Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Dialetti

E' uscito da poco un libro che rappresenta la prima mappa completa dei
dialetti parlati negli Stati Uniti continentali e nel Canada :
"Atlas of North American English" del prof. William Labov.
Uno degli argomenti di studio di Labov è il cosiddetto "Brooklynese".
A questo proposito è interessante la teoria che il professore ipotizza
sull'abitudine di far cadere la R: "feah" invece di fear e "watta"
invece di water. Secondo la sua interpretazione, fino agli anni '40 la
caduta della R era uno snobismo imitativo della lingua inglese. Ma
dopo la seconda guerra mondiale, con la scomparsa dello status
imperiale della Gran Bretagna, l'assenza della R perse il suo
prestigio e divenne appannaggio delle classi inferiori. A riprova di
ciiò il professore cita una sua ricerca degli anni '60.
Intervistando clienti e dipendenti del prestigioso negozio newyorkese
Saks Fifth Avenue, Labov scoprì che i clienti dei piani superiori
(quelli con la merce più costosa) non perdevano quasi mai la R, al
contrario di quelli dei piani inferiori. I cassieri erano a mezza via
mentre i magazzinieri non pronunciavano quasi mai la R.
Su tutti questi argomenti c'è un articolo interessante, a firma John
Seabrook, sul New Yorker del 14 novembre dell'anno scorso. Da cui
riporto un interessante paragrafo su una recente conferenza del prof.
Labov.
"These days, Labov found, the most extreme dialect change in the
country is taking place in the Chicago area. "The 'eah' sound, which
you hear in 'happened - heahppened' - is a young, very invasive sound
that is rapidly changing a number of other sounds around it," he said.
This so-called "Northern Cities shift" is spreading toward St.Louis
along I-55, transforming the Inland North dialect, which used to be
the model for standard American pronounciation. Labov explained that
locals in such areas as northern Ohio and Michigan traditionally spoke
precise English because they wanted to distinguish themselves from the
speakers of Southern dialect in their states - a split that seems to
go back to the Civil War"

 speakers of Southern dialect in their states
Sarah Jessica Parker does have a good accent, though there might be
another reason for this.
[...]
Ciao, FB
-- 
"Gli americani sono ignoranti per loro stessa natura",
that is "Americans are naturally ignorant"
(Paolo Bonardi's opinion - it.cultura.linguistica -
http://snipurl.com/7ryg
)
More? 
http://snipurl.com/e4x0

 "Atlas of North American English" del prof. William Labov.
Interessante, ma guarda quanto costa:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/3110167468/sr=1-1/qid=1138546129/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-1558291-0762518?%5Fencoding=UTF8
O_o 

 dei file audio.
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/fb83/allen_w_hard.mp3
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/fb83/allen_w_or.mp3
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/fb83/allen_w_start.mp3
(let me know if you can't download them)
But Woody Allen is not consistently non-rhotic---as RP speakers are, that
is. I suppose few Americans are. Joey, who lives in New York but is from
Boston, said, if I remember correctly, that he used to be non-rhotic
before he discarded that accent in favour of a NY accent, but if you hear
all the speakers from the area available at
http://accent.gmu.edu
you'll realize that---if I remember correctly, I haven't listened to them
recently---they all say "store" as [stO@] but "her" as [h@r]. I think that
[@r] at the beginning of or inside a word---not at the end---is one of the
most difficult sounds to de-rhoticize, so to speak, for an AmEng speaker.
I think I've already said that Barbra Streisand, who in general is
consistently non-rhotic (as a singer, not in real life), doesn't manage to
say "person" without the "r".
[...]
Bye, FB
-- 
bludiesel, una voce fuori dal coro.
...o un cretino?
(RedWiz su it.arti.cinema)

L'accento non-rhotic di F.D. Roosevelt
"The only thing we have to 'feah' is 'feah' itself"
(Franklin D. Roosevelt: First Inaugural Address)

 mentre i magazzinieri non pronunciavano quasi mai la R.
Devo averlo già letto da qualche parte, o su un libro di David Crystal
o di Bill Bryson.


