Newsgroup: it.politica.internazionale
Titolo: Peggio dell'Apartheid

Ronnie Kasrils se ne intende.   Nato in Sud Africa da immigrati Ebrei-
Lettoni, ha iniziato a militare nell'ANC dal 1960, e fu uno dei
fondatori di Umkhontho We Sizwe, il "gruppo terrorista" (come veniva
chiamato a quel tempo) che combatte' contro il Sud Africa
dell'Apartheid.
Oggi e' ministro responsabile dei servizi segreti, il primo ministro
di origini Ebraiche in un paese che fino a vent'anni fa era governato
da simpatizzanti Nazisti.
http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=308966&area=/insight/insight__comment_and_analysis
Israel 2007: worse than apartheid
Ronnie Kasrils: COMMENT
21 May 2007 11:59
Travelling into Palestine's West Bank and Gaza Strip, which I visited
recently, is like a surreal trip back into an apartheid state of
emergency.
It is chilling to pass through the myriad checkpoints -- more than 500
in the West Bank. They are controlled by heavily armed soldiers,
youthful but grim, tensely watching every movement, fingers on the
trigger. Fortunately for me, travelling in a South African embassy
vehicle with official documents and escort, the delays were brief.
Sweeping past the lines of Palestinians on foot or in taxis was like a
view of the silent, depressed pass- office queues of South Africa's
past. A journey from one West Bank town to another that could take 20
minutes by car now takes seven hours for Palestinians, with manifold
indignities at the hands of teenage soldiers.
My friend, peace activist Terry Boullata, has virtually given up her
teaching job. The monstrous apartheid wall cuts off her East Jerusalem
house from her school, which was once across the road, and now takes
an hour's journey. Yet she is better off than the farmers of Qalqilya,
whose once prosperous agricultural town is totally surrounded by the
wall and economically wasted. There is only one gated entry point. The
key is with the occupation soldiers. Often they are not even there to
let anyone in or out.
Bethlehem too is totally enclosed by the wall, with two gated entry
points. The Israelis have added insult to injury by plastering the
entrances with giant scenic posters welcoming tourists to Christ's
birthplace.
The "security barrier", as the ­Israeli's term it, is designed to
crush the human spirit as much as to enclose the Palestinians in
ghettoes. Like a reptile, it transforms its shape and cuts across
agricultural lands as a steel-and-wire barrier, with watchtowers,
ditches, patrol roads and alarm systems. It will be 700km long and, at
a height of 8m to 9m in places, dwarfs the Berlin Wall.
The purpose of the barrier becomes clearest in open country. Its route
cuts huge swathes into the West Bank to incorporate into Israel the
illegal Jewish settlements -- some of which are huge towns -- and
annexes more and more Palestinian territory.
The Israelis claim the purpose of the wall is purely to keep out
terrorists. If that were the case, the Palestinians argue, why has it
not been built along the 1967 Green Line border? One can only agree
with the observation of Minister in the Presidency Essop Pahad, who
has stated: "It has become abundantly clear that the wall and
checkpoints are principally aimed at advancing the safety, convenience
and comfort of settlers."
The West Bank, once 22% of historic Palestine, has shrunk to perhaps
10% to 12% of living space for its inhabitants, and is split into
several fragments, including the fertile Jordan Valley, which is a
security preserve for Jewish settlers and the Israeli Defence Force.
Like the Gaza Strip, the West Bank is effectively a hermetically
sealed prison. It is shocking to discover that certain roads are
barred to Palestinians and reserved for Jewish settlers. I try in vain
to recall anything quite as obscene in apartheid South Africa.
Gaza provides a desolate landscape of poverty, grime and bombed-out
structures. Incon- gruously, we are able to host South Africa's
Freedom Day reception in a restaurant overlooking the splendid harbour
and beach. Gunfire ­rattles up and down the street, briefly
interrupting our proceedings, as some militia or other celebrates news
of the recovery from hospital of a wounded comrade. Idle fishing boats
bob in long lines in the harbour, for times are bad. They are confined
by Israel to 3km of the coast and fishing is consequently
unproductive. Yet, somehow, the guests are provided with a good feast
in best Palestinian tradition.
We are leaving through Tel Aviv airport and the Israeli official
catches my accent. "Are you South African?' he asks in an unmistakable
Gauteng accent. The young man left Benoni as a child in 1985. "How's
Israel?" I ask. "This is a f**ked-up place," he laughs, "I'm leaving
for Australia soon."
"Down under?" I think. I've just been, like Alice, down under into a
surreal world that is infinitely worse than apartheid. Within a few
hours I am in Northern Ireland, a guest at the swearing in of the
Stormont power-sharing government of Ian Paisley and Martin
McGuinness.
Not even PW Botha or Ariel ­Sharon were once as extreme as Ian Paisley
in his most riotous and bigoted days. Ireland was under England's boot
for 800 years, South Africa's colonial-apartheid order lasted 350
years. The Zionist colonial-settler project stems from the 1880s. The
Israeli ruling class, corrupt and with no vision, can no longer rule
in the old way. The ­Palestinians are not prepared to be suppressed
any longer. What is needed is Palestinian unity behind their
democratically elected national government, reinforced by popular
struggles of Palestinians and progressive Israelis, supported by
international solidarity.
South Africa's stated position is clear. The immediate demands are
recognition of the government of national unity, the lifting of
economic sanctions and blockade of the Palestinian territories, an end
to the 40-year-old military occupation and resumption of negotiations
for a two-state solution.
On a final note, the invitation to Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh as
head of a national unity government was welcomed by President Mahmoud
Abbas, and will be dealt with by our government.
As they say in Arabic: "Insha 'Allah [God-willing]."
Ronnie Kasrils is Minister of Intelligence

