Newsgroup: it.sport.ciclismo
Titolo: Debunking of Nicole Cooke!

It's going to take some time, but I think I can put things into perspective
and bring people back to earth. Perhaps it would be better to let the dust
settle first!! :-)
B-

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Debunking???...she is so great...and she's only 23...and in the past 
years she had a lot of annoying problems that prevent her from 
conquering the world over and over :-)...
-- 
http://modesta.biciticino.ch
Il sito dedicato alla giovane ciclista lituana Modesta Vzesniauskaite

 conquering the world over and over :-)...
Seriously???
We don't know (if) she is a great climber yet? I mean they didn't know Sea
Biscuit was the best until he beat War Admiral! Nicole has never gone head
to head with Brandli, Luperini and Somaribba, and sadly Joane has retired.
Luperini is well, still a very good climber, but her best days are behind
her. Brandli is still climbing well. Grande Boucle was too short this year
and didn't have any War Admiral's to challenge Sea Biscuit.
We won't know if Sea Biscuit is the best as a stage racer and a great
climber until we return to a 16 stage Grande Boucle, with the likes of the
former greats, the golden trio of Joane, Faby and Brandli. But these girls
have accomplished their dreams already, and there isn't really anyone great
left that would be a good test for Cooke. Even Judith best days are either
behind her, or closing up on her now. She could retire anytime like Rossner.
Edita is still climbing well, and I am afraid her best days are either here
or behind her as well. All you have left as a test for Cooke are Faby, Edita
and Brandli, and all three of these girls have seen their better days! :-(
Cooke is a good mountain sprinter, I will give her that. She have proven she
can sprint up steep sections and win, no problem. That type of skill reminds
me of Bartali and Luperini in their prime. As for track, she has dabbled
some. Cooke is a good one day classic racer and short stage racer, but we
don't know yet about 14 stages or more. She has never done it!
In Grande Boucle, notice who the final GC after stage 14, but also notice
how much time riders lost after 14 stages. Some as much as 3 hours!!!!!!!
Now of course, it depends on how good her team is too besides if the field
is weak or strong, but if the climbs are good like the first four stages of
2003, then the climbers can excel and sort out who the really great stage
racers are.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2000/aug00/tdfwomen0014.shtml
http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/aug01/tdfwomen0114.shtml
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2002/aug02/tourwomen02/?id=tourwomen0214
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2003/aug03/lgbf03/?id=lgbf0314
B-

 We don't know (if) she is a great climber yet?
Look at her, she is not a pure climber, it would be unnatural for her to 
climb like Fabiana, Brändli, Edita...she should change her 
characteristics (weight loss, etc...) but then she would risk to loose 
other skills that make her the best allrounder out there...
Seeing her climbing like Fabiana would be like seeing Indurain climbing 
like Pantani, or seeing Armstrong climbing like the best climbers in the 
worlds (well...............)


 worlds (well...............)
Luperini won the one day classics, great sprinter, mountain sprinter, great
climber, everything, except the worlds and the games. Arndt was also a very
good climber, stage racer. I don't think Cooke has to be a pure climber to
win. IIRC, Arndt took 3rd ahead of Luperini in the 2003 Tour. She just has
to be able to hang in at times with them. But it's possible she could be a
good climber, I don't think she is too big for that, but my point is more
one of if she can go the distance in a long stage race. In the process, we
can find out just how good a climber she is, along side the great ones.
Big Mig was an amazing climber for his size, and Armstrong couldn't be beat
on any climb if he was obsessed with winning the stage. The problem with
Armstrong, winning prestigous mountain stages was never the top priority
with him, winning the Tour overall was, but I don't think anyone on earth
could best Armstong in a mountain stage when he wanted it, not Pantani, not
anyone.
B-

 great sprinter
No...has she ever beaten a real sprinter?
She was also defeated by Modesta (and Modesta is not a sprinter).
And it's normal that Fabiana is not a good sprinter (and a good TT 
specialist)...like it's normal that Super Nicole is not able to climb 
like a pure climber.


 like a pure climber.
This is not true, make no mistake, Fabiani was a (great sprinter), but she
was not good at the TT, true. But I know Faby better then anyone, I have
seen her in the all races in the 90's when she was in her prime. Make no
mistake, Faby was a (Great) sprinter, but today being past her prime, she is
no longer a great spinter but still a good one. She outsprinted Arndt and
Lungskog in the Checz stage race last year, and I am not going to dig up the
data for you now, but trust me, Faby was a great sprinter!! Sure Modesta,
many girls might of beat Faby today in any number of recent sprints, but in
her prime, (no one) could outsprint Faby, especially in a uphill mountain
sprint! Only Rossner comes to mind on the flats, but Faby would destroy
Rossner in any uphill mountain sprint finish.
B-

 This is not true, make no mistake, Fabiani was a (great sprinter)
I don't know...has she ever win a race after a BUNCH sprint? (Ardnt and 
Ljungskog are not pure sprinter like...Teutenberg, Schleicher, Bronzini, 
Gilmore, etc...


