Newsgroup: it.cultura.religioni
Titolo: Il fanatismo religioso


Saluti Cad Ali'
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http://www.hyperlinker.com/spg/
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http://www.hyperlinker.com/spg/pppop.htm
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 >
Peace,
While I criticise the Taliban frequently in a number of forums, and cannot
support their actions, I have some sympathy for third-world governments who
face the problem of 'tainted' aid.
There are many places in the world which are economically impoverished,
affected by famine etc, and are therefore dependent on foreign aid from
richer countries to feed their people. I believe that those who are richer
should help those who are needy, not as a favour for which we should expect
something in return, but as no-strings-attached charity. The moral argument
is particularly compelling in the many cases where the wealth of those
richer countries was primarily established during a period of
slavery/colonialism at the expense of those countries who remain poorer.
Now the question is, does providing food and basic necessities, give you the
right to attempt to influence the poorest and least educated in the society
on an ideological level? I cannot comment on the particular situation in
Afghanistan, but from personal experience, I know that missionary groups
often operate covertly in developing countries, and seem to have few moral
scruples about saying they are there for one purpose when their true purpose
is something else entirely. For instance, taking employment to teach
English, when the whole intention is to prolestise in the classroom. Another
example, using translations of the bible which obscure key Christian
concepts so that they do not seem so outrageous to the people they are
trying to convert (such as referring to Jesus as 'rasul' - messenger of
God - which he is to Muslims, but certainly, Christians would seldom if ever
use this term). Sometimes the deception begins at the collection level, for
instance, how many non-religious Australian would take part (or allow their
children to take part) in the 40 hour famine if they knew their money would
be used to propogate Christianity among the children of non-Christians (as
it certainly is - see
http://www.worldvision.org/worldvision/webfaq.nsf/web+views/faqs
)
Now, I fully support freedom to share ideas about your beliefs and, provided
this is a two way process. However, in my experience, most Christian
missionaries are carefully screened to ensure they are anything but
open-minded, and only learn just enough about the belief-system they will be
working in to undermine it. In most cases, they are also quite ignorant of
any Christian belief or interpretation other than the narrow one they are
schooled in. This generally doesn't matter, as the people they target are
usually uneducated, with a simplistic understanding of their own faith. So
there is no meaningful sharing of ideas whatsoever - if you display too much
prior knowledge of Christianity and are intellectually capable of
challenging them, they will avoid you and move on to someone else.
Furthermore, the missionaries/aid workers rely on a power differential
between you and them. They are the ones who are helping you, you need their
help, therefore you should be grateful. It's the 'foot in the door'
technique, otherwise used by encyclopedia salespersons. If you have little
knowledge of the Western world you may even be deceived into associating
Western progress and wealth as being related to Christianity, and conclude
that Christians are more successful and worthy of emulation. If you are
unworldy and have a poor understanding of your own religion, you may see
some validity in the half-truths the missionaries tell you.  Alternatively,
you may have little sincerity in your own beliefs and be motivated to
associate yourself with the most high-status group on the world stage from
your point of view.
So the question is, should other countries, who by reasons of poverty or
famine, find themselves needing assistance from wealthy countries, be
compelled to accept such underhand attempts to subvert the weakest in their
society? As an educated person, I can (and frequently do) read the bible,
talk with missionaries and have my faith in my own religion strengthened. As
the Qur'an says, "truth stands distinct from error."
Sadly, for those who are ignorant of their own faith, bribery and deception
may mislead people who are allowed to be misled. Frankly, if that's what it
takes to get people to accept my religion, then I'd sooner not bother. I
don't agree with the Taliban's approach, and in my view it contradicts a
long tradition of centuries past in Muslim lands where Christians, Jews and
Muslims have been able to freely discuss their points of view, but I can't
stand by and pretend that missionary prolestysation in the 'third world' is
benign and merely a matter of freedom of religion. Perhaps if they did not
mix charity with deception, missionaries would not be so reviled in Hindu,
Jewish, Confucian or Muslim circles. I'm all for open and honest dialogue,
but anyone who knows how missionaries operate, even in countries where they
are free to propogate their religion as openly as they like, will understand
why some governments are keen to protect the weakest in their society from
deception.
Yahya 'Abd al 'Alim
www.geocities.com/abd_al_alim
Scusate l'inlese ma ormai Cad Ali'

