Newsgroup: it.cultura.storia.militare
Titolo: 29a Waffen SS Division

Qualcuno possiede delle informazioni al riguardo delle operazioni e dei
luoghi in cui fu impiegata questa divisione?
Grazie.
-- 
questo articolo e` stato inviato via web dal servizio gratuito 
http://www.newsland.it/news
 segnala gli abusi ad 
ab...@newsland.it

 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:b9vreb$8ub$1...@news.newsland.it...


 luoghi in cui fu impiegata questa divisione?
http://www.wssob.com/029divrus.html
"The division is perhaps most infamous for its barbarity and drunkenness
during the fall 1944 Warsaw Uprising. The unit was even too out of control
for SS tastes, and Kaminski was assassinated and the unit disbanded."
Ciao,
Jorge

come mai vi sono due divisioni identificate dallo stesso "numero"?


 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:b9vu1c$15r$1...@news.newsland.it...


 > Grazie.
Complimenti, hai scelto un bell'esempio di non una, ma due unità per le
quali la discussione tra me e Sesto Pompeo è irrilevante; là si discute di
unità tedesche che hanno combattuto ed eventualmente commesso atrocità in
attività anti-partigiane e crimini di guerra, e si disquisisce se si possa
parlare delle loro legittime attività belliche separatamente dagli eventuali
crimini di guerra;
qui il problema non si pone, perchè queste due hanno soltanto, o quasi
soltanto, svolto attività anti-partigiane e ovviamente perlopiù commettendo
crimini di guerra.
La 29. Waffen-Grenadierdivision der SS (Russische nr. 1) era prima nota come
Brigata Kaminski, composta inizialmente da circa 7.000 rinnegati perlopiù
ucraini. Aggregata alle Waffen SS nel tardo 1943, svolse compiti di
sicurezza nelle retrovie del Gruppo d'Armate Centro, ben presto acquisendo
una nomea per le atrocità. Nell'agosto 1944 prese parte alla repressione
dell'insurrezione di Varsavia, commettendo tali assurde violenze da far sì
che le autorità tedesche, e non quelle della Wehrmacht, ma di
_altre_unità_SS_, ne esigessero il ritiro. Sembra che nella sola giornata
del 5.8.44 fucilassero circa 10000 civili polacchi non armati. Kaminski fu
ucciso in circostanze misteriose (probabilmente per ordini dall'alto; ormai
era diventato un imbarazzo anche per le SS, e questo la dice lunga sulla
tempra morale del personaggio), l'unità disciolta, e i membri distribuiti
tra le unità di Vlassov o la 30. Waffen-Grenadierdivision der SS (Russische
nr. 2).
Ciò lasciava libero il numero 29 per:
la 29. Waffen-Grenadierdivision der SS (Italienische nr. 1). Conosciuta in
date diverse e da fonti diverse anche come 1. Italienisches
Freiwilligen-Sturmbrigade, Legione SS Italiana, o 1. Italienisches
Freiwilligen-Verband, costituita nell'ottobre 1943. Forza iniziale un
reggimento, con circa 2.950 volontari italiani, 66 ufficiali tedeschi e 350
sottufficiali tedeschi, addestrata a Munsingen. Nel gennaio 1944 assunse
compiti anti-partigiani in nord Italia. Il titolo ufficiale di 29. divisione
delle SS è del settembre 1944, parecchio più tardi; a quel punto, era debole
per una divisione, con circa 6.000 uomini. Molti citano una sua
partecipazione al combattimento contro gli Alleati ad Anzio (Maggio 1944).
In realtà è probabile che vi fosse un solo battaglione indipendente di SS
italiane, pre-esistente la formazione della divisione. Le varie sotto-unità
furono perlopiù schierate separatamente, sempre impegnati in compiti di
"sicurezza"; si registrano tra l'altro nomi di battaglioni, "Debica" (dalla
località polacca in cui ebbero l'addestramento iniziale questi volontari,
provenienti dal fronte russo), "Vendetta". Per fare contento Sesto Pompeo,
non trascurerò di ricordare che come potete immaginare commisero atrocità e
crimini di guerra. Il battaglione "Vendetta" si arrese agli Americani
nell'aprile 1945.
Difficile trovare unità molto più sgradevoli, anche se devo dire che
unit-731, con il suo soprannome, ce ne ricorda una.
Saluti,
Michele

 per una divisione, con circa 6.000 uomini.
[...]
La designazione di 29° Waffen SS Grenadier Divisionen è del febbraio '45,
derivando direttamente dalla Waffen Grenadier Brigade der SS (italianische
nr.1).
Jaco

 del 5.8.44 fucilassero circa 10000 civili polacchi non armati.
Forse il numero a lui attribuito è eccessivo comunque oltre che assassino
era anche un torturatore, un personaggio veramente terribile che odiava i
polacchi anche per rancori personali essendo in passato un esponente di un
partito nazionalista ucraino che era attivo contro le minoranze polacche
della zona est.


