Newsgroup: it.politica.internazionale
Titolo: La Francia non si piega

Discorso moderato e saggio: dovremmo ripensare come UE il ns. rapporto con
gli USA. L'11/9 non ha cambiato un accidente; l'aggressione all'Iraq, sě.
Namib
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PARIS, Jan. 19 (UPI) -- France's foreign minister says
current world challenges call for a new trans-Atlantic relationship
but asserts his country will not bow to U.S. will.
Speaking to CNN, Michel Barnier said: "We are allies.
Alliance is not submission."
He said the allies must work together in the broader sense.
Barnier said that would involve "probably in what I call a
new trans-Atlantic relationship, and get in the habit to talk more
to each other -- even when we don't agree, because that happens --
to talk more about politics."
France and the United States have been estranged after the
two disagreed over the war in Iraq.
The "French-bashing" that followed the disagreement may have
hurt U.S.-French ties, Barnier told CNN.
Asked whether the French are willing to compromise, Barnier
said, "The French can change and the Americans can change."
"A discussion should be something frank, direct, lucid,
where each one can make an effort," he said, but added France will
not make a "one-way compromise."

L'11/9 non ha cambiato un accidente; l'aggressione all'Iraq, sě.
Altra puttanata.
Avra' cambiato qualcosa per la Francia forse, non certo per la UE.
-Stefano

 gli USA. L'11/9 non ha cambiato un accidente; l'aggressione all'Iraq, sě.
Ma della divergenza di interessi ne sono assolutamente coscienti anche 
gli americani. Che poi cerchino di portarci male e' anche probabile.
Cito articolo da me gia' postato.
The Scotsman - Sun 16 Jan 2005
CIA gives grim warning on European prospects
http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=56762005
NICHOLAS CHRISTIAN
THE CIA has predicted that the European Union will break-up within 15 
years unless it radically reforms its ailing welfare systems.
  The report by the intelligence agency, which forecasts how the world 
will look in 2020, warns that Europe could be dragged into economic 
decline by its ageing population. It also predicts the end of Nato and 
post-1945 military alliances.
  In a devastating indictment of EU economic prospects, the report 
warns: "The current EU welfare state is unsustainable and the lack of 
any economic revitalisation could lead to the splintering or, at worst, 
disintegration of the EU, undermining its ambitions to play a 
heavyweight international role."
  It adds that the EU's economic growth rate is dragged down by Germany 
and its restrictive labour laws. Reforms there - and in France and 
Italy to lesser extents - remain key to whether the EU as a whole can 
break out of its "slow-growth pattern".
  Reflecting growing fears in the US that the pain of any proper reform 
would be too much to bear, the report adds that the experts it 
consulted "are dubious that the present political leadership is 
prepared to make even this partial break, believing a looming budgetary 
crisis in the next five years would be the more likely trigger for 
reform".
  The EU is also set for a looming demographic crisis because of a drop 
in birth rates and increased longevity, with devastating economic 
consequences.
  The report says: "Either European countries adapt their workforces, 
reform their social welfare, education and tax systems, and accommodate 
growing immigrant populations [chiefly from Muslim countries] or they 
face a period of protracted economic stasis."
  As a result of the increased immigration needed, the report predicts 
that Europe's Muslim population is set to increase from around 13% 
today to between 22% and 37% of the population by 2025, potentially 
triggering tensions.
  The report predicts that America's relationships with Europe will be 
"dramatically altered" over the next 15 years, in a move away from 
post-Second World War institutions. Nato could disappear and be 
replaced by increased EU action.
  "The EU, rather than Nato, will increasingly become the primary 
institution for Europe, and the role Europeans shape for themselves on 
the world stage is most likely to be projected through it," the report 
adds. "Whether the EU will develop an army is an open question."
  Defence spending by individual European countries, including the UK, 
France, and Germany, is likely to fall further behind China and other 
countries over the next 15 years. Collectively these countries will 
outspend all others except the US and possibly China.
  The expected next technological revolution will involve the 
convergence of nano, bio, information and materials technology and will 
further bolster China and India's prospects, the study predicts. Both 
countries are investing in basic research in these fields and are well 
placed to be leaders. But whereas the US will retain its overall lead, 
the report warns "Europe risks slipping behind Asia in some of these 
technologies".
  For Europe, an increasing preference for natural gas may reinforce 
regional relationships, such as those with Russia or North Africa, 
given the inter-dependence of pipeline delivery, the report argues. But 
this means the EU will have to deal with Russia, which the report also 
warns "faces a severe demographic crisis resulting from low birth 
rates, poor medical care and a potentially explosive Aids situation".
  Russia also borders an "unstable region" in the Caucasus and Central 
Asia, "the effects of which - Muslim extremism, terrorism and endemic 
conflict - are likely to continue spilling over into Russia".
  The report also largely en dorses forecasts that by 2020 China's gross
domestic product will exceed that of individual western economic powers 
except for the US. India's GDP will have overtaken or be overtaking 
European economies.
  Because of the sheer size of China's and India's populations their 
standard of living need not approach European and western levels to 
become important economic powers.
  The economies of other developing countries, such as Brazil, could 
surpass all but the largest European countries by 2020.

