Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: A riddle

A riddle. In English, with questionable relevance to this news group.
A moth ate words. That seemed to me
when I heard of that strange happening, a curious event,
that the insect, a thief in darkness, devoured
what was written by some man, his excellent language
and its strong foundation. The thievish stranger was not
at all the wiser from swallowing those words.
What is it?
I remain, ecc
Bambi
dtb

Bambi ha scritto nel messaggio...
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Be'? Non ci prova nessuno?
I give up too. Non è una semplice tarma, is it? O forse sono l'unica a non
aver capito, mentre tutti voi davate la risposta talmente per scontata da
non degnarvi di rispondere... Sigh... Bambi?
Anna

non degnarvi di rispondere... Sigh... Bambi?
No, Annaré, non fare così, io non ci provo perché non so neanche da che
parte cominciare... e sinceramente ho fatto abbastanza figuracce... I've
been biding my time... Sto qui e aspetto che qualche anima pia se ne esca
con la soluzione.
Baci
Isa

+AD4-A moth ate words.
bisogna forse riempire qui in mezzo?
i AM (the) One TH AT Eats WORDS
incredibile quello che riesco ad inventarmi, neh?
give us a hint.
ciao,Peltio

Dear Anna,
To answer Peltio's request for a hint, and yours for a solution, I
shall say that you are most decidely on the right track. Follow your
thought through to it's logical beginning and.....ci siamo.
I shall post the answer tomorrow, I assure you.
I remain, ecc.,
Bambi
dtb
:Anna Martini ha scritto :
:Non è una semplice tarma, is it?


Logical beginning? Me? There has never been anything logical in my thought,
I assure you! :)) Maybe I'll wake up in the middle of the night (tonight)
and there will be a light of understanding shining above my head... come la
lampadina Edi di Archimede Pitagorico (a proposito, chissà se esiste quel
personaggio nella versione anglo).
Ma intanto, quali parole ha divorato il moth? E' questo che dovremmo
scoprire, no? O è importante che lo faccia di notte, al buio, e che non ne
tragga alcuna sapienza?
Farò mumble mumble stanotte. Vado a mettermi il mio thinking hat - it never
worked but it fits me wonderfully(so, it's no secret anymore: this is my
idea of a great saturday night! :-))
XXX
Anna

Dear Anna,
I say again.....thought through to it's logical BEGINNING.... .
:Logical beginning? Me? There has never been anything logical in my
:thought, :I assure you! :))
Having been so informed, I will rest assured, as per your request.
:Ma intanto, quali parole ha divorato il moth? E' questo che dovremmo
:scoprire, no?
No, not exactly.
The question in my original post was ' What is it?'
:Farò mumble mumble stanotte.
Thank yo for sharing that with us.
:Vado a mettermi il mio thinking hat - it never worked but it fits me
:wonderfully
A good fit, sweetie, as I always say is worth its weight in gold,.
They're so hard to come by don't you find?
:(so, it's no secret anymore: this is my :idea of a great saturday
night! :-))
To each his own.
In a more jovial mood than usual,
I remain, as always,
Bambi
dtb
p.s. Trsuting that in between the mumble mumbles you are also able to
get some shut-eye.

Bambi ha scritto nel messaggio
+ADw-7hkp3m+ACQ-s8d+ACQ-1+
AEA-nslave1.tin.it
+AD4-...
-Dear Anna,
-I say again.....thought through to it's logical BEGINNING.... .
-
Well, jovial Bambi, I'm so sorry I made you say that simple thing AGAIN.
Risalire alle origini. Let's give it a try. Allora, abbiamo una tarma che
lavora di notte, e che prima di essere una tarma era... cosa? Una larvetta?
Un uovo minuscolo, deposto da una tarma che a sua volta si era fatta strada
tra le pagine scritte prima di potersi stirare le nuove alucce stropicciate
e spiccare il suo volo cieco e nervoso... Does this bring me anywhere?
Altro beginning. Prima che il moth divorasse le parole, qualcuno deve averle
scritte. Ma non è detto che siano state scritte sulla carta; potrebbero
essere state semplicemente digitate e allora il moth potrebbe essere un dito
impazzito che continua a battere sul tasto canc...
No, niente da fare. Se avessi abbastanza fantasia farei la scrittrice, mica
la traduttrice...
XXX
Anna

Dear Anna,
There no need to apologise for having had me re-write the
sentence...it led you to the right path...sort of.
Would you like the answer now or would you prefer to keep that
fabulous, well-fitting thinking cap on,  or more hints?
I remain, as always
Bambi
still jovial,
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:
:
:


Mmm... more hints, please? For Peltio (the genius) and for the other mortals
too...
thanks
Anna

Dear Anna,
Let us review....we have arrived at a moth and it's beginning,...or at
least an earlier stage of a moth being a...
And we have deduced that we are dealing with words.
Words, commonly are found together in a book.
And with that, you have one of the two words which make up the
answer.....
And the winner is.........
I remain, ecc.
Bambi
dtb
Anna ha scritto:
:Mmm... more hints, please? For Peltio (the genius) and for the other
mortals
:too...
:thanks
:Anna
:
:
:
:
:

too...
Say, what makes you think that I be mortal ?
I assure you, I be not.  [ : ) ]
And the fact that I live inside a lamp should be more of a hint for that.
As for the riddle, the only thing I can think of is:
            The moth ate a clothed edition of a book.
But, Bambi,  what is it that we have to guess?
The eater or the eaten?
Peltio,
free since Aladdin's wife changed the bedroom furniture.