 Lettoni, ha iniziato a militare nell'ANC
 when you try it black... (poi sě che la mamma č contenta) 

  when you try it black... (poi sì che la mamma è contenta)
ti daranno finalmente una cattedra dopo questo reply intelligente ,
eh...


Boh, l'universita' dell'Orania potrebbe benissimo farlo.  Magari hanno
un'academic link col College of Judea and Samaria.  :-/
GT

appare irrilevante, perderci tempo č stupido.
Infatti.  La trovo una cosa molto ma molto ipocrita. (Persio)

 Ronnie Kasrils 
Lo posta 12 volte l'anno.
Cosa se ne potrebbe dedurre psicanaliticamente?
Tb
-- 
רפוה שלמה לחולה פרנץ בן יוסף וחנה

 Lo posta 12 volte l'anno.
So' forte, l'articolo e' di 3 giorni fa.
GT

So' forte, l'articolo e' di 3 giorni fa.
Ma le stronzate che scrive sono sempre le stesse :)


 un'academic link col College of Judea and Samaria.  :-/
Nahum, sappi che sono invidiosissimo della tua collezione di rosicate 
rossobrune. Mai visto niente del genere.


 Lo posta 12 volte l'anno.
l'articolo e' di qualche giorno fa.
Cosa c'e' che non va bene in questo articolo , che mi pare ti dia
fastidio.


 Ma le stronzate che scrive sono sempre le stesse :)
Eh.


 l'articolo e' di qualche giorno fa.
Ma Ronnie Katskill, il piccolo eroe antisionista di Torrieri scrive sempre lo 
stesso articolo.
Rivolgiti al reply di De Cesari, per tutta la confutazione che serve.


 Rivolgiti al reply di De Cesari, per tutta la confutazione che serve.
a De Cesari? rotfl! Sei ridotto male , tb .

 puoi indicare gli altri
Fatti una ricerca di google. Io l'avro (brevemente) commentato almeno tre volte.
E' l'approccio speculare a quello della faith. Giornalisticamente, è pornografia 
(o talvolta invnzione) della sofferenza senza nessuna analisi. O almeno nessuna 
che sia nemmeno minimamente condivisibile. Roba che serve ad entusiasmare animi 
fanatici che hanno bisogno di un po' di nutrimento per la loro guerra, reale o 
virtuale.
Insomma, un altro idiota che cerca di seminare odio fingendo di parlar d'amore.
Questo giornalisticamente. Per la disanima psicanalitica sui rapporti del nostro 
idiota con la violenza implacabile degli ebrei, segui il gruppo.


 Insomma, un altro idiota che cerca di seminare odio
tutti quelli che dicono cose scomode per il tuo punto di vista sono
"seminatori di odio". Interessante, tb.
 
