Newsgroup: it.fan.startrek
Titolo: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS

Star Trek was, and is, total cheese and kitsch. Battlestar Galactica is
totally cool and hip with wicked special effects and hot babes. The
fans of the show are way cooler than trekkies too.
-Commander Lee Adama (show the respect)

Commander Lee Adama ha scritto:

ma vai a farti fottere da un paracarro
(trad:FUCK OFF)
mrt^^

fans of the show are way cooler than trekkies too.
Pigs In Space is cooler and hipper than BSG.  Crawl back under your rock,
troll ..


You are going to piss off some people and your remarks about the fans
are absurd, but the fact is you are basically right. As a scifi fan all
my life I never could stand Star Trek TOS, and even more TNG with it's
stupid left wing agenda.
BG is much better in any way you can imagine.

 wrote in message 
news:1151904422.2...@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Troll, keep in mind that if it hadn't been for Star Trek there never 
would have been a BG.
Have respect for your elders.
Jeff DeWitt




Left wing agenda?  Please explain. 

The world of TNG is sort of a left wingers paradise, no money, everyone 
gets along (everyone on Earth at least), religion is considered a 
superstition from the past, Earth has one government, etc.
In real life things wouldn't work that way of course.
Jeff DeWitt


 would have been a BG.
	Actually if it hadn't been for Star Wars, there never would have been a 
BSG.  Trek had little if anything to do with it, unless it is your 
opinion that Trek is directly responsible for all SCI FI involving 
starship from 1969 on...


 In real life things wouldn't work that way of course.
	Are you saying that people will never grow up?


     Are you saying that people will never grow up?
Growing up has nothing to do with it, people are people and the laws of 
economics don't change.
Jeff DeWitt


 starship from 1969 on...
Obviously not, there was a lot of science fiction written in those 
years, and of course Star Wars was a bigger direct influence on BEG than 
Trek was.
However considering what else was going on in those days I sure hope 
something would have shown up on TV even if Star Trek hadn't come along, 
but it's a cinch that Trek DID influence everything that followed.
Jeff DeWitt


>


 In real life things wouldn't work that way of course.
Unless you've invented a machine that can make anything you want out of 
energy and a way of making energy that doesn't cost a dime.  ;-)
And without resource scarcity, one government would probably do just fine 
(since everyone would be getting along so well).
I kind of see ST as more of a right-wing "paradise" given all the sub-human 
species that always seem to need civilizing from the enlightened and 
benevolent hand of humanity.  I mean humans get to choose their behavior but 
not anyone else?  I don't know but that always seemed a tad racist to me (or 
maybe "specieist"). 


That is why it is a left wing paradise, on the contrary. Left wing
people (Liberals as they are called in the USA, while in Europe,
liberal means right wing economics) usually feel superior to others,
think they are more advanced and progressive than the others and that
they need to "educate" them in the right ways.


Does the troll-o-meter register negative numbers?

 wrote in message 
news:1151998209.7...@h44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Everyone does that in the U.S. at least.  Hell, we haven't had a really 
conservative politician on the national landscape since Barry Goldwater (not 
that I'd shill for him, mind you, although Hillary Clinton did :-). 

conservative politician on the national landscape since Barry Goldwater
What about Reagan?
-- 
Stop Repeat Offenders!
Don't Re-elect Them!

Reagan was a great President, certainly the greatest President of the 
second part of the 20th Century, if not the whole century, but he was 
not as conservative as Barry Goldwater.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice; moderation in the 
pursuit of justice is no virtue." - Barry Goldwater
However we DID have Senator Jesse Helms, he was (and is) a real 
conservative, and if it wasn't for him Ronald Reagan probably never 
would have become president.
Jeff DeWitt


 economics don't change.
	No they don't.  So, what happens when supply is unexhaustable, demand 
is met, and inflation is nil?
	What happens when people realize that religions were developed when the 
priests figured out that priesting involved no heavy lifting?


 but it's a cinch that Trek DID influence everything that followed.
	Ok, what were the Trek influences of Battlestar Galactica?  Influences 
that were original to Trek, and carried on in BSG.
	For example, while like JTK, Starbuck was willing to bed anything 
remotely female, this doesn't count due to Kirk could hardly be said to 
have invented being a hound.


 priests figured out that priesting involved no heavy lifting?
Spoken like someone who ISN'T a priest.

 the priests figured out that priesting involved no heavy lifting?
Faith, belief in a higher power, something bigger than yourself, doesn't 
require priests.  I believe in God, and have seen things that convince 
me something more is going on than we understand, but that doesn't 
require a priest.
Not that there is anything wrong with Clergy (well there are some Mad 
Mullahs in the Middle East that need to be sent to Allah ASAP, but that 
is another conversation!)
Jeff DeWitt


