An automotive exhaust pipe joint and seal arrangement for joining exhaust pipes (6, 8; 6, 120) in fixed gas sealed relation to each other comprising: first and second exhaust pipes (6, 8; 6, 120) each defining a longitudinal axis (10, 12) and having respective corresponding adjacent first and second ends, each pipe having an outer cylindrical surface (38, 58) and an end edge (34, 54); an annular first flange having juxtaposed inner and outer surfaces (42, 142; 40, 140) outwardly flared from the first end of the first pipe outer surface; an annular second flange extending radially outwardly from the second end of the second pipe outer surface, at least a portion of the second flange defining an outwardly flared outer surface; an annular fluid seal between and abutting the first flange inner surface (42, 142) at a first seal outer surface portion and the second flange at a second seal outer surface portion and abutting the second pipe outer cylindrical surface adjacent to the second flange in a third seal outer surface portion; and an annular band clamp (16; 110; 136; 184) attached to and abutting the first and second flanges (36, 56) at their respective outwardly flared outer surfaces for securing the first and second pipes in exhaust gas sealing relationship; the clamp having a clamp surface engaged with and corresponding to a respective different flange outer surface (40, 140) of the first and second flanges, the first flange outer surface (40, 140) engaged with a clamp surface and the first flange inner surface (42, 142) engaged with the seal first outer surface portion, characterized by each engagement being arranged to abut substantially only at a corresponding tangential point forming a pair of tangential points (P1, P2; P5, P2; P6, P7; P8, P9; P12, P13), the pair of tangential points defining a plane (52, 52 3, 52 4, 52 5, 52 7) substantially normal to the engaged first flange surfaces and engaged seal first outer surface portion at their points of tangency. first and second exhaust pipes (6, 8; 6, 120) each defining a longitudinal axis (10, 12) and having respective corresponding adjacent first and second ends, each pipe having an outer cylindrical surface (38, 58) and an end edge (34, 54); an annular first flange having juxtaposed inner and outer surfaces (42, 142; 40, 140) outwardly flared from the first end of the first pipe outer surface; an annular second flange extending radially outwardly from the second end of the second pipe outer surface, at least a portion of the second flange defining an outwardly flared outer surface; an annular fluid seal between and abutting the first flange inner surface (42, 142) at a first seal outer surface portion and the second flange at a second seal outer surface portion and abutting the second pipe outer cylindrical surface adjacent to the second flange in a third seal outer surface portion; and an annular band clamp (16; 110; 136; 184) attached to and abutting the first and second flanges (36, 56) at their respective outwardly flared outer surfaces for securing the first and second pipes in exhaust gas sealing relationship; the clamp having a clamp surface engaged with and corresponding to a respective different flange outer surface (40, 140) of the first and second flanges, the first flange outer surface (40, 140) engaged with a clamp surface and the first flange inner surface (42, 142) engaged with the seal first outer surface portion, characterized by each engagement being arranged to abut substantially only at a corresponding tangential point forming a pair of tangential points (P1, P2; P5, P2; P6, P7; P8, P9; P12, P13), the pair of tangential points defining a plane (52, 52 3, 52 4, 52 5, 52 7) substantially normal to the engaged first flange surfaces and engaged seal first outer surface portion at their points of tangency.