-- 
questo articolo e` stato inviato via web dal servizio gratuito 
http://www.newsland.it/news
 segnala gli abusi ad 
ab...@newsland.it

 Ma Ronnie Katskill, il piccolo eroe antisionista di Torrieri
Antisionista non so, eroe senz'altro.  Certo, invece di entrare nella
resistenza all'Apartheid, poteva darsi ai blog...
GT

sergio. ha scritto:




Sono addetti allo stesso pc: due facce della stessa medaglia. Scaricati da
tempo!
gus


Certo, invece di entrare nella resistenza all'Apartheid
Terrorismo = resistenza all'apartheid :)


 Lo posta 12 volte l'anno.
Ecco la prossima.       Ovviamente, non per te, che non capisci un
cazzo.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/862911.html
Cry the Beloved Country
By  Gideon Levy
PRETORIA, South Africa - It was like being in the movies. Only there
would you see an inert photo suddenly come to life. We were standing
at the memorial museum in Soweto, next to a photo of a dead boy with
other children around him, and our guide Antoinette was telling us
about it. Antoinette said that the young girl in the picture was her.
The photo is at the entrance of the museum, built to commemorate the
blacks' struggle against apartheid, which began here. Across the way
is Nelson Mandela's tiny hut, nearby is the house of Desmond Tutu and
down the street is the present home of Winnie Mandela.
The picture was stunningly familiar to us. We were four: MK Ran Cohen
(Meretz); Riyad Mansour, the Palestinian ambassador to the United
Nations; Diana Buttu, a former legal advisor to the PLO; and myself.
We were all making the same associations: Hector is Mohammed al-Dura;
the white soldiers shooting at children are us.
The passage of time was evident with Antoinette. The teenager in the
picture was now a woman in her late forties. Her brother would have
been 44, but a bullet from the rifle of a white policeman deprived him
of the chance to witness the miracle of how the cruel racist regime
collapsed.
It was another UN conference about peace with the Palestinians, but
this time it was being held in a particularly "loaded" location. We
were only two Israelis there, but the calling cards I collected were
quite varied: Arab and African ambassadors, the previous Egyptian
foreign minister, representatives of Muslim countries and diplomats
posted in Pretoria. The Syrian ambassador smiled and did not offer his
card; the Libyan ambassador did the same. But they listened to us
attentively.
The new regime has been good for South Africa; no Palestinian refugee
camp looks nearly as attractive as Soweto 2007. But not far away is a
shantytown called Alexandra and the sights there are worse than in any
Palestinian refugee camp we've seen. This is where South African
blacks who haven't been able to pull themselves out of poverty live,
together with refugees from neighboring Zimbabwe.
Less than a kilometer separates the impoverished Alexandra from a
fancy Johannesburg neighborhood called Sandton. There, behind the
electric fences and personal bodyguards, hide the city's wealthy -
many of them Jews and a good number former Israelis. On Shabbat we ate
cholent. On Friday night we dined with a former Israeli from Nahalal.
We drove to Alexandra with a guy who originally hails from Tivon, who
has been here for 30 years and owns a huge agricultural enterprise
that employs 1,800 black workers earning $2 an hour.
It's impossible not to admire what has occurred in this battered land
since the yoke of white tyranny was lifted.
Not in his name
At the conference luncheon, Ronnie Kasrils, South Africa's minister
for intelligence services, hurried over to grab a seat next to us.
Kasrils, a Jew, had never been to Israel (where he has relatives)
until his visit to the territories earlier in the month, when he
invited Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh to his country. He
then made his first, quick trip to Tel Aviv, saw Rabin Square and ate
fish in Jaffa. "It was the most pleasant evening I had," he
acknowledges.
Tom Segev once wrote that he is "a guy I wouldn't choose to be stuck
in an elevator with," but I would be glad to get stuck with Ronnie
Kasrils, inside or outside an elevator. He is a Jew in conflict with
his people, perhaps also with his identity - a courageous freedom
fighter and communist, who joined the oppressed race in its struggle,
was exiled from his country for 27 years and is now a minister.
A son of Lithuanian Jews, who had a bar mitzvah and belonged to Jewish
youth movements, Kasrils is one of the most fascinating characters to
come out of the local Jewish community - which now thoroughly
denounces him. He brandishes his Jewishness openly, perhaps defiantly,
even when he recently made an official visit to Iran and Syria. He
once founded a movement called "Not in My Name," to underscore his
disassociation from the injustices committed by Israel in the
territories. Ronnie Kasrils hates the Israeli occupation.
When we talked he said the Israeli occupation is worse than apartheid:
The whites never shelled the black neighborhoods with tanks and
artillery.
Just like the pogroms
If this warm, outgoing 69-year-old has any personal security
protection, it is invisible. We sat in a vacant room in a building on
the University of Pretoria campus and talked. "You're an Israeli and
