Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: R: ferie finite.......sob

Ragazzi, navigo da tanto ma è la prima volta che visito il vostro newsgroup
e vorrei solo dirvi che è grande.
A nice surprise coming back from holidays!
I'll keep in touch
Marina

 wrote in message
news:7so21n$i9u$1...@nslave1.tin.it...


 Claudio
Never mind, Claudio; if it's any comfort to you, I'm English, and I have a lot
of trouble understanding some American accents (I haven't seen The Bodyguard,
but I seem to remember it's American).
I often have to read the subtitles of American films, if there are any!    :-)
If you have a look at the earlier thread called "Problema di pronuncia", you'll
see that there are lots of different accents in the English-speaking countries,
which makes things difficult for learners. It sounds as though you learned the
British pronunciation at school, so try watching British films in the original
language version to begin with, and see how you get on. You should find it's
easier, unless the people have strong regional British accents.
Watching films and TV is a very good way of learning a language; listening to
people talking is the same way that children learn their native language. You
obviously won't understand everything at first (nor do babies), but if you
concentrate hard you'll pick up at least some of what people are saying. The
next time you'll understand more, and so on.
It's frustrating to begin with, but it won't be long before you understand
nearly everything.
Maybe not 100%, because as you say, a lot of actors mumble (mangiano le
parole). This seems to be the fashionable style of acting in America nowadays.
As far as music goes, the English use the same system as the Germans; the notes
you call do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-si-do correspond to C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C.
When the musicians in an orchestra tune their instruments, they use the note A
(la), not C (do).
As far as the pronunciation of "think" goes, only a Cockney (London
working-class accent) would say "fink", and only a Frenchman or an Irishman
would say "tink".
I expect you learned the correct pronunciations of "th" (as in "think" and
"though") at school.
Finally, "I am A1" is a bit old-fashioned. "I'm fine" or "I'm feeling great"
sounds better.
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
A Canadian is an unarmed American with health insurance.

 I often have to read the subtitles of American films, if there are any!
:-)
!!!
Mi ricordo uno dei primi film che vidi a Londra, parecchi anni fa: Barry
Lindon.
Ero orgogliosissimo, perche' ero riuscito a capire quasi tutto.  Ma era
facile...
A Roma, al Pasquino, mi imbattei in certi film americani dove oltre il 20%
per non andavo.
The marathon man fu un disastro scoraggiante...in pratica non capii quasi
nulla della storia.
Recentemente ho visto, con sottotitoli, The bodyguard, Pretty woman, e The
rock.
Insomma, dopo un un po' comincio ad ingranare, ma senza sottotitoli mi
sfuggirebbero un sacco di battute...

Mary
bye :-)
Gennaro
--
Per rispondere eliminare ".HELL" dall'indirizzo.
To reply remove ".HELL" from the end of the address.

they're often terrible.
The ones in english are fairly faithful, as far as  my experience goes.
And they help very much to grasp the conversation.
I suggest watching the movie without subs the first time and with them the
second one.
One right after the other.
Start with the Potempkin battleship.
That is easy.
cheers,
Peltio

 sfuggirebbero un sacco di battute...
Well, it may be easier, but your brain gets lazy watching subtitles (I
have an excuse - I know English already!).
You'll learn *much* more if you watch films without subtitles. Anyway,
they're often terrible. You may actually miss more by watching them than
by listening.
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
Everyone has a photographic memory, but some just don't have film.

 TI, I have with bread and jam
TI, a drink with jam and bread
(tea)
and that (?) brings us back to
Do, do, do, do,
DO, a deer, a female deer, etc.
That film was what is known in English as a tear-jerker; so much so that
it was nicknamed "The Sound of Mucous".
Now who's going to post supercalifragilisticexpialidocious?
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
Radioactive: individual who can't work without music.

 Well, it may be easier, but your brain gets lazy watching subtitles
You're right, Mary.
I'll look for something without subtitles.

claudio
ciaociao


Radioactive: individual who can't work without music.
hahahaha!!!!!! :-D
bye
Gennaro
---
- "What's your name?"
- "Guybrush Threepwood."
- "Guybrush, is that french?"
- "Actually it's fiction."



Giusto.
Cosě anche le sinfonie ecc. hanno nomi diversi da noi.
Es. "Sinfonia in do minore" diventa "Symphony in C minor".
Stranamente, per motivi storici, le istruzioni sulle partiture sono sempre
scritte in italiano, quindi ogni musicista inglese conosce qualche parola
italiana (piano, fortissimo, andante, allegro, ecc.).
Mary
(ex-oboista)
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
A musical ignoramus doesn't know his brass from his oboe.


