Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Come parlo? (Mary Shelley)

Cercando di seguire i consigli di Massimo e Mike, mi accingerò in una
lettura più spedita.
La Creatura di Frankenstein si rivolge al suo creatore:
"You, doubtless, recollect these papers. Here they are. Everything  is
related in them which bears reference to my accursed origin; the whole
detail of that series of disgusting circumstances which produced it is set
in view; the  minutest description of my odious and loathsome person is
given, in language  which painted your own horrors and rendered mine
indelible."
 
http://www.lillathedog.net/icling/clips/enrico3.mp3
Che dite della mia registrazione? A me pare un po' migliore dell'altra,
-- 
enrico /dot/ c /at\ people \dot\ it

 Che dite della mia registrazione? A me pare un po' migliore dell'altra,
I'm not a native speaker, so I'm not in a position to judge. I only observe
that I've found a basic inconsistency in your pronunciation: you're nearly
as pedant as I am when it comes to IPA, and then, for instance, you
pronounce "rendered" more or less as it's written, neither ['rEnd@d] nor
['rEn(d)@rd].
Bye, FB
-- 
"Is this Miss Prism a female of repellent aspect, remotely connected with
education?" "She is the most cultivated of ladies, and the very picture of
respectability" "It is obviously the same person".
("The Importance of Being Earnest", Oscar Wilde)

 ['rEn(d)@rd].
Sei troppo gentile a chiamarla  inconsistency! Trattasi di strafalcione
bello e buono :)

 wrote in message
news:F4019E3E200412...@news.lillathedog.net...

My old Italian teacher always admonished me to "leggere ad alta voce"
(although he always spoke Italian with me, never English). I would say
this advice is applicable here. From your accent (rather flat), I
would say that you rarely, if ever, speak with native speakers of
English. It seems to me that you are phoneticizing what you see on the
written page. The only way to develop a good accent is by imitation
and repetition.
I would suggest finding some material which is both interesting and
well-written ( perhaps a contemporary novel,  which does not contain
an excess of slang or archaic language, which is read by a speaker
with a good accent, and which is available both in text and audio
format.
Listen to a few paragraphs of the material, attempting to mimic (ad
alta voce) every nuance in the reader's voice, perhaps exaggerating a
bit at first - essentially, you have to memorize what you hear. Then
record the paragraphs, and compare your voice to the reader. This
procedure has to be repeated over and over until you are satisfied
that you have come close to capturing the reader's voice.
I don't think Mary Shelley is the ideal candidate for this type of
learning, unless you are attempting to sound pedantic and archaic. You
need something which is more modern and colloquial.
I have seen several contemporary books available on certain newsgroups
in both text and audio format.
Joe from Massachusetts

 procedure has to be repeated over and over until you are satisfied
<snip>
Thank you very much for the advice. I'll definitely try your method!  


 Che dite della mia registrazione? A me pare un po' migliore dell'altra
Beh, di certo non sembravi un madrelingua inglese nella lettura ;-)
La mia prof di inglese ti avrebbe detto: "Improve your intonation".
Non che sia facile, anzi, anch'io non ho una perfetta "intonation".
Tschüss,
Enrico il Pentolaio
-- 
(visita il mio sito: 
http://members.xoom.it/srw
)
_____________________________________
" La societa' e' come l'aria, necessaria per respirare, ma insufficiente a
farci sopravvivere." (George Santayana)

Giò
A man has dreams of walking with giants,
to carve his niche in the edifice of time.
Before the mortar of his zeal
has a chance to congeal
the cup is dashed from his lips,
the flame is snuffed aborning.

