Newsgroup: it.politica.internazionale
Titolo: meanwhile in Georgia ...

Adzaria on alert: tanks on streets, reservists are preparing machine-guns 
03/16/2004 16:54 
State of emergency has been introduced in Adzaria, autonomous territory
formally being part of  Georgia, but in fact self-governed republic.
Curfew has been imposed for the entire autonomous territory by the
authorities of Adzaria. Actions of opposition - supporters of Georgia -
have been banned, the opposition was notified by the authorities about
this. 
Head of Adzaria Aslan Abashidze said that the republic is ready to protect
itself, but did not elaborate if full mobilization to the Army will take
place or not. 
At 7:00 am Msk there was an explosion on the railroad 15 kilometers from
Tbilisi. There are no victims, but the trains have been stopped in this
area. "Law-enforcers believe this is a diversion", said to reporters David
Bashaleinshvili, the governor of Mtsheta-Mtianedsy District of Georgia
where the explosion took place. Deputy Minister of State Security of
Georgia Amiran Mesheli  has already accused the supporters of Adzarian
Head Alsan Abashidze of organizing the explosion.  
There is information that two Georgian military ships are moving in the
direction of sea-port Batumi, the capital of Adzaria. They are likely to
intend to blocade Batumi sea-port from the Black Sea, said Interior
Minister of Adzaria Djemal Gogitidze. 
The conflict started on March 14.  Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili
tried to arrive in Adzaria and to campaign for the Parliamentary elections
(they will take place in Georgia on March 28), but his motorcade was
stopped on the border between Georgia and Adzaria by representatives of
Adzarian authorities and military (Mr. Saakashvili calls them "illegal
militant units"). After an argument the motorcade returned to Georgian
city Poti. The Head of Adzaria was visititing Moscow on that day. Aslan
Abashidze said that in Moscow he "was informing the public about the chaos
and turmoil happening in Georgia".
Georgian President was unlikely to reconcile himself with the humiliation
he had on Adzarian border. Being in Poti, Mikhail Saakashvili sent
ultimatum to Adzarian authorities. He requested "to give the opportunity
for Georgian President to go through Adzaria and meet its residents, to
stop prosecuting people in Adzaria for their political beliefs and provide
the conditions for conducting in Adzaria democratic elections in Georgian
Parliament on March 28".
President Saakashvili requested from Mr. Abashidze "to dissolve his
illegal military unit of 1,500 people and not prevent Georgian authorities
from controlling the sea-port of Batumi and frontier post Sarpi on the
border between Georgia and Turkey". 
Mr. Abashidze considers the intention of Georgian President to arrive in
Adzaria to campaign for elections as not legitimate. 
Adzarian authorities started giving weapons to the people subject to the
draft. After the command from Interior Ministry, such people will be
required to arrive at the assembly points "to provide resistance to
Georgian military". Adzarian TV broadcast the images of preparations for
defending the border with Georgia in the area of the river Choloki.
 
Georgian media reported that tanks and armored vehicles showed up on the
streets of Batumi - the capital of Adzaria.  
 
Russian troops in the Russian military base in Batumi have been put on
alert. However, Russian Army command ordered the military in Adzaria to
stay neutral and not intervene in the conflict.
Official representative of Russian Foreign Ministry Alexander Yakovenko
said that if military conflict takes place, it will be sole responsibility
of Georgia. "There are reasons to expect that Georgia will use force (to
Adzaria)", said Russian diplomat.  
 
