Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Re: Ancora barzellette..

 I think  it's a very worse average! :-(
"Very bad".
Ciao, FB
-- 
Se dico "siedi!" manca l'oggetto.
Siedo chi? Lei o me?
(da it.cultura.linguistica.italiano)

Can anyone explain me the sentence "Two plus two be fore."?
2 + 2 = 4
Considera che c'e' chi usa "be4" per scrivere before (argh!!!).
'bye
P.S.
Il dilemma amletico di un programmatore C: (2b)|(!2b)

 fa quattro").
Or is it "is four"? I have no idea, I'm a chiavica in maths.
Bye, FB
-- 
"Is this Miss Prism a female of repellent aspect, remotely connected with
education?". "She is the most cultivated of ladies, and the very picture of
respectability". "It is obviously the same person".
("The Importance of Being Earnest", Oscar Wilde)

Sicuro che non sia b4?
Viste entrambe le versioni :-)
'bye

 Considera che c'e' chi usa "be4" per scrivere before (argh!!!).
Grazie a entrambi.
Approfitto per un altro dubbio: cosa significa "jeeper" ?
In un racconto di S. King č tradotta con "cavoli!",  qualcuno ne sa di
piů?(sui dizionari oltre "la jeep" non trovo nulla....)
Ciao.

 degl'innumerevoli eufemismi per "Jesus".
Credi bene, ma - che io sappia - è jeepers, con la s alla fine.
Jeepers			Jesus
Jeepers Creepers	Jesus Christ
Per Max: si usa come esclamazione. In una frase come "Jesus Christ was
born..." non puoi dire "Jeepers Creepers was born...".
"Jeepers Creepers" è anche il titolo di un film.
Sebastiano
-- 
Marcus Dixon : [shouting] Are you ready to party?
Sydney : Are you ready to party?
Marcus Dixon : I speak nine languages. Techno is not one of them. 

nothing to do with ridiculing black people.
Some old literature
http://www.bartleby.com/271/124.html

 >nothing to do with ridiculing black people.
I agree; "be" is used in this way in some southern English dialects,
although it's rare nowadays. It suggests an English yokel, not a black
American.
-- 
Mary

 
Or "one joke in three." (But not "on three.")
I know it seems contradictory to say you can use either "out of" or "in", 
seemingly opposite meanings, but again, hey, that's life.
-- 
If you feel the need to e-mail me, un-not my address first.

 nothing to do with ridiculing black people.
If the source of the joke is American, and from the vocabulary I would
say that it is ("sixth grade class"), what I said is true. I don't
think the teller of the joke here in the USA knows or cares that "be"
was used this way in Old English, or is currently used in some remote
parts of the UK. If you do a Google search you will find ample
references to this use of "be" in black American English. On American
sitcoms you will often hear "be" used as I described, either by blacks
or people imitating blacks. The joke depends on the fact that the
audience is familiar with this use of "be". Are you suggesting that
the audience is an exclusive group of linguists
familiar with the eccentricities of Old English? The joke only makes
sense if the intended audience is familiar with the punch line.
"Little Johnny" (or Littlle Timmy, or Little Billy) jokes are not
restricted to the UK, as a Google search will show many American sites
with jokes written by Americans involving "Little Johnny".
Here is a site which happens to be in Pennsylvania.
http://www.butlerwebs.com/jokes/littlejohnny.htm
Joe from Massachusetts

 wrote in message
news:PYWad.40996$tU4.11672@okepread06...

Joe is probably right on this, but let me throw another_not_ funny_joke at
Max.
An apprentice carpenter enters a lumber store and asks for  2x4's. "How long
do you want them?" - asks the clerk.
And the apprentice:" For a long time. We have to build a house"

 say that it is ("sixth grade class"), what I said is true. I don't
Joe, I have to agree with the others on this one. This is the kind of
word-play punning that sixth-graders (and I) are terribly fond of. (See my
joke about the pig's tail and getting up at 4o'clock in the morning.)


 born..." non puoi dire "Jeepers Creepers was born...".
LOL!


joke about the pig's tail and getting up at 4o'clock in the morning.)
I'd say he's half right. I'll take back what I said about it being a
UK joke. However, I don't except that it's taking the piss out of
black people. The joke translates into Brit Eng. I never thought for
one moment that it was a slur on Cornish people. Only that "little
Johnny" was young and immature.

