Newsgroup: it.politica.internazionale
Titolo: Guerra all'Iraq: gli USA stanno cedendo di fronte alla resistenza

Funzionari del Pentagono hanno ammesso che importanti zone della parte
centrale dell'Iraq si trovano attualmente sotto il controllo dei ribelli
iracheni e che non si sa quando gli americani e l'esercito iracheno
riusciranno a rendere sicure queste zone. Per il capo di Stato maggiore
Myers probabilmente ciò non sarà possibile prima della fine dell'anno,
il tempo necessario di permettere al nuovo esercito iracheno di essere
in grado di affrontare i ribelli ma anche di aprire e concludere
trattative che portino ad una soluzione che non contempli l'uso della
forza, per adesso, dice Myers, gli Stati Uniti stanno lavorando con il
governo iracheno per sviluppare una strategia finalizzata a riprendere
il controllo delle città. I piani riguardano il tentativo di "isolare
certe comunità impedendo ai ribelli di riarmarsi e di rifornirsi" ma
anche di preparare il terreno per ottenere una vittoria in caso di
scontro, in sostanza bombardando depositi e rifugi e incoraggiando i
residenti a fornire informazioni sui nascondigli dei ribelli.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/08/politics/08policy.html?hp

 
Quindi non stanno cedendo un fico secco.
-Stefano

Gli Usa se volessero spazzerebbero via la resistenza in una settimana.
Saluti
Roll on!
---------------
Il quoziente intellettivo è inversamente proporzionale alla propensione nel
vedere complotti.
"Franco" <fra...@tinT.it> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:xGE%c.277866$5D1.12...@news4.tin.it...


 Gli Usa se volessero spazzerebbero via la resistenza in una settimana.
Il fatto che vorrebbero spazzarla ma non ci riescono da oltre un anno ti
dice nulla?

Il fatto che vorrebbero spazzarla ma non ci riescono
Se lo dici tu... :)
*LOL*
-Stefano

 Se
Oggi è stato superato il record di 1000 soldati USA morti.
Evidentemente, ad ammazzarli è stato il morbo di Montezuma o l'influenza.
ROTFL.

 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:413F1B02...@people.it...

Lo diceva anche Mussolini: entrò in guerra quando credeva che stava per
finire. Eppure Bush ha già spiegato che questa guerra durerà generazioni e
generazioni.


Infatti si divertono a farsi ammazzare...

 lo avrebbero gia' fatto ?
Se si trattasse solo di "spazzare via" le sacche di resistenza, gli
scontri sarebbero finiti da un pezzo.
Ma dato che si tratta di "spazzare via" le sacche di resistenza senza
ridurre l'iraq ad una distesa di crateri fumanti, le cose si fanno un
tantino più complicate.
Raffaele
-- 
Raffaele Castagno
questo articolo e` stato inviato via web dal servizio gratuito 
http://www.newsland.it/news
 segnala gli abusi ad 
ab...@newsland.it

 scontri sarebbero finiti da un pezzo.
Lo stesso accadde in Vietnam e ai russi in Afghanistan. Se si trattasse solo
di potenza di fuoco sarebbe facile...

 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:2q8k4hF...@uni-berlin.de...

Se non esistessero i media sarebbe già stata spazzata via da tempo.
Spero tu ti renda conto della dell'enorme potenza distruttiva che gli usa
potrebbero scatenare se non dovessero fare quello che nessun altro esercito
nella storia ha mai dovuto fare. E cioè preoccuparsi dei civili.

 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:2q8kntF...@uni-berlin.de...

Una cifra ridicola.
Nella guerra in Cecenia, se non sbaglio, di militari russi ne sono morti
ottantamila.



Si' fino a quando non sei TU uno di quei civili....
Allora si' che ti metti a correre verso la telecamera piu' vicina...

generazioni.
Se lo dici tu... :)
*LOL*
-Stefano

il modo di affrontare la situazione" ?
Chiedilo a lui.  Una frase avulsa da qualsiasi contesto e da qualsiasi
fonte mi dice men che nulla.
-Stefano

 -Stefano
ahh. il famoso postare nel contesto che te richeidi sempre...

Questa favoletta da dove esce ?
Dalla realta'.  Quella in cui tu non vivi.
-Stefano

Stefano De Cesari wrote:

