Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Piccolo dubbio.

A tutto il newsgroup una domanda semplicissima: come diavolo si dice ti
voglio bene in inglese ? Qualcuno mi ha detto "I love you" , ma allora non
fanno distinzione tra ti amo e ti voglio bene ?!?



Non so, a me non lo ha mai detto nessuno :(
Mi sembra che 'I love you' sia valido in entrambi i casi, ed e' il contesto
in cui viene detto a stabilire cosa significa davvero, ma posso sbagliare.
La parola ai madrelingua.
+--
I know you can't speak, I know you can't sign
So cry right here on the dotted line

fanno distinzione tra ti amo e ti voglio bene ?!?
No.  We love everyone over here.  I wouldn't know how to translate "ti voglio
bene" which ,if you think about it, sounds a bit strange  (it voglio bene = I
want you well).
You can say "I care about you"  "I am fond of you"  "I have feelings for you" .
 Maybe someone else can come up with a better way of expressing "ti voglio
bene".
ciao
Arianna

 bene".
Sono d'accordo con tutto tranne la prima frase di cui faccio scusarti perchè
vivevi a San Francisco nell'ultima parte degli anni sessanta. A volte pensavo di
quest'argumento di "ti voglio bene" contro "ti amo." È come "conoscere" contro
"sapere" per cui c`è soltanto il verbo "to know" in inglese. Esistano anche gli
esempi per cui c`è soltanto un verbo italiano per un paio dei verbi inglesi con
i significati particulari. Ma rimettendo ancora all'argumento di volere qualcuno
bene, mi sembra che c`era una volta un traduttore abbia deciso che "I love you"
è stata la migliore traduzione dell'espressione e si è affermata. Perchè no la
traduciamo come "I have a deep affection for you" per esempio? Allora, il
problema sarebbe risolto! Ci sarebbero ora le due traduzioni diversi per "ti
amo" e "ti voglio bene!"
Ciao,
Ron (chi, meno male, non ha un affetto profundo per tutti)
USA

 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:9m3jpp$673p$1...@ID-55125.news.dfncis.de...


 for you" .
Si puņ dire "I care _for_ you"? O ha un significato diverso?
Max

vivevi a San Francisco nell'ultima parte degli anni sessanta. 
Grazie Ron, you are the only one who can understand me!
Peace and Love Man!
Arianna


I don't know.  I have expressed my opinion on  the use of prepositions numerous
times and I have been wrong on many occasions so now I will just say that I am
not sure.  Sometimes "care for" is used for an action rather than a state of
mind.  EX: nurses care for their patients or Mothers care for their babies
(meaning that they take care of them, not just love them).
I am sure someone else can give you a better answer. 
bye
arianna

Ciao,
ti scrivo dall'America, con esperienza toccata con mano!
I LOVE YOU e' l'espressione comune per TI AMO e TI VOGLIO BENE. Lo diece il marito alla mogle, ma anche la mamma ai figli.
C'e' pero' un espressione per INNAMORARSI, che e' TO FALL IN LOVE. Quindi: I AM FALLING IN LOVE WITH YOU = MI STO INNAMORANDO DI TE o piu' semplicemente MI SONO INNAMORATO DI TE. Ma se devi dire TI AMO usi I LOVE YOU.
Ciao,
Francesca

Grazie a tutti coloro che mi hanno risposto . La mia preoccupazione è di
dire a un'amica I love you e di essere frainteso...


ok.... wait a minute now.  It's true that there is really no translation for
"ti voglio bene" and that "I love you" is used among relatives and friends, BUT
if you were to say to a woman who's not a relative or a VERY VERY close friend
"I love you" she would probably assume that your're in love with her.  I would
not use "I love you" with a male friend, unless it was  under very particular
circumstances, as let's say for example, he was on his death bed.
What does everyone else think? 
ciao
arianna

gfca...@aol.com
 (GFCARRERA) wrote:

Esatto, ma si può anche usare la frase "I love you" se si manda
un virus, naturalmente ;-)
J

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
I think she is right, you want to be careful to say such things, unless the context
rules out any misunderstanding. Now, you don't have to wait until she is dying,
though :)))  May be you could tell her something like you are glad to have her 
as a friend ? 
In my opinion, to say 'ti voglio bene' to a friend you really love is generally superfluous;
usually, your behavior towards a person you (friendly) love is telling enough.


