Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Parlando di banche

Il mio secondo componimento è una lettera di lamentele ad una banca
per problemi con la mia carta di credito che non funziona, né per
prelevare agli sportelli bancomat, né per comprare.
Ho qualche dubbio su un paio di forme.
The pin code to withdraw cash is probably wrong and the card does not
work as a credit one, nor as a debit one.
Quello che volevo dire è:
Il codice pin per prelevare contante è probabilmente sbagliato e la
carta non funziona né come carta di credito né come carta di debito.
Le mie indecisioni riguardano l'uso di one al posto di card, per
evitare di ripetere la parola.
the card does not work as a credit card, nor as a debit card.
E anche l'uso di as dopo work.
Altri dubbi, in un altra frase:
I had to pay in cash and, of course, I ran out of it and so I have
tried 30 different ATM machines all over Manhattan. 
"ran out" lo posso usare o è gergale o comunque troppo informale?
Non mi piace "I have tried". Io voglio dire "sono stato costretto a"
Andrebbe bene:
"and so I had to try 30 different ATM..."?
Una serie di parole  e espressioni che non ho usato ma che mi sono
venute in mente e non so come si dicano in inglese:
"fare una carta di credito". Tipo, "vado in banca a fare la CdC". Che
verbo devo usare?
"strisciata". Ovvero la passata che si fa con la carta di credito o il
bancomat in un negozio. Non credo sia italiano corretto, ma nel gergo
è diffuso.
"pagobancomat". Mi spiego meglio. Per dire "la carta non funziona né
per  prelevare né per pagare" è corretto "the card does not work to
withdraw (cash), nor to pay.
Cash lo devo mettere?
to pay, così semplicemente, funziona?
Ultimo dubbio:
In view of the fact that the problem is due to you, I think it is my
right to be paid back in case I have to open an account here.
Lo uso correttamente "due"?
Ho usato "I think it is my right to be payd back" perché non saprei
come rendere "mi aspetto di essere risarcito nel caso che..."
Devo dire che una lettera del genere (sempre 250 parole) mi ha messo
in seria difficoltà. Anche in italiano il dover scrivere ad una banca
mi troverebbe impacciato. Sicuramente meno che in inglese :)
Sebastiano
--
RACHEL:Who's FICA? Why's he getting all my money?

 withdraw (cash), nor to pay.
"I can use my card neither to withdraw cash nor to pay for purchases
at card terminals"
If you cannot use your card to pay in shops using credit card
vouchers, then something is wrong with the card's magnetic strip, not
with your PIN code.
Now a general consideration. If you have ever applied for and received
a credit card with a PIN code, you will have read in the covering
letter you received with the PIN code that you should immediately
change the PIN code at an ATM. Therefore, if you did as requested and
if the PIN code you received from the bank did not work, you tried
three times to enter the PIN code at an ATM, after which the card was
retained by the ATM.
The way you write your letter depends on your answers to these
questions.
---
Xakero

 
E' meglio la repetizione:
the card does not work, either as a credit card or as a debit card.
or:
the card works neither as a credit card nor as a debit card.
-- 
Mary

 have to enter your PIN code.
per precisione: una debit card e' una ATM card che puo' "girare" anche in
un circuito credit card (Visa, Mastercard, etc). Negli Stati Uniti, ma
potrei fare la stessa cosa in Italia(se il negozio, per esempio, accetta
sia ATM card che credit card), posso scegliere se usarla come ATM card
digitando il PIN number su apposita tastierina, oppure come credit card
firmando lo slip.
La stessa cosa si puo' fare nei distributori di carburante automatici o al
supermercato.
E' chiaro che non si tratta di "vera" credit card, la banca non concede,
nel caso di debit card, una linea di credito, ma preleva piu' o meno
automaticamente dal conto corrente.
ciao,
alessandro

 with your PIN code.
Si, forse, ma se chiede il PIN code, probabilmente la striscia funziona.

retained by the ATM.
Whoa! Ok. The point was the language, more than the context.
If we talk about the context I would probaly have to wrote the letter
in Italian since my bank is Italian.
The situation I wrote about is quite stupid. I would never use 30 ATM
machines to be sure the card is not working. And it is possible to
change the pin. An if the card do not work in the card terminals the
problem is due tu the magnetic strip, as you said.
But I think I am going to re-wrote it :)


 mi troverebbe impacciato. Sicuramente meno che in inglese :)
I burocrati meschini sono peggio in italia. C'è più speranza da scrivere una
lettera con errori alla banca negli Stati Uniti che una lettera perfetta alla
banca in Italia.

 banca in Italia.
Beh, scrivo peggio, ma loro sono peggiori.

