Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Pronuncia inglese.. falsa preoccupazione?

Molte volte ci si preoccupa di come si pronuncia questo o quel termine
in inglese. Sono certamente domande che e' giusto porsi ma spesso la
preoccupazione potrebbe essere eccessiva. Chi ha familiarita' con un
dialetto italiano avra' certamente notato che vi sono variazioni nei
termini e nella pronuncia da zona a zona. Con i dialetti non si puo
dire quale sia la vera pronuncia, sono tutte valide. Personalmente
considero la lingua inglese come un gigantesco dialetto nel quale non
vi sono pronunce sbagliate in se, semmai pronunce piu' desiderabili di
altre. Gli anglofoni raramente danno importanza alla pronuncia di uno
straniero. Acquisire la cosiddetta "pronuncia perfetta" per un non
madrelingua e' praticamente impossibile quindi tanto vale mettersi
l'anima in pace... and get on with it :-)

 madrelingua e' praticamente impossibile
Vai a dirlo alla mia maestra di inglese (italianissima) alla scuola 
elementare!!!
Sembrava un'inglese in tutto e per tutto: carattere (severa e inflessibile 
più della regina), acconciatura a caschetto con tanto di fascia (tipo 
studentessa di un liceo privato inglese) e, dulcis in fundo, pullover e 
gonna a scacchi!!!!!  :D

 l'anima in pace... and get on with it :-)
I don't subscribe to this point of view
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I don't subscribe to this point of view
Russians - Sting ?

 Russians - Sting ?
No, they don't ;)


 I don't subscribe to this point of view
Fine, keep on trying............

 preoccupazione potrebbe essere eccessiva.
Sě, a volte la preoccupazione č eccessiva perché anche tra madrelingua ci 
sono le pronuncie diverse. Č piů importante migliorare la comprensione, e 
non č un grand problema se ritieni un po' dell'accento italiano.

 l'anima in pace... and get on with it :-)
Not impossible, I hope. 
Ciao, FB
-- 
"Is this Miss Prism a female of repellent aspect, remotely connected with
education?". "She is the most cultivated of ladies, and the very picture of
respectability". "It is obviously the same person".
("The Importance of Being Earnest", Oscar Wilde)

...

E' vero che ci sono pronunce diversissime anche in inglese, e questo
non impedisce di capirsi (piu' o meno) tra Manchester e Londra o tra
Auckland e New York.
Credo che il vero ostacolo alla comprensione di alcuni stranieri non
sia la pronuncia di per se' ma il ritmo e l'intonazione delle parole e
delle frasi.
Someone more expert than me could expand on that?

 Fine, keep on trying............
When I look into your eyes, you don't believe me (Who knows the title of
this one?)
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Enrico C ha scritto:
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True, especially as it relates to listening comprehension. As a native 
English (AmEng) speaker, I often have trouble in understanding the 
"accents" in the opening scenes of an English-language film from abroad. My 
ear usually accustoms itself in a short time; a process made easier by the 
context of what's being said. When I realize that the pronuciation of, say, 
a long-I tends to have a OI sound, from then on that problem is overcome 
and it gets slightly easier. Bit by bit, my ear accustoms.
For a foreign listener, that would be more difficult, but not impossible, 
but then there's also the fact that words mutate during normal speech; 
letters elide, whole syllables drop ("G'day!"), ("Yeet yet?": "Did you eat 
yet?") and a whole passel* of problems arise. 
*Southern AmEng for "a lot", probably from the word "parcel".
-- 
If you feel the need to e-mail me, un-not my address first.

 non è un grand problema se ritieni un po' dell'accento italiano.
I agree 100%. The Italian accent is even admired and enjoyed here.
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Roberto ha scritto:
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I agree 100%.



Eh...mi unisco alla richiesta!
Raudo
--------------------------------
Inviato via 
http://arianna.libero.it/usenet/

 bad AmEng.
I think the OP is talking about Italians who can't pronounce English very
well and are worried about it, not mad people who try to pronounce every
word perfectly. 
As for "honestly", if native speakers sometimes don't pronounce the "t", I
should think non-native speakers will do the same after some time, there's
no need to learn how to pronounce "honestly" with or without the T: all in
good time. As time goes by, you learn to omit some letters and not to omit
some other letters, which actually carry the meaning.
"I bambini imitano i propri genitori"
Meaning is not important here. I think I can leave out the "i" in "imitano"
when talking really fast. Other such contractions are not allowed, though.
Bye, FB
-- 
Emily: "I'm going to Europe and I'm going to have a marvellous time. I'm
going to get up at ten and have two glasses of wine at lunch every single
day."
Richard: "Only prostitutes have two glasses of wine at lunch!"
(Gilmore Girls, 501)

 clamorosamente il volume della voce a meta o a fine frase !?
È una sorta di Maurizio Costanzo, no? Anche Costanzo, peraltro, dev'essere
impossibile per uno straniero: sparita ogni "t" dalla sua pronuncia.