 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:tbTwa.5422$Ny5.1...@twister2.libero.it...

"Divisionen" è plurale. Si scrive "italienische", non "italianische". Gli
ordinali in tedesco si notano "29.", non "29°".
Comunque, a parte le pedanterie, le mie fonti per questa datazione sono
The Waffen-SS, di Windrow e Burn
The Italian Army 1940-45, di Jowett e Andrew
Le tue? Grazie,
Michele

 Il bombardamento su Dresda invece?
Sempre ai sensi della Convenzione, art. 25, non sono crimini di guerra.
Informati; altrimenti un lettore casuale potrebbe inavvertitamente avere
l'impressione che le tue posizioni siano vicine a quelle dei revisionisti
filo-nazisti.
Michele

 guerra; una stella rossa o un fazzoletto azzurro sono sufficienti.
Non prendere le mie parole come polemica, ma penso che allora anche i
combattenti talebani (di cui avevamo gia' discusso in un vecchio post)
possano rientrare in questa categoria.
La questione, imho, e' che il diritto e' sufficientemente chiaro, la sua
applicazione invece e' a discrezione dei contendenti.
Ciao,
Jorge

 Le tue? Grazie,
Tessin, "Verbande un Truppen der deutschen Whermacht und Waffen-SS
1939-1945"
Band 2
(Die Landstreitkrafte 1-5)  Biblio Verlag ISBN 3-7648-1170-6
Nafziger " The German Order of battle: Waffen SS and other units in World
War II", Combined Publishing, ISBN 1-58097-058-3
Jaco

 La designazione di 29° Waffen SS Grenadier Divisionen è del febbraio '45,
Fu formata ufficialmente il 9 marzo 1945.
Fonte: 
http://www.feldgrau.com/29iss.html
(che per queste notizie è solitamente attendibile).
Saluti
Mauro Geranzani
--
"Wenn wir auch darüber zugrunde gehe,
schön war's doch" (E. v. Falkenhayn,
4.VIII.1914)

 War II", Combined Publishing, ISBN 1-58097-058-3
Mi hai convinto, Tessin vince per KO al primo round. Mi chiedo però da dove
quelli che ho citato io abbiano tirato fuori la loro data. Forse la
peculiare posizione di questa unità ha contribuito alla confusione.
Grazie,
Michele

 > Il bombardamento su Dresda invece?
francamente considero i bombardamenti sulle città tedesche, giapponesi ed
italiane, i rastrellamenti, la guerra di massa, la distruzione delle città
ed il sacrificio degli inermi come delle storture inaccettabili, a
prescindere da quello che può essere scritto in una convenzione o negli
atti del tribunale di guerra di Norimberga istituito come "continuazione
degli sforzi di guerra" dai vincitori x giudicare i vinti...
"Tinta del sangue dei vinti ogni spada è innocente"... questa frase di A.
Chenier riassume in sostanza la mia opinione...


 degli sforzi di guerra" dai vincitori x giudicare i vinti...
Ciò posto, ed ammesso che sotto gli aspetti procedurali i processi di
Norimberga non sono state sempre esemplari, se ritieni che i condannati
siano da compatire, poverini, perchè condannati solo in quanto vinti, allora
anche gli atti di quei processi te li devi leggere.
Buono studio, saluti.

 applicazione invece e' a discrezione dei contendenti.
Giusto. Tieni presente però che mentre il diritto era veramente telegrafico
nel 1939-45, e quindi più soggetto alle interpretazioni, la situazione è
migliorata dopo Ginevra - per gli aspetti coperti da quelle convenzioni, che
non coprono comunque tutte le eventualità.
Michele

Molti citano una sua partecipazione al combattimento contro gli Alleati ad
Anzio (Maggio 1944).
Effettivamente il Btg. Vendetta (2° btg - 1° rgt), al comando del colonnello
Degli Oddi, entrò in linea sul fronte Anzio-Nettuno nell'aprile 1944
aggregato all 715° Inf. Div. (la stessa in cui era aggregato il Btg.
Barbarigo). Fu impeganto nei combattimenti per oltre 70 giorni: i caduti
furono 340 su un totale di 640 effettivi. Il labaro del btg fu decorato con
la medaglia d'argento al valor militare oltre alle 22 croci di ferro
individuali.
Il Btg. Debica, al comando del capitano Dal Dosso, entrò in linea nel maggio
1944 sul settore nord (Civitavecchia-Fiumicino) del fronte. [Non sono
riuscito a trovare altre notizie]

 anche gli atti di quei processi te li devi leggere.
"Questo tribunale rappresenta una continuazione degli sforzi di guerra
delle nazioni alleate". Basterebbe questa dichiarazione, resa dal
Procuratore Generale degli Stati Uniti, in occasione della seduta del 26
Luglio 1946, x giudicare l'intera farsa...


