Newsgroup: it.cultura.storia.militare
Titolo: La morte di Michael Wittman: sherman o typhoon ??? (08.08.1944)

Innanzitutto mi scuso per aver postato un lungo papiro inglese, il
traduttore automatico mi aveva fornito un qualcosa di delirante che aveva
trasformato l'accertamento dei fatti in comicità involontaria per cui ho
rinunciato alla traduzione. Tempo fa ricordo che era stato affrontato questo
tema nel ng e casualmente ho trovato questa interessante analisi
dell'avvenimento che propende per un colpo di sherman.
Segnalo anche questo link, sempre su Wittman, dove mi pare invece prevalere
l'idea del typhoon.
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/gen3.htm
Come sempre ognuno tiri le conclusioni che vuole.
Un ultima cosa: se i + di voi non sopportano (come il sottoscritto) i lunghi
cut and paste, ma preferiscono i link da consultare, fatemelo sapere che non
occupererò + spazio vitale...mmh, spazio vitale, mi puzza di già sentito,
meglio evitare...:)
salus
Ball
<<There are a lot of conflicting and spurious accounts re Wittmann's death
on Aug. 8 1944 - (just under 2 months after his famous action at
Villers-Bocage) - from surrounded by 5 Canadian Shermans, to Polish
Shermans, artillery/naval strike, Typhoon hit etc., etc.
But contrary to the oft quoted Typhoon strike, the latest and the ONLY one
that can be substantiated with facts is, that he WAS taken out with 2 shots
to his right rear flank by a single Sherman Firefly belonging to Sgt. Gordon
(gunner; Trooper Joe Ekins), from 3.Plt., A.Sqn., 33.Arm. Bgd.,
1.Northamptonshire Yeomanry.
This Firefly was hidden in a tree line with a troop of standard 75mm
Shermans to Wittmann's starboard side N.East of Gaumesnil as he moved north
in command Tiger "007" (ex Heinz Von Westerhagen's, whom he had succeeded as
Bttn.CO on July 10 when the former suffered complications to a head wound,
hence inheriting his Tiger). Wittmann's was the last vehicle in the advance,
through an open field parallel to the N158, toward the reported 1.Polish
Arm.Div. reported to be ahead at Aignan de Cramesnil.
He did so along with 6 other Tigers, 5 of which were initially KO'd and 1
abandonned in this unexpected ambush, with the last KO'd a little later
(source: "TIC 2"; p.259 text, p.290 pic., + Agte; pp.423-433 text {p.425 in
particular}, p.477 pic, + pp.182-183 "Panzers in Normandy - Then & Now {a
little dated and still claiming 5 Shermans and only 4 Tigers}, + p.46-53
"After the Battle" mag no. 48 - "Michael Wittmannn's Last Battle" - which
even has transripts of British I/C and radio traffic decribing the
incidents).
The only minor glitch is that the British claim less kills than Tigers
found, but in the heat of battle no one would really be keeping meticulous
score).
The Agte book describes the action concisely even down to recollections from
Hans Hoflinger who witnessed the hits into the side wall around the fuel
tank area that initially lifted and displaced the turret onto the hull top,
and began a fire, before ammo cooking off sent it skyward to its final
resting place behind the vehicle. The penetrations and subsequent explosions
instantly killed the crew (Agte p.425 & 429). The vehicle was obviously
still moving when hit and the explosions have broken both tracks while it
continued rolling off them till slewing to a halt some 20 metres further on.
The Germans for a long time refused to believe he had been killed and listed
him as "MIA" for morale purposes though most officers in s.SS.Pz.Abt.101 new
he had been killed. His roadside grave, were he was buried by local
civilians in a communal pit, was found in 1983 based on research being done
for "Panzers in Normandy - Then & Now". The research led to the German War
Graves Commission searching the area with metal detectors, finding the
bodies and relocating his and his crew's remains to La Cambe War Cemetary
where they still lie today.
Why the Typhoon myth still persists when so much evidence now 'proves' it
was a lone Firefly, is a mystery? The Germans apparently began it as a
propaganda exercise to refuse admitting to the troops and public he was
beaten by another tank, and made his end sound more martyr-like going down
to the dreaded Jabo.
Apart from everything else stacked against it, the Typhoon account suffers
even further, if not fatally, due to no sorties being recorded as having
flown in that area on that day.
The engine deck damage reported by a French farmer, of questionable
reliabilty anyway, could easily, and most likely, have resulted from the
fuel tanks going up and the subsequent ammo explosions following the 17pdr
penetration.
On pp.425-430 of Agte's book the story is presented fairly conclusively.
Wittmann at first wasn't going to go along on the attack but at the last
minute changed his mind as he felt the platoon leader Heurich was too
inexperienced - this being only his first action. Apparently Wittmann was
uneasy about the probe, but put this aside out of a sense of duty to to do
the right thing and keep an eye on Heurich.
Advancing in the group of 6 other Tigers with Wittmann (7 total), was
Dollinger, Blase (314), Iriohn, Kisters (312?), Rolf Von Westernhagen (334?)
and Hans Höflinger (who was in the other command Tiger possibly 008, or
009 - though 009 should have been Dollinger's so not sure of his mount on
this attack.). Tiger 314 - Blase's, is mentioned as the only other KO'd