 Spoken like someone who ISN'T a priest.
	Exactly true.  Organized religion and I had a parting of the way when I 
reached the age of reason... 9 to be exact.

 is another conversation!)
	Scratch a believer and you'll find a mindless mass murderer in waiting. 
  History bears this out beyond any doubt.


is another conversation!)
Don't forget about the pedophiles and homos who abuse children by
taking advantage of their position in society.
Or were those kids just asking for it?


 reached the age of reason... 9 to be exact.
Ah yes - so you came to your considered position on religion at age 9.
Very nice.

reached the age of reason... 9 to be exact.
That's just about the age that the pedophiles and homos get interested
in little boys. You must have disappointed them.


Very nice.
I decided it was just a bunch of bullshit when a nun came up behind me
and saw me drawing a picture of a rocket. When she asked why I was
drawing it, I told her someday man would land on the Moon. This was
back in 1955 before the NASA/Sputnik era. She yelled as loud as she
could so the rest of the class would hear that I was really stupid
because man would never put anyone on the Moon.
Fucking leftist queers.


not as conservative as Barry Goldwater.
Well said.  Barry was way too honest and plain-spoken to ever be elected
president .. 


	It followed the beating I got for questioning the bible, personally 
delivered by the good Reverend of my mother's Baptist Church.  I learned 
to keep my mouth shut, and to hate the abject applied ignorance of 
unquestioning faith very very much.
	My crime?  Noting that his sermon about the vessel in Solomon's temple 
that was 30 cubits around and 10 cubits across would have a pi of 3.  We 
had just covered pi in math class, and were Solomon's vessel couldn't 
exist in our universe.  I asked why the bible was wrong.
	It was only 25 years later that I got to piss on that raving asshole's 
grave, quite literally.
	I embarked on a search for a religion that made sense in my late teens, 
making my way through most of the Chisto/Judaic/Moslem sects, finding 
that they all believe pretty much the same silly crap.  Of all the 
religions I have found only the Wicca hadn't killed anyone recently, but 
do they ever believe in their own brand of silly crap.

 do they ever believe in their own brand of silly crap.
Well, I'm not interested in getting into a long debate about the merits
or believability of Christianity vs. anything else, certainly not in
this forum.
But I did want to say that I'm sorry you were treated so poorly in the
church. That was wrong, and I think most Christians would acknowledge
that.
Hope that you find (or have found) whatever it is that you're looking
for.

that was 30 cubits around and 10 cubits across would have a pi of 3.
The Indiana legislature once tried to pass a law that pi is 3.1
That was to be followed by a law that stated that all circles must
have 4 sides.


 economics don't change.
	"Growing up" has nothing to do with it. This sort of perspective
is just liberal self loathing. Humans are the way they are because it was
beneficial for them to be that way for the 99% of their existence before
overwhelming and large coercive social structures existed.
	The original TOS kind of had the right idea.
	Even if you did manage to impose this "socialist paradise" there
would be a good portion of the population (at least 40%) that would feel
the need to escape their guilded cage in a very Kirk-esque fashion. People
would be fleeing the Federation as if it were Blakes 7 Federation.
[deletia]
-- 
	Apple: because TRANS.TBL is an mp3 file. It really is!      |||
								   / | \


	Yep, the Church of Reality.  If it's real, we believe in it.

 wrote:

Ah, so we're in the same church.

 waiting.  History bears this out beyond any doubt.
You mean me or the Mad Mullahs?  Hitler and Stalin were two of the 
biggest mass murderers in history and they weren't believers in anything 
much other than themselves.


 
Obviously not, and those "pedophiles and homos" need to be persecuted to 
the fullest extent of the law...and perhaps a bit more.  (and no, 
persecuted was NOT a typo!)
Jeff DeWitt

 -Commander Lee Adama (show the respect)
This isn't a debate. Its a troll behavior. Everyone is free to prefer what 
ever series he want. Be and let be.
IMHO, StarTrek The NExt Generation is the best tv series ever. Its 
philosophical plots are way much sophisticated and mature then BSG will 
never be. But, its my point of view and this isn't a debate. 

 would have been a BG.
Well said!

persecuted was NOT a typo!)
The extent to which all the churches are infiltrated by these types of
people is not widely recognized. All it takes is a trip to the county
jail to see just how widespread it is.


