Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: Meaning of should

Hello!!! I'm an italian that needs some advices on using the auxiliary
"should".
So, here we are. I know in english there is no such a kind of
difference like we have between "condizionale" and "inperfetto" and
both ways are translated with the same auxiliaries "would" or "should"
or whatever... but... is it true? I mean, for example:
"I should vote" means that my duty is to vote and it's expected i'm
doing that ("dovrei votare"). But it also means that my duty was to
vote and I didn't for some strange reasons. ("dovevo votare").
So, is it true? Or maybe do I have to use the form "I should have to
vote" to depict the second meaning? Please, let me know, my english is
not so good and I must understand the difference. Feel free to answer
either in italian or english, thanks a lot!!

 "I should vote"
dovrei votare
avrei dovuto votare = I should have voted
would (e non should) può essere usato per rendere l'imperfetto in alcuni 
casi di azioni ripetute nel passato.
-- 
ciao
Es
ICQ 223465821 - MSN enrico81 chiocciola/at gmail punto/dot com
"isolated idiopathic hemiballismus is always an appropriate excuse"

 casi di azioni ripetute nel passato.
Perché anche "should"? Non ti contesto: solo non riesco a capire che 
intendi.
Ciao, FB

 intendi.
e ma io non ho capito che intendi tu :)
in che senso anche should? io ho detto per l'imperfetto va bene would e 
non should, se poi va bene anche should non l'ho detto perché non lo so 
:) (non l'ho mai visto comunque)
______________________________________
a margine faccio una mini autopresentazione, visto che sto postando un 
po' in piů: mi chiamo Enrico (ma terrň il mio nick Es perché in tre 
saremmo proprio troppi ;) ), ho quasi 25 anni e avrei sostenuto il CAE a 
giugno se impegni concorsuali non me l'avessero impedito :S


 e ma io non ho capito che intendi tu :)
Ma nemmeno io... (faccina) Benvenuto!
Ciao, FB

 :) (non l'ho mai visto comunque)
(tra l'altro mi ero spiegato malissimo qui... intendevo:)
in che senso "anche should"? io ho detto che per l'imperfetto va bene 
would e non should; se poi con questo significato va bene anche should, 
il motivo per cui non l'ho detto è che non lo so :) (non l'ho mai visto 
comunque)
-- 


 either in italian or english, thanks a lot!!
'I should have to' is the conditional of 'I have to' (needing an IF-clause 
expressed or implied) . In the unlikely event that you were using 'should' 
in the same way as in 'I should vote'(dovrei votare) , it would mean 'I 
ought to be
obliged to vote' .
IN SUMMARY :-
The modal verb 'should/would' can be used *only* with a present infinitive 
or a past infinitive (base forms)
It has many uses .
One of these is to form a conditional tense , equivalent to the Italian 
conditional tense (parlerei , avrei parlato)
Another is to express the meaning of duty or obligation . Since 'should' can 
only be used in the two ways given above , there cannot be a close parallel 
with the use of tenses of 'dovere' , which conjugates fully in the normal 
way (apart from having no imperative) .
There is a simple way to avoid confusion between these two uses : when it 
has the sense of duty , 'should' is used for all persons (never 'would') . 
In the conditional , according to older custom , 'should' was used for the 
first persons ; however , almost everyone in the UK now uses 'would' in all 
persons for the conditional ; so : 'would [go]' = conditional tense ; 
'should [go]' = meaning of duty , etc.
The imperfect tense in English is the past continuous : simple past of the 
auxiliary 'to be' + present participle (andavo - 'I was going', etc.)
Other uses of the imperfect in Italian and French have to be rendered in 
other ways - e.g. (andavo) 'I used to go' , or 'I would go'. If the latter 
causes any confusion with the conditional tense , then don't use it - the 
English rarely do (you're more likely to meet it in writing than in speech) 
.
Hope this is reasonably clear  and some help . The use of 'should' in all 
its senses is rather a complicated business !
Mike

Ok, I think I got it.
"dovrei votare" = I should vote
"dovevo votare" = I was supposed to vote /I would vote
"avrei dovuto votare" = I should have to vote
"avrei voluto votare" = I would have to vote
sigh, it's quite complicated...(what language is not?)
Thanks a lot!!!
Mike Brewer ha scritto:


 "avrei voluto votare" = I would have to vote
"I would have voted" funziona, ma si possono usare perifrasi varie.
Ciao, FB


CUT .


 casi di azioni ripetute nel passato.
whenever she cried I would wipe her tears out

 'should + vote' or 'should + have voted'
"I knocked off early so that I (should/could?/would?) vote" is correct?
what about: "I lent her my book so that she should read it" (gli ho 
prestato il mio libro cos'ì che lo leggesse) is it correct?
thanks

 wrote:

oppure:
"I managed nonetheless to listen to all the four parts, but it was 
definitely not the best way such an exam *could* be held."
wouldn't it sound better if I said:
"I managed nonetheless to listen to all the four parts, but it was 
definitely not the best way such an exam *should* be held."

 non me l'avessero impedito :S
Anche tu il CAE!
Benvenuto.
;-)
Tschüss,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
--
"People say sometimes that Beauty is only superficial. That may be so. But 
at least it is not as superficial as Thought is. To me, Beauty is the wonder 
of wonders. It is only shallow people who do not judge by appearances. The 
true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible." (Oscar Wilde, 
The Picture of Dorian Gray) 

 definitely not the best way such an exam *should* be held."
Cambia un po' la sfumatura, ma a me "suonano" bene entrambe. Aspetta pero' 
qualche parere più autorevole.
Tschüss,
Enrico il Pentolaio.
P.S. Stasera ti aspetto, ve'.
;-))


 P.S. Stasera ti aspetto, ve'.
Ti sei pentito?
:-)
Tschüss,
Enrico il Pentolaio.



Also not possible in English .
Sorry !
Mike 

 definitely not the best way such an exam *should* be held."
Well , it would mean something different , but in fact I don't think it 
really means anything anyway .
Mike