Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: mi aiutereste, per favore?

come si potrebbe tradurre "stochastic drift" in italiano?
Grazie. 

deriva stocastica?

 deriva stocastica?
O forse varianza stocastica? Purtroppo è un termine di statistica e 
probabilità e non ho mai sentito "deriva" in quella terminologia. 

Temo che sia uno di quei casi in cui DEVI parlare con uno
specialista del settore.
Un po' come "twisted wreath product" e "eventually periodic",
le cui traduzioni italiane erano, per me, una sorpresa.

"zuzza" <zu...@zuzza.zu> wrote in message
news:bPPwe.18506$
h5.8...@news3.tin.it

sui termini statistici ho delle grosse lacune :o) ma non credo che drift
corrisponda a varianza (variance)
Ho letto piu' di una volta il termine drift non tradotto nell'ambito
della meccanica dei fluidi.
Comunque qualche volta ci sono dei riferimenti al "termine di deriva"
(drift term appunto) quindi "deriva" viene usato come traduzione in
testi scientifici...pero' appunto, non so nel caso specifico della
statistica.
ciao,
francesca
-- 
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - 
http://www.Mailgate.ORG

 come si potrebbe tradurre "stochastic drift" in italiano?
A naso, "drift stocastico".
Volendo evitare a tutti i costi l'anglicismo (ma perché, poi!?) potrebbe
forse funzionare la già proposta "deriva stocastica".
Questa pagina web (che mi pare tratti proprio della disciplina che
t'interessa) documenta sia l'uso in italiano del termine tecnico "drift"
(maschile invariabile) sia la plausibilità della traduzione "deriva":
http://www.sar.sardegna.it/documentazione/quaderno/2_6.html
--
Cingar
-- 
questo articolo e` stato inviato via web dal servizio gratuito 
http://www.newsland.it/news
 segnala gli abusi ad 
ab...@newsland.it

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"Sono state", or "furono".
Bye, FB
-- 
Mrs. Palmer, in her way, was equally angry. 'She was determined to drop his
acquaintance immediately, and she was very thankful that she had never been
acquainted with him at all'. (Jane Austen)

Eh, gia'.

"zuzza" <zu...@zuzza.zu> ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:bPPwe.18506$h5.8...@news3.tin.it...

drift in ambito scientifico e' quel fenomeno per cui una variabile 
dipendente non si assesta su valori stabili in funzione del tempo, ma 
aumenta piu' o meno lentamente. Deriva mi sembra appropriato. 

 Eh, gia'.
Ci sono parole inglesi, o comunque usate correntemente nella lingua
inglese, che vogliono l'accento grafico?
Per esempio, parole prese in prestito dal francese?
"Café"?
Oppure in inglese le parole straniere perdono gli accenti grafici della
lingua originaria?
-- 
Enrico C
...still legal tender...

Su usenet scrivo gli accenti cosi' perche' sono molto all'antica. So
che ci vuole l'accento su gia' ma non su po', e cosi' via.
Ci saranno dei forestierismi in inglese con accenti (o umlaut),
immagino.
fe^te, cafe', ecc. sarebbero esempi, direi.

 fe^te, cafe', ecc. sarebbero esempi, direi.
Ma come vengono importati in una lingua tradizionalmente senza accenti o
altri segni diacritici, come l'inglese?




Somebody writes "rôle", and I've come across "pianoforté" in old books. I
don't know whether it's still common, because "piano" is the usual word.
Bye, FB
-- 
"Che cos'è un fallo da tergo? E non stiamo parlando della tua vita
privata."
(Intervista della Gialappa's Band a Elisabetta Canalis)

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confermo la traduzione di adam. E' appunto "deriva stocastica", come
ho chiesto ad un mio amico statistico che lavora a Sheffield.

 don't know whether it's still common, because "piano" is the usual word.
The same as Adam, I remember seeing words like rôle, fête, café, etc. ages
ago and you can find them in older editions of dictionaries, but nowadays
they're used without the accents, also in dictionaries.
No pianoforté, though.
-- 
Xakero

