Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.inglese
Titolo: went, exercise

http://a4esl.org/q/f/z/zz63fck.htm
I think there is an error.
Question: I (go) to bed before nine when I was a child.
Answer: went
It doesn't sound right to me: "went" makes me think of an isolated 
episode rather than of a habit.
I would say
I USED TO GO to bed before nine when I was a child.
or
I WOULD GO to bed before nine when I was a child (but this use of 
"WOULD" is almost new to me so I'm not completely sure about it).
Kiuhnm


I think "went" is what most people would actually say.
"I read books every day when I was small." "I liked Power Rangers when
I was
8 but for some reason it seems silly now." and so on.
I'm not sure "used to" is actually wrong. Indeed, if you _don't_ say
when, I think
"used to" is the only sane choice. "I used to go to bed before 9" (but
I don't any more.)
The use of would you mention seems pretty rare to me. I'm not sure
I've ever used it when
speaking. "When I was young, I would go to the cinema three times a
day." It's perfectly
correct, but it feels a bit like something I'd expect to see in an
autobiography, and not something
I'd expect most people to say.

):

"Went" is normal. "After she left, I went to bed every night with an aching 
heart."
If one were relating a story or an anecdote or a situation, one might use 
"would" particularly if the event being related wasn't necessary regularly 
occurring.
My older brother used to torture me when we were growing up. I would go to 
bed every night before nine and he would come in at 11, turn the lights on 
and make a lot of noise in an obvious attempt to wake me up! An attempt that 
would succeed most nights.
-- 
Joe/Joey da New York
English as she is spoken (and sometimes written) in the US


Ok, thank you both.
It appears my "ear" is still quite unreliable.
Kiuhnm

):

Try the other ear, then. :)
Your version is not wrong. It would be okay to say "I used to go to bed 
before nine when I was a child." but without any reason to emphasize the 
regularity of the act, "went" expresses the thought in a much more efficient 
manner. It's all about efficiency, after all.
Well, not always.


 episode rather than of a habit.
Ma "went" in questo caso si puï¿œ tradurre in italiano anche con
l'imperfetto, "andavo".

 l'imperfetto, "andavo".
You should be ashamed of yourself for tempting a student into this kind 
of blasphemous reasoning! :-)
Kiuhnm

 I've ever used it when speaking. 
Really? Stasera ho conosciuto un'americana che era l'anno scorso in 
scambio in Italia e mentre stavo parlando ero indeciso fra il 
condizionale e il simple past, le ho chiesto cosa avrebbe detto lei, e 
mi ha risposta dicendo che avrebbe scelto la forma con "would". Anyway, 
I was so impressed at how she would pronounce single words in Italian 
and not sound American. She wasn't fluent, but still, best non-native 
Italian speaker I've met so far here.
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.

Enrico il Pentolaio ha scritto:

She was hot, tell the truth.
:)

 It appears my "ear" is still quite unreliable.
I admit that I thought the same as you regarding the "used to" option, 
but not the "would" one.
And as Joe/Joey wrote, your suggestion of "used to" is not wrong anyway.


I saw that use of "would" for the first time on this very newsgroup.
Maybe it was Joe or Joseph.
But I've never used it, really.
Kiuhnm

 Really?
It's possible that I use it without realising I do, in the same way
that e.g.
someone in Rome who claimed never to use the passato remoto in speech
occasionally did so.
It sounds a bit literary. I _think_ I'd say "went" or "used to go"
when talking about my childhood, and rarely if ever "would go".

 when talking about my childhood, and rarely if ever "would go".
Maybe Joe is very old :-) or maybe it's just another difference between 
British and American English.
Kiuhnm

> that  would succeed most nights.
V2:
My older brother used to torture me when we were growing up. I went to bed 
every night before nine and he came in at 11, turned the lights on and made a 
lot of noise in an obvious attempt to wake me up! An attempt that succeeded 
most nights.
In the second version the *implication* is that my brother came in at 11,  
turned the lights on and made a lot of noise *every night.* In the last 
sentence, about the success of his efforts, there isn't much difference 
because the phrase is modified by "most nights."
The first version implies it happened frequently (did someone say "orphan"?) 
but not always. It seems the second implies it happened every night.


 She was hot, tell the truth.
Ahah, yes she was!
Ciao,
Enrico il Pentolaio.

 because the phrase is modified by "most nights."
That "every night" seems to contradict the use of "would". Why not
"V1/2:
My older brother used to torture me when we were growing up. I went to 
bed every night before nine and he would come in at 11, turn the lights 
on and make a lot of noise in an obvious attempt to wake me up! An 
attempt that succeeded most nights." ?
Kiuhnm

 wrote in message
news:4abdfbbb$0$1108$4faf...@reader1.news.tin.it...