 non coprono comunque tutte le eventualità.
Infatti, probabilmente le eventualita' non coperte sono quelle piu'
frequenti oggigiorno, in cui imho una delle due parti ignora quasi per
intero queste convenzioni (mentre da' molto piu' peso a leggi tribali o
consuetudini locali) e l'altra le conosce alla perfezione.
Ciao
Jorge


Al processo principale furono presentati oltre 100.000 documenti originali
tedeschi, di cui 4.000 furono effettivamente usati come prove. Furono usate
inoltre 1.800 foto catturate ai tedeschi. Furono ascoltati oltre 250
testimoni. e stiamo parlando solo del processo principale.
Robert H. Jackson era il pubblico ministero capo, non un giudice. Può aver
detto quello che gli pare nella sua arringa conclusiva del 26 luglio 1946,
non ha importanza, dato che nei processi di Norimberga, secondo il modello
statunitense, esisteva il principio base della terzietà del magistrato
giudicante rispetto all'accusa e alla difesa - principio che, possiamo
aggiungere, brillava per la sua assenza nei tribunali speciali e anche in
quelli ordinari nazisti e fascisti.
Per i motivi di cui sopra, è ridicolo sostenere che il processo fu una
farsa, soltanto sulla base di quella frase del pubblico ministero. Prima di
riparlare dell'argomento, perchè non vai a visitarti un lager?
Per tua informazione, un estratto delle parti salienti - e ben più
importanti di quella frase - dell'arringa di Jackson. E questa, come
ribadisco, è solo l'arringa dell'accusa.
Buona lettura, ne hai bisogno.
Of one thing we may be sure. The future will never have to ask, with
misgiving, what could the Nazis have said in their favor. History will know
that whatever could be said, they were allowed to say. They have been given
the kind of a trial which they, in the days of their pomp and power, never
gave to any man. . . .
The Gestapo and the SD were instrumentalities of an espionage system which
penetrated public and private life. Goring controlled a personal
wire-tapping unit. All privacy of communication was abolished. Party
Blockleiter appointed over every 50 householders spied continuously on all
within their ken.
Upon the strength of this spying, individuals were dragged off to
"protective custody" and to concentration camps without legal proceedings of
any kind and without statement of any reason therefor. The partisan
political police were exempted from effective legal responsibility for their
acts.
With all administrative offices in Nazi control and with the Reichstag
[Parliament] reduced to impotence, the judiciary remained the last obstacle
to this reign of terror. But its independence was soon overcome and it was
reorganized to dispense a venal justice. Judges were ousted for political or
racial reasons and were spied upon and put under pressure to join the Nazi
Party. . . . Special courts were created to try political crimes, only party
members were appointed judges, and "judges' letters" instructed the puppet
judges as to the "general lines" they must follow.
The result was the removal of all peaceable means either to resist or to
change the government. Having sneaked through the portals of power, the
Nazis slammed the gate in the face of all others who might also aspire to
enter. Since the law was what the Nazis said it was, every form of
opposition was rooted out, and every dissenting voice throttled. Germany was
in the clutch of a police state, which used the fear of the concentration
camp as a means to enforce nonresistance. The party was the state, the state
was the party, and terror by day and death by night were the policy of both.
. . .
From the moment the Nazis seized power, they set about feverish but stealthy
efforts, in defiance of the Versailles Treaty, to arm for war. In 1933 they
found no air force. By 1939 they had 21 squadrons, consisting of 240
echelons or about 2,400 first-line planes, together with trainers and
transports. In 1933 they found an army of 3 infantry and 3 cavalry
divisions. By 1939 they had raised and equipped an army of 51 divisions, 4
of which were fully motorized and 4 of which were Panzer divisions. In 1933
they found a navy of 1 cruiser and 6 light cruisers. By 1939 they had built
a navy of 4 battleships, 1 aircraft carrier, 6 cruisers, 22 destroyers, and
54 submarines. They had also built up in that period an armament industry as
efficient as that of any country in the world. . . .
The defendant Sauckel, Plenipotentiary General for the Utilization of Labor,
is authority for the statement that "out of 5,000,000 foreign workers who
arrived in Germany, not even 200,000 came voluntarily." It was officially
reported to defendant Rosenberg that in his territory "recruiting methods
were used which probably have their origin in the blackest period of the
slave trade." Sauckel himself reported that male and female agents went
hunting for men, got them drunk, and "shanghaied" them to Germany. These
captives were shipped in trains without heat, food, or sanitary facilities.
The dead were thrown out at stations, and the newborn were thrown out the
windows of moving trains.
Sauckel ordered that "all the men must be fed, sheltered, and treated in
such a way as to exploit them to the highest possible extent at the lowest
conceivable degree of expenditure." About two million of these were employed
directly in the manufacture of armaments and munitions. The director of the
Krupp locomotive factory in Essen complained to the company that Russian
forced laborers were so underfed that they were too weakened to do their
work, and the Krupp doctor confirmed their pitiable condition. Soviet
workers were put in camps under Gestapo guards, who were allowed to punish
disobedience by confinement in a concentration camp or by hanging on the
spot.
Populations of occupied countries were otherwise exploited and oppressed