E questi nomi sono non-esistenti, vero :
Listed below are names and events of military personnel casualties found 
in multiple global press releases and the US DoD.
2004
April 22:1 Spc. Patrick D. Tillman, 27, of Chandler, Ariz. - Killed when 
his patrol vehicle came under attack.
March 28:1
Army Command Sgt. Maj. Dennis Jallah Jr., 49, of Fayetteville, N.C. - 
Non-combat cause.
March 18: 2
Army Staff Sgt. Anthony S. Lagman, 26, of Yonkers, N.Y. - Small arms 
fire in Dehrawood.
Army Sgt. Michael J. Esposito, Jr., 22, of Brentwood, N.Y. - Small arms 
fire in Dehrawood.
February 25:1 Army Spc. David E. Hall, 21, of Uniontown, Kan. - 
Non-hostile accident in Kabul.
February 13: 1 Army Sgt. Nicholes D. Golding, 24, of Addison, Maine - 
T-46 (anti-tank) mine explosion, Ghazni.
January 29:8
An explosion in southern province of Ghazni, Afghanistan killed seven 
U.S. soldiers working near an arms cache:
Army Staff Sgt. Shawn M. Clemens, 28, of Allegany, N.Y.
Army Spc. Robert J. Cook, 24, of Sun Prairie, Wis.
Army Spc. Adam G. Kinser, 21, of Sacramento, Calif.
Army Sgt. 1st Class Curtis Mancini, 43, of Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
Army Staff Sgt. James D. Mowris, 37, of Aurora, Miss.
Army Spc. Justin A. Scott, 22, of Bellevue, Ky.Ê
Army Sgt. Danton K. Seitsinger, 29, of Oklahoma City, Okla.Ê
Army Sgt. Benjamin L. Gilman, 28, of Meriden, Conn.
January 9: 1
Army Sgt. Roy A. Wood, 47, of Alva, Fla. - Killed when the vehicle he 
was traveling in near Kabul hit another vehicle.
2003
November 23: 5
MH-53 U.S. helicopter downed in Afghanistan:
Army Sgt. Major Phillip R. Albert, 41, of Terryville, Conn.
Airforce Maj. Steven Plumhoff, 33, of Neshanic Station, N.J.Ê
Airforce Staff Sgt. Thomas A. Walkup Jr., 25, of Millville, N.J.
Airforce Tech. Sgt. Howard A. Walters, 33, of Port Huron, Mich.
Airforce Tech. Sgt. William J. Kerwood, 37, of Houston, Mo.Ê
November 14: 1
Army Sgt. Jay A. Blessing, 23, of Tacoma, Wash. - Killed in Asadabad 
from improvised explosive device.
November 12: 1 Suicide
Army Staff Sgt. Nathan J. Bailey, 46, of Nashville, Tenn. - Non hostile 
gunshot wound in Camp Arifjan, Afghanistan.
October 30: 1
Army Staff Sgt. Paul A. Sweeney, 32, of Lakeville, Pa. - Ambushed near 
Musa, Qalax, Afghanistan.
October 25: 2
Two CIA contractors were killed in an ambush as they tracked terrorists 
operating near Shkin.
October 3: 1
Army Lt. Col. Paul W. Kimbrough, 44, of Washington, D.C. - Died in in 
Incirlik, Turkey from of a non-combat related
cause in Baghram, Afghanistan. Evacuated to the 39th Medical Squadron 
where he remained hospitalized until his death.
September 29: 1
TEENAGER Army Pfc. Evan W. O'Neill, 19, of Haverhill, Mass. - Ambushed 
in Shkin, Afghanistan.
September 6: US soldiers reportedly beheaded by Taliban
Sources: 
http://www.afghandufund.org/android2_001.htm
 and 
http://www.rense.com/general41/casu.htm
August 31: 2
Attacked on patrol in Shkin, eastern province of Paktika, a few miles 
from the Pakistani border:
Army Spc. Chad C. Fuller, 24, of Potsdam, N.Y.
Army Pfc. Adam L. Thomas, 21, of Palos Hills, Ill.
August 29: 1
Army Sgt. 1st Class Mitchell A. Lane, 34, of Lompoc, Calif. - Lane fell 
approximately 25 feet
when he was conducting a fast rope infiltration into a known enemy cave 
complex.
August 20: 1
Navy Petty Officer 1st Class David M. Tapper, 32, of Camden County, N.J. 
- Killed in action.
July 9: 1 Army Sgt. Christopher P. Geiger, 38, of Allentown, Pa. - Non 
combat related cause in Bagram.
June 28: 1
Army Spc. Kelvin E. Feliciano Gutierrez, 21, of Anasco, Puerto Rico - 
Killed in Orgun-E, Afghanistan.
Suffered fatal injuries while trapped under his vehicle which veered off 
road.
June 25: 1 - Killed in action
Navy Interior Communications Electrician First Class Petty Officer 
Thomas E. Retzer, 30, San Diego, CA.
June 23: 2
Two U.S. soldiers were killed and another two injured in an attack on a 
U.S. patrol on Monday, June 23,
east of Afghanistan, eyewitnesses told IslamOnline.net. The witnesses 
said that a U.S. military vehicle
was patrolling Berouni square in the city of Asadabat, east of 
Afghanistan, and and drove over a landmine
planted by unidentified persons, who set off the mine through a 
detonator, causing the causalities.
May 17: 1 Army Sgt. 1st Class John E. Taylor, 31, of Wichita Falls, 
Texas - Heart attack in Kabul.
April 25: 2
Airforce 1st Class Raymond Losano, 24, of Del Rio, Texas - Firefight 
with enemy forces in Shkin.
TEENAGER Army Pvt. Jerod R. Dennis, 19, of Oklahoma - Firefight with 
enemy forces in Shkin.
March 29: 2
Airforce Staff Sgt. Jacob L. Frazier, 24, of St. Charles, Ill. - 
Ambushed in southern Helmand Province, Geresk.
Army Sgt. Orlando Morales, 33 - Ambushed in southern Helmand Province, 
Geresk.
March 24: 6
HH-60 Pave Hawk crashed:
Airforce 1st Lt. Tamara Archuleta, 23, of Los Lunas, N.M.
Airforce Staff Sgt. Jason Hicks, 25, of Jefferson, S.C.
Airforce Master Sgt. Michael Maltz, 42, of St. Petersburg, Fla.
Airforce Senior Airman Jason Plite, 21, of Lansing, Mich.
Airforce Lt. Col. John Stein, 39, of Bardolph, Ill.
Airforce Staff Sgt. John Teal, 29, of Dallas, Texas
Feb 5: 1
CIA Helge Boes, 32, Virginia - Killed in Afghanistan
January 30: 4
UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter crashed during night training mission, 12 
kilometers east of Bagram Air Base.
Army Sgt. Gregory M. Frampton, 37, California.
Army Chief Warrant Officer Thomas J. Gibbons, 31, Maryland
Army Staff Sgt. Daniel L. Kisling, Jr., 31, Missouri,
Army Chief Warrant Officer Mark S. OÕSteen, 43, Alabama
2002
December 20: 1
Army Paratrooper Sgt. Steven Checo of Elizabeth, NJ. - Unit came under 
fire while on patrol at Shkin.
October 19: 16
'Sixteen American soldiers were killed during a missile attack on an air 
base near the city of Host. Five missiles
were fired against the troops position. The missile attack spread panic 
among the soldiers. A special search
operation conducted after the attack proved ineffective.It was decided 
to immediately transfer 500 soldiers
from Kabul as reinforcements. In retaliation, US warplanes bombed 
targets in the regions of Damasar and
Lowar Mandi in North Waziristan.' Source: Dmitry Litvinovich PRAVDA.Ru
October 8: 1
Marine Lance Cpl. Antonio J. Sledd, 20, Tampa, Fla. - Died in Kuwait.
July 27: 1
Army Sgt. 1st Class Christopher James Speer, 28, of Albuquerque, N.M. - 
Killed in action.
June 21: 2 US soldiers killed, Wazir Spadigabad ~ Azzam Publications
U.S. and Afghan coalition troops tried to arrest two tribesmen and in 
retaliation, tribesmen opened fire.
June 21: 5 U.S. soldiers killed in ambush by unknown assailants while on 
guard duty, Gardez ~ Azzam Publications
June 19: 40 US soldiers killed, Birmil area ~ Islam Online Mashreq (Urdu 
Daily)
Coalition forces enroute to carry out an inspection and survey mission, 
six U.S. military vehicles destroyed.
June 12: 3 U.S. Special Forces Killed - Airfield at Gardez, Paktika.
MC-130H Air Force Special Operations aircraft crashed into mountains 
shortly after take off at night:
Airforce Tech. Sgt. Sean M. Corlew, 37, of Thousand Oaks, Calif.
Airforce Staff Sgt. Anissa A. Shero, 31, of Grafton, W.Va.
Army Sgt. 1st Class Peter P. Tycz II, 32, of Tonawanda, N.Y.
June 11: 1 Killed, US Military Base ~ Azzam Publications
Unknown attackers fired a missile on the military base at Zhawar that 
struck an ammunition dump.
The dump caught fire and spread, detonating other ordnance and causing a 
massive explosion. Confirmed by eyewitness
June 4: 5 US soldiers killed, Band Taimur ~ Azzam Publications
U.S. troops were set up by by local tribesmen who reported the supposed 
presence of Arab Mujahideen
so that they would attack and inflict heavy casualties upon their rivals.
May 24: 2 US soldiers killed, Khost ~ Azzam Publications
Road accident when U.S. military convoy of 600 soldiers where enroute to 
Khost
to resolve the dispute between rival warlords, Abdul Hakeem Tanwal and 
Bacha Khan.
May 22: 4 US soldiers killed, Paktia ~ Azzam Publications
U.S. troops were carrying out an operation upon a religious institution 
suspectingÊ Al-Qaida and Taliban fighters
were hiding there. Upon completion of the operation at the institute, 
the U.S. troops were returning back when
they were attacked by a lone youth, Hafiz Mewaan Jaan.
May 19: 1
Special Forces, Army Sgt. Gene Arden Vance Jr., 38, of Morgantown, W.Va. 
- Unit ambushed in Paktia.
May 8: 11 US soldiers killed at US base ~ Azzam Publications
A series of rockets fired from a BM-12 multiple rocket launcher scored 
direct hits
on buildings housing US troops at the airport base.
April 20: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed, Kandahar Airport ~ Daily Islam News
Suicide bomber dressed as a Special Unit Guard of pro-U.S. Governor of 
Kandahar, ignited explosives he was wearing.
April 18: 4 Canadian troops killed by US incompetance.
500 lb bomb released by a US ANG pilot who misidentified troops on 
exercise near Kandahar.
3rd Battalion Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry:
Sergeant. Marc Leger - Corporal Ainsworth Dyer  - Private Richard Green 
- Private NathanSmith
April 16: 5 U.S. Soldiers Killed, U.S. Base, Khost Airport ~ Azzam 
Publications
Mujahideen attacked the U.S. Base at Khost Airport using remote 
controlled rockets, killing five American
soldiers and injuring others, some critically.
April 15: 4 Killed - U.S. Base, Kandahar Airport,
107-mm rocket exploded whilst U.S. soldiers were disposing of captured 
weapons:
Army Staff Sgt. Brian T. Craig, 27, Huston, Texas
Army Staff Sgt. Justin. J. Galewski, 28, Olathe, Kan.
Army Sgt. Jamie O. Maugans, 27, Derby, Kan.,
Army Sgt. 1st Class Daniel A. Romero, 30, Longmont, Colo.
April 14:  1 US soldier killed, Regional Airport ~ Azzam Publications
Unknown assailants opened fire destroying an American military vehicle.
April 11: 7 US soldiers killed, Gardez ~ BBC Special Report
Lead to 'safe' road to the village when they were ambushed by Mujahideen.
April 11: 9 US soldiers killed, Gardez, Suicide bombing mission at US 
check point ~ Islam News
April 10: 1 US Solder Killed, Jalabad, Landmine Offensive ~ Azzam 