indelible."
Li fischiano un po' troppo le labbra, sembri avere, per il "th", quasi
lo stesso difetto di pronuncia tipico dei francesi, che fanno
diventare "everything" quasi un "everysing".
Sembra poi che tu dica una specie di "which" tra "everything" e "is".
(terza frase) Boh...
La pronuncia di "accursed" è...è giusta. Sono andato a controllare
perché non mi viene naturale dirla così. Forse è troppo BrEng, troppo
per un italiano :-) scherzo,,,è che dico tutte le cose che ho notato,
giuste sbagliate o irrilevanti che siano.
"Whole" tu lo rendi come "(h)ùl" e non "(h)òl" Ho contrallato la
pronuncia, ed effettivamente la sbagli. E' come la "o" di "nose", sia
in inglese che in americano.
Ti perdi per strada l' "of" tra "detail" e "series".
Tralasciamo "rendered" di cui ti hanno già parlato, io evidenzierei
"horrors", per il quale sembra proprio che tu ti sia preparato in
anticipo a quella "h" aspirata, rendendo così il suono poco naturale,
costruito.
Ti concentri troppo sulla singola pronuncia, perdendo un po' di vista
(di udito) il ritmo della frase intera, fatta di pause anche dove non
ci sono le virgole, di stress su certe parole e non su altre, di
pezzetti di frase detti lentamente ed altri di corsa etc. 
E' come se tu stessi leggendo senza capire quello che leggi e senza
quindi cadenzarlo seguendone il flusso logico.


Giņ


Giò




Ah, e poi, come tanti, tiri fuori, con fatica, immagino, il [T] da "t".
Faresti meno fatica e ti verrebbe meglio se ti togliessi la "t" dalla
mente.
Ciao, FB
-- 
Conversation like television set on honeymoon: unnecessary.
(Murder by Death)

(di udito) il ritmo della frase intera, 
<snip di altre interessanti considerazioni>
Sì, vero, è quello che hanno fatto notare anche gli altri, e avete ragione,
l' "intonation" è sicuramente il mio tallone d'Achille su cui devo
lavorare, mentre su altri aspetti (comprensione del parlato, comprensione
dello scritto, anche scrittura), mi sento relativamente più sicuro (beh,
dico *relativamente*, insomma "meno peggio" ;-) 
D'altra parte, a mia parzialissima escusatio, anche la "singola pronuncia"
corretta richiede parecchia attenzione, non penso di far male a cercare di
curarla, è che devo andare oltre, mettere insieme i "mattoncini" a formare
una "casa" e non una catasta disordinata, per usare una metafora! :-)


costruito.
In realtà non l'avevo preparata in anticipo, ma se dà quell'impressione
forse è perché a volte tendo a esagerare l'aspirazione.
Il problema è che "naturalmente" mi verrebbe non aspirare per nieente le h,
un po' come i  Cockney ;) , quindi per compensare questa mia tendenza va a
finire che a volte le esagero, le sottolineo troppo!


Non che sia facile, anzi, anch'io non ho una perfetta "intonation".
Beh, penso che sia un problema un po' di tutti, però io ci devo sbattare la
testa (anzi le orecchie :) in particolare! 
Ho fatto anche dei conversation exchange con madrelingua, ma non sembrano
essere serviti a molto (o forse sì: prima era anche peggio!)
Forse il metodo consigliato da Jo, ripetere e ripetere un brano letto da un
madrelingua, potrà dare dei risultati.
Per verificarlo,  vi tormenterò in futuro con qualche altra lettura...  :->
Grazie anche a te per l'ascolto!


curarla, 
No, ma a questo livello ancora non può essere una priorità, secondo
me.
buona fortuna


finire che a volte le esagero, le sottolineo troppo!
hypercorrection, they say


 condannato a ripeterne gli stessi errori?
Boh, io le frasi che cito nella firma le prendo da un software che ho nel PC
:-))
Tschüss,
Enrico il Pentolaio
-- 
(visita il mio sito: 
http://members.xoom.it/srw
)
_____________________________________


 all...
Mi ricordo ancora due africani in un negozio di elettronica che parlavano
inglese molto "fluently" (davvero!), ma con un'intonazione da far venire il
latte alle ginocchia.
"Hey, dis one can play sidi tuu."
(  In This il suono TH lo rendevano con una semplice D ;too ha la stessa t
di "tutto" e la stessa lunghezza della vocale U del telefono quando è
staccato ...tuu....tuu)


Giň


 in both text and audio format.
non lo sapevo... suggeriscimi almeno uno di questi newsgroup, per
favore! :)
--
ciao
Es
ICQ: 223465821
"isolated idiopathic hemiballismus is always an appropriate excuse"

 wrote in message
news:prgzd.2207$_E5....@twister2.libero.it...