 ha scritto nel messaggio news:gCdId.436533$b5.20...@news3.tin.it...
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Non era stati chiamati, almeno per un certo periodo, 'Stato Canaglia'? :-P
cmq alla fine sono parole, e la Francia in una CEE sempre piů allargata
(guarda caso) forse non ha, putroppo, tutto questo potere..
certo loro, Germania, Svezia probabilmente.. o magari qualcuna di
piccola come Danimarca? Svizzera? sono sicuramente le Democrazie
in Europa a cui maggiormente si puň far finta di credere..
no, non infilo la GB perchč a me sa tanto piů di una "sofisticheria" ben
congegnata.. (anche se direi ben distante dagli USA)

in Europa a cui maggiormente si può far finta di credere..
AHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!!!!!!
*LOL*
-Stefano

 Speaking to CNN, Michel Barnier said: "We are allies.
Sei daccordo?
Palmiro Pangloss
-- 
"But, Michael, if you ever show up at my front door with a camera I'll 
kill you."
Clint Eastwood to Michael Moore
National Board of Review awards dinner at the Tavern on the Green, New 
York, NY 11.01.05

 Sei daccordo?
Nulla vieta che si *possa* essere alleati, a patto che si sia, appunto,
alleati, e non servi. Sei d'accordo, lo so. Shalom.
Namib

 Nulla vieta che si *possa* essere alleati, 
Ok, avevo invece capito che IYHO l'UE non possa per motivi oggettivi 
essere alleata degli USA o che almeno non lo potra' essere in futuro. 
Evidentemente avevo capito male.


 Evidentemente avevo capito male.
Alleanza è una parola che implica più che l'amicizia l'UE può essere amica
degli usa (come siamo amici dell'India o dell'Ucraina o della Russia) ma non
alleata in questo periodo. Troppo diverso il modo di pensare.

 alleata in questo periodo. Troppo diverso il modo di pensare.
Al contrario, si può essere alleati e non amici, vedi Unione Sovietica e
angloamericani nella WWII.
Raffaele
-- 
Not only bad news: 
http://www.goodnewsiraq.com
Strategic Blog: 
http://strategic-game.blogspot.com/
Strategic Sourceforge Homepage: 
http://strategic.sourceforge.net/
Strategic Sourceforge Project: 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/strategic/

angloamericani nella WWII.
In quel caso i rapporti di forza erano decisamente meno sbilanciati.
Inoltre quell'alleanza durň l'espace d'une guerre.

 alleata in questo periodo. Troppo diverso il modo di pensare.
Le entità politiche hanno "modi di pensare"?
Namib

 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:dVRId.751704$35.29...@news4.tin.it...
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Certo

 angloamericani nella WWII.
Infatti l'alleanza implica una comunanza di interessi che attualmente tra
Europa e usa non esiste oggi mentre tra angloamericani e sovietici
sussisteva