 But I think I am going to _re-wrote_ (rewrite) it :)
Is all of this just happening in your imagination or do you really have a
problem?

 No, ci sono, e si può scegliere
Not so.
If it is a debit card, every purchase you make with the card is debited
immediately to your bank account.
If it is a credit card, the total of the monthly statement is debited at one
time to your bank account, if you have authorized the automatic debit to
your account. In other words, you have credit from the date of each purchase
until the date of the monthly debit to your account. Without automatic debit
to your account, your receive a monthly statement and proceed to pay the
amount due in a suitable manner. Depending on your contract with the card
issuer, you may opt to pay only part of the total shown on the statement,
which would then involve finance charges (interest) on the balance.
QUOTE
Some cards with Visa and MasterCard symbols are not credit cards and will
have payments deducted directly from your checking account. These are debit
cards. Under federal law, you do not have the right to "charge back" problem
purchases to a debit card as you do with a conventional credit card. Also,
if a debit card is lost or stolen, you can have unlimited liability for
losses if you do not report the problem within 60 days, which is different
from the $50 maximum liability on credit cards.
UNQUOTE
Source: 
http://www.state.ma.us/consumer/Pubs/credsecr.htm
A card is either one type or the other. There is absolutely no way that when
using the card you can choose that for one purchase it shall be used as a
debit card (immediate debit to your account) or as a credit card (debit once
a month for all purchases during the preceding month)
Obviously, you are confusing it with something else, perhaps with the manner
in which the card is read.
---
Xakero

 
I'm afraid you're wrong; these dual cards do exist in Italy; I have one
myself.
When you make a purchase, the shop assistant asks you whether you want
to use it as a credit card or a debit card (Bancomat).
You're not asked to sign anything when you use your debit card in Italy;
you enter your PIN number on a keypad. This system was unknown last time
I was in the UK; I always had to sign there.
-- 
Mary

 In Italian it is "fare la carta di credito".
Now you have me confused even more. If you write to your bank to complain
that the PIN code you received from them does not work with your credit
card, then obviously you have a card, don't you? And because it doesn't
work, you want it replaced.
And how would opening a bank account in NY help?
Where is the bank to which you want to complain about the problem with your
credit card?
---
Xakero

 wrote in message
news:3DEE5898...@nospam.it...

Did you look carefully at your credit card statement?
I have a Visa credit card, issued by a bank in Thailand. I used it to
withdraw cash from an ATM at Heathrow airport, with a card terminal (where I
had to insert my PIN code) in a Geneva supermarket, and at a hotel in
Germany (where the card was swiped through a card reader and I was given a
paper to sign). All three transactions were listed on the monthly statement
and the statement's total amount was debited at one time to my account,
based on my authorisation for automatic debit.
Granted, things may be different in Italy, but how will the shop assistant
communicate to the card issuer that the purchase should be debited to the
card holders account immediately or alternatively be put on his monthly
statement? I just can't see it. Unless, of course, the shop has two
different card readers, one for credit cards and one for debit cards,
something I have never seen, but then I have never held and used an Italian
credit card.
---
Xakero

 problem?
From Sebapop's initial post I gather it's a homework assignment for his
English class.
---
Xakero

 different card readers, one for credit cards and one for debit cards,
I just remembered, I have seen, somewhere in Europe, card readers in petrol
stations that read both types of cards, credit cards and debit cards. But
they do not give one the choice of using one's credit card as a debit card
(immediate debit to the card holder's account), and why anybody in his right
mind should want to choose that second option, if it were available, is
beyond me.
The acronym for this type of card reader is EFTPOS, which I believe stands
for Electronic Fund Transfer at Point of Sale.
---
Xakero

 I was in the UK; I always had to sign there.
To the best of my knowledge, debit cards -- with their instantaneous money
transfer when used -- can be used only in the card issuer's country.
I guess also the US banking system is not yet that far advanced. Can you
imagine, in that country they still pay with cheques at the supermarket?
Likewise in Britain, it would seem.
---
Xakero

 times in one million of different ATM machines nothing happens
Are you sure about that? It would severely reduce the usefulness of that
safety feature.
I am tempted to go and try it with my credit card, but I cannot do without
it at the moment in case it gets swallowed by an ATM.
---
Xakero
P.S. "ATM machine" = automated teller machine machine (which probably is not
what you wanted to say)

 beyond me.
I suppose one (me myself and I :-) has to choose this second option if:
1- se ha raggiunto la cifra limite coperta dalla carta di credito (plafond)
per il periodo, di solito mensile, ma può sempre usare la carta nella sua
funzionalità bancomat-prelievo immediato dal conto.
2 - se vuole evitare di pagare determinate commissioni aggiuntive, per
esempio pagando con la carta di credito alle stazioni di rifornimento.
...
Excuse me for not replying in english, but my technical english is rather
rusty...
Bye
Giorgia
--------------------------------
Inviato via 
http://usenet.libero.it

 immediately to your bank account.
Yes, so. I have one in the United States. Used as a debit card the payment is
deducted from my account, and used as a credit card I receive a bank statement
to be paid with a 30-day grace period.

