Date: 2005-06-15
Speaker: DANIEL E. LUNGREN (republican)
Chamber: H
State: Cali

fornia. Mr. Chairman. let us understand the context in which we are disciassing this. This is post9/11. This is after we have lost 3.000 people. This is after we understood that we had set up inappropriate barriers so that we could look at intelligence information. so that it could give us a forewarning of what might be out there. There are those who have gotten up here and said. look. there are other techniques that can be used. a grand jury subpoena. a search warrant. Yes. but that requires the actuality of some proof of a crime at the time. That is not what we are talking about here. What we are talking about here is the distinction between criminal investigations. in which law enforcement uses search warrants and grand jury subpoenas. and foreign intelligence investigations. in which law enforcement uses section 215 under the Foreign Int6lligence Surveillance Act to request business records. This amendment would surely restrict intelligence investigations designed to protect against international terrorism and clandestine intelligence activities. These activities do not always appear beforehand to be a crime. For instance. it was not a crime for the members of al Qaeda to learn to- fly airplanes in the U.S. However. if a member of al Qaeda goes into the library and checks out books on the tallest buildings in New York and a book on how to fly a plane. it could be relevant to an international terrorism case under FISA before you have proof of a crime. That is what we are talking about here. You have to go before the FISA court. You have to show that it is related to international terrorism. You just cannot go willynilly in and ask for any sort of document that you want. Also. the Justice Department has looked at this amendment and believes that. in fact. despite the gentlemans efforts to try and eliminate coverage of computers. they believe that the Sanders amendment would cover signin sheets. including those using signin sheets to use the computer. so that it would not allow this investigative tool to be utilized in intelligence investigations. Let us understand what we are talking about: intelligence investigations for international espionage. We are not talking about regular crimes. That is why there is a distinction. You are going to prohibit us from utilizing this tool. and there is no example. there is no evidence of abuse. We have had 12 hearings on this. We have looked at it. In fact. as the law requires right now. the Department has to report- to us on a regular basis on these sorts of things. We examine these things. I just ask why. you would resolve doubt in favor of compromising our ability to go into intelligence that could lead to the uncovering of a terrorist plot. We do not have all the lead time when we are talking about these things. That is why there is a distinction in the law carefully built in. That is why we have a separate FISA court. That is why we have judges who have expertise on this. That is why we require the oversight by the Committee on the Judiciary. We have built in these particular protections. I would just say. rather than present this type of response to legitimate concerns people have about privacy. examine the law as it currently exists. examine the purpose. and understand the difference between a criminal investigation and an intelligence investigation. and why we have this different procedure. Yes. it is unique. because we have unique circumstances presented to us. We have learned from our errors in the past where we did not have unique circumstances that allowed us to.do these sorts of things. That is all we have done here. We are in a new world. We are trying to deal with that world in an effective way without compromising our privacy. And when on the record there is absolutely no evidence. not one modicum of evidence that there has been an abuse by the Justice Department. why we would take this action now. I just do not understand. So I would ask Members of this body to please defeat this amendment.