unmercifully. Terror was the order of the day. Civilians were arrested
without charges, committed without counsel, executed without hearing.
Villages were destroyed, the male inhabitants shot or sent to concentration
camps, the women sent to forced labor, and the children scattered abroad.
The extent of the slaughter in Poland alone was indicated by Frank, who
reported, and I quote:
"If I wanted to have a poster put up for every seven Poles who were shot,
the forests of Poland would not suffice for producing the paper for such
posters." . . .
The Nazi movement will be of evil memory in history because of its
persecution of the Jews, the most far-flung and terrible racial persecution
of all time. Although the Nazi Party neither invented nor monopolized
anti-Semitism, its leaders from the very beginning embraced it, incited it,
and exploited it. They used it as "the psychological spark that ignites the
mob." After the seizure of power it became an official state policy. The
persecution began in a series of discriminatory laws eliminating the Jews
from the civil service, the professions, and economic life. As it became
more intense, it included segregation of Jews in ghettos, and exile. Riots
were organized by party leaders to loot Jewish business places and to burn
synagogues. Jewish property was confiscated, and a collective fine of a
billion marks was imposed upon German Jewry. The program progressed in fury
and irresponsibility to the "final solution." This consisted of sending all
Jews who were fit to work to concentration camps as slave laborers, and all
who were not fit, which included children under 12 and people over 50, as
well as any others judged unfit by an SS doctor, to concentration camps for
extermination.
Adolf Eichmann, the sinister figure who had charge of the extermination
program, has estimated that the anti-Jewish activities resulted in the
killing of 6 million Jews. Of these, 4 million were killed in extermination
institutions, and 2 million were killed by Einsatzgruppen, mobile units of
the Security Police and SD which pursued Jews in the ghettos and in their
homes and slaughtered them by gas wagons, by mass shooting in antitank
ditches, and by every device which Nazi ingenuity could conceive. So
thorough and uncompromising was this program that the Jews of Europe as a
race no longer exist, thus fulfilling the diabolic "prophecy" of Adolf
Hitler at the beginning of the war. . . .
The plans of Adolf Hitler for aggression were just as secret as Mein Kampf,
of which over six million copies were published in Germany. He not only
openly advocated overthrowing the Treaty of Versailles, but made demands
which went far beyond a mere rectification of its alleged injustices. He
avowed an intention to attack neighboring states and seize their lands,
which he said would have to be won with "the power of a triumphant sword." .
. .
Some two months after Schacht had sponsored his first meeting to gain the
support of the industrialists, the Nazis moved to harness industrial labor
to their aggressive plans. In April 1933 Hitler ordered Dr. Ley "to take
over the trade unions," numbering some six million members. By party
directive Ley seized the unions their property and their funds. Union
leaders, taken into "protective custody" by the SS and SA, were put into
concentration camps. The free labor unions were then replaced by a Nazi
organization known as the German Labor Front, with Dr. Ley at its head. It
was expanded until it controlled over 23 million members. Collective
bargaining was eliminated, the voice of labor could no longer be heard as to
working conditions, and the labor contract was prescribed by "trustees of
labor" appointed by Hitler. . . .
. . . Having seized power, the Nazis thought it necessary to protect it by
abolishing parliamentary government and suppressing all organized opposition
from political parties. . . . To insure the suppression of opposition a
secret police force was necessary. In order to eliminate incorrigible
opponents, it was necessary to establish concentration camps and to resort
to the device of protective custody. Protective custody, Goring testified,
meant that:
"People were arrested and taken into protective custody who had committed no
crime but who one might expect, if they remained in freedom, would do all
sorts of things to damage the German state."
The same war purpose was dominant in the persecution of the Jews. In the
beginning, fanaticism and political opportunism played a principal part, for
anti-Semitism and its allied scapegoat, mythology, was a vehicle on which
the Nazis rode to power. It was for this reason that the filthy Streicher
and the blasphemous Rosenberg were welcomed at party rallies and made
leaders and officials of the state or party. But the Nazis soon regarded the
Jews as foremost among the opposition to the police state with which they
planned to put forward their plans of military aggression. Fear of their
pacifism and their opposition to strident nationalism was given as the
reason that the Jews had to be driven from the political and economic life
of Germany. Accordingly, they were transported like cattle to the
concentration camps, where they were utilized as a source of forced labor
for war purposes. . . .
. . . despite quarrels among themselves, each defendant played a part which
fitted in with every other, and that all advanced the common plan. . . .
The large and varied role of Goring was half militarist and half gangster.
He stuck his pudgy finger in every pie. He used his SA musclemen to help
bring the gang into power. In order to entrench that power, he contrived to
have the Reichstag burned, established the Gestapo, and created the
concentration camps. He was equally adept at massacring opponents and at
framing scandals to get rid of stubborn generals. He built up the Luftwaffe