 Questa roba viene da un NG australiano ( sig- piu' interessante delle
solite
 lagne Italiane )
 Interessante notare come vengano messi sullo stesso piano i Talebani e i
 pazzi missionari che sotto la copertura di missione umanitaria rischiano la
 vita per il loro fanatismo.
 Fanatici pazzi tutti e due quindi, anche se i primi sparano.
<snippy snippy snip snip>
Re: Religious Liberty Prayer List - No. 127 - Wed 08 Aug 2001
Rowland, this stuff is alsmost as bad as the DCK post.
The facts are.
1. The Tabilban are fanatical religious nuts.
2. The misionaries are fanatical religious nuts.
3. They both think God is on their side.
4. They are both wrong
This is another great example of religious fervour at work and an
example to all non-theists as to why religious zeal must be challenged
(peacfully) at every opportunity..
These people need to be protected from each other and we need to protect
ourselves from them.
If it wasn't for the great work of Humanists (who treat all people with
equal value) religious nuts like this would just simply fight it out to
the death. (even us Atheists wouldn't like to see this)
Without secular government  Taliban-type regimes would take us all back
to the middle ages. The only difference between the Taliban and groups
like US southern Baptists and Northern Irish religious fanatics is that
due to Russian intervention a power vacuum was formed and the Taliban
have opportunistically filled it.
Due to some diligent work in our political past, church and state have
been seperated  in most Western democracies. The Taliban have shown us
why this was a great idea.
Dave


 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:yNOc7.3590$Xf5.1...@news.infostrada.it...
Sono sicuro che questo articolo mi sarebbe piaciuto, peccato che non
conosco l'inglese
Ciao Pedro
P:S
 Per favore non dirmi di andare ad impararlo, credo che oramai sia un
pò tardi per me.

 ha scritto nel messaggio

Un peccato, pero' a tradurre tutto il malloppo va via tanto tempo.
Ti ricordi dei bei tempi di " Non e' mai troppo tardi ?" peccato che non
facciano piu' trasmissioni del genere.
Provo a farti un riassunto.
I Talebani anno istituito la pena di morte per chi tenta conversioni e chi
si fa convertire ( Gennaio ).
E' altresi' illegale per uno straniero recarsi a casa di un Afghano.
Dei volontari di una organizzazione umanitaria Cristiana Americana sono
sorpresi a casa di un Afghano con testi Cristiani tradotti in Afghano (
Agosto ).
24 arresti nell'organizzazione, si rischia la forca, di ieri otto volontari
stranieri  vengono espulsi.
Restano in pericolo di vita 64 locali, collaboratori, persone contattate
dall'organizzazione, e 65 bambini sospettati di aver avuto lezioni di
Cristianesimo ed ora mandati in un campo di riabilitazione all'Islam.
Interessante la reazione del NG Australiano che oltre a sottolineare come il
Medio Evo puo' tornare tra noi e a far paralleli tra i secoli bui delle
guerre di religione e l'attuale Afghanistan, fa notare che i volontari
missionari siano non meno fanatici e disennati dei Talebani.
Adesso grazie al loro attivismo molte persone sono in pericolo di vita,
mentre loro se ne sono tornati a casa protetti dalle loro ambasciate.
Un mussulmano fa una critica molto intelligente alle organizzazioni
umanitarie che nella maggioranza dei casi nascondono attivisti Cristiani e
agenti segreti vari.
Fa notare come con una mano si dia la pagnotta e con l'altra si opera
propaganda, assimilazione culturale, conversione. Pagnotte in cambio di
anime, normalmente su donne e bambini i piu' indifesi culturalmente,
globalizzazione culturale sfruttando le disgrazie e la fame.
L'ultimo intervento merita completa traduzione.
I fatti sono
1. I Talebani sono dei fanatici religiosi fuori di testa
2. I missionari sono dei fanatici religiosi fuori di testa
3. Tutti e due pensano che Dio sia dalla loro parte
4. Tutti e due sbagliano
Questo e' un'altro grande esempio di fervore religioso all'opera, e un
esempio a tutti i non inquadrati del perche' bisogna combattere (
pacificamente ) lo zelo religioso ad ogni occasione.
Queste persone abbisognano di protezione l'una dall'altra e noi dobbiamo
proteggerci da loro.
Se non era per il gran lavoro degli umanisti ( che trattano tutti con eguale
valore ) religiosi fuori di testa come questi si combattrebbero tra loro
fino alla morte ( neanche gli atei vorrebero vedere questo ).
Senza governi secolari regimi tipo Talebani ci porterebbero indietro al
medio evo.
L'unica differenza tra i Talebani e gruppi come i battisti del sud degli USA
o i fanatici dell'Irlanda del Nord e' che l'intervento dei Russi a creato un
vuoto di potere che i Talebani hanno opportunisticamente riempito.
Grazie a un diligente lavoro nel nostro passato politico, chiesa e stato
sono stati separati in quasi tutti i paesi Occidentali.
I Talebani ci mostrano perche' questa sia stata una grande idea.
Dave
Ti saluto Cad Ali'