 
I don't think the problem is nearly as widespread as some people would 
have us believe... and no matter how widespread it is it's still a very 
small percentage of the clergy.
Jeff DeWitt

 much other than themselves.
	Any believer of any stripe.  You guys are dangerous.  History 
demonstrates this quite clearly.


small percentage of the clergy.
You are wrong, although it does vary from sect to sect. Some sects
like the Jesuits are heterosexual. They are a bunch of alcoholics.


 Jeff DeWitt
-- 
	Truth is irrelevant as long as the predictions are good.      |||
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 them.
Most people on welfare live in rural areas and have seen their livelihoods 
displaced by more efficient agriculture production.  Markets (free or 
otherwise) have a tendency to do that to large groups of people without any 
real warning, especially those whose husbands leave them (with a passel o' 
young'uns) for greener pastures.
Are you suggesting that we, as a society, have no obligation to ameliorate 
the more destructive tendencies of the marketplace?  It seems to me that you 
either try to control the market (and fail) or provide a minimal safety net 
for those left out in the cold.  But maybe I'm just soft-hearted that way. 
:-)
If you still maintain that there is no place for welfare assistance, then I 
think we just want to live in two different societies.  If, OTOH, you are 
imagining the "welfare mother" image so successfully manipulated by the 
Reagan administration (and still in currency today), then here's a pretty 
well-researched and short (if biased in its presentation) article:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-welfarequeen.htm
 

 pretty well-researched and short (if biased in its presentation) article:
Yeah, I ignore all the propaganda from either side. No one (well, except 
perhaps a professional scammer) is getting wealthy via the welfare system. 
Just concede that your well-intentioned proposals invariably change the 
landscape that we're discussing.  Analogize to Heisenberg. 

Most people on welfare live in rural areas
Nonsense.  Most welfare recipients are urban, and the majority of them are
white (though whites do not make up the largest group per capita ..)

 things might be....
You haven't tried very hard, go to just about any Church and you should 
find people more then willing to share their experiences with you.  Here 
and now I am not one of them.
I suspect you are one of those people who would not allow themselves to 
be convinced anyway.  I was one of those myself years ago, but I outgrew it.
Jeff DeWitt
<BIG SNIP>


After the scandal the Catholic Church went through a few years ago I 
expect they are VERY sensitive to this problem.  Do you have any 
evidence that they aren't dealing with it?
Jeff DeWitt

 
What's being heterosexual (or an alcoholic for that matter) have to do 
with pedophiles?
Do you have any evidence to back your statement up or do you just like 
to bash Jesuits?
Jeff DeWitt

 wrote in message 
news:rrmta21nso4ojs3c6...@4ax.com...

Interesting!  I'd always heard that the South made up the vast majority of 
welfare recipients.  Time to check some facts.  Maybe I've been reading too 
loose a definition of "rural." 

evidence that they aren't dealing with it?
I heard that in accordance with the Pope's directive, the little kids
they bugger are warned that if they speak out, they will be
excommunicated.



I will stand up and say that I enjoy both.  I was too young to really
be into TOS, and TNG was my door into Sci-Fi.  My enjoyment of TNG was
never based on it's ideology.  Never based on what it's vision of the
future was.  Because all of the same problems that plague us in our own
time appeared on TNG.  While it wasn't Earth in fact, it still held
true to today's problems.
That said, the stories are what were important.  Not so much Continuity
or faith or any Left message.  But basic story telling.  I continued
with DS9, very heavily faith-based stories.  Especially when war
entered the equation. Not so much the actual battles, but the threat of
war vs faith.  How the worst can be brought out of the most devoted
follower in times of great peril.
That being said I tend to look at things like the bible as not
something to devote to or Chritianity in general to whorsip.  But as a
guide.  Something to read and learn lesson from.
Now moving from DS9 to VOY and ENT.  By far I took a step back from
Star trek after they added Seven.  It was VERY clear she was added as a
sole ratings grabber...and nothing more.  Now as a business decision it
was smart, since I clearly believe her appearance saved the series, and
gave it the full 7 year run.  ENT on the other hand took this and
rather than learning from VOY mistakes.  They made them all over again.
 What was worse they started the series and promised more sexy scenes.
I know they were trying for a broader audience.  But really in
retrospect.  The only people who are gonna watch Start Trek
"religiously"...are already Star Trek fans.  Your not bringing in a
populous into Star Trek with promises of sexy woman and sexy scenes.
I stand to this day saying, why screw over the fan base you already
have for the chance to bring in people who to that point were not
Sci-Fi fans.  The mistake was that they did not focus on the fans they
had, but rather the people who really didn't care.
With the failure of ENT.  BSG became an area that didn't have any rules
to follow, besides a few designs from the Original.  With no real
continuity to follow, because of the reboot, it became a story with no
blueprint.  Nothing to easily critique it from something done in the
past.  But they took the same premise as TNG, DS9, YOY, and yes, even a
little ENT.  To think they have not, is just being silly and naive.
The arrogance of TNG's ideology, the War / Faith nature of DS9, the
sexy-ratings grabber of VOY, and the anticipation of ENT in seeing
something "new".
BSG is a change of pace from ST.  But the elements are there.