I think you have to differentiate between dialect and accent,
especially when it comes to Newyorkese, or Brooklynese. In Italy it is
easy to spot a Veneto or Neapolitan or Piedmontese accent, even when
the speakers are educated and are speaking correct Italian. That
doesn't mean they're speaking in dialect.
Woody Allen speaks with a very New York accent, but I doubt he ever
spoke the New York dialect. On the other hand, Cindy Lauper speaks the
New York dialect, in no matter what circumstances she may find
herself, and it can be quite difficult to understand her. If you get a
chance to listen to her, you will understand what I mean.
Fran Drescher, ("The Nanny")  speaks with a New York
Jewish/Brooklynese accent, but I don't think she ever spoke real
Newyorkese.
Some words particular to real Newyorkese: da, dis, dese, dose, dem,
dey,  fadda, mudda, sistah, bruddah, heah, deah, erl (oil), Oil
(Earl), oit (earth), boit (birth), goidle (girdle), soitin (certain),
ting, tink, taw, nawt, sout, pernt (point), gawn (going) ("Í'm gawn to
da staw, yez want anytin?), gonna, wanna, dontcha, chawklit, cawfee,
twenny, tirdy, foaty, sevenny, foist, toid, foat, sixt, ate, nint,
tent, elevint, avinya (avenue), aroun, behine, unda, neah, fah. The
verb ending "ing" is never pronounced, although sing, ring and bring
(past tense brung, as in "My muddah brung me to da staw to get me a
boitday present") are pronounced normally.
And for FB, real New Yorkers say "huh", not "her", at least among
themselves.  :>)
Joe from Massachusetts

 chance to listen to her, you will understand what I mean.
I just have. Very strong accent, I'd say. Not particularly classy, no. Do
many people still speak like that?
I've found an interview with her googling <Cyndi [sic] Lauper interview
watch> and then clicking on "AOL something" on the first page.
[...]
Bye, FB
-- 
Se dico "siedi!" manca l'oggetto.
Siedo chi? Lei o me?
(da it.cultura.linguistica.italiano)

 wrote in message
news:ah84w41h5tao$.wo24liq12c0o$.dlg@40tude.net...

Woids fail me. Dere ain't nuttin woise dan when somebody makes funna
da way ya tawwk. Cyndi Lawwpa's pooah Eyetalian mudda would soitinly
be sad to heah what you said about huh. Whadja tink, she loint to tawk
dat way by huhself? Deahs tousans an tousans a Noo Yawwkas dat tawwks
jus like Lawwpa, maybe even woisa. Youse Eyetalians aín't got no
business makin funna da way we tawwk in Nawwt America. I wudn make
funna my frens in Nawwt Itly who ride aroun in deah freakin gondòlas
tawwkin wit deah mouts closed, ta keep deah teet from freezin, aw
maybe all dat polenta an grappa makes da teet stick tagedda. Needa wud
I say nuttin bad about my goombahs down in da Sout a Itly, who tawwk
too loud an wave deah hans aroun like some kina opra singas, like dey
was some kina freakin Pavvarottys. Dere aint no room in dis woild fa
dis kina intolerance. I hopy yez loins a lesson from alla dis.
;>)
Joe from Massachusetts

 maybe all dat polenta an grappa makes da teet stick tagedda.
We build houses with polenta here.
[...]
Bye, FB
-- 
Oggetto: Guido, i' vorrei che tu e Lapo ed io. Fossimo presi per
incantamento.
Incantato s'è incantato.
(pecora nera su it.cultura.libri)

 We build houses with polenta here.
We shower with tomato puree instead down here.
-- 
Enrico C
"Spock, beam him up!"

 We shower with tomato puree instead down here.
Oh really?
Here in Romagna we use piadinas as plates, so that at the end of a meal, if 
we're not satisfied with what we have eaten, we can still eat something 
good.
Tschüss,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
--
"There are only two kinds of people who really are fascinating - people who 
know absolutely everything, and people who know absolutely nothing." (Oscar 
Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray)