Newsgroup: it.media.tv
Titolo: quanto sono coglioni

i nostri governanti:
La Stampa
Italia-Usa, scontro tra i poli
La Stampa - 1 ora fa
È scontro tra maggioranza e opposizione dopo il disappunto manifestato da
fonti anonime del Dipartimento Usa in
merito alla trattativa del governo italiano che ha portato alla liberazione
del giornalista Daniele Mastrogiacomo.
il disappunto di una fonte anonima,
dall'usa e qui scoppia il putiferio ,
5 anni in castigo dietro la lavagna !
TUTTI !
felice_pago
--------------------------------
Inviato via 
http://arianna.libero.it/usenet/

 Italia-Usa, scontro tra i poli
Il quotidiano americano si interroga in una corrispondenza da Roma
sul ruolo preciso svolto da Washington nello scambio di prigionieri
Afghanistan, ipotesi del New York Times
"Italia non ha agito da sola per Mastrogiacomo"
http://www.repubblica.it/2007/03/sezioni/esteri/afghanistan-20/ny-times/ny-times.html
-- 
abarossa
www.cappittomihai.com
Far bene, fa bene ;-) 

 
http://www.repubblica.it/2007/03/sezioni/esteri/afghanistan-20/ny-times/ny-times.html
sono le solite stronzate di repubblica.
in quell'articolo l'unica cosa di rilevante che si dice è che gli 
americani non hanno voluto intervenire per bloccare lo scambio di 
prigionieri, negoziato dal governo afghano (che deteneva i prigionieri) 
e quello italiano, e che il governo afghano ha acconsentito alla misura 
eccezionale per mantenere i buoni rapporti... da qui a indorare la 
pillola come fa repubblica quasi a fare intendere che gli americani 
hanno "agito insieme" agli italiani è solo una distorsione di ciò che 
viene detto in quell'articolo, fatta in contrapposizione alle pesanti 
critiche ricevute. evidentemente repubblica si sente in colpa...
comunque l'articolo del NYT è qui:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/22/world/europe/22italy.html?_r=1
&oref=slogin
Italy Swapped 5 Jailed Taliban for a Hostage 
By IAN FISHER
Published: March 22, 2007
ROME, March 21 —An Italian journalist who was held hostage for 15 days 
by the Taliban in lawless southern Afghanistan was ransomed for five 
Taliban prisoners, the Italian government and Afghan officials confirmed 
Wednesday.
Daniele Mastrogiacomo, a reporter for the Italian daily La Repubblica, 
arriving Tuesday at a Rome airport. He had been held by Taliban forces 
in Afghanistan for 15 days, and was freed in a prisoner exchange. 
It appears to be the first time prisoners have been openly exchanged for 
a hostage in the wars that the United States and its allies are fighting 
there and in Iraq, and the move drew immediate criticism from Washington 
and London, and from other European capitals.
“We don’t negotiate with terrorists, and we don’t advise others to do so 
either,” said the State Department spokesman, Sean McCormack. 
A senior Bush administration official said the prisoners exchanged had 
been held by the Afghan government, not by NATO, which is directing the 
allied military in Afghanistan. The official said he did not believe 
that NATO officials in Afghanistan had been formally alerted before the 
exchange.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice met with the Italian foreign 
minister, Massimo D’Alema, in Washington on Monday, the day the hostage, 
Daniele Mastrogiacomo, 52, of the leftist newspaper La Repubblica, was 
released. It was not clear whether they discussed an exchange.
Though it may have saved a life, the ransom has set off a worried debate 
in Italy and in other countries with soldiers, reporters and aid workers 
in danger zones. 
The exchange sent “the wrong signal to prospective hostage takers,” a 
spokeswoman for the British Foreign Office told Reuters. 
On a visit to Kabul on Wednesday, the Dutch foreign minister, Maxime 
Verhagen, told reporters: “When we create a situation where you can buy 
the freedom of Taliban fighters when you catch a journalist, then in the 
short term there will be no journalists anymore.” 
The concern was underscored on Tuesday just after the release of one of 
the prisoners, Ustad Yasir, who was identified as a Taliban spokesman. 
He said he would return immediately to war, and was “grabbing two rifles 
to begin jihad again to hunt down invaders and fight nonbelievers,” 
according to a statement attributed to him on the Internet.
The government of Romano Prodi, the Italian prime minister, said the 
central issue surrounding the kidnapping of Mr. Mastrogiacomo was not 
complicated.
“We think that the life of a person is very precious,” said Mr. Prodi’s 
spokesman, Silvio Sircana, who is also a friend of Mr. Mastrogiacomo’s. 
“So if there is a chance to save a life, we must do all we can do. And 
this was our very simple line, and not anything more.”
Mr. Mastrogiacomo was abducted as he was driving with an interpreter and 
a driver to an interview with a Taliban commander near Lashkhar Gah, in 
southern Afghanistan, he wrote in La Repubblica on Tuesday, the day he 
returned to Rome. 
Dragged from place to place, nearly always in chains, he wrote, he was 
forced to watch a Taliban soldier decapitate his driver, then wipe the 
blade clean on the headless body. 
“I imagine myself with my neck sliced, the blood splashed from all the 
arteries drained into the sand, the body committed to the river’s 
course,” he wrote.
On Monday, he continued, a Taliban commander came into the mud hut where 
he and the interpreter were being held and proclaimed, “You are free, 
fly away!” The fate of the interpreter is still unknown.
Italy’s domestic politics seemed to play a role in the decision, in a 
nation where weak domestic support for foreign involvement had prompted 
earlier allegations of payments for hostages.
It was widely reported that the former Italian prime minister, Silvio 
Berlusconi, paid cash for the freedom of at least three hostages in Iraq 
in 2004 and 2005. The issues then were at once humanitarian and 
political: Italians broadly opposed Mr. Berlusconi’s decision to send 
troops to Iraq, and critics said any deaths there could further erode 
support for him as national elections neared. Italy has since withdrawn 
its troops from Iraq.
The kidnapping of Mr. Mastrogiacomo occurred at a similarly delicate 
time for Mr. Prodi’s already fragile government, which fell briefly last 
month, partly because of a lack of support inside his coalition for the 
presence of nearly 2,000 Italian troops in Afghanistan. 
Later this month, Mr. Prodi faces a crucial vote on financing for the 
mission there, a vote that might have been more difficult if Mr. 
Mastrogiacomo had not been freed.
Italy did not — and could not — act alone in the prisoner exchange, and 
attention was focused on both Afghanistan and the United States, which 
exerts broad control inside the country. 
A spokesman for the Afghan president, Hamid Karzai, told reporters in 
Kabul that the release was an “exceptional measure taken because we 
value our relations and friendship with Italy.” 
Many experts wondered at the precise role of the United States, which 
has strained relations with Italy on several fronts, including the 
indictment of 26 Americans, all but one of them believed to be C.I.A. 
operatives, in the kidnapping in Italy in 2003 of a radical Egyptian 
cleric.
Diplomatically, the United States could not bar the exchanges, American 
officials said, given that the Taliban prisoners were being held by the 
Afghan government and not by the American military or NATO. United 
States officials have also been mindful of the rising tide in Italian 
public opinion against the presence of Italian troops in Afghanistan.
Edward Luttwak, a senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and 
International Studies in Washington, speculated that American officials 
made the political calculation that for the sake of good relations with 
Italy, it was better not to stop the transfer. 
“They certainly didn’t lean on the Afghans” to trade the prisoners, Mr. 
Luttwak said. “But they didn’t interpose themselves. They let them have 
it.”
A former Italian hostage, Giuliana Sgrena, kidnapped in Baghdad in 2005, 
said she believed that the Italian government was obligated to do all it 
could to save a hostage’s life. She argued that paying ransom for 
reporters was a far smaller issue than the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. 
“If there is no war, there will be no hostages,” Ms. Sgrena, also a 
journalist, said in a telephone interview from New York, where she is 
promoting a book about her experience. 
(Her own kidnapping is another source of tension between the United 
States and Italy: an American soldier shot at her car at a roadblock in 
Baghdad shortly after her release, killing a top Italian intelligence 
official.)
She added that, whatever the dangers, it was important for reporters and 
aid workers to go to places like Iraq or Afghanistan to provide 
information independent of the governments or groups waging wars there. 
“It’s a problem of democracy,” she said. “If we say we want democracy, 
democracy is based on information.”
Peter Kiefer contributed reporting from Rome, and Helene Cooper from 
Washington.