[air force] and hurled it at his defenseless neighbors. He was among the
foremost in harrying Jews out of the land. By mobilizing the total economic
resources of Germany, he made possible the waging of the war which he had
taken a large part in planning. He was, next to Hitler, the man who tied the
activities of all the defendants together in a common effort. . . .
The zealot Hess, before succumbing to wanderlust [flew to Scotland in May
1941], was the engineer tending the party machinery, passing orders and
propaganda down to the Leadership Corps, supervising every aspect of party
activities, and maintaining the organization as a loyal and ready instrument
of power. When apprehensions abroad threatened the success of the Nazi
regime for conquest, it was the duplicitous Ribbentrop, the salesman of
deception, who was detailed to pour wine on the troubled waters of suspicion
by preaching the gospel of limited and peaceful intentions. Keitel, the weak
and willing tool, delivered the armed forces, the instrument of aggression,
over to the party and directed them in executing its felonious designs.
Kaltenbrunner, the grand inquisitor, took up the bloody mantle of Heydrich
to stifle opposition and terrorize compliance, and buttressed the power of
National Socialism on a foundation of guiltless corpses. It was Rosenberg,
the intellectual high priest of the "master race," who provided the doctrine
of hatred which gave the impetus for the annihilation of Jewry, and who put
his infidel theories into practice against the Eastern Occupied Territories.
His woolly philosophy also added boredom to the long list of Nazi
atrocities. The fanatical Frank, who solidified Nazi control by establishing
the new order of authority without law, so that the will of the party was
the only test of legality, proceeded to export his lawlessness to Poland,
which he governed with the lash of Caesar and whose population he reduced to
sorrowing remnants. Frick, the ruthless organizer, helped the party to seize
power, supervised the police agencies to insure that it stayed in power, and
chained the economy of Bohemia and Moravia to the German war machine.
Streicher, the venomous vulgarian, manufactured and distributed obscene
racial libels, which incited the populace to accept and assist the
progressively savage operations of "race purification." As Minister of
Economics, Funk accelerated the pace of rearmament and as Reichsbank
president banked for the SS the gold teeth fillings of concentration camp
victims, probably the most ghoulish collateral in banking history. It was
Schacht, the facade of starched respectability, who in the early days
provided the window dressing, the bait for the hesitant, and whose wizardry
later made it possible for Hitler to finance the colossal rearmament program
and to do it secretly.
Donitz, Hitler's legatee of defeat, promoted the success of the Nazi
aggressions by instructing his pack of submarine killers to conduct warfare
at sea with the illegal ferocity of the jungle. Raeder, the political
admiral, stealthily built up the German Navy in defiance of the Versailles
Treaty, and then put it to use in a series of aggressions which he had taken
a leading part in planning. Von Schirach, poisoner of a generation,
initiated the German youth in Nazi doctrine, trained them in legions for
service in the SS and Wehrmacht [armed forces], and delivered them up to the
Party as fanatic, unquestioning executors of its will.
Sauckel, the greatest and cruelest slaver since the pharaohs of Egypt,
produced desperately needed manpower by driving foreign peoples into the
land of bondage on a scale unknown even in the ancient days of tyranny in
the kingdom of the Nile. Jodl, betrayer of the traditions of his profession,
led the Wehrmacht in violating its own code of military honor in order to
carry out the barbarous aims of Nazi policy. Von Papen, pious agent of an
infidel regime, held the stirrup while Hitler vaulted into the saddle,
lubricated the Austrian annexation and devoted his diplomatic cunning to the
service of Nazi objectives abroad.
Seyss-Inquart, spearhead of the Austrian fifth column, took over the
government of his own country only to make a present of it to Hitler, and
then, moving north, brought terror and oppression to the Netherlands and
pillaged its economy for the benefit of the German juggernaut. Von Neurath,
the old-school diplomat, who cast the pearls of his experience before Nazis,
guided Nazi diplomacy in the early years, soothed the fears of prospective
victims, and, as Reich Protector of Bohemia and Moravia, strengthened the
German position for the coming attack on Poland. Speer, as Minister of
Armaments and Production, joined in planning and executing the program to
dragoon prisoners of war and foreign workers into German war industries,
which waxed in output while the laborers waned in starvation. Fritzsche,
radio propaganda chief, by manipulation of the truth goaded German public
opinion into frenzied support of the regime and anesthetized the independent
judgment of the population so that they did without question their masters'
bidding. And Bormann, who has not accepted our invitation to this reunion,
sat at the throttle of the vast and powerful engine of the party, guiding it
in the ruthless execution of Nazi policies, from the scourging of the
Christian church to the lynching of captive Allied airmen. . . .
The dominant fact which stands out from all the thousands of pages of the
record of this trial is that the central crime of the whole group of Nazi
crimes the attack on the peace of the world was clearly and deliberately
planned. The beginning of these wars of aggression was not an unprepared and
spontaneous springing to arms by a population excited by some current
indignation. . . .