In the morning on March 16 Moscow mayor Yury Luzhkov arrived in Adzaria
and conducted long negotiations with Head of autonomous republic Aslan
Abashidze.
Yury Luzhkov said to reporters he came to "support his friend at the
critical moment".  Representative of Russian Foreign Ministry said that
this trip was solely Luzhkov"s initiative, but expressed the opinion that
"if such a prominent politician arrived in Batumi, his visit must be used
for settling the problem".
However, Moscow mayor has not accepted the role of an intermediary for
this conflict so far.
"Georgia, not Adzaria is escalating the conflict. I am very sorry that all
is happening this way instead of negotiating", said Yury Luzhkov.
The primary cause of the conflict may be economic, namely Batumi sea-port
in Adzaria. Big amount of oil and cargo passes through this busy port.
In 2003 Batumi port shipped about 7 million tons of oil. 
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili reported that the port had been
blockaded along with blocking "the accounts of Adzarian authorities in
Georgian central banks. All these measures are directed to depriving
Adzarian authorities of their source of funding, and this will continue
until they come to their mind and comply with Georgian Constitution".
These measures will result in economic blockade for Adzaria.
Georgian Office of Public Prosecutor has brought accusations of criminal
activity against 10 high-ranking officials of Adzarian authorities. The
majority of these officials are relatives of Aslan Abashidze or his wife.
General Prosecutor of Georgia Irakly Okruashvili said that all these
persons would be announced on international wanted list, their bank
accounts in Georgia and foreign countries would be terminated. Various
charges have been brought against Adzarian officials, from dispersals of
peaceful demonstrations to  organizing assassinations and supplying
weapons to illegal military units, smuggling drugs and weapons.  
 
There is information on the reaction of the USA on the situation in
Adzaria. "The USA is concerned, but sees no need to intervene", said
Georgian Ambassador in Russia Konstantin Kemulariya at press-conference on
March 15.
 
http://english.pravda.ru/accidents/21/93/376/12280_Adzaria.html
Giochi di potere intorno ai tubi?
-- 
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 segnala gli abusi ad 
ab...@newsland.it

> Giochi di potere intorno ai tubi?
Su Limes di Gennaio c'è un'interessante articolo di Piero Sinatti:
"La Georgia fra Mosca e Washington -
Il paese ex sovietico inizia il dopo-Shevarnadze stretto tra le pressioni
russe e quelle americane. Le poste in gioco, dalla lotta al terrorismo al
petrolio. La questione delle regioni ribelli. Il disastro economico e i
piani di Saakashvili."
Ai russi non deve essere andato giù l'avvento di Saakashvili, uomo di
Soros e degli americani, dopo aver lungamente lavorato ai fianchi
Shevarnadze per far tornare nell'orbita russa la Georgia. Però non più di
tanto: ragioni geografiche, la dipendenza energetica e l'imperante
corruzione nel paese caucasico sono leve sempre attuali su cui contare o
problemi troppo complessi per non far diluire il fantastico consenso, 97%
alle elezioni, di qui godeva 2 mesi fa Saakashvili.
Tempo e pazienza si saranno detti in quel di Mosca.
"Gli Usa, nonastante i dollari, sono lontani. Mentre la Russia, le sue
materie prime, il suo mercato sono così vicini" concludeva Sinatti.
Di lasciar aperta la finestra temporale però gli states non ci pensano
proprio.
Tò:
Georgian MP: US to Base 18,000 Soldiers in Georgia
TBILISI, March 4. 18 thousand US soldiers will be based in Georgia, says
Georgian Labor Party head Shalva Natelashvili. He said that the soldiers
were land forces who were transferred from Germany to Iraq, but would
eventually be based in Georgia. 
He said both US and Russian soldiers would then be on Georgian territory.
Natelashvili said the US also plans to base a powerful radar system in
Georgia for tracing Russian Topol rockets. 
http://www.rosbaltnews.com/2004/03/09/65915.html
Sarà interessante vedere come si svolgeranno le cose.


 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:c37o3j$pqc$1...@news.newsland.it...

 stay neutral and not intervene in the conflict.
si ma non credo che se la Georgia attacchera' , la Russia rimarra' neutrale.
Ha troppi sfregi dei georgiani da rendere con gli interessi... (vedi
supporto logistico ai terroristi ceceni lungo il confine russo-georgiano)
E il controllo del porto di Batumi e' strategico per la Russia se non vuole
essere tagliata fuori dal business del'oro nero.
 