I'm a South African," he emphasized immediately, as if to negate any
common identity. "I'm confident that the circle will be closed one day
and people will understand that I'm not anti-Jewish or anti-
Israeli ... It really pains me as a Jew that in this country such
hostility has developed toward Israel, because of its treatment of the
Palestinians ...
"When we saw on television the drama going on in your country, the
oppressive pictures of the methods you use toward the Palestinians,
the uprooting of trees, the tanks entering Jenin, and the old woman
weeping over the demolition of her house and crying 'The Jews, the
Jews' - it's just like what my grandmother used to tell me about the
pogroms: The Cossacks are coming, the Cossacks are coming. I'm trying
to say: It's not the Jews, it's Zionisms that's doing this. So I
decided to get up and say something. I found this in the Jewish
tradition: to open your mouth, in the name of conscience.
"The man who greeted me when I returned to South Africa after the
years of exile was Rabbi Cyril Harris ... He gave me a red skullcap
with a dedication: to the freedom fighter. When I started to express
criticism of Israel, I thought that the Jews would denounce Ariel
Sharon, but then I found out that I was naive. I was stunned to see
that the Jewish community here didn't care who was in power in Israel
and how extreme the policy was against the Palestinians ... They would
blindly support any government. Rabbi Harris became my enemy. He
called me a fringe Jew and my response was: We were the only ones who
stood up against apartheid and now we're the minority against the
injustice.
"When I visited the territories I also passed through Israel and I saw
the forests that cover the remnants of the Palestinian villages. As a
former forestry minister, this was especially striking to me. I also
went into a few settlements. It was insane. Young Americans spat on
the flag that was on my car. The occupation reminds me of the darkest
days of apartheid, but we never saw tanks and planes firing at a
civilian population. It's a monstrousness I'd never seen before. The
wall you built, the checkpoints and the roads for Jews only - it turns
the stomach, even for someone who grew up under apartheid. It's a
hundred times worse.
"We know from our experience that oppression motivates resistance and
that the more savage the oppression, the harsher the resistance. At a
certain point in time you think that the oppression is working, and
that you're controlling the other people, imprisoning its leaders and
its activists, but the resistance will triumph in the end.
"We saw the entrance to Qalqilyah, the wall, the people standing hours
in line at the checkpoints. It's a beautiful country, I love its
landscapes, but I know that it's big enough to contain more people.
Israel has developed very impressively, but how much more impressive
it would be if you brought about a just solution ... I don't care if
it's two states or one - it's up to you, the Israelis and the
Palestinians, to decide.
"I had coffee with the commander of the Erez checkpoint. It reminded
me of the central prison in Pretoria, a place I've visited many times.
And it was so awful to go through this thing in order to get to Gaza.
At first I said that I don't want to speak with the man at the
checkpoint, but then I decided that was foolish. The Israelis were
actually very nice to me.
"What is Zionism to me? When I was 10 years old, it meant security and
a national home for the Jews. I waved the Israeli flag at my bar
mitzvah and I was very proud of my Judaism. The first book I received
for my bar mitzvah was 'The Revolt,' by Menachem Begin. My biggest
hero was Asher Ginsberg, Ahad Ha'am ... Later on I started reading not
only Herzl, but also [historians] Ilan Pappe, Benny Morris and Tom
Segev, and I came to see 1948 in a different light. I understood that
it was an ethnic cleansing.
"South Africa changed me and strengthened my South African identity.
And then I began to understand that the main problem of Zionism is the
exclusivity of the establishment of a national home and the concept of
the chosen people. Very soon I started to oppose it. The establishment
of a national home for Jews alone seemed to me like a parallel of
apartheid. The apartheid leaders also spoke about a chosen people. In
1961, prime minister Hendrik Verwoerd said that Israel is like South
Africa. That opened my eyes. For many years we were also aware of the
military cooperation between Israel and South Africa - a joint
offensive naval force, missile boats, the Cheetah planes and the big
secret of the nuclear weapons. Prime minister Johannes Vorster, who
had a declared Nazi past, received a hero's welcome from you. This
added to my feelings regarding Israel.
"I am very conscious of the Holocaust and of anti-Semitism, but my
experience here leads me to one conclusion: that all forms of racism
must be fought by means of a common struggle. I have a dream: That you
will change your outlook, as happened here, and that change will come.
When politicians reach agreements, it's amazing how fast ordinary
folks can come to a change in thinking. Change the leadership and the
economic conditions and you'll see how easy the change is."