Newsgroup: it.politica.internazionale
Titolo: Torture, phosphorus disclosures hurt US-Iraqi image (Reuters)

Chissa' se abbiamo aperto veramente il vaso di Pandora?
Am.
 Torture, phosphorus disclosures hurt US-Iraqi image
By Luke Baker  40 minutes ago
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A month before Iraq holds elections, Washington and 
the government it backs in Baghdad find themselves battling for 
credibility, rather than being able to tout progress toward democracy 
and human rights.
With the discovery of a torture bunker at Iraq's Interior Ministry in 
Baghdad, and the admission that U.S. forces used burning phosphorus 
weapons during their assault on Falluja a year ago, which officials had 
earlier denied, both parties are struggling for legitimacy in the eyes 
of Iraqis, analysts say.
The latest setbacks risk further undermining the case the United States 
made for going to war, more than 2-1/2 years after Saddam Hussein was 
overthrown in an invasion whose authors said it would spread democracy 
to Iraq and beyond. Instead the U.S. military still no nearer to 
defeating a bloody insurgency.
The revelations about the torture facility may also taint the poll set 
for December 15 by aggravating sectarian divisions.
"It's extremely damaging," said Abdel-Bari Atwan, the editor-in-chief of 
al-Quds al-Arabi newspaper and a frequent commentator on Iraq, referring 
to the torture bunker and the use of white phosphorus munitions in the 
Sunni Arab city of Falluja.
"It's the worst nightmare scenario for the Americans and the new rulers 
of Iraq because it undermines all their propaganda against the old 
regime," he told Reuters in London.
"Saddam's regime never pretended to be democratic or a champion of human 
rights. But the Americans are supposed to be the leaders of the free 
world, while those practising torture represent the new Iraq, which is 
supposed to be democratic and defending human rights.
"How can they face their people? They should be ashamed."
The Iraqi government, led by Prime Minister Ibrahim Jaafari, a Shi'ite 
Islamist who will struggle to hold on to his position after the December 
election, has promised a full investigation into what went on at the 
secret underground prison.
He said he was shocked by the discovery of more than 170 men inside, 
most of them showing the effects of malnutrition and torture. Almost all 
were members of the Sunni Arab minority, which broadly backs the 
insurgency but has also repeatedly been targeted by Shi'ite militias 
linked to the government.
At the same time, Sunni insurgents attack Shi'ites almost every day, 
with car bombs, assassinations and kidnappings.
TAINTED IMAGE
Washington is keen to bring the Sunnis into the political fold after 
they largely boycotted elections in January, leaving themselves 
marginalized. The hope is that political engagement will sap support for 
the insurgency and let U.S. forces go home.
The discovery of the bunker, originally by U.S. troops, has put the 
Shi'ite-led government on the back foot, and raised Sunni hopes of 
fairer treatment after months of accusing Shi'ite militias and police 
"death squads" of targeting them.
However, any political benefit emerging from the discovery of the prison 
for the Sunnis is overshadowed by the growing lack of trust Iraqis feel 
for their U.S.-backed government, and in U.S. forces themselves 
following the phosphorus admission.
"They promised transparency and honestly in Iraq but that was 
abandoned," said Hazim al-Naimi, a political scientist at Baghdad's 
Mustansiriya University, referring to the Americans.
"These new servants (the Iraqi government) didn't fulfill their 
commitments to maintain and respect human rights either... they followed 
the same road as Saddam's former regime."
While the Americans discovered the Interior Ministry bunker, and have 
expressed their shock and outrage that such detentions were going on, it 
has done little to improve their standing with Iraqis, who clearly 
remember events at Abu Ghraib prison.
And the latest admission, following earlier denials, that U.S. forces 
did in fact use incendiary white phosphorus munitions in Falluja last 
November has also hurt credibility.
While not classified as a chemical weapon, white phosphorus is an 
incendiary substance can melt through skin and clothes. International 
conventions ban its use in civilian areas.
For some analysts, the fact it was used in Falluja is merely the latest 
evidence undermining the U.S. venture in Iraq.
"It all adds up to ammunition you can use against the U.S. and Britain 
and about their aims in the region," said Rime Allaf of Britain's Royal 
Institute for International Affairs.
"Talk of democracy sounds very lame. They are losing influence," she 
added.
The weeks running up to the election could prove crucial, not just for 
relations between the Shi'ite-dominated government and the Sunni Arab 
minority following the bunker affair, but also between Washington and 
Iraq as pressure mounts at home for U.S. troops to withdraw and for 
Iraqi forces to take over.
The factor linking those two is the insurgency, and Atwan, the editor of 
al-Quds al-Arabi, believes recent events could fuel it. "The insurgents 
will point to this and say this is the democracy and human rights they 
are talking about in the new iraq... It will encourage some people to 
join the insurgents."

old regime," he told Reuters in London.
Altra puttanata .... visto e considerato che sono stati proprio gli USA
a scoprire il bunker e a liberare i prigionieri.
-Stefano

 -Stefano
Sorry, old boy, ma la cosa oramai e fuori dalla tua portata. Nel bene o 
nel male anche l'ordinario iraqui ne ha le palle piene del soccorrevole 
liberatore...
Non sei contento, tuo malgrado, di aver contribuito a questo risveglio 
delle coscienze?
Vedi che quando lavoriamo assieme facciamo le cose in grande?
Bwahahahaha!
Am.

Vedi che quando lavoriamo assieme facciamo le cose in grande?
Certo, certo... :)
*pat pat*
-Stefano

 liberatore...
L'iarcheno medio probabilmente sě, ma non il Governo di Vichy, piů reale del
re...
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/17/international/middleeast/17cnd-Iraq.html?h
p&ex=1132290000&en=31bda5f6c5faa240&ei=5094&partner=homepage
BAGHDAD, Iraq, Nov. 17 - American investigators plan to work with an Iraqi
commission to widen the inquiry into prisoner abuse by scrutinizing all
Iraqi-run detention centers across the country, American officials said
today. That announcement came in stark contrast to comments made earlier
today by the Iraqi interior minister, Bayan Jabr, who said that reports of
widespread torture and abuse at a secret prison in central Baghdad were
exaggerated.
Bye.
Namib

L'iarcheno medio probabilmente sě,
Certo, certo... :)
*pat pat*
*LOL*
-Stefano

 re...
Verissimo. e vero per il governo provvisorio.Tuttavia si sta andando 
alle elezioni e rispunta fuori Chalabi, che visita i suoi amici a 
Washington.
Bisognerebbe considerare le elezioni una truffa? Io dico che un 
qualsiasi governo che 'usasse' Abu Grahib e Fallujah per tenere a 
distanza gli americani,  forse darebbe la possibilita' ai Sunniti di 
considerarlo legittimo.
Dopotutto i sunniti possono bloccare, il processo politico, ma non lo 
possono vincere. Se riescono a tener fuori Chalabi e altri quisling, 
potrebbero decidere di giocare la carta dell'unita' 
nazionale,emarginando sia Al Quaeda, che gli americani.
E' un pensiero molto ottimista, pero' basato sul senso di umiliazione, 
il desiderio di pace e anche il patriottismo degli irakeni. Hanno le 
seconde riserve petrolifere del MO, inutilizzate. Potrebbero farcela.
Am.

farcela.
Certo, certo... :)
*pat pat*
-Stefano