Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Come parlo 2

http://xoomer.virgilio.it/fb83/washington1.mp3
 (871.5 Kb)
It's the beginning of "Washington Square", by Henry James.
I know that:
1) I sound gay, but I assure you that's not my voice!! (smiling face)
2) There's probably a mistake (maybe more -- it goes without saying -- but
I've found one), or at least an inconsistency, but I don't feel like trying
again.
What I'd like to know is:
Do I sound Italian to a native speaker's ear? Can you detect that I'm a
foreigner, or do I quite sound like a native speaker, posh as that native
speaker may be?
P.S. As for the "Come parlo ammeregano"... I'm working on it, never fear...
or do fear...
Bye, FB
-- 
"Qualcuno, meglio se un fidanzato, dovrebbe comunicare a Xxxxxxx Xxxxx che
scrivere libri non fa per lei. Per il suo bene (e il nostro, soprattutto)."
(Recensione di Antonio D'Orrico sul Corriere della Sera Magazine)

 1) I sound gay, but I assure you that's not my voice!! (smiling face)
Do you notice you change your voice too, while speaking English?

 speaker may be?
You mostly sound like a very elderly aristocrat, or elderly actor
of the Gielgud era.



And absolutely plausible in that role at least?
I was afraid you'd be harsher.
Bye, FB
-- 
Locked from the inside. That can only mean one thing, and I don't know what
it is.
(Murder by Death)



It's the microphone's fault. Besides, my voice comes from my throat, as it
were, not lower than that, and I do "refine" it when I switch from Italian
to English. I acquire the accent and modify the timbre a little, I think.
Bye, FB
-- 
"Hey, Mr. Gilmore. Best wish... Congrat... Nice suit!"
(Gilmore Girls - 513)

 I was afraid you'd be harsher.
It was very good. I'll have to try quite hard to find anything
at all.

 
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/fb83/washington1.mp3
 (871.5 Kb)
E' colpa del mio computer portatile e dei diffusori ad esso collegati,
o il volume della tua registrazione è estremamente basso?
Tschuess,
Enrico il Pentolaio.

or do fear...
Can you do an 'un-posh' accent? 

 Can you do an 'un-posh' accent?
Yeah, that's the point!
:-))))
Tschuess,
Enrico il Pentolaio.

 o il volume della tua registrazione è estremamente basso?
Non c'entra niente, ma non appena ho il computer nuovo (è questione di
6-7 giorni), registro la "z" romagnola, dato che avevamo lasciato in
sospeso il discorso.
:-))
Tschuess,
Enrico il Pentolaio.

 o il volume della tua registrazione č estremamente basso?
I don't know. It doesn't seem that low to me, but I was told it was the 
other time, so it might be, after all.
Ciao, FB
-- 
"While I'm here, might I make a few changes? I adore my bedroom, but do you 
think I could have my curtains washed? I believe they're red, but I should 
like to make sure."
(Cold Comfort Farm, the film)

 Can you do an 'un-posh' accent?
I think it would be easier to change completely ("come parlo ammeregano").
Bye, FB
-- 
Emily: "I'm going to Europe and I'm going to have a marvellous time. I'm 
going to get up at ten and have two glasses of wine at lunch every single 
day."
Richard: "Only prostitutes have two glasses of wine at lunch!"
(Gilmore Girls, 501)

 It doesn't seem that low to me
It doesn't to me either.

 to English. I acquire the accent and modify the timbre a little, I think.
I generally tend to whisper when I speak English on the mic.... maybe
because I'm shy,
and of course my voice changes too, the other night I recorded a message for
an american friend of
mine, (you have no idea, I had to record it by my cell phone, extract the
file with the pc and
turn that format into a wave file...) and in the end she told me "you're
mumbling", lol :)
Anyway I can't wait to record my voice... not with my mobile, I sound
gay.....but hell, that's not my voice! :)


Nor me. When I record myself the sound is very low. I have to process
it through audio remastering software to increase the volume and
reduce *some* of the hiss. I not sure if it's the £5 mic I bought from
Argos or my sound card.

I think it would be easier to change completely ("come parlo ammeregano").
I think if you stayed here for a while you'd change, if you wanted to.
BTW how could one translate "ammeregano" into English?

 BTW how could one translate "ammeregano" into English?
Merkin?
Ciao, FB
-- 
After a year of speculation, inventor Dean Kamen unveiled his mysterious
"It", which is a battery-powered two-wheel people mover. Many believe it
will completely revolutionize the way people get hit by cars.
(Saturday Night Live)

 Argos or my sound card.
a £5 mic should be a good mic, anyway try to turn the line-in volume up
from the windows audio control panel.


