Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: You is my woman

M'è stato chiesto di commentare questa frase piuttosto strana, che compare
in una canzone dell'opera "Porgy and Bess" del grande Gershwin. Nell'opera
Porgy, un nero privo di gambe, disgraziatissimo, trova finalmente un po' di
conforto in una donna, Bess (la quale, peraltro, è una prostituta
sifilitica, ma per lui è già tanto). In una canzone, Porgy le dice: "You IS
my woman". Errore non può essere, visto che si trova scritto sulla copertina
e che nella canzone si capisce distintamente. Da quel poco che conosco del
Black American English, mi sarei aspettato qualcosa tipo "you be my woman".
Tutt'al piú, pensando che il poveraccio parli inglese con un minimo di
correttezza grammaticale, sarebbe lecito attendersi "you are my woman".
Invece, egli dice "is". Perché mai? Non riesco a spiegarmelo. Qualcuno ha
avanzato l'ipotesi (peraltro del tutto espressionistica, non linguistica)
che quella forma verbale esprima un senso di maggiore "rotondità",
compiutezza, essendo quello il momento piú alto della sua misera esistenza;
l'ipotesi, peraltro, non mi convince affatto.
    Si accettano suggerimenti, grazie in anticipo a tutti.
    Ciao,
            Nicola
--
Multa non quia difficilia sunt non audemus, sed quia non audemus sunt
difficilia (Seneca).
[it, en, ru, es, (fr, pt, la, zh, ar)]

 in una canzone dell'opera "Porgy and Bess" del grande Gershwin.
Quest'uso di 'is' è comune nel gergo degli schiavi in quel periodo. Penso che
non sia difficile trovare 'is' usato in questo modo in 'Huckleberry Finn' o 'Tom
Sawyer.'

 my woman".
Provando a invertire gli elementi della frase  (cioè trasformandola in "my
woman is you") troviamo che è corretta. Non è che è stata fatta un'
inversione per enfatizzare l'espressione? E' l'unica idea che mi è venuta,
oppure...  può essere un errore fatto apposta per sottolineare il basso
livello culturale di Porgy, come hai già pensato tu.
Bye, M.


Anche oggi non e' raro trovare 'you is', we is' e cose simili specialmente
nelle canzoni rap [se canzoni si possono chiamare :( ].
+--
I know you can't speak, I know you can't sign
So cry right here on the dotted line

Sawyer.'
I agree.  It sounds like ebonics to me.  You find that in a lot of songs these
days.
bye
Arianna

 Arianna
< My wife's second cousin in Long Island keeps on saying "I says" when he
relates things and he's no Puff Daddy.
Yours
Sal

 my woman".
Ma il bello è che Bess gli risponde: "Porgy, I's your woman now... I is....
I is..."
(Quant'è bbello Porgy and Bess...)
Ciao
Ale
--
Namárië Valinor


Yes, that's very common among older people.   I hear it all the time.  .You
will not find someone under 50 who uses "I says", at least not in California. 
ciao
GFC

 nelle canzoni rap [se canzoni si possono chiamare :( ].
Ah! Allora è stato il mio profondo disprezzo per il genere ad
impedirmi di cogliere questo dettaglio. Grazie mille.
Ciao,
     Nicola