 altri segni diacritici, come l'inglese?
Brits travelling across the Channel brought them home as souvenirs :-)
It was fashionable at a certain time in the past to spike one's
conversation with French words and eventually some of them made it into
dictionaries.
The same happens with words of other languages, but to a lesser extent.
Blitzkrieg is a word I remember seeing.
Now, if you are referring to the technical aspects of writing accented
letters, rembember that there were no typewriters or computer keyboards at
the time these words were "imported". Handwriting presented no problem, and
in printing shops these letters became part of the type sets (no computers;
each letter picked up individually with a tweezer and placed into the
galley. You have to go to a museum if you want to see how that worked)
In fact, with the advent of computers the use of accented characters became
more cumbersome and this may be the major reason why the accents have
disappeared in English. After all, who wants to hold down one key (Alt) on
a computer keybord while pressing four other keys (0,2,4,4 on the numeric
keypad) in order to write ô?
-- 
Xakero

 lingua originaria?
Here are some that have retained the accented characters: 
pied à terre
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=59782&dict=CALD
ménage à trois
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=49850&dict=CALD
crème brûlée
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=18210&dict=CALD
mélange
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=49737&dict=CALD
tête-à-tête
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=82174&dict=CALD
bête noire
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=7146&dict=CALD\
fête
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=28557&dict=CALD
précis
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=62258&dict=CALD
More commonly used words --  e.g. chateau, debacle, maitre d', melee, role,
suede (and many more) -- have lost the accent in English.
-- 
Xakero

 Xakero

 But I can't write c without switching to another keyboard.
It depends, I guess, on the type of news reader you use, with other
application programs on the language version and/or the keyboard. Your way
doesn't work with my set-up: 40tude Dialog, US keyboard.
-- 
Xakero

 Here are some that have retained the accented characters: 
Some more from Encarta:
	café
	café au lait
	café de move-on
	café latte
	café noir
	café society
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 wrote in message
news:3iiqfpF...@individual.net...
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What do you mean by "US keyboard"
-  a physical keyboard with US English characters
   embossed on them, with English as the
   selected language, with the "US keyboard"
   selected as the keyboard layout;.
- a different physical keyboard with a default language other than
English using the software
  "US keyboard"?
Joe from Massachusetts

   "US keyboard"?
In Control Panel (Windows XP), Keyboard, Hardware it says "Standard
101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard"
In Control Panel, Regional and Language Options, Languages, Details,
Setings it shows "Default input language: English (United States) - US;
Installed sevices: EN English (United States), Keyboard US"
In My Computer, Properties, Hardware, Device Manager, Keyboards it shows
again "Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard"
I'm no computer whizz and the above are all the places I know to look for
information on the keyboard setup. There may be others of which I do not
know.
-- 
Xakero

 -- 
I use a 102-key keyboard, probably identical to yours.
I use Win 98 OS. I have selected English as my default language, and
in the section of Control Panel where you are given various options
for keyboards (US 101 key, US Dvorak, US International), I have
selected "US International" keyboard layout. The vast majority of
people in the US use the "US" (sometimes called "US 101" or
"Standard" keyboard), which is the default keyboard, and have
no idea of the advantages of the "US International" keyboard,
because they rarely, if ever, have to type an accent. The ease of
use and the many extra easily accessible characters make it
much more useful than the "US" (Standard) keyboard layout for
anyone who has to type аимтщ бйнуъэ вкофы длпцья с з Ў ї many
times each day. There is no need to learn useless ASCII codes,
or continually switch keyboards. The only time I switch keyboards is
to type in Russian.
All it takes is one extra keystroke, and it is very intuitive.
I personally would be lost without the "US International" keyboard.
There many advantages to using this keyboard, and only one
disadvantage, which is really just a minor inconvenience.
There are five "dead" keys:
` (grave accent),
' (acute accent or apostrophe)
^ (circumflex accent, or caret), and
" (quotation mark).
~ (tilde)
In order to produce any of аимтщАИМТЩ, I must first hit the ` (grave
accent) key, followed by any of aeiouAEIOU.
The same goes for бйнуъэБЙНУЪЭзЗ. I must first hit the ' (acute
accent, or apostrophe) followed by any of aeiouyAEIOUYcC.
It is the same for вкофыВКОФЫ. Hit the ^ (circumflex) key, followed by
any of aeiouAEIOU.
And for  "umlauts" длпцьяДЛПЦЬY, first hit the " (quote) key, followed
by any of aeiouyAEIOUY.
хХсС are produced by hitting ~ (tilde) followed by oOnN.
Ў ї Ђ (euro) І і  µ are produced by holding down the Right Alt (also
know as the AltGr) key, while pressing ! ? 5 2 3  or m, although
many people see the euro symbol as ? in their email and newsgroups.
Most characters found on other keyboards, such as
Ч  ч  №  ј Ѕ ѕ   Ґ  ¤ Ј ў  ®   ©   ¶ °  § ж  Я can be accessed
through either the AltGr key or the combination of the AltGr
key and the shift key, followed by a character, but only some
of them are intuitive. Those used all the time would easily
be remembered.
The one disadvantage, or minor inconvenience, is that if I want to
type the actual character on one of the "dead" keys ` ' ^ " ~,
I must follow the character with a "Space".
These are some links about XP and the US International keyboard.
http://www.udel.edu/fllt/mediactr/xpkey.html
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;306560&sd=tech
You would probably need the XP CD to make any changes.
The US International keyboard does not change any of your options,
it only adds to them. On the Microsoft page you will see the many
additional characters which are easily accessible, but the selection
of keys for accessing them is not necessarily intuitive.
I guarantee that if you try it, you'll like it!
It's the difference between McDonalds and a luau. Or maybe
you were disappointed by those luaus?  :>)
Joe from Massachusetts

