Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: modi di dire

Salve a tutti
dove posso trovare un dizionario online specializzato nei modi di dire 
inglesi e possibilmente confrontati con l'italiano? o anche non propriamente 
modi di dire, anche semplici espressioni prettamente italiane che però non 
so come tradurre in inglese...
grazie
paola 



Se sono prettamente italiane, non c'è nessun motivo per cui debbano
esistere equivalenti inglesi. Non sono sicuro di aver capito, però.
Potresti fare alcuni esempi?
Ciao, FB
-- 
Locked from the inside. That can only mean one thing, and I don't know what
it is.
(Murder by Death)


non ho esempi particolari. si tratta di espressioni che in italiano hanno il 
loro significato mentre in inglese se tradotti alla lettera non vogliono 
dire niente...
per esempio se io devo dire: "a che serve"(how do you use???), oppure "mi 
secca",  oppure "proprio io/tu/egli", o ancora "la persona che si ha di piů 
cara al cuore" (scusate l'esempio ma io realmente nn so come tradurlo)(il 
riflessivo non č il mio forte)
poi dannazione come si traduce "come se"? č seguito da che forma verbale?
grazie
Paola
scusate se le cose che non so sono troppo banali... 

 poi dannazione come si traduce "come se"? è seguito da che forma verbale?
1) "Come se non avessi già troppo lavoro da fare"
    "As [if/though] I [hadn't/didn't have *] too much work to do already".
2) "Come se volesse dirmi qualcosa" 
 
    "As [if/though] she wanted to tell me something".
Morale: vai di libri, riviste, film e... dizionario. Se capisci il senso di
un'espressione, non è necessario cercarla, almeno non subito (a meno che tu
capisca che è una parolaccia... In quel caso è meglio sapere quanto è
volgare). Cerca di farla tua, di usarla. It.cultura.linguistica.inglese, e
i newsroup in genere, sono una fantastica palestra per scrivere in inglese
(nessuno si scandalizzerà) e sperimentare ciò che si è imparato.
------------------------
* Britons, just a question: is "got" required in this sentence:
"As if I hadn't (got) too much work to do already"? What if I put it into
the present:
"As if I haven't too much work to do already"?
------------------------
Ciao, FB
-- 
Mrs. Palmer, in her way, was equally angry. 'She was determined to drop his
acquaintance immediately, and she was very thankful that she had never been
acquainted with him at all'. (Jane Austen)

 debbano condividere un modo di dire.
questo è vero ma io ho bisogno di tradurre un testo dall'italiano 
all'inglese, in cui sono presenti costrutti italiani che non saprei come 
tradurre. ora il mio problema non è tradurre un modo di dire, ma sapere se 
in inglese ce n'è un altro che abbia quel significato. devo trovare il 
corrispondente a quello italiano.
grazie comunque delle risposte. se avessi bisogno mi piacerebbe continuare a 
chiedere qui.
ciao
paola 

 corrispondente a quello italiano.
Ti serve uno strumento che ti consenta di tradurre dall'italiano in inglese
idiomatico, ti occorre un dizionario. Prendi lo stesso "What's your name?":
be', in italiano diciamo "Come ti chiami?". Se ti serve sapere come si
traduce "A cosa serve?", cerchi "servire"; e cosě via.
Ciao, FB
-- 
Just as I thought. Another test that could have cost us our lives, saved
only by the fact that I am enormously well-bred.
(Murder by Death)

 should run into?"
credi che suona bene al presente:
"Why it's gotta be him that i should run into?"



Ho preso quell'esempio dal Picchi. In che senso "suona bene" al presente?
Ovviamente può essere anche al presente, anche se, forse, nella maggior
parte dei contesti sarebbe un'affermazione insolita.
Ciao, FB
-- 
Se dico "siedi!" manca l'oggetto.
Siedo chi? Lei o me?
(da it.cultura.linguistica.italiano)

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 15:45:55 GMT, Larry wrote:

"Why does it have to be him (that) I run into?"
-- 
Pear pea a chair, Ray. Core Reggie eel me oh eat alien, oh... :)
Joey DoWop, working on a temporary account.

