Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Harry Potter (and a question for Ron)

It looks as though Italy hasn't been touched by the Harry
Potter fever that elsewhere is mowing down an outstanding
number of victims.
During my August holiday in Britain, I couldn't do without
noticing a big book with a boy and a dragon depicted on
it that was being sold (and read) everywhere, from bookshops
to buttchers'. I was soon to discover that it was the brand
new publication of "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire".
After a couple of weeks I decided to run the risk of showing
up my ignorance on the matter, and I entered a bookshop
in Inverness where a a shop assistant in his early thirties
was glad to help me.
Of course I deceived my real intentions buying a book of
Scottish Fairy Tales and then, almost by chance, I asked:
"Who on hell is this fellow Harry Potter?"
For a while a young open mouthed man looked at me
wondering whether he was talking with an alien, but after
having recovered from the surprise he was able to shed
some light on my doubts.
I said: "It looks like these books are meant for children"
"They should", he replied with sparkling eyes and trembling
voice, "but everybody likes them and everybody reads them".
His eyes revealed that at least he had!
The result? I travelled back home with a new book in my bags,
"Harry Potter and the philosopher's stone", the first of the
series.
Now that I have finished it, I must confess that J.K. Rowling
(the author) is *not at all* the new Tolkien, as I had been led
to believe.
Nonetheless, the book is pleasant and (being written for
children) I think it also represents a good choice for those
looking for some reading in English to improve their
vocabulary!
I myself have learned a lot of terms which will be useful when
I'll start practicing abroad my skills as a wizard....
I think I'll soon read the other Harry Potter books, including
"H.P. and the Goblet of Fire" and maybe I'll understand why
it's being treated as the literary masterpiece of the Millennium!
Now, the question for Ron: browsing through the Internet,
I discovered that the US edition of "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's
Stone" has been translated in "Harry Potter
and the Sorcerer's Stone"!!!!
Given that everybody in the world knows what is a
"philosopher's stone", I'm really curious about the reasons
that led to this change of title.
More than that, I wonder whether it's usual to "translate" book
titles (or the book themselves) from English to American....
saluti a tutti
Gennaro
(corrections always welcome!)
--
Per rispondere eliminare ".HELL" dall'indirizzo.
To reply remove ".HELL" from the end of the address.
------

 (corrections always welcome!)
Dear Gennaro,
You have gone some long way towards answering some queries I have had
regarding the 'nature' of the Harry Potter books, which as you so rightly
point out, seem to be on everybody's 'must read' list these days. I am
heartened (as I suspect you were) to discover that J.R Rowling is not the
new Tolkien (There Can Be Only One after all), but having now read your
opinion (and sought those of the Lady Ann, whom I trust will forgive me for
mentioning her here) I am of a mind to read one of the books in question for
myself.
With regards to corrections, since your spam-proof e-mail address includes
HELL, I shall limit myself to pointing out that the expression in English
which you quote is "Who IN hell is...".
The road goes ever on and
I remain, as always, Bambi
dtb

 titles (or the book themselves) from English to American....
I can only guess the reason, but you can be certain it is related to money. Not
everyone in the US is familiar with the term "philosopher's stone." Alchemy was
not a current subject when the grammar school curriculum was first developed
here. However, we have an innate understanding of the allegorical principle, and
sand is regularly turned into gold through clever processing, the addition of
trace chemicals, and packaging with large quantities of hype.* This essential
ingredient, not to be confused with "hemp" but resulting in the same stupefying
effect, may be the source of the change in title.
A Disney cartoon called "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" was a financial success but
I doubt that there ever was a title that used the word "philosopher" with the
same effect. Marketers don't like to take chances with unproven words. The word
"philosopher" generally suggests someone who thinks rather than acts. The word
"sorcerer," on the other hand, implies the kind of unbridled, unnatural power
that excites the imagination of every prepubescent authoritarian. I wouldn't be
surprised if the US version were ever released in Britain that it would sell
better than the original.
Regarding the translation of titles and books from British to US English, I
haven't noticed or inquired about the practice. If it happens for books, I
imagine it would only be to update the spelling.
Ciao,
Ron
USA
* hype: read "enthusiastic promotion through advertising"

 imagine it would only be to update the spelling.
.........backdate          :-)           Ian
Sent via Deja.com 
http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 titles (or the book themselves) from English to American....
It happens all the time, and the cover picture can get changed too :-)
Films can also be differently titled. Perchč? Chi sa. 
We may all speak English (we who do, that is) - but is it the _same_
English? ;-))))
cheers,
Loki
-- 
lo...@REMOVE-ASGARDclear.net.nz

Having read all the books and having completed the requirements for a
Master's degree in philosophy, I will say that the things discussed in
Harry are more a matter of a sorcerer rather than a acadamicien
following St. Thomas, or Averoes, or Pascal.
Martin

