Newsgroup: it.politica.internazionale
Titolo: Razzi in salotto: intervista con un "civile" libanese

Un combattente part-time di Hezbollah e il suo arsenale tenuto nell'armadio: 
M-16, razzi anticarro, mitragliatori...
Ovvero della difficoltà di distinguere civile e combattente, sia per chi conta 
che per chi combatte.
Tb
http://hotzone.yahoo.com/b/hotzone/blogs7984
At home in a town in southern Lebanon, a Hezbollah fighter waits to be called to 
action.
By Kevin Sites, Fri Jul 28, 8:23 PM ET
Email Story IM Story
SOUTHERN LEBANON - Plumes of black smoke begin to fan out over the coastline in 
the distance. We ask someone in town what has happened. He tells us it's the 
power plant; the Israelis have struck it with a missile. But it's impossible to 
confirm because the roads leading to it were bombed early in the offensive.
In fact, Lebanon's main north-south road is so pocked with bomb craters, 
blown-out bridges and blasted highway spans that there is only one route left 
for drivers headed into Beirut.
Twisted cars and wreckage litter the roadside. Craters, some as wide as 60 feet, 
have filled with water and become small lakes.
Video
Hezbollah fighter reveals the weaponry inside his house» View
It is in this unfortunate but familiar reality for Lebanon that the new 
landscape is being formed — deepening current loyalties rather than shifting them.
Nowhere is that more clear than in the area I am traveling today, a Hezbollah 
stronghold north of the city of Tyre. Here, I am told, few families have fled. 
Instead, they are waiting for the call of Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan 
Nasrallah to come south to fight the Israelis.
And there do seem to be more people on the streets and more families still in 
their homes, compared with areas further south, where so many have joined white 
flag convoys fleeing the fighting — as well as the uncertainty of where this 
conflict may lead.
It's not a difficult or even particularly mysterious undertaking to meet members 
of Hezbollah. Politically, they are part of the current Lebanese government and 
have been highly visible throughout the country, particularly for the millions 
of Shias in Lebanon. But it is Hezbollah's militia with which
Israel says it is at war.
In the Mideast, many credit Hezbollah's militia with inflicting heavy losses on 
the Israeli Army and forcing Israel to withdraw from Lebanon in 2000. In the 
West, the group is widely condemned as a terrorist organization, supported by
Syria and
Iran.  It has been responsible for  numerous attacks on Israel, including the 
incident the sparked the latest conflict, as well as the bombing of the U.S. 
Marine barracks in Beirut in 1983, which left 241 servicemen dead.
Even its critics concede that Hezbollah is well-organized politically and highly 
disciplined militarily, and the two are woven together through common religious, 
cultural and social threads.
"They are an integral part of the fabric of Shia society here," a source with an 
intimate knowledge of Hezbollah who did not want to be identified told me. "It's 
a fallacy to think they can be cleaned out or eliminated."
I'm asked if I want to meet a Hezbollah fighter in his village and speak with 
him briefly.
We meet "Hussein" at his home and sit down to talk in his living room, while his 
four-month-old baby daughter lies on a blanket on the floor. He is in his late 
20s and has a calm face. He is polite but has a resolute sense about him that 
creates a cautious distance. Like many fighters, he says, he has another job and 
only joins the militia when he's needed.
But even though he's not on the front lines now, he says there is still a lot of 
work to do in the village — like looking for Israeli spies.
"We caught someone last night, he says, "sneaking around in the middle of the 
night."
I ask him how he knew the person was an Israeli agent.
A Hezbollah fighter's weapons stash
"He had two Lebanese passports," he says, "with the same picture but different 
names, and when we asked him a simple question he gave us a confusing answer."
"What do you do with 'spies' after you catch them?" I ask.
"We question them for a while," he says, "then turn them over to the (Lebanese) 
army."
As for the fighting in the south, he says it's not necessary for him to leave yet.
"I have a job to do and if the Israelis want to come inside," he says, "then 
we'll do our job and defend our families."
He shows me what he will use to defend them. In a closet in an adjoining bedroom 
he reaches into the top shelf and pulls out a green shoulder harness full of 
ammunition clips.
Then, from the corner of the closet, next to some shirts on hangers, he pulls 
out an American-made M-16 assault rifle and places it on the mattress in the 
room next to the ammo belt. He goes back to the closet and from the same corner 
reaches for a rocket-propelled grenade launcher and two canvas shoulder bags. He 
places these on the bed as well.
I ask if nearly every house in the neighborhood has a stash of small arms like this.
"Some have more," he says, pulling an AK-47 from one of the canvas bags and 
locking on a 30 round banana clip, named for its banana-like curve. "But the 
larger weaponry is kept somewhere else."
Not in the houses, he says later, but in secret places.
"Where does the M-16 come from?" I ask.
He says that Hezbollah buys all the weapons, sometimes even from the Lebanese Army.
He then pulls a grenade from the closet, screws on a cylinder of propellant 
behind it and then loads it into the grenade launcher. He shows me what has to 
be done before the trigger can be pulled to shoot it.
"Have you ever fired one of those?" I ask.
He smiles as if it were an obvious question. Yes, of course, he replies.
He then puts all the weapons back on the bed for a moment so I can photograph 
them. Although it's not uncommon for households in the Middle East to have at 
least an AK-47 around the house, it's incongruous to see the three rifles and 
grenade launcher beside a  baby's bassinet.
Just as quickly as he pulled them out, he puts the weapons back in the closet 
and we are done. But neither he, nor the rest of the neighborhood, knows for 
sure how long the weapons will stay there.