 
So you DON'T have any evidence and are just Catholic bashing.
Jeff DeWitt

So you DON'T have any evidence and are just Catholic bashing.
The papal directive has been posted widely. You won't look at the
evidence.


 
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doesn't seem to support your position.
That's because you did not do your homework.
http://www.christian-witness.org/rcc/Criminales1662.pdf


 
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

Doesn't sound like it.
"Pope Calls Priestly Pedophilia Worst Form of Evil"
http://www.snapnetwork.org/news/vatican/Pope_calls_priestly.htm
"The abuse which has caused this crisis is by every standard wrong and 
rightly considered a crime by society: it is also an appalling sin in 
the eyes of God,"
"People need to know that there is no place in the priesthood and 
religious life for those who would harm the young,"
http://www.st-andreas.org/artikel/art51.htm
I suppose this is what you were referring to, from the left wing "Guardian"
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1469055,00.html
That letter was telling the members of the Church hierarchy how to deal 
with these kinds of allegations, it in no way suggested that the kids 
(or their families) shouldn't go to the police.
If that isn't it give me a link and I'll take a look, but the evidence 
doesn't seem to support your position.
Jeff DeWitt


does NOT support your position.
It is not possible to satisfy you. So I will drop the matter.
Enjoy the bliss you experience from being ignorant.


 
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


	Now that it's blown up in their faces, IN THE WORLD PRESS, after
40 DECADES of this BS going on? Sure. Even a company like Enron or Exxon
will clean up it's act if a house collectively falls on them and it becomes
painfully obvious that it's in their best interest to actually live up to
social norms or their own charter.
	What the catholic church does now really doesn't matter that much.
	Although, even now their reaction has been remarkably weak. They 
have been preying upon the weakest of those within their protection or
enabling it. There should be some Bishops burning in Rome. No real remediation
has yet transpired.
-- 
	Sure, I could use iTunes even under Linux. However, I have       |||
better things to do with my time than deal with how iTunes doesn't      / | \
want to play nicely with everyone else's data (namely mine). I'd 
rather create a DVD using those Linux apps we're told don't exist.

I am NOT a Catholic, I've got a lot of respect for that Church but I'm 
also well aware that it's run by human beings with all the failures and 
sins that we are capable of.
All of that being said it looks to me as an outsider that the Church is 
seriously trying to deal with a really ugly situation.  They handled it 
very badly in the past, but they, like we, can't change the past.
They BETTER be serious about dealing with it, because there are people 
who will do everything they can to destroy the Church if they get half a 
chance, including lawyers who smell blood in the water and politicians 
who (correctly) see religion as a counter to their power.
Aren't there any Catholics here who can speak more authoritatively about 
your Church then me?
Jeff DeWitt

 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services


I am NOT a Catholic, I've got a lot of respect for that Church but I'm 
also well aware that it's run by human beings with all the failures and 
sins that we are capable of.
All of that being said it looks to me as an outsider that the Church is 
seriously trying to deal with a really ugly situation.  They handled it 
very badly in the past, but they, like we, can't change the past.
They BETTER be serious about dealing with it, because there are people 
who will do everything they can to destroy the Church if they get half a 
chance, including lawyers who smell blood in the water and politicians 
who (correctly) see religion as a counter to their power.
Aren't there any Catholics here who can speak more authoritatively about 
your Church then me?
Jeff DeWitt


I am NOT a Catholic, I've got a lot of respect for that Church but I'm 
also well aware that it's run by human beings with all the failures and 
sins that we are capable of.
All of that being said it looks to me as an outsider that the Church is 
seriously trying to deal with a really ugly situation.  They handled it 
very badly in the past, but they, like we, can't change the past.
They BETTER be serious about dealing with it, because there are people 
who will do everything they can to destroy the Church if they get half a 
chance, including lawyers who smell blood in the water and politicians 
who (correctly) see religion as a counter to their power.
Aren't there any Catholics here who can speak more authoritatively about 
your Church then me?
Jeff DeWitt


