Newsgroup: it.arti.musica.classica
Titolo: [OT] Succede nei paesi civili

Berlino.
Un vescovo cattolico critica pesantemente la ministra della famiglia
(partito CDU, cioé cristiano-democratico)
Incazzo massimo del governo tedesco, che chiede dimissioni del vescovo.
Oggetto del contendere: gli asili. Il vescovo trova deprecabile che in
Germania i bambini vengano educati negli asili, il governo tedesco ne
costruisce a palate.
Zittito da tutti, e vaffa.
Succede nei paesi civili, dove i politici fanno i politici. E non i servi 
dei preti.
Succede.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,468031,00.html
Z

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Grande ! Dovremmo noleggiare per qualche anno i politici tedeschi per
dare una sistematina anche qua.
lux

dare una sistematina anche qua.
ci han già pensato una sessantina d'anni fa....................
-- 
rafrasnaffra
"hà ciù hà ciù zighiribì bambù hà ciù"

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:1172179700....@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
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E' dura è. O fate finta di non capire oppure siete bambini cattivi.
Il discorsoi parte da lontano.
C'era una volta, tanti e tanti anni fa, un antico palazzo abitato da un 
signore con la papalina, un bel cappellino rosso. Quel signore era tanto 
tanto buono. Dava da mangiare agli affamati, da bere agli assetati, dava 
conforto alle povere anime. Poi arrivarono dei signori che vicino ad una 
porta pia, della sua città, fecero una breccia. Entrarono dei militari che 
occuparono il palazzo del signore con la papalina. I manovali del misfatto 
successivamente si pentirono di questa bruttissima azione. Mentre i 
capoccioni ancora insistono. Erano dei barbari venuti da lontano.
Poi presero tutti i suoi territori, i suoi palazzi. Praticamente lo 
espropriarono di tutto quello che aveva per assistere alla sua gente. Gli 
lasciarono solo una chiesetta con un bel parco.
Nono pio, (nono, no nonno) non fece intervenire neppure, sotto consiglio 
anche della volpe "Gasparri", le guardie e si arresero immediatamente e 
disse: <<Tanto un giorno arriverà un uomo della provvidenza>>.
Solo nel 1926 qualcuno si ricordò di lui, che non era più lui il nono, ma 
l'undicesimo. Così sistemò alla meno peggio la questione. Era un 
tirannosauro rex, di nome Ben e cognome Nito, indirizzo Musso e città Lini. 
Era l'uomo inviato dalla provvidenza.
Adesso gli si vuole tappare pure la bocca. Il suo più umile servo è più 
istruito di centinaia di quei cattivoni che gli portarono via tutto. Questi 
non devono neppure pensare. Che democrazia è questa?
Nemmeno in una dittatura tirannegiante succede una cosa del genere.
La prossima volta provo a raccontarvi la storia con i fumetti se così non mi 
riuscite ancora a capire. Fatemi sapere.

"rafrasnaffra" <rafras...@deliiiiiiirioooooo.katamail.com.delirio> ha 
scritto nel messaggio news:ng5st2lr2e1huqm1j...@4ax.com...

L'ultimo "Paese Civile" che si conosce è l'Europa allargata dell'Impero 
Romano. Oltre 1500 anni fa. Poi siamo caduti nella barbarie più completa. A 
parte l'off topics, c'è anche un post fuori dal tempo da considerare.
Perchè non state attenti a quello che scrivete?

 riuscite ancora a capire. Fatemi sapere.
Subito.
La prossima volta puoi anche raccontarla con tatzebao o usando un 
araldo. Vedi tu.
La sostanza non cambia solo perche' a te non piace.
-- 
-- LAOCOONTE --

 -- LAOCOONTE -- 

 dava conforto alle povere anime.
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

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:9REDh.25988$aF5....@tornado.fastwebnet.it...

Cosa avrai da ridere!
Sei miliardario per caso? 

 Sei miliardario per caso?
Non parlo con gli idioti. 

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:WC3Eh.28312$aF5....@tornado.fastwebnet.it...

Scusi per la tarda replica Mr Cardenio.
Vuole che cambi pure lingua per non parlare con lei? Sir!
O preferisce Monsieur? Faccia lei. Questi Peninsulari sono davvero una 
schifezza!
Cosa vuol farci. Meglio nascere fortunati che ricchi. Lei è nato Italiano. 
Io sono del mio Popolo e me ne vanto.
Ne vado fiero. Ed ho stima delle persone in gamba del mio popolo e degli 
altri popoli. Mentre lei disprezza i suoi connazionali, pur amando la 
Patria, un oggetto. C'è chi preferisce gli animali alle persone. Lei Herr 
Cardenik preferisce gli oggetti alle persone.
De gustibus... 