 Installed sevices: EN English (United States), Keyboard US"
That's fine for writing in English. Now, if you want to write easily in
Italian, you can setup another keyboard configuration. Then you can switch
between the two with a simple Left-Alt + Shift or another key sequence that
you specify.
In that same Control Panel selection, Regional and Language Options, choose
"languages." Then click on "details." You will see your installed services
which should be EN English (United States), and Keyboard: US. Click on the
"Add" button and install another service with IT Italian (Italy) as the
language, and Keyboard: United States-International.
You can switch between the two keyboard services using the keystrokes 
defined through the "Key Settings" preference button -- the default is 
Left-Alt + Shift. You can make the indicator for your choice of keyboard 
service appear in your task bar, through the use of the preferences button 
"Language Bar". When IT is selected, to type an é, first type ' and then e. 
To type an à, first type ` and then a. To make the accent key appear by 
itself without a letter, just strike the accent key twice. Other letter 
symbols are available with other key combinations.

 selected "US International" keyboard layout. 
Thank you! You've made my day!
You don't know how many hours I've already spent looking for that
particular function, because I always felt that it had to be there. The
trouble is, with every new version of Windows things get buried ever deeper
in the control panel. Clever are those who, like you, stayed with a true
and tested older version.
Anyway, your detailed guide gave me new courage and now it's set up. Why my
setting was, apparently by default, US Dvorak, heaven knows.
-- 
Xakero

 setting was, apparently by default, US Dvorak, heaven knows.
Correction. The default setting was "US". "US Dvorak" was the line that was
highlighted after opening the dropdown list.
The keys for apostrophe and quotation marks function differently when
followed by a vowel, now that "US International" is my default, and
therefore I an now going to activate "US" as the default and "US
International" as the alternative to switch to as needed.
-- 
Xakero

 don't know whether it's still common, because "piano" is the usual word.
Apart the alien usage in loanwords, there was a time when the acute accent
was used in English to show that an "e" (especially if word-final) had to
be pronounced, as opposed to being mute. Hence, "absorbéd", "maybé",
"Niké", "pianoforté", etc.
For the same purpose, also a dieresis was commonly used. A relic of this
usage remains in the spelling of the Italian-derived surname of the Brontë
sisters.
Nowadays the dieresis is only seldomly used in overpedantic spellings such
as "coöperative" or "reënforce, to show that "oo" and "ee" should be read
as a pair of adjacent vowels, and not as the digraphs in "book" or "sheep".


 wrote in message
news:3iqpkeF...@individual.net...

The only thing worse than having the Dvorak keyboard as default
would be to have the Dvorak left-handed keyboard as default. :>)
Either you have something wrong with your setup, or you find the
use of "dead" keys disconcerting.
Perhaps the fact that nothing appears on the screen when you hit
just a dead key is what bothers you.
I think all of the European keyboards use dead keys, so why should
we be any different?      :>).
It is in normal typing, when an accent is undesired, that the dead
keys can take a little getting used to, especially the
apostrophe/quote key, since it is used in normal punctuation.
If I want tthe following sentence to appear on the screen:
"I say 'ivy', she says 'oivy'",
I have to actually hit the following KEY sequence, where "space" means
an "extra" space is required;
"spaceI say 'spaceivy', she says 'spaceoivy'".
but this is NOT what appears on the screen.
If I don't type the required extra spaces, the actual KEY sequence is;
"I say 'ivy', she says 'oivy'".
but this is NOT what appears on the screen.
What appears on the screen without the extra spaces is;
Ī say ívy'; she says ķivy'".
with undesired accents on the vowels i and o.
Personally, I see no reason to ever switch from the "International"
keyboard back to the "Standard" keyboard.
Joe from Massachusetts.