 What does everyone else think?
Personally, I think you can say "I love you" to everyone you love--man or woman,
relative or friend. I think most of us know or should know how to say such terms
of endearment to others with the right tone and inflection to communicate the
appropriate message. That message may be romantic love, familial love, platonic
love, or momentary lust.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

I LOVED YOU BUT I DIDN'T FALL IN LOVE WITH YOU.....
( TI VOLEVO BENE MA NON TI AMAVO )
-------------------------------------------
CHILD : MUM , WHAT DOES YOUR HEART TELL YOU ....
DO YOU LOVE ME ???
MOTHER : I LOVE YOU MORE THAN INFINITY 
CHILD : YOU LOVE DAD ??
MOTHER : I'M IN LOVE FOR YOUR DAD
--------------------------------------------
DANNY - MOM , DO YOU LOVE DAD ?
FORMER WIFE - I WILL ALWAYS LOVE YOUR DAD BECAUSE HE GAVE ME YOU BUT I'M NOT IN LOVE FOR YOU DAD ANYMORE ...
WE'RE JUST VERY BOSOM FRIEND , AND I REALLY LOVE HIM..
JUST LIKE YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS....
DO YOU LOVE TIMOTHY , UH ??
DANNY - YUP , HE'S MY BEST FRIEND , I REALLY LOVE HIM
FORMER WIFE - AND ....DO , TELL ME !!
ARE YOU IN LOVE FOR SOME GALS IN YOUR SCHOOL .... ??
ARE YOU KEEPING SOMETHING FROM ME ....SPORT ??
DANNY - MUM !!!! STOP IT !!! YOU'RE MAKING ME BLUSH...
DO NOT CHUCKLE CHUCKLE , GIRLS ARE NASTY !!!! 
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 (it voglio bene = I want you well).
'Bene', as in the idiomatic phrase 'voler bene a qualcuno',
is actually a noun, not an adverb. But I reckon it would
sound just as outlandish if you were to translate it quite
literally ("I want good to you") - I suspect that if you
ever say that to someone, then a pretty baffled look is
what you're most likely to get in response. :-)
Ciao
Matteo B.

 un virus, naturalmente ;-)
Especially if you're lovesick. :-)
Ciao
Matteo B.

what you're most likely to get in response. :-)
That was exactly my point, but even as a noun it doesn't make much sense.  I
don't understand the construction "ti voglio + a noun."
ciao
arianna

MOTHER : I LOVE YOU MORE THAN INFINITY 
....more than infinity?  I 've never heard that and it doesn't sounds right to
me.  To express an infinite amount of love, I would say "I love you more than
life".  Besides, "Infinity" is the name of a car.  It sounds like "I love you
more than Accord" or "I love you more than Bronco".
ciao
arianna

 Si può dire "I care _for_ you"? O ha un significato diverso?
    Ho appena effettuato una ricerchina terminologica su un certo numero di
corpora inglesi di varia natura, per un totale di alcuni milioni di parole.
"Care FOR" appare una trentina di volte di piú di "care ABOUT". Non solo, ma
la preposizione "for" viene adoperata per lo piú per affetti personali,
tant'è che ciò che viene dopo è sovente un pronome personale o un nome di
persona. Al contrario, "about" ha significato piú "neutro", meno emotivo,
tant'è che si può "care about" un argomento, un'azione (sempre forma
in -ing), un'iniziativa, etc.
    Ciao,
            Nicola
--
Multa non quia difficilia sunt non audemus, sed quia non audemus sunt
difficilia (Seneca).

