Newsgroup: it.politica.internazionale
Titolo: Brutte sorprese per l'IDF sul fronte libanese (CNN-WP)

Due articoli di oggi della CNN e il Washington Post
Del primo do' solo l'indirizzo
- Iranians volunteer to fight Israel (CNN)
http://tinyurl.com/jwper
Del secondo dei brani
- Hezbollah proves a formidable foe (WP)
http://tinyurl.com/gjcsa
Cito alcuni passi per mostrare il tipo di difficolta' che sta 
incontrando l'IDF,  che ritarderanno forse di settimane il cessate il 
fuoco:
"Obviously it's more difficult than what was anticipated," said Yossi 
Alpher, a former official of Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service, 
who once ran the Jaffe Center for Strategic Studies at Tel Aviv 
University. "I dare say, based on what we've seen so far, these may be 
the best Arab troops we've ever faced."
"Moving in tanks and on foot in the town of Bint Jbeil, troops walked 
into an ambush by scores of Hezbollah fighters, who appeared from 
tunnels, bunkers and houses. There were reports of hand-to-hand combat 
and gunfire exchanged at point-blank range.
"Here, instead of making the decision to destroy, we are fighting in the 
streets," said Yaakov Amidror, a retired major general who served as 
head of the assessment and evaluation division of Israel's military 
intelligence. "It is very costly, and the result may lead to another 
kind of decision in the future at the tactical level. If we have to rely 
on our overwhelming advantage in firepower to protect the infantry, it 
will be very devastating for Lebanese civilians."
Israeli commanders said they expected to encounter roughly half the 
number of Hezbollah fighters that they actually found in the town when 
they entered after encircling it the previous day. Armed with rifles, 
grenades and laser-guided antitank missiles, the gunmen fired from 
houses, alleys and tunnels laced through their border strongholds.
"Whether this declaration of control created false expectation just 
within the public or inside the IDF itself, I don't know," said Alpher, 
the former Mossad official, referring to the Israel Defense Forces. "But 
if this is the assessment that came down from south Lebanon, it 
indicates that these troops did not have a clear idea of what 
controlling the town meant, which gets back to the problem of 
intelligence."
On the other side of the border, Hezbollah officials also described an 
ambush in which their fighters used antitank weapons.
"The Israelis took some bad losses," said Mahmoud Qomati, a member of 
Hezbollah's political bureau, adding that Israeli tanks penetrated Bint 
Jbeil but were quickly enveloped by Hezbollah fighters lying in ambush 
and armed with the antitank weapons.
Qomati said 15 days of fighting have proved that Hezbollah militia 
troops can hold their own against Israeli soldiers on the ground. Even 
with Israeli control of the air, he said, the group has the munitions, 
equipment and morale to continue fighting "for months."
"That's war," Qomati said. "We take losses, but so do the Israelis."
The core group has received the most training, particularly in the 
operation of missiles and rockets. Its members are highly motivated, 
having received guarantees that their families will be looked after and 
their children educated at Hezbollah's expense if they die in combat.
Most of the resistance to Israeli incursions into Lebanon over the past 
two weeks has involved the use of assault rifles, rocket-propelled 
grenades and antitank missiles, including what Israeli officials say are 
versions or copies of powerful and accurate Russian- and U.S.-made 
weapons...
Nasrallah, who was only 32 when he assumed command, gave the southern 
militia forces more autonomy from the headquarters in Beirut's southern 
suburbs, Goksel said. Southern Lebanon was broken into three regional 
commands, with the leader of each reporting directly to Nasrallah.
The loose structure has helped prevent Israel's intensive bombing over 
the last two weeks from disrupting communications or lines of command 
and control. With guerrillas fighting in their home villages and arms 
cached in tunnels and underground shelters, there are few vital command 
lines to attack.
"The command and control system is this," Goksel said, holding up a 
cellphone.

 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/26/AR2006072601714.html?nav=rss_print/asection
Infatti, appare che sul fronte di terra la IDF stia subendo un rateo
di perdite pari a 1:5 (ma i numeri sono piccoli). Erano abituati a
1:10, quindi considerano un combattente di Hezbollah pari a due
combattenti arabi normali.
Questo in piccole operazioni di terra, dove stanno attenti a non
radere tutto al suolo; al contrario di Hezbollah.
Dubito che il rateo di perdite sarebbe lo stesso, se smettessero di
preoccuparsi dei civili non innocenti (quelli che sostengono Hezbollah).
Mirco

 preoccuparsi dei civili non innocenti (quelli che sostengono Hezbollah).
Gia' perche' ce ne sono e anche parecchi, pare forse qui non tutti si 
rendono conto che hezbollah sono principalmente libanesi.
Am.

 
http://tinyurl.com/gjcsa
Finora il massimo del suo valore l'esercito israeliano l'ha dimostrato 
esercitandosi al tiro a segno sul Libano e schiacciando Gaza sotto i tank.
Ora, pur essendo sempre enormemente più forte del suo avversario, ha l'occasione 
di provarlo anche con chi non è del tutto indifeso.
Dovrebbe essere lieto di poter acquistare in questo modo un più grande onore 
militare.

 militare.
Ehm, non e' proprio solo una questione di onore. Ci sono dodicimila 
missili da trovare, ci sono la Siria e l'Iran dietro.
Am.

 guerrillas, some in gunbattles at point-blank range.
e quindi Hezbollah ha perso 40 militanti bene addestrati, armati ed
equipaggiati, non che la cittadina e le sue basi.
Qualcuno ha numero di prigionieri o di feriti?
Questo sarebbe il meglio che Hezbollah può buttare contro l'IDF?
Un rapporto di perdite di 1:5 nelle condizioni migliori possibili?
Mirco

amalric ha scritto:
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Per me, ma non solo per me spero, conta anche l'onore.  In particolare nelle 
cose militari, altrimenti non c'è più distinzione tra barbarie e civiltà.


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ma che bravi
bombardano i loro villaggi e si aspettano di essere ricevuti con le
caramelle.
ma buttiamo un pň di WMD che ad IL non mancano e cosě sterminiamo tutti
questi civili combattenti (o potenziali combattenti... meglio prevenire).
Fate veramente rabbrividire...
S.

Fate veramente rabbrividire...
Hai fatto tutto da solo.
Prendi quindi atto delle orrende stronzate che hai scritto.
-Stefano