--------------------------------
Inviato via 
http://arianna.libero.it/usenet/

 supporto logistico ai terroristi ceceni lungo il confine russo-georgiano)
Lo stato georgiano concede basi ai wahabisti ceceni? Eppure mi pareva di
aver letto che le FFAA georgiane abbiano richiesto supporto agli USA per
addestrarsi alle operazioni antiterrorismo, supporto concesso tramite
invio di team di Green Berets, proprio per combattere i terroristi
attestati sul confine.
Ciao
Ale
-- 
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - 
http://www.Mailgate.ORG

 terroristi attestati sul confine.
Non è che i green berets sono la proprio per addestrare quei terroristi?

 wrote in message
news:4F_5c.72991$
O31.3...@news4.tin.it
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Si, con l'aiuto degli alieni dell'Area 51.


 addestrarsi alle operazioni antiterrorismo,
bisogna vedere chi intendono per terroristi i georgiani. <g>


 Si, con l'aiuto degli alieni dell'Area 51.
gli stessi che andarono in afghanistan e in pakistan ad addestrare i bin
laden contro i sovietici?
bye
s.


 fuori dai confini senza mandato ONU, su quali basi?
Evidentemente hanno leve più soft su cui agire:
http://www.russiajournal.com/news/cnews-article.shtml?nd=42963
BATUMI - A major route for Caspian oil exports was cut off on Tuesday as
tension between Georgia and its autonomous province of Adjaria came to a
boil, prompting the Adjarian port city of Batumi on the Black Sea to
declare force majeure on hydrocarbons exports. 
The Georgian Coast Guard ordered ships to lift anchor at Batumi and
proceed to the port of Poti in Georgia, as Georgia's new President Mikhail
Saakashvili declared a moratorium on rail shipments into Adjaria in a bid
to force the region to come under the authority of the central government
in Tbilisi. 
About 2,000 rail tank cars carrying oil and products are said to be
stalled along the tracks from the Caspian Sea port of Baku in Azerbaijan
to Batumi, and sources say the standoff is costing $2 million per day,
with cash-strapped Georgia also losing out from tariffs 
Adjarian leader Aslan Abashidze, who rejects Saakashvili's demands,
returned home from a trip to Moscow this week, and Moscow Mayor Yuri
Luzhkov visited Batumi in a show of solidarity. 
Russia has military bases in the region, and if civil war is to be
averted, much depends on Moscow's ability to persuade Tbilisi to leave
Adjaria alone. 
BP, which heads consortia that are building both the 1 million barrel per
day Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline and a parallel gas line, has said
that operations have not been affected by the upheaval, even though
sections of pipe for the Azeri section of the oil line have been shipped
in through Batumi. 
!!!
Nevertheless, the conflict puts a big question mark on the level of
stability in Georgia, and shippers still have to commit volumes to the
lines.
!!!
Ecco.
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 fuori dai confini senza mandato ONU, su quali basi?

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Ecco.
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 bisogna vedere chi intendono per terroristi i georgiani. <g>
I separatisti? I ceceni che si infiltrano (che poi e' quello che hanno
dichiarato)? Oppure credi veramente che l'esercito georgiano si prepari
a cacciare con le armi i russi da batumi? A proposito, che ci fa una
divisione russa a Batumi? Sei contrario alle basi NATO in Italia mi
stupisco che tu non sia contrario a quelle russe in Georgia.
Ciao
Ale
P.S. Ci ho ripensato, te lo dico subito: i georgiani IMHO hanno il
dovere di contrastare le infiltrazioni e, se non ne hanno i mezzi, di
cooperare con i russi nel farlo. Al contrario la Russia non ha alcun
diritto di intervenire3 militarmente in Georgia per questioni non
riguardanti attacchi che dal territorio georgiano partano verso la
Russia. Quanto alle basi russe la loro importanza per la Russia e' ovvia
quanto il fatto che ai georgiani stiano sulle scatole. Sulla
legittimita' delle basi e sul diritto dei georgiani di chiuderle e'
impossibile pronunciarsi pronunciarsi se non leggendo i trattati che ne
regolano l'esistenza. I georgiani, ovviamente essendo l'URSS finita da
tempo, hanno tutto il diritto di chiamare consiglieri militari da dove
vogliono.