Publications
Landmine attack aimed at killing the Afghan interim government Defence 
Minister, General Faheem at Qalashi roundabout.
April 9: 1 US soldier killed, Grenade attack near a U.S. military post, 
Gardez ~ BBC
April 8: 7 US soldiers killed, surface to air missiles, Kabul ~ Azzam 
Publications
U.S. helicopter on route from Jalalabad to Kabul shot down by Mijahideen 
forces.
March 27: 1
Navy SEAL Chief Petty Officer Matthew J. Bourgeois, 35, of Tallahassee, 
Fla. - Stepped on landmine,
approximately 11 p.m. EST while conducting small unit training at a 
remote site near Kandahar.
March 22: 8 US killed, Kandahar, Tank exploded by anti-tank landmine 
near Kandahar Airport ~ Azzam Publications
March 13: 5 US killed, Logar, Mujahideen attacked a vehicle carrying 
American soldiers ~ Azzam Publications
March 12: 6 US soldiers killed ~ Azzam Publications
A motorcycle troop of Mujahideen ambushed a US convoy in Tehsil Sarbi.
March 12: 15-35 U.S. soldiers killed, Gardez ~ Azzam Publications and 
Islam News
Six US Helicopters shot down by surface to air missiles.
March 10: 8 U.S. Soldiers Killed, Logar ~ Azzam Publications
Mujahideen ambush a convoy of U.S. and Afghan allied troops that resulted
in the confirmed deaths of eight U.S. soldiers, including a US Major.
March 10: 3 U.S. Soldiers Killed, Kandahar ~ Azzam Publications
Mujahideen attacked an ammunition dump where fire broke out.
March 10: 14 US soldiers killed, Shah-i-Kot, Ambushed by Mujahideen ~ BBC
March 9: 13 U.S. Soldiers Killed, Logar ~ Azzam Publications
Unknown assailants attacked U.S. troops and security servicemen on guard 
duty.
March 9: 40 US soldiers killed - C-130 aircraft shot down, Gardez ~ 
Daily Islam
March 7: 1 killed, Shah-i-Kot ~ BBC
PO Roberts, 32, fell from a MH-47 Chinook helicopter that had been hit 
by a rocket-propelled grenade.
March 6: 5 German soldiers - serving as international peacekeepers, were 
killed while destroying
anti-aircraft missiles at an ammunition dump ~ BBC
March 6:  9/66 killed - Two/Four U.S. helicopters shot down, Gardez ~ 
Azzam Publications
March 6: 6 US soldiers killed ~ Azzam Publications
U.S. troops were cut off after losing their way in the snow covered 
mountainous region then attacked by Mujahideen.
March 5: 100 US soldiers killed - Shah-iKot mountains ~ Russian News 
Agency, Strana.ru.
Four US Apache AH-64D attack helicopters shot down during Operation 
Anaconda, ground attacks by Mujahideen.
March 5: 1 killed, Balochistan, Afghanistan border ~ Azzam Publications
A US Navy F-14 'Tomcat' fighter jet shot down over the 
Balochistan-Afghanistan border by hostile fire.
Of the two pilots, one was killed whilst the other managed to eject.
March 5: 3 US soldiers killed - Unknown assailants attacked Kandahar 
Airport ~ Azzam Publications
March 4: 7 killed in ambush at Takur Ghar - Shah-e-Kot Mountains in 
eastern Afghanistan.
Two Operation Anaconda transport helicopters shot down near Gardaz, then 
engaged in intense combat:
Army Spc. Marc A. Anderson, 30, Brandon, Fla.
Army Cpl. Matthew A. Commons, 21, Boulder City, Nev.
Army Sgt. Bradley S. Crose, 27, Orange Park, Fla.
Army Sgt. Philip J. Svitak, 31, Joplin, Mo.
Navy Aviation Boatswain's Mate-Handling Petty Officer 1st Class Neil C. 
Roberts, 32, Woodland, Calif.
Airforce Tech. Sgt. John A. Chapman, 36, Waco, Texas.
Airforce Senior Airman Jason D. Cunningham, 26, Camarillo, Calif.
March 4: 1 killed - Pickup hit by a mortar shell, E.Afghanistan, Gardez, 
Shah-e-Kot ~ NBC
March 4: 10 killed, U.S. Army helicopter shot down loaded with combat 
troops, E.Afghanistan, Gardez, Shah-e-Kot ~ NBC
March 3: 2 killed - Forces traveling in a three-vehicle convoy, hit a 
mine, Kandahar Air Base ~ Azzam Publications
March 2: 2Ê
Army Chief Warrant Officer Stanley L. Harriman, 34, of Wade, N.C. - 
Killed by mortar fire at Whale ridge,
Shah-e-Kot, accompanying Zia Lodin's blocking force in Op Anaconda.
Navy Lt. Cmdr. Christopher M. Blaschum, 33, of Virginia Beach, Va. - 
Died after ejecting from his F-14
Tomcat fighter jet, which crashed during a training exercise in the 
Mediterranean Sea.
Feb 17: 8 US soldiers killed ~ Azzam Publications
MC-130P transport plane that crashed in the remote mountain region north 
of Kandahar, after fired on by Mujahideen
Feb 16: 1 Australian soldier
SAS Regiment Sergeant Andrew Russell - Land Rover struck an anti-tank mine.
Feb 13: 1 killed - Bagram Air Base, 40 miles north of Kabul
Army Spc. Jason A. Disney, 21, of Fallon, Nev. - Fatally injuredwhen a 
piece of heavy equipment fell on him.
February 7: 6 Killed - Two U.S. Bradley fighting vehicles were destroyed 
by land mine booby trap, Mewand ~ Islam News
February 7: 7 Killed - U.S. warplane shot down by Mujahideen SAM-7 
missile, Dubandi Mountains, Sharkar ~ Azzam Publications
January 31: 25 U.S. Soldiers killed - CH-47 helicopter shot down by 
Mujahideen, Khost Airport ~ Daily Islam
January 30: 4 Confirmed Killed
A U.S. Army Black Hawk transport helicopter crashed near Bagram Air Base 
killing all four soldier on board,
the "Los Angeles Times" reported on 31 January. U.S. military spokesman 
Lieutenant  Colonel Martin Compton
said the official cause of the crash had not been determined - Names not 
released.
January 28: 4 Killed, ambushed by Mujahideen while on patrol duty, Lewa 
~ Azzam Publications
January 23: 4 Killed - A truck driver 'accidently' crashed into a U.S. 
Army vehicle, Mewand ~ Azzam Publications
January 20: 2 US marines killed, Bagram Airbase, N.Afghanistan.
CH-53E Sea Stallion helicopter made a crash landing in a remote region 
60 kilometers south of Bagram:
Marine Staff Sgt. Walter F. Cohee III, 26, from Wicomico, Md.
Marine Staff Sgt. Dwight J. Morgan, 24, from Mendocino, Calif.
January 9:  7 U.S. Marines killed, North of Bagram Airbase, crashed into 
a hilltop near Shamsi airport, Kharan.
KC-130/R Hercules transport plane shot down by Mujahideen using ZSU-23 
Anti-Aircraft cannons:
Command Pilot: Capt. Matthew W. Bancroft, 29, of Shasta, Calif.
Co-Pilot: Capt. Daniel G. McCollum, 29, of Richland, S.C.
Flight Engineer: Gunnery Sgt. Stephen L. Bryson, 35, of Montgomery, Ala.
Loadmaster: Staff Sgt. Scott N. Germosen, 37, of Queens, N.Y.
Flight Mechanic: Sgt. Nathan P. Hays, 21, of Lincoln, Wash..
Flight Navigator: Lance Cpl. Bryan P. Bertrand, 23, of Coos Bay, Ore.
Radio Operator: Sgt. Jeannette L. Winters, 25, of Du Page, Ill.
January 4: 1 killed while on patrol near Khost by a 14-year-old boy.
Army Special Forces Green Beret Sgt. 1st Class Nathan Ross Chapman, 31, 
of San Antonio, Texas.
This was the first death reported by western press.
2001
December 22: 50 US soldiers killed - U.S. helicopter and attack aircraft 
shot down by Taliban, Nawar ~ Afghan Press
December 17: 101 U.S. soldiers killed, Kandahar Airport ~ Institute for 
Islamic Research and Study.
Explosives were detonated by remote, radio control.
December 5: DoD - 3 U.S. Special Forces Killed By Friendly Fire.
B-52 aircraft bomber missed its target, during the advance from Tarin 
Kot to Kandahar:
Army Master Sergeant Jefferson Donald Davis, 39, Watauga,Tennesse.
Army Sergeant First Class Daniel Henry Petithory, 32, Cheshire, 
Massachusetts.
Army Staff Sergeant Brian Cody Prosser, 28, Frazier Park, California.
December 4: 1
Navy ElectricianÕs Mate Fireman Apprentice Michael J. Jakes Jr., 20, 
Brooklyn, N.Y. - Died in Northern Arabian Sea
November 29: DoD - 1 Suicide by American TEENAGER
Army Pvt. Giovanny Maria, 19, from New York - a Queens kid who was a 
fresh member of the ArmyÕs 10th Mountain
Division, had been in Uzbekistan a mere 10 days in November 2001, 
preparing to oust the Taliban in Afghanistan,
when he died from a shot in the temple with his own rifle.
November 29: 16 U.S. Marines Killed, Mazar Sharif ~ Frontier Post
Eyewitness accounts on the ground in Afghanistan as well as at a 
Pakistani base.
November 25: 1 Killed during the Qala-e-Nau prison uprising and 
subsequent massacre at Mazar-e-Sharif.
CIA paramilitary Johnny "Mike" Spann, 32, Winfield, Ala.
November 18: 2
Navy Electronics Technician 3rd Class Benjamin Johnson, 21, Rochester, 
N.Y. - Died in Persian Gulf.
Navy Engineman 1st Class Vincent Parker, 38, Preston, Miss. - Died in 
Persian Gulf.
November 17: 25-40 U.S. Special Forces killed ~ UPI
A U.S. administration official has said that between 25 and 40 U.S. 
Special Forces have been killed so far,
mostly in fighting around Kandahar.
November 8: 45 US commandos killed near Kandahar ~ Pakistani Frontier 
Post newspaper
According to the newspaper's data, 26 killed commandos have been 
delivered to the US-leased military base near
the Pakistani town of Jacobabad.The mission of the US commandos was to 
capture the base of "terrorist number one"
Osama Bin Laden located in the vicinity of Kandahar. The Americans 
managed to seize the base after a combat with
the Taliban troops, but they found neither bin Laden, nor any of the 
al-Qaeda commanders there. On their way back,
the helicopters came under heavy Taliban fire, which left 45 men killed. 
In addition, the Taliban Air defence hit a B-52
bomber, which was flying low altitude during the operation. Later on, 
the bomber crashed on the Pakistani territory
not far from the Dalbandin base, the newspaper reports.
November 7:  1
Machinist's Mate Fireman Apprentice Bryant L. Davis, 20, of Chicago, 
Illinois -
Fell overboard into Arabian Sea from the USS Kitty Hawk.
November 4: 50 U.S. soldiers killed - 2 US Helicopters shot down by 
Taliban, Kabul ~ Afghan Press
Oct 21: 90 U.S. soldiers killed in ambush by Afghan Mujahideen using 
explosives, Tahktapul. ~ Pak News
Commando operations carried out in Kandahar.
Oct. 19: 2 Killed in crash of Black Hawk helicopter in Pakistan.
Army Rangers Pfc. Kristofor Stonesifer, 28, of Doylestown, Pa.
Army Spc. John J. Edmunds, 20, of Cheyenne, Wyo.
Oct. 10: 1
Air Force Master Sgt. Evander Earl Andrews, 36, of Solon, Maine, killed 
in a heavy-equipment accident
in the northern Arabian peninsula. The first death in the Bush military 
campaign attack on Afghanistan.
Sources:
BBC - IAfrica - China Daily - Pravda - DoD - 
http://www.defenselink.mil/news

