Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: plurale francesismi

Salve a tutti.
Chiedo il vostro consiglio su un mio dubbio:
qual'č, in inglese, la regola per il plurale delle espressioni "straniere" 
(francesismi, nel mio caso): prendono la flessione del plurale anche 
all'interno di un testo inglese o vengono considerati singolare come succede 
in italiano con gli anglicismi, francesismi e similari?
Grazie a tutti
Elle 



Di solito prendono il plurale con la esse, ma a volte mantengono la forma
originale, anche se la variante con la esse č spesso accettata. 
In inglese, per esempio, si dice "one zucchini" e "two zucchinis" oppure
"two zucchini". Non si dice "one zucchino".
Parole di origine latina a volte mantengono i plurali latini. One
millennium, two millennia. Anche qui "millenniums" č accettato.
Ecco qualche import dal francese:
brioche			brioches
praline			pralines
lagniappe		lagniappes
boulevard		boulevards
bureau			bureaus
levee			levees
bayou			bayous
picayune		picayunes
bateau			bateaux
Fondamentalmente dipenda da quanto tempo il termine č entrato nell'uso
comune. Piů passa il tempo e piů si standardizza.
Sebastiano

 "two zucchini". Non si dice "one zucchino".
E' vero!
I'd like to have one panini, please!
:-))))))))))))))))))
Tschüss,
Enrico il Pentolaio. 

Giò
How do you expect me to grow, if you don't let me blow?
(Rachel a Ross, Friends 2x19)

I'd like to have one panini, please!
pepperoni (though never heard used in a non plural sense)
I don't why, but it has developed even another "p"...


 :-))))))))))))))))))
:)
one panino, two panini, three panini, four. :)
And what about spaghetti with pepperoncinis? :)
Sebastiano

 I don't why, but it has developed even another "p"...
Just like pepper.
Sebastiano

 riporta anche phenomenonS
Il Webster riporta phenomenos perché, come dicevo, l'uso del plurale
standard è ormai accettato in molte parole di derivazione straniera.
Sebastiano

standard è ormai accettato in molte parole di derivazione straniera.
Se non ricordo male una volta era bonus/boni ora e' solo
bonus/bonuses.
'bye

Just like pepper.
yes, but here it's "pepe", note "peppe". :-)


 yes, but here it's "pepe", note "peppe". :-)
And here it's a vegetable, while in the Us it's a hot salami. That's a
bigger difference, don't you think? :)
And in English it's pepper, which means "pepe" and "peperone". A sweet
pepper is what we call "peperone", "a hot/chili pepper" is what we call
"peperoncino" and "pepper" is what we call "pepe".
Sebastiano

 "peperoncino" and "pepper" is what we call "pepe".
Seems quite versatile. I wonder if a "4-wheeled pepper" is a car.
Bye, FB
-- 
"Qualcuno, meglio se un fidanzato, dovrebbe comunicare a Xxxxxxx Xxxxx che
scrivere libri non fa per lei. Per il suo bene (e il nostro, soprattutto)."
(Recensione di Antonio D'Orrico sul Corriere della Sera Magazine)

 bonus/bonuses.
Può essere, io ho sempre sentito "bonuses". Il webster non riporta "boni",
ma ha senso che, nel passato, fosse accettata anche tale forma. Ora non
saprei. Forse qualche "dotto" usa "boni" in qualche scritto, non saprei.
Madreliiiingueeeeeeee! Qualcuno dice/scrive "boni" al posto di "bonuses"?
Sebastiano

 saprei. Forse qualche "dotto" usa "boni" in qualche scritto, non saprei.
Costanzo. Dotto? Bah...
Ciao, FB
-- 
Just as I thought. Another test that could have cost us our lives, saved
only by the fact that I am enormously well-bred.
(Murder by Death)

 Madreliiiingueeeeeeee! Qualcuno dice/scrive "boni" al posto di "bonuses"?
Yes, there are several categories of people who say 'boni'.
1. People with a personality impairment that forces them to bark Latin words
in the middle of English sentences (somewhat like coprolalia, or latinolalia
in this case).
2. People with emotionally arrested development who incessantly imitate
characters portrayed by Mike Meyers in Saturday Night Live skits.
3. People preoccupied with quiz contests.
4. People who defiantly defend using obscure plural utterances in
desperate attempts to convince themselves that they really are more
intelligent than their mamas believe they are.
Having said that, I should add that nobody I personally know says it. I'm
picky whom I choose for friends.

