Newsgroup: it.cultura.cattolica
Titolo: Confronti liturgici [lunghetto] (Was: Re: Seconda questione...)

Esiste una dottrina cattolica e una protestante, in molti punti
incompatibili.
[cut]
Io non sono mai riuscito ad inquadrare bene certe differenze liturgiche.
Visto che molti dei partecipanti ad ICC conoscono la dottrina e la liturgia
molto meglio di me mi sono permesso di copiare (W gli scanner :-)) un pezzo
del messale della chiesa protestante canadese; mi piacerebbe che qualcuno,
pratico sia di lingua inglese che di liturgia cattolica, mi aiutasse a
capire le
differenze.
L'unica differenza significativa mi pare sia che nel messale protestante
manca la parte in cui si fa memoria dei defunti, parte che è stata
"censurata" durante il periodo della lotta alle indulgenze.
Però ce ne sono altre minori, di cui non so valutare l'importanza; per
esempio quando il sacerdote dice "il Signore sia con voi" i fedeli
rispondono "ed anche con te" invece che "e con il tuo spirito" ed al momento
della consacrazione del vino il sacerdote dice "versato per voi e per molti"
invece che "versato per voi e per tutti".
Nota generale ed introduttiva: il sacerdote si gira verso i fedeli quando li
ammaestra, mentre volge loro le spalle quando esercita il ministero
sacerdotale; l'altare in Canada è girato "spalle al popolo", come presso i
latini prima del Vaticano II.
--------
The People remain standing. The Celebrant, whether bishop or priest, faces
them and sings or says
[nota: melodia gregoriana o lettura semplice]
Celebrant The Lord be with you.
People  And also with you.
Celebrant Lift up your hearts.
People  We lift them to the Lord.
Celebrant Let us give thanks to the Lord our God.
People  It is right to give him thanks and praise.
Then, facing the Holy Table, the Celebrant proceeds
[nota: a questo punto inizia l'esecizio del ministero sacerdotale]
It is truly right to glorify you, Father, and to give you thanks; for you
alone are God, living and true, dwelling in light inaccessible from before
time and for ever.
Fountain of life and source of all goodness, you made all things and fill
them with your blessing; you created them to rejoice in the splendour of
your radiance.
Countless throngs of angels stand before you to serve you night and day;
and, beholding the glory of your presence, they offer you unceasing praise.
Joining with them, and giving voice to every creature under heaven, we
acclaim you, and glorify your Name, as we sing (or say),
Celebrant and People
Holy, Holy, Holy Lord, God of power and might,
heaven and earth are full of your glory.
Hosanna in the highest.
Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.
Hosanna in the highest.
The people stand or kneel.
Then the Celebrant continues
We acclaim you, holy Lord, glorious in power. Your mighty  works reveal your
wisdom and love. You formed us in your own image, giving the whole world
into our care, so that, in  obedience to you, our Creator, we might rule and
serve all  your creatures. When our disobedience took us far from you,  you
did not abandon us to the power of death. In your mercy you came to our
help, so that in seeking you we might find you. Again and again you called
us into covenant with you, and through the prophets you taught us to hope
for salvation.
Father, you loved the world so much that in the fullness of  time you sent
your only Son to be our Savior. Incarnate by the Holy Spirit, born of the
Virgin Mary, he lived as one of  us, yet without sin. To the poor he
proclaimed the good news of salvation; to prisoners, freedom; to the
sorrowful, joy. To  fulfill your purpose he gave himself up to death; and,
rising  from the grave, destroyed death, and made the whole creation new.
And, that we might live no longer for ourselves, but for him who died and
rose for us, he sent the Holy Spirit, his own first gift for those who
believe, to complete his work in the world, and to bring to fulfillment the
sanctification of all.
At the following words concerning the bread, the Celebrant is to hold it, or
lay a hand upon it, and at the words concerning the cup, to hold or place a
hand upon the cup and any other vessel containing wine to be consecrated.
When the hour had come for him to be glorified by you, his heavenly Father,
having loved his own who were in the  world, he loved them to the end; at
supper with them he took  bread, and when he had given thanks to you, he
broke it, and  gave it to his disciples, and said, "Take, eat: This is my
Body,  which is given for you. Do this for the remembrance of me."
After supper he took the cup of wine; and when he had given  thanks, he gave
it to them, and said, "Drink this, all of you:  This is my Blood of the new
Covenant, which is shed for you and for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Whenever you drink  it, do this for the remembrance of me."
Father, we now celebrate this memorial of our redemption.
Recalling Christ's death and his descent among the dead,  proclaiming his
resurrection and ascension to your right  hand, awaiting his coming in
glory; and offering to you, from the gifts you have given us, this bread and
this cup, we praise you and we bless you.
Celebrant and People
We praise you, we bless you,
we give thanks to you,
and we pray to you, Lord our God.
The Celebrant continues
Lord, we pray that in your goodness and mercy your Holy Spirit may descend
upon us, and upon these gifts, sanctifying them and showing them to be holy
gifts for your holy people, the bread of life and the cup of salvation, the
Body and Blood of your Son Jesus Christ.
Grant that all who share this bread and cup may become one body and one
spirit, a living sacrifice in Christ, to the praise of your Name.
Remember, Lord, your one holy catholic and apostolic Church, redeemed by the
blood of your Christ. Reveal its unity, guard its faith, and preserve it in
peace.
Remember the Pope ___, our bishop ___ and all who minister in your Church.
[nota: nei paesi a maggioranza cattolica si citano in genere ambo i vescovi,
prima quello anglicano e poi quello latino]
Remember all your people, and those who seek your truth.
Remember ______________. [nota: intenzioni particolari]
Remember all who have died in the peace of Christ, and  those whose faith is
known to you alone; bring them into the place of eternal joy and light.
And grant that we may find our inheritance with the Blessed Virgin Mary,
with patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, with __________ [nota: il
santo patrono della chiesa] and all the saints whe have found favor with you
in ages past. We praise you in union with them and give you glory through
your Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
Through Christ, and with Christ, and in Christ, all honor and glory are
yours, Almighty God and Father, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, for ever
and for ever. AMEN.
The Celebrant, faces the People and sings or says
And now, as our Savior Christ has taught us,  we are bold to sing (or say):
[PADRE NOSTRO, con "tuo è il regno..."]

