Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: pronomi italiani

Un po` d'aiuto, per favore.
1. Come si deve rispondere alla domanda che segue?
Hai mai fumato questo tipo di sigarette?
Si puo` dire:
Si, me ne ha fatte provare una il signor Rossi.
o, si puo` dire:
Si, me le ha fatte provare una il signor Rossi.
Credo che si deva usare "ne" perche' la parola "una" indica il partitivo, vero?
2. In italiano, quando il genere non e` sicuro, si usa il maschile, ma non
sempre?
Si dice:
Siamo sicuri che verra` anche Carla: ce l'ha promesso.
non si dice: ce l'ha promessa
ma si dice:
Smettila di urlare!
non si dice: smettilo di urlare!
Perche` non si usa il maschile per "stop it!" E` un'espressione idiomatica?
3. Un'altra cosa, si puo dire:
va be'
invece di
va bene
ma che figura fa?
Grazie,
Ron
USA

USA
ciao
Gennaro che ha mangiato troppe lasagne... BURP!!!
--
Per rispondere eliminare ".HELL" dall'indirizzo.
To reply remove ".HELL" from the end of the address.
------

 USA
il n'y a pas de quoi,
Dario.
ITA

 spesso...
comme va? :)
mi fa ricordare di Gigi D'Alessio :)  Le sue canzoni in napoletano
sono belle(e anche Eddy Napoli).., ancora si parla il dialetto a napoli?
e i giovani?
statte bo',
Dave
-- 
Remove NO_SPAM to reply
For the world's funniest free jokes come to
http://www.twistedhumor.com/cgi-bin/affiliate/banner.cgi?1498

ma che figura fa?
va be' (o vabbč) indica piů che altro rassegnazione: "lasciamo
perdere, non ne parliamo piů"
P. S.: Scusa se adesso ti rispondo in modo affrettato. Sono a tua
disposizione per ulteriori chiarimenti.
P. S. 2: Il NG ideale per queste discussioni č:
it.cultura.linguistica.italiano
Maurizio Pistone - Torino 
 
http://www.mclink.it/personal/MG5960
        mailto:
pis...@mclink.it
                strenua nos exercet inertia   Hor.

 Loki
Ciao,
Snorri.
ITA

Dave
ciao
Genna'
--
chi striglia lo cavallo suio nun se po' chiamma' muzzo de stalla


Grazie a Maurizio, Dario, Gennaro, Cristina e chiunque mi ha provato a aiutare
ma il suo messaggio non e` arrivato sul mio server.
Mi sento un po` come Socrates ha dichiarato: l'unica cosa che so e' che non so
niente.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 USA
Ciao,
Dario.
ITA
Mi aspetto in futuro un fendente letale.
(he he)


Dario, dai, non per tutti il mondo è un pallone.
Dunque, il filosofo che sa di non sapere in italiano si chiama Socrate.
Purtroppo in Italia, dire 'mi sento un po' come Socrates' vuol dire
immedesimarsi nell'omonimo calciatore brasiliano, capitano del Brasile
durante i mondiali del 1982, e successivamente giocatore della Fiorentina in
Italia, noto anche per l'impegno politico.
Non che questo 'brilliant midfielder', come lo definiva Time nel suo
speciale sui Mondiali '82, sia assurto a gloria sportiva tale in Italia, da
diventare eroe eponimo di qualche cosa.
Però, la penetrazione del calcio nel costume italiano è tale che dire 'mi
sento un po' come Socrates', ci fa immediatamente immaginare Ron come un
tipo allampanato, con un viso alla Che Guevara e intento a un colpo di
tacco.
Comunque, correntemente abbiamo nel campionato italiano un brasiliano di
nome Mathuzalem, quindi è meglio non esprimere in maniera figurata la
sensazione degli anni che inesorabili passano su di noi.
Ciao
Giorgio

in Italia, noto anche per l'impegno politico.
Giorgio,
Grazie, in fatto non ho capito la risposta di Dario ma sapevo da leggere i suoi
altri posti che aveva fatto riferimento a qualche pensiero molto profundo e
esoterico.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