 relative or friend.
    Well, perhaps you're right, but I would warmly recommend non-native
speakers like myself to be VERY careful with such expressions with friends
you're not dating or wooing. I mean, regardless of one's linguistic
competence, mastering one's feelings when speaking in another language can
be very dangerous, since you can never be totally sure about native
speakers' reactions.
    When I lived in America I remember that I caused quite a lot of
misunderstandings, until I realised this. I probably said "I love you" just
a couple of times in a year, but even when I was (sincerely) trying to
express endeavour, friendship, comprehension, etc. with milder words, my
interlocutors often misunderstood my intentions. That's why for a while
people thought that I was trying to "get" all the girls and that I was
trying to achieve homosexual relationships with all the guys! :-)
    Bye,


 what you're most likely to get in response. :-)
How would you translate and explain "stammi bene?"
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 trying to achieve homosexual relationships with all the guys! :-)
Forse, era perchč sei cosě bello? Infatti, hai ragione, meglio che qualcuno che
non parla facile l'inglese dica "Im fond of you" o "I like you a lot."
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 intentions.
Since this is an English language newsgroup, let me suggest some improvements to
your fine English. One doesn't express "endeavor" although one can endeavor to
express camaraderie. Also, you might have meant to say "understanding" instead
of "comprehension." In addition, the word "interlocutors," although it can be
used to mean "people with whom you spoke" rather than "people who questioned
you," is . . . oh, never mind, it's just fine.
Ciao,
Ron
USA


Take care?


 ...
Am I the only one to notice that none of your examples is pertinent with the original
question (i.e. how to directly tell 'I love you' to a non relative) ?


 MOTHER : I'M IN LOVE FOR YOUR DAD
 
A hint: kill those capitals. I am definitely NOT in love with them,
or even enamoured.
In the interests of better English the constructions are:
To be in love with someone.
To have love/caring feelings/disdain (whatever) for someone.
To care, or not care, for someone.
To love/like/care for someone.
Loki
-- 
  Brevity is the soul of wit.    W.Shakespeare

I guess "I like you" or "I really like you" are too luke-warm. How about
turning it round and saying "we're friends" or if only half the relationship
exists ""you're my friend"

...
How dare you correct him? He is an English teacher, remember...? ;)


 That was exactly my point, but even as a noun it doesn't make much sense.
I think I understand what you mean, but when you approach
a language (not only a foreign one) you do come across loads
of words/phrases/constructions that apparently defy logic.
I don't know where the phrase 'voler bene a qc' comes from,
or how it evolved in the Italian language, but perhaps some
explanation about its origin might help to clarify this quirk
(although I'm afraid it would be OT on this NG).
In English too there are quite a few idioms which don't seem
to make much sense to me. 'Could do with' is one of them.
I've got some difficulty in understanding how it ever came
to signify 'would profit by', 'would be glad to have', so that
a sentence like 'she could do with a bit a swimming' would
be rendered more or less 'le farebbe bene un po' di nuoto',
or something along that line.
Ciao
Matteo B.

 How would you translate and explain "stammi bene?"
'Stammi bene' sounds to me like a very Italian way of
expressing good wishes on parting. I tend to believe
that it corresponds roughly to 'farewell' (if you attempt
a very literal translation), but then 'farewell' sounds pretty
formal, doesn't it? - I suppose it's hardly ever used in
friendly, relaxed situations (except maybe ironically), as
opposed to 'stammi bene', which is actually colloquial
speech.
Maybe 'take care of yourself', or simply 'take care' could
be an adequate translation, but then again I've got the
impression that these are not used so frequently in British
English (my pretty imperfect knowledge of the English
language is restricted to the insular variety).
Ciao
Matteo B.

 MOTHER : I LOVE YOU MORE THAN INFINITY
Sarà una mamma epistemologo.

