Newsgroup: it.comp.retrocomputing
Titolo: Floppy 2.88 MByte (non quelli montati sui PS/2)

Sto cercando un floppy driver da 2.88 MB che non sia di quelli montati
sui PS/2 della IBM.
In commercio non li riesco più a trovare, e, persino il mio "Pusher"
locale (che una volta ne aveva in quantità), ora non riesce a
trovarmene uno.
La differenza tra un floppy 2.88 normale e uno IBM, è che il secondo
non ha il connettore di alimentazione (che viene data attraverso il
flat cable). Inoltre, le connessioni del flat sono diverse (ci sono
più segnali).
Possiedo alcuni floppy di questo genere e ho provato a fare un cavo di
adattamento, ma i risultati sono stati nulli.
Non sono proprietario di alcun PS/2 e non avrei la minima intenzione
di acquistarne uno, per cui vi chiedo:
1) sapete come deve/dovrebbe essere il cavo di adattamento tra
interfaccia 34 pin standard e il connettore a 34 pin IBM? Non ho il
minimo problema a costruirmene uno.
2) c'è qualcuno che ne abbia uno funzionante da vendermi?
Il floppy mi serve per creare una immagine di boot abbastanza grande
(così posso farmi i CD bootabili senza dovere impazzire per farci
stare tutto dentro). 
Per favore non ditemi di usare le formattazioni non standard come
quelle a 1680KB: "Nero Burning Rom" non le supporta.
.      ciao
_        Elio.
P.S. Non so se posso venire a Marzaglia, ma potrei (spero tu sia
disponibile!) "utilizzare" Bradipo come corriere... [scusami se non ti
ho interpellato!] 
P.P.S. Per vostra informazione, e per quelli di Udine e dintorni, il
mio "Pusher" è Zampa (Martignacco).

 tutto dentro).
Per questo scopo ti conviene comprarti un Zip, sempre, ovviamente, se hai
una macchia che dallo Zip possa bootare... In alternativa c'e` LS120, che
forse legge anche i floppy da 2.88MB.
A risentirci
\  Davide G. Borin
\\ !!Scudo anti-spam attivo!! Togliere le x e "eliminami" dall'indirizzo
\\\_____________________________________________________________________

> (così posso farmi i CD bootabili senza dovere impazzire per farci stare


 mio "Pusher" è Zampa (Martignacco).
:-))
eccolo qui...
se non mi piove un boeing sulla casa a marza ci dovrei arrivare.
non c'e' problema poi per fae da corriere!
ciao
il bradipo

 se non mi piove un boeing sulla casa 
Brutta battuta, bruttissima.
-- 
Ciao, 
Fabrizio

 Brutta battuta, bruttissima.
sara', e chiedo scusa per l'indelicatezza, tuttavia la vedo cosi' nera
che la mia unica reazione e' il sarcasmo acido - l'essere unmano e'
riuscito a deludermi definitivamente (e se vogliamo aprire una
discussione seria a riguardo...)
il bradipo

 discussione seria a riguardo...)
possiamo farlo su it.eventi.11settembre
(credimi,non c'e` niente di personale)
-- 
Ciao, 
Fabrizio

 (credimi,non c'e` niente di personale)
ci credo...
poi magari ci spieghiamo meglio...
il bradipo

 boot!!!
Perdere in che senso? Un volta fatto il boot e installato il S.O., lo Zip
lo puoi riciclare. Inoltre in quei 100MB puoi metterci un sacco di utility
che possono tornare utile in caso di emergenza.


A risentirci
Ho paura di non essermi spiegato bene:
il dischetto da 2.88 lo voglio utilizzare per creare una immagine di
boot per i miei CD. 
Un esempio può essere quello di crearmi un CD con una serie di utility
per ripristinare un disco rigido: 
Lo infilo nel driver e accendo il PC... faccio boot dal CD e
modifico/correggo il disco rigido SENZA fare boot dall'HDD.
Se possiedi le Norton Utilities, vedrai che nella directory di root
c'è un file di 2.88 MB: è la immagine del dischetto che è stato
utilizzato per rendere il CD "bootabile". 
Dentro questa immagine c'è DISKEDIT, NDD, UNDELETE e qualche altro
programma che ti permetteranno ad esmpio di "recuperare" i file
cancellati, evitando che il Sistema Operativo ti sovrascriva alcuni
file.
Purtroppo Nero Burning Rom mi permette di creare una immagine di boot
da uno Zip, ma, per ragioni tecniche, questa immagine DEVE essere
grande quanto il supporto, ovvero 100MB: non ho intenzione di rubare
ben 100MB ai dati che devo mettere nel CD!
.     ciao
_       Elio.