 De gustibus...
E tutto questo da cosa lo deduci? Immagino che la premessa maggiore dei tuoi 
sillogismi dogmatici sia sempre la tua idiozia, che a tutto sovrintende 
nella tua miserabile esistenza di rompicoglioni. 

 wrote:
sè, figurati! L'altro giorno ho letto che ad un prete è stata
annullata la sanzione (ritiro della patente più 350 euro di multa) per
avere fatto i 110 in auto in una zona urbana (limite 50 all'ora). 
Il prete, furbacchione, ha fatto ricorso adducendo il motivo che stava
correndo per dare l'estrema unzione ad un moribondo... e HA VINTO! 
Il bello è che quando parlo con amici/conoscenti la maggior parte di
loro è a favore del prete... ho sempre più serie intenzioni di
trasferirmi in uno Stato laico perdavvero! :-((
ciao
DZ

 trasferirmi in uno Stato laico perdavvero! :-((
eh
forse col tempo anche in Italia....mah, non so
Son pessimista
Z

 Son pessimista
Se i bambini inziassero a sodomizzare i preti, cosa che mi auguro avvenga
molto presto, potrei anch'io essere ottimista. Mi sembra di ricordare che si
tratti di Aristofane: se tutto va male, forse facendo il contrario di tutto
le cose si aggiusteranno.

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:TCzEh.32193$aF5....@tornado.fastwebnet.it...

LOL
:-)
Z

 wrote:
grande! Siamo già in tre, potremmo fondare IHMP
(it.hobby.mangia.preti)!
saluti laici
DZ

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:45e3ecc...@news.libero.it...

LOL
volevano fondare un NG di cultura laica, alcuni mesi fa
E' iniziata una discussione-fiume su it.news.gruppi.
Tutto si è arenato perché nessuno è riuscito a mettersi d'accordo sulla 
definizione di laicità.
Per dire in che paese viviamo :-)))
Z

definizione di laicità.
dovevate chiamarmi, mi sono laureato l'anno scorso in filosofia morale
con un professore che è un esponente di spicco della massoneria
italiana. Lui si che ci capiva di laicità! :-))
ciao
DZ

 italiana. Lui si che ci capiva di laicitą! :-))
porca puzzola, la prossima volta ti coinvolgo.
E' andata avanti con post fiume e ogni volte gił risse.
Le definizioni da manifesto di NG devono solo essere sintetiche e chiare, 
imho.
Ma lģ stavano scrivendo la divina commedia...
Z

 Ma lì stavano scrivendo la divina commedia...
non basta dire "un modo di pensare e comportarsi che non preveda la
religione nel suo sistema di valori" ? la faccio troppo semplice
eh ...;-)

eh ...;-)
Già, ma io francamente non saprei che farmene di un un newsgroup di cultura 
laica. Molto meglio far rimuovere quelli di cultura cattolica e poi vedere 
se è proprio il caso di sostituirli. Secondo me, no. 

 DZ 

 Bisogna distinguere...
Uh uh uh. 

 se è proprio il caso di sostituirli. Secondo me, no.
non vedo perchè rimuovere ("far rimuovere"?) gli ng di cultura
cattolica: pruriti totalitari?E cmq anche dell'ng laico non me ne può
fregà de meno, io parlavo solo della definizione di laicità ...

fregà de meno, io parlavo solo della definizione di laicità ...
Ohi calma, la mia era quasi una battuta :)
Comunque, nessun prurito totalitario: hai mai provato a farci un giro? Sono 
molto trash. Io lo dicevo per quello... Poi francamente se un giorno mi 
svegliassi e leggessi sul giornale: forze ignote hanno nottetempo sterminato 
ciellini parrocchiani e boy scout del crocifisso, credo proprio che non mi 
lamenterei. Così come accoglierò con un sorriso la notizia della dipartita 
del cardinal Ruini. 

