Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: NEVERTHELESS, some of us just don't get it

 COMUNI!
(unquote)
Ahem. Overreacting and missing target too? LOL
Bye,
-- 
Isa
Work like you don't need money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no one's watching

 Ahem. Overreacting and missing target too? LOL
If I remember rightly, the original quote (can't walk and chew gum at
the same time) was directed at ex President Gerald Ford, shown in a
recent episode of the Simpsons with Homer. They both chew gum, set off
walking, and fall down.
Mary
-- 
How do you start a model-T Ford without a battery? asked Tom crankily.

Ahem. Overreacting and missing target too? LOL
Not very articulate perhaps, but what did you expect? A less asinine comment in
the future might bring you a more thoughtful response.
Sorry, but you deserve it. :--))
Without malicious intent,
Ron
USA
PS: Incidently, in my circles it's considered a slip in character to publish a
private email without someone's permission. But, all cultures have different
standards, no?

off walking, and fall down.
Actually it goes back much further than that. Unfortunately, I don't have a clue
to the origin; but it is an old insult used to cast aspersion toward anyone
against whom one might hold a nondescript prejudice about intelligence. I assume
that it is no older, no doubt, than the invention of chewing gum.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

 that it is no older, no doubt, than the invention of chewing gum.
Now you have me wondering whether the invention of walking is historically
sited before or after the invention of chewing gum. ;)
ciao,
CrawlingJanis

CrawlingJanis
If you limited your encounters to those who gave you a "pain in the neck" you
might still be walking. :--))
Affectionately,
Ron
USA

have different standards, no?
 Dear Ron,
Just for the cultural record, you might be interested to know that in my
circle, on the other hand, it is considered a slip in character to send
someone unsolicited private e-mail especially if it is in response to
something posted publicly on a news group.
As you say, paesi che vai, usanze che trovi.
--
I remain, as always,
Bambi
dtb

something posted publicly on a news group.
Thank you, Bambi, for expressing your preference because I do occasionally email
someone when the whim strikes me. I apologize for the ones I've sent to you
knowing that I had not received any invitation. You may be certain that I will
respect your wishes in the future.
Others do not have to feel the same way about emailing me. That's why I have a
return address on my posts.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

try..." - and he was believed)
Hey! Are you still upset about the time I accused you of having a polyester
pants sense of humor?!?!? :--))
Reiterating, no malice intent,
Ron
USA

 cultures have different standards, no?
Dear Ron,
There are some unfortunate individuals that use private email to be
abusive because they know it wouldn't be acceptable to the others on a
newsgroup. In that case I can see why someone may care to air the
missive. Bring light to dark corners as it were.
Although my knowledge of italian means it was all beyond me anyway. And
I hate reading things in caps.
adieu,
Loki
-- 
                 Loki
Please remove ASGARD prior to posting to my Domain.

dtb
Dear Bambi,
Both of these actions are potentially embarassing, but I think there are 
more grounds for someone objecting to his private e-mail being published 
in a world-wide forum.
Responding privately to a public message is often an expression of a 
desire for increased intimacy, and many net-friendships begin this way.
Naturally it is a nuisance to the party which does not want this but,
as they say, chi non risica non rosica.
On the other hand, private communications (for a similar reason) often
contain priveleged information that the writer has deemed one worthy
of knowing. Publishing that information could be seen as a betrayal
of that trust. 
I don't think cultural differences are really the issue here. I'm sure
that personality factors are at work. To my personality, unwanted
overtures to intimacy are less offensive than betrayals of trust.
Ciao, 
Raymot
[[[[[[[[[[[

Whoa!
let's recap the whole thing from my biased point of view.
Madame X writes a joke about the american people.
*I take it* she did not endorse that point of view, and that the way it
had to be read was: "hell, I'm Italian, but my love for the English
culture is so deep that I can pretend to be a Brit and pull that
American leg of yours"
Mr X, also Italian (and despite his European sense of humour) clearly
does not agree with the biased opinion above, and thinks that Madame X
is paving the road to WWIII. The whole planet is at risk, and it is
mandatory to make Madame X aware of that.
He shouts a little bit while doing it. Not a very gentelmanly behaviour,
but the stakes are high.
Madame X finds the thing amusing and wants to share the fun with the
other people of the group.
*My biased opinion* is that she should strip (giusto? stavo per scrivere
she should have strip) the sender's address before posting to the group.
Mr Y, American and thus with a different kind of humour
(
I remember a thread about the lack of...what was that? It was part of
Beppe Severgnini's article about when he was in the US and when asked
"Are you a famous writer?" he replied "not at all, I'm just giving it a
try..." - and he was believed
)
points out that the joke may not sound very funny to American ears.
This is informative, and perfectly in topic. He also expresses his
doubts about the politeness of posting private e-mail assuming, as
everyone else I guess, that the sender did not give his permission.
Madame Y, expresses her doubts about the politeness of sending private
e-mail concerning an issue of public interest, but *I take it* that it
is the tone of the e-mail that makes it unpolite and not only its not
being solicited.
Friendly e-mail is often welcome, hostile mail may be not so. (Wanna
shout? Then do it in front of everybody)
Up to this point everybody has a piece of right of their own.
From this point onward things are getting fuzzy, and it seems that the
spectre of WWIII, or at least of Cold War II, is getting its hooks into
Icling.
Do we have to witness this?
It is for posterity to judge.
cheers,
Peltio
che si scusa per il pessimo inglese, ma ha scritto di fretta.