Tiger apart from 007 that can be ID'd from the pics.
On p.425 Agte states:
"Hans Höflinger now describes the subsequent course of the attack from his
experience: 'Then we drove off, Michel (sic) right of the road and I left,
four others with Michel and the brother of Heinz Von Westernhagen with me.
Approximately 800 meters to Michel's right there was a small wood which
struck us as suspicious and which was to prove fateful to us. Unfortunately,
we couldn't keep the wood under observation on account of our mission. We
drove about one to one-and-a half kilometres, and then I received another
radio message from Michel which only confirmed my suspicions about the wood.
We began taking heavy fire from anti-tank guns and once again Michel called,
but didn't complete the message. When I looked out to the left I saw that
Michel's tank wasn't moving. I called him by radio but received no answer.
Then my tank received a frightful blow and I had to order my crew to get out
as it had already begun to burn fiercely. My crew and I dashed toward the
rear and got through. I stopped to look around and to my dismay discovered
that five of our tanks had been knocked out. The turret of Michel's tank was
displaced to the right and tilted down somewhat. None of his crew had got
out. I climbed into Von Westernhagen's tank and, together with Heurich,
whose Tiger was undamaged, tried to get to Michel's tank. We could not get
through. Dr. Rabe also tried it, but in vain...I can state the exact time of
the incident; it was 1255 hours, near the Falaise-Caen road in the vicinity
of Cintheaux.
Agte then follows up on p.425 with the British account of the incident:
"...At 1240 hours Captain Boardman gave Sergeant Gordon's tank the order to
fire. The Tigers were seven-hundred meters distant. The Firefly's gunner was
Trooper Joe Ekins, who hit the rearmost Tiger of the three Tigers in his
sight with two shots. The Tigers had failed to spot the well-camouflaged
Shermans, and it was only after the first shots had been fired and a Tiger
knocked out that Wittmann transmitted the message referred to by
SS-Hauptscharfuhrer Höflinger: 'Move! Attention! Attention! Anti-tank guns
to the right! - Back up!...'
On p.425 "Höflinger described how, after it was hit, the turret of
Wittmann's Tiger was displaced to the right and tilted forward. That was its
condition immediately after the tank was knocked out. Furthermore it is
absolutely certain that the turret was blown off shortly afterward by the
force of the exploding ammunition - possibly accelerated by burning fuel in
the fighting compartment - and thrown several meters away from the tank.
This is confirmed by the only existing photo of 007, taken by a French
civilian soon after the engagement. The Tiger therefore began to burn
immediately after it was hit, which by then caused the ammunition in the
turret to explode. Only the tremendous force produced by the exploding
armour-piercing and high-explosive shells could have torn the turret, which
weighed tonnes, from the hull and then tossed it meters through air. The
crew must have been killed or incapacitated when the tank was hit. The
subsequent explosion then extinguished any doubts as to the fate of the five
men inside 007."
Hans Dollinger the battalion signals officer, and SS-Sturmmann Alfred Bahlo
his Radio Op, also recount their experiences as the lead vehicle in the
attack along a similar vein to Höflinger...and say on p.429 as they make
their way back from their burning Tiger with the fatally wounded Obschf.
Schott "...On the way we passed the knocked out panzer of Hauptsturmführer
Wittmann; the turret was blown off."
Dr. Rabe also witnessed the hit and described it in a letter to Wittmann's
wife to tell her the real story: "When the attack got rolling, I drove
forward several hundred meters and covered the last stretch on foot. There
was quite a lot of heavy anti-tank and artillery fire. I wanted to get to
Michel's (sic) tank. When I got to within about 250 to 300 meters I saw
flames suddenly shoot from the tank and the turret fly off and fall to the
ground. The tank then burned out completely. I still tried to reach it, but
I couldn't cross the open field as the Tommy fired at solitary me with their
anti-tank guns. It is unlikely Michel got out before the hit, as I would
have seen him. None of the remaining crew members came back either."
Agte sums up with the following:
After evaluating all available documents on the German and English sides and
interviewing the handful of survivors of this action..., one can only assume
that the tank that was hit at 1247 hours, was 007. SS-Hauptsturmführer
Dr.Rabe's account and the English war diary both mention that this was the
only Tiger that blew up after being hit. The eight minute time discrepancy
compared to that given in Höflinger's account is of little significance as
the source of the error appears to be completely genuine and time
discrepancies can never be ruled out. As well, Höflinger's account was
written several weeks after the events in question; it is also thoroughly
possible that the error in time might lie in he English war diary."
Hope this is of some help to finally put this to one to sleep and has been
of some interest, but anyone even remotely interested in Wittmann and/or LAH
in general should dig deep and get a copy of Agte's huge album as it really
is the bible on all things 1.SS.Pz.Div.>>

