Newsgroup: it.sport.ciclismo
Titolo: Luperini

Hello,
English,
I could use a translation site to convert your language into English but if
you can type English, I prefer that.
I have never posted here before, but if you feel you can give some
insightful feedback from the Italian cycling community, then I would be keen
to hear from any of you. I have been a fan of Luperini for a couple of years
now. I am from American and since I don't read Italian language and have
been limited from what I can learn of cycling world in Europe by a handful
of cycling websites in American, I am slow to learn about your great Italian
cycling hero Fabiana Luperini.
 I know she has won 4 tours of Italy, (Giro- 95, 96, 97, 98) and 3 Tours of
France, 95, 96, 97, also Trentino, Freccia Lady many times plus many smaller
races. I believe she is the greatest women climber that ever lived and
arguably the greatest women pro road racer of all times, only in the company
of Longo and Van Moorsel. Surely only these three are the tops three of all
times and Luperini wins in the Grand Tours and the way she won them, many on
solo breakaways make her the Coppi or Merckx of her era. No other rider has
won so many races solo in such grand style over the years by such huge
margins. Her wins are an incredible feat of sheer willpower, stamina and
endurance the likes of which have not been seen since the days of Merckx. Of
course her best years ended in 1998 and she did have some wins in 2000 to
the present day like last years Italian National Championships. Her solo
effort at age 31 was grand and was one that showed the Luperini of old, and
especially in her home province of Pisa. I think that was certainly one of
her best recent efforts.
My questions to the Italian cycling fans who have their ears close to the
ground in Italy would be this. How does the Italian cycling world feel about
Luperini's great victories over the past decade. Is she greatly admired and
respected by the Italian cycling community for her exploits over the past
decade? Does she still have a loyal fan base today in Italy? How do the
Italian cycling community feel about her positive test for steroids a few
years back? I have heard that she does not use drugs and that she was
cleared on the charges. I have also heard her image had taken a hit from the
investigation. I would like to believe that Luperini is clean and has always
been clean. Even if she did try it once I can forgive her for that. I am
still a big fan of Luperini and I will still be her loyal fan, even if she
had a positive test but I would like to know how the Italian cycling world
feels about possibly the greatest women pro road racer of all times?
Thanks,
Kind Regards,
Bruce

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:9_-dnRXEFtx...@sti.net...

Hi Bruce, we have on this newsgroup a Luperini "almost neighbour", Mr Sergio 
Servadio, who lives in Pisa and knows her father personally.
He can probably give you a more insightful view than mine, as I can give you 
only my personal opinion: it's always hard to represent a whole community.
Luperini had a lot of fans during her best years, and she acheived to win 
both Giro and Tour for three years in a row... this is something that nobody 
has ever done, not even Merckx. However, big part of the fame that cyclists 
gain is given to them by the media. Luperini had the bad luck of getting her 
best victories in a time while there was only a name for cycling in Italy: 
Pantani. That certaily didn't help her shine, but at that time she was 
basically the *only* Italian female cyclists that the media talked about 
besides Paola Pezzo.
Also, remember that even if she was one of the greatest cyclists ever, she 
is a woman, and the media follow only mens' races... maybe 2-3% of all the 
interest for cycling here revlves around womens' races.
Finally the investigations and the fans. I was recently at one race and 
Fabiana was part of the peloton. I noticed that the speaker and the audience 
cheered her, and overall everybody liked her. She was certainly the most 
requested by fans at the end of the race. The investigation cast a shade 
over her career, but as usual, that was quickly forgotten and nobody knows 
how it ended up.
Ciao
Luca 

 > Sergio Servadio, who lives in Pisa ...
You would have what?
Sergio Servadio, PhD

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:2mS0e.21110$kC3....@tornado.fastwebnet.it...

I would have... expected a longer post from you, sweetheart!
Ciao
Luca 

"Luca Magnoni" <l u c a . m a g n o n i @ t i n . i t> wrote in message
news:3ahvmfF...@individual.net...

