Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Alcune cosette

1) A poker "to bid" č "fare una dichiarazione"? Are there other ways to
say it? Which is the commonest?
2) "To stare someone down": can it only mean "fissare qualcuno fino a
fargli abbassare lo sguardo", or is "to look down on someon", "to look
down one's nose at sb." ("guardare dall'alto in basso") a possible
interpretation? I haven't the slightest evidence to the second
interpretation, but I'm stubborn...
3) "Two-demand bid": has it to do with auctions by any chance? What is it,
anyway?
Denghiu, eh!
Bye, FB
-- 
Does one go to hell for plonking God?
(Default User on alt.usage.english, answering a message from a troll
called "God")

 anyway?
Dichiarazione/chiamata al due (al bridge o a briscola).
W.

 Gli è che degli inglesi affamati mi hanno chiesto di preparare un
risotto per un centinaio di persone. [...] pericoli? [...]
Che la pentola ti cada addosso sotterrandoti. (sai che speciale di Studio
Aperto che viene fuori)
(Dott. Vernes su it.hobby.cucina)

 fargli abbassare lo sguardo",
Yes.
Joe from Massachusetts

 Ah, e sei sicuro? Pe' scrupolo... (faccina sorridente)
In effetti la briscola non c'entra proprio.
W.

 "Bid" è la dichiarazione o licita.
As to this, I assure you and Joe that the sentence "bid in a poker game"
is used. The two-demand bid needn't have anything at all to do with poker,
mind you. They're two different things.
[...]
Bye, FB
-- 
L'importante è che risplenda tu, sola primadonna e immarcescibile leggenda
del tuo pianerottolo.
(Lucangel su it.cultura.libri)


I repeat, "bid" is NEVER used in Poker.
You can bet, you can raise, you can call, you can fold, you can bluff,
but you can't bid.
Joe from Massachusetts

 mind you. They're two different things.
Se può servire, tempo fa avevo trovato questo bel glossario (solo in
inglese) sul poker:
http://www.gaminggurus.com/slang.shtml
HTH
-- 
Ciao,
Anna



Thanks. No "bid" there. The very sentence is this:
"[...] who whenever he spoke sounded as though he was bidding in a poker
game"
Maybe "bidding" means something else, or maybe the author (T. Capote)
knows nothing about poker.
Bye, FB
-- 
"It is not idiocy, father, I assure you." "What is it then, sir?" "Well,
it is what is called nowadays a high moral tone, father. That is all."
"Hate these new-fangled names. Same thing as we used to call idiocy fifty
years ago. Shan't stay in this house any longer."
("An Ideal Husband", Oscar Wilde)

 knows nothing about poker.
Però Google dà centinaia di occorrenze per "bid poker", forse vale la pena
di approfondire.
Dubito che Truman fosse digiuno di poker.
Meraviglioso scrittore. Rendigli un buon servizio, eh? :)
-- 
Ciao,
Anna

 Meraviglioso scrittore. Rendigli un buon servizio, eh? :)
Cough cough... In che senso? Saprai che era... Ecco, io non era... Almeno,
non credo.
Ciao, FB
-- 
Se dico "siedi!" manca l'oggetto.
Siedo chi? Lei o me?
(da it.cultura.linguistica.italiano)

 non credo.
Non fare lo zucconcello (cit.), mi hai capito benissimo :)
-- 
Ciao,
Anna

 di approfondire.
[...]
Maybe its meaning is more general in poker (for those who use it or used
to): something along the lines of "taking a decision", so any one among
betting, raising, calling etc. I'll look into it.
Bye, FB
-- 
Conversation like television set on honeymoon: unnecessary.
(Murder by Death)

 knows nothing about poker.
Some card games, such as bridge, require 'bidding'. Typically 'betting' is
used for poker since you are wagering a sum of money on the outcome of the
game. In bridge you 'bid', as you would in an auction, for 'the contract' of
the 'hand'.
http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/id-993.html
To use 'bid' in place of 'bet' in poker would be an error, but not an error
so great as to confuse the listener because of the similarity of the terms
in sound, in meaning, and in use.

 in sound, in meaning, and in use.
I've written about it on it.hobby.giochi---it seemed
appropriate---although more opinions are very welcome on this ng. I quote
the information I found on the Internet with which I provided them.
QUOTE
(
http://www.gamedesire.com/la-it,giochi.online-poker.texas.holdem.up,n-21,sub-4.html#BID
)
*Bid*:
Bidding is one of the most important things in Poker. Generally it's
process of making simultaneous BETS regarding to the VALUE OF CARDS in
HAND. 
UNQUOTE
QUOTE
(
http://www.neo-tech.com/poker/appendixc.html
)
*Bid* --To declare for high or low in split-pot poker.
UNQUOTE
Un po' di definizioni incrociate.
QUOTE
(
http://www.usplayingcard.com/gamerules/glossary-index.html
)
*Bid*. An offer to contract to win a certain number of tricks or points in
play; to make a bid.
Bidder. 1) Any player who makes a bid. 2) The player who makes the highest
bid and assumes the contract.
Call. 1) Declare, bid, or pass. 2) Bridge. Any pass, double, redouble or
bid. 3) Poker. Make a bet exactly equal to the last 
previous bet.
Contractor. The high bidder.
Declaration. Call; bid; naming of a trump suit or game. 2) The trump suit
or game as named in a bid.
Declare. 1) Call; bid; name the trump. 2) Announce; meld.
Declarer. 1) Bridge. The player who plays both his own hand and the dummy.
2) See Bidder (2).
Go Over. Bid higher.
UNQUOTE
I, too, would think it just means "bet". I know nothing about poker, so
it's not my wish to compete with anyone; still, as Anna has pointed out,
there happen to be lots of occurrences of "bid" and "bidding" with
reference to poker, and in sites that are apparently pretty specialized.
Bye, FB
-- 
bludiesel, una voce fuori dal coro.
...o un cretino?
(RedWiz su it.arti.cinema)