Brilliant - so I'll go straight to the 'buts' (which is probably what you 
really want to hear).
(A warning : this turgid attempt at helpful comment for FB probably contains 
very little of general interest; maybe not much of interest to FB either !))
There's certainly nothing which would tell me that you're Italian ; however 
, because I know you're Italian , I find it impossible to judge whether I 
would otherwise think you were a native speaker ; that is , though there are 
parts which on their own would convince me absolutely that you were English 
,there are a few elements which sound a bit strange , and I just can't say 
whether (if I didn't know who was speaking) I might think them within the 
range of the anomalies that you might find in native speakers reading aloud 
.
The 'strange' elements I'm referring to have to do , I think , with 
speed/pacing and pitch .(Since I know nothing about phonetics , my attempt 
to explain what I mean will be laboriously amateur.) It seems to me that the 
characteristic pace of English is different from that of other Eropean 
languages like Italian and Greek ; in these , syllables have a relatively 
greater parity , the difference between the stressed and the unstressed is 
less marked , whereas in English stresses tend to be more marked and often 
involve a considerable lengthening of the vowel , and unstressed vowels 
become a string of schwas (imagine a series of semi-quavers : whether played 
staccato or legato , whether they receive the beat or not , they remain 
semi-quavers ; Italian comes closer to this ; whereas an English sentence 
would typically require a greater range of note values , the stresses 
becoming crochets , dotted crochets or even minims) . Take a phrase like 
'the dismemberment of the corpse' - the syllables of the first noun are 
distinctly different in emphasis and length , and that of 'corpse' , 
following three very quick syllables, is much the longest and most weighted 
in the phrase ; I would expect a non-native speaker (Italian , Greek etc.) 
to reduce these distinctions , compared to an English speaker .
Whether this has any relevance to what I hear in your reading, or whether 
you were aiming to show your fluency by going fast , I don't know , but too 
fast , in places , it is - or perhaps I should say overall too regular , 
that is in certain places you don't slow down enough or place stresses 
heavily enough  ; perhaps I'm more aware of this because of the nature of 
the passage : I know it's only early James , but the reader/listener still 
has to pay proper attention , and I think the irony/humour in the whole of 
the opening decription of Dr. Soper require a more leisurely pace . To 
specifics : in the first sentence , the most obvious point is 'a physician 
who enjoyed' - much too fast ; I know the adjective clause is definitive , 
and you want to make that clear by pressing on, but maintaining a slightly 
higher pitch than otherwise does that - the key word 'physician' introduces 
the subject of the whole first chapter , and has to be allowed to make its 
impression ; but in general I'm aware of an over-regular rhythmic drive to 
the end of the sentence  which robs other words of their full value - 
perhaps even 'flourished' and 'practised' need to be relished a little 
more - maybe it's almost subliminal pauses which need introducing in a 
number of places - 'exceptional' needs more value- 'in the United States' 
needs isolating more - 'always' needs more prominence ; I'm not suggesting 
dramatic changes , but slight variations of pace , slight pauses , slightly 
more lingering stresses , etc. Listening (yet) again , I think one element 
that contributes to this sense of a relentless drive to the sentence-end is 
your use of a rising intonation at the end of clauses and even phrases , 
much more than is necessary . An obvious case is the second sentence , where 
you go up on 'honour' , which just seems wrong to me - and this whole first 
clause seems to me to illustrate the 'regularity' I've been trying to 
describe : I think 'constantly' should receive a little more stress , and 
'in America' needs isolating a little - in your reading , 'in America' seems 
just a trivial adjectival adjunct to 'profession' - but the whole of the 
first two paragraphs , whilst focussing on the doctor , also poke fun at 
specifically American attitudes to the medical profession . In the fourth 
sentence you go up on the last syllable of 'practical' , and again at the 
end of 'recommendation' ; the first clause does indeed require a rising 
intonation (anticipating a second 'source of credit') , but the whole word 
'practical' is higher in pitch , and a strong stress still falls on the 
first syllable ; but I wouldn't repeat it in the adjective clause which 
follows . In the third sentence (where , as someone else has said , 'you 
earn' become virtually one word - perhaps you just ran out of breath) the 
opposition is 'either earn...or make believe' - you stress 'earn' , but it 
needs to be lingered on more , and 'make believe' require similar emphatic 
stressing ; 'two' needs emphatic stress ,too .
I'm not sure I've made myself at all clear ; I don't really know how to 
describe the shape of a phrase when spoken - pity we can't use graphics . 
Looking back , I seem to have made a lot of criticisms , but that's not 
really so - I'm only talking about minor differences . Also , I really don't 
know whether in some of the points I make I'm just offering another opinion 
about the interpretation of the passage , rather than putting my finger on 
anything that is related to your being a non-native speaker . I just felt 
that there was an element of that lack of pronounced contrast of light and 
shade , of variation of pace and pauses , etc. ,  which I associate in a 
more obvious form with much less skilled non-native speakers . Listening one 
last time , I now feel that the most distinctive feature is the rising 
intonation at the end of phrases/sentences where I'd much more often be 
using a falling one ; but my acquaintance with spoken Italian is so 
miserably deficient that I've no idea at all whether that could in any way 
be related to Italian habits .
Mike 

 were saying one but it should have been the other.
Maybe I used the strong form of "to", and since a native speaker would have
used the weak one, you assumed I was saying "two", which has no weak form.
[...]
Bye, FB
-- 
Domanda: "Era il figlio di Iside e Osiride".
Risposta: "Thor".
(quiz televisivo)

 be related to Italian habits .
Many many thanks for your very detailed comments, which I very much
appreciate.
Bye, FB
-- 
Se dico "siedi!" manca l'oggetto.
Siedo chi? Lei o me?
(da it.cultura.linguistica.italiano)