Thanks so much for the thoughtful response. I was hoping to hear from others
too. Maybe a few more will be forthcoming. Have you met Faby in person?
Bruce

 besides Paola Pezzo.
I don't think that was bad luck at all.
She was often compared to Pantani cause both of them were at the moment the 
greatest climbers; she was basically the female Pantani,  "Pantanina" or 
something like that.
That said, if she was not as famous as any of her male colleagues, that was 
just because female cycling is not nearly as popular as male cycling, that's 
all, and you can only see some short comments and reports about the female 
Giro d'Italia and the elite road race at World Championship on TV.


She was often compared to Pantani cause both of them......
.....were not able to repeat incredible performances after a positive
test :-))
-- 
30x26

 Giro d'Italia and the elite road race at World Championship on TV.
Luperini had already won 3 Giros and three Tours of France before Pantani
won his first and only Tour of France in 1998. Pantani only won the TDF
once, and instead of Luperini being compared to Pantani as the female
Pantanina, I would think it should be the other way around, that Pantani
would be some what compared to Luperini greatness and statue, but not
anywhere near as great, (IMO). If we can judge men and women on their
accomplishments then surely Pantani doesn't even come close to Luperini in
stature and greatness. Luperini is still racing today, not the great
champion of old, but she is a survivor. I think some of the top pros who
went to Luperini's races to give her a kiss and wish her well did capture of
the respect of her male peers, not all, but that is impressive. Indurain
also has visited the womens pro races in Europe to wish them well on
occasions.
Bruce


Positive test ?
You sure are talking about Luperini..... 

 stature and greatness.
It could, maybe it should be this way....i think a lot of female sports are 
terribly boring.
I mean, try to watch a female volleyball match.......it's like to see 
another sport....volleyball at 2 km/h (sorry, 3.2 miles/h) while male 
volleyball is like 100 times faster.
The same applies to cycling.
Besides, you surely know what is the place for a woman: the 
kitchen........:-P
 

You sure are talking about Luperini..... 
http://www.sportpro-archivio.it/doping/2002/06.htm#LUPERINI
and
http://www.geocities.com/sirioweb/Sport/Ciclismo/News.html
-- 
30x26


Uhm.....so what ?
I knew Luperin faced a suspension for a positive test, Pantani didn't..... 

I knew Luperin faced a suspension for a positive test, Pantani didn't..... 
guarda facciamo fatica a capirci in italiano, figurati in inglese. 
se ti cambia qualcosa correggo dicendo che nessuno dei due e' stato in
grado di ripetersi dopo essere stato trovato in condizioni non
compatibili con la pratica agonistica. condizioni non compatibili
perche' facilitano l' incremento delle prestazioni. 
a quanto pare uno ha subito una congiura (reiterata, visto che era
gia' sotto congiura dal ricovero dopo la milano-torino), l'altra e'
stata vittima di un integratore malandrino. poverini, entrambi davvero
sfortunati.
-- 
30x26


puň darsi, in ambo i casi la decenza, anche qui, dovrebbe suggerirti, se ne 
avessi, di lavarti la bocca, o meglio le mani, prima di digitare i loro nomi 
sulla tastiera. 

 kitchen........:-P
Well, it depends on interest. I too don't follow any women sports except
cycling. Sometimes tennis and ice skating is fun to watch, but mainly I
enjoy cycling. To me cycling is much more exciting even when the women race.
It's the same old problem. If we could ever get over the arguments that a
top pro women road racer is equal to about at best a category 2 men's, we
could enjoy the women's races more. I mean they suffer, they crash, they
cry, and the best women in the world today are impressive to watch. The
grand tours bring out the best action and narrow down the best climbers in
the world. I have 2003 TDF on tape and the action between Faby, Somaribba
and Brandli was fantastic. With the men its guts and glory, but with the
women its more grace, beauty and some guts and glory. I think the worlds in
Hamilton was excellent where Melchers and Cooke paced frantically to catch
Longo at the end. That was a great race. The women have had their share of
great races. I think Faby's best were some of the Freccia Ladies, Trentino,
and of course the Grand Tours always had great action.
Women's place in the kitchen? Humm... sounds like old world. That would
never fly over here in the US. :-)

