Newsgroup: it.hobby.armi
Titolo: condition 2

Come si fa a mettere una 1911 80's in condition 2 in tutta sicurezza ????
Grazie 
Fra

a dimenticavo...evitando che il cane vada in mezza monta 

 a dimenticavo...evitando che il cane vada in mezza monta
Non si fa in quanto non è progettata per tale operazione. Come si fa a
portare una Beretta 98 in condition one? Non si può.
Sottolineo che tutti gli esperti americani sconsigliano di tenere una
1911 con colpo in canna e cane disarmato perchè è pericoloso. Il cane
si potrebbe armare senza che voi ve ne accorgiate e vi ritrovereste
con un'arma a cane armato e senza sicura. Inoltre in condizioni di
necessità di dover utilizzare l'arma dover armare il cane non è più
così ovvio e semplice. Io, parere personale, preferirei dover
scarellare anche se necessita due mani.
Ma a dir il vero è un non problema. Le 1911 si portano in condition
one. Con la giusta fondina.
ciao!

 one. Con la giusta fondina.
Scusate che vuol dire condition 1 e 2?

 ha scritto nel messaggio
Scusate che vuol dire condition 1 e 2?
condition one: cane armato, colpo in canna e sicura inserita...
condition two: colpo in canna e cane abbattuto (cosa che si fa manualmente e 
prima o poi...... ;-)))
ciao
B. 

 ha scritto nel messaggio
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dimenticavo... il tutto vale per singole azioni tipo colt 1911.....
ciao
B. 

 B.
beh non solo per le 1911- In generale condizione due (non vedo perchè
non parlare in italiano, prende anche me la mania di parlare
americanese) è il modo in cui si può portare la beretta98. Colpo in
canna e cane abbattuto. Non importa che tipo di arma sia per
determinare la "condizione" ma lo stato dell'arma. Ovvio che una
beretta 98 non può essere portata in condizione uno poichè inserendo
la sicura si abbatte il cane. So che condizione zero s'intende arma
senza colpo in camera e cane abbattuto ma non so se qualcuno ha
sentito la necessità di determinare una condizione tre e via così.
Mica le so tutte!

 B.
beh non solo per le 1911- .... cut
:-)) vero...
ma la condizione uno puoi solo con le azioni "tipo" 1911... ho scritto "il 
tutto" in quanto quando si parla di condizione uno (e quelle a seguire poi) 
si presuppone ci si stia riferendo ad una colt 1911 o clone di essa... che 
poi le varie condizioni possono essere estese anche ad altre armi è chiaro.. 
ma non tutte assieme come puoi con la 1911
ciao
B. 

A chi si chiedeva se esistono condizioni oltre la 2...
Pare che Cooper ci avesse pensato...
E' americanese, però io lo digerisco benino. Lo traduco solo a richiesta, 
visto che è un po' lunghettino...
The legendary guru of the combat 1911, Jeff Cooper, came up with the 
"Condition" system to define the state of readiness of the 1911-pattern 
pistol. The are:
Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is 
off.
Condition 1 - Also known as "cocked and locked," means a round is in the 
chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of 
the frame is applied.
Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.
Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged 
magazine in the gun.
Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the 
gun.
The mode of readiness preferred by the experts is Condition One. Generally 
speaking, Condition One offers the best balance of readiness and safety. Its 
biggest drawback is that it looks scary to people who don't understand the 
operation and safety features of the pistol.
Condition Two is problematic for several reasons, and is the source of more 
negligent discharges than the other conditions. When you rack the slide to 
chamber a round in the 1911, the hammer is cocked and the manual safety is 
off. There is no way to avoid this with the 1911 design. In order to lower 
the hammer, the trigger must be pulled and the hammer lowered slowly with 
the thumb onto the firing pin, the end of which is only a few millimeters 
away from the primer of a live round. Should the thumb slip, the hammer 
would drop and fire the gun. Not only would a round be launched in 
circumstances which would be at best embarrassing and possibly tragic, but 
also the thumb would be behind the slide as it cycled, resulting in serious 
injury to the hand. A second problem with this condition is that the true 
1911A1 does not have a firing pin block and an impact on the hammer which is 
resting on the firing pin could conceivably cause the gun to go off, 
although actual instances of this are virtually nonexistent. Finally, in 
order to fire the gun, the hammer must be manually cocked, again with the 
thumb. In an emergency situation, this adds another opportunity for 
something to go wrong and slows the acquisition of the sight picture.
Condition Three adds a degree of "insurance" against an accidental discharge 
since there is no round in the chamber. To bring the gun into action from 
the holster, the pistol must be drawn and the slide racked as the pistol is 
brought to bear on the target. This draw is usually called "the Israeli 
draw" since it was taught by Israeli security and defense forces. Some of 
the real expert trainers can do an Israeli draw faster than most of us can 
do a simple draw, but for most of us, the Israeli draw adds a degree of 
complexity, an extra step, and an opening for mistakes in the process of 
getting the front sight onto the target.
Using the "half-cock" as a safety
The half-cock notch on the M1911 is really intended as a "fail-safe" and is 
not recommended as a safety. However, it has been used as a mode of carry. 
From Dale Ireland comes this interesting piece of service history from WWII:
When the hammer is pulled back just a few millimeters it "half cocks" and 
pulling the trigger will not fire the gun [on genuine mil-spec G.I. 
pistols]. I imagine this is an unsafe and not a recommended safety position. 
The reason I bring it up however is that it was a commonly used position 
especially by left-handers in WWII. My father carried his 1911 (not A1) to 
Enewitok, Leyte, first wave at Luzon, the battle inside Intramuros, and 
until he was finally shot near Ipo dam. He tells me that he regularly used 
the half cocked safety position especially at night and patrolling because 
bringing the weapon to the full cocked position from the half cocked created 
much less noise and he was left handed so he couldn't use the thumb safety 
effectively. He said using the half cocked position was all about noise 
reduction for lefties while maintaining a small amount of safety that could 
quickly be released.
Again, the half-cock is intended as a fail-safe in the event that the sear 
hooks were to fail, and it is not recommended as a mode of carry. It should 
also be noted that on guns with "Series 80" type hammers, the hammer will 
fall from half-cock when the trigger is pulled. This would include guns from 
Springfield Armory and modern production Colts. But, if you happen to be a 
south paw and find yourself in the jungle with a G.I. M1911A1 and surrounded 
by enemy troops, the half-cock might be an option.
For more detailed discussion of the safety and internal functions of the 
M1911, see "Is Cocked and Locked Dangerous?"
Ciao a tutti! 

 ha scritto nel messaggionews:a1f09842-1ee0-4cfc...@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
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si si è vero ma il sistema (malgrado in europa sia abbastanza
denigrato) è piaciuto tanto che molte armi hanno meccanica che
permette di avere cane armato e sicura inserita.
Perfino la mitica 98 ha una variante con tale specifica.

Perfino la mitica 98 ha una variante con tale specifica.
una la ho io ;-)))
ciao
B.