....more than infinity?  I 've never heard that and it doesn't sounds right to
me.  To express an infinite amount of love, I would say "I love you more than
life".  Besides, "Infinity" is the name of a car.  It sounds like "I love you
more than Accord" or "I love you more than Bronco".
_------_-------_------_-------_-------_-------_-------
Just for the records , it's a kinda childish phrase , 
just like "itsy bitsy"
In fact , I would venture to say that it's a new england's prerogative , as well as Canada's ( BC ),
or Huron and Renfrew Counties' ,but I'm not quite sure.
I homeschool my nephews , and they dole out this sort
of "funny mistakes" 
for instance 
I LOVE YOU MORE THAN VERY MUCH 
I LOVE YOU MUCCHER
UNIVERSE OF BUSSES ( kisses )
not to mention my favorite :
WE'RE CAMERING MUM ( mistake for "photograph" )
Do , make a web research , you can rest assured 
it will turn up a bunch of similar quotes , 
MORE THAN INFINITY as well....
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

Am I the only one to notice that none of your examples is pertinent with the original
question 
(i.e. how to directly tell I love you' to a non relative)?
----___------___-----___------____------____-----___---
DO YOU LOVE TIMOTHY , UH ?? ( FRIEND )
VUOI BENE PER TIMOTHY ----- ( volere bene ...amicizia )
DANNY - YUP , HE'S MY BEST FRIEND , 
I REALLY LOVE HIM = ( voglio bene a lui )
FORMER WIFE - AND ....DO , TELL ME !!
ARE YOU IN LOVE FOR SOME GALS IN YOUR SCHOOL .... ??
( be in love with ( for ) ) = INNAMORATO
Sei innamorato con delle ragazze ???
1 - Former husband
I LOVE HIM 
Volere bene 
2 - Son
I LOVE YOU
Volere bene
3 - Husband
IN LOVE FOR [ better yet( WITH )] HIM
Amare
Amico - Amica
I LOVE YOU BUT I'M NOT IN LOVE WITH YOU
Ti voglio bene ma non ti amo
4 - Son's pal
I LOVE HIM
Volere bene
5 - School gals
ARE YOU IN LOVE ?
Amare
SYNOPSIS : 
Husband = Kin
Son = Kin
Friend = Non relative
Gals = Non relative
Former Husband = Non relative
As for = BEING IN LOVE
You can use both WITH and FOR
I'M FALLING IN LOVE FOR ( with ) HIM
Although FOR is somewhat AMERICAN and 
GRAMMAR RELAXED all the same ERRONEOUS
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



 your fine English.
    Thanx (*) for your suggestions. I must admit I have the bad habit of
never re-reading my messages before posting them, therefore I invariably
make some stupid mistakes.
    Bye,
           Nicola
(*) I know that "thanx" is incorrect, I thank you in advance for correcting
me :-)


 How dare you correct him? He is an English teacher, remember...? ;)
When encountering responsibility, respond. When encountering ignorance, ignore.
Ciao,
Ron
USA


In my opinion, when expressing emotion, the tone and inflection of the voice
communicate more than words. But I've said this already several times in recent
posts and I'm beginning to bore myself. Given the rarity of that state I can
only imagine what may be happening to innocent readers. So, let's move on.
To communicate friendship, you can always be more creative and specify
particular qualities or conditions to get your idea across. For example, "I
trust you enough to leave my Palm Pilot on your desk with the security
disabled." Or, "I think so highly of you that I'd entrust the care of my mother
to you if I should ever die in a plane crash." Or, "What I'm going to tell you
next could jeopardize the security of the free world should it fall into the
wrong hands..."
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 me :-)
In questo caso, dovresti ringraziarmi per non correggerti.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 be an adequate translation...
Yes, but I was referring to the strange quality of its literal translation. I
believe that would be "stay well for me."
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 I've got some difficulty in understanding how it ever came
Not to argue with your main point, but this example doesn't seem so odd to my
ears. To be able "to do" something--or to be enabled--means to have the power,
ability, or capability to accomplish something, such as improve your situation.
So, if you had a hammer, you could hammer in the morning (or the evening for
that matter). If you were a carpenter without a hammer, you could do with a
hammer.
Ciao,
Ron
USA



As all idioms, "Stammi bene" is literally meaningless and does not
have a literal translation. It is interesting for me to see italian idioms
pointed out because I am so used to them that I almost never notice them ;)



Well, in Genova there is a saying that goes "Ti voglio piu' bene che a una
nidiata di topi guerci". It means "I love you more than a litter of blind rats"
and you can use it as a kind of rough way to say I love you. I wonder how
it sounds to english ears...?


