Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Verbo: coniugazione della prima persona come fosse la terza

Prego leggere il seguente brano (tratto da un racconto di fine 800):
 
It was only a little thing, too. I had come into the parlour 
unexpected, and as I walked in at the door I saw a light of welcome on 
my wife's face. But as she saw who it was it faded again, and she 
turned away with a look of disappointement. That was enough for me. 
There was no one but Alec Fairbairn whose step she could have mistake 
for mine. If I could have seen him then I should have killed him, for 
I have always been like a madman when my temper gets loose. Mary saw 
the devil's light in my eyes, and she ran forward with her hands on my 
sleeve.  Don't, Jim, don't!  says she.  Where's Sarah?  I asked.  In 
the kitchen,  says she.  Sarah,  says I, as I went in,  this man 
Fairbairn is never to darken my door again.   Why not?  says 
she.  Because I order it.   Oh!  says she,  if my friends are not good 
enough for this house, then I am not good enough for it either.  You 
can do what you like,  says I,  but if Fairbain showes his face here 
again, I'll send you one of his ears for a keepsake.  She was 
frightened by my face, I think, for she never answered a word, and the 
same evening she left my house. 
 
Come si vede in questo brano la prima persona viene coniugata come 
fosse la terza (I say, I says).
Non sono un esperto di inglese: qualcuno può spiegare come mai, in 
base a quale regola avviene e quando?
 
-- 
peppino
 

 base a quale regola avviene e quando?
 
ï¿œ scritto come parlasse una persona non bene istruita, forse per 
indicare il tipo, il luogo, e l'epoca. Ci sono anche molti altri errori, 
per esempio, "disappointement", e "showes", e "I had come into the 
parlour unexpected." Si puï¿œ giustificare tutti da dire che ï¿œ la licenza 
del autore per creare l'impressione e l'ambiente desiderate.
 

 del autore per creare l'impressione e l'ambiente desiderate.
 
Grazie per la risposta, mi hai chiarito le idee.
Devo confessare però che "disappointement" e "showes" sono stato io ad 
averle copiate male, mentre nell'originale sono scritte correttamente 
(disappointment e shows).
Nell'originale comunque "I had come into the parlour unexpected" è 
scritta proprio così. Mi puoi dire qual'è l'errore e come invece 
andrebbe scritta?
 
-- 
peppino
 

 andrebbe scritta?
 
Ci vuole l'avverbio non l'aggettivo.
I had come unexpectedly into the parlor.
 
 

 andrebbe scritta?
 
It's a matter of style, and technically the sentence as written is not 
incorrect. In this case "unexpected" is an adjective describing the speaker, 
not an adverb describing how he came into the parlor.
 
It's along the lines of "I feel bad" (correct) vs "I feel badly" (incorrect, 
and the way most people say it, despite it's being incorrect.) Same idea 
here: "bad" describes the speaker's feeling, so it's an adjective. It 
wouldn't make sense to use an adverb because if you did you would be saying 
"I'm bad at feeling," "I don't do a good job of feeling: I 'feel' badly."
 
-- 
Joey from New York
Remember: It is To Laugh
 
Among those whom I like or admire, I can find no common denominator,
but among those whom I love, I can:
all of them make me laugh.
   -- WH Auden
 


Dovrebbe aggiungere che se fosse scritto, "I had come into the 
unexpected parlor" la frase sarebbe stata bene scritta, ma avrebbe 
significato che trovare quella stanza fosse una sopresa.
 


My first thought was that the sentence was similar to
   "I had come into the parlour uninvited."
and meant (with "unexpected" in place of "uninvited") that the other 
people didn't expect to see him.
 
Kiuhnm

 people didn't expect to see him.
 
The use of "to come uninvited" is accepted. It is much less acceptable 
to say "to come unexpected." One expects to hear instead "to come 
unexpectedly." Taken in context with the whole section of text, the 
awkwardness of the phrase corresponds to the awkwardness of the "I says" 
and I expect that the author was trying to convey the lack of formal 
education on the part of the speaker.
 
Although I did use the expression "molti altri errori," I should be 
careful using the word "error" whenever I talk about the English 
language. You'll always find people who will defend against the horrible 
word "error." If a phrase is said enough times, by speakers who bend 
conventional expectations, it eventually becomes part of the language. 
Essentially, the sentence is just substandard and adds to the atmosphere 
of the text.
 

 to say "to come unexpected." 
 
This is an area where Tony and I disagree. This isn't jargon or slang or 
sloppy language.
 
As I pointed out earlier, the adjective is correct here, as it modifies the 
speaker, not his action. He could have said he came into the parlo(u)r 
unexpectedly, but that's not what he meant. He meant that he "was unexpected 
when he came into the parlour." The nuance is slight (as are all nuances) and 
might not be picked up by some people, but it's there, nevertheless.


 might not be picked up by some people, but it's there, nevertheless.
 
I'll agree with you that the writer's intended meaning was that the 
speaker's wife didn't expect his arrival, and we can continue to hold 
different opinions about the awkwardness, or sophisticated nuance of the 
phrasing.
 
In fact, if I hear someone, who has recently imbibed some sour milk, say 
"I feel badly" I won't shake my ruler at him, or think that he has numb 
fingers. I'm pretty good at guessing from usage and context that he 
feels poorly. (Oops! I should have said "he does not feel well" to avoid 
another disagreement, or would that also mean that he has numb fingers?)
 
But I would ask any reader to consider the image of the writer that the 
original posted paragraph creates. When the writer writes "says I" or 
"she could have mistake for mine," are those phrases consistent with a 
character who has a highly nuanced understanding of English usage, or do 
they indicate someone a little lower on the nuance-ability scale?

 they indicate someone a little lower on the nuance-ability scale?
 
Probably the latter, but that doesn't rule out all instances of nuance from 
said speaker.
 
To me, "I came into the parlour unexpectedly" means he was expecting to find 
himself somewhere else, maybe the dining room.
 
With "unexpected" the meaning is as I inferred and stated earlier.