 "Why does it have to be him (that) I run into?"
Ovvero, grammaticamente più corretto ma raramente usato, "why does it have
to be he that I run into?"
Anche l'Hazon Garzanti riporta, incorrettamente, "Era proprio lui?" -- "Was
is really him?"
(Sì, lo so, sono un pignolo)
In Inghilterra, sembra che solo ai non-madrelingue inglese venga insegnato
l'inglese corretto.
-- 
Xakero
"It's me", he said ungrammaticallay. -- vari romanzi polizieschi di Aghatha
Christie

 Christie
Io, che non sono madrelingua, lo considero errore -- usare il pronome
complemento (him, her, me etc.) -- solo se al pronome è collegata una
relativa:
"It is he who I can't bear" (<== spero che, malgrado questa frase possa
essere sgrammaticata, si capisca il concetto)
Ma altrimenti, chi dice "It is I", o "it is they"? Qualcuno può portare
citazioni che dimostrino l'uso corrente, formale o informale, nel presente
o nel passato, di simili frasi?
Ciao, FB
-- 
"Come, dear, we have already missed five, if not six, trains. To miss any
more might expose us to comment on the platform."
("The Importance of Being Earnest", Oscar Wilde)

 to be he that I run into?"
I chose "him" instead of "he" for a reason: I consider it the object of the
verb "run into", rather than the subject of "to be".
Why did I have to run into him?
I'll have to check my guide books for this, even though common usage
nowadays takes the object pronoun even in situations like the Christie's
that you cited. It's me; It's him; It's her...


 Christie
Although it would be technically grammatically correct, to say "It is
I!,  It is he!, It is she!", instead of "It's me!, It's him!, It's
her!" produces a grinding sound in my ears, and I am unable to speak
or write the "correct" phrase. Why don't we say "It is we!" instead of
"It's us!"? Has anyone ever seen or heard "It's we!" or "It is we!"?.
"Is that you boys making all that noise"? "No, it's not we!". ??????
But, I could never say "It's not us who abuse the language" instead of
the correct "It's not we who abuse the language".  Just as a Frenchman
finds it natural to say "C'est moi", and abhorrent to say "C'est je",
and an Italian cannot be coerced into saying "Sono me" (but inevitably
says "son mi" in "dialeto"), some linguistic law within me forces me
to say "It's me!", even knowing that it is "incorrect", according to
the rules of grammar which I have been taught. It just doesn't sound
natural. If someone says "It is I!", it sounds theatrical, unnatural,
and forced. And why don't we say "It is we?". To say "why does it have
to be he that I run into" triggers the same alarm bell. Although one
may argue the "correctness" of the nominative, the almost universal
use of the accusative in written and spoken English (at least in
American English) makes this exception to the "rule" a new rule.
Consider this: "Isn't this the woman who stole your purse?". "No, it's
not her". Or, "Is this the woman who saved you?". "Yes, it is she who
saved me". Because language is at its base spoken first and written
second, what "doesn't sound right" to the vast majority of people,
because of some innate linguistic sense, is eventually replaced by
what does sound right. We can quibble about the rules, but certain
rules are broken in certain circumstances, because of the nature of
spoken language, even though we may not understand the nature of the
innate mechanism which is at work.
Joe from Massachusetts

 and an Italian cannot be coerced into saying "Sono me"
Penso che per l'italiano sia diverso. "Sono" è prima persona singolare e,
dal momento che l'italiano permette sempre di invertire soggetto e verbo
(laddove sia logico farlo), "sono io" non è nient'altro che "io sono".
Ciao, FB
-- 
L'importante è che risplenda tu, sola primadonna e immarcescibile leggenda
del tuo pianerottolo.
(Lucangel su it.cultura.libri)

 (laddove sia logico farlo), "sono io" non č nient'altro che "io sono".
Perciň se in italiano si usasse un verbo impersonale, probabilmente
risulterebbe piů spontaneo dire "Č me", piuttosto che "Č io".