eh ...;-)
nooo, la fai trooooppo semplice!
Io avevo proposto la versione francese, contenuta nella costituzione. Molto
sintetica e chiara.
Non andava bene.
C'era uno che voleva a tutti i costi scrivere che in qualche modo non voleva
dei cattolici a discutere nel NG, un altro voleva dire che la laicità è un
modo di essere, per cui parlava anche del modo di pensare, di affrontare la
politica, la cultura, la storia, mia zia, la stazione di Radicondoli e il
baule della tu' nonna.
Una roba micidiale.
Cmq non è esatta la tua definizione, direi (perchè funziona per esclusione, 
una cosa da evitare sempre
:-))
Inoltre non si riferisce a qualcosa di istituzionale ma a un pensiero 
personale.
Terzo, un laico può benissimo fare riferimento a dei valori religiosi nella 
sua vita personale.
Semplicemente, sostiene che essi non debbano influenzare il legiferare dello 
Stato
No, bocciato anche tu :-)))
La laicità definisce il sistema di separazione del potere spirituale da
qello politico e amministrativo dello Stato (questa era la mia sintetica
proposta)
Ricopio la definizione francese
La laïcité désigne le principe de séparation du pouvoir politique et
administratif de l'Etat et du pouvoir religieux, ainsi que le caractère des
institutions qui respectent ce principe.
Selon ce principe, la croyance religieuse relève de l'intimité de
l'individu. Les convictions religieuses -ou l'absence de conviction- de
chacun, qu'il faut peut-être distinguer des options spirituelles ou
métaphysiques théistes plus ou moins indépendantes des religions, sont alors
volontairement ignorées par l'administration.
Z

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:FweFh.36642$aF5....@tornado.fastwebnet.it...

Non ci credi? 

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:0ufFh.36750$aF5....@tornado.fastwebnet.it...

Lunga vita a aua eminenza!

 Non ci credi?
Non č questione di credere o non credere. L'evidenza č che tu di massoneria 
non sai un beneamato. Oppure sě: come al solito sguazzi nelle feci 
dietrologiche di cui ti cibi come fosse ambrosia. Torna a guardare blu notte 
e non rompere piů le palle col tuo pseudo-pensiero politico. 

 volontairement ignorées par l'administration.
non mi freghi cara :-) la mia definizione è più generale perchè più
sintetica. Prima di tutto si parte dal presupposto che il privato è il
privato, e a me del privato non frega nulla. L'argomento del
contendere è il pubblico, e in generale la separazione fra privato e
pubblico. Questo io lo do per scontato (anche se a dire il vero nel
caso italiano non fa male ribadirlo.
E poi anche la definizione della Costituzione francese, che mi
riporti, praticamente ragiona per esclusione (e non vedo cosa ci sia
di male a ragionare per esclusione peraltro): "Le convinzioni
religiose, o l'assenza di convinzioni (...) sono volontariamente
ignorate dall'amministrazione"
ora vado, parto per la Francia (davvero) ;-) ergo non saprò se e cosa
mi hai risposto fino a domani mattina
ciao
c.

mi hai risposto fino a domani mattina
salutami Parigi, ho sempre nostalgia....
Z

 mettete daccordo. Tanto controllate tutto. Anche la piante di banane!
Continua a sfuggirmi il destinatario plurale delle tue tirate. 

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:8enFh.37843$aF5....@tornado.fastwebnet.it...

Se non conosci te il tuo padrone non posso farci niente. Si tratta solo di 
pura amnesia.
Il mio padrone è Dio. Anche se devo servire, qui in terra, e a collo torto, 
mi basta essere cosciente che lo faccio solo per incarico più alto. Avere 
un'altro uomo come padrone è da sottomessi. Avere un Dio come padrone è 
segno di riconoscenza verso chi ci ama.
Vale 

 Vale
Quindi io sono sottomesso ad un altro uomo e tu ad un altro uomo e a Dio 
contemporaneamente? Beh mi sembra che il piů sottomesso sia tu, se la 
matematica non č un'opinione. 

 sovrintende nella tua miserabile esistenza di rompicoglioni.
Open mind. Te lo dico in anglosassone, la tua Patria adottiva.

 Open mind. Te lo dico in anglosassone, la tua Patria adottiva.
ROTFL.. che evidentemente conosci ancora peggio dell'italiano. 

 correndo per dare l'estrema unzione ad un moribondo... e HA VINTO!
C'è qualcosa che mi ricorda Buddy Buddy, di Billy Wilder. Ma lì, siamo
in America, o mi sbaglio?
Ciao
Rudy
-----------------
rodolfo....@tin.it
http://www.dicoseunpo.it