Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Those friends of your brother('s)

Scusate se apro un nuovo filone: non ho più gli articoli relativi alla
questione in oggetto. 
Volevo far sapere, specialmente a Joe e Dale, che ho aperto un thread su
alt.usage.english su questo argomento.
Ciao, FB
-- 
L'importante è che risplenda tu, sola primadonna e immarcescibile leggenda
del tuo pianerottolo.
(Lucangel su it.cultura.libri)

 alt.usage.english su questo argomento.
Come mai?
Non trovo lo thread originale, ma "those friends of your brother's" è
normalissimo in inglese GB, e credo anche US.
-- 
May

 ma "those friends of your brother's" è normalissimo in inglese GB, e credo anche US.
Io l'ho scritto e né Dale Erwin né Joe erano sicurissimi che "those friends
of your brother's" fosse giusto e "those friends of your brother" fosse
sbagliato.
Ciao, FB
-- 
Se dico "siedi!" manca l'oggetto.
Siedo chi? Lei o me?
(da it.cultura.linguistica.italiano)

 Ciao, FB
Sono sicurissimo che "those friends of your brother's" è giusto.
Non sono 100% sicuro che "those friends of your brother" sia
sbagliato ma credo di sí.
-- 
Dale Erwin
Salamanca 116
Pueblo Libre
Lima 21 PERU
Tel. +51(1)461-3084
Cel. +51(1)9743-6439
DALE ERWIN'S OPERA FILES - 
http://www.geocities.com/dale_erwin

 sbagliato ma credo di sí.
Suona strano a me.
-- 
The foregoing is my opinion, and my opinion alone. It is intended to
demonstrate modern American English -- colloquial and spoken, (but well
spoken) for the most part; not literary American English. Ergo, caveat
lector. (No, not you, Hannibal)
Oh, if you feel the need to e-mail me, un-not my address first.

 sbagliato ma credo di sí.
A proposito, come diciamo in inglese "un amico di un suo amico"?
Max
 

A proposito, come diciamo in inglese "un amico di un suo amico"?
"a friend of his/her friend".
Un amico di un amico di un amico
"a friend of his/her friend's friend"
Sebastiano

 "a friend of his/her friend".
Ma questo è "un amico DEL suo amico". 
Ma anche in questo caso, non ci vorrebbe il doppio genitivo? 
 a friend of her friend's
Max

 a friend of her friend's
Boh. A me col genitivo non piace. A quanto ho capito vanno bene tutte
e due, sia con il genitivo, sia senza.
Sebastiano

  a friend of her friend's
Sě.
Si puň anche dire "a friend of a friend", ma perdi il "suo".
-- 
Mary

Sì.
Ma è un errore comune dire "a friend of his/her friend" senza il
genitivo? Perché su google sono più quelli senza che quelli con.
Sebastiano

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 16:31:59 +0200, Mary Cassidy wrote:

Non si puň dire "a friend of a friend of his"?
Ciao, FB
-- 
Mrs. Palmer, in her way, was equally angry. 'She was determined to drop his
acquaintance immediately, and she was very thankful that she had never been
acquainted with him at all'. (Jane Austen)


Boh, a me suona male - per me ci vuole il genitivo come nella frase "a
friend of mine".
Comunque non è una forma molto comune; normalmente si direbbe "his
friend's friend" o "one of his friend's friends".
-- 
Mary
-- 
Mary

 Non si puň dire "a friend of a friend of his"?
Sě, ma diventa un po' lungo e brutto con la ripetizione di "of".
-- 
Mary

friend's friend" o "one of his friend's friends".
Ah, ok. Tagliamo la testa al toro. :)
Sebastiano

 Max
Direi io "a friend of a friend of his."



Vero č che la maggioranza delle frasi citate in questo filone
sono giuste e esprimono piů o meno la stessa idea ma dico io che
la frase piů vicina alla frase italiana č questa.
("a friend of a friend of his")


 wrote in message
news:8v3don8qq84q.1oidvy5v3nesf$.dlg@40tude.net...
Re "friends of your brother"
(Quote)Although English has long and happily employed the double
genitive, as in "That lawnmower of Eleanor's works fine", this
construction, which wraps both the periphrastic genitive with of and
the inflected genitive with the apostrophe plus s around Eleanor to
make possession double, is now limited to our Informal and Semiformal
writing and to the lowest levels of our speech, if we use it at all.
Once again eighteenth-century argument (that one genitive is enough,
and two are improper) has at least partly won out over exuberance,
hyperbole, and redundancy. But only partly. A good many of us do use
some double genitives and do not notice that they are double. Some
language liberals argue that in Informal and Casual contexts the
double genitive is idiomatic and not overkill, but few editors of
Standard English will be likely to let it stand in Formal writing. It'
s either friends of my sister or my sister's friends; even in
conversation, friends of my sister's may grate harshly on some purists
' ears.(Unquote)
http://www.bartleby.com/68/99/1999.html
As you can see from this and previously cited examples, not all
grammarians insist on using the double genitive in those cases where
it is not necessary, insisting that the double genitive is overkill in
these cases. What grates upon one man's ears may be sweet music to
another's.
Joe from Massachusetts


Then you're saying that "friends of you" is proper?


 wrote in message
news:2ketadF...@uni-berlin.de...

The question before us, as the subject line of this thread clearly
states, is whether or not the phrase ''friends of your brother" is
correct, or "proper", not whether there exist cases where the double
genitive is permissible, or even mandatory. I am well aware that the
double genitive is mandatory in some cases ("friends of mine, yours,
his, hers, ours, theirs [but not its]).
I have perused past posts, and nowhere do I see myself having
mentioned the phrase "friends of you", or suggesting that "friends of
you" passes for English. Neither do I see any citations suggesting
that "friends of your brother" is incorrect English.
The above citation from Bartleby, among others, clearly reveals a
preference (perhaps even a prejudice), for the simple possessive over
the double possessive in the phrase in question. Other authorities may
give equal weight to both forms.  Still others may show a preference
or prejudice for the double possessive. None of those which I have
seen imply that the simple possessive in this case is incorrect.
Perhaps you could cite some authority which would state, opine, or
even infer, that the phrase is incorrect, or "improper"?
Joe from Massachusetts


OK, it just sounded like you were implying that ALL instances of
double geneive was improper.  I can live with that.
