Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: sun - sung

The words "sun" and "sung" sound very alike.
Let's see if you can tell them apart:
http://www.manythings.org/mp/m21.html
(Click on "[listen, Then choose]" (and select the right word) many times).
Kiuhnm

 ha scritto:

Grazie del link. Interessanti anche gli esercizi sulle altre "coppie"!
Ma le pronunce che si sentono sono quelle tipiche americane?

):
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They're typical pronunciations for standalone, inflected speech.
-- 
Joe/Joey da New York
English as she is spoken (and sometimes written) in the US

 They're typical pronunciations for standalone, inflected speech.
What do you mean by "inflected speech"?

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While looking for "inflected speech", I found this:
http://www.musicalratio.com/gesture.html
It doesn't answer your question but I thought it was interesting so I 
posted it anyway :-)
BTW, I think that Joe meant "exaggerated" or "stressed".
Kiuhnm

 
I guess what I mean is if someone says:
"Read this word: D-I-F-F-E-R-E-N-T"
one is more apt to eNUNciate clearly, in this case pronouncing all three 
syllables.
Pronouncing single words outside of the context of a sentence or phrase often 
results in a sound very different (i.e.: DIF-r&nt") from normal uninflected 
(and rapid) conversational speech.
I wasn't thinking of the musical context...
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 I wasn't thinking of the musical context...
It appears to me that the term uninflected can only mean "without 
alterations in pitch or tone" in this case 
(
http://www.audioenglish.net/dictionary/uninflected.htm
).
The other two meanings don't seem to apply because they're not related 
to pronunciation.
Kiuhnm

 (and rapid) conversational speech.
[...]
Thanks for the clarification. 
Insomma, leggere scandendo i suoni, il che peraltro porta a pronunciarli
diversamente che nel parlato veloce...
Un esempio che mi viene in mente ï¿œ "often", a volte letto molto diversamente da
solo oppure all'interno di una frase pronunciata normalmente.

 normalmente.
Which, by the way, I haven't still figured out how to pronounce. Some says 
"ofn", others say oft@n/oft3n and, according to the dictionaries, they're 
all fine... 

 
Yes, so take your pick! More common around here is OFFn.


> Yes, so take your pick! More common around here is OFFn.
By the way, would you agree that, in your neck of the woods, the words
"often" and "orphan" are homophones?
Bob
-- 
questo articolo e` stato inviato via web dal servizio gratuito 
http://www.newsland.it/news
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ab...@newsland.it

 
Not in my neck of the woods (nor even in my shoulder or abdomen of the 
woods:) but you put me in mind of "Pirates of Penzance," (Gilbert & Sullivan) 
in which the word "often," spoken with their British accent, is homophonic 
with "orphan," and in fact there are several occasions in the script where 
someone or other will ask:
"When you say 'often' (which sounds like 'orphan') do you mean 'often' as in 
'a child who has lost its parents' or 'often': frequently?"
I'm not sure I was able to convey the situation or the humor (find the DVD 
and rent it) but a few of us have picked up on the joke, and we repeat it 
every time -- *every time!* someone says the word "often." It gets obnoxious! 
:-)
And back to your question: around here it's like AW-fn, but not quite so 
broad an AW.
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):
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Odds bodkins, you are right! I stand corrected: I've been using that word 
erroneously for eons!
What I was trying to convey was "normal, unexaggerated speech;  
non-emphasized, as when one speaks naturally, conversationally" as opposed to 
in a standalone situation.
I shall cease to use the word in that context post-haste!
Thanks.


 'a child who has lost its parents'
:DDD

Very interesting reference, thanks, the dvd is already on its way from
Amazon.
Today in the UK only the toffs (the aristocrats) would say "often"
like "orphan".
However, in fairness, I fail to understand how a true U.S. Eastern
accent (fully non-rhotic) would make a difference between the two.
If I can ask you 3 more questions:
1 do you make a difference between "sort" and "sought"?
2 do you make a difference between "cot" and "caught"?
3 do you make "father" rhyme with "bother"?
In your shoulder of the woods, that is (I would expect NO to all the
three questions).
Bob

 accent (fully non-rhotic) would make a difference between the two.
Why? The "r" sound is very strong in American English and it modifies 
vowel sounds.
For instance, listen to
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/often
and
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/orphan
Kiuhnm

 vowel sounds.
Well, they say that if you move to the Apple from other parts of the
US you need to drop your Rs.
Roberto

):
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["Pirates" is a great entertainment. Hope you enjoy it.]
Well, now you've progressed nearly into my armpit of the woods, but here are 
my answers.
1. Yes, definitely. "Sort" has an R in it, which although not pronounced, 
causes the vowel to remain as though the R *is going to be pronounced.* It 
just isn't. "Sought" has the broad AW sound, no hint of a missing R.
2. Yes, but only slightly and only sometimes. Same vowel sound, just slightly 
longer in "caught." Why sometimes? If I hunted all day and finally caught 
someone, I'd exclaim "I caught him! He was sleeping on a cot!" and there 
would be no difference in that case.
3. Only when my father bothers me. No: joking aside, they do not rhyme at 
all. (Only in very bad poetry, maybe.)
With regard to often/orphan: In my old neck of the woods (Boston), the R of 
"orphan" would most likely not be pronounced, leaving a vowel sound very 
difficult (for me, anyway) to describe. It's not the AW sound of 'often.'
If you were to say the word 'oar' but drop the R and shorten the vowel a bit, 
you'd come close to the sound I mean. Stick 'fn' onto that.
Orphan: Oa(r)fn vs Often: AWfn. (Sorry I'm not versed in IPA.)
Similarly: Sort Soa(r)t
Good grief. Now I can't speak at all.... I'm tongue-tied. :-)
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 vowel sounds.
I don't know if this is the case with "orphan", but there are some areas 
  in the east coast where they don't pronounce all the r's. I was once 
told that they do that in New England, but I don't know how reliable 
that information is.
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.

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What I'm interested in is whether or not the surrounding vowel sounds 
are affected.
Joe said
"1. Yes, definitely. "Sort" has an R in it, which although not 
pronounced, causes the vowel to remain as though the R *is going to be 
pronounced.* It just isn't."
Kiuhnm


You are in error in two out of three cases.
Joe from Massachusetts
(formerly of Manhattan, the Bronx, and New Jersey)

 wrote in message
news:4abdec08$0$830$4faf...@reader5.news.tin.it...
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The New York tendency would be to pronounce it almost like "sawt", much like
the tendency to say "cawfee" instead of coffee, or "chawklit" instead of
chocolate. (Mmm.. how do you pronounce chocolate?).


 wrote in message
news:WEwvm.6542$kC....@newsfe11.iad...
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The tendency to overemphasize the pronunciation of words similar to these is
probably the most difficult for the native New Yorker to eliminate from his
speech when he tries to throw off his dialectal trappings. (Door/daw,
floor/flaw, more/maw, coffee/cawfee, chocolate/chawklit, sort/sawt,
forth/fawth, port/pawt, etc.). These words are the words which identify a
New Yorker as a New Yorker when he speaks, more than any other words.
Joe from Massachusetts

 Joe from Massachusetts
What do you mean by "New Yorker"? All sorts of New Yorkers? Any native from 
Manhattan, the Bronx, Brooklyn, State Island and Queens would speak that way?

 New Yorker as a New Yorker when he speaks, more than any other words.
That's very interesting. Thank you!
Kiuhnm

 as in the coffee-filled chocolates "Pocket cAWffee".
Credo che non vi siate capiti o io non ho capito a cosa ti riferisci.
Gli Italiani pronunciano coffee con una bella e classica 'o' che non guasta 
affatto (e 10 effe che invece sono buffe). I Newyorkesi invece tendono quasi 
a dire un dittongo. E' bruttissimo come suono e non si assomiglia a nulla 
che abbia mai sentito in italiano.
ciao, J.

 wrote in message
news:200909270...@mynewsgate.net...
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Like Romans, Venetians or Neapolitans who speak regional accents in varying
degrees, New Yorkers speak with varying degrees of the New York "dialect",
which is not really a dialect but an accent. Like many Veneti and Napoletani
who do not permit their children to speak in dialect and who try to lose
their regional accent, thinking it a "lower-class" language which will
impede their rise on the social ladder, many New Yorkers assiduously avoid
(or attempt to avoid) speaking with what is considered the New York accent,
an accent which has for them "lower-class" connotations.
The "New York" accent is spoken in New York City and nearby suburban
counties, as well as in Northern New Jersey. There are some variations from
one area to another, but it is basically the same throughout the New York
City area. Like any regional accent, whether it be American English or
Italian, not everyone in the region speaks with what is considered the
heaviest accent of their region, but they can still be identified as being
part of that region by the vestiges of the local accent which remain, no
matter how hard they try to lose the accent.
http://www.nyspeechsolutions.com/regional_accent_modification.php
Joe from Massachusetts

 che abbia mai sentito in italiano.
I agree, but I'd go so far as to say it's a sound unlike anything I've ever 
heard in *English.* :-)
Before I moved to NY I used to make fun of my NY friends who said "Cwawffee"; 
now I have to be careful about doing that because I don't want hot coffee 
thrown in my face.
I went to visit friends in Belgium once, bringing along a friend from NY. The 
first time he said he wanted to get a cup of cwawffee" our hosts looked at 
one another and burst out laughing.


 wrote in message
news:gXJvm.75614$nQ6....@newsfe07.iad...

�Quali benefici si ottengono frequentando il corso di Dizione e Sviluppo
dela Voce?
   I benefici sono molteplici; la nostra voce possiede enormi potenzialit�.
Studiando dizione possiamo:
..............
   parlare in maniera elegante e accattivante
   eliminare inflessioni dialettali e difetti di pronuncia �
http://www.lavoce.net/dizione/dizione_domande.html
Joe from Massachusetts