 laden contro i sovietici?
Di presenza di SF USA in Afghanistan durante l'occupazione sovietica non
ho notizia. Per l'attivita' svolta in Pakistan, si, proprio loro. Non so
se addestrarono Bin Laden, credo anzi di no dato che a quei tempi non
contava una mazza, so che addestravano tutti i membri della resistenza
afghana.
Ma cio' cosa cambia rispetto alla situazione attuale? Credi seriamente
che gli USA addestrino terroristi integralisti islamici dopo l'11/9?


 che gli USA addestrino terroristi integralisti islamici dopo l'11/9?
di certo ne tollerano la presenza se questi hanno lo scopo di attaccare la
Russia in Cecenia. O e' un caso che i siti web, i centri di reclutamento e
di finanziamento del terrorismo ceceno ha copertura di Londra e
Washington? come mai non collaborano con i mandati di cattura verso i capi
ceceni all'estero che riparano in questi paesi o vengono ricevuti da
delegazioni del Congresso? 
O le vittime russe degli attentati sui treni, della metropolitana, nelle
case fatte crollare, nelle piazze , dei bus sono meno umani di quelli
"occidentali"?


 "occidentali"?
Inutilereplicare ad accuse cosi cretine.
Ale

 stupisco che tu non sia contrario a quelle russe in Georgia.
Mi stupisco che non tu sappia che fino al 1991 la Georgia era una
repubblica dell'URSS. Se ci sono basi russe evidentemente ci saranno
accordi con la Georgia. 
Pero' chi lo sa, potrebbero essere sostituiti dagli USA prima o poi, cosi'
non ti tranquillizzerai e non ti porrai piu' il problema <g>
 bye
s.
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 Inutilereplicare ad accuse cosi cretine.
 
se ti senti accusato sara' per una tua coda di paglia dato che potevi
rispondere solo con un si o un no.


 non ti tranquillizzerai e non ti porrai piu' il problema <g>
Se le basi saranno sgombrate secondo lemodalita' previste dai trattati 
(come Subic e Clark nelle Filippine) e gli USA saranno chiamati dal 
legittimo governo Georgiano che problema ci vedi?
Ale

 esempio? 
Non posso che darti ragione, ma il nuovo ministro degli esteri russo
Sergei Lavrov, ex delegato all'ONU, ha ribadito che le Nazioni Unite
rimangono il riferimento per le dispute internazionali e gli unici
legittimatori per azioni contro il terrorismo internazionale.
http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=559447&PageNum=0
UN to take center stage in settling conflicts - Lavrov
MOSCOW, March 17 (Itar-Tass) -- The United Nations should be given the
central role in dealing with international conflicts, Russian Foreign
Minister Sergei Lavrov told an audience of journalists in Moscow on
Wednesday. 
&#8220;In the modern world, where there exist such threats as
international terrorism and weapons of mass destruction the United Nations
alone has the unique legitimacy to extend assistance to countries in
settling the existing conflicts,&#8221; he said. 
&#8220;If the conflicting parties are genuinely interested in an early
settlement of disputes, the United Nations is the first instance they
should turn to for help. Only this organization is capable of acting as an
impartial mediator.&#8221; 
La cosa mi sorprende non poco.


