Bespik:Lalgorit Geredik

message: Vöds, dö kels mutobs spikön:
>Gudikünam - "Optimisation" ("act of besting").
>Sukagorim (suk-a-gorim) - "Search algorithm".
>Tuvedot - "A solution". At binon vöd, kela lönedi dotob...
>Dils flitömas - "Aeroplane parts"
>Boeds leäktronik - "Electronic circuits/circuit boards"
>Kontrol mäikamenas - "Robot control"
>Numivotafomam - "Transformation into numbers". Linglänapüke, sagoy "Representation", ab binos votafomam ini nums.
>Kromasom - "Chromosome", vöd nulik. Gudik-li?
>Sürfat follienik - vilob sagön "Rectangular surface".
>Sukaspad - "Search space"
>Lönedasekät (löned-a-sekät) - "Fitness function". Sagon oye lönedi tuvedota.
>Beopenets - "(good) points/marks".
Num kion vödas! Nolob, das osagol mödi dö vöds ä yeged at :-)
Robert 20:30, 6 novul 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Küpedot balid: gorim tikodükon dö gor-im (bi ya dabinon poyümot: -im). Ba "gorit" binonöv gudikum? --Smeira 10:34, 7 novul 2007 (UTC)
Vöd "gor" dabinon-li? If no, cedob, das "gorim" binon lönedik. Vöds at finons ko -im, e no dabinos säkäd: lölim, mivim, ravanim, slipatim, sorbabim.
Robert 19:33, 7 novul 2007 (UTC)

text: No, vöd: „gor“ no dabinon; e vöds fa ol pemäniotöls dabinons (ab vöd: „lölim“ binon vöd: „löl“ + el „-im“!...). In püks valik dabinons vöds soik: jiniko pedefomöls, ab no veräto. Veratos, das püks kanons lifön to dabin vödas somik, ab... ab... no binosöv-li gudikün ad vitön osi, if kanobs?... Ah well, säkobsös Volapükanis votik in Volapükagrup. If pluamanum baicedon, das el „gorim“ binon lönedik, id ob obaicedob! (Vilol-li säkön tefü vöd at in Volapükagrup, u sötob-li säkön ob it?) --Smeira 21:40, 8 novul 2007 (UTC)

text: Yeged ola binon vemo nitedik! Vilob reidön oni gudiko, nog ün vig at; sosus olabob mobis openob onis isio. Danö! pro kevob ola!