Nel caso di Pantani non è mai stato provato.
oh si' che la condizione innaturale e non idonea e' stata 
provata. leggiti la sentenza del processo. c'e' anche sul sito del tuo
amico capodaqua, insieme ad una terrificante lista di ematocriti
emersa durante le indagini. 
questi i due passaggi fondamentali:
" l'analisi congiunta del testo dell'art. 1 della L. n°401/89, in
relazione al senso reso palese dal significato delle parole e dalla
loro connessione, e dell'intenzione del legislatore, quale emerge dal
contesto storico in cui fu approvata la norma, dalle sue finalità e
dalle vicende parlamentari che hanno connotato il dibattimento sulla
punibilità dell'atleta assuntore di sostanze dopanti, induce a
ritenere che il fatto attribuito a PANTANI, risalente all'anno 1999,
non fosse previsto come reato dalle leggi all'epoca vigenti, con i
conseguenti effetti di non punibilità previsti dall'art. 2 primo comma
del codice penale"
"alla luce della testimoniale, ma soprattutto, dalle indicazioni
fornite dai consulenti tecnici del PM., si e potuto giungere alla
conclusione che il valore anomalo dell'ematocrito riscontrato nel caso
del controllo effettuato *regolarmente in tutte le sue modalità di
prelievo e di conservazione* del 5.6.1999 durante la tappa del "Giro
d'Italia" in Madonna di Campiglio era stato certamente dovuto ad una
stimolazione farmacologica del midollo eritroide attraverso
l'assunzione di eritropoietina (EPO), farmaco destinato ad altri scopi
terapeutici, quali la cura di rare e gravi patologie ed incluso nel
regolamento del controllo antidoping della Federazione Ciclistica
Italiana per l'anno '99, nonché, comportante l'esclusione cautelativa
dalle corse, secondo il vigente protocollo dell'U.C.I. "
in sintesi e' stato assolto perche' "all'epoca i fatti non
costituivano reato" ma ne sono dimostrate le pratiche atte a
migliorare artificialmente la performance. 
probabilmente per te si tratta di una assoluzione soddisfacente, per
me si tratta di un buco nella legislazione italiana e di provata
condotta antisportiva. 
-- 
30x26


not even in Italy :-) 


Veramente il buco grave nella legislazione italiana è l'assunzione di 
colpevolezza tramite la valutazione di questi parametri.
Sulla base degli stessi elementi un mese fa Bortolami è stato assolto con 
formula piena dalla stessa accusa....
come vedi il tutto è opinabile anche in questo caso......
sei sicuro che il tuo amico Capodacqua l'abbia riportato ?
Nel dubbio guarda qui
http://sports.virgilio.it/it/cmc/calcio/20058/cmc_78956.html
insomma, l'unico modo che testimonia in modo incontrovertibile l'uso di 
sostanza dopanti, ovvero la positività a una data sostanza, non è 
applicavile al caso di Pantani.
Cordiali saluti 