 Americans,
And what about "is" used instead of "are" and "am"?
In "Porgy and Bess" you find:
Porgy: Bess, you is my woman now...
Bess: Porgy, I's your woman now....
Is this somewhat "black sounding" or is this an actual sample of black 
people's language? (At least in the Thirties.) Just wondering.
(BTW, Porgy and Bess is *all* written this way; and it's something... er... 
well, just don't have the right words to say how beautiful it is.)
Ciao
Ale
-- 
Namárië Valinor 


There is no basis for comparison between a joke which uses word play
(too early/twirly) and a joke which substitutes one verb form for
another. "Be" instead of "is" or "are" is not word play or punning.
Twirly/too early succeds because the audience can imagine someone
using
either form in a real situation. The incongruity of the substitution
makes the joke.
This joke is without a doubt of American origin. Why would someone say
"I don't get this joke"?. Because they are unfamiliar with the common
American black speech patterns which often substitute "be" for other
forms of this verb. Would this "joke" be funny in the UK? Only if
there is some dialect where a similar substitution takes place. But
this joke is by an American, for an American audience, and it
succeeds, with all of its bad taste, because the American audience is
familiar with these speech patterns.
In what real situation would a sixth-grade child say "two plus two be
fore(four)"? When imitating the speech of a black person. Otherwise,
it is not a joke, merely a grammatical error.
Where is the "joke", if black speech patterns are not involved?
Joe from Massachusetts

 people's language? (At least in the Thirties.) Just wondering.
Penso di sě. Non č la prima volta che leggo/sento "you is". Perň, in
effetti, se penso al Black English non mi viene in mente "you is", ma altre
cose. "You is" mi fa venire in mente Roots e i vari film sugli schiavi.
Altro segno distintivo, ad esempio, č la doppia negazione. "I don't start
no trouble".
Una caratteristica importante dell'Ebonic č l'uso di be in senso "to be
always".
"Jack be talking" o "Jack do be talking" significa "Jack is always
talking".
"Jack don't be talking" significa "Jack is not always talking".
Sebastiano/you are what you is
-- 
Jack Bauer : That's the problem with people like you, George. You want
results, but you never want to get your hands dirty. I'd start rolling up
your sleeves. 

 Sebastiano/you are what you is
It was written to represent the actual speech of blacks (who weren't
"blacks" then, but "negroes") and I believe it to be an accurate
representation of southern black language of that time. I wasn't around
then, so I'm only basing this on informed perception, if such a thing
exists.


 Where is the "joke", if black speech patterns are not involved?
Nobody here is saying that was the funniest joke ever.
Bye, FB
-- 
Nasalization is just a part of life.
(Joey DoWop Dee on it.cultura.linguistica.inglese)

Or is it "is four"? I have no idea, I'm a chiavica in maths.
"two and two is four" is usual these days. "two and two are four" is
extremely old-fashioned. There's a song about an inchworm from several
decades ago which includes lines "two and two are four, four and four
are eight, eight and eight are sixteen". I suppose someone who said
"two and two are four" today would also be inclined to say "The news
are good" and "These data are interesting".
-- 
Adam Atkinson (
gh...@mistral.co.uk
)
Poor Impulse Control

 
Infatti prima di postare sul ng ho cercato su google, ma ho desistito dopo aver 
trovato solo riferimenti al film! :-)
Mi chiedo: dove posso cercare(in rete) il significato di termini come questo?
 
Grazie.

there is some dialect where a similar substitution takes place.
I can imagine some characters in "The Archers" talking like this. It's
a radio soap opera set in a fictional location somewhere around Devon
or Cornwall.
-- 
Adam Atkinson (
gh...@mistral.co.uk
)
Un contributo alla lotta contro l'analfabetismo matematico in Italia:
http://www.mistral.co.uk/ghira/lotto/index.html


The joke is undoubtedly of American origin, for an American audience.
It may coincidentally and unintentionally be understood in the UK, but
that does not change the intent of the original author of the joke.
The same joke, from another source, is identical to the original
posted joke, with one difference; the name of the child who knows how
to
spell "before". Instead of "Little Johnny", it is now "Tyrone".
http://www.mail-archive.com/frien...@titan.centrin.net.id/msg00260.html
"The teacher asks, "Tyrone, can you spell 'before'?"
Tyrone stands up and says, "Before, B-E-F-O-R-E ."
"Excellent Tyrone, now can you use it in a sentence?" Tyrone says,
"That's easy. Two plus two be fore."
The use of the name "Tyrone" here is significant, considering the joke
is written by an American for an American audience. Why?
Joe from Massachusetts