 specialmente nelle canzoni rap [se canzoni si possono chiamare :( ].
Be', "Rapper's delight" di Sugarhill Gang (la prima canzone rap mai apparsa 
e  costruita sulla base di "Good Times" di Chic nell'ormai lontano 1979, 
sigh) non era pessima.
Per chi voglia "goderne" il testo e non abbia possibilità di navigazione 
internet, eccolo qui, reperibile su
http://www.letssingit.com/cgi/frames.cgi?http://www.letssingit.com/lyrics/s
/sugarhill-gang/1.html
Gradirei, almeno, che qualcuno mi dicesse cosa vogliano dire le prime 
quattro righe... grunf!
i said a hip hop a hippie the hippie
to the hip hip hop, a you dont stop
a rock to the bang bang boogy say upchuck the boogy,
to the rhythm of the boogity beat.
now what you hear is not a test--i'm rappin to the beat
and me, the groove, and my friends are gonna try to move your feet
see i am wonder mike and i like to say hello
to the black, to the white, the red, and the brown, the purple and yellow
but first i gotta bang bang the boogie to the boogie
say up jump the boogie to the bang bang boogie
let's rock, you dont stop
rock the riddle that will make your body rock
well so far youve heard my voice but i brought two friends along
and next on the mike is my man hank
come on, hank, sing that song
check it out, i'm the c-a-s-an-the-o-v-a
and the rest is f-l-y
ya see i go by the code of the doctor of the mix
and these reasons i'll tell ya why
ya see i'm six foot one and i'm tons of fun
and i dress to a t
ya see i got more clothes than muhammad ali and i dress so viciously
i got bodyguards, i got two big cars
that definitely aint the wack
i got a lincoln continental and a sunroof cadillac
so after school, i take a dip in the pool
which really is on the wall
i got a color tv so i can see
the knicks play basketball
hear me talkin bout checkbooks, credit cards
more money than a sucker could ever spend
but i wouldnt give a sucker  or a bum from the rucker
not a dime til i made it again
ya go hotel motel whatcha gonna do today (say what)
ya say im gonna get a fly girl gonna get some spankin
drive off in a def oj
everybody go, hotel motel holiday inn
say if your girl starts actin up, then you take her friend
master gee, am I mellow
its on you so what you gonna do
well it's on n on n on on n on
the beat dont stop until the break of dawn
i said m-a-s, t-e-r, a g with a double e
i said i go by the unforgettable name
of the man they call the master gee
well, my name is known all over the world
by all the foxy ladies and the pretty girls
i'm goin down in history
as the baddest rapper there could ever be
now i'm feelin the highs and ya feelin the lows
the beat starts gettin into your toes
ya start poppin ya fingers and stompin your feet
and movin your body while youre sittin in your seat
and the damn ya start doin the freak
i said damn, right outta your seat
then ya throw your hands high in the air
ya rockin to the rhythm, shake your derriere
ya rockin to the beat without a care
with the sureshot m.c.s for the affair
now, im not as tall as the rest of the gang
but i rap to the beat just the same
i dot a little face and a pair of brown eyes
all im here to do ladies is hypnotize
singin on n n on n on n on
the beat dont stop until the break of dawn
singin on n n on n on on n on
like a hot buttered a pop da pop da pop dibbie dibbie
pop da pop pop ya dont dare stop
come alive yall gimme what ya got
i guess by now you can take a hunch
and find that i am the baby of the bunch
'but that's okay i still keep in stride
cause all i'm here to do is just wiggle your behind
singin on n n on n on n on
the beat dont stop until the break of dawn
singin on n n on n on on n on
rock rock yall throw it on the floor
im gonna freak ya here im gonna feak ya there
im gonna move you outta this atmosphere
cause im one of a kind and ill shock your mind
ill put t-t-tickets in your behind
i said 1-2-3-4, come on girls get on the floor
a-come alive, yall a-gimme what ya got
cause im guaranteed to make you rock
i said 1-2-3-4 tell me wonder mike what are you waitin for?
i said a hip hop the hippie to the hippie
the hip hip hop, a you dont stop
the rock it to the bang bang boogie say up jumped the boogie
to the rhythm of the boogie, the beat
skiddlee beebop a we rock a scoobie doo
and guess what america we love you
cause ya rock and ya roll with so much soul
you could rock till you're a hundred and one years old
i dont mean to brag i dont mean to boast
but we like hot butter on our breakfast toast
rock it up baby bubbah
baby bubbah to the boogie da bang bang da boogie
to the beat beat, its so unique
come on everybody and dance to the beat
i said a hip hop the hippie the hippie
to the hip hip hop, a you dont stop
a rock on, pretty bubba to the boogity bang, bang,
the boogie to the boogity beat.
i said i cant wait til the end of the week
when im rappin to the rhythm of a groovy beat