Dario, dai, non per tutti il mondo č un pallone.
<Concordo !
   Due anni fa sono stato cacciato da un newgroup  sull'horror perchč
durante i mondiali di calcio si parlava appunto degli stessi e non di
Stephen King e mi ero ,penso
giustamente, incazzato.
I'm older and wiser now and I'm not going to sin against soccer again.
Dario's  remembrances were harmless in themselves and I know  I am the only
one on this planet who doesn't give a monkey's toss about soccer but
nevertheless every time I  read something about in a newsgroup
I feel uneasy, to say the least.
Hope you can forgive this old fool.
Sal

 one on this planet who doesn't give a monkey's toss about soccer but
[....]
Dear Salvatore,
So much for being older and wiser, because the undersigned wishes to assure
you  that you are *not* the only person on this planet who doesn't give a
monkey's toss about soccer...or football for that matter. With al due
respect to Dario and others of course.
I remain, as always
Bambi
dtb

 esoterico.
I must confess to having been somewhat taken aback by Dario's response as
well. It seemed somehow out of character, but then one must remember that
football is truly the driving force of this wonderful country. To think I
don't appreciate it in the slightest, heathen that I am.
Sigh.
I remain, as always,
Bambi
dtb

 USA
Ciao,
Dario
ITA

    Due anni fa [...]
Caspiterina! E io che credevo di aver fatto solo una battuta.
Ciao,
Dario.
ITA

Look, sir, I bleed apace.
Posso allungare cosi` alto con la lingua in italiano? Credo di no.
Ciao amico,
Ron
USA

Caspiterina! E io che credevo di aver fatto solo una battuta.
Certo, Dario. Penso che molto di noi lo credevamo anche. Ma, e' vero che so poco
di calcio, e la tua battuta era perduta a me.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 one on this planet who doesn't give a monkey's toss about soccer...
I know, you meant the only *human male* on this planet, but...
Oh no, love, you're not alone!
(Ehm... is your wife around? Explain her I was just quoting our old friend
David Jones...)
Anna

 Caspiterina! E io che credevo di aver fatto solo una battuta.
Lo era infatti. Solo che la societā italiana e' talmente imbevuta di calcio,
fino ai pių alti livelli, che la tua battuta, un tempo innocente, e' oramai
diventata un problema di "political correctness" e di diritti delle
minoranze.
Questo, in un'ottica italiana. Poi, immagino che organizzare un party
durante un Monday Night nel quale giocano i 49ers, sia molto difficile anche
per Ron, a meno di non tenerlo direttamente a Candlestick Park.
Ciao
Giorgio

anche per Ron, a meno di non tenerlo direttamente a Candlestick Park.
In vero, non farebbe un problema per me. Mi piace giocare i sport ma non mi
intressa molto a guardarli. Non avevo mai capito perche' si vorrebbe vincere una
squadra invece di un'altra. I giocatori in ogni squadra vengono da diversi paesi
e si trasferiscono da una squadra al'altra--per che cosa si fa il tifo, la
societa' o gli azionisti?
In ogni caso, sai che costruiscono un altro stadio a San Francisco per i 49ers?
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 In ogni caso, sai che costruiscono un altro stadio a San Francisco per i
49ers?
No, non lo sapevo. Sempre dalle parti di Candlestick Park ? Comunque qui non
siamo da meno, anche a Torino costruiranno un nuovo stadio per la Juventus e
uno per il Torino, buttando via il 'vecchio' stadio dei mondiali del '90.
Se a qualcuno oltreoceano serve uno stadio seminuovo, e' un affarone.
Ciao
Giorgio

 Se a qualcuno oltreoceano serve uno stadio seminuovo, e' un affarone.
Dear Giorgio,
What do you think? Slightly over-kill as a possible venue for our next
Raduno?


 Raduno?
ROTFL
Maybe for this year is too much, I would rather try to book it for the next
year.
Nevertheless, the "Stadio Delle Alpi" is by far too cold and uncomfortable
for hosting a proper ICLIng raduno, despite a remarkable number of porchetta
pushers operating in the stadium vicinities.
In any case, if this means that there is some royal interest in holding the
Easter Convention in Turin, I will make every effort to find a more suitable
place.
(just trying my luck...)
Giorgio

 Giorgio
Ciao,
Dario.
ITA
* oops! mi sono tradito!  ;-)

