Newsgroup: it.comp.hardware.cpu
Titolo: K6 vs. K6-2 vx P233 MMX

I want to upgrade my CPU. I'm currently using an iP166 (not MMX) on an ABIT
TX5 V1.2 mobo with 64 MB SDRAM, clocked at 2*83 MHz. I don't want to change
my mobo, so must stick with socket 7. My main interests include
manipulating large .wav files, some image editing, and playing Quake2. Note
that I have a Voodoo1 3dfx card for Quake2.I think my options are either
iP233, K6-300, or K6-2-266. I will probably overclock as far as possible.I
realise that, due to lack of a Voodoo2 card, I cannot use the 3Dnow! Q2
drivers, so suspect that the K6-2 would not give me an advantage over the K6
in this respect, but I'm not sure if there are other differences between K6
and K6-2 that could still be an advantage. On the other hand, would the
superior FPU unit in the Intel 233MMX mean that this is a better bet?Any
advice would be appreciated.Please email to
st...@contraspamdotgunn0.demon.co.uk
 (remove contraspamdot).Thanks in
advance,Steve Gunn.
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advance,Steve Gunn.



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Frankly, you should invest in a 3D card before doing anything else.
You'll be able to easily double the framerate you're getting now if
you buy a Voodoo2 - moreover, you'll be able to play at 800x600 which
looks ravishing, and Q2 and other games look MUCH better in hardware
mode. You won't see anywhere near that much of an improvement in
software mode upgrading to a P-233 MMX or even jumping up to a
Pentium2.
I've played Q2 seriously online on a P-166 with a Voodoo2,  then a
P-200 before upgrading to a P2-300. Gameplay is fabulously smooth at
800x600 on a P-166 with a V2. Depending on your mobo, a P-166 should
clock at around 30 fps running a timedemo on Demo1 with the sound off.
With tweaking (disabling Dynamic lighting) I got it up to 35. This is
more than enough for serious netplay.
Here's some framerate comparisons on a variety of systems I've tested:
http://voodooextreme.com/flypenguin/compare2.htm
A Voodoo1 will give you about the same performance, but gameplay will
be laggier due to texture thrashing. I really recommend the V2 and
some V2 cards, with rebates, are selling in the neighborhood of $170.
If you have the cash to spend after buying a 3D card, then upgrading
the processor also wouldn't hurt. As you can see from my tests, a
P-233MMX can hit 47 fps or better running on a Voodoo2 and 70 fps with
a K6-2 300 with 3DNow! 3dfx drivers. 
Here's some other links in my FAQ you may be interested in:
Buying the right 3D card:
http://voodooextreme.com/flypenguin/glfaq1.htm#3
K6 Processor:
http://voodooextreme.com/flypenguin/glfaq1.htm#31
The Flying Penguin :-)
FLYING PENGUIN'S GLQUAKE / QUAKE 2 3D FAQ:
http://www.voodooextreme.com/flypenguin/
"Internet Explorer is a Windows bug... Windows 95 is a DOS virus... Quake 2 is an excellent beta release ..."

...


Pentium2.
errr, he said he HAD a 3d card, heh


I feel the same thing.  My K6-300 is not faster than my Cyrix 233 with
64 megs of RAM and TX motherboard...the benchmarks are better, but the
acutal performance in real-world situations is not.

Would a V2 help that much @ 233Mhz?  It certainly won't at 166.  At least
that seems to be the overwhelming opinion at the 3dfx NG.  It's not my
opinion (I don't have one - just FYI).


I wouldn't advise spending anymore $$ on socket 7 technology.  Wait until
you can get a slot 1 board and a P2 or Celeron...
--
PIT
"If it aint broke, don't break it"
Visit the Demo Warehaus...
http://www.cityusa.net/pit



???
Strange....
My Framerate increased 2 fps
(w/o 3DNow-drivers or 3DNow-Quake2-engine) 
when I went from a PMMX@225 to a K6-2 @4x75MHz...
My overall performance increased significantly since anything feels
smoother(i.e. Corel with large bitmaps) and if you can feel it  it is
significant... ;-)
...and all benchmarks indicate at least 30-70% (depends on the tested
app) better performance for integer operations.
I only changed the CPU and nothing else and it worked for me... :-)
If you only use office apps like Word and Netscape you won't notice
any big difference since these apps are already fast enough on a P166.
...and you won't notice a difference in games with the voodoo1.
What mobo do you use ?
BTW. I use a voodoo1@55Mhz and 96MB EDO RAM on a AsusT2P4.
MfG.: Michael L.