 boot!!!
dd if=/dev/zero of=image bs=1024k count=2880
e poi monti l'immagine in loopback.
Questo se hai linux, senno' non so che dirti...
Tentatamente,
-- 
Mariani "Darkpand" Dario 
dark...@libero.it
IAFo #126       ICQ# 49365960
"L'uomo e' tanto meno se' stesso quanto piu' parla in persona propria:
dategli una maschera e vi dira' la verita'" -- Oscar Wilde

 ai dati che devo mettere nel CD!
Ora e` piu` chiaro: e` solo un problema del software che stai usando!
Il modo piu` semplice per risolverlo e` usare del software piu` serio o
fare una micro partizione nell'HD dove creare l'immagine di boot.


fare una micro partizione nell'HD dove creare l'immagine di boot.
Credevo che Nero Burning Rom fosse considerato abbastanza serio...
Comunque c'è un problema: facendo come dici tu, sarei comunque
costretto ad utilizzare un boot manager per provare se tutto è OK,
cosa che non mi appassiona per niente. 
Solo in ufficio uso i cassettini, a casa non è mia intenzione usarli.
Non so perché, ma la soluzione del floppy a 2.88 mi sembra la più
pratica. Ma magari mi sbaglio...
.      ciao
_         Elio.

pratica. Ma magari mi sbaglio...
Crea un ramdrive da 2.88 mega. Poi prova a vedere se nero te lo accetta come
immagine di boot.

minimo problema a costruirmene uno.
Alla fine trovi una pagina che ho scaricato sui floppy del ps/2 da 2.88 quando
anche io tentavo di risolvere il problema (alla fine ho lasciato perdere). Il
floppy ps/2 ha alcuni segnali sul GND che sono in piu' ma magari funziona lo
stesso.
 
                                   Floppy Drive
       EE Commands (Registers- Lock, Unlock, Eject) 
       The floppy controller and interface connector reside on the system
       board. 
       95A Floppy Controller
          It is an NEC N82077S, 68 pin SOIC. It seems Intel bought the
       chip rights, as NEC has zippo on this one. 
       Snippets In particular, the 82077SL internally samples the IDENT
       and MFM pin level which is used to configure the operating mode
       (PC-AT, Model 30, PS/2) on the falling edge of h/w reset. 
       Configuring The 82077 For Tape Drive Mode
       82077 SL Power-on Reset Problem
       82077SL: t23a TIMING CLARIFICATION
       Interface Between 82077AA/SL and the Floppy Drive
          5. Sony MP-F40W - 14/15 There are dash 14 and 15 are two new
       drives from Sony that handle 4 MB requirements. The MP-F40W-14 has
       the DENSITY SELECT 1, DENSITY SELECT 0 on pins 2 and 33
       respectively, whereas the MP-F40W-15 has the DENSITY SELECT 1,
       DENSITY SELECT 0 on pins 2 and 6 respectively. As it is obvious
       from the table below, daisy chaining is easily done if the
       82077AA/SL is connected in the PS/2 mode (by typing IDENT high)
       with either type of drive, the only difference being the location
       of DENSITY SELECT 0. 
       Replacing The 82077SL With The 82078 (44PIN)
       Replacing The 82077SL WITH 82078 (64PIN)
       Intel 82077SL for Super Dense Floppies The interface document for
       2.88MB controller *.pdf file 
 
