Newsgroup: it.arti.musica.rock.progressive
Titolo: [Sondaggino] Musica e fortuna


*** Sorvolo su Ringo Starr, fortunato sostituto di Pete Best...
Per quanto riguarda Gilmour, lui stesso molti anni fa aveva
ammesso questa cosa, pronunciando addirittura la parola
"culo" in italiano ad un giornalista di Ciao 2001.
E tuttavia, a mio avviso non di solo culo si tratta...
Gilmour era amico di Barrett quando erano quindicenni,
e quasi insieme avevano imparato a suonare la chitarra.
Si erano frequentati, e ognuno aveva sviluppato delle
sue tecniche, che poi anche l'altro aveva utilizzato.
Nella leggenda e nella fantasia succede che Syd Barrett
avesse inventato tutto o quasi, nella realtà per esempio
la tecnica di utilizzo della camera-echo con la chitarra
è stata invece messa a punto da Gilmour per primo.
Diverso è il discorso per il wha wha o per la distorsione,
utilizzati da Syd Barrett prima di Gilmour e anche
prima di Jimi Hendrix... poi un certo John Kane su
IAMRP sosteneva che Barrett avesse tratto ispirazione
da J.Hendrix tra le sue numerose muse ispiratrici...
forse con un viaggio nel tempo? Barrett
che io sappia utilizzava già nel 1966 sia la distorsione
che lo wha wha, quindi PRIMA di J.Hendrix.
Discorso ancora diverso per il feedback (che io sappia portato
in pubblico per la prima volta dagli Small Faces, e subito
dopo utilizzato anche da Syd Barrett).
La tecnica allo Slide Guitar però è stata sviluppata dallo stesso
David Gilmour, e lo stesso dicasi del caratteristico bending.
Inoltre Gilmour in passato ha ampiamente dimostrato di avere
buon gusto musicale, oltre a buone capacità tecniche. Devo citare
i suoi caratteristici assoli, che si sono parecchio distaccati dai
tipici stilemi degli assoli "a scale" normalmente usati nel rock.
Molto meno veloci di un Alvin Lee ma anche di gran lunga
più espressivi: vedi anche per esempio quello celebre di
"Confortably Numb", che vale quasi la pena dell'acquisto
di "The Wall" da solo... per i miei gusti.
 Quindi, ritengo scorretto sostenere che Gilmour sia nello
olimpo dei superfortunati della musica: certamente ha
avuto molta fortuna, e i suoi conti economici e patrimoniali
credo lo dimostrerebbero ampiamente. Ma io credo che
ai primissimi posti di tale classifica sarebbe più logico
mettere chi ha avuto gran successo non essendo poi
neppure tanto un buon musicista... mi viene in mente
qualche nome ma oggi sono molto diplomatico.
*** NOTA: mi scuso per il crosspost con IAMRP, su
questo argomento che in parte è OT, ma capita che
io abbia citato John Kane, che frequenta soprattutto
IAMRP, e non sarebbe giusto farlo senza dargli almeno
la possibilità di replicare. Magari così anche Stanz e
Martino verranno a sapere quali sono i musicisti dai
quali Syd Barrett avrebbe mutuato le sue tecniche...
almeno secondo il parere dello stesso John Kane.
Che a suo merito, debbo dire, è piuttosto informato
sui musicisti e i gruppi degli anni '60.
Ciao, e scusate ancora il crosspost...
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
/\/\/\/\/\/ High Tide \/\/\/\/\/
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

 sui musicisti e i gruppi degli anni '60.
il debito maggiore (e dichiarato) dell' assemblatore Barrett è verso Keith
Rowe degli AMM. Come influenze fondamentali (sempre dichiarate) Love,
Butterfield Blues Band, Kinks di Sunny Afternoon, Jeff Beck di Shapes of
Things,  Heron e Williamson, Fugs.
--
John Kane


*** Va bene... ma continuo a pensare che Syd Barrett non si
possa considerare semplicemente un assemblatore.
Ciao.


 Rowe degli AMM.
Mentre Fripp č debitore di Gustav Holst, Django Reinhardt e dei Moody Blues
:-) Come vedi, tutti sono degli assemblatori allora!
Solo che talvolta gli assemblatori (come nel caso di Fripp, Barrett, Hammill e
qualcun altro) sono cosě geniali da non essere piů "dei cloni di Keith Rowe".
bye stanz

 Things,  Heron e Williamson, Fugs.
