Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Un piccolo aiutino 2

Una piccola conferma...
Come dico : come hai fatto ?
How do you have done ?
oppure
How did you have do?
Grazie...


How did you do?
Ciao
Mario
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Grazie...
Queste purtroppo sono sbagliate entrambe. In ogni caso dipende da cosa vuoi
dire.
Come hai fatto nel senso di: "come ci sei riuscito" (esprimendo incredulità)
io lo direi, how did you do that?, oppure how did you manage?
Come hai fatto nel senso di: "com'è andata", io lo direi "how did it go", o
anche "how was it for you" (e voi altri non cominciate a ridere, che vi
conosco!).
Benvenuto nel NG
Ciao
Isa I 1/3

Dear Isabella
Heavenly, darling, simply heavenly!
And for you?
I remain, even in the height of ecstasy
Bambi
dtb
(Well you said don't start laughing and I can assure you, I am not.)

And for you?
A new and vividly immaginative application for newsgroup interactions?
Every day's a new adventure. Pardon my intrusion.
Ciao,
Ron
This newsgroup rated XXX

...

Was it not the EmmCee in 'Cabaret' who sang
'...twosies beats onesies, but nothing beats threes....' Not an
intrusion at all Ron....
In any event, Isabella started it.
I remain, ecstatically yours,
Bambi
dtb

(Well you said don't start laughing and I can assure you, I am not.)
I was thinking more of the mischievous ones in the group...
Lotta you-know-what
Isa

Bambi
Santa Teresa! Quelle cattoliche!
Ciao,
Ron

Santa Teresa! Quelle cattoliche!
You know how us catholic girls can be
We make up for so much time
a little too late...
Ovviamente, ancora Alanis.
Ciao
Isa

...

:
:

due.
And when my hand touches my self
I can finally rest my head
And when they say "take of His body"
I think I'll take from mine, instead
This is Tori Amos, but I think it apt as well.
You omitted the mention but, confessional or not, I still feel sorry for
you. Or maybe I am mistaken and you had a jolly good time?
Ciao
Isa

This is Tori Amos, but I think it apt as well.
Purely for the educational benefit to NG participants who wish to improve
their skills in translating current English language phrasology through the
study of manifestations of popular culture such as American song lyrics, I
contribute this passage.
RIGHT HAND MAN, by Joan Osborne
Let me use your toothbrush,
have you got a clean shirt,
my panties in a wad,
at the bottom of my purse.
I walk into the street,
the air's so cool,
I'm wired and I'm tired,
and I'm grinning like a fool.
I've been on a floor looking for a chair,
I've been on a chair looking for a couch,
I've been on a couch looking for a bed,
Looking for a bed, looking for...
My right hand, my right hand man....
If he can't fix it, I don't know who can.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

...
:
:And when my hand touches my self
:I can finally rest my head
:And when they say "take of His body"
:I think I'll take from mine, instead
:
:This is Tori Amos, but I think it apt as well.
:
:You omitted the mention but, confessional or not, I still feel sorry

:
:
:

Dear Ron,
I am starting to feel very behind the times with regard to popular
music these day, I must say.  I suspect you are right and the verse
will be of interest for exactly the reasons you cite.
A thought, however.
Does the song hold true for left-handed people as well?
Just wondering.
I remain, as always ecc
Bambi
dtb
(snip) :
:RIGHT HAND MAN, by Joan Osborne


Does the song hold true for left-handed people as well?
I must admit that the thought of this inventive meeting you appear to
suggest between such disparate entities as the ephemeral "hold true" and the
discernable "popular song" leaves me at a loss for a response that might
satisfy your inestimatable ecstatic curiosity. Indeed, I find myself
wondering if you might be indulging in that immensely delightful British
pastime of understated humor that leaves even the most oblivious men and
women holding their bellys on both sides of the pond.
I can only suppose that your reference to other fellows endowed with
particular-sided dexterity should indicate a presumption for a decidedly
singular interpretation of that lyrical exercise you so enthusiastically
agreed to ensconse into the service of linguistic adornment; whilst I, on
the other hand am left to ponder whether the more mundane metaphorical
interpretation of fraternal placement might better befit such a common
lyrical undertaking.
Chances are...it's
Ron
USA
principiante

its entirety.
Of course you can. The song is "Icicle", the album "Under the Pink", and I
have this feeling you'd enjoy the whole CD. It's light years away from any
easy-listening catchy pop record you might want to avoid, so don't fear.
Thanks for telling me about the rest.
Were you not Brit, were I not afraid to invade your reserve with my
cheekiness, I'd send you a hug...
Love
Isa