       Resistor Network by 95A Floppy Controller
         Bourns 4816P-002 -103 (bussed 10k ohm) Spec sheet HERE.  
       Enhanced 2.88MB Floppy
       >1. Do all floppy controller chips have the ability to pulse the
       leading edge of the of the security cmd signal? 
            No. Only the later machines support the security functions. It
       has been offered for the 9595 and 9585 at least. The electronic
       ejected 2.88MB drive comes in two "flavours": 
       92F0129 for the 9585 (all) and 9595A 92F0132 for 35/40, 56/57
       (all), 76/77 (all) 
          For the later group I can tell, that the 35/40 and 8556/8557
       have no security features integrated, most likely the 9556/9557 and
       "Bermuda" 9576/9577 lack the feature too. The FDD interface on
       these machines is a bit different from those on the "Servers".
       However: the Server 77i had these security features mentioned in
       early flyers. So it appears as if the "Lacuna" machines *have* the
       appropriate additional controller logic. 
       >2. Is this a hardware function of the controller?  
          Yes. But requires BIOS support. 
       >3. Can this be controlled by software (thru BIOS) on any
       controller? 
              There was a tool I cannot recall the name from, which could
       "lock" the EE-FDD function. You could neither insert a Floppy when
       it is empty, nor pull one out if there is one in the drive. I think
       they use a logic gate programmed on the controller to stop the
       motorized eject / load function. 
       Tim Clarke
       Hi Louis, 
           I think what the announcement (and Peter et al.) talked about
       was software to *cause* the floppy to eject *not* prevent/disable
       the feature, although I won't swear to this. I would think the
       physical switch is your only option for that. I have the
       'electronic eject' 5.25" slimline floppy in one of my 95s and none
       of the PC-DOS 7 DRVLOCK /on, DRVLOCK /off or EJECT utilities accept
       it (B:) as a supported drive. And, having thought about it ***there
       ain't no signal lines to control this on the floppy interface***.
       So, perhaps you should get a microswitch and patch that into the
       circuit, then mount the microswitch somewhere devious. Or, even
       sneakier, figure out if any of the drive select 2/3 or motor enable
       2/3 signals are actually passed through the ribbon but not
       connected on the floppy drive's PCB circuitry and use one as
       'gating control' signal for the eject signal.  
       >The *electronic* eject drive is like the standard push button
       drive. SONY  made both of them.  The EE drive allows you to lock
       the floppy disk in the drive by flipping the eject button disable
       switch on the side of the drive. Unfortantly the program to
       software eject the disk via the OS is missing in action ... 
           The DISKETTE.DGS diagnostics "overlay" tests the "security
       features" of the electronic diskette drives when possible. A bit of
       reverse engineering might reveal what is needed for recreation of
       these utilities. However, doesn't PC-DOS v7/2000 have the DRVLOCK
       and EJECT commands? More fodder for the dedicated hacker. 
       Peter
          It has - but it fails with the EE-FDD as far as I can tell. At
       least when using it in a Lacuna. As far as I can tell they have
       been intended for CD-ROMs and MODs. DRVLOCK de-activates the eject
       button and EJECT forces a media ject on them. *That* is known to
       work under PC-DOS 7.0 with a CD-ROM installed ... I use EJECT
       recently on my last PC-DOS survivor. 
       Question-
       I just noticed that the 2.88 floppy drive in one of my PS/2
       machines has an asterisk (*) printed on the top side of the blue
       eject button. Anybody has a clue as to what that might indicate? Is
       it just there for looks? 
       From Peter
       The drives with the asterisk are those for 35/40, 56/57 and 76/77 -
       but *not* for 85/90/95. Should be a 64F4148, while the "others" use
       a 64F0204.   They differ slightly in the pinout and can damage the
       planar on earlier Mod. 90 / 95. (Ed. I'm using an asterisk 2.88 on
       my 9590. Note that this is a later planar!) 
       Hi Al ! 
       >9595 floppy is FRU 64F0204. Floppy I have that is mounted to the
       sled is FRU 64F4148. Can I use this floppy on my 9595/8595 without
       fear? 
          That 64F4148 is the 35/40, 56/57, 76/77 FDD. If you really like
       your 95 you *do not* try it in there. A team mate once did it ...
       and it took us some days to solder in a new FDD-controller ...
       (main problem was to find one at first) 
          I cannot figure out *exactly* what caused the mess, but it has
       to do with the "security features" available on the 95 - and the
       corresponding pins on the 56 - 77 being not present and set to GND.
       For the older 8595 IBM published a warning, that use of the
       inappropriate FDD could permanently damage the sysboard. 
       Why Are There 3 Floppy Connectors?
       > I noticed hat the diskette drive connects to the motherboard
       using some sort of strange connector.  It appears to be about 44
