Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: you and me vs you and I

you and me vs you and I
which was the right one? I 've forgot!!!

 which was the right one? I 've forgot!!!
It depends.
You and I  have red pencils.
He intends to give red pencils to you and me.
When "I" is the subject, then "I" is the natural choice.
When the object is "me", then the choice is to use "me." 

 which was the right one? I 've forgot!!!
 Dipende da che funzione ha nella frase.  Se sono soggetto "you and
I".  Se sono oggetto "you and me"
Ex: You and I are going to LA
      He's taking you and me to LA
E' lo stesso in italiano no?.
Ari

 which was the right one? I 've forgot!!!
Drop 'you and', build your sentence, then add 'you and' again.
Kiuhnm


I meant when you cannot see if it's a nominative or accusative,
"between you and me" or...? 

 "between you and me" or...?
I believe the same rule I mentioned would apply.
Between you and me, He told me that he wouldn't have hired her if he knew
she was so lazy.
The company will distribute the bonus between you and me.
Between you and I, we should be able to accomplish this goal.
I'm not absolutely certain thie examples are correct, but they show how I
would write the sentences. The first example is an idiomatic use of "between
you and me" that implies "I will tell you a secret that should only be
shared between..." The last example is an idiomatic usage that means "you
and I together."
I'm open to entertain other suggestions and explanations.

 Between you and I, we should be able to accomplish this goal.
And *me*.
Prepositions take the object case, as far as I know.
Kiuhnm

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For instance, the Concise Oxford dictionary says:
"Say between you and me, rather than between you and I. A preposition 
such as between takes the object case and is correctly followed by 
object pronouns such as me, him, her, and us rather than subject 
pronouns such as I, he, she, and we. Thus it is right to say between us 
or between him and her and it is clearly wrong to say between we or 
between he and she."
Kiuhnm

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In this case, albiet an idiomatic usage, I contorted the sentence to refer
to the subject, "we". So, I'm not sure that the rule you specify deals with
such an abnormality. I don't think that discussions of these bizarre
exception situations help people learning English, but I played along and
tried to find a situation where "between you and I" could be subjects. In
any case, the general rule you mention is true, and I tried to convey that
very point in my initial response.

 such an abnormality.
<IMHO>
In your sentence "Between you and I" means "together" and it's clearly 
an adverbial (not adjectival) phrase. But that's not the point. "You and 
I" are not alone but are the objects of the preposition "between" and 
any grammar I've consulted states that prepositions want the object case 
(with no exceptions). If you drop "between" then "you and I" are on the 
same level of (or with?) "we", but in your sentence they are clearly 
under "between".
Kiuhnm

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I think that's a fine way for you to look at it. For me, it's an ambiguous 
situation created by me, and I would avoid it in my normal speech. 

 wrote in message
news:47b32c4f$0$36443$4faf...@reader5.news.tin.it...

There is a fairly common error in which speakers, accustomed to avoiding
using "me" or "him" or other accusatives where "I" and "he" or other
nominatives would be correct, get carried away and use "I" and "he" or other
nominatives almost exclusively, in an effort to sound "grammatically
correct", which results in a rather comical efffect.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22between+he+and+I%22&btnG=Google+Search
Joe from Massachusetts

 
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22between+he+and+I%22&btnG=Google+Search
Yes, I've read about it. It's sometimes called "hypercorrection".
Kiuhnm

 correct", which results in a rather comical efffect.
However it's interesting to note that Shakespeare *did* use "between you 
and I".
Kiuhnm

 and I".
Your comment inspired me to do a search and I found the following: I may try 
to search Merchant of Venice some day to find just how he used it, and 
whether it corresponds to the example I gave, or whether I'd consider the 
usage incorrect, out-of-hand.
http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxbetwee.html
I woke up today thinking about this issue. How sad is that? I'm troubled 
about the validity of my statement that "between you and I" refers to the 
subject in the example I offered. There's a difference between these 
constructions, even if the intended meaning is the same:
"You and I, we should be able to accomplish this goal."
"You and I together, we should be able to accomplish this goal."
"Between you and I, we should be able to accomplish this goal."
I want to point out that the intended meaning is different than in the 
following example:
"Between you and me, he doesn't know what he's talking about."
In this example, the meaning is conspiratol. In the previous example, the 
meaning is cooperative. There may be a definitive answer to the question of 
which to use in the original example I provided, but I don't know it. I 
think the best thing to do, when trying to learn the language or as a 
competent speaker of the language, is to avoid such conundrums. 

 wrote in message
news:47b46be2$0$36446$4faf...@reader5.news.tin.it...

But only once. My personal theory is that it has something to do with the
fact that the Venetian dialect has no "io".
Joe from Massachusetts