Newsgroup: it.politica.internazionale
Titolo: Un comunicato stampa di Tikkun

(quote)
Progressive Jews Reject Netanyahu's Latest Propaganda Offensive
Editor of Tikkun, the largest circulation liberal/progressive Jewish
Magazine in the world, calls Netanyahu's speech "a self-contradictory
ruse which will not advance the peace process."
San Francisco, June 15, 2009
While welcoming Israel Prime Minister Netanyahu's speech at Bar Ilan
University on June 14 for its willingness to re-embrace the Two State
Solution that previous Israeli governments had already accepted, Rabbi
Michael Lerner, editor of Tikkun magazine, the world's largest
circulation liberal/progressive Jewish magazine,  sharply critiqued
the subtance of the speech as a "self-contradictory ruse that will not
advance the peace process."
Rabbi Lerner issued the following statement:
 "Prime Minister Netanyahu sounds reasonable when he says, 'I appeal
to you, our Palestinian neighbors, and to the leadership of the
Palestinian Authority. Let us begin peace negotiations immediately
without prior conditions.' Yet a few minutes later he tells his
audience that he will not meet with a Palestinian delegation that
includes representatives of Hamas, though they in fact represent a
significant section of the Palestinian people. What is that if not a
prior condition? We at Tikkun have no sympathy for Hamas or for its
acts of terror.  But we also recognize that countries seeking peace
must negotiate with their enemies, and to do so they cannot dictate to
their enemies who can be in the enemies' negotiating team. When the US
negotiated an end to the war in Vietnam it had to sit with
representatives of those who were continuing at that very moment to
engage in acts of terror and in killing American troops. Had we
refused to do so, the U.S. would still be fighting the war in Vietnam
today. So Netanyahu's speech, while appearing to be a reasonable
statement of a search for peace, when read more carefully is actually
a self-contradictory ruse that will not advance the peace process."
"Moreover," Rabbi Lerner continues, "once you recall that Netanyahu is
an expert at endless negotiations (his mentor, former Prime Minister
Shamir of the Likud party, commenting on why he agreed to negotiations
with the Palestinians in Madrid in 1991, pointed out that he would be
willing to sit in these negotiations for the next twenty years, and
never agree to anything that would end the settlements) the apparent
reasonableness of his talk decreases.  Netanyahu himself was part of
negotiations pressed on him by President Obama at Wye River, made
commitments and agreements, and then failed to implement them. There
was nothing in Netanyahu's talk on June 14, 2009,  that would lead
anyone familiar with this history to believe that Netanyahu has
something different in mind this time.
"Meanwhile, the Occupation continues and with it the rising anger of
Palestinians that pushes them to despair and hence to the embrace of
Hamas' fundamentalism and its fantasy of destroying Israel. The likely
outcome: there will be more terror attacks, and these attacks will be
used as the excuse for abandoning or postponing the negotiations even
after they've started, and nothing much will change in the daily life
situation of Palestinians.
"Rejecting the U.S. insistence that 'natural growth' of West Bank
settlements be ceased, ignoring the fact that the world community
including the U.S. has never recognized the legitimacy of any West
Bank settlements or Israel's annexation of the Arab sections of
Jerusalem, Netanyahu made it clear that that his notion of security
requires continued presence of the 400,000 Israeli settlers in the
West Bank (and one suspects that his call for a demilitarized
Palestinian state is a code for continued presence of the Israeli army
in the West Bank and continued presence of roads exclusively for use
of settlers on which Arabs are prohibited). His insistence that a
Palestinian state not be allowed to make treaty agreements with Iran
is of this same nature. What exactly does it mean to have a
Palestinian state if Israel is determining its policies? Not very
much.
"The Obama Administration, faced with Netanyahu's refusal to stop
natural growth, should articulate a fuller picture of steps that
Israel should take immediately to create a positive climate for
negotiations. Those steps should include: 1. Removal of all road
blocks and check points inside the West Bank. Israel has a perfect
right to these road blocks at its 1967 borders, and perhaps even just
before the entrance to Israeli settlements,  but not on West Bank
roads linking Palestinian cities and villages  2. Removal of all parts
of the Israeli Wall that have been built beyond the Green line (the
1967 boundaries of the State of Israel). 3. Ending Israel's blockade
of Gaza and allowing free entrance to Gaza of food, water, medical
supplies, fuel and consumer goods. 4. Opening of free unrestricted
travel between the West Bank and Gaza such as was promised by Israel
in the Oslo Accords 5. Ending the blockade by Israeli gunboats of
Gaza's access to the sea and reestablishing the right of Gazan fishing
boats to fish. 6. Freeing of Palestinian prisoners who have not been
granted a public trial and hence have never been convicted of any
crime. Far more than stopping "natural growth" of the settlements,
implementation of these steps would actually make quite a significant
difference in the daily lives of Palestinians. Of course, articulating
these ideas is useless unless they are backed by strong action to make
it clear that U.S. military and political support depends on immediate
and dramatic action on the part of Netanyahu's government, and that
doesn't simply mean engaging in negotiations, but actual changes on
the ground in the West Bank and Gaza.
"In turn, and without preconditions, the Palestinian Authority ought
to respond to Netanyahu's demand for positive reassurances by publicly
and unequivocally stating that the Palestinian people " have had
enough of this conflict. We recognize the right of the Jewish People
to a state its own in this Land. We will live side by side in true
peace. The State of Israel is the national homeland of the Jewish
People and will remain so." Many Palestinians claim that they've
already agreed to this and it never seems to be heard. Well, if so, it
will cost Palestinians nothing to say it over and over again.
Netanyahu reminded his listeners that 'The tragedies that arose from
the Jewish People's helplessness show very sharply that we need a
protective state'."
" Palestinians," Rabbi Lerner went on to say, "must recognize that
even though Israel has immensely greater power, that the Jewish people
are still suffering from Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, and that we
need to hear reassurances over and over again that we will not be
forced to re-experience that sense of helplessness again.  Conversely,
the Palestinian people are also suffering from PTSD, and it is is
Israel's responsibility to recognize that and speak in terms that
reassure Palestinians that their needs for a homeland and for
reparations for what they have suffered is taken seriously by Israel.
And if not by Israel, than at least by President Obama and the U.S.
Privately, Palestinians should signal that they would be willing to
accept demilitarization as a condition of the creation of a
Palestinian state, as long as that did not involve the presence of
Israeli troops or Israeli settlers in the West Bank (directly counter
to Netanyahu's claim in the June 14 speech that Israeli safety
requires the continued presence there of the 400,000 settlers, plus
"natural growth" of the sort he insists will continue).
Demilitarization could be enforced by a U.S., Nato or some other
international force. Palestinians should signal wiliness to accept
this if the Palestinian state that is offered is economically and
politically viable and not a set of isolated cantons.
"And this is what the U.S. can do: it can talk over the heads of the
Israeli and Palestinian leadership and over the heads of the pro-right-
wing Israel Lobby in the U.S. and present a full vision of what a
peaceful resolution of this conflict should be. And President Obama
should insist that both sides of this struggle hear the legitimacy of
the other side's version of history, and both sides should approach
each other in a spirit of repentance and open-hearted forgiveness. In
the final analysis, it is only that which can heal the PTSD on both
sides and make it possible for each side to embrace the peace that
majorities on both sides deeply desire and deeply believe is
impossible."
(unquote)
Ciao.