DOOH!
Freaking news servers!
Jeff DeWitt


Please visit 
www.kenlayisalive.org
, an informative website devoted to
tracking the movements of the "late" Kenneth L. Lay, convicted felon
and former CEO of Enron Corporation.
You may send all of your reports to 
sigh...@kenlayisalive.org
 Americans for Equal Justice is providing this site as a public service
for all of those who demand that Ken Lay and other white-collar
criminals be brought to justice. We welcome and will publish any and
all relevant information on the whereabouts of Kenneth L. Lay.
Americans for Equal Justice strongly suggests that you not only report
your findings to us, but most importantly, to your local news outlets.
Please send any links to news outlets reporting your sightings to our
organization as well.
You may send all of your reports to 
sigh...@kenlayisalive.org
We here at Americans for Equal Justice feel strongly that the
possibility exists that Mr. Lay, like Hitler, Elvis, and Tupac before
him, has faked his own death in order to avoid any more unwanted public
scrutiny. If this is true, then it is our responsibility as good
Americans to bring this criminal to justice by reporting his
whereabouts to the proper authorities.
Thank you for your support,
Americans for Equal Justice
http://blogs.dfw.com/startle_grams/2006/07/who_knew_that_k.html


your Church then me?
I am a card-carrying altar boy from a bygonne era. Thank God they
queers didn't like me - they never came near me.
Maybe they knew I would out them if they so much as looked crosseyed
at me. It pays to be an upfront person sometimes.
When the queers came out of the closet after Vat II, it disgusted most
lay people and they left the Church in droves. Then straight clergy
left, leaving the queers in charge. That's when it really got out of
hand - no one inside watching what was going on.
In defense of the practices that occurred, it does take two to tango,
and without any direct knowledge from anyone who was involved, I
nevertheless believe that these children went along with the
perversions, whether homosexual or pedophile, because they had some
kind of desire, express or latent. It is hypocritical of them to come
back later and lay the blame solely on the clergy.
Not all of the perversion was homo/pedophile. Some of it was good old
fashioned heterosexual. Maybe this event signals society that it
should deal with adolescent sexuality in a more rational manner or
else it will seek a perverted outlet - like giving a girl a vibrator
on her 10th birthday.


criminals be brought to justice.
Why waste time on penny ante crooks like Ken Lay when there is an
entire country filled to the top with politicians, any one of which
makes Lay look like an altar boy.
Govt is the root of all evil. Put your efforts into tyrannicide.


Oh yeah, Ken Lay is hanging out with Elvis and Hitler....
If he is it's in Hell, not on this Earth!
Once again the Internet proves that some people have WAY too much time 
on their hands!
Jeff DeWitt


 wrote in message 
news:1151883737....@j8g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


If he is it's in Hell, not on this Earth!
If he's in Hell, why is Clinton still breathing?


 
	Because getting a little strange is a problem between a man and his wife?
	Because only a fool (are you blushing bob?) would equate Clinton's 
indescressions and the crimes of Lay?


They both screwed other people and they werent their wives.

As I'm sure you know not that many people are that upset with Clinton's 
"indiscretions", Hell considering what he is married to and what a slut 
he is it would be surprising if he DIDN'T fool around (can't say much 
for his taste though, Kennedy had Marylin and Clinton had Monica).
However getting in front of a judge, swearing to "tell the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth", and then proceeding to flat out 
lie, and for the purpose of depriving another woman of her civil rights.
Pretty disgusting, loathsome behavior, any of us would go to jail for 
doing the same thing, and we would deserve it.
Jeff DeWitt
Good GRIEF but we get off topic!



As I'm sure you know not that many people are that upset with Clinton's 


indescressions and the crimes of Lay?
LOL.
Clinton is a serial murderer, a serial rapist and a serial traitor. He
is a purjuror too. Lay was none of those.
The US suffered a net loss with Clinton. The employees of Enron
received a net gain. Those who mamaged their stock sold early when it
first began to fall, and they literally made fortunes.


doing the same thing, and we would deserve it.
Clinton routinely sent the IRA after anyone he did not like. He did it
to his call girls, to the women he raped, even did it to the NRA.


to his call girls, to the women he raped, even did it to the NRA.
IRA, Gracie?



IRS.




	Like I said, only a fool...


	Wow.  That's spectacularly stupid, even by your standards Bob.  What 
control are you claiming Clinton had over the Irish Republican Army?

 
	Ah, changing your tune Bob?  You of course have evidence of this, or 
are you just making oh so stupid claims (again)?

control are you claiming Clinton had over the Irish Republican Army?
<yawn>
Typo flames are so juvenile.


was I supposed to know what you meant?
<YAWN>
Fucking leftist queer troll.


 I am NOT a Catholic, 
Good for you because this evil cult is dangerous.