 I mean, Compagnoni, Di Centa and Belmondo, Vezzali, Trillini, Fiona May...
Luperini at her best between 1995 and 1998 could be compared to the Canadian
Genevieve Jeanson who is also a great climber. On Mount Washington, over 20
percent I believe, even cat-1 and 2 men were either unable or had trouble
catching her or passing her. Now that is exciting to see a women beat a top
pro. In fact Luperini probably could out climb some pros who drop out of the
TDF and can't climb. Many of these guys quit when it comes to the mountains.
There is no way to tell how many  men that are pros, Luperini could of out
climbed when she was in her best years. Now that is interesting and looking
at it from a riders perspective, even cat-1 and 2 riders here in America
could respect that a women could achieve that level of excellent. I would
like to see Jeanson go head to head with Faby when she was at her best. I
think Faby would win.
I was reading some of your posts with 30x26. I had an idea about what was
said since I used translation software. Since you were discussing drug
policies I thought I would throw in my two cents here. I have talked to a
few very reliable sources for both men and women cycling website in Italy
who are close to the women, and they have assured me that Luperini doesn't
use drugs and that she was cleared on the charges, so to speak, but she
received a suspension. I suppose it is possible that she might of tried it
once and decided the benefits were not that great. Surely most of her career
wins were clean and if she used it, it must of been after her best years,
after 98, and more then likely if at all, only a time or two, because if you
look at her career since 98 she hasn't won hardly anything, so certainly
drugs wouldn't be helping her then or now. Anyway, I think the best part
about Luperini is that the bulk of her career wins were clean, and that does
impress me.
I know a few top pro women here in the USA. One that I talk too regularly
has told me that one of her team mates was on a top pro women's team in
Italy, and she quit the team and came back home because she said all the
women on the team were doping and she just didn't want to do it. From what I
understand there is very little doping going on here in the women's teams
here in America, but more so on the men's teams. However until recently,
this last year or so, I was under the impression that the women's teams in
Europe were mostly clean. I suppose I was wrong, I can't say completely, I
don't know, but obviously we know about doping with the men in Europe, and
of course it is a problem with the men over here in the US as well. Even so,
I think the women's racing in Italy is great action, fun to watch, and I
think the way the fans support their racers with fan clubs is great. They
don't do that here in America, not like that. I know Luperini had an
excellent fan club, as did Claudio Chiappucci I think, certainly Pantani or
Bugno did as well.
Bruce

 of course it is a problem with the men over here in the US as well.
This is what Nicole Cooke thinks about doping in women's cycling.
http://www.loopdiloop.com/folderol/2004/08/cycling-nicole-cooke.asp
...
"I have just expressed how I feel," she said. "I think sport is about 
the best person winning. I don't think it has to be fair, because there 
are tactics and training, but everyone can use those to win. When I win 
I want to know it's because I am the best, not because I have the best 
doctor. I want to be proud of what I have achieved. I don't see how 
anyone can be proud of winning [if they use drugs]."
Women's racing is not devoid of the problem, she says, but the rewards 
are minimal. For her Giro d'Italia win she took home €360 (£240), plus a 
bonus from the team, "but don't go thinking that's a lot". As a result, 
she says, "the very large majority of the field are clean. For women, 
there is also the question of after cycling. Will it affect you having 
kids? What will it do to your body?"
She has not, she says, been offered drugs, "but it wouldn't take much 
searching to find a supplier". She has also seen amateurs come to 
Italian cycling clubs in search of a professional contract and be told 
that if they do not conform to the team's medical programme they will 
not be taken on.
Cooke is among the few cyclists who feel they are not tested enough, and 
says she will support measures to be taken by the cycling World Class 
Performance Plan to prevent a repetition of the Millar episode. "I got 
my licence at the start of January and was not tested until the British 
championship in June. I went eight months without testing. They should 
be saying: 'As this rider is a favourite for the Olympic road race, 
let's go and test her out of competition.'"
PS. Nicole Cooke and Modesta Vzesniauskaite
http://www.laborraccia.it/images/20050212%20nobili%20rubinetterie08.jpg
are my favorite riders.
-- 
Il segreto della felicita' non e' di far sempre cio' che si vuole, ma di 
voler sempre cio' che si fa. (Lev Tolstoj)

 are my favorite riders.
Nice photo!
I like this one of Brandli.
http://www.laborraccia.it/images/20041002%20mondiali002%20braendli.JPG
I used to like Leontien but she retired. Dede Berry also retired.
Dotsie is cute but she hasn't turned into a superstar yet.
http://www.dotsiecowden.net/
I like Edita and Bouba, Joanne, Gilmore is wild women. Lynn Bessette is one
of my favorites.
http://www.geocities.com/lynebessette/
http://www.bouba.it
http://www.editapucinskaite.com
http://www.joanesomarriba.com
http://www.nicole-braendli.ch
http://www.rochellegilmore.com
This girl here is interesting.
http://www.paolagiacomelli.it
Best women photo archives on the net are Willlam and Walters stuff.
http://www.ladiescycling.net
http://www.laborraccia.it/