che...'(most Italians think that...) as the verb is next to a plural
name: so it is right to say 'la maggioranza degli italiani pensa che...' but
you can frequently hear it with the plural verb in the sense of many or
some. One more example: 'un sacco di turisti parte questa settimana' (A lot
of tourists are leaving this week ) is much more frequent than 'is leaving'.
I am sure that, following this explanation, your understanding will grow
worse, but I trust in more skilled people in the ng to help explain better
:)
hello
dd

 Joe from Massachusetts
I bet your Italian is better than my English ;)
dd