 Well, it was, and so, in this instence, 
Cos'e' :instence?
Ciao.
Giovanni

Cos'e' :instence?
Instance. (in quest'occasione, in questo caso). Speaking of Bambi, do
blindly trust anything that comes from her, but her spelling.
:-)))
Love even in despair (can't read my e-mail this morning, damn 
tin.it
)
Isa

Dear Giovanni
I promise to pay particular attention when posting to this NG
regarding my spelling, which I repeat, is awful.
I thank HRH, Isabella for having explained both the grammatical
explanation and the spelling issue.
I remain, as always, ecc
Bambi
dtb
Giovanni ha scritto nel messaggio +ADw-37218118.99287A58+AEA-cibernet.it+AD4-...
:Bambi ha scritto:
:+AD4-
:+AD4- Dear Isabella
:+AD4- I recollect mentioning
:
:Nella grammatica trovo :to recollect having done something.
:Si puo' usare anche il solo gerundio?
:+AD4-
:+AD4- Well, it was, and so, in this instence,
:
:Cos'e' :instence?
:
:Ciao.
:Giovanni


It's a typo.
Should read "instAnce".
Peltio

 
Avevo intuito lo scambio di vocale, ma penso sempre che puo' esserci una
parola talmente ricercata, o di gergo, da non trovarsi sul vocabolario.
Ciao. Giovanni

Caro Ron,
Bambi ti ha chiesto se la canzone e' valida anche per i mancini.
Tu hai dato una risposta complessa, articolata, altisonante, a sfondo sottilmente
umoristico,che all'interno di quattordici righe ha solo quattro segni di
interpunzione.
Per poterla godere appieno, e dato che e' mia ambizione riuscire a tradurre in
italiano il pensiero espresso in inglese, chiariscimi per favore che 
significato dai a :
-the ephemeral "hold true" and the  discernable "popular song" 
-if you might be indulging 
- of the pond.
- particular-sided dexterity 
-to ensconse into the service of linguistic adornment;
-the more mundane metaphorical interpretation of fraternal placement
  might better befit such a common lyrical undertaking.
 
- Chances are...it's
Ciao
Giovanni

 Bambi
Dear Bambi, I thank you very much for your response.
Se me lo permetti, vorrei farti notare un particolare che appare come una
piccola stonatura nei tuoi messaggi, scritti con tanta ricercatezza formale
e competenza di lingua.
Mi riferisco alla chiusura : "I remain, as always, ecc"
Questa espressione sa un po' di sciattoneria. In genere essa viene usata
quando si da la bozza ad una segretaria, la quale poi mette le formalita'
d'uso, che appunto vengono percepite da chi scrive come fatto puramente
formale al quale non corrisponde alcun sentimento.
Insomma e' come dire : "Si, vabbe', ti scrivo che ti saluto, che rimango
your faithful friend, ma te lo scrivo solo per pura formalita', non perche'
sia vero, e d'altronde quell'ecc. puo' sottintendere qualunque cosa, tanto
l'una vale l'altra, nessuna di esse corrispondendo ad un mio sincero sentimento".
Credo che la tua sensibilita' concordi con questo mio giudizio.
Ciao.
Giovanni

parola talmente ricercata, o di gergo, da non trovarsi sul vocabolario.
Il rasoio di Occam c'insegna che la soluzione più semplice è quasi sempre
quella giusta...
Ciao
Isa

chiariscimi per favore che significato dai a :
Giovanni, e' domenica e voglio giocare, ti mandero' un spiegazione quando ho
piu' tempo.
Ciao,
Ron
USA
principiante in italiano

>Does the song hold true for left-handed people as well?
Of course !!! I believe a left-handed DO need a right-hand man !!!!
--
Er Roscio.

Of course !!! I believe a left-handed DO need a right-hand man !!!!
Roscio, "left-handed e' un'aggettivo. Si deve dire:
"I believe a left-handed person does need a right-hand man."