text: Nu, demü vöds votik... (Cedü ob sötobs säkön Volapükanes votik in Volapükagrup ela Yahoo, kisi cedons tefü ons, no-li?)
* „gudikünam“: ba gudikum: „gudükünam“? (El „optimisation“ binon suemod loveädik (transitive), no-li? „To optmise something“? Tefü fom vöda at: el de Jong älabom vödi: „gudükumön“ = 'correct, improve', gud-ük-um-ön, kö äbinons el „-ük“ ed el „-um“; sekü atos, kredob, das leigo el „-ük“ ed el „-ün“ kanons pagebön kobo.
* „sukagorim“: gudik, if el „gorim“ pazepon.
* „tuvedot“: id obe vöd at no pliton vemo. Ab binon in vödabuk ela de Jong... „tuved: das Erraten, Enträtselung (= guessing, figuring out, solving (a puzzle)); tuvedot: Auflösung (= solution (of a puzzle)); tuvedön: erraten, enträtseln (= to guess correctly, to figure out, to decipher, to solve (a puzzle)).“
* „dils flitömas“ = 'parts of airplanes': OK, cedü ob.
* „boeds leäktronik“ = 'circuit boards': I think "boed" is more like a log, something wooden. Why not "platot leäktronik" (platot = something flat)?
* „kontrol mäikamenas“: Cedü ob, vöd: „kontrolön“ sinifon no 'to control', ab 'to verify, to check (if sth is as it should be)', bi tradutod onik binon vöd Deutänik: „kontrollieren“ labü sinif at. Mobob: „stir(am)“ pla el „kontrol“... Tefü „mäikamen“: vöd at no pliton obi; igo no suemob oni gudiko (mäik-a-men? kis binon-li „mäik“?). Neodol-li vödi: „robot“, u kanol-li gebön i vödi: „stir(am) itjäfidik“ („itjäfidik“ = automatic)? If neodol vödi: „robot“, ba: „cinamen“? Ed i: „stir(am) cinamenik“ u „stir(am) fa cinamen(s)“?
* „Numivotafomam“: hm, case ambiguity here. „Num-i“ suggests that "number" is the object of transform: not "transform into numbers", but "transform numbers (into something else)". Mögos, das kanoy gebön: „numovotafomam“. Atos no binon so vemo gudiko, bi „numo“ kanon sinifön: „ini nums, ad nums“, ab i: „me nums, yufü nums“... Ab bi dabinons vöds sümik in püks votik vola, ba kanoy zepön oni. Voto... kisi dunön-li? Ba gebön vödis tel: „votafomam ini nums“ u „votafomam ad nums“? 
* „Kromasom“: gudik. (Ab: kikodo „kromasom“-li pla „kromosom“?)
* „rectangle“: in Deutänapük: „Rechteck“; ed el de Jong labom in vödabuk okik: „Rechteck = stedagul“. Ba: "Sürfat stedagulik"?
* „sukaspad“: jinon gudik lü ob.
* „lönedasekät“: ekö! tradutod gudik. Vemo pliton obi.
* „beopenets“: ? no suemob... Ah! Ba ävilol-li penön: "benopenets"? Vöds: „point, mark“ labons sinifis mödik; lio vilol-li gebön onis? In vödabuk ela de Jong: „penet: Notiz, Anmerikung, Aufzeichnung“ (= (written) notes, remarks, quick written comments). Logob, das epenol: „Plü tuvedot binon gudik, plü num be(n)openetas pagivon one“. Ah! vilol gebön eli "points" as "points (score), fitness points". Ekö! säkäd nitedik... El de Jong labom: „Punkt: pün“, nen pläns tefü sinifs votik vöda at. Kanobs balugiko gebön oni: ...benopünas pagivon one (ü ba: ...lönedapünas pagivon one). Ab i tefü vöd at cedob, das sötobs begön cedis Volapükanas votik. Kisi cedol-li? --Smeira 22:54, 8 novul 2007 (UTC)
I'll post a message at the Yahoo Group asking about the brand new words. A majority of 2 should be enough to get them accepted!!
Regarding the ending of "Gorim", I understand your reservations, but given the large number of suffixes in the language, this attitude would prevent a very large number of words from being created. If there were only a handful of suffixes, I'd change it to "Gorit", but there are many, so I 
think "Gorim" should stay. And as you've said, we can let the other Vp-ans decide.

text: OK. No problem. Every language has words like these, so there's no big reason to worry. If they accept it, then Ralph will put it in the dictionary and then it becomes official!...
*"Gudükünam". Si, vöd at binon gudikum. Plidon obi, das hiel de Jong ädunom bosi, kel binon vemo sümik.
*"Tuvedot". Fikulik... Otikob dö os.
*"Platot leäktronik". Si, mob gudik.
*"Stir". Si, at bepenon gudikumo etosi, keli vilob sagön.
*"Cinamen". Gudik, ab sümon vödi linglänapükik "Chinamen"! :-)
*: ;-))... Atos äkoedon smilön obi levemo! (Ba: „Menacin“?...)
*"Numovotafomam". Sosus älogob krüti ola tefü vöd "numi-", ätikob: "numo-". Klu cedob, das at söton pagebön.
*"KromOsom". Ag! dobiko ätonatob...
*"Stedagul". In vödabuk ela Yahoo Group, vöd at leigon: "a right angle"! Kis binon-li verätik?
*: Hmmm... in vödabuk ela de Jong, dabinon te: "Rechteck: stedagul". In vödabuk Deutänapükik oba, "Rechteck = straight angle; rectangle" (ed in vödabuk vüresodik: http://www.dict.cc ... If betikoy atosi, logoy, das follien alik labü stedagul bal muton labön i stedagulis fol; kanon binön te el „rectangle“...). Esukob in vödems ela de Jong, ed etuvob samis te telis:
*::(1)...Ston di Rosette, äsä nu binon, labon fomi folliena stedagulik nenomik labü lunot meta bal,... (Hieroglifaston di Rosette in Dältad di Nile; Volapükagased pro Nedänapükans 1939, nüm:1, pads: 2-7).
*::(2)...E leyal e yad stedagulik in zänod pefulons susfuliko me pilgrimans... (Lif in Mekka; Volapükagased pro Nedänapükans, 1940, nüm: 6, pads:47-49)
replies: text: :Sams at jiniko jonons, das el „stedagulik“ sinifon noe „right-angle(d)“, abi „rectangular“, no-li? Ba kanol gebön eli „follien stedagulik“, äsä ädunom el de Jong. --Smeira 02:35, 10 novul 2007 (UTC)
*"Be(n)openet". I se vödabuk ela Yahoo Group. "Beno-" muton binön verätik, as esagol. Otikob dö os, do "benopenet" bo povälon.
Robert 15:51, 9 novul 2007 (UTC)
*:Ab reidob in vödabuk ela Yahoo Group, das "benopenet" e "mipenet" tefons eli „schoolwork“, i.e. el „penet“ pagebon, bi tefos bosi, keli tidan penon sui vobot julana. Pöton-li vöd at pö disein olik? --Smeira 02:35, 10 novul 2007 (UTC)
Danö pro petuvön setis at fa AdJ. Ogebob eti, keli emobol.
I've asked the Group about (some of) the new words. The best alternative I can think of for "robot" is "okstiracin", but this doesn't look good. I've seen that "robot" and "röbot" can't be coined, but what about "rubot"? (It's a shame that Schleyer didn't have the foresight to predict the emergence of robots and adjust the words "rob" and "röb" accordingly!)
[Afterthought: "rubot" actually means "ancient boat", so scrub that suggestion!]
Otikob dö "points/marks"...
Robert 11:49, 10 novul 2007 (UTC)
I shall be adding more in a day or two's time. Here are some comments/questions in advance:
*GA people call the candidate solutions "individuals", so I shall be referring to them as "balats" in the article. Is this the best word?
*I see you changed the early 'u' into a 'ü'. I thought the former meant "either/or", and the latter "whether/or" - could you explain why there should be a 'ü' there?
*: Let's see: "u" = 'or' alternative, either/or/or both (Binom tidan, u tedan... no sevob fümiko); "ü" = 'or' as in 'another way of saying the same', like 'also known as': binom John ü Johnny. ("John" and "Johnny" are alternative forms of the same word, or are two words that mean the same / refer to the same person). So, if GG and GA mean the same (if you could say 'also known as' instead of 'or'), then "ü" is OK; if they don't, then it isn't. --Smeira 20:22, 14 novul 2007 (UTC)