       pins or so (compared to the SCSI connector), and the ribbon cable
       has *3* plugs coming off it. 
          I never heard of anyone putting 3 diskette drives in a machine
       (let alone a PS/2), and diskette drives use 30 (?) pins.  So what
       are the extra pins and connector for? 
       From Peter 
          The Mod. 56 / 57 / 76 / 77 / 85 / 90 / 95 use a somewhat
       different FDD-connector on the planar. They have the Type-3
       FDD-interface, which also supports 2.88MB drives ("Media-Sense
       Drives"). The third connector is for a very odd ITBU Internal Tape
       Backup Unit, which was a slightly modified IRWIN 120MB tape. The
       machine supports only 2 FDDs - as usual. 
          The FDD-plugs are 34-pins (2 x 17), only the planar connector is
       a bit strange 44-pins. This type of interface contains also lines
       for security control, i.e. in connection with the "Electronic Eject
       2.88MB FDD", which can be locked and password protected.  
          Tried to find a pinout of the connector but haven't found any at
       the  moment ...  
       System Reports 165- But Is the Floppy Working?
       From Tim Clarke
       >b) the floppy controller/drive/cable is suspect and needs looking
       at. However, one would have expected a 601 error is things were
       really bad. 
       Peter Responds-
          Not always. A disfuntional FDD may as well cause a 165. "It is
       configured - but does not respond". If the heads stuck, do not pass
       Track-00 tests or have RDATA stuck high or such you will surely get
       a 600-series error. But if the drive has a "DC leak" and simply
       appears as absent it is judged as "device missing but still present
       in the configuration".  
       Subtopics: 
       o Installing a Floppy in a 95
       o media formats and transfer rates
       o Floppy cable pinout
       o FIFO Mode
       o Removable Media Security
       o Secure Media Mode
       o Registers
       The diskette drive controller supports: 
       o Four data transfer rates:
          - 250000 /  300000 / 500000 / 1000000 bits per second
       o Programmable precompensation
       o A 16-byte FIFO buffer
       o The following IBM drives:
          - 3.5-inch 1.44MB
          - 3.5-inch 2.88MB
          - 3.5-inch enhanced 2.88MB (removable-media security)
          - 5.25-inch 1.2MB
       o The secure media mode and the enhanced commands
       Media formats supported by the controller and the transfer rates
       associated with each format. 
         MEDIA            CAPACITY           SECTORS    NO. OF     DATA
         SIZE                               PER TRACK  TRACKS      RATE
                 UNFORMATTED   FORMATTED                          (KBPS)
        3.5 in       1.0MB        720KB         9         80       250
        3.5 in       2.0MB        1.44MB        18        80       500
        3.5 in       4.0MB        2.88MB        36        80       1000
        5.25 in      0.5MB        360KB         9         40     300/250
        5.25 in      1.6MB        1.20MB        15        80       500
       Floppy Cable Pinout
       The diskette drive cable converts a 2- by 22-pin connector on the
       system board into three 2- by 17-pin connectors for attaching
       internal diskette drives. The cables pass control and data signals
       between the diskette drive controller on the system board and the
       drives. They also provide the power to each drive. 
       Note The 3.5-inch drives are required to support media-sensing. 
       System board connector pinout
        Pin             Signal             Pin           Signal
         1       -2nd drive installed      23            Ground
         2        Data rate select 1       24         -Write enable
         3             +5 V dc             25            Ground
         4   Drive type ID 1/Drive status  26            -Track0
                          1
         5              Ground             27   Media type 0/Drive status
                                                            2
         6             +12 V dc            28        -Write protect
         7              Ground             29            Ground
         8              -Index             30          -Read data
         9   Drive Type 0/Drive status 0   31            Ground
        10             Reserved            32        -Head 1 select
        11              Ground             33      Data rate select 0
        12         -Drive select 0         34        Diskette change
        13              Ground             35        Drive select 1
        14       -Security command 0       36            Ground
        15              Ground             37      -Security command 1
        16         -Motor enable 0         38            Ground
        17   Media type 1/Drive status 3   39        -Motor enable1
        18          -Direction in          40        -Drive select 2
        19              Ground             41            Ground
        20              -Step              42      -Security command 2
        21              Ground             43            Ground
        22           -Write data           44        -Motor enable 2
 
