Newsgroup: it.fan.startrek
Titolo: Star Trek deve morire...[lungo, in inglese, solo per veri fans]

Ecco qui un articolo (purtroppo in inglese, non ho il tempo per
tradurlo) che in effetti pone dei quesiti e delle questioni IMHO
interessanti.
E' sicuramente provocatorio, ma bisogna ammettere che le motivazioni
dell'autore sono abbastanza valide.
Se avete voglia di leggervelo tutto e di postare eventuali commenti,
eccolo qui...
Jinn
e adesso..buona lettura!! :-)
I have enjoyed Star Trek for many years. However my interest has waned
very significantly toward the TNG after series (e.g. Deep Space Nine
and Voyager), as well as these new "movies", as they are so-called.
Now, more than ever, are fans proclaiming change -- a portion them
anyway. However, I feel, with all due regret but relief analogously,
that Trek must, for the good of Trek’s Ideology and for the good of
all fans, die. 
The pronouncement may be nothing new too you, especially since there
are those who have stated that Trek is already dead or dying, or even
to die. However, a death to all things Trek -- discontinuation and
decommissioning thereof -- would be beneficial for you, future
generations, and myself. I will endeavor to elaborate as to the
reasons that prompted this article, as well as its intent. 
My first concern for Trek stems from the fan base it has gestated. The
fan base -- whether viewers loyal, casual, or passive -- comprise of
many different factions at odds with one another, as I see it. We have
a faction that likes Berman, a faction liking Roddenberry, a faction
proclaiming a return to the roots of Trek, a faction that hates Modern
Trek, a faction that loathes Classic Trek (or even doesn’t know it at
all), a faction liking all, a faction declaring that Trek is dead, a
faction that believes Trek is alive and well...
The list continues, and it’s kind of pathetic (maybe ironic) that fans
of a television show are at odds with one another. It’s also woeful
that the word faction has to be used at all; something you’d likely
see as a headline on some sort of newspaper during the American Civil
War. Remember Bleeding Kansas? 
And what we have here, right in front of our very eyes, is a vicious
circle of destruction brewing. One where fans are walling themselves
in, just because of their like for a show or shows over other shows.
Little wonder people have a good laugh at us when we come open and
say, "My favorite show is Star Trek." To confine ourselves and retort
with venom that could kill armed soldiers as if they were nuclear
weaponry is exactly the antithesis of that which we so, allegedly or
not, watch in action on unsurpassed Star Trek. 
Any continuation of Trek, in any way, shape, or form will continue to
put fellow fans at odds with one another. However, is that the only
reason I want what is best for Trek -- for it to transcend this life
into a completely different life? The fans venom? Not in a long shot,
for that only scrapes the iceberg. 
Another thing that scares me is that fans will waste their time
whining -- yes, I literally mean whining -- about the problems with
Trek... yet some of these same people do not stand up and organize
themselves into a feasible organized group. And, when ever a fan or a
group of fans demand action in the form of a movement or campaign,
they are instantly attacked upon by those who don't agree. Of course,
that in itself is nothing new, but does illustrate my antecedent point
about fan venom. Not that I'm saying that some fan campaigns are
exactly completely innocent either, however to do two wrongs just
creates a larger wrong. To their credit, at least they are making
themselves coherent. 
Which really brings the entire thing full circle, if you actually get
the human computer geared up. See, there are those who simply complain
and there are those who take action to actually try and do something
about it, but are attacked by the complainers who really do nothing
beyond that, sadly. 
Go on a message board -- any board -- look up posts related to the
major fan campaigns. There seem to be people complaining that "this
way" isn't the way to go, but "that away" is. Well, if that’s true,
why haven't there been tons of fan movements to make their ideas into
possibility? 
Simple answer really: they just want to complain. They don't want to
do anything about transmuting that complaint into something that would
solve the problem(s) at hand, finding out who else agrees, and making
that into a fan effort to make sure that problem gets solved. 
Can it get any simpler? I'm sure it could, at the level that could
compromise the integrity of the message. However, you get my point...
if fans wish to complain, at least have those complaints directed at
people who could make a potential difference; not on those fans who
aren't in the position to make the change. Otherwise your complaint
isn't worth making. And, I'd also like to enter that whether or not
you happen to agree with these movements and campaigns, they're at
least trying to do something. That's enough, in my estimation, for
them to earn the admiration and respect from those that may not agree
