Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: un dubbio: who/whom

1) This is the Giovanna I much talked you about. 
(sono abbastanza sicuro)
2) This is the Giovanna who I much talked you about. 
(sono relativamente certo).
3) This is the Giovanna about whom I much talked. 
(sono abbastanza sicuro)
4) This is the Giovanna whom I much talked you about. 
(sono abbastanza scettico).
note:
- il "the" è perché è one precise Giovanna among the many (Giovannas)
that there can be;
- il "much" è perché è uncountable (il parlare);
Grazie per le delucidazioni, spero di non aver detto skdfhuate.
Ciao

 Grazie per le delucidazioni, 
Ringrazia la despazzola che delucida. ;-D

 E' la frase che direi anch'io.
"Much"?
[...]
Bye, FB
-- 
"Are you sure an embryo parson should have a plane?"
"Everyone should have a plane!"
(Cold Comfort Farm, the film)

 (sono abbastanza scettico).
argh!
Orribili tutti e 4.
Maybe:
This is the Giovanna I've told you so much about.
I don't like the "the" in front of the name much, though I've certainly
heard
things like "So you're this 'Adam' I've been hearing so much about".
I'm not
sure I've heard this kind of thing used by the person doing the
introducing,


None of them are acceptable, even coming from the much-talked-about
Giovanni.
The problem is more with the phrase "I much talked" rather than with
"who" or "whom".
Let's see if any of the other Italians agree.
Joe from Massachusetts

 This is the Giovanna I've told you so much about.
Ok if you stress "Giovanna" just the right way. Otherwise it would
sound
really odd.
Best to stick to:
This is Giovanna, whom I've told you so much about.
(or "about whom I've told you so much", if you prefer)

 Ti ho detto la mia, ma non sono un madrelingua inglese.
Appunto...
-- 
Enrico C
* cut the ending "cut-togli.invalid" string when replying by email *

 (or "about whom I've told you so much", if you prefer)
Secondo una grammatica online "whom" non potrebbe essere staccato
dalla preposizione. Ma, come al solito, le grammatiche non sono legge,
tanto meno quelle online... :)


 sound really odd.
Su Google si trovano alcuni esempi. Come al solito, non è detto che
gli esempi pescati su Google siano corretti, o appropriati al caso in
discussione! :)
"no not the John I talked about in my dairy."
americanwomen.mydeardiary.com/entry.html?de_key=1389092
 - 21
"Now that's the Mary I know."
www.anglocatholicsocialism.org/mary.html
"That is the Mary I will always remember, ..."
www.ndhsdons.org/services/tribute.htm
Sul sito 
bbc.co.uk
:
"This is the Mary of popular imagination - a. serene, beautiful young
woman in her twenties. But history suggests that the real woman would
have been a very different person..."
www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2002/12_december/12/mary_pack_realmary.pdf
 
"What's especially good is that this is the John Crichton who is on
Moya: last week we had the one on Talyn."
www.bbc.co.uk/cult/farscape/story/losing.shtml
"Who is the David we celebrate on St David's Day? A: David Beckham B:
David Copperfield C: David, the Patron Saint of Wales ..."
news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_4300000/newsid_4307200/4307233.stm
 

 (or "about whom I've told you so much", if you prefer)
How about
"This is Giovanna, about whom I've talked (/ been talking) to you so
much."
?


> talked you
Semmai: "talked to you"

 "Much"?
Hai ragione, "much talked" si usa solo in forma passiva, AFAIK:
"Victory" by Joseph Conrad
 "Though you are a much talked-about man, Mr. Heyst..." 
http://books.google.it/books?vid=ISBN0140189785&id=jpg8Z83hliMC&pg=PA39&lpg=PA39&dq=%22much+talked%22&vq=%22much+talked%22&prev=http://books.google.it/books%3Fq%3D%2522much%2Btalked%2522%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a&sig=-h1DTFwea_mqKHIK3_AcpDzjsh0&pli=1&auth=DQAAAHwAAADISc7nw6QnqrIE--Pedr1CKTP2CFMnOh4qxmU9fBM6mbRS-vDuP7gYg95nccvpwi2JjcMWbZWNImDF3pWYtWWg4594E2Rm6dWeTZMH5jp_SQ0cgqfx2eHsDw_PpNWAiuoFVo16GsE-EQFb3vNfaq--1EpvTvBCmpOotz4d5HrNwQ

 (sono abbastanza scettico).
They're all awkward. If I were determined to use 'talked,' I'd say:
(Formal) This is the Giovanna about whom I've talked to you so much.
(Casual) This is the Giovanna I've talked to you so much about. 


I agree with Adam.  They all sound strange.  That sounds like something
an EFL student would say.
ari

"Much"?
come sennò?

This is the Giovanna I've told you so much about.
ah, c'hai ragione.
ma la domanda rimane:
che ne è di 
this is the Giovanna about whom I've told you so much?
etc
e poi quel so si deve proprio mettere? così c'è una sfumatura che non
mi va.
ps the è perché è una specifica Giovanna tra le tutte Giovanne che
possono esistere.
grazie, ciao

tanto meno quelle online... :)
in effetti era quello che sapevo pure io.
o meglio a me viene naturale usarlo staccato da una preposizione solo
quando una preposizione non c'è, ossia in un complemento diretto.
cito per esempio il titolo di Metro di un anno fa, di cui vi ho forse
già parlato:
Shipman - Youngest victim was a girl of 4, the first was a patient who
he found annoying
io avrei sicuramente messo "whom", e forse mi suona anche un po'
strano il "first" al posto del "first one". chissà se è corretto.
sicuramente l'hanno fatto per farci entrare tutto il titolo.
vediamo che rispondono.

an EFL student would say.
cos'è EFL?

 cos'è EFL?
English as First Language. :)
Max
PS: "English as a Foreign Language"