 rispondere solo con un si o un no.
La *coda di paglia* de che? Mi ritengo offeso che tu creda che io 
consideri i terroristi cececeni combattenti per la liberta'.
Ale

 finalmente d'accordo su qualcosa.
Bel link. Ad esempio:
Mosca aveva piu' volte chiesto alle autorita' di Doha di estradare l'uomo
che considera responsabile della crisi con ostaggi al teatro Dubrovka di
Mosca nell'ottobre del 2002 e dell'invasione cecena del Daghestan nel
1999. Da piu' di tre anni Yandrapayev viveva in esilio nella capitale del
Qatar ed e' stato il primo ceceno a comparire, su richiesta della Russia,
in una lista in cui le Nazioni Uniti hanno inserito i presunti membri
della rete di al Qaeda. Quando un individuo o un'organizzazione viene
inserito nella lista, i 191 Paesi che aderiscono all'Onu sono obbligati a
congelarne i beni e a limitarne i movimenti
e mi piace sopratutto che il tipo deve aver avuto una paura boia di vivere
vicino alla grande base americana in Qatar. Tutti sapevano chi era e dove
era. Ah, la lotta al terrorismo!
Gente con mandati di cattura internazionale se ne va in giro come special
guests e come ospiti d'onore al parlamento tedesco, al Congresso Usa ...
Alla faccia della lotta comune contro la più grande minaccia alla nostra
sicurezza e alla nostra civiltà.
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 era. Ah, la lotta al terrorismo!
Credi che forze USA sarebbero dovute uscire dalla base violando il 
territorio del Quatar ed arrestarlo per poi consegnarlo impacchettato ai 
russi? Oppure dovevano farlo fuori direttamente?
Ale

 Ale
Hai ragione, la base la devono aver fatta sul tetto del palazzo
dell'ambasciata.


 dell'ambasciata.
?? L'hanno fatta su territorio del Quatar concesso dal governo del 
Quatar previo trattato.
Ale

 dell'ambasciata.
Evidentemente è convinto che se un terrorista si trovasse per Pisa, da CAmp
Darby uscirebbero schiere di corazzati americani per circondarlo e
arrestarlo...

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perche' e' risaputo che gli USA si fanno sempre moltissimi problemi nel
violare territori altrui, no? <g>
bye
S.
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 consideri i terroristi cececeni combattenti per la liberta'.
quello che credi non posso saperlo a priori, a maggior ragione che stiamo
discutendo su cosa sono i ceceni a cui si da la caccia. C'e' chi li dipinge
come tali. Vuoi qualche nome? Adriano Sofri ad esempio. Se i suoi articoli
non sono animati da livore anti-russo allora..
ripeto : potevi rispondere con un si o un no.
bye
Sergio
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 vogliono.
si. Non so se la stessa coda e' stata possibile o e' tuttora possibile in un
altra zona del mondo <g>
bye
S.
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 Poi sostituisci alla parola *Russia* le parole *Israele* e *USA*.
Ciao


 altra zona del mondo <g>
Quale zona? Nota che in passato "...stata possibile..." cio' era
impossible pressoche' ovunque causa guerra fredda.
Ciao
Ale


 Francia non ha fatto lo stesso con i BR et similia? Business as usual.
In effetti è il solito sporco business che mi aspetto dai demagoghi e
spocchiosi europei. Se lo fanno gli americani, gente senza boria e capace
di stare al mondo, qualche sospetto mi viene.


 situazione del genere, etichettando i secondi come primi per propaganda.
Ovviamente. Comprensibilmente la verità viene sacrificata con l'intenzione
di risparmiare qualche vita umana delegittimando quei guerriglieri
(Maskhadov) che non vogliono por fine a un conflitto che ormai sembra
insensato prolungare. E' comprensibile ma non credo sia giusto. Non si è
risolto mai nulla spazzando i rifiuti sotto il tappetto. Le bugie utili
sono una iattura immane.