 I guarantee that if you try it, you'll like it!
...
I tried the US International *logical* keyboard, it's called @Americano
internazionale@ in Win Xp Italian version. 
I use a physical Italian keyboard so diacritic signs are not where they are
supposed to be on a US International keyboard, but one can find out where
they actually are, by trying all keys!... or with the help of the picture
on this web page
http://www.zisman.ca/keyboard/
 
http://www.zisman.ca/keyboard/Int_keybd.gif
Then, I tried and followed Joscurtin's drift to get all kinds of accented
vowels on a (logica) US International keyboard.
Here is what I actually got:
' single quote ('à' on the phisical Italian keyboard) AND THEN 'a' gives
'á' acute accent
` apostrophe (\) AND THEN 'a' GIVES 'à' grave accent
^ (shift6) AND THEN 'a' GIVES 'â' circumflex
" (AltGr à)  AND THEN 'a' then 'a' GIVES 'ä' Umlaut
~ (shift \, i.e. |) AND THEN 'a'  GIVES 'ã'  tilde
' single quote AND THEN 'c' gives 'ç' cedilla
Accordingly, you can get 'ö', 'Á', 'Ô', 'Ë', 'ñ', 'ý', 'Ñ' and so on...
Btw, as joscurtin said, you can get many other special symbols by using the
AltGr (Right Alt) or Shift keys together with the normal keys...
 
AltGr 'a' gives 'á', AltGr Q gives 'ä', and AltGr Z gives 'æ'.
AltGr Shift Q gives 'Ä' and AltGr Shift Z gives 'Æ'. 
Here is all what you can get...
AltGr and the alphabet>
plain> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
AltGr> á ©ðé   í  øµñóöä®ßþú å üæ
with shift
plain> ABCDEFHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
AltGr> Á ©ÐÉ   Í  ØµÑÓÖÄ®ßÞÚÅ ÜÆ
AltGr and numbers>
plain      > 1234567890
AltGr      > ¡²³¤€¼½¾‘’
Shift      > !@#$%^&*()
AltGr Shift> ¹  £     
 
AltGr and other symbols (from the upper left corner to the lower right
corner of the keyboard)...
 
Plain> `-=[];'\,./   Shift> ~_+{}:"|<>?  AltGr> ¥×«»¶´¬ç¿÷°¨¦Ç   AltGr
Shift> ÷°¨¦Ç
Here are some pictures that make it easier!
http://www.csus.edu/fl/keyboard.html
United States-International Keyboard In Normal State
http://www.csus.edu/fl/Keybd1.gif
United States-International Keyboard Using the RIGHT Alt Key
http://www.csus.edu/fl/USKeybd3-1.gif
United States-International Keyboard In Shift State
http://www.csus.edu/fl/Keybd2.gif
United States-International Keyboard Using SHIFT + RIGHT Alt Key
http://www.csus.edu/fl/USKeybd3-2.gif
HIH
[Unicode Message / Messaggio Unicode]

 AltGr> á ©ðé   í  øµñóöä®ßþú å üæ
Better to be viewed in your newsreader with a monospaced font, so you can
see which symbol relates to which.


> Here are some that have retained the accented characters: 
Today I saw "übergeek" in an Observer headline.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1548775,00.html
(The article is about the new fashionability of so-called geeks, using the
example of the inventors of Skype)
I've seen "über" before, as a prefix in other words, used as a synonym for
"super". It doesn't seem to have made it into the dictionaries yet, though.
-- 
Xakero

 I've seen "über" before, as a prefix in other words
it's a kraut word
-- 
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose
(Janis Joplin)
14/08/2005 11.17.39

Giò
How do you expect me to grow, if you don't let me blow?
(Rachel a Ross, Friends 2x19)

 it's a kraut word
Tsk tsk!
-- 
Xakero

 Tsk tsk!
Do you prefer würstel words?
-- 
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose
(Janis Joplin)
14/08/2005 12.48.16


In English "Übermensch" is usually translated as "Superman". I have
never heard "Overman".
Joe from Massachusetts

never heard "Overman".
that tranlation I made it up, on the spot.
I thought that Superman was Christopher Reeve...therefore...not to be
mistaken...
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