Newsgroup: it.sport.americani
Titolo: MLB - Chi e' il vincente ?

Gara 4 delle World Series dell' anno scorso.
Chi e' che mi spiega perche' il vincente e' Nelson che ha lanciato il sesto inning ?
Grazie e ciao
Oliviero
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
October 25, 2000 at Shea Stadium (New York Mets)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 R H E
- - - - - - - - - - - -
New York Yankees 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 8 0
New York Mets 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 6 1
PITCHERS: NYY - Neagle, Cone (5), Nelson (6), Stanton (7), Rivera (8)
NYM - Bj Jones, Rusch (6), Franco (8), Benitez (9)
WP - Nelson
LP - Bj Jones
SAVE - Rivera
HOME RUNS: NYY - Jeter
NYM - Piazza
ATTENDANCE: 55,290
-- 
Posted from 146.133.1.30 by way of 
relay4.inwind.it
 [212.141.53.75] 
via Mailgate.ORG Server - 
http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Se il tabellino è quello che hai riportato, secondo me la W doveva andare a
Cone.
Boh, chiedo lumi anch'io...

Oliviero
Ecco perchč:
--------------------------------------------------
    Ny Yankees     - 111 000 000  --  3
    Ny Mets        - 002 000 000  --  2
--------------------------------------------------
NY YANKEES                   ip       h   r  er  bb  so  hr    era
Neagle                        4 2/3   4   2   2   2   3   1   3.86
Cone                            1/3   0   0   0   0   0   0   0.00
Nelson (W, 1-0)               1 1/3   1   0   0   1   1   0  10.12
Stanton (H, 1)                  2/3   0   0   0   0   2   0   0.00
Rivera (S, 1)                 2       1   0   0   0   2   0   3.60
Il partente deve portare a termine i 5 inning perchč gli venga accreditata
la vittoria. Quando ciň non avviene, nonostante lasci la partita con la sua
squadra in vantaggio, se questo vantaggio non viene piů rimontato, la
vittoria va al rilievo che il classifcatore ufficiale giudica il piů
efficace (nel nostro caso, quindi, Nelson).
Ciao!!

 efficace (nel nostro caso, quindi, Nelson).
Questa del classificatore che assegna la vittoria non la sapevo, ho sempre
pensato che la vittoria andasse al pitcher che finisce il 5 inning...
Beh, allora diciamo che oltre a mettere a posto la storia del DH dovranno
chiarire anche questa situazione! Mi suona un po' strano che il
classificatore possa assegnare la W a chi vuole lui, dovrebbe esserci una
regola precisa che in questi casi assegni la vittoria, senza discrezionalità
alcuna da parte del classificatore.

Ti allego l'articolo del regolamento ufficiale della MLB, evidenziando
con *--> il "comma" in questione (comma c)
Ciao
WINNING AND LOSING PITCHER
10.19
(a) Credit the starting pitcher with a game won only if he has pitched at
least five complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is
replaced but remains in the lead the remainder of the game. (b) The "must
pitch five complete innings" rule in respect to the starting pitcher shall
be in effect for all games of six or more innings. In a five inning game,
credit the starting pitcher with a game won if he has pitched at least four
complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is replaced
*--> but remains in the lead the remainder of the game. (c) When the
starting
*--> pitcher cannot be credited with the victory because of the provisions
of
*--> 10.19 (a) or (b) and more than one relief pitcher is used, the victory
shall
*--> be awarded on the following basis: (1) When, during the tenure of the
*--> starting pitcher, the winning team assumes the lead and maintains it to
the
*--> finish of the game, credit the victory to the relief pitcher judged by
the
*--> scorer to have been the most effective; (2) Whenever the score is tied
the
game becomes a new contest insofar as the winning and losing pitcher is
concerned; (3) Once the opposing team assumes the lead all pitchers who have
pitched up to that point are excluded from being credited with the victory
except that if the pitcher against whose pitching the opposing team gained
the lead continues to pitch until his team regains the lead, which it holds
to the finish of the game, that pitcher shall be the winning pitcher;
(4) The winning relief pitcher shall be the one who is the pitcher of record
when his team assumes the lead and maintains it to the finish of the game.
EXCEPTION: Do not credit a victory to a relief pitcher who is ineffective in
a brief appearance, when a succeeding relief pitcher pitches effectively in
helping his team maintain the lead. In such cases, credit the succeeding
relief pitcher with the victory. (d) When a pitcher is removed for a
substitute batter or substitute runner, all runs scored by his team during
the inning in which he is removed shall be credited to his benefit in
determining the pitcher of record when his team assumes the lead. (e)
Regardless of how many innings the first pitcher has pitched, he shall be
charged with the loss of the game if he is replaced when his team is behind
in the score, or falls behind because of runs charged to him after he is
replaced, and his team thereafter fails either to tie the score or gain the
lead. (f) No pitcher shall be credited with pitching a shutout unless he
pitches the complete game, or unless he enters the game with none out before
the opposing team has scored in the first inning, puts out the side without
a run scoring and pitches all the rest of the game. When two or more
pitchers combine to pitch a shutout a notation to that effect should be
included in the league's official pitching records. (g) In some non
championship games (such as the Major League All Star Game) it is provided
in advance that each pitcher shall work a stated number of innings, usually
two or three. In such games, it is customary to credit the victory to the
pitcher of record, whether starter or reliever, when the winning team takes
a lead which it maintains to the end of the game, unless such pitcher is
knocked out after the winning team has a commanding lead, and the scorer
believes a subsequent pitcher is entitled to credit for the victory.
Madman <alberto....@ANTISPAMtin.it> wrote in message
OIPM6.7488$jp1.4...@news.infostrada.it...


 Ciao
Grazie Jim!
Comunque non mettevo in discussione il fatto che fosse giusto quello che
avevi detto, ma mi chiedevo piuttosto se la regola fosse giusta così o se
invece dovesse essere in qualche modo più precisa. (spero di non essere
stato frainteso)
Tu che ne pensi? Io darei la vittoria a chi finisce il 5 inning e comunque,
ripeto, toglierei qualsiasi possibilità di scelta discrezionale da parte del
classificatore.

Ma infatti la regola prevede che se il partente finisce il quinto inning in
vantaggio e la sua squadra non viene più rimontata, la vittoria gli venga
effettivamente accreditata. In effetti penso che sia giusto così, visto che
un partente più "corto" comporta (anche se lascia la partita in vantaggio)
un considerevole "consumo" del bullpen (che quindi, nella persona del più
efficiente, si vede riconosciuto il diritto alla vittoria).
Ciao
Madman <alberto....@ANTISPAMtin.it> wrote in message
7BQM6.7851$jp1.4...@news.infostrada.it...


classificatore.
In ogni caso, anche esclusa questa situazione, il classificatore ha
discrezionalita' su molte situazioni... basta pensare alla labile
differenza che passa a volte tra una valida e un errore...
Diego