and attempt to raise your body heat
just blow your mind so that you cant speak
and do a thing but a rock and shuffle your feet
and let it change up to a dance called the freak
and when ya finally do come in to your rhythmic beat
rest a little while so ya dont get weak
i know a man named hank
he has more rhymes than a serious bank
so come on hank sing that song
to the rhythm of the boogie da bang bang da bong
well, im imp the dimp the ladies pimp
the women fight for my delight
but im the grandmaster with the three mcs
that shock the house for the young ladies
and when you come inside, into the front
you do the freak, spank, and do the bump
and when the sucker mcs try to prove a point
we're treacherous trio, we're the serious joint
a from sun to sun and from day to day
i sit down and write a brand new rhyme
because they say that miracles never cease
i've created a devastating masterpiece
i'm gonna rock the mike til you cant resist
everybody, i say it goes like this
well i was comin home late one dark afternoon
a reporter stopped me for a interview
she said she's heard stories and she's heard fables
that i'm vicious on the mike and the turntables
this young reporter i did adore
so i rocked a vicious rhyme like i never did before
she said damn fly guy im in love with you
the casanova legend must have been true
i said by the way baby what's your name
said i go by the name of lois lane
and you could be my boyfiend you surely can
just let me quit my boyfriend called superman
i said he's a fairy i do suppoose
flyin through the air in pantyhose
he may be very sexy or even cute
but he looks like a sucker in a blue and red suit
i said you need a man who's got finesse
and his whole name across his chest
he may be able to fly all through the night
but can he rock a party til the early light
he cant satisfy you with his little worm
but i can bust you out with my super sperm
i go do it, i go do it, i go do it, do it , do it
an i'm here an i'm there i'm big bang hank, im everywhere
just throw your hands up in the air
and party hardy like you just dont care
let's do it dont stop yall a tick a tock yall you dont stop
go hotel motel what you gonna do today(say what)
im gonna get a fly girl gonna get some spank drive off in a def oj
everybody go hotel motel holiday inn
you say if your girl starts actin up then you take her friend
i say skip, dive, what can i say
i cant fit em all inside my oj
so i just take half and bust them out
i give the rest to master gee so he could shock the house
it was twelve o'clock one friday night
i was rockin to the beat and feelin all right
everybody was dancin on the floor
doin all the things they never did before
and then this fly fly girl with a sexy lean
she came into the bar, she came into the scene
as she traveled deeper inside the room
all the fellas checked out her white sasoons
she came up to the table, looked into my eyes
then she turned around and shook her behind
so i said to myself, its time for me to release
my vicious rhyme i call my masterpiece
and now people in the house this is just for you
a little rap to make you boogaloo
now the group ya hear is called phase two
and let me tell ya somethin we're a helluva crew
once a week we're on the street
just a-cuttin' the jams and making it free
for you to party ya got to have the movies
so we'll get right down and give you the groove
for you to dance you gotta get hype
so we'll get right down for you tonight
now the system's on and the girls are there
ya definitely have a rockin affair
but let me tell ya somethin there's still one fact
that to have a party ya got to have a rap
so when the party's over you're makin it home
and tryin to sleep before the break of dawn
and while ya sleepin ya start to dream
and thinkin how ya danced on the disco scene
my name appears in your mind
yeah, a name you know that was right on time
it was phase two just a doin a do
rockin ya down cause ya know we could
to the rhythm of the beat that makes ya freak
come alive girls get on your feet
to the rhythm of the beat to the beat the beat
to the double beat beat that it makes ya freak
to the rhythm of the beat that says ya go on
on n on into the break of dawn
now i got a man comin on right now
he's guaranteed to throw down
he goes by the name of wonder mike
come on wonder mike do what ya like
like a can of beer that's sweeter than honey
like a millionaire that has no money
like a rainy day that is not wet
like a gamblin fiend that does not bet
like dracula with out his fangs
like the boogie to the boogie without the boogie bang
like collard greens that dont taste good
like a tree that's not made out of wood
like goin up and not comin down
is just like the beat without the sound no sound
to the beat beat, ya do the freak
everybody just rock and dance to the beat