 USA
To heal my wound thy message hath been balm
Ciao,
Dario.
ITA

 adieu,
Dear Loki,
Alas, your beguiling attempts into luring the undersigned into agreeing (and
I quote):
"(that) when boats  almost capsize and other interesting manoeuvres(occur),
it does
get  interesting. :-)"  has met with not only little, but absolutely *no*
success.
I shall leave it to the couch potatoes and other sporting enthusiasts of the
world to revel in the hidden, glorious, pleasures that such activities as
football, ( rugby or league or any other game with a name that involves
normally sensible male adults careening  like crazed Mexican jumping beans
up and down a bit of grass, invariably covered in horrid mud, chasing after
a ball, the sole object of which is to then kick it back across the same
muddied patch of grass and with even more delirious enthusiasm chase after
it again) affords.
As has been stated in the past, nothing more strenuous than the muscular
movement involved in raising a glass of bolly to one's lips is practised by
the undersigned. On  two occasions, (oh the shame!) in a former life as a
publicist, one was admittedly found to be in the 'enviable' position of
having to
promote and therefore speak with praise and admiration not to mention
wholehearted enthusiasm about the wonders of Wrestling. Not the serious kind
mind, the 'capes and tights and silly name' kind.
With such memories having been brought all too painfully back to life, I
feel a glass of the aforementioned bolly to be in order to soothe my
troubled
soul.


 Giorgio
Dear Giorgio,
'Nothing ventured, nothing gained?' is that what you meant?
In any case, the undersigned, truly has no preferences as to the city in
which the forthcoming raduno should be held, and Torino suits me well.
However, since it seems we are to be graced with the presence of Arianna
who will be travelling many miles to be with us, perhaps it should be she
who
is allowed to express her favoured choice of venue. Nice try for Torino
though!
Should Torino not win in the voting, then perhaps as you suggest, we can
keep the Stadio delle Alpi in mind for next year (I am rather tempted by
porchetta sellers on the one hand, and rather put off by cold and
uncomfortableness on the other. I suppose bolly in the stadium is out of the
question?)


 di aver dimenticato l'ironia che Ron ha sempre dimostrato di possedere.
Dear Dario,
Quite apart from the 'linguistic' aspect of the discussions within the
Realm, I personally find the irony and humour which pours forth from
members, to be one of the main reasons why I find this newsgroup so
appealing. As it would seem you do also.
That, and of course, the rare chance to see you take 'pen in hand' and write
such wondrous words of fancy the way only you can. But then you know how I
feel about that....
I remain,as always,
Bambi
dtb

 question?)
Ok, Bologna is fine to me.
About the bolly, I would not dare to say that there is no bolly available in
the stadium.
First, the low temperature is suitable for storing champagne. Second, Mr.
Agnelli is a more than frequent visitor, so I suppose that there is a
consistent stock of bolly and other luxury goods somewhere in the stadium.
In a former life as a Carabiniere, I had the rare occasion of examining
thoroughly all the stadium, row by row, lavatory by lavatory, looking for
crowbars, rockets and similar gadgets, but, alas, no bolly discovery was
reported.
Now, a question: is there the faintest possibility that I can integrate my
one year service as a Carabiniere in the pension scheme as a K.I.S.A. ?
Giorgio

success.
<<Dear Bambi I 'll quote a common acquaintance of mine and Anna Martini's
from Manchester :
    I dreamt about you last night and I fell out of bed twice........
    You're the bee's knees
   "Reel around the fountain " as sung by Morrissey in the Smith's
masterpiece debut album.
   Those rather obscure verses mean that you are my cup of tea, the woman of
my dreams,
    an angel fallen down on earth.
    Until a month ago was a famous neapolitan song sung among the others by
Peppino di Capri.
    No average Italian  had ever heard of a "bolina" let alone seen one and
"Sailing " was a song by an American  whose name I can't, for the life of me
, remember.
Thanks to the dosh splashed around by a stinking rich tycoon the media have
enslaved themselves
to this obscure sport and have made people go crazy about it.
This post of mine may seem to some eyes off topic but I think we are
supposed to talk about the perception
English speaking people have of Italy.
Dear Loki ,
I dream about the day when the Italians will endear themselves to the local
for their cuisine(in my opinion the
best in the world ) rather than for their sailing skills.
I fell in love with New Zealand by watching the magnificent natural sets of
the Tv series "Hercules the legendary
Journeys" and I would like to visit it sooner or later but even if I had the
money and time now (and I haven't) I would postpone the journey.
I would not have been able to stand people in Auckland asking :
You are Italian aren't you ?
Are you crazy about Luna Rossa ?
My reply would not be suitable for god fearing people's ears.
I hope I'm not the only one who thinks like this.
My wife agrrees with me.
To everybody
Sorry about my ramblings
Opinioned
Sal