John Kane ha giustamente evidenziato le influenze principali ma per i
completisti riposto integralmente un articolo di qualche tempo fa apparso su
IAMRP (purtroppo non ho il tempo di estrarre le parti piů significative,
quindi dovrete sorbirvelo per intero):
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Syd Barrett's Musical Influences
(b.1946) Cambridge, England
Lonnie Donegan to the Beatles' 'Help!" (1954-1965)
Before rock and roll appeared, during 1954-6, one of the
biggest pop smashes of that time was Lonnie Donegan's cover
of American folk/blues singer Leadbelly's 'Rock Island Line'
(Leadbelly's
also wrote 'Where Did You Sleep Last Night?', covered by
Nirvana). Lonnie Donegan's 1954 adaptation sparked the fad
for skiffle, the first teen craze in Britain. Though Barrett
was bit young,
his elder brother formed part of a skiffle band, and Barrett
was exposed to the music.
During 1957-59, rock and roll exploded onto the music scene.
Bill Haley's 1956 'Rock Around the Clock' was the first rock
and roll to hit big, though black R&B artists had been doing
it since the
early 50's with records such as 'Rocket 88'. 'Rock Around
the Clock' arrived in the UK in 1957 with its inclusion in
the film 'Blackboard Jungle', and Britain's teenagers lost
their collective minds upon
hearing this song, causing riots in cinemas. The Teds, the
U.K.'s first notable youth subculture, were particularly
galvanised by early rock and roll and led the riots. They
literally tore the seats out
from the floor and shredded them apart in the cinemas. Can
you imagine how repressed teens lives must have been then?
They were so fired up......kind of beautiful in its own way.
That doesn't even
happen today at GWAR shows!
Buddy Holly's 'That'll Be The Day' (1958) was another
biggie.Barrett and friends use to 'jam' to Buddy Holly songs
in the late 1950s. Chuck Berry and Little Richard were also
Barrett's favourites,
according to Watkinson & Anderson, including 'Richard's
'Tutti Frutti' and Berry's 'Maybellene'.
Bo Diddley's epic single 'Bo Diddley' (1958) and subsequent
album, 'Have Guitar Will Travel' (1959) were key Barrett
influences, and ones which provided much of his basic
inspiration between 1960-66. Diddley's distinctive rhythms
form the bedrock of Barrett's playing, and Diddley's songs
remained in the Pink Floyd's repertoire until late 1966,
when they were still playing Diddley's 'I Can Tell' onstage
at the All Saint's Hall.
Surf rockers the Ventures masterful instrumental single,
'Walk, Don't Run' (1960) was an influence too. Not only
'Lucifer Sam's surf inspired intro but 'Matilda Mother' also
adapts the central riff of
that guitarist's favourite. The Ventures were influential
for the heavy echo on their guitars as well.
Jimmy Smith's 'Back at the Chicken Shack' (1960): Storm
Thorgerson (Pink Floyd album cover designer and childhood
friend of the band) stated that jazz/R&B organist Jimmy
Smith was a favourite among their group of friends, Barrett
included, during the early 1960s. They used to skip school
together to go to Storm's house, smoke ciggies and listen to
records like this one.
Barrett and Gilmour endlessly practiced Shadows
instrumentals, such as 'Apache' (single 1960). They both owe
a debt to Hank Marvin's guitar style, particularly his use
of echo and the fluidity of his tone. Traces of Marvin's
style can be found in Barrett songs such as 'Swan Lee', as
well on his final 1974 recording session, where he reverted
to basic Marvin-style riffs.
Blues/R&B guitarist and singer Jimmy Reed's 'Bright Lights,
Big City', released as a single in 1961 was an absolute
favourite with every band in Cambridge in the early sixties.
Barrett performed this
song while with Geoff Mott and the Mottoes, his first proper
band.
Booker T. and the MG's 'Green Onions' (single 1962). Barrett
cited the MG's guitarist Steve Cropper as an early
influence, and Cropper's distinctive, clean riffs and leads
inform Barrett's playing throughout his career. Barrett also
probably picked up his Telecaster in imitation of Steve
Cropper. Incidentally, Cropper plays these days with the new
Blues Brothers touring band, as well as a star turn in the
old one, and he appeared in the film. Check this guy out,
he's a guitar genius.
Barrett was the first to catch onto the Beatles 'Love Me Do'
(single 1962) among his friends in Cambridge. John Lennon
was Barrett's favourite Beatle, according to Watkinson &
Anderson.