It is quite common, especially when reminiscing.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=site%3A+www.nytimes.com+%22we+would+go%22&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3A+www.timesonline.co.uk+%22we+would+go%22&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
Joe from Massachusetts

):

Perfectly fine. Maybe even better, in that it enforces the success. I was 
just pointing out that the "would" construction *could* be used.


 It is quite common, especially when reminiscing.
Good point. Maybe that was the element I was missing.


 just pointing out that the "would" construction *could* be used.
Ok.
I've just found this short article about "used to VS would":
http://www.grammaring.com/used-to-and-would-for-past-habits
Do you agree with it?
Kiuhnm

 wrote in message
news:4abf2eb9$0$1093$4faf...@reader3.news.tin.it...

I agree with it, for the most part. However, I would never use the last
phrases mentioned:
"Did he use to be the smartest kid?"
"While at school he didn't use to be the smartest kid in the class."
In these cases, I would probably use the simple past, "was he", and "wasn't
he" instead of "Did he use to be" and "he didn't use to be".
The very last phrases seem almost archaic to me, and I would absolutely
never use such phrases, although my Irish father sometimes used "usedn't
he", a phrase which would never cross my lips.
Actually, I think "usedn't to be" would be colloquially less common than
"usedn't be", and the version without the "to" would sound better, although
still archaic or dialectal, to my ears.
"Used he to be the smartest kid?"
"While at school he usedn't to be the smartest kid in the class."
Joe from Massachusetts

):

I don't agree with some of it.
In the first example, I find it perfectly normal to say:
On Sundays my parents would always take me to dance school, and I would hate 
it.
I also find natural:
While at school he would always be the one to finish his exams first.
I guess I agree with the other examples, with the exception of the last two:
"Used he to be the smartest kid?" sounds ridiculous; no one I know would use 
that construction, saying instead "Did he use to be.." Likewise "he usedn't" 
rather than "he didn't use to..." (My spell checker is admonishing me as I 
write "usedn't".)
They might be British. Rather than "not so common," in the US they're not 


 he" instead of "Did he use to be" and "he didn't use to be".
The simple past must be very common in that context, because it sounds 
better even to me.
By the way, I don't think that "being the smartest" is a habit...
Kiuhnm

 used.
Mmm... the "about" page reads:
"The content of this site was created by Tibor Borb�s and P�ter Simon, 
assistant lecturers at the English Department of the University of 
Szeged, Juh�sz Gyula Teacher Training College in Szeged, Hungary. Tibor 
and P�ter have been teaching English language and grammar for more than 
a decade. They also work part time at TANSZ�K English Language School in 
Szeged."
Kiuhnm

 used.
Trying to come up with a negative form of "used to", I find that
"didn't use to" sounds very odd to me. "didn't used to" sounds
positively wrong. I'm sure I've heard people say negatives of "used
to" but I've never noticed if there was a "d" on the end or not. Both
look terrible in writing, at least to me, but if forced to choose I'd
go with "didn't use to". However, I'd try very hard to say it another
way. "Used not to" sounds pretty forced but less dreadful than either
of those. I'd prefer to say it some completely different way, though.
"Did he use to be... ?" sounds better than "Did he used to be..?" (to
me) and I imagine the former is right but strange, while the latter is
wrong. I imagine I've heard this kind of construction but I'm not sure
I've ever read it. I think, again, I'd try to avoid it. But how else
to say "Didn't you use to be in The Beatles?". I'm not sure what I
really say in cases like this.
"He usedn't.." sounds odd to me. Even if it's "allowed", I'd avoid it
just like I'd avoid "mayn't".

 really say in cases like this.
When I meet former Beatles members I typically say "Weren't you in the 
Beatles?"

 really say in cases like this.
When I meet former Beatles members I typically say "Weren't you in the 
Beatles?"

 of those. I'd prefer to say it some completely different way, though.
[Constant "bum-bum"s and "shoo-wop"s throughout the song.]
You never used to cry, but you do it all the time
You do, you do, you do, you do
[...]
(Inxs)

 you in the Beatles?"
In the former phrase would you use the word "whenever" instead
of "when"?
-- 
"At age 50, every man has the face he deserves."
                -- George Orwell

 of "when"?
I could, I might, I would, but I didn't. Both are correct.