The P233MMX FPU isn't faster than the K6-2s @300Mhz.
...and the K6-2 is by far superior for integer apps.
OTOH the PMMX oc'd to 266 or 291 should be faster for FPU than a K6-2
@300 though.
But you propably could run a K6-2 300 @4.5x75Mhz (338)...
The advantages of the K6-2 300 over the K6 300 are...:
K6-2 is guaranteed to run @100Mhz FSB
K6-2s revised core is 2-5% faster (ok, this is negligible)
K6-2 has 2 MMX Units (1.5x faster than plain K6)
K6-2 has 3DNow! and this can speed up FPU up to 4x...
...for plain apps(w/o MMX or 3DNow!) the K6 and K6-2 are about equal.
...read this:
http://www.heise.de/ct/english/98/12/028/
http://www.tomshardware.com/k6-2.html
http://www.anandtech.com/reviews/processors/amdk6-2/index.html
http://www.netcologne.de/~nc-muelleul3/bench.htm
http://www.tomshardware.com/releases/98q3/980805/index.html
MfG.: Michael L.



I'm getting 40 fps at 640x480, with a 233mmx in quake 2.  Your choice!
I get 88 fps in glquake.  Turok is 52.  Forsaken is 70.

...



Sorry to hear this...it worked for me though... :-)
OTOH AMD recommends 3x100Mhz for a K6-2 300 to get optimal
performance.
The last thing you could do is to test if write allocation is enabled
for all your memory (a good BIOS should do this).
I doubt it is not when your BIOS recognizes your K6-2 but to be 100%
certain.
...try this:
ftp://ftp.heise.de/pub/ct/pcconfig/setk6.zip

MfG.: Michael L.

    Unfortunately you really are not going to see any increase at all
overall with the AMD in your case. I'm running a K6-2 266 overclocked to
336mhz (3*112) with a Voodoo2 and get 70fps Demo1, 65 in Demo2, 49fps in
Massive1 and 32 fps in Crusher. Anyway, the main problem for you will be
the slow bus speed you are using. The AMD is meant to be 100mhz bus
speed. Also, the lack of Voodoo2 will be the next bottleneck. Basically,
you have a killer chip but really are hobbling it up. A Super 7 mobo
will run about $80 and a CL 8mb Voodoo2 will run $179, CL 12mb $199.
    Finally, for desktop performance I got a major jump when I upgraded
from a P200MMX overclocked to 292mhz.
    Oh well, just my $.02,
        PD

...


 >iP233, K6-300, or K6-2-266. I will probably overclock as far as possible.
The new Mendocino Celeron A that'll be released next week should also be
considered.  Apparently, people have gotten the pre-release processor to
overclock to 464Mhz.  Best of all, it won't need some special driver or 3d
engine support to run Quake 2 fast.  Won't need to ever say "Awww...  I guess
it's just not supported."
And it'll cost around $160.
Good luck and check it out:
http://freespace.virgin.net/andy.drake/bx6page.htm


 you can get a slot 1 board and a P2 or Celeron...
Why?, Especially if he doesn't have to change the board, it's only ~130$ for
chip. Even if he buy a motherboard it is much cheaper too, and there are many
AT style boards for Super7, so no need to change case, etc. Also, if he wants
to do large .wav editing he should be careful with Celery, in such memory
intensive operations it might be a dog (even overclocked). Also Celeron 266
will be killed by iNTEL soon (and multiplier locked Celeron 300 isn't as
overclockable any more) And 100 MHz Slot1 will be dead in the same time than
Super7, but they both have some future. The fastest thing for 100MHz Slot1
would be Katmai 500, and for Super7 it'll be K6-3 450 (witch 256 Kb of full
core speed L2 cache it'll be much faster than PII 450). Katmai would be
killer in 3D games, but only those implementing KNI, and it certainly will be
hell expensive.
--
                       Sebastian Kaliszewski
 
seb...@melkor.mimuw.edu.pl


 advance,Steve Gunn.
When I was filtering large .wav with CoolEdit 1.5x on iP166 (non MMX) and
then on K6-2 266 (4x66) the difference was about 2-3 times (over 20 min to
less than 10 min), and it was very FPU intensive operation (FFT). On the
other way, overclocked iP233MMX @290 MHz and K6-2 266 @333 MHz are both
pushing V1 to the max, so difference would be neglible. The K6-2 is a bit
faster in FPU (a few %, probably faster division and square root operation
and better sheduling) than plain K6.





;-)
hehe - perhaps ;)
remove "nospam." from email for personal response

    I'm running FIC 503+ (overclocked 336) with dual Voodoo2 SLI without
prob, just have to use AGP for video. (move the fan over a little on the
AMD CPU, the thing doesn't get hot at all anyway. Probably could go
without a fan on the CPU, unbelievable for the amount it is overclocked.
    PD

On Mon, 17 Aug 1998 21:27:28 GMT, 
fbo...@my-dejanews.com
 wrote:
This newsgroup is :  it.comp.hardware.cpu.
This is an italian newsgroup. Please post your message
in italian language or use another newsgroup.
Thanks. Ciao max

,

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----


    Easy to get the second Voodoo2 full size PCI in, just move the
heatsink over about 1/4". It has no effect on CPU as the darn thing
doesn't even get warm (3*112), SLI works great. I did have to get an AGP
video card though as my sound card is PCI as well. I really wish they
had a Super 7 with 4PCI and 2 ISA though.
    PD

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