Bob Dylan 'Bob Dylan' (1962): Barrett and Gilmour both
attended Dylan's first major show in Britain, held at the
Albert Hall in London. Dylan provided a songwriting model,
with his extended and alternately hyper-realistic and
surrealistic narratives.
Classical works by Leos Janacek, Olivier Messiaen and Bela
Bartok, 'Das Rheingold' by Wagner, and others were among the
various LP's that Peter Whitehead played when Barrett and
friends were practicing in the next room at Cambridge
scientist Peter Mitchells' house during 1962. Syd used to
come over and jam with the son of the family, and also cos
he was infatuated with Julia, the Micthell's cute daughter.
He did stop in also to check out Whitehead's painting and
chat about
music.
Certain passages in 'Interstellar Overdrive' and other
extended instrumentals would suggest Barrett had more than
cursory knowledge of classical music, particularly of Wagner
and his epic
flourishes and sturm und drang. Barrett's father performed
in a local symphony and was a keen classical music
enthusiast, implying there were many classical albums at
hand at 183 Hills Road.
Davy Graham 'The Thamesiders and Davy Graham'
EP(1963)contains 'She Moves Through the Fair', a traditional
Irish song which Graham played with Indian overtones, vastly
influential on acoustic guitarists of the era. Graham's
'Folk, Blues and Beyond' (1964) was a stunning blend of
folk, jazz, blues, Moroccan traditional music and Indian
ragas. (Jimmy Page cited Graham as an important influence as
well; Led Zeppellin's 'White Summer' was a mutated cover of
'She Moves
Through the Fair'. Its a shame that Graham is almost totally
forgotten, an amazing musician. Luckily his old LP's are
being (finally) re-released on CD this summer. FIND THEM!!!!
;)
The Kinks 'You Really Got Me' and 'All Day and All of the
Night' (both 1964) notable for their advanced use of
distortion and Dave Davies crunching fuzz box riffs. It's
hard nowadays to gauge the impact these singles had when
they came out. They were so brutal and anarchic; they still
sound totally punk. It's no coincidence that the Sex Pistols
used to play 'All Day and All of the Night' in their early
days.
The Beatles 'I Feel Fine' (1964) was notable for its use of
feedback in the intro, indicative of the growing
experimentalism among British guitarists in the mid-1960s.
Barrett always had a keen ear for feedback, distortion and
noise, and helped pioneer its use in rock music. The early
Floyd was about as extreme as underground music got in
1966......comparable to today's grindcore or the avant
terrorism of the Boredoms.
During 1964-5, Barrett was exposed to several jazz albums at
Mike Leonard's Highgate house, where there is a copy in
Leonard's collection of jazz artist Yusef Lateef's 'Eastern
Sounds' (1961).
Lateef's jazz and world music blend perhaps influenced
Barrett's in his later use of Eastern modal tonalities.
There also were several John Coltrane albums, including
'Coltrane' (1962). Barrett named the cat in Leonard's
Highgate house 'Tunji', after a track that appears on that
Coltrane album. Coltrane's groundbreaking use of stacked
chords and 'sheets of sound' soloing was a pronounced
Barrett inspiration, especially as he began to experiment
more during 1966.
The Who's 'Anyway, Anyhow, Anywhere' (single 21 May 1965)was
perhaps one of Syd Barrett's all-time most important
influences, with its heavily distorted glissando effects and
Morse-code blips in its central 'freak-out' section. I sat
and tried to listen to it as Barrett must have heard it and
you can really hear where it paved the way for 'Astronomy
Domine' and 'Interstellar Overdrive.' Highly, highly
recommended.
Barrett and Gilmour busked around the South of France
playing songs from the 'Help!' (1965) album, which came out
shortly before they went on their summer holidays. That they
crammed to learn the songs indicates the force of the impact
it had on them. 'Help!', the title track was an overtly
personal song, unlike anything in pop music up to that time,
save for Dylan's more abstract first person soliliquies.
Barrett responded to it at once.
Byrds
'5D (Fifth Dimension)' (February 1966)
*'Eight Miles High' was a pivotal Barrett influence, and its
fade-out riff appears in the Pink Floyd's 'Candy and a
Currant Bun'. 'I Come and Stand at Every Door' probably laid
some of the framework for the Pink Floyd's 'Flaming'.
The Incredible String Band
'The Incredible String Band' (June 1966)
*Influential for its mix of traditional folk and odd
instrumentation, as well as Heron and WIllaimson's vocal
stylings.