 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:lbednZKipIa...@texas.net...

Non hai capito un cazzo.
-- 


 -Stefano
-- 
------------------------------------
  God, root, what is difference ?
------------------------------------

 
detto da te e' un complimento, visto come le capisci tu le cose.


 Smettetela di dire puttanate per cortesia.
ahahaha peccato che in Afghanistan i russi volessero imporre la loro
autorità ai tempi mentre oggi l'afghanistan per gli usa rimane non un luogo
fuori controllo, ma praticamente inesplorato... Fuori kabul è tutto in mano
ai signori della guerra tribù e talebani...

 morti ottantamila.
Buahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha
Buahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha
Buahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha
Buahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha
Buahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha
Buahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha
Sbagliato... 6 milioni

E questi nomi sono non-esistenti, vero :
Domanda: ma tu conosci la lingua italiana o no?
Se si, prova a rileggere l'affermazione e prova a domandarti CHE CA**O
C'ENTRANO dei soldati morti nell'aprile 2004, tanto per fare un esempio.
-Stefano

Stefano De Cesari wrote:

Perche' sono soldati, morti nella guerra in afganistan.
La guerra non e' finita in un mese.
Guarda che non sono scemo, la capiso la differenza tra
 >>un mese ci hanno messo a prendere l'intero Afghanistan, con perdite
 >>>>>praticamente nulle.
e tutti i soldati morti *dopo* quel mese.
Ma mi spieghi che significato ha parlare delle perdite di un mese ?
"Oh, si, sono stati bravi e forti a non farsi ammazzare per quattro 
settimane.., che forti sti' mericani... "
Se sono li'da quasi tre anni e continuano a morire, ed ad avere meno e 
meno controllo del territorio... scusa.
Sonoincazzato come una bestia perche' Patrick Tillman che avevo 
conosciuto personalmente, anche se solo per pochi minuti, e' morto per 
che cosa, allora ?
(e si, lo so che e' stato ucciso da "fuoco amico"

 *QUI* : 
http://tinyurl.com/6vtdl
Irraggiungibile.
-Stefano

ed ad avere meno e meno controllo del territorio...
E questa puttanata da dove salta fuori? :)
*LOL*
-Stefano

Stefano De Cesari wrote:

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2004/tr20040907-secdef1281.html

 -Stefano
*LOL*

 come darti torto?
Sul fatto che sei un troll che altera i post degli altri?
Infatti non puoi in alcun modo darmi torto.  La prova e' ben documentata
qui sopra.
-Stefano