Nor were the war crimes and the crimes against humanity unplanned, isolated,
or spontaneous offenses. Aside from our undeniable evidence of their
plotting, it is sufficient to ask whether 6 million people could be
separated from the population of several nations on the basis of their blood
and birth, could be destroyed and their bodies disposed of, except that the
operation fitted into the general scheme of government. Could the
enslavement of 5 millions of laborers, their impressment into service, their
transportation to Germany, their allocation to work where they would be most
useful, their maintenance, if slow starvation can be called maintenance, and
their guarding have been accomplished if it did not fit into the common
plan? Could hundreds of concentration camps located throughout Germany,
built to accommodate hundreds of thousands of victims, and each requiring
labor and materials for construction, manpower to operate and supervise, and
close gearing into the economy, could such efforts have been expended under
German autocracy if they had not suited the plan?
Has the Teutonic passion for organization suddenly become famous for its
toleration of nonconforming activity? Each part of the plan fitted into
every other. The slave-labor program meshed with the needs of industry and
agriculture, and these in turn synchronized with the military machine. The
elaborate propaganda apparatus geared with the program to dominate the
people and incite them to a war their sons would have to fight. The armament
industries were fed by the concentration camps. The concentration camps were
fed by the Gestapo. The Gestapo was fed by the spy system of the Nazi Party.
Nothing was permitted under the Nazi iron rule that was not in accordance
with the program. Everything of consequence that took place in this
regimented society was but a manifestation of a premeditated and unfolding
purpose to secure the Nazi State a place in the sun by casting all others
into darkness.
The defendants meet this overwhelming case, some by admitting a limited
responsibility, some by putting the blame on others, and some by taking the
position in effect that while there have been enormous crimes there are no
criminals. . . .
To escape the implications of their positions and the inference of guilt
from their activities, the defendants are almost unanimous in one defense.
The refrain is heard time and again: These men were without authority,
without knowledge, without influence without importance. Funk summed up the
general self-abasement of the dock in his plaintive lament that: "I always,
so to speak, came up to the door, but I was not permitted to enter."
In the testimony of each defendant, at some point there was reached the
familiar blank wall: Nobody knew anything about what was going on. Time
after time we have heard the chorus from the dock: "I only heard about these
things here for the first time."
These men saw no evil, spoke none, and none was uttered in their presence.
This claim might sound very plausible if made by one defendant. But when we
put all their stories together, the impression which emerges of the Third
Reich, which was to last a thousand years, is ludicrous. If we combine only
the stories of the front bench, this is the ridiculous composite picture of
Hitler's government that emerges. It was composed of:
A number 2 man who knew nothing of the excesses of the Gestapo which he
created, and never suspected the Jewish extermination program although he
was the signer of over a score of decrees which instituted the persecutions
of that race;
A number 3 man who was merely an innocent middleman transmitting Hitler's
orders without even reading them, like a postman or delivery boy;
A foreign minister who knew little of foreign affairs and nothing of foreign
policy;
A field marshal who issued orders to the armed forces but had no idea of the
results they would have in practice;
A security chief who was of the impression that the policing functions of
his Gestapo and SD were somewhat on the order of directing traffic;
A party philosopher who was interested in historical research and had no
idea of the violence which his philosophy was inciting in the twentieth
century;
A governor general of Poland who reigned but did not rule;
A Gauleiter of Franconia whose occupation was to pour forth filthy writings
about the Jews, but who had no idea that anybody would read them;
A minister of interior who knew not even what went on in the interior of his
own office, much less the interior of his own department, and nothing at all
about the interior of Germany;
A Reichsbank president who was totally ignorant of what went in and out of
the vaults of his bank;
And a plenipotentiary for the war economy who secretly marshaled the entire
economy for armament, but had no idea it had anything to do with war.
. . . They deny knowing what was common knowledge. They deny knowing plans
and programs that were as public as Mein Kampf and the party program. They
deny even knowing the contents of documents they received and acted upon. .
. .
The defendants have been unanimous, when pressed, in shifting the blame on
other men, sometimes on one and sometimes on another. But the names they
have repeatedly picked are Hitler, Himmler, Heydrich, Goebbels, and Bormann.
All of these are dead or missing. No matter how hard we have pressed the
defendants on the stand, they have never pointed the finger at a living man
as guilty. It is a temptation to ponder the wondrous workings of a fate
which has left only the guilty dead and only the innocent alive. It is
almost too remarkable.
. . . Hitler did not carry all responsibility to the grave with him. All the
guilt is not wrapped in Himmler's shroud. It was these dead men whom these
living chose to be their partners in this great conspiratorial brotherhood,