The Butterfield Blues Band
'East/West' (1966)
*Critical in Barrett's development of the Pink Floyd's
extended improvisations was 'East/West', a 13 minute
jazz/blues meld based on Indian raga scales. In a December
1967 BBC session, Barrett
clearly plays a Bloomfield lick on 'Pow. R Toc. H'
Rolling Stones
'Aftermath' (1966)
*A Barrett favourite, this album's faux-Elizabethan 'Lady
Jane' and 11-minute blues jam 'Goin' Home' paved the way for
'Piper at the Gates of Dawn's similar use of 'Interstellar
Overdrive' and structured short songs.
Yardbirds
'Shapes of Things' (single March 1966)
*Jeff Beck's masterful solo, a blend of flamenco, blues,
noise and raga, was arguably Britain's first overtly
psychedelic song.
Bob Dylan
'Blonde on Blonde' (May 1966)
The Fugs
'The Fugs' (1966)
*Barrett bought a copy of this album at Miles' Indica
bookstore in 1966, and later cited its influence in
interviews.
Love
'Love' (1966)
*Peter Jenner humming Barrett the central riff of Love's
cover of Burt Bacharach's 'Little Red Book' led to Barrett's
proto-metal riff in 'Interstellar Overdrive'. Arthur Lee's
blend of musical moods was also influential.
The Kinks
'Sunny Afternoon' (single June 1966)
*Influential on Barrett's more uptempo and playful songs,
such as 'The Gnome' and 'Here I Go'.
Frank Zappa & The Mother of Invention
'Freak Out!' (July 1966)
*Barrett cited this album in an interview, stating that he
had 'taken quite a lot' from this band as well as the Byrds
and Fugs.
The Beatles
'Revolver' (1966)
Donovan
'Sunshine Superman' (single September 1966)
Cream
'I Feel Free' (single, December 1966)
*Notable for the duality of its hard rhythm and poetic
lyric.
Luigi Nono (Per Bastiana Tai-Yang Cheng)
Karlheinz Stockhausen (Hymnen)
*Barrett may have been exposed to these modern composers
during 1966. The more intellectually oriented of the
Underground were exposed to works such as these at the
Indica Bookstore and in
the pages of IT.
AMM
AMMusic (1967)
*Recorded in June 1966, AMM's Keith Rowe was arguably
Barrett's most important influence of all, opening the door
for his experiments and using developing techniques which
Barrett adapted.
The Rolling Stones
'Between the Buttons' (1967)
*Peter Jenner earmaked this album as a strong Barrett
influence. Certainly, 'Paint It, Black' influenced Barrett's
use of gloomy minor chords and menacing vocals. And may have
set a precedent for the verses of 'See Emily Play.'
'Strawberry Fields Forever'
(single 17 February 1967)
*'Strawberry Fields Forever' marked the way for Barrett in
its revolutionary use of poetic images and superb
psychedelic arrangement. It was released just ten days
before the sessions for 'Arnold Layne', which bears its
influence.
The Kinks
'Waterloo Sunset' (single May 1967)
The Incredible String Band
'The 5000 Spirits Or The Layers Of The Onion' (July 1967)
Jimi Hendrix Experience
'Are You Experienced?' (1967)
*Barrett had already been performing 'Interstellar
Overdrive' for several months prior to Hendrix's arrival in
September 1966. It is probable that Barrett and Hendrix
influenced each other equally.
Hendrix caught the Pink Floyd live at UFO in December 1966
and toured extensively with them in late 1967.
Beatles
'Seargent Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band' (1967)
Crazy World of Arthur Brown
'Fire' (single)
*Arthur Brown's sense of showmanship, ominous vocals and his
band's rhythmic intensity were likely Pink Floyd influences.
Soft Machine
'Soft Machine' (1967)
*Contemporaries (and competitors) of the Pink Floyd, the
Soft Machine's jazz/rock improvisations were as influential
to Barrett as his work was to them, particularly to Daevid
Allen and Kevin
Ayers, who both adapted Barrett's glissando technique.
1968-71
Taj Mahal
Ma Rainey
Family
Slade
*In interviews during 1970-1, Barrett stated he had been
listening to albums by these artists, though their influence
on his post-Floyd output seems neglible, save for perhaps
Taj Mahal and Ma Rainey, whose folk blues stylings could
have prompted Barrett to delve into the blues with songs
like 'Long Gone' and the throwaway 'Maisie'
(c) Julian Palacios & Boxtree/MacMillan
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/2724/infl3.html
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ciao
martino
NP.: Pavlov's Dog : Pampered Menial