 Madame X writes a joke about the american people.
Hey!  Hey!  Hey! You forgot to capitalize "American".  What is this? Be
mean to America week?  Don't do it again...otherwise ... 10 lashes with
a wet noodle as soon as I see you.  I'm boiling the noodle right now :))
ciao
Arianna
Sent via Deja.com 
http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

have a  return address on my posts.
Dear Ron,
You have no need to apologise for the e-mails sent to me in the past. They
were received with pleasure , as I stated, and I earnestly hope that at no
time did I make you feel I considered them invasive.
To elaborate somewhat on my last post.
Whilst I do  hold that unsolicited e-mail from total strangers is an
invasion of privacy,  as we are both followers of this group, it could be
said that we had, over the months, come to know each other a little, and as
such have established something of an relationship.
The author of the e-mail to Isabella (who as far as I can tell does not even
have the grace to include a valid return e-mail address) is not - and I am
assuming here - known to her. Furthermore his letter, written in caps,
constitutes 'shouting' and as I have mentioned elsewhere, borders on being
abusive. If he felt so strongly about the issue, he should, in my opinion,
have responded to the group where the original comment was made and not
taken his umbrage into Isabella's mailbox.
I also have a valid return e-mail address for the same reasons as you. In
the case in question, I am of the opinion the person acted in bad faith  and
suspect, as Raymot has pointed out, that it has little to do with cultural
differences.
I hope this clarifies my position a little and wish to assure you that
private e-mails from you will always, as I have said, be welcome.


 overtures to intimacy are less offensive than betrayals of trust.
Dear Ray,
In essence, I agree with you. A private e-mail in response to a public
message can often be an
expression of wanting to establish a level of intimacy, and it is for the
party who has received such  a correspondence to determine whether or not
they wish to pursue the correspondence. And again, in essence I also concur
that private e-mail can contain information of a privileged nature and
publishing such a letter could constitute a betrayal of trust.
I did not in fact express an opinion on this particular matter.
But to the specific case in point. The e-mail that Isabella published could
hardly be interpreted as a desire for wanting to establish a more intimate
relationship, nor could the author assume the information contained within
it to be kept confidential. This because;  he does not know the
recipient;  the tone he chose to adopt in his letter;  he was
replying to something  which up until then had been in the public domain.
Furthermore, his e-mail was bordering on being abusive.
Being as it was specifically in response to a general comment posted
publicly (with which the author clearly did not agree) did not entitle him -
in my opinion of course - to invade Isabella's mailbox and when he did so,
Isabella was - still in my opinion  - fully entitled to return the
matter back to the public forum.
It has, as you say little to do with cultural differences, and I was merely
responding to Ron's inference to perhaps that being the case.
I am in full agreement with you also that  'unwanted
overtures to intimacy are less offensive than betrayals of trust'.
I do not however, believe the case in question falls within this
sphere.


 As you say, paesi che vai, usanze che trovi.
Isn't that the same as "When in Rome do as the Romans do." ? BTW, just
what do the Romans do (or did if we're talking ancient ones)   :-)
ciao,


 polyester pants sense of humor?!?!? :--))
I can imagine no Italian male or anyone long upon their shores, wearing
polyester. 'La bella figura' will see to that :-) (does that gets
masculinzed or stay the same?) 
I of course never got to stay long enough for any fashion sense to be
absorbed.
I have to hope I have understood my idiom correctly and not cast
dispersions upon anyone. I did say my sole exercise is leaping as in:
leaping where angels fear to tread.


 Arianna
Will it be 'al dente'? 


 che si scusa per il pessimo inglese, ma ha scritto di fretta.
Dear Peltio,
I wish I could write half as eloquently in Italian. Irony is that word
you were looking for.
ciao,
Loki
"It won't be me pressing the clothes."she said ironically. 


dispersions upon anyone.
For the benefit of people who visit here to learn English (let's hope they are
not discouraged from participating in the future), let me point out that the
correct phrase is "cast aspersions." One can also disperse castings--using
"casting" as a noun for the residue left by worms--but I don't suppose you meant
to say that.
Ciao,
Ron
USA
PS: I suggest that you don't read the "polyester pants" comment so literally. I
believe that Peltio, with his self-acknowledged loyalist bias, otherwise
perceives peoples` real intent in humor.

pants sense of humor?!?!? :--))
Remember,
I don't pull legs
I pay people to break them.
Il Peltrino
: )

a wet noodle as soon as I see you.  I'm boiling the noodle right now
:))
Just wondering...
ever tried to boil noodles in chinotto?
cheers,
Peltio