with their cause, especially of those who do not or cannot organize a
movement or campaign of their own. 
Speaking of fan involvement, and for people who watch Trek, it seems
there are those of us who have nothing better to do but comment on
every little nuance of a television show or movie. Instead of sitting
on the couch, chair, or wherever you happen to station yourself, why
not just go out and do something? Fun is one thing, but to have it as
a basis of one's own life is not a good use of time, especially since
life is so short. I don't mean to be condescending, but if you happen
to enjoy Trek enough to debate about it, why not actually go out and
try to get something done in the community? I know that there are
those of us who do, and I commend you, however it seems there are
those of us who need to do something with our lives, besides watch,
read, or gawk over Trek. 
Obviously, there is some passion, the size mattering little, to make
your own little niche in the world and making the world a better place
for our scions and the future generations that will follow them.
Instead of just watching Trek, experience Trek by putting yourself
into a position to help your fellow peers. Help out molding the future
of tomorrow by volunteering as a helper in an after-school program for
teens and pre-teens, become a part of a group dedicated to cleaning
the community of refuse, or to help those in need in your
neighborhood. It's better than just watching Trek, now isn't it? It
certainly has been for myself when I've helped out a neighbor or
helped my fellow peers in after school programs. 
What additionally concerns me about the franchise's shows continually
being spun off is the fact that the newer shows will likely step on
the toes of the previous shows, as well as destroy their image -- the
dream, the reason they became hits in the first place, and the
characters that made everything happen. It’s happened to Kirk and
Company, and it’s already happening to Picard and his valiant crew,
next it’ll be Sisko and his crew...
Let me say that there is basically everything dead set against such a
series -- and not even giving a break between a new series and Voyager
(loathe it or despite it) definitely will not help get people back. 
What Trek needs is a superb and final farewell, a dignified one, one
that befits the franchise. Otherwise, with the way that Trek is going,
it will get a dishonorable, dismal one. It will ruin those who work
for it, and those who work for it will ruin it. Getting new blood may
help, however Star Trek needs to be put in the stable with the rest of
the sci-fi horses who were wise enough to bow out when they did. I'd
rather not watch a once great television saga be destroyed by people
who care only for money and ratings, and not trying to make a good
television show or even a good movie for that matter. I sincerely
doubt that neither would you, especially if you liked the show(s) so
very much. 
Trek has, to say the least, overstayed its welcome. It's time for Trek
to step aside for a few decades or for maybe half a century, and for
other science fiction shows to flourish. There are other great jewels
out there besides Star Trek -- any of them. Yes, even in today’s
excuse for television, there are oases of intelligent and enjoyable
television. Prominent among these series being Farscape and Stargate
SG-1; hell even the upcoming Roddenberry based series, Andromeda,
seems to gather more attention and masses than today's Trek. There's
already a massive fan base for that, and the show hasn't even begun
yet! 
Add to the fact that people are growing sick of the Star Trek
franchise. I myself am feeling it, and no doubt are you in some
respect. After all, to think that Trek, any Trek, is the only series
worthy of being on television would be doing the credo of Infinite
Diversity in Infinite Combination injustice. 
And, in death, there is always the chance for reincarnation -- or
resurrection. The fans will still be there! If a show like Battlestar
Galactica can have such a strong following after only being on one
year and demand a resurrection of the original cast after twenty
years, then Trek fans can become one united force once again. Until
our attitudes change, until those Powers That Be attitudes change,
neither they nor we deserve continuance of this thing called Trek; for
mutually, we are the ones who are ultimately to destroy it. 
For the good of the dream, for the good of ourselves, and for the good
of our fellow peers... Trek must die. No more canonical Trek. No
more... Lest be that which Trek stood for be destroyed by our petty
quarrels with one another, and for the utter decimation of the ideals
of Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combination. 
____________  =/\=  ____________
"For I dipt into the future, 
far as human eye could see;
Saw the vison of the world,
and all the wonder that would be..."
==============================
"The best evidence of intelligent life 
out there is that none of them have
contacted us..."
==============================