 Rabbi Lerner issued the following statement:
Cricetta, che un tempo voleva bombardare l'Irak e provava a farsi
passare per ebreo, crede di aver scoperto una fonte per il suo
ebraismo da sacrestia frmato universalista.
Rabbi?  In realtà Lerner è un "dropout from the Jewish Theological
Seminary’s rabbinical school" che ha ricevuto una "private ordination"
in una specie di centro buddhista, ed i nomi dei tre rabbini che
secondo lui lo avrebbero ordinato nel 1995 sono  sconosciuti. Dopo
aver proclamato in gioventù che le sinagoghe andavano "smashed" ha ben
pensato di fondarne una. Ma prima ha messo in piedi un  "Network di
spiritualità progressiva" che ha fatto capolino anche in Italia,
strombazzando chissà quale rivoluzione (c'era anche Moni Ovadia, e te
pareva) e poi non ne è seguito nulla. Il livello attuale della rivista
è bene esemplificato da questo articolo in difesa del nucleare nord
coreano 
http://www.tikkun.org/article.php/20090528105725478
Come si può vedere dal lungo sproloquio che Cricetta ha riversato in
questo ng, le sue qualità letterarie sono efficacemente riassunte da
Cynthia Ozik:
As a journalist, as a polemicist, as a putative philosopher, Rabbi
Lerner is chaotic, disorganized, frequently ungrammatical, self-
contradictory, puerile, and unbearably long-winded. Nevertheless, his
central point always comes through with radiant repetitive clarity:
Israel is culpable, Israel is wicked, Israel is an oppressor, and so
on.
E il resto su questo folklorico personaggio lo trovate qui
http://wernercohn.com/Resources/Reflections%20on%20Apostasy.pdf
Ora: per un certo periodo di tempo Lerner è sembrato interessante
anche a me - ma poi mi è capitato di iniziar studi che mi hanno
costretto a verificare le fonti dei suoi sproloqui, E il personaggio
mi è caduto, giusto qualche mese prima che i redattori ebrei della sua
rivista lo abbandonassero, rivelando che il Rabbi ha l'abitudine di
scrivere da solo le lettere alla rivista (che deve essere davvero
popolare ed autorevole...)