 
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/gen3.htm
Grazie Ball,
il sito l'avevo visitato e il brano da te postato è molto bello.
Effettivamente propende per l'attacco aereo come riportato nei libri che ho
consultato.
Certo come per Manfred (faccio un esempio a te caro) ognuno vuole il merito.
Per "decidere" occorrerebbe il tenente Colombo.
Personalmente pongo l'accento sul fatto che gli aerei hanno distrutto in un
giorno 135 carri ed evidentemente loro hanno dato il contributo decisivo
alla distruzione delle forze corazzate tedesche (distruggendo carri, camion,
traporti, paralizzando i movimenti).
I carristi inglesi seppure coraggiosi (ammettiamo la storiella
dell'imboscata che un po' tutti si attribuivano) non potevano certo
confrontarsi con i colossi tedeschi.
Questa la mia opinione.
Grazie Ball

Lorenzo <ti.pia...@spammare.eh> wrote in message
UiU47.78654$q77.7...@news2.tin.it...
: Grazie Ball,
[SNIP]
: I carristi inglesi seppure coraggiosi (ammettiamo la storiella
: dell'imboscata che un po' tutti si attribuivano) non potevano certo
: confrontarsi con i colossi tedeschi.
: Questa la mia opinione.
: Grazie Ball
Inoltre sai che propaganda negativa sul morale delle truppe sapere che
Wittman era stato battuto da carri armati...
salus
Ball

 salus
"salus" è un saluto degli aviatori cartaginesi ?
Oppure è il nome del tuo cane osservatore-mitragliere ?
:-))))
con grande simpatia
Lorenzo

Lorenzo <ti.pia...@spammare.eh> wrote in message
cqY47.121964$cd.6...@news1.tin.it...
: Certo, Albert il simpaticone preparatissimo,
Troppo buono.
:  non ancora decorato.
Come no: DSO + DSO Bar + Victoria Cross + 2 unghiate del mio osservatore
: Ho una domanda da porti:
: > salus
: "salus" č un saluto degli aviatori cartaginesi ?
Sě, ce lo portiamo come ricordo dopo la scampagnata in Italia...:))
: Oppure č il nome del tuo cane osservatore-mitragliere ?
: :-))))
In effetti mitraglia parecchio con la sua Vickers ad acqua...
: con grande simpatia
: Lorenzo
Ricambio
Ball