 conta che per chi combatte.
Di la verità, tb, avresti problemi di ordine morale a far fuori tutti i libanesi 
che non volessero marcare la differenza tra loro e hezbollah?

Persio wrote:

BOF. Che palla moscia.
Io auguro ogni bene ai civili, anche agli sciiti fanatizzati.
Ma diffido delle conte che si fanno in questi giorni. L'esempio mi pare che 
spieghi con una certa chiarezza il perché.
Ma i casi sono innumerevoli. Un macchina che torna dal lancio di un razzo, con 
dentro tre o quattro hezbollah in abiti civili, e viene polverizzata da un drone 
israeliano, saranno tre civili morti nel bodycounting (e quanto affidabile sia 
anche solo nelle cifre totali, si è visto anche nella tragedia di Qana, che 
tragedia rimane, ma è stata moltiplicata per due se non di più nelle sue dimensioni)
Tb

pare che spieghi con una certa chiarezza il perché.
Oltre al bellissimo esempio del conteggio dei morti di Qana. Qualcosa
che restera' ad imperitura memoria assieme alla strage di Jenin :)
-Stefano

 conta che per chi combatte.
Peccato che di gente come questa ma sulla "riva bianca" ne
tesseresti le lodi. In fondo pure i coloni usano parole
ed atteggiamenti da "belligeranti"...aggià! Ma loro hanno ragione ;-)
Ciao!

 Io auguro ogni bene ai civili, anche agli sciiti fanatizzati.
Mi stupisce quello che dici, eppure sembra che il 98 per cento dei libanesi 
adulti vogliano la distruzione di Israele, la sua completa cancellazione dalla 
carta geografica.

libanesi adulti vogliano la distruzione di Israele,
Un sondaggio fatto dalla Persio Sondaggi, giusto? :)
*ROTFL*
-Stefano

 cancellazione dalla carta geografica.
Sì, questo è quello che gli odiatori di Israeli si sforzano di credere.
Nella realtà, come credo di avere dimostrato, le posizioni in Libano sono molto 
più variegate e una parte non irrilevante del paese, in contrasto con Hezbollah 
che lavora per la guerra permanente, desiderebbe una pace duratura con Israele 
(e un robusto ridimensionamento di HA e della teleguida siriana-libanese che 
rendono il Libano uno stato dimezzato).
A chi desidera la distruzione di Israle e dei suoi abitanti auguro soltanto di 
cambiare profondamente, anche attraverso cocenti sconfitte militari. Come quelle 
che hanno portato ai nuovi rapporti con Egitto e Giordania.
Tb

 che per chi combatte.
lo stesso dicasi per i 200 e passa bambini uccisi eh goebbelsuccio?
-- 
visitate 
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http://cubainforma.interfree.it/
il film sul 9/11 : 
http://www.loosechange911.com/
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 M-16, razzi anticarro, mitragliatori...
Questo pero' dai minuteman in poi e' vero per qualsiasi guerriglia.
Palmiro Pangloss

 Questo pero' dai minuteman in poi e' vero per qualsiasi guerriglia.
Non dico di no. Dico che in una situazione di guerra/guerriglia come 
quella, distinguere e contare civili e combattenti è un'opera ad alto 
tasso di soggetività.
Tb 

 Giordania.
Se tu fossi un cuoco direi che non rispetti il palato e lo stomaco dei tuoi 
clienti, visto che proponi sempre la stessa ricetta.  E' stata apprezzata da 
alcuni ma non credo che possa essere apprezzata e digerita da tutti sempre.