text: : Sorry for dropping in b*ut it was me who changed that 'u' into 'ü' :(. Sorry for causing some confusion. Malafaya 20:28, 14 novul 2007 (UTC)
*Points: how about "pünäts"?
*How can I say: "Each new population is formed one individual at a time" ?
Spelob, das tuvol atosi nitediku, o Kadäman Sérgio :-)
Robert 16:30, 13 novul 2007 (UTC)

text: Neat-o, ain't it? I should have some cards printed with "Kadäman" on them...
Okay. Thanks nonetheless, Malafaya (and Sérgio). I had the wrong idea about 'ü', and am pleased to know its proper (and nice) meaning.
Robert 21:53, 14 novul 2007 (UTC)

message: OK, I had to stop answering in the middle and could come back only now... To make this easier to read I start a new section. (The meaning of 'ü' vs. 'u' is comparable, by the way, with Latin 'sive' vs. 'seu' -- from which Schleyer took the idea...)
* On "pünäts": (= "points" in a score, a video game, a fitness-measuring algorithm, etc.) hm, looks OK. I think that's the kind of thing Arie de Jong would have done... Any reason to prefer -ät here rather than -äd or -et or -ed?. (Not that any is necessary, judging by the somewhat arbitrary use of these suffixes.). 
* Each new population is formed one individual at a time: A good question, I think I'll ask that in the Volapukagrup. If this is about real people, maybe something like "pösodef nulik alik pafomon ai alna me pösod bal"; but "individual" and "population" mean something else here, right? Maybe "Tuvedotem" e "tuvedot" instead of "pösodef" e "pösod"? --Smeira 11:02, 15 novul 2007 (UTC)
I chose -äd for "pünät" because I've seen it described as being the "abstraction" suffix, and these points are an abstract thing. Re the other point, yes, ask the group.Robert 19:12, 15 novul 2007 (UTC)'
replies: text: :OK, will do. Did you mean to choose -ät (pünät) or -äd (pünäd)? Both look OK to me. --Smeira 10:07, 16 novul 2007 (UTC)
Ek kanon-li genemön padi: "Lalgorit Geredik"? Danö!Robert 19:21, 15 novul 2007 (UTC)
I've called crossover "gereditökam" (gene-exchange). The joining -i- shows that genes are the object of the exchange. I'm yet to think of a good term for mutation. Also, an eaxmple in Ralph's dictionary supports my use of "balat bal pos votik"Robert 18:37, 18 novul 2007 (UTC)
Eplaädob vödi "(el) mutation" pro vödi "luvotükam". Robert 14:39, 2008 yulul 19id (UTC)
thread_title:  Further comments