Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Is the difference between lie and lay a lie?

(I already tried to post this, more or less, I must have messed up
while sending it; I hope it's not a double)
I'm well aware of the difference between the intransitive (irregular)
"lie" and the transitive "lay".
But how I hate it when students come up with questions such as: <<Why
do the lyrics of a song say "I wanna lay like this forever">> and I
have to answer <<I guess it's either you got the lyrics wrong or the
singer did!>>. And students look at me suspiciously... :-)
Well I finally checked and she wasn't wrong, the song is (Truly,
Madly, Deeply - Cascada). I also found this useful webpage
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000877.html
which reminded me that i had always been puzzled by Dylan's Lay Lady
Lay but had never made the connection.
So why write here? It's just to know from the native speakers if they
know how frequent the use of lay as lie is and how they perceive it.
Thanks!
Claudia

 Thanks!
The following note may be of interest to you.
MM
[ excerpted from 
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/lay
 ]
usage: lay has been used intransitively in the sense of ?lie? since the 14th
century. The practice was unremarked until around 1770; attempts to correct
it have been a fixture of schoolbooks ever since. Generations of teachers
and critics have succeeded in taming most literary and learned writing, but
intransitive lay persists in familiar speech and is a bit more common in
general prose than one might suspect. Much of the problem lies in the
confusing similarity of the principal parts of the two words. Another
influence may be a folk belief that lie is for people and lay is for
things. Some commentators are ready to abandon the distinction, suggesting
that lay is on the rise socially. But if it does rise to respectability, it
is sure to do so slowly: many people have invested effort in learning to
keep lie and lay distinct. Remember that even though many people do use lay
for lie, others will judge you unfavorably if you do.

 singer did!>>. And students look at me suspiciously... :-)
If the singer were celibate, then she used the wrong word. If she were not,
then there are two possibilities: either she is just singing about lying in
the grass, in which case she used the wrong word, or else she is talking
about a much more intense activity which involves another person, and thus
used the correct word. And there is always the remote possiblity that the
singer is a chicken, in which case she used the correct word to describe the
joy of laying eggs.  :>)
It doesn't help that the simple past of "lie"is "lay".
A layer can be both a liar and a lier if the layer is a person, but a layer
can only be a lier and never a liar if the layer is a chicken.
"Lay" instead of lie is fairly common in spoken American English.
In songs, there are no rules.
Joe from Massachusetts

 [ excerpted from 
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/lay
 ]
Most interesting.
As a side note, am I wrong in saying that Italian dictionaries lack such
insights on disputed usages?
-- 

 In songs, there are no rules.
..says Bob Dylan... :-)
Thanks Claudia


Our chickens have not yet evolved to the level of communication which
permits deception, unlike your Italian chickens.
I am amazed that the chickens over there have even organized politically,
along with the flowers.
La Margherita, la Rosa in Pugno, il Pollo....   :>)
Joe from Massachusetts

 wrote in message
news:M1sRi.770$os2...@newsfe19.lga...

nel pugno
 Joe from Massachusetts

 permits deception, unlike your Italian chickens.
Pare che i vostri chicken siano dei conigli ;DDD
--