 latini prima del Vaticano II.
Nessuna differenza degna di nota.
Differente, il concetto di Eucaristia.
ciao

 ciao
Riciao

 Motto della Church of Canada. Cosa vuol dire secondo te?
ma vuoi la traduzione o il commento?
ciao


La traduzione suonerebbe: "Poiche' molti siamo un solo pane, un solo corpo,
certo tutti partecipiamo di un solo pane".
Ciao.


Ciao, e grazie per la pazienza.
Marco

 Ciao.

 Intendevo dire *cosa vuol dire*. Cioè cosa significa come motto.
Forse lo dobbiamo chiedere a San Paolo! ;)
1Corinzi 10,17

 Intendevo dire *cosa vuol dire*. Cioè cosa significa come motto.
Aggiunta fuori tema [OT]:
1Cor 10,17
Poiché c'è un solo pane, noi, pur essendo molti, siamo un corpo solo tutti
infatti partecipiamo dell'unico pane.
Nota della BJ: Con la comunione al corpo di Cristo, i cristiani sono uniti
al Cristo e tra loro. L'Eucaristia realizza l'unità della Chiesa nel Cristo.
Ciao
fra Efisio

 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:95e1bq$gv32a$1...@ID-66126.news.dfncis.de...

Scusami. Fa' conto che, poiche' ho smesso di studiare Latino nel 1981, ho
approfittato dell'occasione per rispolverarlo.
Ciao.