 Sarà interessante vedere come si svolgeranno le cose.
http://en.rian.ru/rian/index.cfm?msg_id=4071890
GEORGIA-ADZHARIA: IS A COMPROMISE POSSIBLE? 
By Vladimir Kozhokin, director of the Institute for Strategic Studies, for
RIA Novosti 
If one wants to analyse the present critical situation in Georgia, then it
is essential to remember that for Tbilisi the state's territorial
integrity is an extremely painful issue, which plays on the mind of any
citizen, including, of course, the president. Quite possibly, no other
country has a constitution featuring so many articles focusing on
territorial integrity. Indeed, even its opening articles are devoted to
this matter. 
Article 1, for example, reads, "Georgia is an independent, single and
indivisible law-based state, confirmed by the referendum carried out on
March 31, 1991 throughout the territory of the country, including the then
Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic of Abkhazia and the former autonomous
region of South Ossetia, and the Act of April 9th, 1991 establishing the
independence of Georgia." 
The second article is also devoted to territorial integrity. It says that
the territory of the Georgian state is determined as of December 21, 1991.
There is a remarkable scrupulousness in the dates, names and facts,
because behind every date lies a desire to stress that Abkhazia, South
Ossetia and Adzharia are inseparable parts of the single Georgian state. 
Georgia's new president, Mikhail Saakashvili, is following the same path
that his predecessor trod. In 1992, Eduard Shevardnadze returned to
Tbilisi from Moscow and headed the State Council, and in August Georgian
troops moved into Abkhazia. Now we see that Georgian army units are again
being concentrated on the border with Adzharia. 
For any Georgian leader, solving the problem of the country's territorial
integrity means more than simply strengthening his own power. It also
signifies a place in the history books. 
Saakashvili inherited a devastating legacy: a ruined economy and corrupt
state machinery. He has to solve all those problems. However, in his
efforts to combat corruption, the president will have to enter very
dangerous territory. He has begun this battle with a few well-aimed blows,
primarily at his predecessor's family, but it will be far harder to go
further. 
At the same time, Saakashvili is faced with a political question, i.e. the
need to hold elections in a largest possible area of Georgia, which is
what he is fighting for today. 
Many experts believe that the attempt to solve the Adzharian issue is only
President Saakashvili's first move to establish Tbilisi's complete control
over the entire territory of the country. This has also been made plain in
the president's comments to the effect that the country could "not be held
hostage by individual feudal lords." 
President Saakashvili's decision to start the restoration of the state's
integrity with Adzharia is determined by a number of preconditions: 
* The autonomous republic has never left Georgia or declared its intention
to do so - it simply wants a special status within the Georgian state; 
* Adzharia took part in Georgia's presidential elections; 
* The Adzharian authorities do not have armed forces comparable with those
of Abkhazia; 
* The autonomy has no land border with Russia. 
These are the favourable factors that have prodded the Georgian leader to
establish Tbilisi's control over Adzharia in the first place. Should he
succeed in doing so, it would be an additional political and military
precondition for going on to solving the South Ossetia and Abkhazia
issues. So one can confidently assert that the steps taken with regard to
Adzharia are the first point in a plan to establish control over all
territories mentioned in the Georgian Constitution. It is quite possible
that this plan was drawn up with the help of external forces. However, the
Georgian head of state has to take all the responsibility for its rapid,
radical and, occasionally, over emotional implementation, as he,
unfortunately, seeks to solve problems using revolutionary methods rather
than long and difficult talks. 
In recent days, tension in relations between Tbilisi and Batumi has
reached an unprecedented level, teetering on the brink of armed conflict.
And if (God forbid) blood is spilt, the situation will fundamentally
change, as until now bloodshed has been restricted to South Ossetia and
Abkhazia, which was the great difference between these two autonomies and
the situation in Adzharia. In Adzharia, there has been no bloodshed, so