 UNIVERSE OF BUSSES ( kisses )
Now there is a weird word! 'bussing' for kissing just doesn't go with
my image of a line of red double deckers in a London street.
BTW Have you ever felt the need for a tart citrus drink, what with
all that sweetness abounding?  ;-) 


 wrong hands..."
:-) How about
I trust you enough to even consider loaning you my business laptop...
(as opposed to laughing outright at the thought)
I trust you enough to look after my girlfriend/boyfriend (as
applicable) while I'm away. 
Cheers,


Personally, I think you can say "I love you" to everyone you love--man or woman,
relative or friend. I think most of us know or should know how to say such terms
of endearment to others with the right tone and inflection to communicate the
appropriate message. That message may be romantic love, familial love, platonic
love, or momentary lust.
-----____-----____-----____------____---____-----____--
That was terrific !!!!
You've come up with a satisfactory and smart answer.
WAY TO GO !!!!!!!!!
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

Since this is an English language newsgroup, let me suggest some improvements to
your fine English......... used to mean 
<<"people with whom you spoke">> rather than 
"people who questioned you" 
-----____------_____-----_____-----_____------____----
BETTER YET , AS WELL AS MORE COMMON :
 -----------------------------
|"PEOPLE WHO(M) YOU SPOKE WITH" |
 -----------------------------


 hammer.
Un altro di quei deliziosi sottotesti che ami tanto, per caso?
(Sì, lo so, sono malizioso, ma non sei tu quello che
vorrebbe elevare al rango di arte l'uso consapevole
di un linguaggio ambiguo?)

 Un altro di quei deliziosi sottotesti che ami tanto, per caso?
Haha, no. Ero nel umore capriccioso e stavo soltanto divertendomi un po. Le
parole "If I had a hammer" vengono da una canzone vecchia di Pete Seeger.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 parole "If I had a hammer" vengono da una canzone vecchia di Pete Seeger.
Is he the bloke in the picture?
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JimCapaldi/Ildi3.jpg
Forse è una questione di scarto generazionale.
Tra me e te, intendo.
Ciao
Matteo B.

 Tra me e te, intendo.
Al meno una questione di scarto culturale.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 Al meno una questione di scarto culturale.
Come darti torto?
Ciao
Matteo B.

 it sounds to english ears...?
Idiosyncratic, not to mention, picturesque, in a kind of gruesome
way. 
(Picturesque may not be the word I'm looking for here.)
;-)


 Come darti torto?
Ma Matteo, no, se capisco cosa intendevi dire (e spesso capisco male
l'italiano). Questa č una piccola barzelleta? Metti qualche valore diversa alle
culture diverse? Insomma, tutte le culture hanno qualche parte ricca, banale,
interresante, e annoiosa a me. Dimmi del tuo piccolo dubbio, che cosa vuoi
sapere?
Spero che tu abbia capito l'esempio "If you were a carpenter without a hammer,
you could do with a hammer."
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 sapere?
Ron, I think you're taking things a bit too seriously.
Mine was merely a half-humorous retort, I certainly
didn't mean it to carry any serious implications on
the subject of cultural diversity.
Ciao
Matteo B.

 the subject of cultural diversity.
And I was half-playacting. ;-)
Ciao,
Ron
USA

Meno male che era un piccolo dubbio. E' diventato un thread lunghissimo. Cmq
è sempre bello parlare d'amore,
sia in italiano che in inglese.
Io ho notato che loro usano sempre ed in ogni caso I love you. Ed è il
contesto a definire il significato del significante.
Tra le altre cose, anche in italiano la cosa non è poi così chiaro. A volte
se una ragazza si sente dire: ti voglio bene, mentre il tizio sta facendo
l'amore con lei, è molto contenta e viceversa.
A volte dipende dal tono, infatti, un ti amo detto con tono freddo, è amore
vero?
Ed un ti voglio bene detto con tono molto caldo, davvero è mero affetto o
qualcosa di più?
Gli anglosassoni giocano su queste sfumature e nulla di più.
Bye
Franco