Newsgroup: it.politica.internazionale
Titolo: che squallido personaggio. Namib e Logi gli daranno una lezione di dialettica

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/why-dont-i-criticize-israel#.VALUwuSoNdA.twitter
 
 
I've debated rabbis who, when I have assumed that they believe in a God that can hear our prayers, they stop me mid-sentence and say, "Why would you think that I believe in a God who can hear prayers?" So there are rabbis--conservative rabbis--who believe in a God so elastic as to exclude every concrete claim about Him--and therefore, nearly every concrete demand upon human behavior. And there are millions of Jews, literally millions among the few million who exist, for whom Judaism is very important, and yet they are atheists. They don't believe in God at all. This is actually a position you can hold in Judaism, but it's a total non sequitur in Islam or Christianity.
So, when we're talking about the consequences of irrational beliefs based on scripture, the Jews are the least of the least offenders.
 
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Though I just said that I don't think Israel should exist as a Jewish state, the justification for such a state is rather easy to find. We need look no further than the fact that the rest of the world has shown itself eager to murder the Jews at almost every opportunity. So, if there were going to be a state organized around protecting members of a single religion, it certainly should be a Jewish state. 
 
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It is worth observing, however, that Israel isn't "Jewish" in the sense that Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are "Muslim." As my friend Jerry Coyne points out, Israel is actually less religious than the U.S., and it guarantees freedom of religion to its citizens. Israel is not a theocracy, and one could easily argue that its Jewish identity is more cultural than religious. 
 
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The truth is that there is an obvious, undeniable, and hugely consequential moral difference between Israel and her enemies. The Israelis are surrounded by people who have explicitly genocidal intentions towards them. 
 
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The discourse in the Muslim world about Jews is utterly shocking. Not only is there Holocaust denial--there's Holocaust denial that then asserts that we will do it for real if given the chance. 
 
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What would the Jews do to the Palestinians if they could do anything they wanted? Well, we know the answer to that question, because they can do more or less anything they want. The Israeli army could kill everyone in Gaza tomorrow. So what does that mean? Well, it means that, when they drop a bomb on a beach and kill four Palestinian children, as happened last week, this is almost certainly an accident. They're not targeting children. They could target as many children as they want. 
 
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What would the Palestinians do to the Jews in Israel if the power imbalance were reversed? Well, they have told us what they would do. For some reason, Israel's critics just don't want to believe the worst about a group like Hamas, even when it declares the worst of itself. We've already had a Holocaust and several other genocides in the 20th century. People are capable of committing genocide. When they tell us they intend to commit genocide, we should listen. There is every reason to believe that the Palestinians would kill all the Jews in Israel if they could. 
 
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So, it seems to me, that you have to side with Israel here. You have one side which if it really could accomplish its aims would simply live peacefully with its neighbors, and you have another side which is seeking to implement a seventh century theocracy in the Holy Land. There's no peace to be found between those incompatible ideas.  
 
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And again, you have to ask yourself, what do these groups want? What would they accomplish if they could accomplish anything? What would the Israelis do if they could do what they want? They would live in peace with their neighbors, if they had neighbors who would live in peace with them. They would simply continue to build out their high tech sector and thrive. 
 
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What do groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda and even Hamas want? They want to impose their religious views on the rest of humanity. They want to stifle every freedom that decent, educated, secular people care about. This is not a trivial difference. And yet judging from the level of condemnation that Israel now receives, you would think the difference ran the other way.

Namib è troppo imepgnato a prendere in giro ls SHoah inventandosi camere a gas libiche per risponderti

 Namib ï¿œ troppo imepgnato a prendere in giro ls SHoah inventandosi camere a gas libiche per risponderti
 
:) E' andato :)
 
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Namib
.....
Trost ist ein absurdes Wort:
Wer nicht verzweifeln kann, der muï¿œ nicht leben
(J.W. v. Goethe)

 children. They could target as many children as they want.
 
 
Che discorso del cazzo. Se i quattro bambini fossero stati di un'altra
etnia il discorso sarebbe stato ben diverso. 

 Che discorso del cazzo. 
 
beh certo. Per chi ha accesso alle istruzioni scritte molto in piccolo, e' evidente che il sionismo ha l'obiettivo di sterminare la popolazione araba.