 a long-I tends to have a OI sound
What do you mean?
Bye, FB
-- 
Locked from the inside. That can only mean one thing, and I don't know what
it is.
(Murder by Death)

 terribly clear) meaning the diphthong becomes OI instead of AI.
I see what you mean, now. Ye'r royt, bu' it's not the koynd of thing I
loyk. In fact, I don' loyk at all.
Bye, FB
-- 
Mrs. Palmer, in her way, was equally angry. 'She was determined to drop his
acquaintance immediately, and she was very thankful that she had never been
acquainted with him at all'. (Jane Austen)

> I agree 100%. The Italian accent is even admired and enjoyed here.
And you knnow what 'appenz if you don't, don't ya?
Bye, FB
-- 
"Come, dear, we have already missed five, if not six, trains. To miss any
more might expose us to comment on the platform."


 Bye, FB
Noyther do Oy, but the pint...er, point is ths: recognize that it occurs in
some accents, and you'll be better able to understand certain speakers.


 English (AmEng) speaker, 
By the way, Joey, I was wondering --where are you from?
England, Scotland, Canada, Australia...? 
^_______-

 impossibile per uno straniero: sparita ogni "t" dalla sua pronuncia.
Almeno Jay Leno fa ridere.... :-)
Massimo

 when talking really fast. Other such contractions are not allowed, though.
For the sake of precision, in rapid speech you would actually omit the 
final "i" in "bambini"
Massimo

 Bye, FB
Kneecaps?
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Enrico C ha scritto:
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Oh, didn't I mention? I'm sorry; so thoughtless of me. I'm from Botswana.


 
That's typical in Ireland, for example. Have you seen "The Commitments"? 
"Don't use your accents. It's 'ride, Sally, ride', not 'roid, Sally, roid' "
Massimo

impossibile per uno straniero: sparita ogni "t" dalla sua pronuncia.
Non ho mai avuto problemi con Costanzo. Ho qualche difficolta' con
Abatantuono (in "Mediterraneo" o "Puerto Escondido"... lasciamo
perdere quello di "Attilla, Flagello di Dio") e parecchie difficolta'
con Troisi in piu' o meno qualsiasi cosa.
-- 
Adam Atkinson (
gh...@mistral.co.uk
)
I am never forget the day I first meet great Lobachevsky. In one
word he told me secret of success in mathematics: Plagiarise.

 I agree 100%. The Italian accent is even admired and enjoyed here.
What Italian accent are you referring to? There are many. If you mean, 
say, the one used by Joe Pesci in "Goodfellas" (which is actually 
Sicilian accent), well, most of us don't speak that way.
In Italy we have many regional accents, so I guess the way we speak 
English is somewhat influenced by our italian regional accent.
There are however a few common mistakes, shared by most italian learners 
  regardless of their regional accent.
Example: simple past or past participle of verbs ending in "ed" 
pronounced "ayd"
Massimo

 Kneecaps?
Much worse. 
We could stop our exports of Illy coffee and De Cecco pasta to NYC :-)

 pronounced "ayd"
Senza il suono /i/ dopo la /e/, pero'.

 terribly clear) meaning the diphthong becomes OI instead of AI.
/Point/ per "pint" penso sia una pronuncia di alcuni inglesi
dell'Inghilterra, forse Cockney.... (?)

 when talking really fast. Other such contractions are not allowed, though.
Gia'. Non e' affatto ovvio, per chi studia una lingua straniera, che
alcuni suoni possano "cadere" o trasformarsi nel parlato veloce,
mentre altri al contrario sono accentuati con l'intonazione. E'
proprio qui il trucco, IMHO, della pronuncia "nativa"! (uno dei
trucchi, almeno)
:-)

Enrico C ha scritto:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
-- 
In case you're new to this NG, haven't been paying attention, have very
limited knowledge of English or Alzheimer's, let me state that the
foregoing is my opinion of modern, colloquial, American English. (With
apologies to the regular readers and the healthy, for the repetition.) I
point this out to avoid confusing the reader; references to British English
may appear to contradict the foregoing.
(And if you can read and comprehend the immediate foregoing message, your
level of English is not all that bad. :)


 If you feel the need to e-mail me, un-not my address first.
Clear and concise. Clear, at least. (smiling face)


 piu' o meno qualsiasi cosa.
Con Troisi siamo in tanti, a me ci vuole un buon quarto 
d'ora per sintonizzarmi sul suo parlato.
 
-- 
Today no, tomorrow yes.

 della voce a meta o a fine frase !?
Questo è il primo difetto che correggono nelle scuole di 
teatro.