 The requested URL "/", is invalid
Non c'è peggior sordo di chi non vuol sentire. E' davvero incredibile che
quell'indirizzo non ti si apra, ma alla tua incapacità mi è facile ovviare
copiando ed incollando il testo da
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2004/tr20040907-secdef1281.html
Ora puoi leggerlo e contestarlo nel merito,  oppure trovare qualche altra
scusa patetica. Vediamo cosa sai fare.
****************************************************************************
****************************************************************************
******************************
Defense Department Briefing with Secretary Rumsfeld
            SEC. RUMSFELD: Good afternoon.   Last week, the people of
Russia, and indeed, the people of the entire world once again saw vividly
the extremes to which terrorists are prepared to go to achieve their ends.
Those who choose violence and terror obviously think nothing of taking the
lives of even the most innocent among us. The whole world watched as Russian
children were taken hostage on their first day of school, and hundreds were
killed, hundreds were wounded, and there are still open questions on a great
many more.
            Civilized people everywhere can only express sympathy and
solidarity with the Russian people. Extremists seek to terrorize innocent
men, women and children whoever they are and wherever they may live. There
are really no free passes in this struggle, this war; there are no free
passes for countries; there are really no free passes for individuals. And
for that reason, the civilized world has to stay on the offensive, and
that's exactly what the coalition is doing.
            Taking the offense, however, of course has its cost, just as
staying on defense has its cost. And soon the American forces are likely to
suffer the one-thousandth casualty at the hands of terrorists and extremists
in Iraq. When combined with U.S. losses in other theaters in the global war
on terror, we have lost well more than a thousand already. And we certainly
honor the courage and sacrifice of every man and woman in uniform who has
served in Iraq and who is currently serving there. And needless to say, we
mourn with the families of those lost.
            It should be noted that the civilized world passed the
thousandth casualty mark a long time ago. Hundreds were killed in Russia
last week to be sure. And this week, of course, on September 11th, 2004, we
remember the 3,000 citizens of dozens of countries who were killed on
September 11th in 2001. And September 11th, 2001 was not the beginning of
terrorism, and the war in Iraq has not created terrorism. International
terrorists declared war on the civilized nations of the world some time
back, and over the decades, they have killed many thousands of Americans and
citizens of other countries as well.
            And as we commemorate the third anniversary of the attacks of
September 11th, it's appropriate to honor the fallen and to reflect on how
far we have come and to determine what more might be done.
            Consider, three years ago Osama bin Laden was the co-conspirator
of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan. Three years later, the Taliban regime
is gone and UBL is clearly on the run. Three years ago, Saddam Hussein and
his regime were making a mockery of the United Nations, ignoring numerous
U.N. resolutions and calling on Iraq to report -- which was the resolutions
calling on Iraq to report honestly on its weapons program. The international
consensus for sanctions was weakening.
            The president faced a choice between confronting Saddam then or
facing an even graver threat in the future. Three years later, Saddam is in
jail, soon to be on trial, I'm told, the sons are dead, and the people of
Iraq are forming a representative government that will not threaten their
people or their region or the world.
            In the past three years, the United States and the U.K. have
shut down the A.Q. Khan clandestine network that had provided nuclear
technologies to Libya, Iran, North Korea and possibly other nations. Libya's
Qadhafi has given up his nuclear weapons program. And Pakistan, which once
supported the Taliban, is today our strong ally against terrorists.
            The progress in Iraq and Afghanistan has prompted a backlash, in
effect, from those who hope that at some point we might conclude that the
pain and the cost of this fight isn't worth it. Well, our enemies have
underestimated our country, our coalition. They have failed to understand
the character of our people. And they certainly misread our commander in
chief.  General Myers.
            GEN. MYERS: Thank you, Mr. Secretary. And good afternoon.  I
wish to extend my sincere condolences to the families of our forces who have
lost their lives or been wounded in the past several days.
            And I would also like to pass our condolences to these families
who have been devastated by the recent horrible terrorist incident in
Russia. This event emphasizes the importance of winning the global war on
terror.
            In Iraq, our forces are supporting the Iraq security forces who
are working to create a safe and stable country. We continue to be pleased
with the agreement reached between Prime Minister Allawi and Ayatollah
al-Sistani.  I think it demonstrates the growing strength of the Iraqi
interim government.  There has been a recent spike in the number of
casualties in Iraq on the part of U.S. forces, Iraqi forces and insurgents.
These have been primarily generated by both suicide attackers and
indirect-fire attacks. The enemy is becoming more sophisticated in his
efforts to destabilize the country, and recently we've seen an increase in
the number of suicide attacks. We are aggressively seeking and capturing
those insurgents who, while not willing to do so themselves, are encouraging
people to commit suicide attacks. Make no mistake, we will continue to pursu
e those who seek to disrupt progress in Iraq.
            Another example of the recent attacks is the weekend's attack in
Tall Afar, out by the Syrian border. While conducting cordon-and- search
operations, an OH-58 helicopter conducted an emergency landing as a result
of small-arms fire. An insurgent attack ensued that was more sophisticated
than usual. As a result, our forces attacked the enemy. Five of our soldiers
were wounded, one Stryker was destroyed and six were damaged, but numerous
enemy forces were killed. This is a pattern across Iraq. The more aggressive
the tactics of the insurgency, the greater their loss of human life.
            On another note, I recently visited the 101st Airborne Division
in Fort Campbell, Kentucky. I continue to be impressed with the enthusiasm
and the pride and commitment of these soldiers, both those who have served
in Iraq and Afghanistan and those that are getting ready to deploy. And in
addition to their families, I had a chance to have dinner with some young
soldiers and their spouses.
            And with that, we'll take your questions.
            SEC. RUMSFELD: Charlie?
            Q: Mr. Secretary, you say that the enemies have underestimated
our country -- the enemy have underestimated our country. There are critics
of the war in Iraq that might think -- you know, claim that the opposite is
true in Iraq, that we in fact have underestimated the enemy in Iraq. As
General Myers points out, the number of casualties -- not just the deaths,
but the number of casualties -- are going up at a rapid rate. And U.S.
forces, which are in fact the pillar and backbone of the Iraqi government,
are even prevented from going to some major cities in Iraq. With that in
mind, do you say that the United States is still winning the peace in Iraq?
            SEC. RUMSFELD: Charlie, there have been critics in every war in
the history of mankind, certainly all of those of the United States. And
it's understandable because it's serious business, and any time there's a
loss of life one has to recognize that there are going to be differences of
views.
            I think it's realistic to say that in probably Afghanistan and
Iraq both, as we move closer to elections in those countries, the
terrorists, the foreign regime elements -- in the case of Afghanistan, the
Taliban and the al Qaeda; in the case of Iraq, the former regime elements
and the terrorists -- are going to recognize how close they are to losing
their opportunities and how close they are to having democratic countries in
those two nations, and the likelihood is that they will increase the
violence rather than decrease the violence. You can imagine what a blow will
be dealt to the extremists that are determined to impose their view of the
world on everybody if in fact Iraq is successful and Afghanistan is
successful in having peaceful elections, electing people, and fashioning
constitutions that make them distinctively different in that part of the
world.
            So I think that the fact that there's violence there is
understandable. It's a tough, difficult business. On the other hand, the
people of Iraq today and Afghanistan are so much better off today than they
were a year ago, in every conceivable respect.
            Q:   So you would see that the U.S. military is winning the
peace in Iraq despite the fact that the military can't even go into some
cities there?
            SEC. RUMSFELD: I think the phrase "winning," "the U.S. military
winning" -- I think the question is ultimately, are the Afghan people going
to win back their country from the extremists? Are the Iraqi people going to
win back their country from the vicious dictatorship and from the terrorists
that are trying to take over their country? And I think in both cases,
they'll be successful.
            Q:   Mr. Secretary, can you say conclusively that Iran is
building nuclear weapons, and if so, are you sharing with Israel
intelligence about the construction and location of those weapons?
            SEC. RUMSFELD: That's a question for the intelligence community
to make judgments about. I don't make intel assessments.
            Q:   Mr. Secretary, you mentioned the thousand death mark
approaching. The number of U.S. troops killed per day is about two per day;
it's been about the same for roughly the last year. What does that say about
the resilience of the insurgency there? And was it underestimated?
            SEC. RUMSFELD: There's no question but that the resistance is
what it is. It is a combination of terrorists, former regime elements and
criminals that are being paid by terrorists or former regime elements. And
they are -- if you think about the fact that we have thousands of patrols
every day, the coalition does, and the Iraqi security forces, which now
number -- at the fully trained and fully equipped are close to 100,000, and
there are another large tens of thousands beyond that that are not quite
fully trained or fully equipped. If you take all of those patrols, and look
at the number of incidents, they're relatively small. If you look at them
from our standpoint, a single loss of life is large, and it's a life that's
not going to be lived. I don't know how to calculate it or calibrate it for
you any better than that.
            Q:   Mr. Secretary - 0
            SEC. RUMSFELD: Yes.
            Q:   To go back to your opening, could you explain how the
terrorist actions at the school in Russia are related to the United States,
other than the fact of terrorism being used? Do you see any direct
connection? Do you see any direct threat?
            SEC. RUMSFELD: I'll leave that to the intelligence community.
And maybe you want to comment on it. (Referring to General Myers.)
            But what we've seen there -- we've seen the videos of Saddam
Hussein's regime chopping off people's heads and hands and pushing them off
buildings. We've seen recently beheadings in Iraq. We know what took place
by the Taliban in Afghanistan prior to the removal of the Taliban and the al
Qaeda from that country. And we're seeing -- we've seen the attacks in
Turkey and Tunisia and Morocco and Spain and Indonesia, in country after
country. What we saw in Russia was another instance in a long line of
instances dating back, if you want to, at least in recent memory, to the
Marine barracks in 1983, and then the embassy bombings in the '90s, and the
USS Cole. This is not something that's new. UBL declared war on the Untied
States back in the '90s, according to the U.S. intelligence community.
            But what we saw last week was a very gripping, vivid example of
the extremes to which terrorists will go, and are not only willing to go,
but do in fact go and are going. They are doing these things today. This is
a global struggle between extremists and people who want to be left alone to
live free lives and free systems, and they're opposed to that. And it's
important that the world understand that and that what's taking place in
Iraq and what's taking place in Afghanistan and what's taking place in
Russia are examples of the fact that there are people determined to alter
the behavior of the rest of the world and how they live their lives and to
terrorize them into doing that, and to terrorize them by doing the most
extreme things they can think of. And that's what's taking place.
            Jamie?
            Q:   Mr. Secretary, and also General Myers, it would be
interesting to hear your view on this: In both the case of Najaf and back in
April in Fallujah, the U.S. military, along with Iraqi forces, were
inflicting significant casualties on the anti-American insurgents and then
pulled back because of a strategy of having a negotiated settlement or
trying another tactic. In both cases it looks like those forces have
regrouped to fight another day and Fallujah has become pretty much a rebel
stronghold.
            My question is, is there any rethinking of that strategy? And
will the U.S. military, along with the Iraqi government, attempt to reassert
control over these so-called "no-go" zones, places where the U.S. is not
patrolling and the Iraqi government is not in control?
            GEN. MYERS: I think the question can very quickly get into
operational tactics.
            I'll try to keep it at a level that is not there, Jamie, but is
a little higher than that.
            First of all, when we looked at other -- if you recall, in
Fallujah there was another solution proposed, and the so-called troop
pullback was working with the -- then the Governing Council, trying to find
a formula that would work in Fallujah. We never stopped engaging the enemy
as they presented themselves, and there were many enemy killed in that
intervening period where we were not actively going into the streets of
Fallujah. But we were still, as you recall -- AC- 130s and fixed-wing
aircraft dropping bombs on targets, and there were a lot of enemy that died
there.
            The overall strategy is one that General Casey has been working
on very closely with the Iraqi interim government. They have a strategy for
the cities. Part of that strategy is that Iraqi security forces must be
properly equipped, trained and led to participate in these security
operations, and then once it's over can sustain the peace in a given city.
And while U.S. forces or coalition forces on their own can do just about
anything we want to do, it makes a lot more sense that it be a sustained
operation, one that can be sustained by Iraqi security forces. And as the
secretary has said and I think we've said here before, we're -- that's what
we're about is trying to improve the equipping and the training and the
leadership in the Iraqi security forces so they're able to do these
operations.
            Q:   Yeah, but General Metz -- Lieutenant General Metz has
suggested that -- first of all, that they won't be able to hold successful
elections in Iraq in January as long as you have these pockets of -- these
so-called "no-go" zones, and that he suggested there may have to be a U.S.
military offensive coordinated with the Iraqi government in order to take
care of that problem before January.
            GEN. MYERS: All I would say is the election business will be up
to the interim government and the national council or assembly that's been
put together. They'll determine what they need to have appropriate
elections. And we'll support -- Multinational Forces Iraq, led by General
Casey, they have a very good relationship with the interim Iraqi government,
and they'll sort -- they'll sort through their priorities.
            Q:  Can I just follow up on that, please? You said -
            Q:  General? General, you mentioned the Iraqi -
            Q:  Thank you.
            Q:  Excuse me.  Are you suggesting, General, that the U.S.
military, in conjunction with the Iraqi forces, will not be able to go into
these "no-go" zones to take on the insurgents until the Iraqis are
prepared -
            GEN. MYERS: That's part of the equation.