 Films can also be differently titled. Perchč? Chi sa.
Dunno. The incoming Harry Potter's movie in Italy will be titled 'Harry
Potter agente dell'FBI' ;-)
Ciao
Giorgio

 that led to this change of title.
I think that this quotation from Terry Pratchett, the only British author
with a success comparable to that of J.K. Rowling, that has experienced
apparently some similar problems with his US books (and movies),  will
answer to you:
"It's not Brits who think American readers are a bunch of whinging morons
with the geo-social understanding of a wire coathanger, it's American
editors."
-- Setting the record straight (Terry Pratchett, alt.fan.pratchett)
Ciao
Giorgio

 vocabulary!
Prendo spunto dal mail di Gennaro per una questione o due sulle traduzioni
di Harry Potter.
Premesso che la traduzione italiana di Marina Astrologo è sicuramente
valida, alcune scelte nella traduzione dei nomi mi hanno lasciato perplesso.
Uno dei personaggi principali della saga è il Direttore della Scuola di
Hogwarts, il saggio e sagace Albus Dumbledore, che viene tradotto con 'Albus
Silente'.  Ora invece 'dumbledor' è il bombo, detto anche 'bumblebee'.
Presumo che la traduttrice si sia attaccata a 'dumb', ma rimango dell'idea
che abbia travisato l'intenzione originale della Rowling. Anche, perchè, non
penso che l'autrice avrebbe voluto rappresentare tanto personaggo con un
aggettivo, 'dumb', che può anche far suonare il nome come 'Albus
Deficiente'.
Mi lascia ancora più perplesso la 'traduzione' del nome McGonagall con
McGrannitt. In questo caso, non riesco neanche a capire se c'è un gioco di
parole nel nome originale ('gall' è la galla del legno o c'è qualche cosa
che sto mancando ?), e non mi sembra che il nome sia impervio più di Mc
Grannitt per le ugole italiane.
Grazie a chi vorrà por mente a queste questioni.
Giorgio

 my bookshop ! He is in disguise, but ...
Don't remind me that.
This is what happens to me all the time.
saluti,
Peltio

imagine it would only be to update the spelling.
I've just remembered why I haven't had this message purged yet.
It does happen for books indeed, but it works both ways actually:
Erica Jong's latest novel, "Inventing Memory", was published in the UK
with a different title (that I can't remember, but was radically
different). 
Another example (a foreign book in this case) would be Primo Levi's
masterpiece "Se questo e' un uomo", literally translated as "If This
Is a Man" for publication in the UK, whereas it's called "Survival in
Auschwitz" in its US edition. Interesting, huh?
Ciao,
-- 
Isa
Work like you don't need money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no one's watching
http://web.tiscalinet.it/alfabeto_auschwitz/

Isa
ciao
Gennaro


sopravvivenza *dopo* Auschwitz.
Nel caso di SQEU direi proprio di no: il libro e' narrato al presente,
"nel campo", e l'ultimo capitolo e' scritto in forma di diario. Una
cronaca puntuale della sopravvivenza giorno per giorno *dentro*. La
sensazione di cui parli, IMHO, e' molto piu' forte ne La tregua
("Moments of Reprieve", by the way).


("Moments of Reprieve", by the way).
Il film di Turturro tratto da "La Tregua", invece, nella versione
statunitense e' stato tradotto proprio con "The Truce"!
----
Piccola nota a margine: qualche tempo fa mi era capitato
di seguire per un po' il newsgroup news.groups (frequentato
soprattutto da americani). Visto che li' si discute la
creazione di nuovi newsgroups, capita spesso di vedere
thread lunghi e molto accesi.
Proprio su news.groups ho imparato la (non scritta) "Legge
di Godwin" secondo la quale chi, per rispondere
ad un suo "avversario", fa un qualsivoglia riferimento al
nazismo o ai nazisti perde qualsiasi 'vantaggio' abbia acquisito
nel corso del thread con altre argomentazioni... :-))
Se vi diverte, ecco alcuni messaggi nei quali viene citata:
http://x62.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=611098937&CONTEXT=974457596.7942
30801&hitnum=5
http://x62.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=555657524&CONTEXT=974457596.7942
30801&hitnum=18
http://x62.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=680372270&CONTEXT=974457596.7942
30801&hitnum=3
http://x62.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=686888586&CONTEXT=974457596.7942
30801&hitnum=2
http://x62.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=644416209&CONTEXT=974457596.7942
30801&hitnum=0
http://x62.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=602363442&CONTEXT=974457596.7942
30801&hitnum=7


statunitense e' stato tradotto proprio con "The Truce"!
Il film e' di Francesco Rosi, con protagonista John Turturro nella
parte di Levi. Tra l'altro, duole dirlo, una boiata pazzesca.


 Is a Man".
Inoltre perchè l'autore non è famoso negli Stati Uniti e poche persone
conoscerebbero di che si trattava il libro.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 USA
Chi è Primo Levi?
Loki
PS. Ho letto Viktor Frankl però.
-- 
lo...@REMOVE-ASGARDclear.net.nz

 Chi č Primo Levi?
Primo Levi was an Italian chemist from Turin. He was of  Jewish persuasion, but
was more of a scientist than a religious man. During World War II he was
captured while attempting to join the resistance and was incarcerated in
Auswitz. After the war he wrote about his experience. He died not that many
years ago from a fall down a staircase in his home. It was deemed a suicide by
most, although I'm not sure why. I'm sure you can find a lot written about him
by entering his name in an internet search engine.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 entering his name in an internet search engine.
Sensible suggestion Ron :-)
cheers,
Loki
-- 
lo...@REMOVE-ASGARDclear.net.nz

most, although I'm not sure why. 
Most close friends and relations maintain he had been severely
depressed for months before the fatal fall and that, coupled with the
fact that suicide has been a common end for Auschwitz survivors, led
most observers to write off his death as suicide.