have you ever went over a friends house to eat
and the food just aint no good
i mean the macaroni's soggy the peas are mushed
and the chicken tastes like wood
so you try to play it off like you think you can
by sayin that youre full
and then your friend says momma he's just being polite
he aint finished uh uh that's bull
so your heart starts pumpin and you think of a lie
and you say that you already ate
and your friend says man there's plenty of food
so you pile some more on  your plate
while the stinky foods steamin your mind starts to dreamin
of the moment that it's time to leave
and then you look at your plate and your chickens slowly rottin
into something that looks like cheese
oh so you say that's it i got to leave this place
i dont care what these people think
im just sittin here makin myself nauseous
with this ugly food that stinks
so you bust out the door while its still closed
still sick from the food you ate
and then you run to the store for quick relief
from a bottle of kaopectate
and then you call your friend two weeks later
to see how he has been
and he says i understand about the food
baby bubbah but we're still friends
with a hip hop the hippie to the hippie
the hip hip a hop a you dont stop the rockin
to the bang bang boogie
say up jump the boogie to the rhythm of the boogie the beat
i say hank can ya rock
can ya rock to the rhythm that just dont stop
can ya hip me to the shoobie doo
i said come on make the make the people move
i go to the halls and then ring the bell
because i am the man with the clientele
and if ya ask me why i rock so well
a big bang, i got clientele
and from the time i was only six years old
i never forgot what i was told
it was the best advice that i ever had
it came from my wise dear old dad
he said sit down punk i wanna talk to you
and dont say a word until i'm through
now there's a time to laugh a time to cry
a time to live and a time to die
a time to break and a time to chill
to act civilized or act real ill
but whatever ya do in your lifetime
ya never let a mc steal your rhyme
so from sixty six til this very day
ill always remember what he had to say
so when the sucker mcs try to chump my style
i let them know that i'm versatile
i got style finesse and a little black book
that's filled with rhymes and i know you wanna look
but there's a thing that separates you from me
and that's called originality
because my rhymes are on from what you heard
i didnt even bite and not a god d--m word
and i say a little more later on tonight
so the sucker mc's can bite all night
a tick a tock yall a beat beat yall
a lets rock yall ya dont stop
ya go hotel motel whatcha gonna do today (say what)
ya say im gonna get a fly girl gonna get some spankin
drive off in a def oj
everybody go hotel motel holiday inn
ya say if your girl starts actin up then you take her friends
a like that yall to the beat yall
beat beat yall ya dont stop
a master gee am I mellow?
its on you so whatcha gonna do
well like johnny carson on the late show
a like frankie croker in stereo
well like the barkay's singin holy ghost
the sounds to throw down they're played the most
its like my man captain sky
whose name he earned with his super sperm
we rock and we dont stop
get off yall im here to give you whatcha got
to the beat that it makes you freak
and come alive girl get on your feet
a like a perry mason without a case
like farrah fawcett without her face
like the barkays on the mike
like gettin right down for you tonight
like movin your body so ya dont know how
right to the rhythm and throw down
like comin alive to the master gee
the brother who rocks so viciously
i said the age of one my life begun
at the age of two i was doin the do
at the age of three it was you and me
rockin to the sounds of the master gee
at the age of four i was on the floor
givin all the freaks what they bargained for
at the age of five i didnt take no jive
with the master gee its all the way live
at the age of six i was a pickin up sticks
rappin to the beat my stick was fixed
at the age of seven i was rockin in heaven dontcha know i went off
i got right on down to the beat you see
gettin right on down makin all the girls
just take of their clothes to the beat the beat
to the double beat beat that makes you freak
at the age of eight i was really great
cause every night you see i had a date
at the age of nine i was right on time
cause every night i had a party rhyme
goin on n n on n on on n on
the beat dont stop until the break of dawn
a sayin on n n on n on on n on...
like a hot buttered de pop de pop de pop
a saying on n n on n on on n on
cause i'm a helluva man when i'm on the mike
i am the definate feast delight
cause i'm a helluva man when i'm on the mike
i am the definate feast delight
come to the master gee you see
the brother who rocks so viciously
-- 
Pestis eram vivus - moriens tua mors ero