 "Nitpicking" offensive? Surely I don't get something?
I suppose it's offensive to people who have nits...
-- 
Mary

 people, or Archers characters.
I disagree that this joke could be presented as being about blondes or
Irish people, since the punch line is not part of their speech
pattern, and makes no sense in the context of this speech pattern.
If "Little Blondie" or "Little Paddy", or even "Little Johnny" instead
of "Tyrone" were to deliver the punch line, it would be an
incongruity, and would do nothing to set up the punch line, since
there is nothing in their stereotypical speech patterns which
would clarify the punch line. By using "Tyrone", the joke writer is
setting the audience up to the fact that a black person is delivering
the punch line, therefore "be fore(four)" makes sense. I can't speak
about the "Archers", since I don't know if there is anything unusual
and stereotypical about the patterns of speech of a particular group
presented on the show.
What makes the joke, in whatever bad taste, is that the reader, seeing
the name "Tyrone", knows that what follows is somehow related to black
people - and seeing "be fore" he recognizes the speech pattern of
blacks in America. Without this recognition, there is no joke - merely
an incongruous grammatical error.
The original joke, IMHO, probably used the name "Tyrone", but was
changed to something less offensive and stereotypical, in order to
meet the standards of political correctness. It also allowed a joke
which was potentally offensive and inflammatory to be included in the
lists of "good, clean, inoffensive" jokes, its racial undertones being
masked by the removal of the offending "Tyrone".
At the same time, the effect of the punch line was diluted, by failing
to associate it with the speech pattern being taken to task, causing
readers to say, understandably, "I don't get the joke" - which was the
reason for the original post.
Joe from Massachusetts

 Your English has really improved Max.
Really?  
Wait  that I lose my dictionary and you'll have a different opinion! :-)
Thank anyway!

 masked by the removal of the offending "Tyrone".
It was only a joke. I don't wish to appear provocative, but I'm not sure a
wise person would resent such a joke. It wasn't a very good one, to be
sure, but offensive?
Bye, FB
-- 
Mrs. Palmer, in her way, was equally angry. 'She was determined to drop his
acquaintance immediately, and she was very thankful that she had never been
acquainted with him at all'. (Jane Austen)

 That's not my finger. 
Not so dirty.
Bye, FB
-- 
Just as I thought. Another test that could have cost us our lives, saved
only by the fact that I am enormously well-bred.
(Murder by Death)

 Italy.
I've just thought that maybe much depends on your entourage: I might hear
the most appalling things in the house next to mine, for all I know *.
* does anybody in the English-speaking world still say "for aught I
know/care"? It's something I've been wondering for a while, since I found
"before aught else was made" in Tolkien's Silmarillion, which I know is
written in an aulic style.
Bye, FB
-- 
Emily: "I'm going to Europe and I'm going to have a marvellous time. I'm
going to get up at ten and have two glasses of wine at lunch every single
day."
Richard: "Only prostitutes have two glasses of wine at lunch!"
(Gilmore Girls, 501)

 
www.onelook.com
Ma come diavolo farei senza di voi?  :-)
Questo entra sicuro tra i miei bookmarks!
Grazie.


More "Power" to you, FB. He was a contemporary of William Powell and
Dick Powell, a mental lapse on my part.
Joe from Massachusetts



You spoiled my joke!!!
Bye, FB
-- 
"The doctors found out that Bunbury could not live, that is what I mean—so
Bunbury died".
"He seems to have had great confidence in the opinion of his physicians".
("The Importance of Being Earnest", Oscar Wilde)

 Thank anyway!
Wait no more! You can't say "wait that"; you mean "wait until" :-D
ThankS anyway!
(But it definitely has improved, Max.)
-- 
In case you're new to this NG, haven't been paying attention, have very
limited knowledge of English, or have Alzheimer's, let me state that the
foregoing is my opinion of modern, colloquial, American English. (With
apologies to the regular readers and the healthy, for the repetition.) I
point this out to avoid confusing the reader; references to British English
may appear to contradict the foregoing.
(And if you can read and comprehend the immediate foregoing message, your
level of English is not all that bad. :)


 become completely integrated with us.
Erase and rewind:
"I have no idea of what will happen when black people succeed to become
completely integrated with us".