Cricetta
Sarebbe la sintesi tra Criceto [noto roditore] e Crocetta?
Grazie per la precisazione.
MMAX
ps
Ma Brenner non era moribondo?
-- 
http://bloggoanchio.splinder.com

Ma Brenner non era moribondo?
Ops..lerner
MMAX
-- 
http://bloggoanchio.splinder.com

 Sarebbe la sintesi tra Criceto [noto roditore] e Crocetta?
già

 Ops..lerner
non frequento quegli ambienti, compatisco chi ci casca.

 Ops..lerner
Brenner, il negazionista rosso. Buono anche quello...
Comunque di questo articolo del crocetta non mi impressiona tanto il
contenuto. Ognuno la pensa come vuole. Mi colpisce invece la disonestà
della titolazione del comunicato, che vorrebbe far credere all'ignorante
che gli ebrei "progressivi" (la corrente maggioritaria nel mondo) sono
il movimento di Lerner (che invece grosso modo è composto dal solo
Lerner).
-- 
Tb

Lerner).
Direi che il termine esatto sia "livoroso"...mah...
MMAX
-- 
http://bloggoanchio.splinder.com

 Direi che il termine esatto sia "livoroso"...mah...
in realtà Cricetta ha poco di originale. Come tanti, qui dentro, è
convinto di aver scoperto cosa non va in Israele, e ne incolpa gli
ebrei, che non corrispondono alle sue aspettative, che non mettono in
pratica quello che secondo lui è l'ebraismo. Il che non è che sia poi
così originale, giacché è fin dai tempi di Agostino che i cristiani
accusano gli ebrei di avere frainteso la Bibbia; e appena qualche
secolo dopo è diventato abituale rappresentare l'ebraismo come una non-
religione, un insieme di superstizioni barbare, arcaiche e tribali,
che gli ebrei per primi non osservano.
Non c'è molta differenza tra Cricetta e whippino, che quando si trova
senza argomenti si inventa che l'interlocutore scrive di Sabato. O chi
si inventa un falso-sionismo che avrebbe preso il posto del sionismo
vero, originario e vicino ai testi sacri. Quello che di Cricetta fa
ridere è che gli manca il coraggio di scrivere queste accuse nero su
bianco (sarà che teme si riveli la sua educazione cattolica; o per la
paura del confronto) e nel contempo si prende talmente sul serio da
scambiare questo ng per un terreno cruciale di conflitto. E quindi
riversa citazioni infinite di testi con i quali crede di mettere a
zittire definitivamente tutti quelli che non gli piacciono, di modo
che a discettare di ebraismo e sionismo resterà soltanto lui. E dopo
tutti questi anni di Usenet non ha ancora capito che non funziona
così, che tanto qui quanto in real life esiste qualcosa come "gli
altri esseri umani" che hanno gli stessi diritti che ha lui, anche se
lui pretende di saperne, sempre di più. E lo pigliano sistemativamente
per i fondelli.

in realt� Cricetta ha poco di originale. 
Ma si, so tutto..la cosa che continua a stupirmi � come per colpire le
persone alcuni soggetti mirino all'identita', di sponda, tutto qui.
Che sia un problema di religione?
MMAX
-- 
http://bloggoanchio.splinder.com

 l'ebraismo.
c'era una virgola di troppo.
<:3)-

 bianco
quindi stai ammettendo di fare l'ennesimo processo alle intenzioni.
Non è che hai qualche avo olandese di quelli che sistemarono per
benino Spinoza? La matrice è quella...

 Brenner, il negazionista rosso.
Brenner non nega niente, al contrario, svela quello che molti sionisti
nascondono...