Sě.
Ci sono 2 pronunce diverse:
- come nelle parole think, thought, ecc.: metti la lingua tra i denti con la
bocca un po' aperta e soffi
- come nelle parole the, that, though, ecc.: fai la stessa cosa ma con la
parte superiore della lingua che tocca l'interno dei denti superiori.
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
'That's right', he said. 'We're philosophers. We think, therefore we am.' --
Terry Pratchett, Small Gods.

 eager to learn the ...ehm.. English version!
OK, I'll see if I can find it on the web.
I don't remember much of it, just that it rhymes with "atrocious".
When I was studying law at university, some of the students wrote a sort of
cabaret full of legal in-jokes, one of which was the song "Bona fide purchaser
for value without notice", sung to the same tune. (Elsevier is about the only
person who'll understand that one.)
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
 If you have the right key, you can sing in any flat.

Mary Poppins...The Musical:
"Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious"
Written by Richard M and Robert B Sherman
[Mary:] Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!
          Even though the sound of it is something quite atrocious.
          If you say it loud enough, you'll always sound precocious.
          Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!
[Pearlies:] Um diddle diddle diddle um diddle ay!
                Um diddle diddle diddle um diddle ay!
[Bert:] Because I was afraid to speak when I was just a lad,
           My father gave me nose a tweak and told me I was bad.
           But then one day I learned a word that saved me achin' nose,
 [Bert and Mary:] The biggest word you ever 'eard and this is how it goes:
chorus: [All:] Oh, supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!
              Even though the sound of it is something quite atrocious.
              If you say it loud enough, you'll always sound precocious.
              Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!
[Mary:]   He travelled all around the world and ev'rywhere he went
               He'd use his word and all would say, "There goes a clever gent!"
[Bert:]     When dukes and ma'arajas pass the time of day with me,
[Bert and Mary:] I say me special word and then they ask me out to tea.
(chorus)
[Mary:] So when the cat has got your tongue, there's no need for dismay,
             Just summon up this word and then you've got a lot to say.
             But better use it carefully or it can change your life
[Pearlie:] One night I said it to me girl and now me girl's my wife!
[All:] She's supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!
        Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!
        Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!
        Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
Otter:  Cockney weather forecast.

 Otter:  Cockney weather forecast.
Dear Mary,
Not that I didn't appreciate seeing for what I am sure is the first
time in my life the words to Supercali....etc written out, but it was
the above which rally caught my attemtion and had me chuckling more.
--



Adesso capisco qual è il problema.
Quando i musicisti accordano gli strumenti, non dicono la nota LA/A a voce,
quindi le differenze di pronuncia non c'entrano.
L'oboista ascolta la diapason per accordare l'oboe (si può dire  "accordare"
per uno strumento a fiato?), poi suona la nota LA/A, e tutti gli altri
ascoltano, suonano la stessa nota, e eventualmente accordano i loro strumenti.
Nessuno canta.
Se per qualche motivo io dovessi cantare *qualunque* nota senza parole, direi
"LA".
Per esempio, se dovessi cantare l'arpeggio do-mi-sol-do-sol-mi-do, canterei
"la-la-la-la-la-la-la".
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
Semiconductor: A part-time orchestra leader.

[Mary:] (remove "nospam" to reply)
[Mary:] (per rispondere eliminare "nospam")
bye :-)
Gennaro fanciullo


(ex-oboista)
Davvero??? Outstanding!
bye
Gennaro
---
"...verette vola' da cca' no frauto, dalla' 'na ciaramella, da na parte 'na
zampogna, dall'autra no chiucchiero, facenno pell'aiero mille sciorte de
suone..."
("...vide volare da qua un flauto, di la' una ciaramella, da una parte una
zampogna, dall'altra un chiucchiero, diffondendo per l'aria suoni d'ogni
sorta...")


claudio
ciao :-)
Gennaro


"movie"?
When Americans refer to motion pictures there is no difference in meaning
between "a movie" and "a film," however there are subtle differences in
connotation. "Movie" has a connotation of popular entertainment while "film" has
a connotation of artistic experience. This is a subtle rather than expressed
difference and you will find either word used in place of the other in most
situations.
For example, in the US we have an "independent film" industry outside of the
Hollywood system where filmmakers (never movie-makers) make films, not movies
(unless they become grand commercial successes and graduate to moviedom).
Therefore my pseudointellectual friends and I go to see Art films and
occasionally watch a mainstream movie.
In regard to usage, one says "I'm going to the movies" but one never says "I'm
going to the films." Instead, one might say "I'm going to see a film" (or a
movie) or, if in a pretentious mood, "I'm going to the cinema." In addition,
film may be used as a verb. One can "film a scene" but one cannot "movie a
scene."
Don't forget that part of the connotations evoked by a word are tied to its
literal meaning. In time, when motion pictures make the conversion to an
electronic format the term "movie" will still be used with impunity. The term
"film" however may fall into disfavor because it refers to the physical medium.
(The term "record" retained its connection to "vinyl record and is never used to
refer to a CD.) The word "film" is also used to refer to the material used in
still cameras and other photographic devices that use film.
A future warning--on the topics of wine, food, film, music, and some other
subjects for indulgeous consumption disguised as Art, I'm prone to provide more
information in answer to a question than most normal people really want to know.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