 one year service as a Carabiniere in the pension scheme as a K.I.S.A. ?
Dear Giorgio,
Pension scheme? Pension scheme!?
*What* pension scheme might that be pray tell, and is there one for HRH's?
Who IS the official treasurer of The Realm, anyway?!
Ranting aside, should the Chief Treasurer of The Realm (whoever s/he may be)
find there is suitable cause to take your request into consideration, please
rest assured you will have the undersigned's complete support in the matter.
After all, a man who has sported no less than two uniforms so far in life,
deserves many rewards.
Mr Agnelli's attendance at events in the Stadium notwithstanding, your
scrupulous investigations of every nook and cranny within the premises and
the complete absence of bolly, leads me to reconsider my original suggestion
of entertaining the notion that the Stadium might be a suitable venue for
any event to be held by ICLing.
The search continues.


     You're the bee's knees
To which I am now replying:
Dear Salvatore,
I do hope you sustained no serious injury, as you seem to have had more than
your share of late, and it would pain me so to learn that I might be the
cause of
yet more g.b.h. (grievous bodily harm).
    >    Those rather obscure verses mean that you are my cup of tea, the
    >    woman    of   my dreams, an angel fallen down on earth.
* blush, sigh*
    > "Sailing " was a song by an American  whose name I can't, for the life
    >    of me, remember.
Christopher Cross?
Rod Stewart? (Scottish not American, I grant you)
    >     I fell in love with New Zealand by watching the magnificent
    >    natural     sets of  the Tv series "Hercules the legendary
    >    Journeys"
"Xena, warrior Princess" made me appreciate the beauty of New Zealand a
country which, alas, I have yet to visit.
    > Sorry about my ramblings
No need, I feel, to apologise. Your "ramblings" are always filled with
humour
and an interesting viewpoint. In any case, your wife agrees with
you.....which is
not to say that I don't.....
I remain, as always, ecc.,
Bambi
dtb

football is truly the driving force of this wonderful country. 
Football is not a question of life or death. It's MORE important.
:-)
 
-- 
Isa
Work like you don't need money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no one's watching

 Football is not a question of life or death. It's MORE important.
Have you read Fever Pitch recently, Isa dear?
ciau
Anna


ha pensato bene di dire al mondo:

Not recently, Anna darling. I did when it first came out :-) and loved it,
being a football _and_ good literature fan. Mr. Hornby positively rocks (or
should I say, kicks?).


 should I say, kicks?).
He kicks, he positively rocks and he rolls too! :-)
Long live Nick
Anna

 wrote in message
881ahc$hc8$1...@nslave2.tin.it...

In 'High fidelity' immagino.
Pero', se oltre agli argomenti accattivanti, il piccolo Nick ci mettesse un
po' più di spessore ? Mi sembra il Fabio Fazio dei Gunners a volte. Absit
trolluria verbis.
Ciao
Giorgio

I know I may be considered a heathen ,since I don't get any kicks from
people kicking palloni,
  yet I would like to show my appreciation of Mr Hornby's literary efforts.
   Ciao
   Sal

 trolluria verbis.
Senta, ingegnere, prima di dire pubblicamente qualcosa di cui potrei
pentirmi...
For those who have loved The Book:
A film site dealing with upcoming movies has High Fidelity set for release
March 31, 2000. Supposedly Bruce Springsteen will have a cameo and possibly
a song.
More details:
http://upcomingmovies.com/highfidelity.html
BTW, Giorgio, have you read About a Boy? Trovi anche quello un libro privo
di spessore? Saranno almeno 2 cm.
Il mondčbello perchévvario...
Anna


Leggerollo ed eventualmente farň pubblica abiura. Ma, sai com'é con i
pregiudizi...
Giorgio

, remember.
Queenie Isa is there for you darling. 
That was Christopher Cross if you please, author of the immortal and
most obscure verses that go 'sailing, take me away from where I'm
going'... not to mention Arthur's Theme (If you get caught between the
moon and New York City, I know it's crazy, but it's true...) from the
namesake motion picture. 
The man who gave a new, deeper meaning to the words 'one-hit wonder'.
Love,


 The man who gave a new, deeper meaning to the words 'one-hit wonder'.
Dear Isabella,
Not that one wishes to see a spat breaking out among sovereigns, but no
fair. I - much to my own very great astonishment - remembered Mr. C. Cross
as the gent who sang the song and  posted such -though I also wondered if
the fact that Rod (The Mod) Stewart also sang a song with the same name,
counted for much. I suspected it did not as Salvatore was specifically
referring to an American singer....but I was too overcome with the fact that
I could actually recollect such a one(or two) hit wonder as dear Chris.


