Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: American and British English

Hello Everyone,
Excuse me writing this in English.  I studied Italian many years ago 
and now it's really not that good.  I can still read it but writing 
is more difficult.
Anyway, I teach English at University in the UK and Arriana's 
postings have reminded me of the many differences between British and 
American English.  'Varieties of English' is one of the subjects I 
teach and I would be interested in your views on this.  Have you made 
a decision to study one variety, if so, which and why?  Perhaps 
contributors from the USA and Britain would be interested in posting 
what they consider are the differences. I'm sure many would find it 
an interesting discussion.
-- 
 David 
 
Reply to:   
bar...@zetnet.co.uk

an interesting discussion.
I for one would very much.
Ciao
Isa

Thank you Isa for your response and my congratulations on your use of 
English.  I'm impressed.
Perhaps some students of English are not aware of the quite 
significant differences between American and British English, (there 
are of course many other varieties of English throughout the world 
and within English speaking countries).  The differences include 
every aspect of the language: spelling, vocabulary, pronunciation, 
idioms, sentence structure, etc.  These differences can be a problem 
for native English speakers as well as those who have English as a 
foreign language. 
Spelling differences are not a major problem but vocabulary can be, 
as can idioms. Some of these differences can lead to embarrassing 
mistakes and sometimes even worse.  If you travel to the UK or US 
make sure you are aware of these differences and have the appropriate 
dictionary:)
I have my own experiences of completely misunderstanding American 
colleagues.  Asking someone for a rubber in the UK means you want to 
erase pencil marks; in the US it is a condom!  I was told by a 
colleague "I had lucked out".  I thought this meant I was 
unfortunate, whereas it means exactly the opposite.
Another question I would like to ask is whether there are accents in 
English which Italian speakers find more attractive than others and 
if so, which and can you explain why?


Lords of the NewsGroup have a <tag> for that, too.
Yes, there are differences in spelling, vocabulary, and word choice, and
there are as many differences (not including spelling) within each country.
I suppose we all strive to learn first the standard "television news"
dialect for whatever language we study. When comparing these (BBC to CNN)
the differences are small and should only be a concern to a very advanced
English language student like yourself.
I have less trouble (none in fact) listening to BBC English than to the
English spoken in the Southern States. And Italian,,, well, I can understand
only a few scattered words when listening to R.A.I. broadcasts.
Ciao,
Ron
USA

if so, which and can you explain why?
As far as I'm concerned, spelling differences *are* an issue: I have built
my listening skills by collecting dozens (scores?) of american movies
of the 40's, and by hours and hours of CNN sessions.
At present I can understand fairly well American English
(even if Texan is a world aside, Australian and Canadian are not much
of a problem) but "the Brits", oh my! , they are far beyond my reach.
It seems *to me* that the undivisible unit of the British accent is the
sentence, not the word. The best accent so far is , for my personal taste,
Californian. I find more difficult to follow the southern accents of the
U.S. and the British (cockney?) accent which proudly lay on top of my black
list.
This is, I think, a consequence of my uneducated training, since when I
attended school I found American harder than "pure" English.
The result is that now I speak much more like Humphrey Bogart and John
Wayne(*) alternating evenly 'fiber' with 'fibre' and 'rationalize' with
'rationalise' when I write.
In conclusion:
Yes, I think that it would be highly interesting having contributions
from the USA and Britain to discuss those differences. I'm sure the
Lords of the NewsGroup have a <tag> for that, too.
Now, I better cool my keyboard and rest my fingers.
Scusa la lunghezza.
Saluti,
Peltio
peltio AT usa DOT net
(symbolise (or symbolize) to e DASH mail me)
Note(*)
this is not as exciting as it might at first seem.
Imagine asking for an eraser by yelling (hands on your hips,
ready to draw):
"Hey podner! Gimme that rubber or I'll bust ya!!!"

I understand that spelling differences between American and British 
English must be a problem for students of English.  English spelling 
is difficult enough without this added complication.
Britain is particularly rich in regional accents and dialects.  It is 
possible to place someone's origin to within 20 miles or so and often 
very much less, based purely on their accent/dialect.  This degree of 
variation in pronunciation and vocabulary, whilst of enormous 
interest to people like me, must present problems for many overseas 
visitors to the UK.  I'm sure many people who understand Standard 
British English perfectly well have been confused by what they have 
heard in the regions of the UK.  In fact I know of people from the 
States who have been confused by this:)
Anyone had this experience?