            Q:  -- to take over the security?
            GEN. MYERS: That's part of the equation, obviously. You want to
have a lasting -- a lasting solution, at least that's what the Iraqi
government wants.
            Q:  But given the -- given the really slow pace at which the
Iraqis are being adequately equipped and trained to take on the insurgents,
what is the advantage, then, to leaving these insurgents in place in what
are essentially safe havens now?
            GEN. MYERS: Well, there's more to this strategy than what I
said, and that starts to get into the operational issue in terms of how you
try to isolate certain communities, and so forth, and set the conditions for
successful use of force later on, if you have to go there.
            With respect to equipping and training Iraqi security forces -- 
you said slow to equip and train -- it's relative. By December, we're going
to have a substantial number of Iraqi security forces equipped, trained and
led to conduct the kind of operations I was talking about.
            SEC. RUMSFELD: Yes?
            Q:  Mr. Secretary, a separate question -- a separate issue.
About a year ago, last fall, I know a lot of us wrote about a memo you wrote
to your senior staff raising some issues about whether the U.S. has
sufficient metrics to determine whether the war on terror, the global war on
terror is being won in the sense of winning hearts and minds; measuring
whether you're creating more terrorists for every one you kill.
            Can you give us an update on your thinking? Has the U.S.
government done a better job of getting its head around that issue?
            SEC. RUMSFELD: I think so. I think the -
            Q:  (Off mike.)
            SEC. RUMSFELD: No, I think it's almost impossible to have
metrics because you don't know what the intake is. But one ought to
recognize there aren't metrics, and make sure that the effort is directed at
the problems -- plural -- not a single problem. It is not a military problem
alone, to be sure. It is clear that the political, the economic and the
military have to proceed apace. And it is also clear that the world,
particularly the Muslim world, has got to do a better job of seeing that the
small faction within their religion doesn't hijack that religion and keep
training more people to go out and kill innocent men, women and children.
            And I know that that's being worked on in a number of countries.
I know there's an effort to cut off funding to the more radical madrassa
schools and to convert a number of those schools, for example, in Pakistan
to schools that teach things that are useful to a life, such as languages
and mathematics and science and that type of thing.
            So it is -- I think that there's a better, deeper understanding
of the fact that this is not a one-dimensional military-only conflict; this
is something that is multi-dimensional; it is something that is going to
take a long time; it is going to be a tough, tough road. But it -- imagine
failing, and imagine turning over the world to the people who want to chop
off people's heads. And so we have no choice.
            And the idea that one -- you say training more terrorists. We
haven't done anything to train terrorists -
            Q:  I said creating more.
            SEC. RUMSFELD: That's what I mean, creating more terrorists. The
world hadn't done anything to create more terrorists when 9/11 -- when 3,000
people were killed.  So we have a big task. It is not something that one
country can do alone. And it is not something that can be done militarily,
that's for sure.
            Yes?
            Q:  General Myers?
            Q:  I want to get back to the issue of underestimating the
insurgency and criticism of the war plan. I want to tie this together. The
Fay report and the Schlesinger report a couple weeks ago, both strongly
worded critiques of your war plan in terms of setting the conditions that
led to detainee abuse, they stated that the Pentagon did not adequately
estimate the extent or the staying power of the insurgency or adequately
revamp its plans and resources to accommodate the strategy -- the
insurgency. Your war plan was criticized. Can you address whether those are
fair, valid criticisms now in retrospect, sir?
            SEC. RUMSFELD: Do you want to start?
            GEN. MYERS: Well, I think the first thing you could say is that
in retrospect you can be super-critical about anything you want to be
critical about. And so with perfect hindsight, you'd say, well, gee, maybe
we should have anticipated this, maybe we should have anticipated that.
            The fact is, in my view, looking at what we've done in
Afghanistan, what we've done in Iraq, what we've done in the Horn of Africa,
what we've done in the Philippines, what we've done virtually around the
world since 9/11 has shown U.S. forces, and the coalition, for the most
part, being highly flexible and adaptable to the task at hand.  Nobody can
predict with certainty the kind of environment you're going to try to find
when you go into these places. You just can't do it. You give it your best
guess. And then you have to react to the situation as you find it on the
ground. This is, after all, war. This is combat. There is no formula for
combat. There is no formula for war. The best you can do is have a plan,
execute your plan, see how the enemy confronts your plan, and then adjust.
            The part I would highlight is we've been very good at adjusting.
Could we have been faster, sharper, quicker? Sure, we could have been, in
probably many areas it goes without saying, particularly if we have the
benefit of looking backwards and not looking forward. And that's the way I
would address that.
            Q:  Mr. Secretary, you calibrated this war plan on several
occasions during the -
            SEC. RUMSFELD: The war plan we worked on was an excellent war
plan. General Franks and his team did a superb job, in my view, the Joint
Staff did, and all of us applied our best judgment. And we believe it was a
highly successful war plan.  If you think about it -- I was reading over the
weekend, Winston Churchill speculated in '39 that World War II might last as
many as three years.  It went on, what, six years from then. Operation
Overlord, if you think about it, was -- there were people landed in the
wrong place and it was a bloodbath as a result. There was a gap of 25 miles
left open and 17 German divisions escaped through that and prolonged the war
some distance.
            There -- you are -- in any activity, you're up against a
thinking enemy, and no war plan survives the first contact with an enemy.
And the idea that one could anticipate three chess games out is a
misunderstanding of how the world works. What one does, as Dick Myers said,
is you build into it the kinds of capabilities and flexibilities that you
think you may need, knowing -- knowing -- of certain knowledge that once you
hit the ground, something's going to be different than you thought. And in
fact, that's what's happened. And it has always been so. There's never been
something -
            Q:  (Off mike) -- not having it -- having a well-thought plan on
the insurgency issue and on resourcing it quickly enough. You didn't adapt
as you -- as Schlesinger was at the podium -
            SEC. RUMSFELD: The resourcing of it -- anyone can come to any
conclusion they want after the fact. The fact of the matter is that the -- 
there were no capabilities -- military capabilities that were requested that
weren't provided. That's just a fact.
            Q:  Okay.
            Q:  Mr. Secretary, in your opening remarks on Russia, did you
mean to suggest that al Qaeda was involved in that attack and hostage-
taking?
            SEC. RUMSFELD: No, no.
            Q:  So -
            SEC. RUMSFELD: I don't know is the answer to the question. I
didn't suggest it, or I did not suggest that they were not. I just did not
address it. But -
            Q:  General Myers, you mentioned that the bombing runs have
continued in Fallujah and a number of different air campaigns to go after
terrorists there. But do you concede that Fallujah, Ramadi, Samarra, in this
interim time when Iraqi forces are not up to speed yet, have really become
safe havens for terrorists and Sunni militants?
            GEN. MYERS: They are areas that are -- again, they're part of
the overall strategy how we deal with it. And they're all a little bit
different in terms of the strategy we're using where some of the insurgents
in some of the communities are not able to travel outside those communities,
not able to effect major lines of communication, so forth. So we treat each
of them differently. There are places where we do not conduct patrols, we
don't conduct joint patrols. But they're all going to be dealt with on
priorities that are developed by the Iraqi government and by coalition
forces. And that's really all I want to get into.
            Q:  But General -
            Q:  General Myers -
            SEC. RUMSFELD: Let me add one thought. The prime minister and
his team fully understand that it is important that there not be areas in
that country that are controlled by terrorists.
            They understand that. It's their country, and they are
proceeding -- they've been in office, what, how many months? Three? Two?
July, August -
            GEN. MYERS: Two months.
            SEC. RUMSFELD: Two months; not a long time -- when one thinks
about it.  It seems to me that -- I have no doubt but that they understand
it; that they -- for that -- for them, for their country to succeed, they
simply cannot, over a sustained period of time, have areas that are under
the control of people who are violently opposed to that government. They get
it, and they will find a way over time to deal with it. In some cases I
suspect they'll deal with it through negotiation and discussion. In other
cases I think they'll deal with it by force.
            Q:  The Iraqi police -
            SEC. RUMSFELD: I don't know what the numbers are, but for the
sake of argument I think it's safe to say -- and correct me if you think I'm
wrong -- but in the last month the Iraqi forces and the coalition forces
have probably killed 1,500, 2,000, 2,500 former regime elements, criminals,
terrorists. Now is that a lot? Yes. Does that hurt them? Yes. Is it a lot
out of 25 million people in a country? No.  Is it a lot when you've got
borders that are porous and more can come in? No. But is the conflict, the
offense being effectively waged? The answer is yes, it is. Is it everywhere
at once? No.
            As Dick says, there are some things that are better done by
Iraqis than coalition forces. As a result, they are being used judiciously.
They are being trained up and equipped up as fast as possible, and then
they're being used in the areas -- for example, they would have been used in
Najaf had it been necessary to go into the shrine area as opposed to using
coalition forces. They're doing effective counterterrorism activities, and
they're doing effective pinpoint interventions in locations. As they gain
more confidence, as the chain of command gets stood up better, why,
obviously they'll be doing more and more.
            Q:  So Abu Zarqawi is somehow in a command and control position
and may be in or -- in and around Fallujah?
            SEC. RUMSFELD: I've seen nothing to suggest to the contrary.
            Q:  General Myers, you said in response to one of the earlier
questions, something about the Iraqi security forces will be enlarged or
improved by December, the end of this year. I wanted to make sure I
understood you more clearly on that. Because as you know, the number of the
force had been touted at about 200,000, and then reduced to about 110,000.
            SEC. RUMSFELD: Let me -- let me, before he answers, give you the
gross numbers. The numbers were zero, and then they went up to -- the number
being used was about 260,000 -- no, no -- 205,000 -
            Q:  206,000.
            SEC. RUMSFELD: -- 206,000 -- you're right. And that number
included people, as we said, that had uneven training and uneven equipment.
We improved our analysis, and we've gotten much better visibility into the
situation. We figure we may still have that many people on the rolls. But of
the ones that are trained and equipped, the number now looks to be -- the
latest number -- last week it was 105,000; now it looks to be 95,000; that
is to say that are trained and equipped.
            Q:  95,000?
            SEC. RUMSFELD: 95,000. And Dick was talking about the projection
going out between now and the end of the year into mid-'05 when that number
continues to soar as we're effective. And that number then will go up -- 
back up over 200,000.
            Q:  So you think by mid-'05 -- I don't want to be -- I want to
make sure I understand -- it should be back to over 200,000? And these would
be like the 95,000, fully trained -
            GEN. MYERS: Trained, there will be different leadership quality,
a much -
            Q:  -- (inaudible) -- and all that kind of stuff and ready to
go?
            GEN. MYERS: Yeah.
            Q:  And also, in Afghanistan, you know, you're shooting for
20,000 now, national army. And when you were there, sir, the number was
given to you about 8,000 or 9,000. When do you think that that number might
get up to 20,000 in Afghanistan?
            GEN. MYERS: Actually, I think the number for the Afghan National
Army, the goal is 70,000.
            Q:  Right. (inaudible) -- a little bit further.
            GEN. MYERS: Right. And then there's the police and the border
component of that and the highway patrol and the counternarcotics force. And
what we're trying to do in Afghanistan, the same thing we've been doing now
for a while in Iraq, and that is to take a holistic look at this. As you
know, the Bonn process had individual countries responsible for various
parts of this. And they're coming along in a -- as the secretary would say,
in an uneven way. And what we're going to try to do with our coalition
partners is make that less uneven and more of a holistic approach that the
Afghan government approves and that is sustainable over the long term by the
Afghan government. And it involves the same elements -- organize, train,
equip. And the leadership element -- mentoring; once you train somebody, put
them back in the field, you don't just drop them at the doorstep of the
local police station and say, "Now you got it," because there's going to be
some mentoring required as they go through.
            Q:  Mr. Secretary?
            SEC. RUMSFELD: And -- and the soft stuff's much harder to do
than the hard stuff. That is to say you can buy a truck or a weapon, but
getting the chain of command right and getting the mentoring right and the
leadership aspects of it right, that's tough stuff.  We'll make this the
last question.
            Q:  Mr. Secretary, thank you very much. The withdrawal of 12,500
U.S. troops from South Korea, there will be a -- after the pullout of U.S.
troops from South Korea there will be a security vacuum in the Korean
peninsula.  What -
            SEC. RUMSFELD: Absolutely not. There will be no vacuum.
            Q:  What is the -
            SEC. RUMSFELD: We wouldn't think of allowing a vacuum to exist
in the Korean peninsula.
            Q:  Okay. What is the United States -
            SEC. RUMSFELD: It is an enormously important area. We have done
careful analysis. This has been something that's been going on for over a
year in discussion with the South Korean government. They have done tabletop
studies and analysis.  We have -- the important thing is, in the 21st
century if one takes numbers and tries to equate them with old numbers from
the 20th century, they make a mistake because the implication is if the
number is lower, that you're weaker; and it's simply not true. We have
capabilities that we can deploy there -- and air capabilities, land
capabilities, sea capabilities. And the capabilities that we have there are
vastly more capable than the exact same number of people were five, 10, 15
years ago because we've invested -- I forget what the number is, it's a
large number of billions of dollars -- into capabilities that enable us to
provide for a healthy deterrent on that peninsula. And let there be no doubt
that that's the case.
            We understand the nature of that regime in the north and have no
intention at all of allowing any sort of a vacuum. And any suggestion to the
contrary would be a fundamental mistake. And anyone who looks at it from a
military standpoint and analyzes it, as current commanders have, prior
commanders have and the Joint Chiefs of Staff have, have not one slight bit
of worry about any weakening of the deterrent.  Thank you very much.
            Q:  Will we see you next week?
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202-347-1400
.

