Newsgroup: it.politica.internazionale
Titolo: L'Ungheria vuole Chavez!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1977485,00.html
Learn from our failures and create a socialist democracy
Eastern Europe remains condemned by its past to neo-liberalism, but
Latin America can break free if it pays heed to the lessons
Gyula Hegyi
Friday December 22, 2006
The Guardian
Eastern Europeans follow the leftward turn in Latin America with a
mixture of deja vu and bittersweet nostalgia. The headlines are
familiar - nationalisation of foreign corporations, free access to
medical services, state-financed homes for the poor, farming
cooperatives, rallies against US imperialism, and state-owned film
studios to provide revolutionary propaganda. That's how communist
regimes started in central and eastern Europe 60 years ago, enforced by
the Soviet Union but supported by progressive forces. The injustices of
former regimes were abolished: villages got electricity and healthcare,
universities were opened to working-class children, adults stopped
kissing the hands of priests. However, the price of social justice was
high: one-party rule, inflexible economic structures, ageing leaders
and a lack of wider opportunities for the younger generation.
In this sense, the present situation in Latin America has echoes of
eastern Europe's rejected past. And people in the former communist
countries are hardly getting reliable media coverage of the peaceful
revolutions of Hugo Chávez and Evo Morales. The governing Socialists
of Hungary share the Blairite concept of a "new left" based on less
state intervention and more market competition. A Hungarian Socialist
MP recently told me that he had two political idols: Che Guevara and
Margaret Thatcher. This was not a joke - just a logical consequence of
a country offering a neoliberal version of capitalism as the sole
solution to the crisis of the socialist system. Che is a T-shirt figure
even in Budapest, but much of his writing has never been translated
into Hungarian.
On the other hand, Latin America's left turn follows the failure of its
neoliberal experiments. Latin Americans have had enough time to
experience the consequences: the widening gap between rich and poor,
the growth of social misery and ruthless exploitation by western
corporations.
Hungary is currently facing two scandals. A western-owned corporation
tried to distribute rotten meat carrying forged expiry labels. Then it
was revealed that a German firm had transported thousand tons of
domestic garbage to illegal Hungarian depots. This was shocking news
for Hungarians, but Latin America has suffered similar treatment by US
companies for decades. In the "ideal" world of the free market garbage,
pollution, crime and exploitation move automatically from developed
countries to less developed ones. That's why, contrary to neoliberal
dogma, less developed countries need strong government and regulation.
So the ruthless capitalist past of Latin America is now the present and
near future for eastern Europe. Meanwhile, nationalisation of energy,
free education and healthcare, redistribution of funds to the poor and
many other reforms are offering a better future to Latin America. Of
course, Venezuela is far from being a "socialist state" in the way that
Hungary was before 1989, but the redistribution of wealth is in the
right direction.
The social interest in eastern Europe is similar: more equality, better
chances for domestic enterprises instead of foreign corporations,
generous social services. But unhappy memories of party dictatorship in
eastern Europe mean the word "socialism" still has negative
associations for many people. Only a small leftist minority in Hungary
genuinely thinks any kind of socialism could now replace capitalism
there without economic disaster. Thus the two peripheries of the
developed west - Latin America and eastern Europe - are currently
choosing diametrically opposed social models.
It's not for people like me to give advice to the leftwing leaders of
Venezuela, Bolivia or other Latin American countries. I can only speak
about my hopes for their future. But the experiences of eastern Europe
shouldn't be forgotten. One hope is that the reasonable nationalisation
process only goes as far as the energy sector and other international
or monopolistic corporations, since what is really needed is a mixture
of state control over the whole economy and enterprising spirit at the
individual level. Small- and medium-size enterprises are best kept in
private or cooperative hands, though of course kept under public
control through taxation and regulation of working conditions.
The mixed economy is an old dream of the progressive forces, but it
failed in both post-communist eastern and social democrat northern
Europe in the 1990s. Perhaps Venezuela and Bolivia, with their massive
oil and gas reserves, can create a healthy mixture of a state-planned
economy and private economic initiative. State property, cooperative
and private ownership can balance each other to minimise both rigid
bureaucracy and socially blind lust for profit.
At a political level I hope that the Latin American left will not only
maintain but also revitalise their countries' democracies. The lack of
competitive democratic elections was the greatest failing of the
postwar eastern European model. That's why its leadership became old
and rigid during the decades of its unchallenged reign. If the Marxist
parties of the present Latin American leaders have more centrist
rivals, with Social Democratic ideas, that will help to provide
alternatives for left-leaning voters.
Any serious progressive person would agree, for instance, that eye
operations should be free for everybody. The old Venezuelan bourgeois
regime, which forced tens of thousands of the poor into blindness
because of the country's profit-driven health system, richly deserved
to fall. The money that Chávez now channels to the poor was previously
stolen by the ruling class, and we shouldn't forget it. But the role of
the state in the economy or culture can and should be debated, even
among socialists.
It's good to hear, for example, that the Venezuelan government has set
up a state-owned film studio to balance the anti-government propaganda
of the reactionary media. But it would also be wise to maintain media
pluralism. The injustice of the past can be cured without giving
privileges to a new revolutionary party elite.
I strongly hope that the progressive forces of Venezuela, Bolivia,
Nicaragua, Ecuador and other Latin American countries are successful in
creating democratic socialist societies. But believe me, compañeros,
there is no democratic socialism without democracy - and the kind of
socialism that exists without democracy could kill your dreams for the
future. Otherwise I envy you: it's far better to choose the socialist
experiment with its unknown dangers, than to bury it because of past
faults.
· Gyula Hegyi is a Hungarian Socialist member of the European
parliament 
ghe...@europarl.eu.int

 bureaucracy and socially blind lust for profit.
Gia', "with their massive oil and gas reserves" e - dico io - con
prezzi di gas e petrolio alle stelle. Without - come in europa
centrorientale - la vedo dura.
Per gli stessi Venezuela e Bolivia se le politiche di Chavez e Morales
saranno efficenti nel cambiare la struttura dell'economia dei
rispettivi paesi, ad esempio innalzando decisamente il livello
d'istruzione, allora saranno un vero cambiamento. Se si limiteranno a
spendere in welfare - non dico sia male in se, anzi - e consenso i
profitti derivanti dallo sfruttamento delle riserve energetiche saranno
dei flop.
Come sia la situazione in Bolivia riguardo a cio' non e ho idea, e poi
penso sia troppo presto per farsi un'idea precisa, sul Venezuela -
invece - anche per recenti esperienze ho paura che non cambiera' molto
sul lungo periodo e che alle prime difficolta' - mettiamo un ribasso
del greggio - Chavez si trasformera' nell'ennesimo Caudillo. Spero di
sbagliarmi.
Palmiro Pangloss

 sbagliarmi.
non sarebbe peggio della gran parte dei leader occidentali neppure in
quel caso
PS il greggio non si ribasserà nei prossimi 10 anni.

speriamo che questo sentire comune si traduca in un allontanamento
dagli usa e dal libero mercato.

 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1977485,00.html
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questo e' un socialista che non ha nulla a che vedere con quella merda
goebbelsiana di corso magenta che si spaccia per socialista e per ebreo ma
in realta' e' un crocefrecciata scappato da budapest
-- 
Qultura politica di Tonibaruch su It.Politica.Internazionale :
"Oltre al cumswapping e al cumdodging, fai anche il creampie, 
porno-razzi-catto-somarello?" 
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 PS il greggio non si ribasserà nei prossimi 10 anni.
Speriamo.   Ne vale, letteralmente la vita del nostro pianeta.  Sia in
senso 
"ambientale" che politico.
GT