Bambi wrote with copious errors included,  the following:



Re and mi will go too fa one of these days.
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
Hit any key to continue.........EXCEPT THAT ONE!!

altri lo seguono e, se necessario, accordano gli strumenti.
La domanda e' very OT ma io sono curiosa, perche' proprio l'oboista?
Tradizione, ragioni tecniche, o che altro? Perche' il suo 'la' e' meglio di
quello degli altri?
Ciao
Isa
Work like you don't need money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no one's watching

A musical ignoramus doesn't know his brass from his oboe.
Nice musical pun! - I don't think I can trumpet.
Raymot
[[[[[[[[

 If you have the right key, you can sing in any flat.
The key to a flat? Gee, sharp, Mary!
Raymot
[[[[[[[

 quello degli altri?
Yes. It goes much less out of tune than the other instruments.
I'm not sure how to say that in Italian.
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
Barometer, n. An ingenious instrument which indicates what kind of weather we
are having.

 utilizzino tranquillamente i nomi inglesi delle note C, D etc.
Penso di poter chiarire, anche facendo riferimento a tutti gli altri
messaggi sul tema.
Le lettere identificano sempre l'altezza assoluta del suono
(attualmente, A = 440 hz) e non vengono mai usate per la "solmisazione",
ossia la lettura delle note (intonata o parlata) per la qual cosa si
usano, invece, le sillabe.
Le sillabe, in molti sistemi di solmisazione, non identificano l'altezza
assoluta, bensi` la posizione della nota nella scala. Si puo` quindi
cantare do re mi fa sol la si do partendo da qualsiasi suono, con do che
di volta in volta ha l'altezza di un A, di un B, e le altre sillabe
della scala di conseguenza.
Questi sistemi si dicono generalmente "sistemi di lettura con Do
mobile", e ce ne sono molti, ciascuno con una sua propria sillabazione,
tra cui la serie do re mi fa sol la TI.
Si arriva ai piu` complessi (che io non conosco bene) con altre sillabe
per le alterazioni (fi per fa diesis, to per ti (si) bemolle, ecc).
Vengono usati normalmente all'estero, purtroppo quasi mai in Italia.
	Luca
-- 
e-mail: p.stevens at 
operamail.com
Votate per it.discussioni.gps. CFV su it.news.annunci.

information in answer to a question than most normal people really want to
know.
I must fall into the abnormal category then, because I love every piece of
it.


 wrote :


piece of it.
Given the accumulating indications that you have a one-track mind, Isa, I wonder
if you realized that I meant "prone" in the sense of "having a tendency."
Ciao,
Ron
USA

Is this a purely northern expression?
My knowledge of American speech is intimate, but my knowledge of British speech
is only through some British friends (most from the north), media, and an
occassional visit. The expression you quote is a familiar one, and I would have
thought that it was common throughout the Isles. However, a generalized
perception of usage is a common error made by non-native inhabitants. Do any
natives who actually still live there frequent this newsgroup?
Ciao,
Ron
USA
PS: I know "occassional" is misspelled. I often misspell it, and not on purpose.

I'm not sure how to say that in Italian.
No sweat, I understand English. Ain't I lucky though. :-)
Grazie


 No sweat, I understand English. Ain't I lucky though. :-)
I wasn't casting aspersions on your English; I was thinking of the other 299
readers and lurkers who might not understand! :-)
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
ASPERSE, v.t. Maliciously to ascribe to another vicious actions which one has
not had the temptation and opportunity to commit. -- Ambrose Bierce

 Is this a purely northern expression?
I've lived in the Midlands, the North (Halifax, near Leeds) and London,
and everybody I know talks about "going to the pictures". I think it's
common all over the UK.
You can also say "going to the flicks", but I think it's a bit
old-fashioned.
Films were originally called "moving pictures".
The Americans abbreviated the term to "movies"; we abbreviated it to
"pictures".
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
"So this is where they make movies", Tom said studiously.

if you realized that I meant "prone" in the sense of "having a tendency."
ROTFL


 secret?..:-)
No, it's an open secret by now (everybody keeps asking me).
Just do a web search for "taglines", and you'll find zillions of them.
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
Borrow a few lines = Plagiarism.  Steal *volumes* = Research.

