Newsgroup: it.politica.internazionale
Titolo: insediamenti - capiamo meglio questa faccenda

un articolo del Jerusalem Post invita a considerare gli inseidamenti
in maniera meno monolitica e suggerisce che questo è già
l'atteggiamento prevalente tra gli israeliani ed i palestinesi.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c=JPArticle&cid=1195546702799&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Sense on settlements
, THE JERUSALEM POST 	Nov. 22, 2007
In its bid to join the pre-Annapolis jockeying, the Knesset voted this
week on two measures relating to settlement blocs and outposts. The
first, sponsored by Kadima MK Yoel Hasson, supported settlements in
high-density Jewish population areas in the West Bank. It passed 39 to
18 with the support of coalition MKs, except for the Labor Party.
Labor instead supported another measure, along with Meretz, which
called for the evacuation of 105 unauthorized outposts. That measure
was defeated 42 to 14.
All of this was somewhat predictable and largely superfluous. Yet
Hasson said something unusual for a supporter of the settlement
enterprise. "If we had invested energy in another city like Ariel and
another Ma'aleh Adumim, and not placing another 20 caravans here and
30 caravans there, maybe the settlement blocs would be much bigger,"
he declared in the plenum. It is these blocs "that will determine
Israel's permanent borders."
This sort of thinking is somewhat refreshing given that the debate
over settlements tends to be dominated by those who favor or oppose
all of them. Both the Left and the Right, each for its own reasons,
have been extremely reluctant to distinguish between "good" and "bad"
settlements.
Yet Hasson characterizes the view of many Israelis correctly when he
says, "There is majority support among the public and in the Knesset
to preserve the settlement blocs. ... Even the Palestinians understand
there are places that Israel will not evacuate under any
circumstances. There should be no argument with respect to continued
development of these areas, particularly along the lines of natural
growth."\
Actually, this sort of centrist position recalls the original
distinction employed by the Labor Party between "security" and
"ideological" settlements. Under the plan named after Labor defense
minister Yigal Allon, Labor governments worked toward the goal of
defensible borders - as stipulated by UN Security Resolution 242 -- by
establishing 21 settlements along the Jordan Valley and the eastern
slopes of the north-south ridge bisecting the West Bank.
While the Labor Party has largely abandoned this position and become
anti-settlement across the board (as indicated by this week's Knesset
vote), the logic of its original distinction remains. In principle, a
line can be drawn between settlements designed to secure Israel
territorially without blocking the creation of a Palestinian state,
and settlements that are designed precisely to block any sort of two-
state plan.
Both of the absolutist positions on settlements have been discredited
and abandoned by the Israeli majority. While most Israelis are
extremely skeptical that the Palestinians will be ready for peace
anytime soon, most agree that it is Israel's interest not to rule over
the Palestinians in the territories. The two-state concept has shifted
from anathema until the late 1980s to a mainstream view today.
At the same time, almost no Israeli can imagine going back to the 1967
lines and dismantling the settlement blocs. Further, following the
aftermaths of the unilateral withdrawals from Lebanon and Gaza, there
is little stomach for continuing with that model.
Illegal outposts, however, are another matter. Israel is committed to
removing them, and there is widespread agreement that such
commitments, along with the need to follow the rule of law, need to be
addressed regardless of the peace process or the near-complete lack of
confidence in Palestinian intentions or capabilities.
Given this, it makes sense that the absolutists on both side consider
the logic implicitly endorsed by the Israeli consensus. This would
mean "exchanging" the outposts for expansion of consensus settlements.
For this plan to work, of course, one of the absolutist parties, the
United States, would have to at least implicitly change its position.
While President George Bush made a nod in the direction of recognizing
settlement blocs in his letter to Ariel Sharon in April 2004,
officially the US remains opposed to all Israeli settlements.
It is time for the US, then, to discover the distinction made by the
Labor Party in the 1970s and by the Israeli consensus today. There is
a significant difference between settlements that hamper a two-state
plan and settlements that actually encourage such an outcome, by
imposing a territorial impetus for the Palestinians to end their war
against Israel sooner rather than later.
More explicit recognition by the US of settlement blocs would also
help the process by giving Israelis confidence that a two-state plan
will truly take Israel's requirement of defensible borders into
account. There will be no return to the pre-1967 lines, so stubbornly
sticking with a "zero settlement" policy makes a two-state plan less
realistic, not more so.

 account. There will be no return to the pre-1967 lines
patetico.
Patetico e triste.

 "prevalente".
cut.
pss: lo sai che il Jpost ha una sezione commenti?


ROTFL, sarà intasato da masse di palestinesi che si collegano facendo
a gara per commentare....

 growth.
Buonasera. Sono un goy e quindi, povero me, ho bisogno di qualcuno che
mi interpreti il concetto di "crescita naturale". Per esempio, a casa
mia i libri e le cianfrusaglie in generale crescono naturalmente e non
so più dove metterli. Capisco che il concetto di trovare spazio in casa
mia sia passatista, antidemocratico e forse anche un po' razzista. Sarei
pertanto interessato a sequestrare un pezzo di casa tua per avere uno
sbocco naturale alla mia crescita. Immagino che non avrai nulla in
contrario. Fatti più in là, grazie.
--
"il Logi è goi e quindi, poverino, abituato a credere che
quel che c'è scritto non necessiti di interpretazione"
(il cosiddetto agnosco/nahum/jabo/shampista/delafia/borat/andrea su
it.politica.internazionale, 26/10/06)

 contrario. Fatti più in là, grazie.
dentro il giardino di quella che adesso è casa mia, fino a poco tempo
fa, continuavano a cadere rifiuti che partivano dal viottolo che
divide casa tua da casa mia. I precedenti inquilini si sono rotti le
scatole e hanno spostato la recinzione fino a includere il predetto
viottolo. Io so benissimo che il viottolo deve tornare all'uso comune
precedente, ma adesso di rifiuti non ne arrivano più, mentre quelli
che abitano nella tua casa continuano a urlare che non appena il
viottolo torna libero loro ricominceranno a tirare monnezza e anzi
pure sassi. Facciamo che tu fai un po' di pulizia in casa, poi io ti
lascio il viottolo e ci puoi mettere tutte le tue cianfrusaglie. A
patto, naturalmente, che non siano pericolose. Guarda un po' se ci
trovi dentro le opinioni di Logi a proposito di una roba successa a
Saint Luis. Sembravano interessanti.

 lascio il viottolo e ci puoi mettere tutte le tue cianfrusaglie.
non č cosě lineare come la fai tu perchč ogni tanto i tuoi bambini
saltano il muro del viottolo e vengono spaccare qualche suppellettile
della mia casa e a servirsi nel mio frigorifero
se mi incazzo arriva tuo cuggino e butta giů un muro della mia casa con
la ruspa
continuo a non capire perchč ognuno non si possa fare la sua crescita
naturale in casa propria ma abbia bisogno di andare a farla nelle
colonie
--
"il Logi č goi e quindi, poverino, abituato a credere che
quel che c'č scritto non necessiti di interpretazione"


 colonie
lo dico pure a te: il J post ha una sezione commenti, vai e divertiti.
Attento a non postare là la tua opinione su Saint Luis, che sarebbe
OT.

 lo dico pure a te: il J post ha una sezione commenti, vai e divertiti.
direi che le pagine dei commenti di jpost e haaretz siano la calamita
degli spostati e dei razzisti (dei due campi)
--
"il Logi è goi e quindi, poverino, abituato a credere che
quel che c'è scritto non necessiti di interpretazione"


Ok, avrò capito male io.