and the crimes that they did together they must pay for one by one. . . .
. . . We know that even the head of the state has the same limits to his
senses and to the hours of his days as do lesser men. He must rely on others
to be his eyes and ears as to most that goes on in a great empire. Other
legs must run his errands; other hands must execute his plans. On whom did
Hitler rely for such things more than upon these men in the dock? Who led
him to believe he had an invincible air armada if not Goring? Who kept
disagreeable facts from him? Did not Goring forbid Field Marshal Milch to
warn Hitler that in his opinion Germany was not equal to the war upon
Russia? Did not Goring, according to Speer, relieve General Galland of his
air force command for speaking of the weaknesses and bungling of the air
forces? Who led Hitler, utterly untraveled himself, to believe in the
indecision and timidity of democratic peoples if not Ribbentrop, Von
Neurath, and Von Papen? Who fed his illusion of German invincibility if not
Keitel, Jodl, Raeder, and Donitz? Who kept his hatred of the Jews inflamed
more than Streicher and Rosenberg? Who would Hitler say deceived him about
conditions in concentration camps if not Kaltenbrunner, even as he would
deceive us? These men had access to Hitler and often could control the
information that reached him and on which he must base his policy and his
orders. They were the Praetorian Guard, and while they were under Caesar's
orders, Caesar was always in their hands.
. . . We have presented to this tribunal an affirmative case based on
incriminating documents which are sufficient, if unexplained, to require a
finding of guilt on count one [conspiracy to wage aggressive war] against
each defendant. In the final analysis, the only question is whether the
defendant's own testimony is to be credited as against the documents and
other evidence of their guilt. What, then, is their testimony worth? The
fact is that the Nazi habit of economizing in the use of truth pulls the
foundations out from under their own defenses. Lying has always been a
highly approved Nazi technique. Hitler, in Mein Kampf, advocated mendacity
as a policy. Von Ribbentrop admits the use of the "diplomatic lie." Keitel
advised that the facts of rearmament be kept secret so that they could be
denied at Geneva. Raeder deceived about rebuilding the German navy in
violation of Versailles. Goring urged Ribbentrop to tell a "legal lie" to
the British Foreign Office about the Anschluss, and in so doing only
marshaled him the way he was going. Goring gave his word of honor to the
Czechs and proceeded to break it. Even Speer proposed to deceive the French
into revealing the specially trained among their prisoners. Nor is the lie
direct the only means of falsehood. They all speak with a Nazi double talk
with which to deceive the unwary. In the Nazi dictionary of sardonic
euphemisms, "final solution" of the Jewish problem was a phrase which meant
extermination; "special treatment" of prisoners of war meant killing;
"protective custody" meant concentration camp; "duty labor" meant slave
labor; and an order to "take a firm attitude" or "take positive measures"
meant to act with unrestrained savagery.
Before we accept their word at what seems to be its face, we must always
look for hidden meanings. Goring assured us, on his oath, that the Reich
Defense Council never met "as such." When we produced the stenographic
minutes of a meeting at which he presided and did most of the talking, he
reminded us of the "as such" and explained this was not a meeting of the
Council "as such" because other persons were present. Goring denies
"threatening" Czechoslovakia; he only told President Hacha that he would
"hate to bomb the beautiful city of Prague."
Besides outright false statements and double talk, there are also other
circumventions of truth in the nature of fantastic explanations and absurd
professions. Streicher has solemnly maintained that his only thought with
respect to the Jews was to resettle them on the island of Madagascar. His
reason for destroying synagogues he blandly said was only because they were
architecturally offensive. Rosenberg was stated by his counsel to have
always had in mind a "chivalrous solution" to the Jewish problem. When it
was necessary to remove Schuschnigg after the Anschluss, Ribbentrop would
have had us believe that the Austrian Chancellor was resting at a "villa."
It was left to cross-examination to reveal that the "villa" was Buchenwald
concentration camp. The record is full of other examples of dissimulations
and evasions. Even Schacht showed that he, too, had adopted the Nazi
attitude that truth is any story which succeeds. . . .
This was the philosophy of the National Socialists. When for years they have
deceived the world, and masked falsehood with plausibilities, can anyone be
surprised that they continue their habits of a lifetime in this dock?
Credibility is one of the main issues of this trial. Only those who have
failed to learn the bitter lessons of the last decade can doubt that men who
have always played on the unsuspecting credulity of generous opponents would
not hesitate to do the same now.
It is against such a background that these defendants now ask this tribunal
to say that they are not guilty of planning, executing, or conspiring to
commit this long list of crimes and wrongs. They stand before the record of
this trial as bloodstained Gloucester stood by the body of his slain king.
He begged of the widow, as they beg of you: "Say I slew them not." And the
Queen replied, "Then say they were not slain. But dead they are..." If you
were to say of these men that they are not guilty, it would be as true to
say that there has been no war, there are no slain, there has been no crime