 As far as music goes,
Che significa?
Grazie per le traduzioni :-). Ah, un consiglio, quando riporti il testo del
messaggio del mittente sarebbe meglio non riportarlo interamente ma limitarsi alle
frasi principali che ti suggeriscono la risposta...
--
   A rileggerci!
... Dracula cercava sangue vergine...sara' morto di fame?


Credo che dovresti studiare un po' di inglese, prima.

 ... Dracula cercava sangue vergine...sara' morto di fame?
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
---
Why wasn't Jesus born in Ireland? Because they couldn't find three wise men and a
virgin.

 Credo che dovresti studiare un po' di inglese, prima.
Gia' lo studio, poi per fortuna esiste questo NG per chiarire i dubbi...
--
   A rileggerci!
... Are you running under Windows, or just using an XT?


E' meglio che vada a rivedere i vari significati di "far"...


 wrote:
" > La "'s" e' la abbreviazione di quale parola?
" >
" > Che significa?
" 
" Credo che dovresti studiare un po' di inglese, prima.
Il guaio e` che tanti madrelingua inglese scrivono "it's" invece che "its"
per il possessivo neutro.
La mia personale opinione (a parte il gruppone degli ignoranti, come quelli
che in italiano scrivono "qual'e`") e` che una volta le grammatiche inglesi
non prevedevano che una cosa inanimata potesse possedere qualcosa.
.mau.

 che in italiano scrivono "qual'e`")
E' vero, la regola dice troncamento (qual e'); pero' alcuni dizionari danno
qual'e'  come forma alternativa, "meno comune" ma usata anche da "buoni
scrittori".
"Ignoranti" mi pare eccessivo.
A me (tutti i gusti  :) da' molto piu' fastidio, per esempio, il mancato uso
del congiuntivo. Sento spesso le sedute della Camera e del Senato: almeno 9
su 10, pezzi grossissimi inclusi, non lo usano mai, ma proprio mai.
"credo che e' opportuno..." mi fa venire i brividi.

 wrote:
" > La mia personale opinione (a parte il gruppone degli ignoranti, come
" > quelli che in italiano scrivono "qual'e`")
" 
" E' vero, la regola dice troncamento (qual e'); pero' alcuni dizionari danno
" qual'e'  come forma alternativa, "meno comune" ma usata anche da "buoni
" scrittori".
" "Ignoranti" mi pare eccessivo.
Quanti di quelli che scrivono "qual'e`" sanno che ci sono stati "buoni
scrittori" che l'hanno usata?
" A me (tutti i gusti  :) da' molto piu' fastidio, per esempio, il mancato uso
" del congiuntivo. Sento spesso le sedute della Camera e del Senato: almeno 9
" su 10, pezzi grossissimi inclusi, non lo usano mai, ma proprio mai.
" "credo che e' opportuno..." mi fa venire i brividi.
Ma loro ne sono cosi` convinti che non possono usare un tempo
dell'incertezza :-(
ciao, .mau.

 scrittori" che l'hanno usata?
Pochi. Ma, dicevo, "quale'e" e' una forma contemplata da qualche dizionario,
come "meno comune". L'informazione che tale forma e' usata talvolta da
"buoni scrittori" e' solo un'aggiunta.
Ciao
Antonio

 Per quanto riguarda la musica.
        E' meglio che vada a rivedere i vari significati di "far"...
Non e' questione di 'far' in quanto tale, e' un'espressione idiomatica che
suona 'as far as', come in 'as far as I know' (per quanto ne so io), che si
trova spesso in rete abbreviata come AFAIK.
Ciao


 wrote in a message
E' vero, la regola dice troncamento (qual e'); pero' alcuni dizionari
danno "qual'e'"  come forma alternativa



Ah ho capito, comunque e' sempre corretto vero? Grazie!
--
   A rileggerci!
... Mica pretenderete che M$ paghi per testare il software, VERO??? :-)))

 trova spesso in rete abbreviata come AFAIK.
Si ma vedi purtroppo la fraseologia in inglese per me e' ancora tutta da
scoprire... insomma e' meglio che mi metta a leggere anche dei libri (magari in
versione semplificata) invece di leggere solo i files in inglese di Linux...


Vuoi dire le parole "quale e'"'?? Non ho capito bene cosa intendi dire...
Intende dire che *quale è*, se si vuole eliminare la -e di *quale*, va
scritto senza apostrofo: si tratta di troncamento, non di elisione,
quindi si scriverà *qual è*; anche se alcuni mettono in discussione
tale forma, personalmente batto e ribatto sul troncamento (qual è).
Ciao
	Mariuccia