 I did, didn't I?
You did - sorry, I'll try to get back in my body now.
-- 
questo articolo e` stato inviato via web dal servizio gratuito 
http://www.newsland.it/news
 segnala gli abusi ad 
ab...@newsland.it

man than live next door to a ***damned Frenchman".
What he said doesn't seem nice regarding black men too  :-)
Lately, here in northern Italy, some xenophobic people have got
another target for their hatred, muslims:
http://www3.varesenews.it/varese/articolo.php?id=9583
'bye

 Re: Racism in Italy and the United States (ERA: Ancora barzellette)
Ancora meglio:
Racism in italy and the United States [Re: Ancora barzellette]
Infatti Re: sta per "risposta a" e un articolo intitolato "racism etc" 
non esisteva prima.
P.

 the black nation of Haiti, the government several years ago launched
Oops.
The island of Hispaniola, not Dominica, is the home to the nations of
Haiti and the Dominican Republic.
Dominica is an entirely different island nation.
Joe from Massachusetts

 You did
Well, in fact Dialog did it for me. (smiling face) 


 
Yes,  only a little ;-)

Look this too:
Little Johnny is standing on the platform at the railway station. His mother
thinks he's standing a bit close to the edge, so she says,  "Hey Johnny, get
back away from the edge before a train comes by and sucks you off."  At this,
Little Johnny smiles and yells out,  "C'mon train! "
I have no idea on meaning of "C'mon".
A little doubt too: "suck off" means something like "trascinare via/portar via",
doesn't it?
I haven't found this phrasal verb on my Zanichelli.
Thanks.

 (But it definitely has improved, Max.)
Thanksssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss! :-)
I hope I put enough 'S's this time :-)

doesn't it?
Per quello che voleva dire la madre vuol dire piu' o meno quello, ma
non e' cio' che ha inteso Little Johnny :-)
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861716689
'bye

 I haven't found this phrasal verb on my Zanichelli.
I have in mine. *Ragazzini* (I've nothing to do with it) says:
QUOTE (Ragazzini 2003)
$suck off
v. t. + avv.
(volg.) succhiare, spompinare (volg.).
UNQUOTE
Since it reports no other acceptation, I wonder if "it sucks you off"
meaning, I guess, "ti risucchia via" isn't a little far-fetched.
Bye, FB
-- 
In any case, if you say 'I gotta go' at an important job interview you're
contributing to being allowed just that privilege.
(Tony the ice man on it.cultura.linguistica.inglese)

 'bye
Se non erro l'artefice è Mario Borghezio, europarlamentare.
-- 
Yeah, whatever...

 Since it reports no other acceptation
??
-- 
Mary

 ??
What's wrong? I meant "Giacché non riporta altre accezioni". "Report"?
"Acceptation"?


 "Acceptation"?
"Accezione" = meaning.
I was about to say that "acceptation" doesn't exist, but I see from the
dictionary it does. 
However, it must be a technical term only used by grammarians, because
I've never heard it before (and nor has Picchi).
-- 
Mary

 I've never heard it before (and nor has Picchi).
I suspected as much, but it's correct anyway, isn't it?
Bye, FB
-- 
Se dico "siedi!" manca l'oggetto.
Siedo chi? Lei o me?
(da it.cultura.linguistica.italiano)

 I suspected as much, but it's correct anyway, isn't it?
So it seems, but don't use it in ordinary conversation - no-one will
have the slightest idea what you're talking about.
-- 
Mary

 - no-one will have the slightest idea what you're talking about.
Is that a bad thing? (smiling face) After all I'm a foreigner, so I'd
better be clear when I write/speak.


 Re: Racism in Italy and the United States (ERA: Ancora barzellette)
I don't want to upset the apple cart, but in such cases I would go
straight with the new Subject without adding any "Era:...(Old
Subject)" or "Was:...(Old Subject)", which could mess up Google
searches and filters on the Subject in newsreaders.
:-)

"Mary Cassidy" <ma...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:4171232E...@invalid.invalid...

I can't recall ever having seen or heard that word, either.
Joe from Massachusetts

 non e' cio' che ha inteso Little Johnny :-)
Questa era l'unica cosa che avevo capito! :-)

 QUOTE (Ragazzini 2003)
To be precise I have the "Ragazzini/Biagi concise" and so I think "suck off" is
a victim of
a smaller version of that dictionary.
Bye