Newsgroup: it.politica.internazionale
Titolo: Pasqua anglicana

"e il giorno di Pesach noi ebrei festeggiamo la cosiddetta fuga dall'Egitto (che ci trattava benissimo, tanto che uno dei nostri era principe) dei nostri antenati e l'arrivo nel deserto dove abbiamo vagato 40 anni prima di prenderci a mazzate per qualche secolo coi popoli confinanti per poi essere ridotti in schiavitù di nuovo e rimanere comunque sottomessi in tute le forme  per altri 3000 anni"
"e il giorno di Pasqua noi cattolicisti festeggiamo il nostro mago preferito e il suo trucco di escapism meglio riuscito"
"e il giorno di Pasqua, noi anglic..HIC"
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/easter-egg-gin-tonic-flavour-treat-kitchen-luxury-chocolate-launch-a8229151.html
 

 "e il giorno di Pesach noi ebrei festeggiamo la cosiddetta fuga dall'Egitto (che ci trattava benissimo, 
 
si sa che a te piace lo Stato mamma.

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non mi risulta che fossero mantenuti..:D

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facciamo che apri Esodo al 1 cap v. 8 e poi torni e ti spiego. 
 
 
 

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che conferma che non erano mantenuti dallo stato mamma, tutt'altro...

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che ad un certo punto le condizioni per gli ebrei si sono aggravate. Quello che non riesci a capire.

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E volendo si potevano anche migliorare, restando in Egitto. Ma quando comandano i Salvini dell'epoca, il risultato sono 40 anni di traversata del deserto, guerre continue coi vicini, e altri 3000 anni di sottomissioni varie.

 E volendo si potevano anche migliorare, restando in Egitto.
 
no. Dal momento che c'era un governante dittatoriale. 
 

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« Current scholarly consensus based on archaeology holds the enslavement and exodus traditions to be unhistorical. »

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Historical Reflexes (voce "book of Exodus")
Current scholarly consensus based on archaeology holds
the enslavement and exodus traditions to be unhistorical.
Indeed, the Book of Exodus itself underlines its unhistoricity
by its abundance of miracle tales and by not bothering to
name either the Pharaoh of the enslavement or of the exodus.
(The popular identification of the oppressor as *Ramses II is
based (a) on the mention of the city name *Ramses (2) (Ex.
1:11; 12:37; Num. 33:3, 5) and the “land of Ramses” (Gen. 47:11),
but the royal name Ramses itself was borne by 11 pharaohs of
the 19t and 20t Egyptian dynasties; (b) on the attestation of
a people “Israel” in Asia Minor on the stela of *Merneptah,
son of Ramses II.) What may be attempted is the dating of
the material of the book, which is bound up with the larger
question of the dating of the Pentateuch as a whole. Here, the
following indications, taken from the Book of Exodus alone,
may be collected:
a) The latter half of the “Song of the Sea,” particularly
the mention of Philistia, points to a post-settlement date (see
E. above).
b) 16:35 is connected with Joshua 5:12 and, like it, has a
post-settlement perspective.
c) The laws reflect a non-monarchic, tribal society of villagers
living on the soil. Blood revenge and self-help are recognized.
Neither the judicial system of the monarchy nor the
new categories of crime that arose under it are visible.
d) It has been proposed to see in the Exodus Tabernacle
a reflection of the Davidic tent-shrine (II Sam. 6:17), in which
the gorgeous cloths and lavish gold overlay would be more
credible as well (Cross, in bibl.). Alternatively, the Shiloh sanctuary
has been suggested as the ultimate model of the Tabernacle
(I Sam. 2:22; Ps. 78:60; cf. esp. II Sam. 7:6 on the pre-Davidic
home of YHWH), though the present description shows
strong affinities to the plan and furniture of the Solomonic
Temple (M. Haran). Most recently, affinities have been sought
with the Jewish temple at *Elephantine in Egypt destroyed in
the fifth century (Rosenberg in Bibliography).
e) The correspondence between the story of the Golden
Calf and that of the two golden calves set up by Jeroboam I
in Bethel and Dan (cf. esp. Ex. 32:4b, 8b; I Kings 12:28b) indicates
a genetic connection between the two. Since the Jeroboam
narrative evidently expresses the view of the Jerusalemite
orthodoxy (whose estimate of the calves is not attested
in north-Israelite literature before Hosea (8:5f.; 13:2), it may
be inferred that the present form of the Golden Calf story
reflects their polemic against the calves of the north. It can
therefore not be earlier than the division of the monarchy after
Solomon’s death.
f) Pithom, “house of (the god) Atum,” named along with
Ramses as one of the two “store cities/garrison cities” built by
the Israelites (Ex.. 1:11), does not appear as a city name before
the late sixth century B.C.E. As for Ramses, it is now known
that the great monuments from this ancient city (Egyptian Piramesse)
built at Qantir by the pharaohs of the 18t and 19t
dynasties were transported to Tanis and Bubastis centuries
later. The addition of these two names to Exodus 1:11 is an attempt
by Egyptian Jews in the sixth century or later to relate
the enslavement traditions to their own environment (Redford,
Wente in Bibliography).
g) In Exodus 28:42 priests are required to wear breeches
in order to protect against inadvertent self-exposure at the altar.
Breeches or trousers are a Persian invention. The earlier
pre-Exilic law (Ex. 20:23) required the more difficult elimination
of stepped altars to achieve the same goal of modesty
(Sperling in Bibliography).
The lower limits of the historical allusions and the inferable
backgrounds of the material in Exodus thus range from
post-settlement times to the earlier Persian period (sixth to
fifth centuries).
(Encyclopedia Judaica, vol 6, pag.622)
Come si fa a fare buona interpretazione delle favole se ancora non hai capito che sono, appunto, favole?