 Anyone had this experience?
Yep. I remeber the first time I went to the UK, ages ago...having 
problems to understand people from Lancashire (west-side) and the Black 
country...:-) I can understand them but it is still funny to liisten to 
them :-)
ciao,
a.
 

if so, which and can you explain why?
Let's talk "understandable", rather than attractive... personally, I do
understand my Welsh friend Heidi much better than any Londoner, and I
understand US Southerners better than I do Northerners. But I cannot say I
have extensive experience either way. Travelling in England and Wales has
never been a problem so far, but I've never been to either Scotland or
Ireland, and I'd be only too happy to try my comprehension skills "oup
there".
Thanks again
Ciao
Isa

sentence, not the word.
David, do you see? How can you make sense of all this, as Peltio and I are
both Italians (or so much I gather), and it's exactly the opposite for me? I
*lurve* and understand Brit English well, not so Am English. I think it all
depends on some kind of imprinting we receive when we first dip our nose
into the craziest, funniest, loveliest of languages (apart from my own).
Ciao to both
Isa

Anyone had this experience?
Oh yeah! I went to Cumbria a couple of years ago and I truly felt like
a non native English speaker. I couldn't laugh at their jokes and, on
the top of that, I had them teasing me about my pronunciation all the
time. I can remember them bursting with laughter when I said the word
"funny" with my american accent, and, at my bewilderment, they
informed my I had just said a swear word! No need to say I tried hard
not to use that word again! : )
Janis
USA

 USA
You make a couple of interesting observations here.  The dialects of 
the north still show the influence of Scandinavian languages which 
arrived with the Vikings.  In the south the influence of French 
following the Norman invasion was much stronger.  There is therefore 
quite a difference to this day between the dialects of these two 
areas of the country.  Many Old English words which have disappeared 
from the south can still be heard in northern dialects.  
Pronunciation is also markedly different.  
The other point you make reminds me of the differences between Am. 
and Br. English.  The word you refer to,(f*nny), is not used in 
polite society in the UK but is perfectly OK in the US as it means 
something different.  Should we start a list of words to be careful 
of?  It could be a long list:)
David
Reply to: 
bar...@zetnet.co.uk

of?  It could be a long list:)
Please do so.
In a new thread, perhaps. I'm sure it will be interesting and instructive.
Peltio
peltio at usa dot net

into the craziest, funniest, loveliest of languages (apart from my own).
Now, this is intriguing: what makes an accent more appealing than others?
It would be interesting to know whether that depends upon the dialect we are
used to in our own mother-tongue - some sort of "cross-language" affinity
(to cadence, sonority and the such) - or if it is just a matter of training
and/or personal taste.
When I say "cross-language" I really mean it in a broad way. As a matter of
fact there are dialects which are similar in grammar, structure and
pronounce to foreign langauges, due to past historical influences (the
dialect of Milan is similar to French, that of Genoa to Portuguese...). So
no wonder there may be affinities in this sense.
I was wondering, though, if there is a higher level affinity with languages
utterly different from one's own. (Maybe no language is "utterly" disjointed
from any other, I must confess my deep ignorance on the subject).
Is this remotely possible (any statistics ever done? I guess not)
or is it just a thought I had under the effect of my heavy addiction to
i.c.l.i ?
Saluti,
Peltio
peltio at usa dot net
P.S.
Uno scatolone di scuse ad Isa se dovessi averla messa in imbarazzo. ; )

 *lurve* and understand Brit English well, not so Am English.
Same for me. I'm particularly fond of Edinburgh's accent - though maybe I
should be more precise, uhm, well, ok, Pennicuik, is that precise enough?
(Pentlands I think is called the region).
Anna

...

