Newsgroup: it.comp.hardware
Titolo: Sun vs Fujitus (Fujitsu SPARC64 and Sun UltraSPARC II)

I am deciding on some sort of a UNIX box to act as an rsa authentication
server.  Our purchasing people like the idea of fujitsu.  Below is a message
they sent, I don't believe much of it.  What does everyone think about Sun
vs Fujitsu.  Personally I would like to go with the Sun box...
-Mike
<----- snip ----->
As we have discussed before the Fujitsu SPARC64 processor is a more powerful
computer processor than the Sun UltraSPARC II. Therefore I have proposed a
300MHz Fujitsu SPARC64 processor based on your stated requirements.
The 300MHz Fujitsu SPARC64 will provide similar performance to the Sun
450MHz UltraSPARC II processor.  This is so you can do an "apples to apples"
comparison.  If the user would like the 400MHz Fujitsu SPARC64 processor
then let me know and I will provide pricing.  However the 400MHz Fujitsu
SPARC64 will be substantially more powerful then the Sun 450MHz.
<----- snip ----->

 vs Fujitsu.  Personally I would like to go with the Sun box...
I'd like to see how the person you're quoting would justify his thinking
that SPARC64 is more powerful than UltraSPARC II.  Maybe it is, but I'd 
demand to see hard evidence.  Maybe they get more commission from selling
Fujitsu stuff?
One approach would be to ask for one of each machine to run your own benchtests
on.  Make sure they're equipped the same, though!
--
Rich Teer
NT tries to do almost everything UNIX does, but fails - miserably.
The use of Windoze cripples the mind; its use should, therefore, be
regarded as a criminal offence.  (With apologies to Edsger W. Dijkstra)
Voice: 
+1 (250) 979-1638
URL: 
http://www.rite-online.net

 wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.00111...@mars.rite-group.com...
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 <----- snip ----->
For reference, the Fujitsu claim is accurate. For example, approx
numbers for SPECint95 and SPECfp95 are around 20/30 for both CPUs
(HAL-III @ 300 MHz vs US-II @ 450 MHz), given _roughly_ comparable
memory systems (HAL has slight bias there). In practice, the two
processors offer similar performance.
This is what hardware guys call the "brainiac" vs "speed-daemon"
tradeoff. Always be suspicions of comparisons which say "higher
performance at the same clock speed" - because in reality, for any
given level of technology, you can't get to the same clock speed
with an OOO design as with in-order.
For example, the single chip HAL-III didn't arrive until late 1998,
three years behind UltraSPARC. Before that, HAL was an expensive
multi-chip processor running at only slightly over 100 MHz, around
half the clock speed of the then-current UltraSPARCs and perhaps
two-thirds of the real-world performance.
So from a performance standpoint, UltraSPARC-I/II has constantly
out-performed the HAL-I/II/III of the same time, and I expect
UltraSPARC-III will do the same over HAL-5. So thinking into the
future, with upgrades etc in mind, I'd stay with Sun.
Furthermore, as others have pointed out, the HAL processors are not
simply plug-in replacements which fit into existing Sun systems or
even run Sun's releases of Solaris. Alas, Fujitsu have gone off with
their own versions of Solaris, now falling well behind Sun's releases.
PS: Right now is perhaps not the best time to be buying an old
UltraSPARC-II based system. Have you considered an UltraSPARC-III
based system? I'd think a SunBlade would make a great RSA server...

 wrote in message
news:3A16A35E...@pattosoft.com.au...


 -Mike
Look for the sun fire 280r server.  It's a rack-ready server version of
the sun blade.  Technically speaking, the 'blade is a workstation,
meaning that you have to pay for framebuffer and monitor.
The big important thing about the 'blade and the 280r is that they are
UltraSparc III- based.  US III processors start at 600mhz, and go up
thru 750 and (planned) 900mhz.
If I had money to spend, I'd look at the 280r.
Shipping leadtimes probably fall into the "Awww, crap" category, though.
HTH
- rx
Sent via Deja.com 
http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 wrote in message
news:8vc8su$580$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
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 According to sun shipping is delayed for sometime?
Yes, well I've been trying to get one for some time, with no
luck no far... but then I'm at a big disadvantage being down
under (Sun Australia is a total joke).
If anyone out there is willing to sell me a SunBlade (or
allow me to buy one through them), please let me know...
I'd like to get one before the end of the year, since I want
to include results for it in my thesis...
JASON PATTERSON
 
ja...@pattosoft.com.au
 
http://www.pattosoft.com.au/jason
 Imagine that CRAY decides to make a personal computer. It contains 16
 Alpha based processors executing in parallel, has 800 megabytes of RAM,
 9 Gigabytes of disk storage, a resolution of 4096 x 4096 pixels, does
 24bit 3D graphics in realtime, relies entirely on voice recognition for
 input, fits in your shirt pocket and costs $300. What is the first
 question the computer community asks?
 "Is it DOS compatible?"

future, with upgrades etc in mind, I'd stay with Sun.
Except that you can't upgrade US-II systems to US-III. You can upgrade
processors in current Fujitsu SPARC64 systems to the next generation.
			Yours Truly,
			Jeffrey Boulier

 -Mike
They are shipping in limited quantities now (i just got my first
three).  Very fast (single 750Mhz processor), it runs our applications
much faster (though i don't have any numbers yet).  But the case is
massive (+30kilos, almost 6RU maybe, and very deep).  If space is an
issue for you, this could be a problem.
--
e

 says that the SPARC64 IV was
certified as SPARC compliant in July, but I haven't seen any notices
of it shipping either.  It'd be nice to know what's really happening
in this area.

 248 MHz ... What can I upgrade those processors to?
Presumably your only option will be HAL-V, when it eventually arrives.
At least you will get VIS with HAL-V, which brings you back to
"mainstream" SPARCV9 compatibility, and the HAL-V core is very wide
(6/8 issue), but you won't get the 1-cycle-latency wave-pipelined L1
cache of US-III, nor the improved VIS units or the prepare-to-branch.
I have also heard that HAL-V is at least a year away from end-user
release. But that's not official at all.
All up, HAL-V is an impressive piece of engineering, unquestionably
a very aggressive OOO design. It will be the brainiac of this CPU
generation (far more OOO than R12000, Pentium-4 or Alpha 21264).
Whether this will delay its introduction and reduce its clock speed
or not is the key question. Personally, I'd be betting that it will.
I'd be amazed to see HAL-V released before 2002, and I'd be quite
surprised if it surpassed US-III in real-world performance on any
programs except SPECfp, where the 8-issue design will probably win
because SPECfp is less sensitive to memory _latency_ and more so to
just raw memory _bandwidth_ in those nice, predictable, vectorizable
FORTRAN loops.
Anyway, that's my opinion.
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