del giornalista Daniele Mastrogiacomo.
Trovare le 7 piccole differenze:
MATTEOLI: FELICI PER LUI E FAMIGLIA - Il presidente dei senatori di
An, Altero Matteoli: «È finito un incubo. Siamo felici della
liberazione del giornalista Daniele Mastrogiacomo. Lo siamo non solo
per lui, ma anche per la sua famiglia e per il giornale La Repubblica
che hanno vissuto giorni drammatici. Un grazie sincero va a quanti si
sono prodigati con impegno per salvare il nostro connazionale».
CASINI: GOVERNO HA OPERATO BENE- Il leader dell'Udc, Pier Ferdinando
Casini: «Siamo felici per la liberazione di Daniele Mastrogiacomo...
Il governo ha operato bene e con la piena collaborazione
dell'opposizione, che ha sempre mantenuto un atteggiamento di grande
responsabilità e dignità istituzionale, segno che di fronte agli
appuntamenti decisivi l'Italia sa rispondere unita».
CESA: FINALMENTE UNA BUONA NOTIZIA - Il segretario dell'Udc Lorenzo
Cesa: «In un quadro internazionale incerto e preoccupante finalmente
una buona notizia che consente un barlume di speranza per il futuro. I
complimenti più sinceri vanno a chi ha coordinato le operazioni che
hanno portato alla liberazione dimostrando che la coesione e il
rispetto delle professionalità portano sempre buoni frutti».
SCAJOLA: VITTORIA DEGLI ITALIANI - «La liberazione di Daniele
Mastrogiacomo è una vittoria di tutti gli italiani, che non lo hanno
mai lasciato solo». Lo afferma il presidente del Comitato di controllo
sui servizi segreti, Claudio Scajola.
e comunque:
http://www.repubblica.it/2007/03/sezioni/esteri/afghanistan-20/ny-times/ny-times.html
Carlo

 5 anni in castigo dietro la lavagna !
Sai che novità. Attaccarsi alle scemenze è una prerogativa per 
qualcuno.
-- 
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6907/immaginecy7.png

it.”
Non mi pare che la Repubblica abbia distorto l'articolo del NYT.
Carlo

 
A me veniva un "pensiero laterale" non sollecitato, ma non so il perchč; mi
veniva in mente la vicenda del Kursk, boh.
-- 
Salutoni
E. Delacroix


     Credo che non ti abbiano recapitato le ultime veline di
aggiornamento!  ciao.

 Non mi pare che la Repubblica abbia distorto l'articolo del NYT.
Il contenuto magari è tradotto decentemente (anche se riporta con 
malafede la parte relativa a berlusconi), ma il titolo e soprattutto 
l'occhiello sono messi proprio ad hoc per sottintendere una cosa che il 
nyt non scrive:
Il quotidiano americano si interroga in una corrispondenza da Roma
sul ruolo preciso svolto da Washington nello scambio di prigionieri
Afghanistan, ipotesi del New York Times
"Italia non ha agito da sola per Mastrogiacomo"
Viene omesso completamente il ruolo del governo afghano, che invece 
trova ampio risalto nell'articolo, così da fare credere al lettore (e 
così è avvenuto) che per il NYT c'è stato un ruolo attivo degli usa 
nella trattativa coi talebani. Poi più sotto quando ormai il lettore si 
è fatto questa idea si precisa che per il NYT il ruolo di Washington è 
stato non intervenire. Si dà anche una patina di "mistero" alla cosa 
definendola retroscena, mentre le fonti del NYT sono solo degli 
"esperti" (compreso Luttwack ma allora il retroscena verrebbe da casa 
nostra? e infatti Repubblica omette di citarlo...)
Quanto alla traduzione sul pezzo riferito a Berlusconi, il NYT scrive:
"It was widely reported that the former Italian prime minister, Silvio 
Berlusconi, paid cash for the freedom of at least three hostages in Iraq 
in 2004 and 2005" e Rep. mette come suo incipit "Il quotidiano americano 
ricorda infatti come sia ampiamente noto che", e poi virgoletta la 
traduzione corretta. Ma per il NYT la cosa non è "ampiamente nota", ma 
semmai "largamente vociferata", due cose ben diverse.