Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Sentence composition

Is English really so strict?
Suppose you are given sentence fragments and are asked to restore the 
original sentence.
She arrived (this morning, at 6 o'clock)
=> She arrived at 6 o'clock this morning.
He has been sitting (for ten minutes, quite quietly, on that chair)
=> He has been sitting quite quietly on that chair for ten minutes.
You must read your books (in the library, quietly)
=> You must read your books quietly in the library.
The concert was received (well)
=> The concert was received well.
Kiuhnm

 Is English really so strict?
I don't get your point

 I don't get your point
I reckon he's referring to the order of the complements in the sentences he 
has given. In most grammar books there's a chapter about the order of all 
complements, but I for one have never studied it, as it becomes rather 
intuitive when you get more familiar with the language.
Tschau,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
-- 
Five by five. 

 rather intuitive when you get more familiar with the language.
In particular, I'd like to know whether or not some of those sentences 
could be ordered in different ways.
Kiuhnm

 could be ordered in different ways.
See that something was missing? :)

> The concert was received well.
"Well received" is a standard phrase, therefore:
The concert was well received.
So, for the most part, the answer to your question is "Not always."
(I'm sorry that's not very definitive or assuring.)
As Enrico pointed out, the more familiar you are with the language, the 
easier it will be for you to phrase things in ways that sound natural.
-- 
Disclaimer:
My goal in posting here is to provide readers with
acceptable, viable, correct examples of how an
American speaks day-to-day English; how to sound
like an average person, not a great work of literature
or someone who speaks like a grammar book. jdwd

 could be ordered in different ways.
Fai come faccio io quando scrivo in italiano, seleziono le parole e col 
mouse comincio a spostarle avanti e indietro cercando una giusta 
collocazione, a volte per interi minuti, provando tutte le combinazioni. 
Qualsiasi ordine mi sembra dubbio, quando si stanca il dito che tiene il 
pulsante del mouse mollo li' la parola, dopo aver scritto alcune righe, 
faccio un altro paio di cambiamenti e decido che e' il modo migliore. (lo 
faccio anche quando scrivo nei NG, spesso con esiti comici).
Non so se l'inglese e' rigoroso, ma ti assicuro che l'italiano e' un caos 
sull'ordine delle parole!
ciao, Janis 

 easier it will be for you to phrase things in ways that sound natural.
Yes, I must still grok it.
Kiuhnm

 sull'ordine delle parole!
I really wouldn't know...
Kiuhnm

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Thank you for giving me a couple of chuckles!
I hope you didn't score an incorrect answer for No. 1, because your version 
is certainly correct, too.
I'm sure that, when you say you really HATE these exercises, what you really 
mean is that you really LOVE them.
("That which does not kill us makes us strong.")
As for grokking anything, (heh heh) does anyone do that any more? :-)
Even so, "I must still grok it" is off the chart of compatibility.
("What does he mean?" you ask?) Only this:
"Grok" is so stylized and slangy that it doesn't fit with "I must."
It goes better with something like "I gotta."
It's vaguely similar to saying, perhaps, something like
"Oh dear! I fear I must take a huge dump!"
("I need to use the toilet/loo/rest room.")
Trust me on this one. I'm an expert in this area. :-)
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I wouldn't really know...
Really, I wouldn't know...
I wouldn't know, really...
Know? Me? Not really...
What, Me Worry? :-)
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 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:46293e0b$0$37204$4faf...@reader3.news.tin.it...
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Humm, io voto per really dopo wouldn't ;)
ciao, Janis 

 What, Me Worry? :-)
Oh my! Avrei dovuto immaginarlo che mi avresti preceduto e da par tuo.
(che ho scritto?)
ciao, Janis 

 What, Me Worry? :-)
That's strange. Mr. Google seems to be undecided.
Kiuhnm

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Always take Mr. Google (and above all, Mr. Wikipedia) cum grano salis.
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 Trust me on this one. I'm an expert in this area. :-)
I didn't know it was considered slangy.
Have a look here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/8400/Heinlein-Robert-A-Stranger-In-a-Strange-Land?page=478
(please wait...)
Kiuhnm

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Ok, so the "self-proclaimed expert" (who was really referring to his 
expertise in bathroom humor) would like to correct himself:
"Slang" is too strong; Informal is better, but furthermore, the word was 
*coined* by Heinlein in that very same work, in the early 60s. It was 
intended to be a bit slangy, IMHO.
Don't misunderstand: your original sentence wasn't wrong; it made me smile 
(not laugh out loud) because it had a certain charm in its juxtaposition of 
two very different modes of speech in the same sentence: one formal, one very 
informal.
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 Always take Mr. Google (and above all, Mr. Wikipedia) cum grano salis.
Ok, thank you for helping improve my English!
I really HATE you! ;-)
Kiuhnm

 intended to be a bit slangy, IMHO.
I would've never expected that "grok" had entered the common language.
The word "grok" is supposed to be Martian. I don't know if that makes it 
informal :-)
My intention was to make an erudite quote!
Kiuhnm

 Humm, io voto per really dopo wouldn't ;)
Thank you.
Kiuhnm

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Martians have slang words, too! ;-)
As for "common", it's really only common in the generations or culture of 
Sci-Fi that embraces Heinlein, I would say. I remember my friends briefly 
adopting the term (my MUCH OLDER friends, of course!) in the 60s. Once in a 
while one of them will use it now, mostly for humor. Or nostalgia.
You did. (Make an erudite quote, that is. It made me smile, for the same 
reason that I smiled when I heard my 75-year-old Russian teacher, a native 
from what was Leningrad [at the time] extol exuberantly "He's a *nice guy!*" 
referring to an esteemed physician from the community.)
She was quite a proper Russian Grande Dame, of sorts. Grande Dames (to *my* 
knowledge, anyway) don't say things like "He's a nice guy!"
And the doctor being referred to was a revered figure. Hardly a "guy."
Anyway, smiling is good for you/me/everyone, so thanks.
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 referring to an esteemed physician from the community.)
Avresti potuto dire qui "/by/ the community"? O sarebbe stato sbagliato? 

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Do you mean
"[...] referring to a physician esteemed by the community."
?
Kiuhnm

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Sure, that's what I meant, I forgot to reverse the words... 

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That's it exactly...
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 That's it exactly...
I know it sounded quite banal, but I often have some troubles with using 
propositions and, especially when I read a phrase like "I have been listening 
*from* the beginning", it gets more and more confusing...