least an earlier stage of a moth being a...
bookworm!!!
Peltio

free since Aladdin's wife changed the bedroom furniture.
???
Anna

...
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:

Anna
You see, my lamp is out of fashion...
Ciao,
---Peltio

Bravo Peltio. Davvero bravo.
E' quel che dico anch'io.
Clap clap to our Immortal Genius of the Oldfashioned Lamp!
xxx
Anna

Bambi wrote
-Tah-Dah...there would follow many exclamation marks but I can't type
-those.....
-
-Bravo Peltio. Davvero bravo.
-The answer is  indeed a bookworm.
-
-What would you like for your prize?...
Given the late hour,...
To sleep,
perchance to dream...
Oh, wait a sec. There is one thing.
I saw a movie two years ago (or so). It was Al Pacino's "Richard III".
In the end of it there was a poem (I suppose it was Shakespeare's) narrated
by an Out Of View (???) voice that ended with:
"... perchè noi siamo ombra di sogno.."
Or something like that. I can't trust my memory any more (too many
electro-shocks: it's hard to live in a lamp in this highly technological
age) but it's something similar to Puck's final monologue in AMSND.
Find me that poem, and I'll grant you the three celebrated wishes.
Virtually, that is.
-Is the furniture in the room back to normal?
I don't know. The lady tossed me and my sweet home into the garbage.
Why should I care for her furniture?
And then, it was a few thousands of years ago,,,
By now, she may be the dust on MY furniture.
ciao,
Peltio
(talking about those mortals)

"... perchè noi siamo ombra di sogno.."
Forse vuoi questo passo da Hamlet?
The Bard writes a lot about shadows and dreams, but this is the only
reference with "shadow of a dream".
Non sono in grado di tradurrlo al momento!
===============================================
 COMPLETE SHAKESPEARE (tm)  Ver. 4.3
Hamlet Prince of Denmark
---------------------------------------------------------
[ Hamlet, Rosenkrantz and Guildenstern]
 Ham. O God, I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a
    king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams.
  Guil. Which dreams indeed are ambition; for the very substance of
    the ambitious is merely the shadow of a dream.
  Ham. A dream itself is but a shadow.
  Ros. Truly, and I hold ambition of so airy and light a quality that
    it is but a shadow's shadow.
  Ham. Then are our beggars bodies, and our monarchs and outstretch'd
    heroes the beggars' shadows. Shall we to th' court? for, by my
    fay, I cannot reason.
  Both. We'll wait upon you.
                              (Hamlet Act2: Sc2: line 289-300)
=====================================================
Raymot
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Raymot
La traduzione di Nemi D'Agostino nell'edizione Garzanti è la seguente:
Am.: Oh Dio, potrei star chiuso in un guscio di noce e *credermi* re
dell'infinito...ma faccio *brutti sogni.*
Guild.: Appunto, questi *sogni* sono l'ambizione: la *sostanza* stessa
dell'ambizioso non è che *l'ombra d'un sogno*.
Am.: Ma il *sogno stesso è un'ombra*
Ros.: Esatto, e io dico che l'ambizione è così *vana e inconsistente*
che è solo *l'ombra d'un'ombra*.
Am.: Allora soltanto gli accattoni sono dei *corpi*. Monarchi o eroi
stiracchiati non sono che *l'ombra* degli accattoni. Ma vogliamo
andare a corte? In fede mia, oggi non so ragionare.
Ros. e Guild.: Siamo al vostro servizio.
E' proprio il linguaggio "punning" e "riddling" (modellato sugli
enigmi e sui giochi di parole) di Amleto. Dopo il tema della
corruzione, il secondo filo conduttore del dramma è proprio la natura
problematica della realtà e la relazione di quest'ultima con
l'apparenza. Il binomio sogno/realtà si affaccia con l'apparizione del
fantasma del padre per culminare nella visione di un mondo non più
organicamente ordinato come era concepito nel periodo elisabettiano,
ma rivelatosi, appunto, una sterile "parvenza" di esistenza, un sogno;
la realtà essendo ben diversa, una frantumazione e una corruzione
totale "something is rotten..." ("c'è qualcosa di marcio..." ; I,v,
90).
Non c'è angolo del cuore umano che Shakespeare non abbia profondamente
esaminato.
Lotsa kisses.
Elisabetta.

reference with "shadow of a dream".
I gather that you searched through the complete works of Shakespeare and you
didn't find it. I thank you for that but, alas, it is not what I was looking
for.
So, maybe it's not Shakespeare's. I have to turn the question to anyone who
has seen the movie in its original version. I'm sorry I can't give you any
more hints, and perhaps the Italian translation I think to remember is quite
different from the English sentence.
The only thing I recall is that when the poem was spoken (?), on the screen
there was a big house and a yard in the twilight.
ciao,
e grazie lo stesso
Peltio
And I still haven't found what I'm looking for...

...
:"Raymot" wrote
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