"peperoncino" and "pepper" is what we call "pepe".
when in Rome, do as the Romans.
When in US, eat whatever the eat (pancakes?)


 wrote in message
news:1cw45udx17y29.sf6srgqid4c6$.dlg@40tude.net...

Pepperoncini are not "chili" peppers.
There are a great variety of peppers in the US, and pepperoncini
is one variety. They are not really "hot" peppers, although they
do have a very piquant taste. They are too mild to be considered
"hot" peppers. "Hot", or "chili" peppers are a staple of Mexican
cuisine. The "Scoville" scale was developed to rate the "hotness"
of hot peppers. The hot peppers most familiar to Americans are the
cayenne, jalapeño, serrano, tabasco, and the red-hot habanero.
One of the hottest chilis is the Fresno chili from California.
"Chili" peppers are used to make hot sauces.
If you go to a real Mexican restaurant, or if you eat at the home of
a Mexican friend, you will always be asked whether you want "red"
or "green" salsa on your food, and you will be warned to taste it
beforehand, to make sure it is not too hot for your taste. The red
sauce is "milder" than the green sauce, but it is still extremely hot.
The most common use for pepperoncini is in salads, and in sandwiches.
The pepperoncini ranks at the bottom of the "heat scale" used to
rate the "heat" of peppers.
Putting the pepperoncini in the same class as the jalapeño is like
putting San Pellegrino in the same class as Grappa.
Take a look at the Scoville ratings, and note the lowly position
of the pepperoncini.
http://www.fiery-foods.com/dave/heat.html
Joe from Massachusetts


http://www.fiery-foods.com/dave/heat.html
Too thorough for me. (for us italian?). Your proximity with Mexico and
you having these as native plants, does give you a more detail
knowledge, in the matter.
I think I feel the same way you'd felt if I'd tell you about (very)
different varieties of pecorino cheese.
Bye, thank you for the explanation, though. At least for as far as
I've managed to follow.



The difference is that a cheese can't cause you physical discomfort,
or even harm, unless you happen to be allergic.
I just wouldn't want an Italian to be endangered by thinking that
because he can eat pepperoncini like popcorn, he can do the
same with chilis. The habanero chilis are so hot that some products
containing them can't be sold without the purchaser first signing
a disclaimer, to free the distributor from any liability.
«Due to the extremely hot nature of this product, I agree that they
shall only be used as a food additive. These products can cause
serious injury if directly consumed, ingested and/or applied to the
skin, eyes, or any other bodily organs.»
http://www.chilliworld.com/Sauce_Additive_Disclaimer.asp?oid=&FPC=NO
Joe from Massachusetts


If I should ever hear someone use "boni" this way, it would evoke
peals of laughter.
The only dictionary I have ever seen it in was the Latin dictionary.
Having said all that, here's an example of someone who uses it.
:>(
http://pennbowl.tripod.com/pb11packetsprinter.html
Joe from Massachusetts

Giň


 knowledge, in the matter.
I'm not sure if the term 'peperoncino' in Italian is equivalent to the term
'chili pepper' in English, or if the meaning is more generic to describe all
varieties of peppers different than peperone (In English, bell pepper).
However, the word 'pepperoncini', similar as it may appear, has a distinct
and different meaning in the US that has permeated the culture, thanks to 
the magic of marketing. It is a jarred product sold in supermarkets. 
Typically, it's a mild pepper marinated in vinegar (I don't know the variety 
of pepper), light green in color, and the length of an adult's thumb. You 
find it in salads, or at times as a garnish on the side of the plate next to 
a hamburger. Many americans will leave this garnish untouched, perhaps 
because of the strong flavor (due more to the vinegar than the spiciness).
http://www.victoriapacking.com/pepcini.html


http://www.victoriapacking.com/pepcini.html
definetely a peperone. a kind of peperone. the conical (pyramidal with
polygonal base :-) ) yellow/green one.
of course we (I?) do not use to eat it in jar, under vinegar. 
in olive oil, let's say, of course. cut in slices, in strips, in jars.