 read, or gawk over Trek. 
Qui ha ragione.
Spesso il fandom di ST e' fin troppo estremista e petulante.
Miles.


wrote:
 
-Megacut
Come dice lo stesso articolista l'argomento non e' nuovo ma e'
diventato ricorrente da quando TNG e' finito. Il problema secondo me
e' da attribuirsi soprattutto alla mancanza di idee degli
sceneggiatori, nonche' alla loro scarsezza visto che i migliori sono
passati ad altro per dissapori con la produzione o semplicemente stufi
dell'argomento. Star Trek da TNGa Voyager e' stato sul piccolo schermo
dal 1987 ad adesso, per non parlare dei film che dal 1979 continuano
ad uscire a intervalli praticamente regolari. Quello di cui c'e'
bisogno adesso e' una pausa, anche lunga 4/5 anni se necessario, per
prepararsi a lanciare una nuova serie o anche solo un nuovo film.
Dopotutto la presenza di un universo narrativo con caratteristiche
decisamente interessanti in cui ambientare le vicende non rappresenta
questo grande ostacolo se si dispone di buone sceneggiature e di plot
solidi. La Marvel fumettisticamente parlando continua a farlo da piu'
di 4 decenni, eppure si trovano ancora oggi storie eccellenti (per
quanto la mediocrita' sia presente in larga parte) ideate da
sceneggiatori di talento. Sfortunatamente la Paramount sembra
intenzionata ha concatenare una nuova serie l'anno successivo alla
fine di Voyager e questo non e' un gran bene. Il discorso sui fan lo
possiamo estendere piu' o meno a tutta la fiction televisiva
considerando la situazione americana dei die hard fan, persone
accorpabili tranquillamente ai piu' nipponici otaku. Per informazione
frequento spesso dei forum statunitensi dedicati a vari argomenti e
devo dire che tutte le volte che vado a dare un'occhiata resto
nauseato. Si tratta di persone totalmente disinteressate allo scambio
di opinioni che preferiscono scrivere i loro banali resoconti
personali in cerca di un vano consenso. Le flame scoppiano nella
maggioranza dei post e la motivazione e' sempre data da supidaggini
interpetative oppure al semplice "io so piu' di te". Non parliamo poi
degli scontri tra fan di serie diverse....per questo vi posso
consigliare il ng alt.startrek.vs.starwars... Insomma, non vedo nulla
in contrario ad una nuova serie purche' sia di qualita' (speranza
all'80% vana) ma il discorso dei fan andrebbe portato avanti sotto
un'ottica ben piu' ampia...
------
Alessandro "Sandman" Casini
ICQ# 14299401
"Erano davvero dei bei tempi quelli in cui i bambini
 si davano ancora fuoco per imitare la torcia umana"

bisogno adesso e' una pausa, anche lunga 4/5 anni se necessario, 
[...]
D'accordo su tutta la linea, per cui saremo in due ad essere delusi :-)
---------------
Zefram Cochrane
ICQ# 52362638
"Volevo scrivere il palinsesto, ma sfortunatamente sono laureato"
                                                  (Monthy Python)

D'accordo su tutta la linea, per cui saremo in due ad essere delusi :-)
Sai com'e', chi non e' deluso in compagnia o e' un ladro o e' una spia
;D


 un'ottica ben piu' ampia...
Attivate la campagna "ChriX for Trek" e vi farò sognare di nuovo
^__________^
Garantito! :PPPP)
ChristianB

> D'accordo su tutta la linea, per cui saremo in due ad essere delusi :-)
due ?due milioni ! due miliardi!! due dozzine !!!
Io saprei come sceneggiare una nuova serieeeeeeeeeeeee... Geneeee..
Geneeeee... Fai il miracolo e fammi entrare nel corpo di Brannon Braga.. che
rinnovo tutto io!
:PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
christianB

serie classica..."
Per non parlare di quelli che parlano di discussioni tecniche e si
fanno domande sulla nave piu' forte... Quelli ormai sono dispersi nel
limbo :D


Vogliamo Claremont a Star Trek! :-))
Prima mossa mettere Picard in sedia a rotelle, seconda farlo morire e
terza mettere l'adamantio a Riker ;D
Poi ci puo' stare bene una saga di Troi Nera :DDDD


 Prima mossa mettere Picard in sedia a rotelle
Be'... questo ormai e' realta' :-)))
--
Laz
"Sono il migliore in quello che faccio"
==========
"Wir trinken Blut, wir haben null Moral
Was aus dieser Welt wird, ist uns scheißegal"

