Newsgroup: it.sport.calcio
Titolo: **BAN ENGLISH HOOLIGANS FROM EUROPE*********

How many more people should die because of those animals!!
Few days ago English hooligans again drunk and running amok, this time
on Istanbul streets caused street fights, causing two peoples death!
Yes the dead ones were English, but does it really matter? They
question is why is there always trouble when English supporters are
around?
I looked up other matches this Turkish team played in the preceeding
weeks.
They played against a Spanish team, nothing happened.
They played against a German team, nothing happened.
They played against an Italian team, nothing happened.
Why is there always problem with English teams? Reports say that they
got drunk, started hassling passer bys attacking shop windows, smashing
cars then they started fighting with their Turkish counterparts.
I have lost two relatives in 1985 Heysel in the hands of those English
barbarian animals, how long will UEFA and FIFA wait to ban them until
they get civilisized?
Roberto Calvi
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Before you buy.

 Few days ago English hooligans again drunk and
running amok
...<snip>
You silly little twat. I suppose you forgot to
scan your eyes over the following days papaers.
Both the Turkish Police, UEFA, and the Turkish
media (let alone most of the worlds) points the
finger at the Galatasary supporters- with there
intimidating banners, and police incompetence. I
don't deny there were some hard core Leeds
troublemakers, but it now appears even they
didn't start the trouble. The Turks (some of whom
notorious to the police) involved were in a bar
at the time, *apparently* heard English voices
outside and .....well we all know what happened
from there.
Im sorry if you have lost relatives in Heysel- it
was a sickening event. But you have got this bang
wrong.
I suggest you go home and read up on the matter.


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soc.culture.british
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...<snip>
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Diolch yn fawr,
Neil


 Few days ago English hooligans again drunk and running amok
...<snip>
You silly little twat. I suppose you forgot to scan your eyes over the
following days papaers. Both the Turkish Police, UEFA, and the Turkish
media (let alone most of the worlds) points the finger at the
Galatasary supporters- with there intimidating banners, and police
incompetence. I don't deny there were some hard core Leeds
troublemakers- notably without tickets, but it now appears even they
didn't start the trouble!!!! The Turks (some of whom notorious to the
police) involved were in a bar at the time, *apparently* heard English
voices outside and .....well we all know what happened from there.
Im sorry if you have lost relatives in Heysel- it was a sickening
event. But you have got this bang wrong.
I suggest you go home and read up on the matter.


 Few days ago English hooligans again drunk and running amok
...<snip>
I suppose you forgot to scan your eyes over the following days papaers.


Neil,
First, it is not very clever to spam this newsgroup by reply-posting 7
times to Roberto's e-mail.
Second, you claim Turkish public and media blaming the Turkish fans.
You are either lying or you are misinformed.
Turkish public sees this another event caused by English hooligans. We
all expect the murderers to get the punishments they deserve.
You may be right about the police not being prepared. Indeed, they do
not have much experience with the English hooligans and they never
thought they would run crazy in the middle of Istanbul provoking people
and attacking them. Such things never occured with Germans, Spaniards,
Italians, Israelis. They all came here, enjoyed beatiful Istanbul,
supported their teams, made jokes with their Turkish counterparts, also
got drunk, but most importantly they behaved themselves and remained
within the limits of being a human.
As far as Turkish public is concerned, two groups of animals fought and
some died, regardless of their nationality.


Such things never occured with Germans, .......
But the Germans, Dutch etc.. HAVE got a reputation haven't they. All
hooligans are as bad as another, "regardless of nationality" as you put
it.
As I have said in my last post, there was a sizeable 'Leeds' contingent
intent on causing trouble and ticketless. I know that. I know that
Leeds fans in the stadia were calling the Galatasary
fans/police, "scum". But I also saw TV pictures that night of people
seemingly unconnected to any such fights; eg a bloke of about 60 odd
having his leg bleeding heavily. And what about the photo of a
Galatasaray supporter infamously gesturing to the Leeds supporters on
Match Day that they would have their thoats cut.? That doesn't sound
sound like staying wihtin the limits of "being human".
My bottom line is the same as yours professes to be; that all
hooligans -regardless of nationality- should be dealt with by the
judicial system. But this was a case of swings and roundabouts. No one
side was without blame. And for anyone to think otherwise would be
wrong.
Neil.
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 like them, it's a sair scunner tae thole Ah s' sey at!
...I hope you're not implying that I'm English!
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How can you tell if a person is english?
Many of the players and supporters of scotland (for instance)
appear to have english accents.
Cheers JIM

,

That was my point:-) In response to my first post, Nick wrote;
".........It is just what I would expect from the English that after
trashing somebody elses country for them - and their media - to deny
that it was their fault! "
....so I assumed that he was making me out to be English in some way.
In truth I am anything but!! Plaid Cymru voter through and through (As
the 'taffy' bit of my email addy suggests, I'm a sheep-shagger).
Neil
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 have been all over.....nothing happened.
what planet do you live on?


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WHy just at club level? is that to exclude the last world and european
cups? Oh and lets keep politics and race out of it, these are far too
inflamitory for everyone, so that violence is justified. And now you
want to include just real violence???? That in itself shows that you
know you are wrong.
	John


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Roberto, I completely agree with you on banning English hooligans from
travelling in Europe until they become human beings again.
English hooliganism is to do with declining education level in UK, whose
percentage of educational spending on GNP is similar to third world
countries.
But, as long as UEFA keeps bending over for english hooliganism, there
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 > They played against an Italian team, nothing happened.
They played today against another Turkish team and someone was stabbed to
death.  Just saw it on the news.
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 Cheers JIM

 >
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 ...I hope you're not implying that I'm English!
Don't worry I'm not into making offensive comments
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 Scots language).
I can relate to that! When I was working for BT in Newport, South
Wales, we used to get senior management from London coming in on visits
and telling us to speak with a more 'accessible' (i.e. English) accent.
And it was not as if a Newport accent sounds remotely 'Welsh' at all!!
In fact its only recently that Welsh has been taught in schools; with
the 'ban' on using it (the Welsh Not) still in use up to the 1950's.
Anyhoo, sorry for being a bit off topic.
Neil.
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When i say petty stuff, i mean like someone getting arrested for
say being drunk.  That happens in almost every game everywhere in
the world.
I said club level in the message because that is the topic at the
moment, you can mention country level if you want.
I'm not putting an excuse over violence, personally i don't
understand why rival fans can't have a bit of banter, see the
funny side and let the two teams decide the argument o the
football pitch by scoring goals.  What I am getting at is for
people to back up their facts before shooting off their mouths
(or fingers in this case).  As mentioned before, NO ONE STILL
realy knows what went on that fateful night before the
leeds-galatasary match and yet some people are saying Leeds
Hooligans without no facts.
M
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The funny thing is that the call-centre industry is growing in Scotland
since people find a Scottish accent easier to understand. Also there was
a study a few years ago which showed that the most gramatically correct
and understandable english was spoken on the west coast of Scotland
(definately not Ayreshire).
I do however agree with what you are saying about dialect
discrimination. How many people associate a broad Scottish accent with
someone who has been drinking?
	John