Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: new approaches to English teaching

What do you think about John Sloan? He's the author of "Instant English" 
and "English in viaggio", two books for Italians who want to learn 
English. Here you can listen to his colorful presentation of his book 
"English in viaggio":
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhZ7_k-6IL0
 
I think he has some good ideas, but I'm a little taken aback by some of 
his methods. For instance, he prefers italianized phonetic symbols to 
the more precise IPA, his point being that nobody - himself included, by 
his own admission - knows IPA.
I believe that's the wrong way to go. It'd be better to teach IPA along 
the way and then rely on it.
Bringing humor and comic relief to teaching is a great idea, because it 
makes the "lessons" more entertaining and memorable, but I find hard to 
believe some of his anectodes. For instance, I don't believe that most 
Italians would make fools of themselves by pronouncing "the sheets on 
the beach" the wrong way. I think he's just making that up!
I noticed a contradiction in Joan's words that baffles me. He says that 
pronunciation and grammar are not so important as long as you're able to 
get your meaning across, and yet he warns you that if you say "vindov" 
instead of "window" or mispronounce the vowel in "work", he'll stop 
talking to you and pretend he doesn't know you. Contradictions aside, 
how can he teach the right pronunciation of "work" in the book without IPA?
He does have some funny ways of identifying sounds such as "the sound 
you make at the dentist's", "the sound you make when you're dying" 
(yeah, that's not funny at all), etc..., but then no phonetic symbols 
are devised for them. If you have a look at one of Joan's books, you'll 
come across things like
   juice (gius),
   window (uindou),
   six (six)
   tired (taied)
   sad (sad)
   happy (h*eppi)      (* means "h aspirata")
In my opinion, that's horrible!
So, all in all, I think John Sloan brings new energy to the process of 
teaching and learning English, but I don't trust some of his unorthodox 
methods completely. Maybe I'm just being a little conservative here.
 
Kiuhnm

 methods completely. Maybe I'm just being a little conservative here.
 
If you think that the "i" and "ee" sounds are not a problem (because they 
are not for you), and if you know how to perfectly pronounce any English 
sound just by reading the corresponding phonetic symbols, then you probably 
do not need JPS's lessons, because your English is already better than that.
 

 whereas they are very distinct sounds for English ears.
 
I mean for English speakers :)
 

 what they stand for.
 
Honestly, the alternative to not using phonetic symbols is not that of 
"just showing some phonetic symbols". IPA symbols should be introduced 
along the way and they should serve as labels to fix the new sounds as 
you learn them. Labels are important because they help you fix concepts 
and ideas. It's difficult for ideas to exist if we can't attach some 
labels to them.
 
Kiuhnm

 or a good book or video.
 
Getting to pronounce correctly a sound that does not exist in your own 
language is something that requires examples, explanations, exercise... The 
knowledge of how a sound is transcribed can help you when you look up 
dictionaries,  I will not deny that, but I guess it is not the key to 
learning proper English pronunciation for those who tend to use Italian 
sounds instead.

The "sound you make at the dentist's" is a label too, and one that most 
people already are familiar with. Therefore, it might turn out to be more 
effective, as a teching device, than the obscure "Schwa"! :) 
 

 more effective, as a teching device, than the obscure "Schwa"! :)
 
Long labels are a bit cumbersome, though :)
Anyway, English sounds are easy to teach: right after I had my wisdom 
teeth removed I exhibited a perfect American pronunciation, but 
eventually the effects of the anesthesia faded away.
 
Kiuhnm

 get your meaning across,...
 
Part way through your post you began referring to John as Joan, but I 
still got your meaning.

John *Peter* Sloan! :)
 
If you miss "Peter" you can survive, but don't sonorize the starting
"s" of Sloan or you're going to die... He will kill you ;-)
 
I also noticed the same contraddiction: sometimes "it's enough not to
say a word instead of another", some other "this sound horrible" "no
one will ever talk to you if..." (even if there's no doubt about the
word).
 
 
-- 
Ci sono 10 tipi di persone al mondo: quelle che capiscono il sistema binario
e quelle che non lo capiscono.

 word).
 