far, and it is extremely important that this dangerous line is not
crossed, as it will be far more difficult to resume the search for a
compromise if lives have already been lost. 
Is compromise possible now? It looks like it is. But time is running out
and the tighter the knot becomes, the more difficult it will be to undo
it. Indeed, although a compromise will benefit Georgia in any case, it may
mean losing face for Saakashvili in the near future. It is a real danger
for the president, who has to build up the state machinery, minimise
corruption and restrain the influence of criminal clans. He may expect
success in this undertaking only if he remains a popular politician, as he
was yesterday and remains today. If there is bloodshed, the two leaders'
search for a compromise will become too difficult and risky, because both
of them will be faced with accusations of betraying their sides'
interests. 
However, apart form territorial integrity, there is another difficult
matter for Georgia that receives less attention. Since it proclaimed
independence, Georgia has lost a considerable part of its population, as
many people left for other countries, in particular Russia, in search of a
better living. Many of them are not going to come back as long as there
are no signs of stability or a real economic recovery, because at present
people in Georgia simply cannot earn a decent wage. 
Georgia is a small country, and if hostilities break out, the number of
people fleeing the country, and not only the western regions close to the
potential conflict zone, will greatly increase. It is another challenge to
Mikhail Saakashvili. But for the time being, Tbilisi politicians are
thinking more about territorial integrity than about the daily concerns of
their poverty-stricken people. 
http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=563508
Saakashvili lifts sanctions from Adzharia as of mid-night
BATUMI, March 18 (Itar-Tass) -- Economic sanctions from Georgia&#8217;s
Adzharian autonomy will be lifted as of midnight, Georgian President
Mikhail Saakashvili said after talks with the autonomy&#8217;s leader
Aslan Abashidze. 
&#8220;The restoration of Georgia&#8217;s territorial integrity is to
begin with Adzharia,&#8221; President Mikhail Saakashvili stated here on
Thursday. 
&#8220;Adzharia will be free within a united Georgia,&#8221; he stressed,
addressing a meeting of his supporters here after the talks with Adzharian
Leader Aslan Abashidze. 
The two men held over three hours of talks. At the closing phase the
special envoy of the Council of Europe&#8217;s secretary-general, Plamen
Nikolov joined in. 
The negotiations were tough going, the press-service of the Adzharian
leader said
...
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 > Poi sostituisci alla parola *Russia* le parole *Israele* e *USA*.
dove e' la prova che sia stata Mosca? leggi : "Secondo il vicepremier
ceceno, Adlan Mgomadov, la morte di Yandrapayev e' da inserire in uno
scontro tra separatisti sulla gestione dei fondi dell'organizzazione
indipendentista."
Forse credi che le bande cecene non siano anche in contrasto tra di loro?
basta sapere che tra lo stesso Mashkadov e Basev non corre affatto buon
sangue.
Ripeto, secondo me non hai ben presente la situazione e la storia recente
della Cecenia e da cosa erano animati i vari capetti ceceni
ciao
S.


 insensato prolungare.
come si fa a dire che Maskhadov non e' coinvolto in tutti gli attentati che
hanno colpito i civili ? bastano le sue smentite?
ciao
s.
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 Sulla maggiore cautela dell'IDF non fatemi ridere...
Parlano le cifre, Sergio.
Per il resto come la penso in proposito l'ho scritto nei post 
precedenti, ripetere gli stessi congetti e' diventato noioso.
Ciao
Ale

 insensato prolungare.
come si fa a dire che Maskhadov non e' coinvolto in tutti gli attentati che
hanno colpito i civili ? bastano le sue smentite?
ciao
s.
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Inviato via 
http://arianna.libero.it/usenet/

 Quale zona?
proviamo nel continente americano? consiglieri russi ai confini degli
States?
ciao
s.
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 States?
Oggi? Ai confini non ce ne sono, ma il Peru  per tenere in piedi la 
flotta di aerei militari acquistati in URSS e Russia ci sono.
Ciao
Ale


non mi pare la stessa cosa...


 Parlano le cifre, Sergio.
quanti passanti sono crepati con l'ultima genialata di Sharon?
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