Newsgroup: it.sport.calcio
Titolo: Losing to Spain sucks

Once upon a time, the Spaniards were supposed to be our ‘poor
cousins’. While watching their WC matches, my mother would say: ‘Let’s
root for Spain. They are nice people. They’re like us.’ My grandfather
would add in nodding agreement: ‘Italians and Spaniards: una razza una
faccia’—same race, same face.
Such were the old days, twenty or so years ago. Nowadays, the
Italians’ benevolence towards their ‘poor cousins’ would sound
paternalistic and antiquated. The tables have turned: Spain’s economy
is expanding, ours is slowly declining. They’re apparently growing
richer than us, with a higher GDP and lower unemployment rates.
Spanish politicians and the press have recently started to boast the
EU statistics, bragging about ‘el sobrepaso’. A new unexpected rivalry
has emerged across the Mediterranean sea.
In football, the Spaniards are no longer supposed to be our friendly
relatives. Perhaps they had never really been the first place.
Instead, they’ve somehow become our bitter rivals. Even more so than
the French or the Germans.
This new state of affairs suddenly dawned on me during the Korean WC.
After the Azzurri had been eliminated by Ahn’s golden goal, I—like
anyone else in Italy—would blame the disaster on the abysmal (possibly
bribed) refeere, Byron Moreno. Naturally, the international press was
hostile to such ‘conspiracy theory’. Italy’s complaints were described
as ‘paranoia’, and Italians themselves as ‘bad losers’. To my great
surprise, the Spanish press was the harshest with us. Instead of
showing sympathy and compassion towards their cousins, they would
openly cheer our early elimination. It turned out that they regarded
us as nothing more than a ‘nasty obstacle’, and were unashamedly
delighted that the Koreans had gotten ridden rid of the Azzurri, no
matter how.
Naturally, I felt betrayed... ‘poor cousins’ my ass! Imagine you’re
English. Imagine you’re inclined to root for the Netherlands as the
closest England-surrogate. But then you suddenly find out that the
Dutch press rejoices at England’s defeats, shows no sympathy
whatsoever for your misfortunes, and describes English football as
‘boring’, depicting English players as systematic ‘cheaters’, ‘divers’
and ‘bad losers’. How would you react?
So, during the WC’s quarter finals of 2002, I found myself rooting for
Korea. I wanted Spain to lose undeservedly. I wanted blatantly unfair
refeering to cause the Spaniards much suffering. I wanted them to feel
what’s like to lose to a crappy team just because the referee has
decided that the hosts must advance to the next stage no matter how.
Everything went according to the script, and the Spaniards got their
lesson. I was glad.
I subsequently forgot about that incident, and got back to the bad old
habits. Once again, I and my Italian friends would root for Azzurri’s
Iberian cousins, ‘le furie rosse’. In the last few months, however,
the new Italy vs. Spain nonsense has exploded beyond unprecedented
proportion. After the Azzurri qualified for the knock out stage of the
EC, the Spanish press went into a frenzy. Everywhere, old pictures of
Tassotti’s elbow on Louis Enriques. Mammia mia! 'Italia, el nemigo de
siempre'! Vendetta is coming! ... Uh? Excuse me, my dear cousins,
where does this bitter resentment come from?
Well, my Spanish cousins, let me tell you something. ‘Surpassing
Italy’—in football, economy, culture, whatever—is no big achievement,
nothing to be really proud of. Italy is in deep shit. This is a
country run by a populist quasi-dictator; a country plagued by
pervasive corruption, politicized mafia, and rampant neo-fascism.
Italian football itself, despite the WC victory, has fallen in utter
disrepute, rigged as it is by match-fixing scandals. Bragging that
Spain has overcome Italy is like cheering for a fit athlete because he
can run faster than a guy in wheelchair. Very insensitive and mean, if
you ask me.
I sincerely hope that either Russia or else Germany will destroy that
damned over-hyped selección and, with it, the high hopes of the petty
and unsympathetic Spanish press. If this happens, I’ll buy el Diario
Marca and use it to wipe my ass.

Ahahaha ottimo post
-----------
You hate for the kids to think
that you've lost your cool


wrote:

POTD, or week, or month, or year, whatever.

 you ask me.
Even if all or some of this is true, it's vastly overstated.
Surpassing Italy in economy *is* a very good and serious reason for
joy, even if it may be in part because of italian troubles. Likewise,
getting rid of an old complex of loosing vs. Italy again is a very
valid reason for cheering. So, if the deep cause is political, so much
the better, it just goes to show that Spain's monarchical system seems
clearly better that the glorious italian republic.
What I get from all this, you liked them to be your poor cousins when
they were, well, your poor cousins: economically weaker, putting up a
fight but in the end loosing at football etc. Now that the wheel has
turned, suddenly it's not that nice any more.


wrote:
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Dude, live in the present.  Spain was the overwhelming favorite to win
that match and we almost pulled off a brilliant upset.  Donadoni was
smart to play for penalties.  Anyone who says otherwise is just
clueless about the sport.