       Floppy drive connector pinout.
        Pin           Signal            Pin           Signal
         1            Ground            18         -Direction i
         2      Data rate select 1      19            Ground
         3            +5 V dc           20             -Step
         4  Drive type 1/Drive status 1 21            Ground
         5            Ground            22          -Write data
         6           +12 V dc           23            Ground
         7            Ground            24         -Write enable
         8            -Index            25            Ground
         9  Drive type 0/Drive status 0 26           -Track 0
        10           Reserved           27  Media type 0/drive status 2
        11            Ground            28        -Write protect
        12         -Drive select        29            Ground
        13            Ground            30          -Read data
        14       -Security command      31            Ground
        15            Ground            32        -Head 1 select
        16         -Motor enable        33      Data rate select 0
        17  Media type 1/drive status 3 34        -Diskettechange
 
       FIFO Mode
       The diskette drive controller uses a FIFO buffer to enhance DMA
       transfer operations.  The FIFO buffer is used in the data transfer
       phase only, and its operation is transparent to programs. 
       Removable Media Security
       The diskette drive controller in this system supports the optional
       2.88MB enhanced diskette drive, which has a media-security feature.
       This diskette drive supports Lock, Unlock, and Eject commands; the
       Lock command inhibits diskettes from being removed or inserted.
       Additionally, if the privileged-access password is set and the
       diskette drive is in the boot path, the drive is automatically
       locked. 
       FRUs I have seen for the 2.88MB enhanced diskette drive 92F0132,
       92F0129, and I saw 82G1888 mentioned as well. 
       Secure Media Mode
       The secure media mode allows the diskette drive to receive enhanced
       commands. These commands provide a means of controlling access to
       the media in the diskette drives.  Through these commands, programs
       can eject a diskette or disable the 
       mechanism, which inhibits media from being removed or inserted. 
       To determine whether the mode and commands are supported for a
       specific drive: 
        1. With the enhanced-command bit set to 1, test the state of the
       drive type (1,0) signals by reading the Drive Status register. 
                Note   For information on the enhanced-command bit, refer
       to System Control Port C (Hex 007C). 
        2. With the enhanced-command bit set to 0, retest the state of the
       signals. 
           If the signals change to a binary 11, the mode and commands are
       supported for that drive. 
       EE Commands
       Lock Drive     This command causes the drive to inhibit the loading
       and removal of diskettes.  If a diskette is present when the
       command is issued, the drive will not eject the diskette.  If a
       diskette is not present, the drive inhibits the loading of a
       diskette. (Depending on the characteristics of the drive, it may
       load the diskette and immediately try to eject it). 
          NoteAllow 500 milliseconds after an Eject Media command before
       issuing the Lock Drive command.
       Unlock Drive   This command enables the load-and-eject mechanism,
       which allows diskettes to be removed from and inserted into the
       selected drive. 
       Eject Media    This command is the same as pressing the eject
       button on the front of  the drive; it causes the drive to eject a
       diskette. This command is ignored if the drive is locked. 
       The command to be performed is determined by the value in the
       data-rate-select bits (in the Data Rate Control register) at the
       positive-going edge of the -security cmd signal.  To issue an
       enhanced command: 
        1. Select the drive and save the state of the data-rate-select
       bits. 
        2. Ensure that the System Control Port C is available (bit 7 will
       be 0). 
        3. Set the enhanced-command bit to 0 (bit 0 of the System Control
       Port C). 
        4. Set the data-rate-select bits to the desired command. 
        5. Set the enhanced-command bit to 1. 
        6. Restore the data-rate-select bits to the desired data rate. 
       Note   If the drive is deselected before the enhanced-command bit
       is reset to 1, the drive does not perform the command. 
       Command encoding of data rate select (1,0) signals. 
        Enhanced Commands
        DATA RATE SELECT 1 0 RESULTING COMMAND
                0 0          Eject Media
                0 1          Lock Drive
                1 0          Unlock Drive
                1 1          Reserved
       Diskette Drive Registers
 
        REGISTER          R/W ADDRESS
        Status register A R   03F0
        Status register   R   03F1
        Digital output    R/W 03F2
        Drive status      R   03F3
        Controller status R   03F4
        Precomp select    W   03F4
        Command/data      R/W 03F5
        Digital input     R   03F7
        Data rate control W   03F7
                                   9595 Planar
                                  9595 Main Page
 

stesso.
Purtroppo conoscevo già quella pagina e, pur avendo uno dei floppy
riportati, non sono riuscito a combinare niente: il floppy comincia a
girare, sento che tenta di fare un seek, ma, niente...
Magari il cavo che avevo fatto era OK ed il floppy era semplicemente
KO. 
Devo anche dire che il mio PUSHER mi ha "promesso" che dovrebbero
arrivargli delle macchine (logicamente usate) con dei floppy a 2.88.
Nelle prossime settimane saprò qualcosa di più.
.       ciao e grazie
_           Elio.