I joined Mark and Michael at a Coco’s restaurant near their offices. Michael was a pudgy man who seemed very pleased with himself, to the point of being a bit cocky. The two found it entertaining to draw me into telling stories about my experiences. I made it clear how successful I had been at social engineering, which they also used, though they called it "gagging." They were impressed that I knew as much as I did about computers and especially about the phone company. They were even more impressed by my vast experience in tracking down people’s addresses, phone numbers, and so on. Finding people seemed to be an important part of their business, a process they referred to as a "locate."