 transfer when used -- can be used only in the card issuer's country.
Yes.
You can use the card just as a credit card, when you are abroad.


problem?
I am sorry. It's a essay I have to do for my English cass :)


English class.
You got it. Next time I know I have to make myself more clear :)


credit card?
Well, in Italy. Don't ask me why I do have to write to them in
English, I have already asked him ;).


what you wanted to say)
Not at all. Thanks for everything.
Sebastiano/whose English is turning abysmal...


 rusty...
Va bene, leggo l'italiano abbastanza bene, ma esito ancora a scriverlo in
questo newsgroup. Inoltre, mi manca uno spell checker italiano per Word XP.
---
Xakero

 You can use the card just as a credit card, when you are abroad.
I have a debit card, too, a debit card in the true sense, and I have never
been able to use it outside the issuing country as a credit card.
Perhaps you are talking about one of those Italian combination credit/debit
cards (which are still a mystery to me)
---.
Xakero

 to be paid with a 30-day grace period.
I eat humble pie.
So it exists, in some parts of the world, and I was wrong in my assumption.
---
Xakero

 >So, for the record, you do have a credit card?
" to apply for a credit card"
"here" being the USA, I presume. It's the same just about anywhere else.
My ATM card also serves as a debit card in shops accepting debit cards, but
I cannot use it as a credit card, neither in the card issuer's country nor
abroad.
Once you've drafted your letter (homework assignment), why not post it here?
A hoard of people will gladly review it and suggest changes, if required.
---
Xakero

 English, I have already asked him ;).
If you got the assignment in English, why not post it here, for  a clearer
understanding? Together with your draft of the letter.
At the moment I understand that the fictional letter you have to write, as a
homework assignment, is based on the following premises:
- Your bank sent you a credit card and a PIN code. (Capitalise PIN, as it is
an acronym)
- The PIN does not work and you have so far not been able to use the card,
neither to pay with it in places where the PIN is required, not to withdraw
cash from an ATM.
- Your bank account is in Italy, you are in New York. Therefore, you cannot
simply walk into your bank to withdraw cash.
- Having run out of cash, you need immediately a valid PIN for your credit
card or an immediate replacement of your card plus a valid PIN for the new
card. Should your bank not be able to do so, you will have to open an
account with a bank in New York in order to effect a wire transfer from your
Italian bank account to your New York bank account. Opening an account in
New York and making a wire transfer will incur certain bank charges and fees
and you want your Italian bank to confirm that it will refund you all
expenses in this connection, as the wrong PIN was the fault of your Italian
bank.
Have I got it right?
---
Xakero

 time? "to do a credit card"? "to receive a cc? "to make a cc"?
If you ask for an ATM card, also called a debit card, it is *issued* to you
along with your account. For a CC as you put it, credit card to be exact, you
must apply for it. A *check* is done on your credit history and when you are
*approved*  for the credit card account a card is *issued* in your name. Do not
confuse a credit card with a debit card although there are some banks that issue
a card that can be used in either capacity. In gas stations in the US, after you
*swipe* the card through the slot, you will be asked to choose the type of
*transaction*, debit card or credit card.
The verb *issued* is somewhat formal. You might walk into a bank and say 'I'd
like a credit card', 'I'd like to get a credit card', or 'I'd like to apply for
a credit card'.

 understanding? Together with your draft of the letter.
I meant "if you got your assignment in writing"
---
Xakero

 Likewise in Britain, it would seem.
No, I have an Italian credit/debit card and a British debit card which I
use when I'm in the UK.
I don't think many people still pay by cheque at the supermarket there;
however, when you pay by debit card you have to sign a receipt instead
of keying in your PIN.
-- 
Mary