 Gilmore, etc...
Many, many, many times....
Teutenberg, Schleicher, Bronzini are basically riders of the new era, only
Teutenberg has been around in the old days, but she was not the threat that
Rossner was back then. However all the top girls of that era, got dusted on
a regular basis by Luperini in a bunch sprint. The problem often was that
she went solo so many times, that limited the amount of times she did a
bunch sprint, but when she did, she totally blasted away from the pack in
the final meters and left the bunch behind! I have several clips, Luperini
was an awesome sprinter! All the girls, you name it back then, ZS,
Somaribba, Arndt, Edita, Rasa, Longo, of course Van Moorsel was in and out
like a yoyo with her sickness in the mid-90's so I don't think she even went
head to head with Luperini, but LZVM was also a great sprinter. But Luperini
was a (wicked) sprinter on the flats as well as, especially a totally
awesome mountain sprinter!!
This is an example of blasting out far ahead of the pack at the end, but I
have some closer sprints clips.
http://www.procyclingwomen.com/Temp/Luperini-Sprint-1.mpg
B-

 
http://www.procyclingwomen.com/Temp/Luperini-Sprint-1.mpg
Well, this is not a sprint but a great attack attack...
of course you know Fabiana better than me...
I could ask this to a person who knows her very very very well...since 
he "created" one of her old team (Team Sanson).


 he "created" one of her old team (Team Sanson).
Well, I can think of several people in relation to Sanson, but perhaps no
one would know the answer better to this question then the president of her
fanclub, Rolando, since he was there so much of the time at the finish line
of all her races down through the years. He must of seen a million of them
and I am sure he would tell you Fabiana was a wicked fast sprinter, but  for
me personally it's not the close bunch sprint on the flats, but the mountain
top sprint finished uphill to the finish line that impress me the most. She
had so much power, stamina and endurance. Sometimes it seems as if she could
keep sprinting forever. Also of course, her Dad would know, since he too was
often at the finish line!
Here are a few more, but not the bunch sprint..
http://www.procyclingwomen.com/Temp/Luperini-Sprint-2.mpg
http://www.procyclingwomen.com/Temp/Luperini-Sprint-3.mpg
http://www.procyclingwomen.com/Temp/Luperini-Sprint-4.mpg
I have a few misc clips...
http://www.procyclingwomen.com/Temp/3-for-Lupa.mpg
http://www.procyclingwomen.com/Temp/Solo-95.mpg
http://www.procyclingwomen.com/Temp/Octavia.mpg
B-

 top sprint finished uphill to the finish line that impress me the most.
Well, an uphill sprint in such a different thing...
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Out of all the hours of videos of Luperini I have seen many times, which
including most of the best classics and grand tours from the mid 90's until
the present day, last tour I have being in 2003, in which Luperini sprinted
ahead to win several stages including Vaujany which she won six times and
most impressive the sprint to end the Assisi stage, which showed the girls
just behind totally wrecked and slumped over their bikes while Luperini
looked fresh, one thing is for sure.
Luperini was a great mountain sprinter, probably much like the stories I
have read about Bartali, who has the ability to sprint away from other
riders on very steep climbs and do it repeatedly at will.  While I have seen
her take the bunch sprint many times from the best women of that time, her
ability to bolt from the pack just before the finish line was incredibly
remarkable. It was like she had some rocket fuel for the end sprint! It
didn't really matter if it was bunch sprint or a last minute attack, or a
head to head finish sprint, she won easily always. She just toyed with her
rivals much like Andre the Giant used to wrestle in the ring. She was
sooooooo much better then everyone else!
But really going solo was something that she did so many times. That to me
was a real measure of her greatness. She went solo more times then you can
possibly imagine, and it really was just a one women show! In this clip
Luperini went solo and when finished, you notice she has enough time to get
on the podium and do an interview before the pack come across!!
This is incredible!!
http://www.procyclingwomen.com/Temp/Interview-Solo.mpg.mpg
B-
ps-If she had any weakness, it was flat TT, but she did well on uphill TT!
The worlds was never her cup of tea. In 95, she was the favorite in Columbia
for the worlds, but she failed on a course favored for her. I had asked Dede
Barry about this, but I doubt she can remember much. I talked to Dede once
about Longo and Luperini, but she retired from racing. Nevertheless, the
worlds is usually very fast on a flat course that is not only favored to the
sprinters, but the overall pace is usually high, a war of attrition. In 1999
Worlds which I have, Luperini is seen falling off the back. I asked her if
she was ill that day, and she hasn't been in hardly any of the worlds since
then. In an interview she basically said that the worlds is not something
she was cut out for. However this year, the worlds was on her calendar,
since it seems the course might favor the climbers, but I don't know for
sure, I haven't seen a statistical profile of this year's course.