 Infatti tra meno di un mese ci saranno le prime elezioni e vincerŕ Karzai
D'accordo, ma praticamente sarŕ sindaco di Kabul.
Riot
-- 
"Pravettoni č stato indagato per corruzione.
Per provare la sua innocenza ha portato in aula
una foto che lo ritraeva mentre non corrompeva
nessuno"

 E che ne so, qui si apre benissimo.
Confermo.
Forse il firewall di SDC blocca tutti gli ip di siti che dimostrano che 
ha torto, il 90% circa.
Riot
-- 
"Pravettoni è stato indagato per corruzione.


Ora puoi leggerlo e contestarlo nel merito,
Niente di piu' facile.
All'affermazione
-----
Ma se Rumsfeld stesso ha detto che il Governo di Allawy capisce che 
non possono avere zone dle paese che non sono sotto il controllo della
Coalizione,
-----
Mi basta dire che la parola "Allawi" compare solo in questa frase in
tutto il testo
-----
We continue to be pleased with the agreement reached between Prime
Minister Allawi and Ayatollah al-Sistani.
-----
Quindi stessa cosa per l'affermazione
-----
E perche' Rumsfeld dichiara che Allawy dovra, "con il tempo, trovare
il modo di affrontare la situazione" ?
-----
-Stefano

Forse il firewall di SDC blocca tutti gli ip
Coglione, lo sai cosa e' un PING?
-Stefano

 D'accordo, ma praticamente sarà sindaco di Kabul.
Davvero, siete incomprensibili. Non si capisce dove vogliate arrivare.
Ma tu lo sai che fuori da Kabul vivono come nel 100 avanti cristo?
Tu credi che una situazione del genere possa essere modificata in pochi
mesi?
Intanto a Kabul le cose stanno parecchio cambiando... ho visto un
incredibile reportage sulla rai ultimamente.