Have I got it right?
You have it right. :)
Btw, I didn't post the whole letter becouse I have already done that
with my last essay and I didn't want to bother the NG again, except
for the "few" doubts I had.
Well, wrong choice. I caused more confusion with my unlinked questions
then what I would have caused posting the letter :) [Why do I keep
using sentences with structures I am not fully aware of? I am a
doubt-maker!]
That's the letter, the essay is an "up to 250 words" one.
To Whom It May Concern
I am Name Surname, account number XXXXX, and I have a problem
regarding the credit card you gave me on yy/yy/yyyy. The PIN code to
withdraw cash is wrong and the card works neither as a credit card nor
as a debit card.
I am here in New York and I have been shopping in 12 different shops
and nowhere the card worked properly. I had to pay in cash and, of
course, I ran out of it and so I have tried 30 different ATMs all over
Manhattan. Half of the machines did not accepted the PIN code and the
other half did not even recognized the credit card as a valid one.
I have borrowed some money from my work colleagues, but I need to be
able to pay with the credit card as soon as possible.
I have been to an American bank and I have been told that there are
only two possibilities: the issuing bank fixes the problem or I open
an account to an American bank and wait for an international money
transfer.
I have enough cash for two days and then I will have to open a new
bank account.
I hope you will find shortly a way to solve my problem. In view of the
fact that the problem is due to you, I think it is my right to be paid
back in case I have to open an account here. 
			Best Regards,
					 Name Surname
What I do not like:
"To whom it may concern".
I read about that it is not correct becouse you have always to know to
whom you are referring to. But I do not know :)
In a formal letter do I have to use 12 -visual and more immediate, or
twelve? [same about 30]
the two possibilities:
La struttura corretta è quella che ho scritto (bla bla bla or blabla
bla ) oppure:
or the issuing bank fixes the problem or I open an account to an
American bank and wait for an international money transfer.
(or blablabla or blablabla).
E "I open" va bene oppure sono costretto a dire "I have to open"?
The more my English gets better, the more my doubts get worse. It's a
vicious circle!


 twelve? [same about 30]
??? Are you talking about paper size? In the USA, it would be 8.5 x 12
inches, I believe. Or  are you talking about font size? Personally, I use
Arial 11 points for letters, 12 points for faxes. Or are you talking abount
something else entirely?
---
Xakero
P.S. You've got to work on those negative verb forms: did not accept, did
not recognize, etc.

 along with your account.
Nope, ATM cards are NOT also called debit cards.
They are two different things. The bank where you have your account gives
you an ATM card.
You can apply also for a debit card (ATM card linked to a circuit) and/or
for a credit card.
Cheers
Fabio
P.S.
Hi all

 credit card.
Are you talking about checking or saving account?
Fabio

not recognize, etc.
Yeah. Don't worry about them. I corrected them just after reading the
whole letter. And I corrected even "an account to an American bank"
with "an account in an American bank". I didn't think about using
"with an".


Are you talking about checking or saving account?
Bho. Non so la differenza tra i due.
E non penso sia un problema. Il punto era fare un componimento in
inglese corretto. Se ho scritto qualche castroneria dal punto di vista
bancario, non credo sia un problema.
In ogni caso, questi due tipi di account, sono presenti nelle banche
italiane (target della lettera)?
And, btw, now I really would like to know the difference between a
checking account and a saving account. :)


 for a credit card.
I have to disagree from direct experience. At every major bank I've encountered,
each card performs both functions. Every ATM card I have ever had (since debit
cards have become popular) has also been a debit card and no application was
required. Since the card is directly tied to your account, and you can only use
funds present in the account, I imagine they don't see the need for a credit
check. The actual name assigned to the card is most appropriately applied
according to the use. If you use the card at an ATM you tend to call it an ATM
card. If you use it at the supermarket you tend to call it a debit card (In fact
the prompts will ask you for that very specification). Perhaps there are some
small, local banks that provide only the ATM function, and that has lead you
think that you need two different cards.

 required.
Should I send you a copy of my USE Credit Union ATM card AND debit card by
e-mail or by fax? ;-)
You might also want to read this:
http://www.westsidecu.org/ASP/Services/service_4.asp
Cheers
Fabio

 checking account and a saving account. :)
Here we go:
http://www.usecu.org/accounts_services/
Cheers
Fabio

 
http://www.westsidecu.org/ASP/Services/service_4.asp
You don't need to send anything, your example just supported what I wrote,
including that some very small banks may offer ATM-only cards. In fact, the
example you suggest is a little auto employees credit union, not even a bank,
and they offer a card just as I describe, that works at an ATM as well as for
debits (just like the big boys). In addition, there is no indication that you
have to "apply" for the ATM/debit card as you suggested. The situation I
described applies to every major bank I have encountered in the US. To relieve
your doubts I suggest that you research the difference between a credit union
and a bank and check the website of any major bank.