namesake motion picture.
[/Sigh...]
Era l'anno in cui Olivia Newton John era uscita con l'album "Physical"?
Ma quanto tempo č passato?
No, non ditemelo.
Lasciatemi ora,
solo, coi miei ricordi....
[Sigh.../]

cantate tutte.
No doubt about it, my friend... :-)
Bye Asoka xx'82
<< However fast you may run, you will never overreach the ball >>

 it as well...
 Dear Loki,
all things in life, it seems, have their pros and cons. Happy
couch-potato-ing and to ease the moment of irritation, might I suggest
abother glass of bolly? So soothing for the soul and nerves.
    > > >Salvatore Santangelo" wrote
    > > > one and "Sailing " was a song by an American  whose name I can't,
    > > > for the life of me , remember.
               > Thought he was English? Rod Stewart.
Asked and answered, I believe. Salvatore is referring to Christopher Cross
whom, as Isabella then pointed out, gave a new meaning to the term 'one(or
two)-hit wonder'. There was another version by Rod the Mod and we'd rather
remember that one.
    > I'm still trying to find out what variety those common green beans
    >are. I'm told they're called "Bobby", which doesn't seem a very italian
    >name.
No you're quite right, it doesn't  and therefore a burning question.
However, to make matters 'worse' they are
usually (at least around my neck of the woods) called  fagiolini 'Boby'
(only one b).  I have
always called them green beans but have also heard them called runner beans
or string beans. But Boby?
--
I remain as always, ecc., ecc.,
Bambi
dtb

 or string beans. But Boby?
<<A Trento si chiamano tegoline.
    Yours
  Sal


 took over.
   I can understand that
    Sal
    a fellow couch potato [amazingly (he hopes) improving his English by
watching the box]

Thought he was English? Rod Stewart.
Roddy boy? He's as Scottish as they get...


kilometres economy class?
I guess so... unless you happen to be in Italy sometime mid April... please
try?!


 Work like you don't need money, 
How about travel like you don't need money :-)
adieu,
loki
-- 
Please remove ASGARD from email address.

 Isa
Oh right, silly me! I keep forgetting that people on a small island can
divide themselves into different countries. <sigh>
adieu,
Loki


 On Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:13:17 +0100, "Bambi" wrote:
    > might I  suggest a[n]other glass of bolly? So soothing for the soul
    >and nerves.
            > Never tried it actually.
Aaargh! Not another one! I am outnumbered on all sides.
    > I'll just have to soothe myself with a nice brie or caffé.
Brie. Lightly toasted with a drizzle of butter and slivers of roasted
almonds. This accompanied by a glass of bolly, I assure you, is heaven on
earth.
As for Boby beans, alas, I unable to render assistance in edifying you as to
which variety.


divide themselves into different countries. <sigh>
Yeah, think East Timor for instance... sigh, sigh
-- 
Isa
Work like you don't need money,


 kilometres economy class?
Dear Loki,
Yes, it would necessitate your having to drag yourself away from your
favourite couch, and some twenty thousand miles or so of travel (give or
take
a few miles) would be required, though economy, business or first class,
sweetie, is really such a personal choice, don't you find? I don't recall
many of Judith Krantz's heroines making much of a similar dilemma, but I
digress.
In any event was there not a gentleman in some previous post who offered to
help?
We are to be honoured by the presence of HRH Arianna who is coming from San
Francisco, so it is not unthinkable, is it, that you might also consider
leaving your splendid shores and honour us with a visit?
--
I remain as always, ecc.,
Bambi
dtb

 Hmmm, risky :-)
  <Why ?
   Questioning
Sal

>>A Trento si chiamano tegoline.
What on heart are they? Never heard at all. And Boby doesn't sound
italian...
I can just remember Bobby from? the soap opera "Dallas" ;)

 Sailing may be obscure in Italy lo so, but not in NZ.
Uhmm I've had heard something like the above... By? an American guy...
Doesn't speak any more!!!!!!!!!
Write you later ;)

   <Why ?
Dear Sal, 
Perhaps the movies and television in italy is of a better quality than
what we suffer here in New Zealand (Actually, no perhaps about it, I
know it's better) but if I used our tv for language learning I would
learn how to sell products in inane ways, make bad jokes - oops, I do
that anyway...
But yes, you are right really. :-)
adieu,
Loki
--