Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Versar miele sulla lama!

ciao a tutti!
In una canzone di Elisa ho trovato questa frase che tradotta letteralmente
non ha molto senso quindi ho pensato fosse un proverbio o qualcosa di
simile.
La frase è "to pour honey on the blade".
Grazie a chi saprà spiegarmene il significato ...e anche a tutti gli altri
che non lo sanno ma frequentano l'NG!
Ciao!
BluDes

 Grazie a chi saprà spiegarmene il significato ...
Honey on the blade of knife
from 
http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/99dec09/edit.htm#3
============================================================================
It is for Mrs. Gandhi to revise her lessons of Roman history and save her
family, that is by not doing anything that the Medicis did. Don't encourage
the cronies, but more importantly, don't have unbridled political ambitions.
A seat in Parliament is not unbridled ambition: but to covet the Prime
Minister of India's chair certainly is. This is where the message of the
latest people's verdict comes in. Far above the quibblings of the Congress
managers about the party's increased vote percentage as against the
decreased seats, there is the basic truth: The crown of India is not waiting
to be picked up by just anyone; that it belongs to the truly deserving one
and certainly Mrs. Sonia Gandhi is not that one.
If anyone tries to tell her otherwise, he is, as a Tibetan saying goes,
                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
offering honey on the blade of a knife. And, unfortunately for Mrs. Gandhi,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
there are too many cronies offering too much   honey on too many knives. It
is nearly impossible to taste the honey without cutting one's tongue?
... more @ 
 
http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/99dec09/edit.htm#3
============================================================================
... just my five Yen (go-En)
-- 
' S A T O R I '
"Civilization has nothing to do with having electric lights, airplanes,
or manufacturing atomic bombs. It has nothing to do with killing human
beings,destroying things or waging war. Civilization is to hold one
another in mutual affection and respect. " -- Nichidatsu Fujii.
------------------------------------------------------
 Free & Easy!  Love, Peace, Email   
http://JMAIL.CO.JP

 is nearly impossible to taste the honey without cutting one's tongue?
ok, thank you. I've understood the meaning of this saying.
Now I'm wondering: is there something like that in Italian?
I thought about "non c'è rosa senza spine". could it be?
Any suggest?
Thanks again!
BluDes

 Any suggest?
Veramente, a me sembra tutta un'altra cosa. Secondo me una traduzione adatta
potrebbe essere "cercare di ingannare/fregare qualcuno", o forse anche "fare
il doppio gioco", probabilmente da vedere nel contesto. L'idea è che, se ti
offro del miele su una lama, ti sto offrendo qualcosa di dolce e buono per
attirarti invece in una trappola, visto che quando lo assaggerai ti
taglierai la lingua.
"Non c'è rosa senza spine" viene usato (veniva usato, a mio avviso è oramai
decaduto nel parlato) invece per indicare una situazione marginalmente
similie, ma ponendo l'accento sul fatto che bene e male sono spesso
indissolubilmente legati tra loro (oggi si direbbe "non è tutto bianco o
nero"). Oppure ancora veniva usato come sinonimo di "non è tutto oro quel
che luccica", ma qui mi sembra più un monito a non prendere le cose di petto
perché ciò che a prima vista sembra bello può rivelarsi invece non così
positivo quando lo si scopre meglio.
Il miele sul coltello dà proprio l'idea di una trappola invece, è una azione
sostantivata: "IO verso il miele sul coltello per TE", mentre i modi di dire
italiani di cui stiamo discutendo sono tutti impersonali, e quindi secondo
me inadatti.
Io tradurrei con "cercare di ingannare qualcuno".
Giovanni Bajo

 Io tradurrei con "cercare di ingannare qualcuno".
Sono d'accordo, ma se vogliamo trovare un modo di dire idiomatico, io
proporrei "indorare la pillola" che non rende perfettamente il senso
insidioso di "to pour honey on the blade" ma però anche questa espressione
indica un qualcosa di negativo mascherato in modo da sembrare positivo.
Cinzia
--
Per rispondermi personalmente, togliere "-sendmenocrap" dal mio indirizzo
e-mail.
To reply, please remove "-sendmenocrap" from my e-mail address.

 indica un qualcosa di negativo mascherato in modo da sembrare positivo.
Concordo, ed è anche soggettivata (io sto indorando la pillola a te).
Giovanni Bajo