...
:Giovanni wrote:

:

Dear Giovanni,
Firstly, I thank you for your kind words regarding my posts.
On the off-chance that it isn't blatantly obvious, I should like to
point out that in my posts to this NG, I am deliberately exaggerating
a formal, stylised manner of writing. A style which, none-the-less,  I
personally find appealing. I  use this style for a number of reasons.
As a means of providing  members of this NG  with the opportunity of
reading an ' alternative ' style of writing (alternative by today's
standards), yet in an informal context. In other words, not in a novel
by Charles Dickens, but in every day correspondence.  I
thought also that it would broaden the  scope
of phrases, words and style to which members might
have access and consequently, be of interest.
The closing I generally use, ' I remain, ecc, '  would,  in a totally
formal context, be correct.  My usage of it, including the appendage
 ' ecc. ' is a light-hearted reference to a post some while back,
wherein a writer, I forget exactly who, asked if it was still in
use, or if it had become outdated. The concensus was that it was
outdated. I disagreed.  I am using it,  therefore,  in the spirit of
protestation.
You are quite right in saying it is generally used as a means of
closing a purely formal, routine letter, in the most prefunctionary
manner and consequently is in no way sincere. I
meant for it to be understood as almost a mockery of formality. Also
perhaps, I mean it as a way
of saying that notwithstanding my British heritage which
carries with it an allusion to the  ' British stiff upper lip ', I am
quite willing and able to  poke fun at this heritage.
Therefore, with kind regards,
Bambi
dtb
Giovanni ha scritto nel messaggio :
:I remain, as always, ecc
: Bambi
:
:Dear Bambi, I thank you very much for your response.
:
:Se me lo permetti, vorrei farti notare un particolare che appare come
una
:piccola stonatura nei tuoi messaggi, scritti con tanta ricercatezza
formale
:e competenza di lingua.
:
:Mi riferisco alla chiusura : +ACI-I remain, as always, ecc+ACI-
:
:Questa espressione sa un po' di sciattoneria. In genere essa viene
usata
:quando si da la bozza ad una segretaria, la quale poi mette le
formalita'
:d'uso, che appunto vengono percepite da chi scrive come fatto
puramente
:formale al quale non corrisponde alcun sentimento.
:
:Insomma e' come dire : +ACI-Si, vabbe', ti scrivo che ti saluto, che
rimango
:your faithful friend, ma te lo scrivo solo per pura formalita', non
perche'
:sia vero, e d'altronde quell'ecc. puo' sottintendere qualunque cosa,
tanto
:l'una vale l'altra, nessuna di esse corrispondendo ad un mio sincero
sentimento+ACI-.
:
:Credo che la tua sensibilita' concordi con questo mio giudizio.
:
:Ciao.
:Giovanni

"I believe a left-handed person does need a right-hand man."
Me l'aspettavo, acc...
Comunque "un aggettivo" è maschile e si scrive senza apostrofo !!!
(siamo pari !!! :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
--
Er Roscio.

of course. I for one, was greatly amused.
I would have expected no less of you.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

(siamo pari !!! :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Si, e' come mettere insieme uno storpio e uno sciancato!


Si, e' come mettere insieme uno storpio e uno sciancato!
Caspita! Ron si è appropriato di una grassa ma sana ironia italiana!
Ciao,
Dario.
ITA

Caspita! Ron si è appropriato di una grassa ma sana ironia italiana!
Dario, credi che gli italiani sono i padroni della ironia? Che egocentrio!
Hai gia' il cinismo, vuoi anche l'ironia? (state attento altri italiani, Dario
sa che lui sto stuzzicando.)
In inglese, si dice: "it's like the blind leading the blind."
Ciao,
Ron
USA
principiante in italiano.

in Italia sono ormai obsoleti ;-)
Certo. Ho saputo che probabilmente non era le politiche corrette (politically
correct?) ma il mio libro delle espressioni idiomatiche italiane me l'hanno dato
per "the blind leading the blind." Beh, ho sperato che per un principiante,
tutti sarebbero di manica larga. (l'ho detto bene?)