Depends!
English is spoken is so many parts of the world with different accents, so 
it can be said that often "it's enough not to say a word instead of 
another", and don't worry too much if you sound like a foreigner, which you 
are anyway!
On the other hand, a very slight (slight to our ears, but huge to English 
earis) misspronunciation  can sometimes get in the way of comprehnsion, or 
sound "horrible", or ridicolous...
So I don't see that as a contraddiction :)
 


LOL. I didn't even know that's a female name!
 
Kiuhnm

 Kiuhnm
 
Does "Baez" ring a bell? :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZWgQp-HOLY
 


Nope. Not my kind of music.
 
Kiuhnm

 So I don't see that as a contraddiction :)
 
I don't see any real problem of comprehension with "sleep at night" 
pronounced with a voiced 's'. And yet he thinks it's *horrible*. And 
what about the 'r' sound? A rhotic 'r' may not be pretty to hear, but, 
again, I don't see any real problem.
 
Kiuhnm

 don't see any real problem.
 
Does JPS really *insist* on the "r" sound, or is it just an occasional 
remark among many others? I guess *any* English course will tell Italians to 
mind their r's, as they are so conspicuos to English ears! :)
 
As to "sleep at night", maybe a native speaker could shed light on that. 
 

 As to "sleep at night", maybe a native speaker could shed light on that.
 
Better not: today's a hard day for me.
 
Kiuhnm


Better not: *tomorrow*'s a hard day for me.
 
Anyway one should need some good sleep either before or after a hard day.
 
Kiuhnm

 Kiuhnm
 
Ciao, Alessandro
 
-- 
 
questo articolo e` stato inviato via web dal servizio gratuito 
http://www.newsland.it/news
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ab...@newsland.it
 
 
 

 internazionale anche meno.
 
Ma sě, č chiaro che Sloan si rivolge alla massa, in effetti. I miei sono 
giudizi dati da una persona che č disposta a impare l'IPA e leggere 
libri di pronuncia pur di migliorare il proprio inglese il piů 
possibile. L'italiano medio non č certamente cosě motivato.
 
Kiuhnm

 terms which haven't been approved by an official committee?
 
Yeah. I have heard of people who were fined, and even arrested and 
tortured because of that.
 

The Squash Delivery Boy ha scritto:

Ma no! Di solito si limitano a scorticare vivi gli svizzeri francesi in
gita, perché dicono Septante, Huitante, Nonante ;)


 As to "sleep at night", maybe a native speaker could shed light on that.
 
I would not use the word "horrible" to describe a voiced "s" in "sleep," 
but to the ear of a native speaker a voiced "s" in that location sounds 
like a "z" and could easily make the word incomprehensible. It's a 
matter of what you're accustomed to hearing. I am not as sensitive as 
are most Italians to hearing a single "n" in the word "anno."
 
 

Tony the Ice Man, 04:46, domenica 10 giugno 2012:

I remember an interview with Buster Keaton in which he recalled
that when he arrived in Genoa in the port there was a great
crowd saluting him "BOOSTER! BOOSTER!"
 
 
-- 
"Object-oriented programming is an exceptionally bad idea which
could only have originated in California."
                -- Edsger Dijkstra 
 


Toubon law.
 
http://miun.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:225323/FULLTEXT01
 
...
. English loanwords by committees and if not respected, fines and 
sanctions are being imposed.
 
-- 
-- Just my 2 cents

 crowd saluting him "BOOSTER! BOOSTER!"
 
In a similar vein, here's a Korean teacher giving English lessons. But 
you have to be 18 or older to watch it.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDFogjXdIVc
 
 

 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDFogjXdIVc
 
 
oh.dear.god.
 
-- 
Joey from New York
Among those whom I like or admire, I can findï¿œno common denominator,
but among thoseï¿œwhom I love, I can: all of them make me laugh.
ï¿œ ï¿œ-- WH Auden
 


ROTFL
 
Kiuhnm

 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDFogjXdIVc
 
 
 
No more English-teaching fun from South Korea! :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0T6uEEpiuQ
 


LOL!!!!!!