 Come si fa a fare buona interpretazione delle favole se ancora non hai capito che sono, appunto, favole?
 
perche', la proprieta' privata dei mezzi di produzione cosa e', se non una favola? Eppure non solo c'e' gente che ci crede, ma cho combina qualcosa di buono credendoci. 
Ora, torniamo al fatto che di questo mito non hai capito un cazzo e che vorresti che gli ebrei fossero schiavi dei non ebrei.

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readi my lips, rav. NON - LO -ERANO!

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lo erano, nel mito. E a te da' fastidio che quel mito abbia motivato il popolo ebraico all'autodeterminazione. Ecco, parliamone. Come mai? 
 
 

 enslavement and exodus traditions to be unhistorical. »
 
Segue parte della trascrizione che si trova at 
 
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/bibles-buried-secrets.html
 
============= 
 
MICHAEL COOGAN: We don't know exactly what it means and we don't know 
how it was pronounced, but it seems to have been the personal name of 
the God of Israel, so his title, in a sense, was "God," and his name 
was these four letters, which in English is "YHWH," which we think 
were probably pronounced something like Yahweh. 
 
NARRATOR: But Yahweh only appears in the Hebrew Bible. His name is 
nowhere to be found in Canaanite texts or stories. So where do the 
Israelites find their God? 
 
NARRATOR: The search for the origins of Yahweh leads scholars back to 
ancient Egypt. Here in the royal city of Karnak, for over a thousand 
years, Pharaohs celebrated their power with statues, obelisks and 
carved murals on temple walls. 
 
DONALD REDFORD: Here on the north wall of Karnak, we have scenes 
depicting the victories and battles of Seti the First, the father of 
Ramesses the Great. Seti, here, commemorates one of his greatest 
victories over the Shasu. 
 
NARRATOR: The Shasu were a people who lived in the deserts of 
southern Canaan, now Jordan and northern Saudi Arabia, around the 
same time as the Israelites emerged. 
 
Egyptian texts say one of the places where the Shasu lived is called 
"Y.H.W.," probably pronounced Yahu, likely the name of their patron 
god. That name Yahu is strangely similar to Yahweh, the name of the 
Israelite god. In the Bible, the place where the Shasu lived is 
referred to as Midian. It is here, before the Exodus, the Bible tells 
us, Moses first encounters Yahweh, in the form of a burning bush. 
 
VOICEOVER (Reading from the Bible "Revised Standard Version," Exodus 
3:5 and 15): Come no closer! Remove the sandals from your feet, for 
the place on which you are standing is holy ground. God also said to 
Moses, "Thus you shall say to the Israelites, YHWH the God of your 
ancestors... has sent me to you: This is My name forever, and this 
My title for all generations." 
 
MICHAEL COOGAN: So we have, in Egyptian sources, something that 
appears to be a name like Yahweh in the vicinity of Midian. Here is 
Moses in Midian, and there a deity appears to him and reveals his 
name to Moses as Yahweh. 
 
NARRATOR: These tantalizing connections are leading biblical scholars 
to re-examine the Exodus story. While there is no evidence to support 
a mass migration, some now believe that a small group did escape from 
Egypt; however, they were not Israelites but, rather, Canaanite slaves. 
On their journey back to Canaan they pass through Midian, where they 
are inspired by stories of the Shasu's god, Yahu. 
 
AVRAHAM FAUST: There was probably a group of people who fled from 
Egypt and had some divine experience. It was probably small, a small 
group demographically, but it was important at least in ideology. 
 
NARRATOR: They find their way to the central hill country, where they 
encounter the tribes who had fled the Canaanite city-states. Their 
story of deliverance resonates in this emerging egalitarian society. 
The liberated slaves attribute their freedom to the god they met in 
Midian, who they now call Yahweh. 
===========