Newsgroup: it.fan.marco-ditri
Titolo: Tiscali e peering italiano...

Ciao,
stavo valutando l'ADSL di Tiscali in ULL quale alternativa economica per 
connettività casalinga attratto anche dai 512 Kbps di velocità di upload.
Mi accorgo però che, nonostante Tiscali risulti membra di tutti i NAP 
Italiani (MIX,TOPIX,NAMEX), di fatto il traffico italiano passi quasi 
sempre dagli uplink provider (Level 3) o da qualche peer privato.
Trovo la scelta piuttosto discutibile...
che ne dite??
-- 
Alex

che ne dite??
Per questo motivo raccomando sempre di non comprare connettività da
Tiscali.
-- 
ciao, | Those people who think they know everything
Marco | are a great annoyance to those of us who do. (Isaac Asimov)

 Tiscali.
Ho voluto "perdere" un po' di tempo e ho scritto al loro indirizzo 
tecnico...qualche giorno dopo ho ricevuto una prima risposta dove mi 
chiedevano maggiori informazioni. e io ho scritto :
------
connected to 
route-server.ip.tiscali.net
 i'd performed some traceroute 
to the most popular ISP used from many of my customer (for your 
information i'm a network/IT consultant, I work for all kind of company 
from small to quite big I can say).
The tests I'd performed are to these ASes :
ITALIAN ASes :
Interbusiness (AS 3269)
Wind (AS 1267)
Fastweb (AS 12874)
COLT (AS 8220)
I.Net (AS 3313)
Mc-Link (AS 5396)
GARR (AS 137)
ITGate (AS 12779)
I'd noticed private peering with Fastweb,COLT,INet that's not so bad !!
but peering with important or "institutional" AS like Telecom Italia and 
Wind or GARR or minor but "well know" ISP like ITGate or MClink are in 
my humble opinion important to reduce latency and bottleneck...we know 
everybody here in Italy that "Telecom Italia" Uplink is always running 
near is capacity limit.
About Tiscali I don't understand why you are present at MIX, TOPIX and 
NAMEX and you don't use these NAP (especially the MIX) but probably my 
vision is too "Italian-centric" :)
------
ed ecco il reply di Tiscali:
you tried the routing from Frankfurt... not a good way to
test our routing inside Italy I would normally say...
We should see locally all you list below, and really all,
except Itgate. So I do not see your problem really to be
honest.
Tiscali International Network is a network doing 200 Gbit/s
of traffic when you combine all inbound and all outbound on
the customer ports (total). Us peering with all the local
networks would imply a lot of things, including backhauling
some 3-5 Gbit/s of traffic from the rest of our network to
Milan. The cost of that alone is eating any benefit extensive
local peering may have.
If you compare us to Level3, Sprint, Global Crossing or Telia
I would personally say our connectivity is much better in
Italy than theirs.
Also if you allow me to say that (no pun intended in any way!)
everyone does traceroutes and sees they go elsewhere. Yet I
fail to see and have for years not seen real proof of what
real effect the non- peering with ITGate has. We speak of tiny,
tiny Mbit/s here, and the additional rtt will give you maybe
500 kb/s download instead of 600 kb/s (if at all). Except for
the geek view or the feel- good of knowing ppl peer locally
I have yet to see a real case.
What use do we have to peer with even bigger local networks,
when 99% of our customers already peer with them themselves?
Mind you, this is just part of the background. It is a complex
situation indeed.
Insomma si atteggiano da Tier 1 provider... infatti dopo che gli ho 
spiegato che a me serviva poca latenza verso gli ISP Italiani per 
abbozzare una rete Voip mi scrive :
Well, doing VoIP over ADSL is probably a scary thought, but
I see your point. Tiscali in Italy has useful and good
connectivity but clearly a local networks that peers is
better than us in offering local routes etc. - no doubt.
But then, if we speak about BGP then buying from one local
player and also one 'real' internet backbone provider like
I consider Tiscali Int Network (Tinet) is one.
FINE
Il tutto per la cronaca!
Considero tuttavia lo "sbattone" di rispondermi argomentando un po' un 
segno di "cura" che al giorno d'oggi non va trascurato...
a voi conclusioni e commenti
bye
-- 
Alex

I consider Tiscali Int Network (Tinet) is one.
Chi gli compra una ADSL invece si attacchi.