Il reale scopo del Processo di Norimberga fu smascherato dal giudice
americano Wenersturm, Presidente di uno dei Tribunali di Norimberga che
per il disgusto si dimise.
Inoltre, secondo un avvocato americano‚ Earl Carrol‚ il 60% del personale
al servizio dell'accusatore era composto da ebrei tedeschi, e questo la
dice lunga sull'imparzialità del giudizio.
L'articolo 19 dello statuto del tribunale militare internazionale, sorto
dall'accordo di Londra (firmato l'8 Agosto 1945), e base del processo di
Norimberga, prevedeva che: "Il tribunale non sarà tenuto alle regole
tecniche relative all'amministrazione delle prove [...]". Ciò significa,
in maniera molto chiara, che tale tribunale poteva ammettere qualsiasi
"documento" giudicasse aver valore di prova, senza assicurarsi
dell'autenticità dello stesso; forgiare a volontà corpi di reato e
rigettare le prove a discarico, tutto ciò senza alcuna motivazione.
Inoltre l'articolo 21 dello statuto stabiliva che "Il tribunale non
esigerà che sia presentata prova di fatti di pubblica notorietà, ma li
darà per acquisiti [...]".
Dato che era lo stesso tribunale a decidere cosa fosse "un fatto di
pubblica notorietà", ne risulta che la colpevolezza degli accusati era
stabilita per principio, in quanto l'Olocausto, secondo il suddetto
tribunale era "un fatto di pubblica notorietà".
Solo chi ha potuto leggere i documenti di Norimberga può rendersi conto
del carattere strampalato delle accuse fatte: basterà qui darne un esempio
per tutte. Secondo le accuse sovietiche, i tedeschi hanno sterminato nel
campo di concentramento di Sachsenhausen non meno di 840.000 prigionieri
di guerra russi procedendo in questa maniera: "Nel piccolo locale c'era
un'apertura di circa 50 cm. I prigionieri di guerra si dovevano mettere
con la testa all'altezza del buco ed un tiratore che si trovava dietro gli
sparava. Ma questo dispositivo era in pratica insufficiente, poiché,
spesso, il tiratore non colpiva il prigioniero. In capo a otto giorni si
creò un nuovo dispositivo. Il prigioniero era piazzato, come prima, presso
la parete; poi si faceva scendere lentamente una piastra di ferro sulla
sua testa. Il prigioniero di guerra aveva l'impressione che si volesse
misurare la sua altezza. C'era nella piastra di ferro un chiodo e
affondava nella nuca del prigioniero. Questi crollava morto sul pavimento.
La piastra di ferro era azionata per mezzo di una leva a pedale che si
trovava in un angolo di questo locale" (Processo dei grandi criminali di
guerra davanti al tribunale militare internazionale; Norimberga, 14
Novembre 1945-1 Ottobre 1946, volume VII, pagine 416-417).
Secondo l'accusa, i cadaveri di questi 840.000 prigionieri di guerra
sarebbero poi stati carbonizzati in quattro crematori mobili montati sul
rimorchio di un camion. Ora, né l'ammazzatoio a pedale, né i crematori
mobili in grado di incenerire 210.000 cadaveri in tempo record, né gli
innumerevoli altri prodigi tecnici descritti a Norimberga sono stati
presentati al tribunale come corpo del reato. L'assenza del cosiddetto
"corpus delicti" è stata controbilanciata dalle dichiarazioni scritte di
testimoni che deponevano sotto giuramento.


Non ho mai usato la funzione di messaggio di blocco degli utenti. Ma confido
che non ci metterò molto ad imparare. Non ho mai escluso alcuno dall'elenco
dei messaggi. Ma per un neonazista farò un'eccezione. Addio.

ok, torna nella fossa che ci hanno scavato 60 anni fa...


 furono 340 su un totale di 640 effettivi.
Uhm. E' interessante notare che il sito WSSOB, peraltro non esattamente un
luogo gradevole, parla di 340 "perdite". Le quali, come voi mi insegnate,
includono anche i feriti e i dispersi. Questi ultimi ovviamente includono
anche i disertori.
Comunque grazie per la segnalazione. ora capisco perchè alcune fonti
sospette parlano di presenza della divisione, mentre altre più attendibili
parlano di uno o forse due battaglioni "indipendenti". In realtà il
battaglione (o forse i 2 battaglioni) appartenevano formalmente alla
divisione, quindi tecnicamente non erano indipendenti; ma erano distaccati,
e parlare di presenza della divisione quando in realtà c'era un battaglione
o forse due è effettivamente un'esagerazione.
Saluti,
Michele


Baccio