Bravo, Aldo. Let me make a brief comment. Your main national sin is
vanity, ours is envy. That about summarizes the situation we're
discussing.
I agree that the situation is worsening, and for no real reason. A few
weeks ago I went to a northern Italian city where I have a house, and
went to get a haircut at the local barber. After the usual how's the
wife how's the kids pleasantries, the barber asked me about all the
bad shit towards Italy coming from Spain... Apparently two Spanish
businessmen had been at his barber shop recently and had been boasting
loudly and berating Italy. He told me he was tempted to go a little
heavy with the razor. From his point of view, these people were
aggressors.
We have to put a stop to this. It's bad enough what we have going with
the Portuguese, let's not start it with the Italians. This is bad
shit, it's getting out of hand, and there is no reason for it.
Football, of all things, should not be used for such spurious
purposes.
Best,
SMT

 wrote in message 
news:dacba3cd-f585-468b...@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
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Although Aldo remembers his family having been gracious victors, and it 
doesn't seem the graciousness has been reciprocated. IMO the vilification of 
Italy on this newsgroup has become persecution, and I find myself close to 
observing a hysterical mob howling for the guillotine. No people who ever 
lived on earth deserves that sort of thing. But as long as disaffection and 
unhappiness gnaw at people's intestines they will continue to vent, more or 
less at the nearest convenient target.
But there's nothing like a good argument, or should I say exchange of 
insults. :p 


Condivido tutto, quello che non ho tagliato lo condivido anche
abbastanza ... solo che a me personalmente piacerebbe più lavare i
panni sporchi in casa.
P.S. ovviamente ho tolto il crosspost
--
give me a doomsday machine and I'll raise the world

 has emerged across the Mediterranean sea.
Higher GDP nominal? Certainly not.
Higher GDP/per capita nominal? Certainly not.
Higher GDP PPP? Certainly not.
Higher GDP/per capita PPP? Certainly not.
No "sorpasso" occurred, untill now
At the most, we can talk of higher GDP per capita in Purchasing Power
Stadards (PPS).
In fact, Eurostat uses PPS (purchasing power standard), a fictitious unit
(used by the same Eurostat only) which should switch distortions off due to
differences in the price level in different countries, and this index has a
very specific and limited purpose if compared with GDP nominal (current
prices) and GDP PPP.
PPS is anyway determined on the basis of the PPP (purchasing power parity),
which usually improves the ranking of the poorer countries (as in poorer
countries prices are usually lower).
Here you can find a reliable source (International Monetary Fund), for
GDP per capita (current prices):
http://tinyurl.com/3uvake
and GDP per capita (PPP) :
http://tinyurl.com/4t6lhr
As you can see, Spain is still below Italy, in both cases.
Moreover, looking at the Eurostat report (
http://tinyurl.com/y5pyqa
), it
seems that newspapers are giving some wrong data: Spain is 104,5 (not 107),
while Italy is 101,7 (not 101).
Anyway, in 2008 it seems that Spain will go down to 101,6 (and Italy 98,4).
Finally, yes: using GDP-PPP (not PPS) Spain is much closer to Italy than
using GDP-nominal (although still below), but if you consider just GDP-PPP
(and not GDP-nominal) then you have to renounce definitively to join the G8
(which seems to be your maximum ambition, at the moment): actually, China
and India have already a GDP-PPP (not per capita) higher if compared not
only with I or E, but with F, UK and D too.
Just my two cent.
Anyway, good luck for EURO2008 :-)
Giancarlo


It's a little bit more complicated. Spain and others are under the
impression, which I also share, that Italy's victories were to a good
part undeserved. But this wasn't the point here. I certainly found it
exaggerated to compare the current spanish cheering about their
victory with "cheering for a fit athlete because he can run faster
than a guy in wheelchair." To be honest, I don't think even italian
fans would enjoy this. It certainly didn't look to me like a contest
between a fit athlete and a guy in a wheelchair. So I have to wonder,
who's the Italy-vilifier in this instance. :-)

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That said, I agree that the anti-Italy posting on this NG goes way too
far. (Myself excepted, of course. My anti-Italy posting hasn't been
related to this tournament at all.)


wrote:
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My friend, don't forget cycling and wine ; two more things the
Spaniards have surpassed their good friends the Italians.
         Andre


wrote:
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Can you show links to these economic woes of Italy's you are talking
about. Spain has not surpassed Italy in football at all. Untill a
nation can win a world cup they are just fillers. Italy have 4 world
cups to Spains 0. Your arguments make no sense.

 - Show quoted text -
Your aussies c an go fuck yourselves.

 - Show quoted text -
Wrong buddy. Spain has surpassed nobody. I beleive Italy is in the G8
who set monetary trends. Is spain????

 Marca and use it to wipe my ass.
I think Russia will beat Spain but I just hope it will be an open fair
match. Oops forgot the Italians are out so it will definitely be a
great match.

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It is called jealousy. Italy are ineed 4 times world champions. And 
have been runners up as well twice not to mention 3rd place and 4th 
places they have achieved. One time euro cup winners. Best league in 
the world, consider AC Milan most successfull club team of all time.
Italy is one of the few nations that has contributed more to man kind 
than most others. From art, to food, construction, science and 
technology. It is mind boggling. The Spanish, a fine people and nation 
no doubt pale in comparison.
It is human nature to piss on those at the top. The anti-Italy comments 
shown here in this news group are just an example of this behaviour.