Newsgroup: it.politica.internazionale
Titolo: notizie ZIONiste (Persio, studia e commenta, che ti danno ragione in tanti)

essendo noi amanti della soluzione Helen Thomas, cominciamo con la
stampa tedesca:
Get rid of Zionism
the local intelligentsia found a way to collaborate with the claims of
Israel's governments, leaving us today with both a right-wing
coalition and a right-wing opposition. ...
The vast majority of the intelligentsia trailed along behind the
generals and the politicians. That's how it is: Intellectuals work at
honing the government's arguments. Few of them dare to oppose it....
the claim that Israel faced an existential threat in 1967 was a
propaganda lie....
The "Land of Israel" is a phantasm. Withdrawing from "parts of it" is
presented as a "concession" even by supporters of the move. But the
only concession we needed to make, even back in 1967, was giving up
the messianic claim that this is our land, from the Bible, and
therefore we have a right to it. In comparison with this claim, the
Serbs, with their preoccupation over the Battle of Kosovo in 1389, are
rational, secular people...
If our fathers erred in their use of myth, we should part from it, for
the sake of our sons and daughters. We don't have to leave this place
or give up our lives. But for their sake, we have to get rid of
Zionism.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/get-rid-of-zionism-1.365648
The Israeli right's refusal to accept other versions of Zionism
 Israel’s right-wing has lately been stepping up its attempts to cover
up the fact that it has no vision for Israel's future - that all it
has in store for its citizens is further isolation and misery.
One way of doing so is Ronen Shuval’s recent op-ed arguing that the
Nakba is basically nothing but Arab propaganda. Shuval simply distorts
the history of the 1948 war by claiming, for example, that most Arabs
living in Palestine in 1948 had moved here to profit from the Yishuv’s
economic activity; he continues the myth that Arab leaders had called
for Palestinians to move away to allow for an Arab military victory.
Avineri, one of Israel’s leading historians of Zionism and political
scientists, points out that Zionism doesn’t need propaganda efforts to
distort the facts. The same has been argued by Tel Aviv University Law
Professor Meni Mauthner: Zionism can accommodate the truth about
history, and can integrate the story of the Nakba.
Shuval, the chair of an organization called Im Tirtzu, has made a name
for himself by trying to shut down liberal voices in Israel’s higher
education.
Israel’s right is not confident enough to accept the truth, and
instead propagates stories that no historian on earth would support.
It also can't bear the idea of citizens taking part in critical
discussion, as can be seen in another recent event: professors Yedidia
Stern and Susie Navot were recently informed by the ministry of
education that their membership in the professional committee on
citizenship studies at Israel’s schools was being terminated...
He said that the ministry of education had pressured him and his
colleagues to change the content of the "citizenship studies" program.
The goal: to dedicate half of this program to teaching history of
Israel and Zionism.
The innocent observer of this event might think that Yedidia Stern is
an Israel-hater or a proponent of what the right calls ‘Post
Zionism’ (I never quite understand what they mean by that). The fact
is that Stern is an observant Jew whose work has focused on the
question of how Israel can be both a Jewish and a democratic state. So
the question is why his presence is so threatening. This change was
pushed by Zvi Tsameret, chair of the pedagogical committee of the
education ministry, who was instated by education minister Gideon
Sa'ar....
I wonder how they will explain to students that Zionist luminaries
like Herzl believed that religion should play no role in the Jews’
homeland, and that Ahad Ha’am warned of the dangers of misusing
political power. I guess they will have to tell the students that
Herzl and Ahad Ha’am were in fact the first post-Zionists.
http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/strenger-than-fiction/the-israeli-right-s-refusal-to-accept-other-versions-of-zionism-1.365174
PLOF!
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israeli-jew-turned-catholic-priest-named-head-of-papal-court-1.365615
Netanyahu will not take part in any peace process that he cannot kill
by himself.
He has come to bury peace, not to praise it, and bury it he has, in
ringing tones, to the tune of standing ovations from Congress and the
coalition. He believes he's found the formula. And maybe he's right.
For Benjamin is an honorable man. So are they all, all honorable men.
http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/a-special-place-in-hell/vexed-over-obama-israel-67-lines-peace-just-ask-zuckerberg-1.365699
Meir Dagan's warn that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's is leading
Israel into disaster
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/ex-mossad-chief-s-comments-on-iran-place-him-on-collision-course-with-netanyahu-1.365619
passiamo alla stampa indigena:
I am a Zionist?!
I could never join the ZOA (Zionist Organization of America) as I
often find its positions repugnant and an anathema to Judaism. I think
they are cocksure of themselves and are certain that those who think
differently, wittingly or not, may be partners in the downfall of
Israel.
Other Zionists may not like the direction of these organizations (at a
recent wedding a woman seated next to me told me “J Street people
should die”) but it is only sheer arrogance that would suggest that we
are not fully committed to welfare of the Jewish people and to the
security of the State of Israel.
Regarding the desire to maintain a united, undivided, Jerusalem under
the control of Israel – I would ask: Which Jerusalem?  Over the past
decades we have annexed neighborhoods that were never a part of
Jerusalem. The area of Jerusalem has grown greatly.  How many Jews
have ever taken a stroll through Tzur Bahar or Jabl Mukaber?  Very few
that I know (other than those involved in dialogue).  And does Israel
have a pressing need to keep Shuafat within the municipal boundaries
of our Holy City? Even Avigdor Leiberman, whose form of nationalism, I
believe, borders on racism and hatred, is happy to split off parts of
Jerusalem.
http://blogs.jpost.com/content/i-am-zionist
La Grecia è fottuta
http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=223451
è una questione di religione? Abbastanza
42%: Rabbis worsen conflict with Arabs
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4075335,00.html
e adesso musica...
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4077103,00.html