 
Loosely translated: trallallero tralalà.
Mary

 sigh) non era pessima.
Concordo. Nemmeno io sono un'amante del rap ma nemmeno lo disprezzo.
Rapper's Delight l'ho sempre trovata straordinaria. Grazie per il testo,
anch'io mi sono chiesta per anni che cavolo stessero dicendo!! :-)
E a proposito di "hippie the hippie" ecc., qualcuno mi sa dire che significa
"Trigger Hippie"? E' il titolo di una canzone dei Morcheeba......
Grazie
Cinzia

 
Non conosco la canzone, ma sarà un gioco di parole con "trigger happy"
(col grilletto facile).
Mary

 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:3C7A3F3E...@nospam.it...

E' probabile ma ancora non riesco a capire quale possa essere il
senso........ Qui c'è il testo ma non so quanto possa servire anche perché
l'ho tirato giù da Internet e credo che chi l'ha messo in rete l'abbia
semplicemente tirato giù dal disco a orecchio...... Non mi convince
molto......
Grazie
Cinzia
Tune in, drop out of love,
Pull the trigger, I'm a hippie,
So said a truth, in blood,
Alive and well,
You push the buttons.
Standing in line of fire,
For the whole,
My soul,
Step codes,
The drums,
And sing,
Love the children,
Learn to live with everything.
Love love love, I'm a trigger hippie, yeah
Love love love, we're trigger hippies, yeah.
Zoom in, cut out, add sound,
Make it feel so trippy
Hung up, let down to ground,
Forget the kill it's far too sticky
Love love love, I'm a trigger hippie, yeah
Love love love, we're trigger hippies, yeah.

 Loosely translated: trallallero tralalà.
  <D'accordo ma upchuck in Americano vuol dire vomitare.
 Yours
Sal

sigh) non era pessima.
Certo, rapper's delight e' davvero divertente e carina, ma quanti anni luce
dista dal rap di oggi? Sara' un'impressione, ma il rap che si sente in giro
adesso e' quasi esclusivamente (ed eccessivamente) violento e volgare.


 adesso e' quasi esclusivamente (ed eccessivamente) violento e volgare.
    Fosse solo quello! Se c'č un contenuto, sono dell'idea che la creazione
artistica debba essere considerata avulsa da qualsiasi discussione di
carattere etico, morale o religioso. Il problema č che la musica rap, nella
stragrandissima maggioranza dei casi, č robaccia, tecnicamente scadente,
fatta da gente che non ha neanche una vaga idea di come si suona, di come si
compone.


 compone.
Lo stesso si disse di Charlie Parker. E poi del rock'n'roll. Di James 
Brown. Dei Sex Pistols. Ecc.
Il rap ha poco a che vedere con il suonare, il comporre e con la perizia 
tecnica. Non è in base a questi parametri che va valutato. Può farti 
schifo per la forma come pure per il contenuto, liberissimo, ma non puoi 
giudicarlo sullo stesso piano del Clavicembalo Ben Temperato.
-- 
Ciao,
Anna

             Nicola
ciao
Gennaro
--
Per rispondere eliminare ".HELL" dall'indirizzo.
To reply remove ".HELL" from the end of the address.
------

 tecnica. Non è in base a questi parametri che va valutato.
    Speravo si capisse che non mi riferivo a questo. Se qualcuno chiama una
forma di espressione "musica", deve, evidentemente, essere suonata con
strumenti, avere un senso del ritmo, della melodia, dell'armonia (che non
devono necessariamente coincidere con quelli classici, ovviamente). Mi
sembra che questo sia assente nel rap. Si vede gente che gesticola e urla
con voce spesso poco piacevole una serie di parole. Se quelle stesse parole
fossero provviste di grazia ed accompagnate da strumenti suonati come si
deve, la chiamerei "musica", anche se non mi piacesse.
    Io adoro i Beatles (che pure furono rivoluzionarî), adoro tanti gruppi e
cantanti moderni. Molti non sanno "comporre" nel senso bachiano del termine,
ma sanno "comporre", ossia mettere assieme suoni e parole in maniera
efficace. Questo intendevo. Ma vedo che ormai siamo fuori tema.