 When in US, eat whatever the eat (pancakes?)
And waffles. And steaks. And hot-dogs. Nathan's. And muffins... and
chocolate cookies. And BLT. And, in NY and in many other big cities, all
the food of the world. Afgan meatballs and Chianti. That's something you
can eat at the Kabul cafe. And Szechuan cuisine. Goood. Noodles! And Japan!
Teriyaki chicken bowl! And ravioli! With spinaci! Prosciutto and
mozzarella! Buffalo mozzarella! Mmm.
I guess I'll have breakfast this morning...
Sebastiano

 in olive oil, let's say, of course. cut in slices, in strips, in jars.
But you do eat  giardiniera or vegetables sotto aceto? That's how these
pepperoncini are prepared. Not to be critical, but just to contribute to
your ongoing improvement, one says 'we are/I am not used to eating them 
jarred in vinegar'.

 of the pepperoncini.
I see. Do you know the species?
I thought it was annuum because of this:
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/81516/
The cultivar name is "Golden Creek Pepperoncini"
Sebastiano

 Too thorough for me. (for us italian?).
Nope. I knew all about that (not the pepperoncini thing, though).
Take a look at this: 
www.peperoncino.org
 :)
I am not alone. :D
Sebastiano

 Costanzo. Dotto? Bah...
ROTFL.
Sebastiano

 picky whom I choose for friends.
Then I guess it's because the word "bonus" came into the English language
some centuries ago. I think. :)
Sebastiano

 
http://pennbowl.tripod.com/pb11packetsprinter.html
L'eccezione (l'eccentrico) che conferma la regola. :)
Sebastiano

 But you do eat  giardiniera or vegetables sotto aceto?
Sě, ma non peperoncini. O almeno non li ho mai visti. Sott'olio, sě, ma
sott'aceto non li ho mai visti. Questo non significa niente, comunque. Non
avevo nemmeno mai sentito parlare della 'nduja, prima di andare in
Calabria, e se mi avessero parlato di salame piccante da spalmare avrei
fatto facce strane. :)
Sebastiano

>>>Just like pepper.
When a dose of peperoni enters your body, many things may happen, many new
life forms may develop and nobody is safe. The second P stands for
PERICOLO(N)
-- 
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose
(Janis Joplin)
17/08/2005 8.29.46

 varieties of peppers different than peperone (In English, bell pepper).
you got it.
Ciao,
 Luigi

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 19:47:05 -0400, joscurtin wrote in
<news:p9vMe.600$5U2.285@lakeread07> on it.cultura.linguistica.inglese :

But are the "pepperoncini" you are talking about the same thing as Italian
"peperoncini"? "Peperoncini" are hot, and they are used, dry, as a spice,
often in a sauce.
http://www.greciasalentina.org/L_Images/peperoncino.jpg
-- 
Enrico C
...still legal tender...

saprei. Forse qualche "dotto" usa "boni" in qualche scritto, non saprei.
L'avevo letto molti anni fa in un libro, cercando sul dizionario (non
ricordo quale visto che e' passato ormai troppo tempo) avevo trovato
un semplice: vedi bonus (in cui il plurale era poi definito come
bonuses e non boni).
Di recente, l'unica apparizione di boni che ho visto era in un
messaggio di un forum di un MUD da cui e' risultata una mega flame war
con finale distruzione di chi aveva usato "boni" nel messaggio :-)
'bye

picky whom I choose for friends.
LOL! 
'bye


No, you are not alone. 
A shameless plug:
If you are *really* interested in peperoncini, please visit:
http://www.virtualpepper.org/
We grow hot peppers, share information and seeds. There are forums in
Italian and English, a database of peppers,where we are attempting to
catalog Italian peppers. It is a worldwide community, but based in
Italy,  where we help budding "peperoncinari" with any expertise that
we might be able to give. We offer seeds for free, and answer any
questions you might have. 

Per dirimere ogni dubbio:
In Italiano:
Peperone = 
http://www.torinoscienza.it/img/200x200/it/s00/00/0006/000006a3.png
http://www.racine.ra.it/russi/webscuola/alimamer/images/PEPER1.jpg
http://www.asgrow.it/images/Notizie/0011/peperone-Lucent_b.jpg
http://www.art-courses-italy.com/italian-watercolour-course/peperone-giallo.jpg
Peperoncino = 
http://www.discoveritalia.it/images/content/schede/752.jpg
http://www.greciasalentina.org/L_Images/peperoncino.jpg
http://www.zeusnews.it/immagini/003517-peperoncino.jpg
http://www.ilpassaporto.kataweb.it/kpm2miscx/field/foto/fotoquotidiano/26975
http://www.classic.com.au/wizard/Peperoncino_hp.jpg
-- 
I'm a Dream!!! 


There seems to be a little confusion in Italy about what a
"peperoncini" is. This is a list of "peperoncini", or hot peppers, but
on the list a mild variety of "peperoncini", known as the
"peperoncini"(?) , is listed.  It is this mild "peperoncini", which is
the equivalent of the US "pepperoncini".
http://www.peperoncino.org/varieta.htm
Joe from Massachusetts

 questions you might have.
Very useful! I'll give it a try.
Sebastiano