 reference to poker, and in sites that are apparently pretty specialized.
This isn't a question of competition, it's a question of identifying the 
appropriate and standard use of a common English term. I haven't seen even 
one valid example of the use of 'bid' as standard poker lingo. The act of 
'bidding' is different than 'betting' and the two words convey that 
distinction in their connotations. It appears to me, without having read 
Capote's book, that he was just a little sloppy in writing that sentence. 
Or, he was more familiar with bridge than with poker, and confused the 
terminology.
Your skepticism is laudable since it's better to make judgments based on 
data rather than on authority, but the data in this situation is 
overwhelming on the side of author error. 

 terminology.
Do you understand what it's supposed to mean, though? That is "This is
wrong. He must have meant ...", or do you think it might be any term that
is used in poker?
[...]
Bye, FB
-- 
I sometimes get the feeling that those who teach the language know less
about it than anybody.
(Don Aitken on alt.usage.english)


In the US, there is currently a great interest in "Texas Hold-em
Poker", and there are several TV channels which show celebrity
tournaments (where the winnings are donated to charity) and
professional tournaments (where the players keep their winnings, and
the stakes are very high). Poker can be seen on the Bravo channel, on
the ESPN sports channel, and on several other channels. It has become
a craze in the past few years. This particular variation of Poker is
popular because the "standard" game of Poker is considered too boring.
I occasionally watch some of the celebrity tournaments because the
comments by the players are entertaining, and the game can be
interesting. You won't see or hear the word "bid" during any of these
tournaments.
Truman Capote probably never played a game of Poker in his life. In a
review of the biographical film about Capote, a reviewer wrote, "If a
pussycat could speak, it would sound like Truman Capote".
It would have been more his style to play Bridge with Nonno Libero
(quello che ha salvato una famiglia di Ebrei), than to play Poker with
a bunch of cigar-chomping, beer-swilling lugs in the back room of the
local tavern.
Joe from Massachusetts

 Adamo ed Eva hanno mangiato la mela, ricordalo.
Sě, e l'eden era in Val di Non.
(Yunan, the Red Comet su it.cultura.religioni.cristiani)

 is used in poker?
I expect that he meant 'betting' but without knowing anything else about the
character it's hard to know for certain. There is an expression 'poker face'
that means 'an expressionless face' and refers to the avid poker player's
attempt to hide emotions and reveal as little as possible to his adversary.
I would guess that when Capote wrote "whenever he spoke sounded as though he
was bidding in a poker game", he probably meant that the character spoke
without revealing any hint of excitement, as if he were betting in a poker
game.

 anyway?
I've never heard of it but a quick google leads one to believe that it is a
bidding strategy in bridge.
http://www.academyll.org/Winter_2004.htm
BEGINNING BRIDGE 2
Lessons cover three conventions (Blackwood, Stayman and Gerber) and
specialty situations like Slam Bidding, the Takeout Double, the Two-Demand
Bid, and the Preemptive Bid.

 to bet (poker) = scommettere
Or "puntare".
[...]
Ciao, FB
-- 
Una volta ho comprato un salmone all'Ikea.
Sono arrivato a casa.
Era da montare.
(citato da Alessandro "Il Patriarca" Valli su
it.cultura.linguistica.italiano)


I haven't seen the film yet, but I have heard that Philip Seymour
Hoffman, the actor who plays Capote, is outstanding in the role, even
though he is nothing like Capote in real life. I saw an interview with
Hoffman, where the interviewer asked Hoffman to recreate his
characterization of Capote for the television audience, but Hoffman
refused, saying "That's all behind me now", suggesting that portraying
this spiritually and emotionally troubled man had taken an emotional
toll on him.
It is interesting to note that Capote's assistant during the period of
his life which is recounted in this film, when he was researching the
book "In Cold Blood" in Kansas, was Harper Lee, a childhood friend,
whose novel "To Kill a Mockingbird" was about to be published. This
powerful moral tale became one of the classics of modern American
literature.
Joe from Massachusetts

 immediatamente di che cosa si parla?
Con Google non si trova molto, si arriva pero' a
http://web2.acbl.org/nabcbulletins/1997spring/db6.pdf
 che fornisce il
resoconto di una partita di bridge in cui e' usata la "two-demand bid".
Non sono esperto di bridge, comunque... esistono dei sistemi convenzionali
usati nella parte dichiarativa del gioco (Blackwood, Stayman e Gerber se
non ricordo male), una "bid" non sempre significa che vuoi fare n prese di
quel seme, ma serve a chiedere al tuo compagno di fare la sua dichiarazione
in un certo modo (che non ha nulla a che vedere con quello che hai
dichiarato). Nel testo trovato con Google si legge che il compagno/a di
Ellen Dilbert apre dichiarando 2 fiori, e questa dichiarazione e' definita
"two-demand bid", al suo turno E.D. dichiara due prese a cuori, dal che mi
sembra deducibile che una "two-demand bid" serva a chiedere al proprio
compagno di dichiarare due prese nel seme da lui preferito.
Ovviamente mi posso facilmente sbagliare.
'bye

 Con Google non si trova molto, si arriva pero' a
In effetti, poi qualcosa ho trovato: non avevo pensato a scrivere "2" in
cifre.
[...]
Ciao, FB
-- 
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