For audio files, check any alt.binaries...  newsgroup containing any
of the words audio, audiobook, spoken word.
For text files, check any alt binaries... newsgroup containing the
word ebook.
It is touch-and-go trying to find a title in both formats, but they do
exist.
Joe from Massachusetts


Alla fine, sarai tu a giudicare la propria pronuncia.
The US has produced some great methods for learning languages, but
there exists a linguistic xenophobia in the US which makes learning
foreign languages a very low priority for most Americans.
Perhaps the most efficacious system ever developed for the independent
study of foreign languages was the FSI language series, developed by
the Foreign Service Institute of the US State Department in the 1960s,
when the need for Russian linguists revealed the lack of linguistic
skills among the general American population. The system was intended
to teach foreign languages to State Department employees who were to
be assigned to foreign countries, but became a useful tool for many
ordinary people when it became available to the general public.
Eventually, most large Public Libraries in the US had many FSI
language courses available for loan to the general public. This
system, unfortunately, has been discontinued, partly because of the
problems involved in keeping the languages updated, partly because of
the fact that it used very thin audio cassette tapes which were often
eaten by uncooperative cassette players, and partly because of the
frustration of continually rewinding the cassette recorder to repeat a
phrase or paragraph.
In addition, in order to make optimum use of this system, special
dual-deck tape recorders were required, which would allow the original
tape to be played on one deck, and which would record the original
tape on track 1 of a second tape, and would allow the voice of the
student to be recorded on track 2 of the second tape. This method was
used mostly in language laboratories, because most students did not
own the special tape recorders.
If this system were available today on CDROM, it would be much more
efficacious, allowing the student to
repeat key segments with a click of the mouse.
This system was the ideal method for learning a foreign language in
isolation, combining substantial grammar and exercise books with audio
dialogues and exercises recorded by native speakers, for each level of
the language. The system relied on repetition with the eventual effect
of having a student memorize dialogues and exercises, without his
being aware that he was memorizing the material.
A good example of the FSI method is the FSI French Course for English
speakers, consisting of four levels, Levels I through IV, which are
still available (but too expensive, and now the audio quality is
poor). The courses consist of four 300-page textbooks and eighty-two
90-minute cassette tapes (that's 123 hours of listening and repeating,
but if you consider that each lesson would probably have to be
repeated on an average of three times, that would be 369 hours of
listening and repeating). At first glance, this sounds like a great
deal of time, but when you consider how many hours you spent in
learning your first language, it is not really that much. With this
system, one could learn French with a good accent, even if locked
alone in a room, and never having seen or spoken to a Frenchman.
Unfortunately, not too many people are dedicated enough to spend so
much time working at a single task. I emphasize that the heart of this
system was listening and repeating, essentially memorizing a dialogue
for each of the 82 tapes, while learning the grammar. Repetition was
the keyword of this system.
http://www.worldlanguage.com/Products/8399.htm
Other educators have developed similar systems, such as John DeFrancis
of Seton Hall University, who many years ago, in conjunction with Yale
University, developed a very effective three-tiered course for
teaching Chinese to speakers of English, which is still used today. He
separated the course into three categories: grammar, using pin-yin
transcription; character learning; and reading Chinese in both
simplified and traditional character sets, accompanied by recordings
of native speakers. Repetition and imitation was the key in this
system also.
Lacking the ideal method, the Pimsleur language learning method is a
good choice for those who have a base in English grammar, and are
merely interested in improving their listening comprehension and
pronunciation. Again, the Pimsleur system involves imitation and
repetition.
Although recording one's voice is not an integral part of the Pimsleur
system, it would be an ideal method of comparing one's pronunciation
with that of the native speaker, and could be easily accomplished on a
Personal Computer.
There is no accompanying textbook in the Pimsleur system, and the
system does not go far enough in its
teaching of the language, but it is a good start.
For anyone with a base in the grammar and vocabulary of English, I
contend that reading contemporary literature aloud is the best way to
improve one's pronunciation, when the reading material is available
in both text and mp3 format, and is read by a speaker with the accent
which the student is trying to learn. At the same time, the student
will be learning new vocabulary and idioms.
Passive methods, such as mere listening to material in the target
language, or watching DVD movies, are a much less effective method of
learning, and serve more as a means of judging one's progress in a
language, rather than serving as a learning tool, although they too
are important.
Joe from Massachusetts