In inglese, si dice: "it's like the blind leading the blind."
Ron, questo si dice un po' in tutte le lingue: e` nel Vangelo (Matteo,
XV, 4; Luca VI, 39). BTW, a Capodimonte c'e` una bellissima tela di
Bruegel il Vecchio raffigurante la tragedia di sei ciechi che si
accompagnano l'uno con l'altro, mentre il primo di essi sta cadendo in
un fiume.
IMO, nel commento di Dario dovevi porre attenzione non al sostantivo
("ironia") ma agli aggettivi ("grassa ma sana"). I termini che avevi
adoperato ("storpio" e "sciancato") in Italia sono ormai obsoleti ;-)
Ciao
Ferdinando Chiodo

 XV, 4; Luca VI, 39).
Ricordi "Fumo di Londra", quel film di Alberto Sordi degli anni '60?
Sordi era ospite di una famiglia aristocratica inglese. Gli veniva
offerta la Bibbia perche' la leggesse la sera, e lui rispondeva
con gentile e virile consapevolezza: "Grazie, non leggo la Bibbia,
sono cattolico" (e cosi' siamo OT col Subject).
Ciao
Alex
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Si, e' come mettere insieme uno storpio e uno sciancato!
Speriamo di non imparare a zoppicare entrambi nelle nostre rispettive madrelingue !!!!!
--
Er Roscio.

tutti sarebbero di manica larga. (l'ho detto bene?)
"Politicamente corretto".
Forse qualcuno avrebbe preferito usare "artoleso" o "diversabile", ma la frase sarebbe stata
illeggibile e totalmente priva di humour.
Invece, una volta tanto (ehehehe... ;-) la tua frase era corretta ed equilibrata,
oltre che simpatica, come il tuo solito.
--
Er Roscio.

In inglese, si dice: "it's like the blind leading the blind."
Grazie, ho letto anche l'interessante msg di Ferdinando.
Ciao,
Dario.
ITA

Gli italiani.
Dear Dario,
I would like to thank you for such a gracious and formal letter of admission
into the distant perimeter of Italian intellectual discourse. I had no prior
knowledge of your status as an esteemed representative of this intellectual
elite since you so aptly hid the clues from dedicated newsgroup readers like
myself.
In speaking to a direct descendent of Dante, I can only hope that my Italian
descendents were reluctant, if not happy recipients of that seminal influence,
rather than that of wandering or conquering Greeks, Arabs, Norse, Germans, or
other barbarians, who left their bootmarks before and after that great
unification some still consider annexation. As you may know, my grandparents,
born in your great land, bade it farewell for less than intellectual
motivations.
At least, their consequent survival allowed me to develop, with an ample serving
of native culture albeit transformed mother tongue, into the aspiring student of
intellectual discourse I am today. And this ancient root, this fertile seed, may
have been the source of the deserving attribution you have kindly bestowed on
me, still only a distant moon, circling a far planet, orbiting that brilliant
sun: gli italiani.
Despite numerous tests and obstacles that would have deterred Hercules, who
labored without the ancestrial help of a Dante by misfortune of untimely and
malplaced birth, I have endeavored to glimpse some facsimile of intellectual
achievement that would permit my approach toward your elevated expectations. I
wonder who could have done as well, faced with such traumatic cultural
distractions, as the sight of pineapple on pizza, a cold glass of milk served
with spaghetti, and feminine armpits laid bare at the edge of a blade.
You do me a kind service Sir, in saying that I occassionaly stumble near that
rarified domain of Italian intellectual achievement, and I shall be in your debt
until your next posting.


[...]
Dear colleagues,
I cannot refrain my tears, I am glowing with the enthusiasm of
success. I finally succeeded in discovering the mystery of human
nature and the secrets of language. In just a few messages I
found myself capable of turning Ron into the decent character of
an Ishiguro's novel.
I remain, ecc...
Dario.
ITA
The remains, ecc... of the day

debt paid

Ron ha scritto nel messaggio (to Dario)
'...and I shall be in your debt
until your next posting.'
Dear Ron,
With reference to the above, masterfully done, if I may say so. And so quickly acquitted, too. Impressive. Most impressive.
:Dario ha scritto:
:Dear colleagues,
:(snip) In just a few messages I
:found myself capable of turning Ron into the decent character of
:an Ishiguro's novel.
I knew that one who writes as wonderfully as you do, Dario, could do it, if anyone could. Ishiguro would be proud.
:I remain, ecc...
:Dario.
:ITA
:The remains, ecc... of the day
Most amusing....
No, Sir, it is I who remain, ecc
Bambi
dtb