,

No, I usually boil them in human blood.
Bye
Leonarda Cianciulli (AKA Arianna)
PS: still want me at the raduno?


as such have established something of an relationship.
Bambi, your unflagging loyalty to a friend is an admirable quality, but I must
tell you that I have seen such clinging abused before in some of the larger
issues in life. Therefore, I soften it with the belief that gentle but
appropriate criticism of behavior of a friend, even if that person has zero
tolerance for such, is a higher virtue, whatever the consequences.
I think we can agree that the initial post was obviously not a spam, but an
on-topic request from someone who was making an initial attempt to relate to the
newsgroup, however basic you might consider it. Let's put aside the artifice of
sharing amusement and recognize that the publishing of that private email,
whether the motivation was to publicly ridicule or to enlist support to exclude
someone who had clumsily bruised an ego, was ...... Well, the adjectives should
remain unspoken except to say "not justifiable."
Sincerely,
Ron
USA

 try..." - and he was believed
uhmm si, ma parlava di understatement tra britannici ed americani. La sua
risposta perfettamente corretta in un salotto londinese lo aveva fatto
apparire uno "scribacchino" a Washinton
(E deduco pertanto sia il libro sulla sua permanenza la con la moglie)

USA
Where I come from we cast nasturtiums upon people (or at least we did
in primary school)
Raymot
[[[[[[[

PS: still want me at the raduno?
Yes, of course.
But I will not give you my phone number.
cheers,
Peltio

 loyalist bias, otherwise perceives peoples` real intent in humor.
It's my own sense of humour, perhaps it is too dry ;-) I think deadpan
may be similar.
ciao,
loki


 wrote in message
sdvrg56...@corp.supernews.com...


Dear Ron,
Let us rather agree that we disagree on this matter and each hold our own
different viewpoints on such. We each have our own idea as to the
motivations which led the original writer of the letter to send it to
someone's private e-mail account,  the subsequent posting to the newsgroup
of the private letter received as well as my posting with regard to the
issue in general.
The world - and this newsgroup - is surely large enough to accommodate both
of our viewpoints?
--
I remain, as always, ecc., ecc.,
Bambi
dtb

 what do the Romans do (or did if we're talking ancient ones)   :-)
Dear Loki,
I believe it is the same. As for what it is Romans do or did.....
'.....eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you may die?'
--
I remain, as always,
Bambi
dtb

 Do we have to witness this?
Dear Peltio,
The undersigned thanks you for your timely observations. Your point is well
noted and the idea of The Illuminated Realm having to witness the spectre of
WWIII or at least of Cold War II not worthy of us.
Indeed it should not be witnessed and I will do what I can to ensure that
the abovementioned doomsday scenario does not come to pass.
With thanks again, worthiest of K.I.S.A.,


 overtures to intimacy are less offensive than betrayals of trust'.
Spero non sia cattiva educazione proseguire in italiano.
Se è così... ditemelo che proverò a tradurre.
Il tema mi sta a cuore perché sono uno di quelli che ha commesso
l'errore di pubblicare su NG una lettera ricevuta in privato. Sapevo che
non era considerato corretto farlo, ma l'ho fatto comunque con buone
intenzioni. Tuttavia la reazione dell'interessato e di altri del NG fu
violentissima: fui definito nientemeno che "mostro". La situazione è
abbastanza diversa da quella da voi descritta. Ero arrivato "ai ferri
corti" (magari un giorno capirò anche l'origine di questa espressione)
con un partecipante del NG che mi accusava di essere un incompetente e
di scrivere stupidaggini senza documentarmi. Ovviamente ritenevo non
fosse vero e quindi facevo di tutto per dimostrare ogni cosa. Ad un
certo punto, per smascherare una bugia pubblica scritta sul mio conto,
pubblicai una sua lettera amichevole a me indirizzata. Quella lettera
risaliva all'inizio della sua partecipazione al NG ed esprimeva solo
positivi apprezzamenti verso di me. Tutto il contrario di quanto
falsamente sosteneva su NG. Era quindi una lettera che non conteneva
informazioni riservate, né qualcosa che normalmente l'autore vuole tener
nascosto: ovvero complimenti, non insulti. Eppure, come dissi, la
reazione fu di totale condanna. Così chiesi scusa. Avevo fatto qualcosa
che nel caso specifico, nella situazione specifica ritenevo (e ritengo)
opportuno fare. Ma era qualcosa che andava contro le regole
universalmente accettate dalla società. La regola generale difficilmente
si piega o si adatta al caso specifico. Ecco quindi come succede che una
bugia ha diritto di essere pubblicata mentre la prova che la smentisce
non ha pari diritto.
-- 
____________________________________
Giancarlo Pillan  -  Ivrea  -  Italy
____________________________________

uhmm si, ma parlava di understatement tra britannici ed americani.
saluti,
Peltio

 did in primary school)
We just nibbled them. Is that the difference between Sydney and Brisbane
childhoods? :-)))
see ya later,
Loki