 presented as a "concession" even by supporters of the move.
Beh, *è* (sarebbe) una "concessione": c'è stata una guerra, ricordi?
-- 
Namib
"I should never have switched from Scotch to Martinis"
(ultime parole di Humphrey Bogart)

Su questa materia che mi si dia ragione non mi da piacere, ma ogni segno 
che indica il diffondersi della coscienza di ciò che sta conducendo 
Israele al disastro è confortante.
-- 
Sostieni Rete ECO
http://rete-eco.it/it/sostienici.html

 Beh, *è* (sarebbe) una "concessione": c'è stata una guerra, ricordi?
Il punto è un altro, si parla di una entità: the "Land of Israel", i cui 
confini non coincidono con quelli lasciati delle guerre o dalle 
convenzioni.  Un fantasma, appunto, che viene evocato dalle pagine sacre.
Peraltro, se è vero che c'è stata una guerra, è anche vero che esiste un 
DI, secondo il quale ecc. ecc.
O sei anche tu per "riformare" l'ONU e il DI?


 Il punto è un altro, si parla di una entità: the "Land of Israel",
Se ne parla senza che c'entri: qualunque Stato si ritiri da un 
territorio occupato opera una concessione.


 avverra' mai: spero che te ne rendi conto.
Non credo che la potenza militare sia sempre e comunque una garanzia 
contro il disastro.
Questa è semmai l'illusione di chi pensa che il disastro possa venire 
solo da cause esterne quale una guerra, ma non è così. Basti guardare 
agli USA per averne un esempio.
Non c'è dubbio che Israele avrà sempre bisogno di forze armate 
efficienti e adeguate a fronteggiare ogni minaccia militare: l'area in 
cui si trova è tutt'altro che stabile e prevedibile, ma a mio parere ha 
molto più bisogno di buone relazioni con i vicini, che facciano da 
supporto alla sua sicurezza economica e al suo equilibrio sociale.


 territorio occupato opera una concessione.
A meno che occupare quel territorio non fosse illegale, nel qual caso 
non si tratterebbe di concessione ma di obbligo.
Ma stiamo parlando di cose diverse:
- la prima è il ritiro da un qualunque territorio occupato in seguito ad 
una guerra;
- la seconda è il ritiro da un territorio occupato che è considerato 
dall'occupante la sua "patria ancestrale" (hai sentito Netanyahu parlarne?)
Nel secondo caso si che il ritiro viene considerato dall'occupante una 
"concessione", qualunque cosa preveda il DI.
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 silenziose, more staliniano, o Putiniano.
perchè pensi che un milione di ebrei russi si sia trovato così bene in
Israele? Aria di casa...

 silenziose, more staliniano, o Putiniano.
L'iscrizione di chi ha delle opinioni difformi dalle proprie al partito 
dei propri nemici sta diffondendosi a macchia d'olio, su questo ng. 
"Trasversalmente", come si dice oggi.
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 annessione dei territori dopo il 1967 e' stata riconosciuta dalla CI.
Non credo che serva ricordarglielo: sicuramente lo sa.  Probabilmente 
però ritiene le ragioni degli occupanti prevalenti rispetto a quelle 
della CI e dei suoi organi.
Non per caso è molto considerato e benvoluto dai "sionisti" di IPI.


 essendo noi amanti della soluzione Helen Thomas
si dice pulizia etnica.


io preferisco chiamarla legge del vero ritorno


ma tu non ti intendi di legge del ritorno, ne' di distinzione tra vero
e falso.

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meglio non saper distinguere che spacciare per vero il falso...