Any broad-shouldered, blue-eyed, gently freckled Scotsman's accent, to be
even MORE precise? :-)
Ciao
Isa
Love makes the world go round
(Madonna)

Uno scatolone di scuse ad Isa se dovessi averla messa in imbarazzo. ; )
Maddeché. Mi diverto un sacco e una sporta.
Baci
Isa

 even MORE precise? :-)
Nay. My friend (let me stress this - *friend*) was nothing of the above.
Blue-eyed, yes, red-haired, yes, ghostly pale, and, well, not exactly
broad-shouldered... But, what an accent! "I'm goin into tooon tonight".
Anyway, I ended up with the Spanish version (blue-eyed, black-haired, ehr not
exactly broad-shouldered, but what an accent! "E'ta cerveza me gu'ta mucho!"
Anna

only a few scattered words when listening to R.A.I. broadcasts.
This is the major difficult in learning a foreign language...
You have to hear and hear again, even if you can't understand anything...
"There will come a day" in which you turn on your TV and will understand almost everything !!!
--
Er Roscio.

The question of accents is one that I am particularly interested in.  
In the UK there are many different accents; some of which are 
considered more attractive than others.
Research has shown that the attractiveness of accents (to English 
speakers at least) is not a linguistic judgement but is based on 
associations individuals have with that accent.  For example, accents 
from industrial areas are amongst those considered least attractive.  
Accents from rural areas are often considered amongst the most 
attractive.  It is more complicated than this though.  Certain 
qualities are attached to accents.  An RP (Received Pronunciation) 
accent may be considered 'intelligent' but lacking in friendliness, 
for example.  Whereas an accent from Yorkshire might be considered 
friendly and honest.  An illustration of this is the use of regional 
accents in TV advertising to sell a product.  People are more 
receptive to regional accents than RP as they believe the voice to be 
more honest.  A few years ago only RP was heard on TV and radio.
Perhaps Isabella's fondness for Scottish accents relates to a past 
experience or association:)  I find a female Edinburgh accent 
irresistible and I still remember why.
Certainly the RP accent is considered the prestige accent in the UK 
but I would imagine that in the US it would be viewed negatively as 
'stuffy' and 'snobbish'.  Would anyone care to comment?  Similarly 
the New York accent carries with it many of the negative associations 
of the 'big city' to UK ears.
Re. differences in vocabulary: 
There are a couple of sites on the net that have done a much better 
job of this than I could.  The expression is 'Why re-invent the wheel'?
They are both good but the first one has some humour to it and 
includes rude words as well:)
They are: 
http://www.effingpot.com
 
http://pages.prodigy.com/NY/NYC/britspk/main.html
I'm happy to help if you want to check anything you find on these 
sites or need further explanation.  Both are very comprehensive lists 
of the differences in vocabulary.  The second one contains words no 
longer used in everyday speech.
 Sorry for the long post.


"There will come a day" in which you turn on your TV and will understand
almost everything !!!
Forse, allora sapero' che studiavo l'italiano troppo invece di migliorare la
mia competenza nel pensiero critico!
Ciao,
Ron
USA
imparare italiano lentamente

almost everything !!!
A me questo, con la RAI, non č ancora successo.
Ha gjj,
Peltio
P.S. (Per Ron):
"RAI" č piů usato di R.A.I., nonostante si tratti di un acronimo e sia
corretto come lo hai scritto tu. Come C.N.N.
"Saprň" e non saperň. E il troppo lo sposterei subito dopo il verbo:
"Forse, allora sapro' che studiavo troppo l'italiano, invece di migliorare
la mia competenza nel pensiero critico!"
Ad essere pignoli, quel "che studiavo" non mi convince molto. Ma qui rischio
di scoprire la mia abissale ignoranza anche in Italiano. Nelle forme
colloquiali ci sta tutto, č vero...
A conservative approach might be: "Forse, allora sapro' di aver studiato
troppo l'italiano..."
A risentirci.

mia competenza nel pensiero critico!
Ehehehe...
Grazie delle correzioni. Ciao.
--
Er Roscio.

 USA
Perche' "they informed *my* " ?
Ciao.
Giovanni

Perche' "they informed *my* " ?
ROFL! Non me ne ero nemmeno accorta! A volte scrivo, cancello,
riscrivo...e mi dimentico qualche parola della frase prima. Era "me"
ovviamente. sorry
Janis (secondo errore in inglese, al terzo mi cacciate via?)
USA (errori in italiano pochi...mi sto italianizzando sempre piu`)

"There will come a day" in which you turn on your TV and will understand almost everything !!!
e' questa una delle mie piu' recondite speranze.....
ciao
Lelio La Fauci 
ICQ 1680211
e' gradita la risposta ANCHE in email....