"Sono io che ho fatto..." è "son mi che ga fato...", in dialetto
veneto.
Why is it that the Italian will never use "Sono me", but the Veneto
will say "Son mi"?
Joe from Massachusetts

 will say "Son mi"?
Because there's no "io" in many dialects, in Milanese for sure ("mi" = "io"
and "me").
Bye, FB
-- 
"What meaning of this, Mitter Twain?". "I will tell you, Mr Wang, if you
can tell me why a man who possesses one of the most brilliant minds of this
century can't say his prepositions or articles".
(Murder by Death)

 will say "Son mi"?
FB told you the reason. Apparently many dialects don't have "io". In my
dialect "mi" is "io" and "me", but "mi piace" is "el me piase".
(Io) ho fame.	(mi) go fame
sono stato io	son sta mi
mi piace	me piase
a me piace	a mi me piase
me stesso	mi steSo (S as in Sole)
Il leone mangia me	el leon el magna mi/el me magna
io mangio il leone	mi magno el leon
Sebastiano

 You cat eater. :)


> You cat eater. :)
Yep. And you've changed yours!
Now you have to explain again also this one. :)
Note that the new Dialog v2.0.13.1 (beta 36) is out.
It will update the database to a new format, then it's suggested to make a
backup of the Dialog's folder, but noone has got troubles, so I think the
backup might be avoided. You can install the new version over the old one.
If you're using scripts, they must be compiled again.
Ciao,
-- 
Maria Luisa C - 06/09/2004 22.59.37

> You cat eater. :)
Where do I have to look to see x-faces? I'm trying Dialog (I have been
using Agent for a couple of years) and so far it seems very nice. But I
don't know where to look for x-faces. ;)
Sebastiano



Click on the "+" up on the left of the article pane. Please, don't do like
Xakero, who pressed desperately the + key on the keyboard for hours before
collapsing on it. (si fa pe' schezzare, Xakero)
Bye, FB


 Note that the new Dialog v2.0.13.1 (beta 36) is out.
Thanks! I will check it out.


 wrote in message
news:idfxrysvzot7$.7180vqhuk56e$.dlg@40tude.net...

I tutimati i magna el leon, e i magnagato coSa  xe che i magna?
(Correct my errors, please, Seba)     :>)
Joe from Massachusetts

 (Correct my errors, please, Seba)     :>)
It seems ok. The plural of "magnagato" is "magnagati". I would have said "I
tutimati i maea el leon e i maeagati 'Sa maeli?
"Cosa" in Veneto is pronunced with a voiced s. I don't know much about
Vicenza dialect and "coSa" seemed rather strange. However, now that I think
of it, it seems just fine if I imagine your sentence uttered by someguy
from Vicenza. In my dialect we say "cosa" or "'Sa", but we don't say
"coSa".
To eat is:
My dialect 		Your dialect
mi màio			màgno		
ti te mài		màgni
lu/ela el/la màia	màgna
noalti maémo		magnémo
vualtri maì		magnì
lori i màia		màgna
In Vicenza and in some parts of Verona (I don't know about the rest of the
Veneto) they use "magnar" instead of "maiar".
Sebastiano

 Click on the "+" up on the left of the article pane. 
Done. Now I don't have the "+" anymore, and I don't see x-faces. Damn. Let
me check it again.
Sebastiano

 me check it again.
Got it. Nice feature. I love this Dialog. I have to get used to it, it's
very different from Agent.
Sebastiano

 o nel passato, di simili frasi?
Concedo che "It is I" è desueto, quasi mai usato fuori le scuole e i testi
biblici... e i libri per bambini.
"It is I... Angela Anaconda"; title of a children's book;
http://shop.abc.net.au/browse/product.asp?productid=157796
 
"It is I the Middle Billy Goat"; The Three Billy Goats Gruff;
http://www.legendsandlore.com/after_goatsplay.html
(Poveri ragazzi, andranno in giro parlando un inglese desueto)
QUOTE
It's I, It's me, It is I, It is me. The debate goes on. It is I or It's
just Mike and I is favored in formal, grammatically correct writing. But It
is me or It's just Mike and me is favored in casual, informal writing.
Writing authorities aren't unanimous in recommending one or the other. Most
acknowledge that It is I sounds stuffy and stilted. And some say that It is
me is so common in our living, changing language--especially in
conversation--that we should except it as correct. Also, consider rewriting
sentences so they don't begin with the wordy, weak It is, especially in
formal or business writing; that would eliminate the I/me question: Just
Mike and I are still in the office.
UNQUOTE
Source: 
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/stylemanual/ithruj.htm
Interessante anche questo:
http://www.alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxitsmev.html
che parla anche del "c'est moi" di Joe from Massachusetts.
-- 
Xakero

 It means "broken"
How is the meaning rendered? (<== I didn't feel like using a dictionary)
Bye, FB


_Sebapop_, martedě 07/set/2004:

Your X-Face is amazing :)
Dialog is a wonderful newsreader, much better than Agent because is highly
customizable. If you need help to feel at your ease with it, see the links
in my signature: besides the FAQs, there are also tutorials and screenshots.
-- 
Maria Luisa C - 07/09/2004 13.41.21
FAQ di Dialog in italiano:
http://fido.altervista.org/Dialog/faq.html
http://www.lillathedog.net/dialog/faq.html



I, too, like it very much. You can do everything you never thought possible
with other programs, perhaps more expensive (that is, not free...). I just
couldn't live without views and its amazing effectiveness in handling
charsets. I must say I was used to OE, so whatever newsreader would be "tan
zucher" ([tan 'tsyker], "tanto zucchero", i.e. "tanto di guadagnato").
Bye, FB


 in my signature: besides the FAQs, there are also tutorials and screenshots.
Nice work, I'll be reading for a while. :)
Thanks.
Sebastiano

 zucher" ([tan 'tsyker], "tanto zucchero", i.e. "tanto di guadagnato").
It's a big step, but it's worth it.
Sebastiano

 non le riesco a leggere. Beh, l'ultima sì, ma è un caso a parte.
Intendevo dire "non riesco a comprenderle". :)
Sebastiano / سيبلستيانو

 I tried to convert one of my photos, but the results were not good.
Sembra impossibile rendere una foto in bianco e nero (2 bit) con solo 48x48
pixel. Max M. l'ha fatto; non so come.
-- 
Xakero

 I tried to convert one of my photos, but the results were not good.
A x-ray photo?
Or are you so thin?
;-)
Now tell me what سيبلستيانو is, please.
-- 
Maria Luisa C - 07/09/2004 16.06.50

 48x48 pixel. Max M. l'ha fatto; non so come.
Non è stato difficile: io sono un cartone animato.
(Non ricordavo nemmeno di avere l'X-Face. Per altro, non uso Dialog, quindi
nemmeno la vedo.)
Max

Yeah, I have to get used to it, you know. :)
You've got no chance. Once an Agent user, always an Agent user :)

_jonny_, martedì 07/set/2004:

No way! I was an Agent user, then I met Dialog... ♥
-- 
Maria Luisa C - 07/09/2004 16.50.43

 nemmeno la vedo.)
Nemmeno io la vedo, e uso Dialog.
Sebastiano

 pixel. Max M. l'ha fatto; non so come.
Ne ho viste in giro. Non so come hanno fatto, ma la fisionomia è ancora
riconoscibile. Ovvio, il dettaglio si perde, ma ci si riconoscerebbe nella
foto. Devo capire come si fa. :)
Sebastiano

 Now tell me what سيبلستيانو is, please.
My name. It's Siybâstiyânuw. :)
Sebastiano

 You've got no chance. Once an Agent user, always an Agent user :)
Yeah, I know what you mean. But, believe me, I am not going back the
Question Mark World. :)
Sebastiano

 Now tell me what ?????????? is, please.
It looks like the Arabic for "il mangiagato č piů espressivo del
tutimato".
But then I don't know any Arabic, but it's nice to pull Seba's chain.
:>)
I am just wondering how many of the readers of this group are set up
(or care to be set up) to receive extended characters. I know that if
I post the Euro symbol (?) it is viewed by many as a question mark.
(?).
I use Outlook, and have it configured to read, but not send, extended
characters, because I am pretty sure that there are many readers of
this group who are not set up for it, and therefore, posting extended
characters would be like using the group for a private chat line. It
would be interesting to know how many of the readers of the group can
see these extended characters. If there are some who read the group on
the Internet, rather than via a properly-set-up news reader, all they
see is the usual ??????? instead of the flowery script posted by Seba.
Is it counter-productive to post extended characters, if many people
can't see them? Or should we assume that the serious reader of the
group should be able to read extended characters?
Joe from Massachusetts


 
Non c'è in tutti i miei messaggi. A volte sì, a volte no. :)
Max

 Non c'č in tutti i miei messaggi. A volte sě, a volte no. :)
Uff, ora mi devo mettere a cercare in tutti i messaggi. Non c'č nemmeno in
questo. :)
Sebastiano

 group should be able to read extended characters?
Nope. I am not going to use extended characters. I will if I have to, but I
don't see why I should use them on this NG. I've used them 'cause I was
happy and it was my first time. :)
Sebastiano