Be'... questo ormai e' realta' :-)))
Certo che Patrick Stewart se li va proprio a cercare i personaggi
icona, come minimo interpretera' "Charlie" per i prossimi 10 anni ;D
Ormai manca poco all'uscita dell' X-Film, pero' e' rassicurante sapere
che ai piu' l'adattamento a fumetti (bastardamente uscito prima del
film) e' piaciuto ^_^


 film) e' piaciuto ^_^
Naaa... sono usciti tre fumetti "prequel" del film che raccontano la storia
di Magneto, Wolverine e Rogue, non il fumetto del film!
--
Laz
"Sono il migliore in quello che faccio"
==========
"Who's the more foolish... the fool or the fool who follows him?"

di Magneto, Wolverine e Rogue, non il fumetto del film!
Allora mi sa che mi sono confuso quando ign li ha recensiti titolando
che si trattava del fumetto tratto dal film. Non avevo avuto il tempo
di leggere l'articolo ma solo il rating che era di 4 su 5. Speriamo
bene comunque...


 sceneggiatori di talento.
Vogliamo Claremont a Star Trek! :-))
--
Laz
"Sono il migliore in quello che faccio"
==========
"They asked me where this earthquake would begin.
I offered to let them feel my pulse"

On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 17:17:31 GMT, 
Sandman (
masc...@tin.it
)
wrote:
| >Vogliamo Claremont a Star Trek! :-))
| 
| Prima mossa mettere Picard in sedia a rotelle, 
 Beh, basta vedere il trailer degli X-Men... ;-)
| seconda farlo morire e
 Poi farlo resuscitare con un clone... :-)
| terza mettere l'adamantio a Riker ;D
 ROTFLASTC!!!!
 4a mossa: si toglie l'adamantio a Riker e lo si fa impazzire
 
 E al posto della Regina Borg un Magneto incazzato come un biscio
 birmano... :-))))))
 
-- 
Zefram 	| WARNING: The email address is FAKE.	 ||   [ 
http://zefram.8m.com
 ]
@ Home	| "I think it's time we blow the scene. Get everybody and the
________| stuff together. Ok, 3, 2, 1... Let's jam!" --The Seatbelts, "Tank!"
GnuPG Key Fingerprint: 9747 635E B95A B0B3 4370  1CAA CAF7 512B 945C A44C 

 
E poi diventa un troglodita regredito...oddio, questo veramente e'
gia' successo :D


rimpinguare le casse della produzione e pianificare una buona serie.
Il team creativo c'era..purtroppo gli sceneggiatori non hanno voce
nelle decisioni creative, che spettano esclusivamente ai produttori.
(Berman x tutto ST e Braga x Voy).
Loro propongono le idee per gli episodi e i produttori dicono: "no,
voglio un episodio Borg", oppure, "carino, ma fanne un episodio
comico" oppure "cambia la fine" o stravolgono le trame come gli pare,
anche a livello di montaggio delle scene gia' girate. (E' per questo
che non ci sono outtakes dei film di ST, per esempio; Berman ha detto
'dovrete passare sul mio cadavere'.)
 La Taylor a suo tempo era anche lei uno dei produttori ma sono
riusciti a fare fuori persino lei. Moore e' stato chiamato da DS9 ma
quando ha cercato di fare un lavoro come si deve e' stato preso a
pedate. Persino Menosky ha mollato alla fine della sesta stagione.
Quelli che sono rimasti sono quelli che lavoranbo 'per la pagnottta' e
fanno quello che vuole Braga e chissenefrega.
E' molto difficile che ne possa venir fuori un prodotto valido. :-((((
**
Vampi
ReginadellaNotte® di IFST
Detentrice della SacraUniforminaRossadiTOS®
"Ecco gli animali..."®Anonimo

E' molto difficile che ne possa venir fuori un prodotto valido. :-((((
Dai che se poi fa schifo veramente poi festeggiamo ;D
Scherzi a parte mi pare di capire che siamo quasi tutti pessimisti nei
riguardi della quinta serie, pero' piu' continuiamo a ripeterlo e piu'
mi deprime pensarci ^^;;;


mi deprime pensarci ^^;;;
Mettiamola così: se farà veramente schifo, c'è la possibilita che la
Rai la acquisti e la trasmetta in prima serata! ^__^

 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:3955f8f7...@news.libero.it...
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