 -----
Quindi hai letto ancora una volta i documenti come ti pare. Malgrado ciň,
persone piů oneste e dotate intellettualmente possono continuare a leggere
frasi molto chiare come questa:
they (il governo iracheno, e dunque Allawi) simply cannot, over a sustained
period of time, have areas that are under the control of people who are
violently opposed to that government. They get it, and they will find a way
over time to deal with it. In some cases I suspect they'll deal with it
through negotiation and discussion. In other cases I think they'll deal with
it by force
Bye.

Quindi hai letto ancora una volta i documenti come ti pare.
...disse il bue all'asino.... :)
Ah... Il tuo contesto dice che parla di "aree sotto il controllo di
TERRORISTI" :)
----
SEC. RUMSFELD: Let me add one thought. The prime minister and
his team fully understand that it is important that there not be areas
in that country that are controlled by terrorists.
----
-Stefano

 TERRORISTI" :)
Certo, per quanto mi riguarda Rumsfeld può chiamarli anche Pippo, Pluto e
Paperino se gli fa comodo. Sono e restano gruppi armati che impediscono alle
forze della coalizione di avere qualcosa che si avicini lontanamente al
controllo del territorio, come dimostrano - oltre al rapimento delle due
ragazze di "Un ponte per..." anche gli attentati quotidiani contro esponenti
del governo provvisorio, militari e mezzi della coalizione della polizia e
dell'esercito iracheno eccetera eccetera eccetera.

dell'esercito iracheno eccetera eccetera eccetera.
Esattamente come con le BR, le nuove BR e via via dicendo? :)
*LOL*
-Stefano

 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:41403E3B...@people.it...

Domanda banale: secondo te è possibile per una persona sana di mente, fare
un paragone del genere?
E se si, perché?
Ah, imbecille.

 Ah, imbecille.
...disse il bue all'asino... :)
*LOL*
-Stefano

 ...disse
Disse quello che non ha saputo spiegare la pertinenza dell'equivalenza da
lui stesso fatta tra l'Irak di oggi e l'Italia delle BR.
Puoi andare, cretino.

Puoi andare, cretino.
...disse il bue all'asino.... :)
-Stefano

 capisce il *PARAGONE* :)
Sono estasiato da tanta prosopopea impiegata nella lanacaprinica distinzione
tra "equivalenza" e "paragone" e anche al tuo patetico tentativo di sviare
la cosa con i tuoi f/up non segnalati a IFC, ma ancora non hai spiegato in
cosa sia pertinente l'"equivalenza" o se si vuole "il paragone" tra l'Irak
di oggi e l'italia delle BR, con particolare attenzione al tema del
controllo del territorio.
Che forse ti abbia colto un'altra volta in fallo a sparare cazzate che tu
stesso non sei in grado di argomentare?

Aber Rock wrote:

Ma pensaci su un attimino, Aber Rock.
A me il ragazzo fa si' rabbia ( lo sa Dio che ultimamente l'ho 
"ingaggiato" pure io..) pero' in fondo, (molto in fondo) fa anche pena.
Pensa alla mancanza di punti di riferimento culturali, sociali, 
comunicazione con altri ... non c' ha nulla, poretto, se "LOL" e' tutto 
quello che sa fare, che trite che deve essere la sua vita.
E' bravo solo a fare incazzare la gente.
Non mi sembra poi tanto come aspirazione nella vita, la soddisfazione, 
la goduria, la masturbazione (mentale?) nel provocare solo rabbia nel 
tuo interlocutore, invece di una conversazione tra persone intelligenti 
che magari non vanno d' accordo, ma riescono a discutere senza 
offendersi a vicenda, ... e poi .. Coitus interruptus , in quanto 
termina la discussione con un "se lo dici tu, LOL" ed e ' finita li.
manda il post, si guarda e pensa "tie' ho fatto incazzare un altro 
stronzetto, come sono bravo, o come sono bravo"
Amici ? Dubito, e chi vuole essere amico di uno cosi ?
Che triste.
Su, Stefano dai, mandami un altro "se lo dici tu" "LOL" cosi' ti senti 
meglio dopo... non fa nulla, un giorno passera' vedrai.

Amici ? Dubito, e chi vuole essere amico di uno cosi ?
...disse il bue all'asino... :)
*LOL*
-Stefano

 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:41406CC4...@people.it...

Che post eccezionale: conferma punto per punto tutto ciň che RG ti contesta,
f/up a it.fan.culo compreso.
Dai, fammi vedere quanto sei prevedibilmente triste: metti un bel "...disse
il bue all'asino... :)" in questo spazio:
_________________________________________
Saprň ricompensarti adeguatamente in crocchette Eukanuba.

contesta,
Se lo dici tu... :)
*LOL*
-Stefano

 
Stefano De Cesari
Tu sei forte
tu sei bello
tu sei imbattibile
tu sei incorruttibile
tu sei Stefano De Cesari
tu sei saggio
tu porti la verità
tu non sei un comune mortale
a te non è concesso barare
tu sei Cesari'
tu sei un'anima eletta
tu non accetti compromessi
tu non puoi sbagliare
tu non devi lasciarti andare
tu sei Cesari'
No, tu non puoi lamentarti
che ti senti male
che ti scoppia la testa
e non ce la fai più a postare
Ma non farci ridere a dire
che anche un camionista
si ferma ogni tanto a riposare
perchè a un camionista
non ti puoi paragonare
tu sei Stefanone
Non li senti trattenere il respiro
quando sei lì  e usi la tastiera
qui nel grande NG tu ormai sei il re
tu sei buono
tu sei vero
tu sei onesto
tu sei modesto
tu sei De Cesari
tu sei semplice
tu sei sicuro
tu sei generoso
tu sei valoroso
tu sei De Cesari
tu sei senza macchia
tu sei senza peccato
tu sei intoccabile
tu sei inattaccabile
tu sei Stefanone
Non li senti trattenere il respiro
uando sei lì  e usi la tastiera
qui nel grande NG tu ormai sei il re
Ma non è giusto
che tu hai tutto
e noi invece no
tu sei perfetto
tu non hai un difetto
che rabbia che ci fai!
Si è vero, sono io il più bravo
Si è vero, sono io il più bravo
nessuno è bravo come me
Si è vero, sono io il più saggio
sono io il più intelligente
e poi sentite come posto bene...
...se lo dite voi...
*LOL* :-)
[Oddio, oddio, Edoardo, potrai mai perdonarmi.. ?]

 Se
Stefano, hai perso l'ennesima occasione per star zitto e risparmiare banda e
f/up scorretti.

banda
...disse il bue all'asino... :)
*LOL*
-Stefano

 ...disse
Piantala, sei ridicolo.

 Piantala, sei ridicolo.
...disse il bue all'asino... :)
*ROTFL*
-Stefano

 ...disse
Dimenticavo una cosa, al mago Forrester del NG è caduto dal cilindro un "e
f/up scorretti". Era nel mio post ma era sparito.
Che merdaccia® che sei.
ROTFL.

 -Stefano

 Che merdaccia® che sei.


Roll on! ha scritto:

Non ci sono i presupposti per farla cambiare. Non nego che a Kabul le 
cose stiano migliorando, ma visto che gli USA detengono il controllo 
solo della città e dei dintorni mentre i signori della guerra del resto 
come fa a cambiare la situazione? per osmosi?


 -Stefano

 
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/08/politics/08policy.html?hp
"gli Stati Uniti stanno lavorando con il governo iracheno per sviluppare
una strategia finalizzata a riprendere il controllo delle città"
Da quant'è che studiare un "attacco" significa "cedere al nemico"?
Raffaele

 -Stefano

 Grazie, Maestro! ;-)
...disse il bue all'asino...
-Stefano

 -Stefano
-- 
------------------------------------
  God, root, what is difference ?
------------------------------------

*Indeed, President Karzai had almost no power beyond Kabul*
Peccato che una tale citazione appaia solo su quel sito e su un sito che
ne copia il testo.
Ti dice niente questo?
-Stefano

 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:TuqdnV_NUId...@texas.net...


 40.000?
Ambo!
Namib

 detto da te e' un complimento, visto come le capisci tu le cose.
Torna all'asilo. Io stavo facendo un discorso serio e obbiettivo. Sei tu che
salti fuori con le frasette delle elementari.


 vedere complotti.
Ah, bella questa.
Tb