 and a bank and check the website of any major bank.
Sorry, but beside my own experience, I know many people with "just" an ATM
card and a credit card.
No matter if the bank is big or small (and my credit union bank is quite
big...), ATM cards are not the same as debit cards. Full stop.
I asked my bank about this difference when I opened my bank account and
decided not to get the debit card.
It's true that the majority gets ATM/debit cards, but this doesn't mean that
they are the same.
I don't have any doubts about it, I tell you what I see.
Lastly, from 
www.cardweb.com
:
"What is the difference between an ATM card and a debit card?
Most ATM cards are debit cards and vice versa. ATM cards access cash only.
Debit cards are used to make purchases at retail locations in the same way
credit cads are used."
Cheers
Fabio

 letter. Do I have to write 12 or twelve? 30 or thirty?
"twelve" and "thirty" looks better in a formal letter.
---
Xakero


If I remember my technical writing course rules, numbers 
from 0 thru 9 are written using the number.  Numbers from 
ten onward are spelled out.
Rick

 credit cads are used."
Debit cards are not used to make purchases at retail 
locations in the same way credit cards are used.
My bank charges 25 cents per transaction for using a debit 
card or using an ATM card as a debit card.  On the other 
hand, using my Visa card at the checkout counter costs me 
nothing extra.  Plus I enjoy the use of someone else's money 
for the period of time between charging to the card and 
paying the Visa bill.  Since there are somewhere around 50 
transactions per month on my Visa bill, and I avoid the 25 
cent charge the debit card would cost me, using my Visa card 
saves me about $10 a month.
Rick

 locations in the same way credit cards are used.
I agree with you. I think they mean from an operational point of view at the
shop level.
Cheers
Fabio

 credit cads are used."
wrong!!!!! ATM cards can be used to make purchases at retail locations whenever
those venues were connected to payments circuits like Nyce, Cirrus, Plus etc.
(on the same token, at those locations you can choose to use a debit card like
a credit card or an ATM card).
Moreover, ATM cards can be used to make purchases *and* withdraw cash from your
account at the same time, in some locations(mainly supermarket chains),
avoiding the annoying additional fee of a typical ATM machine (of course, this
can be done with any debit card used as ATM card).
ciao,
alessandro

 wrong!!!!! ATM cards can be used to make purchases
Read the sentence better.
They are saying that "ATM cards access cash only". I can access my cash at a
grocery store with my ATM card, but I can't use it "to make purchases *in
the same way* credit cards are used".
I think you miss the point.
I'm not saying that ATM/debit cards do not exist.
I'm just saying that ATM cards are not debit cards BY DEFAULT, so they can
be 2 different entities.
As a matter of fact, some banks (major or minor, don't know) provide you ATM
cards without debit card functions (take a look in my wallet).
Anyway, we are going way too off the topic.
Cheers
Fabio

 Anyway, we are going way too off the topic.
and I'm getting confused;-)
ciao,
alessandro

 and I'm getting confused;-)
That is understandable, but it works just as you and I have described. For
example, the charge transaction machines at a large supermarket chainstore offer
the choice of transactions: ATM or Credit. If you look for a button to push that
says "Debit," you will not find it because you must select the ATM button for
debit transactions. Once upon a time there were just ATM cards. Years later the
debit option was introduced. Now, the two functions are not distinguished at
major banks and one card, with one account, is used at ATMs and for debit
purchases, and they are commonly called ATM cards. They do not work like credit
cards and you do not need to apply for credit to receive them, you need only to
open up a checking account.

 mi troverebbe impacciato. Sicuramente meno che in inglese :)


Sebbastiŕ...
[...]
A Cali'... sii gentile e leggi la sezione delle FAQ riguardante il
quoting. Si scrive _sotto_ il messaggio a cui si risponde, e si
_taglia_ impietosamente tutto ciň che, nel messaggio cui si replica,
non serve alla comprensione della risposta. La banda non č tua e non č
gratis. Grazie,
-- 
Isa
Work like you don't need money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no one's watching
http://web.tiscali.it/alfabeto_auschwitz/index.htm

 debit transactions.
When I go to VONS or Ralphs, I see 2 buttons: "debit" and "credit".
Pushing the debit button, I can also withdraw cash.
Cheers
Fabio

t'aspetti risarcimento, lascia stare, 
Don't worry, my credit card works correctly. Well, I am the one that
should be worried: my card works too much ;)