Grazie milleper il vostro aiuto.
A me perň era venuta in mente un'altra possibile soluzione: non ho pensato
che il miele venisse versato per qualcun altro ma per se stessi.
Mi spiego meglio... la frase completa č "I want to pour honey on the blade"
e l'ho intesa come "voler rischiare": io rischio di tagliarmi mangiando il
miele dal coltello.
siete d'accordo?
ciao
BD

miele dal coltello.
Why did you not say from the beginning that you
are quoting from the lyrics of a pop song?
The first thing to understand
about modern pop songs is that it would be futile to try and make sense of
the lyrics of most of them. "Mr. Want" by Elisa appears to be an excellent
example to prove this point.
At any rate, you seem to have found your
answer already on 
http://www.elisa-page.com/Testi%5Cwan.htm
 (or is that
your web page, by any chance?)
The lyrics were written by E. Toffoli, an
Ialian, I believe.
The copyright is owned by Insieme s.r.l., Galleria
del Corso 4, 20122 Milano.
My suggestion would be that you call Insieme
s.r.l. and ask for the email address of E. Toffoli. Then write to this
person, ask him/her to smoke once more the grass he/she smoked when he/she
wrote the lyrics of "Mr. Want" and then tell you what he/she meant with the
line "I want to pour honey on the blade"
---
Xakero
--------------------------------
Inviato via 
http://usenet.iol.it
 

 Ialian, I believe.
E. Toffoli is Elisa herself.
Giovanni

 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:194Z29Z24Z4Y1...@usenet.iol.it...


 of your songs..." :-)
Good heavens! I was not serious about the grass; it was my
tongue-in-cheek way of venting my displeasure about the silliness of
the lyrics.
I consider it opportune to look at the line "I want to pour honey on
the blade" in the context of the lines that precede and follow it:
QUOTE
I want to bathe in the sea of rescue
I want to knit a sweater for the moon
I want to steal your breath and sell it
I want to pour honey on the blade.
But Mr. Want is dead
he was sick for a long time
I would like to have known him
but he left too soon.
UNQUOTE
To my eyes, "I want to pour honey on the blade" is out of place here;
"I want to fly to the moon" or "I want to drink coffee" would be more
appropriate.
SATORI has quoted you an incidence of a journalistic use of the idiom
"honey on the blade". On my part, a search of the Internet produced
the following results:
QUOTE
The Buddha said, "People are unable to renounce wealth and sex. They
are just like a child who cannot resist honey on the blade of a knife.
Even though the amount is not even enough for a single meal serving,
he will lick it and risk cutting his tongue in the process."
UNQUOTE
Source: 
http://www.buddhistinformation.com/sutra_in_fortytwo_sections.htm
QUOTE
Young man,
If you try to eat honey
On the blade of a knife,
You will cut yourself.
If you try to taste honey
On the kiss of a woman,
Taste with the lips only,
If not, young man,
You will bite your own heart.
UNQUOTE
Source: 
http://www.wenaus.com/poetry/gardenbrightwaters.html
Of course, with the use of the phrase "pour honey on the blade" it all
depends if Elisa's Mr. Want is pouring the honey for himself to lick
off the blade, or to offer it to somebody else. Only Elisa will be
able to tell you that. Immediately before wanting to pour honey on the
blade, Elisa's Mr. Want wanted to steal your breath, and before that
knit a sweater for the moon, hence the honey could easily be poured
for you (more likely) or for the moon (less likely)
At any rate, I admire your courage of making an effort to translate
what to me is an incomprehensible and meaningless text.
---
Xakero

The reason why I think that you can't say if she is pouring honey for you or
herself is that each single line of her lyrics isn't connected in any way
with the following or the previous!
But since she is talking about things that she can't do I think that she is
going to taste the honey herself just because normally it's a thing you
wouldn't do!
I try to explain myself a bit better...
she wants to bathe in the sea of rescue, she wants to knit a sweater for the
moon, she wants to steal your breath and sell it and she wants to eat honey
on the blade even if she will be cut!
can you understand what I mean? (actually, reading what I've written up to
now I can't understand myself!!! It seems like I'm starting writing on the
NG just the way Elisa writes her lyrics!!! :-) or maybe it's just because
I'm tired for work)
Anyway I have to say... I thought it would have been easier to translate a
song!
Thank you for your help and your suggestions (I know you were joking when
you wrote about the things she smoked before writing the song... I was
joking too when I answered!!! :-))
'bye
BD